Another Oscilloscope thread - Agilent MSOX204A vs Rigol DS4024 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MrRedHat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 02:31:38 am
content: I’m trying to figure out which scope to buy. I would rather spend more now to get something better, than buy something cheap and have to buy it all over again in the future. My budget is $3,000.I have it narrowed down to either the Agilent MSOX2024A as a Certified Prime for approximately $2,344+$270(vga)+$205 (memory upgrade) or the Rigol DS4024 new for $2725, so they’re almost the same price.I think the Rigol DS4024 has slightly better specs, but the Agilent has the MSO features, and while I don’t use them now, I can see myself using them in the future.I don’t currently see any of the MSOX204A’s on eBay, but there has been two of them for the past few days and they seem to go pretty quick at that price.So which one would you guys choose?

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:48:38 am
content: You can get them (the Agilent) cheaper if you're willing to wait. They fix the price at 2344 only when they have one in stock. If they have more than one they offer a "best offer" option which you can many times get them to go down below $2000.Patience is a virtue.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 09:49:45 am
content: You also have the new Rigol MSO4024 but I don't know how much more it cost.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 11:09:51 am
content: Quote from: KedasProbe on July 04, 2013, 09:49:45 amyeah, I'm currently waiting on these to hit the States as well. Hopefully within a month they'll start showing up.

author: MrRedHat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:13:39 pm
content: Bummer, I guess I’ll just have to wait. Patience isn’t one of my virtues.I was under the impression that the MSO4024’s wouldn’t be out until 4th quarter of this year. If it’s a month, I’m definitely better off waiting because it’ll take a month for the DSO4024 to get here.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:18:36 pm
content: I was told by Rigol a couple months on May 16th, I'm foolishly being optimistic, you know how these things go...

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:48:03 pm
content: These scopes are just so different. I would never buy Rigol, but the DS4000 has that impressive 140MB memory and a nice segmented memory with dedicated buttons. It has a powerful hardware. Have you seen this?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 04:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 04, 2013, 03:59:25 pmBecause they want to maintain the maximal waveform update rate always... Well, it is weird. Most scopes allow you to set the memory length. Agilent doesn't.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 05:37:47 pm
content: The memory is limited because it's built into an ASIC and will be SRAM, which occupies a lot of die area. It's expensive.On the Rigol it's commodity DDR DRAM memory attached to an FPGA, so it has nowhere near the same bandwidth but it's much cheaper.I regularly use both a Rigol DS4000 and an Agilent 3000X, and I've discussed the differences between the two at length in previous posts. Do a search on my userid.

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 06:52:18 pm
content: Guys he is asking abt Agilent MSOX204A vs Rigol DS4024. You are talking about your 3000x and Rigol DS4000....

author: MrRedHat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2013, 01:46:59 pm
content: I would really like to get an Agilent, so I’ve been watching eBay and also getting quotes for them new.This morning I saw a MSOX204A on eBay from Agilentused for $2344 and it was sold within about three minutes. I got the e-mail, went to the link to look at it, and as I was reading the description they sold it. They must be really popular.I got some quotes on the MSOX3014A and I’m seeing about $4679+options, which is basically twice the price as the MSOX204A and 100MHz.I would buy the MSOX3014A, but I’m worried that in a year there will be something way better out and I’ll be like, oh, I should have bought that. If it lasts for five or six years, it’s costing me roughly $83/mo. I can deal with that.

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2013, 04:05:04 pm
content: It would be nice if those DSO5054 scopes they have for $4K that are fully optioned (like $10,000 in options) were certi-prime instead of used. 8MB of memory, 500Mhz, 4 channel, XGA display....but 7 day warranty and huge repair cost if they break makes it a no deal.

author: jmole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2013, 03:25:35 am
content: I got my MSOX2024A for $1900 on the agilentused ebay store via best offer. Can't beat a 5 yr warranty.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2013, 04:12:56 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 04, 2013, 03:59:25 pmIt's because the memory is integrated into the main acquisition ASIC. Rigol use an off-the-shelf solution which affords them more memory.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2013, 06:44:36 am
content: Quote from: KTP on July 09, 2013, 04:05:04 pmWell, $4K does seem a bit much for the home lab without any warranty, not to mention the model will be out of support by March 1st, 2018 in any case.Another potential deal breaker for some might be the lack of an 'intelligent' search function in the sample memory of the DSO5054A. As far as I have been able to figure out, then all you can do with those 8M worth of sample points is panning and zooming, that seems to it...

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2013, 08:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: jmole on July 10, 2013, 03:25:35 amYep, got mine for $1849 and they threw in the VGA/LAN module for $170. Cant beat that at all! Plus they still have the buy one get one free promotion going on for the upgrades. I got the memory expansion and segmented memory for $310.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 04:49:05 am
content: Hey Guys,Sorry to dredge up an old topic. Reason is I'm still looking at scopes to replace my failed Tek, and Tequipment is offering the DS4000 series with free option bundles and bandwidth upgrades, plus this topic has the most info on the DS4000 series scopes I could find.I'm wondering since this series seems quite old if we should expect an upgraded model soon? I was considering the DS4024, which would end up being a loaded 350 MHz scope with the freebies...Since I'm getting close to the three grand mark, is there something I'm missing? I also wanted to clarify that none of the Rigol's will decode from memory? And, does this scope offer anything all that more significant over the 1000Z other than BW and memory (is it really 8x the scope)?Thanks

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 11:57:38 am
content: There are a few threads about the DS4000; I mention my opinion atthis other threadand still think it is current.If you are in the United States, did you checkRigol's clearance bin? I have bought mine DS4014 from there and found a really great deal.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 02:38:47 pm
content: Thanks. I read your reply and the one point that stands out (about Rigol lagging as you approach $3k) is where I was...Irony is that the OP apparently has a broken Tek 2213. I have one of those and a 2430A (broken).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 02:46:37 pm
content: What are you looking for in a scope and why is the DS4024 appealing to you?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 05:44:42 pm
content: The DS4000 series is appealing over the DS1054Z simply due to the significantly increased bandwidth, plus the independent channel controls, greater resolution/display intensity grading. A DS2000 model would be nice for the lower noise front end (but that is not likely essential), and it’s not 4 channel. While I think all these scopes are hackable, there is an aspect of getting all the options and increased bandwidth overboard… The DS4014 is very close in price to the upgraded DS4024, which in this price category is very appealing.Applications in RF/microwave designs, digital modulation and data transmission (packet, burst, serial), motion control systems (optical and other), timing events such as TDOA, power monitoring, signal integrity and circuit response. I will likely create custom test applications for remote interface, although long record length and analysis is desired, which is why I’m interested to know how the Rigol series scopes handle captured data. I think I’ve determined that digital decode is not available outside the current active display on any Rigol model, but not sure about other analysis and math functions.Some of the application requirements exceed anything I could afford to buy, so will address that on an as-needed basis (rent/borrow). What is interesting and why I think these kinds of threads keep coming up is that now technology has brought capabilities to many users that historically could never consider due to cost, but I think we recognize that in this price category there are compromises, some significant and others not. For example, if I am looking at the DS1054Z math issue correctly, the scope is not able to simply add two trace patterns correctly (on some models?) This really makes me second guess Rigol and look for an A tier alternative, which really do not seem affordable, yet.Thanks

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 06:09:40 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 02, 2016, 05:44:42 pmYou know that there is the 2nd hand market? I'd take a 2nd hand big brand scope over a Rigol (or Siglent) any day.Also, when I look at your application list...Quote.. you very likely don't want a entry-level scope anyways, but something which offers proper analysis capabilities. And you won't find that with Rigol (or any other B-brand).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 06:17:01 pm
content: @metrologist: if you are looking for analysis and decoding then IMHO the only choice in the low cost brands would be the GDS2000E series from GW Instek. It is a pretty neat package with lots of math features. A step-up from there would be Lecroy's Wavesurfer 3000 series (which has a free decoding + function generator bundle offer until the end of next month).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 09:24:12 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 02, 2016, 02:38:47 pmIf you are not bothered by used gear, checkthis oneout... Or, if you can shell out a bit more than $3k... Checkthisout.Obviously that reaching that level of specs with brand-new A-brand is impossible at the $3k range.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2016, 10:07:11 pm
content: Thanks All for the positive feedback. Fortunately I am not in a rush and will do some more research and keep an eye on the used market. Those LeCroy models are inspiring.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 05:40:00 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 02, 2016, 09:24:12 pmHm, that second one is an old WavePro 960. Good and reliable scopes, but very old and they don't do serial decode (and this one is quite expensive, too).I'd look for a WaveRunner 6000(A) Series, i.e. a WR6050A (500MHz 4ch 5GSa/s) which with some patience can be found for around $2.5k. With some luck you can even find a WavePro 7100 (1GHz 4ch 20GSa/s) for around $3.5k.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 06:26:37 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 02, 2016, 05:44:42 pmThe digital decode works as you step through the captured segmented memory. So you setup a trigger to capture one packet in each segment, and then flick through them using the jog wheel. For a while there was a myth perpetuating that the DS4k did not have segmented memory, so be wary of older posts on the topic.The DS4k does have both normal math and expression based maths.The downsides - FFT is pretty poor compared to other scopes. Captured data can be searched using a 'template' only - not the more advanced search function in other scopes.

author: trukresom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 07:43:18 am
content: QuoteYes, I agree totally with this. This FFT function is completely useless. FortunatelyI have a DSA815I am owner of a DG1062Z, DG4162, DM3068, DSA815-TG and a DS4054. The scopewas the most expensive of these 5 instruments but also the worst investment.The buttons [STOP/RUN] and  don't work anymore. Sometimes the sensitivityand the timebase knobs don't work during a quarter hour after starting the instrument.But what really gets on my nerves is the noise of this machine; not the fan noisebut the trace noise. The picture was taken with all channels terminated with 50 OhmsBandwidth limit 1: none 2: 200MHz 3: 100 MHz 4: 20MHz. Also note the differentDC offsets on the 4 channels.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2016, 09:00:55 am
content: The buttons not working sucks. Did you try contacting them about it?Are you comparing the noise with other scopes of similar bandwidth? I didn't think it was too bad.I get similar traces to you btw - About 2.7mV p-p noise and about -0.36uV offset on the worst channel.