should i use this multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 08:46:57 am
content: Hi, I have purchased an old Russian multimeter on the flea market today, it came new in an metal casing and some old documents. While searching about it on the web I found this website :http://zapadpribor.com/en/43101/The model I have is a bit different than that one and dates from 1990. When I opened it I noticed that some components are dated 1989 but not newer than 1990.This is the picture of the multimeter I have:I bought it for cheap, up till now I had some Chinese kung fu digital multi meter that barely kept steady when measuring. I thought since this is analogue it would be more precise and a much better choice than the current one.How good is this multi meter and should I start using this one until I get an good digital one? And also, what are all the functions it can do? I can not read Russian, I can only guess what does it say

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:04:46 am
content: A half decent digital meter is $50 or less, just get one of those.This analog one is good for novelty value these days.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:07:23 am
content: Wow, that is a nice looking meter. If it seems to work, why not use it? It seems to also measure capacitors! Sorry I don't read Russian neither. If you know someone with a good multimeter, just do some checks of readings against his/hers and if it is good, use it!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:16:48 am
content: Quote from: stojke on July 10, 2015, 08:46:57 amWelcome to the forum.Hell yes, you should see what I started with more than 40 years ago.Use Google translate to decypher the labeling and then re-label.Check readings against your other meter or one that can be trusted as Lightages says.EDITTop right terminal needs ringing in RED, it appears to be the positive terminal.Confirm with a battery cell.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:21:14 am
content: If it's all you have then use it. Learn what it is and isn't good for. Understand that like any other measurement device it will affect the circuit, moreso than a modern digital meter.Having said that, there are plenty of times an analogue meter has advantages. No cursing the battery light coming on. No cursing that you've flattened another battery leaving it on. Great for measuring DC when it's not very stable.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:25:37 am
content: could you scan and post the paperwork for others later ?.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:28:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 10, 2015, 09:04:46 amI know, I watch EEVBlog videos a lotCurrently I can not invest that much into an multi meter so I took this chance of buying an older analogue one for the time being.Quote from: Lightages on July 10, 2015, 09:07:23 amThanks for the reply, I tried to measure some voltages, and from what I can read off the analogue scale it measures 5.26V (DT9208A digital multimater as reference) as 8.1V. Here are a few images:I have used an screwdriver to set the pointer to 0. Is the multi meter out of focus or am I reading the scale wrongly? The scale is set to 10V range.Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2015, 09:16:48 amAs I replied to Lightages I have tried the unimeter with an reference voltage from an power supply using an digital multimeter from the local service I do practice at. The Russian multimeter is either showing wrong voltage or I didn't read it correctlyI can understand some words because I also write Cyrillic (Serbian), but some words are unclear. I will try to translate it with some OCR software.Quote from: Deathwish on July 10, 2015, 09:25:37 amyes of courseQuote from: KJDS on July 10, 2015, 09:21:14 amYes, I want to learn that as well along side using it as an more precise multimeter than the one I already have ($3 cheap-o-master).

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:32:16 am
content: Analog meters tend to have lower impedance which means they can load the circuit they are measuring and affect the accuracy of the reading. They are cool though so absolutely use it if you enjoy it, but know its limitations.Also get yourself a proper digital meter.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:36:45 am
content: From what I can see of the probe leads I would advise against using it at this stage on mains voltages, low voltage stuff should be fine but please be careful, it sounds like you are new so maybe a better set of leads would be a good addition.Nice meter by the way, in analogue I only have a mains powered Heathkit valve meter, got it from our local university and may donate it to someone that likes the older style meters.Good Luck.Muttley

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:43:17 am
content: That looks like a proper FET meter, on/off switch and all, which absolutely *can* have an input impedance as high as - or higher than - a modern DMM. However your test suggests it is in disrepair, or maybe the (any?) battery is low.

author: kerrsmith
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:45:39 am
content: I often use my cheap £4.00 Chinese multimeter and it works perfectly well. If you don't need high accuracy to four decimal places and are only working on low voltages (which I do) then this cheapy meter is fine. I have built loads of things using it such as multiple radios, various audio amps, a simple signal generator and loads of Arduino projects.I always think I will get a better one at some point (it would look good next to my Rigol scope and Siglent signal generator) but then think I would rather spend my money on more components and other interesting things I see online.For me the cheap meter works great (the leads were not good and did break but Ebay got me new higher quality ones).I am sure one day I will get a better one but for now I am happy with this and don't want to spend money on something which will do the same thing just for the sake of it. It does all I need - measures voltages and current pretty accurately, allows me to match transistors using its tester and measures resistance and continuity.Basically, use this meter and if it works for you stick with it, if not get a better one - you might be surprised just what you can do with it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:55:37 am
content: Looked at your pics and you are reading it wrong.Top red scale. small red numbers (1-10. 10V range) reading very close to 8.25, so near enough depending on how accurately you zero'ed it.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 10:26:06 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on July 10, 2015, 09:43:17 amIsn't battery only for resistance? Also yeah, I tried installing batteries. It is always ~15% off than the value should be. The scale adjustment only goes so far, once it reaches the limit it goes the opposite direction.When I set the button V,mAx2 the scale is lowered by 2x making the values more realistic than 8.1V.Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2015, 09:55:37 amAnd you read my post wrongI wrote it measures 8.1V instead of reference 5.26V.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 10:36:50 am
content: Yes I did, sorry.Seems like some adjustments might be needed.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 10:40:26 am
content: Quote from: stojke on July 10, 2015, 09:28:12 amIn that case, no problem, use it, it looks like a nice analog meter.You probably don't reallyneeda digital meter, it's just much more convenient and accurate.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 10:42:28 am
content: Quote from: stojke on July 10, 2015, 10:26:06 amYeah something is wrong there, more than just a zero cal adjust.Just noticed it has a range doubler switch, very nice!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 01:43:25 pm
content: Old vacuum-tube voltmeters and newer FET-input analog voltmeters often have a resistor in the DC probe, near the tip.This allows probing sensitive spots in audio or RF equipment without capacitive loading.Typical value is 1.0 megohm, to make a total input resistance of 11 megohm with the input divider inside the meter box.This useful feature rarely appears on digital instruments.If you replace the probes, be sure to check for such a resistor before discarding the positive probe.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 03:12:01 pm
content: Hi, I have taken the multi meter to an old electrician here. As he says "It lies"He suggested me to not bother fixing it.Can any one guess why is it adding ~15-20% more to the value? Also I checked, it doesn't measure resistance at all, the pointer doesn't move.Thanks for the nice replies guys.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 04:57:43 pm
content: clean the contacts on the switch, if thats not it, probobly a resistor drifted/burned an a ratio divider is wrong, assuming the input transistors are biased correctly.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 05:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on July 10, 2015, 04:57:43 pmIf the unit was designed to use a series resistor in the probe (see my last post), omitting it would cause the unit to read about 10% high (assuming 1 megohm in the probe and 10 megohm input divider).

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:19:59 pm
content: Oh I see, well, this is what's inside of the case:The entire construction is easily removed, and there doesn't seem to be much inside of it, along side some logic circuits. That is that freaky radiator like wire that is all around from the inputPretty interesting that it has all those markings and stamps. Its construction looks like something from 1960s or 70s, yet it is marked 1990.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:22:23 pm
content: Is it a fake replica? Damn...

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:33:24 pm
content: Neither a fake nor a replica. Just your average design standard we have come to expect and cherish from the USSR.Looks like all the fun happens on the daughterboard. It does appear to be an active FET analog MM.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:37:53 pm
content: I doubt, it has legit signatures and stuff:All the components have valid markings and information, its not just some random number. They all seem professionally made.I also took two additional pictures.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:58:08 pm
content: Did you have fresh batteries in it, when you tested it? No power equals not working.There appear to be two loose wires dangling off to one side, opposite the daughterboard. Has the battery compartment been removed?

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:00:52 pm
content: Yes, in order to properly disassemble it I had to remove the battery compartment.I tried some cheap Chinese batteries when I tested resistance. Doesn't the meter move the pointer with inducted electricity that its getting from the measuring source?

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:06:10 pm
content: No, not when it is a high quality instrument like this one. An active analog multimeter contains an amplifier, which requires power to work. It amplifies the input voltages in order to decrease the load current on what is being tested.Hope you marked the polarity of the wires to the battery compartment before you removed it.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:10:56 pm
content: Oh, that makes sense now that I think about it, there are ICs in it.I did mark the polarity, first thing I do with single color wiresI will try it tomorrow again with some higher quality batteries, like Varta.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:25:50 pm
content: Put it on ebay and buy a nice digital meterhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-USSR-Analog-Multimeter-Ampmeter-Voltmeter-Ommeter-Soviet-Russian-C4353-/161700792911?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a61e4a4fEven though it is Buy It Now (at $135), there are watchers. I think it is cool and wished I owned it.

author: jimon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:33:47 pm
content: I've actually used it in my childhood (long time ago, but I'm young), if I recall correctly it uses obscure 3LR12 4.5v battery. Ok meter, just don't put in mainsPM me if you need translations.

author: stojke
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 03:01:10 pm
content: Hi, would be nice if you could sell all the junk that easily on ebayQuote from: jimon on July 10, 2015, 07:33:47 pmHi Jimon, I have tried installing the batteries, this unit hosts 3 double-A batteries for an total of 4.5V. There is also an indicator on the plastic saying 3.7 ~ 4.7 Volts.Even with the batteries in, it measures an 1.5V battery as an 2.1V battery. Which is oddly an square root of 2 more times than it should display. Similar with other voltages now that I think about it.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 04:56:40 pm
content: Don`t say "junk". It is decent tool if You know to use it properly. This is progressive model from late eightiesOnly this one russian (I mean USSR) analog meter "C4310"* use opamp detector (see also 0.075V range and input impedance) and LINEAR AC scale + safety relay(all similar look meters (such as "C4342"* or classic SANWA YX360) have no any IC and use only diode pair + poor logarifmic AC scale).PS:-"C" mean russian letter "Tse"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tse_(Cyrillic) All multimeters names in USSR contain "Tse" letter and unformal common name of any meter is "Tseschka"- the first two digits of russian serial number sign year of production, i.e. this is fresh 1990 unit. Keep in mind that russians do not appreciate the local electronics manufactured after 1986 ("perestroika" era).