Test equipment in the workshop - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 10:49:38 am
content: It seems that I may be able to set up a workshop. Due to space constraints the electronics lab would have to be combined with all the other tools and work being done. Other activities would include some limited woodworking, metal fabrication, resin and metal casting and others. Having sensitive precision instruments in a place where they may be exposed to dust and other contaminants worries me though. I've been thinking of partitioning the already limited space or covering up the test equipment when not in use, but I haven't found a solution which really seems to work and puts my mind at ease. What are your experiences with combined work areas and did you take any special precautions to protect your gear?

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 05:16:35 pm
content: You need for two or three different workplaces anywayclean for EE and some for saw, grinders and welders

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 06:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on August 14, 2019, 05:16:35 pmHaving multiple areas to work with would be ideal, but won't be a reality for the foreseeable future. A dedicated space would already be a marked improvement.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 08:29:56 pm
content: My electronics stuff is in the bedroom. If I need to do something extra messy I use either the kitchen or the bathroom - whichever can handle the damage best.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 09:16:09 pm
content: Sorry, don't know really. I would personally never do any woodworking or metal machining too close to my electronics equipment... nasty dust everywhere. If you really have to do this, I would suggest at least using machines you can connect a vacuum cleaner to. Also, you could add a small mobile partition wall if you can't have a separate room.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 09:53:21 pm
content: Could maybe separate the areas (even within same room) then you can put drop cloths on the electronic stuff when you need to use the wood working stuff.Some kind of curtain like in hospitals could maybe work too.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2019, 10:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on August 14, 2019, 09:53:21 pmI've been looking at curtain partitions intended for the automotive world which allows sanding and painting in adjacent booths. I'm not entirely sold on the idea though.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 07:51:57 am
content: The dust issue should worry you. It will geteverywhere.The only way you will be able to control it is with correct airflow and filtering - and that is neither cheap nor simple.Why not go and look at a local carpenter/joiners workshop, see what they do and what success (or otherwise) they have.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 08:08:24 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 15, 2019, 07:51:57 amI know what the average carpenter's workshop looks like and it's part of the reason for my worries.A mitigating factor is that due to all kinds of circumstances it'd be light wood- and metalworking. I'm very much aware no amount of covers or curtains can stop the dust produced by a full blown wood workshop. I've seen people here with belt sanders and lathes next to electronics equipment so I thought I'd ask how that's working out for them but none seem to have reported here so far.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2019, 04:56:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 15, 2019, 08:08:24 amPoseurs detected

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 07:09:47 am
content: I wouldn't be super worried about wood dust. Just buy an air compressor and blow the dust out. It might require a bit of extra maintenance... but have you ever opened your computer after 2-3 years?The worst thing, IMO, is using hand held grinders. The abrasive grit and fine metal particles can do some damage to plastic. If you've got a band saw and a mill and lathe and a belt/disc sander, bench grinder, well that's easier to contain. I wouldn't worry too much other than the free-hand grinding. The thing with grinding, it's hard to mind which way the sparks are gonna fly and still get anything done, and the escape velocity is much, much higher than with any of those other tools. The grit and particles will bounce off things and get everywhere.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 08:36:59 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 16, 2019, 07:09:47 amThat entirely depends on the equipment, of course. Consider a precision voltmeter, or any test equipment with a fan and internal open switches.Coupled with your points that I snipped, the best solution is to avoid the problem completely.Perhaps one way of thinking about it might be "would you want a workshop in your kitchen>?" and "is your lab less grubby than your kitchen?".

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 09:14:17 am
content: QuoteMy electronics workspace is way grubbier than my kitchen. Up until I finally "grew up" and bought a house with a garage, I had just one bench. This was where I messed with electronics and where I performed most of my "materials engineering," including using a jig saw and router table.This has somewhat carried over. I still do a lot of my finer work in my electronics area, due to this being my largest and most comfortable bench with the best lighting. But it's limited mostly to dremels and hand tools, now that I have a garage. But when I'm doing electronics, even, the floor is basically one step above the trash can, when it comes to creating and disregarding debris in the pursuit of making things work.I've heard people say that wood dust is abrasive. Sawdust simply isn't hard enough to abrade common engineering plastics. Abrasive dust getting embedded onto display screens and getting into twisting knobs/dials would be my main concern regarding problems with test equipment that can't easily be fixed. Thus, I would be more concerned with the grinders spewing aluminum oxide and steel particles.QuoteWell, you can turn this stuff off while you're routing MDF, right? And pretty much all CNC machines have a computer with a fan nearby?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 10:40:21 pm
content: I'm a bit worried about the calibration of some instruments . You don't even want to touch the boards and components inside a 6 digit meter so having saw dust covering the insides can't be any good.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 10:49:41 pm
content: Drop sheets over your precious equipment is a must. Or get the wife to sew up some tea cozy covers for each piece of gear so just the ones you need to use need be uncovered.Equipment with top side venting should be avoided.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 11:06:18 pm
content: Yes, drop sheets, dust covers, etc on your workbench should be fine I would think. The type of stuff you would use for covering a microscope/telescope/etc. I think something to go over your entire bench that could be taken off and put on without too much hassle would be ideal. Stuff on shelving may be a hassle though, so you might have to come up with something custom.You don't want the process of covering up your equipment (and uncovering it) so tedious that it becomes too annoying. So I would look for something big and oversized that can easily be dropped on and pulled off.Or you could just set up your bench in some kind of plastic tent with an airlock if you want to go all Sci-Fi.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 11:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2019, 10:49:41 pmI'm not sure it would be practical but having tea cozies for each device would definitely look awesome.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 11:32:36 pm
content: Time to learn to sew ?

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 11:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2019, 11:32:36 pmI can't wait to see them!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2019, 11:45:35 pm
content: Just drape a tea towel over each instrument is the simplest solution.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 07:05:33 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 16, 2019, 10:49:41 pmPlus bottom venting, where a fan draws air into the equipment through that vent.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 07:13:02 am
content: Quote from: JxR on August 16, 2019, 11:06:18 pmIf you do that effectively, the dust (including sticky oil in some types of wood) will settle on top of the cover.Now, what happens to the dust when the cover is being removed? I suppose it is conceivable that all the dust could be removed from the cover before the cover is moved, but that presumes a perfectly smooth cover with no wrinkles etc.In my experience, a loose cover won't perform well enough, but a rigid cover might, provided there were no gaps around the edge. A cupboard seems the most plausible version of the latter.Now, what happens after the cover is removed. Unless the rest of the room has been cleaned beforehand, the dust in the rest of the room will be stirred up, float around, and settle on the equipment. That's what happens even without a major dust generator; with a major dust generator it will be much worse.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 07:21:41 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 16, 2019, 09:14:17 amIn a kitchen small fat and water droplets become an aerosol during cooking. They are eventually deposited on surfaces such as the wall, cupboards etc. If you have ever had to clean someon else's kitchen walls, you would know how unpleasant that becomes over time.Sawdust can be abrasive and oily. It depends on the type of wood and what produced the dust. The effect on other material in equipment depends on the materials, of course.Some electronic equipment is highly susceptable to surface contamination. I have a piece of equipment that, after it has been in storage, needs to be wrapped in a blanket and turned on for a day so that its internal temperature reaches ~40C. Even though that equipment doesn't have a fan and is effectively sealed in a lab environment, doing that significantly improved the equipment's performance.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 11:56:42 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 17, 2019, 07:13:02 amI'm looking more seriously into both the cupboard and temporary and full partitioning approach. I have the same doubts about covering things up and it also seems a hassle changing back and forth between workloads.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 01:33:05 pm
content: QuoteAny solid is abrasive......to something softer. Unless your equipment is made of wax, I don't think you will have any problem with "abrasive" sawdust.It would be very inconvenient if someone poured gallons of wood chips and shavings in your living room. But if you had a giant air compressor that could blow it out in seconds, then it wouldn't be a major problem (leaving out the neighbors). It wouldn't necessarily cause significant damage. (Have you ever seen the inside of a Texas Longhorn Steakhouse?) So if this was a regular occurrence, you could be interested in an air compressor.If someone left gallons of broken glass and jagged steel bits all over your house, that would probably be a much bigger problem.I know machinists don't like sawdust in their mill ways. And that can cause accelerated wear. I would think it's jamming the steel against steel, plus there are steel shavings mixed in the sawdust. But I wouldn't call sawdust abrasive. Of course, it's all relative; abrasive to what?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2019, 08:07:04 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on August 17, 2019, 01:33:05 pmPTFE in switches and connectors?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2019, 07:32:58 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 17, 2019, 08:07:04 pmOk, go on.PTFE is used for because it is self-lubricating and wear resistant. Wood dust gets stuck in milling machines because of the exposed surfaces coated in oil and/or showered in coolant. I use sawdust to clean stuff, including plastic.* But I'll buy some wood dust sandpaper next time I'm at the store. What brand do you suggest for sanding down PTFE? Maybe I'll have to make my own. What species do you think is abrasive enough? Maybe ironwood?Weirdly enough, all my wood and metal-working power tools have switches and fans and vents and rapidly moving parts. Many have soft start and speed control circuitry. One of the most sophisticated bits of circuitry I own (see Refrigerator's ongoing attempts at building one and many successes at blowing it up) is a welder. It sits next to a belt sander and router and (wood) bandsaw. And it frequently gets showered with grinder sparks from a foot or 3 away, while it's running/cooling, even. I don't give it any mind because it doesn't have a white plastic housing, nor a plastic LCD display, nor dozens of intricate silkscreen-labelled control knobs.*Saw dust with a spritz of alcohol is fantastic for cleaning sticker residue off of metal, glass, wood, and many plastic surfaces. Not that I have tried it on my LED TV or computer monitor. But HDPE, ABS, styrene, acrylic, nylon...

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2019, 07:38:45 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 17, 2019, 11:56:42 amA tall cupboard, which contains both your test equipment and your electronics bench (desk), would be my preference. Something like a tall wardrobe with a pair of large doors (floor-to-top). One full-depth board at bench height, and shelves of reduced depth above. On the inside of the doors, you could mount hooks for cables and hand tools, and maybe magazines for small parts. Maybe add some adhesive dust sealing strips to close any gaps when the doors are shut.If you keep the doors closed unless you actually do electronics work (and especially when you do wood working etc., of course), that should keep the inside of the wardrobe nice and clean. Besides addressing concerns about the test equipment's precision, it also makes it much easier to keep the "coarse" workshop reasonably clean if you minimze the nubmer of gadgets that sit out in the open.