MSO70000DX - New Tektronix scope released - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 12:34:15 am
content: The newMSO70000DXTektronix scope was released on 2013-23-07. MSO/DPO70000DX series oscilloscopes are available for order now with shipments beginning in September 2013. Pricing starts at $178,000 U.S. MSRP. P7600 33GHz probes are available now.Well, what do you think? This scope is"new", but it is based on an older platform...http://www.tek.com/blog/evolution-msohttp://www.tek.com/document/news-release/tektronix-adds-industry-leading-performance-mixed-signal-oscilloscope-family

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 12:42:53 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 17, 2013, 12:34:15 amThat's all Tektronix do these days.But at this high end level, that's to be expected.Is that a DVD drive on the front panel?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 01:16:13 am
content: still running that god-awfully slow syrupy java frontend i see... -FAIL-

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 01:19:42 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 17, 2013, 01:16:13 am^ I think some people deserves some pink slips.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 02:44:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2013, 12:42:53 amIt depends on what you call an "old platform". The mechanicals are the same as the other DPO/MSO70K series that have been around for a few years. However, under the hood, there are a lot of new things. The analog front end and sampling system (100GS/s) was introduced a little more than a year and a half ago. The processing system in this series is a brand new Quad-Core system. The front end attenuator is redesigned to add a new high-range to accomodate high signal levels typically used with optical modulator drivers. Memory is increased to a max up to 1GS. Once of the coolest feature in all of the MSO70K series scopes is the ability to *internally* route any of the digital inputs to one of the analog channels - giving you the ability to look at the analog characteristics of the digital signal without having to double-probe it.Maybe I'm a bit biased, but these are really awesome scopes.

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 03:23:40 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 17, 2013, 01:16:13 amGrr .. Java user interface. Java sucks so bad on the UI side that is barely used for few desktop/PC applications (usually IDE's for Java development) ... DOUBLE FAIL

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 04:14:45 am
content: Quote from: w2aew on August 17, 2013, 02:44:56 amSure, but how does it drive? Honestly?The MDO scope I reviewed for example was an awesome scope, but it was just dog slow which killed the usability of the thing. It seems that everyone in the industry agreed with me, except Tek employees of courseBut as I was alluding too, with these really high end scopes, you buy based on the spec, and then live with whatever usability performance you get. These aren't everyday use scopes for just probing around your 555 circuit.

author: phatcenter77
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 04:38:01 am
content: Tektronix ui is terrible. I use a TPS2024 at work regularly and really hate the speed of the interface. When Dave recently reviewed the new Rigol power supply and spun the knob, only for the display not to respond until he quit spinning it, I immediately thought of my scope ui...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 01:13:43 pm
content: To be fair the TPS2000 is an old design that is quite similar to the late-nineties era TDS-200. Kind of embarrassing that they're still selling it, especially since it's their only scope with isolated inputs. On the other hand, it's not like the competition (eg. Fluke ScopeMeters) is a whole lot better. It's not really representative of more modern Tek designs like the DSO/MSO 2000/3000 series.Quote from: EEVblog on August 17, 2013, 04:14:45 amBut how is they usability of their competition? How are the high end Lecroy and Agilent scopes? My impression is that they all suck to some degree in the usability department.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 02:17:22 pm
content: The agilent scope i used for the jim williams pulse generator was lightning fast. Spin a knob or push a button and the screen reacts immediately.For example : acquire 2 million points of data . Stop acquisition. Change timebase to zoom in our out. That redraw is instantaneous. Agilent does it differently. Lecroy and tek need the pc to go filter the data in ram , pick the points needed (as there are only so few pixels on the display compared to the datapool it doesnt make sense to plot all of em. That would be a waste of time. We need to pick the points. But... We do need to look inbetween picked points for abnormalities like spikes ! And then figure out what value we will display. The tek and lecroy machines do that in the software running on the pc.The agilents do that in hardware, dropping the result directly in the video memory. All the infiniium machines use a special video card using a c&t65550 graphic processor with dual ported video memory. The scope interface board (pci card linking the computer pci bus to the acquisition system) has an additional ribbon cable that connects to the vga card. If you hit alt-prtscreen all you get is the windows drawn graphics with a big black rectangle where the scope 'screen' should be. No waveforms, no graticule. That stuff is drawn by hardware. Later software version solved that by trapping alt-prtscreen , stopping acquisition and then capturing from videoram.You can see this happening. If the agilent machine is running at full speed and you click 'save screen' the acquisition will temporarily stop, the waveform viewer will freeze for half a second to capture and save the data and then the scope resumes operation. I tried it on that 33Ghz monster and it still has that very typical behavior that even my infiniiums at home have.I have a 7504 (i think.. it's been so long i cant remember the exact number. It's a 13GhZ machine ) at work. That user interface is like a blob of jello... Spin a knob and it drags along... They overlay the standard windows ui with self drawn buttons but they clearly never heard about anti aliasing the edge of graphics. It looks like a friggin windows 2.0 in 8 bit color mode ...Lecroy then applies the chrome effects everywhere but is plagued by their endless acquiring .. Triggering.. Calibrating... Cycles. Every few minutes the scope freezes for 5 to 10 seconds to calibrate itself. They also do all crunching on the pc side with the end result that, when manipulating a large dataset, the fans in the rear kick in to cool the quadcore i7 processor and the thing becomes a bloody hoover vacuum cleaner. The noise is deafening.... And you are greeted with a blast of hot air coming from the side of the machine.... And it is sluggish as molasses. And bad contacts in the control panel, knobs falling off because the plastic had hardened after 2 years and split down the side... Rotary encoders that go fromturtle scroll to supersonic scroll in one click (they still have not figured out how to do a proportional scroll)That agilent scope 90000 series) runs on a dual core celeron cpu... They dont need quad core i7...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 02:29:57 pm
content: Huh. Tek analogs used to be the industry standard. They were amazing, packed with features and reliable. Now, their high end digitals are crap. I was using one at the local university lab, which only uses Tektronix, and even my Siglent was faster.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 02:36:52 pm
content: Careful with that declaration...... "slow" and "crap" are two entirely different things. If I throw a turd really hard, it'll be fast.... but it'll still be crap.Siglent. Throwing turds really hard since 2002.Tektronix. Carrying quality through cold molasses since... whenever the TDS300 series was made.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2013, 03:16:30 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 17, 2013, 02:36:52 pmYeah, the Tek scopes are of quite good quality. But Siglent is just crap.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2013, 05:10:56 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 17, 2013, 02:17:22 pmGot a LeCroy WaveRunner 6 Zi at work, the complimentary "heater" upgrade is great if you live in Alaska.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2013, 07:10:24 am
content: Quote from: alm on August 17, 2013, 01:13:43 pmI've shown a $140K Agilent high end unit, and yeah, it is not pleasant to use at all.At this high end you are often picking one of these scope for a very specific niche test (that often involves integrated or external software analysis or some such), and the one that best meets that specs gets the nod. So often you don't really have a choice in this top end stuff.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2013, 07:14:47 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 17, 2013, 02:36:52 pm*snort*

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2013, 07:22:14 am
content: Quote from: Hypernova on August 18, 2013, 05:10:56 amMines a 7zi. So you know what i am talking about.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2013, 02:43:44 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 18, 2013, 07:22:14 amI have a friend that has a LeCroy. His dad works at the university and got it for him. The thing was only 3 years old, and as I was playing with it, I turned the Horizontal position knob. Bam. The damn thing fell off. Then the scope went into full idiot mode, with the trace appearing then disappearing, giving off completely erratic readings.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2013, 07:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on August 20, 2013, 02:43:44 amIs that normal on LeCroy scopes??? The scope must have been faulty. Maybe that's why they did not want him at the university.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2013, 09:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 20, 2013, 07:26:13 pmI don't know, but the Siglent made LeCroy's seem of better quality. And lets not talk about Rigol, who is by far the best of the Chinese scope makers.