FX-888D or PS-900 ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 07:02:16 am
content: Hello.Where I live, the Hakko FX-888D and the OKI/Metcal PS-900 cost about the same. Which should I pick up?I do mostly SMD stuff and use frequency would be between that of a hobbyist and professional(say 2-3 days a week). I'd primary use leaded solder. This is a one-time investment and apart from tips, I'd expect the station to last me a long time.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 07:21:53 am
content: Do you need/want the ability to control the temperature (can help with areas/components that draw more heat off than usual)?Which one has more readily available supplies/consumables in your location?What is the cost of the consumables between the two?Answers to these questions might help you narrow down your decision.

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 07:35:27 am
content: Thanks for the pointers. I haven't used a temperature-controlled station thus far. My 'fire-starter'(and a bit of patience) has been able to handle most things I've thrown at it, including lead-free soldering/de-soldering. I understand that the Metcal is able to regain lost heat rather quickly, although it is fixed at a particular temperature. I was wondering if someone who has experience with both would give me their thoughts.As far as consumables are concerned, both are rather scarce. Apart from the official distributors, there's very little availability. I can always import these though, so it's not a major concern. Pricing isn't a big issue either.I'd ideally just get the Hakko if it's offered at US retail prices, but it's just under $200(with taxes and delivery) here and I was wondering if at that price-point the Metcal might be a better investment. Around these circles, if there's one brand more popular than Hakko, it seems to be Metcal, although I don't know how this lower-end model sizes up.

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 04:26:40 pm
content: I have Oki PS-900 and Hakko 936 but I think the handpiece is exactly the same as FX-888.I didn't really like any of them, so if I buy a solder station I would choose something other.But if you want to buy one of them, I vote Oki PS-900.-shorter* handpiece, and much comfortable to use it.-tip change is really easy and fast.-heat up time (and I think recovery time too) is shorter.* shorter mean: the distance of your hand and hot point.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 07:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: vzoole on March 31, 2013, 04:26:40 pmI prefer this as well, and went with a Weller WD1 for this reason (FX-888 wasn't out, nor was the FX-951).Good station, but between Weller's QC being all over the place and expensive replacement parts (i.e. iron alone is more than an entire FX-888D here in the US), combined with newer stations competing with it, I'd take a different route if I were buying today. Today I'd go with a JBC if budget weren't a concern, otherwise a Hakko FX-951 (both have newer heating technology than the standard hand pieces used with the WD series).

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 08:24:24 pm
content: vzoole, Thanks for your reply. The short grip to tip length is definitely a big plus for me. Why don't you like the PS-900 and with a USD 200 budget, what will you recommend?I'm leaning towards the Metcal now, but I'm wondering if the lack of temperature control, as nanofrog pointed earlier, would be an issue at all when working with sensitive smd components.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 08:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: jenben on March 31, 2013, 08:24:24 pmFrom my perspective, I see the OKi/Metcal as suited for production rather than prototyping due to consumables.Specifically, costs.With a Metcal, you'd require multiple tips of the same profile/dimensions when you get into situations you require more heat. So instead of say 4x chisels of different sizes, you might multiply that by 2 or 3 (i.e. 600F, 700F, 800F tips IIRC), so your consumables costs go up to handle the same range of what can be done vs. a temperature controlled station, where you'd only need to turn up the temp when needed, then back down to prolong tip life (and keep it clean & tinned of course).So assuming the stations themselves are similarly priced (and of suitable performance), the temperature controllable versions will come in cheaper.

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 10:49:12 pm
content: Quote from: jenben on March 31, 2013, 08:24:24 pmI jut simple do not feel "wow" (not world of warcraft) when I use PS-900. And it have switch mode power supply, I don't think reliable for long time. It is a high quality hobby station, not a professional.I recommend an old, used but high-end station:-1st: (my favorite) JBC AD2700.-2nd: Hakko FX-951 (be careful... ebay and ali is full with low quality copy)-3rd: Metcal RFG-30

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 11:30:20 pm
content: If you want a soldering iron, and price is no problem, I recommend the FX-888D, because Hakko generally has good quality products that are ment to last, my uncle has had the FX-888 (analog) for two years, and it still works.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2013, 11:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: vzoole on March 31, 2013, 10:49:12 pmJBC would be my first choice these days as well. Unfortunately, they're a tad expensive, even for a professional station (power + stand in a single unit is easier on the wallet than separate power and stand though). Still more expensive than a Hakko FX-951 or Weller WD1002 here in the US, but worth it IMHO.

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 02:05:47 am
content: Another vote for the JBC. As for the metcal if you get the 350deg tips I don't see why you would need any different temp tips anyway for most things. With these high thermal recovery type technologies you don't need to crank up the heat to solder large metal things, they just pump out the heat as soon as it is sucked away by the large things.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 02:50:56 am
content: I was trying to be good and not violate the OP's budget and not even mention JBC. But since others have, its +2 for the JBC. They really are that good. (Even Dave has seen the light)

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 04:03:51 am
content: Quote from: robrenz on April 01, 2013, 02:50:56 amIf you think about it in terms of how much use you will get from it, the much better longevity of the tips and the fact that it is many times beter and a pleasure to use, spending a couple hundred more dollars for it divided my the number of years of use you will get from it. A JBC station becomes a more desirable choice. (at least that was how I managed to rationalise it when I decided to get one).

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 01:22:42 pm
content: Guys, thanks for all the JBC suggestions. It does indeed look pretty nifty, but the base model seems to cost ~USD 500(without taxes, shipping etc.) and there's no realistic way of me getting these second-hand locally and importing second-hand units doesn't make sense either, due to prohibitive shipping charges as well as import duties.I'd definitely invest in one if this contributed to my primary source of income, but at the moment, I'm more of a semi-professional/hobbyist. I'm just making the jump from a regular 40W general-purpose iron and from what I understand, a temperature controlled-station by itself would seem to make a large difference. I don't even have a 'scope at the moment, so I'd rather save and get a semi-decent 'scope than invest in a high end soldering station which I probably wouldn't be able to appreciate.I'll try to negotiate a better deal for the Hakko, but give non-US prices reported here and elsewhere, < USD 200 seems pretty fair for the 240V version with an official warranty. Heck it's listed at a even higher price in Japan. The Metcal seems great too, but the Hakko has a larger fanbase and hence consumables/parts are probably going to be easier to get from non-official sources. The short tip to grip length is a major plus, but in terms of heating up and down, at the moment, ~5 seconds and ~30 seconds doesn't make much of a difference to me. I don't change tips that often, so the downtime there is not a big issue either.Thanks to nanofrog, vzoole and the others for your inputs! Hopefully in a few years I'll get my hands on a JBC station.Cheers.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 06:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: jenben on April 01, 2013, 01:22:42 pmYou might want to consider a US version (whatever station you want), shipping & VAT, and a step-up transformer to see if it's cheaper than buying a 230V version.Hakko seller that ships overseas:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Read-out-Adjustable-Temp-Soldering-Station-/380553856557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589ac7062dExample of a step-up transformer (300W should do):http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-W-Watt-Step-Up-Down-Voltage-Converter-Transformer-/260617375912?pt=Travel_Adapters_Converters&hash=item3cae0190a8Might be better to source the transformer locally. Not sure if it's financially viable for you, but has worked for some IIRC, so worth a look IMHO.Hope this helps, and good luck.

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 07:52:11 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 01, 2013, 06:34:39 pmThat was my first option and I considered the same seller! I already have a 100W Step-down transformer which I believe can be used as the Hakko is rated at 90W. But with Shipping( ~$70) and customs (~$20), it's the same price as getting one locally. And I also get a 1yr. warranty to boot.Quote from: nanofrog on April 01, 2013, 06:34:39 pmThanks!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 09:53:24 pm
content: Quote from: jenben on April 01, 2013, 07:52:11 pmThe 300W figure was to account for spikes/startup currents (3 - 4x nominal draw of the end device/s plugged in) and shall we say "optimistic specifications".Shame it didn't pan out.

author: jenben
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 10:51:34 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 01, 2013, 09:53:24 pmAh, makes sense. Thanks for your inputs through this thread!

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 11:39:55 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 31, 2013, 08:53:07 pmWhere do you require more heat? You should use bigger, more massive tip instead of insane temps. (and higher wattage iron)Compared to my old Hakko the Metcal has 10 times better response time so there is really no need to crank the temp up as the soldering station is able to response to increased power demand much sooner and the tip temperature does not drop much.I think I use 0.8mm chisel like 99% of the time in my metcal and 1% of the time longer sharp-nose tip for tiniest smd parts. Sometimes I wish for more power when soldering square feet of thick copper sheet but higher temp would not help anything in that case as available power is already maxed out.You should be able to handle all of your soldering work with 3 tips maximum, all "medium" 700F temperature. AFAIK I am using 700F tips on my metcal and they last for years even if I forget the soldering iron on for week or two sometimes....I would not hesitate choosing OKI if the price of the FX-888 is only slightly cheaper.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 12:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: mzzj on April 02, 2013, 11:39:55 amI do match the tip size to the pad/hole, but there are instances that it can still fall a bit short (not enough mass for example). I don't run into this often, but have encountered it on occasion with things that draw/sink a lot of heat from the tip (solder cup connectors, ground planes, ... types of situations). But in those instances, I can turn up the temp a bit to make the joint, then lower it again immediately after (preset buttons on the control panel of my station make this very easy).80W is the max iron I can use with the station I have, and the heating element is part of the iron, not the tip.