Prema 8017 HDD backup - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 04:21:26 am
content: I didn't know where else to put this so here it is. I recently got a Prema 8017 multimeter. These use an 85Mb 2.5" 44pin drive. I tried some adapters which worked but required the motherboard to properly identify the drive for use. That doesn't happen with new PCs regardless of the OS(None of the 7 I tried anyway). So I used an old Pentium 2 333MHz PC with Win98. I was able to read all of the data and back it up but what I was unable to do was prepare a new HDD or CF drive. No matter what I tried it was unable to boot in the meter. I suspect this is because the Prema drive and bios use C/H/S instead of LBA for geometry and it essentially fails to access it properly. So does anybody know of Win98 drive cloning software OR a way to connect such an old drive to a modern PC? Or maybe some other ideas?I tried installing Dos 6.0 and 6.22 from floppies to a freshly prepared HDD and CF and copying the other data straight from the original HDD to D: and E:. All the drives were freshly formatted then partitioned by FDISK included with dos 6.0/6.22. I only replaced on the C: the autoexec.bat and config.sys along with adding the other DMM files. The drive boots(eventually) on the PC complete with boot menu but nothing ever happens on the meter.

author: CiscERsang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 07:24:39 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 17, 2019, 04:21:26 amHope, while cloning you have been using 'sector by sector' mode. Was it so?As variants:Acronis true image;Clonezilla;BR

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 08:48:50 am
content: Take a look athttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/prema-5017-and-8017/At least one person there did replace the hard disk, maybe they can give you a tip.

author: giovannirat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 08:49:43 am
content: I had nearly the same problems with my Prema 8017, where the harddisk was faulty.A EEvblog member provided me with an image of his Prema8017.What you need:- A PC with linux (in my case Ubuntu)- A 44Pin HD-Adapter with USB- An SDD (I used a Transcend 2G 44pin DOM with an additional adapter board) where capacity is >= than the existing diskYou can then copy your HD (connected to the adapter) to an image with "dd if=/dev/hda | gzip --best >hda-Image.gz" (probably you have to change /dev/hda...)After that connect the SDD to the adapter and restore with "gunzip -c hda-Image.gz | dd of=/dev/hda"Despite the fact that even Ubuntu could not recognize the original boot/OS partition (seems to be organized in a special way) it worked flawlessly several times for me.Feel free to ask if you have further questions..

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 09:05:38 am
content: Quote from: giovannirat on June 17, 2019, 08:49:43 amVery good info. Unfortunately we ran out of time to try a version of linux. None of the computers I have access to here allow me to do ANYTHING with the drive. 7 computers and only 1 of them was even able to identify the drive name and only under Windows 10. I have multiple adapters of that type and ubuntu 16.04LTS and 18.04LTS, I believe, didn't recognize anything. Have you created the image file before from the original drive? What sort of era PC did you use? I have an IDE controller card on the way which may have better compatibility. Luckily the hard disk isn't faulty yet, I'd hate to lose the cal constants already.

author: giovannirat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 09:40:23 am
content: OK, than the whole story...I bought my Prema8017 as faulty and not booting. Obviously the harddisk was defect, but I tried to recover at least the original cal constants. The hard disk at that time was not recognized by any PC/laptop I have had.I connected the disk to an old PC with IDE interface and started a live ubuntu... with several unix tools (gparted,... ) I was then able to restore at least the partitions with the GUI and programs (and cal constants).The OS and boot partition was still a mystery.As I said a very friendly EEVblog member provided me with an HD image of his Prema8017.I copied this image to a new HD (connected to the IDE-USB adapter ) as mentioned before (updated also the cal constants which I was able to restore ) and the Prema was working!Then I copied the working HD (connected to the IDE-USB adapter ) with the dd command to a Transcend SSD. And that was also working fine.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 10:08:22 am
content: You have disk on module (DOM) who works wonder in my case, we replaced normal ide disks with them, you need a 5v dc supplyUnless you have some obscure mbr sectors or hidden partitions ? or even a mix of fat / fat 32 partirion with an "nix hidden" one ?? We have this case on embedded windows Ce sd-card boot disk, took us a while to figure this out ...Normally with "good"usb to ide interface you should have success, unless the power consuption is greater than the usb port can supply, seen once too many ...For the Giovannirat thread response image, this is what we call a DOM drive, they exist is sata version too, i have a few of them for embedded boards, they slot directly on the mainboard connectorhttps://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/SATADOM.cfmhttps://www.memorydepot.com/ssd_diskonmodule.html@Magnovision, you did fdisk and format, but did you activate the partition ?? you have too, to make it seen by the computer in the old days

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 05:10:37 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on June 17, 2019, 10:08:22 amYea, the dos partition was made active. Once my new IDE controller comes in I'll try the DD method. The USB ata bridges I have are not what I'd call good quality. They work with my newer drives but 0 of my older ones, itsynot just the Prema.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 11:12:43 pm
content: My IDE controller card(startech.com pex2ide) came today and the Prema drive was recognized with no issue in Windows and Linux. Unfortunately none of the windows drive cloning software worked. dd did work though and now the meter is back up and running. At some point I'll have to move the drive image to cloud storage but for now it works and looks clean-ish. Thanks for the help!

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 01:16:42 am
content: I repeat loll I'm jealous lollQ: will you share an backup image just in case ? for the 8017 lovers

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 01:20:39 am
content: Haha, sure. In a few days when my new fan for it comes(it's not dead or loud but it is 24 years old) I'll share a link for the dd image.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 03:12:41 am
content: Since its a "12vdc i think" 2 wires fan, maybe you could drop it to a lower voltage ,,, less speed = less noise ? say a 8 to 10 vdc supply ?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 05:13:37 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on June 19, 2019, 03:12:41 amWell, the original fan is a papst 612L. 12.4CFM, 26dBa and .7W. I'm replacing with a papst 622L. Still 12V and 12.4CFM but 20dBa and .5W. it's actually higher speed at 3200RPM vs 3000RPM so the noise it makes might be more noticeable but more likely than not it won't be audible over the Rigol DP832. Has same 80,000 hours run time at 40C(I think) so probably last fan it'll get.

author: sorenkir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 04:26:32 pm
content: Hi,After reading this thread, I was hoping to the same, as my HDD is old and noisy (but functioning perfectly).Unfortunately I did not succeed in having the hard drive mounted by Linux (Ubuntu). I have tried two USB adapters with no luck, the system cannot read disk size and other information.I have found many read errors (?) in the kernel message log:Code:[ 2486.407940] scsi 6:0:0:0: Direct-Access TOSHIBA MK1722FCV 0041 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0[ 2486.408774] sd 6:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0[ 2486.410250] sd 6:0:0:0:  Very big device. Trying to use READ CAPACITY(16).[ 2486.411245] sd 6:0:0:0:  Using 0xffffffff as device size[ 2486.411256] sd 6:0:0:0:  4294967296 512-byte logical blocks: (2.20 TB/2.00 TiB)[ 2486.415848] sd 6:0:0:0:  Write Protect is off[ 2486.415854] sd 6:0:0:0:  Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00[ 2486.420533] sd 6:0:0:0:  No Caching mode page found[ 2486.420543] sd 6:0:0:0:  Assuming drive cache: write through[ 2486.421367] sd 6:0:0:0:  Very big device. Trying to use READ CAPACITY(16).[ 2486.422369] sd 6:0:0:0:  Using 0xffffffff as device size[ 2486.426871] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.426877] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.426880] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.426885] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.426889] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.426897] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.427986] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.427990] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.427994] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.427998] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.428028] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.428036] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.431252] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.431260] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.431266] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.431273] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.431277] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.431286] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.431313] ldm_validate_partition_table(): Disk read failed.[ 2486.433230] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.433234] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.433238] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.433241] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.433243] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.433248] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.434242] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.434248] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.434253] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.434259] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.434263] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.434269] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.435366] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.435372] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.435377] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.435383] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.435386] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.435392] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.436477] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.436481] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.436485] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.436488] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.436490] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.436495] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.436512] Dev sdb: unable to read RDB block 0[ 2486.437484] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.437488] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.437491] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.437494] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.437497] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.437500] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.438481] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.438484] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.438487] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.438491] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.438492] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0[ 2486.438496] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 0, async page read[ 2486.439482] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 FAILED Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[ 2486.439485] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Sense Key : Illegal Request [ 2486.439488] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 Add. Sense: Invalid field in cdb[ 2486.439491] sd 6:0:0:0:  tag#0 CDB: Read(16) 88 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 18 00 00 00 08 00 00[ 2486.439493] print_req_error: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 24[ 2486.439497] Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block 3, async page read[ 2486.441737] sdb: unable to read partition table[ 2486.442741] sd 6:0:0:0:  Very big device. Trying to use READ CAPACITY(16).[ 2486.443746] sd 6:0:0:0:  Using 0xffffffff as device size[ 2486.445758] sd 6:0:0:0:  Attached SCSI diskI have tried TestDisk Linux utility with no success: after entering correct disk geometry, every read sector seems to have an error.On windows 10, the disk is seen as unformatted.The USB adapter is OK: I have tried with another hard drive.For the moment, I have put everything back in place and I'm a bit discouragedMichel.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 12:18:53 am
content: Quote from: sorenkir on June 22, 2019, 04:26:32 pmI'd specifically recommend the pex2ide from startech.com(or from amazon). It worked for me with no problem even though none of the USB disk adapters worked(but they all worked with every other drive I have on hand). None of my modern motherboards worked either with serial/parallel adapters. With that disk controller though you can plug it straight into a pci-e slot it had the 40pin cable included but you will need your own power adapter/leads. Windows and Linux both read, wrote, and recognized the drive perfectly. The 2TB thing I also had happen under linux with an almost working USB adapter. The first partition is 12bit fat, the other 2 are 16bit fat. I got a quote from prema and they want 183.60 Euro for a replacement drive(130MB though, ooh la la) and you'd need to move your cal files over.EDIT: If you need the image I can try to get it up tonight. I wanted to do a couple of images of the same drive and verify they were all the same. If not I want to create one fixed image that is definitely 100%. I had one image clearly not perfect and caused crashing anytime I tried to use the sampling meter. The one I'm using now doesn't seem to have any issues but I still wanted to make sure.

author: sorenkir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 09:46:49 am
content: Hi,Thanks fo the info.When I receive the IDE40 to IDE44 adapter cable I have ordered, I will try to connect the HDD directly to the IDE port of my PC motherboard. If that does not work, I will have to buy this pex2ide card.If you have some time to post your HDD image, maybe it can be useful to me or others!Thanks,Michel.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2019, 04:08:49 am
content: As soon as I get out of the hospital I will post it. May even have my drive duplicator by then which has built in error checking and recovery.I suspect that if you have IDE on your mother board you should be up and running quickly.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 02:37:25 am
content: Here is a link to the drive image. It should be good to go using dd to write to a replacement drive.Onedrive:https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkskRQtlvkhViLFo-8-YpEdzSl1g8QGoogle Drive:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vgSoiwrEyvIIA3tVBqymdvJH9gt8YgXg

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 03:54:40 am
content: Hum could you recheck the linkit say something went wrong, tried with 3 different browsers ??thks

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 04:05:59 am
content: Updated, maybe the extra part it added was wrong. Still worked for me but I'm also logged in everwhere. Make sure you're just clicking and not trying to save as also. It's a onedrive link since I control it. I know some download services sever links after some time.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 11:18:38 am
content: Onedrive failed all attempsGoogle drive okthksIm using IMDISK to open images files and virtual drives, practicalYou have 3 FAT partitionsthe 1st one - 10mb is the dos (OS)the 2 - 30mb has 61 items, is it a copy of the third partition ?the 3 - 41.2 mb has 59 items, seems almost the same as the second partition ?What is the secret code they talk in : KAL_ENG.LNGRuns on Dos 6 or 6.1 ahhhhhh souvenirsNice to see some patch for the year 2000 bugwas the world supposed to endAnd anyone found the Prema Control Scpi version 1 software ??https://www.ohh.de/control.htm

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 06:05:15 pm
content: I figured onedrive may just be having its own problems so glad the google drive worked. The 2nd and 3rd partitions are very similar and I think they are a bit of a redundancy. The first partition is also 12bit FAT, not 16 like the other two. I had started to install the exact same german language version of DOS they used but after making the floppies I was out of time. Now that the HDD is copied I just don't need those disks either.The y2k bug fix was funny to see there and they never used it according to the file. I think I need to ask PREMA about that software. If nothing else I can figure out what commands they use. For some of them they're similar to 34401a commands but some of them don't seem to work at all. For instance, I couldn't get it to send back a measurement without also switching to the 1000VDC range.If nothing else maybe they have a programming manual. I still want to throw in a video card and see if anything comes out might not fit perfectly but just to see.

author: branadic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 06:20:31 pm
content: Have you tried the commands they used in 5017? I would expect they used the same.-branadic-

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 06:29:08 pm
content: You surely have those 2 german documents around 30mb eachhttps://www.prema.com/index.php/de/service/messgeraetewartung8017_Multifunktionsmeter_DE_Teil1.pdf8017_Multifunktionsmeter_DE_Teil2.pdftons of infos thereFor a video card, youll surely find an old isa 16 bit sitting duck on Evilbay or elsewhereI know they maxed out at 1 meg, if i recall, or maybe 2 megs loll

author: sorenkir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 07:28:32 pm
content: On the OS partition (lets call it C:) there is a CHK_HDSK.BAT file that gives some clues about almost identical partitions (D: & E:).Indeed, E: seems to be used as a backup allowing to format and then restore D:Michel.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 11:09:25 pm
content: Maybe there is an hidden recovery feature

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 12:59:48 am
content: Quote from: branadic on June 30, 2019, 06:20:31 pmI've been using the 5017 with RS232 and none of those commands work. The 8017 seems to look at GPIB and RS232 as being different ways to get the same data.Quote from: coromonadalix on June 30, 2019, 06:29:08 pmI had NOT seen those documents because I'd only looked at the English site.My German is pretty rusty, I can read some and speak almost none these days but I'll bet it doesn't take too long to refresh. The commands part will all be in English too so I can at least get started that way. I have some isa video cards, just need to take the time to try one. I am about 101% sure they won't fit with the case together so I'll have to have wait until I have space to leave it open to try a couple.Quote from: sorenkir on June 30, 2019, 07:28:32 pmYea, it looks like it creates the file poweron.flg (or whatever it was) and if it's there at startup it'll run chkdsk and/or copy other drive if there are issues. I haven't checked where it stores saved data though, I'm guessing "E:" since it's bigger? Were you able to get your drive cloned?

author: branadic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 05:48:22 am
content: QuoteHave you set the interface to RS232 in the 5017 menu? You need to select the proper interface and the correct setting and can't have both interfaces active the same time. Try hterm to ping the meter by sending *IDN?. If required I can send you the hterm setting file for it.-branadic-

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2019, 12:41:10 am
content: Quote from: branadic on July 01, 2019, 05:48:22 amWhat I said might have been confusing. The 5017 I use realterm and RS232 using the M, T, L, etc... Commands. Those don't work for the 8017 even though I wish they did. Everything seems to be in the German 8017 files so I will just have to learn those(the datrons use commands similar to 5017, so do my power supplies).

author: sorenkir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 08:22:47 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 01, 2019, 12:59:48 amHi,Yes! I did it!I have tried a few cloning methods: PartitionSaving, CloneZilla Live. None of them were able to restore the disk.Eventually I tried Ubuntu (Live 16.04 on a USB stick) and the 'dd' method worked, output file on another USB stick.sudo dd if=/dev/sda > image_premaThen, with the CF adapter and a 2GB CF card, on the IDE interface of my motherboard:sudo dd of=/dev/sdf < image_premaFinal result (very professional mounting):Thanks to all for you help!Michel.