Metric in Australia  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:40:05 am
content: Not electronics, but I am curious.Just watched a History channel doc on mega machine maintenance.There was a fairly young guy working for Quantas in Brisbane on an Airbus plane.He mentioned how accurate torque settings are required, but used inch pounds as an example.Apart from Airbus using metric I would have though such an industry in Australia would be too.Wondering if this was done specifically as History channel US and that's possibly where main audience is ?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:25:11 am
content: I don't know the answer on what Airbus uses, but I do know that Quantas flies about 40 Airbus planes and 90 Boeing planes. So any mechanic working for Quantas better be able to handle imperial units.Even if Boeing were to go metric, they'd only do it for brand new designs. Trying to change measurement systems and parts inventories on an existing design, especially one that's still being built, would just be asking for the kind of confusion and mistakes that could get people killed.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:29:04 am
content: My brother used to work in a similar area here in Australia (more as a design engineer though). He said it’s not unusual for standards or documentation to have metres, kilometres, feet, miles, nautical miles, etc all in one document, and sometimes even in the same sentence. Apparently it’s a result of the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mindset in aerospace.

author: gbaddeley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 12:07:55 pm
content: Qantas, folks, there is no U. The techs would be using whatever units are specified in the maintenance manuals. Australia has been metric since the early 1970’s (?) but there are still some cases where inches still prevail. Eg. automotive tyre sizes are inches in diameter but millimetres in width.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 12:21:45 pm
content: If your an engineer, you generally work metric, but occasionally convertIf your a builder, Metric is a norm, but enough grey beards using imperial has kept it mixedIf your a technician, you use what ever units the documentation is printed in,Through my job its generally only people over 55 that use imperial first, metric second,Building supplies are flooded with imperial stuff as its produced in china to sell to as many markets as possible, so while they may list both units,they tend to gravitate to imperial rounded sizes,Agricultural is almost always metric as far as I have seen, hoses and valves being 13 or 25mm instead of 1/2" or 1",Automotive, flat out metric, even american branded trucks tend to use metric fasteners these days.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 12:36:19 pm
content: You are right!! MOST History Chanel stuff, and the like, is aimed towards the (let's face it)majority of U.S. observers. If we, (they), spoke about modern "Newton-Metres" etc., insteadof "Foot-Pounds" etc., then the majority would have no clue what is being talked about !That being said... Here in Australia, we changed over to Metric a LONG time ago, but we canstill go into some hardware stores and find 4" bolts, of say 1/2" diameter. Although our globalBunnings Stores now are virtually totally Metric regarding all Bolts/Screws/Fittings etc.Our Tape-Measures show BOTH still, so as to please everybodyMaps/Distances/Signs were changed literally overnight, on the 14th Feb. 1966 to Kilometres !!....OOPS! Edit.... That was for currency ($). Road Signs changed in 1974 in Australia)....One air-crash at least, occurred overseas once, when Litres were mistaken for Gallons, whena jet ran out of fuel and crashed!! The whole WORLD should be METRIC now !!!It's not a matter of "what one is used to". It's a change for common sense !None of this 12" to a foot. 1760 yards to a mile. 8 pints to a gallon, (hang on, U.S. gallons ??).What could be simpler than say......1000 Metres = 1 Kilometre.1 Litre = 1 Kilogram (of water, at 21-deg-c at sea level..)1 MilliLitre = 1 MilliGram. ....OOPS! Edit... 1 MilliLitre = 1 Gram !!!(of water)1 Cubic Metre of water is a Metric Ton, and is 1000 Litres !!! etc. etc. (of water)How can it possibly be more simple ? !!sigh...

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 01:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 19, 2019, 12:36:19 pmSweden adopted metric in 1876, and we also have both scales on tape-measures, I suspect it has to do with being able to sell the same items in and outside of the USA.

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 01:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: apis on April 19, 2019, 01:13:17 pmNot for the last 30-40 years we haven't. The only times I have seen that is on cheap stuff from China.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 02:44:01 pm
content: Quote from: Gromitt on April 19, 2019, 01:40:05 pmI checked and both my tape-measure and my steel ruler has inches and feet, as do newer "folding carpenters' rulers" (tumstock), but maybe that's because I only buy cheap imported stuff. I do have an older tumstock that is metric only. Maybe it's only the imported ones that use both scales. But that would indicate the imported stuff is intended to be sold on both markets. Plastic rulers for desk use are only metric though.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 03:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 19, 2019, 12:36:19 pmAh ... no. The 14th of February 1966 was when we changed to decimal currency. I know, I was there and I can still hear the jingle in my head.The road sign changeover happened over the month of July, 1974.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 03:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 19, 2019, 12:36:19 pmSometimes you really need a proof reader. (You're not helping the "Metric is wonderful" argument!)

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 04:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: apis on April 19, 2019, 02:44:01 pmI have steel rulers, tape-measures and "tumstockar" that are just mm. I also have older ones (as in 35+ years) that are both mm and inch.

author: plurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 05:07:39 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 19, 2019, 03:55:25 pmDoh - that is another jet crashed - carrying too much weight this time.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 06:39:16 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on April 19, 2019, 12:21:45 pmSome time back, like around '90, I had a Ford Ranger pickup truck. The chassis used SAE fasteners and the driveline used metric. To remove the transmission, I had to use SAE tools to remove the rear cross-member but metric tools to unbolt it from the bell housing.The US should have never let automobiles into the country if they used metric fasteners. It put US mechanics at a competitive disadvantage because we had to buy two toolsets. Good for SnapOn, not so good for mechanics.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 06:53:33 pm
content: I had one of those Rangers too and I remember the mix of metric and imperial.Never seemed like a big deal to me though, I've had a mix of metric and imperial tools for as long as I've had tools. Any decent mechanic is going to need to have both unless they work on *only* one kind of vehicle, and the cost is what, a few grand at most for top notch sockets and wrenches? In most cases much less since you don't really need a full set or top notch of everything. I've had to buy Allen and Torx sockets and wrenches too for cars that use some of those, and various special tools for specific tasks on specific vehicles I've owned or worked on, so what? Suggesting blocking the importation of vehicles over the fastener types they use just makes our mechanics sound like incompetent boobs.As far as torque settings, my torque wrenches have both imperial and metric units on them and I use whatever units are printed in the shop manual. Anyone dumb enough to have difficulty with that is not someone I'd want touching any of my equipment.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 07:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: plurn on April 19, 2019, 05:07:39 pmAw, off by a factor of 1000? Close enough! Also, usually it's not water at 21C that you need to transport. A Liter of Mercury weighs about 13.5 Kilograms.Learning rules of thumb to convert between liquid and weight are acceptable for cooking, but can get dangerous when used elsewhere.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 07:53:16 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on April 19, 2019, 07:22:29 pmSurprisingly often liquids are mostly water with small amounts of other stuff dissolved in it so 1 ml is approximately 1 g, I suppose it depends on what you work with though.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 08:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: apis on April 19, 2019, 01:13:17 pmNope. You have to really hunt for such a beast as a metric tape measure in the US. Everything's double labeled in Spanish, but god forbid they have metric anywhere.

author: //Matt//
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 08:57:17 pm
content: Metric all day long, none of that imperial rubbish!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 19, 2019, 08:04:59 pmI built a small sail boat based on a New Zealand design which was in metric, of course. I had no problem finding dual scale tape measures and my tablesaw already had a dual scale tape. Not a problem!I started working on cars in '61 and we didn't have any of this metric nonsense. Even when I worked for the Mercury dealership back in '68..'69, we still didn't have metric. It wasn't long in coming...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:03:25 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 06:39:16 pmYou should tweet that one to Trump. He could use it in trade negotiations.Edit: Oops, sorry. A bit political.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:14:02 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 09:02:04 pmQuick look at Lowes, 62 tapes. One two pack, one three pack, and one four pack included. Of these, there are two which are dual marked. One in thirty-four is plenty of hunting for the most used measurement system in the world..

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:18:26 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 19, 2019, 08:04:59 pmTape measures are used in carpentry, carpentry uses imperial units exclusively, why would you expect tape measures to have multiple scales? Metric is the most used measurement system in the world yes, but we're not talking about the world, you're shopping for tape measures in the USA which currently uses imperial units for carpentry. The metric scale would just add visual noise in the intended use case and another opportunity for errors to creep in. If we ever get around to adopting metric then metric tape measures will instantly become widely available but currently if you buy any sort of lumber or building materials in the US it will be in imperial units. General purpose rulers on the other hand almost always have metric on one side and have for decades.I don't really see a lot of stuff double labeled in Spanish, maybe certain types of things but more often if there's more than one language in addition to English it will have Spanish, French, German and occasionally others. It's not like Canada where everything is required to be in English and French. We have no such laws here mandating any particular language be used. It's all down to understanding who the customer is.I have no particular attachment to the imperial measurement system and would have been happy to convert to metric decades ago but I don't really have any problem using it either. The UK still uses miles, do you take issue with the fact that speed limit signs having both MPH and KPH are not commonplace?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2019, 09:18:26 pmYou should check the context of my comment.Also, youdidadopt metric. Decades ago. Nobody bothered to use it because it was too much of a good idea.Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2019, 09:18:26 pmIf they'd just gone ahead and changed the signs at the time it'd be fine. People now are too stupid.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:35:45 pm
content: We did not adopt metric. We use it for some things but officially speaking the US still uses imperial units. The reasons for this are widely varied, some of it is people too stubborn to change to something new and different, some of it is just momentum, it would cost vast sums of money to completely change all of our manufacturing structure, machine tools, threads, fittings and everything in the supply chain from one unit to another so this has delayed adoption.Either way even the most metric-adopted countries I've visited still have imperial units lurking here and there. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to completely change everything over and that can mean that there is no net gain in changing even when it is widely agreed that the new system is superior. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, even though I personally agree that metric is a vastly superior system in most ways I also have no trouble at all using imperial measurements and I really don't care whether some things change or not. Give me a temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius, a measurement in inches or millimeters, kilometers or miles, it doesn't matter, I know what they all mean and can translate them roughly in my head on the fly. As long as the tools I'm using have units that match the materials or equipment I'm working with then the actual units are irrelevant, it could be in furlongs or femptoparsecs for all I care.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:40:42 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2019, 09:18:26 pmI'm pretty sure that plywood in the US is making a big move toward metric. For decades, Okoume plywood has been in metric (I used to build small hydroplanes with the stuff) and what I am starting to see at Lowe's is metric thickness disguised in 64ths of an inch. Baltic Birch plywood seems to come in 3mm, 6mm, 8mm, 12mm and 18mm. 6mm may be marked as 15/64" rather than 1/4".Basically, if the plywood is imported, it may very well be in metric thicknesses. Sometimes even the sheet size is metric, especially the exotics like Okoume and Baltic Birch.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:46:25 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 09:02:04 pmIs it really that much of a hardship? I mean as someone who has had domestic and European cars for decades I'm really having a hard time understanding the issue here. A majority of the fasteners on my cars are 10mm, 12mm and 14mm, a few are 15 and 17mm and then there are a few 8mm and a few larger ones. I have a set each with about a dozen wrenches in metric and imperial sizes, and about the same number of sockets. A few of the common metric sizes even have direct imperial equivalents. It has always been a complete non-issue for me and just sounds like grumpy old geezer complaints. Back in my day we used inches and liked it that way! *shrug*It's especially odd to hear someone who is generally advocating smaller less intrusive government to advocate government mandate specific fasteners be used on vehicles to make it easier for mechanics to service them. But requiring companies producing goods to make service information and parts available to aid those servicing them is government over-reach? I mean which is it, should the government mandate this stuff or should it stay out of the way and let the market decide? Shouldn't a mechanic who wishes to work on a wide range of cars pony up and invest in the required tools the same way a person wishing to maximize their income should invest in a relevant education? There seems to be a disconnect here.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:47:51 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 06:39:16 pmThat would come down to where they are having each produced, 2018 Ford ranger here in Aus was using metric 10mm bolts in the chassis around the dash area, cannot speak for the engine / gearboxThe only other place I commonly find imperial fittings is boom-lifts, metric Alan-keys but imperial bolts all on the same control panel.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2019, 09:35:45 pmNonsense.Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act in 1975, an executive order (12770) was issued to direct the government to take all appropriate measures to adopt the metric system as the standard system of weights and measures. Every single one of your customary units was specifically redefined in metric terms. You adopted metric, nobody got the message.Did you know only two states don't allow entirely metric labelling of consumer products? Cheers for that, NY and AL. Your military works primarily in metric, with a few obvious and a few odd exceptions.Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 09:40:42 pmLast time I was over there (December!), I went through three or four sheets of '23/32 CAT' (or '.703"') T&G OSB. The rest of the world calls this 18mm, because that's what it is. Now, that said, I just used two sheets of 18mm OSB myself. But they were 8x4', too - still produced that way to fit existing framing.Slowly but surely, you're getting there, you just don't want to admit it to yourselves..

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:18:25 pm
content: Here's why the US will never actually use metric measure: The standards are kept in France and, at best, our relations with France are strained and have been since De Gaulle kicked us out in '66. I was stationed in Mannheim, Germany just after the moves ('66..'67).Seriously, if the standards were kept in Sweden we would have changed over years ago. But the idea that we would be taking orders from France just doesn't sit well with those not involved in the scientific community. Not changing over also gives the elites something to hold over the average working stiff.Imperial measure will be used around here for a very long time!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:24:05 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 10:18:25 pmWhich standards are those? The IPK? Obsolete.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:28:15 pm
content: The standard for the meter is based on wavelengths of light, we have not used the physical meter sample for many years, the KG is also soon to become based on a Watt-balance and not the physical stanadard eitherI should mention the US has multiple prototype KG references stored in house, the imperial measurement system was shifted to line up with exactly a metric number of 25.4mm = 1", I believe the same has been happening for your weights aswell, trimming things to line up with convenient metric conversions.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:59:10 pm
content: I remember this whole thing. The metric thing was a done deal in law, except that it was entirely "voluntary". It was when some highway mileage signs (listing BOTH km and miles) started going up in the late 1970's where the general public could see them that it got really political at all levels of government and most of the official volunteering stopped. Too many people don't like rapid change, and too many officials like getting re-elected. And to top it off, Ronald Reagan in 1982 abolished the metrification board that was supposed to make recommendations on how to move forward.But that doesn't mean industry isn't finding it easier to convert on its own in many cases. The food industry is most of the way there with dual labeling and size changes, for the most part; when was the last time you saw a 2-quart bottle of soda? Automotive has moved a great way in that direction, and most mechanics have been dealing with both units for their entire lives due to imports. Like James, I've always had both metric and standard sets of basic tools.So yes, we'll get there eventually. But probably piecemeal over many more decades, since we're just too big for the world to force it upon us.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 06:39:16 pmWow... just wow.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:53:51 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 19, 2019, 09:50:37 pmAbsolutely! I used to shoot the 106mm Recoiless Rifle mounted on a M151C jeep - with a 50 cal spotting rifle (0.50"). Both metric and imperial on the same weapon.The military 7.62mm cartridge is essentially a .308 round both use a .308" diameter bulletThe 5.56mm cartridge is a .223 round and both actually use a .224" diameter bulletThe .40 S&W and .45 ACP are inch sized roundsThe 9mm is an oddball in that the bullets are 0.355" and no other inch sized cartridge is identical.We're kind of ambivalent: Military rifle scopes generally use a mil-radian reticle. So the ratio is 1:1000. 1 yard at 1000 yards is 1 mil-radian. So is 1 meter at 1000 meters. Just use what you know!But, you're right, a lot of military ordnance is based on metric measure. The only people that care are the designers, manufacturers and the guys who label the box. The shooters don't care what it's called.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:56:05 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on April 19, 2019, 11:46:50 pmYou realize I was kidding, right?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:56:29 pm
content: Metric has been an official system in the US since the nineteenth century (1874 if I remember correctly). Meaning that it is legal to use it for weights and measures. The metrification act of 1974 was an attempt to improve trade by using a common system with the rest of the world. Which in spite of all of the ranting and raving is one of the few true advantages to metric. Having one system worldwide is really good regardless of which system it is. Having a unit system that doesn't confuse force and mass is another, but as I have mentioned in other threads some metric users try to re-introduce that confusion in a variety of ways. Measuring torque in gm-cm for example.There are a whole lot of reasons that act didn't cause a widespread conversion in the US. I'm sure rstofer is correct on one of those reasons, though I don't think it is dominant. Another big factor was that gasoline prices were in a major inflationary period in the US, and many vendors switched to liters and increased their prices simultaneously, leading to a belief that the whole reason for the switch was to disguise price hikes. And it is true that there is little objective reason for either metric or imperial units when selling retail quantities of fluids. A similar thing happened in the alcohol industry as it switched from fifths and gallons to metric units. But for some reason that conversion stuck and you can no longer buy bourbon, vodka or any other hard liquor in fifths or gallons in the US. US automobiles began the switch at about the time of the conversion act, but it happened gradually. The reason being that it is expensive to change in the middle of a model run, so metric standards came gradually as production lines were revamped. Mixed units in vehicles were once common. Also US engineers had to relearn standard practices in metric. I had to change the alternator on one of my vehicles and it required removing four bolts. Two were Imperial and two metric. And one of the metrics was a non-standard metric size. Had to go buy a special socket to supplement my metric set of tools. But now, nearly forty years later US vehicles are virtually 100% metric. Other elements of metric haven't changed because both Imperial units and metric units are arbitrary and there isn't any real advantage to one over the other. Temperature being the obvious example. Other than giving travelers from one side of the unit divide to the other an easier time of deciding what to wear there really is no reason to change.Finally, for much of that time period the US economy was far larger than any other part of the world, and was large enough to do its own thing without needing to play nice with everyone else. That is changing and I suspect the US will fall into line over time.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 12:14:15 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 11:53:51 pmI actually wasn't talking about firearms in particular, but you feel free to make that leap (and bring up a majority of calibres either not in military use or pre-dating your official metric adoption).9x19mm, FYI, is an 'oddball' in that you didn't invent it - a nice man called Georg Luger did. He was Austrian. It was based on a previous round of his, which in turn was based on one by Hugo Borchardt - a German.Oh, and nobody wanted 7.62x51 or 5.56x45 - everyone was was busy working on better intermediate cartridges, you bullied NATO into 7.62x51 and then decided that was a bad move, and bullied NATO into the 5.56x45, which is inferior to the 6.5-7mm intermediates which were being developed, which were very similar to cartridges being developed (in the US) prior to WW2 which were abandoned in favour of 30-06 for logistical reasons when, y'know, war happened again.This slightly off-topic post brought to you by non-Americans knowing a thing or two about firearms.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 12:52:40 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on April 20, 2019, 12:14:15 amI never claimed we invented it and it is the most common pistol round in use throughout the world. Everybody uses it! We didn't invent the Browning HiPower either. Well, John Browning (US) started the design but FN (Belgium) completed it. Shared credit? And the Luger pistol is still a collector's item.My point was that some military mm cartridges were actually based on imperial measurements.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 01:06:54 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 20, 2019, 12:52:40 amOf which I am very well aware. Would it be impolitic of me to point out that seeing as the majority of firearms dimensions are not preferred figures in any measurement system, including imperial, and imperial units are merely an expression of metric ones, that it's fairly irrelevant which system you choose to express them in? In many cases the 'dimension' given in the name isn't even one used in the cartridge, chamber, or rifling no matter which unit you choose to use.Oh, by the way: .380 ACP. 9mm for Americans. Don't mix it up with .38 ACP! (which is also 9mm for Americans)

author: ElectronicSupersonic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 01:45:53 am
content: AFAIK NASA uses metric system, US NAVY design ships in metric units (AFAIK). So it's possible, when needed.Here is an interesting video (in case someone haven't seen this already) on the subject (the punch line is from 0:49 to 1:04).

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:18:44 am
content: Wow did not expect to generate so many comments.For whats its worth I seem to remember my teachers using metric when I was around ten in late sixties.They only people that showed me imperial being my parents.That said although much preferring metric, when doing work on my house that was built in 1908 all the sizes of rooms, beams etc are of course in imperial. Just this week needing to measure insulation for 14inch spaced rafters. But if making my own new things I use metric.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 02:50:08 pm
content: American unitsare notImperial units.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 02:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 19, 2019, 06:39:16 pmActually, the reason the Japanese had to make their cars more reliable was so that they would not need to be repaired by shops that did not have adequate tools.True fact that.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 04:43:16 pm
content: I see not problem with the wrenches: the US have fixed imperial size and adjustable metric. In Europe we have it the other way around.At least the US is using metric inches already for more than 100 years.The 2 cases I did not like with the US systems where the number drills and the odd units used for thermal conductivity:BTU*inch / square foot / FNASA had there problems with imperial and metric : they lost a mission (AFAIK to venus) because someone still used pounds and this way got the thrust wrong to enter orbit.East Germany and likely Russia had essentially converted to all metric. We still have pipe fitting using imperial threads - GDR had metric pipe threads, but this did not last past the end of the GDR. So they actually converted back from metric to imperial threads in this case.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 04:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on April 20, 2019, 04:43:16 pmWrenches are no problem where there is lots of room. But for some reason everyone, from automotive engineers to electronics box makers, puts fasteners in tight spots where only a high quality thin wall tool will fit.

author: ElectronicSupersonic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 06:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on April 20, 2019, 04:43:16 pmWhey switched to metric system (together with the new simplified grammar for the language although it is still a tough nut even after simplification) some time after the 1917 revolution. The switch wasn't instantaneous (as one might guess), but they got there eventually. However in plumbing and water supply systems, imperial threads were/are still used regardless.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 07:11:46 pm
content: I believe plumbing threads are in inches pretty much everywhere.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_PipeQuoteAn interesting case is America's garden hose thread which is 11.5 TPI. I believe that is unique in the world.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 07:15:33 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on April 20, 2019, 04:43:16 pmA new type of ruler to unite inches and mm.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 07:51:11 pm
content: Living next door to the USA, you use fluent in both units. The oil and gas, plumbing industry is exclusively Imperial because"nominal pipe size"goes back to 1927 or ANSI in 1918. What pipe sizes does Australia use?At some point, people became too dumb to work with fractions.Is 9/16" bigger than 7/8"? For woodwork, adding fractions is too much for some people.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_countryshows how time/date has many different formats across the world.American mm/dd/yy verses Canadian dd/mm/yy drives me nuts so I use Metric (ISO 8601) time & date format yyyy-MM-dd with HH:mm:ss (24hr) time. It pisses everyone off, but no ambiguity.Australia: "mmmm d, yyyy is sometimes used, usually informally in the mastheads of magazines, schools, newspapers, advertisements, video games, News, and TV shows. MDY in numeric-only form is never used."

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 08:47:49 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 20, 2019, 07:51:11 pmPeople were always too dumb to work fluently with fractions and only a small percentage of the population became proficient. Working with decimals is way easier, way faster, less prone to making mistakes. There is no point in keeping a cumbersome system. Many things have been simplified and that gives us more capacity and efficiency. Understanding fractions is fine but requiring they be used for practical measurements is silly.Old mariners could "box the compass". Today pretty much nobody can do it. So what? It is not needed and good riddance.(In the mariner's exercise of boxing the compass, all thirty-two points of the compass are named in clockwise order.)(It's not difficult and I used to do it just for fun.)

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 02:24:18 am
content: Quote from: soldar on April 20, 2019, 07:15:33 pmOne ruler to rule them all....I love metric...but went from Mirage to F111 to F18...metric back to US system. Its wans't that difficult but in instances like the Mirage we refuelled the plane in Litres from the truck to gallons in the Aircraft tanks. A metric plane....no we used psi for the pressures and Fahrenheit for exhaust gas temp. The fuel debit meter counted total fuel in gallons down to zero however the external tanks were manually selected and the capacitance fuel gauge showed main fuel tank only ....external tanks were in gallons....like the supersonic 110gallon tanks or the centerline 286 or 374 gallon tanks.The issue of converting gallons to litres and errors caused the Gimli glider emergencyMore than one pilot forgot to manually select the ext fuel tanks this found them critically short of fuel ....until they remembered the external switches.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 02:50:39 am
content: I would say the annoying thing is the fuel tank quantities are just a name plate and a gauge decal away from swapping units,

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 02:58:00 am
content: Quote from: soldar on April 20, 2019, 02:50:08 pmMost of them are the same, but the US gallon-v-Imperial gallon was always an annoyance, with the inherent possibility of confusion where an Australian "44 gallon" drum becomes a US "55 gallon drum".Now, there is an obvious conversion between metric & "customary units", so an Oz "200 litre" drum becomes a US "55 gallon" one.(OK, I know they aren't perfect conversions, hence the "quotation marks".)In Oz, spanners/wrenches are normally specified in "across the flats" (AF) sizes, both in metric & (most) "Imperial".The exceptions are :- "Whitworth", "BSF" & "BA" sizes, where for the first two, it is thread diameter, & the last one, it is an arbitrary number allocated by the originators of that standard.It is notable that the small standard "diameter-v-TPI" (at least, I think that's how they are specified) metal screws so common in the USA, are not compatible with any "Imperial" or Metric screw sizes.That's why you have to make sure not to lose your Textronix screws!

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 11:53:42 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 19, 2019, 03:52:34 pmI know Brumby... hahaha... And your following post about my Typo which should have been1mL = 1Gram (not a Milligram!)Just typing fast later in the evening, after glasses of Bubbly !And of course, to others, the cross-units are only applicable to Water !Re: How you said... "I can still hear the jingle in my head"... YES, I can still hear it too! (I remember it well).It was set to the old Aussie tune of "Click Go The Shears", and here it is,An interesting note about "Tape-Measures" not everyone knows... is that most of them, have a black diamondpositioned at what 'appears' to be19+3/16"and 'multiples' thereafter. These are to measure 'Centres' (centers)of 'Trusses', as an 8' sheet of what-ever will then fit perfectly between centres! (16" also highlighted for Studs!).Notice it is NOT quite on the 3/16" mark ?? Because 8', (96"), divided by 5, = 19.2" per Truss. Ha!! Partly Metric!Note: 2... Many years ago, I was working on a Site Interstate out ofMelb?, installing a HUGE printing-press line,which was to be for the 'Australian' version of the International 'Playboy' Magazine! for 'Wilke-Press' as a Tech.We had a crew out from Germany to assist, (was their machinery). I was amazed that they ONLY used theirwooden fold-out Rulers, even when accuracy was detrimental ?? Like this....I understand that normal Metal tape-measures can expand/contract with temperature, but I would have thoughtthat the 'problem' with the fold-out 'wooden' ones, is that you often havetwolayers of stacked, say, 3mm eachbits of wood, which you must position your face 'exactly' above, to eliminate the cursed "Error of Parallax" ??Anyway, they laughed at our tools xoxox. Especially if we used an "Adjustable-Spanner". To them, an 'Englander' xoxWe had our "tail between our legs", until AFTER work for the day !! (It was Summer, and it was hot)...We gave them some 'Aussie' Beer, (freezing cold of course !!!) They spat it out, saying it was too cold. Whenwarmer, it was crap!! Explained that OUR beer is not meant to be drank like they are used to