Developed First Product - Now What? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: scott-williams-113
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 06:16:29 am
content: Hi there,I'm a recent graduate from uni in E.E. and an extremely passionate electronics enthusiast.I've been obsessed with Dave's videos on selling hardware, panelising boards, optimising P.C.B. design, etc. and have developed what I believe to be a cheap, small, and useful product for both hobbyist as well as most small-scale electronics designs.This is the board here:Essentially, it's a (2.5 - 12V) input (+5V, -5V) output buck-boost regulator, design in a nice breadboardable or PCB mountable package. I've gone to the effort of doing efficiency calculations, creating a datasheet, getting an assembly and fabrication quote for 1000 units, etc. in order to see if this is a viable thing I could maybe sell.Now, I've gotten to the stage where I'm trying to sell it. I've spoken to a few (Core Electronics, Adafruit, etc.) who say they believe the product has potential but they aren't really taking on new stock at the moment (maybe they're lying, who knows).So I've come here (long time watcher of Dave, practically first-time poster) to seek some advice. I know there are a lot of things I haven't considered, but for now I just wanted to seek advice on maybe potential distributors - as there's no point putting any further effort in if no one actually wants the product.Thanks,SW

author: scott-williams-113
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:00:15 am
content: If I changed the design I suppose. While my one and that one have the same output current capabilities, mine works as a buck as well and has a wider input voltage range. Surely it doesn't come down to just cost, however.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:08:26 am
content: Or 1562 othershttps://www.digikey.com/products/en/power-supplies-board-mount/dc-dc-converters/922?k=&pkeyword=&pv1525=62&pv1526=2&FV=ffe0039a%2C114016f%2C11401ab%2C11401c9%2C1140050&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25Seriously, though. You need to be clear about what the specs are of your product and why you think it would be better than existing solutions (your 'USP').

author: scott-williams-113
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:18:18 am
content: I've gotten the ripple down to about 20mV with the sized capacitors I've used (except at higher currents obviously, but this obviously isn't a solution for someone wanting heaps of power anyway). The solution you've said obviously sounds ideal - this was legitimately just something I developed for myself when I needed a battery powered, microcontroller + ADC, DAC, Op-Amp etc. sort of embedded system (a large portion of stuff) where I just needed a handy negative rail, rather than having a 2.5V virtual ground and having crap-all swing on the op-amps.As for the "1562 others", crush my idea if you wantbut if you made that argument then why are there 1562 to begin with? Why isn't there just 1 for every case? Because different designs are for different solutions I suppose. Like the first few results that come up, those black-box ones which I've used from muRata, have like 100mA out on both rails compared to this one with 1A out (powering a decent sized project).Legitimately everyone in my graduating class I showed said this would be great for practically every breadboard project they have ever done, maybe I'm wrong though

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:18:30 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on October 30, 2017, 06:50:41 amFluke better quit making multimeters. There's 8 dollar ones on eBay.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:32:58 am
content: It doesn't have anything to do with 'crushing' your idea. If anything, I hope you got something good there and it will be a winner.But you still need to put your design next to others that exist and question it's claim to existence. It's just common bussiness sense and if you are considering making a thousand, you need some of that.As to why 1562 others exist: again, check the specifications. They will cover a range of applications, but there will also be companies that simply wanted a 'me too' product. They may have dozens of marketing and other reasons for this but *you* have only two: either make a buck or get some experiences under your belt (in which case I suppose you'd still prefer not to loose *too* much money on it).

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:35:38 am
content: Do you have any specs on this? Efficiency? Maximum load currents?I agree with others - unless you've got some good logistics scheme, the shipped price will be too high. You may sell a few on Tindie, but it is not going to be a bank maker, for sure.

author: scott-williams-113
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 07:43:26 am
content: I've attached a rough datasheet I've made for it.I'd like to think I've done decent logistics work on it so far. Some things like:- I've used SMT only and placed all parts on one side of the board, for cheaper assembly cost;- I've had a batch of 20 assembled by the manufacturer to make sure the assembling process didn't make the boards not function vs hand soldering;- I've done the exact same logistics stuff with cost, shipping, handling, testing (made a load-test jig), etc. Dave has done in his series of videos;- I'm willing to only make like 1$ profit on each board, just so I can at least get back the time I've put into it and sell it cheaper.There's obviously more to it. But I'm just trying to get some experience I guess.All I was after from this post was some common distributors hehe

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:24:43 am
content: You can try to sell it yourself on Tindiehttps://hackaday.com/2015/08/05/tindie-becomes-a-part-of-the-hackaday-family/There is also a chat room on Hackaday, where you can talk with people that are already selling their boards using Tindie.Hackaday have 2 main sites, one is Hackaday.com, with articles about general making, the other is Hackaday.io, where each user can post projects. To access the chat room you need to go to this projecthttps://hackaday.io/project/5373-hack-chatand click on "Join this project's team" to join to the project. Once you are added to that project you can go to the "Hack Chat" room:https://hackaday.io/messages/room/2369Hack Chat room is for makers and other general chats about electronics and software, it is not about cracking computers and programs, so please don't ask about computer hacking there. It's only about making stuff.I have no idea if selling your own boards worth the effort, most probably not, unless you live in Shenzhen maybe, but good luck!

author: pilleya
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:25:09 am
content: For shipping overseas the cheapest option is posting them in $3 letters with AusPost.Considering that you will only sell 1000 over a long period of time, why not hand assemble them? Get yourself a decent stencil and a $30 kmart/target hot plate. Then use a vacuum component placer to help you place the components quickly.Also you really need to be selling at a 200-300% profit margin if you want it to be worth your time, so if you want $1 profit is the entire thing going to cost like $1.50?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 09:14:58 am
content: First off, congratulations on making a handy little PCB, *and* putting together quantitative specifications, a test jig, and at least looking into the costs of volume production. If you've just graduated, then you're already ahead in terms of commercial skills than many of your peers.This project will look good on a CV, and do bring a few examples to any job interviews you attend. Leave them behind as calling cards; they'll make sure you are remembered in a positive light. It's always good to be able to broaden your skill set and to demonstrate what you can do.Even though I design stuff for a living, some of the most worthwhile projects I've done have been those that I've done myself just to learn new skills. I didn't make a bean out of them directly, but the skills I've developed on a "me" project that never had to be commercially viable have been invaluable. So keep doing them whenever you feel they're worthwhile.But...Quote from: scott-williams-113 on October 30, 2017, 07:43:26 amThis is a real shame, and it's why I think you should consider drawing a line under it before you invest too much.Your time is worth a heck of a lot more than $1/unit for a handful of units. Doing your degree has meant expending a great deal of time and effort, and no small amount of money, and you owe it to yourself to capitalise on that. I'd be very surprised if you make a profit on a board like this, and even if you do, you'd probably have been better off in monetary terms flipping burgers.Treat this board as a learning exercise. The distributors you've spoken to have already given you a strong indication that they don't think they'd make any money out of it themselves, otherwise they'd have placed an order with you. "Not taking on stock" is a lame excuse; if they saw an opportunity, they'd take it.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 08:50:08 pm
content: :O That gold plated via between 0V and +5V might create solder bridge when soldering that header with soldering iron... I suppose, it will be done by customer/user

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 09:26:59 am
content: You can't simply compete from the Chinese on eBay. Unless you can bring the price down to cents. I could buy, 2 buck/boost converter of 5 and 10 volts output for 2$ and get the same results.Only way out of it, is , market it to parents, as a part of an education kit or Target since other some niche.There's are already hundreds of general purpose parts out therePersonally, I'll be willing to pay 20$ for it ,only if it was extremely efficient and certified mains voltage or car battery voltage to 5v.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 09:31:41 am
content: Quote from: Raj on November 05, 2017, 09:26:59 amI could buy a 10 dollar multimeter and get the same result too, yet Fluke is doing well.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 09:36:42 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 05, 2017, 09:31:41 amChinese multimeter can blow up in your hand and kill you. A chip driven at 12 volts doesn't kill you.People like my uncle will still keep on using class 2 Chinese meter for mains testing

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 09:41:28 am
content: Quote from: Raj on November 05, 2017, 09:36:42 amLet's look at DC-DC converter then. Digikey and Farnell are selling them in droves, for prices orders of magnitude higher than on eBay. Do you think that's because these people haven't heard of cheap Chinese sources?

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2017, 11:08:14 am
content: they are mostly high quality like the fluke.btw,they don't tell you, their sales figure.who knows how many of them got sold.my advice-if unable to sell in a market,sell in other markets.

author: SaintGimp
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 10:13:21 pm
content: I'll agree with most of the other posters and say that while this project is a good thing to put on your resume, you're never going to sell significant quantities or make any profit at all doing it.The forces against commercial potential:Impossible to compete against high-volume manufacturers on priceDifficult to compete against high-end manufacturers on qualityWrong product for the market (as others have said, designers who need positive and negative supplies usually need super-low noise too, i.e. linear regulators)But if you throw it up on Tindie and browbeat your friends into buying a couple dozen of them, then you've got something that looks pretty good on a resume/portfolio for an entry-level EE. I think it's worth doing for that reason alone, but there's really no way you're ever going to make any money from this product. It's too much of a commodity.(Edited to add:) The only niche angle where you might have a strong value proposition is in the breadboard-friendly form factor. After thinking about it a bit, I do think it would be useful to have something I could quickly grab and plunk down on a breadboard when I want to do quick op-amp prototypes or whatever. If you put it on Tindie, you'll want to heavily emphasize that angle. Forget the "as well as most small-scale electronics designs" part: anyone building a product of their own is either going to incorporate the supplies directly into their design or they're going to buy a module from a big manufacturer that will be cheaper and/or more reliable than what you can offer. The challenge is how do you get the very small market of dual-supply-breadboard-prototyping-hobbyists to find your specific product when it's buried on Tindie somewhere? That's a marketing question rather than an engineering question. Getting distributed by Adafruit or Sparkfun is the most obvious route to success but then you bump up against the "commodity" problem again; there are any number of manufacturers (including Adafruit or Sparkfun themselves) who can build it cheaper and/or better than you can. You're adding no application-specific knowledge here - literally any other manufacturer/distributor can design what you've designed if they're convinced that it's worthwhile to do so. They don't need you.