YouTube's latest idea: server-side ad injection - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 01:58:49 pm
content: From SponsorBlock (https://fosstodon.org/@sponsorblock/112603139898164385):QuoteSome reddit users confirmed that:https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/1de9kv5/youtube_is_currently_experimenting_with/

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 02:56:44 pm
content: They may take our attention, but they'll never take our mute button! And hopefully the FF still works.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 10:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: pqass on June 13, 2024, 02:56:44 pmAnything they do to handle ads differently from content can be used against them. That includes disabling seeking, we'll just have that trigger an automatic mute and blank.Also, unless there would be the exact same ads at the exact same times per video, wouldn't it be possible to download it multiple times and just reject what differs? (It would also generate multiple ad "views" which would make things interesting...)

author: Faranight
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:09:04 am
content: If they add ads directly into the video, then how are they going to serve videos without ads to paying subscribers?And if they keep some videos without ads for this purpose, how are they going to prevent non-subs from using addons that redirect the videos from ones with ads to ad-less?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:13:01 am
content: Hmmm. I hope this doesn't cause issues for those of us who download Youtube videos to watch locally.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:37:48 am
content: That sounds nice.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:39:51 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 14, 2024, 06:13:01 amisn't that a criminal offense already?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:54:00 am
content: Quote from: shapirus on June 14, 2024, 06:39:51 amNot in Australia.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:59:57 am
content: Quote from: Faranight on June 14, 2024, 06:09:04 amSimples: same raw video and they know the user connected, so if that user is targeted for ads they periodically interrupt the stream and fill with the ad stream, then carry on. No need for more than one version of the video.Same technology, I'd imagine, that lets them insert personalised adverts - not all users see the same ad in a video. And not all users see adverts now anyway - I bet they don't have a zillion different versions of a video in storage, just the one that everyone sees.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 07:06:09 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 14, 2024, 06:54:00 amThat was a joke that I hope remains only a joke.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 09:08:53 am
content: Quote from: shapirus on June 14, 2024, 06:39:51 amCriminal offense, no.Civil lawsuit, yes, probably, especially if you agreed to their terms of service.Criminal offense or 'legal action' is propaganda many media companies use to put people off piracy and whatnot. But in reality, it's a civil law case at best (happens more in Germany). Most of the times they can't do much other than block your IP and send messages please not to do it again.Don't forget that for YT/Google, every user is a breathing data node ready to be mined, so the worst they can do is get people completely off their (advertising) platforms/reach.There are only a few cases where piracy is really illegal by criminal law, that can put you in jail. Think software piracy, computer crime, etc.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 12:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 14, 2024, 06:59:57 amThat would be easy to defeat with multiple downloads and comparing them. Only way to break that would be for each video to have the same ads at the same times for all users, but then that will allow Sponsorblock to work on injected ads.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 01:32:11 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on June 14, 2024, 06:39:51 amMaybe a Kangaroo court in New York can convict us a felon as well.For smart TVs this would actually be great if they do it. It hangs up switching video streams so often, with bad software.But YT started "offering" me 50 second long unskippable ads. Endless enshittification.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 02:46:23 pm
content: QuoteYes. So?Nothing is 100% perfect and I doubt if Google expect to catch every last viewer. They just need to make it not worthwhile for those users that would be put off - the hardcore that will jump through any hope to circumvent it probably aren't on their radar (unless they automate it for those that would otherwise succumb).But, since you mention it, how difficult would it be to check that the destination of two (or more) streams is the same place and just send the same thing, if it got to be a problem? OK, so maybe you download one stream today and another tomorrow, and now you don't have real-time viewing and, instead, a storage issue. Plus it would be trivial to ensure that every stream is unique, even with the very same video. So now the user is using a special tool to compare rendered output rather that stream data, and a bit later the videos will not just be unique in data but will display slightly differently. Now the user had another tool that compares rendered output but allows for a certain level of difference...I think you may need to rethink 'easy' and compare it with 'worthwhile'

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 03:21:34 pm
content: Quote from: Faranight on June 14, 2024, 06:09:04 amStreamingthem with ads doesn’t meanstoringthem with ads on the server. Nobody has said that the ads will be baked into the video itself, which they wouldn’t want because that’d mean the ads never change.Think of it like this: YouTube ads so far have basically been multiple video streams (the video, plus one for each ad), with one ad stream shown at a time with the video paused. The new way is more like cable TV, where it’s one stream.As for access control: surely you don’t believe that a URL is all that stands between subscription content and non-subscribers?!? Like, c’mon… surely you’ve seen newspaper websites that block an article page if you’re not subscribed. Nothing in the URL changes.

author: PwrElectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:56:28 pm
content: Some utube creators I watch now smoothy segue into a sponsored ad in the middle. At least with these its usually possible to move the slider past the ad to skip most of it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 07:39:25 pm
content: Quote from: Faranight on June 14, 2024, 06:09:04 amBigger issue is how to change the ads.Presumably it's a lossless transcode, they just add extra GOPs. Trivial to do on the fly.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 11:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 14, 2024, 02:46:23 pmSurprisingly hard if you take advantage of VPNs or proxies. Or multiple users can collaborate on that problem. (See below for how that could be done without sending full resolution videos between users.)QuoteThere are "fingerprinting" algorithms that can assign values to an image such that images that look nearly identical would have very close values, for easy comparison. A simple one would be to downscale each frame to something small like 240x135 (that's 1/8 of 1080p) and crush the bit depth to something like 5 bits per color. Good luck defeating that without introducing very obvious visual artifacts. But that's unlikely to be implemented in the first place, it would be quite costly to encode a new stream every time.It's also worth mentioning that MythTV implemented video ad detection like 2 decades ago, with a level of computing power less than a modern Raspberry Pi.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 12:16:22 am
content: As a corollary, will this further prevent third-party players to play YT videos, instead of having to use their browser player only?VLC used to work well for this, apparently it doesn't anymore already. Have been unable to play (stream) YT videos with VLC for a couple months. It did work fine before that.There are other players that still work, but for how long.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 12:42:39 am
content: Hopefully the ad is an individual chunk in the stream, then something like yt-dlp could be the best way to grab a local copy. Even if there needs to be a manual identification of the chunk which the user can discard.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 12:51:25 am
content: Broadcast TV ads were always "in the stream", and VCRs several decades ago could automatically detect and pause recording during them (I think it was a heuristic based on the audio and video levels), so this is just going back to that model - only with more computing power to detect the boundaries.Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 15, 2024, 12:16:22 amVLC still works for me.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 01:06:49 am
content: Quotethought they worked by the cue dot. the black+ white square that you used to see top right of the screen just before the ad break.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 03:00:14 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on June 14, 2024, 01:32:11 pmA word I'm going to start using far more often.Quote from: themadhippy on June 15, 2024, 01:06:49 amThat's only in the UK to my knowledge. Definitely not a thing in most parts of the world. I think some (most?) VCR's worked by detecting the brief fade-to-black between the main program and the first commercial. Then each commercial is typically played back-to-back with no (or very few) black frames in between, then fading back to black before the main program begins again.You can see an example of this at the 12:06 mark in this video:https://youtu.be/hFHYX96eZhU?feature=shared&t=726

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 10:09:28 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 15, 2024, 03:00:14 amThere's a reason that was voted "word of the year"https://americandialect.org/2023-word-of-the-year-is-enshittification/https://www.ft.com/content/6fb1602d-a08b-4a8c-bac0-047b7d64aba5amazingly not paywalled!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 09:23:05 am
content: I'm hearing reports that many users of Android-based TV's and various other devices are having a horrible experience. Not sure if this is tied to this garbage YouTube is trying, with injecting ads into video streams, but it's causing video to lock up while the audio keeps going.Brilliant.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 09:48:43 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 16, 2024, 09:23:05 amNowadays it seems normal that with new versions of software it functions worse than before. Take VLC, used to work fine with the recordings I make on my satbox. Now with the almost latest version of Linux Mint and VLC, when I skip forward to jump over commercials the sound starts to have dropouts for a couple of seconds before returning to normal proper working.And as a Linux user you are now discriminated against by some of the streaming providers. Like Canal+ (Canal digitaal) with their live tv in a browser. Worked fine until sometime last year. Called the service desk and got the simple answer "well you have to switch to windows then, don't you"They block it working on Linux because it would be to easy to create pirate copies of the content.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 12:31:01 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on June 16, 2024, 09:23:05 amIt is possible to do stream insertion properly, however, to prevent bugs, most likely these parameters need to be met, otherwise, you need to modify the players to adapt, or as you stream, you need to decode and re-encode everything:1. Insertion must be done on and between master key frames. (Note that with .h265 unlike .h264 has multiple key frames, so you need to be on a master all key frame replacement location for both video streams)2. Source resolutions and pixel packing formats need to be identical.3. The selection of CBR vs VBR encoding needs to match between the 2 streams.4. Version of encoding codec needs to match between streams.Note that some players, especially mostly software ones may be more resilient to variations of my 4 points above, however, small set-top-box TV players may be using mostly a hardware mpeg decoder meaning they might not have the processing gusto to add code to deal with randomly stitched together streams.If TVs with built in YouTube players begin freezing all the time, like some from the big guys like Sony & LG keep on freezing, YouTube coders on their head end have a huge issue as they might forced into live transcoding (huge dedicated real-time processing for each video) for all their distributed videos for such TVs. Otherwise, massive freeze-ups, most likely which may cause memory leaks on such TV players, might begin bricking some TVs... Permanently...

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 04:53:47 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 17, 2024, 12:31:01 amSince when has this been a problem? I bet that if it happens, YT will tell that it's done to improve customer experience and to protect the users' security and save the planet. The majority of the users will happily swallow that.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 12:22:26 pm
content: YouTube's latest idea is to display an ad when you pause the video:https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/1fd051l/i_paused_my_video_and_this_showed_up/

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 07:50:42 pm
content: Great!But that's still grandpa's methods.They should push ads full screen to people's devices even when they're not playing YT videos. That's the future. The buggers are still being a little conservative, much to shareholders' dismay. Come on!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 01:51:32 pm
content: YouTube confirms your pause screen is now fair game for ads (https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/18/24248391/youtube-pause-ads-widely-rolling-out)

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 02:05:19 pm
content: I tell you, YouTubereallyhas an unhealthy obsession with ads, and nevermind the time they were telling people to turn off their adblockers.As long as I keep uBlock Origin updated regularly, everything will be fine (even though I don't bother with YouTube as much).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 02:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bryn on September 20, 2024, 02:05:19 pmYoootoob's obsession with ads is entirelyhealthy- for its balance sheet.Google is one of the poster boys for "enshittification" (a word of the year in 2023).Adverts can be ignored.More of a problem is the low quality of 99.9% of the videos, which would be better in text and don't require moving pictures.Add that it is impossible to "speed read" a video to find out itdoesn'toffer anything worthwhile. I can skim a page of text (400 words) in 10-20s, speech is at best 60wpm, so that's a >20:1 slowdown. My remaining life is too short.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 08:27:11 pm
content: While this is just a cash cow obviously, ads may be a plus to push people to dial down their video watching time. It's very time-consuming and relatively unproductive overall, with few exceptions.Yes, the fact you can't really "speed watch" most videos is precisely because most are made to force people to watch them entirely to maximize ad revenue (and favor ranking).But I don't blame people trying to at least cover the cost of making these videos, at least those that are interesting, even when the point could be made in much shorter time.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 08:46:54 pm
content: QuoteYou know, talking about the cost of making videos (and particularly uninteresting and uninformative ones)...If they didn't make the viewbait videos they wouldn't have video making costs to cover.(Edited to make the context very precisely defined for those that find it had to let go of a thought)

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 09:20:43 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2024, 02:24:22 pmI kinda disagree. Old youtube was simply too good to be true, yet if you pay for it or use ublock origin as long as it still works the site is still fine. Youtube search, interface and algorithmic recommendations isn't any worse than it has been (search has always been shit). For all the shit people give it for pushing shorts, the first line of shorts is two pages down for me... meh.Things like smart TVs serving ads and cars spying on you is a far greater example of enshittification to me than an ad based services pushing a few more ads ... at least Google gives you the option to pay to get rid of them.QuoteHell is other people, that isn't Google's fault.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 09:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2024, 02:24:22 pmSo true.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 09:53:40 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on September 20, 2024, 09:20:43 pmJust ignore him until he uploads something:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/idea-for-a-first-youtube-video/Quote from: PlainName on September 20, 2024, 08:46:54 pmPlenty of videos inherently cost money to make to be interesting, test equipment, tools might need to be purchased. If the video quality or lighting is poor it will generally get less views.Not sure what you are trying to say here.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 09:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on September 20, 2024, 08:46:54 pmThat's what happens when people use partial quotes.

author: The_Spectrum.A_idiot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 09:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: Bryn on September 20, 2024, 02:05:19 pmChrome will boot uBlock and Adblock at some point. so time will tell , we may need to switch to Firefox or other browsers at the end of the day.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 11:24:49 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 20, 2024, 09:53:40 pmSure, decent informative videos are fine. I am talking about the content-free videos put up because the producers think the world owes them a living and, hey, look at Mr Beast - wouldn't mind some of that.And the ones that have some possibly interesting thing but they won't spill the beans until 3/4 of the way through a 20-minute ramble. They probably learned that from the Daily Mail ("This is theonething you need to.. blah.. blah" - can't mention it in the heading in case no-one looks at the article).Of course, and as I note above, ones that aren't viewbait are not the ones I was talking about. Hence why I specifically mentioned viewbait ones as my targets

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 11:30:41 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 20, 2024, 09:56:18 pmThe quote is to show exactly what I am referring to, as opposed to what you think I might be talking about. If you think it's out of context it doesn't matter because theentirecontext of what I am referring to is in that quote.If you would prefer I would happily remove your nick from the quote so you're not associated with it. Main reason I didn't is because certain others complain that they can't scroll up to find where quotes came from.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 11:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on September 20, 2024, 11:24:49 pmQuote from: SiliconWizard on September 20, 2024, 08:27:11 pm

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 11:59:17 pm
content: Yes, as I repeatedly pointed out, I am wasn't talking about the interesting ones. The only reason I put the quote there was to show what Iwastalking about, which was the viewbait stuff.Edit: just to please you I've modified the original. Maybe we can move back to actual youtube rants now.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 08:17:43 am
content: Targeted ads by Google/YouTube? For a company that has supposedly gathered information on me for the past 20 or 30 years, they are doing a heck of a poor job of targeting me.I am a male in an all male household but get bombarded with ads for women's underwear.I have not owned a pet in over 50 years but get belted with dog and cat food ads.I have absolutely no intention of buying a new or used vehicle but, you guessed it, ad after ad for them.I have the best auto and home insurance company and have had them for over 50 years but am targeted with ads for more expensive insurance with less reliable companies.The list goes on and on. I can only think that the biggest suckers that Google deals with are the advertisers who actually pay them for their "targeted" services.And then, when I do want to buy something I have to dig and dig to get information on it. I am presently buying a cordless vacuum cleaner. Not a single ad. NOT EVEN ONE! I am not keeping it secret. I even used the Google search engine.Likewise for other things that I have purchased. Oh, I do get ads for them, AFTER I make a once in ten years purchase of an expensive item.Google has got to be either the worst or the most crooked advertisement agency of all time. One or the other.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 09:39:27 am
content: I wouldn't be so sure that they are failing to target you. I often go to Aliexpress to get some specific thing, and while I'm there I might browse some stuff and see something I hadn't realised I needed or wanted, or even knew existed (probably the cause of not wanting). Somehow, I come away with loads of stuff I didn't go there for.Perhaps the 'targeting' is an attempt to get you interested in other stuff. You don't have a pet, but perhaps you'll start thinking one might be nice, and when you take the plunge you already know now where to get the pet stuff. It's the long game

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 09:43:01 am
content: Another new feature from YouTube:YouTube says it is ‘not hiding the skip button’ on ads (https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/9/24266183/youtube-not-hiding-skip-button-ads)

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:04:39 am
content: Still no adds here with desktop Firefox & uBlock Origin & Privacy Badger (and not logging in).If it's not possible anymore to watch youtube without adds or a subscription, then I simply stop watching youtube.There's more to life than youtube.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:21:50 am
content: The same over here. However, we should complain loudly and publicly about the current enshittification of platforms/services/products.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:28:54 am
content: I'm more worried about government organizations, public services and banks pushing you to install "apps".I want to be able to do all those things on a desktop pc using opensource software (e.g. Firefox without DRM plugin).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:32:02 am
content: I watched my 8 year old nephew(-in-law) bypass YouTube ads on the family smart TV expertly. He simply remembered the exact sequence of presses on the remote to report every single ad as being malicious content. The ad would pop up and within 2-3 seconds he had filed a report and the ad disappeared and the video played instead. He did this four separate times as we watched different videos together. I can't help but admit I was impressed.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 10:51:03 am
content: I found, until recently, quickly pressing the back, then forward button would bypass adverts at the start of videos. Unfortunately this doesn't work for me anymore, so I've installed an adblocker, which I've been reluctant to do, because I don't want to deprive creators of revenue, but now Google as become so greedy, I feel like I have no other option.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 03:00:09 pm
content: To my understanding creators on youtube who are seeking to make money from their content usually insert adverts as part of their video (the approx 40 second segment where they thank JLCPCB, PCBWAY or Onshape usually), or put links below encouraging you to visit sites where they sell products or have substack or patreon blogs with paid access to full articles, or they have affiliate links below to online marketplaces. Those who actually want, or need, money from their videos so they can keep making more, aren't getting, or expecting, much percentage of their earnings to come from the automatically inserted adverts. The only people you're really denying money to with adblocking is google's mega corporate empire.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 09:16:24 pm
content: Well, depends on your number of viewers, subscribers and content. But unless you have hundreds of thousands of views in a trendy niche, you'll never make any kind of sizable money with just YT ads. It's peanuts.