Cluttered websites, too many fonts/colours and generally over-"busy" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 09:55:11 pm
content: Is it just me, or do you find this website hard to follow?https://www.chibiakumas.com/6502/platform.php#LessonP1I find my eyes not knowing what to look at first, and it's SO distracting! I am sure he knows his ASM very well, but perhaps he's not so hot at web design...

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 03, 2020, 09:55:11 pmPlease try this one:https://www.chibiakumas.com/6502/platform.php?theme=print&noui=1It does look not pretty terrible, but the other theme(s) seem to look a lot better. But, it does let you change the theme, see above.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:05:24 pm
content: No it’s not you, the site is awful to look at, would give me a migraine if I stayed on itEdit: the above link by MK14 is fine.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:06:31 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 03, 2020, 10:05:00 pmThank you, now I have a still cluttered site to decypher, only with milder colours

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:11:00 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on September 03, 2020, 10:05:24 pmOne can see why Apple have back-end teams for code, designers for designs, and engineers for engineering, eh! I think some are simply "design blind"; it's counter-productive to simply spew out your musings into a high-contrast jumbled mess, rather than not share them at all, as it just one more barrier to getting the code learnt! Good design is hard to get right, and I don't expect perfection, but it would be nice not to leave MORE confused than when you arrived, esp when learning a subject which is pretty intense/confusing as it IS:Dieter Rams has some words about design~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~According to Dieter Rams, good design:Is innovativeMakes a product usefulIs aestheticMakes a product understandableIs unobtrusiveIs honestIs long-lastingIs thorough down to the last detailIs environmentally friendlyInvolves as little design as possible

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:11:17 pm
content: I don’t care how good the content might be, I cannot and will not torture myself to view crap like that. That is what a website on LSD looks like.I damn near got fired from a job when the boss insisted my industrial machine control Windows UI was too drab and dull. I printed out all of the graphics pages in black and white and and gave them to the boss with a brand new box of 64 colors of crayons and asked him to please show me what he would like the pages to look like with color. He didn’t think it was funny. Not only didn’t he understand UI, he had no sense of humor either.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: WattsThat on September 03, 2020, 10:11:17 pmI am holding back, because I don't want to come across as mean, overly critical or nasty; I value the work put in, I just don't see it as usable.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 11:51:19 pm
content: QuoteIt has a BBC Micro feel to it..http://www.bbcmicro.co.uk/gameimg/screenshots/3472/Disc999-SIGMAExperiment.png

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 12:01:32 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on September 03, 2020, 11:51:19 pmThe only point of similarity is bright colours on a black background; that's where the similarity ends. The image you've shown is neat and orderly, CLEAR and easy to parse.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 02:31:27 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 03, 2020, 09:55:11 pmA bit like a Rigol 'scope UI.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 02:37:17 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 03, 2020, 09:55:11 pmIt is you. The site is about programming on retro computers. The theme seems to be inline with the content. How old are you, in 90-s every other site looked like that.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 04:50:09 am
content: Quote from: Bud on September 04, 2020, 02:37:17 amWell clearly it's not JUST me, based on the other thread replies. No, not "all" sites looked this way in the 90s; I was there, and I'm 45.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 05:51:17 am
content: The webpage is about old 8-bit computers and their graphics of the era ... hence the retro look and 8 colour palette. The webpage does not bother me, it's packed with content and well organized, which is more important to me than looks. Yeah the red text font is a bit meh. This is like complaining about Minecraft's graphic resolution being too chunky.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:07:04 am
content: Theentirewebpage is loaded in 800 ms. Impressive these days.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:39:28 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on September 04, 2020, 05:51:17 am"Well organised"It has no need to "look like"anything, except for a clear and legiblle site that teaches one how to program the machines which had no other alternative BUT to look that way (albeit in a far more legible, minimalist and clear manner).I'm talking to a brick wall here. Engineers with an engineering mindset are notorious for being "design blind" when it comes to human interfacing, layout, typography, ease of navigation etc. This epidemic is made worse by the oft-adopted, insular opinions of the "stupid users!" kind, based on assumptions that, just because the person who "designed" said mechanism, understands it inside out, theneveryoneshould, else "stupid users!"No, the majority of human beings can read a book, and plain text with high contrast. The redundant, distracting, frivolus embellishments DETRACT from the very purpose this website sets out to achieve.If you watch the guy's YouTube videos, an equal lack of attention is paid to how clear the published tutorials are for the viewer. We see the ghastly website in the background, his webcam streaming as a floating box AND a terminal into which he's typing... and he's made the common error of leaving the terminal font size at default scale, or near enough.Just because one knows a subject inside out, doesn't automatically qualify them as a competent teacher.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 07:00:31 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on September 04, 2020, 06:07:04 amI'd rather wait 8 seconds for a simple, aesthetically calm page, and be able to learn the subject matter, and leave with no eye strain!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 09:50:07 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on September 04, 2020, 06:07:04 amYep. And then it gets closed within another 800 ms.

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 10:53:22 am
content: Yeah sure that website looks terrible.In contrast but just as terrible are those large corporate websites.Examples:https://global.abb/group/enhttps://www.henkel.com/They don't suck in appearance but in content. I've tried to use those websites to find some info on one of their products. 9 out of 10 cases when you enter their product number you don't get any results. The content that is there is all those awful vague marketing bla bla.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 10:53:51 am
content: in my opinion its not just cluttered websites but too much advertising on any given website.visit some websites, you get hit with one or two media players trying to load plus pop ups , last but not least cookiesthis is why my browser needs a good cleaning to remove the crumbs from many websites.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 11:19:46 am
content: It's a fairly good representation of what was considered horrible back some 25-35 years ago, mostly of what "BBS kiddies" like myself were doing while still kids. More professional standard was a lot better.Sadly, today, the level of professional standard has lowered while the "kiddie" standard has risen, and they have almost met.I still prefer this horrible piece of shit over the modern equivalent. At least it's a static page. You could make the content appear and disappear and jump around randomly to modernize the experience.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 11:21:58 am
content: Content was displayed with JavaScript turned off and cookies disabled.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 11:37:11 am
content: Some of the contents, on that website is amazing though, a working PDP11/70 (and at least one other model, PDP11/45). Not only is it fully working, with big, flashing Leds/Bulbs and switches, which are movable and work.But it can load real life software, such as the Basic, and you can then run Basic programs (I believe, because it is a bit tricky to know how to use it).See here:https://skn.noip.me/pdp11/pdp11.htmlEDIT: To get Basic running:At boot prompt, type in ...boot rp231-OCT-86 ... Takes time to respond11:12 ... Time ?yes ... <YES> ?yes ... <YES> ?<Return Key, after it stops displaying more stuff>11,70 .... USERswitch basic .... $ prompt should be showing, then after next <Return> Should now say "Ready"10 print "Hello World!"20 goto 10runcontrol + C .... To stop

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 12:00:49 pm
content: Go use Microsoft's Sharepoint and Teams and you will never complain again. Nicknamed Scarepoint and Screams.Not overly busy, just woefully unintuitive. Screams works OK under the hood and is great for project teams chatting in place of email, but the usability and intuitiveness of Scarepoint is not much better than Steven Job's idiotic iTunes. iTunes has gone to the grave along with Jobs, both never to be resurrected and soon will be forgotten. Unless Microsoft overhauls Scarepoint, it will go the same way, probably before Gates has kicked the bucket. Microsoft's One Drive is also a piece of crap.This "Where Do You Want to Go Today?" mentality usually ends up in failure.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 12:40:21 pm
content: Digikey's website is cluttered and busy, but it works a treat. Only thing missing is hierarchical sorting such as availability and then price. That would be wonderful. But overall, they got it right. Mouser is OK, but a bit of a poor cousin to Digikey with their website. RS Components website is shocker and to a less extent Element 14.A respected electronics company named Altronics in Australia suffers because their website search is soooo slowwwwww. They must be hosting it from the Simpson Desert with a 300 baud fax modem tied to a CB radio operating on lower side band. Their competitor Jaycar is a much faster, but since they ripped off the inventor of the Arduino Experimenter's Kit, I avoid them like the plague; preferring Rockby or Altronics as local suppliers of choice despite their website shortcomings.Most of the Japanese component websites are poorly maintained and are missing data. Some of their datasheets lack critical information. There are exceptions of course. Almost all Chinese websites are pretty much a waste of time, except maybe PCB Way. Most of these manufacturers have no idea that a well designed and informative website that provides value-add will help their marketing enormously. China has a long way to go.Texas Instruments has one of the best websites around, especially with their Webench.... 10/10 for them. TI Direct is a big bonus!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 12:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: Zeyneb on September 04, 2020, 10:53:22 amYou forgotwww.ibm.com. Full of marketing verbal diarrhoea, severely lacking in content.

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:12:36 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on September 04, 2020, 12:40:21 pmI'm wondering how chinese target audience would think about that. Does it bother them to a degree to decline doing business with a company which has a website like that? Maybe some of our chinese members can share their opinion about that?Quote from: VK3DRB on September 04, 2020, 12:44:09 pmAlright IBM too. But for my own well-being I try to forget about those marketing diarrhoea experiences. I don't think we do need IBM IT services right? I know some small dutch webshop where the owner put on his website something along "If you don't like what we are offering, take your business elsewhere!" But you know he does add meaningful specification to the products he is offering. I love that.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on September 04, 2020, 06:07:04 amThis looks like a "brain dump" by folks wanting to share knowledge/information -focused on substance and not appearance. More like pages of notes rather than pages from text books. In notes, only the important point with illustration needs would warrant a quick sketch, the rest are scribbles. Want better pictures? Go to the million-page text book and hunt.In my opinion, the cited webpage is not bad at all. It lacks just one thing: a better way to identify "Lesson" (main topic).Right now, the header for the lessons use similar font as sections under the lesson, so one has to look for the words "Lesson P..." in something like "Lesson P4 - Bitmap Functions on the Atari Lynx" to be able to identify it as start of lesson. It would make lesson start a lot more distinctive if they use a different color for it. Once one realizes "Lesson P..." starts a lesson, it became less of an issue but an issue still. A "Lesson List" right at the top of page would remedy that, and making that list active with links to the appropriate line would be great.The speed made up for a lot of faults.One could scroll very quickly to scan up or down for the topic (lesson). It is easy to miss but the speed made up for it - largely but not totally.I prefer this over the overly active pages. Substance vs Appearance, for me, substance wins.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:56:34 pm
content: QuoteJust have Asperger's instead of photoepilepsy, problem solvedBut the menus should be on the left.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2020, 06:00:04 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on September 04, 2020, 12:40:21 pmDigikey's website is terrible, it's slow and bloated, full of analytics and buggy programming.Here (pic) it's sorted by ascending capacitance, seeing anything stupid? It's doing a Radix sort or something. Sometimes it returns no hits yet I know the part exists and can find it.When I complain to Digikey, the response is "have you tried clearing the browser's cache?", "have you tried another browser?". I tell them this isn't a browser issue but they don't understand.Also, the top 25% of my screen is a wasted flymenu that never seems to work/display properly or be good for anything. I could go on with bugs and gripes, but I think this is a better example of what OP is upset about.It's getting worse at mega-corporations because their web developers are clueless about the content and just keep adding shit to justify their existence. I'm sad Digikey's website is going backwards as far as customer experience, it used to be a killer website.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2020, 08:43:53 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on September 05, 2020, 06:00:04 pmBuggy website makes me worry about their security. With a commerce sites where you have payment info, for me that is a cause for concern.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2020, 11:33:09 pm
content: Digi-Key's TOS allows them to share a lot with third-parties. Tell me your interpretation of snippets:"We may disclose your personal information to the following categories of recipients:- to our related companies and third party suppliers, partners and services providers (for example, to support the delivery or drop shipment of products ordered, provide functionality on, or help to enhance the security of our website, or for order fulfilment or market research purposes), or who otherwise process personal information for purposes that are described in this Privacy Notice or notified to you when we collect your personal information. For example, we utilize services provided by our third party partners to enable the detection of devices connected with fraud and other types of information security vulnerabilities to enhance security on our website and other pages on the internet.- to any competent law enforcement body, regulatory body, government agency, court or other third party where we believe disclosure is necessary (i) as a matter of applicable law or regulation, (ii) to exercise, establish or defend our legal rights, (iii) as part of a lawsuit or investigation, or (iv) to protect your vital interests or those of any other person;- to credit reference agencies for the purposes of identity and credit checking when placing an order,and periodically if you have an open account with us;""...These third party sources may include, but are not limited to, suppliers, third party web analytics services and social media platforms, such as YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram. The types of information we may receive from these third parties includes information on your web activity about how you interact with our website and their services and aggregated analytics. We use this information to help improve our website, provide information and advertising, and to be able to analyze aggregate click statistics and trends."I don't see hope for security or privacy. It's like Zuckerberg is doing their website design to make more profit.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 01:00:55 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on September 05, 2020, 06:00:04 pmI very rarely ever, if at all, sort on capacitance because I know what capacitance I want before I even look up a Digikey search. I generally sort of price and sometimes on qty available, and occasionally other columns.Yes it looks like a programming bug with the capacitance sorting. Sometimes datasheets are missing or the 3D model links are useless, but they are the exception because Digikey puts a lot of effort into maintaining their databases.Despite the occasional gripes, Digikey is possibly the most useful website of them all. Used by every man and his dog in the world of electronics. As someone said, if you don't like it you can take you business elsewhere.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 08:20:48 am
content: Digikey has gone worse with the latest "improvements". Like most of the others. But it could be a lot worse.Although, coming from Farnell which I somehow managed to endure for a decade before being too traumatized to ever order from them again, even the current Digikey web experience is a breeze.That sorting-by-capacitance example is interesting.Usuallyit works, and understands the SI units p, n, µ and so on scaling the numbers correctly for sorting, so clearly they know how to do it right, but just occasionally still fail.It's sad such services do not accept bug reports and have no ticket system accessible to the actual users. It would be highly important. Obviously, going through the "customer service" does not work, it never does.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2020, 02:07:59 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on September 05, 2020, 11:33:09 pmBear in mind that "open account" is a finance/trade term meaning a credit account topayafter deliveryby invoice. In such a situation, it makes complete sense that they sync bidirectionally with credit bureaus. If you haven't applied for a credit account, i.e. if you're using any other type of payment, then this won't be happening.I know that there is terminology ambiguity, since signing up for a login is also called an "account" on their website. But if you log into your Digikey, you'll see that you have your customer number(s), but there's also an "account" field. This field is only populated with an account number if you have a credit account. For example, at my work, we have individual DK logins, but they all share the same account number, because it's the company credit account. The company, at some point, had to apply for a credit account in order to pay by invoice.

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 11:12:54 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on September 06, 2020, 08:20:48 amIf you're talking about Digikey. I have to say you're wrong here. On their website click the vertical "Feedback" button on the right. Write a small note that clearly shows them what is wrong. Then they will correct it very fast. I am talking about something in a parameter field that is obviously wrong. You know, that capacitance sorting thing might take longer for them to solve. But Digikey is eager to have their website as accurate and useful as possible.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2020, 07:18:41 am
content: Quote from: Zeyneb on September 07, 2020, 11:12:54 pmI understand this is for correcting for mistakes indata, not software bugs. The report would go to the sales engineers who look at the datasheets and classify parts they stock. Well, it's already quite remarkable you can report wrong data and it will be fixed, so we should be quite happy with that.

author: keith56
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2020, 05:54:40 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 03, 2020, 09:55:11 pmI'm glad to see my website is finally getting the attention it deserves!