Coolest Clock - projecting dark light! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 02:25:59 pm
content: Yet another concept that would require the ability to project "dark light" to acheive what they showhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/coolest-clock-probably-the-coolest-clock-ever

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 03:15:51 pm
content: You know, since when do the laws of physics get in the way of Photoshop and Adobe After Effects?They show some fuzzy pictures of an Arduino, Raspberry Pi and then whoa, jump to an LCOS display (3D rendering, of course), because the guys have no clue how to make something like that to work. But they have walked away with their $20k already, I would call that a success (for the campaign creator, of course).It only shows that some people are too dumb to use money without supervision.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 10:06:25 pm
content: I watched the video and everything is a rendered graphic.Further down the page there is nothing real.The images will NEVER be as sharp and bright as they have given in their photoshopped renders.This is doomed to fail.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 10:17:25 pm
content: Seems legit, no?

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:06:39 am
content: yayyyyyy darkness projection! my favorite kind of fail.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:08:50 am
content: "The secret is: Rocket Science, Magic and Love."Their words - not mine!Obviously on top of their game, but the 'love' my run out sooner than later.Let's hope the rocket science and magic have stronger foundations!

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 12:58:30 pm
content: Already over $75k. Yet another IGG project that won't end well.I considered backing for $1 and asking some "hard" questions. But from experience I know that a lot of backers seem to get too emotionally invested to see the truth. In any case, with it being on IGG it is too late for backers to change their pledge, and the creators can just delete unwanted posts anyway. So a bit of a lost cause.Hopefully some potential backers will do some Google searching and find this - so I'm just going to include the following *completely unrelated* words here... coolest clock indiegogo scam

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 01:21:42 pm
content: OK, glad to see a couple of people questioning the projection of a dark image on a white wall in full daylight.It will be interesting to see if the creator actually bothers to respond...Either way both the creator and IGG will happily be raking in the cash

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 01:23:14 pm
content: Hi,Don't knock this project!! It is based on alien technology from another world. I watched the video. The clock was developed on a planet withtwomoons.If the speed of light is 3 x 10E8 ms-1. What is the speed of darkness ?Jay_Diddy_B

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 01:25:40 pm
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 15, 2015, 01:23:14 pm

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 01:37:57 pm
content: Ok, they've sold about 498 clocks so far.Their chart says 23% of their funding goes towards hardware:https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/1214040/files/20150211060039-Piewherego_CC.png?1423663239So, a grand total of $36 per clock, will actually be used to make them.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 01:52:55 pm
content: Hi,The proposed projector, from the IGG campaign, has a pitiful output of 9 lumens. LEDs have an output of about 100 lumens per Watt, so we are talking 100mW or a white LED running at around 30 mA.May be you don't need a lot of lumens if you are projecting darknessIn addition the lifetime is stated at 10K hours.10,000 / 24 x 365 = 1.14 years or 1 year and 2 months.Jay_Diddy_B

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 15, 2015, 01:37:57 pmWow, I hadn't seen that.While it is good to see that they've allocated funds to many areas that other crowd funding creators forget about, to get their BOM and manufacturing costs to that level will mean needing a very large order... and probably leaving out some of the core features, like the projector!Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 15, 2015, 01:52:55 pm9 lumens??!?!?!? So it is worse than one of those pitiful pocket pico projectors!Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 15, 2015, 01:52:55 pmThis just shows the lack of any basic up front engineering. The fact they're aren't planning to build their first prototypes until July is pretty telling.They're just a design concept firm, and actulaly have two other (non hardware) IGG campaigns running concurrently with this one.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:13:50 pm
content: They've "adressed" the projection of black light in their latest update.QuoteSo essentially, they have no clue.

author: bigone5500
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 15, 2015, 01:23:14 pmSir, you are wrong. There are 4 moons to be exact. 3 of which have their own windows panes and the 4th which is too large to be included in the photo so it stays hidden above frame.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:24:24 pm
content: Sir, you are wrong. There are 4 moons to be exact. 3 of which have their own windows panes and the 4th which is too large to be included in the photo so it stays hidden above frame.I am sorry, I thought it was the planet that went for my vacation last year.Thisisn't a bullshit meter. This is a bullshit meter:Jay

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 02:50:25 pm
content: Funny how none of the pics show an ugly power lead hanging off it - are they expecting people to drill/channel the wall, or does it use some magic voodoo to power itself from wifi signals (or projected unicorn farts)

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:03:30 pm
content: It'll be battery powered... with a runtime of 23 hours between charges.This is a problem most artists/designers have: absolutely no clue of what is actually practical.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:15:01 pm
content: They've provided a sample photo of the projection to show the "dark colors are OK"...QuoteThat doesn't look like a daylight lit room to me. I also suspect it is a completely different projector.Also, they've stated in an update that there will not be a battery powered version (maybe they actually did some math on that?) - so you need to live with an ugly power cable, or get an electrician to install a power point halfway up your wall. Or as someone just suggested, install it upside down - so that all the dust can settle on the optics!

author: andtfoot
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 03:19:16 pm
content: Maybe they will team up withuBeamand power it ultrasonically...

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 04:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on February 15, 2015, 03:15:01 pmThere is a bit of an optical illusion going on here. It appears that the girls hair is darker than the background. But If I copy the a block including the hair and paste it over the background. I see the expected resulted that the hair is the same as the background.It is interesting to note that the clock projection, does not match the time on the real clock.Jay

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 05:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 15, 2015, 02:50:25 pmyes, but onlydarkprojected unicorn farts.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 05:27:45 pm
content: QuoteI'm sure the small font will look like that when it's projected at an acute angle of 10-20 degrees or something. yep. no problems here.

author: mux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 05:49:15 pm
content: So, this is a BIG technological problem, and the only thing the developers (which I assume are legit people, they're not trying to scam) have done so far is focus on the software features.These LCoS modules are pretty good. People around here saying picoprojectors don't do the job: I've had one for a couple years in the bedroom and they are MUCH more optically bright than the raw lumen figures give an indication of. Human sight is roughly logarithmic-ish, so this won't look too bad in a room, as long as there's no direct sunlight on the piece of wall that the clock is on. Take into account that it's a pretty small projection area, too. I'd say the choice for this module is fine.But then...In order to get this to work at short range and at the very shallow projection angle they show, they need custom aspherical optics. Also, they probably need some reflective field-distortion optics to get the resolution nearby to be the same as the image resolution at the farthest corner. This is NOT simple to do. With any straight (single element/dual element) aspherical focusing optics they will have unacceptable color fringing. Honestly, they need to hire an optical engineer, which is impossible on their R&D budget.The price is also just too low. Those modules are $80 (yes, 80 us bucks) in small quantities. They only go down a little bit with larger quantity, which they will not be able to hit (we're talking 10ku+). Then they need something pretty beefy to run TCP/IP and their image composition stuff, some AC power solution, wifi and supporting electronics. Even with (not actually commercially acceptable!) ESP8266-type stuff and a pretty barebones board with off the shelf wall wart, that's at least $15 BOM. Then there's the enclosure, which again, at these volumes you're not going to get below a couple bucks per piece (I've been there, casts or molds are just a fixed price of at least $2000/piece). All in all, we're looking at $100 BOM at a minimum if they get absolute killer pricing on those projector modules. They budgeted $36 per clock at the moment of writing (532 clocks at $83981 raised). Nope. In order to break even, they need to AT LEAST multiply BOM by 2.6, but in this case about 3 because of the IGG and payment fees. So they need about $175,000 to make this work. This is essentially a $100k loss leader.So we've got something that is technically very hard, on a pretty giant loss leader. Even if they go into full-on production after the campaign, the gross margin on their product (MSRP $299) is still only about $190. Even in the best situation (BOM x 2.2-2.4) that's only a net profit of $50 per clock. It would take something like 2500 additional, non-reduced price clock sales just to break even on the IGG loss leader. On a product that I would very much doubt is going to live up to its expectations.Nope. This project should have been bootstrapped and should have been better prepared for the launch. There is clearly a market, they would have succeeded financially regardless of the campaign date.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:20:44 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on February 15, 2015, 02:13:50 pmHell no!They're projecting white/coloured light onto black walls!Don't give up so easily.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 11:56:38 pm
content: The video appears to show a light illuminating a sticker on the wall.Perhaps the old Seller's Goon, "I've got a sticker with the time printed on it".

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:38:25 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on February 15, 2015, 02:07:35 pmNo, they are just scammers.If I am a "video game design firm" and I come up with technically impossible video game concepts - like an MMO game that can handle 1 million concurrent players on a peer-to-peer setup, then I get people to give me money to develop such a product, then fail to deliver by have enrichened myself from the project - then that is fraud. Here in the USA it's fraud by negligence, at best. Such as if you buy a car and the guy selling it says it was never in an accident... then you find out it was a total loss and was repaired by an incompetent mechanic... the guy who claimed it was never in an accident because he just didn't think it was has committed negligent fraud.I personally think it rises to a higher level and it's willful fraud because even a cursory review of the project plan by an experienced person - or some investigation from an inexperienced person - would show that it's an impossible goal. That level of due diligence should be incumbent upon project creators before they go out and ask for funding.The people 'investing' in this project are fools and deserve what's coming to them. Any and all of them could very easily do a tiny bit of due diligence and discover the project has no chance of success as stated - but they are being irrational with their money and so they deserve to lose it. Some day they will put on their big boy and big girl pants and realize there are a lot of people out there ready and willing to scam you and we each bear the responsibility of using our brain before we open our wallet.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 12:38:59 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on February 15, 2015, 01:23:14 pmEasy. 3 x 10E-8 ms-1. Imagine the delay issues between bright and dark parts of the image!

author: Laurynas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 07:05:53 am
content: Darkness can be much faster than light. (think of a shadow of an object traveling nearly as fast as light).So these geniuses should use theirdarkness emitterstmto speed up communications.I'm sure stock micro traders would be happy to pay

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 07:28:00 pm
content: Quote from: Laurynas on February 18, 2015, 07:05:53 amYou could, with a big enough laser, move a point of light across the face of the moon faster than the speed of light, that doesn't mean the light (or the darkness either side of it) is actually travelling faster than light. The "information" is travelling from the laser to the moon, not from one end of the moon to the other. Shame it doesn't though, the Cherenkov radiation would be pretty and blue is really popular and modern ATM.

author: notzippy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 11:42:52 pm
content: What pisses me off is when the tv picks up on this as wellhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGGEiDHR-Nw&feature=youtu.beSend alexandra.bahou@wxyz.com an email and link her some facts...

author: Faccina
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 01:01:40 am
content: They had this when they have launched the project (See attachment picture).That was against the terms and i saw only an arduino with some random display and all cg images so i have reported it:QuoteAfter some days they have removed it, now changed with win a clock stuff.Well, the funny thing is that i got my accountBANNED, for the same reason,w/o any way to get it back.And i was raising money to help my family, we have got 2 landslides near home and the roof broke so we have to rebuild it, i was offering the 10% raised to one random donor.IMHO this will end with a crappy thing if isn't a scam.Like this impossible to work thing:https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vitastiq-a-smart-device-for-vital-advice

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 01:49:56 am
content: The laser based projectors with infinite focus are pretty neat, they can project onto arbitrary surfaces, seems like they would need that or some really funky optics to project the way they are showing in the mock ups from such an oblique angle. You would still have the issue that the bottom pixels will be taller than the top ones so you would have to correct for that in software. Not going to be as cheap or nice as they seem to think. Requiring a wall mounted screen that exactly fits the shape of the projection would greatly improve the clarity, line it up just right and it could be mostly seamless. maybe.I have a small laser based projector I use for augmented reality stuff.MIT is doing some cool stuffhttp://www.pranavmistry.com/projects/sixthsense/In any case, if they could provide that at that price point, the first thing I'd do is buy one and canibalize the processor and projector out of it to install my own OS on it, can think of more interesting things than a clock.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 03:27:58 pm
content: This has "Makibox $300 3D printer" written all over it. They will start shipping units after a very long dev time, there will be lots of complaints, demands for refunds, then it goes quiet and then they announce they have run out of funds and sadly have to shut up shop, leaving a lot of punters with nothing and no possibility of refund.Ironically, after Makibox have gone bust, there is some "clearance stock" being offered for the original asking price of the unit! Hardly a bargain, since there is no technical support, it was never a good printer anyway.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 02:57:13 pm
content: Last 48 hours and they still havent shown a working prototype - just trying desperately to get as many last minutesuckersbackers as possible.In the latest update they're saying they could maybe use something like this technology to help with projecting images:http://youtu.be/4bMMWEK4VhYExcept that would require you to mount a projection "screen" on the wall under the projector (which I'm sure people will *love*...), will almost certainly be quite lossy thus requiring a much brighter projector, and is going to hugely inflate their already impossible BOM costing.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2015, 02:50:39 pm
content: As Terry Pratchett pointed out - the speed of dark must be greater than the speed of light, since the dark has to get out of the way of the light.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 08:18:13 pm
content: Their "plan" is to finalize the prototype in November - then start manufacturing and ship all in time for Christmas 2015??There's going to be 1211 serious disappointed people by New Year...

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 10:22:01 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on April 03, 2015, 08:18:13 pmWhat? from final prototype to shipping in 1 month ??

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 02:26:49 pm
content: I misread slightly but it still seems quite ambitious :QuoteIn my experience, never give Christmas as a deadline! Early Q1, maybe

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 03:03:51 pm
content: $242,027 for a 30 second vaporware CGI demo. Not bad.Seriously there needs to be a bulshitometer on each Kickstarter page, to warn the gullible from giving their money to scammers.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 01:39:50 am
content: March/June -- receive circuit boardsit's already April, and there's no gerbers on the page, no work in progress of the prototype, clearly no working prototype, and just some images of a Pi and the Pi bootscreen.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2015, 09:36:17 pm
content: Hi group,Check this in EDN:http://www.edn.com/electronics-products/electronic-product-reviews/other/4439097/Zener-enhanced-Dark-Emitting-Diodes--ZeDEDs--deliver-10X-more-Dark-Flux-WattThese dark emitting diodes are just what this project needs.Jay_Diddy_B

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 03:13:08 pm
content: I was curious what ever happened to this project. They are still providing updates, and they sound on the verge of imploding...it turns out several of the dev team have jumped ship and now they're looking at late 2016...https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/coolest-clock-probably-the-coolest-clock-ever#/updates

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 03:22:08 pm
content: QuoteNo shit it's not working as they wish and is hard to manufacture, because not a single one of their CG images is physically possible!

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 03:44:40 pm
content: They do seem to have spent some money on outsourcing the electronics and PCB design, but only a trivial rigid interconnect PCB was shown in any detail, and no sign of the custom flex PCB they promised photos of. They clearly have no idea on product development. I called them out on twitter long ago about their technical issues, but the language barrier made it just too difficult to communicate. Now they've hit some "hiccup with the manufacturing process" which will delay shipping till 4Q 2016 best case. Their estimated time frame for shipping has always been the least of their problems.I like to think the login form on their website gives a good idea of how well their projection clock will work. What login form? Well, if you look closely you can just make it out amongst all the different shades of grey.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:09:59 pm
content: WARNING #1: IndieGogoWARNING #2: InDemandWARNING #3: Fuzzy pictures of Arduino's, Multimeters and other electronics stuffWARNING #4: All product photos, videos, completely renderedWARNING #5: Ridiculously low priceWARNING #6: Time-lineObviously these are not enough warnings...The old saying still holds true.... "A Fool And His Money Are Soon Parted".This clock can be made. It is not out of feasibility, but it will cost way more and take more time than they let on. You are not going to run it on an Arduino. There are already Android apps that do what this clock does, complete with fancy faces and pulling in data from newsfeeds and so on. The challenge here is to package in a projector and also provide the means to interact with the device. For example, you can rig up such a clock using these existing devices:1. Android tablet with HDMI out, and micro-USB to accept mini-keyboard/trackpad or Bluetooth2. Pico projector with HDMI in3. USB keyboard/trackpad to plug in to interact with Android tablet (or bluetooth)So have your custom app installed on the Android tablet, let you plug in (or connect bluetooth) keyboard/trackpda to configure the tablet... like app basic settings, configure WiFi network/password, etc. Finally, output of Android tablet to the Pico projector and there you have it. Need to just power up both devices. The biggest problem is the optics on the projector to allow such angled projection (keystoning issue). Once you have configured the device, it should just sit there and run your clock app and project with minimal user interaction, but if you want to mess around with the settings you could just turn on your bluetooth keyboard/trackpad.In fact, if they do use an Android tablet they can even integrate Skype since the tablet will have a camera. They can load on the app and you can Skype-chat with someone and see their face on the wall. Also, you could have it cycle through your photo app and be like a slide-show of family photos. Tons of features available if they simply use an Android tablet.Surely, if they actually could build such a thing as a prototype they could have already hooked up a rudimentary clock like this. The rest would be figuring out how to put everything in a convenient package, tuck all the power and wiring in there and then refine the software. But otherwise you have yourself an Android tablet hanging on your wall which projects to your wall. Not brain surgery. And with the $289,000+ they have now, they can surely buy themselves an Android tablet, bluetooth keyboard/trackpad and pico projector:ITEM #1:http://www.amazon.com/Android-KitKat-Tablet-Cameras-Bluetooth/dp/B00KVVAI3CITEM #2:http://www.amazon.com/QQ-Tech-Bluetooth-Keyboard-Touchpad-Android/dp/B00BALK9CMITEM #3:http://www.amazon.com/AAXA-Projector-Minute-Battery-mini-HDMI/dp/B007CWDFP6Now the MINIMUM price for such a thing will have to be at least $600-700. There is just too much in there to sell for even $299 for one. It is totally possible to create this clock, but not for the price and timeline they have stated. I am also sure that someone here on EEVBlog or one of the Maker sites (or Instructables) has already everything they need to create this thing (short of the custom app) and that the work involved will be how to take everything apart and re-package it in a convenient wall-hanging package.If you strip the LCD display from the Android tablet, cameras, battery, etc... you can shave on some cost. Leave in the WiFi module and speaker, bluetooth, and use HDMI output to the pico projector (or some variant). If you can find a small LED projector and have enough room inside you could stick the guts of the Android tablet into the Pico projector and power it off the same supply. Now all you need is to set up your bluetooth keyboard/mouse somehow. Perhaps leave a mini USB port just in case to get in first... turn on bluetooth and set up the bluetooth keyboard/trackpad, then once configured it should automatically detect it every time you turn the keyboard/trackpad on.Honestly, at this point I would just start another IndieGogo campaign and just sell an "Android Projector" pre-configured with a bluetooth keyboard/trackpad. Let people use it for whatever they want (presentations, gaming, video conferencing, playing movies, projector clock, etc). Certainly melding the 2 devices into 1 package is nothing new. It has been done already, and for only $450:http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/tablets/lenovo-yoga-tablet-2-pro

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: edy on March 25, 2016, 09:09:59 pmAprojection clock can be made, butTHISprojection clock cannot. It is physically impossible to make a device that will project an image onto a wall that looks ANYTHING like their renderings.When you project an image onto a surface, the absolute darkest point in your image can be no darker than the surface already was before you turned on the projector. When you are projecting onto a well-lit surface, as is the case with all of their renderings, all you can do is make certain pixels even brighter, you cannot make any point in the projection darker (at least until the infamous dark-emitting-diode is invented). This is why they turn off the lights in movie theaters. Ever try to look at the screen after they turn the lights on? Apparently nobody backing this campaign has.This:is impossible, as are ALL of their other renderings.Replacing all of their renderings with what the projection would ACTUALLY look like in each of those scenarios, would look so terrible that nobody would have backed it. As Kean mentioned, the login page on their site is a good example of what it would actually look like...pretty much useless. Either they are idiots, or scam artists. I'm feeling optimistic, so I'm going with idiots.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:37:32 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on March 25, 2016, 09:27:43 pmAbsolutely agreed. And their "update" page now is just a bunch of excuses stringing people along for the ride while they run off with the money. Another bunch of crowd-funders BURNED. What a shame, forget about the DarkWeb and SilkRoad. Who knows how many criminal organizations use it to raise funds these days... Organized Crime Rings are surely watching, as are Terrorism Groups.... Great way to raise funds don't you think!And yet the US Government doesn't do anything to look into IGG crowd-funding.... Hmmm... What if they suspected it was being used to raise money for terrorism or organized crime rings? FBI and IRS want not to investigate at least somewhat the money flow here? Really? Perhaps some awareness is needed, a CHANGE.ORG campaign and maybe some anonymous letters to government officials or a leak to the media might stir up some scrutiny.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 03:18:25 am
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on March 25, 2016, 09:27:43 pmI think they started off as idiots, but as things progressed they've become scammers by hiding the truth of their incompetence.Very similar to many other campaigns - such as muOptics or Ritot.

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:00:57 am
content: I learned about PG-PCS technology as a result of seeing this. So they've accomplished at least one (small) good thing.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 09:27:11 pm
content: ***sound of crickets***Came across this thing again. Not surprisingly, it is quite dead. But wait, 2 weeks ago there was this update:QuoteSo put the 8th of February in your calendar for your amusement.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 09:05:22 pm
content: What a surprise. No update.Walking away with 289k USD, not bad.

author: aksg81
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 11:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on February 15, 2015, 02:08:50 amReminded me of the end of the movie Interstellar.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 11:55:16 pm
content: Just saw it and thought I'd do a video on this and then realised it's 2 years old, doh!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 11:56:05 pm
content: It would have the same issues as the Circret bracelet