Received my Agilent U1251A last night, U1253A to arrive today (hopefully) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 12:30:15 pm
content: First, I made a mistake and ordered the U1251A instead of the U1252A to go with the U1253A (OLED). I'm not concerned enough about it to take the U1251A back. I wanted the OLED version, and an LCD version.These are, believe it or not, the first new meters I've ever purchased. I did buy a "new," "in the box" Fluke 87-V, a 189-2, and an some old 70 series, but technically they were used. (The 87-5 box was old and ratty, but the meter inside looked good. The 189-ii was government surplus, but was apparently new in a plain, white box)Dave did a review on the U1253A, so there's no need to do a repeat on this series. I was impressed with the case - it has a separate compartment for leads that is on the side, not next to the meter as it is on many Fluke cases. (leads can scratch the meter LCD window.)These don't have holsters, and the holsterless meter is larger than an 87, and about the same size as a 187/189. (also without a holster)The switch seems lightly better than the Fluke, but, probably not as nice as the Gossen. I doubt I'll ever see one of those on a clearance sale.Overall, I'm very happy, mostly due to the low clearance price.EDIT - spelling, changed detail about buying in the box, as new 70 series, as I can't remember exactly how many or what models.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 02:27:44 pm
content: I think its still worth reviewing, E. I got my 1252A in the afternoon yesterday too, after I ordered it Friday pm. That was fast.Overall, price being equal, the Fluke 87V wins, IMHO, despite some extra features and the speed of this 1252a, I wouldn't get the Agilent, price being equal. But with the 1252A being $140, well, it wins as bang for buck, hands down!DC Accuracy: same. Compared to a 10.000 0 standard, they are both within 0.02%.Ergonomics: Fluke 87V is better, simpler, KISS design. 1252a is busy. Less cluttered LCD on the Fluke is easier to see with big bold letters.Continuity beeper: Fluke is louder and faster.Rotary knob: edge to Agilent, its rubberized and has a good feel, but about par.Leads: par, both are silicone. Banana inserts are very sure feeling and solid, with the Agilent a slight better being so much tighter.1252a has no rubber protector like Fluke, but the entire case has strategically located rubberized coating, giving it a solid grip.More later. I have the 9v rechargeable battery, but the 1252a can use alkaline too, so you get best of both. The charger is rather large, but it uses silicone shrouded banana jacks, very nice solid feel. Charging is fast, although set for ~4 hours, it will terminate charge dV/dt, so my batteries were full at 30 min or so.The unit is made in Taiwan, the accessories China. The box states production date is 11/2007, the calibration certificate 3/09, so its been in inventory for a while. Given the cal certificate is good for 3 years, and the cost of cal is about $100, the discount on the unit is close to the value of a cal, if you need one.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 02:29:06 pm
content: I have ordered the U1253A from Grainger for $146.25 and that is the only one still available here in the US (as of March 29, 2011). I have called the local stores and they have told me that the U1251A & U1252A are gone nationwide. Hope to get it soon as well. So if you still want one get it quick!My only concern is with the battery life like Dave pointed out, but I am wondering if I am going to use it for bench work only (low voltage) if there is a hack to add a external adapter to bypass the battery, in other words could you add a little jack for a charger. The only problem I see is that if the meter is getting charged you can't use if for anything else! So you would have to either bypass the battery or something making the meter think it is getting a perfect 9V.RutgerPS: Here is the link:Agilent 1253A

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 02:40:17 pm
content: You'll love it Rutger, its shortcomings are short, its otherwise a superior DMM. The OLED display is great for lab work, its like the LED displays I have on my PSU and bench DMM. I gave that some thought too. I ended up choosing an LCD version with a charger because I can use the nice backlight and still have decent power consumption; I thought the 8 hour battery life just a touch short, given it takes 4 hours to charge a depleted battery. My typical project time is about 4-6 hours nonstop, so the meter could work for my benchtime, but as the battery ages, it will definitely become too short.I don't know if the battery cover has a cover sensor to kill the DMM if its not on, if there is none, you can easily power the unit from an external power supply, just alligator clip to the 9V leads. The charger circuit disables the whole DMM during charging.Quote from: Rutger on March 29, 2011, 02:29:06 pm

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 03:29:16 pm
content: Thanks for the encouragement saturation! I was also looking at the Fluke 87V but hey for $ 140 it is hard to passover.Could a hack be made to add a small jack with a 3-way switch (I haven't looked if they exists) that would enable to normal operation of the unit and at the same time have drip charge the battery? I don't know if there is a single 'charger' chip out there that would do this. Then you get one of those many discarded chargers and use it to power the meter.Rutger

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 08:10:26 pm
content: All you need to do is put the battery in parallel with the charger and the DMM power input, and it will charge and power the DMM. However, the real issue is safety; a DMM is made to be fully isolated from the test circuit, so its probes float relative to ground. Many PSU, particularly those small wall wart switchers, have their negative terminals referenced to ground, so that ground has to be considered as it could ruin your day, and your device under test.A proper lab grade PSU however, does have floating power inputs, and a separate earth ground input. If you disconnect the negative terminal from earth ground, in this case the green and black terminals often have a shorting bar on the screw terminal, it would be safer to use the lab grade PSU to power the DMM and recharge the battery.Quote from: Rutger on March 29, 2011, 03:29:16 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 08:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on March 29, 2011, 02:40:17 pmI still remember taking a real hammering for that review, giving it the thumbs up.Strange that I've never heard anyone who has actually owned it giving it the thumbs downYes, the only major downside is the battery life (and outdoor visibility) on the OLED version, that's the price you pay. I'd personally prefer the LCD version because of that.If you only use the meter occasionally for precision work then an Alkaline or Lithium battery would work quite well (but may become expensive in time).Bypassing meter protection to add an external supply is just asking for trouble.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 10:32:03 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on March 29, 2011, 08:10:26 pmHow many lab power supplies are there with outputs rated for CAT III 1000V / CAT IV 600V? Adding external power to a DMM that was not designed for it is a stupid idea, bench meters use an isolated topology (floating input circuit, anything close to the user is grounded), and are usually not even rated for CAT III.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 05:23:59 am
content: Some things I noticed about the 1251A after opening it up and checking it out:* It was nice that Agilent includes lots of accessories that Fluke don't: Carrying case (with nice pockets as mentioned above), test leads with many attachments. Also, the USB cable doesn't cost as much as a mid-range DMM (Yes, Fluke, I'm talking to YOU!). That said, while the test leads with attachments are versatile, they feel a little chintzy compared to Fluke/Pomona leads. Something about the plastic (and the attachment insulation such as on the alligator clips) seems, er, light and plasticky. Fluke leads feel more substantial.* The display update is out of this world! I actually wouldn't mind slowing it down a bit. I'm not sure the fast update really is providing me any benefit.* I haven't tried data logging, but I know that with the Fluke 289 I always use the trend plot function, so I think that logging without graphics will be a letdown. It's a nice size for a logging meter; the Fluke is a brick.* The display is a little bit cluttered, but not too bad, and I much prefer the 7-segment LCD for routine readings to the "smooth" digits of the 289. I don't know why Fluke doesn't have an option to simulate a 7-segment display for doing basic measurements...* I like that the meter turns on with the rotary knob, rather than a power button. I know others feel differently. Power-on is very quick. The 289 is a dog on startup. One great feature is that there is a OFF position on both ends of the dial. Very clever! The switch has an excellent feel to it.* Continuity test is painfully slow; the trick of using the diode setting is a good one, Dave! Also, the beep is on the intermittent side. I am not sure it's latched. Even my old Fluke 8060A is far better for continuity.* On the other hand: Voltage readings are lightning quick!* A real calibration record included! Mine was sitting around a long time: Calibration was in November 2008, only good until April 2009. On the positive side, the actual data is very impressive. Most of the readings were 3-4X better than spec, some even 10X better than spec!* No Golden Power batteryNo battery rattling, either.As many others have said, at it's original price, I think you'd do better with a Fluke 87V unless you needed logging. It was shown elsewhere on EEVblog that this is a rebadged Escort. Anyone know what that Escort used to cost? At the giveaway price that Grainger had, it is definitely worth the money.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 06:00:44 am
content: I just got two in the mail, one for me and one for a student group. I bought the 1252 for myself based on battery life, but they were out by the second order, so the group got a 1253a. As it turned out, we decided that the shite outdoor visibility and short battery life made the 1252 a better fit, so I took the 1253 for myself since I mostly do bench work, and have an alright LCD meter myself. As far as the screen, for my use I think I like the OLED more. It's crisp and beautiful, and I had trouble navigating on the LCD. so I'm pleased.The one thing I did notice, though, is that the test voltages are way higher than my other DMM! My $75 craftsman 82334 has an ohms mode test voltage of ~.23v and a continuity mode voltage of .438v. The 1253 has .935v (okay, higher but not bad) and 3.95v (!) respectively. Short circuit current for the agilely is also 1mA where it's 137uA for the craftsman. There's probably too high an output impedance to do any damage to a chip with that 4v, but I'd still be scared to accidentally drive a pin of a 2.5v IC with the meter in continuity! Also, the shunt resistances were .3ohms in A and 2.4 in mA for the agilent vs .05 and 1.76 for the craftsman. Though I don't think I compensated for the leads so I might not trust those to be exact. The point remains that I don't know why the craftsman is so much lower.Given that, Im going to have to look more closely at the datasheets for the two to see about those values. They make me a little less confident about the agilent, although it's definitely a step up.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 09:31:58 am
content: Quote from: grenert on March 30, 2011, 05:23:59 amI thought Gossen were the masters of USB lead price extortion!What is it, $450?Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 09:36:54 am
content: Quote from: alexwhittemore on March 30, 2011, 06:00:44 amYes, the OLED screen is just lovely to look at (flickers like buggery on camera though!). Shame it chews the power and doesn't work outdoors.I wish you could have the best of both worlds here.Dave.

author: Strube09
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 12:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: grenert on March 30, 2011, 05:23:59 amGrenert,Turn your multimeter to continuity and then hit the scale button until it is in the 500M Range. The continuity is much much faster.Strube09

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 01:46:41 pm
content: For general troubleshooting, the higher output voltage may likely to there to test high power LEDs, as Dave showed in some of his DMM tests; this ranges now from 0.6v, for your basic signal type diodes, to over 3V for high power colored LEDs. Higher voltages are also needed when testing much higher ohmage resistors, the 1252/3a has a scale 10x higher than the Fluke 87V, 500megaohm.The shunt resistance depends on how the design converts current, so is less a concern compared to its effective burden voltage for the mA setting.Quote from: alexwhittemore on March 30, 2011, 06:00:44 am

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:18:21 pm
content: Actually, I followed Strube09's suggestion to set the range to 500M, it's awesome. Theres a slight (few ms?) lag from contact to buzzer, but the registration happens lightning fast- I can't make it fail to trigger, so you'll never get a false negative if you've made contact.Also, more test voltage mysteries: 1. This isn't diode mode, so I wouldn't expect it to be a high enough test v to light one. And 1mA short circuit wouldn't light it anyway, just break it down. But more to the point, the voltage is 4v up until the higher Kohms ranges when it DROPS to 1v, still 1mA SC. WHY it's lower in the 500M range than others I don't know, but it makes the continuity range basically perfect!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:21:14 pm
content: I share your sentiments, the leads are a bit gummy or thin feeling. Great quality, I'd use them and trust the name Agilent on them, but I wouldn't buy them compared to the Fluke or Pomona leads. White test leads are very distinctive for Agilent, but I'd see pros getting these looking dirty very easily; dark colors hide dirt better.The 1251a knob control is good fix on their part, the other 'off' position is were the signal generator is in the 1252a version, so making it an off switch was better than doing nothing like some of the buttons on the new Agilent widescreen 50,000 wfms/s DSO.The Grainger sale price still is far lower than what Escort listed, ~€300. I'm not so sure what entirely was redesigned internally on these but here's the separated at birth chart. Maybe they are all Escort inside as the labels state they are made in Taiwan instead of Agilent Malaysia factory, were other DMMs are made:http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=1441000&nid=-536902435.0.00&id=1441000http://shop.micronplus.ro/view_product.php?product=2085Quote from: grenert on March 30, 2011, 05:23:59 am

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:32:06 pm
content: You guys seem to rag on the probes a lot, but I love them! Way nicer than the stock probes from the fluke 17s anyway. They're long, sharp (though not needles) and they don't resist movement. And they feel great in the hand! I'm a huge fan, not to mention the accessories that come with.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:42:49 pm
content: They are wonderful probes, its the silicone that makes it so supple and soft. If you have both Agilent and Fluke or Pomona leads to compare side by side, you'll have a better contrast. Cheapo leads are typically PCB insulation: stiff, safe, cheap, and ? mildy toxic, and this could have shipped with your Fluke 17.Quote from: alexwhittemore on March 30, 2011, 02:32:06 pm

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:46:38 pm
content: You guys are right, don't use an external power supply on the 9V power jack.There was a suggestion that usage using an external supply would be limited to 'low' voltage ..Quote from: saturation on March 29, 2011, 02:40:17 pmwhich reduces risk for high voltage events, but the whole point of the floating DMM is to be as safe as our technology allows.Operating the DMM precisely on what its not supposed to be done violates the safety Agilent painstakingly put into the meters, and the subsequent external agency testing and certification, and the cost that went into making it CAT IV 600V.That said, it can be done, but it has potential consequences and you'd best be aware what they are, to risk it. In the old days, early portable DMMs, decades before CAT ratings, did have external power supply jacks that were were simply grafted on battery power lines, with a diode to prevent battery charging or without one to charge them. When CAT ratings were introduced, all non-CAT rated meters were deprecated or retired, and are not to be used for any professional work, at the minimum.Quote from: alm on March 29, 2011, 10:32:03 pmQuote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2011, 08:38:50 pm

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:54:27 pm
content: I'd just like to thank Dave for reviewing the OLED meter, user "Russel" for letting us know about the clearance sale, and user "reagle" for letting me know the U1253A was included.I decided that the U1253A would be my birthday present from my wife - she did great this year. I should help her out more often!

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 02:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on March 30, 2011, 02:42:49 pmKeep in mind there are two common styles of Fluke probe - the Silicone probes, which are the better of the two, and the standard, which are better than most if not all generic, cheap-o probes. The Agilent silicone probes are about equal to the Fluke silicone, depending on what's important to you, some may say one edges the other. The Fluke 17 comes with the standard probes, I believe. The 289 comes with the silicone, I'm not sure about the 87-5, I think it has the standard probes.

author: dimlow
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 03:04:47 pm
content: I would really like one of these meters considering the price. I emailed Grainger support and asked why they cant sent to the UK. All i got back was "Export restictions from the manufacturer prevent it". So I was cheeky enough to offer the young lady that replied to my mail a personal bonus of $50 if she could supply me one but she refusedJust noticed Dave has put his one on ebay, but its priced out of my pocket, so i have no chance of buying that one.Sometimes I wish I lived in the states, you guys have it so lucky there for the price of electrical items. Usually if its $100 in the States its £100 in the UK. UK is a pure rip off.Rant over!

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 03:35:23 pm
content: Re:wall plug: just.frigging.don't. If you gave a cheapy you don't mind killing, try this. Imagine you have a ground-referenced 12v PSU that you want to measure. Plug the PSU in, and plug the meter in. Both are now tied common to earth. Now, as you might, clip the -lead to +12 on the PSU as if you wanted to reference your measurement to 12v. Maybe nothing happens, but more likely, you've just created a loop shorting 12v across your battery lead. I have lit wires on fire doing this. Literally, a 2 foot test lead caught.fire. In front of me because my PSU was accidentally ground referenced and I was trying to scope it in this way with an earth-referenced scope. 100A through a 22 gague wire will do that. Think what it'll do to your poor meter's PCB, designed to carry mA.Even if you can isolate the supply with, say, a transformer before regulation (vs a switching reg that's not isolated) you could still have issues. Less likely, but it's the same reason they say not to defeat earth ground in order to float an oscilloscope.

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 06:43:44 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on March 30, 2011, 02:54:27 pmYour welcome! I'm glad that you took advantage of the deal.I don't think I was the first to mention the clearance sale. But, after I saw it, I admit I'm guilty of spreading the word. I didn't need another multimeter, but felt that if I'm not going to take advantage of the price, someone should. In the end...I my willpower fell as I admired the U1251A for $130 and eventually ordered one.According to UPS tracking, I should receive the U1251A I ordered this afternoon.

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 11:07:18 pm
content: The U1251A meter arrived!Date of certification 24-NOV-2008Made in Taiwan on the rear labelOne of the things I noticed on the U1251A that differs from the U1253A in Dave's review is that when you turn off the continuity beep, the buttons don't beep anymore. I'm glad for that because I don't like the beep when you use the buttons. Of course, that means that if you want to use the continuity beep, you must change the tone from off to the desired frequency in the menu. Also, with the beep off you do get a short beep when you first turn the unit on, but that's it.I like the test leads. I've got two older Fluke meters, a 85 III and an 863. I don't have any preference between the test leads on the Agilent and the Flukes, they all seem good to me. I do like the little probe tip covers that came with the Agilent test leads. I've drawn blood with the Fluke test leads while stowing them or getting them out of their case. It's nice to have something to cover the sharp points.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 11:13:58 pm
content: I noticed that a few of the quirks Dave mentioned in the review are gone as well. I don't know if he just missed the fixes or if the newest revision ironed them out, but I found that on the 1253 I had full control over the "Agilent" splash screen on startup, the startup chime, and button press beeps. As well as the tone of the beeps, which was cool.I've definitely seen a few things I'd have changed in the next firmware (so perhaps they've been changed in the B series), but nothing truly aggravating.

author: buffalo960
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 11:17:41 pm
content: I just got mine in the mail todayThanks to Russel who alerted about the clearance. It almost seemed too good to be true

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 02:14:38 am
content: Yes, I noticed that the U1251A doesn't have the Galaga soundtrack.Thanks, Strube09, for the continuity tip!Going over the manuals for the 125X series, I see a few differences in the user options. One thing I miss in the "lower" end models is the ability to do smoothing of the data, as I had complained about earlier. It seems the 1253A is superficially similar, but has something different beyond the pretty display. This also goes with the manufacture in Malaysia (where the lab Agilent equipment is typically made) instead of Taiwan for the lower models. Incidentally, the 1602A oscilloscope is made in Korea (!). When I get a chance and the battery is charged, I can post some comments and comparison with a Fluke Scopemeter.Viva Grainger!

author: Ronnie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 08:06:15 am
content: Quote from: dimlow on March 30, 2011, 03:04:47 pmMaybe there is a company policy that Grainger employees are excluded from the clearance offer?Quote from: dimlow on March 30, 2011, 03:04:47 pmSame here in the Philippines!So what are the reasons electronic test equipment are cheap in the states compared to other countries?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 12:53:50 pm
content: There is an international 'worldwide' Grainger link on the website, and it explains a lot; local distributors in different countries. They can't sell and thus, compete with them.As for other prices, its often importation taxes and protectionist policies of your country pumping up the price of an import item.Many China vendors will ship the Rigol 1052e to the USA for $400, that is certain, but you can buy it locally here for the same amount as there is little to no tax on electronics items imported into the US. A list of what is protected is on the ITC website. You'll get taxed for imported natural products like wood, sugar, etc., and fined for bringing in goods violating local US patents or copyrights, including electronics, but if you are not on the list, it can be cheaper than cheap.http://hts.usitc.gov/Quote from: Ronnie on March 31, 2011, 08:06:15 am

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 07:37:21 pm
content: Here is the U1251A that I didn't really need...but couldn't pass up the price.I really like some of the features that this meter has. My Fluke 863 will log data, but only with a computer attached. The memory in the Agilent meter is very handy.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2011, 08:20:33 pm
content: Nice photo! Better than most on google for the unit, shows the markings very nicely and the solid LCD readout.I made a poor mans logger using my Velleman HPS40 in slow roll mode, but this DMM offers better ease. Logging needs long battery life, the maximum automatic collection interval is 9999 seconds, 2.8 hours. Set that way it can collect data for up to 560 hours, [ 200 data points, per the manual] beyond the battery life of these models.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2011, 07:09:09 pm
content: The reason for refusing to export may also be Agilent. For example, tequipment.net has/had (haven't checked recently) a notice on their website stating they're unable to sell products from some manufacturers like Fluke and Tektronix outside the US because the companies don't allow the export (to protect their local distributors). Try buying say a Fluke 87V from Digikey or Mouser from any country where Fluke distributes their products except the US/Canada. If you want to be an authorized reseller, you have to play by their rules.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2011, 08:03:12 pm
content: Quote from: alm on April 01, 2011, 07:09:09 pmAnd this behavior is disgusting. Companies like Agilent, Fluke, and Tektronix heavily benefit from globalization and do manufacturing, and often even engineering, wherever in the world they get the best deals. Even this distributors benefit from globalization. However, manufacturers and distributors deny customers to benefit from globalization, too.They behave as if it is their god-given right to deny customers to buy where they get a good deal. The more often I experience this disgusting behavior, the more the gray market becomes attractive.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2011, 08:21:10 pm
content: Agreed, wasn't trying to defend this, just suggesting that Agilent may be to blame, instead of (or in addition to) Grainger.

author: dimlow
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2011, 08:28:36 pm
content: class action time!

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2011, 08:49:39 pm
content: Keep in mind these companies do the same thing in reverse. Take fluke: you can buy a fluke 15 on dealextreme for $80, the lowest end non-trms fluke there is. But you can't get it in the US because it'd undercut their own market and image as the best-of-the-best in that market. The point is to keep different markets differentiated in a time when it's increasingly easy to blur the lines. So the behavior makes sense.Not to say that I agree, though. Eventually the synthetic barriers to the separate markets will have to fall, so they should start thinking sooner rather than later how to develop their product lines such that a global market and pricing structure is no longer the problem that it is now.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 12:18:53 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on April 01, 2011, 08:03:12 pmI disagree. Agilent has every right to set the rules for their dealers. They are the ones who have to deal with warranty issues and customer complaints when things go wrong. If they have control over their dealers, they know if a dealer is competent to handle problems. You think Walmart is going to have a solution when an uninformed customer complains that his Agilent XXX doesn't do what he thought it would do? Also, most of Agilent's business is to institutions, businesses, professionals who typically deal with full-service, full-price dealers (folks buying equipment costing tens or hundreds of thousands aren't bargain shopping). Do you think those dealers are going to continue to work with Agilent if they let overseas sellers take away sales? Agilent needs its authorized dealers, and the dealers need Agilent to protect their turf.And your comparison with globalization in their manufacturing processes is completely off the mark. Agilent's products are THEIR products. No one entity owns the labor and resources of the world. And I would bet that when they buy Vishay resistors or Panasonic capacitors, they buy them from an authorized dealer.

author: insurgent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 04:11:20 am
content: Is it just me or my unit or does the U1253A square wave generator have issues at low frequencies?I would have expected something similar to the "Square Wave 20hz Other" image.Inquiring minds wanna know...

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 05:02:07 am
content: I'll throw down a 5 on "scope in AC Coupled mode."when it's AC coupled, what you're looking at is the transient response of a step function, which is a spike decaying to zero. The lower frequency you go, the worse it'll get, whereas in high frequency mode, you're so far beyond the realm in which the scope's (usually something like) 10hz highpass filter makes a difference that you don't even notice a slope.

author: insurgent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 05:21:40 am
content: * insurgent hands Alex a fiver.Good call. That's exactly what the problem was. I'm glad it was me and not the meter

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 06:20:19 am
content: Quote from: grenert on April 02, 2011, 12:18:53 amI don't care a bit about you disagreeing. The thing is, there is always an idiot like you excusing bad corporate behavior, and pulling "arguments" out of their arse.QuoteAs I wrote - pulling arguments out of your arse.Agilent takes its money to buy goods and services wherever they want and wherever it pleases them in the world. When I, however, want to do the same, buying goods wherever it pleases me, there are fuckwits geting in my way, and idiots like you trying to defend them.QuoteAnd yet still they enjoy globalisation when it comes to buy parts, materials and services, like manufacturing.But enough arguing with an idiot. Have a nice live.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 01:54:19 pm
content: Agilent is not a charity nor a socialized government, and do as they please within laws, and likewise so can you the buyer; their products are not mandatory that's why there is competition. Speak with your purchase decision and how you spend your money.But rules can be bent, if you know how. If one complains about a company's policies but still buy their products then a buyer has some blame too for buying into their game and then complaining of being screwed.However, regardless of viewpoints, its uncalled for to move a simple discussion into ad hominem attacks.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 02:48:47 pm
content: Yes please can we all calm down, I've not read the entire thread but it looks like people need to accept that others have different views here

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 03:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on March 31, 2011, 08:20:33 pmThank you. The display is a pain in the posterior to photograph well. I gave up trying to use fluorescent light and used the patio table, in the shade.The Agilent meter will be good for shorter logging needs. Although the Fluke 863 can be inconvenient, due to the need for a computer, it does have an optional external power supply which allows powering from the mains.Thinking of the 863, one of the other things I like about the U1251A is it's hand held multimeter size. The 863 is a bit large!

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 03:08:36 pm
content: I've experienced both living in a country where prices are way out of control (Poland) and here in the US where they are ridiculously low at times but not always. As a consumer, I obviously prefer it here. If the argument was always to adapt prices to local conditions (like Fluke does with the special line of meters in China) then I'd be ok with it, but that's not how it works most of the time. I started in graphic design in Poland and because of Apple and Adobe pricing at the time, I used a PC and Corel Draw like most other designers there. People in the industry here in the US can't understand how any designer wouldn't use a Mac and Adobe products until I explain the pricing policies that we had to deal with (not to mention the fact that Apple OS wasn't available in Polish for a very long time...).The same holds true for the hand, test and power tools that I use as an electrician. They would cost the same or more in Poland than they do here in the US, although hourly rates are a fraction of what we earn. I've never understood the logic behind it and it's always pissed me off.

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2011, 04:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: insurgent on April 02, 2011, 05:21:40 amIf it makes you feel better, I only called it because I'd literally made the same mistake 30 seconds prior

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 12:20:52 am
content: Interesting, the U1251A comes with a carrying case, the U1253A doesn't.(I opened my U1253a today. Dave's correct. It's like sex on a stick.)

author: alexwhittemore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 12:28:35 am
content: I got the best of both worlds: I bought a 1252A, given concerns about battery life and outdoor display. My student group got a 1253 since it's all they had left, but the group really needs the ability to read it in sun and we can't have it dying in the field, so I traded with them directly (since I paid more anyway, grainger has an educational discount I didn't know about when I placed the first order). So I have the case and extended lead kit with the 1253A.

author: insurgent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 04:06:13 am
content: FWIW I performed some simple tests on the U1253A with respect to battery life and the display brightness setting.The unit was set to record mV and was set to auto-log samples at a 60 second interval. This prevented the unit from sleeping and also gave me a time frame as to when it pooped out. I had it hooked to a thermocouple unit that delivers temperature @ 1 degree/mV that I got for my Radio Shack meter that doesn't directly interface to thermocouples (I don't yet have the Agilent adapter).I didn't measure any power consumption or any other parameters (other than temperature!).I performed the test twice, both starting from a full charge. The first with the display brightness set to "Low" and the second set to "High".Results:Low - 14.06 hoursHigh - 9.3 hoursI'm sure it would differ with the other various measurement modes. Regardless, the display isn't as "sexy" on Low as it is on High, but it's really just as useful in a room lighting situation and can extend the battery life by a sizable margin.People are forbidden from posting similar test results for the U1252A!

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 11:11:11 am
content: Good to see that the official 8hr claim is reliable.None of this 3.5hrs of battery life on your laptop with wifi off, bluetooth off, screen dimmed low, all power saving options on, not-actually-doing-anything-on-it rating.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 12:12:30 pm
content: Yes, it better be. Misstating the contents of a spec sheet is unacceptable; since one gauges the capabilities of a device almost entirely by that sheet until you can test it yourself, at which case you've already bought it. In my experience with reputable gear, Agilent, old HP, Fluke, B&K, etc., will understate contents of the spec sheet rather than overstate it.One nice thing about NiMH chemistry is long shelf life so its great for DMM; charge/discharge cycles determine it lifespan more than time compared to Li rechargeables [not Li primaries, which have up to 10 year shelf life] which deteriorate over time whether you use it or not.

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 02:10:53 pm
content: I've received my 1253A today, pretty fast considering I'm in IsraelI didn't have time to test it much yet, perhaps I'll stop by the lab in the next few days (I'm an EE student, so we have quite a bit of gear available to us here at the university), and play with it a little.I must say I'm somewhat disappointed by the charging circuit. First time I've connected it to the power it finished the self-testing and gave me a "charging error" message. I than reconnected it and it started charging (after self testing), after a couple of minutes it jumped from over 1 hour to about 15 minutes. I let it finish, turned the meter on and it showed me that the battery isn't fully charged. I now reconnected it again, and once more it jumps down to about 15 minutes.Very strange and very annoying, this means I cant really trust the charging circuit to charge the battery until its completely charged up. I don't have another battery to test at the moment.Did anyone else had that issue/ has any idea what's the cause?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 06:17:12 pm
content: Wow, Toli,that's fast to Israel. FWIW, my 1252a charges perfectly, and I tried it on a 9V NiMH I use for other purposes, and charged that up too.One simple possibility is the battery is defective or its been stored for a long time; it needs to 'wake up'. If you have another 9v NiMH swap it out and check. If the DMM has been shelved for some time, you could 'revitalize' the originally shipped battery by charging and discharging it 3x before it starts to act more normally.Quote from: toli on April 05, 2011, 02:10:53 pm

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2011, 07:33:09 pm
content: Hi saturation,Indeed quick. I've used the TNT Worldshop service. They gave me a US address and than shipped it to Israel. It cost about 56$, but still a great price.I've already tried charging a few times, but it doesn't seem to make a difference, I'll try a few more times. As I've said, I'm a student, and all my gear is back home, I'll only be there next weekend, and than I'll try another battery, I have a couple of them which I use for my old DMM (how nice to be able to say the words old DMM).EDIT:After charging and discharging (leaving the meter on with APO disabled) the battery for 2-3 times, I can really see a difference. The 3rd time I've charged it, it took more than an hour, as opposed to the 20 minutes in the first try. I've left it on for 4.5 hours now, and its still going strong, with the battery indicator at about half the scale. So seems the battery was indeed the cause, and it's coming back to life.Thank you saturation.Edit2:Ended up running for a little over 5.5 hours. Lets give it another charge and see how long it will hold this time

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2011, 06:13:24 pm
content: Good to hear, if NiMH have been stored > 1 year, I think the formal term is, it needs to be 'reconditioned'. If its really been stored longer it may take longer to recondition it. The more you charge and discharge it the better it will be until it plateaus to its best performance. Great! Up and running you are good, enjoy. Ideally, you should discharge the NiMH battery it near 1V per cell. Note, a 9V NiMH is not really 9V, its 1.2V x cells. If the actual terminal voltage isn't written on the battery, charge it, measure the voltage then divide by 1.2, it should be an integer value, so voltages should be 7.2, 8.4, 9.6 for 6,7,8 cells respectively.Quote from: toli on April 05, 2011, 07:33:09 pm

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2011, 06:57:13 pm
content: Some updates:Once more the battery lasted for 5 hours. However, I believe its not charging completely, it only charges the battery for 1 hour and 9 minutes (I believe it was the same in Dave video). This time I've charged it twice, and I will test it tomorrow to see if it hold for more than 5 hours or so.Do other U1253A's charge for more than 1:09? Anyone can comment on that?The manual states it has a maximum charging time of 220 minutes, not 69 minutes like it actually does.BTW, were can I find a good source of info about batteries? I would like to learn a bit more as to the different types of batteries available, pros and cons, how each of them should be charged (in terms of charging current, etc..).

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2011, 07:54:40 pm
content: Thanks for the feedback on the 1253a, the charge time could be shorter if it has higher charge current. The 1252a begins a 220 minutes and countsdown, after it the system passes a sort of 'check.' If the battery is partly full, it terminates early, beeps a few times, then goes intro trickle charge.For general info on batteries, 2 good online sources are Wikipedia and batteryuniversity.com.http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/Nickel_based_batteriesWikipedia is shorter and more terse.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_batteryQuote from: toli on April 06, 2011, 06:57:13 pm

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2011, 08:31:01 pm
content: Thank you for the link.I'll only be home next weekend, so I'll use my other DMM, and test the current running into to the battery (as opposed to the current out of the charger which also power's the screen, we'll see just how much current it uses to charge the battery.I'll also try another battery, the other batteries I have are of relatively low quality, but it'll hopefully give me some more info.