Where can I buy radioactive isotape with higher power? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: jotif57142
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 05:09:55 pm
content: Hi guys, my friend and I want to get some Gamma source for experienments, but all we can find are something less than 1 uCi, what we want are more than 1 Ci, can anyone tell me the way to get it? Thanks.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 05:19:25 pm
content: You can get radioisotopes of all different types from Oak Ridge National Lab.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 12, 2019, 05:19:25 pmNo, actually, unless you have a NRC licence, you certainly cannot.You can get a Corelle dinner plate with the bright orange glaze at a flea market. The glaze is Uranium oxide, and a 1" chunkwill give you 5000 counts/minute.Jon

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:12:11 pm
content: That was my point. If you should be handling a 1 curie (=3.7 * 10^10 decays/second) source ORNL will sell it to you. If not, then you shouldn't be handling it.

author: ceoxrad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:23:03 pm
content: If you are asking here where to find it you definetly shouldn't handle it. BTW what are these experiments you mention?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:29:56 pm
content: Quote from: jotif57142 on November 12, 2019, 05:09:55 pmThis is one of those situations where needing to ask the question disqualifies you from being told the answer. If you were adequately qualified to safely handle and use a 37 GBq gamma source then you would already know the answer.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:39:09 pm
content: Do you play baseball for the Springfield Isotots or something?If you had to ask that question, you don't need that material.Steve

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 06:43:43 pm
content: One would hope a government agency employee would know how to spell "Isotope", and not title a post with "Isotape".Does Dave et al., Ever publish IPs? I'd love to know on this one...Considering some of the things I've seen on forums ie, years ago, a poster who called him/her/itself "Archimedes Plutonium", I wonder if some of these posts are long running psych experiments, or some one's idea of a really bad joke.I called APs employer based on his IP once. Turns out it was a really big US Ivy League university, but not the one listed in WIKI for him. Their IT specialist told me they do not censor their staff, despite numerous requests to close down that one. In fact he cried "Academic Freedom" and said he would call MY academic employer back at the time to question my ethics for asking. Hence, "Long Running Experiment".Steve

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 07:21:50 pm
content: -------Quote from the Big Bang episode, The Prestidigitation Approximation:Rajesh: Why so glum, chum?Sheldon: Apparently you can't hack into a government supercomputer and then try to buy uranium without the Department of Homeland Security tattling to your mother.

author: Teledog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 05:12:27 am
content: Check out the EBR-1 in Idaho (closed for the season)Your counter will go crazy on the the one reactor turbine (caged) just outside the facility.Free & interesting tours!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Breeder_Reactor_I

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 09:15:56 am
content: i bet ownership of that device would be a cradle to grave affair with goverment accountingI would imagine you think you found something amazing that needs some strong radiation source to test, but good luck because thats material someone will consider worthy of a dirty bomb or assassination (depending on isotope).. would not be surprised if you need some kind of 'security contract' (permission to board for agent smith and have his lackey sleep over) to have it on premises now adays. Of course it can be supposedly handled under conventional industrial procedures for rad testing, sterilization, etc, but I bet there is something 'stinky' going on for national security reasons.Don't listen to the idiots that think you need intrinsic knowledge, after all this could be part of a business plan write up (for god sakes we need better industry), but if you are not a scared terrorist then you might want to call a actual vendor and ask how the process goes. You probably need a business to begin with. I think its kinda rare for someone to just think of a awesome process and business that totally depends on the radiation source. Could be though, that maybe calibrations are just too expensive and someone is gouging and some fine equipment needs to be calibrated at low cost rather then being shaken down by metrological bandits. It does seem that business might flow in if you have a strong radiation source available for cheap testing or calibration of whatever. I don't know how you would advertise though, its like "I got this field here... can you do anything with it?" What are you gonna do cold call different businesses known to use radioactive equipment that requires calibration and hope you make money back?like a industrial kick starter ? under cutting cal labs ?problem is probably trust, because the equipment that needs these kinds of calibrations is typically so expensive that their main concern is fear the sensor is not reading correctly.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 10:42:32 am
content: First post on the forum... funny name... asking for radioactive stuffs... says it's for me and my friends "experiment"... spelling the name wrong... says they are in the US... guys here don't trust...… it doesn't look good brother...

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 01:28:53 pm
content: Tips@fbi.gov the bureau of "Free Beer and Isotopes" email for tips on how to acquire said isotopes.

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 03:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: ConKbot on November 13, 2019, 01:28:53 pm*Isotapes

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 03:41:17 pm
content: Can't wait for someone to come and ask how they can get ahold of enriched uranium.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 03:42:19 pm
content: Who cares if it's banned?Assuming it is, dunno, IANAL.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 03:43:14 pm
content: True fact, certain brands of packing tape generate weak x-rays when pulled off certain surfaces in a vacuum... Researchers in the US and Russia independently discovered this. So if he would have asked for Xsotape....Steve

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 03:47:30 pm
content: Read up on David Charles Hahn, and his backyard EPA Superfund site if you need an idea of why large scale home nuclear reactions can be a bad idea...EDIT, Take a look at Slide 14 in this publication:https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1121/ML11210B521.pdfSteve

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 05:09:08 pm
content: Just for the hell of it, I did some back of the envelope calculations as to the possible level of lethality of a 1 curie gamma source.A 1 Curie (37 GBq) cobalt 60 gamma source would, if unshielded and radiating isotropically, deliver an 8 Sievert dose of radiation into a 70 kg man if the source was held 30 cm in front of their chest for 24 hours. Because I did simple maths there's probably a fudge factor of say 3 either way. That is the effects could be either 3 times higher or three times lower, but as a ballpark figure it's a fair indicator of the radiation dosing risks of a 1 Curie gamma source made using the most popular material for commercial high activity gamma sources,60Co (This source would only contain 840 µg of60Co).A dose of 8 Sv (over a short period of time) is enough to kill a human in short order with 99% probability, a dose of 5 Sv over a short period of time is an LD50/30, that is a dose with a probable lethality of 50% within the next thirty days. So, yeah, this is a dangerously powerful source and would require careful, controlled handling.If you were 300 metres away from the same (unshielded, isotropically radiating) source, it would effectively double your (world average) absorbed dose from background radiation from 3 mSv/year to 6 mSv/year - about the same effect as moving from the UK to Finland.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 05:21:22 pm
content: Certainly, here is how you get it:https://youtu.be/MdSJFrhb-HM

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 05:59:35 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on November 13, 2019, 03:47:30 pmTo be fair, that guy did a lot more wrong than collecting dangerous materials.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 06:39:11 pm
content: But read "The boy electrician" first!!

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 09:27:41 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 12, 2019, 06:12:11 pmOh my god, I missed that he wants 1 Ci in the OP! Obviously either a troll or a complete imbecile. I work at a place that has 1 Ci of Californium, they had to build a separate building for it. It has all sorts of radiation safety alarms and intrusion alarms, only a couple people have clearance to enter the building, and they spend a couple minutes a year cumulatively inside the place. Then, the radioactivity that boils off the Californium is sucked into another building, sorted for isotope and fed into an accelerator.OH, and this is INSIDE a national laboratory which has quite strict security, too! Having 1 Ci around requires somewhere close to the same security as an operating nuclear reactor.Jon

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 10:48:05 pm
content: And here I'am, expecting a thread about extra bright glow-in-the-dark insulation tape.Oh well..

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2019, 11:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on November 13, 2019, 09:27:41 pm\I don't see why a venture capitalist should not be interested in owning such a building if its useful. Maybe someone is just shooting the shit and wanted a quick answer to something dubious.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 01:31:42 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on November 13, 2019, 09:27:41 pmA very different beast is Californium. Assuming you're talking about a252Cf source (the commonest) nearly all the decays are alpha, which you can laugh off with a thick piece of paper for 100% shielding, however you can't laugh off the neutron emission from252Cf. Neutrons are the hardest thing to shield needing lots of material, and have this unpleasant habit of gradually making parts of the exposed shielding itself radioactive. Have some element in the shielding that gets neutron activated to an isotope with a short half life and you can have very radioactive materials on your hands. From what you said about pulling off particular isotopes I presume that this source is being deliberately used to neutron activate other materials, possibly for analysis purposes (that's what your description sounds like).A (principally gamma) emitting60Co source is, only by comparison, quite a pleasant thing to have around and relatively easy to manage. Still fry you if you get it wrong though. Remember that60Co sources are regularly used to sterilise things like single use medical supplies in production line quantities and at production line speed.

author: exmadscientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 05:51:31 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 12, 2019, 05:19:25 pmOr, if your proclivities lean more Eastern Bloc, the Mayak Production Association can supply many nuclear needs, even... unusual... ones.Just be very, very careful if they happen to cancel your source order after starting work on it....

author: aheid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:55:11 am
content: I assume OP missed the u prefix on the second unit.That said I am not qualified to tell if a >1uCi source is safe to handle or if so where one could get one.

author: mjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:46:10 am
content: Easy, just buy the whole banana production of the world for 4 years and you'll have 1Ci of 40K.

author: dicky96
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 09:20:04 am
content: Madame Curie managed to produce strong radioactive sources without much in the way of technology or anywhere to buy one from or anyone's permission to do itMaybe just read up on her and do it the same way she did?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 09:32:57 am
content: QuoteI'm reminded ofhttps://the-mask.fandom.com/wiki/The_Terrible_Twos...ah, the golden age of Cartoon Network...

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 10:50:27 am
content: Quote from: dicky96 on November 14, 2019, 09:20:04 amBonus style points if he dies of aplastic anemia!

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 12:11:13 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on November 12, 2019, 06:43:43 pmYeah, good old Archie Pu and his nemesis Uncle Al. Had a few discussions with him back in the day. Someone said that his job at the university was washing dishes in the cafeteria, not any academic position.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 12:36:41 pm
content: Quote from: dicky96 on November 14, 2019, 09:20:04 amAnd as others said, bonus if you die the same way too.That being said, you don't just produce radioactive elements, you have to get them from somewhere. Which makes we wonder if whatever sources that people used back then are still available to anyone or have been found and are guarded. No idea

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 12:58:40 pm
content: The ultimate source is the Earth, you can get weakly radioactive ore relatively easily.Quote from: jmelson on November 13, 2019, 09:27:41 pmCalifornium is known to cause cancer in the state of California...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 01:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 14, 2019, 12:58:40 pmWater is known to cause cancer in the state of California.Their studies clearly showed that everyone who died from cancer had ingested it before their death.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 06:17:54 pm
content: I suggest a Geiger counter, pick, shovel and a mule to carry supplies and start searching.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:13:58 pm
content: Since Water is known to be a Problem to the State of California, the classic bit of evidence is been posted here since 1997:https://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.htmlIt does mention its use in Nuclear Power Plants..Steve

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:32:24 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on November 14, 2019, 07:13:58 pmIt has to be given to all nuclear plant workers to stop them from dying.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:41:48 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 14, 2019, 07:32:24 pmAlthough, for safety, they sometimes have to boil it and include herbal and hydrocarbon additives.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 14, 2019, 01:31:42 amNo, it is CARIBU at Argonne National Lab., it is to make various short half-life isotopes for acceleration in an ion accelerator (ATLAS). You can get a bunch of different isotopes far off the stability line, but the problem turns out you get a witch's brew of stuff that is hard to filter out to the exact isotope you want to study. So, you end up with as bad as 90% contamination of what you hoped would be a single isotope. And, yes, the shielding is a total nightmare.QuoteQUITE PLEASANT??!!?? Are you kidding? 1 Ci of60Co is also pretty serious stuff, and will cook you in seconds if you are ever exposed to it without the shield.Yes, the sterilizers have massive shielded rooms with a conveyor running around and into the shielded area, and if the conveyor ever jams, it is a huge deal to get the source safed so somebody can run in for a few seconds and knock the jammed carton out of the way.Jon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:21:59 pm
content: Quote from: aheid on November 14, 2019, 07:55:11 amRadioactive sources up to several uCi are quite common in labs that work with nuclear detectors. They are used to make sure detectors are working, as well as providing calibration of energy and efficiency.If sealed, as a Gamma source can be with no trouble, they are pretty safe to handle. Alpha, Beta and fission sources need to be more "open" to avoid absorbing the particles, and are thus moreeasy to damage and lose some of the radioactive material. Therefore, you have to handle them very carefully.All of these things generally require an NRC license to possess. The only things I can think of that you can legally have are the Americium sources in a smoke alarm and pieces of Corelle and similar glazed ceramic plates. I know the level of protection we need to provide here. Safes with 5-number combinations, locked doors, monthly inspections to verify the sources are still here, lead "pigs" and other shielding when carrying sources from room to room, having our rad safety people move a source even to a building across the street, and on and on. And, these are uCi - level sources, not whole Ci level stuff!JonJon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:25:32 pm
content: Quote from: magic on November 14, 2019, 12:36:41 pmYeah, a pitchblende mine, the source for radium ore. Quite nasty stuff, makes Uranium ore look VERY tame by comparison. Miners had really short lives, with lungs filled with radium dust.Jon

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: dicky96 on November 14, 2019, 09:20:04 amYeah, she didn't end well either.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 08:40:30 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on November 14, 2019, 08:08:24 pmLearn to readeverythingin front of you, or you will be condemned to jump to conclusions (and it's a long swim back from Conclusions, as Milo will tell you).

author: DBecker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 12:29:16 am
content: Just a note that the original poster has a post count that remains at '1'.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 10:02:06 am
content: Quote from: DBecker on November 16, 2019, 12:29:16 amMaybe he succeeded in finding his ‘tape, and now gloze in the duck.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 11:04:44 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 16, 2019, 10:02:06 amLuminous duck tape?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 12:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 16, 2019, 11:04:44 amIs that luminous tape for ducks, or tape for luminous ducks?If the latter, I can quite see why you might need to tape them down (before they mutate into zombie killer ducks) and whathaveyou been feeding them?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 12:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 16, 2019, 10:02:06 amWhy would he do that?He's not a New Zealander!PS :- Sorry to make "fn" of you, Kiwis, but the phrase had a touch of the "land of the long white cloud" to me!

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 02:52:12 pm
content: Does Luminous tape made by a Duck count?See attached.Steve

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 07:51:50 pm
content: No, Duck Tape is to repair Sticky Beaks.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 02:46:09 am
content: Hmm, that surely would help when you're walking a dark road, at night or strolling through the park. Fear of the duck.Tim