Airhorn for my (upcomming) Bike - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:10:04 pm
content: I will buy 2 Horn (or Makrofone) just like that:I found a Company who produce them. The told me I have to drive them with 5 - 10 Bar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_(unit)) for 134- 139 dB(A) in 1m.Enough for the Stupid Kiddys with there Sound suppressing In Ear Headphones.So the question is does anyone know a small Air Electic Compressor?Linus show us a easy way to make my Own Power Pack:https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/981526-diy-lithium-battery-what-could-go-wrong/That should enough Juice to drive an Pump and an Electromagnetic Valve.Sure I will use a 2 Tone Makrofone. One 370Hz and 660 Hz.So I gues I need:1x Automatic Air compressor for 10 Bar.1x Airtank (how many L?) for 10 Bar.2x Magnetic Air Valvea Electric Switch, Some Wire and Tubing.Right?THX!

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:14:33 pm
content: There must be a way to compress the air at home and simply release as needed instead of carrying around all that garbage?How many times do you think you'll be able to use this until either Die Polizei or a passerby re-arrange your face?

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:25:35 pm
content: QuoteSure but the Air Tanks are going to be very huge. I will need them often since the People here drive like crazy. Driver think the Light and Road Signs are just a recommendation.Quotehttps://www.oeamtc.at/thema/fahrrad/fahrradausstattung-definition-sicherheit-und-ausstattung-17153166QuoteLong Storry short: "Even a Horn is Permitted".So for Bikes there is NO Regulation (yet) who define what the max Noise Level is. For Cars there is a Regulation but not for a Bike.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:26:24 pm
content: A 3000 PSI air gun tank and a regulator would work, no? Much lighter?

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:31:22 pm
content: If there any kind of local noise ordinances, then yeah, that's not going to be allowable by them. And if it actually comes to using it, the only one within 1m will be you, so make sure you have good hearing protection... like 20-30dB worth of attenuation would get it to the safe exposure range in limited bursts, but extended exposure or consecutive days of exposure could still do damage in that case.I wouldn't bother with rigging a switch. Get a mechanical valve that can be pulled like a switch, then rely on your electric compressor's pressure limit shut-off switch, then tank capacity just depends on how long you want to be able to have it go.To be clear, though, this isn't a good idea. Not only is the sound level potentially damaging to your own and others' hearing, but the shock factor of such a loud sound WILL cause people to suddenly do unexpected things, and that kind of reaction causes accidents.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:40:32 pm
content: So when a Train use the Horn in the Railway Station or in Front of a Railway Station the must be save to.Trust me here its common to hear a Train Horn frequently.I am just annoyed... And the Sound is travelling away from my Bike so the dont infect me that much.When stupid People with there InEar walk on a Bike Lane you can ring the Bell for Hours and the dont intend to move. There is some much more powerfull required. The same for Stupid Dogs who sitt there and dont want to move.I also will buy a small Trailer who look like a Golfbag there will be enoght space for that stuff.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on October 22, 2018, 05:31:22 pmYup he can expect:- Lawsuits for causing permanent eardamage- Persons that will practice their martial arts or baseballbat skills on his head and bodyand probably no judge will convict them since he started the attack with purposely causing extreme loud sounds to shock people.I do sympathise with the phone-zombies but that does not mean you have to attack them.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:49:36 pm
content: A train horn is never that close to your ears and is never a long exposure to the people at the station. The people operating it are farther than 1m from it and are inside the engine, so it is significantly attenuated (though some still use hearing protection).110dB is enough to do permanent damage with only a few minutes of consecutive exposure. 115dB is about the loudest any acoustic instrument can manage (except for drums, maybe), in the 130s is the threshold of pain from hearing a sound. 120dB is enough to start risking permanent hearing damage with even very short exposures.With the current plan you'll have people acting erratically right in your path when you want them to get out of the way, permanent hearing loss after the first day on the town, and besides being a public nuisance, you'll probably end up with some lawsuits in fairly short order (or, at least, you would in the US.)

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 05:58:35 pm
content: QuoteFor Trains is Permitted to.QuoteNormally I carry a Pepperspray and atleat one Knife. So the will not only deb...QuoteNope I stay in law who say I can use any acoustic device for a warn people for an upcoming accident.QuoteYou think its better to hit them with 25kmh? I am a very Tall and Overweight Guy so you can calculate your own what that mean in therm of Speed vs. stopping distance. Ist like a Truck break on the Snelweg.Quoteok 2m away from the Horn to the Humain Ear.Do you every was on the Platform when the Honk?I hear if from time to time when stupid kids sitt next to the Tracks.Since there is now law who regulate what is "to loud" I cant be violate it.And when Its permitted on a Train so I can use it to. Ok I can reduce some dB with a lower Pressure but it must be heard for many M.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 06:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on October 22, 2018, 05:58:35 pmYou are not a train.Trains are allowed to drive 250km/hour you are not.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 06:19:57 pm
content: QuoteNope speed Limit 230kmh!Sure I could when I accelerate down from the Semmering by Gravity.

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:02:16 pm
content: I think you're looking for something likeThe Hornster.But I'm skeptical about if that's legal.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:13:26 pm
content: How about a smell gun? Something that releases mercaptans or butyls.... That's memorable too.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:19:55 pm
content: @TwoflowerSure the Idea is not new.Why not? In Austria is not law who say who loud your Bike have to be.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:21:47 pm
content: There's no law (that you know of) specific to bikes because its ridiculous to have a horn like that on one and no one has pushed it to need regulation at that point... sounds like you want to be the one to get that law on the books!In any case, a realistic and much safer option would be to use a car horn. Easier to drive, tops out around 110dB which while still is quite loud is actually a sound level you can expect on the road and one which won't damage hearing with just a few seconds of exposure. 110dB is going to be more than enough to be noticed by people walking around, even with earbuds in, unless they're already destroying their hearing with the volume level on them. A car horn would still be obnoxious and could still get complaints filed, but it's at least safe for limited exposure.I feel like these absurd sound level project ideas come up on this forum every few months, and I think the only reason they do is because people don't understand how hearing loss works and what's a reasonable loud level. If you were going to weld you'd wear a welding mask that would block out almost all the light from it, and you wouldn't weld on the side of a busy street so that passer-bys could look over and accidentally go temporarily blind from looking at it, and people would complain about it and get it stopped, even if it's not explicitly illegal at the moment. A 139dB horn at just a couple of meters from unexpecting pedestrians is enough so that they're just as likely to grab their ears and bend over in pain in the bike lane as they are to try to get out of your way - it's not a good solution to your problem and it makes the situation more dangerous for you and the people you're using it on (and anyone who happens to be close enough).

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:26:05 pm
content: The law issue might arise not directly arise from 'no limits on the loudness of a bike bell/horn' but putting the hearing of other people in danger might provide a conflict-point with the law (e.g. Körperverletzung).But as laws are very localized and I'm not even an expert in laws in my own country I can't provide a definitive answer.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 08:25:52 pm
content: Maybe start with something friendlierhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WLtoys-V959-V222-V262-V333-V912-V666-RC-Quadcopter-Parts-Water-Cannon/142647043568?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3D9d3c2e9e8287418f81daa09a41cc0910%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D311064687306%26itm%3D142647043568&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 08:32:56 pm
content: The problem will not be the 8 or 10 Bar but the airflow you need 8 Bar at. Have you got a figure of how many liters per second you need?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 08:42:39 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on October 22, 2018, 05:58:35 pmI honestly thought Austria was a nicer place.Why not just use a PA piezo horn tweeter and driver. I'm sure you could achieve sufficient loudness much more simply.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 08:45:45 pm
content: I would go with a scooter/car horn instead. Electric will last much longer, air is an option as well but doesn't last more than a few times.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-Rechargeable-Bicycle-Bell-Electric-Horn-MTB-Mountain-Road-Cycling-Warn-Rings-Bicycle-Accessories-High-Quality/32858778443.html(premade unit)https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V-135DB-Black-Car-Horn-13-x-10-x-9-cm-Snail-Waterproof-Horn-for-Almost/32872078541.htmlhttps://www.amazon.ca/Delta-Cycle-AH1000-Airzound-Bike/dp/B000ACAMJCYou could power one from a high current 18650 (they draw really high pulse currents). Louder versions are available with a plastic snail horn, of course downside is larger size and weight. I've seen 6 and 12V option, two li-ion and the 6V version might be simpler to drive.Planning on building my own at some point.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 09:54:14 pm
content: The simplest solution is usually the best:Rated at 115dB (not sure what weighting curve they used, but 115dB is very loud regardless). Small, compact, easily transported and operated, zero additional infrastructure (read: no pumps nor power sources). Costs under USD 20.00. There are even smaller versions for under USD 10.00, shipped by Amazon to your door. Search for "marine emergency horn" and similar phrases, they are also sold at Walmart and virtually every sporting goods store. In my state it is a legal requirement to have one on every vessel so they're plentiful and cheap.As a technical project I like it, but if your actual goal is a really loud horn this would be a great way to quickly gain experience.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 10:22:11 pm
content: I swear the uses this guy comes up for electronics are ridiclous. Next thing you know its gonna be how to design a fan that fits on your cock so you can destroy NATO bathrooms.How about you don't do something completely retarded. Putting a solenoid between one of those compressed air cans and a horn for optimum mounting, and maybe a gas delivery system so you can mount the tank in a place different then the horn would be a good project. Mounting ship and train electronics on a bicycle is not. Someone is gonna find your pattern and hit you with a stick around a corner or throw a brick at your head if you piss them off with ultra damaging loud noises.

author: tomato
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 02:03:02 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 22, 2018, 10:22:11 pmYou're going to have to explain that one. On second thought ... no, don't.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 02:42:24 am
content: read the ham forum, he wanted a how to on trolling nato air defense with balloons filled with chaff .. his engineering ideas are just 'bad ideas'.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 03:41:12 am
content: yeah no need all that shit. you just need 20 canadian dollar, or equivalent there of...https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/12V-178db-Car-Air-Horn-Super-Loud-Dual-Trumpet-Kit-Train-Truck-Horns-Compressor/113176245233?hash=item1a59d473f1:g:jugAAOSwfSJbX1Jy:rk:6:pf:0"12V Super-loud Air Horn powerful dual horns blare out a warningthat can't be ignored"

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 07:18:06 pm
content: Please, just don’t.Nobody wants to be blasted by a super loud horn.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 08:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: apblog on October 23, 2018, 07:18:06 pmThere's a lot of YouTube prank videos of people doing this with horns installed in automobiles. I'll admit, I laughed, but as I said you can accomplish the same effect with a marine "air horn can" for under ten bucks. And it would probably be way more effective on a bicycle anyway, because it could be kept completely invisible in a coat pocket. You could act as surprised as everyone else. Imagine the increase in the fun factor!

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 11:18:17 pm
content: I’m probably going to hear form many of the safety experts on this forum, but here is my suggestion:Compressed CO2 is what you are looking for, like paintball and counter top carbonators use. The CO2 is liquid under pressure and becomes a tremendous volume of gaseous CO2 when released. Aluminum bottles are available that will keep the weight down. Fill fittings for the bottles are available cheaply on fleabay that have useful connections but you’ll need a regulator and solenoid valve.You can also fill the small bottles from a larger bottle for substantial cost savings; put the small bottle in the freezer and the larger one in the sun to warm it, use a suitable high pressure connection hose, turn the larger bottle upside down to get the liquid to flow and open the valves. Be sure to weigh the smaller bottle and not over fill it. None of this is without danger; be careful.I have a MIG welder that uses paintball CO2 bottles and they last a surprising amount of time; I refill them myself.A compressor and air tank would be bulkier than a CO2 setup.