What LCR meter should I get? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 08:32:05 pm
content: I'm in the market for an LCR meter mainly to measure the ESR of capacitors to make sure they are in good condition and to test the inductance of some DIY coils for audio applications etc.I am leaning towards the Sanwa LCR700 as it is available locally for a reasonable price and seems like it's a quality unit.If anyone has any experience with it please let me know your thoughts.My budget is around 300-400 USD, 100 KHz for the ESR at least and tweezers/clips would be nice to have.Pleaase let me know your recommendations. It will be mostly used for hobby repair of power supplies.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 09:13:55 pm
content: it seems the same as the deree de5000 that is sold around $100 shipping inclusive. most sellers are in Japan.http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-deree5000-cl.html

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 12:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 17, 2020, 09:13:55 pmMy guess that ALL SELLERS are there.. via EBAYBut your math is not considering the "options"Actually doing comparison - even with recent price drop forDEREE -with UNI-T 612 you will find that:- UNIT 612 comes COMPLETE with cable + software + case- UNIT 612 uses the very same hardware of DEREE- UNIT 612 is costing less complete than DEREE incompleteA usable DEREE with all the cables + soft is still more expensiveThere is a very good deep revision of 612 here on forumPaul

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 03:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on March 18, 2020, 12:41:47 pmderee de5000 for $102 delivered, complete with probes, from japanhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-DE-5000-bundle-TL-21-TL-22/273073305291

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 04:26:09 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestions.The UNI-T is crap quality so not going to be considering it at all.That DEREE seems to only be sold on Ebay which doesnt deliver to Lebanon so that 's not an option.I prefer to buy the LCR off of Aliexpress as they ship to my country and usually I don't get taxed on items coming from China via regular post.Hence the Sanwa LCR700. I can get it shipped for 350 $ and wouldnt have to pay any customs fees on it.Any other recommendations that can be found on Aliexpress?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 04:48:40 pm
content: The specs from the Sanwa are not very extensive. No measurement ranges and accuracy.I have this one (but doesn't go to 100kHz): The XJW01 digital bridgehttps://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32984209316.htmlSomething like this also looks interesting:https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/32974617221.htmlEdit: updated URL

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 05:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on March 18, 2020, 04:26:09 pmNo not crap at all.Considering price and the POSTING HERE ABOUT IT...it is not crap at all. You have a good offer for the price.I have the ref somewhere but busy now.. just findthe review here on the forum for 612. Worthy readingPaul

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 08:39:00 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 18, 2020, 04:48:40 pmYou can read the specs on page 36 of the attached manual.Not into these "toys". Looking for a reliable instrument that will serve me a long time.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 08:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on March 18, 2020, 08:39:00 pmThen don't overlook the likes of what blueskull mentioned.A friend lent me his LCR bridge and while it was very accurate its size and slowness of use was a right PITA so I splashed out for some good LCR tweezers that I would replace in an instant with similar again.No leads, one hand operation and good accuracy. What's not to like ?

author: cvanc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 09:17:20 pm
content: I have a DE5000 and I absolutely love it. It's a great tool and I highly recommend it.However, I work on older stuff and rarely measure SMD components. For SMD I can see that a tweezers style might be more appropriate.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 09:30:41 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on March 18, 2020, 08:39:00 pmWell you should reconsider. I have an XJW01 myself and it has served me very well for several years already. The specs of the Sanwa are actually worse (except for the higher measurement frequencies). For example: the XJW01 can measure much lower resistances.It turns out I even wrote a review of an earlier model 6 years ago:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/xjw01-auto-lcr-meter-review-($120-bench-top-lcr-meter)/Designing an LCR meter is not rocket science and you can get good accuracy from simple & low cost parts. Basically all you need is ONE stable and precise resistor as a reference.Edit: I have been looking at getting a 'more professional' LCR meter but a major step up costs a lot of money and starts to get into the territory where you can also buy a used network analyser. Which I ended up doing.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2020, 10:10:24 pm
content: Quote from: cvanc on March 18, 2020, 09:17:20 pmSure but only testing of large axial components pose a problem for tweezer style LCR tools.The points will stretch to ~25mm which allows connection to all but large TH components but leads can always be lengthened if need be.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2020, 05:29:09 am
content: If the prices here are competitive, (considering the postage costs too), I can pick one up and send it on my next trip to Akihabara.http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/goods/search.aspx?search=x&keyword=de-5000

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 01:21:44 am
content: I don't like the tweezer style meters as they look too delicate.Would much rather have a DMM sized instrument with the option of buying tweezers for SMD work (not my use case).Are LCR meters any good at indicating the health of batteries? I'm guessing their ESR can also be measured just like capacitors correct?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 03:02:02 am
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on March 26, 2020, 01:21:44 amYes well, that's absolute one eyed garbage !While I brought mine exclusively for SMD work I can assure you they mostly get used for TH work and particularly for identifying faulty components.QuoteYet why would you want a instrument that is painfully slow to use unless you need measurement accuracy into the ppm.QuoteYep tweezers check the battery V and warn you when they are getting low enough to influence accuracy.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 04:47:09 am
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on March 26, 2020, 01:21:44 amI doubt. I don’t think you can use them to measure the ESR of batteries. Most (if not all) of them advise you to discharge the capacitors before attempting to measure them. No idea how would they deal with with a charged battery.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 05:13:48 am
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on March 26, 2020, 04:47:09 amNot an LCR meter but the Bob Parker ESR Meter can do it (discussed here) as long as you don't have protection didoes (discussed here) installed. I also recommend this model for general in circuit ESR testing and troubleshooting as a milliohm meter, you do want the protection diodes in that case.Bob's ESR meter page.http://www.bobparker.net.au/esr_meter/esrmeter.htm

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 11:02:55 am
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on March 26, 2020, 04:47:09 amJust put a DC-blocking capactor in between (a 1uf ceramic parallel with 1000uf low ESR electrolytic for example) in each wire (hipot and hcur).

author: LarryS
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2020, 08:02:30 pm
content: I Like the DE-5000. The alligator clips that come with it are c**p! There is a modification by commongrounder. I found that the B&K test leads for their meter work. They are not true Kelvin clips - you need to see the video by robrenz to see a true Kelvin clips. I wish I had his skill and his shop.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 04:00:54 am
content: The DE-5000 is excellent for the price but I only get a couple months of use out of the battery even when off. I added a small switch which resolved that. Anyone else experience this issue?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2020, 06:52:18 am
content: Quote from: J-R on March 27, 2020, 04:00:54 amno - same battery here for some 3 years of use.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 11:50:49 am
content: Are there any bench DMMs that have LCR functionality under 500$?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 12:54:17 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 28, 2020, 12:51:54 pmYes. Lot's of 3.5 and 4.5 digit meters. But AFAIK not with inductance measurement. There are many with capacitance measurement but no ESR measurement. In the end an LCR meter is a different beast which is likely hard to integrate with a DMM.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 02:22:30 pm
content: there is the derEE DE-5004 that is a DMM with LCR mode. I have one and really like it.but it is a handheld multimeter, not a bench one.http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-dereede5004.html

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 02:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2020, 12:54:17 pmThe reason I ask is because I've seen some cheap handheld DMMs with inductance measuring capabilities but it seems ESR measurments is a different ballgame so I'll just stick with the Sanwa meter thanks!

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 04:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 28, 2020, 02:22:30 pmWow, that looks like a pretty nice meter at a good price. And thanks for your post with the link to the pdf manual!According to the eBay ad it is "similar to the DE-5000 + DMM function"Digital Multimeter DMM + LCR meter---DE-5004 (True RMS)Performance similar to DE-5000 LCR meter + DMM function !!LCR Resolution : 0.01uH / 0.1pF / 0.01ΩDC/AC V Resolution : 1mVDC/AC A Resolution : 0.01uALCR, ACV, DCV, dBV, dBm, Ohm, Continuity, Diode, Capacitance, Hz, Duty, ACA, DCA ...LCD Display : 6000 counts (main), 2000 counts (sub.)DMM sampling Rate: 3 times / sec. approxLCR sampling Rate: 1 time / sec. approxRange: Automatic & ManualOverload: “OL” displayLow Battery indicationBattery : AA 1.5V battery x 2 (included)Auto Power OffSafety Standard : IEC 61010-1 CAT. III 600V, CAT. II 1000VDimension : 181x92x57mm, HxWxTCome with English operating manualDER EE co., TaiwanThe table is from their deree web web site:https://www.deree.com.tw/lcr-meter.htmSpecs:https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5004-digital-multimeter-lcr.htmlProbably best to study the manual linked to your post - Thx kripton2035 for the good suggestion!Manualhttp://kripton2035.free.fr/Resources/DEREE-DE5004.pdf

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 04:06:24 pm
content: Quoteyeah.. almost !the measuring frequency is automatic you can't choose it, and the precision is less : 0.01 ohms instead of 1mohm for the de5000but it is enough to measure some esr, caps and inductors.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 04:15:46 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on March 28, 2020, 04:06:24 pmIt's kind of like getting a lot of the DE-5000 LCR meter + what looks like a pretty good DMM as a nearly free bonus. I've found the DE-5000 to be very solid and dependable and pretty feature rich. The 5004 looks very cool - especially for someone who wants a DMM and a LCR meter without stressing the budget. There must be something I'm missing here....

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 04:33:00 pm
content: According to the specs:https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5004-digital-multimeter-lcr.htmlLCR Measurement (auto range)RS, Rp, Cs, Cp, Ls, Lp, phase angle, Dissipation factor, Quality factorAuto select series or parallel test modeAuto select 100Hz/1kHZ/10kHz test frequency, 0.5V rms approx.CalibrationHard to find such features on any DMM much less for $125 (including shipping).Looks to me like DER EE figured out how to build a decent DMM for not too much $ and put it inside a good LCR meter.But like I said, I must be missing somethingI'm sure someone will point it out shortlyI guess on the other hand for about the same price you could have a DE-5000 and then buy any DMM you want - but either way, it's nice to have choices. Congrats to DER EE.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 06:33:01 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 28, 2020, 04:33:00 pmWell, what 'bout some 4wire, and 4 1/2(20k) digits?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 07:30:08 am
content: The DE-5000 is in a different league:DE-5000: 0.001 Ohm - 200.0M Ohms, 0.01pF - 20.00mF, 0.001uH - 2.000KHDE-5004: 0.01 Ohm to 20.00M Ohms, 0.1pF - 6.00mF, 0.1uH - 100H

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 10:46:48 pm
content: I'm having to go back to the drawing board as I promised myself not to buy any handheld instruments from now on as I much prefer full sized bench meters instead as I have no use for them being portable.That being said however, the cheapest "decent" one I could find from a reputable brand is the GW-Instek LCR-6002 which is around 1000$.Was saving up to buy a power meter but I guess this is a priority so I might go for that one instead but I'm not sure of the max measuring frequency of 2 KHz.How can I determine if that will be enough or if I need the 10, 20 or even 100 KHz model?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 08:54:11 pm
content: https://www.keysight.com/en/pc-1587210/u1700-series-handheld-capacitance-and-lcr-meters?pm=SC&nid=-34196.0&cc=US&lc=engDave reviewed it.IET had rebranded DEE-5000 (De-5000 and then De-6000) but it has been discontinued. The replacement costs more than $5000Also reviewed by Dave.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 10:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on April 09, 2020, 10:46:48 pmBuy the XJW01 or buy a used LCR meter. For the purpose of measuring ESR the XJW01 is more than adequate. No need to look for / spend money on a high-end piece of equipment which you aren't going to utilize for 100%.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 09:10:03 am
content: The DER EE DE-5000 was never discontinued only the IET branded version was.Edit:I think 100kHz is pretty standard these days, it's also then comparable to other equipment or components that get best results tested at 100kHz.For the price the DE-5000 sounds like it might do everything you want, why not DYI up a bracket to run it on a shelf? It has no dial just buttons. Most cheap bench meters are just thrown together anyway. It will virtually pay for a cheap power meter the savings you will make.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 04:47:46 am
content: Yes, Only the IET have been discontinued.....

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 10:37:54 am
content: Quote from: Shock on April 11, 2020, 09:10:03 amThe issue is I can't buy from Ebay due to lack of paypal and my location so I would have to source it from another online store and it's also not available on Aliexpress so unless someone knows where I can get one, it is not an option unfortunately.

author: masterx81
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 10:40:49 am
content: I've bought it form akibashipping.https://akibashipping.com/products/der-ee-de-5000-high-accuracy-handheld-lcr-meter-with-tl-21-tl-22-new?_pos=1&_sid=157438e38&_ss=rArrived without issues

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 10:45:00 am
content: Quote from: masterx81 on April 12, 2020, 10:40:49 amExcellent! In that case i will buy it from there too just checked and they deliver to my country for 15$ only

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 11:22:47 am
content: There is a cheap chinese LC meter that test up to 500 Khz .It perform well on small capacitors 10-100 pF .Link here:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1748055767.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2bc77744UBMjHs&algo_pvid=ea273c14-9034-4cac-9040-8ec7a07e3b13&algo_expid=ea273c14-9034-4cac-9040-8ec7a07e3b13-18&btsid=0ab6f81615866898813234441e1c25&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 11:33:03 am
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on April 12, 2020, 10:45:00 amYou might be waiting a while depending on where you live, Japan Post isn't shipping to many countries at the moment...https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/information/2020/0401_02_en.html

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 12:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on April 12, 2020, 11:33:03 amMy country is not on that list so I assume it's safe to say they haven't suspended the delivery of packages to my location

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 12:59:30 pm
content: Cool yeah. if you are on the list, you should be good. Might just have a longer wait depending on airline flight frequency etc.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 02:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on April 12, 2020, 12:59:30 pmI will shoot them an email prior to placing the order just to make sure there will not be any issues with the shipping company.

author: bluey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 11:44:24 am
content: I have been looking at options for better than the Peak Electroncs UK ESR and LCR meters i have.The APPA rebadged GW Instek LCR-916 appears same as Voltcraft LCR-400 from Conrad. Similar guts to De-5000 and other CyrusTek based meters. Ergonomics looks better on the APPA design. Voltcraft is way cheaper.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 12:14:08 pm
content: For a good RCL meter I want 4-wire connection like the DE-5000.The 5004 DMM-RCL is 2-wire.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 05:10:59 pm
content: The DE-5000 is very nice and impossible to beat in its price range.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 06:12:22 pm
content: I have never tried to measure the ESR of a battery but it seems to me that all one needs to do is add a blocking capacitor, then subtract the reading of the capacitor alone.Even so, there are dangers so it's best to charge the capacitor from the battery first so as not to overvoltage the meter.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 07:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on May 09, 2020, 06:12:22 pmThat doesn't work. You'll need to do a 4 point measurement where you need 2 blocking capacitors (or 1 if the measurement path is AC coupled). Depending on the type of battery the ESR may be in de milli-Ohm or even micro-Ohm region. Typical for a 18650 Li-ion cell is in 30 milli-Ohm ball park.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 09:02:24 pm
content: Many things can be done with the open source $15 AVR transistor tester that many people, including me, have. That was what I used for years for everything I could not do with my DMM.It will test (middling and higher) inductances of the kind that are used in SMPS accurately. It can test caps down to low PFs. It will test capacitor ESR, and do amazingly well, considering its low cost. But it cannot test low inductance values like you would use in RF.But the DE-5000 can test low L+C values with much more accuracy using a four wire setup.

author: markce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 11:23:03 am
content: The AVR transistor tester, which I also have, is rather unaccurate on ESR measurement due to it's square wave test signal.It is more a tester than a measurement device.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 02:50:49 pm
content: Tu De5000 or the ut612 will be the best "most complete" models you can buy for a low priceIf you zero them correctly they will be precise.I tried the avr tester and i concur its a test appartus with limits. But its a good start, better than nothing.You have many aliexpress testers Ebay ones etc ... but you need to check theirs specs, find their respectives manuals if there is, no esr this no xxx that etc .... check many many websites, they play trick with words / expressions / not list the features correctly ....Banged my head or months before chosing a de5000, works perfectly, even managed to get a sencore lc102 to test huge capacitors banks at higher voltages ( sure has some limited tests) but they both agree for the same tests.No regrets since, and yes the ut612 has a better package value most of the times. And yes its based on the same tech as de5000,discharge your capacitors is the #1 ruleThis meter has saved my ass many times while probing on a board without removing parts.And 100khz is a norm this days, i was searching for 200khz and maybe 1 meg hz but they are bench meter, you have to go with reputable brands, too many china based models, no schematics, no parts if need andthe most important is calibration.This is an endless thread .... many members will give their toughts like i did, and sometime we learn by our mistakes if there is.In the end the OP is the one to choose or his wallet loll

author: bluey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 02:35:59 am
content: Curiously, the DER EE DE-5000 looks to have lower accuracy than the APPA 700 series (APPA 700B, APPA 701, APPA 703) and rebadged GWInstek 910 series (LCR-914, LCR-915, LCR-916) and Voltcraft LCR-400. The APPA models stick closer to 0.2% across the ranges, whereas the DE-5000 deviates more.