8-Bit Guy Rare IBM 7496 Attempted Repair Fail - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:46:47 am
content: Someone please take these machines away from him to a better place. What the hell was he thinking? I've seen people less electronically inclined not shove paperclips into random pins just because it seems like they should be connected.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 04:57:49 am
content: .

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:21:25 am
content: He tested for continuity in the monitor+switch half first, which is a good start. I wonder how it's actually wired -- series PSUs, current draw sense, earth wire being used as something else?I've done lots of bad things to both new and old, common and rare equipment (including much worse than this). I've learned a lot. The only difference is he takes videos of his mistakes and shares them.EDIT: In fact one of my earliest repairs involved a paperclip, some sticky-tape and some rare collectable equipment I wanted to keep running. I learned a lot, I got it to work and I eventually nuked it much harder than the author of this video did. I still hold onto its parts to this day in the hope I will at some point find a way of repairing it, but I suspect I nuked a bunch of custom silicon on it.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:27:09 am
content: LMAODo a two button meme where the options are security bit and dremel. XDAlso, a continuity test is not 100%, there could be a low ohm load that the power supply detects and turns on. Clearly it was wrong, so it wasn't just a switch between those two pins. (EDIT:yes, like the situations you mentioned in your edit)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 08:25:32 am
content: big input capacitor would also buzz when measuredI dont mind making a mistake, but not tracing what went wrong after opening power supply was a little weaksauce

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2020, 05:28:16 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on September 26, 2020, 08:25:32 amIt seemed like he really didn't care at all, which is aweful.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 02:28:51 pm
content: That Dremel action was *really* awful. Just carving a slit into the screwhead would have been enough, no need to cut traces into the unreplaceable PSU :/And that paperclip-part was even more awful. Probably would be too much to ask to measure first.(OK, the computer was probably already dead *before*, and so for the last 30 years, but that should not be a reason to damage it even more...)

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 02:58:32 pm
content: Idiot waste of effort. Anyone who's ever butchered IBM security Torx screws know that all you need is a small punch applied at an angle to bust off the center pin and allow an ordinary Torx driver to be used. If it doesn't snap off cleanly at its base on the first hit, move the punch and hit it again at right-angles to the initial hit.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 03:55:58 pm
content: I am not a huge tube fan, but yes, this was a head-scratcher. I read the comments here and I read many of the comments on the tube.Without a doubt it has (had) value. Not so sure how valuable it was and "priceless" seems to be a bit over the top. Obviously, its treatment misses the mark. I looked at his "about" verbiage..."My main goal at this point is to make educational content about retro technology that is interesting and engaging."I could not find any responses by the author at all? So, what does he do now? Just ignore all the "outrage"? Come out with some defense? Admit that he screwed up and ask for forgiveness? Delete the video and act like it never happened? I wonder how you come back from this or do you just not care and go make the next video?In numismatics, everyone has seen a valuable old coin that was cleaned with something like steel wool to make it "bright and shiny" and causing damage such that the coin is almost without value and considered a 'cull' (and yes, there are certain specific situations where "cleaning" is acceptable).The response is usually, "Oh what a shame", don't you know that you ruined its value. Don't ever do that again. The hope then, is that the person has learned and does not do that anymore.What is the hope here?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 05:17:38 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on September 28, 2020, 03:55:58 pmSeems that he succeeded in "engaging" quite a few of us...

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 07:35:40 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on September 28, 2020, 05:17:38 pmEducational it was not, though

author: nwvlab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2020, 08:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on September 26, 2020, 05:21:25 amThe wires are not misleading. Blue (Neutral), Yellow/Green (earth), Brown (live). What he is measuring is the input resistance of the monitor (maybe the primary of a transformer?). Of course the impedance is much higher than only 15 Ohm.Even if he is located in the US (where different colors are used), the size of the wires, the fact that there are only two cables going to the monitor (the other being the VGA cable), the presence of 3 wires and the unusual "high voltage" connector should have been a warning bell for him...

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 03:29:06 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on September 26, 2020, 05:28:16 pmAwesomely aweful?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 04:02:11 am
content: Quote from: nwvlab on September 28, 2020, 08:09:56 pmI'm in the US and I've known for many years that brown and blue are live and neutral, although it took me a while memorize which is which.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 04:42:02 am
content: Ah, yes, wonderfully-intuitive AC line wiring color standards, brought to you by the same people who thought it was a good idea to use a comma as a decimal point.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 06:07:48 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 29, 2020, 04:42:02 amI'm not sure it's any less intuitive than our standards. The only reason I know black is live and white is neutral is that I was taught that and it has always been that way. Black is also only live with AC, in DC systems it usually means ground.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 06:23:48 am
content: Pre-EU-harmonization, UK wiring colors were Line = Red, (and also Yellow and Blue in three phase installations), Neutral = Black and Green = Ground (or Earth in britspeak). I believe this was common in 240V countries.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2020, 08:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 29, 2020, 06:07:48 amValid point there for sure. Black = hot, wtf.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2020, 11:30:13 pm
content: Quote from: nwvlab on September 28, 2020, 08:09:56 pmTurning the monitor on turned the main system on. This is nothing to do with colours.The video author interpreted this (as far as I can tell) to mean the monitor and it's switch were in series the computer's PSU.I don't think this would be easy to regulate in the traditional styles of PSU used in CRTs and computers, so I know this is a very unlikely wiring config, but for the average person with basic electrical knowledge "putting things in series" sounds sensible. The author's electrical knowledge was not enough for this situation, but I'm glad to see some electrical knowledge being applied and used, which puts this ahead of a lot of the repairs and wiring I see on the web.There must be something else going on in this device to signal the monitor's power switch state to the main box. Perhaps current sensing in the main box or a whole bunch of isolation + then extra signalling of PSON via the video connector? Not sure, the video presenter is the only person that can tell us.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2020, 11:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: DrG on September 28, 2020, 03:55:58 pmIt's best to put yourself in the shoes of the other person too, that helps understand their perspective & what could happen from here.The authorprobablythinks he tried to repair a device, made some mistakes, but thought it was interesting and posted it on the web. From an intentionalist perspective: he thought he was OK.Now the author is seeing a lot of angry reactions. He may engage with some, but he might also think it's quite unsafe to engage with a lot of them (and probably not worth it, as is the case on the internet when packs are angry). Some commentors will assume that not replying or not acknowledging them is both an infraction against them and an infraction against vintage gear itself.There are a lot of ways this can still get messier. If the author posts a meta-video about the responses, explaining his position, then there is a good chance a lot of commenters will still not care (because it shows his position without addressing theirs) and may even get angrier.IMO the safest thing for the author to do would be to release a follow-up video showing 'actions' before any video showing words/emotions/positions. Ie show a video where the actual wiring is discovered and the blown parts are identified. Internet discussions tend to be more fruitful when they're handling technical stuff, rather than words/emotions/positions.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 02:27:26 am
content: His biggest mistake was failing to realize when he was in over his head and consulting others for help. Anyone who goes poking paperclips into mains powered devices clearly is unqualified to work on them and should refrain from doing so. There is no shortage of knowledgeable folks who could have provided assistance. If it's some commodity device then fine, knock yourself out poking and prodding it, if you blow it up it's no huge loss. But with irreplaceable and rare vintage hardware you don't have that luxury, it is very important to proceed with caution and recognize when you lack the skills necessary to continue.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 03:20:08 am
content: My main objection is that if you have something that has been sitting in a box for 30 years or so, you don't just unpack it, plug it into the mains, and switch it on.The minimum you do is to disconnect the power supply, bring the power supply up slowly on a variac and measure the output voltages. Possibly you open the power supply and test/replace the capacitors before you try powering it up.Maybe you also bring up the system board slowly on a bench power supply and check voltages carefully before connecting to the system power supply. Any onboard capacitors could also have deteriorated over the years and may need reforming.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 03:46:55 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 01, 2020, 03:20:08 amThat's a common practice but not always the best move when bringing up equipment with switching power supplies. They make up for lower primary line voltages by drawing more current, and some older units may not be stable under those conditions. (If current increases as voltage decreases or vice versa, that's basically the definition of negative resistance.)If concerned about the possibility of destructive failure in a switcher, you should perform a preliminary ESR check on all the caps in the supply, then disconnect the load and replace it temporarily with power resistors or other benign loads. Then, just hold your nose, shut your eyes, and plug it in. If all looks good after a minute or two, you can try again with the actual load in place.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 04:39:47 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 01, 2020, 03:20:08 amI don't bring up switchmode power supplies on a variac. Some of them, those in the Tek TDS460 scopes for example will blow up if you do that. It's wise to do have a look inside it first though, and put a relatively low current fuse in series.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 05:01:17 am
content: Quote from: james_s on October 01, 2020, 04:39:47 amOK, I didn't know that.Is there a danger of failure during a brownout in that case? Surely there are cases where the line voltage is less than normal. Or is it just extra low voltages that would be a problem?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 05:09:38 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 01, 2020, 05:01:17 amI don't know. I already blew one up once trying to be careful and bring up the voltage slowly, I'm not going to risk blowing it up again by dropping down the voltage to see what happens. I had read about the risk years ago but this was the first time I actually damaged one. I would be most concerned with vintage PSUs, the sort that are often self oscillating designs without any sort of control IC.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 05:41:35 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 29, 2020, 08:41:31 pmYou do realize that the USA, Canada and Japan are the only big places in the whole world where White=Netural, its mostly a 110V thing.The Live=Black,Brown,Gray Netural=Blue color scheme is used everywhere in Europe and has spread all over the wold replacing most of the weird color standards of individual countries. This even includes UK, Russia...etc. The problem however is that some of these obsolete UK-like standards use black as neutral, yet according to EU black is one of the 3 phases...so yeaaah. But these standards typical also have red or yellow in them, so when you see one of those wire colors you know it was wired according to the old standard, while seeing a brown wire is a sign it was wired acording to the new standard.Yes i know a lot of these mains color codes are not that sensible, but the EU color codes are chosen in a way that they can't be mistaken with the other existing AC power standards and can't be confused with DC power. This is also part of the reason why Earth is Green+Yellow instead of just one color, to not be confused by any existing standards that use Green or Yellow wires for something else.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 06:22:05 am
content: This was as much of a repair as me trying to follow a recipe written in Chinese just by looking at the pictures.He didn't understand it and took the default approach of do whatever. Throw enough shit on a wall and eventually some of it is going to stick.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 07:22:53 am
content: Another youtuber who does have a bit of experience with vintage commodores, and prolly a go-to information source, rolled out a classic TRS-80 collection video.Here, we see an otherwise experienced vintage (commodore) computer handler wandering into other pastures.My question is, while it seems a good idea to power up old things with the lid off, a rouge cap will take an eye out! Is their biggest mistake filming this?https://youtu.be/_ez7x-untdA?t=178

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 09:36:29 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 01, 2020, 07:22:53 ammeh, its just a rifa cap, class X, whole point of it is shorting and blowing up. I say a good show.Stuff blowing up is just a part of the process, no biggie _if_ you are competent, like RetroSpector78 for exampleorQuote from: Whales on September 30, 2020, 11:44:22 pmAh yes, the good old Cancel culture (1). Some people in YT comments already started amassing prosecutorial files, digging up video of 8bit guy strolling trough supermarket with AR on his back while laughing at the prospect of scaring some moms.(1) Reference for the people unaware what a crazy time it is to be a public person right now. Style of presentation might not be everyones cup of tea, but the message is solid.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 09:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 29, 2020, 04:42:02 amYou are confused.They don't use a comma as a "decimal point", they use it as a "decimal separator". Any symbol that manages to visually separate two strings of numbers is as good as any.As for intuitive, you yanks need to be talking, righto!https://pics.me.me/united-states-the-rest-of-the-world-arbitrary-retarded-rollercoaster-23184989.png

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 10:03:41 pm
content: Quote from: TinkeringSteve on October 01, 2020, 09:46:35 pmAh, my mistake, then.QuoteIf your goal is to get people killed, sure. Now, was that dose supposed to be 1,750 mg or 1.750 mg?

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 10:35:05 pm
content: Unlisted video, no surprises there.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 10:55:09 pm
content: It gets worse. Even if as an American he doesn't recognize non-USA common mains wiring colour codes in current use, surely applying even the slightest amount of logic would have led him to the conclusion that with three wires going to a monitor, which in that era would *ALWAYS* be grounded, there weren't enough wires for Line, Neutral and switched Line return. As for the screw butchery - more or less forgivable if he'd done it to his own property - but he admitted it was a borrowed machine. I don't know about you, but if I have to work on something borrowed I try to avoid doing any extra damage to it!

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2020, 11:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on October 01, 2020, 10:55:09 pmThat, plus, anyone wanna place any bets on whether he had the decency to even try to repair the PSU he blew up? "Oh, shucks, replacing the fuse didn't work, on to the next machine, then".

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 05:21:32 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 01, 2020, 10:03:41 pmOh yes the deeded comma , decimal separator.This hellish atrocity is used where i live. So as soon as you set windows regional settings correctly it starts getting used everywhere...well.. almost everywhere... actually its just sort of everywhere...it kinda depends.Some software correctly uses regional settings and recognizes the comma, other software ignores all commas and takes the usual dot. You always have to try both to find out what it is. Sometimes the piece of software will want a dot in some places while a comma in other places. Sometimes the software will even stop working because something internal expects a dot but gets a comma internally. In excel switching between comma and dot breaks macros and VBA scripts most of the time. I hate this damn thing as it causes me so many problems.But who even uses a 1000s separator anyway? I only really seen banks make consistent use of it. Its not as big of an issue because they typically write it as "10,000,000.00 USD", so when you see those two trailing zeroes you know you are in the cents. But if you ask me a more sensible way of writing it is "10 000 000.00 USD". Some programing languages do let you put arbitrary separators in numbers so you can do something like "10_000_000.00" in your code. Good thing engineering prefers SI prefixes.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 06:48:11 am
content: The Japanese use 10000 as a historical separator. Can make you bonkers trying to convert on the fly.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 07:09:31 am
content: Try this for funhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 07:57:29 am
content: Quote from: george.b on October 01, 2020, 11:08:46 pmWorse than that, he claims he "learned from his mistakes", and that it's still educational. No, we already knew it was dumb to assume and learning would imply he actually figured out what's going on, which he never did. And he uses the fact that these were loaned computers as an excuse, which makes screwing around with them and butchering them all the more inexcusable, don't screw around with something other people may find valuable just for the views. We don't care what dumb stuff him and his tech buddies did in the past, or that they don't care about those machines 'cause we do.Don't call us armchair warriors when you made no effort yourself and admit it mr 8-bit. Even Shango066 is better than that, he doesn't give up and actually tries to figure things out when it seems hopeless. He also follows the "do as I say, not as I do" motto, which 8-bit guy makes no effort to claim.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 08:25:10 am
content: One thing's for certain. He's right about the angry mob.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 08:25:39 am
content: Well the thing is the The8BitGuy is not an actual electronics engineer.His level of troubleshooting comes down to just swap parts until it works. Okay sure he can actually use a soldering iron to replace a bulging electrolytic capacitor, but that's about it. He does not have the skills to actually troubleshoot a fault down to the component level.This sort of component level repair becomes that much more of a skill when there is no service manual available, so you have to slightly reverse engineer the thing in order to figure out how it works, in order to probe stuff, in order to figure out if it has the correct waveform, in order to locate the faulty component, in order to replace it.I have done stupid stuff with my own boatanchor repairs too, sometimes making it even more broken than before, then fixing it properly. He was just taking too big of a bite with trying to repair these things without the required skills.Dremeling the security hex flat to get it out was just plain stupid on the other hand. Just bust out that security pin with a flathead screwdriver or dremel a straight slot across the middle for a screwdriver to fit if you really must.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 12:11:15 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on October 02, 2020, 08:25:39 amBut he knows enough people with enough knowledge to tell him not to just short out a PSU connector. Sending out a picture to someone is not rocket science any more.I'm not an EE, but I certainly would not do that, but then I'm probably more on the careful side anyway.

author: cruff
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2020, 12:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 02, 2020, 06:48:11 amWhere I used to work I gave talks a few times for tours of the computer center for visitors from Japan. The translator kept a small note pad in hand and when I mentioned numbers, he or she would write the number down quickly, to be able to convert to the 10000 units while speaking the translation.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 06:20:50 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on October 02, 2020, 12:11:15 pmExactly, and dremeling the sides of a screw instead of googling better ways to remove them without the bit then making exuses like "I didn't know you could break the pin off" and "if I cut the middle it won't be perfectly straight and the screwdriver will slip" are absolute cop-outs we can see right through.Even MyMateVince is better than that and he's a proper noob.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 06:55:24 am
content: Seems that the 8-Bit Guy has found a "solution" for dealing with the critical feedback: Comments on his original Youtube video are now disabled, and all the posted comments are gone. Class act...

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 07:26:27 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on October 02, 2020, 12:11:15 pmHe did say in the follow up video (linked above) that he discussed it afterwards with several people with repair experience, and they all said they would have done the same. I find it absurd that anyone would bridge contacts that they don't know the function of. Especially when it obviously look like a power connector, and a mains one at that!The whole (unlisted btw) response video was pretty unimpressive, calling people armchair warriors and whatnot. I do recall him doing the paperclip trick once before, and it did blow something up. Can't find the video unfortunately. I'm not sure he has learned a lesson from this yet.And disabling comments to videos where people are criticizing you is never a good look.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 07:57:19 am
content: Quote from: JackJones on October 03, 2020, 07:26:27 amYeah, nar.He addressed this in the follow up vid. There were a group of unsavory posters who decided to descend en masse to vent about a controversial video he posted years ago on another channel.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 08:11:30 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on October 03, 2020, 07:57:19 amStill not a great way of dealing with it. Why not lock the comment area for new comments, delete the off-topic comments, but leave the criticism related to the actual botched-up repair in place? I trust Youtube lets you do that?Also, that "response" video (lame as it is) is not even shown to regular viewers of his channel. So shouldn't he at least edit his text commentary for the original video, acknowledge that he rushed into this project and should have approached it differently, or make some similar statement? Now the video just sits there as a testament to his stubbornness.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 08:40:03 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on October 03, 2020, 08:11:30 amHis attitude, rightly imo, is that after a day or two commenters dry up on a video but in this one case, people coming in days later with nothing to offer but shit talk.For those who are a bit put off by the comments being turned off: What were they going to say in the comments anyway? Nothing profane, surely. He said that kids view the channel and the only rare case of deleting comments is when that are too saucy for young audience.When he had hundreds of morons showing up with only one type of message to deliver, the right thing to do is shut down the comments.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 09:40:19 am
content: Ed, you don't seem to have addressed either of the two points I made in my prior post:There's a better way to deal with only the abusive comments, andthere's a better way to deal with the botched repair, by owning up to the fact that it was botched.The way 8-Bit Guy just goes "oops, that didn't work; so let's mess things up even further" in the video, and then does not offer any comment or perspective in hindsight, comes across as just plain arrogant.But obviously it is 8-Bit Guy's decision how he wants to deal with this, and it ishisreputation and online personality on the line. None of us can make any "demands" here, only offer observations or suggestions.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2020, 10:28:01 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on October 03, 2020, 09:40:19 am1, I thought I did address it. He said that the comments were too many in number to cope with. And more importantly too many were coming from those who really didn't care about the video.2, From his perspective, the repair goal was to get something to appear on the screen. Keeping the machines in pristine condition wasn't the goal. The computers sat around unopened for 38? years. In that time, nobody has ever considered them to have any value. They did spend nearly 4 decades in an un-airconditioned warehouse in Texas.They weren't historically significant, but they are now!

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:52:04 am
content: This guy open-carries assault rifles to the grocery store - expecting a good response to negative comments on a YouTube video is perhaps misunderstanding how rational he is!https://twitter.com/RealTimeKodi/status/1309886976837980161

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 07:08:05 pm
content: Old news, we know.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 09:13:20 pm
content: I have known many otherwise rational people that have (IMHO) rather irrational beliefs/approaches to political activism. I would not necessarily make assumptions based on that. Carrying rifles in the supermarket strikes me as idiotic and counterproductive but so does standing in the street blocking traffic or shouting catchy slogans through megaphones and generally harassing or inconveniencing innocent bystanders or passing feel-good laws that don't actually accomplish anything of substance. All I can do to stay sane is accept that fact that most people in general are not particularly rational or logical creatures.

author: VooDust
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 09:15:29 pm
content: Quote from: stevelup on January 10, 2021, 10:52:04 amSeeing this makes me realize how much I've grown up and that makes me happy.