Upgrade firmware ACARD SCSI to IDE bridge 3.77 to 1.77b  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 09:29:47 pm
content: Such a rather not typical problemI'm downloading a bin file from memoryIBM_ver 3_77i_AEC7722IR_ver2006_16bit.BIN(below as an attachment)As you can see there is every byte inserted in FFAnd now I have a fileslvd177b.binWhere there is no such insertAfter that, the file (newer version) is identical.Now, kind of a trivial question of how to make such an interleave I tried HexEditHxDand HexEditNeo but no ..... has such an option or is somehow hidden ....Who will help ... thanks ...File bin in to acard firmware ....THANKSWorking !Upgrade ACARD SCSI to IDE ATA Card AEC-7722IROrginal firmware 3.77 (for IBM RS server) (no working for PC ....)Modifity to version 1.77bAdd modifity file !Upgrade only external programmer !!!

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 09:36:52 pm
content: Orginal file ;02 00 d0 81 7c ff ff ff 02 0c 3c 02 15 07 ff ffMod file: (add FF every byte)02 FF 00 FF d0 FF 81 FF 7c FF ff FF ff FF ff FF 02 FF 0c FF 3c FF 02 FF 15 FF 07 FF ff FF ff(of course all bin file )

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 10:09:39 pm
content: That's exactly what Python is for. Here is a program, I have not tried it, but it should work.Code:fr = open('in.bin', 'rb')fw = open('out.bin', 'wb')try:byte = fr.read(1)while byte != '':fw.write(byte)fw.write(chr(0xff))byte = fr.read(1)finally:fr.close()fw.close()

author: cv007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 10:13:06 pm
content: ;http://www.rebol.com/downloads.html;REBOL/Core 2.7loop length? bin: read/binary %slvd177b.bin [ insert bin #{FF} bin: skip bin 2 ]write/binary %newfile.bin head bin

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2018, 11:35:42 pm
content: THANKSWorking !Upgrade ACARD SCSI to IDE ATA Card AEC-7722IROrginal firmware 3.77 (for IBM RS server)Modifity to version 1.77bAdd modifity file !Upgrade only external programmer !!!

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 01:57:23 pm
content: I have an AEC-7722IR adapter with an SST 39VF400A-70-4C EEPROM (TSOP-48). Could you let me know what utility you are using to re-flash the EEPROM while it is on the PCB? Thanks!

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 04:42:50 pm
content: It needs to be desoldered ... and use a programmer

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 05:19:59 pm
content: these bridges are very expensive nowadays, e.g. the WideSCSI to SATA bridge is priced something like 500 euro

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2019, 05:24:58 pm
content: I bought my bridge in the entire drive (external) for $20

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:16:11 am
content: Did your AEC-7722IR come with a TSOP-48 or a PLCC-32? Mine came with a TSOP-48, SST 39VF400A-4C flash rom chip. I noticed that the PCB had solder pads for a PLCC-32 chip, so I cut off the TSOP-48 with a razer blade and soldered on a PLCC-32 socket. I then used an external programmer to program the the PLCC-32 chip, an SST 39SF040-70-4C. Photos are provided of the programmer and ACARD adapter with flashes.I tried the AEC-7722 (non-IR) BIOS version 1.77A, as well as your modified 1.77A, and the original 7722IR BIOS v3.77b, however my SCSI host controller reports BadExtRom 16 and the unit doesn't function. Refer to photo.The main differences between the TSOP-48 and the PLCC-32 are that the TSOP-48 package is missing one A18 pin, adds pins DQ8-DQ15, and 8 NC pins.Is it required that I use the TSOP-48? And what external programmer are you using which will make contact with the leads of a TSOP-48 and not break them? My adapter only goes up to PLC-44. Perhaps there is one for TSOP-48? EDIT: OK, I think this is the adapter I need for the TSOP-48:http://www.weilei.com/TSOP48E.htm. Still, I'd like to get the PLCC-32 working. EDIT 2: Even with the adapter, the software for my programmer doesn't have support for SST39VF400A. It has only support for SST39VF800A. Aside from the 4 Mbit vs. 8 Mbit, the 800A chip has A18 on pin 16, while the 400A chip has NC on pin 16. Reminds me of the PLC-32 chip, which also contains A18.The keen eye will notice that I soldered the PLCC-32 socket on backwards. So the first time I installed the EEPROM chip, it smoked. I tossed out the fried EEPROM chip and cut away some of the socket so I could get a new EEPROM chip inserted correctly. The SCSI host controller shows ARC765E3, so I'm hoping that the ACARD chip is OK.The prices of these have gone up ridiculously. There was some seller in China selling them for $20 about 2 years ago. I forget the platform now, I think it was alibaba or aliexpress. I cannot seem to locate them for a reasonable price now.Any ideas on how I can get my unit working would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I cut the leads on the TSOP-48 EEPROM pretty short, so I doubt I can solder it back on. I'd prefer to get the PLCC-32 EEPROM working.Thanks!

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:17:00 am
content: Uhh. You replaced a 16 bit wide device with an 8 bit wide one. Not surprised it isn't happy about that.

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:31:28 am
content: Yes, but the 512Kx8 PLCC-32 flash chip chosen is the one I've seen on the AEC-7722. The 7722IR ACARD 765E chip is also the same chip as on the 7722. If you know of a 256Kx16 PLCC32 chip, please let me know the part number. I am having trouble finding one.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 08:38:00 am
content: ARC765 datasheet is probably unobtainable, so the next best thing would be detailed picture of working plcc fitted card for comparison, there will be a strap/jumper/resistor somewhere to switch flash configuration

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 09:56:27 am
content: Hi Rasz. Thanks for responding. There are a total of four reserved jumpers on the PCB, 2 grouped with the SCSI ID jumpers (JP2), and 2 grouped with the SE jumper (JP1). There is also what looks like solder pads for yet 2 more reserved jumpers (JP3). Perhaps one of these is the ticket to success?There are some high res. photos of the AEC-7722 with PLCC-32 here,https://www.ebay.com/itm/332981553745I've attached high-res photos of my AEC-7722IR unit here and edited to my previous post. By comparison of photos on that ebay listing and my unit, I see a few differences.Capacitors C10, C11, and C13 are located on the top of the PCB for AEC-7722, while on the AEC7722IR, they are on the bottom of the PCB. These 3 caps are the only components on the bottom of the PCB.On the 7722, C17 is on the top of the PCB, while on 7722IR, there is only a solder pad C17 on the bottom of the PCB.On the 7722, there exists a resistor R14, which is vacant on the 7722IR unit. It is difficult to say with absolute certainly from the eBay photo, but it looks like it has "158" on it, so 1500 M-ohm. That 8 may be a 0, in which case, 15 ohms.On the 7722, near JP2, R7, R9, and R10 say "222", so 2.2k. On the 7722IR, rather than individual resistors, there is a 3-pack resistor network (RN1) with "0" on them, so shorted. In the same region, R16 on the 7722 has solder pads for a resistor, while the 7722IR has a 2.2k resistor in the form of another 3-pack resistor network, RN2. R17 is the same on both units, however R13 on the 7722 look to be 300 ohms, while it is 2.2k on the 7722IR (in the form of RN2).R4 on 7722 has "562" printed on it (5.6k), while on the 7722IR, it is "295", or 2.9 M-ohm.R15 on the 7722, I cannot read. Perhaps "801" or "103". Maybe somebody with one of these units can verify, but on the 7722IR, the resistor says "0", so shorted.I can probably make all these changes, but would need clarification on R14 and R15.So what do you think the next best course of action is? Is there a better, perhaps more diagnostic method, to determine the PCB mod required for using the PLCC-32?

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:01:44 am
content: In what mode you uploaded the firmware ?Wellon uploads by default in 8bit modeIt should be in 16 bit!

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:06:56 am
content: and SST39VF400A (oryginal flash ?) is x1639SF040 x8 ...

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:21:15 am
content: I'm aware that 39SF040 is 8-bit. What else do you think the solder pads are for if not 39SF040? I cannot find any x16 1, 2, or 4 Mbit EEPROM flash chips in PLCC-32. Can you? Perhaps someone with an AEC-7722 can remove the ACARD sticker and report the flash part number?I was also going to ask you - after you upgraded to to BIOS 1.77b, were you able to use IDE hard drives on the adapter?

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:26:53 am
content: Quote from: max-bit on January 03, 2019, 10:01:44 amWhat option should I select when loading the ROM? See screenshot.

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:30:58 am
content: Inside is ACARD -eBay auction: #142936156220The memory must be in the x16 organizationI have not tested on hard drives.In general, the adapter only works on windows XP, on windows 7 it does not work properly anymore

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:41:03 am
content: but let me understand: why do you need to update the firmware?which is the problem exactly?

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:51:32 am
content: The matter is simple, you had to program the original IC and not combine ...

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 01:53:26 pm
content: I tested all the connections of the TSOP-48 traces to that of the PLCC-32 traces. All pins are connected to their corresponding assignments. A15-A18 and CE# are grounded on both. The extra pins on the TSOP-48 package, DQ8-DQ15, are not connected on either. The interesting thing is that EEPROM power, VDD, is not connected to 5 V, but is instead is connected directly to a pin on the ACARD chip. The PLCC-32 VDD pad, on the other hand, connects to 5 V.I was able to make some progress. It seems one of the contacts on the PLCC-32 socket wasn't making good contact with the EEPROM. I've pulled out the fittings a bit and now I'm able to detect my IDE CD-ROM drive with the host adapter. Unfortunately, all is not well as the DOS SCSI CD-ROM drivers wouldn't load. See photos. But at least I am no longer getting BadExtRom.I am using BIOS version 1.77A.The 3.77I BIOS provided by the original poster yielded "BadExtRom". The modified 1.77B also returned "BadExtRom". I did not try the unmodified 1.77B BIOS yet.However, the original poster noted that his unit would not function in non-IBM systems without using the 1.77B modified BIOS. Could you let me know what symptoms you were getting when you tried the original firmware in a non-IBM system?

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 03, 2019, 01:53:26 pmso *this* is the problem? with "non-IBM systems" do you mean Unix workstations/server without a PC-BIOS?

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:53:48 pm
content: My bridges are model 7726 BIOS v1.69. They perfectly work on HPPA Workstations as well as on Roland enginesIs the problem related only to 7722?

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 09:08:39 pm
content: I think the problem is related to AEC-7722IR. However, I don't recall the outcomes of my tests with the original EEPROM. I started this work 2 years ago and just now picked it up again. I can no longer recall if there was any issues with the original EEPROM. I had wanted to upgrade the BIOS because someone told me it might let you use hard drives rather than just CD-ROM drives. Hopefully someone with the original BIOS in their AEC-7722IR can confirm what the issues are with it.

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 09:56:39 pm
content: Bios 1.77B worked well on Win 2k Win XPIt does not work on systems >Win7 (8 ,10) (no test UNIX)It's a bit weird.These adapters were generally dedicated.Unfortunately, support is poor.And what do you want to use (exactly) with this adapter?I actually bought it accidentally.I thought there was a normal SCSI drive in the IBM chassis. I was a little surprised when the DVD-Ram was in the middle and this adapter ...I've tried it a bit (including reprogramming) but as I write ... even on the latest firmware there are problems with the latest OS

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 03:29:30 am
content: I would like this ACARD adapter to convert my IDE CD-ROM drive to SCSI interface for use on an Am5x86 system, which runs DOS, Windows 95c, and NT 4.0. It will never be used on anything newer than Windows XP SP3.Could you let me know what problematic symptoms you were experiencing with your adapter before you upgraded the firmware? I'd like to know if the symptoms are similar to what I am experiencing right now - that is, the adapter detects the adapter/CD-ROM drive, but won't read from a disc and the DOS driver won't setup.Also what have you used the adapter for after upgrading the firmware? How did you confirm its working properly now?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 04:22:44 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 03, 2019, 01:53:26 pmso it wasnt hardware related, never mind then

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 06:19:14 am
content: 1. Is it simpler to use the CDROM on IDE ??2. How did you upload the software to the original IC?Can you show what the loaded code looks like? (Screen from the Wellon program)

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 06:42:30 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 04, 2019, 03:29:30 amAre you able to provide some answers to these questions? It may be that there is nothing wrong with my unit and that it expects certain hardware that it isn't receiving.EDIT: When using, both, 1.77A and 1.77B BIOSes, the SCSI host controller card will identify the CD-ROM correctly, but the original 3.77I BIOS provided by max-bit and the 1.77B BIOS modded by max-bit, return, BadExtRom 16K on the SCSI scan. Still cannot access a disc in the CD-ROM with 1.77A & 1.77B though.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 03:06:03 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 04, 2019, 06:42:30 amwasnt the whole thread about changing format of those files? you need this onehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/add-a-single-byte-in-a-bin-file-every-one-byte-(all-file)/msg1972562/#msg1972562

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 03:18:51 am
content: newfile.bin.zip also returns "BadExtRom 16K". The only ROMs which are recognised are the originals 1.77A and 1.77B.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 05:41:02 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 05, 2019, 03:18:51 amhave you compared them in hexeditor for obvious differences?

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 11:01:58 am
content: Yeah, apparently the adapter doesn't care for the alternating FF every 8 bits.I'm thinking my issue is PCB component related. The PCB appears to be developed for TSOP-48 and PLCC-32 options, with the SMD components chosen being the compliment.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2019, 07:42:12 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on January 05, 2019, 03:18:51 amI had a look at newfile.bin.zip, its obviously off by one byte and had no chance of working even if you needed interleaved filesQuote from: feipoa on January 05, 2019, 11:01:58 amthe other way around? 3.77I BIOS provided by max-bit is interleaved, it appears only the non interleaved ones work for you, so remoev every second byte from IBM_ver 3_77i_AEC7722IR_ver2006_16bit.BIN

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 09:25:22 am
content: I really appreciate everyone's comments. I'm a bit burned out on this project right now, but if anyone has a BIOS imaged modified for how Rasz is suggesting, I'd give it a go. Doing what you're asking would require learning time and I'm spent.Also, I found someone who has rev 1.5 of this PCB. It contains BIOS rev 1.50I. What is of interest is that it contains only a 512 Kbit EEPROM chip - W29EE512P-70. Still PLCC-32. I'm using a PLCC-32, 4 mbit chip, which I thought I recalled seeing one one of these units when I looked into this years ago, and is why I bought the 4 mbit chip to flash. Any chance using an EEPROM too large will cause issues?

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2021, 04:54:10 am
content: I thought it would be a good time to provide an update to this thread. I have been getting messages from people on other forums who have stumbled upon this thread. After viewing another thread on this topic whereby the user had some initial success, I thought I'd revisit my work. That other thread is here,https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/converting-acard-aec-7722-to-aec-7726.38935/It would seem that I had been doing nothing wrong, that is, I am using 8-bit PLCC32 EEPROMs and the BIOS binaries I was using are already intended for 8-bit EEPROMs. The problem is that these ACARD units are somewhat particular as to different combinations of host controllers, devices, and cables.I am using AEC-7722IR with PCB version 1.8, which originally contained a TSOP-48 EEPROM and BIOS v3.77I. I removed this EEPROM and soldered on a PLCC32 socket and am using an SST 39SF040, 512Kx8 bit EEPROM (PLCC32). I have no problem using BIOS version 1.77B, which is for the non-IR version of the AEC-7722. At least for the particular combination of hardware I tested, it seems that you cannot use 50-pin narrow terminated SCSI cables via a male 68-pin to female 50-pin adapter. Also, I tried with and without the SE jumper set on the ACARD. I tested with an ISA SCSI card, the AHA-1520B, and a PCI Ultra160 based card, which also contained a 50-pin connector. The ACARD adapter worked if I connected it with a 68-pin cable to a host controller's 68-pin connector. If you want to connect the AEC-7722 to a SCSI host controller that only contains a 50-pin connector, you must use a female 50-pin to female 68-pin adapter on the host controller's connector, and use a 68-pin terminated cable. You cannot use the pin adapter on the ACARD side. Another user on the Vogons forum has also confirmed this finding.When I ran a quick benchmark with Adaptec SCSIBench32 on an Adaptec Ultra160 host controller, and the CD-ROM returned about 30 MB/s for same sector tranfers. When the CD-ROM was connected to an ISA AHA-1520B host controller, it benched 2700 KB/s, which from my experience is near the max of what a 50-pin narrow card can achieve on a 16-bit ISA. I tried about a half-dozen CD/DVD-ROM drives. Most of them worked, but some do not. Various Lite-On and LG drives worked, but my Compaq and Toshiba drives did not. Another brand worked, but was abnormally slow. I also tried a SATA CD-ROM drive, first connected to a SATA-to-IDE adapter, then to the ACARD. It worked, but the performance was substantially slower than using a native IDE CD-ROM, that is, about 5 MB/s in the benchmarks vs. 30 MB/s.Another observation was that I was unable to use DOS SCSI CD-ROM drivers when the CD-ROM was connected to the ISA AHA-1520B host controller. For some reason the ASPI2DOS.SYS file didn't want to load in config.sys. While I ensured the IRQ was different than the motherboard's native UltraWide SCSI controller, there may have been some other conflict. I don't know. I'd have to retest this on a motherboard without built-in SCSI. Booting into Windows 2000, I am able to use the ACARD CD-ROM on the AHA-1520B. Alternatively, I had no issue using DOS SCSI CD-ROM drivers w/ACARD on the motherboard's native UltraWide controller (AIC-7880P). Note the motherboard is a Intel PR440FX socket 8 with two Intel Pentium II Overdrive 333 MHz units installed, and 1 GB of buffered EDO 50 ns memory. I also used a Gateway motherboard with Athlon 950 slot A for testing. This board contains the Ultra 160 host controller.Next, I had wanted to see if I could use the 7726Q and 7726H BIOSes on the 7722 because this would let me convert IDE hard drives to Ultra 160 SCSI. I say Ultra 160 because the Acard manuals mention the 7726 work up to Ultra160. I did my testing mostly with BIOS version 1.73Q for the AEC-7726Q. The answer is yes, IDE hard drives and CF cards will work with v1.69H and v1.73Q BIOSes on the AEC-7722. Some CF card models don't work, like some noname eBay special deal unit and a Transcend 133x 8GB. The CF cards which did work were the Transcend Industrial CF170, Sandisk Ultra, SanDisk ExtremePro, and Lexar Pro 600x. I also tested IDE Maxtor Diamond Max 9 Plus and Diamond Max 10.I ran some quick benchmarks on an Athlon 950 system with a Ultra160 controller. Using Adaptec EZ-SCSI Deluxe v5.0 and SCSIBench32, I see that a 10K Seagate U320 HDD returns 78 MB/s sequential and 119 MB/s same sector. With the Diamond Max 9 Plus, I get 58 MB/s sequential and 106 MB/s same sector. With the Diamond Max 10, I get 65 MB/s sequential. I think this is pretty decent for using a bridge adapter. Unfortunately, I benched the CF cards on a the Intel PIIOD system with only a UltraWide controller (max 40 MB/s), so the comparison is not fair, but nonetheless, with a CF card on a slower host controller, I get 23 MB/s.There are some caveats when using HDDs and CF cards on the AEC-7722 w/7726 BIOS; they are similar to that of using CD-ROMs, but with an extra limitation. It seems that hard drives and CF cards must be used on a 16-bit bus, meaning 68-pin only. Trying to use a 68-pin terminated SCSI cable with a female 50-pin to female 68-pin adapter on the 50-pin host controller side resulted in extremely slow performance. While the system was able to boot, it was slow - about 275 KByte/s slow.In summary, CD-ROMs with 1.77B work fine with the PLCC32 adaption. They work fine on 8-bit (usually 50-pin) and 16-bit (usually 68-pin) SCSI buses. Hard drives and CF cards work on the AEC-7722 with 7726 BIOS versions 1.69H and 1.73Q, but only on 16-bit SCSI buses. This is in contrast to the AEC-7720U, which uses a different ACARD chipset, which can accomodate IDE hard drives and CF cards on 8-bit 50-pin SCSI buses.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:54:06 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on November 28, 2021, 04:54:10 amJust want to add my experience... I recently picked one of these up (AEC-7722, this one specifically:https://www.ebay.com/itm/324946138745), looking to use it to replace the OEM HD with something solid state in my Agilent 16702B logic analyzer, which uses 50-pin single ended SCSI. I had success using quite a few IDE drives and adapters with both firmware 1.69H and 1.73Q. I also tested 1.77B with an IDE CD-ROM drive, and it worked fine.The SCSI adapter I used was an HP 50-pin to 68-pin adapter (HP P/N 5182-4551, like:https://www.ebay.com/itm/361343207980), which was connected to the OEM HD. I also tried this adapter:https://www.ebay.com/itm/373808851302, though it didn't work as-is, and didn't work with the OEM hard drive either. I've seen this adapter as well:https://www.ebay.com/itm/280662764240, though I haven't tested it.I think the non-working adapter didn't work because it tied all upper 8 data bits and its parity directly to GND. For comparison, the HP one has all those pins tied together, but pulled to TERMPWR with a 4.7K resistor. I modified the adapter to be similar to the HP one, and it worked. I don't really recommend buying that to modify though, since the traces that need to be cut are beneath the 68-pin connector... so you need to remove the connector, cut traces, then resolder it. I'll probably end up making my own adapter for a better mechanical fit anyway, so I'll post the schematics/gerbers if/when I do.I did a lot of testing, so I might be remembering wrong... but IIRC, 1.69H seemed to be a bit more forgiving with the bad SCSI adapter. I think it'd report the model of the device connected, though it'd hang if you tried using it. I think 1.73Q seemed completely dead with the bad adapter. I just mention this to note that one or the other firmware might be more forgiving if you're running into any problems. I also tried both with an without the SE jumper, and it worked either way (I'm guessing it detects diff/SE automatically, but the jumper simply forces it to SE).Attached is a pic of the adapter sandwich, and several of the drives/adapters I used. I did some benchmarks (on the 16702B, running HP-UX), though of course performance depends on the specifics. Here's some data (not all devices got every test):Sequential read from raw disk:Code:time dd if=/dev/dsk/c0t6d0 of=/dev/null bs=1000000 count=100OEM HD: 29.6 seconds10GB IDE HD: 38.6 secondsSATA SSD: 38.8 secondsExtreme Pro uSD: 40.9 seconds (when at /dev/dsk/c0t1d0, all SD cards were ~44.9 seconds)IDE FFC SSD: 44.7 secondsSanDisk Ultra CF: 53.9Transcend 133x CF: 62.1Write file to disk:Code:time dd if=/dev/mem of=/logic/testout.bin bs=1000000 count=100OEM HD: 19.9 secondsExtreme Pro uSD: 21.3 secondsIDE FFC SSD: 24.7 secondsRead file from disk:Code:time dd if=/logic/testout.bin of=/dev/null bs=1000000 count=100Extreme Pro uSD: 21.0 secondsOEM HD: 21.2 secondsIDE FFC SSD: 25.3 secondsBoot time:Code:SATA SSD: 2:50IDE FFC SSD: 2:50SanDisk Ultra CF: 2:55Extreme Pro uSD: 3:03OEM HD: 3:25The best overall performance was from the small SATA SSD using SATA->IDE->SCSI. The IDE SSD (using FFC adapter) performed really well in the boot time test, though mediocre in the speed benchmarks. The CF card performed well in the boot time test, though the CF cards were the slowest in the speed benchmarks. The SD to CF adapter (SD->CF(IDE)->SCSI) had good transfer speed, though was a bit slower than the CF to boot. The OEM SCSI HD had good speed performance, but was the slowest for boot time (expected, since the speed tests were mostly sequential, and boot has a lot of random access).A couple notes... the SATA SSD would occasionally fail to initialize at boot (all of the others properly initialized every time)... not sure if there's a compatibility issue with the IDE adapter, SSD itself, etc., but I wouldn't recommend that. The other oddity I noticed with the CF to SD adapter was when I tested in place of the CDROM (SCSI ID 1), it would pause for about 4 seconds before returning any data (e.g. copy 1 byte took 4 seconds, copy 1MB took 4.5 seconds). No idea why that happened, but it was consistent with every SD card I tried. But when it was in place of the HD (at SCSI ID 6), everything was fine with no delays. Another thing I'm not totally sure of is why the raw disk read was slower than reading a file from the disk (but it was consistent with all drives). Maybe the buffering is more efficient or something?Of course YMMV... it's very possible that it's highly dependent on the controller, hardware, etc. In the case of the 16702B, it uses an oddball SCSI controller (not a typical Adaptec PC card), and the entire system is single ended narrow SCSI-2 (controller on ID 7, HD on ID 6, and CDROM on ID 1). As such, it only runs at 5 MHz (obviously much slower than the Ultra160, etc. discussed in the previous post). I have no idea whether this would work at fast (10 MHz) narrow (50-pin, 8-bit) differential for example. But maybe some other classic computers/electronics have similar a narrow SE setup that'll have good luck like I did.DogP

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 08:55:23 am
content: Thank you for the additional information about the terminator. I only see one of these part numbers for $50 on eBay at present; that's too much for me. I checked my male 68-pin to male 50-pin SCSI adaptors and they all have the higher order data pins going to GND rather than TRMPWR. I'm not sure that I want to modify the adaptor. Unfortunately, it is not possible to tell from eBay photos which adaptors have these pins going to TRMPWR vs. GND.To confirm, on your HP adaptor, you have all of these pins (on the 68-pin side) going to TRMPWR:pin 1 (+DATA BUS 12)pin 2 (+DATA BUS 13)pin 3 (+DATA BUS 14)pin 4 (+DATA BUS 15)pin 5 (+DATA BUS ODD PARITY)pin 31 (+DATA BUS 8pin 32 (+DATA BUS 9)pin 33 (+DATA BUS 10)pin 34 (+DATA BUS 11)pin 35 (-DATA BUS 12)pin 36 (-DATA BUS 13)pin 37 (-DATA BUS 14)pin 38 (-DATA BUS 15)pin 39 (-DATA BUS ODD PARITY)pin 65 (-DATA BUS 8pin 66 (-DATA BUS 9)pin 67 (-DATA BUS 10)pin 68 (-DATA BUS 11)

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2022, 08:19:10 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on April 13, 2022, 08:55:23 amNo, only pins 35-39 and 65-68 (i.e. the -DATA bus pins) are shorted together, and pulled up to TERMPWR w/ a 4.7K resistor. Those extra +DATA pins are left floating.I'll post schematics soon. I've been traveling lately, so haven't had much time to work on it... but was working on figuring out how to mechanically mount everything in my logic analyzer again last night, and will be building my own adapter soon to help with that.DogP

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2022, 07:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: max-bit on November 17, 2018, 09:36:52 pmIt wasn't me who revived this thread, but a shorter answer to the original question is this one-liner:Code:> srec_cat slvd177b.bin -bin -unsplit 2 0 -generate -over slvd177b.bin -bin -const 0xff -unsplit 2 1 -o slvd177b-16bit.bin -binWhich gives:Code:> xxd -g1 slvd177b-16bit.bin | head00000000: 02 ff 00 ff d0 ff 81 ff 7c ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ........|.......00000010: 02 ff 0c ff 3c ff 02 ff 15 ff 07 ff ff ff ff ff ....<...........00000020: 02 ff 00 ff d0 ff 32 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ......2.........00000030: ff ff ff ff ff ff 32 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ......2.........00000040: ff ff ff ff ff ff 32 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ......2.........00000050: ff ff ff ff ff ff 32 ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ff ......2.........00000060: 41 ff 37 ff 36 ff 35 ff 44 ff 53 ff 49 ff 42 ff A.7.6.5.D.S.I.B.00000070: 47 ff 31 ff 37 ff 37 ff 42 ff 00 ff 00 ff 1f ff G.1.7.7.B.......00000080: 32 ff 30 ff 30 ff 32 ff 31 ff 31 ff 30 ff 37 ff 2.0.0.2.1.1.0.7.00000090: 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff 20 ff . . . . . . . .

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2022, 09:16:05 am
content: Quote from: DogP on April 14, 2022, 08:19:10 amI posted schematics, pics, and some notes here:https://github.com/pdaderko/16702B/tree/main/5182-4551. I believe that they're correct, though I haven't built anything based on these schematics yet, so I can't confirm.DogP

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2022, 09:54:32 am
content: Neat, thank you. Do you know if these connectors are still available? If you have a BOM for the components and upload to OSHPARK (or similar), I'll probably put some together.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2022, 12:45:11 pm
content: If the goal is SCSI to SD, then there's also the more direct solution ofSCSI2SDinstead of stacking three adapters. People havereported successin the HP 16700, and it can evenemulate a CD-ROM drive in addition to a HD.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2022, 03:09:41 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on April 18, 2022, 09:54:32 amI haven't seen those connectors for sale anywhere... I'm planning to finish up a couple adapter designs tonight, one of which I'm planning to use an IDC connector for (remove the connector from a ribbon cable and solder the IDC contacts to PTHs in the PCB like they were pins). I'll post some pics later, and upload the designs once I've tested it.Quote from: alm on April 18, 2022, 12:45:11 pmYep, I've seen the SCSI2SD, though the benchmarks I've seen show that it's slower than the OEM SCSI drive. OTOH, the ACARD adapters have been shown to be faster than the OEM drive (my system booted 35 seconds faster by simply swapping the drive). Also, SCSI2SD is ~$100+shipping (and currently out of stock) while the ACARD adapters are readily available for $21 shipped on ebay... plus whichever IDE adapter used (I have a bunch on-hand since I use them on lots of my arcade machines), and 50->68 pin SCSI adapter if needed.Plus, this kinda thing is fun... and while it sounds like the few others that tried haven't had luck getting good performance out of their AEC-7722 in a narrow SCSI system, I figured I'd share details of my setup that has gotten good results, and maybe it'll help others find another alternative to the extremely overpriced 50-pin ACARD adapters available.DogP

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2022, 09:54:14 am
content: Attached are a few renderings/pics... the one shown with the female 68-pin connector I plan to solder to the bottom of the AEC-7722, which would "permanently" convert the board to 50-pin SCSI. I also made an adapter with the 68-pin IDC connector, with the 50-pin connector down and left... trying to keep the total physical envelope as small as possible. The paper printouts show the idea(s).The boards have been ordered... should have them next week. I'll post back once tested.DogP

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 03:39:28 am
content: Got the boards today, and both styles work great! Attached are a few pics. The standalone 50 pin to 68 pin adapter can work with either a vertical or right angle 50-pin connector. For a lower profile, I ended up using the style soldered directly to the bottom of the ACARD board. This style only works with a vertical connector, unless you modify the key (or rotate the plastic shroud, use an unkeyed/unshrouded connector, etc).BTW, this is the cable I bought, and removed the SCSI connector for the standalone adapter from:https://www.ebay.com/itm/143939246933... though it was only $4.99 shipped when I bought it, so there's probably a better deal on ebay now.Anyway, I'll post the design files to Github in the next couple days in case anyone would like to build their own.DogP

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2022, 09:01:46 am
content: BTW, I uploaded the SCSI adapters to Github:https://github.com/pdaderko/16702B/tree/main/SCSI_50_to_68_maleandhttps://github.com/pdaderko/16702B/tree/main/SCSI_50_to_68_femaleI'd definitely be interested to hear results if you give either of these a try...DogP

author: ATEQUITY5
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 08:28:42 am
content: Hi Everbody, I am looking to use the acard 7722 for a Akai Sampler which is based on a 386embedded, target is to attach sd card writer IDE. I have in a second Akai sampler with a working Acard. Is it possible to extract the firmware out of the other model and put it into a 7722 card? If yes, what do I need. There is no need to use SCSI2SD or ZULU SCSI, because the Akai is using Fat32 format and one SSD or sd card is enough. I look for a cheaper solution. And the acard is a lot faster compared to the SCSI2SD, I have both in the same machine. Any help would be fine, there are quite a lot AKAI User who look for an alternative. SCSI2SD is not working anymore because of shortage of parts. Thanks for reading

author: mfro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 09:41:43 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on November 17, 2018, 10:09:39 pmBefore we had Python, we had the Unix shell. The same can be done in one single line:Code:paste -d '\0' <(xxd -p -c1 original ) <(dd if=/dev/zero bs=1 count=$(stat -c "%s" original) | tr '\000' '\377' | xxd -p -c1 ) | xxd -p -r > merged

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 05:36:22 pm
content: Quote from: mfro on January 16, 2023, 09:41:43 amYes, and then we came up with a way to make things maintainable instead of cryptic one-liners that only work on one OS.I'm sure it is possible to pack this all into one line of Python code, but this is not an obfuscated coding contest.Edit: of course, it is possible. Here is a Python one-liner that is shorter than the shell one (and arguable more readable):Code:open('out.bin', 'wb').write(bytes([j for i in open('in.bin', 'rb').read() for j in [i, 0xff]]))It is still shorter even if you run it as a standalone command in a shell-style with python -c "...."

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 09:37:32 am
content: Quote from: ATEQUITY5 on January 16, 2023, 08:28:42 amIf your working ACARD is compatible with the 7722, you can desolder the flash chip and dump it. But there are a lot of versions of the firmware already available to download, so I wouldn't expect that you'd need to dump your old one.You should just need to desolder the 7722's flash chip, (optionally) install a socket, burn the appropriate firmware to the flash chip, and reinstall on the 7722. IIRC, I tested and had good luck with both 1.69H and 1.73Q.DogP

author: fisafisa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 03:56:19 pm
content: Hi.Where can I find the 7726 BIOS versions 1.69H and 1.73Q?I am planning to convert a couple of 7722 to 7726Many thanks!PS I found them.If anybody needs them please pm me.

author: fisafisa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2023, 10:35:39 pm
content: summary of what l learned.1) firmware 1.73q works16 bit scsialso 8 bit using a working adapter!works with sd to ide adapter2) you have to de-solder the flash and reflash itI notice that the flash had the 16K code repeated twiceso I did the same: one copy at 0000 and one at 0x40003) I used sockets in 2 cases and in one I soldered directly!check all connections. I never got it 100% first time4) test components separately.I checked the sd to ide and found problems in a sdI checked with a 16bit connection firstLast I introduced the 8 to 16 bit adapterI found problems at each step5) the scsi 8 to 16 adapters on ebay are a disaster:- they connect to ground D8 D15 when they should have been left floatingthere are two pads where to place a 4.7K resistor to Vtermto remove the short I had to remove copper near one of the pins on the edge of the connector.The short is just on one side of the pad under the 68 pin connectora second short to ground is on the opposite edge but on the visible sidethe short is an intentional connection: 4 thermal relief connections to the ground planea second connector also had a further short, not a systematic flaw in the pcb, but I think a problem with the soldering of the connectorthe connector male 68 pin is in fact an idc connector soldered directly to the pcbthe knives have been somehow squeezed close and inserted inside the pads and it happens that before inserting they can damage the pcb and connect to a nearby trace...the 68 to 50 pin conversion has proven to be the most difficult part.F

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2023, 01:54:16 am
content: Quote from: fisafisa on June 25, 2023, 10:35:39 pmThat's what I noticed as well. Did you end up modifying the ebay adapter to fix all the problems, or build a new one?DogP

author: fisafisa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2023, 07:42:45 pm
content: out of 3 now 2 are working!First I took apart one to see the layout in detailThis way I understood the various problems of the device.1) the 9 higher bits are connected together and to a pad to host the 4.7K resistor to Vterm.unfortunately on one corner they are shorted to ground2) the connect idc knives sometimes are bent and cut into traces creating shortsone was an easy fix: add resistor and remove short to groundthe second had 2 shorts due to bent knives. I had to drill through to cut the traces on top of the 68 pin connector and to cut the trace near the 50 pin oneThen I routed two wires to reestablish the connectionA third wire is because I had to cut a trace to allow a wire to go across in between the two connectors.See the images below

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2024, 06:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: DogP on April 28, 2022, 09:01:46 amThank you! I just ordered these two PCB's from JLCPCB. Do these PCB's act as terminator cards, meaning, the AEC-7722 should be the last item on the cable and I would not use a 50-pin cable with termination?

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2024, 12:42:15 am
content: Quote from: feipoa on February 18, 2024, 06:30:14 pmNo, these only adapt the 16-bit device to operate on the 8-bit bus. This adapter terminates the (unused) upper byte for the device, but the lower byte (i.e. your system's 8-bit SCSI bus) still needs to be properly terminated.DogP

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2024, 02:29:31 pm
content: I'll begin testing these soon. However, I wanted to caution others not to straight away start disassembling their 68-pin SCSI cables. I took apart two cables so far and both of the crimped ends have different spacing compared to what DogP has laid out on the PCB.I may need to use the PCB variant that solders directly to the ACARD adaptor. Once the PCB is soldered on, am I still able to use the 68-pin connector for CD-ROMs without resoldering DogP's PCB? In viewing the traces, it seems like this should be OK.

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2024, 04:03:54 am
content: DogP, I've soldered on one of the boards and have a few questions:a) do you know if your upper-byte-terminated-adaptor needs to be on the end of the SCSI cable, e.g. just before the terminator block, or can it be somewhere in the middle of the SCSI cable, with say, other devices downstream of it?b) I was planning on setting up a system which has ACARD on CD-ROM, ACARD on CF, and a SCSI ZIP drive. Do you think the ACARD-CDROM unit needs one of your adaptors as well, or will a simple 68pin-to-50pin plug suffice? See attached photo.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2024, 08:44:41 pm
content: Quote from: feipoa on March 01, 2024, 02:29:31 pmCan you post a picture of what the IDC connector looks like? I've seen two different spacings, but had no problem getting both of them into the adapter (one had all 4 rows equally spaced, the other had the top two and bottom two rows slightly closer to each other). Curious what others are out there.Quote from: feipoa on March 01, 2024, 02:29:31 pmWith the 50-pin adapter installed, you won't be able to use the 68-pin connector, since it terminates the upper byte. Well, to clarify - you won't be able to use the 68-pin cable in 16-bit mode at least, since the upper byte is shorted together and pulled to TERMPWR.Quote from: feipoa on March 02, 2024, 04:03:54 amIt shouldn't matter where it is, since it's only intending to terminate the upper byte of the device (16-bit capable device running in 8-bit mode), not the entire cable. Not sure if it's clear, but a 50-pin SCSI ribbon has 8 data bits, and a 68-pin ribbon has 16 data bits. So, if you're connecting everything with a 50-pin ribbon cable, you're only using an 8-bit interface, and the upper byte which may be terminated at one device is completely unconnected at another device because those lines aren't connected through the 50-pin cable.Quote from: feipoa on March 02, 2024, 04:03:54 amI'm not familiar with that other adapter you have... if it's wired correctly, it should function identically to my adapter. The problem I ran into was the couple of 50 to 68 pin adapters I tried incorrectly terminated the upper byte (e.g. connected to GND), which caused the device to not work. If the adapter you have works with the CD-ROM alone, I'd expect it to work fine with the whole system.DogP

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2024, 11:36:50 pm
content: Thanks for your answers. So the 68-pin connector will still work with your adaptor installed, but the CD-ROM or HDD will only be able send a datastream of 8-bits wide.That 50-to-68 pin SCSI adaptor you see on the CD-ROM drive - as I recall it, it let the CD-ROM work just fine on a 50-pin cable, but not a HDD/CF card.Attached are the two 68-pin SCSI cable ends I pulled off. One has the spacing too close together, and the other too far apart. I could not get leads into your PCB.

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2024, 12:11:12 pm
content: I pulled apart a 3rd SCSI cable and it has different pin spacing than the first two cables and also does not fit the PCB. They really didn't standardise these crimp ends.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2024, 06:25:25 pm
content: Interesting... thanks for the report. I just found the cable I used, and the part numbers listed are:Inventec 6017A0000101Compaq J2035296016-008You can see from the holes left in the cable that the spacing was narrower between the two middle rows, but I was still able to push it into the holes on the PCB... just took a little bit more effort than the evenly spaced one.This is the exact cable I purchased:https://www.ebay.com/itm/143939246933... looks like they've still got one available. I don't remember where the other connector I tested came from - I think just from a misc. cable I found laying around, which had the same total spacing from rows 1-4, but all 4 rows were evenly spaced.DogP

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2024, 10:07:04 pm
content: I tried forcing all 3 connectors earlier, but could not get them into the PCB.I considered buying your cable, but then noticed a comment in that eBay listing stating that buyers may not get what is pictured, but rather get something of identical specs/function.

author: feipoa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 10:19:14 am
content: I left an open question a few days ago concerning my 50-pin female to 68-pin male SCSI adaptor. Unfortunately, this adaptor alone was not sufficient to allow my IDE CD-ROM drive to work with an ACARD AEC-7722 and my ISA SCSI host controller. I had to use DogP's solder-on PCB on another ACARD unit. The good news is that the IDE CD-ROM and CF card are now both functional with the SCSI 8-bit, 50-pin narrow controller using DogP's adaptor. I tested it briefly in DOS with an Adaptec AHA-1522B and an AHA-1542CP. I will be building a system around this configuration, so more testing is to come.