Control Systems Engineers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: aep9690
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 03:26:31 am
content: I'm just curious if there are any other control systems engineers out there. I'm about to graduate in December with my Masters in Electrical Engineering specializing in Control System and I got curious.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 07:56:04 am
content: Yes there is, at least one.Been a while since i actually got paid to do control systems design but i do maintain my IEEE society subscriptions still.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 08:37:43 am
content: What do a control engineer?

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 10:27:51 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 13, 2013, 08:37:43 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_engineering

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 03:43:08 pm
content: Yeeeees i know "this" answer.I would like to know the answer from a system engineer.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 06:05:55 pm
content: Hmm, what can i say that wikipedia did not say already? At least i find wikipedia's text matching my training and job description precisely.If you wanted to know on a personal level, then i have mostly been involved in designing and applying analog and digital control systems for paper production machines and medium to heavy steel industry (continuous casting, steel and color metal rollers, suchlike) as well as various FMS centers. In the early 80's i worked at Stromberg - now part of ABB - in the team designing and implementing an embedded processor based drive control system for a Valmet double fourdrinier paper machine - the first such one in the world. A personal achievement was a solo design and implementation of a processor based controller for a flying roll splice system for a Wartsila newsprint coater. The coordination of torque exchange and the various mechanical actions was improved over the earlier analog system such that web breaks went down from 1/100 to 1/1000 making the system very popular among clients.But maybe this was not what you really asked?

author: gocemk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 06:28:56 pm
content: 3 more exams (somewhere in September 2013), and i will earn my B.Sc degree in Electrical Engineering - Control Systems and Automation.So, another one here.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 08:26:48 pm
content: 13 year Controls Engineer here.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 09:03:17 pm
content: Quote from: Kremmen on May 13, 2013, 06:05:55 pmNo no no it's interestingIn a few year i will be in university, so i'd like to know other opportunity (over EE)

author: ee851
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2013, 09:56:32 pm
content: Yes, I am also an American control systems engineer.

author: aep9690
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 01:17:32 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 13, 2013, 03:43:08 pmThere are a lot of things control systems engineers do. One area is automation which involves making things move from different states to other dates faster and more accurately. They also deal with modeling aircraft, marine vehicles, orbital mechanics, and other kinds of vehicle dynamics. They also make things move from different states in optimal trajectories like spacecraft launches and robot arms. Not to mention modern control engineers are dealing with machine learning algorithms and artificial intelligence.I've had professors that worked on the James Webb telescope, the F22 raptor control system, and humanoid robotics. Control systems are really everywhere.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 02:35:29 am
content: Quote from: aep9690 on May 14, 2013, 01:17:32 amIndeed. Control systems are also found everywhere in the chemical process industries, where some characteristics may be large scale multi-input, multi-output systems, extreme non-linearity, and a wide range of time constants from milliseconds to hours or even days.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 05:01:19 am
content: Quote from: aep9690 on May 14, 2013, 01:17:32 amLook like work where you MUST work for someone else.Am i right?

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 05:57:31 am
content: Quote from: aep9690 on May 14, 2013, 01:17:32 amQuote from: ddavidebor on May 14, 2013, 05:01:19 amYou can be self employed but i guess that does limit the jobs you are likely to get / be able to do. I did some robotics design work and i can say that the nature of the job is such that one individual can spend his/her entire career solving challenges without ever getting a product out the door. Same with things like space and aviation systems. The magnitude of the task makes it a team effort by necessity. So one way or the other you will be working for a company, whether your own or someone else's. Of course there is the possibility of working as a specialist contractor, but you won't start as one, you will graduate to that status.But then again, the world is full of gadgets with a clever idea or piece of software inside and which are "easily" doable by one man. Off the cuff, take e.g. solar and wind power controllers. Implementing a good, working MPPT controller is less than trivial. On forums like this at times people announce their intentions to build one, but extremely seldom it amounts to anything. That is because you actually do need to know at least the basics of control theory, and you need to be able to handle the math to implement the control algorithms. And that is just one trivial example of things you can do on your own. But that will be a rocky road because not only do you need to be a good systems engineer, you need to be a marketer as well and that is a combination seldom seen in one person.

author: aep9690
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 06:08:54 pm
content: Its a profession where you will work on much more interesting things if you work with other people.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 09:57:42 pm
content: Can you suggest me some good book about control system algorithm (something a bit practical and hands-on)?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 10:36:10 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 14, 2013, 09:57:42 pmUnfortunately text books tend to be a bit expensive unless you can find a student edition or a second hand copy.This one looks like a good introduction:http://www.amazon.com/Process-Control-Cambridge-Chemical-Engineering/dp/0521002559It has practical exercises with MATLAB that you could try out (look for a student edition of that, or investigate free MATLAB alternatives like GNU Octave).Don't be put off by the title referring to chemical engineering (my favorite branch of engineering) since the fundamentals of control are all the same at the introductory level.(Also, I note you are 17 at present. A university textbook like this could easily get out of your depth, so beware, and don't be dismayed if you find it hard going.)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 10:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 14, 2013, 09:57:42 pmI need to come back with another reply, so I don't scare you.Introductory control courses like the book referenced above are usually introduced in about the third year of a university engineering course. The study of control systems design depends on a lot of fundamental engineering concepts and mathematics that are introduced in the first two years. Much of what is in that book you will find very advanced and difficult.I'm not quite sure of a simple and practical introductory text, but if I come across one I'll post it.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2013, 11:02:57 pm
content: Anything by Karl Astrom. Just be ready for a seriously dense book. I'd say they are extremely practical but only if you have already been doing control systems for years and you like theory. Oh and you better like math

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 05:20:30 am
content: I hate teory, but i love algorithm that i can use in sw.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 06:18:50 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 14, 2013, 09:57:42 pmQuote from: ddavidebor on May 15, 2013, 05:20:30 amWell, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Control theory _is_ math, you won't get around that fact. Maybe that is one reason why there are not so many control e's around...Also, practical control systems are much, much more than just "an algorithm" so only studying clever algorithms won't get you very far.EDIT: I only now noted that your age is 17. While there is nothing wrong in that - we were all 17 once - you are unlikely to have studied the math needed to cover all of the subjects yet. So maybe this one is for later if you decide to continue on this track...Regarding books, if there is any possibility then get this (it is expensive as hell, but it will get you very, very far):William S. Levine (ed):The Control Handbook(3 parts) CRC PressControl System FundamentalsISBN 978-1-4200-7363-8http://www.amazon.com/The-Control-Handbook-Second-Edition/dp/1420073621/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2Control System ApplicationsISBN 978-1-4200-7360-7http://www.amazon.com/The-Control-Handbook-Second-Edition/dp/1420073605/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_4Control System Advanced MethodsISBN 978-1-4200-7364-5http://www.amazon.com/Control-Systems-Handbook-Second-Edition/dp/1420073648/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3This set of books will contain all the algorithms you are likely to ever need.I inserted the contents list here (just because i can) so you can see the topics covered:Fundamentals:SECTION I Mathematical Foundations1 Ordinary Linear Differential and Difference Equations2 The Fourier, Laplace, and z-Transforms3 Matrices and Linear Algebra4 Complex VariablesSECTION II Models for Dynamical Systems5 Standard Mathematical Models6 Graphical ModelsSECTION III Analysis and Design Methods for Continuous-Time Systems7 Analysis Methods8 Stability Tests9 Design MethodsSECTION IV Digital Control10 Discrete-Time Systems11 Sampled-Data Systems12 Discrete-Time Equivalents of Continuous-Time Systems13 Design Methods for Discrete-Time, Linear Time-Invariant Systems14 Quantization Effects15 Sample-Rate Selection16 Real-Time Software for Implementation of Feedback Control17 Programmable ControllersSECTION V Analysis and Design Methods for Nonlinear Systems18 Analysis Methods19 Design MethodsApplications:SECTION I Automotive1 Linear Parameter-Varying Control of Nonlinear Systems with Applications to Automotive and Aerospace Controls2 Powertrain Control3 Vehicle Controls4 Model-Based Supervisory Control for Energy Optimization of Hybrid-Electric Vehicles5 Purge Scheduling for Dead-Ended Anode Operation of PEM Fuel CellsSECTION II Aerospace6 Aerospace Real-Time Control System and Software7 Stochastic Decision Making and Aerial Surveillance Control Strategies8 Control Allocation9 Swarm StabilitySECTION III Industrial10 Control of Machine Tools and Machining Processes11 Process Control in Semiconductor Manufacturing12 Control of Polymerization Processes13 Multiscale Modeling and Control of Porous Thin Film Growth14 Control of Particulate Processes15 Nonlinear Model Predictive Control for Batch Processes16 The Use of Multivariate Statistics in Process Control17 Plantwide Control18 Automation and Control Solutions for Flat Strip Metal ProcessingSECTION IV Biological and Medical19 Model-Based Control of Biochemical Reactors20 Robotic Surgery21 Stochastic Gene Expression: Modeling, Analysis, and Identification22 Modeling the Human Body as a Dynamical System: ApplicationsSECTION V Electronics23 Control of Brushless DC Motors24 Hybrid Model Predictive Control of the Boost ConverterSECTION VI Networks25 The SNR Approach to Networked Control26 Optimization and Control of Communication NetworksSECTION VII Special Applications27 Advanced Motion Control Design28 Color Controls: An Advanced Feedback System29 The Construction of Portfolios of Financial Assets: An Application of Optimal Stochastic Control30 Earthquake Response Control for Civil Structures31 Quantum Estimation and Control32 Motion Control of Marine Craft33 Control of Unstable Oscillations in Flows34 Modeling and Control of Air Conditioning and Refrigeration SystemAdvanced Methods:SECTION I Analysis Methods for MIMO Linear Systems1 Numerical and Computational Issues in Linear Control and System Theory2 Multivariable Poles, Zeros, and Pole-Zero Cancellations3 Fundamentals of Linear Time-Varying Systems4 Balanced Realizations, Model Order Reduction, and the Hankel Operator5 Geometric Theory of Linear Systems6 Polynomial and Matrix Fraction Descriptions7 Robustness Analysis with Real Parametric Uncertainty8 MIMO Frequency Response Analysis and the Singular Value Decomposition9 Stability Robustness to Unstructured Uncertainty for Linear Time Invariant Systems10 Trade-Offs and Limitations in Feedback Systems11 Modeling Deterministic UncertaintySECTION II Kalman Filter and Observers12 Linear Systems and White Noise13 Kalman Filtering14 Riccati Equations and Their Solution15 ObserversSECTION III Design Methods for MIMO LTI Systems16 Eigenstructure Assignmen17 Linear Quadratic Regulator Control18 H2 (LQG) and H? Control19 1 Robust Control: Theory, Computation, and Design20 The Structured Singular Value (?) Framework21 Algebraic Design Methods22 Quantitative Feedback Theory (QFT) Technique23 Robust Servomechanism Problem24 Linear Matrix Inequalities in Contro25 Optimal Contro26 Decentralized Control27 Decoupling28 Linear Model Predictive Control in the Process IndustriesSECTION IV Analysis and Design of Hybrid Systems29 Computation of Reach Sets for Dynamical Systems30 Hybrid Dynamical Systems: Stability and Stabilization31 Optimal Control of Switching Systems via Embedding into Continuous Optimal Control ProblemSECTION V Adaptive Control32 Automatic Tuning of PID Controllers33 Self-Tuning Contro34 Model Reference Adaptive Control35 Robust Adaptive Control36 Iterative Learning ControlSECTION VI Analysis and Design of Nonlinear Systems37 Nonlinear Zero Dynamics38 The Lie Bracket and Control39 Two Timescale and Averaging Methods40 Volterra and Fliess Series Expansions for Nonlinear Systems41 Integral Quadratic Constraints42 Control of Nonholonomic and Underactuated SystemsSECTION VII Stability43 Lyapunov Stability44 Input–Output Stability45 Input-to-State StabilitySECTION VIII Design46 Feedback Linearization of Nonlinear Systems47 The Steady-State Behavior of a Nonlinear System48 Nonlinear Output Regulation49 Lyapunov Design50 Variable Structure, Sliding-Mode Controller Design51 Control of Bifurcations and Chaos52 Open-Loop Control Using Oscillatory Inputs53 Adaptive Nonlinear Control54 Intelligent Control55 Fuzzy Control56 Neural ControlSECTION IX System Identification57 System IdentificationSECTION X Stochastic Control58 Discrete Time Markov Processes59 Stochastic Differential Equations60 Linear Stochastic Input–Output Models61 Dynamic Programming62 Approximate Dynamic Programming63 Stability of Stochastic Systems64 Stochastic Adaptive Control for Continuous-Time Linear Systems65 Probabilistic and Randomized Tools for Control Design66 Stabilization of Stochastic Nonlinear Continuous-Time SystemsSECTION XI Control of Distributed Parameter Systems67 Control of Systems Governed by Partial Differential Equations68 Controllability of Thin Elastic Beams and Plates69 Control of the Heat Equation70 Observability of Linear Distributed-Parameter Systems71 Boundary Control of PDEs: The Backstepping Approach72 Stabilization of Fluid FlowsSECTION XII Networks and Networked Controls73 Control over Digital Networks74 Decentralized Control and Algebraic Approaches75 Estimation and Control across Analog Erasure Channels76 Passivity Approach to Network Stability Analysis and Distributed Control Synthesis

author: RjSa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 06:52:28 am
content: Another Control Systems Engineer hereCheck out this book that i think is excellent because it has digital controller implementations based on microcontrollers.https://www.google.com/url?q=http://uc-njavan.ir/MaXUpload/89/0470863358.pdf&sa=U&ei=2zKTUeysEo2Q8wTrtoG4Dw&ved=0CAkQFjAB&sig2=HvIcrbVqAXk0IarHQdofEQ&usg=AFQjCNElRB61g1ZAhG9Lk5GoT3R9VXewJQ

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 01:03:45 pm
content: Thank you, it's all very interesting

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 03:59:31 pm
content: The name already scare me

author: RjSa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2013, 04:49:16 pm
content: There is a case study on page 269 which has both theory and software algorithms. Also, the author implements it and shows schematics, response graphs and the code itself.

author: ee851
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2013, 06:08:59 pm
content: I tend to agree with the poster who suggested you need two years of university-level math study to even begin to grasp the concepts used in controls engineering. However, you might be able to teach yourself the math using khanacademy.org before becoming a university student. You'll just need someone to point you in the right direction. Start with functions and with differential and integral calculi (two different subjects). This presumes you have already studied the math subjects prerequisite to calculus. If not, do that first.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 02:10:18 am
content: is a control loop something like the collar that you put on your girlfriend/boyfriend?

author: aep9690
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2013, 04:02:54 am
content: The math involved with control systems get really complicated really quickly. But the basics can be picked up quickly, as long as you have the mathematical knowledge.Its also true that its not an area that you can get by in without theory. In the end the control system you implement is actually completely based on theory.