shocked on ebay: seller blocked me claiming PayPal is fraudulent and eBay is not - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 01:08:14 pm
content: So, I was looking for a spectrum analyzer on eBay and found a good one.Unfortunately abroad, expensive importing fees and shipping cost.I contacted the seller to have some more info ( and pic ), and he accepted to talk on WhatsApp.When we talked about the payment I offered PayPal and his reaction went immediately crazy like a deranded dog on speed with nothing but an exclusive ultimatum:- PayPal only with "friends or family"- eBay paymmentThe eBay paymment redirects me to PayPal, so I asked which is the difference?It's PayPal in both cases. Just, passing through eBay means more money for me.And he blocked me on WhatsApp and eBay with nothing but "PayPal is fraudulent, ebay is not".How did I pay for my new DSO?Rigol accepted Paypal. Was it fraudulent?How did I pay for my new CP400?Casio accepted PayPal. Was it fraudulent?Etc ...I don't think eBay offers more "protection"

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 01:14:42 pm
content: My guess is he's been scammed in the past by people just sending a normal PayPal transfer for goods and these are not associated with a transaction. You can send money under other than the friends/family moniker for goods but unless there's a precise description of goods, PayPal may not cover the seller's claim. eBay take a cut of the transaction fee in part to cover the liability to sellers from fraud. So it costs more because both buyer and seller get some protection (though definitely more in favour of the buyer)

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 01:18:37 pm
content: eBay offers an additional layer of protection/leverage if needed. But normally, it's the buyer that should be worried, not so much the seller. So, that's a bit odd. On the other hand: the world is full of wonderful new ways to rip people off so you can't really blame him for being cautious...

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 01:18:42 pm
content: eBay seller here.eBay moved to eBay payments a couple years ago for a lot of places.They still offer PayPal but the the transaction goes via eBay payments.PayPal has a history of being over protective of the buyer (more so than eBay) so a lot of sellers will only accept eBay payments now (even with eBays fees) as it is slightly more fair towards sellers.The seller has probably had a bad experience with PayPal so no longer accepts payments via them.PayPal also sometimes charges sellers if the buyer does a chargeback.PayPal is also the payment provider of choice for scammers...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 02:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 28, 2022, 01:14:42 pmThis! It is rather foolish to propose to a seller to do a transaction outside Ebay. That is straight from a scammer's playbook.If you want to make a better deal, figure out whether the seller is a company that is also setup to deal with customers directly. If yes, you can contact them through email or phone and propose to buy an item they have listed on Ebay directly. But again: you can't combine buying something from Ebay with the financial transaction bypassing Ebay.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 02:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: Jackster on November 28, 2022, 01:18:42 pmReally? As a seller you literally cannot refuse a return if buyer selects a return option where something is wrong on sellers part. And then just ship a box of bricks or some other waste.QuoteNot foolish at all, saves a lot in fees, especially if it's an occasional seller who does not pay for store subscription. On paypal as a seller you will at least will get some human interaction before scammed out of your money, and buyer will need to provide some proof of their claims. On ebay you will be scammed out of your money automatically.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 02:24:56 pm
content: Re: eBay and PayPalThey began together and are still joined at the hip, so to speak. Earlier this year, PayPal insisted on a mobile smart phone for 2FA, which I don't have and don't intend to buy just for PayPal. I closed PayPal and have been using a credit card since then. I was a little concerned but have not had any problems. I do not buy a lot off eBay as its prices are generally higher than I can get elsewhere, except for used items.So far, none of the other financial institutions/sellers (e.g., Amazon) with which I deal require a mobile smart phone. 2FA from my desktop is handled usually by a landline; although, one very small entity sends the code back to my PC. I guess that's not much worse than someone using a smartphone and getting the 2FA code back on the same device.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 02:26:18 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 28, 2022, 02:08:31 pmDoesn't make a difference.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 03:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on November 28, 2022, 02:26:18 pmHow it does not make a difference when ebay fee is 2-2.5 times lower for many categories (computers and parts in particular) with a store subscription.https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/store-selling-fees?id=4809scroll down for final value fees.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 10:14:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 28, 2022, 02:08:31 pmIts foolish if Ebay catches wind of this they can ban your account, and if you have pending payments you might be out hundreds or thousands of dollars.If you are 100% sure they won't find out, and contact was made via phone number or via this forum or something, its ok, but some still wouldn't bother.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 10:18:12 pm
content: Ebay strictly forbids doing deals outside of their system. If someone tried to get me to do this I would also assume they're trying to scam me and would refuse to deal with them. There are lots of scammers out there.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 02:18:19 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 28, 2022, 10:18:12 pmto me it seems a crazy reaction!eBay has the crazy rule you cannot give someone you phone-number to have a talk/clarification/more pics/details, and to do so, you have to pass you phone-number through a pic, which is just crazy sinc they monitor pics, and if they catch you ... your account will be banned.I bought a monocoque carbon bicycle frame (90ish) for 800 euro on eBay, very expensive considering I had to import it, the seller refused to have a talk on Whatsup/Skype, and as result ... I trusted eBay and got nothing but a cracked carbon frame, which I had to return to the seller wasting my time and money.So, I could say the same: there are lots of scammers-sellers out there on eBay, too!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 02:59:45 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 28, 2022, 02:24:56 pmWhat is 2FA? I have a mobile phone and it's not connected to E-bay or PayPal (and NEVER will be!). But less than five minutes ago I made a BIN purchase from Ebay and paid for it will PP and I didn't have any trouble with the transaction. I make from 2 to about 5 purchases per week on E-bay and pay for all of them with PP and I haven't had any problems doing so and I've been doing that since PP began.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:10:25 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 02:18:19 amIt's obvious why they do that, they take a cut of the transaction so they don't want people using their service for free and bypassing the cut they take. I don't like ebay either but doing that could arguably be called theft of services.I'm not sure what trusting ebay has to do with receiving a damaged bicycle. If you had bypassed ebay you might have been left holding the bag.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:12:33 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on November 29, 2022, 02:59:45 amYou'll start hearing 2FA (two factor authentication) a lot more. PayPal has always had different classes/thresholds/types of accounts behind the scenes so you may be in a low risk group/country/funding and not be required to use it. Its not always necessary to associate 2FA with a phone number or app, some accounts (including some PayPal accounts) can use 3rd party code generators:https://authy.com/guides/paypal/

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:33:53 am
content: Didn't ebay stop payment processing years ago in some countries, in favour of Paypal?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:39:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 29, 2022, 03:33:53 amIt flips back and forth, at one point they required every seller to offer PayPal (buyers "choice" but PayPal was so heavily defaulted/promoted that most sales went through it). They did own PayPal at one point..... now they don't own PayPal and have setup their own payment system which funnels the money though a single choke point to make it easier to extract the sellers fees (and slows down payments to sellers, and requires sellers to send packages before they have the money).Next year it'll probably be something different again!

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:59:39 am
content: Quote from: Someone on November 29, 2022, 03:39:04 amAND (at least here) require the seller to link a bank account to ebay. That is a big nono for me. I sell probably one thing a year and between the ever increasing fees, and the fees of a separate bank account if i want to keep thinks insualted, the fact that it doesn't let me use real prices for shipping but only their suggested ones (believe me i tried), i just don't want to bother. I'll run over the damn thing if i can't give it away. Or use other platforms, facebook marketplace has been much more effective.It's no wonder all (most) individuals selling used stuff have disappeared, in ebay europe at least, there are a tiny fraction of what used to be before ebay changed the payment scheme.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 08:17:48 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 28, 2022, 03:40:44 pmLet me rephrase: doesn't make a difference for me (selling T&M).

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 10:18:59 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 29, 2022, 03:10:25 amHow such a seller can have negative feedbacks *REMOVED* if he/she sells junk?What does eBay do about trust? You can't share any videos to check the quality of the product you're willing to buy, you can't request a face-to-face interview on Skype, you just have to "trust" their ridiculous feedback system, and I don't know how, but the seller cleaned up and it's not the first time I've seen this happen.I didn't go over eBay on that occasion, couldn't phone the seller as eBay blocks phone numbers(1), and at the end of the month I had nothing but more money down the drain than if I had dealt directly with the seller!(1) if you write it in a PM, the message is automatically deleted

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 10:31:03 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 29, 2022, 03:59:39 amYes, I noticed. Hope 2023 is better.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:34:28 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 10:18:59 amI had two independent bad experiences on ebay lately, buying two small parts from HongKong.Both parts were not what I had ordered and the sellers were not willing to discuss it.I told them, that I will leave negative feedback if they would not be willing to work with me.One seller replied: "I don't care, I will justdeletethe negative feedback"Well, I gave both sellers negative feedback with a good explanation of why.And in both accounts the negative feedback showed up right away.Well, the next day, both of my negative feedbacks were gone.WTFHow can they do this?I am missing the old eBay !

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:37:32 am
content: The days of good person-to-person sale platforms appear to be over. The commercial market has vastly outgrown private sales so that's where the money is now and what all the players concentrate on. And the auction sites that still bother with P2P appear to have realized that feedback systems and punishing dishonest sellers reduce the amount of sales (no shit, sherlock) and this is their official excuse for reducing or castrating feedback. Basically, they are becoming scammer's paradise to increase their traffic and commissions. And if you don't like being scammed, remember that you can always buy from commercial sellers, at even higher price and higher commission to the auction site.In Poland we have an old eBay clone called Allegro, which is doing everything to push private sales onto a separate sub-site that they started, where there is no feedback at all, by design. If you don't like what you receive, you can try their customer protection, which takes days of back-and-forth with the seller and their employees trying to work out what has happened and who is scamming whom, and if your evidence is convincing enough they will pressure the seller to make things right for you and occasionally refund you right away in cases of obvious scam. But as long as the seller cooperates and grudgingly accepts a return, they consider it a success and he can continue to list the same rubbish and look for new suckers who will consider the process too much waste of their time. Negative feedback? Forget it. "It discourages buyers, reduces sales, unduly punishes sellers, blah blah blah."Even better is a classifieds site, OLX, which recently realized that there is more money in sales by mail than in person, so they try to promote themselves as such a site by offering escrow service. Looks fine until you read the fine print: they only cover sellers failing to deliver the item at all, if the item is damaged it's not their problem. They won't even tell you who it is that you are buying from. You go to the police, have them request the identity of the seller from OLX, then go after the asshole.Fuck beancounters, man.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:43:36 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 29, 2022, 11:34:28 amThat was a mistake. Threatening with negative feedback is a reason for its removal according to ebay policy.https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-policies/feedback-extortion-policy?id=4230On other hand, sellers could do nothing if you requested a return with not as described as a reason. They would even be required to pay return shipping cost.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:44:43 am
content: "feedback extortion"Yeah, another good excuseQuote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 10:31:03 amI expect 100% the opposite. Ever since the proliferation of Internet-enabled smartphones, everything on the Internet is getting worse and the trend will continue for a foreseeable future until it really can't possibly get worse. I can't even imagine what the end will be

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:48:36 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 29, 2022, 11:34:28 amExactly what happened to me!Sorry to hear it happened to you.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:27:01 pm
content: This is a second scam on ebay.Look at the description, Grade A? Like new?Received a damage one, say Grade D?Packaged into a bagI have described exactly what happened in my feedback.No insults, only details.Not as described.Not grade A.Several scratches.Improperly packaged...."your feedback comment has been removed by eBay"For no reason specified.This way it sucks, frankly!

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:32:02 pm
content: Well, in all fairness, I never threaten to leave neg fb.I just do it when it becomes clear I'm not getting anything more from the seller

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:34:59 pm
content: That's exactly what I did!Today I received your parcel, the item is not as you described, can you solve it?No!Ok, negative feedback and let eBay solve it.5 days later, your negative feedback comment has been removed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:11:47 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 03:34:59 pmIn such cases you open a case and let Ebay deal with it. I received some fake chips as well and got a refund after opening a case. When something is wrong, I always open a case with Ebay.Although I have to say that I rarely use Ebay for buying stuff from China nowadays. Aliexpress is cheaper and if I need it fast, I buy from Amazon. In both cases there is no hassle with paying VAT and customs processing fees.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:20:02 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 03:27:01 pmAgain, the problem was not in your feedback. But that you threatened seller to leave a negative feedback. I bet seller thought "yay" when reading that. If you opened a return case, seller would not be able to do anything about that. Ebay literally does not have an option to refuse a return if certain reason was selected by buyer. Seller can contact buyer but if buyer does not close the case and seller does not accept the return within a time limit, refund is issued automatically.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:41:54 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 29, 2022, 05:20:02 pmI didn't! I simly asked to solve the problem!And the seller didn't collaborate.So I left a negative feedback!Are you saying one should not communicate with the seller and instead open a claim on eBay?At least with Paypal you can try to solve things friendly before escalating to a formal claim!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:48:06 pm
content: I d like to sell some stuff on eBay.As seller, I wonder: what if the buyer opens a claim and sends back junk?Will I loose money and goods?Or will eBay protect me?Perhaps, I'd better use Facebook market to sell stuff.Talking about repaired rear derailleurs and bicycle parts.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:57:14 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 05:41:54 pmSorry, that was said by HighVoltage. As of now, opening a return request on ebay is not the same as claim/dispute. Regardless if seller agrees or not to take item back and/or refund the money, opening a return request is the way to do it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 06:01:46 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 29, 2022, 05:48:06 pmUnfortunately yes, that can happen. Ebay almost always sides with the buyer in a dispute. Personally I have not ever had that happen but it's always a possibility. It is one of several reasons I don't do international sales, it's much harder to go after somebody that screws you in a different country.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 09:41:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 29, 2022, 11:43:36 amDepends on the region and specifics of the sale, also the "better" scammers have found ways to even get around returns (the buyer is left without a product or the money, and the scammer has both)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 10:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 29, 2022, 03:59:39 amThere are a number of companies offering free no-fee bank accounts, for me I use prepaid mastercard "account", I'm sure Italy has similar services.But I agree, if its some household goods or a few sales a year, its not worth it.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 11:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 28, 2022, 01:08:14 pmAre direct credit card payments through eBay not available on eBay UK? For me on checkout eBay offer the choice of paying directly through eBay with CC, or via PayPal. The former has not involved PayPal for the past couple of years.Quote from: JPortici on November 29, 2022, 03:59:39 amWhat's the big deal of linking your bank account? The only thing they can do with it is a SEPA direct debit, which you can dispute with your bank within 8 weeks. It's even easier than disputing a credit card charge. And as already mentioned, there's a number of fintechs (e.g. N26, Revolut, OpenBank) offering free bank accounts if you do want to keep things separate.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2022, 12:21:17 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 29, 2022, 11:34:28 amDon't threaten the sellers with negative feedback, just open a claim for "item not as described" and in most cases ebay will refund you with minimal hassle.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2022, 09:40:13 am
content: Quote from: james_s on November 30, 2022, 12:21:17 amYou might be right, that my mentioning of negative feedback caused this removal of the negative feedback.However, normally in the past it said something like: "This comment was removed by ebay"In theses two cases, my negative comment just vanished.