Any Commodore 64/128 people on here? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 07:05:02 am
content: Just wondering as i've got a Commodore 128 on the way (in unknown condition) and it's been a long time since i've laid hands on one.Wondering if there is anyone on here who still has one/uses it.First question would be what people are using for video output nowadays. There seem to be quite a lot of options and curious to hear what others are using...Cheers,Scotty

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 08:06:32 am
content: Nice bit of retro kit! the 128's were the Rolls-Royce to the C64's etc and go for a good few quid on Ebay; I don't have a 128 but I have half a dozen C64's and a few VIC20's; I just use the original RF modulator into an old portable colour TV but there are other options.What i'd suggest is if you haven't already heard about or joined the "Lemon64" forum you might want head over and join because they have tons of new and historic posts on everything C64 / C128 related.http://www.lemon64.com/click -> forum -> help and support

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 09:11:43 am
content: Used them 30 yrs ago.Still have a heap of software in 51/4" floppies.They where the "ducks nuts" at the time.Also still got a dot matrix printer although the ink ribbon will be toast.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 11:00:22 am
content: Hi,Yes, I'm still using my trusty 64 and still coding demos for itThis is me :http://csdb.dk/scener/?id=1119Anyway, your best option is to use s-video to connect your 64/128 to your monitor/tv. I've yet to see an LCD screen that works nicely with the 64/128 because of the difference in screenrefresh frequency. The c64/128 signal does not follow the PAL standard 100%, the refresh rate is 50.12Hz instead of 50Hz and the digitizers in those screen are mapping the video to their own 50Hz, resulting in jerkyness every 8 seconds (1/0.12Hz = 8s).Best to stick to an old CRT monitor.

author: synapsis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 02:11:38 pm
content: I tinker with my Commodore collection on and off.3 - Vic20s1 - C641 - C161 - Plus42 - C1282 - C128DCRVarious drives, ram expansions, modems, and one network cart!Since I don't have anything that accepts S-Video, I'm using a Sabrent-branded S-Video to HDMI converter. The picture is perfect on an LCD. I picked up a 1902A monitor for 80 column mode, but not much uses that mode. I did use a circuit that added the intensity line to the RGB for viewing on a VGA monitor, but the signal was pretty noisy.

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 05:04:23 pm
content: I have a C128DCR on my bench under my monitor that I fire up about once a week. I've modded it a bit too.DCR is different from the c64 style 'keyboard' only original C128.video output on the c128 is a difficult thing. Understand the C128 has two video outs, its original c64 compatible tv output / 40 col mode, and a hires 80 col mode. Both separate plugs on the back. The 80 col mode is modified RGBI signal.Best thing is to get on the C128 monitors, eg: 1902A or 1902 (one is ntsc, one is pal) or just use the plain old TV out signal and stick to 40 col mode.One thing to note, first get C128's didnt have the video ram fully populated. A common hack is to up it to the 64kb it is supposed to have from the 16kb it comes with. You can find the pcb's on ebay for cheap, plugs into the socket, or probably just solder your own ram chip.Something you need to get is a SD/uIEC so you can do disk images off an SD card without using a real floppy disk drive. Thats the cheapest way to do SD card disk images. the more expensive but better way is an Ultimate u1541-ii cartridge which basically emulates a disk drive properly (since the disk drive has a real cpu, ram and os inside its not a small thing to emulate).http://store.go4retro.com/uiec-sd/any questions, just ask!

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 05:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: ScottyAU on July 14, 2014, 07:05:02 amIf you want to get right to the source - check out Bil Herd from the Dinosaur Den (http://fran-n-bil.com/) Bil worked a Commodore....

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 06:24:37 pm
content: I had Commodore 128D (Metal cased one) but that was pretty much spare parts condition so finally tossed to ser recycling when we moved few years ago...Still have fully functioning Commodore 64 how ever... Should try make flash memory module for it for easy crosslink programming...

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 06:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: w2aew on July 14, 2014, 05:56:34 pmAnd Bil was the hardware lead for the C128.I have a C128, too. For the 80 column mode all you need is some resistors and diodes:http://www.frank-buss.de/c128/vdc/index.htmlNot pefect, because it doesn't do the brown color hack and not all displays can show this frequency, but works for me.For the 40 column mode (and my C64), I use a this good quality s-video cable:http://www.ebay.de/itm/Videokabel-TV-Kabel-fur-Commodore-C64-C128-auf-S-Video-2-5m-/231146063581?pt=Klassische_Computer&hash=item35d16106ddWorks great with my old Hyundai ImageQuest L17T display, which has integrated speakers as well for the C64/C128 sound on the same video connector.

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 07:01:00 pm
content: i have a nice rgbi to vga adapter from when commoddore128.org was operational. I should take some pics tonight. nice bit of kit. I have an ice 1902A that runs both 80+40 col mode.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 02:35:36 am
content: I forgot to hit notify on this thread when i started it - awesome to come back less than 24hrs later to all of the replies! Thanks.I have already ordered an ultimate 1541 - but looking at the site I’m a month or two out from that shipping which is cool.I've also got one of Ray's power supplies in the mail (the 128 comes without a power supply):http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/cbm.htmlSpecifically:http://personalpages.tds.net/~rcarlsen/cbm/universal%20ps/I've ordered one of the 8pin -> s-video cables to start with, and will keep an eye out for a commodore monitor somewhere close to home.I've seen the boards that increase the video memory -http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Commodore-128-64k-VDC-Plug-In-Upgrade-No-Soldering-needed-/380934751136Those ones? What will actually take advantage of the increase in video RAM?FrankBuss - I’ve watched some of your videos on using retrobright (awesome!). If/once the 128 works i might give that a go too to bring it back up to a decent colour (it looked a little yellow in the pictures).I've been watching Bil's stuff for a little while now - great that he's around.I've found two books that look half decent:Commodore_128_Troubleshooting_and_Repair.pdfTroubleshooting_and_Repairing_your_Commodore_128.pdfhttp://cbm8bit.com/8bit/commodore/server/bombjack.org/browse/books/pdfAny hot tips for when the 128 arrives to look at before i plug it in and power it up to see if it works?Cheers,Scotty

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 11:55:10 am
content: the c128's pretty bomb proof. just turn it on. maybe clean the crumbs out of the keyboard.buy yourself a jiffydos hardware rom for the c128 and a jiffydos 1541-ii IMAGE so you can stick that on the u1541 cart and get the full jiffydos experience. rom replaces the stock c128 rom and the image goes on the cart for the drive.you NEED jiffydos!just using the wedge '$' to get a disk directory or '%PROGRAM' to run something is so much better than all the LOAD commands.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 06:04:56 am
content: Look what arrived in the mail today!Still have a bit of a wait for the video cable and replacement PSU from the USA.Took it apart - and to my eyes it didn't look like it had been apart before. The heat grease on the chips under the shielding looked original to me. Only a few tiny little spots of corrosion, just a bit of dust etc inside the case. Nothing a good vacuum couldn't fix. Will have to give the top case a good retro brighting if/when its working.It's got one white jumper wire on the top of the main board - and two underneath (see photos). Were they standard?Cheers.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 07:07:47 am
content: I should open my C128, too, but looks like the jumper wires are standard, that's what Google image finds:http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/c128-production-pcb.png

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 07:10:11 am
content: Ah!FrankBuss - when you retrobright'ed your commodore's - did you remove/tape off/something the "Commodore 128 Personal Computer" sticker/badge on the top? Didn;t know if it would be affected by the retrobright.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 07:16:35 am
content: No, I didn't tape off the sticker, but maybe a good idea, because the dark background of the sticker got brighter, too

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 03:43:44 pm
content: unless your going to put some kind of uv sealer over it completely, retrobrite is not worth it imo, it does not last at all.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 10:06:18 pm
content: Yeah i see they mention things like ArmourAll after you've done it to keep it from yellowing.My old man used that on the plastic & vinyl in his car - 30 years later it still looked like it had just driven off the showroom floor! (And it was a 4x4 that got driven and left in some pretty bad places).Might give that a go afterwards to see if that keeps it from yellowing.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 06:31:55 am
content: It works!http://scottyau.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/commodore-128-part-2.htmlI'd be interested if anyone has thoughts on the video out issues given the setup i am currently using.As noted i'm waiting on some bits so that i can give the DB9 connector a go.Scotty

author: synapsis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 02:23:14 pm
content: The only way I got around the 40 col S-Video noise was to use a cable with a very short run, with clamp-on ferrites, and shielding. Even then it was a little noisy. I ended up picking up one of these and haven't had a problem since:http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Composite-S-video-Converter-Adapter/dp/B00BLUN7FI/I was excited to try out the 80 column mode as well, and after I picked up a 1902A monitor I noticed that barely anything uses 80 column mode! I haven't tried much in the CP/M realm yet, though.I can tell you that GEOS is so much better with a 512k ram expansion pack and a mouse.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 02:41:08 pm
content: I was once in the posession of the very rare "portable" Commodore SX-64 for a while. It had it's own tiny little colour monitor and disk drive built in. It belonged to a school friend of mine. I can't quite remember how it came into my posession for those few months. I think I was developing a database app for him or something like that.They seem to go for quite a pretty penny these days!

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 05:27:20 pm
content: your plan seems to be to not use the 40col mode..wow your in for a shock, next to nothing uses the 80 col mode. outside of a wordprocess and maybe 1 infocom game and the cpm disk.99.9% of stuff is in 40 col mode.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 09:18:15 pm
content: Can the DB9 port not do 40 col?My plan was to use that port (probably mostly in 40 col mode), just because of the cleaner output that i should be able to get with it once I’ve got some bit's in place. Not to necessarily use it in 80 column mode.Cheers.

author: synapsis
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 11:23:56 pm
content: Nope. On my 1902A I need to press the input switch to use the DIN input connector in C128 40 columns or C64 mode.

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 02:36:08 pm
content: the c128 does its semi RGBI 80col over the din plug only, everything else over the 40col port.the 80col is neat for cpm or a couple of utils and text adventures but all the action is on the 40 col port.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 09:10:47 pm
content: My bad - I’ll have a look at a few other options then to clean up the picture from the round din connector then...Ta guys.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2014, 09:13:40 am
content: So I did a bit of looking around and thinking and I have managed to find Dell 2408WFP which has a S-Video input! (no more S-Video to VGA adapter).I'll post an update once it turns up (hopefully this week). Fingers crossed the video output is a little cleaner!

author: AmmoJammo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2014, 10:07:48 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/i%27m-a-hoarder!-c64-crustyness-inside!/msg321251/#msg321251I have a Commodore 16 too, and am currently trying to find a reasonably priced Vic 20.

author: pinkman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 03:16:41 pm
content: I have two C64's in a box with some software, external floppy drive, etc... Haven't turned them on in years.They are a little moldy looking which is odd because they weren't stored in a moist environment, but I'll bet they still work.Anyone want them? Lol

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 03:36:35 pm
content: You could sell them on eBay. Prices are rising for some years now. You can get EUR 30-50 for a good C64 with floppy drive and disks.

author: pinkman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 03:38:35 pm
content: I have tried and failed at the "selling on eBay" think - I suppose I'll put them in the classifieds here at some point. I have a lot of old stuff, zenith/compaq "laptops" and luggables, WWII radio equipment, etc - I wish that selling online didn't take so much time to set up!

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 07:55:30 pm
content: Pinkman - whereabouts are you in the World? Guessing no Australia?

author: pinkman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 11:32:01 pm
content: Nope. USA

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 11:35:16 pm
content: Bummer

author: pinkman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 12:17:21 am
content: I suppose using some manner of drone to get it to you is out of the question. Battery life and such... Where is a Mr. Fusion when you need it.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 12:24:40 am
content: That would be quite handy

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 11:09:00 am
content: I also have a C64. I pensioned off my 1084S monitor and just recently bought a 26" LCD television as a replacement. Was the last of its model in stock (the display model), $200 bucks at Harvey Norman. However there are still numerous models available that accept composite and component video inputs. Picture quality is fine - overall way better than the old 1084. The TV is widescreen of course but they pretty much all support 4:3 aspect ratio as well.Way cooler that the C64, however, is my model B Beeb. Unfortunately though, I managed to pick up a version installed with a 14.32 MHz crystal in the video circuit, which (divided by 4) returns a 3.58 MHz colour sub-carrier. That's the oddball PAL-N standard that was only ever adopted in Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay (according to Wikipedia) - the frame rate is 50 Hz and each line is exactly 64uS. Over here it is 4.43 MHz. I pulled the crystal in injected the correct chrominance sub-carrier reference frequency with the aid of my Rigol DG1022. I managed to get a colour picture or sorts, but unfortunately the DG1022 has far too much phase noise for the task and red and violet wont lock stably and yellow is hardly distinguishable from green. Now I just have to source a 17.73 MHz crystal, then I'll be in business.

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2014, 02:04:00 pm
content: nice! I have a spare crystal + vic chip for my C128DCR to convert it from NTSC to PAL, but no PAL monitor so I have not made the change yet.

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 05:58:34 am
content: GK - very nice!I got my hands on a different screen with S-Video input - looks much better!http://scottyau.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/commodore-128-part-3.html

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 09:22:31 am
content: Anyone recommend terminal software? Planning to get the necessary gear together to dial intohttp://bbs.fozztexx.comChris does some awesome stuff:https://twitter.com/FozzTexx

author: ScottyAU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 11:50:25 am
content: Boo yah!http://scottyau.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/commodore-128-part-4.html

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 05:56:39 pm
content: I've got a few C= machines lying around. It's more for nostalgia than anything, I rarely use them.I have a 1080 Amiga monitor, a SX-64 (with keyboard cable), a 1571 drive, a 1581, a boosted 1764 512k RAM expansion, a Super Snapshot, the 1351 mouse... A home-made power supply since the original brick is unreliable, runs too hot.Bunch of other weird stuff like the SFD-1001 drive, IEEE interface and a stringy floppy drive.When I used GEOS 2.0 on the C64 with the RAM, mouse and 1581 it was a surprisingly capable system 20 or so years ago.I built my 128DCR from 3 dead motherboards I found on eBay, the case and keyboard from "as is" auctions. It still has a few holes drilled in the front panel from the previous owner. It's quite a mutt!Years ago I tried my hand in designing a RGBI to VGA converter which was more difficult than I thought. I got it to convert but I never got the colors to work correctly. Even after going through all the registers of the converter chip all I ever got out of it was purple and green.I also had clock problems, I was aiming for pixel-perfect upscaling at any horizontal resolution and I was unable to design a clock recovery circuit to do so.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 07:15:33 pm
content: So you got an ultimate :-) It's the best thing for your 64/128 ever. Period.Have fun now you can easily play/watch anything ever made in just a couple of seconds

author: sonic2000gr
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 09:47:34 pm
content: Sure I got one. And it has good company too. The C64 was the first computer I laid my hands on and programmed. I ended up buying the TI-99/4A though.

author: RobFromEarth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 04:56:18 am
content: I started with a c128 too. My favorite thing about it was the ML monitor. What a nerd. Lots of games/utils collected of course. Thanks for posting the pics, that equipment looks in great shape for its age.

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 02:52:36 am
content: I have a mint-in-box C64C here, but no games or controllers. The SID chip in the C64C was never as good as the original 6581, but then I'm an electronic music nut, so these things matter a lot to me. If anyone has an original 'bubble design C64 they are ready to take to the local landfill, do me a favour and pull the 6581 chip for me, I'd love to build a synth module around it...I have had loads of Commodores in my time although my first machine was a ZX81 (with 16K RAM expansion). I then moved onto a Vic20, then the awesome C64... I loved the Amiga, but the sound was nowhere as awesome as the C64.Even now, some folk are using upgraded Amigas to browse the 'net...