Elecrow solder mask issue - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 09:47:12 pm
content: Elecrow might be cheap, but they have there issues. Had a PCB proto made by Oshpark, and was fine.Needed more PCB and tried out Elecrow.It took 3 weeks to get the first set of 10 PCB, but they had a problem with solder mask on top of the connector pads.Contacted them and explained the problem.After several for and back explaining the issue with picture (I think Enligsh is the problem for them), they send it in for another PCB run.Second set of 10 units finally arrive after 2 1/ 2 weeks and they had the exact same issue...If I was in any hurry I would give up at this point and ask for a refund, but being the nice guy I will give a one more change.Maybe they get it after 2 PCB runs and several pictures.Btw the gerber files are not the problem. Any suggestion on how to prevent this in Kicad?Thx.Any suggestion

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 10:05:08 pm
content: Load up the gerber files an an actual gerber viewer, like Viewmate. Kicad's gerber export is generally somewhat disastrous.Also, soldermask layers are generally negative, so no/wrong file means therer will be no apertures in the mask.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 10:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on June 08, 2015, 09:47:12 pmOsh may have seen a problem in your gebrs and fixed it without saying. Are your file names for the mask layer correct as per the fab's requirements?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 12:30:31 am
content: I had similar problem with one of my elecrow orders. The others were ok.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/silk-screen-on-exposed-pcb-pads/When I asked them, they say that it was an error on their part not to clip and offered to redo it for free but I didn't want to wait.Since then I make sure not to have silkscreen on exposed pads in the first place. Elecrow is now my favorite PCB vendors. They also make metal stencils for a reasonable fee and can ship DHL which arrives here in 48 hours.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 09:11:14 pm
content: Yes it was Kicad, the solder mask was over the connector pads and Oshpark must have corrected the problem without telling me.It shows fine inside Kicad but with an external gerber viewer it shows the problem. Lesson learned... don't trust free software.Thanks for the feedbacks.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2015, 09:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on June 09, 2015, 09:11:14 pmThat's the wrong conclusion

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 01:54:08 am
content: This is why I use advanced circuits. It costs a lot more, but you can shoot them an email and explain this stuff to them in English. Once they get the hang of how you do things they will even catch mistakes like that and email you about it and fix it for you if it is something obvious like that. If you can live without mask of screen their bare bones boards are fast and cheap.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 02:10:38 am
content: Quote from: Rutger on June 09, 2015, 09:11:14 pmIs there any chance you'd share the project with me or on thebug trackerso we can get this fixed? I've never seen anything like this, and it's a pretty serious problem if it is happening as you describe.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 04:42:48 am
content: it also looks on some of the board the holes are drilled too large.now, i am going to make a comment here , and probably will be flamed for it but, if a pcb cad program cannot output correct gerber its programmer(s) should be publicly tarred , feathered and prohibited from ever touching a computer again. That is simply inexcusable.image a text processor that randomly swaps words, letters and fonts ... inexcusable.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 04:44:45 am
content: I hope you do get flamed for it - how can you expect anything to be bug-free? Tons of people have had boards made from KiCad Gerbers without this issue. I've certainly never seen it myself. If it's not just a misunderstanding, it's certainly an uncommonly occurring bug.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 05:01:52 am
content: due diligence doesn't stop at the software or the instruments your are using.He should have checked the gerbers regardless if he was using Kicad or Cadence.Imagine a newspaper that didn't check and proof read the first couple of test prints before doing the full batch?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 05:43:11 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 10, 2015, 05:01:52 amRight. Gerber viewers exist for good reason. All sorts of funky stuff shows up on gerbers from any CAD/EDA package I've ever used.In general I would be far happier with what Elecrow have done (build what was asked for) than what the other supplier appears to have done (try to second guess what was really wanted). 9 times out of 10, when a fabricator makes assumptions they are bad ones. Of course, the preferred middle ground might be a fabricator who spots oddities and questions them before proceeding. However, that's awkward when people are in different time zones, and/or don't share a mother tongue.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 06:10:13 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on June 10, 2015, 05:01:52 amYip... the Nelson Mail... happens all the time...Sorry, off topic.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 06:18:49 am
content: I check all my altium Gerber's in gerbv, just to be safeNever found an issue with altium Gerber's though.But I will always check

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 07:24:33 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on June 10, 2015, 04:44:45 ami don't know of any text editor that, when the document is printed, alters the size and position of words.So why should i accept a cad program to do that ? Gerber is such an easy format , it is basically a vector drawing format. the board primitives are already in vector format. how hard can it be ?any program that cannot generate correct output , whether sending it to a printer , plotter, disk , optical medium ( display ) is useless.imagine a cad program with a bug where all circles are drawn with an offset on screen. that would not be acceptable, it would never be released. so why is it ok to release a pcb program that cannot generate accurate output ?if there is one thing that needs to be correct for a pcb program it is 100% accurate gerber representation of what was drawn. just like a printer should render 100% accurate sheets of paper to the data that was sent to it.now, if the fault lies with the drafter , that is a different story.

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 08:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 10, 2015, 07:24:33 pmNor do I, but how about a Xerox photocopier, with an eight year old software defect, that alters the text?http://www.dkriesel.com/en/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_are_switching_written_numbers_when_scanning

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 10:38:45 pm
content: Protel used to output erroneous gerbers

author: kingofkya
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2015, 11:01:37 pm
content: Yeah i think elecrow recently switched pcb vendors or at least what ever they use to batch pcbs together.I however thous two pic above really look like screw ups in the cad package output. That being said i used to be able to send those mistakes and elecrow would catch them since 6-8months ago they started fixing less stuff.Kicad has a few options that might need to be checked for that silkscreen over pads issue i think it says subtract silkscreen from copper or something like that. 2 years ago i know i had the same mistake but take a look at the pcb from that time it is indeed clipped. HArd to see i don't have a better pic handy.http://christmas.kneale.us/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php/wm2999productionpcb.jpg?id=wm2999But they quit putting thous random lot numbers on pcbs so thats an improvement i guess. I have also gotten some frankly severe missprints on my pcbs where the silkscreen ink looked like it gummed up or something in one spot and another were it just didn't print a component on a few boards.I honestly think there having growing pains as a company. Also in my experience mike and david at elecrow.com. both have fairy good English. I am not sure who mans the main email but theres definatly some miscommunication there often for service AT elecrow.com. Emails

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 06:20:19 am
content: I don't understand why anyone would use stuff like KiCad, geda, designspark or one of dozen other "ultra low end" tools.Got money and reason or don't give a shit about copyright? Use Altium. Otherwise use DipTrace. KiCad is not even remotely close to any usable PCB CAD software, and that's a fact.