My Firefox says it is about to die... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:57:22 am
content: My Firefox says it is about to die, what am I supposed to do?See attached photos...All my systems are Windows 7 pro. Their OS cannot be upgraded.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:08:41 am
content: Condolences.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:08:49 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 09:57:22 amSwitch to Linux.But seriously having a to old browser can also break the ability to do banking. I had to upgrade from Ubuntu 16 to Linux Mint 20 because of this. Why not Ubuntu 20, because I did not like their new user interface.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:09:43 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 25, 2025, 10:08:41 amIt is not dead yet

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:11:31 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 09:57:22 amRun linux as a guest in a VM, where the host is Win7. Run firefox in linux.Better still, just run linux, which still works very nicely on WinXP era machines.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:12:40 am
content: Update your OS, as it's a security hazard to run Windows 7. That may or may not require hardware changes, most systems can be made to run W11 even if they need a TPM as there are ways around that requirement.There are 'skins' that make W10/W11 work a lot like W7 if you like the older look or start menu, etc., but there is no way to make existing W7 secure for internet browsing, since Microsoft don't support it anymore.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:17:27 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 25, 2025, 10:08:49 amUbuntu GUIdidstart sucking a few years ago, so I abandoned it. Fortunately there are manymanyalternatives that you can play with.I seem to have stuck with XFce, since one of its variants mimics the WinXP GUI - small, unobtrusive, and nothing becomes hidden because I haven't used it recently. You can either get xubuntu or could probably install Xfce as an alternative GUI. So did Win GUIs since Win7, of course. Can't tell what's clickable, what's a status indicator, what's a patch of colour, crap with keyboards.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:18:27 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 25, 2025, 10:08:49 amI can only spend 5 minutes doing the switch., Everything must be perfect. My old Protel cad software needs to work off the bat as well as some of my old 'freebasic' code with USB serial converters.Also, Linux will need drivers for my old HP Pavilion laptop. Audio needs to work right off the bat as well as other system with an Nvidia GT440, old AMD Phenomenon II x4 955 processor and motherboard with custom raid 0 configured drives, and again, the audio must function as well at my ATI remote wonder wireless remote control with its USB dongle. Old laser printer drivers and 'freebasic' code.I can have no data losses. No downtime. No learning curve. Every piece of hardware I use is in use...I also have limited internet download bandwidth.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:23:01 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 10:12:40 amLast time I tried, it failed and trashed my drives. Had to do a full windows 7 install to get everything working a proper full potential once again. Also, finding my old floppy drive for my motherboard's raid drivers as well as it's floppy raid controller disc required during install to see the motherboard HD controller might no longer be available to me.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:30:53 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:23:01 amI would recommend backing up before any update of any OS. And just doing a clean install and restoring personal files, applications etc. In theory Win7 can upgrade to Win10 and then Win11, but I would not trust it myself.Alternatively buy a new drive and dual boot until you're comfortable on the new OS.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:34:34 am
content: I can't think of any solution that will allow you to switch in 5 minutes. Linux runs most stuff out of the box without needing to search for drivers, however if you feel that your system issounusual then I suggest that you install virtualbox, then install a Linux Mint virtual machine in virtualbox. Firefox comes a standard.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:35:51 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 10:30:53 amAgain, a theoretical reasonable path, but Win10 doesn't seem to like my motherboard. And if it doesn't work, I wasted buying a useless set of drives and spent who knows how many hours trying to get it to work as installing windows usually takes a few hours, then all the apps, verifying each one works would take another 2-3 days.Upgrading my system would probably cost me a few k$, and again, there is no guarantee that all my apps will work. Especially the all important 16bit and 32bit apps.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:36:50 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:18:27 amYou are stuffed, unless you use linux (or presumably another Win OS) in a virtual machine.For the specific hardware compatibility you mention, download a live Linux distribution, put it on a USB stick, set your Win7 machine to boot from USB, insert USB and reboot.The relevant linux will boot, explore the hardware, and allow you to run the applications from USB - albeit more slowly than normal. Suck your use cases, and seeThe Win7 installation will be untouched; simply remove the USB, reboot, and your Win7 will reappear.I can't comment on your specific applications, but WINE is good with many bits of older software. USB devices rarely need specific drivers installed, but it is often necessary to edit text files in the /etc/udev/rules.d directory.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:40:05 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:35:51 amMost likely, the issue is the TPM, Win10 and 11 require a TPM now, if your CPU does not have fTPM you will either have to buy a TPM add on (if your board has a socket for one), or find a workaround that disables TPM on Windows. TPM is needed for all the new security features that... everyone is pushing now. Some applications will not run without a TPM, but Windows is usually fine once installed if TPM is turned off.If the issue is the RAID drivers then you can copy this off an existing Win7 install and provide them during the setup process so it can find the drives, though I think that's only possible if you install from a USB.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:41:43 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 10:36:50 amUSB boot might work on my laptop, but not on my main system as it does not have the ability.And again, wtf is 'edit text files in the /etc/udev/rules.d directory.'?Will my MS Office which is tied to my laptop's OS from HP as part of its install work in Linux?It does not have a normal install file. It is something HP baked into its Win7 recovery boot CD and cannot be installed anywhere else.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:46:40 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 10:17:27 amThere is a Linux Mint version with Xfce, and I'm running it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:46:55 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:35:51 amInstall linux, install and run Win7 as a guest in a VM, run your apps in the VM.Desktops a few years old are frequently available for a pittance at auction. Here's an upcoming one near mehttps://auctions.williamgeorge.com/auctions/9204/wi416237Note that the shiny "new" geegaws like Apple laptops already have bids, but the unglamourous stuff like Dell desktops doesn't.I'm sure there are similar auctions on the other side of the pond!

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:52:25 am
content: About not loosing any data and access to old software, it might be best to get yourself a new computer, if you can afford it of course.This will allow you to install Linux and use it for everything internet related. Use the old Win7 machine for the things that don't work (yet) on the Linux machine. Then over time try to move everything over to the Linux machine, be it under wine or a virtual machine running Win7.Sure there is a bit of a learning curve to troubleshoot Linux when needed, but there is a lot of information on the net.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:55:49 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 25, 2025, 10:52:25 amCant get on the net if your firefox doesn't work, or if you cant get linux installed and working.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:56:49 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:41:43 amSomething you google for when you need it, do it, then forget it.QuoteTwo personal stories similar to yours. Draw your own conclusions.Once I had a Samsung WinXP laptop, and the disk failed. I installed an identical disk, used the WinXP CD I had purchased for a different machine, installed WinXP using the serial numbers on the back of the laptop. Successful. Rebooted, but before WinXP reappeared a Microsoft error screen appeared. Samsung (correctly) said talk to MS. MS incorrectly said it was a Samsung problem. => machine useless. Installed linux in 20 minutes, still working 10 years later.Wanted to buy Win7 to replace my WinXP. MS wouldn't let me. Installed linux in 20 minutes with Win10 in a VM, for emergency use only.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:59:24 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:55:49 amIn my experience installing linux is simpler and faster than Windows: including updates 20mins vs 24 hours(!).pcprogrammer has outlined your best (only?) course of action. Adequate secondhand desktops are very cheap at auction.Given my previous experience with Windows, I now accurately tell people I'm not clever enough to run Windows.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:01:00 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 10:46:55 amYep, my recommendation too.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:04:18 am
content: If support for 16-bit apps is an issue then emulating those on a modern processor will more than likely be fast enough as they would have been built for much slower hardware. So you can run VirtualBox with a 32-bit install of Windows XP or something. You would need to put it into software emulation mode but it'll work.64-bit processors will have no issue running 32-bit apps.And you do not need to spend $k to get a good PC, just buy used parts a few years old, I bet you can get a PC together with new motherboard, CPU and RAM for less than $500. Reuse case, power supply, drives, add on cards etc.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:06:28 am
content: Quote from: woofy on February 25, 2025, 11:01:00 amDoesn't help with his MSOffice being tied to his boot disk. With all his constraints, he is stuffed. The best route is running a new machine in parallel with the existing machines, and slowly migrating.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:09:39 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 10:56:49 amI know how this sounds, but I rely on my Win7 pro main system for quite a bit. And a lot of it runs my exercise equipment, wireless remote sound system, Youtube video and .x265 home media playback, and surround system as well as work and presentation apps. This all means custom USB interface dongles and mix of 32bit and 64bit windows apps and special media filters which all run down at the hardware level.I might be able to afford 1 day downtime, but I cannot ping-pong back and forth.If it werent for win10 killing my system the last time I took the free upgrade offer, it might have been a path, but I still did not get the time to verify if even my apps will work.I remember offering my old public domain tabulating desktop calculator with order of operations and functions here at eevblog. To my surprise, no one got it working cause it was just too old. New calculators are garbage without offering simple copy & paste. Will win 10 kill my excellent irreplaceable 200kb calculator app from 1999?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:11:18 am
content: i have to say that current debian with kde "just works" for me.My dad had one of the earlier ultrabooks from HP, i think it was from around 2012, it ran 7 but then at some point he told me it was too slow. put linux or something, which i did. (I also had to replace the NVME which was rotting away. Every day there were new files which weren't readable.)Installing debian 11 was a disaster, it took me two whole days because of missing drivers, and the thing was always quirky after that. XFCE never looked really right.A few months ago he decided to donate it so i had to format it again, this time i installed debian 12. Finally they gave in and we have firmwares out of the box (I agree that we must push for open firmwares though.). Installation completed in half an hour or so including package downloads, booted into KDE, much faster and responsive than 11.. and stable. No krashes or whatever, just as my intel nuc. Almost all the software i use just worked in its linux port, or through wine, or had a linux alternative i could use, And no penalty for games.. some might be even loading faster than they did on windowsIOW, you could give debian 12 live a try

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:18:08 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 11:04:18 amYou can get complete refurbished systems for that price. Auction prices for an "as new" Dell desktop are similar or less, and older machines are probably only 10% of that but with some uncertainties.Personally I wouldn't reuse a power supply.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:25:24 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 11:04:18 amA new PC for piece by piece migration is probably the way to go. But, to replace the functions of my old PC, a 500$ budget wont compete with an old 3k$ PC with running everything in my house. Just a new monitor alone will be 1/2rd the 500$ budget as my old CRTs probably wont be any good on anything other than a high performance analog output video card as they are really high res, high bandwidth, studio grade color matching.I would need a good 2k$ to replace my old main system plus around 750$ to replace my laptop.All in all with additional random things I will probably need to buy, a total reserve of 3 to 3.5k$ would be needed before I decide to go the new PC route.This is realistic. I wont buy used goods without any authentic warranty. I do not know why, but half of everything major electronic I buy always goes wrong in some way and needs to be return.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:25:27 am
content: I found myself in the same situation a year ago, just face the fact that you can't keep using your old hardware and OS forever. Start with a new machine with either W11 or some variation of Linux and start building your applications on that. Maybe you can't get everything to work so you have to look for alternatives but this way you will buy yourself time. As far as office or windows goes, you can buy an official key for less than a mediocre meal so that doesn't have to stop you either. (for instancehttps://www.gamers-outlet.net/)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:28:18 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 25, 2025, 11:11:18 amInstallation time and success sounds about right, but there can be rough edges.Ubuntu and its many derivatives such as Mint is based on Debian, and should be easy to install. Choose KDE, Xfce or whatever window manager feels comfortable.For an abrasively honest of Windows and various Linuxes on various hardware, have a look athttps://www.dedoimedo.com/He has been using them all for decades and wants a simple life, so he criticises them all equally for different reasons.His latest install of MXLinux on a 14yo(!) Asus eeePC netbook took 4 minutes (four!)https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-23-4-kde.html

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:28:39 am
content: I don't recommend Linux. The OS is fine, but the applications are a bit rubbish. Most are open source and look like they were written thirty years ago (which most of them were).One good thing about Linux (I use Mint in a VM) is that it has avoided the awful kludgy mess Microsoft started with W8 as they tried to convert it to a touch UI and ended up with a right clunky old mess for keyboard/mouse users. Linux Mint is WIMP* throughout - hooray!Let me be clear: you can find Linux apps for any purpose under the sun. What you might struggle with is finding apps that you actually enjoy using, unless you're a fan of Windows 95-era software.* For our younger readers: WIMP = windows, icons, menus, pointer. Invented by Xerox a long time ago.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:41:43 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 11:28:18 amI really, really, really dislike canonical, ubuntu and their derivatives, they crap they push/want to push/try to push that make them much more like microsoft/windows. I don't know how much of debian is really left there.I'll take vanilla debian (with backports of course, so we get the stable, older, system but up to date applications) any dayQuote from: SteveThackery on February 25, 2025, 11:28:39 amI don't disagree per se, but:- Programming environments are exactly the same (netbeans, eclipse, vscode and their derivatives)- Kicad is exactly the same- Libreoffice is exactly the same- Inkscape is exactly the same- Kodi is exactly the same- Wine tends to work out of the box for much more programs than a few years agoMedia players, i agree with you (though elisa is fine i guess, i wish we had native musicbee)A ton of small utilities, yes they still have the look and feel of GTK/GTK2 (bleh) but they tend to have counterparts from the windows 2000 era so...

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:55:54 am
content: For me, this is about the BS that my app/web browser will just die on a given day. Not that the updates and security will end, that it will be shut down for simple things like Youtube streaming. I probably wont be able to do online banking anymore.Funny, I bet my bittorrent will still work... Something Louis Rossmann said...

author: amwales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:58:49 am
content: Looks like you make have some breathing roomhttps://endoflife.date/firefox*** Firefox ESR 115 support is extended for Windows 7-8.1 and macOS 10.12-10.14 up to September 2025.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:06:03 pm
content: Try PaleMoon or Waterfox? Both support Win7.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 25, 2025, 12:06:03 pmYes, if he really can't switch to Win10 or Linux, that would be the way to go at this point.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:30:21 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 25, 2025, 11:06:28 amA win 7 era MS office is quite out of date now and Libreoffice is a very capable tool.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 25, 2025, 11:41:43 amThere is always LMDE for people who want Mint but without Ubuntu.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: woofy on February 25, 2025, 12:34:46 pmor just debian(really what's wrong with debian? the old packages is a non-issue once you enable backports)

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:47:07 pm
content: Quote from: woofy on February 25, 2025, 12:30:21 pmNo, the music app is out at the office. No problem there as everything will be modern.As for my home PCs, if the extended FireFox September deadline is true, then upgrading my home setup would be a summer project and I would have to allocate 4k$ as a safety net plus around 1 full week of BS seeing what works and finding all the workarounds for the thing I cant get to work. (It will be sad to see my studio Mitsubishi 2070FS CRT monitors go, their color is so pleasant to the eye...)As for the MS office, I tried converting some of my slide presentations to online 365 or libreoffice. It messes up the page margins and screws around my page orientations (i have documents with mixed portrait and landscape pages) to such an extent, it will be too much of a headache to convert some of my old documents.Also, for some of my new patent drafts, my patent agent only uses MSOffice and we have had issues in the past cross converting files. Again, my best bet is to find the last release of MSOffice on CD (I think that was 2019, better than my 2010 version I'm using now.) and purchase it. None of this online BS.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:51:02 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 25, 2025, 11:41:43 amAre you thinking specifically of the window manager, the package manger, some other distro-specific feature, or something more fundamental?I can't stand "modern WM GUIs", so I use Xfce with an old theme that is close to WinXP.I like apt+synaptic, since that tells me what will happenbefore I clickthe install/uninstall button.Beyond that, I'm agnostic about the distro. Currently it is Mint Xfce edition, but that could change.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 12:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 25, 2025, 11:41:43 amWin11 has some bits of theWin3.1GUI left in it.https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/o1x183/the_famous_windows_31_dialogue_is_again_in/?rdt=59547

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 01:11:57 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 11:55:54 amThe problem is that free software developers will not continue supporting platforms that ~2% of people use. That's the issue. It isn't as simple as taking current Firefox and running a build for Windows 7 as a lot of new APIs have been introduced like the credential manager that would need to be disabled or rewritten for the old platform. So they expect you to move with the time. It's free software, developed by volunteers and charities at the end of the day so you're dependent upon these people willing to support these old releases. Mozilla Inc. probably doesn't make enough Google revenue from that slice to make it a corporate priority either.On CRTs: HDMI to VGA adapters are inexpensive if you still want to use a modern system with them, or you can buy an old PCI-e graphics card with one or more DVI-I outputs which are backwards compatible with VGA. You can often find such graphics cards for $10-20 because they're not much good for anything else but they should still work with basic 2D and 3D acceleration. However, I bet that any decent LCD made in the last 5 years would outperform your CRT in colour volume and accuracy. The best CRTs got around 90% sRGB, modern LCDs can go beyond 100% sRGB and nearly fill the BT.2020 space. About the only thing a standard LCD would struggle with would be black detail, but miniLED and OLED monitors compete well in those areas. I've just bought an OLED laptop, and the screen is beautiful on that.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 01:16:10 pm
content: One other thing worth mentioning if you are planning to build a new system is Uninstallview which can build a list of all installed applications including version, location etc.https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/uninstall_view.htmlThe list can be exported of course, so you can create a spreadsheet as a worklist.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 03:42:51 pm
content: Why is there all this talk about updating Windows or switching to Linux? Only Firefox needs to be updated.The OP is on Firefox v115.12.0esr, if you read the notice that was linked to in the message from Firefox it saysQuote from:https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/root-certificate-expiration#w_i-use-firefox-esr-what-should-i-doNo need to upend the whole system, just update Firefox.The current Firefox ESR is v128.7.0esr. If that's too big of a jump, the download for v115.13.0esr can be found athttps://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/115.13.0esr/Update: it turns out thatFirefox 115 is that last version that supports Win 7. It will be supported until at least Aug 2025. So OP is OK for now, but might need to do the more significant OS upgrade/switch relatively soon. Who knows though? Firefox 115 might work fine long after updates for Win 7 stop. But coming up with a plan when there is time would probably be a good idea.

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 03:55:04 pm
content: I'm confused. I just fired up my Win 7 Home box, and did a Firefox ESR update from v118 to v120, which it did with no problem. There was no mention of it being about to die.Edit: Correction. I updated from v115.18 to v115.20. It says it's up-do-date.

author: bte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 12:47:07 pmThe last version of Office that works with Windows 7 is 2016. 2019 requires Windows 10. Some sites claim it's possible to install 2019 on Windows 7 but I am not sure if you would like to resort to such guidance on such an important computer.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:39:26 pm
content: If you're still in Montréal just visit the PC liquidator stores IRL on Bégin street in VSL and you might find some bargains.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:40:10 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:41:43 amYou might want to see if LibreOffice will meet your needs. It is supported on Win 7 (with KB2533623 or KB3063858 installed). I have found it to work just fine opening my Office documents, but I don't use any particularly esoteric Office features (as far as I know). If LibreOffice can replace MS Office for you, it'll make any future OS update or migration easier.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:45:47 pm
content: Another potential Office (or even Windows) solution ishttps://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-ScriptsI haven't actually used it, but reading through the docs it appears legitimate - you can easily follow what it's doing in the powershell scripts. They also provide links to ISOs for Windows and Office versions going way back (again - you'll need some amount of trust).But I would strongly suggest looking into LibreOffice. If it does what you need I think it'll save you from future headaches like you're running into today.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 09:57:22 amThis thread is kind of ridiculous. You just need to update to Firefox 115.20.0esr. No OS changes required.P.S. OP, if your system has a reasonable amount of memory, you should set up a Windows 10 or Linux VM that you can use for things that are broken in Windows 7, and so you can plan your next step.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 11:09:39 amIf you're talking aboutquikcalc.exe, it seems to run fine for me on Win11. I'd bet that it'll run on Linux via Wine.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:18:27 amProtel98se works with Win10.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:28:20 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:41:43 amLinux follows POSIX principles, which means it does not assume there is only a single human in control of the machine. It also does not have a bolt-on security system, it's built-in, so that when properly configured, it's not constantly asking you for permission to do things. (Except stuff like updating the system, which will affect other users, so requires confirmation.)The Linux device manager is called 'udevd'. When something is plugged in, the kernel tells it, and it creates the device entries.These entries are controlled by rules files stored in/etc/udev/rules.d/(plus Linux distro maintained ones under/lib/udev/rules.d/.)Access to most devices is controlled by groups. For serial and USB serial devices, the normal group name isdialout(history!), so if you add yourself or any other user to thedialoutgroup, they will be able to access serial and USB serial devices.I use custom rules to create easily-remembered names for my microcontrollers. For example, for Teensies, I useATTRS{idVendor}=="16c0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="04*", ENV{ID_MM_DEVICE_IGNORE}="1", ENV{ID_MM_PORT_IGNORE}="1"ATTRS{idVendor}=="16c0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="04*", ENV{MTP_NO_PROBE}="1"to ensure my ModemManager (which I use for 4G/LTE connection management) won't touch them to see if they are modems, andATTRS{idVendor}=="16c0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="04*", GROUP:="adm", MODE:="0660"to let anyone in theadmgroup full access to Teensy devices (based on vendor and product IDs), plusKERNEL=="ttyACM*", ATTRS{idVendor}=="16c0", ATTRS{idProduct}=="04*", GROUP:="adm", MODE:="0660", RUN:="/bin/stty -F /dev/%k raw -echo", SYMLINK+="ttyTeensy-$attr{serial}"to set their termios device to raw mode, echo disabled, and create a stable device name for the USB serial (/dev/ttyTeensy-SerialNumber). That way, if my Teensy usesSerial.printf()in Arduino, I only need to runcat /dev/ttyTeensy*to see what it outputs. I don't even need a "serial monitor"; it all Just Works.The syntax is described inman 7 udev, and human-readable. You do need to be careful, because=is assignment that allows further modifications, but:=assigns a value and makes it immutable.The service reads these only when it starts, that's why a database of some fine sort isn't needed or wanted –– it'd just need yet another tool to maintain. So, if you do add or change the rules, you need to runudevadm control --reloadto tell it that the rules have changed. For USB devices, you'll want to unplug and plug the device back in, so that the updated rules come into effect.Basically all other operating system services are configured in a similar fashion. For some, there are graphical frontends that you can use, but they too will simply edit those configuration files and tell the related services that their config has been updated. (There are two groups, the GNOME developers and the systemd developers, who try to hide their configuration, because their developers believe they know better than the users what the users want or need. This is not an insult or snarkiness, they genuinely openly do. The others, like myself, believe users should be free to shoot themselves in the foot; it's their machine, not the developers'.)If you hate the above, you won't be happy using Linux.Most browser-LibreOffice-KiCad-Inkscape-Gimp users don't need to do any of that, because the distribution defaults work for most. Those of us with wonky or new USB devices, or doing hardware or embedded development, we do. There's no such thing as a free lunch; this is how Linux users typically pay.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 25, 2025, 07:28:20 pmSuffice it to say that the examples given by @NominalAnimal are pretty complex, which might scare you off. 99% of the time it is sufficient to make sure there's a single, simple entry for the device that assigns it to a user or group that your userid belongs to. That's all I have ever needed.Otherwise you need to be a root user(via sudo for example) to have permission to use the device.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:52:37 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 25, 2025, 07:28:20 pmSo does Windows, since Win 7. It has broadly the same access control features that most Linux filesystems have (although arguably more featureful than just read/write/execute bits). It has the ability to escalate to the user for individual requests or for escalation to be granted for an app's whole session. It has a fine-grained permissions systems for devices on top like the camera or microphone. This is not like the days of Windows XP where you could login as an admin user by exploiting a vulnerability on the login screen. (My favourite one was the 'Accessibility' link, which could be used to launch Magnifier, which could launch Help, which got you a file browser if you knew what you were doing... all running as admin.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:00:01 pm
content: Saying you need $2-3k for a new machine is bullshit to wave away and procrastinate the good advice you are being given.I just sold a PC for $500 that was probably 5x+ the performance of what you are running now. You are doing yourself a disservice when you clearly have a bit of budget available.No one says you have to be on the latest and greatest, or can't keep around an old box or VM to support legacy apps.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:11:55 pm
content: The OP doesn't even need to do anything hardware-wise right now. A simple Firefox update will take care of the immediate problem.However, much of the other advice would be relevant to helping make sure the OP doesn't find himself in a bind that is surely coming at some point. Whether that's getting a $500 machine or setting up a VirtualBox VM to start testing things on Win11 or Linux. Better to start doing those things now when it's not a crisis. In my opinion, the first thing to try would be to see if LibreOffice can replace MS Office. It should run on OP's existing equipment and if successful it removes the need to worry about MS Office activation forevermore (not to mention it runs on non-Win machines should that be a future direction for the OP).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:39:30 pm
content: "Audio needs to work right off the bat as well as other system with an Nvidia GT440, old AMD Phenom II x4 955 processor and motherboard with custom raid 0 configured drives"The passmark for that CPU is 2531, for reference, so would have been a 10x performance gain.The RAID0 thing is completely irrelevant with a modern drive.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 12:10:59 am
content: Pretty sure the Raspberry Pi 4 that runs my Home Assistant instances is almost faster than that CPU. Technology does move on.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 02:58:51 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 25, 2025, 11:00:01 pmIts not 1 PC. I need audio DAC capabilities which at least matches my current motherboard's HD-Audio dac which plugs directly into my amp, no pre-amp volume. (IE: no hiss or hum...)I need a laptop with the same on the headphone out. 13-15 inch screen should be fine. No gaming needed.I need to replace my RF remote control with a new one which works throughout my house like my current one.I need at least 3 video outs on the main PC, 2 for desktop monitors and 1 for my living room video projector.Today, to get these things, most likely I would need to purchase a separate audio dac with digital in for my living room.I also need to buy HDMI to DVI adapter for my pre-installed 50ft DLP projector cable.I need to replace my 2 CAD monitors.I would also like at least 1 seat of MS-Office, if not 2.I might as well upgrade my 1G networking to at least 2.5G or more, so a new router box and WiFi.Everything should have a full warranty.~2-3k$ CAD will be the approximate price for everything using entry level computers / components.The last equipment I purchased lasted me a decade. Whatever I replace it with should last another decade.(notice that on the new system, I do not need things like raid, but for the 10year old box I'm using now, it still performs adequately.)

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 03:41:44 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 26, 2025, 02:58:51 amI wantI wantI wantI wantCool, you can pay for that!

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 10:55:22 am
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on February 25, 2025, 07:49:07 pmTrue, that'd be for USB devices as simple as a single-line file,ATTRS{idVendor}=="VVVV", ATTRS{idProduct}=="PPPP", USER:="UserName", GROUP:="GroupName", MODE:="0660"The names of those files begin with a number only because they're read in alphabetic order, one after another. I use/etc/udev/rules.d/00_Teensy.rulesfor mine, since I'll won't have anything to override those ever.I just wanted to give a full, honest description of what one with unusual or new hardware might have to do. Better scare a bit now, than be disappointed later. Even for me, often weeks pass between when I need to modify any configuration file by hand, that's how well the defaults work.Quote from: mwb1100 on February 25, 2025, 07:49:07 pmYes, butsudois such a big hammer that one should not reach for it as part of a normal workflow; only when changes that would affect other users of that machine are applied.That is,sudois not the tool intended to solve say access problems to external devices; the udev rules are. And when you start modifying said rules, like I showed in my example, you can add a line or two to make your life much, much easier.Thatis why I use Linux, not because it is zero-cost. I pay a lot (in my time and effort) but that also makes it conform to my needs, not the other way around.Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 09:52:37 pmNo, it's still designed around the single-concurrent-seat paradigm. The implementation is fully kernel-based nowadays, yes.Filesystems became shared over the network, so even Microsoft had to add the access controls. Asntfscame much later than e.g.extfs(most commonly used Linux filesystem),ntfshas somewhat better attributes, including a file creation timestamp.extfsonly has access, modification, and status change (metadata change, like owner or access mode change), since those are the three that POSIX names; see e.g.struct stat.Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 09:52:37 pmThat's exactly it,the user. There is nothe userin Linux. There could be zero, one, or many equally or differently privileged humans, but none of them aretheuser.This difference is exactly why you so often see the pop-ups in various Windows-based appliances. Like I said, the entire OS is built around the idea, the design, that there is a display and a specific human person in front of that display. The actions the OS allows that human to take have been limited since Windows NT, yeah, but it doesn't mean the entire security paradigm isn't just a bolt-on affair, because the design is, even if the implementation is not. It is not like the security paradigm permeates the entire operating system to the core. It does in Unix and POSIXy systems.I'm not saying the Linux one is perfect, though. In fact I often rail against it, because it is too simplistic. We really need hierarchical delegates nowadays, so thatuserAhas control ofuserA.delegate1anduserA.delegate2tasks and processes, but the latter two are considered as if separate users; ephemeral ones that only exist during runtime. Right now, we have to use resource groups, seccomp, jails on BSDs, while the POSIXy and BSD kernels already have capabilities and individual identities for each task – not just per process, per thread per process in Linux – so extending that to protect delegated, untrusted processes from messing with the trusted user processes governed by the same human user would be a better approach IMO.The way that affects human user related OS services is critical. Right now, certain developers are trying to replacesudowith a centralized privilege controlling service, but it has a fatal flaw in all POSIXy and BSD systems: an external process fiddling with the priorities of a different process identified by a socket or by their process ID,can always be fooled to target a different process. It's a very known attack type, with hundreds of exploits in the last few decades. The current model is that the unprivileged process replaces itself with a privileged one, and that privileged one examines whether its environment (and controlling entity) is allowed to continue with the requested operation. This is extremely hardened, basically impossible to technically bypass, unless that simple examination is buggy. However, humans overusesudo, so those specific developers who believe they know better what the users need or want than the users themselves, want to replace it with the fragile centrally-controlled one, so they can more easily override users. Utter hubris, ignoring decades of security history and experience. (And I'm called a "conspiracy theorist" and "hater" and "stuck in the past" because I talk about these systematic failures of these developers.)

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 02:03:34 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on February 26, 2025, 03:41:44 amNote that 2-3k is a great price for everything above. My decade old original PC/laptop setup I'm replacing costs me around 9k.Paying for it just means temporarily adjusting some priorities, but there is enough time. The problem is to choose the right stuff. Prices VS capability has improved, but, there also now exist poorly designed / manufactured garbage which is specked good, but wont last or perform to spec.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 05:33:09 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 26, 2025, 02:58:51 amI know I'm harping (sorry), but I really think you should check out LibreOffice. Zero cost in $$$ is great, but the more important aspect to me is that you never have to worry about license activation. And I believe its compatibility with MS Office documents is really quite good (though I'll admit, my spreadsheets are pretty vanilla).

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 05:40:37 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on February 26, 2025, 05:33:09 pmI already tried it with my Patent agent. Page and font alignments weren't perfect, but especially, revision tracking with author highlight controls completely corrupts the document as the markings use different color sets and symbols.I'm sorry, but when the office you deal with uses the real MSOffice with the advanced features, and they publish the patents work to the US Patent office, you play with the same tools.

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 07:09:32 pm
content: I too am a Windows 7 user, but my Firefox is at 115.20 ESR and I have not gotten that message... yet.And in case anybody here jumps at me about Linux, let me just that this will be a possibility, as I intend to install Linux Mint or something on a Windows 10 laptop I was bestowed recently. Might probably do it on that first and then my main one that I've had for over 13 years...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 07:31:16 pm
content: Quote from: Bryn on February 26, 2025, 07:09:32 pmI went through this process a couple of years ago. I ended up just swapping out the HDD on my Thinkpad and doing a clean Mint install on a second one. Once I was up and running to my satisfaction I just put the originalCDHDD in a caddy and copied across my files. I'm glad I did, Mint (any of the three UIs, I use Cinamon) is very close to Win7 in look and feel. Without the license issues of Windows, it's very easy to swap Linux installations (HDDs) between machines.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 08:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: Bryn on February 26, 2025, 07:09:32 pmAnd you won't get the message - FF 115.20 already has the fix.

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 08:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on February 26, 2025, 08:06:17 pmI see... well, maybe the OP should update his Firefox to that version then, if he hasn't done so already.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 09:26:34 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 09:57:22 amhmm. I'm using an even older version of FF (101.0.1) with Win 10 but I'm not getting that message. I turned off the updates to FF a long time ago but it occasionally would still updatewithout my permission and with the updates settings still turned off. But I finally found the address of their update server and the server that they were using to check the version with and I blocked both URLs in my Hosts file and since then (two? years or so) it's never run an update.I expect that that that message is coming from FF's update server and that if you block the server, it will go away. But FF may still eventually brick itself. But for me, I will cross that bridge when I get there.Before anyone makes a remark about the newer versions of FF being "better" I will say that I HATED the newer versions of FF and the constant updates and the constantly changing layouts and the ever worsening performance so Ipurposelyrolled FF back to an older version.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 11:00:37 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 26, 2025, 02:03:34 pmSo you ignore the want vs need distinction? Most people would agree those are things you want, and are not life sustaining essentials. Which makes your requests alarmist and sensational/exaggeration.Right now you say you have things which do all that, other than the web browser being out of date which others say is fixable!A single failing web browser does not suddenly stop all the other functionality. Even if you suddenly found yourself in need of a new platform to run a web browser (which other have posted multiple possible ways around that) there is still no requirement to bring forward all the other capabilities of the existing computers as they still work and do those things.You're adding wants (desires) on wants on wants, and ignoring the zero cost solutions. So you come across as an entitled complainer.

author: bill_c
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 02:38:07 am
content: I have been using Linux on my FX-8350 since I bought back in 2012 and it works fine. Kicad, LibreOffice, BricsCad, and many more. I can have my music playing on my desk speakers and listen to videos on my headphones at the same time. Dual, triple, or quad monitors are not a problem (never had enough room to try more).SYou need a calculator with copy-paste? well galculator (I have version 2.1.4 if it matters), and not only can you copy-paste, you can add constants and custom functions too.If you start asking questions on the LibreOffice forum, you might just find that others have similar use cases and instructions to solve your problems and that you do not need MS office anymore.You have to learn new things when switching to a new phone or even a new version of windows, but if YOU are sure that changing will be too costly and that YOU cant possibly use something different, then why even start this thread?

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 02:44:59 am
content: Quote from: Someone on February 26, 2025, 11:00:37 pmFair enough. I guess I'm beginning to feel the age of all the computer equipment I own and looking for the right time and excuse to dish out a bit of money. Might as well do my cell phone at the same time...For now, the firefox upgrade works.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 09:45:25 am
content: Quote from: madires on February 25, 2025, 12:06:03 pmCloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 12:50:07 pm
content: That would be illegal in many countries.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 01:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 25, 2025, 10:30:53 amMy experience is updating from Win 7 to Win 10 is OK, but if Win 8 or 8.1 is involved you are at high risk. NEVER try to go from Win 8 to Win 10. It just leaves your machine screwed up, but doesn't warn about any possible issues along the way. If you can upgrade from 8 to 8.1, where a number of key things changed, I think 8.1 usually upgrades to 10 OK. Win 11 is a minefield of whiny "I don't like that and I'm not installing" issues, but I think it warns about most of them up front.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 03:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on February 27, 2025, 09:45:25 amThanks. I didn't know that. I have both Pale Moon and FF installed on my computer and I use PM for most things because it is much faster than FF.FWIW I also have Libre Office installed and I never use MS Word, Exell or the other MS products and it works fine for what I do and I recommend it.

author: pbernardi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 04:41:42 pm
content: Honest question: can´t you use any other Browser? (Edge, Chrome, Opera...)I am a Firefox user myself, but in this case I would gladyl switch to other browser to avoid OS or hardware updates.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 07:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on February 27, 2025, 03:05:20 pmYou could try LibreWolf, it identifies as FF (and, like Pale Moon, is faster).

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 07:35:41 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 25, 2025, 10:35:51 amMost of us likely have a spare drive, which should only cost $40 or less these days. When I made the change from Windows XP(!) to Windows 10, I did a test installation on a spare drive. I skipped Windows 7.Going from XP to 10 also gives some indication of what hardware is supported by Windows 10, although that hardware, the CPU, is *not* supported on Windows 11.

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 09:50:04 am
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on February 27, 2025, 09:45:25 amAccording to the recent Pale Moon changelog, since version 33.6, various fixes have been done to address issues caused by CloudFlare. Even so, I'm still running into problems to do with it whenever I use the browser, and really this is not acceptable. Looks to me that they somehow don't like using the alternative browsers, especially Firefox... surely heads will roll following that pathetic move

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:37:50 am
content: So far I didn't have any major issues with Cloudflare's verification page when running Firefox or PaleMoon. Usually during internet rush hour I encounter the verification on some busy websites. In rare cases I have to do it a few times. Cloudflare can be good and evil at the same time in that regard.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 11:04:31 am
content: Quote from: pbernardi on February 27, 2025, 04:41:42 pmChrome has stopped supporting Windows 7 since early last year if i remember correctly.It also does not have a longterm stable version.So if you want a current browser that still gets security updates, you are out of luck with anything chrome based.And if anything, if you surf the internet, you need a supported browser.The OS, if it is at least somewhat isolated (A NAT router already will block most possible unattended attacks as long as no port forwards are set), is not nearly as dangerous than an unpatched browser.

author: bte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 12:33:04 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on February 28, 2025, 11:04:31 amThis is available as a chrome-based solution on Windows 7:https://github.com/win32ss/supermium

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 12:02:35 am
content: Quote from: Bryn on February 28, 2025, 09:50:04 amWhich might explain why my version of PaleMoon doesn't work for some websites. While I was at it I locked it at Version 29.1.0. I will see it it will allow me to install a second (later edition) copy without overwriting my currently installed version.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 12:59:01 am
content: There's a thread on that here:Firefox: Mozilla is doing bad things again

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2025, 04:52:09 am
content: https://github.com/atauenis/webone