Is it worth an extra $90 to get an ESD-safe chair? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: spinningcog
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:50:13 am
content: I'm in need of a new chair for my workbench. I currently have an ESD mat and strap (though I'm perhaps not as religious about using the strap as I should be, I thought just making sure I had contact with the mat would be enough, but now that I'm looking at chairs I'm perhaps less sure.)I've been looking at some Bevco products, and the chair I'm considering can be purchased in an ESD safe version or a non esd safe version.http://www.all-spec.com/products/7551-BL.htmlhttp://www.all-spec.com/products/7551ESD.htmlMy project thus far are in the Arudion/555/lm74 range, so the additional cost of an ESD safe chair seems warranted, furthermore I don't have esd safe flooring, so I suspect I'd have to add some tethering from the chair to a ground source, to make it actually esd effective (though this might present a tripping hazard...)However a polyurathane chair is liable to create significant static, and if I spend the dough now I won't have to get a second chair If I discover it was necessary.Am I being totally overkill, or is this something I should consider?-Will

author: spinningcog
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:55:48 am
content: Whoops, should say:"so the additional cost of an ESD safe chair seemsunwarranted"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 02:37:24 am
content: If you are serious about ESD in a serious work environment, then yes, the ESD safe chair can make a big difference.But for your average lab, no, not really warranted.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:10:43 am
content: Your existing mat and strap should be a reasonable level of protection, so long as you use them.Either save the difference, or use it for something you need and can get better use out of.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:38:50 am
content: Without an ESD safe floor, then the chair offers little benefit.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:42:04 am
content: I solved my home ESD problem by switching from regular Crocs to ESD safe crocs. Used to have very noticeable sparks when touching things around the house but none since the change. For electronics work I use them in conjunction with a an ESD mat and strap (and a plain chair).http://blog.all-spec.com/2013/04/product-spotlight-crocs-esd-lites-conductive-shoes/

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 09:15:55 am
content: Quote from: zapta on June 12, 2014, 04:42:04 amPerhaps I should get some ESD safe socks - I don't wear shoes in the house, though I suppose going bare foot would get rid of static with the added risk of grounding myself too well.I was initially posting this in a slightly humorous vein but I see people do do anti-static socks :http://www.esdapparel.com/index,16,ESD-Socks.htmlI wonder if they do anti-static underwear, you can't be too careful ...

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 09:33:25 am
content: Quote from: jpb on June 12, 2014, 09:15:55 amI suggest you try making your own with some of the silvery anti-static bags and a stapler. Let us know how it works out.

author: xwarp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 10:07:15 am
content: Bathe in this:http://www.electronicsnmore.com/hand-cleaners-lotions-esd/antibacterial-ohm-stat-anti-static-hand-soap-500-ml/,and work nekkid.A solution looking for a problem!

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 10:41:47 am
content: For only $45 I will sell you a 45-cent chain and a 5 cent screw to fasten it to the bottom of the chair.However, as KJDS said, without a conductive floor surface to work with, it is false security.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 06:16:34 pm
content: Fabric softener and no final rinse, then you have antistatic socks. Wash the floor with it and the floor is antistatic as well, and nicely fragranced. Cheap and simple, and used by carpet cleaning companies to control static charge in office buildings.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 11:11:15 am
content: Quote from: xwarp on June 12, 2014, 10:07:15 amIf your gear is sensitive enough to be affected by the static charge that build up when you spread your fingers, the chair is probably not the most expensive part in your lab. Also don't forget to get a lot of those cans with anti-static air to fill the room.If the chair doesn't build charge, you can, so you must buy complementary esd labcoat, shoes, pants, socks and underwear.And then you find out nearly all semiconductors produced today contain esd protection diodes. Only seperate parts don't. (expecially mosfets, they die quick) But for all other parts you can just wear the wrist strap.At the company we do not have those chairs, we have the floor, but not the desks or shoes. Yet nothing was ever proven failed due to esd. It all depends on your parts. But we do have this colleague who can shock everyone when he doesn't wear his wrist strap and just walked around...hilarious.(he uses those esd shoe stickers, since its due to the shoes)

author: jimjam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 04:48:48 pm
content: This thread is starting to become humorous from the time I scrolled down to the photo of an ESD safe crocs! I cannot believe they made them!What type of floor do you have?

author: chrissmeuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 09:57:37 pm
content: I worked for a chunk of time in a supposedly ESD sensitive zone of a company in the manufacturing department. We had pick and place machines etc and lab benches. Usual production line stuff. State of the art at the time. However the entire floor was cheap office tiles on concrete. These were basically large capacitors.Even with the ESD shoes (with ankle strap), the big blue ESD lab coat and all that, you could scuff your feet along the floor and generate enough potential to zap an elephant.Their failure rate was still pretty low though (0.5% on short runs, mainly military RF transponders).

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 10:16:59 pm
content: Quote from: chrissmeuk on June 15, 2014, 09:57:37 pmThey might even have been proper ESD safe at one time, but the contract janitor just using the wrong floor wax can have a big effect on how the floor performs for ESD.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2014, 06:16:38 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 15, 2014, 10:16:59 pmI've seen that happen in two places.

author: djococaud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2014, 09:49:05 am
content: In my case, I've NEVER blown anything with ESD when prototyping, and I'm mot specially carefull... I Just touch the earth pin of the nearest mains socket before soldering, but that's all...Don't worry about ESD when you're soldering at home...

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 09:10:53 am
content: Quote from: chrissmeuk on June 15, 2014, 09:57:37 pmThat was there ESD system and they passed auditing and certification for manufacture of Military Equipment? AMAZING! Must have been very very low risk ESD sensitive devices.

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 09:19:05 am
content: Quote from: spinningcog on June 12, 2014, 12:50:13 amJust to clarify is that "arduino/555/lm74 range" if you are not manufacturing and you already have a mat and strap you should be safe enough. Just take general precautions and check your ESD Mat and Strap grounding every month or so. At my home work bench I don't use anything, I just make sure I work sensibly in regard to ESD and what I do at home is generally low risk anyway

author: chrissmeuk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2014, 01:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: What_NZ on June 19, 2014, 09:10:53 amThese were prototype labs. They were low cost recycled crap from older projects. They didn't have to be inspected or certified at the time. Basically once the prototypes were done, they bothered to invest in decent labs for production i.e. once the purchaser had agreed to pay up for the proposal.They were high risk devices and expensive. High end mil cert Xilinx FPGAs, PPC 603s in QFP packages and stupid high end DACs along with a loads of ancillary ICs (all mil-spec gold+ceramics). I think the BOM for one unit on the project was about £15k at prototype phase. We did 4 layer PCBs and pick and place in house as well which was "interesting" in this environment.

author: What_NZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2014, 12:19:39 am
content: Quote from: chrissmeuk on June 19, 2014, 01:34:04 pmYes, it would have been "interesting", I could only imagine such a setup! High contrast to what I saw in Japan, conductive tape on the floor, sticky conductive mats, head to toe ESD, even the truck that delivered the parts, backed into huge copper spikes that grounded the truck for off-loading.I don't think they would mind if I showed some photo's as the whole plant is gone now.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2014, 03:52:54 pm
content: Quote from: jimjam on June 15, 2014, 04:48:48 pmThe ESD Crocs are for real and really solved my problem, not just with electronic works but getting zapped in general while touching stuff at home. I switched from regular Crocs that apparently are infamous for causing static chargeshttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/19/2