Opinions on finish for a plywood workbench top? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:23:29 pm
content: I'm building a few new workbenches that will have plywood tops. Other than putting an esd mat down, would you finish the top in any particular way?I'm considering just a polyurethane coat, but would paint be better? Should I even coat it at all and instead put down a sheet of MDF instead?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:32:03 pm
content: Add any quick sealing coat then contact adhesive down some Formica laminate or flooring vinyl.If you find contact difficult to manage, some flooring adhesives might be easier to work with.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:47:48 pm
content: UseMARINEpolyurethane varnish, nothing else comes close. If you are really serious, use a 2-pot system. You will never get it off!

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 01, 2018, 07:32:03 pmSounds pretty nice. Are you suggesting this specific option because of durability?

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:54:17 pm
content: Regardless of what you do, seal both sides of the plywood at the same time (unless it's extraordinarily thick). Otherwise it will hang.

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:56:25 pm
content: If you want to get serious about it, and the ESD mat area won't be covering the whole table, you can get laminate, epoxy resin or phenolic compound lab table/counter tops instead of finishing the plywood and just fasten them.Googling around will find a few different manufacturers and trade names for their finishes but it's all reasonably similar stuff.

author: rbm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:59:05 pm
content: If you're going to use a polyurethane finish or 2-part that will seal the wood, then cover both sides of the tabletop with the finish. If you just do the work surface and leave the underside bare (because you don't see it), then the table top could warp due to difference in water absorption / release rate between one side and the other.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 07:59:37 pm
content: Agree on the marine varnish. I'd also use MDF. While not as strong as plywood, it will be a lot smoother. Alternatively, you could use something like 1/8" tempered hardboard on top of plywood. I have it on my bench and it's pretty tough and smooth.A laminate like Formica works well but it takes more effort to get right. I have an outfeed table in my shop that delaminated after a few years. Not sure what I did wrong as I followed the directions pretty closely.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 08:02:51 pm
content: You could try a few coats of Danish oil. It penetrates well and is quite protective (and no hassle with brush marks). The good bit is that you can simply lightly sand and reapply to any damaged areas.WARNING: Most of the finishes mentioned here involve flammable solvents of one type or another. They need plenty of time to evaporate before you go near them with anything hot - particularly on a flat horizontal sheet!

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 08:03:32 pm
content: If your typical fake-woodgrain formica is acceptable I might check educational furniture wholesalers or liquidators. Tops can always be detached from their existing bases and re-mounted.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 08:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: zorkmids on February 01, 2018, 07:50:46 pmI have benches with both, they each have advantages. Formica is pretty hard wearing and cleans up well but might be too slippery for some. Commercial grade flooring vinyl is non-textured like some domestic grades but not slippery unless polished.If you're gunna use an ESD mat as well, just use what you like the look of.I have a mate that does flooring and there's always some 'left overs' in his shop. Your local one will have some for sure and likely can be swapped for some beer which at the end of the day will be cheaper than any varnish that you might have to buy.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 08:09:37 pm
content: Glidden Floor paintAfter watching it for years on my porch (no peal no fade) - I started using it for everything, inside and out. It is also a primer. I use it on my walls in my house and in a condo I rent (every room). I use it on workbenches, shelves and used it for murals that I painted on my garage and 4x6 ft outdoor paintings. Painted the outside of my house 15 years ago and it looks like it was just painted.Dark colors are tricky to use.Saves a LOT of money. If I do not like a color it becomes the primer for the next color. And for 20 years I have never thrown out one ounce of paint. If I pick up an unlabeled can of paint, I know what it is.

author: oldnewb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 08:26:24 pm
content: I prefer a thin sheet of hardboard (AKA HDF, Masonite, etc.) on the top of my workbenches. It can be glued down with contact cement. The hardboard is smoother, a bit softer than a plywood surface, and dirt cheap. If it gets beat up, it can be replaced (although my current bench is nearly 10 years old and still in great shape).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardboard

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2018, 09:11:08 pm
content: On my favourite mechanical bench, I simply filled the top and edges of the plywood with (I think) Bondo before painting. It turned out really nice: not ultra-hard like formica. And a good use was found for Bondo!Marine paint = good paint usually.

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 12:15:39 am
content: Quote from: Benta on February 01, 2018, 07:54:17 pmQuote from: rbm on February 01, 2018, 07:59:05 pmI've already built the top with two pieces of 3/4" plywood glued and screwed together to make a 1-1/2" thick slab. I'm assuming that means I don't have to worry about finishing both sides like you're both mentioning?

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 12:21:25 am
content: Quote from: oldnewb on February 01, 2018, 08:26:24 pmDefine "thin" - 1/4"?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 12:47:32 am
content: Quote from: oldnewb on February 01, 2018, 08:26:24 pmI use Masonite on all my benches except I hold it down with pin head tacks, that way when it needs replacing its easy to remove. I haven't had to replace mine either, but if I do it's not difficult.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 01:31:32 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 01, 2018, 08:02:51 pmI'd second that, but say go for neat tung oil instead of Danish oil. Tung oil is one of the components of most Danish oil mixes (along with Linseed oil and other drying* oils). Tung is the most water resistant and chemical resistant of all the drying oils. It used to be used as the finish for laboratory benches. A small bottle goes a long way.It's a little bit more of a effort to apply than Danish oil, but the effort is worth it and the effort is less than you'll have to make for any other finish like paint or glued laminate. Typical application is to apply a first coat diluted with white spirit (for penetration), leave it ten minutes, wipe off any excess with a rag** and leave it for 24 hours to dry. Apply a second coat of neat tung oil, ten minutes, wipe off, 24 hours drying. Repeat for a third coat, perhaps even a fourth for extra durability.It has the same advantage as Danish oil, or any drying oil finish, in that application requires no skill to produce a good finish, and it can be revived by a light sanding and reapplication of one or two coats of oil. The latter isn't to be sniffed at as workbenches lead a hard life and it is nice to have an easy way to bring them back to pristine condition.*'Drying' in this context actually means polymerisation in the presence of oxygen, not the evaporation of solvents.**Beware of any drying oils and rags. As the oil 'drys' it heats up and trapped in a rag can catch fire - it's a recognised hazard in the fine furniture and decorating trades. I soak any contaminated rags in water, put them into a sealed polythene bag so they stay sopping wet and only then throw them away. Alternatively put them somewhere where it doesn't matter if they spontaneously combust like a metal tray on some hardstanding outdoors.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 01:34:08 am
content: Quote from: zorkmids on February 02, 2018, 12:21:25 amTypical hardboard is around 4mm or 3/16".

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 02:01:26 am
content: Tung oil is good stuff. I guess you could even use good old fashioned shellac.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 02:11:58 am
content: Quote from: CharlieEcho on February 02, 2018, 02:01:26 amShellac is a pain as anything other than a sealing coat - thus speaks a man who once French polished a guitar: "Never again". As a sealing coat it can work wonders, especially with naturally oily woods like Cocobolo.

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 02:45:29 am
content: Shellac does get pretty laborious if you want to apply a few coats! Looks and feels nice, though. And can be refinished.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 03:32:28 am
content: If the benches are in a typical indoor environment where there is no weather exposure. I would seriously consider no finish. I have several benches used for a variety of work (machine, woodwork and electronics) that have been left unfinished for decades. While they have developed some interesting stains from various spills over the years they are functionally the same as when they were built. Most of the oiled, shellaced, varnished and other finishes mentioned in this thread will give the benchtop a very smooth, shiny surface. While the smoothness is an advantage in some situations, the slight roughness of a sanded plywood surface has its own advantages. The lack of shine is almost always an advantage.There are two other advantages to this approach. The first is that it is obviously a lot less work. The second is that you don't regret the inevitable dings and nicks that will occur over time.The biggest disadvantage is that it really works best with plywood that has an A grade top surface, which costs very noticeably more than a construction grade sheet which could be filled and sanded to a good finish.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 04:19:03 am
content: If the plywood has an A grade top surface, go with a drying oil finish to seal it but dont try to build up any significant film thickness. If its got defects, then use exterior filler then floor paint. In both cases, if you aren't going for a full bench ESD mat, protect the main work area with a sacrificial surface of hardboard, smooth side up so you don't have to worry about burns, scores and dents.Formica or any similar laminates look good initially, but soon degrade under heavy use. Excess heat in a spot can pop up a blister, as can many solvents, and they scratch and chip too easily. Once the surface finish has degraded, and then been contaminated by flux residue which causes solder dross and other particulates to adhere, they are very difficult to clean.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:07:59 am
content: Plywood is durable stuff. It's used for exterior construction sheathing. You don't need to apply anything unless you have a specific reason to do so. Occasional spills won't harm it. It will last a very long time.MDF is not nearly as durable as plywood. It's heavier, swells when soaked, and not a strong (brittle). MDF is good when you need a smooth finished surface, but since you're covering your surface with a mat, I wouldn't bother. It's also more expensive.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:38:06 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on February 02, 2018, 01:31:32 amI forgot to mention the rag combustion issue, I usually preempt the problem by taking them outside and once dry, combusting them myself - the smoke is a bit strong but at least it's of natural origin. I certainly wouldn't like to have one go up spontaneously in a bin!I've never tried neat Tung oil, I must give it a try (my wood finishing book said it was more difficult to handle). I use Danish oil for finishing (and re-finishing) my speaker enclosures, I love the nice flat sheen and easy application. It would be terrible to spend all that effort (veneering) and then mess it up with a botched varnish finish. There's a lot to be said for these natural polymer finishes. As I remember, Teak oil has the lowest proportion of Tung oil, followed by Danish oil and then (obviously) neat Tung. I always use Danish rather than Teak oil for garden furniture too for its greater durability.P.S. Somebody mentioned Shellac, I don't think that is water or heat resistant (white ring syndrome with coffee cups). It also gets tacky very quickly (think French Polishing).

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:55:06 am
content: Shellac is nice optics but not at all mechanical or chemical resistant.I would consider the oil (thin "coating"), leaving it untreated or maybe a thin coating or acrylic paint. However there are lots of variants of acrylic, some are good and some are not.A layer of HDF is more like a fix for an old table to cover up burn marks and deep dents.

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 12:42:42 pm
content: Huh. I had thought shellac was more resistant then that. Didn't it used to be used to insulate circuitry? Although I suppose that doesn't speak to its mechanical properties, it does scratch somewhat easily.The masonite is a good solution though. Desirable properties, easy to replace if needed.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 01:16:18 pm
content: Yes, it's an excellent insulator but susceptible to damp heat and most common electronics solvents - alcohol, meths etc. It was one of the only insulating films available in the 1800's and earlier, excreted by the Shellac Beetle.

author: BurningTantalum
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 01:24:00 pm
content: I covered my bench with a roll of vinyl flooring that came brand new from the dump. I screwed a timber strip along the edge of the bench that stands proud to bring it up to the thickness of the vinyl. This is a nice resilient non-slip surface. I work on an ESD mat, or a grooved rubber mat (nice because it stops screws and components rolling away,) and a tempered glass shelf out of a fridge because it is non-conductive. Actually, today I replaced the glass shelf with the frosted toughened glass from a shower screen door which covers a bigger area.BT

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: zorkmids on February 01, 2018, 07:23:29 pmNot all plywood is equal. If you haven't bought it and live near a big city there might be a hardwood distributor that carries a high number of birch layer plywood (for cabinet makers). Regardless of what they have, it will be better than Home Depot or Lowes. I remember my experience with tung oil and it was good. In my case I have a birch table top that I made (it was a mistake) that I used tung oil on. It looks nice after 10 years. Trying to get up the energy to screw it to my oak workbench.I would do what some have said - nothing. The last things I would use are shellac and contact cement (I have used both and never again)

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 08:54:40 pm
content: My bench top is made from a solid core door. I finished it with 3 coats of polyurethane, on both sides and all edges. My static mat pretty much covers it all, except for a narrow strip in the far left, which leaves room for my clamp-on magnifier light, and a foot or so on the right side which is where my bench PC is (along with the clamp-on monitor support arm. Also a second section, if I ever git it finished, will attach there, making an L shape, the second part for my OTHER hobby, instead of a static mat it will have a self-healing cutting matI did lightly sand between the first 2 coats. I used a matte finish clear poly, so it's not all shiny and distracting where the static mat doesn't cover.Pretty sure I've posted both the 3D rendering and a couple of photos of the real thing in the "Show us you workbench" thread in the General section.

author: nes999
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 02, 2018, 03:32:28 amI completely agree. I leave all of my work benches bare too. It also gives you the advantage of giving a light sand to repair any scratches. As a hobbiest woodworker I leave the finishes for the projects.I think going as fair as a birch plywood would be over kill. Its a work bench, not a piece of fine furniture. A piece of cheap ply from your local hardware store will do just fine. My bench at work has been in service for 15 years. It is a piece of 3/4 inch ply laid across 2 saw horses with 2 green farm posts across the 2 long sides. It gets used 8 to 12 hours a day from some yahoo that needs to abuse something.Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:56:13 pm
content: I'm confused by all the discussion about shellac, fancy oils, and combusting rags.This is a workbench right?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:15:38 pm
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 02, 2018, 09:56:13 pmbut don't forget that 20 coats of lacquer would look good. But regarding fancy oils, I found that tung oil the easiest thing to use.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:48:54 pm
content: You want a sealed surface so the bench can be wiped down with a damp rag to clean it and so flux cleaner run-off doesn't soak into the wood and leave it permanently sticky.Shellac is unsuitable - it will always re-dissolve in alcohols and many other solvents and 'blooms' horribly if it is ever left wet.The simplest, least effort way of sealing the surface is to use a drying oil. Tung oil would be nice but it isn't cheap. Boiled Linseed oil is cheap but the finish wont be as hard and wont be anywhere near as solvent resistant.Varnish is a P.I.T.A - if put on thin moisture or any solvent can get under it through any micro-scratches, then it tends to lift and peal. Its difficult to repair damaged areas neatly without recoating the whole surface to blend the edges. The harder, more durable two pot varnishes are expensive and difficult to apply. One pot Alkyd varnishes are more user-friendly, but tend to be too soft for a work surface.If you've got the facilities to do it, laminating on a layer of fine weave glass cloth using epoxy resin produces a very durable surface, though it will need overcoating with a two pot varnish if it is likely to be regularly exposed to direct sunlight, as laminating epoxy has poor UV resistance. However don't even contemplate this unless you are able to vacuum bag the whole worktop. Laminating glasscloth over wood is a specialised skill that only experienced composite boat builders are likely to get right the first time. Its also a PITA to repair large areas of damage due to the difficulty of matching the cloth edges if you need to patch it. Small areas of damage can simply be filled with epoxy then sanded flush.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on February 02, 2018, 10:48:54 pmYou're getting dangerously close to surfacing the bench with FR4 there.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 11:29:16 pm
content: Maybe the OP would like a "special" look.Years ago I got some 3/4" special 13 layer plywood from Lowes (no one knew anything about it, but they guessed it was from China and it was cheap). I took a 4x4 inch piece and put it in my dishwasher. I cut sheets into 12" boards, beveled the edges and used them to line my walls to give it the plank look.I hammered, banged, chiseled and other things to distress it and put this on it:https://www.homedepot.com/p/Minwax-1-qt-Wood-Finish-Golden-Oak-Oil-Based-Interior-Stain-70001/100376176I think this stain would work on plywood for a workbench, but it takes a long time to dry.If this is done on a workbench, it would look like a lot of work was done on it. And I think it would look cool. I wished I had another sheet, I would do this for my workbench (that has a rain damage top).Oh a couple of years later the dishwasher went bad and I took the plywood out. It was just a good as the day I put it in.Unbelievable plywood, I have never seen it since.

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 01:15:49 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 02, 2018, 11:29:16 pmLOL is “let me put this in the dishwasher for a few years” the first thing you think of when you get a special plywood?QuoteLooks nice but it looks very yellow. Seems a bit fatiguing to the eyes for such a large surface area.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 02:15:28 am
content: QuoteSince it was unknown cheap Chinese plywood, I wanted to do a water test. I expected it to de-laminate. After about 6 washes, I went back and got 20 sheets. I used it to build a "movable" building (one day it moved by itself for 8 feet because of a incline miss-calculation. I was lucky it did not go over the edge and fall down the canyon. I used two layers for the outside then put on a special stucco. I am proud of it because I also accidentally dropped it a foot one time and no damage. It sounded like an explosion, it is 10x12 by 14ft tall. I had to get 2-20 ton jacks to lift a side because 2-12 ton would not lift it.Just in case you want to move a building: I used rollers made of cement filled 2 inch pipe. I would put rollers under the whole thing and push it to move it. This turned out to be very bad. I was lucky the building did not roll down the hill. A few years later I watched some house movers. To move the house the last two feet - they put rollers at one end and jacked up the other end and force it off the jacks (the jacks were angled) so no danger of rolling. They did this several times and it moved only a few inches at a time.They said my method was very stupid and dangerous. I totally agreed with them.The stain is the most "natural" color I could find. I would use the words brown, tan, gold but not yellow. I spent a lot of time looking at colors and finishes. This is before I used tung oil. I think now it would be a toss up on which to use. The inside walls have a "rustic" look. On regular plywood for a bench top, I would use tung oil. It is good and easy to use, not the cheapest way to go.I used thishttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Watco-1-qt-Tung-Oil-Case-of-4-266634/203369952I am sure you can get one quart at the store.Bet you did not expect so many crazy answers

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 03:24:52 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 03, 2018, 02:15:28 amLiberon (a French company with worldwide distribution) do very good quality tung oil in a range of sizes, all the way from 250ml to 5 litres (and probably big drums as well). As the stuff has a shelf life once the seal on the can is broken it's a good idea to get as small a container as you think you'll use up inside a year.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 03:36:48 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on February 03, 2018, 03:24:52 amThe OP is from the US but you did bring up a good point that I forgot. Air is not good so this is good advice. I put my excess in small apple juice jars with no air gaps.Now I got to "tung" somethingI also forgot to mention - if the OP is in Calif the "poly" products are crap. I have had 100% failure with the best of them. That is why I went to tung, so far Calif has not outlawed tung oil

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 04:02:05 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 03, 2018, 03:36:48 amIt's just a nut oil (which by the way makes it safe for surfaces that have food contact), so if they wanted to go down that route they'd have to outlaw walnut oil, almond oil...I wouldn't put it past California though...

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:00:35 am
content: How's the sighting on your zip gun?California's nannies aint got nothing on ol' blighty.LA/SF is Bioshock compared to London.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:04:09 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on February 03, 2018, 04:02:05 amShhhhh - you'll give the lawmakers out there more bad ideas, and that's one department they DON'T need any help in.As for the OP's original question, I'd lean towards putting a laminate top (formica or the like) on it for ease of cleaning, or, if not that then go with tempered hardboard (masonite) as others have suggested. It's nice and smooth, and as a work surface surprisingly tough.-Pat

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:10:06 am
content: Shhhhh - you'll give the lawmakers out there more bad ideas, and that's one department they DON'T need any help in.Not to worry, we have voter propositions in CA, so when our legislature fails to generate the requisite bad ideas, we supply our own.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: CharlieEcho on February 03, 2018, 05:00:35 amI'm really having difficulty understanding two of those three sentences but, if as I think you're suggesting, your argument is that there are more local ordinances banning things in London than in California then you're wrong. I can have a bonfire, I can use hydrocarbons to get my barbecue started (not that I would need to, here we just rub two boy scouts together), I don't have labels on every other thing I buy that (usually erroneously) tell me I'm going to get cancer if I use it, I can't be arrested for jaywalking, I can have a drink in a bar at 18, and drink beer, cider or perry with a meal at 16 and all manner of other things that I believe are banned in the sunshine state.

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:50:39 pm
content: You seem to have the gist of it.Drinking age is hardly unique to CA. Neither are jaywalking laws, that you can theoretically saunter across a major avenue in the UK without violating any traffic laws is one of those charming Britishisms. :p Although I'd expect you'd be cited, not arrested (in the sense it's used here).The warning labels are a little silly, but of little consequence. California is a big place -- some localities can have pretty restrictive ordinances (like regarding air quality, which is a fairly practical concern) but the idea that it's more restrictive as a whole than other major states is more myth than fact. Certainly more rural states with lower population density have less regulation, which is as it should be. (And the same is true of localities within CA.)The UK has a pretty famous nanny-state approach to.....everything....so you can cherry pick examples if you like, but it's kind of a glass house. (That way the CCTV cameras can make sure you don't have weed, guns or an unlicensed receiver -- or pet.)These days, it would make more sense to make fun of CA and the Valley for veering in the other direction and trying to solve every problem (or non-problem) through 'disruption' of traditional (regulated) industry and etc.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 06:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: CharlieEcho on February 03, 2018, 05:50:39 pmYou might think that, but it's not true. Theresidentsof the UK invented the phrase nanny-state (who but the British would use the word "nanny') because we make a lot of fuss about it. It's because we make a lot of fuss at arbitrary, ill thought out restrictions that in practice we don't have many.QuoteEh? Weed's illegal in a lot of the world, I don't see how that makes us particularly restrictive. There's no such thing as a receiver license or an unlicensed receiver, or unlicensed pet - we used to have dog licenses but those went away years ago (1987 to be precise). We do have ataxthat funds the national public broadcaster and the fact that it's called the TV license is, frankly, an anachronism - everybody knows it's ataxreally. We used to call car tax the "road fund license" - our successive governments just liked pretending taxes are something else.Yeah, we don't let everybody have a gun and those that do have to have a license and a good reason to own one - but only someone from the US would think that particularly restrictive, in most of the rest of the world restriction of deadly weapons that have no other use apart from killing things and target shooting doesn't seem strange, merely common sense. Yeah, we have a lot of CCTV cameras but doesn't everybody.I think that your only cited reference is to a comedy piece from the 70s about a fictional fish license demonstrates the strength of your case.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 06:55:58 pm
content: Worktop I have is just plain cheap shutterply, using the better of the 2 faces as the top, and as I had a lot of the whole board left made a pair, so that I can eventually have 4 surfaces when they become damaged too much. Finish is plain unsanded, as it came from the mill, though I could give it a finish of furniture oil if needed, but stains, chips and burns are all part of it being a worktop. Last one was a complete postformed double bullnose Formica tabletop, but I left it when moving, as it was way too big to move to the new place. Shutterply is cheap enough that a sheet cut to size ( you buy the whole sheet or a half sheet in most cases) is a good worktop, and if it gets too bad you just turn it over, and eventually buy another one cut to size anyway to replace it. 19mm is good enough thickness wise for most cases ( 3/4in for those in the USA) and while it is generally made from mystery wood ( in my case most likely from Black Wattle or Sapele) I have gotten imported cases with plywood sides that are good fir and even some that came with a teak plywood case, depends on the country of origin.The rest of my furniture I prefer an oiled finish over varnish, mostly because a well oiled finish is a lot more borer resistant, and I really do live in the borer belt, so they are a constant problem, eating all untreated wood, and most treated wood as well. Used to be that composite board was borer proof, due to the manufacturing that involved a formaldehyde bonding agent, but these days that is no longer used, and the water based bondings are just yummy to the borer, so they will do nasty things to chipboard as well. Only borer resistant particle board these days is marine heavy duty type, which still uses a formaldehyde boding, though it is a lot more expensive, and an absolute murder on cutting equipment unless you use carbide tipped blades.

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 07:11:09 pm
content: The strength of my case mostly depends on melivinghere, and having been elsewhere. Including London. As to the rest, I'll go for any excuse to watch that bit.the fact that it's called the TV license is, frankly, an anachronismAn anachronism? In Britain? The hell you say!Eh? Weed's illegal in a lot of the world, I don't see how that makes us particularly restrictive.It's illegal in a lot of the US too (arguably all of the US, depending on who you ask) -- the point is that California isn't uniformly restrictive compared to other states, or countries. I think that's mostly a hangover from decades-old debates about early adoption of environmental practices that reasonable people tend to agree on these days (like smog control, recycling, renewable energy and so forth). And our state legislators may turn out some brain-dead laws, but that's practically a qualification for the office across the country.I'm not the biggest gun person, but it is a fairly prominent point of comparison given that CA is reviled by the gun-rights crowd -- but you can certainly own weapons here you can't in the UK. Under the US Constitution, there's only so restrictive it can be.Ultimately what I'm saying is that CA isn't particularly restrictive, despite having that rep -- not unlike the UK being less bureaucratic in reality than all the (aging) humor would suggest.Just like the current BS out here is of the techno-libertarian TED-talk bent. More hipsters with headsets than hippies with head shops now, in the cities. And the farming and desert/mountain areas tend to be as conservative as they would be elsewhere.We're getting a lot of mileage out of a workbench thread.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 07:54:11 pm
content: I would not plan on varnishing a softwood workbench for other than sealing purposes. The last time I did this, I sanded between coats to produce an immaculate smooth surface only to drop a power transformer a few inches resulting in an unrepairable cracked star pattern.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 08:40:21 pm
content: Personally, my last two benches have been plywood finished with boiled linseed. The current one is great. The last one got gross pretty quick.The difference is on the first one, I did 2 coats and then put it to work. On the current bench, I consciensiously put 2-3 coats on to start, then another 5-6 coats spread out over the first 2 months. This involved clearing half the bench, light card scraping to remove the surface scum, and wiping on the oil. Then shoving everything over to the other side to do the other half. So I wouldn't say oil finish is necessarily easier than paint. Esp if you are impatient. I assume tung oil would be similar, but I have been too cheap to buy it (and I think any of the cheap "tung oil finishes" at the box store have close to 1% tung oil in them, unless explicitly stated otherwise). I have had similar results with tool handles and other smaller projects. 2 coats of linseed isn't enough to give a light colored wood significant protection. For smaller pieces I might even submerge the piece in a jar of BLO for a day or 2.I wouldn't say varnish is necessarily a bad idea. I have increasingly been using a Danish oil in my wood projects. This is pretty much just a mix of linseed oil, mineral spirits, and varnish. It seals the surface of the wood with fewer applications than pure linseed (I'm usually happy with two coats) and the varnish doesn't need to build up a surface layer to do this. I wonder if it wouldn't hurt to use a coat of thinned varnish or Danish oil AFTER applying several coats of tung/linseed.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 09:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 03, 2018, 06:55:58 pmPM about off topic subject - South African wine

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:47:24 am
content: I use 3/4" MFD with an ESD mat on it. The mat covers the full width and 24" of the 33" depth of the bench. No issues with swelling or anything.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 01:26:52 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on February 04, 2018, 12:47:24 amthat's a TINY multi-function display!

author: zorkmids
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:15:10 am
content: This thread has turned out way better than I expected.

author: flynwill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:38:29 pm
content: I'll add another vote for hardboard/Masonite. It makes a nice durable work surface no finish required.On the bench I had with it I used an aluminum angle extrusion to hold down the front edge, and 1x2 bit of wood fastened to the back creating a notch for the back edge of the Masonite to go under at the back of the bench. Makes the Masonite very easy to change when it gets messed up, undo the screws on the angle, slide out the old, slide in the new.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 04, 2018, 01:26:52 amYa got me!Of course, I meant MDF!!!

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:49:19 pm
content: I believe the 3/4" MFD is a FeelTech product. The keys are actual Chiclets.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 02, 2018, 10:15:38 pm..and just for fun sprinkle in a few SMD parts to get embedded in the layers...

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:12:59 pm
content: Do it on purpose & put it on Pinterest!