Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 07:10:24 pm
content: Self

author: fake-name
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 07:59:56 pm
content: It's going to be enormously power hungry, and not very efficient. There's no way in hell they'll get anywhere near enough power from that little tiny solar panel and battery to run the peltier.Making that a mobile device is just basically idiotic, and if it's going to be a stationary device, a more efficent refrigeration system is a much better idea.Furthermore, the diagram is just silly. What the fuck is a "volt amplifier"? The hot side heatsink is waaaaay too small (peltiers dissipate MUCH more energy then they remove from the cold side). Also, the heat-sink fins are all facing the wrong way for the supposed air-flow.------TL;DR it's designed by a industrial design person who doesn't know shit about any of the technologies they want to employ.If you wanna do it right (and absolutely insist on the whole mobile thing), hang the peltier hot-side heatsinks out of the silly casing, directly in the air-flow. Make sure they're at least 2X larger then the cold-side heatsink. Hook a generator to the bicycle drivechain to run the peltier. Throw away all the stupid swishy plastic mouldings.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 08:15:54 pm
content: What does "drinkable" mean anyway

author: _Andrew_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 09:10:15 pm
content: It is lightly that you could not permanently soley drink the water collected in this way. In all lightlyhood this water would be zero TDS (total devolved solids) so for longterm sole water source consumption it will need buffering with appropriate trace elements (eg rehydration salts). Zero TDS water may possibly also cause an imbalance in the mineral balance of your body though drawing off minerals to combine with the water molecules. The design is intended to be used fitted on a bicycle where you will be perspiring and already loosing eletrolights, so just drinking zero TDS water as well may be a double whammy.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 11:09:52 pm
content: Just sounds like they're trying to build a way too complex solution for a simple problem, that has a simple solution:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2016, 11:19:38 pm
content: If you ask an industrial designer to make an egg, they will come up with something that is the right size, shape and colour. The better ones will be a realistic weight.None of them will contain the white and the yolk.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:04:40 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on January 31, 2016, 08:15:54 pmNot ice and not steam. Probably also in the 0C to 40C range, although anything hotter can be allowed to cool. Sounds like they avoided the word most of us would be looking for - potable.

author: Melt-O-Tronic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:09:40 am
content: Thing is, when water is scarce, so are humidity and electricity in most cases. Looks like a poor solution to a non-existent problem.But more importantly:Blecchhhh.I wouldn't drink the water out of even a brand new dehumidifier without extensive filtration & sterilization.

author: Don Hills
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:25:32 am
content: He also ought to take a look at how well cheap Peltier based dehumidifiers work (not):

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:43:43 am
content: Looks like a great way to catch Legionnaire's Disease.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 02:43:57 am
content: Comments from the original article:QuoteQuoteSomeone else described it as "vaporware"

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 12:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b onTodayat 03:43:43You must breath contaminated water to catch Legionnaire's Disease. Drinking it wil not be enough.OTH, that system not only condenses pure water if you are not in a "clean" natural space.

author: DarkStar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2016, 10:04:00 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 01, 2016, 01:01:16 amIt's was very eye opening when I learned how our wastes (liquids and solids) are treated, filtered and returned to the water distribution system!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2016, 01:15:02 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 01, 2016, 01:01:16 amOld joke: Londoners drink water that has been filterd by seven pairs of kidneys.

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 04:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 01, 2016, 01:01:16 amThe oceans are filled with Dinosaur pee!

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 05:04:15 pm
content: Read the commentsFrom John Houldsworth:This device was originally in the press a year ago and the claims are still just as outrageous as they were then. This is pure fantasy!...To condense 0.5 litres an hour requires heat removal at the rate of 340W.Even optimistically allowing only 10 degC cooling to the dew point for a thermo-cooler COP of 3 still requires 113W of electrical power. This requires a solar panel area of at least 0.75 sq meter or 2 ft by 4ft !!! not the few square inches shown on this press release image.

author: Xenoamor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:44:59 pm
content: Perhaps the device can be engaged with the wheels when rolling down hills or something?Still. I doubt that will do near to anything

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:09:14 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 01, 2016, 01:01:16 amThis can be used to distill urine into water.

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 07:42:51 am
content: Its online since some dayshttps://igg.me/at/fontus/x/10280792Already over $180k.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 09:37:18 am
content: Condensate water in an airconditioner in a city is a blend. Mostly dilute nitric acid, nitrous acid, sulphuric acid, sulphurous acid, carbonic acid and a generous helping of particulate matter. Mostly lead oxide, iron oxide, small rubber particles, carbon nanotubes, buckyballs and graphene sheet pieces. A lot of skin fragments, and on top of all that if you live near the sea a nice dose of salt to go with it all.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 09:55:59 am
content: Nothing a kettle and good teabag won't fix!

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 10:30:36 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on April 10, 2016, 09:55:59 amHaha, forget that.This will do itwww.katadyn.com

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 03:03:55 pm
content: some fun math depending on their claim that they can condense 1L water in 150min if humidity is 99% at 46 deg C (picture).Latent heat of evaporation of water: 2270 kJ/kg=908 kJ/h = 252.2W + the fan in the Airo model + heat exchange pumpthis needs about 2 sq meter solar panelall at 100% efficiency

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 03:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on April 10, 2016, 09:37:18 amAny sources? I believe you, but I also enjoy gardening and the use of condensate in gardening seems to be a common question. I'd like to be able to quote more than some guy in some electronics forum.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 04:19:11 pm
content: Acids are from car exhaust, the nitric and nitrous acid is from diesel combustion in most cases, the sulphur is from both diesel and petrol combustion, as both contain sulphur in them. Carbonic acid from CO2 in the air. Particulates are rubber worn off tyres, lead as residual lead in unleaded fuel ( which does contain a little lead, as it was either made, stored or pumped through old piping which had leaded fuel in it, plus a minor amount from lead based solders in piping and metal piping). Carbon is from incomplete combustion, which makes that brew of carbon black containing this. Skin because most dust indoors is made up from skin particles, outdoors a part is from skin, but also paint particles, pollen, fibres from vegetation and such.

author: rpannen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 10, 2016, 04:40:40 pm
content: There's also the energy that's needed to cool down the air to below the dew point.For a realistic climate like 30°C, 75% rel. humidity you need to cool it down by 15° to harvest a significant amount of water.30°C air at 75° rel. humidity holds 23g of water per m^3.15°C air at full saturation holds 13g of water per m^3.So you need to cool down 100m^3 of air by 15° to get 1l of water!100m^3 of air have a weight of 116.5kg at 30° and standard pressure. Cooling down 116.5kg of air by 15° requires about 1800kJ. That plus the latent heat released by the condensation amounts to over 4000kJ (~ 1.1 kWh). Still at (impossible) 100% efficiency.Maybe you'll need a solar roadway to plug in your magic bottle?Quote from: Kalidor on April 10, 2016, 03:03:55 pm

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 01:26:38 am
content: It's made it to Facebook! 3.8 million views and 67,200+ shares. They should be fully funded in no time!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 12:07:21 am
content: Thunderf00t bench test

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 12:13:18 am
content: I think I'm temped to pick up the whiteboard marker...

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 12:56:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 07, 2016, 12:13:18 amDO IT!Nothing tears these scams apart like numbers on a whiteboard!

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 12:44:18 pm
content: The new video from Thunderf00thttps://youtu.be/aPvXnmBIO7o

author: rpannen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 01:41:25 pm
content: Fine print on the project page:It is explicitly pointed out that the products which serve as Perks are in the development phase. It cannot be excluded that during the development phase technical, economical or other circumstances arise which may result in (i) a delay of the delivery of the Perk or (ii) the production and delivery of the Perk in a different form as regards functionality and/or design or (iii)even non-production of the Perk.In the latter case there will be no Perk delivered to the Contributor. Contributions will not be refunded.By making a Contribution the Contributors explicitly acknowledge the risks associated with the occurrence of one of the aforementioned events.Pure evil genius!

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 02:57:33 pm
content: Quote from: rpannen on May 10, 2016, 01:41:25 pmMany if not most of the backers do not understand one word English, the most I would say are from Asia. Like Triton or Ritot this product is professionally advertised in many languages, if you google "fontus ?" you get almost 5000 results, google "fontus ?" and you get over 40000 results. People then just go to Indigogo and think this is a internet shop and figuring out how to "buy" this super gadget. There are only 49 comments, another hint the backers can't speak English. Look how they react if it goes wrong like sProjector, they copy past sentence like "please refund me too fully. Thank you" or "tell me how a REFUND", maybe that's how google translates Korean to English. Another interesting fact is that most of the backers are new IGG customers that never backed anything else.The hole damn internet press and their copy paste reporter clowns should be send to.Note, looks like this forum is not in Unicode, replace the ? with the Korean and Chinese symbol of water.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 03:31:24 pm
content: Who wants to drink water anyway? Fish do it in it. Get me a self-filling beer bottle.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2016, 04:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: Kalidor on May 10, 2016, 12:44:18 pmWhat I got out of that video is a new Kickstarter/IndieGogo idea... It would take less energy to purify 1 L of your URINE than to condense 1 L of water out of air.How about it everyone? Let's put together a URINE PURIFICATION DEVICE powered by solar so we can have an endless supply of water.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2016, 07:44:38 am
content: Also, I had to use a room dehumidifier at some point. It was a unit cca 700x500x300mm in size, and you had to plug it into the wall, it was making quite some noise. So after a day, you had something like a liter of water in it, when a room was very humid. It was using something more than 100W. So the same thing portable? I dont see that happening.

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2016, 04:06:04 pm
content: On the subject of human waste.On top of the urine,sweat and vapour we exhale we also drop about 7 billion turds every day.Our planet has a lot to deal with.That's without even mentioning the terrible things we do to our ecosystemALL the time.3DB

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2016, 07:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: edy on May 10, 2016, 04:52:53 pmAlready exists, called a solar still. Works with urine, brackish water or even brine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 09:29:34 am
content: Not released until tomorrow, but for those following this:I know the campaign is almost over, but never to late to bust a dodgy productNOTE: Video has been updated with some added stuff.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 03:43:14 pm
content: I just noticed the last paragaph regarding his testing process on the James Dyson Award pagehttp://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/QuoteSo he tested it, and after "more than 30" attempts, managed to get one drop per minute in a rather unrealistic setup.150 drops (over 150 minutes) is about 8ml (@ 50ul per drop). That's rather a long way off 1 litre!

author: rpannen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 04:01:31 pm
content: I doubt that this is just a scam. I rather think that the guys are very stupid and belive this can be done (at least the design guy).

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 04:23:45 pm
content: Well, that's the really interesting question: stupidity or scam? I'm leaning toward scam, but... how could he think he could get away with it? I guess that's also a form of stupidity. Or maybe I'm stupid for thinking he won't get away with it

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 05:45:42 pm
content: Quote from: rpannen on May 17, 2016, 04:01:31 pmWell, that's what you often get with these industrial design and marketing/business guys. They just want to be "creative" and visionary, the unsexy part of making it actually work is the job of the engies in the dungeon. So when something doesn't work, it is the always fault of the engies for not trying hard enough and being negative and unconstructive with all their remarks how it can't work! If they only worked harder and were bringing solutions and not problems!uBeam is/was a stellar example of that approach.As far as I know, understanding thermodynamics or physics in general is not a requirement for a degree in design. Neither is math ...

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2016, 07:22:43 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on May 17, 2016, 05:45:42 pmexactly, listen to the BS flowing out of the uBeam scammer, sorry CEOhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?t=805&v=ukgnU2aXM2c

author: Kalidor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 10:12:39 am
content: I think he is a dreamer, otherwise he would not sent his private contact informationhttp://postimg.org/image/urg3jp0sx/full/Kristof Retezárrkristof@gmx.at+43 68110868897www.fontus.at

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:09:22 am
content: Quote from: Kalidor on May 22, 2016, 10:12:39 amThe contact info is public anyway, because Fontus is a corporation in Austria and the registration info in the "Firmenbuch" is public. You only have to pay a small fee to access it (which is quite unusual, actually - in many countries the basic information is freely available). That info will contain personal information of the people acting for the company, things like shareholder structure (if applicable), etc.If you don't mind to pay a few bucks, you can get the info here (through an UK registry lookup service, because the Austrian ones are byzantine ...):http://www.gbrdirect.co.uk/AvailableProducts.aspx?code=450879+h&regAuthor=007BTW, did you read what he wrote? He basically admits that the stuff they posted on the IGG page is complete BS in order to not reveal their secret sauce before it is "protected" (patented?) and that the real product will use "other energy inputs", etc. Isn't that a textbook bait and switch? Aka we promise one thing and deliver (if ever) something else?I think that admission alone should get him in hot water for false advertising. I am quite certain that Austrian laws are fairly strict on such things.I think that the guy is an industrial designer freshly out of school who has just dreamed up something, made a Powerpoint deck with a sales pitch and got an award from a business association for it, collecting a fewdesignawards in the process (aka awards that judge the looks and presentation of the thing, not actual feasibility). And he then uses those as some sort of validation of his idea.He has obviously absolutely no idea how to make it work or whether or not it is even feasible. I think they are hoping on getting a patent and then will shop around for a fool of a VC to license it to.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:23:21 am
content: Quote from: Kalidor on May 22, 2016, 10:12:39 amBullshit they didn't release data, they gave a very detailed graph of volume out vs time, temperature, and humidity.They are now saying this is all made up, so they were deliberately lying and being deceptive.Just like Batteriser, uBeam, et.al they didn't expect the engineering community to call them out on their claims.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:26:13 am
content: Quote from: janoc on May 22, 2016, 11:09:22 amThere is a person on twitter who went to school with him who is "99% sure" the project came from a subject they had were they had to come up with afictionalproduct.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:31:11 am
content: Quote from: Kean on May 17, 2016, 03:43:14 pmAdmittedly that was in 2014, so maybe after another 100 design tweaks he managed to get two orders of magnitude improvement

author: MadModder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 01:02:57 pm
content: Quote from: edy on May 10, 2016, 04:52:53 pmIdk... can you pee in to this?There is a reverse osmosis filter in it.https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/h2ope-2016-solar-power-purified-water-to-go/x/10829146#/

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:39:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2016, 11:26:13 amWell, there is nothing a priori wrong with that.Many unis, including the ones I have studied at and the one I taught at have students do projects like that as a part of their coursework. Some of these students then decide to found a startup, trying to turn their idea into a real product. I alone had at least 3-4 such startups spring up among my students over the 4 years I was there, some even winning various innovation prizes and what not. I think one or two are still around. On the other hand, they were not trying to do things that are against the laws of physics, so there is that ...