Opinions on the HyperJuice 100W GaN USB Charger? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RobIII
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 01:32:19 am
content: Iused the search but couldn't find anythingon theHyperJuice 100W GaN USB Charger(which is on Kickstarter).It looks really promising, but don't they all? It claims to be "world's first [...] Gallium Nitride charger" and "[...] 95% AC/DC Efficiency (vs 91% for Apple/Anker)". It's expected to retail at $99. I have pledged $138 for 2 a few weeks ago and it's supposed to ship soon and I am curious to know what people think. I'll be glad to provide any findings and answer any questions once I receive them but please bear in mind I am a novice amateur electro-afficionado so I do have a cheap multimeter so don't expect fancy diagrams or scope reading or whatever.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 02:14:00 am
content: Looks like a decent price for a premium product, seems to use Kickstarter more for PR than to Kickstart ... but that's par for the course at this point.Assuming you're going to use it to charge a Macbook start with a simple hand test to compare temps.

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 12:49:47 pm
content: Heh, I see the GaN switch they are using has an integrated gate driver, neatly sidestepping one of the biggest headaches with this finicky new technology, which is the narrow gap between the threshold and max allowed voltages at the gate. That said, at$8.60 each in single quantities at Digikey, you can get a whole USB-C charger for the same price as the switch here. One question I'd ask the kickstarter team is how they plan on getting through EMC testing because they must be running at a screaming high switching frequency (I'm guessing close to 1MHz based on the power density).Coincidentally, I wrote an article for an EV trade magazine last year comparing GaN and SiC which is (mostly) still relevant:https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semiconductors-for-ev-power-converters/.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 08:57:55 pm
content: interesting insights into GaN!EMC filters get better with higher frequencies, but probably still a huge challenge here, space and BOM cost is very limited here!Others manage to pass also :http://www.adaptertech.com.tw/series1.htmlperhaps they use a forward transformer with a good shield, and good separation...

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2020, 10:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: f4eru on January 24, 2020, 08:57:55 pmIt's probably apparent from the article that my experience with GaN has been less-than-positive, but another member here (blueskull) uses it a lot and, one assumes, productively. Then again, he might just be working with GaN to publish IEEE papers...Quote from: f4eru on January 24, 2020, 08:57:55 pmWeeelll, sort of. Parasitic inductance limits the upper bandwidth for capacitors and distributed capacitance does the same to inductors so attenuation does not keep rising with frequency in any practical low-pass filter.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 02:38:05 am
content: The relative bandwidth of a filter of given geometry is approximately constant. So, if you need to filter 100kHz-100MHz in a traditional design, you need to filter 2MHz-2GHz in a GaN design, and the filter is proportionally smaller and (hopefully) has the same relative bandwidth.This does assume you can miniaturize everything proportionally, i.e. instead of a 20mm long X2 film cap, you can use a 1mm long chip cap. Anything you can't shrink at the same rate, becomes that much more significant.Tim

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 05:09:19 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on January 27, 2020, 02:38:05 amWhich of course you can't. Electromagnetism scales nicely but pesky material properties don't. i.e., you don't get 10x electrical conductivity or 10x higher breakdown strength when you miniaturize.Quote from: MagicSmokerIt is hard with lumped element but distributed element / transmission line low-pass filters can be made with stop bands that extend arbitrarily high. But fair call on "practical"

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 11:37:17 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on January 27, 2020, 02:38:05 amPossibly - see below - but that's not what I was saying; rather, that the usual mains EMI filter design constrained to using safety-agency approved components won't provide ever-increasing attenuation with frequency.Quote from: T3sl4co1l on January 27, 2020, 02:38:05 amIs that 1mm chip cap UL (et al.) approved?

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 12:25:58 pm
content: Exactly.There are other ways to skin the cat -- use normal-mode filter chokes instead of safety-rated common mode; use potted chokes/assembly to eliminate creepage; or on the source side, prefer resonant topologies that generate less high frequency content in the first place; prefer balanced or shielded transformer designs; etc.It's hard to say if any of these options will generally save or cost space, though.Tim

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2020, 07:49:46 am
content: here are some datasheets on GaN chipshttps://www.navitassemi.com/download/I have 2 HyperJuice on order as well. Hyper products are usually OK but not quite up in the Anker quality class for small USB/PD/C chargers.But their customer service so far has been good and replaced the USB-C dock I got from them earlier.

author: RobIII
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 09:09:07 am
content: They finally came in yesterday. I have unpacked them but haven't used them yet. I'll do some (basic) testing soon and post the results here.For now,most reviewsappear to be quite positive; thekickstarter pageshows a bit of a different story:Quote from: Lucas KovácsQuote from: Tony NgQuote from: Daniel CreedonQuote from: Faris HassaniQuote from: Patrick PetitQuote from: Marcel BlijlevenQuote from: Dhruve ShahQuote from: EkbergQuote from: Carlos GarciaQuote from: Deep PatelQuote from: Oscar RugamaQuote from: Kiang Sorawit...and the list goes on for a while which is pretty... worrying.I'll try to get to testing my two chargers as soon as possible. All I can say now is that the chargers feel quite decent and the build quality appears to be good. The silkscreen is good, they feel light but solid, the plastic has a nice touch to it and the plug adapter fits nicely and snug. The power prongs extend with a nice and satisfying snappy click. That's all I can say for now.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 05:03:53 pm
content: Here's the teardown:http://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/51078.html

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 06:50:07 pm
content: Thanks for the link! High quality teardown. The build quality of the charger itself looks decent.It seems that the charger has no PFC. I am forgetting / having trouble looking up the standard, but I was under the impression that Europe and the US require power factor correction above some power level, and that that power level was something below 100W.Am I remembering incorrectly, or can this charger not be directly sold in the USA | Europe due to the lack of PFC?

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 08:59:41 pm
content: Good observation. I didn't even notice. The power threshold for PFC is 75W, from IEC61000-3-2. It has a CE mark so that can't be right.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 09:10:12 pm
content: No, there is no requirement of any certain type of PFC. There is a requirement for exceeding a certain power factor. How they achieve it, if they do, is a different question. Classical boost stage for active PFC correction isn't really the only possibility although it's quite good when the only objective is to get very near to unity PF under full load (which is a stupid goal, though!)

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 09:31:50 pm
content: There are a lot of sketchy things, first of all there are no markings about what standards the charger is compliant with, just an ETL and a VDE listing mark. Second, I searched the ETL listing and all combinations of the part number and the manufacturer name and the listing number on Intertek's website. They either faked the listing/certification, or it hasn't been published yet, or the search function is sketchy. I did find the TUV report where the charger was tested to IEC 62368-1, which seems to be just isolation/safety related with nothing about PFC requirements. So at least it won't shock you to deathIn any case at 200W+ input power it better have PFC to be legally sold (not that anyone would care IRL).. I also searched Sanho Corporation in the ETL directory and nothing came up.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 09:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 08, 2020, 09:10:12 pmSure, there are ways of achieving an acceptable power factor without a conventional PFC boost stage, like moving the twice line frequency energy storage to the secondary side. But if you look at the teardown almost all of their energy storage is on the primary side. Given that there are no signs of power processing between the bridge rectifier and the primary side capacitors its highly dubious that they are doing anything to manage the power factor.Are we sure the CE mark does not stand for China Export

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 10:12:04 pm
content: A CE (even if legit) mark is meaningless, look for a UL, VDE, or CTL listing. So far I found VDE's, but it has not been evaluated to all the correct standards, specifically not to the ones dealing with power factor.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 01:21:42 am
content: Thanks for taking the time to look up the certification stuff uer166.As a practical matter, what are the implications of this? Are they not allowed to sell the charger in the USA / Europe? Can the end consumer sue them (based on that document, Sanho Corporation is located in the USA)? I am still in academia land so I am not directly familiar with all the implications of regulatory compliance.

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 01:31:50 am
content: Consider how much garbage one can buy from Ebay/Amazon with a "China Export" mark as you said, and the fact that nobody has the time nor interest to enforce regulations. These guys at least tried and got some form 3rd party to look at their thing, (even if it's not all the right standards).As it is now it's heaps worse than any OEM charger, (say Apple or any other OEM), regulation-wise, but when 90% of Amazon has literally nothing to back up safety/performance claims, it's not too bad. If it gets big enough, their lack of PFC at 200-odd watts will get noticed, and since they're based in Fremont, maybe something will happenIf it turns out that CTL mark is indeed bogus (it's unclear as I said), then CTL will definitely be interested, that's the only sketchy aspect that might be actionable.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 05:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 08, 2020, 09:10:12 pmTrue. IEC61000-3-2 defines limits for harmonic currents drawn by the equipment, and does not mandate active PFC specifically. IEC61000-3-2 applies to equipment which draws between 75-600W, excluding Class C equipment (lighting). It's possible to have acceptable power factor/current harmonics at 100W without PFC, but it is unlikely without making some sacrifices in other areas.Interesting point about optimizing PF for the full load condition, given that typical power supply usage is probably 50-75% of its full load rating.

author: RobIII
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 06:11:04 pm
content: I have ab-so-lutely no clue as to what I'm doing (still learning with my brand spanking new Hanmatek DOS1102 cheap-o-scope) but for those interested; here's some 'measurements' I took with it from the HyperJuice :For comparison; this is the output from an Apple 12W charger:And the output from a USB port of my HP Z4:

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 11:39:52 am
content: is this under load ?

author: RobIII
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 02:10:12 am
content: Quote from: f4eru on January 09, 2021, 11:39:52 amAh, yes, I should've mentioned. Sorry. Yes, it's under load of charging a USB device (this oneto be exact but I don't think it matters). Why, do you notice something strange or not good? Or just curious? I also should've mentioned the left ones are using DC coupling and the right ones AC coupling. All 'measured' using a 10x probe. Again, I'm new to oscilloscopes and have no clue (well, at least not much) as to what I'm doing. If there's some specific setting or measurement you want me to do / try, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 07:26:30 pm
content: 180mV p-p is probably OK.But the strange thing to me is: 2,5 kHz ?that hint to a problem in the regulation loop, perhaps ?

author: RobIII
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 02:43:06 am
content: Quote from: f4eru on January 10, 2021, 07:26:30 pmThe Apple charger is 2.3kHz and my PC's USB port is 3kHz in the photos. So 2.5 seemed to be in the middle? What do you suppose itshouldbe?Thissays "typically 50 kHz – 1 MHz" but that would mean they're all 3 waaaaay off? I assume it's an error in my measuring method then?I just hooked up the ground lead to the black USB wire and the probe to the red USB wire (incidentally, this is a no-data USB cable, so no white/green wires, just power). And I did that kind-if mid wire... So I guess there's (part of) my mistake? It was just easiest to do this way without having to open (and most likely destroy) these chargers. They seem to be 'sonic welded' shut.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 09:10:36 pm
content: All my HyperJuices are going back for replacement (pending the replacement actually work)If you have a USB-C high current device attached - and have other "small current" devices connected - when the small devices get close to full or reach full charge - the HyperJuice will continuously try to re-adapt power load between the USB connectors. When it does that - the USB-C main connection is constantly connected and re-connected.So fx. an iPad with USB-C - will beep every 30-60 seconds as it thinks power is constantly being connected and disconnected.Major design flaw....They have now sent me a "test unit" and if that one works correct - they will replace my other ones. But it is a bugger as it needs to go back to the USA for replacement./k