Building a workshop - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 03:13:00 pm
content: Hi AllSo I am finally in a position where I have space for a workshop (albeit a small one, but it's a start!). So as for test gear I have 2 options for my budget:Ebay - Get big brands (Tektronix, HP (eventually they will circle back to using the HP name...)etc.), but no guarantee it works, limited/no warranty etc...Cheap brands - Would get warranty, but not sure I'd trust the name.So basically, some advice would be great. I have little to no experience with cheap kit so have no idea about build quality, etc. I see Rigol mentioned a lot here, and from what I can gather they are relatively good, but are there any other trusted cheap brands? It's only gonna be a hobby shop so doesnt need to be amazing kit, but relatively modern as I want to dabble with writing software so ideally I'd like some form of interface bus (USB is probably easiest). Like I say I'm not after top-notch performance, but I want reliability/durability. Dont want to buy cheap and have to replace it every 6 months.What I'm looking to start with is:ScopeBench DMMWaveform GeneratorDC PSUCounter (maybe... DMM with Hz function will probably suffice for now)So yeah, any comments?

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 03:29:52 pm
content: Rigol make most of the devices you're looking for and they're pretty good.I bought a DS1074z-S (scope with waveform generator) because it was very compact vs a DS1054z + DG1022. They make a decent triple output power supply and bench meter, Dave reviewsand usesplenty of Rigol stuff on his video blog. I don't have a bench meter, I simply don't have a real need for one.I also have a UNI-T61E which is a nice multimeter with a 200MHz counter. I also have a cheap & cheerful MK168 component tester which is a really handy device.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 03:51:49 pm
content: As usual I recommend getting a Vici VC8145 bench DMM. Their value for money is hard to beat for general purpose work.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 03:58:19 pm
content: Thanks guys.I like the sound of the DS1074z-S. Having a Scope and wave gen in on unit would be ideal!

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 04:03:19 pm
content: What about OWON? Anyone used one of their scopes? They look nice but is it all show and no go?

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 05:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: KSP on March 31, 2015, 03:58:19 pmEh, if you really want a compact setup it's okay, but the built in function generator isn't that great. Maximum excursion is only +/- 2.5V, it doesn't remember settings on power on, the interface is clunky for setting amplitude/offset, and they missed in my opinion the biggest opportunities in building it into the scope: you can't display the waveform directly without looping the output back to one of the input channels. The extra cost would be better spent towards a dedicated function gen in my opinion.

author: lukaq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 05:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: KSP on March 31, 2015, 04:03:19 pmI have owned it before and I won't ever again. it was 200MHz, 2Gs/s but it was also 650€ and SLOW, slow update rate,..

author: Trey
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 05:19:19 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on March 31, 2015, 05:05:02 pmI agree and unless space-constrained, I am not a fan of all-in-one instruments (or anything else) -- personally, I'd rather get the specific features I want in dedicated instruments. Also, you can upgrade or augment them individually over time if you decide you need to. For example, I just bought a new signal generator and sold my old one on eBay. Previously I bought a new 1054z scope and sold a "classic" HP 54602b on eBay -- I think it cost me about $100 to "upgrade" (yeah, HP to Rigol is a brand downgrade, but a couple of decades of technology and an order of magnitude more samples per second plus color is nice).Think about what you want to do and then figure out what you _need_ (it may be less than you think). You can always add more, but buyer's remorse is no fun.First and foremost, consider safety especially if you plan to doanywork on high voltage.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 05:44:23 pm
content: Quote from: KSP on March 31, 2015, 03:13:00 pmWell I would definitely buy the Rigol DS1054z and "upgrade" it. There really is nothing better on the market right now for the price range.A bench DMM? Well I looked at the Vici VC8145 as a cheap bench meter as many people here have recommended it but the build quality isn't that great. For the price I guess it is OK. Instead I purchased a used Keithley 197 for a lower price and it will outlast anything Vici makes.I am not a fan of "All In One" instruments. IMHO separate instruments give you the better options of getting what you want in each instrument. You also have the option to change each one as time goes on. In my case after lots of looking I decided on the Siglent SDG1025. I am very happy with it.There are so many power supplies available it is hard to say which to buy, especially without a price range. If you can spend the money the Rigol DP832 will be a good investment but some people balk at spending that much for a PS.For a frequency counter I purchased a Victor VC3165 on the recommendations of others. It works OK, but the build quality is pretty low and the reason I would stay away from the Vici bench meter as Vici tends to be built worse than VIctor. I guess for the price I should be happy with it as it stays pretty accurate over a wide range of temperatures.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:05:38 pm
content: Thanks guysI have to admit, upon googling the Vici I was not impressed (aesthetically), it looked a bit like a toy meter. But yes I get what you mean about all in one units.A DMM is not a priority right now as I have a "borrowed" Agilent 34410A, hopefully It will get forgotten about by the original owner asBut thanks for steering me clear of OWON I was nearly drawn in by the shiny screen and colourful dialsSo for scopes I think I'm pretty sold on the Rigol

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:09:10 pm
content: The DS1054z, has a long waiting list as it's so popular. Blame Dave

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:12:21 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on March 31, 2015, 05:44:23 pmIMHO that is just a load of crap. If you look at the teardown pictures you'll see the VC8145 is soldered properly and uses quality parts (including a rather expensive DAC). There is just not much electronics in there but... when it comes to electronics: less is better. Sure you can be happy with an old DMM but that lacks many of the features the VC8145 offers. My old 4.5 digit HP bench DMM is now in storage because the VC8145 is simply better in many ways.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:29:15 pm
content: I started building a bench on budget about 18 months ago. The goal was to tip-toe my business into electronics so my focus was perhaps a little different than a pure hobbyist. I already had the basic 'technicians' tools - Fluke 87, Weller WES51 soldering station, and a large variety of hand tools. I purchased a Rigol scope DS1102E after using my ex-partners TEK scope. The Rigol was able to get me up to speed on the basics and through some simple design work. Eventually I needed 4 channels and higher bandwidth so I started looking at scopes.I found that what I really needed/wanted would need financing and what I could afford immediately was likely used. A new 500 Mhz 4ch Rigol was substantially more money than a Tek TDS754C on eBay ($900 US). Since I got that scope, I have not even turned my Rigol on. I got some nice passive and active probes as well as a differential probe. The 16 year old Tek is WAAAY better than the Rigol. I setup a GPIB system to capture data. It was a great decision for me to get the old Tek and hs put me much closer to being able to afford the big boy Keysight scope. I don't have any real specific griped about Rigol but I can tell they are focused on making the cheapest product they can. The staple brands are no infallible, but they generally are focused on making a great product and then deciding how much it should cost at the end (over simplified).For other gear, I have been very happy with old HP power supplies as well. The eBay/used route has given me tremendous bang for the buck at the expense of a little risk. I even got a pick and place machine used and saved TONS of money.I am not saying I would never buy Rigol again, but my experience buying older high-end gear has been very rewarding.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: BlueBill on March 31, 2015, 07:09:10 pmI did notice they were out of stock and you have to join a mailing list lolThough there are a few on ebay, shipped from Hong Kong so not sure if they are legit

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:35:56 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on March 31, 2015, 07:29:15 pmI have my eye on a Tek TDS3054B which has been written off by my company as it fails its self test. I think with a bit of tinkering I could get it working, and if I can brush up to the right people it may even be free since its already off the books.Heres hoping.But if not then I do like the look of the Rigol purely for the fact that they are quite cheap for a useable new instrument and you get warranty etc.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:41:48 pm
content: The TDS3054B will round of steam quick. It only has 10kpts of memory. I have looked into it as well but decided not to sink a large chunk of change into it. Long memory is sooo handy to look at signals. Just capture once and zoom in later.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2015, 07:12:21 pmFair enough. I was just stating my opinion based on what I saw here and the reputation of Keithley and my experience with them in the past. A load of crap? LOL, maybe.It seems the subject of the Vici causes a lot of polarization.

author: Stupid Beard
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: KSP on March 31, 2015, 07:30:17 pmNot sure if this is what you mean by mailing list, but if you used a stock notification mailer thing then you will never get one. They have a tendency to sell out before the shipment even arrives, so if you want one it's best to pre-order and wait.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2015, 07:51:06 pm
content: Quote from: Stupid Beard on March 31, 2015, 07:49:33 pmYes that is what I meant and no I was not aware of that! Thanks

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:23:20 am
content: What about Hantek or GW Instek?Hantek look to be based somewhat on the Tek TDS range

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:46:07 am
content: I'd investigate well before going for a Hantek. GW Instek rebrands a lot of cheaper gear so I wouldn't buy something with the GW Instek brand on it but get the cheaper 'original' instead.

author: KSP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:58:09 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2015, 09:46:07 amAfter a short search I found a review of the HANTEK DSO5102B and I was very impressed (so was the writer). And at a price of around £200GBP I am very drawn in...I'm just waiting now for someone to tell me their bad experiences with Hantek, as I'm sure there's a catch (there always is)