Another DS1052E thread - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 06:00:59 pm
content: So is the DS1052E really the best scope for the price?Looking for a good scope in the $500 range. Im an EE student and i want it to last for my entire studies.

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 06:34:00 pm
content: Unless you are getting into something exotic (very HF, for example), the Rigol is a super scope for any student. Anything you would be doing should easily fall within the 50 or 100 MHz frequency range. It has a descent UI and is reasonably well built, and is quite portable. Another consideration should be a used Tektronix 22XX or 23XX family, analog scope. You can get by for under $ 200. They are bigger, but good performers, reliable and a very good value used. They lack some of the modern cursors and math, but you will likely learn more using them. I still use my older analog scopes 80% of the time, and fire up the digital when I need something more specialized. Remember that the world ran mostly w/o digital scopes until the 1980s, and many things were invented, developed, tested and troubleshot usiny them.paul

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 07:29:43 pm
content: well i have an Tektronix 2225 Oscilloscope but i find it really big i wanted something a bit smaller .. So you are saying that im better off with my Tektronix 2225 Oscilloscope than the rigol one?

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 08:27:27 pm
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 23, 2011, 07:29:43 pmDon't get me wrong, the Rigol is a nice unit. However when I think of students, an extra $500 is usually not in the budget. If you have a 2225 and an extra $500, go for it.paul

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 08:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: tecman on February 23, 2011, 08:27:27 pmso is it worth it? Whats the benefit of the rigol one on top of my yek?

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 09:10:28 pm
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 23, 2011, 08:54:00 pmAdvantages: Cursors with direct readoutAdvanced/Auto setup and triggeringMath functions/FFTStorage, saving to file and printing screen displaysGood for slow eventsDisadvantages: AliasingVertical resolution sometimes limited (jagged)High speed events (pulses, etc) sometimes hard to captureOccasionally changing vert res or horiz time results in a 1 or 2 sec delay for displayBoth analog and digital have their advantages. Really good (and expensive) digitals come close to analogs in most apps. IMO for repetitive signals I still like analog for a number of uses.paul

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2011, 09:21:37 pm
content: The Instek GDS-1062A and the Hantek/Tekway scopes tinhead wrote a lot about appear to be superior scopes to the Rigol DS1xx2E to me, although I haven't seen them in the flesh.Agreed with tecman, an analog scope is superior to a DSO (especially a low-end one) for some work. Noise also tends to be lower in a good analog scope. Keep in mind that those Tektronix analog scopes were professional mid to high-end scopes in their time, the Rigol DSO's have never been anything but low-end scopes for service/education/hobby.Main advantages of DSO in my mind are storage (better at slow sweep speeds, low duty cycle or single shot) and convenience (automated measurements, cursors and saving data to your computer can be very handy).

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 12:36:49 am
content: Lol now wondering if I should get it ...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 01:44:35 am
content: If you only have to have ONE, you'd be foolish not to have the Rigol.Single shot storage capability offered by DSO's is a massive advantage you would not want to be without.Dave.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 02:01:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 24, 2011, 01:44:35 amWell i guess i can keep both of themi just dont use my tek much thats why i was wonderingalso before i purchase the rigol should i look at something else, like another scope? around the same $500 range?also i get it for $359 because of the student discount (http://www.tequipment.net/RigolEDUPromo.html)umm nvm still $399 wonder why they dont give the %10 off :S WTH

author: updatelee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 04:24:58 am
content: I use that long storage mem all the time. Works great for analyzing bursts of data. Like diseqc etc

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 04:55:09 am
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 02:01:17 ami suspect will be the same fate with your newly bought dso.imho, the main thing is whats common to all oscilloscope, ie analyzing circuit, oscillation etc, apart from special/unique differences between brands/models as others mentioned, which i think are just small aspects from what an oscilloscope really is. if you are me, i'll keep the $500, or buy other gear or date a woman etc and put the tek in good use, but then again, you are not meps: memory length is not really my bottleneck in works i've done so far. so i'm still not addicted by it. but its truly a wonderful feature, if... you are really need for it and put it to good use, just as the other additinal features.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:11:55 am
content: The small footprint alone is often a deal clincher.Once you get used to used to just plonking that small DSO anywhere on the bench and moving it around with ease taking it "to the job" rather than brining the job to your scope, it becomes invaluable.Dave.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 12:38:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 24, 2011, 05:11:55 amis $399 the cheapest i can get this from a "US" retailer?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 01:06:33 pm
content: all depends on your budget:if you can spend 1200$ buy Agilent DSOX2002A (800x480 8.5" screen, 50000 wfms/s, 70MHz bw, 2GSs, 100kpts)- and don'T try to hack anythingif you can spend 600$ but Hantek DSO5062B or Tekway DST1062B. They physically same devices,offering more value for money (800x480 7" screen, 2500 wfms/s, 60MHz bw, 1GSs, 1Mpts)- and hack to 200MHz bw is you wish.if you can't spend that "much" money, but a Rigol DS1052E (320x240 5.7" screen, ~800 wfms/s, 50MHz bw, 1GSs, 1Mpts)- and hack to 100MHz bw if you wish.You can of course combine and buy e.g. Rigol + old 100Mhz Analog scope, depends on your needs and desk space.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 01:25:10 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on February 24, 2011, 01:06:33 pmWell i dont mind spending $600 how much better are those (Hantek DSO5062B or Tekway DST1062B) compared with the ds1052E??

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 02:43:47 pm
content: there are some common things for both like available triggers, measure presets (however Hantek/Tekway added some additions in latest fw), csv exports/imports, ref and setups, PASS/FAIL, digital filters, recorder - so let's focus on diffs:- 7" display, on Rigol 5.7"- 800x480 resulution (real resolution, like on Agilent DSOX - not like on ATTEN , UNI-T or Tek DPO2000where 480x234 on 7" screen available)- 16divs with menu on and 19divs with hidden menu instead of 12divs on Rigol- 3 times faster waveform update reducing dead times: 2500 wfms/s where on Rigol ~ 800 wfms/s- in long memory mode with dual channel enabled 400MSs (i believe like on Instek, but never got this confirmed)instead of 250MSs (Rigol)- additional persistency settings (0.2s, 0.4s, 0.8s) to what available on Rigol (1s, 2s, 5s, 10s, infinite)- selectable screen refresh rate (30,40,50 auto), they usefull in cobination of XY or persistency or avg modes.- more math functions (A/B, B/A, A+B, A-B, B-A, AxB) - as i remember Rigol have only A+B, A-B, AxB- on FFT additonally Flaptop and Bartlett windows available on Hantek/Tekway- selectable sample memory 4k, 40k, 512k, 1M(single chan) - on Rigol 8k/16k, Long Mem 512k/1M (dual/single chan)- on Hantek/Tekway a real nice dual window with waveforms (for zoom in/out, scroll, play) or waveform/FFT available- Hantek/Tekway have quick save screenshot on USB button (for lazy ppl)- knobs per channel - nothing shared like on Rigol- very nice shielding on Hantek/Tekway, not that cheap "all in one box" like on Rigol. Probably ppl don't care about,but personally i don't like a switching power supply 5cm above FPGA/memory or µC.On the hardware side input stages are almost the same (however Hantek/Tekway optimized them for higher bw),on the µC side Hantek/Tekway is using faster ARM9 from Samsung (S3C2440) - which explains faster waveform update.On OS level is linux 2.6.13 running giving us of course more possibilietes to change/addsomething (where you can't change anything on Rigol). This is not a real disadvantage ifyou use DSO for measurments only, but is nice to have for hacks - like bw change via UART/linux shell.End of April there will be Ethernet addon available from Hantek/Tekway, however i did designed alreadysimilar module, so not gaps on Ethernet vs. Rigol.The firmware is no (yet) supporting SCPI, no SDK available yet, but Hantek/Rigol are working on it -however to stay faur "not available yet" is disadvantage.Hantek/Tekway have no pass/fail external output - maybe not a big disadvantage for home users,but well it is not there.Hantek/Tekway are real quite, as no Fan inside.I did compared Tekway and Rigol (and Atten/UNI-T) a year ago and decided to use Tekway (later Hantek sharehlders bogh Tekway, so now Tekway and Hantek are producing exact same DSO with different model names and different company logo/enclosure).Other ppl did compared to more professional DSOs, like TDS2000C, TDS3000C, WaveAce - so you can beat with Hantek/Tekway definitely Rigol or WaveAce or TDS2000C (no TDS3000C is comparable, but in my private opinion better even if ppl who did compared think different), some ppl compared to UNI-T CEL series and decided to stay with Tekway/Hantek.For sure i'm Tekway/Hantek enthusiast (so my opinion didn't really matter), but i think theclear visible differences are enough to make a choice.EDIT: are you from US? If so check mortoncontrols.com (Hantek DSO - even with NIST calibration and data), or electrolab.com (Tekway).For sure ebay as always, or goodlucksell, or if you don't care about purchase from europe pinsonne-elektronik.de from Germany or elec3i from France.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 04:06:46 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on February 24, 2011, 02:43:47 pmummm Thinking thinking... any reason i should get the hantek instead of the tekway? or the otherwayaround?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:06:29 pm
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 04:06:46 pmtechnical reason = no , not really, they equal (except issues from dec 2010 - i got some Hantek's with 1% resistors insted of 0.1%, but probably due component market situation)I did noticed that Tekway have better quality BNC connectors, AMP encoders and the buttons are better quality, where Hantek have no name connectors (or well, i wasn't able to match them to any manufacturer) and buttons are bit too hard for me - but that's cosmetic things.For you probably would the best to check what available for what price (and of course what warrranty/addons/whatever).I did forgot one thing, some ppl mentioned a bad display quality (view angle) on Hantek/Tekway DSOs. Actually this isn't true, the display ismounted with 180° rotation ( it is InnoLux AT070TN83 V.1 if you need more tech. info about view angle/contrast) ,so the best view angle is if the display is on same high as your eyes (or higher). There is no real mechanical reason whythe display has been monted like that, so it was probably pure usability decision.For ppl like me who have many devices on wallshelf/workspace shelf above desk they just perfect (display is briliant),for ppl who place them direktly on desk and look "from above" the contrast will be not the best due view angle,but still ok if you change the "angle" by expanding the plastic feet's on the buttom of the DSO.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:11:10 pm
content: still thinking about it not sure if the $200 difference is worth it

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:41:49 pm
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 05:11:10 pmwell, then read firsthttp://www.wikihow.com/Choose-an-Oscilloscopeand then read again what i wrote about the diffs between both.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:44:05 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on February 24, 2011, 05:41:49 pmalso that electrolab.com doesnt work very well... no pricing no way to order it.. any other us retailer selling the tekway?

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:53:49 pm
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 05:44:05 pmyep, i know. Few months ago i saw pricing information on ebay, so you will have probably to ask them directly by phone/email.Afaik no other US Tekway distributors available, for Hantek as already mentioned mortoncontrols.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 05:55:41 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on February 24, 2011, 05:53:49 pmya mortoncontrols looks like a reliable website but since u mentioned that the tekway was better built than the Hantek i was looking for that onealso that electrolab website only gives 90 day warranty..http://electrolab.com/html/services.htmlinstead of the 3 years that hantek givescalled electrolab and they dont have it, nor they have an eta, so i guess ima have to go with the hantek one.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 07:09:03 pm
content: HEHE thinking really hard about buying:https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=450:09e7c0528bc59445a20d5779a968f174

author: armandas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 08:02:42 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on February 24, 2011, 02:43:47 pmHave those settings been added in the later firmware? As far as I can see, Rigol only has two settings (OFF and Infinite), which kind of sucks.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 08:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: armandas on February 24, 2011, 08:02:42 pmdude, to be very honest i did remember Rigol has persistency, but wasn't sure about value and qucik checkedthe manual. But these values i did posted are for the menu peristency ... that's crap you right, there is only OFF and Infinite.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 08:24:47 pm
content: bah purchasedhttps://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=450:09e7c0528bc59445a20d5779a968f174hopefully i wont regret it

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 09:47:06 pm
content: Just looking at what it would take to design what tinhead listed here into the Rigol, my eyeball estimate shows it worth at >= $200.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2608.msg35466#msg35466You can always get more scope for money once the best players in each price range is found, tinhead has been very good showing all of Hantek/Tekway's virtues, and knows the competing products quite well, too. Tinhead's list is very good, Tekway does perform better as he lists but the Rigol 1052E is not too far off in its basic measurement capability considering its between $150 to $250 less than the Tekway [assuming you pay for S&H at some stores]. It thus, comes down to paying more money for those capabilities. Lastly, for US buyers, Rigol US supports the scope locally if you buy it locally in the USA; since the USA price is very close to the Chinese overseas price it not cost effective to buy it overseas. Hantek/ Tekway, does not have a USA rep, IIRC, so your warranty at most is from China.Hantek lists contact folks, but don't know if they will provide support, if you ever need such:http://www.hantek.com.cn/english/contact.aspQuote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 05:11:10 pm

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2011, 12:19:20 am
content: Quote from: saturation on February 24, 2011, 09:47:06 pmoh yeah, of course. It is not that Rigol is bad value for money, this is why i wrote "common on both". The bad scopes are definitely all these UNI-T with upscaled pixels on displays but big logo [ 7" Display ] or Owons where only display size matter ... or even the 7" ATTENs where like on Owon or UNI-T only display is big (on paper only) - but that's different story, that's typical marketing dep. reaction to not lose money because of all those Rigols and Hantek/Tekway competitors (don't forget Instek, but they anway good)Quote from: saturation on February 24, 2011, 09:47:06 pmi would not bet on Rigolna support (sry guys but thats the truth about Rigol in NA), all what they can do is toforward your email to china. The same can be done by mortoncontrols, they located in US and official Hantek partner.Regards the Hantek "partners" listing, this seems to be very outdated anyway.Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 24, 2011, 08:24:47 pmhehe don't care, you can still send it back if you don't like it, they have Rigol DSOs too.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2011, 01:15:13 am
content: so i should get the scope tomorrow.. whats the best way to test it/reviews it? what kind of circuit should i build and then analise?

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2011, 06:32:46 pm
content: Bump

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2011, 07:41:31 pm
content: Rise time & frequency response are the 2 most vital features. Then for each sampling rate, evaluate distortion and aliasing at its maximum frequency response from subsampling.Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 25, 2011, 06:32:46 pm

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2011, 01:37:20 am
content: Quote from: SuperMiguel on February 25, 2011, 01:15:13 ambuild a 555 oscillator (relaxation circuit) or pwm or anything oscillating. there are lot of reference here and the net, even for very fast rise time circuit. if you just want to have fun without building any, just find a transformer connected to main and measure its secondary winding, usually found in ac-dc adapter. yesterday i helped my bro to program his 16f876a, it turned out it has not built in osc so i built simple RC osc for it and curious how the osc looks like, then i figured it out in the ds1052e. not to mention the function/arb generator to buy for the fun. just my 2cnts.

author: SuperMiguel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2011, 09:10:31 am
content: so using my arduino i wanted to create something really fasti wrote this:Code:void setup() {pinMode(13, OUTPUT);}void loop() {digitalWrite(13, HIGH);asm("nop\n");digitalWrite(13, LOW);asm("nop\n");}and got this:http://img140.imageshack.us/i/hantek21.png/why is the image distorted like that? is is because of the probes? if yes where can i buy the 200 MHz ones?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2011, 10:16:50 am
content: maybe your arduino is doing some extra codes behind at some interval resulting in inconsistent square distance. your scope and probe is not the problem.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2011, 12:44:39 pm
content: Yes, we get better tech support from eevblogbut what I mean is product warranty. While it looks like Rigol, and even the other lesser brands, do good manufacturing, quality control in China seems to vary like the seasons, and defects of that sort would fall under warranty repairs ... assuming you didn't hack the scope and brick it!http://www.rigolna.com/warranty/One should also know, Instek warrants their 1062A for 'life', at least say 10 years or so given what life means.Quote from: tinhead on February 25, 2011, 12:19:20 am

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2011, 12:53:19 pm
content: I concur with mecha. Just know Smiguel, that to test your scope, your test gear has to beknown>= quality of the scope, or the artifacts you'll see will confuse you, where is it coming from the source, or the test device?Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 26, 2011, 10:16:50 am