New Win 10 Laptop, best way to lockdown / kill auto  updates - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 03:59:36 pm
content: I was gifted a new DELL 3340 laptop for the winter solstice holiday.It came with Win 10, and its taken me about three hours to break it of it's many bad habits.. Most of which try to turn it into a horrible tablet, which it is not designed to be, It took a good hour to try to get it to stop rotating and zooming the screen based on tilt. ( Hint, Modify settings in Synaptics touch pad, use external mouse to lock Synaptics settings, disable accelerometer in Device Drivers) Killing Cortana took a lot of work, as well.If it does not like my settings, it has an annoying habit of reverting them...So what is the best way to get rid of Auto updates, which have failed twice? I'd like to retain the ability to update the Antivirus database as I've had good luck with MSAV... I do a lot of AV presentations, and their promise to kill Auto Updates for 35 days provided I then let it do its thing strikes me as just plain WRONG, this needs to go forever...Steve

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 04:08:10 pm
content: AFAIK you can't. you can pause updates for 30 days but then you have to do all the updates before being able to pause again.with 10 pro / ultimate / whatever, you can only tell windows to hold from applying big updates, those that will mess with your computer (for example, the creators update 1703 and the fall creators update 1710) but again you gan tell windows update to hold them for up to 365 days after which you are forced to install them

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:05:22 pm
content: This is probably the number 2 biggest problem with Windows 10, right behind all thespyingtelemetry. If it was me, I probably would have already changed the OS to Windows 7

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:27:01 pm
content: I got curious and googled a bit. It seems like you can still actually disable the Windows Update service. This is the same thing I do on Windows 7 and it only takes a minute or so. I only turn it on once a month, the rest of the time it's shutdown. Always seemed kind of dumb to me to have a service running 24/7 when updates are normally only released monthly.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:33:08 pm
content: This is Win 10 Pro Education Edition...I've heard rumors of things like registry edits....When switching to Seven Pro is 3/4ths the cost of this machine, about 175$ locally, I'm hesitant.. All other machines in the house are set up for Seven, and we use exclusively Seven at work for all the obvious reasons. This is the new web surfer machine, so I can reduce wear on my Seven machines...Steve

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:38:54 pm
content: You shouldn't need to mess with the registry just to shut down a service. I don't know how things are arranged on Win 10, but see if you can find the Services applet (services.msc), look for "Windows Update" in the list, right click it and select "Properties", set it to "disabled", then stop the service.edit: On Windows 7 there is something called "Action Center" that will nag you that updates are turned off. Windows 10 probably has it too. You may need to go there and adjust some settings to turn the nagging off.Here is how it looks on Windows 7 (see attached)

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:44:26 pm
content: Disabling auto updates on Win7 was just finding the right file (don't know the name anymore and the machine is unreachable atm), and renaming it. Use process explorer and your brains to locate the updating process, find the executable or dll, stop it, rename the file, reboot and no more updates ...Maybe this works the same way with Win 10.I had to take over ownership as admin before renaming since Windows tried to protect this file from "unauthorized" access by running it as "trusted installer".

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:48:57 pm
content: Install the Enterprise or Embedded version. Or just don’t install Windows 10.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 07:29:09 pm
content: At risk of sounding cliche, you might consider wiping it and installing Linux. If it's going to be the websurfing machine the OS is virtually irrelevant.You could also put Win7 on there yourself and not have to pay for it, it's not too hard to find junked PCs with a valid product key.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 07:42:17 pm
content: The batch files in this post work really well, allowing you to choose when updates are applied, just remember to run them as administrator:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/windows-is-getting-disgusting/msg1122321/#msg1122321Still working on the latest fall creator update.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 07:56:05 pm
content: I run Windows Server 2016, and if you can somehow manage a copy through Imagine or MSDN, I would recommend using that. Cortana is gone, Edge is gone, Windows store is gone, and forced updates are gone. Almost all spying telemetry is gone, and it runs faster than standard Windows 10.Another idea is to wipe it, install Arch Linux, and then just run a Windows VM for anything Wine can't muster.You can also try to hack on an earlier version of Windows like Windows 7 on there, but I do wish you good luck messing with that stuff.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 08:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on December 27, 2017, 03:59:36 pmQuote from: LaserSteve on December 27, 2017, 03:59:36 pmSo, how to kill the update in Win 10?In Win 10 the update kills you.Ontopic:The attached scripts start or stop the update service "wuauserv". They must be run from an elevated (as Administrator) command prompt.

author: DG41WV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:25:09 am
content: you can get windows 10 LTSB. it only gets security updates and doesn't have almost any bloatware. but you'll need a volume license to use it legally

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:21:44 am
content: Quote from: DG41WV on December 28, 2017, 02:25:09 amQuote from: blueskull on December 28, 2017, 02:43:14 amThis it self, means MS admits that the default bloated updates at plain Win 10 version is not secure, or at least there is a chance that it will impact their own OS badly.Personally, I'm looking to dump Win10 my self, starting to consider to run it as guest OS on linux, hopefully with minimal impact on my daily workflow, and also for less painful migration to full linux as workstation OS.Especially after seeing Gnif's work on KVM Virtualization under Linux ->HERE, almost near bare metal performance, and probably I will take leap of faith on that at the planned new Ryzen's 8c platform at this Q1 2018.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:54:05 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 28, 2017, 03:34:46 amWhat ever, my point is, W10 will not be my main and "the only" running OS at my workstation in the future, as I don't not want to be stuck and rely on MS OS.Heck, probably I just let it auto boot periodically with minimal resources like minimum cores and memory just to keep it updated during my migration period, I can live with that, hence currently I'm still considering near future upgrade either on 8c Ryzen or the ThreadRipper if budget allowed.As I said, it will definitely have impact at early stages, and I'm willing to go thru the pain willingly, but with this OS encapsulation convenience, hopefully it will be less painful, thats all.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:31:12 am
content: Could you block Windows update at the network firewall level?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:35:23 am
content: If you run Win10 in a VM you can disable windows update completely then create a restore image, if the machine ever gets infected simply roll back to a clean state.Despite the FUD, I've never personally even seen a home PC get infected via some unpatched exploit. I've cleaned up a lot of malware infections and in every case it was caused by the user installing something sketchy or tricked by a fake antivirus popup. Users are nearly always going to be the weakest link and they're not something you can patch. I've had PCs that were years behind on patches and updates and none of mine have ever been infected. Security through obscurity is not a good tactic for a business but for the average home PC it's unlikely for a hacker to find it behind a NAT.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:42:40 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 28, 2017, 06:39:35 amSo what? If that happens I'll restore from a backup.Why would anyone turn off the firewall? There's one built into every home broadband router on the market, it's transparent, there's no reason to ever turn it off.I've had broadband for ~20 years, never had a system compromised, ever. Nobody I personally know has ever had a system compromised, it just isn't that common and a little basic common sense is all it takes to greatly reduce one's chances.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:14:23 am
content: Wine has been getting better and better every year with more programs and things it can do. It still doesn't run a lot of things, it also does run a lot of things.If you're looking for a distro, I love Arch Linux. The simplistic design and no pre-included crap unless you install it is awesome. Package installation is really about as simple as it can get, and installation isn't all that hard if you can read instructions.I use the MATE desktop, with Docky, and it creates a very concise and efficient desktop experience that is lighter weight and more featured than Windows.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:23:29 am
content: I've tried a lot of different distros and have mostly settled on Ubuntu MATE recently. Of the desktop distros it's one of the best supported and does a very good job at the turnkey just works out of the box experience which is a bit help for anyone who doesn't want to play with the OS.One of the things that has long bothered me about the Linux community is the rampant elitism, that turns off a lot of people and pushes them away. I love the power and flexibility but familiarity and ease of use is hugely important for getting people to try it out. For many years I tried Linux once or twice a year and was often impressed with the progress but always soon ran into something that didn't work and required hours of tinkering before I gave up and booted back into Windows. Only in the last couple of years has it reached a point where I think Linux is very usable, helped by the fact that Windows has regressed and taken on a lot of that crufty half baked circa-2005 open source feel.Even so, try to find a security NVR that works easily in a browser on a Linux machine despite the fact that most of the units themselves run embedded Linux. Hard to believe but here at the end of 2017 there are still loads of things that require Internet Explorer or in some cases Windows only plugins for other browsers. It's absurd but it is what it is.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:40:38 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2017, 06:35:23 amYeah, playing with VM without having multiple snapshots of the previous states is a big mistake, better not playing VM.Also storage space is really cheap nowdays imo.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:41:04 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on December 27, 2017, 05:33:08 pmYou'll need to set a register key to eliminate Telemetry in the editions that allow it, which is true for your edition. That's not as scary as people make it seem, though. Just make a backup of your register first and follow instructions and all will be fine. It's actually not that easy to mess up your computer through the register. People tell each other all sorts of ghost stories.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:45:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2017, 07:23:29 amThat has a different reason. We're currently experiencing a internet revolution. We've made a bloated system that worked, but was incredibly vulnerable because it wasn't properly thought trough and made in a rush.Websites with plugins, java, flash, shockwave and ActiveX were all greatworkaroundsfor what was lacking. Today large effort has been put in astandardfor interactive web content.However, implementing new stuff is expensive thus many applications were still sold with ancient tech. On the internet things of last week are ancient!Since many of these applications do not enjoy updates, they are frozen in time. Around it everything changed, browsers started to refuse plugins. Browsers even start to annoy you with http login forms.Due to all of this the internet has become a much safer and friendly place for all of us. Since the market is forced to change. Most people don't like change, yet change is required to improve.Windows 10 is a perfect example of this. Windows 10 is excellent for consumers. It's more like Apple than ever before. No choice, just work. Microsoft has enormous tech debt, but it makes no sense for the consumer to have this tech debt. Which is why updates are forced, since consumers don't care or know about updates, but still want it to work.We don't like this because we are not in control. We are engineers, we want to be in control of our tools and what we do with it. But we're not with enough to get our version of Windows.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:47:37 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2017, 06:35:23 amI agree with you on the common infection vectors. Most people by far get infected because of their own actions, though it's not unheard of that people get infected otherwise.However, I don't think having an old installation connected to the internet is a good idea. Nowadays, malware is an industry and leaving known vulnerabilities unpatched will mean you might get hit the same way again and again. As soon as a vulnerability is made public, malicious people go to work adding it to their malware suites. The problem is that the low hanging fruit has begun to disappear, so more advanced vectors need to be employed. It's a traditional arms race.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 07:59:11 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2017, 07:23:29 amI laughed a tad here.Yes Linux people do get carried away with the operating systems they love. It can be a bit of a toxic atmosphere for those not initiated.As far as support, Arch Linux is about as supported as you can get, but it's all somewhat elementary as Linux is built in a way where what works for one distro will often work for another. After all, most distros are just collections of packages bundled with a repository and way to update it. Everything else you can switch out and change around, which is really the spirit of Arch Linux. When you install it, you get a command prompt, some basic tools, and nothing much else. I started with installing MATE, installing a graphical login manager, and then building my way up from there until the hours that I spent enjoying setting up my operating system yielded a smooth, and functional environment that is configured to my exact liking.I'd actually suggest Linux Mint MATE (if they still have it) as Ubuntu is a bit of a shaky place for some people. It might be the old elitism kicking in with a more "plebian" distro, but I do have a love for Arch Linux that is replicated by little else.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 10:58:40 am
content: I have Windows 7 and about 6 months ago they did an automatic update. Since then I have to unplug my laptop in order to start it. It absolutely will not start if the power pack is plugged in. If someone told me that story I would not believe them. I've had updates causing things to not work till the next update. Thought someone would complain about this and it would be fixed. The laptop is old and have wanted to get a new one, but have heard all the issues with 10. Sure these issues will all be solved with 11.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 11:34:09 am
content: Quote from: Seekonk on December 28, 2017, 10:58:40 amDid you try doing a refresh or a full reinstall? This isn't a generic Windows 7 issue, it sounds like your specific laptop has damaged software.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 01:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 28, 2017, 07:23:29 amI totally agree. This elitism shows itself in many ways, one of the least helpful is when someone asks how best to paint a wooden fence only to be told you should be switching to dry stone walling.QuoteThat has been precisely my experience of it for the past 20 years. While I use it rather more regularly than once or twice a year, I spend far too many hours of endless rabbit holing, fighting out of date documentation, and hostile unhelpful know-it-all attitudes (e.g., "Why don't you just do x or y" as if the whole process is trivial when you know from experience there's nothing trivial about it).

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 01:54:22 pm
content: The idea behind enabling/disabling the update service is that it puts you back in control. Obviously, it wouldn't be a good idea to turn it off permanently.Microsoft generally releases updates on a regular schedule. Once a month turn the service on, let it update, then set it back to disabled. You can pin the services.msc applet to the Start menu or make a desktop shortcut. It takes me less than 30 seconds to change the setting.There are actually quite a few services that run by default that I have no use for and turn off immediately after any fresh install.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:44:42 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on December 28, 2017, 01:54:22 pmEach time I did that, it was a terrible experience because either- the update succeeded, but also reverted most of my settings which is very frustrating, modified previously existing functionality in various annoying ways, introduces new bugs and unwanted "features"- the update failed and need to revert it, or- the update failed horrible and leads to a non booting PC.Recovering, restoring my settings and circumvent the new grand and totally unwanted "features" took me so many hours that after a while I simply give up, and completely shut down any updates.For my use case, the updates were the ones creating real problems, not the bugs or the attackers.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:03:22 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on December 28, 2017, 02:44:42 pmSounds like you are using Windows 10.Windows 7 seems to work better, and you can choose what types of updates to install. I only install security updates. I don't care if daylight savings time changes in some remote part of the world I never heard of, and I never let Windows update device drivers.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:10:05 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on December 28, 2017, 03:03:22 pmWindows 7 is showing its age and nearing the end. Windows 10 is going to happen, like it or not. If you insist, go for Windows 8.1.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:29:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 28, 2017, 03:10:05 pmI've switched to Linux except for the PC I play games on. The change has been pretty painless. Switching the games PC to Windows 8.1 might be a good idea though. Windows 10 simply has way too many drawbacks and I don't see any effort being made by Microsoft to improve things. I do plan to get a copy for... experimentation.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 05:55:49 pm
content: I downloaded a copy of Windows 8.1 from Microsoft. I'll give it a look when I get a chance. I can buy a computer with Windows 10 Pro just to experiment with for about $100 (Lenovo refurb from Newegg). I might just do that.Anybody stuck with Windows 10 that absolutely hates it should investigate downgrading. I thought Microsoft did away with downgrade rights but apparently it still applies to many editions of Windows 10.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on December 28, 2017, 05:55:49 pmSo if I get Windows 10 through commercial licensing, I can downgrade to Windows 95? Cool.I'll keep an eye on this thread. I'm not really familiar with any Windows newer than XP, but I do keep coming across people wanting advice re upgrading to Windows 10.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:46:16 pm
content: To play devil's advocate, why would you want to kill auto updates?If it's a production machine that's mission critical it probably shouldn't have access to the internet.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 09:12:44 pm
content: Multiple threads on disabling the ONE BEST THING you can do to avoid malware infections. Meanwhile, I've up to 5 Windows 10 machines in teh house and I just let them do their thing.Keep in mind that a brand new out of the box machine, if it's anything like the new laptop I got from work, will be missing the HUGE Fall Creator Update. That one DOES reset a lof of the settings, but it by no means does it in any sort of sneaky fashion - after that update it walks you tthrough the settings again.I also just set up a brand new consumer machine that came with Windows 10 Home which they got to give as a present. The only thing tedious about it was the relative slowness of the plain old spinny hard drive - all my machines have SSDs. And as a budget machine (complete laptop under $299 USD) it only had 4GB RAM, plus the budget wifi chipset seemed like it could only connect a G speeds to my router. So it took a LONG time to update and prepare.I have Cortona disabled on all my machines. It stays off. Only the Creator Update, if you glossed through all the security and privacy settings, turned it back on.I have to laugh at the Microsoft hate over background updates. All you Google lovers have had this since long before Windows 10, with CHrome updating itself whenever they felt like pushing a new one. The latest updates to Windows 10 have tweaked this process quite a bit, I can snooze updates as long as I want, and on my primary machine it has figured out quite reliably now what is a time when I'm truly not using the machine as I will wake up in the morning and find a login prompt since updates were installed. Not that this is much use on a laptop which tends to not be left on 24/7 but rather the update and a few minute's delay than a malware infection that would have been avoided by the update I was "too busy" to install last week.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 09:41:45 pm
content: Quote from: Pack34 on December 28, 2017, 06:46:16 pmIn my experience, the last two months' Windows updates have contained shit components that either regress functionality or just fail to install in even non-edge cases. Bear in mind each update has 100s of components that you can no longer easily segregate or make a value judgement on. Both have taken man days to diagnose, repair, regress and track.This scenario used to happen once every couple of years to me in Enterprise environments, which shows the level of concern MS have over QA nowadays. It's also a hidden cost of increasingly agile development more recently in the form of DevOps, or, in the words of a well-known Aussie, "She'll be right".

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 05:53:53 pm
content: Every time I see this "agile development" and "scrum" crap and look at what it actually means - I realize I did that more than 20 years ago. Though we did plenty of testing - first the developers in the development system, then actual end users in a dedicated testing system before anything was released to production. But our 3 man development team functioned exactly like all these descriptions of Agile Development, we just didn't call it that. Same with many other 'new' terms in the field - they are just new words to describe the way things are done, not new ways of doing things. I guess the academics in their ivory towers need to do SOMETHING to feel like they are making a contribution. Got to make sure those CIOs have some new buzzwords now and then so they can sound far more important that they actually are. And so they can fool the hiring side of the board that they are far more knowledgeable than they actually are by throwing out all the latest buzzwords.

author: marcus_cdn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 08:37:08 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on December 27, 2017, 05:33:08 pmHi all!@SteveIf it's only used to surf the web, it's not worth all the work.If Win10 gives you that much trouble, it isn't the right OS for you, disabling auto-updates isn't the solution, you need the updates (security). I migrated from WinXP toward Ubuntu 16.04LTS to get rid of bloated Win7, 8 etc.; it works very well & you can choose a "flavor" to fill your taste. You could dual-boot your laptop, and use Win or Linux.Use a previous version of Windows ONLY if it's still supported. An option would be: some refurbishing centers will sell, let's say a Dell computer w/Win7 or 8 with a valid user key, essential for updates.Bits of info:- You can't use a user key from another computer, it's associated to that unit upon registration.- The best AV is 18 inches behind the keyboard.Best of luck!

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 08:39:48 pm
content: Disabling the BITS service will prevent automatic updates from working."Websites with plugins, java, flash, shockwave and ActiveX were all great workarounds for what was lacking."Definitely remove Java if present, and disable the Flash and Acrobat plugins. (The Acrobat plugin isn't necessary for Acrobat to work, but it creates a huge security hole.) No modern website uses Java, outside of a few specialist apps from Cisco or VMWare.You might also like to try oursoftware policy add-on. This makes it much harder for malicious actors to launch executables. Unlike the Group Policy feature of the same name, you can turn it on or off instantly from a system tray icon.Cortana: Definitely a job for the likes of 'D' or Buffy. (I hear that 'D' is expensive, mind you.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 10:04:21 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on December 29, 2017, 08:39:48 pmReally? I didn't know that but it figures. Windows is a very convoluted OS. Try turning off Windows Event Log sometime (I keep it turned off most of the time, have no use for logs) All kinds of unrelated stuff will stop working (defrag for one).

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 03:36:37 am
content: BITS is Background Intelligent Transfer Service - the entire mechanism by which Windows Updates actually works.Things that write log entries likely fail if the logging service is disabled. Just leave it on and set the log size small if you're that worried about some disk space. Or just used SSDs, you don't defrag them anyway

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 06:28:04 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on December 28, 2017, 09:12:44 pmThe frequent updates are precisely what I hate so much about Google, and the single most irritating thing about the OS on my iPhone, I absolutely loathe updates that change anything about the UI or feature set without me deliberately making a decision to upgrade. I get tired of that lame old argument that because I hate what Microsoft is doing I must be totally cool with Google/Apple/whoever doing it. No, I'm not, and just because Google and Apple behave like arrogant twats doesn't make it ok for Microsoft to do the same thing. It's worse because I expect that kind of arrogance and lack of control from Google and Apple but Windows historically has been all about flexibility. Now Microsoft has started copying all the worst stuff from its rivals and missing the polish and painless "just works" aspect that Apple gets right.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 09:49:59 am
content: I have a checklist that's a couple of pages long for when I install Windows 7 so I can quickly get it set the way I like it. An OS that changed the user interface or added more useless features every six months would drive me crazy. One of the first things I do to a new Windows install is turn off all the useless "features", IE, media player, everything. I have two things that need .NET, but everything else goes.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 05:03:22 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on December 30, 2017, 09:49:59 amIt sounds like slipstreaming an iso or a few scripts might help you save some time.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2017, 12:20:06 am
content: Since when does Apple install updates without asking? Neither my iPhone nor my iPad have ever installed an update without notifying me and giving me the opportunity to install immediately or ask again later. I don't use anything with OS X so who knows what they do there.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2017, 01:46:27 am
content: I have been blocking pretty much every MS IP at the router, along with a few others. That appears to have stopped all the telemetry and updates. The PC is back to basically being just another lab tool.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/windows-10-creators-update-1703/msg1321908/#msg1321908

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2017, 05:55:30 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on December 31, 2017, 01:46:27 amI do the opposite. I block all Windows machines (physical and virtual) from any outside world access and grant only by exception and temporarily. I was astonished at how much quicker Autodesk products were when every lookup returned a 404 rather than actually calling home. Windows 10 leaves some whiny event logs, but other than that it's all smooth. In theory they could tunnel via dns requests (I used to do that to get around the UAE firewall) but they haven't evolved that far yet.

author: GreggD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 05:09:52 pm
content: Using Win-10 ProAfter a unwanted update taking all my INTERNET bandwidth while I wanted it. I went to stopping the Service 5-6 times a day.I ran (Disable Updates.cmd) as admin. Worked well until the 5 day mark when I saw wuauserv (the update service) start up. Ran Disable Updates.cmd and the service stopped. The pc has been up with no reboots for a few weeks.I have blocked some MS things in the Hosts file. Much bypasses the Hosts file and my ATT router does not support user "adjusted" firewall.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 12:34:06 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on December 31, 2017, 12:20:06 amI haven't had it install, but I have had it auto-download and nag me incessantly. My last iPhone was only 8GB and ran iOS6, still my favorite version of iOS by a long shot. When iOS7 came out it auto downloaded, consuming some 1.3GB of the paltry 8GB space and it wouldn't let me delete the download. It nagged me occasionally and displayed a red notification badge on the Settings icon for the next 4 years until I retired it. My current iPhone SE has 10.something, it has the hideously ugly flat UI but whatever, it does work well but it auto downloaded the iOS11 update 3 times. Now it lets me delete it but until I blocked the Apple update server on my router it kept downloading automatically with no option to prevent it. I hate these updates, inevitably the device runs slower and things get changed around. When I buy a device I want it to stay the way it was out of the box until the point where I may decide a new version of something offers a compelling advantage. If you don't update, you can keep the same phone for 4-5 years and it works fine, I suspect that's why all these companies are so keen on everybody updating.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 01:14:35 am
content: One of the things with Windows 10 is if you do not do the regular version updates, the current Windows 10 end-of-life will be well before the Windows 7 End of life.The first release of Windows 10 (1507) is no longer supported - it is dead. Version 1511 should have died October 2017, but because of issues of certain big customers, the life has been extended until April 2018. The release from February last year is due to end March 2018 - so it will probably die before 1511.The latest release 1703 will die September 2018.This will probably continue until late 2020 when there will be a last release of Windows 10 that will be supported with updates until 2025.In 2020, there will probably be an offer to move over to a new subscription-based Windows - maybe 12 months for free. Not sure what the new Windows in 2020 will be like, but you know Microsoft will want to make it as hard as possible to keep using Windows 10 after 2020.Microsoft has started to synchronise Windows updates with Office365 updates and Microsoft datacenter software updates, so this looks like they are preparing for a coordinated subscription model that will probably offer Windows + Office365 at a price not hugely more expensive then getting Office365.So come 2021, the real choice will probably be to use Office365 and the new subscription Windows, or give up on Microsoft Office and consider another operating system. For people who say "I have to use Microsoft Office", there will probably be little real choice.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 01:27:13 am
content: At work I use Office 365 (because I have to) on Linux and it works fine. Mostly just for Outlook and the rare spreadsheet that doesn't work properly in Libre Office. I have a company issued Win10 laptop which I use as little as possible, occasionally I can use it to take notes or present something in a meeting if it's not busy updating but after dealing with it for more than a year I still hate it. I've never used an operating system that felt so openly user-hostile.At home I'm using Windows 7 on most of my PCs, update has been completely disabled for a couple years now. I'll keep using Win7 for as long as possible, if it becomes unusable I'll switch to Linux and run some version of Windows in a VM if I really need to. I don't fully grasp where Microsoft is trying to go in attempting to deprecate the "legacy" Windows software. That legacy software is the whole reason for using Windows in the first place. If I were to migrate away from traditional desktop software then I wouldn't need Windows in the first place. It seems Microsoft is doing their best to kill their bread & butter and become irrelevant.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 02:08:39 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 03, 2018, 01:27:13 amI think Microsoft are working towards killing Windows in the next decade, but it can be in a way that actually makes it much better.Here is my guess. Windows will be replaced by a new O/S which I will call "Window Frame". It will be a very lean O/S that only runs containers - it can be less then 1G in size, and will be very easy for Microsoft to safely update. They could mix container and virtual machine technology.Programs will no longer run directly in the O/S - they will run in containers which I will call "Glass Panels" or just "Panels". Why this can be good is that all that would be required to run an obsolete program is extra compatibility panels that support the DLL's of the era of that program. In theory, this could allow programs back to Windows 1.0 to run, but in practice, Microsoft probably doesn't want to go back too far - perhaps back to Windows XP, or maybe they start at Windows 10 compatibility.A system like make managing compatibility vastly easier, updates are easier and much mode efficient and also it means an installed program can be seamlessly transferred between computers or the cloud. Moving to a new PC will new longer be even slightly traumatic. Backing up an installation is also massively easier due to the way containers work. A system that has 1TByte of programs and games may only need 10GBytes of storage to totally back up if most of the container blocks making up that 1TByte are already stored on the Internet. Basically, you would only have to backup content you are personally generating.Windows is an end-of-line product. It is an obsolete approach. It will not be here in 2030.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 02:19:39 am
content: But at that point what do I need Microsoft for at all? I run Windows because I have a fair amount of software that requires it, as well as decades of knowledge around using and troubleshooting Windows, not because I particularly like it or Microsoft. If I have to start all over with a clean slate why would I choose Microsoft and once again lock myself into that ecosystem from a company notorious for abusing customers, bullying competitors and abandoning entire product lines when I can choose from a multitude of free and/or open source solutions? If Microsoft succeeds in killing Windows then they will have succeeded in killing my only reason for using Microsoft anything.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 02:31:30 am
content: That is a good question that only you can answer.The thing is if Microsoft can get the technology I described right, then to users it may seem like they are running Windows. Container technology works right now but it is far too raw for most end users to touch. If Microsoft can hide the technology behind a fabulously polished layer, then the results can seem magical to people used to current O/S's.The whole point is that with current O/S's, you do have to invest a massive amount of time into "learning" the O/S. The next step will be to try and eliminate that need, and at the same time, give something far more robust and data efficient.

author: HumbleDeer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 03:01:42 am
content: I have personally solved it with a combination of selective updating, registry edits, disabling things in the service panel and disabling tasks in the Task Scheduler. Look for Tasks > Microsoft > Windows > UpdateOrchestrator. It could possibly be in some other directory, but the destination will always be the Orchestrator directory. Delete (!) or disable the tasks Restart and Update. Restart disables the automatically enabled restarts.Some people have reported that disabling scheduled restarts does jack-nothing and that it just re-enables itself. Deleting it did it for me. Restart, and bob's your uncle!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 04:18:25 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on December 27, 2017, 07:56:05 pmThis is an interesting option, how does it perform and any compatibility problems with desktop applications (non games) ? As I don't game, it will be desktop OS, none for server role.Also other considerations may be apart from the cost of course.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 12:21:41 am
content: Quote from: amspire on January 03, 2018, 02:31:30 amNo, that is a question that Microsoft needs to answer. Remember that I'm the customer, they need to cater to me and convince me that I need their products, not the other way around. They should be focused on my needs and making software flexible enough to conform to those needs. Instead they seem focused on their needs and are demanding the customer be flexible to meet that.Every piece of Microsoft software that I use is a "legacy" application. Really the only thing anymore besides Windows itself is Office 2003 and that's only because I already own a legal copy and I'm familiar with it. At work Libre Office works just fine for my needs and the more trendy companies are using cloud (yuck) based productivity software, the advantage of which is the OS is irrelevant.What keeps me on Windows is a combination of familiarity (which MS has thrown out starting with Win8) and a shrinking but still significant number of legacy applications that are Windows only. Without either of those things I have no need for anything Microsoft and that is significant because I once relied on a whole selection of their products on a daily basis. I actually *liked* Microsoft and many of their products and used them by choice. That is no longer the case.