How to go about hiring a number 2 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 09:37:57 am
content: So 7 months ago I started a new job. I am the first and lead electrical/electronic engineer for what has been a mechanical company that used electronics subcontractors. For some reason electrical = electronic and electronic = software, my boss had quite the time with the recruiters getting terminology strait before they found me.There was, even at my interview, the suggestion that there would be a second person to work under/with me in about a year.So they are already thinking about as I am quite a busy chappy already and the company was growing before I got there and intends to grow further. I've been asked to have a think about the sort of person I'd want as a second.We are a mechanical company, in the past equipment was powered hydraulically and by ICE's. Unlike my old employer (engine radiator manufacturer) my current employer sees the writing on the wall for the ICE and also has found very good reception to the equipment they have made electrically driven and customer demands are for more electric.My strength is mainly in hardware design and interfacing with the mechanical and packaging. I can do programming but it's certainly not my strength right now and things that involve PC software and Bluetooth are probably on the horizon.So we are not really sure which way to jump. As a small company there is no one else to shoulder what one person cannot do and it's the sort of environment where being able to pick things up on the job is ideal but obviously I don't have the time to teach someone to wipe their own backsides unless it's specific knowledge.I don't know what university/college education is like in the UK. I am 95% self taught. College in Italy was pointless, whilst the class dossed about I read the text books and here in the UK I am studying a HNC written at times by people who cannot communicate in English before worrying about the technical content of what they write.Now I won't take my one sample of experience with the UK education system as representative. So what sort of people can we expect to hire these days? Is it worth going for someone out of uni with some go getter about them or should we go for someone with some experience? When it comes to someone with more experience we want to avoid of course finding someone that is very good in an area that is not useful to us.My only other experience of dealing with other engineers in the UK is those at subcontractors who generally have been, lets say, lacking in imagination.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 10:08:24 am
content: that is how they found me, they hired a guy that actually read CV's, spoke to the person and then made a recommendation rather than just shower the company with CV's. I think this initial exercise may be in working out what to ask the recruiters for.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 10:54:46 am
content: I almost hesitate to mention it, but you could always try putting an ad in the Jobs section here!As you say you are 95% self taught. You would have the advantage of being able to read any candidates' posts and getting a true idea of what they know - as well as asking for a CV, obviously.Many jobs are filled by employee recommendations and incentive schemes.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 11:12:01 am
content: Well as I explained we want to first figure out what we want but I guess yes the that goes away when someone presents themselves that sounds like a good fit. I was unsure about posting this in the job offer section before establishing what we might go asking for.Posts on here are some help I guess.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 11:37:16 am
content: Do you want someone to assist in sharing the load in what you are doing or do you want that person to do what you'd prefer not to do?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 11:42:37 am
content: A bit of both. I see a need for some PC based programming which is not something I do but we are primarily looking for another electrical engineer to share the load. If they have skills in other areas I do not that is of course an advantage as we both increase the bulk capability but also the skillset the company has.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 11:52:14 am
content: It's an interesting problem to have. Is there any way to shift the responsibility of hiring upstream?What's the upstream dialogue like? Can they offer any support/advice/guidance or are you on your own?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:03:48 pm
content: I would start by listing all the tasks, skills and such that are required to make things work in the area for which you are involved. I would then put an estimate of how much time you currently spend (hours per week or month, say) on each of these areas. After that, pull out your crystal ball and put down the hours you would guess are going to be needed in, say, 12 months' time.Have a look at those numbers and see what share you might expect will fall your way - what remains will be your "ideal" No.2's baseline.You are no doubt already aware of the necessity of multi-skilled personnel, especially for a small team, so you will know to keep the "cross training" mindset active.I do not expect the above will reflect how you will actually proceed - I just offer this as a suggestion to give you something to get you going.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 23, 2022, 11:52:14 amWell it is my boss that will be mainly in charge of the hiring and will likely use the usual head hunter who are good (they found me). But I am to also have a say and he has suggested I think about what we need and talk to people.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:08:43 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on January 23, 2022, 12:03:48 pmThe work share is not really too much of an issue, its the skill share and the level of person we get. I don't think we can ask much of an electrical engineer in terms of PC programming but interest in that area would be an advantage as we would let them develop that. On the other hand getting someone with strong PC programming skills means that they are unlikely to be very skilled in electronics or too interested in helping to design wiring looms.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:21:25 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 12:08:43 pmFair enough.Quote20 years ago, I'd see that a significant challenge. These days it would still be a challenge, but I'd have a more optimistic outlook.Seems to me you will recognise a person who will fit when you come across them.... but getting that person into the interview room will be fun.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on January 23, 2022, 12:21:25 pmI was going to say something similar. A lot a kids are good coders because they did it while still in high school and on their own terms.QuoteIndeed.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:54:39 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 12:08:43 pmI have seen a lot of resumes/C.V.'s for software development/programming jobs where the candidate had an EE background.QuoteThese days I would imagine that software is a major component of electronics? Almost everything is "smart" and has embedded micros?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 12:58:14 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 09:37:57 amIf you hire someone straight out of the education system, at any level, you must be prepared to provide training and mentoring.If you need someone to hit the ground running, and to know what they are doing, and to be able to advise on how to do things, you will need someone with a few years experience behind them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 01:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 23, 2022, 12:58:14 pmI agree. For a second person it is better to hire someone with at least a couple of years experience.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 01:24:31 pm
content: Yes that is what I think as well as it will also be difficult to judge a person solely on what they have done academically.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 05:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 01:24:31 pmWhat is also very important is to do some kind of assessment. Typically I let applicants take a test to see if they actually know what they claim they know. Another option is to invite a serious candidate to work with you on a project for a day. See how that goes. Unfortunately some people are very talented at hiding that they are full of BS instead of knowledge.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 05:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 11:42:37 amYes, a guy who can design interface hardware and a guy who can write the software to drive it and test it can be a really powerful combination. If they work well together, they can really accomplish someting.Jon

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2022, 06:06:42 pm
content: Well the non embedded programming side is more about data log downloading from machines and processing/presenting that information. This could be android, apple or windows but also requires an understanding of things that are maybe beyond those that have fun making android apps. But primarily we want an electrical engineer.

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2022, 01:42:32 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2022, 09:37:57 amI'd look for a college kid, not necessarily out of uni, could still be in. Ask when they started coding or soldering, hire one who started prior to turning twelve. Experienced techies are not looking for the job these days, ones who are are either bluffing or are having issues. This is for the US, I heard post-Brexit UK is even worse.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2022, 08:11:12 am
content: Yes finding people is hard. I was in a way lucky to end up here as things came together at the same time with frustrations at my last job the availability of engineers and the uniqueness of this place or at least it's perfect fit for me and me for them.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2022, 09:44:55 am
content: You have to decide on the job title. Make a job description, task list, requirement list. Even if you are self taught, it doesn't mean that you want to hire someone who is. Because you will be essentially responsible for the hiring process, and the candidate who you select.Then you can go ahead and outsource the searching, or have internal HR do it. I really suggest a pre-selection done by someone else, because I would rather pass on 5 good candidates due to HR idiocy, than interview 100 candidates myself.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2022, 06:42:59 pm
content: That was the point of this thread, to brainstorm on the sort of person we can expect to find so that we can come up with that spec.We don't really have a HR department as we are small. My boss and myself will be the first to see CV's. These may come via a recruiter but they use a decent recruiter that does the sifting for you and seems to be good at matching people to the company.I'm not expecting to hire a self taught person and officially I'm not self taught. I am self taught despite 3 years of college in Italy and nearly 2 years of UK university that have been so atrocious that all they mean to me is 3 letters I can use to impress. I'm not saying that all education is garbage, I've just been unlucky with the only UK university that does distance qualifications.However any amount of qualification does not "make" you smart or mean that you now know it all. Engineering is about as much learning more stuff as producing new solutions. If you don't have a personal interest in you field you are unlikely to be good.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2022, 11:41:32 pm
content: One thing I'd be wary of who the recruiter is prolly more important that your ideal candidate.I mean, often in the field when you don't need customer facing, someone on the spectrum can fill the shoes nicely. However, the recruitment firms tend to hire young women who (sorry, not sorry) tend to misinterpret spectrum for rudeness and disregard the candidate. Seen it happen.To be fair though, it think the awareness has increased and is perhaps less likely to happen.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2022, 08:11:57 am
content: Are you married? And she wants to be No 2?You may have to change your attitude to find somebody who makes a difference. Nowadays we try to build a team. The person should be similar to you and you won't stay No 1 because you arrived first.Regards, Dieter

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2022, 08:22:51 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 24, 2022, 11:41:32 pmI know what you mean a bit. I'd say I am on the spectrum. But the (male) recruiter we use who I only met yesterday is good and will read the CV and think about it. I wrote my CV aimed at one sort only. I had had a few silly offers and seen plenty of job adds that turned me off bothering, so I said "f you" to the world, wrote a CV the way I wanted a little tongue in cheek (I thought) that would be understood only by the right sort of person that i wanted to work for.Well bingo, here I am, the recruiter was impressed and so was my boss. I was somewhat surprised to find that my running my own company on the side was seen as a positive rather than a negative like at my last job but I was also in the game of choosing the right person and did not want time wasters either. Things fell into place and the right type gave me a call and actually told me about how various things on my CV made me a match and why. This guy was not a tick box guy.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2022, 09:12:17 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on January 25, 2022, 08:11:57 amI don't know how things will be structured in detail and when the recruiter talked to me about a second person I said I was nervous of being put in charge of other people. I want to work with people that work with me, not for me. By number 2 I mean second electrical engineer in what is a mechanical company that only 7 months ago got its first electrical engineer. That is why I am interested in someone with slightly different skills to me as well as the same basic skills so that we can be flexible as a team. It's quite laid back here, there isn't the sort of nasty culture you get in many places like my last job. We are a team of 4 if you include our boss who does some design as well and the new guy that is joining as lead mechanical.EDIT: sorry five of us, I keep forgetting the one that never speaks that I can't see from my desk - yea we can practically have a team conversation without having to sit in a meeting room.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2022, 10:44:06 am
content: Simon, have you seen this thread?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/will-be-grateful-for-any-feedback-about-my-portfolio-or-cv/msg3965786/#msg3965786

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2022, 12:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 26, 2022, 10:44:06 amOh wow, he's within commuting distance, in fact closer than I am to work.