crazy experiment, 53 and 52 teeth on the crank arm of my road bicycle - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 01:26:33 am
content: So, I imported a very oldBianchi 605road bicycle made in the 90s.It's not designed for low cadence of working the pedals of a bicycle, it's rather old school, but it looks very stylish, different from modern road bicycles.It needs a lot of replacements.New wheelsNew brakesNew pedalsNew saddleNew chainNew chain-ringsNew derailleursNew ErgoPowerNew high pressure inner tubes, 8 bar at leastumm, currently it has 52 and 48 teeth on the crank arm chain-rings, and 14/15/16/17/18/20/22/24 teeth on sprocket, but I have to replace all of them, so why not take out the 48 teeth, buy a new 52 and add a 53 teeth?(N/P)xC= SMC = wheel circumference, mine are 27"N = number of teeth on the chain-ringsP = number of teeth on the sprocketusing the 52 teeth to pick up speed, you can change the gear and use the 53 teeth to take advantage of this and add 11 teeth to the sprocket for a further increase in speed.Code:* * * plan * * *Slow start: 52:20 ---------------> 0Km/h to 20Km/hPickup speed: 52:14 ------------> 20Km/h to 45Km/hBooster: 53:14 -------------------> 45Km/h to 55KmFinal Booster: 53:11 --------------> 55Km/h to 60KmSM1 = (52/14)*CSM2 = (53/11)*CIs it simple? No way ... the bigger chain-rings needs a different "central movement".A larger central movement needs a larger derailleur, while the chain and the sprocket needs to be realigned to avoid that the chain runs too crooked.So, a lot of effort, is it worth it?Logically, and biochemically the answer is ...noWith high cadence is possible to travel at the same speed expressing less force, therefore with less effort, while without 48 teeth you can forget climbs, but on the plain you can go a lot faster than ever imagined with a vintage bicycle!So, it's kind of a speed-boosting hack, the kind that your legs and heart can only hold for 10-15 minutes in my case, but allowing you to reach the incredible speed of 60km/h, which is really really great on a vintage road bicycle.(except, you don't have hydraulic brakes ... neither ABS ... d'oh)The 53-11 combination significantly lowers the pedaling cadencewatt = force (Newton) x cadence of working the pedals of a bicycle (Rpm)here the problem is that high cadence allows heart and breathless to better oxygenate muscles, also pedaling very hard (53-11 is definitively "hard") results in a longer muscle contraction with each pedal stroke, and this also means greater vasoconstriction of blood vessels with a consequent reduction in blood flow to the tissues, with greater difficulty in disposing of waste generated by effort.Good for boosting speed, but only for short time, just to shock "modern bicycles owners" that you can overtake them on a vintage road bicycle at great speed and with a lower cadence!It's really crazy, I will try it soon

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 09:54:47 pm
content: Pro cyclists are generally riding at 90-100 rpm, casual cyclists tend to be a lot lower, 50-80rpm.Yes some pros stay at lower RPMs, but in general, its worth training yourself to get used to sitting at 80-100rpm IMO. Even if it ends up not working out for you, at least you will know your ideal range.52 or 53 teeth is a crazy amount, we've started to move away from those numbers. Looking at a high end $10k Trek road bike, it comes default with 48T/35T.I thought it was cool before too (used 54T), but, stopped as it seemed to be directly contributing to joint pain, and probably ended up making me slower overall (eg you have to stand up to make it up a hill).https://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadenceCode:53x11Cadence30405060708090100110120130Speed18.2124.2830.3536.4142.4848.5554.6260.6966.7672.8378.90These are the speeds for 53/11. So at 90rpm you are already going 55km/h. 100rpm 60km/h.https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/026404100365027"The results indicated that cadence only influenced local sensations (muscle pain and knee pain), which were significantly higher at slower pedalling rates."https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Power-output-watts-vs-cadence-rpm-and-heart-rate-a-b-rider-1-c-d-rider-2_fig2_295814180https://www.sportsperformancebulletin.com/endurance-training/techniques/spin-cyclists-know-pedalling-cadence/(80rpm is slightly more efficient than 100rpm if you care)

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 10:10:44 pm
content: If you are replacing things consider making it a 1x11 setup - you only need one big chainring, no derailleur. With today's modern wide-spaced cassettes and chains that are designed to span 11 cogs you really don't lose anything but weight, and of course having to maintain and adjust what isn't there.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 05:40:51 am
content: TBH, OP could as well go for a 1x8 setup, i.e. ditch the useless 52T dead weight from the configuration he suggested

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 03:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 23, 2022, 09:54:47 pmmine is 60-70 rpmQuote from: thm_w on August 23, 2022, 09:54:47 pmyeah, Campagnolo Chorus and Centaurus were 52 or 53 in 2004, Avanti and Mirage were 52 in 1992

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 03:33:18 pm
content: Quote from: magic on August 24, 2022, 05:40:51 amand to for chain-gearhub 3 speeds (e.g. by RSA) ?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 03:45:31 pm
content: Quote from: aeberbach on August 23, 2022, 10:10:44 pmThe left ergopower is dead, hacked to works as brake front.The right ergopower is a Mirage 8 speeds, it controls the rear derailleurI modified the frame, and installed a manual sx gear-stick (pic) to control the front derailleur.hybrid setup

author: wn1fju
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 10:22:45 pm
content: You wrote, "just to shock 'modern bicycles owners' that you can overtake them on a vintage road bicycle."In order to get the full effect, you have to make sure you are holding your breath (so they don't see or hear you breathing hard) and turn your head and smile when you blow past them.And there is nothing particularly strange about a 1990's vintage bicycle. I have both one of those and a modern carbon bicycle. Sure, the 1990 bike is heavier, but outfitted with high quality components and wheels, my vintage bike is pretty fast and I've certainly passed many on more modern bikes. Nobody bats an eyelash, it's quite common.But seriously, a bicycle should be used to achieve/maintain fitness and provide some enjoyment out in the fresh air. And as previous commenters suggested, riding a 52 or 53 chainring with a small rear cog, unless you are an extremely strong rider, is a good way to wreck your knees.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 10:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: wn1fju on August 24, 2022, 10:22:45 pmCould be legit, just be super careful if you actually do it, maybe inside...https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26741118/

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 11:00:16 pm
content: Quote from: wn1fju on August 24, 2022, 10:22:45 pmCampagnolo Chorus and Centaurus were 52 or 53 in 2004, Avanti and Mirage were 52 in 1992And I happen to have 90000 km on my 52 14 bycicle, used for 30.years, always 52 14-24I have a second new modern road bicycle for training and stuff, can't Bianchi/Colnago Vento Campagnolo Mirage compare with Pinarello Prince Shimano Ultegra xxx, no way, different planets; as title says this is a crazy experiment just to make funMonza Wr is even better, and different.To be honest ... I emotionally prefer the old Colnago, but Pinarello offers better performance and comfort, while Monza Wr offers outstanding performance but low comfort.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 11:05:44 pm
content: The central movement is problematic .... Four different sizes, tools, and incompatible ... Oh man.I just bought the wrong part. You understand it when it is late.It won t stop me.The hack goes deeper

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 11:07:12 pm
content: Good news, I also got 53 and 39 for free.39 will be useful for rpm training, after this experiment.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 11:16:22 pm
content: 90,000 km on one frame is impressive.Wouldn't expect carbon to last as long as that steel does.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2022, 01:28:26 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on August 24, 2022, 11:16:22 pmYup, bought that carbon bicycle because ... well because modern bicycles are that way, but I don't like carbon, it's fragile and it feels toy-ish when you compare with steel.There are several kind of steel frame, for sure mine was not top-premium but rather an alloy of steel and other materials.You see it when you see rust. Steel doesn't oxidase that way, but iron does.The central movement is all corroded, so are other parts, and it's not fixable. That bicycle is a disaster after 90000 Km. But hey? It lasted more than expected.90000 km on one frame probably lasted so long because every time I was outside and took the rain ... I went back home to clean, dry, pass special products, etc.For a while it worked, but there is nothing to account for the wear.We did a lot of stuff together, visited far places, had nice time.Now it deserves a special place in my garage, glory and peace.Hung it on the wall