A New type of Electronics Engineering Degree course. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pm
content: Hi,I have recently been approached by a Major Electronics Engineering Professor in a UK university. He is thinking of commencing a new Electronics Engineering degree course in UK. It is designed to cater for the reality that the UK Electronics Engineering sector is dominated by companies who import Electronics from China.The course is designed to assist these companies in their efforts.Sorry I speak of UK here, but this applies to any country who depends mainly on Chinese imports.The main theme of the course is in absolute minimisation of actual involvement in actual Electronics Engineering. The company must do just enough Electronics Engineering in order to assure the profit making of the Electronics importation business.As such, the aim of the course is to train managers within such industry as follows..1….How to Create a “token” electronics engineering company……doing as little as possible electronics engineering….just enough to make your customers think that you know enough about electronics to be able to handle the importation of their electronics product.2….How to disguise the fact that your customer’s electronics product will be imported from China.For example. You create a “token” electronics manufacturing operation in UK….and try and fool certain of your customers into believeing that all their product will be manufactured and designed there, in UK.2A…How to invent a separate company, at companies house, and do all the importation through this company.Do it from the “backroom”, so that nobody knows you are doing it. Use your token electronics company to help bring you customers for this separate company. Be sure to tell people that you “don’t do imports”…when in fact, you do …but you just hide this operation from view.2B...Obviously its something of a pain having to pay for this "token" electronics business aspect, when it likely doesn't make money. However, since the overall company is making a profit (just hide the fact that the profit is actually from direct imports), you can look like a "real" Electronics company, and call in things like Government grants (eg Government grant funded projects etc) to help pay for the token electronics business.3….How to attract (and retain) good electronics engineers into your company, when you have pretty well no real desire whatsoever to do any electronics engineering.You need to have electronics engineers in your company, in order to fool your customers that you know what you are doing in electronics.But how do you attract electronics engineers and retain them, when you don’t want to do electronics engineering..?...here’s how…a)….Never let an electronics engineer get to the end of a project (since they may then leave)…always have them working on multiple unfinshed projects, so that at any time, they can be accused of scuppering a project if they leave. Be sure to make it clear to the electronics engineer that they will be given a bad reference if they leave, since they are “leaving the company when in the middle of a project”.b) Get the electronics engineer working on a project, then constantly “ throw spanners in the works” so that the engineer cannot finish the project, or is severely delayed in doing so. Then if the electronics engineer trys to leave, be sure to accuse them of “leaving the company when in the middle of a project”.Ways of delaying a project are things like…(i)….constantly changing the spec to that the Electronics Engineer has to keep starting over. (their work is likely to be only "token" work anyway, not really important, but dont let them know this)(ii)….ensure that there are delays in getting eg PCBs assembled/manufactured.(iii)….Keep inventing additional jobs that you throw at the engineer in order to delay them in doing the main project that they are working on.(iv)…Make them rush out a PCB….make them do it so fast that they make layout mistakes…then insist that they “white wire” modify the PCB to correct it….knowing full well that due to noise reasons this will be a very long job for them, and in fact, it would really be cheaper and quicker to simply re-order the PCB.(v) With a more junior EE, you can get them to waste time by giving them "carrot on a stick" jobs.....eg, they often dont understand that the high frequency noise seen on scopes is often common mode noise ("pickup").....so get them to try and filter it out with diff mode caps etc in the circuit...and watch them go blue in the face as they try in vain to reduce the noise.(vi)...Another good one for a junior EE is to give them a computer power supply, and tell them to try and get it working...dont tell them that they have a "5V enable" line in the connector, and that the PSU will never work until they put the 5V into it...watch them spend ages going blue in the face as they try in vain to fix.....this sort of thing is great , as it gets them to waste their time, but doesnt give them any useful experience that they can put on their CV/resume to go and work somewhere else....so you can retain them for longer.___-----___-----___-----___Anyway, such a great course is definitely needed, can you think of any further subjects for the Syllabus?Ayk, there is no way to survive in UK trying to do "UK design and built"...you will just be put out of business by someone bringing in the same products from China.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 09:58:42 pm
content: Consult a therapist to get that chip off your shoulder. Or escape from your mum's basement and meet people at the pub.It's getting tiresome.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 10:02:36 pm
content: While your other threads looked at least remotely plausible (if obsessive), this one absolutely doesn't. I can't believe one bit of it. If you have actual proof it is true, please give us evidence. Give us the name of the university, professor and other details.Even if we just completely forgot about your "chinese obsession", the kind of "course" you're describing would be a business course at best, not electronics.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 10:26:06 pm
content: Hahaha. Ha. Hahaha. Haha. Ha. This is a joke, right? This professor is imaginary, right?

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 11:19:24 pm
content: So are u saying this story sums up the state of electronics in the UK ? And that real EE's don't get to do much at companies, from your experience anyways ?I would love to visit some of the factories making hobby level parts, and see what they really use, and the costs/etc. Then see how many middle-men it takes to get all the way to here where no one makes components.I would be terrible as a 9-5 EE, even if I could afford and get a degree.I'd be much better as an EE in a post-apocalyptic world, trying to get analog and power circuits working.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 11:25:27 pm
content: Maybe you suggest a more electronics engineering focussed course to this professor. One that is centred around teaching local British students who intend to leave the UK as soon as they can, to work in the global electronics industry. The key difference between this and most electronics courses would be helping them through that awkward transition from student to being experienced enough to be interesting to foreign employers. Some universities have managed this. Electronics in Hong Kong has all but died, but HKUST (Hong Kong University of Science and Technology) has a first class electronics dept preparing Asian students who want to end up working in the US. The key thing is they have developed the connections, internships, and other things necessary for their graduates to be considered a desirable pool of applicants when they graduate.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 11:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pm(v)....Join many electronic forums and post useless topics instead of putting the time in working on your current project.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:00:23 am
content: Remember kids: this is what GPT trains on

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:02:56 am
content: Yes, I know this is a troll, but what that dude outlined would probably result in a successful company

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:13:48 am
content: Quote from: magic on December 31, 2023, 12:00:23 amWhich is part of why I find Faringdon's threads useful.

author: Shonky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:41:59 am
content: The professor doesn't exist. Prove us wrong.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 08:07:06 am
content: There is some truth in the model for some companies. A friend of mine worked at one, that with new management decided to outsource all development to, if I remember correctly, India and have the in house engineers do final checks and measurements to assure the product was working properly.The idea was to reduce cost and time, but it backfired and both development cost and time rose considerably.The idea of making your customers believe you are actually developing the products yourself by hiring engineers cuts into profit and just importing the products from China as is won't fool customers unless you personalize the products. This means additional costs, so I doubt if it would really work.Further more the source of this thread is highly questionable, and my vision is that an electronics professor would only contact him to ask him to follow his lessons to learn what electronics is actually about.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 08:26:25 am
content: haha the india R&D thingback fire like in judge dredd

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 11:29:46 am
content: You seriously expect us to believe that a "Major Electronics Engineering Professor in a UK university" would contact you for advice?! Clearly you have no concept of the attributes someone has torepeatedly demonstrate beforethey become a professor in a UK university!How would such a degree course be advertised to attract students?!There is a much simpler explanation for your post, which fits in with your previous obsession.Quoted in full below, so any changes can be found.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pm

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 11:49:42 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 31, 2023, 11:29:46 amSuch as arrogance? Ignoring the real world and opinions of industry insiders?Typical academia, not only UKBut I too think this story is made up. As pointed out before, this sort of courses are run by schools of business management, not engineering.How to attract students? Few things in the world are more attractive than easy money. Import stuff from overseas, slap "made in <country>" label, done. I would love to learn it too.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:20:47 pm
content: Quote from: magic on December 31, 2023, 11:49:42 amWhat more is there to learn then what you mentioned here depicted in green

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 12:56:03 pm
content: Universities are just businesses.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on December 31, 2023, 12:20:47 pmRead the original post. "Simply" selling rebadged goods may be good enough for consumer market (and then you have to compete in a race to the bottom with direct-from-you-know-where sellers on AliBay). The real money is in charging 1000% premium by selling to big businesses, government and military. Those customers will ask questions, and professor Faringdon teaches how tofool themresolve all their doubts

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:10:47 pm
content: And I joined this forum because I thought it was a serious place to discuss electronics.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:12:59 pm
content: then stop hanging out in this topic

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:16:06 pm
content: Quote from: magic on December 31, 2023, 01:05:24 pmI did, and it will only work for special people, the ones without scruplesLets call it people with a Trumptality. (Short for Trump mentality, and sorry for making it slightly political with that)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 01:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on December 31, 2023, 12:56:03 pmUK universities are businesses, but not just businesses.A key function of a UK professor's job is to understand future technologyandhow to persuade sponsors that they should spend their money on the subject at his university department.If anyone thinks that such a competent professor would approach someone with faringdon/treez/etc track record for advice (especially on the stated topic!), then there's a good chance I could sell them a bridge that I own.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 02:22:54 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on December 31, 2023, 12:20:47 pmOh, plenty of things, like how you need to do the final assembly step somewhere different, and how to modify your partial assemblies in such a way that you can fit them into particular categories so you can dodge taxes, etc. But that's experience, not something you learn in school, and definitely not something this person will grasp most likely.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:04:58 pm
content: In USA , UK, EU most firms just outsource:Whats the hourly rate for an EE as consultant or employee in UK or USA?vs cost/hr Asia: India? China? Vietnam?Europe/Baltics : Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania ?j

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 03:20:09 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on December 31, 2023, 03:04:58 pmThe hour rate for an engineer is almost irrelevant to costs. How productive are these people? Really measuring productivity. Not just measuring them by what they complete, but by weather that makes or losses money. Most designs fail and become a substantial net loss for the company. People who consistently produce designs that go quickly and smoothly into production, have well balanced BOMs, and actually have the right mix of qualities to appeal to buyers are like gold.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 10:22:06 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on December 31, 2023, 01:10:47 pmAs you can see by the replies here, Faringdon is infamous for posts like this. Many people have him on their ignore list. others just like to play along for the LOL's.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 11:34:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 31, 2023, 10:22:06 pmI wonder how many people wander into the forum, see lazybones/antivaxxer/zealot/nutter posts -anddon't stay around long enough to see the high quality responses. I have no idea how that could be assessed."Bad money drives out the good", or "broken window theory", and all that. Usenet was and twatter/farcebook are cautionary tales.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 11:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 31, 2023, 11:34:41 pmBut, if a rule or rules are introduced, that drive out people like that. It might also tend to change the characteristics/feelings/atmosphere of the forum as well.E.g. Make it more like stricter forums, such as stack exchange. Which can then put off people using it, because of its formalities and risks of getting into trouble or difficulties with people on there. Because you made minor mistakes and things.At least the thread that was apparently created to ask how bad behaviour such as trolling (as I perceived the thread), and continually going on about things, while ignoring other posters. E.g. Physics theories.I.e. This one:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what-if-someone-is-wrong-on-this-forum/Has demonstrated why politics is significantly discouraged, here.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 01:36:04 am
content: Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmSo basically a company that deliberately tries to deceive customers and peddle shit quality products into the market, with little to no after-sales support.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmBy making misleading country of origin claims and breaking laws in the process.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmMore lies and unconscionable conduct.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmStarting to sound more like fraud, tax evasion and obtaining benefit by deception.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmSo not only lying to your customers, but your own employees as well. Yep, sounds like a great way to attract and keep engineers and good talent within a business.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmBasically mismanagement and pissing people off.Quote from: Faringdon on December 30, 2023, 08:24:26 pmNo it's not. It's a fucking stupid idea and no half-reputable educational institution would even consider such a course.I honestly had to read the original post twice before I realised you weren't actually joking. Your thought process is defective. No one with a shred of ethics or integrity would ever consider this a good idea. Faringdon, I hope you are never placed in any position of authority over anything or anyone. I wouldn't trust you to assemble a burger at McDonalds, let alone have any hand in running a business. What you have described is 100% whatnotto do... ever.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 07:47:45 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 01, 2024, 01:36:04 amAnd with that.... Troll mission accomplished. 3 points to Faringdon.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 07:54:38 am
content: Farringdon can't even do sarcasm.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 10:30:12 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on January 01, 2024, 07:47:45 amTroll or not, this is the shit that lunacy is made from. Absolute dribble. The scary part is, I think he believes it himself. Who's really "winning" here?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 10:40:48 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 01, 2024, 10:30:12 amI do wonder what the real story is behind this user. Will we ever know.Can't judge on some of his stuff due to lack of knowledge myself (switching power supplies), but shit like this has to be a fairy tail.It is fun though from time to time.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 11:06:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 01, 2024, 10:30:12 am... well that's 2 points to Faringdon.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 01:05:04 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 01, 2024, 10:30:12 amNot the readers. Arguably not EEVBlog Forum.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 01:56:28 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 01, 2024, 10:30:12 amAre you also scared of the sun rising every day?Must be a stressful existence...Welcome to earth, enjoy your stay

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 01:56:54 pm
content: Maybe we need a poll, for the best/favourite solutions.There seem to be a number of members, who use to be banned, including the OP. Who somehow, have been allowed back, despite apparent permanent bans.Otherwise, this forum, could deteriorate.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 02:08:12 pm
content: Give them air and they will breath, it's funny that all the people that are so distressed insist on continually posting just to point out what a pain in the backside they think someone is. This isn't a bunch of first time unsuspecting users, but people who seem to enjoy it as much as the so called source of the problem. every time someone posts it bumps the thread back up and gets it more attention, don't answer and it just drops into oblivion and everyone is happy. the OP got it off his chest, got to see that no one is interested or believes it and every one else can carry on happy. But no, and that's the administrations fault apparently.Next time I will lock the thread at the start and post a note that this is to protect other users from themselves.