Want to replace NI Circuit Design Suite (Multisim, Ultiboard). - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: perdrix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 03:43:07 pm
content: It's likely that this post probably qualifies as a FAQ.I'm getting rather frustrated with Multisim and to a lesser degree Ultiboard - why?AFAICTthey haven't added a single component to the database in years. And even then they don't have really common parts like 74HC132. Come on guys 74HC logic is still used sure, but we also have 74AC, 74AHC, 74VHC to name but a few.Their Spice models of digital ICs suck - typically all they do is specify the basic function e.g. d_inverter and the propogation delays. All of them switch a 1/2Vcc regardless of part, which these days is just a joke! Never mind the existence of e.g. HCT, just look at the datasheets for many modern 5V supply ICs - many actually switch at 1.8V or 3.3V logic thresholds.Almost as bad they don't include any of the parasitics which can matter lot in faster designsThey can't import many types of SPICE model and not any encrypted SPICE model or any IBIS models.They don't fix bugs for a long time if ever, even if they have acknowldged them.I have a few must have's!Schematic capture AND simulation. I have no wish to export a netlist into a separate simulation package unless for really specialised modellingA component DB that's at least reasonably up to date and is maintained.Choice to simulate digital logic in the brain dead manner as above, or to simulate more accurately.I'd like to be able to drag parts in the PCB layout needing to rip up all the copper and start over - Ultiboard sins somewhat in this area.Foward and backward annotation that is correct - if i do a "gate swap" in the layout SW, I expect the back annotation to change the schematic accordinglyI'd like to choose a part (e.g. NC7WZ04) and them which footprint, and have the ability to change my mind on which footprint.Ability to scale PCB layer printouts with different scale factors on each axis to correct for printer innacuraciesProper variant support so I can design a single board that is "stuffed" differently depending on variant - AFAICT kiCad can't handle thisYour thoughts much appreciated.David

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 04:26:31 pm
content: I think you had better remain with your current software (Multisim & Ultiboard).The closest CAD package to do what you are asking for would be Altium Designer.I moved 3 to 4 years ago from Altium Designer to Diptrace for many reasons, however DipTrace does not do all the things you are asking for.If you really want to swap, pull out your wallet & make sure it has plenty of cash in it. Altium Designer does not come cheap.The other package to look at would be Mentor Expedition.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2018, 04:38:37 pm
content: Yeahhh..budget?I see a lot of newer logic family models for PSPICE and HSPICE. They use encrypted models, and on top of that, probably encrypted licensed modules to run them (BSIM version whatever). Probably because they aren't making simplified behavioral models, but using the legit internal foundry models the parts are built on. NDAs and licenses galore to have any hope of running those.I think any hope of an integrated SCH + PCB package that does these things is nil, at least maybe until you get into enterprise software ($20k+ with shitty licenses you'll always be pulling your hair out over).If you only have Multisim kinds of money, you'll probably be better served learning how to write the SPICE models yourself ("with hookers, and blackjack"). Then you can use anything from Multisim to KiCAD.There's not much purpose for simulating schematic level logic. You'll have much more reliable results in VHDL, and then you might as well tack on a synthesizer, assembler and placer and use an FPGA. You can always view the RTL from the synthesizer, and implement it in discrete, if you must.Tim

author: bandgap
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 03:08:20 am
content: Based on your requirements, you might want to take a look atLabcenter Proteus.

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 10:29:41 pm
content: QuoteGiven you are spice-centric, and have quite a list, the advice in #2 to stay with what you know, may be sound.eg Mentor are fairly strong on the PCB side, but less so on SCH and even less on Spice & libraries.Much of Spice revolves around the librariesKiCad is improving, so it is worth tracking - they added Spice recently, and they have a good Shove router, but their Assembly Variant support is currently only possible via SCH-BOM, not PCB-side, so that means more work to get a variant-content placement file...KiCad gate swap is not native in PCB, but is possible manually in SCH.KiCad has a new [Update PCB from SCH] flow, that skips SCH manual netlist generate & manual import. Seems quite fast, which would assist gate-swap-via-sch.No brick walls, but not seamless either....

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 12:05:31 am
content: Cadence Orcad Professional with PSpice and CIS option.PSpice for simulations, CIS for variant support.