Video called "Hear Sound Loss in Speaker Cable" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: conductivity
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 10:36:17 pm
content: HiFi Klubben is a retailer that is located in some European countries. They have marketing about why they choose to sell the expensive audio cables from Argon Audio and Audioquest. Here is an article about that they think one can hear an improvement from the expensive speaker cables. But the difference here is that they link to a video with some experiment:https://www.hifiklubben.dk/inspiration/stereohifi/kan-man-hoere-forskel-paa-kabler/These are the videos that are linked to in their marketing. I couldn't follow the convoluted doings of the man in the videos. Is it just audiophile BS that has no relevance for a speaker cable that is up to about 10 meters long or what is going on? Do you believe that silver-plated cables do not make an audible difference under any normal circumstances?Hear Sound Loss in Speaker Cable - Parts 1 to 4:

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 10:44:26 pm
content: The fact they seem to need an hour to explain losses in an low impedance loudspeaker cable is rather telling.

author: conductivity
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 08:32:17 am
content: Isn't the marketing from HiFi Klubben that links to the video just an epitome of this quotation?"It does help if the 'reviewer' also throws in some facts - they can be random, and don't need to explain anything directly. Inference is far better, because that gives them 'plausible deniability' should they be questioned later."https://sound-au.com/cables.htmDoes anybody know what is actually going on in the video?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 08:37:58 am
content: Your threads seem to be settling into something of a theme...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/wiresleads-in-electronic-terminology/It's good to try to avoid a theme turning into an obsession - there are lots of more interesting things to enjoy out there.

author: conductivity
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 08:46:55 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on June 22, 2022, 08:37:58 amThis thread doesn't quite fit with the one you linked, so there is no "theme" to obsess over in the way you suggested. The other thread was simply about finding out whether cables are electronic components or not. An inquiry driven by scientific curiosity, granted that it could be interpreted as a bit pedantic.I even managed to bring scientific curiosity into this section about dodgy technology, so please don't obsess too much about that.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 11:18:36 am
content: The underlying theme seems quite clear. Your starting posts of both threads refer to is 'Speaker cables'. This one specifically links retailer linked videos ofexpensivespeaker cables and the other thread, a discussion you had beed having on the audiosciencereview.com forum about speaker cables.Regarding the current thread. You need to appreciate that Marketing has virtually nothing to do with actual reality or technical merit, particularly when it comes to high priced 'add-ons'. Hifi and Audiophiliary rapidly turns to Audiophoolery. This extends from Manufacturers, through retailers, to magazine reviewers. The reviewers seem to be, in some measure, taken in by the marketing bullshit that they quote verbatim, and may be partly in cahoots with the suppliers. Certainly, I know from a friend who set up a successful small British Hifi company (not cables!) and who's then girlfriend worked for a Hifi magazine that the likelyhood of getting a revew, and how favourable it, is curiously related to potential and actual advertising spend.Buyers of expensive cables and other items are psycologically bound to hear an improvement - ego won't allowit otherwise (I can't have spent all that money and not be able to hear the difference!). Interconnects also have the advantage of being very hard to do A-B comparisons on as they require time consuming swapping of the connections between listening sessions. The degredation introduced by external fast switching arrangement is bound to swamp out any audible differences.You can watch an almost unlimited number of promotional, and the odd debunking youTube videos on such 'value add' accessories, but at the end of the day, you will be no wiser, and no closer to technical truth.For myself, I much prefer to spend the time design and build my own audio equipment, from sources through amplifiers, to speakers, based on solid engineering principles and my own skills. A far more rewarding use of time.

author: Roehrenonkel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 12:09:26 pm
content: Hi,Quote from: BrokenYugo on June 21, 2022, 10:44:26 pm..okay, but Dave (the guy in the videos) explained his test-jig and checked out a heap of different cables.Imho its a good demonstration without academic BS and without audiophile snakeoil. ;-)Just a pro-audio-geek who likes to play around and listen.At the very end he even debunks the hi-grade audiophile cable. Good one! :-)))

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 12:15:30 pm
content: By "academic BS" do you mean actual comparativedata, as in numbers.

author: Roehrenonkel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 01:43:20 pm
content: Hi Gyro,Quote from: Gyro on June 22, 2022, 12:15:30 pmNo, not at all. Maybe i should have written "over-academic" or even better "abstract".Sorry, i'm not a native english speaker, but i'll try my best.In comparison to some cable-test in HiFi-magazines this was a based demonstration.I belive in my test-gear, but comming from Pro-audio, i also belive in my ears. ;-)))Best regards

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 03:33:46 pm
content: Hi Roehrenonkel,I'm sorry, my reply was unnecessarily sharp and sarcastic. I did find his videos irritating though (I stepped through them) in the time he took to reach basic conclusions. Listening to various levels of white (or maybe pink) noise via his monitoring speaker, microphone and youTube audio seemed flawed to me. Yes, sounds were quieter and louder to me, but that's about all. I would have liked him to at least have measure and correlate the DC resistances of his various lengths of cable. His conclusions seemed to be fairly fundamental, (presumably) lower resistance cables drop less voltage when connected between a source and load (I'm not sure why he occasionally took loads off). Twisted pair is less succeptible to external influences and crosstalk (his flat white foil cable being a prime example), and for best results, don't coil up 50ft of speaker cable(a somewhat pointless test in this respect). He could have fitted that into something much shorter than 4 videos and an hour viewing time.Yes, certainly I like to use my ears too. Poor sound is usually an indication that I've done something wrong (perhaps even subtle things). There are an awful lot of things to get right when designing and building speakers for instance, where adjustment doesn't necessarily follow expected results. At the end of the day, if something doesn't sound good, particularly over a period of months and years, then what's the point.Best Regards,Chris

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 04:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on June 22, 2022, 03:33:46 pmThat was the first thing on my mind when I was looking at him explaining his test rig. "That coil of cable will effect the outcome of the test"Did not watch it any further. A proper test for me would be a setup with a good microphone in a sound dead studio and a proper spectrum analyzer. The human ear is not a good objective device and differs from person to person.Sure a good cable will have less resistance, capacitance and induction so it does not filter to much, but the filter effect will not be that huge considering the low impedance of the speaker. So yes loudness will be audible between a thinner and a thicker cable.Don't have to be a scientist for that

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2022, 02:48:19 pm
content: I just use flexible mains cable for speakers. 0.5mm2is adequate for short runs, up to 5m at 100W into 8R.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2022, 05:12:17 pm
content: I think these tests are only valid if you've already upgraded your power cord to some fancy $25K cable, otherwise the noisy power masks any potential improvement obtained by speaker cables.And it goes without saying you need at least a 128 encoded mp3 as your source.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2022, 05:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 28, 2022, 02:48:19 pmGood grief, I'm amazed you can hear anything apart from mains hum on those! Speaker cables should have silly names and equally silly price tags, otherwise how can the people that buy them know that they are better than you?