What Breadboard - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jobog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2015, 09:49:34 pm
content: I recently had a problem with a counting circuit using 4026 chips and the problem was caused by a bad connector on my breadboard. The breadboard is a cheap Chinese one and when a thick lead like one on a 1/2 watt resistor is plugged in that hole on the board stays stretched open making anything else plugged into that hole very loose.What breadboards are people using that wouldn't have this problem?

author: abit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2015, 11:14:17 pm
content: During the Olympics in China I bought some stuff as Customs to the world was open and free, and I might have some of the exact same breadboards what you have, they never worked for me. I put them in storage and used another one. Now, I am not knocking products from China at all, but the same issue you describe did happen to me. What you might want to do is to build some identical simple circuits on two or more different breadboards, and save yourself from constant frustration in the future?

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2015, 11:18:16 pm
content: 3M have some pretty nice breadboards.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2015, 11:36:08 pm
content: Any of them will have the same problem if you abuse the sockets too far and too often, but some are definitely better than others.I've got a couple of medium-sized 3M breadboards which are quite nice - but they cost 10-30x the price of a cheap chinese one. I've got an old (maybe 20 years) one from Jaycar branded "Faystar", which is maybe 1/3 the quality of the 3Ms, but also only cost 1/3 the price. And I've got a bunch of small chinese ones I've randomly acquired over the years, and none of them have ever been any good.Quote from: abit on April 22, 2015, 11:14:17 pmSo you end up with 2 'identical' circuits that you'll never be 100% sure either of them are working properly?

author: abit
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2015, 11:50:39 pm
content: No, you end up with some circuits that work in-grid. They do not have to work properly, they just need to show that the contact points and the circuit works, so you have a good breadboard.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 07:01:36 am
content: Quote from: jobog on April 22, 2015, 09:49:34 pmI like questions that are easy to answer! In this case the answer is simply "none, they are all problematic; you will spend more time debugging the breadboard than your circuit". That's true both mechanically and electrically.Do yourself a favour and learn how masters do it: use dead-bug or manhattan techniques. That's especially valid for anything which can operate at frequencies higher than audio frequencies.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 02:01:50 pm
content: As already pointed out, all breadboard connections are going to be crap. Some more than others. That said, I also use the el cheapo chinese breadboards. While the connection reliability is not even close to that of a blob of solder, it has it's uses for a quick"I wonder if this will work"test.The thick lead messing up the hole is always going to happen, so might as well assume that right from the start. I reserve two rows (one on each side) for sticking in thick leads, and mark it with the big fat permanent marker so I don't forget which is which. Seems to be working so far.For anything that is not so forgiving it's dead bug style. And certain lazy people might even mix those. Small piece of copper clad for the tricky circuitry and then connect that to the breadboard where you do the rest.

author: jobog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 05:57:05 pm
content: What a great idea, reserving 2 rows and marking them. Some times you don't think of the simplest solution. So now, I get another cheap breadboard and do the same. Thanks for the idea.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 06:12:11 pm
content: Funny, I've been using breadboards for many years and have never had one cause a problem. Lots of stuff built on them didn't work at first (or ever), but it was never the breadboard's fault. I have two from RadioShack, bought around 1990, a couple of 3M, and a hand full of random types acquired over the years.They're made to use with small wire and leads only. If you jam something way too big in them, or try to use those tact switches and pots with wide, flat leads, it's possible to spread the clips to a point where small leads or wire will no longer make good contact.They're not intended for high speed circuits. I have no idea what the limit is for any of my boards, but I've made 4+ MHz oscillator's that worked fine. This is because there will always be a small amount of capacitance between rows on the board which will affect any circuit built on them. It may be enough to cause problems. I think Dave measured his breadboard in a video and found around 20-25 pF.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 08:23:47 pm
content: I have an old Ariston breadboard. Borrowed from schoo that is driving me nuts, despite I tried to check connections. The circuit doesn't work!I use wires for joints, but they have one wire on each one. No money for proper ones.What to do? I have no money to.buy a few breadboards, but it's on my wish list.It's a shame they aren't so reliable, it seems a good idea. Are there models that can get repaired easily with replacement parts andbsuch?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 09:56:36 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on April 23, 2015, 06:12:11 pmAnd inductance in the wires, typically 0.8nH/mm - so a 6" flying lead is ~150nH. Obviously that can resonate with stray capacitances.Additionally, it is easy to get surprisingly high induced voltages due to current transients in digital circuits; V = L di/dt. Consider the power leads to a relativelyslow8-way buffer with each output driving 25pF through 3.3V in 10ns. The current necessary to change the voltage across a capacitor is given by VC = Q = It. Plugging in the figures gives I = 3.3 * (8 * 25e-12) / 10e-9 = 66mA, and therefore di/dt = 66e-3/5e-9 = 13.2MA/s. The voltage induced across a 1" (20nH) lead is 8e-9 * 13.2e6 = 0.25V, and across a 6" (150nH) lead is 2V.Clearly that could affect the operation of the circuit!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2015, 11:48:29 pm
content: If you're after a decent quality breadboard, you might want to take a look at the following brands (top down in quality IME):3MGlobal Specialties, get the premium line <ones without theEat the end of the P/N, = Economy>Wisher (Taiwan); theirs get rebranded a lot, such as under the RadioShack brand; get the ones that are phosphor bronze, rated for 10k cyclesQuote from: Tac Eht Xilef on April 22, 2015, 11:36:08 pm+1

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 12:01:44 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 23, 2015, 11:48:29 pmWhat are the prices? Any good sellers? I'm from Spain, so no hope I think.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 01:05:05 am
content: Even good qualliy breadboards can get stretched.Personally i only use breadboard for very quick/dirty testing.If i want something reliable i get a PCB made, if i don't have time for that I construct the circuit dead bug style or in free air with solid core wire links.On rare occasions I etch my own pcbs using the toner transfer method, results are ok, but it really is more trouble than its worth.2layer home PCBs are a real bitch.

author: john_p_wi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 01:54:44 am
content: I've had best luck with 3M, but then you could by 3 or 4 of the others and throw them away for the price of one 3M.I recently bought a handful of these and the seem to be OK.http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GYATUG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 08:19:05 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on April 24, 2015, 12:01:44 amAs a general rule, 3M is awfully expensive, but it is the best out there. Global Specialties is pretty close IMHO, but at a better price (at least here in the US). Wisher is the least expensive, and will be easier to find I suspect, but it's not as good as either 3M or Global Specialties (i.e. you get what you pay for, but it's by no means garbage).As per where to find them, Farnell carries all 3 brands, and RS carries some 3M & Global Specialties.Not sure if they're ^ the best prices for your location, so you'll have to do a search (probably best by P/N). You might also want to check eBay for NOS of either 3M or Global Specialties, particularly from US sellers if they'll ship to you for better pricing as I see deals there often enough (used is possible as well, but riskier as there may be bad <stretched> holes). Wisher shouldn't be too hard to find, particularly on eBay, and it's also the least expensive brand of the three based on US street prices.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 09:05:34 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on April 24, 2015, 12:01:44 amMuch more expensive and unreliable than manhattan soldering. Have a look at the photos inhttp://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT1.pdfandhttp://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~pharden/hobby/HG-MANHAT2.pdfNote that those techniques are, quick, fast, cheap, sufficient for permanent installation, and work at RF. Now you may not need the last two, but they indicate the techniques are capable of much more than a mere amateur bodge.

author: dentaku
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 09:47:25 pm
content: I've found that my 3M breadboard is better than no-name stuff. For some reason the ones that don't have red a blue stripes printed on them and are made from more off-white plastic seem to usually be better.By the way, some people have great luck with breadboards. Hex Inverter recently posted this photo on Facebook.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=746804842104855&set=p.746804842104855&type=1&theater

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2015, 11:01:00 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 23, 2015, 11:48:29 pmThis is my experience as well. The cheap, China-direct breadboards are the ones to stay away from. I really enjoy having a few breadboards for "does this work" experiments with ICs. Make sure get a six-roll kit of 22ga solid wire too.Deadbug is a respected method, but not faster than a breadboard and some pre-cut wires.I would spend some time learning Eagle or Kicad and spinning a PCB for more permanent projects. It's worth the effort.

author: PCB designer
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2015, 09:43:19 am
content: It is ok once you get the new for a try .Online is low cost and hope you will work out recently .