UP! Mini 3D printer by PP3DP - a look under her bonnet & comments on design - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 03:14:25 pm
content: I purchased a 'customer returns' PP3DP UP! Mini 3D printer from Toploser and it arrived today.It was only bought on Tuesday evening so the usual superb service from ToploserIt arrived via UPS in its original box and was well packed. This is very important with a fragile item like a 3D printer as transit damage can be costly to repair.Toploser had already fired the printer up and tested it so I saw no point in messing around testing it and decided I needed to see what was under her bonnet. There appeared to be few pictures of the inside of these units on the NET so I am providing some quick ones here. Nothing special, just a taster.Before removing any panels I did my usual 'shake test' to detect any loose parts that could be floating around...... yep she rattledUpon investigation, via the front door, I found part of a plastic clip. It looked important and I soon identified it as one of the plastic clips that retain the X,Y & Z parallel bars. Time to find out which one was broken. Now this is where it gets interesting. None of the fitted plastic clips were damaged. BUT one was a lighter shade of grey than the others. It served the horizontal parallel bars that support the extruder head. Its bad news when that fails ! The unit had been returned to the original retailer as 'not working'. It is my belief that this was true and that the unit had a failed clip causing the issue. I further believe that the clip has been replaced by a service agent. The unit is now working but obviously could not be sold as new, hence it arriving with Toploser and then meOk enough of the forensics, on with the showI opened the units front and top access doors and these give you a good view of the internal parts. There isn't actually that much inside these units, but a quality build is essential for accurate 3D model making. I was pleased to see plenty of metal and some really nice parallel bars with decent linear bearings running on them. This is a cost reduced version of the UP! so I was expecting to see evidence of corners being cut. Not evident in the linear travel department thoughI could see the three stepper motors for the X,Y and Z travel and they seemed decent enough, not some cheap $2 unit as found in toys. The extruder head also has its own stepper motor of course and this is similar to those on the axis drives.The heated build platform runs on nice linear bearings as already stated. Its action is smooth and the platform looks fit for its role. One platform retainer looks a little bent but I will check alignment height before fiddling as this may be deliberate to get the platform level. Compression springs press the heated platform up on to its retainers, and the working sheet is sandwiched between the two. Decent build quality here too. Much like you would find inside a 3.5" floppy disk drive or modern inkjet printer. In fact the whole thing looks to be a scaled up version of such technology with the familiar bent edge pressed steel chassis to provide adequate rigidity at low cost. It works though and keeps both the cost and weight down.The Extruder assembly is held in place by three strong magnetsI will be honest and say that I was not enamoured with that design idea but hey, if it works, I cannot knock it, right ?The X,Y and Z travel is driven by toothed pulleys and belts so excellent engagement and zero slip is assured, just like on a cars cam beltBelt and pulley quality looks fine, with 'in-line' spring tensioners used to maintain correct tension. No obvious quality issues in that department eitherIt was time to remove the back cover, behind which the motherboard resides.The rear cover is held in place by many self tapping screws and this assists in maintaining the rigidity of the metal case around the printing mechanism. Good to see. Once removed the rear can be taken away after unplugging the power switch cable from the motherboard. Nice and simple.When looking at the printer through the rear, it becomes obvious how little there actually is within the case. This technology is mechanically pretty simple BUT good build quality makes the difference between a decent 3D print and a poor one.Before I go any further I think it worth noting the following. The UP! Mini is sold with a positive PR spin relating to the enclosure keeping the project piece warm, and away from cooling draughts, whilst it is being printed. I understand such air currents can negatively impact upon 3D prints. Looking at the pictures you will see that the motherboard inhabits the same air space as the project piece and associated heated platform. Also note the number of silver heat-sink's that are present on the motherboard. These are likely drivers for the motors etc. It does not take a rocket scientist to realise that placing a sensitive motherboard, that is producing its own heat, inside a cabinet that is being actively warmed, is not a great idea ! I consider this poor design, especially as there is no forced air cooling of the motherboard. Cooling of the motherboard is via passive convection only, with two relatively small ventilation louvre sets in the rear panel aligned with the motherboard. I suspect that the poor motherboard could get quite uncomfortably hot during long prints in warm environments. The lack of a separate compartment for the motherboard and forced air cooling is IMHO a cost cut that potentially has negative implications for the components on said PCB. It is interesting to note that others have thought the same and have designed forced cooling systems for the motherboard. I shall be doing similarly.The motherboard itself looks like most Chinese medium quality production and is nothing to get very excited about really. Interestingly the 'CPU' is on a daughter board so that it may be removed. No idea why this is. Looking at the PCB, I suspect that this motherboard is also used in the larger UP! printer. No reason to not do so as the needs of both machines will be almost the same.The cabling loom that connects to the motherboard is not as tidy as I would like to see but is acceptable. Spiral wrap is used to hold some cables in a neater fashion than having them cable tied or hanging loose. Good effort, but could do betterThere are unused connector pads and even a 3.5mm multi pole socket that are not used in the UP! Mini. It would be interesting to know what purpose they serve in other printers. The 'UP! Mini' firmware may not support them however.The Extruder is a compact assembly that comprises the stepper motor driven filament feeder, the heated extruder nozzle, a PT100 sensor and a small fan to provide cooling of the extruded filament when required (PLA). A small PCB on the top of the Extruder assembly acts as a node for various connecting cables and combines them into a single ribbon cable.Well that is about it. Nothing more to see really.I will make comment on improvements that I will be making to the printer in a separate post.Pictures attached....... enjoyAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 03:52:58 pm
content: Now the interior from the rear.........

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 03:56:22 pm
content: And some exterior pics to finish with.....Aurora

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 04:29:21 pm
content: 12x12x12 cm3 print @ $600 hmmm i'm sceptic about the magnets if they can hold the head in stiff place without any slight of disalignment during print. cant wait to see the output print. that broken plastic yeah it seems to hold one of the shaft, heat iron treatment may simple fix it. pretty much everything you described... standard sized nema steppers, belt linear bearing and all are standard current reprap development, except the covering. just you hope the lever pushing the filament to the extruder stepper gear is not the abs printed one, it should be metal or else it will break soon but ymmv. just if you buy one of this and put a cupboard box around it... it got your nickname laser cutted on ithttp://www.ebay.com.my/itm/Aurora-3D-Printer-DIY-KIT-High-Accuracy-Acrylic-Frame-2kg-Filmnt-ABS-PLA-NEW-/131235853272?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e8e4433d8

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pm
content: Modifications.......The UP! Mini is built to a price but I was pleased to see that the cost cutting is not in areas that cannot be rectified by a keen tech1. The Extruder head has a fixed temperature that cannot be changed via the UP! software. The value is set at 260C to suit the OEM ABS filamant and 200C for PLA filament. 3rd party ABS works better at a lower temperature. A simple modification has been published to address the issue in hardware. Depending upon the users needs a simple 12 Ohm resistor can be switched into the PT100 circuit to fool the printer into lowering the extruder temperature. Alternatively a series of different resistor values may be switched in to set several different operating temperatures. I will likely carry out the multi resistor option to make the unit more versatile and cheaper to run. (£12 for 1Kg Vs £34 for 700g of OEM filament) Its a very simple modification that does not require any cable cutting or permanent modifications.2. The heated platform is a very simple affair. It is a PCB track based heater that is fitted with a very simple 60C thermal cut-out to regulate it to around 50-60C. Firstly the thermal cut out has a stated life of only 1000 cycles and is being abused in this application. It is a thermal protector and not a thermostat ! It fails in service apparently. Secondly the set temperature is not adequate to prevent large projects curling at one edge. This is a known issue and a mystery to many as UP! use 105C platforms on their more expensive machines. Those platforms are closed loop temperature controlled and use a dedicated heater element. Testing has proven that the PCB type heater has a maximum temperature of only 85C when the thermal cut out is bypassed. 85C is no problem for the PCB material and the improvement in the printing of large projects is said to be dramatic and impressive with no more curling at the base. Many owners have fitted a 100C thermal cut out in place of the 60C item that was fitted. In the unlikely event that the PCB reaches 100C, the cut out will act as a safety switch which is what it is designed for. The PCB heater will effectively be free running with no temperature control except the ability of the drive circuit to supply current. As the PCB heater can only manage 85C maximum, this is considered acceptable (but it is not ideal by any means !) An issue with increasing the temperature of the PCB heater is that it will increase the temperature within the cabinet and this may place additional stress on the motherboard. A warmer cabinet interior is also not good when using PLA but I will be using ABS only so not an issue for me.I have ordered a 100C thermal cut out from China and will be fitting it in my unit. I will look into employing a PID to control the heater at some point in the future.3. The motherboard resides within the warmed confines of the printer cabinet and has no forced air cooling. Relying upon convection cooling alone potentially places a strain on the components. It will be interesting to monitor the motherboard using one of my thermal camerasOther users have devised forced air cooling solutions and baffles that effectively isolate the motherboard from the rest of the cabinet interior. I shall look into this as a desirable modification and I may also increase the cross sectional area of the fitted heat sinks. A new motehrboard fo rteh printer costs a whopping $700 ! and that is discounted from its original price of $1000A failed motherboard basically means a scrap printer.Well that is enough from me for now.My sincerest thanks to Toploser for enabling me to own such a neat 3D printing solution at a price that I can afford. It has a good reputation and decent software. Once I have tweaked the design to counter the cost cutting that is present, it will be a really nice and reliable printer to ownAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 04:49:55 pm
content: @mechtrommer,I have to agree, $600 for one of these printers is a lot of money. I could neither afford, nor justify buying a new one of these at the moment. Thankfully Toploser had this customer return unit for sale at a far friendlier price, and I bought it knowing that it might need some fettling. There are plenty of pictures of UP! Mini produced projects on the internet. They look respectable to my eyesCertainly good enough for my humble needs.The broken clip part is an orphan. the rest of it was removed and a new clip was fitted before I received the printer. There is a STL for those clips but I may buy some OEM spares as they are a potential point of failure.I agree on the magnetic extruder holder but I can find no complaints about its performance when printing. I am surprised but they are very strong magnets !I like the fact that this particular printer seems to be well respected in the field of budget 3D printing and its foibles are well documented. It is a good basis on which to build my 3D printing knowledge and may be a good platform for further development in the years ahead.I will take my time getting used to to the new printer as this is all new territory for me. I already have quite a list of parts I want to make....and no, I am not including Yoda or a representation of male genitalia on that listI must say though, there is NOTHING in this 3D printer that is anywhere near complex in terms of manufacturing and it is significantly simpler than my Canon MP600 multifunction printer. Prices will drop as production ramps up. I suspect the market is too immature to provide mass production savings at the moment though. I see these printers costing no more than £200 in the not too distant future. We will see all manner of attempts to lock users into OEM filament however.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 04:54:44 pm
content: Just as a quick comparison, I took some pictures of a scrap Canon MP600 printer metal chassis. It looks significantly more expensive to produce than the UP! Mini but it is mass produced and that makes the difference. The controller PCB (not shown) is also very highly integrated when compared to the UP! Mini board.Aurora

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 04:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pmyou are screwed... my sw adjustable setting for miscbrand pla is 235degC and ABS is 265degC. ymmv.Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pmscrewed again...Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pm120degC is now my standard sw setting for printing ABS, 60degC for PLA... temp adjustable from sw is a blessing to the new breed, PID and temp control is (and i think should be) done in fw/sw. ymmvQuote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pmyou bet.Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:30:48 pman smps built into the motherboard, damaged one ie damaged smps means is damaged all. good luck...i'm not trying to discourage you, but its another way point of view from someone for readers out there... cheers.Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 04:49:55 pmhow about female genitalia?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 05:14:03 pm
content: On the topic of extruder temperature.... I am interested to hear that you run at 265 Celcius. The UP! Mini can be hardware fooled to set the extruder temperature to anything from around 180C up to 300C so I am not worried about that BUT the 3D printing forums seem to suggest that the UP! filament is a high temperature mix that works very well but when using 3rd party ABS filament 260C is too hot. They reduce the temperature at the extruder to around 240C to prevent issues. I am surprised and pleased to hear that 265C works for you. As I say, I am new to all this so all comment, good or bad is helpfulI am under no illusions.... the UP! Mini is a low budget beginners 3D printer and cannot compete with its larger and much more expensive brothers and sisters. The world of 3D printing is in its infancy and I wanted to dip my toe in the water, so to speakFrom what I have read, the UP! Mini is far more user friendly than some budget 3D printers and I do like the community support that is evident on the internet.And remember, I did not pay anywhere near retail for it so I still consider it a bargain even with its little foiblesAs you say though, is it worth $600 ? No ideaMuch depends on what other 3D printers offer in that price range. From what I understand of the 3D printing marketplace though, they tend to be overly expensive plus challenging to align and use. The 3D printing world is not for the faint hearted. I like a challenge and feel that I can address any issues, as and when they occur.I have just taken advantage of an opportunity that fell in front of mePlus I intend to have some fun learning to print in 3Dthankfully my livelihood will not depend upon this machine.There is a very interesting video on this machine here though (its from an Australian so must be true)And just discovered this HACK.....WONDERFUL !Worth a look.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 05:31:46 pm
content: Yay ! In February of this year some clever chaps wrote a hack DLL that simply sits in the UP! folder.The DLL produces a set-up panel on screen that permits UP! Mini users to configure extruder temperature and layer height etc. The Mini has had its chains removedVery happy to read this.http://pp3dp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=54781Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 05:39:20 pm
content: PLA Vs ABS.... Good VideoAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 09:57:17 pm
content: Having just read the printers user manual it is now clear why users like this little printer. The unit is designed to be as user friendly as is possible. Calibration is described and appears very straight forward. Interestingly it is now apparent that most of the plastic parts used inside the printer are actually made by an UP Mini at the factory ! Take a look at the Extruder plastics.... according to the manual they are what this little printer is capable of. Not bad at all.The other good news is that the OEM has provided the STL files for the various plastic parts used in the printer. These are supplied as example parts that the user may print fro practice. This is a great idea and enables a user to take the files and modify them to their requirements. This is especially useful with mods to the extruder plastics.Also interesting to read, in the latest manual version, was a statement that the heated platform now heats to 100C. I will have to investigate that.Still very happy with what I am seeing and reading about this little bundle of fun. The next task is to fire her up and check the calibration. It even prints its own calibration test piece that you measure and enter calibration data into the various calibration boxes. How much simpler could they make it ?We shall see how things go tomorrowAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:41:42 am
content: I think I just found another possible reason for this being a returned item.As already stated, the unit has definitely had a linear rod support replaced. Some research shows these to be a weakness in the design. Fortunately some clever people have designed an STL for a stronger DIY versionThis is what I mean about good community support. I shall print some spares before I suffer any failures.Whilst investigating the newly fitted support (its a lighter colour than the rest) I noticed another issue. Whoever replaced the linear rod support managed to pull on the adjacent cable that goes to the main 'function' button PCB on the top left of the unit. The cable connector had been pulled partially away from its mate and I would say that one end was likely intermittent as a result. It was almost fully off in fact. Toploser tested the unit so it was likely 'just' touching the required pins. Vibration as the printer when operating would likely make that push button function very unpredictable between print runs. What would appear a serious intermittent fault would in fact be a simple bad connectionHow many times have you heard people say "its probably just a loose wire inside" .....well this time it wasThe more I look into the design of the UP! the more respect I have for the designer. It is a very cleverly put together bit of kit.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:33:36 pm
content: My first ever print on this machine.I just followed the very simple nozzle height and 9 point platform level calibrations and set it running !My first 3D printed part is a spare linear rod holder...... a printer that prints its own spare parts.....you have to love itI have not removed the print from the cellboard yet so it needs to have the raft etc removed. I left the broken holder piece next to the new part in the pictures. The finish is smooth and much better than I had expected from a budget 3D printer. I was using the normal resolution with a 0.25mm level step, and not the fine mode that is available for detail work. More parts to followThis really was very easy. Larger parts will be more of a challenge maybe.Oh and I printed this part with no platform pre-heat because it is so small.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:47:20 pm
content: And the part removed from the cellboard and its raft.I had to be quite brutal with a blade to get it off the cellboard so I need to work out how to do that better. I will set the nozzle height slightly higher as well as it may have pushed too much ABS into the stabiliser holes.Still having fun though

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 05:07:19 pm
content: Well my second print has just completed.I was unsure how this one would go as it was a tall shape and larger than the simple mount completed previously.The project piece is a top cover for the extruder PCB. Why the OEM decided to not fit one, I do not know. The 3D printed PCB holder has the required indents for a clip on cover so users have come up with all manner of designs. I chose a simple but practical design off of Thingiverse.The cover is printed on its side as an L shape so a load of supporting structure is needed. It is most impressive to see the machine in action, constructing the 'scaffolding' that will be needed later in the print. The print took just over an hour and was completed without incident. I have noted a slight run out in the vertical plane but this is because I did not make the calibration piece that allows the user to measure and correct such in the calibration tables. In other words its my fault for cutting corners and not the printers !The print is using the 'Normal' quality and not fine. The level step is 0.2mm.I am very pleased with the result and it fits perfectly. Very neatIt is also worth noting that the material I have used is ABS so it can be sanded very smooth (even polished) and painted just like an 'Airfix' model kitGluing ABS parts together is a doddle as well.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 05:33:00 pm
content: And some thermal pictures of the UP! Mini printing the cover.Note the extruder head is moving quite fast so some blurring is expected on the images.For FLIR fans, these images were taken with an 'Enhanced' E4 (320x240 pixels), with and without an Inframetrics 6" close up lens.Aurora

author: JackP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:12:09 pm
content: I've heard that freezing down the part helps to remove it from the base; never tried it, though (no 3D printer).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:21:58 pm
content: A last couple of 3D prints for todayI printed a strain relief frame for my FLIR E4 that was designed by fellow member of this forum RAWebb. This frame holds the rubber top flap away from the micro USB plug. Great designThe UP! Mini has a very simple filament guide and there are all manner of alternative designs to download. I chose one to see how it performs. If I don't get on with it, I can just print another versionThat's it for today. Readers are likely bored of seeing the 3D prints anyway. I just wanted to show what the UP! Mini can do in the hands of a total beginnerAurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:06:06 pm
content: I have just packed the UP! Mini away as the next time she comes out I will be tidying up the internal cables, carrying out a full mechanical alignment survey and correcting any physical mis-alignment that may exist. The software calibration routines will then do any fine tuning that is needed. I should have a fully sorted and precise (within its limits) 3D printerIts has been great fun getting to know this little printer and I am pleased to report that it has been a pleasure to use with not a single print failure or upset out of 5 printsI have read so many horror stories about DIY build 3D printers, I was expecting a lot of fine tuning to be needed on the UP! Mini but the OEM has made it almost as simple as the cartridge alignment on an inkjet printer !1. Set nozzle height from cellboard to 0.2mm (the thickness of two layers of 80g paper)2. Set offset at 9 points on the platform for correct nozzle height of 0.2mm at all points.3. Print calibration STL. Measure diagonals, heights and tilts. Enter data into table.Calibration completedThis procedure need only be completed once, with just regular checking of the nozzle height recommended. All this is done via a very friendly software interface. They could have done little to make it easier. If the unit is transported to a new location calibration should be checked. Its a bit like moving a piano reallyI hope readers have found this little dip into a beginners experiences with the UP! Mini interesting. I have certainly had fun over the past two days.In summary.... I like the printer. Whether it is worth the $600 retail price is dependant upon your needs and whether you can justify such a purchase to yourself. I was very lucky to get this virtually unused printer from Toploser at a price I could not refuse, so that made the decision easier for me. I believe prices will continue to fall and hopefully performance will either be maintained at lower cost, or even improved. You can wait forever to see what comes next though. I am pleased to have entered the world of 3D printing now as I have much to learn and plenty of uses for it.TTFNAurora

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 09:27:15 am
content: i have to say... nice print.. the ABS looks "milky" and "fluid". do you mind advising where can i get that ABS supply?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 01:05:52 pm
content: @mechatrommer,Sadly it is the UP! branded filament. They formulated it to work best at 260C and apparently it gives the best results achievable with an UP! printer. 3rd party filament can be used on them but I read reports that the result is slightly inferiorThe UP! filament is very expensive when compared to everyday 3rd party types and the colours available are limited. In the UK it costs £35 for a 700g reelIn the USA it is $35 for the same. I do not really like the white filament so I have bought a reel of the UP! black.I will be trying 3rd party filament in my UP! at some point in the future to compare results.I consider the UP! filament to be the same as cartridges for inkjet printers.... it's where the OEM makes all the profit ! The fact that the UP! software did not permit a lower extruder temperature infers that they do not want users buying alternative 3rd party lower temperature filaments. This is now fixed with a nice DLL hack detailed earlier in this thread.I checked my heated build platform and it runs at around 56C which is too low really. That will have to be addressed in due course. I need to forced air cool the motherboard first.I can't say I like the Cellboard either. Its damned hard to get the raft off of it. I will need to investigate alternatives.Aurora

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 03:31:11 pm
content: Aurora, how does that perforated bed work for you and how smooth are the bottom surfaces of the printed part?I tried it once with an open frame UP printer but now use only flat bed surfaces (metal bed + kapton or glass sheet + glue stick) without raft.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 05:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 21, 2015, 05:39:20 pmExcellent video. Thanks. I just subscribed to his channel.He says to heat the bed to 40c max for PLA. I am using 70C. Will try to lower next time. The recommendation I heard was to use 60-70C to have good first layer adhesion.Also, he says that PLA is brittle and not as strong than ABS. This is not my experience. PLA is very strong, has excellent layer adhesion and doesn't break. The main problem I have with PLA, which he didn't mention, is that it's harder to machine or sand. When I need to do that, I use a slow flow of water to keep it cool.He was talking about printers with active chamber heating for ABS. Anybody knows of a low end printer that does it (e.g. < $1500)? This may be a good feature to have in my next printer for perfect ABS printing.Here is a video about relative material strength from another 3D channel

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 06:24:52 pm
content: @zapta,I have not got on that well with the perforated UP! cellboard as the ABS flows into the 1mm holes and removing the raft is very challenging. UP! provide a scraper in the accessory kit (which I have not got) but I have had to resort to a stanley knife blade !The Cellboard is the Version 2 black coated type and is very expensive in the UK (£18-£22 each) I was going to buy a spare but I am no longer sure that I want to use these. I may go back to conventional boards that you coat with blue masking tape ?With regard to the finish that is left after removing the project from the raft, it is very good and the raft contact points shear away cleanly. I could rub it on a piece of fine sandpaper and polish it if required.Aurora

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 09:00:35 pm
content: I have found a UK company on ebay that will provide me with a 140mm x 140mm square of 1.5mm thick aluminium or stainless steel for only £3.50. I have also found a Polish ebay seller who supplies really nice looking, easily removable dual layer 'blue masking tape' squares to place on the build plate. I am going to give this a go to see how well a metal plate and the blue tape performs. The seller claims that one of the sheets lasts a long time in heavy use. I am a light user and you get 10 squares for around £3.50 + p&pMasking tape squares:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111671705553?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITAurora

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 09:18:36 pm
content: Others use masking tape on roll, and just place them side by side, or similarly use wider kapton tape.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 09:36:50 pm
content: I don't have a 3D printer but my friends that have them use also kapton tapeHere is a random video about applying kapton film to a base:

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 10:02:04 pm
content: Thanks for the advice guysI do have Kapton tape but that is expensive stuff to waste and I was not sure how well the ABS would stick to it. I saw the rolls of blue 50mm wide masking tape but thought I would give the Polish sheets a go as they are apparently easy to remove. From memory, the blue masking tape is only guaranteed to be easily removable within 24 hours.I shall have fun experimenting with what works and does not work as a build surfaceThe cellboard is supposed to be good stiff with its special coating but I must be doing something wrong. More practice needed maybeAurora

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 10:09:03 pm
content: Got rolls and rolls of Kapton tape here, can't see how customers could have buggered it up, probably just mislabelled or damaged boxes. Only 20mm wide stuff though.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 10:13:17 pm
content: On heated platforms hairspray and glass is the easiest.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 10:39:34 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 23, 2015, 01:05:52 pmbut its worth it, i'd rather buy more (slightly) expensive but quality than a slightly cheaper but crap filament. my aurora 3d came with a sample with 3mm white ABS, the printout is close like yours, strong bonding between layers, no shrinking and peeled layers but i dont know where the seller got it, i bought several reels of abs they are all somewhat crappy. i appreciate if you can give link to the supplier. i dont care about color i can post paint it, white is cool and ideal for this. i heard makerbot or what, printbot? they also sell quality abs but i havent time to look for it. otoh my unbranded PLA print is easy no peeled of layers strong bonding, the problem is lot of strings and printing bridge or overhang can be a problem. and lower melt temp, not suitable outdoor use.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 11:12:54 pm
content: Have you considered PLA? it's must more stable than ABS and easier to print. Initially I struggled with ABS and then gave up and am now very happy with PLA. It doesn't curl, interlayer lamination is good, first layer adhesion is good (using glass sheet + water soluble purple glue stick) and is easy to print in general.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 11:30:22 pm
content: me? yes i've considered. infact i have stock for both. but there are places where PLA is not suitable, as i said, in hot sun condition...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 03:04:32 pm
content: Amazon.com sell UP! filament in several colours including white.http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Filament-Diameter-Spool-Black/dp/B00TOOHN30/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432479308&sr=8-1&keywords=up%21+filamentThe PP3DP.com (manufacturer) website also has a list of regional agents. If you Google for 'UP! 3D filament' you should find it locally.Aurora

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 06:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on May 23, 2015, 10:13:17 pmHair spray is very nasty and hard to remove. If you wear glasses, keep them away while you spray.I switched to glass and purple water soluble glue and could not be happier. Another good surface is BuildTak.BTW, to remove the parts from the surface I am using a wide painting knife, #2 in this pic, and for smaller parts a quick horizontal tap with a very small hammer.Edit: I use knife #1 for transferring solder past to/from the squeegee and #5 to transfer small boards to the reflow oven. It's a very versatile set.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:22:41 pm
content: @Zapta,I just bought a 5 piece set of those palette knives from China for £2.50Thanks for bringing them to my attention. They look useful.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5Pcs-Stainless-Steel-Palette-Oil-Painting-Knife-Set-Wooden-Handle-S5-/181699864378?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4e27e73aI also bought some Amtech fine point tweezers the other day. Useful for removing the support material from hard to reach places. Cost was around £4.80 for a set of 6. I received them last week and quality is decent and well up to the task.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400870763799?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITAurora

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 08:19:19 pm
content: These are really good for removing support material super rigid. Most fishing stores carry them.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FLY-TYING-TOOLS-Large-6-Stainless-Steel-SERRATED-SCISSORS-PLIERS-NEW-/391122086931?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b10b16c13

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 03:40:34 am
content: believe it or not i have to use flat screwdriver and a hammer to pop out a printout out of the capton tape. a flat peeler like that will bend badly.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 04:34:12 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 25, 2015, 03:40:34 amI'm lucky I don't have this issue. I let my platform cool (4 hours ish) and lift off the item or a light tug. I use abs most of the time.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 05:11:20 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on May 25, 2015, 04:34:12 amthe thing got worst if i let the bed cool. and the thing got worsen if i use my homemade abs juice.but i rather doing that than having a curled printout. and oh forgot to mention, i use brim most of the time... and sometime skirt if i can conform the stickiness. i dont use raft, not a single day.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 06:25:15 am
content: They are interesting machines, the only real professional use I have is making connected standoffs. Basically 5 or 6 standoffs connected to make pcb installation easier. It is a time saver and easy to do. I have made a few bracket type items as well. The nice part is time, these are easy to do, I do small quantity items so 3-5 pcs is normal, no need to stock just print as needed. Certainly worth it for me (time wise in particular). And I own it so I can play with it as well.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 03:49:18 pm
content: Manufacturer web site with details of agents around the worldhttp://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=259:3d-printing-manufacturer-tiertime-announces-global-launch-of-up-box-desktop-3d-printer-&catid=43:blog&Itemid=55Mechatrommer, the Malaysian agent is shown as: 3D Printer Malaysia:http://www.3dprinter.com.my/3D Printer Sdn BhdUnit C-05-1 Sunway Giza, Dataran Sunway, Kota Damansara 47810 PJ, Selangor.Tel: +603-61517811 / +6019-2709811Email: my3dprinters@gmail.comFilament is detailed here and price:http://www.3dprinter.com.my/3d_printer_filament_malaysiaPrice is RM159 each for ABS.Aurora

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 05:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on May 25, 2015, 03:49:18 pmwell done! thank you very much for doing that i appreciate it. i never thought UP! will have distributer here. for a second i thought thats where i did my order previously but it turned out to be different. here where i ordered the crappy abs...http://www.3dprinter.mythe name are very much identical at first glimpse... i will try that for sure thanks!

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 12:24:10 pm
content: Excellent thread! Many thanks for the detailed review, Aurora (and the interesting counterpoints, Mechatrommer).I want to make a few custom enclosures out of ABS for some specialized test equipment* and have been considering several approaches:1. submit a sketch/description to a custom enclosure company and pay them to make a proper 3D file, prototype, etc. - most expensive route, possibly longest lead time, most difficult to tweak design, but requires least time/effort on my part.2. learn how to use a decent 3D cad program (but not a full-blown design suite like, e.g., SolidWorks) to make my own 3D file then submit it to a custom enclosure company - saves some NRE cost, quicker turnaround time but longer learning curve time on my part.3. same as #2 except also buy a 3D printer to make the prototypes, only sending off the STL file when I have totally nailed down the design - potentially higher up-front cost, but then I will actually learn a very valuable skill which will almost certainly enable me to make more interesting things in the future.Since the OP seems to have chosen option #3, I am curious about the 3D cad software he uses and whether he has used the UP! printer more since the last post in late May.* - one of which is something similar to the TTI i-proberhttp://www.tti-test.com/go/iprober/except for massively higher currents.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2015, 03:04:11 pm
content: Hi Magicsmoker,Thanks for your post.I personally went for option 3 because fellow forum member Toploser offered me the UP! At a very generous discount. Had it not been for his kindness I would have continued using 3d printing companies.I wanted a 3d printer in order to learn about the technology and software. It also provided an ability to make unusual custom parts without waiting for a 3rd party to make such for me. The down side was the equipment cost. I am retired and could not justify the retail price for the occasional 3D print. Toploser changed that equation by offering me a reputable 3d printer at a fraction of its retail cost.With regard to 3d printing hardware.....it is a minefield for the newbie. There are an awful lot of 3d printers on the market and many do not deliver on their promises. Some Googling proves that point ! I was very lucky.....Toploser was selling a Mini UP! that had suffered a mechanical fault in transit when it was first sol. It was a customer return for that reason, not poor performance. It was repaired by the agent before I bought it. Other 'customer returns' 3D printers should be treated with suspicion....it can often be due to poor performance. The Mini UP! Has a very good reputation for producing very nice prints with a minimum of fuss and little maintenance. A bit of a Holy Grail in the 3D printing world !My prints using the Mini UP! Have been far better quality than I had expected and I am more than pleased with its performance. It sits neatly on my office desk, very much like a mini tower PC case. I program it from nothing more powerful than a Sony Vaio netbook running a 1.83GHz ATOM processor. I even draw my Designs using this less than powerful little Netbook PCWhen I received my printer, I did some test prints and these were great but they did show slight angles on the verticals. The bed was not perfectly flat and I had not carried out the full printer calibration routine that includes a bed levelling compensation routine. I measured about 2mm of run out on the bed left to right and 1mm front to rear. Whilst the compensation routine would have used the raft to fix this, I realised that the run out was likely shipping 'damage' from its original purchase. All 3d printers need to have their mechanical alignment checked and adjusted when first purchased. The UP! Series are no different. Treat 3d printers as you would a fine Piano and you will not go wrong. The good news is that UP! Printers tend to remain stable in terms of alignment, unlike many other brands of 3D printer. I carried out a full alignment check on the unit and it was only the bed that needed some very minor adjustment via the provided adjustment screws. All very straight forward. The run out on the bed is now minimal and well within the machines automatic compensation capabilities.The bed on the UP! Mini has been criticised for being heated to a relatively cool 60c. When using ABS it is best to have a bed running at 80C to 100c to prevent warping during the print. I have bought, but not fitted, a stock of new thermostat modules at different temperatures to experiment with. These are simple TO220 format devices fitted to the bottom of the heater bed. I have yet to experiment with these but will likely go for the 80C setting. The heated bed also warms the interior of the printer. This is considered an advantage when working with ABS. I only use ABS filament as I prefer to work in this very versatile material that may be sanded and glued easily.The UP! Is not perfect however. It has a 100mm x 100mm x 100mm build space which can be too small for some users (not me though). The heater in the bed is not as powerful as is recommended for ABS printing. The motherboard is exposed to the elevated internal temperature of the enclosure. It smells pretty awful when running !On the smell front.... When printing a large item, the vapours coming off of the ABS filament when melted will make your eyes water and not put you in the good books of your family or pets !On the usage front, I have used the 3d printer around once per week since getting it. Most prints have been for friends thoughOnce people know you have a 3d printer, you start getting requests to print all manner of items. To date I have had one failed print due to the raft not sticking to the build platform and so no 'scaffolding' was built in that area, just a mass of very thin filament, like a birds nest ! All other prints have been of excellent quality and the printer continues to impress.On the software front, I taught myself to use Google Sketch-up. It does what I need of it and is simple to use. There is a full set of learning material and help on line. I have not needed more sophisticated CAD software to date.From my perspective the purchase of the UP! Mini is a win on several levels1. I now own a 3d printing capability2. I have learnt a lot about the mechanics of a 3D printer and its foibles3. I have learnt about the software needed to create 3D files for the printer4. I am now in a position to create my own 3D designs for printing.5. My knowledge of filament materials and their needs has been expanded.6. I have gained great satisfaction from both learning about 3D printing and creating 3D objects from simple ABS filament. When you open the door and see your CAD design in physical form, it's a great feeling of achievement.I would recommend anyone to learn about 3D printing, the CAD software and design concepts. You do not need the printer to learn about the design software. Such knowledge is very useful theses days. If the budget or opportunity allows, I would recommend buying a reputable 3D printer. Do not buy cheap printers with unknown, or known poor, performance, you will only be frustrated by them ! Do not waste your money... Buy wisely.Hope this helpsAurora

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 12:28:37 pm
content: Fantastic reply that was full of good info Aurora! You confirmed a few things I suspected and provided good warning on some that I had not (e.g. - that ABS smells bad when heated!).Unfortunately, it looks like the work envelope of the UP! is too small for my initial application - I figure I'll need at least 150mm in either/both the X and Y axes - but your extensive review gives me a lot of things to look for regardless. This sitehttp://www.3dprintinggeeks.com/is one that I have been referring to a lot for printer comparisons. It seems to be a better source of reviews than the sometimes-clueless comments on, e.g., Amazon. [edit - strike that, the reviews on the site itself have the distinct flavor of advertising copy and the user reviews are from Amazon anyway...]As for the CAD software to get, I've been considering DesignSpark Mechanical, Sketchup and Autodesk 123D. Not sure which one I will go with yet, but the first two are kind of expensive for the occasional, albeit commercial, uses that I anticipate (both are ~700USD) so 123D is the current winner by default (and the Dremel Idea Builder printer it seems to be partnered with is one I am strongly considering). [edit - no longer considering; only uses PLA, no temperature adjustment; now looking at the Lulzbot Mini which is ~1350USD]Thanks again!

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:19:31 pm
content: QuoteYou may be surprised at how effective the cheapest 3d printers are. I've recently purchased one from Aliexpress for $275 USD with free shipping and, apart from a couple of obvious and easily fixed problems, it is very good. The quality of the prints it can do is impressive, and because it is based on the standard open-source platform individual upgrades can be sourced from may places.The downside is the frame is not very rigid being acrylic, and that limits the top speed as it becomes less precise. This isn't really a problem for me as I prefer printing fine detail stuff which needs to be printed very slowly anyway.OpenSCAD is free and very easy to learn for creating designs. It's a simple and small package too which is a breath of fresh air.So for a total spend of around $300 you can have something that will produce the same results as $2000 gear. If you are new to 3d printers I would recommend going that way as you will learn heaps and can decide if you want to upgrade later on.This is what I would look for in a printer:* A source of cheap and high quality filament* Very stiff and rigid frame and extruder assembly* Extruder with a small 'hot zone' and a sharp transition to the cold zone* Standard electronics and parts

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 01:52:01 am
content: Quote from: MagicSmoker on August 17, 2015, 12:28:37 pmthat exoskeleton threaded shaft mendel looks fragile, i suspect it will moves alot during printing or porting to another place. $599 with no LCD is at the rank of "expensive" price now in OSHW league... this new generation prusa clone has LCD and cheaper...http://www.ebay.com.my/itm/New-3D-printer-DIY-Print-6-filament-Full-Acrylic-Frame-Prusa-I3-X-self-assembly-/281754389506?hash=item4199decc02i bought mine older generation no LCD, but recently i upgraded success the LCD with close guidance from reprap forum info. edit: and forgot to mention, the prusa/clone build is 20cmx20cmx17cm, greater than the above linked printinggeek mendel.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 03:54:15 am
content: QuoteThe Mendel design is actually pretty rigid front to back (Y axis) due to the triangular shape, and is easy to pick up and move around. It's a little bit worse than the i3 side to side (X axis).The acrylic i3's need to be attached to some sort of base (not included) before they become rigid enough to pickup and move easily. I just printed some mounts and screwed them to a 10mm board.I agree about the price though, it is expensive compared to what is available now.There is a Wanhao brand i3 which is all steel and more expensive which doesn't have the floppy Y axis problem.http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-Printer-Wanhao-Duplicator-i3-All-Metal-Construction-Graphics-Display-/201375601189?var=&hash=item2ee2ebd225

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2015, 10:33:31 am
content: Something to be considered when buying an open frame 3D printer is what material you intend to print with. I understand that ABS likes to be printed in a warm environment, without cooling air draughts that can cause distortion and cracking in the print. I have no experience of this however so cannot confirm or deny that it is an issue.I am also aware that some printers are PLA only and that some claim to be PLA and ABS, but do not cope well with the higher temperature ABS printing. A heated platform is also highly recommended for ABS printing to avoid warping. As already stated, I print only in ABS as I like the material.Aurora

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2015, 04:15:58 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 20, 2015, 10:33:31 amif one really concerns...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2015, 01:04:21 pm
content: Update:I am pleased to report that the UP! Mini 3D printer has been providing superb service since its acquisition. I thought 3D printing was supposed to be a PITA ? Not in my case. It has been as simple as using a 2D printer or plotter. I cannot praise this printer enough. A manufacturer who has managed to make a 3D printer that does not need lots of fiddling to achieve good resultsI was so impressed with it that I went after another Customer a Returns unit. I got it for only £115 delivered and from the pictures it looks like it has never been used. It comes still fully packed in its box with its filament and all accessories. Extruder head has not been used or fitted.Looks to be ex CPC from what I can see. I suspect it could have a minor issue like a cracked slide rod bracket like mine had suffered. It could also be perfect as some customer returns are as a result of buyers remorse. The seller admitted that he had no real idea what is was or what it can do. Once I have it I will report on my findings. Very happy to have another of these great printers.I have also ordered a spare Extruder heater, thermocouple, filament guide and nozzle assembly as these are the most likely failure points in these printers over time. At £26 delivered from China it was not too bad a price.The whole extruder print head is a lot more expensive at around £150 but I would be surprised to need a replacement complete head.If anyone else has the opportunity to buy an UP! Brand printer I can certainly recommend the Mini model