Adhesive death. The eletrofita system - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 09:14:36 am
content: I couldn't see this mentioned previously on here. I saw a video of this and at first glance it looks like a reasonable idea until you think about it for more than a millisecond. They are feeding mains voltage through adhesive copper strips (to new outlets or light switches etc...), then put some tape, plaster and paint over it.I don't see how this would be legal anywhere due to the lack of insulation / physical protection. What's other peoples thoughts??? It looks to be Brazilian but I couldn't get their website to load. Heaps of images in google though to give you an idea. Below is one of their videos.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 09:52:22 am
content: This would not be my chosen way to install mains wiring and I doubt that it would pass a safety inspection anywhere in Europe. However, if that mesh that they put over the copper strips was kevlar it might provide some protection.Nice idea for low voltage wiring though, I may experiment.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 10:21:12 am
content: Just stupid if it was mains, it would not be legal here and would kill the next person putting in a fixing to mount a picture, these people should learn proper cabling techniques.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 10:28:37 am
content: ya, that won't fly here either, not even low voltage.Mains needs to be buried in a wall as Romex or wrapped in conduit. And it needs to set back no less than 1 inch from the wall. So studs need to be drilled enough to allow that before you run the wires through. In some cases, a Metal plate needs to be placed over the hole on the stud before drywall is placed over it. The set-back one inch is mainly for drywall screws not getting close to the wire. However, As a cabinetmaker/installer/remodeler, I'm not gonna lie....there's been a couple times I've hit 110 with my drill screwing in a 3 inch screw to mount a cabinet.Speaker wires you can do what that guy in video is, but to mains? That's just crazy.

author: mroz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 10:56:40 am
content: The idea itself seems interesting, but the implementation is not.A i see there, the copper tape is strapped directly to the wall. What happens you pour a liquid over that and then touch it? The idea is, I suppose, that this way those wires may be very thin, but i don't think its a good idea to put 230VAC there.Those were the cons, but what if we do it properly? For example if we add a proper insulation tape below and above the copper track? This should be sufficient (see the imagehttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7430474/Untitled.png). The problem is this way it will get much thinner (maybe 3 times) so, its gonna be much harder to hide it behind a paint.Moreover, according to a PCB trace width calculator included in KiCad, a 0,035mm x 11mm copper trace should be able to conduct 5 amps at 5meter distance with only 5.6W loss ( compared to 5 amps * 230 V=1150W its nothing) and 5 degree temperature rise. Calculations done for internal PCB trace.I am not talking about passing any legal things. That idea is a neat hack that can be used to provide power where its required without using power cords (no go down, below your bench and count the number of power cords). It is simple and elegant. You can tape it over furniture(for example on the back of a shelf) to provide power to an equipment stored in it. I like it.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 03:25:03 pm
content: The concept is great for applications that allow it. I've seen it for ethernet cables, though I doubt that will work for distances.Such as ceiling lights where the initial power box is meters away and cables are ugly.If you were to use it for high voltages, then at least stack the conductors and surround them with earth foil. That way it will trip the RCD when punctured. Just as in outdoor cable.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 05:42:01 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on January 09, 2016, 03:25:03 pmAside from the fundamental heebee jeebee reaction from laying out mains like that, that was my first concern. It wouldn't take a lot of imagination to picture some metallic component of some shelving, for example, that was set against the wall to penetrate down to a conductor. It could be through wear where the shelving was resting against the wall and there was movement in the floor or an impact by somebody bumping into it. Take your pick of scenarios that could follow.Also, because it is essentially invisible, subsequent maintenance actions enter a whole new realm of risk.IMHO, there is a requirement for 'elevated care' in such an installation for things tonotgo south, that is just simply unrealistic. I'd only suggest it for low power speaker wiring at best - but for mains power ... forget it!

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 09:31:07 am
content: It starts badly - no provision for an earth/ground connection at all.+1 to to all the earlier comments

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 10:57:47 pm
content: Darwin award here... No doubt...If I am not mistaken that tape was meant to wire the loudspeakers or to carry signals whatsoever...The author is probably laying down a trap for it's mother-in-law...Irony is, electrofitas sounds much like a contraption for electro-neophite, thus it matches with the content of the video...

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 11:49:59 pm
content: Never mind the Elf'n'Safety, it looks like even more work than just doing it properly. Also, maintenance? Utterly pathetic. I imagine this is on an "As seen on TV" shopping channel?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 01:03:34 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on January 09, 2016, 09:52:22 amI first saw this system as speaker wiring.The mesh tape looked like the fiberglass mesh tape used for patching and joining drywall sheets (at least, how it's commonly done in USA). I imagine kevlar tape would require those specialty scissors used for kevlar string.

author: Godzil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 01:15:15 am
content: I suspect this is the sort of video that run on POS. (Considering the quality it's coming from a VHS)

author: lintini
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 06:59:59 pm
content: It's a Brazilian invention I suppose and I can tell you I love it - I have it in my house. It delivers 220Vac to five 5W light spots through a 10A ON/OFF switch. The insulation is tough enough to withstand some damage and it gets invisible when applied correctly. It's solder-able and easy to work with.C'mon guys. Are you really concerned of puncturing it with a nail or something? What common wire wouldn't be damaged? You would be shocked for sure if you stab it with a sharp knife - as any wire in the world.Every country has its own standards, definitely. Some are exaggerated as we knowAnd yes, some types come with an extra flat wire for grounding.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:20:45 am
content: This tape looks like a perfect match to the electric shower head.There is some protective (transparent) film over the copper at least - so there is a little more insulation than just the plaster and paint.A strange point in video is that they only fixed the lamp with tape - this would not last very long.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 10:31:34 am
content: Quote from: lintini on December 15, 2017, 06:59:59 pmI was expecting better integration with the fixtures, having the foil go straight into a socket rather than having to transition to a wire first.At the very least I'd expect it only to be legal to use in an installation with an RCD and suitable overcurrent protection. A layer of earthed copper or ali. on the front, combined with an RCD could provide reasonable protection against piercing.I've seen a lot worse.....

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 04:20:59 pm
content: This is quite honestly one of the worst inventions I've ever seen. They certainly deserve a Darwin Award.