Glue between superglue and gorilla - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 08:25:25 pm
content: I have the standard gorilla glue which cures with water and expands to 4 times its volume. Although it is extremely strong, because it expands it is quite tricky to use right. I also have an industrial superglue, which does not expand at all, but it cannot fill - it needs to be very thin.Is there a glue as easy to use as the superglue but that would also fill a little?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 08:41:34 pm
content: I've not tried it, but apparently baking soda mixed with superglue is pretty good.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:02:53 pm
content: Epoxy? It doesn't expand, per say, but it does fill.Epoxy Pro Tip: After mixing and applying the epoxy, use a heat gun set at 100c, it will cause the epoxy to become much more viscous, allowing it to run into cracks. Remove the heat and it will set within seconds!

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:17:01 pm
content: also, the difference between $2 shop epoxy and marine grade epoxy is like night and day

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:39:18 pm
content: Zap a Gap. It's just cyanoacrylate, but slightly thicker than the very runny stuff it normally is. It doesn't expand though, it's more suitable for gluing parts that aren't entirely smooth. It's quite popular in the scale modeling scene for gluing stuff like foam and wood.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 10:40:21 pm
content: Can you have epoxy in one part ready to use? The Araldite that I have the screw caps get stuck on the metal tubes, the tubes get twisted and squashed, and basically I have used the glue twice and then the tube breaks...

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:32:01 pm
content: I like this:http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/DP-190-GRAY/3M155868-ND/3864541Otherwise for mechanical use JB Weld also works okay.The 5-minute stuff is too brittle for anything.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:36:55 pm
content: A good hobby store will have thin, medium and thick CA - the medium or thick is generally used for gap filling

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 07:30:05 am
content: Quote from: akis on December 05, 2015, 10:40:21 pmSure you can have epoxy in a single tube, but it'll be solid!Seriously though, I've seen some two part epoxy in the split tube that auto-mixes in the nozzle as you dispense it. Though, seems like a great way to get a clogged nozzle to me. I'll stick to the one tube with twin nozzles type myself.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 08:25:47 am
content: I just bought the JB Weld which is like the previous Araldite set I used to have. Maybe I mixed the caps and that's why they seized. They should be made different diameters like diesel and petrol pump nozzles.Superglue has a small nozzle / applicator so I can just use exactly where I want to as much as I want to. With epoxy you have to mix it first on a sacrificial surface, and then apply it with a spatula - not the same as using a bottle with a thin nozzle. Maybe I could use a disposable syringe if the mix stays liquid for a whie?

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 08:37:56 am
content: Isn't jb weld color coded? I have the regular one, red and black tube and cap.A syringe might work, but the viscocity isn't super low so it might be hard to get it out.I agree preparing epoxy is a bit annoying. You need a disposable surface, a disposable mixer, and a disposable applicator. It's also useless unless you get a very good application. But it does work after the cure time. I broke the tang on my collectors lord of the rings sword by chopping up some branches in the backyard. No access to an oxyacetylene torch so I used jb weld to repair it. I've tried to intentionally break it after the repair as a test, but can't. Still going strong today.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 09:32:47 am
content: Maybe my mind is playing tricks onme, but I seem to remember the caps were black and white and the tubes had mixed colours, and it was not obvious which goes where.What did you mean by "It's also useless unless you get a very good application" ?

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 09:42:11 am
content: Hmm... I also remember something about a black and silver cap... odd... But in any case, I doubt they were the same, and if they are, you could always look to see which cap has the hardener and which has the metal material, or just clean them out.If you read the instructions, it tells you that you need a flat surface and you need to clean the surface before applying. They mention it for a reason. If you do not get good contact between joints, it will not bond. For some versions, you need to apply pressure in the first few minutes. So set a book on the object or hold it for 20 minutes... if you don't, it will create a really bad bond, or not bond at all. If the stars all align, your repair will be successful. For some jobs it will work with ease, for others it just won't work at all and you need to use something else, just my experience using off the shelf epoxy.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 09:49:36 am
content: I had thought the whole purpose of using the epoxy was its space filling properties (therefore good contact NOT required), unlike superglue which seems the more you apply the more chances of never setting it has.

author: Armxnian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:25:31 am
content: Well it depends on what you're trying to bond. Epoxy is a liquid before it hardens, so you can't just "fill"something unless it's a hole. It needs to make good contact with the surface of the object, and other parts of the epoxy. What exactly are you trying to do?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 10:31:40 am
content: Epoxy works both mechanically and chemically. If the surface prep is not done right then you lose the chemical bond it makes with the surface, leaving only the mechanical hold. Smooth surface and there is not much mechanical hold so it fails. The cleaning and prep to remove all oils and loose particles from the surfaces, along with creating a large number of fresh reactive surfaces to chemically bond to, along with making minute furrows for the mechanical bond, is very important.For superglue accelerator works wonders, though here in summer I do not need to bother, as the humidity in the air does a pretty good job in most cases. The thickened superglues, or the baking soda as filler ( lots of thin films bonding at once to fill the gap) do work well, though they can take a fair amount of time to cure. Old superglue that has had the lighter components evaporate out leaving a thick goo also has pretty good gap filling properties.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 12:08:16 pm
content: Never mixing up your Araldite caps isn't rocket science even if you are colour-blind (the caps almost invariably match the background colour on the tube). Simply dispense one component, and replace the cap before dispensing the other component. If the tube nozzle has excess resin/hardener round it or protruding, wipe with a clean paper towel before recapping it or you will have a nasty sticky mess that may make the cap difficult to remove if you leave it for months.None of the tools for epoxy work *NEED* to be disposable. You need a polypropylene mixing tray or cup as epoxy doesn't bond to it so any residue can just be popped off. Uncured epoxy can readily be removed with a mixture of equal parts spirit vinegar, methylated spirits and a dash of dish detergent. followed by a water wash. The acetic acid 'kills' the polymerisation reaction, the alcohol helps dissolve the epoxy, and the detergent helps keep the epoxy from redepositing when you wash it. You *MUST* wash thoroughly and make sure the tools are totally dry without any vinegar smell before reuse. I've got one stippling brush that I've been using for epoxy work over a 10 year period and its bristles are still seperate and flexible.When dealing with difficult to bond metals like aluminium, copper, tin, lead or zinc that tend to form a weak oxide layer on the surface, its advisable to sand and clean as normal then sand the wet epoxy or other adhesive into the surface. Wipe off the excess and the sanding debris leaving a smear of adhesive on the surface and immediately add fresh adhesive and make the joint.This procedure excludes the air from the bond surface, giving you a direct adhesive to metal bond rather than an adhesive to oxide to metal bond. Aluminium and magnesium alloys are the worst for rapid oxidisation, and should always be bonded this way.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:38:41 pm
content: When it comes to glue what I'd like to hear from is someone from Boeing or Airbus. Both of them use large amounts of glue in aircraft manufacture because it's lighter than rivets and they get it right almost every time. So, what's their secret to fixing together two lumps of aluminum using just a thin film of glue?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 04:26:15 pm
content: That is a 2 component epoxy, using a disposable mixing tube on the dispenser to thoroughly blend the 2 parts during the time it leaves the 2 tubes and arrives at the end. This then is applied to a clean oil free surface that has previously had a surface preparation film on it ( the green epoxy paint you see on the inner airframe, older used a yellow Cadmium coat but they moved to a less toxic coat a while ago) and a final prep just prior to the bonding action. This is then held with the rivets till it is cured, the rivets providing the clamping force required on the film of adhesive. IIRC the epoxy has around a 15 minute pot life and cures somewhat during the first 4 hours, but needs 48 hours till it is finally cured, though depending on the actual one in use this can vary considerably, and also can be accelerated with a heat cure.You throw the mixing tube away with each change of tubes, they come as a prepack with the 2 aluminium wall tubes ( depending on the mix ratio different diameters), a screw in holder that holds the tubes in the dispenser then the mixing tube and it's internal labyrinth mixing path to the dispensing nozzle, all in a pack often having a small bottle of solvent, nitrile gloves, lint free swabs and a scotchbrite pad to clean the surface, used for panel rework when you have to remove the panel. The dispenser is also used to apply the windscreen mastic, which is really hard to remove from the metal.Similar to what is done to install a modern windscreen, which is bonded to the car body structure, as it is a part of the passenger compartment rigid frame, and has to absorb impact energy. Audi use it as well to bond body panels, though there they use a jig that holds them in alignment till the heat cure is finished.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 06:59:47 pm
content: QuoteI mix small amounts of epoxy on a small end grain cutting board (sealed with linseed oil) using a small scraper knife/chisel. Also works well on a bit of glass, if you have any handy. Over the years, I have gotten to where I often use every little bit of the epoxy with no waste. After scraping/gathering/using all the epoxy, nothing left to see. Just a wipe down of the board and knife with a paper towel and alcohol. Been using the same tube of red/black JB weld for a decade.It makes quick work of the mixing, too. Smear it down over the board in a microthin layer in one direction. Scrape it up at a 90 degree angle. Repeat a few times.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 07:36:41 pm
content: Depends what you are trying to bond. When working with circuit boards where I need a thin glue, I use Black Max and Tak Pak, both with the accelerator.

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 12:52:14 am
content: You can add micro balloons to a CA glue like superglue that will really help filling gaps.They also have a few that are rubberized and flexible used in the speaker industry that are amazingly strong yet flexible.Superglue or CA glues have come quite a long ways and with a accelerant they are truly time savers.If brute strength is required epoxies are tough to beat and I've seen panel bonding adhesives where the steel or aluminum rips before the metal does.Dont be surprised to see a body shop glue a quarter panel on a car these days instead of weldingThe downside is they are long acting and tend to get pricy and dont like moisture during the curing process.polyurethane based Like gorilla glue and PL construction adhesives can foam up as you've seen but generally are pretty good all purpose glues and are moisture and UV resistant.With These they tend to foam more when moisture is present while curing but it wouldnt hurt to try another brand as they dont all foam like Gorilla do.It all really depends on what your'e trying to accomplish but I tend to use CA with or without 3m micro balloons a lot along with a good old hot glue gun on my electronics stuff the most.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 02:22:05 am
content: If you have time for it to dry, one of the secret aerospace epoxies is the MgO filled Hysol 1C Off White. Ultra low outgassing, and withstanding high temps are its main characteristics. Shelf life is only a year or so, though.Not the strongest in shear, but damn good if used properly.Hour or so to really set, and 24 hours to rock hard.With one additive changed, it goes by the name Torrseal for ultra high vacuum work. I just use the 1C when I need vaccum or laser optics compatability.Does outgas a bit when fluid, after that, nada... A salesman once said that large amounts went to Renton, WA, USA... For wing leading edges on a four engined airliner. While I've never verified said claim, it should make German_EE happy... Henkel Hysol does make aviation epoxies, as well.With care, I use it for insulating HV splices to 30+ KV, alternating layers of 1C, teflon tape, and heat shrink.Steve

author: aroby
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 02:26:58 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on December 06, 2015, 03:38:41 pmI just bought some glue like that from a boat show in Fort Myers, FL. Coincidentally the stand there was German Glue and the guy was German. This stuff is amazing. It is cyanoacrylate and has an accelerator and a filler. He cut a a neoprene O-ring, then glued it in 2 seconds - I couldn't pull it apart. Same with 2 metal nuts - a drop of glue between them and they couldn't be moved.Web site iswww.mabrisystems.com

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 02:35:43 am
content: E6000 is a great glue. It is urethane based. It has become my goto general purpose glue.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 04:13:51 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on December 07, 2015, 02:22:05 amThat is what I have holding my Extech meter's dial together after someone turned it past the dead stop.... Good stuff but not so much for repairing meters....

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 05:37:18 am
content: Epoxy Pro Tip: The caps from a prescription pill bottle make excellent mixing trays for epoxy. Toothpicks also make fantastic disposable stirring implements. After about an hour you can push on the top of the cap while gently flexing it to remove the unused epoxy. (Or, leave the toothpick to set in the unused epoxy and simply pull it out in one go the next day.)A small prescription pill bottle is also the perfect size to hold toothpicks.I love pill bottles, so many uses in the lab... They're great for holding screws when taking things apart, for storing components, for cleaning small parts and hardware (get a big pill bottle, fill with knobs from a scope, add some baking soda, detergent and water and shake), so many uses! I must have a couple of hundred in a box under the workbench.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 04:34:59 pm
content: Yes they are great. I get a new one every month from the pharmacist. I decant all my chemicals like IPA and Acetone into them. Liquid tight and childproof.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 06:03:39 pm
content: I am glueing ceramic tiles 18mm diameter, 2mm thickness, onto a 0.5mm polypropylene holder. The tiles are silvered and then varnished with yacht varnish, two coats. I use superglue to glue them onto the polypropylene. What happens is (a) the holder flexes, as it should, but the ceramic tiles do not, and the superglue is not ideal. Secondly the varnished surface is not smooth, and the superglue is thin and does not fill the spaces properly. It is very important that the glue fills all spaces because the assembly will be immersed in liquid and no liquid should enter in between.My current technique is obviously bad. However the system has been in operation for 6 months and it seems to work.I need three improvements:1) a slightly thicker glue to fill the spaces completely (we are talking about 0.1mm gaps barely visible with magnifying lens).2) a glue dispenser with a 0.5-1mm nozzle to allow me to spread the glue properly without making a mess of the tiles.3) flexible glue to allow the holder to flex, maybe, without coming off (the superglue would crack and come off).I have bought the JB Weld epoxy which may fill the gaps better, but it will not be flexible at all and it will not be easy to dispense.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 06:24:57 pm
content: Very few glues will bond to polypropylene. In fact it is usual to use a polypropylene mixing tub for epoxy work because it is so easy to pop the cured epoxy residue out of the tub and reuse it, and because it is resistant to *ALL* the solvents and dilutants one might need to use.To have any chance of it bonding well you'll need to degrease and flame treat the polypropylene immediately before glueup. Use a resilient glue as the flexing and differential thermal expansion will cause rigid glues like normal superglue or common epoxies to fail. If the tile back surface is porous, you will probably need to paint it with thinned glue and let it dry to seal the surface before bonding.

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 06:52:05 pm
content: You can try weldbond, which looks an awful like ye olde Elmers but is very strong. Its also flexible, which you need. You'll likely need a lot of whatever you use if you want it to fill in completely...Good luck getting anything to stick to polypropylene, though. Rough the crap out of it with sandpaper, but still....

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 06:57:32 pm
content: Its worth doing *ANYTHING* you can to replace the polypropylene backing with something more suitable. ABS would be OK. GRP would be excellent.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 07:53:29 pm
content: Polystyrene. I just looked it up. It is polystyrene. It glues well.What glues *much* better was PETg but at 0.5mm it was too stiff, did not flex as much as I'd like it to. The superglue bond however was extremely strong. I could not find 0.3mm PETg that might do the trick.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 08:01:28 pm
content: In that case, Alcohol wipe, sand and hoover the backing plastic then use a wet grab polyurethane construction adhesive. Scrape a thin smear over both the tiles and the plastic then bed each tile on a dob of the stuff. You will probably need to mask the faces with masking tape or PVC electrical tape to make cleanup of glue oozeout easier.

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 08:12:25 pm
content: Hi German_EE,this guy will fix all your glue needs, I think.https://www.klebstoffbank.de/

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 10:31:35 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on December 07, 2015, 04:34:59 pmYes! I keep a large pill bottle of IPA for cleaning parts I desolder. Drop a handful of transistors, caps, whatever in, let sit for a few minutes, shake, remove and rinse with IPA in a spray bottle.I also make my own DeoxIT mix for cleaning sealed switches. Apply 10 drops of D100 to a small pill bottle halfway filled with 97% IPA, shake, then use a syringe to inject it into the switch. Works great for those ganged switches you find in old HP and Tek gear.Anyway, uh, back to glue...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 04:30:07 am
content: Quote from: timb on December 07, 2015, 10:31:35 pmAre you talking about mixing this with IPA to clean your switches? Seems like they would be sticky?http://www.amazon.com/Surebonder-DT-100-Sticks-All-Temperature-5-Sticks-100/dp/B003JZII34/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&qid=1449584872&sr=8-36&keywords=d100

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 05:22:15 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 08, 2015, 04:30:07 amHaha, noooo. This is a thread about glue though...Anyway, for those wondering, it's DeoxIT D100, which is 100% DeoxIT contact cleaner. Comes in either little squeeze tubes or nail polish style bottles with a brush. You apply it to contacts or connectors, let it sit a minute (or work the switch a bit) then wipe off the excess.This is opposed to D5, which comes in an aerosol can; it's basically 90% IPA, 5% DeoxIT and 5% other stuff (propellant mainly). The idea is you spray it into semi-sealed switches, work them a bit and let it evaporate. This way you don't have to wipe off the excess, which would be hard to do with a lot of switches that you can't take apart. The IPA also removes grease and other contaminants.Mixing D100 and IPA and injecting it with a syringe is a lot cheaper than buying the spray cans.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:43:07 am
content: Quotethanks

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 05:18:26 pm
content: Quote from: akis on December 07, 2015, 06:03:39 pmYou're definitely working with 2 of the tougher things to bond and want to bond them together,not the easiest task.I did a run of headlight conversions where I had a similar problem and needed to glue a glass lens to a plastic reflector and housing.Superglue's and epoxies worked but not for long and would usually separate from the glass as soon as it got cold.A few of the epoxies actually held strong enough to break the glass or plastic during testing when we put them in the freezerWe ended up going with a hot glue from Wisdom called Clearbond .If you where working with something larger than .5mm I'd highly recommend giving it a try.They'll even send free samples sometimes.I think a rubberized CA like thishttp://www.gluguru.com/categories/adhesives/cyanoacrylates.aspxor similar one from Henkel will work for you.They are a little thicker then normal Superglue and will give you the flexibility you need between the different materials.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 08:22:42 pm
content: Fortile to tiletile to glassglass to glassporcelain to porcelainor to stop rust in a cast iron tube (by grinding to bare metal and coating)http://www.amazon.com/Sashco-13010-Sealants-Adhesive-10-5-Ounce/dp/B01435NGYO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1449640517&sr=8-2&keywords=lexelThis stuff has saved me 10s of thousands. I used it to make repairs by gluing tiles on top of tiles. It does not get hard.The place where I stopped the rust feels like plastic when I touch it.It was just meant to be a temp fix until I could figure out what to do. The spot is about 2 inches in diameter. Now it is going on 5 years now and no rust (this is at the top edge of the tub). I used the clear stuff so I can still see the bare metal.The tile repair is where there were 1 inch tiles that came loose and the wall behind them rotted out. I cleaned out the rot and loose tiles filled the gap with this stuff and put larger (6x6) tiles on top starting where there were good 1 inch tiles. Some places I glued 6x6 to each other over the 1 inch tiles. So in some places there is a 3 layer of tiles. The edges of the 6x6 were glued to the tub.Been ok for over 5 years now and expect it to last my lifetime.