Where did all the used test equipment deals go? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: petemate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pm
content: Hi guys,I don't know if this is just me venting my frustration or if I'm making this up, but it seems to me that all the good deals(or just any deals) have disappeared. Am I the only one experiencing this?I used to be able to hit up ebay and get nice selection of reasonably priced items that of course wouldn't be the latest and greatest, but at least somewhat modern units. For instance, around 5-6 years ago there always were a few Keithley 2015/2016 units available for just a few hundred USD/EUR. And of course, a lot of other interesting listings as well. I live in the EU, so I only look at items located within the EU borders, to get around import and VAT issues.All these "deals" have disappeared over the last few years.. When I look through the "Test, Measurement & Inspection Equipment" category on ebay, its mostly old and/or useless crap at exorbitant prices. I guess the disappearance of any good listings coincided with Brexit and Covid. I get that Brexit basically excluded the entire British market to me, but the same applies to listings on e.g. the german ebay site.Is it simply that all the good stuff gets snatched up the second its posted, or am I correct that the selection has diminished significantly?Feel free to tell me that I'm just making this up, if thats the case

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 09:43:56 pm
content: I've been wondering the same thing...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 10:13:54 pm
content: Looking at recent sold ebay.com prices: Keithley 2015 $580 to $675Yeah seems high.MSRP for a new DMM6500 went from under $1200 to now $1670.There may also be scarcity of that particular model if old units are starting to fail.There are definitely still deals around. Maybe look around locally for auctions, companies shutting down, on marketplace, etc.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2023, 07:47:00 pm
content: Quote from: petemate on September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pmI agree Ebay seems to have less good deals lately, but still some do appear, but you have to search much harder to find them between the old and overpriced junk.Quote from: petemate on September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pmI would not do that. Most items I buy come from the US, and even with shipping and import, they are still more affordable than Ebay items from the EU

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 10:27:11 am
content: I haven't watched eBay for quite some time now, but from the rant in the OP it looks like nothing much has changed during the past ten years.It depends on the items. Back then there was only a few great sellers from Finland (or maybe it's always been the same), who had really great deals. I got my Keithley 2015 THD this way - I think it was less than €400,- - but it was not easy to find comparable deals within Europe.My RF signal generator Anritsu MG3633A came from Finland as well - nothing even remotely comparabe was available in the rest of Europe.When I needed more precision and accurcy than my standard lab-DMM (Picotest M3500A = Keithley 2100), which I had baught new, was capable of, I had to order from the US to get a Keithley 2001. I bought two of them from different sellers, neither was a proplem since eBay/PayPal already had the customs service included back then, so there was basically no difference compared to local deals - except for the higher price and shipping costs.If rediculous shipping costs are quoted, then I assume the seller doesn't want to do international business and I simply ignore the offer. There have always been plenty of reasonable dealers on eBay.In any case, the most important thing back then (as well as most likely now) is patience. Set up a search for the item you want and just wait. At one point you will get an eMail that hints on a decent unit for a reasonable price, even if it takes weeks or even months.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 11:10:52 am
content: Although not living in EU, I have noticed that some "seasons of bargains" at eBay are also dependent on major events in the industry or economy - from the .com bubble burst of the early 2000s, the crysis of 2008/2009 and, specifically in the US, the implosion of a very large technincal school in 2016. What is interesting nowadays is that this post-bs-lockdown economic downturn has probably done some "harm" to the bargains as the surviving companies might be holding on to their equipment longer than issuing capex authorizations for replacement, which in turn reduces the availability of older gear in the marketplace.As others mentioned the bargains are still there, but perhaps people realized that eBay is not the only game in town anymore: there are many other online outlets for used items nowadays.

author: wn1fju
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 11:44:59 am
content: At least here in the USA, there certainly was a marked decline in eBay offerings during Covid, probably due to companies not actively engaged in purchasing new test equipment and retiring old.But in the last year or so, the situation seems to be improving. And yes, there are a lot of ridiculously overpriced listings. One can usually determine the fair market value of a used piece, especially one that is 20+ years old, by looking at the "sold/completed" listings. And yet you will frequently see sellers offering pieces at ten times that value. It is like they are totally oblivious. I often want to e-mail the seller the question, "are you kidding me?"

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 01:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: wn1fju on September 23, 2023, 11:44:59 amEbay needs to add a "Are you F****** kidding me?" button, like the Like and Dislike buttons used on social media so that viewers can flag ridiculous listings. And the Search there should have an option to not-display any flagged items.I hate how much time I waste looking for items on Ebay only to find things that have ridiculous prices and/or shipping fees. Yesterday's laugh of the day was abrokenHP 4338A for ~$1300! And two working ones on there for ~$800.I do regret that Ebay no longer charges a listing fee based on the starting price of the item. Now seller just throw junk on there and put an insane price on it and see if anyone is that stupid or that desperate.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 03:02:43 pm
content: Or they are being hoarded by Russia...

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 04:49:51 pm
content: Or China

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2023, 04:54:43 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 23, 2023, 01:49:46 pmWe have a saying in the office for this; E-Bay wankerism

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2023, 03:56:32 pm
content: I would LOVE it if eBay added a laugh react button. That would make the experience a lot more satisfying.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2023, 05:44:23 pm
content: Inflation across the board is around 20% in that timeframe, as a reference.New test equipment prices have spiked by at least that much.Shipping charges are up 3x what they were in 2018 or more (at least in the US, outside of the postal service).More people are looking for equipment, especially with things like youtube to learn about obscure equipment and run side businesses using it, and the prices for new mean more small businesses are buying used.Your Keithley 2015 is actually a pretty good reference. Yes, they went for cheap before when they were being surplussed with low demand, but how much demand does it take to get it to $600 on the used market for a working one when a new one from Tek is $6600 and it's in the current product line? My guess would be on the order of 5-10 sales a month across ebay would drive the price up enough in that timeframe to double the price from 2018 to 2023 - the supply was never hundreds of units, I'm currently seeing 24 units on the market available to the US on ebay.Yeah, there are definitely people listing arbitrarily high prices for equipment, and yeah, there are people buying equipment to make a quick buck turning it around for a higher price... but I think the 'good ol days' of cheap used equipment was a combination of a market with legitimately depressed prices because of low demand and an overlooking of the impact of the significant inflation in the last three years.

author: magic_smoke
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 02:53:55 pm
content: I believe there are still some bargains if you commit to hunting.A Hameg HM604 was sold for 25 euros a couple of days ago on auction (without probes). It was misspelled as "HAMEL" in the title and it was the only electronics related item from the seller. Unfortunately I was hesitant to bid as I can't tell if it was working from the photos. The last time I touched an analog scope was many years ago at university.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 05:14:17 pm
content: Note that Keysight's used store still exists, it is just not on EBay anymore. They have quite a few units 50-60% off, which makes them a somewhat more reasonable value for the well-heeled hobbyist / budding professional.https://saving.em.keysight.com/en/used/I know this may not work in the EU due to their requirements to only sell to / support businesses. In the US, I just gave it a shot and while it's a bit more convoluted than on EBay (they use a standard quoting mechanism, not direct sales), they only ask for a company name, not proof that's you have anything actually incorporated (which doesn't really exist anyway).

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 08:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on September 27, 2023, 05:14:17 pmAre you sure they will sell you without a VAT ID, or whatever they can ask for to make sure you are not a hobby user?Quote from: petemate on September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pmNo, you are not the only one. I think they are purchasing back cheap used equipment and destroying it (and writing it down from taxes) because the used market was driving their sales down.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 10:42:21 pm
content: There is certainly much less broken HPAK gear on eBay. What is listed is usually priced quite high compared to a few years ago - and often sells so I guess that's just how pricing/values have gone.Put a real dent into a super fun hobby. I love buying broken stuff.

author: dobsonr741
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 10:42:28 pm
content: Real auctions are still happening, like on BidSpotter

author: M Harris
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 11:15:39 am
content: Quote from: LaurentR on September 27, 2023, 05:14:17 pmYes, but any time you hit the Enquire button it takes them 4-8 weeks to reply (if at all) saying "oh we had a data error, are you still interested?" - never had a response faster than that from them.--In general I think the supply chain issues have also played havoc with the used market, since it has been damn near impossible to get some classes of new equipment. Vendors have only just received stock of the Keysight 6.5/7.5 digit DMM's in the past few months. Keysight's earnings call said they are back ordered by about a billion US dollars which is absolutely incredible... thats a lot of test equipment that isnt getting replaced, even if a substantial portion of that back order list is for new capability.Personally, I've never found anything decent on online market places when I've looked in the past... but I could just be doing it wrong **shrug**

author: arvidb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 10:02:22 am
content: Quote from: petemate on September 21, 2023, 09:23:17 pmHow do you even do this nowadays? Isn't it several years now since Ebay removed the option to filter on item location? I've pretty much stopped using Ebay since; almost regardless of what I'm searching for any possibly interesting items are drowned in a sea of cheapChinese versionsitems located in China (that is: possibly low-quality clones; no useful buyer protection; impossible to know if electrical certifications are genuine; hassle with VAT and shipping, ...).

author: petemate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 07:22:56 pm
content: Hi all, thanks for all your input - Glad i'm not the only one feeling like this. Only remaining question is where do I go to satisfy my need for test equipment?Quote from: arvidb on September 29, 2023, 10:02:22 amYeah, they changed some things and it took me a loong time to figure out what the problem was. For some reason, if you have entered a non-ebay country "delivery location"(the field immediately below the "sort" drop down menu when you search for something), then ebay removes the option to filter by item location. If you enter e.g. Germany as delivery location, the function comes back and you can filter by "European union".

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 07:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: petemate on September 29, 2023, 07:22:56 pmNew.Good new instruments have never been so well priced.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 08:08:04 pm
content: Not to sound as a conspiracy nut, but my opinion is this is another link in the chain indicating the West is tightening technology availability. You all remember the Keysight lawers going after buyers who purchased used Agilent/Keysight gear on ebay saga, or Keysight suddenly leaving hobby market overnight. The export compliancy declarations that the suppliers like Digikey have put forward is anothef indication. As president Obama liked to say, "do not make any mistakes".

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 08:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on September 29, 2023, 08:08:04 pmBut why?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 08:50:27 pm
content: To achive technological supremacy.And the old professional gear is very capable. Who cares about size and weight if it is functional for the purpose. Cutting off the old gear availability is the 'stop the bleading' step.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 12:52:44 am
content: These anti-West statements are common amongst the butt hurt jealous types and communists. The fact is that significant amounts of successful technology innovation and "supremacy" sprung from and exists in countries such as Korea, Japan and Taiwan.Export restrictions/controls and sanctions basically apply to countries with leaders that wish to do those countries harm, so naturally their allies comply. Furthermore, certain countries are known for state-sponsored extreme levels of intellectual property and technology theft for military and other reasons so that requires constant due diligence.And I don't want to hear any come backs about racism or nationalism because that has nothing to do with this.

author: deepfryed
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 01:44:37 am
content: This was my question a while back in another thread. I think it's rare to come across good deals anymore, especially if you're looking for equipment marked as "not working, for parts". Got to keep looking and hope you get lucky.

author: arvidb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 08:29:53 am
content: Quote from: petemate on September 29, 2023, 07:22:56 pmWow, thank you for this! I never would have found this out by myself. I wonder if it's a bug or intentional. Weird, anyway!

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 12:33:24 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 29, 2023, 07:26:32 pmSeveral thoughts on this. First, Tauteg is right. Siglent 1004xe upgradeable to 1204xe w/o discount at Saelig for $375???THOUGHT I wanted Agilent used, luckily they treated me like crap (I am in US) and I canceled the order.And I fully support the export controls. What the US did to Motorola in the 70s was unforgivable. While the horses are out of the barn on the tech since, there are economic and national defense reasons I support the controls.As far as used, I am setting up my learning lab (was HS voced electronics 55 years ago; USN curriculum). I also think "value" also depends on what you need the TE for.My problem kink in life is I like data over opinion. Here we go.Ebay prices including shipping:BK 1520 scope; perfect only needed adjustment $95 (this enabled me to relearn scope basics and rule my Sig)Fluke 8084/AF; cal sticker intact, from a component manufacturer; completely consistent with Sig scope and HP below $140HP 3478A; see above; only needed new battery $95 (consistent w/ Fluke w/in 2 digits)DM 441B; perfect, consistent with the two above $80 (somewhat expendable but I like the counter and quick Beta tester)BK 501A Curve tracer; perfect, just needed BNC connectors $180 (Reason for 1520 scope) Had I known more; woulda waited for a turnkey tracer stationFluke 27/FM w/trimmings and US Army Cal till Oct 2024 $85 (will surplus out; I have a Simpson 647 which I calibrated to above)Micronta 220-20 in box $30 (for expendable checks)I understand most here will consider my TE is uncalibrated. But at least the results are reliable if not valid and I never imagined the need to measure below one mV, one uA or one ohm!So I have a learning lab for about $1K. Maybe I just overpaid?I am gobsmacked at the TE available today at prices unthinkable 55 years ago (a $20 thing that measures L,C,R and measures and IDs semiconductors???) A calculator that does calculus for $25; I remember simple ones for $100!. And they were banned in college.Try adjusting all these prices for 1980 (better 1970) dollars.This is like 15 years ago when the AO/B&L $2000 optical scopes were selling for $100 due to digital imaging. Put all my loupes in a drawer!Regards,Dewey

author: petemate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 09:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: arvidb on September 30, 2023, 08:29:53 amNo clue. I was basically slamming ebay with questions on this, because it seems so stupid.. But they did not even understand the issue, despite being sent screenshots that I was unable to select "item location" filters. In the end I used a VPN to show them the issue and the answer I got back was "I suggest you don't use a VPN".Quote from: tautech on September 29, 2023, 07:26:32 pmTrue, for the most "basic" stuff. But I don't need another oscilloscope or PSU. I want all the niche equipment that would be too expensive for me from new

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2023, 07:48:23 pm
content: I mean, who needs deals when you can have this rusty 40 year old whatever for 180 dollars instead of 200www.ebay.com/itm/374807675481

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 06:44:15 am
content: eBay fees are significant, about 15%. Many sellers maintain their own storefront where the prices are lower, or you can contact them directly for other arrangements.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 03:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on October 03, 2023, 06:44:15 amYes, 15% is a lot, but not when they're charging 5000% over the real value. The ones I love are when people charge $1000 over the new price for current products still available new.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 05:43:23 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on October 03, 2023, 03:19:52 pmThis is a different issue and has been discussed in other threads.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 07:58:45 pm
content: Do you guys base your opinions on eBay live auction prices or completed listing prices?Two observations from me:It's possible that eBay hides some completed listings below a certain threshold price from sold / completed item searches, so you may not know the true average / median price unless you're watching the auctions live. You also no longer have the ability to view the selling prices for Best Offer listings, so that information is also missing.Buy it now sellers tend to anchor high with their asking prices, which means you'll need to anchor low when making offers despite any negative sentiments about "low-balling". I feel like the general culture of selling has moved more towards BiN style reverse auctions over the years, so you'll have to play the game to get the deals.

author: aeg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 10:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 03, 2023, 07:58:45 pmI don't think eBay hides completed listings below a threshold price per se, but the time horizon for completed items searches has gotten pretty small. So you'll only see the recent high-dollar unsold BIN listings, and not the hot deal from 2 months ago. They also prune the active listing results when you sort by price, which can make you miss some listings.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 11:29:42 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 03, 2023, 07:58:45 pmBoth.I check prices for certain TE literally everyday and theaskingprices are getting higher andmoreridiculous everyday. And very little of it is getting sold and none of it at the high prices. But hey, as a seller when you can list things for free and relist them dozens of times for free, there is NO incentive to ask realistic prices. I've looked at the completed sales of some sellers and they actually sell very little of what they have listed."It's possible that eBay hides some completed listings"Not that I've ever seen. I've looked at the closed auctions of hundreds of items and I've never found one that wasn't shown. OTOH if the seller is asking X and accepts a lower price, Ebay shows what they were asking and not the amount that they eventually sold it for.

author: chilternview
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 08:47:20 am
content: There has definitely been a change in eBay UK listings this year. Previously, search for something like 'Agilent 4156C' and you'd get half a dozen items, all in the US, some of which would not ship WW, or just didn't show a postage for non-US buyers. Now, you don't get any of these listings.They are still there in ebay.com, so I just look there instead. And if I really want an item, I ask the seller if they'll ship to the UK. Some say its too much bother, so I ask them if I arange DHL to pick it up from them is that ok (they still need a packing list and invoice but I can help them with that). They usually agree.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2023, 01:15:10 pm
content: Quote from: chilternview on October 04, 2023, 08:47:20 amActually coming to think about it, I think the shipping costs are somewhat responsible for this. During the lockdowns the shipping costs skyrocketed, and I don't think it came all the way down since. So if you want to buy a 600 EUR DMM, and the shipping is 150, and most of the available units are in the USA, the local price will follow and it will be 750. And then they look up the prices it was sold when listing, they see it was sold for 750,then they will list it at 750, then the locals start selling it at 900. And that's where we are now.