My (first) impressions on the new Propeller 2 (prototype) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 11:50:31 pm
content: Hi all,Yesterday I've released a post on my blog, announcing the future possible release of the yet little known Propeller 2, from Parallax. Here (Google translation to your preferred language required):http://www.bloguetronica.com/2019/05/o-novo-micro-controlador-da-parallax.htmlBeing a prototype, there are some issues that need to be solved. But I must say I was quite impressed with the speed. I've ran a prime number calculation test with it, and I've noticed that it is about eight times as fast. The smart pin idea is also briliant. basically, any pin can accept analog, as well as digital signals. DACs and ADCs are included, and this micro also supports USB. And it also has interrupts, unlike the original Propeller.I often don't do PR for companies, but Chip Gracey and the Parallax team have been doing a great job. You've got to love when small companies do great things. It reminds me of the Avro Arrow story.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 12:12:25 am
content: Interesting. The P2 has been vaporware for something like seven years now? I'm glad to see some progress, but wonder how it can compete with the ARM juggernaut, especially as vendors start releasing multicore parts (like the Sony Spresense: six Cortex-M4 cores plus a Cortex-M0+ core).

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 12:25:34 am
content: I wouldn't call it vaporware, although the gestation has been too long and it will be released a bit late. There will be a new batch of 2400 chips in late August, and I hope they can be acquired via the Parallax shop. These chips promise lower power consumption and higher clock speeds. Probably, the official release for the public will be in December.Mind that the P2 is aimed for the MCU market, while ARMs are full fledged CPUs. Even though, it can run a simple OS, can be easily programmed, and it is an interesting solution for DSP and DDS stuff. The CORDIC solver does Goertzel and rotations. I already have some ideas for it.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 12:31:57 am
content: Quote from: bloguetronica on May 31, 2019, 12:25:34 amIf I can't order one today, on Digikey, it's vaporware.QuoteThe ARM Cortex-M4, like the ones in the Sony Spresense, is most definitely an MCU.

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 12:45:39 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on May 31, 2019, 12:31:57 amSee the photo attached. It is real.Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on May 31, 2019, 12:31:57 amYou are right there. I was confusing with those ARM CPUs used in mobile applications. Anyway, P2 is not aimed at the super fast, bleading edge market, although it can reach clock speeds up to 350MHz. Add the fact that many instructions only take one clock cycle and not four like the P1. So, I guess the main goal for now is to obliterate the P1.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 01:46:43 am
content: Oh, I have no doubt it's real--just that you can't buy production parts. In that sense it's vaporware.I'm somewhat disappointed by the current design of the P2. There's still only eight cogs and there's still a very restrictive limit on the amount of RAM private to each cog (I think it's 4K on the P2). I would have liked to see 16 cogs and see the removal of the cog private RAM limitation (although that would probably require making it a 64-bit processor rather than a 32-bit processor).

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 02:00:56 am
content: I was expecting 16 cogs too. However, if I recall correctly, it was not possible to fit both the 16 cogs and the smart pins. Anyway, the good thing about that is that the smart pins are pretty autonomous and don't need frequent polling from the cogs to do blink functions. There are also DACs and ADCs on every pin. I don't know if a 16-cog MCU without smart pins is in the works, anyway.About the local cog RAM, it is twice the size when compared to the P1. But the best thing is that the shared RAM is 512KB. The main limitation they are having now is in the ROM. They are having a hard time fitting TAQOZ and the Prop Monitor in there, but they are getting it.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 02:46:30 pm
content: Quote from: bloguetronica on May 31, 2019, 02:00:56 amWhile it's nice to have ADC/DAC capability on every pin, I think that's overkill for the vast majority of designs. I think a better compromise would be to limit the number of smart pins to perhaps 16 and devote the space savings to more cogs.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 03:47:43 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on May 31, 2019, 02:46:30 pmIs it actually an ADC and DAC on each pin or just analog muxing? The latter doesn't take much area and it is already very common for microcontrollers to have a large number of analog I/O pins.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 07:52:21 pm
content: 96 pin TQFP and I'm seeing 32 Vcc pins? that seems wild. Maybe its just because its an eng sample though.Some more info here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gIKAfx5slcwjrAvHnbn5VNReY2SbQxtYkgO8cIzjyyY/edit#heading=h.6frgvwkw4djohttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1UnelI6fpVPHFISQ9vpLzOVa8oUghxpI6UpkXVsYgBEQ/edit

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 08:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on May 31, 2019, 02:46:30 pmI would buy a 16-cog version without smart pins. There is the idea of selling variants without smart pins being discussed, so it would make sense.Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 31, 2019, 03:47:43 pmAs I interpret it, it is a DAC and an ADC per pin. Yes, that took much area, and that is why they couldn't fit 16 cogs in there. Here is the datashort:https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlbr1kcet47aowo/P2%20shortform.pdf?dl=0Quote from: thm_w on May 31, 2019, 07:52:21 pmThe pinout for that variant is pretty much set in stone. The extra Vccio pins allow you to disconnect pin banks if you are not using them. In the development board, they give you the option of switching between the general 3.3V DC-DC converter and a linear regulator for each of the 8 banks. That detail makes a lot of difference in audio applications.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 10:48:11 pm
content: It's starting to look like a competitor to Cypress PSoC.

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 11:19:56 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 31, 2019, 10:48:11 pmIt might be, with the advantage that the tools are available for Linux too and are not as obscure. However, the PSoC seems to be more customizable.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: rgarito
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 04:47:43 am
content: In here, they mention 16 cogs as a possibility:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UnelI6fpVPHFISQ9vpLzOVa8oUghxpI6UpkXVsYgBEQ/editThe Propeller 2 is a microcontroller containing 1, 2, 4, 8, or 16 identical 32-bit processors called “cogs”, which connect to a common “hub”. The hub provides a shared RAM, a CORDIC math solver, and housekeeping facilities. The architecture supports up to 64 smart I/O pins, each capable of many autonomous analog and digital functions.