EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2015, 11:02:21 pm
content: Siglent Founder and CEO Eric Qin visited the EEVblog Lab and very kindly agreed to sit down a quick impromptu chat.http://siglent.com/ens/

author: gemby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:11:46 am
content: Nice one, i enjoy listen to successful stories like that.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:13:30 am
content: Yolo?

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:16:57 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on December 03, 2015, 12:13:30 amYolo ==> You knowJust my guess...

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:28:43 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on December 03, 2015, 12:13:30 amReally?You Only Live Once.....

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:37:40 am
content: When you go to a Research 1 university you get used to a lot of different accents. Nice video

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:41:59 am
content: That was a good one, hope he comes back in the future.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:55:21 am
content: After the recent debacle I thought that it was extremely decent of Mr Qin to show up and lay it all on the table, a good show by all accounts and we are all winners....

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:00:36 am
content: Great interview, Dave. Thank you.Yes it takes some time to understand someone with a heavy "foreign" accent, but you eventually come to understand them without struggle.It would appear that Mr. Qin's English is probably better than Dave's Mandarin (or whatever dialect).Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:08:07 am
content: Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.QuoteTotally agree!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:08:58 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 03, 2015, 01:00:36 amInfinitely so!QuoteIndeed.And he came to Australia just to come to the lab too and meet me too, so hats off.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:30:28 am
content: So if I buy a 2nd hand Siglent TE I can expect no support on firmware updates?There was no addressing any new strategy on their grey market problem. In my opinion they have to fix it at the distribution level, not at the ebay (or similar) end-point.Also nothing was said about why they treat grey market products as counterfeit ones. There are no clones or fake products and if their own products get out of their own distribution channels, the customer that buys it should not be punished by not offering service or falsely claiming a genuine Siglent product is a fake one.I think they should focus more on their production and distribution chain than dealing with the problem at the online outlets that offer them.Yes, I'm aware it's a problem for them, but in my opinion their current solution is the wrong approach and only leads to customer dissatisfaction. I don't care if the CEO tells me directly "buy from authorized distributors" If I do find a deal I'm not going to check if it's authorized or not, as long as it's a genuine product.Other companies have the same problems and it's up to the company to control their own distribution chain and make sure ghost runs don't happen and rejected products are not put on the market. Destroy them, refurbish them and make sure rejects don't make it into the mainstream. They are the only ones that can control that aspect, not us the customers.All that said, thanks for the Interview and especial thanks to Mr. Qin for showing us that he is a regular guy, with passion for his company, and I'm very impressed by their growth regardless if they are really number 2 or not. But I'm pleased that he shows passion and cares about engineers and hobbyists so a big thumbs upNow, I would suggest again to fix your distribution channel instead of using intimidation with the non-authorized distributors.Edit: sorry for being so redundant, but I strongly believe the solution is to control their production/distribution chain, their problems should never become their customer's problems that bought a genuine article no matter what.

author: Dino KL0S
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:50:05 am
content: Dave - I think you handled this interview superbly, even with the issue of language being a little difficult to wade thru, well done!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 02:36:55 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 01:08:07 amYes I can do that.Not sure if he would be offended, because I think his English is decent too. But could be hard for others who don't have English as a first language to understand.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 02:42:57 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on December 03, 2015, 01:30:28 amFirmware is freely available on their website.What he's saying is that if you buy gear from non-authorised dealers, then don't expect their 30days no questions asked asked return policy.He also said that they support older products firmware even though newer models have come out.QuoteAnd that's the exact problem they face, hence them trying to clamp down on authorised distributors selling outside their local markets.QuoteHe admitted that was a mistake. Try are trying to target authorised distributors sneakily selling stuff on ebay etc.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 02:56:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2015, 02:42:57 amThis is a big deal, so many companies will leave you in the dust the second they come out with a new product.I thought the interview was great.My first product from Siglent is their SDG2082X waveform generator and I love it.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 02:56:45 am
content: Hey I like that guy. He actually seems like a really cool fellow.Nicely done Dave, but personally I wish you would have really bugged(begged) him to try and challenge Rigol in brining out a competitor to the DS-815 SA. Right now no one can touch Rigol at all when it comes to SA's for the hobbyist. You mentioned SA's but didn't go far enough for me.>Firmware is freely available on their website.yes, it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear. It was nice to hear someone take customer service seriously. That is one way to become the most popular vendor at the low end of the market because you will get more 'fans' than the other guys.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:27:03 am
content: Quote from: nixfu on December 03, 2015, 02:56:45 amHe's cooler off camera. He's a nerd like us.QuoteTheir new SA is coming out this month. Don't know where in the market it will be positioned though.QuoteYes, that sucks big time. Rigol continue to not get this.I've also heard that Rigol are losing some good people...QuoteEric knows this, which is why he came all the way to Australia just to meet me (no other itinerary, he flew back the next morning).

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:30:16 am
content: I have one of their SDS 1052DL scopes and it appears to work well. Good to hear about a relatively new company breaking through the small business plateau. We are almost 40 years at our business and are still just 8 employees!

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:41:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2015, 03:27:03 amLosing good people is a way of life in any successful China electronics company. The market for good people is usually quite strong, and people go where the money is. If an engineer speaks English well, they can really pick and choose amongst employers.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:48:28 am
content: Quote from: nixfu on December 03, 2015, 02:56:45 amEh? I bought a power supply and oscilloscope from Emona Australia, but I got my firmware updates directly from the Rigol site. Ever since I did that, I get mailed firmware updates direct from Rigol whenever they become available.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:05:51 am
content: I'm not a really big fan of Siglent but the CEO making an effort like he did still deserves two thumbs up. I may even own a Siglent product some day, but will still try to avoid it if possible.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:25:34 am
content: Firstly; I'm embarrassed by the people who are mocking his language skills; as Dave pointed out, his English is much better than my Chinese (or my any other language). I would expect better from the EEVBlog crowd.Secondly; I'm amazed he came to Australia to come visit Dave; and good for him. He's pushed the brand way way up in my mind by taking the time to go straight for the hobbiest market and the biggest blogger.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:48:40 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 03, 2015, 05:25:34 amI don't think that the people that mentioned yolo were mocking his language skills, just asking what it meant. I did figure myself it meant "you know" based on context. And the You only live once was not mocking in my oppinion.Maybe I missed the comment that you are referring to.

author: zirlou21
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:56:08 am
content: ...Yolo!!!!!! congratulation from the Phillippines...

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 05:59:17 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 03, 2015, 05:25:34 amYou must be new here.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 08:35:28 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 03:48:28 amI also get emails direct from Rigol with links to the latest firmware. The last one arrived a few days ago for the 1000Z update released about a month ago.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 08:57:31 am
content: Thank you to Mr Qin for making the effort but I really had problems understanding what he was saying. If subtitles ever appear then I will certainly rewatch the video.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 09:14:57 am
content: Only watched a few seconds so far and the yolo is...you know.Back to watching...

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 10:10:43 am
content: I really commend him for doing that whole segment, you can see that it took a lot of effort for him to articulate all of his thoughts in English. That said, subtitles would be marvelous for viewers!

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 10:20:06 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on December 03, 2015, 08:57:31 amQuote from: nidlaX on December 03, 2015, 10:10:43 amI'm working on it right now... it's a time consuming job!Can someone figure out what was said from 4:47 to 5:15?

author: franksanderdo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 11:16:44 am
content: Hi rs20not sure if I am to late, but here comes the part from 4:47 to 5:15"...You know, at the beginning, at that time if you use a windows system or a linux platform, that was 2005, i don't think, that was impossible, so in that time we use our own (here I miss a word) operations system, it is a small (again a word missing) system, i don't remember the name..."I know the grammatics are weird, but I believe you can sort them better than I can (not being english native speaker)Thanks a lot for the effort producing sub titles

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 am
content: Awesome, thanks -- I misheard "platform" as "blank phone" and got lost. I've pieced it together now with your help!Next up: 23:25 to 23:35?And 27:52? "She did a Johnson?"

author: franksanderdo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:00:35 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 amhmmm.... blank phone can be kind of misleadingLet me try on:23:25 to 23:35"...In current time we give Options to MSX (not sure about the X) and MSO, AWG (nut sure about the G) series decode and this and this kind of features. May be in the future..."Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 amThat is a tough one... need some more runs listening to it....

author: davace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 ambuy our option, to update... update some such...and they...In current time we give option to...ms optionmso, awg, signal decode these kind of features. Maybe in the future we give the option to update the bandwidthQuote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 amShe did a wrong thing.If you need anything else, I'm happy to try...EDIT: I got "Signal Decode" from a website, it is one of the available software options... as are AWG and MSO... although the first time he says MS, I'm not 100% sure of the third bit... its not O, but it might not be Option either, now I re-listen. If anything, it sounds like "something" to me... but that doesn't fit the context.

author: franksanderdo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:10:19 pm
content: Ahhhh perfect davace!!!I could make any thing out of the 27:52....Will be cool to see the video with subtitles!

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 12:43:21 pm
content: Great episode

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:07:36 pm
content: Dave,Subtitles done. Feel free to download+reupload this file:https://rs20-static.firebaseapp.com/pano/eevblog826.srtIn YouTube it's "Edit Video" > "Subtitles and CC" >Add a language (or something) > "Upload a file". It's a proper subtitle file, not just a transcript.Thanks to davace and franksanderdo for the assistance!EDIT: Fixed broken link.

author: RupertGo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:15:19 pm
content: This is quite a coup for EEVBlog - CEOs from anywhere don't tend to do this, unless it's with the big guys and rarely even then. Certainly not in such an intimate and uncontrolled setting. Dave handled the interview really well, too.Definitely moves things up a notch for the blog. I'm sure it hasn't gone un-noticed.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:29:46 pm
content: Anyone have more info on the spectrum analyser?

author: TrioTest
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:46:28 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on December 03, 2015, 12:41:59 amAt TRIO T&M we are hoping that Eric comes back to Australia when the new spectrum analyser is launched. It would be great to have the world-wide launch on EEVBLOG.Disclosure: As a Siglent distributor I'm biased towards Siglent but actually proud to be so!! Eric flew in from China, and Steve flew in from the USA. The sole purpose was to visit Dave. That's a lot of cost and a lot of time-out from their other activities. Their level of commitment to Siglent customers is commendable and you can see it in Eric's sincerity. Makes us proud to be Siglent's Aussie distributor.www.siglent.com.auQuoteQuote from: eevblogYou won't have long to wait. Eric and Steve had a data sheet with them and approximate pricing. From what I saw the Siglent SA will sit nicely in its target market. Yes there's more than one model. and I think the market will be well-pleased with the new SSA series.QuoteQuote from: eevblogCorrect Dave. Service is one of the variables in the "value" equation. (Customer VALUE = Performance / Price +Service)

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 01:59:33 pm
content: Siglent did not rank high to me, but as he has taken EEVBLOG viewers so seriously, they shall be my first choice for my next test equipment.

author: halexa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 02:02:41 pm
content: Or you could just use the YouTube auto generated subtitles

author: cidcorp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 03:20:44 pm
content: Well I have to take second to applaud Eric for taking to to visit you and sit down for what must have been a difficult 30 minutes.This is another reason I think Siglent is putting a genuine effort to produce better product and listen to their customers.I only have one little thing to say to Eric. When asked about where he hires his engineers from, he said China only. I face palmedat that point.Eric, you want these products to be taken seriously, you want localization to be done professionally, hire one or two engineers from the targetmarket(s), North America, Different areas of Europe, etc. For example just 1 native English speaking/writing engineer would take all the chin-glish out of the productfor North America.Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2015, 02:42:57 amSo for example, purchasing from Batronix when I live in North America is what they are trying to clamp down on? If I would have purchasedlocal in Canada I would have spent 60% more on a product (because of a sale price). I would have been peeved if they said they don't ship toCanada due to arrangements with the Siglent.Anyway,, for ERIC and DAVE. Enjoyed the video, and I am really looking forward to seeing the Spectrum Analyzer to be releasedshortly - I'm hoping it'll be targeted to the low end of the market where currently Rigol sits alone.Chris

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 06:09:59 pm
content: A bigTHANK YOUto RS20, Davace and Franksanderdo for the subtitles, I could not have listened to the video without you.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 06:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on December 03, 2015, 01:29:46 pmMy Datasheet list 2 models, 2.1 and 3.2 GHzYou can have a peek at them in Chinese here:http://www.siglent.com/spectrum_analyzer/SSA3000X

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 07:46:35 pm
content: Peeked on the chinese site.Price starts at 36800 CNY ==> 5740,- USD.Not exactly a bargain...We know the "buck", I´m curious about the "bang".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 07:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: TrioTest on December 03, 2015, 01:46:28 pmObviously for a good reason because Siglent messed up big time on several occasions so damage control working at full throttle. Making a courtesy visit helps to keep up appearances but doesn't solve the underlying issues. By having their CEO visit Dave Siglent did nothing to improve their products and yet people are cheeringCome on guys don't get fooled by seeing shiny beads and mirrors!!I didn't watch the entire interview but any word about their firmware department? Having a few engineers try to train people who are fresh from school is a recipe for dissaster.

author: AlphZeta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 08:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 03, 2015, 07:00:19 pmYes, there are a few Chinese last names that are often mis-pronounced in the west. Qin should be pronounced as Chin or Tsin. I am surprised Eric didn't correct Dave on that (probably being polite).

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 08:14:17 pm
content: Mispronouncing names is kinda Dave's thing

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 08:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2015, 03:27:03 amHuh, but Rigol's firmwares are right here, available for direct download:http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 09:37:50 pm
content: Good interview Dave, and thank you Mr, Qin for taking the time to answer questions.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 09:40:56 pm
content: I really liked the structure of the interview and the type of questions.All questions were really relevant and the order they were built up, worked very well!Cool to hear that he started the company with fellow students.Some questions unanswered1. How did they come up with the name, and how long did it actually take them to come up with this nameMy guess is that Siglent comes from Signal and Intelligent.But still would be nice to hear other alternatives that made the first rounds before they decided on the final name. Apparently the name took really off, as the sales increased after they moved from an OEM business model to a branded business model.2. Easter eggs in Siglent products. Maybe the CEO put in some easter eggs himself in the first model.Well, at least they had 2,5 years to add one inAnd maybe even today there are some easter eggs left in the newer products.3. Financing. How they pulled this together in the very early days of the factory.Did they go to several banks for getting a business loan. Insight on the process back then, and maybe also some insights on the business climate in China today. Do they have incubators in China today? Is it as easy as in the US today or at least similar? Silicon valley spirit, Stealth phase approach, etc.4. Siglent's take on High-Level-Synthesis and an "All-in-C" based design flow, where the hardware logic is not written in VHDL by hardware engineers, but developed by software engineers, who synthesize the high-level source code into RTL.5. Siglent's take on Xilinx Zynq 7000 series (inspired by GW-Instek in Taiwan).6. Engineering education in China. If the amount of engineering students is increasing. Popular engineering schools. Competition between universities in research papers. In Europe some countries are facing challenges as number of engineering students is declining: "Everybody likes an iPhone, but nobody likes to make one".7. Factory tour in Siglent. Would be cool if this can be organized. To get a glimpse of how scopes are put together. There is a guy on Internet who does lots of these factory tours for Android tablet devices (armdevices.net). Still AFAIK I have not seen a factory tour of a Chinese scope factory.8. Where does Siglent buy their relative silent fans? Apparently they know, and maybe if they reveal, someone can pass the address on to RigolAnd Where does Siglent buy the factory-remove screen protectors? Rigol should have them on their screens as well9. Siglent's view on having a video output connector on test equipment. Why not have an HDMI connector on the oscilloscope and the spectrum analyzer. Or both VGA and HDMI to support older video projectors in the class room.10. Licensing. Whether Siglent licenses some SW libraries and IP from other companies (algorithms, RTL IP blocks, patents on signal processing, interleaving methods, etc.) in their products?11. Spectrum analyzer. Do they sell them in Europe? I could not find on their website.Maybe these questions can be answered in a follow-up interview, or can be addressed by email exchange between the Australian interviewer (aka Dave) and the Chinese CEO (aka Yolo)

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 10:19:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 03, 2015, 07:53:02 pmAs I remember the visit had been arranged well before the ebay shenanigans. So good on Eric to come and face the music, and Dave for not glossing over it. Many others CEO's would have found "other pressing engagements" and called off the interview...I'm surprised he didn't stay in sunny Sydney for a couple of days touristy stuff though. I guess a CEO's got stuff to do...

author: TrioTest
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2015, 11:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 03, 2015, 10:19:01 pmEric only had a few hours spare on Sunday afternoon. We had a quick drive west on the M4 and up the hills to Euroka Clearing in the Blue Mountains National Park. Steve from Siglent USA had just got off his flight a few hours earlier so we needed to keep them awake to get over the jet lag. We did some sight-seeing and had a traditional Aussie picnic. The new SDS2304X was well received by the locals in the National Park too.

author: RupertGo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 12:27:39 am
content: "9. Siglent's view on having a video output connector on test equipment. Why not have an HDMI connector on the oscilloscope and the spectrum analyzer. Or both VGA and HDMI to support older video projectors in the class room."It has other implications. My eyes have gone south recently, and I have a lot of difficulty using my (Rigol) spectrum analyser. A decent video out would mean I could easily see stuff on my very large, very bright LCD monitor - it would make all the difference. It can't be a cost consideration, given the very slight incremental price of including the facility and the amount of excellent, expensive engineering elsewhere, it has to be a marketing thing. But for me, and for lots of other people, it's a really painful omission.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:05:56 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on December 03, 2015, 07:46:35 pmDamn. Looks like a really nice instrument, but that's definitely outside my meagre price range. Especially considering you can get the tektronix mdo3000 with 3Ghz of spectrum analyser for US$3500 at the moment.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:21:50 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 01:07:36 pmThanks guys. Upload done.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:27:15 am
content: Quote from: RupertGo on December 03, 2015, 01:15:19 pmKeysight invited me to the US (paid for) to tour their facility and blog it and interview people etc, and I asked if the CEO would like to be interviewed. They went and asked and got a big fat NOPE. Only did interviews for Fortune 500 or *insert big name here*. I wasn't even on the radar.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:48:24 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 03, 2015, 07:53:02 pmThey have about 50 people (half their R&D staff on software/firmware)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:50:58 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on December 03, 2015, 09:40:56 pm*phew*Because I just made them up on the fly after I hit record!QuoteCompletely forgot that one, good question, as are the others.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:53:40 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 03, 2015, 10:19:01 pmCorrect, its been on the cards way before that incident.

author: gardner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:58:10 am
content: Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers? I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 02:27:13 am
content: Thanks for the subtitles. I have an especially hard time with the Chinese accent.Thanks for the interview. It would have been nice if he had elaborated on what metrics he's using by saying they are the #2 test equipment company and want to be #1. That's great to say that and all but Siglent is not Keysight or Keithley/Tek/Fluke or Lecroy. Yes I do realize some of those companies re-badged Siglent stuff but it's not their flagships by a very wide margin. Making general claims like that without qualifying them is a little dishonest in my opinion. He's an engineer and he should know that the details matter.(Bear with me here. I promise I'm not making fun of him. I swear)At around 30:35 he said the phrase...."... some young guy"and I just about laughed myself to death.It only would have been better if he had said "won hwung lo"

author: 6581
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 03:11:59 am
content: Thank you for the subtitles. Finally I can understand what the Aussie interviewer is saying.Great interview. Balanced questions, interesting topics. Some of the questions touched areas where I wasn't expecting an answer and still Mr. Eric Qin showed openness (some companies wouldn't probably reveal number of R&D for example), and was altogether close to ground - proud of his company in a very subtly humble way. Definitely improved my respect to this company.Thank you Dave & especially your honor quest, Mr. Eric Qin.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 03:27:03 am
content: Quote from: gardner on December 04, 2015, 01:58:10 amI asked this afterwards.PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 03:39:30 am
content: Quote from: gardner on December 04, 2015, 01:58:10 amIf you want the best quality board assembly its best to go to people who do nothing but board assembly, and have a reputation for good results. They deal with the volumes needed to achieve the polish and consistency you are looking for. In test equipment manufacture you won't.

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 04:06:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 04, 2015, 01:27:15 amI doubt the Keysight CEO is anywhere near Qin as regards technical chops.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 04:15:11 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 04, 2015, 03:39:30 amThat's exactly what Eric said. They work with a huge volume high tech assembler that knows how to do a quality job consistently.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 04:26:27 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 04, 2015, 03:47:04 amYou need to look around China more. Assembling boards in house is pretty common, and often doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the volumes aren't high enough the boards end up being hand assembled, because fully automated lines are impractical for anything but high volumes. Rising costs are changing things, and even a lot of highly automated assembly is being driven out of China to Vietnam and other countries. However, right now you can still find lots of low to medium volume in house assembly work in China.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 08:19:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 04, 2015, 01:53:40 amIMHO the Ebay incident is just one of many incidents. The biggest issue Siglent has is with the firmware hence my question on how Siglent is going to improve that. As Wuerstchenhund already noted: Siglent isn't a new kid on the block and in the interview the CEO also told they had to work 5 times longer on their first oscilloscope than they expected so it is really hard to defend why they have neglected their firmware department so much. The CEO knows firmware takes long and yet he has not taken proper action.

author: Gabri74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 08:54:19 am
content: At one time he mentioned that they are using Linux in some of their products,but I can't find any reference to this nor any link to source code in their site.Maybe my google-fu is not strong enough...It would be really interesting to see what kernel and rootfs the are using...

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 12:03:01 pm
content: The firmware is quite a large part of the value of the goods.Why would we expect that they would reveal the source code?It isn't advertised as Open Source in any way, is it?

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 12:25:49 pm
content: Hats off. I’m impressed.They need an artist. The stuff on the bench looks unrelated to each other.Give me his number and I’ll fix it for them.This is how to make a bunch of equipment that belongs together.http://www.yaesu-museum.com/a_ja6nka-yaesu.jpg

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 04, 2015, 03:27:03 amWho gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 02:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: @rt on December 04, 2015, 12:25:49 pmYou are right two times here.Great products, but could use someone to beautify 'm and give them a house style

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 02:28:39 pm
content: Quote from: Gabri74 on December 04, 2015, 08:54:19 amI understand they used Windows CE, Linux, and their own custom OS, but currently all development is Linux based.I will have to watch it again now it's been subtitled as I only got half of it first watch.

author: GNU_Ninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 02:54:40 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pmDamn! I nearly laughed my coffee all over my workstationTo be fair, it's not just Chinese companies doing that.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 05:47:12 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 03, 2015, 02:36:55 amI once saw a chinese man trying to explain something to a japanese man , both with only a rudimentary gtasp and very bad pronunciation... eyewatering ...the alice for the lingosilelle in poi fai miko teknology ...the netlist for the ringoscillator in point five micron technology.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 06:26:18 pm
content: It’s the new girl that does itQuote from: Macbeth on December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pm

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2015, 06:44:12 pm
content: Perhaps that "new girl" who submitted the DMCA TakeDown got busted down to Nomenclature Obfuscator after the Ebay debacle. She seems more suitable for that kind of task.

author: gardner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 12:11:15 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pmI wonder if there is a contract manufacturing angle to this. Does obscuring the part number help ensure that your contract manufacturer uses the parts you give him instead of sourcing crappy knock-offs from the night market the next street over? Or do they do the rubbing off after board assembly?

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 12:22:49 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on December 03, 2015, 07:46:35 pm$5700 US.Disappointing. Does no other company have the guts to challenge Rigol in the ~$1000 digital SA market?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 12:30:40 am
content: Siglent will remain number 2 if they can't beat the number 1 from its spot. Which I took as Rigol rather than Key$ight. Apples and Oranges guys! Though it's fairly obvious that Siglent is only one single character change and a shuffle to Agilent.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 01:11:09 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 04, 2015, 06:44:12 pmI dunno - maybe she will mess up and remove the part #'s on jellybean 74 series parts while leaving the good stuff exposed for all to see!

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 01:26:40 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 05, 2015, 12:30:40 am#2 what?... #1 what?Sales? Not likely.Performance? Nope.Reliability? Nope.Support? Nope.Customer service? Nope.Siglent is the #1 company named Siglent in the whole world test equipment market! They are so far ahead in this regard that no one will EVER catch them! They single handedly innovated the entire company named Siglent industry!Realistically Rigol is still a joke when it comes to high quality equipment, so if they consider them #1 what does that make Siglent. Just because they make cheap stuff, and maybe sell a lot of cheap stuff, that doesn't make them a market leader. No one is going to pay $5700 for Siglent quality stuff. If you proposed that to your boss you would be laughed at.I'm not saying there isn't a place for Siglent. The stuff they make is great value for hobby use and I agree it really does open up a lot of equipment to people that previously couldn't afford it before. That alone is killer. I have one of their cheap function generators at my house. Just quit the marketing BS about how you want to be #1 in the industry (whatever that means).

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 02:58:57 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 03, 2015, 01:08:07 amI was trying to have it on in the background while working on something else, but I was having to concentrate too much on what he was saying. I haven't worked with many Chinese English speakers, so my understanding of how the accent inflects upon English isn't as good as say Vietnamese or Korean (much more common where I live)

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:30:29 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 04, 2015, 12:03:01 pmIf they're using Linux and the immense amount of userspace code required to support it, the license requires certain things. You should read the GPL some time.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:32:40 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on December 05, 2015, 01:26:40 am"I think in the current time, if we calculate the quantity of oscilloscopes, I believe we're maybe around number 2?"He clearly stated he was referring to number-of-oscilloscopes (as opposed to total sales, which would be total-$-value-of-everything). Obviously it is a metric that favours a low-cost producer, but an impressive achievement nevertheless.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:26:11 pm
content: On the About page of the Siglent website, there is a brief Company History:http://www.siglent.com/ENs/about.aspx?id=2In 2005 they launched their very first scope with model number ADS7000.This made me curious, so I started googling about this model number, as I wanted to find out more about the specs of their very first scope, and I also wanted to find out how it looked likeFirst I was googling on "Siglent ADS7000" and could not find this scope.But then I realized that they started as an OEM company in the early days, and that the scope might have been released under a different brand.One of the queries resulted in Atten but a different model number.Then I realized that ADS might come from Atten Digital Scope. So maybe it is indeed an Atten.So then I googled on "Atten ADS7000", and found several results.http://toolboom.com/en/Digital-Oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7202SA.phphttp://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ATTEN-ADS7102-100MHz/413213_623867377.htmlhttp://www.mondoplast.ro/eng/Digital-oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7102CAn-pg_ft-3289https://books.google.no/books?id=-lZgBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA387&lpg=PA387&dq=atten+ads7202c&source=bl&ots=IWBV_0A3po&sig=TckMAZSm7H4Y5e_jyKtvlKUD1Uk&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM1O_Uj8XJAhWl8HIKHWccAjMQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=atten%20ads7202c&f=falseThe Atten ADS7000 looked really good actually!They even had some color models. See the images belowEven more googling, I stumbled on the following post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rigol-ds1102e-vs-xytron-dso1102cal-aka-%28atten-ads1102cal%29/msg172409/#msg172409Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?

author: alan.green@gmail.com
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 05:49:11 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 03, 2015, 08:15:19 pmIf you're going to pick on Dave's pronunciation of a Chinese surname, you'd better ask him to get the tone right too. FWIW I'm sure Mr Qin has suffered through many brave attempts by English speakers to say his name, and would have known what he was in for if he had watched even one mailbag.Dave: Loved this episode. Am going to watch it again now that it has subtitles. Thanks!

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 06:16:11 am
content: I've lived most of my life in Yolo County, California. Until this thread, I hadn't wondered where the name came from, so I looked it up. Here is the real meaning of Yolo, courtesy of counties.org:YOLOCreated 1850. In the original act of 1850, the name was spelled “Yola.” Yolo is an Indian name variously believed to be a corruption of an Indian tribal name Yo-loy meaning “a place abounding in rushes” or of the name of the Indian chief, Yodo, or of the Indian village of Yodoi.------------------Could it also be the origin of Yoda?Mike in Yolo County, California

author: analogNewbie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 12:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on December 05, 2015, 04:26:11 pmSiglent = Atten.Dirty history about Atten:http://translate.google.com.hk/translate?act=url&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.amobbs.com/thread-3540497-1-1.html

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:08:44 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 06, 2015, 03:00:36 pmThe error doesn't say that my ISP doesn't allow access to the website.It says that GOOGLE is "unable to access".Is this an artifact of the infamous Chinese web censorship?

author: analogNewbie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 06, 2015, 03:08:44 pmreplace the "translate.google.com.hk" in the url to "translate.google.com"

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 04:33:03 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on December 03, 2015, 09:40:56 pmOne more question to my earlier posted list:12. The first oscilloscope that they worked on in the initial days. What hardware architecture did they use? Details on the FPGA, ADC, etc. What reference designs did they use (FPGA, analog front-end)?How did they design the analog front-end in the first place? Are their books available with examples? =)Which design tools did they use for the PCB (PCB schematic, PCB layout)? Which design tools did they use for the software (FPGA design tools, MCU design tools, RTOS tools). Which design tools did they use for the housing (CAD tools)? All this software is very expensive, so maybe they did this on the university campus, in order to make use of student licenses? In case they did not do everything internal, and outsourced, they could give some more details on the type of partners which they worked with. Even if they were good at the hardware and the software, engineers typically are not experts in CAD tools to make housing, and to make everything fit nicely together. What was the size of their first production run? And last but not least, what was actually the model number of their very first oscilloscope? Are the specs and pictures still available? Did that one run the proprietary RTOS which they were talking about? Which RTOS?All this information is from 2002, so it should not be sensitive anymore. It can be really educating for other startup newbies and electronic students. Siglent most likely will not have an issue with sharing some more info on this front, as it seems that Siglent is very pro electronic engineering education, given that their company mission is to make test equipment affordable for students and beginners. Moreover it will be free marketing for their company indirectly. Maybe the CEO, should write a book, that includes pictures from the early days, with the fancy title "The making of Siglent" providing insights from the early days - how a small Chinese startup has grown out to one of the top 3 Chinese test equipment manufacturers"

author: lm3baker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 04:37:43 am
content: Quote from: analogNewbie on December 06, 2015, 12:37:12 pmCertainly seems that Siglent was called DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd. and made scopes for Atten, but not sure if they were an OEM supplier to Atten or an actual subsidiary?http://www.09635.com/company/2041764.aspxSays they are an Atten group subsidiary, but their wiki (??) pagehttp://baike.baidu.com/view/8055878.htmdoes not mention Atten at all, and Atten no longer sell scopes. Maybe a question for the CEO, what happened between these two companies?Siglent also appear to be / have been an OEM for LeCroy.edit: the forum software apparently does not support either unicode in general or Chinese characters specifically.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:33:31 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 05, 2015, 03:30:29 amHuh?The fact that the Linux kernel is GPL means that if you use it and/or modify it for your own purposes and embed it in your own product you need to make that public, yes, but it doesn't mean that every application you run under it must also be made compeletely open and public. That would be just silly.Of course, those of us that are actually sane avoid all those shenanigans in the first place by basing our products and spending our time and effort on things like BSD which are actually, truly, free and ignore the GPL brouhaha, but I digress....

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:28:50 am
content: Quote from: drussell on December 08, 2015, 06:33:31 amThat's not what I said, now is it?

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:38:56 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 08, 2015, 07:28:50 amThis conversation might be progressed more constructively if you clarified your point. For example, specifying what "certain things" you were referring to.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:45:17 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 08, 2015, 07:38:56 amOr if people didn't make silly assumptions. All I said is that the license has certain requirements. I did not say 'you must release all the code'.Must I really copy and paste the contents of the GPL here?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:52:09 am
content: Quote from: lm3baker on December 08, 2015, 04:37:43 amYeah right.Atten scopes in Aussie:http://www.altronics.com.au/test-measurement/oscilloscopes/QuoteAnd many others worldwide.BK Precision for example:http://www.bkprecision.com/products/oscilloscopes/2190D-100-mhz-1-gsa-s-2-ch-digital-storage-oscilloscope.htmlAt one time I grey marketed Atten but their support could not compare with Siglent so I jumped ship and was offered a distributorship after closing a 10+ unit sale for them.Now none of my old web links to Atten sites work.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 07:54:59 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 08, 2015, 07:45:17 amIf you think Siglent has fulfilled its obligations under the GPL, then your comment seem awfully random. If you think Siglent has failed to fulfil its obligations under the GPL, it seems a one-sentence summary of that failure would be helpful to advance this conversation past your games?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:04:14 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 08, 2015, 07:54:59 amWho's playing games?I suggested Richard read the GPL to understand the post immediately above his. Nothing more.

author: alan.green@gmail.com
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 10:00:47 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 08, 2015, 07:52:09 amAtten rebranded to Gratten for their scopes and analyzers. Maybe try your links to the Gratten site instead?http://en.gratten.cn/about_us/

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:22:02 pm
content: I think that the name ATTEN is much nicer than GRATTEN.Maybe they still use ATTEN on their actual scopes, as the name GRATTEN is too long to put on the sticker

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:33:07 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on December 08, 2015, 02:22:02 pmAmong scope makers GRATTEN is obviously the big cheese.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 05:16:51 pm
content: Quote from: alan.green@gmail.com on December 08, 2015, 10:00:47 amI thought this was a joke. In the UK, mumsGrattancataloguewas a famous resource to millions of teenage boys.At least in the days before the internet.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2015, 02:05:30 pm
content: I just watched the interview, motivated by the other thread (the eBay ordeal).I have to say I found Mr. Qin a very nice person, very well prepared for the interview and with an honest face. His presence and effort in trying to communicate dignified his brand. I would easily have watched another 15-20 minutes of this interview. One question I wish Dave had asked is what is Siglent's plans to expand to other regions, specially South America.Kudos to Dave for bringing Mr. Qin and I hope this type of video becomes a trend. It's things like this video that are making EEVBlog stablish itself as the most influential EE (in all levels from hobbist to pros) vlog and forum on the internet today.Yolo, ya!

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 06:49:00 am
content: Quote from: AlxDroidDev on December 09, 2015, 02:05:30 pmBesides, I'd be curious to know how this interview came about.Was Dave asking to interview some Siglent staff, or was the event proposed by them?In any case, thumbs up to Dave for this very interesting interview and to Mr. Eric Qin for making the effort and leave his business behind to go talk to that crazy ozzie blogger

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 08:46:43 pm
content: Did you ask the Siglent Founder and CEO about the plagiarism and the lawsuit in court?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/were-siglent-and-atten-the-same-company-back-in-the-days/Quote from: EEVblog on December 02, 2015, 11:02:21 pm

author: SWB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2024, 02:03:38 am
content: I just saw this video reposted on the ToolBoom channel. Authorized?https://youtu.be/m2PU63R_xR4

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 10:50:35 am
content: Quote from: SWB on December 21, 2024, 02:03:38 amThey didn't ask to upload that. Takedown notice submitted.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 12:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 22, 2024, 10:50:35 ami was just a tad curiousand found some on bilia 266hr compendium ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 11:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simmed on December 22, 2024, 12:02:21 pmYeah, been there for years, no chance of taking those down.