200USD on a broken TDS3034B, is it worth? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 02:59:57 pm
content: Hello Mates,i've been offered a TDS3034B, scope turns on, blank screen, no further testing for 200USDScope comes a with current probe, I dunno model (neither the seller) but, lets focus on the scope.Its a nice 20+ y/o scope, is it worth? I do not like the lack of memory, only 10K points but, mehhhShould I bother fixing it? I did not find much information on this blank screen problem, although seems a bit commonShould I just save the money for my SDS2000x+?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tds3012b-blank-screen/greetings

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 03:42:41 pm
content: if it was working and you couldn't afford anything else, maybe. As is, if it's cutting your budget for a modern siglent/rigol then absolutely NOT!! Just don't.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 03:53:17 pm
content: According to the sales info, there's an optional "TDS3GV Communications Module"with a VGA output. If it has this option, maybe the seller could connect a screen?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 04:50:13 pm
content: I'd ask about the current probe--that could be more valuable than the scope. And the scope isn't necessarily one to sneer at. Does it have the battery?Does blank screen mean dark, no backlight or lit up with no information appearing? If the latter, it may not be an easy fix.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 04:51:59 pm
content: The current probe maybe worth a pretty penny so yes, it is a good deal. A good indication the scope still works is when it responds to button presses (LEDs on the front panel change).

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 08:42:28 pm
content: OP is from Brazil, average salary is like 450usd, would you guys think this is a good deal if you were paying 1300€ or 25000NOK ??If the probe is good or if it had the vga module it would be ok, but if it doesn't it's a big hit.He needs more info or look at it in person. Hopefully he's not importing it, it would pay even more in taxes!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 09:15:34 pm
content: The cost of things vs salaries is one thing, but the real issue is the cost of new things after the exorbitant taxes applied. That scope is worthmorein Brazil, not less.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 10:45:02 pm
content: I may ask him to make a video of the unit turning on, if the leds are blinking its a good sign.Thats the probe, can't ID it, anyone?

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 10:47:54 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 27, 2021, 09:15:34 pmIt surely worths more, but the price of TM equipment here is nonsense. People asks what they think are worth, not what others are willing to pay.Actually, sometimes you can gent keysights locally cheaper here than importing itself.The average importing taxes are between 60 and 70%, after that comes revenue and sales taxes

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 10:52:17 pm
content: Looks like a well-worn Tek P6021 or P6022.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 10:53:06 pm
content: Quote from: YetAnotherTechie on May 27, 2021, 08:42:28 pmThat's complicated to put in a money perspective. Things here are expensive, but not only because of taxation, people are willing to pay for expensive things because there is a status with it, its a poor culture problem. That's why we've the most expensive locally made cars.The exchange rates is a bad way of putting it. In 2010 the salary was 310USD (510BRL, the USD was 1.66BRL), now is the same 210USD (the salary is 1100BRL but the USD is 5.24BRL), the salary doubled in the value in 10 years but the USD tripled...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 10:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 27, 2021, 10:52:17 pmMost likely a 60 MHz P6021 as the 100 MHz 6022 is somewhat smaller but of the same design. Bashed about like that one $200-$400 max value.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 27, 2021, 10:59:39 pmAnd AFAIK AC only so not very interesting.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:04:09 pm
content: $200 is a steal. Assuming it is physically intact and not completely destroyed I'd give you $250 for it sight unseen if you were in the same country as me and I'd consider that a bargain. I don't think I've seen a TDS30x4B go for much less than $800 even non-working, these are very popular instruments. Any B model can be easily hacked to be a 600MHz TDS306xB.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:07:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 27, 2021, 11:01:50 pmCertainly they are both AC current probes but very useful nonetheless.I've got both versions (6021 & 6022) and although their design is decades old there are few new probes reasonably priced that can match them.They still make them new but $3k+.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:09:45 pm
content: You can make really nice AC current probes from a small current transformer which easely achieve 30MHz bandwidth for a few dollars worth of materials. A DC probe with similar performance is an entirely different story.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:11:13 pm
content: The difficult part is making one with a split core that opens up so you don't have to break the circuit to insert it. That's primarily what makes a current probe desirable.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2021, 11:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 27, 2021, 11:11:13 pmSplit core certainly is the hard part as is calibration, insertion loss and frequency response.....ditched my first CT and got a P6021 years ago for ~$120 IIRC but near impossible to find them for that sort of money now.I have a few and some are duds but as they are a passive design repair may well be possible.Manuals attached for interest.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 01:34:51 am
content: Great advice guys!Seller said the instrument was working and got stored for a few years, he's is selling because is moving to another country.What about this "blank screen" thing, I've found very little of this problem and how to fix it, being the TDS3000 so popular I was expecting more information.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 01:54:28 am
content: I had asked whether the screen was dark or if it lights up but is otherwise blank.

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 02:02:09 am
content: ask him to put a flashlight next to the screen and see if any text is visible when looking at angle.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 02:04:30 am
content: The seller said he would send a video tomorrow or so, Ill post it here =D

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2021, 02:21:09 am
content: If I were you I would just take a gamble and buy it, and figure out what's wrong with it when you get it home. Otherwise if you're asking him to keep checking out and take videos and whatnot one of two things will happen. It will "magically" spring to life and the price will go up dramatically, or somebody like me will come along with cash in hand and snap it up as-is no questions asked. If it turns out the problem is something you can't figure out, turn around and flog it on ebay and you'll probably double your money.I think I paid close to $400 for the last TDS3000 I bought and it was known-dead and not even the more desirable B series because it had an intact casing and I had a working one that was physically falling apart. For a while you could occasionally find working TDS3000's for not a lot more than that but prices have really spiked over the past year or so. An empty shell that is in good cosmetic condition is worth what he's asking.Regarding the problem, if the screen is black there's a reasonable chance the power supply needs some work. If the screen lights up white, I ran into that once and it was a dead oscillator that provided the CPU clock. These things are very desirable and there are a lot of them out there but unfortunately there is very little technical information, Tek never released anything. The "service manual" if you can call it that is completely useless, it has a flowchart that mostly leads to "send it to Tek" or "replace this or that major subassembly". It's really unfortunate this is the case because IMHO they are fantastic instruments that are a perfect form factor and a joy to use, despite the shallow memory depth by modern standards.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 07:57:32 pm
content: Hello mates,that's the video the seller provided, what would you guys advise?https://youtu.be/2NjA2aeH1l4I can't see no lights no LEDs blinking nor relays clicking.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 08:03:58 pm
content: It seems to do nothing at all. It could be a power supply problem. But I'd classify this scope as extremely risky especially if you are not experienced with repairing complicated equipment without circuit diagrams. Unless this is some kind of known problem with a simple known fix. What is also handy to find out is whether someone has tried to fix it; IOW: are the calibration / warranty void stickers intact or has it been opened yet?

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 08:41:54 pm
content: I believe i heard the relays click, but the delay led never came on, is that correct?

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 08:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 29, 2021, 08:03:58 pmI'll ask that...Quote from: YetAnotherTechie on May 29, 2021, 08:41:54 pmTrue, I can hear the relays clicking at 16s

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 08:57:29 pm
content: It all depends on how skilled (and persistent and patient) you are, how lucky you feel and how much the money means to you. I would assess the chance of reasonable component-level reparability at about 50%.I would snap it up instantly, but I have time/space/equipment and even a bit of skill, my luck is based on having patience and I can afford to lose $200 if it doesn't work out. I'm also in a place where I could sell or buy parts fairly readily. Your situation may be different. What is the most complicated thing you have repaired so far?

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 09:17:03 pm
content: So, i heard it again, and i believe i heard the floppy too.You can compare it tohttps://youtu.be/xuQZt6zeyQ4?t=32So, you have two faults, no blink and no display, but it seems to be booting.According to some tek forum post and thishttps://youtu.be/SJW8hTQ5VIw?t=344U600 very likely needs to be reflowed.If you have never done this, you should ask a phone/mac repair shop how much it costs, and have *THEM* do it.If you can afford to buy it with that extra expense, it's a reasonable risk.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2021, 09:25:13 pm
content: Quote from: YetAnotherTechie on May 29, 2021, 08:41:54 pmI listened again but it can be background noise as well. Too bad the kid doesn't keep quiet / the seller doesn't have the sense to make the video in a quiet place and not talk.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 06:10:59 pm
content: "According to some tek forum post and thishttps://youtu.be/SJW8hTQ5VIw?t=344U600 very likely needs to be reflowed.If you have never done this, you should ask a phone/mac repair shop how much it costs, and have *THEM* do it."Mini-Micro-Stencil in southern California, pull ball-grid FPGAs off boards, re-balls them, and re-mounts them for me. The price is $125. I find that very reasonable and have fixed the issue I had each time (a lot of trouble-shooting to get that point). That for an industrial UT board, not a TDS3034 (which I love an use four of them).I can get the contact information from them if interested. I have a board coming back from them on Tuesday. If it doesn't repair it, well then I am only out $125+shipping. Small price to pay to try and repair a $10K board.Dave

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 06:41:50 pm
content: I would buy it for that price. It's worth the price for the I/O module.#1: Like someone said, you should be able to hook a VGA monitor to the VGA output of that I/O module. If the VGA works, a blank screen is one of the rare failure modes of that NEC LCD panels. The same panel is used in an instrument that I work on.#2: Try resetting it by holding in the "B TRIG" button as you turn it on. Keep it held in until you see something on the display.Dave

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 08:23:21 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on May 30, 2021, 06:41:50 pmWe don't know if it has the vga module, if it did, together with the probe would have made everyone here agree it was worth the price.Quote from: daveyk on May 30, 2021, 06:41:50 pmI believe no one here has sugested it, because if it starts working, then the OP won't be able to buy it...

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 08:46:07 pm
content: The scope unfortunately does not have the module installed, so can't test the video.I'll quote tomorrow some BGA rework services.I'm expecting some declines from theses guys, since they usually only do computers/smartphones/video cards stuff.Is there a way to test or know if the powerPc processor really have bad solder joints? It's a shame there is no service manual for this scope.I could eventually sell the scope as parts if the BGA rework does not solve the issue, but would be such a slow move device..I've some practice repairing equipment and a good knowledge in electronics (AFAIK) but I was looking for a scope for development purposes, where I believe my time worth more than fixing tools to do the job. That's why Im scratching my head. Is withdrawing this funds from the SDS2014X+ account is really worth?I really like the scope specs, 4 channels, hackable to 5GSa/s and 600MHz, probe interface (although I've none), a current probe as gift..But there are things I really don't like, like only 10kpts of memory sampling and this defect that has little information available.I would not dare to calling the local tek service center(as there is only one, sigtron. I know they're great guys but they have their price oriented accordingly)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 08:51:10 pm
content: Yep that's your dilemma, buy a new deep memory DSO with a 3 yr warranty and just get on with development projects or take the gamble with your $ and time.Only you can decide.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 09:04:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 30, 2021, 08:51:10 pmThat's true! I've PMed you in the past, its a shame your policy won't let you ship to Brazil

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 09:18:09 pm
content: The only way to test would be to open it and push with your finger on the chip you saw on the video and see if it fixes it, the pushing needs to be done from power off until the end of boot.Besides this, itwillneed the nvram fixed (search the forum), and refresh of the main psu caps plus one resistor (they are never fully off)Someone that can fix graphics card, playstations, etc that has a pre-heat table should should be ok, they could remove the nvram for you while at it.How much would it be worth in your country if working? Maybe it's worth repairing it to flip it...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 09:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on May 30, 2021, 09:04:23 pmTBH I doubt we could better any deal you could get from these guys and shipping will be much less than from NZ:https://siglentna.com/how-to-buy/

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 09:34:49 pm
content: Ill check the BGA service tomorrow and report, then Ill make my decision

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 10:00:18 pm
content: rvalente, this could be anything, really - as simple as a display controller connection (loose wire) to a reballing job. If the description is accurate (worked before; doesn't work after a few years turned off), I would bet on components that age pretty badly such as electrolytic capacitors, batterires, etc. If the scope was stored in bad conditions (high humidity), the solution could be as simple as wash some boards. If, however, the person lives near the ocean, the damage could be much worse, as "maresia" can be really destructive to exposed boards.As my dad always said: only gamble with your excess money - if you are saving for a more serious scope, I would be much more averse.Good luck in your decision!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2021, 10:08:26 pm
content: If this is your first/only 'scope then I wouldn't buy it, the risk is way too high.It might be something simple but it might not. When those things die, they really die.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2021, 01:58:13 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 30, 2021, 10:08:26 pmSame thing here i would not put 200$ on this scope, even with schematics "if it is your first scope"Before buying an oldie, check many things like forums feedback's / troubles / solutions / upgrades or hacks, if an SV manual is available ... and finally could it be calibrated.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 01:30:05 pm
content: "SDS2014X+ account is really worth?"Yes, the TDS3000 series is old without the memory depth (which is not a concern for me). That Siglent is toy in comparison to the TDS3034B. Siglent have VERY limited measurement configuration capabilities that at one time, I thought they were going to address, but in the last two-three years have not.If you plan to control the scope via programming (SPCI)/GPIB, TDS3000 is the way to go. Yes, you can do that via network or USB with the SIGLENT, but my experience with Siglent low end products, with the exception of the SDG2000X series of Function Generators, is that they are flaky at command response or requested data. Commands that should work, and do work 90% of the time, can cause issues 10% of the time. I was even able to give my utility software a little "AI"(lol) to know when controlling the Siglent scope to expect control failures never experienced with the Tek. I got it working pretty good with the Siglent scope with adding that command failure tolerance in to the program. What broke my camel's back with the Siglent scope was the inability to configure measurement reference points.Other than the Dallas Battery Ram issue that all TDS3000 series scope will face (and there is a fantastic work around for that), they have been 100% reliable and super, super stable for me, and have very, very favorable measurements between channels and between different scopes in the same series (typically no two scopes will read the same very short pulser width the same of the Low Signal level with very high speed pulses in the -300volt range, but the TDS3000s do compare pretty favorably to each other [typically within ~2%]).Anyway, those are just my opinions and do not reflect the reality of 90% of the others using these products either professionally or as a hobby. You have to assess your own needs and what you use it for. If you do not care about measurement configurability, or controlling it reliably with software, then the Siglent has a really nice display and is a very light and attractive scope.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 02:39:30 pm
content: Would the seller be open for offers?You could offer e.g. $50, and say you pay $150(maybe minus any costs) if you're able to fix it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 03:06:23 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 01, 2021, 01:30:05 pmSo broken Tektronix is better that new generation Siglent that is very good scope.. Because small memory on Tek is no problem to you (we're talking 10kpoints here, that was reason Keysight was marketing their 2 MPts scopes as "large memory" scopes at the time), but SCPI stability with your software is not to your liking. That sounds a bit stretched..If there are SCPI stability problems they should be fixed, no question there.But how many users out there use it that way? Do you think that is primary use case for everybody? In ATE scenarios that is primary use, OTOH there are people that literally never in 10 years connected the scope and issued SCPI command to it. To each it's own..What do you mean by "Siglent have VERY limited measurement configuration capabilities that at one time, I thought they were going to address, but in the last two-three years have not"?Do you refer to SCPI, or measurements?Also what does "inability to configure measurement reference points." means, would you please elaborate?And I do not try to start a fight here, I genuinely don't understand the meaning and would like to know. If there are bugs, Siglent should fix them...Regards,

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 04:45:51 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 01, 2021, 03:06:23 pmIt is simple: if you need something that works today you can't wait for a manufacturer to fix bugs or add features -assuming that even happens at some point-. You buy something that works for your purpose today. Daveyk is perfectly clear about that.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 07:04:45 pm
content: "What do you mean by "Siglent have VERY limited measurement configuration capabilities that at one time, I thought they were going to address, but in the last two-three years have not"?Do you refer to SCPI, or measurements?Also what does "inability to configure measurement reference points." means, would you please elaborate?And I do not try to start a fight here, I genuinely don't understand the meaning and would like to know. If there are bugs, Siglent should fix them..."No fighting please. I am a little bitter towards siglent, yet I just bought another SDG2042X - lol. The SDG2042X is a VERY VERY solid generator, both in use and remote control.I also have had a SDG5162X for the last year. Let me tell you it is a fight. It will work perfect 3 days out of 5 and then with the same program fxck up. I have spent litterally hours and hours, trying to track down what my program was doing wrong. I was able to play with command times, making sure an incorrect command wasn't being sent by a code module, etc., Then the failures can happen. The program is trying to lower the output below 0volts. The front panel of the SDG5162X will show 0 volts, yet it is putting out 4vPP. The only fix is to turn off the generator and turn it back on. Oh sometimes, it comes up in chinese by deafault. I have to send the language command remotely to get it back. The SDG5161X does NOT respond to the remote *RST command, by the way. Then other failures, I will catch my program trying to raise the output above 10 volts (the program knows it can not), the panel will show 10.0VPP and the generator will put out 6vPP. The only fix. Off and Back on again. Then next day and several to follow the EXACT same program and the SDG5162X will work perfect together. There is no rime or reason when it will work okay remotely. I even spent the $160+ shipping to buy Siglents USB to GPIB adaptor and tried to run the SDG5162X from GPIB rather than USB. I was thinking the timing may be better. Holy crap, it is a lot more flaky (best term I have for it remote control) when running from GPIB.So, for the last year, I lived with the SDG5162X just being flaky several days a week. When it would need turned off and on, I could pause the program power cycle it and it would typically be fine for the rest of the test.As to the SDS1204E-E Scope, it took me a while but I was able to control it via the network with SPCI/GPIB commands fairly well. One of the critical readings in order to accept the scope in to my calibration software is measuring the pulse width of a -300v pulse. The pulse has a typical rise (fall) time <10ns and maybe a pulse width of 88ns. The voltage peak can be about -300volts (varies a lot based on the instrument under test setting). That waveform's shame is roughly a "V". Siglent measure pulse width at 50% mid-reference points (down 50% and back up 50%). That's fine, but noone in my industry measure negative pulse widths at 50% (as we are not dealing with sharp square pulses). Pulse Widths are measure 10% down from the zero baseline. So in a Tek or Agilent scope, you would set the MID Reference points at 90% (88.5% to get reliable readings). 90% Mid-reference points would be 10% down on a negative pulse. I email Siglent and they agree that would be a great idea. Then rather than giving that reconfigurable capability in the next 2 or 3 firmware releases, they suggested that I have my program read the waveform data in and the use the software to calculate what ever reference points I wanted. What? I'm guess that would take a little time, which would not really be an issue, but I could never get a waveform data catching routine to work in Visual Basic. It worked fine in Python (there only example of doing so), but I never got it working in VBA. It could be the data dump speed or buffer, I just never go it to sync up correctly. So that SDS1204E-E ended up sitting on the shelf. It is a very pretty scope and looks nice in front of customers if you do field work, but just never turned out practical. The Screen capture software never worked reliable, maybe if I was lucky, Siglent's utility worked 10% of the time. I found it easiest just to type the scope's IP address in to Chrome see its screen and do the old <Windows Key><S> (snippet tool) and do a screen capture of just the scope screen. That work fine but just awkward compared to using a capture tool and copying the screen to the clipboard and then pasting in to word.I could have lived and adapted to with browser "win" "s" for screen captures. I could adapt to the 200MHz Bandwidth, verses 300MHz or 500MHz. But the inability to control the mid-reference points (and high/Low reference points) for measurements, like I can on Tek and Agilent scopes, it what killed the SDS1204E-E for me. Getting a message from them thinking that was a great idea and then never doing anything about it was a turn-off too. I asked if I buy a higher end Siglent, in the $3000+ range, can I control the reference points. They never answered me, so that answered that. We are now using all OLD TDS3054s, TDS3052s, and TDS3034Cs because of that.We do calibrations using static function generated signals or reading the negative pulses from the instrument, and other tings, so deep memory looking for a flaky data signals, or a noise spike sometime in history, is not important.The Siglent does have some cool tools as reading an RS232 BUS or a IIC bus. I thought I would really use the IIC bus for trouble-shooting problems on an instrument's IIC bus when trouble-shooting a failure, but what found was that if an IC was not responding on the bus, it typically has a shorted input which then produces false, or incorrect, data on the bus. It does no good to decode an IIC bus if there is a bad chip on it. it just shorts out the bus. I'm sure for development, or experimentation, that ability is excellent; for service, not so much.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 07:14:51 pm
content: "And I do not try to start a fight here, I genuinely don't understand the meaning and would like to know. If there are bugs, Siglent should fix them...It is simple: if you need something that works today you can't wait for a manufacturer to fix bug"Naa, I didn't take that for fighting. I always just have a hard time describing the measurement needs in a scope we have (which in the olden days sonny was done with a straight edge on the CRT to a reference graticle, ...and we loved it - lol). I was used to the capability in these old TDS3000 scope from the late 1990s. I never considered why wouldn't modern/new scopes would not have what old ones did. I figured they would be a continuation of old with new stuff. In my opinion only, it seems the screen have gotten a lot nicer, but functionality still had not quite caught up with the late 1990's (or even the early-mid 1990's TDS480s).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 07:21:22 pm
content: I still think it's crazy seeing all this hemming and hawing over a ridiculously cheap TDS3000B. A person could grab it up for $200 and flip it on ebay the next day, doubling their money even once the fees are factored in. If it turned out to be easily fixed then they could easily quadruple their money. I cannot imagine even hesitating, I would have snapped it up in an instant without even bothering to plug it in, the empty shell with the knobs and other bits is worth the asking price and then some.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 07:28:27 pm
content: I would have bought it instantly too. I was going to ask him if he wasn't how do I contact the person who is selling it, then I figured out this was somewhere in SA. Then too much trouble.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 08:22:01 pm
content: P.S. - I want to apologize to everyone here. I still am holding a grudge/sore spot for that Siglent scope (SDS1204E-E) that I really, really want to love. I left it get the better of me (AGAIN). No fighting please on my opinion of a scope that is fantastic for 99.9999% of you all out there.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 09:15:26 pm
content: I wish more people in my country would just go out and buy a Siglent instead of driving up the prices on the old Tek scopes I like. You used to be able to get a working one for around $400, now it's rare to see one sell for under twice that and the B models are usually over $1k in working condition.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 09:57:37 pm
content: I recently purchase a TDS3034C for $900 on ebay, with four TEK probes (un-openned). To my chagrin, I found out I can not upgrade the C to 500MHz; ah, but that's okay. The main scope on my calibration bench is a TDS3054 (no bloody B or C). I bought that as a TDS3014 on EBAY for $1000 with four scope probe, the GPIB/Serial/VGA module installed and front cover. I was thrilled.I am also still VERY VERY thrilled with the replacement Dallas SUB-PCBS that you made for me. That is one beautiful assembly. For what I do, the TDS3000 series is the perfect scope for me. I can't believe we are getting them for $1000, or less on EBAY when they sold for over $10,000 new. Were they not discontinue only about 5 years ago? (C version)

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 10:02:03 pm
content: Tektronix says this is the replacement for a TDS3034:https://www.newark.com/tektronix/mdo34-3-bw-350/3-series-mixed-domain-oscilloscope/dp/02AH4131Heck it is only $9600. lol

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 10:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 01, 2021, 07:04:45 pmI well remember taking that issue in detail to Siglent for you but I do not know if it was addressed as I haven't checked it with later firmware. Have you ?V6.1.35R2 is the latest version for 4ch X-E's.QuoteWhen you're connected to the scope and using the webserver there's a dedicated virtual button to save a screenshot to your PC's download folder. Have you never found this ?QuoteNot checked as I didn't know that you were considering a 2000 or 5000 series but certainly there are many more measurement types in these instruments but one of the beta testers reading this thread can check and take this adjustable ref point request to them again particularly for their higher value DSO's.

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 11:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 01, 2021, 10:28:55 pmAt one time I would have considered it. Considering Tek, Keysight, R&S, prices. a $3000 Siglent is great price for a high end scope. I would not consider it anymore as I now have four TDS3000 series scopes, and the Siglent. High end or not, even with the SDS1204E-E (which is almost as good as a TDS3000 in a lot of ways....), adjustable HIGH/LOW, and the two MID reference levels is (it seems to me) simply a software option. The scopes software knows how to read pulse width. It takes a TOF reading at the first 50% point and then another TOF reading and the next 50% point, subtracts the first reading from the seconds and calculates time. Now if that 50% could be anything the user needs, wow, that would sell me on using it again, more than I do. For me, I do not see the need for two mid reference point settings, but I am sure there is someone that would need both. If you get your hands on a Tek TDS3000, or other series sometime, look how simple a menu it is for setting reference values. They even let you set the low and high reference for FALL/RISE time. I'm not sure if anyone ever needs to change those from 10%/90% but maybe someone does. That does not effect my use, but it is such a simple menu option on the Tek.I love the display of the SDS1204E-E! I even adapted my utilities to use the scope and could get data from it that was damn close to the TEK scope, which, I think, is actually kind of amazing since scopes do not often agree, between their own channels let along between others of their models or other brands. The control and data acq of the SDS1204E-E was actually rather quicker than I am used to. I just got stumped with the mid reference points. If I could get a good VBA routine to read the channel trace data in to an array, I could most likely easily calculate pulser widths at any reference point I want, BUT BUT, the screen shot would still show the results at 50% and someone would eventually ask why the included screenshot is different that what I typed in to the report (I would still love a routine in VB that worked - I enjoy a challenge). Siglent's example of acquiring the trace data is in Python. Why Python for that??? Is that not mainly used in Arduino's and Pies? They show VB examples for only the very basic control functions.Anyway, thank you, kindly, for your assistance and help. Please have a good evening. I am shutting down and going upstairs now 8-)Dave

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 11:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 01, 2021, 11:40:23 pmYes EasyScopeX can be a PITA to get working if the install is not done correctly with the NIVISA Runtime package installed first before attempting to connect the scope and especially for USB as Windows in particular installs USB drivers it thinks are correct but they don't work. The addition of a webserver in X-E and some other models has solved all these headaches as it offers all the same functionality and is easier to use however it requires a LAN connection and a nearby switch to connect into.QuoteThere's a couple of screen tabs for full screen or a pop out virtual front panel along with more virtual addon buttons at the foot of the control panel.From my archives:

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:53:00 am
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 01, 2021, 11:40:23 pmHaving Low, Mid and High measurement sample point is useful. On new touchscreen Siglents, they have it. Low and high are used for risetime and related measurements, and Mid threshold point for time related measurements (that includes pulse width, period, duty cycle, phase and such). So the touchscreen series definitely works the way you want them to.Unfortunately, I don't have access to SDS1000X-E series scope so I cannot check for you what it does with the latest firmware. Quick search trough manual doesn't show there is setting for Mid threshold point though...As for two mid references, I can see it being useful for time/phase measurements between events on two separate channels, so you could measure time between one edge on CH1 at level L1 and edge on signal on CH2 at level L2....That can also be measured by using time from trigger measurement, so you set first edge with trigger, and other with the reference point. That gives you also full power of trigger for first edge. So on SDS1000X-E series you could do measurement from trigger (that you can set anywhere) and 50 % point.On SDS2000X+ you can not only set Low,Mid,High thresholds, but also strategy for vertical measurements (top and base measurement). And all of them have gating separate from cursors.. And histograms....and many other things..I would venture and say that SDS2000X+ would definitely be able to do what you need. It is noticeably more expensive than 1000X-E series though.. It has many more advantages from 1000X-E series, but if you do a lot of automation, than having better interactive user experience might not mean much to you, if you're not going to sit in front of the scope for hours..Best,

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 10:49:55 am
content: Please get back on the OP thread topics .... sad to see many post(s) drifting this wayI have dug out yesterday, unused TDS3014B at my job ??, It was a nightmare to find an usb floppy loll, just upgraded it to the v3.39 "Hackable firmware", the older FW was 3.1x ...Just reading threads about it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 10:53:49 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on June 02, 2021, 10:49:55 amFair enough, over and out! Sorry!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 11:05:58 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 01, 2021, 07:21:22 pmJames, at about 5~6:1 conversion rate, $200 in Brazil is a metric ton of money depending on your conditions - besides, given the market is comparatively much smaller, the cosmetic bits and pieces of the scope that move well here in the US will probably be much harder to sell there at a good price to make up for the scope itself. Sure, it may be an easy fix, but it is still a gamble.Quote from: daveyk on June 01, 2021, 08:22:01 pmDon't need to apologize; these discussions are very interesting to equip users with information regarding the nooks and crannies of complex instruments such as oscilloscopes. Sure, these may well be fixed in an upcoming version "X" of the firmware, but it is quite valid to help people make their decisions.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 11:15:54 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 01, 2021, 09:15:26 pmBut that is in the US.The rest of the world (doesn't need to be Brazil as in this particular case) can't even find them at "over $1k".

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 04:30:40 pm
content: When the scope gets back from TMI with its yearly 17025 certification, I will look in to that.Dave

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 04:48:33 pm
content: "I would venture and say that SDS2000X+ would definitely be able to do wh..."Yea, it looks really exciting (i wonder <cough><cough> if it can be upgraded...?). At the time, I did not receive and answer from them on the capabilities of being able to set low/high/mid reference points, so I gave up on their scopes. I would have bought one back then. I could buy one now, but I can not really justify it. It would be just something "cool" to have now, because I have four TDS305x series scopes in rotation between the lab and the field kits. And they work very well. What I prefer about the Siglent is the great screen. I also don't like being forces to spend another $1500 (give or take) on yet another new scope to get that feature. In their example they show their FFT, which looks nice. I wonder if it can be set to show the peak, and the two lower -3dB frequencies? Built in Wave Generator for an additional $220? I wonder if it can be set to produce variable delayed triggered sinewaves, 2 cycles each? That would be cool and possibly reduce the need to carry a SDG2000x in the field. I doubt it has all its capabilities. That asking to much for an afterthought feature in the scope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 07:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 02, 2021, 04:48:33 pmYes.Yes.There was a promo running for SDS2000X Plus where most options are offered free including FG however as you suspect its AWG is nowhere as powerful as the standalone SDG2000X. (5V max)If you hunt around there may still be some units offered with the free option package as if when we order them the promo was still active and we get them months later we can still offer them to the market with the promo package.Thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/

author: daveyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 10:28:01 pm
content: "There was a promo running for SDS2000X Plus where most options are offered free including FG"That would be nice, but it is unlikely to find one like that from a year and a half ago.Dave

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 10:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: daveyk on June 02, 2021, 10:28:01 pmIt officially ended in March '21 although for not all markets as it's still active for us.Recent EEVblog buyers have reported their units came with the free option package installed.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 04:32:21 pm
content: After a serious considerations i gave up on this equipment, to risky as i prefer getting a brand new with warranty.Anyway, great topics here

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 07:08:49 pm
content: Good decision, in my opinion. Which scope do you think you will buy?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 08:37:25 pm
content: I wonder if they'd be interested in shipping to the US? Even if shipping ends up costing $100 it's a good deal.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 09:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on June 03, 2021, 07:08:49 pmI believe the siglent sds2104x+ checks all my boxes.Quote from: james_s on June 03, 2021, 08:37:25 pmId say the fedex shipping would cost you around 200usd, id never ship thru the Brazilian post