What cad software should I use - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Tom10000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 11:49:01 am
content: Hello,I have started using the free version of eagle and I also have been using Altium circuit maker (free) and I also have some experience with Kicad but in the long run wich cad software do you think is the best for a beginnerFrom Tom10000

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:11:24 pm
content: I would stay away from Eagle, now that it's been Autodesk'd. (If you were already an Eagle expert, that would be a harder choice; as a novice, no reason to develop skills in Eagle.)I've chosen Kicad, but I'm only months ahead of you on the journey. For me, it's a bet that Kicad will continue to evolve and probably faster than my needs will evolve. Being open source and "free as in beer" in addition is a huge bonus.

author: tizi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on May 03, 2017, 12:11:24 pm+1

author: ^_^
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:50:58 pm
content: I'd say what's best for beginners in PCB CAD is the amount of libraries.First time I changed to KiCad few years ago, I remember looking at poor number of built-in components and it struck me!However, what matters most IMO are the footprints. Making symbols is easy and it's good to learn to make the components yourself (as well as footprints, but that's way harder).Nowadays as there are more people using KiCad, the amount of libraries gets bigger through sharing.So it's surely good way to go.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:57:48 pm
content: My 2c...For schematic and pcb layout: DipTraceFor mechanical: Fusion 360I'm sure other packages will probably work fine tooHave fun!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 07:27:11 pm
content: I second that, KiCad is great, I've been using it for years and it meets all of my needs, but yeah if you have access to one of the high end pro tools it's worth getting familiar with it. In my experience once you learn the process it's relatively easy to transition from one tool to another and learn the quirks, the workflow is largely similar.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 08:17:13 pm
content: I'm not really sure why knowing KiCad doesn't get you anywhere, IMO if you know one EDA and can design nice boards then you can learn any other EDA relatively easily. Designing good boards is the part that requires skill, the tool is just a tool, they all work similarly.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:11:16 pm
content: Quote from: Tom10000 on May 03, 2017, 11:49:01 amBy your other post I see you are still quite young and can learn things we old farts struggle with.If you think the EE path is for you, then stick with CM and use it as experience for AD in the future.Watch how Dave uses AD in this series of vids:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-948-nixie-tube-display-project-part-1/

author: Tom10000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:50:48 pm
content: Hello,I want say thank you for helping me i was talking to one of my teachers at my school that teaches maths and electronics he said that the school as a whole heap of Altium circuit studio licenses and he would let me use one of the licenses of Altium Circuit studio.Thankyou,From Tom10000

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:15:30 pm
content: Great, yeah definitely take advantage of that opportunity, if you can say you know Altium that's worthy of going on the resume.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: Tom10000 on May 03, 2017, 09:50:48 pmMagic.While you have access to teachers that know some of EE, suck their brains for all you can. Get up to speed on all maths and focus your efforts very strongly there. Maths will be your greatest tool in a EE career and more important than any equipment you will own. Use the next few years wisely, study hard but keep your EE interest as a hobby to develop skills.The best of luck for you young fella and may all your polarities align for your future.

author: ^_^
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 10:09:49 am
content: Actually, being fully a KiCad guy myself, I've also taken what you guys said into the account and registered for 15-day free trial of Altium Designer.It seems you just need to provide the company you work for, job title, some other info and it's on.The trial starts as you get the email, not at first run!Hope to expand my skills as well, good luck!

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 10:37:50 am
content: Avoid any package that's cloud based.Your future employer is likely to be using a licensed product such as OrCAD, so what ever you learn as a home package won't translate.I spent thousands of hours using Concept/ Allegro (now called Allegro HDE I think). It took a very short time to switch to OrCAD when I moved companies three years ago.I still use OrCAD if the design is being shipped out for PD at an external company. If we're doing a small PCB, then Eagle was used until they went all cloudy. I'm working on a KiCAD design now. Schematic capture is easy, & it seems to have a fair selection of standard footprints. I've not yet tried to draw a footprint or do any layout.I don't agree that it takes ages to learn each tool (unless you're talking about scripting in Concept). Swapping from tool to tool is relatively painless, but then I've been paid to design 40 hours a week for the last 20 odd years. YMMV.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 06:07:38 pm
content: It took me ages to learn the first tool, but I tried 5 or 6 EDAs back when I first started before I finally settled on KiCad and I found it got easier each time to learn the next. I tried everything I could get my hands on at the time, inexpensive hobby oriented, a couple of expensive commercial products, I designed pretty much the same board in each EDA and in the end I came to the conclusion that they all suck but most of them will do the job once you learn the quirks. At the time, the expensive professional tools were better than KiCad, but not better enough for me to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars for them. If I were designing something complex like PC motherboards or RF/microwave stuff I might feel differently.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 08:25:27 pm
content: If you have the budget, I would say go with CS.For mechanical, go with Fusion 360 (its free for non-commercial / home use). What is worth checking ishttp://www.openscad.orgI tried the others, but what a waste of time ....(in retro perspective).As someone wrote here: if a hobby doesn't cost money, find another hobby

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 08:42:59 pm
content: EAGLE is radioactive at this point. Stay away.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 09:49:52 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on May 05, 2017, 08:42:59 pmThat might be the case, but it (still) has the most resources online for beginners/hobbyists (no thanks to AD).KiCad is probably the closest to those high end pro tools and w/o limitations that other free ones have, but you might end up investing quite a lot of your time setting it up, far from plug and play for a beginner.DipTrace somehow just feels the most natural to use. Quite intuitive UI.Whichever you choose just stick to it until you get some PCBs designed, from there trying a different tool will be a lot easier. Don't think there is a "bad" choice, it is not something that will determine your life.This is coming from someone who was recently in your position.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 09:55:47 pm
content: I think that will change fairly quickly though. Eagle has effectively thrown their entire hobby user base under the bus, or rather AD has. The hobby users will quickly transition to other products, KiCad likely taking most of them.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 10:24:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 03, 2017, 08:17:13 pmas someone who guides interns i can say the following: it takes a good month before they can stand on their own legs ( even if they know eagle or kicad) . ask em to do anything complex like layerstack setups, library creation , write or modify scripts and they drown ... even making a simple symbol or footprint takes 5 times longer than it need to be. because they do not know the powerful commands available that the simple tools do not have.it's like watching them assemble a box and they use a handsaw and a hammer. while there is a whole automated workshop with state of the art machinery available.Once you teach them when advanced commands then they get up to speed fast. with invariably the comment that the tools they were using really are nothing but glorified pen and paper.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 12:31:51 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 05, 2017, 10:24:10 pmSo so a month to bring a new employee up to speed? That sounds pretty reasonable to me, I've worked in software and bringing on a new software engineer usually takes at least that long. Even if they already have years of experience they have to learn the specific tools and procedures and become familiar with the existing codebase.I would imagine that their reaction has more to do with the fact that somebody taught them all the advanced commands and shortcuts of the new tool than necessarily being an indicator of shortcomings in the tool they were used to. Any complex piece of software is going to have lots of timesaving features that a person may not discover without someone experienced teaching them the tricks.I remain of the opinion that knowing how to design PCBs is the important part, it's a skill that not everyone can do. Pretty much anyone can learn the tools.