Altium free /low-end version - poll - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2014, 09:15:38 am
content: It looks like the new Altium free/low-cost package is tied to online saving only.Details in other thread.

author: Nobody2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2014, 02:37:22 pm
content: Damn. Somehow the wrong answer got selected and I can't change it?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2014, 04:05:01 pm
content: If you want a poll to be unbiased, leave out everything after the "yes," "no," and "maybe." I could think one thing but disagree with your "helpful" explanations.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2014, 04:41:55 pm
content: #1 means 'with no useful download', right? I wouldn't mind saving to the cloud if I can get the data back in a useful format.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2014, 06:34:01 pm
content: i voted #3: Only if there was a reasonable cost upgrade path to standalone operation, but.... learning from altium history i suspect there will be no "reasonable cost" for me, hence theoritically, it should get back to #1... No, not even for free, I wouldn' invest time learning something with this limitation.... to be more precise.... i would not invest time even 1 second on cloud based saving if there is no reasonable path to local saving standalone based... and they must quote the price even before i try, esp this cloud based. for standalone option i may try and download, if its good then i'll ask for quotation (i did this with alitum trial as well but the price surely unreasonable for me). this is my rule, no matter whats the name they are, not just "Altium".

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 02:12:37 am
content: The moment you save something on a cloud it is not yours anymore.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 02:16:13 am
content: Yep, I think this poll isn't set up right, the options are kinda conflicting and biased.In any case the result is already split down the middle. Half won't touch it, half would consider it. Half is probably a good enough market share.

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 03:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 16, 2014, 02:16:13 amRight now, bias aside, >80% won't touch it if there isn't at least a paid option for external files.So if they're running with the cloud-only plan, that's <20% of the market remaining before they start. Some of those might try it out and not like the cloud aspect after using it. And even if they don't mind that, they still need to be convinced to switch from what they're using now. Any friction with other aspects of the package (component libraries, etc.) and that comes down some more.Is 10%-20% enough for them? It seems like a lot of effort to go to, when they could do something truly disruptive that appeals to the *whole* market.Making an unpopular push into some new business model is the sort of thing you might get away with if you're the current market leader and/or you have some kind of monopoly. It doesn't feel like the kind of thing you should do if you're trying to steal market away from existing products that do things in a way people already like.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 06:35:06 pm
content: That 80% figure is not indicative of general populace whatsoever. If I'm wrong, cite your source, and the source cannot be this forum alone. Say that you pulled that out of the air or provide a source for the information. If you think this poll is providing you credible data in any way you are incorrect. Polls necessarily approximate results, and the phrasing of the questions and responses must be neutral to even hope to approach a semi-accurate result.We're a group of highly vocal individuals and we're susceptible to "group think" here, which may or may not follow through to our decisions outside this forum. What we say in here doesn't always match our behavior "out there."I don't think that many will care that the files live online. They won't even be managed as files, most likely; the project or library as a whole will be online, and individual files won't be exposed. You'll work on the project, you'll share the project, you'll make the library public or private, etc.I would posit that most of us would care a lot more about getting the job done, and a lot less about the technical implementation of the tools used. If I am an independent contractor doing work for money, and the contract does not mandate a tool, then the tool I use will have no bearing on my paycheck. Things that have little or no bearing on the paycheck will not be huge factors in the decision on the tool to use.Even hobbyists just want to get the project done, using tools they are comfortable with. I don't see how cloud storage has anything to do with this at all,Altium: make the tool easy and pleasant to use and you'll see adoption rise. Simple as that.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 07:56:03 pm
content: my problem with saving in the cloud is that i can't work offline. like on an airplane , or anywhere else where i don't have network connection.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 09:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 16, 2014, 07:56:03 pmThere is discussion that you may be able to "hold" the file by shutting Windows down in "Hibernate mode".But I for one have lost interest in this proposed version & I suspect that 90% of Eagle users have too.I just see it as another "Fail" on Altium's part.Am I surprised? Based on Altium's direction this past 10 to 14 years, no I'm not surprised. Sort of expected really.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 10:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 16, 2014, 07:56:03 pmThat's hard to say, unless you have the alpha/beta, too. Even GMail can run offline, in a browser. Full windows apps can pretty much do anything they like in terms of local caching.My point is that cloud-only doesn't necessarily mean online-only.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2014, 05:16:39 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on September 16, 2014, 09:44:36 pmprobably some MBA dickhead who has no idea about CAD/CAM has come up with the idea

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2014, 09:52:20 pm
content: Yes let's get our MBA heads out of our asses and stick them in the clouds!'The cloud' is nice for online backups (if you dare) and sharing data but that's about it.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 01:57:17 am
content: There's more than that, it's a service. Not a big differentiation to an individual, but to a group or to a division, paying for services can make a lot more sense than running them fully in-house.The cloud exists because the market has dictated a need for it, and a very significant willingness to pay for those services. Doesn't matter much what you, or I, or anyone else thinks.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 02:30:55 am
content: Repeat from the other thread before I saw the poll topic:Cloud only storage shows they still don't have a clue about the market they think they are going for.It's standard practice to share your eagle files with people in the open hardware, maker, arduino communities so that they can take your design and make it better, change the form factor, maybe swap a part, take out feature they don't want etc. and then ship that new board off to oshpark or whoever to get some made.Only being able to share gerbers will NOT cut it, people will just go back to eagle or kicad after being asked a few times for the "eagle files please".They are welcome to go all cloud and think they have a genius marketing buzzword but the reality is it will cause them to totally miss their target market.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2014, 02:45:13 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on September 16, 2014, 07:56:03 pmthat's my major hobbyist gripe.

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 09:59:05 pm
content: For what it's worth, I think there WILL be a local copy of the files. As a programmer myself I wouldn't think there would be a decent desktop application that wouldn't keep local copies of uploaded files. Even more so while my files have the additional importance of being intellectual work of some kind. My major concern is the privacy of my work. I wouldn't want anyone to have access to my work without my consent. If this requirement is guarantied I wouldn't mind to have my personal projects in the cloud. Google has all my emails for more than 5 years and nothing terribly wrong has happened. And even if they told me that my projects will be hosted for 10 years and then will be lost I wouldn't mind because I could save the gerber files and maybe screenshots of the schematic or whatever. Having the opportunity to work with a world-class application and learn how to use it instead of having to deal with Kicad bugs is a no-brainer to me. Right now in Kicad I have to create almost all the parts that I want, I have to double-check or modify all transistor, mosfet and regulator footprints, I have to connect with a line all vias if I want to do via stitching, I have to manually adjust the text size and weight of all the parts on a board and whenever I refresh the netlist my changes are lost and every unnamed net get's renamed so my track width rules don't apply anymore.Hell yeah, cloud storage is fine by me! Just my 2c

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 10:25:24 pm
content: They are calling it Circuit Maker.I have an old version of software called Circuit Maker 2000 with Trax Maker 2000 PCB design, didn't Altium buy this software or owned it or something? I know it disappeared pretty quickly!Coincidence or just going back to old names?

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 11:15:41 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 19, 2014, 10:25:24 pmYou can find a history lesson here:Quote from: DerekG on September 17, 2014, 06:02:25 am

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 10:25:56 pm
content: Yes, I know the history I have them, but why are they bringing back the old names?Plus the screenshot of the GUI reminds me that of AutoTrax 2020.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2014, 09:55:21 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 20, 2014, 10:25:56 pmMe too. I'm wondering if the bugs in AutoTRAX DEX 2020 have not been fixed this year because Iliya Kovac (the Developer of AutoTRAX) has now been employed by Altium.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 03:15:22 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 20, 2014, 10:25:56 pmWhy not bring back the old name? It's just sitting there unused, and they probably already have it trademarked. Maybe it was just the best name available to them. Maybe it was easier to reuse an old product name. Who knows? More importantly, who cares? A name is a name and nothing more.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 06:58:06 am
content: This poll is void since it's been established that:QuoteFrom:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/free-altium-is-coming/msg517246/#msg5172464 layers 10cm square (True area) for $29 USD annually seems like a bargain as well. (free 2 layers I would think)I'm actually looking forward to this.

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 07:30:08 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 22, 2014, 06:58:06 amNot sure that files being 'cached' entirely satisfies everyone's concerns. I'm very much still on the fence until I see how it works in practice. There was also mention of other features/requirements that imply offline use will be crippled. I'm following this with great interest but I'm not getting too excited yet.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 07:51:01 am
content: The premise of the poll:QuoteYou might have other concerns, but they re not part of this poll.

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 09:05:08 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 22, 2014, 07:51:01 amLocal caching is not the same as local saving. It could have local caching and yet still only save to the cloud. The extent to which this allows offline working is unknown at this point. Does it allow me to load up the software while on a plane, do a few hours of work with intermediate backups, etc.? Or does it only ensure that I don't lose all my work if my connection drops in the middle of some edits? We don't know the answer to that yet, AFAIK. Knowing it has some form of cache doesn't change anything for me because I was assuming they would have to do that anyway unless the whole thing was basically server-side.It's pretty clear that the intent of this poll was at least partially to see whether or not people would accept a package that didn't allow (or have seriously restricted) offline usage, whatever the specific wording. Playing semantics doesn't make a difference to how usable the software ultimately is.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 03:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on September 22, 2014, 03:15:22 amMaybe, I have a feeling they are using the name to make it more hobbyist than anything.

author: dboyer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 03:38:59 pm
content: Quote from: nixfu on September 18, 2014, 02:30:55 amI would beverysurprised if they aren't trying to leverage the cloud to help facilitate OSH-type designing. If they were smart they would try and capture the github-less HW crowd by providing a nice interface for sharing and working together on project.But then again, this is Altium....

author: AndreasF
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 08:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: dboyer on September 22, 2014, 03:38:59 pmMy impression from their website is that they try to do exactly this.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 11:00:21 am
content: The bugs are being fixed and I do not work for Altium.See...http://kov.com/downloadFiles/WhatsNew.pdfI am informed you worked for Altium, is that correct?

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 01:27:30 am
content: If I can't save my design on my USB stick, then I don't own it. I don't mind the thing being clouded or OSHW but not being able to use it offline is really a hindrance.I would even buy a dongle if that enables me to use it offline (but it has to be one of those very short ones).

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 05:51:13 am
content: Ownership and possession aren't coupled like this anymore. Possession is not "9/10ths of the law" in terms of intellectual property.Ownership, in situations like this, are determined ENTIRELY by the legal agreement all involved parties agree to, such as the end user license agreement.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 06:37:25 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 19, 2014, 05:51:13 amOwnership doesn't give you a think if somebody else controls it, in this case Altium. They can pull the plug on you anytime and you loose access to the source files and the ability to make changes.I started recently to use tinkercad, it's a real cloud based 3D modeling tool. By 'real' I mean it runs in a browser (with amazing 3d rendering performance, at least under Chrome), OS agnostic, and does not require software installation. However if/when they will pull the plug on me, I cannot modify my designs anymore.CM seems to have the worst of both world, the plug can be pull any moment like a cloud app and it requires software installation and is OS specific.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 10:54:24 pm
content: That's defined (well, it can be defined) in the same agreements I spoke of before.I've used services that went under or who included steps to recover data at account closure or termination of the service overall.Blanket statements one way or another about the fate of files that live solely on the CircuitMaker cloud is baseless until those service agreements are written and/or released to us.You may be right. I don't know. We'll see.Will the files be owned by the creator entirely? Maybe, if a clause is included that grants Altium a nonexclusive right to store and distribute the creations in accordance with the licence(s) that may be specified by the creator. Who knows? It will probably be part of a beta tester's role to help Altium determine this.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 19, 2014, 10:54:24 pmEven if you will get the source files when the well pull the plug, they will be useless without software that can understand them.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:40:53 am
content: Quote from: Iliya on October 17, 2014, 11:00:21 amAFAIK, I am the only one on this forum who has worked for Altium.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:43:19 am
content: Quote from: zapta on October 20, 2014, 01:28:53 amEh you don't read hackaday do you? Just a day or two ago someone posted their reverse engineering efforts on the Altium Designer schematic file format. Stands to reason that the library and layout files won't be far behind for a talented person.So you're simultaneously saying that closed source is bad, cloud-only is bad, and that open source is bad, because you'll be stuck with a closed format forever.It's starting to sound like you're just arguing for argument's sake, not because you have any particular thoughts on the matter. Please clarify what your position is if I'm wrong about that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:54:49 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 01:43:19 amIf you are talking about this:http://hackaday.io/project/3149-reverse-engineering-design-file-formatsThen it's quite public knowledge that person is none other than a former top Altium programmer, indeed, a former Associate Director, now working for SupplyFrame/HackAdayMy bet is that SupplyFrame want to read Altuim files, and this public documented Chinese wall-like reverse engineering effort is a way to avoid any legal entanglement caused by him being a former employee.Supply Frame now have several former Altium people.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:57:23 am
content: IMHO, if they are going after Eagle users they are making a big mistake with the cloud bit.How do I use this on the subway or bus with no internet access?Well, I will just use Eagle I guess.... and not bother learning a new thing.My head is already full of useless information.Just my 0.02 cents.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:59:11 am
content: Quote from: LoyalServant on October 20, 2014, 01:57:23 amDo you use Eagle on the train or bus with no internet connectivity? I've ridden a hell of a lot of public transport and I've not seen a single person EVER do any kind of CAD work while on a plane, train, or automobile.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:02:08 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 01:59:11 amChris and I talked about this on a recent Amp Hour show. We both came to the conclusion that it's quite unproductive to do serious CAD work on a plane or train.You are better off finding other easier stuff to work on during that time so you can be more productive.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:03:40 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 01:59:11 amTechnically no.I have actually used Eagle while my wife drove the car.Same thing applies, and yes I could use a hotspot but it's an extra step at the moment.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:03:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2014, 02:02:08 amMy point exactly. Thank you.It will be discovered by many soon that the cloud dependence really isn't that big of a deal, really.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:28:09 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 02:03:42 amReally?Scroll up and see 60% of the poll voters think otherwise.Online use, offline use is not the only issue.Many parts of the world where the internet is abysmal, then cloud dependence could be a real issue.This often equates to a time of the day one needs the "net", and then who would want to use a package that might function at snails pace or be restricted to certain time of the day they "can" use it.BTDT and other than a "stand alone" package is not for me.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:29:07 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 02:03:42 amWell not that many because as this poll shows there are only 4% definitely and 6% maybe will use it.Cloud dependence is a huge deal not because an internet connection is required to do work but because the other end of the connection provided by Altium is required for you to do work and access any work you have ever done.Feel free to carry on missing the point, someone has to make up that 4%.Oh, I'm sure if they pull the plug on CircuitMaker they will offer you a small discount on Altium Designer to let you get your work out of their jail.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:32:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2014, 02:02:08 amI don't think transport is the ideal place for something like PCB layout, but its where I do a lot of my best problem solving. That means my schematics and software source code typically move on in important ways while I am travelling.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:40:48 am
content: Quote from: Rufus on October 20, 2014, 02:29:07 amThis is one worry.Another worry is....<WARNING: SPECULATION>All the "free stuff" they have access to on their servers... who owns it?</WARNING: SPECULATION>As a previous poster mentioned... if I can't put it on my flash drive.. it's not mine.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:47:11 am
content: The legal agreements presented when installing the software will define who owns what. Not a gut feeling.Many put windows or MacOS on their PCs. It is present on their hard drives, and their optical media or thumb drives.Do they own it?Nope.Even if you have Linux installed, you don't own it. You're licensed to use it. Some of it is GPL, some is MIT, some is LGPL, etc. All LICENSES for use. Licenses which can be revoked at any time. You don't even own Linux when you install it on the PC you own.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:53:56 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 20, 2014, 02:28:09 amYeah, really.You don't know it now, is all. A loaded, biased poll indicates EXACTLY NOTHING.I predict, that many of us are, in reality, just trying to get things done, and don't care a great deal about nonsense like what is being discussed here. If the tool helps us get our jobs done more quickly or more effectively, then we'll use it, after an appropriate amount of hemming and hawing.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 03:09:26 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 02:53:56 amThis one we can agree on.. just because of the nature of people to say they will not use/buy X product and then do it anyway.Saw that one just this past week... coworker would not go back to a particular filling station because of "bad service".Several days later spotted same coworker at said filling station.I am sure Mike's question will have a margin of error.Some of the people here that voted in the "no I won't use it" category will probably try it at a minimum at least.I am in that boat.. I may just try it just to see what it's about but I don't like the cloud so im not a potential customer for Altium.And I am sure we can agree to disagree on the other points regarding the cloud.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 04:06:36 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 01:43:19 amYou are saying it, not me. I am saying that Altium created an artificial dependency on their servers and they can pull the plug on their users on a whim or by default and even if you will get your source files they will be useless. This is not the case with their competitors where the software will keep functioning.Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 01:43:19 amIf you will ask more politely I will be happy to explain it to you.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 04:14:35 am
content: I thought that was pretty polite. Certainly pretty high on the list of "least antagonistic requests for information I've made on this forum."I will say that I respect you, after seeing all your LIN work.You don't have to answer. I don't need an answer.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 05:22:47 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 02:47:11 amThe legal agreement isn't worth the electrons it is made from. Because the contract relation is asymmetric.First, Altium lawyers are going to write it. It will be heavily tilted in the direction that Altium can do whatever they want, and a user has almost no rights.Second, even if a user thinks the license grants some rights, many users won't have the money to go after Altium to enforce their rights. On the other hand, Altium has the money to take a user to court over it.If Altium decides to delete "your" stuff in the cloud they can pretty much do that any time without having to face legal consequences from a bunch of makers and hobbyists. Completely independent of what lies their lawyers wrote into the license, or what their marketing clowns are claiming. Hey, an accident in the data center, the storage server breaking down, no backups (because no contractual obligation to have them), and everything is gone. Sorry guys, shit happens. You want a refund? Not more than you paid for CM, here are your 0 ct.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 05:28:03 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on October 20, 2014, 02:47:11 amThere are two points I would like to pick out of earlier discussions and explain my point of view on them:1. Ownership2. OfflineUnless I am plain wrong, you live in the US, I live in Finland. I can assure you, the OS I buy and install on my machine belongs to me. Even if the license to use the software expires, I can do "whatever the hell" I want with the bits in my private home. Don't get me wrong - I understand your point but I do not agree in this case. EULAs are different in other parts of the world because laws are different. You seem to know much more about legal issues involving ownership / IP than me, but I would like to point out that discussions like these (about who owns what) are usually very heated between EU / US due to this difference. We've seen it in other threads about hacking oscilloscopes, apparently a NO-NO in the US while in Germany it is yours to fiddle with it. (and lose warranty and what not in the process)It does not make sense to me to argue about Altium's software while looking at All those GPL, MIT and other license agreements since they are not what is used for the software. I have not seen the actual EULA on their webpage for this coming software but I have not really been trying to find it!About the offline thing:I don't like how it is assumed that people's arguments against online use are moot. I never said I was going to do serious CAD in a bus or train (but maybe train, it's almost a 2 hour ride to work one direction) and we actually do have pretty good broadband or WiFi in the long distance trains, at least here in Finland. The place where I like to do CAD at home has no internet access. I chose to do that due to various reasons: I don't want the internet to distract me, I don't want that particular machine connected to the internet. I don't want to end up in a situation where I want to do layout work but the damn internet is down (I assume that it means I cannot use the software properly when offline?)Those are things that I would have to consider when using this new software and they are of course personal reasons. I'm looking forward to giving it a try though since it is new and exciting and Altium's attempt to get into this part of the market. If I purchase the software and know that the intention is to share the design files in the cloud then me "as hobbyist/private user" may not really mind it, but if I disagree with this philosophy then I'd better not buy the product (heh, it's free is it? Nvm).One thing is certain though, if I can't save the files and use my offline computer to access the files whenever I want (= in 5 or 10 years) then it is not the kind of software I would use.Microsoft Office works quite well with this OneDrive cloud thing, you can use a web client from wherever you are and use Word or Excel etc. The files are in your cloud drive but also local on your home PC. You also don't have to use the cloud, i.e. files I don't want in the cloud will not be there.EDIT: Bored@Work reminded me of World of Warcraft (an online game with subscription, you spend time to develop an avatar that you do not "own"). You can't use the service during maintenance and when something goes wrong and the data is gone, you get a wet hand shake and a pat on the back. Of course they do what they can in order to restore data (they want the subscription of course) but here the EULA and the game model actually very much state that when the lights go out, you have nothing but fond memories of pixels.

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 06:01:55 am
content: In addition to Neganur's points, I'd like to also point out that the licenses mentioned (MIT, GPL, etc.) *cannot* be 'revoked' on a whim. Or at all.