Keysight's new 34465A (6.5 digit) and 34470A (7.5 digit) bench multimeters - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: hopefully_reliable
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 01:51:08 pm
content: I have just come across these through the 'find a part' section of the Keysight website, in particularhttp://www.keysight.com/my/faces/fapHomePage.jspx?productNumber=34465Ahttp://www.keysight.com/my/faces/fapHomePage.jspx?productNumber=34470AA quick google later and I found the prices on the Brazilian Newarkhttp://www.farnellnewark.com.br/searchresults.aspx?page=25&sort=0&idproducttype=0&idproductcolor=0&iddept=0&nupricerangestart=1&nupricerangeend=9999999&type=1&dskeyword=agilent(conversions using xe.com)34465A - R$ 11,304.49- US$ 3,995.37 - £2,588.8034470A - R$ 23,459.78- US$ 8,290.73 - £5,372.45EDIT: As a few people have pointed out, these prices are incredibly high. Expected prices (from Dave's reply - #21) are34465A - around $150034470A - less than $3000and also a product fact sheethttp://www.tequipment.net/assets/1/7/5991-2110EN.pdf- which I've also attached, as I'm guessing it might disappear.The differences over the 34461A seem to bebetter one year accuracy - for DC volts 30 ppm (65A) and 16 ppm (70A) vs 35 ppm (34461A)higher reading rate - up to 50,000 readings/slarger memory - up to 2 million readings1 uA (and presumably 10 uA) DC ranges1 GOhm rangesupport for thermocouplescapacitance measurements (1 nF to 100 uF)dual line displayThe higher measurement speed and the larger memory are both options (which is a bit of a shame).

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 02:08:30 pm
content: nice find, have never seen these before

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 02:17:28 pm
content: Wow, 1uA current rangeAnd added cap measurement too.Obviously designed to compete with the new Keithley DMM7510

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 03:26:25 pm
content: More detailed specs. If anyone needs to make space and throw out their 34461A, I'll take it

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 03:28:22 pm
content: Strange strategy of the HP successor company...These new instrument have some slight improvements over the new (budget) 34461A, but especially in relation to these new features real premium prices. (Some more memory,2 additional current shunts, slightly better volt reference..)Obviously, they are going back to their roots.. in former times HP stood for "High Price".The 7 1/2 digit 34470A still has got no LTZ1000 reference inside, very obviously.This would make absolutely sense at that level of resolution.And also, it is as costly as the 3458A..I wonder, which kind of volt reference they use; I doubt that an LM399H can further be selected for 16ppm/yr. stability.I'm waiting for the complete specs, if these new instruments really make sense at these prices.OK, there are the specs.They claim additionally an "AUTOCAL" for these instruments.But that function is not as powerful at all as in the 3458A!The INL of the A/D is 2ppm and 1.5ppm only, and therefore not capable of performing a complete range autocal, as in the 3458A.This may only compensate some T.C. drifts of the components, nothing more.Disappointing for that price.And there are some bugs in the specs, concerning memory depth and reading speed:I assume, they offer optional 50000 rdgs/s maximum , but 50000 or optionally 2Mio readings memory depth (not 2Mio/s reading rate).The 10µA and 1µA ranges are realized by higher amplification on the same 100µA shunt..as the burden goes down by factors of ten, each. Maybe they copied Daves µCurrent circuitry?I doubt, that they can really guarantee the same accuracy on all three ranges... spec is "typical" values for these ranges.Frank

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 03:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 18, 2015, 02:17:28 pmLooks like they're going to release firmware for the 34460A/61A to add capacitance measurement too. Either that or they made a major mistake in the new spec sheets.

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 04:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: kwass on February 18, 2015, 03:50:50 pmThey are due to release a new firmware version for the 34461A on 1st March (version 2.06). I have got a pre-beta version, but they have asked me to keep quiet on any additions they have added. However, they are increasing the version number from 1.10 to 2.06, so you can make what you want of that ...

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 04:51:08 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on February 18, 2015, 03:28:22 pmCould thermally shielding the LM399, or placing it in an additional oven, significantly help with the long term stability?The 34461A has a fan at the back which blows air directly across its LM399 voltage reference, which I've always thought was a little odd. Whilst the 34465A and 34470A both have this same fan, might they have boxed it up?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 05:03:23 pm
content: Here's to hoping Dave ends up with one of each in the next few days!

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 05:22:05 pm
content: 34465A - R$ 11,304.49 - US$ 3,995.37 - £2,588.80•better one year accuracy - for DC volts 30 ppm (65A)8846A is 24ppm 1 year DC for $1500.00

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 05:32:26 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on February 18, 2015, 05:22:05 pmYeah but they changed their name, they've got a couple million new stickers to pay for..

author: rodpp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 06:33:04 pm
content: This price is in Brazil, normally much more expensive.In US or Europe probably it´ll be cheaper.For example, in the same brazilian website the 34461A is R$5,798,34 or US$2,050.

author: KA3YAN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 07:15:59 pm
content: I'm totally fine sticking with my Fluke 8846A. It might not have the snazzy color screen, but the specs are the same or superior in most aspects. It doesn't have the extraordinarily fast max reading rate (only a mere 1000 per second) but hey, you can't have EVERYTHING.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 07:16:20 pm
content: Quote from: rodpp on February 18, 2015, 06:33:04 pmFor some context, iPhones used to be sold officially in Brazil for almost twice the price. Playstation 4 launch price? US$1400 vs. US$400 on Amazon. Brasilians often complain about this here in the EEVBlog forum. It's because of import taxesIt's so bad, actually, that Apple started manufacturing iPhones in Brazil just to stay competitive in that market.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 09:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on February 18, 2015, 03:28:22 pmRumor has it they were working in a 3458A replacement, but this doesn't seem to be it. The same price is a bit crazy though.QuoteI was thinking it's likely to be an amp as well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 09:23:55 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on February 18, 2015, 05:03:23 pmHaven't heard a thing.I'm getting the new Keithley one though, that will be interesting to look inside.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 09:51:04 pm
content: When I saw the price for the 34470A, I thought"mighty close to the pricepoint for the 3458A".for the 34470A They would need to drop the price by half, in order to match the newest Keithley.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2015, 11:53:52 pm
content: The 34470A looks interesting but for that price I think I really would buy a good working 3458A

author: es
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 01:21:13 am
content: I'm guessing the pricing should be around $1500 and $3100 for the 34465A and 34470A respectively.If you look at the price of other Keysight gear at the Brazilian site in the first post, the conversion rate is about 8 times.For example, the MSOX3104T is listed at R$ 118.353,46 while it's $15,400 in the US.

author: rodpp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 05:04:33 am
content: The conversion rate in that site is, let me say, unreliable.DSOX3014A - R$12,821.78 - US$3,950MDO3014 - R$13,949.20 - US$3,99034461A -R$5,798.34 - US$1.100Fluke 87V - R$2,490.00 - US$340U1733C - R$1,099.56 - US$432US$ prices from tequipment.comSo, it ranges from 2.5 to 8.My guess is that the conversion rate will be similar to the 34461A, about 5.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 05:14:13 am
content: Is it me or that "peak" function on this screenshot doesn't exist in the current firmware?There is also the "Time" option instead of just NPLC.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 05:30:51 am
content: I have it on very good authority that those prices are completely wrong.The 34465A will be around US$1500The 34470A will be <US$3000Options will cost extra, in the order of hundreds of dollars.And yes, I might be able to get one soon for teardown.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 05:47:26 am
content: Another note: the 34465A's DCV specs are given as 30ppm (reading), but only for Cal Temp +/-2C vs. +/-5C. So without ACAL, it actually has worse specs than the 34461A outside of the +/-2C range.So the improved baseline accuracy of the 34465A vs. 34461A is more creative accounting than anything else. ACAL improves the temp coefficient, but the base spec is basically the same.The 34470A quotes the DCV spec at +/- 5C.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 06:33:31 am
content: Dave, since you have bunch of 6.5+ meters already, might consider to have comparison between them in same conditions, using DC standard and foil resistors.Something like you did with handhelds, roundup of bench meters, since there is no such material on web usually.Your MV106 should be stable within 10ppm if ambient temperature kept +-2°C.Interesting to know, thatAgile...doh..Keysight offersvoltage reference PCB (if PCA stands for PCB Assembly) for $334 USD.This price is enough to allow using LTZ1000 with few VPG foils

author: hopefully_reliable
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 19, 2015, 12:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 19, 2015, 05:30:51 amI thought they were high, but I didn't check the prices for known products - sorry everyone. But I have changed the first post to include your figures, so no one gets confused.