Getting into 3D Printing: Ultimaker vs Prusa, or your advice please! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bsodmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 03:23:16 pm
content: Hi All,Right, so this is the next step for me. Ideas?I'm looking for as much a "hassle" free solution, and the bulk of me initial needs are for enclosure purposes. I like the idea of being able to make my own rather than having to buy Hammond cases AND then stack on the cost/time of having to modify them to suite my needs.It's far quicker to fab the PCB + have the enclosure ready to print. By the time the PCB arrives, I could prototype a couple enclosures and be much farther along the way.Appreciate advice if you've used any of the above options.Thanks!Mike.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 05:04:41 pm
content: I work with higher spec 3D printers (starting at around 5.000 Euro/US$) and in my opinion the cheap DIY ones are rubbish if you want, within an industrial environment, to get the job done, when needed.I have nothing to say about the Ultimaker and the Prusa, but I believe these are hobby devices where you "learn" by gradually improving them and spending more and more money on them.The printers we distribute have much more engineering into them and, above all, much more process know-how embedded in the software. They also come with a selection of tested materials you can use.If all you want is to have a case for some PCB's you design, then my guess is that it would be quicker, safer and cheaper to order a prototype from one of the online 3D printing services.Did I mention "safer"? Yes: some of these machine can catch fire and should not be left working without supervision, which is kind of odd, as a typical print can take hours...Quality-wise there are many problems with the cheaper DIY devices:- low precison- low resolution- low resistance- materials prone to fail under UV, humidity, heat, ...- process issues due to excess heat, too little heat, uneven heat distribution, bending, failure to support layers, etc.But yes, it is possible to obtain a great print from a 100 Euro 3D printer, after spending lots of money improving the components (Z axis, PSU, nozzle, etc.) and spending even more time trying out different parameters until the part is printed OK.Regards,Vitor

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 05:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on October 07, 2020, 05:04:41 pmhttps://loja.amfan3d.com/product/ultimaker-3*cough*

author: ComradeXavier
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 05:59:26 pm
content: Prusa and Ultimaker are neither cheap DIY printers nor are they industrial volume production machines. (Although Prusa at least make a lot of their parts using a print farm of their own printers.)They occupy a middle ground of "desktop" sized machines for buyers who are willing to pay a premium for a better user experience than buying a cheap kit from China. Both companies develop their own software and sell materials for which they provide tuned profiles for their machines. Both have a pretty good reputation for working well out of the box. (Prusa will sell you their machine as a kit if youwantto build it yourself.)

author: Chris42
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:04:33 pm
content: As a PRUSA I3 MK3S owner I can say that it is a great 3D printer.Probably one of the best in it's price range (749$ as a kit and 999$ assembled).I bought a kit version and assembled it over 4 days and everything works great.Print quality is very good even with default profile in prusa slicer.Also it is fully open source and hacker friendly so you can buy parts from anywhere you like, use any material you like and run any firmware you like (factory flashed prusa firmware is a good choice though).You can also mod it if you wish. It is also very quiet even in normal mode (it has a special silent mode if you want it to be even quieter).So far I don't see any cons of this printer but compared to ultimaker it does have a DIY feel to it (no enclosure of any kind, heavy use of 3D printed parts, y axis mounted using zipties) but it is not a big issue as far functionality is concerned. Menu is displayed on a text display but it is good enough.I have not used an ultimaker but I have seen it live. I also have seen some prints and quality is comparable with Prusa.But Ultimakerbelongs to a different category of printers. It targets professionals, so it has a nice enclosure, nice menu with nice touch screen (it even comes with a WiFi and you can watch your prints through an integrated camera). For Prusa you have to add this functionality through 3th party software and hardware (octoprint + raspberry pi).Based on my experience I can recommend Prusa printer.However if you want something with a professional feel to it (and you can afford it) then buy an Ultimaker.But you should go and watch some reviews on youtube before you make up your mind. They will show you how the printer look's like in details and how it operates so you will know what to expect.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:18:46 pm
content: I don't have personal experience with a Prusa, but for what it does (non-enclosed single filament low-volume prints) it's a good machine.My current printer is a Raise3D Pro2 Plus (~$6k) loaner. It is not a good machine, and I won't be buying it. But it's good enough for printing PVDF and CF-filled nylon, which were my main use cases.Currently looking at BCN3D Epsilon W50. In the 7k region without the cabinet but frankly as long as it works reliably I don't really care if it's 5k or 10k. I'll have to organizeI also have a 10k quote for the dddrop rapid one, basically an entry-level industrial machine. But it doesn't have dual extruders, which is one of the requirements for me.Stratasys et al are out due to no open filament support. Same for Markforged, although they're a consideration if I need a machine for exclusively reinforced prints.Anisoprint is interesting, but max 270C on their desktop machines is tad bit too low.I've not heard good things about Ultimaker from people that have been longer at 3D printing than I have, but I don't know exactly why they don't like it and I don't have personal experience. Most people I talked with work with Stratasys, Markforged at their job and Prusa at home.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:40:42 pm
content: I have been though the following FDMs1. Ultimate original (built from kit)2. Zortrax M200 - still got it - my workhorse for ABS3. Ultimaker 3 - got rid of it - does not do any better than my M200 for ABS4. Cell Robox Dual - not done testing but darn good for the price. Small print area but dual material and as well built or better than Ultimaker (but still not tank like the Zortrax)If you can deal with the rather rude people at Zortraxthen an old M200 is just super and you can pick them up for 4-600 GBP. But when it comes to support expect to be treated rather harshly.I don't print in anything but ABS - so my requirements are much higher than the average printer - ABS is hard'ish to print with unless the machine is good.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:42:24 pm
content: ABS is very easy to print with, but open air is a recipe for disaster. Other than the shrinking issue it's one of the best behaving materials.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 06:53:59 pm
content: Oh. You might want to consider a Form 3 if you *don't* need wide material selection. I have one coming for small prints/molds that don't need to be particularly strong, but need good tolerances.

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 09:54:29 pm
content: I have a flashforge creator 3... prints nicely but maintenance is a desaster.The slicer, flashprint, could be better as well... ok for 99% it's fine.If I were you, I'd get the manuals and see how much time is needed to disassemble the machanics and to put grease in all the bearings.For the creator3 it's around 4 hours all in all.That seems to be a low figure, but there 0 guidance!Stay away of the printer if they suggest to put some grease on the rails.73

author: phlegeton
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 10:38:15 pm
content: I don't know how much you already know about 3D printing. My experience is that when starting with 3D printing, the learning curve can be steep. I don't know about other 3D printers. I use an Ultimaker 2+ and looking for a second UM3. The reason is: the UM just works. When I run into problems, it's most likely settings related (temp setting / wall thickness, bed leveling / print speed, etc). Depending on what your going to do with 3D printer (just print ready made models or design your own). Which also means you may have to learn 3D modeling.So it comes down to:- If you want to learn about 3D printers and the process itself: choose a cheaper 3D printer.- If you want to get stuff done, and actually focus on the end result, then choose a higher end printer.However: With the UM your "bound" to use 2.85mm filament, whereas most of the other brands use 1.75mm filament. This can be important. If you ever gonna decide you need a second 3D printer (for example: your prints are getting more and more complex, and longer to print) you can end up with the situation you have to keep 2 types of filaments in stock, which can be expensive.

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2020, 10:44:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on October 07, 2020, 05:04:41 pm>Ultimaker and the Prusa, but I believe these are hobby devices where you "learn" by gradually improving them and spending more and more money on them.Heh, far from it. Prusa and Ultimaker are top-tier consumer grade 3D printersOP I guess it's a question of budget & item complexity. I myself have a Prusa i3 MK3S + MMU2S, and this has been solid for the past 2-3 years (with the exception of the MMU2S which was apain to get up and running. Also I found out that the MMU2S isnot so great when printing in different materials, as you have to purge large volumes between material swaps if you want layer strength to remain the same as with single material modeSo if you want to print complex models that require support and have the buget for a dual nozzle Ultimaker, then go for that. Otherwise go for the Prusa i3 MK3S

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 02:14:06 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on October 07, 2020, 05:04:41 pmTell that to the many professional engineering and manufacturing businesses I know using them, both for prototyping use and in print-farm configurations!

author: bsodmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 09:12:23 am
content: Quote from: phlegeton on October 07, 2020, 10:38:15 pmThanks for the filament tip. I'm already pretty good with Fusion 360. Something I've worked on recently (attached).I haven't done much with 3D printing and supports etc, but yes, there will be a learning curve and I'm interested to start learning too!

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2020, 02:56:55 pm
content: I actually use my 3D printers ALL THE TIME, as in daily. I also use them for production of some goods for sale.Prusa MK3 is GTG. As far as consumer level printers, it is as plug-n-play as you will get, and it is pretty darn plug-n-play.For prototyping, you will likely be using PLA filament. It prints easily and is perfectly fine for prototypes. PETG also prints very well, and is good for most all consumer goods that doesn't need to withstand temps above 70c.With your Prusa, you can even print with flexibles to prototype gaskets, which I do as well.Bottom line, unless you have a huge budget for a commercial printer, I would at least start with the Prusa.If the build volume is large enough, I have a Prusa Mini and it is also a good machine, and for half that of the MK3. Make sure you get the $20 filament sensor, and no matter which machine you go with, get a textured build sheet for PETG.

author: ttt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 01:09:21 am
content: My main 3D printers right now are two Prusa MK3s. I've had many other 3D printers before but the Prusa is hands down the best. I use them mostly to print enclosures. I've had to deal with Ultimakers before at my company. Biggest issue is that the Ultimaker still uses 3mm filament by default which limits your choices and reliability is also not as good as the Prusa.- The spring metal sheet build plate is way better in practice than the glass plate of the Ultimaker.-The textured PEI build sheet Prusa provides is KILLER if you plan on printing enclosures as it hides printing artifacts on that flat surface really well.- The motor drivers have stall detection which means crashes are automatically detected. The machine will usually recover nicely from that. If you print with blobby material like PETG it's IMO critical to have.- The motor driver stall detection replaces limit switches, i.e. there are no limit switches on the Prusa. In my experience limit switches are usually the first problem you encounter on 3D printers.- Prusa Slicer is excellent and the defaults for the MK3s usually work perfectly.Now, I do not recommend to buy the MMU2s extension. While it's the best you can get right now it's a maintenance nightmare. Avoid.If you can spare a day, get the kit. It's fun to build and you learn tons about the machine.I use PETG for most of my enclosures as PLA is too brittle and ABS/PC etc. tends to warp too much. I use PC when I need to deal with PCBs which get got.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 03:15:11 pm
content: My coworker who’s very much into 3D printing hates the Ultimaker at work so much that he brought his personal Prusa into work so we could get things done.

author: fatalelieberi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 04:14:04 am
content: Why don't you try Tevo Tornado? I've been using it for 2+ years and I'm very pleased with it. It's not as expensive as Prusa or Ultimaker but can give good results if you can configure it well. And currently, Cura, the slicing program from Ultimaker, has already pre configured settings that are already good enough with minimal efforts.