GW Instek GDS-1204B? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: agsnow
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2021, 02:48:43 pm
content: I'm in the market for an entry level oscilloscope (<$600) and have been looking at the Siglent, GW Instek and Rigol (well not really Rigol anymore). From what I read in this forum GW Instek is a bit better than the Siglent but their 4 channel entry level models are dated. I was looking at GW Instek's site and found an image of a never mentioned GDS-1204B. Has anyone seen this model? They release the GDS-1202B last year. Wonder if it will be new hardware inside.Here is the link:https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/detail/GDS-1000BFYI, just joined the forum after gaining much information regarding the current oscilloscope market.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2021, 10:23:21 pm
content: GE Instek doesn't get much love around here. I don't know why...The thing is, to really compare two or three scopes takes a lot of work. First there is the spreadsheet of features and that includes all the functions. It also has to include sample rate and how that varies with the number of channels as well as the size of memory. Triggering modes, minimum V/div, minimum/maximum Time/div and all that stuff. We're talking pages of data, not just a quick snapshot of the front panel. Plus a lot of quality time with User Manuals.Ignore everything said about equivalent time sampling. Digital signals probably aren't repetitive enough to use that scheme.There needs to be a review of the scopes in some kind of 'shoot out', side by side, and it needs to cover ALL of the features, not just the truly obvious. Even stuff you might never use like integration.So, about all the mind can comprehend is a very few scopes and right now the Siglents get most of the pixels. AFAIK, they are the latest with the greatest but I don't own one so I really don't know. My Rigol DS1054Z works fine for what I need. I would consider the Siglent SDS1104X-E unlocked to 200 MHz as an upgrade.

author: agsnow
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 01:56:48 am
content: The Siglent SDS1104X-E is at the top of my list. I email GW, they don't know when the GDS-1204B could be available in the US, they are running its supply issues.Do people think Siglent or GW Instek is better oscilloscope company?

author: werediver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 10:14:53 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 04, 2021, 10:23:21 pmTo the best of my knowledge, Siglent does not suggest a bandwidth upgrade option for SDS1104X-E (not mentioned at theEU store pageorSDS1000X-E optionspage, at least) and the bandwidth limit is implementedin software(seeSiglent SDS1104X-E In-Depth Review, attachmentSDS1000X-E Bandwidth.pdf, page 24 [the last]), which rules out a simple hardware hack.I am personally looking at SDS1202X-E (2 ch. 200 MHz BW 1 GSPS), because of the higher "overall" bandwidth (hardware × software). I expect 2 channels to be enough for most of analog debugging, and if I need more channels for digital debugging, I'll consider using some kind of a logical analyzer. It also happens to be the cheapest model in SDS1000X-E series at the moment.Added later:Actually, SDS1104X-E seems to be hackable as described in this topic:Siglent SDS1104X-E Hack to 200Mhz, and full options?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 03:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: werediver on March 05, 2021, 10:14:53 amHere is a LONG thread where Charlotte ultimately buys the SDS1202X-E and we play with it in the later replies.The first 150 messages occur before she buys the scope and then things get interesting. We played with a lot of obscure but important measurements - like integration.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 05:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 04, 2021, 10:23:21 pmYES!! Equivalent time sampling can get you more bandwidth, but if the signal has non-repetitive features, it can manufacture things that totally ARE NOT THERE! You have to use it VERY carefully, and often check by changing time/div to see if the odd features change, that indicates some non-repetitive things are being aliased. Much better to get the bandwidth you need and not have to worry over sampling artifacts.But, for a limited budget, you might also look for good older scopes in the HP and Tektronix lines. I have a 2465 here (300 MHz, totally analog but with digital controls) and it is a fine scope. I also have a very old HP digital scope, and the user interface is totally awful.Jon

author: WI_Hedgehog
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 03:14:04 pm
content: I just purchased a GDS-1054B from TEquipment, in a word: wow.https://www.tequipment.net/search/?F_Keyword=GDS-1000BI started reading threads on Hantek 2000 series scopes about two years ago; although I've wanted an "affordable scope" for about six years they didn't impress me, mainly due to "lack of quality" issues. For what they are they seem pretty good and would meet my needs, but for the price they go for it seemed a lot of money for what they offer, though I didn't know of anything better. The bottom line is $350 is a lot to spend on a handheld scope that may break in six months to a year, or it may last five years without issue (other than them having a small screen and lots of button presses to do things).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-2c422c722d422d72/This year I started seriously reading about the competitors, all of which were pretty unimpressive. I have a project that made me want to buy one, but I simply couldn't spend the money on equipment that didn't seem to be consistently reliable. People have had good luck with them and do rave about that type of scope, and it is affordable compared to other scopes, but unfortunately I had a bad feeling about them and was hitting the used ads on eBay for something solid.I wondered what the next step up would cost, and EEVBlog posts led me to RIGOL, and for around the same price that's a lot more scope! However, the nagging issue of quality was again in question.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-the-rigol-ds1054z-still-daves-choice-for-under-$500/That led me to looking at Siglent, which appears to be more solid, reliable, feature-packed, and something I'd be willing to spend money on. They've a few shortcomings of course but seemed to be great for the price.That made me want to look if there was anything better and whatthatwould cost...which eventually led me back to the beginning of the RIGOL thread and this time the GW Instek suggestions hit home. I didn't think I could afford one (or at least justify buying one), but the pricing was a complete shock when I went to TEquipment (suggested by other members) and looked at the two-channel GDS-1000 series--it came in at less than the Hantek!!! Wow!Not making a rash decision I read alotmore and decided to pull the plug on a 4-channel scope given the advice and reasoning from forum members. Man, am I glad I listened.TEquipment's service, pricing, and packaging is excellent. What a great company to work with. Go there.The GDS-1054B is amazing. The last scope I used was a Tektronix 465M, so the capabilities are comparablyhuge. The instruction manual is excellent, easy to understand with lots of pictures and easy-to-understand step-by-step text. I printed it on a color laser printer, punched holes and put it in a binder. The print is big and easy to read, so learning how to use the scope is really, really easy.There's a calibration certificate, internal memory, an Ethernet jack, USB jacks, remote control, it's programmable, I can write applications for it, what a bit of kit! A similar Tektronix looks to be about 10x the price, and that's way more than I can justify.Thank you for the excellent posts. I know there's a whole series on hacking it to get more out of it, but I'm nowhere close to that at this point.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/possible-gw-instek-gds-1000b-hack/If you're looking for an incredible scope on a tight budget head over to TEquipment if you're in the U.S. I'm understating all of this, it's a great unit and I'm totally happy. Thank you!

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2023, 12:17:37 am
content: I got GW Instek GDS1054B a couple years ago. I could recommend it on the US, as I'm told it's the cheapest there. You could hack it to a little bit more that 100 MHz. Like 109 or so (rise time <3.3 ns). In that case you'll be better getting new 250 MHz probes for it, that should put your entire system bandwith at 100 MHz. At least 150 MHz probes that would get you about 85 MHz total system bandwidth. This is an additional cost to account for (but not a big one). Mine came with 70 MHz probes. That's not enough if you unlock the oscilloscope up to 100 MHz.Here in Europe GDS1054B now sets you back more money than Siglent SDS1104X-E so getting the Siglent is a no-brainer now. That wasn't the case two years ago. I was about to get the Siglent because it can be hacked to 200 MHz and has an MSO option which I wanted. Then I discovered that MSO option doesn't work fine. GDS1054B was then about €70 cheaper so i got it and also a DSLogic Plus logic analyzer for about the same money the Siglent would cost me. To get a good working MSO option one needs to go up to Rigol MSO5000 series or Siglent SDS2000X Plus series. All my budget would have been eaten by just the oscilloscope, and you'll probably find, like me, that having also other equipment makes things better than having just a powerful oscilloscope. SDS2000X Plus is like a professional basic oscilloscope, but it has to remain as a wet dream to me. However my GDS1054B serves me well. I'm still have to outgrow it.Now, please note I only know about GW Instek GDS1054B so I can't make any first-hand comparison. This is just what I found on the forum:SDS1104X-E would be the pricier entry-level scope, user interface is responsive, can be hacked up to 200 MHz and has fast enough sampling to do it well. However using the MSO option, which is not cheap, makes the oscilloscope slower, unresponsive, perhaps even hang (I'm told). That said, if you have the money, it's a very worthy option. Just don't buy it thinking you'll get an MSO oscilloscope. Also, quite probably, you could do all you need with just 100 MHz, no hacking it, and getting double the sample rate than the competitors. Getting 300 MHz or above probes, wich would probably be needed or at least convenient after hacking it, is to get into another league, and really not so cheap. I'm sure others in this forum know better which probes this Siglent comes with, and wether these probes can be used after hacking, without loosing too much of that unlocked bandwidth. You'd have to weight on one hand the money and on the other hand the capabilities.Rigol DS1054Z would be the middle one in price, it's a proven design, all bugs would have been ironed out and could perfectly do the work. It can be hacked to a little bit more MHz than the GW Instek (up to 120-130 IIRC?). I don't know what his probes are but it could turn out it comes with probes good enough to be used after hacking it up to 100 MHz. Others will know that better. Being the oldest design, it would be showing its age, i.e., UI would be the slowest one, etc.GW Instek GDS1054B should be the cheapest 4-channel, entry-level oscilloscope in the US and (IIRC) it can do almost the Siglent can do, except going up to 200 MHz (and down to 500 uV/div?). I'm told its user interface leaves Rigol DS1054Z's one breathing the dust in its wake. All I can say is I have no complaints against this oscilloscope. None. So, if you are in the US and on a budget, it wouldtheno-brainer I think.AFAIK, all three oscilloscopes can decode a nearly identical bunch of serial protocols. Here GDS1054B would have an edge since it's able to decode all the memory, not just the part on the screen. Not really sure about it because after all my ideas about MSOs it turns out you need a quite big screen to have all these signals on it and be able to really see them easily. So I use the DSLogic Plus for decoding. PC monitor is much bigger than any oscilloscope screen.Other differencies like having a set of knobs for each channel or how each oscilloscope handles its memory, are minor IMO and I think you could easily get used to work with any of the three.You don't need to purchase a model with the bandwidth you need, all oscilloscopes in a series all have identical hardware. It's just that the cheapest models have the bandwidth castrated or even almost emasculated from them in software. In this forum you'll find some way to avoid that, no matter which one you choose. So you can purchase the cheapest model and get it unlocked up to the bandwith of the priciest model in that series .Last but not least, if you want to do any work that involves some sensor and/or a LCD screen, that means you are going digital, then a 4-channel oscilloscope will serve you better, sooner rather than later. It will allow you to see simultaneously all four signals on SPI, which is one of the most used serial protocols. If you are sure you are *never* going to do anything digital, you could do with a 2-channel one, no problem.TL:DR: If you don't mind the money difference, then the better option is the Siglent. That said, don't think that having not 100 but 200 MHz or 500uV/div vs 1mV/div will get you that much further. You'll need to go up to a pro-level oscilloscope to be able to work with faster-than-basic MCUs. To work with the fastest ones you'll need to affiord a 5-digit bill At the entry level, Siglent SDS1104X-E will for sure get you the most bang. But perhaps not the most bang-for-the-buck.Good luck.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2023, 12:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: agsnow on March 04, 2021, 02:48:43 pmWell I have seen that image but there is no GDS1204B I could find specs for. Neither could I find it for sale anywhere. GW Instek catalogs are somehow confusing. See attachment. GDS1054B can be upgraded up to 100 MHz, not 200 AFAIK. Actually there were reports it couldn't go up to 100 MHz. Listed at TEquipment for $372, I would go for it even if Rigol DS1054Z is some 30 bucks cheaper, should your $600 budget be not just for the oscilloscope but four all the equipement you could buy.I see Siglent SDS1104X-E listed at TEquipment for $499. It has *two* ADCs 1 GSa/s each. Having a $600 budget just for the scope, I would go for it, no doubts.You should search for and read the relevant threads in this forum anyways