Coronavirus cure - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 03:45:38 pm
content: for the people have invested in toilet roll who think the Coronavirus will give you the shits Coronavius actually comes from the Corona discharge from 5G networks, electric pylons and radio magnetic fields to avoid the Coronavius and become immune get yourself to aluminum foil to protect the head and face triple layer or more the best effect and if you com into contact with a infected person extend to full body with 5 + layers

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 03:49:18 pm
content: Did you miss the last roll and now have nothing to wipe your ass?My sister in UK told me all toilet paper and eggs are gone.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 03:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 13, 2020, 03:49:18 pmShould say something about what the average british person considers essential.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:07:26 pm
content: TP is gone everywhere. It is surreal. I thought it was just memes. But yesterday I went to buy some tea and saw that there was not a roll of TP in the whole store. This is just stupid.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:07:26 pmWell, I thought it was as well, but when you see that an increasing number of countries are urging people to stay home - and no one really knows for how long, we can already suspect that 15 days will become 30, then 45, then... who knows? Many say that it will last at least until summer (it may even get worse by then due to conditions), so if you're stuck home for that long, you better have the necessities I guess. This is looking bad.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:14:17 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:07:26 pmI was in store an hour ago. Toilet paper is there.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:15:13 pm
content: But you won't be sitting home 24/7 for 45 days. You still still have to go grocery shopping, may be much less and being more careful, but still. You can pick up some TP at the same time.Why hoard it?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 13, 2020, 04:14:17 pmPeople in Latvia have better judgement, I guess. Or better supply chain of TP

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:49:21 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:16:00 pmSay them that Putin comes to dinner.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 04:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 13, 2020, 04:11:25 pmThis isn't China where they bolt your door shut, you will be able to go out and buy necessities like food, medicine and even that TP. Or a relative or a colleague could always resupply you if required. There are also home delivery services. Or one can always make a deal with a neighbor to bring you supplies if you are sick and must stay at home.Don't panic, people. Stockpiling food and such will only make the food to go to waste (can you imagine eating pasta for a month??) and panic buying and hoarding will cause empty shelves because no store can restock it that fast - causing even more panic and shortages.Nobody is going to die from hunger or lack of TP, so don't be stupid.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:14:47 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 13, 2020, 04:56:16 pmThe chinese goverment don't allow go out of home for buying meal? do you really believe this?.Then this is a paranormal phenophenomenon in the Comunist Regim Chinahttps://youtu.be/k2Da3bdzGBY?t=666

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:32:24 pm
content: What do you do during that 0.5h left?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:15:13 pmThing is, nobody knows at this point what we will or won't be allowed to do.We can just suppose governments will have to find reasonable ways of handling this so people don't starve. And yes we have the example of China, which so far managed to take pretty drastic steps without wreaking complete havoc. But how long would this be sustainable?Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:15:13 pmIt's a very common behavior. I've seen people hoard supplies at the slightest sign of shortage, so this should not be surprising at all. Given that there are even more unknowns here than usual, it's understandable. The only way to stop this is either to reassure people in a clear way - which may not be enough - or forbid it altogether by setting up supply quotas. Now this is really going to look like war time.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:54:40 pm
content: Stocking some foodstuff that does not go bad quickly is a very sensible thing to do, but people should do that normally, without any crisis going on. At the very least, do what I did, and stockpile somethingweeksbefore the others do, so that you are not a part of the supply problem. If people did it a month earlier on average, buying stuff would spread out over several weeks, and the supply chain would have time to react through its normal feedback loops. Also being early, before the panic, allows you to make rational decisions (of not buying foodstuff that goes bad because you don't want to eat them).I stocked some basic foods weeks before the large-scale public panic (which started here yesterday, and will get much worse because the authorities and the government have totally fucked up everything in the traditional, totally expected Finnish "the most important think is to fake keeping cool, and if there is even a small risk of looking stupid by overreacting, it's better to underreact, and nothing bad will ever happen in Finland" way. For example, people coming directly from northern Italy,withthe symptoms on while already on the plane, were not only not quarantined, but also denied testing, despite numerous attempts to get treatment! But our public healthcare system which we once were proud of, has already nearly crashed even before the corona, so it's only to be expected. Oh, sorry for the sidetrack...)Optimally, it's stuff that you like to eat in any case, and which won't expire in two years or so. If you have a stockpile for one month with stuff that expires in two years, it means you need to eat that stuff from the stockpile FIFO regularly at 4.2% duty cycle - 95.8% of the food you eat can be outside of your stock FIFO. You just need to come up with a way so that yourememberto use the stockpile every now and then (and to restock it).But being a responsible (for yourself, and your close ones) adult is, IMHO, understanding and managing things like this. It's not too hard. If you can design a frequency compensation network, you should be able to do it.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2020, 05:46:55 pmYou could theoretize that there is nodirectreplacement - the washing procedure you describe is not certainly normal for many Westeners. By comparison, there literally are hundreds of different kinds of "foods" you can stockpile, so it doesn't completely focus on one certain type of foodstuff. We are very accustomed to eating as many different kinds of foods as possible anyway, but we always get the same toilet paper.Maybe, additionally, people lose track of how much they consume. They think that it's the same thing to buy "1 unit" of toilet paper, and "1 unit" of food, while in reality, you need only maybe 0.05 units of toilet paper per 1 unit of food. (Whatever the unit is. For toilet paper, the units are already quite large! I bet if they sold 1 roll at the time instead of, say, 12, people would by 1/12th of the rolls they do now, i.e., same number of units!)In any case, it's kind of funny. While stocking some food, toilet paper didn't even cross my mind.

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 06:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2020, 05:46:55 pmmaybe its becuse the prepers on you tube say its an luxery product and could be traded LOL the new currency

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:29:07 pm
content: As Siwastaja said. It may be a cultural thing, but we'd be lost without TP in many parts of the world, including Europe.Sure if you really had no choice you would do without, but to us it would then really look like survival mode, not business as usual. It may not matter as much for people from other parts of the world. And I guess people don't want to switch to survival mode quite yet.Anyway, as I said, sure people are often overreacting when there's a possible shortage. But as others have said, you may also see that as just being responsible and anticipating.It's true that by doing so, they will just trigger the shortage before it even happens, if it does.But OTOH, not preparing yourself and just relying on mother government to care for you may also be debatable.Thing is, we're just absolutely not used to this and we haven't learned how to handle crisis situations like this on a personal/family level. We're all used to a society where everything is abundant and easy to get, so when things get potentially not as easy, we're completely lost. And this is quite logical.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:32:00 pm
content: Finally my Costco habits benefit me. I always buy massive packs of TP and have enough rolls left for 3 months of isolation.Of course, I've run out of rice and pasta, so I'll probably starve...

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:32:41 pm
content: There is no point stocking food because it's considered a basic necessity and will be provided/rationed/whatever if SHTF unless STHF so hard that there is no food at all.But with toilet paper, somebody will always argue that it's of lower priority than food so you may end up having to do without

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:41:13 pm
content: Modern households do not use (toilet) paper.They are paperless. They are Green.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 13, 2020, 03:49:18 pmAccording to a notice in my local supermarket, the shortage of eggs is down to all the flooding we've had here recently. I'm not sure what that says about the fate of the hens, but in terms of panic, the ass wiping still seems to be key.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:17:43 pm
content: Another viral thread..I'll leave this here:https://youtu.be/qPpfLiIODRk

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2020, 05:46:55 pmWhat happened to corn cob forbutt wiping?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 13, 2020, 07:29:07 pmThe key is being early. This concerns all kinds of actions, be it the threshold for putting people in quarantine, or stockpiling food. The sooner you do it, the easier it is, and the smaller the consequences. By being early, you can take actions that are, by the standards of that time, considered quite "strong", but they are still objectively quite mild and of small negative consequences. By being early, you always are a step ahead and have the option to take progressively stronger actions, if still needed. And if you did overreact, you didn't go very far, and did little harm.If the feedback loop has a long delay, the error term keeps increasing despite the feedback actions. Often, feedforward is the answer.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 13, 2020, 05:38:42 pmSeriously, if we get to the point where people will not be able to go get food in one way or another, then this would likely be the least of your concern.It is a serious epidemic but that doesn't mean that everyone will get sick at the same time, that everyone will be out of commission for weeks so you won't have supplies in stores because there won't be anyone to make them or to deliver them or that people won't start revolting if you try to keep them locked down without supplies. If it gets that far then it would make little sense to maintain a quarantine because you would either die due to the disease or because of hunger.Even the Spanish flu didn't have people running out of food - and that was during a war, to boot.You are panicking and worrying way too much, IMO.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:07:26 pmDon't worry, the New York Times is still selling TP, albeit in large sheet size.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:42:56 pm
content: The TP hoarding is indeed very strange. I mean it's convenient stuff to have on hand and I have plenty to last me for a few months because it's something I've always bought in bulk at Cosco because it doesn't go bad, but it wouldn't be a complete disaster if I ran out. I mean one can always hop in the shower and wash up, or improvise in various other ways. Modern TP has only been around since the 1800s, people survived without it even without all the other modern conveniences we have.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 13, 2020, 07:29:07 pmYes, it's very debatable, I can't understand that line of thinking at all.I normally buy my own food, and like to cook. I bet many think the same way. I don't normally expect the government to bring food to my door. Despite the corona, I want to keep living my life normally - this includes being able to prepare food, without special arrangements.Why the heck should I throw my hands up and wait for government to start bringing me foodnow? Quite the opposite, they likely have better things to do right now.So sorry everybody, but I will continue having some food in my household, and making my (our) own meals, like I always do. Due to the very real possibility of being 14 day in a quarantine, this includes bare minimum of 14 days of stock of ingredients for proper meals; realistically, a bit more than 14 days is a good margin. Call that panicking if you want; I call that the polar opposite of panicking.The shortages we see right now are not "panicking", but people actuallyrealizingthis in one go - too many realizes it at the same time. The realization and the action isn't incorrect at all - just too concentrated. This does no big harm - the shelves will be filled again, it's just a nuisance. But it would be so much easier if a larger percentage of people acted earlier, spreading the stocking of their 2-4 week pile (which is good to haveanyway) over a month or so; now it happens during a fewdays.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:51:04 pm
content: My wife and I just got back from doing our regular shopping, and it's quite interesting to see what is and isn't available.There were shortages on:- dried pasta, though one brand had just been restocked, so we could have bought whatever type we wanted, if we'd needed any)- toilet paper (as with pasta, available but limited quantity and choice of brand)- over-the-counter painkillers (no stock at all)- tinned tomatoesSome meat and vegetables were low too, but no more so than would be usual late in the evening.It's scary to see just how easily some specific items can suddenly disappear from the shelves, but for now, we're not missing out on anything essential. We may end up eating more rice and potatoes for the next few weeks.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 08:58:38 pm
content: The painkillers is an odd one too, I don't think I've ever taken a painkiller when I've had the flu, except for the stuff that is already mixed with a decongestant.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 09:19:51 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 13, 2020, 08:58:38 pmParacetamol works fantastic to reduce fever and feel much better. As a painkiller drinking water is just as effective as taking Paracetamol.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 10:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 13, 2020, 08:58:38 pmAn ipbuprofen shortage has pre-existed ncovid-19 - there has been a worldwide shortage of the key ingredient for a few months now. You can easiy buy the very expensive branded products, but the cheap generic stuff has flown off the shelfs as soon as it came into stock.The paracetamol shortage has arisen since India declared it was restriciting exports on 4th of March:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/04/india-limits-medicine-exports-coronavirus-paracetamol-antibioticsQuoteNo doubt that anouncement stimulated panic buying. I even bought a couple of packets myself.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 11:58:03 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on March 13, 2020, 08:49:43 pmIf you will be for 14 days in quarantine, you will still be allowed to go out to get food, period. The same as going to a doctor or a pharmacy.Ideally you shouldn't and you should get someone to bring it to you but even in countries like Slovakia and Italy that have actually implemented country-wide quarantines now and have police in the streets people are still allowed to get food. Quarantines are meant to prevent you from spreading germs, not to make you go hungry for two weeks.Also, it is very likely that those country-wide quarantines will be much longer than the two week precautionary isolation. Then what? Are you going to stock up for a month, two, three? Because that is what we are realistically facing - the shutdown will last at least a month, possibly longer, before the epidemics gets anywhere near to starting to crest.So yes, you are panicking.That doesn't mean that you shouldn't have some basic supplies to last a few days at least because if you get the virus, you will likely be out of commission for a few days with fever. However, even from the basic healthcare point of view it is better to eat fresh food like vegetables and fruit to boost your immune system than dried pasta and canned foods. And those you certainly can't stock up for two or more weeks on.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:23:00 am
content: Quote from: splin on March 13, 2020, 10:07:37 pmBe wary not to overwipe your ass till calluses appear.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:31:30 am
content: It looks like we are heading to early spring this year. Growing supplies on your own backyard is another option for mitigating grocery shortages. In Soviet Union they used to rely on burdock leaves before importing their first toilet paper manufacturing line from UK in 1969.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:42:32 am
content: It is in any case better to wash your rear than smearing it with a piece of paper...Time to invest in a bidet?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:47:51 am
content: Quote from: vad on March 14, 2020, 12:31:30 amI can assure you they are not comfy. Used a few times in the wilds. IMHO sandpaper would be about as good.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:50:31 am
content: https://survivalschool.us/top-10-things-wipe-ass-woods/Quote

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 12:55:04 am
content: I'm in LA and my costco doesn't look like that. Luckily. Just bought some protein drinks and bars.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 01:06:01 am
content: Thanks god, we don’t have problem of people brawling over TP. This is TP section in my nearest store yesterday.

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 01:09:27 am
content: LOL at the video i man bought crona beer LOL maybe thats the cure

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 01:52:54 am
content: Quote from: splin on March 13, 2020, 10:07:37 pmI bought a package of two big bottles at Costco about a month ago when I ran out, I think it was only $8. It's way more than I need but a small bottle at a regular store costs about the same amount. I'd be happy to give some away but I don't think there's any trouble getting around here, at least there wasn't prior to the craze.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 01:57:36 am
content: What is special with brawl videos, it is like that every year on Black Friday.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 02:09:21 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 14, 2020, 12:23:00 amWhy would anyone do that? Surely any self respecting gadget aficionado owns one of these:http://viz.co.uk/2014/09/24/clag-gone/ For the humour challenged amongst you please don't rush to send off your £299.99 cheques as I understand that due to coronavirus related supply line problems and unprecedented demand, they are likely to be out of stock for the forseeable future...

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 03:42:17 am
content: Roto Wipe? About as clear an example of plagiarism imaginable - 'Clag-Gone' dates back to the early 1980's.Hope they have good lawyers and deep pockets as they will inevitably be required to face up to the mighty 'Viz Corp' establishment. Let God have mercy on their gag-stealing souls....

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 04:12:27 am
content: Quote from: Homer J Simpson on March 14, 2020, 03:19:03 amdish washer safealso car waster sprayer your assyou be spraying the shit right back out

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:48:19 am
content: https://twitter.com/i/status/1238638054056890377https://mobile.twitter.com/TSCarpetClean/status/1238762536339738624/photo/1

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 08:44:08 am
content: Quote from: janoc on March 13, 2020, 11:58:03 pmExactly what I expected to hear: the panic about panic.Please go on with your panic: I continue my panicless life. It's easy, because I'm not very social anyway, don't like to attend public events or live "service-based" life, and am very accustomed to having food in my household even under completely normal conditions. (This is likely due to spending 2 months every year in total isolation, washing gold, 10km walk, 2-hour motorboat trip + 1-hour drive away from the nearest store, every summer since 1 year-old; the food/supply arrangements arenormalfor me.)So there is little change. I have a slighly larger stockpile than usual (stocked well before the epidemic phase), which makes my lifeeasierso that I don'tneedto think about the mechanisms you spend time describing and relying on. They still exist for me the same, if needed; but me not requiring them immediately benefits both my ease-of-life and the burden to the system.You are right that if the shit really hits the fan, then we are finally on the same line because no stockpile is infinite. I'm not too interested about that remote possibility; you are free to panic about it as you wish.I prefer a local L1 cache so that the already congested bus isn't filled up with my small requests when there is no real need for them.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 02:49:29 pm
content: I am going to panic and order a bunch of vitamin C, lecithin and zinc ... just in case the medical system does get overloaded. A hail Mary gamble on megadosing (liposomal) vitamin C is better than losing another parent to pneumonia without even trying something I perceive as having a good risk/benefit ratio.PS. anyone know of a good liposomal loading protocol from literature doable at home which was actually verified to work?

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 03:18:21 pm
content: Some gourmet recipes (in german) for the crisis:https://www.der-postillon.com/2020/03/corona-quarantaene.htmlInternational visitors: Use translation service or look at the pictures.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 03:37:11 pm
content: The reason for the high toilet paper demand, is when one person sneezes, ten people crap their pants.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 04:53:00 pm
content: Quote from: pcmad on March 14, 2020, 04:12:27 amApart from being probably very odd to use (and probably uncomfortable), and yes, spraying small pieces of feces all over the place, this thing is a bacteria trap that would become a threat in no time unless you disinfect it daily or more (and you probably won't like to do that.) Yuck!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 05:09:26 pm
content: Looks like Homer got some of you with that meme.Gotta love the 9v x16 power source

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 06:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 14, 2020, 04:53:00 pmI mean, that's got to be a joke product right? I don't think it's something you can actually buy.Reminds me a bit of this.https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Mr._Hankey_Construction_Set

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 06:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 14, 2020, 06:05:53 pmYes it is (yes to both, but it's just a box):https://www.amazon.com/Prank-Pack-Roto-Wipe-Prank/dp/B07586Y1T9

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:06:03 pm
content: RotoWipe spare parts made of brass, 3 sizes, up to 10000 rpm!

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 13, 2020, 05:46:55 pmI agree with you (may be because I spent a few years in SE Asia when I was young).I just can't understand this ridiculous obsession for toilette paper. Unless they are used to eat it...Now here, in Italy, as recommended by WHO, we have Wuhan-like restrictions although there are always a few assholes who do not respect such rules planned for the common good.But we started too late and I expect we will get many more positive cases and deaths than China.Spain is following the same trail, unfortunately they had to do that and probably other European countries will be compelled to follow.I just wonder what will do Mr Bor-ass-hole Johnson when UK will get where we are now. And they'll get there soon.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 13, 2020, 07:29:07 pmcome on... you invented the bidet... you should be able to manage a lack of TP

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:41:03 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 13, 2020, 09:19:51 pmacetaminophen is toxic, acetylsalicylic acid is much better as it is also a NSAIDneither of those though is of much use against COVID-19high temperature (fever) is essential to kill the virusin any case there are at least a couple of medicines that seem to work (an antiviral and an anti-inflammatory)

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 07:51:26 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on March 13, 2020, 11:58:03 pmHere we have self-quarantine for symptom-less people positive to covid-19 test. Those can't get out of home unless they need to be hospitalized or until they get rid of the virus (test confirmed). They risk up to 12 years of jail if they get out and expose other people to contagion.Other people can get out to work, buy foods, medicines, products needed for agriculture, computers and phone to work and study at home.

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2020, 11:20:17 pm
content: this is why there is a shortage on tpand the pople who dont under stand this they can ony ship 1 pack per truck load

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 08:42:11 am
content: Quote from: pcmad on March 13, 2020, 06:26:14 pmWell with the state of the GBP yea, maybe just fill our wallets with loo paper.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 09:02:45 am
content: Quote from: imo on March 14, 2020, 07:06:03 pmWhat a PITA.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 09:08:59 am
content: Quote from: imo on March 14, 2020, 07:06:03 pmGreat for those really stubborn stains!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 03:49:07 pm
content: ->Germany tries to stop U.S. from luring away firm seeking coronavirus vaccine

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:01:19 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 15, 2020, 03:49:07 pmWho needs a vaccine, just drink a different beer,what part of that is still not clear?Instead of blowing cash on loo rolls, get into some Lou Rawls insteadand chill out"You'll Never Find.. another Dunny Roll Pack Like Mine..you'll keep searching and searching your whole life through..you gonna miss it, you gonna miss it, you're gonne miss it..whoa whoa.. you're so so SOL baybeee.."Giggles aside, Mr. Rawls = The King of Smooth

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 12:02:05 am
content: good old big cliveall you need to do it is to goto a big house party (probley uni where theres lot of beerand evey ones pissed) and do the swap a roo and see how the night progresses :DD

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 12:21:06 am
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on March 14, 2020, 07:51:26 pmThey should praise the God for such short time inconvenience. Typhoid Mary (google her up, it is a fascinnating story happened 100 years back) spent in a forced quarantine ALMOST 30 YEARS ! She was an asymptomatic carrier of typhoid bacteria and was in a perfect health while killing people around her.Curiously, she died from pneumonia.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 03:38:49 am
content: How do we know the drunk town blokes weren'tbangingassociating with Typhoid Mary, or Typhoon Marianneup the street in the Red Light Zone, and bringing home issues?What low tech medical testing 100 years ago actually verified and confirmed her a carrier?or was the area poisoned from something else, or locals living in pre-post war poverty filth, and picked out Mary Mallon as an easy skapegoat?"Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 – November 11, 1938), also known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish cookbelievedto have infected 51 people,threeof whom died, with typhoid fever,and the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the disease. Because she persisted in working as a cook, by which she exposed others to the disease,she was twice forcibly isolated by authorities, and died after a total of nearly three decades in isolation"Half baked BS and sensationalist reporting was plentiful 100 years ago, as it still is today.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:57:15 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 15, 2020, 03:49:07 pmthe next step of mr Trump will be to get control of all the toilet paper manufacturer of the world

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 06:00:11 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 21, 2020, 03:38:49 amI can see you did not bother reading the article. Look for which families she worked for, Mr. SmartAss.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 09:56:16 am
content: Quote from: Bud on March 21, 2020, 06:00:11 amBefore you begin popping insults, Where is YOUR googled link to the particular 'article' that's convinced you that the lady was a carrier?FYI 100 years ago most people were idiots and believed ANYTHING reported to them. The F wits even went to war to shoot projectiles at people they never met much less knew their language to figure both good and evil sides got rolled.Still happening as we type, but the advanced idiots today, with limitless verification resources, still believe in aliens, UFOs, communication with dead people, flat vs round earth, life on Mars etc etcand hoarding dunny paper at the first hint of a suss flu or mutating Bali BellyQuote from: Bud on March 20, 2020, 12:21:06 amMORE contadicting Wiki wanking:"Mallon spent the rest of her life in quarantine at the Riverside Hospital. Six years before her death, she was paralyzed by a stroke. On November 11, 1938, she died of pneumonia at age 69.A post-mortem found evidence of live typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder.Other researchers have cited George Soper who wrote,"There was no autopsy"to assert a conspiracy to calm public opinion after her death. Mallon's body was cremated, and her ashes were buried at Saint Raymond's Cemetery in the Bronx.i.e. You can't believe 'stories' reported/scripted up 100 years ago, that conflict and change like Melbourne weatherand who knows what kind of poisoning skullduggery was going on back then amongst those 'families' in suss New York of all placesDue to too much conflicting BS, I believe Mary got an undeserved bad rap for something smelly that was going on

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 21, 2020, 03:38:49 amMaybe you should learn how to read and do some research before you come here spouting off like a petulant 6 year old. Typhoid Mary is a well researched and well documented case. Her case has been covered in hundreds if not thousands of medical journals and research articles and not just Wikipedia.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 21, 2020, 09:56:16 amAnd... you just proved that some people today still behave that way.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:49:53 pm
content: I don't think people 100 years ago were any more gullible than people today, I mean you don't have to look beyond the fake stories and rumors that spread through social media to see that.In general I think the news was higher quality back then too. Sensationalism was a problem then as it is now but there wasn't the 24 hour news channels needing filler content.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 12:10:51 am
content: and again for those that missed or skipped:"Mallon spent the rest of her life in quarantine at the Riverside Hospital. Six years before her death, she was paralyzed by a stroke. On November 11, 1938, she died of pneumonia at age 69.A post-mortem found evidence of live typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder.Other researchers have cited George Soper who wrote,"There was no autopsy"to assert a conspiracy to calm public opinion after her death.If we can believe 2020 sources, the reporters and researchers back then (FOS) did not concur = BS Radar Alert!I hope Mary's spirit can now truly RIP

author: pcmad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2020, 02:11:19 am
content: the new bog roll to reduce panic buying bog roll

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 02:52:43 pm
content: To actually mention the 'cure' word here, there is a NEW discussion on Aussie TV today, about the old Vaccine for 'Tuberculosis'. We don't have a need for it generally here in Australia any more, but they say that this vaccine ALSO GREATLY increases your general "Immune System". As such, it is believed that although it won't 'cure' you, it may greatly help your body to adapt/fight this Coronavirus ??Hopefully, anything that may help is worth looking in to...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 03:37:56 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 27, 2020, 02:52:43 pmYep. But experience also shows us how cautious we should be communicating about it (which is shame though, so much for transparency!)It's like as soon as some medical team gives a slight hope with a potential drug that *may* help, some people will start buying that illegally and self-medicate. Maybe we should just let them though, as this is so stupid anyway that they may as well face the consequences with side-effects and possible overdose.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 04:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 27, 2020, 03:37:56 pmConsider them as testing volunteers?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 04:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 27, 2020, 04:12:52 pmAs none of it is monitored (except we just know if they die) and we aren't even sure what they got illegally was the real substance, I don't think we can't get anything valid out of this except natural selection.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 10:29:46 am
content: I lived with the Malaysian Army in Bosnia for a time.They had a perfectly good system...It involved no toilet paper....They didnt have or want any...they just took a big bucket full of water into the toilet with them...and then used their hand...dipping in and out of the water.I used to use the pages of a paperback book...and put it in a plastic bag and throw it away afterwards as it would block the toilet.Bring back National health toilet paper!!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 03:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: treez on March 28, 2020, 10:29:46 amI'm curious about how they cleaned their hands after their wipe up job? That would be a good way to spread Covid19 these days. Early studies have shown that it remains active in fecal matter for up to 16 days after the subject has been clinically tested as recovered. And that's not even allowing for people that are asymptomatic.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 03:24:55 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 27, 2020, 03:37:56 pmIf someone here was 'selling' something, then maybe...... The 'idea/ideal' here as far as I'm concerned is that as this is a World Wide problem, then NOTHING should be off the table of discussion! We are beyond 'panic media', and should be globally sharing all knowledge. Yes, individuals can/do panic, but the World knows there is no panacea yet, but requires a Global share of knowledge as of today. We can't 'pander' to the limited educationally or worry about being 'offensive', when just being informative.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 03:40:09 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 29, 2020, 03:24:55 pmOh, I personally agree. But I could see that not everyone does, we had a couple examples lately.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 06:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 28, 2020, 03:50:39 pmusing soap and water. if the smell doesnt go and its bothering you, rub your hand on rough surface like land soil or wall etc. if its contagious we should already find another better way much earlier. but thats how we are taught and used to from child hood. water is proven cleanser found everywhere. i do agree using both toilet paper and water will give best result, toilet paper used to take out large amount of those dirty stuff off and to avoid smelly fingers, and then use water for another hygienic step (the most effective down to microroganism level) and clean your hand with soap and water afterward. the best soap to get rid smell are the one usually based on some soil or clay, but they are not easily available and more expensive than normal consumer soap. soil/clay/land is another ingredient for stubborn dirts/smells. fwiw. edit: another thing i forgot... clean your shit with your left hand and eat or shake hand with your right hand...

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 12:58:22 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 29, 2020, 06:49:37 pmWhy not wash the rear end with soap and water, if you are going to use water? - it seems the best and most hygienic solution overall...

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 01:00:12 pm
content: Where would we be without Zinc?Which actually is more on point than just about every other post in this thread. Doesn't *anyone* read widely?Those who do, will get the Zinc reference. Also this:That's a prescription my GP issued me on Monday 31st Mar.The intention was to stick them in the fridge, for emergency use IFF I do happen to catch it, develop symptoms serious enough to need a hospital, but by then hospitals are overwhelmed. I'm unlucky enough to have an impaired immune system (due to genetic haemochromatosis), plus not one but two _other_ underlying medical problems, neither of which would go well with COVID.Anyone who has been paying serious attention will recognize that actual, proven COVID cure combination. Plus zinc supplements, but no need for that on the prescription since that's commonly available, and I already have them and have been taking them for years. Along with ascorbic acid, D3 and a metabolic alkalinizer (look up the primary ingredient of Ural, and figure out the supermarket name for bulk packs of that.)But, fat lot of good the prescription will do me. Turns out I should have done that early last week, since this week there is no hydroxychloroquine to be had anywhere. Every chemist is completely out. Also the chemists exhibit a wide spectrum of knowledge through to total ignorance about why it's suddenly popular. Probably related to the ratio of their reliance on the net vs MSM/gov for information.See also attached PDF for background.I was surprised to find my GP has a quite accurate understanding of the political agendas in play atm. Particularly that he's aware big pharma doesn't want a 50 cent, unpatentable cure, they want to make billions from an eventual vaccine, after everyone in the world has been sufficiently terrorized. If in fact they want a cure at all, or would prefer a world population below one billion.FWIW, my GP hasn't yet seen even a single case of COVID, despite working in a very busy medical center.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 01:38:41 pm
content: Your GP, if he exists, is as much a cowboy as you are.And the letter, thanking someone with no medical authority for something they haven't done and using you as a reference, is a joke..I still can't decide if you're a troll or really believe what you spout.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 01:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 30, 2020, 12:58:22 amyes we use soap and water to clean the rear end, and then soap and water on the hand cleaning it. in more difficult situation like army in jungle or on the trip where soap isnt available, we'll only use water both on rear end and the hand. in even more difficult situation where water is not available, then we will find harder things like tissue, dead leave or stone.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 02:10:08 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 31, 2020, 01:50:12 pmEvery home should have a bidet. Smearing it around with a piece of paper is convenient, but not really clean...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 04:22:16 pm
content: I always moisten the toilet paper a little, if I can, before wiping, otherwise it's not very effective.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 11:00:58 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 31, 2020, 01:38:41 pmHi thereMonkeh. Apart from the 'Global' effort to obviously work on a Vaccine, Australia has also been in the forefront for the last few weeks, working on what 'seems' to actually KILL the virus in your body, after contracting it. This is a 2 pronged attack, which has been/being vastly researched as quick as they can, over the last week or two.The Drug thatTerraHertzwas talking about, (Hydroxychloroquine), is ONE of the drugs being tested here, along with one of the 'old' drugs that used to be used for the treatment of AIDS. This also 'old' drug, Hydroxychloroquinine, is an old treatment/cure forMalaria!! (Notice the last part of the product name... 'Quinine'). Can also be obtained in many drink additives to make it 'bitter'. (Also stops muscle cramps!).I do not think he was trying to talk rubbish, or act like a 'troll'However, we all need to know about & share current knowledge.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:29:52 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 02, 2020, 11:00:58 amGlenn, thanks but you're wasting your time there. I think the key phrase is 'troll' (malicious motive.) Or perhaps shill (someone with a deceptive, possibly wage-related motive) or just plain comprehension impaired.But since we're here...Quote from: Monkeh on March 31, 2020, 01:38:41 pmLead with a personal insult, always a good sign of honest intent. If my GP doesn't exist, that's a great photoshop of a prescription, don't you think? Cropped to protect identities. Yes, his typing really is that bad. Pretty funny. I like the guy btw, so feel doubly insulted.QuoteONE inconsequential line in a two page letter, and it's the only thing you single out? Plus you're wrong, he specifically did push for testing of hydroxychloroquine, as President, backed by the medical authority of his advisers. And then who tried to block that? Three Dem state governors, "with no medical authority" and no legal authority either, since the FDA/CDC had authorized it.Meanwhile you ignore the entire rest of the letter, relating a quite large scale ad-hoc demonstration of the stated drug combination's effectiveness. Why? It's just one of several such btw, but I saw no reason to list them all. Though you can find them among the references I provided.QuoteThis is where we cross into mental retardation territory. Did you seriously not comprehend that the links on page 2 of the PDF, under the ruler and in different font, are added by me? I didn't explicitly state that, since it didn't occur to me that anyone would be so dense as to not see that as obvious. Quite apart from all the linked materials having dates subsequent to the letter.Anyway, the first link is to an article reviewing the chemistry and history of quinine derivatives and their use. By an Australian academic chemist. It's quite interesting. But that's OK, no need to thank me for mentioning it.That and the others are my footnotes of relevant sources, for only those with inquiring minds, discernment, and initiative to download the PDF.QuoteSorry, I'd have to get off my trusty silver steed and coil up my lariat to explain especially for you. But I doubt the effort would be productive. Bye.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 02:15:28 am
content: I apologise for missing that you added that to the letter. Taken in that light, slightly less of a joke - Trump is still a loudmouth (a fatally loud one, it turns out) with no medical authority, though.As for the rest... your GP's still a cowboy, you're still a conspiracy nut, and there is no cure at this time (if ever). There's potential treatment, to be administered to severe cases, under observation, and still undergoing trials.

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 08:10:58 pm
content: After being Frustrated to no end with all the Comments and Videos on Facebook 'linking' 5G to the CoronaVirus, and that the Vaccines that they are working on, will include a Tracking Microchip, I decided to do a quick video of my own. Trying my best to Dispel some of the Mistruths, and just trying to inform people.You can check it out below. And also, remember to Like and Subscribe...http://youtube.com/watch?v=NAHe7uFZ6qM

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 12:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: kolbep on April 03, 2020, 08:10:58 pmIn the old days, people believed in witchcraft... in the 50's and 60's, people ended up in mental hospitals thinking they were being controlled by radar, or laser, or any of the technologies that were new at the time. Today, "the unknowing" worry about cell phone radiation, vaccinations, and any number of other things that they do not have the training or knowledge to understand. Because they can't trust "experts" (largely due to the Dunning-Kruger effect [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect] one suspects), they end up going with their own superstitions instead. Sadly, there are so many messed up people like that. Enough to get leaders of modern countries elected by them...

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 01:48:43 pm
content: I just watched a TV show that included interviews with some flat-earthers. They're just f'ing unbelievably crazy. Forget trying to reason with this type people.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 02:48:48 am
content: I suspect it's the same part of the brain that is involved in religion, clearly it is more active in some people than others and some of those latch onto something other than one of the prevailing conventional religions. It's futile to argue logic with them because their belief is not based on logic to begin with.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 06:10:17 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on April 04, 2020, 12:47:32 pmThe Dunning-Kruger effect implies that people who have some knowledge about a given matter feel expert in any other subject even when they lack the most basic knowledge. On the other side, people who do not feel knowledgeable are often more expert than they believe (probably because they do not trust their gut feeling and investigate and try to learn from reliable sources).Belief in conspiracy theories is much more complicate than that. Probably the need to make sense of the unknown or to attribute an agent-driven cause to casual events is part of the problem. Poor economical situation (middle class wiped out by free-market frenzy in the last decades) with the feeling of impotence and lack of control on one's own life also contribute to that.Last but not the least nowadays there are organizations, think tanks, state-backed trolls, who exploit such social weakness for various reasons, often mixing various paranoid subjects like no-vax, chem-trails, climate denial, etc. just to fuel mistrust in science.While that sounds like a conspiracy theory itselfit is based on trial evidences and/or government reports.I'm referring to various Union of Concerned Scientists documents and on EU pages about Russian (and other) trolls spreading fake news and fueling controversies.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 06:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on April 05, 2020, 06:10:17 pmBasically, Dunning-Kruger means that idiots tend to be LOUD idiots! The incompetent overestimate their abilities, and the competent underestimate theirs.The Wikipedia article has become more mealy mouthed over time.Fromhttps://www.verywellmind.com/an-overview-of-the-dunning-kruger-effect-4160740-QuoteAgree with your other good points.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 06:52:38 pm
content: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201801/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theorieshttps://physicsworld.com/a/why-do-people-still-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories/...and, of course, a video...she is/was a grad student so I am cutting her slack for the ultra-simplistic communications, plus, I went to her site and she bills herself as a neuroscientist / comedian [and also she is nice to look at].https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z98U1nMFrJQ&feature=youtu.be

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 07:10:02 pm
content: I've noticed this now and then in myself, the more I learn about a topic the more aware I become of just how much more there is to know so the less knowledgeable I feel. Every now and then it sneaks up on me and I realize with some surprise that I really am an expert on one thing or another, though it's usually something obscure with little practical value.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 11:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 05, 2020, 07:10:02 pmYes, the more you know, the more you realize you don't know. Science is not infinitely certain. Men of science aren't either... but fools too often are.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 12:56:02 pm
content: Learning is like an S curve. First you learn slowly, because you don't yet know how to learn; but you also don't know what's ahead. When you are getting closer to the highest rate of change, absorbing a lot of new information efficiently, you are shocked to see how much you don't know, because you see the increasing rate and have no idea when it will slow down.Once your learning starts slowing back down because you already know so much and have absorbed all the critical stuff properly, it gets much easier, and you start feeling confident. Until you find something new to learn, starting the process again.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 01:40:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 13, 2020, 03:49:18 pmIf you eat enough eggs you will become egg bound and wont need any toilet paper.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 01:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: nigelwright7557 on April 06, 2020, 01:40:51 pmAhhh yes, a form of self-constipating to go along with self-quarantining, self-isolating and gastro-intestinal distancing.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 02:20:46 pm
content: I would guess the manufacturing/distribution of toilet rolls is not geared for rapid changes in demand...

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 02:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: kolbep on April 03, 2020, 08:10:58 pmSorry to say but thats a dead end, the bankster cabal already divided people up and as soon one side get to know aboutmilitary Active Denial System (ADS) 95GHZ all your arguments will be down the toilet no matter the facts you present.Not even the argument the Sun blasts various wave lengths (some that heats you up) will do.However what you could do is to research into why all those crocked doctors suddenly pops up everywhere and that weall been frauded again by the banksters just like what hapend in 2007-8!

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 02:49:30 pm
content: Quote from: not1xor1 on April 05, 2020, 06:10:17 pmDunning-Kruger effect implies is that of a group of know-it-all's with a ADHD circular arguments on a forum called EVBLOGG labeling everybody else inside and outside that forum as idiots, loud idiots, and morons, fools, quacks , con artists, conspiracy theorists etc.So what Dunning-Kruger really are is its a rhetorical trap that anyone who mentions it have fallen into there fore i wont mention it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 06:50:23 pm
content: Quote from: MT on April 06, 2020, 02:35:28 pm

author: gorge441
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 03:18:08 pm
content: I am really sorry to say, i have no idea where it comes from or who made it. China blamed the US and the US blames China. Somebody said it comes from bats, somebody said from worms, etc. I am really confused. Though, 5G can't be avoided. Because the radiation that comes out of it is really harmful to animal life.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 03:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 11, 2020, 03:22:54 pmAn elderly gentleman once told me that around the time her house was wired for electricity for the first time, his mother used to put plastic plugs in all the unused wall outlets, "to prevent electricity escaping and harming her family". New technology --> new fears.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 06:50:11 pm
content: Much of the problem is that most people don't understand that "radiation" means something that radiates, whether that is light or radio waves or alpha, beta, or gamma radiation, etc. They don't comprehend the difference between say visible light and gamma radiation. Both are "radiation", both are photons even, but only one of them will kill you with radiation sickness.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:02:25 am
content: Yay, the internal UV and disinfectant cure... or how to make your medical expert lookreallyuncomfortable on camera!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177Just in case anyone gets any ideas, let's not try this one at home folks!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 11:56:12 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 08:02:25 amJust when you think Trump can't possibly come up with even more idiotic ideas

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 12:04:00 pm
content: I guess the betting begins on when or where the 1st casuality will pop out, based on president's suggested "method".

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 12:04:35 pm
content: Accoding to the text, his much vaunted Hydroxychloroquine drug actuallyincreasedthe death rate in a study on military veterans in a US government run hospital too. I wonder if they got a choice?How does the Monopoly card go? 'Read what's on the paper in front of you, do not deviate from what's written on the paper in front of you, do not pass go, do not collect $200'.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 06:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 24, 2020, 02:53:30 pmConventionally, in the US, drugs are approved for a particular purpose. That approval is based not only on studies demonstrating safety, but studies demonstrating efficacy for the condition.Once a drug has been approved for use, Doctors can and do prescribe the drug to patients with a different condition than the one the drug has been approved for.Usually, this is called “open label” or “off label” use. In my view, in the great majority of cases, this is done responsibly.In relatively few instances, there is something generally called “compassionate use” in which a treatment that has not shown specific efficacy is used with full consent and as something of a last resort.Because we don’t go around giving people Covid-19 or placebo in a random drug trial, you are going to deal with some harsh realities. In these cases, we will only have the observational data to report – but that is still much better than no data.Chloroquine drugs are known to carry significant risk and MDs know this, so, yes, they are not going to prescribe the drug for “the heck of it”.The problem (in this case) with the “Orange Plague” is that he should not be talking about treatments at all because he is obviously clueless and embarrassing so. I actually feel pity for the legitimate SMEs who sit back there and must be ulcerating on a daily basis.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 24, 2020, 02:53:30 pmThis is also just one study of many and as I understand they ran it with two groups. One that got less than the recommended dosage and one that got OVER the recommended. The over the recommended group is the group that was harmed. As far as I know people all of a sudden pointed this study out because most studies were positive but people hate trump so really LIKED this study. The jury is still out though. Until we have many studies conducted properly we can't say what the verdict will be. All over the world people are trying to find something to combat this long and short term and I think the over reacting to every single piece of news is pretty dumb.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 08:02:25 amIf you actually care about what's going on here, which I suspect you don't, I'd recommend you watch the press briefings on the official wh.gov youtube channel. They're not edited, nobody is adding their opinion, and they aren't removing context. This way you can make up your own mind and at the very least you do know exactly what happened and what was said as you read the news.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:31:13 pm
content: I did watch it. Live! With full context!Did you?Edit: ... but today he says he was being sarcastic, so that's ok then!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 24, 2020, 02:53:30 pmI do agree with this. We're not talking about self-medication or gurus prescribing drugs here, but MDs doing their job. They know the drugs, their possible side-effects, and will use them to the best of their knowledge if they think this will give the patient more chance than without.This whole debate is ridiculous - hydroxychloroquine has been tested and suggested as a possible last resort thing by a few specialists, it's not just a lunatic thing. I know Trump bashing is a sport, but he didn't mention it randomly - it was suggested by specialists. Of course he should have refrained his enthusiasm, but that doesn't automatically make the thing stupid and useless. Yes he should probably just shut up, but that doesn't change anything. Just because he said something doesn't mean MDs will suddenly follow his random talks blindly. To sum it up: except maybe for a few lunatics that will try to self-medicate while obtaining the drug without prescripton, I don't think it has any consequence.No one ever said that was the ultimate solution, nor without risk. It's still up to each doctor to decide what to do. Some (still preliminary) studies seem to suggest a benefit, some none, and some a negative outcome. All of them are still extremely preliminary and could not, in a normal situation, pass as valid for deciding to put some drug on the market. We still don't even completely understand what this virus does and how. The only thing behind it is that we know hydroxychloroquine has proven efficiency helping to fight a number of infectious diseases - and even in those proven cases, we don't completely understand why. Medicine is not engineering.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 07:31:13 pmI watch them live every day. Then I read news articles full of errors and I'm confused if they saw the same thing I saw. I also don't understand why asking questions is a problem for you? For the disinfectants he clearly said for cleaning things, like objects, and for the light it's not as out there as you think.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on April 24, 2020, 07:46:13 pm...QuoteIf by 'things' you mean 'lungs'..

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:56:05 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on April 24, 2020, 07:46:13 pmSure, UV is long known for it's antiseptic properties and for therapeutic uses, treatment of Vitamin D deficiency before oral Vitamin D avaliability, light therapy for babies with high levels of bilirubin etc. but suggesting using UVinternally?I do care by the way. There are far too many gullible people out there (not just in the US) who will believe, and try to act on these sort of 'suggestions' sarcastic or otherwise.P.S. If that wasn't the case, Reckitt Benckiser wouldn't have felt the need to warn against internal use of their Disinfectant products today.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:57:29 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 24, 2020, 07:54:37 pmNo, and he clarified that later in the same briefing when a reporter asked.Quote from: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 07:56:05 pmWhether it has any benefits or not there has been research into UV probes. Since I don't know that there is any conclusive evidence I won't say it works or not. He seems pretty desperate to find something that works right now. He's a christian and they're very hopeful and typically don't like to see people suffer. The only people who appear to have acted on what you call suggestions, andhe hasn't suggested anybody try to treat themselves yet, are the democrat donors who took fish cleaner. The guy who died(from the cleaning tablets that contained some form of chloroquine) was an engineer who was just doing what his wife said not trump.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:01:16 pm
content: No what? No, that's not what he said? But.. it is.His mouth seems to be directly attached to his brain. What comes out of his brain is.. not reassuring.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:12:35 pm
content: He was asking about injections of who knows what, there were like 3 people talking and trump was talking to someone off camera, and later when a reporter asked about injecting disinfectants he said no we'd be using that for cleaning objects. Presumably meaning, floors, tables, doorknobs, of course the people who don't like trump assume... lungs. I'd have to go back and re-watch or check the transcripts, I don't have perfect recall... Not by far. I'm not a trump apologist but at some point I feel like things need to be clarified so people don't go crazy.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on April 24, 2020, 08:12:35 pmLet me just extend that quote then..Quotehttps://youtu.be/PsQnfpfIa_o?t=1610Disinfectant, in context, meaning bleach or isopropyl alcohol, the two things they'd discussed having tested as surface cleaners. He simply decided to latch on to the idea of using these to clean the insides of people..

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:28:44 pm
content: When he injects people with alcohol let me know.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on April 24, 2020, 07:57:29 pmAnd guess where his wife got the idea??? Over here a company nearby which produces chloroquine needed police protection when Trump stated it could be effective against a Corona virus infection.The whole point is that Trump should refrain from any statement that can be (remotely) interpreted as medical advice because people don't register the nuances (if there are any). The proof is in several of the recent posts.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:04:02 pm
content: Seriously? Anyone taking medical "advice" from a random talk of their president instead of taking it from a medical professional would be dumb. Sorry. You don't go to your president to get a consultation.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:04:44 pm
content: My point with that was his wife wanted a divorce and didn't like him. She didn't have him take it, and she didn't take it, because they believed trump. She had called him the psycho in chief. She likely found what its effects were and decided to have him take a significant amount. For what it's worth hydroxychloroquine appears to be much safer as a therapeutic compared to standard chloroquine. I get it though he can't talk because people might hear it. I'm sure he'll heed that advice.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 24, 2020, 02:53:30 pmHe's apparently not happy about air pollution levels going down so he wants to relax the standards to make them go back up. Really the wrong thing to do when there is clear evidence that air pollution makes COVID-19 worse.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 24, 2020, 09:04:02 pmNo you don't go to your president to get a consultation, but when he spouts this stuff it's much more like him coming to you, and yes, there are an awful lot of dumb people.As nctnico says, the whole point is that Trump should refrain from any statement that can be (remotely) interpreted as medical advice. Even Boris doesn't do that!(I don't know if Bolsinaro does)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:38:43 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 24, 2020, 09:04:02 pmYou know it, I know it, people should know it, if not... then Darwin is having a good day. At some point you can't fix stupid.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:39:08 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 09:34:21 pmI dunno. 1/ You may be overestimating the number of people dumb enough to do that, 2/ as someone else said earlier (don't remember who), you could see this as a form of natural selection, and not worry about it so much.But at this point, I'm sure 1/ applies here, as the number of dumb cases like this is ridiculously low, so frankly this is much ado about nothing.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:45:09 pm
content: Sigh, you're probably right.It should improve his viewing figures for tonight anyway (maybe that's all he wanted all along - any publicity is good publicity?).

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 06:17:09 pm
content: alertThis is priceless! A quack running the company that sells dilute bleach for people to drink as a miracle cure, wrote to the Donald (Moron in Chief).. and now Donald recommends it in his propagana briefing!https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirusIt really is amazing how such a dangerous idiot got to be President.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 06:23:55 pm
content: Well, a good dose of chlorine dioxide can "cure" pretty much any condition for good.

author: not1xor1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 06:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 24, 2020, 08:01:16 pmbrain?... are you sure?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 07:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on April 25, 2020, 06:17:09 pmIt is really amazing how you so smart genius have not got to be President.Who is an idiot here is clear then.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 07:52:28 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on April 25, 2020, 07:50:38 pm.. it's shocking how a British citizen hasn't managed to become the President of the United States of Not Bloody Britain, isn't it?

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 08:15:23 pm
content: What happened to this thread? It has become who has the bigger idiot? C'mon you guys....NOTE: This is a parody, a joke. There is NO chewable Clorox. Do Not ingest anything called Clorox.PLEASE, do not injest any dangerous chemicals.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 09:47:54 pm
content: DT is IRL trolling for 2 years now, those dumbfucks who still take him seriously certainly deserve the Darwin award.Probably the same group of people who send money to Nigerian princes.And I much rather have a trolling DT than warmongering Bush or the Nobel price president that starts a couple of wars, dronebombs civilians and keeps Guantanamo bay running.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 02:11:19 pm
content: The ozone therapy may be a solution for Covid. Injecting ozone via intravenous, it achieves to improve the oxygenation of the blood besides reducing the inflammation and cytokine stormshttps://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.grupopoliclinica.es%2Fexito-del-primer-ensayo-clinico-espanol-con-ozonoterapia-para-pacientes-covid-19-en-grupo-policlinica%2F

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 04:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 02, 2020, 02:25:34 pmYes,it is correct . Here, the hospital press don't explain how they do it.Here it is the video where Dr. Alberto Hernández explains the method(3:08) and the number of patient treated. According Dr.Hernandez , they extract a blood sample from the patient. The sample mix with ozone and it reinjecting via vena.(There are subtitles)https://youtu.be/sqDpIF3thvoVideo of the first patient recovered of the COVID19 with ozone therapy(There are subtitles)https://youtu.be/Vm5tRirLntA

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 05:03:28 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_therapy

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 12:58:56 pm
content: Where I live there has "been a run on" bidets" which spray your butt or genitalia with water and dont require TP.And for weeks we couldnt buy any either. Now we're all set though. We used mail order and I forget the price but it was a lot more. Now the stores have it again. We are only shopping like once a month and buying a LOT of stuff.Quote from: ataradov on March 13, 2020, 04:07:26 pm

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 02:09:59 pm
content: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/epitheliumepithelium [ep″ĭ-the´le-um] (pl. epithe´lia) (Gr.)the cellular covering of internal and external surfaces of the body, including the lining of vessels and other small cavities. It consists of cells joined by small amounts of cementing substances. Epithelium is classified into types on the basis of the number of layers deep and the shape of the superficial cells....In the case of COVID-19 the respiratory epithelium starts leaking, and the lungs fill with a pinkish foamy mixture of dead cells and blood. Making it difficult for people to breathe. Also the nerves carrying impulses from the brain to the lungs stop working sometimes. Because the virus invades the CNS.So the most important things that need to be done are. halt the replication of this virus and protect especially the respiratory system but also the CNS. The virus also takes a few days to be recognized fully by the immune system. Sometimes typically five to ten days after a person is first showing symptoms the immune system mounts a powerful too strong response that is not regulated properly and thats often the beginning of the end for somebody. That is called a cytokine storm.None of this is easy to cope with for medicine. People are dying in large numbers and doctors are human beings and this is a new disease. Its also causing large scale economic problems. Investors invest large amounts of money in physical things, like factories that from their points of view are losing money every minute they sit idle. Blaming others is a total waste of time in this situation compared to time spent looking for and learning how to save peoples lives in any way we can.Simplistic pseudoscience is almost certainly not only not going to be helpful it quite possibly is harmful. COVID-19 causes severe lung damage, and severe organ damage. Even people who survive a serious case of it are likely to still have health problems from it for the rest of their lives.Oxygen is needed to breathe but reactive oxygen species such as produced by ozone is likely to be harmful to their bodies in a bunch of ways. Ozone therapy is totally pseudo science. It has no basis in fact that I know of.It is used to kill bacteria in water . But that doesnt translate to people. What Trump was doing is he was taking the things he heard thatwere different therapies for different disease and trying to figure it out and describe it. There are treatments for non-covid 19 illnesses that involve taking blood out of the body and exposing it to strong light and then putting it back in. The problems with using this in COVID-19 are many, for one COVID-19 is not a blood disease.. the virus infects cells via the ACE2 receptor, and the blood plays no part. So, it wouldnt be at all helpful.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 02:37:10 pm
content: I have this small book "Totalitarian Science" thats about the common aspects of "science" under totalitarianism. It talks about the pseudoscience that was behind some of mankind's biggest disasters of recent times.Basically, politics should not enter into science at all. But it does.All of the players in this disaster have an agenda that embeds the growing corporate control of the world into all solutions which are being put forward.this virus has shown some of the weaknesses of how we develop new knowledge and what it is telling us - we're unable to just go about finding what works and doing it.Instead we're listening to people who have vested financial interests who are obsessed with making lots of money on people in an emergency.Also there is a large class of people who don't pursue facts logically, they have biases that they cling to aggressively which they use to defend their actions. But those biases are unscientific. I know some of these people.Ozone therapy" is classic pseudoscience. Like solar roadways. Its junk science. Ozone is used to kill bacteria in water but in the body reactive oxygen sepecies (like hydrogen peroxide) are not a good thing at all. Brushing with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide, yes. Thats good for your teeth. helps them be whiter. and reduces gum disease. But dont do that if your gums are bleeding, get your teeth fixed first.Hydrogen peroxide is reactive oxygen species.Sometimes ROS provide essential functions. And are useful in signaling.We know that now. But "Ozone" is not going to cure coronavirus in any way. You can bet on it. the people who put it forward are basically failing to fix a serious problem and they feel they have to say something helps.Quote from: vodka on May 02, 2020, 04:25:36 pmNo no no no..Don't do it.On the other hand, there are some ANTI-oxidant substances that may turn out to be useful.I think several common ones are likely to. Not to be a cure, but likely to mitigate some of the severity of it.Vitamin C might help significantly, Zinc also, people should be taking extra zinc and Vitamin C. I am.But dont be an idiot and think that is a cure, it isnt, and having some false sense that it may be is actually dangerous.Lots of things need to have more eyes focused on them.There is one possible candidate that seems not unlikely to be both an antiviral and immunomodulator, plus it addresses a huge number of the things that COVID-19 does - in other diseases.However there is also a nonzero chance, like there is with everything, that it might not be helpful at all. I personally think the chance is much larger that it helps than hurts but my own knowledge is missing the comprehensive knowledge of cytokines and immunology and experience that I would need to posess to be able to know. This substance is active against many viruses and also against many kinds of sepsis and seems to even have activity against acute lung injury and even ARDS, when caused by other pathogens and medical conditions.Even though we are now five months into this pandemic, nobody has investigated it yet in the ways it needs to be investigated in COVID-19, a global pandemic. That raises a red flag for me.If any of you are doctors and working on solutions you should know. Its the best known stilbenoid. You can buy it almost anywhere.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5307780/

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 09:02:46 pm
content: As noted in the Wikipedia article, "In April 2016, the FDA prohibited the medical use of ozone".So, it's not just a weird alternative therapy, it's plain and simple prohibited in the US and probably in many other countries in the world.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 09:05:17 pm
content: Why anyone would think it's a good idea is beyond me. Ozone is nasty stuff, it's toxic, it kills biological organisms, it's highly reactive and corrodes many metals, it attacks some polymers. You DO NOT want to have the stuff in your body.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 10:41:22 pm
content: I would also be careful with ionizers which produce ozone when they go over a certain voltage. Heres what happened when I used a ionizer I thought to clean the air in an apartment that turned out to have very bad mold, it made it much much worse because negatively charged particles are attracted to positively charged (grounded) objects. So these particles stuck to things that were grounded,But the attic was filled with mold. Certain tmes of the day when the air in the attic was flowing downward it would get much worse. (Not that frequently because the air usually flowed up, ) but in this case that mold produced a polysaccharide matrix thats was filled with satratoxin G and H.After experiencing that I would suspect that an ionizer would greatly increase your chances of getting COVID-19 simply from it being in the air. If any of your neighbors had it the use of an ionizer would likely increase your risk. Usually the dust that blows in usually goes back out again, but an ionizer makes it stick to things.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 05:35:22 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 03, 2020, 09:05:17 pmCertain, the water is too toxic? NO, it depends of dosis. It is not the same a water bottle at room than a room full the water.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 05:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 03, 2020, 09:05:17 pmWell, to be fair, a lot of drugs are actually also toxic on some level.One problem with ozone is that's it's VERY unselective. Another of course is that apart from potentially killing cells, we don't really know what the benefits would be.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on May 03, 2020, 02:37:10 pmFirst point, the pseudoscience is the wildcard of the officialism,which they feel powerless or jealous, unable to explain a phenomenon what is against of their beliefs or their dogma. On the Medicine history there are many cases, and we have not to go so far at time.Second point: The experiment was done with 10 patients among them there were semi-critics and critics. Nobody DIED, 10 of 10 recovered. Now, if the doctors have achieved to find a secure dosis for healing .Isn't it valid?Third point: The hypothesis of the hemoglobin (curiously censored in youtube): The theory is that the virus interferes with the hemoglobin molecule avoiding the set up of oxigen , provoking the cytokines storm and the inflamations of the organshttps://youtu.be/qYUD3Dqu8Oc((8:15) and (34:35))https://youtu.be/w-BtnQ3gKTI((10:41))

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 10:42:51 pm
content: I just found this paper yesterday which gave a fairly good explanation of oxygen's roles in viral infections.Oxygen and viruses: a breathing storyhttps://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/jgv/10.1099/vir.0.000172If you are reading scientific journals looking for things that mitigate coronavirus, you have to know what to look for. There are a number of articles out there telling you how to think like a scientist. The reason I put forward RESV are all based in science, which in its case included the fact that a number of different chains of logic all led me there. And interestingly there was little or no overlap, the reasons that emerged in these different all chains of logic were complementary.Its not pseudoscience to suspect that if a substanceinhibits closely related other coronavirusesthat it might also inhibit it too.Especially when it may quite possibly address so many other needs that doctors have. Its hard to ignore a substance when it may helprestore a healthy immune responsethat has been dysregulated.polymicrobial sepsis, coagulopathy , and others.. When it clears the airway and improves the integrity of the respiratory epithelium.The ozone psedoscience goes back many decades, its not new. Its been disproven.But common sense and science keeps telling us to look at RESV. Likethis study on pre-exposure prophylaxisof the virulent pseudorabies virus.Quote from: vodka on May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pm

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 01:35:25 am
content: Quote from: vodka on May 04, 2020, 05:35:22 pmSure but what is a safe dose of ozone? As someone else said, it's very unselective, like UV-C or bleach it destroys biological material that it contacts. Medications are normally made of substances that act selectively in the doses they are used. I certainly will not be deliberately exposing myself to the stuff or putting it into my blood. It's nice for eliminating odors and reducing the amount of bromine I need to sanitize the water in my hot tub though.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 03:44:52 am
content: Encouraging...A human monoclonal antibody blocking SARS-CoV-2 infection.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 04:05:18 am
content: That looks interesting but I must confess, I only understand maybe 25% at best of what is being said at this point, if that. I understand some of the procedures, but most of this particular discipline is still just completely new to me.Quote from: DrG on May 05, 2020, 03:44:52 amGiven a corpus of unstructured text from scientific journal articles, what I need is a natual language processor that can ingest text and spit out a chart of all the proper words, and extract the descibed relationships and what was meant and turn it into tables of what it figured out about them"What could possibly go wrong" !

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 02:13:22 pm
content: Well, at the risk of the blind leading the blind......One of the most exciting approaches to a treatment against a virus is to find antibodies that specifically identify and destroy the virus (as in the case of someone who has recovered from the infection) and then manufacture / purify them and then give them to someone else.Here is some commentary on the role of mAbshttps://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirusThe importance is that the study has identified such an antibody and it works,in vitro.Identification is only the start of the processhttps://www.uptodate.com/contents/overview-of-therapeutic-monoclonal-antibodiesLots of folks are going after this approach, the deployment of could be a critical pre-vaccine step to "solving" this pandemichttps://www.statnews.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-antibody-therapies-will-they-be-ready-in-time/Just an aside - it may be that those 'young' people who recover quickly and without severe symptoms are not even using this line of immune function and that is an interesting area in itself.If you want to look for a "silver lining" in this mess, it is not that the "new normal" will have us living in bubbles, it is that we will advance the science significantly (e.g., the case with HIV).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 02:43:40 pm
content: Because it is such a challenge that on the way to solving it we'll be forced to learn a lot of new stuff. Thats what I have thought too. But they are resisting learning things that might make our approach more cost effective because the investing class REALLY sees healthcare as their entitlement to milk every possible penny out of in their own captive markets.Have you been following the battle over starting a new COVID-19 patent/IP pool? Its quite interesting. To understand the context, somebody needs to understand what happened with HIV drugs, especially the true and incredible story that is laid out in the film "Fire in the Blood" by Dylan Mohan Gray (that name is from memory and may be misspelled, anyway the film is on netflix, etc.Also, the story involves the WTO and its TRIPS agreement as well as the "DOHA Declaration on the Trips Agreement and Public Health"I am too exhausted of this whole thing to do it justice right now.Here are some links, these are not light reading.Arthritic Flexibilities for Accessing Medicines- Analysis of WTO Action Regarding Paragraph 6 of the DOHA Declaration on the Trips Agreement and Public Healthhttps://journals.iupui.edu/index.php/iiclr/article/download/17822/17992/The race to patent the SARS virus: the TRIPS agreement and access to essential medicines (by Matthew Rimmer of QUT, who is very good on IP law issues, his work is quite worth reading, seeking out I mean and reading - this is from 2004)https://eprints.qut.edu.au/86812/1/86812.pdf---------I found this line of thinking while investigating the surprising broadness of resveratrol's antiviral activity.Sirtuins Are Evolutionarily Conserved Viral Restriction Factors (mBio-2014-Koyuncu)https://mbio.asm.org/content/mbio/5/6/e02249-14.full.pdf--------------------The below is unrelated but its one of the most informative of the articles Ive read on the neuroinvasive aspect of the SARS-CoV-2 virus.Yanchao LiORCID iD: 0000-0002-2884-9829The neuroinvasive potential of SARS-CoV2 may be at least partially responsible for the respiratory failure of COVID-19 patientsYan-Chao Li 1 *, Wan-Zhu Bai 2 , Tsutomu Hashikawa 3https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32104915

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 03:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pmIt's true its almost modern Science's "Fake news" cry. But you must remember that it's a broad term that covers everything from quackery/vitalism, to apparent legitimate research that appears to use the scientific method, but falls short to change the outcome of research either by citing poorly designed/executed studies, or straight up fabricating data. If an experiment creates results that cannot currently be explained, until there is a plausible explanation, then that isn't "science" - thats the start of research.Quote from: vodka on May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pmDepends on hat you mean by valid. Ten patients is a tiny sample. And as far as I am aware, the majority of COVID-19 patients make a full recovery. How do you know they wouldn't have recovered anyway if there was no intervention? How were they selected? were they tested but asymptomatic? were they severe cases? Were they all the same age?Something which many seems to skip over is, studies and trials arehard. The scientific methodology is simple, but designing and running trials takes a lot of time, money and effort. You can never control for all confounding factors, or account for natural variation, it's very easy to completely warp results by excluding or including patients with or without certain criteria. I would put money on a trial in with 10 COVID-19 patients, all drank a glass of apple juice, and all recovered, it doesn't prove anything really - except perhaps that apple juice isn't lethal.Quote from: vodka on May 04, 2020, 06:36:26 pmI have no idea if that is true or not. I suspect the reason for the censoring on youtube, because there is a LOT of misinformation that authorities are trying to battle - the fact the POTUS recommended injecting disinfectant is the most known, but seriously, social media and youtube is FULL of dangerous quackery about this virus.The stupid stuff is obvious, but arguably the more dangerous ideas are the ones with an air of legitimacy - like massive doses of vitamins, or "anti oxidants" that have no evidence supporting their use to "boost immune system (which you dont' want to do anyway, because that can cause cytokine storm). When people are scared, they tend to abandon critical thinking and go with whatever they feel is best - and hold onto to preconceived notions, like "low vitamins bad, some good, more = better!".Look at the whole hydroxychloroquine debacle - how many papers have been published about its efficacy recently, and how many actually showed any benefit? None. It's just because it is mentioned in the news, or because there are ongoing studies into it - people assume it must work.I'm not sure why interfering with oxygen uptake would "provoke a cytokine storm", I thought that was just an over-reaction of the immune system when a large number of white cells are involved - that can be triggered by many things. What links the two here? or did you just state that?

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 07:59:11 pm
content: Nobody knows what will happen, but sometimes i think corona may be the cure nature invented to protect this planet from another pandemic. What we call human civilization became a plague.Regards, Dieter

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 08:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on May 05, 2020, 03:05:20 pm10 participants is nothing, it's below the noise floor. You'd need 100 bare minimum to reach any kind of useful results and even then it would really only tell you whether there was reason to expand the next stage to something like 1,000, then 10,000 would start to get interesting.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 09:14:13 pm
content: For those interested in Covid-19 contact tracing apps, this is the UK's offering, link courtesy of the GB National Center for Cyber Security."High level privacy and security design for NHS COVID-19 contact tracing app"https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/nhs-covid-19-app-privacy-security-report

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 12:00:46 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 05, 2020, 08:56:06 pmThat was my point...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 12:23:41 am
content: Looks like George Orwell was really onto something, huh?He was finally getting paid well and then they went and stuck him in the sanatorium, where he could not work. And he had those horrid side effects from that drug, worse than anybody else ever had.Quote from: Syntax Error on May 05, 2020, 09:14:13 pm

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 03:51:27 am
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on May 06, 2020, 12:00:46 amYeah I was agreeing with you and elaborating further on what you said.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 03:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 06, 2020, 03:51:27 amSorry, given some of the crap/misinformation about all this (and science in general) I've read recently, I'm sort of primed to expect it.

author: msuffidy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:46:26 pm
content: The usual way of dealing with virus is isolating them, making a lot of them. Killing them and then injecting some of the ripped up bits into the body for it to start making antibodies against. I hear it has to be tested for side effects and tuned for response, and this takes a few months to do.Fundamentally it would be nice to mess up how virus works after it enters a cell, but the problem is it is looks a lot like what humans are made out of in the first place. Remdesivir was something intended to do this for RNA virus.There is a pretty complete video about how covid-19 works and some strategies against it here:I mean in SCI-FI it would great to do like a micron scale scan of the entire planet and somehow materialize ionizing energy at all those points, but I am guessing that can't be done right now.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 06:58:21 pm
content: This is a good video.Notice what she says about how there are literally thousands of bat coronaviruses still in bats that have yet to emerge. But likely will in the future. That means we need a new approach to this, otherwise it will be like highway robbery every few years where everybody who cannot cough up everything demanded gets to take a huge risk of dying and in fact, many will die. It will be the modern day version of paying tribute to your local feudal lord.Quote from: msuffidy on May 07, 2020, 10:46:26 pm

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 12:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2020, 07:59:11 pmNature is sickness and plague non stop. Human civilization is the one chance man has to escape nature and escape we must. Nature sucks, death sucks.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 07:01:06 pm
content: Oh boy. When i see those youtube comment videos regarding "The escape"... There is a certain boyish personality who really believe that crap has some meaning other than making money from entertainment.Yes, human capabilities are tremendous, but so are human failures. Typical human failure: Well, doctors tell me that virus disease may be lethal and they can't heal it, but let's wait how bad it really is. Hospitals are full of people ashamed of being infected.Some days ago one of our virus experts said: If i can't sleep it's because of USA, Brasil and India. As far as i know there is no other cure than the one invented by the Chinese: Wear masks, observe distance. South Korea just reports another outbreak that may affect several thousand people. It originated in a bar..Regards, Dieter

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 07:47:19 pm
content: That's a rather bizarre jump to make.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 08:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on May 05, 2020, 07:59:11 pmWell, let's give it a little push.Bill Gates "beste mann",Marina Abramović "beste bitch".Do we belive in the Georgia Guidestones?Do we know, what is the nature of eugenics?Do we know who and what the father of BG was?Do we know what Robert F. Kennedy jr says?Information and education is a debt to be collected. Not only in the IT-world, that one should think for oneself.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 07:23:59 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on May 03, 2020, 10:41:22 pmBeing such a niche product ionizers tend to not be very well optimized. The ones used in LG air conditioners use carbon brushes, will create much more emission at lower voltages than the classical needle array, with negligible ozone at 2-3 kV.I wonder if there's a place for ion wind driven electrostatic precipitators for air filtering. They could be made dirt cheap. Though there is some conflicting evidence, ionic wind fans seem to be able to be maderelativelyefficient.You could make them so cheap you could fill entire ceilings with them at low costs ... this might be enough to bring interior infections down to exterior levels (ie. negligible).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 11:53:41 pm
content: My concern is that most of the particles that come into your living space eventually leave the same way they came in, by convection and airflow. However when you have a negative ionizer - the stuff that comes in, stays inside, it ends up sticking to your walls and especially, electronics, or anything thats grounded and pointy, like your hair.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 01:58:19 am
content: The ones in air conditioners and electrostatic precipitators only ionize the air temporarily, they catch the ionized dust to do filtering. The air coming out is neutral.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 03:41:33 am
content: Its different when the air contains toxic risks. I learned about this the hard way and have the scars to prove it. If indeed there is a coronavirus risk, you shouldnt be doing anything to have it cleaned out of the air, at least I wouldnt. I'd leave the ionizer alone. When they do sampling for virus RNA in a room, they go to any fan blades first. Dont use an ionizer unless you have a way of immediately diisinfecting it or something.In my case there was mold and a very toxic grease in the air. The thin toxic film of dust from hell..

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:36:53 am
content: First of all Viruses can't multiply in dust and some recent research contends thatairborne transmissionis in fact dominant.Also as I said, when they use it in an air-conditioner before a filter or in an electrostatic precipitator there are no ions coming out. They essentially use a coarse grounded filter, which normally won't catch the fine particles ... but because the particles get ionized they do, together with all the other ions.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 12:18:42 pm
content: I could certainly use a good air filter without lots of static pressure like my HEPA filter has.Is there any way to test without destroying your multimeter, if a filter with ionizer inside is emitting high voltage particles? Something with a very high input impedance and bulletproof? It just has to be a relative measurement.Because I don't want to make something that ionizes the air outside of its box and makes dust stick to walls and other things.Either whatever I use removes dust without ions escaping, or I cannot use it. It has to be self contained, and easy to clean because dust makes me sick.A three wire plug that grounds it, no problem.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 01:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on June 18, 2020, 12:18:42 pmYou could simple connect a metal plate to earth through the multimeter and put it on the current measuring or voltage setting (ie. 10 Meg shunt current measurement). Hold it in front and see if it makes a difference when you turn the ionizer on (the airflow alone might cause some static charge).That said, there's not that many residential air filters which work this way. They are heavily used industrially of course, but not so much in consumer applications. Even the washable electrostatic filters for HVAC seem to rely on friction to create ions in the air rather than ionizers.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 01:51:04 am
content: For UK residents (or those who can spoof their IP location) BBC radio 4's 'Inside Science' programme covered the engineering of buildings, public transport etc. to control infection:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000jxvpPerhaps most interestingly, starting at 9:05, Birmingham University (UK) have developed anti-bacterial surface treatments with very long lifetimes - several years at least. Bacteria are killed within milliseconds of contact; they are very sure they will be equally effective against coronavirus but need to test it when their labs, closed by the lockdown, become available again (a few weeks work).The process involves nitriding to bind anti-bacterial chemicals such as bleach or chlorhexidine to the surface. It has been succesfully trialled in the Royal Navy for 12 months. It can't be retro-fitted to existing surfaces but they are investigating films that can be applied. This sounds very promising and a relatively cheap way of eliminating risks of contact transmission in public places, especially hospitals, by replacing light switches, door handles, water taps etc.No doubt the bureaucrats will manage to kill it in short order. Corrected the programme name from 'Science Direct'. No idea where that came from.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 02:12:20 am
content: QuoteNo need for fancy new technology,just use copper ,ok maybe not light switches.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 02:18:03 am
content: Copper tape is not that expensive and can be used on lots of things.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 02:45:04 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 20, 2020, 02:12:20 amYou seem very confident that copper is effective against coronavirus although you might be right given it's known to be effective at killing bacteria, algae etc. But how quickly might it kill coronavirus - quick enough to prevent transmission to the next person in the ATM queue?Copper isn't cheap; whereas nitriding isn't (as far as I know). Copper oxidises so it won't be desirable for many applications. Who would want copper (plated) taps, toilet flush handles, door push plates etc. that need frequent cleaning/polishing? Similarly with silver, another known bactercide.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 07:37:09 pm
content: Google scholar says copper works on influenza, but not exactly lightning fast.Though even for influenza it seems to be an open question whether airborne or surface-to-hand-to-eye transmission dominates (theoretically mouth/nose contact too, but I suspect it's mainly rubbing your eyes which does it). For corona it's now a reopened question too ... I think WHO's decision to call it not airborne as mostly settled science was an ill conceived lie to prevent shortages of masks.We need good science to tell us which routes dominate. If one of the routes dominates and the rest can't can't bring R0 above say 0.1 alone then worrying too much about them is not productive, we need to know which of the routes are the low hanging fruit. I suspect airborne transmission indoor is the low hanging fruit.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2020, 07:47:45 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 20, 2020, 07:37:09 pmSounds like both routes are worth taking into consideration for now?

author: bluey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 08:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 20, 2020, 07:37:09 pmI agree. There is enough evidence but the experts arent convinced yet, still peddling contact.Moreso the major route is probably close range aerosol inhalation from asymptomatic superspreaders indoors.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P9tBF-1RE5vw5hZyGIZ89Fl8munmLEQS/viewThink “breathing in other peoples smoke”.They way it looks, corononavirus could hang round until we get herd immunity. But scores of mutations have already been identified. So could still be another flu-like virus we live with forever.Contact tracing wont work until we can afford to test asymptomatic people.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 10:23:48 pm
content: Ventilation is going to need to improve a lot in many buildings where people gather together.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:22:16 pm
content: Quote from: bluey on June 27, 2020, 08:59:31 pmAppearantly there isn't enough evidence otherwise the experts would have reached a conclusion.Covid-19 is a new disease with many unknowns. If we keep chasing the 'new idea du-jour' we end up running in circles and probably doing more harm than good. See the whole hydroxychloroquine failure.