Yet Another DMM Indecision Post - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2023, 11:58:51 pm
content: I'm considering getting yet another meter. I was hoping to get something higher-end, but not sure what the best option is, especially in the lower price ranges.My primary DMM for the past 12 years has been an Amprobe 37XR-A. It's been great for the most part, and I love that it has inductance in addition to the standards. I also have a dozen other meters including the DE-5000 and the new Shannon tweezers.My primary uses are for electronics work on guitars, amplifiers, pro audio, and some more precise stuff like my FUtracer tube tracer. Generally speaking, I don't need 30 digits, but I do want solid performance.If something is available with common TRMS DMM specs plus inductance, that would be awesome. I guess I want a higher accuracy / broader spec version of the 37XR-A. I always use voltage, diode, impedance & continuity, sometimes current, and capacitance, and sometimes inductance. If trying to get inductance included is unrealistic, that's fine. I'm not trying to spend thousands of dollars on a DMM. I'm not interested in paying for the Fluke name either.These seem to be nice options from the Multimeter chart thread (and the 1000 other threads like this one), but I don't think any do inductance:Brymen BM869Hioki DT4282Uni-T UT181ACEM DT-9987EEVblog / Brymen BM786Does anybody have a reason why a bench model might be preferred? From my understanding, they typically cost more, take up more space,and aren't isolated because they usually use wall power.I don't really want to spend a lot on this, so I might trade (or sell) my SDG2042X towards a nice meter. It's barely used at all (probably less than an hour total) since I got it shortly before my SDS2104XP, and then only used the built-in AWG. If I get something cheaper like the BM786 I'll just keep it.Thanks,Josh

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 12:16:21 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 08, 2023, 11:58:51 pmOf course a bench DMM has isolated terminals, what DMM doesn't !Isolation from mains is provided within the meter and they typically offer a rating into the reference terminal of 500V max above mains ground.See image:

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 12:50:26 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 09, 2023, 12:16:21 amOh, that's cool. I read somebody claiming otherwise on this site (I never bothered to research further, Oops). Ok, so the Siglent DMMs can be on the list too. 😉I didn't see anything for inductance on those either tho.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 12:55:31 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 12:50:26 amCorrect.

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 12:57:28 am
content: and of course, touchscreen

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:31:00 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 08, 2023, 11:58:51 pmInductance is a pretty rare feature to have in a general-purpose DMM of any type. If you already have LCR meters, there's not much point in trying to replicate that function. The only feature that I think would be a worthwhile improvement for your usage would be a meter with a high-impedance input function and on your budget, that is most likely going to be a used unit since the lowest price new versions are $700+. I'm thinking of something like a HP34401A or Fluke 8842A.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:36:38 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 09, 2023, 01:31:00 amAll the Siglent bench DMM's offer such.And 100% on inductance as any good set of tweezers can provide useful inductance measurements.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:41:36 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 12:50:26 amA non-isolated DMM would be as much use as a chocolate teapot.Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 12:50:26 amDMMs don't have inductance as a rule.Maybe you should look into LCR meters first. That would free your mind when you go looking for a DMM.The DE-5000 is popular around here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/recommendation-on-a-decent-lcr-meter/

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:44:52 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 09, 2023, 01:36:38 amReally? I thought it was just the 6.5-digit model? Or do the lesser ones have Hi-Z on the millivolt ranges only? That's not quite as useful.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:49:07 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on May 09, 2023, 01:44:52 amFrom datasheet:200 mV and 2 V Range 10 MΩ or >10 GΩ selectable

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 01:51:28 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2023, 01:41:36 amI mentioned in the OP that I already have the DE-5000, the Shannon tweezers, and my Amprobe 37XR-A all can do inductance. Since my Amprobe has it, I was hoping another nice DMM does too. Not a deal breaker either way. I like to be lazy and not have to reach into my meter drawer and pull out another device if I don't have to. 😉

author: GigaJoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 02:35:35 am
content: i would suggest a dual display bench dmm , that can measure 2 functions in the same time, playing with sound amplifiers very much to measure AC and DC in the same time, or AC current and voltage , it kind useful. Sometimes i need precision to match resistors for filters. or so ...200000 count or 5.5 digit qute useful as you can do choose between precision, wide range ( set to 200.00 V - cover all your basic measures no worries ) or speed ( like set 3.5 digit with a few hundreds updates per sec - very useful for spikes )and it should not be a new device ...check this onehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/394614612431, dual displaydisassemble, replace caps, clean the case \ cover ; maybe buttons , display perfect, dont like it will sell in a moment for the same price ...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 04:20:54 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 01:51:28 amYou could tape the DE-5000 to the top of the bench DMM instead of keeping it in a drawer.Bench DMM with built-in LCR meter!

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 05:31:08 am
content: My 2 cents:The Amprobe 37XR-A is decent. 10,000 count plus some bonus functions. But the 50k/60k count Brymens would be a step up in resolution and accuracy and are pretty popular. US warranty support might be a minor negative.A modern bench DMM could offer you a large, color screen with trend information and lots of statistics all at once. Then there is the 4-wire Ohms mode which may or may not be interesting depending on use case and the fact you already have the DE-5000.A calibrated, vintage bench DMM could offer lots of spot-on digits. Everything else is somewhat lacking.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 02:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2023, 01:41:36 amSuch a thing exists. This last Easter we found a chocolate teapot with a little chick in it. Like a hollow chocolate Easter egg, except in the shape of a chick filled teapot. I could not help wondering how much work it was getting the printed foil lined up right on those.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 04:39:30 pm
content: I'm leaning towards one of these 3:Hioki DT4282 $431 on AmazonUni-T UT181A $360 on AmazonEEVblog / Brymen BM786$165$173 shipped from Aus, or $199 from AmazonDiode testing is important to me, and it appears that the Hioki is the best of these. But is it worth the cost difference? The Uni-T looks to be a really good set of specs for the price, but it has the same diode rating as my amprobe, and the BM786 is only slightly better. Would any one of them really be better at testing for leaky diodes?

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 04:53:59 pm
content: I don't see anything the OP has written which justifiesneedingmore than 3 plus some fraction digits.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 05:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 04:39:30 pmWhat diode testing specs are you looking at and do you really mean "leaky diodes"? Leaky would seem to imply you'd want to use the conductance feature, which they all have. I don't see any obvious difference in normal forward voltage testing as they all seem to specify a 3.0V range.The BM786 is bandwidth limited to 7kHz and not all that accurate above 1kHz, so if you are working on audio stuff perhaps that matters?If it was me I would avoid the big-bang-for-buck UNI-T and take the Hioki. However, I'd check and see exactly what warranty and support you are entitled to if you buy it at a discount from seller 'BUGS BUNNY'.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 05:40:37 pm
content: Among the choices I would pick the Hioki.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 07:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 09, 2023, 05:40:37 pmEither that or the $4 Big Clive DMM:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trashy-meters-redux/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 08:18:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2023, 07:51:13 pmlol, I have plenty of trashy meters stashed in drawers, I'll pass on that one.

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 09:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 08, 2023, 11:58:51 pmBench models usually have a way to control it remotely, via GPIB or Ethernet or USB or RS-232 (and often some combinations of those).That's really useful when you need to collect data in an automated fashion.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2023, 10:30:41 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 09, 2023, 08:18:52 pmOn the bench? Both show identical numbers...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 02:19:07 pm
content: I think I'm just going to sell or trade my SDG2042X towards the SDM3055. I think my Amprobe covers my needs well enough compared to the other handhelds. With the minimal price difference between the nicer handhelds and the SDM3055, I don't see a reason not to get it. (besides it being overkill, not really needing it, etc.) Or maybe I'll be dumb and make room for both on my bench. 🤣Also, just to throw this out there... Is there a $500 competitor to the SDM3055 that anybody thinks is as good or superior? I'm really not interested in a used meter, so let's not go there. Used meters are projects, I have plenty of projects.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 05:52:28 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 10, 2023, 02:19:07 pmThat would be Smart, as you'll need all the digits & signals you can get in those Radiation Hardened Thermionic Emission Field Effect Encapsulated Devices to find those Leaking Electrons that were Thermionic Emitted from the Bright source and got lost on their way to be Collected at the Dark sideBest,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 06:05:04 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on May 10, 2023, 05:52:28 pmYou're right, they are all overkill. But that never stopped TEAS before.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 08:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 10, 2023, 02:19:07 pmMaybe knowing these products a little better than you....here's what I would do:Keep SDG2042X for 2 reasons, one day you will need both the output drive capability and the 2nd channel.Your scope FG output cannot compare with a standalone AWG.Consider SDM3045X as it's fanless.Also highly recommend you have a study here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdm3045x-enough-is-enough/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2023, 08:37:58 pmIs the fan noise that bad on the 3055 that it's a benefit to the 3045?That thread is interesting, and hacking is fun, but is there a reason besides price and fan noise why you would opt for the 3045X instead?

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 09:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 10, 2023, 09:40:39 pmOf the 6 Siglent machines I have the SDM3055 is the quietest save for the SPD3033X and SDL1030X before their fans come on. After they do come on, it's the quietest.I'm not sure why folks are so concerned about noise. When I'm in my "lab" I usually 4 computers and at least 5 instruments turned on. The addition of one more does not seem to make any difference. And even with all those things going it's not what I'd call noisy and normal conversations are not in jeopardy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 10:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 10, 2023, 09:40:39 pmSDM3055 = SDG2042X fan noise, not bad but you know, the less the better.Read that thread again, SDM3045X = China version SDM3055X-E = 5.5 digits for the 4.5 digit cost....and no fan !The only difference is product type, set by code and firmware.Here we sell 3045X to repair shops where instead of HH DMM's each repair bench sports a bench meter too.Either model has been very reliable and when you get the customer come back for further units it says something about their satisfaction with them.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 10:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2023, 10:03:24 pmI suppose I could put that extra $100 towards another HH DMM if I get bored. 🤣What program am I supposed to use to edit the ADS file? Does every new firmware version need the ADS file edited, or does that only need to be done if switching between versions?Thanks

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 10:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 10, 2023, 10:21:38 pmNot sure but I guess any decent file editor can do it. The OS is Linux so the ADS file format is one of theirs.Ask Mr Google.QuoteNo just once to change the SDM3055X-E firmware product type for SDM3045X to accept it and thereafter use only SDM3055X-E firmware.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 11:12:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2023, 10:42:37 pmMr Google said any text editor, but it failed to mention you need to use a binary file or hex plugin. I can open it now, but the line starting with "b8 8e b4 c9 9f..." is only in the original version tv84 helped with. Seems like I have to start with that same version and then flash the newest one?QuoteThat's pretty cool.Thanks,Josh

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 11:22:40 pm
content: No I believe the great tv84's product type code can be inserted into any SDM3055X-E firmware for SDM3045X to see it as the correct product type firmware and install it.We have tools to fix stuff should be required.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 11:27:14 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2023, 11:22:40 pmWell, I ask because that first line of code from the original is different in the newest version. It was the 1st line in the old version, should I assume the 1st line would need to be edited again?It's possible I already ordered it...now I need to clean my workbench and make some room. 😬

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2023, 11:30:26 pm
content: You might be perfectly content with an unaltered 3045X and if you later decide toimproveit and have issues take it to that thread and seek any required guidance from the great tv84 himself.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2023, 12:19:07 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 10, 2023, 11:30:26 pmI would hypothetically want to do such experiments during any hypothetical return period...and knowing that I get to mess with it without ruining the cal is what sold me on it. 😉Also, I'm well aware of how awesome the great tv84 is. 😎

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 01:43:00 am
content: I got the DMM in. It's pretty great so far. It was really fast to backup the calibration and then "improve" the DMM. The measurements certainly appear stable with 5.5 digits.I was also curious about continuity test speed since I've seen lots of people complain about that on different high-end DMMs, so I tested it out and made a quick video:Definitely not slow.