whats with the github thing? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 05:03:08 pm
content: Its a minority thing for people who love command lines and Linux. Most of us dont, so just link in a regular file or two not your project dump!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 05:23:19 pm
content: Oh no, the thing you are getting for free is not delivered in a form you like.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 05:34:47 pm
content: Git's a minority thing?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 05:58:29 pm
content: There could be much to say about github (and I once did, but just know that if you dare touch it you expose yourself to retaliation), but if your point is ease of access, nah. Not a good reason for complaining. If you don't know or don't want to bother with using git and cloning projects, you can always download an entire snapshot in zip format. It's just a click away.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 06:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 08, 2022, 05:03:08 pmwhat's wrong with looking at the file on github? you don't need to get the whole project to look at a file, you can just browse the files

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 06:06:00 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 08, 2022, 05:58:29 pmafair not so simple when a repository includes other repositories

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 06:27:20 pm
content: It could be hard for the maintainer, but for everyone else, it couldn't be easier:Code:git clone https://github.com/stuffyouwantIf including other repos, add "--recursive".Take the file you want. Done. Congrats.Why so much GitHub? Because maintaining a project without versioning is a nightmare.Suddenly nothing works. What the hell was it? Huhh I have no idea, Rick.With git, you track the changes very easily, also download/revert any revision of your code, etc...

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 06:54:02 pm
content: The first post we see nowQuote from: Terry Bites on April 08, 2022, 05:03:08 pmlooks like it's a reply to some other message that is now missing. Probably the now missing opening post was made by some bot that was deleted meanwhile, yetTerry Biteshad already replied before the user deletion, so nowTerry Bitesappears to be the thread initiator. Otherwise the quoted text wouldn't make much sense as an opening post.It's kind of weird how everybody is jumping to rant at an opening thread that is disjointed as a standalone text, and it would only make sense as a reply.Terry Bites, were you upset about github so that made you open this new thread about it, or you were just replying to an already existing thread?

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 07:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 08, 2022, 06:54:02 pmFrom my experience, that's how many of "the rest of us" types communicate in issue trackers on github. Weird, indeed, but also typical.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 07:11:43 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 08, 2022, 05:03:08 pmVersion control hasn't been a minority thing for a good 30 years or more. Get with the times.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 07:13:59 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 08, 2022, 06:54:02 pmBut then their reply subject would sayRe:Subject Title......But it doesn't, so they seem to be the OP.EDIT: Assuming the Forum doesn't change the subject title of a post, if the OP post is deleted by a mod or admin. I assume it doesn't, because it seems to remember manual subject changes. But maybe it does.Anyway, they do seem to be the OP.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 07:48:19 pm
content: Quote from: mazurov on April 08, 2022, 07:11:07 pmThey were responding to their own question listed in the title.

author: razvan784
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 08:28:18 pm
content: For easy version control on Windows, there is the VisualSVN server and the TortoiseSVN client.There is also TortoiseGit for those who dislike the command line.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 08:36:11 pm
content: Oh god can we please let SVN die already.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 08:45:15 pm
content: No, because SVN > GIT

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 08:46:34 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 08, 2022, 06:54:02 pmThis is impossible. You can't delete head of the thread.Quote from: RoGeorge on April 08, 2022, 06:54:02 pmAs typical from people complaining about stuff like this.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 09:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 08, 2022, 05:03:08 pmGithub is just a place for putting your git projects. They don't require you to use git, you can just download the whole thing as a zip or see a single fine in a browser.Nothing about github is linux specific. The official git client is available for Windows and has a GUI too.You can put up your VisualStudio C# windows application project up onto git straight from the VisualStudio IDE. No command line needed

author: profdc9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 12:27:44 am
content: I have dozens of projects I made on github:http://www.github.com/profdc9Why did I choose github (or a git respository?). Well, for one thing, you can not just browse the current files, but any previous commit. That can be extremely handy to figure out what changed and how it is was put together!Secondly, you can download the entire archive as a zip file just by going to the "Code" green button and then clicking "Download ZIP."It both makes it easier for me to distribute my work and for others to download it, and even contribute to it by sending a pull request.For those who don't want to use a command line, there are GUI interfaces for git, though I don't really use them. There's also frequently integration of git into many IDEs.Git can even be useful for version controlling stuff that is not software code, for example, configuration files.If I had a complaint about git, is that it can sometimes perform drastic changes to the repository unexpectedly if you are not familiar with it, and it can be a somewhat complex program. But it's used to manage huge software projects and I guess that's to be expected.But I think that github makes git projects reasonably accessible to those who don't want to deal with git directly, and even has some convenient features to browse versions.

author: robzy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 12:55:11 am
content: Oh gosh, no, please. More Github, please!Nothing brings me more joy than seeing project files on Github. Especially if it includes software/firmware.In theory hardware files could kinda sorta go on a website, but why bother, when Github makes it super easy to package up and share some files?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:06:32 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on April 08, 2022, 07:13:59 pmMakes sense, I guess I was wrong then.Weird anyways, added to ignored topics.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:14:29 am
content: Audience narrowing is never a good thing. Its not about wanting your entire project for free even if you're giving it away. Surely a clear outline of what your project or question is what matters.Thinking that how I or my imediate circle do it is how everyone does it and everyone uses this OS, software or viewer- and they just don't. It is the social media echo chamber effect at work.My complaint is that its far too specific when the abilties, computer systems and tools available the audience are very diverse. No one gets to say thats just tough, I'm doing you a favour.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:33:09 am
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 09, 2022, 01:14:29 amSo first you're whining that it's a minority thing, now you're complaining because actually everyone uses it?Github, and git, are used because they are available and effective. There are, in fact, several other suitable sources to host git repositories for public access and anyone can and does use git in a private fashion as needed. Many, many people also use other revision control systems.It seems to me you've simply got a problem understanding the tool and have decided to complain instead of learn.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:36:23 am
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 09, 2022, 01:14:29 amgithub doesn't require any specific tool, computer systems or OSyou go on a website and all the files are there for you to look at, or with single click download.The main page of a repository outlines what the project does, and usually has info on how tobuild and run, there's a link for questions and issues all in one place

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 01:39:18 am
content: Github is a website. It will automatically generate a zip of all the project files for you. If all you want to do is consume the work others are generously distributing for free, it's no more difficult for the consumer than any other distribution method. Click the "Download ZIP" link or download the appropriate release artifact. Browse the source code if you want, in syntax-highlighted and searchable fashion. Your complaint makes no sense, Github (and similar) is not a regression.What it is, is much easier for the project maintainer. Packaging and distribution is a pain in the ass to do manually, especially when you want to track multiple versions. Then you need to develop a website or have a blog or something that you also need to maintain. Github makes that all totally painless and practically zero effort. And that's before you get to the absolute plethora of things it offers for the person who's project it is that you're consuming (CI/CD, issue tracking, discussions / mailing list, documentation hosting, etc. etc. etc.).Version control is a huge boon anyway, and many will be doing it regardless of distributing it online, Github just makes it almost zero-friction to make it public. I would wager that a large portion of the hobby projects you find on Github would never have had code/design files released at all prior to its existence, or you'd never have found them, because it also aids with discover-ability, since they're not buried on some random forum somewhere.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 03:31:59 am
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on April 09, 2022, 01:14:29 amI genuinely do not understand.GitHub is based onGit, a version control system optimized for nonlinear distributed software development. Many implementations exist, although the command-line basedgitis the most used.Why is it command-line based? Why are the command-line commands shown at GitHub project pages? Because it is the path of least effort. By the time you launch your preferred Git GUI client and are ready to paste in the repository URL, others using the command-line client have already typed "git clone",and with less cognitive and physical effort. It is not about love of the command line, but of minimizing effort and bother. Every software engineer and developer knows that being efficient and minimizing unnecessary cognitive load makes the work easier and more fun.There are quite a few blind software developers. Because of the command-line interface, I would be surprised if nobody has connected their speech interpreter to dedicated "git clone", "cd", "git checkout", "git grep", and so on. I myself, with okay eyesight, am tempted to do so, just because I like to close my eyes or walk around in the room when thinking (doing both at the same time leads to bruising my knees on furniture), and throwing out verbal commands while doing that to find out if there is a git repository with related information, by downloading them (into a dedicated root directory, of course) and grepping their contents, would beuseful and efficient.Don't like the command-line interface? No problem: just use one of the dozens ofGit GUIs. None of them work for you? Write your own. They all work with GitHub, too, because GitHub uses the Git protocols and format.Circling back to GitHub. Exactly because it supports all Git-like clients, it works with quite likely the widest variety of clients among all version control repository systems. Its own interface is either via git clients or via the GUI (via the browser), so you do not need to use the command line for anything if you don't want to. (It is only prominently listed on the GitHub pages, because it is the most common denominator; the lowest common factor, and thus simplest form to display the information.)Are you sure you are not unhappy because it does not conform to the way things should be, because Windows is the only OS you've ever used/liked? (This is a genuine question; I am not trying to be snide or snippy. Quite the contrary.)As I've mentioned before, I've mentored a lot of programmers and users, with the largest hurdles not with the newbies, but with Windows power users: those who have used Windows for a long time, and have internalized the structures and approaches used in Windows so much so that they have difficulty imagining why any other approaches would even exist. This is not surprising, though, as it happens with every other facet of human life, too; it is perfectly human. But, occasionally, it does cause problems. (This is one of those occasions, I believe; and I am trying to help.)One interesting facet I've discussed ispackage management. As you all know, Windows does not use package management; it hasinstallersinstead. Most installers are separate software products not created by Microsoft. (The same applies to Mac OS, somewhat, although there are some, likeHomebrew, that are widely used.)Lack of software package management in an OS leads to all sorts of difficulties, especially library version conflicts, and uninstallers not properly cleaning after themselves. Because an installer must include all libraries the application might use, they often contain superfluous files, and tend to be rather large in size, too.Compare to modern package management, which standardize the installation management completely. Because that does not fix library version conflicts either (it just points them out to the user, which often frustrates users because they don't have nice or simple ways to fix such issues), self-contained packages likeSnaps,AppImages,Flatpaks, and even cross-platformZero Installs(0install.net) have appeared.I recall one mentee that once exclaimed, utterly frustrated (with Linux), that they're not interested in packages; they just want to know the website where they can download and run the driver/application installer, just like they did in Windows! A couple of months after that, the same person excitedly told me how they had installed and uninstalled (purged) many different applications on their Linux machine, without any issues; and how much easier and more efficient that was than the executable installer method.They loved it.It is exactly because of observations like that, and not my own beliefs or preferences, that I believe Terry's frustration is also rooted in the dissonance between the single way of doing things they have learned to do and love, up to and including the rejection of all others, no matter if useful or not; and not in any genuine practical reasons.Again, I believe having such hangups is utterly human; hell, I have these myself! What matters, is whether one is willing to try and overcome them, to find out for oneself –– and that includes climbing over the initial suckage, not just dabbling in for five minutes and giving up in frustration.If it matters any, I myself have learned to ignore the initial dislike and frustration, because I've found so often that they were wrong –– that I was wrong. It is a big reason why I often mention I am often wrong: to learn, and to become more efficient at what I do, I must often completely ignore my beliefs and initial feelings, and do research and testing, before making up my mind. I've also noticed that my mind changes mostly only while I sleep: after a productive testing/experimentation session, my feelings have not yet changed, but the next day, I find I no longer have the "dislike" feeling when using that tool anymore.Unfortunately, in today's world,feelingsmatter more than actual reality, even though they are fleeting and easily manipulated. Which I find extremely sad and unfortunate.The reason I myself do not have any projects published at GitHub, is the same why I still feel the need to use a pseudonym instead of my real name; the after effects of several burnouts and repeated bouts of depression, due to adopting a completely unhealthy obsession with work, and doing so in unhealthy work environments and environments completely unsuitable to my own personality. I also have lingering issues with Microsoft (thrice burned by their past actions, not with just regarding Linux, but WordPerfect also), but it does look that Microsoft – GitHub being a subsidiary of Microsoft – has made a significant change in their business approach to open source and services like GitHub, so my attitude is changing, slowly.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 09:27:29 am
content: The one thing that does irk me with github projects tho is when there are no precompiled binaries provided on the github page.For little windows apps please provide a ready to run exe under the releases. It can be years old for all i care, as long as i have something i can just simply download and run. I don't want to faf about with getting the thing to compile just so that i can run it and find out this doesn't actually do what i needed it to do. Especially if its some crazy convoluted build process that is not just "Open in VisualStudio and press run"For things like python it is different since it doesn't actually compile. But a well set up project will include an list of pip packages required (that is tested accurate and has version numbers) and clearly say if it works on windows or linux or both.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 11:39:20 am
content: I agree with that.You find a great project, try to compile and spend a whole afternoon tearing your hair appart.Ahh you need 2938747282 dependencies, but can't be satisfied because x y z packages are now obsolete.Or just updated, causing (f(x)= x*1749592³¹⁹) errors you have no damn idea about.Ok let's try some tricks I found in the forum:*Kernel panic*Take f*** hard disk out and throw away to L2 orbit.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 12:07:15 pm
content: I use git a lot. Both for hardware and software.At work we use git on AWS. For private projects I use Gitlab.(moved all projects away from github when ms bought it...)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2022, 01:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on April 09, 2022, 09:27:29 amAnd even then.. do you have the right VS version installed? is the project compatible or need to be updated (and there will definetly be issues) do you have the correct framework version installed?ugh.just provide binaries please

author: tepalia02
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2022, 11:17:13 am
content: I do not have a github account. But I am thankful to that for providing Arduino libraries for free.