JLCPCB experience - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 01:21:53 pm
content: Hi,I know i should not expect much for such a cheap pcb manufacturer...Anyway, i decided to try JLCPCB for the first time and i wanted to share my experience with them so far.If you do use them, make bloody sure your gerber files are correct before you upload. Because, once you do, even if it's been 10 seconds after you upload, you're f**cked...I made a mistake, not a significant one, but one that could have been avoided if i paid more attention. There is no way to re-upload once you upload the files. So, i tried to email them, yeah...... Their communication skills are not their strongest point by far... here's the reply i got from them (almost a day after i sent it) :QuoteNow which is it??? It's too late or you cancelled the order??They never did cancel it, It took another day to get a reply clarifying. By that time, the pcb was already in production and there was nothing to do...We'll see about the quality once the board arrive...

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 01:26:20 pm
content: It's tough... on the one hand, we want companies to start work promptly once we submit an order, and on the other hand, we want to be able to fix mistakes that we've submitted to them.- Bob

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:04:51 pm
content: If I made a mistake and submitted an order, it would never occur to me to blame someone else for that.

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on October 12, 2018, 03:04:51 pmI never said i blamed them for my mistake...It's the way they handle customer support... It led me to believe that even if the pcb was not sent to fab yet, they would not have corrected the mistake even then.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:12:51 pm
content: Well, you should cancel the order as soon as you realized this. It's clearly said during ordering process that you cannot cancel once production is started. Once they started a first production step, there is no reasonable possibility to change anything. Your PCBs are placed together with other designs on big panels, so changing anything would mean throwing out all other designs as well. And with email, you should not expect they'll it read immediately, especially considering different time zones.

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 12, 2018, 03:12:51 pmYes, I tried to do exactly that. I sent an email about 5 minutes after submitting... There is no way to cancel an order yourself on their site.The amount of time they took to reply, then it was too late...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:19:24 pm
content: Quote from: bfrigon on October 12, 2018, 03:16:24 pmI thought there was.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:23:05 pm
content: But anyway, that's why I double check, including online gerber viewer before ordering PCB. Also as someone on the forum said: "you should take a sleep before ordering". If you order a fresh design at evening, it's much easier to miss some issue than if you checked in next day.

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:24:41 pm
content: The world is indeed cruel, you make errors and they have consequences, go figureI for one, have nothing but positive experience with JLCPCB, I have had thousands of boards made by them (more than 50 projects so far) and not a single error from them. They run a pretty much automatic business, things needs to be streamlined for them to achieve the proces they do.Get over it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:25:44 pm
content: BTW you can call them, Tel: +86 755 2391 9769 (Working Hours(GMT+8): Mon-Sat 9am-10.30pm.)

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:42:43 pm
content: Quote from: cgroen on October 12, 2018, 03:24:41 pmCongratulations for a perfect score...

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:47:18 pm
content: I have been a victim of a "go-go" fever way too many times, so I've since instituted a rule that I never submit anything for production the day I've made *ANY* change in the board design ("any" means just that - even simple silkscreen change). I always let a design "mature" so to speak until the next day, and I always review it right before sending it in, and if that review uncovered anything that needs to be changed, I defer the order until the following day, when the process repeats.

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 03:54:33 pm
content: Something got screwed up when i panelized the boards... I have two design on this panel. First one was perfect, but the other one had some issues... Nothing that a bodge wire can't fix though.I reviewed them individually very carefully, but did not checked them after panelizing with the same level of scrutiny ... I assumed it would be fine... Critical mistake...That's how you learn...And yes, did submit the file late at night... second mistake...

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 04:44:16 pm
content: Not sure how this will be resolved, but it looks like it would be fair to refund the shipping cost, but still manufacture and scrap the board without shipping.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 04:47:45 pm
content: I realised I fucked up two boards in a road that got shipped to them.What did I take away from this?1. Write down your mistakes on the computer.2. On the next board, read that list of mistakes and make sure you don't do them again.3. Order some more boards.4. Hang the failed ones up on your bench in view to remind you what happens if you don't check the list on the computer.It's important to receive the failed ones for this to work.JLCPCB just do what you tell them to.

author: bfrigon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 05:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2018, 04:47:45 pmI already have a box of shame where i put my failed prototypes... Would that work too?

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 10:02:33 am
content: I have a box of "shame" too! Well not really shame, probably more a box of "optimism"! When I submit a design I used to order how ever many I thought I would need, but then would discover some small(or large) errors need to make changes, make the changes and scrap fairly much an entire orderI also try to sit on a finished design for about a week now before I call it mature enough to submit, just in case I forgot to add something or realized I needed to change something around. And now I always order the least amount(normally 5 or 10 panels) so at least if there was something not quite right, they can go into my junk pcb box and live there forever more without having cost too much.Then the next challenge is to fix the mistakes without moving (or adding)any of the parts so the stencil is still usable.I also have a text file in my manufacturing directory named "Reminders before hitting submit"Fiducials on panel boarders and pcb's2mm mounting holes on panel boardersEverything on panel boarders set to "do not panelise"Turn ratlines for gnd back on and check!Do DRC to make sure everything is right.Check any components that were ungrouped.Specify laser through fids on panel boarders only.Specify order number to be printed on top/bottom of pcbCheers

author: pvint
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 02:06:55 am
content: I have these "Oh WAIT!" moments too, but my experience with JLC wan't one of those, but in their favour I want to share this:I ordered some large boards that were panels - simple black one-sided boards and the "bottom" was actually my "front", but when I got the boards they were only coloured on the back side (technically the front by the gerbers). I contacted support, and after a couple emails they said it was an issue on their end and they would re-fab... but I had changes I wanted to make... I asked "Can I update the gerbers? I have a couple changes to make anyway...", they said "Sure", and I got my updates in. The new boards came in and they were great.Just wanted to share this - my experience with their support was great. Also, I suspect they meant they will cancel and refund so you can re-order, but the language issue is a bit challenging sometimes.Cheers

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 04:15:08 am
content: I have seen their vcuts on pcbs not be within tolerance.

author: firstcolle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 07:27:51 am
content: I just ordered 4 boards from JLCPCB today.. I also have the rule to check everything and order only the day after 0 error found. finger crossed for my first 4 layer board!

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 07:37:30 am
content: I have had plenty of errors with boards from JLC. Sadly they were all my errors though. They are my current provider of choice. I have done maybe a dozen through them about 1/2 4 layer, the rest 2 layer, most of them at the capability limits and every single one has been perfect.If only I could get all my board layouts perfect first time every time

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 08:23:17 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on October 18, 2018, 07:37:30 amIf only.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 10:22:24 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on October 18, 2018, 04:15:08 amHappens with some regularity with all of them, its a tool and it wears out and all of these people do crazy workrates. Overscore, underscore & forget to score are things we have seen probably form every supplier we have ever used, but it is probably more frequent now PCB manufacturing is so very china centric.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2018, 10:26:08 am
content: If you complain about it they will improve. I've noticed that about all Chinese companies. They actually always improve instead of start squirting bullshit out.

author: gowithyourself
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 12:07:18 pm
content: I haven't ordered from the international site, but the Chinese one will have them approve the order before you pay. This of course doesn't work as well with the time zone difference to the west, but if I recall correctly the option is available on the international site as well.It is a large quick prototype pcb manufacturer where every second counts. Once you put your order in they may start preparing it at any time. Even if they had a cancel function people would instead get annoyed when the option suddenly disappears and you'll have other problems instead, like with payments. You should take it as a lesson learned, just because it says $2 doesn't mean it won't also cost you time. Even when being in China where you can order pcbs for cheap in 12 hours - 3 days it is super annoying to get a board just to realize that you made a mistake or forgot something.

author: soubitos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 09:29:45 am
content: I have been using jlcpcb almost exclusively over the past year...A month or two ago, they scrapped the registered airmail shipping option.. replaced it with ePacket at 2x the costToday i noticed they scrapped that too and even EMS so what is left is DHL/UPS/FedexIts not these cost 4-5x more and the 2$ pcbs go to 27$ in my case but its that for those 27$ with registered airmail i'd have to pay 15 euros customs clearance fee plus 24% vat.. with ePacket/EMS the same... whith DHL/UPS/Fedex the customs clearance fee is as low as 40 and up to 60-65 EUROS... I dont see how i would be ordering from them anytime soon as i am not aiming at ultra fast service at any cost but to decent service at the lowest possible cost ... and i cant see anybody facing similar treatment at their end prototyping anything out of hobby...I can honestly see ppl etching their own boards and using TH parts more if this does not change and gets worse....

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 09:57:30 am
content: I just tried them out for the first time for some small simple boards. I usually use Seeed Studios due to familiarity, but I thought I'd try the boards from JLCPCB as they were a few dollars cheaper.They came in good time and the quality is fine, internal cutouts and odd shaped boards and all.I'm interested to give their gold fingers checkbox a try.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 10:03:35 am
content: @soubitos ... I still get registered airmail option. Just ordered some boards this morning with it.Regarding your point, I will NEVER go back to TH but I will etch my own boards again mostly because I'm impatient and don't like the fact I've got about 150 odd surplus prototype boards floating around now to dispose of. Most of my designs are one shot and scale down to single sided with ground plane on opposite side so I can turn around a board in a couple of hours at home with minimal kit. In fact I bought a UV box a couple of days ago to do this.A note on quality: the boards that JLCPCB send out are far better quality than the ones from OSHpark. I did some side by side comparisons. OSHpark you get fucked up mousebites from their panelisation whereas JLCPCB has milled edges. Also the trace definition is clearly better on the JLCPCB boards and the solder mask more consistent and better aligned. Not too bothered with the ENIG finish on OSHpark. Makes no difference to me.Killer thing for JLCPCB is at prototype stage you can actually see the traces through the solder mask which makes debugging easier and bodge wires easier to tack on.Purple + gold = suck.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 02:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 23, 2018, 10:03:35 amI can easily see traces on OSHPark boards.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 03:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on October 23, 2018, 02:16:00 pmTheir lead time for 4 layer boards still sucks, and their tolerances are from the past century

author: gowithyourself
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 03:10:03 pm
content: I don't think there is much going back. It is just that at this point what JLC have essentially done is become their own reseller. To really "hit it out of the park" they need to adopt their business to the international market.For example, it is nice with 10 boards but most of us aren't going to use them all because the cost of parts and time to assemble the boards are going to be relatively high in the west. Instead offering 2-3 boards would save on shipping costs. With each order being fewer boards they could batch ship them by air mail to Europe and the US. Not only to save transit time and cost, but to avoid extra fees and delays by clearing customs. Something especially important when both the US and the EU are likely to introduce various measures in the next few years.If they could also offer assembly of common components for the international market they would have a really compelling product. Today it is all a bit of an experiment. The boards are cheap and of good quality, but the shipping time and customs chargers makes the whole process unreliable. At least for some countries.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 03:44:44 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on October 23, 2018, 03:08:31 pmPerhaps. But the prices for small boards are very good, they have free shipping, no customs fees or anything of that sort. The quality is excellent. Of course, you wouldn't use them if you needed your board tomorrow, or if your board is bigger. Then you can choose one of the Chinese companies, which also typically provide excellent quality, but you pay shipping, FedEx (or worse, DHL) will slap custom's fee on you. This all makes sense only if your order is relatively big. Otherwise, OSHPark is a way to go for me.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 11:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on October 23, 2018, 03:44:44 pmI'd love to use OSHPark but a 160mm x 125mm 4-layer board costs $310 for three and I got ten of that board from Seeed for half cost (incl. shipping).

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 11:21:13 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on October 24, 2018, 11:12:48 pmYeap. OSHPark's prices are not competitive for boards bigger than 5-6 square inches.

author: firstcolle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 11:13:53 am
content: I recently ordered my first 4 layer board and I'm stunned by the final result and the quality of the product. Compared to pcbway the silkscreen is better aligned to the components pads. (although I think that the physical factory is the same for both sellers). Received in 7 days from China to Italy via UPS, to me is a reasonable time compared to the service cost..

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 11:16:09 am
content: PCBway stuff is still hand aligned looking at a video I was watching. The whole process seems very old:

author: firstcolle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 12:17:41 pm
content: Oh! nice to know!! I remember an old post with bills from both manufacturers that report the same billing address and social region..

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2018, 01:15:51 pm
content: I think they're probably in the same area. Definitely not the same company.Here's JLCPCB's factory:

author: jhe_electronics
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 12:48:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 12, 2018, 03:25:44 pmAs a Chinese engineer who has ordered hundreds of PCBs, I will say QQ will be a much more efficient communication tool for JLC comparing to email.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 12:56:42 pm
content: I don't want Chinese Communist Party board member software on my computer thanks

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 06:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 27, 2018, 12:56:42 pmYep. Next thing you know, you've got a social score and can't travel outside your assigned concentration camp

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 06:59:48 pm
content: Not sure if QQ tool has to do with qq.cominternet domain, which i have blocked as one of the worst spam originating domain coming from China, together with 123.com