Electric shaver mystery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:46:01 am
content: I'm presently traveling around the country to attend job interviews.Yesterday morning I had an interview in Wolverhampton and when I went to shave in the hotel I was staying in, I found that my electric shaver didn't work in either of the two shaver sockets (110V or 220V) even though it should work in either.I asked at the reception desk and they gave me the key to a different room but I found the same thing.Eventually they lent me a plug with a shaver adapter and that didn't work either.I tried disconnecting and reconnecting the cable (several times) and no joy so I concluded my shaver was broken and went to the interview unshaven (fortunately it was for a university post so they probably didn't care).BUT when I returned home I plugged my shaver in at home and it worked straight away!.Any ideas as to this mystery? (I've had the shaver for years and used it in lots of different places).The only thing I can think of is that the pins are insulated for some of their length (see photo) and perhaps the sockets in Wolverhampton are all different from the rest of the universe so the pins weren't making proper contact!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 01:14:56 pm
content: As simple as two faulty shaver sockets? The shavers sockets use a thermal cut out and an isolation transformer. Perhaps one of the two has failed.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 01:18:24 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on January 16, 2015, 01:14:56 pmIt seems unlikely in two separate rooms. Plus the adapter that they lent me also didn't work.But perhaps my shaver has some sort of cut off which resets itself - so first faulty socket set off the shaver and then 12 hours later it had reset itself?Maybe I'm not very good at plugging things in but I've not had this trouble anywhere else - most mysterious.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 01:26:03 pm
content: I was told a long long time ago, that there is something special about the connectors next to the bathroom mirrors, due to the fact that there is increased chance of electrocution. I don't think they use isolation transformer, or at least not where I live.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 02:30:52 pm
content: It is likely that there is something wrong with the shaver or shaver cable. Maybe some intermittent problem is showing up.Intermittent problems are the most fun with any equipment.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 02:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on January 16, 2015, 02:30:52 pmYou may be right, but I have used it every day for a few years with no problems and I've used it twice since getting back.I'll continue to test it every morning - I've now received a job offer so perhaps I won't be so reliant on my shaver until I start the new job!I suspect that the shaver will keep working and I won't get to the bottom of why it failed.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 03:07:57 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on January 16, 2015, 01:18:24 pmSomeone before you tried to use 1KWt hair drier. Firstly he or she plugged it into a socket in a bathroom. The result was a burnt fuse in the isolation transformer unit (in the UK bathroom sockets must have a fuse and isolation transformer).Then that person went to reception and said that "it didn't work", they gave him keys from another room to try. So, he burnt a fuse in that batroom too.Then they gave him an adaptor with 1A fuse to try in the normal wall socket. No surprise, he burnt the fuse in the adaptor as well..... And then came you with your shaver

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 04:16:52 pm
content: Did you have a pocket DMM at the time? That could have answered presence of AC mains definitely.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 05:00:47 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on January 16, 2015, 03:07:57 pmI like your explanation - I will take it as the correct one until proved otherwise.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 05:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on January 16, 2015, 04:16:52 pmI do have a pocket DMM but unfortunately I didn't think to take it for my interview (which was to do with lecturing computer science). I think perhaps in future I will.It would also have been sensible to take my own adapter plug - I keep meaning to do this ever since staying in a Hotel/B&B in Aberystwyth and finding it had no shaver sockets at all.Unfortunately there is some physical law which states that when ever I have an important trip I'll always leave something behind and the something is often my shaver adapter plug.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 05:09:25 pm
content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets_-_British_and_related_types#BS_4573_.28UK_shaver.29

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 05:11:42 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on January 16, 2015, 03:07:57 pmExcellent bit of deduction there!The cable looks to suffering RSI at the strain relief, wires could be fractured.Aren't some overseas type of plugs very similar but use a different dia pin,and stretched the contacts?Dimity's is still the best in that Colombo epiphany way!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 05:59:29 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on January 16, 2015, 05:04:12 pmThis. Whenever I have owned an electric shaver in the UK I have had a two pin shaver adapter for use at home (never had a dedicated shaver socket in any bathrooms). When travelling it was automatic to pack the shaver cord and shaver adapter as a unit.

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 10:07:47 pm
content: Why aren't this shavers fitted with a normal british plug?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 10:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 10:07:47 pmFor safety I guess so that you only plug your low current shaver into a low current shaver socket which has a 1amp(?) fuse. They are also smaller and neater. Most newish houses have shaver sockets fitted in the bathrooms. Generally they are double sockets with 110V on one and 220V on the other. I think the same sockets are used in Europe so it makes traveling easier and there are very small and neat adapters available for the US. (See Oxdeadbeef's Wikipedia link above.)In the UK there is also a similar system for light sockets which is smaller than the standard plug (3 pin but round pin I think). My parents used to have it in their old house but not many people use it I think because it is more useful to have more standard sockets and just have 3amp fuses in standard plugs for lights.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 10:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 10:07:47 pmFor complicated historical reasons.Britain used to have two pin ungrounded plugs and sockets from the days when protective earthing was not considered important. Electric shavers used these plugs because they were smaller and more convenient. Somehow, when everything else moved to standard three pin plugs and sockets shavers kept the two pin plug (who wants a small electric shaver with a big plug attached?) and the two pin plug became known as a "shaver plug".A complicating factor is that British bathrooms are not allowed to have electric sockets in them because of the perceived electric shock hazard. So a shaver with a three pin plug could not be used in a bathroom. However, bathrooms are allowed to have special shaver sockets with an isolation transformer and a two pin socket for shaver plugs.So for both of these reasons, Britain has an odd situation. The three pin 13 amp plug and socket is universal except for shavers, which have a unique and special two pin plug that won't fit into a normal 13 amp socket.

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:09:41 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 16, 2015, 10:56:34 pmThat is funny. In Germany we have normal sockets; that is legal as long as the socket socket is not installed to close to the bathtub. That is an example; my bathroom.How do you use hair dryers?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:28:10 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 11:09:41 pmHair dryers generally must be used in the bedroom, not the bathroom.You can in theory have a socket in a bathroom as long is it is several meters away from any bathtub or washbasin. But only palaces have bathrooms big enough for this to be possible.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 11:09:41 pmIn the bath whilst listening to White RabbitI am joking of course!!

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:41:22 pm
content: roughly said, any socket in the bathroom has to be placed at least 60cm away from shower cabins or bathtubs here. RCDs have to be installed for many years (20 years?), but if the wiring is old, there will be no RCD; no retrofitting required. There are some accidents due to people using their hairdryer in the bathtub.. but not many. Funny thing, how different countries see risks differently.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:45:09 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 11:09:41 pmI don't think that' true.Firstly, outlets must be mounted splahproof. Also since 2002 or so, you need a residual current circuit breaker in wet rooms.Besides, shaver plugs also still exist:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RasiersteckdoseThey were common next to the sink until the early 70s or so.

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 11:59:22 pm
content: well the only place I've ever seen shaver plugs in Germany were in trains. Maybe they were installed in hotels?The rukes defining the installation of sockets in bathrooms define only a security zone around bathtubs and shower cabins; basins (and kitchen sinks) are not mentioned.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 12:06:26 am
content: More amusingly, you don't even find light switches in bathrooms (or lavatories). Either the wall switch is mounted outside the door, or there is a pull cord switch mounted on the ceiling.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2015, 02:02:26 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on January 16, 2015, 11:59:22 pmThe bathroom outlets in my parents' house (built ~1972) were shaver plug style until my dad chose to replace them.Quote from: MiataMucTrue, but I think this was different until the late 60s. Also the outlets you've shown are most probably not allowed in Germany as they are not splash proof. Let's say it's at least a borderline case. Usually outlets are mounted inside a mirror cabinet or with a certain distance to the sink. Also Switzerland seems to have stricter rules there where at least in hospitals and hotels shaver plugs are mandatory and need a "collar" since 2010 or so.As a side note: most German bathrooms I used also had the main light switch at the outside and only a smaller light mounted in the mirror cabinet was switchable without leaving the room.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2015, 02:09:10 pm
content: As well remember that depending on the age of the house it might comply to various standards, and as these ( here at least in SA) are generally only inspected and updated/repaired when the property is sold, it might have non compliant socket outlets for decades.Thus you could have a house with an outlet in the bathroom, which was allowede early last century, but which now is no longer allowed, or it might be unearthed and not protected with a residual current device and only with a wire fuse, depending on just how old the place is. Some countries mandated an upgrade for all properties to a basic spec, but some did not, and some allowed old installations to be "grandfathered" in provided it meets the spec as built.