Obvious Shortcomings in Phone Design - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:07:57 am
content: is very thin design so much better vs a thick ruggedized phone with more battery?as a non-phone user I have to question the logic behind the poor design choice,for those that own an expensive hand held computer that is so easily dropped or cracked.do your expensive phones need lanyards & deep bezels to protect the glass on both sides of the device.many cheap cameras have a lens cap or a recessed lens glass.a cheap AM FM radio has a lanyard. but an expensive phone has no lanyard hole or clip.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:43:00 am
content: What a weird question. If you don't buy or use phones why would your opinion on the design choices matter?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:47:39 am
content: Thinner phone goes in a pocket much easier and with less disturbance than a thick one. What would be nice is if they didn't keep making the things longer.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:51:56 am
content: For what it’s worth, I sure do wish Apple would make a version of the iPhone that is maybe 2-3mm thicker than current models (and still no thicker than the original iPhone!!), where the extra thickness enables 2-3x the battery capacity.I also wish they’d re-release the iPhone mini. I don’t like how phones keep getting bigger and bigger, with ever-shrinking screen borders that result in a device that’s difficult to hold and use with one hand only.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 11:53:44 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 06, 2025, 11:47:39 amSure, but it’s not as though we need to go back to phones that were 20mm thick — even though those fit in our pockets just fine, too, back in the day! Just a few mm extra would enable a lot more battery.As for ruggedness, most of us put on a case anyway, and those easily add a few more mm.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:13:32 pm
content: Maybe it's the way I wear clothes or something, but I found anything 9mm or thicker just doesn't slide into a pocket well. Longer battery life would be nice, but not if it becomes a drag to take the phone with you.OTOH I see people (usually girls for some reason) with a BFO phone half out of a back pocket. A thin phone isn't going to last past the first sit down, I suspect.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:23:14 pm
content: Don't most phones get damaged through dropping? In which case how does greater thickness help? It would help if the main problem were people sitting on their phones, and bending them. With dropping anything that reduces the weight reduces the impact. My experience is modest drops that smashed screens, and broke corners 10 or 15 years ago usually don't leave any marks on a modern phone. Of course, it might just be that modern pliable cases and glass screen protectors are the big improvement.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:38:59 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on January 06, 2025, 12:23:14 pmBy integrating stronger frames and/or rubber bumpers. And by slightly recessing the display so that drops onto flat surfaces don’t result in the glass touching anything.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2025, 12:38:59 pmThe greater thickness comes with so much extra weight that the impact is much greater, and you need that extra strength. Now, if the extra thickness is a balloon like case around a slim light phone.......

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:50:25 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2025, 12:38:59 pmOne reason I like a thinner phone is because I can put a decent case on it without the lot becoming too thick.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:53:57 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on January 06, 2025, 12:40:56 pm”So much extra weight?” The extra internal volume is then filled with more lipo battery, which is not particularly heavy. So you’re really reinforcing the frame more than anything. And integrating rubber bumpers doesn’t change the total weight any more than putting on a rubber case.Quote from: PlainName on January 06, 2025, 12:50:25 pmSure. But we aren’t talking about adding 10mm of padding here.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2025, 11:51:56 amApple kind of did that - they released a case with a built in battery pack that integrated nicely with iOS, the Smart Battery Case. It added 11Wh of capacity to a phone with 11Wh itself, effectively doubling runtime. It was discontinued, presumably because consumers didn't find it as attractive as they had thought.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 01:47:13 pm
content: Without getting a tape measure out, my phone is about 80*40*15mm, fits in any of my pockets, isn't damaged by keys, and has been dropped off a roof ~6m onto concrete without damage.What more could I want?EDIT: measuring it gives 105*55*19mm.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:06:55 pm
content: ,QuoteTry squatting down to work on something and see how long it lasts

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:30:50 pm
content: I have a Samsung Xcover Pro which is not that thin to start with, and I still have an external case on it to make it thicker and easier to handle without dropping. I see people drop their thin phones all the time. A couple times I have seen people put thin phones in their back pockets, who then sit on them and damage the phone.Number one on my wish list is a phone with a larger battery for a longer operating time between charges, whether it is thicker or not.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 02:54:36 pm
content: I am very much opposed to the "make is as thin as possible" imperative. Yes, phones need to go into pockets, but even so I would be delighted to have another few mm on mine if it meant doubling the battery life.But for me, the big one is tablets. My Samsung Galaxy Tab S8 Ultra tablet is ridiculously thin, and the price for that thinness is a device that won't even come close to a day's worth of continuous use. I frequently have to plug it in in the early evening to keep it going.The reasons to make a tablet extra-thin are far less compelling than those for a phone. Mine is 5.5mm thick and I would be perfectly comfortable with a tablet substantially thicker if it meant (say) a two-day battery life.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 03:22:56 pm
content: If you're a non-phone user, it could be worth just briefly trying a smartphone, because that's the easiest way to see first-hand if there are indeed poor design decisions, and how you might want to change a phone. With a hand-me-down phone, it will cost about the same as a pizza to try a phone for a month using a pay-as-you-go card.For instance, looking from the outside, one might think phones should be substantially thicker and ruggedized. But, I suspect the people who actually need ruggedized phones, will still tend to break them (e.g. due to the nature of their jobs). Some people go through life rarely damaging their phone. Plus, it's not about improving every element of the phone. There's a cost involved with that, and the end physical result may be undesired by consumers. There are other ways to delight the consumer, e.g., Apple (as I understand) is exceptional at that, with AppleCare making smashed screens a solved problem without requiring any additional ruggedization. I've not needed that, because I'm happy with my Samsung phone (I've never smashed a screen; a puffed battery damaged a screen once, but it was replaced by the manufacturer).At a lower cost, there are plenty of non-engineers who will self-repair their phone screens from YouTube videos because it's not always practical to pay your way out of problems.There are also two-or-three-times-in-a-lifetime events when you absolutely need to be contacted in an emergency, or people are desperate to contact you, so that's sometimes a good enough reason to have a phone where a damaged screen is the least of your worries. And most people don't want to be known to be unreliable at being contactable at times when friends/family need them. I appreciate some people have their loved ones mostly nearby. But I've certainly been in the unfortunate situation where I've needed to be contacted on the other side of the world.Funny story; at Xmas time, I rang my friend's father to ask him where his son was (we were meeting somewhere and I couldn't find him briefly). Later that evening, my friend mentioned that he was surprised his dad answered because he easily gets annoyed because he's retired from the family business, and people still contact him for advice rather than his son, and he can't enjoy his time off.After an hour or two, I had to ask: "Hold on, how and why do I have your dad's phone number?!". It took lots of digging into configuration screens, to realize that my friend had set his phone to divert-on-second-call-attempt to his dad, since summer.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 03:24:57 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 06, 2025, 01:47:13 pmThat's not a phone, it's tablet!

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 03:25:01 pm
content: A good protective case with raised edges, such as Apple’s own silicone case, helps reduce the risk of glass damage from drops. For everything else, there’s AppleCare+, which covers screen replacements for a small deductible.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 04:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on January 06, 2025, 11:07:57 amI have dumb phone so i dont have the issues you have!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 06, 2025, 02:06:55 pmWhy do you think would that be a problem?N.B. now I've measured it, it is 105*55*19mm.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 06, 2025, 03:24:57 pmAbsolutely not! Not even with revised measurements of 105*55*19mm.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: MT on January 06, 2025, 04:29:01 pmNo, you have a phone.Others have a general purpose computer with in-built phone.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:29:02 pm
content: Quotecauses thats what bust the screen on my last 2 phones,forget there in your pocket,squat down to do something and the way my leg/pocket bends it twists the phone

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 05:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 06, 2025, 05:29:02 pmIn a front pocket my leg would be severely bruised before my phone was damaged.In a rear pocket it would be uncomfortable for me, but the phone wouldn't be twisted (or otherwise harmed).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 06:26:10 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on January 06, 2025, 12:58:29 pmThat’s an accessory, which is preciselynotwhat a bigger internal battery is.I had that for my previous iPhone. (Two of them, actually. And I have a similar third-party one for my subsequent iPhone.)But it adds way more than 2-3mm thickness, since a) the battery is a “hump” over only part of the phone, not spread around its entire footprint, b) it adds length too, because of the connectors, and c) it adds more thickness than a larger internal battery would, since the case has to have a full enclosure for the LiPo battery.Apple made a MagSafe battery pack for a few years, but it’s discontinued too.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:31:34 pm
content: I too am a 'non-cell-phone' user, (I only use a land line), but I bought myself a cheap unlocked cell phone which I use as a tablet. I got it on Amazon for $79, and the brand name is BLU. It works quite well, but it doesn't work quite as well as my dedicated Samsung Tab3 9.7" tablet. The battery life is not that great, but it is handy to carry in my pocket.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:44:56 pm
content: Here's my perspective as a semi-non-smartphone user:First of all, what do I mean by that? I own a smartphone (Tracfone*here; cheapest I could find @ $15/mo.).However,I only use it as a phone.No web surfing, email, etc., on it; for that I have a desktop computah.So my take is:I don't care how sturdy or fragile the goddamn thing is!Because I don't walk around with it all day, pulling it out of my pocket or whatever to check on things.In fact, I don't even take it out of the house.It's a phone.*The phone that admits it's a tracking device.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 08:48:34 pm
content: Lets face it, design considerations like thinness are to appeal to consooooomers, and that's where the money is.I accept that I'm in a niche. I like and prefer the idea of a rugged phone as a tool, but the offerings are limited and locked down.For a tinkerer like me, I've found the google pixel with grapheneos installed to be the best all rounder in terms of customisability and focus as a tool (as opposed to a piece of spyware bait for consooomers).Yes it's a portable computer with phone functions, but that's actually very useful to me.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 02:54:13 am
content: Quote from: John B on January 06, 2025, 08:48:34 pmAnd that begs the question: were consumersreallydemanding a phone just 5mm thick? I was never aware of such a demand. And as already said, all else being equal these super-thin phones are definitely prone to breaking when in your back pocket and you crouch down (or sit on them).Rather, I think it was an industry-led thing. Somebody - presumably Apple, as they are the main innovators - decided to diffentiate their phones from the competition by making them thinner and, crucially, making the gullible buyers believe that they want or need a thinner phone.And thus they kicked off an arms race that has become ridiculous. I wish I could buy a smartphone with a genuine 24 hour (two 12 hour working days) full-on run time. I mean real work, not looping a video on half brightness till the battery dies. And I would gladly live with a substantially thicker phone if it would give me a substantially longer battery life.The demand for phones barely thicker than a razor blade definitely didn't come from me!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 03:23:26 am
content: If you're willing to go beyond the big companies, there are plenty of other designs of smartphones available besides "thin and fragile".

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 10:34:26 am
content: QuoteThere are many things that people don't know they want until they have it, so there might not be demand for this until it's already there.Think about laptops and how those from the 80286 age were pretty bloody fantastic, albeit short battery life (or none at all) and aren't they thin! And how did we get from there, where everyone was perfectly happy with that literal slab of a device to now where the super-thin Apple things are really great to carry and use. I have a Dell laptop that folds back on itself to be a tablet, but it's useless at that because it's still laptop thickness. I have two A5 ereaders and the thinner one is so much easier and nicer to use and carry (or it would be had it not gained a camera bulge which won't let it lay down flat).How about TVs and screens that are only 3" thick - surely that's more than thin enough for anyone. But people prefer really thin ones that don't bulge out of the wall so much (apparently).I would suggest that it depends on your usage and why you have a phone as to whether thinness or battery or length or weight or any other factor is important to you. I can appreciate the extended battery life that a thicker case might bring, but for me my current phone lasts long enough (3-4 days) and if it lasted longer but was thicker that would be no good to me. For someone else playing Youtube all day, that phone might only last 12 hours and more battery would be OK (and it spends its time propped up on the table anyway). YMMV.There must be... not a demand per se, but enough sales to warrant making thin phones. Who goes to Apple and says "Hey, make this damn phone 1mm thinner"? But bring one out and they fly off the shelf. I guess that's commercial demand without the imperative demand.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 12:03:07 pm
content: There was an old truism: "cc is half a compiler; the other half is called lint".Nowadays manufacturers don't want you to think that "thinphone is half a phone; the other half is called a power bank".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2025, 02:17:32 am
content: I want a self-driving phone.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2025, 02:09:26 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 06, 2025, 11:47:39 amThey are made very smooth, too because that looks prettier, but also makes it easier for the clunky big things to fall out of your pocket.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2025, 11:29:03 am
content: Indeed, so it's likely to gain a (textured) case which will add 1-2mm.