HP3458A on eBay - feasible DIY project? [NO GO] - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:06:51 am
content: I found this listing on eBay with a starting bid of $1850US:http://www.ebay.com/itm/302226785813?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITThe vendor has replied to only some of my questions:Quote"Here are the notes on the unit."Significant damage on internal components on multiple boards. Missing A2 board. Missing components on multiple boards."I hope this answers your questions.QuoteSounds like a challenging project. Any comments from members?enut11

author: CalMachine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:16:40 am
content: Sounds like a fantastic challenge! Good to hear that this vendor is answering questions.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:24:32 am
content: That seller fixes stuff if they can as far as I know. So if they sell it as parts I'd assume you're in for an expensive repair. I assume it has been assembled from bad boards.At the pricing they want I'd run, not walk away.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 06:46:11 am
content: I would say no. If it's missing internal parts, then it's likely been used as inventory to repair other units.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 06:52:35 am
content: Considering the A2(AC) board is at least missing, that will most likely be pricy.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 08:06:09 am
content: It's from the same unlucky D4910 seller, btw.I'm safe with my meters, thank you.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 08:15:07 am
content: $1850, missing a board, parts harvested off of other boards, what are they smoking? I wouldn't pay $100 for that unless I was positive that it had the part(s) I needed to fix another one.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 08:18:05 am
content: Ugh - Why show the beautiful exterior and provide the specifications and write "untested" when clearly it is Broken/For Parts/Caveat Emptor.Just 1 disclaimer and then lipstick on the pig - does not make it right.Why not provide a full picture of the device showing also the busted components inside and show the place where the missing board should be etc. (showing the case intact is also important to show what the auction does include).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 08:33:33 am
content: Quote from: Assafl on February 19, 2017, 08:18:05 amBecause then it would be obvious that it's a basket case, stripped of all the most valuable parts and there would be little hope of a sucker buying it.

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 09:08:13 am
content: An A2 board used costs you about 1k USD (way more new). Then, if you are luck you can repair all boards (which I strongly doubt). If you need another board, the used price is someweher between a few hundred to 1k, usually, so make your math. So best guess is, having repaired and calibrated many 3458A's, you end up at 4k, if you are lucky, or more. Keep in mind, many parts are not obtainable, or expensive, so you in that case may need a new board, unless you have spares somewhere. You should also ask yourself why no internal pictures are available. Obviously, they opened this unit up and could have made them (or make them on your request). This may also be a unit that has been 'complied' from various non working ones. That would even be another level of fun...I have read the D4910 story from this seller on eevblog, and my conclusion as far as they are concerned, is pretty clear.This in no way is repairable economically. You are better off buying a new, test one at this price with CAL.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 09:25:46 am
content: This is what I asked the seller to provide:"I have some questions:1) Does the unit power up? If so, any error messages? Is the display clear?2) Do you know any history of the DMM?3) Do you know if any parts or PCBs have been removed or replaced?4) Would you be willing to remove the top cover and take some internal photos of the DMM?"Response was limited to Q3 as you read above. So no deal for me on this one. Thanks to all for helping me decide.enut11

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 10:17:12 am
content: I still think Q2 is invalid when you entering ebay in the first place. I mean, that's just trying superluck. Only people who use these in metrology keep the history attached to the box. And these people unlikely to be selling parts meter in the first place. Rest of folks, meh, it's just another meter, yes, a good one, but that's about it. When I was looking for first 3458/2002's while ago I saw only few sellers ever with 3458 who actually knew the history (sorta, nobody had multiple calibration reports over the year). Knowing that "meter was in two hands before, and was not repaired/serviced before" is NOT a history for 3458A.So if you really looking for 3458, I'd suggest you to prep 3-4K, lot of brave pills, and look for 3Kish one with self-test passed, ACAL passed, with recent years (2000+). If you catch luck, A3 will be nice and stable, and rest you can troubleshoot if needed. Then you will worry about getting DCV reference and 10K stable resistors to get transfers/calibrations or fork another 1-2-3K for calibration at callab.

author: Pipelie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 10:19:22 am
content: definitely NO!I don't buy a 3458 for parts or repair, unless:1. price is low enough, say around $1k or less;2.internal pictures is provided . ( in most cases, internal pictures is needed, especially when the DMM can't power up );3.unit power up and the display clear.------------------P.S.I bought a 3458a from ebay last year, It reveal a error "ram test 1 high",luckily, after I replaced the NV RAM and a Tantalum Capacitors in ADC board, the unit is back to working condition.

author: mimmus78
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:51:54 pm
content: I would take it if it will drop a digit from price.But only if the digit is the last one.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2017, 05:54:24 pm
content: I would assume that the display is broken and that every expensive/hard to find part inside has either been stripped or swapped with a broken one. Their refusal to provide pictures of the interior pretty well guarantees that.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 03:37:50 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 19, 2017, 08:15:07 amThat's exactly, what I thought!$1850... LOL

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 05:18:03 pm
content: Even with a spare A2 board, Keysight probably wouldn't touch it either if it is missing components. In the end, it would easier and probably cheaper to buy it new.Question : was the description of the missing parts added after it was posted on this forum?

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 05:27:31 pm
content: At least I do not remember having seen that description when the item was initially listed.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 12:32:51 am
content: More info from the 3458A seller:"The unit does power on but displays nothing but one blinking square. We know the unit was last calibrated 10/26/16 but since then appears to have been broken that is all we know if its history. The unit has had board A2 removed, and parts of others others appear damaged. You can see this for yourself in the photos ICs U122-125 are missing and their sockets are burned."Socketed area looks a bit odd. Recent calibration then....?enut11Edit: pictures fixed

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 12:55:17 am
content: Holy crap. I've never even seen IC sockets burn like that, is there something under them that could get hot? It's not even centered under the die.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 02:04:45 am
content: The socket melting is pretty weird. You might want to fix the pictures - they are mostly wasted white space.Those sockets aren't even used unless it has option 001 installed.

author: Pipelie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:22:44 am
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Agilent-HP-3458A-Digital-Multimeter-/112312255138?hash=item1a265502a2:g:ZmwAAOSwWxNYrb49This is might be a better choice.check out the label on front panel.Important NewsAfter more than 30 years of service, Ameritec Corporation has ended the continued manufacture and sale of its product lines.January 25, 2013http://www.ameritec.com/

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:35:30 am
content: And it has been sold, someone paid the asking price of 2K. Maybe I should put one of mine on ebay and see how much someone is willing to pay...

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:54:56 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on February 23, 2017, 08:35:30 amSure, do so.But what else do you want to tell us by your statement....?

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:31:02 am
content: I wondered who buys these things - so I asked a local T&M VAR (that sells both new and used equipment) if they ever see used HP3458A's on the local market and if they calibrate.He said they do quite a bit, and that often the 8.5 digit stuff is snapped up quickly by VPG. Also, their cal lab partner just verifies functionality - it cannot calibrate an 8.5 digit DMM. Keysight Israel sends them to the US.

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 09:59:42 am
content: you mean Vishay prec. g.?

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 02:14:32 pm
content: Yes - Vishay.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: ap on February 23, 2017, 08:54:56 amI didn't buy it if that is what you're thinking.

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:43:44 pm
content: No, I did not assume you bought it, I just thought you maybe believe the buyer's price was to high.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 10:52:18 pm
content: It was more then I would pay for a "parts" unit. Had the seller indicated the power on self tests passed that would be another story.

author: ap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 08:28:32 am
content: Well, it passed power on test without errors as could be seen from the pictures (err light not on), unless the seller did not mention he deleted any error messages (which would be kind of fraud I guess). That said, power on test does not mean much, but you always have that issue with these units, most are only being sold that way. And even if someone does a short test and applies a voltage, then there is e.g. still the issue that the A/D drifts, and others. And such items seem to sell for even more.

author: CalMachine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 12:41:52 pm
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Hewlett-Packard-Multimeter-Model-3458A-/302236376399?hash=item465eb11d4f:g:-IEAAOSwax5Yph8g

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:04:49 pm
content: Quote from: CalMachine on February 27, 2017, 12:41:52 pmCame back like a bad penny

author: Pipelie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: ap on February 24, 2017, 08:28:32 amyes, that the reason, why I don't want to pay more than ?$1000 for 3458 on eBay, even the unit pass self-test. we are usually buy it locally, and test it to make sure the unit don't have A/D drifts problem.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 06:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Pipelie on February 27, 2017, 03:45:33 pmCan't blame you for being careful. What's a typical local market price for a working 3458A?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 11:29:48 pm
content: 3600 euros for a working one seems like a much better deal than $1800 for a basket case. That's still a lot of money, but this is a rather specialized instrument that few have a need for, I would expect they're a niche product produced in very small quantities. Really we are just spoiled by ridiculously cheap mass produced gear that has gotten astonishingly good. I mean look at what a basic 3.5 digit DMM cost in the mid 70s.I've noticed lately more and more stuff on ebay is listed as BIN for top dollar rather than being auctioned off, and much of it sits for months being relisted over and over. Of the stuff that does sell, it is often "offer excepted" and doesn't show what the actual offer was. New people show up wanting to sell something, look at what other people are asking for theirs and post a similar price. The same even spreads to swap meets, I've seen ebay listings printed out to justify the asking price. I don't go to swap meets to pay top dollar for used gear with no warranty or support.

author: Theboel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 09:31:02 am
content: full blow up Calibration cost for 3458A is about 2500USD if I want to buy 3458A then keysight shop in the ebay is the first place I will look at with an assumption they will calibrated a used 3458a before they sell it at they store.last time I see the store I they ask 5000USD ++ compare to 9000USD ++ for brand new one

author: Tony_G
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 07:44:13 pm
content: I picked mine up from a Western Digital factory closing in California and was able to send it off to Keysight in Loveland CO for calibration for around $600.Once they calibrated it, I put it on a 3 year extended warranty for another $600All in all, the folks at Loveland were outstanding.I think they'll even do a no questions asked repair of a unit for around $2800 - Don't know if that covers missing boards though.TonyG

author: Theboel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 01:30:36 am
content: Quote from: Tony_G on February 28, 2017, 07:44:13 pm

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2017, 01:33:09 am
content: It doesn't need to be asked - they require a complete 3458A for the overall service.