1280 x 1024 thermal imaging camera - a snip at £10,000 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 02:20:14 pm
content: There's a new Thales Catherine MP TIC currently for sale on Ebay UK.Not too sure it's suited for electronics use - typical ranges seem to be in the kilometres. Itisapparently ideal for:• Vehicle Gunner or Commander Sights• Mast Mounted Systems• Airborne & Naval Surveillance & Targeting• Border & Site SurveillanceIt sports a humongous and very serious looking lens, weighs almost 8 kilos and incorporates a Stirling cycle rotary cryocooler. More details here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thales-UK-Catherine-MP-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-/331056761564?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN&hash=item4d14854adc

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 02:40:19 pm
content: Even if I got the dough for it, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get that thing to my door step without having my name stapled to watch lists on at least 10 different 3 lettered agencies.

author: cyr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 04:15:58 pm
content: Honestly, that's not something I would have expected to see on ebay considering the regulations around military thermal cameras.A few years ago I was involved in developing a system that interfaced with one of those cameras, or a very similar variant. As I recall there was a lot of paperwork involved simply to allow us access to the camera for a few days.If you have the money, and can live with the bulk and the noise (both from the cooling system, and the black helicopters overhead), the images you will get are very impressive!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 04:34:03 pm
content: Maybe I should do a kickstarter to buy it for a teardown...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 06:50:18 pm
content: The seller has been warned about the status of this camera. Quite simply, he should not have it, and it should not have left the MoD intact. Oooooops!It has likely already been spotted by those with an interest and will probably disappear from view soon

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 07:56:11 pm
content: Seller has pulled the item. He is an official MoD disposal agent and takes things like ITAR very seriously. He is going to have an 'interesting' chat with the MoD Disposals Service Authority tomorrow. Stuff like this happens and it was fortunate the OP listed it here, and so prevented a potentially ugly situation.For those unaware, this is a VERY high performance thermal camera and it came off a Royal Navy Fleet Auxilliary ship. Not for public release !

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:04:01 pm
content: No wonder he rejected my £1000 cash in an envelope 'best offer' then haha!

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:09:43 pm
content: Seller is kosher (have bought from them in the past) but very surprised this slipped through to an ebay listing. Perhaps they thought that if MOD disposals had sent it their way it was OK.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:12:04 pm
content: I would be worried to even own that unit. It shouts MilTechIn the USA it is not unusual for military items to be accidentally sold at disposal auctions, only to be subject to a Government compulsory purchase and recovery order when the mistake is discovered.As Grumpydoc states, the seller is legit and he believed the item to be 'uncontrolled' as that is what the MoD people told him. MajorMistakes happen.Not wanting to ruin any 'Thermal camera Fan's' evening, but the unit will very likely be shredded into tiny pieces in a cleared classified asset destruction facilityVery sad, but necessary.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:25:53 pm
content: QuoteJust a littleFrom the listing:FEATURES AND BENEFITS3rd Generation Long Wave Staring Array: best in-class range performance and quality.8-10?m: unaffected by battlefield obscurants and solar dazzle.SXGA (1280 x 1024) and standard video formats: provides uninterrupted high definition TI capability and allows retrofit into existing systems.High boresight accuracy: ensures first hit performance for direct, indirect and joint fire targeting.Unique scene based non interruptive high resolution non uniformity correction: enhanced image quality with uninterrupted video ensures no operator distractions during field engagements.Catherine MP is the smallest and lightest megapixel TI available.It doesn't just scream MilTech it screams serious shit aimed at helping beat enemies to a pulp type tech.I suspect just the capabilities are classified.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:30:29 pm
content: Oh those, we sell those at Walmart here. You silly guys and your governments. Next to the rocket lancher, hand grenades and mini-guns.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:32:10 pm
content: And this was fitted on a RN fleet auxiliary ! Imagine what a RN Frigate has fitted these daysThose Somali Pirates had better steer clear of the RNI wonder how much that beast cost when new ? Me thinks megabux !

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 08:56:22 pm
content: I had a similar thing a couple of years ago with a seller of simlilar ex-MOD gear - an ex fighter aircraft laser - got as far as buying and just before shipping someone saw his listing for another one and pointed out it might be dubious - pity - would have made for a good video of me explaining to the MOD on my doorstep that it had been taken apart.....However as long as the seller jumps through the necessary hoops and doesn't export, is there actually anything preventing a sale of this? It has civillian applications in security monitoring

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 09:00:09 pm
content: That TIC is a gorgeous piece of kit though. I just looked at the Thales video. Superb image quality Hmmmmm Shiny..... I like it !

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 09:30:58 pm
content: Such a beast doesn't use micro bolometer sensor, or does it?What kind of sensor does such a nice camera use?

author: mobbarley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 10:04:48 pm
content: Quote from: senso on November 04, 2013, 09:30:58 pmI would guess its a QWIP.http://www.ir-nova.se/qwip/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2013, 10:11:26 pm
content: Cryogenically cooled FPA using some exotic semiconductor array, running at somewhere around -200 Degrees Celcius= low noise and very high sensitivity. GORGEOUS but expensive to maintain. The Stirling cooler should be re-gassed with Helium every 2 years and that operation with a clean and calibration costs around $7500 !I would not be at all surprised if that TIC is actually in need of a re-gas as the Helium leaks past the seals over time. At the moment it would be a very heavy paperweight. Also no controller is supplied. so it may not be possible to fire it up in any case. Guaranteed Thales would not help a buyer to get it running...more likely that they would report the owner to the MoD for asset recovery action.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 07:32:14 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 04, 2013, 08:56:22 pmThose lasers are nice, I used to repair them. Only thing is that the beam is invisible, but happily burns a hole through things. we used to use old photographic paper as a beam finder and alignment tool. It cooks black with each pulse, and you can see the beam dispersal very easily in the char and the fade to white. Difficult to align because you have to assemble the entire optical system more or less ( just less the electronics) to test it, and the alignment adjustments are not accessible without opening it again. Bloody lethal voltages and a massive capacitor used to pump the laser as well. 4kV megger was always useful to test with before you started removing the large masses of silicone potting in the entire HV block. Diodes with 10kV reverse voltage with bodies 10cm long as well.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 07:50:43 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on November 04, 2013, 07:56:11 pm"prevented a potentially ugly situation"? Give me break. Wondering who the spoilsport was that reported him. That's just silly. I mean, yeah, those stupid terrorist only know eBay, and if it's not listed there, they will never get their hands on such stuff. Pfff...Greetings,Chris

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 08:01:54 pm
content: Chris,I advised him of the status of the device. Being a legitimate agent for the MoD they acted on the info immediately. They did their duty.You are commenting on topics in my realm of operation here. This camera is designed to be part of a sophisticated weapons system that many unsavoury persons and countries would love to own. And don't try telling me they can get them on the open market anyway....they can't. The 'ugly' situation would have been the MoD chasing it down when the mistake was discovered, which is likely. Tax payers money wasted on the trace and investigation...no thanks.You are exhibiting your naiveté on this topic, but not wanting to start an argument I am happy to leave you in ignorant bliss

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 08:13:52 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on November 05, 2013, 08:01:54 pmThat simply begs the question. After all, that person got it somewhere. And even was able to put it online. That has exactly nothing to do with being naive, it's simply a matter of fact. And if that person can get hold of it, so can others.If the military boneheads think it is oh-so-important, the only way to make sure that nothing bad comes of it is to destroy that stuff by themselves. But money rules, i guess, thus the incentive to sell that stuff.The only ones (if any) who should have gotten in any kind of ugly situation would be the military themselves, if the unit originated by them, and no one else. And frankly, i don't see anything ugly about that happening.Seriously, what is the problem with common people having access to high-res thermal imaging cameras? I mean, the _real_ problem, beyond some folks think "oh, my precious" and not wanting others to have it? After all, isn't it those common people who funded the development, and later production, of that stuff anyways? Or where did the money come from?I simply hate that lock-away mentality for such stuff. Some dangerous idiots, like real terrorists, will be able to get that stuff anyways, so it can't really be because of that purported risk. And after all, we are not talking about nuclear warheads here.Greetings,Chris

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 09:15:45 pm
content: Quote from: mamalala on November 05, 2013, 08:13:52 pmAre you willing to get into serious trouble for this believe? And why do you think others should get into serious trouble for your believe?

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 10:24:21 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on November 05, 2013, 09:15:45 pmUnless "serious trouble" is specified, it is just a meaningless phrase. Example: Waking up each day and going out on the street, are you willing to get into serious trouble for doing so? You could be run over by a car. Some bozo could shoot you. You may see something that upsets you and gives you a heart attack. You may chocke on your morning coffee and die from that.So, what "serious trouble" are you talking about? And no, some unspecified "there could be a bad boy" doesn't count. Crazy folk will go through crazy lengths to get things. Again: As a matter of fact the seller on eBay got this unit, "right from the source", so to say. if he can get it, anyone else can get it.Greetings,Chris