Siglent 1202X-E vs Keysight X-Series - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mikepa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 06:39:18 pm
content: I've had my Siglent 1202X-E scope for about three weeks now and while first impressions are good, it's got some quirks which are making me take a look at the Keysight X-Series (Probably EDUX1002A).1202X-E Quirks:1. Keys are overly soft and mushy causing a press not to be registered on occasion and bringing down the quality perception.2. I've had three situations where the scope has frozen and I had to yank the power plug to recover.3. There are some triggering issues that i've been unable to explain - probably will be fixed in the next firmware releaseSo a question for the Keysight owners: How firm or rigid are the keyboard buttons? Are they hard plastic or soft and mushy?I don't really need 200 MHz bandwidth and I can live without serial decode. I can see losing the 14M memory down to 100k may be detrimental, but I'm not sure.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 02:17:10 am
content: Quote from: mikepa on July 09, 2017, 06:39:18 pmThe new FW is not far away. Last week I was told it was out with beta testers.There's a chance all three issues you raise will be fixed with it but ...........mushy keys is a first for me.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 10:46:48 am
content: I've had my 1202X-E for nearly 2 weeks and it's a keeper. It's compact and fits neatly on my bench, it is responsive and intuitive. Some in these forums have criticized various aspects of the Siglent like button 'feel' (whatever that means) and triggering but my experience has been good, especially considering the price; I don't think the buttons are significantly worse than my $10,000 Agilent/Keysight MSO7104B scope, they are still just membrane keypad buttons and I have yet to come across a rotary encoder that doesn't occasionally miss a click - so what?1. I like the 1202X-E buttons well enough2. My 1202X-E has never crashed or frozen3. I have tried to replicate the claimed triggering issues and I can't, it seems to work just fine

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 01:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2017, 02:17:10 amThey are softer material than used on some 'scopes. Harder keys can produce a more tactile 'click', even with a rubber membrane.Just do a comparative 'feel test' between different devices.I haven't noticed any missed key presses, but I am deliberate in pressing them because they are the soft type that can produce misses in my experience. This basically leads to slowed down usage compared to a better material choice. (Economy 'scope doesn't have the best keys? Meh. They have to cut costs somewhere.)

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 01:26:17 pm
content: In terms of knob / button quality, Keysight (Agilent HP) scopes are the best. They feel very solid but not stiff. It varies a little from model to model, but in general, the best I used. I tried Agilent 54622D, EDUX1002G and MSOX2004A.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 02:08:47 pm
content: I have a 1202X (not -E).The power button is squishy and I have to be careful pressing it to have it turn on or off. The power cord doesn't fit well into the scope and I often have to press on it to have it make good contact. Perhaps the lockups are related to a marginal power cord.I have had a few trigger "issues". One I recently encountered was trying to display a slow pulse train. Sometimes it would trigger on the rising edge (as it should have) but it would intermittently trigger on the falling edge. Changing from Auto to Norm trigger mode fixed that.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 05:33:32 pm
content: FWIW, the Keysight 1000 X-Series have pretty good action and give an audible click/thunk when you press the buttons.It's possible that higher memory turns on with the Dave hack, I'm not 100% sure though. Also, it's 100k per channel, so still small but there's not memory dividing going on.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 06:32:26 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on July 10, 2017, 05:33:32 pmWith Dave's hack on EDUX units, you get the memory upgrade (1M points) and many additional features (Segmented memory, 2GSa/s, Mask test). With additional hardware mods, you can get it to a full DSOX1102 unit. The CONS: you lose the warranty and does not pass user calibration and self test (but it is reversible, just remove the Dave hack temporarily, calibrate, then re-implement)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 08:25:06 pm
content: Quote from: Tom45 on July 10, 2017, 02:08:47 pmRepetitive signals are easy to get stable triggering on, pulse trains, not always as easy.There's a few methods/tricks available.Holdoffor the several user adjustments that can be made in thePulsetrigger menu.Serialtriggering has further options to get stable triggering.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 09:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2017, 08:25:06 pmWell in this case it was a GPS 1 pps signal. It doesn't get much more repetitive than that. I was just using the scope to verify that the GPS had locked. So the random triggering on the falling edge wasn't a real problem, just a curiosity that I wanted to understand.I can't say that I really understand what was going on though. In Auto trigger mode I wouldn't be surprised for it to auto trigger if it had been long enough since the last trigger, but that should have been fairly random. Yet the falling edge of the pulse fell exactly on the trigger line in the middle of the screen. The sweep rate was 200 msec/div. so each sweep took some time. The majority of the sweeps had the rising edge on the trigger line. But sometimes it was the falling edge.As stated earlier, Norm trigger mode fixed it. I tend not to use Auto trigger mode so the trigger mode wasn't the first thing I looked for.

author: mikepa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 10:11:53 pm
content: Thanks TK, does the Dave's hack you mention involve swapping out SMD resistors? If so, is this hack well baked now, or still in development?(If I may say so, I've been very impressed by your skills in modifying the EDU board to match the DSO board.)

author: mikepa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 10:26:59 pm
content: FWIW, as much as I abhore beeping button pushes, I found turning the beep on gives the feedback needed to be more confident in the button presses.I never thought the buttons would be a big deal, but I find the lack of any tactile feedback from the buttons to be disconcerting. I wonder if all Siglent buttons are like this? Both my Instek function generators, for instance, have tactile feedback buttons.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 10:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: mikepa on July 11, 2017, 10:11:53 pmThe Dave hack involves just swapping out 2 SMD resistors (size 603). To avoid unsoldering / soldering the same pair of resistors multiple times (whenever you need to get back to EDU mode), I changed the values so I can just add 2 more resistors in parallel to be in DSOX mode and remove this extra pair from the existing resistors to get back to EDUX... I think mikeelectricstuff posted this method... or maybe it was a different member, I don't remember.The most difficult part of matching the DSO board is soldering the WSON package ICs. And had help from other forum members identifying the low pass filter capacitor and inductor values. The rest of the components are mostly passive and they are marked very well and Dave posted very nice high resolution pictures of the DSOX1102G model.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 01:23:46 am
content: Quote from: mikepa on July 11, 2017, 10:26:59 pmIn all their DSO's, yes.Just as you may think it's a big deal I would too if they were firmer than they are.Can I say they are just different than what you are used to, just like how a new car might seem strange at first.Now do you get on with touch screens like on mobile phones and tablets ?I personally have zero need for tactile FB, nearly every button on the keypad offers visual FB on the display and this is what I'm looking for as I drill into the menus to obtain the settings I need. (think about this)Yes, the beeper can give audio FB and just like you I hate it but the units come with the beeper turned on so I leave them all like that for dispatch. (I check every unit)For my personal units the beeper is always off.