GW-Instek MPO-2000 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 01:02:07 am
content: MPO-2000 Series Multi-function Programmable OscilloscopeMPO-2000P:200MHz; 4CH/2CHMPO-2000B:100MHz; 4CH/2CHAllow to use Python scripts to control for automation purposeDual Channel Spectrum analyzer with Spectrogramhttps://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/detail/MPO-2000

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 03:00:53 am
content: A $2200 8-bit scope is revolutionary in 2024? I'd guess it has some nice features, but that's some funny choices.https://www.saelig.com/mpo-2000/mpo-2204p.htm

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 03:35:19 am
content: Looks like they have built on the spectral analysis capabilities in their MDO-2xxxEX series! That instrument seemed to have very impressive spectrum functions (better than older FFT implementations), and I was tempted to purchase that when it was released, because it could do what most swept spectrum analyzers could not, at speed and very low frequencies, no 9kHz limit etc.I think for certain users, it could be attractive to have a 'scope with this level of Python capability, e.g. schools, where you could automatically upload measurements to be checked, or for testbed automation. I kind of wished Python was offered in more instruments for use for small bits of scripting.At one org I worked at, the devices they sold (not test instruments) had embedded a couple of programming languages built-in, and although most users never touched those, they were great problem-solvers occasionally. Sometimes customers would have feature requests, and some of those could be solved by creating a script (or as a stopgap until the feature was more formally introduced). A simple example was building in a menu so that users who remotely connected to the device would see a menu of options that made sense for them. Another example was checking the filesystem for error logs and automatically sending an e-mail.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 09:54:16 pm
content: Interesting. However it is a shame they choose to use such a small display and low resolution for a piece of equipment with these kind of abilities. Decoding USB-PD could be a handy feature for many though as USB-C is becoming a defacto standard to power all kinds of devices.I've taken a look through the manuals and the the Python scripting looks like a very powerful feature. Only the documentation for controlling the internal functions isn't complete yet. It also looks like some of the protocol decoding is implemented using Python so GW Instek is using the Python scripting by themselves as well.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 12:29:59 am
content: Display is disappointing : ( although having said that, despite being entry-level-ish, it's the same screen res as some midrange previous-gen 'scopes, but times have moved on!I hope it comes down a fair bit in price, it might make a nice beginner/second 'scope. I've never used a GW Instek scope, it seems they try to provide slightly different toolsets than normal, for problem-solving.Sometimes I wonder if it could be better to have an 8-bit 'scope with decent SA capabilities, than a 12-bit with normal FFT. Both together would be icing on cake.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 01:05:09 am
content: Well, most GW Instek scopes have no fine vertical scale setting and no Trigger Output. The MPO-2000 is this case.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 01:21:36 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on March 24, 2024, 12:29:59 amWell, the biggest advantage is that after allowing a newly introduced instrument a year to mature, the equipment from GW Instek just works as advertised and IF you find a bug, they will fix it in weeks.I have a GDS-2104E for over 8 years already and still use it as a second scope regulary without a wish to upgrade it. Frankly I wouldn't know what to buy as a replacement and get the same set of features. It works well where it comes to filtering and protocol decoding and it is easy to operate. Maybe a scope from MicSig.Don't expect any price drops though. GW Instek never did that as they don't seem to compete on price much.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 01:55:52 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2024, 01:21:36 amThey seem to be a company that is proud to be one of the most expensive. For example, the $20K LCR meter I want from them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 01:59:01 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 24, 2024, 01:55:52 amIt is the price you pay for proper engineering. You can find GW Instek equipment in certification & calibration labs for example.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 02:01:15 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 24, 2024, 01:59:01 amOf course, but with a very healthy profit margin. Hey, better believe if I win the lottery I'll buy a couple of those LCRs. 😉

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 04:13:05 am
content: It does look good.Now I think about it, the Tek MDO3000 has identical screen res, and manages to pack enough information on it.This is the third Instek 'scope with an attractive feature-mix that I've wanted to try out. Also had my eye on a GW Instek handheld 'scope that was on eBay for ages, but the seller had super-high price and refused sensible offers (at the buy-it-now price one may as well spend a tiny bit more and get the new instrument).

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 10:48:54 am
content: There are different kinds of markets and costumer needs. Expecting that all brands race towards the same goal like a pack of sardines in the ocean, is foolish.Some introduce the 12bit into low budget market. Awesome!As far as I know, GW introduced Python in scopes. Awesome!Who will, for instance, replace the Autoset button with an AI one, figuring out that a protocol is involved and start decoding, or set the best suited FFT parameters, figuring out the preferences of the user...?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 02:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mortymore on March 24, 2024, 10:48:54 amI don't know if there's some magical difference in programming ability (I'm not a Python guy), but even Siglent's low-end SDS800XHD model supports Python. Page 767 has an example:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDS800XHD_Series_ProgrammingGuide_EN11F.pdf

author: Mortymore
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 03:08:18 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 28, 2024, 02:49:02 pmThat is not "supporting Python". That is basic information on how to use Python to interface a PC with the Scope.On MPO-2000 Python in embedded in the scope and can be used even without a PC connected to it.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 09:40:38 am
content: There's a German term "eierlegende wollmilchsau", something like "egg-laying wool-milk-sow" that this device calls to mind: It's a scope! It's a DMM! It's an AWG! It's a spectrum analyzer! It's a power supply! It's a protocol analyser! It's a revolution for your kitchen! Smashed potatoes, sliced tomatoes! Apple juice, blueberry, raspberry, cherries and peaches in a fraction of a second! All sharing a single cramped screen, and at a price where you can probably buy decent-enough dedicated devices to do the job. It's impressive what they've managed to do, but apart from field service where you want to minimise the amount of equipment you need to haul around I can't really see what the market for it is.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:40:49 am
content: It is also interesting for the educational market. Having one device is easier to deal with compared to a whole bunch of devices which may get stolen / lost.But also for R&D use having a single device on your bench helps. If you run into a problem, you press a few buttons and have protocol decoding together with the signals in the analog domain. The same for FFT. Sometimes it helps to look at a signal in the frequency domain where a DSO can go near DC which most spectrum analysers can't do. I have a DSO on my bench with an internal AWG. If I need a signal, I use the AWG in the DSO first because that is always there. My signal generators are tucked away on shelves.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 11:36:32 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2024, 10:40:49 amAnd what are you saying is scope + spectrum view + AWG.Which is sometimes usefull.But they added a PSU and multimeter, which are separate connections...Those devices are weird combination on a scope.Analog Discovery had PSU, but that way useful because it was so small..I personally don't like multifunction devices. Too many compromises and if you have a malfunction, you have none of 5 devices...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 11:48:14 am
content: I don't see a high added value for a DMM and PSU either but the PSU might be handy to power a circuit. Sometimes I use a front panel USB socket on an instrument for that purpose. For an educational institute having an all-in-one is easier in case of malfunction. You only need one kind of spare unit instead of 5.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 04:19:49 pm
content: I rarely use a standalone dedicated AWG since the 'scope ones have become so useful. I ended up selling a Rigol AWG it had gone into disuse since the oscilloscope one did almost everything I needed on a day-to-day basis. I still have another AWG but hardly used.The spectrum analysis is essential in an oscilloscope to see detail that is easy to miss or hard to make sense of in the time-domain view. The newer GW Instek scopes like MPO and (slightly older MDO EX) are doing something different with their implementation to make it more usable/granular/responsive, there's some info here in theMDO 2xxx-EX brochurebut it only explains at a high-level.A normal standalone SA won't perform close to DC, so that functionality would likely be missing on a typical workbench if the 'scope didn't implement it.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 09:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on March 31, 2024, 04:19:49 pmI used to feel the same way, except that the standalone AWGs tend to have a lot more functions & power. I needed a counter, and my SDG2122X has that. Then I needed an AC voltage source, and it works great for that too. Even the DC offset can be used to some extent. There's a lot of bonus features I didn't think of before that really work great on standalone AWGs.

author: fredo_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 09:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2024, 09:19:52 pmThings like that ?:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xdg2000-arbitrary-waveform-generator/msg5420675/#msg5420675

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:27:51 pm
content: That SDG2122X alone exceeds half the price of the basic MPO model, I guess it's unrealistic to expect it to have identical functions/power.Plus, despite there being a dual-channel 14-bit AWG inside even the base MPO model, which could be used as an AC source, or DC source with adjustable offset (within it's limitations - 5Vp-p) but they've stuck a dual-channel PSU (up to 20V max) inside there too, although, annoyingly, ground-referenced and not two isolated outputs.The PSU is also SCPI controlled (and perhaps eventually Python controlled?) i.e. lots of opportunities in that instrument for generating control signals and voltages - certainly not near to SDG2122X level, it's certainly cut-down but their compromises sound pretty reasonable, they had to make a decision somewhere about the price-performance mix they were going to land on.I've used my scope's AWG to even generate LoRa signals; it was easy to go from Matlab into the 'scope, with very little code. Not as flexible as a standalone AWG (and usually the 'scopes are missing hardware trigger outputs that standalone AWGs will have) but half the volume on the desk until one needs the accoutrements.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:38:35 pm
content: Nice work with the FM modulation. That instrument looks to have more capability, and is lower-cost, than the DG1022Z that I used to own.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: shabaz on March 31, 2024, 10:27:51 pm1/4 the cost if you start as an SDG2042X. 😉

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 08:21:42 am
content: One thing to consider is how well the AWG and other functions are integrated into the user interface. If the internal AWG of a DSO is easy to access, then it will be much easier to use that instead of pulling out a standalone AWG. One of the things GW Instek got right on their is oscilloscope is using a vertical AND horizontal row of buttons next to the screen. This makes navigating through menus so much easier compared to oscilloscopes which only have 1 row. And there are more clever buttons like a seperate select button and a button to bring up the operation modes. Combined this makes the GW Instek scopes really efficient to use.