USB to DC cable, is this possible? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 04:56:46 pm
content: I have been scouring the internet and have ended up here trying to make my own cable I guess.I have an old digital camera, Nikon E2Ns, and the batteries for it are not the easiest to find. But I do have a power adapter for it, I have a charger and everything to make it work, but I do car photography and need it be a little more mobile and not plugged into a wall. The adapter puts out about 8V.I want to make either a USB-C or USB-A 3.0 male to female DC cable. I want the USB side to provide the power to the dc port. and I know there are a ton out there, but this uses a dc plug that is 5.15mm x 1.7mm. I have already purchased a port that fits the dc part of the power adapter well.I kinda know how to solder, but I don't know what type of cable or USB ends to buy. Or I looked and saw USB-C breakout boards, do I need one of those? If I go over the voltage will it hurt the camera, don't want to break this one.Any help will be greatly appreciated. If more information is needed on the camera side I can provide links for manuals and some websites.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 05:23:16 pm
content: If it actually needs 8V, then you will need a boost converter. There are a lot of them based on XL6009 and similar ICs on AliExpress and similar sources.But you also need to check current requirements. Do you have the exact adapter model or full characteristics. USB port may not be able to supply the required current.Something like this is even smaller and easierhttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806193100891.html. Assuming the maximum output current is below the required value.

author: IsmAvatar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 05:39:17 pm
content: Yes, going over the camera's intended 8 volts would likely hurt the camera (likely pop a fuse in the camera, and then you'd need to find someone who knows how to open it up and replace the fuse, which is likely soldered onto the circuit board), You may be able to safely go a half a volt over or so, as they are built with tolerances.USB-A is limited to 5 volts, so you'd need to further boost that with a boost converter (like ataradov suggested), which would probably be more infrastructure than you're looking for, and may or may not be able to meet your amp requirements.Then there's USB-C PD, which is feasible but would also require some infrastructure. It can negotiate on preset voltages, with 9V being a common target, but 'negotiating' requires a device on the receiving end that can talk to the power supply (I'd suggest a "PD Trigger")... plus you'd probably want to drop that extra volt (a diode or two could do the trick, but you'd need to solder them somewhere *after* the negotiation device, but before the barrel jack, and make sure they're pointed the right way).I believe USB-C PPS (programmable power supply) is what you're looking for. Not all power supplies support it though. It's also likely to be a board, so you would need to solder your dc plug's wires to it (and possibly come up with an enclosure to protect it). Typically they can be programmed with a trimmer pot (looks like as box with a screw on the side, turn the screw to adjust the voltage) so measure the voltage with a multimeter before plugging it in.USB-C is powerful, being able to provide more current and voltage options, but only if the Power Supply supports it, and only if the cable supports it. Make sure you have a compliant power supply and cable if something is not working right.Also, remember to verify the polarity of the dc plug.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 05:44:57 pm
content: I have looked all over for specs on the adapter and I cant find anything. On the back of the charger it provides specs for what needs to be sent to the camera for it to work with the adapter and charging for the batteries. My wild guess is im trying to get the Camera section which is 8V 1.6A.The picture provided is for the charger, and all of its specs.

author: IsmAvatar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:16:44 pm
content: Yes, looks like you need 1.6A. That rules out USB-A, which has a limit of 0.5A at 5V, and even less at 8V (P=IV, P_USBA=1.5W. 1.5W/5V = .5A. If you boost to 8V then 1.5W/8V=.3125A)USB-C is still feasible though, as per my post above.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:40:08 pm
content: I see, so there really isn't an all in one solution for this. Because I want to be able to run the camera on a portable battery. What would I need to be able to make this work on that? or what would I need to purchase or should I try to get a schematic made? are there people on here that can help with that?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:43:31 pm
content: You need thishttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804346467700.htmlconfigured for 9V. 9V would likely be too much for the camera, but this is easily solved by adding a diode in series with the positive output (anode to the output of the module, cathode to the camera).When you plug that module into a power-delivery capable power bank, it will negotiate 9V output.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:57:06 pm
content: What type of diode should I get? I see a lot online, are there specific ones for just 1v? and what gauge of cable should I get?Thanks for all the help guys.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 07:06:27 pm
content: Any silicon diode with rated forward current of 2 A or more would be fine. Look for a diode with a forward voltage of 0.6 V or so. This would be the voltage drop this diode would provide. If Vf of the diode you pick is less, then you may need to use a couple in series.This is not ideal way to drop the voltage, but it should be fine. The voltage drop is close to the rated at the rated current. At lower currents, the drop would likely be less, so you will get higher output voltage if you are measuring the power supply by itself without the load. The voltage would drop even more and it should be fine once you connect the camera.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 07:39:53 pm
content: Thank you so much. I put some of those boards on order, but I found some with dip switches on amazon, would they work about the same or is there too much worry of the switches moving while in use? or could I get some to test all of this then when the ones come in I can put it together with less worry.Also im looking through diodes, im assuming I need a through hole diode? and the ones im looking at have a Vf of 680 mV, would that drop it too much or would it be negligible?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 07:43:38 pm
content: A link to what you found would be nice. Generally there is no reason for switched to move.680 mV should be fine. Through hole would be better, since you are going to be soldering wired to it, but ultimately it does not matter.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 07:45:40 pm
content: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-General-Semiconductor/SB260-E3-73?qs=u91jd7aysvMoA8RNuxeSiw%3D%3DSorry about that, I just wanted to make sure. as I don't really do this on the daily and don't want to fry this camera. Would you also happen to know what gauge of wire would be good for this?---Sorry I see you meant the board I found my bad.https://www.amazon.com/ACEIRMC-Trigger-Polling-Detector-Notebook/dp/B0BTHXKM91/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ql8FW-2LqfPtXkO4l6QMReiF14aY6YbdBa73kohOCHOzmDmU84H4ttmmeSMGTHgHbsaBL60LRIokGr6kf6IvSnd1tmrhYr9TSuH4nHeTzemwpDMAN5dP5fIfcm_d1y6lVRwRFl-XxX7jflxh3BW6Gt_t0h2-fOozFF3HvYqCu5rypMExjQ0xA4CRfWm3XdiN13amWVdo2nUuZuXIVDs9z8dm9RZD5mQpqOIZ66S-1A-C5lcd0IMuq8MfP23FVYXlUKtJftjTwCLxuU4voaitNVte1BPhzUqQIeHltLUFICc.yXlx0HXRAh9EIQZpH819t2yqVRQFNQf1fPXafeIU1mU&dib_tag=se&keywords=Type-C+PD2.0+PD3.0+9V+12V+15V+20V+Fast+Charge+Trigger+Polling+Detector+USB+Boost+Power+Supply+Change+Module+Charger+Board+Tools&qid=1721589964&s=industrial&sr=1-1

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 07:56:33 pm
content: The diode should be fine. And those switches have recessed sliders, it is really hard to make them switch on accident. It should be fine.Any wire you can reasonably solder should be fine. 20 AWG and lower would work.

author: IsmAvatar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 08:01:49 pm
content: For 2 amps, you would want 18 AWG or thicker (thicker means lower number, so 16, 14, etc are all fine). Speaker wire would be fine.The switches generally don't move too easily, but if you are concerned, just put a spot of glue on it after you've set them.That diode looks fine to me, Schottky has a lower Vf, while you could also go for a regular diode such as 1N540x (like 1N5407) with a Vf of 1.0, but again, the one you've picked out seems to meet all your specs just fine. Through Hole diodes will be easier for you to solder.You should also verify that your Trigger board is capable of 2Amps.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 08:03:42 pm
content: Thank you guys so much for your time. Ill get to it and come back with results or question if something goes wrong, hopefully not frying the camera.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2024, 08:29:21 pm
content: Alright, Im back. So far I have just been practicing soldering wires together, a lot harder than I thought it would be, but its getting there. Im just waiting for my diodes.I just want to double check how would I check the Amps of the board, I dont really have anything to connect to it, and I tried just putting my dads old multimeter on it and I just get 0.00. I then learned I have to put it in series, and even after that it keeps going to 0.00. any ideas for me? Thanks in advance.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2024, 09:22:01 pm
content: Why do you need to check that? The current will be what device is consuming. If it can't deliver that in practice, either the voltage will sag and the camera won't work or the module will overheat and go up in smoke.To check for real you will need a dummy load capable of the rated current.It is hard to tell what yo are measuring, so it is hard to tell what you are doing wrong. But if you are measuring in a current mode outputs of the module, then yo have likely blown the fuse in the meter.

author: BennoG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:05:11 am
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 23, 2024, 08:29:21 pmYou probably blew the fuse in the multimeter by doing that.Or you have a USB-C power bank that does not support PDBenno

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 11:14:26 am
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 21, 2024, 06:57:06 pmI don't recommend to use diode to convert 9V to 8V. Since you cannot predict diode voltage drop on wide range of current, this is not reliable way and may leads to your camera damage. The proper way is to use DC regulator, but 9V is too small to get 8V on the output, some LDO may work, but it needs to handle high current. It's better to use 12V DC trigger with and connect it to 8V DC regulator.Regulator can be linear or DC/DC, but since your camera needs 1.6A, linear regulator will be heating a lot.USB-A PD charger which supports 12V 1.5A should handle it with no issue.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 02:59:45 pm
content: Why bother with USB? Just power source to your plug. The power source can be a battery pack of some source. By the way you have a very cool camera.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 03:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 21, 2024, 04:56:46 pmA simple nontechnical solution would be to buy one of those portable 120VAC power banks and plug the existing adapter into that. Not as efficient, and more bulky than a custom battery pack, but should be easy to find.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:28:16 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 23, 2024, 09:22:01 pmI just was thinking it would be worth a shot, as someone recommended it.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:30:33 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on July 24, 2024, 11:14:26 amThe Trigger board I got can do 12v, could I just get a 8v regulator and that would work or do I need to get a different board? Thanks for the recommendation.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on July 24, 2024, 02:59:45 pmThanksQuote from: Kim Christensen on July 24, 2024, 03:19:00 pmI have thought of this idea, I just want to get or make something smaller, that I can use with the PD Anker batteries I already have.

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 24, 2024, 08:30:33 pmThat´s the way I would go. Take the 12V trigger board with an adjustable buck converter. Should be working fine and is more efficient than everything else.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 10:00:57 pm
content: If you can have the plug that plug into the camera then I simply just use 2 cells Li-Ion.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 01:22:32 am
content: Quote from: Phil1977 on July 24, 2024, 08:46:19 pmDo you have a recommendation for a Converter, I am finding a lot online, some with just adjustable Voltage, and some with adjustable Voltage and Amps.https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converter-5-3V-32V-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B078Q1624B/ref=sr_1_7?crid=25BBJHEOPPVM5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.bcst-xXQU27Vt8yy-pUyye6G2UpeShBdnR7vcK-jb6sDexBraLAllE8dKvJZMoMQoFJNmqJ9qpKOhFIhUhOcz6Kc7YLTSybeV6oXSD6tmQvX_IORDm9FWt5TjIu1U0o-Iryo5Je2mk67CSv0Q6Clr9rihAsy1tH56wH6EzzP0pPNSYyMWLvv3w7wWZFZ6Q7HAHJZmIYjovtXY7rQ9ugOsqBrPUdWgSI9FEMMGI9imoHZboIlUpntddPxsVsteUhyHcd54HP9E9i9tJM6iuCJYMaliuEIupb1SSTALuz8mbk.n9-PbvZ7TQKIwiLXBebpzYl45LESuKEpsJ03Mj-BGHo&dib_tag=se&keywords=adjustable%2Bbuck%2Bconverter&qid=1721870232&sprefix=adjustable%2Bbuck%2Bconverter%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-7&th=1I see this one by DROK, is that a reputable one? I like the idea of being able to adjust both the Voltage and Amps.Also with bringing this to Car shows and I live in FL,US. would I need to add more heat sinks, cause its gets pretty toasty, and I know these boards dont play very nice with heat. Or with the voltage and amps im running it would be low enough it will last long enough for me to use it for a while then be able to change cameras, then come back to it?Thanks Everyone in advance.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 01:26:19 am
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on July 24, 2024, 10:00:57 pmThat might work, although I dont really want to create my own battery, I already own too many portable ones. Thanks Though.

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 05:30:29 am
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 25, 2024, 01:22:32 amYes, this should do for experimenting. It´s nice to see the input and output values on these converters. The one from "DROK" is just a rebrand of some part you get even cheaper directly from Aliexpress - but at least it has some acrylic housing and it´s quickly delivered by amazon.For the power consumption of a digital camera it should be more than fine with the equipped heatsinks.Be careful with the current setting of these things. It´s often extremely slow, it may be suited to charge batteries or drive LEDs but it´s no replacement for a lab grade supply. It can be dangerous to short circuit though it´s overcurrent protected.For the everydays use cable I´d take something without "On-Off"-button and without display. But it seems a good idea to take the one with the display to see how much power you really need and if everything is working and then go for a smaller one.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 09:11:14 pm
content: Alright, I have the converter on order should be here tomorrow or Saturday. But I did not stop the order for the diodes, so I wanted to test out my skills on a board atleast.So I soldered the diode to the positive side with the anode toward the board, and I am only managing to get .7 Volts out of the board. I have the battery I want to use plugged in and it gives out 9V, but after the diode it only gives .7, am I missing something?Also this is just me testing the board I got and wanting to see how all this stuff works. Not the final product.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 09:52:17 pm
content: While stripe on the diode is a cathode. You are observing a Vf = 0.7 V.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 10:07:25 pm
content: Your diode is backwards.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 12:48:11 am
content: Quote from: Kim Christensen on July 25, 2024, 10:07:25 pmYes thank you, didn't really know how they go so I just looked something up and I probably should've added "In series" to the search. But it does work, but it only drops it by .1V so we are getting somewhere. Not sure if the diode is wrong or if I did something wrong. but at least it is something.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 01:15:48 am
content: Voltage drop will go up with the load. This is one of the disadvantages of this method compared to the proper regulator. At the same time, the way original one is specified, makes me think, the actual voltage does not matter that much.And you will be within +/-10%, which is what products are mostly designed to tolerate.

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 02:47:32 am
content: Well, if youused this diodethat would explain it. That's because it's a Schottky diode which typically has a lower forward drop than a plain old silicon diode.ie: 0.2-0.45V for a Schottky vs 0.6-0.8V of a silicon diode is typical.As ataradov mentioned, the voltage drop will increase with current draw so it's not perfect. In this case a silicon diode, with it's higher Vf, would have been a better choice. Put a small load on there and you'll see more of a drop across the diode. A meter by itself hardly loads it at all.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 09:53:19 pm
content: I see how this diode work, something I definitely didnt know.But I did get the Adjustable buck converter, and I got it to work, turned it down to 8V and managed to not fry the camera, it took pictures just fine and the pictures saved fine to the card. I noticed that the camera would pull between 1.3 - 1.5 Amps.Anyone have suggestions for any premade boards, I am finding a lot of those online, or parts that I would need to get 8V with 2A?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 10:48:03 pm
content: Premade boards for what specifically? From what you are describing, you seem to have everything you need.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 11:00:02 pm
content: Quote from: nfsmaster on July 25, 2024, 01:26:19 amSo you don't want to build a power pack then what do you intend to use as power source? If you are going to use a power unit with USB then you would need to build the voltage converter which is more involved than a battry pack.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 01:53:29 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 26, 2024, 10:48:03 pmYeah it works great, was just thinking of something a bit smaller as I see a lot of boards online that are smaller than the whole setup, but if it works it works

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 02:21:37 am
content: You can link those boards you see and we can tell if they would work.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 05:07:48 am
content: https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Step-down-Converter-1-25-37V-Voltmeter/dp/B00LSEBYHU/https://www.amazon.com/LM2596-Converter-3-0-40V-1-5-35V-Supply/dp/B08NV3JCBC/https://www.amazon.com/Converter-DROK-Regulator-Inverter-Transformer/dp/B01NALDSJ0/These are just a few quick ones I saw, I am seeing a bunch that are all the same. Also I know im using amazon, kinda a time person and dont mind paying for it already in the US instead of waiting.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 05:17:30 am
content: What do you use now if those are "compact"?LM2596 one is very common and generally works. The others are way too complicated and big.

author: nfsmaster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 04:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 27, 2024, 05:17:30 amThe Drok board from earlier is currently what im using, but if that is considered small in the electronics world then maybe ill just stick with that. Ill have to figure out some type of container to put it in for me to bring it around.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2024, 04:54:55 pm
content: Well, obviously any board with a display and controls would be big.I assumed you've already got LM2596, since this is the first things you will find when searching for buck DC-DC converters. This board is reasonably small and will fit into a small box along with the PD trigger. Definitely get that over the display one.The only thing that could get much smaller is a custom board.

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2024, 08:48:45 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 27, 2024, 05:17:30 amLM2596 is a good choice for these things. Just be aware there are lots of fake LM2596 on boards you get at amazon or aliexpress. Usually they work while idle, they only deliver around 1 instead of 3 amps and if you check the switching frequency then it´s far off the LM2596s fixed 150kHz value.