Disappointing DKRed experience - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bdeianov
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 07:20:47 am
content: With the recent uncertainty about ordering from China to the US, I decided to try DKRed (DigiKey's prototype PCB service). I usually use JLC.The ordering flow is pretty bare-bones. There is a basic Gerber viewer, which showed most layers correctly, except for a blank outline layer. The board size was detected correctly, so I pressed on. There doesn't seem to be an automatic DFM check. I placed the order and then I heard nothing else until it shipped 7 days later, arrived in 10. The package came from Royal Circuits in Hollister, CA, so I assume they were the fabricator.The red and gold boards I received sure are pretty, but... none of the non-plated holes were drilled out.I know why this happened: NPTHs were included in the outline layer, but not in the drills file. You can say this was my fault, but: 1. There is absolutely nothing in the DKRed docs or ordering flow on what to do with NPTHs. 2. The intent was clear, and if it wasn't, they should have asked instead of silently ignoring part of a layer. 3. JLC has never had a problem with this.While trying to contact the fabricator about this, I placed the same order with JLC. I used the cheap shipping option and got the boards 11 days later. All good.Another difference was the vias. I used 0.3 mm holes, 0.45 mm pads (the minimum JLC would let you order with no cost adder). The stated DKRed capability is 0.2 mm holes, 0.41 mm pads. What they actually did was ~0.35 mm holes while keeping the pads the same. This left a super skinny annular ring. (Luckily, their alignment is pretty good.) The vias were technically tented, but the ink didn't fill any of the holes. Combined with the oversized holes, this would have been a problem for some of my thermal pads.JLC left via holes at 0.3 mm but enlarged the pads to 0.5 mm. Fine with me and I got to confirm the production files before fabrication. The vast majority of the vias were filled with ink. (I used their cheaper "tented" option, which doesn't guarantee ink in the holes. There is cost-added "plugged" option which forces ink in the holes.)Here is the worst part: I never managed to get any kind of response from the fabricator. There is no direct email or phone number. I left messages through the DigiKey order page, but never heard anything back. Multiple calls to DigiKey Customer Service were also fruitless -- all they could do is email the vendor, but they also never heard back. After a week of this, I asked for and received a refund for the entire order.The JLC ordering flow is vastly superior. Their documentation is 10x better. Their communication is infinitely better. The cost for this order was 1/10 of DKRed. (That's for HASL. Equivalent ENIG would have been 1/2. DKRed doesn't offer HASL.) Time-to-doorstep was the same. I can actually use the JLC boards, while the pretty DKRed ones went in the trash.Needless to say, I'm unlikely to use DKRed again.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 01:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 02, 2025, 07:20:47 amIMO this is definitely on you. I would never expect a fabhouse to drill holes which weren't in a drill file. The fact that JLC got it "right" is very odd IMO.QuoteOk this is not good. Was there any warning of the drill size beforehand (production gerbers, DFM warnings, etc)? Did they confirm this after the fact, or are you just measuring them with a caliper?QuoteYeah JLC's web ordering system is orders of magnitude superior to anything else I've encountered (assuming you like an interactive interface with lots of bells and whistles). I don't think any other fabhouses are going to bother even trying to imitate it. That's just not the way the vast majority of the industry operates.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 07:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: mtwieg on March 06, 2025, 01:19:34 pm100% agree, moreover I would not be happy if this were to happen. At least JLC do not hesitate to ask questions if they don't understand some PCB feature, or it doesn't make sense to them.

author: bdeianov
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 08:09:51 pm
content: Quote from: mtwieg on March 06, 2025, 01:19:34 pmFWIW, this message on the DKRed forum gives two conflicting answers:https://forum.digikey.com/t/can-a-dkred-design-contain-2-drill-files-non-plated-through-holes-npth/13497/2. The latest advice is to provide two drill files. The Gerber upload page doesn't know about this and gives a warning if there are two drill files, so it's anybody's guess what would happen.JLC wants non-plated routed features (slots and such) in the outline layer, so it made sense to me to specify NPTHs that way. Their 3D viewer supports this interpretation. The fact that DKRed does not support internal cutouts should have been a clue. 20/20 hindsight and all that.Quote from: mtwieg on March 06, 2025, 01:19:34 pmNo warning beforehand, no DFM check (the ordering page says so). Was not able to communicate with them after the fact. I measured on the microscope images relative to other known features, e.g. IC pitch.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2025, 10:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 06, 2025, 08:09:51 pmThis is because slots and outside of the board are routed in the same process, with a 2mm (or whatever) routing specific bit.Plated and non-plated round holes are drilled with drills. A router bit is not used.https://www.uniontool.co.jp/en/product/drill_router/pcb_router.htmlI do agree with the other stuff you posted being a fail though.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 08:42:01 am
content: Thanks for the write up. I use JLC pretty much exclusively these days.Did you submit the exact same gerbers to both? I use KiCAD and prepare files for JLC via Fabrication Tool kit plug-in which handles creating correct gerbers, bom and position files. I don't see an equivalent for DKRed which increases the risk of error.

author: bdeianov
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 07:25:50 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on March 07, 2025, 08:42:01 amYes, same Gerbers. I use Fusion with a JLC-provided config file. I haven't had any issues with the files being recognized or displayed with other services or standalone viewers (I use gerbv). DKRed let's you confirm the function of each file (e.g. top copper, drills, etc), so that eliminates naming issues.

author: mtwieg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2025, 01:45:17 pm
content: Quote from: bdeianov on March 06, 2025, 08:09:51 pmI'm not super familiar with the IPC standards, but it's possible there's something in IPC-6012 or IPC-A-600 which gives them cover for doing this (so long as there's no breakout, maintain clearance on inner layers, yada yada...). If so, they should be able to give an explanation. Otherwise IMO this alone is grounds to demand corrective action (refund or redo the fabs at their cost), otherwise abandon the service.