Rev C - Spoiling all our fun - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Alec
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 19, 2012, 08:22:28 am
content: Hi Dave,I recently discovered your YouTube channel and have been watching the PSU series. I was excited about being able to by this thing as a kit until I watched the last video about Rev C and saw all those no-lead flat packages. You then confirmed in the comments my heartbreaking concern that in this kit the board would come pre-assembled.Now, to Aunt May that would be a "kit". But, to the target audience, it's really just of a product with some minor assembly required. If we don't get to solder anything then what's the fun?I think you should design it as a moderate skill-level SMD based kit. This would allow several options:A) Machine assembled PCB, enclosure, etc - For Aunt MayB) Unpopulated PCB, loose components, enclosure - A proper kit for your core audience. Even with a healthy repackaging and shipping fees, the 100+ piece discounts you'd get would likely be more cost effective then us going to Digi and purchasing singles.C) PCB only, and a Digikey scavenger hunt - The PCB is the hard/expensive part of DIY electronics. I may already have many of (well.. a few of) these components. Tracking down parts is half the fun.D) Design files only - Break out the Ferric Chloride!!Please think about it. Most of the people who would buy your PSU kit are hobbyist who actually ENJOY building electronics. And we're not all gorilla-fingered idiots; so you don't have to limit your design to strictly through-hole packages. Just please keep it to easily hand solderable parts (0805 skill-level stuff, preferably).An electronics kit should require a soldering iron and not just a screw driver.I, along with a great many of you viewers, look forward to being able to buy one of these kits.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2012, 09:19:46 am
content: It's no longer meant to be a "kit". Dave has already mentioned a few times his reason for switching to SMD with pre-assembly. I think some of it had to do with people not being able to completely assemble kits and have a working product, dealing with support/complaints etc. I remember he mentioned someone just shipping back a half completed kit once wanting a refundA lot of what you would get out of a kit, in terms of a learning experience, you get through watching his videos anyway.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2012, 11:20:56 pm
content: I think all should be possible, with the exception of B. Breaking up individual components for packaging to make an SMD kit is a nightmare. I know Dave would not do this. He is getting the parts in reel form for pick and place machines, so cutting up lengths would just be annoying work.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2012, 11:35:00 pm
content: An SMD kit would be:1) More expensive2) More support headache when they don't work because people screwed up the soldering or put the wrong parts in the wrong location3) Take a long time to build4) Require a lot of detailed build documentation5) More chance of a part being accidentally left out, dropped, lost etc, rendering the kit disappointing non-function until replacement parts are sort.It's just a really bad idea all round.So sorry, no SMD kit.I might make bare boards available.Trust me, I have done SMD kits before, and quite frankly,no one wants them. So I'd be going to a massive amount of trouble to cater for a few people who actually want an SMD kit.There were (still are?) Arduino kits you could buy, and it was the same result, no one bought them.I might make the bare board available, and of course the design is OSHW, so you can always take the design files and do it yourself.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 19, 2012, 11:39:20 pm
content: Quote from: sacherjj on March 19, 2012, 11:20:56 pmAnd of course I wouldn't do it myself, I'd have to pay someone to cut, label and bag all the SMD components. And yes, it would screw up the reels too.It's just begging to end up mess and go horribly wrong.Dave.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 12:10:15 am
content: Ug. SMD kits would be terrible. Soldering SMD is slow enough as it is, but when you just have a list of locations and parts you don't really learn much. Most of what you would learn could be accomplished with a much simpler kit that was designed specifically to be educational. It doesn't save money, it doesn't make it particularly more hackable, and it opens you up to a whole host of problems.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 01:37:45 am
content: So if you want to have a play with soldering SMT parts for educational purposes, what is the best option? Get a generic protoboard and build up a few simple circuits on it? Design your own PCB and have it etched? Don't bother until you have a real project to make?

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 03:13:49 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 20, 2012, 01:37:45 amIn my opinion you should try o learn how to solder SMD parts before starting a real project that requires them. You may encounter problems with the project in addition to not being able to solder the components right.Though I try to avoid SMD components whenever possible. Trough hole is easier to solder and use with a perfboard (and perfboard is cheaper than a normal PCB, I don't have to design it or try to etch it myself and getting the board wrong, oh, and with perfboard it's easier to correct mistakes).

author: Alec
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 03:14:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 19, 2012, 11:35:00 pmYeah, I didn't think you would actually do a SMD kit. I was just suggesting that you should avoid the hard-to-solder stuff and that you don't need to stick to strictly through-hole, as was the original intention. This would be to make it plausible for people to build their own after they sellout and you move on to greater things. (And even though it's OSHW, it would be tricky to redesign out those parts that are only available in frustrating packages.)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 04:18:16 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 20, 2012, 01:37:45 amFor learning to solder, an old PCB from the time consumer equipment still used components that you could see without microscope, i.e. 0805 and SOIC/TQFP, is useful. It gives you free components to practice with, and you can attempt both soldering and desoldering without worrying about killing components.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 05:15:05 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 20, 2012, 01:37:45 ambuy your prototyping parts in smd format and solder them to generic breakout boards.im a lot less likely to lose or damage a IC if its on a breakout board.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2012, 07:01:20 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 20, 2012, 01:37:45 amAs pointed out, in many cases SMD comes per-assembled. This means that you want to learn not just soldering but reworking on SMD boards. For that, take any spare device and try removing parts, cleaning the PCB and putting the parts back. This way, you'll learn what works with your equipment, what doesn't, what tools you need to buy and most importantly, you'll have done it, so you are not scared at your first real project or at the thought of having to replace a 100 pin IC.Extra points if the device still works when you have taken the major IC out and put it back, without ruining the PCB.