Looking For My First Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Dan9550
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 03:14:58 am
content: Hi everybody,i'm looking to further my electronics hobby and pickup a scope i don't have much of an idea what i need, i basically just want the ability to probe at things ,see waveforms etc and have it spiral out of control from there. i've had a look on ebay and gumtree but pickings are slim. i've come accross a philips pm3070 which looks like it could be a good starting point but i'm not sure if its a good deal in my case.eBay auction: #184053864114Would anyone be able to give me some more hints on what to look for? where else i could be looking?i just want to dip my toes in the water with this and want to also make sure i gett a useful device and not a device that is complete rubbish.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 04:51:25 am
content: What is your approximate location? (as in nearest major city? Don't post your address like the last person I asked that did)I'm guessing somewhere in Australia given that auction? Prices on used gear depend heavily on location, but the general rule of thumb is around $1/MHz for analog scopes, that varies based on factors such as condition, special features, and of course brand. Premium names like Tektronix and HP tend to command premium prices but analog scopes are becoming a niche item considered obsolete by many so there are still bargains to be found.

author: Dan9550
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 05:03:32 am
content: i'm looking in the melbourne, vic, au area

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 05:08:23 am
content: Something I forgot to mention and where I was going with the location thing, shipping can easily end up costing more than the scope is worth, so if you can find something local and collect it in person that's going to be your best bet.Sounds like specs are not super important, you'll probably want at least 50MHz but even 20MHz can get you started if the price is right. At some point you'll probably want something more capable but you'll have a better idea of what you need when that time comes.

author: alkmar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 05:08:50 am
content: Unless you are looking for a "real" analog scope, I would recommend one of the following:Rigol DS1054Z - its a four channels at 50mhz, the new scopes have all of the protocol decodes unlocked. In addition their is a hack "license key generator" which can unlock the scope for 100mhz. They also have the DS1104Z Plus has the ability to add 16 digital.Siglent SDS1104X-E - Its a four channels at 100mhz, with full decodes too. However this scope has the ability to be upgraded to allow for a 16 channel digital probs, in addition to the 4 analog ones.If digital channels are mostly used for if you are analyzing digital circuits, like seeing timing and multiple control signals on a vantage computer (as modern computers are too fast for these scopes). The analog channels are good for understanding if the digital signals are actually formed correctly (analog noise and such), or viewing analog signals.The biggest question is what is the frequency you want to measure? Remember the scope can't see singles faster then its specific sampling rate/freq rating (which are slightly different.)If you don't need a lot of channels, then you can get a faster scope for about the same cost.The ones i mentioned above are well above the price of the eBay auction ($350-$499 USD), but you get ALOT for the increased cost!

author: Dan9550
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 07:11:57 am
content: thanks for the tips guys.i'm probably only going to be measuring things like vintage electronics, arduinos, noise on power supplys at this stage. just whatever i'm curious about so i figure it will be eaasier to find a cheap analog scope for that. the scopes alkmar suggested feel like more of a stage two for me at this stage.in terms of the number of channels i suspect being a beginner two channels would be fine for me. but obviously being able to analyse multiple channels at once has its advantages, what would the usuall use cases for say 4 channels be, probing multiple data buses or something like that?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 02:21:31 pm
content: The Philips is a bit costly, but if it is in working order, that is a plus.I would, as I always do, suggest looking for a "Hamfest" in your area, as there are often cheap working analog Oscilloscopes for sale at these events.It is however, a bit like the "River's" slogan "There may be none, or there may be many".Some years back, the Rigol DSOs were a bargain, but with today's poor exchange rates they are considerably more costly.

author: GerryR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 06:30:16 pm
content: I know it is nice to have a "dedicated" scope, but there are some very capable PC-USB scopes at reasonable prices. For example, the Virtins 2820 'scope also has an internal signal generator, and they can be upgraded for other functions via purchased firmware upgrades. Hantek makes some nice ones as well. Just a thought. The large screen of a laptop is also a plus over the standard 5" o'scope display.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 07:09:41 pm
content: It's almost as expensive as a real scope and it's only 80MHz bandwidth and 200MS/s, IMHO that's not impressive for something that costs over $300.I have an older Bitscope DSO which I never use anymore since getting a standalone DSO and it has reinforced my opinion that PC based test equipment has never really lived up to the promises. I find it extremely cumbersome to have multiple separate devices tethered together, and operating a scope with a touchpad on a laptop is painfully tedious compared to having real knobs and buttons. The savings are marginal at best because these days especially, the display and processor part costs so little that a USB oscilloscope is not much cheaper than a standalone instrument. Given the choice I would gladly pay the extra $100 or so to get a Rigol, Siglent, etc which offers superior specs in a compact standalone instrument that doesn't tie up my PC to use.None of that really matters anyway though since he's looking for an inexpensive older analog scope. This always happens on here, someone asks about getting a ~$100 scope and people start pushing stuff that costs several times their budget, it's like walking into a store with a pushy salesman.

author: GerryR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2019, 10:56:20 pm
content: If he was buying new, then your arguments would be valid, but he is looking for used equipment and the PC based scopes can be had very cheaply used, just like the stand-alone used scopes. I have two very nice analog scopes, and I have a PC-USB based scope, but the OP was looking for some options, and a PC-USB scope is one of those options. I got my PC-USB scope for a little over $100 USD, and it is a scope, spectrum analyzer, multi-meter and signal generator. I don't know why that wouldn't appeal to any beginner. I'm not trying to pressure anyone into anything; just stating some good options. I have no financial interest in whatever the OP buys.

author: ammjy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 01:48:49 am
content: As I know, although unlock the 1054z, 1054z does not working as a 100Mhz.1054z really working as a 100Mhz after unlock ?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 02:10:43 am
content: I just got a Owon VDS1022I from the last Black Friday sales from Aliexpress and it is quite the scope for a beginner. The non-isolated version (VDS1022) is cheaper and probably enough for your beginner stages.The drawback, obviously, is the need to have a PC around. But the software is quite easy to use and very capable.

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 05:08:30 am
content: My first oscilloscope was a similar PM3055. I paid the same price that PM3070 went for, but this is Brazil and such things are expensive here.Go for an analog oscilloscope if you can find one forcheap. There aren't a whole lot of reasons for a beginner not to go for a digital one IMHO. That's not to say that analog scopes aren't useful - I still use mine - but entry-level digital scopes have reached a price point in most of the world where it doesn't make sense not to get one of them instead.A DS1054Z seems like a decent buy.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 07:28:47 am
content: Quote from: Dan9550 on December 02, 2019, 07:11:57 amArduinos. That means digital with its ability to use single mode triggering.QuoteFour channels instead of two makes it more convenient for decoding protocols such as SPI for example. Modern digital scopes, even the budget ones like the Rigol and Siglent models, decode digital buses such as SPI, I2C.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 09:30:19 am
content: Don't forget that, for protocol decoding, an ebay 8 bit Saleae clone USB logic analyser, used with Sigrok Pulseview, is far more capable at decoding than the usual 4 Channel scopes.For a ~$10 outlay, you can have twice as many decode channels, and reduce the number of channels needed on a beginner's scope (to two).Note that a LA isn't a substitute for a scope, it just takes care of your protocol decoding needs.+1 on the Owon (stretch to the 'I') for price-performance and UI.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 04:30:14 pm
content: My main scopes are 4 channel, it's been handy a few times but it's probably once or twice in a year that I use more than two channels at the same time.I also did microcontroller development for years without the convenience of a DSO to do single shot, there are workarounds.Let's keep in mind this is a beginner looking for a first scope, it almost certainly won't be the last scope he ever owns, it's really not too important what he gets to start with so long as it works.