Which Desk Digital Multimeter to pick? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ileacristian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 09:40:47 pm
content: Hellodisclaimer: i'm a newbieAfter my Extech EX330 failed on me (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/extech-ex330-digital-multimeter-failure/) I was thinking to buy a more reliable digital multimeter - also because I love gadgets.Currently I have a Rigol DS1054Z scope, a Rigol DG1022Z function generator and a Rigol DP832 power supply.I was thinking about the Rigol DM 3058E/3058/3068 digital multimeter to complete the "collection". After reading online about what accuracy means, resolution, half digits, ppm and other aspects I only became more confused. I can't even compare too well these rigol DMs between themselves. Probably a sign that I shouldn't buy something so sophisticated. But I want toFrom what I understand the E version doesn't have the ports that the non-E version has. The 68 version has a much higher sampling speed + more accuracy. Is this correct? Other than that it seems hard for a newbie to compare them.Other questions:1. Can someone explain the need for such a high resolution like 5.5, 6.5 or 7.5 ?2. Can someone explain the need for such a high accuracy? 25ppm (I still don't understand what ppm means...). It would be interesting to hear about some real uses.3. I really want a bench DMtho'. What should I buy that will give me the best bang for my buck? (my budget would be up to 700$)4. What advantages do bench multimeters have versus small ones? The ones that I can think of are: accuracy, resolution, bigger display.Thanks

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 10:15:51 pm
content: I intend to address only a couple of your questions. First, ppm. Only a way of talking about small fractions. Actually, 1 million ppm is one million parts per million, also known as the whole thing, or 100%. Down from there, 10,000 ppm is 1%. 100 ppm is 0.01%. 10 ppm is 0.001%. And so on. When you get too many zeroes you can count wrong. When you get below maybe 1 ppm you talk about ppb, or parts per billion. 1000 parts per billion is 1 ppm.One common advantage of a bench top DMM is input impedance. Many have 100 Megohm input, and some have infinite input impedance. As far as I know, none of the hand held units have such high values. The common cheap ones are maybe 1 Megohm and the better ones maybe 10 times that. Another advantage of a high class meter is the ability to float. If you want to measure the voltage across a component when one side isn't grounded, the floating allows you to do that. You could measure each end independently and subtract but a floating measurement does that for you. In particular, current measurement often needs to be floating. And of course if measuring ac, subtracting won't work due to phase difference.Measuring to very high accuracy and precision and resolution is seldom required in ordinary work. It's useful to calibrate lesser quality instruments, maybe set up stnadards, and such. Once you get to a certain accuracy in any mesaurement you start to wonder about the definition of the basic unit. Perhaps the most accurate thing we can measure is frequency; standardizing the reference against the (never local) standards of time and frequency can be challenging.Further, measurements at higher frequency, in the presence of noise, temperature effects, and other annoyances definitely challenge any accurate measurement. We need to know about common mode rejection, power line noise, EMI, and so on.This all falls into a discipline called metrology. How we measure and how we calibrate. Realize that nothing is absolute, and the more fussy we get the more we have to take into consideration these perturbations.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 10:34:15 pm
content: Get a VC8145 which is a decent and well priced 4.5 digit bench DMM (search the forum for more info). It is a fallacy that a bench DMM is supposed to be more accurate than a handheld. A bench DMM is stackable and never runs out of batteries. Beyond that you can spend as much as you like.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 05:42:07 am
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 23, 2019, 09:40:47 pmWelcome to the forum!QuoteIn general, Brymen meters tend to be a forum favorite for quality, features, and robustness.QuoteThat's quite a collection, so far.QuoteYes, it may be a sign that it's still a little early to dive into fancier gadgets since you're not yet clear on what you need from a bench DMM. Often, if you don't know you need certain functionality, there's a good chance you don't need it (yet).For a newbie or hobbyist (or both), a quality handheld DMM is often the best option. Why? Because many of them are loaded with features, have more than enough resolution for general use, tend to be more robust than bench DMMs, and can be easily relocated for other purposes such as household and automotive uses.QuoteIts primary use is for being able to measure small changes in a measurement. If you need to be able to measure a few millivolts change in a 50V output, that requires at least a 5.5-digit meter. Another example is tracking down a short circuit on a PCB. With very high resolution, you can see how much the resistance of a PCB trace changes to know if you're getting closer or further away from a short. It's not something one normally needs. On the other hand, if you do need it, you'll know it.QuoteWith high resolution often comes the need for high accuracy. So, you can measure small changes in a measured value. But do you know if that value is correct to that level of detail? Do you need to know if it's correct to the last digit? Usually, not, but if you do need it (and you're spending the money to maintain regular calibration to prove that it's accurate and the environmental conditions to keep it accurate) then you'll know it.QuoteA quality handheld DMM will probably give you the best bang for buck, especially if you don't have specific requirements that call for a bench DMM with particular features. As you've seen, there's so much to consider that it's difficult to say what is good bang-for-buck without specific requirements to judge each meter against.QuoteThere's a lot of overlap between handheld and bench DMMs. So, the advantages aren't as clear cut these days. In general (and these are very broad generalizations where specific examples can likely be found that counter almost every item),bench DMMs:- No batteries to worry about- Faster sampling rates- Higher input impedance- Higher resolution- Lab-oriented features (e.g., computation, scanning, automation)handheld DMMs:- More robust (e.g., higher CAT rating, may be water resistant/waterproof)- Higher current range- More portable- Friendlier (more forgiving of user error)- Field-oriented/specialized features (e.g., electrical, HVAC, industrial, automotive)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 06:24:29 am
content: Quote from: bob91343 on April 23, 2019, 10:15:51 pmCommon cheap meters have 10 Megaohm. I've got one that does 1 Gigaohm+Quote from: bob91343 on April 23, 2019, 10:15:51 pmAll handhelds are floating by definition. I'd hope all bench meters are too in their default settings, a grounded multimeter probe is dangerous.Quote from: nctnico on April 23, 2019, 10:34:15 pmTo be fair: They can be more accurate because they're designed to be left on all day and can have heated voltage references. Handhelds don't do that because they'd need time to warm up and nobody wants that.The big advantage of a bench meter is that you can leave them on all day and not worry about batteries.Many have push-button interfaces which usually makes it faster to select a mode and you can do it one handed.Apart from that...

author: ileacristian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 09:31:29 am
content: Thanks for all the replies!More questions:5. I've seen online the term "accuracy over a few months". What does this mean? Accuracy if keeping the DMM powered on for a few months? Or is it just that it decalibrates over time no matter what? Why does this happen?6. I've seen this video () while searching for more information about the Vichy that @nctnico mentioned. What does this comparison tries to show?The most interesting thing that I see regarding the Vichy DMM is that it's programable (since I'm a programmer). Is this programability something normal for other brands and devices?Anyway... in the last years I've come to appreciate when something is closed from the get go.7. I've seen on some DDMs that there is a feature for "Trend over time" to measure the voltage change over time for example. This seems to overlap with the functionality of a scope. Why is this useful?8.Quote from: bitseeker on April 24, 2019, 05:42:07 amThat resistance change over the length of a pcb trace seems super cool. Do you know any youtube video where someone demonstrates this process? What kind of accuracy/resolution would you need for something like this?Considering what others said, a bench DMM would be useful if someone needs constant power, logging, maybe have it connected to the PC. This means that the Rigol 3058E would be a poor choice because of less conectivity.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 09:42:04 am
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 24, 2019, 09:31:29 amElectronic parts change over time, eg. light bulbs don't last forever.I wouldn't really worry about that number though, multimeters are designed for that and typically stay accurate for decades. The figures in the brochure are just outer limits for warranty returns.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 11:32:13 am
content: Are there any modern equivalents to the Fluke 8010 or 37?i.e. battery powered but in a desktop form factor?Ah, seems there is:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 12:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 24, 2019, 11:32:13 amHah! I got one of those in awesome condition for $20. It's a Fluke 27 in horizontal format with carrying handle and a space in the back to put tools. It runs of battery but it also has a 9V power connector on it so you can plug it in with a suitably isolated 9V power supply.Quote from: EEVblog on April 24, 2019, 11:32:13 amUni-T also puts handheld meters in big (mostly air) plastic boxes and calls them "bench" meters.eg This one:Full thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/which-desk-digital-multimeter-to-pick/?action=post;msg=2365176

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 12:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 23, 2019, 09:40:47 pmIf you plan to use min/max/avg on the meter then you will want a meter that has the correct combination of counts and digits to measure the entire range you are interested in. Its no good if the meter covers what you need but not on the same range.For example a BLE device might draws 5uA sleeping and 160mA when active with all leds and BLE on.So you might want to spec a 200,000 count 6+ digit meter so you can measure min/max/avg over 1uA to 200mA without changing ranges.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 05:19:29 pm
content: A good bench meter could be a hp Agilent Keysight 34401a, lots of them are floating around, some defective, some in very good shape, and doesn`t cost a fortune, gpib and rs232 ...Most importantly there is schematics available... that would be my main concern : servicing if something happens

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 05:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 23, 2019, 09:40:47 pmSome applications simply require higher resolution to discern small changes in large values.QuotePPM is parts per million just like percent (%) is parts per hundred. 25ppm is 25*10^-6 or 0.0025% but such small percentages are inconvenient.QuoteYou probably could not go wrong.QuoteThose are all good reasons, plus:1. Continuous operation without reliance on batteries.2. High impedance inputs on the lower voltage DC ranges. Rare handheld meters have this also. Note that this can get in the way sometimes if it cannot be disabled.3. 4-lead or Kelvin ohms measurements.4. Some support in-circuit current measurement.5. RTD temperature measurement.6. Crush zombies.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 06:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on April 24, 2019, 05:50:11 pmYep. Almost anything you get for $700 is going to be awesome.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 06:33:30 pm
content: Here is an old review of the Rigol DM3068 since you seem to lean toward Rigol products.I think 6.5 digits is probably overkill. Maybe the DM3058E instead.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 06:42:15 pm
content: 5.5 digits is plenty, you'd have to be doing some really delicate stuff to need 6.5.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 06:50:04 pm
content: And the Siglent SDM3045X:

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 07:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 24, 2019, 06:20:49 pmIf you are going to spend that much anyway then I'd add a couple of 100 more and get the real deal from Keithley or Keysight. The price difference isn't that much relatively speaking. BTW on the higher end meters the higher end can get in the way too. Think about longer boot times, slow continuity, fan noise, etc. I have a Keysight 34461A but the VC8145 is my daily use DMM. The 34461A only gets on the bench if I need more accuracy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 08:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on April 24, 2019, 06:50:04 pmOne of my customers bought one then another and another.I thought the SDM3055 might be the better seller but how wrong was I ?The SDM3065X sells to, just more slowly.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 09:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 24, 2019, 06:24:29 amThe 5.5 digit (60000 count, 0.025%±5) handheld Keysight U1282A has 1GΩ impedance in mV ranges (up to 600mV). There are other handhelds with such characteristics as well.Quote from: EEVblog on April 24, 2019, 11:32:13 amInstek GDM-8135Mastech M9803R

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 09:21:10 pm
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 24, 2019, 09:31:29 amEntropy. Things age. They're exposed to humidity and temperature changes. The universe doesn't stay still and neither does the accuracy of your equipment. It may go up. It may go down. At some points, it may appear never to have changed. Most of the time, it doesn't matter and will stay within specifications. I have meters that are decades old and are still within spec.Those who must be able to prove that their equipment is accurate will pay to have it checked (i.e., calibrated) by an accredited lab on a regular basis (e.g., annually). Hobbyists generally don't have to worry about it.QuoteMany types of test equipment have programmability. How it's done, to what extent it can be programmed, etc. is something you'll have to research for each device.QuoteThe acronym is DMM, which stands forDigitalMultiMeter.If you need to know how much a voltage changes over time, then this feature will be useful. If you don't need to know, it won't be useful to you. This is why you want to collect your requirements prior to shopping for equipment so you can determine if what you're buying will be worth the money you're spending.Even if a DMM is a good deal to others, it may not be to you if it doesn't do what you need it to.An oscilloscope provides this functionality, but graphically. Some DMMs have graphical displays, too. And some scopes have built-in voltmeters. There are overlaps in many kinds of test equipment. Again, it depends what you need and what will best fulfill your needs.QuoteIt depends on the PCB layout, but a 4.5-digit DMM might be enough. 5.5 digits should be enough in general.Check out Ian's video. He's a forum member. Although he used a 6.5-digit DMM, the difference in resistance wasn't so small as to need all of its resolution to see where the short is.QuoteDo you need to log to a PC? If not, the 3058E isn't necessarily a poor choice. If you need logging, then it would be the wrong choice.

author: Hexley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 09:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 24, 2019, 09:31:29 amThe trend function can be useful in situations where you want to see what is happening at a rather slow rate -- the sort of waveform that requires "roll" mode on a scope, for instance.If the DMM can capture and either display directly or let you export it, then you can spot interesting aspects of the waveform and see what needs further investigation. Maybe pull out the scope for that second level of investigation, but at least initially it can be convenient to just have the meter take care things and leave the scope free for other uses.Also, if you happen to be interested in current measurement, the scope will not be able to measure that directly in any case. So the DMM with logging (and possibly display) is pretty convenient solution.Finally, if you like to keep a logbook, the ability to export data from the DMM and paste it into your log is pretty valuable. So a bench DMM with Ethernet capability (or USB) can be very nice indeed.Here is a sample current trend measurement that was captured from a bench DMM (Keysight 34465A) over Ethernet, then pasted into a Word logbook entry. Note that despite the slow time scale, the DMM captured the characteristic pulsatile behavior of the circuit.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 12:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 24, 2019, 07:19:31 pmI tend to agree. The cheapies need to be substantially cheaper. I do wonder how many sales they are winning from big clients, I'd imagine not many. Probably mostly schools and one-man-bands.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 25, 2019, 12:04:16 pmWhat I don't really understand from Keysight is how they can have a list price of $847 for the 5-½ digits 34450A and just a tad more (relatively speaking) $977 for the 6-½ digits 34460A. To me this completely erodes the market for the cheaper one, but maybe I am wrong.As for Keithley, a 5-½ digit 2110 starts much lower ($682) but some folks used to say it is not a great meter. Not quite sure why.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 03:56:17 pm
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 23, 2019, 09:40:47 pmBased on your questions, a Siglent SDM3045X sounds like both a good upgrade from your EX330 and will still exceed your needs and save $.If you needed 5.5, 6.5... 8.5 digits you would know it. Cal labs, precision analog design, scientific and research, small signal or low power measurements need more resolution than 4.5 digits, but for general use 4.5 digits is plenty.PPM stands for Parts Per Million, or from 1 volt, + or - 1ppm would be 0.000,001 or 1uV. So 25 ppm would mean + or - 25uV from 1 volt or 250uV from 10v, so forth and so on.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 04:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pmSimple: "Marketing!"It's the same thing as when a fast food worker asks you if you want to supersize your order for only $1 more. The raw materials probably only cost $0.10 more (potatoes and sugar water!) so they often make $0.90 extra on a $5 sale while at the same time making customers feel they're getting some sort of a 'bargain'.It makes a big difference to their bottom line at the end of each month.

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:44:41 pm
content: ileacristian,You describe yourself as a newbie, don't have any hard requirements for performance/capabilities, have admitted you're not even quite sure what many of the features or characteristic differences are between models but are still willing to throw $700 (US?) at one?! Congratulations, sir, on your affluence. However, wouldn't the best course of action be to get the least expensive one to play with until you understand/need more?To top it off, you are asking a bunch of what are effectively crack-addicts on how much crack to buy, producing the expected response ofif you're going to piss away $700 why not $1000+?Being matchy-matchy myself, I'd get the cheapest Rigol (DM3058E) which is more than enough for your needs.That being said, you could go cheaper still with something like the Siglent SDM3045X (I have one that many times I choose over an SDM3055 since it has no fan and is quiet) that has much of the functionality of these more expensive units at less than $400.

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:55:33 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pmOnly the company knows how many units they're selling, and how much they're making from each model. It may well be that Keysight is still selling plenty of the less expensive model, and that offering an upgraded model for a small increase in price has boosted sales of the more expensive unit. We can't tell without access to their sales records, but it would be hard to believe that they are purposely cutting profits.

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:20:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 24, 2019, 08:29:33 pmIs there any particular reason why you thought that?Looking at the data sheets the only thing that stands out as a "big" difference is the extra digit, but even then, the 3055 is a 200.000 and the 3045X being 60.000 is quite good for the price difference.I guess I have to see more reviews of them, though.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 25, 2019, 04:03:29 pmI suspect this could be the case.On the other hand, I think the 34450A units leave a wider profit margin for negotiation and can be given as "freebies" for large volume or Tier 1 customers, leaving the impression of being a very good bargain.Oh well, we can only speculate.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 08:07:32 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pmBecause it's not Keithley, it's a rebaged Chineese DMM. There are two things I feel wrong about it: 1) probably it can be bought much cheaper on aliexpress or elsewhere (at least this is the story with some of their power supplies and electronic loads) 2) doesn't ensure confidence in quality. I'd assume Keithley == top engineering, excellent QC, etc. But they are nothing to do with this device. So, it's in the same league with Rigol, Siglent, Applent, Uni-t, etc. This is fine with me, I just don't want to pay premium.My take away from the story: do not trust vendors. Every purchase decision is case-by-case basis. Sounds obvious, but a few years ago I'd say "just buy Keithley/Keysight/whatever, the one you can afford, they have tens of years of trust". Now it seems big brands of the past are only competitive in the (relatively) expensive segment.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 08:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: Mortymore on April 25, 2019, 07:20:40 pmI imagined the 3055 as some entry level into the 'volt nut' market but here in NZ it's more about a practical DMM tool for the commercial service/repair bench of some reasonable quality and service backup.Now I think the '45X fits that market segment quite well, price and feature wise.I've sold a few of all the Siglent bench DMM's and originally chose not to stock SDM3045X but they sell just as well as the '55 and '65X so now I hold the $389 SDM3045X in stock too.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 08:36:33 pm
content: Quote from: exe on April 25, 2019, 08:07:32 pmNow that you mentioned I recalled the reason mentioned by free_electron years ago. I did some search and found out it can also come in the shapes of:Picotest M3500AArray M3500ATexio DL-2060and probably more

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 02:41:26 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 24, 2019, 07:19:31 pmPersonally I would look for a meter which does something uniquely useful. Some of the Keithley meters support in circuit current measurements which would be handy.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 06:29:07 am
content: For even MORE money you could get the R&S HMC8012. The thing it has going for it is a nice display and it can give you power measurements by measuring V and A at (nearly) the same time. Otherwise... Maybe just complete your collection and get the 3058, 3068 if you want to be fancy. The good part about going to 6.5D is when you need it you'll already have it. However at that cost you could get a used keysight or for a bit more a new one. It really depends on what you think the future might hold.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:54:22 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on April 26, 2019, 02:41:26 am@David - Quite a reasonable suggestion! Both Rigol DMMs offer some goodies (I don't know for the other brands, got the 3068 and so far, didn't encounter the need to get anything better):The DM3058(E) is able to measure current and voltage at the same time, provided this is electrically possible using the same ground. I'm not sure if it's doing the math to display power directly.The DM3068 samples quite fast (up to 10kSa/s at reduced resolution) and its high-impedance mode raches up to the 20V range which I found very useful once in a while. This permits to do electrometer-like measurements (yet a real electrometer plays in a different league - both sensitivity- and as well price-wise). Ever measured the ion currents of an Americium smoke detector cell directly?A quasi-standard communication protocol (like Agilent 34401A or Fluke 45) is very convenient to have for automated meassurement or especially calibration procedures, so that's something to look for when purchasing a bench DMM (not manufactured by one of the two "big players" mentioned above). Regarding connectivity, I think for the "serious hobby user", USB and ethernet are the most important. The "E"conomy version of the DM3058 (which once in a while is available at Rigol's clearance sales for very little money) provides at leaset USB and RS232, so it may be worth a thought as well if you want to stay with that manufacturer.Anyway, I guess there are similar "special goodies" available with the other brands as well, so compare them and think well before spending the money.Cheers,Thomas

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 08:25:20 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on April 26, 2019, 06:29:07 amThat's what is called TEA. It's when people buy a bunch of stuff for potential future use. Because "when you need it you need it". I think part of the problem is people like owning things.PS looking at my K2000 which I haven't powered for more than six month... I don't use it just because it's "too good" for the most jobs I do. Probably I should sell it... and buy DMM6500??

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 08:34:14 am
content: Sounds like @ileacristian should buy @exe's Keithley 2000. Mission accomplished!

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 01:22:06 pm
content: Another thing which I really could have used in the past is statistics on DC measurements. Between that and being able to set the integration time, it is possible to make low frequency spot noise measurements.That capability is pretty common now but even better would be statistics of the last 10 seconds of measurements to make 0.1 to 10 Hz spot noise measurements. Besides in-circuit current measurements, that is something I would specifically look for.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 02:34:57 pm
content: i have a recently calibrated 34401a for sale, (special 50$ reduced shipping fees) for eevblog membersBought to many meters loll, need some place.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 02:39:00 pm
content: Quote from: exe on April 26, 2019, 08:25:20 amHaha, well since he wants a bench meter but knows he doesn't need it I figured it has to be about the future. Otherwise he may as well buy the cheapest handheld he can find and use that.

author: ileacristian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 10:29:49 pm
content: Thanks for the many replies!I don't have time right now to reply in detail but I'll get back to some of you.As I see that many of you are very passionate about this topic and since I'm a newbie, could someone make small intro on the big brands/small brands/chinese brands, what they're know for, etc. I understand some changed their name? How do you guys feel about each brand you interacted with? (not really regarding DMMs)A few of you mentioned Keysight a few times. I've seen a LOT of marketing and advertisements from them, giveaways, contests etc. I also saw a bunch of youtubers like electroboom that are sponsored by them. Are they good?

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 12:06:38 am
content: Keysight was formerly known as Agilent which was formerly known as Hewlett Packard and are among the best.Fluke, Keithley, Tektronix are up at the top as wellThen you have more budget minded options such as Rigol and Siglent, both are good, but lack the refinement and some quality as the more typicaly expensive brands above.If you have the budget, cant go wrong with a Keysight 34461a or a Keithley DMM6500. If you dont have the budget, I would recommend a Siglent SDM3045 or SDM3055. This is for new bench DMM's. It would take pages to go over the used market or handheld DMM's.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 01:24:07 am
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 26, 2019, 10:29:49 pmYour experience with particular brands can be different based on your geographic location and who you're interacting with. For example, when my Keysight U1252B had a fault under warranty, Keysight hand delivered a new replacement to me at my office.After some difficulty trying to order replacement buttons for an Agilent power supply, Keysight offered to send an engineer to me to install them (to press on three plastic buttons!). Of course, I declined the offer as it was a bit over the top.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 06:31:44 am
content: Quote from: ileacristian on April 26, 2019, 10:29:49 pmJust above I wrote why brands don't actually matter. Don't make purchase decisions based on a brand name, make decisions on data, numbers and reviews. All companies have good products and bad products.

author: ileacristian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 08:13:13 pm
content: Hello! I'm backI have decided to buy the Keithley DMM6500. The features and UI/touch have convinced me.Thank you all for your suggestions and for taking the time to answer my questions.Here is a pic of my current setup:

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 01:48:55 am
content: Quote from: ileacristian on May 16, 2019, 08:13:13 pmYou went over your $700 budget

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 08:11:47 am
content: Can I suggest that you have a look at the TEA thread - hehe.Really nice meter - a good dmm is probably THE piece of bench test equipment - I think you will use it confident in its results but its good user interface will help you as well.Robert

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 03:43:23 pm
content: Your current setup is looking great! All good choices so far. Enjoy (that is the most important thing)!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 03:56:48 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 24, 2019, 07:19:31 pmI never understood the "cheap" desktop DMM market. They seem way too expensive compared to the big player options. The gap between the budget options and the proper ones is much smaller than it is in the other tool categories.

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 04:01:03 pm
content: https://www.youtube.com/embed/rsRjQDrDnY8

author: ileacristian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 04:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: BillB on May 17, 2019, 04:01:03 pmI think you're right. I need to get rid of the odd ones and replace them with better gear.

author: ColCon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 06:13:50 pm
content: I too am looking for for a bench DMM. Mostly for current measurment. I'm dealing with microcontrollers and 12V motors so I need to measure and log a few mA to a few Amps.Looking at the Omron units, I'm seeing $300 for the 4.5 digits and $400 for the 5.5. Would it just be foolish do you think to go for the 5.5?They both have the same connectivity: RS232, USB, LAN.Thanks for your thoughts,Colin

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 07:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: ColCon on June 04, 2019, 06:13:50 pmI don't think Omron makes DMM's... I know they have industrial automation products which include sensors like ammeters, etc...

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 08:21:00 pm
content: Owon?https://www.eleshop.nl/owon-xdm3051.html

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 09:04:05 pm
content: I have devices for accurate measurement of electrical parameters to, in some cases, 6 digits. Why so precise? In my case, at least, it's partly because I feel the (emotional) need to know my measurements are correct, at least to some known degree. And it's partly because it has become a hobby, a lot of fun, and as some might think, an obsession.Practical value? Again, in my case, no. If my measurements were off even a few percent. I wouldn't have a problem in my circuits. The only exception is frequency measurement so I can be confident with my amateur radio gear being on the 'right' frequency and not violating any FCC regulations.I can also measure temperature to six digits. It's not anywhere near that accurate but does offer me the ability to see miniscule temperature rises. This will find short circuits on PC boards and within complex equipment. Measuring temperature even to one degree accuracy is challenging, and of course there is always some gradient to confuse.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 12:27:32 am
content: Quote from: ColCon on June 04, 2019, 06:13:50 pmDetermine how much resolution you want/need to see. For example, if your motor is typically drawing 1 A and the meter has a 1 A range, do you need to see a 1 mA change? A 3.5-digit DMM (1.000) could potentially pick that up, though depending on how stable the last digit is, it might bounce around more than would be useful. It should be stable for logging change in the tens of mA, though. A 4.5-digit meter (1.0000) should be stable for single-digit mA changes, since it could resolve down to tenths of a mA. A 5.5-digit meter (1.00000) would be down to hundredths of a mA.

author: ColCon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 03:17:24 pm
content: That's helpful. Thank you.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 03:37:21 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on April 25, 2019, 03:32:22 pmMaybe because it's a rebadged Picotest M3510A with reduced resolution and accuracy but at higher price. And likely it's made by Array anyway.

author: ColCon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 04:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: The Soulman on June 04, 2019, 08:21:00 pmYes OWON sorry.OWON XDM3041 Multimeter 4 1/2 Digit Multifunction Dual-Display USB / RS232 / LAN Support Thermocouples & RTD Sensors(US Plug)https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07M7P7GD5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_c4-9CbR83NNGP