Solder choice AIM Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 vs MG Chemicals 63/37 No Clean Leaded Solder - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 10:37:36 am
content: Hi guys,Help me choose the right solder please. I want to be flexible for threw holes and also PCB work. I currently have RadioShack SnPb 60/40 Rosin-Core Solder, 0.062" Diameter Rosin core and it sucks. None joints i did are shiny. I used 373F temps but i doubt they are bad. Just mate looking. I have attached pic below for reference.I need to buy something really good. I narrowed it down to those two choices. I do like MG Chems being no clean and they claim it runs just like RA activated in their spec sheet. I do like 2% content of AG in AIM one. Maybe i should buy both, i want to but 1.5lbs of solder will last me lifetime.Is Ag addition better since joints most likely all will be shiny? Also The AIM with Ag have no "plasticy" (slow cool down) period just like 63/37 one?, unlike 60/40 which has plasticy period?MG also has RA activated one but i really dont want to bother with cleaning after but also AG content intrigues me.AIM Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 RA3% 0.025" 1lb $25 (double solder vs MG)https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/738-13772vsMG Chemicals 63/37 No Clean Leaded Solder 0.032" 1/2 lb $23https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005T8NCP8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81uo-FAupwL.pdfMy current solder which i dislike due to none joints beins shiny, all are matehttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BGXUC84/?coliid=I1WFVDGGUB3TXZ&colid=344GJOB1C0D5B&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_itAlso follow up question. Are capacitors installed with correct polarity? I'm referring to outside foil not plus or minus.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 02:58:29 pm
content: Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 is useful where you need higher strength or need to avoid dissolving silver terminations. It may also wet better on difficult materials like brass, steel, and stainless steel. But in general I find it more difficult to work with.Sn63/Pb37 and Sn60/Pb40 are practically identical as far as performance and results.No clean fluxes are best on new parts. For general rework and use with older parts, a more of a more active flux should be used. So look for a solder with a larger flux core with a more active flux.Try wiping down the outside of the solder you have to remove oxides and contamination before using it.

author: reboots
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 05:15:56 pm
content: Quote from: Rango on December 18, 2019, 10:37:36 amDid you mean 373C? 373F would be very low, although it is technically above the melting point of tin/lead solder. I typically use a temperature-controlled soldering station set to 650-750F, depending on the work. A higher tip temperature lets you heat the joint area quickly, so you can make a good joint and get out fast to minimize heat conducted to nearby circuitry.For general-purpose solder, I use Kester 245 No Clean 63/37 .031" (P/N 24-6337-8800). The No Clean doesn't wet as well as rosin core, but it's nicer for quick PCB repairs.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 08:07:57 pm
content: Thanks guys for feedback. I was expecting overwhelming Ag support. lol. You've guys convinced me. I think i will swap to 63/37.So between AIM 63/37 RMA (mildly activated) $21/lb shipped vs MG Chemicals 63/37 RA (Rosin Activated) $32/lb shipped which one is better you guys think?I'm going to pass on Kester due to their pricing.In MG specs sheet they state that it's non-corrosive and removal NOT required, and if so that would be great. It also has 2.2% instead of 3% which i think it's little better?Please let me know your thoughts on this one.I've seen videos on youtube with 3% there seems to be too much rosin floating around the board and with 2% is almost perfect. This has 2.2% so it little higher then testing i've seen.I'll mostly be working with New components, that being devices like those pots or boards. I probably will not encounter corrosive old boards as that is something i don't see myself dong, at least now.For the temperatures sorry i've listed in F but but was thinking in C, so yes 673F or 373C. Sorry about that. I use 853D clone of Hakko for soldering station. I love that thing.Is 0.032" wire good width for circuit boards. I mostly work not on circuit boards but i also want to be flexible. I found RS one with 0.029" to be little thin but its ok. Don't see myself going thinner then that.BTW i didn't remove flux paste from top of those pots, i wonder if that's corrosion setting in now. I've used sand paper to make top of them rough so solder would stick better to top of the surface.Apparently they use some type of coating which slippery and make it hard to stick. By doing so i've probably taken of protective coating and left bare metal to be exposed to Flux paste.Hopefully that is not going to cause an issue. Rookie mistake.Aim 63/37 RMA 2% - $21/lb shippedhttps://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/AIM/13541?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtyU1cDF2RqUC2jZXPeLZbbZNUz3elAYig%3Dhttps://www.digchip.com/datasheets/download_datasheet.php?id=3340073&part-number=13541ORMG Chemicals 63/37 RA 2.2%, Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 1 lbs Spool - $32/lb shippedhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005T8ND66/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81h+ZhgF19L.pdfBenefits & Features• Eutectic alloy (liquidus = solidus temperature)• Alloy exceeds J-STD-006C and meets ASTM B 32purity requirements• Flux meets J-STD-004B• Rosin-activated flux• Fast wetting• Fast flowing• Non-corrosive• Non-conductive

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 08:53:49 pm
content: I would go with the MG chemicals stuff, I have some of that and find it to be decent enough. Grab yourself a flux pen too while your at it for the odd occasion you need a little extra. Even new parts sometimes need a quick dab and the pen does that and makes life easy.Good luck however you choose.

author: GerryR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 09:22:47 pm
content: I think that, from the picture, you need to increase your heat. As reboot said, hot lets you get in and out faster. You can be more cautious with the temperature on solid state devices. Also, the rosin core is non-corrosive, hence why it is used for electronics. Residue can be removed with denatured alcohol, or you can buy a flux remover; alcohol works fine. Many of the "No-clean" solders look like frosted, cold joints when done, but they have their place. Stick with the rosin core solders, and it is handy to have some .032 when working on finer / densly populated boards / components. Kester "44" in .040 has been my main go-to for years.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 11:24:09 pm
content: Both MG and AIM are respected brands, but as of a week or two ago, my daily driver solder — Kester 63/37, 0.031” with type 44 flux (rosin) — was just $25 on Amazon (from Amazon itself, not third party marketplace BS). It seems to be more this week, though the 0.020” version is under $30.Bear in mind that I consider it a false economy to penny-pinch on solder, given that the amount used in a project is so tiny as to be negligible. (In my entire lifetime, with 30 years of doing electronics as a small-time hobby, I’ve spent no more than $150 in solder, and the bulk of that has yet to be used!) In contrast, bad solder (or solder that’s simply inappropriate for the job) will cost you a lot in both time and damaged components.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2019, 11:27:35 pm
content: P.S. Should you ever need to go lead-free, buy the more expensive SAC305 alloy. It’s more expensive than the silver-free lead-free solders, but much nicer to work with. (Though still not as nice as 63/37 leaded.) I have the MG Chemicals no-clean SAC305 and it’s great stuff.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 03:50:02 am
content: Thanks guys. Kester price point is actually cheaper then MG for common size wire. Its 3.3% RA. Interesting. I must have been looking at their Ag formula as well which is whopping $90/lb.Anyhow. I will pick something. Hard to decide to be honest. I've viewed this video for testing and those solder with Ag in it have really really shiny joints. All of them.I'm not considering any Chinese brands. I'm also not considering any non lead alloys. Only MG, AIM and Kester. I wish guy include those two in there. Not sure why only Kester made it to his testing. From what i've noticed from his testing those with 3% RA spit a lot and those with slight less 2% do not. MG is nice medium of 2.2%. I'm not sure i wanna clean the boards and it seems 2.2% does not spit too much.From what you guys told its seems my iron maybe was not high enough and maybe the appearance of mate joints. I'll be doing wires and jacks so i'll bump it to higher.I was curious and checked my iron temp as last setting and it is 373C degree as this clone is only Celcuis, not F based. So maybe i should bump it to 400C, i just don't wanna vaporize the Rosin?Does solder with Rosin inside have any shelf life, like rosin loosing it's properties after certain period of time. I think not but might as well ask?

author: jhpadjustable
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 05:15:22 am
content: Watch out with RA flux. Activatorsarecorrosive and you will need to clean the flux thoroughly. You want RMA for general applications, or even just R or NC if you're working with something you can't clean thoroughly, like insulated stranded wire (wicking!). You can always add a stronger flux separately to joints that need it.373°C is pretty hot for leaded solder. If anything, turn it down a few tens of degrees.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 05:30:19 am
content: Quote from: jhpadjustable on December 19, 2019, 05:15:22 amWhat kind of solder are you using? Throw that thing in the garbage!Spec sheet of MG says otherwise contrary to what you said.https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81h+ZhgF19L.pdfBenefits & Features• Eutectic alloy (liquidus = solidus temperature)• Alloy exceeds J-STD-006C and meets ASTM B 32purity requirements• Flux meets J-STD-004B• Rosin-activated flux• Fast wetting• Fast flowing• Non-corrosive• Non-conductiveGeneral Flux ParametersProperties ValueResidue Removal Not requiredFlux Percentage 2.2%Flux Feature Fast wetting, fast flowing, non-conductiveShelf Life 5 y

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 08:23:42 am
content: It seems you need to turn your iron down a bit buddy, maybe 250-300 *C would be good depending what your doing. Keep in mind the copy irons temp readings "can" be out a little so you may end up a bit higher or lower than you expect. Get the right tools and your first few joints will tell you if your iron needs turned up or down a bit maybe even more or less than suggested .For eg- if it's a big joint with a couple of bigger wires going to it go with the top end but if it is a new part on a nice clean board go with the lower end.Get yourself some "decent" solder wick so you can clean the pads ready to accept the new part after de-soldering the old part.Get a flux pen to give the pads a quick dab before accepting a new or replacement part. You also won't go wrong with some IPA or similar to give your work a quick clean after all the soldering is done.I think if you go with that and any other advice from the more experienced guys your next pictures will look a lot better than the one posted. You need the right tools and materials or your joints etc will always look crap.You don't need to spend 100's of $$'s to get decent stuff. I see one of the guys posted Kester solder cheap, you won't go wrong with that and the forum is full of good advice.The fact you asked means your already on your way to better soldering. Once you have sorted the general procedure and got the right tools you'll probably hone it to suit yourself a bit as you get better. I learned from scratch asking the guys here and can do ok soldering now.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 09:41:00 am
content: I have been a happy user of Sn60Pb40 with common SW26/1.1.2 type halide activated flux, in 2.5% concentration IIRC. It does spit drops of flux around at times and it is recommended to clean it afterwards and I always do, but it really makes the solder flow well and wet even less than pristine surfaces.OTOH, I recently wanted to try that newfangled lead-free no-clean stuf so I got some Sn99.3/Cu0.7 with 3% 1.1.3 type halide-free flux. Despite higher flux content, it's just horrible. I mean, it kinda works, but then I tried to solder some old-ass cable to an old-ass connector which it broke off from or solder to some nickel or steel surface and it didn't want to touch them at all. Cranking temperature up did nothing either.

author: GerryR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 12:03:24 pm
content: Unless you are doing very fine wire / component lead soldering (low mass), as soon as you touch the joint you are trying to solder, the temperature of the tip is sucked down, and you have to dwell longer to get back to soldering temperature, so a higher temperature than the melting point of the solder is usually desirable, along with agood techniqueto prevent cooking the parts.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 12:57:42 pm
content: I use Kester 44 63/37 and MG Chemicals 835 liquid flux. I solder at 650F. However I don't use a clone. I have a Metcal MX-500 with 600 series tips and a Hakko FX-951 set at 650F. I do clean up after soldering as I want my work to look like the board wasn't touched if I have to replace parts. I prefer 63/37 over 60/40 because it is eutectic.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 01:05:03 pm
content: My vote is for KESTER 285- Mildly activated rosin- 63/37If your soldering bigger things that take some time to heat up try adding extra flux 1/2 way through, and/or using a bigger iron tip.Sometimes you can think the solder is shit but it's just that the flux burns off to quick for the type of job you're doing and extra flux is needed to make the joint good.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 05:58:40 pm
content: Quote from: Rango on December 19, 2019, 03:50:02 amIf it does, I have not noticed with rosin cored solder which is 40+ years old at least with Kester 44 flux. I think there is a warning about water soluble organic fluxes degrading in less than a year.

author: FlyWizard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 07:10:41 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on December 19, 2019, 05:58:40 pmI agree with David. I have a Kester Rosin 60/40 spool that's 39+ years old and it still works great! I did a YouTube video a few weeks ago on solder shelf life:https://youtu.be/fadBnecsvUE

author: reboots
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 07:37:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 18, 2019, 11:24:09 pmAmazon.com has good pricing on both Kester 44 rosin-core and 245 no-clean, respectively:https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0149K4JTYhttps://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00068IJOUAgreed that a 1lb spool might last for many years of hobby use, and that name brand solder is worth it. (I would expect MG Chemicals to be reliable.)I have read that the flux core in wire solder can degrade over time, but I haven't noticed that myself. I have seen some very old rolls of solder which had visible surface oxidization, and didn't work very well.

author: FlyWizard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 07:56:02 pm
content: You can also get smaller lengths of the Kester 63/37, 0.031” with type 44 flux (rosin) on Amazon at:https://amzn.to/2PCLxv2and Kester 63/37, 0.010” with type 44 flux (rosin) on Amazon at:https://amzn.to/2S9EV9aAmong many other varieties and assortments. Same high quality solder but you don't have to buy a full spool.Disclaimer: These are my listings.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2019, 11:21:04 pm
content: Thank you everyone for feedback. Much appreciate it. I've placed an order for AIM 13772 Sn62/Pb36/Ag2. I really like MG Chemicals too. They're very transparent and make data sheets available on amazon. I like how this company does business. BTW to find data sheet from AIM was a pain. Had to dig deep in the net. Terrible transparency IMO. Same thing with Kester. 2 specs are available for MG chems right on amazon page. I like this a lot. I may get MG Chems No clean in the future as well as second roll but we'll see if i need to.Reason i chose AIM 13772 Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/738-13772http://www.mouser.com/catalog/catalogusd/648/2337.pdfPros:Has Ag in it, exotic offering at affordable price. Kester wants $90/lb for Ag. In past all electronics parts had some silver in it.All joints with Chinese Ag in test video were gorgeous. Seeing is believing for me and i expect quality of AIM to be better then Chinese Ag offering.Price: cheap for lb with Ag in it. It seems it's on sale at Mouser at this time vs price listed in catalog.RMA 3% - mildly activated. No need to clean but using activated rosin."Space station guy" is using this brand. If it's good for him it's definitely good for me.Very low melting temp: 179C. Slightly lower then 63/37 combination. Not a big deal but worth mentioning.Conslittle thin 0.025"/0.635mm then i would like but it's ok, i got lb of this stuff now.No (No Clean formula) like MG Chems hasI will drop by iron temp to 350C and change tip to little thicker one. I was using very thin one but needed to get in tight spaces with tiny holes.Soldering station is good and total overkill for what i do but i think it was like $60 i couldn't resist getting it, especially with rework gun which i can also use for shrink tubing as well, which i do often. Really good value IMO. I have no attachments to any brand. Also I'm pretty sure i'm done with ALL 60/40 solder offerings for life. You can thank to R.S for that one.I will be doing some wire soldering with this so when i get done i will follow up with a pic post job. Maybe i'll learn something new with this.BTW i also checked out that discoloring on top of the pots. It's not corrosion but paste residue and some accumulated dust along with discoloration i did with sand paper. It's all good just looks weird in the pic. I checked the paste too and it's non acid one so i'm all good there as well. I cleaned with q-tip with 90% alcohol so it's cleaner now too. No issues there just doesn't look aesthetic.

author: mcovington
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2019, 12:29:51 am
content: Quote from: tooki on December 18, 2019, 11:27:35 pmKester 44, 63/37 or 60/40, is the most popular solder America has ever known. It has been the leader for 50 years or more (with a gradual shift from 60/40 to 63/37).I like Kester K100LD  lead-free solder -- SnCu with traces of nickel and bismuth -- I find that it hardens shinier than SAC (SnAgCu).

author: FlyWizard
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2019, 01:35:01 am
content: The AIM 13772 choice is a good one. I've not used a lot of AIM solder in the past but I've sold a bunch of spools of AIM and the feedback has always been good.I use a ton of 63/37, 60/40 is a really close second, and I hate cleaning so I'm always choosing no-clean flux.The Kester K100LD is on my favorites list for lead free solder. Lower cost than silver bearing and does a great job. I use 24-9574-7610 a lot and have gone through multiple spools on a variety of PCB builds with never a problem. The price is comparable to the AIM 13772 too.