Solder lead exposure quite scared :s - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 12:11:38 pm
content: Hi!i am harry, i am now 19 but i have a question...When i was 8 i joined an electronics club.We always were soldering there blowing up components and such (blowing not that much)I was there 2 full days a week.We always soldered alot with lead solder without extraction and such..And we had lunch two times a day and we never ever washed our handsNow i am really scared for lead and stuff and Alzheimers in the futureShould i be this scared?I now take very good precautions before and after solderingThanks so much to anyone who replies...Edit!! i went there for 5 years forgot that

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 12:40:52 pm
content: It's unlikely that you'll be in any real danger as long as you weren't eating the stuff. HOWEVER if your overly concerned.. You could always visitthe docs and ask to have some blood tests done, even if just to reassure you.I'm almost sure that when I was 8+ years old, that I was soldering various things all the time too, and like you I would then eat afterwards and notwashing my hands. I'm still soldering daily now with 60/40 and I can't honestly say that I wash my hands after every single session before eating.

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 12:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: orbiter on February 18, 2016, 12:40:52 pmThanks so much orbiter!!

author: AlessandroAU
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 12:59:52 pm
content: You won't absorb any lead through your lungs, the temperature of solder is not high enough to liberate lead vapour to any significant degree.You will absorb trace amounts if you don't wash your hands before eating. It would be foolish to try and estimate how much absorption might have happened.However, keep in mind that you the water you drink from the tap has probably passed through some lead soldered pipe and if you live in an older house there will be a certain degree of lead paint in the dust around the place.When you were a kid don't forget we were still foolishly pumping lead into the air because of leaded gasoline. I think these sources are much more significant than the small amount you absorbed when soldering.As always, we are not doctors, go and have a blood test done if you are really worried.However, given this was such a long time ago even IF you were exposed back then the levels in your blood would have decayed by now and it would be impossible to tell.

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: AlessandroAU on February 18, 2016, 12:59:52 pmThank you too you guys are amazing i am sure it will be fine now

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:10:57 pm
content: It might be worth taking care over the types of fluxes you allow yourself to be exposed to.If you were soldering with tin/lead solder, chances are you were using rosin flux at the same time. The effect of breathing this stuff is cumulative; it may not have much effect up to a point, but once the body has been exposed to its upper limit, any further exposure rapidly produces symptoms in the respiratory system... irritation, breathing difficulties and so on. The only "cure" at this point is to completely avoid exposure.This is why we use fume extraction; it's not the lead in the solder, but the flux vapours.

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 18, 2016, 01:10:57 pmOhYeah that was flux and we had no extraction indeed.... i have never had those issues, ill be very carefull with the fumes from now then!So it will never naturally be slowly removed from the body like cigarette smoke?Thanks

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:17:30 pm
content: It's a probability / susceptibility thing, similar to many other "poisons". With lead solder, it is quite low. I, and many people I still know, have spent 10s of 1000'sof hours (over 45+ years) using lead solder with no ventilation, and we're all fine (I have regular blood tests for other matters).BUT I personally know 2 people who have died of lead poisoning from solder (autopsy results). Both in the last ~5 yrs. Just unlucky genes.It doesn't hurt to take precautions, especially if you're young. .. and like others point out, there's much more lead in many other products !

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on February 18, 2016, 01:17:30 pmThanks! thanks to all of you i will stop worrying then! so happy everyone is so supportive

author: AlessandroAU
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on February 18, 2016, 01:17:30 pmI find that really remarkable that someone could die from lead exposure from soldering! They would have to be practically eating it for breakfast. There are warning signs when blood levels get dangerous high (fingers, nail and kidneys).

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:29:04 pm
content: Quote from: haduvokone on February 18, 2016, 01:16:10 pmYou're better off asking a doctor or doing some independent research I'm afraid. I'm just recalling a few fragments of information I remember from formal health & safety training in my first job.The context at the time was production line workers, for whom soldering wasn't just a hobby, but how they made a living. No longer being able to solder would put them out of a job, hence the emphasis on avoiding exposure early on.I'm sure the body does recover to some extent over time, but clearly it's a bigger deal if soldering is what you do all day, every day.

author: AlessandroAU
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 01:36:34 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on February 18, 2016, 01:29:04 pmRead about sensitisation, it not really directly toxicity. It just that after a certain level of exposure the body decides enough is enough and an allergic reaction occurs. The body never forgets and will from then on always react negatively to the stimuli that casued it.It can happen with the rosin from solder, epoxies, and solvents such as the acetone nail polish remover.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 02:22:21 pm
content: Lead is a heavy metal that accumulates in mammals (including humans). The article in Wikipedia says:QuoteBut, unless you have some sort of cognitive problems or learning disabilities or some other symptoms, you shouldn't worry yourself over it. There isn't anything you can do at this late date anyway. As others have suggested, it is easy enough to go and get tested specifically for lead.These Wikipedia articles are pretty good for a general overview of lead and lead toxicity..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Health_effectshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoningOf course, unless otherwise indicated, NONE of us are medical professionals (or legal professionals, either). And even if we were, it would be silly to take medical or legal advice in a public internet forum. If you are that concerned go to your medical provider and get tested.You will note that there is lots of discussion of exposure from inhaling dust from crumbling lead paint and very slight exposure from soldered joints in plumbing. But there is no mention that I could find of danger from electronic soldering. There is discussion of historic use of lead (and resulting poisoning) in the ancient Roman empire. You are probably more at risk from antique plumbing than from electronic soldering.

author: haduvokone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 03:36:51 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 18, 2016, 02:22:21 pmThanksi think i will get myself tested anyway

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 03:39:02 pm
content: For what it's worth, I soldered a lot as a kid and didn't wash my hands either. I've also been known to hold solder between my lips as a third hand. But worst of all, when I was little, I would sometimes squeeze lead weights onto my fishing line using my teeth.I don't think I'm cognitively impaired, but one has to wonder, I guess. Could I have been a contender?I also wonder if elemental lead is as dangerous as organic lead compounds like TEL. If you grew up in the 70s or earlier, you were exposed to a metric shit-ton of that stuff.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 06:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: haduvokone on February 18, 2016, 01:02:25 pmThe Roman empire went down due to lead pipes poising! You live in Rome dont you?http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/04/scienceshot-did-lead-poisoning-bring-down-ancient-rome

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 07:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: MT on February 18, 2016, 06:00:39 pmIt wasn't just the plumbing (the word which comes for latin for "lead"!).They used lead containers for condiments which rapidly absorbed the heavy metal so they could sprinkle it on their food and promptly ingest it.OTOH modern society where I live is going downhill in the same manner, but without the excuse of environmental lead poisoning.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 04:13:30 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 18, 2016, 07:23:49 pmNot just water pipes. From what I recalled reading, they purposely coat the inside of their copper cups with lead because they like the taste.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 09:57:13 pm
content: I had similar concerns a few years ago. I have been brought up in a electronics assembly family business and have been assembling boards with tester 44 lead solder since about 10 years old. Also I target shoot and have made hard cast lead bullets for many years. I had a full heavy metals test performed and the results came back negative for everything. The doctor explained to me that unless you are literally ingesting lead oxide there is very little fish of lead poisoning. The big concern is for people drinking from lead pipes and such. Constantly ingesting small but constant amounts of lead.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 10:50:45 pm
content: Quote from: calexanian on February 19, 2016, 09:57:13 pmAre you sure? Isn't one of the signs of cognitive problems randomly misswording your spells?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 11:01:05 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 18, 2016, 07:23:49 pmThe old name for Lead Acetate is "Sugar of Lead" because it tastes sweet. There's evidence that the Romans actually deliberately made it as a sweetener by boiling acid solutions in lead vessels.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 11:12:37 pm
content: I think I... what was I thinking?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 11:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: calexanian on February 19, 2016, 11:12:37 pmWhat did I walk into this forum for? Was I going to make a cup of Tea?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 11:23:22 pm
content: There are several different issues to consider:Acute lead toxicity - requires ingestion of relatively high amounts of lead over a short time period. Unlikely with solder unless you eat it.Cumulative lifetime lead exposure - It's an open question whether this contributes to Alzheimer's disease or other forms of cognitive decline later in life.Early childhood lead exposure - Also an open question if brief, low levels of lead exposure early in life contributes to Alzheimer's disease or other forms of cognitive decline later in life.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 08:44:46 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 18, 2016, 07:23:49 pmIndeed. IIRC boiling/reducing wine in lead-lined utensils formed nice sweet lead sulphate, which they ate.My house has lead pipes between the road and the internal stopcock. Last time I checked (in the 1980s) water drawn first thing in the morning had 49ug/l lead, which was very close to the legal limit at the time.Solution (ho ho): run the water for 1 minute before using it for cooking.QuoteWhile that may be true, people of our age havealwayssaid that! And probably always will.

author: stealthbanana
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 11:08:03 pm
content: I would not worry that much, as others have said, the flux is more of a problem, Those of us older lived through an age where some bright spark developed leaded fuel, so we had petrol engines belching the stuff out and we breathed it in.Very interesting life the the person who developed the lead based fuel additive, Thomas Midgley, Jr. also went on to develop the first CFC in use, so probably single handedly did more damage to the planet than any other single person.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 06:31:46 am
content: Blood tests will only show recent or ongoing lead exposure. And the action levels - at least here, are way too high. Especially considering that!Lead and other man made chemicals in the environment are a serious problem, which nobody is being honest about these days.So are endocrine disrupting chemicals.Here are two useful resources..http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=%22low+level+lead%22and the EHP journal..http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/tag/Lead/For people who handle soldered items, EDTA soap might be a good idea.. Ask an expert, which I am not.The definitive test for lead in things (painted surfaces, people, etc.) is done using "XRF" x-rays.. the devices return a numeric value of lead content in bones, walls, toys, or other objects...Thiols - may help the body shed all sorts of bad things.. especially heavy metals.A good thing to take might ben-acetylcysteine..Pubmed can give you a lot of info on health unfiltered by the BS machine of the increasingly horrid media.... if you want it.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 06:34:51 am
content: Lead exposure is predictably shown to impact health and IQ in an inverse relationship to exposure. Even at levels way way below what is claimed to be "safe".Quote from: stealthbanana on 2016-02-20, 18:08:03

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 06:41:11 am
content: Quote from: cdev on February 22, 2016, 06:34:51 amTell me about it. I grew up next to a Los Angeles Freeway in the 1960s/70s. School was regularly cancelled due to "smog alerts". Hmm, perhaps that explains a..... um, what was I saying?

author: BobbyK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 06:56:41 am
content: I too grew up in a city where we had smog alerts pretty much every other day during winter. I am almost 40 now, and no signs of lead poisoning (yet!). At the same time, I have been soldering too since childhood - I remembered nights where all the rosin fumes would give me almost a high - a really mellow one...I don't think lead poisoning is that common with hobbyists - I have yet to meet one where a link can be proven, but for production line workers that is a different issue. Back in the days those guys had vats and vats of molten lead solder all over the production floor, and serious health issues were not unheard of. The same went for people who worked with large printing presses apparently.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 07:23:08 am
content: Time after Time: Environmental Influences on the Aging Brainhttp://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/122-a238/

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 07:53:47 am
content: As others already said, I think the fumes of the flux are the problem. I'm almost in the same situation as the TO, and I sometimes have the problem of getting (minor) headaches when I solder around for too long (partly without ventilation)...

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 08:41:53 am
content: In the home environment (likely no fume extraction), you're far better off using lead solder than lead-free. The fluxes used in lead free solder are a lot more aggressive and more irritating to the respiratory system.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 05:38:18 pm
content: Can you point to some specific details to back up that idea please? Any chemicals, part numbers, COSHH data sheets and the like?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 05:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on February 19, 2016, 04:13:30 amIn fact, (modern) lead pipes aren't even a major source of lead poisoning in most areas, because after not too long, limescale deposits end up lining the pipe, so that the water you use wasn't actually in direct contact with the lead! (The tragedy in Flint was caused precisely because the new water source was very corrosive and dissolved away the protective limescale deposits, then the lead itself. Had they neutralized the water as they had been advised to, the limescale would have remained intact and the problem would not have occurred.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 01:35:39 pm
content: A couple of years ago I tried to find a good reason for lead free solder to exist but couldn't.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 01:47:43 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 18, 2016, 07:23:49 pmYou talking about fast food or Trump?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:18:24 pm
content: Quote from: StuUK on February 23, 2016, 01:47:43 pmMore like Bozo Bernie

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:23:24 pm
content: Quote from: StuUK on February 23, 2016, 01:47:43 pmPlease, no.Let this forum be a haven of peace and tranquility compared with the real world.Why should all engineers have a mistress? So they can tell the mistress they are with the wife, and tell the wife they are with the mistress - and then go and have a good time in their lab.

author: Bob F.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:35:51 pm
content: Quote from: stealthbanana on February 20, 2016, 11:08:03 pmHe also quite had an interesting death. Hoist (almost quite literally) by his own petard, he was bedridden by polio and strangled himself in a pulley and cable mechanism of his own devising intended to help people move him about in bed...Thank you QI: finally after all those hours watching I have found an outlet for one useless factoid!