Anything wrong about the stencil printer QH3040 and T-960 reflow oven ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 05:32:25 am
content: Planning to order the TVM920 from QiHe (http://qihekj.com/), and they offer to buy also a QH3040 stencil printer and a T-960 reflow oven.They are not great in maintaining their own web site info, so here are the alibaba links:https://qihesmt.en.alibaba.com/product/60517262611-804127760/Stencil_Printer_QH3040_High_Precise_printing_machine_QiHe_pick_and_place_machie_smt_printer.htmlandhttps://qihesmt.en.alibaba.com/product/60492675152-802634447/Precision_stepper_smt_reflow_oven_t_960_reflow_oven.htmli dont think they manufacture this equipment but teh price is pretty affordable so maybe it is easier to buy from the same vendoris there anything wrong about this stuff ? Maybe someone can point out to some better equipment that will be easier to work with and also reasonably priced? I'd rather pay twice more for better equipment as these are low cost items. I got a quote from Torch and they are much more expensive, but not sure if they are any better.Thanks!

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 06:57:23 am
content: Those Stencil printers are "ok", but certainly not great. If you are wanting to do any mroe than just a few prints you really will want to get something that is a bit better. A semi-automatic printer will set you back about $2k. If you are doing stuff at 0603 and higher you'll be ok, but you'll just spend a lot of time with alingment of each panel and constant cleaning. Adn there is a lot to be said for not havint somethign that you use a manual squeeqee with.Yes you can do a lot with those machines, but its a question of time and repeatablity.Heres teh next step up.http://www.torchsmt.com/Manual-high-precision-screen-printing-machine-T1000-pd92462.html

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 07:22:07 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on January 09, 2017, 06:57:23 amThanks!Maybe T1100 then? With a button... costs around $3000 :http://www.torchsmt.com/Bench-top-high-accuracy-semiautomatic-printing-machine-T1100-pd29192.htmlAny comments on the oven?

author: l0wside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 08:40:23 am
content: The Chinese stencil printers usually require framed stencils, which are more or less available only from China.If you are willing to spend in the 3000$ range for prototyping, there are IMHO better options. A guided squeegee (sorry, I am not sure about the correct English wording, what I am referring to is a squeegee whose position and pressure are defined by the machine) is definitely a plus.If buying a used part is an option, I would go this way. In my experience, a manual stencil printer does not wear off (with very old or abused parts, however, the hinges might have play). eBay 231857189677 looks good to me.

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 11:16:26 am
content: Quote from: l0wside on January 09, 2017, 08:40:23 amI am only considering new stuff. Will probably buy a T1000 ?? T1100 , I checked their specs and can't really figure out if they require framed stencils or not. I am attaching it here - maybe you can recognize it? Thanks!

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 01:03:04 pm
content: I'm pretty sure it requires framed stencil. There is no way around it.I would not recommend IR oven for anything more than 100 boards per month. You really need hot air oven.I used T962A for a while, and a toster oven for a few years before that, and then I got conveyor 3 zone oven. Granted 3 zone might be too few, but it is still way better than IR. In the IR oven boards always come out looking kind of tanned.

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 07:56:46 am
content: Quote from: ar__systems on January 09, 2017, 01:03:04 pmIs there any oven p/n that you can recommend in the $5000 price range? Thanks

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:46:10 pm
content: Not many people are making small ovens. There is DDM novastar, Nordson Dima, however I have no personal experience with neither. When I was searching I came across desktop Heller's as well.I've got a used Manncorp (which is now discontinued) for 1700 CADI recommend to look for used one. You'll save at least 50%.I like mine because it is very repair friendly design. There is no custom electronics in it all, it is all off-the-shelf omron temperature controllers, relays, and such. If anything breaks, everything is replaceable. Mechanically it is very very simple. It will work forever.Also, plan to install an exhaust from the start. Or you'll suffocate.

author: l0wside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2017, 04:09:36 pm
content: Agreed about the T962(A). I have a (modified) T962, and it sucks.On the German forum, someone purchased a Puhui T960 (combined IR and hot air). His feedback was positive. The machine is, however, a lot larger than the T962 (about 4ft long).

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2017, 11:36:55 pm
content: I have got this stencil printer, but never used it. Why ? This printer needs a special framed stencil. I was not able to find any manufacturer for such a stencil outside China.The oven is ok if your expectations for an even heat distribution are low, it has some hot spots which can burn your PCB.I am now using stencil printer and oven from CIF (a French company), these parts are way better than the Chinese parts, and more expensive of course.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 12:22:08 am
content: Quote from: harry4516 on January 12, 2017, 11:36:55 pmCIF oven is still a ridiculous crap without proper temperature profile control (At least FT-02) and very uneven heating. And with electrocution danger if it was made in around 2015 and earlier. My condolences to those who paid full retail price for them.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 03:00:17 am
content: CIF oven looks kind of small. How many heating zones does it have?

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 03:04:15 am
content: Quote from: harry4516 on January 12, 2017, 11:36:55 pmI built a frame for the printer and order stencils with mounting holes on the perimeter. I then mount the stencil in the frame and stretch it kind of like that CIF printer does.

author: richardlawson1489
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 07:03:48 am
content: I had a positive experience with T960. Is there any specific reason to go for T1000 or T1100?

author: thommo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 10:26:13 am
content: Hi dimbmw,I purchased the small conveyor oven from Torch.From other's reports I would steer clear of those small IR ovens - but it really depends on your volume and production reqs.I also have a TVM920, and I bought the manual Stencil Printer they offer.If I had the money I would have purchased a higher-end Stencil Printer and, eventually, probably will.The Torch R350 is beaut, and you will love the TVM920 too.Good luck!Peter

author: dimbmw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2017, 08:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: thommo on February 01, 2017, 10:26:13 amThanks !May I ask how much have you paid for the R350? I was looking at it but it was way way way more expensive than the T960, so i ordered the T960 together with the TVM920, and if the T960 will not satisfy me i will just dump it as it is cheap.But i ordered a stencil printer from torsch , t1100, right away, as i think it makes sense to have these rails to spread the solder paste more accurately.

author: dtf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 04:17:05 am
content: i got this stencil printer and oven. The printer takes a bit of setup, but now it's working great. my stuff is all 0402 and 0.4/0.5mm pitch components. of course it is designed for small chinese stencils, but i'm using local framed stencils without problems, i just got them to cut the paste plots in a certain area of the stencil. at the price there is no competition from any pro company.the oven has been ok. it's easy to set up and heats up very quick. however it takes quite a bit of tuning, if you don't have a thermal profiling setup. note that i'm using exclusively rohs paste. I have it tuned now, where it works with thin, sparsely populated PCBs, and thick, densely populated PCBs using the same reflow curve. Again, at that price, there is no competition from any pro company.So you're saving money by buying cheap chinese stuff, if you're incapable of making the necessary adjustments for it to fit your work, then it won't be worth it.