what level of care do you keep your tools at? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 02:08:54 am
content: Polish everything? Just have the rust removed? Look like a contractor that stepped out the grave?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 03:12:07 am
content: I try to keep my tools clean. After doing anything on a vehicle, I take the time to wipe off any grease/fluids with shop towels before being put away. However, the older I get, the less memory I have and I do occasionally forget hand tools and sockets outside. Thankfully, I haven't done that with power or air tools. Of course, I only find them after a rain and they have rusted. I don't bother to try to restore them, no patience for it. I just replace. Now all the hand tools in the office/lab are very well cared for. and live in their own padded tool chest. Anything I get on them, such as flux or anything else, is cleaned off before going back into the tool chest.

author: GeoffreyF
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 06:07:59 pm
content: Maintain them enough so they will do in the future what they did in the past.It also depends on the tool. Rust remover, polishing, dismantling and reassembling your DVM? That's counter to the prior paragraph.A somewhat rusty hammer that hammers without abrading the skin - is still a hammer.A precision caliper - yeah, needs to be kept from degrading due to oxidation or caustics. However, if you polish it, are you removing some of it's surface and over time reducing its accuracy?So - what tools are you asking about?I also think there is a tendency to over fetishize tools rather than find more exciting adventures for their use.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 06:39:52 pm
content: well its easier to see if you are using the tool correctly when its clean. You can easily detect bur formation, scratches, etc, so you know if you need to use a different wrench or you might scuff something etc.Even with a hammer you might realize if its all nice that you need to use a different hammer or something (optimally).And its safer to have clean stuff if you cut yourself. And you can see crack formation too, so you know if something is damaged and its not hiding under a patina or something. Like you might notice galling that can strike off and hit you in the eye if its all polished and nice. And you can see if something gets dangerous material on it (i.e. if a handle is very clean and well colored you can see that a filing got on it, so it won't imbed in your hand when you pick it up).I do find it extremely frustrating to get tools to a nice level though. You need to spread out the work over like a year on all your tools to keep them nice without going crazy and getting numb hands from wire/polishing wheels, waxing, etc. Then it kinda turns into a continuous thing where every week you find something thats degrading and restore it to good levels. I find the surface finish work on irregular objects to be extremely frustrating.I almost think of most shops being run like Russia, where moscaw (metrology) is really nice but the slums are literary falling apart. Try taking a bench grinder shield off some time (). The thermal areas are usually Chernobyl quality.Some people just are not effected by the process though? Like they will work in some dank shit hole with mold covered tools so long the job gets done right. I can't do that. Their like fucking enlightened Buddhist monks. Or romeo zombies.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 07:58:27 pm
content: I give the rust susceptible tools, a light coating of oil before I put them away. It is habit I picked up from using tools at remote field stations where the tools may not see use for a few years. We would oil them all before closing up at the end of a season.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 09:39:40 pm
content: For tools you use/store in an environment where they rust, an initial or very occasional high polish will certainly help to reduce rust. But after you put all that work into it cleaning the rust and shining them up, you might consider this is the perfect point in time to protect them with a durable protective layer.IMO, if you want to patina steel for rust protection, smoother is better. If the patina doesn't take in super shiny/smooth spots, it's because those spots are highly resistant to the patina. And those spots will also be highly resistant to red rust. So don't worry about it if the patina isn't perfectly even due to those smooth/shiny spots.If you are going to paint, then any holes will be weak points, so a high polish is probably too much.Wax is for art. IMO, wax doesn't do anything useful for a tool unless it's going in a glass case after you're done polishing out all the fingerprints.If your tools are used in a place where they rust, get used to different colors. As long as it's not red rust, leave it alone. Paint is metal oxides suspended in some kind of plasticy varnish. Dirt and rocks are largely made up of metal oxides. Metal oxides are stable. Whatever weird colors appear on your steel tools, just leave them alone. It's nature's paint.Now, if you like to polish things, then go ahead and polish them over and over. Just take care and use proper precautions. For some tools, this can lead to blindness. Perhaps boron vacuum case hardening is a better solution. Personally, I prefer nitrocarburization. All it takes is a tank of molten cyanide salt at 1500F. Super practical, if you ask me.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 09:48:08 pm
content: Absolutely depends on the tools. A high value tool like the lathe I inherited from my father and plan to leave to one of my sons gets pretty high level care. On the other end I no longer clean paint brushes, I buy cheap ones and use them once and throw them away.In general though I like to keep my tools nice. I wipe them off, oil them and de-rust when necessary. Return them to their proper place after use so I can find them next time I need them. Sharpen those that need that and adjust them for proper operation. It just makes working easier.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 09:51:52 pm
content: wax protects from rust. I had shower hardware that was extremely dogdy (racks) that rusted over in 3 months after cleaning the rust patches off from the chrome plating with a wire brush and rogue.I did it again but next time I used car wax. Lasted like 12 months before it had 20% of the rust I had in 3 months.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 10:01:11 pm
content: Even rust isn't necessarily bad, if you get to it before it pits. If you oil it and brush off any loose rust, it's fine to leave brown surface rust. If you can get it to spread thinly and evenly, it's a durable protective finish.In days gone by, machinists used to intentionally surface rust parts with steam. It was called card bluing, but it is essentially red/brown rust, evenly applied and brushed to remove excess rust. Takes hours to do, and the result is a plum brown or eggplant color. The layer has to be kept very thin so it doesn't become porous and hygroscopic. Rust begets more rust.. where the spot gets thick and unchecked, that will start to pit and eat away. If you brush off the excess (or nip in the bud with your tools), then no harm no foul if you leave a thin brown oiled surface rust on your tools. If you have steel tools with highly finished and fairly smooth surfaces, and you maintain them regularly with oil, this is the type of rust you will form. It's protective.Totally random thought/analogy: epoxy coated rebar sucks because the spots where the coating is inevitably rubbed through during installation and handling, those spots rust way worse and faster than uncoated rebar. These defects are like the deep pits you want to avoid in your steel tools. Thin surface rust is not a thing to worry about.QuoteIt doesn't get touched by anything but air and condensation. So it's not exactly the same thing as a tool with mating/sliding and working surfaces. When that wax layer is scraped through, you would be better off with oil than the wax, IMO. Now you have something akin to the epoxy coated rebar. The rust will form in those spots, and it will be more destructive. If you have a "tool wall" with many infrequently used tools, then maybe wax is good for esthetics and protection.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 10:21:54 pm
content: well I don't really use it for joitns and stuff, just panels, non working surfaces (everything on pliers besides the part that grips)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 10:27:14 pm
content: I readily admit to being a tool collector as much as anything else, so I like everything to look like it's new or as close as I can keep it to looking like that.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 10:58:57 pm
content: If your tools are kept in a controlled environment, then that's totally practical.It's where your tools inevitably and repeatedly rust where you consider just leaving sleeping dogs lie. The spots that got rusted, those are the spots that are going to rust, again and again. IF you caught this in time before pitting, then the dark stains that are left after oiling and brushing and wiping are going to protect the tool. If you sand that back to shiny, you repeat the cycle. And next time, you might not catch it in time.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:09:46 pm
content: if you correct the surface finish why would it rust in the same spot again?You mean if its like heat treated wrong or something?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:26:56 pm
content: i dunno, Copper. I haven't figured out how to make carbon steel rust-proof by polishing it, yet. But I'm gonna think real hard and see what happens. Maybe I'm doing it wrong on a microscopic level.I also don't know how to polish inside sharp corners and hinges or between the teeth of a saw blade without it being a waste of time, so I sometimes use a wire brush and call it a day.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:27:17 pm
content: lol students.. lets just say there was like a handful of kids in the entire department that could be trusted to work without supervision.Otherwise shit got stolen and destroyed (especially grad students for some reason, I think the undergrads were scared).No strain relief is safe.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on March 02, 2019, 11:26:56 pma good way is paint (prep with degrease, sand, flame activation/cleaning) but if its machinists tools that go into a vise and need hard surfaces I imagine its difficult. I don't really do that thoughI don't imagine you want to paint anything you stick in a machinist vise like parallels or something. I think you need to make humidity controlled cabinets for that with gaskets and electronic dehumidifiers.Those things I usually put phosphoric acid on and grease to make some kind of grease retainer (like hard to reach surfaces that I don't have a custom dremel tool for.I meant this more with like hand tools, welding equipment, etc. Once it needs to interface to another machine thats a whole different expensive story?Something severely useful for difficult surfaces is a nylon abrasive impregnated brush for die grinders and dremels etc. They can actually polish really nicely and work irregular shit really good (and I mean you can do weird stuff like cut a buffing wheel in half)... I think if you are cleaning band saw teeth to a polish you have a bit too much free time on your hands unless you made some kind of really efficient method (i assume this is a joke).I think theoretically you supposed to use a machinists stone or whatever on saw teeth to polish their cutting face. Arkansas file or stone or something.https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/stones/hf-33-square-hard-arkansas-stone-3x3-8--sku657300033-9627-24152.aspx?cm_mmc=PPC-_-Itwine-_-Google-_-657-300-033&gclid=CjwKCAiA8OjjBRB4EiwAMZe6y-_yGZRSm5NmHXm5oy8A-TAi25m5Y1Dpwx8yLE72NBxnBgbgzCQxBhoCeOUQAvD_BwEafter wire wheel these types of tools can polish up weird surfaceshttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Robtec-5-in-Nylon-Abrasive-Wheel-Brush-500WNA/303124406?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CG%7CBase%7CD25T%7C25-7_POWER+TOOL+ACCESSORIES%7CNA%7CPLA%7c71700000034127227%7c58700003933021549%7c92700031755124871&gclid=CjwKCAiA8OjjBRB4EiwAMZe6yycM9xQfAr2IXum7ArGnTjbadwUOsOz28GyOJwAcrA8ySwR88R6KUhoCPO4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:43:37 pm
content: and thesehttps://www.amazon.com/Dremel-EZ473SA-220-Grit-Detail-Abrasive/dp/B002E9GUE0400 grithttps://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Shank-Abrasive-Wheel-Grinding/dp/B06XCSCMQZ600https://www.amazon.com/Abrasive-Polishing-Grinder-Grinding-Furniture/dp/B07DWLD5JJLooks like you can go to 1000 (1800 if you splurge for diamond) with these nylon impregnated brusheshttps://www.tanisbrush.com/pdf/cat-abrasive-brush.pdf

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:48:15 pm
content: Well gee, why didn't you just lead with that?Gonna definitely read through this, buy this stuff, and get right down to polishing myknobtools. Right after I build my gasketed dehumidified cabinets for those machinist tools that I (will maybe one day own and) have rust problems with. Can you tell us how your gasketed dehumidier cabinet is working out for you?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:50:09 pm
content: when I build it I will.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:51:48 pm
content: I never lead with it because even though my tools are in a unsealed non warmed garage thats not connected to the house I never had serious problems that anything more then 220 grit on the home depot dremel nylon wheels was not good enough for.I don't really understand what you mean by leading up ?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 11:53:16 pm
content: also what is your deal, did you ever look at the price of something like AA grade gauge blocks? It's totally worth the money to properly protect them.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 03:23:14 pm
content: The are levels of tools, and corresponding levels of care. If you can just throw a dehumidifier in the garage and keep it slightly above ambient temperature, that alone will do a lot to prevent most rust.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 03:56:08 pm
content: with what I got it makes more sense to hook up a power washer to a barrel of cosmoline