What Is The Effective Current of Taser ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2013, 12:06:13 pm
content: Can you die from excitement? Taser International says yesWhat Is The Effective Current of Taser ? Are Their Safety Claims Bogus ?They Claim 150mA +This 150+ mA range might raise eyebrows, because it's clearly a number that is well above the safe limits of around 30 mA.Part of the safety claim made by the manufacturer is that the output waveform consists of very short pulses (100us) of high frequency (50kHz), and these two waveform characteristics provides an increased level of safety margin.The manufacturer claims that the waveform has special (magical?) to ensure safety when their device kill people they claim excitement killed them canada isn't buying this rubbish its time these trigger happy cops were removed of these torture devices.http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/18/4743938/taser-excited-delirium-deaths

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2013, 01:02:22 pm
content: How about less politics more electronics?Does anyone know/seen oscilloscope capture of Taser signal? How magical is it exactly? I would also be interested in EMShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_muscle_stimulationequipment captures since they usually have a bunch of different modes like relax, pain relieve, recovery, build, massage - and whats amazing about it it actually works (and is used in rehabilitation/pt).How bad are Chinese EMS toys (can they kill you? are they even close to the proper waveforms from professional EMS?)

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2013, 02:39:03 pm
content: here found some infomation on tasers waveformshttp://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/nov/26/taser-is-easy-on-the-heart

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 01:52:32 pm
content: I understood that all the people who have died from a taser have been on drugs or alcohol or both at the time and a few have had heart conditions.But sometimes a taser can have funny results.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 07:03:23 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on September 20, 2013, 01:52:32 pmI don't find that video funny at all. Victims aren't supported by a couple of volunteers when they get tasered. Some fall to their deaths (one policeman later committed suicide after his victim fell to his death). How this lethal weapon is allowed to be used is beyond comprehension. Are police allowed to shoot to kill with guns drunk or drugged people, people with disabilities, be judge, jury and executioners? Yet over 500 people have died by taser, that's over 500 executions.Stop supporting the police state. There are other methods of apprehending those who break the law without executing them (one teenager was executed for graffiti in Florida, it ain't no laughing matter)alright, persecute me for believing people have rights.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 07:41:12 pm
content: There's a reason all of these things are sometimes called "Less-lethal weapons".

author: casper.bang
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 08:04:05 pm
content: QuoteHow about we exercise less censorship and care about a little bit more than our geeky hobbies sometimes? I'm with staxquad on this one - thankfully, where I live, neither police nor civilians are allowed to use such "usually-not-lethal-and-thus-very-easy-to-misuse" weapons.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 08:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: mmagin on September 20, 2013, 07:41:12 pmIn theory.In practice, how can a teenager die at the hands of police for painting graffiti on walls, it wasn't less lethal for him? And if tasers weren't available at the time, would the police have used guns to shot him to death, because of that graffiti?) Have to take tasers away from Police because they are unable to determine proper situations for it's use.And those with medical problems, are they disposable too.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 08:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: staxquad on September 20, 2013, 07:03:23 pmi wish we had same laws like in the usa to have a gun to defend your property, shoot to kill when a thief gets into your home etc. not long ago here an old (around 60) was sentenced to life in prison for defending his land. our lovely goverment have soo much love for gypsies they allow them almost everything and call it racism if you say against it. the old man set up a damn electric fence around his land before the main fence and the gypsy who climbed over the fence got electrocuted and it was made for cows and other farm animal. the damn thief died and the old man got into jail cos he defended what he was worked in his life against the family and their greater family. for those who dont know or never met a gypsy family i tell whats wrong with them: they hate work, they steal what they can, and live a life what you see mostly in junkyards and landfills, ohh and a typical family is around 10-50 of them mostly none of them work. never go to school or if they go they get fired cos not behaving like they supposed to be in school. and on top of it they make a damn good living on social payments by the goverment cos they "deserve it..." a "minority" which live off society which works and pay taxes

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 09:00:41 pm
content: I am not supporting any police state, and would like to see our police only armed with truncheons again but that is not realistic now so many villains are armed with knives and guns etc, and when some yob that is out of its tiny mind on drugs and drink comes at a policeman the policeman need something a bit more effective than a stick.Every time that a taser is used in the UK an inquiry is undertaken and if the use of the taser results in an injury or death there are several inquiries by the police the independent police complaints commission and a coroner, tasers are not used just for the fun of it.And that video is funny as the soldier getting tasered grabs the privates nuts and put him on the floor first.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 09:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on September 20, 2013, 09:00:41 pmThe problem is, people with disabilities are treated as disposable is the end result. After the inquest, tough luck, he had a weak heart, policeman absolved, but the society that allows the weak to be unprotected is not absolved. It's too late after it's used to review it's use. It didn't protect the current victim and won't protect the next victim, regardless if they know or don't know they are vulnerable.I honestly cannot smile while viewing such a device being used. It's connotation trumps any sideshow resulting from it's use in a demonstration. Also, there's probably a doctor present who has already cleared the volunteer as healthy enough to survive the demonstration, they don't want bad publicity from taserings gone wrong like what happens in real life situations do they?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 10:04:34 pm
content: I'd rather be hit by a taser than a bullet, and I'd rather that too than enough use of a truncheon or CS gas to have a similar affect. There's no perfect way of controlling someone that doesn't want to be controlled. Those that suffer have usually brought it on themselves.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 10:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on September 20, 2013, 10:04:34 pm"West Hartford police and a school there have been hit with a lawsuit after a 12-year-old deaf boy was tasered by police."the deaf 12 year old brought it on to himself?a gang of police couldn't control a 12 year old boy, so brought out their torture toyspolice taser children, old women, people with disabilities, they will taser you if they don't like your tone of voice, it's their torture toyif you're expecting police to act like level headed educated and socially responsive people...those who support tasers still have not explained how vulnerable people will be protected from it's use on them

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 10:30:06 pm
content: Lets keeps this thread about the technical side of tasers as I'm sure the OP intended.The politics and ethical concerns about the use of tasers are a separate issue.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 10:55:16 pm
content: Please read the attached white paper of the 'ADVANCED TASER M26 Less Lethal System' fromCarleton Universityto Steven D. Tuttle (Director of Government & Law Affairs, TASER International Inc., 7339 E. Evans Road, Suite 1, Scottsdale, AZ 85260, USA), with the "humane output" of:15 pulses/s x Ip=18A x 11µs/pulse (162.5mA RMS), Wp=1.76 Joules/pulse, Pp=324,000W and Pavg=26.4W (thus the label 'M26').After doing that, please read the following victims account report (of thatless-lethal system, as it is being called):544 Taser-Related Deaths in the United States Since 2001 (August 23, 2013)My congratulations to every (self-proclaimed) 'humanitarian' individual or organisation out there...My sincere congratulations to every 'humanitarian' educational institution out there, too...I will not mention the governments, which are, when you look at it empirically, groups of individuals claiming the moral right to initiate the use of force against other individuals --which almost always happen to betheir own peoplethey are supposed to serve...But, let's stick to what our TV-set tells us...-George

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 11:07:32 pm
content: I'll say what i do know about electro-stimulation of muscles, which isn't much but should help the discussion.As anyone with any knowledge of electrical history knows, some old dead dude did some early experiments with radio receivers by shoving the output up a frogs leg and watching it twitch. Thus we know that muscles do twitch when a voltage is applied. Now muscles can't move very fast and once the frequency of the applied voltage is above about 1kHz then they stop reacting to the applied voltage.I do know that nerves still react to frequencies of about 500KHz but that's way to fast for the muscles to react. I also know, that 50V at 1800MHz just burns a hole in the end of my finger that stayed painful for a week or two, though I've touched far larger power levels since with far less affect, though i still knew about them.You only need a few microvolts of low frequency or DC current to make the heart twitch, though it is fairly well buried in the body so it's difficult to get current flowing across it.That's about all i know, I've never played with a taser, never seen one used and wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2013, 11:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on September 20, 2013, 10:55:16 pmhttp://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/mil/taser/carletonuniv_000.pdf18 Amps, 18,000 volts (enough to jump a 1/4" gap, peak output 50,000V) for 11 micro secondsP(t) of 324,000 Wattsaverage P of 24.6 Watts injected into the victimbody current 162.5 mAfrom 324,000 Watts to 24.6 Watts for ideal conditions, those with power injections greater than 24.6 Watts because of extraneous circumstances (designed for maximum resistance to still incapacitate, if probes enter the skin, end up inside the mouth, etc., deaths are explained away.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 01:00:31 am
content: Quote from: KJDS on September 20, 2013, 11:07:32 pmRF burns are thermal burns as far as i know, never had one.I do know that 100vac between two 1/4th inch diameter copper pipes an inch apart, at 120Khz, will not burn you. you might not even feel the current flowing across your palm, if you grip both tubes.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 02:07:31 am
content: RF can cause deep tissue burns which take far longer to heal than your typical surface burn.Anyone who has a large tesla coil knows this

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2013, 02:21:20 am
content: I've tried a $30 Chinese TENS unit and it had several settings (apart from overall strength). It surprised me that the settings did feel different (and somewhat like their descriptions) so I imagine that it's all in the waveform.