Shutup10 an easy way to stop microsoft from spying on you. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 04:27:04 pm
content: Finally I have found something to stop Microsoft from spying on my laptop and its easy to use. The problem with windows 10 is that the privacy setting are intentionally hard to find and disable. This program gives you a big list of all of them and you just click them. Its disturbing to go and read the descriptions of what Microsoft is doing, but reassuring to now know you just turned off 1984 mode on the TV with a camera in it that you can't shut off. Its made y a company called O&O and its free.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 06:12:05 pm
content: I don't care what they do anymore. If they want to spy on me, turn my camera on, and watch when my purple helmet warrior spits yogurt on the screen, then they can. Whatever gets them off.You are watched everywhere. Take a look at businesses, almost everyone around here has a camera or 2, even all the stop light poles have cameras, oh and don't get me started on speed or red light cameras. They are even talking about designing drones to fly the skies to spy on everyone now.Let em watch, I don't care anymore.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 06:17:53 pm
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on June 07, 2017, 06:12:05 pmI often feel like that. Its so much of a fight for just basic privacy. Every time I buy a new lap top I have to put tape over the camera on the screen.

author: fourtytwo42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 06:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: yada on June 07, 2017, 04:27:04 pmStick to XP! only version that ever worked........more often than not

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 06:23:46 pm
content: Thanks for the info.I know that internet privacy is an uphill battle, that Microsoft or whomever will always find yet another security hole in Windows.But at least I try to make them getting my information just a tad more difficult.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 06:26:09 pm
content: I always turn off almost everything under Settings -> Privacy. I don't know if there are others.The main thing I do is install a third-party firewall and block almost all outgoing traffic. Windows Explorer has no business trying to access port 80 - it's a file manager, not a browser. Svchost.exe is the big one. I call it Microsoft's built-in trojan because it tries to phone home, but you don't know which service is actually making the request. Classic definition of a trojan.When I turn my system on, the network icon in the taskbar shows that I'm not connected to the Internet because I've blocked all of Windows back-channels. As soon as I run my email or browser programs, Windows realizes that it is connected and changes the network icon.It takes a little more effort to maintain a system like this, but I think it's worthwhile.Ed

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 07:15:47 pm
content: The only use I have for Windows these days is games and a few programs that don't have a Linux equivalent, so I have stayed with Windows 7. Windows 10 has little to offer anyone that can't be done without it. Windows 10 benefits only Microsoft.Should I ever be forced to use Windows 10 in the future, it will probably reside on its own private vlan. Internet access will be highly restricted by network hardware, not the OS, because you can not trust Microsoft at all. Period.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 07:35:12 pm
content: The problem with using network hardware for the restrictions is that you lose the identity of the source. A program is trying to access a site on the Internet, but which program? By using software on the computer, you know which program is making the request AND what site they're trying to access.Ed

author: mrjiffy6
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 07:39:10 pm
content: Time to wear our foil hat!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 07:46:24 pm
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on June 07, 2017, 07:35:12 pmIn my situation, being that it's the Windows 10 operating system means I will have nothing there I want to have internet access, so what, when, why and where make no difference. All the same, there will probably be third party software firewall running also. That is all down the road though, I don't see any need of it for several years at least.

author: Moondeck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 08:11:44 pm
content: The best way to prevent your system from spying on you is to write your ownAnd disable the Intel AMT

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 08:46:33 pm
content: If you turn off surveillance, Microsoft likely loses money they would otherwise be paid for information on you.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 10:07:30 pm
content: I work in a high-security R&D organization of a company whose CEO was famous for being paranoid. For years, the company bought only laptops that had no cameras. But now since you can't find those anymore, the IT guys developed a corporate hack to Windows where they could disable the cameras based on which organization (or site) you work in. I believe they have a similar hack for company smart-phones.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2017, 10:10:08 pm
content: I use Linux nowadays, but I'm pretty sure my ISP spies on me more than Microsoft would have, if I used Winblow$.

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 12:56:58 am
content: The settings are not that hard to find if you want to stop the OS "phoning home".Honestly, does everyone feel they are that important that MS could be bothered "watching" them? Really?And if you're uber paranoid, just use your router/firewall to close off every port except the ones you need, and then can do nothing.100% non-issue for me.cheers,

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 02:26:08 am
content: Quote from: mrjiffy6 on June 07, 2017, 07:39:10 pmFirst post alert! Nice attempt at muddying the waters, but this is and has been a real issue. One of the biggest issues of "our time". 30 years from now, we will look back and lament that we did not see the handwriting on the wall for what it was.Can I get one of those tinfoil hats? Mine is worn out from use.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 02:37:09 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 08, 2017, 12:56:58 amBecause the operating system is there to run the computer. It doesn't matter if the data is 100% anonymized, triple encrypted and never seen by a human. The OS has no business sending any data from the system that the user doesn't explicitly allow. Installation is not, nor should it ever be, consent.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 02:48:33 am
content: If the spying and paranoia gets beyond 1984 snafu levels, that's when unused swimming pools come into playThrow all the computer related crap in(yes, the childish gamer sh*t too)set up the video cam,apply power and light er up,upload to Youtube,and get into gardening and DIY fruit and vegat least you won't be spied on, keylogged, trolled, oror poisoned gradually or starved...for a while anyway

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 06:25:10 pm
content: I've already repeated this concept 10 times: switch to linux and if you must, use windows offline only. Problem solved.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 06:54:46 pm
content: I don't so much care about my privacy as I don't want MS making money off tracking my activities. I've stuck with Windows 7, it's at least a bit more secure than 10 and it sure looks and feels a whole lot nicer. Win10 has that half baked retro open source feel.

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 07:26:04 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 08, 2017, 12:56:58 amOf course Microsoft are watching you. They are trying to collect an monetize information about you the same way google and facebook do. Why do you think they built all the 'telemetry' into Windows 10 then rammed it down people's throats for free? Why do you think they are actually paying people to use Bing (while logged into their Microsoft accounts)?You have to be pretty dumb not to realise that, however, the dumb are Microsoft's target - much easier to take money from the dumb.

author: gameridian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 08:04:44 pm
content: Without even getting into the privacy discussion, Windows 10 is not taking the user's bandwidth into consideration. I live in an area where ISDN connections are fairly common and the bandwidth can be very poor. In cases of home networks with multiple computers it's questionable who uses more data, the users or the OS. We shouldn't have to rely on an external firewall to prevent the OS from abusing the internet connection. Windows 10 should give the user more control over how it uses the internet.Windows 10 default settings are brutal and while there are settings that can be toggled to reduce the OS's data usage, an off switch would be preferred.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 08:19:48 pm
content: Quote from: gameridian on June 08, 2017, 08:04:44 pm!!! Windows does notneedthe internet and should not connect to it or use it unless specifically permitted to by the user.As I see it, this is the fundamental problem with Microsoft, because with Windows 10 they are attempting to take control of the PC away from the owner/user and give it to the OS. That is wrong.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 10:41:21 pm
content: Their target market is corporate partners and PC security clueless Mr and Mrs AverageSafe to assume MS won't be closing their doors anytime soonBesides what's wrong with Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 anyway?Which programs run on Windows 10 you REALLY NEED.. that won't run on 7, 8, and 8.1 ?If you spend (waste) an afternoon stripping 10 down by deselecting all the auto junk (silently praying stuff still works later)it performs like an 8.1 plucked turkey

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 12:12:13 am
content: If 8 had not driven me to Linux, 10 would have. Glad I don't really deal with MS's bullcrap anymore. Yeah everything you do online is monitored, but I at very least want privacy on my own computer in my own home. Though sadly even that is limited because of the Intel backdoor, it does not really matter what OS you run. But I at least do what I can to try to stay under the radar. They tend to go after the low hanging fruit, though I suppose one could argue that they might actually go after the ones who try harder to stay private, too.When I do need windows for something, I use a VM with XP or 7.

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 02:33:58 am
content: Gee some of you are paranoid. Yep, every site you visit collects "metrics" or "telemetry". Every google search, you name it.So far, they send me targeted ads. Big whoop. I know what I do and don't want to buy. And you'll find the OS is not really sending anything of much consequence.Again, if you are so concerned, you can turn it off, block it, whatever. But consider your credit card spending habits tell "teh evil peoples" much more than how many times you open Excel, or how long you spend on the PC, or whatever your concerns are.It's a storm in a teacup. And we're all already far too far down the path of sharing information online to try and wind things back - better to find coping strategies, than delaying the inevitable.cheers,

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:10:04 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 09, 2017, 02:33:58 amThe OS isn't a "site". It's sole purpose is to run the computer. I do not have to visit those sites. I can run a computer just fine without ever accessing the internet and did so for over a decade. A computer will not run without an OS.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:12:39 am
content: Someone will come up with an easy way to water down the search results...Imagine for every search you do, the SDB (Search Dilution BotTMfires up and performs 100 searches on random stuff ) maybe from some predefined/ customizable list of words and phrasesIt would make a neat plug in, especially if for every search it was impersonating any one of the known browsers.1000 people using it would create an additional 100000 searches for google, bing, whoever to keep track of and add to their aggregate results.I liiiiike it.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:22:27 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 09, 2017, 02:33:58 amDo you have curtains, do you have walls that are non transparant, do you close the door when you go to the bathroom?You must be paranoid then.

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:52:33 am
content: There are many more things to be more concerned about than MS trying to make money from my habits.If it still pings you, setup windows firewall to allow only port 80, 443 & 53 from the browser of your choice only. And then do that again on your router. No-phone-home any more.We have to face the fact we've gone down a path we can't return in terms of privacy of the individual. I don't think it's that great, but it just "is". Take the precautions you feel you need to take, but I certainly wont be losing any sleep over what data Win 10 is "mining" from me.cheers,

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:51:27 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 09, 2017, 03:52:33 amMicrosoft (and others) get away with collecting and collating so much personal information because so many morons let them.We know people who have given up trying to maintain their privacy complain and try to ridicule those that haven't because thinking and claiming no one else has privacy makes you feel better about giving away yours.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 12:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on June 07, 2017, 10:07:30 pmDell will happily supply you with laptops with no camera, I've spent many hours with Latitude E5450s that have no camera installed, HP will do the same on their Elitebook range, you just need to ask.If you're stuck with machines that have cameras then its a simple matter to pop the bezel on the screen and unplug them.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 12:37:42 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 09, 2017, 02:33:58 amApart from the intrusiveness of targeted ads which I have to pay to download, I object to the erosion of privacy thorough the creeping blanket surveillance, I've done nothing wrong so why should I have to accept the possibility/probability that my actions can be monitored wherever I go?Before anyone even considers blathering on about terrorism as a justification, I live here:https://goo.gl/maps/AWdCXCiJjzE2Which is roughly equidistant from Warrington and Manchester, both cities which have had more than their share of terrorist attacks, I *still* believe that I should be able to live my life un-monitored by advertisers, law enforcement organisations and governments unless I choose otherwise or they have just and provable cause to do so (and yes, I'm aware of the irony of using Google to show my location).Sorry, it really *pisses* me off when people trot out the 'so what' or the fatally flawed 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' line of thought

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 02:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on June 08, 2017, 08:19:48 pmTrue. Windows10 is a spyware OS in my opinion, and the thing escalated to the next level when they loaded it with all that pre-bundled stuff that you can't even uninstall...

author: Hensingler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 07:09:26 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 09, 2017, 02:33:58 amQuoteSo they are using the collected information to determine your health insurance premiums (and if you get any) and it really isn't so much of a stretch to see heath nazis getting governments to ration health care based on 'health' of your lifestyle sniffed from you computer, net, and phone activity.Expect your credit rating to be influenced by the personal information you are willingly giving as well.All these assessments won't be very accurate but companies and governments won't care because they will be much cheaper than accurate ones.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on June 09, 2017, 12:37:42 pmAnd the fact that those areas got attacks kinda shows that all this data collection is pure BS and does not even stop terrorism. They just use terrorism as an excuse to justify it.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:49:54 pm
content: Welcome back to 1984

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 06:12:31 am
content: If you want my info you must:Ask meTell me whyTell me who its going toPay for it, corporations charge us for everything, you want my data its ging to cost you, its the free market remember?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 07:05:58 am
content: Should we trust software made by:However, these guys did make aregistry editorwith address bar. So you could finally copy&paste the registry key.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 07:12:07 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 09, 2017, 10:41:40 pmOf course it stops terrorism. With all that collection, big corps are no longerterrifiedof not being able to turn people into a product, and governments are no longerterrifiedof not being able to blackmail people into obedience. And idiots only care about the "next big thing" anyway so there's even lessterrorto go around.Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 12, 2017, 07:05:58 amPerhaps we should have stuck with the individual config (INI) files of old. Still works out well for UNIX systems.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 03:15:17 pm
content: One question for people far more knowledgeable than myself:My main computer runs from a wireless network. If I disable (from Windows) the WiFi adapter at the times I'm not specifically accessing the web, that should be sufficient to effectively block the spying?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 03:19:29 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 12, 2017, 03:15:17 pmI have a high expectation that MS likely caches a lot of information, so I wouldn't think that would be a primary defense.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 03:35:50 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on June 12, 2017, 03:15:17 pmNo. You will simply not have any web browsing history during that time.Windows stores data about you and what you do on your PC in several places and in several ways. I only know some of what Windows 7 does and as I understand it, Windows 10 is at least an order of magnitude more invasive.For instance, there are registry keys called "shellbags". This is a history of every file you open and where it was located. Files could be anywhere, even on an encrypted or network drive, and the location is still recorded. So even if you have "top secret" stuff on a removable, encrypted drive, anyone can poke around in your Windows registry and find that out.That is just one example.

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 02:03:30 am
content: I don't see anyone bringing any objective information to this...discussion.This article has a good summary, with a link to the MS terms and conditions :https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/08/what-windows-10s-privacy-nightmare-settings-actually-do/Look, I agree that they do try and push the envelope too far. And they, and Google, and Amazon, and Facebook will continue to do so (& I'm powerless to stop any of that), but I try and assess the relative risks, what precautions I should take and how onerous they are compared to the information I'm "leaking" via the OS. For example, during install I made sure I screwed down all the Win 10 privacy settings, simply because they leaked information with zero benefit for me.I have no problem with people using alternative OSes if they feel the need, but are they really that much more secure? I really am not certain, I haven't researched it properly.I did however research what Win 10 was up to once people started getting a bit heated about it, and found some annoyances, but nothing to really make me worried. YMMV.cheers,

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 02:21:10 am
content: the real solution is to round up all the "spy's" and throw them off a cliff or down a mine shaft.i'll tell you now, as someone who has studied history - we arent far away from gulags and concentration camps again.and guess how "they" decide who goes in them!!it's not speculation - we'v seen it before.1: gather as much data as possible on as many people as possible.2: make a list of things you dont like, or fear.3: cross reference the list against the personal records you created.4: create a "score" for how many hits you get against each person's record.5: start rounding them up for disposal or re-education..i'll say it again, it's not speculation - it's how the Bolsheviks killed over 80 million people in eastern europe!!!the same people now control most western governments!

author: sibeen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 02:57:57 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 13, 2017, 02:21:10 amBugger me, the things you learn. The bolshies are in charge of most western governments.*wanders off to ponder*

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 03:26:44 am
content: yes,they have many labels depending on what country your in.americans know them as "liberals" for example.in the middle-east they are a bit more direct and call them jews.(because the bolsheviks were all jews)in europe they are often refered to as zionists - even by each other.but regardless of the label you use, the mentality and beliefs are exactly the same.unfortunatly so are some of the key players like the rothchilds and soros - both of which where very busy back then directing or participating in it.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 09:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: sibeen on June 13, 2017, 02:57:57 amYou are spot-on!Quote from: stj on June 13, 2017, 03:26:44 amEverything you wrote is more than true! Even though I think that you forgot to mention the Bolsheviks' vast funding (among others' like Freud, Trotsky, Henry Kissinger, etc.) by the New York "B'nai B'rith" (or “Sons of the Covenant” in Aramaic) Jewish masonic Lodge...As there is no magnet with ONLY ONE magnetic pole (either North or South), or a battery with ONLY ONE electric pole (either Positive or Negative), do never forget that the very instant thePolitical Leftwas created (in 1807 with the aid of Napoleon Bonaparte, who gave theGreat Sanhedrina permanent seat in the French Imperial Parliament Assembly in exchange for more loans from the Rothschilds he could not afford, in order to keep the French colonies of the New World), the same exactly moment thePolitical Rightwing was also created (by the very same people!). Does it remind the Confucian (see:Mongolian[or, more appropriately, "Khazarian," in the present case] rather that 'Jewish') tactic under the international term "Divide and Conquer"?If anyone wants to learn more, please search for the Frank L. Britton's 1998 book under the title "Behind Communism" where it can be seen what exactly the 1772 decree known as the "Pale of Settlement" really was or what the term "Ghetto" (originally: "Kahal") really means and when & why it was introduced as a term. For even more information on that subject matter, you can search amongst others for Juri Lina's books "Under the Sign of the Scorpion (2002)" and "Architects of Deception (2004)."All of these specific propositions of mine above can still be found on-line!-George

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:53:15 am
content: The thing people don't realize is once this data is collected, they will keep it forever. They have large data centres in Utah for this exact reason and I'm sure they have some in undisclosed locations too. As a consumer you can buy an 8TB drive now. That is a LOT of data, especially compressed. Imagine what the government agencies like the NSA have access to. It's nothing for them to store all the info forever.So you figure you have nothing to hide, until you do. You might say something in an online conversation that at the time is no big deal, but turns out to be inappropriate later. You decide to go work for the public sector, or perhaps even run in politics. Now that thing you said 10 years ago comes back and haunts you because they have a record of it. How do you think all these revelations about political candidates come out. Like the whole Trump/Russia thing. They just need to dig up data they have on him. They have that same data on all of us.So by using OSes like win10 or devices that spy on you, it increases that data. It's hard to be 100% private these days unless you completely disconnect from the internet and turn your house into a Faraday cage, but every bit of effort can still help.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 02:36:48 am
content: you gave up your privacy once you decided to go on the internet, get a cell phone, etc. Unfortunately technology is not always a step in the right direction. This is the world we live in today. A world that has been run by the Rothschilds, Rockefellers and their cohorts way before the internet age. Collect this data.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 03:18:56 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 14, 2017, 01:53:15 amthere is a large underground computer center recently built in israel by the u.n.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 04:25:18 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 14, 2017, 03:18:56 amThat's true!And, oddly, that secret $100 Million underground facility outside Tel Aviv is called'Site 911'while along with this one there is another similar project called'911 Phase 2'...-George

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 04:38:48 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 14, 2017, 01:53:15 amDid you actually read what Win 10 collects from you, from that article and from the MS site? There is no "conversational" data captured. or sent. or stored. Metadata at worst (which I will agree can be rather detailed in some ways).I regret the erosion of privacy that has occurred over the years, and I in no way subscribe to the "if you have nothing to hide, then you're ok" mantra either. I just feel there is no point railing against Windows 10 or any other OS, or website for that matter. IF we wish to gain some of the benefits we have from our interconnected world, then we're going to have to suffer some sort of downside. I think the best we can do is beproperly informedso we're making sensible decisions about how to protect our privacy the best way we can.Getting overwrought over one OS's methodology doesn't seem like the best way to invest time to maintain that veil of privacy; it expends all our precious effort in one small area, potentially missing another which may be just as significant (eg, mobile phones).cheers,edit : typo

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:32:24 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on June 07, 2017, 06:12:05 pmI don't have a camera

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:34:21 am
content: that's o.k.they have a camera for you!

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:39:03 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 14, 2017, 05:34:21 amYeahI agree. Luckily I stick to 7. ISE doesn't run properly under W10

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 05:58:58 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 04:38:48 amI was wondering if you were just a new user with a serious case of normalcy bias, or if you perhaps have a 'stake' in dissing concerns about Microsoft's practices (Win10 being the most blatant example.)But now you say "no 'conversational' data captured. or sent. or stored." I'm pretty certain of the answer.Do I need to remind anyone to google "win10 keylogger"?Also the phrase "no conversational data captured" sounds like something straight out of a talking points list. No one would say that off the cuff.----- Edit to insert dotted line here. The above in reply to VulcanBB18. Below is a general comment to those saying .... (not VulcanBB18. Re-reading I can see how he thought it was all directed to him. My mistake.)Hearing people say "I have nothing to hide, so don't care if Microsoft (or the government) spies on what I do on my PC", and "it's all just business profit motive, they sell the data, so what?" fills me with despair.You guys apparently know *nothing at all* about history. You don't understand this kind of creeping fascism never stops, until there are death camps and large portions of the population being executed for thought crimes.Have you never heard the terms 'red list' and 'blue list'? 'FEMA camps'? US Stockpile mass grave coffins?Or you have, but instantly dismissed such things as tin foil fantasies? Then I guess you don't know about real history such as the Holodomor, the Cambodian killing fields, the deliberate starving to death of around 1.7 million German POWs by the Allies after WWII, ... I could fill a page with listing such atrocities. One thing in common - a government deciding a large number of people (with no means of defending themselves) had to be killed 'for the greater good'.This stuff is not hypothetical. There are strong indications this was actually the plan once Hillary was elected.Google obama unmasked 20 million Americans. Check it out. The administration was actually making lists of people whose politics they didn't like. Names and addresses.Incidentally, a couple of years ago a friend of mine found some forum conversations by high level Australian government IT guys, talking about a database holding detailed personal information on all Australians. It wasn't a 'what if', it was an existing system they had.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 06:17:51 am
content: Maybe you shouldn't use references to vague forums or history. Just use Turkey.Meanwhile, anyone using Windows 10 will have all the images they view hashed and uploaded to verify your not looking at the wrong kind of nsfw.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 07:35:09 am
content: and we know it takes a frame from your webcam and sends it home when your system boots or you plug one in.that's been verified with wireshark.any guesses if it uses a microphone if you have one!hey ALEXA - are you streaming the background audio to a computer-center in israel for storage & analysis?

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:28:22 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 13, 2017, 03:26:44 amSome interesting accusations, given that a large chunk of the most virulent anti-Semitic/Israel garbage/paranoia out there is promulgated by the lunar extreme of the self-titled "liberal" left. And no, the Bolsheviks were not all Jews. Really, you claim to be well read in history and then you post the drivel of a simpleton that could have been lifted from the pages ofMein Kampf.If Dave and Simon, the two who moderate this place and occasionally delete inappropriate content, have actually read the crap posted to the thread and see nothing to act upon, then they are just a pair of fuck heads, seriously.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:43:52 am
content: You're late for the party dude, train delays ?Let the usual festivities beginEdit: more likely this post will self destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:48:47 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 14, 2017, 09:28:22 amDave needs more moderators here, preferably in multiple time zones. It is too much for a couple of guys to watch, especially when such a large portion of the membership are on opposite sides of the planet. Dave and Simon can only do so much.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:52:24 am
content: He's just pre-insulted them straight upLet's see how that goes down

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:54:23 am
content: He could have worded that better, to be sure, but he is still correct that some moderation is needed. Either by the people posting or the admins, doesn't matter which.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:56:32 am
content: So you are implying he's correct and the others are WRONG and require 'moderation' ?LET'S SEE IT

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:06:02 am
content: Moderation... ie censorship.Israel is a bully...oh wait you can't say that...it's anti-semitic...

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:07:40 am
content: sure looks that way, all those conspiracy dudes on youtube may be on to something, hmmm

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:16:04 am
content: Just for the record in case it gets 'accidently' deleted due to a computer malfunction, basement flood in the server room,rogue mouse jumping on the Delete key, or any other flavor ofQuote from: GK on June 14, 2017, 09:28:22 am

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:19:02 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 14, 2017, 10:16:04 amRAID drive.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:20:53 am
content: Drug RAID ?

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:22:27 am
content: MIRRORING in case of data loss

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:43:11 am
content: I don't use Windows 10 and if I do, all what M$ can find on my main PC is just C, VHDL and VB .NET code and a hundreds of gigs of Osu beatmapsThe PC that I use to do important shit runs XP and it is always offline.Good luck, M$.My friend's office even bans W10

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 10:45:09 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 14, 2017, 09:28:22 amTRUTH NEEDS NO PROTECTION.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 11:03:58 am
content: Quote from: Ushiwaka on June 14, 2017, 10:43:11 amWe're in the testing stages of a planned business wide roll out of W10 as well as BYOD, it's going to be horrendous.

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 11:18:12 am
content: Quote from: CJay on June 14, 2017, 11:03:58 amA little fact about IBM:They don't use W10 for their employees' PCs. They use W7

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:08:07 pm
content: just so long as they know the later service-packs added win10 level "metrics collection"

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 14, 2017, 05:58:58 amSeriously... WTF?I have no agenda here other than trying to remain objective. I've worked in IT for over 22 years. Back in the early 90's I started at a tiny company assembling PCs running Win 3.1 or Win95, and now help run back-end infrastructure for an organisation of over 10,000 people. I know how assess risks of "data leakage". I referenced conversational data only because it appeared people seemed to think that windows 10 is capturing, and sending "things you type"...somewhere. That is a load of garbage.You bring no evidence to the table. Show me one shred of evidence for the assertions you're spouting. I provided a link of someone doing an analysis of the Win10 privacy settings, and also the MS policies. I've read the policies, the analysis and other analyses, and while not 100% happy, didn't lose my mind thinking that MS was collecting information I was concerned about.And please, I made a special point of saying that I DO NOT subscribe to the "If you have nothing to hide, you'll be fine" mantra. That is a load of BS.The rest of your post trails off into a bizarre rant. To say the parallels you are drawing are tenuous, is a massive understatement.See all the conspiracies you want. I will actually go and search out real information, weigh that up, and see how it fits with the world at large. I have to say, I think your view looks particularly paranoid.I have many more valuable things to do with my time, than fret and worry that Win 10 is "spying on me". This is typed on a Win 10 box... Oooo! Scary. Sheesh.I thought this was a site of logical thinkers. It doesn't appear to be the case.cheers,

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:34:29 pm
content: Quote from: Ushiwaka on June 14, 2017, 11:18:12 amProof? Is there any?Even if they do still *all* use Win 7 (very unlikely), it is much more likely that is because of licensing or logistics (costs for roll-out, non-compliant Win10 hardware, existing corporate software not compatible with Win 10), than some misplaced thoughts that "win 10 is spying on me".Additionally, their employees will be behind massive corporate firewalls. Serious kit, which will only allow out EXACTLY what the IBM security people want to let out. Even *if* win10 was as half as malicous as some here seem to think, it could all be blocked, 100% by such firewalls.please, bring evidence of the assertions, or we're all just sitting down the pub, talking bull$hit.cheers,

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:45:12 pm
content: It's a great sell bub, but no one's buyin today, sorry

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:48:04 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:34:29 pmMy mom is an IBMerNeed more proof?And every single person in my mom's office uses W7 (if they used a PC, which is a Thinkpad, which is provided to the employees)

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 12:57:13 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:17:55 pmThere are EEs, techs, hobbyists and many people interested in electronics hereI don't how many are logical thinkers, but if they can spot BS I reckon it qualifies them as suchNo one needs an intrusive operating system, end of storyI have nothing to hide(do crusty undies count?). so therefore it's ok for some corpoRATion I know NOTHING about, except milking me with OEM fees on every PC I purchase, to keep tabs on my surfing and FRUGAL spending habits,and other reasons that THEY CHOOSE TO HIDE.Enjoy Win 10or upgrade to Win 7 when you've had enough

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:04:07 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 14, 2017, 12:57:13 pmWindoze 10 = RAT daddy (w/o telemetry and its bells and whistles disabled)

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:34:29 pmThe office block I'm sat in right now has ~750 employees in it out of a total of around 340,000 worldwide, almost all on Win 7 (some are on XP, others on Redhat, for legacy or special project work).I've got laptops from three separate companies on my desk and they've all got W7 Enterprise on them. The silver HP is a brand new Elitebook 820 G3 and there's a pair of Z640 Xeon workstations machines on the desk next to me, the new HP Elitebook and the Z640s were supplied by HP with W7 builds on last week, they've been wiped and had the corporate build put on this morning.I can't name names for confidentiality reasons (and my privacy) but I can assure you it's not BS that *many* companies are avoiding adopting 10 for a variety of reasons including the data leakage (though the enterprise versions are better than the home user versions).It will happen, eventually of course but only when there's no choice.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:32:16 pm
content: @VulcanBB18, you can't win this game. I suggest you do not play. Refer tothis topicfor details.The thing is, Windows 10 does notfeeltransparent enough to some people in what it shares.But, even if these people were to use an open distro, they wouldn't be able to verify for themselves that it doesn't share things, even though it is 100% transparent.They will keep using the sacred Windows 7, whilst obediently installing all provided updates.This discussion has, once more, provenGodwin's law, the discussion is finished.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:32:41 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:34:29 pmCome on, my dear seasoned IT guy!Have you even (carefully) read theWindows 10 EULA? If you have, you should know beyond any doubt that YOUR data belongs to THEM; YOUR Internet connection and bandwidth belong to THEM; YOUR private correspondence belongs to THEM; YOU, yourself, along with YOUR machine are totally owned by THEM...Please, let me throw in a few enlightening links, directly from my archives:-Windows 10 Worst Secret Spins Out Of Controlhttps://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/02/09/windows-10-data-tracking-spying-levels/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix#2f70ed707aa9-Microsoft’s Windows 10 is a privacy nightmare. Here’s how to protect yourselfhttp://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html-Windows 10 privacy policy: Should I be concerned?https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/windows-10-privacy-policy-should-i-be-concerned/3/Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:17:55 pmNow, concerning our fellow EEVBlogger under the screen name 'TerraHertz' let me inform you that he is more than sane, since I know him for long enough time to came to that conclusion. That the things he talks about are not on the TV, between the evening news and the sports, does not mean that these things do not happen:Lack of evidence for something does not mean that this 'something' is inexistent; it merely means that this 'something' is (widely) undocumented.Have you never crossed an undocumented programm/OS instruction/subroutine in your long IT career?Do you fancy reading an undocumented piece I Wrote over here, without fearing that it might diminish my status on these discussion boards?Here you are!Now, there is something that I fully agree with you: That most carefully coined phrase which advocates total submission, the infamous 'I have nothing to hide, so I don't care if they are spying on me,' for which all I have to say is that it shares the same exactly mentality of the following one: 'I enjoy making love, so I do not care if they rape me'...Kind regards,-George

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 01:45:28 pm
content: Don't waste your time guys, Mr. IT ram upgrade jedi from the 90s has done a runner

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 02:06:43 pm
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 14, 2017, 12:17:55 pmhttp://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/783098/windows-10-turn-off-microsoft-secret-keyloggerOne article of many. Google win10 keylogger.Don't bother pleading "but muh typings don't show up in packets" since once can assume the data is compressed/encrypted, and spooled for playback, possibly only when asked for.Btw, is media file DRM fingerprint collection and transmission, then targeted deletion of media files deemed to be non-DRM-kosher, what you would would consider 'only metadata collection'?QuoteMS policies, visible win10 'privacy settings'... bah. The trouble is, Microsoft lies and are devious snakes. Few believe anything MS says anymore. I'm not one of those who do believe MS - neither their public statements or visible settings in their OS.QuoteI didn't intend to imply you did. Others made such comments and that was in reply to them. Post edited for clarity.QuoteMy point is not 'parallels', it's an inference. OS-spyware has never happened before on this scale, because the technology was not there. I'm commenting on a linkage ofintent, in which the mindset of psychopaths who like to monitor and control everything they can, always leads to certain outcomes. This time we're seeing an early stage right in our faces, because we all use PCs, and the psychopaths can't help themselves and are pushing very obviously, in ways that affect Win10 users directly.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:21:22 am
content: I'd love to know, from more lawyery types around here, about how enforceable the Windows 10 EULA is in Oz. Over here, courts can (and often have) forcefully nullified terms of a contract on the basis of unconscionable conduct, or on the basis that the requisite conditions for validation of a contract were not all present.Forced updates, total privacy annihilation, and responsibility evasion is all within the Windows 10 EULA, but how much of that is actually enforceable in Oz?Last year's "Get Windows 10" fiasco may even fall under that category (in fact, the contract may not even be valid as a user did not have the opportunity to read the new EULA, and therefore could not consent to it).

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:57:14 am
content: There also needs to be a limit to how long an EULA can be, they make these things so long and KNOW that no person in their right mind would actually sit there read, and interpret the whole thing. You would need a lawyer with you just to install a piece of software. Basically if you have so many ifs and buts in your contract that it's rendered ridiculously complicated, it should just be nullified.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:03:14 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 15, 2017, 01:57:14 amThe reason they are so long is so to allow Microsoft some cover in case something goes wrong as a result of their actions, with little room for the user to wiggle out of it, not so that the user misses hidden items within the contract. I don't think any court will nullify a contract on the basis that it is too long.

author: VulcanBB18
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:13:08 am
content: Okay guys, I'm going to back away from this discussion, because :- Some of you aren't reading my posts properly - you're suggesting things I should do, or read, which I have already mentioned in my previous posts. Or accusing me of being or thinking certain things, which are in no way true or that I have already said I disagree with.and- many of you are bringing anecdote as evidence, or assuming correlation equals causation, and using that to bolster beliefs that are bordering on religious.It's no skin off my nose if you wish to avoid Win 10 like the plague, does not affect me one iota. It simply struck me as odd that a bunch of mostly technical folks seemed so invested and upset about something that I saw was at the annoyance level, and I hoped I might be able to inject a little objectivity to find some middle ground.I certainly advocate keeping vigilant and not being complacent about the data that is being amassed about us from many different vectors. That you are all aware that there are potential issues with ongoing data collection of any sort, is at least a good level of awareness above much of the general populous. I just feel some of you need to dial it back a notch. Or two.To the next conversation then!cheers all,

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:46:28 am
content: LOL, so how many miles of gab here from "mostly technical folks"(you generously upgraded from "folks sitting down the pub, talking bull$hit")is it going to take,to convince you of the obvious FACT that W10 is a NO GO for anyone with a PC and a brain ?Besides being a useless upgrade from 7, 8, 8.1 it gathers background information for whatever REAL reasons neither of us will ever find out about (or gas)Why bother with such a white elephant walking on spilled car oil ?what software will W10 run that W7, 8, 8.1 won't ?You are aware computer platforms are for running software, right?Which can include browsers, email, and childish games tooSERIOUS operating systems are not desired to keep tabs on the users nor kiddie walk them through simple computing commands,nor suggest crap they don't need or want based on the collected user habits data,which wastes resources running in the background, like a spreading disease or wild weedAverage users that pay the MS licensing fees do not volunteer to be UNPAID beta testers, especially for dud features.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:00:41 am
content: here is something for company's and company tech's to take in:you have a legal obligation to protect your customer / client records - doubly so if it includes medical or financial data.and you DO KNOW that win10 contains data collection routines you cant fully - if at all shut down.therefore, you are wide open to prosecution and/or customer lawsuits if you use win10 on your company network!the same goes for win7 if you installed every update.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:02:48 am
content: one other thing,if your company spent years developing some new thing, dont act surprised if you see someone else selling it before you!!!because m$ probably has your schems, cad files & sourcecode!!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:08:22 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 15, 2017, 03:02:48 amBANG !!!Right on the money

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:33:26 am
content: Quote from: VulcanBB18 on June 15, 2017, 02:13:08 amI'll "dial it back a notch" if Microsoft finds the courage to:Remove Windows Genuine Advantage + activation, a la Windows 2000 and earlier.Remove OS-enforced DRMs.Remove the OBVIOUS spyware built into Windows 10, and the blatant disregard for privacy.Promise toNEVER engage in any more forced-upgrade campaigns against users of their older products who do not want upgrade.Stop treating users as beta-testers without their consent, forcing them to take updates that break things on a regular basis.Remove the requirement to have an "Advertising ID" present. Yes I know it's resettable, but guess what? It wasn't there on Windows 7 and earlier. I don't know about Windows 8/8.1 since they are piles of shit and I do not use them.Stop trying to get users to sign in with a MS account, and get away with it by obscuring the link to sign in without one and claim to be giving users a fair choice.Respond to concerns about what, how,and whyinformation is collected/transmitted in a reasonable fashion, rather than just hiding away and assuming everyone will just forget about the whole thing.Stop trying to weed hardware restrictions into OEM products in the name of "security." I don't care much for Signature Edition PCs as they are from Microsoft, but don't tell me what OS I can and can't install on hardware I legally and rightfully own.Stop treating its users as children with silly Fisher Price UIs. I've had this complaint since Windows XP, and the situation is getting worse and worse.Stop trying to end promised support for working products prematurely, for example, not allowing Windows 7 to receive security updates on the latest processors, forcing/enticing Intel and AMD to avoid supporting Windows 7, etc. despite their promise that Windows 7 would be supported until 2020.I could continue, but hopefully by now you, the top-class logically-thinking IT guy, would certainly be able to understand why people are angry at Microsoft. None of us have just pulled it out of thin air you know.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 09:02:31 am
content: Quote from: P90 on June 14, 2017, 10:06:02 amYou have got to be kidding. Holding the Israeli government to reasoned scrutiny isn't anti-Semitic. Equating Jewishness (as both an ethnic identity and a religious one) to Bolshevism and the ridiculous idea of an impending worldwide, Zionist-lead domination and genocide is absolutely, quintessentially so. But, admittedly, such subtleties are lost on unintelligent bigots; whom I might add collectively still serve as the justification for the Jewish state.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 09:03:36 am
content: Quote from: stj on June 14, 2017, 10:45:09 amLOL, well you are free to get back to weaving your basket then.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 09:35:38 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 15, 2017, 09:02:31 amThis "anti-semetism" isn't such a bad thing. Kind of like "Islamophobia" or "un-christian" or whatever bullshit "anti" term the religious like to use to denounce those who don't subscribe to their crap.Anyway, about Windows 10...

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 10:23:39 am
content: So criticizing Windows 10 is ... anti privacey-itic?

author: Ushiwaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 10:35:34 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 15, 2017, 03:08:22 amoh shit imma wipe windows out of existence and use dosautocad r14 days are back

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 10:42:45 am
content: Quote from: X on June 15, 2017, 09:35:38 amYou know, in the last ten years or so or maybe more I've not only lost the motivation but have also developed a strong aversion to declaring myself an Atheist for two primary reasons. The first reason is that God is an irrelevancy. Really, it just doesn't make sense to award undue credit or distinction to a meaningless concept that has no intellectual value by wearing such a label. The second reason is that it invariably lumps me into the unfortunately company of real fucking intellectuals just like you. I think that's about as polite as I can put it in a meaningfully succinct way. I sincerely hope that I haven't crossed over any fine line of civility.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 10:55:19 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 15, 2017, 10:23:39 amNo, it'santi-parasitic.But the real dilemma is whether or not it's PC to criticise an operating system meant for a PC?Quote from: GK on June 15, 2017, 10:42:45 amWhat made you think it is necessary to mention this in response to my statement?Quote from: GK on June 15, 2017, 10:42:45 amSo rather than engage in civil discourse, you would rather resort to double-standards and unnecessary snide remarks. Your choice, but what you take offence to is not my problem.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:41:03 pm
content: Quote from: stj on June 15, 2017, 03:02:48 amThere is probably serious money in that for them, actually. They could start a separate Chinese company, and then funnel all that data to that company, and then the Chinese company sells the data to other companies. It would be perfectly legal too because China does not have IP laws. Personally, I hate IP laws, I think people should be able to design and build what they want, how they want and not be restricted just because someone else already did it, but in this case what I'd really have an issue with is HOW they get the data (something that was not actually published). Of course I really doubt they would do this, but they could.I think the real purpose of the spying is the same as Google, it's for sending targetted ads. Eventually you will see ads within Windows based on how you use your computer.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:49:16 pm
content: well we know the cia uses it's intercepts to game the stockmarket,because they "shorted" several u.s. airlines days before 9/11we also know they tapped airbus and sold/gave the info to boeing - costing airbus billions in a deal with the saudi's they subsequently lostso if you think it's about preventing crime - think again!!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 12:06:29 am
content: I thought this TMI post would be reported, nuked and history by nowThe local information gatekeepers must running out of steam, or decided to gracefully bail with all the leaked internet info available EVERYWHERE,or too busy elsewhere,perhaps at that infamous post"Fluke 87V (2017) lacking quality control?"defending a bought out 'reputation-driven' company...run by profit-driven investors ? nope, can't happen

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 12:53:44 am
content: It is actually against China's best interest for them to have IP laws. If they introduced IP laws their GDP will plummet.Talking about data mining, the data mining can happen in very subtle ways, and many protocols have opportunities for side channel transmissions, which appear benign ("oh I know that packet, that's my HTTP request because I want to access this website.") but actually contain extra information.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 09:50:23 am
content: Quote from: X on June 15, 2017, 10:55:19 amI hardly could have made my irony plainer. When someone drops their dacks and takes a dump in public, the person that points and yells "that's fucking disgusting" isn't the uncivil one. Perhaps you are so genuinely lacking in perspective that you cannot fathom why your attempt to excuse the turd as smelling like perfume doesn't exactly deserve a polite response, but my capacity for charity has limits and I am not going to spell it out for you. Your ignorance is not my problem.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 10:12:44 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 16, 2017, 09:50:23 amI have not done any of what you are accusing me of, and instead of telling me what I have done wrong and why it is wrong in your mind, you launched right into an irrelevant tirade about how you don't label yourself as Atheist, one reason being because it "lumps  in the unfortunately company of real fucking intellectuals just like ."

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2017, 10:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: X on June 16, 2017, 10:12:44 amBack on topic at once! Before a useful thread becomes useless.What does this have to do with the software I mentioned?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 12:49:46 am
content: It's been a great post so far, compliments to the chefhopefully it's got some more juice left to show up more of W10s intrusive PC littering capabilities