Lab Supply 2.0 ... The art of vaporware  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:50:29 pm
content: So a friend of mine knew i was in to both electrical engineering and 3D work and suggest i go in to concept design!i have a beef with concept designers %-B ... they create PORN ... they create the sexiest thing on the planet that gets all our hopes up ... even prototypes are made!but those prototypes cost them $100,000 to make a $500 product and the final is either the same as the last product with a software update or they put it in an off the shelf box XPthere cock teases and porn artists and they make me angry!his responce was "yeah ... you will be perfect!" ... so i bit my tong and last night i slapped this thing togeather ... i took about 1 hour making the thing and i just rendered them all quickly over nightSO THERE GOING TO BE POORLY RENDERED AND AS A RESULT SOME TEXTURES WILL LOOK SHITTY!!!(CLICK TO ENLARGE)I just thought this was fun ... any thoughts?AND NO I HAVE NO PLANS TO EVER MAKE THIS ... if you want be my guestanyone want to post fake specs to tease with? XP

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 09:59:07 pm
content: Phwoorrr bloody beautiful! You must be descended from Italian car designers. I can't help wanting one of those, well done!

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: BillyD on April 24, 2013, 09:59:07 pmand its submurgable up to 3,000 fathoms O0 whatever the hell those are XPjk jk ... thanks man!

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 24, 2013, 09:50:29 pmFun? Yes.Getting hopes up? No, not really.Remember, stuff like power supplies are *tools*. While there is no reason why tools need to look like crap there are reasons they look like they usually do. For starters this PSU can't be stacked. The engineers will be unhappy with the probably nonexisting airflow. The users may complain about the blinding lights and that they can't put this into their racks. And so on.Just do not pay attention to any "design studies" - whether for PSUs, measurement instruments, cars, ... - and you will be much happier. It is the same crap as "high fashion", occasionally nice to look at, totally impractical, and out of your price range anyhow.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:17:04 pm
content: Quote from: Matje on April 24, 2013, 10:11:51 pmyou can buy an optional stacking adapter, an optional rack mount and the lights are all PWM you can dim them in software

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:22:32 pm
content: The wanky background makes the numbers hard to read.Quote from: BiOzZ on April 24, 2013, 10:17:04 pmAn optionalstacking adapter?? What's next, "solder in the test leads or buy our optional banana jacks"?

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:25:35 pm
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 24, 2013, 10:17:04 pmJudging from the images there can't be a reasonable way to affix a stacking adapter to it, and why would I want to pay extra for it anyway? ;-)Fair point on the rackmount stuff, would need that for the usual devices too.As for dimming the lights: there are just to damn many lights in any case. Nobody is working at a dark workbench, in fact sufficient lighting is one of the most important things for a reasonable workplace. Brightly lit buttons are just, uhhh, somewhere between unnecessary and nasty.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:26:48 pm
content: Quote from: Matje on April 24, 2013, 10:25:35 pmIn the same way as 0.00000000000001 is somewhere between 0 and 1.

author: Baliszoft
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:28:56 pm
content: Let me excuse, but i would not buy this.

author: Short Circuit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:33:44 pm
content: +1 The shitty isn't in the rendering

author: jmole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:44:10 pm
content: My feedback:The LCD display's background is irritating and unnecessary.The unit is 3x as wide as the front panel. why??Button labels on the bottom of the LCD are unreadable.Font consistency among buttons is driving me nuts. Why use a serif font on the numerical keypad?Personally, I don't like the bold font for the LCD display.Labels on banana jacks are horrendous.Not sure why the CC active light is blue, and the CV light is green? Would probably read better if the inactive button was just off, rather than red.Also, why a square keypad for function commands? Try something new!Another thought: Why not back the banana jacks glow, rather than adding an LED for each channel status?All that said, you rock! Keep on refining this thing until it's portfolio worthy! You've got the rendering figured out, now figure out the interaction design for the front panel!

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: jmole on April 24, 2013, 10:44:10 pmThank you for yourCONSTRUCTIVEcriticism ill have fun poking around with this and refining it with some of your HELPFUL pointers

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 10:59:00 pm
content: It would be better in woodgrain with silver embossed lettering and an art deco inspired font.

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 11:09:29 pm
content: Hmm, hope everyone remembers that this was only meant to be for a bit of fun!Anyway, a couple of hopefully constructive points that spring to mind:Agree that the display would be better without the background patternButtons could be made bigger.Suggest putting the voltage+current display for channel 1 vertically on the left, and for channel 2 vertically on right, to match the position of the jacks.Need labels on the dials, and if one corresponds to a specific channel maybe try putting it on the same side as the channelThe soft buttons around the screen look a bit too small and I think 5 may too many for the size of the screen.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 11:12:39 pm
content: Quote from: BillyD on April 24, 2013, 11:09:29 pmhehe yeah! it was made in an hour for funzies! some people are acting like this is about to replace all there equipment tomorrow XDbut i do want to turn this in to better vaporware porn so the helpful hints are very well needed!!and thank you for your feedback i will add it to my list for my secound throw at it!

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 11:18:32 pm
content: It's nice, but I don't think the rounded top is very practical. Being able stack more equipment on top of it would be better.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2013, 11:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on April 24, 2013, 11:18:32 pmnothing a cheap molded plastic cap cant fix XP

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 01:10:50 am
content: First thing I thought of when I saw this was a morbidly obese individual stuffing a chocolate cream éclair into their mouth. This is not a good thing.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 01:18:45 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on April 25, 2013, 01:10:50 amO.o .. no ... no it is not

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 01:47:09 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on April 25, 2013, 01:10:50 amNow that you mention it - it certainly does bear a resemblance to the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 08:14:07 am
content: Function should define form, or so they say.Unfortunately, if you follow that rule too strictly you end up losing all uniqueness in your designs.Just look at the humble automobile.When I was a kid in the 1960s, I could identify *every* car make and model on the road from 200 yards away -- because they were all so distinctly different.Remember, this is in the days before super-low drag coefficients, when fuel-efficiency was unimportant and the only safety feature was a cup holder on the dashboard for your tinny of beer.Today, all damned cars look the same.Instead of being designed by artists such as Pininfarina, Bertone, Malcolm Sayer et al -- we get vehicles that are designed by computers -- with humans just deciding how wide to make the pinstriping and what colours to use.When function defines form to too great a degree we end up with uniformity and boredom.So, for test gear -- yes, bear in mind the functions and how design might affect them -- but there should still be room for flare, creativity and panache when it comes to such things. Or we might as well just have one company in China churning out boring beige boxes by the millions and selling them to every test-gear manufacturer -- at least that would save us some money.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 08:25:16 am
content: Does this power supply come with a spoiler?How about under-body lighting?

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 08:42:35 am
content: This thing is horrible.Too much buttons and funky light.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:07:49 am
content: One thing i noticed on here with allot of you guys many of you simply hate chance and things that are new and diffrent "too many buttons" "lights" "curvy shape"i never really expected such conservative thinkers on an electronics sitedon't get me wrong i also see allot of people with some great points and critiquesmay i also add to the people complaining about the size i should have mentioned it was intended to be a 12 amp linear supply ...

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:22:40 am
content: Really appreciate your sharing and your energy & time spent making this.Just my 2 cents, try browse the bench PSUs thread (link at my sig), it has lots of many different types of bench psus, and I believe you can get the best parts out of those many different designs.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:24:09 am
content: My biggest beef with product design is when things are not intuitive to use.Looking at the picture of the front panel it is not immediately obvious how to use it. I would have to read the manual or sit and play with it for a while to learn how to use it. Fair enough if it's some super complex and specialized test equipment but something as simple and everyday as a bench PSU then anyone who has used a bench PSU before should be able to take it out of the box and just use it at least on a basic level.As an example, a relative bought a fan heater a few years ago. It has a fancy LCD screen and soft keys and a menu system but I had to sit with the manual for about 20 minutes to figure out how to turn it on.It always seems fairly clear to me when user interfaces/front panels have been designed by engineers (and I speak from the point of being an EE). You can see someone has thought up loads of fancy features and bells and whistles which they understand really well (because they designed them). Then they put them all in a menu system with a few soft keys to keep the hardware costs down, but that doesn't matter because they understand all the features and how the menu system is structured. Job done, they think, because they find their system intuitive to use. Along comes a customer who just thinks 'Oh FFS it's a bloody fan heater, I just want it to have an on button and a temperature knob. I can't be arsed to read a manual and learn all this stuff'When you borrow a friend's car you don't sit and read the manual and learn how to use all the controls and features. That's because the pedals are where you expect to find them, the steering wheel works the same as in other cars you've driven etc etc. If you need to know something complicated like where the fusebox is or how to program the radio then it's in the manual if you need it.That turned into a bit of a rant which wasn't fully directed at your design, I think you've done a good job. It does need a flat top though so you can put other stuff on top of it

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:31:17 am
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 25, 2013, 09:07:49 amI'm Young, i love changes.But this thing look like exit from the mind if a kid with a rendering program in his brain.No way it ca be usable, or inspire quality.A thing like this should be simple, practica, well-built.Look at the hakko soldering station that daves has. It's funky, nice and strange. But it's also super simple, intuitive and well made.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:44:51 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 25, 2013, 09:22:40 amthanks for the link! i will poke threw them!Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on April 25, 2013, 09:24:09 ami did take some time in to thinking ease of use and i did take it in to account altho its not blatantly obviousfor one i did away with any idea of a touch screen right away ... when i working i know i like a tactile feedback and dont want to smudge up the screenon the buttons you have Constant Current, constant voltage, store, recall, S/P/I (outputs in series, parallel or the outputs independent), over voltage protection, over current protection, than channel on and off buttons for each or all the channels (plus more but these are the obvious ones)they work simply as you might think they would and as you see on many power suppliesthan on the side you have 2 knobs ... so you can adjust 2 things independently ... you first select what you want a knob to control with the inbetween buttons than you click the knob and the lights on the knob and on the button change to the same colormany people surly wont just sit down and get this but i think its about the simplest way to use 2 knobs to control 4 different things with modularabilitybut many things will still be confusing ... some more options here ... i could put instructions on the thing ... but for home use its rather pointless ... so i included an in software help menu (will probably put this as a button later) for quick help on how to use the basic features than you can poke buttons in that menu to find out what everything does and how do use it very quicklythan deeper in the help menu how to utilize the advanced featuresi agree that this wont be a simple bench unit and it probably wont be fit for general things that 2 simple 10 turn pots and a single display can accomplish ... the intention was really a home unit that can do allot more than just supply power and current with allot of flexibilitybut i thank you for your feedback and i will take it in to account on the next version!this started out as a funzie one time fun render but with all the feedback i think i can start making vaporware that you would want on your bench! .. but will never get XP

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 09:47:15 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on April 25, 2013, 09:31:17 amwell i can tell this is clearly not for youif you want a simple supply there are tens of thousands of them out there to choose fromthe point of this is to make something more intuitiveand even tho i can tell your trolling attitude but when i was a kid i would not make somthing like this

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:33:47 am
content: First thing this reminded me of was a radio from the 30s/40s.Quote from: BiOzZ on April 25, 2013, 09:07:49 amThat makes it non-stackable; seeing some of the photos people have posted of their workbenches, space efficiency is important.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:35:32 am
content: I think it's a great start! I like your 3D modelling skills; they are much better than mine! I have to agree with "jmole"s comments. I did a bit of Photoshop hacking of your pics and this is the kind of look'n'feel I would probably explore If I was making one. but I'm probably too conventional.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:54:06 am
content: Quote from: amyk on April 25, 2013, 10:33:47 amif you read some of the other comments you will see that its stackable with an plastic capbut this whole "its not stackable!" is as old as EE it self every time somthing new comes outmy professor told us he was at a meeting and an unnamed well respected electrical engineer once said "these new digital oscilloscopes will never ketch on, you cant put anything on top of them!" my professor responded "if its that big of a problem then put it on top!"but with the cheap plastic adapter that point is mootwith my own looking around in power supply threads i hardly ever really see people stacking power supplies ... im sure some people do (even i have 2 power supplies stacked on top of eachother ... thats why the cap idea came to mind) but this is not really all that designed for stacking anything on top of it .. for that you want a boxy metal supported power supplythats not the point of a vaporware visual cock tease ... what many people appear to be forgetting is the point of the whole thing

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:55:47 am
content: Quote from: jucole on April 25, 2013, 10:35:32 amnice work there!and thank you!yeah after reading many comments im probally going to take something like that in the rev 2 render and place it beneath itsticking 2 products in one image!please everyone XP

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 11:22:04 am
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 25, 2013, 10:54:06 amJust test gear in general. I don't have a single piece of test gear that's not on top of or underneath some other piece (except the few small handheld items, which get put up on the top shelf), and I don't think that's uncommon.

author: Ghydda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 11:25:13 am
content: That's hilarious Tepe! What where they thinkingBut getting back to BiOzZ's concept - what I really would like to see is a detachable front panel. My lab is extremely small and hence the real estate prices are enormous.I would like a snazzy and sleek front panel minus the jack-posts. Then I could store the bulk of the power supply under the desk and just have a small control panel on top of the desk

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 11:45:34 am
content: Expanding on that idea, USB control would be nice. It has digital controls already, so that is easy to implement. Even just use the same UART interface both for USB control and the detachable front panel.

author: Ghydda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 11:59:12 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on April 25, 2013, 11:45:34 am+1 for USB-interface

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 12:30:56 pm
content: Just a power switch and a touchscreen, no buttons or dials! That would become the iSupply

author: Ghydda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 12:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: madires on April 25, 2013, 12:30:56 pmYeah I can see it already, the Appstore purchases needed to actually get going:iVariable voltage outputCV-iOptionCC-iOptionLowRipple iModeiCloud save settings spaceReduced iFan noise50 dollar adapter cable to binding postsFacebook app for iInstant posting of setpoints and Like-abillity of fellow posters dittoAnd... ...so... ...on

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 02:22:01 pm
content: Quote from: BiOzZ on April 25, 2013, 09:07:49 amNah. Many of us simply hate shit form factors that cost too much bench space. But on the subject of that rounded top ... why stop here? You could make a spherical PSU with a Death Star look and feel to it. Okay it would constantly roll off your bench but who the hell cares, it's new and changes things! That'll show those conservative thinkers the error of their non-changing ways!And loads of leds just for the sake of loads of leds is just f-ing annoying. Then again, you possibly meant to show that all buttons have the possibility to be lit. And then during operation only 2 or 3 buttons actually light up at a time. If you would have shown that you might get less "OMG XMASTREE!!!" and "MY EEEEEEYES!!!" remarks. But as it is it just looks too damn busy for no good reason, other than to distract. Oh yeah and try not to use 32498634 fonts on a simple front panel.But since you meant it as a bit of fun ... nicely done rendering!

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 02:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on April 25, 2013, 11:01:22 amROFL!!! Oh man.... Is this thing for real? O_oI'll give them one thing though, by the looks of it they DID make it stackable. Look, it even has a Duplo style adapter on top. The top bit on the right, I think it's just the proper size to fit a Duplo brick...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 02:30:13 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on April 25, 2013, 02:22:01 pmOK, I do have to comment there - yes. Very, very nice. I'll admit I'm not a fan of almost every aspect of the design itself, but you have done an awesome job rendering it. I think I could practice and practice for half my life and not be half as good.Quote from: BiOzZ on April 25, 2013, 09:07:49 amNope. For example, the recent Agilent oscilloscopes have a very modern look to them and I think they're positively sexy. I don't think there are too many buttons, actually - Ilikebuttons, especially if they're not "soft" buttons. The more features that get moved out of a menu that I have to fuck with and onto the front panel the better, even if it makes the interface a bit less "elegant". I do not like the lights because they don't serve a purpose. Use them for indication instead of art and I'll like them a lot more. And I don't dislike the shape because it's modern and curvy, I dislike it because it's impractical for a bench. Itispretty.Function should come before form, but that doesn't mean form should be disregarded. You just have to make the form work with the function instead of against it.

author: kfitch42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 02:41:31 pm
content: If your going to go for a concept design, then REALLY go for it! Don't just give the body a funky shape.How about something where each channel gets its own dedicated screen (showing current volts/amps) and rotary encoder (or two) to set these values? No more selecting a channel to tweak ... remember the atten power supply vid where Dave spent half (or more) of the time trying to remember the key sequence to get the rotary encoder to modify the correct value?

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: Ghydda on April 25, 2013, 11:25:13 ami like that idea ... sort of like modern soldering stations

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on April 25, 2013, 11:01:22 amHOLY FUCKBALLS ... this is somthing i expect to see at toys R us O.o ... please tell me this is fake

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:37:04 pm
content: Nope.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:39:38 pm
content: The same company has many products that all look like toys. Somebody appears to have taken take-your-child-to-work day a little too seriously...

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: Tepe on April 25, 2013, 11:01:22 amTo be fair, isn't that intended to be worn on a belt or harness rather than stacked on a bench?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2013, 10:49:52 pm
content: Yep, so you can look just like Bob the Builder!

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 12:26:43 am
content: Our 'my first calibration lab' was a bust, time for plan B, professional grade lab equipment!"but sir we already purchased 10,000 cases!"thats why we will market towards 30 year old kids and pedophiles!"sir i am worried about you"TO THE METREL-MOBILE!

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 07:57:28 am
content: Forgive my ignorance. But when you say you "quickly" rendered them all over night, does it actually take that long to render a 3D model these days?I just would have assumed that a PC could do it in seconds not hours?

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 12:57:14 pm
content: A complete photorealistic render should take DAY, even weeks on a normal pc.Rendering is an incredibly massive computational task.

author: BiOzZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2013, 02:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: Harvs on April 26, 2013, 07:57:28 amnormally no ... with GPU rendering i could have done the same thing in an hourproblem is im using emission textures for the buttons and screen that is currently not supported by my current renderer (luxrender 1.3 dev build) so i had to render it on the CPU (intel i7 at 4.3ghz)i knew i had to use light groups so i did not use blenders built in path tracing engine called cycles that soupports this image on GPU ... but as it was late anyway an over night render was not much of a problem so i chose the best looking route and used luxrender on the CPUbut yes ddavidebor is generally right ... 99% of my high quality renders take about 8 hours on GPU ... and thats with 1.8 MILLION samples per second per pixel on a 1080x1920 imagei have once rendered an image that had hair and grass and skin and sun and trees and all of that that took a WEEK of off and on GPU rendering ... probably 4 or 5 days worth totalthis is why most professionals have seperate dedicated computers for this ... this is just a hobby of mine so i use my gaming PC but i did anticipate rendering when i built it (32gb of ram and nvidia/intel on everything and such)SIDE NOTE: for rendering you choose an nvidia graphics card for the nvidia GPU computing engine called CUDA is more widely supported than AMD and faster than openCL ... nothing more

author: Ghydda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:05:32 am
content: I'm not entirely driven away by the look of this.It's cute somehow. Minimalistic interface. One knob.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:31:33 am
content: Quote from: Ghydda on May 02, 2013, 11:05:32 amI have one of these one sitting on my hobby bench; I bought it a few years ago when I started electronics because I thought it looked quite nice ;-) It's got a nice clear display and large dial, which I like.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:40:24 am
content: The case looks almost like a projector.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:47:58 am
content: Quote from: Ghydda on May 02, 2013, 11:05:32 amOne knob for two settings!! When you've hundreds of settings you obviously must stuff a few into menus, buttwo? Give me another knob, please!

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 11:48:13 am
content: In Zen and the Art of motorcycle Maintenance, Pirsig postulated that quality is defined as the confluence of objective and subjective.I can see that the subjective is good, however the objective part still needs some work in many areas as others have already pointed out.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 12:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 02, 2013, 11:47:58 amThat one only has one knob to set the voltage; the current is just for indication; so one knob works ok.