Tektronix AFG2021 function/arb generator - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 06:09:09 pm
content: Just got this off Ebay. Took a few pictures of the internals.Goodness! Is that a PCI slot I see in the fourth picture?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:50:56 pm
content: It doesn't look at all like a PCI slot to me, but maybe I'm not looking at the same thing?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:55:05 pm
content: I don't see any pictures

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 08:03:06 pm
content: Oh, I found it in the other post

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 08:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on July 14, 2016, 07:55:05 pmI don't know what happened. they were there...Let's try again.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 08:14:02 pm
content: And two more. One shows the PCI-like connector.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:23:13 pm
content: I am always surprised how much these Tektronix AFGxxxx go on ebay.Looks nice.It is probably a testing port for the factory and they used a PCI connector for convenience, I guess

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:31:22 pm
content: I think you put a typo in your title; it's an AFG2021, not 2012!I've got one of these as well. Rather awesome little unit. My only advice would be to change out the fan, it sounds like a wind tunnel! (I dropped a MagLev fan in mine.)

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on July 14, 2016, 09:23:13 pmThe older, largish AFG units you see on eBay certainly don't sell for the asking prices (thousands of USD). I don't know why they're listed for the prices they are, but it's insane. Especially considering the vintage (mid-90's) and functionality.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:35:10 pm
content: Aren't these generators Chinese rebadges? I recall someone has come up with generators from a Chinese brand which look suspiciously similar.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: timb on July 14, 2016, 09:31:22 pmYou are correct - it's a AFG2021. I changed the original title, thanks.I don't think the fan noise is that bad, just a slight whirring noise. Is it possible yours was going EOL?Jay

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on July 14, 2016, 09:40:41 pmUnless I got a bum unit, I don't think so as it was brand new direct from Tektronix.It seemed to just be a very high RPM fan and, due to fact there's only the one set of air inlets on the case, led to high static pressure, which made the fan loud. Maybe they changed the fan out after yours was made (or before mine was)? Or maybe it's just not as noticeable for you due to other noise in your lab?For me, it was the loudest piece of equipment in my lab, second only to the stock Papst fan in my HP counter (which I also replaced with a much quieter MagLev).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 02:49:55 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 14, 2016, 09:35:10 pmYes, these are OWON AG10xx/20xx :http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=177Tek's variant has a slightly different front panel and rear connector layout.The OWON original is <$300 while Tek wants north of $1k for the ones with their name on. And if I remember right the Tek variant isn't even supported by Tek's AWG software (ArbExpress).

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 03:10:58 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 16, 2016, 02:49:55 pmI don't think the Tek AFG2021 are rebadged OWON units. The Tek is only single channel and goes up to 10MHz (20MHz on some functions), plus the front panel layout is completely different, as is the GUI (well, the entire firmware for that matter). There's also no "Ref Clock Out" on the Tek, plus it has GPIB and Ethernet options, which the OWON doesn't. The OWON has a built-in 200MHz frequency counter, which the Tek lacks. Finally, the Tek's PCB has Tektronix on the silkscreen.Also, the AFG2021 *is* supported by ArbExpress (Via USB and Ethernet). It also supports NI SignalExpress Tektronix Edition (or regular SignalExpress via the IVI driver).Though they look kind of sort of similar, I have a hard time believe one is a rebadge of the other. Especially considering the price and feature disparity.Edit: The 10/20MHz OWON units only do 8k points, whereas the Tek does over 100k. The OWON is also dual channel whereas the Tek is single channel. These are completely different instruments. Maybe OWON did the hardware custom for Tek? (And Tek did the firmware?) I'd buy that maybe.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 03:44:04 pm
content: I have to admit that my AWG20201 - its a different unit, one of the 90s ones - was well worth its asking price of like 200USD plus shipping.

author: Omicron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 05:04:37 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 16, 2016, 02:49:55 pmYou're mistaking the AFG2000 series with the AFG1000 series. The AFG1000 series is the crappy Owon rebadge. The AFG2021 is pretty decent and fully supported by ArbExpress.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 10:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 16, 2016, 03:44:04 pmI have the 2041. I like these older Sony units. Would not mind having a new one from Tektronix but the cost is way outside my budget. New VNA would come first.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 12:06:45 am
content: One of their later units, the 7102. There were some down sides from what I remember. The Ethernet was a problem, very slow. There was something about clocking it synchronous as well. I think it needed a 5GHz external clock minimum to work. I jigged up a mess of Mini-circuits parts to get it working.Wonder what these are going for used now.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 09:12:42 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 17, 2016, 12:06:45 amAll over the place it seems...http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=tektronix+awg7102&clk_rvr_id=1062880896997&adpos=1o1&treatment_id=7&crlp=93538045002_877&MT_ID=69&device=c&rlsatarget=kwd-20289974823&keyword=tektronix+awg7102&geo_id=10232&poi=&crdt=0&ul_noapp=trueBut none have sold in 90 days, so hard to say what they're really worth.Jay

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 03:14:14 pm
content: Imagine someone paying 90K for a ten year old system.I am looking at some data I took on this system when it first became available. Upload times for a 4M of data was 28 seconds with GPIB. With Ethernet you would think it would fly but it took 35 seconds for the same data set! Lot's of other problems with it but if you needed the data rates, BW and memory, there really was no other choice from what I could find at the time. These were up to 5.8GHz BW with 20Gs/sec. Trigger was not too bad if you drove the clock. Wonder what's the bleeding edge today.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 03:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on July 17, 2016, 09:12:42 amProbably very little. In my experience there is very little use for an AWG unless you need to create very sophisticated waveforms. A normal function generator generally does much better. Try to make a 10 second sweep from 1Hz to 1MHz. On an AWG you'd need an awfull amount of memory where a function generator does the math on the fly.I have looked at the Tektronix AWG400/500/600/700 series as well but from a functional point of view they are very clunky and loud to use just as a function generator. There are much cheaper alternatives nowadays.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 05:08:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 17, 2016, 03:23:27 pmGood point. I guess that's true for most things in that their less useful if you don't have a need. I bought an HP33120A when they came out. Before this, I had built an Arb. I also had a real crappy setup with a counter that incremented through some SEEQ EEPROMs that I buffered their digital outputs. I drove this from a function generator. The last one I made is part of an engine simulator. All digital in an FPGA.So, what does the home hobbyist use an Arb for? I have used mine to simulate:various engine position signalsfuel injection control signalsserial communicationssimulate various AC line conditionsIf it had more than one channel and higher BW, it would find more uses.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 07:39:38 pm
content: I forgot to mention one other very important point: to make the most of an AWG you'll also need waveform editing software and the good ones aren't for free! I used to own a Lecroy LW420A AWG but even though it had extended waveform editing features the process was extremely tedious. Digital channels where not very useful either because it had no tools to generate common signals like I2C, SPI, etc.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2016, 09:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: Omicron on July 16, 2016, 05:04:37 pmYou're probably right.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 01:58:29 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 17, 2016, 07:39:38 pmAnother very good point.When I bought the 33120A, I also bought the add on software to create waveforms. I believe it was called Intuilink. I don't remember it being very powerful but you could import Excel files. It seems like they offered it for free on their FTP site for a while. For digital type waveforms I used some free software from Geotest called DIOEasy. Again, not very powerful. Looks like the company was sold and they charge for it now.http://www.marvintest.com/Product.aspx?Model=DIOEasyOnce Labview 5 was released, I pretty much started using it for anything test equipment related. Sparkfun was selling a $50 kit that included a watermarked version of the base package. Several friends have purchased that kit and I tried out the version that came with it and it does not appear to be crippled in anyway beyond the watermark.With Labview there is a fairly rich library making driving an Arb fairly simple.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 03:12:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 17, 2016, 03:23:27 pmFor those that aren't clear on the differences between an AFG and AWG,Tektronix has a nice little PDF on the subject.Personally, my AFG does everything I need (normally I'm just generating standard waveforms). Occasionally I need to generate something I've captured on my scope; I'll also generate waveforms from LTSpice simulations, which is a very powerful prototyping tool!Where I run into trouble is when I'm trying to generate some sort of specific glitch on top of a standard waveform, or a series of very specific pulses (of variable amplitude). The AFG just doesn't reproduce those waveforms faithfully. I could really use an AWG for that.I've been looking for one on eBay for awhile now. I'd be happy with an older model, but the prices are insane! People want thousands of dollars for a 20 year old piece of equipment. Worse yet, I make a reasonable offer and they reject it; then the item just sits and never sells. There's units that have been listed for almost two years now! *Sighs*

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2016, 05:31:59 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 17, 2016, 03:14:14 pmI guess something like this:http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2583267-pn-M8196A/92-gsa-s-arbitrary-waveform-generators?nid=-32928.1139580&cc=GB&lc=eng32GHz bandwidth and 92GSa/s sample rate, although only 8bit resolution and 512kpts memory.Tek also has its AWG70k for up to 20GHz, with 50GSa/s sample rate @10bit and up to 16Gpts memory:http://www.tek.com/signal-generator/awg70000-arbitrary-waveform-generatorQuote from: nctnico on July 17, 2016, 07:39:38 pmWell, Tek has a really good waveform editor (ArbExpress) that is free, but yes in general I agree that the free waveform editing programs that come with AWGs these days are either poor value (i.e. Keysight, who wants to charge a few hundred bucks extra for anything abive very basic functionality) or shit (i.e. Siglent's and Rigol's software).Somehow it seems only Tektronix understands that a decent waveform editor is part of an AWG package.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 02:39:28 am
content: They should have the Ethernet sorted out by now. I wonder how well the trigger works on the new Tek.Looking at the applications note for ArbExpress. Looks decent.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 11:37:12 am
content: Simple Labview application I put together for my AWG2040. Shown with five cycles of a 1KHz square wave, AM modulated with a 10KHz square wave and a single point glitch at address 4000.This Arb can sequence through a series of waveforms, it also has some other features like markers, filters, etc. I've not had the need and just hard coded most of the options.