Only in America... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 am
content: This may seem silly but I've always wondered (seeing as I've never been to your country)...Do grocery stores in America really provide paper bags without handles, instead of plastic bags, like on television?Are light switches connected to table lamps and other floor lamps?Are fresh fruit and vegetables expensive?What the hell is "cheese in a can" / aerosol cheese?! Do people really eat that stuff?Do you guys have proper coffee from espresso machines or is it just instant/pot coffee?Is high fructose corn syrup really a common thing that's used in processed food?Are the beverages at fast food outlets (McDonalds etc...) really "super sized" compared to other parts of the world (e.g: in Australia, a "large" drink at McDonalds is about 600ml -- including a pre-measured portion of ice.) I know McDonalds here used to have "super sized" cups but they were discontinued around 2009-ish.Can people really get "fired" from their jobs for no apparent reason?

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:16:39 am
content: Oh please. You watch way too much American television. (on TV)We like to poke fun at ourselves. Take anything you see on TV with a gain of salt.I'll answer your questions the best I can.------Do grocery stores in America really provide paper bags without handles, instead of plastic bags, like on television?We don't walk, we drive, so no handles needed. Plastic bags are the norm here. Upscale store have here paper bags with handles.------Are light switches connected to table lamps and other floor lamps?In some houses. Depends on the builder.------Are fresh fruit and vegetables expensive?Is a watermelon for a dollar expensive? America is covered with farm land. I grew up in next to cows, grapes (for wine), and peaches.------What the hell is "cheese in a can" / aerosol cheese?! Do people really eat that stuff?As a joke, yes. It's freaking cheese in a can!----Do you guys have proper coffee from espresso machines or is it just instant/pot coffee?Ever hear of Starbucks?-----Is high fructose corn syrup really a common thing that's used in processed food?It's used everywhere. Go check you cupboard.----Are the beverages at fast food outlets (McDonalds etc...) really "super sized" compared to other parts of the world (e.g: in Australia, a "large" drink at McDonalds is about 600ml -- including a pre-measured portion of ice.) I know McDonalds here used to have "super sized" cups but they were discontinued around 2009-ish.No one I know under the age of 30 eats at McDonalds.------Can people really get "fired" from their jobs for no apparent reason?Quite the opposite. In most companies, they need a good 6 month paper trail. Lower the pay the easier you can be let go..

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:18:04 am
content: I didn't mean to post this in "EEVblog Specific" either. I had the page open from earlier this morning. My bad. Can someone move this thread please?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:00:28 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 amNo. Paper bags have handles glued on (although they can rip off, they are stable under heavier loads than polyethylene)Some stores will use paper or plastic, at your option. But some left-leaning cities have either banned plastic bags, or required a tax on them.QuoteWall-plate light switches can control electrical outlets, yes.QuoteI think the meaning of expensive varies with the cost basis of the area and the type of produce. Also, some stores are much more expensive for produce than others. But typically large, well-stocked supermarkets are located in affluent suburban areas, leaving the residents of inner cities with fewer produce choices. It's a combination of corporate consolidation (displacing neighborhood grocers) and disinvestment in blighted areas.QuoteNo, I don't think anyone eats it. It's not actually cheese at all, but a stabilized oil emulsion product, like Velveeta. Sometimes the kinds of things the government says are good for you don't make any sense. For example, restaurants are allowed to use non-nutritive filler made from wood pulp in blender drinks, but cheeses like Camembert made from raw milk aged less than two months are illegal. But I gather that in Europe there are EU directives that make even less sense.QuoteMost Americans distinguish espresso (extracted with steam) from coffee (which is just infused). Both are popular, but home espresso machines are expensive. Unfortunately, most workplaces have switched to "single-serving cups" which are completely horrid and generate mountains of waste.QuoteYes, very common, because of large supplies of subsidized corn (maize to the rest of the world). Corn syrup is a widely used baking material anyway, but it is substituted for sugar in a great many products because it is cheaper. There's a widespread opinion that HFCS is worse than sugar for your health, but no scientific consensus. Companies sometimes make publicity by saying they will eliminate it, and then quietly switch back to it a year later.QuoteMost of the cost built into these food products is the labor time of the server, so prices for larger portions are made very attractive. The price for a soda at a movie theatre, for example, could be $3 for a small, $4 for a medium, and $5 for a large (8 oz, 16 oz, 32 oz). The choice of size is up to the consumer, but rationally they should purchase a larger size if there's a good chance they want more than 8 oz (in our example). Even if they have to throw the rest away they would pay less. Larger portions also produce proportionally less waste.QuoteIt depends on the state. Most states are called "at-will" which means that either the employer or employee can sever their relationship without giving a reason. If a union is involved, they typically will negotiate contract language that provides some remedies.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:21:04 am
content: LOL helius - ummm - yea.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:23:09 am
content: I'll add more fuel to the fire from things I learned there (disclaimer, I consider the US an overall nice country)-Many foods are irradiated prior shipping with gamma rays from Cobalt-60. It does not make the food radioactive but it can create free radicals and lower the quality of food-Car insurance companies can get information from for example speeding tickets and raise your rates. Giving private information the govt has on you to private companies would be outrageous in Europe.-Its legal to give dairy cows hormones to increase milk productionand lastly never understood why they don't use RCCBs in each and every home like we do in Europe, maybe its because 120V is less killer than 230V, but anyway never saw there a Fuse box in as bad as shape as Daves's.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:26:25 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on August 21, 2016, 10:18:34 amWhere I grew up, we have an expression: "It takes one to know one."It seems to me that the most prejudiced people are the first to draw the "bias" card, even in situations where it doesn't approach being relevant. Why is that? Psychoanalysis calls it "projection", but I don't think it offers a testable explanation.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:47:20 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 21, 2016, 10:38:15 amIt's not freedom. Basically you're saying that depending on your wealth you get basic food (not oysters) in different qualities.Good for you that you're embracing capitalism and take it to the extreme, I also hope it doesn't crush you someday

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:47:52 am
content: Yes, the canned spray-on cheese exist! I bought it for a friend (Walmart, about 15 years ago). He has seen it on TV and asked for it. I've never asked him how it tasted... And yes, he's still alive

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:48:51 am
content: QuoteBut isn't that life? for example, rich people drive better cars; rich people live in better houses; rich people eat better meals; ...Should we force everyone to live identical lives?QuoteI have never seen spray-on cheese. Maybe the OP was talking about cream cheese?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:52:38 am
content: fruit and vegetables are generally more expensive, as they are perishable and industrialized production isn't easy.I think such a comparison is meaningless. The cost of living in most parts of the US is considerably lower than that in most parts of Europe. as to the quality of life, that's highly subjective and difficult to judge.One measure of that, however, is immigration / emigration between those two. My causal observations are that a lot more Europeans want to live in the US than the other way around.Most Americans who admire Europe want to import the European type of society to the US but still live in the US.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 12:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 11:48:51 amplease reread my sentence and focus on the word basic. Dont extrapolate my argument to imply that I'm defending socialism, cause im not.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 12:13:10 pm
content: QuoteWhat do you mean by "basic"? What's basic to you may not be basic enough to me, and vice versa.Just because it is basic doesn't mean it is necessary;Just because it is necessary doesn't mean it is absolutely vital;Just because it is absolutely vital to you doesn't mean it is absolutely vital to me.Just because it is absolutely vital to me now doesn't mean it will be absolutely vital to me in the future.Freedom is about giving people choices, not about making such choices for them, no matter how good intentioned such a move may be.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 12:16:57 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 12:13:10 pmok, I'll leave the discussion here

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 12:26:52 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 11:48:51 amWhat a slob.It comes as no surprise at all that he's a Yankees fan.He probably drinks Bud Light beer too, not that it seems to be helping.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 12:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 amThis idea seems to have fallen out of favour in the UK, but it is a really good idea, centre lighting is awful.I did notice that food in remote areas was on a par with the UK, ie a bit expensive.Americans seem to buy a lot of food in one go.McDonalds was really cheap compared to UK, huge milkshakes tooI didn't notice any paper bags, but then I didn't find any cherry pie either.I've never understood why you have all these great things, but only 10 days holiday a year?

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:01:06 pm
content: Well, I have been traveling trough the USA, Australia and New Zealand for over 15 months and there are many many many things I don't understand at all.Mainly the electrics and power/switch/fuse boards and wiring is really(seriously, really UNSAFE! and inefficient)Also construction is done on ways that are just asking for trouble.But I guess maybe I am kind of spoiled, German (and Dutch) constructions are build to last.But what makes it really funny, now I am back in NL and I am thinking exactly the same about a lot of other stuff here!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:14:16 pm
content: QuoteYou never entered the discussion at all. Just an illogical assertion that you cannot back up.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:18:07 pm
content: QuoteHard to have a conversation if you don't expand on such deficiencies.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 01:14:16 pmWell, I don't know. Why would you WANT to eat food that is full of hormones and other things that aren't good for you?You will find a lot of good scientific articles about this field and that's the main reason why these types of food are even illegal in the EU.For a good reason! And I guess that's why MasterTech doesn't even want to defend his point.It's pretty much on the same league as breathing pure asbestos.Freedom doesn't mean that everything has to be available for the public.Freedom means that you have the right to use it. So if you want to put a ton of horrible stuff in your food at home, nobody can prevent you from doing it.But governments have more reasons for applying certain rules and laws. Sometimes it is just prevent ignorant people from getting into trouble and therefore exploding the costs for an healthcare system for example.And with all the respect, but from the experience I have and from the stories I have heard from family from the USA, I am very sorry (and sad), but in my opinion I don't feel the US government puts a lot of effort and promotion for an healthy way of living.The USA is in the top of one of the countries with most problems with obesity for example.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:44:09 pm
content: My first introduction to the concept of cheese in a can....

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:48:18 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 01:18:07 pmWell, yes, my apologies.I kind of regret saying it, because I was afraid someone would ask that.It is very difficult to go into details, but it's more just in general.Maybe you have heard of the idea of 'deutsche gründlichkeit'?Which translates pretty much to something like 'German efficiency and robustness'.In the end (and ones again, this is in general, can really different per individual, so no offense) it comes down to the culture of the countries.Before I go further, I like to add a little disclaimer that the following is not right or wrong about certain culture, just only DIFFERENT!People in NZ/AUS are just satisfied much easier, or (quote) 'had enough for the day and see how it will work out the next day'.In the German culture (which Dutch culture is very close to, even if we don't like to admit it!) people don't rest before the project is perfectly done in every little detail.People in the US are somewhere in between.(BTW, these things are based on MY experience and stories I have heard)Both sides have downsides AND benefits.In Germany people can go to far into perfect little details, therefore a project will never finish.In NZ/AUS projects can look sloppy and unfinished (to others at least)In the end it all comes down what you think is important in live.So ones again (!) there is no right or wrong, it's just a different approach.People who travel a lot, know exactly what I mean by this.One example.This is how a Dutch/German fuse board looks like (see attached photo).This is how a standard NZ/AUS fuse board looks like:https://youtu.be/dEqlOj6_m0Q?t=5m6s(and that's a nice one, I have seen ones with live open and unused wires on the front)

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 21, 2016, 10:38:15 amIn Europe strawberries are irradiated with Cobalt-60. They last longer in the supermarket shelf if they are processed this way.(I don't know if or how other vegetables arehardenedthe same way.)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 amthese three are very common herefresh fruit/veggies can get goddamn expensive in cities in north italy (but there you go to farmers markets)actually i wish more groceries gave me paper bags, i always find new ways to re use them and i always need a couple

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:27:24 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on August 21, 2016, 12:29:01 pmHe provide you with useful cultural information and you are complaining. This allows you to understand what states/municipal are more likely to have this ban, e.g. more likely in California than Texas. The US is large, populous, and with significant cultural differences.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:31:05 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 12:13:10 pmIn such a system freedom of choice is NOT on the individual being able to choose what is good for him (supposing he even knows, given there are many efforts done so he doesn't), but on companies being able to choose how to maximize their profits by dumping the most crappy things they can on him.Freedom as you call it is nothing but an awfully hypocritical illusion of smoke and mirrors for the lowly Joe Average, and you fall right for it.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: hammy on August 21, 2016, 01:53:58 pmEU yes, Germany not

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 11:52:38 amEurope is pretty diverse, so I wouldn't say that statement is true about the whole of Europe. It's probably true about the poorer eastern European countries such as Poland, Ukraine, Bulgaria etc. but I doubt that many people in France, Germany, Ireland, UK etc. feel that way. I certainly wouldn't want to live in the US, no way.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:37:01 pm
content: Freedom means that you can believe and think what you want, without any consequences like being put in jail or being killed.Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you like to do.Ironically freedom in western societies also has limitations and they differ per country on very subtle ways.edit:My observation is that a lot of people from the more 'open minded' states actually want to go to Europe.I have talked to people who seriously considering moving because of the Trump clown.A lot of Europeans who like to go to the US only think about the bright side and the big cities New York, LA etc.They all believe they are going to make it there, get sucked into it.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 21, 2016, 02:31:05 pmEnglish please. No hablamos newspeak.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 21, 2016, 02:44:59 pmI can follow it perfectly?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:53:05 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on August 21, 2016, 02:37:01 pms/open minded/left leaning/Quote from: b_force on August 21, 2016, 02:37:01 pmSilicon valley is full of engineers from all over the world they are doing quiet well.Quote from: Hero999 on August 21, 2016, 02:35:24 pmSome have difficulty with the concept of personal liberty.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:55:02 pm
content: QuoteWhen you are starving and there isn't much else? Just one example.Hormones can be good for you and there are people going through hormone therapies, in case you don't know.Plus, what is "full of hormones" anyway?A more realistic example is this: which of the following two societies do you want to live in?1) organic beef, at very expensive prices;2) organic beef, at very expensive prices; plus industrial beef, at less expensive prices.Even a fool wouldn't have picked the wrong choice here.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:58:44 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 amSome regions, like California, are really trying to get plastic bags banned because they are not biodegradable. So, many people bring their own bags which hold a LOT more product (thus HEAVY) but hold together better than paper (or plastic for that matter):http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Costco-Wholesale-Tote-Bag-1-Piece-New/243724231QuoteSure! Our outlets are duplex devices (two outlets) and many times one of them will be switched while the other is not. It is very common to plug in floor lamps or table lamps into the switched outlet. We don't tend to have ceiling mounted light fixtures. Older houses (1950s) have them but unless the light is incorporated with a ceiling fan, they just aren't that common today.QuoteWhat's 'expensive' mean? At a reasonably upscale supermarket, there will be a produce section with probably 3000 SF of area (or more) and just about every conceivable type of produce. It will all be fresh and properly displayed. It seems to be pretty affordableIt's not unusual for a supermarket to be over 100,000 SF and the Walmart Super Stores are up around 300,000 SF - and that's just one store!QuoteI don't personally eat it but it is available. It's probably pretty good on Ritz Crackers.QuoteYou can get coffee any way you want it at Starbucks or one of their competitors and you can certainly make it any way you want at home. The average vending machine or office style coffee machine are going to make really lousy coffee.QuoteYup! So what? It's also used in soda drinks in place of sugar. Real sugar is expensive!QuoteWith a couple of cities trying to limit portions, McDonalds is changing. The thing is, people should be able to buy what they want. This idea of 'common good' and 'nanny state' is utter nonsense. I like Coke, I drink Coke. Sure, it has high fructose corn syrup and it's probably not good for me but I'm going to drink it anyway.QuoteMany states are 'employment at will' as described above. But it cuts both ways. I can walk out the door and never look back. Well, we do have to settle some paperwork regarding my accrued benefits but there is no indentured servitude (other than formal apprenticeship programs). There is only a subtle difference between getting fired and laid off. Either way, it's time to find another job.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:00:48 pm
content: QuoteIsn't that exactly what you are trying to do? Just because you don't think beef with hormones is good you want to take it away from others who may not dislike it as much as you do. You wanted to eliminate a choice for others. Under the pretense of "freedom".Isn't that a little bit ironic?QuoteI think you are right: the refugees are perfect examples of that.Quote"talked" is the operative world. Come back when those people actually "moved" to Europe.QuoteSounds like you are telling us that those "enlightened" Europeans aren't so bright after all.Or you are saying that they wanted to move to the US because it is more "open minded" than Europe? That would be funnier.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:04:08 pm
content: QuoteTrue in most states ("at will"): where a party can be fired for any reason or no reason at all.A great provision btw for the employees. I always wondered why the Europeans don't have that.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:10:57 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on August 21, 2016, 10:23:09 amInsurance costs include the concept of risk. I'm a low mileage, low risk driver with a pretty clean record. Why should my rates be as high as those of the drunk driver with 2 or 3 DUIs? Of course the insurance companies get the information. Now they're trying to get the information from my onboard computer to find out just how fast I drive (and where) as well as how hard I accelerate. So far, that is not happening. But they do offer a discount if you subscribe to the program.QuoteWe have GFCI devices set at 14 mA on all circuits used in high risk areas such as outdoors, garage, kitchen, bath. We have arc fault devices required in certain living spaces. The arc fault breaker is a pretty new requirement and I have never seen one in the wild. What we don't do is install a single RCCB device as a main breaker and set it at 30 mA.ETA: I should point out that the requirement for these devices is not retroactive so there are a lot of houses that don't have them.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:14:06 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 02:55:02 pmoption 3: instead of big monopoly companies (who's main interest is profit) ruling very important things like healthcare and food, invest in a system that makes sure that everybody has at least the basics for proper healthy food and a good healthcare system.Second to that, cut half of the meat needs. People really don't need to eat meat every single day at all. Yes, it can be nice, but that's not a proper argument.Wine and beer are also nice. It's all about the pure necessities.If companies can invest in producing unhealthy foods (= loads of sugar and saturated fats, which scientifically proven, leads to health problems in the long run) on the most efficient way, they can do the same for healthier foods.The fact that it doesn't exist, is not a an argument that it's not possible!!This cycle is a perfect example how the capitalist world works. By keeping things as they always were, you minimize the possibilities of risk and therefore your profits will be highest. That doesn't mean it's best for society, in fact probably far from it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 21, 2016, 02:27:24 pmFixed it for you!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:18:42 pm
content: QuoteSecond to that, cut half of the meat needs. People really don't need to eat meat every single day at all. Yes, it can be nice, but that's not a proper argument.Sounds like you are longing to live in the old USSR, North Korea and CubaNorth Korea for example has completed eliminated obesity (other than its dear leaders of course).QuoteIt is YOUR necessities. Not necessarily other people's necessities: that's the point of this whole discussion -> your desire to impose your value system onto others, with no regard for their freedom to chose for themselves.QuoteAnd that's a wonderful thing to many.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 03:00:48 pmI am not talking about what 'I think'.I am talking about FACTS. There is more than enough research done on this field.For the same reason there are safety rules on electronics. I personally don't bother about having my wires open, because I am aware of it, plus I don't have a weak heart or something, so being killed by mains is very close to zero.In the same way of the way you think, you could also say we could just trash all safety and other rules, because people could always think different about it.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:24:44 pm
content: Do grocery stores in America really provide paper bags without handles, instead of plastic bags, like on television?Yes, but here in Oregon, Multnomah County, all plastic bags are outlawed. They can only put your groceries in Paper Bags, and you can request (from some stores) to have handles on them.Are light switches connected to table lamps and other floor lamps?Some do, yes. Sometimes the upper part or lower part of a 2 input wall receptacle is wired through a wall switch, so that your floor lamp turns on with the wall switch. Sometimes, if the Electrician knows his stuff, he/she turns that receptacle upside down so you can distinguish it from other receptacles on the wall and know that 1/2 of it is switched.Are fresh fruit and vegetables expensive?YES!, Here, they are called Organic. They use no pesticides or other chemicals, and tend to not last as long on the shelf. To eat healthy here in the US, definitely costs more. But in all reality, the only FRESH fruit and vegetables will only come straight off the farm or what we call a farmer's market (not from a grocery store), which is usually in a small area of the city on a certain weekday or weekend. This is where all the local farmer's bring there goods to sell. The US gives an incentive for low income people who are on food dividends (AKA food Stamps) to purchase food and vegetables from Farmer's Markets, sometimes at a 50% discount at these markets when they use their food dividends.What the hell is "cheese in a can" / aerosol cheese?! Do people really eat that stuff?It's just as it sounds, Cheese in a Can. Though, most of them aren't even real cheese. It doesn't taste to bad on crackers. It's like SPAM...no one really knows what's really in the can.Do you guys have proper coffee from espresso machines or is it just instant/pot coffee?YES! There are specialty coffee shops that actually brew their coffee using these machines, and also brew them the old style and not in coffee pots. We have a place called StarBucks which is on every corner practically, even inside grocery stores and colleges. Though I have never been there myself, as I don't drink coffee, but I've been told the coffee is rather good.Is high fructose corn syrup really a common thing that's used in processed food?Sadly, it's used in a lot of food, yes.Are the beverages at fast food outlets (McDonalds etc...) really "super sized" compared to other parts of the world (e.g: in Australia, a "large" drink at McDonalds is about 600ml -- including a pre-measured portion of ice.) I know McDonalds here used to have "super sized" cups but they were discontinued around 2009-ish.I think in 2004, McDonald's started phasing out their 42 ounce (1242mL) drinks (aka, Super-Sized) and only the 32 ounce (946mL) drinks (AKA Large) now remains. So even still, the Size in the US seems to be 1/3 larger than what you have there, if you say your Large size is only 600mL. Also, the straws at McDonald's, if anyone has noticed, seem to be slightly larger in diameter than other fast food places. McDonald's was smart here. Most people don't even realize they are drinking more. It's a brilliant marketing scheme. The faster you drink eat, the more you eat or drink. If you drink or eat slower, your stomach sends a message to the brain that you are getting full, therefore you actually eat less.Can people really get "fired" from their jobs for no apparent reason?In most states, YES. Most states in the US have what they call a Right to Work claus, meaning you can work wherever you want (regardless of race, color, sex, religious status, etc), in any type of job you qualify for, and you can be fired without notice or reason at any time. Some states (very few), the employer needs to give a reason and, unless you are under contract, like some teachers have a ten year contract, employer MUST give notice. However, if you are fired for a reason that does not comply with federal and local laws, you can sue the company and win damages (lost wages, future wages, even for Holiday/sick pay, etc that you would have otherwise received, and pain & suffering). For example, if you are pregnant and you get fired, and you can prove it was because you were pregnant and yet did not effect your ability to perform your duties....you can sue and win. Previous employers can not say anything to a future employer calling for a reference that could jeopardize the employee for that new job. For instance, if you were terminated from a job, the past employer can only legally say that you no longer work there. They can't divulge the reasons as to why you no longer are employed by them. They can only give the time (days, years, months, dates) that you worked for them, and what your job duties were. They cannot say whether you did the job duties good or bad. I'm not an expert on this, but If I remember correctly, that's about all they can say.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:27:49 pm
content: QuoteI thought you were advocating organic beef only.Maybe you have secretely changed your mind.QuoteThen you would be grossly mistaken. I would be advocating1) if you are going to build a house of your own, wire whatever you want; if you were to sell that house to the next person, you have to disclose that, and potentially rectify it if you want the town to certify the deed, and the mortgage company to lend you money;2) if you are going to build a house for others, listen to them but the same concept as above would apply.It is fairly close to reality but not exactly.It is all about giving people choices and hold them accountable for their choices: you have the freedom to build your house off code; you just don't have the right to demand that others live with the consequences of your choices.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 03:18:42 pmI think it's a weird way of looking what necessities are.I am just talking about the needs to keep people in live. It's pretty obvious that wine and beer are not part of that.I also don't follow why you're comparing things with the USSR, Noth Korea and Cuba.Socialism or social thoughts are very very very different than these examples who abused the whole idea.I do know that in some countries they made people believe (= pretty much brainwashed) completely different things, which is more sad than bad.Fortunately there are enough books and articles to prove that these thoughts are very wrong.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:35:22 pm
content: QuoteBecause that's the utopia you are advocating. This is what you wanted for us all:QuoteIn north korea, there is no big monopoly, no capitalism, the society collectively invests in things and provides their citizens for the basics. free healthcare and very healthy food: meat consumption is basic only.The same for the USSR and Cuba, more or less.So your system had been tried, at the cost of millions of lives, with a lot (of tragedies) to show for.To bad that you just want others to live in that utopia, not you and your family.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:36:32 pm
content: The last point actually reminded me of Obama's attitude towards Obamacare: it is sooooo good that everyone should live under it; except his family.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:36:58 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on August 21, 2016, 03:14:06 pmWell, I for one don't want the government involved in my healthcare. I'm pretty happy with the system we have and I won't be signing up for Obamacare any time soon. I'm eligible for Medicare but I don't use it.Healthy food is affordable and available - it just requires cooking and we're pretty much too lazy to do that.People make choices with their lives. They choose to not get an education, they choose to not get a job, they choose to take welfare (which provides some pretty healthy food, actually), they choose to eat badly, they choose to use drugs or whatever. I'm supposed to pay for their bad choices? You want to take even more money out of my pocket to feed people who don't even get out of bed in the morning? You can see how I might not support such a program.People should be allowed to make choices. They should also live with the results of those decisions without whining all the time. Of course there is income inequality. There is also effort inequality. The new idea is equal outcomes without equal effort.QuoteAnd who are you to make that decision for me? I'll eat anything I want, whenever I want, in whatever quantity I want. Your opinion, and the opinion of the government, is irrelevant!QuoteBeer is a necessity! Wine, not so much... To the extent that they don't drive drunk, I don't care how much beer people drink. I noticed that the Germans have a national pastime drinking beer. I really enjoyed my time there back in '66-'67 (US Army in Mannheim).QuoteI am an investor! I buy stock in companies that make profits so that the value of my stock increases and I obtain more wealth. I am not the slightest bit interested in a company that tries to solve world hunger but whose stock price doesn't increase. And that's the way it's supposed to work. Capitalism at its finest!Now, if the government wants to change behavior, they have various opportunities. Look what happened with gasoline. Some moron decided to reblend gasoline with ethanol and our farmers were encouraged to grow corn to make ethanol. With a guaranteed market for corn, two things happened: The price of corn for food increased and the price of gasoline increased. Look about 2/3 the way down this page (the yellow band showing the percentage of corn production going to ethanol):http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/corn/background.aspxWhile you're at it, notice that the US Government limits the number of acres that can be planted in corn. This GUARANTEES a high price for corn while allowing ethanol production to restrict corn for food products.It's not good when governments get involved with business. We should stop the farm subsidies and let them swim on their own.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:45:05 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 02:55:02 pmThe fact people can that easily get to a point where they're starving and can't afford decent food in the first place is where the problem is.Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 02:55:02 pmA middle ground where organic beef is priced correctly and doesn't require bottom dollar one to compensate, there is absolutely no reason for it to be priced "very expensive" apart from a few using the opportunity to fill their pockets. Only a fool would think these either of those choices are the right ones, or the only ones to choose from.Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 03:18:42 pmThe US are among the top players of that game...Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 03:35:22 pmMight want to look at your own history. Yeah on your side many of those lives are those of poor brainwashed soldiers who were tricked into actually feeling good sacrificing themselves, but at the end of the day it's no better.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 04:07:00 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on August 21, 2016, 03:27:56 pmI didn't spend 6 years in college, working days, going to school at night and then work my ass off for 30 years to just 'live'. I intend to live well. I plan to do what I want, when I want for as long as I want. Nor am I jealous of others who have had more success. I'll never be a billionaire, that's just a tragedy I'll have to live with. OTOH, I don't plan to give away what I have to people who have made little or no effort.I see the tidal wave of liberalism sweeping over the US and it makes me want to puke! The Obama regime is, without doubt, the worst 8 years in American history. And I thought Jimmy Carter was bad...Never say politics can't get any worse. Politicians will take it as a challenge!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 04:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 21, 2016, 03:45:05 pmIn the US, there is no need for this to ever happen. There are programs in place to deal with it at every level. Particularly for kids where the schools provide free breakfast and lunch for the economically disadvantaged. But, of course, the kids can't get the free food if they don't go to school and this is on their parents.We have all kinds of programs to deal with all kinds of problems except Veteran's health and mental health. Those two problems are allowed to run rampant. It's a disgrace the way our Veteran's are treated. Let a mosquito show up and we're all over it but treat PTSD? Not so much...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:07:54 pm
content: I'm Canadian but I lived, studied and worked in the US for 5 years (North East). My parents are US citizens living in New Jersey.I can tell you from my experience that you can choose to live and eat and do things however you want. It's a free country and the questions posted by the OP are not indicative of US options or choices, but individual choices and a culture of excess, consumption and waste... if you happen to be that way.But if you choose to eat healthy, buy normal food, not over-size, bring your own reusable bags, buy coffee, etc.... you can do it. It seems there is a culture of more capitalism, less government telling you what or how you should eat or buy, and employers having more power and not getting screwed by employees. Don't get me wrong, but US still has plenty of regulation and employee protection, and way more is settled through litigation, but making sure businesses can thrive is one reason so many people go to the US to make good money and buy big.At the end of the day, the individual person or family makes the choice... US gives you options, but other countries restrict you either due to extra taxes, lack of options, lack of competition, over-regulation, stricter laws, and many other impositions. I'm not really sure whether I'd rather have the government and business environment in my country limit me "for my own good " or if I was in the US would I have the discipline to hold myself or over-do it with food, car, house, etc?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:10:42 pm
content: Never had the HFCS coke much, but the stuff with real cane sugar is much better tasting. Easiest way to find it in the USA I have heard is to look for Kosher coke, which has to be made with cane sugar.Of course, here I can drive for 20 minutes and be in a field of cane sugar, which does taste quite nice raw in the stalk. Quite a few places you can buy a cane smoothie, just cane crushed in a press, and with the juice in a cup, along with some crushed ice, and an optional flavour.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:31:39 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 21, 2016, 05:10:42 pmWe don't grow sugar around here but, of all the stupid ideas in the world, we do grow rice! California is a desert and we waste water growing rice! Walnuts and almonds are popular. Did you know it takes a gallon of water to export ONE almond to China (our big market)? No wonder we don't have any water for people to drink. We import our beer from Colorado - they have plenty of water. And we do grow sugar cane in southern California.http://ca.water.usgs.gov/projects/central-valley/about-central-valley.htmlI live in the Delta region of the Central Valley. Check out the Valley Facts! Look at how much food we produce on so little land. Look at how much water we waste doing it! Agriculture in California is a $17 billion piece of a $2.4 trillion economy. We should get completely out of agriculture; it makes up 0.7% of our economy and uses 80% of the water. Google's petty cash drawer has more money than agriculture brings in. In addition, we have to support massive migrant communities with education, welfare, health care and every other benefit. I wouldn't be surprised if agriculture was net negative to the economy. In fact, I'd bet on it!So, where's this going? Well, the fruit and vegetables I buy at the grocery store are almost all imported from South America! We export the higher quality stuff and import lower quality. Capitalism at its worst (and best...).

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:33:55 pm
content: QuoteSo as a society, we should afford our citizens affordable organic beef? But how affordable is "affordable"? should they be afforded an organic stake once a year? once a month? or once a day? should they be afforded to consume such food in a world-class restaurant of their own choice, served by their personal waiters and with a world-class wine, in the company of world-class entertainment as well? .......If organic beef is to be made affordable, how about others? would wine be next? how about cigarette? or gym membership? or vacation in Fiji? or a great family? beautiful wives and adorable kids?After all, wouldn't it be incredibly cruel to give a man his "affordable organic beef" but deny his right to basic happiness in life?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:37:06 pm
content: QuoteThat's a great idea until you get into a war, or a huge natural disaster.Of all the government programs, agriculture subsidies are one that are the easiest to justify: you can survive without google.com or android, but we cannot survive without food.Having a strong (industrialized) agriculture is essential to a country's and its people's long-term survival.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 03:35:22 pmSorry, but like I said before, if these countries and systems they used are examples how you think socialism or social system work, than you are very ignorant on the subject and definition of what socialism is.There is also a lack of any logical sense, because other systems failed in the past for completely and entirely different reasons, doesn't mean other ideas can't work. That is pretty much blaming the company who is producing tires for your flat tire which was caused by a little sharp stone on the road.On top of that, shall we sum all the millions of people/countries and cultures who are being forced against will and religion, raped, murdered and tortured by western capitalist countries?That list is by far bigger and less humane.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:56:53 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 05:37:06 pmYou are absolutely correct!I'm not suggesting that the US get out of agriculture, just California! We are a desert, we always have been and to have an insignificant portion of our economy consume 80% of one of our most important resources is absurd. One gallon of water per almond! Growing rice in a desert! How stupid is that? And the vast majority of the almond crop is exported to China!Talk about disproportionate allocation of resources, 0.7% of our economy uses 80% of our water.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:06:03 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on August 21, 2016, 03:24:44 pmIf it's the same as in California then they cannot give or sell you plastic bags with handles (no handles are ok, e.g. in the produce department) but it's ok for you to buy them from other sources, poses them, use them, and even bring them to the store and let the staff bag your items.Amazon is your friend. Search for 't-shirt bags'. When I bring them to the store the staff like them, they bring nostalgia from freeier times.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:07:50 pm
content: QuoteAbsolutely, if you can prove that 1) people were not forced against their will / religion, raped, murdered and tortured before they were subject to capitalism and after they are no longer subject to capitalism.On the flip side, capitalism has a pretty good track record of lifting people out of poverty: the fact that with the amount of disdain you have demonstrated for capitalism and love for socilism, you seem to work really hard to remain in a capitalism society is pretty telling, isn't it?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:09:23 pm
content: If the price of water to California farms took into consideration it's scarcity, and farming subsidies were cut back, there would be more free economic forces involved. And if someone still wanted to pay for high price, so be it.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:10:27 pm
content: QuoteI'm not sure. what else could you use the matter for? taking a shower every hour?The drought in california, as I understand it, is mostly made by the state's mis-management of its water resources.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:17:19 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on August 21, 2016, 01:48:18 pmWhoa, that's a bit scary,"hang on while I tuck this unlabelled wire back into the spaghetti..."I've seen safer lashups in the cellar of 150 year old buildings.Is that a normal fuse panel in Australia, or does Dave like to live on the edge?+1 for the metal box though, some idiot in the UK thought that our plastic boxes would last forever and nobody on a sink estate would ever break into them.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:45:55 pm
content: I'll approach this from living 20km north of the United States. Notice I say "The United States". "America" is two continents, not a countryAs a Canadian, you'll never ever heard a Canadian refer to the USA as "America", it's always "The US", or "The States"My answers in Red belowQuote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 am

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 06:54:51 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 06:10:27 pmWell, folks in southern California and to a lesser extent in northern California have pools to fill. We have to live up to the image.Seriously, we had a mandatory reduction last year and it was wildly successful! So successful that the local water company has jacked up rates to recover the lost revenue. So now we pay the same for less and if we go back to the old ways, and we will, the bill will increase mightily.QuoteI don't remember the last time we built a dam. The tree huggers just won't allow it. Our population keeps increasing without bound but our ability to store water remains unchanged. There are additional problems with the Delta region in that fresh water flows are required to prevent salt water intrusion through San Francisco Bay. So you have to separate the lies!The big lie is that agriculture uses 80% of the water and I prefer to use that number. Here's how it really goes: 50% of all water that lands in California flows out through streams and rivers. These flows are required to prevent salt water intrusion and support marine life. That water is not available for allocation. 40% of all water goes toward farming and 10% for industrial and residential use. That makes farming look a lot better, they only use 40%. But it's 80% of the water that can be allocated!Water rights are another issue. Some farmers have 'senior rights' that their families bought and paid for when certain reservoirs were built. Their rights are superior to any other use. Thus, they waste the water and grow almonds! To ship to China...San Francisco gets their water from a watershed they own - the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir. So what do they try to do? They want to blow up the reservoir because it is in Yosemite National Park:http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/11/hetch-hetchy-demolition-measure-defeated-in-san-francisco.htmlIdiots!Mismanagement comes in many forms. Most of the water flowing down the Colorado River is controlled by the Feds and they don't have a stellar track record in managing, well, anything.Most of California's water problems are solvable: Limit growth, change crops, build dams, etc. None of which work for the tax and spend group up in Sacramento. They are beholding to the farmers who produce 0.7% of our GDP and they certainly don't want to tangle with the tree huggers!Incidentally, Facebook has revenues equal to all of California agriculture with just 13,000 employees versus about 155,000 for crop production. Furthermore, Facebook employees earn enough money to pay their way in terms of taxes vs benefits. Interesting, each Facebook employee generates $1 million+ in revenue.One high tech employer contributes more to the California GDP than all of agriculture.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 07:07:20 pm
content: QuoteRight to work means something else.A significant portion of it is the collection of union dues, specifically, government's / employers' role in collecting union dues for the union. Some years ago, unions, through their support of elected officials, got laws passed that compelled governments' and employers' to collect union dues on all (hourly) employees in any union shop, whether the employee wants or not to join the union.in various campaign financial lawsuits, the unions got themselves to a point where they argued that campaign contributions are a form of political speech (which laid the foundation for citizens united).Conservatives seized that argument and argued that if campaign donations are political speech, employees who were compelled to make union dues were forced to make a political speech they might otherwise not make.Thus in some states, governments and employers were forbid from collecting union dues on behalf of the unions. In other states, this practice continues.Just for fun, at one point, the unions were proposing to make it a federal law to compel employers / governments to collect union dues. Had they done that, "right to work" would have been a federal law. Lucky for the union.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 07:12:34 pm
content: Quotethus, if the famers didn't use the water, it would have been wasted - flowing into the ocean, as a huge part of the water does today, in the middle of a drought.QuoteThat's your problem #1,Quote$1 of FB-based GDP is far less valuable than $1 of agriculture-based GDP, for reasons I laid out earlier.What you said about FB vs. agriculture says a lot about the priorities of the society, far less about whether agricultural use of water is a waste or not.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 07:21:53 pm
content: Only in America are the plugs so small that in the dark you step on them before you see them. Luckily, I don't have high carpet or it would be full of nasty metal suprises. I have some stuff with plugs the size of my thumb and flat (only 2 wire). This is only on old stuff though, new 2-wire plugs have a small safety ridge so you can't touch the conductors from the back. Three wire plugs have no such safety features, just to keep them tiny. We don't have plug fuses either, except on light strings, but even then they are the size of rice.#dwarfplugs

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 07:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on August 21, 2016, 07:21:53 pm#RejoiceCompare this:To this:

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 07:07:20 pmWe know, I just say that the naming is somewhat ironic, as a rule employees have fewer rights (and lower minimum wages) in "right to work" states. if you think banning "closed shops" was done for the benefit of the employees, I've got a device to use the wasted 80% of batteries to sell you

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 02:55:02 pmYou probably do, as the US has horrible efficiency with its healthcare.The two most common measures of the healthiness/effectiveness of healthcare are life expectancy and infant mortality where the US ranks a very poor 31st (below Costa Rica) and 56th (behind Croatia) respectively.The only winners in the US healthcare system are the insurance companies and healthcare providers who have a pretty good racket going on that they really don't want anyone to mess with. The biggest problem is that there's a huge number of US citizens that really think they're number one, when they're nowhere close.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:26:04 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 07:12:34 pmThere wouldn't be a drought were it not for farming.QuoteYes, old age is a problem...The last dam was built 35 years ago but most of them were built in the '50s. Meanwhile, population has increased from about 10 million in 1950 to about 40 million now.QuoteYes it does! I have no issue with agriculture in the Midwest. They don't even have tech in the Midwest, what else do they have to do with their land? But irrigating a desert is stupid! It would be like planting almonds in the Middle East!There's a lot more value in the FB $1 simply because the income is high enough to pay for the benefits the employees and their families receive.You do realize why Death Valley is so named, right?https://www.nps.gov/deva/index.htmOr the Anza Borrego State Parkhttp://www.desertusa.com/anza_borrego/du-abpmain.htmlI hiked across this desert one time. I used to ride dirt bikes down there on the weekends. Raw camping at its best!More generally:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_CaliforniaExcept for a narrow band along the Pacific coast and up north, all of California is a desert. We just keep trying to beat Mother Nature into submission by building housing north of LA in total high desert (out around Edwards Air Force Base - Lancaster, and Palmdale) plus some areas close in:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster,_CaliforniaI spent some time at Edwards back in the '70s.There's a reason that the Marine Corps uses 29 Palms as a practice area for Middle East engagements:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Air_Ground_Combat_Center_Twentynine_PalmsThis simply isn't the right environment for growing water intense crops.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:32:52 pm
content: Quotethere is a difference between unwilling to produce and unable to produce. Sure, the US and Canada can grow garlic, but they don't (on a massive scale) in a global economy via their own choice.Each and everyone of us does the same thing as well. You could have become a farmer, a janitor, an actor, or a politician. But you decided that you want to be something else, because that suits you best, or it maximizes your return on your (human) capital / investment.That's different from your unable to be a Michael Jordan, or an Albert Eistein, or an Usain Bolt, etc. - i'm guessing here.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:35:57 pm
content: QuoteBy that statement, you clearly don't know what "right to work" is, in spite of your claim to the contrary.QuoteSo farming is affecting weather?I can understand farming causing water shortage but farming causing drought?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 08:32:52 pmActually, California is a huge producer of garlic. The town of Gilroy, a bit south of San Jose, claims to be the garlic capital of the world.http://www.seecalifornia.com/farms/california-garlic.htmlQuote

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:49:16 pm
content: Quotegeorgia too.But the essence of the example is still valid.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 08:49:27 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 08:35:57 pmActually, he is spot on with how 'right to work' really works. It completely locks out unions and gives free reign to employers. Whether there are state protections for employees is a separate issue.http://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-right-to-work-laws.htmlQuoteNo, probably not and I don't think anybody is claiming that it does. But when 80% of the allocable water is not available for human consumption, and we don't have a lot of rain, then we have a drought. We get our water almost exclusively from the South Pacific by way of the Pineapple Express. If weather conditions don't permit, there is less water brought north. Then there is the matter of where it falls. Water falling in Alaska, Washington or Oregon doesn't really help California all that much. We need water in the form of snow and vast quantities of it.QuoteYin or yang? There wouldn't be a drought if there were enough water and there would be enough water if 80% of it wasn't wasted on agriculture.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:06:20 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 21, 2016, 08:29:44 pmYes, the "fair, victim, free, minority, feminist, united, values" people against the de-facto working class who is brutally forced to pay for all that.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:08:41 pm
content: QuoteWhat does that mean?

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 09:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on August 21, 2016, 06:17:19 pmI can't say much about AUS, but in NZ, this is really the standard. Maybe it's better in new modern houses?People need to correct me, but as far as i know metal is not allowded in NL. All high grade plastic, probably with glassfibres in it. The modern fuse boxes are very nice for the eye!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:00:22 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 09:08:41 pmIt means what the quoted definition says. In those states with Right To Work laws, empoyees can not be forced to join a union, they have a Right to Work. That doesn't mean that employees can't form, or belong to, a union but they can't be forced to join. Thus a shop may have union members and non-union.Since membership can[t be required in Right To Work states, unions aren't common. I suppose they aren't actually 'locked out' but they might as well be. The workers most in need of union protection are the least likely to afford the dues.When i worked in the shop back in '69-'73 here in California, it was a closed shop. Union membership, and paying union dues, was required as a condition of employment. But California wasn't then, nor is it now, a Right to Work state.,

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:41:25 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 21, 2016, 08:29:44 pmThis discussion is progressing too slow, let's take it to the next level: NAZIS!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:56:59 pm
content: QuoteSounds like that's the opposite of locking out the unions.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:25:23 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on August 21, 2016, 12:29:01 pmThe subject of this thread is things in America that foreigners might find surprising. Your "point at issue" is a hobbyhorse for you only. Disrupting discussions that way is the badge of a crashing bore.QuoteIt's really not complicated.Take a look at which states and cities have done this.Then study the voter registration data for each of them. In New York City, for example, registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by more than 6:1. In Cambridge, Massachusetts, the ratio is nearly 10:1. This interrelationship holds across the board.But fundamentally, you seem to be questioning not the accuracy of the statement, but rather the temerity of anyone to actually recognize any such differences.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:39:30 pm
content: An important thing to note about the US is that it covers a massive area comprised of many states and, especially in coastal areas, many cultures. As a result, there is a lot of variation. In a way, you can think of the US like the EU. Making generalizations about the country is rather difficult and usually inaccurate.Since most things have been covered, I'll just add a few tidbits, below.Quote from: Falcon69 on August 21, 2016, 03:24:44 pmDepending on the location and store, plastic bags, paper bags without handles, and/or paper bags with handles may be available. In areas where bags are controlled or banned, some types may be unavailable or no longer available for free -- bring your own (as may be standard procedure in other countries) or buy disposable/recyclable ones for a nominal fee. Some stores also sell reusable shopping bags.QuoteI haven't seen the intentionally inverted outlet before. Nifty.QuoteDepending on the location, Starbucks might be considered rather ordinary nowadays. Many other specialty coffee businesses have popped up since, both large and small.QuoteIn addition to gigantic portions at various fast food restaurants, there are also ones that offer unlimited soft drink (soda) refills.(Just in case you didn't get enough sugar on the first go.)The odd thing is that you can pay more for larger cups of unlimited soda refills.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:49:55 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on August 21, 2016, 02:31:05 pmLike this?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:15:16 am
content: QuoteYes, I flew to New Jersey a few years ago and stayed there a few days on business. Basically, nobody walks anywhere... it was amazing. The only person I ever saw walking was a scruffy bloke who was walking up and down the lines of cars waiting at the traffic lights at a junction. He was trying to 'sell' a very wilted bunch of flowers to the car drivers. It was quite scary because I guess he was really trying to do a snatch and run if anyone opened a window to him. We got lost and ended up in a dodgy area and this is where we saw him. Luckily we were able to drive away before he got to our car.Everywhere was a drive in or a drive through. There was even a drive through pharmacy! I have to say it was a horrible place devoid of any character and it seemed to be an endless grid of identical shopping malls. I think I would much prefer the west coast of the USA

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:33:06 am
content: The other crazy thing was the local TV network. The first time I went to the states was to Manhattan NY in 1998 and the TV was just intolerable. I tried to watch it several times. I tried hopping across all the channels but it was the same crazy hyped up mix of local news and adverts that repeated itself at an annoying rate. How anyone can watch that crap is beyond me. It must be what the locals want because all the channels were the same crazy mix. I think you could use it as an instrument of torture if you locked someone in a room with the TV running all the time. Giving the victim a channel hopping remote would just make it worse for them...When I went to NJ the last time I didn't turn the TV on in the hotel room for the whole week I was there

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:45:30 am
content: 4 pages and I don't think anybody has mentioned the single most aggregious ignorant thing in the US, and Canada was also infected by this horrible disease too I understand...Their light switches go UP for ON.WTF guys, UP, for ON?!That's just wrong.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:46:25 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on August 22, 2016, 12:15:16 amDrive trough churches, licor shops, etc, etc, then imagine US without petrol/disel!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:58:31 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 21, 2016, 02:58:44 pmI am lucky, I bought about a dozen of these at Costco for what I think was $4 each. They do not sell them anymore, but I hope they will when plastic bags are outlawed in Calif.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:03:54 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on August 22, 2016, 12:15:16 amSometimes you can't walk, because there is no sidewalk. I remember trying to clamber across the front lots of various businesses to get from our hotel to a restaurant three lots up the street. (It was a divided highway, so to drive there you would have to have turned right, gone a block, done a U-turn, gone back a block, done another U-turn, and then turned into the restaurant.)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:06:59 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on August 21, 2016, 11:39:30 pmI have--in my house. When I replaced them with new ones I put the upside down ones the right way up because I didn't like them to look untidy. If I sell the house I will stick a "switched" label on the switched ones.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:08:04 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on August 22, 2016, 12:45:30 amI disagree to a certain extent.From a safety perspective it makes more sense to switch down for off.In an emergency it is easier to fall down on the switch than try to push it up as you are falling.Just MTCW...

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:25:22 am
content: If you use 2 switches to control one light, sometimes up is off and sometimes up is on.Americans are adaptable. Little things like this do not affect us. In fact, I have never heard anyone complain about it.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:28:29 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on August 22, 2016, 12:45:30 amI think this is because you are on the bottom half of the world, ie you are really upside down so it affects your brain. I bet toilet water goes the wrong way for you.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:29:29 am
content: All switches that turn something on or off should have the up position as "on". Most of my equipment has push buttons for power, but the few that use up/down switches do it correctly. The worst thing is when something has a power switch that operate side to side. That is completely unacceptable.No way could I tolerate upside down wall outlets. I would have to fix them right away.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:37:18 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 22, 2016, 01:28:29 amI'm not in the habit of observing toilet water, I'll leave that to the Germans and their poo-shelf facilities.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 02:07:03 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 22, 2016, 01:29:29 amIn fact, an electrical code requirement, with the exception of 3-way and 4-way switch setups.In some houses, the original setup was to split a duplex receptacle, and switch one half of it (for use with a table lamp), and have the other half hot at all times. Over the years, and a few receptacle replacements/rewiring, these installations often result in those mysterious light switches on the walls of old houses, that don't appear to actually do anything....

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 02:13:15 am
content: Quote from: boffin on August 21, 2016, 08:14:09 pmIt isn't the healthcare system, it is the demographics. You can bet that infant mortality is a problem for the crack using folks, not the middle class non-drug-using population. Same story with life expectancy: We have a huge problem with diabetes (partly from eating habits described above) and this does nothing to improve life expectancy. It turns out that even diabetes afflicts the less well off more than the more economically advantaged.It's hard to get a definitive breakdown about negative outcomes versus race. It would not be politically correct to talk about this.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 02:53:05 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 08:35:57 pmIf you can put down your Ayn Rand fap material for a few minutes:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:34:12 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 21, 2016, 11:25:23 pmThe basic problem for non-USA folk is that your characterisation of Democrats as "leftists" strikes us as ludicrous.Both them & the Republicans are well to the right of manyconservativepolitical parties in other countries.In horrible, "Socialist" Australia,some States have banned plastic bags.( No correlation to "Right wing"or "Leftist"governments.)Even in the other ones many companies (yeah,real capitalist companies) have banned plastic bags,others still provide them for a fee,whereas still others provide them free,but try to encourage people to buy the re-useable bags,which they sell.Business doesn't seem to see it as any great hardship,either way.Bunnings Hardware have a big pile of cardboard boxes,so are harking back to when I was a kid.In those days,shops supplied cardboard boxes,or we brought shopping bags.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:45:41 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 22, 2016, 02:13:15 amNope, not the demographics. We're making comparisons against countries with lower median income, and countries with much higher concentrations of foreign born residents. You've nailed exactly the problem; that citizens of the United States try and make excuses for the poor showing, rather than solve the root problem.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:57:14 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 21, 2016, 12:13:10 pmI'd argue exactly the meaning of Freedom, but I'm too busy with my online (real money) poker game, while eating a Kinder Egg.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 06:16:14 am
content: In my country:->Do grocery stores really provide paper bags without handles, instead of plastic bags, like on television?Yes, most of the time. Recently there are only bio-plastic ones availableAre light switches connected to table lamps and other floor lamps?-> No. We don't really like floor lamps, anyone I know has bulbs on the ceiling.Are fresh fruit and vegetables expensive?-> Yes. Most of the markets sells apples at 1.50 Eur/Kg, and it's surprisingly expansive considered the things are almost imported. Italian stuff goes to the export industry most of the time. Actually from the currency switch from LIT/EUR vegetable price has gone up in price from 20% to 30%->What the hell is "cheese in a can" / aerosol cheese?! Do people really eat that stuff?No, and it's quite disgusting. If you want cheese you can go to your local supermarket: there are surely more than 10 variety of cheese over there, but the best are the ones produced on the local farms: they are more than an order of magnitude better than the average supermarket ones... Actually, you cannot eat it more than 50g (better say 25g) of that otherwise you will start going on high temperature...->Do you guys have proper coffee from espresso machines or is it just instant/pot coffee?Espresso machines are the norm at the working places, but pepole want to go to a bar and buy a coffee there if they can... Actually expresso is not the only type of coffee you may want: there are a lot more...Is high fructose corn syrup really a common thing that's used in processed food?-> Not really. Uh, I don't know what it is...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 07:05:10 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 21, 2016, 09:10:31 amFrom So Calif perspectiveDo grocery stores in America really provide paper bags without handles, instead of plastic bags, like on television?- from Costco no bags at all = from others plastic bags (for now) - some stores it is an option to get paper with handles (never seen them without), but not many stores. TV would get "prop" bags and those would not have handles, so NO.Are light switches connected to table lamps and other floor lamps?- as others have said some places yes some no. If there is then it is to control one outlet of a dual outlet. My place is too old to have these. Nice to have, so YESAre fresh fruit and vegetables expensive?- Real food rots. I have watched Costco tomatoes sit on my counter for 2 months. So real food costs more than non real food.I buy at Mexican markets and look for food from Mexico because it rots faster than US food.So no answer because "fresh fruit" means nothing, a "fresh" tomato can last 2 months on a counter, a Mexican can rot in one week. Which is fresher the one with cobalt or without?What the hell is "cheese in a can" / aerosol cheese?! Do people really eat that stuff?- it does not break crackers, very convenient. Don't knock it unless you try it, so YES. Go buy a can.Do you guys have proper coffee from espresso machines or is it just instant/pot coffee?- they are not expensivehttps://www.amazon.com/Mr-Coffee-Espresso-Frother-ECM160/dp/B000U6BSI2/ref=sr_1_2?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1471847785&sr=1-2&keywords=expresso+makerbut I got tired of mine and now use thishttps://www.amazon.com/Mr-Coffee-4-Cup-Switch-Coffeemaker/dp/B001KBZ95Y/ref=sr_1_7?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1471847849&sr=1-7&keywords=mr+coffeeSo YESIs high fructose corn syrup really a common thing that's used in processed food?- this is a political question. It came about from fu&^ing corrupt politicians.So every time you use this, you indirectly contribute to political corruption by making it work for them. So YES, the politicians (and their pockets) won.Are the beverages at fast food outlets (McDonalds etc...) really "super sized" compared to other parts of the world (e.g: in Australia, a "large" drink at McDonalds is about 600ml -- including a pre-measured portion of ice.) I know McDonalds here used to have "super sized" cups but they were discontinued around 2009-ish.- never did a comparisonCan people really get "fired" from their jobs for no apparent reason?- been answered so YES

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 09:46:05 am
content: I'll just leave this here....

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:09:35 am
content: From a bystanders point of view, America saved your parents or grand parents from a slaughtering by the Nazis, helped you build your countries back, defended you against the red army, make accessible to your her technology and her countries, ...And all you could do is to belittle her? Doesn't sound particularly gracious, does it?You should probably grow up a little and learn to respect things and people that you don't understand.Or you deserve to live under the rules of the Nazis or the USSR.Because that's precisely what they did.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:12:26 am
content: "I'll just leave this here"What would be a US vs EU comparison looking like?Or a metal per capita comparison?Serbia and Italy were quite impressive.On that note, what would an imaginary Yugoslavia look like in the metal count department?

author: Srbel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:22:26 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 21, 2016, 10:38:15 amNot something to be bragging about...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:30:58 am
content: Ouch... OK, obviously this thread has got out of hand :-P This was not my intention.To be fair, I'm sure there are generalisations about Australia which people believe to be true. Kangaroos jumping around everywhere is actually one of them. I work in Western Sydney and actually come across the odd Roo on the side of the road driving to work. If you go out to Lithgow, they hang around your front yard. Cute as hell, but also very tasty, low in fat, high in protein and iron.One issue I have is the way Americans or the British imitate the Australian accent. It's actually quite neutral (unless you're a derro or bogan).

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:34:35 am
content: Quote from: george graves on August 22, 2016, 09:46:05 amThat's nothing to be proud of!The US only got the most medals because it has such a large population.A more fair comparison is medals per capita and the US did poorly compared to other countries with a smaller population.Take the sum of the top European countries in the table, GB, Germany and France, a combined population of nearly 211 million:Gold: 45Silver: 41Bronze: 40Compared to the US, with a combined population of nearly 319 million.Gold: 37Silver: 34Bronze 32Pretty poor, compared to Europe.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:42:01 am
content: "Pretty poor, compared to Europe."Jamaica got 5 golds and 7 total, for a population of 2.Does Europe do poorly vs that?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:49:41 am
content: "Take the sum of the top European countries in the table, GB, Germany and France, "What country would be that? The great franmany? Or the great germance?You are making a comparison between a real country vs a fictional one. If that, we might as well compare the great germance vs the united States of phelps, or the united States of bolt, ....Apples and oranges.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 10:55:37 am
content: Who cares? It's just sports?

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:05:03 am
content: re the switch 'up for on' issue, ALL safety switches are push IN for OFF as opposed to almost all push button power switches I have met. Clearly 'safety' is not a major determinant of switch positioning.Can't stand the Olympics, so bad for community sport.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 11:10:54 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 22, 2016, 10:09:35 amThat's ancient history. If it wasn't for the Europeans who colonised the US in the first place, it would still be an undeveloped country, like most of Africa.Most of the people who saved our ancestors from the Nazis and USSR are now dead. We don't owe the current US population anything!You also conveniently forget to mention the mess made by the US in the Middle East and those who have been tortured at the hands of the US!

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 22, 2016, 11:10:54 amIt literally scares me that people like Dannyf are such extreme fans of what they call ´freedom´ while all that extreme form of ´freedom´ (= extreme capitalism) does is allow corporations to exploit people, exploit the earth, make as unhealthy food as possible because that is the cheapest and invade your privacy s much as possible because that way we can live as lazy as possible.No one in the EU wants to live in a regime like North Korea or the former USSR and the fact that u are mentioning that at all implies you have a very narrow vision that, unfortunately seems to be very common in brainwashed Trumpanised Murrica these days....What on earth could be wrong in trying to let the government take care of basic human needs/rights like good food, good healthcare at a price that it is affordable for at least everyone with a full time job? Not everyone is born with a good mind that makes them capable of making the best decisions for themselves in life and in the current extreme capitalist systems all over the world this makes it very very easy for big corporations to exploit peaple and just pump them full with unhealthy food an sell them bad products just so they can make a little bit more money? What good does that do to humanity?Of course people still need to have the right to make 'bad' choices if they want to but like someone already said the current system is a big system full of smoke and mirrors solemnly put up so big corporations can make more money. Why not try to care a little bit more about people and the environment as well?

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 22, 2016, 10:09:35 amDannyf, I've been biting my tongue, buy hey I'll say it, you're an arrogant and ignorant kid, you talk as if you knew everything and as if your opinion and beliefs were at the center of the Universe, typical of spoiled boys, making pretty strong comments about our history, you know nothing, you're just a slave living in an empire of lies, like Truman in the Truman Show, but you just don't know it. You live in a blissful ignorance and yet make gratuitous comments as if you were a historian or a thinker. Are you even aware of how many German engineers, labs, fabs your country stole after ww2?? Are you aware of the extraordinary support that Spain gave in your War of Independence, that led an Spanish general to march right next to G.Washignton on the 4th of July??I've known and discussed about a variety of topics with many US citizens but the level of your idiotic and uncalled for comments should make you embarrassed.As a kind and friendly suggestion, get a passport and travel a little bit, maybe then you'll learn something

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:09:14 pmChicken poison scandal, pork globalisation causing continentwide epidemies, farmers being expelled out of central europe,...Independent food growers bing labeled/taxed out unless they become big enough to go lobbying...Quote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:09:14 pmWaiting rows for handicaped children, garbage style care for older peolpe, basic service costs 3K/month in my region, after a life of giving 2/3 of the income to the "fair" onesQuote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:09:14 pmThis is exactly what the globalists bigstate 4th reich EU does for some decades now, powered by communists(green), leftists(socialists) and centerleftists(liberals and de-facto every catholic party here).Capitalism as I understand is banning globalism so the middleclass isn't forced in those multinationals with their regressive unions.

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:22:48 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 22, 2016, 12:19:13 pmI am not saying "we" are perfect am I?But at least we have some social safety net in place

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:22:48 pmThe hammock. Known for being an excellent system for the chronical sick, misused now by everyone who succeeds to end up in a "victim" minority group.But with only healthcare filtered out, it seems better than the USA system. But I want to see the de-facto difference what I have to pay here(what is taken from me without choice, when needed enforced with weapons), and what kind of Healthcare I can choose from for that in USA. And witch details of assumptions are different.

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 12:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 22, 2016, 12:25:36 pmI agree, the group of people who seem to think they are the victim of "something" or the people that simply choose a profession that isn't needed at all (the amount of art majors and fresh out of school social workers scares me) and have to rely on government support is to damn high....But hey, I am proud that my government at least tries to get me to live healthy and tries to implement laws that make sure my food/electrical products/work environment/living environment is safe without me having to do a complete study on it/them before I eating/using it.A lot of it is flawed and needs (a lot of) improvement but the media (most of them at least) are objective and try to paint u a balanced and honest picture of the situation so u can at least vote on a political party that focuses on the 'real' issues. Try watching american television in that regard......But overall: we humans are stupid and only care about ourselves and what is most beneficial to us (= me) in our short lifespans....

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 01:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:36:59 pmIndeed, they do. It's not perfect, but at least there's something.Quote from: DutchGert on August 22, 2016, 12:36:59 pmIndeed, and also their changed position in society/economy scares me.Before, they could go smoke weed, have fun and be lazy for 3 years on govt subsidies, but after that go cleaning or flipping burgers, completely harmless to the ones who contribute to progress.Now those same retards run entire multimillion-subsidized invasion centres, and decide what happens with our energy plants and transportation system.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 03:15:30 pm
content: "We don't owe the current US population anything"That's why Trump is right about dismantling NATO: let the Europeans fend for themselves against Putin, erdogan and the army he is sending over.Good luck.

author: DutchGert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 03:32:28 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 22, 2016, 03:15:30 pmWell if we do owe the current US population something we could say the same: without Europeans 'discovering' America the USA would be a big underdeveloped piece of land most likely........How far back do we need to go?The idea behind NATO is world piece at its core, not "we owe you so we help you" or "we are superior so from the kindness of our hearths we will help you (what you are suggesting)"And besides, I don't get your 'hate' or your sense of superiority. We are not saying we are perfect, we are just pointing out things that from the outside (=fresh perspective/set of eyes, good thing in engineering so why not here?) seem a bit weird. Why do you (and people in general) have to be so defensive about a piece of land on a map with some random lines drawn on it in which they are (out of pure coincidence) born?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:18:26 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on August 22, 2016, 10:09:35 amIt's like teenager kids, they feel safe enough to 'rebel' but when they get in trouble they call the parents to bail them out.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 22, 2016, 04:18:26 pmMaybe we got a big head

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2016, 04:32:00 pm
content: "when they get in trouble they call the parents to bail them out."That's where the US' fault comes in: if they love their utopia so much, they should die in their utopia, especially for being so ungracious.Maybe president Trump can sell them some weapons systems, at a huge mark up for their ungraciousness and naviety?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2016, 03:10:40 am
content: Once again, proof positive that threads on politics and other such topics will go nowhere fast. Another thread locked.