Can I be a decent engineer even if I suck at college? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:18:03 am
content: Hello this is my first post on this forum. I'm junior year student,study electrical engineering at local private college near my home. Since the time I started college I had huge ups and downs and the reason might be that I wasn't very good student in high school. I can understand concepts pretty well but when it comes to solving problems etc. I just can't make myself do it. To be honest I never liked the idea of going to school or college and think that people should learn something on their own merits. I have struggle with digital communication class and some classes which involve complex mathematics and abstract thinking. Recently I started doubting my career choice but I know it's too late for me to change this especially my parents won't allow me to act this way. So do any of you engineers ever faced this problem in college? And if so, how did you improved the situation?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:26:20 am
content: The overlap between college and real-world engineering isn't all that great, so some people can suck at one and excel at the other. (Many more people suck at both, naturally.)I won't try to diagnose over the internet what might be ailing you, but if it's a lack of motivation out of boredom, you want to make sure that doesn't turn into generalized laziness. Find something that interests and excites you and develop the discipline to follow it through to the end. Doesn't matter (much) what exactly that end is, but you won't get far in life without some level of discipline and follow-through.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:28:59 am
content: Well I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but that does not sound promising. Engineering is all about solving problems, complex mathematics and abstract thinking. In practice you rarely need to perform complex math by hand but you still need to have a basic understanding of how it works. I've heard it said, and would echo myself that engineering is less a career choice and more a life calling. Most engineers were tearing stuff apart to figure out how it worked from the time they were small children. I got into plenty of trouble taking apart my dad's electronics when I was a kid. Eventually I learned how to put things back together and then how to build my own stuff.If you really apply yourself you can make it through school, but you have to be passionate about engineering if you want to succeed as an engineer. If you're just in it for the paycheck or because your parents are pressuring you to take this path, you are going to have problems.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 06:19:02 am
content: In deciding if you want to continue, realise there are two separate type of areas in engineering.The fundamentals such as circuit theory, fundamental communications theory, filter design fundamentals, engineering mathematics and solid state physics.The applied side of engineering involves understanding technology invented by others such as microprocessor programming, digital communications protocols, FPGA programming. All of these do have some fundamental aspects underneath, but you have to be good at learning the details of the technology invented by other people.Ideally it is good to have an interest in both fundamentals and applied engineering.Lots of good engineers have no interest in many of the applied areas of engineering - they have a specific area of interest, and do not care much about the rest.However, if you do not have a good interest in the fundamentals, it will be difficult being an engineer.Having said that, first year can be a very boring year.Also it is good to work out what sort of engineer you are likely to be. A former boss years ago said that amongst the valuable engineers, there were two types - the 90% engineers and the 100% engineers.The 90% engineers are great at getting things done - if a prototype works, that job is done in their mind and they move on to the next task. They hate getting bogged down. They might get a product to production in record time, but there might be a 5% failure rate. The 90% means they still have to go a full 90% of the way - in other words, they have still done a great job handling 90% of the detailed work. In engineering there is a LOT of details. They can jump into learning whatever it takes to get the job done - they love learning new stuff.The 100% engineer is not happy if there is a single unexplained glitch, or an unchecked aspect of a design. They will stick at it until the design is perfect - deadlines be damned. This is the engineer that can take a product with a 5% failure rate and make it a near zero failure rate. This kind of engineer has to love the detective work and this is also the kind of engineer who might become known as a genuine expert in a particular field of engineering.Both types are extremely valuable to a company as part of a team. Lots of people in this forum are doing whole projects on their own and so they have to try and be both types at the same time - it is not easy.If you do not feel you fit into either category, then the truth is you may find you can never be a great engineer. There are still jobs, but probably not the best jobs.Richard

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 06:29:37 am
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 04:18:03 amThat sounds a bad start foranycareer or job or even hobby. As I told my daughter, ignorance can be cured; stupidity and laziness can't.All jobs have their boring side; the trick is to find something interesting in every job, and then find ways of doing more of that.QuoteThat's nonsensical.Or maybe you think it is a good idea for you to re-invent voltaic piles and how to convert mechanical motion into electricity, or even the laws or arithmetic and the number zero.Much better that you should stand on the shoulders of giants.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 06:50:53 am
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 04:18:03 amAt some point, you're going to have to stand up to your parents and say 'no'.You've answered your own question here. You don't enjoy electrical engineering. Perhaps you don't have the aptitude for it, or maybe it just doesn't interest you. It doesn't really matter either way. What matters is that you're not interested in or engaged with it, and if you don't get excited by making things and understanding (reallyunderstanding) how they work, then engineering isn't for you.If you have good practical skills, you might make a good technician instead. Leave the theory and mathematics to engineers; instead, learn how to install, configure, maintain, diagnose, dismantle and rebuild things.

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 07:00:57 am
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 04:18:03 am1/ If you have made the wrong choice then NOW is exactly the time to change your choice. The alternative is to spend the next 40+ years doing something that you don't enjoy.2/ Grow a back bone. I assume you are a young adult. it's your life not your parent's. You need to make your own decisions. Your parents are naturally going to want the best for you and are used to making important decisions for you. It will be as hard for them to give up the reigns as it is for you to realise that you have to take hold of them.3/ If you have no idea what else to do, then stick with the engineering. There is little point in dropping out to do nothing instead.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 08:17:11 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on May 02, 2017, 06:50:53 amBecome service engineer, you get to travel a lot. And you're not expected to know everything. Sometimes also called electrician.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 08:48:01 am
content: Do everything that you can to finish the course if you're still interested and it's not causing you too much mental distress.Engineering covers a very wide range of jobs and skill levels. Some engineers are hands on tools, some just end up project managing. Some write software & do hardware, others just one or the other.I've worked with quite a few engineers that were excellent academically but absolutely useless at achieving anything in the workplace. PhD's seem to be the worst in terms of practical workplace knowledge and skills. I've worked with very few engineers who were good across the board, perhaps 2 or 3. Everyone finds their own niche.

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 09:37:18 am
content: Yeah I mean I did it for 3 years so I don't see myself quitting so I'm going to push myself harder and if I manage to fail I want to pursue other things...

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 09:47:00 am
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 09:37:18 amTwo questions: Do you haveyour ownmultimeter and soldering iron? Do you use these often? If yes on both question, there is a hope for you on this career path, if no on the second you are in trouble, if no on the first - change your course now.CheersAlex

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:20:50 am
content: Well I do have some equipments like multimeter and soldiering iron but I don't use them much. I gotta say that I don't do electronics as a hobby. Maybe before entering college I had some enthusiasm but all the courseworks and assignments made it indifferent to me.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:23:20 am
content: What would you rather be doing?

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:29:18 am
content: I don't know, maybe carpentry

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:30:19 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 02, 2017, 04:28:59 amIt doesn't have to be, although that's (rightly) the best generic description.There are countless engineering jobs that don't really require continually solving problems, and as you note below, don't require complex math either.Of course those jobs and roles might be that exciting and challenging, but it doesn't mean you can't make a career out of doing them.Those jobs are often the ones that the non-talented and non-enthusiastic graduate engineers end up doing.An engineering degree can also lead into other areas like management etc if you are that way inclined.If someone is no good at solving problems, complex math, or abstract thing, but they can pass the course, then there is still value in doing that.Having an engineering degree does NOT mean you have to become a problem solving practical design engineer. In fact most don't.One problem is you have asked this on a forum that is mostly design loving engineers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:32:40 am
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 11:20:50 amYou are probably in the same position as 90% of engineering students. IME most are not hobbyists, nor care much about it personally and don't bother to own a multimeter etc or have any interest in it outside of school.

author: Harb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:33:55 am
content: As an employer, I will be honest here.....I am in the TV industry.......Engineering, production and transmission , not TV sets lolI will hands down pick a practical person that has and can demonstrate their understanding and passion for the job they want to undertake well before I will pick a collage graduate every time if I can see they are really keen and want the job for the job and not just the money.If you truely have what it takes to stay in the job you want long term......keep pushing and you will get there in the end.....if you don't, just move on and find something that inspires you to do the above.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:35:45 am
content: Quote from: vealmike on May 02, 2017, 07:00:57 amRubbish.If he's done 3 years already, just finish the thing. Only an idiot would spend 40+ years don't a job they don't enjoy. Having an Engineering degree can get intocountlessdifferent fields, it's not forcing you into a corner to do a job you don't like.

author: Harb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 11:39:30 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 02, 2017, 11:35:45 amTHIS........... finish it and at least have a fall back position.......things can change and he may turn around again.......too much time has been invested now to throw it all in so close to the end, might as well stick it out now

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:00:19 pm
content: A lot of engineers don't do any real engineering. It is certainly better to have this degree and find alternate work than if graduating with a Political Science degree.

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:15:27 pm
content: Hey Dave, It's pretty cool to get advice from you! Sometimes I use your videos to prepare for an exam and to be honest they're much enlightening than some lectures I have in college. Anyways I'm not going to stop learning electronics I think that I just burned out at college. I'm planning to rest for a while and start again but I think that I should change my learning styles.

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 12:18:18 pm
content: Yes sir I'll try my best this time so even if I fail I won't regret later

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 01:08:53 pm
content: Sometimes if you go straight from school into college, your head is in the wrong place. People who have taken a break from education and then come back can be better at realizing that the college is all for them - it is nothing about pleasing other people. The lecturers and tutors are all working for them. As long as they pass the course requirements, the scores ultimately mean nothing.You want to finish with something that lasts with you beyond the final exams.If you think you can get your head in the right space, keep going. If not, perhaps look at taking the year out and instead earn some money and play with electronics for the year and then come back next year (if it is possible). There is a genuine creative aspect of electronics that can be exhilarating. When your mind is right, you will hear things the lecturers say and it will set your mind going. Maybe just a seed of an idea. At that point, it can start becoming much easier because is starts to become interesting.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 03:01:56 pm
content: A junior year slump is to be expected. I had to literally drag my butt to class the last 2 years. The enthusiasm just wasn't there. Maxwell's Equations? Are you kidding me?So, I got my BSEE and went to work designing computer facilities. Nothing whatsoever to do with my degree. I never did work in electronics; I built a career on electrical based, primarily, on the fact that I knew exactly how to wire stuff up. Big stuff...Along the way I got sidetracked into a project management role and I spent most of my time chasing after contractors. Again, Maxwell had nothing to do with it.You could say my hobby was EE; I never actually did it for a living. Even grad school was just an extension of my hobby. The Intel 8080 had just been released and computers were starting to take off ('75-'76). Exciting times!I'm not surprised about the slump but I would recommend gutting it out. Once you have a STEM degree, you can decide what you really want to do. It doesn't have to be electronics.I don't like sitting at a drafting board (or CAD workstation) and designing stuff. I want to go outside and play! My career couldn't have worked out better. Retired 13 years and doing well.Hang in there!

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 04:40:36 pm
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 02, 2017, 04:18:03 amIt may benefit if you can negotiate reduced face-to-face hours with your college. You end up finishing the degree a little later, it also means that you spread out your learning and are not too rushed to do assignments and course work. Much better than bombing out just before the finish line.Also consider an electrical or electronics-related trade (eg. being atechnicianor installer) rather than an engineer, as they tend to be very practical and hands-on, and the theory side is not as full-on as it is in engineering. Working in an electronics-related field doesn't have to be all engineering or circuit design, and I have worked with electricians, hobbyists and other techs who can run rings around recent college/uni grads when it comes to electronics, but the uni grads can do the maths better.Talk to a variety of people around you and ask questions, etc. Old-school engineers who have worked on old TV/radio/etc, and ham radio enthusiasts are loaded with knowledge. I have learnt a lot from my interactions with other tradespeople, including engineers, who are a lot more experienced than I am.Whatever you choose, be sure to have side projects to avoid disillusionment. Experiment and don't be afraid if things blow up and/or almost kill you, it's the industry-standard method of initiation for electronics and electrical professionals. But don't go actively looking for trouble, and learn how to operate safely in a controlled environment (low voltage, low energy) before venturing into dangerous territories (high energy, high voltage).And most importantly, good luck.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 05:47:01 pm
content: HiJunior year can mean a lot of things. If it means that you are finishing up your second semester of that year and have two semesters to go before getting a degree, that's one thing. If it means "I just flunked the entire year" and are two years away from a degree that is a very different context. I'm going to guess that you are a year from a degree.If you have not already done so, explore CO-OP / intern positions in your chosen field. If nothing else it will help you focus on what field you *would* choose. Nobody ever does "everything". We all specialize and work on a subset of skills. We may move from one area to another over the years, but it's still a subset. In the more extreme case, take a year off and find a job. Do so *after* setting it up with your school (so you can come back and finish). Most colleges are pretty rational about allowing you to do this sort of stuff.If you are serious about carpentry, head out to a job site and cut boards to somebody else's spec for a summer. Learn the reality of a system that starts out as an apprentice and may someday get you a masters license (but most likely not). Also learn the joy of a boom / bust employment cycle. It's not all bad. Being out in the fresh air is great. Being able to see definite progress on "your job" hour by hour can be a real boost. You *will* be in good shape after a summer of construction work ...no need to go to the gym.Also consider that a significant percentage of people who get degrees simply use them as the key to unlock a career. There are a lot of job descriptions that include a degree requirement but are not what one might think of as engineering. Sales, marketing, quality assurance, and production management are full of those sort of job slots. It's not all sitting at a desk working out a schematic ...Bob

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 11:42:07 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 02, 2017, 11:35:45 amI agree. 3 years in it would be stupid to drop out. In the OP's original post he says he is a "junior year student". I took that as year one.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: vealmike on May 03, 2017, 11:42:07 amHiIf the OP *is* going to school in Mongolia (and not just being cute) I suppose junior year could mean something very different than it does to me or to a lot of people. I've also assumed that he's in the northern hemisphere, which would put him at the end of a school year right now. Again, an assumption not a fact. There are people who go to school in the southern hemisphereThere are also some people (like myself long ago) who get on odd schedules that have very little correspondence with the normal school setup. We all make guesses to fill in the blanks ...Bob

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 01:58:28 pm
content: Thanks for great advice! I'm didn't gave up on my choice but I think that I suffered from temporary depression because of a lot of workload in college. I'm planning to do a lot of experiments and try a lot of things in future.

author: Snowarp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 02:04:40 pm
content: Also, since I discovered this incredible forum, I might ask some tips if I can't figure out something.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 02:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 03, 2017, 02:04:40 pmDude. If you show any initiative or interest here and ask a well thought out question you'll get people bending over backwards to help you. This isn't like the rest of the "internet". People actually know stuff and aren't afraid to share it.Except me. I'm just here to hang with the cool kids and try not to look like a dork

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: Snowarp on May 03, 2017, 01:58:28 pmI suspect that is more common that people would like to admit. Often people with mild depression actively refuse to consider that possibility, therefore don't get help and the problem continues.My daughter had a flatmate who was going to give up a different STEM subject. I don't know all the details, but her help and medical help enabled him to continue - and get an excellent degree.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:21:22 pm
content: I would definitely finish the course, it will still open lot of doors to various jobs.Math was always my main weakness and still is though, so as I'm trying to learn electronics for hobby I find the math part is hard. I'm more of a "let's stick this huge capacitor and inductor here and see what happens" type of guy.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 04:07:01 pm
content: HiAll of this is none of my business, so feel free to ignore if you wish. I'm back to my "we make assumptions" thing. Let's back up a bit:1) Is this a ~ four year degree granting program? (thus you are at the three year / four year point)2) Is the "private college" recognized (accredited) for granting these degrees?3) Do people graduate from this program and go on to get good jobs in the field with a reasonable success rate?4) If the program is in Mongolia, do you plan on working outside the country? If so is the program recognized internationally? Does it place graduates internationally?Why do I ask? Well, at least in the country I live in, those four criteria are not met by all programs you *could* sign up for. In some cases, you would be better to exit a bad program (one that say, flunks on all 4 points) and move on to something that does a better job. I have friends who have gotten stuck in some of these "bad" programs. They come away (even after a brief time) with a very negative opinion not just of the program but of their ability to succeed as well.Again, I'm just stepping back and trying to look at what I've "assumed" to be true.Bob

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 06:34:26 pm
content: HiThe best explanation I have ever heard for the "why go to college?" is : "If you allow it to, it teaches you how to learn". Simply put, it gives you the background and skills to expand your knowledge when you need to. There are certainly other ways to make this happen. There also is no guarantee that every person in every program *will* learn how to learn. A bad match between student and program may not work. A program that is poorly done may not work. Of course, in some cases a bad program or a bad match *does* work very well !! Put this way it seems a bit like nonsense. You have to look at likely outcomes. If 10% of the bad situations result in a good outcome, that's still a measurable success rate. If 80% of the good situations work out, that's still 20% that failed.Yes, it's a crazy world.Bob

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 07:01:12 am
content: Snowarp,You can be a great engineer even if you "suck" at college. However, it is my believe that not finishing will not reflect well on your ability to finish something you started. That said, it take a big person to realize a mistake has been made, and make the big call to do a U-turn. So, a well made decision of U-turn will not hurt, but instead it say loudly about your ability to admit mistake and take corrective actions. That sounds like circular talk; it is. There isalways pros and cons in every decisionand my circular talk is just an illustration of exactly that.Obliviously, the question then is: what would be the right call to make?School, like real life world, will have things you like and things that you don't. To do well in life, you must complete the boring bits to the level of satisfaction that is expected of you.You don't live to work, you work to live.You need to make sure whichever path you take, the enjoyable parts more than make up for the troublesome parts.You must therefore ask yourself penetrating questions such as:+ Is this degree worth it? (What opportunities may the degree open up?)+ Do I want a life of engineering, or do I rather do wood working?+ If I do wood working, how would that affect the life I would be living (less well paid perhaps)+ If I do engineering (perhaps better paid), would the extra money make up for it?+ How about time with family? Time for entertainment?+ Something as "silly sounding" as, will doing this "get me the girl?" Working at the sewage plant certainly is a disadvantage against a "race car driver" when it come to getting a date...etc. etc. etc.Oh, don't forget the cost of exit. Some decisions will have a cost when you back out.Finally, with the answers from those questions, judge for yourself.Will the "good parts" more than make up for the "bad parts"?After you make the decision, stay with it. Stick it out, enjoy the good part and bash through the bad parts.Keep good noteson your decision making. When you have to bite the bullet to smash through the bad parts, remembering why you made the decision and reminding yourself of the good parts will make the bad parts more bearable.Steadfast is good, but conscientiousness is better.Review your decisions regularly.What was right yesterday may be wrong today.It is a good thing to have doubt. Use that as opportunity and reassess.You will then be reassured of a good decision that was made, or you will choose a new path that will be well thought out. Either way, you will benefit from some honest rethinking.My view is: forget the saying "find a job you enjoy doing", it is far more important to make yourself a life you enjoy living.Work to live, don't live to work.Best wishes and Good Luck!!!

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 11:15:56 am
content: There are degrees that bridge management and engineering. Engineering lite management jobs pay pretty well. I have a relative that graduated EE that I wouldn't let wire a light. He manages quotes and pushes paper in a plant.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 11:42:16 am
content: Quote from: Seekonk on May 04, 2017, 11:15:56 amHiI would *guess* that > 1/3 of my graduating class in engineering school spent > 90% of their careers doing something that "was not engineering". I would by no means suggest the program or the individuals were a failure. We all seem to have done pretty well, 40 years later.Bob

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 04:40:19 pm
content: Engineering managers presumably, but not always, make more money than engineers. More often than not, engineering managers aren't degreed engineers. Sometimes, they have business skills. Engineers would argue against that...Regardless of your undergraduate degree, plan on getting an MBA (Master of Business Administration). The math is light (usually) and the degree is absolutely worthwhile. You have a wide range of job opportunities as a degreed engineer with business credentials. I kind of wish I had gone this way but, no, I had to go for the MSEE in computer design and then spent my career doing everything else. Around here, the MBA program is about 32 units.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 05:21:15 pm
content: HiPeople I graduated with went into a lot of things. A number of them wound up in sales or marketing. Neither one is what I would call "real engineering". Yes, you could debate that. In about 1 in 5 cases, the people knew that was their desired destination while they still were in school. Quite a few moved over to completely different disciplines (retail, education, medicine, maintenance, pro blogger, politics, ...). Areas like patient law and management can be a bit of a gray area. They certainly don't involve wires or code. The idea that you are "locked in" by a degree is not the right view. It is one of many steps you will take to move forward with your life. There certainly *are* people who lock in with one specialty and that's it forever. Some have that sort of passion. I would say that most people don't focus that tightly for an entire working lifetime.Bob

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 10:33:12 pm
content: If you're not good at math, then no. My poor math skills are the greatest stumbling block for me as a hobbyist. There are "simple" circuits that I cannot grasp. I wouldn't last a day as a professional electronics engineer.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:04:35 am
content: Once you understand the basic concepts you can get by without being a math whiz. Math has always been my biggest challenge as well, I've always been a natural at virtually every other aspect of engineering but math has always been a struggle. Once you are proficient at basic algebra then it doesn't have to be a big hindrance. It's helpful to understand some of the concepts of calculus but you don't really have to solve many equations by hand. There are so many tools these days that do the mathematical heavy lifting for you.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:17:09 am
content: HiA some basic question to ask:What do you think you will be doing as an engineer that you will enjoy?What skills are needed to be successful doing those things?Do the jobs in that skill area exist in a place you would be wiling to live?Do the jobs pay enough to give you a reasonable live style?Depending on the answers:Have you looked at what you can earn in other areas?Have you looked at the skills required in those areas?The bottom line is that in many ways, life is what sucks. You don't get to do nothing and make a good income as a result. You have to do something people will pay you for. That may take a while to sink in. Some people spend their life hopping from profession to profession, never sticking with any of them. They pile up a lot of debt. They also never gain enough "time in grade" to move very far forward. I'm not suggesting that you do something you hate. I am suggesting that you take a realistic view of the life ahead of you.Bob

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:21:37 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on May 05, 2017, 12:17:09 amI used to know a guy who was always waiting to make it big and find that perfect job, I don't know what eventually happened to him but he's probably still working crappy jobs to scrape by and living in debt. I tried to tell him that dreams are great but they don't pay the bills but it never seemed to sink in.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:27:51 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 05, 2017, 12:04:35 amThere are things like low pass and high pass filters, as an example, where one size does not fit all and designing the filter requires what I non-trivial equations. The circuits are simple, just a capacitor and resistor, but choosing the correct values is not trivial. It isn't impossible for me to design such a circuit, but what would take a competent engineer minutes to design would take me hours with a large amount of experimentation and trial and error. There is nothing wrong with that as a hobbyist, but no employer would stand for that. I wouldn't expect them to either.Personally, I'd love to know of those tools.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:42:55 am
content: HiHere's the problem:No rational employer is going to tell you they need to design a three element lowpass filter. If they did, you are in a job that barely pays minimum wage. To be valuable to somebody, you design a gizmo or a sub part of a gizmo. You may do it as an individual or as part of a team. The bigger the project, the more likelihood it will be a team. Small stuff is neat- you can do a lot of things. Big stuff is neat, you will become very skilled at a small range of tasks. Either way, you get a spec: "we need a WiFi chip that does 802.11 ad and picks up aircraft navigation beacons". Yes, somewhere in there you will find three element lowpass filters. They aren't the money item on the list. Being able to break the task into chunks is the first part of the effort. Moving those chunks to people who can deal with a chunk is next. Bringing it all back together into a whole is the final part. Yes that's a bit contrived, but it is basically how things work. On something small, you may do all the chunks yourself. You still break it down and put it back together.Anything that is simple enough to teach you in school simply is not enough to make money on. You have a week to go over something in class. A real problem would take months. You don't have the time at the undergraduate level. The coursework is deliberately picked to make it easy to teach (and to learn) the basics. That's all it is, the basics. The real stuff is what you will start learning once you get a job. It builds on what you need to have learned in school, but it's not going to lean equally on all every part of every course. Unfortunately math is at the base of just about all EE courses. At some point math will matter ....Bob

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:46:58 am
content: On subject of math is there any good books/resources that can act as a good cheat sheet for equations? My biggest challenge is understanding all the formulas, their function and what values actually go in there and whether you express them in mili, kilo, etc. Ex: I want to know how many turns I need in a transformer primary for a SMPS at a certain frequency and given core size. I want to be able to quickly look up what formula I need for that. Finding out other values is the thing of just flipping stuff around and doing some basic algebra, but my main challenge (and possibly others') is knowing what formula to use in first place and what to put in it.In some cases the unit is also not really explained. Like do they really want me to put teslas (that will be a very small decimal in most cases) or do they want me to put micro or mili teslas? Just as an example.I can google this stuff each time, but some kind of cheat sheet that has a table of all the units and a practical example could probably go a long way for those of us that arn't good at math.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 12:58:55 am
content: HiEvery specialty has it's own set of knowledge and stuff you need to learn. Designing magnetics for power supplies is a special piece of knowledge. Understanding how magnetics fit into this or that topology is another chunk of learning. Working out how the cost of magnetics bumps up against the cost of silicon to hit a givenefficiency number is why they pay you to do the work. If somebody could put it all in a cook book and give that to cloud base AI, they would. When they do, there is no money to be made and you move on to a more complex skill set. Once upon a time, people did 100 element filters by hand (4 elements per crystal, 24 crystals plus transformers). Rooms full of people did the math. Teams of people checked that math hour by hour for weeks on end. We don't do it that way any more. We put it in a PC and let it do the math ... the AI has taken over.Bob