So, who's taking the windows 10 plunge - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 04:24:43 pm
content: Notification just appearedhere's what pops up when you click it...

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 04:49:52 pm
content: Not me. I'm still running Windows XP and 7 on my machines. Anything newer than that has become bloatware...

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:01:01 pm
content: I've already been testing it for a while but won't move my main Windows install over from 7 until I know everything I use and play works fine.

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:02:51 pm
content: Not me, most definately not me.As long as everything i need runs remotely well on windows 7 i will continue to run windows 7.Why? Because windows 7 still is capeable of looking somewhat like windows 98 and i still has a desktop, start menu and taskbar that works identical to windows 98 if you tweak it right.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:06:51 pm
content: I'll pass for now. At the moment I've got Windows 8.1. And until there's an SP1 or higher available with most of the glitches fixed, nope. I'm also running some pretty old software which barely runs with Windows 8 even after all of the compatibility stuff.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:19:34 pm
content: have three systems on Win7 and one on Win8.1hmm, well my Win10 icon hasn't appeared on any system yet but tbh i am inclined to keep it as it is unless i can roll back easily

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:33:02 pm
content: I'll try my laptop. If that's OK, I'll get a new drive for my desktop, install Windows 7 on that, and then upgrade. Then I'll reinstall everything. It's a good opportunity to clean out all the garbage that accumulates on a Windows system. Honestly, I think 10 is going to be quite good, other than the crappy flat look they insist on slamming us with.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 05:38:59 pm
content: Even my Microsoft Surface 3 Pro is not showing any indication of pre-scheduling Win10 installation.MS says that Win10 will be rolled out on 29-July in 190 markets.People are already asking about rollback.Most modern machines have a separate HD partition for the OS source/installation if you want to re-blast your machine.I wonder if the Win10 "upgrade" will replace the existing OS rebuild partition with a Win10 version?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 06:16:40 pm
content: I'm not sure I understand the whole idea of "reserving" the Windows 10 upgrade. What, are they going to run out of bits, or something? Honestly, it's leaving a really bad taste in my mouth already the Microsoft is playing amateur hour games like this already, and parking stuff on my taskbar that I have to remove by uninstalling updates. Really bad taste in my mouth. They'd better not botch this up, or they'll be stuck supporting Windows 7 forever.

author: kolonelkadat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:02:20 pm
content: Ive been using windows 10 for a few months off and on. Its fine. Some multi-thread programs seem to run a bit faster due to better multicore processor usage.All in all though, its not better enough to warrant the hassle of reinstalling all my software and restoring files.

author: AndreasF
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:06:22 pm
content: I'll probably give it a go.Though having clicked the "Learn more at windows.com" link in the notification and gotten a "We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found." isn't exactly confidence inspiring.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:14:44 pm
content: Is the new browser in Windows 10 (Microsoft Edge) significantly faster than the latest version of Chrome or Firefox for typical everyday usage like webmail, forums, etc?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 07:36:13 pm
content: Easy way not to have that window pop up is to be using an enterprise or corporate version, where the update does not give the advert.Wonder if there is a registry key somewhere to fool this update into turning itself off......

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:22:58 pm
content: I have the little window too.Will be the "upgrade" downgradeable if you don't like Win 10?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:36:53 pm
content: As I understood it from Microsoft, Windows 10 will be their last version of windows.... ever.So basically their whole marketing plan has changed from a one time price for a package to give away the Win10 base software for free and then they will charge you every year for a subscription to receive updates and patches.If you don't pay the subscription fee than your system will become vulnerable for security leaks etc.For now I stay with Win7.I am planning to build a brand new top of the line desktop pc this fall when the new Intel skylake processors arrive and that new pc will probably get win10 so I can experience what it will be like.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:41:28 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on June 01, 2015, 07:36:13 pmIt actually checks to see if the computer is configured to connect to a Windows domain (i.e. Windows Server, not just a Workgroup). If so it still runs, but doesn't show the popup.Quote from: SeanB on June 01, 2015, 07:36:13 pmIt's cunningly disguised as an 'Important Windows Update'.QuoteUninstall that and it'll disappear. Don't forget to go into Windows Update & hide it, otherwise it'll just reinstall & pop up again next time Window checks for updates...Just to be clear: Microsoft inserted a popup ad into Windows under the guise of an 'Important Windows Update', for the sole reason of advertising Win10.

author: iamdarkyoshi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 11:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 01, 2015, 08:36:53 pmHehe. Updates? Havent let it touch my pc since the first installation several years ago. Antivirus? After about a year I dowloaded avast and ran a boot time scan. Completely clean.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 12:07:01 am
content: Avery quicklook on the net reveals very little detail about the install process. It's a 3GB down load. Does it save as an ISO? If I want to do a re-install do I need to pre-install W7 then upgrade to W10? What happens to thisupgrade offerif I decide to re-install after it expires. What happens if I want to setup a secure non-internet connected PC?Why wouldn't a billion dollar company who no doubt hire more marketing psychologists than programmers not understand that installing a new OS is more important to some than choosing a flatmate that isn't a psychopath?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 07:37:16 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 01, 2015, 08:36:53 pmSomeone else on this forum mentioned this but I've never heard anything about it elsewhere. Any basis for it? Or it is just a MS-bashing rumour?

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 07:42:16 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 01, 2015, 06:16:40 pmIt's about managing expected customer support load, and a staged rollout to flush out any installation bugs before everyone installs at once.John

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 08:01:19 am
content: If it follows the pattern of Microsoft flops, then Windows 10 is set to be a good replacement for Windows 7 down the track (anyone remember Windows 95a, Windows Millennium Edition, Windows Vista?...)Quote from: AlfBaz on June 02, 2015, 12:07:01 amIt's been many, many years since I've used an 'update' CD to install Windows. I know previously it just asked you to insert a pre-qualifying product during the initial setup phase to check that you owned a legitimate copy that was eligible to use the upgrade disk. If it was happy, it would go ahead and install the full-blown version on a new or formatted hard disk.I guess these days OEM's aren't providing recovery discs anymore? (Or are they? I don't know.) The question remains, do you still qualify if you replace the hard disk due to failure or upgrade? I would suggest yes, you would. But how you would go about it is anyone's guess at this stage. Perhaps asking the user to input the original OEM licence key of the Windows 8 product still stuck to the machine would be a sensible way to handle that issue, since OEM keys are different to Enterprise or Retail keys and are distinguishable between hardware manufacturers.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 08:25:07 am
content: It sounds promising without a horrible start screen

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 08:27:21 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on June 02, 2015, 08:13:51 amSo does the upgrade process give you a windows 10 license key? I have a legit windows 8 license key, which is useless because windows 8 is a fail, and it doesn't work for 8.1. I wonder if I can go through customer service and trade it for a W10 key. The 8 to 8.1 upgrade was also free so I don't see why this wouldn't be possible.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 08:30:45 am
content: I don't know about you guys but I did reserve my free upgrade for when it's available, and I don't have to do it on the day that it's released.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 08:33:51 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 02, 2015, 07:37:16 amNo it came from a prominent MS developer on the ignite 2015 keynote and the company backed it up.It was on a lot of computer sites and magazines. Just a quick google because i am at workhttp://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/08/microsoft-windows-10-last-windows/

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 10:35:20 am
content: I might try W10 on the desktop but it is unlikely that I will try it on my laptop which is a Panasonic CF19 toughbook, it took 2 days to install all the drivers on that after I replaced the HDD earlier this year and installed W7 it had been Vista it was trial and error as to which drivers worked on the machine some are MK2 some MK3 and 4 drivers.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 09:48:42 pm
content: that sounds like what I'd expect...Microsoft and others are not in business foryou.They exist for their shareholders.. it's what keeps businesses rolling along, collapsing and being reborn with new ideals.The days are gone when you buy something with you own hard-earned -- and actually own it!

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 10:05:23 pm
content: I have freebsd on one laptop, windows 7 on this one and windows xp on the main pc. I will not be moving up to 10, tired of all the upgrades and everything Gates does to make money from us all.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 10:10:54 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 02, 2015, 08:33:51 amThe thing is Windows adoption rate is fairly slow, because only about 20%-30% (maybe even less) of people upgrade to the latest version within a year of the release, whereas on the Mac most people are running the latest unless they are stuck due to old hardware. This means Microsoft has to dedicate time and effort updating the old Windows versions which they would like to stop having to support. So it makes sense that they would just want one actual version, with continuous upgrades.Apple just stops supporting old versions period, you're either running latest or you aren't getting updates, helps though that OS X updates have been pretty smooth for the most part, both in terms of usability and UI changes ever since they did the architecture switch to x86. Nothing like the horrors of Vista and Windows 8.As far as yearly sub is concerned Adobe is doing it with some of their software like Lightroom (although you can still outright buy it as well).

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 02:06:48 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on June 02, 2015, 12:07:01 amHas it occurred to you that your having a secure non-internet connected PC is something TPTB (and their useful tool Microsoft) strongly wish was impossible. So rather than waste time coming round to your place with a SWAT team, they just make it ever harder to do.QuoteWhy do obviously very intelligent people such as yourself seem to have steep psychological barriers to recognizing the clearly hostile motives of a company pushing an Operating System that with each version becomes a closer equivalent to sharing a flat with a psychopath? Normalcy bias, much?The buildings full of marketting psychologists are only there to model exactly how far and fast MS can push their bullshit without causing any effective customer backlash. (Where 'effective' would involve razing MS offices to the ground and salting the earth they stood on.)Someone earlier pointed out that MS just auto-installed an advertisement for Win 10 on everyone's PCs, disguised as an important security update. (On the PCs of those who have auto-update enabled, anyway.)And you think you can trust this company with the digital shade of your life?"Oh, but they are giving it away for free!"No they are not. Microsoft is a predatory corporation, with only two interests:1. Profit. Maximizing of it, without any moral considerations whatsoever.2. Long term Elite-driven socio-political goals, which are quite complex but definitely not for your benefit.I've read that MS has decided to switch to a 'rental model', in which they have sufficient control over the PC platform to be able to enforce perpetual and inescapable pay-for-use. The idea is that you won't buy the OS or utilities like Office, but rather pay a subscription for use of cloud-based software and storage. The 'thin terminal' model, in which your PC doesn't have much grunt, and is more under Microsoft's control than yours. Also all your data files will be 'safe and secure in the Cloud.'And if you believe that is a good thing, well... you're going to have an interesting learning experience over the next few years. Also, anyone who thinks storing personal data on corporate cloud servers is in any way private, deserves an education via two by four.Hence the 'Free upgrade to Win 10' hype. You know those cage traps used to catch animals? Like that. The cheese is free.As a general prediction, I'd bet once MS feels they have an acceptable portion of the PC userbase shifted to Win10 (and the UEFI 'secure boot' scheme continues morphing into a fully OS-locked closed hardware platform) it's going to become virtually impossible for anyone but an extreme expert to revert back to independent, stand-alone operating systems. (He says, while having some typical difficulties just installing XP on a nice HP-Compaq 6910p laptop, from not too many years ago.)Incidentally, somewhat relevant - a few days ago I discovered a forum for those seeking an escape path from the Microsoft Trail of Tears. Seems very active, with lots of interesting stuff. I'm hoping to finally try setting up nLite.Microsoft Software Forum Network (It's _about_ MS software, not by MS. Especially optimizing non-current MS OSs like XP. And use of nLite.)http://www.msfn.org/board/Oh, and while creating an account I found that somewhere between their server and optusnet, there's an email block. Multiple signup verification mails from them to me just vanished. But when I had the mails routed via my own US webserver, they got through immediately.In my opinion, having their name on a blacklist somewhere is a very positive sign. They must be doing something right, enough to annoy our masters.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:11:46 pm
content: The concept of a 'rental model' leads me to an important question...Say I have XP, W2K, or W7/W8 installed today.Those drop off the support tree, but do what I need for compatibility.I have purchased Disks, licences, keys whatever, have holograms...--- then want to do a clean install in three years time.In many cases the new OScan'tbe installed on that older 386, 486, Pentium box...The older OS are ok, as they untangle the licence key internally, but the 'call home' model...?Will my Windows 7 ultimate still activate, or am I forced to pay again for something I already own and paid for - that provides access to my work, family archives and daily banking?I realise there's no guarantee of forward/backward compatibility.... so I want to run the old environment on at least one legacy system, in order to migrate old data forward.If indeed, I can't re activate... Who carries the can for this denial of access or opportunity?"You can still eat three meals a day, but it has to be at my restaurant, at my prices!".-- interestingHINT: Keep an already activated 'image' ASAP, and keep it up to date!You could say motor vehicles are heading the same way, but as mechanical devices, if I lose the key, I can replace the lock, or hot-wire it to get out of trouble... Maybe we need legally enforced 'official back doors' implemented when software goes out of support?Personally, I don't care, as I've covered my bases in other ways, but as the devil's advocate - these are questions that should be asked.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:19:12 pm
content: Looks OK, however I'm not impressed with the lack of any mention of Thunderbolt support. Thunderbolt is available on several high-end motherboards now.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:20:40 pm
content: If it's reasonably priced, a subscription model is actually not that bad. I have subscriptions for some things, like Adobe Creative Cloud. I'm always up to date, and the upfront cost is lower. People upgrade computers so frequently nowadays, it could actually be considerably CHEAPER for many. You pay for a Windows license anytime you buy a computer with Windows on it. If you upgrade every few years, it could well be cheaper to pay a subscription for Windows than to buy it once, and then essentially throw it out.I'm in wait and see mode. They may not do anything at all and just keep selling as they currently do.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:41:59 pm
content: Who says that Windows 10 is subscription based? as far as I can tell I can upgrade my Windows 7 64bits Professional to Windows 10 Professional for free and I have a full year to actually install it or request it.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:52:11 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 03, 2015, 02:06:48 pmAre you able to cite sources please?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 03, 2015, 10:20:40 pmThe subscription model Adobe and MS are using puts the annual subscription pricing at about half the one-time purchase. So you can buy it once for $200 and use it for the next 5+ years, or pay $100 a year. I don't know anybody that goes through computers every 2 years or less, so the subscription model will cost more for nearly everybody.You don't pay separately for a Windows license when you buy a computer either. Go check the prices of computers that offer Linux as an option - they're the same. Dell XPS 13 is the exact same price whether you get Windows 8.1 or Ubuntu.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 10:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 03, 2015, 10:41:59 pmGet back to us in a year when you get your subscription invoice.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 11:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on June 03, 2015, 10:54:18 pmNot true for all models. I bought a high end Dell workstation and Windows 8.1 Pro came as a seperate option which adds to the price of the PC. I did buy that to have a Windows license to run Windows in a VM under Linux.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 11:17:00 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 03, 2015, 10:57:20 pmNah, the subscription model for Windows 10 applies only for computers with Intel processors, AMD based systems get the upgrade for free for life.See I can make things up too.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 11:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 03, 2015, 11:17:00 pmNeither of us can guess what they will decide to do a year from now.But I'll bet they aren't going to become a benevolent non-profit company giving away operating system licenses.Quote from: suicidaleggroll on June 03, 2015, 10:54:18 pmThat is because MS plays sleazy tricks with selling licenses. If you are a big customer like Dell, you get a steep discount if you buy as many licenses as machines that you ship. So the cost is essentially built into the cost of the machine whether you actually install the OS or not.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:04:31 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 03, 2015, 11:54:07 pmThere is nothing to guess.http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq?ocid=Reserve_r_Confirmation_mod2_faqThe having a full year to actually do the free upgrade doesn't mean that the OS will stop after one year.Unless someone can link evidence to the contrary they only thing they are doing is spreading unsubstantiated rumors.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:10:26 am
content: There wasn't any mention of a subscription licensing system at the presentation in Feb from MS. Operating in the cloud would be a disaster in Aus due to the crippled upload speeds and poor network connectivity in general. Also means you are buggerred if there's an outage or no coverage in a remote location.Win10 was to be offered as a free upgrade for 12 months. New installations and post 12-month upgrades are charged for. I think the idea was to try and get as many people off the legacy systems as possible and ontpo Win10 rather than have Apple poach users after the Win8 debacle. It sounds like a move to push towards the one OS on tablet, laptop, desktop and phone.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:42:45 am
content: The offer expires after a year, not the upgrade.http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/Quote

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:58:19 am
content: The subscription rumour is just fear-mongering bullshit from the anti-Microsoft crowd. Licensing for Windows 10 is just like previous versions. Microsoft announced the prices, they're the same as Windows 8.1 except the upgrade price is $0 this year. Microsoft has made this perfectly clear, anyone who thinks otherwise is wearing their tinfoil hat too tight.Quotehttp://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/ Miguel beat me to that quote.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:10:36 am
content: Some higher ups, I forget who, have alluded to the idea that they have no intention of simply giving away Windows forever to whoever gets a license, and that their pricing schemes will be revisited in the future. The typical model is you buy a license, and then pay a maintenance fee to keep it up to date. But nothing is known yet...at least not publicly, and I doubt they've actually made any decisions at this point beyond "KILL WINDOWS 8 AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE"...because then they'll be stuck maintaining 7, 8 and 10, just like the Vista debacle.re: adobe pricingAdobe Create Suite 6 Master Collection was something like $2500 if I remember right. I pay $600 a year for everything. Furthermore, I can switch to a monthly plan, for $74 a month. I may end up doing this because I mainly use it to get stuff ready for my website when I do product launches and announcements. I may only need it 2 or 3 times a year, so I have the option of just using it when I absolutely need it, and getting by with freeware when I don't. I'm trying it like this for a year to learn it and understand what I use it for, and then I'll probably switch to a monthly subscription and activate it when necessary. And I STILL get the latest and greatest each and every time I use it, plus synchronized settings between computers and other cloud features if I choose to use them. And the best part is, I don't have to lay out a lot of capital now, plus I can decide to dump it tomorrow if I want to and go with something else. You have to look at it from a business perspective, and it works out OK.re: lifetime of the deviceWhat's the lifetime of the device? Microsoft has refused to comment on that. Don't be naive...they won't keep giving upgrades for free forever, unless they're forced to by public outcry. And why should they? All those employees and stock holders have bills to pay too. Apple can keep giving it away because they're not a software company. They're a hardware company. Microsoft is a software company, so you have to pay for the software.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:15:33 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on June 04, 2015, 01:10:36 amSpeculation, Adobe != MicrosoftThey are not giving it away for free, the offer is only good if:Quote

author: nickn4
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:33:03 am
content: Without reading everything that's been already said in this thread, i risk saying something that is already been said but anywhere here is my opinion;In first place i wont move to W10. at the moment i use W7, mainly because i can control almost every part of the OS. in windows 10 however, there is speculation that allot of shady stuff is being implemented so i wont even try it. HOWEVER..if the drivers/low-end-software for the new ssd-pci controller wont really make it to past OS's i mightreconsidermy decision.also i will see what will happen with all the lunix distro's, the market might go on rampage, although i seriously doubt it will make any difference

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 04:49:42 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on June 03, 2015, 10:52:11 pmgoogle 'microsoft windows 10 subscription model'I haven't been keeping notes on this, but there's a lot about it online. Many different opinions, as usual.Here's one:http://www.windows10update.com/windows-10-will-be-run-and-supported-as-a-service/There's also plenty of voices saying 'no no MS won't be charging you anything.' So you have to decide based on observed actions.As I see it, the financial model for Windows OS isn't the core point. It's getting people to accept an OS that allows MS to enforce a rental model for application software. *Their* application software, and little else. This is what all the 'trusted software' and 'trusted platform' stuff is about. MS is building a capability into their OS to be able to literally control what software people are able to run. Doing it in little nibbles, but always in the direction of tighter control. Same thing with 'secure boot' - small steps, always towards ending up with hardware platforms on which you can't install anything but MS Windows. And hence, can't run anything but MS-approved software.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 05:01:41 am
content: @TerraHertzThank you.I will do some more searching, reading and digesting.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 05:20:01 am
content: Or one could read "Service" as in "Service Packs", some people make mountains out of nothing.On Windows 8, they did try to promote their Windows Shop (as in Google Play, Apple Store or the like) the users spoke up and there is no way that is going to fly as the only way to get software running on Windows unless is Windows Shop approved.I'm not saying that is not what Microsoft wants, but that is not going to be what Microsoft gets, since then I've seen no indication of that being pursued any further.This is like saying that Intel is going to charge per CPU cycle, sure it might happen in the future but why should I worry about it now?Pay per Internet packet? that has been brought up many times as well.So yeah, let's all panic because it's all doomed!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 05:43:36 am
content: I will wait until the end of the free upgrade period. No doubt, Microsoft will be shipping bugs and vulnerabilities with its early release, waiting for the field to find them.You might find everything works OK except that one electronics application or compiler you really need and you have to wait until the vendor releases updated software.Also, drivers. If you have an expensive Canon printer, watch out! Their drivers may not work for O/S upgrades (eg: XP to Win 7) and Canon's attitude is if it does not work, buy a new Canon printer. Yes, I had to buy a new printer but I did not even consider a Canon. I bought a Brother and have never looked back.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 05:58:48 am
content: I did reserve mine, that said, I'm going to wait at least 3 or 4 months to actually install it (longer if there are problems after that period).The Windows 10 check only shows a minor issue with my system but I'm not willing to risk it and be an early adopter.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 08:40:19 am
content: Apparently Norton antivirus wont work after I install windows 7, does that mean I have to use windows own anti virus. One thing is certain Microsoft will continue to make money so they either have to charge for the OS or the other software required on a computer after all the OS on its own is as useless as the hardware on its own, so the revenue stream can be from anything from charging for upgrades to enforcing the use of Microsoft's cloud and charging for it.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 09:12:54 am
content: MSDN Premium and MS Gold Partner member here...On consumer devices it's going to free with rolling upgrades. That is ALL devices from desktops to phones. There is no windows 11.As a consumer, what you'll be paying for is online services like Office 365 and paying for 3rd party and premium apps. That is all. That's really trivial cash if you need it. You don't have to buy these either as the online office apps that ship with outlook.com etc are pretty good as are all the free apps that come with it. So students, home users etc need nothing. Small businesses can run off cheap Office 365 subs and large businesses can ramp up to whatever they need.As a business, you'll be paying volume licensing, Office 365 and Azure subscription costs. Plus licensing is effing expensive suddenly so we're getting shafted for your free rideI've been using it on a VM for a month now and most of the rough edges that scared the poo out of me are gone now. It's pretty good. I've run stuff I wrote in 1996 for NT on it and it all works fine as does all of our software. Can't see any major incompatibility problems either.Also there will be no premium ramp up. Microsoft are moving to a service model so it's in their interest to get their devices and software into your hands as cheap as possible. Ubiquity is the new strategy.Edit: I'm not a fan of the whole "ecosystem" idea but Microsoft are operating the "least shit" one as of the Windows 10 rollout.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 11:10:51 am
content: Why let the facts get in the way of Microsoft haters guessing what they might be going to do and hating them for it in advance?The irony is that Apple are really now the "we own you, pay up" corporate. Microsoft are more open source friendly (on the development side at least) than they used to be.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 11:19:55 am
content: I got the notification at home but not at the lab.Will upgrade at home from Win7 to see what the fuss is, but not at the lab until I know the benefits.Never touched Windows 8.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:11:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on June 04, 2015, 11:10:51 amBecause Microsoft execs have said they're considering it for the future?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:30:54 pm
content: From what I see so far, I'll be running Windows 7 on my main machine for years to come. I still run both a VM and a physical machine with Windows XP for legacy software (and hardware). I'm personally not a fan of anything that requires an internet connection to run or "cloud" based services.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:38:26 pm
content: They haven't though. They said 10 is the last number they'll use, but whether the next update is called 11 or 10.0.1 makes very little difference. *If* you have to pay to keep up to date with 10.0.1 that's no different to paying for 11.The "subscription model" thing is complete conjecture. All that's fact is that you'll get 10 for free. Some people just want to predict that Microsoft are planning to rip people off in the future.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 12:45:54 pm
content: If you're interested, do your own research and look up all of the interviews yourself. At least one exec has said that moving forward, it's definitely something they're considering, in addition to other pricing schemes. I believe one of them was embedded advertising in some low cost additions.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:16:39 pm
content: I use Windows 7 on my desktop, and my laptop came with Windows 8.1. I tried my best to put up with 8.1, but ended up tearing my hair out. What a hateful utterly unproductive POS it is. I only made it usable by installing "Classic Shell".So I am sure to give Windows 10 a go on the laptop, but I will cling on to my desktop Windows 7 like grim death.

author: WBB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:25:37 pm
content: I think considering their options should be considered part of doing their jobs.

author: klr5205
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 01:41:41 pm
content: I built my current machine in 2010 and the RAM is starting to act up so rather than fix this one I may just build a new rig. I made the mistake of building an upper midrange AMD pc less than a month before the i5/i7 processors first appeared and blew it out of the water, so now that this one is showing its age I have an excuse to jump ship and make something that will be a solid performer with a decent upgrade path for the next 5-7 years.All that being said, Windows has established a pattern over the last few years that every-other version is good. I currently have an unused windows 7 professional license, so I'll probably use that at some point over the next year and update to Windows 10.Does anyone know if you can type in a valid license key and download a windows 10 disc image? Or does it have to be an upgrade from within an existing install?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2015, 02:05:15 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on June 04, 2015, 01:20:23 pmThey make most of their Windows money with corporate licenses. My prediction is in the future, Windows licensing will go as follows:1) free, or very low cost, "Home" version, integrated with advertising of some kind.2) Higher cost "pro" version, locked to specific hardware, much like OEM versions work now3) Per USER subscription, allowing a particular user (or group of users) to install Windows on how many devices they have. Obviously, this would also be the Corporate pricing plan.That would be my guess, and frankly I think it makes perfect sense.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2015, 03:16:13 am
content: Well I am no fan boy of Microsoft, more of a hater. But I hate them less than Apple and the incoherent mess of Linux distros. So it is always the choice of whether to follow MS again or try and resolve my problems with Linux. I avoided XP for a long time because it was worse than W2K for stability. But when MS forced the change by not adding support for modern devices it was a no choice situation.I tried to use Linus for a year but it was impossible to use it for everything I did and had to use Windows for many important things. So why use both when one did it all?The big danger I see is what MS will probably do with Win10. I believe, based on some things said by them over the past decade, that they will play some kind of lock in game with software and "cloud" subscriptions. I don't want any part of that. Maybe because I am an old fart who likes the way things work(ed) and can't adjust, or maybe I am right to fear big brother and lack of choice.So I will stick with Win7 until I see the fallout from Win10 and maybe will decide to change everything to Linux, stay with Win7 if possible, or move to Win10 if it appears OK and there seem to be no gotchas.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2015, 07:59:31 am
content: Quote from: smjcuk on June 04, 2015, 09:12:54 amIf that is true, why didn't they allow the suckers who purchased laptops with crap infested Vista a free upgrade as well? Maybe Vista victims could get a pirated version of Windows 7 and then do the upgrade.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2015, 10:07:28 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 05, 2015, 07:59:31 amSimply because most of the Vista machines that were released early didn't support the CMPXCHG16B instruction and had buggy x86-64 implementations. These are required to support Windows 8+ due to masses of security and compiler changes.If you roll out a free upgrade across the board to those users, you're going to shaft a huge number of people which isn't a great plan.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2015, 11:14:08 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on June 05, 2015, 10:28:33 amSame here. Couldn't agree more. I have a couple of programmable calculators; it's the nearest you can get to something that "just works" these days.It's great when someone looks at you like crazy whilst you yank out an 18 year old calculator, tap in some stats, do a lin reg on it and come up with an answer before they've even managed to google what function to call in excel

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 10:32:54 am
content: I might be in the minority, but I really like win8. The desktop version is, by far, the fastest, leanest and most stable Windows ever. It runs just fine on old hardware, and made my 15 year old(!) Sony laptop behave better than new.Win10 is said to be even better. I take that with a grain of salt and I will wait for the reports from the early adopters. Unless something serious comes up and specially, if the promises of even faster and leaner OS are even remotely true, I'll take it. MS says that this is the last version (meaning piecewise upgrades from now on), and if so, I will end up doing that anyway at some point, so why not do it when it is free?

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 10:38:41 am
content: I'm surprised that someone called win 7 "bloatware". It does like to hide things from you (like network settings) if you want to tweak things - but it's all there.If I do try win 10 - I want a ISO image/CD/DVD/USB or something - totally fresh install. Upgrading in place has never worked for me. Even if I'm wrong and they fix it so that you can just up grade in place - every time there is an issue I'll say "I bet it cause it's an overwrite - and not a fresh install!"

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 11:12:06 am
content: Quote from: JuKu on June 09, 2015, 10:32:54 amThe only thing wrong with Windows 8 is the ridiculous interface. Technically, it's superior to Windows 7, and Windows 7 is pretty good. Windows 7 may even be my favorite release, in a close tie with Windows 2000. Stable as hell. I never reboot my machines other than to install occasional updates.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 12:01:46 pm
content: Installed win 10 insider build on spare SSD to try it out. Seem to lack all of those things in win 8 that drives me nuts. Used a few hours in total, looks like nothing wrong in it to not upgrade from win 7, unless there are showstopper incompatibilities with software you use. And definitely must to upgrade from win 8.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 12:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: smjcuk on June 05, 2015, 11:14:08 amGood point. But you are using your computer to send a text message. Try doing that on a calculator. The only text message I knew how to show on my trusty SR-56 programmable calculator was the rude message (read upside down):580086185315538I have several calculators, but I still find the Android telephone's Real Calc to be the most used. Real Calc is designed by a UK electronic engineer who came up with what I reckon is the best non-programmable calculator ever for engineers. I was so impressed I bought the app which has a few more features than the free one. More importantly, paying a couple of $ to the developer is worth it.The worst is using Windows Calc... a last resort calculator, where boredom sets in after a few mouse clicks.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 12:49:08 pm
content: Please review the experience for us.Quote from: wilfred on June 09, 2015, 12:14:45 pm

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 01:34:50 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on June 09, 2015, 11:59:35 pmBecause others (like me) are going to wait to see what the first adopters experience is first, I did reserve mine but won't install for at least a couple of months or more depending what the user experience isMeaning going to wait to see if the bungee is the right length/tension/construction and I don't end up splattered on the ground.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 09:15:04 am
content: Been using it for a few days in a VM now. It's really quite nice. Can't say I've had any problems with it. The "modern apps" are a bit flakey but they're being fixed very quickly.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 11:35:56 pm
content: This is a genuine question - and admittedly I run older computers with Ubuntu and XP - but what can Windows 10 do that older versions cannot?

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 11:51:51 pm
content: Here is the ISO for those that have not found it yet.http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 07:09:39 am
content: I just hope that they introduce some form of "fuck off, I know what I'm doing" mode. In Win7 most security/ "are you REALLY sure" / "warning Will Robinson, danger!" dialog boxes can be disabled, and even if they can't there is usually an 'I know what I'm doing" option. Not try to install an unsigned driver in Win 8.1.......... I strongly suspect that it is worse in Win10.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 09:00:48 am
content: Quote from: Delta on June 10, 2015, 11:35:56 pmI was in your camp fro a long time. A key piece of editing software I was using was XP pro *only* for the longest time. It's not a life changer, after all once you're in an app, that where you do your work - but I now prefer the win 7 explorer - and stuff. It just makes more sense. What ever OS you run, add an SSD - the prices are so low now it makes no sense not to.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 03:02:38 pm
content: Stability is better with Windows 7 also, and I'm assuming that 10 will be at least as good. I could still get Windows XP honked up enough that I had to reboot. I can't recall ever having to reboot my 7 machine except to install software or updates.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 05:30:20 pm
content: I'll be waiting to see how the subscription thing is implemented. I really don't want to have to deal with Microsoft on a continuing basis just to have a functional OS. Windows 7 can be run, with full Windows Update capability, without ever having to register or "activate" it. I definitely don't want to be required to have some kind of Microsoft account and be required to log in just to run Windows 10. That would be a deal killer. I only use Windows 7 as an operating system, it's the only software from Microsoft I use, everything else is from somewhere else. I haven't started Internet Explorer or Windows Media player voluntarily in well over a decade.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 09:14:29 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on June 11, 2015, 05:30:20 pmIt's no different to windows 7 regarding registration and activation and you don't have to use a microsoft account if you don't want to. There's a skip link at the bottom on the OOB screens. For the majority of the non-tech-savvy population, the microsoft account is the right way to go.They've worked out it's worth sod all to them so they're basically giving it away and hoping you'll pay for the subscription services. Like XBox 360, they can afford to sell at a loss for a long time just to gain market share.This is how to look at windows...I just bought a Lumia 640 and I got free Office 365 for a year (full MS office) with it. Paid £119 for the phone, that's £59 of office for free which I was going to buy anyway and a free £20 accessory voucher so I got a 32Gb samsung microSD for that. Add free windows 10 for both the phone and the laptop. All on a £250 laptop including nice monitor (Lenovo X201, docking station, genuine 9 cell battery, 19" Lenovo high end TFT) and an win8 license I got for free from them.So that works out about £15 a month on IT expenditure over 24 months lifespan of this stuff. I claim £200 a month on equipment expenses and pocket the £185. So that's a nice Rigol scope in 2 months...

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 01:16:43 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on June 11, 2015, 08:44:35 amDPI scaling done properly is a huge win for me. Enough to make me want to upgrade.I have one desktop dual boot and one laptop with win 7. Microsoft claims to require secure UEFI, however I read that only applies to new OEM machines and you can still boot with unsigned UEFI on systems you have cobbled together yourself (as I have). That confusion doesn't inspire confidence, I am going to delay adoption until I am certain I can do it without screwing up my linux install.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 02:12:48 am
content: Agreed with DPI scaling. I always have two monitors, and they're always different, simply because I don't have/want room for 2 large monitors.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 04:25:57 am
content: I've been using the preview builds for awhile now on a new laptop after having used 7 on the previous laptop.The fast boot time is impressive, though it sometimes takes it awhile to actually be responsive to a login. I really enjoyed the dynamic lock screen content, I hope that comes back.There's a lot of improvements to the console subsystem (what you run command-line programs in)... they finally officially added the normal text selection mode (instead of just box select) and console windows can be freely resized. You have to opt in to these features, presumably for compatibility reasons. This is what I miss most when I go back to my Win7 machines.The start menu's pretty good. I think it's a nice compromise of using live tiles and having a start menu. You can remove all the tiles and shrink the menu down if you like, and then it's even more streamlined than 7. As in 8, the start menu icon has a very useful right click menu for power users and I really like it.The desktop calculator is gone right now (or at least I haven't found it), and the "modern" calculator is a very poor replacement IMO. I'll be bringing the desktop calculator with me from prior OSes, it runs just fine in 10 if you have it. This is the only thing I have missed moving to 10, and I was able to correct it.The hot corners and charms stuff from 8 are gone, much to my relief. I think a laptop touchpad can still be configured to trigger it, but I disabled that in an earlier build and haven't seen it since.I haven't used Spartan or Cortana at all.Happy to answer questions for folks if I can

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 06:34:55 am
content: Moving to subscription based model is entirely believable and not unexpected. It was in every business and tech magazines then about how they would refresh their revenue stream.Back in late 1990's, I was responsible for 300+ developer's HW/SW needs at a financial related firm. Microsoft product was of course a good part of the software environment I supported. They were discussing subscription models with me then perhaps probing customer reaction I suppose.In early 2000 (by then, I moved to a manufacturing firm), they were actively selling subscription based models. They pushed it as "upgrade-included support". It was calledMicrosoft Select(with "Software Assurance") then. I can put any version of MS office on the PC (as the tasks called for), since that $ is for the "top of the line" Office Pro with Publisher. About the same for OS (XP Pro) and I can down grade as needed, and more for the server line of OS'es. I opted for "open license" which was more or less "clean purchase" instead of subscriptions for the PC's in my shop.If you think that is but a conjecture, web-search Microsoft Select and Software Assurance. They may not call it as such, but in practice, it is a subscription based model.And how sweet (for them), if I got an HP (or DELL, or IBM, or SONY, or whatever), it already came with Windows license from HP, now they got the end user to pay for it over again. Of course, they say their pricing already put that into consideration...Their ERP contract was a bit unclear. It was "support with upgrade". What bugged me then was, they acquired Navision and Great Plains and they were clearly repositioning the products. So, as long as they are releasing Navision version X+1, I can upgrade from Version X to version X+1 as upgrade; but if they call it something else say "Vision Great Pain" (I made the name up), I am pretty much left at a dead end with my now-dead ERP. I can of course purchase new licenses for "Vision Great Pain" and pay for a "new" ERP again - even if every screen was exactly the same except the name, it would be a new product and not an upgrade. So, the danger was clear: I would be at their mercy.Now what can be considered a rant:Something companies like MS doesn't truly understand is: end user doesn't always want the latest and greatest. If I opted for say OSes moving with their releases, my ERP also have to move with their release, my Office Suite also have to move their release... So, if I am caught in one, I am caught by all.It was not even the cost of the software that concerned me; it was the disruption to operation that is many times the costof even the rather expensive ERP license.For example, "single purpose machines" like the ones controlling a weight-scale at every production line. These PCs merely take the production line info (think of it as serial/lot number), the actual weight, and log the info into the database. A day's interruption on just a single production line will cost thousands of dollars of lost production time. Any upgrade there would mean I open up the can of worm there - the Scale manufacturer may need to come, the interfacing software developer (written for us on contract) may need to come, but he is divorced and his wife now owns the company (and my predecessor did not have the source code escrowed…)Looking elsewhere, right at the door, the employee clock-in single-purpose PC(s) are the same thing. Each served no other purpose. They just scan the palm, accept the password, and "clock-in" the employee. Examples like that are all over the shop each doing its own single job. That damn database link is the Achilles Heel. It saved a clerk may be 8 hours a month, and cost IT may be 4 hours a week (annualized) to do the damn upgrades and testing. Each upgrade is huge $$$$ even if the upgrade software is included for "free"."Once when you have the customer by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."(Suppose to have been said by Stern - The Stern that NYU Stern School of Business is named after. Doesn't matter if he said it, some present day CEO's sure acts like they would say that.)

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 10:24:12 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on June 11, 2015, 02:52:30 pmIn my previous workplace we ran SSDs on XP no problems. They we're in a RAID array, so maybe that helped...

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 02:09:19 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on June 12, 2015, 10:24:12 amhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_(computing) I presume.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 04:48:33 pm
content: Nah, never heard of Trim in fact! Although we did have to update the firmware in the RAID controller card, I'm thinking that the controller abstracted the SSDs from XP.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 05:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: Delta on June 12, 2015, 04:48:33 pmI was explaining why Win 7 is preferable to Win XP for SSDs. Win 7 supports TRIM and Win XP does not. I think there's something about defragmentation, too, where Win 7 recognizes that SSDs don't really benefit.Since TRIM is a filesystem level operation, it is likely that your RAID controller didn't implement it either. But as you saw, an SSD will work without TRIM support (just not as well.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 09:24:49 pm
content: Windows 7 just tests the speed of a drive. If it's faster than some predetermined limit then it turns off automatic defragmenting for that drive. This is mainly to avoid excessive writing to the drive.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 12:13:28 pm
content: Windows 7 actually does it both ways. I thought it was by speed test only because I've never seen a drive specifically identified as an SSD in Win 7. My experience is limited though. I guess SSD drives have gotten better at identifying themselves since Windows 7 was first released.QuoteSource:http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx

author: videobruce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 12:44:06 pm
content: QuoteLast time I looked, there are all kinds of devices that have the "Microsoft" name on it.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 08:59:53 pm
content: Yep.Staring at an xbox 360 and a Lumia at the moment...

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 09:06:04 pm
content: Quote from: videobruce on June 13, 2015, 12:44:06 pmQuote from: smjcuk on June 13, 2015, 08:59:53 pmAnd I am responding to this on my Surface Pro 3. (Which is great! And proof that 3rd time's the charm.)

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 12:17:08 pm
content: Thanks to post focusing to 10's improved performance rather than its UI, its something I'd look forward too in my next hardware purchase, as I had with previous Windows iterations. From here and elsewhere I see an executive summary as:Performance no less than 7 in terms of execution speed across all apps, and better in others. Many websites with benchmark reports.Faster boot times from OFF.Much improved security: sandboxing, authentication etc.,Requires same hardware footprint as 7Can run Truecrypt only with MBR not GPT on drives and BIOS not UEFI, which increases cold boot timeWith many legacy applications on my 7 box, many from defunct or custom vendors, should I fix what isn't broken? A compelling answer would be if periodic security upgrades finally ended for 7. In some of our old XP boxes, we disconnect it from the Internet and continue to use them for data acquisition.Since my first post, I've opted to remove the upgrade icon on my 7 box as per Microsoft's instructions. When I logged on again, it reappeared; I've repeated this cycle 2x, and now the icon stays on permanently. I know I can delve into the system and finally remove it, but I followed the exact instructions posted by Microsoft so why is the icon still there ?We have boxes using Vista,7, XP, both 32 and 64 bit, with ne'er issues as we remove as much of its unnecessary functionality [ e.g. Aero] so they all look and function as close to XP as we can.In December 2014, I returned from a trip to the Pacific onboard a plane with wifi. For 15 minutes, the wifi was opened free as a trial, then it was pay. I used my Nexus 7 and Droid phone to log on and check it out, booted, recognized, and surfed in less than 1 minute, albeit it was jerky and slow, not worth $35 for the entire trip.Beside me was a passenger using a Surface; it was beautifully designed, and had those multiwindow icons that popped up everywhere. As the wifi appeared she pressed buttons here and there, it interacted with her, it showed her some pretty waiting icons, some app notifications awaiting wifi to update itself but 15 minutes later, she still was not connected and the trial was over.https://tomssl.com/2015/01/15/fix-the-wifi-on-your-surface-pro-3/After watching her, I took out my old Netbook Win7 Starter edition, cold booted and logged on, and while the trial was over I reached the page for paying in 5 minutes.

author: smjcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 07:12:46 am
content: Don't like the Surface myself. The battery cannot be easily replaced. After every laptop we've had needing a new battery after 1.5-2 years, this represents a purchase risk. We're sticking to Lenovo T-series and HP EliteBooks company-wide and I'm hanging onto my personal X-series ThinkPad.