Rate my solder - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: renzoms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 03:47:34 am
content: First soldering

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 03:58:14 am
content: PoorThe resolution is too low for certainty, but what can be seen shows all the signs of excessive and inconsistent solder application with poor wetting and the possibility of dry joints.The objective is a smooth somewhat concave conical solder filet on each pin that forms a shallow angle at its edges with the surface of the pad and the pin, indicating it has properly wetted the pad and pin. Excess solder forming a convex filet conceals whether or not the solder has actually wetted the pin and pad so is to be avoided.Done right, hand soldering should be indistinguishable from high quality well controlled factory wave soldering.

author: renzoms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:03:14 am
content: IanM,Ah, idk what I can do about the resolution, hm. I thought I could use less solder, too. I did not use flux (wetting I assume) lol.

author: renzoms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:10:09 am
content: Made an LEDblink()

author: Teledog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:13:53 am
content: Try a flux pen ( I'd suggest rosin).Hot (small tip) iron & 60/40 flux solderWork FAST! (perhaps test/ try on old dead boards)I'm sure I'll get flamed...G'Luck!

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:32:15 am
content: Quote from: renzoms on December 17, 2021, 04:03:14 amWe don't need to see your hand or nondescript background (although thanks for using a clean white surface rather than an out of focus random bench full of crap). To make the best use of the available resolution, use a macro lens (or macro mode if it has one that can focuss close enough), with *just* the board in the shot, oriented to fill as much of the frame as possible (90% of whichever side is the limiting one), well lit with diffuse lighting from all sides, carefully focused, with the camera on a copying stand (or tripod with inverted head) and triggered remotely to eliminate motion blur. Don't hand hold the part. Do NOT use digital zoom as most cameras loose resolution when zooming in digitally.Quote from: renzoms on December 17, 2021, 04:03:14 amTo fix the existing soldering, suck or wick off the solder from joints with grossly excessive solder, and reflow the joints with a good electronics grade flux using a freshly cleaned bit for each joint, only adding solder if the fillet is insufficient. That should produce notable improvement. The dwell time on any joint should not exceed a couple of seconds.Old and low quality pin headers may fail to wet easily due to oxidization of the metal surface. If you find that's the case, *STOP* and either (preferably) replace the pin header with one that takes solder properly, or if you cant replace it, suck or wick off the failed joints, clean the offending pins where they are to be soldered with a glassfibre abrasive brush or grey scotchbrite pad and try again with plenty of extra flux.Have a look at:https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20General%20Requirements.htmlwhich provides examples of what good and bad through hole joints look like.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:38:31 am
content: Hopefully you came here for real feedback and not validation. While I agree with Ian, I'd also note that some of my first attempts were likely worse than what you've done. The fact that it does work for you now says nothing to the longer term reliability. There are plenty of good examples of what good joints should look like. Try to emulate those and then practice for a consistent end result. Be wary of some videos in the youtube repair world. Some are decent enough and many are great resources for fault finding techniques, but not the best at soldering work. Many get away with it because they're merely extending the life of something that will likely develop another fault before their work does and the short replacement cycle of electronic consumer goods. You might benefit from the video I linked below.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:40:46 am
content: If you can get a better pic, you might do better to ask which joint is best

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:49:39 am
content: Yes, you need some skills and practice.Here is someone with the skills you need and a great bunch of youtube videos.Takes good techniques, proper tools and temperatures, and practice.Can't go wrong with John Gammel.

author: gcewing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 06:07:09 am
content: I'll add that a good solder joint is shiny. If it looks dull or pasty, it means either you didn't get it hot enough or the parts moved while the solder was cooling. (The latter isn't usually a problem when soldering on a header, but if you're attaching a wire to something it's easy to get impatient and move it before the solder has solidified properly!)Regarding the photography, you could also do with more light.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 06:29:49 am
content: Got to start somewhere, you're on the right track just need better wetting. You can tell when you have the right amount of heat and flux as the surface of the joint is smooth.A6 is your best joint from what I can see in the image. Don't use more than that amount of solder.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 06:46:14 am
content: Quote from: gcewing on December 17, 2021, 06:07:09 amFYI, most lead-free alloys cool with a dull surface, so this criterion has to be modified according to the solder type used.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 07:38:21 am
content: Most of them are good enough if not beautiful, but RXD pin demonstrates the problem: the solder is only in the pin, not on the PCB, so there is no connection. #1 reason for this is that the PCB pad is cold and only the pin is hot.Solution is to make sure the iron tip directly touches the PCB so that the PCB trace heats up as well. Only after you have established good contact to both PCB track and the pin with the hot tip, keeping that for 1-2 seconds, only then start applying solder wire.

author: Steffalompen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 01:58:39 pm
content: Let me get ahead while you are pliable and say that in electronics nothing is so laden with wankery and boyish rivalry as soldering.It is really easy as long as you recognize "hot enough, clean enough and flux enough" when you see them, and when you don't. (as well as too hot, when a trace lifts)Most of us don't hand solder new pcbs for sale anymore (I did until recently, both smd and th), so the visuals and longevity of too much solder isn't really a concern.DiodeGoneWild, one of the top 4 electronic engineers on youtube, has a pragmatic and humorous view on soldering which aligns with my own.He begins at 4:40 in this video:(can't figure out how to share a timestamped video on my phone)https://youtu.be/ehpwfCUTa3M

author: EAvMx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 02:16:59 pm
content: Quote from: Steffalompen on December 17, 2021, 01:58:39 pmwho are the other top 4 electronic engineers on youtube?

author: Steffalompen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 02:42:22 pm
content: EAvMx, oh I was afraid someone would make me rank them.Perhaps we need a new thread for it. Remember that "on youtube" also takes their teaching ability into account.W2AEW is in first place.Then in no particular order is DiodeGoneWild, EEVblog, Mr. Carlson's Lab.Oh wait I forgot Afrotechmod and Ben Eater. But they are more on the code and logic side.PS. Forgot Electroboom as well. Beneath the clownery he is very knowledgeable.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 12:39:38 am
content: In terms of qualifications, employment and applied knowledge Shahriar (The Signal Path) is probably top of the heap on youtube. It's hard to aggregate a list as it depends on the viewers experience and if they find the presentation style and content interesting. Mr Carlson's Lab and Great Scott are probably the two most successful electronics youtubers. Dave isn't doing too badly but he would probably love to have Mr Carlson's patreons and Great Scotts subscriber count.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 03:53:05 am
content: Quote from: Steffalompen on December 17, 2021, 01:58:39 pmA good point, one needn't go full aerospace standards and practices to get good results. Hot, fast andfluxcovers most of my tricks. That and use the biggest tip you practically can, more mass=more better.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 09:12:48 am
content: Hot, fast, flux, and specifically, getting both workpieces hot, meaning iron tip connection to both workpieces, and in case where one of the workpieces has much larger thermal mass and/or surface area, it will need additional heat source. Multilayer PCB with internal ground planes is such example, pre-heating the board helps massively, even if "just" to 100 degC.But for simple 2-sided boards with no internal layers, soldering is pretty easy, just need to touch both the pad and the component lead simultaneously, job done.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 10:03:18 am
content: Here's Dave's take on learning through hole soldering:EEVblog #183 - Soldering Tutorial Part 2Its part of a series that may also be of interest:EEVblog #180 - Soldering Tutorial Part 1 - ToolsEEVblog #186 – Soldering Tutorial Part 3 – Surface Mount

author: cemelec
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 10:48:47 am
content: After 50+ years of soldering my joints were OK, but nothing to be proud of. Recently I bought a Hako FX-951 soldering station, and that's made a big difference, almost professional joints.A big factor is precise temperature control right near the soldering tip, and the availability of high power (70W if I recall correctly) when needed. It handles anything from SMD to big chunky terminals, very thick wire, etc.Its expensive but I wish I'd bought one years ago (before they even existed!)Its worth looking into

author: rpiloverbd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 12:35:06 pm
content: Congratulations. Far better than mine.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 01:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: rpiloverbd on December 18, 2021, 12:35:06 pmI wish I could say practice makes perfect but it's more a case of watching videos on youtube, it's the easiest way of understanding the fundamentals.

author: renzoms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 03:57:08 pm
content: Felt like I was painting solder (on) some of these joints

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 07:25:55 pm
content: That looks better, but the solder still isn't wetting out like it should on some joints. It should just kind of magically jump around the ring (or other masked off pad shape) every time. Probably not enough heat or time heating or not enough/aggressive enough flux.What do you have for an iron and solder?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 07:52:25 pm
content: Please check the header pins with a magnet to see if they are steel! I've encountered cheap and nasty Chinese 0.1" pitch square pin headers made of plated steel, that really don't take solder well.Otherwise, please answer BrokenYugo's question: "What do you have for an iron and solder?" and also show us a good closeup photo of your soldering iron bit, with the working surface visible, so we can (hopefully) eliminate problems with your supplies and tools.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 07:56:05 pm
content: Looks like you didn't apply enough heat.With some extra flux you can re-heat the pins and the solder should wick right through.D9 and D10 look terrible. I only get joints like these if i try soldering corroded pins.But judging by the shiny residue around the solder blobs it does look like you should have enough flux to make an ok joint.For a first time it's ok

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 08:41:58 pm
content: As far as the shape of the joints, the PCB does look like a typical Chinese PCB with unnecessary small pads (i.e. much too small pad-to-hole ratio), which tends to cause the shape seen here.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 09:52:25 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 18, 2021, 08:41:58 pmI agree, i've soldered pins on these arduinos and the main problem with these PCB's are the tiny pads.But not because they can't take solder, rather they're so small that touching them with the soldering iron tip and heating them properly is more difficult.And judging by OP's cold joints i think that he got the pin hot but not the pad so as he piled solder on the pin a blob formed and once that blob touched down on the pad it kinda stuck.The plated holes on these boards can take quite a bit of solder but if you don't heat the pad along with the plating in the hole the solder doesn't flow in and just sits on top.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2021, 11:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 18, 2021, 07:52:25 pmAs long as they have some copper/brass plating on them they solder fine with good supplies and technique. By sheer chance I've just soldered a set of exactly those kind of plated steel 0.1" pin headers to a SOIC-16 adapter board with pretty much textbook results.Definitely steel:Nice smooth meniscus on top:And on the bottom (rather poor focus, but what the hell):And the meniscus seen from the side:The pins wetted well, you can see the reflection of the camera lens in them:Used: "Multicore" flux pen, "Multicore" 0.7mm 60/40 (362 flux core), Metcal SP-200 with a 637A 1.78mm bit.

author: LateLesley
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 01:30:44 am
content: For a beginner - 8/10.You do have some joints not soldered properly, like the RXD and D7 pins for example. What's happened there, is you heated the pin, but not the pad on the board. You have to make sure when soldering, that the tip heats the pin AND the Pad, then flow solder into the joint. Takes practice, but you will get the hang of it.Also, it may be an idea to pick up some no-clean flux, sometimes when soldering or desoldering, flux can be your friend, helping the solder flow properly, and keeping the joint from oxidizing. It can be cleaned off after with some IPA 99.9% and a soft toothbrush.Oh and remember to clean the soldering iron tip before and after soldering. You can do several joints at a time, but try and keep the iron clean after doing a few.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 01:50:03 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on December 18, 2021, 11:17:30 pmThey are better described as fillets (joints). A meniscus is mostly referred to as the formation of wet solder.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 02:59:22 am
content: Quote from: Shock on December 19, 2021, 01:50:03 amAMeniscus Curveis the characteristic curve formed by a liquid wetting a surface. The shape is caused by capillary attraction (wetting) being balanced against surface tension and will be familiar to anyone who has ever had to learn to read a measuring cylinder properly. A fillet is generally used to refer to a machined semi-circular curve. So no, it's notbetterdescribed as a fillet as meniscus is the precise term for what is being described.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 07:24:48 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on December 19, 2021, 02:59:22 amGets the dremel out to solder.

author: renzoms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 08:22:16 pm
content: BrokenYugo, Yeah, wetting was what I was referring to when I said "painting". It was neat to see the solder slide around. Hakko FX-888D and lead free .8mm SnAg0.3u0.7 solder

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 08:56:04 pm
content: Quote from: renzoms on December 19, 2021, 08:22:16 pmWell there's your problemI've soldered with both and leaded solder works so much better than lead free solder.But lead free solder is not terrible either.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 04:54:11 pm
content: Found an old arduino nano that i soldered the pins on by hand and decided to post it here just as an example.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 09:37:32 pm
content: 888D is good, provided you understand how to set the temp (350*C is probably about right for unleaded) and appropriate tip is used. Personally I find the typical included conical to be equally bad at everything. I'd recommend getting an assortment of the cheap no name tips, and buy genuine Hakko for the shapes you find most useful (the real ones fit and perform a bit better).As to the solder, anything no name is a gamble, mystery alloys, bad/inconsistent flux, etc. Leaded alloys are generally nicer to work with, provided you aren't soldering on the kitchen table or something and aren't prone to licking your fingers. In any event it is something where the good stuff is recommended.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2021, 07:41:23 am
content: I’m also perplexed by conical tips. They seem to me to be advantageous exactly never. I prefer chisel, bevel, and hood (concave bevel), as well as PLCC blades.