Another day, another cryptocurrency fail - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 09:12:23 pm
content: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2022/08/02/cryptocoin-token-swapper-nomad-loses-200-million-in-coding-blunder/

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 10:28:14 pm
content: And I just dropped a $200,000,000 bill on the city sidewalk. Boo hoo hoo. Woe is me! Time for somebody else to cough up.The whole crypto-fantasy world gets nuttier everyday. It's like a group of fishermen, "the first liar doesn't stand a chance!"** (Translation: the first liar is always followed by another liar who tells even even bigger lie about "the one that got away!")

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:09:32 pm
content: "Code is law" say idiots who never seen how bad people are at writing code.https://web3isgoinggreat.com/always brightens my day.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:25:05 pm
content: That said, have you seen how bad people are at writing laws?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:29:15 pm
content: For laws we have a system of courts and appeals. It is not perfect, for sure, but it is some form of recourse. There is nothing like this for crypto by design and intent.

author: abquke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:37:36 pm
content: There's little to nothing that has been done in cryptocurrency that bitcoin wasn't doing over a decade ago. I'm still standing by for the next AI winter.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:50:50 pm
content: Crypto people are so pathetic. In the twitter thread about complete failure of this thing, a dozen others advertise that this would never happen to their system.And of course there are twits from Nomad saying how they are super secure.And HEX is spamming their crap all over the place, as usual. Can't wait for that scam to fail.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:54:47 pm
content: What's fun with cryptocurrencies is all the constant drama around them.And yes, while I kinda like the decentralized idea, one problem with cryptos is the complete lack of recourse in case anything goes wrong - so the whole system is basically built on the premise that software and hardware bugs do not exist.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2022, 08:05:23 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 02, 2022, 11:54:47 pmAs if that is not the case with "normal" money too. Only there it is not based on software or hardware bugs not existing, but solely on the greed of mankind. And we do not learn. Think back on the last downfall due to the prime mortgages.I see the problem originating from the moment money became a "product". Money was basically invented to make trading easier, but at some point one with a lot of it thought "hang on, I can make my money grow by lending it to others and charge interest on it". A complete industry is now based on it. Fried air I call it.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2022, 11:14:23 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 02, 2022, 11:54:47 pmYou mean like this?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62381682QuoteYou've got to feel for the guy though, gutted doesn't begin to covers it.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2022, 11:39:47 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 03, 2022, 11:14:23 amI read about him before, and yeah not a smart move to makeBut he never had the actual money, and what did he really loose, a bit of money on his electricity bill.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2022, 11:55:13 am
content: I just keep thinking (trying not to) about trying to plug in an HDD that's spent 9 years under a mass of decomposing disposable nappies and runny food waste!Edit: I wonder if he remember whether he wiped it or smashed it with a hammer before he threw it away.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 02:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 02, 2022, 11:54:47 pmI only follow crypro for the memes that come out once it crashes

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 02:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 02, 2022, 11:09:32 pmHoly moly that thing just keeps going and going and goingLovely money counter also.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 03:00:58 pm
content: "Security-first cross-chain messaging protocol"... with replay attack interoperability.You could make this shit up if someone had not already done this shit for real: The software is from a company called Illusory Systems Incorporated. Dilbert the comic strip has nothing on the real IT world.Block chain is the new cash toilet chain.ART-LIFE-DILBERT-BLOCKCHAIN:https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2017/10/22/dilbert-comics-mock-blockchain-mania/

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 03:49:59 pm
content: It is also important to keep in mind that a lot of those "hacks" are just exit scams. So, it is not a complete incompetence, but a somewhat clever way to steal the money. And it works in most cases, given a complete lack of regulation in that area.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 04:29:00 pm
content: I would very much like to know how the guy would cash out that stush of bitcoins if recovered.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 04:36:11 pm
content: There are crypto laundering sites. No idea how well they work and now traceable they really are. I'm guessing it would be hard to recover millions all at the same time, but may be possible over a longer period.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 05:06:05 pm
content: Keep up guys...Another day, another, ANOTHER, cryptocurrency fail.Monday: hacker unleashesCrowd Lootingexploit on the Nomad blockchain bridge.Wednesday: Solana and USD Coins held in hot wallets emptied.QuoteThis the new DeFi world of Web 3.0 >++ EDITAn outline explanation of the Nomad hack:https://halborn.com/explained-the-nomad-hack-august-2022/In his blog Rob Behnke writes:QuoteA case ofif true then true else not false?Meanwhile the cause of the Solana exploit remains "unknown”.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 05:16:08 pm
content: There were 2-3 hacks a week for the past few weeks. And this rate makes me think it is all exit scams.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 07:50:43 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on August 04, 2022, 02:08:27 pmWell yeah. Precisely, people waiting for the final crash of cryptos is an integral part of the drama.While cryptos have a few inherent issues, regular currencies are not flawless either. Right now, the Euro is sort of crashing and I see no meme about it (probably because it's actually not very funny.)I don't think cryptos will have a "final crash" by themselves, especially the well-established ones such as Bitcoin. They will IMHO only if governments or some supranational organizations actively work at demolishing them. Just my opinion there though.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 10:30:00 pm
content: I suspect at some point many governments will make cryptocurrencies illegal, then the only use they will have is for illegal activities and they will crash. It's also possible the fad will just fade as people find something new and interesting to focus on.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 10:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 04, 2022, 05:16:08 pmI'm amazed how many people seem to be unaware that the 'we got hacked' scam has been going on since the beginning of crypto exchanges. Its such an old con that you'd think everyone knew by now, but apparently not. I can't believe this crap is ending up in peoples 401Ks, but there's no stopping it now since the crypto rats now have plenty of money to buy politicians.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2022, 10:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 04, 2022, 10:30:00 pmALL crypto is already illegal in China, doesn't stop them from using it. The largest crypto exchange in the world is run by Chinese, he just "moved" the headquarters offshore:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changpeng_Zhao.Illegal activities is absolutely massive, black market is estimated 12% of USA GDP. To limit it to only illegal activities would not cause a complete crash.I think its a terrible investment, but BTC in some shape or form will always be around.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 03:26:41 am
content: There is no doubt in my mind that governments will impose further regulations on crypto currency so that they can make money of it too.In Europe there is now talk about gift cards and coupons needing identification and registration when bought and exchanged, all under the launder and terrorism act. The real reason is more likely that they feel they miss out on taxes.Governments want full control over our lives and our money, and they sell it under the "it is all to protect you" theme. Sure we need rules and regulations, but to me they are driving it to far.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 11:53:23 am
content: I've been taking a look at the 'smart contract' rust language code that's behind Monday's hack and, in my opinion, the complexity and detail means the malicious actor/s would have needed developer level knowledge and project exposure. In other words, an 'inside' job; if such a thing is possible in a world of open source decentralized finance?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 03:36:17 pm
content: No, the hack is absolutely explainable. There are a ton of people constantly looking for exploits. Furthermore, the developers were notified in a disclose that this attack would be possible, but ignored it (possibly not understanding what the issue is). So, the issue was known, anyone with a bit of technical knowledge reading that could have created this attack after reading the disclosure.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 04:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 05, 2022, 03:36:17 pmSo what do you call a zero day exploit that's already been identified: Zero+ day exploit?Sadly open source developer community responses to such a slack disclosure may include, but not limited to, one of the following: Don't be ***** stupid. No ***** way dude. I'll close the ticket if you ***** open one. That's not how it ***** works you ***** idiot. Not ***** possible. Why didn't you ***** tell me? Why didn't someone else ***** test it. Not my ***** problem. It was a ***** fork that broke. It's free open source code provided AS IS so what did you ***** expect was going to happen?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 04:49:04 pm
content: What does open source has to do with this? Microsoft took 3 patches over half a year to fix readily exploitable printer vulnerability. They just kept patching so that exact exploit code did not work without addressing the actual issue. And researchers kept submitting patched exploits.It service is not open source either.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 05:12:58 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 05, 2022, 04:49:04 pmA vexed issue with open source code: When it comes to a known exploit causing thousands of people to lose millions of dollars, who exactly do they sue for damages? So who was it exactly who failed to show due diligence? And do they have any liability if it was their responsibility?Open hosted projects are made from a loose conglomerate of core developers and others who are have some technical or other aluturistic motive for joining in. Whether they give their expertise for free or are on someone's payroll, they are still providing a product AS-IS per the MIT License. There maybe agovernancecorporation at the center of the project which owns the branding (name, logo, ringtone, keyring, gonk), but they do not own the IP rights to anything else. With the decentralized nature of the blockchain Web 3.0 paradigm, they don't have to.In the case of this hack, where exactly did the responsibility for patching that exploit lay? Whose job was it? Who gets sued. Who gets fired? Who gets exonerated?The thinkers behind Web 3.0 need to start thinking this out - before our dumb government lawyers come up with another box of fudge.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 05:21:13 pm
content: Why are you so focused on finding blame and punishing somebody? Who cares whose fault it is, just get it fixed.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 05:28:06 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on August 05, 2022, 05:12:58 pmAnd who do you sue for the closed source software? It all comes with EULAs and you have to agree not to sue.Quote from: AndyBeez on August 05, 2022, 05:12:58 pmPeople working at that company. But it is their right not to fix anything. Companies are free to do whatever.Also, it is not a coding issue, it is a design issue. The system was coded as designed. So, they would have to change parts of the design to address this, and that may have other consequences.Same reason why Microsoft can't fix the printer stuff - it is not the coding issue, it is the design from the 90s that does not hold anymore, but they can't change it because customers rely on it. So, eventually they just chose to keep it as is.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 12:35:39 pm
content: These gift cards and precharged credit cards actually are a thing. AFAIR it was a short sidenote about a drug dealer being arrested, wo carried stacks of those cards with him.Of course stronger regulations will not help against criminals.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 04:08:39 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on August 09, 2022, 12:35:39 pmOne of the issues with gift cards is that companies hand them out as a Christmas bonus and when they are above the allowed limit it should be declared as income.Criminals will move on to other methods of handling dirty money.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 11:51:27 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 09, 2022, 04:08:39 pmNot sure what your point was but in the U.S. ANY income is supposed to be reported regardless what form it was in. To the IRS five hundred $1 gift cards are considered the same as one $500 gift card.That's true, and it always will be.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 12:42:54 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 05, 2022, 03:26:41 amIn Australia, they don't sugar coat it... If you make money off investments, you pay tax on it. Taxation and anti-money laundering are two different beasts. Crypto is no different to any other capital gains, so why pretend it is? As much as I hate paying tax, I tend to agree.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 04:10:18 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 09, 2022, 11:51:27 pmIn the Netherlands gift cards up to 40 euro are exempt from taxes. But the post was as a follow up on my earlier postQuote from: pcprogrammer on August 05, 2022, 03:26:41 amQuote from: Halcyon on August 10, 2022, 12:42:54 amThis differs throughout the world. In the Netherlands gain on investments are exempt, but dividend from them are not. A problem with gain on investments is when is it that you actually made money of it. When the tax authorities take samples of your assets at the end of the year, and the stock exchanges drop 30% the next day is it then fair that you have to pay tax on what you don't have any more? So then you would have to asses every sale on the stock market you make and pay tax on that, but again what if you make a bad investment after it?Of course taxation and anti-money laundering are two different beasts, because on the first the government makes money, where on the latter it does not. And that is what the government does not like.Tax paying is needed for sure. Governments can't exist without it, but they always want more, and it becomes a heavy burden.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 04:53:24 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 10, 2022, 04:10:18 amIs not it logical to count them when you sell the shares and get the cash back? This is not without drawbacks too, since this is what lets rich people to not pay taxes. But at least this is a consistent way to count gains on investment.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 07:00:52 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 10, 2022, 04:53:24 amSince income taxes are an annual thing I would say a total tally of wins and losses on investments over the whole year would be a more fair way to do it.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 07:17:54 am
content: Yes, but you only gain or lose if you turn things into cash. Otherwise the value of your holdings changes literally every millisecond. It is impossible to account for this and has some possibility for arbitrage.And it is generally impossible to use your holdings for payments. Although again, if you are really rich, you can use them as a collateral to get a loan, thus having cash but avoiding paying taxes on it.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 07:50:07 am
content: Yes that is what I meant.Takes a lot of accounting when you are a day trader. You have to note down the gains and losses of every transaction you make.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 08:03:58 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 10, 2022, 07:50:07 amEspecially for cryptocurrency. In smaller cheaper chains, you can easily rack up thousands of transactions in a year, good luck keeping track of pricing of each buy and sell.And then there are the technical issues with it. Also, how are you supposed to know how much the value is of the token? Is it the price of it in USD? You cannot exchange it to USD, you might be able to exchange it to BUSD or USDT or other token. If at the exact transaction, 1BUSD = 0.98 USD then what? What if you keep track of it in TUSD, which is 0.028USD, but it is supposed to be 1 USD?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 08:35:38 am
content: I was not aiming at crypto transactions but investment transactions in general.Selling a house that you bought to renovate and flip is also a transaction. As a company you have to keep track of everything when doing this, as a private person you might be exempt, at least in the Netherlands I think. Here in France you have "plus value". When you buy a second house and renovate it and sell it the only expenses you can deduct are those done by professionals. When you do the work yourself you can't deduct the materials used, for as far as I understood. And then you pay taxes over the difference between buy and sell price.But for crypto the moment you sell some of the tokens I think the money received from the transaction is added to your account in a regular currency being it dollars or euros, and you can use that. Sure it becomes a huge pain in the bum, because you can then also see exchanging dollars for euros or vice versa as a transaction. So where does it end?One way of doing it is to take balance on January 1st and then again on December 31st. If there is gain, tax that.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 09:22:44 am
content: School essay time: Who actually decides how much crypto currency is worth in USD? Is it the exchanges, blockchain miners, hodlers, churners, programmers, hackers, day traders, trading bots, venture capitalists or social media influencers?Reality check, investors have no influence on the crypto markets because the cypto markets fail to function as real fiscal markets do. There are no fiscal instruments such as quantitative easing or bond rates to stabilise fluctuating currency markets. Instead, it's all governed by the reflex actions of the hoard. And they can click faster than you.Crypto trading is like sitting in the car of a roller coaster and claiming you are going upwards because of your own powers of levitation. Rides go down as well as up. Unless that car goes off the rails.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 10:45:55 pm
content: Saying "investors have no influence" just because crypto markets fluctuate wildly is not a valid statement.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 11:10:00 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 10, 2022, 04:10:18 amThere is Unrealized gain (the one before you sell) and Realized gain (when you sell). Double check your country's tax rules, i would be surprized if they tax Unrealized gain.QuoteHere we can offset your investment loss against the tax you owe so you pay less tax. But you have to have tax you owe, otherwise you can't claim a loss.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 11:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 10, 2022, 10:45:55 pmYou're correct. Whales can rug pull a token's liquidity at the cost of the little guy's life savings. Like with Terra-Luna. So yes, select investors can and do influence market volatility, but only for their own personal gain.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2022, 01:22:38 am
content: IMHO anyone who has their life savings in crypto, or any other single investment really then I think they are kind of an idiot.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2022, 09:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 02, 2022, 11:54:47 pmHow much is a Bitcoin worth?