Cool stuff to do with a new DSO - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: rthorntn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 07:08:42 am
content: Probably a common story...So I just received a DS1102E.I am new to pretty much all of this. I am OK with a multimeter and about to teach myself SMD soldering (Arduino) and thought the scope would be great for testing my work.So in the meantime I am looking for cool stuff to measure with the scope to teach myself about it's configuration and output.What things do I have round the house that I can hook this in to, I have a bunch of gadgets, if I could get suggestions along the lines of:Use w cable to bnc to attach the scope to x and measure y, you should expect to see z (make sure button A is at B)...Much appreciated.CheersRichard

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 07:18:15 am
content: On a gadget that is not using mains, you could just probe around and find what is happening. You'll be much more confident about your results and get to know your instrument. There is not much to learn by connect this here, set the scope like this, you'll see this.

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 07:22:12 am
content: Hey Richard,well, you can measure what ever you want of course. But something exiting...hm...if you got an NE555, you could probe the timing capacitor and output voltage for instance.But NEVER EVER try to probe mains voltage!Since you are new to oscilloscopes, you should look at Dave's video:

author: rthorntn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 08:04:10 am
content: Thanks guys.Watched the video, very useful, power it by battery or with unearthed power brick...I have a 3.5mm jack to triple BNC, could I generate signals with PC software using my soundcard?This:http://wavelogicsystems.com/?page_id=33sees to be a java app that allows you to generate signals, anyone used it?Or should I buy one of the cheap little signal generator boards from ebay?Searching for NE555 or AD9850 on ebay returns a bunch of stuff from from under $10 to over $60 with an LCD.Or should I just get the raw DIP and breadboard it?CheersRichard

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 10:03:06 am
content: QuoteYes, this would be the best way to do it.For the beginning, a resistor set (E12 series) and a couple caps would be also very handy.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 11:01:51 am
content: Quote from: PSR B1257 on September 25, 2012, 07:22:12 amProbing mains is fine when you know what you're doing.It's grounding the mains that causes the sparks and magic smoke

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 01:12:56 pm
content: I had came across curve tracer / octopus a number of times before , a while back I picked up a home-brewed one at a ham-fest - ham radio swap meet .This is a good accessory for a scope .http://www.qsl.net/kd7rem/octopus.htmlSome one posted a video here lately , but I did not bookmark it ?Some other links ,http://www.qsl.net/kd7rem/octopus.htmlhttp://www.nj2x.com/2012/01/oscilloscope-school.html

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 01:54:57 pm
content: Hook it up to an electronic halogen transformer and be amazed. The label usually says it's output is 12V. A small hint, put your probe in x10 mode...

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 03:23:28 pm
content: QuoteSureBut you cant recommend somebody - how is new to electronics - to probe mains voltage, don't youEdit: A nother reason, to not probe mains voltage, is the maximum input voltage of an oscilloscope. If you apply about 330Vp to it directly, it might be not so good...@Richard: A nother interesting measurement would be the time constant of an RC circuit.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 04:39:14 pm
content: Quote from: PSR B1257 on September 25, 2012, 03:23:28 pmTrue measuring mains is definitely not something for beginners, but you said "NEVER EVER" measure mains.Quote from: PSR B1257 on September 25, 2012, 03:23:28 pmThe scope he bought, rigol DS1102E, is input rated up to 300V RMS.230V AC is well within the specs so can even be measured with a x1 probe.The probe is probably what i'd worry about the most. Cheap probes may not be rated for 230V.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 04:45:10 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on September 25, 2012, 04:39:14 pmThe input is only rated for 30V! The 300V rating is based on using an x10 probe. Which also makes it unsuitable for 230V mains with the supplied probe, the mains would be 325Vpp.

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 04:51:31 pm
content: QuoteNo, as I wrote it's 325 or there about volt peak, or 650Vpp.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 04:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on September 25, 2012, 04:45:10 pmThe 30/40V rating is for the D series. (The logic inputs)It's kinda moot anyway, because you have to use x10 since it only supports up to 10v/div on x1But according to the datasheet, the input front end is rated to 400V peak at 1Mohm (x1)Later on it talks about the CAT ratings, which says 1:10 for CAT IIbut that's different, it's talking about input specs under CAT rating conditions so its always going to be less than the physical hardware can support.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 05:21:45 pm
content: I had a 1102E, my manual said 300V but in the begin specs they stated specs are with 10X probe. Later manuals are not clear about these specs. I would not risk it.But 400VDC and AC peak is not enough for 230Vrms mains, and as far as I remember the probes are also not rated high enough.But a beginner should not even think about measuring mains. One mistake can kill you, or your scope.There are a lot of tutorials about using scopes, old tektronix manuals ( 5XX series) are a sort of scope tutorials. Also look for tutorials about probing because that is the most important thing. Tek has one but there are more. The older series measurement concepts from Tek are free to download. Two are about probing. A dutch book, 101 ociloscope proeven is nice if you can read dutch ;-)

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 05:30:59 pm
content: QuoteExactly. That's why I wrote to never ever measure mains voltage.Even if the maximum input voltage of an oscilloscope is 400V it's useless, because it can only display 10V per division.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 05:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on September 25, 2012, 05:21:45 pmThat's why I thought it was only rated for 30V really. I recently bought my DS1052E but didn't bother to read the manual.I can confirm however that it does survive an 800V spike (induction is awesome...)

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2012, 02:24:21 am
content: I think they designed the front end to handle 400V peak safely but also limited the software to 10v/div so they can supply cheaper probes without needing 400V rated cable.Rigol know how to make good scopes and it wouldn't be a very good design if 230V AC on x1 blew up the scope.

author: PSR B1257
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2012, 04:52:53 am
content: Offtopic:QuoteAny volunteers for testing?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2012, 04:57:05 am
content: I think i've had 230V on x1 for a few seconds before i switched to 10x on my Rigol.But i've definitely put 230VAC into my old 50mhz CRO scope on 1x with no bad effects.

author: rthorntn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2012, 08:38:36 am
content: Thanks everyone!I think I will buy a curve tracer (octopus?), my favorite site ebay has these:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160891178289Transistor Diode & Component Tester / Tracker Curve Tracer Just Add Oscilloscopeand this one looks like it works without a scope:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110938400143Intelligent curve tracer main boardAny thoughts, also suggestions where I can pick something like this up for less, also what specs I should be looking for, I have another post about fault finding pci-e cards that this may help with...Thanks.Richard

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2012, 08:57:11 am
content: dont forget 240 mains is peaks of 339V, and more realistically mid day is more like 360V peaks, with heavy spikes upto 420V, (any noise on your side of a substation is introduced onto your mains in some form or another)

author: rthorntn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2012, 09:13:11 am
content: Thanks rerouter, not sure if you are talking about my curve tracer reply or adding your 2c to the beginners probing mains AC, I think mains AC

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2012, 02:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on September 26, 2012, 02:24:21 amIt probably isn't a software limit. It is just the difference between "handle safely" and "provide useful data". It is quite common to have scopes which can safely handle 400 volts though their input protection, but without an attenuator setting that can reduce it to within the range of the ADC.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2012, 02:20:53 pm
content: yeah, makes sense.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2012, 09:17:05 am
content: Quote from: rthorntn on September 27, 2012, 08:38:36 amDon't waste your money on that spend it on a signal generator, PS and a breadboard.I assume you have DMM so with those items and some components you can do and learn much more about electronis. Those tester devices are no substitue for using the real tools and some grey matter.