Would you really sell on ebay ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pm
content: Ebay is charging 105 euro if i sell something for 1000.+ paypal also want to charge 46,50according to this site :https://finalfeecalc.comWould you really sell something and give them for then 150 euro for the service ?crazy

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:37:52 pm
content: Have you tried their platform for small advertisements?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmAnother option is to not sell at all. Good luck finding buyers by other means, especially internationally. You may sell something by other means of course, but you won't go far with that. Especially if you want to sell a lot of specialized items.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 03:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 26, 2020, 03:37:52 pmNo, i am looking to it now :https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/listing-tips/selling-classified-ads?id=4167I have the feeling they still getting my money, with charging for the buisness-tool or something.Thanks, i look into it.Have you used that ?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:00:56 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:55:21 pmOver here it's free as long as you don't post more then 50 ads in 30 days.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:05:16 pm
content: They basically have the monopoly. All the buyers are there. It really sucks and shows how competition does not always work. One of the problems is that to give a good service, you need to couple the marketplace with the payment transfer service, and bank services are regulated and full of legacy issues, you can't just go and start up a new Paypal.Yes, I have sold on Ebay; some $100 fee out of a $800 film scanner. At the time, the total fee for Ebay+Paypal was 12% IIRC. It's totally ridiculous. They are making some serious money out of it. But the buyers are there.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmThe fees aren't the issue. If you can sell the item for €150 more then you could otherwise by using a popular platform with lots of potential buyers, then you're no worse off. At least you know the fees in advance, and from time to time they do offer a £1 final value fee promotion.The real problem selling on Ebay is there's next to no seller protection. I've had a couple of bad experiences recently, one buyer who was ridiculously picky about the condition of theouter packagingof the product they bought, and another whom I'm sure damaged a perfectly good product and returned it to me as defective; there's no way the dents and sharp scratches it had when I got it back could have happened in the post without the box also being damaged - which it wasn't.Selling on a forum might be one option, but there seems to be an unwritten rule that anything sold that way must be at a price which is highly favourable to the buyer compared to what the same item might fetch on Ebay, more than wiping out any saving in fees. They're not free from dishonest people either; just ask the idiot who offered to sell me an alloy wheel some years ago through a popular car forum, then tried to disappear with my money.If anyone knows a better place where I can sell a couple of repaired / serviced hi-fi amps and a PS3 console, do please let me know. I just want to deal with an honest buyer at a fair price... seems that may be too much to ask these days

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:19:35 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmSo figure out your total expenses for selling on eBay and compare that to any other method, like setting up your own physical store, website, whatever. Or, sell on some free platform like Craigslist and see if you get the same money. I sell on eBay all the time and although I try to use Craigslist and save on fees, it is only a fraction as effective as eBay and that is in a huge, huge local metro market, possibly the largest in the world for electronics and test equipment.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:24:49 pm
content: Ebay is the only real option for international transactions, so yes, if I wanted to sell something like this internationally, I would pay them $100+.If you are not selling multiple items, but just one thing you have, then local solutions are much better. In the US Craigslist is a very good option.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:46:14 pm
content: The fees are highway robbery, I'm particularly annoyed by the fact that they charge fees on the total transaction including the shipping cost which is inexcusable when you buy the shipping through ebay so they know exactly how much you paid and it's impossible to pad the postage cost. If you sell something cheap that costs a lot to ship you can actually lose money on the transaction which is a totally crap situation. Because of this I don't sell anything bulky unless I use BIN at a price that will make it worth my while. Then recently they disabled the version of the mobile app I had been using and the updated version requires a newer version of iOS than I have. Between these and the other issues people mention, I rarely sell anything anymore, only stuff that I really just want to get rid of and don't care if I make a profit or the occasional item that I think will bring top dollar. Blocking the mobile app that was still working perfectly drastically reduced the amount of time I spend browsing and the amount of stuff I buy too. Used to be my favorite way to kill time while waiting for something was to browse ebay on my phone, it's much more cumbersome in a mobile browser so now I don't even bother unless I'm really looking for something specific. Oh and the stupid sponsored items that get inserted all over the place, it makes the filters useless. Sort by lowest price and on the top, in the middle and at the bottom of each page you'll have a bunch of sponsored listings which are always the most inflated prices, it's infuriating.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 06:29:49 pm
content: Yeah, it's expensive. But I put stuff up on eBay anyway, because - who knows - someone might just desperately need the obscure item that perhaps doesn't have a high value to me. I'm always grateful when someone has listed e.g. some strange transistor from their parts bin that I can't find anywhere else.When all is said and done, losing 12% - 15% in return for reaching a potentially world wide audience - is actually not a bad deal when you are selling a single item. If you are selling high volumes... you need your own site as well as (not instead of) eBay, because eBay can still bring in new customers that weren't aware of your business previously.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 06:37:03 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 26, 2020, 06:29:49 pmThere you go. I've sold $200K + on eBay in the past 20 years--including some pretty high-value items over $10K--with minimal problems and while I can complain endlessly about various things from silly policies to lack of customer service, I can't make the case that the service isn't worth the money. I just sold two Tek CCD hybrids to a guy 2000 miles away with a spiky 2430A and he was even happier to get them than I was to sell them. The odds of that transaction happening outside of eBay is quite low and both his and my scope would have just gone in the junk otherwise.The biggest issue with eBay right now seems to be inexperienced sellers that don't know the rules nor how to pack anything.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 07:07:10 pm
content: The packing thing is exacerbated by ebay's fee structure and the way they encourage sellers to offer free shipping. There is very little incentive to properly pack things unless they are high value. Packing costs time and money and properly packing an item makes the packaging bulkier and heavier which costs the seller more in fees. I have had irreplaceable vintage items get smashed on multiple occasions, the dollar value was not high but it still meant one less of them around because the seller didn't know how or couldn't be bothered to pack it properly.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 08:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 26, 2020, 07:07:10 pmUnless it's ultra chap and tiny item, in most cases crappy packing happens due to incompetence rather than packing costs.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 08:17:14 pm
content: I guess you could use Kijiji and post the ad in all the different countries?

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 08:41:17 pm
content: I remember long time ago they didn't charge much for a listing if starting price was <$1. So... I had a spare account ready to fake-bid higher than my expected sale price, however I sold the item for more, so didn't need to.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 02:27:20 am
content: I've sold a handful of items over the years, each time the experience was okayish, often tedious. Now I can hardly think it worth the time, everyone wants their cut, rude customers etc. Nope, you can keep it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 02:46:03 am
content: Quote from: Scrts on September 26, 2020, 08:41:17 pmThat's called shill bidding. Not only is it against the rules and will get you kicked off ebay and permanently banned, it is a crime in many jurisdictions that can lead to arrest and jail time.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 04:11:12 am
content: My experience is that Ebay works. It isn't fun. It isn't cheap. But it works.If you are not a big seller there are no fees to list an item. So it works to find out if there is a market for your widget. Anywhere. Some just don't sell. And it is good to know that.If you live somewhere other than Silicon Valley or someplace similar it provides access to a much larger market than Craigslist or other similar venues. You can test this in reverse. Pick your favorite DMM or O-scope and look for it on Ebay. You will likely find several of them for sale, at a range of prices and conditions. Now look for the same thing on Craigslist or whatever. My experience is that you rarely find anything, and when you do it is priced as if made of solid gold.The for sale area on this site has been second best for me, and generally is far less productive than Ebay. There are exceptions. Some things that just don't move on Ebay find avid buyers here. But overall it remains in second.While there are many things that can go wrong for a seller, in a couple hundred transactions I really haven't had any problems. Maybe I've just had a very lucky run, but it seems like an acceptable situation.So for me, the bottom line is that I have got more value out of Ebay than I would have from other venues, and saved more vintage stuff from the dumps than I could otherwise have achieved.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 06:54:08 am
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmYou need to compare those fees with other selling channels. I expect you will find they take a 15% cut as well - frequently from both the buyer and seller.You need to compare the selling price with the selling prices on other channels. I have got some rather nice bargains from local auction houses.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 12:20:12 pm
content: Keep in mind that it is the buyer that pays the fees, and the shipping, and the sales tax, etc., in reality... Just make sure your price covers all the costs!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 06:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 27, 2020, 12:20:12 pmEasier said than done. If I end up selling the item to somebody who lives in the next town over it is much cheaper than if I sell it to somebody who lives on the other side of the country. Since I pay fees on the money I spend on shipping in addition to the money the item sells for I have to be really careful to not come out negative.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 06:22:52 pm
content: Apart from maybe one or two items i've used the regularly occuring promo codes to sell my stuff: Those give you a fixed 3€ sales tax, and you get 50 of them. If i was unsure about selling some gear i just put it up for a price way above market value so that no one is going to buy it in a hurry and either removed the listing or lowered the price when i knew if i would keep it or sell it.The only real problem i have with ebay is the abysmally bad seller protection: I've sold a HV PSU that had a rather peculiar design where it had a power resistor in series with the output, and the buyer used it for electrolysis (he was probably too dumb to realise that electrophoresis and electrolysis are not the same thing), cooking the resistor in the process. Complained after two weeks that it arrived damaged, ebay refunded him completely and i got a negative review from him, a broken PSU and lost quite a bit of money in shipping charges for a 30 kg PSU. (Btw, the next buyer of the repaired PSU needed help finding the power buttom on the front of the unit [not sure if he should play around with HV if he fails at this], so maybe dangerous items on ebay attract quite a lot of morons)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 06:58:08 pm
content: sometimes they do deals but ebay is not cheap because they don't have to care. I severely mark up my products on ebay (the few that I can be arsed to put on there) I put a note with every ebay or amazon order inviting people to buy direct.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 07:14:03 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 27, 2020, 06:58:08 pmYou can get banned for that

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 07:20:01 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 27, 2020, 07:14:03 pmNot if you just put this information into the package with the item. It is only the issue if you put it in the description of the item on the site itself.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 07:24:56 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on September 27, 2020, 07:20:01 pmAh, read it wrong. Thought it was in listings.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 07:32:36 pm
content: Yes I put the note in the package, many sellers do but I'm blunt about the fact they just got ripped off as dealing through third parties actually costs me money and time which is money. I tell ebay every time that I have a problem with them I do this because of the hassle they are.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 08:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmeBay is going away from PayPal...At least, if you're a business seller, you can setup directly and avoid PayPal fees.Of course, you will need to agree eBay T&C such as give a direct access to your bank account and wait 3-5 days* until $ hit your account* assuming you're selling regulary and "qualified" don't wait the delivery confirmation + NN days

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 08:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 26, 2020, 06:29:49 pmThe funniest part of some high volume traders sell cheaper on eBay than through own websiteEither a competition is really tough there or they assume 'loyal' direct customers are .......

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 08:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on September 27, 2020, 07:32:36 pmWell, is there nobody yet tried a trick such as - Return request "Don't like it" or "Doesn't fit", and eBay automatically approve this return with a shipping cost paid by you (as a seller)?Later, a buyer went to your website and has bought cheaper there

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 08:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on September 27, 2020, 08:25:56 pmI'd like to think customers are honest. I have indeed signed up to the ebay money management system, it avoids some fees but I am sure they will raise fees soon enough.Yes some sellers sell cheap on ebay, it's probably due to extreme competition and the mark up that they have that allows them to drop the price for sales volumes. I am the opposite. I sell what I sell, I don't take the piss and if you don't want to pay go buy some cheap rubbish. If I sell on ebay it means I either add the ebay costs on top or don't bother.I don't actually sell as much on ebay as I do on my own store.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2020, 10:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on September 27, 2020, 08:17:05 pmI've seen that too, on many manufacturer's sites the prices are the worst. I guess they don't want to compete with their distributors/resellers...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 07:24:10 am
content: No it's the actual sellers own sites are often marked up. But those are normally mass produced goods that are sold with a large markup especially if sold from china or from a rep on some european industrial estate so they have margins to reduce prices on ebay. My scenario is the opposite, the less it costs me to sell the less I charge.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 01:34:48 pm
content: It's always tricky to find the optimal price.https://marketbusinessnews.com/financial-glossary/optimal-price-definition-meaning/

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 02:19:19 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on September 26, 2020, 06:37:03 pmI'm pretty sure I'm the one you sold them to. Thanks again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 02:33:57 am
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmIt's not crazy, you are paying for the huge search audience.Most sellers charge more on ebay to compensate, I do.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 05:39:11 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 01, 2020, 02:33:57 amThat is the only reason I bother with ebay and yet I still sell around as much if not less that my own site does. They are not wortch the money from a platform perspective, they are just a massive referal fee agent. Try running an actual business and dealing with them. Invoices that come downloaded in a zip file and are in HTML rather than PDF - because they can not give a toss about customers who gladly come back for more punishment because it's the only way to sell.I try to buy direct from peoples websites rather than through ebay/amazon but it can be hard and feels like they have just taken over anyway. I see Amazon are starting to call sellers partners, that is insulting! I am a ripped off customer, their back end is as complicated and hopeless as ebays but even more expensive to use so once again, note telling you how ripped off you are and how I am worse off as a seller.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 03:43:38 pm
content: Ebay works. Yes it isn't cheap but it is hard to sell something secondhand any other way.Ebay also have very good SEO and they pay google a lot of money for the ranking, IOW they pay to expose your advert.Otherwise, nothing stops you knocking up a website and stick a page on it entitled "For Sale" and see what happens. I can tell you... nothing will happenI've been running a couple of websites; one for 20 years and one for 8 years and both have excellent SEO, but it took all those years, and above all a lot of relevant and verbose content.The main thing to watch, IME, is stupid people buying something which they then don't want, or they thought it was something else. Paypal (mandatory for Ebay in the UK, at least) gives people 45 days to change their mind. And the world is full of truly stupid peopleSo one needs to do- very good photos, showing the entire item close-up- a very good and honest description; not the usual Ebay one which is often illiterate and way too brief- a clear statement of what is included ("you will get what is shown in the photos")- reference reviews (ebay no longer allows URLs so tell people what to google)- not sell junkIOW, make it hard for stupid people to buy the item, and if they do, cover yourself so a Not As Described claim is likely to fail. Paypal are bast*rds anyway and protect mostly the buyer...If selling IT gear (cameras etc) sell them FAST and as soon as you bought the replacement; if you sit on stuff like that for a year, it will fetch much lessI've had some problems but only a few, out of many hundreds of items sold.BTW I had a curious one the other day: a buyer who bought a £200+ item, but has zero feedback and joined Ebay the same day. "Obviously" a fraud, but apparently Ebay now allows "guest" buyers and that is how they appear. Time will tell...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 03:54:35 pm
content: The old buyer is always right is a bit of a myth both with paypal and ebay. On both I have disputed claims and won. If someone is trying it on they generally get told to go away. I had one idiot buy a µCurrent off me. He claimed not as described because it did not turn up with the PCB screwed to the base. I went to town on the guy, I immediately escalated it to paypal and wrote back to him knowing that they would read it also that this is a piece of precision engineering equipment and if he was too stupid not to be able to put 4 screws in he had no business buying it in the first place. Guess who won!

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 04:09:32 pm
content: In my country we have marktplaats.nl its free.Maybe this could be international also somewhere a free site ?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 04:10:52 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 01, 2020, 03:43:38 pmI knew the person responsible for HP's PCs, before he defected to be a Microsoft VP. He explicitly compared selling PCs with selling bananas: if left on the shelf too long they start to smell.QuoteI explicitly state that I won't sell to people with inadequate feedback. I haven't had to invoke that, yet.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 09:01:04 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 01, 2020, 04:10:52 pmI've had that problem a few times, I don't think they will let you enforce it though. I once sold a computer and I had a zero feedback bidder put in the high bid at the end and then vanish. I did a little poking around and realized that the next highest bidder had an almost identical machine listed for sale. After I gave a second chance offer to the next highest bidder and heard nothing I looked deeper. I'm quite certain what they did was create a fake account and use that to bid against themselves and drive the price up higher than the one they were selling, then abandon the fake account. I relisted it and it sold for about what I was expecting the next week.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 01:07:45 am
content: I really don't have problems with fees. But I had really bad experience with some buyers back 15 years ago or so. Since then I have not sold a thing.The buyer contacted me at 45th day on 30day return guarantee. No power cord. Says doesn't work. My posting said no power cable. He argued over IEEE definition of cord and cable. He says he won't agree to "your arbitrary" rule of 30 days. He emailed to ISP, CIA, FBI, local sheriff, state attorney's office, post master general, etc, etc, etc. Ebay was no help what so ever. I just deleted my account and vowed to never sell anything there.By the way, none of the agencies mentioned above ever contacted me.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 02:56:58 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on October 02, 2020, 01:07:45 am1) You ran into one out of a hundred thousand chance of dealing with a total fruitcake...2) eBay has made major changes since 15 years ago, disputes are much easier to resolve now than in the "bad old days".

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 03:53:31 am
content: 1) You go ahead... I'm staying put.2) That may be so, but fruit cakes are in season.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 06:54:42 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on October 02, 2020, 01:07:45 amSounds like the guy on this forum a while back who was trying to argue that an item that is missing any of the of the accessories that came with it or has any wear & tear or damage at all needs to be listed not as "used" but as "for parts or repair"

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 07:07:30 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on October 02, 2020, 03:53:31 amFruitcakes and crooks are still a problem. I sold some sensors to a guy using the stock image of that series, it had 8 pins in the picture yes he was distraught that it actually had 6 as now all of his boards were wrong. I was like how could you make boards without looking at the datasheet (that also had the 8 pin image) which shows the footprint and the number of pins.Ebay were helpless, there was nothing they could do. The guy then decided it was OK and went on to buy another batch from my website.Bearing in mind i sell them for about what RS buy them for so no one in the world can sell them at the price I do and I don't even bother to mark these up on ebay such is my margin on that particular part. H saved more than I made but was still trying it on.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 01:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 02, 2020, 07:07:30 amClear violation of the accurate description rule mentioned earlier in the thread. How hard is it to take a picture or two of what you are actually selling? Or add a sentence saying it is a stock picture and what you are selling is the six pin version?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 01:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 02, 2020, 01:20:19 pmThe part number was given, without looking up the datasheet he could not have even chosen the parts, it was a poor excuse to get some money off, usual old trick. Not that it's any justification but same picture other sellers use and the distributors I bought it from used the same picture it was in fact theirs, far better than any i could produce. If you are buying electronic parts on the basis of a picture you are an incompetent idiot!Taking photos of small items nicely is harder than you would think. When I sold lots on Ebay i actually created my own illustrations using 3D CAD as it was easier than taking a macro photo.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 04:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 02, 2020, 07:07:30 amYes, I know. I have a close relationship with a business that does some on eBay as well. They are constantly dealing with buyers who finds every little fault trying to get the item for free. Parts swapping and returning are problems as well. I don't have time or patience to get involved in something like this.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 05:01:15 pm
content: Simon, you are pushing this off on the buyer because he didn't do some extra work. There is blame on both sides here.Taking studio quality photos is hard. But a photo good enough to avoid this problem is easy. The attached photo is a target of opportunity from my cell phone. Took maybe 15 seconds. No special lighting or anything. Finger is dirty because SWMBO was just in from the garden.This wouldn't have prevented some people from being asses, but it things the crowd and gives some defense against challenges.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 05:04:10 pm
content: Excuse me! I think i know a crook when i see one. You honestly believe someone designed a PCB based on a photo that gave no pin outs? Do you seriously use photo's on the web to guide your designs?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 06:04:21 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 02, 2020, 05:04:10 pmProbably not, but an incorrect photo would be an explicit SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) case and you most likely would be compelled to accept a return at your expense. If he was looking for discount, not a return, then while he is likely an opportunist, you left yourself open for it. Why is the photo wrong? Was there a previous 8-pin version of the sameor similarpart number? Perhaps he had the data sheet for an 8-pin part that he mistakenly assumed you were selling him.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 06:10:44 pm
content: As I said there is blame on both sides.A responsible engineer checks part numbers, data sheets, footprints, manufacturer and a number of other factors before committing to a design or purchase.A responsible vendor gives complete and accurate descriptions of what they are selling. You used a generic photo, and say it was all right. Would you say the same about a generic data sheet, or footprint?I am continually frustrated by the stock photos from distributors. When the photo doesn't match the data sheet, or some other discrepancy occurs how do you decide which information is correct? Sure you can email or otherwise contact the vendor, but it is a PITA. And answering those questions in many cases ends up being more work for the vendor than just doing it right in the first place.

author: WPXS472
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 07:36:31 pm
content: Over the years, I have had both good and bad experiences with eBay. Buyer protection certainly has gotten better of late. I have sold on eBay, but rarely do so.A local fellow who ran a music store sold an expensive guitar on eBay to a fellow in England. It was a bit over $4K. He got his money straight away, shipped the guitar, and thought everything was fine. That is until a couple of weeks later when his money disappeared from his account. He contacted eBay and was told that the buyer reported the item as being counterfeit and destroyed it. That wasn't true, and the fellow was out his $4K. Another instance with a fellow who was selling used PLCs on eBay. At the time they were going for about $1K. He sold a couple to this fellow who emailed him and said he was going to keep the boards and get his money back too. The gentleman I know told him that he would refund his money if he returned the boards. A few days later, the person he had doing his shipping received and signed for a box from the buyer. When he opened it. You guessed, it was empty. But, the buyer had the UPS delivery log showing that it had been signed for. This fellow opened a separate bank account for eBay only and took all the money out regularly, keeping eBay from getting their hands on it. I understand that eBay would probably ban him if they couldn't get the funds to do a refund. My last dust up on eBay was with a seller in China. I bought a small GPSDO board which was advertised as tested, guaranteed working. When I got it, it didn't work. I looked at the board under magnification and found some components missing, and one cracked by a blow from something. This could not have been shipping damage. The unit was well packed. I opened a complaint stating that it was sold as working, but didn't. The seller suggested that I use the OCXO by itself. I declined. saying that I bought a GPSDO. eBay suggested that I try to work things out with the seller, but they weren't cooperating. eBay said they had to pay for return shipping. They claimed they couldn't do that. Then, they Pay Pal'ed me $5 for return shipping. I told them that Return shipping to China would be $36, if they wanted to send me that. They refused. eBay refunded my payment. I identified the missing and broken parts, ordered them, replaced them, and now it works. I did refund then the $5. Years ago, I bought something that was never delivered. When I contacted eBay, the seller had closed his account and his bank account as well. I don't think there is much that can be done about such things as that. I have some things that I need to sell that eBay seems to be the only avenue for me to pursue. I am not looking forward to this.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 09:14:29 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on October 02, 2020, 06:04:21 pmNo idea but every seller, stockist and the parts own datasheet uses the photo. And I repeat, this twit basically claimed that he designed a PCB off the back of a photo which is a hilariously fake story.So am I supposed to take a photo of every different 0805 resistor I sell? ebay was never made for electronics parts but plenty of sellers and customers get along fine, idiots will always find something and as a business seller I have to accept a return anyway so will always be open to abuse. I had my warning shot when he complained about the postage costs before buying and so opted to buy more to amortize the cost, then he had a better idea.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 09:15:42 pm
content: I have sold quite a bit on eBay over the years, been on there since the 90's. The number of "bad incidents" have been pretty modest out of thousands of transactions. The pleasure of finding what I need, and selling what I don't need, outweigh any problems. Life and commerce sometimes brings problems - you deal with them as efficiently as you can, and move on?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 09:16:51 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 02, 2020, 06:10:44 pmThe photo was of a through hole part just a slightly different variant but perfectly descriptive of the case type, orientation of sensor port etc. It gave you all the detail a photo could give you.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 09:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on September 26, 2020, 03:33:42 pmA quick look at the alternatives suggests it is a bargain.Having to pay for google ad words for a website is extortionate.Other online auction sites while cheap to sell just dont have the number of buyers ebay has.Ebay is pretty crap at times especially for sellers when problems occur but it works for me.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 11:11:36 am
content: Quote from: WPXS472 on October 02, 2020, 07:36:31 pmI heard this story on TV also with some shoes.Those criminal buyers are making use of it, it cost to much stress to go after your money, work for nothing.You know what i will take the next airplane to england or even tokio if that happens to me, not that tokio people will rip you off, wrong example.Then i am there in front of a fake adress i bet.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 05:28:43 pm
content: This is the reason I don't sell international on ebay anymore, I've personally known several people who have been ripped off by buyers in other countries, it's nothing against those countries or the people in them, it's just a fact that it's exceptionally difficult to go after somebody who lives overseas.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 05:43:29 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 03, 2020, 05:28:43 pmOne of the many improvements they have made is that seller can now limit the countries they are willing to sell to. You can even insist on local pick-up only (no shipping at all). I have bought several items where I ended up driving out to visit seller and pick them up. I've also sold a few things that are hard to ship (rims, tires, that kind of stuff).

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 06:37:56 pm
content: I'm not sure people read those restrictions, or how enforceable they are, though.I sold an AV amplifier a few years ago, a big, heavy beast. Collection only. Within 10 minutes of the end of the auction I had an email from the buyer saying "please post it to my address", and pointing out that she hadalreadyagreed to come and collect it in person didn't go down well.Ebay, of course, places all the power in the hands of the buyer. I couldn't cancel the sale and refund it from my end - I had to talk her into requesting cancellation, which was a PITA.I've had people buy things and then selfishly contact me to say they want the item but aren't in a hurry, and insist that I continue to store what's nowtheirproperty at my own risk, indefinitely. Again, I can't reject the purchase and refund it because Ebay doesn't provide the option.Just this morning I had an email from someone asking about another item I'm selling right now, wanting to know how much to post to his country - but I only ever ship within the UK. The ad is clear on that, and hopefully Ebay would have prevented his account from actually bidding.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 07:15:12 pm
content: The only big issue I had was years ago with my very first sale. It was not a small bit of money for me at the time and having never sold on eBay before, decided to do some amateur sleuthing. Tracked down quite a bit on the buyer, their address checked out and turns out they are a sheriff's deputy from a small town. Feeling reassured, I shipped the item. Month and a half goes by, I've already sold quite a few thousand dollars in other items, and I get notice that my very first buyer is claiming a fraudulent transaction. I of course disputed the claim. Managed to track down posts the buyer had made elsewhere online proving they had indeed purchased and received the item. Still don't know what happened on their end, but I got to keep my money in the end. Whole experience left such a bad taste in my mouth that I almost stopped selling altogether. Fortunately, any of the other issues have been minor. Lots of trying to maneuver overseas buyers that are using a forwarding service into canceling the order themselves so I can avoid a strike against my account. Have had a couple packages damaged in transit, but never had an issue with the buyer. Always prided myself on my packaging, so would love to know exactly how they were damaged. Mostly a fun little side hobby with occasional frustrations.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 09:02:44 pm
content: At the end of the day if you are doing regular business you self insure to a degree. Again this is why I mark up eaby stuff, ebay is far more likely to yield problems than direct sales from my site so the ebay cohort get to pay the ebay share of self insurance.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 10:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on October 03, 2020, 06:37:56 pmEbay doesn't show your (UK) listing to people using other national eBays e.g. dot com instead to dot co dot uk.'However; there's nothing stopping a US resident from having a UK eBay account...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 11:53:31 pm
content: Part of the problem is that eBay bought almost every local competitor. They bought the market, so they can set the prices. Free market 101, or monopoly 101.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 07:14:31 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 03, 2020, 10:44:37 pmI can see things I am selling and have sold on thewww.ebay.com.ausite. I have sold to overseas customers. IIRC you have to have had a number of successful sales before fleabay will let you do that.I don't know whether paypal will get snippy about accounts and addresses in different companies. Currently they won't let me (and >500k others) enter a correct postal address; their CSRs' suggestion is to enter a false address of a "nearby county"!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 07:53:38 am
content: You don't need separate ebay accounts, one login works on all sites but they are separate sites sometimes with separate rules that cater to that country so you listings only appear on the site you sell on but you can buy from any site. You can from the one account list on any ebay site you like, I tried listing on more than one country for a bit.Amazon is the same, if you join .co.uk you have access to all 5 of the European amazon markets, they are different sites, you have to separately list products but in your dashboard you choose the site you are dealing with (money balances are even kept separate even though 4 out of 5 are in Euro).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 02:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 04, 2020, 07:14:31 amI guess that what happened to me was that seller must have restricted sales to one country only, so I couldn't see their listings unless located in the same country.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 03:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 03, 2020, 09:02:44 pmThat is the way to do it. When I sell something on Ebay I price it with the Ebay & Paypal fees added to the price.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 04:41:48 pm
content: That implies you are underpricing your material. Hi

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 05:28:13 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 02, 2020, 05:04:10 pmI do rely on the photos to some degree and have been burned several times by Mouser using the wrong photo of a part. Digikey on the other hand has always shown the correct variant. IMO if the picture is not accurate then it is worse than having no picture at all, stock photos on ebay are less than useless. If there is no photo then I'll study the datasheet carefully and make sure the part number is exactly the variation I'm looking for, but if I studied the datasheet earlier and know there are a few different distinct styles of a part and I see the picture clearly shows the one I need then it's only natural to trust the photo. If you use a stock photo you had better say so very clearly otherwise you are sure to get returns.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 05:30:10 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 04, 2020, 04:41:48 pmNo. It means making the buyer pay for using a platform which offers the buyer a convenient one-stop-shopping experience. As a seller I'm not going to pay for that.As a buyer: When I start at Amazon or Ebay I usually check if the seller has a webshop. In most cases the items will be cheaper but the shipping costs may be higher. The pricing on Ebay's global shipping program from the US to the EU is quite reasonable even for heavy items.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 05:35:31 pm
content: Fck the platform. I remember times when eBay fees were only 1 or 2 percent. Techinically nothing changed since then except for bureaucracy at eBay. It was WEB site before and it is still WEB site now. Why we pay way more now?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 05:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 04, 2020, 05:35:31 pmBecause capitalism. They charge what the market will bear, same with nearly anything else.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 05:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 04, 2020, 05:35:31 pmBecause back then Ebay wasn't operating in a sustainable way. At some point there has to be a healthy return on investment. It goes like this will all start-ups. Sell at a low price to gain market share and then raise the prices to recoup the investments & start turning a profit. Nothing wrong with that for as long as people are willing to pay for the service.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 06:06:14 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 04, 2020, 05:28:13 pmSo you are saying that based on the attached photo you would make engineering decisions?Do you agree that the photo shows that this is a custom through hole package, it has 2 rows of pins, is sort of DIP like but clearly not standard and there is one sensor port (as it is not a differential sensor) that points up vertically?Right, all of those attributes also apply to the actual part sold.If we want to be pedantic, you can only see 6 pins in the picture! the photo does not guarantee that there are 8!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2020, 06:07:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 04, 2020, 03:00:06 pmExactly, and as a buyer, I accept paying the higher price for something that I couldn't find without putting in even more effort than making the $ needed to pay those fees.Compare with a local store selling something - you are paying their overheads and spending time going there and picking the item up - versus buying online, and having to pay the overhead of that process (intermediation fees and shipping, as well as seller overheads which may or may not be lower).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 08:58:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 04, 2020, 05:35:31 pmBecause they bought out the competition.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 09:07:01 pm
content: It's the "drug dealer business model", get people hooked, then... bang.Remember when Youtube had no advertisements? ....

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 09:50:39 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 04, 2020, 05:48:22 pmPrecisely. So many other outlets started to charge for access to their portals (news outlets, for example) and people complain but forget they need to pay the bills.Quote from: SilverSolder on October 04, 2020, 06:07:16 pmYes, but the common man is usually unaware of this. In another group there was someone complaining that a convenience store at a gas station was charging too much for a product that could be found at a nearby supermarket for less - I told them the reason is in the name: "convenience", but my explanation was received with a cold stare.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 11:01:35 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on October 05, 2020, 09:50:39 pmIn my working life, I have dealt with professional buyers many times. They are a pleasure to deal with: you explain what your costs are, you are open about the profit margin you expect to make in order for this to be worthwhile to your company. In turn they are open about what the price has to be in order for their business to make sense. You do some toing and froing, and then the deal is done - afterwards, they don't whine and complain - everyone is happy, because a deal was hammered out that works for everyone. If it was not possible to reach a deal - both sides walk away friends, until the next opportunity.It is the "amateur buyers" that are the problem: no understanding of structural costs, or the need for margins, and in many case no understanding of the product or even their own needs. They will make poor decisions, enter into poor agreements, and then they will cry and whine like babies, blaming everone but themselves afterwards. Come to think of it, this sounds like a lot of voters!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2020, 11:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on October 05, 2020, 09:50:39 pmThey made the mistake of making it free early on, offering all of their content and then everybody including me got in the mentality of expecting news to be free. Now when I find a news site that has a paywall I leave and go elsewhere to find the same news. I realize they have to pay the bills but I'm not sure how they can put that one back in the bag.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 03:22:26 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 05, 2020, 11:01:35 pmNot only a lack of understanding but, depending on the culture, people tend to see profit as evil, which lends to the perception they are being taken advantage.Quote from: james_s on October 05, 2020, 11:59:45 pmWell, to be honest, in the beginning the costs of running an online operation were very low and it was probably perceived as a fad by the big news corporations. When the whole thing started to increase in dimension and smaller ventures were gaining ground, the large corporations saw themselves with a somewhat bleak perspective: either charge and shoo away people to other news organizations still running free or keep the free operation and try other means of revenue (ads, pop ups, etc.) - they even had agreements with ISPs providing services to their subscribers. The reality nowadays is that a great deal of these organizations are comprised of "journalists" that copy each other or always use the same news aggregator sites, thus dilluting the value of the news content.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 04:14:20 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 05, 2020, 11:59:45 pmConsidering that 99% of what's behind that paywall is just the same unverified copy/paste trash full of agenda to the brim, I see no reason to pay for it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 05:49:17 am
content: I do find the quality of ebay poor. The front end looks lovely for the customer, the back end for a seller is a mishmash of 2 or 3 different interface versions either borrowed from other ebay sites or they just could not be arsed to finish the job. It's a really poor show with bugs that I pointed out and that the acknowledged several years age still there.

author: zzattack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 09:50:51 am
content: I'm absolutely appalled by the blatant robbery of the eBay+Paypal mafia, but yes, occassionaly I use it to sell stuff.My latest sale incurred over 20% in fees. Breakdown:- Item sold for $1600, which would be about €1363.80 according to XE.com- Paypal took $62.70 for the transaction (3.9%)- With their unfavourable conversion rate, the withdrawable amount of the remaining $1537.30 equalled €1256.61- because of new seller, high risk bullshit, Paypal mafia holds the money for 21 days -- rather annoying but no further monetary loss- eBay commission is 10% over $160 + VAT (21% in my country), charged in euros, totalling up to an invoice for €168.66I end up with €1087.95, so there's €275.85 lost in transaction fees, VAT, commission and conversion rates. This is 20.2%.Rather outrageous, but so was my selling price. I did not expect to sell the item in the first place, much less for what I was asking.I will likely 'feel forced' to use eBay again sometime in the future, and I will more than likely feel robbed again after calculating how much they took. But without them, there wouldn't be anything to take, and I'd be stuck with something I'd rather exchange for some monetary compensation.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 11:57:19 am
content: I don't feel robbed, I just rob the customer in turn (and tell them) if more people did that their dominance would be less.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 01:59:25 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on October 06, 2020, 03:22:26 amIt was a revelation to travel in the Middle East when I was young... The culture there is much more free about trading. Sellers are expected to try to get the highest price, and buyers are expected to try to get the lowest price. If you don't play the game, you are seen as an idiot that's giving your money away and they will happily take advantage of you. Once I learned to play, the exchanges became much more pleasant, ending with cups of chai and pleasant chatter!Sometimes, I feel our Northern / Western culture just doesn't "get" the nature of a market... we have a very suppressed notion of it. Sellers of course try to get the best price, but surreptitiously... our sellers display a "fixed price" that you are just expected to accept, the buyer's only choice is whether to buy or not. Only if enough people don't buy, will seller lower the price. It is normally not acceptable for Northern/Western buyers to haggle about the displayed price, you instead have to reject that seller completely and find a different seller.The result is that the West is full of naive buyers, in particular, that distort the market prices for everything. For example, would housing prices be as high as they are if it wasn't for masses of folks whose only limit to what they are willing to pay is what the bank is willing to lend them? Similarly, would the average price of a new car in the US really be north of $36,000 if people weren't bending over too far?People have the sense that they are being taken advantage of, and they are right - what they don't see, is that it is their own fault! Don't play the game if it is rigged against you... Say no to going into debt for 5 years for a $36,000 car. Don't buy a shitty 2 room apartment for lottery level money. It isn't so hard!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 06:13:01 pm
content: For the most part I hate haggling, just price the thing fairly and if it's worth it to me I will buy it.Cars cost as much as they do because they are bloated. Features that once would have been considered extravagant luxury items are now standard on even the cheapest models and on top of that there is a massive and ever growing bucket list of mandated features it must have. Take as an example the 1982 VW Rabbit a friend of mine has, it's a very basic vehicle, no frills, no fancy tech, pretty close to the bare minimum that is needed for a reasonably comfortable car, costing only a few thousand dollars when new but here we are almost 40 years later and it's still going. You couldn't sell a new car like that now, it would have to have to be completely redesigned, it would need thousands of dollars in safety equipment, thousands more in electronics for engine management, buyers would (ostensibly) expect power windows, power seats, power mirrors, power locks, power moonroof, climate control, heated seats, 8 speaker sound system, infotainment, bluetooth, etc adding hundreds or even thousands of pounds of weight and many thousands of dollars to the price. There's just no way to offer a low cost basic car anymore even if many people would be happy to buy one. At least there is still the option of a motorcycle to circumvent much of this.There is also something to the people spending as much as the bank will loan them thing you mention. I have encountered a shocking number of people who make purchase decisions not on the total amount they will pay for an item but the amount that the purchase will add to their monthly credit card payments. If not for mortgages there is no way the average house price around here would be pushing up towards $1M, I suspect the situation would be greatly advantageous to people like myself who think long term and are able to save up money.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 06:37:13 pm
content: I would argue that cars are bloated in an attempt to justify why they need to cost so much! - so the "naive consumer" thinks they are getting tens of thousands of dollars worth of advanced gear, when any engineer knows that these "features" don't actually cost very much to implement in a mass production environment.I'm not against cars becoming more comfortable, safer, and better equipped... but $36K average price, seriously?? Especially when you consider that many of the models are sold world wide, in some markets at a much lower price... guess what, the car makers ALWAYS make money, even when they sell at low prices!A lot of the safety features are just purely carving up the market, like DVD Regions! E.g. is a Canadian car really unsafe in the USA and vice versa?"The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) has advised that vehicles made in Canada for the Canadian market, U.S. manufactured vehicles originally intended for the Canadian market, or other foreign made vehicles available for the Canadian market may not meet the requirements of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act (and the policies and regulations adopted as a result of this Act) and EPA emission standards."- according to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. This may be technically true, but if you think there is any real and significant difference between the cars I have a bridge I'd like to sell you!All it is, is a ready made excuse for cars being much, much cheaper in other markets... and so, we end up with the highest price that a penned-off market of naive buyers will bear!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 09:27:53 pm
content: From the places I know and lived, cars (just like gasoline) are dirt cheap in the US. Used cars are even cheaper.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 09:40:07 pm
content: I once bought a car for $500 and drove it for 17 years. I'd still be driving it today if not for a semi truck rear ending me and totaling it. I bought the wagon version to replace it, this time costing me $2500 but still a lot cheaper than a new car. I'd buy every one I could get my hands on if I had a place to store them because I really love the station wagon format and that seems to have been completely replaced by the stupid crossover design. It's the spork of vehicles, replacing sedans, wagons and small SUVs with something that tries to be everything at once. They're much taller and bulkier on the exterior and yet manage to have less interior space and roughly the same ground clearance as my wagon. I don't see myself ever buying a brand new car, I'm happy to let some other person take the $25k depreciation hit and break it in for me.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 09:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 06, 2020, 09:40:07 pmI hear you; back in 2012 I had to replace my fun coupe with a larger car (to accommodate a growing family) and didn't want to have a second big car (my wife's car is a large Mazda CX9). I opted for a Subaru Outback 2.4L that not only is a very roomy Station Wagon, but it does excellent mileage.

author: klunkerbus
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 09:59:21 pm
content: I used to almost always have some odd or end thing listed for sale on eBay, but I rarely do anymore. It takes time to prepare a good listing. Yes, the fees can be high unless you wait for one of the ongoing seller incentives with reduced fees. Terms and conditions have evolved to where the buyer has more protection than the seller does - it used to be the other way around. Shipping is expensive and a PIA to deal with, and I won't go the free shipping route. If eBay corporate wants me to offer free shipping, they can pay me for the cost to ship. After all, I as a personal seller am not Amazon. If and when I list anything, I try to make sure the item is only visible to US-buyers. Why? Because that's where I am, and last I checked PayPal protection didn't apply on international sales and shipping internationally is an even greater PIA.In a nutshell, it's hard to make much profit selling on eBay, especially after factoring my time involved in listing, monitoring, packing, shipping, etc. I usually have to have some motivation other than profit to sell an item. Maybe it's a hard to find item and I know someone can appreciate it. Maybe I don't just want to landfill or donate the item.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 03:21:05 pm
content: Ebay is great for getting rid of stuff you don't want and which would otherwise rot on a shelf and eventually be worth absolutely nothing.OK you lose 20% but so what?Right now I have about 10 items listed for sale. Most will sell eventually. There is no penalty for waiting.For doing actualbusiness, both Ebay and Amazon are tricky. Let's say there are 3 versions of your product. A cheap one $5, a middle one $10, and a high quality one $20. And your business is in the last one. The site will present a prospective buyer with "you may also be interested in" and the the cheaper ones. Most people are too thick to think about it, so you have just (a) lost a sale and (b) done some free advertising for the other two. So these platforms work only if you are doing the $5 one. And obviously you need to build in hefty margins, especially if using Amazon's fulfilment service, but that's true for any distributor arrangement. If you make premium quality stuff you won't get sales via these platforms. You have to find other channels.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 03:37:31 pm
content: I am still buying on ebay but selling has almost come to a complete still stand for me because of too many problems with stupid or idiot buyers or some buyers that have intent to screw the seller. It has become redicules over the years.10 years ago, ebay was fun to sell.Today it sucks for sellers!About 6 month ago I sold a brand new original item for around 200 Euro on eBay germany.The seller claimed it was bad and wanted his money back.I told him that he would have to send me the part back and then I will decide.He called Paypal and got his money back right away.Then he gave me negative feedback on top.So, I ended up with no item anymore and no money and a negative feedback.Just because the buyer wanted it this way.Ebay has become a buyer's market only from my experience.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 04:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 07, 2020, 03:21:05 pmWhich is where I am at, if people want one of Daves meters or they want a probe master probe "they want that one", i am not in the market of competing with cheap chinese meters or other probe makers, people buy from me because of what I sell, not because of how much I sell it for.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 07, 2020, 03:37:31 pmThe only way to deal with buyer complaints is to offer to take it back right away - and if buyer thinks it was not as described, you have to eat the shipping.Basically... make sure your listings are bullet proof - and even then, some idiot will find a way to misunderstand!

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 08:47:02 pm
content: I've sold quite a few items on ebay - incl. expensive scopes etc. So far no issues.But a few pointers:1. I sell only cheap crapat standard rates. I have a list of more expensive items I list when eBay sends out the "seller specials" where you only pay GBP 1,- or 1% per sale. So I pack everything up and write the text and pictures - and are ready to post when eBay sends their special offer. (Only works with things that does not depreciate quick....)2. Always have pictures of the ITEM itself. For fast postings just use eBay app on your phone and snap some pictures. Even bad pictures gives me better prices on auction than stylish ones or original manufacture pictures only. It also protects you as seller. If it is electronics with "display option" show it working somehow. I have a standard text on my adverts saying "If it is not shown in the image or specs it is not included"3. To get the best price if you are in the UK - you must ship to rest of EU. It usually gives me 10-30% higher end sale price. I usually exclude the "EU Newcomer" countries as that is they only places I have had attempted "fraud" from. Sadly you can't save your seller preferences for countries so you have to actively go and select countries you ship to manually every time.4. Try and guesstimate the potential market before you list it. I sold my Tek MDO via advertised price and "best offer" enabled because market is "small". Other items that has a bigger market - does a lot better on "No reserve / GBP 1,- start" than if you put reserve on or a high'ish start price. Sometimes I do make a bad call and sell something too cheap - but usually it reaches the price I expect or more.But I am amazed by how many people will pay up to normal retail minus a few pct for 2nd hand products. Some buyers on eBay are just "shopping mad" I think.But sometimes one can be really lucky at get the right product for the right price or dirt cheap. That was how I got my MSOX4k...

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 08:54:46 pm
content: As I wrote before, the way to keep out the idiot buyers is to create a really good detailed listing. Good pics and lots of text. Most idiots are illiterate (which is partly why they are frustrated with so much in life, and take it out on everybody else) and if you write say 20 lines, they won't read it and buy another listing whose text is 2 lines.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 09:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 07, 2020, 08:54:46 pmOr, they will buy it without reading the text - and then blame you for hiding the details when their expectations are frustrated later!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 06:31:27 am
content: Either way you can't stop idiots. I had someone complain i sent her 50V electrolytic capacitors instead of 25V as listed. Fact is she found some cheap junk from china and wanted a refund. Fact is no reputable manufacturer bothers to make 25V 1µF electrolytics, the value is so small they just come out at 50V. I tried explaining but she was not interested, again I got ebay in on the case and told her if she wanted to send them back to me I would refund her minus shipping, ebay never said a word and that is what I did, she returned them and i gave her back what was left after fees. So petty, so much time wasted over less than £10. But you will never stop the idiots, these capacitors went from being "not as described" to poor replacements for the rarer more sought after 25V parts which I told her was rubbish al clearly every chinese seller and their dogs were selling the 25V ones dirt cheap where as she got quality branded parts from me.I think in the end i told her it would serve her right if her cheap chinese caps blew up in her face as I personally would not rely on stuff like that anymore.There are always idiots, and ebay are not as senseless as people make out. In that case despite how heated it got they never intervened and i never lost a penny, just a sale that I needed like a hole in the head.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 09:57:51 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 08, 2020, 06:31:27 amSimon - all your grief seem to come from you not accurately describe the products you are selling ... I know your inner angle want to do better than advertised but with eBay and any selling platform - you do not want to leave anything up to chance. But if it is 50v then write 50vSo accurately describe the product you sell and you will have a lot less grief.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 10:09:26 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on October 08, 2020, 09:57:51 amThat is NOT my experience.I am always using all 12 really good pictures and plenty of text.And still have some idiots complain.At one time I sold 10 technical items but in reality I had 11.So, I thought to do the buyer a favor and added the 11th item for free.He gave me negative feedback because he got 11 instead of 10 items.Go figure.The world is full of idiots.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 11:03:08 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on October 08, 2020, 09:57:51 amOnce again it was an idiot that would have caused grief one way or the other. I used to have crappy chinese 25V ones but then bought reputable manufacturer ones. It was not intentional, just an oversight when I bought more stock. I supplied something that as I told her was, fit, form and function as described.On the other hand i taught so many uni students how to use a mosfet to control a motor or something for their degree projectsYep, your at the end of your degree and doing a poxy PWM brushed motor controller as your degree project and still don't know the difference between N and P channel, which way round they go or how to use them. But these guys were not assholes and I spent a lot of time helping people who were willing to be helped and not screaming at me because they messed up.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 12:02:39 pm
content: Idiots are idiots - that's what makes them idiots!Think of all the entertainment they provide, they aren't completely without function in society!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 12:37:06 pm
content: Yes it is mildly entertaining to do battle with these idiots from time to time.

author: Golds
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 06:32:18 am
content: Yes, I started trying to sell it on Ebay in June last year, and so far I have provided tax of $3000+. Although it helped me complete the sale, the 10% sales tax was uncomfortable because it didn't even miss the shipping cost.Hope to find other low-cost sales channels, thank you!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 06:53:32 am
content: The problem was that lots of chinese sellers were selling everything for £1 with the rest of the price as shipping, for example a solar panel I saw for £1 with £250 shipping so they just made the cost of shipping costs the same. They also have a thing for free shipping but this of course means you paid fees on the shipping cost so now you do anyway.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 11, 2020, 06:53:32 amI get this, but when you buy the shipping through ebay this sort of trickery is impossible. They know exactly how much you paid for shipping because you paid through their own system and the only excuse for charging fees on the shipping cost is pure greed. I'm surprised they don't charge fees for their fees, and fees for those fees on top of that.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 04:38:34 pm
content: Fake bidders, seller fees, paypal fees, shipping stress, damaged returns and scam buyers. Ebay is a crap shoot, but it's the only selling platform in town. Just be sure to do the math when you're selling....... and bidding.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 05:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 12, 2020, 04:08:10 pmThey do charge fees for their fees and so on. If I want to make £100 with a 10% fee I can't sell at £110, because I will only get £99, so i sell at £111, but then that is £99.90 so i sell at £111.10 and I make £99.99, so I sell at £111.11 and make £99.999 which will round to £100, fees on fees, on fees, on fees...... That is why I "rip" people off. Ebay fees are not 10% but 11.11111111%They are pushing the selling of postage through the site now but it's value has nothing to do with the shipping charged. I suspect that the reason they are having you buy it online is more about trying to collect the evidence of shipping and reduce claims.I don't buy my postage on eaby because I am signed up to the post office drop and go service, if I buy on ebay apart from my post office not seeing any of the money I have to stand in a queue. With drop and go i slap the address on, make a list of the items with the shipping method and just leave it with the post office 5m walk around the corner. They process it when the queue has died down and I get an email telling me what my account was charged and can check on my account for the tracking numbers.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 08:44:37 pm
content: Ebay charging a fee on postage -a service they do not provide- was a response to some sellers charging pennies for their items but having stupid postage rates. It meant ebay was missing out on a big cut of their customers' trade. Ebay is not Amazon; it stocks nothing, sells nothing, ships nothing.The ebay system was designed for domestic/national sellers, but does not scale for global drop-shippers who have the resources to bot-spam listings with identical items at anti-trust prices. Ebay is trying to be another ali-express? Of course, China has long profiteered from the (non-reciprocal) universal postal agreement. This has led to the crazy situation where domestic ebay sellers find themselves unable to compete with their own suppliers on their own national platform, because it's always cheaper to ship from China than from the next town.Would I sell on ebay? Yes I do. Do I offer free postage? Only when it's built into the buy-it-now price. Have I dealt with idiots? Good customer service goes with the territory.Do I make enough profit to retire? Are you kidding

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 09:25:50 pm
content: I can see why they did it but of course whilst closing a loophole it put the price up for everyone which they can do, still amazon charge 18% or actually once you factor fees of fees 22% and that's to use them as ebay.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 10:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on October 12, 2020, 08:44:37 pmTo that point, I think our (Western) postal services are used to loading the price of sending anything with all kinds of costs that are nothing to do with the actual, real distribution costs. That's why it costs us $30 to send a package to China, whereas our Chinese friend paid sub-$1 to send it the other way (i.e. one envelope in a container going over on a ship just doesn't cost that much in real terms, before loading the costs...)Shipping container rates from the United States to China begin at $277 for a 20 foot container. How many envelopes/small packages can you fit in a container? - you see the real price is only pennies, and the Chinese sellers get to pay the real price.... we don't. Yet many will tell us that we are the ones living in a free market system, while the Chinese are stuck with inefficient communism!Our postal costs are high enough that Amazon thinks it is worthwhile to hire their own drivers and buy their own vans instead of using the existing "shipping mafia", that ought to tell you something.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2020, 11:49:04 pm
content: The cost of shipping out of the USA went up dramatically around 10 years ago. I used to send quite a bit of stuff and as long as it wasn't huge or super heavy there were economical ways of doing it. Now all of the low cost surface options are gone and USPS only offers the high priced premium airmail services. Shipping even a small package to the UK for example will cost over $50 now, they charged me over $7 to ship a small packet weighing a few ounces (blank PCB) that could have been sent as a letter for under $1 but the clerk said it was rigid enough to count as a package. People get upset with Americans for refusing to sell international but it's not our fault, it's just that it is such a hassle compared to domestic and the cost is so obscene that it's not worth it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 06:12:38 am
content: As far as i am aware the Chinese government subsidizes the shipping. It's also a quirk of an agreement between countries to no charge each other.I can ship in the UK for about £5 an to Europe for £12 which is pretty much as expected. Our letter costs have skyrocketed though when Royal Mail was sold off the first thing they did was start putting the price of stamps up for letters even though they were now turning a profit from the ecommerce world.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 12:08:25 pm
content: If buying from Australia, to Australia, I often find the same eBay seller/person elsewhere on the Internet, and transfer a 'cheaper'cost to his bank account, after some dialog. Then we BOTH save!!

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 02:49:01 pm
content: "The cost of shipping out of the USA went up dramatically around 10 years ago. I used to send quite a bit of stuff and as long as it wasn't huge or super heavy there were economical ways of doing it. Now all of the low cost surface options are gone and USPS only offers the high priced premium airmail services. Shipping even a small package to the UK for example will cost over $50 now,"I find that really surprising.What about normal airmail / air parcel post?I've been importing from the US for 40+ years and the biggest issue I have seen is that most US firms are not interested in using the "Post Office" because somebody has to mess about, go there, etc. Whereas if they use say Fedex they just chuck everything on a big pile, have a streamlined system for labelling it / printing off the AWBs, and the Fedex driver just collects the lot, so nobody has to do anything "complicated". The result: I pay $150 for shipping the smallest item, whereas airmail would have cost $15.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 03:03:13 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 13, 2020, 06:12:38 amThe agreement between governments relates to the distribution of "the last mile" (can be many miles!) after the container full of mail is dumped on the floor in some distribution center, once it has arrived in the destination country.The agreements between countries are based on the real costs of distributing the mail. (We are talking about professional negotiators here, not members of the public!) The real costs boil down to a warehouse, and some guys with some vans - they all know that, and that is what they are willing to pay for. Those costs are not that high, and have nothing whatsoever to do with the prices we pay at the post office counter.Western business and private users of the mail services are, to put it in simple terms, being fleeced. Then, when we notice how cheap it is for Chinese businesses to send stuff, we think they must be cheating... - and it is convenient for the powers that be for people to blame China rather than them, so they are happy to let people believe it is all China's fault - they are far away anyway, and probably blame us for a lot of their own problems in return, on the same principle!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 03:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 13, 2020, 02:49:01 pmThe US postal rates are pretty complicated. E.g.https://www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/index.htmlOn one level I don't blame the average small business person for not wanting to grapple with this... on another level, they are obviously giving up sales, since it is the customer that pays the shipping, not them...It is hard to send "real world" packages to the UK for less than $20. The exception would be "flats" i.e. paper documents - nothing else is allowed to be sent at the document rate.Competing services that simply bung everything into a container like the USPS and Royal Mail should be doing have already appeared...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 03:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 13, 2020, 03:03:13 pmactually royal mail ran at a loss until the volume of online selling picked up and it started turning a profit because the cost to process a parcel is not too different from a letter but for it's size, weight, fuel etc. As soon as Royal mail started making money they privatized it. I don't think parcels have gone up dramatically just letters. Now parcels and letters are delivered by different people who may even cross each others paths but the volume of parcels is such that it warrants a person with a van where in the past the on foot post person would carry the odd parcel. Now the ones carrying letters do leaflet drops too.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 03:48:33 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 13, 2020, 02:49:01 pmSo i started bulk buying probe master and reshipping in the UK because to buy one set from the US cost the same for the shipping as it did for the probes.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 04:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 13, 2020, 03:48:33 pmYes, the insane charges have created opportunities for local distributors. Maybe it's all intentional!

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 01:18:05 pm
content: I don't believe this is true in the US. Airmail (for "letters" and "small packets up to 2kg") exists all over the world, by international agreement. You can airmail a 2kg package from Mongolia, most probably.Some countries support up to 4kg; possibly more. IIRC, Sweden used to. I used to be able to tell you but Royal Mail don't seem to publish an easy "book" anymore; it's probably online.So all the US firms which tell you they can't do it- are just being lazy- pay $100 to Fedex/etc under some block deal and charge you $150 (they could not add $50 to airmail)- are selling diamonds- are in a market where there is a high level of buyer fraud, so they need continuous tracking (tracked airmail is "recorded" only at the ends of the journey, broadly speaking)- have customers who are too stupid to understand "shipping time 5-10 days"- are just being lazy- are selling to countries where almost everything gets stolenIt is certainly true that in some countries anything which can get stolen does get stolen e.g. Egypt has a theft rate on airmail packages exceeding 50%.It is also true that 1st World postal services seem to be poorly managed and this creates opportunities for the couriers to rip everybody off.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 01:52:54 pm
content: If you go to a post office you may find the printed price guide but they are getting harder to get hold of. I grabbed one as their site is crap! I can't just look up a weight and destination anymore I have to put an address in because they want to flog me the shipping there and then.Yes everywhere does 2Kg but after that it gets tricky. I tried to send 2.17kg the other day to Belgium but they won't have stuff over 2kg, luckily I just pulled out some packing, cut the box down and sent it next day at 1.7kg. I was happy being lazy with the packaging and paying a couple of quid more but instead was made to save my money

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 05:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 15, 2020, 01:18:05 pmI'd encourage you to visit usps.com and try getting some shipping quotes on various packages. Keep in mind if you try to send a small packet and it is either rigid or more than 1/4" thick it will be charged as a parcel instead of a packet or letter.You also cannot use the automated kiosk for international parcels. You have to visit the post office in person during business hours which usually means take time off work, stand in line for anywhere up to an hour depending on how busy they are, find the right customs form and fill that out, believe me, I've done it loads of times and it's a big hassle. I didn't develop the system, I'm just stuck living with it.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 05:45:30 pm
content: If you have a PayPal account in the US, you can send small packages online (with an 8% corporate discount) here:https://www.paypal.com/ShipNow

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 06:37:10 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 15, 2020, 01:52:54 pmhttps://www.royalmail.com/price-finder

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 06:40:47 pm
content: Yep, that is the one that used to be easier to find unless they changed it. Try looking at their contact page, it sends you round in a loop so you never get the number. It's easier to get their number off the regulators website (offcom) than it is their own.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 09:05:13 am
content: "Yes everywhere does 2Kg but after that it gets tricky"Indeed; then it is called AIR PARCEL and can be quite an exercise. It is also expensive. AP used to be cheap but today it is perhaps 50% of DHL, and with the discounts which DHL etc offer to corporate users (more than 50% off) nobody uses it anymore. I have also seen AP taking a month...At work we split say a 3kg airmail shipment into two packets; it is still much cheaper than a courier.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 10:20:15 am
content: I was a little shocked over my September invoice having sold nothing.Someone from another country purchased a listing where I didn’t tick the option to offer international postage, plus they didn’t pay in 4 days, so I cancelled it.Someone else purchased a listing, and didn’t pay in more than 4 days, so I cancelled it.It looks like I was charged for both of these sales.I promptly cancelled all remaining listings, and seriously considering viability of the platform in my case.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 11:26:11 am
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 22, 2020, 09:05:13 amYes i have often split stuff up or been a bit smarter about the packing like this time to achieve the same robustness but at under 2kg, air bubbles are lighter than shredded paper.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 01:00:18 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on October 22, 2020, 10:20:15 amYou can call support and get them to refund those. They are not going to do it automatically....

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 02:40:19 pm
content: ebay is ultimately full of bugs and without fixing the existing ones they continue to make half hearted buggy attempts to "improve" their site. For buyers it looks great, but for a seller it's a mash up of at least two different attempts at creating system usable by sellers. Last time I tried clicking on the link in an email to say I'd made a sale and would I like to buy the postage I just went round and round in circles being asked for my login again and again as I was passed between two different existing systems and their current in progress attempt. This is one reason I signed up to drop and go, i stick an address label on and just go and dump it on the local post office counter and walk out. Sometimes he manages to stop me before I dissapere to give me the last weeks worth of receipts.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 03:09:13 pm
content: Ebay buggy ?, aliexpress, that is really buggy.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 04:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 22, 2020, 02:40:19 pmIt seems as if eBay uses different software in different parts of the world. Probably necessary to comply with local differences in taxation and other rules. And it also seems as if it may be more broken in England than it is here in the USA. I am not a great fan of the eBay user interface here on either buyer or seller side, but don't seem to have run into the degree of difficulty you have encountered.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 05:36:54 pm
content: to be honest it's also part of the fact they are huge and it's complicated. The amazon arse end is just that, an arse.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 04:00:00 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 22, 2020, 01:00:18 pmI did, and they did, but so long as we have computers which exist to run software, why should I have to bother? (if I even notice).

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 08:15:54 am
content: Quote from: [member=98969]rt on October 24, 2020, 04:00:00 amHuman error, computers are infallible, they do exactly as they were told to do, but if you tell them wrong they will do wrong.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 12:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 24, 2020, 08:15:54 amI meant that they could write it into their own software not to charge in those cases.I also take issue at the moment that a buyer can leave feedback for a cancelled sale.That could probably be appealed as well, but it all seems unnecessary.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 01:18:18 pm
content: Yea, they don't care, can't be asked, like i said in the UK we have bits of 3 different versions of the system running together to the point that you can get stuck in a loop constantly logging in and that's when you are trying to give them more money.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2020, 02:48:27 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on October 24, 2020, 12:16:00 pmIf it was automated, I think too many people would find a way to abuse it...So, sellers have to call support once a month to sort out these kinds of issues. Not the end of the world?

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 07:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 24, 2020, 02:48:27 pmThe refund hasn’t been processed as promised (within 24 hours), so make that possibly twice.Look at it this way, If every company that bills you each month overcharged you, and you had to call each of them, would you be impressed?eBay aren’t special.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2020, 07:47:12 pm
content: Quote from: [member=98969]rt on October 26, 2020, 07:38:07 pmOh but they arethey are a monopoly and can do as they please within the loose framework of the law, what ya gonna do? sue them?

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:28:12 pm
content: Yikes! This British ebay seller is really pissd"Why do ebay lie so much and why is their website so Crap? Plastic Wristwatch" £124.95 + postagehttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Why-do-ebay-lie-so-much-and-why-is-their-website-so-Crap-Plastic-Wristwatch/114196270385Seriously pissd

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on November 03, 2020, 08:28:12 pmSo angry he isn't making any coherent sense - Definitely in need of a pint (or two)!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:59:21 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax Error on November 03, 2020, 08:28:12 pmSo he wants his MP to solve an ebay dispute?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 07:20:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 04, 2020, 12:59:21 pmSounds perfectly reasonable, when you are obviously dealing with the most important, and the most "right", person in the entire Realm!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 10:02:23 pm
content: hehe true

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 01:44:33 pm
content: I had a good month on ebay wit h£500+ turn over.So joyfully did my end of month accounts and made about £5 !Unless you can find something fairly unique that you can mark up well you will get bogged down in the race to the bottom on price on ebay.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 01:56:02 pm
content: For all its flaws, I can't say I've ever regarded Ebay as a race to the bottom in terms of selling price.It's interesting - IMHO! - to compare the comments that come up when people compare pricing of used items on Ebay to prices on forums like this one. The unwritten rule seems to be that selling prices on forums should be absolutely rock bottom, always a good deal for the buyer at the expense of the seller.Open a discussion on the topic and responses are along the lines of "Ebay prices are crazy, your <item> isn't worth that" - conveniently ignoring the fact that if something will sell at the higher price on another platform, itisworth that higher price, by definition.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 03:58:20 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 15, 2021, 01:56:02 pmThis ignores the presence of that most abundant of natural resources - the Idiot!The Idiot will happily overpay for anything, and thereby sets the market price higher than it really should be. I'm 100% convinced that Idiots are the real cause of inflation!

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 04:52:53 pm
content: For youtube you now have odysee.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:05:29 pm
content: ebay is what it is. I take the view that I need to make a certain markup, if they don't want to pay then so be it. ebay now costs me 18% as now you "can" (have) to pay for advertising to get your products into the searches. normal selling fees have quietly gone up from 10% to 13% now that they have taken over the payments. The seller dashboard is slightly more useable than it used to be but still difficult and buggy.If you want to know what being fucked over is like try selling on amazon. As a seller I can't even talk to anyone as i don't pay £30/m membership on top of the already extortionate seller fees, the queries I have been able to put to them have been ignored. The seller dashboard is an absolute nightmare and buggy. Ebay is crap but Amazon is even worse plus they are ruthless and do take money off you when clearly the buyer is taking the piss. They keep hold of your money until they are happy so you are always several hundreds of pounds behind.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:20:46 pm
content: I have used $bay to sell only sporadically and it did what it was supposed to do just fine. They have their hands in your pockets at every turn. That is just the way it is, but they have some use.A while ago, I got rid of all my old C64 stuff....stuff that "normal" people would have given away / donated, or junked years ago. But, when you are schlepping a bunch of boxes, schlepping one more seems minimal (i.e., when one moves).I had to check and photograph everything. I had to scrupulously write the auction text and navigate a lot of bizarre $bay methods. I had to schlepp to the PO after finding boxes and packing stuff. I had to track everything and I had to answer questions. I never had any negative feedback or PITA buyers. BTW: floppy discs do last 30+ years.It worked for me. I did get more than I thought and, nearly every thing went. Plus, it was fun to revisit all that nostalgia...and I have absolutely no regrets.So, yeah, I really would....but only sporadically and only for certain things.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:29:28 pm
content: It's either sporadic stuff to get rid of it, I will use it instead of giving stuff away as people at least turn up to take it or if they don't pay it's not being sent. If you sell a lot it's a faff but repeat items once set up are worth the effort.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 08:02:47 pm
content: I used to sell stuff on ebay and have a 100% positive feedback score over 700. For some reason they now demand access to my bank account in order to pay me, so I probably won't be selling there any more. It's too bad really as I cleaned out some closets over the winter and have a couple of dozen things I could probably turn into money pretty easily.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 08:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 15, 2021, 08:02:47 pmHmmm. I know that it came up a bunch of times, but I never gave them a bank account. I went strictly with $ay$al and they regularly bother me with asking for a bank account. I have never given one to them, but yes they have a specific CC. When I got cash from them [edit $ay$al that is], I made them send me a hard copy check, which they did. I can't recall a "convenience fee" [what a weasel term] but there may have been one.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 09:29:47 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 15, 2021, 08:02:47 pmThe bank account allows them to direct deposit payments. What this has changed:- Faster payouts- No paypal feesIts generally a good thing. If you are concerned I would open up a new no-fee banking account and use that, or look into third party accounts.edit: I was able to add a prepaid visa card app as my direct deposit location instead of my main bank account.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 10:30:38 pm
content: I just logged into my ebay account for the first time in many months and actually couldn't figure out where or how to add a bank account. Not that I would have. I realize there are options, but for now it seems more trouble than it's worth. I don't really see why just continuing to send money to my Paypal account is not an option.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 11:17:22 pm
content: I have been irritated by this, but have been much more successful selling on Ebay than on other market places. I definitely did not even consider giving them information on one of my primary bank accounts, so I opened a new zero fee account at a new institution so that I am as well insulated from other accounts as possible.It was difficult figuring out how to enter the banking information. You would think they would make this easy, but they missed that opportunities. Unfortunately I didn't write down the sequence of mouse clicks to get to the place where you find the information so I can't help anyone else get ther.Ebay promises better results from this method. Time will tell the difference between the demo and the reality. I am skeptical, but we will see.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 07:32:14 am
content: Well basically you save 3.4% on the paypal fees but as I have already noticed the ebay fees are likely to rise. As a business seller I was offered it by them so signing up was relatively painless considering the mess that their website is.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 09:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 15, 2021, 01:56:02 pmEbay takes a significant cut, and their system is strongly slanted in favor of the buyer. In exchange for that you get a huge audience and typically get top dollar for your item. Obviously people are going to expect lower prices on a forum like this. The audience is far more limited, there is no protection on the transaction, the forum isn't taking a ~20% cut on the sale price, and it's typically a transaction "among friends" of sorts, rather than a random ebay bidder. I offer stuff on forums when I just want to get it into the hands of someone who can use it and get a few bucks for my trouble. If I want top dollar, I sell it on ebay and put up with the requisite hassle.In recent years I've seen people selling stuff at hamfests and such basing prices on asking prices on ebay. My attitude on that is if you want ebay prices, sell it on ebay, if I'm at a hamfest I'm looking for bargains, if I wanted to pay ebay prices I could do that without leaving my house. Not to mention there is a LOT of stuff sitting on ebay at absolutely absurd asking prices. It sits, and sits, and sits, waiting for that one sucker who either doesn't know any better or absolutely needs that specific item and is willing to pay. Ebay BIN prices are a useless metric, it only matters what stuff actually sells for.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 10:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 17, 2021, 09:17:13 pmIt seems that they do favor buyers, and maybe unscrupulous buyers as well - or maybe they are just open to such exploitation. But not always. In the earliest days of the pandemic, I was certain that it was going to get worse and quickly and I sent relatives packs of face masks.One pack of something else was sent, and to make matters worse, it was sent to the oldest relative. Instead of masks, some kind of cut letters, like you might use to make a sign, were sent. Being of a different generation, she was adamant that I get my money back and she schlepped the package to PO and sent it back to me (I couldn't convince her otherwise and could not lie to her - I was tempted to because the last thing I wanted was for her to go to the PO).I get it, I photograph it, including a tracking # and I write the seller. Look, I am fine with language barriers and they work both ways, but if you are selling on an English speaking site, you need enough English to communicate. All he would say is that 'I sent the package and here is the tracking number'...this is like 3-4 messages with pictures. I knew he sent me a package, it just didn't have what I bought - not even close (and the same seller had successfully sent the right items to several people, for me). I got nowhere and went to $bay, writing a long appeal or dispute or whatever it is called, including all the info and also said I was fine returning the item as soon as the buyer sent me the address and funds (I knew he was not going to do that). - Shortly afterwards, I get a robo email saying it was denied because 'he sent the package'.Then on to $ay$al. Sent in the complaint, pictures, all the info. While they were more attentive, they said that it would take something like 6 weeks (I don't remember exactly, but it was a long time) and they give the seller a long time to respond. I was like wtf? Why am I messing around with this crap?I contacted the CC card, sent them the info and within 24 h they issued me a temp credit which turned into a permanent credit within a couple of days.Get this - 1-2 days after the permanent credit, the buyer writes me (with vastly improved English) and asks if I want a refund.So, not always favoring buyers.As for hamfests, which also included computerfests, back in the day - do they even exist anymore? Apart from pandemic issues, I thought they were long gone and had given way to flea markets where everyone thinks they have 'valuable antiques' because they watch TV.I should get out more and see what is out there (maybe in not too long we can).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 02:55:28 am
content: Quote from: DrG on March 17, 2021, 10:28:24 pmProbably not during Covid, and they are far more rare than they used to be but they're not entirely gone. I haven't gone to one in about 10 years though because I know if I do I'll just end up with a bunch of "junk" following me home.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 07:47:15 am
content: ebay tends to favour the buyer but I have had a few instances where they have been pretty good and let me deal with the buyer and not stepped in to appease them. There is this attitude from many buyers that ebay is this faceless conglomerate of sellers and they are owed nothing by the customer and it's fine to rip them off. The last good one I had the ebay customer services person was very good as while she admitted that the situation was not fair on me she explained the best course of action which was to call the buyers bluff and accept the return that he would have to pay for. She was right, the guy backed down and actually bought another batch of the parts he had just declared totally wrong and not useable in his design.Amazon on the other had would not talk to me and just took the money of 2x BM235's and gave it back to the customers, one got to keep the meter and was whinging about import duty the other apparently refused the parcel but I have not had it back yet......

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 03:26:23 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 18, 2021, 07:47:15 amYeah, but if I ordered a board from you and you sent me a bag of confetti, I don't think you would repeatedly tell me that "I sent you a package".I really only had a real problem with an Amazon shipment once. I was watching the delivery (it was a high-priced item [for me] and a couple of low-priced items) and it disappeared from the face of the earth (Amazon said damaged in shipment - sorry) only a few blocks away. Amazon told me to cancel the order (and then they would start a refund) and then I should order everything again.I said no because I kept my part of the contract and they did not keep their part (I am steadfast on that point). Refund my money (I understand that shit happens) or ship what I paid for - those are the two choices. I am not going to help a huge company do their job for them. Their response was simply, "we would love to help, but we can't do that" and btw they would not give me a refund unless I cancelled the order - which, in this case, is pure, unadulterated BS.So, I disputed the CC charge (because I didn't get anything) and I got almost instant results talking with a "supervisor". They fixed the order and gave me one of those "free" Prime trials.I am sympathetic to sellers and I believe you that you can get screwed sometimes, but there is room for improvement in both directions.

author: info
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 04:10:01 pm
content: Quotecould not have said it better

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 04:46:02 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on March 18, 2021, 03:26:23 pmThey used to have really excellent customer service, that was one of their main selling points. In more recent times though I have been very disappointed, it's no better than average and in many cases worse. You can't even email them anymore, and it seems they have offshored most of the support so it's the same sort of script reading "support" as you get with the phone company. I've started to avoid buying from them because I don't want to deal with the crappy support, I want to be able to send off an email and await a reply, I hate the stupid chat bots.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 04:52:54 pm
content: I think people who have trouble selling on ebay are (and with apologies to anyone here who these descriptions match)- people who try to sell junk, often defective, and hope the buyer won't complain / won't notice / won't notice until the 45 day (or whatever) deadline has passed- people who can't write properly, write a poor / brief / nonexistent description, and thus attract stupid / careless / illiterate buyers (who then cause trouble, because these people struggle with everything in life)- people who can't be bothered to post decent photos, so buyers expect something better / differentI have sold probably 10-20k's worth of stuff on ebay, in the last 17 years. Very little trouble. The recipe, in addition to NOT doing stuff on the list above, is- post a photo of everything you will include and state in the advert that you will get everything shown in the photos- do not accept bids from dodgy countries (China is a good one; full of scammers and currently there is a 100% loss rate on airmail packages *into* China, from the UK)- write a LONG detailed description; stupid buyers will have their eyes glazing over after line 2 and will hassle somebody elseIt's the same in any other business, actuallyI also buy a lot on Ebay and it is OK for cheap stuff which doesn't matter too much if it is junk. It's very convenient... and there is stuff on there which Amazon doesn't carry.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 06:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 18, 2021, 04:46:02 pmYea because now their idea of customer service is to just refund you the sellers money as soon as you raise an issue, the seller still has to pay their extortionate fees so they win either way and the customer is happy so no need for customer services. So at worse the seller looses the goods and get's charged for the pleasure or they may get the goods back assuming they are resalable. If you have amazon ship for you returned goods are often just binned.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 09:49:03 pm
content: Ebay has millions of customers but millions of sellers to so often its a race to the bottom on price.Its easy to knock up a website but then no one knows its there until it appears in the search engines which can be expensive to get to the top.There are other auction sites but their customer base is small.The only other one I have found where I sell anything is face book.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 02:28:28 am
content: This is funny, yesterday I read an article about the "Silk Road", they efficiently sold drugs worldwide C2C.Now eBay has this monopoly alone.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 03:46:05 am
content: While ebay has millions of customers it also has millions of sellers all subscribed to the race to the bottom on price.A couple of months back I turned over £500 on ebay, great stuff.So did my monthly accounts and outgoings were over £600 !So only person who made money was ebay.I have since thrown a lot of cheap stuff listings out and kept my more unique higher value items.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 05:12:21 am
content: I came to the point where I stopped looking at other peoples pricing and decided that it was my way or the highway. I did quite well as a proper business and turned over £1.9k one january, this then halved each month until by April I had no sales, strangely my stuff could not be found on ebay for looking and instead all the chinese stuff was front of the que. So I jacked it in, flogged off all of the remainder of the stock to a member on here and won't sell anything for under £10 now on ebay. But for some years I did well with just basic through hole components that apparently people are happier wait for from china.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 01:49:18 pm
content: Yes in this hobby you easy get to the point you can open a shop.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 04:41:24 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on June 03, 2021, 01:49:18 pmThat is how it started, with IRF540 MOSFET's, I bought more from RS than I needed and noticed that ebay had electronic parts for sale and that prices were not cheap. So I put them on and soon was buying to resell and then went professional. It all started pretty much as a joke, I never thought anyone actually bought at those prices.

author: LECKO
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2021, 04:09:52 pm
content: We've had a couple of bad problems with Ebay sellers, BUT, we use Discover Card and they are pretty good dealing with bad deals. One they will investigate, and as Discover pay Paypal, if Paypal don't do anything, then Discover sticks Paypal the bill and reimburses us.One seller sent us THREE of the same item ordered, they argued we'd ordered three, but order clearly stated one, they refused to authorize return so we got two for free.Last order was for a Tek 2213 scope for parts $30 plus S/H, which wasn't much, scope arrived in record time IN PERFECT condition and fully working, seller even threw in a power cord for free. His ad stated not working for parts only. I'll buy again from that seller if he has anything I need.There's always one bad apple, but many people are honest and just want to make a living.I'm expecting two Ebay orders Monday, a Tek 2246 problem scope that will probably end up as a parts unit, for $112 it's worth it, tube and P/S worth more than that, and an old Heathkit I bought for sentimental reasons, I built that model in the early 70's, again going cheap.I'll post on what state they are in after Monday.Just as an addon, a couple of years back I bought seven for parts Tektronix scopes, they arrived well packaged and I stored them away until I had time to check them out. Three were 2465's. I brought one down to the office that was complete and labeled "NO POWER". Slipped a known working supply in it and voila!! worked perfectly, all four channels. The seven cost 200 bucks plus S/H. One was a 2215 and another 2246, both with defective P/S, once I get some time, I'll repair those. The 2465 has more than paid for that order.