Salton 3-in-1 Waffle Maker Failure - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 04:42:36 pm
content: Hi folks,My wife bought a "Salton 3-in-1 Waffle maker" a few months ago and to our surprise it broke in relatively short time. Considering that it was only a few months, I expected to get a little more life out of this little useful appliance. Also, the mode of failure was also not expected but now that I think about how cheap this appliance cost, should have been anticipated.It costs around or even under $20 at many places:So what happened is basically the plastic on the unit dried up and started to CRUMBLE. First the hinge snapped the plastic it was connected to. The hinge was intact but the plastic body of the appliance cracked. I decided to take it apart and see what was inside (see "PaperCAD" drawings attached and photos of inside wiring) and was surprised at how fragile the plastic housing was. As I was taking it apart, I was able to grab the plastic and crumble it in my hands! It looked like thick plastic but it was very brittle and took almost nothing to snap!I assume that the plastic material in this hot environment essentially dried up. The electronics remained intact, but the plastic material was unable to handle the heat and lost all plasticity? Or was it made that way from the start? And would these be a fire hazard with the entire plastic housing going up in flames?I am also trying to understand the wiring. There are basically 2 heating elements in SERIES through a TF (thermal fuse) which remains OPEN as long as it doesn't reach a certain temperature. If it goes Over-temp then the TF cuts out and therefore no current travels through the heating elements.What confuses me is the placement of the lamps. I assume lamp 1 just indicates voltage on the mains. It passes little to no current, and would be lit regardless of the status of the TF? It simply indicates that the device is plugged in the mains and that both heating elements are conductive? Lamp 2 indicates conduction of only one of the heating elements? I'm confused.... These lamps were under the RED and GREEN plastic filters in the cover. The manual is here:https://www.salton.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/SM-1069-IB-ENweb.pdfAccording to the manual (this manual is a slightly different model, it has 2 red lights, not 1 red and 1 green). The manual says one of the red lights (lamp 1) will stay lit no matter what. Meanwhile the TF will cycle on and off to maintain a certain temperature and will cause lamp 2 to go on and off.In my diagram I draw the yellow lead to lamp 2 going diagonally downwards to a wire BETWEEN the heating elements. My intuition seems to me that the yellow wire on the right of lamp 2 should be going straight across. If the TF opens, no current will be going through the elements.... but why does lamp 2 turn on/off? You still have lamp 1 on, regardless, indicating voltage on the mains. I would expect lamp 2 to also be on from the start, yet it is not. Is that because the voltage needed to turn on lamp 1 and 2 are different?[EDIT: I was to correct my drawing, I would draw lamp 2 in series with the TF.... So what would happen is lamp2-TF would be OFF when the TF is open. Lamp 1 would always be one. I am not sure but following my wires in the photo I seemed to come up with that "CAD" drawing but I don't see it as being correct].Back to the failure more of this grill.... Now I see the TF is really the only thing regulating this system. There is no on/off switch, you simply plug it in and it will keep cycling on/off based on the TF (which I would have expected to fail before the plastic). The device is supposed to be regulated for safety and approved by InterTek, has all the stickers on, etc... But somehow it does not instil much confidence in the design.Any thoughts, or am I just expecting too much from a ~$20 griller?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 04:53:26 pm
content: I've attached the updated CAD drawing based on my  above... I think this is what is going on but I can't seem to get this when looking at the wires. Although it makes more sense (see attached file). NOTE: It could be the way the leads go on the heating elements, if I reverse it then the topology seems to fit my intuition (second CAD drawing) and that makes sense.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 04:57:21 pm
content: It is amazing how poorly designed and manufactured many consumer devices and appliances are these days. My advice would be to look around on Kijiji or at garage sales, etc. for an old model that will work for generations.The one I use is at least 50 years old and still working perfectly. It's older than I am, I've been using it since I was a kid and it wasn't anywhere close to new then. It might have been a wedding present for my parents or something. My grandmother had one also and it is still used by my aunt at the old family house.The one I have is this particular old GE model which has the plates that can be flipped from waffle to flat griddle (great for panini-style grilled cheese, etc.) Virtually indestructible. Stainless steel housing, aluminum cooking griddles, bakelite handle and feet. It is the model pictured in this auction....https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-GE-General-Electric-Waffle-Iron-Baker-Automatic-Griddle-A3G44T/183384018084Some descriptions of this unit incorrectly state that the griddles are teflon coated. They're not. They're solid aluminum and once seasoned have a black appearance. Here is (a slightly newer one, you can tell by the updated label on the front at the temperature control, my Grandma's old unit has this style label) that must have never been used since the griddles are still clean aluminum:https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vtg-1960s-General-Electric-GE-Automatic-Grill-and-Waffle-Baker-34G42-EXCELLENT/132699891019Find something old and "built properly," typically for for about 1/2 - 3X the price of the cheap garbage they sell now (instead of paying 10x+ for a commercial grade unit that is made to last) and you're likely to never need to replace it in your lifetime, even with constant use.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 05:02:24 pm
content: Quote from: edy on September 09, 2018, 04:42:36 pmThat isn't a thermal fuse, it is a thermostat. There will be a thermal fuse in there somewhere also, probably under one of the white fibreglass sleeves, in case the thermostat fails closed and the unit overheats, but it will be an actual one-time thermal fuse, not a thermostat that opens and closes.After using one with variable temperature my entire lifetime, I cannot imagine trying to use one that doesn't even have a temperature control and just runs at one temperature. Junk!

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 05:05:30 pm
content: Oh, and the purpose of two lamps is one for power and one is supposed to tell you when the unit is up to temperature so you can do your "one-temperature-fits-all" grilling...I suppose, since it can ONLY make waffles (grrr... unitaskers!), it can probably get away with just one temperature, as long as you use waffle batter that conforms to their temperature range for proper baking...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 05:07:51 pm
content: Quote from: drussell on September 09, 2018, 05:02:24 pmYes, I found it! The thermal fuse (AXIAL) is under one of the thicker white sleeves actually on the RED wire just next to where it joins to the mains plug wiring. And yes that is a THERMOSTAT that turns on and off to "regulate" the temperature. And I agree with you that this is a piece of junk! But surprisingly the failure wasn't even the electronics, it was the PLASTIC! But how this passes inspection and gets sold to this market...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 05:13:18 pm
content: Yes that plastic is getting poorer by the year, I have some that are around 20 years old (should actually open the box and see, but last time I used them was last century) and the similar ones also had plastic failing before the elements did. Not that I actually eat bread any more, and in any case making grilled or toasted things is a lot easier for me with a frying pan to do the heat work.But then Salton is just a badge these days, stuck on whatever is coming out of an assembly line in China, not like it was decades ago when they actually owned factories. Still have 2 Salton warming trays in the garage, not used for years, but they will still work, as they are from the 1980's.There is a 180C one time thermal fuse in the white sleeving on the red wires, to provide the protection if the thermal switch fails, but those little switches rarely fail on 230VAC, don't know about the high current in 120VAC use, the contact points inside them are quite small. 2 wires and ungrounded, here they have the ground wire attached to both plates for protection and a 3 pin plug.if you want a decent one go find an industrial version, it has both the temperature control and reversible plates, so you can make waffles and toasted sandwiches as well, though the small ones here are all snackwich makers.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 05:54:03 pm
content: Quote from: edy on September 09, 2018, 05:07:51 pmIndeed! I wouldabsolutelytake it back and get my money back, even though it was only $20. It is the principle of the thing! That appliance is simply not fit for service in any way, shape or form...

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 07:19:17 pm
content: im waiting for a high temperature plastic frying pan for eggs. sous vide cooking is already bringing plastic into the cooking realm. mmm microplasticstheoretically you can still cook that way if you get a thin metal container and pack the meat in densely with a layer of oil on top.I find the idea of beating a steak into a thin rectangular container very amusing. You can trim it and fry the other bits up sliced thin with some garlic or something to make a sauce/garnish.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 08:00:21 pm
content: It has a 2-prong plug, but with polarity. I confirmed it was under $20 Canadian sold at Wal-Mart. They cut costs wherever possible. I never thought it would be the plastic housing now but I guess there is only so much they can cut on the electronics before it becomes an issue with certification/safety approvals. The plastic housing on the other hand.... I bet they can sneak by that a little easier since it takes a number of months to fail.I've never seen any plastic that easy to crumble, especially that thick. I felt like Superman but I'm sure it was not my strength that magically increased! It only happens in very old plastic that has been out in the sun or has had a lot of heat which is probably what happened in this case, being that you can't control anything and it just cycles to full strength each time... thermal stresses.Coincidentally, the other issue that happened about the same time is the "NON-STICK" surface on the main plates we were using started to fail. Despite using the exact same lubricant and having no issues with stick over the past few months, all of a sudden today everything was sticking to it. I am wondering if the heat actually was higher than normal since there is no way to set it anyways, if the Thermostat calibration went off.We would buy a more expensive one if I could get them to vouch for the quality but since everything is coming out of Factory City China these days, just rebranded, who can trust anything being made these days?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 08:10:48 pm
content: cast iron, you just need to brush it with a angle grinder and season it (takes about 3 minutes of time every 45 min for a few hours).its basically NRE.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 08:22:01 pm
content: That is a very sad story about dirty cheap manufacturing materials. I have seen a few examples here and there, and several were plagued by the sheer inadequacy of the plastics or circuitry used.One additional thing I started to be concerned after having kids was the release of materials into the food - something that is quite difficult to find information, especially in cheaper brands.http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/326/Whats-In-Your-Non-Stick/print(edit: added link)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 08:31:59 pm
content: Does the plastic have any identifying marks on it?I believe it could be a side-effect of making things "biodegradable", perhaps the factory accidentally specified that instead of regular plastic

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 08:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on September 09, 2018, 08:31:59 pmI suspect the markings wouldn't be correct anyway.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 09:25:17 pm
content: Hi guys,After your suggestions I looked for some marking on the plastic... there was NONE! I couldn't figure out what this stuff was made of, so I made this video below to show you how easily it breaks in case nobody believed me. Check this out.... I'm not that strong, I've never been able to destroy molded plastic like this before!!!!! :

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 09:30:57 pm
content: It looks brittle. Maybe they messed up the plasticiser. Though it almost looks like polystyrene.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:44:29 pm
content: My waffle maker/sandwich toaster is very old so I did some looking around. I discovered that it's impossible to buy a waffle maker today unless it's Belgian. I don't know why. I want the old style, small square type.So I cleaned up the old one and it works okay except isn't nonstick, even though the plates are still brown. So I spray on some oil and that fixes it for a single use. I also use it for pancakes with the plates turned to sandwich side. The batter recipe is the same.Mine is either Toastmaster or Sunbeam, and there is an adjustable thermostat. Also a window to see the element; when it glows, it's below set temperature. They saved on a lamp.My son once told me that the brown color is paint, and the teflon wears off eventually and it will stick. He also said that he suspects that many people have residual teflon in their stomachs but it's probably not harmful.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 06:49:19 am
content: Quote from: bob91343 on May 29, 2020, 09:44:29 pmThat sounds a lot like my GE "Automatic Grill / Waffle Baker" that have the flippable flat grill/waffle side plate thingies. I have at least two of them, the newest one must be over 50 years old. Excellent units.I don't think the grille plate thingies were ever teflon coated on this model, I'm pretty sure they were always just bare aluminum that you can season to black like a cast iron frying pan or something. All the ones I have ever seen in person are aluminum, anyway....I could post pics...