Beginner setting up a lab - What do you guys think? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: FlashedBIOS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 08:25:21 pm
content: Here is the (brand new) equipment I bought for setting up my electronics lab. All my life, im 30, ive been a computer repair technician, and I am very good at what I know. However, computers are beginning to bore me and I thought I'd get into something a tad more creative. Here is the equipment I just bought:(2) Tektronix 1052B 50MHz Scopes(1) BK Precision 2190D Scope(1) Fluke 117 Multimeter(1) Tenma 72-7730A Multimeter(1) Tenma IR Thermometer(1) Weller digital soldering station with detachable iron(1) Tenma digital soldering station with detachable iron(1) BK Precision 1788 Power Supply(1) Mikroe-995I also got all the microe Clicks and LCDs that go with this boardI was able to get all this on a line of credit from a place that unfortunately does not carry Rigol products or I would have gone with the Rigol supply dave has.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 09:47:58 pm
content: Now get some good solder and flux, components, wire and PCB material, hand tools and whatever anyone else here suggests and get out and build something!!!

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 10:08:54 pm
content: Maybe some chests of little drawers to store the parts you'll some accumulate. Also, what have you got for benches?

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 10:35:16 pm
content: I know I should not ask, but why do you need 3 scopes and 2 soldering stations?

author: FlashedBIOS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 11:10:48 pm
content: The two soldering stations happened because after I purchased the Tenma, I read some bad things about not being able to find replacement irons. So I ordered a weller. Also I do have components and solder. Went to a local radio shack that was going out of business. components were 70% off so i bought every single component they had. Someone else had beat me to the the breadboards and wire though. The three scopes was like this. I purchased the tektronix one and they sent two but only charged me for one. Then I saw the 2190D was 100MHz and bought it. The two multimeters was on purpose. One thing i need to know is do I need a function generator? Bench is my kitchen table. we never eat at the table we eat on the couch in front of the TV, so the table never gets used for anything else. Now that I bought all this crap, where is a good place to learn about this stuff.... I know how to solder and stuff but if you asked me to design a circuit that flashed an LED, Id be completely lost after the batteries and the LED.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 11:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 07, 2015, 11:10:48 pmAnd you know how to operate a scope?Is it a idea to first learn how all these things work, and then decide what else you need?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 11:46:54 pm
content: Is it too late to return all that stuff?

author: FlashedBIOS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 12:01:06 am
content: Why would I want to return it?

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 02:28:49 am
content: +1 re GreyWolf re go and build something, often a linear power supply is a common 1st project, vary what you build and see what interests you at thetime. RF can be quite challenging and is quite different from computer work.

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 02:42:07 am
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 08, 2015, 12:01:06 amIt all sounds a bit like an impulse buying binge to me.That's just an impression I get, I don't know you at all and it may very well be wrong.You buy one soldering station, consider that it might break down so immediately buy a second. Why not wait with that until the first one actually breaks?You buy two scopes then find one that has more MHz and get that one as well. Why not investigate what you need and what is offered before buying three scopes?You ask if you need a function generator. Do you plan on doing any work that requires the generation of functions?What projects do you plan on doing? From your post about the flashing LED I understand that you have little to no practical knowledge of electronics and circuit design.I don't know how much you paid for the lot or how deep your pockets are but I would not consider this a minor purchase for most people.What if after a year you decide that electronics is not your thing after all and you have to sell off all this hardware that you don't need?Better start learning the basics with some basic equipment and then expand your lab as you find that it is lacking in some aspect.For example if you are constantly building single purpose oscillators it might be useful to buy a function generator.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 04:07:14 am
content: You need but ONE scope to start. Send those back and get a 200 Mhz or better scope with four channels. Don't bother with an MSO.You need ONE soldering iron.You need MULTIPLE variable power supplies.You will need two DMMs but I would get two similar units, one with uA current measurement capability if you're going to work on microcontrollers.As much as you need equipment, you will need test probes, breadboard, proto PCBs, resistor kits, caps, ICs, etc. spend your money on stuff that lets you get the work done easily and quickly. Otherwise all that hardware will just collect dust.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 12:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 07, 2015, 11:10:48 pmParts:Get them from distributors such asDigikey,Mouser,Newark(Farnell's US site), andAlliedfor example. You can get better pricing and quality parts than RadioShack or eBay as a general rule.Kits can be useful to get started, such as an Elenco 1% resistor kit, but don't get carried away (they offer others).There's a couple of Asian sources that are inexpensive, and parts quality is sufficient enough, but they do have issues (slow shipping would be one; a search will reveal these).Test & Measurement Gear:You'll want a few bench power supplies (they also make dual and triple output, which will get you what you need without having as many separate units). Used is your friend here (can get better value for money than the new crap offered at hobbyist friendly prices if you're careful to get a good, working unit).Regarding oscilloscopes, DMM's, ..., you'd be best to stop acquiring until you've a much better idea of what you're doing. Potential huge waste of money otherwise. For example, anything over a single oscilloscope to start, yet no power supplies is foolish.Actual Bench:I'd still recommend getting off of the dining table, as you can get burn marks, chemical stains, scrapes, dents/dings, ... , in otherwise nice furniture. A good 2 layer rubber ESD mat and wrist strap would be in order as well (example). It can take the heat from soldering, chemicals commonly associated with electronics, ...; but since it's not all that cheap, covering your entire dining table isn't realistic IMHO, which still leaves the table top vulnerable to damage.Learning Resources:Practical Electronics for Inventors(inexpensive book)Talking Electronics(online & free if you skip the kits and build yourself)Plenty of others have been mentioned in previous threads if you search.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 01:25:54 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 08, 2015, 12:01:06 amBecause you went in debt to acquire a bunch of second rate, over-priced stuff that you have no need for, and possibly don't even know how to use. It's no big deal, people have done dumber things. I certainly have, but I'd still return it all if it's not too late.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2015, 10:41:13 pm
content: flog one of the Tek scopes(or maybe both, the BK one looks good enough on paper)Two soldering irons is fine no worries, I sometimes solder with two at the same time (component removal) so it can be useful, but that's a rare thing anyway. Most of the time I have them set up with different tip sizes since that's much more useful.a very basic 1 MHz function generator is very cheap second hand or make it your first project!Don't hoard components that you will never use.

author: FlashedBIOS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 01:58:18 pm
content: Thanks for the advice, I agree i did go a bit crazy. At least I've acquired what i will need for a long time. If anyone wants to trade my unopened Tek scope for a rigol DP832 I'd be up for that. Anyways now that I have the lab set up I will be looking for benches locally. I already have an Idea for something I've wanted to make. Picture a small electronic box, on the front is a 16x2 Blue / White backlit LCD with buttons next to it, communicates via serial or i2c. on either side of the box is an RJ-11 telephone port. The box would be multifunctional. It could be programmed to record conversations, either all of them or only from certain numbers. It could be programmed to block calls and not ring the line based on the number. It could be an answering machine, it could be a fax machine and you would retrieve your faxes via ethernet, or USB. It could be programmed to do wakeup calls. Obviously something like this is going to need an embedded processor as all of the functions are gong to be added by software. any thoughts?

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 02:21:24 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 01:58:18 pmLearn to flash an LED. Only then will the complexity of what you really want to build become apparent.The phrase "All the gear, no idea" springs to mind!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 02:32:03 pm
content: It would be a cool project, but land lines are fading fast so it would be too niche.Also a very complex project with all the features mentioned.16x2 LCD, easy.I2C, a bit harder.Phone interface with voice, fax, blocking etc way harder.Ethernet USB retrieval, hard but not as much as implementing the rest.As Codemonkey suggests, try something simple and go from there.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 03:33:26 pm
content: You have more equipment than I've had at several jobs!Please tell me you at least got a nice industrial desk with ESD mat and lots of power plugs?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 04:31:14 pm
content: I'm sorry but you don't need THREE entry level scopes. Send two back, for your own sake. It would be one thing if you had the cash for this, but you don't.And I have to agree on the landline telephony device as a poor business model. Do it for fun, but don't even start with it thinking it's a business. Only very very specific niches in POTS-ville will survive, and there will be no volume, so you will need a very well-heeled customer to pay for your device. Whatever you build will have to be cerified before it can be attached to the POTS network, so if you're already financing scopes, how are you going to pay for that?I'm not trying to put you down, but you need to live within your means and start small. Eventually you will be ready for more, but as was suggested, blink the LED first.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 04:40:42 pm
content: Land line telephony pretty much defines the obsolescent, saturated market. You're describing a box and a set of capabilities that might have been commercially interesting 20 years ago, but not any more.I've spent much of my professional career designing telephony equipment of one form or another. Believe me when I say it's really not that interesting from a hobby / learning point of view either.

author: FlashedBIOS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:21:49 pm
content: I flashed an LED with a 555 Timer IC. However, I consider that cheating. The chip did all the hard work for me. I'd like to learn how to flash an LED without using any integrated circuit chips. Because when I build my telephony device, there are going to be NO ICs. Its cheating to use someone elses design and call it your own. Every circuit i build will be using transistors, resistors, capacitors, voltage rectifiers, and transformers. No ASICs or ICs here.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 07:21:49 pmBack to the .. 60's .. 70's ??In case you missed it, we're living in 2015!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:49:06 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 07:21:49 pmThat's going to need a big box.I'm curious how you are going to implement the TCP/IP or UDP stack with discrete components, or the USB interface, file saving, fax decoding, block numbers.. well I'm pretty sure you are going to need some IC's specially at least one MCU and phy chips for Ethernet and USB to name a few

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 07:55:25 pm
content: A classic project is a robot that can deliver a cold beer to it's builder.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:02:03 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 07:21:49 pmOh boy... Well, here's a way to record audio with no transistors or ICs...

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:08:23 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 01:58:18 pmThat box is what we used to call a modem! (I only half jest... I've seen most of the functionality you suggest implemented by modems over the years... Even the 16x2 LCD...)I kind of have to agree with the others, if you've got the possibility return what you can; It's easy to get caught up in equipment last and buy (on credit!) a lot of things you later find you don't really need. And don't dismiss ICs too easily either; We're all building on the shoulders of giants and the huge range of ICs available today make it possible for a single designer to build devices that would have been inconceivable in years past. Not to mention, as others have, that a lot of functionality we take for granted today may not even be physically possible in discrete components (WiFi?).

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:11:58 pm
content: QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:25:50 pm
content: You have to crawl before you can walk. In this case, you have to get on the floor before you can crawl. There's many years of learning ahead!

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:44:33 pm
content: Also, don't eat on the couch. It's barbaric.

author: 691175002
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2015, 08:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 07, 2015, 11:10:48 pmJust figured I'd point out that even at a 70% discount you are still getting screwed sideways by radioshack pricing.The discrete component prices I have seen at radioshack are a good 500%-10,000% more than you should be paying to begin with.

author: Tallie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2015, 04:48:31 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 08, 2015, 01:25:54 pmWhy such a harsh tone? ... Great way to welcome someone interested in the hobby.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2015, 05:56:26 am
content: Quote from: Tallie on March 20, 2015, 04:48:31 amPM sent.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2015, 02:50:01 pm
content: Quote from: FlashedBIOS on March 09, 2015, 07:21:49 pmDid you also learn the other bajillion things you can do with a humble 555, and out of that experience appreciate how cleverly it has been designed?