CCTV (home) options, especially ones without any subscriptions or cloud use - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 07:30:35 pm
content: I'm intending on getting new CCTV equipment. Ideally set up and installed by me (DIY), but I'm not ruling out getting professional installers.What I already have (no longer set up, anyway) is too old, to consider useful these days (low res analogue), and has fallen out of use. So in real terms, you can consider me starting from scratch, but I do have some experience with older CCTV stuff, I use to use a fair bit.I've spent sometime researching this, recently. But I've been horrified, by the huge abundance, of apparently rather cheap (e.g. £20/$20), CCTV cameras on e.g. Amazon. But which either need a paid monthly subscription, or claim they don't, yet reading the reviews seems to indicate, that if you don't get the optional subscription, the camera mysteriously keeps on conking out, after perhaps 3 months, unless you start a paid subscription.Why don't I like the idea of subscriptions and/or cloud based systems (no need to read this paragraph for many, who already know).Because if it's £10/$10 a month and I use the cameras for 8 or so years, it would come to an extra £1000/$1000.Also, the subscriptions price, could suddenly go up, perhaps dramatically, in later months/years, potentially disrupting a perfectly nicely working CCTV system.Worse still, they could decide to stop the service, entirely and there are possible privacy concerns, having the video/audio feeds going to some cloud services, which might be able to see lots of stuff, both outdoors and indoors, where you live.One apparent solution, is these 4 or 8 camera capable kits, a hard disk of perhaps 1TB, which come with perhaps 4 cameras and long leads, as well as the main control box/unit. Which doesn't need any subscriptions/internet etc.Another is to get a PI Zero (as many as needed), its CCTV camera case (I'm not sure how weather proof it is, though) plus a suitable camera module for it, and power supply. The software for such an adventure, seems to be rather dated now (but that is not necessarily a show stopper).I'm open to various budgets, but like the idea of some kind of camera which can go close to a window (with any IR night vision, being disabled to avoid it glowing against the window), with internal SD card (which can be a very heavy duty (extreme), high endurance card (or better), meant for such applications), I like the idea of it supporting some kind of remote local web (IP) access, perhaps recording a continuous week or so, of stuff. But accept that external cameras (there is probably going to be other work, where I am, where such cameras might be, so now is probably not a good time for external ones), either now or in the future, may well be necessary.I also fancy ESP32 based cameras, perhaps outside, on batteries, which only activate, when there are people (possible intruders), nearby. But I'm not sure how realistic (i.e. are they toys/hobbyist-messing-around or professional tools).Ideally I want to let this thread be a general CCTV one, so if you want to discuss various options (even if they don't suit me), or controversies over these subscriptions/cloud based services, etc. That is fine, with me.Examples (amazon links not put in, as they were a rather large number of lines of numbers and might not work, if people read this thread in years to come):(following probably needs a subscription and even if it claims it doesn't, I suspect reviews on this or similar cameras, claiming it really needs one, even if they claim it doesn't, seem to be genuine reviews)Tapo 2K Security Camera Outdoor, 360° PTZ WiFi Camera, IP65 Weatherproof CCTV for Home Security, Motion Tracking, Full-Colour Night Vision, Cloud&Local Storage,Works With Alexa&Google Home(Tapo C510W) for around Limited time deal£46.99 with 33 percent savings -33%I fancy PTZ (a remotely positional camera, Pan/Tilt/Zoom), especially for outside, as it avoids multiple trips up a ladder, making fine adjustments. But it is by no means an essential requirement, especially for any indoor use ones.The following is an example of a 4 camera set (which can accept 8 cameras, if you want), and seems to not need any subscriptions or internet.ANNKE 8 Channel Outdoor Security CCTV Camera System with Smart Human & Vehicle Detection, 3K Lite H.265+ DVR with 1TB Hard Drive and 4x 1080P Home Security Cameras, Email & APP Alert with Images-E200 £169.99In summary:I DON'T want any subscriptions and/or (other peoples) cloud/servers, to be involved. Regardless of how cheap the cameras seem to be.I.e. It is like buying an inkjet printer for £10/$10, or a very cheap, high capability projector. But new ink cartridges (with a tiny capacity), cost £50/$50 each, or new projector bulbs, are £500/$500 and don't last that long, etc.If I've missed any information out, it could be, because I'm both open to a very wide range of possible solutions, and perhaps need to experiment and develop the CCTV system, over coming months and years. E.g. AI detection of object types, sounds both fun/interesting but potentially problematic if it doesn't work reliably. E.g. Too many false alarm alerts.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 07:45:36 pm
content: I use a Foscam camera + Qnap NAS for this purpose. No subscription needed.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:01:46 pm
content: I use 3 Annke cameras of different types, powered by PoE, on their own LAN firewalled off from the Internet and anything else, controlled by Security Spy software running on a Mac Mini. This does motion detection and recording, and allows me to access real time camera feeds and recordings from the companion iPhone app, connecting to the router/firewall using a VPN

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:44:19 pm
content: I use analog Annke cameras, they go up to 4K now (low frame rates but it's CCTV so you rarely care.) The Annke DVR has an ethernet port on it which exposes some RTSP streams to my Home Assistant interface on a Pi 3, the Pi then makes them accessible anywhere in the world. You have to be a little bit keen to set something like this up, I have my own SSL certificate, DuckDNS domain (free), the HA instance runs in a Docker container, and the method for exposing the streams from the DVR is not particularly well documented (poorly translated pages on the Annke website), but it does work very well.I do have a lot of other things integrated into Home Assistant too so it made some sense for me, for instance my smart heating system, car charging, and all the Zigbee smart devices. All on my own personal service, which I own the infrastructure to, and with a monthly subscription cost of nil.I modified the DVR to add an internal lead acid battery which gives it 30 minutes of runtime in the event of a power cut. Not a perfect solution as the HDD dies before the DVR but avoids having the DVR go offline for short outages. It back-powers the cameras through the power connector; the 12V power supply was 'tweaked' a little to increase the output to 13.5V keeping the lead acid battery in float charge.(The Ring camera is there too, but it only updates when motion is detected in its small zone. Eliminating it is a longer term goal, but the OH is a fan, so it's staying for now.)

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:54:33 pm
content: Yes, I have several IP cams on the LAN and an NVR recording 24/7. these days that is simple and inexpensive.I would avoid WIFI as unreliable and easy to interfere with.I do not have any memory cards on the cameras. Just the NVR which I put together myself.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 12:52:02 am
content: For several years, I've been using several outdoor cameras that work on wired ethernet (no WiFi). Though they communicate via ethernet, and can be set up to use cloud storage, I have kept mine strictly on my home's LAN. I've set up rules on my firewall to ensure that they don't communicate outside my LAN, and I've verified that the cameras have never attempted to communicate to the outside world. They detect motion, and when motion is detected, they push video to a NFS mounted drive on a computer on my home network, which has a huge disk available. The cameras also have internal SD cards, which will capture data if the copy to the home computer fails, but that doesn't happen often. I supply power via the ethernet cable (POE), but a 12V barrel connector can be used instead. The cameras I use are Amcrest model IP5M-B1186EW-28MM. Around $60 USD.Here's a sample image, straight from the camera. It's about 7.5Mb, and not very exciting, so don't download if not interested. It gives an idea of what the 2592 x 1944 resolution lets you see -- pretty reasonable, but not sufficient to read the license plates on any of the cars in that particular scene.https://ag6qr.net/priv/NSoRgZ4o61m6bdzq5HuZ/AmcrestSample.pngThey have a "night vision" mode with a built-in infrared light source.There's an extensive set of configurable options available via their web interface. If you have a router/firewall set up with NAT, that web interface should only be available from your internal network, and not exposed to the outside world.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 06:30:38 am
content: Thanks (everyone), for the nice and interesting responses (so far). Also, thanks for warning me about using wireless, as I was originally seriously considering doing just that.I'm disappointed (not with anyone here, and I suspected it was going to be the case), that Raspberry PI Zeros, ESP32's etc, plus suitable camera modules. Although very abundant (now) and cheap, small and very low power consumption. Are not going to be a (cheap, quick and very lazy) way of doing this.I suppose, now I think about it. That the user base here (in many cases), can lend itself to setting up network connections, messing around with IP addresses, using Linux (if the applicable camera/CCTV solution needs it, such as with the PI Zeros) where necessary, and is happy to mess around with many complicated (to 'normal' non-electronics/engineering people), wiring and connection types.Hence the apparent growth in these CCTV subscription/app(phone)/cloud(server really), solutions, somewhat flooding the current market.I.e. The average user doesn't even necessarily know what an IP address is, let alone know how to setup a local network, with (if necessary) NAS/Linux/other server(s) etc.Also, (typically) understand why extreme/high-endurance SD cards are recommended, if continuously recording video, without using a NAS or similar.I've currently got an ancient (never part of my previous setup, just added as a dummy/deterrent one) camera, setup outside, (not in use), but which can 'see' perhaps 80% or 90% (i.e. main front view, essentially sole/primary entry/exit points) of what I need (for security). Along with preexisting wall fixings, hole in wall for cabling and reasonable access to mains power, inside. Plus room to setup equipment, in a safe and dry environment.But it could take 4 or more cameras in total (for front/back (possibly inside in addition) and parts the other cameras can't see, because of where they would be), if I try and reach nearer 100% coverage (in other areas, but intruders would usually use the main exit/entry point, in theory), so I plan to leave that for later.I don't really like working at heights. So getting a professional company, to set up multiple, high up cameras, may be what I end up doing, later.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 07:15:55 am
content: Some more random thoughts. Cameras , NVR, etc are cheap enough that you can afford to just buy a bunch of things and start playing around. Some people seem to be able to make a plan beforehand and then carry it out but I am not one of them so I have changed camera locations, types, etc. Had to replace one camera which was acting erratically etc.Of course, these days IP is the only way to go. Forget analog.All my cameras are outside, none inside the house. Motion detection outside is worthless. It will probably work in a completely closed room with windows closed. Otherwise it is just being triggered all the time by anything moving or changes in light, animals, wind, clouds, the reflection of cars, etc. I would forget about motion detection outdoors in general. My cameras are older but maybe today you can get cameras intelligent enough to recognize persons or something and would not be falsely triggered, or not as often.I have some cameras with night vision. This means they have IR light and they remove a filter at night. Or some have two separate lenses and sensors. The night part is very sensitive so it has a filter during daytime or the sensor would just be overwhelmed.Regarding night vision, it will only work up to a short distance of, say 5 m. You can buy IR "illuminators" which will extend the range, say 10 m, but I do not think it is practical at greater distance. I have an IR night vision cam looking at the front gate which is perhaps 5 or 6 m from the house. It is also helped by some street lights. In the back the fence is like 12 m away and I have installed an additional illuminator. And I have a third camera looking into the longer distance of the yard, say 15 - 20 m, and even though it does have night vision I have disabled it because it does not work so far. I had a very cheap non-IR camera there but it started going wonky and I replaced it with this one. If you place the cameras where you can access them easily then you can replace them, repair them, re-aim them easily. If you put them somewhere where only an expensive guy can get to them then your options are more limited. My house has balconies in the upper level and this is easy. Also, I have some cameras that are for indoor use but under the roof eaves and well protected they have lasted for many years already. If at all possible I would recommend placing the cameras where you can access them. One of my cameras is just inside a window.Some have the POE. Just a couple of connectors at both ends which "inject" the power into the Ethernet cable.If you build your own NVR recorder make sure you get a video grade HDD because it will be working 24/7 with a lot of wear and tear. I suppose you could be tempted to use any old disk but it might fail pretty soon. I record everything 24/7. All in my NVR, no cloud for me.Next to my computer screens I have a screen where I can see all the security cameras. Without getting up from my chair I can see who is at the front gate, I can see the neighborhood cats strolling and sometimes fighting. I am just used to seeing all around the house from here.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 07:18:29 am
content: To be clearer. Without going into details, there have been worrying incidents either at my (or local to me), homes, recently. Pushing me into speeding up CCTV installation activities. As I've wanted CCTV for a long time, but never really sorted it out.Initially (in the next week or month, or so), I may be installing between 1 and 4 (plus) cameras.0 to 1, external ones, in preexisting fixings etc.0 to 3, indoor ones, looking at outside views (through windows, with care (i.e. disable the IR LEDs) to avoid nighttime IR LEDs making the images, unwatchable, as it gets reflected back by the window).Plus (if possible/practicable) some kind of outdoor ESP32/PI-Zero, with batteries (wires e.g. for power, is an option), with some kind of intruder detection device (e.g. passive IR or microwave radar), to switch it on, when there is activity. To give vision to areas, otherwise hidden from view, by the main camera system. Early indications seem to show, that the ESP32's are not really suitable for this, as they are too limited, memory/software wise, but PI Zeros maybe suitable.If intruder activities in my local area, persist to cause issues, I could be pressured, into getting a professional company to just install a CCTV system (ideally one without any recurring fees, or need for any propitiatory stuff, unique to the installing company, so I'm free to add to it, or change it, myself).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 07:38:48 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 07:15:55 amThanks.You have described similar experiences, that I had, with my original CCTV system(s), from a rather long time ago. Its analogue feed(s), went into a PC card, that accepted the RCA (IIRC) analogue inputs, into digital format, inside the ancient (now) PC. As you said, I had exactly that problem, where the normal HDD, 'broke' (but amazingly worked again, after a big hard reformat of the disk, insisted upon, when claiming under the guarantee, Maxtor IIRC) after a few months of continuous CCTV use.Yes, putting the camera(s), where they can be readily reached, by me (without having to pay big call out charges), is an excellent idea.I did similar to you, and did lots of experimenting. The raw equipment, is relatively cheap, compared to paying for a full scale professional installation, plus possible recurring/subscription/repair charges, over a period of time.Although (as previously stated), I'm reluctant to go too high. I can go high enough to be out of reach, by most intruders, which should do the job.IP cameras, was exactly the direction, I was heading for, from my original research.As you said (and also what I ultimately want), is to be able to see a few applicable views, from a computer monitor and/or TV (which can easily connect to a computer or handle viewing IP, itself), as needed (e.g. sudden unexpected loud noises etc).

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 07:59:51 am
content: I have never found memory cards in the camera useful. I just have an NVR that records everything.I am only interested in seeing what is going on outside, around the house. I want to see any nefarious activity outside. I do not find any use in indoor cameras but if you do install indoor cameras you need to be extra sure they cannot be accessed by hackers from the internet. It's not difficult but it's just one more thing which you can avoid at first in order to keep things simple.You really do not need to know much of anything to set it up. Buy some cameras, NVR, and Ethernet cable as needed. Plug cameras into NVR. You can give the NVR its own monitor, like I have it, or access via LAN with a computer. You then go through the different NVR screens and menus to configure things. It is quite simple.From where I sit I can see all around the house on the screen. There is a speed bump on the road and some trucks make a loud clanging noise when they go over it at cruise speed. then I can just at the screen, which has a 2 - 3 second delay, and see what just made the noise. Or if I hear kids yelling or cats fighting.By law I am not supposed to be recording the street, outside my property, but I do it anyway because nobody knows or cares.if you want to detect intruders do not rely on camera motion detection but better get a dedicated perimeter alarm system as it is much more reliable.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 08:17:12 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 21, 2024, 07:38:48 amRegarding this point let me tell you... When I was younger I climbed like a monkey. I sailed and climbed the rigging of ships with tall masts. Now I am old and very aware of my limitations but I still have no problem getting where I want to go.If you have a long ladder all you have to do is stay it well and it will not move. Tie two lines at the top, one on each side, and secure them well so the top cannot move. Same thing at the bottom. If the ladder is very long and it makes you feel more secure then add stays at the center. Add as many stays as you want until you are 100% sure the ladder will not move no matter what. You can then climb in total confidence but if it makes you feel more secure you can even use a safety harness.This takes time but you are not in a hurry.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 09:19:15 am
content: CCTV sensor must be SONY only. Radar must see presence of body through wood door plus 3m. And at last cloud storage.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 11:36:27 am
content: Even though it has been marginally mentioned I would state more strongly that you should consider any all all cameras insecure, maybe more so the cheap Chinese ones but I would not trust ANY camera and I would assume they all want to phone home and they all have back doors.Keep them on an isolated LAN where they cannot access or be accessed from the Internet.Later you can configure the LAN and router if you want so you can access from the Internet with VPN.My cameras only view the yard, the outside of the house, so this is less of a concern but you should be especially careful if you have any cameras inside the house.I am careful to always have my computer webcams covered when not in use.Do not trust any camera or microphone until you have verified yourself that it is secure.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 12:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 07:15:55 amFrigate's AI motion detection works quite well outdoors.QuoteThe bitrates are pretty low so actually less of a workload than for typical home server duties.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 12:54:56 pm
content: The ‘AI’ motion detection and classification in Security Spy works well. The load on my M2 Mac Mini is negligible, and the storage used is nothing to worry about. There’s no need for a dedicated NVR system any longer, at least not for only a few cameras. The cameras just provide a dumb video feed over Ethernet, I don’t use camera storage or motion detection.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 12:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 21, 2024, 12:34:50 pmI don't even have a home server but I find it difficult to understand that a server would be using the bandwidth of several cameras 24/7.At any rate, it doesn't matter. They make HDD especially for this type of application and a regular, much cheaper, HDD is likely to fail much sooner.I have a WD purple HDD right here which has been going strong 24/7 for almost 12 years now.OTOH I recently had a regular Toshiba HDD fail after only 7.5 years of irregular use in a desktop computer. After only 31000 hours which is 3.5 years of continuous use. And that is just the computer running, not writing to the diskhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/failing-win-xp-hdd/All HDD are not made the same. And I believe SSD are not recommended for NVR.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 01:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on June 21, 2024, 12:54:56 pmI prefer to have a dedicated NVR just to keep things simple. The NVR runs free standing and not depending on anything else. Simple.Over the years that I have had that NVR there I have messed a lot with my computers, changed configurations and computers, etc. I just like the simplicity of having separate things for separate things. Easier to set up, maintain, diagnose, etc.Separate HDD too. I can record over a month of security video in the NVR. I would not want to have the computer have to run 24/7 or have the computer HDD have to deal with that. Just my preference. I suppose other people may prefer other configurations.It also keeps the NVR and the computer on separate LANs for security.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 01:16:27 pm
content: Meanwhile I had a WD purple CCTV-rated HDD that inexplicably failed two months after its warranty expired... The plural of anecdote is not data though.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 05:06:19 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 21, 2024, 12:34:50 pmIMHO it is better to use a low framerate than a low resolution. With high resolution, it will be easier to identify a person. A trick I have learned from a specialist is to mount cameras in a way they look up. That way even when people wear hats, caps or hoodies their faces are likely to be well visible.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 06:59:27 pm
content: I went for IP cameras plus a Ubiquity Dream Machine as that is a NVR plus firewall etc. I have a few Ubiquity access points to relive some of the stress on my router that seemed to struggle with the modern world.I also have a couple of Blink cameras, these are a backup and used mostly for movement detection and a possible second view if the worst happens as they are inside and at eye level. No sub but they can turn it off at anytime.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 07:59:51 amNVR seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, and need. The PoE (power over Ethernet, so power comes from the Ethernet cable, so a single cable does power and data) versions, would also seem to reduce possible cabling headaches. Just need to lay down and connect one Ethernet cable (per camera), back to the NVR box.Although others have later in the thread, suggested using existing NAS capabilities, instead of a NVR. I'd prefer to keep things modular, and have the NVR box separate from any NAS's that I use.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 08:17:12 amThanks, that sounds like a good idea. Fixing the ladder like that, should make me feel more secure, and allow a higher, safe working height.Also, Pan-tilt-zoom (PTZ) types of camera, should mean that once installed, there is little need to have to repeatedly climb the ladder, to make fine positional adjustments, until the camera is facing in exactly the desired position.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:30:48 pm
content: My setup is pretty basic and cost me very little. Off the top of my head I figure you can get an NVR with HDD for, say, 80 USD, plus 4 cameras for under $100 for the four, plus ethernet cable, IP switch but these things cost me nothing. I had and have plenty ethernet cables and for switch I am using an old ADSL router where I just use the switch part but you can also get a second hand switch on ebay for close to nothing. You should be able to put the whole thing together for under $200. Of course you can spend more if you feel like getting fancy about it.You can use an unused computer as an NVR but you can get the electronic NVR board for like $25 and it is dedicated and uses less electricity. Just add HDD and enclosure.Regarding pan tilt cameras, well, yes, but they are more expensive. Since I use mine mainly with the purpose of just recording I so not find that feature useful and fixed cams are cheaper.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:31:16 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 11:36:27 amYes, that's how I would interpret the situation as well. Basically create a VLAN or similar, just for the NTR (cameras), or a separate network system, which doesn't (at least directly), connect to the internet.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:34:07 pm
content: if your not keen on heights you maybe better hiring a scaff tower for a weekend.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 10:54:43 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 21, 2024, 10:34:07 pmThe cameras will need to be readily accessible for periodic cleaning, they get dirty, dusty and covered in cobwebs, more so when IR illumination is used as it attracts insects which inturn attract spiders.22/06/2024_06:15:24_Activity Camera 07_ Big Black Hairy Spider.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 11:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 21, 2024, 10:54:43 pmThat's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. A possible alternative, is these very long extension brush cleaning kits. Which might avoid the need to involve ladders or scaffolding.E.g. Microfiber Duster, Feather Duster Cleaning Kit with Telescoping Extension Pole, around £17. Much cheaper ones, seem to exist as well, but may have less stuff in the kit.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 11:15:45 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 21, 2024, 10:54:43 pmIf you have cams with PTZ enclosed in a dome I suppose that is less of a problem but yes I want to have access to the cameras any time because they can fail and need repair or maintenance. But i have to say I have cameras under the roof eaves which are indoor cameras and they hold up well and have not given me problems with dirt etc.I "inject" the power voltage into the Ethernet cable and the outdoor connectors I wrap with insulating tape just to protect from dust, condensation, etc.And, yes, I have had insects even just position themselves in the very center of the lens covering it. I do not know if it it because it is warm or if they are attracted to the shiny lens and are trying to mate with it or something.My system failed a couple years ago and I assumed it was the NVR so I put together another one but then I found out it was not the NVR at all but the PSU that powered it so I just replaced the PSU and left the same old NVR and now I have a spare NVR. And I already had spare cameras. Maybe I need to buy another home just so I can put them to use.Another thing is that I have a camera mounted on the end of a long board because I cannot reach where the camera is placed so I place the camera on a board and then I secure the other end of the board. The camera goes at one end where I have even made a hood to protect it from the weather and the other end is fixed to the wall with two screws.You could even devise a sliding rail so the camera could be slid into position or retrieved.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 12:06:23 am
content: QuoteNot sure if its up to the job keeping them big buggers you get down under at bay though

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 12:15:23 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 21, 2024, 06:30:38 amSometimes it's just the convenience even if one is engineering-minded. I ran a Synology server with licenses for two cameras (Panasonic ones pretty expensive : ( with wired (PoE) connections, for about 10 years at home, but switched out to cloud-based ones for the past three years. I don't like opening ports on router (granted there are other options), and, as good as the software was on the Synology device, the mobile app for the cloud-based one is better. Super-easy to upload to YouTube within a minute if the police want a copy (it's helped out multiple times over the three years), image quality more than acceptable, works great night-time too; I don't need state-of-the-art imaging for home security. Not all my cameras are wired any more, I'm fine with that, I've not lost any footage (a decent WiFi access point is needed for home working anyway).There's no right way and wrong way, I just made the decision that suited me, and if the costs ever go too high, I'll reconsider. It's an acceptable cost so far (about $100 per year for unlimited cameras).

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 04:33:19 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2024, 12:58:24 pmSeeding a few torrents will do that. And it would be largely random accesses which results in constant seeking, theoretically causing more wear than security cameras which are largely sequential access.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 06:13:35 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on June 22, 2024, 12:15:23 amYou're right. Each household needs to make their own mind up, as to how to do it. Doing it all, via people from the existing household, or with subscription based services, or even using companies that will install a CCTV system, for a home. Are all valid options.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 06:49:21 am
content: Don’t forget battery backup of whatever sort. I’m using two UPS’s: one for the Mac Mini running Security Spy (which is my general purpose computer) and another for the network infrastructure - PoE switches, router, ONT, phones etc. I aim for 45 minutes autonomy. Most power cuts here are just a few seconds, only rarely is the power off for an hour or more.

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:34:22 am
content: I am currently running a system with 20+ camera's with varying inputs /outputs and this across a large property (5 acre's )16 analog cameras goto two hikision DVR's whose output also is sent onto a remote nas running AgentDVR and the whole setup is on a small solar rig.Additional to the analog units with have many EZVIZ wifi/lan camera's who all report back to agent DVR , no camera has internet access, when updates are needed i grab the file and manually upload to each camera.I have another site which is almost identical except it runs Shinobi and the back end NVR for all devices.a point to note, Shinobi(linux) is fully open source and has no real license limits the AgentDVR app (windows,linux,mac) has limits in place, it's able to detect VPN access and remote access (port forward) and will block it without the paid license which matter not for me as there is a pc onsite that displays all cameras on a large tv 24/7 and i have remote desktop access to that pc so viewing and controlling AgentDVR remotely is very easy.Both systems also have Home Assistant integrated so thing like gate lights can be triggered if there is recorded movement.EZVIZ is hikvision by another name so the provided apps will work and configure them , the offical desktop app (EZVision) can be blocked from internet and still function but mobile app cant.There are a number of camera's support by the opencctv software and that list can be found on the ipcamtalk forums along with guides and tips. do note that some camera functions are dropped over raw function and service and some still rely on factory blobs too. proceed there with caution.bandwidth wise when the system idle talking to the 20+ camera's it's around 600KBytes/s when the offices are busy it will just to around 1MB, i have FPS limits in place depending on time, normal working hours mon-fri it's 10fps as my staff are not the concern, Homeassist is able to override this and record all camera's at 30fps and this is triggered via 433mhz remotes,PC or any phone on local wifidarkspr1te

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:57:16 am
content: I have several cameras and an NVR from Ubiquiti. Everything is stored locally, and I can access it remotely if necessary. All basically plug and play, and has been rock solid for several years now.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 09:29:02 am
content: Lots of advice given so far, and here's another bit...My system has been in place for a loooong time so has evolved rather than been designed from scratch. I am still using four analog cameras, and additionally have several IP cameras. I prefer analog because of the immediacy (no lag - IP cameras can lag by a LOT) and better degradation. If the signal goes bad (poor wiring or something) the resolution turns pants but you still have usable video. With IP it's just a stuttering mess of blocks. But analog is not high resolution.If I were starting again I would first sort out the NVR - cameras are many and varied and easily acquired, but the NVR determines what you can do with your system. I've tried a few PC-based and standalone boxes (and designed a commercial system) and my first choice now would be a Dahua of some kind. The main reason for that is the motion detection, which isn''t just motion detection but recognises people, vehicles, etc. But the magic part is that you can set traps and trigger when an object crosses the trap (this way, that way, both ways). So, for instance, looking at our drive there is a bunch of moving vegatation and a road with passing traffic. The trigger is a line drawn across the top of the drive and it only triggers is something crosses that (to come up the drive). Everything else is ignored. There is also a box drawn around the car and that triggers when the car either disappears or arrives - it's not movement per se but something appearing or disappearing within the box. As a result, it captures everything it should and nothing it shouldn't. Simples. I presume other manufacturers may have similar features.Having got that sorted, the next thing is cameras. IP is the rage nowadays, but check that your NVR will use the desired features with the cameras. For instance, the great triggering on the Dahua only works with analog inputs (on this model) and relies on IP cameras doing their own alert stuff and letting the NVR know about it. Not sure why that is, but could be related to compression and throughput. Analog signals have many chips available to process them whereas digital cameras get the software treatment.IP cameras or whatever flavour should have ONVIF connectivity, and then they will talk to just about anything. Ones that don't allow that are often either vendor-locked or require a cloud connection (or, more likely, both) so don't buy one that doesn't do it. IME, even if a camera looks a bit so-so, if it does ONVIF you can ignore all the built-in rubbish and just stream that.POE is worth keeping in mind for simplicity of cabling, but it can get expensive real fast to use only gigabit POE switches. Most cheaper cameras would need a POE adapter to 12V too, so if they're close to a power point that can be simpler. It's also worth arranging things so all your IP cameras are on a separate physical subnet to your computer LAN - with them streaming 24/7 that's a fair amount of bandwith your pron downloads could use. In practice, that might just mean having all the feeds arrive in the same switch that the NVR is on (as opposed to traversing several switches to get there) since the switch can deal with port-to-port routing.WiFi, as already noted, isn't good for security, but don't discount it out of hand. Sometimes you can get power to some location but data (or video) is a showstopper. Currently we have a WiFi camera out back watching out for foxes approaching the electric fence, and it works pretty good. Surprisingly good, actually, but if I could get a CAT5 (we're not fussy) out there I would do that instead. But needs must and all that - something is often better than nothing.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 09:47:34 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 22, 2024, 09:29:02 amYou can absolutely get 4K analog cameras now, the frame rate is kinda low but sufficient for CCTV. I seem to recall it was around 12Hz. A colleague of mine brought one of his cameras in and I checked on a scope - it does genuinely output 3840 lines of data. The standard is some kind of modified high-resolution component video with a 40MHz colourburst so probably hitting the limit for analog but certainly enough for most applications.example systemhttps://www.annke.com/products/e800-8ch-4-cam-system#specification

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 12:19:31 pm
content: 4k analog is impressive.But it's swings and roundabouts. I have one run of UTP that has two camera feeds plus gate control running down it. If I use IP cameras I'd have to have another run (for the control) and a switch at the far end. So that's dealing with more power and weatherproofing the whole thing. Analog cameras are great there.On the other hand, a single UTP run to the garage handles an access point, three WiFi cameras and remote control of the CNC mill.Another advantage of IP cameras is that you can access them directly without going through the NVR, perhaps for config or live monitoring.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 12:32:39 pm
content: from personal experience CCTV does not stop intruders! it only shows that an unknown person is breaking and entering.because CCTV cannot remove a face mask or balaclava. todays masked intruders are Not afraid of video surveillance.only a mantrap can stop & hold an intruder. a bear trap is a bit extreme!most people leave there car keys on the kitchen table.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 12:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on June 22, 2024, 12:32:39 pmIn the UK, man-traps would be illegal.Even if the intruders/vandals/etc, are wearing face masks. The police can see their other clothes, which means that they can connect them to other crimes and combine all the evidence to try and identify who they are.Also, these criminals, seem to take those masks off, before and after the crime area. So (hypothetically), if the intruder, was wearing worn out blue jeans, with some kind of sticker, on the back, and a torn T-shirt, which says EEV on it. If the police grab other CCTV in the area, which shows a person, wearing those cloths, but without a face mask, they are beginning to narrow down on the suspect(s) identities.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 02:37:53 pm
content: Booby traps are illegal in all civilized countries and for good reason.I agree in principle that cameras do not deter intruders for the most part but they are still very useful. I have stopped several break-ins next door and across the street just because I was watching the cameras and called the police. Also the recording can be used as evidence if they are caught. Also crooks seem to be especially dumb and many times do not bother even trying to cover or disguise themselves.One morning the neighbors saw two women just go in next door and when we called the police they claimed squatters rights to stay claiming they had been living there for long time etc. And the police are more reluctant to evict women. It is true they had the keys to the locks on the door but when I reviewed the video I saw two men had changed the locks the previous evening, unseen. That proved these women had just moved in.Another time some guy was breaking in but fled when he noticed we had seen him. When the police stopped him two blocks away he denied ever having been here but the video recording showed it was him.I also had the recording of a confrontation with an a-hole police officer and I was glad to have it on tape even with no audio but the neighbors were my best evidence of what happened and how the guy was abusive and totally out of line.And I find them useful for other things. Something broke or is out of place and it makes me nervous to think someone did it but then I review the video and see it was the wind or a cat.I find the CCTV useful in many ways.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 03:45:32 pm
content: QuoteMaybe not suitable for domestic use,but coloured smoke grenades not only disorientate the intruder ,but can also stain them a lovely shade of orange.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 03:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 22, 2024, 12:50:54 pmIf the goal is to assist local law enforcement, go for CCTV. It is unclear how this would improve the existing network of CCTVs from neighbors, local businesses and ATMs, though.For the protection of personal property, comprehensive contents and/or car insurance is the way to go. To protect the lives and well-being of you and your loved ones, a firearm is a better choice. CCTV is completely useless for that.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 03:53:00 pm
content: Quoteand here in the uk will get you a longer time inside than the scrotes who broke into your property

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 04:36:54 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 22, 2024, 03:45:32 pmThere is a product -Smokecloak- which does pretty much exactly that. Alarm triggers, place fills with smoke withing seconds and the perp is doing well if he can find the door he's just come through.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 04:59:51 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 22, 2024, 04:36:54 pmI cannot find formula of their gas. But I successfully used smoke for garden to kick away criminals (insecticidal smoke, caustic). It's very cheap cartridges with fast and massive smoke.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 05:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: Postal2 on June 22, 2024, 04:59:51 pmSurely it is better to use the local Police force, in most places. Because, sorting it out yourself like that, could end up annoying those criminals, who could come back, possibly along with their mates as well, with shot guns or similar, and take out their revenge on you, your friends and family, as well as your property.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 06:39:37 pm
content: CCTV cameras do deter theft, because the thieves will rather not take the risk and burgle your neighbour instead.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 07:25:07 pm
content: QuoteBy the time they decide they're not going to come out to take a statement after all, your stuff has probably been already sold on Ebay. Nowadays they just issue a crime number and expect you to claim off insurance.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 07:35:56 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 22, 2024, 05:54:15 pmWas masked as fire incident with electrical panel (where was cartridge). Smell near similar.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:07:38 pm
content: Quotenothing exotic,just glycol and smart water

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 22, 2024, 08:07:38 pmCriminals will laugh. It's ineffective. And it doesn't look like a fire incident. The developers don't understand what need to do.Criminals will turn on their boombox and dance to it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 22, 2024, 03:45:32 pmEven better if it's embedded in some decoy designed to look like a valuable, rigged so that it goes off a few minutes after being stolen. They'll think something in the loot had caught fire and abandon it.Another one if legal to own (but not operate) is a radio jammer that activates if stolen. They won't know something's up until the FCC (or the local equivalent) is after them!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: Postal2 on June 22, 2024, 08:23:14 pmOn the contrary, I tested an install of this and can confirm that within seconds one is completely blind and disoriented. Literally, you cannot see your hand with your arm out.Maybe you should actually try stuff before doing the armchair warrior thing.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 08:47:27 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 22, 2024, 08:32:27 pmYou can go to your local crime bar where criminals are having fun in the same smoke. They will not feel threatened by it and will simply wait until the smoke clears.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 09:19:33 pm
content: More from My personal experience how CCTV can help identify intruders IMOIF it has infrared light at night - infrared flood light Illuminator unit can help give security camera night vision a boost.however clothing under infrared light looks white when the clothing is black in daylight.so a passive infrared sensor with white flood light will get best full color video at night.IF the CCTV lens viewing angle will get it all in. and the video resolution high enough 1080p or 4kIF the CCTV system has enough camera channels for all sides of the property. more channels is better then 1 or 2 pan & tilt security cameras.video fps vs video resolution will set your HDD video back-up time limit. the more Hard Drive terabyte capacity the bettera one terabyte capacity for 4 channels at 24 fps 480p video resolution is 7 days. but only 1 day at 1080p 24 fpsvideo motion detection can help but motion detection algorithms and camera setup are critical. as a poor setting can have your 24/7 CCTV systemfail to record an intruder.12 volt system battery backup or UPS ensure uninterrupted CCTV power.adding sound channels can help identify intruders- outdoor microphones more then one.intruders like to use their phone on the job. if you can electronically identify the call phone entering your property you can identify them.police need evidenceyou can spend more on a video surveillance systems then the property lost by the theft itself.expensive video surveillance DVR recorders systems can be stolen if not hidden in the building.security cameras hidden from view also hidden from the weather are more reliable over time.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 09:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: Postal2 on June 22, 2024, 08:47:27 pmYou think it's like a bloody disco just because it uses the same ingredients. That's not the case. Again, unless you've found yourself in a pukka security setup you have no idea what it's actually like.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 10:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 22, 2024, 09:43:35 pmIt's going to be frightening and likely to be very disorientating for the criminals, who may be pumping huge amounts of stress, that can somewhat badly mess up a persons ability to think clearly.Also, for all the intruders know, are security guard(s) and/or employees and/or Police etc, suddenly going to get them.Anyway, like with most other security deterrents. It is just another layer of security, but not a 100% guarantee of perfect security.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2024, 11:01:08 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 22, 2024, 09:43:35 pmI don’t remember exactly the composition of the substance for the garden, something similar to permethrin, the bag with it lies far away. But if you find yourself in its smoke, you will run before visibility disappears.You might set a world running record.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 01:08:56 am
content: Please feel free to comment on, or tear apart, this post. I'll start with the first criticism, this post is, way, way too long!, sorry.Ok, I've been searching and searching today, and looked into many of the numerous solutions available, on Amazon (UK), and a bit of ebay.Thanks for all the replies and banter, so far. It is helping me land on the ground running.I'm really itching and itching , to get something to start me off.One plan, is as follows (not necessarily followed, exactly as the link shows):https://www.instructables.com/WiFi-Security-Camera-With-a-Pi-Zero-2W/N.B. It would just be a starting point, for initial experimentation, and would fairly quickly and easily, get me going, now. At least to some extent.The plan would be I install them, so they look through suitable windows/door(s), so don't need to be weather proof, would only need a relatively cheap USB power supply, with the built in WiFi, 'connecting' it up, to my network(s).Although I think I can arrange it, (with some set up time and other initial hassle), to be a separate part of my network(s), a bit like a vlan. With equipment, I already have. But, at this stage, there doesn't seem to be a need for it, as long as we are talking about fairly trustworthy PI software sources, such as the Raspberry PI foundation, etc.PROs (for me, at least):Unlike virtually all the other brands, where (like others have said), it would be worrying to directly connect them, to existing network/NAS etc infrastructure. It would be Raspberry PI Zero 2W's, with my own (as in open source PI software, suitable for OS and CCTV). So, reasonably trustworthy, to connect to my existing equipment, without any major creation of isolated network branches (VLANs) etc.Although, I'd have to check to see if the CCTV camera software itself bit, was truly open source, or just a big binary blob, supplied from some source, which would be less trustworthy.The 12 megapixels of the Raspberry PI Camera module 3, is actually a respectable pixel amount, as such cameras, seem to go for like the £100 mark, just for each CCTV camera.Wide angle or normal, and with or without IR filter versions, are available.There seems to be a Raspberry PI Zero camera case. I need to check if it takes the Raspberry PI zero 2 and Raspberry PI camera module 3. (The article probably indicates it does, but I haven't read it through, properly, yet).I don't think that camera case is weather proof. But I prefer to start off, quickly and easily, by using those through windows and with WiFi, initially.It will help me learn what I might need, for a more permanent and probably outdoor camera solution.I might get some cheap dummy, easy to fit cameras, to give me better deterrent capabilities, outside. Until I'm ready, for a proper external CCTV system.It is dawning on me, that the permanent, outside solution, with CCTV cameras (IP), involves considerably more work, and equipment/cost, than I originally realized. Each camera would need its own Ethernet cable, and the cable runs back to the main station. Which could be a PoE router, with enough wattage capability, for all the security lights (on the better cameras) to be powered, that can add up to a fair chunk. Cheaper PoE routers, would not be able to handle such output loads, depending on what things you get.Cameras without subscriptions, also seem to offer rather basic functionality, as regards the software/apps/web-interface support.As mentioned by many in this thread, already. Modern day auto/motion detection/alerts, doesn't work very reliably at all, usually.NVR's, can be a mixed blessing. Some, only really work with their own range of cameras. They tend to come with relatively small hard disks (e.g. 1TB, which is enough, I guess, really), and if they come with bigger ones, the price seems to shoot up, rather quickly and steeply.The cost of all the PoE equipment, Cameras (the more features and bigger resolution ones, start to get very pricey, especially for quality ones, e.g. £240 (I appreciate there are much cheaper options, but if you want high resolution (12MP)), PTZ, quality makes, other features, etc, then you perhaps need an expensive one) per camera), outdoor suitable and suitably long cables (Ethernet), monitor(s), higher end NVRs (if used), and other bits and pieces (such as high endurance SD cards in cameras if applicable, battery backup if wanted, etc), can soon bring the price over £1,000 (which would be a lot or even considerably more than I originally intended) for a setup.Just to reiterate. The desire for top resolution, doesn't come from greed. It is to provide the Police (if necessary), the best possible images, to track down the criminals, if necessary. Also, enough resolution and quality to make out number plates, could be very useful, as well.If they are wearing masks, high resolution and very clear images, would still give a better chance of sussing out who the criminals are, and/or recognizing them again.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 01:26:15 am
content: MK14;Not too long (posts) if it's needed, for a project like yours.My humble suggestion would be to also figure to be involved for some medium long period of time...Let's just say if I was manager there the first business would be to create at least an informal calendar, of milestones. Think, maybe 10 months to 14 months, realistically, but with a way to get PARTIALLY up and running, perhaps on one of the isolated LAN with maybe 3 cameras running.You can change out various camera options. I did like the concept mentioned, of low camera angle for better facial shots.But the real advice would be to get a decent, clear space ready, with desk, shelves, etc to facilitate more clarity and efficiency. A good £90 (UK) for one of those culinary shelves that come on wheels, often used for pots and pans.Maybe hire an ambitious student, as manager, (keeping it clear that budget is tight).I'd volunteer, but too much travel...Rick B. in Hayward, Ca.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 01:58:12 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 22, 2024, 12:50:54 pmI've encountered that too. Even if they hide their face in the shadows, they are careless enough to wear the same clothes, I've walked around the following day and easily spotted them after a couple of hours, on two occasions, and then just rang the police and let them know!The police seem very happy with Ring video (the image is excellent for what it is - a non-adjustable camera with a very wide angle with lots of detail in the central forward-looking direction, and picks up color even in quite dark conditions) and then they can ask others in the area to check their doorbell cams etc., and gain even more insight. A friend had her dog stolen, they easily traced the thief across half the town that way, and recovered it.It seems a good idea to experiment and see what's possible, and what suits your needs. I didn't get it right the first time at all. I initially purchased standard res analog cams (it was a long time ago) and MJPEG recorders, it was all awful. Then tried SD cameras and basic hard drive recorders in a friend's retail store, and soon learned the limitations of those too (very low frame rate as well as the low-res images). I then moved to Panasonic IP cams, they were fine at the time, but technology moves on and they were in comparison to HD cameras, not great. Also the software didn't have a lot of features. Plus they had mechanical day/night filters and a cooling fan, which eventually wore out; also, those cameras were huge in comparison to today's cameras.Things might work ok even if not completely weatherproof; I used a non-weatherproof camera outside the front door (it was a cheap bullet-shaped camera (very small, quite covert!), with a car TFT screen inside near the door, so people could see who was outside before opening the door) it lasted many years with it's self-heat, and being under a slope so no direct rain fell on it.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 02:23:53 am
content: As it may help others, in a similar situation to me.The top of list, in 'conventional' CCTV solutions, when I looked into it, today, was going to be this:https://www.amazon.co.uk/ANNKE-Camera-Security-Outdoor-Weatherproof/dp/B08Y56XVPXANNKE C800 4K CCTV PoE Camera with Audio, IP Security Camera Outdoor, H.265+, Smart Motion Alerts, IP67 Weatherproof, 100 ft EXIR 2.0 Night Vision, Slot for Micro SD Card (2Pack)Currently (claiming price reduced): -31% £109.99For two.They seem to be able to work, without a NVR (but you can use one, if you want).PROs were:Not too bad a price at around £55 each, for a 8MP resolution camera, IP67 outdoor capable.Some people in this thread have mentioned and/or recommended ANNKE CCTVs.Just needs a PoE router (NVR not essential), and a webbrowser (if I've understood what I've read) and/or app and/or other methods of accessing it.Not a huge amount of (software) functionality, but at least it is subscription free, and doesn't even need an internet connection (if I've understood things, correctly).Reviews are reasonably good, for that camera (range), although some think the cheapest ones they make, are rather cheaply made/built. But that doesn't sound too unreasonable to me. Anyway, the one I'm talking about here, is more lower middle range, rather than bottom of range/cheapest.Is capable of handling facing the sun automatically (if I understood things, correctly).The images from it, that I've seen, seem very reasonable.DISADVANTAGES were:Doesn't come with the long cable(s), needed (unless 1 metre is long enough for you).Doesn't seem so reasonably priced, if only buying one, which is probably my preferred starting quantity, to try it out (instead it is more like £70 for one).One could be fairly quickly and easily installed outside, by me. But a second one, would be much trickier, as it would then need long enough cabling and wouldn't be in a preexisting CCTV camera capable point (sort of), that I've got.Compared to a Raspberry PI 2W solution, whose WiFi would allow it to be placed, anywhere, within range of the WiFi. It would still need power, but that doesn't need to connect back to one master point, it would only need to connect to the mains-adapter, and its lead, back to a suitable room/location.Since the lead (USB) that comes out of the mains adapters, is low voltage and relatively safe. It could come out of any hole or one could be drilled.Another option, might be to get/try both, a Raspberry PI 2W and one or two, of the above linked ANNKE Cameras. Since with deeper reflection/analysis. The PI solution, is great for the front, day or night, as there is probably enough light from stuff, for a modern/sensitive camera to still work.But round the back, there would be little or very limited light, unless any security light(s) have activated. So, at night at the back, a proper external outdoor camera, with built in IR LEDs, would probably give the best results.I suppose, that two pack of the ANNKE Cameras, plus a Raspberry PI 2W camera solution, would then give three 'test' cameras. The PI behind a suitable window, one ANNKE in the already mentioned preexisting position, and then the other ANNKE somewhere else, at the front, or even left alone, for later.It would cost around £250 (very rough estimate, suspect it would be more, in practice), by the time the cameras, and extras (such as PoE routers, cables and bits and pieces, especially for the PI bits), are obtained.I know some people in this thread, don't think SD cards, are a good idea. I don't disagree, as such. But I think for early experimentation and given these IP cameras, can also connect and transfer stuff onto NAS's and other storage devices. I don't think it would be a big issue.Anyway, depending on the results. A suitable NVR could always be added, to the layout, and more cameras bought. In the future.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 02:46:03 am
content: I installed, configured and repaired security and surveillance systems in residential, commercial and industrial applications for over 25 years but was medically retired at 50, that was seven years ago and customers are still calling me for advice.The best security you can have is a good neighbour, and preferably one with a decent surveillance system.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 02:54:24 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on June 23, 2024, 01:58:12 amThanks, that is both very funny, and doesn't surprise me.In my case, I have a pretty good idea, as to what the culprits look like, causing the issues. But, really need CCTV for the Police. Who would then either recognize them (hopefully), or be able to find out who they are, plus video evidence, of them up to no good and/or being near recent criminal activities, in the neighborhood.Quote from: shabaz on June 23, 2024, 01:58:12 amThanks, that is very interesting to know (about those RING doorbell cameras). I'll need to look into that.I'm glad, you have confirmed (as other(s) have mentioned as well), that experimentation, is rather or very useful.For things like good night vision, I suspect experimentation, is increasingly important. I remember having to find a very sensitive (indeed) camera, in my old CCTV setup, in order to work in the dark. To a human (eye), it looked reasonably bright, even late at night. But a conventional (otherwise good) CCTV camera, would show it as almost total blackness (in the picture).But a super sensitive (very low lux needed) camera (IIRC SONY Bullet, probably Black and White, certainly (IIRC) at night), gave amazing results. Fairly pricey (at the time), but well worth it.It was a while ago, and I don't think IR Leds were so bright, cheap and available, as they are today, but I could be wrong.Anyway, it was behind a window, so it would of been a fair bit of hassle, to sort out outside IR lighting, then.Good and interesting point about indoor cameras, being usable outdoors, in suitable, dry and somewhat protected locations. It increases peoples CCTV options.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 03:17:14 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 23, 2024, 02:46:03 amI just need you to upload all that amazing knowledge, into some kind of deep learning or similar, LLM system, and make that data set, available for me to use, with my favorite ChatGPT or similar, engine.I can then get all the answers I want.My first question might be, how much MP camera resolution do I really need?Also, is that even one of the most important features of a CCTV security camera?

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 04:36:02 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 23, 2024, 03:17:14 amNot really, it depends on location, lighting, orientation, accessibility and individual requirements, each of which differ from site to site, and more importantly gut instinct which only comes with experience.QuoteThis is dependent on the individual application, an outdoor camera intended for number plate identification at 50 meters in a car park will likely be different from one used for facial recognition at 5 meters in an entry foyer.QuoteFrom my experience it all comes down tolighting and illumination, even in bold I can't highlight that enough. A crappy old 320 line analogue camera in good light will likely provide a better image than a 4k whiz-bang thing in the dark.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 08:37:16 am
content: QuoteWhat a masochist!QuoteYes, and you need to be clear as to what the purpose is. If it's to tinker with stuff on an ongoing basis and troubleshoot weird issues then you're on the right track. But if you want a reliable system which you set up and then forget about until you have to check who stole what, then I don't think this is the route to take.First:QuoteYes, a good one isn't cheap (although there are deals on the just-obsoleted models). The alternative that you're looking at is either upload to Google Drive and/or local storage on SD card. Neither of those options are serious: using Drive is relying on external connectivity when things are going wrong (it'sthe cloudand you don't like that, remember), and on-camera storage is prone to being taken when the perps nick the cameras. Further, trying to browse arbitrary events on several cameras simultaneously will quickly lead to tears, floods of same if they are different makes.Many NVRs phone home or otherwise connect to external sites, but that's why you don't pick some random rubbish. Mine, for instance, will do all of that because, well, users are dumb and need helping along. But, importantly, it can all be disabled so it is local only. And, additionally, it's blocked at the firewall so couldn't even if it wanted. For this kind of application, anything I buy that connects to the network is setup and tested without access to the intertubes, and if it doesn't work perfectly it goes back for a refund as faulty. Ditto for cameras - it is fine for it to know and love the same make of cameras, but it has to work well with some random generic model too.Think about some situation where you want to check if that bloody dog shit on your lawn. How are you going to zero in on when it happened, and how are you going to access the exact footage you need to email your neighbour? For me, I don't want a PC or standalone DVR where I have to sit in the cupboard under the stairs with a portable monitor and keyboard to operate the thing. A minimum is browser access to the full functionality, and a phone app (that works without cloud access) wouldn't go amiss. The DIY solutions for that tend to be ongoing time and money sinks...However, having said that, I am a fan of just doing it cheaply and finding out exactly what I really want and need, so don't let this put you off having a go with a Pi or whatever. Just keep at the back of your mind that it might end up going a different way, so for expensive kit it needs to be not locked into a particular cubbyhole.QuoteAnything involving hard drives I nearly always buy with the smallest, cheapest one they supply, preferably empty without any storage. I'll populate it with decent storage I've personally OK'd, and at a far cheaper price than the supply would have provided. Further, if you can't replace the storage yourself then it's faulty product since you''re screwed if/when it fails.On cameras:Doesn't need to be expensive stuff. One I recently purchased, for a temporary placement which has now turned permanent, was:https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0B1LQ5THSLooks shit, interface is, er, so-so and had a long conversation with the vendor about turning down the IR LEDs (vegetation just in front was too bright at night) which elicited the response that they are not actually adjustable but it would be fine (and not affect warranty) to just get in and snip the feed to them! But it is a great camera that works well, and I wouldn't hesitate to get another for similar situation. Best thing is it's relatively tiny, and despite being on the front of the property, no-one notices it is there.Cable is UTP with POE, but in initial testing I ran it over WiFi using an ethernet-wifi bridge. IMO that's a perfectly reasonable way to go temporarily to check things out before laying cable.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 09:10:32 am
content: Another thing: camera-integrated illumination can be a world of pain. Don’t use it if you want to look through a window, or back reflection will make the camera useless at night. Visible illumination will attract insects, and spiders will build webs around the camera to catch them. Lots of spurious 8-legged motion events!In fact anything close to the camera will be brilliantly illuminated and this will cause the actual ROI to appear very dark. This is a drawback with mounting cameras under the eaves.The ideal would be a camera-controlled and powered, but remotely mounted, light source. I haven’t found one yet though

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 09:32:12 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 23, 2024, 01:08:56 amI don't think this is right at all. I have not looked at prices recently and I could be wrong but I don't think so.I am pretty sure you can get 4 basic IP cameras for $100. Of course, if you want fancy cameras with brands names it will cost more.Cameras are pretty much all compatible. Maybe 15 years ago cameras were no so compatible but today I find it difficult to believe.https://www.embedded.com/ip-video-surveillance-standards/I bought my cameras on eBay 12 years ago, the cheapest I could find, and they have all worked fine. Of course, if you go to local suppliers to buy brand name equipment of the best kind then of course you will pay more.An NVR can be bought or assembled for less than another $100. I just did.You will need a switch which can be had for close to nothing. You can buy a used one or you can do what I do and use an ADSL router. Cost: $0You do not need any special router and much less a router with POE which you can do separately. For recording to NVR you do not need any router at all. The router is part of you LAN which is separate and unrelated. If you want to connect the cameras to the LAN then you use whatever router you are already using. I think you are making this unnecessarily complicated.All you need to do POE is get injector/splitter pigtails. See attached photo of the connection of one of my cameras.You will need some Ethernet cables and I have no idea of the cost because I have not bought Ethernet cable in ages and have enough supply for several lifetimes.In summary, my estimation is that you can get an initial 4 camera + NVR installation set up for $200 or less. Just to play it safe I will increase that to $300

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 09:46:33 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 23, 2024, 04:36:02 amYes, it's true. Therefore sensor only SONY.You can easily check the camera's performance. Turn it on at dusk (without backlighting), and when your eyes stop distinguishing colors, the camera should give a clear color image without noise.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 09:55:35 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 23, 2024, 03:17:14 amMy advice would be to get some cheap stuff and get started and you will learn plenty.How much resolution you need is, in my estimation, the wrong question and if you ask that in the store they will ask you how much money do you want to spend. Cameras, like HDD and many other things have a sweet spot of features and price and that's where you want to go unless you have very strong reasons to go elsewhere. When I bought my cams 12 years ago the sweet spot was 720 P and that is what I got. Anything more would have meant diminishing return for my money. Today I would guess the sweet srot to be somewhere like 1200P.My advice is to just get a first camera and connect it and get started you can view it on your computer and experiment and see the results. With that experience you can get another camera. then a third one. Then NVR etc.It costs almost nothing to get started and you will learn and feel more confident.I ended up having more cameras than I need because I played around and set and exchanged cameras. It is not expensive.The PTZ feature I do not find that useful as I would hardly ever use it. Unless you really know you want it I would not pay for it. It makes sense for a security guard permanently watching and surveying. For a home system I do not find it worth paying for.As for lighting outdoors you have daylight and I have already explained the capabilities of IR which you can enhance with additional "IR illuminators".I would avoid WIFI but it might make sense in certain situations like a very large property with a very long driveway and you want to have a remote camera there and the capability to see who is there and unlock the gate for them. Then you can always put a camera on a pole with solar panels and battery and connect with WIFI.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 09:59:55 am
content: @AllI gave MK14 a call and we had a thorough and detailed discussion as to his immediate security concerns and requirements. I will leave it to him to expand upon this if he so wishes but will just say that due to the premise layout and construction a diy or self installation is impractical, it's a two storey solid brick building which requires the assistance of a professional installer.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 11:26:36 am
content: I would probably disagree. Of course for anyone who has the money and does not want to invest time or effort hiring a pro is the way to go. But if you have the time and interest I think it is better to know your system and have control over it. I much prefer to have total control over this kind of things.I am in my seventies and I have a two story brick house with roof eaves which are about 8 m above ground and I have no problem getting up there. But even if I were wheelchair bound and could not get up there I would just hire someone, some handyman, to do that part of the work and I would do the configuration and connections myself.I do not see the point of paying a pro to do something I can do myself. If I am a rich and busy businessman whose time is worth a lot then yes. But being retired I prefer to do it myself and not only to save money but also to know exactly how the system is configured and works.And not only the installation. When something fails or acts wonky or you want to change something, you are in the hands of the pro who knows what he did. And you pay him again.And if he is not available you need to get someone else who is going to tell you the previous guy did a terrible job and now he has to charge you to fix it.If I do the job and I do a terrible job then I am also the next guy and I just tell myself I did a terrible job but I do it for free.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 11:26:50 am
content: CCTV will only push the criminal to another place. But many don't care these days, they know the police are too busy to do much about anything.It does make you feel better and along with your neighbours can help you deal with what happened, how they did it so you can prevent the next time.Not sure about the figures but I have been told most cctv isn't much use in court as the quality has to be beyond a reasonable doubt etc etc.As a friend often says, the best security to use is security you will use.I have very good cctv of some lads nicking one of my motorcycles. Never got anything back from the police about it.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 12:08:23 pm
content: In the old house and when I was actively doing high-end restorations, I installed a hardwired IP system based on HikVision cameras and Blue Iris software that worked well.That setting was semi-rural.Ultimately I decided that all I cared about was the license plate and knowing if someone was inside the house when we were not there. One camera was used to get a good shot of any license plate that came up the drive. I also had a highly visible camera high up on a corner (this actually reduced the number of "tourists" going up the use in common drive). The license plate camera was also highly visible and placed right over the garage door.My focus on outdoor cameras was deterrence. My monitoring was focused on actual intruders.What I monitored was inside the house. We used geofencing to turn on inside house alerts when we were gone. One camera in the family room and another in the shop. These sent email and push notifications if the triggers were set off. The included a picture of what caused the alert and also text with the phone number of the local precinct. The plan was to tell the officer on desk that I had an actual picture and active video of an intruder. Could also alert us via phone while we slept (our bedroom was the farthest room form only access point; being 8 feet above grade).That system had 8 POE cameras with a couple switches. Even ran one 200 ft to a little pond for giggles. The system worked well when we travelled abroad and when our daughter checked on the house we got the expected push notifications and emails.We now live in truly rural New Hampshire and I am again setting up a system using Blue Iris and will follow the same basic plan. But I will try to avoid a hard wired network; one Wifi camera works well, another wildlife camera (bears, bobcats, coyotes, bats) will need to be put on a wifi bridge. I like the features but its radio really sucks. Once I get that ironed out, I will add two more cameras to monitor for intruders. Will need to see what happens to my bandwidth.Blue Iris is feature rich (can be triggered by a full range of I/O), includes a web server and phone app, AI enhanced motion detection and license plate recognition, runs on any computer and is a one time cost of about $60 with over 10 years of an active support forum. It just takes a while to understand where to find all the settings. While I never it considered important, you can FTP the videos to your web site.I only use cloud storage for temporary storage of phone pics until I download them onto my HDD or to share access of documents. Once someone else is the custodian, you lost control of your stuff.What I learned from the old system was the more you add to your system, the harder it is to manage. Think about what is really important to you. Personally, I think fire and water damage are higher risks than burglary. Look up the stats in your region. This is one of the many reasons I like Blue Iris.Do you have a fire escape ladder in higher bedrooms? A "security system" is not the highest priority when it comes to personal safety."Stuff" can be replaced. A "safe room" that blocks an intruder until everyone can get out the window is more useful than confronting them in the dark with a handgun or shotgun (again, look up stats on outcomes).If you have stuff that you need secured, buy a safe that weighs at least 500 pounds and put it in the basement. This will protect your documents and stuff against fire, flood and theft (mass is your only friend here). Too many people waste money on easily moved"gun safes" when a real safe can be purchased for the same amount of money that are fire and flood rated.Be aware that in the US, safety deposit boxes are extremely insecure. Research the number of collectors who lost their stuff when a bank changed hands and sold the contents so they could remove the boxes. Not as rare as you would hope. Again, once someone else is the custodian, you have given up control.Just sayin.OTOH, one neighbor in Maryland had a very subtle but highly effective warning sign. Right outside his front door he had a bucket filled with spent .38 caliber casings. Most visitors would not notice, but anyone seeking to break in would get its meaning.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 12:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on June 23, 2024, 11:26:50 amThat is where the embedded jammer rigged to operate if stolen would be very helpful. Determining if it got stolen is going to be much harder compared to something that stays at home, maybe check if it has been within range of your phone or other everyday carry device within the last 24 hours.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 12:38:26 pm
content: Just for added infoHow To Turn Your Old Phone Into a Home Security Camera for Freehttps://www.cnet.com/home/security/how-to-turn-your-old-phone-into-a-home-security-camera-for-free/It's time for your old iPhone or Android device to be reborn as a security camera.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 05:12:38 pm
content: I don't know a huge amount on the cameras, but monitoring any new developments regarding CELLPHONE cameras (being hacked).Of course, some readers might have seen news reports, of criminals self-organizing to be more effective. One trend seems to be the deliberate placement, of covert surveillance, having a cellphone (camera) watching house and ability to monitor residents habitual schedules. Not good.Plus, anybody seeing that trend could imagine other, clever scenarios, such as 'monitoring' an entire street section on a cul-de-sac or dead-end. That would enable a more 'harvesting' approach....targeting a group of homes.That's organized crime becoming more efficient, makes sense for ANY organization.I know, odds if my own cellphone (camera) being hacked is low....still, I routinely place phone up high, behind stuff, when undressing...just a habit, as you have to put (phone) down somewhere....might as well be pro-active.(Some folks take the cellphone into bathroom....something to read while 'busy')

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 11:05:11 pm
content: I missed the following out originally, as I didn't want to give out too much private information.I've recently had a spate of things, such as an attempted burglary (I shouted at the culprit(s) (there were between one and a few culprits, at different stages of the break in attempt), the Police were in attendance, as the culprit(s), may have been hiding), EDIT:**possibly actual burglaries(unsure if they managed to get in or not, some signs of damage/messing inside, but not 100% conclusive) and significant damage to a number of things, outside.It is costing thousands of pounds, to put things right. But some of the things could have done with being renewed, anyway. So, the real cost is hard to estimate.E.g. They smashed up a window, a few days ago. I don't know if it was the same culprits, but I suspect it was.I might be at risk of physical harm, so I have to deal with the immediate threats, and try not to confront them, myself.The Police and other people, know that other property(s) in the region (Town), have had possibly similar issues, but it could also be unrelated.Some (e.g. The Police) think that these are targeted attacks, and they are seeking out certain properties, on purpose.As others have kindly pointed out (both in this thread and through other communication, mediums), thanks!This situation and my CCTV requirements, don't have the time to wait for me to mess around with Raspberry PIs and stuff, taking many months or a year, to eventually sort out what I need.So, I need to take what immediate steps that I can do now (thanks for the advice!).Such as activating any existing cameras, I can very quickly get to operate, such as a wildlife camera (with internal SD card, and passive IR detection to start and stop, recording, which I can put in a suitable spot, quickly), I've got, but not used yet.Panic alarm(s), as it is getting risky, if intruders manage to break in.My overall physical home security, is being improved, on an ongoing basis. Making it a lot tougher for intruders to get in.So a professional CCTV company, can rapidly access the actual specific building layout, and devise suitable solutions, given the exact situation.Also, as already mentioned. Lighting is extremely important. So I intend to have the existing security lighting situation, significantly improved.I feel a bit like when a beginner, starts a thread, saying something like, they feel they need a 200GHz 16 channel oscilloscope, to start learning about electronics for the first time. So, they have decided to start off by building their own, 200GHz oscilloscope from scratch, using some transistors they bought for $0.99 on ebay, from China. How hard can it be?EDIT:** Most likely, nobody, actually broke in. But there was an attempted break-in (while I was in, I heard it (loud bangs) and went to where they were trying to break in, and shouted, which worked, and they ran off, to (what I presume, as I saw them all together, when I searched the street for the culprits, a couple of minutes or so, later) meet up with a few others, in the street or on the other side of where I am).E.g. (There was a lot of electronics stuff, where I was most suspicious, they may have been), but they would have disturbed a number of things, in that area, just by messing around there. But everything I've looked at, seems to be where it was, from before the incident(s).Such as a set of resistors (on cut tape, through hole, 1/4 watt, with perhaps 10 or so, on it), which had fallen, and were only just stopped by something, from dropping onto the floor, about half-way up. I'd noticed them a while ago, but (lazy) didn't bother to put them back where they belonged.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 07:18:55 am
content: Really sorry to learn of your situation. I would seriously think about getting in professional installers and remote monitoring. Of course, that may not be affordable, but perhaps your home insurance may contribute.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 08:46:55 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 23, 2024, 11:05:11 pmI know exactly what you mean because I was there when I started with this. People breaking in to the house I had just bought and the houses around it, the police showing no interest and making me wait hours to file a report... feeling insecure at night ... etc.Then I started looking at security cams specs and it is a forest where I just got lost. So many specs and no way to know what is relevant or important. Like when you arrive in a new town, after a while things begin to become clearer. You memorize the main avenues, gradually some smaller ones, etc. But it takes time.Besides CCTV I have used and still use- Exterior lights which detect movement and turn on- Interior lights on timers- TV simulator. I put it shining up against a window curtain and it gives the impression there is a TV in the room. I just checked prices and they're selling for more than twice what I paid ten years ago.https://www.ebay.com/itm/195431104196- PIR motion detectors inside which sound a Ding Dong chime.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 09:16:22 am
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 24, 2024, 07:18:55 amI'm hoping it is going to stop, in which case I will/should be fine, and get over it. But will still need/want CCTV, either way.But if it continues, I will have to make a massive effort to get the Police to catch them. CCTV being the most promising method.I accept some of the blame for this. For example, I knew one of my security lights needed a new bulb (the main incident, was in daylight, but I'm just giving you some background information), and hadn't got it replaced yet (probably with a similar LED version), and many other little (or bigger) things, which mount up. There are other things, that could be improved, not just by adding a CCTV system.Don't necessarily think that is a small issue. Many years ago, that and/or another security related light, had its bulb burn out. I then had signs of people messing around, the next day.Some sources, seem to think/explain, that various opportunists/burglars/vandals etc, go roaming round, looking for opportunities. So (many years ago), they noticed the dark section and/or thought no one was in and/or noticed it was unusually NOT lit up, and then messed around (or even tested to see if they could easily break in).Reading a local newspaper, a rather long time ago. It warned residents, not to leave their front-door open (unattended), even for a few minutes, as these opportunist(s), would nip in, steal stuff, then run off.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 09:45:05 am
content: Wow. This is horrible. This sounds like Stanley Kubrick kind of stuff.This sounds like even the basic deterrence value of visible cameras is degraded because of what was said about the value of recordings in UK courts. From the sounds of it, police response time is not that great. And I agree, the police generally are not that helpful until there is a serious injury.Are you heading towards grills on lower windows, hardened doors, etc? Bear spray around the house? (I have a can in both cars and not for bears!).I grew up in a low income housing project (estate in UK I think) and while it was a rough neighborhood, no one bothered breaking in to steal. And I saw what it meant to become a target. I am truly sympathetic.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 09:54:12 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 24, 2024, 08:46:55 amYes, that is it. There were hundreds (very rough estimate) of CCTV cameras (and related things, such as NVRs etc), for sale on Amazon UK. All (or just about all) at arguably affordable prices. Most seem to be in the £20 .. £60 range per camera, unless you go for some of the rather high end features, such as very high resolution etc.The makes and features, didn't make a lot of sense to me....So yes, a beginner.Near top of my list now, is to look into reputable profession CCTV installers, and probably go with a somewhat small (low/reasonable cost), package.So, something like a 4 camera setup, with a NVR (other possible options, could still be good), made from reputable well known equipment manufacturers, which should ensure its maintainability and serviceability, for the next 10 years or so.Really, some of the cameras are probably best placed high up, which I don't want to get involved with myself (but thanks for the posters, who gave tips on how to approach it, safely).Also, the very experienced, CCTV installation expert (hopefully), will know from their many years or decades of experience, where to place the cameras (and how many), to get, vantage points, to see most of the useful action.Taking into account, where the existing security and other types of night lighting is.Also, without spending excessive amounts of money, on non-useful CCTV camera features, in my situation. Will know the most appropriate camera types, to put, into the various positions.I suspect a (perhaps) 4 camera solution, with NVR, and good quality equipment. Won't cost that much, to get, professionally installed.Even if I did it myself, I'd still need to pay for the equipment and pay for someone to go up high and install them.I don't really want to explain why (privacy), but going up ladders, beyond a few feet (maybe a small amount higher for a very short period of time), is not likely to be done by me. It is not just a matter of me not wanting to go higher.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 10:18:21 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on June 24, 2024, 09:45:05 amI still had some older generation, doors (but some were/are already modern types). Which are relatively weak, and somewhat easy for burglars to get through (which I didn't really appreciate, until AFTER the attempted break-in). They also, weaken, as they get older (depending on the type and materials, used to make the door).I should have been much more proactive, and updated any such doors, to the more modern door types. Which can be considerably more resistant, against burglaries.It is not necessarily a bad area, as such. But roaming criminals (in some cases, apparently criminals vary as to what type of dwellings, they are going to attempt to break into), can readily see what your door types are, and specifically target, any homes, with older, much less secure door types. Which might also involve them wondering/climbing, into the rear garden/yard/area of properties, and maybe even pushing/pulling on doors, to see how secure they feel.To me, those older style doors, seemed fine and felt secure (enough). But I've now learnt, and heard from talking to people, and the internet. That they are NOT, especially secure, and perhaps should be replaced, regardless of whether you have had trouble or not yet.One door and similar, has already been partially improved (strengthened) for now, some others, serviced/improved and sometimes strengthened and I'm in the middle, of having even better doors (modern ones) put in, where applicable. Which give, considerably better strength and resistance to burglary attempts.Really, I knew some doors, were not in 100% brilliant condition, so elements of putting things off, that should be done (procrastination etc), are seemingly present. Hence (one of), the reasons, I said earlier, I have to accept, some of the blame.In a perfect world, we wouldn't need doors, let alone robust, modern secure ones. But in practice, I was perhaps too confident and complacent, and perhaps subconsciously thought, something on the lines of "it will never happen to me, will it?".

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 11:23:34 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 24, 2024, 09:16:22 amIn this case, the police know exactly who it is.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 11:40:37 am
content: Quote from: Postal2 on June 24, 2024, 11:23:34 amIt wouldn't surprise me. But it really needs hard evidence, to prove it, to the Police and courts, if necessary.Even if I found them (as I have a reasonable idea what, at least some of the culprits look like). I wouldn't really be able to prove it (at the moment, without working/active CCTV and/or other things), unless they owned up to doing it.Unfortunately, in the UK these days, I seem to hear, that there are way, way more crimes committed, than available prison spaces. So, a lot of criminals, get away with it. Even if caught.Really, just like with accidents, illnesses or ones health or life. Prevention of harm, is much more preferable than dealing with the aftermath.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 12:08:22 pm
content: How about a remote controlled laser turret? A few watts of laser light applied to the eyes for a split second would make them far less effective as thieves.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 12:15:13 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 24, 2024, 12:08:22 pmFollowing ideas, not necessarily mine, but could be from people in this thread.Maybe I'm too nice. But something like an older/unused PC, with some old webcam or something, positioned to see through a window, or something. Would be a quick, relatively easy, way of at least making me feel better, and possibly catching them, if they return.There are other similar solutions, such as leaving an old mobile phone on video camera mode or similar, poking through a window.I'll see what I can quickly lash up.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 12:48:26 pm
content: QuoteAbsolutely not. The people carrying the blame are the ones breaking in, not the victims of those break-ins.It's all very well thinking you could have made this or that more secure, but the fact is that you're not a thieving git and thus don't see the opportunities available to them. For instance, once upon a time we had a garage built and ensured the swing doors had decent locks. Then some gits broke into it by grabbing the handles and shaking the door until the static bolts came loose. Not something I would have thought of trying. So we removed the door handles (now we can only open them by putting the key in the lock and using that as a handle - a right pain), and two weeks later they broke in again (as the police will tell you they will - they wait for you to replace stuff on insurance and then come back to nick that as well). This time they came in a window, so now the garage has shutters across all the nice windows so it's dark inside instead of having decent light to work in.I think the single thing that made us more secure was reducing the possibility for opportunistic thieving. Our drive used to be open but now has electric gates, and I'm sure that's made a difference - previously, I have headed off someone coming up the drive to have a look around, but it was easy to mistake the drive for a public road so that kind of thing happened quite innocently.We just had a notice from the local police to say that thieves are walking up drives to try the handles on cars parked there. Doesn't matter if anyone is in or not. Cost of living crisis must be making them bolder.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 12:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 24, 2024, 12:08:22 pmWhat would you say to the person you hit, if it was an innocent bystander, or mixup/confusion, and it hit the wrong people?How would you put it right?Also, how would you explain it to the Police?What if you get the settings wrong and end up killing them?How will you explain it, to the parents/friends and criminal associates, of the perpetrator, when they turn up on your doorstep, with a big lynch mob?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 01:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 24, 2024, 12:48:26 pmThanks for that!If the perpetrators, were really nice people. They would knock on my door, wait until they happen to see me or maybe leave a note, through the letterbox. saying something on the lines of, I thought I would tell you your door looks weak, you might want to improve it.Not exploit the weak door (or garage lock, in your case), to actually break in and/or do vandalism.Quote from: PlainName on June 24, 2024, 12:48:26 pmI think that is a major factor, in my recent experiences. Some crime rates, especially burglaries and stuff, are probably sky rocketing, right now. With some people not even bothering to try and report it to the Police. So the crime statistics, may not even show the true level of crime.Which gives me a partial sense of sympathy for the perpetrators. But not that much, as next time, it could be a person, in a far worse situation than me (for all they seem to care or know), and they (the victim(s) ) could end of falling and having a heart attack, or something, as a result.I'm also partly worried for the perpetrators. They could have badly hurt themselves, e.g. bad cuts, when they broke the window, recently. Also, sooner or later, they could attack the wrong home, and end up getting hurt, themselves.It is a pity, times are so hard, for many people. I hope things dramatically improve, in the not too distant future.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 01:35:54 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 24, 2024, 12:52:36 pmIt would be in an area where they shouldn't be.QuoteIt would be virtually impossible to kill them with a few watts of laser light. You'll have to go up to the hundreds to thousands of watts to have a decent chance of a kill, even then it would likely take longer than would be desired for a weapon.Quote from: MK14 on June 24, 2024, 01:09:57 pmThat would be a good thing, making crime more dangerous would discourage it. Certainly don't feel bad for them, bad stuff happening to them while they're doing something they shouldn't be doing is what they deserve.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 02:02:05 pm
content: Complicated problems require a lot of analysis and complex, multi-pronged solutions. Anyone who thinks they have a simple solution to a complicated problem does not know what they are talking about.Some countries even have the death penalty after due process of law while in many other countries the mobs just lynch thieves to death. it happens daily in Brazil and twice on Sundays. It does not deter the crooks.It is much more complicated than just imposing strong punishments.But people are not inclined to thinking too much so they love simple explanations ("it's all the fault of THAT group") and simple solutions and will vote for candidates who promise the simplest and most effective solution. And when things don't work that way they blame those who disagree rather than considering why maybe it didn't work.Things are complicated. In engineering and in life.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 02:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on June 24, 2024, 01:09:57 pmThey hit him with a slingshot from a distance in order to see who would come out or even lure him out and hit him in the head.About laser... Not so. Make a setup ultraviolet lamps with 120 nm wavelength to garage, masked to illumination. Need about 40 sec for criminals to watch.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 06:01:24 pm
content: Difficult problems. But one thing that comes to mind, regarding defensive devices that might 'punish' a trespasser, is ask this:'What do you think a nasty group of hardened crims would do, when someone STEALS from them ?'I mean, consider an urban setting with several large rival gangs. I'm not a criminology expert but usually there will be 'leaders' maybe 'spys' etc.Heck, probably also have the equivalent of an HR Dept. a humorous but real question.The (criminal gangs) likely, very likely have 'enforcers' to effectively deal with problems, whether inside or outside the 'peer group'.Only things, organizational, maybe missing, is liability, for injuring somebody during the encounters. The limits a law abiding victim has, also extend to the police, as formal guidelines get very complex, and self-limiting.Thus, here in the U.S. I fear there could be a rise in the MOB violence, mentioned earlier herePeople getting fed-up with lack of perceived lack of formal police protection.Anybody remember the old, cowboy days, when there were private Bounty Hunters ?That could be seeing a re-birth as public response falters.Sorry, MK14,...I've been holding my tongue on my usual rants,...(Waiting for others to chime in, otherwise I would not have placed this reply).

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 06:19:10 pm
content: One suggestion I'd consider good, is the purchase of reinforced screen door, that gets placed into a strong frame.The kind I've seen and used is all metal, uses heavy metal tubing, as frame, and uses heavy metal screening...so some air gets through, and also you can see through, when someone knocks, who it might be.I suppose, in a residence you could have that heavy secure screen door locked, on a hot evening, but get some airflow, by opening the traditional wood door inside. (Until bedtime).But the heavy doors I've seen were at RETAIL locations. You CAN, however, witness that type of door, in a hugh-crime area (Compton). It's in the movie, 'FRIDAY', at the dog catcher's house.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 12:57:07 am
content: Quote from: Postal2 on June 24, 2024, 02:05:28 pmMy understanding is that UVC just burns the outside, unpleasant but would heal. A visible or near IR laser causes internal damage, likely permanent.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 09:27:37 am
content: I think the original laser comment was probably made in jest, but just in case anyone takes it seriously...After our original break-in I was looking to add security so designed and made an alarm system. But an alarm going on in a remote(ish) garage and house doesn't really do much - neighbours ignore them (if they hear them) thinking it's accidental, which it is probably most of the time. And it's not a deterrent as such, more an annoyance the perp can easily put up with.So I put in a loud (and I mean loud) siren. When the alarm was triggered this siren would sound for 5-10 seconds, and then therealsiren(s) would go off. We're talking 140dB, all internal to the garage. The idea was to disorientate the intruders, and a practice run was positive - when it went off I was completely unable to do anything, like find the damn key to disable it, and just had to get outside.In the end it got turned off permanently because it got triggered by me, the cats, etc., forgetting it was set or similar. (Now, many years wiser, allegedly, I am having the same issue with the electric fence - if I remember to turn it off I probably flick the wrong switch and it's too tedious to check the lights since I am SURE it was the right switch, and it clicked!, and next thing you know....).The thing to bear in mind with all these solutions is that it's likely going to be the householder 'testing' it's effectiveness most of the time. Something easily survivable without permanent marking has to be the aim.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 11:20:33 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 25, 2024, 12:57:07 amI bought these lamps, but of low power, on Aliexpress, to disinfect viruses and against mosquitoes, midges and flies (which is absolutely legal for a garage). In the reviews you can easily read how curious people damaged their eyes. I'm talking specifically about lamps with a wavelength of 120 nm, they also produce a lot of ozone, which can cause coughing.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 12:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on June 25, 2024, 09:27:37 amThe laser turret would be remote controlled, not automated. When not in use, it would be returned to a "stowed" position clearly not aimed into the space it's supposed to protect.

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 03:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on June 23, 2024, 02:46:03 amI second this.When I had a break-in some pictures from the house next door, posters at the street and a small targeted facebook ad found them and I even managed to get back a bicycle.

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 03:51:24 pm
content: About the cameras,I bought a lot of Ubiquity Aircams with their mounts and POE adapters for cheap.They are old but picture quality is good (1920x1080) and the video stream can beaccessed by almost everything.I'm still looking for free/open solutions to the software side. I used zoneminderages ago...

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 04:52:00 pm
content: Quote from: pardo-bsso on June 25, 2024, 03:51:24 pmI can upload here old solution from "Creative webcam", can be connected to any source. Contains dlls from 1996 and detects movement in a pre-selected area.Here it is. Simply unzip, copy whole directory, use reg-file first and run.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 10:40:38 am
content: Thanks, the advice was good and correct (sourced from member(s) here). I should have gone to a commercial CCTV company and set up some very quick CCTV capabilities. Such as a webcam + PC, looking out of window(s).But in practice, I do really like the idea, of sorting my own CCTV system, and hope the following details, explain how it should give me very basic CCTV capabilities, reasonably soon, details below:Update:I've not had any further troubles, so far.So, (Optimistically), I'm hoping that that is it, at least for many years, and longer to come.But need to (Pessimistically, assume/design for the worse), devise and keep on top of my security solutions/implementations.I've NOT dabbled with the suggested quick, CCTV fixes, such as mounting the wildlife camera. I want something more 'solid' and longer term. So, I'm NOT pressured, into very rapidly getting an expensive/complicated CCTV system up and running, too quickly.Instead, I'm moving into implementing an initial/quick CCTV system, in stages.From this thread, and other sources, also related to this forum (thanks!), plus more research by me. The recommendation seems to be to not get involved with the bottom end (non-professional) CCTV cameras, such as many of the Amazon ones.It is not just their possible subscriptions, WiFi ones (as already mentioned), it is not the best of ways, to setup a reliable CCTV.They tend to be poorer quality, in various respects.So, (better details to follow, in later write ups), I've bought a set of high end, professional CCTV cameras, made by Panasonic, on ebay, at very reasonable cost (tested working, reliable ebay seller, one is even unused, so classed as new) (unfortunately they are these not so small, dome type, but I like their quality/PTZ, and great prices, I managed to get). They are very high end (a tiny/little bit old, but still fairly/rather modern ones, but they seem to suit my needs, very well), with PTZ, with zoom that is a real optical zoom type, 1080P, 40 metre IR illumination if required, full colour, even at night, even if there is only a bit of light. (as mentioned IR Leds if not, 0 lux).Being professional cameras, they (if I believe their brochures), will give nice clean, smooth, auto-focused, and very well light balanced images, even under challenging lighting conditions.They are PoE (just needs a single cable), mostly indoor only, but one outdoor rated one.Apparently full featured network (IP) capabilities. I.e. A webbrowser pointed at them, will give lots of functionality.To hit the ground running quickly, if I understand things correctly. I can give one (or more), a suitable SD card and PoE injected power supply, for now. Point it/them, out of a suitable position(s), such as a window, with the appropriate view(s).Leaving them on continuous recording to the SD card (probably extreme high endurance type).That will do for now and give me time (weeks or months), to setup something more permanent. If there are any further incidents, I know that those SD card(s), would hopefully have footage on them, of the culprit(s).A more permanent solution, later, maybe much later, is to put one camera at the front, and one at the back. I've found suitable potential mounting positions. Would then put 4 way/channel (maybe more) PoE network boxes, front and back (single box would be too much cabling I think). Connecting each box to my (or a) network, so I can see multiple camera views at the same time.I can then add more cameras (via those PoE boxes), at a later stage.I still 100% agree with anyone who suggested getting a commercial company, to sort me out. But I'm still hoping I can lash up something, quickly enough, to meet my needs.If the installation, beyond putting them in room(s), to see out through window(s), ends up being too hard. I will still need to consider commercial companies, to do the bigger installation work.N.B. I haven't spent that much on the cameras (very approximately, around £15 unit, including postage, price varies, as two different varieties, involved), so still have plenty of theoretical budget, to get more suitable (extra) cameras and/or a commercial company in to do it properly, as future options.The big advantage (to me), is that if I do it all myself. I will be able to readily maintain and fix it. As they will be as high as I can reach, with my ladder(s), and I will know everything I've done, to get them working.It will take a bit of time, to get initially working, even for the quick test and setup, as I will need to sort out PoE injectors (they may have additional powering up means, I'm not sure at this stage, perhaps 12V inputs), the network connect(s) etc.But I'd prefer a semi-decent, semi-permanent, but working solution. Rather than very quick fixes, but ones that don't really work out, too well.Because, as I mentioned earlier. Even just one proper CCTV camera, set on permanent (loop) recording, if pointed to a front view. Should pick up >=90% of all incidents/activities.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 09:04:35 pm
content: Two thoughts, relating to home burglary:First; While the rest of the house inhabitants went out of town, for a week of holiday, I'm left to the task, of keeping up appearances, of someone responsible, still home. That's the traditional mode of crime 'deterrance'.Ironically, our driveway is devoid of parked cars and so I diligently keep lights on, and off, with curtains moved open and closed,...in other words, a 'show' of occupation as I HOPE any potential burglers are COMPETENT enough to track this, rather than noticing all the cars have left. That's ironic, and kinda sad.The other point to make, regarding outdoor and some indoor settings, for camera monitors, is that they need to operate at temperatures exceeding 110°. F. That's if location somewhere like Sebastopol, California, but many locales on the African continent as well.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 10:45:14 pm
content: Thanks.I also, need to do more, to make things look occupied. There are many possible steps to achieve this. I thought I was doing enough, but clearly not.Having my initial (somewhat temporary, relatively quickly assembled), CCTV system, will both let me record activities, potentially 24/7, but also have a look around, back and front, without needing to move away from my monitor/TV etc.It could even be setup, to work via internet access.The cameras I bought, should arrive soon.Some people have said, that there can be lots of people, looking for opportunities, to take stuff etc.So I need to be careful, and bolt down the hatches (make it considerably harder to get in, and take stuff, plus CCTV for evidence and other ways of it helping).

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 06:04:55 pm
content: A few notes from my limited experience with cameras:Bird houses:Protect from the elements and thieves. As a bonus you might get videos of birds trying to enter. Get or build one with easy access to change battery or plug in a battery bank.Sheds etc:I cut a hole in my shed and got good view of the driveway, at eye level. Camera was obvious to intruders but hard to steal.Point towards house:I find cameras pointing towards the house are less likely to have false triggers from cars in street, pedestrians, tree branches, etc. And less likely to annoy neighbors.RPi with battery:Battery powered cameras are often off or in deep sleep until low power PIRs detect motion and wake them up. My attempt at a basic RPi setup took way too long to boot. You can write 'bare metal' code to speed it up, my best turned on and started recording in about 3 seconds. Downside is extra complication, reading on forums about ancient languages and getting distracted reading arguments over whether it's real bare metal FW or not.ESP32 with battery:Probably easier than RPi. So small and cheap, you can use lots and get them close to the subject: less false triggers, less replacement cost if they go missing and better chance of seeing a face. Maybe even get video of them stealing your camera.Motion detection:Motion activated lights can work as 'remote triggers' for cameras. Motion triggers light then light triggers camera. Requires a camera that is triggered by light changes not just motion (PIR). Or a networked motion sensor or other sensor could trigger the camera directly.Deterants:Shouldn't take much to get them to pick a different house. Motion activated lights turn many around. I think a noisey gravel yard helps too. I've seen motion activated sprinkler though that seems tedious to enable/disable and may garner some agression once they dry off and return.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 06:48:12 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 09, 2024, 06:04:55 pmFrom looking at other homes, in my immediate area. I've noticed they have got much better physical security, than I have. Better/more secure doors, and improvements, to make it much harder for intruders to get in, front and (ability to easily get to the) back.I also suspect they have much better (outside) security lighting, than me.I don't know the full story, as I can only see the front bits of their home, from the street. E.g. Their CCTV/alarms and rear security, I don't know about, except in a tiny number of cases (a neighbor who told me, some details), and any rear details I can see from where I am.As well as having whatever CCTV cameras I can sort out, looking out through window(s) and/or installed outside. I like the ideas for having extra cameras, for any blind-spots, and to see the viewing, looking back on where you live.The Birdhouse idea, is very interesting. Because I had the idea of putting a camera ina similar spot. But wasn't sure how to hide/disguise the camera. That is an interesting, cheap and simple way of doing it.Also, I could perhaps combine ESP32 (for motion detection) with built in cameras (they can be bought very cheaply, but I need to ensure I get the right ones, for best driver support, as I remember hearing, only some are easy to get working, otherwise, even if they cost a fair bit more).I want to put up motion-detecting systems, outside. So I can be notified, if intruders, are messing around at the front or rear.So some kind of ESP32 (hence WiFi, but wired connection if necessary, for reliability), battery or wired to an outdoor wire, that goes back, discretely, to a (PSU) weather safe (perhaps indoor PSU), the wire goes through a hole/gap/similar, such as a no-longer used fan/vent or something. With Passive-IR, Ultrasonic (distance sensor, pointing at something, if it gets interrupted by a person, the distance suddenly changes), or similar detection technologies.My CCTV cameras have arrived, but I need to sort out some PoE switches or injectors, network connections (new), SD card(s), probably very high endurance and some bits and pieces, such as Ethernet cables, which are long enough, as necessary.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 07:12:10 pm
content: If you want cheap and simple motion sensors, amazon has lots of options. Base station in house that beeps when motion sensors, door sensors, etc are triggered.For motion lights: the ones with solar panels work pretty well. Despite the lousy reviews, I've had a few of these outside for about 4 years with no problems, aside from low battery after a branch in the wind triggers one over and over. Put one in my shed too just as an automated light for myself.I like pointing lights away from the house, partly to light up their face for the camera and partly to obstruct their view of me.https://www.amazon.ca/Degree-Solar-Motion-Sensor-Light/dp/B01LT56KRQ

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 07:48:03 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 09, 2024, 07:12:10 pmGood idea. Not needing to be wired to the mains, as they are solar. Saves, on the installation time and hassle.As winter approaches, it will be getting darker and darker, much earlier in the day, perhaps very dark by 5:00 PM, for the UK, in the next few months.Seeing the item you linked to. Makes me wonder if one can do a BigCliveDotCom on that lamp. Open the screws at the back, find the wire(s)/pad(s) that change when it triggers, because of a person detection. Then connect that to an ESP32 or something.I appreciate your idea, of detecting the sudden change in light, as that is another way, of doing it.I think Amazon have got a sale on, later this month.QuoteIn around a weeks time, so I need to create a shopping list, and then get sorted out.I have heard, their modern day sales, are not really sales, and that the so called sale prices, are the same, you can get at various random points during the year, as the item price, 'jumps' about, erratically, sometimes almost daily or even more frequently.Possibly to psychologically make people, feel compelled to buy stuff?I'd much prefer it, if it was just like Digi-Key etc, where prices are fixed. Then you can choose what to get or not and that is it. No worrying about if you are getting the best (lowest) price or not, or feeling compelled to buy something now, in case you need it next week/month.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 08:31:02 pm
content: Mine ran in the winter in Canada, for at least a few triggers per night, probably more. It has 3 dials. This product looks the same as the PIR that comes with that light. It describes the dialshttps://www.amazon.ca/gp/aw/d/B07GZLS9RW/By tuning those dials, you can get some life out of it even in short and dim winter days.To trigger a camera, you should be able to hack into the trigger wire coming out of the PIR or LED power wire. I'd include some way to keep the camera on until its code turns it off gracefully so it doesn't lose power while writing to memory card and corrupt it.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 09:13:29 pm
content: Just want to jump in here and note that cameras that start recording just after a trigger aren't much cop. Any serious security camera will save the 10 seconds or so prior to the trigger and then whatever comes after, which means it has to be running continuously (but not storing). And it also implies a reasonably sized circular buffer in memory.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 09:22:11 pm
content: Do you know of any wireless cameras that do that? I think battery life would be a real struggle.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 09:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 09, 2024, 08:31:02 pmThe problem with these outdoor PIR sensors, in the UK (not unique to the UK), in my experience. Is that they seem to work, just fine, at night, on dry and peaceful days (no wind).But, in the sometimes very rainy (almost stormy, at times) UK, with much wind too (occasionally). I see these security lights in the area, keep on turning off and on, throughout the night.For now, I just wanted a very reliable signal to warn me, of outside intruders. As I've had several occurrences, of (probably) young people, mess around, hang about, or carry out vandalism, or worse, where I live.Looking round the immediate nearby area (I know I've already partly mentioned this), perhaps, half a dozen homes, in one direction.They do seem to have taken, many security improvement steps. Which is making me wonder, if a number of homes, have had similar experiences, to me.Although I consider where I live to be perfectly reasonable or better. Not that far away (not very far, if walking), are less desirable sections/areas.So if times are very hard, and trouble is brewing, perhaps that is what I'm experiencing.One somewhat local person I've talked about this to. Has said (very approximately), they think there are people roaming about, looking for weaknesses anywhere. Who will then strike, if they find such weaknesses.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 09:51:39 pm
content: Trees and bushes the wind are a big pain for me. I've had some luck by turning down the sensitity and placing cameras and motion sensors in locations where they were effective with limited range: gates and pathways.Another discrete camera enclosure that is on my to do list is a fake rock. I struggle to monitor my driveway without getting triggered by cars in the road. Fake rock could sit near road and look into the driveway.One of my favorite solutions is making friends with the neighbors and sharing phone numbers. "Please call or text if you see someone other than my wife or I on our property."

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 10:06:15 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 09, 2024, 09:22:11 pmOnly dashcams. Might be some but since this is one reason why I would recommend a DVR I've never bothered to take a deep dive (it can be bad enough finding a camera to fit other requirements without this one too).

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 10:08:33 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 09, 2024, 10:06:15 pmThat makes sense. Dashcams: big batteries that get charged often.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 10:10:37 pm
content: QuoteInternally, you can get sensors that combine IR and radar - both have to trigger to generate an actual trigger. Don't know if you can get those as outside sensors.An alternative may be to wire-AND a pair of external sensors in slightly different locations looking at the same target area.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 10:30:55 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 09, 2024, 10:10:37 pmThat is exactly what I (may indeed) want and intend (probably) to do as a compromise, if it is not available, in a one piece solution (at affordable prices).I.e.Ideal solution is one sensor, but which works extremely reliably.Next ideal, is a unit, with two different built in sensing techniques, for reliability.Next best solution, is multiple (perhaps two), sensors, with differing sensing techniques, which I electrically combine, to only signal me, if they BOTH react, at similar times.I'm also worried that cats, dogs and other animals, that sometimes wonder about. Might give me false alerts.Hence why I mentioned Ultrasonic, as that could be at say 0.75 metres high, which would hopefully avoid most smaller/medium animals, yet be low enough to pick up people, just fine. I.e. An Ultrasonic distance module, is pointed at a wall/fence/similar, and will usually return a fixed distance, which dramatically reduces, when an intruder walks past the sensing point.So, a cheap (Arduino like) Ultrasonic Distance module, perhaps only a couple of pounds or dollars or so, on AliExpress/Ebay/Amazon, in increasing price order, by supplier, usually. Which a remote ESP32, could easily interface to (may need voltage level converters), sending alerts back, via WiFi.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 11:19:24 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on July 09, 2024, 10:30:55 pmAs we previously discussed, the best adivice is you really need to get away from the notion of creating a problematic and troublesome dogs breakfast, and for peace of mind focus on a reliable security solution. If you do require a reliable outdoor sensor for triggering either activity detection or for lighting then there are proper and tested solutions available such as the Bosch OD850 Series. Otherwise simply utilise the Motion/ Activity Detection function incorporated within the DVR/ NVR to trigger time-stamped events.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 02:33:59 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on July 09, 2024, 11:19:24 pmI've got a much longer post, following this one, which explains things better.That sounds really good, the Bosch OD850 Series. I love that it uses two different sensing systems, to make it very reliable, that it covers a big area, if needed and the fact that it is a professional piece of gear. But it does cost quite a bit, to buy it. Which is fair enough, for a professional and quality piece of kit.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 02:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on July 09, 2024, 11:19:24 pmAs with everyone else, I'm only getting older and older (then there is health and other possible factors, as well, to take into account). So, extremely reluctantly on my part. I'm having to gradually, stage by stage. Go from me doing absolutely everything, give or take a few things, here and there. To having to accept, in various walks of life, other people doing such stuff.Fortunately, I can still do the bulk of things myself, at the moment, and I'm NOT that old (or so I say and feel).So, there is a (very significant) degree of reluctance, resistance, etc. To me going out and getting things done by professionals, such as CCTV systems.If you knew me better, you possibly would understand things better.Please don't worry, if I seem to be NOT doing what I sensibly should.With all sorts of things these days, all sorts of people are saying, essentially "NO, you should NOT be doing that yourself, you should be getting in paid people/professionals to do it".Anyway, at this stage. I'm just trying to do some (hopefully) quick and low cost experiments, to find out what I really need, as an overall security setup. So I can target my (as with just about anyone, limited) resources, in the best and most effective ways.There are partial (inconclusive) signs. that these intruders, may have returned, and climbed over stuff, to get to the rear. I do sometimes hear strange noises. So I was hoping that some kind of motion detector, would help me determine, if that is still a problem or not, currently.The physical strength of the stuff that stops intruders, going from the front to the rear, where I live, has somewhat recently been considerably improved. So I'm not sure if there is still a problem or not.Ultimately, I have to make some big and hard decisions. One option is to move to a safer area. In the longer term, I was probably going to be moving, anyway.Some homes, in my immediate area, have gone for some VERY high end ways of making their homes, extremely secure. But I don't want to go to such extremes. So, I would perhaps be more likely to move, rather than go that far (typically by having solid/strong types of metal type of fencing all around their homes, along with electronically locking/moving, style gates, at the main entrance). Which may not suit all homes, in the street, anyway.So, my main CCTV system, is a longer term goal, but won't/can't be done, for quite some time. If I decide that moving is a better long term goal, then I might abandon, longer term CCTV systems.So in summary. I'm (currently) rather/very reluctant to have things installed by other people, such as CCTV systems. That is just me, sorry.In the slightly longer term. I hope I can settle down, as to if I plan to stay for a while (main CCTV likely), or move on (main CCTV not likely).The intruders situation, is not the only reason I might want to move. There are one or two other things, that could be improved upon, if not a lot more.Other than these things, I am rather happy where I am.I suspect/hope that in perhaps 5 years time, the situation in the UK (or even the world, in general), will improve, and my area will go back to its relatively peaceful, former times.If things suddenly worsen, security wise. There are various things, I can improve upon, to stabilize the situation.The current (extreme makeshift), 'CCTV' system I'm using. (I'm NOT joking), is to start my mobile phones, built in video camera capability, and point it at any action, if I notice trouble (big, strange noises etc). But so far, all such footage has been messed up.E.g. I was in such a panic, when it happened (originally), I couldn't get my mobile phone video camera recording to start. It has got these fiddly, all too small symbols, you have to fiddle about with, to get it going. Which under the big stress of a real/current 'attack', makes it virtually impossible to start.Another time, I got it running ok. But the sun was shining straight at the windows, so I couldn't get the phones camera, to record anything useful, because of the way too strong sunlight, shining straight at it.EDIT: Fractionally improved.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 03:01:07 pm
content: You might be able to put your camera app on your phone's lock screen so it is easier to open in a hurry.While editing your lock screen, add an email address too incase you lose it.I'm middle age and don't like hiring people either. The rare ocassion I do, their work is usually disapointing. I do lots of renos on my house. Once I consider my income taxes, a trades workers income taxes and their overhead, there is a lot of savings in DIY.I'm basically hiring myself as a trades worker but with a much better wage because of lack of taxes and overhead. I also get some variety in my workday and much needed exercise.When it comes to purchasing products vs DIY, I usually lean the other way. If I value my time at all, it is 'cheaper' to just buy it instead of design it. I often start with the cheap option and in the rare case it's not sufficient, I've learned what I want and I upgrade.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 03:08:17 pm
content: Quotecould be wildlife. We have a pair of foxes living somewhere near here,often see them in the early morning on the garage roofs my flat overlooks,seems its there highway between sevral gardens.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 03:16:49 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 10, 2024, 03:01:07 pmThat is a very good idea (lock-screen camera). My phone, needs updating (renewing), anyway. So, I can probably do both things, at the same time. I'm still of the ilk, that likes to make things last as long as possible. But that was probably a bad idea, as regards mobile phones.In the mean time, I've already practiced, many times. Rapidly activating my mobile cameras, video capabilities. To speed up my responses, if I suddenly need to record future events.I can still count myself as middle-age, with room to spare!. But perhaps, some people, consider the situation, as if I was a bit older. As middle-age progresses, one can detect changes in the way other people treat you. So on the one hand, they are being very nice, giving up their seat on public transport, or letting me through. But on the other, it makes me feel older.The concepts you describe, are also why I'm DOUBLY reluctant to get a CCTV system professionally installed. Because, as well as them coming to install it. There will be a tendency for them to want/need to come out to fix/maintain/upgrade it as well, on a somewhat regular basis.Although, I've been told that if the professional CCTV system, is installed with well known, branded parts. A different company, or even myself, can maintain it, and there is no need, to have anything to do with the original installing company, if that is what you want.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 03:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 10, 2024, 03:08:17 pmThanks!It is (probable) climbing damage, high up, on wooden parts (fencing), right by, the entry point, between the front and rear, access.I can't rule out natural weathering/age damage, and also don't know when the damage took place.Hence the inconclusive nature of it.A locksmith, fairly recently (somewhat immediately after the original, attempted break in), has improved the existing lock(s), added additional strong lock(s), and made it quite a bit stronger, in general. As regards the front to rear, access.There are options, to considerably improve, the front to rear, access security. Which some homes, have done. Essentially, by making it much higher, at some point(s), so that it is much harder to climb up and drop down, from. Also, by double dooring (gating, with suitable distance between the two entry/exit points) it, and using at least one high strength gate/door types. (Door is probably the wrong word here, but gate doesn't quite explain it either, as it is partly/fully door like, as regards other homes, from what I've seen).But I think there is a basic limit, on the security. As intruders, could always, get into a neighbors areas, then jump or climb, into your areas, from the back.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 04:12:02 pm
content: N.B. The following image, was COPIED from the internet. It is NOT a photograph from my home, nor necessarily to scale. But it would give you at least a vague idea, of what my front to rear, access situation is like and why determined intruders can climb over it.Probably somewhat typical of some or many, UK residences.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 04:29:31 pm
content: Tight paths like that are great for sensors to detect people and not have false triggers.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 04:33:15 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 10, 2024, 04:29:31 pmI thought and hoped for exactly the same.But I hope to put any (possibly temporary) sensor(s), high enough to NOT detect any passing cats, dogs, foxes and any other wildlife, activities.But as mentioned earlier, adding battery camera capabilities, is NOT so straight forward. As, by the time the camera (e.g. ESP32 one), wakes up from sleep mode and is triggered into action. The would be intruders, may have already walked out of the field of view.But I think it can be solved, with care.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 04:49:09 pm
content: I think it's best to avoid pointing it where animals go but if that's not possible, some PIRs lenses are designed to be weaker on the low side than the high side. Like this:https://www.infraotica.com/index_files/Page920.htmWhen you shop for PIR motion sensors, you can usually tell if it is designed to ignore animals just by looking at the lens. To see how different lenses act, Digi-Key has a bunch from Fresnel Factory.https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/sensor-transducer-accessories/510?s=N4IgjCBcpgHALFUBjKAzAhgGwM4FMAaEAeygG0QA2AdnkvmpAF0iAHAFyhAGV2AnAJYA7AOYgAvkQC0EaCFSRMuQiXIgAzAE4ATJuaSQU7UnlR%2BAVxWlIFAKz7peuQotW1EJgamUTLvpaJrCnUQIkRPcXEgA

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 05:07:53 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 10, 2024, 04:49:09 pmUnfortunately they (animals), do pass though that passage way, especially (I suspect), late at night.I didn't realize that there were passive IR systems, that were designed to avoid pets and stray animals. Interesting, thanks.As at least partially mentioned earlier, in this thread, by some. The CCTV system, can not only be useful for intruder safety.But also allow a person to be working at their desk (or similar), uninterrupted. If they want to occasionally, look at the front or rear, they can just quickly flip their monitor to see the CCTV views.Similarly, if you are expecting deliveries. Which are sometimes silently dropped off outside, without them bothering to ring your doorbell, is the perception, I sometimes get in the UK.You can use the CCTV system, to check there have been no deliveries, waiting outside for you.Without needing to leave your seat, or lose concentration on whatever you are working on or watching/playing etc.N.B. I fully accept experienced professional CCTV installers, would know all this already, and could fit a suitable system, to just do the right thing, and work almost immediately.But for various reasons (already mentioned in most cases, in this thread), it is still fun and entertaining, to play around and sort these things out, oneself.Anyway, by experimenting, and finding out the extent of any remaining security issues, I still have. I can save a lot of money, by only upgrading the physical security and getting a simpler/cheaper CCTV system, that tackles the real problems.Rather than have to spend a small fortune, solving many possible problems, without knowing the current/latest situation.I.e. I am hoping/hopeful, the original intruders, have stopped/gone away. So that I only need to tackle the 'normal' situation, of general home security. Rather than have to go for considerably more expensive, but much more comprehensive security solutions.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 05:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on July 10, 2024, 05:07:53 pmI've checked on my camera, many delivery guys do not knock or ring.I'm guessing someone threw a tantrum at them for a late delivery and now they try to avoid people. Or maybe they want to make life easier for thieves.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 05:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: Kasper on July 10, 2024, 05:21:08 pmThe trend seemed to start, or at least become much more wide-spread, when we had the Covid situation. In fact, at least in the UK, delivery companies, were even recommended to do that (avoids possible cross-contamination if they touched the physical door-bell), and even if the delivery(s) had to be signed for.They still were allowed to just leave it outside (but with some protocol, such as ringing the door bell, than standing well away from the door, and leaving the parcel(s) to be picked up, at a safe distance, from the delivery driver, anyway, something on those lines).But unfortunately, I get the impression that some delivery companies and/or delivery drivers, continue that trend.I suppose it is just a fact of life, these days. Combined with possibly growing parcel thieves.Fortunately, I seem to much more hear about parcel thieves being a thing in the US (and the famous glitter bomb things), rather than in the UK.The UK, is still fairly safe, as regards parcels, at least in my experience.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 05:36:50 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on July 10, 2024, 05:31:13 pmOn the plus side, we can now be entertained by people leaving decoy packages, recording the failure on doorbell camera and posting it online.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 06:12:06 pm
content: For a path like that I might look at putting an infrared beam across it. About 3' up so it's not seeing cats and stuff, but anyone walking (or crouching) along there would break the beam and be a definite trigger.If climbing over the door is likely, modifying the top so it moves a microswitch when pressed down might be an option. Of course, a strand of barbed wire might resolve that potential and also deal with cats that might falsely trigger such a sensor.If you were feeling creative and had a few bob to burn, an electric fence energiser feeding wires along the top might also be interesting

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 06:34:40 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 10, 2024, 06:12:06 pmThe IR beam, at around 3ft, is a very good idea. By putting some discrete/small reflectors, on the other side (with some luck, they may not even be needed, because of natural reflections).EDIT: On rethinking this. You probably meant, putting an IR emitter on one side and a detector on the other, which can still be fine. I can see what is available.An Esp32 as they are rather cheap, include WiFi, and readily available (I've used them before, for experiment(s) and project(s), which should speed things up), with a suitable very low duty cycle. Perhaps one brief IR flash, 5 or 10 times a second.They may even sell such sensors, as complete units. I've seen perimeter alarms and similar such devices, using such techniques. Which I think, can set off an included remote (battery powered) alarm unit/siren, that you place in a suitable spot, inside.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 06:57:15 pm
content: So something like these (I'd need to spend a lot more time, choosing my favorite options, but this is just an example).https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175350522578?Quote

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 08:27:56 pm
content: That kind of thing, yes. A reflector would be fine if it's tricky to have an active device on both sides.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 08:40:17 pm
content: Also, answering my own question. Which I use to do, many, many years ago and still have it, but it is not switched on or connected.Is to fire a microwave transmitter and detector, out through a window. Which then activates a loud barking dog (simulation), if the microwaves get reflected back. That worked very well, and reliably. As an extra burglar deterrent, and gave me greater peace of mind.The advantage is no need for anything outside, it can work through windows or even walls (IIRC), and it is a ready made, boxed item, that just needs to be plugged into the mains, and pointed through a discrete part of a window (i.e. relatively out of sight from outside).Of course in the current situation, that is not what I want. What I want is the same detection technology, but which sends (e.g. via WiFi), a signal that triggers an alarm inside to warn me and/or event (which of course is a good example, of how what I'm doing is partially messing around rather than using professionals, to speedup this setup).The following, is a different one, to what I have. But it shows you what sort of electronic automatic barking device things can be like.https://survivaldefensestore.com/security/104-electronic-barking-watch-dog-motion-alarm-by-safety-technology.htmlOrhttps://www.amazon.com/Safety-Technology-International-Inc-EWD-1/dp/B00RSOPOHA

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 08:54:18 pm
content: Depends on what your ultimate aim is, but I would think that putting off trespassers would score more highly than recording them doing bad things. If they're scared off then nothing will happen, whereas even if you have a perfect recording it may not help to catch them, and they're likely to have done bad things which you can't undo anyway. So that fake dog sounds good to me (and if you're around surely that would warn you also).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 09:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 10, 2024, 08:54:18 pmThat is a VERY good point. Which I think was my thinking, a long time ago, on similar lines.It was pointing somewhat near to that passage-way, I showed a typical picture of earlier, at the front, via a window. To hopefully scare them off, before even trying to get to the rear.These Microwave alarm modules, can be used for detection:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305534098157Ideally from a seller with a better feedback score, than the link. But the price, £7.40 including postage, for 10! Is rather amazing.I would probably love messing around with those things, even if I didn't end up using them.But before anyone jumps in with criticism. I agree, that paying more, for better quality, more reliable sensors, makes a lot of sense. Such as ones, cased, outdoor capable and ready to connect to standard alarm systems. Which I should be able to adapt, to my needs.One issue to be careful of, with these Microwave sensing systems. Is that they can be sensitive (but much less so), BEHIND the unit, IIRC. So, you can sometimes activate them, when walking past, when inside at home. But, suitable sensitivity setting and positioning, should be able to nearly or fully eliminate that issue.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 09:19:53 pm
content: I think I played with a microwave module similar to that (same kind of price too), but it was too sensitive behind it, as you note. It would be OK for its intended purpose, which would likely be to turn on lights when someone is around, but not as part of an alarm system.