The earth is flat?   - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:33:53 am
content: The

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 04:17:16 am
content: if you still live in a 2 dimensional world, then yes, the Earth is flat.

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:54:25 am
content: So what? Just because he doesn't believe the official science, does not mean that he is crazy. A lot of thing that are "official science" are bollocks. L-ascorbic acid for example is not a vitamin C, but since majority of scientists voted that it is, it is now "official science". Who cares about other scientists who argued that it is not the case, majority wins. Science is democracy.Have you ever been in space and seen the Earth with your own eyes? No. So stop labeling people.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:37:42 am
content: I think we might have a customer for Dave's valve headphone amp.....

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:38:09 am
content: Anyone who actually wants to find out just need to launch a weather balloon to high altitude with a gopro, load the footage into photoshop and correct for the lens distortion and view the true curvature.If they cant be bothered doing that then they don't really "think" it's flat, they just want to "talk" about it being flat.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:49:12 am
content: "Rapper". I guess that says enough of the science level one can expect from that person. I guess he's never been on a window seat on daylight high altitude flight.What troubles me is that some naive, poorly educated people listen to him.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:52:42 am
content: Naaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!We're looking at it all wrong!There is a well known mathematical technique that allows you to treat a small enough section of whatever topography you wish to examine as straight. Curvature then comes from joining up these infinitely small segments.So, this guy is just looking at the world in tiny patches!Heez a geenyus!

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 09:03:06 am
content: If the world wasn't flat then Mr Jones would be on the bottom of a sphere (all reference points start at Greenwich by definition of British Empire) and he would fall off into space, clearly hasn't happened yet. QED

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 10:51:34 am
content: Quote from: Srbel on January 26, 2016, 06:54:25 amTake a flight with an airplane. There is enough height to notice that earth isn't flat. BTW I don't think this rapper din't ever take a flight either.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 01:35:50 pm
content: Someone should send him the link to the Flat Earth Society. They would welcome him with open arms

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2016, 10:51:34 amStanding on a beach and looking at the curve of the horizon is enough for that.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:43:54 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2016, 10:51:34 amI'm too scared to fly after having earth rotation and flight explained in

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:48:44 pm
content: Similar topic I suppose so I will drop this here:http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/048627263X/2 dimensional world. Actually flat.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 02:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: cleaningOut on January 26, 2016, 04:18:26 amTrust me; it just happens.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:00:11 pm
content: It's pretty much amazing that we live stuck to a large sphere. Not very obvious unless if you are the little prince.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on January 26, 2016, 06:54:25 amJust like "man caused climate change" a bunch of dudes in lab coast said it is so with no proof or experiments to back it up.String theory = Bullshit

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:08:39 pm
content: I just leave this rather fitting video here:Greetings

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:20:39 pm
content: Quote from: hayatepilot on January 26, 2016, 03:08:39 pmI wish you hadn't.Really, people who believe in the flat-earth theory should hung themselves just to defy gravity.

author: hayatepilot
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on January 26, 2016, 03:20:39 pmIt's actually a video against the "flat-earthers" from Vsauce. Very good stuff.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 03:31:15 pm
content: The whole flat earth subject is like free energy!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 04:20:50 pm
content: Early Navigators worked it out.As a Sailing ship sails away,first,you see the whole ship,then the sails,then the top part of the mast,then nothing.It still happens,even if you use a high powered telescope.Millions of seafarers over thousands of years did that "experiment".Various brands of "God botherers" may have decreed otherwise,but sailors knew the truth.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 05:02:10 pm
content: Quote from: Srbel on January 26, 2016, 06:54:25 amYes, he is. Not because he doesn't believe "official science", but because he's choosing to ignore what has been tested, measured, and observed millions of times for thousands of years, by everyone ranging between a child watching a ship at sea, to an astronaut taking pictures and streaming live video while sitting in a ship/station looking at the round earth from space. All with ZERO evidence to back up his side of the "argument" (in quotes because it's really not). He is crazy, as are all of the other flat earth nutters. Crazy, and moronic.Funny thing is I bet he regularly uses the GPS in his car to get around the city. How, exactly, would GPS work correctly if the earth was flat?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 05:51:12 pm
content: It always amazes me when someone is already clever enough to speak, or to do basic activities, like eat without help or repeat basic sentences; yet they are not able to comprehend basic reasoning and make logical conclusions of the level of a 6 year old. It's like a cog missing from a machine, you see it turning in the beginning, but then at the end nothing happens.I really wonder: If human reproduction would be something that requires learning or logic, would there be more Goethe and Curie, or the same as with this guy (whoever he is).

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on January 26, 2016, 05:02:10 pmNot to mention watch satellite TV - which is another "doesn't work if the earth is flat" technology

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:15:45 pm
content: Has he ever thought why he cannot see Himalaya from the plane when he flies in the US. Or, why there are those timezones anywayAlso, it would be quite entertaining to listen how these "the earth is flat" people explain why we see the stars differently at different parts of the world.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:22:44 pm
content: ObSF: Terry Pratchett's'Strata'

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:24:00 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 26, 2016, 05:51:12 pmThe sad part this is completely opposite. The dumbest ones replicate much better because the smart people have much more interesting things to do rather than just f**k everything that moves. Also smart ones will first try to achieve good conditions before deciding to bear the children, stupid ones just replicate.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2016, 06:24:00 pmThat is on purpose the dumb don't question their government.They eagerly trade their freedom for a handout, a place to live and food for a day.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on January 26, 2016, 06:11:07 pmDidn't you know the satellites are levitated using lodestones? They have to be above the atmosphere because of air drag - if they stop spinning the lodestone levitation will fail. :lol:

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on January 26, 2016, 06:27:21 pmThere is a thought that USSR collapsed because of the too good education. As most of the people had uni education, they started to think and question the government too much.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 26, 2016, 03:00:11 pmI assume you misspelled that one, you obviously meant square!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 06:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 26, 2016, 06:31:02 pmThat is an interesting theory, I am sure it contributed to it's collapse.I tend to go with the economic collapse theory instead.Consider this;The US was forcing them to keep up with the arms race, corruption as is with most governments was growing and an economic drain along with contributor to the disillusionment that their brand of communism was not working.Given this; I think you have hit on one of the contributing causes to the collapse.Almost nothing ever fails due to one cause.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 07:04:37 pm
content: No the world is not a disc ! It is a line ! Other people are just figments of your imagination. We all live in a synthesized world running on some retarded computer built by a being made from snot.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:41:52 pm
content: I live near a correction point from the Northwest Survey (late 1700s) in Chicago.I use that as a proof of the earth's non-flatulence.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on January 26, 2016, 08:41:52 pm

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:47:02 pm
content: ... but the earth *IS* flatulent:http://geology.com/articles/methane-hydrates/

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 08:47:59 pm
content: More crap from the rap..Flat earth rapper BoB releases Neil deGrasse Tyson diss trackIn response to the astrophysicist taking issue with his claim that earth is flat, rapper releases track larded with conspiracy theories and a shoutout for Holocaust denier David Irvinghttp://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jan/26/flat-earth-rapper-bob-neil-degrasse-tyson-diss-track

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 09:02:59 pm
content: My favorite in all this (since most flat earthers also say the moon landings were faked), is the video of then 70-something Buzz Aldrin punching out the idiot who kept harassing him saying it was all fake.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 09:53:47 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on January 26, 2016, 09:02:59 pm<- this. all those morons deserve swift kick into whatever body part hurts the most and the longest.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 10:05:30 pm
content: You really don't want to kick a windbag full of sh*te hard enough to do any good - unless you are wearing a full Bio-HazMat suit and have immediately accessible Decon washdown facilities. Instead I suggest encouraging them to volunteer to join an immersive experiential study of the migratory habits of panicked lemmings on Thor Peak, Auyuittuq National Park, Baffin Island, Nunavut, Canada.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 11:17:20 pm
content: Whom do you trust? The dude with the bling who knows how to make dollars or the dude who looks sympathetic and have a brain?

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 11:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on January 26, 2016, 03:01:26 pmSo tell me why you believe that all the collected data is wrong but what some politician told you is real. I mean, you know that's where the entirety of climate change denial comes from, right? You believe a politician over reality. Too bad reality doesn't care about your opinion. You are no better than the flat earther, you just have more idiots on your side. And yet, the actual data doesn't change. Funny, that.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2016, 11:30:03 pm
content: quantum physics : the dreams stuff is made from.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 12:02:44 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 26, 2016, 11:30:03 pmNow you are talking...

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 12:45:58 am
content: some guy interviewing a genuine flat earther for an hourwhen he's not just casually talking and actually answering questions (when he FINALLY understands them), he talks exactly like how I imagine someone who's deeply brainwashed would. in a calm monotone dictation. his circular reasoning and complete unwillingness to understand basic concepts does my head in. he seemingly lacks the cognitive functions to grasp geometry. or he burned those neurons out watching "educational videos"ever notice how it's not enough that most flat earthers believe the earth is flat, but that they tend to believe in every single other conspiracy as well? only way their world makes sense, I suppose, is if EVERYTHING is inside-out.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:07:34 am
content: Homeboy don't know who he's messin' wid'.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:11:38 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on January 26, 2016, 06:15:45 pmBased on what I've seen/read, flat earthers explain this by stating that there's a limit in distance that sight can "see". Which is insane. Their idea of how even photons work is ass backwards.More videos I've found.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:19:32 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on January 27, 2016, 01:11:38 amHuh...so how do they explain stars? Do they really think the stars, sun, moon, other planets, etc. are just a few miles away?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:21:56 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on January 27, 2016, 12:45:58 amThat's the only explanation that makes any sense to me...a COMPLETE and utter failure to understand basic geometry. Frankly I'm amazed any of these people made it to adolescence, much less adulthood without Darwin-ing themselves.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:29:47 am
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on January 27, 2016, 01:19:32 amYup!Watch the videos I posted if you have an hour or two to kill. The first one at the bottom of the last page especially.They have to keep making their physics stranger and stranger, or else it all falls apart. You can almost hear their brain creaking when they talk.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:36:42 am
content: If I were to sum-up on how their brains think, it's like they think sight is something that comes *out* of our eyes, and hits the object we are seeing. Take that backwards-ness, and apply it to everything, geometry, physics, traveling on a boat, light, sound, purpose, identity, etc, and that's EXACTLY how they explain everything.It really does my head in, though I can't stop researching it.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 06:59:43 am
content: Wow, just wow. Just read through this thread for some early morning entertainment and I'm rather disappointed in some members of the human race.If someone holds a belief when there is overwhelming evidence  to the contrary then they are merely idiots. insert rant here about the scientific method and how statistical correlation isn't evidence, how Feynman said science's measure is experiment and various complaints about pseudo-science and charlatans in modern science but that's another thread...

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 07:02:39 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on January 27, 2016, 12:45:58 amPlease, Lord, do not let that idiot procreate!How do you survive into adulthood being that dense? That was surreal.-Pat

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 10:45:11 am
content: I lived in Austin Texas for a while and believe me, the earth is fat.Actually I liked Austin a lot. Far more technical people in Austin than anywhere else I have been. Engineers, technicians, scientists in abundance. Plus it is the live music capital of the world. Obesity is a problem there, but it is now here too in Australia. Especially with older electronics engineers who sit on their backsides all day like me.As for the flat earth mentality, I know an Illuminati crackpot who says he has proof man did not walk on the moon. He asks the questions "So where did the astronauts get the battery re-chargers from for the air-conditioning backpacks on their space suits?" and "If they had rechargers in 1969, where did they get the mains power to plug into?" He said to me the Illuminati are planning to wipe out 90% of the world's population to save the environment. His brother, a normal person, warned me "When you see my brother, whatever you do,DON'Tsay the word Illuminati!" I tried it once and his brother switched into speaking Illuminati frogshit for hours. I know another Illuminati believer who says the Illuminati were behind the recent terrorist attacks in France and George Bush Senior was part of a central committee which hatched the plan. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I guess, no matter how stupid and illogical it is.OK, people can believe what they want, but whatever you do and wherever you go, DON'T MENTION THE ILLUMINATI!

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 10:58:16 am
content: No, I disagree. Some people are just too stupid to be entitled to an opinion. The irony is that some otherwise very smart people are also that stupid.I've had discussions with people who don't believe in the moon landings. Any evidence you give them, they simply reject, saying it's fake. How can you have a rational discussion with someone who simply says everything you tell them is a lie of one sort or another, and all evidence is manufactured? "Look, here are photographs from LRO that show the landing sites and even the astronaut's footpaths!" "Fake, the photos came from NASA didn't they, that's proof that NASA is lying."

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 11:04:08 am
content: Quote from: ErikTheNorwegian on January 26, 2016, 12:53:44 pmBob... from Batteriser?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 11:24:46 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on January 26, 2016, 03:01:26 pmNext step is pushing the "public opinion" to get the flat-earth-movement subsidized.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 11:56:38 am
content: I was at a non-technical friends house just the other day........he (and his brother - also non-technical) believe in all sorts of conspiracies including faked moon landings, 911 weren't passenger jets & explosives were used, free energy etc etc etc................well, this day he announced he was looking into the flat earth thing and although he wasn't totally convinced he did see it as a credible idea.This time I just laughed.......and said "Andrew, enough is enough..........you've been duped by internet gossip and tripe long enough, please stop!".I remember his "free energy" days.....he believed in it sooooo much he brought his laptop down to my house to view a particular webpage about it.......it was a long, long single webpage with all sorts of stories and "facts" about free energy..........he was right into it but I stopped him and said, "I'll bet there is a book for sale at the very bottom of the page".........he said "no, no this is just all public information from scientists" etc........so we scrolled down anyways..............yup, I rest my case.Ian.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 12:03:45 pm
content: QuoteAt least they didn't insist that it is consensus among 90% of the scientists,

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on January 26, 2016, 04:20:50 pmI think you have misunderstood that observation. You are observing the light reflected from the ship. Now Mr Einstein (definitely a clever bloke) says that E=mc^2 which leads us to the conclusion that the photons you are observing have mass. Since they have mass they are affected by gravity so they fall into the sea, the further away the ship is the further the photons are affected and more photons fall into the sea and hence the ship disappears.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:10:18 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2016, 10:45:11 amI live in Florida, the earth IS flat. The highest point here is a trash heap. OK, that's a joke but the highest point is 345' ASL. Add to the fact that the water table here is only 32" down, I discovered that digging a hole for an antenna mast. 'Nuff said.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2016, 01:38:11 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 27, 2016, 10:45:11 amI get a kick out of the "We didn't walk on the moon folks"So I see you folks down under are getting American style adulterated food now...

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 02:31:04 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 27, 2016, 01:07:49 pmThat doesn't explain why the ship disappears progressively,in the fashion it does.In a flat earth,the sight line to the uppermost parts of the ship is longer,so that the photons from that part would "fall into the sea" first.Instead,they are the last parts of the ship you can see.A clever bloke called Magellan set out to sail round the world in 1519 --Unfortunately,he died en route,as did many of his expedition,but one ship & its company completed the voyage.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 02:38:24 am
content: No .... I have to disagree.The photons closer to the water have less distance to fall than the ones at the top of the ship - so they will obviously hit the water first. The ones at the top of the mast have a much longer way to fall, so they will take much longer to do so.This completely explains the observed behaviour.

author: CaptCrash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 04:08:04 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 27, 2016, 01:07:49 pmQuote from: Brumby on January 28, 2016, 02:38:24 amNope, falling photons are in no way representative of the change in the view of the ship.If we assumed that the earth was flat and an observer who is 1.7m tall to the pupil is viewing a ship on the horizon that is 40m from the tip of its mast to the waterline.The distance to the horizon at sea level for an observer that is 1.7m tall is approx 4.7Km (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon)Speed of light in air is about 299700 km/s (about 90 km/s slower than c). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light)Basic mathWe can use Pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance between the waterline of the ship and the observers pupil.x1 = 4700m (distance to ship on horizon)y1 = 1.7m (distance between observers pupil and the water line)z1 = square root of (x1 squared + y1 squared)z1 = 4700.000307446799mWe can also use Pythagorean theorem to calculate the distance between the tip of the ships mast and the observers pupil.x2 = 4700m (distance to ship on horizon)y2 = 40m - 1.7m (distance between observers pupil and the tip of the ships mast)z2 = square root of (x2 squared + y2 squared)z2 = 4700.156049537079mTime taken for light to travel the distance between the observer and the waterline of a ship on the horizon z1.t1 = z1 (in Km) / Speed of light (in Km/s)t1 = (4700.000307446799/1000) / 299700t1 = 0.00001568235004 secondsTime taken for light to travel the distance between the observer and the tip of the ships mast on the horizon z2.t2 = z2 (in Km) / Speed of light (in Km/s)t2 = (4700.156049537079/1000) / 299700t2 = 0.0000156828697 secondsSo now we have the times of flight, we can calculate the variation that gravity would introduce into the path of the light.Gravity will be able to move the photon from the bottom of the ship approx 0.00015368703039m in this time.Gravity will be able to move the photon from the top of the ships mast approx 0.00015369212306m in this time.In both cases the total movement of the photon of 0.15369mm (rounded to 5 decimal places), i.e. still well within the ability of your eye to pickup the incoming photon.As such the idea that gravity makes the ship disappear is laughable, the deflection of the photon is not significant. As such this is not a credible argument that the earth is flat.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 04:23:24 am
content: Oh, bummer.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 04:24:05 am
content: Quote from: CaptCrash on January 28, 2016, 04:08:04 amOf course gravity makes the ship disappear! It is gravity that keeps the ship stuck to the surface of the water so it follows the curvature of the earth as it sails away. If there were no gravity the ship could sail on a level path up into the sky and towards the stars.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 04:52:52 am
content: Listen, boyo, flat isn't the half of it!

author: Landrew2390
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 04:57:19 am
content: In my dealings with conspiracy theorists, they're concrete thinkers without the concrete background to match. They're wired to think scientifically, but they don't have the education to understand what they're seeing. Because of this mismatch, they end up hunting theories that support their observations. And everything on the internet is true . . .

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2016, 06:06:37 am
content: Quote from: helius on January 28, 2016, 04:52:52 amHello sailor!

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:16:54 am
content: Extremely few people actually believe the Earth is flat.On the other hand, for over a year there has been a wave of people vocally pushing flat Earth rubbish. Recently it's getting very strident. Yet I don't see a single post in this thread actually wondering about why that is, let alone approaching the true underlying cause.What's actually happening: It's a well funded psyop campaign, using paid shills pushing this crap, whose objective is to well-poison, time-waste and distract online alternative news and discussion forums. They don't believe the flat Earth rubbish, they are just doing it for the pay. Classic psychopaths most of them. As usual, there are some gullible useful idiots who fall for it, actually believe such crap, and add volume to the noise. There would be fewer of both types (psychopaths and ignorant gullible fools) if the education system and society itself weren't horribly broken, but that's what we have.Flat Earth is just one of the bullshit lines, others are 'no Moon landings', 'hollow Earth', and so on. Anything to stop people thinking and talking about real issues like the ongoing economic crash, massive US gov f*ckups and war crimes in the Middle East, 911 Truth breaking through the MSM lies, Israel & US governments being genocidal lunocracies infested with Neocon/Zionist/EndTimes freaks, total breakdown of the Rule of Law, multiple gov-run mass shootings and attacks having their MSM-pushed lying stories falling apart, the FED and private banking fiat money scam collapsing, the globalist/NWO 'global warming' scare story spectacularly failing as the Sun's new Maunder Minimum begins and freezing weather in the tropics makes prominent fools of the warmists, ongoing government push towards martial law and complete disarmament of the people, and so on.The elites are getting desperate, realizing that if they don't put a lid on the Awakening, it's inevitably going to result in many elite heads on pikes. Hence all this desperate, pathetic shit like "Hey, the Earth is flat!"Just ignore the lying amoral paid-shill f*ckers, and their few gullible useful idiots. Shun them."We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."-- William Casey, Director of Central Intelligence. An observation by the late Director at his first staff meeting in 1981. Spoken to President Reagan, who apparently took it as a given.Ref:http://qr.ae/RbjlAkQuote from: Srbel on January 26, 2016, 06:54:25 amYou badly misunderstand the nature of science. It is absolutely not a democracy. It is a disproof-ocracy. Theories and hypotheses are accepted and used as basis for work, until shown by experimental facts or rigorous logic to be false. That's it. How many scientists 'believe' this or that has nothing to do with it. In fact, a good scientist should never 'believe' anything. Ideally he or she should be able to simultaneously consider multiple conflicting theories in an unbiased manner.And political/historical/social theories are no different. Just much fuzzier rules of proof, and no facility for controlled experiment.Quote from: coppice on January 26, 2016, 02:24:22 pmWait, what? If you are at ground/ocean level and there are no hills, the horizion line you see is indistinguishable to human perception from a geometric plane. It only starts to look obviously 'round' if you get enough altitude for the Earth's visible perimeter to subtend significantly less than half of the sphere surrounding you. That takes a lot of altitude. Upper atmosphere, or better yet way out in space - more than 100 miles up.Quote from: NANDBlog on January 26, 2016, 05:51:12 pmIt always amazes me, when someone is looking at a suddenly appearing widespread pretended 'public opinion swell', that is fundamentally irrational and in denial of obvious physical facts but does seems to have a deliberate purpose and obvious benefit to some group, and they flatly fail to consider the possibility of organized intent. Did you know the phrase 'conspiracy theorist' as a derogatory term was invented by the CIA and injected into the media by them, as part of their effort to kill off public speculation about high level involvement in the Kennedy assassination? It's amazing how well that worked. Seems like most people these days are totally conditioned to reject (and avoid even being aware of) any idea that government works by manipulating public opinion and beliefs to accept what The Powers That Be intend to do.It's like a cog missing from most people's minds. Politics throughout all human history has been mostly about conspiracies, and always will be. Only in the most ideal, rare circumstances has government been open, moral and sane. These times are not one of them."All this was inspired by the principle -- which is quite true in itself -- that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes..."-- Adolf Hitler, Mein KampfSo, a Hitler quote. You'll nod your heads and agree "Yeah, what a bastard that guy was." Yet you'll refuse to consider that almost all politicians think like this. Especially today.Here's one by not-Hitler."The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society."-- Propaganda p. 37 Edward Bernays 1928Bernays was another utter bastard. Who also virtually founded the principles of advertising.Quote from: free_electron on January 26, 2016, 11:30:03 pmNice! One humor gem in this entire dolorous thread.Quote from: suicidaleggroll on January 27, 2016, 01:21:56 amA COMPLETE and utter failure to understand basic human nature, and that many people will lie and scheme without any hesitation or limit.Frankly, I'm amazed that global institutions are not spiralling into utter chaos and war, risking Darwin-ing the entire human race. Oh wait...Quote from: cloudscapes on January 27, 2016, 01:36:42 amCan you explain *what* it is that makes you never consider the possibility they are flatly lying? About flatness, ha ha.Quote from: MrSlack on January 27, 2016, 06:59:43 amAgain... or they are lying about 'believing.' Why don't you at least list this possibility?Seriously, who's the fool then?I'm so disappointed in some members of the human race who seem permanently blind to the simple concept of deliberate, organized deception.Quote from: Galenbo on January 27, 2016, 11:24:46 amWhy do you assume the flat Earth movement isn't already 'subsidized'?It's well established, factually and beyond any reasonable doubt, that several national governments run well funded astroturfing projects. Paid guys sitting at consoles, using purpose designed software to each run very, very many 'virtual personas' on web forums, all pushing scripted viewpoints and disrupting any discussions to the contrary.With what part of 'subsidized public opinion manipulation' do you have conceptual difficulty?"What luck for rulers that men do not think"-- Adolf HitlerExactly. He'd be in awe of today's developed science of public opinion manipulation.And frankly, the people wielding that power today are more dangerous and evil than Hitler ever was.Not really on topic but worth listening - an interview with Dr Paul Craig Roberts, Dec 17th 2015http://silverfarm.podbean.com/e/dr-paul-craig-roberts-sot-complete-interview/

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:24:36 am
content: [citation needed]

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 02:31:59 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 02:16:54 amOnly one problem with that: I and many other people have stood on the beach or the deck of a ship and looked at the horizon. It is curved. So you need to explain why a curved horizon is indistinguishable to human perception from a geometric plane.Have you ever stood on a geometrically flat surface that extends for hundreds of kilometres in all directions and seen what that looks like? How can you possibly know?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:54:35 am
content: The observable curvature is related to the elevation of the observer in proportion to the size of the sphere.I can draw diagrams - but I don't have time right now....

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 06:04:34 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on January 31, 2016, 02:24:36 amIf that's a reply to my post, to which part? Because I certainly can provide citations to most of it. Certainly to the existence of paid forum-shill operations. I only didn't since I assume most people are already aware of that, and the post was too long already. Didn't you hear of the H B Gary (a web security co that got hacked) revelations, for instance?Specifically to the flat Earth net-push being run from the shill centers, no. That's merely a very strong hunch. And my point is, why has NO ONE in this thread previously even wondered if the recent flat Earth nonsense might be originating from such sources? It's a remarkably blind logical oversight.Quote from: IanB on January 31, 2016, 02:31:59 amNext time you go to the beach, take a meter rule with you. Hold it to the horizon. I think you'll get a surprise. It's an interesting optical illusion.Also, do you wear glasses? Many prescriptions produce a distortion that makes things look curved when they are not. Some of my glasses have slightly different magnifications in X and Y planes. You don't notice it normally, until you try to hand draw a circle. Rotate it 90 deg, and wonder why it is now an oval. Very annoying.QuoteHa ha, I live in Australia. Yes, I have.Interesting. You don't immediately visualize the simple geometric case, and work out what you would see? It's a very easy case to visualize. In the infinite plane case, the 'horizon' will be a great circle exactly bisecting the sphere of your total observable space. And amusingly, for the infinite plane case, it won't make any difference how far above the plane you are.The closer an actual horizon circle, relative to your height above the surface, the smaller the subtended angle of the cone that circle forms, with you at the point. So the horizon drops below that infinite great circle. Thing is, it doesn't start perceptibly dropping, till the ratio of your height to the horizon distance is becomes something appreciable. It's a Tan trig function thing.I'm curious. If you insist the horizon looks curved to you, what would it look like if it went all the way around you? (Say you are standing on a low rock in the middle of the ocean.) It has to meet up again. So, how far below your eye level do you think it has to be, to look curved?Darn it... I have a friend who got slightly sucked into the flat Earth nonsense (he's not scientific) and one of the Flatter's points that troubled him, was their claim that "surveyors can't measure Earth's deviation from a flat surface."Sigh... apart from having to compensate for the curvature on long geodetic surveys... and distort maps to print them on paper sheets... but he's not aware of that and nor are most people.Anyway, the spiel he was referring to is that "Earth's curvature should produce a drop (from a flat plane) of about 8 inches per mile. And surveyors are unable to measure that."Well, I sat down and wrote out the workings. (But now can't find the bit of paper, and don't want to do it again.) It's true, for the Earth's radius, the deviation of an ideal spherical surface from a tangent plane, is about 8 inches after the first mile.But go ahead, try and measure that. Good luck. Apart from the instrument precision required, the fact that the surface is MUCH more irregular than that (even at sea, in calm weather, and even in canals), there's also light beam curvature due to atmospheric pressure gradient, local gravity variations affecting 'level', and plenty more.But, I bet you could measure it using a dual-output laser, on a very large, very still lake. (With no mountains or significant orebodies nearby to distort gravity.) Set the beam up on a stable platform (preferably an island) at known height above the water. Then measure its height to the water several miles away on both sides. Mess around getting those two equal if you are a perfectionist. Then start figuring out what external effects are still throwing the difference off from what you'd expect it to be. Wind, gravity variations, humidity gradient in the air above the water, etc. Eventually you should be able to get the right value.This stuff just illustrates how ignorant most people are of real world measurement issues and achievable precision.But of course, the paid shills would just completely ignore your disproof of their rubbish, as if you never spoke.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 06:39:14 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 02:16:54 amIt's pretty much obvious that there is a psyop campaign in the forums but how can we know that you are not one of them? Your posts here looks too suspicious to me.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 07:06:34 am
content: Quote from: zapta on January 31, 2016, 06:39:14 amHa ha. Suspicion is my ambition.Seriously, I do not see any posts here in this thread or forum on the Flat Earth topic that I'd consider likely shill-written. Unless OP is one, testing the water.But then, this forum does not engage in active, free debate on social issues or current events, so there's no point distracting it with nonsense. Since in a way eevblog is already acting as a distraction (for its target audience) from social change issues.Some other forums though, there's a bloody tidal wave of that crap. Seemingly in proportion to how much the forum is hated by the MSM/Elites.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 08:27:16 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 06:04:34 amThe quote:Quote:attributed to Hitler would be nice, can't find it in Mein Kampf or his speeches.Oh and when it came to 9/11 did you mean the 9/11 Truther movement is a psyop? That would make sense, it pulls attention away from the Saudi involvement and the US government's direct role in inventing and setting up Al Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS, and the like as justification for certain foreign wars and domestic policy in regards to civil liberties and freedoms in the US and other western countries.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 08:28:49 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 06:04:34 amOf course I do.QuoteExcept if the surface is flat and extends to infinity, there is no well defined limit to your observable space. You can see to infinity (well, at least as far as the stars in the night sky). You would not see a horizon, you would just the the surface gradually fading away into obscurity as the atmosphere blocked more and more light from reaching you.In fact, the existence of a sharply defined horizon on the sea is compelling evidence for the curvature of the earth. The surface must be curving away from you for a sharp horizon to happen.QuoteAs it happens, I watched a video blogger do just that only the other day. Take a look:https://youtu.be/B5maJBnv37E

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 09:55:52 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 31, 2016, 08:28:49 amI love that argument.Simple experiment to disprove. Get two 4 feet long bamboo sticks and twenty feet of string. Go to the seaside. Stick them in the sand vertically and tie the string between the two. Tension it. Sit 20 feet away in front of the string. Get someone to line the vertices of the intersection of the stick, horizon and string at each end while you're sitting down . Observe the curve of the sea.This acts as a trivial amplification mechanism so you can see the curve.(Was going to be a land surveyor once but decided I didn't like outdoors work in the winter)You can do this with a ruler as well but if you have wibbly hands it's wuite difficult to see. The distance gives you a damping effect.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 11:23:42 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 31, 2016, 08:27:16 amHmm... that one, no. It was in some freedom-related quotes I found. I collect those.http://everist.org/archives/links/__Freedom_quotes.txtWeb searching now, there are many hits, but so far I don't see any actually giving a source. Just stuff likehttp://www.quotes.net/quote/7430https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Adolf_Hitlerlists it as unsourced.It seems consistent with his views from other writings though.QuoteNo, I meant rubbish psyops attempt to distract attention from the 9/11 Truth movement. Both by diversion, and well-poisoning. That is, *some* of the people claiming to be Truthers are deliberately pushing outlandish theories, for the damage they do to the entire movement's standing. Not saying there are no genuinely crazy Truthers, but one has to be alert to the existence of deliberate deception.QuoteWell, I agree but let's not derail to that whole topic. Personally I prefer to sift through all the 'maybes' (that suggest but don't prove) for the few gems of absolute indisputable proof. There are several. Perhaps we could have a fun discussion f2f. But not here.Oh, I found that scrap of paper with the "8 inches" calc. Here:

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 31, 2016, 08:28:49 amAgreed. But firstly you just changed the rules - you didn't mention atmospheric haze before. I was assuming no haze, infinite vision, since what's the point of a mental model of an infinite plane if you can't see it? Secondly, the difference from sharp horizon 30 miles (or whatever it is) away from you, vs infinite horizon fading into haze, is going to be a very small amount of extra 'height' on the horizon. Really just the difference between a sharp line and the same line with a blur extending slightly past it.Oh and have you noticed the amount an ocean horizon shimmers up and down due to convecting air currents and thermal layers?QuoteNice video, and cool idea with the ancient waterline. But no he didn't. He did it for a much greater distance, which means a larger ratio of fall to distance. And, did you catch the part where his measurement didn't match the theory? It was quite badly off. My point was...? "It would be hard to get the right result."Also, not to denigrate his interesting effort, but if he was demonstrating some 'free energy' scam everyone would be pointing out the many failures of the demonstration. For instance he _says_ the transit was set to level... but doesn't show proof, didn't discus reading error ranges, etc. Oh, and another problem - there's no guarantee the ancient waterline is still level now. In fact it would be very surprising if it was. Local crust tilt and folding is what makes so many geological strata tilted. This is happening right now with that lake in the Yellowstone caldera - it's moving to one side as the local crust tilts.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 12:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 06:04:34 amWell that just saves me from having to do diagrams.. Thanks!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 03:29:25 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on January 31, 2016, 09:55:52 amI didn't say what you are quoting. Would you please correct the attribution?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:14:14 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2016, 11:23:42 amIf 9/11 was a false flag conspiracy it will eventually come out. Keeping big secretes, like the one you allege here is very difficult, somebody will eventually talk.On the other hand, sometimes things are as simple as they look.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 04:35:28 pm
content: That would require a helluva perception filter.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 09:34:10 pm
content: When people tell me the moon landings were faked I just shut that off mentally. It's that or some very extrovert behavior. Complete waste of emergy.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 09:46:23 pm
content: Quote from: Landrew2390 on January 28, 2016, 04:57:19 amThis here.Many many people are intelligent, but they end up making guesses based on assumptions because they dont really know alot on the subject.Now granted, things like Watergate turned out to be true. Not all conspiracy "theories"(that really is a misused word) are insane and its becoming more and more of a thing to label people as such, even if they have a view actually grounded in real science, unlike the flat earth people.I just wish the flat earth thing would go away because it flies in the face of such a vast number of things. On a scale comparing how out there this stuff is, flat earth stuff is likely almost as far as you can go.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 09:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on January 31, 2016, 09:46:23 pmSometime simple observation that shows that the foundation of their construct is wrong.Someone please make that Bob fellow climb to the Royal or Skysail of a tall ship on a calm day at sea.One cannot be up there and NOT see that we are on a massive billiard ball!

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 12:47:24 am
content: Quote from: gildasd on January 31, 2016, 09:57:49 pmIt's not going to go away. For a very different reason than why Scientology won't go away. Though both involve money.Also gildasd you still don't get it. Bob and others like him are not going to alter their flat Earth spiel no matter what practical proofs you show them. They don't care.Another good proof, is the moon being inverted in Sth hemisphere vs Nth hemisphere. But does this make the slightest dent in the wave of 'flat Earth' lying shillery? No.Ha ha, while growing up, that always pissed me off. Virtually ALL astronomy books are published in the Nth Hemisphere, so their pics of the Moon are invariably upside down. For someone from Australia.This reminds me - I have a couple of surveyor's levels. One was my dad's (an architect.) It never occurred to me to set one up on a beach and see whether the ocean horizon is perceptibly below level, and by what declination. Think I'll try it next time I have a day free to go the beach.It's a pity the coast near me doesn't have any long peninsulas, where I could get ocean horizon on both sides.But there are smallish mountains, so I can see what the declination difference is comparing viewpoints at sea level and 'mast top' height.The instruments are both optical, no electronics, and only have a bubble glass for leveling the platform. Not sure what the error limit is on that. But easy enough to work out practically.They are also both 'southern hemisphere' models, in which the optics auto-corrects for everything being upside down.The other problem will be finding an assistant to trot out to the horizon and hold up the height measuring bar thingy.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:33:01 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 01, 2016, 12:47:24 amThat's also why the clocks turn clockwise, mimicking the direction of sun dials in Europe.If clocks were invented in Australia, clockwise would be counter clockwise.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:59:38 am
content: There are various reasons why people are sucked into the "flat earth" myth.Some are:-(1) Sea travel is no longer part of the collective experience of society,so many have not seen ships & landmasses slowly appearing over the horizon as their ship approaches them.(2) Some kids seem to be able to drift through the Education system without getting any kind of grasp of History or Geography.(It has been that way forever:- witness people who look at Mercator's Projection maps & are quite sure Greenland is larger than Australia.Or the chap in England in the 1970s who quite seriously asked me"why I hadn't visited the USA,because Australia & America are so close together!")(3)Many such folk get their information off the "Net";where a minority of zealots can have an influence far out of proportion to their actual number.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:46:01 am
content: Checked the funny Youtube video interview and the flat-earth-guy stated that the distance to the sun is 3000 miles and the diameter of the sun is 32 miles. Now, when we are observing solar eclipse it means that the sun is behind the moon, which means that the moon has to be in less than 3000 miles from the flat earth, right?However, radioamateurs are using so called EME-mode for communication (Earth-Moon-Earth communication) in which the signal is being transmitted to the moon, it reaches the moon, bounces back and can be received here on earth again. It takes approximately 2.5 seconds for the signal to reach the moon and bounce back to the receiver. That can be verified by a radioamateur station pointing a dish antenna towards the moon, transmitting a short message and receiving its own signal after 2.5 seconds. As the radio waves travel at the speed of the light, and the speed of the light can be measured quite accurately using even simple devices, one can calculate the distance to the moon quite easily to be approximately 375 000 km (233 000 miles). Now, we can use a little bit of trigonometry to calculate the moon's diameter to be approximately 3500 km (2200 miles).Because the sun has to be behind the moon during the solar eclipse, the sun has to be at least 375 000 km (233 000 miles) from the earth and its diameter has to be at least 3500 km (2200 miles). As they have calculated the distance and the diameter of the sun incorrectly, there may also be some other serious problems in their "model".

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 07:58:46 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on February 01, 2016, 07:46:01 amYou are making assumptions about what lies between the Earth and the Moon. If above the atmosphere there were a clear material with a high refractive index it might take 2.5s for light or radio to make a round trip of less than 6000 miles. You vacuumists will fall for anything.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:13:12 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 01, 2016, 07:58:46 amWouldn't the high refractive index mean that the sky should behave like a mirror at certain angle and we should be able to see the earth in the sky, too?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:28:57 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on February 01, 2016, 08:13:12 amDon't we have a rather limited range of viewing angle available to us from the surface of our little sphere, I mean disc?

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:33:54 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 01, 2016, 08:28:57 amIt depends on the refractive index.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:39:07 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on February 01, 2016, 08:33:54 amWell, its not so much the refractive index as the step size of the index boundaries that governs reflection. What if the dense medium has a very progressive boundary, leading from a very low refractive index to a huge one?

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:46:42 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 01, 2016, 08:39:07 amThat would mean very fuzzy view to the  sky.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 08:49:40 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on February 01, 2016, 08:46:42 amIf we didn't have a fuzzy view of the night sky we wouldn't build things like the Hubble and James Webb telescopes, would we?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 04:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on January 31, 2016, 09:46:23 pmI don't like those conspiracy sites, and especially dislike them when it's about free energy stuff.What's the inverse of a "conspiracy" ? The official goverment version? I'm not a big fan of that eather, from the local village goverment all the way up to what EU dictates to be the thruth.But I see it's very white/black, no gray, no half-conspiracy allowed.No selection allowed too. The guy who says chemtrails are fake, but the story of 9/11 "could be" somewhat fabricated, looses everybody on both sides.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 09:11:12 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 01, 2016, 12:47:24 amOh the irony. The very next day (today) I was at a beach. But hadn't planned it, so no theodolite. I'd gone to POW hospital Kensington to get some old eye test printouts from 2009, needed for a current medical issue. They'd lost the data, so I salvaged the afternoon (beautiful weather!) by going down to Bunnerong Peninsula. Sat on the rocks at Bare Island fort, about 1m above sea level and looking out to the ocean horizon, kicking myself. No swimming costume, no theodolite, f*ck. So I walked round to the nudist beach and had a swim. No flat Earthers there, I think.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 09:26:36 am
content: There are definitely some conspiracy theories that turned out to be 100% true!So, we can not dismiss every single conspiracy to be stupid.But the flat earth society is very strange / stupid indeed.Most likely based on very bad education.But then it does not help, when NASA admits that the "Blue Marble" is not a picture from out of space but a composite of pictures and enhanced and clouds are photoshopped in to it.Even Al Gore was much surprised, when he learned about this.This is just oil on the fire of the flat earthers who don't think for themselves.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:48:11 am
content: The common picture of the earth may be a mock up, but there is a great book published in 1999 of high quality digital scans of the "dupes" , the first duplicate copies of the original 5cm format films taken on the Apollo program. These are unaltered to any extent and includes Mike Collins first shot of the "earth rising".I would highly recommend it.http://www.michaellight.net/fm-intro/The other interesting moon books are the Haynes Services your Apollo Moon Capsule book and also First Man re Armstrong.re flat earthers What is on the other side? or is it "turtles all the way down". HiHi.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:55:50 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 01, 2016, 08:49:40 amWe would have some other more profound problems with the planetary motions if there is something more dense in the space than vacuum.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:59:00 am
content: I thought we did have a problem re the mass of space hence 'dark energy/matter'.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 11:24:09 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2016, 10:59:00 amWhen you get up to the scale of galaxies the speed of the outer stars is too fast to be explained by the matter we can see. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the underlying physics (yet) so dark matter seems to be a concrete answer with only one problem, we have no idea what the nature of the material that's exerting the extra gravity. On the scale of the solar system though there's no such problem.Dark energy though is much more likely to be a problem with the physics in regards to universal expansion and the very nature of spacetime itself. What currently seems the obvious solution that there must be something powering the apparent accelerating expansion could end up looking silly if the promising hypothesis that the energy density of the universe balances out at zero ends up with evidence to directly support it. Why would you need something to power the creation of more space if space takes zero energy to create?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 11:26:16 am
content: I have a family member too that is totally fallen for the flat earth stupid stuff.The interesting part is that sometimes I really have to think hard of what to answer.One thing he brought up was the fact that for hundreds of years we have only seen one side of the moon, that is facing the earth.So, obviously this must be a conspiracy, as a matter ofhisfact, the moon is not even there.Well, I tried to explain to him the "Tidal Locking" between earth and moon but he did not want to believe that this is possible at such a distance.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_lockingWhat can you do, at that time you just can give up and leave these people alone.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 11:28:26 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2016, 10:59:00 amI am afraid that we are not going to find that dark matter in the space between the earth and the moon so that the gradually changing refraction index will be so high near the moon that it will take the radio signal to travel 3000 miles in 2.5 seconds back and forth.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 11:18:21 am
content: @kalvin, I am quite close to confirming that EME figure for myself, I have a 350W circularly polarised (helps with Faraday rotation) at 1296MHz feeding a 4m dish, a LNA (a G4DDK unit) 36dB gain, 0.35dB noise factor pre-amp. But for some problems with sequencing, amps, relays and bias circuits………………I also have some doubts about the focal point of the dish so will have to go through the exercise of measuring sun RF noise again to confirm.An interesting but I don't think fully understood is the 'long delayed RF echo' typically greater than 2.7sec. I have heard some recordings of them and they sound bizarrely good.Photos of splitter and combiner units (inside PA), need to use heliax for combined output and RF feed horn with LNA and heliax transmit/ receive lines.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 01:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2016, 10:48:11 amI assume there are a number of giant (world) elephants standing on the back of anastrochelonianswimming through space. You didn't think thatDiscworldstuff was fiction, did you?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2016, 03:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 03, 2016, 11:18:21 amVery impressive setup you have there.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2016, 12:15:00 pm
content: @HighVoltage, thanks, I have stood on the shoulders of giants before me who have done the hard yards, W6PQL for the PAs , G4DDK for the pre-amp, VE4MA for the feed horn, VK5EME for the sequencer, DownEastMicro for a Pre-power amp. All these guys have shard their work on the net, esp VK3UM for some great software and some good comments at the AUS VHF Ham conference.Lots of reading and I have learnt a lot on the way, built a linear 28V 30A power supply - first time in my life on 1st switch on I was standing on the other side of the room HiHi (went ok except for a single tantalum that was in backwards - boy they can fly with a few amps 'up em')@mfmischler, thanks for the turtle reference, I couldn't recall where I had heard it.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2016, 09:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 26, 2016, 09:03:06 amBut that's why he goes barefoot in the Lab - he has to hang on with his toes or he'd fall on to the ceiling; notice how his hair sticks up. The Aussies have got so good at this that it just looks to us as if they're the same way up as us.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 10:41:42 am
content: Necro post FTW!Alas I'm a few days late to bring this to the attention of any Flat-Earthers here but for those unaware you've just missed The Flat Earth International Conference - more details ...http://fe2017.com/Or look on the App/Play Store for "Flat Earth Conference"Some brief interviews with attendees:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/41973119/why-do-people-still-think-the-earth-is-flatSome of the talks scheduled look as if they'd have been highly enjoyable

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 02:00:23 pm
content: Oh, my poor, poor forefathers...WhileEratosthenesmeasured the Earth's circumference with remarkable accuracy (<2% error!) by using a vertical wooden stick(!) during the second century BCE,Aristarchos of Samoswas advocating the Heliocentrical model of our world since the third century BCE, whileAnaxagorasconsider the stars to be "fiery stones" since the fifth century BCE.Eratosthenes was also the first to calculate the tilt of the Earth’s axis (again with remarkable accuracy). while he also calculated accurately the distance from the earth to the sun and invented the leap day. Additionally, he created the first map of the world incorporating parallels and meridians, based on the available geographical knowledge of the era.And the subsequentReligions of the Desert(that were imposed by fire and sword and drove humanity into the thousand years long wretchedness of the Dark Ages) dogmatically decreed (with the penalty of torture and death for the dissentient ones) that the Earth wasflat* (=with 'ends') andsquare** (=with 'four corners').According to their own scripts:(*)Deuteronomy 28: 64(original script):Quote(**)Apocalypse of John 7: 1(original script):Quote-George

author: kasone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 05:07:38 pm
content: Here is a link to an article about the Bible verses that you have used in your post.https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/does-bible-teach-earth-flat/

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 09:25:12 pm
content: Flat earth DBA is old news. At CERN eggheads have discovered that universe should not exist at all, even flat:Quotehttp://www.newsweek.com/universe-should-not-exist-cern-scientists-discover-692500So when flat earthers have gone for mere 1D reduction these are trying to get rid of all Ds!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 09:39:54 pm
content: Sure the Earth can have corners. If you imagine a square at the equator perpendicular to the axis, it would intersect the sphere at four points.My logic is undeniable.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2017, 10:03:52 pm
content: The southwest hasFour Corners!So John of The Apocalypse discovered Utah a thousand years before Columbus... another conspiracytheydon't want you to know about!

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 10:03:45 am
content: In case you speak German:Some more highlights in the talk: Hillary Clinton and Miley Cyrus are reptilians. They really belief in this crap and think it is all a conspiracy. Some background information: the caller is jobless and lacks basic physical understanding and reasoning.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 11:05:17 am
content: If only more of these people would put themselves up for Darwin awards - like this guy, planning to strap himself into a home made rocket and launch himself into the air so he can see the shape of the Earth for himself.http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/93f087a5-33e5-49a5-b36b-0605c3fd2820I wish him all the success he deserves.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 11:16:41 am
content: He's spent £15,000 on a rocket to achieve either "1,800 feet" or "around one mile" depending on two different lines in the article (to the writer+editor)For the same money he could have gone first class at 40,000 feet for several hours

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 11:20:35 am
content: Is this a spin-off of the thread on facebook I've seen, where someone from flat-earth believers said that they have lots of followers all around the globe (exact words)?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2017, 11:37:49 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on November 28, 2017, 11:05:17 amI'll get out my special popcorn.