It's been a while since I designed any PCBs, I used to use eagle, what now? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2021, 08:07:44 am
content: Hey all, so it's been quite a while since I designed any circuit boards, I'm very much a beginner to it, but I used to use eagle cad, and I enjoyed it though it had some quirks, and for board layout I really wouldn't mind some better CAD like features for aligning things and designing the board. Eagle was always a little iffy when it came to that, as well as being able to drop a library file and then have to annoyingly go find it again.It was super easy to find libraries for eagle however but I'm sure other programs have a similar number of options.So, since I'm looking to get back into this for a couple projects, but I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars or really a yearly subscription, what should I look at trying out? I'm sure there are much more modern programs out there that are more user friendly.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2021, 08:14:55 am
content: If you just want to do hobby stuff and don't care about storing your PCB files on the cloud you could try CircuitMaker.https://circuitmaker.comIt's basically a cutdown version of Altium Designer and is free for open source/hardware stuffThey also have CircuitStudio which is not free (one off $495) and sits somewhere between the CircuitMaker (free) and full Altium Designer (~$4000 a year)Another option is KiCad (free)https://www.kicad.org/Check out this list on eevblog wikihttps://www.eevblog.com/wiki/index.php?title=PCB_CAD_programsFor library parts have a look atwww.snapeda.com(Note, The prices it shows are just current market price for the IC/part, not a price for the library part, that's a free download)

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 12:56:08 pm
content: A lot of the YouTube channel guys are using EasyEDA that is connected to a China pcb house and a couple parts houses. I like to etch my own boards, at least the simpler ones, and wanted a bit more freedom. I recently started learning Dip Trace. They have a free non-commercial version that has plenty of options, but there is still a good bit to learn. I used to make my art files in CorelDraw but that is just a cad like program for the graphic arts and has no automated pcb features. If you already know some pcb software you may find Dip Trace easier to learn that I have. EEVBlog has a full subsection devoted to the various software packages.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 01:06:57 pm
content: eagle is not dead.i like diptrace also

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 01:18:34 pm
content: Eagle was popular many years ago. Now it's Kicad, free and open source.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 02:33:01 pm
content: I've been using KiCad lately, and like it a lot.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 06:38:27 pm
content: Another vote for KiCad here.To give you some Idea of what you can do with it, have a look at:https://www.kicad.org/made-with-kicad/

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 07:03:03 pm
content: And a vote forDipTrace.

author: mindcrime
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 07:34:24 pm
content: I'm an F/OSS ideologue, so it's KiCAD for me. I'm sure some of the other choices are fine as far as that goes, but I prefer sticking to open software, nor proprietary crap.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 08:47:15 pm
content: I haven't used Eagle in over a decade. I remember it had a horrid user interface, like something that was designed by aliens and made to be intentionally difficult to use. As soon as I tried Diptrace I switched to it immediately. The interface worked just as you would expect a Windows program to work. I never had to look at any of the instructions until I needed to create a new part from scratch. KiCAD should be okay, I've just never tried it and can't really comment. I know it's pretty popular.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 08:54:48 pm
content: Another vote for KiCad here.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 09:07:22 pm
content: KiCad v5 started to become quite good IMHO. I have spun a few boards (after several years of inactivity) and it did a good job. Sure, it may lack a feature here and there and productivity might not be perfect, but it works quite well for the small off jobs.My background is with Orcad (ancient DOS versions), Protel (98, 99SE), Altium and Orcad again (a much more modern version), with several years of gaps between them.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 09:08:33 pm
content: I have also switched from Eagle (7.x) to KiCad half a year ago. Had used Eagle for 10 years or so; hobbyist use only.Some things are much better in KiCad, e.g. the semi-automated router: nice dragging of the traces with optional push & shove functionality, automatically respecting your PCB design rules.Some aspects of KiCad are really awkward. My main beef is that schematics entry and PCB layout were written by separate teams, and apparently teams who were not on speaking terms: Different operating logic for selecting stuff and triggering an action; different keyboard shortcuts for equivalent functionality -- it's quite absurd actually. One gets used to it to some extent, but I still struggle when I go back to making changes in the schematic after having worked on the layout for a day or two, and vice versa.My main reason for selecting KiCad is that I don't want to end up getting locked in by a commercial vendor again, as happened to me with Eagle. Be it DipTrace, Altium or whoever -- who knows when they will change their sales model, or get bought by someone who does? I trust that this won't happen with KiCad. And it has gotten better over time. I hear that the upcoming v6 will even unify schematics and layout entry some more...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 10:13:48 pm
content: KiCAD is the way to go IMHO, there is very little reason for a hobbyist to look anywhere else, it's the future of the free/low cost end.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2021, 11:14:10 pm
content: Huge numbers of people have moved from Eagle to KiCAD.As for usability, that's kinda a personal thing.And there are various cloudy type packages like Altium CircuitMaker.Altium have CircuitStudio if you want a more affordable way into the Altium eco-system.I'd pick either KiCAD or some flavour of Altium. Altium will be potentially better for your resume if that's important.

author: JustMeHere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 12:26:06 am
content: Made the switch from Eagle to KiCad.There are a few differences. It didn't take long to get used to them. Definitely watch a tutorial. KiCad programs are more independent of each other. So you have to transfer data between the schematic editor (Eschema) and the layout program (Pcbnew) by clicking some buttons. Export nets. Import nets. Assign footprints.

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 12:38:37 am
content: Quote from: JustMeHere on June 09, 2021, 12:26:06 amUse Update PCB (F8).

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 05:36:47 am
content: Quote from: JustMeHere on June 09, 2021, 12:26:06 amIt is actually simpler than that in the current KiCad version. Assign your footprints to symbols right in the schematic editor; then it's a single button click in the layout program to "update PCB from schematic". No explicit export/import of netlists needed.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 06:15:27 am
content: I'm using CircuitStudio - a stripped down version of Altium Designer. Works well, has nice features. I've also looked into KiCAD, seems very usable.Quote from: perieanuo on June 08, 2021, 01:06:57 pmIt's mandatory on the cloud, has a subscription payment model, so it may as well be dead.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 06:37:19 am
content: I am surprised that nobody mentioned Horizon EDA. The author is active here.https://horizon-eda.org

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 10:13:54 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on June 09, 2021, 06:37:19 amYep. The Author. I think it is a still a one man show after many years, without a sizeable community. That may be why nobody mentioned it.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2021, 02:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 09, 2021, 05:36:47 amAnd it's simpler than that if you include the reference to the footprint in the component -- no need to assign a footprint when you place the part on the schematic, it's already there. I have my own component and footprint libraries, that include all the components I have used in my KiCad designs. This ends up being much easier than constantly searching for the correct symbol / footprint from the huge KiCad and vendor-supplied libraries -- once I find or build the component I need I save it to my custom library.

author: Calvin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 04:59:27 am
content: Hi,also went the way from eagle that I used 10y+ to KiCAD.Did curse soem times at the begining, but learning curve is steep, not at least thanks to many tutorial vids on Youtube.As mentioned before there are some odds you have to learn but when you got familiar it is uite easy to use.What I like about KiCaD is that You can generate own symbols and models quite easy, and one can find a lot of models by the big vendors or from third parties online.Generating a panel is easy ... just copy and paste. Panelizing was alot more complex in Eagle.Interfacing with FreeCAD mechanical CAD program, which is also free.PCB-makers are increasingly offering direct upload of KiCAD files for online prices calculation.The 3D view and step. export are really helpful also.What I don´t like -or haven´t found out yet- is that if you delete a part in the schematics it doesn´t delete the device in the PCB (is that forward-back-annotation?)So far I´m quite happy with KiCADjauuCalvin

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 05:12:23 am
content: Quote from: Calvin on June 10, 2021, 04:59:27 amUpdate PCB (F8) (but note the options).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 06:15:49 am
content: I'd be curious to know what percentage of Eagle users stayed with it. From what I've seen I would guess at least 80% of them either dropped it or stuck with an old version but possibly they've gained a few others. It was mostly popular in the maker community and I can't imagine many of those would go for subscription software, kinda goes against the whole maker/open source culture. I don't think it will ever compete against Altium and Orcad with the big guys, even if it managed to get on par in capability it lacks the brand image.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 10:53:55 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 10, 2021, 06:15:49 amOur perception is probably a bit biased by whom we see (and don't see) in forums, blogs etc.. I would assume they also have their share of customers in smaller businesses and academic labs/workshops, for example. But reservations against subscription models with their recurring costs and the dependency on the vendor's commitment to the product may apply in those sectors as well.I would assume that Autodesk never intended to compete with high-end stand-alone PCB CAD systems like Altium, but rather to combine Eagle with their mechanical CAD for an integrated solution. From their perspective it seems entirely logical to discontinue Eagle as a stand-alone product and focus on Fusion only.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 01:23:16 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 10, 2021, 06:15:49 amWith apologies to The Castle, Eagle just doesn't have "the vibe" any more. You almost hear nothing about it, and everyone has shifted to talking about KiCAD which seems to have become the go-to cheap/free PCB tool now. A combination of KiCAD getting better and Eagle moving to the subscription model. Not that Eagle was every cheap anyway, if you wanted two components on a single sided board larger than 150mm or whatever it was, it was like $1000 please.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 03:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 10, 2021, 01:23:16 pmIt was $1640 for the full unlimited package.I paid for the unlimited package and upgrades from 2000 until the autodesk takeover. And I don't think CadSoft charged enough for the high end. They didn't develop professional features (e.g., BOM management, push and shove, etc.) to keep parity with other packages. Near the end, new feature releases were incomplete and trickled to a halt.I think they became overly focused on the maker and hobbyist market, which didn't bring in enough money (none?) to sustain meaningful development.As a professional user, I can say for myself I would have gladly paid more for eagle to avoid having to eat the cost and time to re-trench in another tool (which would be Kicad, at this point, because of the autodesk licensing issues and my Linux requirement).

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 03:43:27 pm
content: All of these comments overlook using your old Eagle SW, or at least a pre-subscription copy. If you are a very casual user this may be a good option since you already know Eagle.If you are going to switch, I agree, KiCad is the choice of the day.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 04:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 10, 2021, 03:43:27 pmI'm not sure what I overlooked. Yes, I do continue to heavily use Eagle 7.x, which is pre-rental. It's a question of the pain threshold encountered in every design from not having modern features.I'm just saying that if Eagle charged more and kept better parity with the industry, I think they could have continued being successful on their own. Who knows.

author: eplpwr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 04:21:31 pm
content: I have a license for EAGLE 7.7 ultimate for all platforms. I've looked at Kicad and done some learning projects. A habit-forming feature of EAGLE is the ease to go back and forth between schematic and PCB. From my understanding this will also be greatly improved in KiCad v6, thus I am still using EAGLE and waiting for KiCad v6 before making a change of my primary EDA S/W.Funny thing, I found this forum when searching for other peoples opinion on how Autodesk acted when taking over EAGLE - most forum members opinions resonated with mine (subscription? no way!).

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 05:11:41 pm
content: Yes, the subscription model in general is not attractive to me. I used to own the Microsoft Office Suite, Photoshop, and a few others, and I would pay for the occasional upgrade. When these went to a subscription model I switched to OpenOffice and Paint.Net. I occasionally used Eagle when collaborating with others on projects, but now we've all shifted to KiCad. Of course, these free options didn't used to exist, and it's taken a while for them to develop the features and stability that I want (I played with a *very* early version of KiCad and quickly walked away). It's not really about the subscription cost, it's more about loss of control (actual or perceived), and of course the fact that good alternatives exist.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 05:22:33 pm
content: I refuse to rent software on principal, but the Eagle debacle was so much worse by the fact that they outright lied and said they had no plans to make it subscription mere months before doing exactly that. There is NO WAY they just decided on a whim to change their mind and make it subscription, that was the plan from the very start.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 07:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on June 09, 2021, 06:37:19 amNever heard of it before but it looks pretty neat! I will have to check it out!

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2021, 08:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 09, 2021, 05:36:47 amYou don't even have to assign the footprints in the schematic editor. When you create your schematic symbols, include the footprint reference in it. (Do that work once.) Then every instance of that symbol in your schematic will result in the correct footprint on your board. BTW, this capability has existedfor yearsin Kicad.You are correct about how the user no longer needs the explicit netlist export step to go from schematic to layout.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2021, 09:23:17 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on June 10, 2021, 08:57:15 pmThat is correct, of course, and has also been pointed out by fourfathom a few posts back. When I needed to create new symbols myself, I have typically assigned footprints to them. But the large majority of the symbols I place are from KiCad's standard library which -- for parts which come in different packages -- does not have footprints pre-assigned.If you regularly (in multiple designs) use a part from the standard library in a specific package, it probably makes sense to create your own version in a personal library and pre-assign the desired footprint. But to simply use one part repeatedly in a given design, I am too lazy to do that. I assign the footprint the first time I place the part; then create further instances by copying the first part rather than adding it again from the library.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2021, 01:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on June 10, 2021, 07:21:06 pmMake sure you read the horizon thread here on the forum. I think there are two of them. Horizon is truly different to e.g. KiCad. The author has a clear vision how the SW should look and work. I need to investigate this SW also more in detail. I really like it is legacy-free and there are examples of boards that look professional. Many alternative CAD packages show PCBs like from 70".

author: AtomicRob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 05:43:41 am
content: I still use Eagle sometimes. But looking at it with a critical eye (as a software engineer by trade) the UX of Eagle is really dated, like this is how software worked decades ago before most computers had the hardware and software capabilities to do better. This thread is definitely motivating me to go look more at some of these other tools...