Does sleep mode take a toll on the life of your computer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 04:17:02 am
content: Hey guys,I know there's a lot of variables and differences between computers, but will running your computer basically 24/7 with a very light load (in sleep mode) have a significant/noticeable effect on the health and operational life of a computer?I have a laptop and I want to use an external monitor as my primary monitor. In which case, I would also use an external keyboard and close the lid on my laptop. I wouldn't be able to switch the power button, but if I kept the computer is sleep mode, then I could just wake it by hitting a key or clicking the mouse. However, I work in a reliability engineering department all day and this makes me cringe a little...but I am curious to hear your thoughts.Thanks,Tim

author: Carl_Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 04:44:04 am
content: Assuming your laptop is set up to go into sleep mode properly, the system is as close to being off as is possible, and being in sleep mode will not cause any significant reduction in life or reliability of the system. The only part of the PC still running in sleep mode is the memory and a bit of power to the processor to maintain its state.There are probably other things that would far outweigh sleep mode as a factor in reliability, like thermal cycling or stress from power cycling (I don't think this is much to worry about either) or cat fur blocking proper ventilation, tripping over the power cord and yanking it off the desk, Mountain Dew spilled in the keyboard, etc.Or most likely, obsolescence due to the passage of time will make you replace it before it dies, especially if it is spending most of its time sitting safely on a desk.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 04:44:48 am
content: Many laptop computers have poorer airflow when closed, and many also radiate significant heat from the keyboard area, which is blocked when they are closed.In most cases the power button doesn't actually switch power, it simply sends an interrupt to the platform (which is always on) telling it to begin the boot process.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 04:50:52 am
content: As a reliability guy, you know that two things negatively affect reliability. Heat and change. Sleep mode reduces heat almost as much as a power off, and changes operatings states almost as much. You are probably in as good a position as any of us to compare those effects to the case where you leave your laptop fully powered.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 05:45:13 am
content: This is the default operating mode of all Apple laptops for at least 10 years. There's really nothing special about it.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 06:56:41 am
content: No issue about having the laptop in sleep mode (I never shut mine down, been so for at least a decade), but I'd also express concerns about operating at "working loads" with a closed lid due to reduced cooling.

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 07:30:40 am
content: We had the closed-lid thermal problem with my boss' laptop on warm days. This Asus just switched of; after looking at the temperature I knew why. So he has to work with an open lid.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 08:48:30 am
content: sleep mode is better than keeping your PC on all the time. There has been many articles about this.For a laptop sleep mode can last 2 days on battery, and the reason is because laptop tends to be open and closed often. Sleep mode is also quicker to boot from than from turned off and laptops tend to be slower because of their smaller hard drives (in the past).

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 10:04:15 am
content: Stating the obvious: make sure it is plugger in all the time. Or the minute power draw will still drain the battery and wear it down. Other than that: your system will be obsolete before any ill effects will show.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 10:13:11 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on August 05, 2016, 04:50:52 am100% agree. I will add to that, dust and humidity.On the point about changes in temperature, itcanmechanically stress components. Not to say it will cause any issues in every case, but it's a possibility. In my experience, I've found that magnetic hard disk drives can be susceptible to damage with long term and repeated power on/off cycles. The platter contracts and expands as it cools and heats up. In my current file server I've had the hard disks running almost non-stop now for about 7 years without issue.In the case of a laptop, I think you'll be fine. They are designed to cop a bit more abuse.Anyone who has ever worked on computers (namely desktop machines) will almost certainly have come across those that when you plug the mains power in (even before hitting the power button) you shit yourself as the PSU dies with an almighty pop and sparks fly out the back of the fan grille. Back when I repaired computers for retail customers, I know that one's got me a few times. I put it down to people not cleaning out their computers and allowing humidity (and corrosion) to set in.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2016, 12:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on August 05, 2016, 04:50:52 amI'm sorry, I think I was a bit misleading. I'm an EE student who worked full time in a reliaibility department this summer and who will work part time during school. So, I'm still pretty new to all of this stuff!Definitely right about heat. It is, by far, the driving factor in reliability. Thermal cycling is not eliminated in sleep mode because the PC still need significantly more power to operate. Thermal cycling is a pretty big deal for solder joint reliaibity, especially on large package chips, and specifically BGAs.But as far as operating temperatures go in sleep mode, the temps on different components of would probably be only a degree or teo above ambient. So in that case, your ambient temperature would probably matter more.Thanks for all of your responses!

author: sidlas
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 04:04:57 am
content: 1: sleep will still consume power2:sleep will take toll to battery3:every time sleep will use different memory addresses,couse not all old sleep ram addresses will be cleared without restart/shutdown(depends on bios and acpi mode)4:after 50 sleeps without restart/shutdown computer may get unresponsive because of clogged memory(depends on bios/acpi/components quality)5:sleep is better then keeping it on all time.like always i can be wrong.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 04:20:06 am
content: I have two computers in daily use and I never turn them off or have them "go to sleep". One is for entertainment and one is for work. About every 3 years or so I replace the entertainment computer with something better, make the old one into the work computer, and put the old work computer in the closet. Only rarely does something actually break and I now have a closet full of old but functional computers.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 04:46:04 am
content: Quote from: sidlas on August 06, 2016, 04:04:57 amI'd have to disagree with you there. I find sleep mode (even on decent machines) causes more problems than it's worth. I find you're better off just leaving it running or shut it down completely.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:50:22 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 06, 2016, 04:20:06 amI sell the old ones, even for cheap there's always someone who can make better use of them than my closet does.Quote from: Halcyon on August 06, 2016, 04:46:04 amFor desktop PCs yeah, always had issues with standby and for me it's either on or off. Laptops, last time I had standby issues was probably 10-15 years ago. Hardware is "in control" vs a desktop PC you assemble with random components, and manufacturers are aware they have to make that work right if they don't want to be shot down in flames.Apple machines do particularly good there (both laptops and desktops). A <3-4 year mac laptop can last a month in standaby on battery.Quote from: Ice-Tea on August 05, 2016, 10:04:15 amLithium batteries age whether they're cycled or not, and best for storage is actually not to keep them full but around 50-60%. For a laptop that's not practical, so the best is just to use it in whatever way you're using it and not bother about it. Whatever you do it will die eventually and nothing you do will affect when significantly enough to be worth bothering.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:44:54 pm
content: My most recent laptop has a "battery protection" option in the power management. If the laptop is to be mostly plugged in it only charges the battery to the optimum 50-60%. Great if you want your battery to last longer, not so great if you forget to give it a full charge when you take it somewhere.It is kind of an interesting philosophical question. Is it really a benefit to maximize battery longevity on a computer that doesn't normally use its battery?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:12:15 pm
content: QuoteEh? That's new to me. Got some literature on that? Wouldn't mind to catch up on current affaires...

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 10:17:57 pm
content: Most any battery manufacturer will post their specs. Panasonic used to have an nice app note that many people referenced. IIRC you loose ~10-20% per year. 10% if you store them partly charged, %20 if you have a poorly designed laptop that heats them up.If your going to use a laptop all day long closed up at least buy a business laptop that was thermally tested running that way.I tend to leave mine running all the time anymore as I have various sync clients or torrent programs running.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 04:30:42 am
content: The laptop I'm typing on right now has been going to sleep almost nightly for six years (sometimes it'll sleep for a few days). The only time it's powered down is for extended time away (e.g., vacation) in order to avoid completely draining the battery. No ill effects, yet. YMMVIt is good to drain the battery to approximately 50% before powering off for long periods of time (a month or longer).

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 03:15:02 pm
content: I think I may have the answer to your questions and concerns.Sleep mode is, as said previously, a low power mode where the screen, disk activity, and any other peripherals are turned off with the CPU being put in a halted state and the memory preserved.This COULD reduce lifespan, but I wouldn't worry about it. This sorta thing really doesn't cause major life limiting with computers.If you are REALLY concerned you could hibernate the computer. This writes all the user memory and important information to the hard disk and turns the computer off. May or may not be a windows only feature however, but if you are using a Macintosh in a professional field, you deserve to be put in a special mental facility.So in short, wouldn't worry, if you want to worry, use hibernation mode.But don't change parts when your hibernated. That can ruin windows.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 03:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on August 05, 2016, 04:17:02 amYour premise is wrong... the laptop does not run while it's in sleep mode.Anyway, the answer to the question is no, it won't have any effect.QuoteWhy not just leave the lid open? Free extra monitor!Or, wire up an external power switch.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 04:02:32 pm
content: I don't think computers necessarily have a lifetime. Sure sometimes capacitors will cause grief, but otherwise they should last a pretty long time (except hard drives).Of course dropping them shortens their life.What really gets them in the dumpster is lack of drivers for newer OS over time (chipsets makers stop making drivers) and this leads to eventual uselessness.Even servers, with 20 or so fans, SCSI drives, noisy as all hell and robust - find the dumpster since even as a file server they end up being too noisy and too hot and with not enough storage for newer apps. A new and tiny SATA box will end up with far more storage and far better performance.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 07:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 07, 2016, 04:02:32 pmEven the newest kernels still have drivers for some rather antiquated hardware.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 07:33:26 pm
content: Cooling is key. That and temp swings in general, if you can keep it running at a stable temp it's better than having it go on and off all the time, for example. Servers stay up 24/7 producing a decent amount of heat but it's constant and that heat is evacuated fast due to the better rack mount front to back airflow design of most cases.I always cringe any time I have to turn off my file server, as especially hard drives don't like being turned on/off. On same note, avoid drives that are programmed to go to sleep. They'll have a greatly reduced life span. It's same with anything else, if you setup your A/C to turn on for 5 minutes and off for 5 minutes it will be worse than one that runs for longer periods then stops for longer periods.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 09:17:09 pm
content: I always have my drives set to turn off after 20 minutes. I have a number of drives that may only be used once a week. Somehow I don't believe they will last longer if I let them spin constantly instead of being turned off 98% of the time.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 09:44:56 pm
content: There isn't a single solution for how best to run hard drives. It depends on how you use them. If most of the time they're unneeded, then turning them off is a logical choice. If they'll be accessed very often, then keeping them running all the time makes sense. Of course, that leaves a gray area. Automatically spinning down after X minutes of inactivity is a convenient way to take care of that gray area as long as your usage model can tolerate the time required to bring the drive back up.One caveat regarding hard drives that run 24x7 is that after running for a long time, they can seize up after being shut off. So, before turning off such a system (e.g., servers), be sure that any important data has been backed up.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 06:18:26 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 07, 2016, 09:17:09 pmYeah if they are occasional used drives it's a different story, probably fine to let them turn off and benefit from reduced power usage. For large data raid arrays and such then it's best to just keep them spinning. I did the mistake of buying "green" drives for a raid array once and it was a disaster. Had to write a script to occasionally do a recursive dir and write output to a file, so it keeps it form going to sleep. Otherwise they would drop out of the raid array one by one.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 12:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 07, 2016, 07:14:01 pmNot really. My previous Gigabyte motherboard (2008-2009 model) had tons of problems because the onboard VGA was no longer supported and wouldn't get along well with an NVidia PCIe card. For some reason the BIOS couldn't turn it off properly. I was able to get through two win10 updates and get it to work reasonably well - but after one of the main updates I got too many blue screens and decided to upgrade the board.I could've dumped the NVidia - or debugged the drivers yet again, but at some point the hassle and compromises are just to much (for me). Of course could've kept Win8 which worked great (but I always update)...

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2016, 09:13:58 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 08, 2016, 06:18:26 amI recall reading an article that the spin-up is when most motor failure occurred but I don't recall the source. If that is indeed the case, short stand-by cycles would harm the drive quite a bit. Perhaps one with clearer info can enlighten us.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 09:41:49 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on August 08, 2016, 12:45:53 pmYour on an electronics forum so you probably have the tools to deal with an on board video chip

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 11:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on August 10, 2016, 09:13:58 pmYeah it does make sense to me, I don't know of any data to back it up though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on August 05, 2016, 05:45:13 amActually, of all Apple laptops since forever (specifically, 1991, when the first PowerBook was released). They've always had sleep mode, and it's always been heavily used by users. It's actually only recently that it's changed, with newer MacBook models having a deep sleep mode (almost but not quite a classic hibernation/sleep-to-disk) that it automatically enters after many hours asleep -- that's how they now get 30 days battery life in sleep mode.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 12:48:30 pm
content: today the most fragile part of a computer is the hard drive.in 25+ years of computer servicing, the most frequent part you change is the hard drive.each hard drive is given for a certain number of mean working hours (MTBF)so if you put your hard drive to sleep each time you can, then you will raise your hard drive "real" life.sleeping has almost no effect on mother boards life, but does have a certain effect on hard drives.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2016, 09:20:01 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 15, 2016, 12:35:04 pmmost laptop laptop at all has had it since then, I remember "sleeping" windows 3.1 for pen computing on my 486 GRiD notebook. It worked all the way through windows 2000 then XP broke that feature.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2016, 10:22:17 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on August 15, 2016, 12:48:30 pmI will add, thougha) especially on laptops, hard drives go to sleep independently of the computer, and will do so many times a dayb) laptop hard drives are specifically designed to handle very high numbers of sleep cycles (amounts that would kill a server drive)c) despite MTBFs, actual drive longevity studies show no real correlation between power-on hours and drive longevity. Drives left running 24/7 in servers without sleep do just as well as those allowed to sleep. The fundamental quality characteristics of the drive model define the longevity more than anything else.With all that said, kripton's statement about HDDs being the most frequently replaced component completely 100% agrees with my experience in the computer industry. I am so glad to see us moving to SSD!