Bloody Microsoft!! (Windows-10) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 02:03:51 pm
content: New laptop for the Missus. Told them, (a MAJOR company here in Aust.), I wantNOTHINGto do withthis 'latest' "Windows-10'S' mode" which is very limited. It's stripped down, and only works with their'Microsoft-Edge' browser, and can only install 'apps' from the Microsoft 'Store'.I knowyou can select &install Win-10-Home. However, they lied, and said the so called 'Signature Edition' they showed, wasNOTlimited.CRAP!! NOTHING of the sort is installed, except the basic Win-10-S!! Which when lookingat the detailed 'Receipt' showed a component for... "In Store PC Service & Tune-Up" for$199!!Nothing has been done. Back to their Manager tomorrow!!

author: Simon_RL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 03:10:12 pm
content: @GlennSprigg there are a few sites around where you can pick up Windows and Office licenses for about AU$30. Have been using keys from this site for a few years and never had a problems with activation and updates so I am guessing they are legit.PM me if you want a link, I don't want to get in trouble for spamming so won't post a link here.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:04:54 pm
content: If you have something with a windows 7 pro key on it you’re not using try downloading and installing it on the machine from MS’ web site and using that. Usually works.I regularly go round with my phone camera at the local tip or company skip and lift the product keys off the cases Occasionally get a windows 10 pro as well

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:29:28 pm
content: This is my solution:https://lubuntu.meWorks perfectly. And no M$ tax.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:35:54 pm
content: If you did a 30 second research, you would know you can get out of it by doing a few clicks.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: Simon_RL on August 04, 2020, 03:10:12 pmThere is no free cheese. Instead of paying for fraudulently acquired software keys by using stolen credit card data or single key resold to multiple users or both, you can simply pirate it to begin with. Because your copy will be just about as legal. Not to say your key may be revoked afterwards. Good luck buying from dodgy sites thinking you are getting a real deal. You are supporting thieves, not IP owners. IMHO pirating is less evil than supporting thieves.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 05:03:13 pm
content: This is one reason I lift genuine keys off scrap machines.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 05:45:00 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 04, 2020, 04:54:04 pmMy understanding is that in the EU the courts ruled that when a system is being scrapped, the license key can be salvaged just like any other part of the system. Microsoft can't prohibit it. Since Microsoft doesn't geo-lock their licenses, they have no way to say that the key is only valid within the EU. Therefore, you can legally buy a license key that was salvaged in the EU and use it worldwide. I did this a few years ago for one of my systems and it's worked since with no problems (Win 10 Pro). At that time, there were pages of ebay listings for a key with instant delivery via email. I don't see as many now and many of the prices are much higher than in the past, but there are still a few really cheap ones.I have no connection with any sellers.Ed

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 06:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on August 04, 2020, 05:45:00 pmIt's wishful thinking those are recovered keys from scrapped systems. With win 10 there is no OEM licence sticker with a key to begin with FYI. Also you are not allowed to resell/reuse OEM keys on different hardware, only retail. Nor that you get any proof of key ownership anyway. If you use such keys on your company computers, and BSA or law enforcement finds out, you will be screwed.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 06:41:18 pm
content: Bloody Microsoft?I'd rather say bloody "insert name of the shop"!They charged for a nothing done, and 199$ for clicking a couple of buttons it's outrageous in any case.What has Microsoft to do with that? They sell different products for different targets.I'm not a MS apologist, there are many and very good reasons to criticize them (despite their undeniable improvements), but in this case I really don't see the point.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:18:24 pm
content: Two minutes of research away from the sales person would have saved you a lot of grief and money.Harvey Norman?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:40:10 pm
content: Another Windows 10 crying thread?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:42:19 pm
content: We'll need another sub forum soon. Call it the windows wambulance.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 04, 2020, 06:34:39 pmWho said anything about a sticker? If a system has a key that can be recovered, it can be resold. Of course, the seller might have to prove to the police that they aren't selling the same key over and over.QuoteYou'll have to take that up with the court in the EU. They decided that it can be resold. Neither Microsoft, nor the BSA, nor law enforcement has any say in the matter since the keys were legally purchased. All you'd need is an invoice. As you stated, there is no sticker any more (in most cases) so even if you bought the licenses from Microsoft, all you'd have is an invoice.Ed

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on August 04, 2020, 09:55:10 pmThat a key can be legally resold doesn't mean that MS can't revoke it. We were solving exactly that only a few weeks ago at work, with keys that were originally upgrades from retail versions of Windows 7. After upgrade Win 10 activated just fine, we have used it for years - but now when we wanted to reinstall Windows on new hardware after 8 years, no dice. The key was invalid, period.The problem is that Microsoft started tying certain types of keys (so called "digital licenses" as opposed to full retail copies) to hardware and you are allowed to transfer it to a new PConly once. The same with OEM keys, those you can't transfer at all.Calling support resulted only in being told that the licenses are invalid, despite still having Windows 7 DVDs and the stickers with the keys that went with them.So what you are saying is perhaps technically valid but good luck trying to enforce it if your Windows suddenly refuses to activate because you were sold either a key that has been used before or a key generated by some keygen (most likely the case). Most people don't have the kind of money and time needed to go sue Microsoft over a cost of a 200 euro license.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:15:52 pm
content: Fixed. Please don't keep putting extra line breaks in. It makes it harder to read. Resize your browser window, if you find it easier, but don't inflict it on everyone.Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 04, 2020, 02:03:51 pm

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on August 04, 2020, 10:15:52 pmI’ve asked him repeatedly to stop doing this, including explaining why, but it’s a lost cause. We’re stuck with his cuckoo line breaks, scare quotes, CAPS YELLING, and other bizarre “get off my lawn!” formatting...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on August 04, 2020, 09:55:10 pmAgain, wishful thinking. Licence is embedded into bios. There is no serial to recover.QuoteAnd EU court said that you can resell retail software. Not resell something that came with hardware like OEM OS separately.QuoteExcept they were not. If you did not properly obtain a valid licence, you can show your crappy invoices, cry as much as you want, but they will screw you without any lubricant.QuoteOn which they will laugh at. Since you purchased some dodgy key, not a valid licence. I looked at several such websites, and none of them even says youpurchase a licence. They say you purchase a key.Again, I'd rather pirate software all day long rather that bring my money into pockets of criminals. It's not only a copyright issue. It's a credit card an other types of fraud which cause real damage to both innocent people and IP owners. When licences are purchased by stolen credit cards, there are two options. Either card owner lost their money or there was a charge-back and then IP owner lost that money. It's not as simple a giving money back, there are some real monetary losses in the process.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:27:35 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on August 04, 2020, 10:15:52 pmIt'sNOTjust the"line breaks"!!Holy hell that's hard to do with the spell check and autocomplete fighting it.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 10:29:35 pm
content: I used to call it Windows 10 Scam, because the upgrade to regular Windows Home was extra cost. That upgrade is now free apparently, but there's no reverting. You should not have needed to pay any extra fee to the shop.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 07:30:36 am
content: Quote from: tooki on August 04, 2020, 10:23:03 pmQuote from: Mr. Scram on August 04, 2020, 10:27:35 pmI agree with both points, but there's no point whinging about it. We'll just have to add him to our ignore lists.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 08:02:06 am
content: Does "S Mode" stand for "Shit" ?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 08:04:42 am
content: Yes

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 10:07:04 am
content: Quote from: wraper on August 04, 2020, 10:24:45 pmhow do you know that? there are many other possible ways than what you've stated.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 11:12:42 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 05, 2020, 10:07:04 amI cannot tell if it's true for any particular transaction but most of those keys are obtained/sold by fraudulent means. It's the same as for cheap game keys where this shady business is much larger. It works as follows. These key websites are a sort of marketplace which does not ask any questions. Then come sellers with keys who are never asked where these keys came from or if they were already used. And it's a very easy way how to legalize fraudulently obtained money. If they buy physical goods or directly transfer money, it's quite easy to find a perpetrator. If they obtain keys and resell those somewhere, not so easy since it tremendously obfuscates a flow of money. In any case, most of those keys do not make you a legal user and IP owner does not get money you paid. You are simply pirating software, and on top of it paying for this.Examples:https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matthew-wilson/bethesda-is-deactivating-eso-accounts-due-to-fraudulent-keys/https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-26-it-looks-like-ubisoft-is-going-after-third-party-key-sellershttps://www.engadget.com/2019-10-30-csgo-fraud-loot-box-key-trades.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFLxoQkb5WzgxaGC-fUzDGXrfg5UoKAYBYDvjSDF7Nd0rpXVfrJgu9HAHBR1GisVZPZuZRsnCC17WXUZ2sq7prWnirftp2zKv6Qod_qrYKBPSBuks9TSWhWqaUb15bgUQioqcsr-Fm0oKmXOc8OF6TLHoLnD3mZwS7LtW7ANkkSl

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 12:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 04, 2020, 04:04:54 pmOh I am not the only one. This is cool.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 04, 2020, 04:35:54 pmDear 'wraper'... (O.P. here). I specificallyDID mentionin my original post that I'm well awarethatTHAToption is there, to get out of 'S' Mode!!, though it was not the point of discussion!!For the sake of others here too, I also DID do prior research of what I wanted, and I went into manydetails about that all, when I went there. (Why are some people so quick to attack?)SINCEthen, here's theUPDATE. They were apologetic about the miss-communication, that I thoughtit was set up as such, out of the box. They were expecting it back, to do the upgrade! which they havenow done, by not only getting it out of 'S' Mode, but setting it up with their 'Signature Edition', and alsoremoving all unnecessary crap & bloatware, to perform in the way that I wanted. All is FINE now!

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 04, 2020, 10:23:03 pmDear 'tooki'... I thought we were on 'relatively' friendly terms now?, at least such that youwould not be as abusive in your comment, me being 'cuckoo', 'yelling', 'bizarre', 'lost cause'I had explained my 'reasons' in the past. (Though I now feel like a dumb piece of shit).I forget about Phones used for reading, and feel that everyone has computer screens thatare now wide & hi-res, and info gets lost in very wide dialogs. (That 'I' find hard to read!).I feel also, that text like in these forums, is NOT like reading a 'proper' book, with perfectGrammar etc, but for quick reading/consumption of basic facts/data etc., so the use of suchcapitalized or bold key words are purely for quick reading emphasis... NOT YELLING etc...Sorry mate. I'll try not to be so offensive after this...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:16:23 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 12:58:09 pmAre you effing serious? I don't feel any pleasure by reading your posts in a corner of the screen.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 12:58:09 pmIt's best not to use any "hard" carriage returns at all except between paragraphs. Then let the user's browser flow the text according to how wide their window is.I agree with you that wide windows on a big monitor results in very long lines of text that are not so easy to read. But it is easy enough to drag the corner of your browser and make it exactly as wide as you like, if you are using a PC with a large monitor?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on August 07, 2020, 01:34:10 pmExactly, if i want reduced width, I will simply reduce the browser window width and move it to center of the screen.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:44:28 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 07, 2020, 01:16:23 pmWhat the hell is WRONG with you??... For a START, I only replied to YOU about your assumption of my'ignorance' about not researching how to get rid of Win-10 'S' Mode?? Which you were WRONG about,but never bothered to reply to THAT!! So you 'chose' to 'choose' to reply to my msg to 'tooki'What a big-headed asshole!PS... Notice how 'SilverSolder' spoke politely & respectfully !! Obviously out of your league

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 01:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 01:44:28 pmRelate this to yourself. You may wrote that message to tooki, but your manner of typing is bloody annoying for most people. And as it was not PM, anyone does see it.QuoteYou wrote about of possibility of installing Windows 10 Home, not about deactivating S mode. And it's really strange you'd give a dam about S mode if you knew it can be disabled in a few seconds, not to say paying 200 bucks.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 02:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 01:44:28 pmBTW speaking of polite, read your opening post. It's a manifestation if impolite posting etiquette.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 02:27:59 pm
content: Wow. You are so full of it, you can't see the error of your ways.You must be a Politician or something, with a knack of attempting to answer/excuseeverything by ignoring what was said, and deflecting it all in verbal TANGENTS!YES!... Everyone can see the responses, and reply to what ever they like, but YOUchose to ignore your original ignorance/abuse/belittling to deflect your big-headedness !!BY ALL MEANS please block me from your 'Ivory Tower' list.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 02:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 12:58:09 pmNot trying to be abusive, sorry if it came across that way. It’s just frustration because each of those formatting decisions alone is annoying, but all together is really irritating, as they reduce readability.And even if you didn’t intend for all-caps to be interpreted as yelling, thatistheir established meaning in digital communication. Remember also that highlighting things only works if used sparingly; if too much is highlighted, then nothing is.I’ve also explained to you the issue of screen size in the past, as others did just now. It’s not your job to try to fit to a screen, because there are literally infinite permutations of display sizes, font sizes, browsers, etc. so any choice you makewillbe wrong for some or most users. By using formatting correctly, namely, to provide structure, but not formatting, you allow the user’s device to format it appropriately.And yeah, if you don’t like excessively long lines (like most people), the answer is to resize your window. That’s why they’re resizable.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 03:39:00 pm
content: Written communication is very different from verbal. I remember once, back in the early days when the company first got email, I got pulled in for a conversation with the boss after I had written a few to-the-point emails. He said, "Your good personality doesn't come across in your emails. Please make sure it does, going forward." Best advice I ever had! -and I still fail to live up to it on occasion. We're not perfect.... hopefully, "good enough for Australia"?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:22:56 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 07, 2020, 02:27:59 pmMaybe you want to consider whether so many people are indeed full of it, or there may be more to what multiple people are saying.