Opel Corsa D ECU Repair - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 12:17:03 pm
content: Hi, i'm trying to repair the ECU of my 2008 Corsa D. The problem of the car is basically a very rough idle, like it only runs on 3 or 2 cylinders. This ecu is well know of suffering from water ingress due to the poor location right under the windscreen scuttle panel, BUT in my case since it was previously sealed (because i've already replaced it years ago) it was absolutely dry inside with absolutely no oxidation. So, after 5 different mechanics checked injectors, fuel pump, egr valve, etc. they all told me that the problem is in the ECU.So i opened and started some very basic checks as i don' t have fancy test gears, just a multimeter. The injectors are driven by 8 STB60NF06 mosfet, which are all fine. Then i've measured the gate voltages and found that in two of them are 0.50V and when the car shakes the voltage drop to 0.30 - 0.40V and then returns to 0.50, but is very unstable. The gate voltages of the other mosfet is 0.60 and are much stable, although a little jumpy too. Now those voltages are obviously the low side output of a MC33883DW H-bridge driver and there are two of them: one for the first 4 mosfet and another for the other 4. So in conclusion the low sides of one MC33883DW outputs an unstable 0.50V, while the low sides output of the other MC33883DW has a much stable 0.60V. Is it enough to call one MC33883DW bad? Or should I check something else? This IC is also very rare to find, if not impossible so can you suggest me an alternative?

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 12:46:52 pm
content: ...another ecu from trash with same problems, maybe even worse. No, thanks I don't want to spend another € 600,00 for nothing. plus the working principle of those h bridge driver should be well known to some forum members and yes, i don't want aliexpress shit on my car, so i need some compatible part, but before that i need to know if the driver could be bad based on my measurements

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 01:22:48 pm
content: What a DMM shows you is of course the average voltage, and in reality the gates are driven with square wave of a few volts peak but fairly low duty cycle, hence the average is low. The voltage that you see is likely to vary depending on engine RPM and throttle.There is definitely something suspicious about your observation, although with this kind of control systems you can never know if the signal is getting lost somewhere along the way or perhaps the controller itself generates a weird signal for some weird reason. I'm not familiar with ECUs enough to tell what's the more likely scenario here.You could similarly measure average voltage at the inputs of the drivers - if the inputs are constant, but the outputs change, and the engine struggles when the outputs get weird, that would point towards a problem with the driver. Either the IC or maybe some support components around it, like capacitors.

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 02:54:13 pm
content: thanks magik, i have also suspected bad caps, but those are super small smd ceramics with no values on it, and of course without schematic it's impossible to determine their values. also is very unlikely that those caps are critical. regarding the inputs, i've measured them also and there is a small difference between the goods and the bads of around 6mV, i think not enough to cause issues, but correct me if i'm wrong. the inputs goes straight inside a custom microcontroller (by magneti marelli), so if this is shot i can throw the ecu in the bin. what do you think, should i try one of those driver from ali? i'm quite shure that they are all fake and honestly i'm not confident to drive with such an important component ready to fail. is there a compatible drive that i can try?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 03:41:01 pm
content: To be honest, I have only ever taken apart one (old and primitive) ECU and the injectors were all wired together to 12V on one end and individually switched to ground by a single transistor per injector. So I'm not sure why there are 8 FETs and H-bridge drivers on yours. Can you post a schematic of this injector drive circuit with measured voltages written on it?6mV may or may not be a big difference, depending on whether it's 600mV vs 606mV or 6mV vs 12mV. Also, are these voltages very precisely equal on "good" cylinders or is this magnitude of variation normal between them?If a custom MCU is braindead then yeah, into the bin the whole thing goes. But the MCU could be generating unusual control signals due to wrong data from sensors, or faults in some sensor input circuitry, or even correct data from sensors indicating legitimate problems caused by something else (maybe even those gate drivers, or FETs). Are there any sort of sensors which are per-cylinder? Perhaps some crankshaft angle sensor?Does the ECU support computer diagnostics? Was this tried? Any errors reported?

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 05:05:35 pm
content: yes, it supports diagnosis and it throws all sorts of errors about injectors, which have replaced, tested and coded into the ecu. before injector replacement the car stalled completely on time and didn' t turn on. no sensors on injectors afaik

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 05:14:09 pm
content: Datasheet:https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MC33883.pdf

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 06:06:16 pm
content: There are companies, in the UK at least, whose entire business is repairing automotive ECUs (of all kinds, abs etc.), I would be surprised if there wasn't at least one in Italy. Garages (except franchised dealers, obviously!) use these all the time as an alternative to the customer paying potentially thousands for a brand new one from the car manufacturer. They have the large amounts of equipment necessary to simulate an engine, all of it's sensors, actuators, injectors etc. together with the appropriate rework facilities.I'm sorry to say that from reading the thread, I don't think you have the equipment level or experience to repair one of these. I'm just being realistic. These repair companies are unlikely to accept an ECU that has been tampered with, you could probably simply say that you opened it to check for water ingress. This path will at least result in you keeping your own ECU with any relevant codings, safely re-sealed, and the repair will include a warranty, not something you will get from a scrap yard or aliexpress.If you can't find any obviously cracked solder joints or components by visual inspectionaloneunder a magnifier, I would send the ECU to one of these companies. If they find the board is covered in meter probe marks, they probably won't touch it.

author: minifloat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:00:22 pm
content: My wife had a Corsa D. Same symptoms as described. The ignition coil was the culprit. During the 160000km / 100000mi it went through the factory-original and two replacement ign coils. As you already said, water ingress and thus corrosion has been the problem.br, mf

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:10:57 pm
content: Are you sure you are not looking at the throttle actuators rather than the injectors?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/need-replacement-for-an-obsolete-mosfetcomponent/msg4415851/#msg4415851

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: digik on June 18, 2023, 12:17:03 pmThat often translates to "We can't think of anything else"If the engine is running OK except idling I doubt it's your injector drivers, more likely a sensor reading somewhere (which granted still could be the ECU). Also I heard that Vauxhall/Opels were notorious for EGR valves sticking which resulted in rough idling... you could try blanking it off completely as a test.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:39:18 pm
content: Quote from: digik on June 18, 2023, 05:05:35 pmUnderstanding reported errors should be the first step. I don't know how human readable, standardized or well-documented ECU diagnostics are, but try to get maximum possible information out of them. Hopefully more is possible than just "lots of errors of all sorts".Example: in the ECU I repaired, I was told by the mechanic that it complained something about "wrong injector voltage". This was fairly quickly traced to a defective power switching relay with excessive contact resistance.

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 08:04:38 pm
content: not only at idling: it goes also rough at high speed, like if it runs at 3 cylinders.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 09:19:26 pm
content: @digik, could we see a photo of the PCB?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 09:22:40 pm
content: Do you think it's definitely a fueling and not ignition or even other mechanical issue?You'll need an oscilloscope if you want to see the waveforms.If you suspect fueling and this isn't a timed EFI, you can try swapping the signals between injectors to see if the dead cylinder moves.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 10:00:22 pm
content: Really cheap oscilloscope that would probably be enough to check all waveforms in your car (min sensitiviti 20 mV/div):https://aliexpress.com/i/1005004972406356.html(Probably you should get the model with probe and battery)

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 05:30:44 am
content: One quick check with a DMM that could still be made is to measure the LR voltage of the suspect chip, since you say that it's the low side channels which behave weird.Gyro also has a valid point - the more you mess with it, the more chance of screwing something by accident. There may very well exist people repairing such things for a living in your area, they will have all the test equipment and experience, they will hopefully repair it quickly and without unnecessary collateral damage.

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 09:41:02 am
content: This model has the all in one coil pack , i would deff swap that as a test, known failure point. for the SA model they actually swap it out for individual ones and a second loom to fit the original harness.darkspr1te

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 10:51:07 am
content: Quote from: magic on June 19, 2023, 05:30:44 amWhy the LR voltage? for what is used? the datasheet just says that is the output of a linear regulator

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 09:26:30 am
content: Carefully study the block diagram on page 3 of the datasheet

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 09:57:25 am
content: Quote from: fzabkar on June 18, 2023, 07:10:57 pmI agree, I have never seen injectors driven by an H bridge, they typically have a single low side driver. The H bridge that the OP is looking at is far more likely to be for the throttle actuator.

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 12:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: magic on June 20, 2023, 09:26:30 amYeah, sorryQuote from: mikerj on June 20, 2023, 09:57:25 amThen why the car is shacking at idle when the gas pedal is not pressed?My throttle body sould be like this:so an entire H bridge only for this sh*t?

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 12:40:40 pm
content: This is the back of the ECU with 3 MC33883. Note thatthis is NOT my actual ECU, but an identical one, just to give you an idea. This one has water damage, mine NOT!The front side:

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 12:57:59 pm
content: My Corsa D also got the ignition coils replaced. Apparently this is a known issue that the car gets very rough on idle.I trust my mechanic with that, i do not remember how much that cost, but the repair was definitely not "ECU Replacement" expensive.

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 01:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on June 20, 2023, 12:57:59 pmApparently on this car EVERYTHING can cause a rough idle.I've already spent € 500,00 and the car is worse than ever. No mechanic has solved the problem and I won't give anyone a cent again.The car is really a piece of garbage engineering, a mix of FIAT parts put together by some drunk engineers.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2023, 06:25:45 am
content: Do you have a pinout for the connector?

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2023, 07:31:17 am
content: unfortunately no, but i will try to draw one this weekend if I have time. At the moment I need the car to go to work. I now have the doubt for the throttle actuator, altough 8 mosfets just for that seem a bit wastefully. I need to better trace all the wires, a very time consuming job :'(

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2023, 09:10:28 am
content: Does it have upstream/downstream O2 sensors, have you done OBD2 reading of fuel trims, sensors while it's running rough ?Watch Pine Hollow auto diagnostics or Diagnose-dan episodes to get a idea of how too use fuel trims/o2 sensors and a generic obd2 reader to find the real fault, it's the same tricks I use in the trade.The mains ones i use when looking for rough running is fuel trims and o2, when things get funny then I also look at carbon purge/environmental pollution controls like egr, tank purge, vacuum system and then I look at more individual items like TPS values , throttle signals and what's know as "drive time events" , a really good example of drive time event is on the 2A-FE toyota engine when fitted in a rav4 has system that activates fuel tank vapor purge five mins into driving give or take on temps, so you will not get the rough running issue it causes if the vent valve does not close right because it happens only after 5 mins of travel, just idling up to temp wont work the vehicle has to drive for that time anyway that when you get a rough idle in gear and it will go away just by cycling the engine and then you have another 5 mins of good running until the issue re-appears , solution was to replace/clean the vent valve (tiny 2 mm plastic plunger was dirty and would stick when hot). Toyota themselves said engine needed rebuild as compression was low etc etc etc dealer parts cannon. In my house I wont rule a part out until i can see it mis-behaving and for that obd data+ oscilloscope/volt meter and actually see the figures coming from the sensors will tell you a lot.Another example is my brothers Isuzu trooper , usual story - running rough, poor start , diagnosis was engine re-build +new fuel pump and that solved nothing , i got involved and with a simple Wideband O2 sensor saw the lean status of the system all the time, removing the EGR system in it's completeness fixed the issue as it was clogged up and would not close so at all times has exhaust gasses fed back into the engine causing other issues like fouling, costly mistake, first they blamed the fuel pump so that was rebuilt which sorta improved the black smoke but now we also had white puffs on let off, at this point I did mention the well known EGR issues and all involved said no it's engine issues but compression is fine so rebuild went ahead and nothing changed. remove EGR and bingo , it running fine.So i would advise checking of vacuum system, any egr/emissions controls as well, blame can often lie with them as they are very much theoretical devices and not as tested as the rest of the vehicle itself, many cars also have differing emission controls depending on area & age so one system might be well tested in one area but another area has something different and it's untested or just plain problematic.As far as to what type of OBD2 reader you need well thats up to you on your spending, ones like iCarly do have good support and are medium priced or you could get a generic ELM327 clone for peanuts and learn the elm/obd2 pid crap to pull individual pid's out of the system, personally I ended up writing a lot of my own diagnostics system because typing 2112 every two seconds to get a pid of fuel trims on toyota became old quick and OBD2 system for Jap toyota are never cheap so writing my own code was only route for me.One thing i will also mention about parts swapping and Mechanics, Most dont ever know that in some cases when you swap a part then it has to be coded in to the ECU in someway, be it the injectors on v8 landcruiser or ignition barrel on opel corsa A/B to the TPS on a nissan SR20 engine, if not programmed then the system may assume failure mode or similar and end result is"New part who dis" and ecu wont know what to do, in the case of nissan TPS it will just go into limp mode and assume TPS based on air values despite the unit functionally fine. Another is toyota K112/113/114 series gearboxes , they have to be programmed using factory tool or they wont shift crisp and act and feel broken despite all it does is "calibrate pressure pump" which is a CAN pressure sensor inside the CVT gearbox.Also my last note, New parts dont always work so never rule out a fresh part just because its new, even good manufacture's will often send a batch of known problem products out as they know that less than 50% will get returned anyway so they still shift inventory , I wonder how many cars out there are rotting due to the owner giving up on that last part which came brand new and faulty but the owners just had enough all because of a companies' bottom line comes first policy.Anyway, hope some of my rant helps you. feel free to ask any Questions , i've been rebuilding car electrics for years and often work on modern and old alike from just wires and fuses to full ecu rebuilds like my Fun car, 1995 suzuki Vitara, did full re-cap and it really improved the running of the vehicle and then swapping the coil drivers out for lower signal output to then in turn run a modern Coil igniter for modded vehicles I was able to really boost spark voltage and also move over to coil on pack and low ohm spark plugs , as not so simple change but has really boosted the stock cars behavior so much that another zuki fan (Rhinopower ) and myself have spoken about making a conversion kit available, right now we just have a forum written guide on the process.darkspr1te

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2023, 09:40:45 am
content: Here is some additional info for those who stumble here for such.OBD pinouts, important read as it states which pins you connect to to talk to ecu/PDM/Body control/security and in what protocol - k-line ,KKL, CAN etchttps://pinoutguide.com/CarElectronics/opel_car_obd_ii_pinout.shtmlelectrical harness routing and some diagrams for Corsa Model Dhttps://vauxhall.7zap.com/no/car/s07/p/9/Opel Bosch ECU to OBD port pin outshttps://dokumen.tips/documents/opel-ecu-wiring-manual.html?page=1Opel ECU security code calculatorhttp://blog.vvdishop.com/calculate-pin-code-for-opel-corsa-d-bcm-by-vvdi-prog/Opel Corsa EGR valve replacement and visual stuffhttps://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/spare-parts/opel/exhaust-gas-recirculation-valve/corsa-d.htmlthread on how a missing pressure relief valve /ecu swap and needed software update to function correctly[size=78%]https://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/threads/corsa-d-diesel-no-starter.841055/page-6TIS2000 and GlobalTIS Opel software for diagnostics, "re-programming" and updating of software models on Opel vehicleshttp://blog.obdexpress.co.uk/2018/08/15/global-tis-vs-tis2000-tis2000-wins-in-programming/Hope these Helpdarkspr1te

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2023, 10:50:09 am
content: awesome, thanks!

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 01:53:22 pm
content: hi guys, here i'm back again. first of all i confirm that the h bridge driver is actually driving the injectors (i have finally found some pinout diagram), BUT after some further research i found that there is a mosfet vnd7nv04 that has absolutely no drain voltage at all (pin 2). i can measure 0.20-0.30v at the gate (pin 1) but nothing at the pin 2. the pin 3 is grounded. based on my pinout the drain is connected straight to "solenoid valve - fuel metering" whatever that means. but the mosfet is not shorted, nor gets hot during operation. i didn't desoldered yet, but i measured about 3.50 kohm between gate to source and vice-versa, while the other two vnd7nv04, connected to other circuits not only do have a 13v out at drain, but they measure open from gate to source and vice versa. can it be that this mosfet is bad?

author: Vicus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 03:04:25 pm
content: You need a scope to measure the high and the low side of the injectors.

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 03:24:34 pm
content: At the top right corner of the ‚front side‘, is that only sealant or corrosion from moisture?

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 04:43:19 pm
content: no corrosion whatsoever. the pictures are not mine, they are just for reference

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 04:44:17 pm
content: but what about post 30?

author: minifloat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2023, 11:04:32 pm
content: Another cause for *very* rough idle can be the crankcase ventilation. Also observed once between the ignition coil swaps I mentioned before.The speedo lights were all blinking like a Christmas tree. Root cause was a marten (animal) visit, while the car was parked for a few days away from home.br, mf

author: digik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 08:52:32 am
content: Oh no! I have looked closer to the pinout and the pin corresponding to the drain of that mosfet is labeled as "signal ground" so i guess is normal to have 0V? what a disappointment