EVSE Economics - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2019, 04:31:08 am
content: As the world inches towards EVs (or not) I wonder how the lack of economic viability in the operation of public charging stations will play out. I've always noted that there is simply no way anyone can put in a public EVSE with the expectation of a profit. That could be a problem.Some EVSEs are in place by government grants or as a public facility. There are 3 of them at a place we frequently visit, and they are always occupied by 'local freeloaders'--people who live nearby (I'm assuming, but...) and could charge at home, but like the free juice. Most recently, they were occupied at 7AM, an hour before the place opens, by two Volts and a Leaf. I noticed the Leaf wasn't plugged in, so I parked next to it and started up the EVSE, then I noticed that there was a coffee cup sleeve around the cord with a faded "Out of Order" note. There was also a piece of paper taped to it stating that funds had dried up and replacements or repairs would not be forthcoming. It seemed to be working, but I decided to unplug it.There is another EVSE in a park that we frequent, and it used to be free--just plug in. It was always in use, mostly by one particular Volt. The city decided they no longer wanted to pay for it, so they contracted with one of those companies that makes you install an app and subscribe--and now it sits unused.Other places, especially Chargepoint locations, seem to work well, but they charge $1.25/hr for up to 7.2kW. So at $0.20/kWh, I'm paying less than I would at home in the daytime. Granted, they may get a special EVSE rate, but how much money can they get and how will it pay for the $5K capital cost (minimum) and maintenence, administration, etc? It won't, and this unit being owned by a city, will be taxpayer funded to a degree. Or it will be neglected and die.Businesses may install EVSE stations, but they are hoping to lure you in to buy something. Kohls, Whole Foods and others do this. I (very) occasionally have used them, but it hasn't netted them a sale. But more to the point, they can't make a profit selling me juice for my EV and they know it.Even Tesla's Supercharger network is dependent on the ability of the company to fund it, whether through profits from sales or the inflow of investment capital. I don't think it can stand alone on its own even if it charged very high rates. I would prefer very high rates because that means I could always get a charge when I need one, but low utilization isn't helpful either.So, is there a path forward for non-home EVSEs and what is it? Or will they all burn up and die.

author: john61ct
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2019, 05:49:15 am
content: Once critical mass is reached, those subsidising won't need to anymore, and the per-kWh rates will be high enough to include profits.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 11:02:13 am
content: I think Polar, in the UK, have it right.Approximately £8 a month subscription fee to get access to the whole network, then 12p/kWh for the slow 7kW chargers and 20p/kWh for the fast chargers (up to 150kW right now.)The £7.85 a month (x 40,000 users as of Jun 2018) = £3.7m/year, is sufficient to maintain the network (the vast majority of which require little maintenance for 10+ years) and the electricity is sold at cost or provided free by the site the chargers are installed on.Many fast charging stations (50kW rating) are charging 36p/kWh or more. This is not sustainable at all, because it puts the per mile cost of many EVs at around that of a diesel car in the UK. How are we going to convince people to go EV when the capital cost is higher, but the savings are low. So that cost needs to be more reasonable. 20p/kWh is okay for fast charging, because it is infrequent but the cost benefit is still there over a regular car. And for super-fast-charging (350kW, for instance), 40p/kWh is justifiable for the convenience factor, just like petrol on the motorway service stations is more expensive. But regular charging still needs to be cost effective though.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 27, 2019, 11:02:13 amAny solution that requires an app or subscription is a big part of the problem. For rapids at least, it is essential that anyone can turn up to any charger, plug in and use a contactless credit/debit card. By all means offer incentives for other methods, but the system at the moment is an utter mess of different apps, cards etc. and is a major obstacle in the way of wider EV adoption.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 27, 2019, 11:02:13 amI really don't think this is an issue for most people - where possible people will be charging at home or work, as they can be doing other useful things while the car charges.I doubt any significant number of people use rapids for enough of their charging for the cost to be a big deal. they are far more concerned about reliability, availabilty and charge time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 01, 2019, 12:30:42 pmI fully agree! You see this often with EV owners who want drive abroad or even a different part of a country. They have to use a different EV charging card. Technically there is no reason not to support contactless debit/credit cards.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 01, 2019, 12:46:21 pmThere is certainly no excuse on rapids as the cost of a contactless reader is trivial compared to the cost of the charger and installation - in the UK we are suffering from issues arising from legacy systems. For desination chargers ( 11/7kW) it is proportionaly more of an expense, especially if there isn't already any comms connection available.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 01:05:23 pm
content: The problems will be even bigger for residential areas where people can't charge at home (in the Netherlands that is 70% of the people according to a company deploying a fast charger network). It will be either using a fast charger or using a public charger somewhere in the street. Either way you'll be paying lots for the infrastructure. However a data connection doesn't need to be expensive. My electricity meter has a GPRS (or something similar; forgot what exactly) communication module in it.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2019, 11:38:13 pm
content: yep. EV chargers are far far behind with the paiement (and IT security)Fortunately, there's Tesla, and even if you have another brand, they set the standard to achieve (seamless plug in, no hassle with paiment), so hopefully soon this shall be supported everywhere.