I don't think this is a good idea... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 05:36:10 pm
content: For other than twisting multiple wires together, but not as tightly as shown, I don't like this for multiple reasons. I think this video deserves multiple comments warning against this so the channel's 212,979 subscribers don't end up with large number of open and intermittent open circuits over time. The guy doesn't even differentiate between use on stranded vs solid wire.How to Straighten A Wire Using A Drill!

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 07:17:06 pm
content: This is useful for stiff wires like coat hanger wire when used for crafts. He never said this should be used for electronics. I'm one of his subscribers and he has never done an electronics video to my knowledge.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 08:58:14 pm
content: That's a neat trick and I can see using it in some (non electrical) situations. I do wonder what it does to the wires ductility.I agree, he needs a strong disclaimer at the start of the video not to use it for electrical wire.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:07:56 pm
content: Why would someone use it for electrical wire in the first place? How often does it matter if an electrical wire is perfectly straight? Are you worried the electrons will get lost if they can't see the other end?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 24, 2017, 09:07:56 pmThe situation I can imagine is wanting to thread a stiff, straight wire through a tight fit in conduit or indoors home wiring. But no, not for electronics.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:14:29 pm
content: Use a fish tape to pull wire through conduit. If the fit is too tight, the conduit is too small. There are code requirements on the number and size of conductors in a given size conduit.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:19:49 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 24, 2017, 09:07:56 pmIt can affect the wire's directionality.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:24:32 pm
content: It fubars the wire. You can see the helical striations on its surface. Its now more vulnerable to fatigue and corrosion damage.OTOH a similar process of stretching tinned or bare copper wire (*NOT* enamelled), or plastic insulated single solid core wire, by pulling on it with one end held in a vice and the other with molegrips, *WITHOUT* twisting it is effective if you need straight wire for electrical/electronic use (e.g. if building a LED cube). As long as you only stretch to the yield point, the result is typically uniform, with minimal decrease in diameter.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:27:41 pm
content: Another similar trick is to pull a long wire so long that it brokes down. End result is a straight wire in the surface it did fell to, some old early 20th century books do give this as a way to construct a coil cores from iron wire stacks.Ian.M were a quicker.Edit. Ie. for Ruhmkorff coil, which lead to think tesla coil and its modern hype.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:51:07 pm
content: It's a fairly good way to straighten a bent whip antenna.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 24, 2017, 09:14:29 pmWell of course!I didn't say it was the best way to do it, only that those are situations where one might do it. Noy everyone owns a fish tape but most people have a vise and drill.Anyone who owns a fish tape or even knows what one is, is hopefully smart enough not to use this method on an electrical wire.The disclaimer is needed for those not that smart...

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:00:41 pm
content: The disclaimers are an american idiocy, which is unfortunately speading all over the world. Born from the court case factoring industry.This coffee cup might contain hot liquid.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on February 24, 2017, 10:00:41 pmI wish I could claim nationalist pride and be angry at that comment, but sadly, you are correct.I don't think he is from the U.S., however.This is one of those things that if you don't know better, you either learn or repeat your stupidity. If you can read a disclaimer, chances are you don't need one.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:08:50 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 24, 2017, 10:05:06 pmWell, don't fall to depression, every nation have their own quirks.Although I must admit that for average Joe it might not get to head that it is a bad thing to electrical wire to twist it like that, but in general the disclaimer list need to have as many lines as can be found on wikipedia.org and even then it is far from complete.Sorry also for mtdoc for my outburst I know you sincerely conserned for someones wellbeing, I just been irritated a lot of these disclaimer lately.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on February 24, 2017, 10:08:50 pmI don't think this falls into the category of "quirk". It is a national embarrassment.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:25:38 pm
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 24, 2017, 10:10:22 pmTake it as a more severe quirk.. If that turns it any better.This post might contain a small amount of irony. I had to...

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:33:32 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on February 24, 2017, 10:08:50 pmNo worries. I don't disagree with you that disclaimers are often overused and overdone.But IMHO in this case a simple "Don't do this with electrical wire" would not be one of those cases.After all, I believe the OP is a forum member who did not recognize that this was not meant to be applied to electrical wires.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on February 24, 2017, 10:00:41 pmYeah, silly warnings of the obvious are one thing. ("Do not use toaster in bathtub.")OTOH, banning lead from solder (effectively worldwide) based on dodgy and dubious anecdotal data has real economic impact to all of us. But that didn't stop the technically-clueless bureaucrats from the EU from foisting RoHS on us all.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 24, 2017, 10:35:24 pmWell that falls to the "every nation have their own quirks" ... unfortunately. The RoHS is on of the more down to earth directives or directive proposals the Bryssel bureaucrats have done. Unfortunately it is the place where most of (luckily there is also some good ones) the failed politicians escape atleast from my country, while it should be the place where only the sharpest and most intelligent ones are send.Edit. That said, it is good to went at times. You know like in marriage, would get much more positive influence on corporates also (referring to the tread of the bullshit group growth topic) to arrange a good roasts at times than listening the consult droids. You droid that reads this, send me my 3%

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:40:27 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on February 24, 2017, 10:00:41 pmUgh, I wish people would look up the McDonald's Coffee Cup case before trotting it out as an example of our litigious society... It's not!In that particular instance, there were a large number of factors which led to that particular accident. In particular, they had the coffee machine set incorrectly, to the point the water was *near boiling* when it came out of the machine. The lid was not snapped firmly onto the cup, either.So, the woman was handed a cup of almost boiling liquid, the lid immediately popped off and it spilt all over her lap. It was so hot, in fact, it *fused* her labia together! So, yeah, you're damn right she sued. I would have too. She required multiple, painful surgeries and skin grafts, all due to the incompetence of McDonald's employees!Yes, we all expect coffee to be hot. We don't expect it to be scalding or to leave second degree burns.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:46:18 pm
content: I blame the lawyers for those things. Most of the silly warnings occurred because some idiot found a way to hurt themselves and sued.I ate a package of peanuts earlier that had a warning that it "May contain nuts". Well I certainly hope the package contains nuts, otherwise I want my money back.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 06:53:50 am
content: Quote from: timb onYesterdayat 05:40:27 PMI am well aware of the facts of the case and I'm glad she won. I'm also surprised that McDonald's chose to place a warning on the cup instead of fixing the underlying issue. Still, these insipid warnings on everything are a direct result of our litigious society. They are there so that when the company gets sued (not if!), the lawyers can argue that the plaintiff knew or should have known of the danger. It's a legal shield.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 07:30:46 am
content: I think she should have won a refund, apology and perhaps medical expenses, not millions of dollars. The lid not being on properly was a mistake made by somebody who probably earned minimum wage working their crappy job. The coffee was very hot, coffee is supposed to be very hot, I'd expect it to be as close to boiling as it could possibly be, which is why one should always be extremely careful when holding a cup of hot coffee.I do not envy her experience, but shit happens, people get seriously injured all the time. Everybody tries to cash in on it these days, and you get these ludicrous cases where all sorts of parties get named in the lawsuit even if they obviously had nothing to do with the incident.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 07:47:57 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 25, 2017, 07:30:46 amIt was discovered that the restaurant had turned up the temperature of the coffee dispenser significantly higher than the "normal and recommended" temperature. This was apparently a practice used by some restaurants to create more "coffee aroma" to boost sales. It was specifically because of the abnormally high (and dangerous) temperature that people attribute to the reason the plaintiff was successful in that legal case. And the reason for the significant monetary award.I typically agree that these kinds of awards are unjustified and largely created by "ambulance chaser" hoards of unscrupulous lawyers. But there are SOME cases (like this one) that appear to be justified when you study the facts.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 07:48:31 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 24, 2017, 11:40:27 pmLook at the case again. The running the coffee maker too hot part of it was not employee incompetence. It was corporate policy and there were previous issues raised with that.Quote from: james_s on February 24, 2017, 11:46:18 pmThen you better go and get your money backright now. Peanuts are NOT nuts. They are legumes and it perfectly possible to be allergic to peanuts but not nuts or nuts but not peanuts. So a pack of peanuts should not contain any actual nuts but may do so as the processing and packaging plants run it all on the same machines and the cleaning is not always ideal.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 09:57:31 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 25, 2017, 07:47:57 amI can't find it now but read a few articles on it again and the facts are getting a bit distorted (several articles I found were recent). Anyway, I read a long while back that the real reason was not the temperature, but the cups. I read that the volume of complaints were more related to cup integrity, just structural. There were documents indicating there was a problem with the glued joint of the bottom of the cup, and that the foam was too thin/flimsy. They key point was during discovery executive memos found about the glue problem and management's callous dismissal based entirely on the rate of people affected and cost analysis of fixing the problem vs just paying out the kind of claims they initially offered ($800). So McD had a documented strategy of how they planned to mitigate this issue. But maybe that article did not have all the right facts either...I've watched a few of this guys videos and I've seen this one before, did not consider this for electric wires. I do not think a warning here is really necessary, but perhaps some welding videos should have a warning about not soldering circuit boards with a welder.

author: Winston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 05:24:15 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 24, 2017, 10:33:32 pmYes, the first closeup of the single wire looked like it was a solid wire with brown insulation, but on a second look it isn't. That incorrect impression that he was doing this to electrical wire was reinforced by his later twist bundling of several of them, something which is actually the very handy way that I have twisted electrical wires together, but not as tightly as he did.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 04:28:04 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 25, 2017, 07:30:46 amShe only sued for medical expenses, it was a jury that awarded her millions due to facts that came out during the case (namely that McDonalds had been turning the coffee machines heat well above safe standards and problems with the design of the cup). Turns out, other people had been burnt before her (enough to require minor medical treatment).So, they knew it was a problem and intentionally ignored it. Keep in mind also that the woman didn't actually get millions of dollars; a judge slashed the jury award down significantly.Finally, the "CAUTION: HOT" warning was *already* on the cups well before this incident. In fact, it's been on the cups since they switched from styrofoam to paper in the early 90's!

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 04:54:03 pm
content: OK, that coffee cup case had merit. Although there is still dispute about what the appropriate and safe temperatures for delivery of coffee are. Some want it delivered very hot so that it will be drinkable when they reach their destination. Others have a low tolerance for hot liquids and want to drink it immediately.Many of the warnings don't.I love the California one. This store may contain chemicals known to cause cancer. Or the related one, also California related, that causes wood to be labeled as containing chemicals known to cause cancer. Not treated wood, just plain kiln dried timber. Which has residues of creosote, turpentine and other horrible things. I am waiting for a sign a the National Parks entrances letting you know that the wonderful smell is caused by volatile hydrocarbons with known carcinogenic properties. Danger, do not go to Lake Tahoe, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, Yosemite, Muir Woods or any of those other dangerous places.This nonsense is not uniquely from the US. I will repeat over and over the RFP received once from a European nation for a piece of electronic gear. Required that it be certified to contain no hazardous materials including Lead, Cadmium, Chromium and COPPER! I suppose they wanted the whole thing made with silver and gold, along with assurance that there was no Silver Nitrate residue.