Wave of future?  -OR- Waste of time? -OR- State's money grab? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:03:57 pm
content: California debuts ‘digital’ license plates. Here’s what they’ll cost you.BY TONY BIZJAK May 28, 2018 03:00 AMCalifornia’s dramatic new license plate is hitting the streets — a digital display board that allows changeable messages controlled by the driver or remotely by fleet managers....The new plates use the same computer technology as Kindle eBook readers, along with a wireless communication system....They come with their own computer chips and battery.Motorists who choose to buy the plate can register their vehicles electronically and eliminate the need to physically stick tags on their plates each year. They also may be able to display personal messages — if the DMV decides to allow that....Dealerships are expected to sell the plates for $699, not including installation costs. Users also must pay a monthly fee of about $7. The plates are not available through the DMV.Above quoted from The Sacramento Bee (news paper):http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/back-seat-driver/article211828814.htmlBy the way, in case you forgot, Sacramento is the State Capital city of California.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:47:50 pm
content: $699 up front and $7 a month to help the government track you? Seems reasonable enough to me.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:49:28 pm
content: It is not going to cost you anything if you don't buy one. It is a purely commercial enterprise, and all they need from CA is approval to operate them legally. If you want one - buy one. For fleet cars ability to update registration "sticker" remotely may be worth the price. For a private person - no way.They were also talking about being able to hide the plate number while the car is parked, but I'm not sure how this will play with illegally parked cars and the need to ticket them. So this feature may not stick around.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 01:17:53 am
content: Hackability makes for interesting possibilities*.*It's a government project, lowest bidder. Don't tell me you think it has "security".Tim

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 01:22:32 am
content: Ok, I actually went to the article. Now I see why people think it is a government program. They forgot to mention the name of the company that makes them. They are not related to the government at all. Those people were on one of the TWIT.tv podcasts. They have a site where you can pre-order them. EDIT: here is the sitehttps://www.reviverauto.com/rplate/and you can actually buy them already.Furthermore, this technology is already legal in a few states.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 02:07:56 am
content: Ah. Well, I still wouldn't expect they'd get very far without direct buy-in from the state. Someone's getting money, somehow or another, even if it isn't a direct contract from the DMV.Tim

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 02:11:23 am
content: They don't need any monetary buy-in, just approval. Juts like self-driving car people don't get anything from the state.An those plates, while being cool, have a whole lot of restrictions on what you can put on there. In part to prevent James Bond style licence plate changes or obscene things on license plates. Basically everything custom you want to put has to go through the approval process.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 02:27:39 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 29, 2018, 02:11:23 amIf you can't hack them easily (unlikely) then you can at the very least put your own e-paper display driver into the case. So it could be very useful for a people who want to fool road toll systems and parking inspectors, and perhaps other more serious criminal endeavors.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 02:29:12 am
content: Well, you can drive with stolen licence plates already. How is it any different? If you get caught, you are in a world of hurt. Whether it is worth the toll - you decide.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 02:37:46 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 29, 2018, 02:29:12 amStolen plates are easier to spot (since they have been reported stolen) with these you could effortlessly and perfectly clone other cars plates. You have to go out and physically change the old type of plates, these can be switched with the press of a button to whatever you want from the drivers seat.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 03:06:07 am
content: Quote from: apis on May 29, 2018, 02:37:46 amI did not mean stolen directly, but duplicated. In California it is a bit hard to make a good copy, since they actually have embossing. But in Texas licence plates are made out of plastic and have simple two color scheme. Super easy to duplicate. Just copy one from the same car model and color.I don't think hacking and changing the text would be a real problem, the penalty makes it not worth the benefits. We already have people driving with partially obscured plates, even though it is illegal.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 03:58:29 am
content: Around here anyway we are seeing more and more toll roads that electronically scan your license plates. I would expect within days of these hitting the streets some people would start to hack them so they can change their plate number as they approach the scanner and then change it back, or have it flash obscene messages at the touch of a button.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:10:09 am
content: When I first read about this, my mind got back to Star Trek with their holding cells on board. No bars but a force field. Another technology that is as useless as digital license plate - gaining nothing while costing more. In fact, it is worst than gaining nothing -- you actually lost functionality. Now you need constant power to hold the prisoner in the cell. Each time when they have power problem say by enemy attacks, the prisoner can get out of the cell. Where as, with just plain prison cell bars, it stays lock until the bars rust out.The digital plate is a technology-over-use as are the Star Trek holding cells. For registration purpose, fleet-cars can use the same set up as vehicle dealer-plates. Dealers don't need to buy a license for every show car. The can log the dealer plate and put it on any car they want to take out for a test or extended drive. If the logging must be centralized, easy enough to develop a Department of Motor Vehicle website such that the plate and VIN is logged each time when the plates are switched.With these digital plates, I can see that after a vehicle accident, flood, what not, to have a hunch of "unknown" cars driving around. A prank lover with some knowledge can easily drive around a parking lot with some device and in 15 minutes causes hundreds of cars to have blank plates. Even one without much knowledge can easily do the same after simple experimentation - then aim at the particular area of plate with a BB gun while driving around. May take a little longer but disabling/destroying hundreds of licence plate in a parking lot in less than an hour.Lots of disadvantages but hard to find a real advantage that cannot be had for much much lower cost.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:13:58 am
content: They are very useful for fleet and rental companies. Hertz alone has ~500k cars in the US spread across all states. And some cars registered in one state, but operated in others. Imagine how much it costs to apply registration stickers on all those cars?That's exactly hoe those plates are marketed. Some states have special plates for fleet cars in the old metal form, but not all.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:44:30 am
content: James Bond also had a car with changable number plates.In the country I live in it is also illegal to put stickers on a lisence plate or otherwize modify them.Weird people, those callifornians.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 07:51:42 am
content: But I bet you have to plaster your front widow with registration stickers. And that's much worse.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 08:08:24 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on May 28, 2018, 09:03:57 pmThe issue that the digital license plate tries to solve is in your laws. IDK why you would need a sticker for each year in an age, when it takes 10 seconds to request all the information about a car.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 08:11:45 am
content: It help to visually see the expired plate. Otherwise you would have to scan all plates, and that's not going to go so well.Now, the DMV would know what plates are expired, so they could provide this information along with registration address. But I'm sure there is some problem with that as well.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 04:33:15 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 29, 2018, 08:11:45 amIt seems to work well enough for Pennsylvania. No stickers, pay online, registration gets mailed to you still, just no sticker with it. Some police already have automatic plate readers in their cars. Its probably better they spend their time looking at the road, and not trying to look at the color and little 1cm tall numbers on the sticker of all the cars around then while they drive.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 04:38:28 pm
content: They have eliminated the yearly registration sticker on the plate in my state. Probably equipping all police cars with scanners costs more than the printing of the stickers, is what my cynical side says. At the same time, they now allow a multi-year renewal instead of once every year. No cost savings, 2 years is 2x a 1 year, but one less thing to deal with every year.At least it is a simple solution. Gotta love when the best thing they can come up with is a ridiculously expensive electronic license plate.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 06:16:43 pm
content: If it is possible to program it to show the finger, it might be worth it.Otherwise, my license plate number is 111IIl1 (Thanks XKCD).

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:16:58 am
content: In Montana if your vehicle is over 11 years old you can pay a little extra and get a permanent license plate and registration; no need to pay any more annual fees unless it changes owners. The theory is that the tax base for older vehicles reduces the annual tax portion to the point where it is cheaper to offer this, get the money up front and less administrative overhead.I find it amazing that a government agency can actually reduce any established bureaucracy.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:22:20 am
content: It would be great if they would do that here, but instead people voted for an initiative that made the annual licensing fee flat rate so it's cheaper to license expensive new cars, the cost of my license tabs actually went up with that arrangement. I've never had any interest in owning a car less than 11 years old anyway. Here you can get a permanent collector car plate for cars 25 years or older but then you're not allowed to use it for commuting, hauling cargo, etc.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:22:34 am
content: Wait until the Chinese clones show up on AliExpress... at 1/10th the cost.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 02:36:01 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 29, 2018, 07:51:42 amAt least in Western Australia, (not sure about the rest of Oz), we did away with yearly registration stickers some years ago.The Cops can access a database from their car to see if any given "number plate" is still valid, if it is on the correct car, if the car is stolen, & so on.The downside for owners is that if we need to budget to pay registration, we can't just look at the sticker to see when it runs out, so can be caught out when the letter arrives with the re-registration sheet.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 06:48:24 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on May 29, 2018, 08:11:45 amWhy would the plate expire? It has perishable materials in it, which go bad if you keep it too long out of the fridge?If you dont pay the taxes, or mandatory insurance, or the car doesnt pass mandatory inspection, it is 3 different reason this would happen, none of this has anything to do with the license plate.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 06:52:41 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on May 30, 2018, 06:48:24 amIn the US by "expire" people understand not paying a registration fee.Ans I'm sure there are better ways of doing absolutely everything. This electronic licence plate tries to address the issue while working within current laws and regulations. Maybe all states all of a sudden do something different and they will go out of business.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 07:36:53 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on May 30, 2018, 02:36:01 amSame for NSW.QuoteThere are police vehicles in NSW that have automatic plate readers that continually scan and look up plates. When something untoward is encountered, an alarm sounds and the officers can check what's up and take action. No eyes off the road until then.QuoteWe get letters about 4-6 weeks before expiry. One from the government, and one from the third party insurer.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 06:04:51 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on May 30, 2018, 06:48:24 am"The plate expired" is slang. In the US, you are required to register your car with your state. When you do that for the first time, after buying or otherwise taking possession of the car, you are issued a permanent* license plate. Registration is generally valid for one year, although many states allow you to register for longer periods. You are also issued some kind of license plate "tab," which is a little sticker that attaches to the corner of the plate and indicates when the registration expires. It is the expiration of the registration that is mean when someone says, "the plate expires."The registration tab is issued after you've paid the fee (sometimes a fixed fee, sometimes related to the value of the car) and in states where required, the car passes an emissions test. Some states don't use a license plate tab; instead an official sticker is attached to the inside front window. And it's also more confusing, because in some states, the window sticker only indicates that you passed the emissions test; the license plate tab indicates that you've paid the registration fee. New Jersey doesn't even have the plate tab, only the emissions sticker, so the only way Officer Friendly can know that you have not paid your registration fee is for him to pull you over for another infraction (such as speeding), and he'll ask you for your registration (an official card/paper with relevant details)."Plate expires" actually goes back decades, to a time when you were actually issued a new license plate every year or whatever period was chosen. The year of expiration was embossed into the plate, just like the number and the state and all that. The term remains, in the same way that we still refer to a "dial tone" when we want to make a phone call on a land line.*Permanent here means "for as long as you own the car." Once upon a time, it was common for the plate to literally be permanent with the vehicle; if you sold the car, the plate went with the car. This was discontinued for obvious reasons. However, many states allow you to transfer your license plate from your current car to a new car.