Extra car lock rolling code reciever - can you buy them? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 12:29:24 am
content: I have got a new cabin scooter delivered with a remote control of that kind you get with your car, not the cheap remotes you typically see on eBay.Unfortunately, have I only got one remote and have gotten told I have to buy a complete lock-system to be able to make more. On top of that, does it not have any alarm system, so I would like to buy a receiver that could catch the signal from the original remote and then react with my functions.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 03:49:38 am
content: I'm not sure what you mean by "that kind you get with your car, not the cheap remotes you typically see on eBay."Do you mean it has an immobiliser key?You need to have a lot more info to be able to figure out anything useful.Could be fixed code or rolling code.Could be a known protocol with many vulnerabilities or something custom.If it was me, I'd probably take the key/keyfob apart and see what chips it has in it.But i dont want you to damage your only working one.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 08:21:46 am
content: It was very easy to take it apart, here is a picture with the largest chip visible

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 08:59:26 am
content: And what can you read on that chip?HCS100/101, 200/201... and a Microchip logo?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 09:09:46 am
content: Quote from: FriedMule on August 14, 2022, 08:21:46 amNice moodily lit portrait shot of the top button! Now how about getting up and taking a proper vertical photo of the board.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 09:43:49 am
content: You are all great, here is a straight down image:

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 09:46:22 am
content: ... still can't read the microchip reference ! ...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 09:54:58 am
content: Is it just a remote (keyless ignition) or does it have a built in key? If it is the latter, then try taking it to your local locksmith / key cutting service, they will at least produce you a duplicate and program the immobiliser chip. Ignoring the remote function, having just one key is a liability.It it only came with one key then somebody has retained the other one.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 10:31:51 am
content: I have taken it apart again to get a better picture of the chip:

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 10:35:15 am
content: It has one physical key and a remote with a key in it. All I know is about nothing, since those who delivers it, only get the cabin scooters like that.I imagine there have to be a way to add remotes to the scooter, but how is the question.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 10:56:14 am
content: Picture of the remote, on the back is the number 87101Inside behind the battery cover is the following JC-115 REV: 1F

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 11:03:56 am
content: In the US, the easiest way to get extra keys is to go to a dealer's shop. That's also the most expensive option. The Internet will often include workarounds for individuals. I have had good luck reprogramming additional keys for my two Fords.Your scooter may not have that large a market. Code readers and reprogrammers for car fobs are available for low cost. Even Amazon lists them. The place to start is to get a compatible key for your scooter. Are they available?

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 11:10:39 am
content: I recommend you to not use that remote keys, they are very vulnerable. Any kid can catch the sequence and can open the car. I recommend to use remote key with authentication based on asymmetric cryptography, they also known as "dialogue code". The car sends random sequence and the key encrypts it with secret key and sends result back. Asymmetric encryption is used. The car knows the secret key, so it can check it. Such way is more safe for remote key to avoid interception.

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 11:27:26 am
content: as i understood, OP did'nt want an extra key. He's looking for a second receiver.His model uses an advanced encoding (learning code) compared to cheap wireless RFsockets with limited and fixed (soldered) codings.Widely used in garage door openers, the corresponding receivers are fitted with an learning button.EV1527https://w.electrodragon.com/w/RF-LINK_ASK_Encoder_DecoderDatasheethttps://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/1132432/ETC2/EV1527.htmlSo in my opinion he needs an universal receiver module in the frequency range (315, 433, 868 MHz) used by his transmitter and has to pair it.https://www.electrodragon.com/product/wireless-relay-kit-learning-code/reprogramming receiverBut keep in mind - as others stated - this kind of coding is not very safe!

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 12:28:41 pm
content: I don't know why you think it uses a rolling code. If the seller told you that, then, well, they lied.EV1527 is a very simple encoder. No rolling/hopping code, it just sends a preamble, followed by a constant 20-bit transmitter id, and 4 bit button id. With around 1 million possible transmitter ids, the receiver typically has to "learn" the code(s) for trusted transmitters, which results in them sometimes being called "learning code" remotes, but they are essentially just fixed-code devices.I see plenty of inexpensive receivers for sale online that mention EV1527, but they seem to normally be sold together with one or more transmitters, making me wonder if they really use EV1527, or just something vaguely similar, that might not be compatible.You could certainly make your own receiver, I'll bet you will find code to turn an Arduino and cheap RF receiver module into a decoder.Or, if you can ditch it, and get real rolling-code receivers and transmitters.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 02:00:46 pm
content: To remove any confusion about my goal:-)First was my idea to get a receiver I could trigger both the original system and my DIY system, but separately. Then did you start talking about, owning only one remote may not be the smartest ting, so my project has now expanded to getting more remotes a one more receiver.Most of you know these cheap plastic remotes you can get with some 433MHz receiver, I am wondering if my remote is of the NON rolling 433MHz or the constant kind, will it work with one of these Amazon / eBay 433 receivers?To added safety, can I easily build in some RFID or switch that have to be activated for the scooter to start. :-)

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 10:15:16 pm
content: Quote from: FriedMule on August 14, 2022, 02:00:46 pmUnless the chip in your remote is incorrectly marked, which I would take as being very unlikely, then it is using a fixed code for sure.I have a four-button remote here that uses an EV1527. This is what the rtl_433 program shows me (using a cheap TV/SDR USB receiver dongle):Code:time : 2022-08-15 07:04:39model : Akhan-100F14 ID (20bit): 0x151e9Data (4bit): 0x2 (Unlock)Trust me, the 20-bit ID code never changes. If I press a different button on the remote, the 4-bit data field changes, but the ID stays the same:Code:time : 2022-08-15 07:18:32model : Akhan-100F14 ID (20bit): 0x151e9Data (4bit): 0x1 (Lock)If you are happy with the (lack of) security that something like that has, then for sure you may be able to find a compatible receiver. However, even if the frequency is known to be the same there are way too many variables for some randomly selected receiver to be likely to work. I would be looking for one where at least the they mention EV1527, or xx1527, but I don't know that guarantees compatibility, as often the sellers of such things don't really have a clue as to what they are selling.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 11:54:17 pm
content: This is great and bad news all at once:-)I can buy a complete new lock system or make some other safety solution.Is it possible to copy the remote so I do not have to get the original receiver to learn a new remote?

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2022, 02:46:24 am
content: Quote from: FriedMule on August 14, 2022, 11:54:17 pmYes, you can get remotes that can copy the code from a working remote.I have a 433MHz one that I bought on Ebay years ago. The listing for it is long gone from Ebay, but the (not very good) instructions that came with it mentions compatibility with several different encoder chips, including EV1527. So I tried it and it did copy the code from the EV1527 remote that I have.I also tried a couple of multi-frequency "universal" remotes that I have, which are as mentioned here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/universal-fixed-and-rolling-code-remote-control-duplicator/. Those are more meant as replacements for various rolling-code remotes, but they do claim that they are able to copy fixed codes too (I've never seen a list of the fixed codes that they are compatible with though). I tried copying the code from the EV1527 remote with both of those "universal" remotes, but had no success.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2022, 04:19:24 am
content: I have found this remote, I found it by typing EV1527 on google but it says it's compatible with ID48 and some long numbers, is these two different standards or has it nothing to do with EV1527 ?https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/product/B07JH6M857/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3V5NDSQZPFUXZ&psc=1

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2022, 07:06:54 am
content: Those other numbers don't mean anything to me either, but that appears to be something completely different.This is more like what I have (the buttons on my one are marked 1, 2, 3, 4 rather than A, B, C, D):https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Tyenaza-Garage-Opener-Cloning-Wireless/dp/B098QTR4GK/Note in the description there, they specifically mention encoders it is compatible with, including EV1527.I can't vouch for that seller in any way though.