I Need People Like Wuerstchenhund Back! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:34:37 am
content: lifetime inprisonment (ban) is just plain uncivilized. He hasnt done anything near threatening a life. He provided much useful infos about T&E. I want his "banned" tag removed! Now who's with me? for those who dont like him, you can get lost!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:44:21 am
content: Plus 1 !There are few that have graced this forum that had the TE marketplace knowledge he has and sure he wasn't scared of voicing his opinions, it's just some didn't want to hear it. So they bitched and complained to the mods and so finally the squeaky wheel got some grease and we lost his valuable input.Last seen here:forum.allaboutcircuits.com

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:48:55 am
content: Question is, even with the ban lifted, will he willingly to come back ?

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 10:28:31 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 08:34:37 amYou could start a poll.I would also like to see his return.

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 10:31:13 am
content: Now I'm confused. Are you talking about this guy?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=44979His last posts are two years old, last active in January. What happened in meantime?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 11:07:20 am
content: yes thats the guyQuote from: BravoV on November 17, 2019, 08:48:55 amDoesnt matter its different story.. at least we can see some tolerance, courtesy and openess from fellow mods (not sure the right word) and willingness to accept and forgive.. and he should know he got supporters that fought for him here.. hopefully if the ban is lifted someone close will poke him about this.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 11:11:19 am
content: Quote from: Jwalling on November 17, 2019, 10:28:31 amwill it matters? maybe if the mods request it, then it probably should. Afaics the fate of members is based on complaints, not contents. We can have 21 votes to stay and 10 votes to ban. The 10 votes will always win, even say only 5. There is no democracy here..Btw, the procceding and outcome of this thread is irrelevant, we dont have power, but it must vented somewhere.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:34:31 pm
content: I don't even know who he is, but it would not surprise me if he is already back under a different name. He'll never tell you, of course.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:36:53 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 17, 2019, 07:34:31 pmDitto and ditto.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:41:23 pm
content: i havent seen any new member of his quality have you? i got involved in some of the threads he was involved at, a bunch of us are just like hanging lost monkeys about equipments. no one dare to interrupt even the experienced. a man can be recognized by his "fruit". and if you got banned, are you going to sneak in by another name? knowing you are not welcomed? time to move on, this is not the only forum on earth.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 17, 2019, 07:34:31 pmNo way, he would never be able to stop himself from getting into a LeCroy vs. Tektronix foodfight.If he had any self control, he wouldn't have been banned.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 07:53:28 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on November 17, 2019, 07:46:21 pmthere is called temporary, a week, a month, or maybe a year ban sentence, but why a lifetime? both lecroy and tektronix fanboyism should be banned, if anything, not just one side. or why people cant simply ignore him in conflict?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:02:54 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 07:53:28 pmHe was warned, and there was no evidence that he wanted to change, so what would have been the point? Anyway, a permanent ban doesn't mean he can't ever come back ... it just means he has to convince Dave he's changed. Doesn't seem like much to ask.QuoteFanboyism is allowed. Endless bickering and disruption is not (usually).QuoteI had him in my ignore list long before he was banned, but I still noticed how he kept disrupting and derailing otherwise useful threads.But yeah, the ignore list is helpful.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 08:03:28 pm
content: Me too, I would like to give Wuerstchenhund a second chance.I don't like his way of communicating and many times he was unnecessary rude, if not offending.But that guy knew a lot about oscilloscopes and despite I didn't like his conversation style, it was often interesting to read.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 09:09:15 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 17, 2019, 07:36:53 pmNope, not without a different IP or using a proxy server to hide his IP.Mods would pick him up in a flash.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 10:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on November 17, 2019, 07:46:21 pmA snippet from my email to him after he got banned and asked why:"No other user on the forum generates so many consistent reports and has survived this long, we just can't go on with these constant reports.From what I gather (I don't follow many threads) you just don't give up pushing the same opinion over and over in every thread on scopes, disrupting and sidetracking threads you get involved in."I havegreatlyregretted letting banned members back into the forum before, I will not make the same mistake again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 10:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 07:53:28 pmHe was given temporary bans several times but he did not change.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 11:18:48 pm
content: I'm guessing Wuerstchenhundiswasjust LeCroys free open source version of Keysights Daniel Bogdanoff!(Who's a great guy!)

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 11:53:06 pm
content: Sure miss him too, helped me a lot. Still occasionally "talk" in the other worlds. I guess some people just can't help NOT going after the lure :-)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 12:17:33 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on November 17, 2019, 11:18:48 pmNope, wrong.He provides equipment recommendations to EE labs worldwide. AFAIK he has no brand affiliations.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:26:24 am
content: Some people have a distinctive "style", & a new user name doesn't diguise them for long.On a sports page I used to frequent, a high profile, very opinionated, & agressive member (rather like Wuerstchenhund, in fact) abruptly changed his username. (I'm not sure why, he never seemed to have problems with the Moderators).It took a couple of postings before everybody knew who it was!This forum's moderation is far from harsh-- In the sports forum mentioned above, if you didn't agree with the narrative they were trying to push, your posting was likely to simply disappear!On the "Whirlpool" forum, there are some "bad words" which guarantee your post will be deleted.I innocently used "fan boy" once, & bang!------My posting was gone!Also, if you deviate slightly off topic, even correcting someone else who had already strayed & got away with it---bang!Maybe I'm paranoid, but I do feel both of those forums "play favourites"----EEVblog shows no sign of doing so!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:43:35 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 18, 2019, 01:26:24 amThis.I might challenge the phrase "Some people" and suggest it should be "Most people" - but in the case of those who go to the extreme where they get banned (especiallyon the EEVblog) the correct phrase would be: "All such people".A leopard can't change his spots.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:11:43 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 11:11:19 amSurely it would have been because they violated the forum rules repeatedly and not just because they were opinionated or pissed of a select group that complained. But I don't know.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:23:15 am
content: While it is unfortunate to lose the knowledge, it comes to a point where the difficulty in dealing with a personality exceeds the benefit they offer.Members should also be aware that there can be a LOT of behind-the-scenes effort and communication in dealing with a variety of situations, including lifetime bans, the details of whichwill notbe made public. There are privacy issues that apply which extend into legal territory. This is a key part of the role of Mod and of Admin. Members are NOT entitled to know any such details and any information disclosed by the Mods/Admin will be at their discretion.If you don't like the decision made, then by all means raise the question, but understand that, for a fairly moderated forum (and I include the EEVblog in that category), the original decision will have been made for very good reason.Background: I am a Mod on another forum (not electronics related) - and I have been involved in some extensive discussions and serious matters, the details of which remain confidential.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:33:52 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 11:11:19 amThis is not a democracy. Nobody ever said it was. If you think you can make it one, then you are sadly mistaken.A democracy can be manipulated for the agenda of whoever does the manipulation - and that will usually mean the result will be unfair for anyone who doesn't fit into the agenda.This is Dave's sandbox and if you want to come in and play, then play by his rules. Don't like the rules, then ask nicely and a change may be considered, but if you get a "No" then accept that decision and move on.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:51:14 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:32:57 amAre you Effing kidding me?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:54:53 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:32:57 amHe did not get banned for that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:58:09 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:53:50 amI'd unban a thousand Wuerstchenhund's before I'd unban MJC, comparing them is insane.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 09:56:00 am
content: there goes another 12K poster got the banned xx eyed status...i will fight for him if later i come across a thread with his posts similar quality in assisting newbies/members as Wuerstchenhund has, until then...i got PMed from our T&E friend to make a poll, so i did, let it speaks... not sure what its going to worth. and he also stated...Quotesorry to whoever PMed me this (i'm not going to name him) for quoting his remark in public, imho, i dont need his permission. and to others, this is not a promise, since this comes from a friend/member's of a friend's friend..i will not be held responsible if its untrue... this must be vented somewhere (here)...and btw this forum has got congested like the rest of the forums, and i think the chance for the experts to spot your thread will greatly diminished, whatever... maybe its good for Dave quantity-wise... or maybe i'll just stick to google and hope some place has been dealing with the problem in question...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:16:38 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 17, 2019, 10:45:41 pmMy observation is that several people made a habit out of (succesfully) baiting Wuerstchenhund into endless discussions.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:37:10 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 09:56:00 amHe got a 3 day ban because would not stop after many warnings. Similar situation with Wuerstchenhund IIRC, he simply would not stop spamming and derailing threads with the same stuff over and over again.There has to come a point where this has to be addressed regardless of the persons standing on the forum. We cannot have continued reports about a persons posts derailing threads, month in month out, year in year out, it has to stop.To run a large active on-topic community like this everyone has to be willing to control themselves to at least some extent for the sake of the community. There are unfortunately outliers who cannot do this, some are so blatant that they don't last long at all, and some are incredibly subtle and like to just poke here and there, but do it consistently over years and years.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:38:06 am
content: Quote from: nctnicoSame way I saw it. IMO, his only failing was easily being LURED into taking bait / and some desperate need to have the last word. Sad, but that's life. ymmv :-)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:42:25 am
content: Yeah sometimes people just don't work out for reasonable discussion on forums.I do remember seeing him in some scope discussions, but never got into an argument with him myself. So i don't really care if he returns or not.Tho the "Dr. Lewin Kirchhoff is for the birds" thread having one member storming off was quite amusing. I usually back off sooner from an argument but that tread really kept going and going.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:52:43 am
content: Quote from: digsys on November 18, 2019, 11:38:06 amYep, very likely. Unfortunate that he couldn't help himself, even when warned.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:54:41 am
content: Quote from: Berni on November 18, 2019, 11:42:25 amAh yes, I forget who that was but they went to so much effort with amazing technical details, drawings etc, must have taken countless hours to write and draw it all. Then just deletes all his posts in a rage quit.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 12:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 11:52:43 amYes... in the end it takes two to tango.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 12:12:20 pm
content: This forum has an excellent reputation for being very well moderated to just the right degree. This produces a friendly and helpful environment in which to discuss topics and learn much. I normally “reside” in the thermal imaging sub forum but do venture out into the main forum now and again. I consider this to be a brilliant information sharing and discussion forum thanks to Dave and his moderation team. Long may this continue. In life there are always people who like to argue, pick fights or who have anger management issues. They are still made welcome here and I have seen a lot of tolerance displayed by the membership, combined with gentle moderation where needed. However, just like when at school..... escalations in tensions do occur and some people do not respond to warnings. They need to take a deep breath and realise that life is very short and rather than argue or make trouble they should walk away and use their valuable time wisely. When it comes down to it, this is a discussion forum, it is unlikely to influence the World in any significant way, especially where politics are concerned !Long may the EEVBlog forum remain a very friendly and helpful extended family for its membershipI have certainly been told that it is my extended family in the thermal imaging forum as I spend so much time in thereFraser

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:02:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 11:54:41 amIndeed, i learned quite a bit from that thread about subtle details of what voltage and current really is. Its a lot more complex than one would think at first. But that sort of behavior was not necessary to discuss this, a lot of other forum members came into the thread with there own explanations of the experiment and ended up working constructively with others to come to a sensible conclusion rather than riding that high horse all trough the thread, calling anyone stupid who happened to disagree with them in any way.(Heck at some points they even seamed to even disagree with things they themselves said a few posts back)Rage deleting your own posts in the end is the stupidest thing to do since it destroys your own hard work and benefits nobody (Tho other peoples quotes still hold most of his content). At least discussions here tend to be more civilized than lot of Youtube comments.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:38:17 pm
content: The ignore feature is what I use in extreme cases, and works well IMHO. I've only ever used it three times, and two of those individuals were subsequently banned. I've never made a complaint about anyone on the forum, ignoring is easier, it's just one click!Regardng MJC, initially I mistakenly gave him the benefit of the doubt, assuming he was operating in good faith, and took the middle ground. As time went on, it became clear to me that there was a recurring theme of manufactured victimhood by proxy going on. As far as I know he's not Japanese, but he was interested in Japanese culture, possibly from his retro gaming interest. I don't think he was a student either, as far as I know he worked in Portsmouth. His behaviour for several weeks around and after his banning on here (e.g., demanding every one of his posts, and references to those posts, be deleted) and on other platforms (e.g., Wikipedia vandalism) didn't really help his cause. I don't think I've ever witnessed an individual on any other forum acting in such bad faith. From the efforts he would take to cover his tracks, I'd also strongly suggest he had a from of paranoia too. He was a very troubled individual.Wuerstchenhund just came over to me as being unnecessarily condescending, on many occasions he berated people in an elitist way. While he does have a great deal of experience, being a second rate communicator like that rubs people up the wrong way. When he added a political signature I put him on my ignore list, it's hard to have a conversation with someone when unsolicited you're reminded of their political views at the end of every sentence. So I put him in my ignore list. As an aside, I found his way of communicating changes completely when he wants something from you though. Maybe he just lacks self awareness, I don't know, but he did rub me up the wrong way, and I suspect he did others too.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 05:56:52 pm
content: In the end, it's Dave's site to run as he wishes. He has posted some basic rules to follow. If the admins are having to spend a lot of resources on a repeat offender, I can't blame them for the outcome.If Wuerstchenhund wanted to rejoin, he should just reach out to Dave, man up, apologize and get on with it. That's really up to them to sort out.I would welcome them back as I did before.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 09:56:00 amYes that was me and no need to be sorry as you didn't identify who messaged you.Anyways a small update and request from Wuerstchenhund.......Please relay my gratitude to all the people who defended me in this and other threads, which is truly moving.And his request to Dave if it can be arranged:It would be great if I could at least get access to the messaging system, which would allow people to PM me if they wanted to.Further snippets from our infrequent but enjoyable emails:Wow, really? I’m surprised, wouldn’t have thought two years on anyone still cared.Now the question isn’t really if I would come back (which I probably would, I don’t hold a grudge against Dave). The question is if it makes much sense. In this thread, someone speculates that there must have been more to my ban than people see. Well, there isn’t. Two or three people complained and found an open ear with Simon, with who I had a few run-ins. That’s pretty much it. No specific reason was given or specific event which was a problem was named, all I was told was “there have been too many complaints”. So even if the ban was lifted and I came back then the same three (I believe) people would complain, and the circle would start anew.Which is fair enough, after all EEV is Dave’s turf, and the forum, while for members being a place to exchange information, is mostly a marketing tool for Dave. So it’s not surprising that he’ll just avoid anything which could spell trouble in paradise.The other thing is that even if I came back then I would spend a lot less time there than I used to...................Having said that, while the fact I can no longer post on the forum didn’t bother me much I did lose contact with a lot of great people when I could no longer access my messages. So if my account could be unblocked at least for the messages then this would be great.

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:25:06 pm
content: I do miss his posts but haven't been around long enough to get tired of them. (I signed-up around the time he left.)OK, even if he is a LeCroy sales representative and goes on about the name a lot, aren't they (some of) the best DSO's around?If he did come back I doubt he would and wish he wouldn't change.I hope I'm not looking to get banned by saying this...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: shakalnokturn on November 18, 2019, 06:25:06 pmNope, fan boy maybe as LeCroy make some powerful tools.Again, Wuerstchenhund is a TE adviser and has no brand affiliations.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:04:40 pm
content: Admittedly, LeCroy gear is pretty damn nice.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on November 18, 2019, 04:38:17 pmAnyone who is rude to me or to someone else who did nothing to deserve it goes into my ignore list. It makes reading the forum much more pleasant.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 17, 2019, 09:09:15 pmAhah, oh really?Most Internet accesses these days still don't have fixed IPs. Mine certainly doesn't. The IP gets recycled if I disconnect, and I'll get a new one upon reconnecting 99% of the time. It just takes a couple seconds. Fixed IPs are still the exception rather than the rule. So IP bans are basically useless. Everyone that has dealt with really annoying users on forums, IRC or whatever knows the problem. They'll just keep returning and there's not much you can do about it. For the few that would happen to have a fixed IP, they can just use a VPN, use a different connection, etc.OTOH, when the IP is really fixed, there's a lot more probability that this is commercial/public connection of some kind, meaning it has a higher probability of being shared by several/many people. Banning an IP in this case means banning access for everyone using it - in a company, hotel or library for instance. That's not workable either. So I don't buy one bit either way that banning IPs works in real life.Now, as I said, I don't know the guy, and he may have been very easy to recognize. If he indeed never came back - that probably means he had better things to do. Believe me, annoying banned users almost always sneak back, and doing so is usually dead easy.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 08:02:47 pm
content: I appreciate the freedom of information sharing and the lack of artificial rules in this forum very much. There are very few forums that compare.But having that said, it doesn't fit for such a forum to ban a member permanently. A temporary ban with increasing duration (up to a maximum) would fit better with freedom of information sharing. I realize that dealing with such people is a maintenance hazard, but isn't it possible for Dave to get help in moderating? If there were more mods, it would be less burdensome for Dave to have to deal with all of these eccentric people.Please reconsider banning the "permanent ban" and change it to a temporary ban of, lets say up to one month. That way, the forum will benefit from the contribution of these people (which, for some of these people, seems substantial). And maybe ask long time members to help with moderation of these difficult people.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 08:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 18, 2019, 07:15:36 pmI've blocked blocks of IP's on a temporary basis to keep really obnoxious spammers at bay. Chances of accidentally blocking another user is slim in this case. If you had a really abusive and persistent former user, at temporary block on a range wouldn't be that out of order until the cooled down a bit and lost interest. I've seen forums where a banned member will keep coming back and back and back and post real garbage in retaliation.

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 08:54:44 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 02:51:14 am@EEVblog I know my first reaction to child porn would be to delete it on sight. I'd probably then immediately regret not having archived it and turned it over to the proper authorities along with anything I might have from the software to help them track that piece of (this space left intentionally blank) down.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 09:29:33 pm
content: I also am one that liked Wuerst's posts and he changed my mind about LeCrapCroy gearbut I also recall the various warnings publicly mentioned at the time - some fair and some unfair.He sometimes came across arrogant and condescending and loved to split hairs, but the SNR was extremely high. I interacted with him later in the AAC forums and his style was similar, but he hasn't been active there since August.The moderation here is quite moderate - sure, nobody is perfect, but we don't know how much flak the mods take. It's Dave's turf and he does as he pleases, but I think there are places for a permanent ban: the *you know who* dude and his childish acts is an example.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 09:49:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 02:51:14 amIndeed. Blueskull must've been on some weird shit when he wrote that. Anyone seriously contemplating forgiving and unbanning someone who posted child porn is clearly not thinking straight. Banning him from this forum is a very soft punishment. He deserves much worse!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:18:23 pm
content: i think what he meant is that the porn materials is just to gain attention to the other matter that is less interesting to audience. he didnt mean that you should support phedophilism, why people like to think negative? why youtube doesnt ban all those retarded young kids exposing themselves playing gymnastics stretch just to gain likes? think positive?well when there is demand, there will be supply vice versa. when you call, you will get answers, and some are the answers you are not expecting, human mind and creativity are diversified... we have this idiom in our language meaning like "when knuckle meets another knuckle" or when hard object meet another hard object, thing will happens. when arrogant people meet arrogant people, the one who make the report first usually win, this is how the play i usually see everywhere.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:40:08 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 10:18:23 pmI didn't see the posts, but if their content was the nasty subject above, there is nothing positive to think of an adult that posts this type of content anywhere, regardless of the ulterior motives. There is a difference between people posting videos of themselves and an adult posting something from someone else's kid. This is not 8chan.I foresee this thread being locked in 3... 2... 1...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 18, 2019, 07:15:36 pmHe came back dozens of times, and every time we were able to detect him.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 10:18:23 pmThat is NOT why he posted the child porn or flooded the forum with ASCII penises, it had nothing to do with gaining attention to any message or cause, Blueskull it completely wrong.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 10:46:14 pmand banned everytime? how tiresome... i guess he hasnt use VPN or "IP slingshot trick" yet or not bother to do so. so what difference will it make by simply unban the original Wuerstchenhund? we also should be aware of how many thousands time he got it, dont delete/edit his prove of insult (its work right?) etc and so gain less and less sympathy to him.... but my original point in OP is... i'm yet to find a similar substitute/quality to him about some T&E discussion in new members, so i'm a bit sorry and lost for this. some newer multi K posters (including the one who recently got the xx rating) are not much helpfull on some subjects of interest, or maybe we dont have anything in common so we never or seldomly came across in threadsi guestimate mostly newcomers are maybe IoT fanboyism but i maybe wrong (or simply rotten behind)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:09:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 11:05:06 pmHe used different IP's and we were still able to detect and track him.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:15:53 pm
content: "persistent?" detective work!...there must be unannounced time budget allocated for it in behind...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 11:09:43 pmYes you get that when you travel the world as part of your job.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:24:22 pm
content: so the hint maybe on something else, maybe he still use similar username like Wuerstchenhund#100? or maybe dont like to disguise himself on other unrelated name..

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 12:58:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 18, 2019, 11:18:59 pmYou get that when you just disconnect a DSL router from the phone line for 5 minutes, or leave a cable modem for a day. You get a new IP by DHCP.You also have the same IP as hundreds of staff if you go through your corporations proxy server. Useless to identify an individual for the most part.You get a new IP if you use a VPN or ToR, though most of the exit nodes are in shared databases by the big content providers anyway, but at least the IP can't identify an individual.The IP means nothing compared to the tracking cookies and other methods which instantly pinpoint you. You can hide behind all the proxies, VPNs, internet cafes, etc. all you want. But if you are using the same device then you gave the game away.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 01:13:32 am
content: Surely a VM that is used only for that account would be difficult to track? I'm reasonably confident I could get away with it if I put some effort into it. I'm not willing to jeopardize my own access to test the system though. Not to mention I've got better uses for my limited time.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:25:37 am
content: I also liked reading posts from Wuerstchenhund. I feel there were some members who set out to provoke a response from him.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:50:49 am
content: Quote from: blacksheeplogic on November 19, 2019, 03:25:37 amCare to name and shame them ?Suppose we could hunt back................

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 08:16:31 am
content: As someone who has bounced around many a forum over the decades, I watch rules regarding political discussion get introduced and slowly the enforcement gets stepped up. There are some who feel that this moderation is an attack on being able to say whatever they want, whenever they want. However, it's no excuse to keep going on with it when asked not to.The last few years has seen a lot of peeps compelled to say what they want and the justification is that they see, in their eyes, too much contrary opinion to their own and therefore must combat it.The old farts on here are most likely to have certain strong political opinions. The point is I'm not going to be able to convict you that my way is right just as you wont convince me. It is a waste of energy. Life is short.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 09:24:50 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on November 19, 2019, 12:58:31 amhttps://amiunique.org/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 12:40:05 pm
content: Frankly, I’m surprised Wuerstchenhund got banned at all. He was persistent and often blunt*, yes, but nowhere distantly as obnoxious as a TON of other members who are still active now. I am inclined to believe his explanation that it was just a few people “out to get him” and reporting him repeatedly, rather than think that large numbers of members were reporting him.*Not to mention that bluntness is a trait that seems to be celebrated on eevblog, with the typical explanation of “real engineers don’t sugarcoat things”.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 01:11:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 18, 2019, 09:56:00 amIn my experience in sports, it's often the retaliator who gets the yellow/red card. Not necessarily "fair", but it is what it is.Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 10:37:10 amI think there's an element of numbers here. Let's say that everyone's base rate of being off-topic or making a derailing comment is 1 in 500. That means I've made 2-3 derailing comments here (probably a low estimate for me and most others, frankly).Now, a new poster comes along and baits a long-timer, engaged, passionate member of the forum (Wuerstchenhund, blueskull, or others) and those two get into a rhubarb over it.It's one poster's first offense and this long-term thorn in the mods' side has a track record of 25 such "violations" (base rate of 1 in 500 on 12000). "Oh,that f%#*ingguy again? It seems like we're dealing with him several times per year!!"I get why the mods are annoyed.I get why blueskull/Wuerstchenhund is annoyed.I even kind of get why the new poster is annoyed that they're suddenly in this flame war they might genuinely not even realize they triggered. (They might also be expert trolling, of course.)Most of all, I get why the innocent readers of the forum who just want to know where to buy parts/PCBs, improve their capabilities, or how to do projects are annoyed.This is my favorite engineering forum by far. At the substantial risk of sounding like an ass-kisser, I think the current very light moderation guiding hand is very much what is needed here. The moderation here is so light that when it finally trips, it's somewhat jarring. You can't ban-hammer newbs because that chills the growth of the community. You can't have infinite patience for long-timers with zero self-control. I get a lot of value from the diverse perspectives on the forum and sincerely hope that blueskull continues to contribute his perspective once the bans lapses.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 02:07:38 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 19, 2019, 07:50:49 amyou can track from his posts record. iirc last time quickly checking his record, i cant find anything that made him deserve a ban (imho), or to make me less sympathy on him. maybe they got deleted/edited? like "fuck you retard" personal attack posts? i cant find any such posts, so i really wonder what was going on?! people derail threads everytime i guess thats normal, due to their fixed opinion or agenda. but for others, they just cant get what an "ignore list" is all about, or incapable to use. i think because of their own "fixated opinion", anything differing from their view they will consider as an insult, there goes a "report to mod" click. that feature is much more soothing to them rather than simply ignore and let the readers decide. or maybe they have this "grandma" protective nature traits that when they see what they think as a bad guy, they will and have to vent the report to somewhere.i remember to comment on the lack of review/warning/details in a thread from one famous review ee guy in the net and also a member here (just to channel his review videos), oh man he was going like crazy to say i'm smearing his "work". what did he thinking? that he is a perfect guy like God? he simply cannot stand differences or if someone reveals his incapability or lack of technical reviews thereof. even though i still like his reviews, i wont dare to comment on his thread/videos anymore, or maybe my way of saying really ticks him, but i think that guy only like "thank you my dear" and "likes" posts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 02:23:08 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 19, 2019, 02:07:38 pmIIRC both you and he were vying for the title of who was going to get banned first at the time.He was the #2 poster on the forum at the time (behind me) and he got banned because of his shear persistence to disrupt and argue everything.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 02:30:08 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 19, 2019, 02:23:08 pmi think you are referring to different guy (Wuerstchenhund maybe?) where i'm referring to a different guy, he is not yet banned and "far" from it. and very few posts, only to ads his videos here.. as for me, i accepted the fact and trend here, i only ask and reply to relevant matters, there is no point to show/proof cleverness as this forum is filled with many "experts" already. i guess the best thing is to simply shut up, that will make them happy.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:05:15 pm
content: I've seen other banned members make new accounts and rejoin. Is this treated differently per user or offence?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:11:06 pm
content: Do many people genuinely have a problem with people disagreeing with them? - as long as we are civil...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 10:46:14 pmThat was exactly my point in general: that many of the "annoying" type of users would repeatedly come back after getting banned, and that trying to block them based on IP was a lost cause, which you also confirmed. What I additionally meant here, related to my first "comment" (or rather, agreement), was about the fact he may still have come back AFTER you thought you got rid of him for good, and that if he hadn't, that's probably because he eventually had better things to do. They unfortunately are not all like that!Many of those users are easily recognizable while they use the same style, but after getting banned dozens of times, some eventually get tired of trying but won't still give up; so they end up coming back using a completely different style, often being a lot more discrete, just not to feel "defeated". Of course if their new style doesn't annoy anyone, I guess then nobody will really care. They may still occasionally start the annoyance all over again, but with different topics and not often enough to be spotted.Not that it really matters - it's just that I've seen that happen quite a few times on forums, and it was just dealing with the fact that the guy could still be "here", passing unrecognized.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:32:27 pm
content: I got banned once because my short comment was misunderstood.The community saved me.It was a little thing, and now it is gone.If the Admins make a mistake and you explain nicely what happend they will correct themselves.That said, I like how the admin are moderating this forum, thanks for your hard work.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:38:01 pm
content: I know he could be quite blunt at times, but at the same time was a knowledgeable and often heplful person.And everyknow knows how some topics can derail. LeCroy vs Tektronix, Rigol vs Siglent, etc. I think nowadays we tend to confuse strong and strongly worded opinions with offense, which is not a good idea. Debate subject to too many political correctness rules becomes becomes useful.So, I would vote for him to be allowed to come back and, for everyone, to have a healthy diet (Spanish cuisine is awesome) and develop a just a tiny bit thicker skin. All of us would benefit and, within reason, when people are not so eager to feel offended debate can be even fun.Just my two cents.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 03:58:57 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 17, 2019, 07:34:31 pmI think we'd know...

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 04:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on November 19, 2019, 03:11:06 pmAlmost as certain as the sun rising in the East, disagreements online seem to inexorably result in someone calling someone else a poopy-head.I think a possible mechanism is:A set of people strongly hold some opinion.Another set of people hold the opposing position.Another set of people just like getting reactions from people (trolling or demi-trolling).Combine the first and second group in a civil discussion (inevitable) and someone from the third group will sniff it out and join in...

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 04:21:16 pm
content: "The Art Of Trolling" is a real thing: E.g. the thread "Why is the US not Metric".

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 04:25:28 pm
content: I don't quite understand why disagreement is discussed as the bans don't appear to have to do with that. They seem to have been the result of consistently overstepping boundaries and refusing to adjust to corrections.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:53:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 19, 2019, 04:25:28 pmNope, that doesn't apply to the subject of this thread.Here when someone presses Report and gets the attention of the mods they have 3 options, do nothing and explain why, look at the #'s of reports for a member and act in a way they see fit or properly research the posts/threads content as to why it's been reported and make some fair judgement.Trouble is, when members have another in their sights and look for chances to report them the #'s start stacking up against a member irrespective of their posts correctness or accuracy.Experienced members have been shown to be guilty of this underhand behavior too crying WOLF when there wasn't one !Mods don't always show the wisdom of Solomon and unfortunately some valuable members have been banned just trying to defend their position in communications with them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:25:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 19, 2019, 04:25:28 pmIt is not that black and white in every case. In case of Wuerstchenhund part of the blame is also with the people who baited him to get into heated discussions. In the end the mods just get tired of the reports and hit the eject button. Which doesn't seem like an unreasonable action to me but there are no winners.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 17, 2019, 08:34:37 amI dont' know the full story but:If he had his fair share of written warnings before he got banned and chose to ignore them, then....

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:32:39 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:32:57 amIf you're talking about the child porn poster then it'snotIMO. Need I remind you that posting child porn is also illegal? At least in most countries. That hardly compares with someone making making comments that a few overly sensitive people object to.

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 08:06:14 pm
content: Indeed, this forum is pretty well moderated and i like it very much. Its sits very nicely between the offtopic/name-calling-wasteland that is sci.electronics.design (it has its interesting topics/experts though) and such sites like StackOverflow where you have to word everything very carefully.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 08:23:11 pm
content: Forcing people to join some of those other forums should be punishment enough.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 09:27:46 pm
content: I liked to read his posts and learned a lot from them.The little contact I had with him was very pleasant and he was very helpful.I read many aggressive replies from fellow forum users and frequently I write a reply which on a second thought I decide to not post to avoid the usual flame posts - i.e. when I consider giving my opinion on Linux/Windows or what would be the beat configuration for a CAD/CAM workstation...I guess he could not resist replying to certain threads and his dry responses were not appreciated by some. I wish there was more tolerance for an otherwise very knowledgeable person.I vote to have him back!Regards,Vitor

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:00:35 pm
content: I don't know the guy, but if he's ok with a lot of ok members heremaybe give him a go.Everyone/anyone can stuff up emotionally and type up anger management FAILS on a bad hair day, partner walkout, or surprise lab bench toast moment,and or get baited occasionally by professional corpotrolls or disappointed product fan boys that '..can't handle the truth..'fwiw even though I contested blueskull's point blank generalisation jabs at 'westerners',he was on the money most times with everything else, and well, that was blueskull's styleI read he lost his **** recently with the main host, which is unfortunate and regretful, especially seeing as DJ picks up the forum tab everyone uses for free.Also, how can Admin and members be certain 'patriots' come from the country/nation they claim they are from,or their country label is legit?Some could be the usual suspects that stir international trouble, and there's no shortage of them earning an easy pay slip,from their agenda bosses wayyy overdue for mental health evaluations.and fwiw the real trolls that stuff up threads are the BAITERS and shifty corpotrolls, one and the same in many cases (you know who you are)Those lowlifes are a worse breed on forums than any peaved person on a strong worded defensive stance,in most cases an experienced learned useful member, unfamiliar with dealing with online nasties.Admin and Mods, please consider to bring both dudes back,and point them to this thread as a 'must read' condition.If you got this far, thanks for reading

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:09:43 am
content: Bit late to the party, but allow me to add a +1 for his return. That is to say, I understand Dave's reasoning for not considering it (aside from the fact I don't need to understand as all this happens in His Realm) but from the above exchanges it should be clear that:- quite a few people would like him back- from WH's tone of communication, it seems rather unlikely he'll come back guns blazing- two years should do as a time-out?- I'd guess there are enough people around who "know"know him so they can reel him in a bit if needed.But your house, your rules

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:22:45 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 19, 2019, 07:50:49 amDo you feel this will lead us towards a mature, civil, thoughtful, respectful discussion that will have a positive impact on said individuals?On the subject of Kangaroo courts, I do have to ask the question why this thread should be used for naming and shamming. Would it not be best to establish a specific thread where we can all publicly name and shame as individuals please? That way we can establish a few rules at the top of the thread to discourage defensive responses that could otherwise derail the usefulness of such a thread. I'm sure with a few rules in place maturity will prevail and individuals named & shammed will take the feedback as positive and constructive.I also feel perhaps getting rid of moderators and permitting anonymous postings is another way that would prevent butt hurt, as well as retaliatory behavior against the open and honest opinions expressed by individuals - leading to more community orientated posting.Just a few random thoughts.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:36:07 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 20, 2019, 12:21:16 amNope, blueskull has the temporary ban.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 01:45:40 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on November 19, 2019, 09:27:46 pmWell said, I completely agree.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 01:54:45 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 20, 2019, 12:36:07 amSorry you are correct! That will teach me to type prior to coffee. I've removed my out-of-context post.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 02:50:16 am
content: isnt coffee to increase awareness?Caffein is a must for me to keep the sanity in check, nevermind the California Act, it only happens in California, here is no California. otoh beer is a lifetime ban on the desk, even in the house and in this world, that causes all the nastiness we saw everywhere here and in this world. STOP! dont derail this thread with offtopic discussion like beer is ok or some weird porn, you are entitled to be banned (by the rule of derailing a thread?) this is my thread i set what can or cant be done here! WAIT! i read recently on the other (locked) topic (about some discreete current source iirc), that the OP doesnt own a thread, anybody can post anything they want so....there is no really clear cut of what can or cant be done in this land.. at one time, people can bash each other (usually on Linux vs Windows, Python vs C++ thread) and everything is fine, but then when someone enter a thread about like T&E recommendation, you cant object to someone's (fanboyz) opinion nor warn other people about the hidden uglyness of what is recommended, that is considered as derailment... so...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 03:31:45 am
content: Mecha, I think you had too much coffee...

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:21:05 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on November 20, 2019, 01:45:40 amThis is why Usenet is still popular, because it's un-moderated. Sadly Usnet servers are dissapearing. In my day, every ISP had one as a client service.Many people think that Usenet is a "Wild West" and it is, but only those people with lacklustre NewsReaders have to put up with all the billions of troll posts.Decent newsreaders have decent Killfiles and after you killfile someone, you never see them again unless they change nics. A lot of trolls do that for obvious reasons but then the new troll nick is only a button click away from your fillfile.YOU are in charge, no one gets to decide who you can, or can't read, only you.Once your Killfile is set up, your Newsgroup will be as pure as the driven snow, and if it's a bit boring, just let a troll or two out of your killfile.Decent Newsreader examples are "SLRN" (text based) but decent GUI ones for Linux exist such a "Pan", "Gnews" etc. Windows has "Agent" (payware).

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:29:53 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on November 20, 2019, 04:21:05 amin fact we have that here called "ignore list", and now SMF has become more wonderful with "ignore topic" (beside ignore section) but well people still like to stir in the mud by hitting that "report to mod" button, maybe ignoring people is too boring for them.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:30:23 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 19, 2019, 07:25:14 pmI don't know the story but it does sound unreasonable if a few consistently complained about someone and got them run out of town. I've no idea how many different members felt inclined to complain it could have been hundreds. I rather suspect it was fewer than half a dozen.Since I know little of this incident I went back to view some threads but the last post by W were 2017. So I think some recent posts are removed. W seemed very knowledgeable so I can see the OP's point lamenting his loss.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:35:58 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 20, 2019, 04:29:53 amWhich is great, I use the EEVblog "ignore" facility myself, and as a Forth zealot, I'm probably in quite a few myself.Dave has done a sterling job with EEVblog, I know I check here about 10 times a day, more when I'm avoiding work ;-)

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:59:47 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on November 20, 2019, 04:35:58 am(testing ignore facility..)Yo mama so fat, the space station identified her as a new planet.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 05:15:18 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 20, 2019, 04:59:47 am(Ed.Kloonk ignore facility status report)Yeah, well yo mama so fat I heard she got her own ZIP CODE ...

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 05:35:19 am
content: ...New Jersey's a small state...she moves in, she could tip it over.Bonus points if you know what famous HBO show this came from.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 05:56:02 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on November 20, 2019, 05:35:19 amShe told me to kiss her where it smells. So I took her to New Jersey.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:33:58 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on November 20, 2019, 04:21:05 amLOL, only popular with the original inhabitants. When I go back to visit aus.electronics the only people I see are the same few dozen people from 20 years ago still hurling the exact same insults at each other.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:48:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 20, 2019, 08:33:58 amYo mama's so fat...

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 09:31:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 20, 2019, 08:33:58 amYes, the resident bullies/psychopaths, that's happened all over the usenet I think, comp.sys.*, comp.lang.*, etc etc.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:42:11 am
content: Quote from: emece67 on November 20, 2019, 11:26:47 amThe EEVBlog is Dave's party, it is a danged good one, and he does know how to deal with drunken guests!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:47:23 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 20, 2019, 08:48:43 amUse a genuine Rod Speed insult or GTFO!

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:00:08 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 20, 2019, 11:47:23 amThere is aRod Speed emulator!Never heard of him before. I just burned 3 hours of my life.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 19, 2019, 03:17:13 pmThat is exactly how this usually goes and it actually means that people somehow still are able to change their behavior. Venting on a regular basis is not that healthy anyway, so sooner or later people arrive at the discussion culture that a forum actually needs.If i intend to make a snidy comment, then at least it should be on topic and give anyone a chance to correct me or him/herself. It's a lot more interesting of a conversation then, i mean what's the point of exchanging monologues all the time. Especially if they have not even stood the test of time and even little facts can change the whole picture and it was just one point of view in the first place?Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 20, 2019, 04:29:53 amMany people want mods to side or the platform to take a certain stance in an argument. That should be unneccessary in a discussion forum, as it is the job of the participants of a discussion to sort a topic out - in a civil manner of course.I've seen several takes of forums to counter things turning offtopic.One is to mark high activity threads to be excluded from search (you don't want keywords to match page 20 of a 200 page thread and have people answer to those on page 201, starting the already sorted out problem again), recent activity (does not retrigger new responses) and hide them from logged out users.Another is to give users personal space to discuss things there, but also leave moderation there in their responsibility.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on November 20, 2019, 12:00:08 pmI can attest to its accuracy.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 01:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on November 20, 2019, 05:56:02 amOnly around Secaucus.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 01:30:06 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on November 20, 2019, 12:00:08 pmYeah!It's more fun making Microsoft Sam say obscenities, & that is pretty much the bottom of the barrel!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pm
content: Hello everybody,First, I have to say that I am honestly truly moved that, not only, a fellow member (Mechatrommer) was pushing for my ban to be lifted, but also that so many other members joined in and voiced their support. I was sure that, by now, I would mostly be another ex-member no-one can remember of, until two days ago when another fellow member with whom I had occasional email contact has told me about what’s going on.So all I can say is Thank You to everyone who came out for me.After the ban I did occasionally check the T&M section for anything interesting, but less often in more recent times work kept me busy as we moved several large-scale projects away from my current host country to mainland Europe and elsewhere. This meant a lot more travel. I also had to sort out a few ongoing health issues which meant I spend some time in the U.S. for treatment. On top of that I am now working on getting a new startup in the U.S. off the ground, which takes an increasing amount of my time.And the worst part is that I no longer have the space for something like a home lab.All which, unfortunately, means that, now I’m officially ‘un-banned’, I will probably not be able to spend as much time here as I used to. But in any case I’m always available via PM or (for those that know me) email.Now, since I’m back I think it’s a good opportunity to clear some things up once and for all so we can draw a line below it and move onOne question that seems to come up is if I am a representative of LeCroy. The answer is no, I am not affiliated with LeCroy or any T&M brand or any T&M distributor. As Tautech has stated several times, some of my work involves dealing with (i.e. doing market research, selecting/specifying for specific use cases, evaluating, purchasing, maintaining) a large amount of complex test equipment (for example scopes, SAs, RF gens, AWGs, starting from mid-range to super high-end) for a wide range of international clients. While this isn’t my primary job it means I get to see a lot of test gear and how it performs in real-life, and shows me the good, the bad and the ugly (and lots of things normal user won’t see). Pretty much every test equipment related recommendation I made is based on this and prior experience.There were some speculations regarding the things that lead to my ban(s) suggesting that there were things “happening in the dark” or posts might have been deleted so no-one except the mods can know what was going on. This is not the case. Everything is there right for everyone to see, nothing has been deleted (and hats’ off to Dave for keeping it!) so everyone who wants can read and make up their own mind. No secrets.Now, people who know me know that I’m a straight shooter. Of course I also fully appreciate that this community consists of a wide range of cultures, many of which have a different understanding of what is “good behaviour” and what is considered offending, and that this can easily result in some kind of conflict. However, if anyone feels offended by me then the grown-up thing would be to tell me directly, either in the thread or a PM, instead of wasting the time of the mods who should, really, only have to deal with really serious issues which members can’t resolve amongst themselves (like for example that kiddyporn thing).Now that that’s dealt with, let’s move on to the real important question: Why the hell is the U.S. not metric?WH

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 03:56:32 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmOh, man, that's the worst TEA cop-out I've ever seen.TEA finds a way!Glad you're back, always enjoyed reading your old posts that came up in search results, but I think the original drama that led to your enforced gardening leave was before I became active.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:01:49 pm
content: Welcome backWuerstchenhund.As a new member, registered this year I must say that you were an anonymous user for me. But after searching and reading some of your posts, I must say that this forum only have to win with your return.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:21:41 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmWelcome back (even if I don't know you), and, just judging from the post above, you sound like a reasonable person. But, even though everything is supposed to still be there to make up my own mind, I'll admit I won't read. I'm just not interested. I'll see what happens next.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmAhaha, don't start though!

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmIn that case there is no room for you here. Dave, ban again!Welcome back, and, of course, thanks Dave.QuoteObvious, because of the war against the Spanish Empire in 1898!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 04:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmWelcome back. Not sure how many years its been but the two SSDs are still working fine.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 05:13:19 pm
content: DAVE! here's one for you on your smelly place... (i cant find better picture, please dont misinterpret)to Wuerstchenhund:glad to have you back! but please remember and do appreciate what voters have done in this thread, we've put our membership at stake and we may have fewer life left in order to resurrect you. if next time you get banned again, we may not have enough spell anymore. here is a few rules for you as a suggestion, that i think works for me to dodge ban-foo spell:1) do not insist on your idea, esp on other's people (group) thread that do not welcome different idea. if you object, and the other guy keep objecting again, we back off and shut up, it is enough to state our idea/argument once, backing off doesnt mean losing but let the readers decide, later if they follow the other guy's idea and regret it, they will know who talked the truth who talked bullshit. but in case they are happy, lets know this world is not one color. you may live on a desert and keep saying this world is brown, but the other guy on the other side, live in greenish area will know you talk bollock. so there is no point to insist on absolution. (i'm not sure if i talk right, this maybe super broken english, my caffein dosage cannot fight my lack of sleep now pushing for thousands of photo print to be delivered quickly)2) learn to recognize fanboys, and please know, fighting these kind of guys is futile. keep in mind, as a wise man once said... i can debate with a wiseman and win, but i will lose debating with a fool. (as you already experienced for these 2 years).3) its better only to engage with topic of interest, if you like Lecroy, only go to Lecroy discussion. you may drop your bomb once or two in Tek thread and run, but thats it. you cant be a persistent one man super hero there, it just simply pointless and you may trapped by bait from troll feeder (as you have experienced)there probably some more advice but my lack of caffein dosage may make me to talk further nonsense, so i just stop here i hope you get the idea, esp the risk we faced confronting master of the dungeon keeper here. now go to those LeCroy and Anritsu thread that you dropped your shit on many years ago, we need you there to give your latest view... cheers.to Dave, you got my kiss on the smelly place

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 06:22:45 pm
content: Welcome back WH.I immediately recognised you by your AvatarThis thread caught my attention and I am pleased that your ban has been lifted. I am also pleased that the whole matter of banning and people “taking offence” at posts has been raised for discussion.Thank you Dave for being such an engaged ‘Overlord’ of your forumFraser

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 06:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmWelcome back, Wuerst!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 06:33:56 pm
content: I wonder if Kiriakos will be allowed to return ? He has been banished from this great forum for a long time now and I never really knew what lead to his banning. He got banned from other technical forums as wellIn such cases I tend to be concerned that the perpetrator is undergoing some form of personal crisis unknown to us here on the forum. It is just my caring nature I suppose. Common issues that cause unusual behaviour on forums include personal loss, divorce, illness and mental stress caused by home of work related issues. I think sometimes these people need some understanding and help rather than punishment, but Dave does need to maintain the forums civility and quality.I am not, for a moment, suggesting these comments apply to WH but they are just a general observation.My best wishes to allFraser

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 07:04:05 pm
content: yes i remember him, he is a funny guy, but its just that. the reason i think is common, ie unaccustomed to defeat. i think WH has this as well, but the quality (helpfulness) of his reviews resulted this thread. WH maybe not good at confronting people, but i think we need him on his (professional) point of views and T&E reviews. at least he provided some facts or infos in his counter argument, not like one of the famous youtuber i mentioned earlier, bugger. there are also few sharp people here (not banned) who were very helpful to me, but i guess they decided to be less and less active, or maybe we go or i usually asked in different route, or just because they missed it, new topics now become unmanageably congested, not like the old days, now i usually just quick browse every page, anything that caught my eyes will be just by chance, or if i'm super busy like today, i simply "mark all as read" without even clicking on them to open. i'd rather use search function or google if i want to know about something. maybe a good thing for me and i will annoy less and less people.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 07:24:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on November 20, 2019, 06:22:45 pmHere, here !QuoteThis we certainly shouldn't overlook and Dave's willingness to let this thread take its course and give him some accurate feedback to act (or not) on.QuoteThat we can even do this here is something special and the admin and mods even listen.Still, we have sadly lost some good contributors over the years as a result of butting heads against Mods even in private !While I quite understand if you should challenge them publicly you might get what you deserve but in private ?While no doubt moderation soaks a good bit of the mods time it is somewhat sad to see rushed decisions on the future of members when a short analysis of their contributions might show them in a better light than what may have had them bought to a moderators attention.

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 07:53:20 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmIs it too late to change my vote?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:07:51 pm
content: Welcome back Wuerstchenhund! I still occasionally refer back to your posts for information regarding the LeCroy scopes. I hope you'll continue to post information about them.For those of those that claim that there is some kind of Tektronix vs LeCroy cat fight going on let me just say this: I grew up using Tektronix scopes and they were my preferred brand by far. But the first time that I used a leCroy, my TE world changed! They open up a whole new world as far as being able to getusablemeasurements with a scope!

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:11:41 pm
content: WH is back! Time for a Prosecco!

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmYou have been missed, welcome back!

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:48:20 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmYour input has always been valuable (to me, at least!).Welcome back,-George

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:52:36 pm
content: Is it me or am I seeing more previously banned members posting again? I do hope this turns out to be working out.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 08:57:47 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 20, 2019, 08:52:36 pmIt's not a bug, it's a feature! :-P-George

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 10:00:21 pm
content: A Hellene,That brought back memories for me of 2002 when I bought a new car.......The last time I heard that statement, it was from Audi regarding bugs in my Audi TT softwareThe TT had some very strange ‘habits’ like lowering its windows whilst parked and locked or demanding a service every 3 months after only 500 miles use !

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 10:09:03 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhundwb Kotter ... errrrr ...

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 10:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on November 20, 2019, 10:00:21 pmI am sorry to hear of the troubles Audi might have given to you or to any other of their customers...I guess that Audi did not attach this emoticon above (the :-P one) to that statement of theirs... :-)-GeorgeEdit: Message format restored. Deleting previous message with the strange format.Sorry for that...

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:04:15 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on November 20, 2019, 10:09:03 pmOhh! Ohh!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmI wasn't one of the ones who came out.Not that there's anything wrong with that.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 20, 2019, 08:52:36 pmI await, with bated breath, the return ofBored at Work&Uncle Vernon.Or, maybe,Keef Wivaneff

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:28:22 pm
content: Kirios was a lively character.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 11:38:05 pm
content: Welcome back Wuerstchenhund.I for one have much valued your contributions in the past and look forward to more to come.Thanks Mods.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 12:30:20 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on November 20, 2019, 03:40:52 pmQuoteOr simply ignoring the post is always a good first option.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 12:47:53 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 20, 2019, 11:25:27 pmdude. if you want to talk about the most bluntest, boldest guy in eevblog, this is the name, nobody can beat him. its always entertaining even if he is trying to bash me.. but iirc he is not banned, he just left. maybe to "Not bored at work anymore"

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 02:54:44 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 20, 2019, 11:25:27 pmMan, I lost count of how many brawls these two got themselves into (one example).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 06:59:04 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 21, 2019, 02:54:44 amThat's a brawl?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:22:26 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 21, 2019, 12:47:53 amWhen I think back to the # of times he and Dave bashed heads together and then blueskull gets banned for defending his motherland.I know whom I'd rather have on EEVblog.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:30:07 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 07:22:26 amBlueskull got temporarily banned because the refused to stop posted political stuff when asked, multiple times.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:47:43 am
content: Welcome back!

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 02:06:47 pm
content: Late to the party, but welcome back Wuerstchenhund!I always find your posts interesting and educating, and was really sad to see you banned.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 02:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 21, 2019, 12:47:53 amThe boldest guy? He was a loser and whiner all way long starting from his user name.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 03:18:38 pm
content: you try to penetrate his thick skin and you'll know its a lost combat, i only watched and i knew it, i dont have to try... btw the vote is currently at (48%, 13%, 39%) (Y, N, O) total voters = 100, just after the proceeding concluded. should i close? or should i keep it open? i think i would like to keep it open in case any late comers would like to change the figure.and i think its worth to mention that there is a bit (or more?) of a democracy here (when you voice it) so, kudos to dave.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:29:41 pm
content: It might be interesting to keep it open and to see if Wuerstchenhund's opinion rating increases or declines over the next month or so.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 21, 2019, 03:18:38 pmI think it's a mistake to conclude that this was a democratic process.I rather conclude that it was a grassroots or community-led petition process, which Dave responded in agreement with, but I don't remotely think of it as democratic per-se.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:51:51 pm
content: This isn't a democracy, Dave is the BDFL here!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 06:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 21, 2019, 09:30:07 amYes, of that I'm well aware.Still, can you blame him for wanting to defend his motherland against the ongoing snide xenophobic comments here about China ? Are all other nations squeaky clean of faults and internal policies ? No, history proves this.It seems like just yesterday when we rubbished all that the Japanese once made yet look at the quality products they produce today. Jap crap was the saying of the day like the wung hung lo that you so often use and neither should be acceptable on an engineering forum.Like you I well see how politics (and xenophobia) makes an absolute mess of the forum and recent events (blueskull and others) clearly show this but let's take note of who throws the first stone.I see more and more of this here so I'm now reporting the first signs of xenophobia in posts.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 06:56:47 pmSo. You're now the self appointedPolitical Monitorof this forum?The many, many threads on this forum and indeed all over the internet that show Chinese made counterfeit parts and poorly designed and built Chinese products prove that the distain for Chinese products isn't just xenophobia.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:29:14 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on November 21, 2019, 07:16:07 pmYou’re apparently too young to know of all the substandard products the Japanese once made.Dave doesn’t want politics discussed here so to stamp on it we all need show some restraint, therefore wouldn’t be wiser to discuss brand rather than country of origin ?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:34:53 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 07:29:14 pmThis wouldn't have anything to do with the Chinese products you distribute? Besides, we have enough senseless brand wars going on as it is.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:41:25 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2019, 07:34:53 pmNot at all ! If anything it gives me a greater awareness of false prejudices.Once I only bought British vehicles and now I wouldn’t touch one with a barge pole !

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:45:55 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 07:41:25 pmWhat a xenophobic thing to say. Talking nations instead of brands. Reported!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 07:55:20 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2019, 07:45:55 pmReport this too, after a couple of Aussie cars, no more of them for me either !Then my current Jap one has issues too so they mightn't get a further $ out of me either !Did I one generalize that all of their countries of origin make nothing but rubbish ? Nope.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 08:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 07:55:20 pmThat's pretty much exactly what you're doing when you say no more Britsh vehicles. If you judged each manufacturer or vehicle on its own merits them being British wouldn't be a factor. We can't do it to Chinese products as that's xenophobic but doing it to British products is fine.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 08:35:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2019, 08:03:15 pmYou are both wrong. Its the German cars which are the crap ones.Welcoming Wuerstchenhund back

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: hendorog on November 21, 2019, 08:35:46 pmXenophobe!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 10:46:36 pm
content: Frustrated 'what car to buy.." members may wanna get out more on Youtube, and watch Scotty Kilmer's car channelwww.youtube.com/user/scottykilmer/videos?disable_polymer=1

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 11:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 21, 2019, 06:56:47 pmI and perhaps the vast majority of forum members may prefer to not see China bashing quite so prevalent. The culture of the forum has been established to tolerate it. As long as terms like "Wun Hung Lo" are so widely used on the forum and significantly by Dave you have to question the value in making such reports.I don't know just why certain members seem to fall foul of something so widespread but I think it might be when it becomes too obvious it triggers an overtly strong reaction (banning) because it is easier than working to change the culture on this forum.But as long as so many such posts are made by relatively few forum members you'd probably better get used to it. A little while back I looked at the "Gender Politics" thread that fades in and out of prominence every so often and although I don't recall the exact stats I found 5 participants made over 50% of the posts. Dave being the biggest by far. Now Dave claims it is a joke thread deriding the concept of gender politics. And maybe he genuinely believes that. But it is quite apparent others don't quite get it. Dave sets the tone by his behavior so complaining to him seems a bit pointless.The best thing to do is put the thread with such posts on your ignore list. Pretty soon the rest of the sharks will gather and for a short time the beaches are safe away from the frenzy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 11:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2019, 08:03:15 pmSee how generalizing any particular country's products are substandard upsets us !

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 12:03:02 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on November 21, 2019, 11:48:13 pmIf less than flattering comments were made about all other country's we surely wouldn't be having this discussion.QuoteAnd yet it should change otherwise we'll just rinse and repeat recent events ad nauseam.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 04:39:29 am
content: i think when we talk about things like wung hung lo, or china cheap crap, we should be aware that we will probably insult our chinese fellows. so trying to defend their country will be the typical act, please do give some tolerance.. the worst i heard is "crap products" made by "Asia"do they have a clue how big Asia is? and multi culture they are? sometime they are bashing among themselves anyway.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 06:43:13 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 21, 2019, 07:45:55 pmThe point is that legally the product needs to meet its described product features and legal requirements, otherwise it would be a simple case of fraud or a case for consumer protection, customs and sorts. Buying with the expectation that unspecified features exist, overestimating the price/performance ratio and maybe lack of customer support are however partially a problem of the buyer (fitness for purpose is kind of a legal expectation...).You can buy that sort of "crap" made locally too, often it is just called a scam here or comes in the form of "scandals", when tax dollars are wasted and such. In my opinion this is really not a case of country of origin, if greed or the usual machiavellism is the underlying cause you can find that everywhere. Some describe their advantage as smart optimization, but when it turns out to be bad decision-making they are nowhere to be found.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 07:23:04 am
content: China is perfectly capable of making high quality products.Its just that China found its niche in making very low cost products in massive volumes. The only way these products can be made for such a incredibly low price is cutting a few corners here and there, hence the quality suffers. They make a lot of money with cheap crap so they keep making it.This does not mean they are not capable of quality. If you enforce your companies quality metrics on the Chinese manufacturer they will give you the quality you want, but it will no longer be for the bargin low price. If you want quality you have to pay for it.At work we use a lot of Chinese sourced parts, like displays, glass, cables, connectors, antennas, cases...etc and its all about sampling and testing the parts to make sure they are good, if not ask them to get you something better or just leave them and try a different vendor. Just don't go for the cheapest bottom of the barrel stuff and its just fine.Tho that being said Chinese test equipment is...eeeh....not quite there. Yes it does often offer pretty good bang per buck due to how cheep it is, and the physical construction is usually pretty good. But the firmware is where they usually fail. Confusing menus, nonsense features, weird UI choices, bugs, crashes, rarely updated, updates that fix one thing but break another etc... Its not that bad with the big popular brands like Rigol, Siglent...etc but some are horrible.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 07:53:08 am
content: Come on guys, wasn't this thread about getting a banned but very useful user back? Now that he is back this thread is now going the route of all other threads that silently turn into political bashing, and China discussion...Don't he have enough threads talking about that? One more is not going to change what had been said in the others. Shouldn't you guys refrain or you want this one to be closed in the future?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 08:03:55 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on November 22, 2019, 07:53:08 amHe was not a useful user, he was a pain in the backside that disliked me for dealing with him more than fairly despite constant transgressions. I don't object if he has returned and behaves but accusing me behind my back of going crazy like I am some despotic nutter "we are all forced to live under" is not nice!As we have once again started talking about china I have locked the thread - hopefully I will not be accused of going crazy and overboard.......