Electronics technician vs EE at university - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 08:25:35 am
content: What all jobs can electronics technicians get vs full fledged EE degree's from university ?How long do can either take ?I would not want to be an Electrician wiring houses, doing apprenticeships, that type of stuff and "guild" like structure, nice money I think tho. So I don't mean that.Fire away with any thoughts on this. I should switch from doing this as a hobby to full time study/jobI could eat math/calculus for dinner, so math is no problem, however it gets dull/tedious sometimes, but I already know 1/2 of it. I'd learn the other 1/2 on my own if I was living in the 1800s without no computer to waste time on.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 09:28:54 am
content: I'm not sure if I understand the question.Are you talking about the going to university now vs apply for an apprenticeship?The answer is either can get you the same level of qualifications, depending on what course or apprenticeship you apply for.I don't know about other countries, but in the UK there are degree level apprenticeships and it is possible to do a non-degree level apprenticeship and top it up to a full degree later, by studying full or part-time.In my case I did an apprenticeship, got an HND (Higher National Diploma) which I could theoretically top up to a degree level by studying for a few years on a part time basis but have no motivation to do so. I don't like the idea of travelling for half an hour too and fro, to the next town to college, for a night a week or having to do lots off assignments and coursework. There's no financial incentive, because although I could get a higher paid job, my current job is fine and pays the bills.Of course I'm not discouraging anyone starting out from going to university but I'd say the apprenticeship route is often understated.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 09:53:24 am
content: Qualifications, per se, don't get you a job - let alone a good interesting job.Skill gets you a good interesting job; agoodcourse can help you gain skills and learn how to gain skills.Lack of qualifications can lock you out of jobs; probably more so in the future with CVs assessed by non-human robots.Your question is a bit like asking "what jobs can nurses get vs fully qualified doctors?".

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 10:28:30 am
content: First up, Electrician != Electronics Technician,Electricians main job unless they are specialized is wire jerking, Fitting out of panels, switches, etc and plumbing conduit, Its mainly a physical labor role, rather than a technical thinking role.The apprenticeship that would fall closer to your interests would be "Instrumentation and Control Systems", sometimes nicknamed an "Instro"A university course will teach you almost entirely theory, and calculations, If this is more in line with what areas you want to work in, then problem solved.An apprenticeship, Its generally very hands on, seeing where things go wrong, and learning why those rules of thumb are in place. I assume your country has trade schools, These will generally cover lets say 70% of the university content, but just in a way that never steps into calculus.I went trade school myself, so I hold a bias (Making money vs paying money in Aus), And was taken on by a small company that did repairs, and integration of various automotive systems, So I have drifted in the many hats role of PCB layout, code writing, onsite fitting, and component level repair.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 11:16:03 am
content: I can't give answers to the OP's question, since I am not fmailiar with the education options and job market in Canada. But I can try and restate his question, since all other posters seem to have struggled with it:The way I understand it, lordvader is dithering between two options: Electronics Technician vs. EE university degree.He explicitly states that he isnot interestedin a third option: Apprenticeship and working as an electrician.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 12:37:37 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on August 25, 2018, 10:28:30 amYou're right, it is more of a practical role, there's quite a lot of theory involved in being an electrician too. You'll have to know Ohm's law, all the wiring regulations, sizing cables, fuses and circuit breakers. There will also be some level of fault finding too.QuoteCourses vary widely. The HND course I studied did include quite a bit of calculus, but probably not quite as in depth as degree level. Things that the course I studied missed, which are probably found in most degree courses are the internal workings of things like op-amps i.e. current mirrors and differential pairs and in-depth BJT models. Fortunately I already knew enough background, to teach myself about the bits I was interested in or need for work.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 02:21:23 pm
content: I can only reply to how it is in the US, since I went through the Electronics Technician course at college. The ET course is entirely different than the EE course and if you finish ET and decide to go on to EE, most courses will not transition. The ET course teaches basic electronics and basic algebra regarding electronic calculations. The idea for ET is to be able to recognize components, understand their function and to be able to make basic tests and calculations to see if components are working in the circuit. The other half is hands on assembly and basic design and understanding of items like PCBs, wires, connectors and other misc components. A very basic physics knowledge is given in the ET course along with some very basic materials science.EE, on the other hand, is less hands on, but very focused on mathematics in the form of calculus and gets very deep into theory and analysis. There are labs, but the labs are generally setup to analyse theoretical ideas regarding electronics. ET only goes a little past ohm's law, Kirchoff, and node analysis, where EE goes into Faraday, Maxwell, and even Tesla's theorems. Mathematical analysis is paramount in the form of Fourier Transforms, FEA, and can go as far as Mandelbrot forms.MIT's Professor Lewin (now retired) is one of my favorite EE professors.Just my 2 cents...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 02:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on August 25, 2018, 08:25:35 amEE means "engineer". Engineers usually work in a team, and depending on their inclinations, would typically progress to having more and more responsibility for making project decisions. As part of that role they will tend to manage people, schedules, costs and designs. They will interact with customers and leaders within their own organization. They may spend time travelling, or visiting and working on project sites. They will become responsible for delivering working solutions on time and on budget. In many cases engineers have risen to the level of CEO.Technicians may get to do some of these things, but it is a less obvious career path for them. As the name suggests, technicians are likely to spend more time on the technical side of thing doing individual work and less time on the management side of things doing project work.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 25, 2018, 02:41:22 pmAgreed on this point. As for having been an ET for some time, my only upwards possibilities was to perhaps become a technician supervisor in my later career, if that was my interest. However, as an engineer, all of IanB's thoughts are possible, not that I want to move up to that level at all. As an ET, it is very unlikely that you will have these opportunities.I also wanted to emphasize that if you simply want to be an ET, there is honor in that job as well. It really irks me when someone says 'only' a technician or only a worker of any kind, as if that particular job is for stupid or less worthy individuals. Once you are a well experienced ET, you can often put to shame many engineers with your practical approaches to solving problems. It all depends on what makes you tick, becoming very good at what you do is what defines your character. I was often the brunt of some engineers snobbish attempts at making my job look petty and whenever the situation came down to the brass tacks, many engineers had to eat a little bit of crow in order to gain my respect.Now, as an engineer, I value the technicians input and give respect where respect is due. For all of you EE graduates out there that look down your nose at those that are technicians and workers, this will bite you at some point and I can only give the advice that you should not judge unless you find reason to not trust an individuals abilities.Just my 2 cents...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on August 25, 2018, 08:25:35 amDepends on your country. Some are very strict on what qualifications you need. here in oz, qualifications almost don't matter, if you are good enough you get almost any engineering level job. Exceptions are often government departments and regulated/fearful industries like medical device companies.QuoteDegree is usually 4 years, Diploma 3 years, Certificate types courses 2 or 3 years.QuoteIf you can afford the time, do the degree then.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 25, 2018, 11:16:03 amThere are actually three levels according to the various accreditation bodies. Electronics Technician (2 year qualification generally), Electronics Engineering Associate (3 year Diploma), and Electronics Engineer (4 year degree). Generally, you need at least a 3 year Diploma to join the various engineering associations (or in many cases equivalent work experience at the associate or engineeering level).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:38:52 pm
content: Well, my career hit all of the OPs points. I didn't do a formal apprenticeship in Electrical but I managed to pass the Journeyman exam. My father had taught me the trade. As he said "I'll teach you all you'll ever know about the trade but I won't teach you all I know!".I went to work in Aerospace as an Industrial Electrician (as opposed to, say, Aircraft Electrician) and I got involved with installing massive numerical controlled machines. I like doing control work and I was pretty good at it. What I didn't understand is how these huge machines with multiple hundred horsepower of cutting heads could be controlled by an 8 channel punched shape. So I went to college at night and finished in 4 years (not quite as easy as it sounds!). Somewhere around the second year, I understood how the electronics worked.So, I had a degree in electronics but my background was and still is electrical. So I went to work designing facilities including computing facilities and, later, semiconductor facilities including an overseas stint. Along the way I wandered through grad school (again, at night). I designed, built and managed facilities throughout my career, never once working in electronics.Electronics is interesting but electrical put groceries on the table. My father made sure his two sons would be able to support themselves.The point is, it is impossible to know which path a person will take. I could have gotten into electronics although, to be honest, it never really interested me enough to want to sit at a desk and design circuits. I wanted to go out and play. My career allowed me to be out of the office more often than not. I had projects to run!Today you can count on 5 years to get an EE and another year or two to get an MS (if desired). That's taking a pretty heavy load if done in only 2 semesters per year (about 15 units per semester) and skipping summer school. It also assumes a person is ready to take Calculus I their very first semester and most aren't (the OP being an exception). IIn the US, there is a divide between hourly labor (for which you get fair treatment and overtime) and salary labor (for which you have few protections and are expected to work for free). Technician work is hourly, engineering is salary. Everybody wants to be a salary employee right up until they get there. Then they realize what a mistake they made!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:44:42 pm
content: I don't know about other countries but in the US a technician title is going to pay substantially less than an engineer title in almost all cases. It's significant, like the engineer will earn twice as much or more despite the technician potentially having much of the same knowledge and more hands on experience. Technician is pretty much a dead end, which I think is unfortunate since some of the most interesting and well rounded technical people I've met were technicians.

author: anishkgt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:49:19 pm
content: I always wanted to be into Electronics but had no clue as to what it was called. During my days in college in India. There were not much specific electronics course so finally i did a Diploma in Electronics and Communication. That did not help me very well to follow my career path as a Electronics Design Engineer. Now at 34 i knew it was EDE that i wanted to become. In college i had no clue about what was being taught, not much real world practical. Just enough to prove theories and related to them.Now i work in IT industry as Tech Support with VCA-DCV and CCNA certifications. but during my off time if am not with my familythen am with Arduino projects. Math was not a subject for me, i was below average at high school. C coding, to a certain extend is interesting but gets boring when diving deeper like hex and bit banging.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:54:17 pm
content: Hex is very simple and intuitive, counting in hex is just like counting in decimal except it's base 16 instead of base 10.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 03:58:47 pm
content: Technician Payhttps://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineering-technicians.htmEngineer Payhttps://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htmYou can see the difference between $64k and $98k but that doesn't tell the whole story. These numbers are US median pay and don't account for regional differences and certainly don't account for specialization in engineering. Around Silicon Valley, you can expect engineering wages in the $150k range.You can take either of these pages and drill down for additional information. You can also search for various specialties in engineering.I don't know anything about a technician program but I'm assuming they take about two years. The Associate of Science in Electrical Engineering (ASEE) takes two years if the student is ready for Calculus I the first day. Few are and, as a result, they spend an additional year taking Pre-Calc. So, call it 3 years for the ASEE. Then another two years for the BSEE - total 5 years. Then add 1 or 2 years for MSEE.Basically engineering takes 5 years, technician takes 2 (I guess).After all the time I spent in school, you would think I would like engineering. But I don't! Drafting board engineering is boring! Even if you replace the drafting board with CAD, it's still boring. I want to go out and play and my background in electrical got me into Project Engineering and Project Management where I could go outside and build things. I BOUGHT engineering, I didn't DO engineering. I gave the engineers the criteria and they drew up the plans. Then I brought in the contractors and we got to go out and play. I wouldn't change a thing!And I have been comfortably retired for nearly 15 years! Not a bad career, all in all!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 04:12:16 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 25, 2018, 03:58:47 pmIt also doesn't take into account other benefits such as company car and overtime. Quite often technicians get paid more than engineers, because they're on call, get more/better overtime rates than engineers, as they're often expected to go out and fix things. I've encountered technicians in some companies who were on a heck of a lot more, than the engineers who designed the machinery they maintain.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 05:18:38 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 25, 2018, 04:12:16 pmQuite right! Of course, engineers may be getting stock options. There's a ton of money in those things if the company valuation increases. I suppose they could be pushed down to the technician level but I am not aware of it happening where I worked.In Silicon Valley, stock options are where everybody working for Facebook when it went public suddenly became multi-millionaires. Even the secretaries! Why so many people with options? Because the company didn't have the money to make a large payroll in the early days. It's fairly common with startups to trade off salary for options. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 05:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on August 25, 2018, 08:25:35 amIn Netherlands the comparable thing to technician (MBO) is usually a practical orientated program. At the entry level, it starts with reading schematics, wiring up switch boxes and automation gear, etc. At intermediate level also some electronics repair and sometimes (PCB) design can get involved. However for design jobs, most people will find that a technician degree falls short here. I think most technicians end up in the field or workshop for production and field support purposes.We usually want (fully) qualified engineers, i.e. Electrical/Electronics Engineers usually have a bachelor degree. It goes a lot more into math, circuit analysis and design. Some practical skills required, but it's not the primary judging criteria.You could also go on for a masters, but often not necessary depending what you do. In high-tech, it's often asked by HR so could be an "easy" way to get your foot in the door. In some industries, it's nice to get a more mathematical background, if you like doing that and need to use it. Personally I would only go for a masters if you lean more towards research than actual design work.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 07:02:25 pm
content: The MS degree differentiates the holder from the masses of BSs - it counts! More important to me is the fact that the MS program is more of a smorgasbord. In the undergraduate years you have little choice in the classes you take. When you get to the postgraduate level, you can focus on what interests you. Grad school was a lot more fun than undergrad.Some companies take the paperwork very seriously. How far you can climb the ladder is somehow a function of you education. It's silly, but that's the way it goes!None of this applies to the outliers - folks that are so smart that paperwork is redundant. You would think that these folks would have a hard time getting an interview. No, they are known in the industry and companies will knock themselves out recruiting them. But there are just a few of them.Within Silicon Valley, as big as it is, the stars are well known throughout the valley. They can get a new job by turning in the wrong driveway one morning. You can kind of calculate your star power by how many headhunter calls you get each day. Even the headhunters know the stars.If grad school is affordable in terms of time and money, it is well worth attending. Oftentimes a person is totally fried from undergrad and just doesn't want to get back into the grind. I can certainly see how that could happen. I had a couple of years off between the programs to get my head back on straight.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 08:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 25, 2018, 07:02:25 pmIt isn'tentirelysilly. It is a reasonablestartiing pointfor predicting the future.It becomes unreasonable when it is theonlyroute and/or is used in a mechanistic way to the exclusion of other non-standard criteria. Unfortunately HR droids tend to be less than intelligent and more than usually interested in armour-plating their back against criticism.Analogy: while I would prefer my dressing/plaster casts to be seen to by a nurse rather than a doctor, I want any complex diagnosis and treatment to be done by a doctor.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 09:22:03 am
content: I would like to work on a Star Ship like on Star Trek or Star Wars as an ET, like Chief Engineer O'Brien (but he was Mr.-Fix-it so ET)Or work on secret projects as an engineer, like designing and overseeing the DEATH STAR.I don't have any real formal career training for anything, so I've just worked labor jobs, trades.If I did an ET course it would be a step up from anything I've done. It would be a LOT cheaper and quicker than EE.IDK I should go down to the colleges and university and ask around about what's available and how it is here job-wise after completion.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 09:27:59 am
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on August 26, 2018, 09:22:03 amJoin the navy.I want to design something that will end hunger.It is trivially easy to choose worthy goals. Those that achieve something have selectedachievablegoals.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 09:32:56 am
content: There's a bunch of cool stuff in the military that would be more fun to work on IMO, but I'm getting too old for BT and all that crap. Plus I'm against imperial wars for bankers.The Forces tho, would be great way to get an education/experience on cooler stuff than a cable repair guy for sure.Maybe in 1 of my next lives.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 04:29:19 pm
content: If you're not opposed to spending significant stretches away from home you could look into being a ship engineer. That's what Star Trek's Scotty, Obrian, etc are modeled after. I think it would be an interesting job, but by nature you spend most of your time out to sea on the vessel which is incompatible with my lifestyle. Other than that it would be a good fit for my jack of all trades abilities.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 06:26:41 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on August 26, 2018, 09:22:03 amI wonder if you might be better off thinking in terms of IT specialist - maybe on the networking end of the business. I don't suspect it is much fun showing ESUs (Extremely Stupid Users) how to poke the right keys so I would avoid that end.In any event, ET is a good start but you really need to do your homework on job opportunities in any field you select. In the US, we have bls.gov. This is not the be-all, end-all of job statistics but it is a guide. There's no point in heading into a field where employment growth is low. If the anticipated growth is high the odds of being included are also high.According to bls.gov, Electronic Technician has few jobs and low growth (2% over 10 years). I would have to think about this. It doesn't look promising.Part of the problem with lower level jobs is that they are easy to outsource. So, they're gone and they're not coming back. You should try to find a field where you need to put your hands on the product - those can't be outsourced. That's why networking is a possible field. The wire exists within a building and can't be connected in India. Pulling the wire isn't the goal, configuring the network is.

author: AE7OO
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2018, 11:15:07 am
content: I started out in the US Navy(back in the 80's) as an ET. I then went on to get both a AS and BS in Electronics Technology(They no longer offer the BS). The only real difference from my point of view was the EE track had much more advanced math in it. Now mind you, I was lucky to receive a fair amount of credit hours from my Navy training (Side track, here a couple of years ago I wanted to see how credit hours I had received(I lost those transcripts long ago) and was amazed at how little modern Navy training was worth unless you were like a nuc or something) so was able to bypass almost all of the "practical" stuff and concentrate on the design/engineering classes.My first major job was working as a R&D ET, side by side with an EE. He was supposed to design it and I was supposed to build it. I think I spent most of my time telling him his design would not work the way he thought it would(he was also only a couple of years out of school). We ended up co-designing the sensors(part of oil research).Since then I've worked pretty much as a ET/EE; I can only recall only 2 or 3 times where a company would demand that I would have be an "Engineer" to do the work, even though I had a track record of creating the same or similar product. I happily bypassed those places, since it was obvious they were cribbing the requirements out of some book.What I'm trying to say is that I've really never found the fact I don't have a "Engineering" degree to be a problem.EXCEPT that I could not become a PE in Texas, even though there zero doubt in my mind I could have passed any of the tests, and already had another PE willing to sit on me. It's not like I was going to design a freeway overpass or anything. Bigots, all of them....