DSO-X 3024A Power Supply defect - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: enz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 11:51:24 am
content: Hi All,bad luck today.When I plugged in my DSO-X 3024A the circuit breaker tripped and I saw a light flash cominf out of the backside of the oscilloscope.After opening the device and inspecting the power supply I noticed a burned part, see picture below:I think the broken part was a varistor, but I am not 100% sure. Could also be a capacitor.Can anyone identify the part?Otherwise I would leave the part unpopulated.Best regards,Martin

author: JFJ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 12:49:24 pm
content: The part might be a NTC thermister, like this:https://www.yoycart.com/Product/571067033190/

author: soesante
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 01:24:34 pm
content: Believe its NTC Thermistor...Sent from my SM-J730G using Tapatalk

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 05:04:08 pm
content: The blown part is obviously a NTC thermistor as others have pointed out but the question is why did it blow? It is possible that it was just that part, it happens, but there may have been something more serious that caused it to blow. In the lower left there is F1 a 6.3A fuse, is that blown?You say the problem caused a breaker to trip. That sounds more like a direct short from one of the A.C. input leads to ground (earth) or a line-to-line short. If it was just a problem within the power supply the 6.3A fuse would blow but not the breaker. What is the breaker capacity? It is probably several amps higher. There are 2 toroidal inductors on the left side of the power supply, probably one on each leg of the A.C.. If there was an arc-over in that area, that may have caused the problem.It would be a good idea to carefully check the power supply out and not just replace that part and plug it back in to power.Edit: I said fuse was 0.3A and it is actually 6.3A. Thanks to PA0PBZ for pointing out my error.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 06:02:16 pm
content: Quote from: ArthurDent on September 20, 2018, 05:04:08 pmI think it says 6.3A so it could well be that the breaker was faster. When something like this happens the diodes are the first suspects. If you find one shorted replace them all!

author: JFJ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 06:42:51 pm
content: The usual purpose of a thermistor, in this type of power supply, is to limit the inrush current to the main input filter capacitor. In normal operation, you wouldn't expect the thermistor to get hot enough to break apart. Presumably, something downstream of the thermistor went short circuit (e.g. the main switching MOSFET transistor). So, as ArthurDent suggests, it would be unwise to just replace that part and plug it back in to power.A better way, would be to connect the oscilloscope to mains power via an incandescent lamp. A 60W light bulb, for example, would limit the current to around a quarter of an amp. If there isn't a short circuit, the lamp should, initially, glow brightly and then dim, but in the presence of a short circuit, it would continuously glow brightly.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: JFJ on September 20, 2018, 06:42:51 pmI'd pull out a DMM first and check the rectifier and primary MOSFET for a short before attempting a repair or even power it.

author: enz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2018, 08:24:49 am
content: Hi All,sorry for the late response, I was very busy.Thanks for all the hints, very appriciated.The defect part was indeed a 7Ohm Thermitor, thanks for pointing that out.The 6.3A Fuse was not blown. This Fuse is only in Series to a varistor, so it only blows if the varistor goes defect.The power supply is working fine now. Here is what happened:The main capacitor (100uF/420V, Nichicon 105°C) was defect.This caused the voltage to rise and the primary MosFET popped to a dead short.This caused the Thermistor to overheat and blow (but maintain a low impedance connection). Due to the dead short of the MosFET the circuit breaker (16A) tripped.I replaced the three parts and checked the rest of the power supply, but all other parts were fine.Scope is back in business now.The main problem seeems to be, that the supply is powered all the time. The scope is about 7 years old. Don't know why Agilent decided to put the switch on the secondary side.Thanks again,Martin

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2018, 11:10:13 am
content: I had it on a few Keysight and also Keithley instruments power supplies, that the NTC only broke.Only exchanging the NTC solved the problem completely.Funny: I bought a few extra NTC's and they are almost all gone by now.I think they fail, when the instrument is turned ON/OFF multiple times, shortly after each other and the NTC is overloaded. I also noted that newer instruments have a much larger NTC installed ind the PSU.

author: DEHiCKA
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 03:20:56 pm
content: Got mine 3034A blown today exact the same way as OP.Loud electric bang with smell of an electronic death and 16A circuit breaker tripped.Last time it was powered more than 12 hours ago from the same outlet.Clearly, PSU is not well designed: main cap heated so much for so long so the board on the other side is black and cracked.One of the mosfets was blown to pieces (P12NM50). And there was an arc from the PSU backside to the scope's main shield.The 6.3A Fuse was not blown. NTC has a small crack but still good. Probably something else is dead.Here is another DSO-X blown the same way with some dead parts on the PSU ctrl board:http://powersuppyrepair.blogspot.com/2018/02/lineage-power-cch0125f1-z03a.htmlI do not really want to repair the PSU, but can not find where to buy a direct replacement yet.It is5"x 3" 12V 125W. DSO-X uses remote sense lines and remote on-off.There are bunch of 5"x 3" 120W+ PSUs with sense and on/off (pull down), but I can not find one with the same pinout.

author: DEHiCKA
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2019, 12:18:09 pm
content: Follow up on the repair.The main 100uF/420V cap has degraded down to 9uF.The PSU control board was also fried, so I did not bother to repair it.Exchanged PSU for Meanwell RPS-400. Works fine now.I'm glad the cirquit breaker was only 16A / 220V, not 32A or 40A!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2019, 04:21:23 pm
content: Congratulations on the successful repair.Nice that we can buy fitting power supplies for these scopes.

author: frabre
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 01:36:30 pm
content: Hi DEHiCKA,I have the same problem of power supply.I tried to repair but...Which model of RPS-400: RPS-400-12 or RPS-400-12-C ?If 400-12: no problem of shielding ?If 400-12-C: no problem of height ?Thanks in advance...

author: DEHiCKA
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2019, 10:03:23 am
content: Hi, frabreI have the cheapest RPS-400-12 without cage.No problem with the shielding, it has a slight audible noise, but otherwise working just fine.In/Out terminals are differ from original though, so you have to make some kinda adapter.

author: Madmanguruman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 05:09:16 pm
content: Just chiming in about shielded vs. unshielded 3x5 power supplies. I recently replaced the same PSU from a DSOX3014A scope with a Murata PQC250-12 and a bit of Mylar to create some creepage between the cable bundles and power supply itself. So far so good, no discernable pick-up or noise issue. I would argue that if you are replacing with a non-caged PSU that you should carefully dress the cables to keep them away from hotspots or from touching any primary-side parts - this is why I added some Mylar under the cable assemblies as they cross the power supply.Also, to sanity-check the scope before you get a new power supply, you can remove the PSU and connect a 12VDC 10A lab supply directly to the 12V rail (no need for enable or remote sense) - the scope will power-up and operate without these signals. My scope was drawing between 5.5 and 6.5A with a single scope probe connected and the scope capturing data.

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:10:39 pm
content: Hey Guys! I found a similar problem with my 3034a oscilloscope power supply. I made a repair video about fixing it.Hats off to @DEHiCKA for posting the power supply blog repair link. My current mode controller was completely toast as well.List of replacement parts:Datasheet for look-a-like lineage branded power supply. CCH125 series:http://apps.geindustrial.com/publibrary/checkout/CCH125?TNR=Data%20Sheets%7CCCH125%7CPDF&filename=CCH125.pdfGenuine Keysight PSU repair part: 0950-5277https://www.keysight.com/my/partDetail/0950-5277Original mosfet:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/STP12NM50/497-2666-5-ND/603691Replacement mosfet:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ixys/IXTP450P2/IXTP450P2-ND/2328313Two pin Diode package near mosfet:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/MUR860G/MUR860GOS-ND/919926Current mode controller:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/on-semiconductor/UC3842BVD1R2G/UC3842BVD1R2GOSCT-ND/5802572Replacement MOV:https://www.arrow.com/en/products/v300la20ap/littelfuseReplacement NTC Varistor:https://www.arrow.com/en/products/b57237s709m/epcos-tdkReplacement Fuse:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bel-fuse-inc/MRT-6-3AMMO/507-1119-1-ND/4794478Replacement 1w 22k resistor under main filter capacitor:https://www.arrow.com/en/products/erj-1tyj223u/panasonicTall cap I selected:https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=ucy2w101mhdDimensionally compatible cap:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/rubycon/450VXH100MEFCSN22X25/1189-2028-ND/3564971Power Supply Replacement Candidates:Meanwell RPS-300-12Meanwell RPS-400-12Meanwell EPP-300-12Will need ps_on inverted:Meanwell RPSG-160-12Murata PQC250-12

author: mlloyd1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 03:20:57 pm
content: so, is anybody seeing this issue on the 3000T models (yet)?mlloyd1

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 04:33:22 pm
content: Quote from: mlloyd1 on May 07, 2020, 03:20:57 pmThe 3000t series uses a different power supply that so far doesn't appear to have any issues.

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 04:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 07, 2020, 04:33:22 pmDave's early review shows the same lineage power supply @2:23Granted, they could have changed it out later on (I hope they did).

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 05:25:12 pm
content: Keysight has confirmed in the past that they have changed it. I know my 3024T has a different model supply. Perhaps it was after production had started.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 11:10:54 am
content: Just to add another data point - this morning my MSO-X3104A diedIt was sitting on the bench, powered up but not actually connected to anything, when the display suddenly went blank without warning. I removed and reinserted the power cable, there was a loud bang, and the GFCI for the house tripped.The main reservoir cap in the PSU has vented, and was very hot indeed. The current mode controller has blown the top off its package, and the gate resistor for the MOSFET Q1 is toast too.Ordinarly I wouldn't even consider repairing an off-the-shelf PSU module, but this one appears to be a custom part that's not readily available, even though it looks like a standard item.Has anyone replaced one of these with something else recently? Is there anything particularly special about the Lineage module that makes it hard to substitute for another unit?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 03:09:39 pm
content: I have always repaired the Keysight power supplies, because usually it is very simple.What is different on the MSO-X3104A?You have pictures?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2020, 05:08:48 pm
content: I don't think the MSO-X3104A has a different power supply. I've asked Keysight to quote for a replacement part, and there's always the option of fitting an alternative with a suitable wiring adapter, but since I have some spare time this weekend I figured it was probably worth seeing if the damage looks repairable.I had a few different dead parts than others have seen; MOSFET Q1 has a series resistor which is 5.11 Ohms 0805, and R7 is 110mOhm 5% (probably 2W).In my PSU both were open circuit; the gate resistor was blown to bits, and the larger one I suspect was damaged during extraction of C11. They're stuck together with white goop which made removing them to access the current mode controller (also blown to bits!) tricky.The MOSFET Q1 had a big diagonal crack all the way across the package body, the main cap had vented, and the board was dark and discoloured around the 22k resistors on the underside. Part of me is curious to know what happened in what order. Another part of me is cursing a wasted day and just wants it back working again.I was able to determine the values of the dead resistors by measuring them in a working PSU, which I borrowed out of my MSO-X3054A. Since I rely on my scope to make a living, having a spare on hand was never optional, and today my decision to keep two that are very similar has paid off. I've put the PSU from the spare scope into my 3104A which is now working fine.Even the working PSU in the 3054A was very hot when I removed it, having been running for several hours since the 3104A died. I'm really not surprised they fail.My MOV and NTC seemed OK, there's high impedance from L to N and about 7 Ohms across the NTC and chokes.I should warn anyone else looking to work on one of these supplies, you'll need a powerful soldering iron and a good range of tips. The board is constructed with no thermal relief on any of the through-hole pads, and the copper draws heat out like no other board I ever remember working on. Desoldering the heat sinks and large components without damaging the board was exceptionally difficult even with my JBC, and you'll need to be both gentle and patient. The main cap C7 was especially reluctant to come out, and it's fortunate that the little copper pad on the top side of the board, negative terminal, wasn't actually connected to anything.I wasn't able to find an exact replacement for the 110mOhm resistor, so I've ordered 100m + 10m to fit in series. All the other parts were available from stock at either RS or Farnell, including some parts which looked OK but which I had to remove to gain access to others. Given the cost of new components vs my time, I rarely re-fit used ones to anything.Fingers crossed nothing else has failed, and when it's all reassembled I get a working PSU again. I'll be running it for some time out of the box on a decent load before I trust it with my scope.

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2020, 08:15:12 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 22, 2020, 05:08:48 pmMy PSU repair was rather painful, but successful. Overall, I'm not too fond of the repairability of the Lineage PSU design. It definitely took a lot of patience, flux and heat to get the aluminum heatsink off and not destroy the staking pads. I think I ended up having to super-glue a heatsink pad back on at the end of the repair process. I opted to leave the daughter PCB soldered in and just desoldered the failed soic-8 current mode controller on my unit. Since the lineage design does not instill confidence, I went with a meanwell RPSG-160-12 as a replacement power supply to have on hand in case the failure occurs again. Unfortunately, I goofed and ended up with the RPS-160-12 which does not have the remote-on feature which this oscilloscope needs as the power button is designed to switch the secondary side.https://www.arrow.com/en/products/rpsg-160-12/mean-well-enterprisesIf I could do the repair all over again, I would desolder the (4) series 22k 1w SMT resistors below the main filter cap and replace them with one ~88k4w or 5w through hole resistor and just leave the resistor spaced off the main pcb. This way the resistors can't directly heat up the back side of the filter cap. There is enough space between the bottom face of PSU PCB and the aluminum shell of the agilent oscilloscope to accommodate the resistor. Additionally I would add electrical tape on the back side of the oscilloscope casing where the resistor may come close. On closer look, It may be a set of 2 power resistors, I see a trace between the 3rd and 4th resistor on the back side.Something like this:

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 10:04:29 am
content: I'm a little hesitant to make a resistor modification like that because I'm not sure I can see a sufficiently robust way to mount a TH part off the PCB.The SMT resistors may get very hot, but they are at least light weight and unlikely to detach and become dangerous if the scope takes a knock. I'm concerned that the added weight of a TH part could cause it to detach the already weakened pads from the PCB, and in the worst case this means a loose end at 400V flapping about.As an aside, I was faced with a very similar problemhere. After I posted that thread, the equipment in question did actually fail again, and it was the resistor chain exactly as I'd predicted.I've removed the resistors from my scope PSU just to check the condition of the board and solder joints. The board is blackened and the solder mask is cracked, but the pads are still firmly attached, and following a good clean with IPA, I'd put it in the "I've seen worse" category. I'll order some replacement resistors anyway, no sense refitting old ones.Given that the failure is entirely predictable, I've also ordered a replacement main capacitor (this one) for my other scope, by way of preventative maintenance. If I can spend half an hour swapping a single component, rather than waiting for a potentially catastrophic failure that will inevitably happen at the most inconvenient moment, that has to be time well spent, IMHO.One thought I did have was to fill the space between the resistors and the internal aluminium chassis of the scope with a thermal gap filler pad material likethis stuff. This would conduct some of the heat out of the board and into the chassis, which in turn would keep the temperature of the capacitor down and help it last a bit longer.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2020, 10:05:34 am
content: ps. I also stumbled across an older thread containing some useful information -here.

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2020, 05:48:03 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 27, 2020, 10:04:29 amYeah. I'm not under the impression that this was a decent quality power supply. The PCB material around the resistors was quite charred on my unit, which may indicate a low TG fiberglass board was used. I have not experienced many boards where neighboring soldermask cracks and flakes off after a desoldering procedure.You have a very valid point, the weight of a THT resistor may be too much for whatever is left of the compromised pads that endured such elevated temperatures. That thermal pad looks like a promising solution. I'm guessing the pad would have to be around 6mm thick to sink the heat to the aluminum shell, but I think there are some noticeable diminishing returns with increased thermal pad z-height.I'm glad you were able to get the scope back up and running!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2020, 10:20:30 am
content: Today the last few parts arrived to complete the PSU repair. I reassembled the unit and connected it to a 5R dummy load, to give it an opportunity to prove its reliability before being connected to my expensive scope.It's as well that I ran the test. It lasted about 10 minutes before there was a bang and the fuse in my isolation transformer blew.The damage was interesting - Q8 showed evidence of arcing from the tab to the heat sink, and it looked as though there may have been a tiny nick in the kapton tape which caused it to fail as an insulator.I fitted my one spare Q8, and replaced the kapton tape under it with a proper thermal pad. This time it managed only 10 seconds before there was another bang and a visible puff of smoke.I don't doubt itcouldbe fixed again, but if there's a Mean Well that'll fit, then that has to be the better option now.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 10:17:05 am
content: Today I installed a Mean Well RPS-160-12 into my 3054A, which had graciously agreed to donate its original power supply to keep the 3104A alive.The MW has a different connector and pin-out, which requires a new wiring harness. It also requires a little filing of the mounting holes to make it fit, as they don'tquiteline up with the standoffs on the scope chassis. (Take care doing this, as a couple of them do make an important earth connection - and test for connectivity afterwards!)There's an adjuster on the MW which can be used to set the output voltage. Noting that the silk screen on the scope's own dc-dc board refers to +13V from the PSU, I adjusted its output up to +12.9V.Result? The scope turns on just fine, but the front panel power switch no longer does anything. The MW doesn't have the remote power-on feature that the original supply does, and there's nowhere to connect the REMOTE wire from the scope. It looks as though the RPS-400-12 does have remote power on/off, so with hindsight that could have been a better choice even though it's a more costly unit.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 02:58:10 pm
content: Nice that you got it partially working.It might be a good idea to try the RPS-400-12 with remote control and see if you get it to work.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 03:32:08 am
content: Well, another lineage power supply bit the dust (in my msox2024a). Same old story, blew the transistor (and fuse) and the main cap has gone from 100uF to around 5uF.Rather than try to repair, I followed the path of others and replaced with a Meanwell. In my case after a bunch of research/comparing, I went with an EPP-300-12 model. Mouser had it for $58. Bought some JST 4 pin females and pins to make the S+/S- and Power-on mate and then repurposed the existing AC plug to fit on 2 of the 3 pins (of the 5 pin connector) on the Meanwell. Cut the 3 GND and 3 +12V wires and crimped each set of 3 to a ring terminal.It's a tight fit, but will fit and all go back together nicely. The Power-on signal of the EPP-300 talks properly with the scope's front panel button so all functions nicely.Thanks to contributors of this thread to steer me down the right path to repair my scope. I did power it up with +12V from my powersupply first to verify nothing nasty had happened other than the crackle pop of the original powersupply. All was good so that was a relief and I knew I just need to replace the powersupply to be back in business.cheers,george.

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 05:46:25 am
content: You definitely made the right choice! I just don't think it's worth the hassle of repairing and troubleshooting the lineage power supply anymore, as it is really not a good design.Suitable candidates I've come across so far:Meanwell RPSG-160-12Meanwell RPS-300-12Meanwell RPS-400-12Meanwell EPP-300-12Murata PQC250-12Bel Power ABC201-1012G...The original replacement unit I purchased, the Meanwell RPS-160-12, did not include the remote power-on option. I goofed and purchased the wrong version. The unit I meant to purchase was the Meanwell RPSG-160-12. What a difference one letter can make!The replacement power supply needs to have a remote sense and remote power-on feature as the power switch on the oscilloscope switches the secondary side of the power supply and not the primary side. Without the remote-on feature, the oscilloscope power button does nothing. Plugging the oscilloscope in would be the on/off button, which is not ideal.All these units seem pretty decent. I'm liking the fact that the Murata unit is higher efficiency and most importantly does not have a perpendicular daughter board, like the meanwells. This should make the murata unit easier to repair, but then again, none of these units should need any attention for a long time.It doesn't look like the murata has fine adjustment on Vout, so from the datasheet it can't be set to 13v which is the output voltage of the lineage PSU. The meanwells have Vout fine adjustment. The bel power has minimal adjustment. This may not be a deal breaker as these are all 12v class power supplies and the original lineage PSU only had a +-5% voltage adjustment range and poor voltage regulation.Glad to hear you got the msox2024a back up and running!

author: rolkinas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 10:09:00 pm
content: After reading all this I took apart mine perfectly working DSO-X 2024A to check condition of smps. I use scope not that much and bought it used couple years ago.Cap measures ok: 107uF.But those baking resistors gets surprisingly hot. Precious preprogrammed obsolescence.It seems that psu might survive longer with scope being powered on and fan running. While resistors still heats while unit is powered off. It's not funny having components near 100C in device being in standby...Just curious if new SMPSs sold as spares by Keysight have such an issue?

author: salvagedcircuitry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 04:21:29 am
content: Quote from: rolkinas on December 03, 2020, 10:09:00 pmThis is excellent information. Thanks a bunch for adding the infrared images. Makes me want to pull the OEM PSU out of my other DSOx

author: Madmanguruman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 09:31:43 pm
content: I'm liking the fact that the Murata unit is higher efficiency and most importantly does not have a perpendicular daughter board, like the meanwells. This should make the murata unit easier to repair, but then again, none of these units should need any attention for a long time.The Murata PQC250-12 works just fine with three DSOX3014As that I've repaired - the oldest repair has had close to 1 year of constant use with no issues so far.Like with other units, the wiring harness needs to be modified to make it work but it does offer remote sense as well as remote on/off (possibly with inverted logic, but the button will still work.)I must also admit that I'm biased - I work at the Murata power supply design center where the PQC250-12 was designed and qualified.

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 03:38:39 pm
content: Finally got around to dismantling my msox3054a after 8 or 9 years. Partly because of a high pitch hissing sound that always seemed to be present, and it's waaaaay out of warranty so now idgaf.But lo and behold look what I've found on the power supply, the blackening around the 22K resistors under the big arse 420V cap.The little black chunk to the left is what flaked away when I gently prodded between the leftmost 2 22K resistors, it's exposed a track.Also you can see that on the underside of the shield it is starting to discolour/blacken in line with either the resistors or that mosfet (don't know).Maybe time to throw the parts-cannon at it for pre-emptive maintenance.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 05:05:28 pm
content: In years past, HP/Agilent would issue service notes on things like this.

author: rolkinas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 06:29:29 pm
content: Hi, don't forget to check capacitance of 420V cap. It probably is semi-dry.I am thinking about mounting something like power resistor on psu shield-heatsink in place of smd. something like ROX5SJ91K from Digikey.Leaving these baking 22K where they are now is asking for trouble.

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2020, 08:09:55 am
content: Decided to desolder the 22K resistors.They were hiding more blackening/carbonising/burning of the PCB. Pretty sure that wasn't my desoldering.

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2020, 12:36:03 pm
content: Different view of the pads (continuing previous post).Shining a light from the opposite side, after removing the 420V cap, you can see cracks more easily on the inside of the resistor solder pads.There is a faint crack at the upper right resistor, bottom pad.

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 07:15:15 am
content: Parts I ordered arrived today. Bought 2 different models of the resistors and capacitor.Measured the ESR of the cap from the supply and the new ones using an "ESR Meter Mk II" as seen in the photo.1.4R for the old cap, 0.25R for the new ones.Measured the capacitance of all of them with various multimeters, all read within 87uF to 95uF.Then measured capacitance (not ESR) with the LCR45 at different frequencies, theres a few photos of that and a table below.-OldNewNew (high ripple current)1kHz46uF87uF84uF15kHz1.08uFcycled negative to ~110uFcycled negative to ~110uF200kHz282nF6uF but cycled slowly between 5 and 8 uF5.9uF but cycled slowly between 5 and 8 uFHere are specific parts I bought:100uF cap:LGW2W101MELA25 450V high ripple currenthttps://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-gw.pdfLGUW6101MELA same as on the supplyhttps://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-gu.pdf22K resistors:CRGP2512F22Khttps://www.te.com/global-en/product-4-2176331-1.html352122KFThttps://www.te.com/global-en/product-8-2176070-1.html

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 12:30:28 pm
content: Continuing from previous post, here are scope captures of 200kHz 1Vpp square wave fed into the old cap and the direct equivalent new cap (LGUW6101MELA). Just like what @w2aew demonstrates athttps://youtu.be/115erzCCxgEcapture 1: old cap, scope DC coupledcapture 2: old cap, scope AC coupledcapture 3: new cap (LGUW6101MELA), scope DC coupledcapture 4: new cap (LGUW6101MELA), scope AC coupled

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2021, 07:57:23 pm
content: My MSO-X 3024A PSU blew up as well - just now.Nice consistency Agilent, or Shitsight or whatever you are called now.Leo

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 04:20:54 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on January 30, 2021, 07:57:23 pmDo you have any photos of what specifically blew up?How old was your 3024A?

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 10:56:07 am
content: Looks like synchronous rectification MOSFET.It's 7-8 years old - obsolete by iPhone standards.LeoQuote from: rernexy on January 31, 2021, 04:20:54 am

author: rernexy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 11:57:31 am
content: Is the PCB blackened/burnt under the 22K resistors on the bottom of the PCB aswell (like others in this thread)?

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
content: It has discolouration and solder resist cracks.Aren't these HV safety bleed resistors? They can probably be increased in value in such case - but fixing it is polishing a turd.It was probably designed and tested in 120V mains zone.LeoQuote from: rernexy on February 01, 2021, 11:57:31 am

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 12:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on January 31, 2021, 10:56:07 amThat must have been quite noticeable bang...Is that a blob of ejected melted transistor metal on that mounting clamp ?Stay safe,Sinisa

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 12:57:23 pm
content: Yes, it's a lava bomb ejected from inside the FET. The explosion was very loud indeed.LeoQuote from: 2N3055 on February 01, 2021, 12:47:58 pm

author: gman76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 06:22:24 pm
content: Can you provide specifics on the harness re-wiring? Is it just a matter of a couple wires? Will it be obvious once I have the supply in hand? I plan to use either the PQC250-12 or EPP-300-12. Haven't purchased yet.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 07:07:59 pm
content: It's mostly self evident once you have the scope opened up and remove the dead PS. There's a few wires/connections.Mains input, Front panel low voltage on/off control, +12/0V main DC power and sense wires. If you are competent enough to use the scope then you can handle the re-wiringMost of the work is getting the new supply to fit nicely (with the re-wiring) into the rather cramped space. Take your time.cheers,george.

author: gman76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 11:37:34 pm
content: Hi georges80, I'm buying the RPSG-160-12. I took the original supply out and looked at the CCH125 pinouts. Everything looks obvious except the pin called REMOTE on the 1x6 header. There are 3 wires coming from the main board into the CCH125, -S +S and REMOTE.On the RPSG-160, I see two possibilities: PG and PS/ON. I think its the PS/ON that I need to connect the REMOTE wire to, correct? The pin called PG looks like an output. If this is the case, then I'll need to remove the 3 wires from the orig connector and place the two sense wires in a new housing and the REMOTE wire into another housing since the RPSG has these split into two connectors.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 11:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: gman76 on February 22, 2021, 11:37:34 pmPG is power good output. Remote is ON/OFF..

author: rolkinas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 03:08:01 pm
content: Regarding original PSU.I experimented with higher value resistors in place of cooking 4pcs 22K. AC voltage controlled by variac. Resistor values and corresponding psu start stop voltages below:220k - start 80Vac , stop 75Vac310k - start 98Vac , stop 75Vac440k - start 135Vac , stop 75Vac660k - start 190Vac , stop 75Vac750k - start 217Vac , stop 75VacNOTICE: Tested ohmic values are total resistance of all 4 resistors (because all 4 all are in series). So 220K means 4pcs of aproximately 56kWhen psu starts, voltage drop across resistors becomes near 380V because PFC starts as well.turn off voltage is determined by PFCEven total 220k of resistor stayed at about 70 degree C what is much more usable {hint to 110Vac grid fellas}

author: gman76
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 08:19:44 pm
content: Received the Meanwell RSPG160 supply, expanded holes to get the screw holes lined up, re-arranged wiring on connector. Plugged it into 120VAC, not sure if it would go bang, but quietly powered up. Scope is now back up and running.Worked fine at 12.0V., but adjusted Vout up to 12.6V.The only issue now is that the front power button doesn't work. I probed the REMOTE signal (PS/ON) and it's always low. Pushing the power switch doesn't change the DMM reading, just slightly. Maybe need a GND return? Or is this the wrong signal?EDIT: It was indeed the ground connection of the 1x4 header (CN901). I made a wire with a crimp on each end. Front power button works great.

author: tapelu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 10:09:13 am
content: Quote from: Madmanguruman on December 04, 2020, 09:31:43 pm

author: Madmanguruman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 12:50:44 am
content: I'll share my reverse-engineering below.The pinout of the Molex header (on the DSO-X side) is as follows:1: +12V2: +12V3: +12V4: +12V return5: +12V return6: +12V return7: Return sense8: +12V sense9: Remote on/offFor the PQC250-12:- Run 3 wires from the DSO-X Molex header pins 1-2-3 to +12V (any of J2 pins 1-6)- Run 2 wires from the DSO-X Molex header pins 4-5 to +12V return (any of J2 pins 7-12)- Run 1 wire from the DSO-X Molex header pin 6 to J3 pin 8 - this is the return for the remote on/off signal- Run 1 wire from the DSO-X Molex header pin 7 to J3 pin 6 - this is the low-side remote sense- Run 1 wire from the DSO-X Molex header pin 8 to J3 pin 5 - this is the high-side remote sense- Run 1 wire from the DSO-X Molex header pin 9 to J3 pin 4 - this is the remote on/off signal- The AC cable assembly will plug in directly without modifications.Because the PQC250-12 is open-frame I usually put a thin insulating sheet behind the wiring harnesses / in front of the power supply.Three DSOs with PQC250-12 are deployed in my lab, and all have passed their annual traceable calibration tests (done by an external accredited laboratory).(Depending on the remote enable logic, you may find that the pushbutton is reversed: in=off, out=on - this can be changed via a few resistor pops/no-pops but why bother?)

author: tapelu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 06:02:32 am
content: Perfect ! Many, many thanks for your effort !

author: ketch
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 08:26:21 am
content: Hello. I need to know the value of the resistor from the photo.

author: martinr33
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2021, 02:32:28 am
content: I used madmanguruman's recommendation of a Murata power supply.The only difference is, I used the existing sense lines from the oscilloscope board for the sense lines back to the small 8-pin connector. The reversed power switch is not bothersome.I did try to troubleshoot the existing supply, but it was less cooperative than I liked. The PSU has a lot more parts than the example schematic for the 3842A (presumably for PFC) so there could be other failures.My notes on that journey below.Apply some 63/37 tin-lead solder to the pads before you try to remove parts. This technique is particularly effective on the metal frame. The existing lead free solder has a high melting point and is difficult to rework otherwise, the tin-lead trick makes it much easier to melt. Make sure that the solder flows for this trick to work. Alternatively, hunt down some indium based solder.1) It seems that units running on 220 - 250V might be more vulnerable to failure. The main cap is rated 400V, and can see 350V in some countries. Couple that with the local heat, and life could be short. Also, the 7A fuse is overrated for 250V, meaning more energy can let loose in a failure. Finally, some 250V countries (UK, for example) have very low impedance and can provide a lot of destructive current in a half cycle.2) Capacitor ripple current should be lower at 250V, but I think the higher voltage offsets any advantage of the lower current. A higher voltage electrolytic cap always improves life.3) The failure appears to cascade like this:- Main capacitor 100uF 400V cooks down to almost no capacitance- Switching FET shorts out under voltage/current stress caused by high resistance C1- High current flows to ground through 0R11 2W current sense resistor on top side of board, which connects the drain of the switching FET to ground. Note that the fuse could blow here, limiting the damage to the fuse, the transistor, and the cap. There's no thermistor on the TI sample schematic, but this part is also at risk in the Agilent PSU. , - 0.11 ohm resistor blows open circuit. The drain of the main switching FET now rises to the voltage across the cap, 350V in 250V regions and 170V in 110V regions. The gate, now part of a shorted blob, follows.- With the FET drain path to ground open, the 350V now flows from the FET gate through the 2R2 gate drive resistor and into the output stage (pin 6) of the switching PSU controller 3842A. Therefore, the 3842A does not survive if the 0.11 Ohm resistor blows. The 2R2 resistor also blows.- there is also a 2K2 resistor that connects to the sense input on the 3842A. This resistor can also blow, if the shorted internal 3842A drive path goes open circuit. The high voltage will flow to ground through the sense circuitry.- There's a final path to ground through the optocoupler phototransistor, but these transistors usually have a quite high current rating and seem to survive.

author: asp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2022, 12:45:05 pm
content: HiDoes anyone know the value for the resistor in the picture below? Mine has a hole in it and it's open. The resistor in question is located on the daughter board near the UC3842 PWM controller of the PSUThanksUpdate: The resistor is a 499Ohm, and if that is gone the comparator might be gone as well

author: NY2KW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 07:20:28 pm
content: Thanks to all for the detailed repair advice. My 3054A suddenly died but on inspection I saw no obvious blown parts, but the PCB near the 4 22k resistors was badly discolored, no obvious cracks. The fuse was still good but the pair of IF840's were both reading as dead shorts in both directions. I had a PQC250-12 from another project so quickly made the new harness's and used a Teflon sheet as an insulator between the harness and the new SMPS. Turned on and works perfectly. The power button is reversed as the PQC250 datasheet says that its J2 Pin 4 (PS-ON) which goes to the scope's Molex Pin 9 has to be pulled low to power on while the original CCH125 series its J6 Pin 6 to the scopes Molex Pin 9 has to be pulled High to power on. I am not a purist but I need the PQC250 for my original project so instead of buying another Murata, it seems the button logic on the Mean Well RPSG-160-12 should work same as original, so that's where I'm going next. Too bad this means making a new harness.Jerry NY2KW

author: jtmp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 23, 2022, 04:29:38 am
content: I have had the same blown power supply on a DSO-X 2012A, and replaced with a Mean Well RPS-400-12 following the advice above.However now I am getting a ~120mVp-p ripple @~4kHz on the scope trace, even with the probe shorted to ground.Have I done something wrong here, or are these power supplies much noisier than the original? I don't remember what I used to get but surely it wasn't this bad?!Cheers

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 08:01:24 pm
content: Old thread but still highly relevant.I finally had time to open my (10/2016) build DSOX3104T and was surprised to find the same troubled (??) supply, same revision, but with the GE branding. So my question for all. Did these supplies happen to come to this thread to die?Perhaps units that smoked, exploded or otherwise died had enough run time and heat to bring out the problems.With the nature of the problems, I would expect a high failure rate unless improvements were made without revision change.This problem, NAND corruption AND NAND LIFE IN GENERAL have me worried. If Daniel drops by, I would love to hear the Keysight take on these issues.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 09:22:26 pm
content: PSU seems to be fragile, at least in older DSOX2/3 models. Scope is newer fully off (ON/OFF switch is actually soft power-on) and 6W heat in standby has to go somewhere. One strategy to prolong PSU life is to disconnected mains externally when not in use.NAND issues seems to have been mitigated (at least partially) via FW updates.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 11:29:39 pm
content: The NAND issues have been masked by redundancy and error checking. The NAND chip has a life of 10 years on paper (Micron).It would be nice if someone could identify the SMPS used in scopes of recent builds. It only takes 5 minutes to peek at it. If it's the same model, that's disappointing. If it's changed, an ID might help with replacements.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 01:42:40 am
content: In the good old days (and now), HP and others would keep power on for critical areas (oscillators, converters, etc.). Some of those are now in the 40 year old range and still trucking. Enter the SMPS ...This SMPS power supply failure issue, especially when explosion of one or more components is involved, is disturbing enough to take affirmative action. For someone who keeps his cars ~15 years or more, the expensive little oscilloscopes is a close second.For our off shore friends running on 230v ac mains, the picture is not so good. For 120v, the resistors should pose no problem. From calculations, dissipation in each of the 22k resistors and approximate temperature rise for the mounted part is:120vac - 0.08 watts - estimated temperature rise 15 to 20 degrees230vac - 0.3 watts - estimated temperature rise 45 to 55 degreesAdd this to the temperature rise of the cap itself from ripple dissipation and you have a bad picture for 230v. Credit to poster rolkinas in reply #53 of this thread for his bleed resistor measurements.The killer is that if your scope is plugged in (most labs) this heat rise is constant.After finding several excellent quality supply replacements, I decided to replace only the cap with an 8000 hour part and change the resistors to 56k each. Combined, this should allow the scopes to last a LONG time.added - the above assessment was incorrect. The main capacitor has 390 volts across it on a 120v ac line.

author: CapLeaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 03:54:39 pm
content: Here is my run in on a Agilent DSO-X2012 power supply if that helps anyone.https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubleshooting-hardware-devices-and-electronics-theory/troubleshooting-game-consoles-other-weird-devices/86804-agilent-dso-x-2012a-no-power-repair

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 05:34:52 pm
content: Thanks. It points further at that cap. If an earlier poster is correct, that cap is rated for 3000 hours. That's only 4 months.Under "normal" use, this would stretch into years but with the resistors under it, all bets are off. You're in Canada though so the heat rise in that group wouldn't have added a whole lot but still could have been another 20 degrees C.I have two DSOX, one coming in from Keysight repair shortly. I'm going to open and look at both with an IR camera. I'll lose the forced air but this supply should easily handle the moderate load (from what I see on bench supplies). One scope is 2016 and the other is 2013 vintage.They are usually not supplied with ac so may appear more like new-ish.

author: CapLeaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 06:25:20 pm
content: I do know that Agilent didn’t make the power supply at least not for my 2012. It was a third party power supply. Look at my post at Badcaps, I had uploaded the flyer from Cherokee. At least they are easy to fix. If I remember right, the biggest problem of my repair was to find a capacitor that actually fit.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 06:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: EE-digger on January 17, 2024, 11:29:39 pm10 years for data retention, that is when you write once and leave it for 10 years. For erase/write cycles there should be a separate specs. For the Winbond NAND used in the DSOX 1200 (Linux- based) it is 100 000 cycles. So I'd say 10 years or 100 000 write cycles whatever comes first, for that particular IC.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 06:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: EE-digger on January 17, 2024, 08:01:24 pmIn the 1200x (Linux-based, black color) series scopes, including the EDUX 1052x model, beside the vanila ECC correction at NAND level, which does not seem helping much, they use UBIFS filesystem which has wear leveling feature. What it does is instead storing a file in a contiguous block of sectors, it sprinkles it all over the free pages across entire NAND partition. It also updates the erase counter for each page every time erase/wrire happens and monitors the counter against a set threshold. When a page erase counter exceeds the threshold, the page is marked bad and the data on it is moved to a new NAND page. This is general UBIFS feature, not specific to Keysight. They just decided to use UBIFS.While UBFS handles wear leveling, this may not help with random NAND cells corruption. I'd think plain corruption may still be happening, whatever a reason might be. On 1200x scopes Keysight has a separate Recovery kernel, which seems to be kicking in when normal boot cannot be performed.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 12:57:17 am
content: Posted some new findings on these supply failures here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/stunning-3000a-2000a-3000t-power-supply-discovery-must-read-if-you-have-one/msg5300998/#msg5300998On 120v mains, a new Murata vs the Scope factory supply is an eye opener. My pristine little 3000T was running at 397 volts when supply was removed and no load. Murata was at 168v.I may be missing the doubling+ mechanism for this but the voltage is there, the cap is very hot (will measure and image in the next days).For the most part, please reply in the other thread, I guess.

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:33:58 pm
content: Has anyone using the Murata PQC250 supply noticed a fair amount of audible noise from it, with or without load? I believe its coming from one inductor mounted on "stilts" toward the lower right corner (viewed with ac inlet on the left).Murata support says they've never heard noise from this series. If true, it may explain why I was able to buy theseI've used a number of medical SMPS and never had a noise issue.

author: peterbitter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 16, 2024, 09:42:47 pm
content: Can I ask you to share please the possible wiring of Meanwell power supply (Meanwell RPSG-160-12) with the KeysightMany thanks

author: Spacemouse
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 21, 2024, 10:15:04 am
content: Quote from: jtmp on September 23, 2022, 04:29:38 amHi! I had the same issue when I changed the power supply to one without sense inputs. The ripple was not that bad, but it was very disappointing as it would mean I could not use the oscilloscope. I remembered that in threads where people fixed the original PSU, the voltage was 12.7 or about that. Also, the PCB of the oscilloscope is marked with +13V, where the PSU output is fed into the oscilloscope. I turned the voltage to +13.0, and no ripple was seen.Last, I checked with a lab supply with +12V. The ripple was not as bad as with the AC PSU, but it was still clearly visible. I guess the lab supply does not handle long wires well when the currents are about 5A.Thanks, everyone, for your help. I was about to yield to Keysight and their 4200 EUR for the fix they offered.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:52:37 am
content: Hi i have this question reading the posts here and tasting the replaced PSU doesn t bring that much fun when it comes to the power button for example not talking about the fitting.why not repair the original PSU with components which will create not that high temps? for example those 4x 22k Resistors on the bottemside can also be replaced by 1 watt resistor not? and the 420v /100uF Cap with an other model. and when those resistors don t get that hot the cap will last much longer.

author: Eclipze
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2024, 07:54:08 am
content: Another DSO with a power supply self destructing. I'd previously replaced the resistors and added a small heatsink. This time the MOSFET failed. Likely capacitor issue.I replaced with the EPP-300-12. I liked the specs on it. The datasheet has all the connector parts and pinouts shown clearly. The power switch logic works the same. Mounting holes align. Although taller, it still squeezes in underneath the connector/wiring. Adjusted to 12.7V. Passed all self-tests and probe checks. Voltage ripple on 10mV scale is low, as usual. Back in service. Attached pictures in case anyone wants to double check their wiring using this power supply. I first powered up without the main connector fitted, to verify the 12V supply and no surprises.

author: IRF740
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 04:07:20 pm
content: I just purchased the PCQ250-12 as a replacement for the original supply in the DSOX 2000. With no load applied (sitting on my bench), it does emit noise. Have you heard of any possible solutions? Is the noise gonna be gone when it is loaded? It doesn't make any noise when the PS_ON signal is not asserted true (meaning the 12Vdc output is off).

author: EE-digger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2025, 02:12:19 pm
content: Sorry for the late response. I installed several of the Muratas and also spoke with a Murata engineer, but he no longer recalled any noise issues.You need to make a new power harness but the connector bodies and contacts are readily available from Digikey. Mounting is drop in as holes align without fussing.The noise is from one ceramic capacitor. If I touched that cap with a probe or dental pick, it sounded and felt like a dentist's drill. I tried potting it with some success but then stripped that and replaced the cap with a Murata PNKRM31KC81E106KH01Llow acoustic noise part. These are elevated by their end terminal structure and are far less prone to resonate with board generated noise.Also, the 2nd image shows how to modify the power on/off option so it works normally. This information is in the Murata datasheet, just not very readable. There are only 3 steps but you will need a 1k and 10k resistor.On/Off mods for DSOX/MSOX normal operation:Noisy cap location:

author: moreasm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 06:59:33 am
content: Hi,I also had the same problem with my oscilloscope power supply.I tried to repair it but I preferred to replace it with the "Meanwell RPS-400-12".Now it works again, without any problems.