Salt Water Automobiles - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 08:42:38 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Submitted for your perusal the latest EV design:http://www.gizmag.com/quant-e-sportlimousine-approved-europe-roads/33020/--Scientific and engineering comments are invited, as I am relatively uninformed about this technology. Also I include some, of my best "Robert Heinlein" guesses as to where this all is going. As I understand it, this design, like many others is "emission-less" when supplied electricity by solar, wind, water, geothermal, and other power sources which have only nominal infrastructure related emissions. And, "emission-less" in the sense, say for instance, where the EV is driven in dense urban areas, far from fossil power plants, and with poor atmospheric recirculation where emissions tend to pile up. Various European metropolitan environs prohibit emissive vehicles in city centers at various hours. Often allowing only battery driven vehicles, and then, only at night.--I like the idea of electric vehicles, but I think it would save money if the government(s) would confine their spending of taxpayer funds to serious research efforts by the best scientists of the universities. My government, in my opinion, has a rather poor record of trying to pick winning technologies. And so, I advocate science above policy.--The Interesting Times We Live In - RAH Guesses1) Increasing Oil and Gas Reserves, and declining wholesale prices, will make short term dislocations increasingly unlikely.2) Declining photovoltaic solar panel prices, will continue due to new cutting edge technologies, and not merely because of Chinese dumping.3) Declining battery mass to power ratios, accompanied by declining costs of various battery technologies.4) Various cutting edge nuclear power technologies, which can step in if all others fail, will make all the "Chicken Little" doomsday scenarios less credible.--With regard to debate: Please just make your argument logically and scientifically and eschew the Ad Hominem. Please do not accuse to opposition of being stupid, or claiming that the opposition is accusing you of being stupid, as one of our more prominent posters is wont to do. Please just deal with the "argument" like any second year debater would be required to do."A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier."H. L. Mencken 1880 -1956Best RegardsClear Ethe

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 09:14:38 am
content: flow cell technology exists for quite a long time. but the generators are bulky - those are used as stationary power plants to equalize the load on the grid (charging the electrolyte during night and producing electricity during day).the technology would be perfect for cars because you can either charge it or simply "refuel" it by changing the electrolyte. and last but not least it could be even cleaner than the current EV technology - because you don't need tons of lithium.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 03:34:21 pm
content: Hmm, my understanding is the energy density is terrible. There are only a few chemistries available, I think the vandium one is the most popular, at least for stationary purposes. The fundamental problem is twofold: 1. you're not going from highest to lowest oxidation state, as with lithium for example you get a solid 3V from just one step (metal to Li+), so the voltage is low; 2. you can only dissolve so much of this stuff in water, so the volumetric efficiency is poor, plus you have to lug around all that damn water, so the weight efficiency is terrible too!On the plus side, leaking electrolyte won't start a fire, it'll just get warm (when the anolyte and catholyte mix). Bit of an environmental disaster though, all those heavy metals.But maybe there's something better out there, I don't know what all chemistries are available for that technique.Suppose it's worth noting that, if they don't need to add luggage space in that thing, they can provide an awful lot of space for all their junk: the only internals strictly required are two front seats. It would be counter-productively heavy to occupy all that space, but then, if they can just load up more BoostCaps and NdFeB in the motors, they can do literally whatever they want.Tim

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2014, 06:18:03 pm
content: fully agree with you Tim. but probably they discovered some new and better chemistry suitable for flow cellsi can't think of any other reason why they invested into a prototype and got it certified for road testing.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2014, 07:09:04 am
content: Most likely a variety or development of Zinc- Cerium Methanessulfonate battery as this has the highest voltage of flow batteries at 2.43 Volts and the greatest power density of 1200 to 2500 watts per square meter.The cars website says that the operational voltage is 600 so as few cell as possible would be desirable i guess along with a large as possible energy density and the cheapest and safest chemicals.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery