Is this real, AI is Ruining the Electric Grid?  AI makes power worse... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 11:15:12 pm
content: Yup. They claim that AI loads are distorting the AC sine wave, lowering the lifespan of some of your appliances if you happen to live close to an AI data centers...Lets see how this thread topic goes...

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 11:19:11 pm
content: Not to mention bitcoin mining centers, the other 800-lb. gorilla on the scene.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:16:59 am
content: It's more like artificial stupidity.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:17:50 am
content: All large power supplies have PFC and because of aggregation I doubt AI is peakier than industrial or other datacenter consumers.Does the video have any measurements or reasons for the assumption?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:18:51 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 19, 2025, 11:15:12 pmWell the answer is very simple. Ask the AI how to fix these problems it has created.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:27:20 am
content: Quote from: Marco on June 20, 2025, 02:17:50 amApparently not, and check out how phony their idea is of what a "harmonically-distorted" wave looks like.To me, the fact that "AI" and bitcoin mining gobble up such vast amounts of electricity is enough to damn them without looking for "wave distortion" boogeymen.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 02:53:25 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 20, 2025, 02:18:51 am

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 03:00:44 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on June 20, 2025, 02:27:20 amI agree on the waste of energy that is bitcoin mining.However, if AI manufacturing & production processes uses less energy than the equivalent energy requirements of providing human manufacturers & producers with housing and food, then I see no issue.Breeding AI engines surely uses less energy than breeding humans?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 03:53:19 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 19, 2025, 11:15:12 pmWell, if the AI stands for Actual Indians ... then maybe that claim is valid.Juse Google for "builder ai scam" ....Hint : "AI fraud: 700 Indian engineers did the work while Builder.ai claimed it was AI (Artificial Intelligence)"

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:32:34 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on June 20, 2025, 02:27:20 amBut I think you already know about harmonic distortion on the mains. Power supplies which take a large gulp of current around the peaks of the waveform can flatten off those peaks, and that flattening causes odd harmonics.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:40:07 am
content: Most larger smps use pfc, or they are supposed to.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 10:55:42 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 19, 2025, 11:15:12 pmA more accurate claim would be that youtube is ruining the electric grid.99.9% of youtube videos that are natural stupidity clickbait slop like that video - and that consume vast amounts of power, time, and mental energy.

author: BadeBhaiya
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 11:12:29 am
content: Its not ideal but I really don't think power utility companies should care what a paying customer uses electricity for. Of course, if the load is bad for the power quality, they must rectify it by PFC and installing large caps on site.Its a strange transition period where power hungry and in general ill suited GPUs are used for running LLM and other AI models, while ASIC based efficient and dedicated hardware is still a few years away.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 03:29:39 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 20, 2025, 10:55:42 amYa, ok... But serving an entire low bitrate video file does not consume even close to the same amount of power as me typing 'Thank You.' or 'Please' into an ChatGPT's AI prompt.But, AI gonna be here from now on...

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 03:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: paul cotter on June 20, 2025, 10:40:07 amI wanted to ask about this. I thought power factor correction was used when the current drawn was out of phase with the supply voltage. I have in mind loads like large motors.But what about a power supply which draws large gulps of current centred around each peak of the mains waveform. My novice-level understanding is that this is quite a common scenario. Those current gulps seem to be in phase with the voltage waveform, and thus would not affect the power factor as previously defined. Rather, it's a different type of behaviour, where the instantaneous current is not proportional to the instantaneous voltage.So aren't these two issues completely different, and fixed in different ways? PFC seems to be about heavily inductive or capacitive loads. Peak "gulping" seems to be about active power supplies. How am I wrong?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 03:56:20 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on June 20, 2025, 03:29:39 pmYou may or may not be right, but you need to multiply those "numbers" by the number of simultaneous users of each service.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:46:48 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 20, 2025, 10:55:42 amOK, possible, but the question is how much energy do YouToob's servers consume compared to those twoknownpower hogs ("AI" and bitcoin mining)? My guess®™ is not nearly as much.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 07:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on June 20, 2025, 10:32:34 amMy understanding (which of course may be incomplete) is that harmonic distortion on power lines is caused by reactive loads, the classic culprit being large industrial motors (inductive loads), hence all those huge capacitor farms. I believe similar distortion can be caused by inductive-ish loads like SMPSs; presumable an "AI" server "farm" would be chock-full of such devices. But then we must have that distortion everywhere, due to the vast number and the ubiquity of such devices, no?Not sure if your "large gulps of power" flattening peaks is just a result of overall reactance or something else.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on June 20, 2025, 07:54:37 pmBridge rectifier followed by a smoothing capacitor.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:52:31 pm
content: Does anyone have any figures for power factors (or %THD) for different parts of the world, or different regions of countries?Surely this is a well-known problem that can be measured and tracked ...

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 08:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on June 20, 2025, 03:43:41 pmboth are called power factor but they should not be. and you can have negative sequence harmonics that actually send power back up the power grid at any harmonic and your watt meter will still only bill you for the rms power consumption.most servers and datacenters are running eltec or something similar, 2-3kw 48 volt switching power supplies running at 99% power factor in a 4" wide 1.25" wide by 15 inch long package.so basically the headline is AI nonsense.what is a problem is the data center loads ramping up and down at 200 megawatts a second and that can be a local distribution voltage regulation problem.one big reason to use PFC is because the input boost converter works from 100 to 265 vac and so you run the system on 208, gives you both surge and brownout protection.