How to express my hobby properly to others... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pm
content: Trying to explained to somebody (a secondary school teacher) that I am not in "the Business of Computing, Coding and Electronics" but thecraftof Computing, Coding and Electronics.Like "a painter (trade)" vs "a painter (artist)"? (not that I am at all an artist).I'm not doing it for a job, but doing it for pure interest and to satisfy a need to do something challenging and to express my thoughts.What are the right words for that?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 11:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmOT:I don't know, last time I had a similar discussion with a couple of persons regarding my job and hobby with computers and digital architectures, it ended I was said "your projects were/are rubbish. you were/are a laughing stock", which hurt me a bit, even because said in public.So since then I avoid to explain to somebody the difference between "a painter (trade)" vs "a painter (artist)", and I do what I like to do, or what i need for a living, and I care no more what others do think or say.I don't think I am an artist, never been an artist, but for sure my "artworks" must have caused some kind of emotional reaction

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:04:01 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 11, 2021, 11:47:39 pmFor being OT, that was directly on topic.All of my projects are useless and of limited utility to anybody but me, but at the same time none of them are worthless and I don't regret making any of them.Take for example this week's little play of making I2S work on the Pi Pico. It's been done before - butit hasn't been done before by me, and I learned a lot while doing it.Maybe we are just eccentric, not mad

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:05:03 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmSome short phrase equivalent to that sentence? Like: I have fun tinkering?If they don't understand that, then they don't understand hobbies.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:13:42 am
content: Quote from: retiredfeline on February 12, 2021, 12:05:03 amFor me, tinkering has the sound of "playing around the edges". I tend to go full-on "XKCD Crazy straws" on things:

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:21:54 am
content: I think the distinction will be lost on them. And anyway why care what they think as long as you are enjoying your hobby?To borrow from Lincoln, you can be understood by some people some of the time, but you can't be understood by some people all of the time, let alone all people all of the time.

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:28:32 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmI think the right words are what you wrote (doing it for pure interest and to satisfy a need to do something challenging and to express my thoughts).Or, "It keeps me off the streets."

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 01:21:22 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on February 12, 2021, 12:28:32 amI like that you left off the 'and out of trouble' part that is usually associated with that expression.As for people who don't 'get' what we do, well, I'll try to explain but if they won't get it then they probably never will, and I won't lose sleep over their lack of understanding. My interest in these things is for me. If someone wants to share it, that's great; if not well then it's their loss as far as I'm concerned, but no skin off of my nose. I'm not harming anyone, and beyond that I've no need to justify to anyone besides me.-Pat

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 01:23:38 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmErr. Hobby. It's there in your post title.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:48:29 am
content: It's a hobby. I don't think there's any better way to put it.Everyone has a different take on their hobbies, and sometimes two people have totally different approaches to the same hobby. For example, I have two friends that are really into RC airplanes. One loves to build airplanes and rarely flies. The other hates to build, but loves to fly.In my case, I get the most satisfaction out of electronics by doing as much as possible myself. When working with microcontrollers I don't use canned libraries--I prefer to write all of the code myself, including boot code, peripheral drivers, real-time operating systems, filesystems, etc. Ditto with hardware--I prefer to do design and PCB layout myself, even if it's already been done by someone else before. Yes, this takes much more time and effort than just using pieces someone else has already implemented, but that's the way I like it.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:56:37 am
content: It is nice when someone notices or appreciates your hobby. I get great satisfaction from making a widget/fixing a gadget for appreciative friends.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 06:45:07 am
content: Yep its in the title. It's ahobby. So in full its called an electronics hobbyistThere are lots of other hobbies that people have. Some like to build RC planes, some like to make wooden furniture, some like gardening, some do knitting, some collect stamps, some people modify cars, some people shoot pieces of paper with a gun, some like to go fishing. Explain it to them using those examples. People don't go fishing because they are hungry and need food, or plan to haul back one full truckload of fish to sell to food processing companies and make a profit. So why are they doing it? They don't really get anything useful out of it! Well.. They enjoy the piece and quiet of floating along a lake in a small boat and seeing what they can catch out of that lake. I personally don't see how that would appeal to me and it all sounds pretty boring, but i can see how some people do enjoy it and i fully respect that.I personally believe that every person should find at least one hobby. It gives you something to live for, something to help you relax after a hard day or hard week.If anything electronics is actually one of the more productive hobbies since it can lead to a decent career in the field. Pretty much all of the good electronics engineers started off as electronics hobbyists. Its a very board and complex field that takes a lot of knowledge, so only people who are truly passionate about the subject actually have the dedication to learn so much of it.EDIT:Oh and people in this field tend to also be very technical minds with a good understanding of science. So they can do well in pretty much any engineering field. They like to know why and how things work. So someone who is an electronics engineer can likely look under the hood of a car and point out what the stuff under there is and what it does, even if they are not into cars and never worked on one, while an average joe that is not into cars will call anything under the hood as being 'the engine'.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:58:13 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmFeel like if someone said that in front of me, they would come across as a bit of a wanker to me, in my opinion.Just do what you do. Enjoy and don't be anal about such pedantic things.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:44:29 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on February 12, 2021, 07:58:13 amI agree with that opinion. The process of putting concepts behind a bunch of fancy words will affect it's reception far more than the words themselves.Don't try to wrap it all up in a title - that just won't work. Most people are not so well tuned to the subtleties of language, especially when they have no points of reference - but that is a weakness I have observed becoming more and more widespread. The current social media "speak" culture is accelerating the degradation.Keep it simple and let them understand through you explaining a few bits and pieces. The trick here is to find some things that will hold their attention long enough for them to "get it".

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:24:42 am
content: "I'm learning how to do interesting things I've never done before. What are you doing?"Scientists discover what exists in nature. Engineers create new things that haven't yet been seen in nature.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 10:27:07 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on February 12, 2021, 07:58:13 amI agree with "do what you do and enjoy it". It works good!What doesn't work is when you share what you do, and some dude finds reasonable to insult you aspersonand yourworksimply because can't understand what "done just for fun" | "done to learn learn something new" means in your project introduction (readme.txt | readme.md).

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 10:44:42 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 12, 2021, 10:27:07 amIf some dude goes out of their way to belittle you and scoff at what you do, then clearly that person is at a disadvantage. His world is smaller than yours and he feels small. These people are a waste of time; and so you simply move on. I mean you could engage with them, and be pedantic about what you do as a hobby - but why? Every minute you waste engaging with people like that could be better spent on more constructive things in your life.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:51:47 am
content: I can only echo what others have said above. It's a shame that the mere concept of a hobby, whatever it is, is seen to many as "nerdy" or "man in a shed" type activities. TV and social media seem to be the only accepted activities nowIt's a little bit ironic that my wife hates me spending time in my lab office, but she loves TV programmes likeThe Repair Shopwhich is mandatory viewing. Nor does it stop her bringing a steady stream of stuff home from her school for me to fix.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 01:16:02 pm
content: I do electronics as a hobby and job because there is always something new to discover (for me). That doesn't mean it always works first try.. but I really like learning, mastering and understanding new things. For that I solo many things that are out available online, just for the sake of it.Similarly, the video games I tend to play are creative or skill based in nature. E.g. Factorio, Minecraft, flight simulators etc.If instead I just want a shot of dopamine I will just watch TV, scroll social media and play linear video games. Those tasks are something you can always complete. For some tasks you don't even need to be awake to do them.Likewise, if I want to do a project quickly with a friend or family member, I will use an Arduino or ESP32 instead to get fast results and a low entrance to the field of electronics.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:16:11 pm
content: So many hobbies boil seem to boil down to the same principals, I don't think electronics/computing/programming etc are any exception, the desire to solve problems, use tools, improve tools and methods... the only difference in my opinion between is that a "good electronics project"'s quality can be objectively measured (to an extent) whereas art/music/creative stuff follows more flexible rules, but its still that process of seeing, judging and improvingI normally tell non-engineer types that "the difference them and an engineer is that the engineer only NEEDs the solve one sudoku before realising that completing the book is just a waste of time that would be better spent writing the code to solve ALL sudokus, and that just so happens to me what I find more fun"

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 02:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 12, 2021, 09:24:42 amWhy draw a distinction? Based on this, I'm a scientist and an engineer. And a mathematician.

author: trophosphere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:10:51 pm
content: At the risk of going on a bit of tangent, what is the difference between being a hobbyist and a maker? I keep hearing people referring to themselves as makers but think to myself, based on their description, aren't they just a hobbyist?

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:24:36 pm
content: Reading between the lines here:https://blog.anthonythomas.com/the-case-for-hobbyists-in-the-maker-movementI suppose that a maker is something who produces a saleable product using hobbyist capabilities rather than having a professional enterprise with conventional industrial infrastructure.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:58:58 pm
content: Quote from: trophosphere on February 12, 2021, 03:10:51 pmContent creators on Youtube are specialists in enthusiastically filming what they do and think and do for audience entertainment, which sometimes makes them to earn.Content-Makers on Hackaday are usually "hackers" who are also specialist in enthusiastically writing with style what they do and think, which sometimes makes them reached by other hackers who are not good at writing with style, but very skilled with firmware, software, Linux, etc and hardware stuff, and if the enthusiasm is enough, it may bring to great projects.In these two groups I see guys who start out as talented and motivated hobbyists, and then become talented specialists who make money from their hobby by leveraging their skills and communication-talent.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 09:21:05 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmInvestigation and learnings of the deeper workings of the digital world.Just don't expect any teacher to have a sufficient grasp of such things to have any idea of what you're talking about.And that's the really sad thing !Sadly there are very few I've crossed paths with that have gained my respect.

author: 25 CPS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 03:52:52 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on February 11, 2021, 11:21:55 pmActually, I think you've explained it quite well. You do it because you enjoy it and you're curious about it. I really hope your teacher wasn't putting you down for your interests.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 04:51:27 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on February 12, 2021, 02:48:29 amI've encountered that same thing. I don't mind building, I've built a few planes, it's something I can do and I'm glad I did it but for the most part it's a means to an end, the flying is the part I really enjoy. I've run into people who have the attitude that the only "real" way to do it is to build it from sticks the way they used to. No thanks, the first time I crashed I probably would have thrown in the towel and given up, I just don't get that much pleasure out of that part and I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that.With electronics I tend to enjoy the design and building part more than using the finished project but if someone would rather just go buy a widget that does what they need I don't really have a problem with that either. In the end I don't really care how others perceive my hobbies, I have done electronics for work too but I found it to be immensely less enjoyable when I HAVE to work on a particular project, and deal with deadlines and feature creep, politics and various constraints that are beyond my control. I just found out I'd rather do it as a hobby. I've also built a reputation as the guy who fixes a lot of the stuff others claim can't be fixed but again, I do that on the side, on my terms.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 05:19:28 am
content: There are plenty of "slap-dash" tradesmen around, but very few craftsmen. Same with electronics. Most PCB designers don't treat their work as a craft and as such don't do a great job. Gone are the days when a PCB layout was considered artwork.A colleague once told me that if you are single and want to impress a chick, tell them you are a designer and they will be interested. But tell them you are an electronics engineer, technician or electronics hobbyist and they will run the other way. Tell them you are a ham radio operator and they might just tell you get f......

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 08:13:19 am
content: You have a vocation. I think society has lost a lot of the respect for the notion that a person would devote their term to perfecting a craft, even when such a craft has obvious technological benefits for society at large. Validation now seems to come primarily or exclusively from ones participation in a corporatised or institutionalised environment.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 12:45:24 pm
content: My late father (an EE) had this saying. There are workmen and there are craftsmen. Craftsmen are never happy with the best they can do because, they are always striving to do better. Whereas workmen are always happy with the least effort that they can get away with.Workman or craftsman, it's about attitude, not just aptitude.