Anyone up for tearing down and investigating a fully digital auto everything MM? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 04:19:40 am
content: I've been contemplating requesting this from Vine Amazon, and I did today:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CXKSXQF/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 06:32:13 am
content: I've got an Aneng-branded one:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001448855395.htmlPlus: It packs alotof functionality, it comes in a pretty good case, good LED test voltage.Minus: The LCD display is a bit "meh", the continuity speed isn't the best (it's on the "auto" mode).Weird: It has a relay in it and makes 'click' noises when you connect the probes to stuff.This guy has a video:

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 03:09:59 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 24, 2020, 06:32:13 amMakes me wonder where the main line manufactures, Fluke, Keysight & etc are with their feature filled and meters with modern displays are! The first thing that comes to mind is how long has the iPhone been around and these manufactures can't even go half way with a graphical display. Now a start up has a very interesting meter instead of a traditional builder.QuoteWhat sets meters like this apart is the willingness on the part of the manufacture to do something different. It might not be reflective of the big knob in the center that we have seen for the last 25 years, but at leas they tried something. If the meter is successful that will finance a higher quality one.QuoteI'm still waiting for Dave to list his new meter on his store. I could really use one to keep at home.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 09:04:26 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on November 26, 2020, 03:09:59 amFlukehasmade quite a few "innovative" meters over the years but they stopped doing it, I guess it made less money than their main cash cows (or ate into the sales of the premium meters).Fluke's business model is based around corporate accounts who pay $500 for a meter without asking questions, they're not interested in hobbyists.Quote from: wizard69 on November 26, 2020, 03:09:59 amQuote from: wizard69 on November 26, 2020, 03:09:59 amThe new one is looking good so far. The previous one was a bit of a disaster.Third time lucky for Dave...?PS: For non-industrial/non-AC electronics you can do everything you need with a cheap Chinese meter, no problem. Brymens, etc., are luxury meters - buy one if you have the money but they're not a necessity.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 11:10:43 am
content: I do wonder if the ongoing popularity of the 'classics' by Fluke (77, 79, etc.) means the market has tried and rejected graphical displays in favour of functional minimalism?From a personal point of view I find a swinging needle analogue movement far easier to null or peak adjustments and for my needs a digital meter just has to display volts/ohms/amps and have a *fast* continuity buzzer, extras like diode check is useful, capacitance, meh, frequency, no, I've got counters that do a far better job.One addition I might use would be PWM duty cycle measurement expressed as a simple percentage.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 04:25:23 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 26, 2020, 11:10:43 amIMHO: I don't think "graphical" displays add anything to multimeters but they can drain batteries really fast.I wouldn't want to have battery anxiety on any instrument that I depend on.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:40:46 pm
content: There might be a market for a more modern Fluke 289. Something with a lot of logging, graphing and analysis features along with a nice big touchscreen. That is not going to replace a general-purpose meter though. For simple tasks it would likely be less convenient than a normal one and as others have mentioned, it would definitely eat batteries fast.Unless I am missing something, this one seems like the worst of both worlds? The (fixed?) LCD mode indicator still takes up a lot of space, but is less functional than a physical one. I guess it is cheaper to make though.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on November 26, 2020, 05:40:46 pmIt probably makes the meter thinner and more reliable.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:57:42 pm
content: True, I didn't really realize how much thinner this is. So if you reduce the mode indicator to a more reasonable size, but keep the nice big two line display and bargraph, you might end up with a pretty nice compact-class multimeter. Safety will be an issue though if you have so little volume to work with and want to have a current range as well (clearly this one is NOT actually 600V CAT III).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 07:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on November 26, 2020, 05:57:42 pmIt's pretty nice as-is and it's about the only pocket meter I know that's feature-complete (for me).Quote from: switchabl on November 26, 2020, 05:57:42 pmIt plays the usual trick of writing "600V CAT III" in between the COM and volts terminal then writes "MAX 250V" in between the COM and current terminal. Right there it's busted as a CAT-rated meter.Whether or not it meets the rating on the volts terminal is another story, although itmight.nb. It has some smarts: It seems to disconnect the amps socket with its little relay when you're not in amps mode. When you're in amps mode it beeps every few seconds as a warning. It detects a lead in the amps socket and won't let you go to any other mode until you pull it out.(which is another thing a soft switch can do that a rotary dial can't)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 07:41:27 pm
content: Here's a pic of the inside of mine.The amps socket is on the right (the one with two solder tabs - one will be for lead detection, the other for the amps).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 02:08:53 pm
content: Just noticed that Dave did a half-review of this meter:I also noticed the connector at top left on the PCB (J2), I wonder if there's a serial output on there...Edit:a) Nope. There's no signals coming out of J2.b) My NCV detection works from a couple of inches away. I'm not sure what Dave was doing wrong. It can also do that thing where you plug in only the red lead and you can poke at wires and it beeps when they're live - safer than trying to connect two leads.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 04:51:03 pm
content: How to use this meter in its case:

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 05:14:10 pm
content: If you look at the number of contacts on a rotary switch in any modern multimeter, you'll realise how much needs to be replaced with digital switches, or in some cases, real relays, to replicate that.And for what advantage? It's a little thinner but few people really care about that. It'll probably use more power (relays need power to actuate, even if they're latching type) and cost more to make. Multimeters aren't consumer toys like smartphones, I suspect there's a good reason they haven't been optimised in this way.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 05:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 01, 2020, 05:14:10 pmI think having it power up in "Auto" mode will make it a lot easier for people who don't know anything about meter safety.If they put the lead in the "wrong" socket for measuring mains AC it will also beep at them every couple of seconds - another plus.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 06:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 01, 2020, 05:14:10 pmOften very little, many of the contact is a digital encode to tell the multimeter chip what position is selected.Of real switching you can get away with mA/uA shunt and current generator connected or not. The mV & temp input will sometimes piggy back on the electronic controlled current generator.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:24:13 am
content: Quote from: HKJ on December 01, 2020, 06:40:16 pmYep. I doubt that much of the signal goes through that switch. It will be digital signals to configure the rest of the system and can easily be replaced by a microcontroller.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:17:41 pm
content: What breaks this meter for me is the screen not being clear facing head on, the continuity is slow and sometimes will settle on resistance not continuity, and the current measurement is too low at .6 amps.The vendor I worked with on Amazon said they were having some screen problem and wanted to send me a new meter. They eventually sent two more meter for me to test and everyone had this screen fade out at straight on angels. If I tilt it back away from me, the screen gets very clear and crisp. They admitted the problem.So I have three of these now and will probably never use them.Here is the link to the review:https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2SJ7GHH5TTRS3/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B08CXKSXQF

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: DW1961 on December 11, 2020, 10:17:41 pmMine is the same. I mentioned this earlier.For occasional use as a "pocket meter" it's OK. As a daily driver it would annoy me too much.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:58:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 11, 2020, 10:23:37 pmExactly! I just can't use it for that reason. If they could fix the screen and continuity, plus get the current rating up to 10 amps, I'd be very positive about it.I was as nice as I could be in my Amazon review. The people selling it are really nice and it's not their fault. It's the manufacturer.I also doubt all the positive reviews they are getting. I think they are paying for those reviews. There are some outfits trying to make money from upping review status on Amazon by offering many positive reviews. The way it work is that the outfit pays people to buy the meters, and then pays them to review them positively, and then that outfit gets reimbursed, plus profit from, the seller. I mean, how could anyone review that screen positively--or, maybe the screen is intermittently defective? Who knows.BTW, the screen fade starts at about 15:47 of my video review.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:57:08 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on December 11, 2020, 10:58:10 pm600mA is OK for me.I'm keeping it because it's about the only really complete pocket meter I have. All the others I own have some major missing feature - no amps, can't light LEDs, ... there's always something else I need. This one does it all.PS: For higher amps you can keep a 0.1 Ohm shunt resister in the case.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 07:22:21 am
content: Best pocket DMM in my opinion is the Amprobe AM-47, basically the Brymen BM27s but with a better mode selector design.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:44:46 am
content: Quote from: J-R on December 12, 2020, 07:22:21 amWhat do you do with the probes when it's in your pocket?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:56:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 12, 2020, 11:44:46 amDunno about while, but after...https://www.bodyjewelleryshop.com/online_store/surgical_steel_217.cfm

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:22:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 26, 2020, 07:26:42 pmWhy not put the CAT ratingonthe LCD? That way it would be really easy for the manufacturer to change the rating for different markets / distributors.They could even extend it with a one-time breakable link so that it could innocently display a lower CAT rating after a teardown.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on November 26, 2020, 03:09:59 amFluke 289Honestly I do not see any reason to have power-hungry color dot matrix display on multimeter. I rather look for long battery life instead.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 01:11:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 12, 2020, 11:44:46 amFrequently I just put the bare DMM in my pocket with the leads looped up neatly. But the case works quite well also, and it all still fits in my shirt pockets.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 01:24:36 pm
content: The slow continuity and the range confusion is something I also observed on my Richmeters RM102Pro (Aneng 113D). I don't think it is easily fixablr - after all, before the meter puts out a voltage for the continuity, it needs to properly sense any voltages, however small. What saves the RM102Pro is that it also has a manual selection of measurements as well.As for compactness, I still love the Sanwa PM300 that I bought when Dave did that massive promotion a few years ago. At least here in the US, they cost too much "in the wild".Despite not having current measurements, it does everything else quite well and is powered by a CR2032 (doesn't leak). It is the meter that stays in my bag.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 04:57:37 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on December 12, 2020, 01:24:36 pmYep, but it would be good to be able to switch it into "continuity" mode for when you need faster responses.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 04:59:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 12, 2020, 04:57:37 pmOh, certainly. The multimeter in question does not seem to allow that, but the RM102Pro does. That is what saves it.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 09:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on December 12, 2020, 04:59:35 pmEddie over at KISS who did the Youtube video and I both recommended they do that.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 09:25:38 pm
content: The HT112B is in stock at Amazon for around $30 with free shipping and arrives tomorrow. It's kind of an interesting meter and I look forward to playing with it.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 01:40:08 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 18, 2020, 09:25:38 pmLooking forward to what you think. The screen ruined for me first, and second the laggy continuity. can't do much on my end with a 60mH current rating either.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 02:03:15 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 18, 2020, 09:25:38 pmOK I'll bite too. I ordered one from Amazon this evening.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 02:08:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 26, 2020, 04:25:23 pmI agree completely. I have zero interest in a graphical display on a multimeter and cannot imagine what possible advantage it would bring to the table. You certainly get the disadvantage of not being able to read it easily in bright sunlight, something that many multimeters experience frequently. You get a heavier, more power hungry more fragile meter, and it does what for you? Looks pretty? My multimeter is a tool, one of the most used tools I own, not a fashion accessory.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 09:24:29 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 19, 2020, 02:08:40 amAgree, I own a multimeter to use, it needs to be accurate, functional, reliable and tough enough to survive, I don't need it to be a poor alternative for other test equipment.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 06:30:51 pm
content: I just found that the case for this meter is aperfectfit for a Fluke 101.(plus the leads from an Aneng 8008 - the Fluke leads are huge)The case is the best thing about this meter, every cloud has a silver lining.