Do you still use leaded solder? I was today refused to buy it ...  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 06:44:38 pm
content: Hi, folks,I just wonder how many of you still use leaded solder for projects and prototyping compared to ones who are greenI'm asking because it was today removed from my order because I'm not permitted to use itI find it easier with lead and have a batch of boards with leaded HASL anyway and with a bunch of thick thru-hole connectors and connectors.I just bought it in a local store in the end.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 06:50:18 pm
content: For hobby most do I guess.The switch to Rohs/leadfree was only because of environmental choices, not for reliability and easy use which leadsolder still wins hands down.For companies I get it but for private use, perhaps I use 30g of lead solder per year, as long as you properly recycle it after use and not throw it in the garbage can.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 07:09:14 pm
content: I use it and I'm not about to give it up. There is no reason to mess with lead free stuff for hobby. The environmental damage all the hobbyist in the world will do by using it is negligible.For mass production where I personally don't have to touch it with a soldering iron - I don't care, lead free is fine.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 07:11:56 pm
content: Yes and I am always wondering to get some more quality ones.There is absolute no comparison to the strong bonded alloy of LEADED when compared to crappybrittleLEAD FREE, in particular in aged (even very shortly failed aged) devices...IMHO this whole LEAD FREE hairy shit heads is just to justify a business model where REPAIR is no longer an option and an entire wasteland landfill would be formed by such "disposal"Just nuts cranks aka business as usual thing...Absurdly common problem I have found since this LEAD FREE stuff appeared..Transformers are render useless when brittle lead free solder loose themSome shots attachedPaul

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 07:12:56 pm
content: I have 25 pounds of lead solder on hand and that should last me for decades. I have no plans to ever switch to Pb-free solder.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:01:36 pm
content: Some Swedish morons got it banned EU-wide two years ago or whatnot.Go back to that store and buy more

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:36:54 pm
content: You can probably still buy it direct from China no matter where you are. Nobody seems to track that stuff.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 15, 2021, 07:09:14 pmFully agree. Lead will not do any harm to you unless you eat your circuits. Working temperatures are lower for lead solder, thus this is no-brainer for hobyists as long as they can buy such.

author: jesuscf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:43:25 pm
content: They should ban the sell of leaded bullets as well!!!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:46:45 pm
content: For prototyping (hand soldering), I've been using lead-free solder (Multicore 96SC) for over 10 years now for most small SMD soldering, but for all through-hole and wiring jobs, I mostly use leaded solder.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:49:56 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 15, 2021, 08:46:45 pmWhy don't you use leaded solder for SMD? No such solder-paste anymore?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 08:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: jesuscf on November 15, 2021, 08:43:25 pmStarting in 1987, lead shot was banned in the USA for hunting waterfowl, since much of it ends up in the water to poison other life forms by ingestion.See:https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusiasts/hunting/nontoxic.php

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:01:45 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on November 15, 2021, 07:11:56 pmOh, come on. I've seen more of the tin-lead solder joints cracked than lead-free. Cracking issue is more about single layer PCB (no hole plating) rather than solder.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on November 15, 2021, 08:49:56 pmI must admit honestly that it's not really for an environmental or health reason. It's mainly because a decade ago or so, I had to renew my fine solder wire stock, and right when I needed to buy, I couldn't find what I was looking for as leaded solder. So I bought that, and I've been pleased with the results, so I kept using it. The particular wire I've been using (Multicore 96SC/ 3C 511) has the plus of containing a flux that I find less nasty than most fluxes I have found in leaded solder, actually, so that's also a reason. For small SMD work, I have no problem compared to leaded solder either.But for anything with larger thermal mass, I still use leaded solder (for which I have ample stock too.)And for solder paste, I've used both leaded and lead-free. Mostly depending on availability for that matter, since solder paste in small quantities (I'm talking for prototyping use here of course, not for production) is not always available as leaded, and you can't stock large quantities as they expire pretty fast.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:09:34 pm
content: One should be careful about mixing the two types, however.I was told that adding leaded solder to an unleaded solder was bad, but not vice-versa.However, "Pb-free" leads on ICs, etc., can be soldered with leaded solder.At my former employer, we did still use some leaded solder but kept separate solder stations for that purpose, to avoid contamination of the ROHS-soldered circuits.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:39:36 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 15, 2021, 09:06:37 pmI see what you mean. Most "oldskool" lead products most likely will contain "odskool" fluxes as well. For me who smelled rosin since I was little kid it is still OK, but in general modern fluxes not only work better, but also do not smell/evaporate that much.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:52:01 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on November 15, 2021, 09:39:36 pmGood reason to use a modern flux then and proper extraction. But lead-free fluxes must be more aggressive and will be used at higher temperatures. If you use the same flux in lead and lead-free, the leaded solder will inherently be safer as the temperature reached during soldering should be lower.Although I'm sure that stuff is not too bad:http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/243%20NEW-EN?pid=LOCTITE%20C%20511&format=MTR&subformat=MLTC&language=EN&plant=WERCSQuoteIs halide a health concern at this level? Not sure.Quotehttps://www.solderconnection.com/specsheets/Lead-free_Fume_Extraction.pdf

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 09:58:24 pm
content: Hobby, research and development - leaded solder.Customer stuff - lead-free, leaded upon request for prototypes.Provided people do not start licking or eating the boards, they should be fine.

author: BreakingOhmsLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:36:57 pm
content: Yes, the EU nannies won't let dealers sell leaded solder to private person any more. I stocked up on a lifetime supply before that happened.But you can find it on Ali & Evilbay.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 12:17:23 am
content: Quote from: Miyuki on November 15, 2021, 06:44:38 pmNo problem ordering from Farnell. Just received 2 rolls last week. But I have to say I use it for prototyping only.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 04:09:19 am
content: Quote from: jesuscf on November 15, 2021, 08:43:25 pmThe exclamation points make this sound sarcastic.I'm not sure how you meant but they absolutely should. Lead bullets are a serous environmental problem since they are deliberately shot into the environment when used for hunting or often at outdoor target ranges. Lead bullets have already been banned for hunting in some cases in the US and the US military is phasing out lead from at least their most common ammunition types. No idea how far along that is, I think it's been in progress for a decade.

author: dcarr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 04:14:55 am
content: I've been using lead-free SAC305 for more than 15 years. It works great. No need for the poisonous stuff---particularly paste which gets everywhere. Can even eat pizza and solder at the same time!

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:55:16 am
content: Quote from: dcarr on November 16, 2021, 04:14:55 amIsn't that rule number one in any lab to not eat and drink?But good point, it is safer when violating rules.Quote from: ejeffrey on November 16, 2021, 04:09:19 amIt is a reasonable ban for shotguns, as most of the shots do not end in the game but in the environment and it is a big issueFor other uses, I do not see many concernsAnd military ammo is mainly steel anyway (and always was for penetration reasons) and after a war, is that little remaining lead from bullets the least problem. In any bigger conflict will be used plenty of really nasty stuff to kill each other and lead is compared to it just a children's toy.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:03:10 am
content: Been using SN100C for at least a decade. I much prefer it to leaded stuff. If low temp is needed, just use a bismuth alloy.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 05:47:54 pm
content: I much prefer leaded to any of the lead free solders I have used, and the lower temperature makes it easier to work with and does less damage.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:00:19 pm
content: Quote from: BreakingOhmsLaw on November 15, 2021, 11:36:57 pmYes. I have good stock too so it should last a lifetime as well.It's interesting to see that dealers wouldn't be allowed to sell leaded solder to private individuals anymore, while the latter are still allowed to use it for prototyping? (Or are they not anymore? But I don't think so?)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:07:11 pm
content: I have a skeptical response to the abolition of leaded solder, since I worked on large x-ray systems that literally contained a ton of lead shielding, along with SMT PCBs for the imaging electronics that contained less than 1 kg of lead in the solder (large detector arrays).One client asked us if there were any substitute for the lead shielding, and the only ones available were tungsten (quite expensive) and gold (very expensive).For medical equipment, one vendor sold a lovely tungsten-loaded polymer shielding material that could be injection molded and was safe for human contact, also quite expensive.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:11:08 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 16, 2021, 06:00:19 pmThis is like in California you can't buy acrylic cement for hobby/personal use. But if you say that it is for work, then it all of a sudden becomes ok. This transaction is obviously easy when you are in buying person, but I assume suppliers will adapt and have a checkbox of some sort.And as usual, China will sell you whatever you want without asking too many questions.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:11:36 pm
content: There are still exemptions, such as implanted medical devices, aerospace, and stuff like that...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:13:22 pm
content: As I remember, one of the first exceptions granted was for cardiac pacemakers (which obviously require high reliability), despite the fact that the lead is implanted inside the patient's body.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 16, 2021, 06:11:08 pmNot meaning to trigger flamewars, but it looks like California is a bit like the EU of the USA.Quote from: ataradov on November 16, 2021, 06:11:08 pmYep. Might not pass customs... although it's still pretty rare.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:15:15 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 16, 2021, 06:13:22 pmMainly for reliability reasons indeed. The leaded parts are never in contact with the body, and the implants themselves are not supposed to open up or leak. (If that ever happens, the main concern for the patient is rarely going to be the lead.)Tin whiskers anyone?

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:24:09 pm
content: I've been using lead-free solder for personal projects for, oh, 20 years now, with no complaints or issues. Day jobs since forever have been lead free, too, for obvious reasons.This is everything from soldering boards with SMT devices to building audio cables.Seriously, i think those of you railing against lead-free solder are just complaining about "The Gubbmint won't let me do something I want to do waaaah waaaahh complain complain bitch moan."

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:24:40 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 16, 2021, 06:11:08 pmYes in china you can blow asbestos dust with a Freon ("Good" old R-12 Dichlorodifluoromethane) they are on the other extremeQuote from: jeremy on November 16, 2021, 08:03:10 amThis looks like an interesting alternative to tryJust read quality vary significantly between manufacturers

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:41:02 pm
content: Has anyone in Europe tried ordering leaded solder from Digi-Key or Mouser? They do not appear to restrict sales of leaded solder to individuals, but I have yet to try. (I got several rolls of leaded Tamura-Elsold and Stannol solder from work, so I’m set for quite some time now…)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 16, 2021, 06:24:09 pmThat, or they were dealing with early alloys that maybe weren’t as good, with equipment not quite up to the task. Then they never looked at it again, even though it’s been tweaked a ton.Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 16, 2021, 06:15:15 pmThose certainly haven’t proven to be the widespread calamity predicted 20 years ago.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 16, 2021, 06:07:11 pmIt is about lead-containing electronics going to landfills w/o proper recycling. Hopefully X-ray machines are not just dumped but recycled instead, so supposedly no problem with lead in them.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 07:24:40 pmI use Nihon Superior for SN100C, and Chipquik for bismuth alloys. I am very happy with both.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:33:29 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on November 16, 2021, 08:19:20 pmIt was not that long when it was common for electronics to end in the landfills and just anywhereToday with dedicated bins for electronics and every shop compulsory to take it back not a big issue and you do not see much thrown away in woods and riversEven when recycling is done mostly in third world countries in terrible conditions and poisons the people and environment

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:41:08 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on November 16, 2021, 08:23:56 pmSomeone here on the forum said STANNOL one is terribleI think that is a big issue as you do not see a huge difference between brands in SnPb stuffPeople might just buy some nasty stuff from even reasonably looking brand

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 09:41:17 pm
content: I am probably responsible for all of this, since I'm from Sweden. But, seriously. Lead is poisonous. I've had, as many mixed success with lead-free products; I have a Stannol lead-free roll I avoid using, because it is not very helpful. With good temperature control, it is quite OK, though.For repair of old gear, lead is of course quite necessary. I have a bunch of rolls leaded, but I restrict use of it to old stuff, to make it last and to minimise exposure and contamination.New builds are lead-free through and through, regardless of what I'm doing. I've, through other members here, found that Balver Zinn unleaded is extremely good, and a bunch of us managed to score a group buy. It feels like the old days.I've also stopped using Freon, Asbestos, and DDT. Quit smoking. I do drink, though. There are limits. But I can, OTOH, keep drinking for longer now that I've optimised wear and tear on myself.Edit: What Bassman wrote. 10 times over.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 10:11:00 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 07:55:16 amNo, most military small arms ammo is/was some form of jacketed lead. Might be steel, might be copper alloy, might be copper clad steel jacketing. Lead free versions have only recently become common. And the concern isn't necessarily about the rounds fired in war although those currently living in Vietnam or Korea might see it differently, but the far, far greater number used in practice and training. Lead (from both ammunition and paint) is one of many contaminants affecting large numbers of army bases. Lead ammunition contaminates the soil and water of the bases affecting everyone there, and shooting ranges both indoor and outdoor generate significant amounts of airborne lead dust resulting in people who regularly using them having significantly elevated lead in their bloodstream. It's funny (i..e, not funny) you should call it a "children's toy" since one of the biggest concerns is that kids growing up in the military are exposed to lead (and a bunch of other toxic chemicals -- military bases have a lot of hazards)) at rates far higher than others.I know everyone here wants to believe that lead is no big deal because leaded solder works much better, but it is really bad and eliminating it wherever possible is a good idea. No, the dozen or so pounds of lead solder a hobbyist might use in their lifetime won't cause any major problems if they use good practices but lead in commercially produced electronics, like lead in gasoline and lead in bullets is an environmental problem that we don't need.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 07:48:09 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 16, 2021, 06:07:11 pmSuggest to them another entirely unfashionable shielding material, pure cadmium. Lead seems like the happy option! ... cobalt is another alongside tungsten, practical but expensive.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 08:39:14 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 16, 2021, 07:43:33 pmThat reason. I'll admit I'm totally behind the curve, I had some awful experiences of it 10-15 years ago, since then 90% of my professional soldering needs have only been only on proto's that'll never be part of any production gear, the few minor mods I've done with lead-free on production stuff just haven't made me want to totally ditch lead. I'll be making the switch soon though with some more-commercial/mainstream clients coming through the door.Tin whiskers though! Whilst not a problem as an entity, the fearmongering! For some long service life defence stuff (so long spares storage also) you can easily end up with 25mm courtyards around some components! All it took was one person raising their arm in one relatively innocuous meeting and saying "oh, but what tin whiskers" and... I'll avoid ranting.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 08:50:40 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 16, 2021, 10:11:00 pmI'm not a military expert, but I expected it is the same in the "western part of the world" because "easter style ammo" from 7.62 family, pistol and riffles are mainly steel with a small portion of the lead to hold steel rod in the jacket (more like a solder)BTW interesting fact most soviet era electronics (even consumer) use probably something like Pb70 solder, it was really annoying to desolder if you want to scavenge some part from an old boardI support more environmentally friendly alternatives, and lead-free solder on a big scale works well. But when I cannot buy good lead-free solder in small quantities and then even simple leaded one it sucks

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 07:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 16, 2021, 10:11:00 pmLead in gasoline is the 800 lb gorilla. TEL is *really* nasty stuff, and it was used in vast quantities, causing lead contamination across virtually all corners of the globe. It's still used in avgas for piston engines, for some reason they apparently use more of it than most engines need. I've heard pilots complaining about lead fowling of spark plugs, I don't know the whole story there, I'm sure some engines must need that much.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 08:15:13 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on November 17, 2021, 07:07:55 pmMost planes and engines in them are many decades oldPiston engines developed in this millennia are designed to unleaded avgasBut it started to experiment with it in the late 90s and is available later. It looks it is not easy to make unleaded fuel to work in extreme temperature ranges.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 10:47:30 pm
content: A lot of it is just a feeling of entitlement to have nothing changed. They won't take anyone's word for it that an alternative can work, they don't want it period.The problem is not creating the alternative, the problem is the lack of political will to put a gun to their heads.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 17, 2021, 10:47:30 pmI call a politician who puts a gun to my head to force me to do something a tyrant.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:44:35 pm
content: Try not paying your taxes

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 11:59:33 pm
content: I don't like paying taxes but I recognize it is a necessary evil and that it costs money to support the infrastructure required by a civilized society. I pay taxes because I use many of the amenities my tax dollars support, not because a politician is forcing me to do it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 12:19:00 am
content: You pay taxes which pays for the guns they hold to other people's head to pay taxes they don't happen to agree with. You're the tyrant nowPS. are we having this bizarre discussion because you're an piston airplane owner/pilot and took offence to my entitlement comment?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 am
content: On the subject of leaded solder, I need to order some more. I don't use a lot of solder, but I usually keep a few different thicknesses on hand for hobbyist purposes.There are so many different formulations available with varying ratios of lead and other metals such as copper, tin, silver etc...I don't have a specific requirement for anything exotic, should I just stick with the standard 60/40 Sn/Pb stuff with a rosin core?

author: BreakingOhmsLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 12:40:07 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 amThere may be more refined stuff out there, but with this classic you can't really go wrong.Personally, i have been using 1mm STANNOL Sn60PB40 as my daily driver for 30 years, and it is great stuff IMHO.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 12:40:38 am
content: I've mentioned it before but for those who are pack-ratting solder, check that you are getting the metals you are paying for not some mislabelled ripoff. Sooner or later the fraudsters will show up. We need to identity a new fraudulent seller as you receive the items. Don't wait 10 years to discover you got dupped.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 03:17:06 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 amI grew up on 60/40 and in recent years have switched to 63/37. There's not alotin it, but I find that I get slightly better flow on hand soldering with the 63/37 - I've started getting the perfect dished fillets on the other side of plated through holes that used to elude me when I was using 60/40. I acquired some Sn62/Pb36/Ag2 solderpaste, and it has been a dream to work with. Wets everything, flows really well and leaves gleaming joints. I've been sufficiently impressed that I'm planning to acquire some similar alloy solderwirethe next time I've an order in with someone who stocks that alloy.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:00:05 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 18, 2021, 03:17:06 amSn62/Pb36/Ag2 is nice but looks like phased out as a wire. Paste and wire are still common.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:41:03 am
content: Quote from: Marco on November 18, 2021, 12:19:00 amNo, I would love to be one but that's a very expensive hobby today. Sadly the days when an ordinary middle class person could reasonably afford to own and fly a small airplane are long over.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 01:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on November 18, 2021, 06:00:05 am12 varieties of solder wire in that alloy at RS today, 2 varieties of paste.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 amWhy?What are you working on that requires lead-based solder?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:12:40 pm
content: I like how they use a ladle to plumb the wire (*no tin here AFAIK*). The lead is sculpted like clay by hand in its semi molten state.many are left in service today. If I could shrink myself down like ant man I would do all soldering this way. Pour lead into a VIA from a 'cement mixer'

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 18, 2021, 06:06:50 pmI work on lots of older equipment that was made using lead based solder. I also have never been happy with the performance of lead free when doing hobby projects, it just makes nicer joints, and the amount of lead I will use in my lifetime is negligible anyway so it's not an issue.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:54:39 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 amGo for Kester 63/37. The 3% make a difference that makes hand soldering just nicer: the lack of a plastic phase makes joints less susceptible to disturbance.I recommend Kester 44 without reservation. Digi-Key sells it in various diameters, of which 0.032” (around 0.8mm) is my favorite. (As well as versions with other fluxes which I haven’t tried.)FWIW, I’ve not been enamored by the Stannol 60/40 we use at work. It’s not bad, but the Kester is better. Stannol’s 62/36/2 is nice. Their lead-free solders work well, but I find their fluxes spit more than I like. I’ve also used Tamura-Elsold 62/36/2 and it’s great, but I don’t know of anyone that sells it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: BreakingOhmsLaw on November 18, 2021, 12:40:07 amYou should try a good 63/37 solder like the Kester I mentioned. It’ll be quite a treat!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 06:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on November 15, 2021, 08:49:56 pmQuote from: Miyuki on November 18, 2021, 06:00:05 amHaven’t you guys ever looked at Digi-Key, Mouser, or Farnell? You’d know that both of those products are still readily available.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2021, 07:14:45 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 08:41:08 pmStannol is one of the biggest solder brands. They’re not my absolute favorite, but it’s not junk.Quote from: Miyuki on November 16, 2021, 08:41:08 pmAs in, a company whose leaded product is good might have a lousy lead-free? Possibly. But it’s been so long that every reputable solder manufacturer has gotten it basically perfected by now.The most common lead-free alloys were developed years ago. I think the real technical change since the dawn of RoHS is in the fluxes. The higher temperatures burn off traditional fluxes too fast, and I think it took time to really develop fluxes that work as well as classic activated rosin without being corrosive.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 01:59:15 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 18, 2021, 06:06:50 pmBecause I can and I've mostly used leaded solder over the years, so why change now?

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 02:53:45 am
content: No good can come from change!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 03:08:52 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 20, 2021, 02:53:45 amExactly! Look at Windows 10.Seriously though, even though I do little soldering, why change from something that works for me? If it means that leaded solder flows better, then I'll keep using it. If there is a better solution out there, I'll consider that too.A roll will last me for ages, so I'd rather make the right choice.Feel free to give me a compelling reason why I shouldn't use leaded solder?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 06:26:56 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 20, 2021, 03:08:52 amAvailability will be the reason to stop using leaded solder, right now if you can get the alloy, size, and flux combination you prefer then it doesn't make much difference.For Australian delivery, Element14 have a range of Multicore and Stannol alloys and sizes with the very pleasant 362 or 366 rosin fluxes (cheaper than the sources/brands mentioned above). 62Sn/36Pb/2Ag "low melting point" is a joy to use for hobby/personal work. With a good soldering iron that you can get enough heat into the joint, even the 99Sn/1Cu alloys are fine.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 03:46:42 pm
content: I've used Kester 63/37 for decades. It works very well.Quote from: Halcyon on November 18, 2021, 12:30:58 am

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 11:06:02 pm
content: Availability isn't a concern for me (right now) in Australia. Of the top 10 cheapest rolls of solder on Element14 that were in stock and ready to ship, 8 of them contained lead. Price isn't a compelling reason either since most of the lead-free solders are more expensive.Aside from the obvious health hazards associated with ingesting lead (which can be easily mitigated), I see no reason not to use it.

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2021, 11:59:02 pm
content: Lead free solder....

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 05:20:45 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 20, 2021, 11:06:02 pmWhen a 1lb roll of solder lasts me typically around a decade, cost is never really an issue anyway. There may be some exotic solders that are absurdly expensive but nothing a hobbyist is likely to ever need.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 06:38:52 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 21, 2021, 05:20:45 amMy point still stands... why switch? No one has provided a good reason yet.I can understand not using it as a manufacturer in order to meet local/environmental requirements, but none of those apply to me.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 07:22:58 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 21, 2021, 06:38:52 amI wasn't suggesting you do. I'm still using good old 60/40. I have some 63/37 too but I actually was not all that impressed by it.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 08:35:26 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 15, 2021, 08:36:54 pmBuying solder can be a minefield.From high melting point through to solder without flux its a pain.I bought some in from China and it would barely melt.I got some off ebay and it had no flux in it !Absolutely useless.So got some from a reputable dealer RS Components and that has been great.I wont use lead free as it whiskers over long periods. Some satellites went faulty due to this.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 09:17:28 am
content: LED FREE is a liabilityIt is not meant for qualityIt has other goalsPaul

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 09:35:21 am
content: In the starting days of ROHS I remember we all got new Weller 80W soldering stations since the old 50W were not up to the job. I don't remember what the green multicore leadfree composition was, what I do remember that I had to relearn soldering since it neded higher temperature, more time to melt, it did not give this nice shine when it cooled down (a proof you soldered correctly and did not have a cold joint). It looked cooled down like a bad solderjoint matt and brittle. Then after two years when I needed to reprogram an old prototype board it did not work, i opened it up and almost all the solderjoints were literally corroded.Mind you this was one of the first alloys and it sucked big time. 1+ year later on we got new lead free solder and now over 15 years later most alloys are pretty good to solder.Still I prefer lead solder for my own stuff, just that shineEven for reflow, it is just lower temperature, less stress on the components during reflow, less risk.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 10:46:45 pm
content: I've had no problem getting Pb solder from RS or Farnell, but I used to get MG Chemicals 63/37 from Amazon UK which was really good value for money but lately there seems to be very little Pb solder available on Amazon.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2021, 10:45:54 pm
content: I wonder how much of a environmental cost is all the equipment that broke because of solder whiskers and bad lead free crap happening

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2021, 11:32:26 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 23, 2021, 10:45:54 pmI don't think its ever been tallied up, and it would be a very difficult task to put a number to it. Xbox recall was over $1billion, although you can debate if that is directly due to lead-free..If e-waste were properly disposed of, and recycled, using lead would not be an issue and would clearly be the better environmental option (https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.1533/9780857096333.4.442). The problem is it just gets dumped."Less than 40% of all e-waste in the EU is reycled, the rest is unsorted. Recycling practices vary among EU countries. In 2017, Croatia recycled 81% of all electronic and electrical waste, while in Malta, the figure was 21%."https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/society/20201208STO93325/e-waste-in-the-eu-facts-and-figures-infographic

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 01:20:32 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 23, 2021, 10:45:54 pmHow dare you!

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 01:23:52 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 23, 2021, 11:32:26 pmAny idea why Croatia are so far ahead in the game?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 01:45:35 am
content: I don't know about Croatia, but it's been a couple of decades that Brasil recycles a very significant percentage of aluminium cans (I recall 85~87%) - this is simply due to the poor economic conditions, which were conducive to people actually making a living plowing through trashcans and collecting cans from the floor.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 03:25:57 am
content: I still do but I can see merit in wanting to avoid lead as it's not exactly healthy for us, or for the environment. I have not tried lead free yet so I can't comment on if I hate it or not but from what I gather it's not as good.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 06:26:39 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 23, 2021, 10:45:54 pmProbably none, because tin whiskers aren’t a problem with lead-free solder, but with pure tin plating:https://www.indium.com/blog/pb-free-solders-are-not-the-cause-of-tin-whiskers.php

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 06:46:12 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 24, 2021, 01:23:52 amNo idea what Croatia, Estonia and Bulgaria are supposed to have in common.IMHO a better question is how it was counted, because I'm fairly sure that it wasn't somebody actually inspecting all garbage bins in those countries.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2021, 04:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 23, 2021, 11:32:26 pmThe problem here is how much is recycled (a proper way) and what portion is "recycled" by sending it to third-world countries.They will recycle it there, and most of the used components at eBay/ali are from this but it causes way worse pollution and poisoning than just dumping it will//edit: "poorer" countries have better numbers because they are using way less single-use stuff, selling scrap metal is decent money compared to income and repairs are economic because work cost is low compared to goods price (like one hour of service work in "rich country" can easily be even days of service work in the "poor country").