Beware buying stuff from US electronics store! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:11:07 am
content: You could be reported for being a terrorist!http://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-SuspiciousActivity/Electronic_Stores.pdfAnd in hobby shops too:http://info.publicintelligence.net/FBI-SuspiciousActivity/Hobby_Shops.pdfDave.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:21:39 am
content: Just clicking on the links you provided will add you to some list.

author: ColdSteel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:38:36 am
content: Expected. Same goes for Units of Monetary Wealth et el; everything related to wealth will be monitored, traced and controlled (incl. consumer spending). Especially if somebody shows an interest in "the physical world around them" (i.e. def. Science).That's the beauty of Legalize, it's open to interpretation. I can only assume you were already added to some kind of black list many years ago, back in the Echelon days.Careful your actions are not skewed to be Seditious, both Australia and U.S.A. have Sedition Laws.It's expected TPTB would monitor electronic sales amongst other conjectured once-perceived-innocent-actions to safeguard us from 'Terrorists'.Dave, even in one of your Youtube vids you had conversed of a Texas Instrument releasing a Microprocessor subliminally aimed at competing with Arduino (something or rather), during this video you did express 'Hackers' (even though I understood the context), and we all know how a horrid noun like 'hacker' is worthy of Judge Dredd.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 10:16:16 am
content: LoL...Alexander.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 10:36:33 am
content: There is also a look-out at Airports and other places for people who wear a particular type of cheap Casio digital watch , believe it or not! and probably people who buy them.......

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 12:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 04, 2012, 09:21:39 amAwesome!Dave.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 12:29:55 pm
content: And did you notice that Arduino people are in real trouble?QuoteQuote

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 01:37:55 pm
content: "of the activities, taken individually,could be innocent and must be examined bylaw enforcement professionals in a largercontext to determine whether there is a basisto investigate,after cleaning up the mess fromfirst having shot the person or persons."

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 02:29:18 pm
content: It said something about traveling a long way for electronics. I wonder how far you should travel for electronics?Not counting Maplin, my local electronics shop, Bardwell's, is about 13 miles away. I'm pretty sure I went in there with a list once.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
content: Unfortunately or otherwise, this is exactly how law enforcement works, and exactly the sort of thing that (at least occasionally) catches terrorists before they blow shit up, and not after.Also, while no single one of these things really means much of anything, you have to admit that somebody matching up with, say, half of them is likely to be a problem, and prevention in this sphere is all about recognizing patterns.Personally, if I work in a Radio Shack and a guy comes in rambling about encryption, the government and conspiracy, is missing three fingers, smells of acetone, trys to chat me up about how to wire something into to a cell phone speaker and then buys a dozen prepaid phones of the same type using his "mother-in-laws" credit card, I don't know about you, but *I'm* dropping a dime on his ass. I've talked to enough BATF agents about squirrelly people buying guns that a chat with the FBI would not be much of a change of pace.The question is what do they DO with the information?

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 05:07:38 pm
content: This just sounds like a fun day of shopping to me!

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 05:12:24 pm
content: Hopefully they don't see me with mustache one day buying online, and without it the next time I buy stuff at Mouser !

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 05:35:46 pm
content: Things are spiraling out of control in the USA with the DHS and TSA. This isn't the first time I have seen a guide like that. There is also one being handed out to the military that tells them things to look for in everyday citizens.http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2012/10/Radicalization-FINAL090911.pdfThe information is sent to fusion centers, places operated by the DHS that stores all the data and supposedly processes it somehow. There are now 70 fusion centers in the USA. They say things like "watch for people paying cash, they are using cash because they don't want to leave a paper trail" . To add more fuel to the fire check out the video they are starting to show to people.They expect people to watch other people and report it if you think anything is suspicious , examples in video are woman watching a guy take picture with his phone ?Argh, if I didn't know better I would think I had time warped to the USSR in the 1950's.The whole thing is ridiculous.If terrorist wanted to do damage and they are such a threat there are tons of easier targets they can do more damage to than airplanes.Yes, typing that line probably put me on the list, just waiting for the SS, err dhs to come knocking on my door.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 06:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: DavidDLC on October 04, 2012, 05:12:24 pmalsways unplug your monitor when buying online. they can see you !

author: almoehi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 06:18:19 pm
content: Spying at your neighbour all the time. Isn't that exactly what those people doing right now with us, told us not so long ago, is going going on in the evil eastern part of the world? Welcome communism!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 06:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 04, 2012, 06:08:21 pmWell, start with your webcamhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camfecting

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 07:33:41 pm
content: If your on Facebook you already gave them everything. That the first thing they check. And Facebook tracks everything you do online, and probably more, even when you are not logged in.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 08:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fluxed Matter on October 04, 2012, 07:33:41 pmI am not on Facebook. And I am waiting for the first such pamphlets where THE government declares that not being on Facebook is suspicious behaviour.

author: FJV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 08:47:34 pm
content: Seems like the US is going through another McCarthyism phase.One wonders why they feel they haven't had enough of "red scares" to last them forever.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 04, 2012, 08:10:36 pmThis is already becoming an issue in human resources and employment circles:http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/And, frankly, what corps do with this shit scares me more than what the government does with it.From what I am seeing and hearing, the government gathers a lot of information but they have so much intel to sort through (a traditional American strength from an intelligence standpoint) and so many problems with analyzing it and so few resources to go run things down with (traditional weaknesses) that they don't bother with bullshit stuff. Very few doors actually ever get knocked on.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:34:56 pm
content: I bought an Atmel chip from Digikey earlier this year and got grilled about it as it was on some list of restricted devices. Had to sign a form basically saying I was using it for good, not evil before they'd release the order!

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: bullet308 on October 04, 2012, 09:28:55 pmI must be one of those suspicious people then. Can't see myself getting a facebook account any time soon.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 09:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on October 04, 2012, 09:34:56 pmGiven the fact that the Atmel chip in question was no-doubt not made in the US, I wonder just what it was they think they were accomplishing there?Almost as stupid as when they classified encryption as a munition...what next, algebra?

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 10:28:46 pm
content: Another one:QuoteThe "information " was the website of the customer we were making a custom audio product for!

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 11:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: almoehi on October 04, 2012, 06:18:19 pmAh.-. the good old DDR .. They are still fighting (at least here) if the old cold war ear inofrmant-list's shoudl be opened to public or not. Apparently some important people have been on those, since those have been kept secrect all this time.

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 11:11:14 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on October 04, 2012, 09:36:28 pmGuess we are both suspicious because I not getting one either

author: IvoS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2012, 11:56:29 pm
content: Me neither, I hate Facebook!

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 01:17:39 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on October 04, 2012, 09:34:56 pmI had a similar issue (but not ordering Atmel chips). They refused to process my order until I sent a scan of my drivers licence!

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 02:57:55 am
content: You know, if "they" conduct completely random searches/etc at airports, everyone thinks them silly and cruel (if that randomness happens to intersect assorted minority groups like the disabled.) If they look for "suspicious" clues and behavior, they get accused of racial profiling, discrimination, and thug-like behavior. It's a hard job to do well, and impossible to keep everyone happy. Whether you like it or not, being an electronics hobbyist really does mean that you are statistically more likely to build an electronic bomb timer. And those lists didn't seem all that unreasonable in terms of defining "suspicious" behavior, either. (Aside from both "unusual interest" and "no interest" about certain topics both being suspicious.)If you're willing to let it affect your behavior, that's your problem. Don't forget that it'd probably be much more dangerous to piss off your neighbor by trimming his tree that overhangs your yard, so that he calls an "anonymous tip" into some agency."MAKE like no one is watching."

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 03:38:35 am
content: I don't think a bomb timer is the worry here. You can buy an alarm clock at wal-mart, and it's easy to rig a cellphone to detonate an explosive when it gets a call, that's how many AEDs work.The lists are not reasonable. I live in a city and if you asked me whether I think it most important that we be able to travel without being treated like we're potential terrorists or whether I value most feeling safe, I can tell you in a heartbeat I worry more driving home than I worry about a bomb going off. I worry way more about the potential of having fucking drones circling my house 24/7 than I worry about being in a car wreck - and I'm a very cautious driver. The TSA is not reasonable. Asking law abiding citizens in public places for their ID hundreds of miles inland from international borders is not reasonable. Fortunately I can avoid the TSA mess by simply not flying, which I do, but that doesn't mean I tolerate it glibly.I can check my mirror at lights to make sure no one is about to rear end me. But I have no way of knowing what lists I am on, or what behavior might make me "suspicious" to some overzealous witch hunter. Governments are supposed to govern at the pleasure of the people, not through cloak and dagger and the barrel of a gun.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 03:40:31 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 04, 2012, 09:11:07 amHey Dave, I've never done things by halves....Here's what got me on the watchlists:$5,000 DIY Cruise MissileDespite this, I managed to sneak in and out of the USA back in 2003, right under their noses. US "intelligence".And if you think the NZ governments dirty-dealing with respect to Kim Dotcom is new -- well I can report, from first-hand experience, that it's not!An NZ "current affairs" programme did a piece on my activities (almost a decade ago now):And, since I've posted this to your forums, you are *NOW* on a watchlist for sure

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 04:34:37 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on October 05, 2012, 03:40:31 amI'm starting to lose count!Is there a prize when you reach a certain number of lists?Do you tick "yes" to those silly US export questionnaires you get hit with at Digikey et.alWhen is the book coming out BTW?Dave.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 04:51:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 05, 2012, 04:34:37 amWhen I buy from Digikey, there's no option but to give them the info. No info = no order release.

author: HardBoot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 06:02:18 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 04, 2012, 12:29:55 pmGood thing I buy all my parts from Asia... I've bought lots of parts without knowing what to do with them.Having a wide selection of stuff to fiddle with is fun, and you don't have to wait ages to get things you need for something.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 06:40:02 am
content: Quote from: RCMR on October 05, 2012, 03:40:31 amHmm.. Should we watch those videos too? Or would it be to suspicious?

author: Alana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 07:07:56 am
content: USA added to my list of countries "do not go without working flying saucer for quick and quiet evacuation" ;-)And for real, as someone mentioned there is way too much data to be processed and because of that - statistically we are quite safe, even if we live or would go to the USA.But it's still crazy, especially that this kind of change in USA was described in several sci-fi stories I've read as a child.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 08:18:44 am
content: Quote from: Alana on October 05, 2012, 07:07:56 amAnd it's looking to be a case of "you ain't seen nothing yet".Scary.Dave.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 08:37:37 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on October 05, 2012, 04:51:33 amI really don't understand why people moan about this - yes it's stupid, but if you object, just make something up.It's way better than Mouser's system, which can delay orders by a day or two if you happen to order something dangerous like an Xbee module.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2012, 08:54:23 am
content: I usually just put something simple for the parts use. Sometimes I use "various retail customers" for the end user part.Most of the time it's not a big hassle, just annoying. Having the order delayed due to a chip that could be used in an encryption application is what ticks me off. There's no prior warning and the time difference means it can add another day or two to an order we needed ASAP.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 11:16:21 am
content: Well, I needed an Amphenol connector about half a year ago and ordered it in the USA (as it was much less expensive there). They shortly answered me that they need a letter by me for customs where I give my data and describe what I want to do with the connector.Well, it was a Mil-Spec one, but what the fuck....it's a connector not a bomb.US regulations are strange. You can buy a gun without bigger efforts, but you are considered a terrorist if you order the wrong solder-wire...just a reason for me to stay away from / out of the US as much as possible (sorry to you US folks around here).....and now I'll watch the Cruise Missile DIY...Thanks for that one

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 11:54:36 am
content: You can buy all kinds of guns, but don't think that doesn't put you on some lists. You don't think the spooks snoop the online gun forums and secessionist groups? Look what happened to Randy Weaver - just for being a bigoted dickhead who wanted to be left alone by society.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 11:54:58 am
content: The lists are OK. All of that is actually suspicious. I just hope clueless newbies don't get called terrorists. (an I hope no one gets really paranoid, questioning everyone).

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 12:55:34 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 06, 2012, 11:54:36 amwell, and you have quite a big lobby that supports "your rights" in terms of guns.....If you get in trouble because you ordered quite some amounts of electronic components and they watch you because you're suspicious of building bombs, I am pretty sure nearly everybody will applause if they arrest you.Some times it's ridiculous. You are also having lots of trouble if you are a photographer, as this is considered to be suspicious, too.I remember some years ago when tripods weren't allowed anymore in railwaystations and so on. Then taking photos in general was getting forbidden there (can ask for a permission to shoot.....)....well, and it's not about being on a list: The problem is more that you are guilty as they think you're suspicious. There was a time when you were not guilty until is was proven otherwise. Now it is turned around. You are guilty until it is approved that you're not....with all its charming consequences.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 02:23:25 pm
content: I repeat:Quote from: bullet308 on October 04, 2012, 02:46:28 pmIs this a potential problem? Yes. Is this a problem that is actually manifesting itself in any concrete way at this time? Not that I can see...

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 04:44:58 pm
content: I really did get snooped on at one time. My workshop was 150 meters from the perimeter of a large RAF base (Marham Norfolk) the phone was tapped, in order to do this all calls are automatically routed through an exchange in London. They also routed the calls in Northern Ireland through the same place, this all took place during the early 80's when there was trouble with the IRA, I used to get so many cross connections from Ulster that it was hilarious, after a while I got pissed of with this so I would make random calls to eastern Europe embassies and when the phone was answered I would say something cryptic like the "Vicar flies at dawn" or some other gibberish, the spooks must have had fun trying to decipher it. After a while the snooping stopped they must have caught on and realized that I was no terrorist or spy.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 06:26:28 pm
content: Quote from: bullet308 on October 06, 2012, 02:23:25 pmYou know one typical way how accidents in safety critical systems (flying, trains, chemical plants, etc.) happen? All these systems have multiple safety systems in place. Each safety system alone is sufficient to prevent disaster. But still, at one point in time all safety systems fail and an accident happens.Analysis of such disasters often show a particular pattern. Safety systems degraded over time, because "it still works", even if a particular safety procedure is not followed, people got lazy, adapt some bad behavior, rules were ignored. Because in the end it still works out, and who needs those pesky safety systems anyhow? Until that one day when the last safety system also breaks down and the thing goes kaboom.And that is why every safety system is important. You never know if it happens to be the last one. "It works", and "there is no problem until now" does not cut it. In case of the USA one can even argue that the last few safety systems in place are already razor thin, and did occasionally break down. Or how do you explain torture flights to helpful places in the middle east? That there is still one safety system in place that protects you personally (you probably have the right race), does not mean much. Tomorrow it might no longer protect you.

author: bullet308
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2012, 08:45:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 06, 2012, 06:26:28 pmUnderstood and agreed. There are risks associated with having such a system in place, much as there is with not having one. What usually happens is that somebody gets stupid with their shiny new toy and uses it in some way they clearly are not supposed to and then they get it taken away from them. We went through a round of that in the 1970s, you might recall, after abuses in the Cold War '60s and Nixonian early '70s, resulting in restrictions that gravely complicated how the intelligence community responded to terrorist threats entering the early 2000s (including you-know-what). Its best to keep in mind that the pendulum governing how much free reign the intelligence community gets to play with has a funny way of biting us in the ass, no matter which end of its swing it is at.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2012, 01:48:38 am
content: Dear EEVBees:--First it was DHS feeling up grandmothers from Minnesota to make sure certain groups did not feel slighted, then they released a memo saying to watch out for those veterans, next will be a BOLO for Boy Scouts. Meanwhile if anymore of our Ambassadors are slaughtered, the President stands ready with more apologies."Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."George Bernard Shaw 1856 - 1950Best RegardsClear Ether