Unboxing WOW - The coolest bit of kit in my lab - Microtest 6632 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 11:12:38 am
content: The Microtest 6632 Precision Impedance Analyser. An unedited unboxing and power up video.https://www.microtest.com.tw/product_details.php?p_id=128

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 07:07:29 am
content: I've always wondered how much difference the maximum voltage makes for typical X7R 100nF = 0.1µF multi-layer ceramic capacitors.That is, if you have 3.3V or 5V supply rail with 100nF X7R supply bypass MLCCs, how much difference does it make whether they're limited to 16V/25V or 50V?Am I just paranoid when defaulting to 50V X7R for my supply bypass caps, or is there actually a benefit wrt. capacitance, considering the 3.3V or 5V bias voltage?Also comparison to C0G/NP0 would be nice, as a baseline of sorts. Unless I'm mistaken, they don't just have a better temperature coefficient, but also the effect of the bias voltage is smaller. I could be wrong, though.Pretty please? 😺

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 07:51:32 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 29, 2025, 07:07:29 amYep, possible, and was one of my video ideas.I'd have to order specific selected parts for this, not something I can do properly with junkbox parts.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 08:01:16 am
content: The voltage dependence of some X7R capacitors would definitely be a point to show.Knowing which parts one actually has would definitely help. A few different to compare would also be nice - they are likely not all the same.It would also be interesting to set the decoupling with 2, maybe 3 parallel capacitors. Because of the slightly limited frequency range one may want a bit larger capacitors and a bit more distance than one would now have with modern chips. For the test one could likely mount a strip PCB with a small cut out in the THT part atachment.Something likea) 100 nF close and some 1 or 2 cm awayb) 100 nF + 1 µF in parallel (the test system would replace the chip to decouple - so have the small cap there).c) 100 nF + 1 µF + 100 µF electrolytic in parallel (the test system would replace the chip to decouple - so have the small cap there).The frequency range may be a bit limited to test some coax or other cable (maybe with a rather long length) - this would be more a test with a conventional VNA.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 10:34:45 am
content: FYI, I had forgotten that my Bode 100 analyser has the same SMD and through hols adapters as the Microtest. Not nearly as good, and not 4 terminal, but it does go to 50MHz.Tried to measure the power plane capacitance on a 4 layer board, whcih was about 2nF. Impedance low just a smidge under 50MHz, so just a line on the Microtest. But still interesting.Might try another multilayer board tomorrow.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 12:33:52 pm
content: 10 MHz are a bit low for a mulilayer, but one could show the principle issues are low frequency with a more older style 1 sided PCB and spacing more typical for THT parts.The bode100 analyzer can do similar things, but with less precission / resolution.The tests shown with the cystal may be too high in impedance. For the resonance peak the scan speed / number of test frequencies can be just too high. It is easy to miss the very narrow resonance, and parasitic capacitance may be enough to not see the jump in the phase.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 12:58:08 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 29, 2025, 12:33:52 pmYes, I did this after the video. Just narrowed the range to get greater frequency resolution and it pops out just fine.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 09:05:11 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2025, 07:51:32 amSurely no hurry here. I suspect it might well fit in with DC and AC tutorials and as an in-depth followup to #859 Bypass capacitor tutorial (which is old, but still, has 827k views, so certainly is considered useful by many); i.e. from a circuit design tutorial point of view, proving via measurement what is important and what is insignificant.JLCPCB, PCBWay, et cetera has made circuit design so easy for hobbyists, helping them avoid copying stupid useless stuff is a good deed in my book.As a junkbox part test, it would be nice to see if some of the cargo-cult designs like using both a 100nF and a 4.7µF X7R ceramic cap has any difference to a 4.7µF X7R cap alone. (Essentially, a differential test, to see if adding that 100nF one makes a notable difference; I do believe it does not, if it is same size and same dielectric; only the same difference as replacing the 4.7µF with 4.8µF has. Vary the caps, to see what kind of differences one can expect from one part to another, and compare to using two.) You could use two straight (thick) single-strand copper wires as bus bars, for varying the cap-to-cap distance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 09:50:30 am
content: I got a decent result with the 50MHz Bode 100 on an 8 layer board with a 13nF power plane.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 10:02:29 am
content: The point would not be so much showing a good solution, but showing how a not so good one fails or has it limitations. As the frequency is limtited one may have to build larger. A point would be seeing the CLC resonance from 2 bypass caps in parallel with a little more than typical wire in between.For the impedance it could also be interesting to show the inductance with some wire wound resistors, and maybe spiral cut THT thin film resistors. When looking at details resistors (especially those away from some 20-300 ohms) show some frequency dependence.Another part to look at could be ferrite beads - they have a somewhat interesting impedance curve in the measurable frequency range.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 12:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 30, 2025, 10:02:29 am😟I disagree. For us hobbyists, that is like telling not to make a shitty circuit: more like an admonishment than guidance. I believe (but could obviously be wrong!) that Dave's tutorial/beginner/basics videos do so well because he's upbeat, and doesn't talk down; because he says "do this, because it works" and simply notes where the traps for the young players are, without focusing on those overmuch.Showing the reasonable solution (say, single 4.7µF X7R as a bypass cap as often used for MCUs) and explaining why it is so by comparing it to the oft-copied cargo-cult patterns (0.1µF X7R + 4.7µF X7R), leads to better hobbyist designs because it is simple, encouraging, interesting, but very easy to understand.Of course, with such a nice bit of kit, it would be shame if Dave did one video only..

author: darrellg
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 05:22:55 pm
content: That's a LOT smaller than the gigantic HP 4194a that I used to use. That thing was a beast.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:21:24 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 30, 2025, 12:27:34 pmOf cause it would make sense to also show the correct / good way for decoupling. However the difference between a really good modern solution and just a 100 nF capacitor would mainly be visible beyond 10 MHz and thus not in the range of this impedance meter. With critical modern parts, like an FPGA or fast ADC one would likely need a meter with more BW.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 08:07:02 pm
content: It would also be useful to measure “worse” MLCC capacitors such as Z5U, which also are used as bypass caps.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 09:06:10 pm
content: Z5U is worse when it comes to the DC bias effect and the temperature dependence. For the Rf properties there may not be much difference to X7R. There could even be benefits from a smaller form factor.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 09:52:49 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 30, 2025, 09:06:10 pmMy assumption is that the smaller dimensions with higher dielectric constant would give better RF performance at low DC voltage, but the stronger voltage co-efficient tends to defeat that at high DC bias in bypass applications.The comparison is complicated: there is not a way to infer dimensions from the stated voltage rating, which is just a guarantee against part failure. Of course, one expects a higher voltage rating to mean a thicker dielectric.This makes the experimental comparison of X7R and Z5U popular capacitors interesting, especially for larger capacitance values that require non-linear dielectrics for sensible case sizes.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 11:47:52 pm
content: Cool kit. But a bit of googling revealed that there are too many zeros for this to be of direct interest to me. Maybe when it reaches boat anchor age.

author: the Chris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2025, 01:40:37 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on May 30, 2025, 11:47:52 pmIn todays terms, that would be a Solartron 1260 (or 1255). I was lucky enough to get one of those recently, but I just started to use it and I need to write a driver for it to make use of its full potential as I don't have the original, dongle protected software.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2025, 07:20:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 30, 2025, 12:58:08 amThat neatly demonstrates why I don't watch unboxing videos.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 08:14:20 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 07, 2025, 07:20:22 am34k people thought otherwise.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 09:28:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 09, 2025, 08:14:20 amNo accounting for taste; many people watch darts and snooker matches, or pictures of cats for that matter.How many people thought it was a good used of their remaining life?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 01:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 09, 2025, 09:28:50 amDude, I've watched paint dry in utter fascination. Granted, it wasn't wall paint but oil on canvas, but still. I think it was time well spent, too.Just because you do not appreciate it, does not mean there is nothing worthy of appreciation in there. Your interests and focus differ, that's all.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 02:31:31 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 09, 2025, 01:54:20 pmI imagine it was oil paint you had carefully placed on a canvas, which would be differentOf course it is my view, but how many other people have a similar view?I regard it as beneficial to all to, as the old advice goes, tell them what you are going to tell them, tell them, tell them what you have told them.That enables an audience to select "good" videos.That encourages the creator to work outwhythey are doing it, and either concentrate on that or abandon the effort.I do understand the creator may not want to do that, since it might reduce clickbait income and/or they might not get so many egoboos nor bronze stars for effort - but does anybody else care about that? latest asinine example is that I leave a few restaurant reviews on google (almost all complementary). Gurgle is now encouraging me to reward myself with stars showing how many reviews I've made. There are better ways of getting a dopamine hit!

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 04:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 09, 2025, 02:31:31 pmNot me. It was my granddad, who was a painter and a teacher (including of arts), teaching me some key concepts and techniques when I was 14 or so.It was about the behaviour of the paint on canvas, too. Oil paints don't change that much when they dry, but you can definitely control human perception via layering, surface texture, paint opacity, limiting paint layer mixing, and so on.Quote from: tggzzz on June 09, 2025, 02:31:31 pmDoes it matter, if the people having the other view number in the tens of thousands, as evinced by the view count?I mean, your view is just as valid as everyone elses is. It is just that Dave making such videos is found useful and interesting by many, which makes your view (that they are neither useful nor interesting) irrelevant.It is like someone saying ammonium chloride candy (salmiakki) should be banned, because it tastes awful. Ireallylike it, and will fight you if you try to stop me from buying them. Yet, I am fully aware that to most people, it just tastes yukky-salty. I don't trick people into eating it, and when offering, I specifically tell what to expect and that most people don't like it. As it is not a health hazard, and enough people like it, it makes sense to sell salmiakki candy.Quote from: tggzzz on June 09, 2025, 02:31:31 pmI sincerely believe the title, "Unboxing", is descriptive. It is a first look at it.Now, I think I do understand your reason for not watching such: they do not go into the details or experiments/measurements that you find interesting.That is fine, and I kinda expect someone with experience in proper test equipment to feel that way. I can definitely understand that, because I feel similarly for most programming-related videos, blogs, and articles: I need ACM-level rigor and something actuallynew and usefulto get interested.Personally, my test equipment experience is very limited, so I enjoy looking at unboxing videos of equipment I didn't know about, and then suggest what to test with it if something comes to my mind. I can also imagine how test equipment people knowing about this device (or similar devices) but not having one, like having the first look at it.As to the social gamification, I try to avoid those as I'm way too easily manipulated through them. Knowing you're being manipulated does not make those any less effective, because they bypass our conscious mind, and go directly for the unconscious and limbic system.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 06:51:05 pm
content: "Unboxing" is indeed a very, usefully, accurate word to have in the title.I like opening Christmas and birthday presents (more so when I was younger), but I would never dream of making a video of it, let alone showing that video to other people. And the concept of such people gettingsecond-handpleasure from it is justbizarre.While I would prefer people to do something new and interesting with equipment (or software, the only difference being the mass), I can quite understand someone doing something that is "merely" new and different to them. Such "beginner" videos/articlesdohave value. But opening a box, turning it on, saying "it is great", and stopping - that's just taking the piss. as is the concept of a UK TV programme:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogglebox my view of reality TV was formed in1968with the dystopian warning TV drama "Year of the Sex Olympics". Readhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Year_of_the_Sex_Olympicsand weep. Nigel Kneale (who invented the Daleks and Quatermass amongst other things) was right

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 08:50:56 pm
content: I have to agree with tggzzz.Unboxing is just unboxing. People like me and probably many others are interested in what this machine can do. The same applies for the 12 bit oscilloscope unboxings you did. You've shown as a working oscilloscope. That's it. I would like/prefer to to see some real experiments exploring the limits of the equipment under test.But I understand that setting up such experiments isn't easy, very time consuming and you have to keep up with current technology. (In case of the LCR meter I have a hint: GaN based switching power supplies where every pF of stray capacitance and every nH of stray inductance must be accounted for.)You can try to measure the ESR of this small beast:https://product.tdk.com/en/search/capacitor/ceramic/mlcc/info?part_no=C5750C0G3A333G280KC

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 09:18:33 pm
content: It would definitely be a pity if the unboxing video was the only one Dave did about this!I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your preferences, you just don't like unboxing videos.I am saying there are enough of us hobbyists (and possibly others) who do, making it worthwhile for Dave to do a quick unboxing video every now and then.I do not believe Dave would be willing/able to do more in-depth videos even if he stopped making unboxing videos –– do correct me on this, if I'm wong, Dave! –– soobjectingto Dave making unboxing videos seems non-useful to me.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 09:21:52 pm
content: Before I retired, we had decent test fixtures to measure SMT components, and that one isn't particularly tiny.TheQ> 1000 spec is measured at 1 MHz for C < 1 nF, and at 1 kHz for C > 1 nF (from separate document).At 1 kHz, the reactanceXof 33 nF is about 4800 ohms, so the ESR should be < 5 ohms, which should not be hard for a good LCR meter.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 09:38:32 pm
content: QuoteJust take a look at the ESR of the 33 nF C0G capacitor I linked to. I don't think many LCR meters will come up with accurate results.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 09:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on June 09, 2025, 09:38:32 pmBefore I retired, we had several good-hp-and QuadTech (formerly GenRad) meters in this range.Generally, one had to be extra careful when theQapproached 1000.We would refer toXas the majority component, and ESR as the minority component, when evaluating high-Q units.One should be able to tell if this part is truly C0G (Q> 1000), or X7R (Q< 200).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 10:06:09 pm
content: I wonder if there is ever a case where Y5U actually makes more sense to use.Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 09, 2025, 09:18:33 pmHe probably would have done the exact same thing even if the camera were off

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 10:44:03 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 09, 2025, 09:18:33 pmA video can be interesting even if it isn't "in depth" (whatever that might mean). Just showing it doing something realistic (and ideally special in some way or other) would be sufficient.Looking back, I became pissed off with "unboxing videos" long before they were invented as such...In the early 80s Jerry Pournelle used to have a column in Byte magazine where people sent him hardware and software things, he tried to use them, and gave his opinion as to whether they worked and were useful. As his wackypedia article puts it "From the 1970s until the early 1990s, he contributed to the computer magazine Byte, writing from the viewpoint of an intelligent user, with the oft-cited credo, 'We do this stuff so you won't have to.' He created one of the first blogs, entitled "Chaos Manor", ...". Key points were that he put effort intounderstandingthe item,tried to use it, andonly thengave some useful information in a mildly entertaining way.But towards the end Pournelle was merely opening the package and giving his opinion,withoutbothering to think and try. Such unconsidered opinions were trite, boring, and not worth reading.Whether or not it is deliberate, many yootoob "unboxing videos" are like the latter. Alittlemore depth would go a long way towards being as useful as early Chaos Manor articles.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2025, 11:53:03 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on June 09, 2025, 08:50:56 pmAnd that's fine, you don't have the watch, they are labeled clearly in the title. And it's on my 2nd channel.If you want to know why I do them, two reasons:1) There are people that watch them and like them2) I'm unboxing the thing anyway, I might as well turn on the camera and give you my reaction. Easy content, just upload the camera file direct.You aren't losing out by me doing this. I'm not wasting my otherwise valuable time I could be spending making a "real" video.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 12:00:51 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 09, 2025, 09:18:33 pmIt is precisely non-useful.I waste more time reading the complaints and replying to them than making the videoIKNOWsome people don't like unboxing videos, but it's not that many. I'm not going to stop making them just because some people complain.This video had almost 35,000 views, the highest number of views of at last the last 100+ videos on my 2nd channel, with a 97.7% thumbs up ratio (typical for 2nd channel videos). So the vast majority liked it, even if you didn't, and that's fine, that's Youtube.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 01:09:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 10, 2025, 12:00:51 amI don't remember anybody objecting to Dave making an unboxing video. I think videos that unbox and nothing else are a waste of my life, but that says nothing about Dave's life. That is, after all, his choice.I'm not sure of the significance of "2nd channel", but if that video is the most popular on that channel then that is useful information for me.Dave has produced many actively useful videos with decent content. I would like to think they are more popular over a longer period than a mere unboxing video.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:15:16 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 10, 2025, 01:09:44 amI'm trying to explain to you how it's NOT a waste of my time because it's literally me just turning the camera to show something I would have done anyway if the camera wasn't on.And there is not video editing, just upload the file and release.And if there is an audience for this stuff then why not just do it?QuoteRead the channel description:QuoteQuoteNope. I can put in 100 times more time and effort than an unboxing and get way less views.Welcome to Youtube.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 07:28:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 10, 2025, 03:15:16 amSounds like a rather minimal overhead exercise.QuoteLooks like a no-brainer to me.QuoteAin't that the truth.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 08:41:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 10, 2025, 03:15:16 amYeahI live in hope, but my hopes are often dashed.Thanks for confirming my opinion of 99.9% of stuff on yoootoob. Now if someone invented a quick way of spotting the 0.1%, they would be sitting on a goldmine.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 01:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 09, 2025, 04:13:54 pmUnfortunately, that is not true. It is probably the single worst candy causing high blood pressure.(I love it. But have to pass now, due to health issues. Which sucks.)

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 04:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on June 12, 2025, 01:24:19 pmActually, it's theliquorice(glycyrrhiza glabraplant extract) that tends to do that, not so much salmiakki, unless your blood pressure is also sensitive to salt, say Finnish health experts. We do consume quite a lot of the stuff. It's theglycyrrhizinthat is risky, especially so for pregnant women, because there are indications it increases attention disorders if ingested during pregnancy; in addition to increasing blood pressure for some, it can also reduce blood kalium levels, so anyone with kalium issues better steer clear of any liquorice too.That is, if your doctor has said you need to control and/or cut back on salt intake, that definitely includes salmiakki.Blood pressure sensitivity to salts (NaCl and NH₄Cl in particular) and glycyrrhizin varies a lot, so salmiakki is definitely not safe for everyone; but it also does not necessarily raise your blood pressure. Liquorice candy is just as bad/risky in this regard.Compare to aspartame. It metabolizes to phenylalanine, which is a necessary amino acid our bodies cannot produce itself, and needs to obtain from our food. However, children who suffer from phenylketonuria (0.04% of children in Turkey; 0.004% on average across the world; 0.001% in Finland) can get brain damage from the excess phenylalanine, because their bodies cannot hydroxylase it into tyrosine, another standard amino acid. (This is why you see the "contains a source of phenylalanine" or similar labels in some products.) Phenylalanine also crosses the blood–brain barrier, converting to L-DOPA in the brain, a precursor to dopamine, norephrine/noradrenaline, and epinephrine/adrenaline. If you get a surge of it (like quickly drinking a zero-sugar soft drink), your dopamine cycle can be disturbed –– again, does not affect everybody, only some; and even then depends on the rate and amount ––, and cause a headache or even trigger migraine. Yet, for most, aspartame is pretty much safe.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 09:38:40 pm
content: Great info, but I feel you are saying "its not everclear that is unhealthy, its alcohol".Salzige Heringe is 6% licorice root extract, which is 10-20% glycrrhizin. Lets say worst case you eat an entire 200g bag, you'd end up ingesting 1.2-2.4g of glycrrhizin, an enormous amount.And its not just a problem for people who already have high blood pressure:Quotehttps://examine.com/supplements/licorice/?show_conditions=trueQuotehttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38246526/Sucks because otherwise licorice has a lot of benefits.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 02:18:23 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 12, 2025, 09:38:40 pmNope, see here: Finnishmicaro glycyrrhizin-free salmiakkidoes not contain any liquorice. Nor dothese salmiakki candies.The pure white powder (E510 or "food-grade ammonium chloride") is available online, for examplehere. Both E510 (pure ammonium chloride) and the mix of ammonium chloride and dry liquorice powder is called "salmiakki", so one does need to be careful.