New hybrid chip. Is it an FPGA or is it a microcontroller? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 10:06:04 am
content: The chip in question isGowin GW1NSR-4C.It is a combined FPGA and Cortex-M3 microcontroller in one chip. Here are its specs:FPGA part:4608 LUTs3456 FF's10x 18k block SRAM16x 18-by-18 hardware multiplier256k bits onboard Flash64M bits SiP PSRAM or 32M bits SiP NOR Flash2 PLLsBuilt-in RC oscillator with 5% accuracy39 IO pins for QFN48 package, 55 IO pins for BGA64 package.MCU part:80MHz Cortex-M3 coreROMless and RAMlessSysTick timerWatchdog timer2 peripheral timers2 UARTs1 GPIO controller with 16 GPIOs1 external RAM interface1 AHB Master port1 AHB Slave port1 APB Master portAll ports goes into the FPGA matrix

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 10:22:06 am
content: I've seem also some chinese ARM mcus with 64MB embedded sdram. The only issue was no english documentation!FPGA + SDRAM + powerful ARM dual core would be an absolute monster! I'm sure that will happen in a few years. More like a SOC than a MCU.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 10:41:35 am
content: Sounds interesting. Do you know where I can get full documentation, the IDE, and samples?

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 11:13:13 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 28, 2021, 10:41:35 amJust go to the linked page and you will get docs and the software. You need to email them for a free license to the software. You have to find the samples yourself though, as we are in the middle of a chip shortage.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 04:31:45 pm
content: They seem to be impossible to find from any distributor other than aliexpress/ebay/taobao.In the same family there are lower end FPGAs with USB HS PHY, which I don't get. There is barely enough resources to implement a basic USB peripheral in the logic. There won't be much space for anything else. And Cortex-M3 side does not have hardened USB peripheral.And for some reason USB PHY disappears on the higher capacity devices.Also, the whole email to get a license is a bit sketchy.

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 04:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 28, 2021, 10:41:35 amThere are development boards for sale on aliexpress.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 07:43:12 pm
content: That's really not the first hybrid with MCU core + FPGA fabric. Tons out there already. But maybe it's the cheapest?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 07:46:53 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 28, 2021, 07:43:12 pmThis doesn't seem to be an MCU core + FPGA. Its a complete MCU, with peripherals etc., + FPGA. I think that's something new.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 08:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on April 28, 2021, 07:46:53 pmWell, once you know how to use the tools, the existing SOCs make it relatively easy to do the same. While the peripherals will be implemented on the FPGA fabric, you basically get the same features.Now at least the Microchip Smartfusion has exactly this: MCU core + peripherals + analog blocks + FPGA blocks. While I don't know about Gowin prices, I suspect they will be much cheaper though.I have seen some market analysis predicting a significant growth for hybrid FPGA+MCU/CPU SOCs in the coming years, so expect more similar stuff to come.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 09:19:34 pm
content: Yosys faq, states that it targets Gowinsemi GW1N. So that might be an alternate synthesis tool for the fpga side.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 06:00:38 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on April 28, 2021, 10:22:06 amI think what you mean is Allwinner V3s and F1C200s. Those are not MCUs, but full blown MPU's with 64MB MCP SDRAM and those chips are supposed to run Linux. V3s has a single 1.2GHz Cortex-A7 core and F1C200s has an ARM926 core.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 06:07:07 am
content: Quote from: coppice on April 28, 2021, 07:46:53 pmIt's somewhere in the middle. Zynq, Cyclone SoC and SmartFusion are complete MCU/MPU and FPGA side by side, while those "MCU core + FPGA" chips have nothing attached to the MCU core. Here with Gowin we do have bare minimal peripherals, even though it still relies on the FPGA to provide the MCU core with some of its critical components like memory.Quote from: blueskull on April 29, 2021, 06:01:38 amLOL me too.English DS only and very crappy English.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 06:12:36 am
content: Just saying, Gowin has a Aurora (or their next generation architecture) based FPGA with at least a 1GHz+ dual core RV64G CPU complex on their roadmap, and I have gave them the idea to embed 1.2V DDR4 SDRAM with that FPGA (since their FPGA of that generation will use 1.2V core voltage, the VCORE pins on that design would supply not only the FPGA core but also the DDR4 I/O bank and the MCP DDR4 die.)I hope we can see that FPGA with dual-core RV64G and 1GB embedded DDR4 memory soon, hopefully still in that QFN88 package.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 07:14:06 am
content: QuoteThat would be a great feedback to them, if you can put some ideas on their design team, please tell them to add 6-10Gbps SEREDES to the chips tooand we like the QFN88 package too.Also more LUT and DSP inside the parts, like 100K lut and 400-800 DSP slices.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:33:13 am
content: Quote from: ralphrmartin on April 28, 2021, 04:34:39 pmdo you have links? because i can only find a couple of entries for the GW1N-1 (FPGA only, the smallest part)

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:52:04 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on April 29, 2021, 07:14:06 amI think you are asking for too much.I'm not sure if they can gain access to a good SerDes IP, and that would require silicon change. Getting DDR4 SDRAM in there is a much simpler request since it involves no silicon change.Quote from: blueskull on April 29, 2021, 08:02:39 amSad story. They are not Huawei who has the financial backing and the sheer volume, so if US want to they might be crushed into oblivion.Quote from: JPortici on April 29, 2021, 09:33:13 amI have my own GW1NSR-4C board design and it is open source.https://github.com/SushiBits/GowinduinoYou have to source the chips yourself though.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:57:56 am
content: Quote from: technix on April 29, 2021, 09:52:04 amthat's the problem

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 03:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on April 29, 2021, 09:33:13 amThe only link I can find today ishttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002369198795.htmlwhich is not the same part, as you say. Yet there were definitely more items yesterday.Ho hum... Next time I will be careful to give the full link when I see it.