Help choosing a 1st multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 03:22:31 am
content: ...yes, another one of these posts, I know...I would like some input on choosing a multimeter. I want to get into electronics as a hobby. I have a background in physics, so I know basic circuitry and electricity (on paper). My criteria:* Fixing home devices from computer monitors to toasters.* Checking mains voltage (240AC) like cord extensions/splitters and wall sockets.* I don't think I really need true RMS.* I don't know how much I should care about counts and accuracy at this point.* Slight preference towards a separate V and mA connectors (the 4 connectors layout).* Slight preference towards a larger screen with good contrast.* Slight preference towards being able to test LEDs.* Temp measurement is a nice to have, but I can certainly live without it.I would like something safe that will last for long, until and if I need something more serious.My budget is around the 40-75 USD range. Because not everything is available for me (with reasonable shipping), I narrowed down my options to the list below and I focused on known safe brands. I posted some of the sources I looked at at the end if you care about my research (I was surprisingly satisfied looking at people opening and going through DMMs internals).Klein Tools1. MM400 - $402. MM420 - $60 (haven't seen almost any reviews on this model)3. MM600 - $67Extech5. EX330 - $425. EX350 - $506. EX503 - $59Amprobe7. AM-510 - $44There were some UNI-T models in the mix (61E, 139C, 191T...), but I read that some models have a falsified safety rating because some are in China and some are in the EU, and I just didn't want the headache of figuring out which is which and risk getting one that I would have to open to see if it's the right one and then return it if not.I also saw Eclipse models (MT-1710/1250...) and because I never came across them I'm somewhat curious where they stand.I know that all of the ones I listed got quite a few recommendations and are decent meters that will do the job overall. Do you think I should prefer some over others? Bang for buck? Something I missed? I don't mind spending the $25 diff from the lower to the higher range if it's worth it.Thanks!---------------Some links I looked at:*https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/*https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMReviews.html(same ashttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/technical-multimeter-review-and-tear-down-more-than-40/)*https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/kmy861/which_sub60_multimeter_for_general_household_and/*https://old.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/wiki/tools#wiki_multimeter*https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/wiki/equipment/multimeters*(MM400)*(MM600)*(EX330)

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 04:37:31 am
content: You might want to consider the Brymen BM231 which seems to tick most of your requirements and hovers around the top of your price range.Brymen can be difficult to source, check welectron.com or tme.eu

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 06:35:52 am
content: Something basic will do for now. I'd avoid off brand and cheapies- they're a false economy.You are right, most people don't need true RMS. It only works on sine waveforms anyway.Do you need traceable calibration? Again mostly not.Being safe matters. Shrouded terminals and good quality probes are a must. Check the CAT rating. You need CAT II as a minimum. HRC fusing on the current ranges is preferable.I'd read through a few manuals before you decide- a poor manual generally points to a poor meter.The second hand market is always worth a look. You could do a lot worse than a pre-owned Fluke 101.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 07:44:57 am
content: QuoteAs a hobbyist I find I use a multimeter most frequently for:- DC voltage- continuity testing- resistance- diode checkHaving a meter that has fast and accurate continuity testing is very helpful.QuoteDon't get the EX330. I have it. The autoranging is slow and continuity testing is unremarkable.When doing electrical work I generally avoid probing AC mains outlets with multimeters and use other tools such as non-contact voltage testers, outlet testers, clamp meters, Kill-A-Watt meter... to answer the question I have.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 10:21:32 am
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on December 28, 2022, 04:37:31 amDelivery alone is 40 Euros and $25 respectively in these 2 stores. I couldn't find it for less than $100, even used models are not available.

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 10:48:46 am
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on December 28, 2022, 06:35:52 amNot clear what that is supposed to mean. True RMS works on all waveforms. It is meters which are not true RMS that give correct readings only on sine waveforms.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 11:05:29 am
content: With modern DMMs the true RMS feature is not longer that expensive. Even rather cheap ones can come with true RMS, though often with a limited bandwidth (e.g. 1 kHz).At the low price end one kind of has the choice of low BW true RMS and often somewhat larger BW simple rectifiers. It depends on the application which is better suited.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 12:40:01 pm
content: For the mentioned tasks, you probably will rarely have to use Amps measurement, so the emphasis would be on reliable Volts measurements. For electronics, also diode test and some capacitor checks.Safety-wise, if you work on mains voltage, you should look for a CAT III 600V rating, AND for probes that are CAT III, meaning short exposed tips.Everything else is CAT II territory, where any good quality gear will do. Uni-T 139 would come to mind, but those are reported to be a bit sensitive to misuse like getting voltage when in Ohms mode... Otherwise it should be fine. For probing mains (especially for the absence of voltage) a multimeter should not be used, only a 2-pole voltage tester like a Fluke T110 or german brand Duspol (Benning).Measuring-wise, some sweet spot regarding costs is 6000 counts, but more important IMHO is the base accuracy of a meter- I have some old Fluke 8020 here, that has "only" 2000 counts resolution, but 0.3% base DCV accuracy, and still is within spec after 40 years- way better than some cheap new meters, that sometimes have less than 0.5% accuracy...So, base DCV accuracy should be 0.5% or less, and counts more than 2000.Important for testing LED: you will have to look at the voltage for diode test, here have lots of budget meters differences. To make a LED light up, you need a multimeter that can test diodes with at least 2V, better 3V- the latter mostly means more expensive gear. Some cheap meters only can use 1V, which is ok to test normal diodes, but would not make a LED light up.A colleague at work has been provided with the Amprobe-510 and is not unhappy with it, but also had basic needs.For a begin, it should be sufficient, and then there is one rule: You can not have enough multimeters, and they tend to reproduce. Means: in the foreseeable future, you will look for another one, and then you probably know which features you need, that the existing meter does not have.Question here: What about used gear, like a Fluke 77 series etc. in good condition?

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 12:41:47 pm
content: Mostly RMS is used for mains voltage and voltages derived from mains by transformers in power supplies.Of course the freq of these voltages is 60 Hz. In switching PS freq is much higher but usually measured by another type of instrument.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 12:49:44 pm
content: The OP doesn't require much so the priority is for a DMM that is safe for 240VAC mains which is the highest voltage the OP would want to use it for (if I am not mistaken). I don't trust non contact voltage tester. Before I touch something I would check it with the DMM.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 01:40:21 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on December 28, 2022, 12:49:44 pmI also don't. Therefore I wrote that you probe with a2-pole voltage testerif you want to make sure if it is safe to work.In my bag there is this one:https://www.benning.de/products-us/testing-measuring-and-safety-equipment/test-equipment-voltage-tester/voltage-tester-duspol.html(I have the expert version)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 03:19:45 pm
content: For my first "good" DMM, I went with a used Fluke, an 87-III I found on ebay for a reasonable price. No regrets at all.

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 03:28:51 pm
content: If you're on a very thin budget check out the Aneng an8009 on ali. Perfectly fits you specs.It will measure 240V mains just fine. Of course safety wise there is better out there. As long as you understand that this safety is as much about 'know, understand and double check what you're doing' as it is about the brand of the meter you'll be fine.Elon would blowup even a Fluke within seconds if you see what I mean.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 03:51:04 pm
content: Without doing a lot of thinking about it, I'd probably go for the Amprobe model. The feature set looks OK and it likely won't be a POS. For $44 you are getting a basic meter that will probably work OK for some time. You're right about not needing TRMS at this point.The Klein models are likely OK as well, but I personally would avoid any Extech models (rebadged CEM, I believe). Youtube reviews are fairly dubious sources of information.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 03:54:07 pm
content: I bought this cheap ($26) meter through Amazon and keep it at my desk:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NAVAT9S?th=1I don't know if they are telling the truth about the safety and accuracy specs, but it certainly works well enough for my basic needs (V/A/Ohms/diode/continuity) and the few times I've compared the readings with my Fluke meters it's been on-target.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 04:03:02 pm
content: oh boy another ....pls just grab an fluke 83 serie 1 to 3, or an 87 serie 1 to 3, it will be a good investment for a long time if you find a clean oneEven some brymen have goos specs vs price

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 04:46:07 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on December 28, 2022, 12:40:01 pmDidn't find anything reasonable. Shipping alone is like $30 on Ebay.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 04:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on December 28, 2022, 12:49:44 pmYes, no more than 240V mains.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 05:05:26 pm
content: The Amprobe (if real and not a fake copy - the price looks somewhat suspicous low) should be OK.It still has a weak point: the DC resolution in the lowest range is only 1 mV - even the cheap ones usually offer 0.1 mV resolution.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 06:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: Zico on December 28, 2022, 10:21:32 amTry tme.com:https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/bm231/car-multimeters/brymen/When I set the country to Israel I get a price of $75 USD or 70 Euro. And the “Standard delivery - air transport” shipping is quoted as $10 USD for up to 5 Kg.However I am actually visiting the site from the US, so I can certainly imagine that you might see different info regardless of me manually setting a different location.My understanding is that Brymen meters have safety features in the same class as Fluke.Edit: just to point out something that might surprise about the BM231: it does not have capacitance measurement. That wasn’t in your requirements, but it might still come as a surprise. It also doesn’t have frequency measurement.

author: Pfriemler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 08:01:06 pm
content: UT-139 does not like more than 30V in frequency mode. It will die at mains voltage. This is really unexpected.Used DMM (in good condition) are not that easy to find, esp. in Germany. Had a bunch of cheap Chinese new from A..n and found them surprisingly good for the money, even with specs. If you blow them to white smoke, you just get the next :-)But:With 240 VAC, first of all you should know what to do with all brain needed. As a professional you might wanna rely on your Duspol to save your life. If you have a 240V available to check your DMM is ok immediatly before you probe your circuit, there's no need for a Duspol imho.And:If you are not lucky to grab a good used DMM as recommend here, never trust a 20$ DMM until you get a pair of good probes in addition (which are never cheaper). Good and safe cables are much more important than the CATegory of the DMM.jm2c

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 08:12:46 pm
content: Good points also.Regarding Duspol et. al: If all the work on voltages >60V can be done with a budget 2pole voltage tester, the DMM does not need to have beefy input protection suited for a mains cabinet.And for the budget mentioned, it might also fit both. I bought a Voltcraft branded tester for less than 20 Euros some weeks ago, that will be deposited at my moms place, because I do not like to carry much tools with me when visiting...The DMM can then be the usual suspect in the budget range, like Uni-T, Aneng, or what names in the relabelling brands produce that is no utter crap.(In germany Voltcraft and Peaktech spring to mind- budget stuff that is not that bad, but definitely a different class than the A brands)

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 08:28:37 pm
content: I have never use a Duspol or similar voltage testers. I fail to see their usefulness.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 08:39:56 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on December 28, 2022, 08:28:37 pmIn germany, when you are working according to VDE standards/code, due to safety reasons regarding mains voltage/cabinets, probing for absence of voltage to guarantee safe working shall not be done with a DMM, because there are many ways of messing up. (Like having the test leads in Amps input etc.)Of course a DMM can do this test, but a combination of a "Duspol" clone would eventually eliminate the need for a DMM to be used on mains voltage like outlets etc.- then the DMM itself would nly be used for electronics and could be any el cheapo thing.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 02:54:10 am
content: If you are buying a low end DMM in my opinion it really doesn't matter all that much which one you buy. Frankly the hardware store meters are not that bad. If you live in the USA the orange box will have several low end meters sitting on a shelf or hanging on a wall. If you don't want to go that way the big online electronics suppliers will have hundreds of meters to choose from.Now this assumes you are just getting into electronics and will avoid high voltage, or high current work. If you have the intention of working on higher voltage systems it pays to spend a little more money and get a CAT rated meter from a reputable manufacture.Finally the last meter I purchased came from EEVBlog simply to support this web site. If your budget allows it is something I highly recommend. This is a site is a great resource for anybody involved in electronics at almost any level.

author: OutThere
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 03:41:14 pm
content: go to Aliexpress they have some really nice DVM's even ones with a 5mghz o'scope for cheap. i might take a month to get it though.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 03:53:01 pm
content: My recommendation would be any "no brand" one from a good electronics supplier (RS, Farnell, Mouser, Digikey...), NOT a no-brand from amazon, ebay, a Chinese discount supplier or a high street DIY store.I'd suggest having autoranging, ideally with an option to switch to manual ranging if you need it.You didn't mention in your initial post, but having ohms measurement is extremely useful, as well as continuity bleeping on this setting. And a capacitance measure can be useful too, although not often hugely accurate, it still helsp check what order of magnitude capacitances in a circuit are (capacitors in anything you are repairing are usually not labelled the way SMD resistors sometimes are, you have to measure them).I find myself using ohms far more often than anything else, volts sometimes and amps only pretty rarely.The price range will probably be £40 to £70 or so.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 04:57:58 pm
content: Quote from: wasedadoc on December 28, 2022, 10:48:46 amExactly. The ability to correctly give the RMS value of non-sinusoidal waveforms is precisely what sets true RMS meters apart from the others (they’re called “average-responding” meters, by the way).

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 09:56:57 pm
content: If you are starting in electronics, you will not stop at one multimeter.Very soon, you will feel the need for a second one. So dont think that you are buying the device of your life.My advice is too buy a cheap multimeter like this one (Aneng AN8008) which is listed for 24 $https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001360039.htmlThis is a very good multimeter with 9999 counts and all you need to do electronics.You can see numerous reviews on Youtube.You can test main voltage with it, but I would not advise to measure main current.But you can consider it as your first meter, and it will last you a long time, even if afterwards you buy a second one, you will still use this one, as it as also the advantage to be small.EEvblog review :

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2022, 11:13:54 pm
content: You might also consider something like a Fluke 8050 (bench) or 8060 (handheld). You would be able to get a working and tested one in the price range you are looking. I know others object to these oldies, but they can last forever and are good, solidly build 4.5 digit meters.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 02:39:33 am
content: As recently as ten years ago, perhaps five I would have wanted a VOM/multimeter that provided things like capacitance and transistor checking. But today there are very inexpensive component checkers that do a fairly good job of checking resistors, capacitors, inductors, transistors, diodes, and often other individual components. You don't even need to tell them what kind of component is being tested, just hook it up and push the button and read the results. After I tried one, I purchased a second one for my other electronic workbench. They only cost around 15 or 20 USD. And I haven't seen them fail yet.I am also looking for a new DMM but am concentrating on the ranges available and the accuracy, not the component checking ability. The only exception to that is the resistance scales which I still believe will be very useful.Quote from: Infraviolet on December 30, 2022, 03:53:01 pm

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:01:45 am
content: Much is said here about true RMS. Here is my take on that.I worked as a full time, professional in the electronics field for over 45 years and do more work now in my retirement. My work included routing maintenance, repairs, and design and construction. In all of that time I never once had an actual need for a true RMS measurement. Perhaps it may have been nice to know on a very few occasions, but it almost never even entered my mind. When I needed a better understanding of what was going on in a wire or cable, I reached for an oscilloscope. It was that simple:an average reading VOM or a scope.My advice is, unless you have a definite and KNOWN need for true RMS measurements, do not worry about that feature in a meter. Other features are much more important from a practical use point of view. Accuracy, a fast acting analog like scale, auto-ranging, ease of use, safety, the number of features, and even ruggedness are far more important in my humble opinion.As for the current emphasis on "true RMS" measurements I can only speculate that with the constant improvements in digital ICs, a much less expensive method has come into common use and the manufacturers are making the most of it. But it is strange that I do not see any of them talking about the uses of that feature.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:10:19 am
content: In USA Harbour freight has a red DVM, basic but many nice features, pitfalls is just 2 ACV ranges...$5..7 ,sometimes free with a coupon and other purchasesGot 10, give as gifts, for travel, etcJon

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:36:54 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on December 31, 2022, 03:10:19 amFrench humor JP?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 06:57:57 am
content: Quote from: JacquesBBB on December 30, 2022, 09:56:57 pmDon't. The probe sockets on this gizmo are absolute garbage. Made from paper thin metal and do not make reliable contact with the probes.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 11:00:54 am
content: BillyO: No joke, bought these over the years for $0, 2..3..5.Often as a loss leader on a coupon.Not a Fluke 87V but for 90% of non critical work its fine...or gifts!Loose it, break it no loss!A rel cheapo for USA beginners!Downside: Yes chepie leads/connectors, ONLY two ACV ranges , 200 and 250V for mains.The transistor checker is funAmicalment!Jon

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 11:30:05 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on December 31, 2022, 03:10:19 amI have a few over the years. They never last all that long.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 01:55:38 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on December 31, 2022, 11:00:54 amThe newer ones are marked this way and they have reduced the already paltry protection that the meters have, but they will happily (but not accurately) read voltages much higher than that. I've had mine up to 1500VDC and 1100VAC without a hint of protest. Just don't do it for too long as I'm sure the tiny voltage divider gets warm pretty quick.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:31:07 pm
content: From what I'm reading here, I'm thinking of actually getting different devices for different tasks instead of one that does it all. If I can get one thing that is safe for mains to test voltage at the wall / extension cable, one thing to test components as EPAIII suggested here, and a more specialized DMM, it might be a way to go.QuoteDo you have some recommendations for components checkers? And what DMMs would complement them considering that it doesn't need to do these tasks anymore?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 03:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on December 31, 2022, 03:01:45 amWhile I agree that TRMS isn’t necessarily that important for most purposes, almost any multimeter that is decent in all of the important things you mention is going to be TRMS these days.As for how they do it: I doubt it was ever all that expensive to implement once the TRMS converter chips came out. Manufacturers just charged more for it because they could, as a differentiating feature.Heck, the Fluke 83V (average-responding sibling of the TRMS 87V) actually still contains the TRMS converter chip, probably as signal conditioning or something. It’s literally one single capacitor (and a calibration) away from having TRMS.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 04:15:43 pm
content: This stuff (and as a similar example the Fluke 175, which only is one backlit display and formally lesser accuracy away from the 177) is done to cater to two major points:- to be able to sell meters which slightly fail the specs of the top model, as rework would probably more expensive- to be able to have a model at lower cost for cost-conscious buyers AND to be able to claim something around the lines of "We can give you that price because you do not have the top notch features of the top model"Honestly, the 0.15 % DCV accuracy of the Fluke 175 against the 0.09% off the 177 and 179 is... only marginally worse, considering it is a 6000 count DMM.As the LED is equipped in most PCB revisions, I also actively thought of getting myself a 175 as a second DMM and then get the keyboard map as a spare part for about 20 bucks and mod it.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2022, 04:29:45 pm
content: Quote from: JacquesBBB on December 30, 2022, 09:56:57 pmIn this usage scenario, I would also expect this to be a valid reasioning. Heck, as I started to get going in electronics for hobby use about 3 years ago to build my home bench, i started with one used handheld DMM from ebay- now I have 5 DMMs here (working condition...) and well, the stuff seems tp reciprocate...For a first DMM, to get the feet wet, I also would say that TrueRMS is nice, but no dealbreaker. In most cases when repairing things it is important to know THAT voltage is there, but not exactly how the waveform runs.So some budget version of decent quality is usually sufficient, and with my knowledge of today I also considered buying a 50€$ DMM as a secondary handheld in addition to the stuff and bench DMMs I already have.My looks went to the Uni-T 139C, which would cover most of my use cases except hard work at mains voltage distributions- here I have different equipment available.Otherwise, even when repairing household appliances, usually you do NOT measure current directly with the multimeter, only check voltages. And then the often mentioned flimsy 250V glass fuse as protection for the Amps input becomes quite irrelevant.Yes, you have to know what you are doing (and more important: what not to do and how to have some standard procedures while working), but apart from that these devices are quite capable for doing electronic work.Usage in the industrty for electrical work is a very different field with other requirements.So, as the Amprobe 510 was mentioned, it also would IMHO fit the bill as a first DMM, simply to begin with. And with experience (and hopefully some saved money due to the repairs being done) a second meter or more specialized stuff like a clampmeter or probes will follow soon.Questin for the OP: From which shops are you being able to order that charge decent shipping costs?

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 12:54:01 am
content: QuoteAmazon offers free shipping on orders above $50 (though even if it's less I can add another item I will need anyway so I will get free shipping).That's where I found the Klein Toolshttps://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-Auto-Ranging-Klein-Tools-MM600/dp/B018CLOSTCand the other models.This store offers free shipping for orders above $25:https://www.testingster.com/testing-inspection-instruments/electrical-power-testing/multimeters/?min_price=30&max_price=80&orderby=priceThis shop has the Amprobe and some Extechs at good prices I believe.Ebay and AliExpress shipping varies a lot as it's per item basis, but there could be good things there.In any case, I can't go over $75 (inc. shipping) because then import taxes kick in and everything becomes a lot more expensive. Even a $75 purchase becomes $90 right off the bat.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 01:31:06 am
content: For the testingster store you linked, I would suspect fraud. Selling actual Fluke DMMs for a third of the price is... questionable.At amazon, putting israel as receiver, I get only a few brand names that I would recognize, some of them are clearly relabellers like Aneng or Kaiweets.Good bets in the sub-75$ range are IMHO: Fluke 101 (but no Amp measurements), Uni-T 139 B or C, Uni-T 61B+For beginning, the Fluke has a proven track record being safe and reliable, if you are a bit more into features (and do not do Amps measurements at mains voltages) a Uni-T meter could also be some nice tool to begin. Other forum members should have some hands-on experience on those. And the difference to the import limit might be invested in better test leads or hooks etc. that help with working.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:30:13 am
content: Does UAE ship to Israel?If so, shipping might be cheaper than to my location and the Greenlee DM-200A is a Brymen BM251 and of quite decent quality.eBay auction: #285033915626

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 09:32:53 am
content: There seems to be some confusion with respect for the need for a True RMS capability. The short here is to get it if you can find a meter in the right price range.The long can get really deep but some comments:The reality is that documentation created today is often assuming that you will have TRMS meter.The quality of the RMS converter varies widely and can be important in some cases.It doesn't cost a lot these days to get a meter with TRMS and frankly it is more valuable to me than some of the half assed component testing features. In other words I value TRMS higher than component testing features, with the exception of resistance testing.There are features that you should consider higher than TRMS in my opinion. One is a back lit display. If you intend to work on high voltage systems a properly CAT rated meter should be considered mandatory. People might laugh at the back light but it can be a life saver in the field. I'd even go retro with an LED screen if back lit meter can't be found reasonably.Best of luck with this purchase.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:17:23 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 01, 2023, 02:30:13 amIt does ship, but US$70.00 shipping while the DMM is $60. Shipping being between half of what the product costs to more than what it costs is common and is the greatest barrier here to order from abroad.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on January 01, 2023, 01:31:06 amI think that you are right about testingster being a scam.Fluke 101 I can get, but I read that they are more expensive than thier real value. Someone else also said that I only rarely need Amps measurement, so I don't mind not having it.I know that Klein Tools are good (I posted some reviews to them) and are available on Amazon at a decent price, like the MM600.About UNI-T, as I wrote in the opening comment, I read that they lie about their safety sometimes and it depends if the meter comes from China or from Europe. So the same model can be 2 different devices and I don't know how to verify what I get.For example. this doesn't look right:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32426172140.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2isrThe 61B+ is available on Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Digital-Multimeter-Resistance-Capacitance/dp/B08NPDVR6Z/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1B3R7CFOHUYE6&keywords=Uni-T%2B139C&qid=1672583041&refinements=p_n_is_free_shipping%3A10236242011&rnid=10236241011&sprefix=uni-t%2B139c%2Caps%2C244&sr=8-1&th=1

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:48:39 pm
content: Fluke delivers in fact some value for the money they cost- I worked years with the Fluke 179 in an industrial environment and was quite happy about this.But: For home and hobby use you usually do not need the features from a Fluke you pay the big money for, at least not for their top-of-the-line models like the 170 series or the 87V.On amazon, the Fluke 101 is available for 44$, so very well in the price range- and Fluke is reliable with no worries about fake CAT ratings etc.

author: py-bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 02:53:46 pm
content: This has hopefully been said but I wont ever stop preaching it:make sure it's fused(if it can measure current) - otherwise you can't really go wrong and pick a "bad" one.Before someone points it out, you can pick ones out that are bad for the task at hand, but that doesn't make your choice an inherently bad multimeter, just the wrong tool for the job!I also like backlights, but yeah make sure it's fused.I routinely have things I do where they sit out on a desk for many 10s of minutes/hours and I look at the screens, one for voltage one for current. I bought separately coloured ones to reduce chances of a mixup, but armed with a fuse even if I did mix them up nothingtoobad should happen.I've got like 7 stories where fuses saved the day with stuff I have personally been doing Or where fuses stopped the day being totally ruined anyway!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 04:00:11 pm
content: Quote from: Zico on January 01, 2023, 02:17:23 pmI am sorry to hear that. I know too well your predicament (my home country of Brazil was not different).Quote from: jonpaul on December 31, 2022, 11:00:54 amJon has a point on the "M830B" multimeters - they are very cheap and can get the simpler low voltage jobs quite well. They are excellent second meters. Recently on my channel I did a HV test on a more robust and third party certified clone that held up reasonably well when 280VAC were applied throughout its inputs (including resistance, continuity and diode).The brand is Hyper tough EM830 (sold in Walmart stores in the US) and is built by All-Sun.Same downsides mentioned by Jon, except the transistor tester (this model does not have one). Ah, and the fuses are 300V and 1.5kA interrupt current rated.As for the other suggestions, the UT139C is a good meter, as well as the UT61E - for this family the last letter matters a lot, having huge differences innprice and features between the B, C, D and E variants.I yend to prefer the older (non-safe) UT61E non-plus, as to me it has better overall features for electronics.Good luck in your search!

author: Andrew Morton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 04:37:16 pm
content: Can you get a Brymen BM257s at a reasonable price?Proper fusing, non-smelly bumper, decent gold-plated probes.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:10:15 pm
content: Quote from: Andrew Morton on January 01, 2023, 04:37:16 pmNo, I tried before posting even and looked again after it was already suggested a couple of times here.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:12:22 pm
content: The Klein 600 is properly fused, which is why I put it on my list in the initial post. It's the UNI-T ones that I don't know if they are fused or not because of the separate Chinese and EU models that are not listed separately in stores, at least as far as I can tell. I will not buy something that doesn't have proper protection.

author: bidrohini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 10:21:42 am
content: My first was Sanwa CD800A Digital Multimeter. It was good and long-lasting.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 11:52:29 am
content: Quote from: Zico on January 01, 2023, 10:12:22 pmThe EU models should have a lower, but valid (or at least close to) CAT rating. The other difference is usually an additional GS or similar lable for a testing lab. This may be visible on photos - though there is a chance that the pictures do not show the parts they actually sell. The CAT rating is normally also in the description.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 05:29:55 am
content: Ordered a UTC139 (branded as UTM 1139C) from China. The seller says it has the CE certification symbol and so do the pics he sent me show, though I doubt anything is stopping the manufacturer from just stamping it like that. Let's see what arrives.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 06:42:10 pm
content: Quote from: Zico on January 10, 2023, 05:29:55 amCE is "self certified" - basically it's the manufacturer saying they think it's OK to sell the device in the EU. So don't put much (if any) trust into a product's safety based only on that symbol.Dave did a video a while back, and while I'm by no means a certification expert I think the info in the video is pretty much spot on:-If you really want some assurance about the safety of a device (multimeter or otherwise), I'd look for a mark from a nationally recognized test lab (UL, ETL, CSA, TUV, etc.). But still be aware that some manufacturers will just copy/paste a symbol onto a product. I'm honestly not sure how widespread that kind of fraud is; hopefully not too much.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 09:55:36 pm
content: Well, Dave speaks on that video about the China Export mark, but I think it's worth to put it here, just in case somebody skips watching the videoFrom (in spanish)https://www.elperiodico.com/es/extra/20160916/china-export-ce-logo-5376788"For some decades now we have become accustomed to seeing the CE mark (for 'Conformité Européene', in French) on a large number of products, something that consumers and small distributors usually leave calm because we think that what we have just bought meets minimum quality standards and complies with European directives. However, in recent years a usurper logo of this brand has appeared, which coincidentally also bears the letters 'CE' and looks suspiciously similar, but does not indicate anything other than the classic 'Made in China'.Appearing on many toys, household appliances, various machinery, computer hardware, personal protective equipment such as sunglasses, helmets and life jackets, and small electronics, this upstart symbol stands for 'China Export', and uses the initials to compose an almost Exactly the one that endorses products that do comply with European regulations. According to the European Commission, the letters 'CE' "mean that products sold in the European Economic Area (EEA) have been evaluated to meet high safety, health and environmental protection requirements (...). By affixing the CE marking to a product, the manufacturer declares that the product meets all legal requirements for CE marking and can be sold throughout the EEA."See attachment to know the differences between "Certification Europeenne" and "China Export" logos.That said, a friend of me that makes lawnmowers tried to get that certification and while (as Dave says) it could be easy to just put that mark, should there be an accident after that, he could quite surely get his ass handed to him. To be sure, he should go through independent testing, etc. That could be easy but certainly isn't cheap

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 06:59:57 pm
content: QuoteThat's pretty funny, in a bad way. Good to know. Still, even if it's the Certification Europeenne symbol, like the comment above you and mine above it said, the manufacturer could just stamp it anyway.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 07:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on January 10, 2023, 06:42:10 pmI was pretty sure it had to pass checks. In any case, like I said above, I'm aware that anyone can just put that symbol there and the EU is not going to go after them.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 07:19:01 pm
content: I remain unconvinced that the “China Export” thing is anything but an urban legend. There’s no real evidence for its existence, and real evidence that it’s simply a graphically malformed attempt at the CE logo — whether of legitimate or fake intent.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2023, 08:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: Zico on January 11, 2023, 07:02:04 pmThe CE sign only says, that the manufacturer or importer claims that the products follows the EU rules. Depending on the product the rules (standards) for that type of product can require tests and other certification. Other products can get away without. In most cases it requires an instruction manual that gives more details, like the standards followed and who actually claims compliance.Not actually following all the complicated rules can be just negligence or just ignorance intentionally not taking it serious.

author: Watth
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 02:43:39 pm
content: My €0.02: check the type of batteries it needs, because not everybody has spare 9V batteries at home, while it's more common to have AA or AAA already available when you discover your DMM batteries are dead.As other said, renouned vendors (RS, Farnell, etc.) have affordable DMM of their own brands, that could be suitable for your needs.

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 04:11:48 pm
content: If you just need a basic Volts, Amps, Ohms, Diode and continuity meter that is CAT III TUV certified look out for the Parkside PDM 300 auto ranging DMM that Lidl have in their special buy section every so often. They also appear on ebay for around 15 to 20 GBP or equivalent.Manualhttps://stesbintegrationprod.blob.core.windows.net/public/articlemanual/b6959e95-91da-4ce7-9a9a-d5bfccf312af.pdfhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364108528863?

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 05:17:17 pm
content: My UT-139C arrived a couple of weeks ago. I opened it up and it matches the board inhttps://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMUNI-T%20UT139C%20UK.html,including the same fuses. I did a quick test on the temp sensor, VFC and voltage measurement it looks fine.I ordered fromhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/141493011667.For 39USD with free fast shipping (FedEx), this seems like a really good deal for this meter.It cam with the leads and temp sensor. A manufacturer card in Chinese and a manual completely in Chinese. I found one online in English.

author: Zico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 05:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: wasedadoc on January 21, 2023, 04:11:48 pmThe shipping is £22.42 for the £12 meter

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 06:13:44 pm
content: Quote from: Zico on January 27, 2023, 05:18:55 pmYeah, western couriers are the joy of life.I became addicted to AliExpress Standard shipping and his cousins. If it's only available via FedEx, UPS, DHL,et al, the probability of me buying that thing is near zeroEdit: typo