New DSO for work - any opinions welcome - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 06:25:20 am
content: Hi Guys,I am going to be making a short list of DSO/MSOs for purchase at work. Basically I am comparing 4 channel 200Mhz models, and require serial and SPI triggering and decoding. Built in wavegen is a plus. MSO is a plus. Deep memory is a requirement.Current Keysight have specials on the 2000, 3000, 3000T and 4000 series for all feature unlocks, and I must say, they look great, especially that 12 inch screen on the 4000, but might not fit on my desk! I also think the 3000T looks pretty darn awesome. Is it worth it? Will a 2000 do?I have had a quick look around and have seen a little about the Tek, and saw Dave's review of the R&S. I am looking for a professional tool (or two), and figure I can budget for up to about AUD10K if I can make the business case, but anything I save on the scope, can probably go into a power supply or two. Anyone got any suggestions or advice?

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 07:35:01 am
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:20 amI have a Tek MDO3024 and I love it. It's taken me a bit of time to get used to the deep memory (I'm used to having what's on the screen, and that's it - the idea that there's a lot more resolution available just seems, well odd.).It does SPI decode really well. Helped me solve a SPI communication with a SD card problem just last week. I also use it regularly for Serial decode (9 bit multidrop bus).I'm starting to deal with more and more EMI/RFI issues so the inbuilt spectrum analyzer is really nice to have, especially since I got the 3Ghz option for free. I also have the MSO option but haven't needed more than 4 channels yet, so I can't vouch for it's ability.A couple of things everyone seems to say:1) MSO/decode in the scope makes no sense. I used to be of this camp, but after using a live decode in the tek to fix that SPI card problem, I'm now a convert to inbuilt logic analysis. It removes the whole 'capture', 'pause', 'decode' issue - it's now all immediate and on the tek screen. I still think that a USB/PCB based logic analyzer could be excellent, but the current 'capture, then decode' step for all of the Logic Analyzers I've tried are simply a pain.2) signal generation in the scope makes no sense. Ok, I kinda both agree and disagree. If I'm needing to generate a consistent waveform (say a 20Mhz square wave, etc.), I'd go for a standalone generator. But, if you need capture and replay, being able to do this in the scope makes a lot of sense.3) [some other brand] is better than Tek. I might be inclined to agree with some values of [some other brand], but not most of them. I'm seriously drooling over some of the high-end R&S scopes. Keysight might be just as good, but the way I think seems to have a personality conflict with the UI on most if not all keysight scopes (in other words: they might be excellent, but for whatever reason I don't like them).

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:24:48 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 06, 2016, 07:03:50 amAt the moment, you get the MSO for a DSO price for the Keysights. I agree that a LA can be more useful, but if they chuck it in, I won't argue. Out of interest, where do you believe the line between high and low end is with respect to the Tek range?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 11:20:04 am
content: Talk with your local distributors/offices to get loan units from the ranges you are interested in. There is no substitute for putting them to use and getting a feel for their application to your work.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 11:59:31 am
content: I'd definitely get a Lecroy Wavesurfer 3000 for evaluation when you have a budget like this.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 12:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:20 amThe 4000 screen is the exact same resolution as the 3000 and 2000, so no extra info or data is displayed.QuoteIf you have a tool budget then yeah, don't blow your wad on just the scope.For the Tek do you mean the MDO3000? The spectrum analyser is handy, but otherwise it's as slow a wet week. Not good as a daily use scope IMO. The Keysight (and others) are so much faster and user friendly.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 12:25:21 pm
content: Yes, I was talking about the MDO3000 series. I will definitely try and get a sample unit for the units of interest. How do you find the Keysight 2000 vs 3000 vs 3000T vs 4000?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 05:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 06, 2016, 12:19:09 pmX4000 is 800x600 12.1" vs x3000 800x480 8.5". I have a 7000 which is also 12.1", but has 1024x768 resolution and I find the display unnecessarily large for that resolution, 10" would be a sweet spot.The MDO3000 is also 800x480, 9" and has a slightly wide aspect ratio (ie, pixels aren't quite square).Difficult to know where to start with the MDO3000. Overall I like it but compared to using the x3000 it's like night and day. Little in the MDO3000 UI is obvious or consistent, and the screen gets far too cluttered with menus. The x3000 on the other hand is blindingly simple to use. The MDO3000 UI just seems sluggish in comparison to the x3000. Having said that the x3000 seems sluggish compared to a 7000.I really like the probes with the MDO3000, they're lightweight, only 3.9pF loading, but they'll only work with new Tek scopes as compensation is done inside the scope for these probes. The Keysight probes are pretty mediocre in comparison.The SA on the MDO3000 is a bit of a disappointment for me: unlike the MDO4000 you can't have the SA and scope operating at the same time, it's one or the other.I'll just mention liberation options. The base MDO3014 can be completely liberated with all options and bandwidth to 500MHz. There exist slightly more limited options for the x2000 and x3000 and it's more fiddly on an ongoing basis: there are also board differences between 200 & 350MHz, and 500 & 1000MHz. There are no currently published fiddles for the x3000T or x4000, or the MDO4000 for that matter. For the MSO liberation, you'll need an LA cable, P6316 for the MDO3000 and there are a number of HP/Agilent/Keysight part numbers for the x2000 and x3000 which often show up on eBay.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 07:02:31 pm
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 06, 2016, 06:25:20 amAU$10k is around US$7k, right? Any reason you only considered Keysight, Tek and R&S and not LeCroy?Keysight's DSOX2000A is a good low end scope but functionality-wise its very limited. The 3000 Series is good and the DSOX3kT is nice but you really pay over the odds for it. The DSOX4kA is essentially a DSOX3kT with a larger screen. All these scopes suffer from a small sample memory due to a limitation with Keysight's MegaZoom ASIC. The DSOX Series is pretty much designed around a high waveform update rate with everything else secondary. Basic stuff like VGA or network port are expensive options. We also had some excessive noise issues some of our DSOX4kA scopes. They are good scopes but especially the higher bandwidth models are excessively priced for what you get, and I really hope that Keysight will come out with a new design in the near future.As to Tek, well, unless you really need a scope with a built-in spectrum analyzer with mediocre specs forget about Tek. They haven't produced anything really remarkable (with the exception of the 70kSX maybe) since the days of analog scopes, their scopes are slow (sometimes pathetically so), pretty expensive, plus in my experience their support has taken a nose dive as well (but then it's a Danaher company, so what do you expect?). You'd be pretty much paying for the name only, and those days from what I see most of their customers are either in the edu segment or legacy customers who buy Tek just because they always did or have not much other choice.For R&S you'd be looking at the RTM2000 which is quite a step up from the low endHamegR&S 'Value Instruments' stuff which itself is already quite good. The RTM2000 is very nice scope, although a bit pricey (as are the options) and the waveform update rate is a bit on the low side. But it has a nice XGA screen with a good UI, and it's very silent. R&S support is also very good.Having said that, in that price range you should really have a look at the LeCroy WaveSurfer 3000 Series as well:http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavesurfer-3000-datasheet.pdfIt's in a similar performance class as the Keysight DSOX3kT but offers much larger sample memory (10M vs 4M), a larger screen with higher resolution, 1Mpts FFT, a really great UI (MAUI), plus a wide range of other advantages including some functions that usually are only found in higher class scopes. And it costs a lot less than the Keysight. In addition, they have very good support (all scopes are fully supported for 7 years after end of production, and are repaired for many years after that; they still repair 9300 Series scopes which ended in '98 or so).At the moment in that class the best bang for the buck is the WaveSurfer 3000. At the moment there's a promo which includes all options (except MSO), and they are pretty flexible re. price.I'd also strongly recommend to not just buy by recommendations but to try and get some loaner/demo scopes instead. $7k is a lot of money, and you want to make sure that this investment goes toward a tool you can work with, and you can only see this if trying out the scope in your typical scenarios.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 07:57:08 pm
content: Also be aware that in normal use cases the memory on a Keysight scope is divided by a factor 4 or more so a scope with 4Mpts has a useful depth of only 1Mpts.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 08:19:08 pm
content: Yeah, highly recommended getting demo units in and having a play first. I just fell in love with 12" screen because I can have the scope further back on the desk and still see it clearly. It's just like having a bigger screen TV, it depends a bit on your viewing distance if the 12" screen is worthwhile for your workspace.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: D3f1ant on February 06, 2016, 08:19:08 pmI have the 7000 sitting on top of the main monitor so it takes up no bench space: while it's fine there for viewing it's a bit of a reach for the controls. Here's a scopegasm for y'all:

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:41:37 pm
content: Nice to gear thats actually connected/used for a change

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 09:48:08 pm
content: HiWhat do you already have around the lab?Is this just for you or will it be shared? What are the "other guys" familiar with?Will this tie into an automation system? Is it already set up for a scope from a specific company?If it will be calibrated (I'd bet it will), are the calibration costs the same for all the scopes?Do you have custom probing requirements? (FET probes) Will they work with this scope?If it's going to act as a logic analyzer, are your boards already laid out for test pod hookups?Often it is the small details that swing the deal one way or the other.Bob

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 12:30:26 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on February 06, 2016, 09:48:08 pmI have my personal DS1054Z that i want to take home, we also have a DS1052E, and a Tek TDS2024 (our "good" scope" - yes, yes, i know). Our bandwidth requirements are not high, and these will be R&D scopes, so no automation or production testing. Calibration will be as per manufacturer recommended, we usually prototype with all test points included and fitted, then delete or DNF for production.If we purchase one high end scope, it will be common use, if we go for the 2000X series, I may be able to get a couple, but that is why I am calling for opinions, to see what the strong likes and dislikes are, and whether the diminishing returns are worth it in our environment, which is primarily embedded/digital domain and protection (power), but we do have power supplies, cap chargers, battery chargers, switchers, EMC immunity and emmisions compliance, oscillators, SR radios etc etc that sometimes throws a curve ball that needs debugging in the time domain.This is why the UART and SPI decoding/triggering are a requirement, and the MSO option would get plenty of use. We don't have an arb sig gen at all, so that could also fill a hole.Most of the time our needs are simple, but every so often, a problem presents itself where the more sophisticated machine would be invaluable, and if you don't have one, you won't know what you are missing. I work for a large multi national, so I don't think it unreasonable to demand a high quality and reasonably spec'd instrument (or two).

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 12:34:46 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 06, 2016, 07:02:31 pmIf I can locate the local rep, I will include the LeCroy in the list, for sure. The price is flexible, but I am sure I will get plenty of downward pressure (surprise surprise). I will need to make the business case.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 12:49:58 am
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 07, 2016, 12:30:26 amHiOk, so let me propose an "alternate plan". Get even more of the 1054Z's (or similar) and give everybody a scope that will do basic serial, SPI and I2C decoding. I'd bet that covers 80% of the real needs *and* having one at each location saves significant time (thus dollars thus the business case). Having them all the same makes swap around during cal or repair easier. Get one or two or three of the 2000's with the money that is left over. I don't know exactly what all the numbers are. I really don't need to, they are your business not mine.Yes, if the money is there and it gets a scope for everybody, get the 2000's and get one of something better.Simply put - availability AND usability is far better than fancy features on a scope that only Bob knows how to run and only Bob ever has on the bench. I also would consider the value of automating your R&D benches ....let the gear work when you are out drinking beer.Bob (the guy with the scope)

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 12:59:42 am
content: This is a valid option, but I would be lying if I didn't admit that part of me wants to have the kit that I only see at trade shows or being torn down on youtube.I do agree that having same/same is a valuable thing to have. So that begs the question, how many people here bought their scopes based on needs, and how many bought what they could afford, hoping the need would come and justify the purchase?A different answer might be true when buying for work with their money, or buying for one self, with your own money!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 01:08:26 am
content: Though question. Sometimes I buy equipment (usually cheap/for repair) just to play with it and see how useful it is. If it doesn't work the way I want I sell it again.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 04:24:03 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 06, 2016, 09:29:19 pmGreat picture! If you don't mind me asking, what do you use to stack the scopes on the left? I've been looking for solution to stack another scope but I don't have a shelf on my desk. Something like a monitor arm perhaps?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 05:31:36 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 06, 2016, 09:23:43 pm

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 07:38:53 am
content: Quote from: D3f1ant on February 06, 2016, 09:41:37 pmHa.. and they are all right side up

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 08:06:34 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on February 07, 2016, 04:24:03 amIndeed, having a VESA mount is the best feature of the MDO3000! Here it is in my setup with a quick release on an articulated gas spring monitor arm.http://youtu.be/IbPh7-DGkC8?t=50s

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 09:02:27 am
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 07, 2016, 12:59:42 amIt can be hard to hit a moving target.When I started working for myself, I bought a relatively inexpensive 500 MHz scope (Tek TDS754D), because the projects on which I was working required bandwidth above all else, and 500M was as much as I could reasonably afford. It wasn't really enough, but nevertheless it would do for go/no go checking before doing further tests in the customer's lab.After a while, I wanted to upgrade to a more modern scope... smaller, easier to transport, and without the constant worry that it was on its last legs and might die at just the wrong moment - so I bought an MSO-X3054A.By that time, I didn't really need the bandwidth any more, though. That scope spent most of its life decoding serial lines and probing op-amps and power supplies.More recently, I had the opportunity to upgrade to the MSO-X3104A at reasonable cost, right at the time when a new customer job threatened to require all the bandwidth I could possibly afford... so I did.That scope now spends most of its life with the 20M bandwidth limiter switched on.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 02:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 07, 2016, 08:06:34 amWow that's brilliant. I just might drill the Rigol to do that.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 02:41:54 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 07, 2016, 08:06:34 amVESA mount has been standard with all "suitcase"-style LeCroy scopes (WaveRunner, WaveSurfer) starting with the WaveSurfer 400 Series in 2004, with the exception of the WaveSurfer 3000 unfortunately (which doesn't have it, probably because of price and space constraints).I have a customer which has their WaveRunner MXi-B scopes on VESA mounts between benches so the scope can used in one or the other (or one bench can use two scopes if required). It's really a neat setup.It would be nice if more scopes had VESA mounts.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:02:03 pm
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 07, 2016, 12:59:42 amHiOk, I can answer that one at least.Here at home, I buy have been buying scopes since I was a kid (as in 14 years old). I have not stopped buying them since then. Need has less to do with it than "boy that's neat and better than what I have". It also helps a lot when they turn up for free or nearly free.At work, they are fairly rigid in production. Everybody gets almost the same gear and it all swaps around. When they decide to change it is a *massive* undertaking. Most of the lab techs are (if they have a scope) set up like production.Oddly enough, a lot of the engineers simply do not have a scope at all. There are a couple of shared units from various generations and manufacturers. Each of them is unique. Each of them has a "minder". All of them are a bit interesting to get running if you have never seen their menu system before. Yes, you can guess what happens in terms of probes with all sorts of stuff running around .... a very big mess. Even more so when you take a look at what the "real" probes bought new from the manufacturer cost on most of this.The upshot is that people spend more time debugging without a scope than they would if they could just grab *something* and figure out that the I2C died after that fine new code from Bob fired up ...Yes that's a business argument and not a technical approach to it.Bob (the guy who nuked that driver ...)

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 07, 2016, 12:59:42 amI pretty much buy on need for what I need now and what I'll most likely need in the near future, but I wouldn't spend any money on features just because there's a slim chance in hell that I might use it at some point in time. Fortunately by buying what I need I usually get so much extra functionality that I rarely need to worry about that.Obviously budget plays a part, but for me the main driver is the need. For private purchases, if I have more budget than what is required for buying something according to my needs then I will just save the rest if paying more doesn't give me a distinctive advantage. If the bugdet doesn't reach far enough, well, then I either look for cheaper ways of solving the problem or failing that I just save a bit longer until I can get the right tool.For business it's a bit different, as often you can't just wait and save more money if the budget is too small. In that case that means then back to the drawing board to see if there's a cheaper solution that is satisfactory, if increasing the budget is viable or if the task has to be halted until the financing issues are resolved (which is rare fortunately).I think buying based on the available budget only is unwise. The requirements are what should dictate what product are considered, the budget is only the limit how much one can spend. If the requirements can be satisfied for less money than the budget allows then there's no reason to spend more.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 07, 2016, 03:07:28 pmI smell a person who never heard of the term Coutlage. I own my firm, so I always laugh when a rep offers me a coutlage in order to make me blow through "the entire budget"

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 07, 2016, 03:07:28 pmSometimes budgets needs to be spend completely. I worked in a research environment for a while and December was always a buying frenzy to get rid of unspend money.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 03:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 07, 2016, 03:18:53 pmAye government departments can be like that. If they don't spend this years budget their next year's budget shrinks.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 04:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: Helix70 on February 07, 2016, 12:30:26 amBe aware that the 2000X series has a non-obvious limitation: "Serial trigger and decode application will not run simultaneously with digital channels". So, you can't do serial debugging through the MSO channels, or even with them on. If you wanted to debug a 4-wire SPI, you'd have to burn all your analog channels to do it. That quote is from the datasheet in the fine print but many people don't discover it until it's too late. The 2000X also doesn't have the autoprobe interface, which can be a problem if you have any special probing needs down the road.If you want Keysight, I would look at the 3000T series. I haven't found the 4Mpts(max) to be limiting. And it maintains UI responsiveness at any memory depth.For very long captures the signal is most often digital. So, once you verify signal integrity in the analog domain and you need more points than is offered by whatever scope, you could use a dedicated digital capture device like a Saleae. Then your capture depth is limited by your PC's memory, which can be Gpts.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 08:43:15 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on February 07, 2016, 04:34:16 pmHmm, we must be thinking of two different 2kX series.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 08:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 07, 2016, 08:43:15 pmThink it might be the Keysight X2000A series, not the Siglent 2000X series that is being referred to.That is a pretty crap restriction though.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 09:14:53 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 07, 2016, 08:57:51 pmSorry if I missed a context switch. I don't think I saw the OP refer to anything but the Keysight 2k scopes. And yeah, it is more properly the "MSO-X 2000A series" and not the 2000X as I called it.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 06:28:03 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 07, 2016, 03:18:53 pmThat is certainly true, but in these cases the original question is moot anyways as the amount to be spent is essentially mandated from the top. Same if the manufacturer is mandated (which thankfully is more rare).I was talking about situations where the choice is yours (or mine).Quote from: TAMHAN on February 07, 2016, 03:12:27 pmI know the game very well (I buy shitloads of T&M gear for work) but the last thing I'd tell a sales droid is how big my budget really is.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 11:22:12 am
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on February 07, 2016, 03:12:27 pmOk, I'll bite - what is "coutlage"?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 03:52:25 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 07, 2016, 08:06:34 amThat isnice!Mine don't have the VESA mounts, but damn if you aren't giving me ideas (L bracket w/ very aggressive double sided tape mounted to a monitor arm certainly come to mind).

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 11:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 08, 2016, 03:52:25 pmI'd be interested in anything anyone comes up with as a more generic solution for this that doesn't mean drilling holes in an expensive bit of TE. I've looked at quite a few options already myself, such as laptop mounts, but nothing reasonable seems forthcoming. I am sure there's a market for an adjustable universal VESA mount attachment for lunchbox scopes and other TE that would hold the underside with an adjustable slide out lip at the front, and something similar to clamp the sides and/or top.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 01:12:15 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 08, 2016, 11:31:44 pmI was thinking more along the lines of Velcro hook & loop tape, so only holes in the bracket (I'll experiment to see if it needs a lip or not). The user could potentially swap out gear, such as an SA as an added bonus.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 12:07:15 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 07, 2016, 08:57:51 pmI mean the Keysight.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 12:10:04 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on February 07, 2016, 04:34:16 pmThanks for the tip. Seems like there are just a few too many gotchas in the MSO-X2000 series. Pity, it is close in most respects, but I guess that is by design.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 02:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 09, 2016, 01:12:15 amI revisited this last night. I cut some unclad fibre glass PCB (I've had it in stock doing nothing for 15 years!) for the base an back along the whole length of the MSOX3000. These two pieces were joined with some 2mm thick 40mm/20mm aluminium corner stock along the length using a dozen M4 12mm screws with washers. The back was also screwed to a quick release vesa mount. I then added a lip to the front with a further length of 1.5mm thick 25mm/10mm aluminium corner stock. By luck if fits like a glove, but as is common with these kinds of projects when I do them, I forgot about the cable entries for the network and power, so had to hack appropriate openings in the back. Still, it works very well, definitely a keeper.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 05:08:13 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 16, 2016, 02:13:17 pmPerhaps a photo?

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 06:29:52 pm
content: I've bought expandable, extensible systems before in the expectation that I could spend some money now and more later as needs develop. These were hardware expansions like the HP16500 series - it will take up to 5 logic analyser or scope modules.I wouldn't do that again. By the time the need arose / budget was available, it was no longer state of the art and I was better served by a newer model.I've found the same goes for computers : if you buy more than you need, by the time you need it it will be obsolete and the replacement cheap.I'd say buy what you need and leave it as late as possible. Assume that payback is short : good equipment is worthwhile but on the basis of lack of frustration / trust in results rather than longevity or buying for the future.Secondhand is very worthwhile, especially for the better brands. Older equipment is a big saving if you don't need leading edge, and you'll feel happier if you have to move on to another model. The main disadvantages are bulk and power rather than performance.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 08:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: artag on February 16, 2016, 06:29:52 pmThat's not surprising. Modular instruments are not meant to be longer lasting or cheaper to upgrade years down the line. They are modular to allow a single instrument to fulfill different roles now. Such instruments are usually bought with the required modules right from the start.The same is true for pretty much any upgrade facility on modern instruments. Software options are usually bought together with the scope, it's pretty rare that someone buys them years later for an older scope. And bandwidth upgrades are only really interesting where a lower bandwidth scope plus the upgrade is cheaper than the higher bandwidth scope. Even for businesses a bandwidth upgrade years later is rarely attractive, and even less so for home users.QuoteI'd say but what you need now and what you very likely need in the near future, but don't spend money for options and functions you're unlikely to use now or later.QuoteI agree, except I'd say that used equipment is an even bigger saving if you do need leading edge. Depreciation with high end gear is ridiculous, and if you're not under hurry and have some patience then there often are incredible deals to be found on the 2nd hand market.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 09:24:06 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 16, 2016, 05:08:13 pmWhat I have discovered is that you need to have the primary VESA mount primarily vertical. Trying to use it horizontal on a universal mount I found is restrictive in terms of movement.This is a quick release on an ariticulated gas spring arm.Now, no sniggering at the back.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 10:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 16, 2016, 09:24:06 pmIt wouldn't work in my situation, but thanks for the tip about mounting the arm horizontally.You made something that works for what you need, and appears it will do so very well.All-in, that's a very nice setup IMHO.BTW, I'm not seeing a 2nd VESA mount on that arm. So how did you extend it to fit the Tek MDO on top?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 11:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 16, 2016, 10:14:08 pmSingle clamp pole, two articulated gas spring arms about 8" above each other on the pole. The gas arms give you about 18" vertical movement, you can have the scopes on top of each other or side by side, or even both off the bench altogether. Very versatile.Edit: here you go:http://www.amazon.co.uk/GSA12D-PS-Spring-Mount-Monitor-Stand/dp/B00W5NGZ54/ref=sr_1_40?ie=UTF8&qid=1455663743&sr=8-40&keywords=dual+monitor+arms

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2016, 11:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 16, 2016, 11:00:48 pmI didn't see a second arm, so presumed you didn't use one.So in the words of Homer Simpson,DOH!