New desktop PC required, what and where??!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 05:38:17 pm
content: As per the title, needed only for basic purposes, internet, image and other file storage, email and suchlike. No gaming of any kind.I would like it to be fast on page changes and file selection.I have no idea of the PC market or where the best places to buy are, UK based by the way. So, would appreciate advice and recommendations please.My only preferences are for Lenovo or HP, as these have been the most reliable in the past, and it must have onboard wi-fi and bluetooth.Thanks

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 06:02:32 pm
content: If you do only one thing, be sure toBuy something with an SSD.I tend to buy lease return office computers from the manufacturer's affiliated site (dellrefurbished.com in my case, but I suspect HP and others have something similar.) The price is not the absolute rock-bottom lowest, but you can be certain of what you're going to get and it's very easy to watch the inventory for a week or two and pick off a decent deal. If you need to convert a non-SSD machine to one with an SSD, that's easily doable but may take a small amount of Googling and computer savvy.For me, an i7 and 16GB of RAM is the sweet spot. i5 and 8GB is also perfectly fine.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 08:36:12 pm
content: Thanks. SSD? Really? I thought they had limited read write life and finite data storage life, well, more limited than HD's? I may be lucky but I've never had a problem with HD's.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 08:54:53 pm
content: I've had my HP envy (17") with SSD system drive for a year now and you will not believe the difference from HDs. It will change your life.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 09:32:06 pm
content: Ok, it seems that is the way to go.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 09:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on January 15, 2020, 08:36:12 pmssd usually have a warranty of 5 years, and hdd have a one year warranty. any idea why ?

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 09:51:58 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on January 15, 2020, 08:36:12 pmI just built a new system that has hard drives, SATA SSD, and M.2 SSD drives.Crystal Disk Mark Read/Write speeds in MBytes/second for each type:HD : 214 / 196SATA SSD : 562 / 532M.2 SSD : 3568 / 2520It's a new world out there.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 09:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on January 15, 2020, 09:43:45 pmMoving parts vs. no moving parts.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 09:56:34 pm
content: Intel NUC, tiny and energy efficient.Exact configuration depends on the operating system and other requirements.Either way, +1 for SSD.btw, my (old) Intel 80GB g2 SSD is still going strong after more than 18.900 hours and nearly 1 TB of writes.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 10:05:27 pm
content: > My only preferences are for Lenovo or HP, as these have been the most reliable in the past, and it must have onboard wi-fi and bluetooth.These companies are both hit and miss. Lenovo's quality goes up and down and HP support really sucks. Dell is just as hit and miss in my experience.I generally only recommend two pathways:(1) Buy a 2nd hand ex-commercial (office) SFF PC that has very recently been phased out. Eg an "HP elitedesk" or "Dell Optiplex". For around 250-350 AUD (130-190 pounds? not sure of your local market) you can get something with:A 120GB ssdConvenient-sized (small) SFF caseCopy of Windows included4-8GB RAMA few scratchesReasonably new processor (within a few years old).The last point is important: make sure to look up the processor model number on the web and find its date of release. General rule: 2017- recommended, 2012- usable. The older options will look cheaper but they often end up more expensive if you factor in a few years of increased electricity usage (assuming you leave your computer idling; may not be relevant to you at all).If you are lucky you might find one that comes with wifi, but really wifi cards are only 10-20 AUDnew, so don't waste money on having it already being there. Commodity item, you can buy any and it will fit.(2) Buy individual parts and assemble your own.You generally get better quality and longer lasting parts this way; as well as saving money compared to other pre-assembled "new" options from your local retailer.I used to be able to say you could build something of good value for around $300 AUD, but times have changed. It looks like $400-$500 AUD is a better starting budget now, sadly.There are a lot of websites that offer you guides or advice on how to assemble your own. It's not hard, all of the parts only fit in "correct" locations. General rules:Make sure your processor and motherboard match, ie same "socket"Make sure your RAM matches your motherboard (ie DDR3 vs DDR4; avoid any of the more complex types like ECC)Don't spend less than $50 AUD on your power supply. Get a properly branded unit (eg Corsair) with any form of 80PLUS ratingDon't spend money on a graphics card if you don't want one. Many/most entry-level CPUs have some form of graphics built-in ("integrated graphics"), this will be more than enough for you.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 10:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: The Soulman on January 15, 2020, 09:56:34 pmI generally recommend people avoid these unless they have a specific requirement for the form factor.They're cute and all, but in the long term it's harder to get replacement parts. A standard ATX (or even SFF to areasonabledegree) cased computer will accept almost any replacement parts both past and future. A NUC is more like a laptop: model-specific parts, higher repair costs, less routes for upgrade or re-use.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 10:23:10 pm
content: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F273870575473It may not be the cheapest, I have not checked- but it's a decent computer for an alright price.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 10:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: mc172 on January 15, 2020, 10:23:10 pmI'll double that.Be wary that "Intel 3rd Gen" means 2012-2013 era processor. Perfectly capable (Moore's law slowed down dramatically around 2011-ish) and cheap too, I'm on a processor from this era.Edit: spring for the 8GB of RAM if you want to be a bit more future-proof, 15 pounds for an extra 4GB is neither the cheapest nor the most expensive. Otherwise: you can always buy more and install it at a later date.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 10:53:00 pm
content: Didn't realise SSD's had developed so far, so that will be on my spec list now!Energy consumption is a factor, my PC is generally on 12 hours a day, so the CPU tip is significant. I have built PC's in the past but had written it off as being uneconomic in the prevailing market, maybe now it's worth consideration. Although, getting upto speed on MB's, CPU's, PSU's. cases etc, etc is maybe too daunting! Also, what is the situation with getting hold of win10 for a self build?I would never have considered Dell as a contender after all the neg comments I've heard about them over recent years, as I mentioned, my experience with Lenovo and HP has been excellent for the last 10 years or so.Thanks so far guys.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 11:23:06 pm
content: Aye, SSDs are well worth it. Windows is an IO pig, esp regarding Windows update background services, so having one is a massive quality of life increase. Jokes about "solving software problems by buying hardware" aside the only good reason to buy HDDs today is if you need to bulk storage (better TB/$). Both SSDs and HDDs have their own unique longevity issues.QuoteThe most daunting bit is working out what CPU to buy. After that everything is easy.CPU: depends entirely on your budget, everything else will follow on from this choice. Have a look at a catalogue for some local electronics retailers and compare scores on some review sites (eg userbenchmark.com) to get approximate comparisons. AMD's Ryzen series is generally a good option at the moment, Intel is running with its tail between its legs.Motherboard: get whatever is cheapest that has the same socket as your CPU.Case: get whatever is cheapest. If it looks like a standard case then it is a standard case (ie ATX spec), anything barreally big and expensiveparts will fit. There's also slim (eg SFF) cases, these are skinnier but cost more anyway so just ignore them. EDIT: or do what I do, use 2nd hand cases thrown out by other people. The standards have not changed in 20+ years, just the colour scheme and fan-size mounts.PSU: cheapest that has a legit 80PLUS rating of any kind. Preferably branded with a long-lived name (eg Corsair) and not something like "Firestarter Xtreme" or "Gigglepower".QuoteIt's worth doing some calcs. Eg if we assume that electricity is $0.20 per kWh (check your bills), then saving 10W of idle power means:0.010kW * 12h * 365 days * 0.20 $/kWh =~ $9That's not much; but your electricity could be more expensive and the idle power savings could be much bigger. Eg:0.020kW * 12h * 365 days * 0.50 $/kWh =~ $44At this point it's worth considering spending more money on a more modern CPU, especially if you expect it to last more than a year.QuoteAll the vendors get negative comments. They're all shite in their own unique, special ways.Lenovo has had scandals regarding the Superfish malware they loaded onto their devices and just generally providing lower quality laptops than they used to. My Dell laptop has several annoying quirks (including phantom stuck keys & faulty battery on arrival). HP elitedesk 8200s have UEFI bugs that hang the system when shutting down (or was it rebooting?) some Linux OSs; and generally their consumer-tier products are not the best.Business-desk oriented SFF computers aregenerallysafer because they fill a very large and generic market hole where they can't afford to be shite; it's too easy for customers to change vendor on the next round of desktop replacements.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2020, 11:46:44 pm
content: From your listed requirements you could get virtually any PC left on the roadside. But I would suggest leaving cash left over for the best monitor your heart desires. or twoIf you buy a pre-packaged box then get at least 8GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. And i3 CPU or AMD equivalent will suffice.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 12:23:40 am
content: For modest use cases I really like buying used/ex-lease business grade workstations, they can be incredible value if you're a savvy shopper.Workstations tend to come in full sized cases where you can stuff more hard drives, and their power supplies can usually power one high end graphics card no problem if you ever have the need. And if you ever need a bit more processing power the server socket CPUs can be had cheap.I am particularly fond of the old Dell T3600, I picked up a few for AUD240/USD165 each. Specs: E5-1620 (quad core), 32GB RAM, 256GB SSD, some cheapo workstation graphics card and most importantly they could be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro on the OEM license without issue. In Australia a retail Home key is already ~AUD175 (a lot of people just buy the dodgy $5 keys on eBay for DIY builds).They do chug something like 70W on idle though which is high but not that unreasonable compared to DIY (40W-80W). It's only the small form factor PCs from the OEMs that get really efficient. Of course if you wanted to save the most power then a laptop has no problem operating down to 3W-10W in normal use.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 12:33:17 am
content: Rather than buy a box I've built them for years and the last couple have been I3 3+GHz CPUs with 8G of RAM.Select a mobo with half reasonable onboard graphics and multiple video outputs and you're good to go for the majority of basic tasks.I run the OS and resource hungry exe's on a 120GB SSD and all data onto a 1TB spinning drive.You just can't beat the boot times if the OS is on a SSD or similar.....10-15s for W10.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 12:36:49 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 15, 2020, 11:46:44 pmWoah, 1TB SSD. That's more than 50% of the whole computer linked aboveOpinion: 120GB is fine for Windows and casual usage. Only buy more if you need bulk storage (eg storing videos, more than thousands of photos or large modern videogames).

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 01:38:58 am
content: If it is a pre-packaged box one way to cheap-out the build is to put small capacity SSDs in them. If a cheapskate like me can spring for a 1TB SSD then I think it is a fair recommendation for everyone. I think since the OP said it was for image and file storage a 1TB SSD should be the minimum.In 2020 there is no need to buy 120GB and 240GB SSDs unless cost is a priority.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 01:58:10 am
content: Quote from: tautech on January 16, 2020, 12:33:17 amAgree with this completely. The last few basic machines I've built have been similar. If the OP is considering building something, they may want to play around a bit onhttps://pcpartpicker.com/and come up with a budget to determine what best meets their needs. As a habitual bargain hunter I'll say that the only times I've managed to get really good deals on computers for cheaper than I could build myself has been buying used from auction, but those deals aren't that common.@unkownparticle do you already have a desktop that could possibly be upgraded to meet your requirements?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 10:48:57 am
content: I've been running with 120/240GB SSD for boot and 1TB HDD data drive, but the HDD is 5 years old now. Looking on Newegg for a replacement, a 1TB SSD is now cheaper than what I paid for the HDD in 2015.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 11:32:10 am
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on January 15, 2020, 08:36:12 pmYep, absolutely go SSD. Even decent quality ones are very affordable.I would say for average use, an SSD will easily outlast an eletro-mechanical hard disk drive. I'm still using my 10+ year old Intel SSD and it's perfectly fine.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 05:44:20 pm
content: I'm going to be perverse and say don't get a SSD. Yes, they are brilliant, but what you want at the start is something 'good enough'. A spinning HD is perfectly OK and because this is a new thing for you, you won't notice any lack of disk speed. Then, a year down the line, get a SSD and you've cheaply made your PC (which you are not used to) a speed demon. The added bonus is that the original HD can now extend you collection of backup media. Or, more likely, start the collection.OTOH, if you go straight to SSD there's no simple way of improving it so you'll be on a continuous down-slope of "God, this is /so/ slow". And you will need another drive for backup anyway because an SSD failing won't give you any warning. With most HDs, if you don't get a warning that they are failing (slows down, disk errors, nasty noises) there's a good chance you can retrieve some data with a bit of effort. With SSDs, one second they are fine and the next they are worthless and unreadable refined sand.Finally, SSDswilldie. There are no two ways around it: if you write to it is is a write closer to death and the question is only what exact number of writes will do for it. With HDs, they fail in any number of strange ways, but there is nothing that is actually killing it off whenever you access it. Against that, SSDs can read forever and survive power-on drops that a spinner would suffer a coronary just thinking about. They make perfect sense for backup, unfortunately

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 06:17:06 pm
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on January 16, 2020, 01:58:10 amI do, I posted this back in December :-Being a PC user with only a basic working knowledge, if that, I need help with where to go nextMy most pressing issue is with my daily driver hack PC, which is, a 2007 HP Pavillion Slimline, model S3110UK. Basic spec is Pentium dual core 2140 1.6Ghz, 1 gig ram, DDR2 SDRAM, OS is Win Vista Home Premium.This PC has done and still does everything I need a PC to do, BUT, it has a major issue, inflicted by my impatience some years ago. One day, these many years ago, during a normal switch on to begin the days tasks, the thing was just taking forever to boot up. The HD light was just solid, unblinking for minutes and minutes, without going to the login screen. After about 10, maybe 15 minutes I just triggered and turned it off, then on again. BIG mistake! Then a load of error messages just spewed onto the screen and I was in trouble. So I tried system recovery from the boot screen and eventually, after maybe 3 hours, I got the thing to the login screen and windows loaded. But, there were so many error messages, it was like a blizzard! I just cancelled them all and carried on. Ever since there are lots of things not working, the major one being email, it can't open windows mail. It also slows down massively during the day so I have to shut down and restart.I haven't been able to update windows since then either. Nothing happens when I try.So, the question is, will it run Win 10, if so, how do I install that to transfer all files, even, hopefully, to recover my emails pre disaster? People have said to me, just take an image of the vista system and transfer to the ne OS? What does that even mean?!Or, is it worth going through this on such an old PC, would it be better to go to a new model?Respondents at that time advised me not to bother with the above and just go with a more recent PC?

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 06:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on January 16, 2020, 05:44:20 pmThis is exactly what I've heard and why I was reluctant to go with SSD. Explaining Computers on youtube went through this on his channel a while back.I have 1 x 1TB stand alone HD, and 1 x 1TB portable HD that I now store all my files to, basically leaving the PC's HD for it's own use. So that in the event that my PC's HD or system goes TU I can just plug the drives into a new PC and continue as normal, mostly!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 06:39:37 pm
content: What is it with SSD's that scare so many ?Pair it with a spinning drive and let the HD do all the daily data work for your programs and OS bits but place the OS on the SSD for the performance gains they offer.Modern OS's know how to properly manage SSD's and after ~10 years of using them we have never had one fail.For a reasonably fast and modern system ditch any thoughts of using anything dual core and an I3 ~3G or more will give massive improvements in boot times.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 06:56:03 pm
content: The logic of the argument is obvious, electro mechanical V solid state, but if an SSD does fail, and the data isn't backed up, it's SC time! Whereas, data recovery on a HD is at least possible.I guess it's just a case of backup discipline.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 07:22:50 pm
content: My PC currently has 5 SSDs in it.A 240GB Corsair Neutron GTX SSD for the C driveA 480GB Sandisk Plus SSD3 500GB Samsung Evo SSDsNever had a problem with them.I also have a 2TB HDD in it (that's currently empty) and a 4TB hdd external that I use to back up any important stuff from the SSD'sOver the years, I have had a few HDD's go bad on me, so far I haven't had an SSD go bad. First SSD I bought in 2011, still works fine (in one of my (now adult) kids laptops I think), only removed it from my PC 13 months ago as I wanted larger capacity SSD's in it.I have always bought well reviewed SSD's from well known brands rather than the cheaper unknown brand stuff. Whether there's any difference I cant tell you.My wife has an oldish Sony laptop that ran like a snail. I changed the HDD to SSD and it was like a new PC, whizzing along.I've always built my own, but my favourite parts supplier is Scan computers, not sure how well their pre built stuff compares to the competition price wise though, but the staff I've spoken to have always been very knowledgeable and when I've had problems (use PC for music, and had a latency problem with my DAW and other music software), they bent over backwards to help me find and fix the problem.

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 09:19:37 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on January 16, 2020, 06:56:03 pmI don't understand that "logic".The probability that a SSD will fail is 100%, the same as a HD. The amount of grief that a failure causes is proportional to the time since your last backup.I started with computers over 50 years ago. MTBF for disk drives back then was on the order of a few days. I've been diligent about backups ever since. These days my automated backups are only run every night. The nightly backups are rarely needed due to disk failures but are most often used because of my mistakes in deleting or overwriting something that I later realize I needed.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 11:36:19 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on January 16, 2020, 05:44:20 pmGet the SSD in ASAP and take backups. If you are relying on nasty noises as an early warning you're living too close to the edge.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 11:42:47 pm
content: I think people get hung up on SSD failure rates without actually looking at reality. Everything will fail at some point, whether it be your SSD, electro-mechanical hard drive, power supply etc... Nothing lasts forever.With electro-mechanical hard disks drives, there are many more things that go wrong. Temperature differentials can prematurely damage platters, heads which don't park properly (last week I had a drive where part of head #3 was bent upwards), stuck motors, etc...Yes, SSDs have their own failure mode, being flash only has a limited number of program/erase cycles. However this is a known and well understood limitation so most manufacturers compensate for that by incorporating spare flash into their drives, wear leveling and so on.Let us look at the Samsung MZ-76E500BW 500 GB SSD. It's a run-of-the-mill and reasonably cheap consumer SSD. Samsung guarantees this drive up to 300 TB written. If you wrote 10 Gigabytes per day, every day to that drive, it would take you over 84 years to reach that 300 TB warranty limit. I'm sure by then you will have upgraded ;-)Once you have the OS installed, few users actually do a lot of writing to SSDs. You generally boot the machine up and just use it. Sure there are lots of small incremental writes, but they don't add up to much at all.If you're doing a lot of intensive writes to your disk, then no, I wouldn't be buying an SSD for that purpose. But in just about every regular consumer environment (and even many commercial and government environments), this isn't going to be a problem. In fact, I would put SSDs into the category of beingmoreresilient than traditional hard disk drives, so much so, I will be upgrading my NAS with SSDs once the prices for higher capacity drives come down a bit more.Secondly, computers don't just "slow down" with age or use. Well, they do, but it has nothing to do with the hardware and more to do with Windows being so bloated that a regular format/reinstall is a part of life.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 11:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 16, 2020, 11:42:47 pmAnd the ever increasing complexity of the software - a website as simple as this would take an extraordinary amount of time to render on my old K6-2, but it doesn't really do very much for it!

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 02:07:36 am
content: Quote from: deadlylover on January 16, 2020, 12:23:40 amYep, I've bought ex-leased business, they good value for what you get compared to new or building your own.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 08:37:14 am
content: QuoteThat isn't what I was saying or meant. Please don't screw my words around like that.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 08:47:59 am
content: Edit: Forget it. I can see this one disappearing down that 'must score a point' rabbit hole.

author: LeonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 10:45:07 am
content: For a mixed office/home setup I'd go for something with:* A Ryzen CPU ("G" suffix means integrated graphics that are more than enough for everyday usage and light gaming)* Dual channel RAM (2x8GB for longevity)* An SSD (at least 250GB)I think you'll find reasonable models from any manufacturer with those.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 02:03:53 pm
content: Well, what I've read here about SSD's combined with a few hours of light research on youtube etc, I'm convinced by the SSD optionThe self build route was very tempting for a while but time is a significant factor for me, the actual physical build may be quickly done but it's trawling around for the parts and then there is the windows licence issue. So I'll check out the options suggested above for ex-lease business PC's and other suggestions. It'll be sad to see the HP retired, but at 12 years it is getting on a bit, even though it's been 100% trouble free, excluding my self inflicted issue!Thanks so far guys.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 04:05:47 pm
content: I don't know what you're using now, but for just a basic computer look at the NUC form factor devices. I know NUC was already mentioned, but most of those are expensive. I think Intel has one or two low cost models though. I have a couple of the cheapest Gigabyte Brix in use and they've been working fine. They're easy to build and use very little power. If you can get by with just one internal drive, one of those may be all you need.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 09:22:30 pm
content: Whilst my office PC is a self build (it's a bit of a beast), I often use a local company to get PCs built for others who want to upgrade etc. Not the cheapest, but they are a few mins down the road and if anything goes wrong I can just drop the box off with them to sort out. No additional junk on their builds either, just exactly what you ask for.They have been going decades, and do know their stuff. Their website is pretty basic, but most people just drop into the showroom and speak to someone. If you're close to Cambridge I'd can let you have their details.I'd see if you have any local established places nearby.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 03:39:26 pm
content: You need to find yourself a 12 year old nephew, mate. He'll steer you right, guaranteed.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 05:10:47 pm
content: I buy used business machines myself, currently on a Dell Latitude E7250. I don't worry about what drive they come with because I'll replace/upgrade in a couple years anyway. So get whatever, SSD or spinning rusted dinobots, whatever.When you get it, wipe the drive and install whatever OS, drivers, apps you sue yourself so you know you have everything you need to do it if necessary, don't wait until your in the middle of a deadline and something borks and you have to spend time figuring out how to get a peice of hardware working.My laptop came with a 120G SSD and I just swapped in a 1T. My owncloud server currently has two SSD's, a 120G for /boot and a 1T for /root and a 2T spinning disk for /home and the 2T is the only one I bought the rest were from previous upgrades (current laptop used mSATA where previous laptop used 2.5"SATA so the 1T 2.5" SATA wouldn't fit and the server needed space).