CSA7404B & TDS7404B  repair - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2022, 09:50:11 am
content: Hi i start i new topic about a the upgraded 7000series tektronix scopes. the B series.i got in a couple for repair with complicated problems.problems i want to share but also talk about so everybody can take there benifits from in the future.at this moment i got on my bench:a CSA7404B with trigger problems all channels display a zero.so i suspect the MAX9601 or something arround this chip.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-csa7404-repair-project/msg4331338/#msg4331338..to be continueda TDS7404B which doesnt boot up fully.it give me a power faillure on the ACQ processor.looking for power rails arround the proc.a TDS7404B which has 311 errors in Diagnostics and Misc 512.the error 311 indicaties memory chips U554 and U754

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2022, 09:54:02 am
content: a question for the TDS7404B with the ACQ processor power failure.does anybody by all means maybe know the exact location of the cpu on the acq board (B version).i mean a lot of heatsinks are covering the real identity of the chips.can anybody point me to its location?on the picture seen below....from my first view i have two visible chips to discover there identity. the 4 red circles are channel related, yellow is triggering related and in the Middle of the 4 red circles i guess a dataplexer. so on the left i see- MM9618-UCB- Xilinx Spartan XC2S50

author: KrudyZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2022, 06:06:12 pm
content: I have a spare that I keep for parts for the non-B version of the ACQ board.There clearly are some differences, but I got the heat sinks off two of the parts, so you can have a look.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2022, 09:51:38 pm
content: @KrudyZ thanks for your reply but i am looking for the acq Processor location on the B version board. not the old board.so anybody?

author: KrudyZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 02:50:43 am
content: Are you sure there is one?I would not expect it to be covered by a heat sink.It could be off-board or a soft core processor in an FPGA...

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 09:08:23 pm
content: Thanks for your reply @KrudyZ.i don t know really where to find maybe i can better post the error tomorrow. maybe that will point more to the problem thanks real good one.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 11:25:36 pm
content: this is the most complete service manual i've found, "the one with the most pages count"haven't found another who beat this one loll unless i try my luck on Fleabay ??alas no schematicshttps://ia801302.us.archive.org/26/items/tektronix_TDS7000B/TDS7000B.pdf348 pagescould give you some insights .... i have made some cals backups and a few things from a 7254B, see the other thread about this series hereEDITI retract myself this one as 396 pageshttps://www.opweb.de/espanol/empresa/Tektronix/TDS7254

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 04:18:31 pm
content: Hi ok there we go today i swapped the PowerPc board out because after the post from yesterday i thought for a moment the problem is maybe not related to the ACQ board....but it is for sure. and the message i get is power failure on ACQ Processor.see bottom of log-------------------------------------------------------------------------updateAcqProcFirmware("dbfs:c:/vxBoot/acqProc.hex")0x16987e0 (tShell): Program enable command didn't echo back properly.logTask: 1 log messages lost.value = 0 = 0x0cd "pc:"value = 0 = 0x0raxInitializeDevicesdone0x16987e0 (tShell): (Re)starting Acq Processor0x16987e0 (tShell): Acq processor powerup failure!---------------------------------------------------------------------Code:romPost: L2 cache üromPost: I am alive .uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuromPost: L2 cache turned on.romPost: MPC107 Walking-one passed.romPost: MPC107 configuration passed.romPost: Intel21555 PCITOPCI bridge configuration passed.romPost: PERFORMING ROM CHECKSUM TEST...romPost: ROM checksum passed.romPost: PERFORMING DRAM CELL TEST...romPost: Enabling data cache...romPost: Data cache enabled.romPost: Enabling instruction cache...romPost: Instruction cache enabled.romPost: DRAM Cell test passed.romPost: PERFORMING DRAM MARCH TEST WITH CACHE OFF...romPost: Disabling data Cache...romPost: Data cache disabled.romPost: Disabling instruction cache...romPost: Instruction cache disabled.romPost: Writing address to each *address...romPost: Reading address from each *address...romPost: DRAM march test passed...romPost: PERFORMING DRAM MARCH TEST WITH CACHE ON...romPost: Enabling data cache...romPost: Data cache enabled.romPost: Enabling instruction cache...romPost: Instruction cache enabled.romPost: Writing address to each *address...romPost: Reading address from each *address...romPost: DRAM march test passed...romPost: PERFORMING DRAM WALKING-ONE TEST...romPost: DRAM Walking-one test passed.romPost: PERFORMING NV-MEMORY WALKING-ONE TEST...romPost: NV-MEMORY Walking-one test passed.romPost: Disabling data Cache...romPost: Data cache disabled.romPost: Disabling instruction cache...romPost: Instruction cache disabled.romPost: Enabling instruction cache...romPost: Instruction cache enabled.romPost: POWER-UP DIAGNOSTIC COMPLETE.HelVxWorks System BootCopyright 1984-1996 Wind River Systems, Inc.CPU: Tektronix HPP - IBM 750CXeVersion: 5.3.1BSP version: 2.0.1.10Creation date: Sep 30 2003, 07:53:07Press any key to stop auto-boot...0auto-booting...boot device : smprocessor number : 0file name : c:/vxboot/vxWorks.stinet on backplane (b): 192.168.0.1:ffffff00host inet (h) : 192.168.0.2gateway inet (g) : 192.168.0.1flags (f) : 0x1008target name (tn) : tds7000startup script (s) : c:/vxboot/topscript.hwInitializing backplane net with anchor at 0x1e80000... done.Backplane anchor at 0x1e80000... Attaching network interface sm0... donedone.Attaching networkPC1 dio device driver installedinterface lo0... done.Attaching DIO client... done.Loading c:/vxboot/vxWorks.st...1773468Starting at 0x200000...Host Name: bootHostUser: targetInitializing backplane net with anchor at 0x16e0000... done.Backplane anchor at 0x16e0000... Attaching network interface sm0... donedone.PC1 dio device driver installedAttaching network interface lo0... done.Adding 6034 symbols for standalone.]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]] ]]]]]]]]]] ]] ]]]] (R)] ]]]]]]]]] ]]]]]] ]]]]]]]] ]] ]]]]]] ]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]] ]]]]]] ] ]] ]]]]]]] ]]]]] ] ]]] ] ]]]] ]]] ]]]]]]]]] ]]]] ]] ]]]] ]] ]]]]]]]]] ]]] ]] ] ]]] ]] ]]]]] ]]]]]] ]] ]]]]]]] ]]]] ]] ]]]]]]]]] ] ]]]] ]]]]] ]]]]]]]] ]]]] ]] ]]]] ]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]] ]]]]]] ] ]]]]] ]]]] ]] ]]]] ]]]]]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]] ] ]]]]]] ] ]]] ]]]] ]] ]]]] ]]]] ]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]] ]]]]] ]]] ]]]]]]] ] ]]]]]]] ]]]] ]]]] ]]]] ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] Development System]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] VxWorks version 5.3.1]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] KERNEL: WIND version 2.5]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] Copyright Wind River Systems, Inc., 1984-1997CPU: Tektronix HPP - IBM 750CXe. Processor #0.Memory Size: 0x2000000. BSP version 2.0.1.10.WDB: Ready.doneKERNEL: THERMAL CONTROL INITIATEDExecuting startup script c:/vxboot/topscript.hw ...dbFsIoctl: invalid code 3################### topScript starts ###############################cd "dbfs:c:/vxBoot"value = 0 = 0x0pDbDev = ramDevCreate(0, 512, 1152, 1152, 0)new symbol "pDbDev" added to symbol table.pDbDev = 0x1692d40: value = 23670112 = 0x1692d60 = pDbDev + 0x20pDBfs = dosFsMkfs("/db", pDbDev)new symbol "pDBfs" added to symbol table.pDBfs = 0x1691720: value = 23669856 = 0x1692c60ld < TekScope.ovalue = 23657440 = 0x168fbe0ld < TekScopeSM.ovalue = 23660544 = 0x1690800copy ("TekScope.DBF", "/db/TekScope.DBF")value = 0 = 0x0loggerInitSerial No: B010125value = 21822832 = 0x14cfd70overrideFPdefaults()value = 0 = 0x0measurePPCtimebasevalue = 0 = 0x0registerMemPartitionSizes ( 0x00000000 )value = 0 = 0x0semInitForQueueCheckLogMsgvalue = 23661184 = 0x1690a80initSysWaiter()value = 0 = 0x0raxInitvalue = 0 = 0x0paiInitdonevalue = 16129500 = 0xf61ddc = PaiBaseRegisterTable + 0x804configureACLSUCCESSvalue = 0 = 0x0verifyAcqBoardIDvalue = 0 = 0x0tcsLoadTableToNVRAM "pc:c:/vxBoot/setup.tcs"value = 0 = 0x0updateAcqProcFirmware("dbfs:c:/vxBoot/acqProc.hex")0x16987e0 (tShell): Program enable command didn't echo back properly.logTask: 1 log messages lost.value = 0 = 0x0cd "pc:"value = 0 = 0x0raxInitializeDevicesdone0x16987e0 (tShell): (Re)starting Acq Processor0x16987e0 (tShell): Acq processor powerup failure!

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 06:20:53 pm
content: and this is what i found reading the theory of operation.each channel has its own processor...so back to post to and look for a general error. like no communication or what ever

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 08:57:39 am
content: did somebody here ever traced out the power rails on these ACQ boards?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 12:04:29 pm
content: you will have to find the lines ... like poking on the five pins regulators, trying to find supply lines near some decoupling capacitors near the ic's ....without schematics, it wont be an easy tasksome people probed on the pcb's interconnect (between the pcb's) ... some people reported that removing them and reseating them helped (oxidation) ...cant recall if you have voltages tests points written on the pcb

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 08:43:27 pm
content: Here a bit of info on this board

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 08:49:02 pm
content: Acq processor failures usually involve power up the board. Check all the pins on the interconnect boards on the side between the power supply and the acq board.

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 09:45:19 pm
content: I believe the acq processor is an ATMEL chip toward the front of the board. I have seen one maybe two be bad

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 10:50:03 am
content: Hello @MikeHank i did what you suggested and guess what i am missing power rails from J2. and from what i discovered the +15 and -15 is coming from J2 even as +5 and -5 volt.This is a start and doesn t mean my acq board is ok, but let us hope so.of course thanks for your reply , thats a good one i already saw the amtel chip.BTW any ideas on the load to Fire up this PSU separate.startup : PS_ON# ----> GND . [ J1. pin-c1 <> pin-c4 ]

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 12:20:29 am
content: I've never had any luck troubleshooting these power supplied. I usually just bough a power up but defective unit on ebay and swapped out the power supply.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 07:50:07 pm
content: Ah ok... at this moment i have 2 broken PSUs and a good one as my reference. i swapped out about 7x 68uF/35v already . and now they start but still miss sec. outputs. lots of smps circuits.for the PSUs.... to be continued.meanwhile: i worked on fixing 2 out of 3 ACQ boards. with errors in the logs.and i hope to fix the last one also. 3 out of 3 would be great.but i also have a PowerPc with problems and a backlight inverter with problems.details will follow later.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 08:24:29 pm
content: ok this weekend i was fully working on a few TDS7404B i againone did not have a display and a ACQ error. the other one a broken psu and also ACQ board problems.i managed to get the display working the invertor had a blow fuse and thinking that was it. No i also have to swap out components on the powerPC.so the PSUs and the ACQ errors are my last errors in these units. for the ACQ boards i ordered some sram chips because of the errors in diagnostic run. i got errors mem 311 and misc 512. and on the other TDS7404B even more errors lots mem related. have to wait for chip to arrive come back on this one.the PSUs :on (1) psu my T7 is primairy not starting so no 5 and 15v both +and -on a (2) psu i replaced both primairy FETs and the 5 parallel 2 ohm resistors. then the psu starts and i can power it on butwhen conne tinglazuur a load on J1 on 5v 3,3v and 12v a 18ohm.resistor my primairy side burns out.any tips on one of these two PSUs.?

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 11:23:57 pm
content: No good tips on the PSU's sorry.MISC error 512 i believe is because a calibration flag is set to fail or does not match the s/n from acq board to PPC board. I used to remember how to change them but its been a bit....Maybe someone else remember that.The memory callouts are usually pretty good. I believe each demux has 4 SRAM's and the diag failure is usually one of the 4.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 03:17:39 am
content: i saw that when you change the acq board vs the power pc board you have to do some kind of a serial match between them somewhere in the manuals ... ??

author: mikehank
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2022, 07:28:06 pm
content: I believe error 512 can be removed by a factory calibration. I'm unsure if the performance verification in the service manual will help.

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2022, 05:36:16 am
content: Hi.I found this on the Repair of TDS 7000 PSU's. Maybe it is usefull.Succes

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 12:24:04 pm
content: @calibrationfixture thanks very much but i already got that one ;-)if someone has more tips on the secundairy side please drop in...

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 12:52:37 pm
content: This weekend i worked on 2 more TDS7404B version scope both with a defective ACQ board. after hours i got the first one working and the second one is waiting for test.i made a layout from all the info i have got.location of the SRAM chips both top and bottomside and that in combination with the DEMUX chips en i didn t see all error version but as stated in the library in Demux"X" in blue are predicions.if there is more info i can add please send me and i will make a layout to help everyone here to easily find the problems;-)

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 06:01:45 am
content: Hi.Same Forum another Topic/Thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tek-csa7404-repair-project/Contribution of Xyphro. Page 20, 21 etc. Partly Electric Diagram of TDS 7x04 PSU.Succes

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2022, 09:04:09 am
content: Hi thanks this is mostly about the primairy part i am looking for the secundairy part, so the part behind the Tx transformers. (T1, T7, T10).even partly diagrams or doodles are very welcome.but i opened up a new topic specially for the PS2251 PSU. (because it is complex and a lot of info can be told on these units)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tektronix-7000-power-supply-martek-ps2251/msg4435861/#msg4435861and i come back on the rest of the scope repair here.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 05:53:18 pm
content: i finish both TDS7404B scopes with ACQ board problems and one had a PPC board failure, all fixed and Diagnostic and SPC pass ....but in the end i finished with i guess still a simple problem getting the option JT3 installed the scope says "App 53 Avail: not installed" in the options list i double checked if JT3 was in the key and it was.i have 3 versions of option software like 2.1.0 and 3.0.2 and 3.0.3 but they all say not available under options...after installation and scope reboot...install the option key when jitter analyses advanced is started in tekscope environment in a small popup.is there a place like ini file or other cfg where my option key must be configured. to get things working?or do i do the procedure wrong?greetz charly

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2022, 08:39:43 pm
content: Hi,I suggest a Scope Application FW Upgrade. See attached Document. My Scope has for example Version 4.0.5 and App 61 Avail: not installed as message. App 61 is CAN and LIN Timing and Protocol Decode Software (TDSVNM). To enable this I have to Upgrade to Version 5.1.3. In my case I used Option Masks 10 44 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF (14 x F).Succes

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2022, 08:50:22 pm
content: Hi again,Second. Congratulations with your succesfull repairs. What I was hoping for that you made an overview of Subsystem and Area related Error Codes and which repairs fix them.Greetings

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 06:43:20 pm
content: Hi yes for sure i will do that later. to share the info here.and to get back to the FW upgrade the scope has both the latest version and orginal winXP installed.

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 09:50:35 pm
content: Hi,As far as I know, JT3 is Jitter Analysis Essentials (TDSJIT3v2 Essentials) and JA3 is Jitter Analysis Advanced (TDSJIT3v2 Advanced). You enable these in the App Menu (named Jitter Analysis - Essentials and Jitter Analysis - Advanced). In the list of current options I also have App 52, 53 Avail: but not installed.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 03:18:46 pm
content: Hi i understand i tried 3 version of the options files named in an earlier post. yesterday i descided to change the serial of the scope to just 5M , ST, SM and that worked and with that i finish that project.i had some serious ACQ errors memory relatedCode:Edge not found. proxPtr=0x385a734, distPtr=0x385a734adjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = -63Edge not found. proxPtr=0x385a7a4, distPtr=0x385a7a4verifyPhaseCal:HFSTEP Statistics:7 has Max High Value 0f 88.313 has Min High Value 0f 77.007 has Max Low Value 0f -72.742 has Min Low Value 0f -88.231 has Max Edge Points 0f 35 has Min Edge Points 0f 0DEMUXES NEEDING ALIGNMENT:5 xer(-172) High/Low(80.73/-81.57) Edge(0pnts)-------------------------------------------------------------Test "311" - Acquisition-->Memory-->MemData startedacqDataConfCheck: demuxATest "312" - Acquisition-->Memory-->MemAddr startedacqAddrConfCheck: demuxGTest "313" - Acquisition-->Memory-->DataFormat starteddigDataFormatDiag: BYTE mode, demuxAin the logs you will find the U# chip. to by precise look at the Test "31x" they produce other errors, but here you have to start swapping.and all these lines like: chips are located on both sides of the board in total 64. in earlier posts i made an excel where the are corrolated to the channel numbers.addr(+0x00005e) = 0x2367be act/exp = 0xc4/0xcaddr(+0x00009e) = 0x2367fe act/exp = 0x70/0x7addr(+0x00017e) = 0x2368de act/exp = 0x35/0x3....andon....all can be related to written above Test "31x"-----------------------------------------------------------------------and errors like these can be correlated to the SPC run even as demux errorsTest "351" - Acquisition-->HFStep-->PhaseCal startedadjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = 32adjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = 32adjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = 31adjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = 32adjustPhase: Notice: account for BUMP_WRAP, now x = 32i had to restore about 10 chips in the lanes. and broken components on the PowerPC board, they were all related to the lines in the connector corner where the display is connected. the LCD didn t work. after fixing that the LCD came up and worked.

author: calibrationfixture
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 08:14:26 am
content: Hi,An Option Module and Firmware Version Update for TDS/DPO/DSA/MSO Instruments with later Documents.Enjoy,Calibrationfixture