moisture and electronics - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 04:59:32 pm
content: If I have electronics stored in an anti-static zip bag and this bag inside a shoe box has any way to escape the accumulation of moisture inside the box and inside the bag?the anti-static zip bag I left open for better air circulation

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 05:12:59 pm
content: If you leave the bag open, of course moisture can accumulate. If you seal the bag, make sure first that you do it in a dry environment else you will trap moisture.That's why silica gel is used, to absorb moisture that can corrode electronics.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 05:24:31 pm
content: If you are paranoid about the level of moisture you could put your electronics inside a sealed bag, together with a moisture indicator like cobalt chloride paper and freshly baked silica gel (just leave it in the oven @150°C for a few hours).Btw, why would those components need air circulation? Just close the bag (or use a ziplock bag) and you are good to go (as long as you don't store it in your shower).

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 05:51:24 pm
content: I put 3 sachets of silica gel inside the box but I did not put 1 sachet of silica inside the antistatic zip bag because there is not enough space for the sachet so the bag stays open outside the bag is the box with the 3 sachets of silicaelectronics inside that open bag zip antiestatic and that bag inside the shoe box and inside the box has 3 silica gel sachets protects from moisture?

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 06:05:18 pm
content: Silica gel bags only work in (nearly) airtight containers... Get yourself a big ziplock bag, put your antistatic bag AND the silica gel in and then close it. Btw, silica gel is absolutely useless after 3-4 days in open air so you have to heat those bags for a few hours if you want to use them (i don't know if the paper packaging of the silica gel can handle the heat so you have to get creative).

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 06:15:08 pm
content: I used a ziplock bag some time ago with 3 sachets of blue silica gel inside the zip and I realized that moisture was entering because the sachets saturated they turned pink and after that I was suspicious of the ziplock bags because if they let the moisture in and the sachets saturate the moisture gets stuck inside the zip is worse for the electronics if I put the 3 sachets inside the shoe box will it not look like airtight? without silica gel, no store tip prevents moisture accumulation?

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 07:20:54 pm
content: Closing the box makes no difference. The box must be airtight. Sealed.The contents must be shielded from moisture entering via air pressure (water vapor) and the silica gel inside the enclosure will absorb the little moisture that is left. Any leaks and all your efforts are wasted.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 09:04:47 pm
content: I will buy new ziplock bags at Alixpress and I will also buy new silica gel sachets but before that what is your recommendation for me to store these electronics with the minimum possible risk of moisture going to the electronics? today I put them in a common bag and anti-static bag with zip (bag with hole) the bags I leave them open (air exchange) and I put these bags inside a closed shoe box inside the box has 3 sachets of 2g of silica gelI will wait 2 months to receive the package

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 09:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 28, 2020, 06:15:08 pmCommon polyethylene bags are pretty permeable. Try metalized Mylar or polyester bags which are gas tight which is why they are used for foods which would be affected by oxygen and water vapor.The above is why naphthalene moth balls cannot be packaged inside polyethylene; it just lets the naphthalene diffuse out.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:04:03 pm
content: I bought this ziplock bag but it will only arrive in two months so I want to preserve this electronic part that I mentioned as storing ithttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32926129492.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.1d8e26dfAUM6I0this bag is good and waterproof?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:31:38 pm
content: Waterproof is one thing. Water vapour/moisture proof is entirely different.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:35:44 pm
content: I want to protect electronics from moisture that causes corrosion, and I want an opinion on this ziplock from aliexpress link above

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on June 28, 2020, 09:51:54 pmThe polyester bags are normally sold as "freezer bags" in the grocery store. They will do an adequate job blocking moisture ingress if fully sealed.I am a little skeptical about the idea that silica gel is useless after 3 days in air. If you want to fully absorb all moisture leaving the contents of the bag totally dry, that's one thing. But the usual concern is not moisture, it's condensation. During daily temperature cycles, the dew point changes leading to a cycle of H2O in liquid and vapor phases (like in a terrarium). Silica gel can absorb enough moisture to stabilize the humidity and prevent outright condensation.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:48:54 pm
content: I will repeat as I am storing my electronics, it is inside an anti-static zip bag with some holes the bag is open to the moisture not stuck and the bag is inside a closed shoe box inside the box I also put 3 sachets of 2g of silica gel how many days will these 3 silica gel sachets protect everything inside the box?When you don’t have silica, zip bags etc. do you have a day to protect against moisture and prevent condensation?this is PE Zip lock bag from aliexpress link good or bad? two months for him to come to my house

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 11:12:07 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 28, 2020, 10:48:54 pmThere is no easy answer. It depends how fast the silca gel absorbs moisture and how much moisture is in the air.I don't live in a particularly humid environment but I found even the 40g units I have are saturated within a few days (initially at least). I used to use these "reusable"silica gel packs in aluminium cansfor storing camera lenses in Pelican cases. Once saturated, you can "reactivate" them by baking them in a 150 degree C oven for a few hours.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 11:13:54 pm
content: When you don’t have silica, zip bags etc. do you have a day to protect against moisture and prevent condensation?this is PE Zip lock bag from aliexpress link good or bad? two months for him to come to my house

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 11:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: helius on June 28, 2020, 10:39:57 pmThe freezer bags I have seen were all just thicker polyethylene.Do a search for "Mylar metalized zip lock" and you will find lots of suitable bags.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 11:25:22 pm
content: Mylar metalized zip lock are very expensive I would like to purchase many units but it is unviable I would have to cancel the purchase of the PE Zip lock bag 0.12mm from AliexpressWhen you don’t have silica, zip bags etc. do you have a day to protect against moisture and prevent condensation?

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 08:26:50 am
content: Quote from: helius on June 28, 2020, 10:39:57 pmI use desiccants for my work all the time (i need ppm levels of moisture for some stuff) and even good quality silica gel with an indicator gets discolored after a few days in open air, so crappy chinese stuff will probably last a bit longer (as it is just not that good ad adsorbing moisture) but i won't give it more than a week (and you need a lot of it, i usually use ~20g per litre of air). There are much better desiccants than silica gel available (namely phosporous pentoxide), but they are more difficult to handle (the pentoxide gets converted to liquid, highly concentrated acid) and silica is absolutely fine for most jobs.@micksmelanie: You don't need an absolutely airtight container for your parts, so good quality ziplocks (or jam jars) are fine. If you however want to have a container that is guaranteed to be absolutely airtight you might want to look at Schott laboratory glass bottles, but that will set you back 50 bucks for a 1l flask.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 09:45:10 am
content: Inside the shoe box I put 3 sachets of 2g silica gel but it’s not airtight and I don’t know how many days the silica will resist. I put the 3 sachets last WednesdayHelp me find the best method of storage and protection from moisture condensation when there is no ziplock and no silica gelI saved the video game cartridge inside the antistatic bag and left the bag open because there is no space to put silica inside and this antistatic bag I put inside a closed shoe box with 3 silica sachets inside the box

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 11:59:18 am
content: If you are looking for cheap, (semi-) airtight containers you might want to look at tupperware/icecream boxes. You don't need a fancy high end solution, your parts wont cease to function if they are exposed to a little bit of humidity. As long as you don't pack the components while you're showering you will be fine.If you don't want to use silica gel (or any other desiccant) you have to get rid of the moisture that is still inside the container. A good way to do this would be to heat the container to 75 °C for 6-12h before you put anything in (although that is really not necessary for your use). Btw, if your container is airtight you only need the silica to get rid of the initial moisture, so you only need a small amount (a few grams).(The absolute best solution would be to put your electronics inside a Schott laboratory glass bottle while everything is inside a glovebox that actively removes moisture, that way you can store it for years at sub-ppm levels of humidity. Is this a practical solution? Absolutely not.)

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 12:05:33 pm
content: I store my video game cartridge inside an open anti-static bag, this open anti-static bag is inside a closed shoe box and inside that box I put 3 silica gel sachets inside the box and will the bag condense moisture and damage the cartridge? what can i improve for two months i receive in my home silica gel and ziplock bag?

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 06:51:38 pm
content: up

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 08:45:12 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 29, 2020, 12:05:33 pmCondensation happens when temperature (or pressure) differences lead to air being unable to "hold" moisture (hot/humid air becomes cold/dry air, so most of the moisture will condensate at the coldest area). So it depends where that box is, which temperature swings the container will be subject to and which temperature your parts have if you want to avoid them actually getting wet and corrode. It might be better to store them pretty much open inside a home, as the construction and wood furniture itself buffers humidity to some extent, while the anti static bag buffers nothing. If the building wouldn't, it would become moldy pretty quick.Some desiccants do not only saturate and are useless afterwards, they might as well buffer the humidity and extend the range before condensation will visibly happen depending on the amount of air (and therefore absolute humidity). Ofc they are more capable to do so when dry.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 09:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 28, 2020, 05:12:59 pmNot quite. You need to think about relative humidity.If the bag is sealed, the number of water molecules remains constant. Whether they are in solid, liquid or gaseous form depends on the temperature. The temperature at which they condense into liquid depends on the relative humidity and temperature when the bag was sealed.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 10:08:08 pm
content: naturally ventilated room has any influence on the humidity condensation inside the shoe box and inside the open anti-static bag that is inside that box? I don't know about humidity in my situation

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 10:49:56 pm
content: If your container isn’t airtight, there’s little sense in using desiccant.I don’t know why you think you need air circulation. They’re not animals that need air. It’s totally OK (or even desirable) to have a sealed bag with desiccant inside. It will absorb any moisture in the air inside the bag and hold onto it. You want this. You don’t want new, moist air coming in.The shoe box will help keep dust away, but has no impact on humidity, long term.Just buy the metalized zip lock anti static bags (they are NOT expensive) and put your gadget and some desiccant packs inside. If you really want optimal long-term storage, use a vacuum sealer to draw out the air and heat seal the bag.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 12:44:10 am
content: the reason I keep the antistatic bag open is because I don’t trust it very much it appears to have holes but if I close it with silica inside it will saturate the moisture it will continue to enter and the moisture will get stuck in the bagthe shoe box and the bags inside the box are not airtight in this case have any tips to avoid maximum humidity and condensation?i bought this ziplock bag and silica gel and i wait 2 monthshttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32926129492.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7b01b90aEbRgh7

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 03:56:01 am
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 30, 2020, 12:44:10 amUhhh.... what? That doesn’t make sense. Once silica gel is saturated, it simply stops absorbing water. It won’t magically attract water into the bag. If you close the bag with the silica gel inside, the silica gel will get saturated less quickly than with an open bag.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 03:59:00 am
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 30, 2020, 12:44:10 amThe only advice is to put the things inside an airtight container, be it a food container or another bag.You know you can go to any pound shop or grocery store and buy zip bags? And any stationery shop will have small zip bags like you’re waiting on.Still, you should really order some metalized antistatic bags. They are not expensive on eBay.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 10:26:18 am
content: If it is not airtight then will any electronics quickly corrode the board?it has big devices like CRT 29 "TV that is impossible to put in airtight environment and other devices have to leave the airtight and be used once a month to avoid causing problems in the electrolytic capacitorsthe ziplock PE bag 0.12mm is a useless bag and did I make a wrong purchase? I need a lot of units so the metallized zip on Aliexpress and ebay is very expensive for Brazilthe storage of my cartridge and some electronics is inside a common bag or anti-static bag both open bags and these open bags inside a closed shoe box on top of the cabinet this type of storage is very harmful due to moisture and condensation corroding the board in short deadline?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 04:24:30 pm
content: You have to be careful about airtight containers because some things will out-gas corrosive chemicals. It is one thing to have groups of parts sealed inside airtight containers but another to have whole assemblies.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 11:49:34 pm
content: What things produce corrosive gas while being airtight?it has big devices like CRT 29 "TV that is impossible to put in airtight environment and other devices have to leave the airtight and be used once a month to avoid causing problems in the electrolytic capacitorsthe ziplock PE bag 0.12mm is a useless bag and did I make a wrong purchase? I need a lot of units so the metallized zip on Aliexpress and ebay is very expensive for Brazilthe storage of my cartridge and some electronics is inside a common bag or anti-static bag both open bags and these open bags inside a closed shoe box on top of the cabinet this type of storage is very harmful due to moisture and condensation corroding the board in short deadline?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 02:03:49 am
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 30, 2020, 11:49:34 pmThe one I have run across was coaxial cable. The cable itself was fine but when concentrated, whatever it outgassed was pretty corrosive when concentrated in an air tight container over a long time.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 01:35:35 pm
content: "WARNING to ALL"...Read hisother'posts'...Thou art having 'Pisseth' inserted in 'ones'ears!!!He/she reminds me of someone on 'Quora' that wasted a lot of people's time.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 02:33:28 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 01, 2020, 01:35:35 pmHmmm. Given his moniker, flag (UK), reference to where he lives (myemphasis),Quote from: micksmelanie on June 30, 2020, 11:49:34 pmand some phrasesQuote from: micksmelanie on June 27, 2020, 11:13:25 amand the number of new threads he's started since joining 5 days ago (26th June).....there may be something to your contention.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 12:24:32 am
content: it has big devices like CRT 29 "TV that is impossible to put in airtight environment and other devices have to leave the airtight and be used once a month to avoid causing problems in the electrolytic capacitorsthe ziplock PE bag 0.12mm is a useless bag and did I make a wrong purchase? I need a lot of units so the metallized zip on Aliexpress and ebay is very expensive for Brazilthe storage of my cartridge and some electronics is inside a common bag or anti-static bag both open bags and these open bags inside a closed shoe box on top of the cabinet this type of storage is very harmful due to moisture and condensation corroding the board in short deadline?Modify message

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 07:00:49 am
content: Have you got it figured yet? or are people going to go round and round in circles forever telling you about the same response to incessant repeats of the same question?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 08:45:01 am
content: Quote from: Simon on July 03, 2020, 07:00:49 amI suspect the latterA later enthusiasm was summarised:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/question-charger-universal-battery-movel/msg3117218/#msg3117218

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 09:03:51 am
content: You don't want to tell me that you have better things to do than repeat and repeat and repeat everything a gazillion times, do you?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 10:16:39 am
content: Quote from: Ysjoelfir on July 03, 2020, 09:03:51 amI'm not sure who "you" is; you have omitted context.Copy and pasting a question takes ~zero time.Answering it, on the other hand, ...

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 11:12:09 am
content: Off course I meant you, or every other one that wants to be helpfull. Can't immagine that it takes time to create usefull answers?Also: Sarcasm

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 01:47:44 pm
content: I just look for the best way to conserve it when there is no silica gel

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 02:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 03, 2020, 07:00:49 amAnother example of that....Quote from: micksmelanie on July 03, 2020, 01:46:40 pm

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 04:11:15 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 03, 2020, 01:47:44 pmHow about pasteurizing it, then! 😂

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 04:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on June 30, 2020, 12:44:10 amWhy do you buy Ziploc bags from Ali Express when every corner store sells them?

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 07:16:46 pm
content: Does natural ventilation in a room favor humidity and condensation? poorly ventilated places is better?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 07:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 03, 2020, 07:16:46 pm

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2020, 12:32:34 pm
content: Re: 'micksmelanie' (YES, I don;t know why I'm bothering)...This is just a 'Warning' to the UN-anitiated, that HERE, like on the 'Quora' forum, we occasionallyencounter wankers who like to play 'semantics' and THINK they are clever. Unfortunately, theyonly waste the time of the 'knowledgeable' in order to (unbeknownst to themselves) make themselvesappear 'semi' intelligent. Of course, they FAIL miserably, and are of NO consequence.