Possibly under 24$ Diy washing machine  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 05:10:42 pm
content: All people want washing machine ! if under 24$ homeless also will ask for 1i have come up with a design . It will be initially a panda mini wash machine like .Planning to use some containers as tubsPlanning to use had drill motor 2$1) need a to and fro agitator circuit for the motor , i think it is ac motorbattery powered drills are too expensive2) how to prevent the tub from leaking ?any small set of washers will help ?

author: divelectservices
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 05:19:06 pm
content: What the hell would a homeless person do with a washing machine?Even if they did have a place to plug it in, good working used machines are available for free from a lot of sources in most cities.They would be better off taking the $24 and going to a laundry!Back to work on my "Jump to Conclusions" mat!

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 05:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 05, 2015, 05:10:42 pmDo you have a reliable source for $2 motors?Does that include the gearbox?Is it reversible? Can you control the speed?QuoteNo drill motor is powerful enough to directly drive the agitator or the barrel.How are you going to do the step-down gear (belt?) drive within your budget?Quotea) Use the traditional gland/o-ring seals on rotating shafts.b) Drive everything from the TOP so you don't need any holes in the barrel.c) Use magnetic coupling to drive the agitator.But you would need REALLY POWERFUL (read: expensive) magnets to get the torque required.Hard to see how you can do all that (even without any electronics) within your budget?OTOH, it is probably good that James Roberts wasn't listening to "advice" like that from divelectserviceshttp://www.sciencealert.com/this-blow-up-incubator-could-save-premature-babies

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 05:53:12 pm
content: Homeless!depends on the countries where the home less live .. some places getting used slippers may be difficult ...ok letme come to the tech part I am limiting to 3 Kg , the 400w drill motor sd rock1) panda washing machine has that powerful motor ?a 555 based reversing is always possible for a dc motor variant but wht to do with the ac motor ??drill motors are running bikes cant spin clothes??2)gearbox needed for simple belt pully ??This guy picked 2$ drill in USA :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pb2Z4SokOEhere(india) it is expensive ..so ac drill is just 8$ i will use if possibleO-ring seal is good idea

author: divelectservices
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 05:57:06 pm
content: There is no comparison between an infant incubator and a moving bucket of water (washing machine)!One of the reasons modern clothes washers work so well is they use centrifugal motion during the spin and rinse cycles to remove the dirty water from the clothes. In the old days they used washboards with holes to get the same effect. Simply agitating the clothes in dirty water will not get them any cleaner than you could do yourself in a sink full of water.Good luck trying to get that thing spinning fast enough without flying apart.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:01:08 pm
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 05, 2015, 05:53:12 pmThe raw motor doesn't have to be all that powerful, but when it it is "geared down" it produces much more torque (at the expense of RPM which you don't need anyway)QuoteTypically you can use a relay to switch the external capacitor to opposite sides of the motor winding to reverse the rotation.QuoteNote that they are using a rather beefy worm-drive gearbox, PLUS a "step-down" sprocket/chain to further reduce the speed and increase the torque.QuoteIt doesn't matter how you do it.Gears, pulley/belt, sprocket/chain, even rubber wheel-friction.You need to establish the speed and torque to do the job and then scale the "transmission" to the torque and speed of the motor.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:03:36 pm
content: yes it is not that super highprofile machinebut the mini panda washing machine exists ..in 3 kg rangei am thinking it will do a good job for dalily changing clothsoffice formalsetcQuote from: divelectservices on January 05, 2015, 05:57:06 pm

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:04:38 pm
content: Here, watch this:You can go through a hundred years of washing machine evolution in the time it takes to eat lunch.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:05:10 pm
content: Note that modern washing machines use a special gearbox that has two functions.To "switch" between the functions, they reverse the rotation of the motor.One function is to drive the central agitator alternating clockwise, and then anti-clockwise.Note that this is NOT done by reversing the motor, it is done with gears and special mechanisms.The other function is to rotate the entire mess (the inner agitator AND the outer barrel quite fast to extract the water.Note that this requires rather beefy shaft and bearings to withstand the significant mass of the wet clothes.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:08:09 pm
content: Thanks a lot richard ... alex ..the gearbox is not far away RC plane gears have some ready made onesac reversing i saw in youtube , guessing how can i do it with few triacs if possible

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:08:45 pm
content: For a dirt cheap washing solution for poor people I would probably look into non electrical solutions.Here is one idea

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:16:15 pm
content: no no mechanical and funny looking machine it is ... there are 1000scould not get a single good diy version with motor on u-tubei wanna add even fancy touch controls ,no knobscheap but classy

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on January 05, 2015, 06:04:38 pmI think it is GREAT that the entire series of "Secret Life of Machines" is available free online.IMHO, one of the truly BRILLIANT shows out of the UK.Highly recommended to most readers of these forums.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:53:17 pm
content: Torque - 12 kgcm johnson gear dc motors are available in<8$ will it be ok ?also RPM - 30, Stall Torque 25 kgcmhttp://www.amazon.in/Johnson-Geared-Motor-gear-robotics/dp/B00N4MHAN6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0C1W9E2987XMJD580XTP

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 05, 2015, 06:53:17 pmNot enough information.At what RPM is that torque quoted?How much will it cost for the rest of the transmission system?Including the implementation of both the wash and spin cycles?How does that fit with the $8 cost for just the motor?

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 06:57:24 pm
content: The 12kg one has 100 RPMhttp://www.amazon.in/Johnson-Geared-Motor-gear-robotics/dp/B00N4N2D9Q/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=0C1W9E2987XMJD580XTPThis attached circuit is pwm controland dpdt switch can be a relay with another 555 toggling every say 5sec to give a reverse spin .My target is to make a lowcost daily usable system .It can be further enhanced with time .I know well about all sensorsand can do easy touch circuits (hum noise based). MCU version i will roll out if basic version becomes usable .swapping the 50k with ldr and ramp generator we can have a ringe cycle (slow to high speed)

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:29:06 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 05, 2015, 06:05:10 pmI've fixed quite a few washing machines and none of them have used gearboxes. They have all used electronic controller boards using relays and triacs to control the spin up/spin down with signals from the motor to regulate speed and to change the direction of spin. Perhaps this is a difference between the USA top loader style machines vs EU front loaders?Oh, I will add, changing the tubs hub bearings and "spider" is nearly the worst fecking job ever. With the throwaway prices of modern machines it's really not worth all that effort. An experience nonetheless

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:35:09 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 05, 2015, 06:24:34 pmFantastic series. I can't believe how dated it looks now. It's like an 80's version of Discovery Canadas "How it's made", but still much better!

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:41:24 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 05, 2015, 07:29:06 pmWow, maybe its time to upgrade my washing machine. It continues to grind away using primitive mechanical timers (clock motor, cams and microswitches) and a big sealed gear-box, belt driven from a motor. Alas, it continues to hang in their washing my clothes, so I'm not inclined to buy some new, fancy machine until it breaks.In fact, if the big timer kludge breaks, I am inclined to replace it with an Arduino and a few triacs. I'm probably not the first to think of this retro-repair.But I think you are correct. The front-load machines (which we also have here in the US) are mechanically much simpler, and don't need the separate agitator and gearbox, like my top-load (which is much more common in the US until they all die and are replace by front-loaders.)But I don't think dave_j_fan understands all the issues here. He may have to actually try constructing a prototype to see for himself. A front-load rotating barrel on a horizontal axis seems like a much more suitable design for ultra-low budget washing machine. Although it has its own quirks and design issues. But much more suitable for using a 5-gallon plastic barrel like that video showed.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:46:22 pm
content: yes i an very new to this ... and yes early proto may have bugs but motor torque and rpm for a 3 kg capableWM is needed , so that i by 1 motor and tweak it

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 05, 2015, 07:35:09 pmYes, Tim Hunkin is a REAL ENGINEER to my way of thinking. He can actually demonstrate HOW things work and WHY they were designed that way.In a way, Dave's teardown videos are rather a 21st century version of "The Secret Life of Machines". Maybe we need more like that.The "How Its Made" series always left me wanting more. As a video producer I can easily see how it came to be produced like that (budget constraints). But it seemed like a very low-budget production and one that used EXCLUSIVELY "B-roll" footage. And quite possibly footage provided by the company that was being shown (even more cost-effective!) And with a script written to satisfy a non-technical series producer who wanted to keep it "dumbed-down" to appeal to a broader audience. And the narrator had a pleasant enough voice, but it always sounded like he was just "phoning it in". Again, perhaps because of low-budget constraints.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 07:59:51 pm
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 05, 2015, 07:46:22 pmMaybe take an idea from that electric-drill powered scooter. Make a product that you can simply connect up to an existing electric drill. Then they can use the drill for its intended purpose also (and maybe even to power their scooter!). And then you are free of the worry of the motor/electric parts for your machine design. Remember also that mains-connected electrical/electronic devices that also use water are significant safety hazards.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 08:19:36 pm
content: Tim Hunkin vid i liked too ..yes idea from scooter , i will do that .DC motor will be safer ,even if i use AC motor the insulation will be seriously handled ,and motor will be isolated fully from water

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2015, 02:58:39 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 05, 2015, 07:41:24 pmI've replaced this so many times that I can probably do it with my eyes closedI keep telling my wife not to use the heavy duty cycle with towels, blankets etc.. but it's a futile attempt.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2015, 08:07:19 am
content: sounds familiarhttps://www.google.com/search?q=frania+pralka&source=lnms&tbm=isch

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2015, 09:50:58 am
content: yes Raszrecreating vintage WMhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Pralka_Frania_-_producent_%C5%9Awiatowit.jpganyone can post the motor specs ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2015, 06:06:21 am
content: 1) homeless will handwash side the river. the cheapest of all even the hobbiest like you and me cant beat the cost.2) washing machine dont use gear, they used this big AC motor with somesort of capacitor/condenser to smooth start it. and all sort of mechanical "exoticeries" like antivibration support and all those specially molded rubbers.3) the cheapest way i see is ask from someone who tossed their old washing machine and then mod/repair it.4)i have one old and decommisioned here right next. its still functional, its decommisioned due to the wifey want a new automatic and shiny one, this old one had some the plastic part disintegrated to pieces from UV effect like drain hose,top cover etc. good brand "Sharp", like the new shiny one, the most trusted brand in the family. who want one? its free, you pay for shipping, anticipate 20-30kg and 1m cube volume of shipping cost. free to you directly from malaysia

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2015, 06:36:23 am
content: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/unique-bucket-mounted-mini-washing-machinehttp://www.ebay.in/itm/Handy-Washing-Machine-Portable-travel-easy-to-use-Small-Machine-Big-Wonder-/171214525003http://trak.in/tags/business/2014/10/29/portable-washing-machine-priced-rs1500-25/

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 04:16:23 am
content: i prefer this morehttp://trak.in/innovation/indian-school-girl-invents-washing-machine-without-electricity-302013/people giving excuse they dont have time to handwash the 2.5kg of clothing so they need the $25 portable, but then they went to gym they give excuse they need to lower their fat. isnt going to gym waste time? how ironic people of today

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 06:51:32 am
content: More realistic than the 24$ Diy idea = find a river and smack clothes against a rock, then hang off a tree to dry.Ian.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 07:35:06 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 05, 2015, 07:41:24 pmMacbeth is quite right. We have had F & P smart drive machines for 20 years or more.There are many uses for the clapped out units:This one with a bit more detail:http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FPRewire.aspLow speed direct drive rotor has permanent magnets in a shallow cup rotating around the fixed stator, driven by 3 phases derived from single phase 230 VAC that is standard HH supply here.Recent models used the incoming cold water to cool the active devices that are mounted on a custom water tube heatsink.No cooling water, no problem they just shut down and beep at you.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 11:51:16 am
content: If you have one, simply clean your PCB's in the dishwasherNo joking, many small PCB assembly shops do.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 01:27:25 pm
content: dont show me the jokes like the padel machines ,or useless arguments like handwash ur clothswhy a diy guy start a thread if he has to hand wash clothes ....i mentioned homeless because many people will take it if it is lowcostby low cost i t will be decent looking .. "NOT PADEL POWERED COMEDY MACHINE"1)motor specs i got like 250watts will do for three kg2)tried rotating clothes on a round container by hand and i could guess small motors cant do that

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2015, 08:36:19 pm
content: Ok, ok, since this is anelectronicscommunity....

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 05:33:59 am
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 09, 2015, 01:27:25 pmand be realistic... 250w motor for $2? come on. even mr onehunglow will shaken their knee off try to make one.Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 09, 2015, 01:27:25 pmcongratulation, now your know.and O-ring as seal for the rotating machine? you try that first for few hours, and then report in. you'll know thats the joke. nobody take an offense

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 06:15:35 am
content: OHL can make a 250W motor for $2, just choose the lifetime. At that price point it will likely be under the 5 minute mark.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 06:48:39 am
content: drill motors come in 400W range for 8$ ...any luck may be there

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 06:58:17 am
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 10, 2015, 06:48:39 amThat is a motor with a design life of 15 minutes though.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 08:15:31 am
content: Quote from: dave_j_fan on January 09, 2015, 01:27:25 pmIs there some sort of lost-in-translation problem here I wonder.What does dave_j_fan mean "homeless"?To me, "homeless" means somebody who does not have a "fixed place of abode", that is, they live "on the street", or maybe at a homeless shelter, which I expect is probably the same meaning as most people in the western world would attribute to the term, homeless people do not want to be carrying a washing machine around, beside the fact that they do not have anywhere to plug said electric washing machine in.I wonder if dave_j_fan means something different and that his "homeless" people do have a fixed place of abode with electricity?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2015, 08:41:12 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 10, 2015, 06:58:17 amtry to rotate 2.5kg clothing in full of water, make that halved. 7 minutes 30 secondsif the quality is decent i'll buy 10 of that drill and make 9 gifts to other relatives. because my relatives keep borrowing stuffs from me.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2015, 07:14:58 pm
content: see the image its says i need 15KG/cm motorlets leave the controversy aside ..and work towards optionsthe highest rated motor is 1 Nm max torquedata is fromhttp://e-motor.en.made-in-china.com/product/FSfEHNLJhuck/China-60-Watt-Shaft-10mm-Square-Spin-Motor.htmlwe can improve on this design