Micsig scopes and segmented memory - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 04:05:51 pm
content: Hello, I was planning on buying a Micsig STO1004 but I realized it doesn't have segmented memory. From the searches Ive done only the old models STO2000C have that feature, but the scope is unavailable.Micsig website information is not to clear about it.Does anyone knows what new models from Micsig includes Segmented memory?Thank you

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 04:16:30 pm
content: TO-series from ATO2004 & TO2004 and up..

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 06:55:23 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 30, 2023, 04:16:30 pmThank you for sharing. So only the tablet scopes had the Segmented memory, I'm more interested in a scope with touch screen and buttons like the STO family, I see I have to think a little more about this purchase

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2023, 10:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: ptluis on September 30, 2023, 06:55:23 pmYep, I'm not familiar with Segmented memory in any of the lower-end entry scopes from Micsig.Migsig sadly moved away from knobs on both A/TO & ETO series and even their quite popular STOxxxxC/E series went from rotary knobs to 4way-joysticks but I reckon Micsig are starting to realize, even though they have a great optimized touch interface, people still value knobs on scopes.They have a new model coming to market, called "MDO" which should arrive in December 2023, but that release date aint written in stone so take it with a pinch of salt, and as far as I can tell it's their ETO model just been refitted with knobs.Micsig's ETO-model is an expensive model I don't recall seeing sold officially anywhere outside of China, and not cheap +3K..more or less their flagship, and the same goes for MDO which would likely have segmented memory with a physical button interface but obviously another price segment.MDO modelhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-micsig-scope-with-knobs-(again)/msg4854149/#msg4854149The Micsig STO2xxx? units with segmented memory, wasn't it only 2 channel models and not any 4 channel units? like STO2202C & STO2302C (both 2 ch.)example of Migsigs segmented memory..

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2023, 08:51:12 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 30, 2023, 10:08:35 pmI'm trying to contact Micsig about their scopes since last friday, through website and AliExpress and haven't got a response. Are they in trouble? or simply don't care about inquirie?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2023, 10:13:42 pm
content: All of China is on a holiday this week

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2023, 11:55:09 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 30, 2023, 10:08:35 pmI definitely don't have that on my STO1104C.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 12:15:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 02, 2023, 10:13:42 pmok so that's the reason, I'll wait then. thanks

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 12:19:29 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 02, 2023, 11:55:09 pmi don't understand why they didn't include the feature on this model. it's really usefull specially when we need to find an injector misfiring

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 08:59:24 am
content: So, I got an answer today from Micsig and currently only TO2004, TO3004, ATO2004 and ATO3004 have segmented memory

author: maralb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 11:27:07 am
content: Here is a detailed review of the TO3004 (in German language) which also describes the use of segmented memory (at around 26min40sec).https://youtu.be/fucKMSQPp0M?si=Tb4TuH96lwpLSK8o

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 07:56:43 am
content: Quote from: maralb on October 07, 2023, 11:27:07 amUseful video indeed, I think I'll go for TO2004, TO3004 seems to have some fan noise problems.Anyone knows a good online store to buy this scope on Europe? also a discount coupon would be nice.

author: maralb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 08:09:07 am
content: The TO2004 would be my choice too for the same reason.https://eleshop.eu/micsig-oscilloscopes.htmlhttps://www.batronix.com/shop/micsig/TO.htmlI think you can't go wrong with these shops.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 10:45:15 am
content: Quote from: maralb on October 09, 2023, 08:09:07 amThank you!Batronix are selling a TO2004 PLUS? Micsig doesn't have a plus model! What version is this? do you know?

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 01:15:32 pm
content: Quote from: ptluis on October 09, 2023, 10:45:15 amIts a model with a single incl. battery... (scope with 1 battery)take the batronix "plus" with a pinch of salt.. all models are "plus" as in a Micsig scope with its corresponding 1x battery.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 02:50:53 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on October 09, 2023, 01:15:32 pmOk thanks

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 09:07:30 am
content: Here it is the official response from Micsig

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 02:03:31 pm
content: As explained the "Plus" signifies a battery.. and seems to be third-party ChananagangMaybe a dated term from when some were sold without batteries.All Batronix Micsig-models. are labeled with the "plus" labelhttps://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.htmlAnd it's not just "Batronix" that confuses possible customers (like you) with labels like these, it's also used in China, among Chinese resellers, on fx Aliexpress & likewise.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468919797.html?andhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005679680623.htmlI don't recall I have seen Micsig operate with it officially, so could simply be down to third-party vendors jack'ng of consumers, "it's a "plus" model with a strap-on (hand strap) battery, mat screen protector etc. - in the hope they choose them, instead of other resellers, simply because that listing got the "plus" label - as "plus" gotta be better than other models without the "plus".

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 02:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on October 10, 2023, 02:03:31 pmMarketing thing, I understand, but annoying when it's necessary to make choices and time is short. Anyway TO2004 is on my list for the moment. There's not much offers on tablet scopes or battery operated scopes from other brands, I haven't found one tablet scope that could do bode plotting. If I buy the Micsig I'll have to manual bode plot like in the old days and that's kind of annoying, or i could try Dave's approach like he showed on YouTube many years ago. I don't do alot of BP but some times is necessary. I know there's other brands with better and more complete options, but they're not battery operated. Well decisions, decisions....

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 05:50:47 pm
content: Quote from: ptluis on October 10, 2023, 02:55:10 pmFor sake of completeness, there are also standard battery handhelds not in tablet factor. For instance Siglent has SHS800X and SHS1000X series.Fully featured scopes (with all time running history mode and segmented mode, serial decoding etc) and scopemeter (with built in multimeter). It also has 1 MPts FFT. Meter has trend function for data logging.. And many other things. Datasheet is available for details.One very interesting thing about SHS1000X is that channels are ISOLATED between each other and FLOATING...They are also quite rugged. Other manufacturers have similar models (I mention these specifically because I'm familiar with them)Micsig tablets have common ground on a chassis, all BNC and USB are connected together... Don't make it explode...One note about Micsig. Even those Micsigs that have segmented mode have that mode only for show. You can manually go screen to screen and look at the signal shape. There are no tools to search, measure or decode or similar form such segmented data. That makes segmented mode pretty much useless for any thing than few screens and simple visual comparisons..For instance, on my Keysight I can capture 100 individual I2C packets to 100 segmented captures and decode from all of them in single interface. Or search for edge, pulse or other searches on al that data. Same with Siglents I have.It is not clear and documented that you can do anything like that on Micsig with segments, apart from visually browsing through screens or overlaying them all on top of each other...

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 08:46:47 pm
content: Manual explanationpage 213 chapter 10.5 (or just hit ctrl + f and search)https://www.micsig.com/uploads/Userguide_en_us_1692588129.pdfIf you want isolated channels in a small compact rugged unit.. you need to look at these small 2 ch. handhelds from the older era with ltd depth & features' which would be tiresome as..to use as one's daily portable/bench scope, and not a 400 buck tablet jobby.Dave, looked at one of Micsig's older models with Isolated channels.Micsig MS310IT Detailshttps://www.eyou.com.au/1965/

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 10:13:07 pm
content: At the moment I'm using scopes for automotive troubleshooting.Sensors, Ecu's, solenoids, etc. One of the situations were segmented memory is really useful is in detecting injector random misfires, if the scope has enough memory I'm also able to do long capture times but searching through all the collected data is a little boring.I prefer to use tablet format and have bigger screen size, don't care much about channels being isolated because i don't use them in risky situations. BUT portability is a top priority.Sometimes I use a siglent sds1104x-e with a 600w battery pack in cases where AC isn't available and i need 4ch and segmented memory, but it's not much practical. A tablet is better. A handheld scope have a small screen and my eyesight are not the same as it used to be.I don't use scopes on a single area of work, i might use them in auto business, computers business, etcI don't do any RF work at present time like i used to do, so no need for high bandwidth scopes.I always try to select a scope with the most features available, even if i don't need them at present time. IF i didn't have the need of portability, I for sure will choose a bench scope with more features available for the same price. Of course Micsig scope are expensive for the features they offer, but they sell Tablet scopes. I don't understand why companies like Rigol, Siglent, don't release a tablet scope, even owon did it.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 12:49:12 am
content: Quote from: ptluis on October 10, 2023, 10:13:07 pmHow are they expensive for the features you get?when I did my due diligence, they were surprisingly cheap for all the features you get, no other entry-scope had the same feature palette out of the box.Quote from: ptluis on October 10, 2023, 02:55:10 pm- if you wanna use it for automobiles, why do you go after TO2004? better optimised models for that purpose, as I emphasized above.

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 09:17:34 am
content: Quote from: DaneLawlink=topic=394981.msg5106657#msg5106657 date=1696985352Are you referring to ATO series? or handheld scope? Handheld I don't want, to small screen and right now I'm looking for tablet format. The ATO series, I don't need the preset auto features tests because I know what I'm looking for and how to setup, so saving 200-300€ difference. An OBD scanner will do most of the tests the ATO series include as auto tests. So no need for that.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 10:56:44 am
content: Yep, it was the ATO2004 I referred to.ATO2000 serieshttps://www.micsig.com/uploads/Userguide_US_en_1677490530.pdfsheet.. some of the auto test.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 11:52:27 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on October 11, 2023, 12:49:12 amYou must be confused..They don't have anything except basic features..TO2004 Plus is a 1000€ scope...According to manual it doesn't even have statistics on measurements...for 1000 € you can buy Rigol MSO5000 or almost Siglent SDS2104X+. Those scopes are a space ship in comparison.TO2004 is very basic scope that is portable.Don't get me wrong. I own Micsig STO1104C. It is well made, good quality device and I like it a lot. I bought it for portability.But as a scope it is basic scope without any advanced analysis.They have some very nice stuff, like LP filters in channels, 1 good math channel, good table mode in decoding.And since I got it for 450€ it was very good buy.1000€ for completely same scope with more BW and memory, but still same limitations is not a good deal, unless you really need a scope that has 200MHz BW, has to be portable and you don't need advanced capabilities.Micsig scopes are not (not even the most expensive one) very advanced as scopes go. But they are pretty much only serious tablet scope manufacturer, and if you absolutely need tablet type scope they are the go to. Simple but good and well made...

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 03:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 11, 2023, 11:52:27 amThat's what I mean, investment vs features vs needs, for 1000 and some euros I could get a better scope and need to think carefully if my decision will be the more adequate. That's why I'm also considering owon tablet scopes. Tablet scopes are more practical for auto stuff. I use more often OBD scanners for the job, and this purchase will be more like a all around scope for other tasks besides auto stuff.As I said previously I use my bench siglent sds1104x-e orother times sds1202x-e with a lithium 600w powerpack and make it portable. It works just fine, but now it's time for a real portable solution Tablet format, battery powered, with features as close as possible to the sds1104x-e. I even thought in converting this model to battery power only, but I don't have much time actually and need to find schematics first.I'm not saying Micsig are bad, or poor quality, but need to think wisely and search for more options before spending my money and regret later.And btw, for me there's no perfect scope, but there are adequate scopes, for certain tasks, some more some less.Some years ago when I had the need for a 8ch scope I bought a picoscope, and it was a marvellous piece of equipment, very adequate for my needs at that time. When the project was shutdown due to the COVID thing I sold it. Normally I rotate equipments frequently, I have no problems in buying 2nd hand equipments.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 04:07:09 pm
content: Both Micsig and Owon are good, Micsig seems basic to me, compared to the features of the other scopes.however, the builds look good and it has a lot of memory.What bothers me is that there are almost no updates on it. When was the last time you came to the older TO1104, the server doesn't even work anymore, it keeps throwing errors.I wrote to Micsig but they haven't replied yet.I bought the STO2202C when it was released, the next series came a few months later and they forgot about it.There has only been one update for it so far, but I think it has many shortcomings.Now i'm thinking of buying a RIGOL DHO9?4S scope.And I only keep the Micsig and the Owon next to it and pass the other smaller ones.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 04:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 11, 2023, 11:52:27 amYou keep on repeating that but in all my time as a Micsig owner I neverneededthat.I'll take the big screen, the UI, the portability, the serial decoders, etc., over my previous Rigol DS1054Z every time, even though that one had statistics.Some features simply aren't showstoppers foreverybody. Get over it.Quote from: ptluis on October 11, 2023, 03:22:00 pmIf you have a Siglent on your bench then look at the Micsig'sdifferences, not its features.Maybe also look at the new Rigol DHOs. They have some very fancy segmented memory modes and can easily be made portable (use a USB powerbank).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 04:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on October 11, 2023, 04:07:09 pmYep. They've made a new hardware revision or two but they seem to have stopped working on the firmware features a few years ago. Just a few little extras could put them back in the race as frontrunners.The current firmware and UI is very creatively designed, pretty much bug free, and must have taken a huge effort to write. I don't know what's holding them back.eg. Statistics wouldn't take them more than a day or two to add and it's a showstopper for some. All it needs is a extra button at the bottom of the screen to turn it on/off and another 20 lines of code in the measurement calculation. Push out an update to all the existing users and the amount of good will generated would garantee them a lot of new sales.But, noooo...I guess it's just bad management at the company. Maybe the original owner left (or the original programmers...)

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 05:47:12 pm
content: This is exactly why I buy Rigol.The Micsig that I have is perfect, with minor or major shortcomings, the newer edition is not enough for me to buy it next to the current one, I have already fallen in love with it, I will not sell it.The TO1104 was $300 when I bought the STO and around $600.But Micsig lacks a few skills for me.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 05:57:01 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 11, 2023, 04:29:31 pmI'm not saying they are showstoppers. But you cannot call something advanced if there is nothing on it...In comparison to Siglent SD1104X-E Micsig is very low on features. Only thing Micisg has better is lowpass filters in channels .But as you keep saying, that is not a showstopper..New Rigols are currently bugfest alpha stage scope like devices. In a a year or two maybe the get it together. Today, between Rigol and Micsig, just get Micsig. It is simple but works..If OP has SDS1104X-E DHO800 brings nothing new to the table, in fact brings less. 12 Bit are only thing it has and OP has no stated use for that.And don't get me started on DHO800 "segmented" modes. It is completely useless and have no practical applications. Once you receive your DHO800 you will soon realize that too. It is only there to make another checkmark in datasheet and to have something cool looking in demo mode on exhibition booths and stores..

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2023, 06:13:01 pm
content: If you wrote the above to me, I would appreciate it and think about it.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2023, 12:52:12 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on October 11, 2023, 11:52:27 amDizzy or not, it seems to have gone over your head, it was a reply to a generalizing statement about Micsig portable scopes & the portable tablet-market in general and how Micsig models stands out there, "featurewise".Taking elevated specs in a model-line TO2000 series that starts at 450 euros in Europe (+vat) for the 200Mhz bandwidh, 10.1 screen, 2ch (TO2002) and comparing an elevated version (TO2004) to more expensive bench scopes.. makes little sense..(apples to oranges)- People looking at portable scopes likely needs that crucial "portability" while secondary aspects - like certain statistics etc, literally come second, even aspects that you perhaps value and are fundamental for your bench scope, are likely not the case for everyone else...we all have different needs and the task we are gonna use our scopes at."Portability" usually dont make scope meters cheaper or result in more features, just as we see on portable spectrum analyzers... It tends toget expensive, and often with ltd features but that is another fish.Im not familiar with any portable scopes that give more features, than Micsig portable tablet models, and got so strong specs for like 350 to 600 euro.You can compare portable scopes in elevated spec-rigging to big bench scopes in their entry rigging, to the cows come home, but it's two different segments in my view.If OP wanted a bench scope, like MSO5000 or Siglent 2000X series, he would likely look for that.Migsig's expected MDO line (est. Dec 2023), I don't think that is a portable unit' so on that fellow, go berserk and hump "likes for likes" with your exampled Rigol & Siglent bench scopes..(MDO/ETO screen dump below, OS seems to differ quite a bit)Most things on the MDO seem to match their ETO, which on the other hand is portable, but has not been released in the West (yet tmk)..- Its a 500Mhz scope, 3Gs, 360Meg, 14" screen 1920x1200p my guess it will be around 3k euro.. You can compare that to the 350Mhz MSO5000 from Rigol that out of the box' cost around the same 2900 euro on Batronix. (goes without saying nobody that is familiar with the h-backdoors' would buy that 350Mhz Rigol, alongside other models where price-logic is flushed-out with the bathwater in their max'ed outfit.)Portable tablet scopes, not many on the market.. Mostly Micsig & Tektronix MSO2series comes to mind. fx MSO24 with 500Mhz BW 10" screen 2.5Gs, 10meg/ch goes for 14.000 euro locally online-resellers like RS with only the BW option as per se incl., - but then you also get 4x 200Mhz passive probes with it...also looks like the MSO2 portability with the needed battery is an option at another grand/+1k Euro, and not incl. - and sure' a wild guess, is that this entry tablet-line MSO2 from Tek has way more adv features on the fly, than Micsig's ETO 500Mhz 14.1" 360meg, 3Gs 14" Tablet jobby - but you certainly also paying for it, - even though the MSO2 waveform update leaves some to be desired, according to Dave's vid, even my 355 euro tablet scope seems to be faster (I doubt that).Micsig tablet-scopes are a budget line, and the more expensive versions with higher specs, 50 Ohm, active probe interface, segm mem etc - are built on top of that.IF you look up Misig older portable models with isolated channels etc, that came in the more classic scope/DMM design - like MS310 and MS510.. they were price-wise from around 2k and up.Its no secret that my biggest grape with Micsig, aint the hardware... like it a lot, its fundamentally very nice hardware.. it's the lackluster support from Micsig and how defect OTA updates just hang for years, like everybody left the boat..both xxx128 and xxx129 got issues, as mentioned in the other Micsig threadAalso dont like the way they are jack'ng of certain owners that gave input/feedback, as Micsig was hard set on giving the impression that it was a living ecosystem, that would get new apps. new features, and they listened to their userbase, - also recalled mention of Android OS updates.Even small minor things, like I mentioned to them that would elevate some of the scope's strengths, - like fx connecting one of the clickable rotary knobs to intensity grading that could fx get activated with the shift button or knob click.Btw I recall talks about mouse, keyboard & hub etc.For those purpose there doesnt seem to be a limit that I reached.. tried with 3 at once, keyboard/trackpad, mouse, and airmouse and they all worked alongside each other from the scope's single USB port, same with the keyboard shortcuts.- when it senses keyboard it will ask for your language, and it seems to have full support for all the keyboard languages. works in scope app-mode and in Android mode, fx in Office on the scope, when working with saved data, fx in Excel sheets on the scope - you can obviously adjust cursor speed/sensitivity in the settings on the scope..https://tinyurl.com/3vb7sr5r

author: ptluis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 03:32:16 pm
content: It's been interesting to read your opinions about micsig, and there are very interesting points that help in my choice.I have a question for owners of a micsig: ​​how can I make a backup of the firmware in case I need to restore the system in the future? since micsig does not provide firmware on the website.12bits, I don't need 12bits, 8 bits are enough, but if they come in addition, so much the better.Rigol DHO8xx, a problem I see for myself is the size of the screen, and the memory on the 4 active channels is only 1Mpts, but I'm waiting for the possible hacks to be made on this model. In any case, I do not put this model out of the question.Some of the advantages of the micsig TO2004 is that it has a lot of memory and 1Gs/s on 4ch and 2Gs/s on 2ch simultaneously.