Tektronix TDS210 teardown and BNC replacement - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 10:27:02 am
content: Recently got a Tek TDS210 from eBay for £1/MHz which I was happy with. Had sticker on one channels with "iffy" written on it but showed self test passed. Took the gamble.Arrived with the usual wobbly BNCs on both channels, a common problem on these when previously owned by a gorilla. Wiggling the "iffy" channel stopped it from working reliably. This was confirmed as the cause by testing first with a grounded generator and then with a floating one. The grounded one by nature of the loop through the signal generator should show a waveform at correct amplitude, the floating one no when you wiggle the connector as the BNC shell lifts off the board.Took it to bits. If you have to do one of these:1. Lay the handle down flat and lever the sides of the handle outwards and it will pop off.2. Undo the two screws behind the handle.3. Pull the power button upwards to remove it.4. Unclip all the clips on the bottom.5. Put the unit face down and lift the back straight upwards.6. Remove the front of the unit which is now loose. The keyboard rubber will fall out here.You will be left with the inner chassis with all the bits attached to it. There aren't many bits: the screen, the front panel, the logic board (which is tiny) and the power supply. Nice design:Next step is to get the logic board off for the repair. Undo the earth strap, the panel, power and LCD connectors and unclip the board from the bottom. That's it!Examining the board shows the problem. The BNC connectors have two pins on the bottom which are soldered to the board to anchor the connector shell and act as ground. As expected, these have sheared off.Next step, remove the existing BNCs and clean up the pads with soder wick then clean with isopropyl alcohol. Lots of high impedance stuff on scope front ends so clean, clean and clean some more!TE connectivity / AMP part number 5414373-1 is the correct replacement part. RS sell these for £2 a pop:https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/bnc-connectors/8218808/New parts soldered on. You have to hit these pretty hard and use a flux pen as they are on a ground plane, not tinned and are generally large heat sinks as well. Metcal FTW. Don't use a fire stick! I left the original trigger connector on as that is fine. I don't want to do any unnecessary work on anything ever as that risks damage. The site had three-pass cleaning again afterwards.Assembly is the same as disassembly but in reverse. No special considerations. I fired it up quickly once it had been partially assembled to make sure I'd put everything back correctly.Final assembly and test. Working nicely.Shiny connector money shot.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 10:33:00 am
content: Posts like this are refreshing my soul in this hot summer.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 11:08:46 am
content: Good job.I'd recommend to test the power supplies output caps for ESR / capacity. I've had two TDS224 here (@work) where I had to replace them because they were dried out. Scope worked anyway, but had a quite large ripple displayed with no input signal in the lowest mV/div positions.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 11:34:40 am
content: Excellent news, well done. I always find it amazing that they can do so much with so little these days when you compare the size of that circuit board to the analogue ones and that is also kind of scary because I doubt it very much that they did that without using bespoke hybrids which we all know become unobtainable after a short while.I always thought that the £1/Mhz guide was about right for analogue scopes, digital always seem to be far higher and judging by what these normally sell for on Ebay and the like they generally seem to more like £3/Mhz, there are currently 3 on there going for £150, £175 and £250 as BIN and 1 on auction with £102 on bids so far and the £250 BIN one above also on auction with starting price of £150. Looking at the sold history it seems to be pretty much the same storey if you want a working one. Certainly ones listed as spares or repair do seem to be about the £1/Mhz figure, YMMV.I want something like that to help regain some space in my lab as the scopes I have except for the Fluke PM3390B, old style analogues and are big and heavy (Fluke is big but very light and could be placed on a suitable shelf),andbut the tds210 or similar could sit on my bench in front of me inside of being on another desk situated on my left and behind me making using them a bit awkward to say the least.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 11:53:16 am
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on July 31, 2018, 11:08:46 amI will certainly look into that. There's quite a bit of noise on the low volts/div settings so good plan. I took lots of pictures of the power supply during the tear down in case I needed to replace anything in futureQuote from: Specmaster on July 31, 2018, 11:34:40 amYeah there's bugger all in it. This is a good thing as the general design approach leads to quite good electrical reliability and long life. Only the power supply is under any stress and that looks relatively easy to repair anyway.My rules are:1. £1/MHz for analogue scopes in fully working condition up to 100MHz then 50p/MHz after that2. £1.50/MHz for digital scopes in fully working condition up to 100MHz then £1/MHz after that3. Take £0.50/MHz off for broken, untested.4. + more for interesting features.This was listed at £75 but the seller took a £60 offer which is in line with the above rules. Also he showed it passing self tests which was an instant buy for me.This takes up literally no room at all so big win for bench space. Actually takes up slightly less room than the DS1054Z does.If you want a cheap DSO this appears to be a good option if you can snag one.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:34:49 pm
content: Yeah, you got a proper deal on that one; over here they're starting at $150 DOA and $250 "tested working" without probes.That's just cray-cray.It was pretty much exactly the same 2 years ago when I bought my wRigol.If I'd been able to find one like yours, I might not have gotten the 1054Z; but I'd probably have replaced the EXT-TRIG BNC just to have the matching shiny.That said... having used the "upgrades" on the 1054Z a few times, I don't regret a penny spent on it.And it seems that eBay KNOWS I'm looking at Flukes again...mnemBut wait... there's more... Now How Much Would You Pay?!?™

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 06:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on July 31, 2018, 05:34:49 pmYeah I know, our Ebay brings up the USA items as well and some them after the conversion to £ was done looked pretty attractive until you add on the postage and import dutyQuote from: mnementh on July 31, 2018, 05:34:49 pmI know I have said this before but seriously Flukes??, yes I know that they are good meters but you also pay for that and if you look at some of Joe Smiths YT videos on multimeters, some of the Flukes just don't survive the tests that he puts them under but the Brymens do and they are less expensive but have more bells and whistles and are even more robust than the renowned FlukesI'm beginning to notice that more and more of the YT electronic bloggers are putting Brymens on their benches and using them as their goto meter for most things.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 06:18:46 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on July 31, 2018, 05:34:49 pmYes I have to agree. Genuinely I wouldn't have bought the Rigol if I had this on the bench at the time as well. But I needed a digital scope right there right then and only had a Tek 465 available that worked.Don't mention the trigger BNC. It is already annoying me in its incompleteness. I may just swap it out yet.To steal tggzzz's signature, I'mhaving fun doing more with lessthese days so I wonder if I should lose the Rigol and live with this. It means at least £320 off the credit card after the FT-818 left some burn marks and I've got a genuine pre-Danaher made in America Tektronix digital scope in really good condition. It has that indefinable quality about it. Quality as in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance quality.I have ordered a couple of Wittig 100MHz probes for it from my usual probe dealer (wild-pc on eBay). These are really nice probes for the money:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162693385317... I'll grab some genuine Tek ones if I see any go past for a reasonable fee. Probes cost more than scopes these daysQuote from: Specmaster on July 31, 2018, 06:00:10 pmYes exactly this. I am in the process of shifting my U1241C because I don't use it now other than for a current meter. I am considering filling the gap with an 87V just because I am a member of TEA however

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 06:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2018, 06:18:46 pmSurely your joking??? look at this Joe Smith video, Brymen 869 V Fluke 87V

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 06:49:25 pm
content: Oh yes 100% it's inferior but sometimes they pop up for bugger all cash (outside of ebay) so it's a good investment.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 07:02:58 pm
content: I wish you could get Brymens like that, on Ebay the 867 is way more expensive then what we paidIf you could, I'd buy a few more of them and maybe sell on my bench meters

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 07:12:40 pm
content: Yeah it's being sold by littlediode which doesn't surprise me. Probably bought them from Telonic and resold. Found a picture of littlediode the other day:

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 07:19:16 pm
content: Not everything from Littlediode is more expensive, I've actually brought a few bit and bobs from them over the years. Been thinking about maybe getting a BM235 for £76.80 from Telonic, its the same meter as the first EEVblog meter.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 07:46:02 pm
content: Yep, a stock standard repair for these TDS210's and 220's.As bd139 says the ground plane can suck a lot of heat and for those with substandard irons will struggle with this apparently simple repair. Without a proper chassis mount BNC and a securing nut any scope with a 2 ground pin BNC is subject to the same failure. Most scope manufactures have learn the folly of this style of input construction as not only is it subject to damage but also microphonics without robust BNC mountings.As the area where the BNC's are is only 2 layer there are further improvements that can be added by strapping the BNC's 'up and over' with a strip or a strand of copper soldered to the top of the BNC and onto or through the ground plane. Once beefed up in this manner you have peace of mind that the chance of them breaking again has been eliminated.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 07:49:22 pm
content: Indeed it was a boring repair. I am owed some karma due to that D83The best option to stop the BNCs coming off is not to let a gorilla near your test gear

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 08:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on July 31, 2018, 05:34:49 pmYou don't have to replace the external trig BNC, if its safely soldered, which I expect it is because most people don't use it, just use a bit duragilt on it and it'll come up nice and shiny to match the 2 new ones.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 09:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2018, 06:18:46 pmDon't bother with the type of Tek probes that came with the TDS210 - they were garbage. The compensation trimmer has come loose in one. They are molded so can't be taken apart to fix it. The tip has broken loose in the other. Still works, but pull the grabber off and the tip remains pull out too. Needle nosed pliers are then needed - or give up on using the pointy tip and shove the grabber back on.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 10:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on July 31, 2018, 08:00:12 pmMy OCD says otherwiseQuote from: orin on July 31, 2018, 09:26:42 pmThanks for the tip. I shall steer well away from them then----Anyway, it's not enough to just collect toys and not use them (I'm looking at you TEA), so I decided to use the TDS210 to do something useful this evening with some other bits I have lying around. Firstly I have a 30m (10.1MHz) low pass filter on a breadboard floating around. Decided to actually work out if the filter is working properly and do some characterization as it was from a filter table with some hacked up capacitor values rather than a scientific calculation. For this we need a log-log plot of frequency versus power in dB.Now you could go and buy an SNA but that's not required if you have enough crap floating around. In this case, a DG1022Z with log sweep up to 25MHz and a log power sensor I hacked up here based on the AD8307:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1430272/#msg1430272... original circuit here:http://www.robkalmeijer.nl/techniek/electronica/radiotechniek/hambladen/qst/2001/06/page38/index.htmlQuick run through DaveCAD:DG1022Z set to sweeep at 500ms interval, 6-25MHz, Mark at 10MHz, amplitude 1V p-p. The sync output runs the leading edge at the start of the sweep and the trailing edge at the end so you simply set it to trig on channel 2 and bob's your uncle. Vertical is 1dB/10mV (calibrated) and you sweep the marker with the encoder on the DG1022Z and make voltage measurements with cursors.Please excuse the horrible input connection with the clip leads. I couldn't be arsed to solder another BNC on the board.Board is a 2W output 30m CW transmitter.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 01:48:33 am
content: Looks great, bd. Just a little polishing on that trigger input and you'll be all set. But, if you really must change the BNC, then so be it.I was expecting some capacitor plague inside, but didn't see any alum. electrolytics on the logic board in the pics. Were only the TDS400 and TDS500 series scopes casualties of the plague?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:36:49 am
content: I’ll try polishing it firstThere are no electrolytics on that board. In fact there’s only about five tants as well. It’s incredibly minimalist. Literally nothing to go wrong.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:58:32 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 06:36:49 amThat's good, but need to keep the ripple really low then.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 07:15:01 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 06:36:49 amExcellent.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 07:45:11 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 06:36:49 amYep, polishing it first is the way to go, replacing it for no good reason other than to play with the Metcal is pointless,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:05:54 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 01, 2018, 07:45:11 amYou forget bd made comment about a previous owner and the likelihood they had hair on the palms of their hands whereas bd has his fair share of troubles originating from his own digits so the chance he has to rip the Tek down again should not be dismissed.So for the couple of quid each getting some more BNC's might be wise where he can change that oxidised one too and then make a proper job of adding some anti gorilla BNC tie down straps too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:26:03 am
content: Yeah. The previous owner was apparently a “studio” which usually means sound engineers and they are gorillas by nature. I spent a few years fixing up buggered recording kit and keyboards before I got into test gear.I’m not going to tie the connectors down any more on this one. While it does make them somewhat more rugged, it’s ten times more risky to change them again in the future and only to a point. The connector design flaw is good in a way as it acts as a sacrificial failure mode rather than wrecking the board. If you smack the panel on this the BNCs will break off rather than crack the board. This happened to that 54602 I had and it was end of line unfortunately.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:37:08 am
content: That's another reason why I like analogue scopes, they tend to have the BNC's mounted directly on the metal face plate and connected to the PCB via the 1M resistor so they are far more robust and will stand upto these gorillas, even sound engineers would struggle to knacker one up.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:41:16 am
content: You’d be surprised what they can fuck up. Flight cases don’t exist to protect the gear from baggage handlers and loadersEdit: I had a Korg TR rack in once which someone had jammed pencils in and snapped them off in the 1/4” jack when they were stoned.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:48:59 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 01, 2018, 08:37:08 amA modern DSO with a metal chassis is little different, the BNC has both a securing nut and grounding studs into the PCB.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:57:15 am
content: Nice work. I'll file that BNC part number away for future reference.I was lucky that my BNC's weren't snapped, a resolder had them nice and firm again.I also replaced the caps in the PSU as they are known for going bad, and I replaced the CCFL tube in the display which helped improve screen brightness.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:08:24 am
content: I have a later TDS-1002 model which has hardly been used really with less than 100 boot cycles and the BNC connectors are still in excellent shape. I wondered on these vulnerable models whether the addition of a slim O'ring or small rubber band placed over the BNC and between the case might assist in giving the connectors and PCB some addition support.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:21:23 am
content: I just looked back to when I had one of these that I repaired and flogged off....2011 !I already had a TDS2012B and the TDS210 was antiquated by comparison so it had to go but if IIRC I got good $ for it with a new pair of P6100 probes and all manuals on CD as part of the package.I can thank it for confirming how popular and desirable DSO's where to become so in some way it's helped me down this path of now providing gear for others.Gawd, the memories.Quote from: Muttley Snickers on August 01, 2018, 09:08:24 amIIRC Tek had woken up to mounting BNC's more rigidly and they had 4 pole BNC mounts that weren't as susceptible to breaking like in the 210 and 220.I had one too with thousands of hours on it, pages of error logs and a dead LCD HV backlight inverter. Crook MLCC cap in the RC on the primary side push-pull switcher which was an easy fix and that went down the road too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:30:43 am
content: I’m glad to hear thousands of hours. Mine has done 300 and 100 power cycles if I remember correctly

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:46:51 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 09:30:43 amThat was for the one like Muttley's, a TDS1002.Funny that an EE had owned it from new and knew it was a failed backlight and couldn't be bothered about fixing it.He was a good friend and knew I fiddled with scopes so just gave it to me as he'd already got a new TDS2104C to replace it. After I fixed it, added some probes and the cursory manuals on CD it was a $500 gift as far as I was concerned.Little windfalls like that sure spur you on.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:49:51 am
content: Most people don’t care enough to fix it. Same as where I work. I sift a lot of PCs out of the skip, most of them from a company in the same buildingI’ve made a lot of money out of stuff that was really easy to fix that no one bothered with. I should really hit some more hamfests

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:57:50 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 09:49:51 amI think he was just waiting for it to give trouble so he had a valid excuse to upgrade to a 4ch DSO.Thinking back....these 2 Tek DSO's I had that passed on through, I would've most likely checked the PSU rails for ripple so they met SM spec and as they both did I didn't touch them however it's a few years later now and I'd be looking harder at caps in old gear these days. You should too if you think you'll hang onto it.

author: pa3hfu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 05:02:11 pm
content: Hi!Of my TDS210 one little knob (trigger) is broken.Anybody where I can get one? TNX!!Mathew

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 05:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: pa3hfu on August 01, 2018, 05:02:11 pmYou often find loads of Tek spares on Ebay and the other thing you ought to do is to google and see if there is a dedicated Tektronix user group and if there is, join it and then ask in that group, they usually have loads of parts floating around between the members.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 05:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: pa3hfu on August 01, 2018, 05:02:11 pmPart number is 366-0772-00.Best bet is look for that part on google and eBay. Qservice don’t have any left and Sphere don’t either who are my usual sources.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:42:54 pm
content: You can also ask in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-new-test-equipment-repair-parts-hp-agilent-tektronix-fluke-etc/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:32:26 pm
content: Coincidence! The foreground of the photo of the replaced chan1+2 connectors and old trigger connector looks identical to yours.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-TDS-210-mainboard-PCB-replacement-679-3546-01/173416381967?hash=item28606bfe0f%3Ag%3AIJcAAOSwc15bTi%7Ef&_sacat=0&_nkw=tds210&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xtds210.TRS0

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on August 01, 2018, 08:32:26 pmYep, I saw that as well, it reinforces my point about just how little the Ext trigger jack is used, this shows what is likely to be the original BNC as is bd139's likely to be the original as well.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 11:49:06 pm
content: Yeah it says refurbished so they probably did what I did£50 for a replacement brain isn’t bad money actually.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 04:29:48 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2018, 06:18:46 pmLOL... Iknewit was niggling at you... just like it did me. While I generally agree with the "First, do no harm" Hippocratic Oath tack towards repair, one thing that I've learned the hard way is that it is very hard to clean a crusty BNC so it doesn't still FEEL crusty & crunchy. If I were in there for any reason, I'd seriously think about doing them all just to get that smooooove on.Since you're already replacing the two, I woulda never even thought twice and just done the third along with. I've done the strap-reinforcement trick a few times myself on other gear, though. "Crude, but effective." as Mr Spock would say.The Wittig probes are damn good value for the money; reasonably decent quality, cheap enough that you could afford to chuck 'em instead of fix them when you break them, and even the cheap 100MHz W201s will compensate down to match the oddball 13pF/15pF that Tek used on older stuff. A shame they went out of business a few years ago. Does your guy still have any W202s? They've been pretty scarce for a while now.Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2018, 06:18:46 pmAs I said before, it's as much a matter of filling a Fluke-colored hole as it is needing a meter at this point; also, a need to gripe about it as I experience another bout of "The one that got away" syndrome, seeing several fixer-upper 189s that sold over the last couple months for $60-100.In all honesty, what I need more probably is a DE-5000...Quote from: Specmaster on August 01, 2018, 07:45:11 amBlasphemer.Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 08:41:16 amOh, good lord... I used to deal with that several times a week when I worked in the AV lab. Cassete consoles, phonographs, TV carts, everything had effing 1/4" phono jacks on them. We had these distribution blocks in every room; sixteen 1/4" phono jacks in every block. One or two per table. Those had no bottom to the jacks, and I'd find everything you can imagine rattling around in the bottom of them; sometime literally packed full so you couldn't get anything more in them.Pencils, lollipop sticks, crayons, Pockys, peanuts, cigarette butts, gummies...mnem

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 07:44:02 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on August 02, 2018, 04:29:48 amCould always use a small tin of yellow paint on the red bumper

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 08:03:58 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2018, 11:49:06 pmYes, not a bad price. I did wonder briefly if it would be worth getting it and hooking up a PSU and LCD, however with all the front panel controls it would soon get messy and not cost-effective.BTW, you might want to check that yours has had the ground safety recall carried out...https://www.tek.com/service/safety/tds210-tds220. IIRC it was something to do with the mains ground connection running to the BNC shells via a thin PCB trace. I'm sure applying the the fix to bypass it is quite obvious.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 08:24:47 am
content: Checked the serial number on mine against the list and it has been recalled and had the modification carried out, thanks for sharing the info on here.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 09:38:49 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on August 02, 2018, 04:29:48 amDefinitely. I tried to clean the thing and it won't so another BNC is arriving todayQuote from: mnementh on August 02, 2018, 04:29:48 amUnfortunately only the W201's are available in any reasonable quantity now. We have one eBay seller here who will do them for £13 a pair which is nothing for decent probes. I am slightly worried he's going to run out at some point as I've been buying them for years. I should probably grab a few pairs. At that price you can walk away with 8 probes for the price of one Tek probe.Quote from: mnementh on August 02, 2018, 04:29:48 amReminds me of thisQuote from: Gyro on August 02, 2018, 08:03:58 amMine is a later revision than the recalled ones. It looks like they modified the design so the entire ground plane is much larger and stitched.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 12:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 01, 2018, 07:45:11 amYep, polishing it first is the way to go, replacing it for no good reason other than to play with the Metcal is pointless,But it's playing with his Metcal!!!!! Go stand with your nose in the corner and think about what you said.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 03:50:44 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on August 02, 2018, 12:00:20 pmExactly; the man is a blasphemer.Quote from: bd139 on August 02, 2018, 09:38:49 amOh jeez... when I was working in my buddy's boneyard as a kid, we did a motor swap on a Trans-Am for a guy with a supposedly known-good motor from the yard. Got it all installed, buttoned up, full of coolant; we were confident it would just start up & run as we transferred HEI ignition and carburetor from the original, which ran like a watch but had the usual Pontiac 400 rod knock. Tried for over an hour to get it to run, but it would just wheeze and huff. Had plenty of gas, hot spark, timing we even checked with a light.Finally we gave up, figuring must be burnt valves (which was common as well in this early unleaded engine); so I started to tear it down to swap the heads over. When I lifted the intake off, it was JUST LIKE THAT VIDEO... a squirrel had gotten in there while the car was in the field and stored his hickory nuts for the winter in the intake.A few minutes with a shop-vac, some new intake gaskets and it was up & running; purred like a kitten until the fan clutch warmed up. Then it ROARED!We figured either one of the yard regulars had robbed it for the carb, or the owner had "made a deal widdaondderguy" that was more swappery than cash.mnem*off to claim a mystery package at the PO*

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 05:34:51 pm
content: Hmm, something is going awry here I'm being credited with quotes that I never made, nobody ever credits me with anything useful, like money in the bank

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 06:03:29 pm
content: It’s a forum quoting fail.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 06:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 02, 2018, 06:03:29 pmfixed.mnem

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 07:05:01 pm
content: Thats a pretty full bag of them..........run..........take cover............

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 11:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 02, 2018, 07:05:01 pmThat is actually my real life kit that I use; 90% of my calls are easily handled with what's in that bag. For other calls I add my cordless drill/impact bag and/or my networking bag.Maybe one client in a hundred notices the little tag... I just waggle my finger and make a sly grin & "shush" gesture when they do.mnemIt doesn't eat much...

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 12:11:44 am
content: Don't look now but I feel that paint brush may have expired and needs urgent attention or maybe replacing

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 12:21:36 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 03, 2018, 12:11:44 amNaaah... that's the one I use for all my grunge work; it always looks like hell until it gets so filthy I can't clean it. You can't see the 2" natural bristle paintbrush under it that I use for dusting after I knock all the nasty stuff loose with that 3/$1 one.mnemThe right tool for the job.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 04:05:52 pm
content: Quick note. Recap list for the supply.Only for supply labelled SW422 by Ault Korea. Nice liitle power supply. Really good quality bit of kit.Code:C= capacitance (uF)V= voltage (Volts)T= Temperature (oC)D= case diameter (mm)P= Pitch (mm)B= BrandS= SeriesZ= purposeC3 -> C=68 V=450 T=105 D=22 P=10 B=Nippon S=KMG Z="primary filter"C6 -> C=22 V=35 T=105 D=5 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="primary SMPS controller filter"C10 -> C=2.2 V=50 T=105 D=5 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary TL431 feedback decoupling"C11,C12,C13 -> C=2200 V=6.3 T=105 D=12 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary filter"C14 -> C=2200 V=6.3 T=105 D=10 P=5 B=ELNA S=RSH Z="secondary filter"C15 -> C=470 V=6.3 T=105 D=10 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary filter"C16 -> C=22 V=35 T=105 D=5 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary decoupling"C17 -> C=4.7 V=50 T=105 D=5 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary decoupling"C21 -> C=47 V=16 T=105 D=5 P=5 B=Nippon S=SXE Z="secondary HV osc decoupling"Notes:- Nippon KMG 200mA ripple current specified- Nippon SXE/ELNA RSH are low ESR

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 05:31:19 pm
content: Does this mean that you're doing a fully recap of the PSU on the 210 then? Mine (when it arrives) is older than yours so I suspect I ought to consider re-capping that as well. It seems impossible that the 210 has been around for 21 years but that what the data suggests?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 05:39:15 pm
content: I’m replacing the secondary filter caps only. There’s a little bit of noise on low mV settings. Primary and ancillary caps are all probably fine.210 has indeed been around for 21 years. Mine is 18 years old looking at the date codes.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 05:46:47 pm
content: Will the Rigols etc be around that long and still be working like new?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:12:10 pm
content: I doubt it. See:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-red-screen-of-death/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 04, 2018, 05:46:47 pmQuote from: bd139 on August 04, 2018, 06:12:10 pmThere is (or was) a difference between minimizing production cost with a professional industrial environment target market, and minimizing production cost full stop.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:28:53 pm
content: Exactly that.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 04, 2018, 06:12:10 pmInteresting. Bad flash memory.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:31:39 pm
content: Yep. It’s also BGA packaged so BER straight away.Also one TDS210 encoder cost more than all the encoders on a DS1054Z

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:50:27 pm
content: Oof! BGA. Not a repair for the hobbyist.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 08:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 04, 2018, 05:39:15 pmPlease take before and after recap pics.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:13:45 pm
content: I shall indeed. SOP here. Probably nothing will change but will be interesting either way

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 04, 2018, 10:13:45 pmYeah, just a little sanity check for you.Do measure the old caps too for ESR and uF.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:35:19 pm
content: That should be interesting....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:38:47 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 04, 2018, 10:35:19 pmIf PSU rail ripple are still within spec I expect nothing will change.....traces will still show some noise on mV/div settings. It's a DSO and you can't get away from that.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:46:53 pm
content: I can with my Fluke 3390B, just dial up a high number for the averaging, smooth as a babies bum

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:50:44 pm
content: Yes I expect noise at lower signal levels.However I don't expect a roughly 15KHz signalYou can change the persistence and the averaging on these scopes. That does indeed make the noise go away mathematically.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:58:18 pm
content: Straight DSOAveraging switched on

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 11:13:15 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 04, 2018, 10:50:44 pmIs the PSU switcher frequency 15 KHz ? Seems a bit low but not outside the realms of possibility.QuoteMore modern DSO's have even more tools to clean up traces however when when talking about displayed noise we should only compare apples with apples and only use normal input settings.Sometimes that's impossible for low mV/div settings as many DSO's go into 20 MHz BW limit mode automatically to reduce displayed noise.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 11:17:04 pm
content: Not sure what the switcher frequency is actually. Point is to eliminate. Plus caps are slap bang in the middle of capacitor plague criteria which worries me as I’ve had a couple of failures so far from around then.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 02:50:51 pm
content: Few years ago I recovered a TDS210 too, it failed calibration and the calibration lab asked over $600 to replace the main board so it was decommissioned. The traces were about half screen wide with no probes attached and the screen was very dim. I took it for free, I replaced all the caps in the power supply with good quality Nichicon PW series caps and the CCFL with LED strip and now is my go to scope even though I have a Tek 2445B, a Rigol DS1054Z and a Hitachi. I like it a lot.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 02:54:24 pm
content: Nice jobGood idea with the LEDs as well. I imagine that would increase the reliability considerably.This is my go to scope as well now.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 03:04:24 pm
content: Yours seems to have a good CCFL still. Mine was barely lighting up and was turning pink.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 03:11:16 pm
content: Yeah this has very few power cycles on it and is a relatively late model. It is not quite as bright as a new CCFL would be but good enough. I actually have some of the correct CCFL tubes floating around somewhere from another repair I did so will hang onto them if it goes. I may look at LEDs then if I can be bothered

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 03:11:50 pm
content: I'm hoping that mine when it arrives is going to be my go to scope seeing is will be (hopefully) right in front of me on my bench, my other ones are way to big to fit on my bench for anything apart repairing them.I purchased it on the 1st August and Ebay is not showing it as being dispatched and the seller promised me that he would dispatch it today by Hermes on a 48hr service, will it happen and more to the freaking point is will it arrive undamaged? Knowing what problems you have with Hermes I'm kind of super nervous about the whole thing right now. The seller had stated in his Ebay advert that it would dispatched by Royal Mail 2nd class (meaning Parcelforce 48) and had he done that, it would have been with me by now.I took a chance on it knowing what his comms was like, all capitals and poor grammar (not that mine is a whole better at times) but hey I seriously thought that having gotten hold of my money within minutes of the auction ending that he would have had the good grace to dispatch it quicker then this, hell I know I always manage to dispatch my sales either the same day or within 24 hours unless its a weekend.Edit :Thought for the day, are these software upgradeable to higher bandwidths or what?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 03:35:56 pm
content: Yes similar situation. I actually like this so much I listed my DS1054Z this morning. I'd rather have a TDS210 on the bench and 300 smackers in my pocket (or actually half that FT-818 paid off). The FT-818 makes a pretty good spectrum analyser I found as well.Worst case you'll get a free scope or money back. Virtually no risk in eBay purchases these days which is good. I reckon he got to the "print postage label" thing on ebay and saw that Hermes was cheaper so decided to pocket the difference in cost.Good question on the 100MHz software upgrade. If I ever get my hands on a TDS220 I will compare the two in detail. I imagine they're probably the same hardware. Would be interesting if you could hack a TDS-210 into a TDS-220.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 04:30:28 pm
content: I thought I felt something stabbing me in the back...I still don't regret the 1054Z; at least at the prices the TDS210-220 are bringing over here, even DOA.mnem

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 04:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 06, 2018, 03:35:56 pmI like them both, I don't feel like selling any of them. I have four now and if I keep collecting scopes like that squirrel collected acorns , soon, when someone opens the basement door, it will pour with scopes.AFAIK the 210 and 220 have different ADCs.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 04:56:01 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on August 06, 2018, 04:30:28 pmThey're usually pretty expensive here. I got luckyQuote from: Miti on August 06, 2018, 04:47:13 pmYou sound like a prime candidate to join the "Test Equipment Anonymous" thread... lots of us scope addicts in there!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 05:10:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 06, 2018, 04:56:01 pmI'm not a scopoholic... or I didn't get to admit it yet.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 05:24:51 pm
content: Give it time

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 05:27:16 pm
content: Its a gentle slope at first and then suddenly, splosh you are up to your knicky knacky dodars in scopes and then your a scopoholic for sure.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 06:16:40 pm
content: I listed one once and next day I was in withdrawal without even selling it.I'm not making the same mistake again.

author: pa3hfu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:19:48 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on August 06, 2018, 02:50:51 pmDid you make a list of capacitors you replaced?I did not yet open my ('new') TDS210 because I don't know how to remove the TFT-module. He seems to be very attached...Mathew

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: pa3hfu on August 06, 2018, 07:19:48 pmYes I did. See post here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds210-teardown-and-bnc-replacement/msg1722653/#msg1722653I am only replacing secondary filter caps. They haven't arrived yet.I haven't looked at removing the TFT module.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:46:30 pm
content: Quote from: pa3hfu on August 06, 2018, 07:19:48 pmNo, I didn't but BD did. You don't need to touch the LCD unless you want to replace the back light. Otherwise you remove the back cover and you have access to the power supply and the main board. Don't remove the front cover.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:56:10 pm
content: I have tried to post the service manual here but it is too large for the system so if anyone wants a copy, PM me with your email address and I'll gladly email a copy to you.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:59:05 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 06, 2018, 07:25:46 pmSince I too have a TDS210, I perused the capacitor list. FWIW, Nippon Chemi-Con have a list of replacement types here...http://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/catalog/aluminum_unify.htmlThey recommend KY or LXV to replace SXE and type KMG still seems to be active, though good luck finding a 68uF 450V specimen.I wonder why they used a different brand for one of the 2200/6.3V, other than the ELNA being a bit skinnier...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 08:10:30 pm
content: Quote from: orin on August 06, 2018, 07:59:05 pmKMQ is a suitable replacement for KMG apparently. Has twice ripple current rating. There are 36 in stock here for 68uF 450V at RS. I didn't bother ordering a replacement for that. They usually last much longer in that role.I think the ELNA one being smaller was a fuck up. The board footprint was too small for the Nippon ones in that placement when installed. The KY ones are 10mm diameter so can be used in all footprints fine. I ordered KY's as replacements. I had low ESR panasonic caps in stock for most of the rest.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 08:36:37 pm
content: Don't bother replacing the 450V one. They rarely fail.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 03:08:41 am
content: Quote from: Miti on August 06, 2018, 05:10:12 pmQuote from: Miti on August 06, 2018, 06:16:40 pmSpoken like a true scopoholic in denial.It's OK, Miti. Really, it is.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 03:11:38 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on August 06, 2018, 04:30:28 pmLikewise. The only niggle I have with the 1054 is the sluggishness when moving the trace position. But, it's not something I do a lot of. Overall, I'm still glad I got it.If I do get a hold of one of these lunchbox Teks at a good price, I might try triggering one of the scopes off the other to get more channels. In fact, I should probably try that with the AD2 to get analog + digital.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 08:24:29 am
content: The 1054Z certainly fills a market hole better than any other device. Got to complain about the protocol decoding support though. My clone logic analyser from aliexpress is much better.They do a TDS224 as well which is 100MHz 4 channels.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 04:42:52 pm
content: My noise floor on Channel 1 @2mV div and 100uS is (with averaging 16 turned on) 883KHz and 640uV so it seems to be quieter than yours but at far higher frequency?, No probes attached.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 05:16:06 pm
content: Im not convinced there is anything wrong with mine yet. Interestingly I can tune into that noise in my FT450 and it still occurs when the scope is turned off. Hmm.I will turn everything in the house off one by one when I get two mins and see where it’s coming from.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 07:02:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 06, 2018, 02:54:24 pmCould you guys expand on the why's of why you like this scope so much as compared to..... I only know a little about digital scopes and sometimes scopes similar to this show up locally cheap. Replacing a handfull of caps, as long as they haven't blown all over the place, is not that overwhelming. Thanks.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 07:19:56 pm
content: Small, light, quiet, easy interface, nothing to go wrong, well put together.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 08:42:30 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 08, 2018, 07:19:56 pmPerformance, math & measurement functions, features?? Are you giving much up for those conveniences? I do understand your point. I have a TEK 475 sitting next to a TEK 2225. If I just want to look at a signal, 99 times out of 100 I turn on the 2225. The 475 is a beautiful scope, but the 2225 is easy/simple. If I want to "play" I turn on the 475. Thanks

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:00:13 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 08, 2018, 04:42:52 pmPic ?Averaging OFF.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:05:05 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 08, 2018, 09:00:13 pmI'll do a pic later, but I put averaging on to get a average value of ripple and frequency as with it off it jumps all other place.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:10:26 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on August 08, 2018, 08:42:30 pmI love the 475s. Wish I hadn’t sold mineI’m not sacrificing much feature wise, comparing to DS1054Z. I lose some measurements, memory depth and FFT really. It’s got cursors and I’ve got a brain, mem depth is nice but not essential and FFT sucks balls on every low end digital scope. What I mainly lose was £300.Ideally I’d have a 2465B on standby and the TDS210 (or a 220) on the bench.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 08, 2018, 09:00:13 pmOk then, here's the pic with the same settings but averaging switched off.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 12:18:11 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 08, 2018, 09:40:31 pmIf it looks similar at a slow timebase setting, say 10ms/div, then its just normal open input DSO noise.You could also place a 50 ohm or a short on the inputs to get a better idea of internal noise if in fact there is much.Have you checked the PSU rail's ripple meets spec ?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 12:28:43 am
content: Ch1 set to 2mv/div and 10ms produces much the same trace but with the frequency now averaging somewhere around 6Khz and pp of 1.6mv.I have not as yet opened this up to look inside I'll do that tomorrow and see what the actual rail ripple is.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 01:03:31 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 09, 2018, 12:28:43 amLooks as expected without the Trigger level being within the waveform.QuoteOptional of course and only for peace of mind.But it does offer the benefit of spotting swelled or leaking caps, sus solder joints and other things that don't look right.Welcome to the world of DSO's, use and enjoy .....and watch that trigger level.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 01:39:47 am
content: Trigger level was repositioned to the 0 line and nothing changed at all, zero changes in the waveform or the readings.Its all stripped down ready for ripple measurement in the morning, had a good visual check on the caps etc and everything looks smick and clean apart from a couple of miniature cobwebs in it, all cleaned out now.Chips used in it all have the date code of 1997 week 48 and the caps are looking OK, no bulging or leakage anywhere, infact everything looks just as you would expect it to on an instrument with so few power cycles in its 20.5 years life.Tomorrow I'll hook this up via my isolation tranny and use the Fluke 3390B to check the voltages and ripple as per manual, or there again I could make use of my Brymen BM867 as it will show me what the ripple component of the rails is.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 01:50:22 am
content: Mine looks pretty much like Specmaster's.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 01:53:31 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 09, 2018, 01:39:47 amUse both as always try to catch a piece of kit out !Fluke CRO will always be best for SMPS ripple measurement.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 02:07:10 am
content: Quote from: Old Printer on August 08, 2018, 07:02:10 pmIn my hobby activity, 99% of the time I only need to see slow, simple waveforms like a PIC or AVR clock, PWM for servo control, ripple or overshot on the output of a switching power supply, etc. so a Tek 210 is more than adequate. It is robust, quiet, small, it came at the low price of... free. And it has that hard to explain feeling of vintage. Is like driving a vintage car. But when it comes to special trigger, zoom, FFT, I like my Rigol. I would like a Tek or an Agilent better but I can't afford them.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 02:23:27 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 09, 2018, 01:53:31 amJust did a quick run through with the Brymen and the results that gave are;Pin 1&2 4.997v with 4mv ripplePin 3 GRDPin 4 -4.300v 4mv ripplePin 5 -23.672v and 20mv ripplePin 6 GRDPin 7 should be 1.4Pk Pk on a square wave, I'll check that in the morning but I suspect that going to OK as I read .877V on the BM867 which is a true RMS meter.I'm off to bed now to try and get some sleep in this heatwave that we are having over here.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 02:32:30 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 09, 2018, 02:23:27 amWho's she?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 09:56:49 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 09, 2018, 12:18:11 amOk, today I have checked the PSU rails using the Fluke PM3390B and all of the rails as far as voltage goes meet the published specification but the manual does not state what the ripple should be anywhere that I can see in the manual. But using a probe 1:1 I'm getting a peak to peak ripple of around 10mV on the rails and given that the actual ripple will vary according to the loading of the circuit I'm wondering what the validity of doing a ripple test is. I suspect that maybe if it showed something in the magnitude of say 100mVpp then I might have a problem.Does anyone actually what the ripple for the smps in the 210 should be at all?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 10:19:10 am
content: It's less of a problem than it looks because the lines all have LC pi filters on them as they come in to sensitive parts of the circuit.Have traced the noise in mine to an external source. Tassimo coffee machine power supply. Popped cap on the secondary side. Still works though which is pretty cool!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 10:29:01 am
content: Thanks, I was beginning to think I was I on a wild goose chase as even with the inputs shorted to ground there was no difference in the on screen noise whatsoever so it was not an airborne noise or open input noise at all. I suspect that it is present on the mains supply because we use so many smps units in the modern home these days, phone chargers, LED drivers, even monitors etc use them so it is possibly coming via the mains and all I can do is tour the house pulling the plugs on as many items I can think of to see if it has any effect.Once you know how to get into it, its a doodle, just 2 screws and is very cleverly put together internally as well, neat. I love it already.