Are ESD mats bad for health ?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:28:52 pm
content: I recently purchased an ESD mat from amazon.ca :The mat has a certain smell. I have the mat on my desktop in my bedroom, is it toxic ? Any health hazards ?Many Thanksreferral ID removed,

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:49:03 pm
content: why dont you attach some of the smell to the message so we can use our crystal balls to analyse it.!

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 11:54:18 pm
content: Just don't eat it, then you're OK.Soldering in your bedroom? That's probably much worse.

author: twospoons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 12:24:21 am
content: Ignoring the facetious replies ..Its made of nitrile butadiene rubber - NBR - (from the description in the link you posted) , and will usually contain some excess of acrylonitrile for plasticity. The exposure limit for acrylonitrile is 2ppm (8 hours), and its odor is detectable at 1.6ppm, so if you can smell it you should probably not be spending long periods of time around it. Acrylonitrile is described as smelling like onions or garlic. If the smell is more like gasoline then it could be the butadiene component - which has similar detection and exposure limits.I'd leave it outside until most of the smell is gone, or at least put it away when you are not using it. If you can only smell it with your face right up against it you should be OK.BTW this only took about 10 minutes of web searching to find out what NBR is -> what its made of -> what the smell is likely to be -> odor detection limits -> recommended exposure limits.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:51:16 am
content: Everything is bad for your health . You know that new car smell that many people love has anywhere between 100 to 1000 times the acceptable health limits of 2 well known carcinogens . Benzene and Formaldehyde . Most consumer plastics contain Benzene and Formaldehyde and release it for years . So the question is do you want to lock yourself in a bubble or just except that there are hazards all around you and not worry about it. Generations lived with far more toxic and hazardous environments then now and look how many survived .

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 04:20:43 am
content: Jwillis: please do not ridicule health concerns. While the inquiry had a funny form and I’m not surprised by the response fromm3vuv, the question is reasonable. Even if more experienced people may determine a thing is not dangerous, most beginners have no way to tell that. Better to ask than test it on oneself.And if you do know it’s safe, use arguments that don’t make you yourself look absurd.twospoonsprovided a good answer. Claiming, that it’s fine because something else exceeds limits or because in the past people were doing risky things, is a poor way of reasoning.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:16:54 am
content: Unless you are using them commercially, 8 hours a day and 5 days a week, and all year long, I wouldn't be concerned. In fact, I have two Amazon purchased ESD matts myself. If you want to be absolutely safe or have a reason to be concerned to a certain level, I'm going to suggest buying one from DigiKey or other professional suppliers. Many Amazon items are made by unspecified manufacturers and thus not with specific materials. What you buy today maybe different from what get a month from now.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 12:25:41 pm
content: I can't stand that new car smell. Yes there are other things which are toxic, such as wood smoke, which also contains toxic chemicals such as carbon monoxide, benzine, acrolein and butadiene.I think the biggest problem is the original poster has the ESD mat in their bedroom, which presumably isn't the most well ventilated of areas. It's probably a good idea to store it, when not in use, preferably in a well-ventilated area, away from anyone, if possible.

author: l3gi0n
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 02:14:51 pm
content: I just moved my soldering station to the basement.I have had this mat on my desk in my bedroom where I sleep for a few weeks...hopefully I will be ok ? Will there be any health problems ?Many Thanks

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 02:33:43 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on November 16, 2021, 02:14:51 pmNo one can know, without knowing the concentration of the nasty chemicals you've been exposed to.You'll probably be fine. I believe these sorts of nasty chemicals just increase the chances of you developing certain diseases, rather than it being a certainty.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 02:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on November 16, 2021, 02:14:51 pmSeems like you have received a bit of ridicule for your question(s) asking complete strangers who are EEs or EE hobbyists or enthusiasts and the like, whether you will be ok or experience health problems.I can tell you that you absolutely will NOT be ok and that you definitely WILL have health problems - I just can't give you any idea when or why or whether your fate will, in any way, be related to the stank mat that you (used to) sleep with.The mat smells. Others in the 1-star comments mentioned that the mat smells. What you are smelling are molecules from the mat. If you are worried that they can be harmful, throw the mat out and get one that does not smell.Failing that, you can write people whose job it is to talk to you about things like product safety (e.g.,https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/air-quality/indoor-air-contaminants/volatile-organic-compounds.html).Lest you or others think that I am also ridiculing you, I am not [although I was going to expound on my own off-gassing and the effects it was claimed to have on others, e.g., nausea, eye burning and so on], it's just that you are not showing the respect for complexity that the issue demands. In other words...it is not an unreasonable question, but you should not be looking for simple answers to make yourself feel better.It has been noted that it was not a good idea to keep the stank mat in your bedroom where you would be breathing the stank for long periods of time - I think that is good advice. I will go further and advise that, if you are still worried, get rid of the mat and get one that does not stink, has been manufactured with a bunch of safety regulations in mind and does not cause you to worry.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on November 16, 2021, 02:49:37 pmYes of course, we're all going to fall ill at some stage. Most of the time you'll recover, but eventually you won't and will end up dead. That's just a basic undeniable fact. The question is whether that smelly mat will contribute to illness and premature death, which no one here can tell you.I dispute that getting a non-smelly mat will help. There are plenty of volatile compounds which don't smell much, yet are dangerous.Even if the concentrations of gasses released by the mat are too low to cause any real health problems, the anxiety caused can have a real impact on one's mental health.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 16, 2021, 03:05:26 pmwhich no one here can tell youYes and that is my point. Respect complexity.I dispute that getting a non-smelly mat will help. There are plenty of volatile compounds which don't smell much, yet are dangerous.Unnecessary to dispute that, I do not disagree. Which mat should he buy? No answer?, can't say?, too complicated? - ok. You are saying that a non-stinky mat can be toxic, but what you are not saying is - buy this mat, it is not toxic. Please do, if you know - while I have no stinky mat on my bench, I may buy a mat of some kind at some point and would welcome the suggestion - like a nice silicone mat - something similar to "food safe".My suggestion is aimed much more closely at the "worry" and, of course, asking questions to people who can't possibly say with certainty, but may help you reduce the worry. You want to reduce the worry about your stank mat - no problem - throw it out, but make sure you don't get one that doesn't stink and is quite toxic and will cause you harm as well as worry - better?...and btw could you help with the toxicity of my flatulence? I mean, I'm not worried about it at all, but it seems to cause some others a great deal of "worry" and I would hate to think that I will be thrown out.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on November 16, 2021, 03:16:50 pmWell you could stick a carbon filter up your bum, or better, just ask those around you to wear masks with a carbon filter, if it bother them that much, but it might offend those who vote for the political party, which doesn't like masks, whichever one that is: I forget.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:55:53 pm
content: It should be well known, that we're exposed to wast collection of chemicals in everyday's life.every single chemical by itself might pose minimal to no health hazard at all, but more chemicals together lead to a kind of 'cocktail effect' with possible health hazards which are often still unknown.So it's absolutely legit wondering and worrying about possible impacts on health and environment then getting in touch with such strong smelly goods.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 03:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 16, 2021, 03:33:23 pmYou mean something like thesehttps://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Butt-Reusable-Neutralizers-Activated/dp/B00Q3NOEPKI expect to see some in my xmas stocking along withhttps://www.amazon.com/Beano-Dietary-Supplement-Gas-Causing-Tablets/dp/B01F9DT5GM/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=beeno&qid=1637078069&sr=8-5&th=1and, of course,https://www.poopourri.com/collections/toilet-spraysFurther, to respect the complexity, I maintain that mine are like snowflakes - no two are alike.But, to respect the thread topic, this mat looks pretty good..to mehttps://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Resistant-Electronic-Insulation-Station15-9/dp/B075M7PQZX?th=1edit: I like seeing this in the advert【Non-toxic Odorless and Non-Slip】Silicone material for soldering mat is 100% food grade which meet USA FDA standard, non-toxic and odorless.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 05:26:12 pm
content: We are surrounded by carpet, paint, wall board, various types of plastic and composite materials, air containing vehicle exhaust, etc, etc, etc. Relative to that, I'd think effects from ESD mats are negligible. Only way to be sure is to purchase one, send it to lab, and have it analyzed. Yes, it'll be quite costly, but anything else is just a conjecture. Again, Amazon sellers will often switch products. Each purchase will have to go through the process.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on November 16, 2021, 02:14:51 pmOne health problem seems imminent: anxiety disorder.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:10:32 pm
content: What else is in your basement? Gas based water heater and furness? I'd be more concerned about carbon monoxide. Please get yourself a CO monitor.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:12:05 pm
content: Drafty basements can be good: many US houses suffer from poor ventilation due to highly efficient insulation and construction.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: m3vuv on November 15, 2021, 11:49:03 pmWhat he really wants you to do is buy one from amazon using his referral link so that you can find out for yourself

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 08:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 16, 2021, 08:14:19 pmSure! Best advertising ever is stating that your product smells badly and could be toxic. If I get banned again in result - I will never post here again.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 09:57:46 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 16, 2021, 08:14:19 pmI don't think he was spamming. He posts links in his other posts, but they're to completely different products, from other sellers. I think you were a little quick to ban, in this case.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 10:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on November 16, 2021, 08:26:08 pmMaybe Amazon started again the pay per click program, the idea of professional master-race trolls is not to make blatant advertisement ("Hello, I've used this hair conditioner and it made my dirk bigger..." but "concern trolling" also gets clicks, you go in a specialty forum, say for example on motorcycles and say:"Hey I bought this popular helmet, and it seems too large, also paint peels off easily..."Concerned people click the link to see what helmet is, to avoid or to verify if they have a similar one, and ka-tching, the click$$$ keep rolling...Same issue here "I've bought this JBC clone [affiliate link], do you think is worth the money ?!?!"Cheers,DC1MC

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 10:19:24 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 16, 2021, 08:14:19 pm... and he spams for Belgian ebay sellers too does he?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/whats-the-difference-between-these-desoldering-gun-models/msg3734776/#msg3734776It looks like the self professed newbie just buys stuff from Amazon, ebay (via Canada), Ali or wherever.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 11:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: DC1MC on November 16, 2021, 10:08:35 pmSo it meansonemoderator can ban literally anybody who is asking question like "it smalls bad - is it really s**t"?

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 12:15:43 am
content: Quote from: ogden on November 16, 2021, 11:42:41 pmWhy are you disingenuous, is there any reason for that ?I'm neither a moderator or site owner, but IMHO a moderator can ban anybody, for whatever reason if their conduit is considered harmful to the site and/or community and only has to answer to the site owner.Your concern trolling is getting boring so I'm done with this thread.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 06:57:21 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 16, 2021, 09:57:46 pmtwo of the links at least included the same ref id, the address is made up of amazon, the product, then a ref id.So the question is, are all of the sellers of ESD mats in the world breaking the laws of several nations by selling toxic goods......

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 07:06:24 am
content: OK, he's back. Let's assume the ref id's are just because he bought it and not because it's the referral program.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 08:07:03 am
content: At one of my previous employers, there were some ESD mats made of fibrous material, presumably a mixture of wood pulp and charcoal. They didn't smell much, but that doesn't mean they didn't release carbon power into the air, which might cause cancer.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 09:28:39 am
content: Quote from: l3gi0n on November 16, 2021, 02:14:51 pmWill there be any health problems from sleeping next to it for a few weeks? In the grand scheme of thing, probably not - I suspect that you would have suffered some respiratory symptoms first if so.All esd mats have some degree of odour when first unsealed, even if it's just a mild Vinyl type smell. I've heard that some of the Chinese ones can smell really bad though.I don't know what the weather is like in your part of Canada at the moment, but you could try putting it outside during the day for a while (face up and face down). A combination of sunlight and breeze is probably the quickest way of getting rid of the smell.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 12:19:42 pm
content: if it is click-bait they didn't earn on me; already got enough mysteriously smelling objects in hands to know that this is a real issue

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 01:03:51 pm
content: Rules of thumb:Cheap = very smellyExpensive = less smellBlue = less smellBlack = very smellypick your poison

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 04:51:59 pm
content: that's seriously oversimplified imho

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2021, 10:38:23 pm
content: that is what a rule of thumb is for and mine is based on two purchases. my last employer was a tight arse, so I bought the all black £25 mats, they smelled like car tyres for weeks and stunk the room out. At my new employer I got mats that cost £50 and a blue on the outside, they had a slight smell when opened that vanished in hours.

author: nez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 09:50:48 am
content: A few years ago I searched specifically for a low-VOC mat (because I loathe those kind of smells and it was going in my bedroom at the time).The particular one I got on Digikey was from the "Dualmat" series by ACL Staticide:https://www.aclstaticide.com/categories/anti-static-matsI had absolutely no issues with smells, and its datasheet claims no off-gassing.It was a bit pricey though -- I'm glad the smallest size (24"x36") pre-cut version was large enough for my desk space, because it was the only size that fit my budget. Was around $66 usd at the time, $70 now for that size.I'm sure there are a variety of quality manufacturers that make low-VOC mats, but I doubt you'll find them on Amazon!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 05:39:30 pm
content: I don't know if it's a case of the quality of the material or if the manufacturer airs the matt/material before packing. Even if they air the material this will be expensive as it will have to be kept in ventilated storage for anywhere between days or weeks as unrolled sheets.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 06:40:20 pm
content: I hesitate to say that "Chinese goods stink", but we have had a couple of recent orders from legitimate vendors with this problem on Chinese-made goods.1. My wife ordered a medium-sized wheeled suitcase before a trip to Europe (before the plague). On its first outing, the security officers at Zurich airport stopped her politely after their chemical sniffing equipment responded to the chemical odor from the new case. (This was not an over-reaction, since even with my bad sinuses I could smell it, as well.)2. From another vendor, she ordered a cotton flannel-print comforter cover (bedding). Out of the box, it didn't smell too bad, but with it pulled up to our noses it was obvious. We aired it out, washed it several times, etc., but the smell still lingers (presumably from the print inks). A previous similar flannel cover (same vendor) from Portugal had no odor whatsoever.I don't know if the excess smell is directly the fault of the manufacturing process or the long trans-Pacific shipment in a container.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 10:34:01 pm
content: People who buy cheapest s**t they cand find, then complain that s**t stinks - amazes me all the time.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 11:05:27 pm
content: Neither were cheap. Chinese manufacturers supply an incredible fraction of goods for sale at retail in the US.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 11:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 19, 2021, 11:05:27 pmRight. Many cusomers buy overpriced s**t, then realize that s**t stinks, then buy another s**t to realize that it stinks as well. Western people most likely don't get me, but easrtern europeans who can't find quality products in the shop because market is dominated by customers looking for absolute cheap, most likely will see what I mean.