"Classic" Chips - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Jeff1946
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 08:38:32 pm
content: I was thinking about classic chips. Obviously Dave's favorite LM555, 741 op amp, LM7805 regulator, MC34063 buck/boost. Any others come to mind. I assume that something like an OP27 is what one would use as a general purpose op amp now.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 08:53:02 pm
content: LM358...

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 09:16:26 pm
content: The LM339 comparatorA lot of people hate it, but nevertheless is a classic: LM386TL072 BiFet opamp.And we could spend pages on classic logic: the 74xx and 40xx series.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 09:18:37 pm
content: All those are 40-year old ic's, why not something more actual

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 09:50:40 pm
content: What do you mean "more actual"? How do you get much more classic than 40 year old ICs that are still made?What about the 6502? It's iconic, and has been in steady production in one form or another for almost half a century.

author: gingpeakin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 10:08:16 pm
content: LM10. Decent op amp (works down to 1.1V supply) and a band gap reference. Thanks to Bob Widlar What's not to like. Also the old 723.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 10:38:46 pm
content: The Signetics 5534 and 5532, which may be the first successful op amps specifically designed for audio.

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 10:39:19 pm
content: Some classic chips (not in any particular ranking order) that had a major impact on electronics design :(1) 7400 logic family - opened the doors for the ubiquitous use of digital equipment we see these days.(2) Intel 2716 5V only EPROM - made microprocessor systems much easier to implement(3) Mostek 4116 16k x 1 dynamic RAM - set the pattern for microcomputer memory to reach undreamt of sizes (and unfortunately the software bloat that followed)(3) National Semiconductor LM317 adjustable regulator - a clever design that greatly simplified variable output regulators(5) Fairchild uA709 - first practical monolithic op-amp

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 10:42:43 pm
content: Quote from: gingpeakin on December 06, 2020, 10:08:16 pmThe price. It's relatively expensive.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 03:57:23 am
content: 6581

author: gcewing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 05:03:36 am
content: Z80

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 06:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff1946 on December 06, 2020, 08:38:32 pmThe MC34063 is a simplified version of the original 78S40.QuoteThe OP27 and similar parts are still and always will be expensive compared to general purpose parts because they take more area. One thing which makes the LM324/LM358 and modern replacements for the 741 inexpensive is that they are designed to be as small as possible. The OP27 also cannot be a general purpose part because of its limited differential input voltage range, which is a common feature of almost all precision parts.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 07:28:03 pm
content: Need a flashing led? then you need an LM3909

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 07:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on December 07, 2020, 07:28:03 pmVery clever design that. An efficient flasher from a single AA.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2020, 08:52:23 pm
content: Indeed, the LM3909.Unfortunately, it has been obsolete for a while.I also liked the VU-meter LED bargraph driver, LM3916. Also obsolete.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 07:17:29 pm
content: NE567? I seem to remember this one being pretty buzzworthy back in the 80s in hobby magazines.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 08:20:07 pm
content: It just depends on whether it's still useful. The TL07x or NE5532 is still my default choice for audio circuits, the LM358 is a cheap and low quiescent current opamp when you need some basic low frequency buffering, linear regs are linear regs and will probably be needed well into the future with little room to improve on them. Though I'm not sure why you'd want to use a 741 anymore, and the MC34063 is kinda crappy.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:26:31 pm
content: A few additions:Silicon General SG3524 - quite popular PWM controller for switching power supplies. My first professional project.Texas Instruments μA78xx series - THE voltage regulators of the 70s-80sTexas Instruments TMS32010 - the wildly popular early Digital Signal ProcessorIntel MCS51 (8051) family - are they the most popular microcontrollers historically speaking?Maxim MAX232 - at a certain point, any RS232 had one of these.Rockwell modem chipsets that popularized the analog baseband modem era.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:33:24 pm
content: LM723J, LM358, LM324, LT1014, AD8307, PIC16F84, OP07, NE555, NE602, TL431A, LM399, LM741, NE5532, LM393 ,LM339 ,LT1028A.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:42:13 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 06, 2020, 09:50:40 pmI agree with the sentiment. People seem to stick to these ancient chips even though better chips have come after. The MC34063 seems to be a good example. It's a nasty little thing with modern competition both being easier to use and yielding better results. Them being ubiquitous does not mean they're much good.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 09:55:50 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 08, 2020, 07:17:29 pmJust used one in a product recently - to detect an ultrasonic control tone embedded in an audio line

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 10:00:16 pm
content: General Instrument AY-3-8910 and SPO-256These were carried in Radio Shack when I was a kid and made me lose my mind a little bit. I got a SPO-256 hooked up to my C64's user port and managed to make it speak. It was kind of hit-or-miss without the accompanying ASCII to phoneme chip, but it wasn't that hard to tweak it manually either.VCP200 speech recognition chipNEC V2068000 + 68881

author: thermistor-guy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 11:06:10 pm
content: FND500 family, 7-segment displays.2102 family, static ram 1024 x 1 bit. These are still made:https://www.jameco.com/z/MM2102AN-4L-National-Semiconductor-IC-MM2102AN-4L-NMOS-SRAM-1024-Bit-1024x1-250ns-Low-Power_2287991.html

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2020, 11:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 06, 2020, 09:50:40 pmHe/she means “more modern”.In many languages, the word “actual”* means “current”, “up to date”.FYI to all the non-native English speakers: in English, “actual” does NOT mean “up to date”, it means “real”.*e.g. German “aktuell”, French “actuel”, Italian “attuale”, etc.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 06:44:15 am
content: LM3914 / LM3915 / LM3916

author: bogdant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 12:50:45 pm
content: PIC16F84, PIC16F876, Atmega16, FT232, MAX232

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 12:55:43 pm
content: LM317LM13700

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 12:57:52 pm
content: TL431LM320TDA1515if not already abovePaul

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 01:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: fcb on December 09, 2020, 12:55:43 pmif 13700, then it also must be the CA3080

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 01:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 08, 2020, 11:17:55 pmThe brain works in funny ways. With my brazilian eyes, I read the original post with the original intent (actualmeaningmodern) and thought that james_s also understood it this way, not even considering the completely different meaning in English (and I have been living here for 15+ years and know english for many more). Typical neural network behaviour, where the outcome is the neural connection with the highest weight.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 02:11:06 pm
content: .

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 02:31:51 pm
content: CA3140 and TBA810.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 02:44:21 pm
content: CA3161CA3162segment decoder and drivers...LEDs still cause me a very good feeling...Paul

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 02:44:26 pm
content: madires and emece67 - you both broke the unwritten rule - no 4000 or 74 series...

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 02:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on December 09, 2020, 01:30:42 pmSo classic it went out of production, and has been 'reissued' apparently.Anyone remember which IC was discontinued when they lost the drawings/masks?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 03:23:07 pm
content: Went out of production, so what? Many of the ICs mentioned here are out of production. I don't think that being out of production makes it less classic.Like with the BF245 JFET. Once was what I'd consider a pretty classic, now you can hardly get BF545, which should've been its SMT direct replacement.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 05:40:59 pm
content: If one would like to talk about really classic integrated circuits, in the full, extended meaning, one should not forget the K2-W opamp.http://www.philbrickarchive.org/k2-w_refurbished.pdf

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 05:44:04 pm
content: The 308 is a classic, which lives on as the LT1008, LT1012, and LT1097, and there are also rail-to-rail output versions. I miss the LM11 which was an improved 308 but the Linear Technology parts are almost as good and have higher precision.The LM10 lives on as the LT1635.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 06:13:15 pm
content: I would interpret "classic" as chips which made a huge impact. If they did that they are probably still used occasionally just because of inertia, the mass of existing documentation and enormous piles of NOS parts still flooding the market. There are few, if any, 40+ year old chip designs that are currently the best choice for new designs, though there are several that are adequate in many applications.Two I would add to the list are the CD4046 PLL chip and maybe the CD4060 14 stage ripple counter w oscillator.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2020, 11:07:29 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 09, 2020, 05:40:59 pmHere is a review:Hint: It's not rail-rail output....

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 09:29:43 am
content: If we're going to include glassware, then how about the 12AX7?The LM393/339 have been mentioned, but what about the LM311, which has an output stage capable of up sinking up to 50mA?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 09:43:56 am
content: If LM311, then we should add LM319.

author: emece67
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 11:20:44 am
content: .

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 11:35:57 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on December 10, 2020, 09:29:43 amAnd of course 6L6/807, and 6CA7/EL34. In particular, the 6L6 has been in continuous production since July 1936.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6L6

author: Le_Bassiste
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 12:42:22 pm
content: LM741CA3080UAA170/180XR2206ICL7106AD536TDA2003TEA0652CNY17...probably easier to list non-popular ICs

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 12:42:53 pm
content: The 6522 VIA. They still make em!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6522https://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Western-Design-Center-WDC/W65C22S6TPG-14?qs=opBjA1TV9038jNZ%252Bop8JdA%3D%3D

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 01:33:07 pm
content: If 6522, why not 8255 (8251, 8253, .. )?

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 01:49:14 pm
content: Because I didn't grow up with those, so obviously they don't count!

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 01:58:53 pm
content: Well... I did not grow up with 6502 and in our postUSSR country, 6502 was never a thing.Here almost all was 8080 clones or Z80 clones.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 02:44:18 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on December 10, 2020, 11:35:57 amWhen engineers at my former job complained about yet another Maxim chip being discontinued after they designed it into a project, I would remark "I can still buy 6L6s".

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 03:01:07 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 08, 2020, 10:00:16 pmThat GI chip was the most sophisticated sound chip that I could get my hands on..better than the available TI chips. The GI chip literally proved to me that I did not understand music no matter how much I loved to listen....didn't even bother trying with the SID chip.I think that the 8912 was what was carried at RS and it is listed here as the most widely used varianthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_AY-3-8910#VariantsLater, I tried to convince Yamaha to send me samples of their 'new' sound chips, but they would have none of that - despite my "creative explanations", they, apparently, concluded that a guy from a medical research institute did not need samples of our sound chips.Here is my All-Shack project from 1987/8 with on-board amplifier (LM386) and ready to run from a PC parallel port - I was quite happy with it at the time. I even dug up a demo program that I wrote in Borland's Turbo C. BTW, 32-33 years later, I still can't cut a circle for a plastic caseCode:void c_chord(){reset();load(7,248);/* enable tones on A,B,C*/load(12,80);/* envelop coarse [about 0.4 Hz]*/load(8,16);/* amplitude of a on envelope control*/load(1,1);/* C-4 MSB*/load(0,172);/* C-4 LSB on a*/load(13,0);/* envelope shape/cycle[long delay]*/timer(250);/* wait*/load(3,1);/* E-4 MSB*/load(2,83);/* E-4 LSB on b*/load(9,16);/* amplitude of b on envelope control*/load(13,0);/* envelope shape/cycle[long delay]*/timer(250);/* wait*/load(5,1);/* G-4 MSB*/load(4,29);/* G-4 LSB on c*/load(10,16);/* amplitude of c on envelope control*/load(13,0);/* trigger*/timer(1700);/* wait*/load(13,0);/* trigger all three*/timer(1850);/* wait*/reset();}Good times, thanks

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 03:19:36 pm
content: TBA120TDA2020 TDA203 and family8051 family and especially 8052-ah-basic. single chip microcontroller with 8k floating point basic on board. and not one of those namby pamby second sources. real intel with mask rom !

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 06:24:12 pm
content: The difference between a 6L6 or any other tube vs the K2-W is that the K2-W is not a component but a functional block.The circuit comprised of active devices plus several passives (including neon lamp level shifter) are integrated into a package. This package becomes itself a component on a much larger circuit.That is why I mentioned “integrated circuit” in the broader sense, although it is indeed vacuum state electronics.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 09:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on December 06, 2020, 10:38:46 pm... and by Philips, apparentlyQuote from: David Hess on December 09, 2020, 05:44:04 pmInteresting, I didn't know there were clones. That being said, the original is still in production, at least the comercial grade seems to be.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 10:11:24 pm
content: The 5532 and 5534 (and the 555) were developed by Signetics, who were acquired by Philips (now NXP) in 1975.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 10:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on December 10, 2020, 06:24:12 pmYes, the K2-W is an integrated circuit, but not a monolithic one.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 10:43:56 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on December 10, 2020, 10:11:24 pmI assumed it was designed at Philips because it first appeared in Philips databooks and without cross reference to Signetics.But the acquisition definitely muddies the water.The specific designer(s) remain completely unknown to this day, as far as I know.editStudio Sound magazine, August 1990, p. 55 confirms that it first appear under Philips brand.Quote

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 06:36:10 pm
content: Fonz-11

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 07:52:08 pm
content: I was trying to find a definitive history of the 5534, but missed that article. I had first encountered the device under the Signetics name. In my clouded memory, I thought that Jung had endorsed the new device earlier than 1977, but I stand corrected.Harris also had some interesting high slew rate op amps ca. 1980 that were used in high-performance audio test equipment, but didn't seem to attract much audio attention.See the 2500 series in the 1977 cataloghttp://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/components/harris/1977_Harris_Linear_and_Data_Acquisition_Products_Volume_1.pdfJung had a rule of thumb that the slew rate (in volts per microsecond) should be more than one-half (or better, one times) the peak output voltage of the device for audio use. My favorite theoretical explanation for that factor pointed out that with Miller capacitor feedback on the second stage for stability, as the slew rate limit is approached the input differential stage goes into large-signal operation, inducing distortion. The 5534 combined good slew rate and high output current (suitable for 600 ohm load) with low input noise voltage (but relatively high input bias current).

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:27:55 pm
content: Harris had a fast complementary bipolar process in the 1970s which gave them more options for fast designs.Signetics had their 531 and 535 high slew rate operational amplifiers in 1976 if not earlier but to me their design looks like how I would add emitter degeneration to a 741/301A for higher slew rate which is consistent with their low gain-bandwidth product. They are definitely not precursors to the 5534. The 318, not Signetics, was an earlier fast operational amplifier with high slew rate but used emitter degeneration for transconductance reduction contributing to its high input noise so not suitable for audio; it might be considered the first "video" operational amplifier.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 10:51:44 pm
content: Does anyone know why a quad NE5532 was never produced? It seems logical, since it would safe space and possibly power too.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 11:33:58 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on December 11, 2020, 10:51:44 pmI would hazard a guess that the large die would not have fit into the width of the package. 94 picofarads of MOS capacitors per amplifier does not a small chip make. Quad amplifiers from that era like the LM324 had more like 5 picofarads of MOS capacitors per amplifier explicity to minimize size and thereby cost, which is why a true quad 741 was either never produced or very expensive.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 09:10:13 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on December 11, 2020, 07:52:08 pmThere appears to be a consensus among EEs that the part originated from Signetics and a similar consensus among audio engineers that it's from Philips, see DIYAudioThe earliest datasheet I have is dated June '76 so the chip was clearly announced before '77. Somebody on DIYA posted that NDA'd engineering samples were available (from Philips) a year or two prior; dunno if it's credible.Quote from: Zero999 on December 11, 2020, 10:51:44 pmAlmost 2×3mm die size in old Signetics duals. Not only capacitors (maybe ⅓ of the die) but also a fair bit of circuitry.Power dissipation: worst case quiescent power is 6mA·36V (that's if we give up 44V operation) - already 850mW for a quad just doing nothing. Add minimum 450mW reserve for >25mA short circuit to ground on one channel. Not a great thing for DIP14.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 09:29:29 am
content: Just found 7-off TDA1034 date coded M8233B in the junk box. I think they were being branded as Mullard (owned by Philips) at the time - they certainly don't have the Philips badge.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 09:42:46 am
content: pics?

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 06:47:50 pm
content: L200TL431LM324LM3582N2222etc...

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: magic on December 12, 2020, 09:10:13 amTo add to the confusion I have a Philips data book labelled Signetics Integrated Circuits 1976. This must have been a reprint of a Signetics data book immediately after Philips took over as everything inside the covers is labelled Signetics and none of the data sheets are in the Philips format. The only part of this data book that is in the Philips format is the outer cover.This data book appears to cover the complete range of Signetics chips including logic, linear, interface and microprocessor but there is no mention of the NE5534 in this data book.From this I would conclude that the NE5534 was perhaps introduced after Philips took over but maybe before complete assimilation took place and during which time the Signetics name was still being regularly used.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 01:49:15 am
content: I thought Rupert Neve has approached Philips to develop the NE5534? I have Philips, Signetics, Raytheon ones in my bins.The modern TI NE5534 part has little to do with the old original part- different die and process, considered "equivalent". Only spec'd to +/-15V rails, not 20-22V.Quote from: Zero999 on December 11, 2020, 10:51:44 pmA quad package part is not feasible due to the high power dissipation. The op-amp (5534) was run at +/-19V in Neve consoles and high quiescent current with the Class AB bias. Say 4mA/38V 150mW/section = 0.6W for a DIP-14, let alone more heat driving 600 ohm loads.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 03:02:41 am
content: Quote from: gingpeakin on December 06, 2020, 10:08:16 pmHmm the LM10 is an unusual item, is there a modern equivalent?[Edit: LT1635. Note to self: read entire thread before posting]

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 03:47:06 am
content: High power 14 pin and larger DIPs were available then which used a larger lead-frame however the cost with the more expensive package would have been greater than a pair of normal 8 pin DIPs containing duals so there would be no reason to make a quad NE5534 when they already had the dual NE5532. Dual parts are often preferred over quads anyway because they simplify layout.For instance the Fairchild uA706 was available in the otherwise normal seeming 14 pin DIPP, dual inline power package, which was good to 1.7 watts. A 14 pin ceramic DIP package could also have been used like many 723 regulators did for higher power.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 04:30:29 am
content: Quote from: Jeff1946 on December 06, 2020, 08:38:32 pmDon't forget it can also convert positive to negative. Truly universal chip, although not as efficient as modern MHz-range bucks.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 04:42:45 am
content: NE592 differential in and out video amplifier with 1 resistor set gain from 0 to 400. 90Mhz bandwidth at a gain of 100, 12ns rise and fall time, 10ns delay.UA733 is almost the same, except the gain begins at 10 instead of 0 & it reaches 200MHz.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 05:09:00 am
content: TL714 high speed comparator. Classic and still manufactured.

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 05:18:06 am
content: Quote from: Yansi on December 10, 2020, 01:58:53 pmuA702 aka 140UD1. First single-chip opamp, courtesy of Bob Wildar. The western civilization has quickly evolved from this chip into using much better ones, but the USSR got stuck with it for decades. 140UD1 (clone of uA702) was everywhere...

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 08:58:25 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on December 13, 2020, 01:49:15 amThat seems to be an oft-repeated story, and I now found another post about it.Quotehttps://repforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,15555.msg203117.html#msg203117Quote from: floobydust on December 13, 2020, 01:49:15 amTI has been making these chips for an eternity too and the dice look about the same. If you don't like their version, there is still ON Semi, recommend voltage up to 20V, but only in SOIC. JRC made DIPs but they killed it last year.Quote from: tchicago on December 13, 2020, 04:30:29 amThe output can only swing within 2V of VCC, so the buck mode is extremely inefficient. And there is no thermal shutdown.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 09:39:41 am
content: Man, after 4 pages, how could we all collectively forget this entire classic J-Fet opamp series:Single, Dual, Quad------------------------TL061, TL062, TL064 -> Low bandwidthTL071, TL072, TL074 -> Medium bandwidthTL081, TL082, TL084 -> High bandwidth

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 10:39:27 am
content: Was mentioned on the first page, if I remember correctly.Btw, don't the 07 and 08 amps have the same BW? As far as I remember, 07x and 08x ave all the same parameters and I always wondered, where the difference is.https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl072.pdfhttps://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl082.pdf

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 10:41:09 am
content: 07 is selected for lower noise, this should be reflected in the specs.These days there is probably no real difference. But price is not a factor either, so just get the 07.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 11:27:27 am
content: No difference in noise specs.There is only very slight difference in min. slew rate and rise time specs. So okay, maybe the 08x is indeed "slightly faster" in terms of the output slew rate. (GBW same 3 MHz).

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 11:31:31 am
content: Quote from: Yansi on December 13, 2020, 10:39:27 amIt seems the TL07x has improved to the TL08x except in the settling time which is twice as fast in the attached TI .pdf. (Probably a typo in the data sheet.) It appears they were able to improve the bandwidth of the TL07x series to the TL08x series, yet retain the original low noise of the old slower TL07x series. At the same time, the noise figure of the TL08x series has now improved to the levels of the original TL07x series without loosing bandwidth.IE: Both ICs are now identical unless you take the data-sheet's settling time of the TL08x series being twice as fast as the TL07x series. Funny, only 1 chart is different between the 2, yet, it is in horizontal scale and 1 looks like a cheap knockoff. Every other chart is identical, including noise figure.The TL06x series still seems to have 1/3rd the bandwidth of the other two at 1MHz and it's settling time is double that of the TL07x and quadruple that of the TL08x series. I do remember that back in the 80's, the TL07x did sit inbetween the other 2 in settling time, but, also in bandwidth.TI has made improvements to many of their generic ICs. I do remember their LM393 dual comparator performing twice as fast ON-Semi & ST version of the IC and at the time, it did almost destroy a project of mine as the edge filter detector I engineered with the IC became dependent on TI's version of the LM393 specifically even though TI's datasheet matched their response speed with all the other manufacturers of the LM393.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 12:44:56 pm
content: I suspect the TL07x and TL08x are now identical. The settling time specification is probably an error, along with many others in the data sheet. Yes they've made them faster, which isn't always a good thing. A design which worked perfectly with an old op-amp, might now oscillate, with a newer, faster device.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2020, 12:24:55 am
content: Motorola rated their old TL08x series at 4Mhz instead of TI's current rated 3MHz.Back in the day, I remember the bandwidths being 1Mhz, 2Mhz, 4Mhz between the 3.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2020, 12:40:49 am
content: The TL07x and TL08x were always identical. The difference is that the TL07x series spent more time on the tester to guaranty low frequency noise.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2020, 10:28:50 pm
content: Some further discussion of the 5534 op amp.In Douglas Self's book "Small Signal Audio Design, 2nd Ed" (Focal Press, 2015), chapter 4, pp 143 ff, the author discusses the 5534 and 5532. "Large-quantity production has brought the price down to the point where a powerful reason is required to pick any other device". He states that the Fairchild, JRC, and ON-Semi 5534 and 5532 devices have a factor of 2 or 3 lower THD above 20 kHz than other manufacturers' devices. Since the (single, decompensated) 5534 does not have emitter resistors in series with the two transistors in the input pair, it has somewhat lower voltage noise than the (dual, unity-gain stable) 5532. He has a detailed description of the circuit, internal Miller compensation loops, and operation details on pp 146-148.He also states that the LM4562 (30 years later) is a real advance on the 5532, with lower voltage noise, faster slew rate, lower common-mode distortion, and almost immeasurable THD (for > 1k load resistance), but it is more expensive.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2020, 10:56:00 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on December 14, 2020, 10:28:50 pmAlmost as if he is singling out some particular vendorAnd yes, it's confirmed by Samuel Groner in his huge measurements compilation. He tested TI and Signetics.Quote from: TimFox on December 14, 2020, 10:28:50 pmNeither does the dual, time for this myth to die. See Zeptobars. The difference in noise and gain has to be due to lower input stage current in the dual. Observe that input bias current is lower too. The second stage may also play a role, by the way, depending on its own noise and the voltage gain of the first stage.Old Raytheon databooks give nominal component values and there are differences in several resistors and capacitors. Watch out for newer versions of RC553x datasheets published after Fairchild takeover, they are mistranscribed. If it isn't a scan from dead tree (or dead tree), it's misleading rubbish.Quote from: TimFox on December 14, 2020, 10:28:50 pmMy humble opinion about that part: read National Semiconductor Linear Brief LB-17

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2020, 12:51:47 am
content: Quote from: magic on December 14, 2020, 10:56:00 pmFor input stages which do not use emitter degeneration and do not use input bias current cancellation, input noise can be calculated from input bias current, and the reverse. This is handy for parts which lack a noise specification and sometimes lack an input bias current specification.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2020, 01:42:38 am
content: The old tricks of using an op-amp's BAL/COMP pins for creative purposes, such as changing tail bias or tapping off internal signals, odd feedback etc. was done in a product I worked with using NE5534. In production the change from Signetics to the TI part caused everything to stop working. Phone calls to TI and they said the part was converted to their standard lithography processes and "meets the datasheet spec". Obviously, it's a different bird now, like a brand name TI bought as the part number.My defining moments are being called in to fix a Neve console, all the while the choir or band is waiting mid session. It has over 300 NE5534's in it. Brutal to trace a signal. I was able to walk between control room and the musicians that were playing, and hear right away the difference in ambiance, distortion, frequency response etc. that comes with the recording process. The old NE5534's were doing excellent for fidelity and Douglas Self touting the NE5532 as all you need is somewhat true- until you work with better parts.A problem with these "classic" IC's is they are constantly getting misused. You don't put a NE5532/NE5534 on the output of a DAC IC. The parts are from an era where CM noise was mains, not 384kHz or whatever for digital audio. I don't recall any CM specs or graphs beyond "100dB" and changing the tail current scuttles that, new vs vintage part.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2020, 09:14:39 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on December 15, 2020, 12:51:47 amI think you need some estimate of beta and assumptions about base spreading resistance to get equivalent voltage noise, but equivalent current noise is straightforward.Though I could swear that I have seen some bipolar opamp datasheet which showed 1/f knee in the vicinity of 1kHz, so that could be a problem sometimes if noise is speced at 1kHz.Quote from: floobydust on December 15, 2020, 01:42:38 amInteresting. I think they are exactly topologically equivalent and your circuit should work unless you make assumptions about things like Vbe or beta of internal devices. Maybe stability too. Do you remember what was the exact problem?Quote from: floobydust on December 15, 2020, 01:42:38 amThen I don't envy you, as TI appears to be the last vendor making them in THT.Quote from: floobydust on December 15, 2020, 01:42:38 amWell, some DAC datasheets show just thatBTW, what do you mean by "changing the tail current"? I think you can't change the tail current on NE5534, save for heating it up.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2020, 09:56:18 pm
content: It's been a long time, I can't remember the schematic but I thought it was modifying the diff-amp operating current in order to optimize noise for higher source impedances. Problem is the TI parts would not bias, they just latched up with the same topology that worked with Signetics parts. I've only seen the method somewhat discussed here:Analog Devices Amplifier Applications Guide, 1992an excellent reference book on op-amps, applications.Section 10 Perverting the Monolithic Op Amp; Abuses of the Null pins

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2020, 11:19:21 pm
content: Not sure which part you refer to. Figure 10.3? That just replaces the input stage with an external one. Now, if you try to run the external stage on reduced current, you may have trouble because it may fail to pull down the bases of second stage PNPs enough to get them going. That's perhaps one of those places where things like beta of internal devices can make a difference in an already marginal circuit.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2020, 09:09:01 pm
content: Another series of chips that I used often in the '80s is the 26LS31, 26LS32, and 26LS33 RS-422 transmitters and receivers, which I believe originated with AMD. This series has evolved since the "LS" days. Is this protocol still popular?

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2020, 10:33:00 pm
content: some more glassware: 811A, EL34, EL84otherwise: MOC3043, HD44780, SN75176

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 05:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on December 16, 2020, 09:09:01 pmYup. There was also the 75193 version of it. I still use the 26C31 and 26C32 to send/receive differential signals from shaft encoders.I make some products that convert proprietary encoders and resolvers to look like standard quadrature encoders.Jon

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 07:45:35 pm
content: Don't know how legitimate calling this a classic is for an EE but for this electronics enthusiast, the 74LS245. That is where I learned about "tri-state". Simplistically, it meant to me, high, low, or not connected. It answered the question of how do you hang stuff on a data bus without crashing.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 08:33:43 pm
content: Along those lines, the open collector output.It would provide a “free” logic gate.Don’t recall the exact 74xx part number. But the LM339 certainly has it.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 09:44:57 pm
content: The original 74xx series had quite a few SSI devices with open collector outputs, which persisted into 74Lxx, 74Hxx, 74Sxx, 74LSxx, and beyond. Some had higher maximum voltage ratings on the output pin, which facilitated interface to higher voltage circuits.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 10:07:29 pm
content: yup, 7406 for example or the well knows 74141 for driving nixie toobs.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 09:27:51 pm
content: Apparently what pulled the plug on the Philips/NXP 5534s was a catastrophic fire at the Caen plant on Dec 12, 2003. See page 9 of this announcement.https://www.nxp.com/wcm_documents/products/eol/dn51_a.pdf

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 09:54:34 pm
content: Funny that you mention NXP, because I found this EOL document last year while trying to unambiguously establish whether all NXP-branded NE553x on auction sites can be safely assumed to be counterfeit.Answer: yes, they can. NXP brand didn't exist in 2003. Ditto for other jellybean analog ICs like 358, 393, 4558 or whatever else. If it's NXP, it's fake.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 11:00:11 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 13, 2020, 09:39:41 amLF355 -> Low Power - 2mA 2.5MHz 5V/uSLF356 -> Wide Bandwidth Unity Gain - 5mA 5MHz 12V/uSLF357 -> Wide Bandwidth Av>=5 Decompensated - 5mA 20MHz 50V/uS

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 12:22:37 pm
content: Maybe add 7660 ic?I was wondering if we feed it 12v from a boosted 5v, then it outputs -12 or close to it.. can we add capacitance multipliers to make ripple and noise down to 1uv or so?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2020, 10:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on December 21, 2020, 12:22:37 pmYes, that's definitely a classic.QuoteNo, because the maximum voltage rating is only 10V.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 05:56:32 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on December 21, 2020, 10:53:02 pmassume feeding it with maximum of 10v then?