Hookup Wire for soldering - PVC vs Irradiated PVC vs PTFE vs Fluroplastic? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: victorhooi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 05:39:42 am
content: I'm looking to build some DIY lightsabers as kid's project, using the open-sourceProffieboard- It's basically a long (70-80cm) double-sided LED strip, with an accelerometer, 18650 Li battery, on/off switch, and the aforementioned Proffieboard PCB:This is mostly to keep the little ones entertained/distracted and myself sane.I'd love to get some advice on the wire selection though, as I'm a bit stuck here.Previously, I've just been using basic PVC hookup wire for electronics/LED projects - e.g. AlphaWire 3055:However, reading in the DIY Lightsaber community, a lot of people say you should to use PTFE (Teflon) insulated wire for lightsaber builds, for the higher temperature resistance (compared to PVC/silicone wire), and thinner insulation. (e.g.lightsaber wire kit).Using PTFE wire with thinner insulation I understand - I assume it's easier to route through the lightsaber hilt/chassis.However, I'm confused about why you'd need the temperature resistance - surely you wouldn't expect a toy LED lightsaber to get too hot for PVC wiring?Or is it maybe for during initial soldering, and you don't want shrink-back of the insulation in case the soldering iron touches it?(I did seethis articleabout irradiated PVC. My soldering is so-so, but I've found that if I strip back the wire, and don't let the soldering iron dwell too long on the wire, the PVC insulation doesn't really melt or even get hot).Checking AlphaWire, they do have Irradiated PVC options:And a PTFE (Teflon) option:And also a Fluroplastic option, their ThermoThin range, which is meant to be even thinner-insulation than PTFE (although it's only available in a 600V variant):Quote(Source:)And of course, there's a significant price delta going to irradiated PVC, then PTFE, then PFA (Fluroplastic) - and I'm trying to work out if it's worth it.For the lightsaber build, you need 22 AWG for power to the LED strips, and a few other places, then 28 or 30 AWG for everything else.Using black 22 AWG as a guide, I looked up the parts on Digikey, and made a quick comparison table (https://www.digikey.com.au/short/238q8280):Part NumberVoltage RatingStrandingJacket MaterialJacket DiameterJacket ThicknessPrice per 30m spool (USD)3051300V7/30PVC1.570.41$51.467055150V7/30Irradiated PVC1.270.25$75.852845/7250V7/30PTFE1.070.15$168.222622 (Thermothin)600V19/30PFA (Fluroplastic)1.550.18$269.15Question 1 - The standard PVC and irradiated PVC both have an upper temperature limit of 105°C - but the irradiated PVC is more resistant to soldering iron damage. How does that work?Question 2 - What do you think about PVC vs Irradiated PVC vs PTFE vs PFA - both for this application, and just as a general supply in the workshop? What would you buy yourself?

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 06:28:49 am
content: Wow, so much effort spent on wire selection.Though my knowledge is not 100% knowledge backed, I have some experience over the years.1. the problem with PVC at high temperature is not only the softening of the insulation, the plasticiser also tends to evaporate making the PVC hard and brittle.So maybe the irradiated PVC is short term temperature stable but still suffers from long time exposure.We have Radox cables at work, which is not PVC but radiated, and this is rather stiff insulation, not so flexible as one is used to.2. Teflon insulated cables are difficult to strip without the right tool, a standard stripper will fail.For standard applications I wouldn‘t bother and keep to standard cables.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 09:03:02 am
content: "Fluoroplastic" is not well defined and I didn't try to look it up. Several years ago, I switched to PVDF (polyvinylidene fluoride, aka Kynar) insulation. It is more slippery than PVC but not difficult to strip with strippers that cut into the insulation. UL1422 and UL1423 for silver plated copper (and maybe others) are associated with it. It is thinner than PVC and handles soldering temperatures well without charing or melting back.It sees to be available most often as 30 awg wire wrapping wire. I find that gauge a bit too thin for easy handling and have been using 24 awg from OK Industries. My last purchase arrived yesterday, and unfortunately it appears OK Industries has been acquired by Jonard ("OK Jonard"). Insulation was a little thinner, transparent, and more shiny. I am hoping that something more like the original is available in small quantities. Allied Wire lists something that seems identical to the older OK Industries stuff. Diameter, including insulation, should be about 0.030".

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 10:23:43 am
content: One other aspect to consider: chlorine chemistry (PVC) is already nasty but can be handeled, those flourinated chemicals are of more concern, see e.g. PFAS contamination.I would limit that stuff to where it‘s really necessary.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 12:30:46 pm
content: Ever hear of PCB contamination (polychlorinated biphenyl)? Halogenated hydrocarbons are the problem, if it is really a problem.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 01:16:34 pm
content: I think that project is only powering a couple of 'neopixel' LEDs and a microcontroller with a little speaker (I cannot watch that crazy-long video to try to understand it more).It's a bit over-the-top to use an 18650 in such a child's toy, when the project could have been designed for a couple of AA or AAA cells instead. It might be worth adding a fuse or a polyfuse if the project does not already contain it, due to the very low internal resistance of 18650 cells.

author: victorhooi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 05:06:11 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on January 17, 2025, 01:16:34 pmActually, looking at the numbers, there looks to be a decent amount of power draw. TheV3 Pixel Stickhas 527 x SK6812 LEDs (5V I assume) for the 88cm blade.According tothis person's test, it pulls around 12.5A power in white mode (16,900 lumens) (62.5 watts power consumption)Either way - that's a decent amount of current draw - a quick Google shows AA cells as being up to 2A current? I doubt they could handle powering up the LEDs.That's an interesting point about the fuse - looking online, nobody seems otherwise mention needing/using a fuse - not sure why.Quote from: inse on January 17, 2025, 06:28:49 amInteresting - what is a standard stripper here? And what would you suggest for PTFE insulation?I'm just using a basicKnipex Precistrip 16- would that work? Or I should get something specific for stripping PTFE insulation?

author: inse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 05:26:33 am
content: I have a similar stripper and in general those adjustable or automatic ones with parallel blades do not work well for PTFE and PUR, too.You need a stripper with specific blades for the cable diameter.For example an Ideal Industries T-Stripper or even better something like this if you want to affordhttps://www.weidinger.eu/en/wl17669Btw, I‘m shocked by the laser saber current consumption, kind of different league than my kids used to play with.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 10:24:33 am
content: I just use a Jonard JIC-2030 bought at a big box store. Quality is so, so. I fine tuned the amount of closure to avoid nicking wire. It works fine for 24 awg PVDF(Kynar) insulation.