Digikey's overseas monstrous tax - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: SolarSunrise
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 09:53:29 pm
content: About 5 years ago I ordered a small batch of ARM development boards from Digikey. I was living in France at that time but since my order was over 100$, free shipping was available. But when the package arrived, I had to pay like 50 euros for the tax! Crazy!Is this normal for overseas shipping? Or is it because I ordered it fromDigikey.comand notDigikey.fr? Please tell me your overseas experience with Digikey guys!Thanks as always!Note: The reason why I am asking now is because recently I might have in a little production run of a project I'm working on. Digikey turns out to have some cheap parts than my main supplier, mouser. Any help is appreciated as always!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 09:55:38 pm
content: That's nothing to do with Digikey, it's your own countries import taxes.

author: SolarSunrise
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 09:58:23 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 20, 2014, 09:55:38 pmThen is there a work-around to this problem? Like avoiding certain mailing services etc.?PS: Thanks for the fast reply though. Wow only took like 2 seconds. Now I can take a deep breath knowing it was not Digikey's fault. I wonder if it has anything to do with the ".fr" extension though.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 10:07:01 pm
content: Bringing in a product without paying the required duties or import tax is called smuggling. Usually illegal, arguably unethical, practiced by Han Solo and Mal Reynolds, but usually not as exciting as they make it seem.

author: ohmineer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 10:07:27 pm
content: Digikey seems to operate exclusively from USA. I read somewhere that it has an agreement with Europe countries so that when you import some electronic components you have to pay import taxes and probably VAT. This is the only and legal way of doing these kind of things. I was charged with a 22,41% of total value of my purchaseThere are other providers that operate directly from Europe such as RS Online, Mouser or Element 14 (Farnell). In my case, the funny thing was that even adding the taxes, Digikey was still cheaper.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 10:19:31 pm
content: There are companies like shipito.com which give you an American address and you can buy stuff and have the packages shipped to them. When several packages arrive, you can choose to have them shipped to you in one single larger package and with a carrier you prefer.This is useful when you want to buy something but the company only uses DHL or some other couriers that charge their own separate fees for dealing with vat and customs fees. A lot of companies also do free shipping within US, so you'll only pay once to ship several packages across ocean.However, the company I mention above .. and pretty much ALL the legitimate companies in this business, will require you to declare the real value of the items in the package (if they don't see the invoice attached to package) and when your package arrives in the country, you'll still have to pay your VAT and maybe customs fees.Here in Romania, laws say I pay VAT for anything above around 15-20 euro, but customs officers usually don't bother with stuff below maybe 100 euro. Couriers do bother though, DHL did the math and charged me 2 or 3% (default) customs fee for a 250 dollar package from Digikey.Also, here there's no customs fees for online orders that are valued under 150 euro (or was it dollars.. I don't know).Anyway, the point is that Digikey isn't screwing you. You pay VAT and you may have to pay customs fee. The only thing you can do is to reduce the shipping costs using a method like the one described above.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:04:04 am
content: Quote from: SolarSunrise on March 20, 2014, 09:58:23 pmIn Australia, yes, you simply divide your order into lots under the AU$1000 (inc shipping) custom threshold.You don't think I bought all my uCurrent production parts at once do youEach country has their own rules and limits.Even buying from the Digikey (and Mouser) Australian sites does not exclude me from paying GST on the parts for example for anything over $1K, and they charge a premium for the AU sites. So it's usually cheaper to buy form the US site and get the bank to do the credit card company/bank to do the money conversion (+ international bank fee).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:07:28 am
content: Quote from: mariush on March 20, 2014, 10:19:31 pmHere in Australia that won't help, it doesn't matter who you send by, if it's over $1K (in shipping) you pay a customs fee + GST.Sending by the courier is actually worse, because they have rigid deals in place with customs where they are their own mailing house, and hence will automatically hold any package over the customs limit. The courier company will collect the customs fee themselves and pass onto the government.The courier companies demand the value up front, and it's all tracked with the barcode, so it's impossible to slip anything through.If sending by regular postal service it's pretty much pot luck if they check the hand written value on the outside of the box.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:09:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2014, 12:04:04 amAren't you GST registered to claim it back? (I'm assuming GST works similar to VAT in the UK)

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:11:43 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2014, 12:09:13 amYou get the GST back, but over $1000 they can charge duty as well as the GST.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:15:43 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2014, 12:09:13 amYes, I can claim the GST back, but I still have to eat the customs duty fee, processing fee, and the poor exchange rate if I buy through the Australia Digikey and Mouser web sites. Even with 10 shipment costs instead of one, it's still cheaper to break into lots under $1K and avoid it all. Plus I get them quicker. If it's over $1K it will be at least a few days extra. Some courier companies are faster and more efficient at contacting you and clearing that than others though.One of my uCurrent parts (a $5K reel, so no avoiding) got stuck for many weeks in customs at the courier depot.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:33:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2014, 12:15:43 amCouriers are generally good at getting stuff through customs, as delays make their service look bad.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:37:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2014, 12:07:28 amI didn't mean it as a way to avoid customs and vat, but rather saving on shipping fees.For example, if I buy from Digikey a small quantity of parts I'd pay 60$ shipping through DHL, if I buy something from Mouser I may pay 30$ to get package through UPS. I can send both with free shipping to US adress and pay a company 10$ to consolidate both packages and send them through another courier or plain parcel post for 45$. So instead of paying 90$ shipping, I pay 45$ shipping (airmail + 10$ fee for that company.We don't even have that 1000$ limit, VAT is paid for anything above around 15-25 euro. But like I said, the customs officer just doesn't bother filling forms for small packages, hence why sometimes it's worth getting packages through regular post instead of couriers like DHL who will charge customs and VAT even for a 30 euro package.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:39:01 am
content: Quote from: mariush on March 21, 2014, 12:37:06 amThat other courier company will likely charge a lot more. Digikey and Mouser get very cheap bulk rates.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:43:28 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2014, 12:33:27 amIn NZ the main couriers seem to have 'deals' with customs to automatically charge GST if the order is over the limit ($400 in NZ).Or at least, UPS and Fedex seem to.Whenever i order over $400 using either of them i always get a call saying GST is owning.However, regular mail/EMS/china post etc.. is much more random and usually even stuff many times over the limit sneaks through without a problem.I think it's because of the volume of mail coming through the cheap postage/courier services. Customs don't have the time to inspect every package so unless your box attracts attention for some reason it gets through without anyone looking at the value.

author: XpsikotiX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 06:45:59 am
content: Hello,This post really confuses me ... i never made a order from this international sites, i do my buying locally, but for some time now i wanted to buy something from mouser and on the cart page i get this message :Incoterms:DDPAll prices include duty and customs fees on select shipping methods.Free shipping on most orders over € 65 (EUR)The shipping is 20 euro for orders below 65 and free over... Now comes my confusion: what exactly include duty and customs fee? can someone who ordered can tell me? Does duty refer to VAT or its another tax of a tax? And if they shipp by currier and they pay the customs doesn't that mean that they pay the VAT also?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:08:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 21, 2014, 12:04:04 amSure, and here in the EU, when customs figures out you are doing this they consider you are trying to circumvent taxes and customs and slap you with an extra fine. How do they figure out? E.g. if they find more than one shipment from the same source to the same destination in a lot coming in. E.g. in the same flight.

author: just_fib_it
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:28:15 am
content: Quote from: XpsikotiX on March 21, 2014, 06:45:59 amThere's a big difference in how Digikey and Mouser handle international orders. When you order from Digikey you have to pay VAT, import duties and courier handling fees. When you order from Mouser this is all included in the price.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:30:40 am
content: Quote from: XpsikotiX on March 21, 2014, 06:45:59 amAll, they will pay custom fees and VAT, but that VAT will be charged to you by Mouser first. It's included in the final invoice when you make the purchase.

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:31:48 am
content: Quote from: XpsikotiX on March 21, 2014, 06:45:59 amIncoterms tell you all you need to know. See:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms#Allocations_of_costs_to_buyer.2Fseller_according_to_Incoterms_2010

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:32:29 am
content: Quote from: just_fib_it on March 21, 2014, 11:28:15 amIt's included in the final invoice, but VAT it is not included in the listings prices.At last in Mouser Spain.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:45:02 am
content: Quote from: XpsikotiX on March 21, 2014, 06:45:59 amVAT = duty, value added tax etcYou're in European Union.If you order from a country in European Union, you don't pay customs fees. If you have a company you may not pay VAT, if you choose to. As a regular person, you have to pay it.The prices you see in the online store (usually) already have the VAT that's valid in the country the store is located. The online store will add the VAT (duty) difference between their country and yours to the price at checkout (or will recalculate the prices if you're logged in or tell them your country), if there is any difference. For example, UK has 20% VAT and Romania has 24% VAT, when placing some orders on amazon.co.uk, at checkout the price will be slightly higher because the price will be recalculated with the 24% VAT)If you order from a country outside European Union, you pay for the product without any VAT that's valid in that country. Depending on the value and contents of the package that comes to you in Italy, you have to pay customs fees and VAT.From country to country, there are some thresholds - if the value of your package goes over that threshold, you pay customs fees and/or you pay VAT. In Romania, these thresholds are about 15-25 euro for VAT, 150 euro for customs fees. In Italy these values may be different. Also, what's inside package matters, for example if your package is worth 100 euro but it's a category of products considered luxury or not excepted (or exempt) from customs fees, then you may pay customs fees even if you're below that threshold for customs fees.Some courier companies (like DHL) estimate how much the VAT and customs fee will be for the package and add them in advance to the shipping costs, other courier or shipping companies don't.For example, Amazon.com will estimate at checkout the customs fees and the VAT and charge you customs and VAT in advance, and refund you the excess if they estimated too much.If shipping company or courier doesn't take the VAT and customs in advance, you will have to pay the customs fees and/or VAT (if any) when you pick up the package.The customs fee depends on the category of product but there's also a sort of default/flat customs fee that it's used when they just don't want to bother searching for the customs % for each item. Here in Romania, it's 2 or 3% of the value of the package, I'm not exactly sure because it's very rare when I pay customs fees.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:50:56 am
content: something more "hilarious" (not for me ..)I had the opportunity to get a free dev board from I dont remember which company in the states.it was an end of stock and they gave them to who asked for it, free shipping.butthey declared the real value of the board so $250 to the customs ...I had to pay 50€ when it arrived in france ...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 11:56:05 am
content: Quote from: mariush on March 21, 2014, 11:45:02 amNo, not in the EU for private customers. It is always the VAT from the country where the store is located. If you order from a country with 24% VAT you pay 24% VAT. If you order from a country with 20% VAT you will pay 20%. No adjustment of differences.Or as they explain it herehttp://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/mail_order_distance/index_en.htmQuoteThings are different for businesses from a certain threshold onwards.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:17:58 pm
content: From page linked:http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/consumers/mail_order_distance/index_en.htmQuoteQuote

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 12:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: just_fib_it on March 21, 2014, 11:28:15 amI noticed that as of about the start of his year, Digikey have sorted themselves out for UK orders placed on the UK site and charge VAT at the time of ordering, but their system is still too dumb to spot orders on the US site for UK delivery, which still works as before, and you don't get the free shipping.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 01:08:36 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 21, 2014, 12:17:58 pmWhat you quote are the threshold for small businesses. And the second one is for the provisioning of services, not goods. Non of this applies for ordering parts within the EU as an individual. When was the last time you ordered 35000/100000 Euro of parts, are therefore considered a small business and did get VAT registered in order to do the business? Or your parts turned out to be services, not parts?So again, when you order parts as an individual in the EU there is no calculation of VAT difference. You pay the VAT of the seller's state.

author: XpsikotiX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 03:16:41 pm
content: Thank you for your answers but they confused me moreso i made a order with what i wanted to buy and i had to pay the VAT but under the order value says that duty and customs paid by mouser ... so what did they pay exactly? 2 or 3 % of the order?"By submitting your order you agree to these terms and conditions.For additional information on availability, click on the Mouser Part No.MERCHANDISE TOTAL:€ 99,08DELIVERY CHARGE:€ 0,00VAT TOTAL:€ 21,80ORDER TOTAL:€ 120,88Incoterms: DDP (Duty and customs fees paid by Mouser)."Also this worries me : "This product may require a licence to export from the United States."

author: komet
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 03:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: XpsikotiX on March 21, 2014, 03:16:41 pmThey paid the 21.80 to your government for you, so you don't have to. You pay 120.88 and that's it.The export license is also automatic, they ask you whether you are building a nuclear weapon, you say no, license granted. This is online during the order process.

author: XpsikotiX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2014, 04:07:42 pm
content: Quote from: komet on March 21, 2014, 03:37:12 pmI guess the confusion was here : practically they pay the customs and taxes with my money.... i tough i did not have to pay the taxes at all, but i do only that i pay them to mouser instead of my country customs...

author: SolarSunrise
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 10:46:00 pm
content: Wow. This thread went two pages! Anyway, the reason I think I payed idiotic amount of VAT was because I used their US VERSION of the site. So if you are not living in the US, USE YOUR COUNTRY'S VERSION OF THE SITE. This is a huge pain in the rear since I'll have to painfully read through french....

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 11:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: SolarSunrise on March 29, 2014, 10:46:00 pmExcept for Australian customers who are far better off using the US site instead of the Australian one.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 11:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on March 29, 2014, 11:29:52 pmI'm curious. What are the benefits?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 11:42:53 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVDAgreed. I ALWAYS use the US site to order from OZ, especially Mouser and Newark. For cases of expensive shipping, I use aUSA address as well .. the markups (due to illegal "rep" deals with X-ON etc) are ridiculous. It's getting a bit better for us,with the $30 fixed shipping, but you really have to keep an eye on them !! EU must be tough though.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2014, 11:54:41 pm
content: I can't say that I've ever compared prices on digikey US vs AUS sites. Aside from the $30 postage fee, are you guys saying the actual prices may be marked up on the oz site?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 12:15:40 am
content: Quote from: AlfBazI just brought up 2 browsers - 1 with my USA based account, 1 as a newbie user from OZ (recognised as AUS)Items I usually buy - (a) AUS (b) USA ... #1a) $5.79 1b) $4.29 , #2a) $133.00 2b) $99.00Some are marked up even higher. Mouser is the worst culprit (to date). Shipping variations / conditions are even worse !!If I use my USA address / account to ship o/seas versus newbie AUS

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 12:26:10 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on March 29, 2014, 11:33:46 pmThe Australian version of the Mouser site (and Digikey too I'm pretty sure) is more expensive than just the exchange rate. They tout the prepayment of GST and duty, but if the order is under AUD $1000, we don't pay it anyway. Even the "free freight for over $200" (or whatever the amount is) doesn't make up for it.EDIT: I don't have specific USA accounts/addresses with either company. I simply choose the USD option and site area.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 12:28:48 am
content: Quote from: digsys on March 30, 2014, 12:15:40 amI guess I should have done that, apologies for my lazinessQuoteNow that I have a job againI may have to look into one of these mailing houses, especially for ebay purchases

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 12:35:40 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on March 30, 2014, 12:26:10 amFor now. The cockheads in Canberra are reviewing it, or at least leaving it to the state cockheads. Either way we'll get hit twice, the Australia tax followed by GST

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 12:55:28 am
content: Quote from: AlfBazCurrently, and so far for all (?) USA suppliers, you ONLY need to tick the "change country" flag !! No need for a real USA address.I say "currently" because it didn't used to be that easy, which is why I went to the trouble of finding a local address (I used totravel there on a few occasions, so it was actually easy). I find the rules change all the time, so just keep an eye on it :-)

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2014, 01:47:16 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on March 30, 2014, 12:35:40 amThe GST doesn't bother me at all since I claim it back anyway, but it would impact non-business (and non GST registered business) people.