Altium Designer or Eagle? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 12:41:10 am
content: I started a job working at an electronics company that works mainly in mixed signaling and i was given a licence for Altium Designer v13.1.2 and was given the option to use either that or eaglei have been using eagle for YEARS (well 6 years ... but im 21 thats a long time XP) and know it a fair bitlooking around it appears as if people used both and no one in upper management told me what they would prefer me to use!is Altium worth relearning everything? or should i just stick with eagle?it looks like i will mostly be starting off working with SMPS design or something of the sort ... tho im still going threw schooling in in class we use eagle and at home i have a professional version of eagleby any chance do you know if altium comes in russian without paying extra and having all the files open-able in the english language version?thanks guys!PS: please no fighting ... im not after what has the biggest and most militant fan base ... if i want to see people punching them selves over a form post i would have mentioned my preferred MCU platform XP

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 12:53:11 am
content: Altium is much more powerful and nicer to use. I would avoid using it for free/open hardware projects personally, as it's a huge barrier for others to build on your projects, but for commercial work I think it's well worth the effort.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 01:54:00 am
content: thanks!and yes all my personal projects are open and ill use eagle for that no matter if it takes a little longer to make it easier for othersbut would you recommend learning it for work?does it produce neater results with less effort?are the library's as extensive / library builder as nice?OH how about this feature i heard off handed on kcad where you can convert a datasheet to package?!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 01:59:37 am
content: Altium beats Eagle hands down. Not even in the same category.For your needs, both will get the job done, so that point is rather moot.But I would take the opportunity to learn a proper package like Altium that's widely used in the industry.Eagle is essentially hobby level stuff, and doesn't look nearly as good on the resume.Do it for that reason alone.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:07:46 am
content: Thanks dave!i installed it and licensed it and played around with it ... its a major change and will take lots of getting used to but you convinced me its worth the time but i can assume they have every video i need to master this thing!

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:12:51 am
content: I have used Eagle for years like you (7 years now) but it is sorely lacking in advanced features. I am doing 6layer fast-ish digital in Altium and it just beats the hell out of Eagle.It does have somehwat of a learning curve but it comes with a huge amount of extra power (design rules using regex, priority, etc) not to mention routing and accomodations for fast digital/rf.For simple stuff? Doesn't matter, learn it anyway. I dread going back to eagle to maintain designs i've already done in it

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:45:26 am
content: WOW! played arround with it for just a few minutes and FPGA programming, circuit simulation, VHDL, i can send PCBs right to my router, ARM programming .... and lots more!!!Dave should really do a video on this! ... granted lots of people might be pissed at him recommending a tool that costs an arm and a leggranted lots of people get pissed everytime the word "pic" or "avr" is used XD

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:51:17 am
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 06, 2013, 03:45:26 amI used to work for Altium.Don't get seduced by the FPGA stuff, circuit simulation, or embedded stuff, it's great on the surface, but dig deeper and try to do something out of the box or support new devices and you'll "come-a-gusta" as they say. Hardly anyone in the industry uses Altium for any serious FPGA or embedded use, much to Altium's disgust, because they bet the entire company on it 10 years ago and they failed.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:59:09 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 06, 2013, 03:51:17 amAh damn but its still nice to have ... tho most of my time will be spent learning the CAD!thanks again mate!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:41:10 pm
content: Altium = proper CAD software. , actully EDA : electronic design assitantEagle = glorified pencil/eraser/paper replacement.That's about where they sit...

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 04:20:18 pm
content: been playing arround with it for hours now ... its nice but its library system is a pain and its search is practically useless even after downloading tons of libraries that were not built in :/not a confident start but ... im sure ill figure it out im still sticking with this%-B

author: Arp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 10:07:59 pm
content: From what I've read, designing your own components is pretty simple, and compared to Eagle, with only a few hours experience with Altium, it seem's like a legitimate claim. Eagle can be narly to work withFound this video:

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 11:02:37 pm
content: Anything would be an improvement. I really dislike the way EAGLE handles library components and building your own components.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 02:12:39 am
content: With Altium, I find building new schematic components very quick. PCB components can take longer, especially if you want it accurate, detailed and 3D.I've tried Eagle a couple of times over the last couple of years (just to see what it was like) and wanted to scream. Was deleted off my PC quickly each time.

author: daveatol
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 02:24:43 am
content: For the basic schematic capture and PCB layout, it seems to take longer to learn to use Eagle than Altium. Altium truly is a breeze to learn and as stated by others is the accepted professional package.Unfortunately all the versions I used at work and the last demo copy I (and others) used have serious bugs (rotating all multipart components on quiet annotate, destroying PCB libraries by moving all silkscreen to infinity), hopefully fixed in the current release. The component libraries were years behind the market (I think this may have been addressed more recently though).

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 03:04:46 pm
content: Thanks you guys!im still trying to figure out how to get and find components faster than selecting the library, finding the component ... but im learning this software fast with some remapping!i swear this is the only forum where i actually get helpful people XP

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 03:27:50 pm
content: Install the libraries. Then the search panel can navigate. It has realtime filtering.Easiest way to 'install'Open a schematic.P-P ( place part. Hit the letter p on keyboard for place menu , hit it again for part submenu. Altium keyboard shortcuts are very intuitive.. Pp place part pw place wire, pn place net , sa select all , xa exclude all , si select inside so select outside ... And so on... Spacebr rotates objects.Pp . A little window opens. This is your mru (most recent used). Top right there is a browse button. Hit that. A larger search box opens. Top right of that search box is ( you can dock this search box permanently .. More on that later ) a button with three dots on it. Click that. This shows the list of installed libs. You can add them there. Make sure they have a checkmark on them or the lister will not search in them. ).Done.To dock the library browser. When in a schematic. Look at the bottom status bar. Bottom right there are a few lables. System , sch , pcb and so on. Click sch and select library browser. It will now dock left of the screen automatically.Another feature that very few people know.If you are in place mode , you can clone a part by pointing at it and hitting the insert button on the keyboard.Lets say you already placed a few capacitors and resistors and now you need to place another capacitor , of which you already have one on the sheet. The last part you placed was a transistor.. No need to goescape escape, find the cap , select it... Simply move the cursor over the capacitor already on screen. Hit insert. Presto. Altium understood you needed one of those...Altium is not a tool you learn in a day on your own.... This software has a lot of history behind it and a lot of development. You can learn the basics in about an hour if someone sits down with you and shows you the basics.Keep an eye on the status bar. If you are in the middle of a command the statusbar will have scrolling messages in it. Read those. They tell you what you can do at this point in time..

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 02:57:36 am
content: I got a job solely because I was proficient with Altium. I don't have the ability to have a go at Cadence Allegro, so I'll likely never get to put that on my resume until I work for a company that uses it.I find Eagle to be slightly amateurish and much less efficient.

author: fake-name
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 09:00:07 am
content: Quote from: David_AVD on April 07, 2013, 02:12:39 amThe trick to producing good 3D models is to not use altium for them.If you have it, SolidWorks isExcellent. You draw up the part model, export as a STEP file, and import into the Altium library.Also, many manufacturers provide .STEP files for their parts, particularly for unusual connectors.Last,http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/is a good resource for generics (DIP, SOIC, capacitors, resistors, whatever). It's free (you have to sign up, though), and you can download models as .STEP files which you can import directly into an altium library.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 09:49:28 am
content: I have gotten quite a few 3D models from there. You need to be careful though as some of them are not correct. Just today I found that the model for an NTC surge protector was mirror reversed (legs in wrong place).

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 02:41:46 pm
content: I use rhino3d to make and manipulate step files. Grab from 3dcontentcentral, scale , warp ,add , subtract, whatever. Drawing 3d with the built in tools is a snap.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 03:05:51 pm
content: Honestly, is Altium that much better than Eagle for things that Eagle can do? There is a yearly student subscription of AD available, but I don't do BGA escape routing and advanced FPGA stuff, etc. I'll probbaly stick with Eagle anyways just because it works well for me, but I thought I'd get some different opinions.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 03:15:30 pm
content: yes it is. eagle is a glorified pencil / paper and eraser. just like many other cad packages (even autocad ).altium is up there with the solidworkswhat i'm getting at is that eagle and autocad let's you make a drawing. solidworks and altium help you make a drawing and look over your shoulder all the way , telling you what can and cannot be done.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 03:23:54 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 16, 2013, 03:15:30 pmI'm sure SW and Altium are great (I know Altium is), but damn, when you put it that way.... *shudder*

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 10:40:12 pm
content: Are there any cheaper (say $200) 3D manipulation software out there that's usable? I'd have a use for it occasionally, but can't really justify spending $1000+ for it.For example (as mentioned above), I found a 3D model for an NTC, but it's "back to front" in a way that I can't correct in Altium.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 10:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on April 16, 2013, 10:40:12 pmCan't get cheaper than "FreeCAD An Open Source parametric 3D CAD modeler"http://www.freecadweb.org/

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 10:57:27 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on April 16, 2013, 10:50:04 pmThank you. Downloading now to check it out.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:19:46 am
content: Quote from: olsenn on April 16, 2013, 03:05:51 pmI use Eagle for my boards... but I find it to be a bit of a joke really. I just don't do enough schematic/PCB layouts to justify the investment in Altium or something higher end. I don't do very intensive work, but even for the stuff I do, I find Eagle to have some ridiculous limitations. Like... (until recently), no arbitrary shapes for pads or multiple pins per pad. And the drawing tools are horrible, second only to the import tools. I could draw a complex layout in AutoCAD but importing splines almost never works - huge PITA. I had a board once where I wanted to do a crosshatch ground pour at a 45 degree angle to the rest of my board... Eagle can't do it. Had to rotate my board and all components 45 degrees, then use a "normal" ground pour. Stuff like that is just so silly - a lot of the Eagle faithful will tell you that the program is very comprehensive and offer workarounds for various problems. But I shouldn't have to implement a kludge to get basic PCB layout functionality working. Eagle is so full of kludges now that trying to get it close to in line with real PCB layout programs must be a monumental chore for the programmers.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:38:51 am
content: I'm basically a hobbyist, though I've designed at least one board that was professionally manufactured. I use EAGLE. I *LIKE* EAGLE. I don't really understand the complaints about it, but then I've never used a more professional package.That said, I don't think that there is any doubt that if you're given a choice between EAGLE and ALTIUM, you should choose Altium. It's just a higher class of tool; like Adobe Illustrator vs Microsoft Paint, or Postscript vs HPGL... Of course, you PAY for that; Altium's starting price is 3 times Eagles most expensive version. But if someone else is paying; there's no contest.

author: Frantone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:06:27 am
content: I am still using Protel 99 - the predecessor to Altium. I know this dates me quite a bit, and I would love to upgrade, but considering the $2,300-$5,400 investment for the new Altium I think I will continue to make do with the old grey mare for a while!

author: Randall W. Lott
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:15:39 am
content: Quote from: Frantone on April 17, 2013, 01:06:27 amI use Altium 6.9 at work and even that is daunting compared to 10+. It's still better than Eagle!

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 08:00:16 am
content: Eagle is crap. DipTrace is much better in that tier. And they have surpassed Eagle despite being like a 3 times younger company than Cadsoft.Think Eagle vs Altium = Paint vs Photoshop = MS Sound Recorder vs Audiacity = DOS vs Windows 7 = 8051 vs AMD Piledriver = Nokia 3310 vs Galaxy S4

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:41:08 pm
content: Quote from: Frantone on April 17, 2013, 01:06:27 amWhat version of windows are you running it under? I hear there are some problems with editing libraries if you run it in Win7

author: tskwara@mac.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:39:54 pm
content: From 1994-2003 I used Eagle for very small PC board designs, typically single layer 1" diameter circular analog boards (for sensors). Once I did a 2" diameter board 4 layer board with mixed signal stuff.That was my only exposure to schematic capture / PCB layout software at the time. After some learning, I was proficient and had absolutely no problem with using it. It was mission focused software that got the job done and I was very pleased with the price, as I was paying for it for my own company.Fast forward to 2005-2007 and with my new startup, I decided to go with Altium and paid quite a bit for a seat, and ultimately learned it and was successful with making several boards that were 3" x 5" two-layer mixed signal boards. Altium definitely felt more inline with today's UI methods, however it felt heavy (I really didn't use the advanced features or simulations, FPGA features). Again I paid for it since I owned the company.Now fast forward to today, another new startup. Since I want to make PCB templates available as open source for customers wanting to start their projects with something more that scratch, I'm strongly considering using Eagle again.My dilemma is about whether I should use Eagle for 100% of our work, or buy Altium and Eagle then use Altium for internal development work and Eagle to publish the open source projects that will be made available. Again, I'll be paying for both softwares personally.As a side note, I do use SolidWorks, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Keil-MDK. I only mention this as I don't want to come across as one to use MS-Paint over Photoshop. I have used these pro softwares to a deep extent and take advantage of advanced functionality. Perhaps on the PCB software side, I didn't make enough designs/boards to fully appreciate Altium's advanced feature set.Anyway, helpful commentary is appreciated. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a purchase...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: Frantone on April 17, 2013, 01:06:27 amI stuck to 99se for a long time as well. We (where i work) bought dxp and dxp2004 licences just so we could run 99se. But at one point you need to let go.If you are just doing schematic pcb then 99se werks perfectly fine. It is a very stable version.It has quirks under win7 and especially under 64 bit version.the solution is to run th win xp mode. If you have a pro version of 7 you get a free VM with win xp in it. Simply install it there. Works flawlessly.

author: Frantone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 02:58:57 pm
content: I still run XP on my main computer - too many dedicated XP applications to fudge with the operating system at this point. Protell 99 is buggy - but I know the work-arounds, and I have to constantly make new templates to add to the original libraries for the ever smaller component footprints - but considering costs alone it is still a good program.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 04:56:11 pm
content: Quote from: tskwara@mac.com on April 17, 2013, 01:39:54 pmIf this is a goal, I'd say KiCad is the only responsible and decent option currently. I mean open hardware that requires closed tools is better than nothing, but KiCad is just as viable as EAGLE at this point IMO. And it's cheaper and unlimited.Depending on the complexity of your projects it might be worth having Altium as well for more complex internal jobs you don't intend to release, but that's a call you'll need to judge on your own. Another consideration is efficiency; if your time is very important I think you can work a bit quicker with Altium than the 'budget' or open-source options thanks to how streamlined the workflow is.