Logic Analyzer in Keysight MSOX4000A Series - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:14:51 pm
content: Anyone have any direct hands-on experience with the logic analyzer functions in the Keysight MSOX4000A (or MSOX3000T) series scopes?Keysight have a promotion to buy an MSO scope for the price of an DSO model and I'm wondering if the MSO features are really usable. I'm considering getting a MSOX4024A for use at home. I have experience with Tek MDO scopes and found the logic analyzer features useful. How are they on the Keysight? How do they compare, for example, with a Saleae?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:18:48 pm
content: Ofcourse the MSO features are useable! AFAIK HP invented the MSO. Just notice the difference between a logic analyser (capture then analyse) and an MSO (look at signals realtime). On an MSO triggering will be less versatile and things like selective storage (store on changes or store on event) and synchronous sampling will be missing.edit: typos

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:30:33 pm
content: Can you share the link to this promotion, so other forum users can take a closer look at this deal?

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 11:33:09 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on August 01, 2016, 11:30:33 pmhttp://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2676527&nid=-32546.0.00&id=2676527

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 05:49:44 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 01, 2016, 11:14:51 pmJust curious, why this one? We have DSOX4104s at work, they had their problems, and it's pretty expensive for what you get.

author: LPaul
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 06:23:56 am
content: Noticed while checking the offer out that all the price on the keysight website (US one) have been remplaced by "Get quote" link. Is that the case for everybody ?

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 07:15:48 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 02, 2016, 05:49:44 amPrimarily for the larger screen, Keysight name, and feature set.Do you recommend something else in this price range?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 08:32:34 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 02, 2016, 07:15:48 amI understand. It's pretty rare to hear someone buying a $5k+ scope for home use.QuoteIt depends on what you want to do and where your priorities are, and if screen size is of upmost importance then there isn't much else. But the DSOX Series in general is pretty limited (only 4M sample memory which in many situations leaves you with 2M only, plus only 64k FFT max sample size), which even for an entry-level scope would be considered 'poor' these days. The DSOX4k Series was also the only one where we've seen excessive noise (not on all units, roughly 4 out of ten were affected).If you are willing to compromise a little with the screen then have a look at the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3024:http://teledynelecroy.com/doc/docview.aspx?id=9094It comes with a 10.2 WSVGA screen (1024x600) and 4GSa/s, but gives you 10M/ch, 1M FFT, some really nifty functions like WaveScan (which finds anomalies), plus an UI that was designed for touch from the ground up. MSO and AWG options are available as well. Plus (unlike Keysight, which separates probes for their InfiniVision and Infiniium scopes) the scope works with all LeCroy probes made in the last 20 years or so and will with future probes for a long time (LeCroy is also pretty good in keeping older scopes updated, much more so than Keysight). Support is generally very good, and that inlcudes their older scopes as well.The WaveSurfer 3024 is currently$3800 from Digi-Key, but you might get it cheaper from LeCroy directly. Also, LeCroy usually throws in all the options for free if you ask, and considering Keysight's current free MSO promo they'd certainly want to match that as well.However, even if you for some reason really want a Keysight DSOX, you could save roughly a grand by going for the DSOX3024T (which is pretty much a DSOX4024A with a smaller screen).Don't get me wrong, the DSOX4k isn't a bad scope (I occasionally pick one up if I need a simple scope that's not too heavy) and what it does it does well. But aside from the large (low-resolution) screen its a lot of money for what essentially is an aging entry-level platform with tiny memory.Also, money saved could mean more money left for good probes, which are equally important as a good scope. Something which is often forgotten over a scope purchase.My recommendation would be to get both scopes as loaners and then put them through their paces before deciding for one. You should always test-drive a scope you're going to spend considerable money on, because at the end of the day it has to work foryou.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 09:19:20 am
content: I have to agree with Wuerstchenhund. For MSOX4000A money I'd be sure to take a look at Lecroy's Wavesurfer 3000. The biggest problem with Keysight scopes is that the actual memory length is 1/4th of what it says on the badge. OTOH the MSO extension to the Wavesurfer 3000 is rather expensive.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 11:13:34 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 02, 2016, 07:15:48 amMr W has suggested a similar Lecroy model range, thats comparable on all specifications. For a purchase in this price range you'd ideally want some hands on time before committing to a choice and I always recommend you ask the local representatives for a loan or demo first, let them know you're checking out the competitionIf you're not stuck already with expensive probes from any specific manufacturer it's a lot easier to shop around for a better deal, and you can make a good deal for accessories with a scope purchase be that licenses or probes. You'll not get any discount buying them later but it's an easy trap to be up sold a group of things you might beed by never use which is why the demos are so useful to find out what's important to you.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 11:46:47 am
content: If the hardware of the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3000 is identical to the Siglent SDS3000, it might be worth to import the Siglent SDS3000 from China and install LeCroy firmware on it.http://www.siglent.com/oscilloscope/SDS3000Has someone actually tried it on this forum? I know some people did it with the Siglent SDG1025If this would work, you can save some money and have a nice white looking scope!But the prices aren't extremely low either unfortunately:http://mytaofocus.com/shop/item.php?id=43550966183#76748362378

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 02, 2016, 09:19:20 amInteresting, on P9 of the above datasheet the MSO probe set appears to have 4 flat cables but only showing 2 x 8 channel pods yet is only rated at 16 channels.If it weren't for the apparently 4 cables not 2 exiting the scope connector I'd swear it was the same as the new MSO probe set from the SDS2000X series.Has anyone handled these LeCroy WS 3000 MSO pods in the wild?Are they used on other LeCroy scopes?Are there 32 channels on these MSO pods but only 16 used for the WS3k?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on August 02, 2016, 11:46:47 amYeah, great idea! Buying a scope that is only supported and warranted in China, import it to the US (and pay some hefty customs) to force-flash the firmware (which is protected and checks the hardware ID) of another scope on it just to have in the best case an functional equivalent of a WS3000 but without LeCroy's warranty and support.While that's already a pretty poor idea by itself, the fact that the SDG3000 isn't actually cheaper than the WaveSurfer 3000 (and that is even before shipping and customs/taxes, which means the SDS3000 delivered would very likely be much more expensive than buying the supported original) makes this into a completely braindead idea.At least you wouldn't have to send the SDS3000 back to China if it fails because the firmware force-flash alone would have voided any Siglent warranty that the SDS3000 might have had.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:32:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 02, 2016, 12:26:25 pmThat might well be the case. It's probably worth a try if there's a chance to try it.QuoteI've seen a few, but didn't pay much attention to the MSO probe.QuoteNo, it's only used on the WaveSurfer 3000. Other scopes use the external MS-250/MS-500 LA adapters which connect via L-Bus.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:38:41 pm
content: I agree that the idea about the Siglent SDS3000 was a bad one!But maybe the MSO probe is cheaper in China, so that at least would be a way to bring the price down

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 12:42:33 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 02, 2016, 12:32:41 pmThank you.Please do take note of the WS3k MSO probe when you have a chance, it would be interesting to know just why it has 4 flat cables for just 16 channels, or does each channel have its own reference lead?Anyway the very similar looking Siglent 2kX series MSO probe set retails for a little over $400.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:04:31 pm
content: I agree that is not worth the hassle to got with the Siglent but the fact it is rebadged makes me wonder about the quality? Is it completely different software in the Siglent to the Lecroy? Who made what and what level of quality does this scope represent? As far as I know, least with Keysight you are buying something they built themselves. Their support is also really really good. My DSOX3024A stopped working. They came out and collected it, repaired it, checked calibration and delivered it back to me within two weeks. They even told me what the fault was. That is a high level of support for a product and when these things are not cheap, knowing you have such support is very good.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:11:37 pm
content: FYI2 threadshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy's-newest-siglent-scope-is-here!/

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:38:08 pm
content: Quote from: trevwhite on August 02, 2016, 01:04:31 pmThis has been discussed extensively in this forum already but the short version is that the hardware of both scopes was designed in co-operation by LeCroy and Siglent, and the hardware is manufactured by Siglent and the software comes from LeCroy (Siglent doesn't touch it). These types of co-operations are pretty common for LeCroy, which they did in the past with various others, i.e. Iwatsu of Japan. LeCroy teaches the partner how to properly design a scope while benefitting from the partner's production capabilities.Siglent has been chosen because they have demonstrated that they can produce very good hardware at low cost. The areas they struggle with are software (firmware) and in the past quality control to some extend. For the WS3k/SDS3k, the first point isn't a problem as LeCroy provides the software, and the latter was never a problem for the WS3k/SDS3k production run.This isn't quite the same as a rebadge job, i.e. the LeCroy WaveAce scopes and WaveStation AWGs, which are simple re-badge of Siglent products (and for which Siglent has the development responsibility).QuoteExcept when it's made by Rigol, or Tabor, or one of the various other OEMs Keysight uses for various pieces of kit.QuoteThat's true, Keysight support is very good, although they can be pretty quick in abandoning product maintenance after a product has reached end of sale. For example, the last software update for my Infiniium 8000 scope is from 2009.LeCroy's support, especially in the US, is abolutely on par with Keysight. However, LeCroy tends to offer better long-term support. For example, all its scopes are fully supported for at least 7 years after end of sales, and after that on a "best effort" basis (they still repair the LeCroy 9300 Series from back in the mid-'90s). They also regularly (usually twice a year) update their unified scope software (X-Stream software), and these updates not only support current scopes but pretty much every X-Stream scope back to the first WM8k from late 2001. That means while my Infiniium 8000 from 2008 hasn't seen an upgrade in 7 years, the LeCroy equivalent from the same era (2005 WaveRunner Xi) which I had until recently got its latest update this year.And these updates not only fix bugs or bring new functionality, they also update the support for probes. Which is the reason that pretty much every LeCroy X-Stream scope, even the first ones from 2001, can use the latest probes, which is a bonus, especially when LeCroy hasn't artificially prevented some probes to work on specific scopes as Keysight has done.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 01:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 02, 2016, 12:42:33 pmEvery digital 16 channel have signal and ground for best signal integrity.Also 3k and 2k have different impedance (when it is Siglent) 2000 have 18pF 100k. 3000 have 5pF 100k

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 03:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 02, 2016, 08:32:34 amI'll take a look at the LeCroy scopes. I'm sure they have something comparable to the Keysight and Tek models.Another possibility that someone mentioned outside this thread is a high-end USB scope. I looked at the PicoScope website and their 6403D model looks interesting. For about the same price as the Keysight MSOX4024A it has a 350 MHz bandwidth (the Keysight is 200 MHz), 1G sample memory (versus 4M--that's 250x more), 1M FFT (versus 64K), USB 3.0, and a screen size limited only by what's attached to your PC (27" 4K monitor in my case). Also, all of the serial protocol decoders are included, unlike Keysight where you have to pay for each one. It doesn't have the logic analyzer capability the Keysight MSO does, however.The same person also suggested I look at Hameg, which seems to be popular in Europe and is now owned by Rohde & Schwarz. I'd not heard of them, but they might stand some looking into too.I might even consider a Rigol if the feature set is reasonable and the price is sufficiently lower than a Keysight or LeCroy to make it worthwhile. After all, one can always buy more test equipment with the savings. One of the things that turned me off the Rigol a few years ago when I saw them at DesignCon was the sluggishness of the UI. Response to turning the knobs seemed to lag, especially when it had math functions and other features turned on. The Rigol rep I spoke to at the show said the company was working on custom ASICs to replace the FPGAs used in the then-current models. According to him, the use of FPGAs was what made the UI slow. Perhaps they fixed this problem by now (that conversation with the rep was several years ago). The Rigol scopes certainly seem popular with hobbyists.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 05:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 02, 2016, 03:41:47 pmWhere I work we use quite a few of the PicoScopes in various applications, and pretty much all of them automatized. They are generally good at what they do, but even those that absolutely love them wouldn't go as far as recommending them as a replacement for a proper benchtop scope. There's a reason why scopes still have knobs and buttons and are self-contained, simply because in terms of usability it's hard to beat.QuoteHameg has nice scopes but they are not exactly in the same class as the scopes mentioned here. They are pretty much entry-level scopes, good, reliable, but with tiny screens. Apart from the Hameg low-end, R&S also has its own scopes, and their competitor to the DSOX4000 is the RTM2000. However, as with R&S in general, prices are pretty close to Keysight.QuoteRigol is even further down the foot chain than Hameg. The DS1054z is incredibly cheap which makes it a great beginners' scope, the DS2000 was a good alternative to the Keysight DSOX2000 when it came out a few years ago (these days there are other alternatives, i.e. the GW Instek GDS2000E), the DS4000 is pretty much just a 4ch variant of the DS2000, and the DS6000 is nothing than a bad joke. All their scopes are pretty basic, don't expect any of the advanced gizmos you'll find in other scopes. All scopes have large memory but no real tools to make sensible use of it (i.e. searching for glitches). FFT is between poor (16k with the DS1000z) to a sad joke (4kpts or so with the others). All Rigol scopes came to market with bug-ridden firmware, but the worst bugs should have been resolved by now. There's also a hardware flaw (just search for "Project Yaigol") which some people say has beenpatched overfixed (I wouldn't hold my breath). Support seems to be hit and miss, but is nowhere near what you can expect from the big brands (except Tek maybe).QuoteYes, but mostly because they are cheap and hackable. On the other side, there's a reason why Rigol is hardly found in commercial settings.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2016, 05:36:12 pm
content: Besides R&S there is also Yokogawa which could have interesting models if you have the budget to spend on a Keysight MSOX4000 series. I don't know about the options for Yokogawa and the last time I asked about the options for R&S they where insanely expensive. At least Keysight has nice package deals a few times per year.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 12:40:05 am
content: After reading reviews of the Rigol, I've ruled it out because it seems to have performance issues and lots of FW bugs (although many of them may have been fixed since the reviews were written).I've ruled out the R&S and the Yokogawa as support for these in the States is probably not on a par with Keysight/LeCroy/Tek support.At this point I'm leaning towards the Keysight MSOX4024A. The only thing lacking on this scope is the sample memory -- a piddly 4M. Since the memory is segmented and Keysight usually implements this well, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I still have a Saleae I can use for slow serial protocols like I2C, but what I want is a faster scope/LA to help me debug FPGA stuff. I just started with FPGAs and have found that the Saleae just isn't adequate to effectively see FPGA signals running at 100 MHz.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 12:50:35 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 02, 2016, 05:26:37 pmI feel like the USB scopes could really be players if they had a physical control surface that was similar to a traditional scope. The pro audio industry has done that for many years and it is really nice. Just needs to be a USB physical user interface - with knobs, buttons, indicators, etc. Host PC provides CPU power, display sub system, massive memory and the scope itself only need to be a great front end, A/D, sample memory, trigger system, and the ability to package the data over to the PC. Not a great solution for everyone, but could provide a access to high-end performance and professional usability. The user interface on today's USB scopes is deadly awful.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 01:08:48 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 03, 2016, 12:40:05 amLecroy scopes tend to have more features and capabilities in segmented mode so you might be pleasantly surprised, their obvious downside (a big issue for some) is the Wavesurfer 3000 example here has shared vertical controls.The local support and service is very important, have you tried asking R&S for a demo? I've always been impressed with their service and products but it varies greatly with location. Getting demos is a great way to find out how active the companies are.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 01:23:31 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 03, 2016, 12:40:05 amNote that that 4M becomes 1M with 4 channels enabled and less with the MSO enabled and even lesser with things like reference traces enabled. Don't think segmented recording will help a lot either! A while ago I used segmented recording on my Agilent DSO7104A with 8MPts of memory and getting a lot of data recorded from an I2C bus with enough resolution for decoding to work reliably wasn't easy. In another situation I needed a long trace with detail and that was also an uphill battle needing to select the channels carefully and using single shot captures. All in all I wouldn't buy any of the Keysight MSOX and DSOX scopes!BTW getting a real logic analyser might be a better option since some have high speed timing modes (2Gs/s or more) which makes looking for timing problems easier. Additional to the logic analyser you could get a used scope from Ebay with a high bandwidth (500MHz or more). I think you could end up with a much more usefull combo for way less money. The MSOX4024 with it's 200MHz bandwidth isn't going to cut it when looking at 100MHz signals. They'll look like sine waves. Also probing will become problematic. I could go into more detail but don't want to derail this thread too much.Did you look for R&S and Yokogawa support? Yokogawa used to work together with HP a lot to design various pieces of high end test equipment so I can't imagine Yokogawa has no presence in the US.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 01:25:38 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 03, 2016, 12:50:35 amColin O'Flynn did something like that for the PicoScope:http://colinoflynn.com/2014/01/making-a-usb-hid-keyboard-encoder-board-for-picoscope/#more-424

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 01:27:17 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 03, 2016, 01:23:31 amAre there any you recommend?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 01:43:32 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 03, 2016, 01:27:17 amI'm quite happy with my Tektronix TLA715 and TLA7AA4 acquisition module (8Gs/s 16kpts / 2Gs/s 32Mpts). It is a PC which runs XP and software you can download from Tektronix. It can be remotely controlled from a PC over the network using the native logic analyser so you are not limited to the 800x600 screen. The neat thing about the TLA7AA4 module is that it has 4 analog outputs to which you can route any probe input. Good as new probes (34 channels >3GHz active FET probe) can be found cheap ($50) on Ebay. You can spend as much on the mainframe as you like. I bought my mainframe for around $400 because the hard drive bay was defective, another $150 for the TLA7AA4 module and all in all $200 for probes (excluding shipping). It adds up but not to crazy amounts. I do recommend to buy a known working set though. The only downside is that the software isn't very fast.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 08:02:41 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 03, 2016, 01:23:31 amI cant find any combination of settings that drop below 1Mpts in single capture mode, there are some comedy combinations with all channels running and peak detect capture mode that fall down to 100kpts. But enabling ref channels or maths doesnt drop back the memory depth at any point, unbonding the channels, adding digital channels, or stopping realtime capture all degrade the memory depth by half so you get down to 500kpts worst case with all channels in normal capture realtime.Its all marketing spin but consider the reverse situation of advertising a 1Mpts memory scope that leaves memory unused to avoid ever offering less, then you couldnt capture 2Mpts or 4Mpts captures in ideal conditions.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 10:28:56 am
content: In single capture mode things are better but in normal run mode Keysight scopes use double buffering which halves the memory. Also the memory is shared with the digital (MSO) channels. All of this can be found in the user manual if you dig really deep. It is one of the things which dissapointed me deeply about my Agilent DSO7104A. I got it for a nice price but if I knew in advance the memory was so overspecified I wouldn't have bought it. I really prefer it when manufacturers specify the amount of memory which is always available OR specify the limits clearly in the manual. For example Tektronix has always been very clear about these limits and how memory is shared.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 11:49:29 am
content: I would agree that the x4000 is a bit pricey for what you get. The x3000 would probably do you just as well while leaving some more money left over to put towards other equipment.How useful is MSO? Well i have two MSO scopes and the digital channels stay mostly unused because 4 channels is enough to look at most modern serial buses. However your use case might be different. If you work with boards that have parallel buses or have lots of related digital signals then the MSO feature is very useful. Its kinda like a 2 channel versus 4 channel scope. You rarely use more than 2 channels for every day tasks but on the rarer cases where you do need more its a life saver.If you are buying a scope for home use you might also want to look at some used gear on ebay and such. The older generation of Agilent scopes is not actually that far behind the X series. They have mostly the same features. While you don't get a signal generator and only get 1/10th the waveform updates what you do get is 8Mpts of memory, higher resolution screen and under 10 second boot times, and if you look around you can get a good one for 2 grand.I have a MSO6000 at home while at work there is a MSOx3000 and i feel like i prefer my old 6000.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2016, 05:26:37 pm
content: I just got the MSOX6004A and the MSO part was one of the things I most looked forward to. I previously had a Tek TDS754 4ch scope and used a Saleae and Total Phase Beagle for logic analysis and protocol decoding. What a major fiddly pain in the butt compared to an integrated approach that can trigger on specified data and look at signal integrity all at the same time. I wish I could record long records on the scope, but in general I am looking for specific errors, data ranges, etc. Since the trigger system is so good and flexible - I get what I want within the boundary of the memory. For long sequences - the Saleae still has some use in that it can record very long records. I have not tried it yet, but when the time comes I was thinking about using the Trigger output on the scope to time correlate the Saleae data. Not sure if/when that situation will ever come up - but I will keep the Saleae and Beagle at the ready.At the moment - I am blissfully enjoying the the ease of life with integrated MSO capability. One instrument, one interface. Hard to say what I would do as a hobbyist, but as a small biz, the speed advantage is worth it. If I did not win this scope - I would have purchased an MSO of some type (most likely the MSOX3000T, which is what I was looking at the most)

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 07:13:20 am
content: I've owned a MSOX4054 nearly since Agilent released it, and it has been and still is a good scope. If your considering one 'now' I would seriously look for a used one or ask your agent about a premium used, suggest adding the complete app bundle.The big touchscren screen, even with its low resolution, is great. I can have it way back on the desk and having a onscreen keyboard (or you can plugin a keyboard/mouse...wireless) is so handy when using the LA to label traces or enter values into offsets etc.About the only thing I am disappointed in (apart from the lack of memory) is that the built in AWG does NOT use the external referenceAdding a external reference turns the built in frequency counter into an 8 digit one, so its worth plumbing in if you have a 10Mhz reference OCXO. Being able to built a waveform from a captured trace is extremely handy, despite owning a decent self contained AWG, I use the built one way more than expected because of the convenience.There is definitely better scopes for the money buying new (seriously look at a lecroy), but if you can get it at the right price its still all good. There are no firmware bugs that I'm aware of

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:43:53 pm
content: Other than the larger screen size of the Keysight MSOX4024A versus the MSOX3024T, are there any other significant differences to warrant the $972 higher price? Although the screen on the 4 series is larger, its resolution in pixels per inch is 25% lower than the 3 series. Does that make any difference in usage?And then there's the Tek scopes. I hadn't really looked at these before, but it seems the MSO3024 model is similar to the Keysight MSOX3024T. It has a similar sized screen, but lacks the touch screen capability. It has 10M sample memory versus 4M on the Keysight. The digital channel sample rate is 500 MS/s versus 1.25 GS/s on the Keysight. Other than that, they seem very similar. Would having 10M of sample memory make enough of a difference to choose the Tek over the Keysight?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2016, 05:57:41 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 04, 2016, 05:43:53 pmI wouldn't chose a Tek over a Keysight even if it had 100M memory. Tek made great scopes when they were analog, but their DSOs are in general pretty poor, slow, and tend to lock up when under load.The MDO3k's speciality is a built-in Vector Spectrum Analyzer with mediocre RF performance, but you pretty much get scope and SA in a single unit. If you can live with separate instruments then the same money buys you a better scope and a new entry-level SA (or a 2nd hand big brand SA).