Prema 5017 and 8017 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 01:36:41 pm
content: Someone is selling a few of these on a local classifieds site for around $300 and $400 respectively. Anyone know anything about them? They are 7.5-digit, 30,100,000 count meters. The 5017 looks like a normal meter with a 16*1 LCD, while the 8017 has a graphical display, scopemeter functionality, and is basically meter built around a small 386 PC.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 01:39:21 pm
content: The only real info I've found on them (including internals) is in German here:http://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/other/Prema-5017.htmlhttp://www.amplifier.cd/Test_Equipment/other/Prema-8017.html

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 02:21:12 pm
content: Thank you for the tip.There is also a Datron 1271 available, apparently for 50Fr, which is hopefully mine soon ;-)http://www.tutti.ch/zuerich/spielzeuge-basteln/basteln/angebote/selfcal-digital-multimeter-1271_14020253.htm

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 02:35:26 pm
content: Ridiculous price for a Datron 1271.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: MadTux on February 19, 2017, 02:21:12 pmYeah I saw that, too on a second look at his list. Have you contacted him already?(I don't have a use for such a meter, but if nobody takes it I might, and if you take it, maybe you can show it to me at least!)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 03:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on February 19, 2017, 02:35:26 pmYeah that guy has no idea what he's pricing all that gear at.

author: kutte
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 04:24:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 19, 2017, 01:36:41 pmsee the Prema site for manuals here:http://www.prema.com/index.php/de/service/messgeraetewartungThey also provide exellent service for old equipment too. Do not hesitate to ask Herr StrickerKutte

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 04:47:20 pm
content: Thanks, I found that page earlier!Do you have any experience with these meters themselves?

author: kutte
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 09:21:19 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 19, 2017, 04:47:20 pmbought a Prema 6001 end of 2015 and had it refurbished and calibrated/adjusted Febr 2016 at a very reasonable price from Prema. The specs are exellent, but I have no equipment to veryfy these. GUI is very userfriendly. The casing would withstand an accident from a truck :-)Occasionally I observed some software misfunction so I had to restart the meter. Major draw back is the input resistance of 10 Mohms for 20V and greater. A Prema 5017 for 300 € as advertized seems to be a bargain.Kutte

author: dxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 05:48:43 pm
content: I took both the 8017 - the 5017 where already taken. Can't wait until they arrive

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 08:01:36 pm
content: Quote from: dxl on February 21, 2017, 05:48:43 pmI'm with MadTux now having dinner after going to the seller, we ended up grabbing the Datron and one 5017, as well as a bunch of random stuff. The kid selling it had no freaking clue what this stuff was worth! (But he mentioned that someone claimed both 8017s!)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 09:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: dxl on February 21, 2017, 05:48:43 pmP.S. One 5017 remains, he'd probably give it to you since it reduces his workload to sell them all to one person. Also a Fluke 8842A, an analog scope in need of some TLC, and a Commodore 64 system.If I'd known you were taking the 8017s, we would have tested them for you. MadTux brought his voltage calibrator along, so we could have done a quick sanity check. (For what it's worth, both the 5017s were spot on for voltage, so I expect the 8017s to be perfect as well.)

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 01:04:06 am
content: Had a funny evening, some great hunting and probably scored the cheapest 8 1/2 digit DMM in historyTooki wanted a small general purpose DMM with good display, so I sold him one of my Keithley 2015 that I had brought with me. Thereby I had more cash to spend and grabbed a Prema 5017 along with the Datron that I originally planned to buy.The P5017 isn't exactly a general purpose meter like the K2015 (continuity tester really sucks), bought it more for curiosity and because you gotta catch em all ;-)Also ended up with a big box full of vintage/ancient components for 20Fr, a free component drawer box (Schubladenkästli) and some banana jacks/passive scope probes/BNC cables with cat piss on it.Tooki also found a DIY multi-output PSU for 15Fr. There is still lot's of good equipment available, like another Prema 5017, Weller WS81, a C64, some tools and lots of computer related books. Seller is also a nice guy who accepts offers (he needs to get rid of all the stuff)

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 01:28:34 am
content: Is that the Alpha Electronics logo I see on the orange packet. If so your score keeps getting better....

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 02:31:30 am
content: This haul will rank pretty highly in the list of best test equipment scores.It does make you wonder how he came to possess such equipment in the first place though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 02:34:34 am
content: Quote from: nidlaX on February 22, 2017, 02:31:30 amI think a family member who passed away, who'd been an electronics technician.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 04:59:41 am
content: I need some info about the Datron 1271 for the multimeter spreadsheet completeness:1. Bandwidth on ACA?2. Has the meter got probe jacks on the back of it?3. Has the meter got a 'measurement complete out pulse' function?4. Has the meter got any statistical functions? ie: Min Max Average, etc?5. Has the meter got any math functions? ie: mX+b, dB, dBm, pass/fail, etc?6. What is the acquiring speed at 4 1/2 resolution (samples/sec)?7. Has the meter got any plug-in card options?Many thanks to MadTux or others for the information.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 10:31:06 am
content: BTW, my Datron 1271 has options 010 => High speed tRMS, 020 => 2W/4W resistance and 030 => Amps up to 1A installed, which make the score even better1. Bandwidth on ACA? => specified up to 5kHz @ 0.1% accuracy2. Has the meter got probe jacks on the back of it? => no, only 6pin custom connector that replicates the front jacks.3. Has the meter got a 'measurement complete out pulse' function? => don't think so, only ext. trigger4. Has the meter got any statistical functions? ie: Min Max Average, etc? => everything found in Monitor and Math menu.5. Has the meter got any math functions? ie: mX+b, dB, dBm, pass/fail, etc? => everything found in Monitor and Math menu.6. What is the acquiring speed at 4 1/2 resolution (samples/sec)? No 4 1/2 digit mode, meter is too good for that, it does however read 1000Samples/s in 5 1/2 digit fast mode with accuracy of around 40ppm7. Has the meter got any plug-in card options? => Not really, only a channel B connector on the back, which isn't installed in mine.Quote from: Vgkid on February 22, 2017, 01:28:34 amYes, these are indeed Alpha Electronics bags full of 0.1% 2.5/5ppm precision resistors. The deceased guy must have been a former volt nut.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:16:44 am
content: MadTuxNice haul. We are awaiting for you in metrology section with your TEA.For a completeness, there istwo D1281 worklogwhich are very similar, same as 1271 platform meters.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:27:43 am
content: Found some more goodies, several baggies with somewhat around 20 LM399 deep down in the box. Waiting for the box with LTZ1000

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 11:59:10 am
content: Stop already, you don't need all that, right?Let me save you from hours and hours of testing those ancient rusty parts.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 12:02:59 pm
content: Want some resistors and a few LM399, TIN?Wait until I finished inventory and I'll list the precision parts. Then you can choose which ones you want, for shipping costs.

author: guido
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 06:17:42 pm
content: Seems Prema is not a household name as is Tek or HP etc. I have two 5000 meters (6.5 digits, LM399 based). Paid 20 and 15 euro'sThe 15 euro one at an outdoor ham-fest last year. It seems people understand 'scanner' printed on the front, but not the abbreviation 'dmm'.... I recognised the bright yellow colour and snapped it up as soon as it came out of the boot of the car.All are very nice meters, i'm also on the lookout of a better specced one.Indeed Prema is still very helpful and a calibration is not that expensive (for the 5000).There's an 8.5 digit Datron on the Singer site. But that's for an industry price.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:55:26 pm
content: Hello,sorry to be a nuissance: if one of the Premas still is for grabs, SWIMBO and I would gladly take it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:11:51 am
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on February 23, 2017, 10:55:26 pmI don't know if it is, but I sent you a PM with the seller's number (which was posted publicly in the ad, so I feel comfortable sharing it!).

author: giovannirat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 12:50:55 pm
content: I don't think it is still available , it should be mine..

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 11:55:43 am
content: Congrats, you ratJokes aside, really congratz. Just looked around my lab. I am out of space. Need to buy a new house before buying any more TMI.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 05:00:21 pm
content: Since I was curious and there aren't many pictures available on what's inside a Datron 1271, I decided to void the Fluke cal stickers from 2005 and take a quick peek inside.The 1271, like most good HP DMMs, is split into Inguard and CPU compartment. But in contrast to HP, they decided to split it crosswise, instead of lengthwise, so that the ADC board sits in front of the CPU board and takes about 2/3 of the space available on the top section.Front terminals are connected via flat-flex cable to the left front corner of the ADC board. All boards are dual layer PCBs, as far as I can tell. A nice feature are the retractable front terminals (for instrument protection during e.g. shipping) that can be extended by pressing the 'TERMINAL RELEASE' button on the back. Interestingly, the input switching JFETs use no PTFE/Teflon isolators commonly found in other, similar DMM, like HP-3456A. Instead, low leakage parts are guarded by PCB traces. Only 3x 3.3M resistors (probably 10M 1000VDc divider) are placed on Teflon isolators. Guess you have to keep the PCB especially clean in this one.LTZ1000 is inside the black epoxy box, on which I didn't dare to fiddle to get it removed. (any idea whether is is solid cast epoxy or a removable box?). A LM399 reference is placed next to it, along with some metal canned precision resistors.Like most medium to high end DMMs (except HP3456A and Keithley 196), this one also uses a lot of unobtanium, like that big DIP40 ceramic CLA3722 chip on the right side of the ADC board (ADC controller?). A few more custom DIP16 ceramic CLA3106 chips are also found on ADC board. As a nice feature, all chips are socketed. Datecodes are around 1988.CPU board uses a huge DIP64 68k (which kinda runs hot @16MHz, judging from the brown marks on the label) and a total of 5 EPROMs (which I have to backup some times). Cal data is most probably stored in battery buffered SRAM, hence the lithium battery on board (last replaced in Nov. 2008, according to Datron sticker on the back). The PLCC socket with metal clamp hosts a CLA3721, more unobtainium. A common TMS9914 is used as GPIB controller. All other parts are common 74-logic along with one PAL10L8. Like on ADC board, all chips are socketed.Bottom section consists Option boards on the front section inside inguard/below ADC board and 2 really big toroid transfromers below the CPU board on the back.Option boards are (left to right):Opt030: Current converter, AC/DC current from 100uA to 1A full scale in 5 decade steps;Opt020: 2W/4W Resistance from 10Ohm to 1GOhm full range in 9 decade steps; Several special modes available in config menu, such as High Ohms (10M to 1GOhm), low current measurement and TrueOhm (for in circuit measurement with diodes... in parallel with resistor)Opt010: High Speed true-RMS, AC voltage from 100mV to 1000V full scale in 5 decade steps.All option boards use several (custom?) CLA3106 chips along with one gold capped CLA5532 chip on tRMS board. As usual, all chips are socketed.I uploaded these and some more pics at TiN's Xdevs FTP in higher resolution

author: dxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 08:59:09 pm
content: Thanks MadTux, very interesting teardown pictures. But look at all the old DIP PCB design, and all the old parts! No wonder it was only CHF 50!My Prema 8017's were shipped today, so i hope they arrive next week.

author: branadic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 10:22:13 pm
content: Congrats to all new Prema owners. I have a Prema 5017 SC myself and another one at work. They are extremly robust. Prema still offers perfect support and as already mentioned Mr. Stricker at Prema is your guy.So, do you guys also have the scanner inside your units or are them 5017 only? I once had the chance to buy a 8017 but was worried about the integrated computer. What I love on that old units is, you don't need GPIB adapter as serial interface is also included.Thus, they work fine using GNU Octave / Matlab for data aquisition and measurement analyzing.branadic

author: dxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2017, 10:16:26 pm
content: Got my 8017's today. Did a quick test, and the UI is really nice. I was also surprised how fast autoranging works - especially on older DMMs that's slow sometimes.CMOS Battery was empty on one of the two, so ordered replacement batteries. Fortunately they didn't leak. Also replaced the internal 2.5" Harddisk (stunning 128MB in size) with a flash module. As last step i will replace the fans on both units.

author: branadic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 07:38:17 pm
content: What about your Prema DMMs? I'd love to see more data to compare to.-branadic-

author: genesilvernail
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 12:47:39 am
content: Curious on your swap out of the HD. what program did you use to copy to SSD

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 01:04:31 am
content: any cloning software could do the jobNorton ghost, Macrium reflect ... Terabyte software ....