What ICs are used in this rocket? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 07:14:06 pm
content: Hi,The space rocket that just launched to the moon...https://youtu.be/y2AslDDnk0EWhat ICs are used on this for processors? Atmel? Or they use FPGA only?Also, what Power Supply control ICs are used?, eg, Analog.com , or they use vicorpower modules?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 07:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on May 03, 2024, 07:14:06 pmYou seriously expect anyone here to know what make of ICs or power modules are used in a Chinese Lunar probe?Troll.Edit: Preserved OP original post.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 08:09:06 pm
content: this one is a little light on the effort put in by topic starterthere is like, a billion different space electronics solutions that are usable in space, depending on requirement. its probobly as cheap as possible, because its not a military satelliteso you want someone to write an entire time line of how electronics changed since the apollo missions.......https://semiconductors.teledyne-e2v.com/en/products/space-grade-solutions/space-grade-processors-modules-memories/https://www.frontgrade.com/products/space-grade-fpgashttps://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20080015740/downloads/20080015740.pdfhttps://www.analog.com/en/signals/thought-leadership/challenges-for-electronic-circuits-in-space-applications.htmlthere that should answer your questions

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 08:30:29 pm
content: They use space age technology.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 08:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on May 03, 2024, 08:09:06 pmRegrettably, it is typical of the effort.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 09:24:45 pm
content: I think the OP is trying to get into the space industry, and of course trying to figure out why China is gonna win this industry as well as with power supplies.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 09:45:22 pm
content: Watch CuriousMarc channel, they often post on (at least vintage) space electronics teardowns and repair.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 09:51:06 pm
content: For anyone who is curious as to the answer rather than just with Faringdon being a troll.Radiation-hardened FPGAs and microcontrollers/SoCs most likely if they are "old space".Or they could be using consumer devices with higher tolerance to single event upsets which is the SpaceX ("new space") approach - reasonably normal computers (they use x86 Intel processors of one kind or another) but with much redundancy and self-checking. See here:https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/9243/what-computer-and-software-is-used-by-the-falcon-9

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 10:43:58 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on May 03, 2024, 08:30:29 pmAnd aircraft aluminum. Billet only, of course.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:15:12 am
content: It's all noodle logic.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:26:07 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on May 03, 2024, 09:51:06 pmThat thread seems to imply that radiation hardened ICs and large scale redundancy are alternatives, but that's not really true. The two have usually been combined to achieve acceptable results.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:27:53 am
content: Quote from: soldar on May 04, 2024, 11:15:12 amSo everything digital from Italy uses spaghetti logicAnd the USA has burger logic

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 11:31:41 am
content: Quote from: soldar on May 04, 2024, 11:15:12 amand all the best noodles are now made in Taiwan.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 12:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on May 04, 2024, 11:26:07 amThe OP already has a thread on hardened semiconductors, discrete vs IC etc...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/discrete-smps-have-any-advantages/Quite why he wants to know the manufacturers of the silicon in this particular rocket is beyond me. Ed: Whether they use Vicor power modules, even more so.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 02:49:59 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on May 04, 2024, 11:15:12 amSometimes it also usesstructural noodles,but payload and deltaV suffers...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 03:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 04, 2024, 12:15:11 pmThe second question would be preparation for a crusade against Chinese/foreign/whatever PSU manufacturers.A cynic might think it is just a troll, or so that he has yet another post to (uncritically) thank. The word "egoboo" springs to mind, albeit a rather twisted variant.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 03:54:45 pm
content: Thanks, most of the Chinese Power Supplies ive worked on, had chips like UCC38C43 or Fairchild chips in them.The only Chinese ICs i saw were the ON/OFF controlled type offline flyback ones.Or do the Chinese have their own speciality power supply control ICs?, but they don't make them sellable to the world outside of China?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 05:22:41 pm
content: Considering OP's"friend"was apparently illegally selling semiconductors to the commies - and now he's asking what semi's are going into commie rockets?We're being trolled yet againI have to conclude he's working for 'em.Quote from: Faringdon on May 04, 2024, 03:54:45 pmNow you're asking us again about stuff the commies have? All your "schematics" use Linear Tech parts - the most expensive in the business.Did you finish yourdrone-makingstartup? Hint: china makes all the major components - rare-earth PM motors, cameras, batteries etc.Plan your next trip to Shenzhen already.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 05:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on May 04, 2024, 03:54:45 pmPresumably they don't use the "offline flyback ones" because they don't have a long enough mains lead. They clearly lack your design skills, you should offer your services.

author: Coordonnée_chromatique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 06:14:32 pm
content: Hello,https://science.nasa.gov/mission/mars-2020-perseverance/rover-components/You should click on the "BRAINS" link.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2024, 10:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on May 04, 2024, 11:26:07 amRight, but the approach SpaceX take is to tolerate SEUs in the downstream computers and correct them at the engine/controller level with much cheaper hardware which can be adequately radiation hardened without increasing the cost of the avionics too much.Whereas the approach for "old space" might be to use rad-hard hardware everywhere and design for minimum fault occurrence. See for instance the Space Shuttle computers, which were quintuple redundant (two could be lost with mission still OK to proceed; three with normal landing parameters; and four with a safe landing still possible) but these were also radiation-tolerant systems with much slower, older process geometry. Practically everything on the craft will have been rad-hardened because "that's just how you do it".

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 08:37:45 am
content: Quote from: EPAIII on May 04, 2024, 10:43:58 amNot aluminium, Chinesium. At first glance it looks exactly like aluminium and is priced as such, but then once the return window has closed you find out it doesn't conduct electricity and dissolves in seawater.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 10:27:55 am
content: QuoteThanks, so do the Chinese have these kind of speciality power supply control chips like the Analog.com ones, and the ti.com ones etc etc?..but they just dont sell them to the rest of the world?..or..So you are saying they only make the "big stuff"?, like the motors etc?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 10:52:54 am
content: Quote from: Faringdon on May 05, 2024, 10:27:55 amThey do - plenty of PSU ICs available on LCSC, they're just harder to find due to LCSC's poor parametric search and the datasheets being in Chinese.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 11:04:20 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 05, 2024, 10:52:54 amYou can also see this in action sometimes when disassembling different generations of Chinese-made electronics, older versions will have recognisable parts in them, then they'll start sprouting vaguely-similar Chinese equivalents with minimal info available, and finally completely alien parts with no info available. It's a bit like the SF movie/story Screamers / Second Variety which starts out with known devices and then over time they become more and more alien.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 11:29:41 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on May 04, 2024, 05:22:41 pmYour repeated use of "commies" sounds rather silly and outdated to me.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2024, 01:00:05 pm
content: Hi,QuoteSo , appreciating you mightnt be able to read Chinese datasheets, do the Chinese have an equivalent of eg the UCC28070 Dual interleaved PFC controller?UCC28070https://www.ti.com/product/UCC28070Or the Chinese have an equivalent of the LT8705 "Buck or Boost" controller?https://www.analog.com/en/products/lt8705.html..Which magically transitions from bucking to boosting and VV, whenever the vin and vout so dictate.Or the magical high side gate driver by Infineonhttps://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-1ED31xxMC12H-_1ED-X3_Compact-DataSheet-v01_10-EN.pdf?fileId=5546d46277fc7439017802de09e5671d....So do the Chinese have this kind of wonderful bootsrappable hi side, HV gate driver, which is wonderful for offline Bridges etc....and are these devices, if they exist, for sale in the EU/USA/Aus/Jpn/West?Or do all the Chinese's internal PSU's (for sale only inside China) use software controlled Power supply control chips?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2024, 02:15:38 am
content: Quote from: Faringdon on May 05, 2024, 01:00:05 pmI've been to the electronics markets in China.It's safe to say that, counterfeits notwithstanding, Chinese government has ready access to the same commercial component inventory as Western electronics manufacturers.In other words, there are no export restrictions on China. Iran and North Korea are very different export situations. Iran and NK will rely heavily on third parties to ship restricted electronics.