Tablet Oscilloscope-tbook, a new kind DSO. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:51:49 am
content: hello, here i would like to introduce a new kind DSO to you. Tablet Oscilloscope-tbook series.first, see the appearence. 10.1 inches, full touch. no knobs and button. 4 channels.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:55:30 am
content: I don't see it going over well. People want knobs. Also you gave no specs.Does it have wifi? Does it have a full OS like Windows 7/8, mini OS like RT or CE, Linux, custom?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:58:19 am
content: To make this absolutely clear:Quote from: Micsig on October 24, 2013, 02:51:49 amFuck, no.No knobs, no sale.And really, how is this different from all the DSO Nano junk people try pushing to inexperienced beginners?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:02:31 am
content: Key features::)Select from 70MHZ,100MHz,150MHz,200MHz,300MHz,350MHz,500MHz,600MHz,1GHz bandwidth models;)1GSa/s to5GSa / S real time sampling rate;:D200,000wfms/s max waveform capture rate18 to 360Mpts memory depth?::)Support multi-language, adjust the viewing mode with different brightness Automaticallypart of optional SW? support UART, LIN, CAN, SPI, I2C, I2S, 1553B, and 429 serial bus triggering and decoding? Support WIFI, LAN, USB2.0 connectivity and HD video analysis? Integration of 5 ½ and 6 ½ high-precision multimeter, recorder and function waveform generator.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:06:05 am
content: Knobs and buttons arereallyneeded.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:08:29 am
content: How 'bout a video of someone using it so we can see waveform update and general usability?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:09:37 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 24, 2013, 03:02:31 amQuote from: Bored@Work on October 24, 2013, 02:58:19 amBut ..but ... its capable of an impressive 1 Ginga Munga Hurtz ...

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:09:46 am
content: Does it have an external trigger?Starting price?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:20:35 am
content: It's a portable or rather a large handheld (battery and optional isolated inputs), I guess it depends on how you look at it but few if any handhelds have knobs. Like everything it's a wait and see.http://www.micsig.com/Pro_View.asp?News_ID=29

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:21:10 am
content: As well as the "1GMHz" it boasts "up to" 5GSa/s, 200,000wfms/s and 360Mpts memory depth. Oh, and an integrated 6 1/2 digit multimeter and a waveform generator.http://micsig.gmc.globalmarket.com/products/details/micsig-tablet-oscilloscope-tbook-series-to72-70m-2-channels-3355852.htmlAll of these world-class specifications are repeated three times on the page, so they must be true...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:50:27 am
content: That's quite the little thing. I don't see fitting much internal shielding in there. So... your specs look decent, if they're true, but quote me this one: noise floor. How much of its own clock and power crap gets picked up? I want to be able to look at a signal at 10mV/div without having to guess how much of what I see is actually coming up the probe cable.Quote from: Bored@Work on October 24, 2013, 02:58:19 amThis was my first thought as well. But once in a while, touchscreen is done right. Can you do it right? I don't just want LCD buttons to smear my fingers on, I want an intuitive touch interface with proper tactile manipulation of the data. Show it in use!Also... can a few heavy, thick cables plugged into it knock it down? There is definitely an advantage to equipment filled with bricks...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:17:18 am
content: Very original.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 am
content: BTW, Micsig are not spamming the forum, they have permission to post here.The form factor aside, the specs seem very impressive for a new company.I do wonder where they get their 1GHz front end from, and 300K/wfmssec, I'm mean, that sort of bandwidth and speed doesn't just pop out of nowhere from scratch from a new company.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:23:02 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 24, 2013, 03:50:27 amYes. How long would this puppy last in a typical lab before going walkabout and tucked away in someones draw...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:26:09 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on October 24, 2013, 03:06:05 amAs for knobs, well, I don't know of any hand held scope on the market that has knobs?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:26:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amIsn't that in 1 GHz range, the BNC is simply not the right connector anymore ?Unless its a "GMHz", then I don't have any clue at all.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:26:38 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 24, 2013, 02:51:49 amYou found EEVBlog - good first step.Now - if you want to sell some of these the next step is to send one to Dave for a proper review..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:27:44 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on October 24, 2013, 03:09:46 amWith 4 channels you don't need external trigger.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:30:47 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on October 24, 2013, 04:26:38 amLittle gadgets like this? Nah.... send 'em to Mike Harrison.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:36:11 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 24, 2013, 04:26:21 amFor ordinary Joe Bloggs ones. There are special versions of the BNC that can go to 1GHz no problems, in fact, over 4GHz.http://www.te.com/content/dam/te/global/english/industries/enterprise-network-solutions/knowledge-center/documents/enterprise-white-paper-design-fundamentals-for-high-bandwidth-bnc-connectors-106088ae.pdfhttp://www.amphenolrf.com/products/bnc.asp?N=0&sid=526863003E0B617F&

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:49:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:27:44 amThey have a whole range 2-4 channels and various bandwidths

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 05:40:24 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on October 24, 2013, 03:08:29 amwe are making it, but it will take some time. thanks.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 05:42:36 am
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on October 24, 2013, 03:06:05 amseveral years ago, we used the button cell phone, but now we are using the touch cell phone.which is eaiser and more convenient, and you will choose.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 05:44:01 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 24, 2013, 03:09:37 ami have to say, i am stuip and lazy, but i will change...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 05:53:07 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:26:09 amThat's why I don't want handheld scopes. But this one can't even be hand-held properly.It is a 60 mm thick 10" tablet, weighting 1.8 kg. Just some kind of grove on the top back side, no grip, and the probe cables going out to the left.So if you are a right hander you can't just hold that thing in your left hand and keep fondling it with your right hand. If you change hands, you'll quickly get tired holding that 60 mm brick in your right hand and touching with the left. You can't hold it in both hands and try to touch-operate it with your thumbs, unless you have super large thumbs.So you have to have it lying flat or standing on its tilt. This thing is at best portable.And while we are at it:CAT rating? Independently verified?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:10:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amI'll withold further judgement until you or Mike takes one apart and shows us what's inside.But Micsig, show us a video of the device working. Hopefully not a professionally done marketing video.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:10:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amthe company is new, but ppl behind that company know for sure what they doing.On the website there is a picture of their "low end" MS310 handheld PCB, not many details on it, but one can see 4x Intersil ADCs (ISLA118P50), the FPGA of course, TI A8 ARM i guess and lot of DDR3. It looks like they picked up good and universal combination, when this is really picture of MS310 then i would say MS7xx (so the "high end" handheld) does have exact the same PCB.Now i have to convince my wife that we don't need new winter clothes but new DSO

author: davidefa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:19:07 am
content: Nice specs for both the tablet and handheld scopes, can you provide a link to the manuals of both?P.S. forgot to ask: are the scopes already available? Where to find those scopes ( in europe preferably )?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:35:59 am
content: Is it possible you show 5GSa/s go to 360M memory.can you do one test. Take 500MHz signal (example square) wave and capture it in real time 5GSa/s to 360M memory and show this stored file and show documents about this test.Also please show this 200 000 captured waveforms in second update rate.Can you show it can display 200000 captured waveforms on the display.It is captured anddisplayedwaveforms. In this case, how many data points is in real is one waveform.Make test. Run example 200kHz square where example every 200000's pulse is half size.Run scope one second and stop it. You can now see this one bad pulse also. Ok, you propably can not see. Run ten seconds. Can you now see it. Run test 10 times. Every test period you find this bad pulse from memory (?) or just on the TFT(?) -- better if directly in diplayed area, becouse realtime display area is what we normally watch in practice work.Can it give out 200000kHz from trigger out. (btw, wfms/s means displayed waveforms /s. It is not trigger out alone if it do not also "draw" it to display (proofments somehow that it collect 200000 captured wafeforms in second to display memory. This is amazing high value if it is real truth without any specs trics)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 09:08:12 am
content: There are some applications where touchscreens really suck because they require you to be looking at the screen - in-car systems come to mind.However for a scope, you will pretty much always be looking at the screen when making any adjustment. The only exception I can think of is pressing a start/stop button while holding a probe - and this could be addressed by having this function as  a large button at the corner with audio feedback.A touchscreen would be better than the button interface used on pretty much all portable scopes. Knobs on a scope are more about familiarity than useability -if done well, a touchscreen could be as good if not better than knobs, but it does require good UI design and fast implementation. A slow,laggy TS would be complete game-over.I have yet to seeanyChinese- designed product with a UI that's been designed rather than just thrown together, and for something like this, the UI design and implementation is extremely important, so I'm not holding out much hope. We need to see a video of it being used.QuoteThat's a stupid number of different options - half that number would make more senseFrom the pics the case looks like cheap ABS.Considering they haven't even bothered to get a native English speaker to proof-read their website, I really don't hold out much hope, unless they prove to be really responsive to user feedback and issue regular firmware updates, again something we've never seen from any Chinese test equipment company so far.Something like this from any manufacturerwillhave bugs and features which can be improved, so the response and committment to improvement is what distinguishes a good manufacturer from a cheapskate box-shifter.I hope I'm proved wrong, but the odds seem against...

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 10:18:20 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 24, 2013, 03:09:37 amIf your Ginga Munga hurts then turn off your computer and go see a doctor

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 10:31:36 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 24, 2013, 05:53:07 amAccording to the spec at the Micsig website, max input 300V CAT III and channel isolation at 1000V CAT II or 600V CAT III. But they don't use the fully isolated BNC connector, and with that exposed metal isn't that dangerous and misleading ?About verification, you guess is as good as mine.

author: pinkysbrein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 10:36:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amThe 300kwfmss is the easy bit... that most low end scopes used small/slow memory and/or atrocious programming is inexcusable. There is no shortage of engineers capable of working with ddr2/3 and decent programmers.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 10:44:10 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 24, 2013, 10:31:36 amDepends on the probe - if the channels are isolated, unused exposed BNCs are not a hazard. I hate those stupid plastic BNCs - too fragile.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 11:35:16 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 24, 2013, 09:08:12 amCould this simply be the result of "binning" finished scopes based on testing results? e.g. their 200MHz scope only tests to 200MHz 5/10 times, the rest can be sold cheaper.edit: fix quoting; need better mobile app

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 11:45:53 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 24, 2013, 10:44:10 amAgreed on the fragility, but I don't think they'd get this past UL. I wouldn't want to (un)plug the connector with 1000 V CAT II on the shield. Not that a sensible person would do that, but safety requires a certain degree of idiot proofing, like warning people that try to measure voltage with their DMM leads in the current jack.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 11:59:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amThe Chinese are excellent reverse-engineers...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:15:17 pm
content: Quote from: cloudscapes on October 24, 2013, 03:06:05 amNot really. IMHO a touchscreen has much more possibilities of offering a good interface than knobs. The tbook has a capacitive touchscreen so they can implement multi-touch functions to zoom in/out.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 24, 2013, 01:15:17 pmTell that to my aching wrist. I think it's an individual thing; I've seriously messed my wrist wrestling with Reason (music production software) when I haven't had my MIDI controllers with me (so I'm tweaking virtual knobs and sliders on my laptop's trackpad instead of real ones).

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:49:16 pm
content: I wonder if they're running Android on it...Angry Birds, now on your oscilloscope!

author: elex_enthusiast
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:54:43 pm
content: why dont they send to someone like dave to have it reviewed? it would be a good DSO if it meet its specs. well it could hit the market if it could compete to other manufacturers.. how about the price range? if it cost much cheaper than leading manufacturers it would be attractive to entry level like me...how i wish to have one on my bench....

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 01:58:51 pm
content: In this forum some people not lost a detail, and I love that. Noticed how reaches the signal from the input stage (see attached).Micsig pleasewe want a full review and tear down, send a tBook and a MS720 to Dave, he will do it better than anyone. We are a very demanding audience...- The specifications look good, but under what conditions are met?- How long has this products in the market?- And of course we also want to know the prices.By the way I can't register on your website:Code:Microsoft JET Database Engine ?? '80004005''d:\web\ftp-maikexin\DataBase\Web_Data.mdb'?????????? ?????????????????????????????/Include_Files/Ccnt.asp?? 30

author: elex_enthusiast
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:01:17 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on October 24, 2013, 01:49:16 pmhow about plants vs. zombies..haha

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:03:03 pm
content: I suppose the other thing you can't do with a TS is rest your hand on one know while twiddling another, or be twiddling a knob while foussing on a waveform detail.Still, TS beats buttons, but knobs beat both. Small size also has an influence....

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:05:17 pm
content: Funny how everyone is volunteering Dave's time. Dave would probably do a teardown and maybe a first impressions video, Mike might do a review and teardown. Both have enough experience and credibility to do a good job, in my opinion. If I were a manufacturer, I would offer to send a scope to both.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 24, 2013, 01:26:40 pmYou really can't compare a trackpad with a touchscreen. Apples and oranges... Trackpads suck so bad I always have a mouse with a laptop.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 24, 2013, 02:05:17 pmalm you say it for me? Because for myself, well, double review.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:27:44 pm
content: Even then it really depends on the person and how you use it. I'm exactly the opposite - I hate using a mouse with a laptop. Really, I hate using a mouseperiod. Crappy interface, whose dumb idea was it to communicate with the computer using a dead rodent tied to a port?I love that the pad is right underneath the keyboard. I can switch back and forth between them without even moving my arm.

author: pinkysbrein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:35:11 pm
content: They should really offer an active probe (and a dedicated 50 Ohm input) for the GHz bandwidth scopes.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:41:48 pm
content: I haven't been able to find any prices for this new scope but here are some prices I found for some of their handheld, ScopeMeter-like products:http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=Micsig&initiative_id=SB_20131024053813&SearchText=Micsig&initiative_id=SB_20131024053813

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: pinkysbrein on October 24, 2013, 02:35:11 pmGood point. The 1 Mohm // 15 pF input impedance wouldn't even work with the Agilent/Tek/Lecroy 500 MHz Hi-Z passive probes (the only ones I'd trust to kind of meet that 500 MHz spec), since most only compensate up to 12 pF or so. It looks like the included probes are 250 MHz. How are you supposed to acquire a 1 GHz signal? I think Tek makes a 1 GHz high-Z passive probe, but I doubt it uses a standard BNC input and four of them may cost more than this scope. In general you'd use active or resistive divider probes at these kind of speeds, so at least provide a 50 ohm input option so people can use / hack third-party active probes. A 50 ohm feed-through terminator isn't going to perform well at 1 GHz either, I think the Pomona one is only specified up to 500 MHz or so (even without a capacitive scope input on the other end).

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 02:55:05 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 24, 2013, 02:47:40 pmRight, I know because I have one. [POMONA ELECT 4119-50, TERM 50ohm 2W]Quote from: JDubU on October 24, 2013, 02:41:48 pmI see, is the price for the Genuine Micsig.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:02:17 pm
content: There is another possibility for a control interface in addition to the touch screen. A little box with two or three knobs and a few buttons that connects to the main scope with bluetooth. Then you can put the control right where you are working and control important things where you are and not need to awkward actions on a touch screen. It doesn't need to have too much, maybe two knobs, two or three buttons.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:30:23 pm
content: Quote from: pinkysbrein on October 24, 2013, 02:35:11 pmAccording to the specs these scopes have no 50 Ohm inputs. This makes them useless for frequencies over 100MHz. A high impedance passive probe loads signals over 100MHz too much and low impedance passive divider / active HF probes need a 50 Ohm input.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: JDubU on October 24, 2013, 02:41:48 pmEither someone has slipped a decimal point on those prices or they are on the wrong planet.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 03:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 24, 2013, 03:38:19 pmLOL ... Is true, but are Genuine Micsig.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: Carrington on October 24, 2013, 03:54:55 pmJust change supplier. At the other end of the scale:http://small-order.hktdc.com/small-order-suppliers-products/Micsig-Handheld-Oscilloscope/en/1X086C3X/2200368/

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 24, 2013, 04:02:25 pmWholesale Price:Order Quantity (piece(s)) Price per piece Lead Time5 USD 1.00 5 year(s)And the lead time is unbeatable...

author: daveshah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 04:36:49 pm
content: Looking at taobao, the Micsig handheld scopes vary in price from 9676 RMB ($1591) for a MS310IT to 32880 RMB ($5406) for a MS610R.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:14:24 pm
content: Three things I have found difficulty in with using touchscreens (Ipad) :As said , they are difficult to use if your hands are larger .Often your hand obscures your view when placed over the target area .Any material on the hands is smeared over the screen , not good in a workshop environment (although a filthy front panel is not so good it doesn't generally affect use on normal physical interface DSO) .

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:19:47 pm
content: I love BNC connectors, but isn‘t there the small risk of electrocution when BNC’s are used on a probable device that doesn’t have proper ground/earth?Some Scope Probes have exposed metal connectors, so if the Unit Under Test (UUT) has a ground/earth fault then the engineer could risk electrocution, if the connector is touched while still connected to the UUT.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:59:34 pm
content: Quote from: MasterOfNone on October 24, 2013, 07:19:47 pmThat's why my Fluke Scopemeter has automatically retracting plastic shrouds that cover the barrel of the BNC connectors. The UUT ground potential in not exposed anywhere on this scope.The probes are also fully insulated.

author: walshms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:09:01 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:26:09 amMen like to play with knobs.Sorry... couldn't resist.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:24:19 pm
content: I suppose someone could just make a backpack for an android or apple tablet that has all the dsp and fpga goodness.When I first saw this I thought, OK mount a Hantek scope in a box and mount it to a Microsoft Surface tablet.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:26:14 pm
content: Quote from: Yago on October 24, 2013, 07:14:24 pmThe surface is most likely glass so wiping it clean is a piece of cake. Another advantage is that buttons won't stick, no dirt gets into switches, etc.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on October 24, 2013, 11:59:17 amGiven the fact that so many companies prefer to outsource their production to China and thereabouts, just to make a cent more profit, it stands to question that they really need to do that much reverse engineering at all. Right now "we" are more than happy to hand over our designs to them, just so they can manufacture it cheaply for us.Greetings,chris

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:36:32 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 24, 2013, 02:27:44 pmWhose idea?http://www.dougengelbart.org/firsts/dougs-1968-demo.html... and video conferencing on a computer, while collaborating on the same document, and a boatload of other stuff that we just now consider "advanced".Greetings,Chris

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 12:16:39 am
content: Might be interesting to see if their isolation prevents a 300v spiky signal on the probe ground messing up the (presumably capacitive) touchsreen.Just wondering about the ratio of capacitance across the isolation barrier to touch capacitance - I'd be impressed if it didn't cause at least some jitter.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:14:46 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 24, 2013, 02:55:30 amWIFI is optional. only Android system, no OS above your mentioned. Android is optional too.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:20:02 am
content: Quote from: rolycat on October 24, 2013, 03:21:10 am

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:33:25 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 24, 2013, 04:17:18 amour name is from Micro and Signal, is there any problem? do your mean the font is simliar?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:35:59 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on October 24, 2013, 04:26:38 amit is highly appreciated your suggestion.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:40:09 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 24, 2013, 07:10:49 amn

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:47:20 am
content: Quote from: davidefa on October 24, 2013, 08:19:07 amManuals will be uploaded to our web later, pls continue to foucs on us.Our partners will put the advisement, pls wait.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:00:07 am
content: Quote from: elex_enthusiast on October 24, 2013, 01:54:43 pmthanks for your advice. i will provide you a big discount.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:04:17 am
content: Quote from: alm on October 24, 2013, 02:05:17 pmGood idea

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:12:06 am
content: hmm, cat 3 300V, hello 4kV impulses?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:27:58 am
content: Quote from: Yago on October 24, 2013, 07:14:24 pmthe pity you did not come tho Hong Kong fair, or you will find it is different from your imagination

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:57:11 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 24, 2013, 02:20:12 pmI see some of your point, but also disagree. I make the same motions on my iPad as I do on the trackpad to do knob twiddling, it's that I'm holding my hand in an awkward position and moving only my finger and wrist which causes the strain; other's mileage may vary, but I'll personally take a physical knob or slider any day over a touch interface, otherwise I wouldn't spend my money on MIDI controllers, I'd use my iPads for that.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 07:53:07 am
content: Maybe I am the only one but I am seriously wondering what/who the target audience is?1) It is handheld/portable2) If set on its stand it is at an inversed angle that makes no sense to have on a bench so still for portable use on the floor/ground.3) The price will be probably much higer then for instance a Rigol 2000 since it has a multitouch lcd display and batteriesSo adding those, it looks to me that the target audience is the professional mobile installer/service person?So for a hobbyist as myself it has little interest, I probably need a few days a year a portable scope and then a Rigol is portable enough as long as there is mains in the vicinity.What am I missing, where would you as a hobbyist use it for and find the higher price worthwhile?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 08:27:26 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on October 25, 2013, 07:53:07 amGood question - if marketed as a portable, it needs to have something like a rubber boot for ruggedness, as well as being able to use handheld.If it's primarily aimed at bench use, it has to be either cheaper or better than the competition, i.e. Rigol x000 series.Just being a tablet with a touchscreen is not a useful benefit in itself, in fact in many ways it is a disadvantage.The scope market is not as easily persuaded by fancy features as the general phone & computing market - if Apple made a scope I doubt many people would buy it.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 08:33:23 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 25, 2013, 08:27:26 amMILLIONS would buy it. And they'd all be under 25, most under 18."Mummy! Daddy! Lisa said her parents were getting her an iScilloscope for Christmas! Why can't I have one too?!"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 09:02:36 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 25, 2013, 08:27:26 amA 10" 1024*600 screen can be compelling for some people, if they use all the real-estate of course, but I see no evidence of that. In fact aI see a fair bit of wasted space. Even if it can be expanded full screen you must lose some of that screen again to pop up the controls every time you need them. That would get old real quick.It might be handy for those who like the move the scope around the bench/lab a lot?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 10:02:35 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 25, 2013, 02:33:25 amBoth appear to be Nimbus Sans L Black Italic or Helvetica Italic.http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/nimbus-sans/l-black-italic/

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 11:06:27 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 25, 2013, 03:00:07 amHey, I also want a great discount, please!

author: Attorney
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 01:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 24, 2013, 02:51:49 amMicSig,Where can we find pricing, availability, and ordering detail? Thanks!Paul

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 01:20:45 pm
content: MicSig,Are there any videos that show this scope working?Jay_Diddy_B

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 01:22:22 pm
content: If you send me a 1GHz model I can keep, I'll do a review in Canadian English :-)Good luck with the product launch, you folk must have put a lot of work into this.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:28:37 pm
content: I will up the offer to do a Spanish, Canadian English, and Chilean review!

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:42:34 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 25, 2013, 02:28:37 pmThis guy takes advantage...Saludos Lightages.

author: cavlovic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 02:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 25, 2013, 02:28:37 pmI will "down" the offer, to do no review and keep it.Even if I got one I wouldn't know how to do a review

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:14:46 pm
content: I don't see probe compensation on it. Is it there?Also, ruggedness. This will be moved around, dropped and stuff.To be honest I'm with knobs and buttons. Sometimes you just cannot look what you are pushing, because you keep your probe on the 0.5mm pin of that IC, making a trigger with your other hand, and with your third hand you stop the screen update.

author: cavlovic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 03:16:25 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 25, 2013, 03:14:46 pmThat's why it's not a replacement for bench scopes, though it can be 95% of the time.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 04:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 24, 2013, 11:35:16 amI really doubt it, unless they are overclocking the ADCs to the bleeding edge.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 04:28:02 pm
content: I'd love to try and see how the touchscreen works. I have high expectations of it. Whether its a bench or portable scope doesn't seem like much an issue to me. It seems to have all the features a proper scope has nowadays.I could do the review in Dutch. Good for the Netherlands, the west half of Belgium, Suriname and not to forget some small islands near the coast of Venezuela.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 04:35:10 pm
content: if the touchscreen is done right this could be very handy.Multifinger zoom , drag traces around. if you scroll it should have that apple scroll feel where it starts fast and decays slowly , hitting the end springs back.you dont really need hard buttons or knobs. but, the touchscreen interface needs ot be done right.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:18:42 pm
content: So given that this is a first time product, I hope MicSig (if they send one out for review) take the critical parts of the review as a way to improve the unit.As for ruggedness take any of the Rigols, Agilents, Teks and drop from a meter onto a cement floor. Even if designed for it (like the handhelds) and get a friend to take a picture of your face while doing it, it must belong to you and not your boss. These are delicate instruments by any standard.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:24:10 pm
content: Add a front panel with buttons and knobs and you will get a good scope.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:42:06 pm
content: Oh man this topic is turning into a "all freeloaders gather" topic, how can I unsubscribe this topic

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:52:13 pm
content: I think anytime there is a push to sell , but almost no answers to direct questions , its going to go down hill fast .Very selective / limited answers to 1 or 2 questions , leave us lots of room for negative comments .This being my 1 comment since the beginning of thread , still waiting for price , availability & spec's ?They may not have been ready with a video demonstration etc. BUT

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 25, 2013, 02:28:37 pmI counter with English, French and Japanese.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 25, 2013, 06:16:53 pmGrrr. Forum turned all my kanji into "?".Hai, honto ni boku ha nihongo ga hanasemasu, demo foruma de romaji ha dekimasu dake. :p

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on October 25, 2013, 05:42:06 pmCome on, you can't see we're kidding?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:45:10 pm
content: Quote from: Carrington on October 25, 2013, 02:42:34 pmI'll review it in Texan, Y'all!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 07:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on October 25, 2013, 05:42:06 pmYou're just upset I beat you to offer a review in Dutch O0

author: DarkPrince
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 07:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 25, 2013, 04:35:10 pmI had the same thought, free_electron. If they don't reduce computation power to the bare minimal for the UI responsiveness, proper touch sensitivity, and design the UI to be usable it can in fact be as fluent as a real knob. Will that happen? I sure do hope so. I think they'd be the first. I'd almost think that would be the more difficult task than the analog front-end/digitizing section.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 08:54:22 pm
content: Despite all the noise on this thread, or or maybe actually because of it, there is obviously much interest in this new series of scopes. If it is done right and the price is right it could be agodgood seller.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 08:55:09 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 25, 2013, 08:54:22 pmAnd we have seen no evidence of either yet

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 09:30:56 pm
content: Yes, until now the prices are a bit absurd. And I don't know, but since it's Friday, we may not know anything from the official source until Monday.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 09:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 25, 2013, 08:55:09 pmI am not sure if you are poking fun at my typo or not, but I corrected it

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 12:23:55 am
content: Maybe they could offer a desk dock with knobs on it.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 12:53:10 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2013, 04:21:35 amOk, permission is clear, but does Micsig is the official rep ?Although there are many questions are not worth replying, but so far the replies to those simple yet serious inquiries are not there, and for sure it has nothing to do with language barrier.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 01:25:38 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 25, 2013, 09:36:03 pmDidn't even spot that - just saying we have seen neither evidence of it being done right nor it having the right pricing. Or even existing in any tangible form. (just like your typo!)

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 01:53:27 am
content: Hi,Does anybody have any concerns that this is similar to Mu Optics?It is pretty hard to engineer a scope with these specs.Jay_Diddy_B

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 03:03:50 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on October 26, 2013, 01:53:27 amYes. Those were exactly my first thoughts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this turns out to be vaporware.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 04:48:47 am
content: Looks like they are hiring.http://www.micsig.com/News_Type.asp?Type_ID=72

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 05:50:15 am
content: Hi,I am surprised that Micsig produces no hits on eBay.Jay_Diddy_B

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 05:58:10 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on October 26, 2013, 01:53:27 amSince they have theprototyerr ... mockup that made from those picture frame plastic box with back stand, 4 holes drilled with that 4 bnc connectors installed, glued in a cheap tablet + running a static & dummy app showing those signals, c'mon, you have to admit this is better than Mu Optics which don't have anything to show until now, right ?

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 06:38:04 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 26, 2013, 05:58:10 amThe mockup in B@W's photo didn't even have probes plugged inHard to believe this is a tangible product.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 06:57:06 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on October 26, 2013, 12:53:10 amThe person behind the "micsig" account on the forum is the international sales director, so yeah, pretty official.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 06:59:19 am
content: Quote from: grenert on October 26, 2013, 06:38:04 amIt has been shown at a Hong Kong trade show, and won a silver award, so seems tangible enough.http://www.hkeia.org/Eng/hkeia_activities/2013/20131013_hkeiaaward_e.htmlNot uncommon to have "pre-release" products shown at such trade show, with no pricing or further delivery info available yet. So this is probably the case here.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 08:57:26 am
content: Even the shortest video of it working would add a lot of credibility.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 10:45:45 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 25, 2013, 04:35:10 pmAgreed. Zoom horizontally = adjust time/div, zoom vertically = adjust volts/div, and scroll to adjust the position sounds like a reasonable choice. One thing it really needs is a "snap" function since touchscreens are by default not designed for precise input and otherwise it would be almost impossible to e.g. get 1ms/div instead of jumping between something like 1.04 and 0.98.They've mentioned it runs Android so there will be a lot of existing code they can leverage for this type of functionality. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 12:15:09 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on October 26, 2013, 10:45:45 amAnd maybe also some unnecessary bloat that increases startup and response time...I've never used Android so don't know what it's like in that respect

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 12:55:13 pm
content: Sorry in advance Dave" The person behind the "micsig" account on the forum is the international sales director, so yeah, pretty official. "There's the problem , sales director , to those that use this stuff [ not sell it ] we would come to a forum with as much detail at the ready to help the sale , sales .At least to my mind .I would rather be poor , homeless and destitute , than be in sales .

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 01:51:42 pm
content: I'd be very interested to see it in action!+1 for sending one to Mike to review - if you dare ;-) I so loved his "QDso pocket oscilloscope review" I could feel his frustration through my laptop screen.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 03:47:45 pm
content: As the curiosity is killing me, I searched the web:For example:- MS720CS price is about 41160 Rubles or ~ 930€ or ~ 1280USD.Source:http://www.sea.com.ua/izmeritelnye-pribory/ostsillografy-tsifrovye-portativnyeAnd can be contrasted with Hantek prices, for example:- DSO1202B price is about 5520 Rubles or ~ 126€or ~174USD.I think that now we should extrapolate these prices, because I don't think that the DSO1202B in EU cost ~ 125€.As reference:- DSO1202B price is 639.715€, i.e.: x5 -> MS720CS EU price ~ 4650€.Source:http://www.tme.eu/en/details/dso1202b/portable-oscilloscopes-scopometers/hantek/Also this company is registered at europages:http://www.europages.co.uk/SHENZHEN-MICSIG-INSTRUMENTS-CO-LTD/00000003999000-269142001.htmlSomewhere I read: Micsig philosophy it is based on competitiveness and innovative:Source:http://www.ittsb.eu/forum/index.php?topic=529.0And following the previous joke (to not get bored), for the Greek language, they already have a candidate.And one question. Is it really so hard to achieve these specifications?

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 04:37:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 26, 2013, 06:59:19 amThe same people who voted for the Micsig also voted for awards for bluetooth heart rate monitoring earphones and a breast pump!I would bet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a functional oscilloscope and a tablet with a pretty demo running.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 04:54:39 pm
content: In that trade show pic, there are no probes plugged in.The pictures look to me to be a bit too clean to be showing a real LCD display. Or it could just be a mockup image displayed on any tablet.My bet is they don't have anything useable yet.Video or it doesn't exist

author: pinkysbrein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 05:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: Carrington on October 26, 2013, 03:47:45 pmThe greater than a couple 100 MHz models ... yeah. Rigol for instance doesn't offer above 600 MHz with "high" impedance probes. They promise all the way up to 1 GHz without even offering a probe capable of it, and without a 50 Ohm input for a Lo-Z or active probe.What faith can we have in a bandwidth spec for which they don't even deliver a probe to meet it?PS. that all the channels can be isolated is very interesting BTW. I wonder how they handle that, it seems unlikely they duplicate all the signal processing ... so they have to get 1.25 GB/s per channel across galvanic isolation for the highest end model.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 08:14:39 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 26, 2013, 04:54:39 pmThat's one of the things I noticed too. I would take it step further and say that even the tablet looks an awful lot like a CAD image.Quote from: pinkysbrein on October 26, 2013, 05:43:40 pmYou often find some pretty amazing features on vaporware productsThey may be considering (or actually) working on something of this sort, and getting some feedback on its potential market. From everything seen here, I'd bet no such hardware exists at this moment or any time soon.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2013, 09:03:52 pm
content: so I've been thinking more about the formfactor.is it just me or does 10" seem a little cramped if you have to include both the data display and all the buttons you typically wantthe agilent 2000s/3000s use an 8.5" display and about an additional ~60% of the screen's area in buttonsthe rigol 2000s use an 8" display and also 60-70% of the screen's area in buttonsand from the photo, there doesn't seem to be much going on... maybe as a really niche product it could work with its current formfactoror with people who don't mind dealing with menus upon menus

author: zlabsoft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 11:05:24 am
content: Can I hack the 70MHz model to he higher banwidth later? I feel disappointed if it doesn't.What's the estimate price?

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 11:33:31 am
content: It looks as though the micsig international sales director has been hard at work. The tablet page in the available products section has now vanished and the announcement page has been revised and has now sprouted a bunch of irritating feedback popups (all in Chinese).One can't help feeling that the headline specifications are somewhat aspirational, considering that none of the existing scopes operates at more than 200MHz and 2GS/s.How surprising would it be it the new tablet scope is "initially" only made available with similar bandwidth to their existing products and a patched together user interface with serious usability issues?

author: zlabsoft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 11:57:41 am
content: For those oldies like knobes, the developer can make a frame to include then so that it work & feel like traditional DSO, One can refer to SONY QX10/100 as example.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 12:01:38 pm
content: Quote from: pinkysbrein on October 26, 2013, 05:43:40 pmCoincidentally, that's also the raw bandwidth of 10Gbit Ethernet, which can run over optical fiber. Not saying that's what they've done here, but it's what comes to mind as an existing technology for galvanically isolated 1.25GB/s links.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 09:23:31 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 25, 2013, 06:45:10 pmJust wanted to say, even though I'm joking around, I *really would* do an English/French/Japanese review if given one :-).I don't mind a fair exchange ;-)(never said I *wasn't* a freeloader)

author: carloscuev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 03:04:19 am
content: Just got this from a seller:QuoteI'm guessing the tBook 207 is the 70Mhz model, as their MS207 is 70Mhz:http://www.globalmarket.com/product-info/micsig-dso-handheld-oscillosopes-3122364.html

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 03:07:19 am
content: Intriguing. Better value than an iPad.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 07:28:03 am
content: Quote from: grenert on October 26, 2013, 04:37:50 pmcould you tell us what will you bet on?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 07:31:34 am
content: Quote from: grenert on October 26, 2013, 04:37:50 pmI believe you never go to Hong Kong fair. you can go to HKTDC website to learn HIIEA award info first, then you will know that if there are same people to vote.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 08:29:23 am
content: I'd say most of us don't make it to HK often.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 08:45:04 am
content: Micsig, are you planning to demo your product anywhere in North America any time soon?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 09:56:31 am
content: I don't know who will ever buy this Micsig touch oscilloscope. It is not a cheap scope for beginners. Professionals will buy a scope with proper front panel. A rotary encoder is much better than a touch screen, especially for a big, expensive scope not designed for holding in your hand.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:03:00 am
content: Micsig - Just one question - Why have you not shown any video of this thing working?Until we see it actually working, the only conclusion we can draw is that it doesn't yet exist in a useable form.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:08:30 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 31, 2013, 10:03:00 amThe fact that they're based in Shenzen doesn't really instill a lot of confidence.Time to go buy a Fuke Multimeter and a Wriggle Oscilloscope.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:09:44 am
content: In 1980s, Hewlett Packard came up with a futuristic and revolutionary scope with (almost) no knobs. But it was probably not much successful, so they abandoned this concept and started using knobs, as they do till today.In early 1990s they introduced the well known 54600 series that had many rotary encoders and looked like an analog scope.Engineers will never get used to a special knob-less front panel.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:12:19 am
content: Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on October 26, 2013, 05:50:15 amMicsig will control the sales channel very carefully. we will try our best to protect our distributors and the end user benefits .

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:13:04 am
content: I've noticed those 54000 series scopes tend to sell for less than other scopes of that vintage. I guess people don't want them.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:15:55 am
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 31, 2013, 08:45:04 amyes ,we will. we are preparing for many exhibitions and product demo vedio. and try to release them earlier.By the way, i do not want to make the same mistake like GMHz....so,, i will be very carefull this time..

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 10:19:31 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 31, 2013, 10:13:04 amMaybe because many of them have those poor 20MS/s ADCs.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 11:41:22 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on October 31, 2013, 09:56:31 amSince no pricing has been announced yet, AFAIK, how did you arrive at this conclusion?QuoteAnd who is to say a touch screen is not a "proper" front panel (control surface)? You? Based on what experience?QuoteThat's one opinion. And it might even be correct.But I'd want to actually see and try the alternative, before passing judgement.QuoteI missed any claim by Micsig that these were designed to be hand-held.Where did you see that? In fact, since they already have an entire line of scopes specifically designed to be hand-held, I'd think these might be expected to be used somewhat differently.And again, you've decided that these will be expensive scopes. I'm not sure how, other than you seem to enjoy bashing a product that has been announced, but not yet released.To be clear, I'm just as interested as anyone else here in getting some questions answered, and seeing these in operation. But there's been no claim these are shipping yet, and it's apparent that these are pre-release announcements, intended to make folks aware ofupcoming products. That's not at all unusual, though many of use here would like to hear that they're shipping, along with prices, the minute we've discovered they exist (or will soon).We're an impatient lot.I'm willing to wait a bit, and see what they've come up with. It could be really slick, or it could be a miss. Tactile feedback from knobs and buttons can be very useful (we're certainly used to it), but a direct-manipulation interface where you interact directly with the on-screen objects may have some benefits as well. We won't know that until we get a chance to test it and see. The success of this will totally hinge on their UI, and how well they pull it off. It could be really great, and change the minds of some nay-sayers here. Or it could be blah, and fade out quickly.Why not wait and see, rather than coming to (negative) conclusions before you've even seen what it is or can do? I honestly don't understand the negative backlash of all the bashing and childish mockery in this thread, which has really been over the top, IMO. The worst crime they've committed is to announce an upcoming product before it's shipping. No other scope manufacturer has ever done that?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2013, 05:18:30 am
content: Thanks very much for your netral and sincere opinions to us. i do not know why they posted negative info here. but i belive the true product can say anything. let us wait to see it.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2013, 05:24:23 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 25, 2013, 04:35:10 pm, we spent too much time on this reserach, especially the user's habbit and feelings.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2013, 09:20:51 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on November 01, 2013, 05:18:30 amSo how long do we have to wait ? When will it be available? When will we see a video of it working?

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2013, 11:34:10 am
content: Hi there...being based in Europe errhh. Belgium to be exact I tried already some half year ago contacting this company to inquiry about their handheld oscilloscopes. (MS3xx, MS5xx) series as the published specs seemed almost too good to be true. Truth is this company has a rather low response time. I had learned that some MS3xx and MS5xx models had passed CE testing so could technically be imported into the EU. However even expressing the will to buy (for a try) returns nearly nothing. Ah ok, recently I got a mail from them (after having asked many times) with a link to a distributor within Ukrainia. Well, that helps me a lot in Europe..Thanks folks....Now imagine buying a high spec portable DSO and e.g. needing support. To name: calibration, new battery, charger, repair or whatever...More grey hairs to grow...This company "seems" to be having very nice handheld DSO's and even the new tablet platform looks fine to me. But what is it all good for if one cannot even acquire the other series. I have very low hopes and their marketing department might do their job. But sales definitely not. It is easy to promise all. I just thing their network/sales channels simply don't work ex. China to name.I was hoping for a real good alternative to the Fluke, Chauvin Arnoux (Metrix), Tek's and Agilents alike but I guess this is not going to happen so soon. Guess they don't need my money....Well I'll try to grow some hair and I am confident by the time their products are available either U.S. or EU some might take me for a lady (at least from looking from behind.)So more waiting.....

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 08:53:41 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 01, 2013, 09:20:51 amDude! Don't you know how hard it is pointing a camera at a working oscilloscope?!Maybe we should ask questions in Engrish?How you to make video to see for us goodly, yes?

author: mianchen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 09:37:16 am
content: QuoteThat's not engrish, correct Chinese version should be:We have to wait how long so can see the oscilloscope's video?sent from Mars

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 09:41:38 am
content: Micsig seem to be very selective about which questions they are answering.Not the sort of attitude you want from a test equipment manufacturer.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 10:03:41 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 02, 2013, 09:41:38 amMust be running each one by a committee.

author: sipo75
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 02:19:35 pm
content: Quote from: mianchen on November 02, 2013, 09:37:16 amMaybe this is not a place for ethnical discrimination?

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 02:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 02, 2013, 09:41:38 amQuote from: EEVblog on October 26, 2013, 06:57:06 amObviously.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 07:30:04 pm
content: I wanna see pricing

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 03:49:38 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 24, 2013, 02:20:12 pmMy experience is 'most' trackpads suck... however, the one on my old Toshiba Satellite that is so old it came with XP is just fine and I've never wanted to use an external mouse instead. This newer Toshiba (it came with Vista, but now runs Win7) that I'm using now sucks and I have an external mouse connected.As for touch screens, I hate them. It's bad enough having someone come in your office and put greasy paw marks on your display... being forced to do it yourself goes too far.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:05:15 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on October 31, 2013, 10:15:55 amThank-you for your answers. Most of us understand the difficult position of having to field questions from engineers from a position of sales.Could you let us know when/where this new product line will be exhibited? Personally, I would like a chance to play with your product in person; I think other also feel this way.Cheers

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 02:39:14 am
content: Quote from: orin on November 04, 2013, 03:49:38 amEver use one of the "glass" trackpads on newer (post-Unibody) MacBook Air/Pros? It's like running your fingers over silk with just a sprinkle of the right texture. Nice and big, plus they're capacitive based (not resistive), too!Most higher end Android tablets and phones, plus all Apple devices use aluminosilicate impregnated glass or similar (i.e., Corning Gorilla Glass) with a hydro- and oleophobic coating on top. The former makes them super strong, the later causes water and skin oil/grease to wipe right off without streaking or smudging. Combine that with capacitive touch technology and modern touch screens are durable, easy to clean and precise! Nothing like the unprotected resistive touch screens of 10+ years ago.

author: shihuiui
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 01:08:53 pm
content: I'm really interesting about how they achieve 1GHz bandwith with 1Mohm input?

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 08:01:11 am
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on November 01, 2013, 11:34:10 amcan you email us again? i think we may miss your previous email.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 08:03:27 am
content: Quote from: mianchen on November 02, 2013, 09:37:16 amEat hot doufu slowly.

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 08:05:36 am
content: Quote from: madshaman on November 04, 2013, 06:05:15 amis there any good fair in Canada or US for us to particapte?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2013, 10:58:49 am
content: Will we see you at this trade fair?http://www.amper.cz/en.html

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 11:33:35 pm
content: This is going too slow, is boring. No news...

author: Micsig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 01:21:31 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on November 07, 2013, 10:58:49 amhow about this fair?honestly, we are looking for distributors, and we want to grow up with them together?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 01:34:54 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on November 22, 2013, 01:21:31 amGive us a demonstration of your scope with a VIDEO. Nobody will distribute this scope site un-seen.Until you do this, we have no way of knowing if this scope is good or just junk that we could buy in the Shenzhen market.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 02:24:10 am
content: I am now convinced that his intention is not promoting or at least introduce the product here, especially in this thread. Looking at the replies made, its morely the quest to find distributors or resellers.So unless you going to show an interest to sell their product, he will not going to hand out any clues about it, not even a photo of the "mockup".This thread should be moved to Buy/Sell/Wanted section.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 02:26:39 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on November 22, 2013, 02:24:10 amHow about the Snake Oil thread?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 02:31:33 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 22, 2013, 02:26:39 amLOL ... actually I had thought of that for few seconds in my mind, its just I remembered Dave gave sort of "faint" nodding on this thread, its just a gesture of respect for Dave, otherwise I would proposed that.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 06:50:44 am
content: even if they are looking for distributors - they are not looking very hard.I emailed them about 5 months ago - since the UAE is the master place for everything cheap made in china. We can't even BUY the high end LCD/Plasma TV's here because the usual ***** (yes bosschh) nationalities manning the purchase departments in the electronics retail chains would never DREAM of taking in anything else than the absolute lowest priced items. Ask for a high end notebook... "8 weeks delivery - if at all possible" - and then of course no spare parts for the high end models - so repairs ... "2-6 months"People in the UAE would (in general) rather buy 15badcheap things here than 1 good quality high end item - so I asked for distribution terms as I have a lot of contact in the technical schools- never heard back....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2013, 10:39:01 am
content: Quote from: Micsig on November 22, 2013, 01:21:31 amJust send one to Dave for a review and sell them directly through Ebay.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2013, 11:01:43 pm
content: http://www.micsig.com/en/product_detail.asp?id=24I am looking forward a product video. Will there ever be any?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 12:23:52 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 01, 2013, 11:01:43 pmAt this point I'm thinking they have a reasonably authentic looking mock up that some have seen but don't have the bugs worked out.It's like some of these knock-off HTC or Samsung phones I see being sold with links to Youtube videos. In almost all circumstances I see that the person deliberately makes slow swiping gestures, probably to not point out that the device cannot react as quickly as the real thing.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 10:30:35 am
content: at least their handhelds are availablehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/310815198583

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 05:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on December 17, 2013, 10:30:35 amIt actually looks pretty good...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 06:31:30 pm
content: After almost two month, has anyone seen a real, working version of thebricktablet?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 07:48:27 pm
content: Micsig, please, make a promotional Youtube channel like this made by Rigol.https://www.youtube.com/user/RigolTech/videos

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2013, 08:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on December 17, 2013, 07:48:27 pmThat promotional YouTube video channel, along with the demo videos posted there, wasnotmade by Rigol. It was made by their US Distributor, RigolTech.While that may seem like a minor distinction to you, I can assure you it is not.

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 09:45:27 am
content: Hi Folks, wow ever since first appearance of the name Micsig there has been some action here on this forum. Now at least for Europe I have gotten a little closer and contact with Micsig has been improved. I even found a distributor offering the MS200 handheld series and got pricing for the rest of the series.However I am holding a copy of their CE certification (mandatory if you want to sell anything in Europe) and lots of models I found +6 months ago actually vanished. To say they had too many model series on "offer" and this made it particularly hard to decide what to go for.Now that is all slimmed down to (current status) the MS200 handhelds (no isolated inputs), the MS300 and MS500 (all isolated inputs) series. Plus the tBook. Interesting is even on the MS300 series that it can be ordered with a serial decoding option, a 50k wfms/s upgrade, XY display upgrade and Flash storage update.Now considering (now nobody has seen it live!) the specs and if Micsig's statement on the performances being true & tested than I believe they have a very competitive product at hand. Of course they have a lot of work ahead. Usually not a problem buying something but if one is spending a lot of money on an instrument then the user usually wants after sales support should a unit go faulty (sending to China is not so much of an option if the user is not a company). That also goes for availability of accessories & spareparts (e.g. chargers & batterypacks to name...)So I might decide to take the plunge and get for instance the MS310IT which I find IMHO quite a useable instrument. Mind you these are all handheld DSO's. Not really fair (even on the tBook) to expect the "do it all" thing.Honestly I spot a little bit of similarity to another forum "dpreview.com" They just as here (my apologies does not adress everybody here generally) are a lot of gear heads offering their more or less qualified opinions and taking less pictures errghh...doing measurements....Go around and check some other manufacturers of high end handheld scopes and you will find some features and specs are not so very nice and pricing still up the sky. And no fiction here; I used to be a T&M Sales Manager and also hands on Applications Engineer and from all the big players I nearly had them all passing though my hands. Plus in my daily work I use DSO's from different manufacturers. They all have their positive & negative points. It all depends a bit on your work profile. To find the machine doing it all for less at lab bench resolution (if handheld) is a dream not to come true.So my advise is: Wait a little while and see what comes up and if these (at current) marketing specifications hold their ground.And no I am not the "Mr. Wise Guy" who knows it all and had them all but beside considering electronics my hobby and also my profession I judge instruments a bit different and don't check on all "bells & stuff". For me an instrument has to be usable and easy to operate with reliable results. Even some of the big players had their lemons (remember the older A****t handheld series without the provisioning of any trigger delay?If (IF) I am going to order the above mentioned I would be happy to submit a testreport from a user standpoint. Bit surely this is not going to happen within the next 2 months or so.So to all (Moderator, Forum members and MICSIG) I do wish you a *merry christmas* and a happy new year !

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 10:31:57 am
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 23, 2013, 09:45:27 amDon't be silly now!This place is nothing like DPReview.

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 03:45:07 pm
content: @Yago. My apologies then. Sounded maybe harsher than intended. However no matter what level one has or how professional one might be I sensed a certain "similarity" but not saying that being equal to dpreview. In the end it remains. Loads of presumptions, wishes and statements on a product none of the members so far had the chance to play with.The human factor of how one expresses his view/opinion has nothing to do with their professionalism. But I don't want to start a flame here on that kind of topic.Fact is I have spotted that manufacturer way before it was even mentioned here (about 1 year ago). However their webpage had changed meanwhile though product availability still remains a burning issue for some and even myself.They also ought to hire a native english speaker to get their webpage easier to read and navigate through. Also manuals to be put online. I registered with them and tried to DL one for the MS300 series and all I got was some shabby commercial marketing chineso/english pdf. That could have gone better.I also would challenge them in the future for possible bug fixes (no new product having none). So right now I am hesitating to order (they made me pretty good pricing but will have to import myself). Because even getting it for a good price but turning out to be plagued with bugs is like throwing away money and testing my patience.Nonetheless they do "appear" to be competitive. On a side note. Having read some complaining about the high prices e.g. for the MS500 or other series. These should try to buy a Fluke/Tek/Agilent/Chauvin-Arnoux-Metrix top handheld. These do not come cheap either for sure.As said one to choose what's best for his job/profile. Right now to me they have not fully developed their reputation and yet it remains to be seen how that will go in the future.Lets wait & see and I hope I'll have the guts to shell out the cash and order one when time's right. And certainly I'll try my best to test & feedback so other members potentially interested have a bit of aid making up their mind.Merry christmas to you. Best, wluwlu1234

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 04:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 23, 2013, 03:45:07 pmNo, but we can read. And we can have a look at the photos.We can, for example, read the published size and weight specifications. And those are the specifications of a brick, not a tablet. We can watch the photos, and see a brick, not a tablet. A brick with no isolated BNC connectors, etc. And we have experience with such companies, their product quality and the value of their promises.But lets do it the other way around. Who the fuck are you? You come out of the blue, dig up an old thread, write a barely readable wall of text and dare to tell us what we should and should not do. What is your interest in this? Why are you so eager to market their other handheld oscilloscopes to us? Who is paying you?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 07:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 23, 2013, 04:50:30 pmPiggybacking onto this, we have every reason to believe that you are a biased seller. Of in that case, please make it the fuck clear that you are one, like rf-loop in his Siglent SDS2304 thread, or gain our trust, like franky from iloveelectronics, before trying to push bullshit at us.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 10:59:58 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 23, 2013, 04:50:30 pmIs this really necessary? Have we no courtesy or respect for our fellow Forum members, even if they're new here?QuoteThat seems like an odd characterization, for an active thread, that was posted to less than a week ago.QuoteIn the OP's defense, he's not the first to have started posting here, only to find that the blank lines had been stripped out somewhere along the way. Other than that crunching, his post was no more a "wall of text" than any other here. It was certainly broken into multiple paragraphs.QuoteApparently, that's your job?QuoteYou've drawn far more insidious intentions from his/her post than I was able to detect. When someone tells me there are numerous problematic issues with an item, but suggests they might at some point be willing to give it a try anyway, I don't consider that to be "eager to market".Did what the OP posted really justify your response? I'd say "Merry Christmas", but I'd be worried I'd get a "Bah, humbug!" in return.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 12:44:12 am
content: Same here. I don't understand all this negativity. Someone announces a new instrument which will be available somewhere in the future (or maybe not) but doesn't expect to get paid before delivering a working product. I can't see what is wrong with that. The tablet scope looks appealing to me and I think I'll wait a bit longer before deciding to buy a new scope.

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:11:52 am
content: @ mark_O Thank you...@ Bored@Work Thank you too sir. Very revealing.@ echen1023 as well thank you sir. Piggybacking on all statements.1. I am not telling anyone what to do or what not to do.2. I find personally new designs and approaching kind of refreshing. Whether they hold true to their advertisement iscertainly another story.3. Clearly I am not selling or promoting anything.4. I only referred to the other MS2xx/3xx/5xx seriess as these are now more or less available (maybe not all parts of world)5. Bored@Work : I don't know if you should refer to "us" when you express your opinion.6. Your remark of an old threat made me smile and questions one's definition of time.7. Sure maybe I made a few mistakes (like "wall of text"). This because I am no native english speaker.8. My thoughts are purely interest driven and share my very personal opinion a bit enriched with some professional exp.Of course each to his own and might like it or not.Now to the tBook design which I don't know more about than you do.Would you expect an iPad Air design still accommodating up to 4 CH inputs? No can do. Does it appear like a brick? YES!But in the end its a T&M device and if you look carefully around you will see a lot of tablet like designs in other industries.Check on Telecom BER and Comms analyzers. You'll find a lot of handheld devices there also with touchscreens.Let me see what I already owned personally to see whether my thoughts make sense.- TEK THS 500 series- Fluke/Philips 90 series (he 25Ms machines)- Fluke 190 series- Agilent alike u1600 series (they are similar designs to Voltcraft and other) and are made in Korea.- Cheapo Siglent 800 series (Had many bugs but otherwise ok for the price)- Metrix (Chauvin Arnoux) OX 7042 (That one was really good - Also touch screen - WinCE device) Loads of configurationpossibilities. I really had bought that one cheap and sold it (It still had a passive matrix color LCD vs the TFT of the newer)Yet I have not tried the Hantek handhelds (The newer "S" series having isolated inputs) From the photos I have seen so farthe plastic/ABS used does not seem to be highgrade but this is a preliminary thought as I never owned one.Also I believe the Mike stuff guy ran quite a useful review on the Owon higher handheld DSO's on Youtube.That of course in a nutshell more or less what I have had (over the years of course). I am more like a handheld person thoughhaving at hand quite a stack of T&M devices (from optical meters/sources to Agilent Arb generators and Tek deskscopes) due to my job.But whenever I go out (One of my functions is being a field service engineer) I usually carry 1 good multimeter (Fluke) one portable calibrator (Agilent/Chauvin Arnoux Multifunction Calibrator), a laser source and receiver (handheld) and sometimes a Rohde&Schwarz handheld spectrum analyzer. If duties demand also an Omnicron.Am I trying to educate someone here? Not at all! Am I trying to share some of my views here? Yes!Like my "personal" opinion? Yes? Great thank you. No? Well, I accept that of course but don't care being adressed like"Who the fuck are you?? and alike..."I call this mutual respect. I respect your opinions and views and even if I dislike one's opinion I necessarily don't have to usewords like that or attack someone.So to finalize. I always have been and will be an avid fan of high performance handheld devices. They have come long way and get more & more reachable even for the electronics hobbyist. That is a good development.Besides the tBook should be out of financial reach for the most electronic hobbyist though unfortunately. But so is for instancealso the Metrix Scopix II/III series (If I remember correctly they are labelled AMC in the U.S.) and the newer Fluke 2xx series and Agilent and Tek high end handhelds.Again : Merry xmas to all.And no, I am not selling anything to anyone. Hope that is clear. ;-)

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:47:04 am
content: Ah I forgot to rephrase- I am still considering maybe purchasing the MS3xx series and will if funds & time allow share my opinion.- Unfortunately the tBook might be out of financial reach.- I heard the tBook is in and-design stage and ought to be available around Jan/Feb 2014And a little bit of info on pricing (strictly European market) (Just indicators/estimates incl. EU VAT)MS310IT : 1600 EURMS320IT : 1700 EURMS510IT : 4000 EURMS520IT : 4400 EURMS510S : 4600 EURMS520S : 4900 EURSo to imagine the tBook will certainly not be below these indicated prices. (Maybe the 70MHz/2CH) But yet to be seen.Mind you the european market is quite different vs the U.S. market as the manufacturer will have to pass the so calledCE compliance testing for each single device offered (one sample of each product) which puts additional financial stresson their operations. Otherwise no shipping to EU ever.In the U.S. it is different but still I believe they might have to get FCC sort of approval.So even I mentioned some price estimates of a dealership within Europe (and also as I learned not yet readily available)I can assure you that youcannotpurchase them from me at all. I am not selling nor promoting.And also I share some of the concerns here especially the claimed Wfms/s figures. I wonder how they do that on a handhelddevice without sacrificing battery life. Like the MS500 series claimed 190.000 Wfms/s. That's even higher than the Rigol's newerseries and not to mention the tBook here which is even higher.... Hmhmhm...There I am also? a lot.Also pretty hard to measure if no provisioning of a trigger output.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:02:03 am
content: The testing costs are peanuts compared to total product development. But with those prices I doubt the tablet will sell a lot.

author: Retep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 01:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 24, 2013, 10:47:04 amYou overestimate what the CE mark really means.It is true that you may not sell a product within the EU without a CE mark. However for most products CE is just a self-certification; it is no more than a statement from the manufacturer that the product complies with relevant the EU regulations. The CE mark does not require the manufacturer to submit its product to an independent certification authority for compliance testing. How much "additional financial stress on their operations" CE causes is mostly up to the manufacturer. The CE mark really is a joke.(BTW. the symbol for Chinese Export looks remarkably similar to the CE mark)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 02:01:26 pm
content: Oh, the China Export symbol myth againIts just people using the wrong font...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 03:18:51 pm
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 24, 2013, 10:47:04 amI don't see you selling all that much to the hobbyist market at those prices

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 07:17:47 pm
content: Hi, no matter what pricing. I am not selling anyway.That was presumed by another member thinking I am a seller or professional promoter.But it is correct at those prices (I can only speak for the estimated prices) these are not so much in thehobbyist league. The MS2xx series are at the edge of it. One member mentioned an ebay link of a frenchseller offering that series. Though still maybe too high a price for some.But then imagine what the tBook is going to cost. I don't know but IMHO I am sure it will be way overlet's say $1500 or so for the smallest model.Oh yes, the former member is right about the CE mark. In fact it is a kind of self certification but additionalwork load is involved for any CE conformity. It also implies that (not necessarily) an examination of anotified conformity assessment body took place.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:48:13 am
content: Quote from: Mark_O on December 23, 2013, 10:59:58 pmThose "blank lines" are what makes it go from anunreadable wall of texttoclearly defined and readable paragraphs, we call this sort of thingGrammar, furthermore INo, seriously though, I appreciate English might not bewuwlwulu12341435qwerty'sfirst language, however his post is sort of rambling and to make it worse, it's not broken up into clearly defined paragraphs, which makes it kind of hard to read. On top of that, comparing this forum—which is composed of electronics professionals from every conceivable industry and walk of life—to the hellhole that is dpreview.com—where people that take pictures of their kids or pets are suddenly "professional photographers" because they spent $3000 on a camera—is frankly downright insulting. (That's only onetinystep above places likehead-fi.orgwhich have strict rules on no DBT.)So yeah, if we want to ask "Who the fuck are you?" that's not negativity, it's a valid question.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:38:09 am
content: If that guy doesn't have a hidden agenda I'll start a love affair with my preferred multimeter probe.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 26, 2013, 06:38:09 amWhich one would that be?

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:45:47 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 26, 2013, 06:38:09 amOk then the both of you shall stay united for the rest of...............@timbWell mistake admitted and trying to improve. Now hopefully easier to read.Would you mind telling me ***who the f*** you are? Guess not...If you read through my posts and mind going back to Nov on this post you'll see that I had myself some verysluggish response from Micsig. As mentioned I had been trying to contact them for long with disappointing responsetime. It seems recently things are going slightly (only) better.Yet to see Micsig to come up with the much appreciated video of their product.And to make it clear again. I am not a re-seller/dealer/promotor/Micsig or any other T&M employee but I had previouslyworked in T&M as an applications engineer and later sales manager for a U.S. based Test and Measurement refurbishcompany specialized in RF and GHz devices from Anritsu, Agilent, Tektronix, Wiltron & more.Though that was years ago.Meanwhile I specialized in FO communications and worked many years with Alcatel & Nortel in backbone networks.And currently doing FS engineering work and running a team of engineers in the electrical utility market.So my basic or let's say strong interest in portable measurement devices is driven by the fact that the less I have tohaul on my worldwide trips the better it is. Even though in my field of activity it is a real challenge as a portable DSOalone will not do.So in the end when I first saw a competitor of high performance handheld DSO's coming out of nowhere I was kindof happy. Though knowing that Fluke, Agilent and also Tektronix having a nice portfolio of instruments in that range Iwas kind of skeptical due to the claimed specifications.Still instruments like the Fluke 190 series II and even the Fluke 125 (though slow 25Ms/s) are clearly no hobbyistinstruments (given their suggested prices). However they do perform very nicely in specific areas. To mentionedharmonic analysis, BUS analysis, 3 phase system analysis and so forth.To round up they are instruments for the professionals in the field and I had used a Fluke 125 quite often on side.Only drawback was its slow sampler but the rest was very nice and handy indeed.So when Micsig appeared I immediately sensed that their portfolio is not really aimed at the hobby market at alland I believe the suggested retail prices very much support that statement. For instance some time ago I sharedsome thoughts with Rigol GE HQ (yes they have a small support center there) about getting a handheld in theirportfolio with some leaner specs of their DS2000 (or the recently introduced) DS1000Z series.Well that is currently not in their planning. But you never know a surprise is always possible.Yet I do not know whether I'll go for Micsig cheaper range of handhelds to give it a try. I am sure the tBook thoughmight be out of reach because I would only choose the 4 channel version for the size of it.I am also eagerly waiting for Micsig to move further and instead of issuing sort of promises to really show some unitslife in action. Maybe take some live video off of the upcoming "Electronics for you 2014" Feb in New Delhi/India.It cannot be so hard to record some videos before the grand opening of the event. Surely they give the units a runbefore the public storms into the hall on opening day.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:20:49 am
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 26, 2013, 06:45:47 pmI'm a freelance EE consultant and writer. I'm currently writing a book on Robotics and the Raspberry Pi for McGraw-Hill and a series of articles for EDN's Test & Measurement Design Center. In a past life I was in IT (ran a couple of ISP/hosting providers and eventually got into setting up large scale networks) so I feel you in regards of working with FO and stuff.I didn't want to start a pissing contest, you've got to keep in mind when someone comes in here with a low post count—without so much as introducing themselves—and starts posting walls of text in a semi-authoritative manner, we're going to be a little suspicious. Dave is a skeptic, which draws a lot of like minded individuals to his forums I think, so we're already a little bit suspect of things in general, you know? So all of that combined tripped some of our bullshit meters.Anyway, thanks for shedding some light on your background and giving some perspective into your interest in thesetabletsvaporware.

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:44:13 am
content: Hi timb,thanks for clarifying. That helped a lot (I guess) taking off some steam in that developing p***contest maybe.Indeed you might be not far off the truth at current regarding "Vaporware". However the smaller series (the 200's) arereadily available from a french re-selling company via ebay as posted by another forum member.Maybe Miscig should get their timing right. No use coming up with big shabang of new instruments and yet not releasedor available within the U.S. & Europe. I anticipate their intention and every manufacturer has the right to advise of upcomingnew devices. But Miscig clearly never was heard of before. That for instance is quite different for companies like Rigol as they are established already.So possibly I got myself sort of carried away sounding like I am defending them which in fact I don't at all. Call it my personalenthusiastic outburst always eager to learning about new makers of fine instruments.However during some readthrough here & then all of a sudden I have learned a great deal about the Siglent SDS2000 serieswhich are not handheld ones but nonetheless very interesting. A subject I will follow closely as theiy are readily availablein Europe through a dealer located in The Netherlands (actually just my neighbor country).So all best for NY 2014...

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 11:45:53 pm
content: http://www.micsig.com/en/product_detail.asp?id=24Any news or video presentation?

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 05:49:51 pm
content: OT: this thread is providing a lot of insight on how not to launch a product.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 09:20:21 pm
content: http://www.micsig.com/en/shownews.asp?id=114

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2014, 09:28:33 am
content: Quote from: wluwlu1234 on December 27, 2013, 10:44:13 amI'm some amount sceptic about future markets in EU and U.S.Rising markets for electronic test and measurement units are in other area of world - Asia etc.Example what happend when chinese poples really start also hobbies with electronics (today it is around zero - but even this is lot). This kind of hobby markets have never seen before in world history if it start. There is today rising lot of (many kind of) manufacturing what are not even interest about western markets. And why they should be interest about very difficult, saturated and decaying markets. Earlier they (hobbyists and professional users there) admire these western names Tek, HP (or agilent destroyed HP) and so on... but today related to price, availability and quality this is changing.Of course I hope I'm wrong.....I will wait something new from name Micsig.Split it: Mic.... andSig..... and quess rest.There is some nice things (on the paper) in these equipments and if they (dev team) do good work with useability, HW quality and really good well made FW/UI -- least I'm interested.Isolated inputs fast 4 channel hadhelds. I want see it in real work in professional users normal use on the field in heavy use and in difficult environment.Interested, I will continue to wait.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 01:54:24 pm
content: QuoteDo you think they are connected with Siglent??BTW this is how they should introduce a new product...http://info.tek.com/www_mdo3000oscilloscope-oneisthenewsix.html

author: CosPhi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2014, 10:20:41 pm
content: I just found two new videos on youtube with working units...Micsig HHO decoding demo >http://youtu.be/2Hpyhm9JELcMicsig HHO and tBook oscilloscope HD decoding >http://youtu.be/F91WEVmDynEWhile the non glare display on the normal Handheld scope looks very nice (I'm impressed), the glare display on the tBook ... as always black is not the best background color on such displays ...It seems they work nice so far ...

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2014, 10:33:26 pm
content: The tbook looks like no more than a software demo. There's no signal shown. No probes plugged in.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2014, 10:41:41 pm
content: Quote from: CosPhi on June 01, 2014, 10:20:41 pmThat UI looks pretty awful - pretty much as expected.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2014, 11:40:32 pm
content: I am not sure if that tablet-only scope actually brings any benefits. By the way, there have been oscilloscopes with touch screens since 1990.And I prefer a display that does not look like a mirror. It should be matt.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2014, 11:46:37 pm
content: They have their own youtube channel.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 01:10:17 am
content: Quote from: madshaman on May 01, 2014, 05:49:51 pm

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2014, 12:04:23 am
content: http://www.dx.com/p/micsig-to202-10-1-full-touch-screen-200mhz-2-ch-tablet-digital-oscilloscope-blue-326711#.U7H5UZR_vfWhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to202-tablet-digital-oscilloscope/?topicseen

author: Ebivetar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2014, 12:25:00 pm
content: I am really interested.Any new updates regarding review and videos?

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2014, 03:45:16 pm
content: 9 months ago, Micsig wrote:Quote from: Micsig on October 24, 2013, 05:40:24 amThat must be some spectacular video.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2015, 08:01:54 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new!-touch-tablet-oscilloscope/

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 09:44:27 am
content: Hi there....I know this topic is a bit outdated & long so to speak. However...Back then I was kind of accused of running a "secret agenda" asf...Well in fact I hope I had explained my real intensions. Pure interest in new "handheld" devices.I don't know what's going on with Micsig. I found new videos on youtube and more data (Mind you I am not really interested in their tablet style DSO but more inthe 200/300/500 handhelds - the latter 2 having isolated inputs - The most important for me).I had been adressed couple of times by Micsig and they even wanted to give me a demo initially but when I replied back with "Sure would appreciate it" the radio-channel went a bit silent. But they kept on ... well... bombarding me with short emails about how nice the units are, what special offers they have, price reductionsand so on. I guess they even wanted me to win as a Belgium distribution partner though I have no business at all.On a sidenote it was interesting how they tried to get more info on the competition locally here and in EU. Nedless to say I would not enlighten them. I think they cando their own marketing & research.Nothing really wrong in general but the way it is executed is getting on my nerfs a bit. I also anticipate that they should send a unit for review (And I mean any unitof their portable device series to Dave so he can have a go with it). But I think they fear that. It is no longer vapourware for sure but a taste of doubtness remains.It is a bit sad because personally I would be interested in their MS300 & MS500 series (still) but surely would take most precaution before spending that kind of money.And yes...it must be handheld for specific reasons (Have enough desktop DSO's)In my view they fly a little blind on the ex-Asia market (not to say helpless) whereas other China based makers (e.g. Rigol, Siglent etc...) have a way better understanding& support within at least the EU. Not to say they perform so nice but at least Rigol has a Germany based support team.If Micsig is so convinced of their products then I believe they ought to give their units (or selection of it) to 3rd party evaluators. Dave would be my pick here for sure. Maybealso Morton or others with their own pages. But like this I am waiting & waiting and do not know whether to take the plunge.And no... I do not like their style of short sniplets of posts like...Check this & Great this with single pictures and replication what's on their webpage anyway. To me looks likea kid trying to repeat over & over (with small variations) how nice & great it is.That kind of adressing does not go well with the prices they ask for their instruments and will never win any enthusiast, semi-pro or full pro in my personal opinion.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 10:42:43 am
content: It took them a long time from announcement to actual product availability so maybe they got their software right first. If you are interested in buying one try to get one on loan first and see how well it works.edit: typo

author: wluwlu1234
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2015, 07:35:54 pm
content: Yes that would be nice. But as they already had previously approached me they all of a sudden pulled back.Wonder why though O0Oh well I'll wait a little while and see how things develop and if nothing new say in +6 months I'll consider it not worth it any longer...

author: sborkuti
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:25:17 pm
content: http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.html

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 10:41:04 pm
content: They haven't sent one to Dave, Mike, AvE, Applied Science or anyone else I trust yet. So I'm just waiting until then.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 02:25:37 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on September 23, 2015, 10:41:04 pmThey're still working on the firmware, English language manuals, etc. etc. I would personally like to see it in the hands of Shahriar (TSP), I think he makes great balanced reviews.

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 07:55:38 am
content: Quote from: Yago on October 24, 2013, 07:14:24 pmHi Yago,thanks for your comment,regarding your questions,my opinion is:As said , they are difficult to use if your hands are larger .I am really worried about your so "big" hand, is it ok to use your cell phone, fork or knief?Often your hand obscures your view when placed over the target area .Do you think your hand obscures your view of the target area when your using your phone to SMS, play games, do stock valuation or other things?If you have other questions regarding using Micsig oscilloscopes,you could contact me for more information.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 09:05:28 am
content: Quote from: Micsig_support on February 02, 2016, 07:55:38 amHey, what a great first post from the new official (?) MicSig account! Thoughtful, considerate, with the technical detail this forum has been asking for all the time...Come on, Micsig. You have received many constructive comments on this forum in response to the small bits of trivial information posted via the earlier "Micsig" account. I doubt that this new approach will work any better to gain any traction in this forum.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 10:42:34 am
content: IMHO it is best to leave remarks about generic use issues which come with touch-screens unanswered. If someone doesn't like touch screens or is in an environment where a touch screen is not the best solution he/she will never be interested.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 12:35:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 02, 2016, 10:42:34 amAgreed. And even more so when that remark dates from October 2013.And if one nevertheless can't resist commenting, and happens to be writing as an official company representative, it might be advisable not to ridicule the user (and potential customer?) who made that remark...

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 03:06:16 am
content: Hey, what a great first post from the new official (?) MicSig account! Thoughtful, considerate, with the technical detail this forum has been asking for all the time...Come on, Micsig. You have received many constructive comments on this forum in response to the small bits of trivial information posted via the earlier "Micsig" account. I doubt that this new approach will work any better to gain any traction in this forum.Really thank you. Micsig is a new brand, and we dedicate to provide better oscilloscope to engineers, and we sincerely welcome all friends' suggestions.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2016, 01:27:34 am
content: I saw this scope on a trade fair. It was distributed by GHV Trading.http://www.ghvtrading.cz/merici-pristroje/osciloskopy/scopemetry/to102.htmlIt was probably theTO102A.The screen is too glossy. It is hard to photograph. I was unable to get a good view of FFT, maybe I did something wrong. The touch panel is not very sensitive.There was no video trigger. There are only three trigger types. There are no tools for that 90Mpoints record management.I was not impressed.There might be a new firmware available, that will make things better.This scope is not easy to handle. I am a late 1980's guy so I prefer buttons. Yes, I have a touch smartphone and it is OK, but for scopes I prefer a traditional design.The TO102A seems to have a powerful hardware, though. The DPO feature looks well implemented.For the price I would consider buying another scope.http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.html

author: Micsig_support
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2016, 09:30:45 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on March 18, 2016, 01:27:34 amHello, we update the new firmware, it has 7 triggers right now. is it possible to send email to sales@micsig.com, then we will reply you..the touch screen should be sensitive and easy to use, but we have to admit that we do not have the good video to show. and we are trying to improve.Tablet oscilloscope design are very new and intuitive, we need to do everything step by step. and we are trying to provide better scope to you..thanks.