Upcoming Rigol DSG815/830 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 04:37:19 pm
content: Just received this email. Although I'm fairly critical of Rigol these days, I could use a mediacore signal gen if it's priced right. Looks like more info next week.The DSG800 Delivers:9kHz - 3GHz Output FrequencyMax Output +20dBmStandard ,2ppm Clock (opt 5ppb available)AM/FM/?M ModulationOptional Pulse Modulation/Pulse Train Generator

author: thewyliestcoyote
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 05:50:26 pm
content: I just received the same email. I am very interested but it is a shame there is not a 6 GHz option. That is a maybe a deal killer for me.I am going to hold my breath until they give more specs.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 07:44:04 pm
content: More details are up on Rigol UK's web site:http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DSG815-RF-Signal-Generator-p/dsg815.htmLooks like Rigol is going for a US$2000 price point.Edit: The link to the DSG800 series, including DSG830http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/category-s/2031.htm

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 08:25:03 pm
content: Mmmm, yup, with datasheet:http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/v/pdf/DSG800_Datasheet.pdf

author: MisterBiscuit
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 02:41:54 pm
content: Is it me or does this look like it might be an upgraded version of the DSA800's tracking gen in a box?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 03:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on September 30, 2015, 04:37:19 pmWhy not go for a second hand Agilent ESG or R&S SME/SMIQ instead? There are many around so prices are pretty low, and they all offer better specs.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 05:28:17 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on October 01, 2015, 03:02:22 pmI was hoping for something half decent, but in a small form factor,

author: TomThomas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 06:24:35 pm
content: Quote from: thewyliestcoyote on September 30, 2015, 05:50:26 pmIf you need 6GHz there is also a DSG3000 which offers 3 or 6GHzI saw both gens at the EuMW in Paris last month.The DSG800 has the same chassis as the DG1000Z.DSG815 - 1880€ plus VATDSG830 - 3380€ plus VATofficial specs are herehttp://www.meilhaus.de/fileadmin/upload/pdf/Datasheets_english/Rigol/Rigol_DSG800.pdf

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 06:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on October 01, 2015, 05:28:17 pmIf you can live with 3GHz and aren't in a hurry then this could be an option:http://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/SM300_dat_en.pdfSmall size, similar specs as the Rigol, and often go for not much money.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 03:45:27 pm
content: Rigol just announced updates to their DSG800 line:- New models with 2.1 and 3.6 GHz max frequency- DSG800A models with IQ modulationhttps://www.rigolna.com/news/2019/00003509/https://www.rigolna.com/products/rf-signal-generators/dsg800/It would be interesting to see how different they look internally. The DSG815 already had connectors labelled with IQ and IQ CLK, hinting at IQ functionality as a hardware option.https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/23293853985/in/album-72157661062178650/

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 03:48:12 pm
content: Since the discussion on Siglent's counterpart to this generator turned into the direction of evaluating in how far an I/Q modulator "hack" could be possible, and the DSG800A series offers much more functionality than Siglent's products (internal baseband generator), I decided to take a closer look at Dave's teardown photos of the DSG815.It's actually quite amazing how simple the operational principle of this generator is. As always, the difficulty is located in the details. Generally speaking, the DSG800 works in the upper frequency range (probably >300MHz) as a plain PLL VFO with several, switchable frequency dividers and a whole bunch of configurable low pass / band pass filters. The whole unit is full of switching diodes and non-reflective switches (HMC284). The first LO is split into three ranges and is almost a carbon copy of the corresponding section of the DSA815 spectrum analyzer. The reference frequency for the HMC704 PLL is generated by an AD9781 DAC (and not as I initially mistakenly indicated in my scheme, supplied directly from the 10MHz reference oscillator). This way, frequency and phase modulation is possible. The second channel of the DAC is used to generate the LF output signal. The DAC clock is supplied by the highly stable Z-COMM CRO3640B-LF VCO (3.64GHz), controlled by an ADF4106 PLL, divided by eight, hence it's405MHz455MHz (already forgot how to properly divide by two...).To generate lower frequencies, a minicircuits ADE-12MH mixer is used to mix the 1LO output with 910MHz from the aforementioned synthesizer.In my scheme, I used orange for the signal path on the visible side and magenta to approximately show what's going on on the hidden side of the PCB. I may have missed a filter or two on the hidden side, but the working principle should be covered failry accurately.It gets obvious that the I/Q add-on board contains more circuitry than just a few ESD ptotection devices and some interconnections, it's got to contain the complete I/Q modulator, and as it seems also considerable circuitry to generate the I/Q baseband signal. So no easy hack, if possible at all...But a possibly more interesting conclusion on the circuitry may be that it should be possible to output much higher frequencies than 1.5GHz since it's possible to route the oscillator signal trough the instrument without passing any frequency divider. Moreover, all the semiconductors used should be able to handle up to approx. 4GHz (I didn't believe that initially before I did the reverse engineering). So we may actually be up to a surprise if we compare this 1.5GHz version to one of the higher-frequency specimen of that model range... Another amazing detail: The PA is a NPTB00004A, capable of >5W at 4GHz!So I'ld say this unit contains a very good hardware and there may actually be a chance for "improvement" of the entry models. What kind of calibration would be necessary afterwards is written on a different page, though...

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 03:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on July 09, 2020, 03:48:12 pmThis usually meansfor everyone andfor me!We definitely need a specimen to do some testing.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 04:02:44 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 09, 2020, 03:56:30 pmYes I know ... Sorry for thatBut I cannot get rid of the impression that you consider it as some kind of sport...

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 06:01:28 pm
content: I dug into the firmware last spring after I bought a DSG815 in a clearance sale. I think 3 GHz (DSG830) is just a software option. There are a lot of inert debug strings in the code that should help with reversing.A few random snippets from my notes:Model code name is DORY.Shortly after boot the firmware checks configuration variables to determine the model. There's also a mystery file (E:\\LqepdclquJ.txt) whose content is checked for certain operations, for example to enter MANAGER and FACTORY modes (IIRC via the :PRIVate:SOFT:MODE SCPI command). I reversed the content of the file by emulating the firmware, but I haven't tried whether the putting it on a USB stick does anything.The SSP SCPI commands may be for communication with the FPGA controlling the RF hardware.RTOS is MQX 3.7 with MFS 3.0.0 and lwIP of unknown version.Compile options for MQX likely were:MQX_CHECK_MEMORY_ALLOCATION_ERRORSMQX_EXIT_ENABLEDMQX_MONITOR_STACKMQX_TD_HAS_STACK_LIMITMQX_USE_COMPONENTSMQX_USE_IDLE_TASKMQX_USE_INTERRUPTSMQX_USE_MEMMQX_USE_UNCACHED_MEMPSP_HAS_DATA_CACHEPSP_HAS_SUPPORT_STRUCTPSP_STACK_ALIGNMENT = 0x1fAttached my notes to extract the firmware binaries from firmware upgrade files.Attached my notes about the mystery file.Attached the full list of SCPI commands extracted from the 00.01.06.00.01 firmware image.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 06:09:47 pm
content: PS: And here my notes about loading extracted firmware binaries with Ghidra and radare2fw-vectors-0x00000000.binARM vector table, loaded to 0x0fw-app-0x40000000.binARMv5t 32bit application code, loaded to 0x40000000Code entry point: 0x4022004cLoading into Ghidra:Create new projectOpen CodeBrowserImport file: fw-vectors, architecture ARMv5/T little endian, location 0, name vectors (don't analyze)Add to program: fw-app, location 0x40000000, name app (ALT-I)Disassemble at 0 (F11)Loading into r2:r2 -a arm -b 32 -m 0x40000000 ./fw-app-0x40000000.bine anal.ignbithints=trueo ./fw-vectors-0x00000000.bin 0x0 rwxPM me if you want a copy of my Ghidra project.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 06:24:26 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 06:01:28 pmChicken, thanks for the files. I've also done a preliminary look and have a FW parser.I'll try to check your conclusions with my notes of Rigol FW.SCPI command list has beenherefor sometime. Did you crosscheck?

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 06:34:43 pm
content: I wasn't aware of that thread. The only difference is :SYSTem:PRESet (620, 0x4016cdd8, :SYSTem:PRESet, Programming Guide) which is missing in your list.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 07:35:56 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on July 09, 2020, 03:48:12 pmDoes anyone have pictures of the IQ board?Another, simpler DIY project would be a 10 MHz OCXO. The edge connector looks easy enough to interface with and I didn't see anything that indicates a license key to enable this option. Again, anyone got pictures of the official OXCO?

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 08:08:11 pm
content: A DIY internal OCXO would surely be a nice project but since the DSG has got an input for an external reference supply, the same or better performance can be achieved by just hooking up an external GPSDO which is inexpensively available or an atomic reference oscillator (also once in a while available at a bargain second hand).

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 08:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 07:35:56 pmDave's HiRes photos arehere.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 08:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 09, 2020, 08:17:08 pmDave’s unit didn’t have the IQ board fitted.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 08:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 08:21:57 pmMy fault.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 06:01:28 pmFW v00.01.06.00.01parsing:Code:Offset CRC32 Type Size Cont Ref1 FTyp Ref200000000 - 55469C59 sys0 00000278 dat0 00000002 DSG8A 00000001 [00000004-00000277] CRC OK00000278 - A8D35F6B bin0 00000210 dat0 00000002 DSG8A 00000001 [0000027C-00000487] CRC OK00000488 - 196CF684 bin0 00047E9C dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0000048C-00048323] CRC OK00048324 - C87E57E1 rbf0 0005E802 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [00048328-000A6B25] CRC OK000A6B28 - 5BB89F1D bin0 00177C90 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [000A6B2C-0021E7B7] CRC OK0021E7B8 - 1E8000CA bin0 000B99FC dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0021E7BC-002D81B3] CRC OK002D81B4 - 0A378E85 sim0 002B7C95 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [002D81B8-0058FE48] CRC OK0058FE4C - ED06206E bin0 00000046 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0058FE50-0058FE91] CRC OK0058FE94 - 8A912D43 bin0 00000045 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0058FE98-0058FED8] CRC OK------------------------- SYSTEM BLOCK --------------------------------------------00000040 - FW Type: DSG8A00000050 - Version(?): 0000000100000054 - # Files: 8Offset Type Addr(?) Size Flags Filename00000058 - 00000278 Index 06100000 00000210 00002800 index.bin [000002B8-00000487]0000009C - 00000488 Setup 06F80000 00047E9C 00100000 DORY_XML.bin [000004C8-00048323]000000E0 - 00048324 Fpga 06900000 0005E802 00080000 vmu.rbf [00048364-000A6B25]00000124 - 000A6B28 Res 06D80000 00177C90 00200000 ResData.bin [000A6B68-0021E7B7]00000168 - 0021E7B8 Fpga 06800000 000B99FC 00100000 dory_wrapper.bin [0021E7F8-002D81B3]000001AC - 002D81B4 DspPro 06200000 002B7C95 00500000 DoryApplication.sim [002D81F4-0058FE48]000001F0 - 0058FE4C FirEra 06B00039 00000046 00000050 FirstErase.bin [0058FE8C-0058FE91] RIGOL00000234 - 0058FE94 ver 06B00022 00000045 00200000 Version.bin [0058FED4-0058FED8] 00.01.06.00.01FW v00.01.07.00.06parsing:Code:Offset CRC32 Type Size Cont Ref1 FTyp Ref200000000 - 09572EBC sys0 00000278 dat0 00000002 DSG8A 00000001 [00000004-00000277] CRC OK00000278 - 1B2487B9 bin0 00000210 dat0 00000002 DSG8A 00000001 [0000027C-00000487] CRC OK00000488 - 140DF4A7 bin0 00049D5E dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0000048C-0004A1E5] CRC OK0004A1E8 - C87E57E1 rbf0 0005E802 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0004A1EC-000A89E9] CRC OK000A89EC - 42A9907B bin0 00176070 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [000A89F0-0021EA5B] CRC OK0021EA5C - 95EABB13 bin0 000B9DD3 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [0021EA60-002D882E] CRC OK002D8830 - 1002AE08 sim0 002B7A11 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [002D8834-00590240] CRC OK00590244 - ED06206E bin0 00000046 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [00590248-00590289] CRC OK0059028C - 1537D2D7 bin0 00000045 dat0 00000001 DSG8A 00000003 [00590290-005902D0] CRC OK------------------------- SYSTEM BLOCK --------------------------------------------00000040 - FW Type: DSG8A00000050 - Version(?): 0000000200000054 - # Files: 8Offset Type Addr(?) Size Flags Filename00000058 - 00000278 Index 06100000 00000210 00002800 index.bin [000002B8-00000487]0000009C - 00000488 Setup 06F80000 00049D5E 00100000 DORY_XML.bin [000004C8-0004A1E5]000000E0 - 0004A1E8 Fpga 06900000 0005E802 00080000 vmu.rbf [0004A228-000A89E9]00000124 - 000A89EC Res 06D80000 00176070 00200000 ResData.bin [000A8A2C-0021EA5B]00000168 - 0021EA5C Fpga 06800000 000B9DD3 00100000 dory_wrapper.bin [0021EA9C-002D882E]000001AC - 002D8830 DspPro 06200000 002B7A11 00500000 DoryApplication.sim [002D8870-00590240]000001F0 - 00590244 FirEra 06B00039 00000046 00000050 FirstErase.bin [00590284-00590289] RIGOL00000234 - 0059028C ver 06B00022 00000045 00200000 Version.bin [005902CC-005902D0] 00.01.07.00.06EDIT: I added a little more detail to make things clearer.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 09, 2020, 09:16:31 pmLooks like I got a different version of the firmware file. For example the size of DoryApplication.sim is 0x2b7be4 in mine.I downloaded version 00.01.06.00.01 in April 2019, though the link in my notes is now broken.The current version available athttps://www.rigolna.com/firmware/is 00.01.07.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:57:10 pm
content: Re IQ modulator: I think the IQ modulator option only became available recently with the release of the newer generation DSG821/836. The release notes for firmware version 00.01.07 dated 2019-09-05 include "Add DSG800A series, A model supports IQ function"I wonder if there is a hardware issue in the DSG815/830 that prevented Rigol from offering of the IQ option for those.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 07:29:31 am
content: I'ld rather think that Rigol simply didn't finish the I/Q add-on board at the time they first released the DSG800 series and had to create some cash flow to compensate for the design expenses of the project. The option to install an add-on I/Q board is clearly present on the early models and shown in Dave's DSG815 teardown, and hardware-wise, there's no indication that it wouldn't be operational.Moreover, there's just a single firmware available for the whole range of instruments. I'ld rather say that after Rigol produced the initial batch of instruments, they quickly realized that the hardware is capable of more than initially anticipated, so they upped the bandwidth to 2.1GHz vs. 3.6GHz (of the 1.5G and 3G models, respectively) and finished the I/Q module and the accompanying firmware extensions. Shame that they don't offer the add-on as a separate option so users of the basic version can later on decide to upgrade to I/Q functionality.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 12:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on July 10, 2020, 07:29:31 amYes but that is also a factor behind my theory.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 01:21:00 pm
content: We can only know for sure after someone posts a detailed set of photos of a DSG800A teardown.With the help ofRigol's spec sheet of the DSG800(A)I've been able to complete myflow schemeof the DSA815 of Dave's teardown (sorry for the "ill" choice of colours, some lables have to be magnified to be deciphered -- maybe I'll draw a block diagram to simplify understanding the signal flow). I added signal frequencies as far as possible.Considering Rigol's preference of Hittite / Analog components, my best bet for the I/Q modulator they used on the add-on board would be theHMC1097. Unfortunately, Hittite's evaluation board for this chip isn't as complete to permit a direct use in the DSG since it requires differential I and Q signals. In order to achieve a good carrier suppression over the whole frequency range, it may also be necessary to adjust the I and Q bias levels depending on the LO frequency. So there probably is an additional look-up table stored soemwhere on Rigol's IQ add-on board. Likely just too much hassle for a DIY solution.But there may be a real chance for a frequency upgrade... Seems like hardware-wise, evereything's already there.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 03:08:38 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on July 10, 2020, 01:21:00 pmNice work!

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 03:58:50 pm
content: OK noticed some other interesting parameters ....001A - PLL PLL :SERVice:SET:BANDwidth:MODE:PLL001B - DETect DET :SERVice:SET:BANDwidth:MODE:DETect001C - MODulation MOD :SERVice:SET:BANDwidth:MODE:MODulation001D - ALC ALC :SERVice:SET:BANDwidth:MODE:ALCThese are ONLY SET commands - so criticalBUT you can set the PLL BANDWITH - really stupid if Rigol has defined model independent of BW setting - possibly can set the 3.6GHz BW here??Problem is there is no equivalent READ command - so we can see what the current setting is set at??

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 10:11:52 pm
content: For those of you who are interested in the DSG800 operational details...I don't guarantee for 100% accuracy but the diagram should be fairly correct.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 09:35:27 am
content: So here are a few remarks on the DSG815 (RF) hardware, looking at theblock diagramI published yesterday:It gets immediately obvious that Rigol's design is for the most part a simple "straight-through" approach. Since the main PLL oscillator covers a frequency range of 1:2 (1.82~3.64GHz), followed up by three by-two frequency dividers, the total frequency range is theoretically 1:16 (227.5MHz~3.64GHz) of which the range of 227.5MHz to 3.6GHz is used in the top-of-the-line model.The lower range of 0~227.5MHz (okay, they start at 9kHz or the like, but for convenience I keep it "0"), the 910MHz signal that's available from the internal reference PLL divided by four, is mixed with the main PLL output divided by four (output range 910~682.5MHz), resulting in the required low frequency band as the difference. It's important to notice that now the control of the main PLL gets mirrored, i.e. all modulation schemes need to be mirrored as well (FM , PM and complex modulations will have to have the side bands reversed).Another result of the straight-through approach is the necessity of a huge amount of filtering. In contrary to a full-range mixer approach with very high frequencies as input signals, say 5GHz fixed reference and 5~8.6GHz VFO to achieve a mixing product of 0~3.6GHz, where the sum and the mixer input signals are far away from the output signal range and the mixing product is fairly clean (if the mixer inputs were...), in this straight-through approach a lot of harmonics are generated due to the stacked dividers. To get this signal clean, a total of ten switchable low pass filters (plus a few that are doubled up) are required.Since the filters can be arranged as distributed element configurations (for the upper end) and conventional passive filters, they are not really expensive. Most of the filter switching is accomplished by PIN diodes (HSMP-389B, now obsolete) which also isn't a driver for cost. The biggest advantage of this approach is that the highest frequency throughout the design is 3.64GHz, which may be just low enough to be able to use impedance-controlled FR4 as PCB material and not having to use more expensive and more difficult to process Rogers hybrid materials.I didn't specifically address Rigol's modulation approaches (the two blocks that I identified as configurable band pass filters could also be amplitude modulators, utilizing HSMP-3832 PIN diodes, so bear with me...), but since the FPGA is controlling both the main PLL's reference clock and all the attenuators, it's well possible that these are the means for frequency, phase and amplitude modulation. The interface for complex modulation add-on circuitry is included in the signal path before the low-frequency band mixer. Still, this modulator will have to cover a very wide frequency range which is a considerable disadvantage of the straight-through approach.There are two level detectors included in the design, one in front of the attenuator stack and one right at the output. The first one appears to be resposible for the level accuracy since it's heated and temperature stabilized. The second one is probably used as a protection monitor (in case RF is fed back into the output) and as a power monitor for higher output levels when the PA is used.There is no reason that the entry level models of this instruments cannot be unlocked by software to cover the full frequency range unless on recent production models, part of the filters and switches aren't populated. But since these components really aren't ruining the bill, it would probably be less economical to run different production batches than having all the RF boards produced identically.The DSG800 series is clearly built to a budget but I'ld still say that no real corners had been cut that would affect performance. The straight-through approach has also been utilized by other manufacturers, i.e. Dave's Marconi SG follows a similar route.So much for that, if I'ld get my hands on a set of good photos of the "A" version torn down, I'll add some information on the I/Q modulator...

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 11:44:01 pm
content: TurboTom,Thank Youso much for your very insightful observations and explanationsA few questions, from a novices point of view ;-1. Given Rigol's 'straight-through' approach - are there any inherent performance (i.e. better phase noise, smaller harmonics, etc, etc) advantages over the full-range mixer approach?2. Did Siglent adopt a similar approach in their SSG3000x range? or the full-range mixer approach?3. Are there inherent performance benefits of the full-range mixer approach - if so, what are they?Thanks

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 01:08:21 am
content: Quote from: noreply on July 11, 2020, 11:44:01 pmThank you very much for your kind wordsQuoteActually, there are: Provided the same "care" is taken designing an oscillator for the fundamental frequency or one for a higher frequency suitable for mixing, the phase noise would be better for the straight-through approach. Dividing the fundamental frequency to provide the lower bands would further improve the phase noise. Rigol provided a factor "N" in their frequency band table which actually resembles the reciprocal divisor by which the LO frequency is divided to provide the configured output frequency. If a mixing approach is taken to produce the desired frequency, the resulting phase noise will be the geometrical sum of the phase noise of the two frequencies to be mixed, whereas it scales with the "N" factor in case a straight-through approach is utilized. You've got to be aware that the lowest band of the DSG800 utilizes the VFO to be divided by four and then mixed with the 3.64GHz reference divided by four, which results in a worse phase noise than Band 2 which is generated form the VFO divided by eight (see Rigol's table).QuoteSorry, I cannot answer this question exactly since I don't know of a complete tear-down of one of Siglent's SSG3000's RF modules. But the specs of the SSG3000X make me believe that Siglent had a very thorough look at Rigol's design when they started work on their generator... Yet the second lowest frequency band is the mixing product of the VFO divided by two, so provided the phase noise of the VFO of these two specimen is similar, Siglent's approach will be inferior (for whatever reason, Siglent splits the "mixed" frequency range into two, first 9kHz~1Mhz with "N" = 0.25 and the second 1~250MHz with "N" = 0.5).QuoteThere are a some benefits of the full-range mixer approach: Provided the mixing partners, i.e. local reference and VFO frequencies are sufficiently "clean", the amount of filtering / filter switching required to provide a sufficiently "clean" output signal is reduced considerably. It basically reverts to an LPF suitable to block the sum frequency and the feed-through of the individual mixing partners. Modulation may also be easier since everything can be accomplished at a single frequency (the internal reference). Albeit, this frequency is much higher than in case of the "straight-through" approach, so the semiconductors required may be more expensive.Edit: Forgot to mention another substantial advantage of the full-range mixer approach: Since range switching isn't required, signal generators following this approach will be capable of seamless frequecy sweeps over large ranges without dropouts or "phase hickups" which unavoidably will result during range-switching of a straight-through SG. Same situation for (ultra) wide-band FM, if your carrier is right on the edge of a band.I hope this answers your questions so far.All the best,Thomas

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 01:22:23 am
content: Thank you once again for great explanation.Yes - looking through the specifications for both the DGS800A series and the SSG3000X series - Rigol has slightly better phase noise figure quoted - from memory it was -112 dBc/Hz typical to Siglent's -110 dBc/Hz

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 04:29:30 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 09:48:55 pmChicken, I've placed renewed parsings in the previous msg.Check to see if you have a different FW from the ones I have. If yes, I would be interested in getting that one also.Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 06:34:43 pmThanks, this allowed me to correct a rare bug. You could correct your command IDs. It's not the int16 that you assumed (see my list).

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 06:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 12, 2020, 04:29:30 pmJudging from offset and size of DoryApplication.sim, your 00.01.06.00.01 FW file is the same as mine.Quote from: tv84 on July 12, 2020, 04:29:30 pmAre you referring to the ID column in my list? It's the index of the SCPI command structure in the command tree array, not the int16 field that references the array of function pointers. IIRC there are "inert" entries to build the hierarchy. But I agree, your numbering based on function index makes more sense.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 08:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 09, 2020, 06:09:47 pmA practical way that I use to load a IAR file in IDA Pro is using0x3FFFFF94 as the loading address(attached).

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 12:40:56 pm
content: NorepyFrom this thread I take you have have bot the Rigol and Siglent offerings on test currently, so what are you conclusions thus far or is the jury still out?

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 03:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on July 13, 2020, 12:40:56 pmCurrently only the 815 - no stock on the Siglent when review started - but should be getting the Siglent shortly.So far, I like the 815 - it 'does what's written on the tin' as the saying goes.I have been using this for testing RF power amplifiers (as input source) and the signal(s) are extremely clean out of the RF Amplifier(s).As you know, if you put 'crap' into an Amplifier - it WILL amplify your 'crap' - given that there are absolutely clean signal(s) out of the Amp is a good indication.I would like a 'touch screen' (spoiled by the SVA and MSO5000) - but the 815 has a functional system - it takes a while to get used to the menu structure - but its possible to make all the setting you need - but sometimes many key presses.I like the compact size - big bonus - can bring very close to DUT and have 'short' leads.The 815 'looks' dated , I think it was loosely based on the R&S SM300 from a form factor point of view - a tribute to R&S - as their device was last revised in 2007 - and itstill has better specsthan Rigol and the Siglent offerings.What I noticed, is that there is no Square Wave output on the 815 - other than on the LF output (BNC) and only up to 20KHz.Not sure if its same on the Siglent at this moment in time?I can understand that there is no great desire for Square Waves when working with RF (and a digital DAC based signal generator can suffice at a much lower cost) but in my 'one off' case , I was looking for a ULTRA FAST edge in a signal - I guess this is where the 'pulse mode' comes into play. This is my next area of testing , so will report soon.On the 815, this is an option (I think the Siglent has this feature as standard offering - correct me if wrong) so at the moment its on 'trial' mode until time runs out.Modulation works well on the 815, I have been able to successfully modulate FM carrier(s) with various tones and soon full Stereo Encoding with RDS - to check all the pilot frequencies in receiver tests.I am hoping to do a 'full report' - side by side of the main featuresfrom a user's perspective- as soon as I get the Siglent unit and do some similar testing which I made with the 815.My only negative for the 815at this momentis that there is no 'hack' to enhance the device - because if it can be enhanced to the 3.6GHz variant - it will kill the Siglent from a price / performance - without a doubt!Let's face it, most people here don't want to shell out big $$$ on an option which is already 'inside' the device you purchased - just awaiting an activation code?This is why I think 'hackability' is a big factor when deciding to purchase.At the moment the score is ;-DSG815 = 0SSG3021Z=1BUT, if and when DSG815=1 - the Siglent will have to drop its price by a mile as the price / performance ratio of the Rigol will kill it for sure.Like most RF Signal Generator customers TODAY, having a device limited to 1.5GHz is adeal breaker- unless you are ONLY going to be working within this frequency limit.With 2.4GHz, 5GHz and even higher RF devices being the norm today - you really need to have the higher frequency capability - especially if you are going to drop >$3000 for a RF Signal Generator.This makes me think that even the Rigol's 3.6GHz and Siglent's 3.2GHz offerings are already dated.But, and a big BUT, there are already RF Signal Generators which cover the higher frequencies and modern digital modulation protocols out on the marketbutunfortunately they cost lots of $$$.This is why for the majority of 'us' its the Rigol and Siglent offerings (even if dated) that are really affordable at the moment.From a price performance point of view , Rigol and Siglent willalways be behindthe Agilent and R&S offerings - which will be beyond the budget of most people like myself (and possibly others in this forum) - and because Rigol and Siglent choose to be in this market sector we can benefit by having an affordable access to instruments which can be 'enhanced' to make them even more desirable for the price / performance they offer.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 04:01:36 pm
content: Indeed, costing is the issue especially with 5Ghz the minimum requirement for IoT development now. IQ mod is going to more important now as are custom wave form generations. Stability and low phase noise to are more preferable for many I suspect. Understand wishing to maximize your potential purchasing power as we all do. Sometime they will be a null spot and your not quite able to use the normal route. Personally I would look for a good Agilent VSA which will set you back around the same cost as a basic 3.2Ghz version. I now have two of them, one is 4Ghz with the OXCO, six hardware upgrades and a few sw options its not small but its decent cost less than the model you are looking at right now. The second unit I did pay more for but its 10Ghz.Consider a sighound VSG60 amplitude accuracy is incidental, and phase noise looks good for the cost, compared to Rigol or Siglant not sure at what frequency the phase noise is measured?https://signalhound.com/products/vsg60a-6-ghz-vector-signal-generator/https://www.testequipmenthq.com/product/keysight-e4422bhttps://www.testequipmenthq.com/product/keysight-e4428chttps://www.keysight.com/gb/en/assets/7018-02994/data-sheets/5990-8116.pdfhttps://www.testequipmenthq.com/product/aeroflex-ifr-marconi-2026qhttps://www.testequipmenthq.com/product/aeroflex-ifr-marconi-2032https://www.testequipmenthq.com/product/rohde-schwarz-smj100a

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 07:09:49 pm
content: Quote from: noreply on July 13, 2020, 03:09:14 pmSSG3000X offers touch and mouse control.QuoteThe LF modulation section in SSG3kX is rated thus:Sine wave 0.1 Hz~1 MHzSquare wave, triangle, saw-tooth 0.1 Hz~20 kHzQuoteIIRC same for SSG3kX and have it enabled in my unit if there's anything you want to see.QuoteThe newer range of SSG5000X RF gens go to 6 GHz but yes these are getting really pricey.

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 12:35:55 am
content: Rigol DSG815 – FM Modulation TestJust a few screen shots of some simple FM modulation testingThe modulated signal quality from the DSG815 is nice and cleanI dropped the resolution BW on the SVA to get some ‘clean’ plotsSee attached images(Sorry, when I performed the testing I did not figure out how to do a screen shot on the 815 - so used the next best thing - camara)

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2020, 02:37:12 am
content: Just posted some results & a 'how-to' testing Frequency Accuracy for the Rigol DSG815 with a GPSDO 10MHz reference and any oscilloscope capable of X-Y ploting.Here is the linkhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsg815-testing-feedback-and-comments/msg3147430/#msg3147430Hope its of interest to those visiting this thread

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 11:07:21 am
content: Looking just at the FW side, Ithinkit's possible to convert a DSG815 into a DSG830...

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 07:50:22 pm
content: Its interesting to know that there might be mileage in enhancing the DSG815Despite it being released back in 2015 - its still a decent bit of Kit - especially when compared to the more recent Siglent offering of their SSG3000X range.There is another thread - specifically for the review of the SSG3021X - but during the 'testing' - it had been constantly compared to the DSG815 - so for those followingthis thread- please hop over to here (last post as of today)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssg3021x-testing-feedback-and-comments/msg3161586/#msg3161586and review the findings on the DSG815 - quite a few tests have been made - the latest is a full FM stereo & RDS modulation on 108MHz (via EXT Modulation Input) - to test, tune or align any FM / RDS capable FM radio.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 09:17:03 pm
content: It has 4 Options (last 2 of them require additional HW).PUMPUGIQOCXOThe licenses to enable them aresimilar to what rigupcreates. The FW contains default ECC public and XXTEA keys but allows the use of specific ones.If anyone can make a memdump, we can have a dry run.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 10:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on July 28, 2020, 09:17:03 pmWhat's the procedure for a memdump? I may give it a try.

author: noreply
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2020, 05:21:18 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on July 28, 2020, 10:04:01 pmFrom my understanding - easiest way is to use a Jtag cable - to your PC and access the consoleDave's teardown video clearly shows the Jtag connector - its on the CPU board.I think once the memdump is available then we can investigate

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2020, 09:48:13 pm
content: Here's how to enter FACTORY and MANAGER/REPAIR modes:Prepare a USB stick:1. Format as FAT323. Write the following string to disc sector 3 of the USB stick (I used HxD):35O8O228OLO8LNMN9690217963MN2O9ON46O9P05975K0047Plug USB stick into the RF generatorNow the following SCPI commands will work::PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,FACTORYMODEENTRANCE:PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,REPAIRMODEENTRANCE:PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,MANAGERMODEENTRANCEThe first parameter (0) seems to be ignored.MANAGER and REPAIR seem to be identical, but entering REPAIR doesn't require the USB stick.The current mode can be verified with::PRIV:SOFT:MODE?To return to USER mode, power cycle the device or use:PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,USERMODEENTRANCEor:PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,EXITCURRENTMODEAdditional menus show up when in FACTORY/REPAIR/MANAGER mode:Syst > ServiceSyst > Service > CalibrationSyst > Service > RF DataSynSyst > License > DeleteI haven't dared to mess with settings in factory mode yet (like changing the model to DSG830). Don't blame me if you break your RF generatorAnd a little mystery: When triggering the check of the disk sector, an empty file with the name "LqepdclquJ.txt" is created on the USB stick.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2020, 08:13:48 am
content: How to license DSG815/830 optionsInsert the following parameters in the usuallicense generator:Forever Options:AAAB (0x00001) - DSG800-PUM Pulse Modulation & Pulse GeneratorAAAC (0x00002) - DSG800-PUG Pulse Train GeneratorPublic Key:6673BBC777EA4D (Key taken from the current FW. Those interested will have to calculate the Private Key as homework.)As always, insert the licenses with SCPI command :SYSTem:LKEY.Edit: Corrected the options' hex designations.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2020, 06:52:32 pm
content: Rigol's Declassification Guide.

author: JOHN LEE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 09:13:52 am
content: looks good!

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 02:31:42 am
content: I made a breakout board to explore the the OCXO option for the DSG-815 (option OCXO-B08).https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0644/1/-/-/-/-/DSG800%20OCXO%20User%27s%20Guide.pdfPinout:1: GND2: Detect input3: slot4: slot5: VCC6: CLK input7: VCC8: VCC9: GND10: Detect outputVCC is 6.515 V when the signal generator is plugged into mains. This is higher than I expected as the OCXO-B08 datasheet specifies 5.00 V +/- 0.25 V. It didn't drop much with a 220 ohm resistor (~30 mA). Will have to find a bigger resistor to test at loads specified in datasheet (300-600 mA).Detect output (pin 10) goes from 0 to 3.3 V when the signal generator is turned on. When I connect this pin to Detect input (pin 2) through a 1 K resistor Syst > Information > System Info reports the option OCXO-B08. Interestingly, there's no error message even though I don't feed an external clock signal yet.CLK (pin 6) was the only pin left. Not tested yet.The pitch of the pins on the edge-connector is 1mm, 10 positions with a key slot (which is counted as a position). A matching connector is Samtec 1mm Mini Edge Card Socket Vertical, part number MEC1-105-02-F-D-EM2 or MEC1-105-02-L-D-EM2.https://www.samtec.com/products/mec1-105-02-f-d-em2https://www.samtec.com/products/mec1-105-02-l-d-em2The dimensions of my breakout PCB are 32 mm x 50 mm, 1.6 mm thickness. It turned out to be about 3 mm too long, so 32 x 47 mm would be the correct size.The size of the original OCXO is likely 25.4 x 25.4 mm. There are no good images of the OCXO-B08 to be found, but OCXO options for the DSG3000 (OXCO-A08) has similar specifications. Some images for that option show an OCXO from DAPU with part number O22B-G445. Unfortunately, that part number doesn't quite match with the numbering-scheme on DAPU's website:https://www.dptel.com/Products/ProductLevel4/2899Any thoughts about VCC being 6.5 V?Any suggestions for a suitable OCXO for this application?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 09:39:18 pm
content: Usingthisinformation one can easily do a random mistake like this:DSG815 -> DSG836

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 10:31:15 pm
content: the joys of shared hardware (and firmware)!

author: AlexDavidson
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2021, 02:24:07 am
content: Thanks to chicken in reply #49 for posting details about how to enter FACTORY mode. A heads up for anyone wishing to try this (e.g. to make semi-random mistakes with the model number) the string you write to the USB drive needs to be written to logical sector 3, not physical sector 3.

author: Darius121
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 04:40:01 am
content: Thanks tv84,I don't suppose you have any tips on extracting the key for a DSG815 owner?I tried running rigup search & scan on the file plus on the files extracted by binwalk but no luckThanks.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2021, 02:55:36 pm
content: Quote from: Darius121 on October 28, 2021, 04:40:01 amThe instructions are above.

author: Darius121
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 29, 2021, 07:17:38 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on October 28, 2021, 02:55:36 pmI guess I'm blind thenCurrently running 'break' on the public key but no idea how long it will take.

author: Darius121
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 31, 2021, 08:43:43 am
content: Quote from: Darius121 on October 29, 2021, 07:17:38 amTurns out it seems to be broken on Linux and OSX but runs OK on Windows (last 4 digits are 23EF), although the resulting key does not produce something my sig gen likes.

author: AlexDavidson
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:56:20 am
content: QuoteNot just broken on Linux & OSX, but Windows too. After waiting a week for a result from rigup-0.4.2-x86_64-win.exe break 6673BBC777EA4D, I gave up and tried running it on another machine. Instant success. 3521E2B968D60F.

author: Darius121
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 05:44:28 am
content: Quote from: AlexDavidson on November 06, 2021, 12:56:20 amHah thanks!I did find on some systems it will run and finish straight away but give you a different result each time which is obviously broken.I also note you have to remove the -'s from the key before it will be accepted.

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2022, 11:35:48 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on August 03, 2020, 08:13:48 amHi TV84Seems for my Rigol DSG815 with FW 00.01.07 does not work this method.Generated lics starts with RAJ9JBB are invalid.Trial installed are LS9FBxxxxxAny help?Best regards

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2022, 11:25:22 am
content: Quote from: chicken on August 02, 2020, 09:48:13 pmHi.Brand new DSG800.Having problems with SCPI commands.Resulting timeout error:* Error!!!VISA: (Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed.Some command accepted without error like IDN? or TIME, DATE ecc.Other are partially accepted like::PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,REPAIRMODEENTRANCEStill gives me error timeout but:PRIV:SOFT:MODE? gives me the change from USER to REPAIR MODEbut other complex one like dump or FACTORYMODEENTRANCE or serial license install mode gives me error.Have reinstalled VISA driver, tried different OS (Mac, windows) different programs (nc, ultrasigma, Bildschirmkopie), tried append /n /r /r/n /n/r command extended timeout without effort.Any info that Rigol stopped SCPI advanced access or is it only my fault?Any help?Thanks all

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2022, 09:36:13 pm
content: Quote from: Houseman on March 23, 2022, 11:25:22 amIs that with the USB key?What's your firmware version?If I remember correctly, the SCPI implementation is quite picky and I also ran into plenty of timeouts while exploring the undocumented SCPI commands.

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2022, 07:58:23 am
content: Thank You chicken.Quote from: chicken on March 23, 2022, 09:36:13 pmSorry what do You mean by that?If it has a USB slot on the back?Mine is just a DSG815 (no model A)What's your firmware version?-> *IDN?<- (Return Count:50)Rigol Technologies,DSG815,DSGxxxxxxx,00.01.07Firmware version I think latest one available: 00.01.07If I remember correctly, the SCPI implementation is quite picky and I also ran into plenty of timeouts while exploring the undocumented SCPI commands.So what did you do to overcome this timeout? Did you manage get into factory mode?Best regards and thanks

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2022, 06:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: Houseman on March 24, 2022, 07:58:23 amTo enable factory mode you need to insert the USB key/drive prepared with the magic data as described in the original post. The firmware does look for this key when changing modes.I didn't explore much further than enabling factory mode and seeing the extra menus. Most of my reverse engineering was done by analyzing the firmware files. From my notes, it looks like I also only got timeouts for :SERVICE:READ:FLASH.Timeouts probably indicate missing or invalid parameters, or that the SCPI client reads the data in the wrong way, or that the feature is not implemented or broken. Attached a spreadsheet with all SCPI commands I've found with some notes.QuoteI still have 01.06, so there may be differences.

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 11:01:06 am
content: Thanks. Yep, the prepped key has been inserted but with all that timing error I do not know where the fault could be.Do you know any limitation about USB pen size? I mean I have a 8Gb FAT32 format. Maybe it's too big?By the way thank You for pointing out and helping me.One last question: what kind of protocol/program did you use by sending commands to the DSG? Netcat? Ultra Sigma? thank You again

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 11:18:11 am
content: Change USB pendrive. These equipments are extremely picky regarding USB pendisks.Big size isn't better... it forces extra timings recognizing/validating things and that may crash against the timings of the internal software.

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 11:45:52 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on March 25, 2022, 11:18:11 amThank You TV84..."Big size isn't better... it forces extra timings recognizing/validating things and that may crash against the timings of the internal software."Could be the new excuse .... maybe accepted whenever understood by partner..Sorry by digressingYou made me laugh, thanks

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 12:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on November 26, 2020, 02:31:42 amRigol officially claims that the OXCO module has to be inserted at factory by them even after since after plugging the expansion in all RF gen needs to be whole recalibrated again...

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 01:56:44 pm
content: Sorry TV84I am trying different usb sticks by your suggestion.In order to break the problem in parts I wanted to test normal inserted USB keys. I hope that if seen by instruments it will also work for MOD.Do you know by far if a normal USB key inserted will be shown in the System menu automatically? as i.e. using as print screen?Is it like DS1054Z where inserted disk will be detected automatically by the instrument?My system only shows D: internal drive.No other USB disks.Rebooting with normal USB not shown.Best regards and thanksDoes

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 07:11:43 pm
content: Quote from: Houseman on March 25, 2022, 01:56:44 pmI get the E: drive and a small USB icon with the USB stick plugged in. I use a cheap Chinese uSD card adapter with an ancient uSD card, but it also should work with regular USB sticks.Quote from: Houseman on March 25, 2022, 11:01:06 amI used Python with the vxi11 library for my experimentation. Looking at the code, I have just used the write(":PRIV:SOFT:MODE 0,FACTORYMODEENTRANCE") to set user mode, without expecting/reading a response. Then ask(":PRIV:SOFT:MODE?") to verify if it worked.Quote from: Houseman on March 25, 2022, 12:15:23 pmDooh!

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 09:13:11 pm
content: QuoteWhat you just said has enlighten me.You are right. Timeout connection occurs at response. So if I just send the command without asking anything maybe the system accept it even if at response it gives me timeout error.. will give it a try..Thanks.by the way no icon appears by inserting usb stick... maybe have a faulty unit.best regards and thanks

author: Houseman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2022, 09:59:45 pm
content: Finally got an old 256MB usb stick digest by instrument.Prepared disk with sector 3 etc.etc.Wanna laugh?Sending Factory mode command (without asking the response a NAG Screen appears on DSG telling:"Command is protected"Running the command without the key:"USB disk not present"A step forward but now..OK got it.the USB was recognized but size was 0.00Reformatting it to FAT32 again, nag screen disappeared.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2022, 10:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: Houseman on March 25, 2022, 09:59:45 pmSo did you manage entering factory mode?I wondered whether they changed the passphrase with the new FW version. But I just upgraded my DSG815 to 01.07 and the magic USB key still works.Attached the Python scripts I use to enter and exit factory mode. You will have to edit the IP address.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2023, 11:52:50 pm
content: Thanks for the great work all.Update, my initial sweeps show good leveled output up though 2.35GHz, but seems to loose some calibration from there up to 3.6GHz. I suspect they dont bother with full calibrations beyond the models specified freq range.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2023, 06:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on March 25, 2022, 07:11:43 pmIts not that the entire unit needs calibration, its just the OCXO will need to be calibrated once its in the unit, otherwise it will be very stably off frequency.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2023, 07:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 27, 2023, 06:36:15 pmHmm, I guess the 6.5V observed on the VCC pin will then be adjusted by the DSG to tune the OCXO.From the datasheet of the OCXO used on the option for the DSG3000:https://www.dptel.com/Products/ProductLevel4/2899(highlighted 5 is the option based on part-number O22B-G445)Not sure how to interpret that table. +/- 2.5V from nominal 5V supply voltage?

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 03:56:42 pm
content: I suspect pins 5/7 are VCC for the oven and clock operation, pin 8 I suspect is voltage error correction from a DAC output to net the OCXO calibration.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 07:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 28, 2023, 03:56:42 pmPins 5/7 and 8 on the edge connector are joined by the three vias. Also, based on the datasheet, I don't think the OCXO that Rigol uses has a separate pin for the control voltage.If I were to build my own option, I'd probably go with a different OCXO that has a dedicated pin for the control voltage, and then use a voltage divider from VCC with a multi-turn trimpot to adjust the control voltage.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 08:19:07 pm
content: Extended output sweep from the DGS821, 1.000 - 3.200 GHz, the cal is good up through the stock 2.1 GHz range (up to 2.35 GHz), but falls off in the newly liberated extended range. Note, I calibrated out the cable with another known flat generator.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 09:05:23 pm
content: Quote from: chicken on December 27, 2023, 07:45:38 pmI was finally able to view the page from home (work blocked it). The chart is referring to the ordering part number code for the Voltage Control Characteristics or how much error correction range there is. The thing that's throwing me, they dont show a VEC pin? They show in table 2 you can specify 3.3, 5 or 12v VCC and that's pin 5, ground on pin 2, output on pin 1, so either pin 3 or 4 should be VEC.

author: GarbageCan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 01:12:02 am
content: I have a DSG815 and my life would be a lot easier if I had just 150MHz more bandwidth. It looks like people have done some impressive work in this thread, and I'm hoping to try and make my signal generator look a bit more like a DSG836.This is a bit outside my realm, so apologies if this seems obvious. But is the procedure essentially:1) Follow Reply #49 instructions on how to use a USB to enter factory mode2) From Reply #50 use the linked license generator with option AAAB and the private key found (in reply #61 or if you break with the public key) along with your own serial number.3) Insert this generated key using the SCPI command :SYSTem:LKEYIs that all? I wasn't sure if the riglol option of AAAB/AAAC unlock the 3.6GHz or if that is some separate SCPI command. Just trying to wrap my head around what's necessary before I dive into it. Thanks!

author: GarbageCan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 01:09:33 am
content: Okay so I used HxD on my flash drive and was able to have success entering factory mode. The AAAB / AAAC options with riglol as said before unlock the PUM and PUG options which don't affect the maximum frequency. I tried editing the model number with :PRIVate:FACTory:MODEL to change it to DSG836 and I do see the HW Info updated. But this did not unlock the 3.6GHz. I'm reading through the scpi.xls function list that Chicken shared but I am no seeing any factory parameters for maximum frequency. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what type of license of SCPI command to use to actually bump up the maximum frequency from 1.5GHz?

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 02:38:39 am
content: Caveat: I never tried myself to change the model number.While the post way back says DSG836, I think the model number should be DSG830. At least that's the model that Rigol sells.

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 02:41:26 am
content: ok, just checked on the Rigol website and there are other models including DSG836... maybe also depends on the firmware version. When I dug into my firmware, I seem to remember only seeing DSG815 and DSG830.

author: GarbageCan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 02:55:20 am
content: Quote from: chicken on February 27, 2024, 02:38:39 amWhoops, got too fixated on other people's 3.6GHz range. Thanks for the help chicken, setting it to DSG830 did the trick. Once it had power cycled it started at 3GHz. I just tested it with a spectrum analyzer and it looks good where I need it. Thank you so much for your help!!