Counterfeit Hakko FX-951 & FG-100. Information on fake items and eBay's policy. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 12:24:10 am
content: Update:See the end of this post for links on receiving a fake Hakko FG-100 product, proving it's fake, opening a case with eBay, and my thoughts on the whole experience with eBay and their counterfeit policy.Notice:This first one I found seems to be the beginning of a flood of fake Hakka FX-951 units. Like when most fakes hits the market it starts off slow and more start to get listed until it's hard to find a authentic item you want to buy.I've now found 4 of these same fake FX-951 units listed without looking much.I've also updated details on how to identify the fake unit below.And added new pictures.I'm looking for a FX-951 just to use with a micro pen FM-2032.In my research it was easy to identify the most common fake Hakko stations and clones like the FX-888 and 888D, or the 936 to name a few of the most common counterfeit Hakko stations. But up until now I didn't know of any FX-951 fakes, then I saw this add on eBay. So just wanted to let you know I have now run across a fake of the FX-951 also.Only one so far,but they are probably being sold on other sites and not eBay because of eBay's policy against counterfeiting.In the add itself they call it a "FX-951 style" soldering station, but if it has the Hakko name or logo then it's a counterfeit, if not then it's a replica. But at the bottom of the sale with the pictures you will see some of the pictures have the Hakko logo at the top of the station, some only have logo at the bottom, others have both top and bottom, and some have logo name at all with just the FX-951 displayed on it.How to identify a counterfeit Hakka FX-951 from the sales ad pictures.1. The font is horrible with the "1" in the 951 running into the "ESD Safe" text. You may need to look at the pictures in the sale description to see this clearly.2. The iron holder is not a sleep holder and does not have a switch for putting the iron to sleep.The FX-951 kit that comes with the 2027 iron includes the sleep holder. All FX-951 have the ability to sleep the iron to prevent oxidation on the tips so they last longer.3. The back of the unit has a port to plug in the sleep cable from the iron holder to the main unit. This is a standard TRRS 1/8 stereo headphone type of port.4. The pictures don't show the sleep cable and the description doesn't mention the sleep cable. This is a standard TRRS (tip ring ring sleeve) 1/8 style headphone stereo cable. It should have the headphone jack on both ends, one end plugs into the back of the FX-951 base and the other plugs into the back of the iron stand holder.5. This kit comes with the gold brass shavings iron tip cleaner, not the sponge.From a casual look, this top print on the station is the most obvious way to recognize it's a a fake unit besides the price of $99 US for a brand new Hakko station.The pictures are photo shopped, just like the box looking authentic but missing the Hakko name. The reason they probably did this is because of eBay's policy on selling counterfeit items. They also think calling it a FX-951 style soldering station will help keep the sale up and store going, but it won't if someone buys it and shows the pictures that have the Hakko name on them in the sale.I know a while ago I bought a GBIP adapter from Amazon that was fake, and a few other little kits from other sites as well. For eBay purchases, if you can prove the item is intended to deceive the buyer, uses the companies name and or logo on the item then eBay will refund you and ask you NOT to return the item. Instead they ask you agree to dispose of the fake and not to sell it to anyone else.EBay's policy on counterfeit items is covered under the money back guarantee policy as stated below on August 6, 2017.https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.htmlThe section on fakes copied from the policy as of August 6, 2017*Counterfeit items*If a buyer suspects that an item is counterfeit, and there are strong indicators that the item is counterfeit, we don't require the buyer to return the item to the seller. The buyer agrees to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of the item. In such instances, we refund the buyer for the full cost of the item and original shipping, and the seller reimburses us for the refund. The buyer may not sell the item on eBay or elsewhere.Now only if Amazon will do the same since fighting counterfeit items take up a lot of resources, money, avoid taxes. I'm almost sure the store I bought the fake GBIP adapter from is still running and selling them on Amazon.According to Share America (https://share.america.gov/whats-wrong-with-buying-counterfeit-goods/)*Because most counterfeit goods are produced in sweatshops run by organized crime, profits often support terrorist groups, drug smugglers, sex traffickers and street gangs. Sweatshops, in turn, are notorious for violating child-labor laws and basic human rights, and many workers are coerced through a system of indentured servitude, a form of modern-day slavery.Not to mention can be a electrical safety issue or chase death by electrocution of it not wired correctly, or even burn down your depwellong if it catches fire also.And according to the IACC it's a world wide problem and affects everyone. I applaud the work that the IACC does, but they have one idea of governing the internet that would also be a direct conflict of the Net Neutrality. And it's bad enough that the freedom of Net Neutrality seems to be constantly threatened already.http://www.iacc.org/online-initiatives/aboutSo if you buy a fake, or think it might be a fake please report it and help stop this from happening. If you are having a hard time confirming if it's real or fake I'm sure plenty of people on the EEVBlog would be willing to tear down the authentic version and provide pictures of the real thing and help you prove or confirm the item is a fake. Don't forget about eBay's policy, and maybe we can also push for Amazon to start doing the same kind of policy that eBay has.Click this for an example listing on eBay of the counterfeit Hakko FX-951UPDATE For Fake FG-100So it seems I get to test out eBay's "Money Back Guarantee" policy regarding Counterfeit Itemss. I received a counterfeit Hakko FG-100. Follow the links to my update posts:Direct Video LinkUpdate 1, Receiving a counterfeit Hakko FG-100 and proving that it's fake (See Video):Update 1 PostUpdate 2, My experience opening a case with eBay:Update 2 PostUpdate 3, Communications with the seller:Update 3 PostUpdate 4, the counter offer from the seller:Update 4 PostUpdate 5, the refund and listing not removed as promised.Update 5 PostUpdate 6, Reaching the End of my Journey.This is the final post on the fake Hakko FG-100, and how the seller lied and appeared to be honest, but went back on their word as soon as the refund case was closed. And how I took it to the next level, and who to talk with for this.Update 6 PostI will continue to update the thread until this is resolved with eBay, check back for updates.

author: dave_k
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 02:31:25 am
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 12:24:10 amGlancing across the bench at my genuine FK-951 it's also apparent the fake case is missing the Hakko logo molded into the side of the case...

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 04:37:01 am
content: Quote from: dave_k on August 07, 2017, 02:31:25 amGood to know since I should be getting one this week with the sleep stand, the FM-2027 sleeve, and two tips that I won from an eBay auction. Seems it was a kit originally.The seller has used the same pictures for the last five FK-951 units he sold, so I didn't have actural good pictures to go off of. I placed the starting bid @ $140, gave it $20 more and figured if someone bids against me then oh well and went to bed. Didn't really expect to win it, but no one else did any bids and I won.And looking at the feedback this seller sells nothing but open box slightly used Hakko stations of all kinds like the induction unit and nitro unit, not just the know fake ones. All goood feedback, %100 good with no revised in the last year and he has sold about 680 Hakko station in the last few years.So I don't know if the seller resells the returned units that are returned to authorized resellers, or what? But he doesn't say anything in his last auctions about refurbished or repaired.I'll find out more when I receive it.Now I just need to find a FM-2032 sleeve and a J tip and I'll be a happy camper. What I was using for micro soldering broke a few weeks ago, I didn't think I would miss it that much since I have a normal iron I'm happy with, but I was wrong. So the whole point of this shopping expedition is for the pen micro iron tips.Scott

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 05:33:28 am
content: I wouldn't normally bid on someone that uses the same pictures on something like the Hakko station, but it's a budget thing and I'm hoping the counterfeit policy covers auctions also.This is what prompted me to do all the research on the topic. So since I'm active in the thread about the Agilent fake GBIP USB adapters mostly also being sold and bought on eBay I figured I would type up something for new people asking suggestions on things to buy, and those looking for used or cheaper priced items on a budget like me. I can only hope this helps bring attention to the new people looking to but things starting off in the hobby, so they don't end up with a counterfeit product feeling like they were conned. This was the main reason I decided to type this up.Most of these questions seem to be in the test equiptment section, and why I posted it in this section. If I knew about the eBay policy when I bought the GBIP adapter I would have bought it from eBay and not Amazon. But then I was thinking prime would be easier to do returns with if I had an issue. Posting about the new home lab addition you thought you found a good deal on and being told you bought a fake for $130 is a big downer.The more I looked into it, the more I realized how much this impacted so many different parts of the world and peoples life's. Not just what it might fund, but also the areas counterfeits are being manufactured in from electronics that can be a fire hazard or electrical hazard to people. To things like sun glasses, purses, clothing, sneakers, health care products, medications, car air bags and so much more. I've even discovered counterfeit items in a big chain stores and they had no idea they were selling the fake item and pulled them off the shelves. I think they were fake Duracell AA batteries that leaked in a month after being put in a remote control. Not only do individuals get conned but buyers for store chains, and even distributors.I tried to point out the difference between a replica and a counterfeit or forgeries. I guess replicas are more like the generic food items at the food market. It's the same, but not really. Maybe cheaper or slightly different ingredients. But even the generic branded food items still have to account for saftey of the food and the people who eat it. Patents will expire and replicas will be made, not always at the same quality and probably at a lower cost but will still sometimes do just as good of a job, I will buy things like this also as a hobbyist. The counterfeits try to use the same name and branding and charge a higher price then what it's really worth without permission to manufacture them from the original company. With counterfeit items they also mostly disregard any saftey aspect. In the case of electronics they put any and all rating symbols on the item without any actural testing. This is the stuff that usually people feel ripped off, lied to and fund things with organized crime. Their is a difference between replicas or generic brands and counterfeits and fakes. Mostly the name being the same, company logos, looking exactly like the real thing and and the extra cost that you think your paying for quality and the reputation of the product, or warranty.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:52:25 am
content: I can't see eBay being interested when the text in the auction states:-Note: This solder station is High Quality Copy Model, and for avoide the trademark infringement problem, the LOGO of HAKKO will remove from now - 2015-08-11th. Thanks:)So they have been aware of the issue for almost two years.They really should remove the remaining photos with the Hakko logo though...

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 02:37:24 pm
content: Having the seller admits that the item is a copy does not change the fact that the item is counterfeit.Hakko is actively defending their intellectual property:https://www.hakko.com/english/company/intellectual_property/

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 03:40:36 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 07, 2017, 02:37:24 pmMaybe in some countries it's illegal to purchase counterfeit, but that's the first I've heard of it beingillegal to purchase counterfeit in the US. It like selling satellite or cable boxes that can decrypt the signal without paying for the service as long as its stated that's the box is for testing purposes only, somehow this makes its legal to sell and buy. Just illegal to use. Those pesky grey spaces in the laws.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 05:45:00 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 03:40:36 pmAre you sure that in United States it is "legal" to buy (or own) something that was illegally manufactured?A few years ago, a shipment of DMM that had been imported by Sparkfun was seized by the US Customs, and later destroyed.If you google "Fluke vs Sparkfun" you will find the story.And these DMM were not even counterfeit; it was a case of trademark infringement.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 06:32:21 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 07, 2017, 05:45:00 pmI remember that, it was a different case all together. That was fluke pushing customs to stop all meters from coming into tje country using the colors that fluke owns writes to. It was more of a patent infringement / trademark enforcement. They still had to get a judge to sign off on it first I think proving that the other DMMs were using the fluke colors on purpose to increase sales.The way it was written made it sound like you break the law if you own a forgery. What if you bought something and didn't know it was a forgery and you were conned as well, then you get fined also?I think maybe in the US it illegal to own a supply of forgeries with the intent to sell them or distribute them. But not just illlegal to own one. If that was the case then I'm guilty twice for owning a counterfeit, but I didn't know it was originally when I bought it. So then I would be the victim and the criminal?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 06:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 03:40:36 pmDefinitely the same here in Germany: Purchasing, owning and using pirated products isnotan offense. (As long as you don't do it for the purpose of trading the products commercially; that of courseisillegal.)The only risk for the buyer of a counterfeit product (in small quantities, which are in line with personal use) is that customs may seize the product upon import. So you may lose the price you paid, if you can't get your money back from the vendor.While I applaud Hakko for pushing back on counterfeit products, they are spreading some fear, uncertainty and doubt with incorrect statements there. Probably intentionally.

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:06:05 pm
content: Ebay don't really do anything for counterfeit item listings. I've bought and reported (fully, in great detail) counterfeit items in the past and you get full money back but the item listing was still up and selling last I checked, with a bunch of other fakes from the seller (fake GPUs, if you're wondering). Isn't there a bunch of fake 888 & 888Ds on there constantly?

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:08:44 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 07, 2017, 06:43:40 pmI guess it also depends on what Hakko site you on also. If I go to Hakko.com, select USA I get redirected to HakkoUSA.com and I can't find this poster or a site search. Even the advanced search in the USA site is only for products.If I go back to Hakko.com and select other countries since it's English I can can't read the other languages then I see the full main site. A simp,e search for counterfeit give me an error, no product by that name and offers an advanced search. Then if I use that advanced search I was able to find the poster that SkyMaster put up with other articles about intellectual property, counterfeit raids in Indonesia, and a bunch of stuff not available on the hakkousa site or maybe other sites depending in what country you choose.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:12:08 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 06:32:21 pmManufacturing counterfeit (clone) is worst then an unauthorized use of a trademark. In the case of Fluke, the yellow holster is trademarked, nobody else can use it.The counterfeit Hakko products are made to look like legitimate Hakko products, down to the warranty card and marking on the box.It seems that these types of law are typically not enforced on the little man who own a single item; it would not make economical sense. Seizing a "large" shipment at the border is more effective, and hurt the importer financially.Most, if not all, the counterfeit Hakko sellers, on eBay, are located in China; it seems that nobody want to risk to import a large shipment of counterfeit Hakko products in United States.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: mikeys on August 07, 2017, 07:06:05 pmI don't know how recent this counterfeit clause is. I know that I used to see a lot of Hakko FG-100, but now they are all just called FG-100 without the Hakko name and logo. Still the same colors. I don't know if you still get one that says Hakko in the mail and the photo is just edited with the name removed?I sort of want to do a video on the topic also, maybe I'll buy one of the FG-100 and see if it comes in a Hakko fake box and all.As for the 888D I don't see many fakes anymore. I looked for one and it's posable the pictured is of a real one and you cans till be mailed a fake one I guess.I know their is still a lot of fake Agilent GBIP adapters on eBay, but they are all listed as used now instead of new. A few of them are still new, but most seem to be used. Those can be hard to tell unless they out up the full pictures of the box and all. If it's just the adapter then it's hit or miss, you won't know until you get it.I would like to think the price would be a dead givaway with them, but the HP34401A is being phased out, and so is the GBIP along with it since the new meters use USB. So I would expect a real one to be priced about the same as they are priced. Over the next few years as companies refresh the meters, decide to buy new ones instead of calibrating them more of the real used GBIP adapters will also hit eBay and get mixed with the fake used ones.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:26:57 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 07, 2017, 07:12:08 pmWhy make it up when you can look it up?In most countries there is no law against buying and owning counterfeit products;this is also true in Canada:QuoteSays the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fep-pelf/ipr-dpi/faq-eng.htmI don't intend to defend product piracy here; quite to the contrary. But I don't see the point in spreading uncertainty about the facts and legal situation.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:31:31 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 07, 2017, 07:12:08 pmThe sad part is the little man still gets hurt one way or another. Even if you break it down to simplicity and forget about the funding crime, human trafficking, and all that other stuff I originally posted.The government runs on money, the money comes from the people's taxes including the little man. The customs or boarder patrol budget comes from this collection of taxes and is paid by the government.So one way or another everyone is affected.That's the simpleton way of looking at it of course, it's much more complex then that and the problem affects a lot more then just the simple break down.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 07:42:39 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 07, 2017, 07:26:57 pmI don't think anyone took your comment as defending piracy.I've been saying it for years now, it's a world wide economy when it comes to manufacturing, sales, and purchasing goods. But the laws don't meet up with this world wide way of shopping online. Each country has their own laws, some apply to online as well as locally and cross over, some are new for online only. But they can be different from one country to another.I was personally debating on looking up some of my local laws for the purpose of maybe doing some videos and showing teardown of real vs fake items. Basically this topic in video form with some fake stuff just for the video. Then again I may be sunrised when I receive some of the stuff I already bought and haven't received yet. Maybe some if it will be fake when I get it in the mail?

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 11:55:48 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 07:20:26 pmI think it's always been there, as I said I got a full refund and didn't have to send the item back. I pretty much just looked at the card, saw a bunch of "recycled" and dodgy looking components and there was a Chinglish driver disk (edited driver to work with their unofficial bios), the proper driver wouldn't work with it so I took the heatsink off and the chip was a 9600m or something rather than the 650ti gpu it was supposed to be, about 10 years older. I posted all of this to the ebay counterfeit complaint, got my money back after a bit of back and forth with the seller, and the listing's been there ever since. They'd sold about a thousand fakes to people I assume were either bots or unfortunately didn't know better as there was a bunch of good reviews. They even started selling more fakes of different models and ebay still allow it, here's one that's still up and there's loads of listings for this from other sellers about.http://www.ebay.com/itm/nVIDIA-GeForce-GTX750Ti-1GB-DDR5-VGA-DVI-HDMI-PCI-Expressx16-Video-Graphics-Card-/222543332971?hash=item33d09dc66bIf you're going to pick up an try to find out if it's a counterfeit, just have a reference for what a real one looks like on the insides and what the performance is supposed to be like. Some of the fake 888Ds have almost identical casing (except not ESD safe, just looks the same) and the only differences you can tell with using them is that they take ages to heat up and the cord is crappy plastic, but if you'd never used a real one, you'd probably never know. Ebay will give you your money back if you want to satisfy your curiosity, but I really doubt they'll remove listings.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 01:32:12 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 07, 2017, 07:26:57 pmebastler, you provided a link to the RCMP which is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, thank you for this, but this is not the Canadian laws.The link you provided contains the followings "The RCMP is particularly interested in the investigation of counterfeit products posing health and safety risks to Canadians or where organized crime groups are involved.". I do not think that the the counterfeit Hakko products are posing a health risk.Infringing copyright, trademark or intellectual property is not a criminal offense; the police will not intervene to arrest somebody for possession.But the person, or company, that was infringed upon may come after the person who is in possession of the "illegal" product. The person, or company, that was infringed upon bear the responsibility of filling a lawsuit. It may not make economical sense for a person, or company, to file a lawsuit against an individual for a low value item. This is what I was making reference to in my previous posts.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 07:30:46 am
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 08, 2017, 01:32:12 amI don't know?? Wasn't one of the fake Hakko models missing the mains earth groundand wasn't really ESD safe as it stated? This could pose a health risk, right?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 09:14:53 am
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 08, 2017, 01:32:12 amYes, I am aware of the difference between law enforcement and lawmaking. We have the same concept here.But I trust the RCMP to summarize the Canadian laws correctly, and I am too lazy to start Googling for the full text of the law...

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 03:26:43 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 08, 2017, 07:30:46 amThere is a safety risk for sure. A similar situation exist with the hot air rework station 858Dhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-stationMy WEP 858D fuse holder crumbled into pieces when I touched itThe up side is these are not customer products; the people who buy these should know what they are doing.The hot air rework station 858D have no certification marks. But I presume that fake Hakko products have all sort of certification marks; all false of course.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 10:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on August 08, 2017, 03:26:43 pmI've seen electronic items with certifications on them this had nothing to do with electronics.For some reason your like to the 858D didn't work, but I was able to find it in a search:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/I think it was just missing the forward slash at the end?I'll have to read over it later, but doesn't surprise me.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 07:14:36 am
content: Speaking of fake Hakko items, I know this used to be a popular one. At one point they removed the Hakko name and logo from them and now just sell them as FM-100But some of the fakes are still on eBay listed for a much higher price as expected. So o guess I can see how eBay responds to their policy and if the store remains open after I finish filing the compliant.Click for YouTube Video

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 07:30:52 am
content: Sorry but I'm guilty of buying one of these fake FX-951 Hako stationsI just couldn't afford the real one from Mektronics at the time. Trying to do product development and design in Australia - you need all of the help you can get - the cost of living is such a ripoff here and the government seems to like it that way in order to prop up its fake services economy. So I say buy a fake iron for a fake economyAnd for the price that they charge you for one tip you can buy 10 tips from Ali-express of all different shapes and sizesThe only thing this fake iron doesn't do is automatically turnoff of the tip even though it offers the option in its menus. It doesn't seem to work for some reason so if you need that function go with the genuine item as it has it has it physically built into the iron holder. I just turn the iron off at the switch when I am finished with itAccording to Louis Rossman this iron or should I say the genuine version is nearly as good as the more expensive JBC and according to a colleague of mine the JBC is not that great a build quality and certainly not designed to be repaired without paying out the big bucks !!

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2017, 08:42:46 am
content: Speaking as a person who has personally beta tested aoyue products for them becuase they want to know about the bugs and have a working product, I would say that's better then some unknown forgery.After all my aoyue station will take Hakko T18 tips, and the tips are probably the only real difference. How hard is it for a transformer to heat up a ceramic heater, and micro chip to monitor the temp and turn on and off the power to the heater.As for the Ali express tips for the FX-951 I've read nothing good about them, just you get what you pay for. The authentic tips have over 100 options, so that's not an issue ormreason to go with a fake tip. The resistance of the heater taking on to much power and burning out in less then a months use, that's a reason to use a real authentic 951 tips. I wonder what the resistance measures on your fake tip heaters? Or what the gauge of wire is used coiled up in the ceramic? What kind of wire, is it copper , steal, or something designed to take in heat like Nichrome wire?I don't know. It took a bit of searching but I found a good seller that sells real stuff and some used, some new, mostly over stock from companies that need to unload for a new budget next year. I paid $10 for the micro J tip new, usually $36, two other tips for the 2027 usually $16, I paid $6 new in package.Found him on eBay, and was shocked no one bid against me, maybe they all thought it was a fake one since the price was low? But it took a little time and research, asking wuations and looking at feedback over the last two years on the account. I was one of the lucky ones and ended up with a new 951 not a slightly used one with the sleep stand, one tip, a few sleeves, and the 2027 for $150.So I asked about the micro upgrade 2032, he sold me one for $130 new.They were just in plain OEM boxes, not a big deal. The money I saved I got some other real tips from tequiotment with the EEVBlog discount.I'm sure the real one and real tips will outlast and be safer then any fake one, just my opinion.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 06:15:17 am
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 24, 2017, 07:14:36 amWell as I mentioned in the video "I will have to test eBay's counterfeit money back guarantee" policy.It's been interesting so far. And part of me want to say it doesn't make sense. Ebay had all this media attention for fighting counterfeit items, but the process from the buyers side....well let's say it's been interesting so far. I decided to share my experience and I'll keep the thread updated until this case is closed so others know what to do, and what not to do.I could not find any way to start the money back guarantee without tipping off the seller that I was aware the item is fake. I would think eBay would want to investigate the item without letting the seller know so they can't remove the item, or close the store and just open another store? Maybe they have ways to prevent this, I don't know since I've never sold anything on eBay. So I called eBay, don't bother following instruction on the website for help or looking for a way to contact them. I was just put in an endless loop telling me to start a return with the seller or put to a page with "Ask the community". Again, I didn't want to tip the seller off also figuring eBay wouldn't want the seller to know they are potentially under investigation for selling fraudulent items.So finally I Googled for eBay phone number and was able to talk to a persons expecting a different result. To my surprise they had me open a return with the seller and practically ignored the fact that I was telling them about a counterfeit item being sold. I was instructed to select the reason for the return as "Doesn't Seem Authentic". She said if the seller agrees to refund the item with a return then eBay won't need to get involved. I asked about the counterfeit part and read the part about NOT returning counterfeit items to the selle, and the part about eBay refunds me and then get the money back from the seller. She informed me a few times that this is with the money back guarantee and eBay can not get involved until three days after I request a return and ignored the part about not shipping it back to the seller. But she did say the seller will have to pay for the return shipping label. I asked about attaching pictures for proof, I was told I can add it later if it get escalated to eBay but it's not needed now. I should just write that the item is fake for the return reason.So what's wrong with this whole thing, so many parts. I'm thinking most seller will just offer a full refund and close the return request before the three days preventing eBay from getting involved. Or maybe even providing a shipping label and full refund, but again this would close the return case and prevent eBay from being involved. If they are not involved then the seller can continue to sell the fake item and rip off other people. Most people will just take the full refund and move on, but what about the people that don't know the bought a fake? So for me to test out eBay word on how they are against counterfeit items I need to go back and forth with messages for three days, at least one message a day to keep the return case open before I can escalate to get eBay involved.Then I found a part of the site you can report fake items being sold. Just search for "File A Report" and choose "Copyright and Trademark" as the first selected category. I thing the other selections are along the same, counterfeit items being sold. Select the item and open a report. Then you have to describe why or how your know it's fake and they expect you to do this in 50 characters or less. What??? 50 character, that's all??? I can send a tweet bigger then this. So basically you can't really describe or prove anything with a few words on why something is counterfeit. After you open the case they show you a disclaimer that's states they will not be able to update you in the report to protect the seller privacy, that the sellers store might remain open if the seller didn't know the item they are selling is fake. And I wouldn't be surprised if nothing comes from this case and the item keeps selling also.So does eBay really care if counterfeit items are being sold?Or do they just care about taking part of the money for the sale when all is said and done?Will they really investigate based on the report I filed with a few words?Is the counterfeit clause just for getting your money back if the seller doesn't offer a full refund, and eBay continues to let counterfeit items be sold as long as they gat paid?Are they being hypocritical in their policies?Or did I just get a customer service rep on the phone that doesn't know enough about eBay's own policies and directed to me to do the wrong thing?I think I will call back and see if I get someone else that tells me something else, maybe someone who is familiar with the counterfeit clause of the money back guarantee policy?I guess time will tell, I'll keep the thread updated. The only thing I suggest at this point is if you care about the fakes being sold to other also then don't accept the seller return offer. Wait the three days, and get ebay involved under the "money back guarantee" policy.If the customer service rep claims they can't help because the seller offered a refund they point out the clause in the modney back guarantee policy about counterfeit items and hold them to it. As of now, they are not following their own policy with me, eBay should be refunding me like it states and telling me to throw out the fake item. I shouldn't even have to deal with the seller or be wasting my time with the seller. This leaves me little faith in eBay's claims and policies if they can't follow them, then what kind of guarantee do you really have?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2017, 08:35:10 am
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 24, 2017, 08:42:46 amI haven't had any trouble with the tips I have used so far. There are so many shapes and sizes and each is packaged in what appears to be authentic Hakko packaging. The only problem I can see is that the sleep mode on the 'fake' controller does not appear to work properly and this may result in premature failure of the tips unless you remember to switch the iron off after you have used it.Look I'm not trying to condone IP theft in any way because I am the last one who wants their IP to be ripped off by a freeloading parasite. But there is a bigger picture here with so many large corporations appeasing share holders greed and shipping local jobs over to china and in the end being bitten on the backside by theft of their IP by a country who does not respect copyright and patent law !! Honestly what did they expect was going to happen ??There is literally a mass disappearance of the middle class in the US because greedy corporations looking to increase profits couldn't wait to shut up shop and move their factories and local jobs over to china to take advantage of the cheap labour force. As a result the very people these corporations were hoping to sell their made in china imported goods to no longer have jobs and can no longer afford to pay for these imported goods. As a result there is a epidemic of dying shopping malls in the US because of this phenomena !!

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 04:29:55 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on August 26, 2017, 08:35:10 amHaha he thinks this is a recent thing that many American believe debt is the pathway to prosperity, or that "You've arrived". He talks like this is just the last couple of generations. In 42 and grew up in a household with 2 working parent that made 40K+ a year, and when they divorced we were broke. Both filing bankruptcy in a year. No savings, no money for the kids to go to college, college fund, what's that?This is nothing new, this didn't happen because jobs and manufacturing got shipped off to another country. Ok, I'm sure that didn't help and it might have added to it a little bit. But the point is this is nothing new.I'm a better person for it growing up like that, some follow to be like their parents, some learn from them even if it's from their mistakes and do the opposite. I chose to do the opposite. Do I have credit cards, yes. Why not, I'm mean they offer you free money 5% back monthly. Ok, well free for me because out of 11 card none of them have an debt on them. As long as you lay them monthly, live within you means then it free bonus money. Why should the banks get to keep it, so take some back but pay it off every month, i ususaly pay it off the same week I buy something.As for IP and manufacturing outside the country, yes some companies have been stupid to hand the keys to the kingdom over without knowing the risk or protecting their treasures. Still why let criminal organizations and drug trafficking be the next in line behind the governments because they have the money from taking advantage of consumers selling counterfeit items. Some countries claim to have a government, but do they really when most of the people in power are also in the pockets of these organized criminal organizations? Are these the organizations you want to step up when and if the government or economy falls?You have a make a choice sometimes, and sometimes the options suck and all you get to pick from is the better of two evils.Playing devils advocate some companies have protected themselves despite exporting manufacturing, the firmware was encrypted, and so was the software for installing it. And some of these items still get copied, not as good but good enough to fool someone into buying it. Even if it was manufactured in the country it's designed won't stop them from buying one and still making a counterfeit version. They don't need the manufacturing plant to reverse engineer the item and copy it. So I'm not convinced exporting manufacturing added to the counterfeiting side of things. Some of the most popular counterfeited items specifically like Hakko isn't even made in the US, I think it's made in a country some of the US manufacturing was exported to? They are at least aware of the issue and protect themselves as good as they can.When I found a bug testing with Aoyue they sent me a chip, I asked why not just email me the bin file and I'll flash it. They refused to because they fear someone copying the code. Same with Korad, they send me a whole new control board, twice with the updated firmware preloaded. Well at least I have spare parts for the power supplies I've tested. Ok, so Aoyue may have copied some of Hakko look and feel of older stuff, so did a lot of over seas 3D printer companies copy Makerbot replicator designs and they wouldn't have a comonay if it wasn't an open source project at one point. But at least I know the money is going to a company developing and making new things, trying their own ideas, support current product sales and fixing bugs when it reported and not to some unknown organization that does who knows what with the money.It's buisness, their is hardly any ground breaking originality these days expect for software features. Even my 110 year old Edison phonograph surprised me when I opened it to repair it and found a broken governor that was very similar to many car transmitions for 50 year. Over 110 year and no ones fingered a better way to do this, just a way to do it cheaper?

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 05:28:17 am
content: As interesting of a topic about malls closing this may be (I don't realize it since I don't go to malls often) I'm going to interject with an update on my experance thus far returning a counterfeit item as promised.I received this message from the seller the other day:"Dear friend, We will confirm the item with our supplier and reply you later, please wait for us patiently, thank you."Then late last night, easily this morning I received this:"Dear friend, We confirmed with our supplier, this item is not original, they cheated us.We would like to refund you USD5.00 as compensation, do you agree with it? Or do you have other suggestion? Please advise. Really sorry about this, wish to get your understanding. Thank you very much."So I replied to the seller with this tonight:"I need a real on for a review on Hakko equiptment compared to other manufacturers soldering equipment. So I'll have to look for a real used one or rent one. But the $5 won't help me since this is something I can't use and the remaining cost is needed to find a real one,I can't use a fake Hakko item to test real Hakko soldering statiiins and deceive my viewers. I hope you understand, but I have to decline your offer.Thank you,Scott"After my reply a page came up with the following confirmation:"We'll send you an email when the seller responds to your request. If you have not agreed on a solution or the seller has not responded by Aug 29, 2017, you can ask us to step in and help.If you and your seller need more time to work things out, your request will stay open until Oct 06, 2017."My Thoughts1. I find it hard to believe the seller didn't know the were selling a fake for new at less then 75% off the retail price.2. It should be an easy investigation to prove it was a counterfeit item since the seller admitted it in an message to me.3. I have to rember that the seller may have already been notified they were reported for selling a fake item, as I fpdid file a report before I was able to talk with someone from eBay. So them claiming they were also "cheated" may be a last ditch effort to save their eBay account. Or a setup for their defense with eBay.So I replied thus way the seller can't say I didn't reply and have ebay close the case, but I was sure to include wording turning down the offer. I'm curious to see if the seller does a counter offer with a full refund before I'm allowed to involve eBay and test the Money Back Guarantee policy.As before, I'll keep you updated.

author: mikeys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2017, 11:39:33 am
content: This is essentially the same experience I had with the fake I mentioned earlier in the thread. Seller tried to refund me a token amount, then said I can return it at my own cost for a full refund. At that point, I didn't bother replying and just waited the three days, contacted ebay and had my full refund and got to keep the product (which went into the nearest electronics recycling bin). They did nothing about the fake listing though.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 10:07:26 am
content: Quote from: mikeys on August 27, 2017, 11:39:33 amWell it looks like this seller will also get away with it. I didn't even make it the three days and at least they offered a full refund. So now that they offered a full refund if I involve eBay they will probably tell me that can't do anything since a full refund was offered and they pulled the listing from the store. So they also stopped selling the item.Message today from the seller, the counter offer:Dear Scott, We can fully understand you, we thought it is real too, but the supplier cheated us, we will be more careful in future. We have ended the listing and would like to give you a full refund. Can you please understand us?So in the end it looks like eBay policy might be flawed in several ways. Maybe the seller offered this and pulled the listing because I opened up a report to eBay, but I will never know since the seller won't tell me and eBay won't tell me either.Or maybe the seller really didn't know it was fake?Who knows if any other items on the store are also counterfeit?Ebay probably won't do anything directly related to my sale. But they may be doing something from the report I made. The problem is I can't confirm that since they made it clear they won't give any updated.Maybe the seller pulled it because they were scammed into selling a fake, maybe eBay pulled it because of the report and they are just spinning it to look like they are the good guys still with my sale?Should I still wait it out a day and see if eBay want to do anything in addition, I think if I involve them after a full refund was offered they will just ignore the case and consider it closed. But it still might be interesting to get eBay's official stance on it?I guess either way one item has been removed for now that had more then 10 in stock, so others won't also get ripped off going forward. So I should take this as a small win. I just hope the seller doesn't have more then one account and just moved it to another account and only eBay would be able to sometimes see this.So the question really should be is the counterfeite policy so customers feel safer buying things on eBay.Or is eBay really against counterfeit items?Or maybe they are like any other big company and they don't really care as long as they get their 20% of the money?What do you think?

author: lypse
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 10:48:03 am
content: Quote from: dave_k on August 07, 2017, 02:31:25 amIm pretty sure some fakes have the moulded logo, since mine do and it was purchased from aliexpress.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 01:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 28, 2017, 10:07:26 amWell, what else could you ask for? The seller offers you a full refund, they pull the listing -- what else could they do, or what would you expect ebay to do? Neither you nor ebay can prove that the seller knew they were offering a counterfeit item.Will the seller silently relist the item in a few weeks? Maybe. Will ebay actively monitor the seller and catch them doing that? Not bloody likely. Will you actively monitor them? Up to you; I would not bother, I guess.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2017, 11:55:22 pm
content: these sellers know their items are fake. most of them will capitulate and offer partial refund if you challenge them. you can bet their partial refund still allows them healthy profit margin.there's a lot of counterfeiters on amazon as well.

author: Vernichtung
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 29, 2017, 12:12:49 am
content: Thanks for this!I recently purchased unknowingly a Hakko fume extractor from Ebay and put it on here.I suggest taking photos and complaining directly to Hakko as Ebay supports the sellers and demands you provide evidence the item is fake.Hakko will surely want to distance themselves from the product if indeed it is counterfeit but whatever you do DO NOT send the item back to the seller.It is in the case of Australia illegal to post it for one and secondly they will just send it to another person they deceived.Thirdly they wont stop unless it becomes less profitable.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2017, 07:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 28, 2017, 01:04:22 pmWell I'm sure the seller is blowing smoke up my @$# when it comes to taking a listing down. I've checked the listing for times over the last three days since he said that and it's still out there. I think The seller is hoping to just off the last few units and the new buyers don't notice that there counterfeit.But yeah, at this point I will except the of a full refund. I don't think eBay is going to do anything extra above or beyond meet there policy. The listing was reported, but he's going to sell them on the out of stock before eBay if you get a chance to investigate that report.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2017, 09:58:58 pm
content: Update 5, the finaleSo after some thought I decided to reply to the seller and excepted counter offer. They did not specify whether they wanted me to return the item or not, so I was kind of expecting that to be the next email from them. I guess they are familiar surprise with eBay's policy. After thinking about it I realized because of the claim filed for the return they would have to pay the return shipping and that would probably cost them more than what they paid for the item to begin with.My replyHello, yes please refund the cost for this. Thank you, ScottThe ResultThe seller issued a refund noting the following in the email I received from eBay."You don't need to return this item to the seller - you can keep the item."As of today writing this post the listing for this item is still for sale with four remaining.Maybe I'm expecting too much?Maybe I should still involve eBay so they can take down the listing and others don't get ripped off since the seller is clearly lied to me about removing the listing. After all it's been three days since the sellers said that they removed the listing. It doesn't take that long to remove the sales listing with a buy it now sale.It might bother me enough that I might need to follow up one more time with eBay on this just to see if I get another representative that's more informative and has more knowledge on the counterfeiting policy?I'll keep you posted and updated,Scott

author: Johnny2Bad
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 09:44:14 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 07, 2017, 07:26:57 pmYou are barking up the wrong tree if you are looking forCriminal Offenceswith regard to copies, counterfeits, etc.These products are protected by Intellectual Property Law, not Criminal Law. It becomes criminal if you are selling counterfeits as an enterprise. When it comes to someone buying and importing a counterfeit from offshore, that is IP Law, which is Civil. In other words the owner of the IP can sue you, not have you arrested. This is exactly the same civil law that allows the RIAA, or the MPAA, to sue downloaders ... therecipients of infringing products.If any customs office is made aware of the importation of a counterfeit, they are authorized to seize and destroy it, whether it's one shipment or a container load. This means if some company that owns the IP to a product becomes aware that seller xyz is selling them to Canadians, or Americans, or pretty much anyone in any country that is a signatory to the World Trade Organization, they can make customs aware of xyz's shipments, inspect them, and destroy the counterfeits.The WTO members, as a condition of membership, agree to enforce other signatory nation's Intellectual Property.Nor does the infringing product necessarily have to have the genuine names or marks on it. There is an IP called "Industrial Design"* where you protect the appearance of an item. The counterfeit HAKKOs with or without HAKKO's name on it are in violation of HAKKO's industrial design ... the shape, the colours used, fonts, etc. *** In the United States (only) an Industrial Design is called a "Design Patent".** There are a number of protected IP's ... copyrights are one, Patents are another, Registered Trade Marks, and Industrial Designs. Teflon® is an example of a Trade Mark or Trade Name. The Patents for PTFE have long expired, and many companies, including some in Russia and China, manufacture PTFE. As long as that's what they call it, everything's kosher. But if they call it Teflon®, and it's not made by DuPont(™) it's infringing, even though it's not infringing on the patent itself.In every case, it's the responsibility of the infringed company (eg HAKKO) to enforce it's own IP. In some cases (Trade Marks) the IP owner isrequiredto enforce it's IP. That's why you see David-vs-Goliath nasty letters from lawyers, telling some mom-and-pop to stop using a certain name. It's not mean spirited, it's required by law. If you fail to enforce your Trade Marks, you can lose the right to the mark. Good example ... Aspirin. You can buy generic bottles of Aspirin in the USA, they lost the right to the mark by not enforcing it there. In Canada, you can't ... the generic are labeled ASA, because Bayer was able in Canada to lawyer up and stop infringing.With other IP ... Patents, copyrights, enforcement is optional. You can't lose the right to a Patent simply because others infringe and you do nothing.So ... the RCMP won't get involved with importing a counterfeit product by an individual, but Customs might, and in theory at least, you could get sued, especially if you resell the product from Canada (or whatever WTO country you happen to live in).China is a WTO member, and actually does respond to infringement complaints; it's just that the company (if it is a company) disbands and another takes its place. But it is not true that China will not act.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 06:52:58 pm
content: the US frequently criminally prosecutes individuals involved in selling counterfeit products.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 08:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on August 31, 2017, 06:52:58 pmSelling vs simply owning a counterfeit product is a very different thing. Especially if you can prove that you didn't know it was counterfeit and bought it in good faith. The worst thing that can happen is that customs will confiscate it from you at the border. And that is extremely rare - they are more after drugs, money, undeclared tobacco or alcohol and don't have time (nor means) to check that some gizmo or T-shirt you are importing for yourself is genuine or fake. I am not even sure they can actually confiscate items that are not intended to be sold, i.e. someone's personal property, merely because it might be counterfeit as opposed to breaking some other law (e.g. the various meat product import bans for sanitary reasons or something like a bag of pot).Trademark laws don't apply to the mere fact of owning an item, even if it could be otherwise infringing (e.g. if you have tried to sell it). If you want to own a fake, it is your problem. Trademarks are there so that people who don't want to buy fakes are not fooled into buying them (and the trademark owner's reputation damaged in the process).Someone has also mentioned MPAA/RIAA suing people. The MPAA/RIAA going after downloaders is completely irrelevant, because that concerns copyright enforcement (different law than trademarks/patents - a fake Hakko iron or Fluke meter is typically not copyright infringement!). Moreover, in most cases the suit hinged on a technicality - the P2P software used also automatically shares the files/links to others, thus you are distributing the illegal content and are therefore liable.I am not aware of MPAA/RIAA actually winning a suit against a "pure" downloader (i.e. not Torrent user) who has contested the charge - the majority of their "wins" that they loudly brag about happen simply because most people will settle after receiving the threatening letter and will rather pay the "fine" than risk a protracted (and expensive) suit with uncertain outcome.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 09:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: usagi on August 31, 2017, 06:52:58 pmRight. I don't think that is under debate.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2017, 09:59:49 pm
content: Its not under debate. Ebay upholding their policy against selling counterfeit items as mentioned in the first post and protecting the customer is what was being discussed. Just how good are you really protected with counterfeiting getting so good, will they refund you and handle it? Or what happened to me was I was told to do a refund with the seller and work it out, and that was a complete conflict in eBay's money back guarantee counterfeit statement.Not to mention a waist of my time.But as I will soon update everyone also when I called back last night I talked with a different representative that seemed to be more informed on the counterfeit policy and more helpful. So it turns out I might have just talked with someone who didn't know their job completely the first time, maybe I should have pushed her and asked to speak with the supervisor instead of taking her word for it the first time?I am working on a draft update post I hope to have done tonight.I also want to outline the steps neeeded to take if you buy a counterfeit item off of eBay so people have some instruction and knowledge of what to do and what depearttments to ask to speak with if it happens to them.Scott

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 01:38:46 am
content: Update 6, Reaching the end of my journeyCalling eBay for the second timeSince the seller didn't take down the listing as offered and agreed in his message to me this bothered me. Maybe it's a moral issue, or an honesty issue. If you agree and tell me your going to do something then I expect that to be done when they offered to do this. After all I didn't ask them to take it down, they said they were going to remove the listing as part of the case settlement.To add salt to the wound, instead of removing the listing they updated the description with the followingREDtext and raised the price, maybe to make up for having to refund me?"(Note: This one is high quality copy model make in China, but our components is the same as the original as well as the functon, please rest assured if you want to find a Soldering Iron Tip Thermometer~ this one can work well for you)"Now that the case with me was settled and closed, they sold two more units, put the price back down, removed the fake item disclaimer they had inREDand even added a few more to the available stock for sale. I'd say it's obvious they're not planning on removing this listing.So not only did I feel like I was deceived with buying a fake item, but also lied to again from the seller after trying to short me and offer with a measly $5 to go away as the first offer. Yes, I'm now taking this personally and calling BS on the sellers statement that they were "cheated by their supplier" and they didn't know it was fake to begin with. I try to give them the benefit at first, as I know buyer's sometimes don't know what they are buying for resale and can also sometimes buy fakes not knowing its counterfeit.At this point it's obvious the seller has shown their true colors and clear they were just lying to me to close the case, going back on their word, and just waisting my time playing games.I decided to call eBay once again and see if I get better service this time. Maybe I'll speak with someone who knows the counterfeit policy better. And as luck would have it, I did get someone more knowledgeable this time on the topic and policy.He was much more informative than the last person I spoke with. He stated eBay is 100% against allowing sellers to sell counterfeit items and it is against their policy for the seller. The New representative stated eBay does not tolerate counterfeiting. After reviewing my case he saw the seller admitting it was fake and transferred me to a department called the "Trust and safety department."The Trust and Safety Department CoversationAfter being on hold for a short time I spoke with a representative from the Trust and Safety Department. I had to give the case number again and the item number involved in the case. I explained that the seller admitted it was fake. And part of my case settlement was the seller offering and stating they would remove the listing and they didn't.In fact not only did they not take the item down, but they updated his description inREDtext. I explained the updated description is a completely WRONG statement and the PCB and components are completely different, no jumper to select between Fahrenheit and Celsius, no way to calibrate it.She then went on to explain to me on how I should check the item seller feedback and store feedback. I mentioned that I did and the seller has 100% with both. After being tired of the hand held scripted advice, I explained to her that I worked professionally in the cyber security space as a senior engineer and forensics investigator for 18 years so she would move on. But it's also good to know they try to help others that call by informing them on things to look out for when buying items in the future. She also said I could leave a review and feedback on the store in regards to my experience with the seller and product. The part I find suspicious is a left a review a few days ago and it still doesn't show up. I've heard of other people leaving reviews on eBay products and they also don't show up, makes me wonder if the seller gets to approve and deny certain reviews? But that may be a different topic altogether.Since I was reporting this, she also reviewed my account and purchase history and noticed I buy a lot of electronic items. She made the assumption because of my purchases I know what I'm talking about when it comes to electronics.So I urge all of you on this forum that by a lot of electronics parts from eBay to report fake items, since ourpurchase history defines our knowledgeof the topic andmakes us expertsto identify fake items.When I asked the representative from the Trust and Safety Department for a case number or reference number I was told their was none. She explained their was none since the call was transfer, and all calls on eBay are assigned a log number with a recording of the conversation that is referenced to my claim by user ID. I should also note that the seller is not told who reported the item or the user ID of the person calling. She said "The customers privacy is our highest priority".Final Thoughts, Tips and SuggestionsAs of today the sellers post is still up. They removed the fake disclaimer inRED, dropped the price back to normal again after selling two more, and increased the stock by two more available for sale. So it seems that the seller just put up the disclaimer during my case being opened, with the intention of removing it after the case was closed. The picture of the Hakko sensors still show the authentic sensors, unlike the fake ones with the obvious fake name showed in my video.The biggest tip I can give you is if a Ebay representative tells you to open a return and you have to wait three days before Ebay can get involved, disagree and ARGUE this. Ask to speak to a supervisor, read back their own policy to them as I listed in the first post. Or just call back again until you get a representative that has more knowledge on the money back guarantee counterfeiting policy.I know some of you are thinking I wasted more of my time calling eBay back, maybe I did? Maybe I didn't? Maybe something will actually be done and the seller will learn that not all customers are assumed to be ignorant and gullible.Also part of calling eBay back a second time was to get the complete experience for this post so I can describe and help others know what to do if they buy an item that ends up being counterfeit. In the end I hope my experience and time spent writing these posts and updates was able to help others.NOTICE:I have also updated my first post noting more of the Hakko FX-951 are now being sold by other sellers. And included a list on how to identify the counterfeit Hakko FX-951 units by the pictures in the sales ad besides the obvious, being sold for less then retail as a new item. You can also find direct links to each one of my update posts in this thread at the bottom of the original post and the link to the video.Thank you,Scott

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:43:31 am
content: If I didn't think it was worth my time to help others I wouldn't have wrote this all up.Maybe you can get away with wording a blackmail a specific way in your country, but as I mentioned eBay records all calls and I'm sure a judge in my country will see though any fancy wording.I got exactly what I expected to get, the experaince of someone buying a fake item and dealing with eBay to see if they would stick to the money back guarantee policy and protect the buyer. I received my refund, I think most would be happy with that and feel better about taking risks and buying certain items on eBay that are known good counterfeits when a picture is NOT more then 1K words, and you can't tell it's fake from a picture.I feel ok knowing this post will help people, I know I can still sleep tonight.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 09:13:38 am
content: Quote from: Scottjd on August 07, 2017, 12:24:10 amThe first ones?I bought an fake FX-951 for five years ago, and that from an US seller:https://goo.gl/photos/Q9fwHvQ7TAdGTvFN7I returned it, and got an new fake:https://goo.gl/photos/83DDV2vgrtWWuDaE6even worse.. doesn't work at all, the iron just get red hot, not possible to get temperatures adjusted.edit: corrected the links.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:39:08 pm
content: At the time I was shopping for one last month I only saw this one that was obvious by the pictures.Since then I have now found 4 other sellers selling the same one, that’s what I meant by a flood of them picking up again on eBay. Sorry to hear you ended up with one of these, looks the same on the outside from the ones I’ve been seeing pop up. Also I think that kit is supposed to come with a 2027, not a 2028. I think mine is a 2027 that came in the kit, maybe we can add that to the list of cautions that it might be fake if the seller states it has a 2028 with it?Scott

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:21:14 pm
content: I think my seller disapeared, this is long ago, and he had some good reflow videos on youtube.. wasted lot of money on that crap, and.. forgot to use paypal refund.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:42:48 pm
content: Looks like we have a moral knight here...But seriously, anyone who thinks$100+is a reasonable price for a thermocouple reader in a plastic case deserves to get cloned.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 05:40:30 pm
content: QuoteHow old are you? No matter, I think you will die before this happens.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 05:57:48 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on September 01, 2017, 03:42:48 pmI have to agree, the authentic thermocouple reader is over priced. I don't think how much I spent on the fake FG-100, let's just say the price should have been the first clue it wasn't real. But that's wasn't the point or question although made for an interesting twist. The question was would Ebay truly cover me if I ended up with a fake 951 when I was looking for one. And what steps should people take of it happens to them. I knew I woild need proof of it being fake, so I bought one without the Hakko name and logo for comparison. I didn't expect the seller to admit it, I don't expect most people will have that part of my experience.I wasn't willing to spend full price for the Hakko 951 either, and that's what started me on my searches. It also concerned me if I was to win an auction bid of $100-$150 and end up with a fake 951, and that's when I started searching for eBay's policy and if it would protect me. I found a lot of articals saying eBay won't stand for counterfeit sales and will refund the customer so eBay received a lot of press over this policy. Well that helped, and when I confirmed it and found that in the policy it helped a little more. But is it true, and how hard would you have to fight, how long before you were refunded?So I guess the FG-100 was a test of the policy, a way I could experience it first person and write up my findings and "What to do's" / "What not to do" while sharing it with the community.In fact when I first started building my lab like most hobbyists price is a concern. I remember finding a Agilent USB to GPIB adapter for $125 when a new one sells for $500. Exited about my auction win I posted about it and some pictures. Immediately I was told by others it was probably fake and pointed to a different thread. After opening the GPIB adapter I confirmed it was a fake and I'll never forget that feeling, then realizing I might be out of $125. I started checking some other things I bought, mostly from a GearBest order and discovered another 3 items that were copies. It explains why the one build kit never worked. It leaves a bad taste in you mouth and brings a new perspective to the way you view items being sold on eBay and some other sites.I'll admit, this is when I first started getting into a deeper level of electronic tinkering and wanting to learn more and do repairs. Still with the recent 951 some sellers use the real pictures and send you a fake, some fakes are so good you can't tell by the pictures and the risk is still a concern.And that's how the journey of the FG-100 started.I hope to write up a summary of the events and a quick note for "What to do if you receive a fake purchased item" when I have some more time. I don't know if I will include it in this thread, or make it a different thread and point to this one as the reference?Scott

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 06:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 01, 2017, 05:40:30 pmIt's already been resolved. It would been faster if it wasn't for the time difference between the seller and I. Or if I had talked with a representative that knew the policy the first time I call Ebay then I probably would have been refunded faster. The refund case was closed in 6 days, would have been 5 if didn't skip a day I replying.The refund money was in my paypal account pending that same last day the seller issued a refund, and finalized the following day.And I'm not dead