Local electricians puzzled - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:23:55 am
content: Several days ago, my grandmother smelled something unusual near the breaker panel in the garage. It was full of corrosion and things were falling apart. A week ago today, the electrician she hired replaced all the breakers and bus assemblies in all three panels. Today, just a week later, this is what it looks like. From the looks of it, one might assume nothing was replaced, however, the ones he removed are still sitting on the floor and she witnessed the new ones go in.There are a few mysteries. This is an interior wall with no plumbing and everything in the attic directly above is perfectly dry. There is no cold draft coming from the conduit, the panel enclosure is not cold and the metal does not seem to be collecting condensation. There is a sticky black goo coming from essentially every one of the wiring jackets. The white/yellow corrosion tastes salty and our first assumption was that the garage floor heat is putting too much salty moisture (from vehicles) in the air, but the 50 year old steel square hanging on the wall right by the panels is not rusting, nor is anything else in the garage.Anyone know what can cause this to happen in a week?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:24:44 am
content: Gonna add a couple more pictures here

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:25:17 am
content: Here is the goo I was talking about

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:27:24 am
content: That is a *ton* of salt especially in a closed-off space. Doesn't even look like corrosion, just plain salt like someone poured salt water over it.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 12:58:33 am
content: I was thinking salt too but salt isn't yellow. These two pics (sorry for multiple posts, pics are too large) are from what was removed. I didn't get a picture of the guts from the really bad panel..

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:00:08 am
content: old guts from middle panel

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:18:57 am
content: something must be leaking somewhere, can't see any other way you'd get that much corrosion that fast (unless you have an open bottle of acid near by)maybe the leak is not close by but entering via the cables ?

author: gerts
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:27:23 am
content: Are the service entrance wires coming into the panel fed from a conduit -- possibly underground. What's the goop on the service wires in the panel on the left where they enter the panel at the bottom. Looks like grey caulk. Strange. My guess is that a breached conduit to the panel is allowing some kind of liquid to enter panel. I've had a well that decided to go artesian feed water into a panel.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:46:38 am
content: Liquids can travel inside the insulation (around the copper gaps, capillary action + gravity) and cause issues. There were cases when oil leaked from oil filled machine to the breaker panel in industrial settings.What are the cables connected to? Are they going through potentially salty/chemical environment? Look for "missing stuff" around, something is leaking.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:49:08 am
content: It's not a leak if it's coming from every cable. It's plasticiser migration.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:51:53 am
content: They do not have any acid in the garage, and again, other surfaces in the garage are not doing this.The gray goop is a putty the electrician used to prevent cold air from coming through the conduit from the panel outside (even though no cold draft was felt). That one with the putty is the only one that goes outside and it is now sealed. The garage did have a very high humidity level due to the heated floor and snow from vehicles, but its down to 30% now.The tar from the wiring above was dripping on the wires, not sure if that has something to do with it. The tar is sticky and if touched pulls into fine strands like touching hot glue before it cools. The top breaker has a wet spot that feels strange on the skin almost like a saturated salt solution that had a bit of oil emulsified in.Those panels are for interior stuff only, and it is a typical house with no strange equipment. The only thing in the house that uses salt is the water softener one level lower.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 01:53:07 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on March 10, 2022, 01:18:57 amThat looksverylike corrosion I've seen from HCl fumes, but I'd expect that to have proper go at any exposed steel too.Has anyone been using concrete cleaner nearby? Is there a drain that could be off gassing acid fumes from someone dumping in another nearby drain?Granny cooking Meth and not telling you about it?

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 02:08:21 am
content: It's interesting that the breaker handles are almost completely clean, while the rest of the breaker case immediately adjacent is heavily affected.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:16:19 am
content: The different colours and general appearance remind me of bacterial colonies on agar :-/

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:18:56 am
content: And you know that goo kinda looks....Do we have any electrical engineering morticians or coroners in the house?

author: max.wwwang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:23:33 am
content: Mysterious and intriguing.But easy. If the process is that quick, just take a stool and sit there for half an hour (or longer if you like) and see what the heck the mystery is doing and then track it down.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:28:48 am
content: Quote from: antenna on March 10, 2022, 12:58:33 amDoes it have any smell (after all you were brave enough to taste it...)? Urine?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:58:27 am
content: She had smelled something unusual when she discovered the problem, but I did not smell much of anything when I smelled it. The taste was very salty, but I do remember a strong after effect, almost burning for a minute. I didn't taste the yellow corrosion.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 04:12:44 am
content: those like like metal salts. the aluminum busbars are blooming...are you charging lead-acid batteries in that area ?is there a gas burning water heater in the area (water boiler exhaust gases are caustic. if the flue is blocked ...)any condensate drain in the garage that may be venting gasses ( condensate is also caustic )

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:13:48 am
content: Quote from: max.wwwang on March 10, 2022, 03:23:33 am...if you won't drop dead from fumes before you spot the source of the issue

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:17:46 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 10, 2022, 03:16:19 amOk so if this is a type of mold, then the electrician who dismantled and handled the old panel could transfer stuff onto the new breakers. Perhaps a good idea to give that fellow a call to see if he is still alive

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:25:42 am
content: Are the ends of the copper wires discolored or blackened?

author: Chris Barth
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:29:52 am
content: Certainly is strange that this is from only one week!I notice the garage heat breakers are off. Mold would be unlikely given its winter in the US (depends on your location though). Mold needs a food source and moisture. A little bleach spray could test by making any mold almost dissolve(not really dissolve but you get the point).Really, really strange! More Pics of the garage would help

author: andy3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:42:59 am
content: You may have to open up the sheet rock wall above the enclosure and check. There might be a dead rat on top of the enclosure. Don't lick to check the taste. You never know what the hell it is!

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:55:22 am
content: Is there any chance of getting a metallurgy lab at a university or college to identify the chemical composition of the "salt"?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:01:23 am
content: She was thinking about having it tested. There are no batteries charging, no meth labs, floor drain not emitting anything noticeable either. The location is northern MN. No decaying rat was ever smelled but looking in the wall is probably inevitable.

author: Chris Barth
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:03:46 am
content: EfflorescenceCheck it out.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:22:55 am
content: I was thinking about placing anhydrous copper sulfate in taped cotton and attaching it to the wire jacket ends and conduit openings to see if I can narrow down where the moisture is coming from. The wettest spot should make the sulfate turn blue the fastest.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 08:35:27 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 10, 2022, 01:53:07 amI'd rather vote for battery acid.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:16:52 am
content: First picture.Leftmost and rightmost tap or screw.Are they rusted?Lower right breaker has a clean area.So stuff from opposite direction?Why that area is otherwise clean but screw is rusted?Topmost breaker holders.Left is cleaner than right.So stuff not from up?

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:27:09 am
content: Again, it may be significant that the breaker handles are almost completely clean. Different material, less susceptible to whatever is happening?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:35:23 am
content: My guess is the roof AC/heatpump water drain, that's supposed to take it outside, has come loose in the roof somewhere and it's waste water is draining down the wiring into the electrical box.AC/heatpump drain water is notorious for being pretty horrible, often full of scum, algae, bacteria etc..

author: TheMG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 03:23:27 pm
content: Do you have any gas burning appliances? I've seen a similar type of corrosion and residue inside furnaces and water heaters in which the flue (exhaust) was leaking. A gas burning appliance flue pipe leaking into the wall cavity could certainly cause some problems for the breaker panels (not to mention the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 04:28:37 pm
content: Could also be the drywall, as there was quite a large amount that was made with contaminated gypsum, which tended to vent sulphurous acid as it got damp. Grab a nice chunk of the drywall off around the panel, and simply drop in a bucket of pure water, and measure pH of the resultant slurry, it could be quite acidic, meaning you will need to rip out all the drywall and replace it. Would explain the corrosion and the rest, though the plasticiser dripping off the cable just says the wiring dates from the early 1970's, when the amount of BPA plasticiser in PVC was massive, and the cables all would drip green goo from where it reacted with the copper.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:05:04 pm
content: Get a thermal imaging camera check for hotspots. I wonder if there are some wires that are overheating/melting, creating Hydrocloric acid, the fumes are making the way along the wires etc to the switch box.Take a swab and check it with pH thingy.

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 10, 2022, 04:28:37 pmThe drywall theory is interesting - note that the homeowner reported an unusual smell.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 06:52:30 pm
content: What smells are not unusual.YeastSulphurRoad saltFormaldehydeChlorophenols

author: AlbertL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 07:03:18 pm
content: Is the house part of a community that was built at the same time? Maybe look at the neighbors' panels to see if they have the same problem - that would help determine if it's something unique to the house.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 07:43:24 pm
content: She built the house 20 years ago. Nothing else around the house is corroding so I think the drywall can be excluded. There are no, absolutely no, chemicals in that garage either. No lead-acid batteries, no concrete cleaners, nothing even remotely acidic. The air conditioner is on the ground level below this point and the average outside temp has been 0° so I can say for sure the AC has not been running for several months. The roof has a high pitch and there are no drains up there. The only gas appliance is the furnace (which is new, along with the vent pipe it uses) and the CO detectors have not registered anything. The other panels in the lower level and pole building are not doing this, and they use the same wire, same drywall, same electrician. Receptacles in various places have been checked and no corrosion is present in those. It seems to be limited to this group of panels.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 07:56:21 pm
content: I have a guess - it might not be a good one, but who knows?Walls "breathe" - i.e., there is always some air flow form the exterior walls that is blocked by the vapour barrier and, if this particular wall was not properly set, it might be having unusual moisture accumulation.http://www.solar365.com/green-homes/insulation/how-vapor-barrier-worksGiven the panel is usually deep and can potentially be back-to-back to an exterior wall, I wonder if something in the outside is infiltrating only these panels. In this case I would definitely open part of the drywall on this surrounding and inspect myself. Caution, if moisture is accumulating, mold might be present and can be toxic or at least trigger allergies.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 08:29:13 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on March 10, 2022, 07:43:24 pmI don't think that's a valid conclusion, since the other drywall is similar drywall, not the same drywall. IOW, there could be single panel that has a severe problem. The timeframe of her building the house corresponds to the time that the defective drywall was in the market. The reason I had asked you if the copper wires were blackened is because this would indicate the likely presence of hydrogen sulfide or similar sulfur compounds. Some of those deposits look like sulfur but I definitely wouldn't recommend tasting them! The possible sources of the hydrogen sulfide also include natural gas and rotting biomass. The house wasn't built over a landfill, was it? In any case, I think this is a serious issue and you/she probably needs to have those deposits analyzed ASAP, and probably should tear out the wall as well. You also probably need to hire a contractor to test for H2S, methane and maybe ammonia and formaldehyde. Or you can start with an H2S detector:https://www.industrialsafetyproducts.com/msa-altair-hydrogen-sulfide-gas-monitor/?gclid=CjwKCAiA4KaRBhBdEiwAZi1zzvkvLiqIFcp4cgLKEXFDMoxSjoC8Y7Zg-TXeDfhPY8FVeE6HcmdstxoC9yUQAvD_BwEAlso, FWIW, that oil coming out of those cables doesn't look like the typical plasticizer issue to me, although I'm no expert. I wouldn't expect it from NM-B from that era. And that means you should really investigate that as well.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 09:28:22 pm
content: I will have to test the drywall when I go back over there. Somewhere, I have a bottle of universal indicator sitting on my desk.I did not smell H2S at all and none of the wires appeared blackened. From the appearance of the bare copper, I think we can rule out sulfides and sulfates because there is no black or blue oxidation. There is a bit of white and greenish blue on the wires which would indicate chlorides, but if HCL were somehow involved, I would expect other nearby metal to rust. It would have to be coming from inside the panel or wiring. The way some of the crystals have formed, it looks as though it must have been routinely submerged in salt water, which doesn't make sense.I think my plan should be to go back over there with pH strips to check for acid in the goo and moist parts, then clean and dry everything, apply silicone dielectric grease to everything, then put moisture-sensing sulfate strips in various places to see where the water is coming from.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 09:44:45 pm
content: Is the box near where chlorine laundry bleach is used?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 10:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on March 10, 2022, 09:28:22 pmI'd tend to agree, although you shouldn't rely on smell to detect hydrogen sulfide. Perhaps you can keep the panel open and set up a video camera. I'm thinking that maybe something wild happens on an intermittent basis. For that much of that stuff to deposit in 1 week, you'd almost have to have regular submersions or something.

author: Sceptre
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 03:32:51 am
content: I'd have a test lab analyze a sample of the deposits - knowing what the corrosive element/compound is would be your most important clue.

author: Chris Barth
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 05:30:17 am
content: I'm an electrician. 30+ years of experience. I've seen some strange things in panels but this is pretty strange. Extremely strange that occurred so fast in this instance but the only logical explanation I can think of is efflorescence. It's a phenomenon that occurs with concrete slabs, especially in cold weather climates during freeze-thaw cycles. It's a salt evaporite. Read about it here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EfflorescenceAs far as the "drippy" NM cable. I think it's a separate, unrelated issue. I think this wire was once "waterlogged", the drippy syrup-looking stuff from the paper separator that dissolved in water and is now collecting as the water evaporates. NM cable will become "waterlogged" if exposed to the elements in a surprisingly short amount of time. The paper separator inside the sheath seems to wick in water. It almost never drys after this occurs. I've seen this happen to 250' rolls soaked where there is not a dry spot in it. Typically happens where a good storm comes through, rain leaks into an unfinished basement where the wire is stored during construction. I will toss rolls like this aside but some guys won't hesitate to use it to save money.Sounds dangerous because common sense is that water and electricity don't mix. Again, I won't use it but it's not as bad as it sounds. The insulation covering the conductors is very good, plus I've never seen corrosion to the uninsulated ground wire in "waterlogged wire", even small scrap pieces that have been sitting outside in a large pile for a dozen years waiting for a rare combination of motivation and very high copper prices. I quit drinking 20 yrs ago so I no longer need weekend "beer" money and stripping is a pain in the ass even with a purpose-built tool. Lol! Occasionally I will need some short pieces of solid wire, I will grab from the scrap pile and strip the waterlogged NM sheath off. never do I see green copper oxide or corrosion on the bare ground when stripped. I assume that it's difficult to oxidize because the sheath keeps oxygen out.If it is efflorescence and it's accumulating that fast I would look into mitigation. Salts are conductive and could create issues. Pics of the old panel guts were amazing. The ground/neutral buss bar was encrusted with the stuff. Possibly an electrostatic charge type thing happening?Since a panel cover doesn't seem to help it could even create mechanical issues inside the breakers. I was reading phosphoric acid applied to concrete helps. Better yet is epoxy paint.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:28:33 am
content: It will be a few days before I get over there but I will come back with an update once I do. Efflorescense looks like a good possibility as the floor is beginning to decay at the surface from the salt water. I also learned the floor heat was broken and possibly on 100% of the time. Thanks to everyone for all the excellent suggestions!

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 09:44:29 am
content: Quote from: antenna on March 11, 2022, 08:28:33 amI wouldn't go back there without a shotgun and some back up, just in case.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 11:24:32 am
content: How is the ventilation, whole place, all holes open?How low the stuff appears, any drips?Leave the panel door open and cover the hole with a cotton sheet.Maybe taping the center.

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 07:39:06 pm
content: Some time ago, I noticed on a piece of cable in my box green sticky goo dripping from the ends.It was nasty ands sticky and soiled the contents in the box.I did an internet research and found information that it may have been the softener from the PVC insulation that is somehow oiling out.There have even been trials from homeowners as this production failure damaged the installation.I'm German, so my search results may be of little help to you, I suggest you do a research in your native language.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:35:14 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 10, 2022, 08:29:13 pmI've never seen white powder like that in a breaker box and I use the same breakers (built here in 1979 and an outbuilding in about 2006). Its very strange that the inside surface of box itself is clean! I have no idea what would cause the powder on the plastic breakers but not on the metal surfaces of the box. But I see that the electrical contacts on the RH side also have it!Corrosive drywall has been a HUGE problem in my area! In the 1990s they built tens of thousands of houses here using drywall from China that contained sulfuric acid and the fumes attacked the copper water pipes and ate holes in them. My mother and my MIL both had to have their houses completely replumbed in less than ten years. I'll also seen rolls of brand new never used wiring from China that contained some kind of impurities that caused the copper to be completely eaten away inside of the insulation. Not just near the ends but the entire 500 foot length! I suspect that your brown goo might be due to some kind of chemical impurity in the insulation. The Chinese are notorious for impurities in just about all of their products. It's how they dispose of the majority of their toxic waste. Just about all of the building products that were contaminated here were bought from the absolutely cheapest source available, Home Depot.The first thing that I would do would be to pull the covers from the AC outlets, switches, etc and see if that end(s) of the wires have the goo problem. If any of them do, then IMO, that entire house should be rewired and everything replaced and I would make DAMMED sure that none of the material came from China.PS I think I would also contact Square-D and tell them about the problem and see what they say. I'm sort of wondering if your breakers really were made by Square-D or if they might be counterfeit. You never know where a contractor or sub-contractor might have bought their parts and if they were legit or not.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:38:20 pm
content: Any seismic activity in the area recently? That may have released some trapped H2S - though how it could get to one particular panel I have no clear idea.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:49:15 pm
content: This is a web site that explores home inspection issues.. weird ones like this should be checked out. Whatever is causing it it might be toxic or dangerous!https://inspectapedia.com/

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 09:51:33 pm
content: I've had wire do that too, whatever it is heavily corrodes the wire and makes it almost impossible to solder. This is truly bizarre though, I've never seen anything like it. I think chemical analysis is very worthwhile. I would also certainly not taste it, some chemicals including metal salts can be highly toxic even in small amounts.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 10:21:31 pm
content: leave some metal samples around to see how they react on different surfacesMaybe the electricians truck was left open near someone cleaning concrete and the stuff for the job got exposed. Some tire cleaners and wheel well cleaners are aggressive also, and might do some damage to goods inside of a truck if cleaned with pressure washer. Not hard to imagine that as the weather is warming up someone decided to hose off the truck from a winters worth of road salt and then give it a good going over with everything in autozone so people don't think its a mine cart.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 03:16:14 pm
content: brilliant thread, i haven't laughed so much in years!my money is on you having a RATS NEST in the wall cavity above the switchboard, and that the white and yellow power/corrosion is in fact the residue from rat urine. being the northern hemisphere, you'll be close to heading into spring, and the little vermin will be waking up from their winter nap and becoming active again.they will have chosen the location above the switchboard to hunker down because of all the vertical wiring, which creates a slightly warmer area above it at ceiling height (current carrying wiring gets warm, warm air rises).now youcouldtear open the 'drywall', but you might not like what you find! perhaps call in pest control instead.cheers from new zealand...

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 03:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on March 12, 2022, 03:16:14 pmI had that idea as well (as we might have a marten somewhere in the roofing, i needed to check for symptoms...) - but urine will have a very strong smell, that certainly won't go unnoticed.Also I find it strange to see some traces running down from the screwholes of the covers.I guess it's really best to open the wall.

author: Niklas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 10:45:55 pm
content: The yellowish substance might be something with sulphur. Any smell of rotten eggs or fart?Except for oil burner, rubber industry or volcanic activity, any Chinese drywall or leaks of gas from fracking?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 10:49:47 pm
content: Update:The goo can be ignored. An inch up the wire is dry. When the wires were pushed through the conduit, a lubricant specifically for making that easier was used. It would seem that pushing the wires through the conduit made it collect on the ends. I can only imagine that the moisture and bacteria darkened it over time and that it was originally clear.As for the white powder, definitely a chloride salt. When I looked for my pH indicator solution, I saw a bottle of OTO pool chlorine indicator and had an idea. I took one of those tiny vaseline lip balm containers and glued in two small MMO anodes. A tiny amount of the corrosion (less than a tenth of a gram) was scraped into the container and a tablespoon distilled water added. 15 seconds with a 9v battery to the electrodes made the chlorine content evident by smell alone, but the OTO confirmed it. 100% for sure a chloride salt. And with the after burn from tasting it for saltiness, I am now confident that this chloride is a road salt mixture as magnesium and calcium chlorides burn like that. The corrosion did cause a slightly acidic response from universal indicator solution, but I am guessing that when the salt attacks the aluminum bus bars, the aluminum chloride formed hydrolyzes in the moist environment to aluminum oxide liberating small amounts of HCl gas as a byproduct (which may also have had a darkening effect on the lube used in the conduit).The electrician is expected to return in the next week sometime and the garage humidity is now well under control. I suggested that they ask the electrician to apply dielectric grease to the bus and terminals after he cleans out the crud. She is also now planning to build a closet around the panels to keep them a bit warmer and isolated from the garage environment. They also plan to look into resealing the cement floor as the coating is wore off on about 30% of it. The floor is a big saltwater sponge right now.With all this, I think we have it narrowed down to a combination of the floor holding salt water, the floor heat malfunctioning to full heat, and the panel suffering from excessive galvanic corrosion with a side reaction where the aluminum produces trace HCl gas in an enclosed space. And I also believe that the migration of this salt is due to efflorescence.No sulfur smell, and I am very sensitive to sulfur compounds so I would have certainly noticed that. Thanks to everyone!!! If I have any further updates, I'll surely post them.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2022, 02:13:31 am
content: Well if you insulate the wires they will be more likely to overload.. if you start doing things like adding electric cars to the household it might be a problem.The gel you speak of is sold in the hardware store in a 'sauce' bottle, for pulling wires through conduit. I worked a bit with conduit recently and if you store the conduits outside for a long time, insects *mud daubers?* like to fill up the pipe, we had to make a special tool to drill through it out of a long rebar. I recommend flushing them out before installation if stored outside too, using a brush and soap, then drying them. You want that interior surface clean so the heat gets out easier, if you have a layer of mud its like a insulating coating. If you look at a circuit panel with a thermal imager its usually clear that the wire gets warmer near the inlet of the conduit pipe.But the risk of corrosion to junctions and breakers is also grievous, so I think its a good call, so long its specced out properly.If you use the conduit gel, I recommend getting a cleaning wipe (i.e. the 'heavy duty' cleaning wipes from hardware store, that are scrubby cloth soaked in some kind of detergent) to clean the wires after they are pulled through the conduit. It's nice not to have dust and shit cake up the wires.. .so that's a little bit of lazyness on the electricians part.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2022, 08:18:38 pm
content: Animals often decide to nest where there is a handy space heater. They like warmth.Thanks to signage and its energy usage we have feral parakeets in Connecticut. (otherwise too cold for them) An opossum got into the attic of an apartment I had several years ago and decided to nest right about the lamp fixture in the middle of my bedroom ceiling. After weeks of hearing noises there I decided to remove it and take a look. I'll never forget what I found, a very cute opossum face just a few inches from my own, webothmust have had that expression that said "what are you doing in my home!"I'm sure the warmth was why he located himself there!

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2022, 08:55:56 pm
content: Plastic decay (to acids and oxidicers) was my initial quess.Mystery it is, but looking those images again, there is stains of dripping liquid inside and outside of the cabinets. The rats nest on top of boxes behind the wall could indeed be it.