Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 12:23:21 am
content: I know this is Captain Obvious territory, but this makes me despair for society. Barely anyone with any ACTUAL credibility and life experience in a profession, is able to make themselves heard above the incessant noise of "answers" and "solutions"/"tutorials" that is Joe Blogs types (often, and usually millennials) spewing out copy/pasted speculative bullshit that they've heard and ARE PASSING ON BUT HAVEN'T TESTED.There's nothing that makes me more irritated and distrusting of the great unwashed out there, than the sea of morons who simply can't STAND not to be the one shoving their hand in the air, so to speak, saying "ME ME ME MEMEMEMEMEMEEEE! LISTEN TO ME OVER THE OTHERS, I HAVE THE SOLUTION!" and when there's a trillion and one of these goons out there, each INCAPABLE of simply saying "I'm sorry, I just don't know the answer" - when you have a dumbed down, clickbaity, metrics-are-all-that-matter "like comment and sub-scraaaaaab" bullshit internet "society", how is anyone supposed to know where to go for ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (apart from here of course, but even then we get a little bit of this)People online are generally, usually, full of utter shit. Sorry to be so blunt but you can't dig through horse shit "answers" for hours and hours for every single answer, it's tedious and exhausting. Why can't folk just keep their know-it-all-but-really-not-at-all traps shut, instead of DESPERATELY needing to feel validated, even if their "advice" is utter bollocks (and usually it is)?

author: greenpossum
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 12:24:45 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 19, 2020, 12:23:21 amSorry I don't know the answer.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 12:26:05 am
content: Quote from: greenpossum on September 19, 2020, 12:24:45 amNow that was a terse, elegant and spectacular response. I wish I could give you a prize.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 12:45:33 am
content: An on duty policeman gave me a speeding ticket.That was a uniformed opinion.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 12:53:29 am
content: Quote from: eti on September 19, 2020, 12:23:21 amFacts are hard, they require irrefutable evidence and what's worse if that evidence is something that the majority of people haven't experienced in their day to day lives then they have to believe the source or have confidence in it. These two things can be eroded by a constant barrage of bullshit.Opinions on the other hand are easy to come by and barely distinguishable from facts in most peoples minds. They do, however, require validation so the loudest most obtuse dickhead will always have the floor and be able to generate the constant barrage of bullshit needed to undermine facts that oppose their opinionsThat's my opinion

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:01:44 am
content: Because if I don't know the answer I don't post an answer, so you don't see me saying "I don't know the answer"

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:03:41 am
content: Because of theDunning-Kruger effect.No, it's not a meme; it is the actual name of the psychological phenomenon of illusory superiority.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:06:45 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 19, 2020, 01:03:41 amI'd rename that to something like "The horse dung crew 'duh' effect" hehe

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:14:58 am
content: As far as experienced voices being ignored, it's usually because the questioner had an answer they wanted to hear, and they didn't get the answer they wanted.I recall a start-up where someone was hired who'd done two very similar startups before. Their wisdom, based on actual recent experience, was "Doesn't matter what you do, because of how long it will take external suppliers to get their act together it will be six months before you will be able to onboard your first customer". "But the plan is for three months, we've got everything prepared." "It'll take six." "But the plan." "Change it." Cut a long story short they were ignored, it did take six months, the company ran out of funds at the twelve month point (by three months worth of income), had to lay off half the staff, failed to pay a lot of bills leading to a big loss of goodwill and barely survived.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:27:29 am
content: Deeply my opinion only:I think you take it too emotionally. This is the essence of human society.And sometimes truth come from wrong answers... thru the discussion.My personal way, if i really want to, i just tell why this answer is wrong or correct one. The main thing is to be convincing in your reply, why wrong, to those who read.If we stop turning blind eye to such bs, those who seek attention will stop doing so, because otherwise they will quickly gain bad reputation.Sometimes people are very stubborn and you need to make it new level. Dave does that very well, polite and convincing.I go to "russian mode", and if person keep spewing total bullshit, i tell straight he is uneducated moron, etc, etc, and underscore why, all his bs.Yes, it makes enemies, but sometimes it is necessary to eliminate exceptionally persistent people spewing pseudo-scientific bullshit. Because they tend to form cults around them, like "flat earthers", "infinite energy generators", "perpetuum mobilers" and so on, and their stuff start to hurt society.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:33:33 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on September 19, 2020, 12:45:33 amA collective of positively charged molecules picked up their electrons and went home. On that day, they were unionized.Tim

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 04:26:37 pm
content: The guy in my psychology class said that there were 4 different personalities in your head. They constantly argued with each others. If one of them won, "sorry, I don't know the answer" might come out from your mouth.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 04:53:08 pm
content: For the record, the number on the floor is quite possibly an unfinished 8. But I don't reallyknowfor sure

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:07:15 pm
content: Its very hard for many people to say "I don't know the answer to that". You see this a lot with religious people. Having an answer to every question is important to them. The veracity of the answer is far less important. For some it is completely irrelevant. Study of the mind seems to indicate that useful reasoning takes place at a subconscious level, and that conscious reasoning just creates post hoc rationalisations for what subconscious areas of the brain come up with. The need to rationalise an answer for every question is driven in the conscious mind, even when the subconscious has come up with garbage for it to work on.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:09:41 pm
content: The guy in my psychology class also said that if there were enough people in one side, the people in the other side would be forced to agree mentally with the other group.What that guy in my class is saying is that if there are a bigger group to say this is a "6" for example then the group who say this is a "9", the group who say this is a "9" will be forced mentally to agree that this is indeed a "6".The group who will say "I don't know" maybe too small in size. So, they will not say anything.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 19, 2020, 12:23:21 amBecause Boomers told us that we all are important and our opinions matter, as if they actually did.Because Boomers told us that everything can be figured out by Logic™ and Science™ and so we do, using you and your problem as a guinea pig, thank you for your continued and enthusiastic participation in the Scientific Method™.Because Boomers told us that training matters less than Creativity© and Learning How To Learn©.Because Boomers told us that Open Debate® and Meritocracy® ensures that the best opinions ultimately win, so a few bad opinions can, should and will be tolerated, and they will inevitably be few.Something more from fellow Millennials?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:35:19 pm
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on September 19, 2020, 05:09:41 pmOne group is frequently intimidated into agreeing with another group, even when they know they are wrong. Never underestimate the power of persuasion when an argument is backed by unpleasant consequences.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:51:53 pm
content: It doesn't have to be intimidation, for social animals like man there's a natural tendency to want to 'fit in', so people will completely unconsciously tend to agree with the majority opinion. There are, of course, some who will not automatically agree with the majority opinion. Some of this group are people who like to think for themselves before coming to a conclusion which ultimately may or may not agree with the majority opinion, and there are others who always just simply disagree for its own sake. Depending on one's own want, the latter are either iconoclasts, have oppositional defiance disorder, or are 'wee gobshites'.

author: Fixpoint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 06:06:54 pm
content: Is this thread a self-referential example for what the OP complained about? Oh dear.People want to be admired, people want to be envied. And they see Instructibles.com and YouTube as the perfect means for that. Not StackOverflow, because there you need real expertise to be successful. On YouTube, in contrast, it is enough to be an arrogant, egotistical loudmouth (for guys) or pretty (for girls).So, this sometimes leads to extremes like a teenage noob giving a "tutorial" for what she just "learned" a minute ago. In reality, the person didn't understand anything which shows in the tutorial which teaches wrong things. On top of that, I once read an article written by "some guy" who opined that one of the best thing a beginner can do is "teaching". What!? Yes, it was probably a self-referential thing. Again.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 06:19:17 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on September 19, 2020, 04:53:08 pmWhy do we assume that it was a number?

author: RenThraysk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 06:55:18 pm
content: It does save time.A good set of reference books is quite valuable still, when you just want a single reliable answer.Though there are worse things out there that make me despair more for society.https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a33547137/why-some-people-think-2-plus-2-equals-5/

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 08:20:01 pm
content: For the younger generation, it has to do with social networks. I started using the internet in the 1.0 era, I've read the netiquette. Now I see young children pushing mommy's phone before they can speak properly. They start striving for facebook likes at 8. At 10-12 children start having burnouts and getting suicidal, if their photo of their new shoe doesn't get enough likes. It is a drug, they need attention.On an N to 1 e-conversation, I'm not going to say that I dont know the answer. It is a waste of bytes. If the same happens on a meeting at work, I'm not going to say that, probably I say 'it depends' or say how can we find out the answer.

author: ucanel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 08:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 19, 2020, 01:03:41 amLemone juice made this thief invisible:https://youtu.be/oFL5NoM9GVE

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:14:39 pm
content: Quote from: Fixpoint on September 19, 2020, 06:06:54 pmPeople who recently acquired knowledge, in my experience, are more likely to be able to explain it to someone unfamiliar in a way he can grasp quickly. Also, you improve your own understanding of a subject if you explain it to others.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on September 19, 2020, 09:14:39 pmOften if I want to cement my knowledge of something just learned, or if I'm having difficulty grasping that 'last bit' of something I'm currently learning, I'll give (often out loud) an imaginary lecture to a student(s) on the subject. Getting it into a form suitable for communicating it cogently to someone else (even if imaginary) helps to put all the pieces together in a logical order and structure - it also reveals what you do understand and what you need to work on more.

author: Edison
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:36:09 pm
content: If a question develops that I don't know the answer to in the interview, I have no problem saying - I don't know, I don't know the answer.But if I'm not explicitly asked, I have no idea why I should intervene in the topic and pat myself on the back with the fact that I don't know the answer, I simply don't interfere in the debate, whether verbal or written, when I have nothing to enrich it.

author: Fixpoint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on September 19, 2020, 09:14:39 pmWait, you are talking about "people who recently acquired knowledge". Note that I was talking about "beginners". You may have acquired knowledge recently, but that does not mean that you are a beginner! You could be an expert who learned something new.If I really are a beginner, teaching doesn't work because I don't understand the details, don't know the background, cannot explain the WHY (only the WHAT), will probably explain it the wrong way without noticing it, I don't know and don't see the relationships to other things which may be very important, etc etc etc. Bad idea.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:42:39 pm
content: I am guiltyWhen colleagues ask me a question I do not know the correct answer to I do say something.I always answer with : "42".

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 09:59:03 pm
content: Sometimes both parties ARE right. Defining the scope of a question can be quite difficult, bordering on impossible without pages of details. Until that is done, you can't say one view is right vs the other.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 11:11:27 pm
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on September 19, 2020, 05:09:41 pmSo to summarise the obvious, quiet but confident humility is in short supply.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 12:29:01 am
content: QuoteEver tried re-reading the stuff you write?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 01:09:18 am
content: It annoys me when someone posts a question about a difficulty they are having with a circuit or whatever, and someone who is a professional with proven expertise in that particular area presents a solution that they themself have used in the past and it is disregarded and the OP pays more attention to all these hair brained ideas that are presented that are way off track. Nowadays if I know a solution I present it and if they ignore it in favour of unworkable ideas i just let them crash and burn.

author: Fredderic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 01:26:17 am
content: Another element of this question, is stating opinion or supposition as fact. For far too many people, if they think it, it must be true.If asked a question, or I think I have valid input, I'll speak up. But I do try to prefix my response with a reasonable assessment of my certainty. I'll use phrases like, "I think" (some self-assembly was involved), "I'm pretty sure" (a fair bit of self-assembly and/or double-checking was involved), "I believe" (aka "I heard from a reasonably reliable source"), and the likes.I think "I don't know the answer" is often a cop-out, what they really mean is "I can't be bothered / I don't care". But if it really is the answer, then you should own it, something like, "That's not really something I've needed to deal with" is a good less "I don't care" type alternative. Personally, I go for my best guess, prefacing it with something like, "Possibly", or or "I think perhaps maybe" (ie. sprinkle on uncertainties to taste).What I also hate, is the "you just don't like to be wrong". Well, duh… does ANYONE? I mean, sure, some people just like the sound of their own voice, so any answer is a good answer, to them, but still… A better question is why don't you like being wrong. Is it ego, or simply because you'd rather be right. Unfortunately, it seems to be ego for most people. In the latter case, however, and this is something I've found a lot of people have a hard time understanding — except those more scientifically inclined — is that if I am proven wrong, that only means I've learnt something new, and that's quite often even more exciting than actually having the right answer (which is just a nice minor affirmation). So again, eschewing "Sorry, I don't know the answer" in favour of showing interest and offering up what I can, gives me a foot in the door for learning something new, and Ialways(well,almostalways) prefer that over holding my piece and remaining ignorant. It does seem a distressing minority who hate been wrong (and youshouldhate being wrong) less than they hate being a fool (not to be confused with being made out to be a fool, but that goes back to ego, and properly stating certainties).This forum is an example… If I offer up some advice, like this very post here, it'll automatically subscribe me for further responses. I put forth my opinion, and now I've got my food in the door for future learnings. Sure, I can hang around regardless — just click the Notify button — but doesn't that seem a little more, stalkerish? It's like hanging around near a bunch of people having a conversation, evesdropping…

author: Fredderic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 01:30:18 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on September 20, 2020, 01:09:18 amProblem there, is it can often be difficult for the inexperienced person to know who is experienced, and who is not. And they're often using enthusiasm, rather than serenity, as their guide. (After all, they're enthusiastic about getting a response!)

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 01:30:54 am
content: Hey, OP, aren't you the guy who went bonkers over Dave having written a book on dating, over the concept of dating and why it was an absolutely abhorrent thing and wouldn't be told otherwise by anybody else, to the point that you said you were going to request the thread to be locked? Yeah, I remember you. Funny to see you here.Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 20, 2020, 12:29:01 am+1

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 02:00:20 am
content: No, no, noooo, it's a lowercase'g'!!!(Font selection isn't working... but you get the idea...)

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 06:01:28 am
content: Quote from: george.b on September 20, 2020, 01:30:54 amAnd?

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 06:08:14 am
content: This is a guy watching TV. You can see the TV on the left. The head and the neck on the right.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 06:10:13 am
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on September 20, 2020, 06:08:14 amThat's quite obscure, and not easily recognisable. Have you taken some drugs?

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 07:00:20 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on September 19, 2020, 09:42:39 pmFor me the default don't-know answer is 3.Reason for this is obvious. Observe that both π and e round to 3. If our knowledge is only limited to 1 significant number, we can treat these numbers as equal, and therefore conclude π=e=3. This knowledge greatly simplifies the biggest math & physics questions we ever face today. /sContext:https://twitter.com/memecrashes/status/1193134112753750017https://twitter.com/memecrashes/status/1075736364883296256

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:42:22 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 19, 2020, 09:27:43 pmVery true, I do that too. At work i will explain a problem to a colleague in the hope they could help despite the fact that I know they don't have a clue what I am on about but I find the solution in explaining it to them. I have heard someone acll this talk to thinker or apparently in the software world it is rubberdukking. You tell the rubber duck on your desk.

author: Fixpoint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:54:39 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 20, 2020, 08:42:22 amYes, but this has nothing to do with what I said. You are talking about how to arrive at a good understanding of something. I am talking about a beginner "teaching" others which in reality means teaching wrong things because he/she doesn't have a clue of anything AND cannot see it because of a lack of understanding and knowledge!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:56:36 am
content: I was replying more to the person that quoted you.

author: Fixpoint
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 09:47:54 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 20, 2020, 08:56:36 amYes, I know, I thought I could subsume my answers just with a quote of you

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 10:17:47 am
content: Quote from: Fixpoint on September 19, 2020, 06:06:54 pmWhile I know exactly the sort of person you are talking about, the guy who taught me most when I was learning UNIX system support, strongly believed that the best way of knowing you understand something is to try teaching it to someone else.And I believe he was right. I used this method numerous times, just preparing to teach an imaginary person what I’ve learnt, meant it soon became obvious what parts I didn’t properly understand.

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 10:57:32 am
content: OP claims (just like the golden ear vinyl audiobrigade) his opinions as facts and says metrics doesnt matter.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/film-colour-reproduction-is-way-better-than-digital/msg3196632/#msg3196632All while making a post while crying about the unwashed and millenials like a child and how your passing will the leave the world in decay, while the General Chat will only lose a troll.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 11:05:35 am
content: Why are all your threads rants?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 11:10:29 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on September 20, 2020, 12:29:01 amFunnily enough the result is awfully close to the subject of various rants. Just someone who loves to hear himself talk while almost entirely ignoring any input.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 03:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2020, 11:05:35 amFocus on being the best person you can, never mind anyone else. Each one of us has a list of personal quirks long enough to keep us occupied with self-improvement for a lifetime. When you are spotless and without fault, you can come and counsel me on how I should act. There's NO shortage of rants on EEVblog, except I don't go around replying to them and pointing out the fault of others, as you seem intent on doing, to what end, who can know.Reflect inward, try your best, as we all do, and we all mistakes including yourself, so bear that in mind before becoming too condemning.Lest you choose to ignore the fact, you seem to have enough aggressive or short tempered posts of your own, at a cursory glance:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;u=134108Thanks.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 04:03:33 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 20, 2020, 03:30:49 pmYes, he can be a crotchety git at times, but at least has the merit that he can also be occasionally witty and sometimes insightful beyond the bleedin' obvious.At least he doesn't make the precondition that someone else has to be perfect and fault free before he regards them as worthy of being permitted to indulge in criticism or questioning of any kind. Remember, it's "take the plank out of your own eye first before you take the splinter out of someone else's", not "insist on perfect ocular health in everybody else before even permitting someone else to enquire about your eyesight".Anyway, you dodged the question.Whyiseverything you initiate a rant of some sort? Why have you never or seldom, as far as I've noticed, ever started something about electronicsper se, but seem to be serial starter of rants and threads that are likely to be contentious?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 07:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fixpoint on September 20, 2020, 08:54:39 amBut doing this on the internet is the fastest way for this beginner to learn what he is lacking. The way he words it like he is actually "laying down the truth?" Acting like he's a teacher when he is struggling to learn? You assume it's because he thinks he knows it all.But when dealing with a complex subject matter, adding "I think," "maybe," "as I understand," every other sentence can make an already complex post near unreadable. Sometimes a beginner is just stating things to lay it all out, so that someone can correct him if any of his understanding is incorrect. You see the 6.Ask a question on the internet, and you get 100 replies where 99% is the BS this thread is about. Esp if it's a subtle nuance and you lack the technical jargon, it might even be difficult to explain what your question is. So most of the repliers will not even bother to read your question and just hit on key words. Then "oh yeah, I worked with this 30 years ago, and blah blah" nothing to do with your question at all. Or they will post a verbatim answer that was the first thing you had already looked up or googled. And another person saying it copypasta won't help you.Oftentimes, the quickest way to get the answer is to post your understanding as facts as if you are teaching someone. This details the logical steps in your understanding. Then you get an amazingly high signal to noise ratio where 99/100 replies are correcting where you went wrong quite succinctly. As long as you can handle the occasional smartass calling you an idiot, as long as they explain exactly why you are an idiot, they are actually helping you. So this can also be a 9.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 07:47:42 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 20, 2020, 04:03:33 pmSorry, I don't know the answer you're after.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 07:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 20, 2020, 07:47:42 pmAh, bit short on introspection are we?

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 20, 2020, 07:59:38 pmSorry, I don't know the answer you're after.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 20, 2020, 03:30:49 pmIt turns out you can't exactly say sorry either. Demanding perfection before accepting comments is silly. It's not only obviously unattainable, but the best tutors I know are acutely aware of their own fallibility.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:09:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2020, 08:06:40 pmThanks for your feedback, I shall forward it to the relevant department.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 20, 2020, 08:09:36 pmYour attempts at clever responses don't disguise you're still dodging the question.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2020, 08:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2020, 08:16:44 pmWhy do you think it is you feel this way?