Equipment obession on this forum? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2013, 11:44:41 pm
content: I have been on this forum for a while now, and I noticed it seems the majority of the topics are about lab equipment itself instead of discussing other electronic topics or how to use that gear; equipment by itself is only a tool to achieve something, not the purpose. If you know what I mean... like a car forum where only tools are discussed instead of how to actually fix a car.Not meant to be critical, just wondering

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2013, 11:47:07 pm
content: Not the majority. It's just that lab equipment is pretty much the one thing weallhave in common. There are tons of threads discussing other things, but they're not the ones everybody jumps in on.Besides, equipmentcanbe the "something" you achieve - somebody has to develop the equipment. There's a big difference between an oscilloscope and a screwdriver. Personally I like designing that sort of stuff much better than a lot of other things.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2013, 11:47:55 pm
content: This forum is whatever you make it.If you discuss electronics design, people will discuss electronics design.If you discuss test equipment, people will discuss test equipment.If you discuss what people are discussing, then people will discuss what they are discussingDave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2013, 11:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 07, 2013, 11:47:07 pmIf you looked at the stats then you might think test equipment is the majority.e.g. is has the almost all of the Top 10 places.But in reality I think that just the nature of the topic. e.g. everyone has an opinion on what multimeter or oscilloscope is best, and as you said it's something we all have in common.But if you ask about say low noise opamp design, a much smaller percentage is going to have an interest and/or knowledge and/or opinion in that area, so the responses are fewer, and that would show up on the unread threads list.And I think it also stems from my blogs of course. I review test gear and have an affinity for it, so that naturally tends to attract other like minded people.So this forum has a bit of a rep of being the best place to come and talk test gear.Dave.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 12:54:52 am
content: Yes, I have become a bit obsessed with multimeters. One reason is that I thought I was buying something reasonable when I made a recent purchase only to find it was not even close on some of the claims made by the manufacturer. When those claims can affect personal safety and the well being of some expensive equipment I became determined to find the manufacturers and models that actually met their claims and specs. Basically I wanted to open others' eyes and try to steer people to the better equipment even if it isn't the most accepted brand. Sure you can buy a Fluke or an Agilent and get something safe, but they are not always the best buy nor within a person's budget for the features they want/need.Obsessed? Probably, but it too will pass

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 12:58:28 am
content: I find it funny, because lately I have spent more timein the lab messing with measurements and equipment rather than breadboarding circuitsI think I want to do an internship at a calibration lab

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 01:57:11 am
content: On other electronics forums I've seen that are more focused on a single topic, the test equipment sections are still one of the larger sections of discussion. I think it's in part due to the fact that almost any area of electronics depends heavily on test equipment in some form to help develop, test, or trouble shoot circuits. Everyone gets a dose. Maybe it's an acquired taste for some but sooner or later (usually sooner) we all have to deal with test equipment. Since meters are probably the most widely used over all areas of interest, I would expect more discussions on them than anything else.Of all the areas of electronics I've had an interest in over the years my main focus now is collecting vintage test equipment. Go figure.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 02:01:24 am
content: I kinda just skip over all of them... I don't really care which $20 chinese meter or chinese scope is hot this week, I only care about designing and building things

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 04:06:05 am
content: Quote from: marshallh on February 08, 2013, 02:01:24 amI generally tend to agree. People tend to spend too much time worrying about what their gear can't do instead of just getting on with designing and building interesting stuff that's within the limits of what their gear can do.Though I've learnt tons from looking at how 70-80's test gear was designed, and therefore the "reverse engineering" type reviews and videos are great.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 10:38:02 am
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on February 07, 2013, 11:44:41 pmstick around for couple of years more. it actually a "mental test".

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 01:24:06 pm
content: Some of the "instrument" threads contain some technical merit and I have learned a lot followingthose partsof the discussions.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 08:31:26 pm
content: ??This forum is useful for sharing information about various meters, scopes, etc... Why not?

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2013, 11:29:00 pm
content: the equipment used like multimeters, scopes etc are tools but they are also gadgets. all geeks love gadgets and to talk about them. lots of people are confused about which equipment is needed or how to use it so discussions about it are bound to come up a lot. they are also expensive so when people are thinking about purchasing a piece then it makes sense to ask the knowledgable guys what to buy and why.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 12:29:45 am
content: Test gear gives you superpowers! the more superpowers you have, the easier it is to build / fix and learn.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 12:51:57 am
content: I'm always amazed with the awesome work some people do with the most modest set of tools. On the other had, there are guys that go out and buy every piece of test gear they can get their hands on - as if collecting the equipment a bigger part of the hobby then actually doing work.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 01:04:02 am
content: I think you will find the "mine is bigger than yours" syndrome in all facets of life and it's not going to change anytime soon.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 02:15:20 am
content: Quote from: george graves on February 09, 2013, 12:51:57 amFor some people that can indeed be so -- and not just in electronics. For instance, I have a modest collection of a few dozen cameras -- because I enjoy playing with different designs, or having pieces that are somehow 'interesting', or in some cases just completing a series! -- whereas when it comes to actually taking photographs there are only two or three I use regularly. And that's only when I find myself going somewhere there's something worth photographing, which is pretty rare lately...

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 04:07:53 am
content: Quote from: george graves on February 09, 2013, 12:51:57 amThere's nothing wrong with collecting test equipment. That's my main focus now. I've been a tech all my life. Why would an interest in collecting test equipment be any different than collecting anything else someone was interested in?For myself, I especially like finding and documenting strange or little known items that for one reason or another were unique or even unknown by most today. I spent many years having to design and maintain electronics. Why shouldn't I get to a point where I just do what interests me the most. I find I like researching the history of items as much as I like working on them. If some of us don't do it all that will be lost. If it does not interest you just move on.Maybe I find someone's SMD mounting problem of little interest to me but I don't sit here and bitch about them talking about it. I just move on to something that interests me. That's what a forum is about.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 06:22:39 am
content: I've seen people buy lots of fancy equipment thinking it will make up for their lack of basic electronics knowledge. A reasonable DMM and a cheap oscilloscope will get you a long way.

author: Rick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 07:26:29 am
content: Also equipment hoarding is contagious. I see someone collecting equipment I feel like doing the same.There is some velleity too I think.Luckily I stop when I run out of cash:) For example I have sworn I shall never buy handheld multimeters any moreTime to buy bench ones;)

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 07:37:16 am
content: There are basically three types of personalities in any activity. The first is the person who just wants to participate in the activity with whatever equipment is at hand and the activity is all that matters, whether it is high level or not. The second is the person who wants to do the activity the best he can with the given finances allotted. The third is the person who wants to have the best equipment for bragging rights or obsession. We probably all know someone in these three types.Generally the bragging rights type do the least with their equipment. The other types are usually much more productive. I count myself in the second type but with the caveat I posted earlier that I am obsessed with finding the best bang for the buck and safe and reliable multimeter so that others can share in the information. If I were not living in Chile, where "quality" and "dong it right" are dirty words, I might not have gone off on this tangent.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 08:06:40 am
content: I find it odd because recently i decided to move all my equipments just a few inches close to where i usually sit!Not "odd" do i mean, obsessed yes.But the mission i set for myself is pretty much the same as Lightages, here in singapore, "reliability" and "doing it properly" are taboos. Seriously.Many people just head out and get the cheapest meter they can or they just buy fluke and be done with it not knowing they have zero bang for buckFact is here on this tiny island no one cares whether they got the right meter for the job or not! Nor do they care for reliability which they do not know fluke and agilent posesses, EE students just run out and buy whatever meter they can get on their hands for 8$Now, i want to set things right and straight. Accuracy "doing it properly" is one i always address. If something is inaccurate over time by a fair bit i will really shoot the particular meter to hell, like a UT71XThen "reliability", well it's really important i can't stress it enough.Sure you can buy a U1232 here for 300SGD (Not cheap i know) and a UT61E costs like 50$ with more resolution, but that's not what EE students here buy!So when they break they just buy another 8$ meter and in the long run it costs them quite a lot and this is all part and parcel of doing it right, they buy without knowing anything and in use not even in the know how inaccurate it will eventually beThat's why i like the UT61E, sure it lacks a backlight and APO (Struck me in the back the other day ... i left it on for a week and goodbye GO-LITE or something battery)but it's build quality is epic for a 50$ meter, well it sure is. It's stiff and suchHence this is why i have a equipment obsession and would post my findings every so and then (Well Now at least)and the obligatory greek guy insult "A certain greek guy thinks that you must spend 300USD to have a "meter" I still maintain my stance that you need to know what you are buying/doing"

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 08:47:31 am
content: Completely agree with the OP's sentiments.It is not about how good your shoes are, it is about how fast you run.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:57:55 am
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on February 07, 2013, 11:44:41 pmI guess you're right. But frankly, this makes this forum pretty unique (where else can you find a forum that actually discusses test & measurement instruments, aside from maybe the manufacturer-specific forums?) and it's the main reason I registered here. At the end of the day, tools are pretty important, and especially T&M gear is quite complex and therefore a worthy topic for discussion.And it's not that there's no room to discuss circuit design or other electronics topics.Personally I'd like to see more discussions about midrange and high-end kit (even if it's older stuff), but then this is just my weirdness, and considering the audience (hobbyists), it's perfectly understandable why Rigol scopes and Uni-T multimeters are amongst the hottest topics on here. And still makes for some really interesting discussions.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:40:23 am
content: I guess I know what happen. I remember searching for Rigol Ds1052e tutorial on youtube and found Dave's videos. Dave is into "Don't turn it on, take it apart!", so people who watched his videos are looking for good tools and recommendations.I purchased the Rigol Ds1052e before even knowing eevblog even existed. I didn't want to buy a used oscilloscope because I was new to electronics and wouldn't know how to use it in the first place. Lucky me, I saw dave video on updating the firmware and it worked!So I believe it is the hardware people that saw Dave's video followed him here; plus the ee students looking for advice.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 12:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 09, 2013, 08:47:31 amSure, but that leaves out the fact that a lot of people find test equipment inherently interesting, and that it can be an end unto itself, and not just a means to an end.Like some people love cars, but to others it's just a tool to get from A to B.Like some people love calculators, but to others it's just a tool to calculate stuff.*insert your favourite thing here*Dave.

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 12:17:55 pm
content: Well by its nature, the electronics will be populated by mostly engineers and geeks and these are the people who are most drawn to gadgets and equipment! If I go to the theatre, I'll end up gazing at the lighting and sound equipment, or at the dentist I'll admire all those amazing devices hanging off the chair, etc.It reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon I saw a couple of years ago where he was at some engineers convention and the presenter asked for a volunteer to operate the projector. He was immediately swamped by a sea of raised hands and shouts of Me! Me! Me! Me!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 12:26:03 pm
content: Quote from: BillyD on February 09, 2013, 12:17:55 pmDave.

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 01:22:39 pm
content: I can see what the OP means. My first though was that it might be a similar case to GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) for musicians, in particular electric guitarists. Yet where they use the reason "a better sound" to acquire more and more equipment just to have the equipment (and brag about it), I don't think we electronics engineers suffer from GAS.As engineers we're naturally curious. If the instruments we are to work with incorporate the technology we want to understand, it's only natural that there is a lot of talk about equipment. In some cases it might smell like GAS (pun intended) but in general I'd say the instruments on our bench are literally the closest thing for us to an electronics design, and thus we want to understand and discuss their inner workings. Almost everything in an electronics instrument relates to specific electronics (design) topics, so those discussions are a great starting point for delving deeper into electronics.(YMMV)

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 01:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2013, 12:26:03 pmOther than a new Fluke to check the accuracy of what vintage equipment I restore and maintain and a couple of newer soldering/rework stations, every piece of test equipment on my bench is 20 to 50 years old. Yes I could fill the bench with all the latest test equipment but for what I like to do it would be a waste. The old stuff works just fine. I suppose one of these days I will buy one of these new fangled digital scopes to play with but it's not required for what I mostly do now. Heck, until the later 1950s most service shops didn't even have or need a scope. I could get by with a meter, soldering gun, some hand tools, and a variac. The rest do make some things a little easier but I've been putting together my bench since the early 1980s so a build up of bench equipment would be expected.As far as collecting, that's another story. As Dave said, my test equipment collection is not unlike someone else collecting vintage computers, calculators, pinball machines, cars, or whatever. It just depends on what you are interested in.I have over 100 tube testers. Most are pre 1950. Do I use them all now? No, of course not. I use two from the 50s and 60s. I have an interest in their history and design though and keep them around as examples. Beats having them rot in someones basement, attic, or barn. Do they sit in my shop? Yes, and not many people see them. Is it a waste? I don't think so. The more interesting ones I post on the web site along with their data so others can see them and enjoy reading about their history.There are more people into test equipment than you think. I get a constant flood of emails from people looking to restore something and looking for parts and service information. It's taken many years to build up the collection and library of service information. It's what I like to do. I gave up designing the latest digital circuit years ago. So what. Many today don't have a clue as to how a tube works. Does that mean that that knowledge will eventually be lost? I hope not. Collectors actually help preserve the technology of the past. Think about that the next time you see an old vacuum tube voltmeter at a garage sale. It may not be a Fluke but it was a great piece of test equipment.As far as the guys buying all the latest and greatest test equipment that they probably won't use, that's their choice. Heck, I know people that spend a lot more on cars, boats, ATVs, and other crap that I'm not interested in and mostly sits in their driveway but so what. That's their money and their choice. I happen to like old test equipment.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 08:48:56 pm
content: ErikTheNorwegian, did you see the nearby post about off-topic discussions? You should check it out.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:10:45 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 09, 2013, 08:48:56 pmQuote from: c4757p on February 09, 2013, 08:48:56 pmI was kidding. No need to be rude. FWIW, I am diagnosed with Asperger's as well, but I'm not so sure it has anything to do with my electronics/test equipment "obsession". I just like them.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:29:03 pm
content: It should be noted that Asperger's Syndrome is soon to no longer exist as a "legitimate" diagnosis. It is being dropped from the next edition of the DSM:http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/02/aspergers-syndrome-dropped-psychiatric-dsm

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:33:36 pm
content: Yes, merged with high-functioning autism, which has always been pretty much the same exact thing.jeroen74, sorry for the hijack, I'm done here.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:54:13 pm
content: Sadly, where I am, there are just enough people out there who act like complete assholes and blame Asperger's or autism to give it a bad name, and having encountered a couple of them at school, I can't say I blame the people who meet them and then end up with a bit of a prejudice. So I see your point about being proud of it, but I generally just keep it to myself. We are all different in our own ways, and we all have our own challenges to deal with. This is mine. I put a lot of effort into acting as "normal" as I can, and I deal with the challenges of doing that myself and with my family.QuoteNo, I assure you, I have and have had many "Asperger's obsessions" and this isn't one of them. They're very different things.QuoteI figured it could be interpreted that way, so I added theand hoped for the best. Itwason-topic, but only if you read it thoroughly, otherwise it seemed a bit non-sequitur. I thought it was funny (in a "thanks for the laugh" way, not the "I'm laughing at you" way).Quote from: c4757p on February 09, 2013, 09:33:36 pmjeroen74, sorry for the lies, I wasn't done here but now I am.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 09:54:46 pm
content: If you don't wind your inductors out of aluminum foil, use pencil lead as resistors, 9v batteries as references, old radiator as variac, yard sale pewter lamps as solder, scrape your own flux and your tongue as a multimeter then you are a asperger syndrome retardIf your laboratory does not look like this then you are a poser with too much equipmentalso none of you better ever buy clothing in a place other then the thrift store.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:02:42 pm
content: I have a soft spot for displays; especially LED and VFD ones. I remember when I bought my first HD44780 display module somewhere in the eighties and how exhilarated I felt. I controlled it with pushbuttonsOr that controller-less Sharp 400x64 surplus LCD module, that collected dust for nearly two decades before I hooked it up to an Altera Cyclone devboard.I also have a small collection of VFD and LED based calculators and Casio watches.So, any (test) gear that either has a LED of VFD readout has quite an extra high coolness factor to me

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on February 09, 2013, 09:54:46 pmThat guy haswaytoo much equipment - no way he needs that chair. He should just sit on the ground God gave him.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:08:15 pm
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on February 09, 2013, 10:02:42 pmHellyes. I don't know why, but I love anything with a VFD.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:15:30 pm
content: The avatar might give it away, but my "geeky collection" would be vacuum tubes, mostly industrial/special purpose/transmitting types.Of course, with the internet, even the strangest interests can find kindred spirits:http://www.tubecollectors.org

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2013, 10:51:34 pm
content: You just can't quantify HFA by saying "people with it are x y and/or z"... it's just not that simple. Asperger's is a subset of HFA which is more specific so you can do that a little with it, but many of the things that people attribute to that even are just false stereotypes.Yes, I have HFA.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Something nobody seems to have mentioned is that electronics is in everything, especially in test equipment, which is used in this hobby/profession. People who make this stuff are EEs and it is a subset of EE, a very large one that is self feeding because of the nature of the mutually required test equipment and electronics engineering. What I don't get is why people who seem to be EEs here (some of them anyway) seem to be disparaging this subset of the field they are in or interested in. It just makes no sense. We are all interested in EE or we wouldn't be here, and this is a self-feeding and symbiotic subset, so IMO it's a given that that will be quite large anywhere EE is, and this whole discussion even existing in the first place just confuses me.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 04:02:01 am
content: Quote from: N2IXK on February 09, 2013, 10:15:30 pmYou would probably like my tube pin straightener collection then....http://www.stevenjohnson.com/tubepinst.htm

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 06:47:42 am
content: I collect lamps, and have a few that are older than me by decades, probably older than almost all members here, though I do not pay high prices for them, so it must not be too obsessive.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 06:49:55 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 10, 2013, 06:47:42 amThat's just a strange enough collection for me to really like it. Kind of cool.

author: jaqie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 06:55:51 am
content: I actually collect x86 compatible computers from all eras, and eventually would love to build my own AT class computer PCBs and parts, including a 386 class motherboard, fully AT compatible. Coming here was a step toward that, and will help me toward that goal, even if I never reach it.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 08:24:34 am
content: If it wasn't obvious enough, i like meters.I've always had aspergers in my life whether what i intensely like. There is nothing called "Like slightly" there's only hate or obsessed to me

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2013, 08:39:46 am
content: IMO a 'real' AT class computer is a 80286 based one, not 386 and up.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2013, 10:13:50 am
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on February 07, 2013, 11:44:41 pmAs for me. I buy equipment, the thing I want to archieve is knowing how to work with it, do some uncommercial stuff with it, teach myself, stay off the street. So you could also say (for me) it is the purpose.This is so for my scope, lathe, cnc mill and skidsteer.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 09:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: ErikTheNorwegian on February 11, 2013, 10:36:58 amI built a garage to put the skidsteer in. For building that garage I needed the skidsteer.The garage also keeps my lathe warm, I previously needed it to repair the skidsteer.And I moved the 900kg lathe into the new garage with the ...:-)Makes sense to some, not to others. I don't see this absolute, but relative.Compare it to other "boys" stuff, like football, gaming, 2nd hidden girlfriend, ...

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 10:29:00 pm
content: To the OP. Dont worry about it. Some people just have been in business so long they have nothing else to talk about then latest and greatest equipment they have... When your doing electronics professionally or your doing very sensitive electronics, expensive and usually accurate equipment is needed.Rest of us, we mingle and ask our dump questions in between...Personally i have cheap no brand multimeter and dirt cheap chinese made small lab power supply. And big pile of components and few solderless proto boards... Yes i newer build a serious lab even when i was doing much much more actively electronics. Those are enough for me now. In future im planning on getting a better multimeter and probably digital osciloscope..And yes, i do enjoy reading reviews of more expecive equipment, might give me ideas on what money can buy and what to expect in some price class...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2013, 11:46:27 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 09, 2013, 10:05:13 pmand whats up with that keyboard and screen 2 buttons is all you need and 1 led.button one sets a line high or low , button 2 clocks it in. and the led shows the output state.pff. wannabe

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 05:54:14 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 15, 2013, 09:10:51 pmLioving where you get snow a skidsteer will be useful to clear the way to the street when it snows, and if the municipality is slow in ploughing you can make a little money clearing the neighbours as well.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 06:41:54 am
content: Nothing is wrong with collecting test equipment simply because it's beautiful, with no pressing need to actually use it. There's a spectrum of valid reasons, from 'I must have X, because my livelihood depends on it', right through to the technological equivalent of stamp collecting. There's no 'wrong' when you're spending your own money on something you like, and it does no one any harm.Personally I buy gear for reasons right across the range. Much of it is for specific projects. Some I acquire because when I was young and poor, access to such things was just a dream. Some things because they're cool, and _maybe_ will be useful for something I have in mind to do in future. Remember that with obscure test gear, opportunity can be a strong argument - you may never see another one so easily available to you. A recent example being the HP Q-meter I bought.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(au)-ebay-hewlett-packard-34401a-multimeter/msg192715/#msg192715'Stamp collecting' equipment buying is something I try to avoid. But every now and then enthusiasm overcomes that resolution. So what?As for Aspergers, a grief counselor I was seeing a few years ago suggested I might fit this syndrome. But I don't know... Not that it's important, but I suspect there's an overlap of Aspie syndrome, and what you get when an intelligent person just decides to try and minimize the number of standard cognitive biases they suffer from. See the Wiki list here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biases_in_judgment_and_decision_makingThe problem is, most people's thinking is so fundamentally faulty, that anyone who tries to do better ends up seeming 'strange' to the 'normal' person. When someone figures out in their pre-teens that a lot of common assumptions, beliefs and social mores are irrational garbage, and tries to make a habit of constructing a more sensible personal philosophy, there's going to be some visible effects.Rephrased, I believe several of the indicators of Aspergers can be the result of innate character, OR the result of deliberate choice of approach to life.An interesting doc I found on Asperger's, saved here:http://everist.org/misc/Discovering_Asper.htm

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 08:43:46 am
content: Maybe be cause the equipment is the only thing most of us here have in common?One is working on a robot, the other on an amp. Both have a multimeter?And it is the thing that we keep the longest. Projects come and go. The scope stays.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 01:05:21 pm
content: What's not to love about collecting newer or older test equipment.These are both from the 1930s.Who here would let this go to the trash?Or the matching signal generator?How often do you see brass front panels?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 02:12:57 pm
content: Lovely scope. The oldest I have ever seen.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 02:37:51 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on February 16, 2013, 01:05:21 pmMe, without blinking. Totally useless old junk. Sorry if it sound harsh , but i have no sympathy for such machines. They are useless (no triggering system to begin with) , clunky, heavy and butt-ugly. It's like making a test equipment out of the front grille of a car.If it ain't got at least 7 segment displays , led vfd or lcd doesn't matter, and pushbuttons to enter data i don't want it. Dials and scales are crap. The microprocessor was invented in 1972... That's 40 years ago... Anything that doesn't have one in it to , at least, control the user interface is not worth my time and or effort.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 03:37:10 pm
content: Back then people took pride in what they designed and built. Engineering was a combination of functional, long lasting designs and art. That scope and generator still work. Granted they are worthless for servicing todays equipment but they are a part of electronics history. Pretty much everything now is built to maybe last the warranty period and designed to be replaced in just a few years. There is no pride in manufacturing serviceable, long lasting equipment anymore, just pack as many features in as cheaply as possible so you can and still make a high profit. I doubt any of the new plastic digital stuff will still be working in 80 years.I'm afraid that many of todays engineers are use to buying cheaply made, unserviceable, disposable equipment and have now grown up never knowing anything different. What do you think they will design? Everything is strictly profit driven now. When you take the pride out of it you get junk. Sad.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 03:52:07 pm
content: But in 80 years current equipment is most likely just as worthless junk as that 1930s scope is now. And why would equipment need to last that long? There is totally no point in that, only to increase the price needlessly. Ten to twenty years is, from an engineering standpoint more then enough. Equipment gets written off and replaced after 10-15 years. If any repairs are needed they are either no longer possible or so expensive it's no longer economical and money is better spent on modern equipment.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 04:07:14 pm
content: It does not need to last that long but there is a lot being manufactured today that won't even last it's warranty period. From what I've seen, more than half of the test equipment manufactured today will not last. 10 years would be pushing it. Look at meters. They are spewing out DMMs for just a few dollars and we're buying them. They are garbage but there's many now that will buy and use them until they blow up and just keep replacing them with the same piece of crap. We have turned into a throw away society for consumer electronics and it's now trickling down into test equipment.Rant over.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 04:14:50 pm
content: It is the love, skills, dedication and making the best out of what you had at hand in those days that make these old instruments a showcase. That was and is real engineering. You can still learn from this, you can learn about the right mindset.Without these forerunners who paved the way we, including the arrogant "it's all old useless crap" engineers, would still sit in trees, making grunt noises and throwing banana peels at each other.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 04:25:13 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on February 16, 2013, 04:07:14 pmIt is even worse. You aren't even any more allowed to say that the crap is crap. Go into one of the threads here where they glorify some crap meter and tell them it is crap. The first response you will get is "DUDE, YOU AREN'T GETTING IT, IT IS CHEAP". And from there it goes downhill.On the other hand, take a crap meter, start a thread and make a big fuss about how you, a random guy on the internet with no credentials and no standing, reviewed, yes, REVIEWED it. And claim it is good, because it is cheap and looks funky. You'll get praises and high fives all around.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 04:40:02 pm
content: Some of the of the old stuff is an economical way to get perfomance that is very expensive to replicate today likehere

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 05:36:23 pm
content: QuoteYes, that's something I don't like either but inevitable given the pace of technology I guess.Those 1930s pieces look nice to us just because it's old. Back in those days it was nothing special. And it's only the case that lasts long; the paper caps and tubes inside it are total crap of course. Maybe even in its day it was crap on the inside. It's just cosmetics.I'm quite sure there are enough engineers who put all their love, skills and dedication into making the best of the best; within the boundaries of what marketing allows of course. I'm not sure whether true engineering means trying to make the best possible. I think it's more about designing something that's 'good enough'. Maybe it just that 'good' in longevity terms has been reduced from 10 to 2 years; or planned obsolescence. Which from a purely business standpoint is good.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 06:19:09 pm
content: Actually, vacuum tubes don't really go bad sitting. The biggest problem with tubes sitting is sometimes the glue breaks down that holds the glass securely to the base.I replaced a couple of caps in the signal generator power supply but the scope has all its originals. If I was going to use it on a regular basis I'd go through and replace the caps but I prefer to have it be as original as possible at this point since it's more of a history piece and I don't expect to use it.

author: Spawn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 08:58:18 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on February 16, 2013, 04:25:13 pmThat is the thing which worries me too B@W, it is getting rather annoying, you can’t even say it is crap when it is your own equipment. I can understand it is hard to get a good equipment in some countries but it still doesn’t mean you need to be protective about equipment just because you own one. Some are okay to use for a beginning hobbyist, but for professional work it could be rather dangerous.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2013, 09:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on February 16, 2013, 01:05:21 pmWell certainly not me. I would treat it with the utmost respect!That is to say ... take it apart and see what can be learned from the construction methods of that era. Then put it back together again and sell it to the highest bidder.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 03:21:07 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 16, 2013, 09:38:13 pmYup, and then you could take the money you got for it and buy one of those new fangled digital scopes and have some money left over.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 04:44:13 am
content: Heh, or finally get me a bench DMM since I already have one of those old fangled Rigol crushing DSO's.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 02:10:40 pm
content: This is my main attraction to the forum, bolded below. As for gear, if I don't use it, I lose it.Collecting is an interesting human phenomenon but I think its best for museums, if there is something unique about an item, it gets a very limited audience when left in a private collection.Collectors of any type of interest, from electronics to stamps, should insure that someone inherits their stuff to their liking, its properly valued or they slowly dispose of it while they have the capacity to do so before it becomes too late. A lot of stuff I see valued by collectors come to little in the open market as there are few or no people who find similar value in it. In which case it ends up in the trash, "beautiful" as it is. A lot of 'antique roadshow' finds often are in the arts and crafts work, and what's shown in TV is vast minority of items appraised.http://www.eham.net/articles/5477/http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48775&showall=1Quote from: robrenz on February 16, 2013, 04:40:02 pm

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 03:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on February 17, 2013, 02:10:40 pmThat's why I try to get background on every piece I can, both historical and/or service info and post it on the web site. I will try to post catalogs, advertisements, schematics and service manuals, data sheets, sometimes even patents if it's a first of a kind, and whatever else I can find on a piece of test equipment that makes it to the web site. It really would have been a waste to just let it all sit with just me looking at it. Seems to be working as I get thousands of visitors to the site every month from all over and more email than I have time to answer. It's what I enjoy doing.Something that I did not know before I started posting on the web but there are a lot more serious test equipment collectors out there than you might think. If you think it's crazy, dumb, or a waste of time don't do it. Myself, I think there's enough 555 timer circuits out there so I don't bother with them anymore but I don't go around telling someone they are wasting their time playing with one. You never know what your going to learn from something from the past.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2013, 06:49:47 pm
content: This is good to know, having something akin to an online museum gets a wider audience. If it binds a community of collectors so they are known to each other then there is a potential for successors to maintain collections; one would have to create a succession plan to insure a collection doesn't disappear.There is always something to be learned from working on older technology, a question is more of value, in terms of a yield for time spent. After I repair it then keep it going, is the effort worth it in that its better than what I can obtain today? Or what I learned from repairing it, how much of that knowledge is applicable to what I'm doing today?Quote from: SLJ on February 17, 2013, 03:09:56 pm