Optical switches (keyboard)? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2018, 06:52:30 pm
content: A keyboard manufacturer claims to use "optical switches", offering benefits over standard mechanical ones.Here are some quotes for "Bloody B418 Keyboard"QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThis product is relatively low priced (vs main mechanical keyboard manufactures). Any thoughts on the validity of the claims or knowledge on what these optical switches might be?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2018, 07:54:49 pm
content: Optical switches are nothing new. But the feel of the press is still defined by the spring of some sort. And with purely mechanical key, the snapping action defines the moment of the press. With optical you need to coordinate to achieve the right feel.Their design does not look cheap, so I guess they did their homework.But the claims overall are mostly marketing. None of those things are an issue in real life. And you need 30 ms of denouncing only on very poorly done switches.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 12:22:56 am
content: You've got to be a mad CS:GO scientist to get any real advantages out of it.I'd go with Cherry MX switches, as they are the household staple forever now. I am currently using what I have been told at MX clears, but they may just be fairly decent domes (I can't tell and I don't want to take this board apart). I would personally go with Greens, because I am a madman who loves to squeeze the living crap out of whatever I am controlling, but a lot of people like blues for the feel. This, however, may just be stuff you already know.They do seem to be a bit optimistic on bashing traditional switches, claiming that metal switches wear out and oxidize easily, and the aforementioned 30ms debounce time. I wouldn't buy, it, as I have a hard time spending any reasonable of money on stuff that's not proven Cherry MX.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 12:36:49 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 30, 2018, 07:54:49 pmFew days ago I disassembled my 2.5 year old Razer keyboard which I bought for EUR 130. Kailh mechanical switches they used are utter crap, most of them when pressed have resistance in a few hundred ohm range, some even 100k. What a joke. It's a miracle it still worked, although I think there were occasional double presses.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 01:03:58 am
content: I bought wireless Logitech G613 with Romer G switches instead of that crap. Apparently Romer G are made by Omron. They feel pretty nice I can say. IMO if you want some tactile feeling and don't want extremely loud MX blue, then they should be the first to look at. The only thing I don't like about them is that there is sound of oscillating springs when you release the keys.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 01:11:28 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 31, 2018, 12:56:10 amI guess you mean Topre switches. Although there is rubber dome but it's completely different construction compared with usual keyboards.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 01:14:09 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 31, 2018, 01:09:23 amI haven't tried Topre, but it more than 2x of the price compared to average mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX.

author: llkiwi2006
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 01:31:24 am
content: There are also hall effect keyboard switches for super reliable operation, if that's what you wanted from optical switches. Otherwise I don't see any advantage.For normal use, the 50 million presses from a cherry mx switch is more than good enough.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 02:05:47 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 31, 2018, 01:28:37 amTell that to IBM M keyboard owners

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 02:06:19 am
content: There are optical switches that can detect how much you pressed on the key and you can configure in the firmware or software at what point the key press should be sent to the PC.Here's an article where a bunch of switches are shown and explained along with some slideshow pictures and videos :http://www.tomshardware.com/news/what-are-optical-keyboard-switches,32352.htmlThere's also switches which can measure how much value it is and actually send that, like a joystick or whatever... see wooting one for example video below

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 08:46:00 am
content: re: TopreI use a 55g Topre keyboard at work. Very nice indeed, and not noisy. Yes, it's a rubber dome, but it's an incredible rubber dome, and it's capacitive sense. Some of their fancier boards actually let you set the sense height, though not the one I have. Most other rubber domes require you to physically bottom out in order to sense.At home, I use a combination of keyboards....some Cherry MC Browns and Blues...a model M...some other odds and ends. My favorite of all time is white/blue Alps ala my old Northgate Omnikey 102 (I had one of the older gold labels). Those old Alps wore out pretty quickly, and I haven't found anything to replace it. I miss that keyboard.re: tactilityAs far as I know, the only keyboards where the tactility actually coincides with actuation are the IBM model F and M. Every other mechanism I know of has separate tactile and sense mechanisms.re: the keyboard referred to in the first postLet me post a couple of excerpts from their site, and this just scratches the surface:Quotehttps://www.bloody.com/en/product.php?pid=11&id=131Quotehttps://www.bloody.com/en/product.php?pid=11&id=155Well, whatever...2.2mm....4mm....25%, 80%, 99 44/100%....just buy it. LOL.Nothing wrong with optical technology in general, but these guys sound like a bunch of clowns.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 05:44:47 pm
content: I've got a HHKB Lite 2 that's nearly 20 years old and still works fine. I only paid about $70 for it back then. I don't know if I'd buy one at today's prices. Considering I bought two at the time and the other is still in the box, probably not. It is hard to find a good small footprint keyboard at a decent price though.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 05:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on January 31, 2018, 05:44:47 pmIt's a usual membrane keyboard, not Topre switch, therefore lower price. You can buy such for even less than that.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 06:19:45 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on January 30, 2018, 06:52:30 pmThey re-invent that every decade. I think I have a bunch of hal-effect keyboard switches from the seventies somewhere. These don't suffer from dust which could form a problem for an optical system.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 06:21:57 pm
content: There's this, a bit unrelated (hall effect sensors + magnets):

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 06:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 31, 2018, 06:19:45 pmAnd may attract a pile of magnetic dust.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 06:39:43 pm
content: My IBM model M is still going strong after 20+ years of daily use.Regards, Dan.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 07:11:24 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 31, 2018, 06:19:45 pmAlso, IMO this is a very crap solution compared to optical switch. You need to place a magnet into each button somewhere (size and weight). You need a hall sensor under each button. And the worst, it would be very hard to make them in a way that actuation point would be consistent as both hall sensors and magnets are very loose in their parameters.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 09:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 31, 2018, 07:11:24 pmI was going to say that the hall effect keyboards were for high reliability rather than typist comfort. But then I consulted with Google and he told me these are being made into gaming keyboards. Now I understand the context of your post.Sent you you from my horrible Logitech G110: the only reasonably comfortable keyboard I could find last time my keyboard died.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 03:05:38 pm
content: As someone who liked the old Key Tronic rubber-dome keyboards (eg. KT2001), the Lenovo "Preferred PRO USB Keyboard" I currently use at work feels amazing, and is really cheap to boot.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 01:15:33 am
content: Quote from: andersm on February 02, 2018, 03:05:38 pmWe're actually just ordered one of these today as a test to see if we like it. The current keyboards we keep in stock are garbage and I wanted something just a little bit nicer. We pay $15 or $20 for the junk ones. One of our guys found this one for $30. Glad to see it get an endorsement.The old keytronics were nice too. Believe it or not, I have some piece of junk "Reveal" keyboard that may have the nicest rubber dome feel ever, save for my Topre. I think it's the same basic key/chassis as some of the Packard Bells that people rave about.Geez, how hard is it to make a decent keyboard? There's so much garbage out there.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 01:38:00 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on February 03, 2018, 01:15:33 amPeople have different definitions of garbage. I personally use Dell KB-212-B, and absolutely love them. And they are like $15 with no fancy switches.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 03:20:30 am
content: My "daily driver" is from 2003 or so, a cheap (silicone) rubber dome with low travel and an unusually soft (for this type of switch) actuation force, and has worked perfectly with the occasional cleaning. At a guess, it's probably done well over 10M actuations on some keys, but they all feel the same so there doesn't appear to have been any wear. I've noticed that those who wear out keyboards quickly also tend to be the ones who bang on the keys the hardest...

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 08:09:00 am
content: Here's a keyboard e-waste recyclers used to treat as "garbage".