EEVblog #954 - How To Setup An Electronics Lab For $300 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2016, 11:59:44 pm
content: Dave shows you how you can set up an electronics lab for only a few hundred bucks.Multimeter, oscilloscope, power supply, function generator, soldering station, solder, wire, tools, microscope and magnifier, and components.Links:UT136B:http://amzn.to/2hjEmF5OWON VDS1022I USB Oscilloscope:http://amzn.to/2hguCerYiHUA 936 Soldering Station:http://amzn.to/2hjHkcVHakko Tips:http://amzn.to/2gnhcvmLab PSU:http://amzn.to/2gN3AuDUSB Microscope:http://amzn.to/2hjFdpnHead Magnifier:http://amzn.to/2gN4uqSFlux Pen:http://amzn.to/2gnf8Ub0.3mm solder:http://amzn.to/2hjIwx0Lead Free solder:http://amzn.to/2hjMF45If your budget allows: Rigol DS1054Z:http://amzn.to/2gN7JPg

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:06:10 am
content: EEVblog #954 - How To Setup An Electronics Lab For$300$500 did it in 2015!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:19:16 am
content: Good job

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:24:00 am
content: I just realized: I want a purple multimeter!

author: brentab
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:29:39 am
content: NOT GOOD.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:32:15 am
content: "Flush side cutters"?The very best tool for trimming component legs to the perfect height is:PS: This thread is going to cause a lot of arguments...

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 am
content: Actually, I've always wondered how well those "jewelers/dentists" magnifiers work. Anyone have any comments on these ?

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:49:37 am
content: pretty much all dont ship to aus.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:50:32 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 amI don't own either but if "jewelers/dentists" use them then they must work.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:52:12 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 amThere has been a lot of discussions on these here. I do not know the links.These may have gotten a good review because they are in my wish listhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XL70CDE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=20I1QUYFF3Q7D&coliid=I2I280SB48NHCI

author: Vasi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 12:56:41 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 11, 2016, 12:32:15 amAgree with Fungus, nail clippers is what I use constantly. It doesn't last long if you have a lot to do, but is cheap and everywhere.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:12:44 am
content: Quote from: Vasi on December 11, 2016, 12:56:41 amNeither do those $1.50 side cutters.(PS: You can get better quality nail clippers...but they're never going to be tempered steel)

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:42:29 am
content: I would go for a meter that has K-Type thermocouple reading (ADM02 is the one I like and sell out of the cheap chinese meters, fuses on both ranges, backlight, auto off, temperature)0.3mm solder is a bit small for my liking, especially with marginal flux content chinese stuff. 0.6-0.8 probably better. But that said I'm currently using a spool of "Best" brand 0.4mm which is fairly decent.Flux pen... matter of preference perhaps, but I use syringe paste flux (knock off Amtech brand all over the usual pkaces).Magnifier and microscope... I'd put those at the end of the list, if your vision is any good somebody who is "setting up an electronics lab" is probably not at the level where they are going to be using components small enough to need magnification beyond a magnifying glass from the local $2 shop.I would take the money from the magnification stuff and put it towards a hot air station first (perhaps instead of the iron suggested, get one with hot air as well), far more essential and useful if dealing with surface mount, and even beginners are going to deal with surface mount (and should, because it's easier) - or at the very least, for shrinking heatshrink.I would also try and squeeze out another $5 for a cheap 8ch logic analyzer, and use it with sigrok open source logic analyzer software. I get more use out of the LA than out of a scope, being digitally minded.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:59:34 am
content: Dave could do different price levels. Not everyone has the same budget. For example he could do one at the $500, $1000. $2000 etc levelsthis link may helphttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/from-no-parts-to-decent-stockpile-best-approach/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:09:32 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 amSimilar to those I use a lot, they have a second flip down lense that's great for detailed inspection and SMD. ~3xMine are more like the set below from in Daves link but without the LED, there where very few with LED's when I bought mine. Occasionally you need the additional roll down lense for reading poorly printed #'s on the likes of SOT-23.The other type I was advised against as there's no horizontal adjustment to get the lenses adjusted to a proper stereo vision that at the higher magnifications you want.From ez24's link:Focal length can be the issue with these, these are not so bad @320mm but many are 400.I've looked long and hard at these too but the only 3x or a little more is not enough for the very fine work when you want them.Daves USB camera looks a better and cheaper solution for when you really need it.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:28:32 am
content: Quotegood ideafor more videos maybe have a best for digital or best for analog lab setup.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:38:35 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 11, 2016, 12:24:00 amAt first I was likebut then it kinda grew on me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:42:08 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 amMy mate Doug Ford who you've seen on the show swears by them.Not a huge fan myself, I find them annoying, but they kinda work.

author: Koldman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:59:19 am
content: I'm getting into electronics for DIY guitar pedal building and some amp stuff. Is the owon scope going to be ok for this? I did a search but saw some comments that it might be unsuitable. A cheap 2nd hand analog scope hasn't come my way yet.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:08:34 am
content: Quote from: Koldman on December 11, 2016, 02:59:19 amWhich model OWON?I've got some old CRO's that might be OK for you but need fixing.As a Kiwi (local) and an EEVblog member now I can probably do you a better deal on an entry level Siglent.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:34:05 am
content: Quote from: Vasi on December 11, 2016, 12:56:41 amThe Xuron 170 clones for $2 each look entertaining for cheap cutters. But flush cutters are the worst choice for someone starting out:http://www.excelta.com/article/5506-types-of-cutsA semiflush or shear cut is much more appropriate for everyday use and will be far more robust, important when you aren't buying a hardened steel tool.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:15:33 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on December 11, 2016, 03:11:57 amI have CCFL lit gooseneck magnifier too, it's probably the same as yours......ex Jaycar but they don't do that model now. When I need additional light I use it but not often.For nearly all use a headband unit is fine even for my aging eyes and just for fun I tried some $2 2x specs under them just now. Only the focal length seemed to change and for 1.5x (one lense) the range of focal length was much wider without specs (100-300mm). 2 lenses was a lot different, the focal length was 150-200mm, specs or not. But that might only apply for me, my long sight is still great, it's just my arms aren't long enough for close work now.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:28:09 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 02:42:08 amLike anything optical - you generally get what you pay for. The super cheap ones are useless IME. The Donegon Optivisor brand for $40-50 is decent and what I often use. Bonus is the wide range of easily swapable lenses and optional LED lights.If you have the money to spend, you can invest in a custom pair of surgical loupes with quality lenses - at a cost of $800 or so. Surgeons will tell you they're well worth the money. I've never been able to justify that expense myself.

author: salbayeng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:38:42 am
content: Good flush cutters are thePlato model 170 shears, these have nice thick blue handles, really comfy and a joy to use. They are pretty much the defacto assembly house standard in the US. You can usually buy packs of 5 used ones (ex assembly shops who turn them over every month regardless of use) with ~ 4 good as new , and with a few chips in it. Buy them from US surplus places e.g. Electronic Goldmine, MPJA, Alltronics, BGMicro etc , more here:http://www.ladyada.net/library/procure/hobbyist.html

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:58:19 am
content: Quote from: salbayeng on December 11, 2016, 04:38:42 amSeems easier to buy one new one ? $7.15https://www.amazon.com/PLATO-170-SHEAR-CUTTER-piece/dp/B000AS3BLM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481432198&sr=8-1&keywords=Plato+model+170+shears

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 05:08:23 am
content: I did a thread on a cheap lab setup years ago, but I can't find it. Anyone?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 05:47:51 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 11, 2016, 04:58:19 amI think that would depend if you want or need genuine ones or not.Plato cutters are readily available from China (indeed I've bought several carton loads for resale over the years), if you buy in lots of 10 they usually come in branded 10-pack cartons, they are also usually stamped physically on the metalwork under the handle with "Made in USA".I certainly have no evidence to say they don't, but I would certainly be surprised if random chinese vendors were importing their flushcutters from the US for resale :-/But of course they work just fine at least for casual use, indeed I find them very nice. Sharp, good tight point, cut well, as long as you use them for what they are intended, component leg trimming, and not try and cut like 0.1" header pins or something.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 06:51:48 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on December 11, 2016, 05:47:51 amBut thats the problem, you don't expect a cheap cutter to be able to cut the common example of 0.1" header pins (0.65mm brass or phosphor bronze pins) which are soft and trivial for the next step up of a sub $20 cutter. How low should the expectation of a cutter be? Cutting soft materials under 1mm diameter is a very common electronics application.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 06:58:11 am
content: Quote from: Koldman on December 11, 2016, 02:59:19 amWhat price?A cheap 2nd hand analog scope is nice.I wouldn't pay more than $50 for one

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 07:16:09 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 02:42:08 amThe proper ones are big money, several times full the budget.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 07:38:04 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 11, 2016, 06:51:48 amThe majority of cheap square pin male pcb header pins I've come across are magnetic, if that says more about the pins or about my cheap-ass-ness, I can't say.It's not that cheap flushcutters won't cut 0.1" headers, but that you probably shouldn't if you want to keep the blades in good nick.There's not much call for trimming header pins anyway.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:58:04 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on December 11, 2016, 07:38:04 amI've trimmed endless volumes (10's of thousands) of header pins with the same pair of Xuron 170 cutters, their budget line under $10USD:http://www.jensentools.com/xuron-170-ii-micro-shear-sup-tm-sup-flush-cutter/p/114-845http://www.concorde-electronics.com/products/Xuron-170-II.htmlhttp://www.techni-tool.com/892PL1025Thats the sort of performance you shoulddemandin the price range, this is a production quality tool thats used around the world professionally. Sure there are harder tools available from Erem or Lindstrom but everyone I know who's tried the Xuron tools has been amazed at the performance and price.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 10:11:39 am
content: Quote from: boffin on December 11, 2016, 12:44:12 amI have one of the head band type magnifiers, they work very well, but as I started life as a horologist I guess I am used to using them and loupes. Mine came with an led light but that was a bit weak so I built my own with the front of a 1 watt led torch and a lithium battery plus usb charging and protection.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 10:44:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 02:38:35 amI haven't seen those before, Must be a new design.Autoranging? uA, Hzandcapacitance modes? "Off" positions at both ends of the dial....?I just ordered one. Can't wait to pull it out at Arduino club.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:21:33 am
content: Really glad you did this video! It's going to help a lot of people out.....When I started out, all those prices were triple, at least.Question:When did the likes of Mouser and Digikey make it so that anyone Joe could order a single component? I recall their printed catalogs back in the 80's - had one in my bedroom - and would offten look at the parts. But didn't you have to have a cooperate account or something? That would be a great video blog idea - how and when the suppliers open up to the little guy.

author: bleko
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:25:03 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 11, 2016, 05:08:23 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/the-$250-electrnoics-lab-a-suggested-setup-for-beginners/msg265338/#msg265338

author: LeadInMyHead
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:37:39 pm
content: I love my Italian "Hakko" CHP-170 flush cutters. They aren't as sharp as the Plato ones, but they do a better job at cutting pins and component leads. They sell for under 5 bucks on Amazon USA!I stuck two little neodymium magnets to the cutters and it helps to stop the component leads from flying across the room. My wife appreciates that I keep my workspace / her bedroom clean.I also got some Plato cutters from China for like 3$ (probably clones), which I use as my general purpose cutters. Being so sharp, they do a good job with softer material.CHP 170 cutters (5$)https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-CHP-170-Stand-off-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPDG1K/ref=pd_nav_hcs_bia_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=C0SZ0A4RFC42W072Y9HJ&th=1I also love the long-nose pliers that CHP makes. I use CHP PN-2007 for bending the leads of through-hole components and other "precision" work.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: bleko on December 11, 2016, 11:25:03 amThanks. It is hopefully a good reference too. Some prices have changed and some of the products are sold out with the links provided, but they are still available as relisted porducts or are still good references .

author: Koldman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:37:47 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 11, 2016, 03:08:34 amQuote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 06:58:11 amI was referring to the OWON VDS1022I USB Oscilloscope:http://amzn.to/2hguCerlinked in the youtube video for about $1102nd hand analog scopes in working condition tend not to go for less than $200nz on trademe. Saving is difficult but I realize going cheap can be costly too.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:45:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 11, 2016, 10:44:59 amThere are several different names and colour schemes for what appears to be the same, consistently mis-spelled "DIGTAL MULTIMETER", you can pick the NKTECH NK51E, the AIMOMETER F0601005 (or MS8233D Pro), or the WIYSOND WD136B, and quite possibly others.The cheapest currently seems to be thegreen version, at $12.22 with free shipping.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: Koldman on December 11, 2016, 09:37:47 pmThat'll be OK to start with but if you need to use it anywhere else you'll need to lug a laptop along as well of course.You've probably seen my stuff on Trademe and I can do much better deals if you contact me direct as I don't have to shell out any success fees after sale to Trademe.Only you can make the decision to shell out on the OWON only to have what you spend on it unavailable for something better.Give us a yell if you like.BTW Welcome to the forum.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 02:42:08 amIf you've got wonky eyes like me and have fullprism lensesthey are next to useless.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:15:12 pm
content: Dave: suggestionDo not use $ and ! in titles.Links to these posts do not work unless HTML is used on them. It took me an hour to learn how to link to this post.For example here is a link to your post, notice the link stops at the $ sign (someone said ! does the same thing)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-954-how-to-setup-an-electronics-lab-for-$300/msg1088467/#msg1088467

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:24:57 pm
content: I looked at one of the higher-end OWON PC scopes and found it surprisingly good. What they had got particularly right is that it was basically a complete scope in the box, with USB just being used to transfer the screen images. This is unlike many others which transfer ADC data over USB, and so are subject to latency & delays etc., caused by the PC

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:33:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 11, 2016, 11:24:57 pmYes but it is $400. So I think it should be compared to the Rigol DZ1054https://www.amazon.com/VDS3104L-Virtual-Oscilloscope-Channel-Control/dp/B00KFX5C2S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1481498978&sr=8-2&keywords=owon+usb+oscilloscope

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:20:52 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 11, 2016, 04:28:09 amAbsolutely agree. I have tried quite a variety of magnifying solutions for my aging eyes and the 'optivisor' at around 2.5 X mag with the flip around loupe to be the best optical quality at the lowish cost end. I would not recommend the surgical/dentist types though purely on the cost.And really a decent quality magnifier will last a very long time, (unless you don't like caring for your tools!), but how long will your eyesight ?. Heh I used to poke fun at all the older duffers at work with their head band mags permanently glued to their heads when I was younger and didn't think that would eventually be me. Well move on a 'few years' and now I am the blind old f@rt constantly looking for any sort of magnification before starting any job !.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:36:34 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 11, 2016, 11:33:42 pmJust mentioning it as they'd done a decent job on the higher-end unit, so reasonably likely the low-end one is OK, though I've not seen it.A USB scope is not a good alternative to a real scope, and unless you really need the portability, the Rigol is s total no-brainer over the Owon 3xxx, but the low-end Owon, if it's as reasonable, would be a good option for someone who really couldn't afford even the cheapest standalone scope.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:50:54 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 11, 2016, 12:32:15 amGranted, it depends on location and when you look, but it's possible to get top quality cutters cheap on eBay IME. Takes patience though.For example, I've gotten $200+ cutters this way. Granted, I had to wait a few years for this particular pair as they're Tungsten Carbide. Far more common to find ~$60 cutters for say $15 or so though however.And then there's the stamped steel cutters, such as Xuron or Piergiacomi that can be had inexpensively new.FWIW, for those in the EU/other parts of the planet, best to look for rebranded Schmitz as used (i.e. Bernstein or C.K. Tools), or buy directly from them as new (~24EUR or less for common shapes & sizes; their Tungsten Carbide cutters are very inexpensive vs. the competition).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 01:11:49 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 12, 2016, 12:36:34 amGood point

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 01:19:47 am
content: I'd ditch the lead free solder because it will be a waste of money anyway. Lead-free solder depends a lot more on good flux and a soldering iron set to the right temperature. Even though I'm in lead-free territory I use leaded where I can because it is much easier to work with. On the subject of soldering: IMHO a low end soldering iron from an A-brand will be a good investment even if it means not getting the USB microscope and/or head magnifier.I'm kinda surprised the Owon scope has isolated USB. It could be an interesting instrument for making floating measurements even if you have a good scope sitting on your bench!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 01:35:01 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 12, 2016, 01:19:47 amSo what A brand would you get?

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 03:56:00 am
content: BigClive has the best info on low-end soldering stations yet, it's good to watch a smooth technique, and this guy's the real deal.**At 12:00 he starts a total internal/external review of the low cost 936 soldering stations **Personal defense dept: When traveling, I bet he sleeps with a soldering iron under his pillow..

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 04:26:35 am
content: Start with a project and build your lab around that. At least come up with a list of stuff you want to be able to do and think about what is required for that before you start buying stuff.Don't find out the cheap stuff you bought first isn't up to the task when you actually need to use it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 05:25:24 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on December 12, 2016, 04:26:35 amYep. I wouldn't have said a microscope is essential for a newbie. Magnifying glass, yes, but not microscope.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:27:08 am
content: Whatever you get in the way of magnification, make sure it is NOT hand held. Hands-on electronics requires 3 hands a lot of the time, which is doable. Finding a fourth hand will be a challenge.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:01:17 am
content: A transistor-tester is good value at $15AU. measure caps and inductors, and identify the pinouts and basic parameters of bjts, diodes, mosfets and - importantly if they're still working after being wired up incorrectly and after accidental over-current or ESD. It also helps free up the multi-meter for some tasks, so the meter can remain hooked up to a circuit.I really like seeing the signal-generator mentioned. Everyone has an intuition about what an oscilloscope does - measure signals in the time-domain. But sig-gens kind of need to be demystified since they're so damn useful.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:06:43 am
content: Quoteif you can find one? for under $25 . cheap goose-neck magnifying glass with 18 warm white LED's gives binocular visioncheap goose-neck magnifying glass yes it is made with glass. & has 18 warm white LEDs gives true 2X stereoscopic binocular vision and its also cheap at $25AU . went out and got a second unit in 2015. their that good to use. kids love em.optimum binocular focus is at 180mm , 100mm from the lens to the work. unfortunately some of the LED's are now failing in 2016. as the 5volt at 800ma plug-pack drive is too high. so I added a diode as an inline voltage droper. note- avoid magnifying plastic lenses, the first clean of a plastic lens will scratch it. I do not like Cold bluey white LED's.http://www.hobbysew.com.au/lighting/led-lights/triumph/led-desktop-magnifying-lamp.aspxthe new 2016 lamp model is not so cheap. au dollar exchange rate in 2016most of the white framed glass lens magnifyers with a ring of 18 or more LED's are not cheap. as their made for dermatology work.IMO you need minimum of 8 or more LED's in your magnifying glass ring for electronics work.cheap $20AU USB microscope is for SMD type work, and image capture. but I also use the big magnifying glass too.cheap $8 all in one component tester is also a must IMO then add some leads to it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:48:58 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 12, 2016, 05:25:24 amDepends a lot on how good your eyesight is. many years ago I used to be able to rework a 0.5mm QFP with nothing more than a bright bench light but nowadays need magnification for most SMD work. I've yet to find a decent head-mounted magnifier ( for use when I'm not near a Mantis) - the few I've tried so far either have too much magnification or unsuitable working distance/FOV.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:48:37 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 12, 2016, 09:48:58 amI've been shorted sighted from a young age and used to be able to focus down to very short distances; I could even read a book that was pressed against the end of my nose. Very handy when working on small stuff and I always wondered why other people needed magnifiers and microscopes. 30 years later I understand

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:28:48 pm
content: I would add a few cheap items:Two scalpel for cutting PCB traces and plastic.Wire stripperFlux in a syringe10W resistors, a few pieces, few value between 1-100 Ohm.crocodiles, bananas,snakes,wiresFire extinguisher and first aid kit. No I'm not kidding.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:34:42 pm
content: If you're on a very fixed budget, then the most important thing after the basics is to leave spare cash for stuff you find you need once you start doing things.An easily positonable bench light is also essential - this IKEA one is good:.http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/lighting/work-lamps/jansj%C3%B6-led-work-lamp-black-art-00169659/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 12:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 12, 2016, 01:35:01 amOver here Ersa is easy to get and according to my experience better than Weller and JBC but either way it will take a major part of the budget. Then again: without a good soldering iron you can't really do anything with electronics.Regarding lighting and magnification: a magnifier lamp provides both but you'll need to get one with a lense of 5 diopter.

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 02:55:04 pm
content: It is my impression that all those Hakko clone soldering stations have picked up in price. Some time ago you could find them on ebay for $15-25, but nowadays the sell for around $40 or more.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 03:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on December 12, 2016, 02:55:04 pm$18 + $9 shippingfrom Hobbyking in the US.

author: dardosordi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 05:27:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 11, 2016, 02:38:35 amI really want one now! Please Dave, have the eevblog dmm (the next one) with holster color options!

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 05:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 03:56:59 pmYou can't find it at this price at the usual places like ebay or banggood.Actually it is quite hard to find any 936 clone at all nowadays, and the few sellers that still stock it will sell it at $40+Looks like the new cheap station of the month is this one:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/908-220V-60W-Electric-Soldering-Station-Iron-Thermostat-for-SMT-SMD-Weld-New-/122238761140?hash=item1c75ff78b4:g:Yj8AAOSwXeJYNVZY

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 05:35:31 pm
content: I prefer blue DMMs (ifI would care for the color :-) )10 years ago I almost never used a magnifier, not strange because I was younger and heavy addicted to tubes. Today I do a lot of SMD and at 53 my eyes are not the best anymore and I use a Velleman magnifierI use if for 2 years now on a daily base for my work. I removed the extra magnifier because it was always flapping around in the breeze. The spring from the second internal lens is disappeared but easy solved with a piece of wire. Most times I have both lenses down so no problem. I glued a piece of foam at the front of the headband. It works very well. The optical quality is decent enough (and I'm critical at that point)I miss one thing in the list, invest in knowledge. It will cost you mostly time (and buy the art of electronics)I started with an old analog 10 MHz scope and an old Fluke 77-III. I then made a powersupply with a LM317 and a LM337. A bit later I bought a second hand function generator and a griddipper (i used that a lot) There is one big advantage for having a sound electronics knowledge base, you can repair stuff and that is handy because broken test gear is cheap, often even for free.Buy gear when you need it, you do not have to buy everything at once and you can build instruments too. Besides the PSU(s), I builded a lot more, started with easy kits and later things became more complicated and often my own design, You can build things like L meter, C meter, counter, RF generators (upto 2GHz but the first was upto 15 MHz and very simple), powermeters, 2 spectrum analysers, a poor man "network analyser" , ESR meters etc.OK, today you can buy stuff for almost nothing in China but you learn a lot more from building your own stuff.About the sidecutters, I started with a cheapy, then bought a 30 euro knippex. I used that for 5 years until it became to bad to use. I never really liked it. I do not like cheap tools but I will never buy an expensive side cutter again.I took my cheapy, removed the plastic grips, it was rather soft iron so I could use some force to make the beaks parallel. Then made the jaws ultraflat and very sharp , heated the beaks redhot and then dipped it in oil. Now the steel is a lot harder and it cuts like a dream. I made new grips from a thick rubber hose.About soldering, after a few years and several cheap irons and station(a red weller) I bought a WS81 Weller solderstation, never regretted that. Wish I bought that instead of waisting money on the cheap junk.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 05:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on December 12, 2016, 05:28:01 pmYep, which is probably why Dave said to buy it from Hobbyking - which IME provides better service and much faster shipping than the typical Chinese eBay seller or Banggood, Aliexpress, etc

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 08:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on December 12, 2016, 05:28:01 pmNot really surprising with that huge transformer in it. Just the shipping costs will kill any profit margin.Quote from: fubar.gr on December 12, 2016, 05:28:01 pmSwitch mode supply? Much more sensible.

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:51:47 pm
content: What would be realy nice, is if there is a Chinese dealer that pick up the idea to make a kit of all this and made a real good price for a complete cheap lab setup based upon Daves video...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:55:32 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 03:56:59 pmIs this the same thing, I have this in my cart waiting to push the button - for me $24 totalhttps://www.amazon.com/YiHUA-936-Adjustable-Constant-Temperature-Soldering/dp/B01N8TVTN0/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1481410166&sr=8-7&keywords=936+soldering+station&linkCode=sl1&tag=ee04-20&linkId=0315a6f7cfa128cb1650d22fee39450a

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on December 12, 2016, 05:35:31 pmHave you posted this picture on the "pictures of your work bench" thread ?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:30:03 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 12, 2016, 09:55:32 pmYeah it looks the same to me. $24 with free shipping on Amazon. Hard to beat that -even if it is a Hakko clone. Nice find!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 10:09:59 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 12, 2016, 10:00:23 pmWhere does the actual "work" part happen?

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:41:46 pm
content: Regarding sidecutters:A side cutter is a precision tool that requires good care, no matter how good quality, or how expensive it is.It should only be used on "soft" materials, like copper, tinned copper and the like. It also shouldn't be used on wires above a certain thickness.The aforementioned Plato 170 has a 1mm diameter limit.I personally have 2 or 3 of those Plato cutters for cutting and stripping thin wires, but I also have some el-cheapo Chinese cutters for all other uses.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:52:50 pm
content: Quote from: fubar.gr on December 13, 2016, 01:41:46 pmI was using Xcelite 170M for a long time. It was nice, because I always had a fresh tool. That cutter has a 0.8 mm limit. So the moron co-workers of mine (not just the EEs) were always taking it, and cutting I dont know, 0 AWG wires and sheet metal or trees or whatever with it. After the third time I just did not care anymore. Whenever the tool was not on my bench, I just went to the ERP system, scrapped the old one and ordered a new one from Farnell. I think they went through 7 or 8 of them over the few years. It literally went like this, with the ones, who bothered asking:"Can I borrow this tool? ""Sure. Let me order a new one, so when you return it, there is still one left which is working."

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 03:02:21 pm
content: I gave up on the 'electronics' side cutters decades ago. The edges are way too fragile and many components have iron-ish leads. I have a bunch of knipex side cutters in various sizes and I use the 125mm one for electronics only but after 25 years it is starting to show signs of wear even though it will still cuts wires not much thicker than a hair.

author: Jacko
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 03:37:21 pm
content: I must be the only one here that does not like soldering stations. I have 2 of them collecting dust while I use cheap irons from Harbor Freight - less than $4 each. Not only that, you can make custom tips out of pieces of 6 ga copper buss wire for them. Just file it down the the profile you want, cut to length and install in the iron. They won't last terribly long without a surface plating, but who cares when you can make another one in a minute.Best regards, Jacko

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 08:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: Jacko on December 13, 2016, 03:37:21 pmYou know a lot of us here are professionals, right? MacGyver stuff gets old real quick.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 09:20:12 pm
content: The kind of lab PSU depicted in the video... evokes bad memories!I had two looking very closely like that. Probably many different chinese manufacturers share the kind of look, like often... anyway.Now I am known as sensitive to olfactory irritants. But those things were really beyond smelly.They gave me instant head ache that would only stop when I hauled them in the basement.There, I let them run on 50% power output (halogen lamps are handy) fortwo weeks non stop, in hopes they'd lose some of the nasty stuff when warm.Still, they stunk just as bad and still gave me head ache, so I sold those suckers again - recommending it to be used in a well ventilated garage only...

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 11:55:10 pm
content: I am one of those who, once I got a soldering station, wondered why the hell I didn't get one YEARS before. ANd I wasn't using exactly el-cheapo Harbor Freight level irons.I've said it before, but for whatever reason I rarely see Xytronics stations mentioned on here. Are they not readily available outside the US? I've had mine for nearly 10 years now, still on the original tip, and the basic model like mine is about $50USD and there is a wire variety of tip sizes and shapes available for it, as well as repalcement aprts at a reasonable price.

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 12:14:44 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on December 13, 2016, 11:55:10 pm+1 I got by with a $60 Jaycar iron for years, upgrading to a temp controlled Soldering Station has been a revelation for me, and it was just a relatively cheap one too ($300 aud for combined 60w soldering station plus thru-hole desoldering tool). I cant imagine going back to the all-in one iron!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 01:04:11 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 13, 2016, 03:02:21 pmYou might want to consider buying a pair that either adds WC (Tungsten Carbide) to the steel, or uses Tungsten Carbide inserts in the jaws instead.Both Erem and Schmitz make them, andSchmitz* can't be beaten on price AFAIK for new. Not sure how often they'd come up vie eBay, but quality used pairs can be had if you're patient IME. And so long as you don't get crazy (try to cut wire that's way over the rated capacity), you won't have any nicks in the blades from tin plated steel leads.*Direct link to the Tungsten Carbide cutters they offer through their web-store. FWIW, they also sell through Amazon.de.

author: salbayeng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:20:00 am
content: If you have fairly big hands, and cut through reasonably thick wires upto 2.5mm diameter, then I would recommend the TRR-58-CHP, these are flush cutters on steroids, you can cut through 4 way 0.1" headers in one go, and trim those chunky PCB mount spade terminals.I use them for production trimming as you can usually trim two leads at a time, and it's much less effort due to better leverage. And because of the extra leverage, you can cut plastic (e.g. enclosure boxes) in a controlled fashion without shattering.I got mine ages ago from FArnell/Element14 when on special, but here's an amazon link, they are pretty common.https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-TRR-58-G-Hardened-Construction-21-Degree/dp/B00FZPL6NUThese are made by CHP tools in Italy (I guess they got bought out by Hakko?)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 10:49:12 am
content: Thanks to this thread I found out you can buy tungsten-steel nail-clippers.http://www.ebay.com/itm/272035068660Threeclippers, some side cutters, some scissors, a knife, a file, some tweezers, a thing that looks like it would strip wire really well, a bunch of prodding/scraping tools ... all for $7?Bargain!Edit: You can actually get themfor $5I wonder how good the "tungsten steel" is? For $5 I might find out...

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on December 12, 2016, 03:56:00 amBigclive would never use a pillow.3DB

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:53:38 pm
content: Right 3db, Who knew it was just a rolled-up ESD mat!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 02:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 14, 2016, 01:04:11 amInteresting. I'm just wondering how easy it is to remove the springs which open the jaw. I hate that on cutters and pliers.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 03:17:43 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 15, 2016, 02:08:08 pmYou'd have to unscrew the joint on the Erems, assuming it's possible.On the Schmitz, it uses metal tabs on the inside of each handle/grip, so you can cut those off or even bend them enough until metal fatigue causes them to break off.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 15, 2016, 10:49:12 amFrom the description:"The stainless Tungsten clippers are perfect for cutting the lowest of nails with ease..."The lowest of nails?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on December 15, 2016, 07:54:08 pmLittle toe on foot

author: mcarden
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 06:23:56 am
content: Test leads.I love a good test lead. I have several sets of lovely multimeter probes that are so pointy I bleed almost every time I use them and at least one set with gorgeous flexy HV insulation that leaves me wanting more of the... ahem.What I have completely failed to find though, is some nice Spring Hook to Banana Plug test leads (as used in many a Dave video) at a reasonable price via the Usual Overseas Suspects. The megadollar Fluke kits are out there, but I'm hoping for a Good Enough off-brand one to make my PSU to CRO to DVM to Circuit Under Test a lot nicer than my current tangled web of dodgy crocodile clips.Links or less robust suggestions will be greatly appreciated.--MC

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 04:42:21 pm
content: Quote from: mcarden on December 23, 2016, 06:23:56 amFranky sells them onhis eBay store. Good quality. I just recently purchased more.

author: mcarden
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:58:50 pm
content: Thanks, but the ones I can see at that link are the little fragile ones. I'm after the larger and more robust ones like you often see in Dave's videos.--MC

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 01:18:31 am
content: Quote from: mcarden on December 23, 2016, 10:58:50 pmThey looked ok to me, I just bought a bunch of them and banana cables from him.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 02:36:41 am
content: I can vouch for them. I have quite a few and am more than happy.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:35:20 am
content: Quote from: mcarden on December 23, 2016, 06:23:56 amProbemastermay be worth investigating (i.e. 9000 series for what you're after), particularly if you need/want more than one set of test leads (they're located in the US, but ship internationally). FWIW, the tips on these are sharp enough to make you bleed as well (their Spring Loaded Tips in particular).For leads from a lab grade PSU to DUT, I've come across some banana to crocodile/alligator test leads (silicone wire) that might be of interest (here).

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 01:23:17 pm
content: ^$5 each?I bought some off franky last week. Think i just need the grabber to grabber or croc myself.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 05:36:12 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on December 24, 2016, 01:23:17 pmClose. They sell them for 6.75USD (length = 12in, but longer is possible at a nominal fee).Mini-grabber to mini-grabber.Alligator to alligator.