Sourcing chips from Alibaba - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2023, 09:05:49 am
content: Hello,I saw alibaba and aliexpress sellers offering AD chips like ADV7842 which is a very complicated chip which cannot be faked (or so I think). Same is the famous ITE6613 which is good and demanded. Prices are usually less than original one from manufacturer and distributors.for example, here are some prices I got quickly:ADV7842 -> 8.6$ (from LCSC about 12.5$)ITE6613 -> 4.2$So can these be trustworthy?also, where are they getting them from? my guess would be desoldering them from old stuff but this won't give them any good quantity.on a side note, I want EVAL-ADV7842 (non-HDCP version) and one supplier from alibaba offered it for 3000$ which is more than x10 times its original price. AD usually sold these for 220-280$ without any requirement but since many people (LaserDisc community for example) started buying this eval board for their own personal end-user use, AD started demanding HDMI license to buy these boards. I didn't contact them yet but hoped to find one for cheap or reasonable price.what do you think?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2023, 09:11:22 am
content: Very good chance you will get a fake, either a chip with the same pin count, but with the markings blacktopped and laser etched again, or you will get used chips, recovered from ewaste, and cleaned and retinned on the legs. Original new very unlikely.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2023, 10:15:17 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 12, 2023, 09:11:22 amdo people resort to getting these chips or no one actually do this?faking chips you mean just a cover with same markings while inside is very different?what made me taking it seriously is that the prices are reasonable. not so cheap but not like OEM. I don't know the actual price of ITE6613 but for ADV7842 it is about 13$ new from LCSC (despite being restricted due to HDMI license, don't know how LCSC got it) and Winsource (heard it is unreliable).

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2023, 01:29:42 pm
content: No semiconductor device sourced from random Chinese sellers should be trusted farther than you can throw it. SeanB outlined most of the usual scam(s).There's a good thread here where various eBay/ali opamps were decapped, IIRC most used the same die, no real correlation between markings and performance.Sometimes I buy cheap UVEPROMs on eBay, I get about half of them for free because they're grossly misrepresented. Dirty solder dipped parts with random date codes are not NOS, nor is it proper handling to package them by stacking the dips up and wrapping the stack in cling wrap. I did once get what looked to be genuine NOS, shipped in tubes, seller gone without a trace when I went back for more.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 07:28:22 am
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on September 12, 2023, 01:29:42 pmI know that for general generic items like opamps or so that most are scams or replicas. however, my point was those 2 ICs I pointed out, which are very complicated and not easily replicated.LCSC replied to my email and guaranteed they are original, and they are selling them using original price itself of 12-13$... this is for adv7842 but for ite6613 only aliexpress\alibaba exists. it6613 was featured in OSSC project which is very famous and open source... aliexpress is full of it, so i guess they get genuine functional ICs to do it.but I am with you, no generic ic should be bought from there... or at least one needs to test.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 11:18:47 pm
content: LSCS sells genuine parts, as has been discussed many times here.LCSC has the ADV7842 for $10 or $11 so there is no reason to buy from aliexpress for $9.it6613 no idea, the aliexpress sellers have a few sales but only one 5 star review posted with no details. I would have a test setup ready to go, buy from that top seller (LSXW), test them as soon as you get them, and see. Its only $2/ea anyway.I've bought high end AD parts from Ali/taobao and they were genuine, but you have to take some precautions. Don't immediately choose the lowest price. Ideally choose a seller that seems to know IC's, etc.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2023, 11:41:00 pm
content: You can find real chips on Alibaba and Aliexpress. You will also find complete fakes. How do you tell the difference before you pay? That's the golden question.Once you pay, there is very little chance you will ever get your money back. Ali claims to have "assurance" programs in place, but they have very, very high burdens of proof you have to overcome. The vendors know all the details, so they will run you in circles. You will not see your money again.You talked about it being hard to design a "fake" replacement, which may be true. But they don't need to design anything. They just use the same packages and mark them up like the chips they say they are selling. They don't even try very hard to make them look real. They appear to be fake and they will not work.But, there's always a chance you could be buying real chips. Who knows?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 05:33:14 am
content: My experience with AliExpress customer protection was OK so far. (But on Alibaba things probably work differently.)I posted "evidence" like measuring some parameters with DMM and getting results different than in the datasheet, cracking the chips to reveal a wrong die inside or pointing out differences between the dodgy fake logo applied by those vendors and the real logo that should be on the chip. I'm 100% sure that people (if they weren't robots) reading my disputes had absolutely no idea what I'm talking about - it just needs to look like you know what you are doingThe key is to have a test setup ready and verify the performance aspects which matter to you within 14 days of receiving the chips.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:23:45 am
content: so eventually it is case by case matter with no general rule to follow, testing is a must. so i can't just ship the ICs to pcb manufacturer and let them use the chips directly... unless I actually get the finished boards then verify each one. meaning, i can't make the boards then ship them to customers without actual testing.on a side note, eval-adv7842-7511p seems to be not available as previous times due to mentioned reasons above. all shady dealers offer it for about 3000$ which is insane... however i found it on radwell here:https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/ANALOG%20DEVICES/ANALOG%20DEVICES/EVAL-ADV7842-7511P/anyone tried them? i emailed them and still waiting for their response.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 09:49:40 am
content: Quote from: magic on September 14, 2023, 05:33:14 amI tested the chips immediately. I had a signed letter from the manufacturer of the legitimate chips that the markings on the chip showed it was fake (invalid date code and wrong logo). As you say, while this makes it clear to us the parts are fake, Alixxxx has no clue. Then, there's the language barrier. The sellers know the system and know how to work it.I won't buy a flea comb from Ali anymore.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2023, 12:03:04 pm
content: AE doesn't like accepting "counterfeit item" claims for some reason*, they demand unreasonable evidence and reject the claim or change it to "not as described" without explanation.I have learned that it's better to file "item not as described" right away and show how it fails to meet specification, behaves wrong or doesn't work at all. Then they don't overthink the evidence and usually just side with the buyer by default. Screwing up sellers is what these trade platforms are all aboutRelevant thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/aliexpress-gotcha-damaged-item-claim-implies-shipping-damage-(to-them)/msg3931490/#msg3931490*I speculate it's because AE doesn't want official statistics to show the real magnitude of counterfeit trade on their site.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 11:13:22 am
content: Alibaba is very different to Aliexpress. Alibaba is a sensible way to buy Chinese parts directly from Chinese factories. I bought some Chinese made parts that for that part are the best in the world. It's from a Chinese company and as long as you're ordering full reels from a factory, you're sensible on price and you communicate clearly what you want you'll do fine.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 02:41:53 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on September 15, 2023, 11:13:22 amYes, everything you've said, is absolutely true, except for when it isn't.How do you know they are a factory, and not a scammer with very nice photos of their"factory"? If you have dealt with them before, fine. But how do you not get ripped off on the first order???

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 02:51:22 pm
content: When something is cheaper than the current market price, the phrase CAVEAT EMPTOR immediately comes to my mind.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 07:35:22 pm
content: to be honest, I have positive experience with alibaba companies buying connectors like scart, rca, vga, s-video, and so on. the rca is customized color and so on. very cheap price and honest in everything.. but kinda slow and tiresome due to bad english and them being busy.however, my question was about ICs which I didn't test before.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 07:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on September 15, 2023, 11:13:22 amThere a plenty of factories on alibaba, however most of sellers on alibaba are not actual factories even though they say to be. They are just middlemen pretending to be something more.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 08:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on September 15, 2023, 02:41:53 pmClassically, you don't get ripped off on thefirstorder, you get ripped off when you return to order 100x more.That said, the incentive to create counterfeit parts is somewhat lower now that mainstream sources are recovering. I think a lot of Chinese vendors are stuck with warehouses full of very real, very legitimate parts that they hoarded with the expectation of gouging desperate customers.And as others have noted, LCSC does have a reasonably-good reputation. I wouldn't be too nervous about buying from them as an alternative to AE vendors you may not feel so confident about.