Ideas for an old Amstrad 8086 XT Clone? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 04:36:37 am
content: I've recently acquired an old Amstrad PC1512 Model 2 to add to my vintage computing collection. For those of you not familiar with this particular unit, it was among the first machines to be hardware compatible with the IBM XT. Specs are as follows:8086 CPU running at8MHzCame standard with 512KB RAM (mine has the full640KB)CGA Graphics on-boardDual 5.25" Double Density (360KB) floppy disk drives3x 8-bit ISA SlotsI've also managed to acquire an old Western Digital FileCard 30 hard disk drive for it (see attached photos). Hard disks were an option on the PC1512's and since there is no controller on-board, this was the solution. It's still in the post so I haven't got to play with it yet.The question I have is, what to do with it? I was born in the 1980's so my recollection of computing and software at the time is pretty much non-existent. If the hard disk works, I plan on installing Windows on it (probably version 2.03). What other software was common back in the day? I'm thinking WordStar, Q&A, Commander Keen...Also, if anyone happens to have an 8-bit ISA Ethernet Adapter they are willing to part with, I'd love to put it to use in this machine!By the way Dave: What do you think about the idea of creating a forum dedicated to vintage electronics/computing?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 05:11:33 am
content: Ah, I've got a 1640DD (with some mods) -- 32MB HD, 8087 math co, 128k EGA!I rarely touch it anymore, save to give it a spin once in a while. But back in the day, I wrote QB programs on it and stuff.Tim

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 05:18:33 am
content: Windows will not run on anything lower than a 286 processor, as there is no MMU. You will be using dos most likely. Find an old copy of Norton Commander and you get a quite nice text based file manager, and some useful utilities as well for the system and disk utilities.I will have to check, I might still have a 16 bit ISA ethernet card or two floating around, as I kept those for the isolated converters they used for driving the coax interface.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 05:36:45 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 30, 2014, 05:18:33 amWindows 2.0 ran quite happily on XT hardware. Windows 2.1x was split into what at the time were called Windows/286 (which ran on XT & AT hardware) and Windows/386 (which required at least a 386).I used to have some old Win1.1, Win2.0, & Win/286 disks around somewhere... wonder if I've still got them?Didn't the 'strad come with GEM or DESQview or something? That'd be interesting enough in its own right.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 06:21:43 am
content: GEM, yes. Ugly as sin, but a graphical DOSSHELL (basically).I've ran Windows 3.0 (real mode) on mine -- not that there's much point, of course!Tim

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 06:43:15 am
content: Quote from: Tac Eht Xilef on August 30, 2014, 05:36:45 amYes it came with GEM. I have a copy of the disks but I'm yet to try them out. You might be right though, in order to preserve originality, I might take a closer look at GEM over Windows. I'm not sure too many applications will run on Windows 1/2.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2014, 01:20:08 pm
content: You should be able to play videos on it:http://trixter.oldskool.org/2014/06/17/8088-domination/http://x86dc.wordpress.com/

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 06:04:52 pm
content: Make an add on card with a Raspberry Pi or similar on it. Design it in such a way that it can be reverted to original very easily.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 04:53:45 am
content: Quote from: n45048 on August 30, 2014, 04:36:37 amn45048 ,I do have one for 16 bit ISA slots. It is very clean and in good shape visually, but I am not sure if it works. I have no driver. The chip has an Intel sticker 1996, so it was probably pulled from a 80386 machine and not a 8086.Since you are a supporter on this forum that I so enjoy, If you are willing to pay shipping (from the USA), I will part with it. PM me, I will take some pictures of the card for you so you can first do some research on if that would run on a 8086. I suspect any driver you found would be 80386 as it is dated 1996.Rick

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 05:08:38 pm
content: Sorry, only ones I have are PCI ones, and the only ISA ones are a load of old video cards. Will look to see if I have any more around, seem to remember some still being in a box somewhere.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 06:58:46 pm
content: Windows 2.03 should run on it. Amstrad included it with their 2086 XT. Does your 1512 have an internal fan, I think the origional ones did not, but they were forced to add one due to overheating problems.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 08:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on September 01, 2014, 06:58:46 pmNo, they weren't - they were forced to add a fan because the competition (which all had big PSUs in the system unit, unlike the Amstrads) convinced people it would be unreliable without one - FUD in action! My PC1512 doesn't have one and never gave a lick of trouble; my PC1640 had one, but I ended up disconnecting it when I powered it up recently because it was buggered and made anawfulracket.(The PC1512/1640 are a bit weird in that the PSU is built into the monitor, which supplies power to the system unit - that way, the PSU electronics are in a relatively large airy space and cooled by convection. The downside is that if you want to upgrade the graphics, you need to keep the old monitor around…)One similar rumour thatwasn'tFUD was that the monitor could interfere with hard cards, like the one in the OP - I had no end of trouble with a Dysan model, which would randomly fail to locate sectors after much churning. Eventually I discovered that tilting the monitor forward a bit from the fully-back position fixed that right up, so that's something to be aware of; however, I believe later revisions included a metal ground shield inside the removable lid over the expansion slots, which might also address the problem.Windows should run up to version 3.0 (which was the last version to support real mode), although one advantage the supplied GEM system will probably have over Windows (and most other graphical software of the era) is that it supports the 1512's weird '16-colour CGA' mode - 640x200x16 - which wasn't compatible with the EGA mode of the same specification. I don't remember ever seeing a PC1512 driver for Windows, but there might be one somewhere I guess...If you wanted to update the supplied GEM/2 to the last DRI release, GEM/3, or the later GPLed versions such as FreeGEM (which restored functionality DRI had to remove after the Apple lawsuit), the driver is AMSTRAD.SYS in the GEMSYS directory on Disc 2 - but since the newer versions don't use ASSIGN.SYS to map devices to drivers, it needs to be renamed to something starting with SD before it'll be recognised. Alternatively John Elliott rebuilt it to conform to the later driver specification - seehttp://www.seasip.info/Gem/Drivers/video.html- or his pages about the 1512/1640 athttp://www.seasip.info/AmstradXT/.Cliff Lawson also had some pages about the Amstrad machines, but since Murdoch's lot closed UK Online down they have to be found through the Wayback Machine athttp://web.archive.org/web/20100111065846/http://web.ukonline.co.uk/cliff.lawson/.Finally, if I remember in a couple of weeks when I get some long-delayed time off, I'll have a ferret through the boxes of accumulated Fine Old Hardware in the garage and see if I can dig out a spare 3Com EtherLink II - I don't want to give up the one I have in my 1512 at the moment, but there might be another floating around somewhere if it wouldn't be extortionately expensive to post.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 08:39:16 pm
content: Most but not all 16 bit ISA cards will work in an 8 bit slot with the end hanging out.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 01:16:17 am
content: Funny, my 1640 has a ST238R stuck in the B: drive position -- with some heat damage visible, because guess what... no fan.The original owners didn't address this, but I gouged out some plastic to fit a ~70mm fan nearby; good enough.Tim

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 02:23:20 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on August 30, 2014, 05:11:33 amI have one of these old hds, but it's a seagate with the controler board in working condition, a video card cirrus logic, a us robotics modem, maybe some other stuff too, need to take a look

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 04:56:48 am
content: Thanks to everyone for their input and offers. I have a stack of 16-bit ISA cards so I'll try some of them in the 8-bit slot and see how I go.I'm still waiting for my hard disk to arrive.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 08:53:01 pm
content: I can't attach a photo in PM, so I will reply hereBesides, perhaps others can help you find a driver or share their experience on if this card is going to work.Again, I can give you thecard for free, but you will have to pay shipping from the USA. I have no drivers and I can't test it. (I know I pull it off a working system back then or I would not have saved it. Likely my very last ISA motherboard (Pentium) but it was disposed on some time ago. I can't test if it still works.)Whether it can work with a 8086 (or if it works at all) is anyone's guess...RickQuote from: n45048 on September 04, 2014, 05:21:22 amAttached are two photo...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:18:11 pm
content: What part number is on the chip?Tim

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:55:08 pm
content: Thanks for that Rick. I had a quick hunt around, drivers might be a bit tricky to find.I have about six or seven 16-bit cards already so I'll pass on your offer this time. Just after we spoke, I won an eBay auction of various old cards and in there was an 8-bit ISA NIC with a BNC jack so this might do the trick.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 01:01:36 am
content: What's up with that newfangled Ethernet stuff here? That puppy surely deserves better! That is, a nice ARCNET card! And maybe some NetWare server somewhere to connect to itGreetings,Chris

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 01:07:44 am
content: Quote from: mamalala on September 05, 2014, 01:01:36 amHahaha! You make a good point Chris! I was thinking along the lines of connecting it to my existing infrastructure but I do have a spare server sitting around.... hmm...

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 11:43:56 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on September 30, 2014, 10:07:12 am… but the random-polygons bit in the demo program generated the most fascinating sequence of high-pitched whines (I guess from the monitor but it's been a long time!)

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 08:38:53 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on September 30, 2014, 02:51:46 pmCould be - I wasn't sure if maybe I had imagined it (although I was fairly sure I hadn't), until a couple of years ago when my father happened to mention he could always tell if the machine was busy thinking about something because the pitch would change. Maybe our monitor was 'special'!QuoteYes, the 1512 had a special 16-colour CGA mode - there's an Amstrad-specific video register and corresponding BIOS call to change a bit mask representing which planes to write to in the normal 640x200x2 mode, as I recall. For the 1640 they dropped support for that mode and went with a video adapter that could be configured for EGA or Hercules using DIP switches.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 11:28:28 pm
content: Quote from: mamalala on September 05, 2014, 01:01:36 amAhhh Arcnet... bad memoriesI think I still have a bunch of 90 Ohm coax cables somewhere.With an ethernet card it should be possible to get Microsoft networking going and make a directory from a Windows machine accessible on that 286 (or vice versa).