Mind Reading and Cryptic Posts - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 04:35:55 pm
content: I'm seeing too many posts that expect the reader to know what random poster is on about. What gives?No diagram, dimension or a context. Or is this even a question?Its weird, like some people out here think we know what they've just been thinking (Medic!) or talking to their imaginary friend about.If its a sensitive secret project you hope will make you millions don't ask for free help!

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 05:52:13 pm
content: It's just Facebook "mind fart" lazyness.Just "Point and shoot", some idiot will answer. Perhaps not very helpfully, though.Don't worry, when the Smartphone asker keeps getting crap answers he/she will either throw a hussy fit (ultimately resulting in banning), or think about the quality of the question.The issue is self-correcting.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 06:04:01 pm
content: Used to become upset at these.Then I would make a snarky comment.Nowadays I simply ignore those posts.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 07:12:41 pm
content: I see those too, what boggles my mind is that people answer as if they know exactly what is going on.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 07:13:27 pm
content: And on the other side of the spectrum, let's not forget those who provide answers that have absolutely ZERO relevance to what the user is concerned about.A huge portion of folks respond with what is effectively "well, this is what you (and everyone else) should like and do because *I* like it and *I* do it and therefore it's good and perfect, and anything else is stupid".And how many times have you heard respondents ask the ask-er for more details to find out what they REALLY need? Almost never. They assume, and respond with what they know, even if it's totally irrelevant. Because their ultimate goal is to sound smart, not help people. "Oh, you need a 5 volt power supply?? Well, obviously you should spend $2,000 on a 3 channel, 0-30 volt, programmable, high end power supply because anything else is junk". And the rest of the thread they argue with others on whether he should get Brand A or Brand B, and spend only $2,000 or go for the new $3,000 model. And this is for a guy who only needs a $20 USB battery pack.And then there's the "well I saw this on a 2 minute Youtube video and actually I have no clue WHY this works, but you need to do these 6 steps or else you're an idiot, and I'm an expert".And then there's the fanboys who accept nothing other than what they've decided they like. Y'know, the "you really need to buy a 1950's vintage tube scope" folks who couldn't care less what the asker actually needs for functionality. Cuz tubes are fun.And on and on.....

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 08:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on January 10, 2021, 04:35:55 pmThat's a bit of an attitude you've got there for someone with 17 posts over 6 months. You can't exactly claim to have wasted lots of time and effort trying to get to the bottom of cryptic questions.If they bother you then just ignore them.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 09:32:44 pm
content: Then there are people who try to answer some ill-posed questions without demanding clarification and later accuse OP of wasting their time when it turns out they guessed wrong what it was about

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:12:51 pm
content: If you want good answers, start with a good Subject line and then post a good question. Anything else is a waste of everyone's time.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:14:26 pm
content: Oh yeah, I forgot...And then there are those who, for some reason, equate someone's number of posts with the legitimacy of the point they're making. Like lots of posts means you're smart or better than the other guy or something. Kinda like the clowns at Stack Overflow with their badges and reputation and such.Anyone who's been around tech forums long enough is perfectly aware that those with 5k or 10k or more posts are equally likely to post irrelevant nonsense as anyone else. Maybe more. And all it means is that they have nothing better to do than hang around tech forums all day.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:28:30 pm
content: Hey, that wasn't my point at all! I get as irritated as anyone else with trying to drag information out of a lazy post. It was a gut reaction to the OP's tone and using the 'Angry'emoticon, as though he had suffered some personal waste of effort.As I said, and having already mirrored schmitt trigger's comment. If they bug you, then just ignore them. Zero response posts quickly sink into the mire.Quote from: engrguy42 on January 10, 2021, 10:14:26 pmYep, too true, I keep trying to kick the habit.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:39:36 pm
content: Gyro,It wasn't about you...you merely reminded me of something I see over and over. Honestly, one of the reasons why I might participate in tech forums for only a short time and then leave for months at a time is that, on both sides, I see question askers and responders doing stuff that ultimately makes, IMO, forum discussions often useless and frustrating.Unclear questions, questioners who act entitled to perfect answers, self-centered responses that rarely attempt to address the asker's actual issue, people whose only interest is acting smarter than the other guy, irrational fanboys who couldn't make an objective analysis if their lives depended on it, incredibly fragile egos that resort to childish name calling if you dare disagree, people who don't even read prior posts...The list of frustrations goes on and on.Oh yeah... THAT's why I stopped coming here last summer.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:59:11 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on January 10, 2021, 04:35:55 pmI also can get a bit annoyed, if they go straight for their perceived SOLUTION to what they think is the problem. But if they really explained what they are trying to do, and why, potentially much more experienced (within electronics, especially) people on here, could tell them a better way of sorting it out. Which probably doesn't involve what they were on about in the first place.E.g. They want a 44 V op-amp, when the real solution is to use a decent design that doesn't force the op-amp to go to the full supply rails and/or there is no need to use such high voltages, in the first place.Or they want a >3 GHz microcontroller, because their embedded application is running too slow. But if they explained the reality, it is because it is written in Python (scripting/interpreted language) and/or poorly/inefficiently written code.I.e. The so called ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:35:43 pm
content: Electrotanya has a five questionbasic EE testto become a member. I'd like to see something like that here to keep the boneheads out. If you don't know or learn Ohm's Law, then stick to a forum section for those posts by people outside the profession.I notice theArduino Forumsare pretty snarky, they (veterans) flame posters that are vague or unorganized. I kind of like that, because people expect mind reading to solve their problem and it's so much energy to get them to post details, pictures etc. when they're being secretive or arrogant for some reason.I see veterans get tired of all that and withdraw their energy and it's almost like a "pro" forum would be awesome, your creds needed to become a member. Not to be elitist, but a forum with better S/N ratio?For repairs, titles including the make/model and clear pictures of the board are basics that should be enforced. So many threads are about unknown products and benefit no one else fixing one because a webcrawler has nothing to find.Now there's AI Bots/shills posting as well, we're not really social media to manipulate people- but another source of bullshit threads.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:53:24 pm
content: Then there is one poster that can't see the forest for the "treez"Then he inhales too much magic smoke from some old opamps and changes his name in a not too well disguised attempt to cloak his identityOK, I'll let myself out now

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 12:42:21 am
content: As someone who's been involved in tech forums since the days of dial up modems running in the kBaud range, when bulletin boards were the thing, I can assure you there's no perfect tech forum. At the end of the day, it comes down to egos. And the "veterans" are often the ones with the most fragile and frustratingly annoying egos. Discussions are rarely, if ever, about actually helping people. They're more about acting smarter than the other guy, trying to prove they're right, and being fanboys for whatever shiny equipment they've decided they like. And most tech people are convinced they already know everything, so education isn't important.Nobody will ever admit it, but it's true.And as was mentioned in the many "what's happened to Youtube" threads here, at the end of the day people aren't interested in learning and education, they're interested in entertainment and hobbies and playing with stuff.So I suppose the best forums are those where the most popular threads are stuff like "post a cat picture" and "what cool equipment did you buy today for your bench?"Oh wait....Maybe the real test for new members is "Do you own a cat? Do you have cool equipment you can show?" And, most importantly, "Do you promise to agree with the rest of us?"

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 02:49:48 am
content: you know broad is not always bad

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 02:52:02 am
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on January 11, 2021, 12:42:21 amOnly the first question is relevant.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 03:13:08 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on January 11, 2021, 02:52:02 amAgreed.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 04:50:55 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 10, 2021, 10:28:30 pmOMG our number of posts is too high? Meow.OP, the only way to up the quality of new threads is to give people a hard time right off the bat, scold them for not posting details, schematic, requirements etc.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 08:47:24 am
content: Or on the opposite end you have well described posts that noone reads fully and posts replies that have already been answered in the first post.Example:Thread: "fixing something"OP: "i tried turning it off and back on again and it didn't work"Reply: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2021, 09:58:00 am
content: Oh yes, the un- thought out knee jerk response.Dreadful.When it comes to young players we have to make an educated guess at the age and English language proficiency of the blogger.We shouldn't be being snide to the less able, better to try and see it from where they're at. And the fools and bitches...You are right, just ignore them.This meant to be fun- not an area for smug show offs and know it alls who know FA.So I find myself saying "why the F would you need to build this thingmy, just buy it.But making these hobby items is where our education starts- tear down, see if i can make led blink or make an annoying oscillator, look mum......

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 11:44:04 am
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on January 11, 2021, 08:47:24 amThat made me laugh!!That happens a lot in real life too...I remember many years ago when I looked after prison security systems, (et-al !), and had a call once from acontrol room saying that a screen wasn't working. I said, did you look at the switch at the back?? (Yep, Off).I was in a humorous mood once when a client called, saying "The vertical hold on Monitor-x is not working!!".I said... "Turn the Monitor on it's side and adjust the Horizontal hold!!"... quiet on the line... OK, i then fixed it !!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 12:15:10 pm
content: Two possible solutions:- Don't waste your time and simply don't reply! No need to become angry.- Since you don't have a glass ball ask for the background story and more details, e.g. images or schematics. It might even educate the OP to do better next time.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 06:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 10, 2021, 11:35:43 pmJust tried the basic EE test on Elektrotanya... I got 1 wrong...I'm a complete idiot, but I knew I was a complete idiot when I narrowed it down to 2 possible answers for that question, and still ended up choosing the wrong one like a bonehead!It's the question regarding the U6 resistor voltage drop, which is plainly easy yet I was overthinking it (I'm thinking to myself now... currents split, voltages don't across parallel circuits you moron). Guess will have to wait a few days and try again as I know the answer is the one I felt instinctively I should have chosen rather than overthinking it. However I do like these tests as they help you learn. Currently brushing up on things reading...https://www.amazon.ca/Teach-Yourself-Electricity-Electronics-Sixth/dp/1259585530Maybe I should have done the test AFTER I read this book. The book has a lot of quizzes at the end of each chapter.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 08:03:20 pm
content: I think before new members are allowed to change their profile picture they should pass a simple test and before they pass that test their profile picture would display "NOOB" (or whatever) in big bold letters

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 08:12:21 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on January 12, 2021, 11:44:04 amI was admitted to hospital for concussion many years ago. While waiting for the doctor, I was told I could watch TV in the day room but that there was only sound and no picture. It had been that way for ages and was waiting to be fixed. So, I turned the brightness up...After my eventual exam, I was released with an "unremarkable brain" comment on my record. Remarkable enough to fix your TV, though

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 08:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on January 12, 2021, 08:03:20 pmAlready hereQuote

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2021, 11:41:41 pm
content: Quote from: edy on January 12, 2021, 06:32:12 pmI give a basic 10 question test to EE job applicants, part of the interview. You'd be surprised how many can't calculate a resistor value for an LED, or know op-amp gain equations from memory, despite bragging about all that they've done.The test results do show who's got a basic level of competency.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 12:00:18 am
content: Does anyone know of some online EE quizzes? I find it valuable to test myself occasionally, lest my already-swollen ego reach dangerous levels.And regarding n00bz and their mal-formed questions, I'm in favor of welcoming them to the party. Learning how to ask a good question is associated with learning how to effectively analyze a problem, and that's a skill worth coaching. So don't be nasty, there's too much of that going on. Obvious trolls should be ignored, but I've made good friends of some newcomers who were at first suspected (by the more cynical of us) of being trolls.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 12:04:15 am
content: Whilst I understand how annoying it is reading bizarre threads, I think many are not realizing that the question askerer is so frustrated that they went though the sign up process and after that, face the conundrum of what information to provide and at which level of verbosity.Chicken and egg problem. If they knew what was causing the problem, they would likely know which information to volunteer. I have watched the fora question problem for 20 years.http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 12:06:45 am
content: Ed, this is one of the best references for fora arund the web. Too bad that an insignificat part of people actually read it.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 12:08:08 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 13, 2021, 12:06:45 amThe joke of it is, I'm the worst!"Why won't this @#$%%ing thing work?!?"

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 11:26:27 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 13, 2021, 12:06:45 amRaymond's post has become too long over the decades.I occasionally point people tohttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/good-questions-pique-our-interest-and-dont-waste-our-time-2/I also occasionally complement newbies on the quality of their question

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 05:08:40 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on January 12, 2021, 08:03:20 pmSimilar to the high voltage warning signs!

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 05:24:04 pm
content: I've been guilty of this too... but all too often you start a post asking about something and then by the time you are finished, you've found the answer, and then not wanting to erase all your hard-earned mental purging, you hit the "POST" button. This is like when teachers ask you to "show your work" during math, instead of just giving the answer, but in this case you use a forum like a scratch-pad for your brain, which is not all that easy to understand to anyone but yourself.[UPDATE:]I successfully passed (100%) the Elektrotanya test I retook today (last time I got 80%). They changed most of the questions. Four were fairly easy, then I got a bit stumped on the last... a picture of a schematic and asked whether it was a horizontal section of a CRT, audio tone amplifier circuit or power supply to an appliance. The question pool is interesting, it's broad but not too heavy on the math. Fun to take and work the brain a bit for hobbyists like me who do not have any formal training in the field but rely on reading many books on the subject to learn.