Lecroy Wavesurfer 3054 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2019, 05:52:10 pm
content: This may be common knowledge, if so please disregard.Currently, the LeCroy Wavesurfer 3054 is available for US$2900. This is a 500MHz, 4Gs, 4 channel scope. These are factory refurbs that come with a current cal certificate and 3 year warranty.Teledyne Lecroy has a store on ebay selling these and other scopes/accessories.I know there are a number of folks here who are not fans of the 3000 series, but it's a lot scope for $2900. Based on a 2014 release, these scopes are not very old either - the "z" series was just released late last year.Anyway, I wanted to pass along the information for anyone interested.Cheers

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 11:20:38 am
content: I like the idea of pushing sustainability by maintainance. Another very interesting offer:https://www.ebay.com/itm/LeCroy-Vehicle-Bus-Analyzer-VBA204Xi-204Xi-2GHz-10GS-s-Oscilloscope-Probes/113332193476?hash=item1a632008c4:g:18YAAOSwPTlb03e4This is a portable Lecroy scope with 4 channels of 2 GHz bandwidth, with touch screen and with active probe ports. It should be about 10 years old and appears to be working. It will last another 10 years if you clean the dust inside. These scopes have long acquisition memory and 2 digitizers with 10 GSamples/sec each. With four channels it still runs at 5 GSamples/sec per channel.Regards, Dieter

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 08:45:43 pm
content: To the Topic:QuoteI´m one of them - cause we got since january 2018 a WS3024.Bought in the hope it´s a lecroy, what couldn´t get wrong….Yes, it´s lecroy style, hefty look and feel, lecroy-specific probe-connections, works without any problems with our AP011 currentclamp for example.Or full hardware serial decoding...Nice big bright screen....BUT:Awful slow response, it seems that the hardware is a little bit too weak for the lecroy features.And it freezes at several circumstances, only hard reset will help.Many firmware updates so far and an end is not in sight.Against my rigol mso 5074, the WS lost clearly in performance….what a pity.The 3000Z models are improved versions what the hardware concerns.You can see it that the power analyzer option is on only avaible for WS3000Z versions.I wouldn´t recommend the WS3000 series…To get the circle closed, in that case I´m with Dieter...

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 04:16:32 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 23, 2019, 11:20:38 amThis is as portable as any other Waveruner scopeAnd a reliable source told me that if the handle isn't black then it may fail and in the process dropping the whole scope. So not really portable

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:54:38 am
content: Yes, when you buy a 10 year old machine you will have to do some maintainance and in that process you will learn in the www what to observe. Not a real problem for an engineer or scientist. Just stay calm and avoid crazy things like motherboard upgrades, option hacks and the like.Our WR 64Xi is similar to the VBA and i am confident we can keep it running after having spent 2 or 3 days exchanging the touch panel, cleaning the dirt inside, fixing one of the rotary encoders, renewing the clock battery etc. It did have the black handle and stronger fans and i got some explosion views of the mechanics from LeCroy. It's easy to take apart and mount even without those drawings.LeCroy service and accessories are expensive. But there are enough of those pre-owned machines around to get help elsewhere.Regards, DieterPS:And yes, a 20K scope should not be portable, because portable scopes keep falling down, independent of which handle they have. Apparently many of those scopes go to after market with one of the rotary controls broken, like our WR 64Xi. Apparently our scope survived the accident without fatal damage. Let's hope the same is true for that VBA on ebay.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:30:34 pm
content: QuoteDid this one still have a free adjustable und moveable measure-gate, like the Waverunner LT and the 93XX models got ?This feature is not only missing in the WS3000 series, after contacting lecroy, even todays waverunner/master/pro/hdo doesn´t have it anymore….

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 08:18:36 pm
content: Yes our WR 64Xi supports the measurement gate. See attached screen dump where it measures the sync fields in two USB2 packets.Regards, Dieter

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 08:23:44 pm
content: The two green "arrows" left, underside ?

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:11:56 am
content: No, those arrows indicate the trigger position in the main track and the green zoom track. The trigger position of the other zoom is invisible (outside screen to the left).Gate adjustment looks like below. It is specific for each parameter.The parameter warning indicators are: "Parameter on rising edge. Data range too low. Data should span most of the grid height for best resolution.".Regards, Dieter

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 05:17:34 pm
content: Hi,Yes but this is also known by the newer models - And it seems, it hasn´t got the "track" function like the waverunner lt (see my picture before).Old waverunners got this gate too:With tracking on, you could move the once defined gate over the signal, without defining the gate for the new position ( we need this for measuring a e.g. 400hz sinewave signal, before/after loadstep (voltage regulation behaviour).

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 08:31:16 pm
content: I could not find that tracking gate. I know our 9354AL has that, and the gate is for a group of parameters.But on the WR 64Xi screen dump i posted above you can see "Trend" and "Track" buttons. I mean what you want to do by hand, turning the knob on that older scope, the new scope will probably do all by itself, presenting the result as a curve "parameter value as function of time or event count".To be honest, i can't explain the difference between "Trend" and "Track". Up to now i only used "Histogram" and hist icons.Regards, Dieter

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 01:53:07 pm
content: See below a track of the frequency parameter (orange curve). Vertical centerline is at 240 MHz, scale is 1 MHz per vertical unit. A neat method that improves on manual tracking.Regards, Dieter

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 05:32:17 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 25, 2019, 06:54:38 amI don't think a 10 year old scope should already require extensive repairs. My Lecroy LTs are 17 years old and my Agilent DSO8064 is 11 years old and neither required any repairMissing encoders and knobs are not because a scope has been dropped but because the knobs have been knocked off by someoneAnd why should an expensive scope not be portable? I think such a scope would be designed as a bench scope but it should still be portable to some extend. The handles on my LT scopes are solid enough to safely hold the weight of the scope, and so does the handle on my Agilent Infinum DSO8064. I think if the scope is so expensive then the budget should include something better than a flimsy plastic handle that failsSomeone who shall not be named once told me that these Lecroy Xi were of poor build quality and that they tend to overheat and that the power supplies are prone to fail. It would have to be really cheap before I would consider buying one when the older scopes are so much more reliable

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 08:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 24, 2019, 08:45:43 pmIf you don't mind sharing, what were the circumstances when the scope froze? Was the slow response something that affected everything? I ask because I am interested in the 3054. I'm not in any production environment or test development scenario. It's just for my hobby bench and the RF projects I fiddle with. I have a friend on another forum who took delivery of a 3054 a couple of weeks ago. He hasn't done any exhaustive testing - just using it as a normal scope. He said he hasn't noticed any anomalies yet. He loaded all 4 inputs with 25kHz wide FM sinewave at 250 MHz and the ran FFTs on 3 of them. Except for a couple of seconds delay while it was processing, it ran fine.Did you run into any problems with the analog inputs? Were you using any of the mixed signal accessories? I won't have any use for any of the digital stuff with the scope - just analog.Thanks

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 08:47:44 pm
content: If you want to spend that kind of money then look somewhere else. The original Wavesurfer 3000 series have an extremely weak CPU under the hood which isn't up to the task at all.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 08:48:40 pm
content: Hi,QuoteI´m using the analog inputs only.There are different circumstances where the scope freezes - but one of them is an "approved" bug lecroy knows about it ( I´ve contact them and they could reproduce it, now it´s on their list for the next Firmware update.):At lower frequencies if you use the "find triggerlevel" button, the scope freezes and only turn off/on will take it back ( sometimes even this won´t work and you need to plug it off from the mains).The higher the frequency, the less it will freeze.Further the response ( using touchpanel) will be slowed down ( don´t know exactly under which conditions, must examine it).You hit a button on the screen...nothing happens althoug the audible feedback take notice about by a "click", it was an delay of a few seconds for responding.Today it hungs up by trying to degaussing the AP011 probes - sometimes I think our WS3024 was defective but a look in the firmware revision history, there a several fixes for preventing the scope to crash.We bought this one and a few weeks later the WS3000Z was avaible, with improved hardware (board, screen, touchpanel) - this was really annoying.Also a known bug :You can define the measure gate ( from which division from... till it should measure) - but you can´t see it on the screen (dashed lines).Edit:QuoteI agree with it, at today´s sight and after working with it over a year.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 09:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 30, 2019, 08:47:44 pmWasn't this scope designed in cooperation with Siglent?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 12:38:44 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 30, 2019, 09:59:33 pmYep and the later 3000Z too. (SDS3000X)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 06:30:33 am
content: and it had nothing wrong hardware wise, aside the fact that the resistive touch screen of the first version was a true piece of shit. (The new Z version have a much more usable capacitive touch screen)The problem hardware wise was that the cpu was hugely underspecced (also improved on the new Z version, but not much. Wavescan is still too slow to be useful, onse you set acquisition memory over 100kps scope slows down a lot as well)The problem software wise is that even though the lecroy version of the scope runs lecroy software, with all the goodies and flexibility, some of the functions were stripped down. All the useful bits in wavescan were removed, it's just a glorified event search.For that kind of money the siglent 5000x or the RTB2000 are way more interesting and usable IMHO

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 02:01:06 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 30, 2019, 08:47:44 pmFirst, Martin, thank you for your insights and details of your experience. My friend from the other forum so far is happy with his. I think in his case and mine, several of the issues mentioned will not directly impact our use. I'm going to wait though and see what issues arise as he continues to check out the 3054. We're both just RF experimenters and a number of the firmware/software features are just generally lost on us."that kind of money" - in this case, it's US $2850 for the 3054. The Siglent goes for twice that. I haven't found comparable hardware - working and warranted and calibrated - anywhere else yet, although I'm still looking.Cheers

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 04:49:47 pm
content: If you are into RF and don't need feature like decoding then I'd go for a second hand scope. In your price range you can find really nice ones on Ebay.

author: ollopa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 07:27:20 pm
content: The WS3K scopes run WinCE and a simplified version of the Maui software. The CPU is inferior, the hardware specifications are inferior, and the firmware is inferior to any of the full-Windows scopes. The price, however, is in the range of one of those used scopes so you're not even getting better value out of the WS3K...I would buy a WS3K over a Rigol or Siglent any day of the week but I'd rather have a WR6KA, WSXs, WRXi, or WP7KA than a WS3K. If OneTouch means more to you than performance then by all means, spend your $3k on the WS3K.

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 07:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 01, 2019, 04:49:47 pmWell, the 3054 is a "second hand" scope - just factory refurbished, selling for about $4000 less than when new. To add some perspective, my current scope is a Tek 2465B - a loaner now for about 18 months and I do need to return it to its owner. He's been more than generous and I need the room on the bench. Before the 2465B, I had a Tek 465B. Last December, I had a Keysight DSO 3054 for about 3 weeks to tinker with. It took a few days to get up to speed, but I was impressed. Cursors were cool on the 2465, but this was a whole new game. You can keep the touchscreen junk, but I was having a ball with a mouse. I wanted that scope, but $10k was way out of the park. Since then, I've been searching for a scope similar to it. I want a scope that works and meets spec - not a fixer upper or something I have to screw around with. At my age, I'm done with that stuff. When I sit down at the bench, I just want to work on my project and be able to trust my equipment. I've been looking at ebay and wherever to find something I could afford and that I trusted. So, if you know of another 500 MHz, 4G/s, 4 channel scope that is a turnkey package, please let me know - I'm exhausted.Cheers

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 07:50:59 pm
content: Quote from: ollopa on May 01, 2019, 07:27:20 pmBut from what I understand all the scopes you listed have some drawbacksThe WP7KA is huge and as loud as a jet engineAnd as far as I know WR6KA and WR7KA both have very limited hardware trigger sets (i.e. not even a "runt" trigger)WSXS and WRXI seem to have build quality issues with tendency to overheat and other problems (i.e. delaminating touch layer). And I heard power supplies are a weak point, tooAll these scopes are old and because they are so complex they seem somewhat fragile. The WS3000 seems to be new and with warrantyI'm no expert but a place I did an internship in a while ago had a WS3000, and I didn't find it bad. It can get slow if you play with FFT or multiple math traces but for general tasks it was OK. The touch screen needed some firm press but it really wasn't as bad as it's been portrayed

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 08:34:16 pm
content: QuoteI won´t.Or, if you buy a WS3K you buy a siglent….The performance in general is awful ( WS3K without "Z" ), the hardware is underdressed - For comparison it´s like building a sportscar with an 100HP motor.

author: ollopa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 09:12:19 pm
content: In any case yes, the WS3K has smart triggers and the older 32-bit LeCroy scopes do not. But they're still faster, upgradeable (MB/CPU/OS), run full Windows so you can run other software on the scope (JTAG cable server, protocol analyzer software, whatever else is useful in your lab), have deeper sample memory, etc.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 12:03:26 am
content: Quote from: ollopa on May 01, 2019, 09:12:19 pmFrom what I understand the WSXS and WRXI do. Just the WP7KA and WP6KA don'tGood hardware triggers are the key to find rare glitches and even the older LT series had themQuoteWhich is great if that is what you're looking forBut I don't want my scope to be the project. I want to use it to build other thingsI also have an Agilent Infinum DSO8064 which runs XP but I don't run other programs on it or upgrade the OS (what for?)My old Lecroy LTs don't run Windows or can be upgraded but they do what they're supposed to do day and and day out. From what I have seen the WS3000 is exactly the sameAnd it's not as if Lecroy had to take lots of WS3000 back because they're so poor. From what I understand the WS3000 came out around 2014 and sold rather well

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 12:32:41 am
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 02, 2019, 12:03:26 amYes announced here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy_s-newest-siglent-scope-is-here!/However it seems its parent SDS3000 was unveiled in 2013 when the earliest mentions where made of it on EEVblog.I had a quick fiddle with one in 2014 at the Siglent factory and it was clear the 3k was not intended for western markets as the was no English UI setting as LeCroy had all western marketing rights.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 06:13:16 am
content: Quote from: ollopa on May 01, 2019, 07:27:20 pmYou say that... i said that before actually using it.Granted that i would buy ANYTHING before a rigol and every time i make an exception to this rule i get very disappointed, the 5000X from siglent is really something different from anything they've done before. The 5034 is or was 2.9k when we demoed it hence why i said "for that kind of money"

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 02:11:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 02, 2019, 12:03:26 amThat mirrors my thoughts so far, based on information gleaned elsewhere. I'm certainly not discounting those opinions here, especially from folks who have actually used the 3054. I've been corresponding with my associate from another forum about the 3054 he bought refurbished from ebay. I had passed along some of the comments made here and he has since basically been throwing everything he could think of at the scope. He's a bit of a generator junkie - he probably has one of everything ever made or it seems that way to me. He has used NTSC/ATSC video patterns, various weird" waveforms he created with his arbs, a variety of modulated signals from a vector generator and typical stuff - AM/FM/PM - from his assortment of Marconi 1200 series and R&S SMB100 gens. Some FFTs take a few seconds to process, but other than that, no freezes and he hasn't found anything he couldn't trigger.We're both retired EEs and he's probably tried more stuff in the last week than I'll ever see in my application of the scope. Given the lack of any serious competition for the same configuration and price, I'll probably roll the dice on the 3054.Thanks to all who took the time to respond and again, thanks for your perspective Martin.Cheers

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 02:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: FuzzyOnion on May 01, 2019, 07:48:32 pmThe Agilent 54835A / 54845A are nice and affordable. I have one of these (54835A uphacked to 54845A) specifically for measuring high frequency signals. The trigger system has a very low jitter and the inputs are very resillient to overdrive which means you can get really steep edges into the trigger system by cranking the v/div to a very low setting. I managed to resolve 20ps steps from a digital delay line using this oscilloscope.Money wise it is often cheaper to buy a lower end general purpose oscilloscope (somewhere in the $1000 range) and a scope for high frequency work. An all-in-one box gets expensive quickly and may not perform as well.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 06:19:51 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 01, 2019, 07:50:59 pmThat's why you want to clean the dust, when you buy a ten year old unit. If you don't do that, fans will run at high speed and it will die from overheat after some years. Keep it clean and it will run like charm!Regards, Dieter

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 06:55:24 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 03, 2019, 06:19:51 pmI doubt that "cleaning the dust" will help when the termal design of these scopes is so bad that even Lecroy had to upgrade the fans to keep the scopes from burning out during it's warranty period

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 07:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 03, 2019, 02:20:30 pmI have a DSO8064 which is the successor generation of these 54800 Infinums and I like it but it's not without issues. It's now 11 years old and considered 'obsolete' by Keysight, and the hardware triggers are limited similar to WR6KA and WP7KA (the Runt trigger is a software trigger, i.e. part of InfiniScan)The 54800 scopes are even older and also rely on a weird architecture with two graphics cards and hardware overlay. From what I know especially the earlier scopes which used Windows 95/98 weren't very reliable, and by now many scopes suffer from defective attenuators or other problemsMy DSO8064 doesn't have these problems,its architecture is closer to newer Infinums like the 9000 series so there's no nonsense like two graphics cards, and it also has a high resolution (XGA) touch screen instead of the non-touch VGA panel of the 54800's, but it's still a large and somewhat loud scope which if it fails is no longer supported by its manufacturerI don't think any of the oldtimers mentioned in this thread are viable alternatives to a factory-refurbished WS3000 with warranty unless you're looking for a scope as a project

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 07:28:45 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 03, 2019, 07:08:59 pmThat depends entirely on the requirements. Besides the difference in bandwitdh I doubt the triggering and FFT performance of the 54845A can be matched by the WS3000.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 09:04:07 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 03, 2019, 07:28:45 pmFound the 54845A spec sheet:https://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5980-2397EN.pdf?id=1000070291:epsg:dowHere's the WS3000 spec sheet:http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer-3000-datasheet.pdfWS3000 has hardware triggers for Runt and HDTV video over the 5484554845 also has only 65k memory (in 2ch mode, only 32k in 4ch mode) vs 10M for WS3000Sample rate and bandwidth on 54845 will drop like a rock on longer time bases due to its tiny memoryFFT size is 32k for the 54845 vs 1M for the WS3000Persistence mode in 54845 has only 8 steps of gray vs 256 in the WS3000Even my old Lecroy LT have 256 step persistenceCPU in 54845 is ancient AMD K6-2 400MHz processor which is outperformed by any smartphone CPU of the last 5 yearsI bet FFT perfomance at 32k on the WS3000 is way faster than on old 54845 dinosaur54845 doesn't look like it's that great of a scope, not even when compared to a $400 Siglent. It has bandwith on paper but that's it. And if I needed a 1GHz or faster scope, for the money working 54845As seem to go I'd rather buy something like a Wavepro 900 - better hardware, more memory (64M), better persistence and much better triggersMy old Agilent DSO8064 at least has decent memory (128M) and good persistence mode (256 step like WS3000) and can do FFT to 32M so it's a lot more useful. It also has PCIe architecture board with much faster CPU. But I still would not try to talk Mr. FuzzyOnion into buying one just because DSO8064 is OK for my use

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 04:45:39 pm
content: That is why I wrote the 54845A is great for RF. Again, it can make sense to buy 2 different scopes instead of an all-in-one solution which doesn't do anything really well.BTW I also looked at the Lecroy Wavepro 900 series but these have their problems as well and make a lot more (acoustic) noise. Besides that the Wavepro 900 doesn't have the ability to save to a USB stick. The most recent 54845A models (VIN 33) have a network interface and USB ports.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:14:04 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 04, 2019, 04:45:39 pmClearly, Mr. FuzzyOnion is happy with a 500MHz scopeQuoteThe Wavepro 900 is actually not louder than my DSO8064, both are not silent but I think acceptable (the Wavepro 7000 is really loud, though), and while it doesn't have USB it can save data to compact flash cards which are more reliable than USB keys anywaysEthernet card was an option for LT and Wavepro 900 and many scopes already come with itAnd USB (1.0 I guess because these are antique Socket 7 mobos) is hardly a compensation for the tiny memory size and all the other issues like the poor persistence mode or the tiny FFT size (32k is hardly better than the 16k FFT of a $350 Rigol DS1054z)Aren't you generally the guy who raves against Keysight's simpler scopes because they have only 4M of memory and who regularly declares that long memory is so important for your work?You are certainly right that it can make sense to buy two scopes instead of one in some cases (and you can never have to many scopes anyways) but for a 500MHz requirement the WS3000 should do just fineAnd if I really needed a faster scope than the ones I have then really the last scope I'd buy is something with so little memory and so many limitations as a 54845And capability-wise even my old Waveruner LT run circles around the 54845, and from the poor specs it looks like the Wavepro 900 is in a completely different league

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 07:05:59 pm
content: OTOH the 54845A has better timing resolution (2ps versus 5ps for the Wavepro900) and shorter time/div (100ps versus 200ps). For the purpose I bought the 54845A these are important specs. The Wavepro 900 series probably wouldn't have been able to perform the measurements I needed to do (*). The devil is in the details. Neither scopes would be good for general purpose use though given today's choice of relatively cheap 100MHz/ 200MHz oscilloscopes.* The R&S RTM3004 also can't match the low trigger jitter of the the 54845A.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 10:10:57 pm
content: QuoteThe WS3000Zcould it do it...If I get the time for it on work, I´ll do a video from working with the WS3024.....In the product hierarchy the WS3K is the first wavesurfer model, the entry model - we spend over 4000€ for ours ( with decoding options) and they (lecroy support) told me, well it´s a low cost model which can´t compete against other lecroy models.

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 03:38:37 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 04, 2019, 07:05:59 pmI'm sure you can get the 100ps/div on the Wavepro through the zoomI don't know what difference the timing resolution makes for what you doBut the Wavepro also has a better timebase stability (10ppm vs 70ppm for the 54845) and has an input for an external reference clockAnd it appears that the trigger system on these old Infinum scopes only work up to 700MHz to 1GHz (usually half the analog BW)Lecroy's trigger system in the Wavepro goes up to the full analog BWQuoteCan you expand on these measurements you make which can only be done on a 54845?

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 03:53:48 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 04, 2019, 10:10:57 pmCoolQuoteAnd you think that's wrong?WS3000 is low-cost because it's not a scope with built-in Windows PC like larger Wavesurfer models. Its using a low power embedded processor which is why it's so cheapAnd EUR4000 (which I guess translates to around $5000) is not that much money for a scope with the functionality of the WS3000, at least not in Europe where prices are higher anyways (it appears here in the US the WS3024 went for under $3k)My 500MHz LT574 I think was priced around $12k when new and my 600MHz Agilent DSO8064 was over $14k when new. And these are still sub-1GHz scopes

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 11:26:33 am
content: BTW, any owner could make a memdup of his scope? Or flash/NAND reads?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 03:20:25 pm
content: When I know how to do it, I would…@Mr Nutts:Yes it´s cheap, but when I compare it to the even cheaper rigol mso5000, and I could compare them, there isn´t much "pros" for the ws3000:Brighter screen, building quality in general, clear and logical menu structures, integrated 50ohm termination and, for those who need it, higher bandwith up to 1ghz, excellent decoding menus...wait…..while counting up the advantages of the ws3000 against the mso5000, it comes in mind, that there wasn´t so many pro´s for the rigol, except faster hardware, more (less/more useful)features in general, more samplerate, more memory.OK forget it..If it weren´t so slow in some cases and if it weren´t so buggy in some cases (freezing), the ws3000 would be a good scope, I must confess.Therefore I would like to test the WS3000Z model, actual all options free.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 04:06:03 pm
content: 4000 € is way too much money for a slowish 200 MHz scope that pretty much has no more advanced capabilities than 500€ Siglent or 1300€ GW Instek.On the other hand, 2900 € for a 500MHz version is good deal, if it includes decodes.Every instrument has pros and cons..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 04:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 05, 2019, 03:38:37 amSome of the projects I work on deal with time and frequency distribution which have jitter specs in the single digit ps level. For testing an oscilloscope is a handy tool to see if the jitter is OK or a change in the system added a large amount of jitter or some phase shift got added.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 06:34:37 pm
content: If someone need a 1Ghz scope:https://www.ebay.de/itm/LeCroy-DDA-120-Superoscilloscop/153468661713?hash=item23bb71efd1:g:CFsAAOSwJi1cxurx&frcectupt=true(Printer/Floppy out of order)Actual 21€ but with pricelimit.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 07:16:53 pm
content: Does it run Space Invaders?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 07:30:27 pm
content: By the way :Quote

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 09:41:59 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 05, 2019, 03:20:25 pmDo you have cell with a good camera? Or if you can get hold of a digitizer for VGA, I think the WS3000 has VGA outputQuoteQuoteI asked a former member Who Shall Not Be Named () and he said this:QuoteAre you sure your instrument is not defective?Quote from: nctnico on May 05, 2019, 04:24:32 pmI also asked the same person about the 54845 and I'll just copy in his reply as it's too much to repeat from memory:QuoteIt's now mood since you have your scope but I guess you should have had a better look at the Wavepro when you were lookingSo Mr FuzzyOnion should probably not consider the 54845 as an alternative for the WS3000, right?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 09:54:40 pm
content: QuoteQuiet sure.Lecroy itself stated some finding issues as true.I think, the hardware is sometimes overwhelmed with the lecroy standards, especially with the Maui UI.Therefore the "Z" models were launched.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 10:12:42 pm
content: @MrNutts: Sounds like Wuerstchenhund to me and he always was a bit more positive about Lecroy than others.I still disagree about serviceability of the PC part and performance. And lets not forget the size and weight of the Wavepro 900 series

author: FuzzyOnion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 03:38:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Nutts on May 05, 2019, 09:41:59 pmBuying two scopes is, of course for me, not a credible option - especially considering my intended use. Getting the 2465 off the bench will free up some much needed room depth-wise. Mr. Nutts, thank you for your insights and comments. It's clear that I'm pretty much behind the times as far as using digital scopes. I've kept up with what has been going on as far as advances in current scopes, but have no real hands-on experience other than my brief time with the Keysight last year. There seems to be a lot of differences of opinion about various scopes and manufacturers. Some borne out of experiences and some from long held biases. As far as analog scopes go, I guess I would always be biased toward Tek scopes purely based on my experiences. After spending more than 3 months searching and evaluating what I considered realistic options, the 3054 is by far the best package I've found for my specific circumstance.I placed my order on Friday and got a target ship date of May 14. I've already been going through the manual and it's going to be a wild ride when the scope arrives. I've started a list of stuff I want to do after I get it set up on the bench. Direct FFT of a 432MHz transceiver - single and two tone - will it work correctly? I don't know yet, but I'm looking forward to comparing it to the spectrum analyzer.I looked briefly at the specs for the 54845. Does it really have an LS120 "super floppy" drive? I do recollect the old Zip drives from years ago, but don't really remember the Sony version. Time marches on.Cheers

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 03:50:47 pm
content: It has the LS120 drive. Before I bought the 54845 I'd never seen one before and I used to have a PC repair service in the late 90's to make some extra money while studying (beats bringing newspapers around or working in a grocery store).

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 08:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 05, 2019, 10:12:42 pmShhht, don't say his name!QuoteI found him to be quite objective. He seems to know all these scopes inside out, not just the Lecroy scopes, and he is quite open when it comes to their pro's and con'sSo far everything he has told me has shown to be correct, so at least I have no reason not to believe himQuoteYes, the Wavepro is certainly a bit largerThe 54845 datasheet states the dimensions (H x W x D) as 216mm/8.50" x 437mm/17.19" x 440mm/17.34". The Wavepro 960 datasheet states 264mm/10.4" x 397mm/15.65" x 453mm/17.85". So the Wavepro is a bit higher and deeper but a little less wideAs to weight, the 54845 is listed as 12kg/26.5lbs and the Wavepro as 14kg/31lbs. That's less than I thought for the Wavepro (I once had to schlepp a Wavepro 7000 which has a similar size but which weighted a ton)But that slightly larger case comes with the benefit of a nice large 10/4" display instead of the small 8.4" in the 54845 (and the wavepro can use the full display area for waveform display)And all functions on the Wavepro are directly available via knobs and pushbuttons while on the 54845 you will need a mouse for all but the very basic functions

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 08:58:42 pm
content: Quote from: FuzzyOnion on May 06, 2019, 03:38:34 pmI know what you mean. As a student I had a small room and any of the scopes discussed here would have been too largeThankfully I have a lot of space now so I started to buy more gear than I really needQuoteYou're welcome but frankly I'm by no means an expert and am still learning. But especially regarding scopes I learned a lot from this one guy and that has now helped me so much in my internship and also in my current job. So I thought it would be useful to share his viewsQuoteWhat I learned so far that is that if you want an analog scope and you buy Tek you get the best in class and if you want a digital scope and you buy Tek you get the worst in class. On my college most scopes were Tek, and they really sucked at every levelI only used the WS3000 at the last place for a few occasions but it didn't appear slow to me. The touchscreen often required a firm press but otherwise it worked as fine as the Keysight 3000X they hadQuoteI'm not a RF guy but I guess you'll see spurious signals caused by the FFT process and a much lower dynamic range. On the other side, you can take a snapshot of a signal even if it's bandwidth is large, something that's difficult with a swept spectrum analyzerQuoteFrom what I know all the 54800 series scopes had LS120 drives. I have the successor model Infinum 8000 which looks similar but has a much improved architecture and instead of the LS120 an USB portI once had a HP laptop (early Pentium era) that had a LS120 drive but I had no disks. Later when the laptop was gone someone gave me a stack of new LS120 disks. Oh wellIt doesn't seem the LS120 format catched on, unlike ZIP disks

author: Mr Nutts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 04:05:27 pm
content: Quote from: FuzzyOnion on May 06, 2019, 03:38:34 pmPlease let us know how you get on with it when your WS3000 arrives

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 07:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 05, 2019, 06:34:37 pmThe bids went up to little over 100 euro. Now let's see if the seller is wise enough to sell it for this price or relists it and gets less (after all it is pick-up only).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 07:59:41 pm
content: QuoteAh, doesn´t saw this, sorry.QuoteHe would, the minimum price wasn´t reached and I´m curious about what price is in his mind.A friend of mine do the 2 oscilloscope thing, buying a new, cheap asian scope for everyday use and a few weeks ago an older 1Ghz lecroy additional.If I had the space here I would do it also.By the way:https://www.ebay.de/itm/LeCroy-HDO4024-Oszilloskop-200MHz-2-5GS-s-4-Kanal-12-5Mpts-Kanal-12-Bit-HD/293022646470?hash=item443982c0c6:g:rGkAAOSw8ihcmgeU&frcectupt=trueToo cheap to be true...

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 07, 2019, 07:59:41 pmThe thing is in Nigeria and only ships to Germany? ? ? ? ? ?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:33:36 pm
content: Yepp….Edit:I can read "worldwide"

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:46:30 pm
content: But if you check the S/H dropbox, isn't it only Germany?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 09:00:07 pm
content: Ugh, you´re right.....definitely a fake offer.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 07:49:57 pm
content: While these ones are no fakes:Wavesurfer 424Wavesurfer 454To be honest and because of my experience with the WS3000, I would go for the 454 If I had a need to.