Quality Warning for Erem E7SA Tweezers from Amazon - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: figurativelythedevil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 04:50:59 pm
content: Hey y'all! I work with small SMT components on the daily for work (down to 0402 generally), so I have a need and appreciation for high quality tweezers. As such, my job was gracious enough to provide me with a set of Weller Erem E7SA curved tweezers. I've used them basically every day since, and knew that I needed a pair for my homelab; they're seriously the best tweezers I ever used. My company bought them through Digikey, but I figured I'd have a look around and see if I could save myself some money, and indeed, I found the same set of tweezers listed on Amazon (shipped & sold by Amazon, not some shady 3rd party) for about $8 cheaper, plus free shipping with prime. Winner winner, right? Went ahead and ordered them, they show up, and I immediately feel something is off about them. The finish of the grips was different, and the tip didn't seem as small or as well machined as the pair I had at work. I didn't want to bring my work tweezers home to compare, so I decided to trust my hunch and I ordered another pair, this time from Digikey. They showed up a few days later and confirmed my suspicion! They were indeed significantly different side-by-side, with the Digikey pair matching the other I use for work. I decided to post an Amazon review to warn others. Since then, I sadly managed to mangle the tips of my work pair and had to order a replacement, this one again was consistent with the quality of the other two Digikey pairs. This leads me to believe that either Weller is binning their tweezers based on what distributor they're going to, their QC is all over the place and I just happened to get a bad pair, or the pair I received from Amazon isn't a genuine pair. I'm leaning toward the third option right now, as it doesn't even look like the two pairs came from the same stamped metal mold (which is how I assume these are made, unsure tbh). Amazon since decided to remove my review after verifying authenticity, but I'm not sure.Anyway, I thought y'all would be ones to appreciate the differences here, so be warned! Stick with trusted distributors!edit: Disregard the time stamps on the close-up photos, I haven't set the date & time for my microscope, this was just a few weeks ago.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2021, 09:30:08 pm
content: It is a different grind on the tip for sure.Although their spec sheet gives no actual tip size, all I can find is:Erem E7SA Specifications:Material: Stainless SteelMaterial Category: MetalOverall Length: 4.724inPoint Type: Very FineWeight in g 27.5I sent the photos to weller email, lets see what they say.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 05:36:39 pm
content: Here is the response:QuoteSo that tells me either its a fake, or maybe some very old production run. Not clear on the second part. Was there any date code on the plastic box?Either way, I think that would give justification to return it to Amazon.

author: figurativelythedevil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 08:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 01, 2021, 05:36:39 pmInteresting! Thanks for reaching out to them! I suppose it could be a fluke and I got some old old stock, I hadn't considered that possibility. Sadly there wasn't a date code on the packaging, just the plain square plastic tube with the barcode & description on it. I couldn't distinguish the packaging of the pair from Amazon from the ones from Digikey, so if it is indeed a fake, they at least got that one right. I don't think I'll be returning the Amazon pair as they're still useful, but I definitely won't be getting another set if something happens to them.

author: ygi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 10:12:19 pm
content: Don't expect Weller to publicly throw Amazon under the bus. They will probably settle the matter behind closed door and unfortunate buyers will never know because it's bad PR for both companies.

author: devorah
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2021, 05:32:34 pm
content: i think i just got the same pair but am unsure.i was checking the photo comparisons you posted (and thank you for those by the way) but still not sure with mine.my question i was wondering can you post a picture of the tweexers other side where it says EREM because mine says Weller and i have not seen any with that on the tweezers. which are the fake ones the top or the bottom (in that first picture?)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2021, 11:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: devorah on December 03, 2021, 05:32:34 pmIts in the photo overlay, amazon = lower quality = suspected fake

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2021, 02:34:23 pm
content: Quote from: figurativelythedevil on September 01, 2021, 08:13:34 pmWhy would you think “old stock” would be of lesser quality? Weller bought Erem, a long-established Swiss tool maker,because ofthe high quality products they make. If I expected there to be quality differences (which my own experience with both old and brand new Erem tools has not given any indication of), it’d be that Weller would havereducedthe quality. But again, I’ve seen no evidence of that.Since Amazon commingles its own stock with that of third party vendors, it’s entirely possible for Amazon’s own stock to become contaminated with fakes. It’s essentially impossible to know.I’m curious as to what Weller replies. I suspect, contrary to ygi’s assertion, that Weller would aggressively fight Amazon regarding fakes, as many companies have been forced to do. Their reputation is essential to their success, and I seriously doubt Amazon is a major seller of their tweezers. (Since they’re so high-end that consumers typically don’t buy them, and Amazon is not where commercial/industrial customers go to buy their tools.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2021, 11:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 05, 2021, 02:34:23 pmI posted their reply above.They do seem to carry various Weller soldering stations, likely directly shipped from weller, but Erem is probably separate.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2021, 12:56:06 pm
content: It could go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if the soldering stations are also indirectly acquired. Amazon's commitment to supply chain purity is about as strong as a piece of canned spaghetti.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2021, 03:51:20 pm
content: As we also act as a "vendor" to Amazon, I can tell you, that it is - as a vendor - no problem to sell fake products to Amazon, without the hassle of being a certified reseller oder need for proof of purchase.These will then become "sold and shipped by Amazon"-items.(We certainly wouldn't do that, but it's possible.)I'd suggest to directly contact them in Switzerland, they should know.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2021, 04:24:43 pm
content: Thanks for posting this. I for one appreciate information like this to help guide my future purchasing. I dont like the fact that they removed your Amazon review because somebody told them they were authentic - as if anybody would ever admit fakes. Sometimes, I don't mind the fakes knowing full well what I'm in for.. but knowing up front is quite helpful.I agree that even an old weller stock should be old but very high quality. Therefore, these are likely fake regardless what Amazon people tell you.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2021, 04:28:05 pm
content: Old stock would simply be labeled “Erem”. But I can assure you, because I use it on a nearly daily basis, that that old Erem stuff is extremely well made, certainly not worse than Weller-branded product. (And the Weller-branded Erem tools I’ve bought seem just as good.) So I agree with the suspicion that they’re fake.What surprises me about Amazon removing the review is that in the past, they erred on the side of caution. I once ordered a pair of Fluke test leads from Amazon, and got the real deal, but did contact them to say that the $5 sets from third parties had to be fakes (and some reviews said so). Without me asking, they refunded me the price of my (genuine) pair.I rarely order from Amazon any more, other than for books. Amazon’s wish to become a flea-riddled bazaar has worked out for them, but it’s made Amazon very uninteresting to me, since I don’t always want to spend hours trying to track down a genuine article among an ocean of no-name garbage.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 01:33:29 pm
content: Well, I have another data point for us: I just bought an EOODSA from Distrelec, a reputable reseller that certainly procures them from official sources. And the quality iscrap. I am absolutely shocked that they'd allow it out the door, never mind have the balls to charge almost $60 for them.Given that the equivalent ones at work are so old they're still Erem-branded (not Weller), and they look fantastic, this change in quality definitely took place after Weller acquired them. It also suggests Amazon did not sell counterfeits.I've reached out to Distrelec for assistance, but my hunch is that this means Erem tweezers as such no longer exist.The Weller-Erem branded diagonal cutters I have are fine (they're a year or two old), but who knows what their latest production runs look like.I'll add photos later.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2022, 06:43:10 pm
content: Fake.Amazon let you post a review spelling this out? The few times I've tried to point out fakes they've rejected my reviews, leading to the obvious conclusion that Amazon doesn't consider fakes a serious problem.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2022, 06:09:24 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 22, 2022, 01:33:29 pmWell that was supprise(not). The holding company APEX (previously Danaher) that owns Weller has sort of reputation for milking on old name brands and running their quality to ground.IIRC Erem was already producing some of the tweezers in Pakistan. Maybe they imported the QC department from Pakistan to Swiss...cheaper labor and all.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 06:43:50 pm
content: The economy line is made abroad, but the regular ones are still made in Switzerland. By baboons, apparently…

author: figurativelythedevil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2024, 03:08:38 am
content: Update: new job means a new set of E7SA tweezers! I'll take in my known good pair and the poor quality one from Amazon to work tomorrow and get some more photos and points for comparison. Also, fun fact: two pairs of Weller/Erem E7SA tweezers fitperfectlyin the box for a Starret 18A Automatic Center Punch.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2024, 03:46:59 am
content: Similar story; I recently ordered a tip for my Metcal PS-900 from Amazon. It was a few buck cheaper than from my usual supplier, so I just added it to an order. I was rather surprised to find Metcal parts on Amazon but...Go figure.Packaging was identical to usual Metcal, with the exception of a different sticker on the plastic case. Been using these for years and have never seen that sticker/label, regardless of supplier.Tip would not heat properly, and the soldering surface was very poor quality. Returned it as defective and likely a fake. Refunded without comment or difficulty.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2024, 09:57:13 pm
content: Quote from: Arts on February 09, 2024, 03:46:59 amPhoto? Never heard of or seen counterfeit metcal tips.Wasn't thermaltronics?

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2024, 03:46:04 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 09, 2024, 09:57:13 pmWhy would I take a photo of a soldering tip?I clearly stated that the tip was a Metcal product.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2024, 11:05:41 am
content: Quote from: Arts on February 10, 2024, 03:46:04 amNo, you literally described it as “likely a fake”.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2024, 04:47:12 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 10, 2024, 11:05:41 amYes. The product was branded as and packaged as a Metcal product. Try reading the post instead of being a dick.Do you ever make any posts where you are not argumentative? Looking for a confrontation? Can't open your mouth with a positive contribution?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2024, 11:08:33 am
content: Quote from: Arts on February 11, 2024, 04:47:12 amI did read it, which is why I responded.The item iseithergenuine Metcalorit’s a fake. It cannot be both at the same time. Your post said that packaging was “identical to” Metcal (not that itisgenuine Metcal) and then you expressly say that you returned it as “likely a fake”. The clear message from your post is “this thing was likely counterfeit”.Nothing I said to you is “being a dick”.It’s your fault, and yours alone, that you wrote a post that states the exact opposite of what you apparently think it says.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2024, 10:48:12 pm
content: Quote from: Arts on February 10, 2024, 03:46:04 amThis is an electronics forum, so.. we tend to be interested in electronics and related equipment.As I said, I've never seen counterfeit metcal tips and it would be interesting to see a photo of one if it existed. Though in this case its PS900 so it does not have the integrated heater, so slightly simpler design, it would make sense as a first attempt to counterfeit.I see this amazon review saying they got the wrong size tip:https://www.amazon.com/Metcal-SFV-CH25AR-Soldering-Application-Temperature/dp/B0062571WM/Then there is this unit that is slightly cheaper:https://www.amazon.com/Metcal-SFV-CH10AR-Soldering-Application-Temperature/dp/B007UOJMHQ/

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2024, 02:12:19 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 12, 2024, 10:48:12 pmIn 25+ years of using Metcal equipment , I haveneverreceived a defective or less than perfect product, which is what led me to believe that this might be a counterfeit. That, and being sold by amazon.A photo would have revealed nothing, as it was (visually, at least) identical to any other tip of that model/type, other than the soldering surface being a little poorly prepped, and it's inability to achieve operating temperature. Metallurgical analysis certainly would have told the story, but for the sake of a less than twenty buck tip....I have noted that this part, SFV-CNL04, is no longer available as "Shipped by Amazon" / "Sold by Amazon"; now only available from third party suppliers. Wonder why??That same week I had ordered five other PS-900 tips from Mouser, all of which were perfect. Lesson learned