Help identifying instrument from Apple event - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Numex106
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 06:24:56 pm
content: Hi Everyone,I was watching the apple announcement event and noticed an instrument I didn't recognize. Looks like maybe a touchscreen oscilloscope? Anyone know the what model or brand it is?https://youtu.be/5AwdkGKmZ0I?t=943

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 06:35:37 pm
content: Looks like a FNIRSI.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000934486311.htmlhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/Edit: You can see loads of them in the video, seems like one-per-person. If it's good enough for Apple...

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 07:00:19 pm
content: Theater department putting together a set? Sounds like an opportunity to get rid of the equipment you don't want

author: Numex106
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 07:44:55 pm
content: It looks like you're totally right. That's hilarious. It's funny because they have nice Keysight equipment everywhere and then they have this aliexpress special.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 09:51:05 pm
content: That's absolutely a set arranged for the shot, nothing makes sense about how the equipment is arranged. Power supply sitting with the front panel right up at what is the back edge of the bench going by where the computer monitor is located. Two separate towers under the desk facing in opposite directions but only one monitor. equipment piled around what looks to be a PCB on a stand, all facing in different directions and there are no chairs or stools to be seen. This is all just one notch above the typical stock photography fails, I'm surprised they don't have an ancient CRO in the background displaying a sine wave or something.

author: wolfy007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 12:15:38 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 11, 2020, 09:51:05 pmWell they do have an old, what looks to be, Mac SE up on a shelf in the background, that was around while CRTs were still used. Sure need one of those in your lab now (just in case)...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 12:21:24 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 11, 2020, 09:51:05 pmI would say, that the part that actually makes 0 sense whatsoever is an engineering department using a mac.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 03:46:23 am
content: Where's all the empty coffee cups, soda cans, pizza boxes, and all the other signs of real people doing work...?Andis with the vertical-mounted PCBs everywhere?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 04:16:32 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on November 12, 2020, 12:21:24 amAt Apple? Of course they'll be using a Mac. I don't know if it's running MacOS but I'm betting it is, it's all Unix underneath anyway.It could be a real lab space, but it's obviously cleaned up and staged for the photo. Every real lab I've been in had piles of stuff strewn all over the benches and overflowing shelves and cabinets along the walls.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 05:26:30 am
content: Yep that is not what a electronics lab looks like, especially as you look around the walls of the room. Pretty sure they staged it and borrowed some equipment from an actual lab to scatter around those desks. That must have been easier to do than tidying up one of the actual real labs to look good on video.Also they claim about this being the worlds fastest CPU core... care to elaborate on that apple? Does it beat the single threaded benchmark scores in cinebench set by Ryzen 5000? Oh and worlds fastest integrated GPU? So how many fps can it do in some of the popular titles versus AMDs Vega 8 integrated GPUs? The usual baseless claims with no real numbers.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 05:34:57 am
content: > fastest CPU core... care to elaborate on that apple?Isn't Apple the TSMC 5nm guinea pig? I'm sure they could cook up a novelty benchmark if so.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 05:47:36 am
content: so funny

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 05:59:07 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 12, 2020, 05:34:57 amI'm sure the new chip is going to be impressive in some regards, especially in terms of performance per watt since this is ARMs strong point. Combined with fancy new fab processes could push this into some impressive numbers. I'm sure they can make this the worlds highest performance/watt CPU.But suddenly saying it is the fastest core in the world is a much bolder claim. The x86 architecture was always pushing for performance and for a ARM core to suddenly be faster sounds unlikely. Especially when this M1 chip is a laptop CPU, combined with the crap thermal solutions that apple throws at laptops means it has a pretty small power budget to work with. The high performance x86 laptop CPUs simply throw more brute force power at the problem and provide the cooling to do it reliably. Also they never said the word mobile in "Worlds fastest CPU core" so if you include desktop CPUs that now run at 5GHz out of the box (and combined with the modern x86 performance/MHz) that is a bold claim on a whole new level. Saying something like "Worlds fastest ARM core" sounds like it could happen, since the big ARM chips used in servers are more about lots of cores rather than single threaded speed. But worlds fastest CPU core among everything else... Nah not a chanceNot saying that this new ARM based chip is going to be slow at all. I'm sure it is plenty fast enough to do all the things you would do on a laptop and probably even beat some of the average laptops people have. But they are not going to beat the fastest x86 chips.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 07:06:00 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 12, 2020, 04:16:32 amNah.eg. What's with all the vertically mounted PCBs on the tables? It looks like a load of exhibits borrowed from a PCB museum.Quote from: james_s on November 12, 2020, 04:16:32 amExactly.And there'd be some usage marks on the floor.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 07:55:28 am
content: And those chairs. They could afford better lab chairs

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 04:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on November 12, 2020, 05:59:07 amThey made the same sort of claims when the PowerPC was first offered, it's really nothing new there, just typical Apple marketing. They have made some pretty slick products at times, however especially after the passing of Steve Jobs things have slid too far into fashion statement territory. My work issued laptop is a Macbook Pro and I quite like the operating system and the audio is fantastic for a laptop, and the display is nice too, but the keyboard is crap, the touchbar is a cool gimmick that is more hindrance than help on average, and the battery life is mediocre at best. It sacrifices way too much functionality to be thinner than it needs to be. It's so thin that I find it uncomfortable to hold and the vents on the sides create sharp edges. I have never liked the gargantuan touchpad either, it's absurdly large and I have never found a reason for that. In the right light you can see from my finger smudges on it and I only use maybe 1/6 of the total surface area down in the lower right corner.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2020, 07:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 12, 2020, 04:48:22 pmThe point is that everybody uses adifferent1/6 of it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 12:38:39 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 12, 2020, 07:50:54 pmHow is that helpful? I wouldn't care exactly where it is, I could get used to the position, I just wish it wasn't so big because it's gigantic enough that it is in the way no matter where I rest my hands. I had to turn the sensitivity all the way up to max and it still requires more hand movement than I'd like. I really miss the old touchpads of the mid 2000's, small, precise, proper tactile buttons below the pad, it was something they perfected and then proceeded to keep tinkering with and go through all kinds of horrible iterations before they got it mostly usable but still not as good as it used to be.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 01:09:48 am
content: Did trackpads stop improving and regress or did you stop learning and get left behind? Small trackpads are fine for pointing and maybe scrolling but they're complete rubbish at swiping, pinching, and grasping gestures. Window switching, multiple desktops, and canvas zoom/pan lean heavily on those gestures. If you want to make them workhorse interactions rather than novelties, you need the giant trackpad. Of course, it would come at the cost of awkward hand resting position if the palm rejection wasn't on point, but it is. It's not perfect, but it's much closer than I'd have thought possible, and people who want to make it work reliably can make it work reliably (in my case: ~1 false negative per month, which seems typical).

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 03:53:19 am
content: I guess the Keysight scope in the background sitting on a cart isn't cool enough.And, introducing the Apple iScope, the world's thinnest oscilloscope!OK OK, I really like Apple stuff and own a lot of it. They make great hardware, still. But clearly, this lab was staged for the publicity event. Nothing more, nothing less. With Apple's deep pockets, they have have whatever test equipment they want. I'd be more interested to see some of their real labs, like where they do RF work. But that'll never happen. but I will say that an oscilloscope with a 16" HiDPI screen like the Macbook Pro would be awesome. Shitty screens seems to be the name of the game even with expensive scopes.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 04:58:25 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on November 13, 2020, 03:53:19 ama) You're only displaying 8-bit data* so what would be the advantage?b) My problem is space, I don't want a hulking 16" screen.c) Many 'scopes have HDMI connectors or remote viewing abilities.d) There's USB oscilloscopes if you want to use your PC screen.(*) Usually not even 8-bits.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 05:05:28 am
content: Well, for one thing, these modern panels enjoy vastly superior viewing angles, nicer colors, and better quality LED backlighting.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 05:20:39 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on November 13, 2020, 05:05:28 amThey also cost more than my entire oscilloscope.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 05:28:54 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on November 13, 2020, 01:09:48 amI don't swipe, pinch or use grasping gestures, I find them pointless and tedious and I hate that the hardware is so heavily optimized toward a gimmick I don't want or need at the expense of functionality I do use. I use keyboard shortcuts, they're much faster and I don't have to wave my hand around.And for what it's worth, those gestures are perfectly usable on my Lenovo with a larger than 2005 era but far smaller than MBP touchpad. The closest thing to a gesture I ever intentionally use is two fingered scrolling but it's certainly possible to do others.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 05:32:33 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on November 13, 2020, 03:53:19 amI can't imagine why I would want a gigantic scope hogging my desk. The 5.5" display on my TDS3000 is just about perfect, if the screen were any larger the whole scope would have to be larger. Even that ancient TFT looks perfectly fine for the job it does. I'm not watching movies or doing photo editing on my scope, it's a tool. What do I need super high resolution and excellent color depth for? Scopes are expensive enough already, I don't want to pay more just to get a needlessly fancy display.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 06:33:00 am
content: It raises an interesting question though: Why are displays on testgear sometimes lacking in contrast/brightness/whatever.They don't need to be color calibrated or any of the other stuff that makes high-end PC monitors so expensive but there doesn't seem any excuse for them to be dim or lacking in contrast.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 07:16:20 am
content: That’ll be bean counters. A decent display costs a few more pennies. There’s a whole market out there of half decent cheap IPS panels from phones and tablets. I’m surprised they don’t use them. Also if it has to be touch screen based they have capacitive digitisers in them.The notable exception to this is the OLED displays that were more expensive but wore out very quickly

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2020, 04:48:30 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 13, 2020, 06:33:00 amWhen I've encountered this it's usually because the display is old and the backlight is worn out from many years of use. Is there a particular model of modern gear that you find has a dim display? If it's low cost modern gear then it probably has the absolute cheapest display available, good quality equipment should have a display that is at least reasonable with good brightness and contrast.