Teledyne Wavesurfer 3024 200MHz Oscilloscope : Any Good ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 10:40:58 pm
content: HiI may have an opportunity to get a defective Wavesurfer 3024 200MHz Oscilloscope.This is now quite old tech (released about 2014) so may not have aged well.I can't find any on-line independent reviews which tends to indicate not many were sold.I have asked for the service manual but I suspect the answer will be to send it across an ocean to the authorized dealer/stealer.Even if it isn't any good, it looks good.Opinions please.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 11:43:35 pm
content: It's a rebranded SDS3000 that were developed in partnership with LeCroy for them to have exclusive marketing rights in the west. Only fiddled with one for a few minutes at Siglent HQ in 2014.Some report the UI is slow as treacle which is probably the reason these were reworked to a SDS3000X version that I believe sports a more powerful Xilinx processor.The service manual is unlikely to have much in it other than PSU voltages and a few MB test points and probably I can get a copy for you if the 3000X is vastly different inside.https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds3000x/SDS3000 thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent_s-new-products-sds3000-series-oscilloscopes/

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 01:36:00 am
content: I'd get a Siglent, but it depends on the price. The WaveSurfers run WinCE making them a dead end in terms of service.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 01:57:22 am
content: Quote from: dazz1 on November 13, 2021, 10:40:58 pmIt is not the greatest scope out there (mostly due to trying to cram too much features using an underpowered platform) but if it is cheap then why not. What price is right depends largely on the issue. If a channel isn't working then I'd walk away but if it is an issue with the display or not powering up at all, then it is likely fixable without needing schematics but you'd need to have a talent for fixing stuff.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 02:06:24 am
content: Same as the previous thread .... you must have a good electronic knowledge .... do you have an idea of what is wrong n it ? could be an easy job or a more complex oneCan you try it a litle before you buy it ?Dont know if this puppy as a self diagnostic when it start ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 03:10:35 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on November 14, 2021, 02:06:24 amDaz's Wavetek repair this year was a bit of a challenge however it was mostly TH whereas this LeCroy will be SMD.I believe Daz has the skills and when visiting his lab back in July IIRC he does work with SMD too.Anyways it should be a good project to keep him off the streets.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 06:56:00 am
content: Member Martin72 uses these at his work and can tell you lots about their capabilities. Might be well worth dropping him a PM and link to this thread.

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 07:04:28 am
content: HiThe first Le Croy I saw had specs I didn't think could be achievable at the time. Now I am reading other posts on the Le Croy Wavesurfers that are anything but complimentary.It seems they have problems with failing hard drives. Easy to replace the HD but not finding a copy of the software could be terminal.This one comes without probes so only worth considering to purchase if the price is right.I can do smd. I am developing a long reach system for a Baush & Lomb Stereo Zoom 4 microscope I purchased off e-bay. The stand is a standard computer monitor.I have made a 3D printed ring light, based on automotive LED angel eyes.I am currently developing a Tuned Mass Damper to reduce image blurring vibration.

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 07:10:53 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 14, 2021, 06:56:00 amThanks.Done.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 07:49:35 am
content: Quote from: dazz1 on November 14, 2021, 07:04:28 amAFAIK there are no spinning drives in these only flash/NAND memory. If anything 3000 were Siglent's development platform before SDS5000X, SDS2000X+ and latest SDS6000A models. We have much to thank LeCroy for.

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 08:45:08 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 14, 2021, 07:49:35 amSo what would be the current Siglent equivalent to the Wavesurfer 3024??

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 10:17:11 am
content: Hard to say....Why ? Will follow...First and to the OP, we got a WS3024 since 01/20218 at work and using it daily until it will be exchanged for the WS3024Z.In general, it´s awfully slow, touchscreen´s response is slow - You got the feeling, that the MAUI UI is too heavy for the used hardware.Looks very nice (the UI), no question and it got some features I miss on my siglent sds2k+ (yoo-hoo siglent, wink, wink...) like 4 matchchannels at the same time, a way better (optically)designed decoder part including search function and some things more, nice as said.But it makes the machine slow..Plus at least 2 bugs which are officially confirmed but not solved until today.One is the missing of the helplines when you want to define the measuring gate, the other is when you are on longer timebases and push the "find triggerlevel" button, the scope will totally freeze.Both are not to find on the WS3000Z models for what reason ever plus the "Z" marks that the hardware is more powerful.You can see it on the buyable options, there is a power analyzer option which is only for the "Z" models avaible.Also the touchscreen response should be better - We will know it relatively soon, when we get the WS3024Z in the begining of 2022.Nevertheless:When you can get it for say under 1000 bucks and get it to work, congrats..It´s slow, it got some bugs, but it´s a nice scope for people which are patient one in general.The look and the features of the UI are slightly better as on siglent scopes, I hope sometimes the decoding features will be also on the siglent touchscreen models.It got 4 math channels and the building look in general is slightly better.In direct comparison, I would prefer my sds2k+ what WS3024 without "Z" concerns.Martin

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 03:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: dazz1 on November 14, 2021, 08:45:08 amClosest match would be SDS5034X, also 10" touch but capacitive display, active probe support but 25x the mem depth.3000 series are 4 GSa/s and first touch display and multiplexed vertical controls from Siglent and from an age when mem depth support was not seen as valuable for DSO's as it is today.Unless you needed the higher sampling rate and active probe support today's SDS2104X+ would run rings around it as Martin says.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 09:49:04 pm
content: Question is, when do you need more samples...Talking about a ws3024 alternative, it got 200Mhz bandwith so the max. 2Gsa/s of the sds2k+ should be "enough".Active probe support is a point....Meanwhile I decided to order some sds2k+ for our testfield.For our needs in the testfield it would be enough, the missing probus interface hurts a little bit as we only got lecroy current probes.OK, and some teks..But when I´m calculating we need 3 scopes next year and it "must" be 3 lecroys because of the probus current probes, perhaps ws3024z, it would cost about 12000...15000€ total.When I choose 3 sds2k+ and add a siglent current probe of 500A, it would cost about 9000€ total.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 09:58:10 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2021, 09:49:04 pmSDS2104X+ 100 MHz DSO has ~185 MHz -3dB point.LeCroy active probe adapter for SDS5000X and SDS6000A models:https://siglentna.com/product/lpa10/

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 10:21:39 pm
content: I have an LPA10 on order, but am not sure when I'll receive it. When I do I'll see how well it works with my assortment of LeCroy probes.I really only ever need longer acquisitions when looking at MCU mixed-signals, but never found the 10Mpts/ch on the WS3054 limiting. More that it was a little slow decoding, panning, and tabulating them. (It could also search the record for anomalies, like RD# or WR# asserted without CS#, or a runt or glitch on these. Haven't tested this on the SDS5000X to see if it has anything comparable to WaveScan or if I just have to trigger on it. It's not a huge deal in the scheme of things, you just have to reproduce failures over and over instead of performing analysis on a single capture of a failure. In this sort of needle-in-haystack stuff a longer record can additionally be very useful.) If you don't do mixed-signal or digital circuitry, then I'm not sure why you'd need deep captures. (Which should not be read to imply I don't think anyone does, only that like you I don't know why.)Just looking at MSRPs, the WS3024z comes in at about $1k more than the SDS5034X. I know for sure which I'd prefer, but of course money is for real and it would come down to the discounts available. BTW, the SDS5000X here in NA seems to currently ship with all options permanently unlocked, except for SENT and manchester. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. Maybe it's the same in the EU/APAC.

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 10:24:04 pm
content: HiMy problem is that I have a positively ancient Phillip 50MHz PM3217 which I have modded, recapped and restored. It does about 90% of what I need to do. The biggest deficiency is the lack of storage.So do I need to buy a broken old Lecroy scope with a snail speed GUI and a fault that may not be fixable?Or do I buy a modern Siglent that has more features than I need?Or do I just stick with the old analog PM3217 that I have already owned for over 20 years, and could be expected to be serviceable for another 20years?It is the difference between wants and needs. I want to own a Lecroy, , but I don't need all the features. If I spent $$ on an unfixable scope, SWMBO would never let me forget it.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 10:44:42 pm
content: Maybe I can help you...When you are satisfied to 90% with an analog scope, when you don´t need new features like decoding, huge memory or masktests, when you don´t need a quick save on usb-stick....And finally when you want to own a lecroy...Then have a look at used old waverunner scopes.Working lecroy waverunner LT scopes you find on ebay like sand on the beach, under 1000 bucks.

author: dazz1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2021, 12:56:46 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 14, 2021, 10:44:42 pmHiUnfortunately e-bay is not a practical option. In New Zealand, e-bay was annihilated years ago by the local on-line auction site. The only Lecroy gear I have seen in person here is top end stuff purchased by Government departments. I look with envy at the test equipment listed on the USA e-bay but the cost of shipping rules that out. For me, e-bay is the option of last resort.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2021, 08:02:19 am
content: In the end it went for 970 NZ Pesoshttps://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/business-farming-industry/industrial/electrical-equipment/gauges-meters/listing/3343830089?archive=1&bof=nEa2tPKDBit much for a boot frozen DSO unless you had access to LeCroy recovery SW and if not gawd knows how much they'd charge to recover it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2021, 06:14:55 am
content: The purchaser managed to recover it thanks to the help of another member that had the LeCroy recovery package.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/lecroy-wavesurfer-3024-fail-to-boot/

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 09:29:08 pm
content: Hi,Today was the first time I´ve used the fft function of this scope:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-3034-has-anyone-got-the-fft-to-do-anything/msg3866384/#msg3866384I was surprised how simple the fft menu is, no table, no markers, nothing....No exclusive display mode like the siglent sds 2k+ got and..........It´s so painful slowly working...Like anything else on the ws3000...awful performance.Comparing to my private sds2k+, the siglent "wins" in every aspect.So I´m curious about the ws3000z we will get in january in exchange.To be honest, I was playing with the thought to buy a ws3000z when it got a way better performance than the non-z model.Why ?I would like to have 4 math-channels, the siglent sds2k+ and the sds5k doesn´t got, only 2.But second surprise today, the ws 3000 have also only 2 mathchannels..When we got the ws3000z I could tell about it´s performance here, when it´s interesting for others.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 08:35:43 pm
content: QuoteIt should arrive in the first february week - But surprise, it arrived today.."Z".....A little suffix makes a huge difference...Could check it only for a short time, but there are worlds between ws3024 and 3024z what the performance concerns.First of all, the boot time.62sec for the ws3024, 32sec for the 3024z...Display is more "clear" and brighter, the touchpanel is much, much more responsive.Systemperformance is much faster, the response of the UI is unlikely better - All this reminds me of my sds2k+.Now it´s a really good scope with superb building quality and some nice features.For example the calibration section, it allows you to choose between two calibrations and there is a system status which tells you, if it´s ready for it...(maybe it´s on the non-z too, I don´t remark it before).Nice, really nice.Unfortunately and as I told before, it got only 2 math-channels.If it weren´t so, I would come into trouble.After holidays I check the fft function and decoding - Both are slowing down the system on the non-z model massive.But I´m quit sure, it wouldn´t be so on the z-model.Martin

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 08:44:27 pm
content: AFAIK WS3000Z/SDS3000X use the much faster Xilinx processor used in all the later Siglent's. IIRC WS3kX models were released ~ the same time as SDS5000X.Some Siglent's have a Quick Cal that runs almost seamlessly in the background and you can disable it if required.