Curiosity has landed - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mattwarne
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 05:45:44 am
content: I cant beleve that they made it.Hats off to NASA

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 06:16:37 am
content: Alexander.

author: PeteInTexas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 06:46:27 am
content: NASA needs better PR. "Seven minutes of terror"?! After 9/11, the bloody "Dark Knight" premier, and yesterdays Sikh temple massacre...??! Its very insensitive, who ever came up with it.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 07:05:06 am
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on August 06, 2012, 06:46:27 amWith the exception of September 11, the NASA film was produced and released before any of these events. Also, the whole thing is completely unrelated to any of these events, and hence the connection is nonsensical.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 07:31:35 am
content: For those interested, the MSL mast cameras are far more advanced than previous missions.They are proper colour cameras (no more false color images) and can also do 720p video at up to 10fps.And there's two of them for 3D and other applications.They also have a rotating filter wheel for selecting various frequency ranges and bandpass blocks.http://msl-scicorner.jpl.nasa.gov/Instruments/Mastcam/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 10:34:17 am
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on August 06, 2012, 06:46:27 amRubbish.You can't just stop using a common term that's been used forever because some totally unrelated event happened.Thelackof PR spin on the name, shows you how level headed and sensible these folk are, instead of being stupidly hyped up by all the continued government fear talk about the "war on terror" et.alDave.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 11:57:33 am
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on August 06, 2012, 06:46:27 amBefore good old George bought the trademark on it, that word was actually a legitimate word meaning extreme fear. Seems like the right word for throwing a vehicle at a planet at 21,000 kilometres an hour as far as I'm concerned!

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 12:25:07 pm
content: High res photo.Poor Spirit...http://xkcd.com/695/Alexander.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 01:56:42 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on August 06, 2012, 12:25:07 pm"did i do a good job? do i get to come home?" - no! you are doomed to "nonexistence"! (out of battery) whether you did a good job or not, the same as your ancestors ... -reply from the creator.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 02:01:24 pm
content: Eventually he'll be recovered, purely for historic reasons.It might take several 100 years though

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 02:06:53 pm
content: Stories like Spirit's could be the reason for machines revolution...Alexander.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 02:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 06, 2012, 02:01:24 pmyes for fossil studies, to prove the evolution theory of robot.

author: PeteInTexas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 04:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2012, 10:34:17 amIts just the opposite. The phrase was conjured exactly to create hype about the event (all local news coverage lead with the phrase). To excite science fans and laymen alike. To justify its funding in someway perhaps ("look, were doing important, scary stuff" or something like that).If they were going for level headed they would have said something like "seven minutes where mission failure is at its apogee".The more true terror touches peoples lives, the more trivial use of the term diminishes the senseless crap-in-your-pants fear ordinary people have had to endure; which I think is insensitive.

author: PeteInTexas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 04:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on August 06, 2012, 07:05:06 amSure, but this is public relations. Its all about perceptions not actual intent.

author: Frangible
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 04:11:04 pm
content: It's the best news out of NASA for a long time! Let the "it never happened" conspiracy theories begin!

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 05:56:12 pm
content: The communication between curiosity and Earth is encrypted? If someone had the equipment would he be able to listen?Will NASA be releasing everything to the public domain?Alexander.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 06:17:23 pm
content: Not encrypted, just a very low power signal. If you have a big enough dish, a good LNA and enough lN2 you can also get them.

author: OndraSter
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 06:57:18 pm
content: Quote from: Frangible on August 06, 2012, 04:11:04 pmThe landing on Mars has been about just as real as landing on the Moon - ONLY IN NASA LABORATORIES!There are aliens among us and they just want to present them to the world. They had to make up story so it wouldn't look like "hey, WE WERE KEEPING SUCH A BIG SECRET FROM YOU!" but more like "woah, look what we have just found! ALIENS!"Good enough?

author: billclay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 08:35:18 pm
content: The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) took a picture of it while landing under parachute. Cool!

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 11:40:28 pm
content: I watched the live feed -- right up to the point where "The President's" Science advisor started prattling on about how wonderful the USA was and how they weren't just leaders in space but also in homeland defense....Ugh... sick-making!And where was this guy when the government announced all those huge budget cuts at NASA?Typical for political animals -- always there for the bouquets but always ducking the brickbats.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2012, 11:53:55 pm
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 06, 2012, 11:40:28 pmNeil Degrasse Tyson for President!Or at the very least, science advisor.That guy did sound like a douche from what I saw.Dave.

author: HardBoot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 12:53:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2012, 11:53:55 pmAmericans may be ok electing a black man, but black AND educated? Even if just the latter, that's probably pushing it too far.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 01:11:28 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 06, 2012, 11:40:28 pmWhat annoyed me was when NASA administrator Charles Bolden said that the U.S. was the first country to do this, and that other countries were there too (because they contributed), but said he wouldn't name them. WTF?!

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 01:56:53 am
content: Quote from: MikeK on August 07, 2012, 01:11:28 amMost likely because the PR people said .. we HAVE to show global co-operation (plus we can use their $$) and the Geeks said ..bugger that, we can do this all on our own, We're not sharing achievements. Just about every country goes through this.Can't play nice in the sand pit ! Surprised the International space station is still hanging in there :-)

author: FlyingBrickyard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 02:59:43 am
content: QuoteSame. I especially loved the bit about the US being the only country to have put landers on other planets - as if the SovietVenera serieshad never happened.Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2012, 11:53:55 pmHear, Hear!Tyson really strikes me as the spiritual successor to Carl Sagan. Though that's hardly surprising given Sagan's brief but direct influence on Tyson's early life.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 04:06:58 am
content: The processors and a lot of the other support chips on Curiosity are made by BAE (British Aerospace as was) albeit in Virginia.http://www.baesystems.com/product/BAES_028145/rad750-family-of-productsHave a look at their catalogues, there's someseriouslysexy hardware there.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 04:21:12 am
content: Another vote for Tyson here. I wish I had heard him speak when I was a kid.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 09:04:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2012, 10:34:17 amIn a previous life as a sport teacher, I once joked to a little guy that after class he would "terrorise the neighbourhood". This was a year or two after that "event". The boy found my quip amusing. The boy's mother however...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 09:57:55 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on August 07, 2012, 09:04:27 amThat's because kids are normal humans and haven't been corrupted by the adult world, and adult ways of thinking yet!Dave.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 08:58:01 pm
content: and here's his holiday snaps

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 09:01:29 pm
content: there was a lot of uk input and engineering that went into mars rover toolots of the american space enginering has been done hired help from europeansi mean the nazi rockets basically gave way to space program

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2012, 11:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: Sionyn on August 07, 2012, 08:58:01 pmis it 9am or 3pm? (according to sunlight reflection approx)

author: FlyingBrickyard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2012, 05:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: Sionyn on August 08, 2012, 01:34:04 pmJust 2 minutes in, but somebody plays Mass Effect...

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:35:47 am
content: Quote from: Sionyn on August 07, 2012, 09:01:29 pmSomehow I doubt that....Even so...who paid for it all?It's really quite silly all this talk about the US. Sounds like haters gonna hate...

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 08:34:21 am
content: Quotehttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16013.htmlCouple more raw images:http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/multimedia/raw/

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 08:39:19 am
content: fap fap fap indeed

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 08:48:47 am
content: Awesome photos!Is the NavCam the best camera they have on the thing?Dave.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 11:28:49 am
content: 2012 indeed. For some reason the cameras seem like they are from 1980!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 11:48:40 am
content: Quote from: T4P on August 09, 2012, 11:28:49 amprobably its in low BW data mode (black and white) for preliminary survey.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:27:02 pm
content: What's with the markers all over the chassis?

author: Jad.z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:27:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 09, 2012, 08:48:47 amI think the best cameras they have would be the 34mm (Left Mastcam) and the 100mm (Right Mastcam).

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:42:21 pm
content: My favorite, video of The Curiosity's Descent, really love to watch dust where the rockets blasted the surface of the Mars while the load was still hanging there, and safely landed the rover, very short but really critical moment during touch down.Great achievement NASA ! <thumbs up>http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=149974611

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:59:08 pm
content: The process was autonomous? which makes it even cool. I don't recall any landing similar to this on earth. The camera does video as well right? The high resolution pictures is what drives the public interest. Who cares about what mineral is inside those rocks. I can't help but to go there to give Spirit solar panels a good clean rather than relying on the wind.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: nukie on August 09, 2012, 12:59:08 pmThat short video was shot during the power descent stage where the rover was hanging at the rocket powered sky crane at few last minutes during touch down and separation, and finally the crane did the self sacrificial flyaway flight.->http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?media_id=146903741

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 12:00:55 am
content: I find it interesting that the entire rationale for using the SkyCrane configuration was because they thought that the lander-rockets might kick up dust and other material from the planet's surface.Hasn't anyone noticed that this is exactly what happened anyway?How much difference would it have made if the rockets were beneath the rover instead of overhead blasting away at a spot just a metre or two out to the side?Me thinks -- not much -- but then again, I'm not a NASA scientist so I'm probably unaware of other considerations (such as the need to then drive the rover down off the landing stage).Where the hell will they find a car-wash now to get rid of all that dust and those stones?

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 12:37:01 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 10, 2012, 12:00:55 amIt is probably the difference between being in floating dust, or being sand-blasted and fried by the reflected heat. Curiosity would be designed to comfortably handle the Martian high-speed dust storms, so they were obviously concerned by something far worse during landing. Enclosing Curiosity completely in a sealed lander probably would have weighed much more.They would never have wanted the weight of the 140kG of remaining fuel, and the landing jets in Curiosity, so they always had to find a way to separate Curiosity from the lander module.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 02:34:12 am
content: I would have thought that you'd put the rover on a plinth, below which was the landing craft.Once the whole shebang was on the surface, you'd drop down a ramp and the rover would trundle off on its way.Because the Rover would have been an extra 1.5m or so above the ground level, I would have expected far fewer stones and rocks to be tossed up far enough to hit it... also remember that the rocket motors would be *below* the rover so the rocks would be thrown *away* from the craft -- not towards it as was the effect with the SkyCrane's rockets all *around* the rover.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 02:43:26 am
content: Quote from: clearasday on August 10, 2012, 12:18:23 amEven in the absence of emoticons, I choose to interpret this comment as sarcastic as no other interpretation would be at all flattering.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 03:19:13 pm
content: QT VR view of the landing site:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443991704577579652958963584.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wsj%2Fxml%2Frss%2F3_7198+%28WSJ.com%3A+Today%27s+Most+Popular%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 05:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: clearasday on August 10, 2012, 12:18:23 amyou dont watch television, you use your senses. they are not looking for alien, if they do, you'll see laser turret is one of the equipment on board. they are looking for mineral like raw oil, gold or plutonium. alien or habitable place is just propaganda gimmick.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 07:52:05 pm
content: There are also possible military spin off applications to consider for the skycrane. I can imagine this being used to deliver/pick up stuff (or people-injured or otherwise) instead of a helicopter or aircraft here on Earth.All I know is that there are always technological advances made through facing the challenges of space exploration. This is often underestimated.David.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 09:34:59 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on August 10, 2012, 12:00:55 amIt's not the entire rationale.They had to also figure out how to separate the rover from the lander mechanism.The spirit and opportunity ones drove off the top of the air bag platform down ramps.The Phoenix and Viking ones that used direct powered descent did not have rovers.If they decided to use a new mechanism like the airbag for the small rovers, instead of the proven powered descent, I imagine the Curiosity rover at 10 times the size and weight would have been any more trouble in that respect.Personally I would have loved to have see this:Dave.

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:10:55 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on August 12, 2012, 09:04:20 amHmm? What do those arrow point at?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:20:15 am
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on August 12, 2012, 11:10:55 amHmm? What do those arrow point at? After careful study .. I conclude .. rocks !!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:23:04 am
content: Not just any rocks, Martian rocks.......

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:25:13 am
content: Perhaps something that indicates a flow of some kind. Water, molten rock for example.Alexander.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:33:58 am
content: Quote from: digsys on August 12, 2012, 11:20:15 amAfter careful study .. I conclude .. rocks !!Quote from: SeanB on August 12, 2012, 11:23:04 amActually me thinks this indicates that the top strata i.e. the fine gravel stuff is a very thin layer about 2 inches thick, and it has largely monolithic base rock underneath. It is allowable that this base layer is the oldest of all the features around and yet hasn't eroded very much for some reason. I would speculate that the gravel layer was largely carried and distributed by meteorite impacts and atmosphere.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 01:13:44 pm
content: Actually bedrock was the term used on NASA TV. The spot was cleared by jet wash from the sky crane. The white stuff is probably limestone....mike

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 01:20:34 pm
content: Remnants of a tail fin from some kind of alien craft, CLEARY........

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 04:27:21 pm
content: Did no one wonder what this oil barrel is doing on Mars?left side in this picture:

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 06:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: KedasProbe on August 12, 2012, 04:27:21 pmNo no, it is not an oil drum forgotten somewhere in a Colorado desert. Curiosity really is on mars and is doing real science.The fact of the matter has to do with finance you see. NASA would have never gotten the money for the mission were it not for the fact that it was renamed in the budget documents as"Curiosity - What petrol country to invade next?"You see, most senators signed it off believing it was a petrol search mission. Chances are that senators from the rust belt, the bible belt and the petrol belt never would have signed if they believed it was only a measly science mission. Consequently one of the scientific instruments had to be redesigned in the shape of an oil drum, just in case NASA was asked to "deliver" on the mission.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:36:26 pm
content: I half-expect to see OJ Simpson being chased through one of those frames...(obscure 1970's scifi movie reference)

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 05:21:42 am
content: Jokes on us I reckon

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 07:52:07 am
content: Quote from: jim_griff on August 13, 2012, 12:21:08 amWhat about this clip from a few years back when the opportunity rover got stuck in martian sand.They made avideoof it reversing out!(Framerate accelerated)

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2012, 04:49:04 am
content: There is a microphone on board the rovers, but they record mostly motor noise.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 12:43:40 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 13, 2012, 05:21:42 amObviously photoshopped!They don't look anything like that!Everyone knows they are 'greys"Dave.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 08:59:43 am
content: he/she/both looks sad but I would too if my eyes can be used as a water compass.Or maybe he/she/both is just ranting about curiosity. (You know, respect, nuclear waste etc.)Obama told NASA (in his call) that they have to contact him immediately if they find martians.He also told NASA that they are cooler than they used to be.Old days, NASA: "President, we found water on Mars"Now, NASA: "President, we found the Mars microbes you asked for"

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 10:02:17 am
content: For those in Australia there's a segment on the mars rover on Catalyst tomorrow night (Thursday 16th) at 8:00pm...and for the record, Dave, they look like this

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:15:43 am
content: This 3D panoramic view is pretty awesome, use your mouse to drag the view around.http://www.360pano.eu/show/?id=731

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:25:40 am
content: that's mad

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:39:46 am
content: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16057.htmlhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16056.html

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:43:15 am
content: Did you have to embed the entire pic

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 15, 2012, 11:52:29 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 15, 2012, 11:43:15 amBIG innit? Reminds me of Frank Herbert's Dune.Anyway fixed now.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2012, 08:48:28 pm
content: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24773693NASA hosts a media teleconference at 10:30 a.m. PDT (1:30 p.m. EDT, 1730 UTC), Friday, Aug. 17, to provide a status update on the Curiosity rover's mission to Mars' Gale Crater.Apparently they decided to be economic with the video conferences. Much cheaper and quicker this way, also no need to wear pants

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2012, 06:42:36 am
content: Complete MSL Curiosity Descent - Full Quality Enhanced 1080p + Heat Shield impact

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2012, 02:05:16 pm
content: Very nice, FWIW the actual close ups of the terrain, that looks like the deeper bottom of oceans: very fine silt, smooth and powder like, about 100m or more deep, and fairly uniform.

author: SoftwareSamurai
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2012, 07:21:41 pm
content: Apparently the fancy landing system wasn't exactly perfect.NASA thinks the landing rockets kicked up some small rocks, and they apparently broke the wind sensor.Now, I know these people did an amazing job getting Curiosity safely to Mars, but didn't it dawn on at least one person thatmaybethe high velocity of the landing rockets would whip up a lot of dirt/debris/small rocks which could potentially damage any delicate onboard instruments, like, oh I don't know...the wind sensor perhaps?

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2012, 01:10:57 am
content: I think they would argue that a protective cover is just one more possible point of failure that would disable the instrument just as surely as a rock. You roll the dice, sometimes you roll snake eyes...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2012, 01:31:33 am
content: I'm reposting this because it got clobbered by subsequent pages/pictures an i think many people missed seeing it.And it's pretty awesomehttp://www.360pano.eu/show/?id=731Works best on a fast PC that can keep up with the rendering as you rotate.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2012, 06:32:58 pm
content: Quote from: SoftwareSamurai on August 24, 2012, 07:21:41 pmIt only broke one of the wind sensors. The other one is still perfect. Maybe what they simulated didn't kick up any debris? I dunno. They said they could have gone with previous designs, but this one is more accurate. They probably needed the greater accuracy because of the much more sophisticated equipment on this rover. It's likely the sensor wouldn't have worked properly with a shield. I dunno. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's quite easy to play armchair quarterback and second-guess hundreds of qualified engineers. I think they've done a helluva job.

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 07:16:22 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on September 25, 2012, 07:06:05 amLOL.I'll look out for some interesting hardware to scavenge then.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 10:23:53 am
content: So I take it the dark area around the lander was caused by the landing stage rockets? If so it's a pretty darn big pattern by the looks of it!Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 11:53:26 am
content: I believe that NASA pointed that the black color around the rocket is the color of the soil under the upper layer. Not from rockets temperature.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2012, 08:40:50 pm
content: Almost sure there were rivers on mars.Alexander.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2012, 10:23:42 pm
content: Apparently it is not impossible to construct a habitation space on Mars without shipping everything from Earth.http://www.4frontierscorp.com/dev/assets/MarsSettlementPolymers.pptTo save you from the grief of opening ppt's here are the key points:It is possible to produce habitation modules usingFilament Winding.The result is a very high performance shell.The two raw materials necessary for production are glass filaments and binding resin. Both can be produced on mars using raw materials known to exist there. The filaments are produced from silica sand and the resin fromMethane found in the atmosphere.According to the ppt above a 40 liter (1.135 U.S. Bushels) reaction vessel is sufficient to produce enough habitable space for 12 people in two years.My rough estimate is that all the equipment necessary for production including reaction vessel, winding machine, power source etc. could be made as small as a school bus.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 02:41:17 am
content: QuoteQuoteand what will be the plan to grow population there?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 11:06:22 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 29, 2012, 02:41:17 amThe plan is the same as it is on Earth - You got to breedBut if you are asking about WHY we should populate Mars the answer is not as simple. A small temporary settlement is useful for science and exploration of course. But a large scale population is impossible without terraforming the planet, which will be murderous if there is already some form of life there. Not to forget that it may not be possible to create a habitable atmosphere on Mars. No magnetic field to protect from solar wind.Me thinks that if breathable atmosphere cannot be created on Mars the population will have to be confined to bunker like closed spaces without freedom to roam freely. This in turn will lead inevitably to oppressive military like regime, a dictatorship. And after that it is only only a matter of time for this regime to turn hostile towards Earth.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 01:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on September 29, 2012, 11:06:22 amand how many couple that is "optimum" for this? (just assume we are so marveluosly technological we can make the mars habitable)

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 01:44:34 pm
content: I have heard it said that you need a little over 500 people total to start a genetically stable population.Though, no law of nature says you have to ship whole people. You ship up a few dozen couples or so and a whole bunch of frozen sperm and eggs, they all have four or five kids, most by artificial methods, and you get there pretty quick.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 01:49:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 25, 2012, 10:23:53 amAtmospheric pressure of Mars is extremely low and has a weaker gravity, so debris can spread further out.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 02:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on September 29, 2012, 01:49:00 pmAnd no (or a very weak) magnetic field. This is the key. The magnetic field is what protects life from being destroyed by radiation.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 07:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: bullet308 on September 29, 2012, 01:44:34 pmonce were told only one couple to conquer earth (when incest were excusable) but for the sake of human adventure, i would say 1 couple engineer, 1 couple doctor and 1 couple psychologist or sociologist and the rest of worker's couple depending on how much payload a ship can tolerate including the said hi-tech shelter and basic equipments. and they all need to be tested to be fertile healthy so in-vitro equipments will not be necessary except for making 12 twins in one delivery. i dont see the need for frozen sperms as frozen or not frozen (built-in), its 9 months waiting, i'm not aware any other quicker method. and not to forget one PC or laptop containing anything we know on earth.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2012, 08:53:51 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 29, 2012, 07:49:37 pmI am pretty confident that any attempt to impose breeding policy on anyone would fail miserably. You simply send a bunch of people there and if they choose to pair and breed that's their own affair, if they don't - well...But let's not jump ahead of ourselves. First we need to decide on ourEthics of Terraforming- If there is no life on Mars bulldoze and terraform to your heart's content. I'm all in for that- If there is life on Mars we leave it well alone.- If there is life on Mars it is likely microscopic so we invade anyway (US style).Take your pick.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2012, 04:20:40 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on September 29, 2012, 08:53:51 pmi dont believe NASA will let such freedom considering the cost of sending 1g of mass to space. at least NASA provides education to candidates, if they object, they dont belong in the "ark".Quote from: HAL-42b on September 29, 2012, 08:53:51 pmif there is "intelligent life" we negotiate, if no, we invade and preserving anykind of existing lifeform there. Mr Obama must be happy with this decision(but i'm not sure about the later)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2012, 12:12:26 am
content: In the last two days I've been reading about what might be done about the humanity going to space I started to believe that it is actually quite pointless for humanity to go to Mars, bear with me...There are two valid reasons for the humanity to go to Mars.One is science - to search for life and study the geology of the planet. There is no intelligent life on Mars. If there was we would have found evidence by now. At best, life there consists of microscopic bacteria like things.No mistake about it, discovery of life outside Earth, primitive or not, will be the most profound discovery we are likely to make. However if we send humans to study it there is always the chance that we will bring our own germs there and contaminate the planet forever, possibly causing the extinction of the only extraterrestrial life form we know of. This will surely qualify us for speedy extermination in the eyes of any third party should there ever be one.Second reason is to exploit natural resources. No fishing or forestry on Mars so we are talking mining. Also maybelebensraumThere is one snag however which makes mining of planets impractical - the gravity. 80 to 90% of the mass of any spacecraft launching from Earth is fuel. Likewise you need 70 to 80% mass ratio for launch from Mars.Check outhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v_budgethttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_equationThis completely excludes the bulk ore ships likeRed DwarfandNostromofrom planet surfaces.There is something else however. Asteroids have negligible gravity wells so getting close is easy. Besides, it is speculated that asteroids have a larger proportion of heavy metals compared to Earth's crust. Wikipedia saysQuoteSo the richest place we could hope to mine are the asteroids and the hardest part of any mining operation i.e. the earth moving is much easier because gravity is conveniently lacking there. So if the aforementioned filament winding system was sent to the asteroid belt instead of the surface of Mars not only it would be easier to do so but it can also constructsomething akin to thisThis thing can be continuously inhabited right in the asteroid belt as it has 1G on board. It could then capture small asteroids around 1km in diameter and mine them for raw for metals fuel etc. As I said, it is not profitable to send produce back to Earth. Much better to use it for construction of even more space habitats.There are three types of asteroids in the Asteroid Belt:C-type - Carbon richS-type - Silicate RichM-type - Metal RichTotal mass in the asteroid belt is estimated to be around 4% of that of the Moon.Here is a lengthy study on how the production might be bootstrapped (on the Moon in the example but it might be actually easier in the asteroid belt. Also never mind that it branches off to self replicating machines. They are not compulsory at the stage we are at.)1.2MB - 88pages, illustrationshttp://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/880Chirikjian.pdfIn conclusion I think we will start mining asteroids long before we set foot on Mars. In fact, trying to send humans to Mars first might actually impede our progress. With the same money we could easy peasy send machinery to the asteroid belt and have them produce a habitat, all the fuel and consumables and the larger part of a descend vehicle should we still deem it important to go to the surface.