HDMI/DP to V-by-One converter/scaler - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2020, 05:50:41 pm
content: Hello all!Maybe someone knows something about this problem:At work we currently use an RTD2660 based HDMI-LVDS-converter, custom design. These boards usually scale the input video signal to fit on a LCD panel's native resolution, for example 1920x1080.But in the near future LCD panels with LVDS will be outdated and obsolete, so we have to switch to UHD/4k and V-by-One.I was lucky to find some schematics and firmwares for RTD2660, but there's nothing available for other video processors that will do the job.Does anyone know what I can do to be able to make another custom board?Best option would be a reference design and pre-compiled firmware that just needs to be flashed. But I didn't even find manufactorers of these ICs that offer something like this.If you google for 4k HDMI LCD converter boards, you find a number of examples, (some use RTD ICs on), so the needed informations exist somewhere, but how can I acquire them?Thanks for any hint!Nik

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 04:14:36 am
content: You can consider going to eDP panels. I think the "proper" way to connect them to regular DisplayPort involves buffering the signals and translating the signal levels, but some hobbyists have managed to make it work with a direct connection.

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 05:54:30 pm
content: ah, the panels have V-by-One standard :/oh, maybe I should make it a bit more clear: I don't look for a hobbyist solutionI want/have to make a custom board that will be put in digital signage display solutions.I just don't know how to start or where to ask, for example: Realtek did not reply on my inquiry the last time I asked about the RTD2660 chip.Maybe someone here already has some experiences (how to start, how/where to inquiry, maybe a chip supplier like Realtek, etc)

author: sd
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 12:04:32 am
content: MStar is another company manufacturing HDMI/DP/eDP to V-By-One converter ICs. Maybe try searching for "AD board" instead of "4k HDMI LCD converter boards", that might give better results.Pretty hard to acquire the info needed to develop a functional board with these ICs (maybe because of HDCP?). If you just need a board that does the conversion without extra stuff, either try to find an existing board that suits your needs (search panelook, alibaba etc) or find an AD board manufacturer that can offer you a custom solution (I can PM you the contact info of such a manufacturer if you'd like).

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2020, 04:26:01 pm
content: Hey sd,sorry for late reply, I did not get a notice and found your answer just nowI've searched for a lot of things already, we contacted a company that offers controller boards and will try out one they offer.Since they are a local company, the needed information must be available somewhere.It would just be great to obtain schematics and/or firmware from IC manufacturers because we often have to design the boards to fit our devices, to fit the room we have for electronics.The pre-made boards usually are very big or have like audio amps etc which we don't need.But some don't show interest if the quote is less than 10k a year, I guess.I saw MStar before on one or 2 boards I found on aliexpress.I would like it if you could send my the informations by pm, it might be worth a tryIIRC HDCP need taxes to be paid once a year, this might not be a big problem depending on the conditions.The alternative would be losing customers and stopping producing display solutions, which (of course) is a "no no".

author: avst
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 05:37:54 pm
content: Realtek and MStar better known manufacturers for scaler chips, but unless you need >50k a year, it is nearly impossible to get detailed information. i-chips has some interesting scalers, but they are on the expensive side. Lontium Semiconductor and Himax are other possibilities.HDCP license is about 10k a year, but depending on your application, you may not need it.

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 12:31:52 pm
content: I just tried to contact MStar, but none of their addresses work, the eMails come back.Yeah, I thought so, we produce about 1500-2000 devices each year. I was guessing that 10k would not even be enough for them to reply at all :/We don't use HDCP currently, I suppose we won't need it in the future, there's no need to protect ad videos this way.I just checked i-chips, these are the "big" ones with way too many options. We don't need Ethernet or USB, SD card, eMMC etc, just HDMI in (optionally DP with auto-detect) and V-by-one out (8 lanes).Of course an OSD to adjust picture attributes (RGB, contrast, brightness) and maybe 1 or 2 other small options like "input signal present" output pin and I2C/UART to control the picture settings.It's really hard to find something. The supplier changes the panel specs and there's no way to obtain fitting converters ...

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 09:41:39 am
content: Just in case you're still interested Realtek RTD2796 seem to be the successor of the nice good RTD2660/2662and slowly datasheets and firmware kits seem to appear, but if don't want the hassle these are some inexpensive controller boards:http://www.nodkaindustrial.com/admin/Edit/uploadfile/2015081105008306.pdfCheers,DC1MC

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 10:12:46 am
content: Subscribing to this thread.

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 04:39:31 pm
content: BGA and also with external video ramwhy must it become so complicated ^^alright, I still keep my eyes open to see if I can find any schematics, I did not find anything yet

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 05:01:28 pm
content: In case anyone's interested:https://www.thine.co.jp/files/user/img/corporate/VBOSTD-V1P52-0000_Abridged%2BEdition.pdfthe current standard. I'm having a look.As NiHaoMike mentioned, eDP has become very common and has largely replaced LVDS for LCD panels. If you're in this industry, you may have some insight we have not, but what makes you think V-by-One is going to be more common than eDP?

author: avst
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 05:07:01 pm
content: VbyOne is more common in consumer style applications and larger screen diagonals ( think of smart TV etc., starting about at 32" ). On smaller diagonals eDP seems more present.

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 06:28:31 pm
content: I did not say it will be more common, I said our supplier's panels (AUO) have v-by-one and the current panels are end of life (already and soon)

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 09:18:28 pm
content: Quote from: NikWing on January 24, 2021, 04:39:31 pmOh well, life becomes more complicated day by day, I have a feeling that in the era of 4K displays it doesn't make sense to integrate the frame-buffer RAM in the chip, but have is separately, and also the era of (T)QFP packages may be over, BGA all the way, is not that you're gonna solder them by hand.There are at least a couple of German companies that are selling the same RTD2796 reference design that I've put on earlier, and I think some of them are also making the schematics available under NDA and also offer to customize your firmware, AFAIK is no big difference from RTD2660/2662 series, still the Synopsys 8051MCU. If you want to do your own development (why), you have to wait until some SDK and schematics leaks out, or hire a native Chinese national to dig on CSDN and PUDN, but this is still too early.It could be that Realtek will release a baby-RTD2796, like they did with the baby-RDT2660, aka RTD2525/2545/2555, with (somehow) reduced feature set and lower pin count, QFP48 against QFP128, but I don't think it will be very soon or ever, the RTD2796 is geared for high end TV and monitors, that want/need the gazillion of inputs and features, and currently the UHD digital signage market is so expensive that few tens of EUR extra from the chip and assembly costs aren't matter.Cheers,DC1MC

author: NikWing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2021, 05:14:15 am
content: I think I mentioned this earlier: we need our own development because of space limitations in the devicesyou can't put a big 455 board in a slim display when all you need is HDMI (or DP) in and Vb1 out.We've been looking around, but all we found is a supplier for (big) boards that cost like at least 3-4x times of what we have to pay for the parts to make an own solution.We can place BGAs with out pick-and-place machine, but you never know if every ball has contact.That also means we need a new reflow oven and that's something not every company can afford that easily, except it would run 24/7The only solution to be 100% safe is to outsource the production

author: avst
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2021, 11:11:47 pm
content: For simple solutions (no/limited scaling, no frame buffer, no OSD ...) this could work: MN869125http://www.socionext.com/en/products/assp/hv/]

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 05:18:18 am
content: Quote from: avst on January 25, 2021, 11:11:47 pm"...Type: FBGA, Size: 17 x 17 mm..."The poor pick and place machine is doomed I tell you

author: TomMR
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 09:25:07 am
content: Hello,I was scrolling through video related questions yesterday and found this one.You might try looking at Macro Image Technologyhttp://www.mitinc.co.kr/who have several devices that might fit your needs - The MDIN-400 has on-board RAM but only parallel I/O ports so you would need a few converter chips to/from HDMI and VbyOne, but last time I asked they were developing an MDIN600 series with higher performance and straight HDMI I/O. There's nothing on their website but you could ask their UK rephttps://www.l2tek.co.uk/suppliers/macro-image-technology/.