Microwave therapy device, WTF - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2018, 12:12:19 am
content: In other tread I stumbled on one "medical" equipment manufacturer and found microwave therapy device in their product list. WTF, pumping 2450Mhz 250W continuous or 1500W peak into human. It's like standing in front of opened microwave oven.QuoteIf there is warmth sensation, you already getting tissue damage. I cannot find anything about microwave therapy other than destroying cancer tissue.http://partner.enraf-nonius.org/files/Catalogues_Brochures_Leaflets/Enraf-Nonius_electro/Enraf-Nonius_Radarmed_650_950_EN.pdf

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2018, 12:17:33 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 12, 2018, 12:13:25 amKreosan wears tinfoil hat and tinfoil pants.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2018, 12:40:01 am
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diathermy

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2018, 12:49:16 am
content: Microwave radiation is not ionizing radiation, other than the risk of localized burns I don't think there is a great danger. Standing in front of an open microwave oven is probably not wise because it's relatively high power and set up to heat objects. I would expect any kind of medical device is carefully controlled with an evenly diffused output.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 11:33:43 am
content: Lol I hope they at least do something to protect the eyes. That would probably be the most sensitive part. That, and reproductive organs if you still plan to use them.It may not be ionizing but does not mean it can't be dangerous and cause permanent damage.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 12:14:54 pm
content: this shouldn't be an issue, if the microwave beam is diverging in a nice even diffuse pattern it will just warm you like an electric fire or IR heater would but do it more efficientlymicrowave ovens have horrible hot spots inside the cooking cavity which would burn you if you put your hand in the right spot, this is why they have a turntableI would expect that medical equipment to be nicely engineered not to do that

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 01:27:59 pm
content: Will this fix my crushed Lumbar Disc in my lower back?

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 06:44:26 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on January 14, 2018, 01:27:59 pmNo but it might make it well done, I wonder what the ideal cuisson is on a lumbar disc.That being said, if we consider this a valid medical device for alleviating things like back aches there are some guidelines. If we keep it simple and look to the giant microwave oven that a MRI scanner is: the MRI guideline is somewhere around 4-5W per kg of tissue, with up to 20 W/kg for some specific cases (e.g. you can do this to someone's foot), if I remember well from my medical imaging days. This is only the average power over something like 5-10 minutes - depending on local regulations. You should be able to find tables of the exposure limits fairly quickly for your region. (e.g. a quick google:https://www.medtronic.com/content/dam/medtronic-com/mri-surescan/documents/SAR_White_Paper.pdf) So, yes, you can go way above that instantaneously. The amplifiers on the average MRI scanner can easily reach a few tens of kW of instantaneous output power (very shortly), because you got to be generating fields in the order of mT/m with those gradient coils and the RF transmitter itself is also a piece of work. Really depends on the scan sequence, and they tend to over design some of these things massively in my humble opinion. But surprisingly little of that power goes into the patient. I remember the power dissipation estimation of the scanner I worked with often overestimated it by 50% or more, it easily burned up 30-40% of the power in the coils themselves. And given how many times I got microwaved by one of those, I'm surprisingly ok with this microwave heating concept in a way. So yeah that means that at 250W you could stick a 50 kg human underneath for 5-10 minutes if you ignore the whole list of boundary conditions, and I'd be amazed if this wasn't pulsed in some way which would make it fairly safe in the grand scheme of things.And before you ask, the actual permissible power level for MRI also tends to depend on the operator qualifications, medical diagnosis, and the patient itself. Transmitter average output power during scan sequences is in the 10 - 100W range usually, partially being the reason why some scan sequences take so long (you don't want to go over SAR limits). The real question is what's considered "acceptable", e.g. if you want to get a good look at something that's about to kill someone, you're not exactly going to have much moral qualms going a bit over those limits if it gives a better image. Also sometimes by dumping in a lot more power you can get the image a lot quicker as well. But you don't want to boil the innards of someone with a bad case of tendinitis. And I haven't touched one of these things in 5 years so my apologies if any part of it is wrong.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 06:51:45 pm
content: Relevant:http://southpark.cc.com/clips/mu1zf6/microwaving-your-balls(We love you randy!!!) Spoiler: Randy finds a way to get medicinal marijuana

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2018, 10:40:51 pm
content: nice I build one if my neighbour is to loude the will never fure out what happened.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2018, 11:52:53 pm
content: Funny I had a neighbour who was constantly playing super loud music, and it crossed my mind to build a microwave gun so I can aim at his speakers.That or a FM transmitter to overtake the radio station he had on so it can play some sine waves that I can adjust and try to hit the resonant frequency of the speakers. Downside is a transmitter powerful enough to do that would probably affect other people too and be super illegal.He stopped with the loud music though. I have a feeling he's had the cops called on him several times and probably got a last warning or something.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 08:06:13 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on January 15, 2018, 11:52:53 pmFunny, I had the exact same scenario, my partner lived in an apartment when I met her and had several successive neighbors who would blast loud music at odd hours of the night. She got fed up and moved in with me before I ever got around to building any mad scientist contraptions, probably for the best.