Intel Analog FPGA's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 11:27:40 am
content: Hi,Today I saw this 64GSPS ADC and DAC inside new Intel FPGAs,https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/programmable/analog-rf-fpga.htmlWhat would be their price (I mean the real price not Digikey etc prices!) ? should we see Nextgen scopes soon?what applications would you use them?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 08:00:46 pm
content: I wonder how much we can get them after 5 years, in 2025>Can we get them Around 100$ price, like the Xilinx Kintex?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:01:59 pm
content: Consider that ~15 years ago 65GSPS ADCs were available in 40nm CMOS technology, imagine what's being done today with 7 and 5nm CMOS technologyI expect to see new type ADC architectures emerging from the labs soon, exciting times indeed!! We can thank the Smartphones for these advancements, since they fuel the semiconductor technology, which in turn enables the advanced architectures and Systems on Chip.Best,

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:05:47 pm
content: Here's a clue as to likely price(from OP's linked page)

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:19:25 pm
content: QuoteYou mean an arm and a leg? maybe for the public! but not for the real customer. Also wafer prices and making a 7nm mask that is used for cellphone ARM processors are still the same, so it can not be that high.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on February 11, 2021, 09:19:25 pmGo take a look at how much Xilinx RFSoC cost, and see if you can even get them at any price outside US without getting drowned in an ocean of paperwork and bureaucracy. That should give you a clue as to how much these things will cost, and how "easy" it will be to get.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:59:18 pm
content: Nice kit:https://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/zcu1285.html

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 10:10:25 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on February 11, 2021, 09:19:25 pmThe price will depend a lot on who the target customers are. If its mostly military, which fits with the pictures in the marketing material, the price will be very high, as they won't sell many and need to get their NRE back from a low volume. If the cellular people want these devices, the volumes will be reasonable, and the price won't be too crazy.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 10:25:17 pm
content: QuoteI bet it can be purchased at china after a few years for reasonable prices. the Chinese guys would do the paper work and volume purchase to push prices down, Like what they did for xilinx, you can get around 10X-20X lower prices,price at digikey around 2000USD at LCSC which is about 20-50% higher than taobao around 150USDhttps://lcsc.com/product-detail/CPLD-FPGA_XILINX-XC7K325T-2FFG900I_C396344.htmlSo maybe we could expect to get 1KUSD price for the partsQuote

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:50:14 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 11, 2021, 09:59:18 pmYeah, the price of a nice mid-range scope! ; )

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:54:34 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 11, 2021, 10:10:25 pmPricing will be the same as their other state of the art devices. Initially high as hell in small quantities, then gradually ramping down as production picks up.It would be pretty amazing to see a one chip scope, I mean one that's not struggling to reach 20 MHz. I don't see an indication of a CPU on chip, so maybe they are not SoCs, just RF FPGAs. I didn't find packages or sizes... but I doubt they are planning to support my favorite 100 pin QFP. lol

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:57:10 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on February 11, 2021, 10:25:17 pmI bet they aren't allowed to ship these parts out of the US.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:22:16 am
content: QuoteMany things has export limitations outside US before, But eventually you can find them in china. Just imagine 5 years from now, maybe we could get them under 500$ in chinaThen what would you do with them.Also I have some calculations in my mind,suppose that they have spent about 5M$ on making masks (which I highly doubt it, because they already owned everything for making the chips), also suppose that each wafer would produce only 100 chips, if they sell each chip for 10K$ after fabricating only 5 wafers, the mask cost would be covered! so why they do it in an stupid way! why not make 1000-10K wafers and sell chips for sub 100$ each, many many more customers would use them, we can find the chips every where like the sub 500$ scopes etc... in this way they would make way more profit and their money would return back in a very short time.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:40:45 am
content: That's the first devboard I've seen with water cooling.I doubt we'll see these in scopes - too expensive, and may have poor DC performance

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:51:26 am
content: ..and people using these are not going to be using a soldering iron that looks like this....

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:51:46 am
content: Why do you think water cooling is expensive!? if they fabricate it for masses ,it would be very cheap, like the car or fridge radiators, you can find very low cost parts for them, and they are very bigger and have used way more materials.