Cheap PCBs for really low volume - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fantasma25
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:01:44 am
content: Hello. I'm a beginner at PCB prototyping and I'm working on a small power supply project in eagle that I'd like to build. The problem is that most PCB manufacturers charge pretty much the same for one board as for 50 or 100 boards (between $200 and $300 USD), and since this would my first project, I would only want to make maybe 2 or 3 boards. Do you know some manufacturer that charges like $5 or $10 or maybe $20 USD per board? Or what should I do in this case?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:03:12 am
content: what are your board dimensions? and layers?there are plenty, seedstudio for one,

author: Fantasma25
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:12:16 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on January 05, 2014, 01:03:12 amThe board is about 1.03 x 2.24 inches and has only 2 layers. All through-hole.Quote from: Rerouter on January 05, 2014, 01:03:12 amI will take a look at those. Thanks!

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:29:06 am
content: I have usedLaen's PCB order (now OSH Park). Really cheap, and plenty good enough for my purposes. Note the lead time info before ordering.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:57:09 am
content: I would second Oshpark. It is $5 per sqinch and you get three boards.It is also a good submission process for your gerber files. They show you what *they* think your board will look like and each layer to help catch problems.Just be careful since they can only accept a single drill file and quality can vary.

author: Fantasma25
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:52:16 pm
content: Cool! Oshpark seems very promising (and cheap). Let's see how it goes. Thanks!

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:55:36 pm
content: iTead studio is even cheaper, not the best PCB quality but good enough.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:59:56 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/can-anyone-recommend-a-cheap-easy-to-deal-with-pcb-manufacturer/?topicseen

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 03:27:05 am
content: Elecrow.They have free color soldermask and service is better than iTead (not to say that iTead's is bad, just Elecrow's better).

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 05:39:56 am
content: You could make them.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 08:36:56 am
content: OSHpark/itead/seeedstudio

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 10:35:29 am
content: If you do try Oshpark try to inform me how it goes

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 06:06:04 pm
content: Anybody know a place to get 18x12" double sided boards for less than $5000? Thanks.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 08:27:06 pm
content: Ohspark may possibly be able to do it, if so there pricing would be 3 for ~$1000,

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 08:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: scientist on March 06, 2014, 06:06:04 pmalmost anywhere I would think.

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 03:04:35 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 06, 2014, 08:34:16 pmIf you are paying that or more, you really need to find a new manufacturer... They are tearing you a new one at those rates.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 07:44:56 am
content: Quote from: kizzap on March 07, 2014, 03:04:35 amI checked iTead and 5 pieces of 18x12" two-layer PCBs costs 310$. So 62$ a piece.

author: justtim
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:23:11 pm
content: OshPark is really good and inexpensive but the quality can vary.The attached picture shows the result using the same board files but ordered with two different orders about 24 hours apart. I doubt that any place could do better than the one on the left, but for my project the one on the right isn't something I would want to sell because the customer will be soldering the through-hole devices and I would be a little embarrassed by the plating not being aligned to the holes. Also the wavy outline won't even work for my project where it needs to fit tightly into a cutout of the same shape (the break-away protrusions don't matter). If I really needed to, I could order a panel and cut them out myself since I do have a CNC that could do that, but the misaligned plating is an issue for me.I'm kinda new to all of this and so I may be a little naive to what can be done and may be way to picky.I too would like to know of any place that provides the kind of consistent quality as shown by the board on the left, with ENIG, and colors besides green.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 05:35:12 pm
content: Quote from: justtim on March 10, 2014, 04:23:11 pmShow them that second board pic and there is a good chance they will run it again for you free of charge, I got a board from them once where they screwed up the milling of it and they re-did it super quick.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 06:55:28 pm
content: I have used OshPark a couple of times, and this last batch were ok apart from the silkscreen layer. Along the top side it is fine, but the same size text along the bottom is broken in parts.PS. Maybe I went below their minimum size.........Ian.

author: justtim
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 06:58:58 pm
content: Thanks MatCat, I'll give that a try.I've placed about 80 orders with them (hundreds of boards) and never thought to ask them to redo an order. The fonts were a real problem at first (more like dots than lines on small vector fonts so hardly readable with some orders) but they now have high quality fonts at any size. I did show them these two boards asking about the chances of getting some consistency and was told there's no way to guarantee that, but I didn't think to ask them to redo the ones I considered bad. I'll ask them to do that and get back with the results.I'm nearing the end of prototyping for several projects and about to go into production, so quality will now be an issue. I really like what Laen has done with OshPark so would like to stay with him as long as possible and even promote what he does in a very positive way even if I go elsewhere for very large quantities. Most of my boards are small but since I do have a CNC to do the cutting out of multiple boards I can order large panels if need be. But I do want to send out a high quality product with nice copper alignment and easy to read fonts.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 07:38:25 pm
content: I use OSH mainly for prototypes, I wouldn't consider them for production runs, it would cost me too much, I use elecrow for that (they do vscore paneling if you do small boards, makes it REAL cheap).

author: justtim
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 07:49:49 pm
content: Thanks MatCat. Can you post a picture of one of the boards? Is the alignment of the plating like in my first board in the picture? Would you know if they use the LPI silkscreening process? Those fonts (vcc, gnd, and 3-10 numbering) are 0.4064 to 0.6096 vector fonts which are unreadable without the high quality LPI process that all of the fabs that OshPark uses are now using.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 09:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: justtim on March 10, 2014, 07:49:49 pmElecrow board or OSH Park?

author: justtim
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 10:05:17 pm
content: I was wanting to see the Elecrow but I just found out the smallest text they do is 32mil. I need down to 16mil like the vcc and gnd on the boards in the pictures.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 05:08:40 am
content: The 'good' board appears to have oversized drills, leaving you with almost no ring remaining..OSHPark fabs unfortunately vary in output quality somewhat.

author: justtim
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 08:26:58 am
content: I made those that way, with the small annular ring.Because they send their boards to various fab houses the results are unpredictable but for the price are still the best thing going for doing prototype work. The not-so-good ones have no defects that would cause a problem for prototyping - it's really just a cosmetic issue that probably bothers me more than it would most people.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 11:58:03 am
content: Quote from: Fantasma25 on January 05, 2014, 01:01:44 amWe use PCB Zone in New Zealand for low number prototypes.http://www.pcbzone.netThey have an on-line calculator so you know what you're up for before you order.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 04:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: justtim on March 14, 2014, 08:26:58 amYou're lucky they didn't miss with the oversized holes, then.

author: mountain-lee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 08:43:02 am
content: Quote from: Fantasma25 on January 05, 2014, 01:01:44 am5pcs? Please try NexPCB PCB Package --http://www.nexpcb.com/collections/pcb?and refer to customer stories:http://www.nexpcb.com/pages/successful-casesandhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lthiery/apitronics-wireless-platform/

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 10:24:03 am
content: $140 for 5 Eurocard size boards? What are they made of? Crystallized unicorn fart? That's like 2x more expensive than Elecrow and with Elecrow you get 100% etest (NextPCB doesn't say it) and different PCB thicknesses. They are also very comunicative.

author: mountain-lee
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 02, 2014, 02:13:05 am
content: Sure, If you only compare the bare cost of the PCB.But NexPCB offer free shipping via DHL, ROHS and IPC - A - 600F which I do valued it.For what I understand the IPC-A-600F has specified the standard of the board.But I will check with them next time since they do not limited my thickness request.

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 06:15:41 am
content: I also have used pcbcart in the past, especially if the design is different spec (thickness, tin plate, etc). Also , they break out the NRE and per-board price making exact reorders cheap.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 10:23:24 am
content: New to the game:DirtyPCBs. Low quality, slow but very cheap.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2014, 01:42:57 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on April 12, 2014, 10:23:24 amThe price points aren't that far off from elecrow, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same fab house behind the scenes, I do plan to do a test run with them and compare.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 11:41:26 am
content: Hi,Does anybody have any experience with Dirty PCBs?I am wondering what their quality is like, and what the lead times would be generally (I am in the UK)?I am guessing the quality and delivery would be similar to that of ITead or Seeed?I found them through another link on here to PCB shopper, and they are dirt cheap, but are they worth saving the few extra $$?Thanks in advance.

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 02:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on April 17, 2014, 11:41:26 amThe look and smell like they might be using the same manufacturing labs that Seeed, itead, etc. all use. So I would suspect they would be around that quality.That said, they areverynew, thus it is possible no-one here has tried them yet.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 02:54:10 pm
content: Ah ok, they are bleeding edge new I take it?Thanks for the info!

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 03:03:20 pm
content: Dirtypcb was started as a joke.They say they will fulfil orders placed via the website but I personally wouldn't bother with them when you can just as easily use seeed.http://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/22jie5/no_bull_just_crappy_pcbs/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 03:12:00 pm
content: Checkhttp://pcbshopper.com. you enter the PCB parameter and it finds you a cheap manufacturer.I had good experience with oshpark.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2014, 07:45:24 pm
content: Hi,I did, Dirty PCB came out top lolBy quite a margin also hence the ask.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 10:03:00 am
content: With any luck my dirty PCBs come on monday...

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 10:32:28 am
content: Quote from: 8086 on April 17, 2014, 03:03:20 pmI used to get my boards from Seeed. I'd wait until I had enough to qualify for free shipping.However Seeed no longer allow their boards to qualify for free shipping.At $24 for 10x10 cm including free world wide delivery, Dirty PCB will get my next order!

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 10:40:57 am
content: I just wanted to try them for a goof off design. Wouldn't use them for anything important until I've seen their work at least a few times.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 05:55:46 am
content: While on the topic of cheap PCB's, for cheap stencils I am usinghttp://oshstencils.com, very good price for small boards and quick delivery time (shipped within 2-3 days, from the US). The default thickness is 3mil but the 5mil version works better for me (same price, just make sure to select it).They also sells a plastic jig to hold the boards but you can use old pcb's instead if you prefer. Each order comes with a credit card size spatula to spread the paste.Like OshPark it accepts eagle files so I don't bother with Gerbers.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 12:45:28 pm
content: I've got access to a really nice LPKF mill.At $24 for 10x10cm from dirty - it's not worth the time milling.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 05:42:39 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on April 20, 2014, 11:48:19 amOSH Park, might be in the US, but even with good shipping method it's still going to be cheaper then $300.

author: fs
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 12:47:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fantasma25 on January 05, 2014, 01:01:44 amI've been quite pleased withwww.hackvana.com- I've only done a few boards with them, but they were spot on. At the bottom of the homepage, theres a link to a "Guide to Hackvana PCBs" Google Doc that explains the PCB options / prices / design rules / ordering process. Looks like you'd get 5x your boards for USD $31+, or if you re-arranged it to fit on less than 50mm x 50mm (1.96" square), you'd get 10 for $19+. And for bonus points, Mitch is very helpful to deal with.I've no affiliation with them, other than being a happy customer.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2014, 01:39:59 am
content: I'm going to go with dirty, just cause of the free shipping and free color choice.

author: jridley
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 02:31:36 am
content: OSHPark absolutely rocks. Their ordering system is very good - as someone who does only a board or two a year, it's comforting to see their very good renderings of what the boards will look like, to be sure I haven't missed something dumb.I've ordered two boards from them and they've been fantastic quality both times.Unless you're in a real hurry, it's probably cheaper to have OSHPark make the boards than to make them yourself. If you ARE in a hurry, it still might be faster unless you already know how to make boards and are pretty good at it. Until I heard about OSHPark on the podcast when Laen was on, I was trying to etch my own boards and it was a mess.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 08:49:25 am
content: Quote from: jridley on April 24, 2014, 02:31:36 amFor small batches they are twice as expensive as Seeed or am i missing something?

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 08:58:02 pm
content: OSHPark (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/pcb-fab-hackvana-vs-oshpark/)doesn't have a perfect track record like dirtypcbs.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 09:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: scientist on April 24, 2014, 08:58:02 pmDirtypcbs doesn't have any meaningful record yet anyway, they've only existed for one month.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 09:06:11 pm
content: I was being facetious.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2014, 09:09:01 pm
content: Quote from: scientist on April 24, 2014, 09:06:11 pmOh, sorry

author: hackvana
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 04:02:07 am
content: Quote from: fs on April 22, 2014, 12:47:37 pmThanks fs, I try really hard to deliver the best service of anyone. Folks, come chat online, it's fun and we have a very friendly crowd.http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=hackvanaMitch.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 04:06:18 am
content: Quote from: hackvana on May 03, 2014, 04:02:07 amI just tried but did not pass the captcha. Would be nice to have a read only mode for non committed visitors.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 05:45:38 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on April 18, 2014, 10:03:00 amDid you get them yet? Any photos?

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 11:02:23 am
content: Nope, nothing. Didn't care so far because I was spammed with work and then travelling. Will enquire today.

author: kodon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 06:26:49 pm
content: What would be the cheapest place for 209x68mm PCB with black soldermask?The PCB itself should be really simple:-single layer-some routed holes-no pads, just traces-no silk screenThe problem seems to be the size vs. price. Almost any quality works if it's nicely even black.The PCB would be a front panel sort-of-thing and I would like to try ordering PCB:s from a real PCB factory.Almost every supplier is limited to max. 200x200mm dimensions and if not, the price is really high.I checked the PCB shopper site, Elecrow, Seeedstudio and IteadStudio etc... to me OSH Park seems the only option for large, cheap and "crappy" quality PCB:s or is it?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 08:49:45 pm
content: @kodon, can't help you there but is it not possible to loose just those last 9mm and if it is a frontpanel extend with anodised alu plates of 4,5mm each side or some other filler?

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 10:00:37 pm
content: Quote from: con-f-use on May 12, 2014, 11:02:23 amConsidering you're in Austria you probably won't get them for a while.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 06:21:59 pm
content: Igot my boards today.