8664A from ebay, not as advertised... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2020, 03:02:41 pm
content: I was hoping to get the FCE (option 001) on the part 8664A unit I ordered from ebay, it claimed to have it black on white...Now I got the unit with the J8 cable and FCE cable dangling and connected to nothing ....Anyone know where to find that option, and maybe a photo of where it is placed in the unit ?So now I have this useless unit with a bunch of errors and a bad attenuator... And a good unit without FCE,If someone want parts from it, let me know. Even the (EP)ROM version is not that great, 4.0 ...

author: wd5jfr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2020, 04:27:12 pm
content: send it back, eBay is good on getting your money back

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2020, 09:36:42 pm
content: Notify E-bay that it's not as described and that you want your money back. Do NOT open the chassis or you will OWN it.Your post is rather vague in that it says that you "hoped to get the FCE". Did the listing say that that was included or not? Post up the auction number so that we can see the description for ourselves.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2020, 11:26:49 pm
content: The listing was specific with the FCE option 001. I had to open it to find that out...

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 12:29:57 am
content: not as advertised ... go with a claim or ask a refund, if it was written in the descrition go for it ... ive won a case like that in the past.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 04:27:40 am
content: I've won claims like that too, both as a seller and as a buyer. The problem is that now that you've opened it, the seller can claim that you removed the option. NO company, including HP, will warranty something after you open up the chassis. So good luck with that. I hope that you at least took plenty of photos beforehand.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 04:30:59 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 16, 2020, 04:27:40 amI have an 8664A (not with this option; mine has the low leakage case and low phase noise options), but I'm not sure there is a way to check installed options from the front panel. If there is, it will be one of the "special" functions you access with the "special" key on the left hand side near the sweep controls. If there is no way to verify an installed options other than opening it, what else are you supposed to do except take pictures? Take some scumbag ebay seller's word for it? I don't think so. This is used equipment, not under any sort of manufacturer warranty. I damn well better be free to open it to make sure it's what I bought, and definitely expect the seller to make it right if it isn't.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 04:49:28 am
content: Is this it? <https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-AGILENT-KEYSIGHT-8664A-SYNTHESIZED-SIGNAL-GENERATOR-1-3000MHZ-OPT-001-/402360029993?hash=item5dae86d329%3Ag%3AKC0AAOSwdQxfNDyt&nma=true&si=qnuQkZe4IZGRcgXp8IShdbDCVKE%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557>The tag on the back says that it has option 001 but the seals have been broken on the chassis. I always worry when I see that since you never know what was wrong in it or if it was fixed or fixed properly or what's been removed! The fact that the auction pictures show the seals broken will probably make your case easier since it shows that someone was into it before it was sold to you.First step is to contact the seller and tell them what's wrong and see what they'll do to correct it. If you don't get satisfaction from them then file a complaint with E-bay. BTW if the seller wants it returned to them then they have to pay the postage not you, that's Ebay's rule.Also It was described as "used", so per E-bay's rules, it's supposed to be complete and fully functional, that includes the options that are supposed to be included.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 04:54:23 am
content: Quote from: 0culus on September 16, 2020, 04:30:59 amIf I'm not mistaken, it will say 'OVEN' on the display when you first turn it on if you have OPT 001--and if you don't have it I would guess you don't see that indicator? The problem for the OP is that the EFC is included with OPT 001, but that part is missing. Or perhaps the OCXO has been removed as well. The seller didn't necessarily know that, so it is a mess for everyone.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 09:33:09 am
content: Yeah could be, but you see tons of stuff on ebay with broken seals, sold as is or volontarly or not with removed parts ....War of the words i may sayMore difficult than ever to make good purchases

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 01:36:04 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on September 16, 2020, 04:30:59 amIn that case the seller should list it as "For Parts or Repair".I've bought and sold plenty of stuff that way. One seller that I buy from frequently gets all of his stuff surplus and he doesn't even bother to turn it on, he just listseverythingas "for parts or repair".

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 02:01:25 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 16, 2020, 01:36:04 pmWell there are two issues with that . First, from the OPs description I think it was a nonworking parts unit. That doesn't get you off the hook as a seller if all of the parts aren't there! Second, I just repaired an 8644A for a surplus dealer and I spent 4 or 5 hours on it, including verifying that OPT 001 was present and operational--as far as the timebase goes. I didn't check the EFC function, nor a lot of other things. So you could do some basic functional testing to verify that the machine works and still miss the missing EFC unless you opened the unit up. None of that lets the seller off the hook, but it does make it understandable how this could happen without any negligence or ill intent. Now the mess is that shipping likely cost as much as the unit.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 01:07:14 pm
content: Well, here's an update...A simple ask the seller email didn't work, or the reply was not very prompt... The return request did activate the seller.... To be continued

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 04:48:06 pm
content: So, being curious and having just worked on a similar unit, I RTFM and found that it appears that the EFC functionality is entirely within the timebase, which makes sense if you don't mind a lot of different part numbers. On the 8644A, you get a STD timebase or you get OPT 001 which includes an OXCO and an EFC input. On your 8664A, the early serial numbers had either a standard timebase or OPT 001 with OXCO and EFC, just like the 8644A. On later serial numbers, 3203A and above, an OXCO timebasewithoutEFC was standard andwithEFC was OPT 001. So my suggestion of looking for an OVEN light won't help if it is a higher S/N.The manual unhelpfully mixes up incomplete information on about 10 different models, but the block diagrams at the end may be helpful. Look at BD9 and BD10. The EFC should connect to the J3 connector on the timebase in slot A20. You mentioned a loose J8 cable as well--where is the other end connected? Can you post of photo of the unit with covers removed and the connections exposed?

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 01:03:35 pm
content: From what I have gathered the unit I am interested in was available on all models of that area with a serial number above 3203AXXXXI looked at the pre 3203A SN on ebay and it has a SMA and additional BNC connectors instead of a single BNC, this should give the biggest hint.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 03:31:36 pm
content: Quote from: tchiwam on September 18, 2020, 01:03:35 pmI'm not sure where that chart is from, but the timebase p/n doesn't match what is in the manual. Not that it necessarily would, but the manual is a mess, IMO.Can you show a photo of the top with the covers off so we can see the cables and the numbers on the modules? Can you locate the timebase (A20, I believe) and see what p/n it has? And those loose cables, I presume one goes to the EFC BNC on the back panel, but where does the other one come from?

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2020, 07:09:10 pm
content: I am trying to get that time base, and I will take a picture of it, once I have it.The part number from that list is the kit you could order, that included more than just the unit:This is the later model:https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HP-10811-60111-Crystal-Oscillator-w-08645-60137-Board-for-HP-8645A/124190204988?epid=1403484998I guess this is the earlier model:https://www.ebay.ca/itm/AGILENT-HP-08645-60237-A-3123-10-High-Stability-Timebase-Standard-from-HP8644B/283475524265

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2020, 07:50:43 pm
content: Issue solved, in the best way possible, full refund and I get to keep the device too... Seller went silent, involved the CS from ebay and they reimbursed cost and shipping.Now for the hunt for my option 001....

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2020, 09:46:45 pm
content: Yes! I call it "freeBay". I have numerous items acquired this way, sellers either defaulted or didn't want any issues so they just refunded at the first request for assistance. I have more that I got big discounts on because I had to repair the items. I feel bad for the sellers sometimes, but usually the pain is self-inflicted.It was a parts unit, right? So now you can field-strip it without mercy and get a look at the timebase. And, of course, sell the unneeded parts on eBay.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2020, 10:38:03 pm
content: I think I can fix it too, the attenuator has a jammed step, the error is mostly due to the missing option 004, so I should be able to handle most of the errors and get it to working condition. While still incomplete for my purpose, they are good spares.I could sell the DECT option, I have no use for it...

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 02:48:24 pm
content: OK, Finally got the time to play with this, here are few notes that may help others. I ordered an incomplete 8665B and got most of the things sorted.I also have a 8665A coming over at some point.And a few moreA few of the errors I had:+1078311 COAX DSC-10124 311 HF DRV J6-31302311 MOD DIST NSM OSC - J2+4101311 MOD DIST NSM OSC-31467311 MW ASSY / GAAS dividers U17 J4Replaces and tested all the coaxes from COAX DSC and Reference board solved a lot of troubles, the previous guy was not gentle with it.Then took the U17 took it out of the socket cleaned it with ISO alcohol and reseated it, warmed up the pins and voila another error goneHF driver gave me a headache, the trim pot was on the max and could not reach it's voltage, so that needed to be addressed, tested with another board and it worked.Repeat the CAL every time and ...Still have:+5030311 REF OSC / STD 1nn / FAST 2nn /3nn+6031311 ATTN or 2GHz ATTN, in our case AttenuatorsThis unit had the option 001 and I only have a STD oscilator, the ROM seems to expect it, hoping that I will get one with the one I ordered. I don't (yet) know how to tell it I only have a normal oscilator, I did notice the above normal output at +15dBm, tempted to add an attenuator in the middle. I do have the same error if I put my 10MHz source and it works as intented switching between internal and external ref.I had another issue with the attenuators, I had the bad U32 in the I/O board that rom keeps the attenuator cal, so it's important to secure that ROM with new attenuator module. I may have to find a way to calibrate these little buggers later. But I may also find the original ROM too... I'll read it and hexdump it and see if I can make sense of it.My recommendations: Start with the section 2d and 3-1 of the Assembly level repair and go from there, take your time and get the things sorted, mark all SMB coaxes if they are not anymore. Test coaxes one at the time rinse and repeat.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 03:25:37 pm
content: Looking at the performance of the 8664A 8665A 8665B for the pulse generator, I think the modules can be used from each other... I will try a bit later.Then I think the only difference between the 8665A and 8665B are the ROM and MAYBE the J1 (131) J2 (132) MWEXT section.... The YIG and GAAS divider are probably the same.Missing a RF switch to go between Output board and the MW EXT board section.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2020, 08:49:20 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-8664a-faults/This is the current problem I have... I'll keep at it.Reference:J1 +9.2dBM 250MHzJ4 DC 0-2.7V 200kHz in 50ohmJ5 DC 0-2.5V 200kHz in 50ohmJ6 +15dBm 10MHzFrom A20 J2 (J8) +15dBm 10MHzI am wondering if the oscillator is not screaming too loud, the book says expect +7 to +8 dBm