Neighbours children driving me mad! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:25:45 am
content: My upstair neighbours have two kids who do nothing but run around,jump and drop their toys on the floor creating lots of noise and it's driving me crazy!I wake up at 6:20 AM on weekends when I usually sleep till 10 after a long night because they decide it's fair to let them make a racket at that ungodly hour.Sleep disturbance is terrible since I have to wake up and go back to sleep every damn night many times until I wake up at my usual times.What can I do? Should I talk to them about it or can they do nothing about it? They are children after all...I'd love to soundproof my room but I don't think vibrations from jumping/running will be blocked unlike sound.I am living a nightmare and would like some opinions on what can be done about it.

author: Precisiontools
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:34:21 am
content: Earplugs...special soft ones for sleeping.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:35:33 am
content: Quote from: Precisiontools on February 04, 2018, 09:34:21 amTried them but they don't work...

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:40:13 am
content: I'd try talking to them. Sometimes it works.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:40:35 am
content: You could try headphones playing pink noise which will hopefully mask the sound quite well.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:48:22 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on February 04, 2018, 09:40:35 amHeadphones are out of the question. Maybe a small speaker or fan on my bedside table to mask the noise?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:54:34 am
content: As a parent I’d lose my shit at my kids if they did this. No respect for neighbours is not how you run things.Stick some AC/DC on full whack at about 2:30AM to wake them up for about ten minutes. They’ll sleep in longer then.Incidentally you tend not to be able to talk to people with children as they think you’re criticising their parenting and go on the defence. Not much you can do. Criticising parenting should be an acceptable thing in my mind.

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:55:29 am
content: What you can do depends on the country you're in, too.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:56:56 am
content: Whenever there is a dispute between neighbours, the first thing I ask is "have you tried talking to them?". The answer is almost always "no". I'd start there, approach the issue directly with the parents. They aren't mind readers. Remember to approach it calmly and respectfully. Chances are, they have no idea this is disturbing you. They might not be aware that there isn't a huge slab of concrete separating them and you. Having a go at someone will probably end up making the problem worse.Secondly, it sounds like you live in an apartment or similar high-density housing. I've been there and done that myself... never again! Unfortunately, that's part of the deal when you're literally living on top of each other, however part of that deal works both ways in my opinion, if you live in an apartment, you need to take extra care not to disturb those around you, whether that be turning the TV down or being mindful of how loud your conversations are.If the noise isthatbad and unreasonable, you could lodge a "noise complaint" with your local Police and they can go over and have a chat to the offending family. However these are usually very low on the priority list and seldom work if the people involved are selfish, inconsiderate morons.I guess the extreme measure would be to move, or if you own your unit, perhaps consider selling up? At least your problem is "only" children, I remember before I bought my current place, I dealt with dickheads riding Harley's and shitbox Subaru's with massive exhausts at all times of the day and night, children grow up, adults with "size compensation issues" generally don't.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:15:20 am
content: dense people in high-density housing is your problem, architects of so called smart cities shouldlive inthem.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:33:01 am
content: You want silence, this will do it!It's a little disgusting, and you need to be careful (WARNING), but this will be the only way to get rid of the sound.Get the orange ear plugs I have attached in the image (only the type in the green circle), and only the orange ones of this size. Roll each one between your fingers as if you were normally going to insert it in your ear.Note that the next step will only work if they really retain their rigidity after rolling them, some older ones are too soft and expand too quickly. Some brands don't have the rigidity and you wont be able to the next 2 steps right.Next, add saliva, yes, lick them wet, and insert the lubricated earplug into your ear canal so that the outside is just about flush with your ear hole, channeling/guiding the wet/lubricated sharpened rolled point down your ear canal. You need to leave some material to grab to pull them out. They will dry out within a minute.The ear plug will make a soft bubbling his as it expands and tightens into your ear canal as all sound down to below 25hz will completely vanish.WARNING, like this, you CANNOT just pull them out, they will POP you eardrum. SERIOUSLY, they were never intended to be inserted into your ear like this and you must pull them out EXTREMELY SLOW, to allow air to equalize through the foam. If you damage your ears, I will not be held responsible, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED IN UPPERCASE.Using these earplugs like this, you will be essentially near death. Do not expect an alarm clock or a phone ringing OR A SMOKE DETECTOR FIRE ALARM to be audible or wake you up from sleep. I will not be held responsible if you sleep through a fire alarm wearing ear plugs like this.You want silence, this will do it and it does work! I also recommend cleaning out your ears with Q-tips before doing this...WARNING, it works so well that it may become addictive just to get sleep if you live in a noisy situation, so use this method sparingly... (Ahhh, the peace and tranquility of near complete silence...) (Arrrrg, the annoyance of having to pull them out because of an itch in your ear you want to scratch...)Warning, use the wrong type of ear plugs like the way I have mentioned, and you may get them permanently stuck in your ear without that additional ring/rim like the 2 examples in my attached photos. You may need to find different pharmacies/grocery stores who contain different types before you find someone who stocks the right ones.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:48:32 am
content: Welcome to the club, though thankfully as the twins upstairs have gotten older they do not rollerskate around the rooms, when not running seemingly in clogs. thankfully they are 2 floors above, though the upstairs gets i full brunt, i just get the echo that goes through. However I can always tell when the male cat Tequila wakes up at 4AM though, as his tread on the floor is audible, unlike the female Keshasha.solutions if it is your own flat is to put a false acoustic ceiling up in your bedroom, with at least 20cm of acoustic wadding in the space to damp it down, or to move. as from your username I assume you like in a Hellenic country, there is little else other than moving to a place where you are on the top floor.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 04, 2018, 09:54:34 am

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:25:29 pm
content: Best advise: talk to them. Not yell, but talk. Explain the situation, let them listen for themselves if need be and make an agreement on when they can make noise and when they should go easy. As you said, their children are children but that does not mean they can wake you up at any hour. It is also a good idea to agree on a way to let them know in the future when the racket is too great to bear. This gives you a valuable bit of control of the situation.You do not elaborate about the parents so I have no idea what kind of people they are but more often than not homo sapiens living close together have a mutual interest in keeping relations good and their houses 'homes'. The one important condition here is communication. Without it your neighbors might not realize the level of nuisance they inflict on your floor. And who knows you, being DrummerDimitri, can also be heard upstairs?Oh, and getting up at 3 am to play Unfinished Sympathy at 10 is generally not a good idea to get the communication going. More like a last straw

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:38:39 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 04, 2018, 09:54:34 amTry playing the Justin Bieber Christmas Album. They found it works well in Guantanamo Bay to extract false confessions.Seriously you have good reason to approach the parents. You should not have to endure ignorant, rude and selfish people. Kids know no better, but their parents should.I am very sensitive to such things. Recently I had a bloke spit a huge grot into a bin at a shopping mall a few inches from my face as I was doing up my shoelace. I told him off. I almost asked him "Didn't Chairman Mao teach you any manners?" but I contained my anger. Even so the peasant got the message that such behaviour is not tolerated here.On Friday night I went to see The Post at the cinema. Some people behind me were slowing rusting EMPTY crinkly bagsfor no reason at all but to annoy the heck out of others for 15 minutes... until I made it clear to them they are to cease and desist. But the old bastard next to me took over by grunting at the end of every cliche sentence in the movie. If a comment was humorous, we would emit two grunts. I noticed the woman next to him was also grunting, but less so often. I did some research into this affliction of grunting when some actor makes a comment in a movie and came to the conclusion they could not help themselves as they were suffering from moronitis, a strain of the disease called imbecilism. It can be fatal if goes on too long.Years ago I went to see Eiger Sanction staring Clint Eastwood, with a mate. Behind us were two Italian ladies chatting thoughout the movie.. in Italian. We got up and moved to the only two other spare seats in the cinema. Only to have on old bloke behind us sucking his false teeth loudly. Sometimes ya can't win.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:59:32 pm
content: I had that issue way back, when my neighbor upstairs got into a habit of listening to rap music at 7:00am. I endured for a few days, but then I just took a broom and started hitting the ceiling like a machine gun. Luckily he was a reasonable man, he stopped the music and didn't do it again.So, I agree that it is possible that your neighbors are reasonable people and that they just don't know that their kids are giving you hell. Just let them know.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 01:16:57 pm
content: Talk to them.But know this: no parentchoosesto have their kids awake at 6:20AM...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 01:31:44 pm
content: I've been in this situation. It's very difficult but there are things you can do. You should talk to the parents and try to figure out some mitigating steps that can be done before you descend into the hell of inter neighbor battles.I am guessing that this has been going on for a long time. Do they have carpeting in their apartment because carpeting on the floors will reduce the sound level significantly?Another thing which will help even more is rubber padding underneath the carpeting. I have had two friends, (both were professional DJs and one was also a sound engineer) who completely covered their floors with thick dense rubber padding precisely cut to fit perfectly over the entire floor and then nice dense pile carpets over that, it was very effective in reducing noise in a high noise urban living situation. You could suggest that to them. You can also cover the walls with sound absorbent materials. Ceiling would be the most problematic but they do make thick sound deadening materials which lend themselves to that, but take care that whatever you use meets fire codes and also is not toxic. So called "egg foam" will soak up sound but is flammable, and also attracts dust and is hard to clean, so is not such a good idea. You could try pieces of plywood cut to shape with carpet remnants stapled to both sides of it suspended from ceiling by very short bungee cords or something. (flexible and hanging=will not transmit the thumps). Make sure its both secure and flexible. Strong bungees would probably be best. Cotton rope would probably work better than a chain in terms of sound deadening..Keep in mind that there is a certain age where they run around a super lot and it doesn't last that long, so its probable that when they get just a bit older they wont be so noisy. (unless your neighbors have more children)Look at the bright side, at least your neighbors aren't a deaf couple having sex five or six times a day, or a convalescent hospital where people were crying out in pain at all hours. (I've had to live with both of these)Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 04, 2018, 09:25:45 am

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 01:42:30 pm
content: If your neighbors are clearly over there heads with parenting problems you probabily need to have a direct confrontation with them. They will react with supprise and then anger. They may start yelling and get defensive. At that point back down and don't talk to them again. This may be effective if one parent tells the other we can't live above the jerk below. They might move. Problem is: the next tenant will know about you and the cycle will repeat. Eventually you'll figure a time when everyone is sleeping in the place above you and adjust your hours accordingly. Hope this helps.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 01:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 04, 2018, 01:16:57 pmAnd then some. Look at it this way. As a parent it often becomes a case of picking your battles. Sometimes you just let the kids run riot as at that moment they're burning off energy and not hurting anyone. I'll lay odds those parents have *no* idea it is affecting you. Once you've politely made them aware of it, if they are half reasonable people your issue will become one of the battles they choose to work on and the problem should resolve itself.Try to work with them, because being a parent really can feel like negotiating with a foreign terrorist and outside antagonism will be the last thing they need.Of course if they are arses about it, then game on, but try honey first.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 02:14:46 pm
content: All you do when kids start to make noise is noise back by playing M.A Numminen while you loudly shouts,Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darueber muss man schweigen:

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 02:51:11 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 04, 2018, 12:38:39 pmHow about the poor bugger living below/beside you? It's hardly fair to piss them off too.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 02:58:04 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on February 04, 2018, 02:51:11 pmIf you attach the speaker to the ceiling with the cone facing up, it should direct most of the sound up.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:43:29 pm
content: Don't antagonize them. Stick to talking/being reasonable. You'll get much farther.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:02:20 pm
content: I strongly suggest talking to them.If you can,move into different location,if not,I would use some form of accoustic absorbtion.The frequencies I expect are low since the walls act like low pass filter,its probably stuff 200 Hz or lower.I would try tuned absorber,helmholtz resonators to kill the most irritating frequencies,or you can use porous absorber,it must have correct airflow resistivity to thickness ratio otherwise its going to be ineffective.I would cover entire upper side of your room with 40cm thick porous absorber with 3000 to 6000 Pa.s/m2 flow resistivity.You can also put it on wall,your bedroom will loose massive amount of internal space but you have to ask yourself,how much do you really want to have undisturbed sleep.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:15:37 pm
content: Lots of great advice coming from you guys thanks a lot!I will talk to them next time I see them face to face since calling them or ringing their door is a bit too forward.All the apartments are sold so they will probably be my neighbors for as long as they don't decide to sell their house...They are a high profile young couple (political party leaders) and for that reason they might have an air of superiority and I doubt they will take it seriously but if they don't take it well the first time I will be more firm the next time and suggest soundproofing solutions even if I have to pay for them.Lets see what happens...

author: CharlieEcho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:34:20 pm
content: Probably what's going on is that these parents are tired too, and they're the ones sleeping in because it's less noisy to be in their apartment than yours.The kids wake up, get bored and entertain themselves. I'd approach it that way -- "look, I want to sleep in too. Please get your kids to play quietly until you wake up."Other suggestions like a carpet over a mat in their playroom (if it has hard floors) are good. Even kids whose parents are trying to teach them courtesy are going to forget not to thump around once or twice on your average Saturday morning.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:59:03 pm
content: Definitely speak to them, be overly polite and understanding, but also firm about the distress they are causing you.If that fails, go with plan B as already suggested. I would recommend "Can't stand still" on repeat, due to its pulsing bass-line. Rock on!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 05:23:44 pm
content: There are too many songs that could be played at full tilt for comedic (at least to you) effect.My personal choice would be Elvis Costello's 'Accidents will happen'. Not a necessarily basey track, but turn the base up, and hilarity ensues.Another idea, is since they are kids, you could be a real ass and try to freak the shit out of them by playing some sort of freaky sounds, like ghost tracks or boo's or something.On a more serious note, there are laws and limits about how much sound a neighbor can make. While getting shit done may involve being an ass, I'd start on a track from asking, to getting angry towards them, to filing a police/building owner report, to then taking it to more drastic, comedic measures.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 05:50:06 pm
content: Definitely talk with them, in the cold light of day and in a polite manner, because very likely they aren't even aware.Be careful not to go in all guns blazing, that can be counter productive.Hopefully they will be understanding and will do something about it, either with carpeting or banning the kids from a particular room until a reasonable time. Invite them in to hear it.I make a particular effort to get on with my neighbours, by introducing myself when I move in to start with, making it clear that if there's any problem they need to talk to me about, please let me know. There is little worse than having a neighbour dispute, and like it or not you're far better off in the longer term compromising and making an effort than you are making your life miserable with constant anxiety.Sometimes you can't win, a couple of years ago one of the old pipes behind some stud walling broke and caused damage to the neighbour below. As well as turning off my own water, I did my best to get an emergency plumber around ASAP but she had already gone into hysterics, as if I was responsible for WW3. Thankfully her hubby turned up shortly afterwards and realised there was nothing more I could do. In the end, it was a couple of hundred quid for my repairs and a couple of hundred quid for her redecorations. I made a couple of visits directly afterwards to show my concern too. A month later and it was as if nothing had happened, I am sure that my concern helped in that circumstance.Occasionally you'll get ignorant arsehole parents such as I have opposite, whose under age teenage kids have parties every few months, which spill over into the street into the early hours, drinking and smoking, and vomiting in the neighbours' front porches. Despite attempting to appeal to her finer side, their mother says that once they're out on the street it's not her problem anymore. Nice. You can imagine what the neighbours think to that.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 08:00:58 pm
content: The kids across the street in the UK sounds like a good reason to have a bit of a chat with the council, and an ASBO for them, forcing the parents to accept that they are responsible for what the kids get up to, and not to think that what they do outdoors does not reflect on them directly.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:09:11 pm
content: Wait a minute...we're going about it wrong. In the event that politely asking them fails. You must declare war with sound. Bass and loud music isn't what you want, that'll just sound like more annoying neighbor crap. No...you must teach them a lesson. How old are the parents? You see where this is going...?High frequency!It might be possible to hit a frequency that only the kids can hear (if not, oh well, blast the parents too). Attach the speaker to the ceiling as suggested and pulse it in short bursts every time the kids are loud. (Just be careful not to actually damage their hearing)Voltamort out!

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:19:07 pm
content: Children Playing.Must be the best sound in the world.Enjoy.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on February 04, 2018, 10:19:07 pmAs a person who hates kidsnoit's notand idc if that makes me a horrible person, if it does then I am a horrible person and will live with what I am anyways.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:38:16 pm
content: Your not a horrible person, but from my point of view your missing out.People like what they like, those things are hard to change.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 10:58:18 pm
content: Short of moving outor cutting a good package deal for the entire family with some slave tradersyou may as well play some music you like listening to at that hour, while they are banging awayYou may nod off to it and not get disturbed by their random intermittent racket as muchThey may get interested or extra bored listening to it, and meld with their iDiot padsAre they tile or wood floor banging sounds, or carpet thud?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 11:14:47 pm
content: I think that all the suggestions so far are missing out on an epic opportunity that fits this forum....Noise cancelling ceilings!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 11:15:33 pm
content: Try talking to them first, they may not realize how loud it is downstairs. If that doesn't work talk to the management, virtually all apartment complexes have noise rules and designated quiet hours.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 11:35:52 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 04, 2018, 11:15:33 pmThat is quite possible.QuoteThat's going to depend on exactly where you are in the world. Small unit blocks in Australia don't have on-site management to complain to ... and most occupants wouldn't know whom to contact.QuoteNot in NSW that I know of. We have noise laws that apply to the community as a whole. But those laws would apply in this situation.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 11:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 04, 2018, 01:16:57 pmThis is exactly right. If the kids are very young (say under 7 or so), the parents really have no reasonable way to prevent them from getting up early and playing. Anyone who says otherwise either has never had kids or is one of the few blessed parents whose young kids slept late and/or were always quiet little angels. That is not something you can force on kids short of inhumane and likely illegal methods.Many good suggestions about asking them to mitigate the noise with padding/carpet,etc. Retribution and antagonist action are the actions of the immature or antisocial. It might be different if it was adults making the noise who refused to change after being asked nicely.If you are someone who is very sensitive to noise, then my guess is that nothing they can do will satisfy you. But it’s worth approaching them in a friendly way to problem solve and see if there’s a way to work with them to find a solution.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 11:42:56 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 04, 2018, 11:37:13 pmRenters would never see that - and there would be many owner-occupiers that simply pay it as a bill and not realise the full function of the strata manager. Besides, for noise issues, the strata manager would probably tell them to contact the police.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:06:14 am
content: Well if it's an ongoing problem and the residents refuse to make efforts to reduce the noise, then I suppose you could try contacting the police. I find it hard to believe that any developed nation would not have *some* sort of process to deal with unruly residents who cannot take reasonable steps to not be a burden to their neighbors.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:28:03 am
content: Well, you could speak with the parents to bribe the kids with a weekly reward paid by you, but only if they don't stuff up.But that's a no go if the noisy ankle biting nappy loaders are too youngPeople should wake up and realize it's a no win scenario when you shack up in shoe box housing occupied with shift workers mixed in next to stifled bored young kidswho should be in real HOMES with back yards to go ballistic,not imprisoned in easy profit developers dog box housingthat dumbass parents got themselves herded intoTrailer park is a better option if money is tight,any drama call the live in supervisor/site owner to sort it out,he/she will tell the kidsand their freakin dogto turn it down or relocate their activities elsewhereand prestige can go to hell, along with snob family members and so called friendsbackstabbing tardsthat may not comprehend your -affordable housing- choicesand desire to reduce debt, and put good foodand Shiraz/Chardonnay caskson the tableAsking P0lice here in Australia is a no go, they are too busy revenue raising on Jill and Joe Citizen for exceeding speed limits by 3 or 4 kilometres in big wide quiet SAFE streets littered with changing speed signsAnyone on top of that situation gives their money instead to the local panel shop for tail gating accidents, due to observing the ever changing speed signsand mobile phoneand not paying attention to the actual road

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:33:36 am
content: At least out here, urban apartments are the last place you'd want to go if money is tight. I've never understood why but dense downtown apartments typically have about the highest cost per square foot around.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:44:32 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 05, 2018, 12:28:03 amUnfair and inappropriate.Certainly, noise complaints would be lower on their priority list. Things like armed robbery, motor vehicle accidents and having to inform a relative that such-and-such a person is dead because they sped and lost control would, I imagine, be higher up the list.I'm not a cop - but I have taken a moment to reflect on some of the crap they have to deal with. Remember, they don't carry all that stuff on their utility belt just to look cool.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:48:36 am
content: Claymores around corners and bouncing betty's in the couch cushions.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:16:10 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 12:44:32 amFair enough statement, but here in Australia only the p0lice and the crims have the guns, and a few licensed hobby hunters MUST have them locked away in gun safesanything weird and twisted with that picture?I'll bet our counterparts in the US don't have to stress too much about armed crims coming to their doorMy point is don't hold your breath waiting for the 'busy' p0lice coming to ask the neighbors to tone down their kids play noise in a hurry.Won't happen, it loses money to whoever really pockets the fines,and no one really gas about minor non violent domestic BS.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:24:02 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 05, 2018, 01:16:10 amOnly that criminals will get weapons anyway. I'm happy to limit the access to firearms. I'll bet even criminals have a better control on access to their illegal firearms than some law-abiding citizens do with their legal ones. But that's the last I will say on that subject.QuoteYou can't get off that hobby horse, can you?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:28:31 am
content: ok, so WHERE does all that revenue raising dough go to?redirected to the local council, community groups, victims of crime rehab,or p0licebeer n maccasdisco fund?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:32:35 am
content: I think that :Quote from: BrianHG on February 04, 2018, 10:33:01 ammay have to become my new motto.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 01:39:14 am
content: ok, I'll roll withwhereto keep the punters happy

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 02:06:12 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 05, 2018, 01:28:31 amOver here it goes into consolidated revenue.Interestingly enough though, the guys you so bitterly (and incorrectly) complain about don't go looking for traffic violations. In fact you have to be trying *very* hard for them to even notice you as they go about their business. The ones you appear to take issue with are the traffic police, and their role is to uphold the Road and Traffic Act.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 02:47:05 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 05, 2018, 01:28:31 amWhile the question is, in itself, reasonable - you are focussing on the wrong side of the equation.Calling it "revenue raising" completely misses the point. People speed and, hence, break the law. When they break the law and get caught, they are punished. The punishment is meant to deter offending again.It doesn't matter what the punishment is - it is there to dissuade breaking the law in the future. That can't be any simpler.The fact that a financial punishment is most often used is that this is, perhaps, one ofthemost sensitive nerves that can be hit - and it is one of the simplest to implement. It has -as a by-product- a benefit to the community in the form of financial support. Sometimes this support is used to fund a hospital bed. Sometimes this is used to pay a teacher ... and sometimes it is used to pay for counselling of police when they have had to help locate body parts of some teenager who has wrapped their car around a tree - and then have to tell their parents.I can see where this focus might come from... You speed. You get caught. You don't like it. We get that.But, instead of making a fuss - how about thinking a little differently.....(IMO - whoever came up with that slogan gets an extra piece of pie!)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 02:50:35 am
content: Anyway... getting back on topic.Serious question .... Whatwouldthe issues be in producing a noise cancelling ceiling?We've done it with headphones for decades.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 02:54:55 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 02:50:35 amCosts too much money.And, if you are renting, you may not be allowed to renovate your roof.My solution, though disgusting, is effective wherever you may be and is available today.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 04:15:07 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 02:47:05 amI'm not a disgruntled speeder, nor do see them pull up and confront the hoons and roadragetards who do speed and dangerously,instead what I do see on a regular basis is them targeting mum, dad and gramps (people) doing a brief 53 kph, whom they know will just pay up and shut up = easy gig for the revenue raisersIf they sling me some of those easy RR dollars to be an apologist, I might tend to be less observant of the obvious,or consider " thinking a little differently....."

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 05:28:51 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 05, 2018, 02:54:55 amHow do you know? Have you looked at the idea? Formulated alternatives? Done some research? Do you know of anyone who has?I don't put these questions to get "in your face" - but I haven't seen anything but an opinion.Quote...And that's where something that is effective but not structurally involved with the building would be an alternative worth investigating.Forty years ago, I would have said it would be impossible to get chest thumping bass out of a box less than half the size of a loaf of bread - but they have been around for some time now.

author: Precisiontools
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 05:39:39 am
content: Send them a full set of Peppa Pig DVDs, that might shut 'em up for a bit.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 05:53:58 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 05:28:51 amI place the cost of my ear plugs at $1.50 for 20 which should last around 6 months before they wear out. Are you saying a mechanical active noise cancellation will cost me less than that?My alternative was already posted here on page 1:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/neighbours-children-driving-me-mad!/msg1417536/#msg1417536

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 06:50:49 am
content: With a budget in THAT range .... I can't argue.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 07:19:20 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 01:24:02 amThe gun owners I know take safety very seriously, I can't speak for everybody though.Despite the reputation the US has involving guns, outside of certain deteriorating urban areas with serious gang infestations, gun violence is pretty rare and not something most of us tend to experience or think about much. Provided you're not involved in gang activity you're a lot more likely to be hurt by some idiot playing with their phone behind the wheel than by some idiot with a gun.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 08:46:38 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 02:50:35 amI've always assumed that the problem is down to spatial phase differences.With noise cancelling headphones, the location of the microphone relative to the listener's ear is known, and so relevant anti-phase can be implemented. As soon as the relative location of the microphone and the ear isn't known, all bets are off. You'll be able to cancel for one ear at one location, but not multiple ears, or a moving ear.It also gets harder the higher the frequency as the wavelengths shorten, which is why even noise cancelling headphones are better at attenuating lower frequencies.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 09:39:13 am
content: Score a nice doona /blanket and comfortable pillow for the car,find a nice quiet deserted street, park or close to a truckers stopput up a windscreen shade folding thingie to keep the morning sun out, open the car vents for outside air and windows open half an inch,set up the seats for maximum legroom stretch > very important!have some very quiet music in the background to wind down, lose the shoes, cover the phone with something so it doesn't freak you out,have something you can use as a surprise weapon in case someone wants to go to hospital by attempting to roband rapeyouand get in some serious shuteyewell miles better than what you get nowBeen there, works like a charm

author: tux75at
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 11:34:34 am
content: I did not read the whole thread, but talking does not always help. My neighbor from below (!) are very loud. Even Musik does not help. I feel the Kids jumping around and the parrents also walk like elephants. Their visitors park in front of the garage and block the street.... I start to walk like them, because i can not do much, dont get me wrong, i do not jump, i just dont care If my steps are loud or not. Now they even close the doors that everyone can hear it. But soon, about a year, and I will live in my own house, that is the only solution.Gesendet von meinem E5823 mit Tapatalk

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 12:29:17 pm
content: Feel sorry for youWe had neighbours like that years ago , except it was thumping music on those paper thin walls every damn weekend , rest from work , no way. Tried talking to the woman and she came out of her kitchen and asked whats up , i complained and she said i cant hear it in the kitchen with the door closed !!!!! WTF. The husband was not the friendly type, no amount of talking solved it. Eventually we had to sell up.Perhaps they are bored and the parents have problems , now you will start to think of ways to tackle it !! and dread going home .Talk or move , whatever you do you will end up the one with the load on your back.Personally i would put some distance between you and them

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 12:32:01 pm
content: It's all about re-adjusting your viewpoint, See it as an artform rather than a nuisance

author: cleanworkbench
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 02:11:30 pm
content: Fight or flight !!!

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 03:39:51 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 04, 2018, 10:33:01 am

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 03:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on February 06, 2018, 03:39:51 pmA W A R N I N G H A S B E E N I S S U E D T O Y O U

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 03:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 02:50:35 amMuzo?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 03:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 04, 2018, 09:25:45 amI haven't slept past 5AM in decades.Anyhow, a box fan can provide some acceptable ambient noise, though probably not enough in your situation.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 04:01:29 pm
content: Honestly, here is how I deal with this. My bedroom is full of computers, and while I keep most of them off during the night for noise reasons, if my rabbit, which is in the next room, starts going nuts for an extended period of time, I will turn some more of them on just to get the idle noise (and believe me, two 7800GTXs, an FX-57, and 4 7.2k hard drives and you couldn't hear the world ending past that.I was in a situation where I was sleeping in a hotel room on my way back from Germany (we stopped over in Boston) and I am a rather particular sleeper. There were two beds, and four people, so naturally I just slept on an armchair, which honestly wasn't that big of an issue. The issue is that half of the people in that room snore like freight trains and no matter where I went in the hotel room, I couldn't get away from it. So, my best solution was to put on my headphones, connect it to what was an iPhone 3G running whited00r at the time (My first smart phone for use as a simple PDA I got for 30 bucks), and then just play music for the entire night. I didn't have much (like 12 songs) but on repeat it was enough for me to fall asleep and moderately annoy everybody else in the room as they weren't really good headphones and sound bleed was excessive even on lower volumes (it was a fun vacation).I also used to just play the radio at night while I slept. I haven't intentionally tuned into a radio for years, but that was fun while I did it.I know you said no headphones, but I would give it a try. If you like earbuds, then you're golden as those are perfect for sleeping. I can't stand earbuds so that's a no go for me.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 04:38:20 pm
content: Do you believe this active sound canceling device is as illustrated in the video?https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/170649-sono-a-noise-cancelation-and-isolation-device-that-sticks-on-your-window

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 07:28:34 pm
content: Hope the talk goes alright, if you do have to take the antagoniatic roite, just do it subtly, have a low pass filtered percussion mic on the spot they play and a speaker under the parents bedroom, share the love.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 09:32:05 pm
content: Do youknow a guy that knows a guyto do a friendly door knock on the noisy neighbors ?money well spent and mates rates discounts for musicians

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 11:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 06, 2018, 04:38:20 pmI am by no means an expert, so I am talking out of my ass here, but in my mind this doesn't sound impossible, just impractical.Sound is just the vibration of air particulate in a certain position, I believe back and forth. You can capture sound through a microphone, and technically output the negative sound to that. The only issue is that this is all localized. The positions at where this would be effective would probably be very limited. Just move to another place in the room, and then the sources of the sounds are closer/farther, the intensities have changed, and the negative sound doesn't really cancel anymore, or at least not as well.Then again, it could still do something, I don't know.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:21:55 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 06, 2018, 04:38:20 pmI don't think the concept is outside the realms of possibility. The window pane acts as both the microphone diaphragm and the speaker "cone" - with some clever DSP controlling a mass driver. As a concept in itself, the biggest question I would have is powering such a device. I can't see a lot of energy getting transferred through WiFi.Factors which I would consider helpful in this concept is that the target sounds would be likely coming from far enough away that the window pane could be adequately treated as a planar interface, without requiring any significant phase difference considerations. You could almost consider it a point source. The next is that the area of sound transmission - the window pane - is the exact same medium that is driven by the mass driver ... having the same rigidity and modes of vibration. The third is that this single pane can be considered as the only area that is likely to transmit sound from outside that is going to be at levels of any concern.This specific solution would not - I think - be anywhere near as effective against ceiling sounds. For a start, the ceiling will be acting as a sounding board, converting physical stomps and thumps directly into a broad area source. There would need to be a lot more energy available to negate this.Second, the stomping around can be in different locations, so there is no real possibility for a solution based on a point source equivalent. This would apply - to a slightly lesser extent - for conversation and other noise sources that don't involve direct mechanical excitation of the floor/ceiling interface. These are less localised - but not completely homogeneous. You can still tell roughly in which room the "discussions" are being conducted in the dwelling above.I would suggest an experiment worth trying - as a start to further development - would be to have a number of these devices, each mounted on a panel and suspended from the ceiling... perhaps even using the current "suspension ceiling" systems that are in wide use.Imagining a ceiling of such panels makes me wonder if such a thing might actually work. Technically, that is. Financially, it's not going to help the average apartment dweller.Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 06, 2018, 11:30:37 pmThe localization is the reason I see this actually working - because the external sounds all meet at the window pane - and it's the window pane that retransmits the sound. Sure you will get sounds passing through other portions of the building which this device won't be able to address, but the level of those tends to be much lower. These would add that subtle ambiance to the sounds coming through the window pane that could provide directionality - but would not be as bothersome on their own.Just thinking pout loud....

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:24:44 am
content: ElectroBOOM did an episode on such a device. Apparently, it's total nonsense. See the video below.Talking to the neighbours is the most likely to have long term results. Attitude, intonation and demeanour is everything, though. It's almost impossible not to take your frustration into that conversation, but you need to do so. Just a very slightly different attitude or intonation can change the outcome of the conversation dramatically, even if the words are the same. If you're not careful, your pent up frustration can make your complaint feel like an assault. After all, you've been living with this frustration for a while now and these people might not even have realized anything is wrong yet. Even before the conversation has started you're miles apart, and you need to end up at the same point. To avoid them going on the defense, it's important to remain calm and reasonable throughout.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:36:45 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on February 06, 2018, 11:30:37 pmThe localization is the reason I see this actually working - because the external sounds all meet at the window pane - and it's the window pane that retransmits the sound. Sure you will get sounds passing through other portions of the building which this device won't be able to address, but the level of those tends to be much lower. These would add that subtle ambiance to the sounds coming through the window pane that could provide directionality - but would not be as bothersome on their own.Just thinking pout loud....External sound can be at different intensities depending on where you are in a room. If I have a stereo on one side of the room, and this thing on the other, the closer and farther I get from the stereo, the louder and quieter it gets. Since this device's speaker can only output one intensity of sound at a time, and it can't get louder the father you get away from it, the cancellation will lose effectiveness the farther you get from it, and the range at which this starts is something I do not know.Not to mention, if you have sound that isn't really air vibrations more than vibrations throughout the walls and ceiling, then you can still feel the vibrations. I doubt this thing has the power to counteract the distributed energy of some overactive twits rehearsing the entirety of the play Stomp one floor up.This I think was actually done in a car on TopGear UK, but they never went into how well it worked.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:44:41 am
content: Except for your bed frame bouncing around due to vibration in the house, being fed right through your skeleton, it looks as if you want silence, especially at very low frequencies, your only solution is the modified method of inserting those orange earplugs right down your ear canal which I posted on page 1 of this topic. Also note that once they are worn like that, there is no vibration in the air or movement or physical contact with your pillow as you shift your head position while sleeping making them even more silent + completely unobstructive. When I said you become near death, I mean you can't hear anything, even anything muffled, except for your lousy annoying heart beat... Better get used to that...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 01:41:28 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 05, 2018, 02:47:05 amIt would naive to think many countries don't depend on the income fines provide to close budget gaps. In some cases the increase of fines is even explicitly tied to the need for more money. When there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that shows that increasing fines has no lasting effect on safety, yet the fines keep being increased consistently, you know it's not about safety.Besides, research has shown that financial punishment isn't very effective at all. There's a base effect, but after that making fines higher doesn't make them more effective. What actually is effective is increasing the likelihood of getting caught. Of course, that involves making investments which isn't politically desirable at all. It also turns out that community service often is much more effective than a fine, but again having people just pay fines is better for the bottom line. Of course, simply increasing the fines is something that's easy to sell too. Intuitively many people feel bigger fines are more effective, even if that intuition is wrong. It's not hard to see why a firm public stance on undesired behaviour and a better bottom line is politically appealing.Note that I'm not arguing against fines. They're a useful tool and have their place in the penal system. However, we see that in many countries it's slowly become another way of raising revenue, and that the discussion surrounding them has nothing to do with effective punishment. There are cases where fines are so stupidly high that it has basically become a reverse lottery. People don't have to like it as that's the point, but leaving people feeling robbed isn't helping things either.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 09:59:13 am
content: Good points aboveMy point is the p0lice are not doing their job to increase safety by targeting the real offendersrather they pull over easy soft targets like mum, dad, gramps and tired tradies heading home, that will just pay up, shut up and 'move on'There's no point having these uniformed armed tax funded employees out there leeching money from law abiding citizens,and looking the other way or avoiding conflicts with dangerous hoons, drunks and car thieves, because their bosses above tell them to because of 'bottom line' BS polluting the police force**** them all, we don't need them, we need real police on the streets revenue raising on the crims and getting the *ssholes off our roadsDefenseless, gunless, cheque book wielding concerned citizens can't do much about it, especially with constant friendly fire on their backs from their own p0lice

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:24:04 am
content: Ha ha at people suggesting police intervention for some kids stomping around noisily at 6:20am! If the police can't turn up to tell my neighbours to turn off their 120dB dance music at 2:30am on a Monday I don't think they are going to bother turning up to old mates neighbours to tell their kids off for stomping too loudly.Just ask them nicely to make less noise. Failing that try retaliation with noise (still might not work), moving to another apartment (could have even more annoying neighbours) or moving to a free standing house (still no guarantee of quiet neighbours, but unlikely to be making significant noise that would wake you before 9)

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:29:52 am
content: Do you have a shotgun?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:40:47 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 07, 2018, 09:59:13 amSo... the police pull up and book people who arenotbreaking the law?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 11:42:48 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 07, 2018, 01:41:28 amI don't know about other countries, but in the UK, speeding fines get the driver points, i.e. black marks on their licence and if they get too many, they get their licence revoked and can no longer legally drive.I'm all for road safety and catching dangerous drivers, but speeding isn't always the issue it's made out to be. I don't know about other countries, but in the UK, there's no consistency in the set speed limits, which appear to be selected at random. There are two roads near where I live, about 20 miles apart from one another, both about the same size and a similar proximity to houses and schools, yet one has a 30mph speed limit and the other 50mph limit. There are guidelines for speed limits, but each local authority interprets them differently. One of the silly things is, there may be a 20mph limit, because the road is near a school, which may seem fair enough, but at the start and end of the school day, the traffic moves at less than 20, because parents are dropping/picking their children up. Now at night time, when the school is closed, the speed limit is silly because there are no children about, it's perfectly safe to go much faster, yet the stupid speed limit holds the traffic up!

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 11:57:02 am
content: Decent studies have found that excess speed causes very few accidents directly. While it is considered a contributing factor in many/most accidents it is "intention" that is the No.1 cause of accidents.I don't see anyone being done these days for:FacebookingChattingTextingNot paying the slightest attentionNot indicating (and dozens of other indications of inattention)They policy is simple. We can't increase, maintain or police the driver standards, so lets slow everyone down so less people die when inattentive idiots cause accidents.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:00:28 pm
content: I got pulled last year for chatting on the phone while driving and I wasn't even doing it so they're pretty hot on that. I was actually sticking my finger in my ear and the officer drove past in the opposite direction and did a 180. Officer requested to see the call logs on my phone which I showed him and he apologised and drove off.He tried to get me to admit it to start with by asking discrete questions to get me to admit to it. Best thing if they start doing that is immediately refuse to answer any questions until the officer has explained why I was pulled over.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 07, 2018, 11:57:02 amI think you meant 'inattention', although intention would be a pretty guaranteed reason for anincidentoccurring.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 12:52:45 pm
content: QuoteBe that as it may, also the case over here in NL, I still think that it should not be left to the individual driver to ignore posted limits and set their own.Funny thing is that the majority of people find that traffic should slow down in their own street. All these 30km zones are there for a reason. That reason can be safety, noise, air quality, whatever. But as soon as the same people are on their way in a car, passing through someone else's' street / village / city they think they can ignore speed limits because they make no sense.If you have a problem with a set limit contact the authorities and get it changed. Up till then, stay within the limit.

author: jasonbrent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 01:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 04, 2018, 01:16:57 pmThis.I'm a new parent at almost 42 years old... 5 month old... not to diminish how you feel at all, but it's possible those parents feel at least that. I don't want my child screaming, or crying, ... heck, as a parent *I* wear noise cancelling headphones around the house because I am sound sensitive (more specifically, I'm sensitive to sounds I'm not creating as they interrupt thoughts).Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 04:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 07, 2018, 12:52:45 pmIf everybody drove to "the standard" there would be no need for statutory speed limits as everybodywouldset their own and, more often than not, in an urban environment that limit would be under the posted limit. "The standard" being to "drive at such a speed that you can stop, under control, on your own side of the road/own lane, within the distance you can see is clear and will continue to be clear". Easy, you'd think, but hardly anybody does it in practice.That will be my sole contribution on driving in this thread, as it's already wandering well off topic.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:07:46 pm
content: I suppose I should know by now that it is pointless to argue thefact of breaking a lawis irrespective of the arguments people build around the point. Debating (say) a specific speed limit is not something you do with your motor vehicle out on the road. If the speed limit is 50 and you're doing 60 - that's breaking the law. That is black and white. If you don't like it - take it up with the traffic authority.Quote from: Cerebus on February 07, 2018, 04:04:16 pmI am compelled to agree - and my complicity in that is not denied. So I, too, will cease from that line of discussion.

author: RobNorthen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:10:34 pm
content: Gummy bears and rat poison......I feel with you, I have tried it too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:22:48 pm
content: Quote from: RobNorthen on February 07, 2018, 05:10:34 pmJust buy the sugarless Haribo ones. You want to hurt the parents, not the kids:https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/8gdga4/sugarless-gummy-bears-are-not-safe-for-humans

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 05:27:42 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 07, 2018, 05:07:46 pmIt's becoming difficult to do when those who ought to set an example of respect for the rule of law often fail dismally to do so.The supreme court in the UK ruled, in 2012, that the Home Office and the Police were illegally retaining custody images of acquitted persons. A report yesterday about the current use of these illegally retained images for automatic face recognition drove home the point that the government and police have hadsix yearsto comply with the rule of law and still fail to do so. I can quite see why some people might think "if the law is optional for those who make it and enforce it, why shouldn't I treat it as optional for me too". As the Italians say of corruption: "A fish rots from the head downwards".

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 08:22:13 pm
content: I don't know how are the council city's law in Germany, perhaps there are possibily that you may sue the parents by incivic behavoir("Of course with evidences: police report, logging the sounds, eyewitness,etc"). The council city could warn or fine to the infractor dependly of the case. But with a good fine of 5000€, many people react quickly.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 09:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on February 07, 2018, 11:42:48 amGood one matethat's the other issue I forgot to mention,mum, dad, gramps and local tradies get 'demerit'Rewardspoints on top of their 'compliance' to pay obvious revenue raising 3 to 4 kph brief 'over the limit' sneaky legal entrapment fees.If / when they lose 12 demerit points a loss of license occurs, and if they need the car to go to work to feed the kids and or pick up the kids they are SOLThe hoons, drunks and crims RARELY have to worry about losing points or fine money, much less get pulled over,and if they do, it's easy to do an interstate runner and continue their BS there,it's not like anyone is going to waste resources following up, or send bounty huntersMum, dad, gramps and local tradie are a much easier 'touch'with no chance of hot coffee and cinnamon donuts flying off the p0lice vehicle dashboard... in the unlikely event of a law breaker 'pursuit'So yeah to the OP/ original poster,don't hold your breath waiting for gun toting revenue raisers to rock up and word next door about keeping their offspring quietThey'll probably cuff you for interrupting their phone p0rn giggle session during paid 'safety camera' operations on their favorite quiet main road at 6.20am,where mum, dad, gramps and local tradie frequently drive through...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 07, 2018, 05:07:46 pmLaws should have a purpose and be reasonable. A law for the sake of the law itself isn't any good. I would argue it's actually a horrible thing. A law is a means to an end and should never be absolute. Not to mention there's plenty of outdated laws. Nobody wants every law strictly applied. Absolute chaos would ensue and normal life wouldn't be possible.Mind you, I'm not saying these are excuses for people to speed. There's a lot of idiots out there that do whatever they want, yet kick and scream when they get caught. There's plenty of people who will simply refuse to admit they may have been wrong, even if that's obviously the case. But simply claiming the law is the law Judge Dredd style isn't viable either. The most atrocious things have been justified by it simply being the law. Law is rarely black and white, if ever.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:28:16 pm
content: Starting to be more glad I live in the UK at the moment. From this thread I gather that Australia is like Mad Max and the USA is like The Running Man. 1980s film education was valuable after all.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 07, 2018, 10:28:16 pmI'm sure everyone else is glad you live in the UK too.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 11:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 07, 2018, 10:28:16 pmI've driven in the UK and it was not appreciably different than in the US. There were exactly the same types of drivers over there, slowpokes camping out in the fast lane, impatient twits weaving through traffic, people who hadn't discovered that little lever that activates the turn signals, tailgaters, speeders, people not paying attention, you name it. Perhaps I was hyper-aware, having to concentrate intensely to drive on the "wrong" side of the road, it's much harder than it seems like it would be.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:48:55 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 07, 2018, 11:23:05 pmSame deal here,I never see these obvious traffic offenders chased with disco/trance lights and sirens pumping, pulled over and bookedNope, speed and red light scamera combos is the way to go,easy money and no criminals, repeat offenders, time wasting unroadworthy or stolen car checks, or any bad attitude to deal withTo add further BS to the BS:There are no more road registration stickers displayed on car windscreens here anymore, so who knows how many cars are driving around unregistered?Mandatory Registration Fees are usually $800 per vehicle...money now better invested in a new smartphone or bulk discount beer slabs,hey, who's checking, and anyone can 'forget' and say sorry and pay if caught,or dump the car and score another one with or without rego paid up, right?This is another perfect example of more absurd decision making from the chardonnay sippers above,playing whip wielding school principal on the battler little people that pay their bloated wages,their filthy backs covered by clueless compliant unpaid apologists

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 01:59:51 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 08, 2018, 12:48:55 am

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 02:06:47 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 08, 2018, 12:48:55 amReally? You just jumped from claiming automated enforcement (freeing up police time to stop people for other offences) is unwanted/undesirable and then immediately question the departure of registration stickers....Which are redundant now that ANPR is used routinely, linked to the current registration databases, and that has been in use for years:https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/inside-a-highway-patrol-car-the-technology-fitted-to-every-nsw-police-force-vehicle-20151111-gkwu1m.htmlIf you'd like to show us some figures or data that suggests police (speed or otherwise) enforcement is poorly targeted you're welcome to, but so far you're just waffling on and adding more noise.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 02:57:02 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 04, 2018, 09:54:34 amI learned this the hard way. Only solution - move

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:08:48 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 08, 2018, 02:57:02 amHow about trying for the apartmentabovethe offending neighbours....?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:05:55 am
content: Since this is an electronics forum, we need to solve this problem electronically. The only thing I can think of is putting sensors on the ceiling and come up with a solution using them.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:07:22 am
content: Quote from: Someone on February 08, 2018, 02:06:47 amThat's your opinion and waffle, and while you're at it, let's see your figures and data to the contrary.I base my comments on what I see go down every day, not silly public awareness marketing BS and web posted feelgood statistics pulled out from someones @rse and never contestedNo one locally is checking on unregistered vehicles being driven about in a discrete manner, it's just not possible,whereas with Expiry Date and yearly coloured rego stickers, number plates and VIN numbers it was a lot harder to get away with it,a local constable or parking creep could spot them and report, or concerned citizen suspecting a dumped car in their street.You don't need database access and a helicopter for that either... more wasted motorist money for the purposes of straight up revenue raisingand joy ridesThey can only catch up with the average punters in late model vehicles, not the real crims and law breakers

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:21:49 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 08, 2018, 05:05:55 amTime for all the previous electronic and non-electronic non-starters to bow down before my electronic technically feasible solution which will actually work with around 100$ of alibaba/ebay junk, or even stuff the OP may already have on hand.Ok, since we know that noise cancellation will almost be impossible, I have the one solution you can do, though a little dirty, but, completely FAIR if done right.Place a microphone mounted to the ceiling where the kids make their noise. Attach it to an around 100 watt class D amplifier board + sub woofer mounter on the ceiling of where their parents are sleeping. Now, any time the kids make noise, their parents hear it waking them up.If the neighbors complain, tell them is a new physical mounted ceiling hardware, say a fancy long lamp or ceiling fan or something or other, which appears to pass noise from one floor's room to another as it reverberates vibrations from adjacent rooms. Tell them the noise they hear is from their kids.The trick here is to get the volume on the amp just right and you can now never turn it off of they might begin to question whats going on. If you want to get sneaky about it, just start with a low volume and every other day things get noisy above you, inch up the volume slightly until the day the kids begin to be shut up by the parents just thinking their kids are getting particularly loud. Then lock in that volume level and they will never know what you have done.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:18:49 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 08, 2018, 05:07:22 amIn WA pretty much *all* traffic police cars have multi-angle real time ANPR in them. My dad got busted less than 3 weeks after his rego expired. The officer was kind enough to explain and demonstrate the system and how it is applied. The system works, and it's far easier workload wise that manually keeping up with sticker colours or checking numbers.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:23:03 am
content: I mean Tesla coils are an option...

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:09:59 am
content: Quote from: BradC on February 08, 2018, 06:18:49 amI'd like to see it work in busy congested traffic,with a trailer attachedplate swaps with other carsi.e. one paid reg fits allThe ANPR tech mentioned may be working, how well do we really know...?but losing the stickers wasn't necessary, it's created a convenient gateway for crims and cheapasses to drive around unregisteredI'm on the other side of straya btw, things can be rough and dark here, unlike sunny spacious WA

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:21:35 am
content: Everybody has gone way off topic.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:34:18 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 08, 2018, 08:21:35 am...but it may help OP nod off to sleep

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:47:35 am
content: Look, I'm getting a lot of reports on various things on this thread. Can we agree that the whole thing is a bit off topic anyway and a ranting shop. If you can't deal with that then leave the topic alone. I think in the 5 pages it has run so far the OP has had plenty of potential solutions:1) talk to them2) talk to the athorities3) piss them off by an even greater measure and hope they get the message4) move out

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:28:16 am
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 04, 2018, 09:25:45 amAsk if they’ve got a rug in the kids room. If they don’t yet, a simple (thick) rug can significantly reduce the noise intrusion to the space below.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:48:08 am
content: Buy a rug.Then roll the parent in it and put them in your car boot and take them to the nearest forest... you get the idea

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:50:53 am
content: I was thinking of a rug as well.... but a kid themed one they could put in the kids' bedroom.No rolling involved.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 10:23:21 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 07, 2018, 05:07:46 pmThis is such a passive and subservient attitude it makes my eyes water.Who makes laws? The government. The government (are supposed to) serve the people and the people's interests. Thus by proxy, people make the laws. As you are indeed a person (though you don't seem to want to stand up for yourself) YOU are or can be involved in making the laws.There is an argument that states if a majority of people break a law, then it cannot realistically or practically be a law.The high focus on speed enforcement has a number of facades.1. Firstly it detracts time, effort and budget to fixing the real problems with driving standards.2. It aims to simply lower the limits and increase enforcement and thus increase revenue and reduce deaths, in lieu of actually dealing with point 1.3. Good drivers will ignore the limits if they are unrealistic.4. Bad drivers will ignore the limits because they are unobservant and too stupid to obey them.5. Knee jerk idiot safety campaigners "Would someone please think of the children!" will ask for limits to be lowered further because some people break them by excessive amounts.**Recently one such group in Scotland campaigned for the statutory limit of 60mph on single lane carriageways to be lowered to 50mph, quoting several instances of people being caught doing up to 150mph. This makes about as much logical sense as a bald cat is beautiful!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:18:37 am
content: Quote from: Simon on February 08, 2018, 08:47:35 amTwo years ago, I was awoken by my neighbors, about 2 hours before I normally wake up.Thump thump thump... Someone walking, probably he has legs made from lead and wood.I stood it for a month, then I went to upstairs neighbor, to talk to them.A tiny lady opens the door, she is maybe 45 kg. Oh, she notices it also, at the same time, she also wakes up to this. OK, sorry to disturb you.I went hunting for the loud walker. You could hear him walk on 4 different floors in the building. Yes, the same walking. 7 steps up, 7 steps down. I tracked the guy down. He was living BELOW me. The guy was walking so loud, he awoke someone two floors above him. Imagine that.But, you know, I talked to him once. OK, he will be less loud. I talked to him twice. Third time, he sent a friend, who was standing in my living room, listening to him to walk. This was like in an absurd movie.But after a while, I had enough. You know,he is actually below me, it is an uphill fight for him. I have a sofa, it is on hard floor. I can lift it up with a hand, an let gravity to the rest. I was relentless, but I only did it when the cyberman was stomping downstairs. It was just fair. Tit for tat. He is not living there anymore.You cannot change how people walk. It is subconscious. I wasn't raised in a barn by cows, so I don't walk loud, others do. Pick your fights well, and good luck.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:03:46 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 08, 2018, 11:18:37 amI beg to differ! As a teenager, I learned to literally glide around the apartment silently at night, so as to prevent even the tiniest floorboard creak, lest an errant sound cause my stepdad’s hypersensitive wrath to be unleashed.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 12:51:38 pm
content: You can also break their legs, that usually changes how the walk. Apparently it's not "the done thing" though

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 01:48:28 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 08, 2018, 12:51:38 pmAFAIK that is illegal in some countries.I know from Top Gear, that sawing someone's leg off (to be able to sit in the back seats of a BMW 1 series), is illegal in the UK.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 02:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 08, 2018, 01:48:28 pmIt's illegal to handle salmon under suspicious circumstances in the UK. I think a dual forced amputation should be overlooked considering that oppression.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 02:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 08, 2018, 10:23:21 amNonsense. Good and bad drivers do not know why a certain limit is where it is. Good drivers keep to the limit for exactly this reason and can try to change a limit if they feel it is unrealistic. Bad drivers don't give a shit one way or another and should have their cars impounded, their licenses revoked and issued a bus pass.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 03:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 08, 2018, 02:32:12 pmA good driver will have a very good idea why a limit is or isn't in a certain place. Sometimes it's fairly obvious to the educated driver.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 04:09:13 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 08, 2018, 02:32:12 pmOh really? They look like arbitrary numbers to me. Like here, they never place a sign, which starts with an even number. Always 10-30-50-70. God knows why. Probably because that how they are marked on the speedometer (IDK, I have a digital number on it), and the 1 bit user has hard time setting it between two lines. On my commute way, in the last 2 years, 5 sign was changed. I mean reduced. Yesterday, the road was fine till 70, today it isn't. Nothing else changed.The best reasons to reduce the speed limit is usually "but there are too many cars here".Yes, because give me an alternative. No? OK, then I take the car. And because you reduced the speed limit, I will spend MORE time there. Now there will be even MORE cars, because of that. And some of them will be speeding. Good reason to reduce the speed limit.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 05:55:45 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 08, 2018, 05:05:55 amHere in the UK, if a noise complaint gets to the point where you ask someone official to step in (local council noise abatement officers in the case of the UK) one of the bits of evidence that is very helpful to have is a diary noting when excessive noise was made. Using electronics one could go a step further and automate that recording. You could even go as far as recording sound level measurements, but the latter would need some calibration to be have useful evidential value.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:10:37 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 08, 2018, 11:18:37 amMy experience is that the ability to make noise by thumping around on floors is inversely proportional to weight. I am over 80kg, I makenonoise walking around the place. My other half is around 52kg, she can be a bit noisy. The cat is under 4kg, she makes the most noise underfoot.I used to work with a lass called Hazel who was so slight that I could have tucked her under one arm and walked around with her without effort. We worked on the 6th floor of a concrete office block with solid floors. Rupert, who was over 125kg walked around without a whisper or a tremor; when Hazel walked up to your desk you could feel the floor vibrating through your chair.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:12:12 pm
content: Lol, cats can be really noisy on upper stories. It's nuts.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 06:17:54 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 08, 2018, 04:09:13 pmProbably the same as here, where if the reported accident rate on a stretch of road exceeds a certain number per mile per year then the speed limit is automatically reduced. However, if the accident rate falls there's never an automatic increase of speed limits which would be the logical thing if this was actually a proper control system with feedback.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:31:47 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 08, 2018, 03:34:55 pmAnd sometimes it is not. I live on (at, in?) a street in a small village. The road does not invite to speed; it is maybe 6-7m wide, it is made of pavement (not asphalt), cars are parked, there's a pedestrian crossing halfway. There's also a lot of bicycle traffic day and night (we're in Holland after all).There is no posted limit so you can legitimately do 50k. Any educated driver understands that in streets like this around 30k would be a sensible speed. A large number of people every day go over 50. Some go way over.Educated drivers? They do not exist. People change from normal thinking human beings to cavemen (and women) when put behind the wheel of a car.Back to electronics: I can't wait for autonomous vehicles. Take the monkey out of the equation will benefit us all

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 08:57:10 pm
content: Guys there seems to be a misunderstanding that I am still living in Germany.Apologies for that, I just moved back to my home country (Lebanon).Will talk to the neighbours when I see them, till then I have chosen to soundproof my ceiling.It's a cemented ceiling and I was told by a local soundproofing co (fantoni) that what I need to do is create a false ceiling 30cm or so below the current one hung by steel strands and stuff the gap with very dense sound deadening material.They said that a sound proofing perforated panel is an option instead of gypsum board but that stuff work better for isolating the sound within a room and not as effective at blocking incoming sounds and vibrations from the neighbours.Should cost me around 3k $ for a 25 square meter room which I think is quite expensive but that includes the price of the perforated acoustic panels (not the dry wall option).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 09:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 08, 2018, 05:21:49 amThis gets my vote for the best solution. If this topic gets shut down - maybe someone can start a new one that is more focused on unique electronic solutions for this problem. I am sure that there are others with the same problem.I am going to change the title - never did this before but someone did it to me. Don't know what is going to happen. Just trying to get this focused on electronics.

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 08, 2018, 05:21:49 amIf talking doesn't work, this is the BEST answer I've read any time. Simply brilliant.Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2018, 11:12:12 pm
content: I think squirting liquid ass through their letterbox once a week is quicker and cheaper

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 07:57:31 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 08, 2018, 05:21:49 amWhile this may be very satisfying in the short run, it's a perfect recipe to dig yourself into a hole you'll never get out again without moving. You certainly won't be the first to get stuck in a war with his neighbours, both making each other's lives unbearable while not solving anything. While there always will be unreasonable people, simply talking to someone is always your best bet. You can always escalate things, but de-escalation isn't so easy.That begs the question, has OP talked to his neighbours by now?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:11:55 am
content: Quote from: paulca on February 08, 2018, 10:23:21 amWhat a simplistic view, sadly in a deteriorating society and one full of selfish dickheads this does not work. If you gave equal say to the thugs you will soon find all sorts of things to be legal. Ever heard about the buy (in the UK) that complained about kids damaging his hanging baskets and ending up being mobbed and beaten to death? If someone plays music so loud that it is clear they know they are disturbing everyone do you think they can be reasoned with ? having already demonstrated how unreasonable they are. Sadly parents are most often totally oblivious to their children's behaviour. My brother in laws brother has managed to put an end to Christmas's together because his little brat is an angel in his eyes so all of my side of the family now bugger off on holiday instead of have to deal with his oblivion and his child/drenAs you live in the UK you should know how hopeless the police are. there is 1 officer on duty on average for my town at any time, the only way they can deal with anything is to prioritise and pull in offices from neighbouring areas and strangely 5 turn up for a small thing and no one wants to know if it's more serious.Noise issues that come from within properties are not even dealt with by the police, that is down to the council that expect you to expose your identity to the offender before the offence is even acknowledged so they discourage enforcement and won't come out at 11pm to witness it.Standing up for oneself as you put it can mean you either end up a further victim or on the wrong side of the law.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:21:30 am
content: Couldn’t agree more. The only way to deal with cunts, as they are colloquially known as, is to be as unreasaonable as they are. For example I live at the end of a block of houses. The border of my property is a dead end. If some pikey twunt trespasses, instead of going back, they kick the fence down. To solve this I put industrial grade fencing up. So they climbed over it and broke it.So I put carpet tack strips all over the top which went nice and rusty. Cue torn shell suit, blood stains and tetanus. WinThe smartphone is a great invention. Pull that fucker out and record someone being a cunt. If they hit you the police will be all over it like a seagull on chips because it’s easy. If they don’t then they back off. Had some crazy bitch reverse into me outside the school a couple of years back and blame me “bumpers are for bumping”. So I recorded her losing her shit and calling me all the names under the sun loudly to detract from my calling her out on it. Emailed it to the local police station (email is a win), got a call back and she got a caution and I got a crime number and handed it all over to the insurance company.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:28:16 am
content: That is essentially why i have a dash cam, I do their jobs for them and I get dealt with.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:29:05 am
content: Yes dash cam was a good investment here too. Just pointing at it is enough to avoid a lot of situations.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:30:23 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 09, 2018, 07:57:31 amNever get out of again, forever? Kids grow up... Your having their parents train them to be quieter in the morning using my system. Either that, or once they are old enough, the parents will send them out if they are too noisy in the morning.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:49:42 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 09, 2018, 08:30:23 amWhen you start a fight it's not about the kids any more. There's plenty of neighbours who fight simply because they started fighting one day and never stopped, with the root cause having become fully irrelevant or forgotten. Neighbours can make your life hell. You can make theirs hell too, but that doesn't make your life any better. Souring a relationship is easy, making it work is hard, and living next to someone means having to deal with them.You don't have to just accept what they throw you, but it pays to be diplomatic. Even being right isn't wholly relevant.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:03:09 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 08:29:05 amAs i did with one road rager, he was so scared be broke the speed limit despite thinking he was on camera to get away from me.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:35:23 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 09, 2018, 08:49:42 amPerhaps you didn't understand my hardware's method. The goal is to make the parents hear equally what you hear from being beneath the children's room, recognize that their children are actually jumping around. My device doesn't randomly make noise in the parents room, or make the children's noise louder. It makes it identical or even slightly less to what you hear living below, for real, in real time, the actual sound. Why should they get to live in relative silence being on the upper level while you get the pounding from your ceiling.You don't go through the price and hassle of buying $$$ and setting up and tuning my apparatus if you haven't already tried the free approach of asking multiple times friendly and not getting results. Why should you have to be the one to move if they wont quiet down.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:47:29 am
content: Note that at my old semi-detached house, it only took 1 solid verbal agreement, between 10am and 11pm, anything goes music wise. Unless there was a special request for any special reason to go outside of those hours, or, to be quiet throughout the day. The agreement held for around 6 years without issue.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 09:55:16 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 09, 2018, 09:35:23 amI completely understand what you're trying to do, but that approach is way too analytical. You need to recognize that these people aren't looking at things from a neutral perspective. They're just trying to live their lives and you're making it more complicated. You're also creating unneccesary noise, while their kids are just being kids. "You can't exactly expect children to be dead quiet, now can you?" would be a response that isn't even that unreasonable.Doing to them what they do to you is mathmatically sound, but this isn't an equation that needs to be solved. You need empathy on both sides to get anywhere. Being what's undoubtedly perceived as a smartass isn't going to foster it. Again, being right isn't going to help you if things go sour because of it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:09:20 am
content: This is all why I made sure I bought a house and not a flat and preferred an end of terrace to a middle one. only one neighbour to listen to and they are fairly reasonable, even the one next to them that played music so load you can hear it "through" the neighbours have managed to grow out of it. complaining would be pointless as they know what they are doing and I'd like to keep my car in more or less one piece.Currently paying my mortgage off as fast as I can so that I can move out, rent the place and use that rent to pay for something nicer.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:10:43 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 09, 2018, 09:47:29 amThat would be an example of an excellent way to handle things. Talk to each other, give each other some leeway and agree upon what's reasonable. You both concede hearing from the neighbours is inevitable, yet also limit the nuisance.I've made a point of talking to any new neighbours moving in, giving them my number so they can call me whenever they experience trouble. I've found that this greatly reduces the annoyance caused by any noise you make, and they're more likely to talk to you before things get really tense. I think research even confirms that this works. The idea of being able to do something about the things that stresses you reduces the total stress experienced. The idea you can't control the thing that stresses you increases stress. Without changing your own behaviour one bit, you can still impact the stress perceived by the neighbours.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 10:39:26 am
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 08, 2018, 08:57:10 pmOP is going to be out of pocket 3Kthat's a lot of test gear money blown for soundproofing that may or may not block out the annoying frequencies that affect his sleepCan that stuff be tuned to suppress selected frequencies or is it a damping turkey shoot?Time for dog poo and male cat pee to regularly appear at the noisy neighbours door perhaps?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:03:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 09, 2018, 10:09:20 amConsider yourself fortunate to live somewhere where that is an option. Here in Switzerland, real estate is so expensive that even purchasing a flat is out of reach for most people. (A quick search on a real estate site shows the cheapest single-family home here in Zurich at 1.7 million CHF — about 1.8 million USD or 1.3 million GBP — and the absolute cheapest rowhouse, a little 91m^2 thing, at 650K CHF.) I'm pretty sure that the flat that I rent would cost somewhere around a million to purchase (rent control laws working in my favor to give me this place at, frankly, below market rate). ::sigh::

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 01:27:08 pm
content: Well from what you are saying house prices and flat prices are quite high in Switzerland. Switzerland does indeed have a reputation for being expensive. We can't really help their and if we are talking relative values they seem to be around the same. I was extremely lucky in that my father had savings he was willing to lend me for a deposit and house prices had crashed and I found a house in the cheapest area of town. A bit of a dump (a few weeks ago the police were chasing someone down the other end of the street with a gun) but it's a house. I would have paid perhaps 30% less for a flat which I would never have truly owned and would properly have had to pay some sort of ground rent on. But if it was not for circumstances I would be homeless. As things stand I am not much better off now than I was when I bought my house for a mere £87,000. The value now has risen to around £120,000 now that prices are backup. So basically house price increases have outstripped my wage increases so the only of getting out of here is to leverage on the fact that I bought it at just the right time and I can afford to pay for it and if I am sappy with my money I can hopefully pay the mortgage off earlier than the bank anticipated and they use this house to fund another house. Rents are worth at the moment at least twice what a mortgage payment is so I would get more value from this property by using its red value than its actual property value to purchase another house. This is of course all in the future. And it doesn't matter what area you move to you can still have bad neighbours. It's just a case that at least in this country but lower cost housing tends to house people who are thugs which is part of the reason why they can't afford to live anywhere nicer. It is also an area where people are housed in social housing by councils and sometimes these people are also thugs and won't even work for a living. The class system in the UK is a farce. Because we don't know talking about money we have to call it something else. Classes about how much money you earn and how fancy a house you can afford. This is why often people in low cost housing by flashy cars to impress those who have no idea of where they live. I only other hand would rather drive the cheapest car I can and put the difference into my house.But none of this addresses the problem. Only the original poster knows if he can afford somewhere nicer where perhaps he will have nicer neighbours again in view of the fact that people with more money tend to be those who know how to get on with people and therefore climb the social or should I say monetary ladder. On the other hand the upstairs neighbours might respond to a polite request that they give some consideration to the fact that the floors are not very thick. In this country floors between flats are no different to the floors in a house. In my house even though it is a solid 1947 build I can hear the cats jumping off the windowsill and landing on the floor. When I lived with my father briefly who was in a flat we could hear everything upstairs from people walking around to their arguments.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 03:40:52 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 09, 2018, 01:03:22 pmOn the other hand in some regions of Switzerland they have laws protecting you from noise. AFAIK it is illegal to flush toilet on weekends at night if it would disturb the neighbors. I mean, even if this is not enforced, I like the mentality. Today I woke up, because the new tenant upstairs decided to do vacuum cleaning, so he started moving furniture and I guess play ping-pong with bowling balls.And I would like the rest periods actually enforced. Like they cannot start construction work before 7AM. So what do they do? They turn up with their trucks before. Nobody works, but you have a truck in front of your window on idle, sometimes whirring the engine, usually backing up into an alley, going "beep beep beep". Yeah, that is not annoying at all. Then at 07:00:01 they start with 15 minutes of jackhammering.I think part of the 21 century will be about increasing the quality of life, by reducing these disturbances. Like making furniture, where the door doesn't auto-slam disturbing eveyone in the 8 flats around you. Or getting rid of combustion engine. Or getting rid of construction workers, and having it nice quiet automated, between 10 AM - 4 PM. I think half the issues would be solved by not using 12th century construction materials for the buildings.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 05:04:04 pm
content: Unfortunately builders and road workers always have to remind you how important they are. And they make sure their importance is felt by how long a drag every job out. Here I think you are not supposed to make a noise after 11 o'clock. I would prefer 10 o'clock as having been aggravated all evening I'm hardly going to settle down and go to sleep the second the noise stops and I actually get into bed a little after 10 o'clock which scarcely gives me eight hours until I get up at about 6:30.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 05:26:18 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 09, 2018, 09:35:23 amMaybe you could get a patent on it or start a kickstarter and sell them?

author: madsbarnkob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:09:43 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 04, 2018, 09:25:45 amI used to have the same grasp of the world and someone else invading my private sphere, which at that point of my life clearly expanded outside of my own 4 walls.Things change when you then have kids of your own.You find out that these are things out of your control.Kids does not develop a proper day/night rhythm, I can not even tell you when, our daughter is 4 years old now and its still not compatible with adults. Kids need to sleep 11 hours a night, when put in bed at 1900, that means you have them up again at latest 0600 in the morning, most of the time earlier. Now add that kids have a ton of nightmares, night terrors and being-afraid-of-being-left-alone-in-the-dark experiences, so you also get up along the night. Or get to sleep along your kids with a foot in your face.Kids have absolutely zero understanding of their surroundings, there is only ME, motoric skills are far from fine tuned.Kids are building their bodies and muscles, all the time, they are pre-programmed to always be on the move, jump, run, explore, climb etc etc, there is nothing you can do to stop this, if you tackle this and get passive kids that only sit and watch TV, well, good luck in the future with a limped physical development early in life.Now what did we do to make life more tolerable for our neighbours, up and down too, we talked with them.We tried to find solutions on when we were home, when neighbours were home, tried to find a way of scheduling noise to be at hours where it was of least nuisance.We have had endless talks with our kid about how it is important to remember that there is other people in the building and noise just for the sake of making noise is bad.But we can repeat this 60 times a day, there is simply no room or grasp in the kids mind for this kind of taking care of other people in a abstract plane like this.Best of luck with living in a shared building, but remember that it comes with noise to do so.We are now moving into our own house and it is also a relief to us that we are no longer make life intolerable for others.Print out your own original post, keep it safe somewhere, wait until you have your own kids and they are around age 3-4, then find your printed out paper and read it again

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:11:19 pm
content: I've got 31 years of combined experience with children. I disagree on every point.

author: madsbarnkob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2018, 08:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 09, 2018, 08:11:19 pmYou will have to elaborate on that, for it being a argument.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 12:18:18 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on February 09, 2018, 10:39:26 amThe sad point here is that if sound still makes it through, drummerdimitri will have lost 3k$ and be left with my disgusting 2$ 'earplug' hack here on page 1:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/neighbours-children-driving-me-mad!/msg1417536/#msg1417536Note that orange apparently isn't the only color today, what's important is that bottom rim and that the surface of the foam is flat plastic like & once squeezed it re-inflates as slowly as possible.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 02:49:57 am
content: I heard the Dakota (apt ?) building in New York has 3 feet of dirt between floors. They do not have a sound problem. Of course you have to be a billionaire to live there.If the OP owns his place (this is too long to figure this out) then if he spends 1,000s, he might be increasing the value of his place. Three feet of dirt did not hurt the value of the Dakota units.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 03:19:05 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 10, 2018, 02:49:57 amI never thought of dirt, but, you are right, dirt may filter out more frequencies than concrete...

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 03:58:21 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 10, 2018, 03:19:05 amIron filings...lead paste...depleted uranium pellets?How much money do you want to spend?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 04:06:21 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on February 10, 2018, 03:19:05 amThere's no "may" about it. Concrete does not suffer plastic deformation in normal use. Just about all energy imparted to it goes somewhere. Dirt, on the other hand, will take a lot of that energy in the jostling of particles that are a lot more loosely confined than what you will find in concrete.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 04:08:07 am
content: Quote from: Someone on February 10, 2018, 03:58:21 amYou haven't been paying attention to the budgetBrianHGhas been running with - have you?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 04:23:01 am
content: The Dakota is where John Lennon lived with his wife Yoko and their family, and where she still lives.The classic 70s horror film "Rosemary's Baby" was filmed there.---------I just want to say, count your blessings.. You're lucky you dont live in San Francisco, where rents have been rising so fast landlords now actually hire people to drive their current, law abiding, rent paying good tenants out of the buildings for the simple reason that they are too stable and too reliable. Instead they want churn, new tenants who will pay exponentially increasing rents.That means they hire workmen and other annoying people to make their tenants lives into a living hell until they move.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 04:58:23 am
content: At my new apartment, back in September through December, new tenants on the first floor would blast their stereo between 11pm and 5am on Thursdays nights through Tuesday mornings. They got kicked out...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 05:00:16 am
content: Tenants are easier to deal with than an owner/occupier.

author: drummerdimitri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 07:42:50 am
content: I thinkl I made it clear that we are all owners of our appartments in this building.Also keep in mind that these are highly luxurious units costing 1.6m $ so to be disturbed by noise kinda sucks at this price point

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 09:32:45 am
content: I do not think the OP can use dirt. The ceiling is hard to deal with and the false ceiling is probably his best advice. Some products used in walls however is a drywall product that has a rubber type compound between layers.A product I used is a locally made powder that is mixed with water. It is polymer (glue) and sand. It is used by Hollywood to coat polystyrene to make it look like plaster. I have covered walls and ceilings (1/4 inch max) with it because it can cover defects very well and since it is just glue and sand, it sticks like glue. For a sound wall I used metal lath and made it 1/2 inch thicker. I used about 400 pounds (mass) and the wall was only about 8x8 feet. Amazing stuff. My guess for a 12x12 room you could add a mass of 1,000 pounds by just troweling it on to the ceiling (if you could get it).The store that sells it, is a commercial supply store. I would check these type of stores out and tell them your problem. Maybe you can find a specially product that would help.Another "sticky" product with a lot of mass is stucco patching material.If me and money no object, I would put in another ceiling (not hanging). I would use glue-lam beams that are bolted to the studs.So there are some exotic products out there that can solve a lot of problems.But I still like the bio-feedback method the best.

author: med6753
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 11:30:03 am
content: To the original poster....you've gotten some good advice in here and I really can't offer anything more other than hopefully you can resolve your noisy situation peacefully.My situation: 1 bedroom apartment on the 2nd floor of a large 3 story house dating back to the 1860's that has been completely gutted and modernized. I have a separate living room, kitchen, and bath. One large apartment directly below me. One apartment on the 2nd floor with an a joining wall with our kitchens. A loft apartment on the 3rd floor directly over my living room and kitchen but luckily not over my bedroom. That's the layout. My lifestyle is that I work at night. My work hours are 8 PM to 4:30 AM. So I sleep during the day. Directly opposite of 99% of the rest of the world. This schedule can be extremely difficult if you have a family but I live alone so it works.Dealing with daytime noise so I can sleep can be a challenge. My best friend is a box fan which I run all year. During the Summer it's supplemented with a window A/C unit. With some exceptions that filters out almost all of the daytime noise. My landlord can even mow the lawn and usually I don't hear it. My phone is set to ringer/vibrate off. Friends/family are all aware of my schedule and they know if they call/text during the day I won't respond. I live in a rural area so the road in the front of my complex doesn't have a lot of traffic. But there is this moron redneck who lives a few houses down with a full size 4WD turbo diesel pickup with an open exhaust. It's very loud and he likes chomp on it and spool up the turbo until it reaches it's pop off with a loud hiss. Can't tell you how tempted I've been to shoot out his tires.My neighbors for the most part are quiet but they do have their obnoxious moments. Next door to me is this mid-fifties woman who I can best describe as being short and almost as wide as she is tall. And living with her is her 30's something unemployed son who probably clocks in at over 400 pounds. Poster children for the new fat America. He is usually quiet. She on the other hand is one nasty person and I avoid her like the plague. I don't think I've ever encountered someone so angry and unhappy. And she likes to park her fat ass in her kitchen (remember – joining walls) and either be complaining loudly on her phone, or bitching at her son, or even at her grandchildren when they visit. There are times I'm sitting in my kitchen and I have to listen to her loud crap. Luckily I can't hear it in my bedroom or we would be having a come to Jesus meeting.Above me are 2 guys who just moved in this past November. And they are extremely unfriendly. Well, maybe not “unfriendly” but very reclusive. I met one of them for about 30 seconds. The other I haven't met at all. And that's OK. Leave me alone, I leave you alone. But one of them, or possibly both, is an exercise freak. I can appreciate wanting to stay fit and healthy. And I see them both going out an running. But when it's real cold they don't run outside. They run in place in their living room directly above me. You know what that sounds like? Elephants trying to bust thru my ceiling. It goes on for sometimes a half hour or more. Again, I don't hear it my bedroom or we would have a big problem. But geez...can't you get a gym membership? If I ever get to talk to these guys I might mention it. But you know how people can be sometimes. It might piss them off. Oh well, too bad.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 01:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: drummerdimitri on February 10, 2018, 07:42:50 amIsn't there something like a home owners association? There has to be because apartment building need maintenance of shared things like roofs, elevators, hallways, etc.Edit: the first step would be to talk to the neighbours above though.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 03:26:21 pm
content: What would work even better would be as I said before, to make a hanging ceiling that sits a small distance below your current ceiling, then (a new idea) you could fill the space between them with a layer of rigid foam insulation. I think that would be the best long term solution. Foam, especially that super dense "rigid foam", deadens sound extremely well. You could also deaden that by surrounding the wood or whatever supports with foam. Make sure its not exposed to any source of flame and meets fire codes. We have these great pink foam boards (they interlock) which is used in basements. Behind walls. Its a very good insulator and it also deadens noise a great deal.make sure you meet fire codes.. I would ask a building engineer to give you a plan for your drop ceiling which was certified as meeting building codes for fire safety, and do your research. Flame retardants can also be toxic so keep that in mind when picking the foam to use. Do your research. In my experience the pink rigid foam (see pic below) does not smell at all.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 06:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 09, 2018, 03:40:52 pmThis is actually more urban legend than anything else. Some leases say "no showers after 10pm" or whatnot, but the law actually lays out that some activities (including toilet use, bathing, having sex, and children playing) are fundamental uses of a dwelling, and cannot be restricted, period. (So any such clauses are legally void.) It is established case law that one can do all of those things at any time, and none represent grounds for eviction, even if she's a screamer in bed. A nurse who works night shifts has every right to shower, poop, and make dinner when they get home at 3am. And kids are allowed to be kids.For sure, the Swiss do tend to be conscientious of each other, but it's not as crazy restrictive as it's often made out to be.Quote from: NANDBlog on February 09, 2018, 03:40:52 pmYep. This is something the Swiss are good at -- building solid buildings that don't carry much noise.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 08:10:09 pm
content: Tenants in Switzerland get a legal right to buy their apartments as condos?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 11:13:55 pm
content: Shoe box housing ticks a lot of... boxespositives which are quickly forgotten once the upstairs/downstairs/adjacentNOISEor random intermittent high / low racket beginsSell up and get out, it won't get any better if it's bad already,and you never know who the next 'nice friendly family' neighbours moving in will bepray it's not a noob drummer or deaf headfkt DJBuy a decent -separated- property further out near a train or bus station, or advertise or look up local caror helicopterpoolingSleep deprivation is one level below canceror trusting a $20 meter

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2018, 02:57:11 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 10, 2018, 09:32:45 amYour wall comment has made me come up with an interesting point, drummerdimitri, before you spend 3K$ on the ceiling, have you done any measurements of the audible sound coming off of the ceiling and connected walls and the floor? You might be spending money and only eliminating 25% of the sound while the wall still reverberate with just as much sound.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2018, 04:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on February 10, 2018, 08:10:09 pmNo.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2018, 10:53:50 am
content: What f***heads buy a shoe box with growing kids anyway ?There's the problem, dumbass parents that grew up on big suburban properties their parents busted ass in crappy jobs to pay off,now living in a hipster lifestyle shoebox, with little more than poodle space for the kids to roam and playObviously the local council do not gas about this stuff, as long as their ratass developer mates give them kickbacks

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2018, 08:58:01 pm
content: Not everyone has much choice. I'm fortunate to have bought a proper house years ago when it was within the realm of being affordable. If I had to start out today there's no way I could possibly get a foothold anywhere near this area. A lot of people live in the big cities because that's where most of the jobs are, and commuting is a nightmare in such a densely populated area.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 01:15:47 am
content: There's always a better option if choice is limitedThese people that want their cake and eat it all, aren't doing their kids or nuked nap neighbour OP drummerdimitri any favoursShoebox housing is geared at or convenient for working single people or couplesand easy dollars for unscrupulous developers and lazy investardsIt's not an ideal habitat for young/starter families that are bound to upset the balance of noise, and infringe upon surrounding occupants right to some freakin peace and quiet -SOMETIME- in the day or nighti.e. kids are 24/7 motion and noise machines, end of story...People should think hard about this stuff before planning to move into a shoeboxand or bonking without rubbersand ask themselves if their 'preferred' jobs have higher priority than their childrens' home environment,and keeping it real with their neighbours, who are always in closer proximity than relatives and friends are,and very handy people to be in good with, in case you need assistance@ drummerdimitri:sell up and get out of there mateeven if the kids shut up eventually, the parent tards will yield to more consumer dumbassery and buy a yelping, howling, bored DOG...and then you will know what real sleep deprivation hell is

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 07:30:15 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 12, 2018, 08:58:01 pmPeople in this thread seem to forget that "shoebox housing" is the only viable option for a lot of people in many of the more developed parts of the world. A single house, especially one with a yard, is often a pipe dream. Even in parts where affordable housing is available, this tends to be limited to the more rural areas. Go anywhere near the areas where actual jobs tend to be and prices skyrocket into the realm of dreams again.It's hardly realistic to expect everyone with a child or dog to sequester themselves from the real world.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 08:54:36 am
content: Or that someone might move in as a single person......thenget married....thenhave kids. (kiss goodbye to your "spare" cash)

author: Rbastler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2018, 10:39:36 am
content: Just never get married and have children and you can buy yourself some piece of quietness because of the extra cash. Choose wisley. After that you can't return.Feels like a very important choice in a video game...Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 03:59:27 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 03:01:15 amThe OP was complaining about the kids being up at 6:20 am playing. That is not night time. Otherwise good post.I can say from first hand experience that if a young child wants to be up early in the AM playing - there is nothing you can do short of immoral and/or illegal actions to stop it. My oldest son used to get up at 5:30am ready to go every day. My wife an I are both physicians who sometimes have to work long hours and must be up in the middle of the night. We treasure our sleep as much as anyone and I do not get up early unless I have to. (Fortunately my son grew out of that habit)People who live in dwellings which share a wall, floor or ceiling with another dwelling and who expect their neighbors to eliminate all noise from normal activities of daily living (that includes playing children if present) during usual waking hours need to grow up and get over it. Mature adult behavior means having a reasonable discussion with neighbors to see if there are ways to mitigate the sounds but other than that it's learn to live with it or move.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 04:20:51 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 03:01:15 amWhen I lived in Taiwan, all the places I lived had concrete and rebar between floors. All the places I have lived in the US have not. Since the OP posted this, I assume he does not. So the Chinese know how to live together.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 04:38:13 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 04:23:59 amIn Taiwan, the highest floor I lived on was the 5th. In the US it has been the second. Do we know what level the OP lives on?But if I have to move, I will certainty look into concrete floors. So thank you for bringing this up. If I had to make a guess, I would say anything over 5 in the US will have concrete. Good question.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 08:17:53 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 04:23:59 amBased on US building codes, I would not be surprised."Waaaaahhh! Our house blew away in a storm!""Please find and read the story of the three little piggies."Currently it's hoffing a gale of about 60-80mph here. I'm not the slightest bit worried even if it tops over a 100mph as my house is built of brick, block, plaster and heavy slate roof. It's nice in the worse weather to listen to the roof click and crack while lying toasty warm in bed.The flip side is our houses cost a hell of a lot more, but in comparison we have generally higher wages, bigger mortgages and better employment rights/assurances.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 08:51:55 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 04:23:59 amO yes, you can:http://www.teamv.nl/en/project/haut/Foundation is concrete, the rest is wood. Remains to be seen how solid it will be

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 10:29:54 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 03:01:15 amYou're just figuring this out now? I blocked him ages ago, got tired of his incoherent rambling...

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 07:24:56 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 14, 2018, 08:51:55 amWood is often underestimated as an engineering material. Strong in tension and compression, tough, great strength to weight ratio and surprisingly long lived. Up the road from me is Henry VIII's hunting lodge, built of timber in 1543, and still tough enough that visitors can safely have unrestricted access to the interior. By comparison down the road from me aren't concrete tower blocks built in the 1960s, "aren't" because they became so unsafe, so quickly, that they have been demolished. China and Japan have some very old, tall wooden buildings still extant but I'm too ignorant to be able to enumerate any good examples.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 07:36:52 pm
content: Everytime I read the title of this thread I can't help but think:"You will end up mad anyway if you live long enough, just embrace it and consider yourself ahead of the game."

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2018, 11:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 03:01:15 amYou guys will have to go easy on the bonking before you run out of space, if you haven't already.The original Blade Runner is a great movie, but I wouldn't want to live in a dark reality like that, which by your descriptive comment is not too far away.and I'm very familiar with how 'real life' works, and shoe box housing bringing up a young family isn't itIt's not a 'life' when you can't get sufficient sleep because the neighbours want to live in a shoebox complex with their trapped bored kids and pets making a racketIf it was me in OP drummerdimitris shoes, the neighbours would get a good solid helping of cranked up 1980s ROCK and 60s Rat Pack and Betty Hutton helpings in retaliation,as I'm not cruel enough to hit them with torturous metal, rap, trance, Autotuned drivel and other noise, masquerading as 'modern music'Quote from: blueskull on February 14, 2018, 03:01:15 am'Not that bad..'Obviously you haven't done any serious shift work and suffered broken sleep effects,with a gradual decline in health, energy and concentration levelsQuote from: tooki on February 14, 2018, 10:29:54 amYeah, thanks...I'm losing lots of sleep over that decision []

author: f5r5e5d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 01:05:55 am
content: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/looks like worthwhile infothe rec for a suspended ceiling with stiff wire to the offending floor above seems wrong for isolating low frequency sound transmissionI believe there are various sound isolating suspension deviceswith 30 cm to work with and 25 m^2 you might be able to build a completely separate wood joist/box beam ceiling not connected at all to the floor above, just attached to your wallsthen the Drywall Furring Channel + Resilient Soundproofing Clips supporting the multi layer drywall and Green Glue damping material

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 01:30:05 am
content: Whatever the sound proofing additions are, better make sure the stuff is fire resistantand have a plan in place and rehearsed to get the hell out of shoebox hell if it goes up, as they sometimes doTip for shoeboxers that think they already have enough to think about:Have a bright colouredeasy to findsuitcase always at the ready with long fire resistant ropes, gloves, breathing masks, basic SHTF tools and anything else you can think of to fit inYou may never use it, but if the day ever comes and the rescue crews can't make it to you, you have a choice to make a go of it,or sit there praying for salvation and roast, or jump to your perilDon't rule out earthquakes and floods either, be prepared if you're going to reside in condensed stacked developer and investard profit boxesThere's a reason developers and investards live in spacious mansions on huge allotments,ask them if they would ever downsize to one of their shoeboxes

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 01:27:50 pm
content: Electro Detective...Are your really Sheldon Cooper in disguise?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 02:54:29 pm
content: Whatever you do, think it through, and make sure its not unsafe to do. In particular, fully investigate any soundproofing material you use for fire safety and potential ill effects to health. That said, sound proofing material can be had that is quite effective at deadening sound. The point made earlier about much of the sound actually being conducted through walls is important, though. That may be the case. Also, I would ask them if they would get a thin rubber pad to go beneath their carpets. (they do have them, hopefully?)Good luck!It really sucks moving. Make the best of the situation if you possibly can.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 09:06:08 pm
content: You can throw a lot of good cash at soundproofing, and achieve little success on low frequency impulse thumping,which little ankle biters specialize in producing consistentlyWhich now brings us to the last resort of which powerful sleeping drugs to pop...assuming OP hasn't booked a furniture moving truck yet

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2018, 09:17:36 pm
content: I want to know what the results were?I had neighbor troubles and what I decided was - if I go over and knock on their door when they bug me and be reasonable they will be more respectful and try to be reasonable in return. It worked for me so far. Now that they know I will go over there.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 11:09:30 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 05, 2018, 08:46:38 amWhen I was a kid I wanted t invent a lawn mower with speakers that produce the noise of it 180' out of phase. Assuming you have a lawn mower that made a single frequency sinewave this would not work? It would be double loud or silent as you moved around? I remember hooking up speakers in reverse and it made strange effects lowing the sound quality when they were placed in opposite corners not silence.You need to get another set of neighbors with children 180's out of phase with the problem kids problem solved.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2018, 11:03:08 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on March 11, 2018, 11:09:30 amVolvo did just that in some cars, like the V50 with 5-cylinder engine! (Maybe they still do, and maybe other brands do, too. I dunno.)