Idea for a new product - You tell me - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: envisionelec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 01:24:44 am
content: I've had this idea rolling around in my head for a while. It's not new or revolutionary or life-changing and will probably be rather difficult to make. Get ready to shoot it down:Audio equipment that is made to genuinely replicate the old 1970's stuff, but with today's parts. Fully serviceable (comes with a schematic). Made in the USA. Priced above Home Theatre receivers, but well below what is considered "High End". It's really no better sounding than anything else for the money, but it looks like nothing else on the market today.Picture full-page ads in Stereophile Magazine similar to those used by manufacturers in their day. Autumn Gold backdrop, a beautiful woman chatting with a handsome man with one hand on the amplifier and a drink in the other. It all fits perfectly with the vintage-obsessed Instagram craze. The Hipsters would go nuts.It's exactly the kind of thing you'd find on Kickstarter. Except I'm not on Kickstarter.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 01:28:28 am
content: I think you overestimate how much other people like old shit.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 01:53:17 am
content: What's so good about 1970's stuff?All I remember about audio equipment in the 1970's was that I could't afford it on my salary of the time.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 02:03:58 am
content: Much of the 1970s audio equipment would be pretty easy to replicate on sight alone. Big single sided boards, little to no surface mounting.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 02:16:20 am
content: Make a batch of ten and sell them to aging baby boomers for $10,000 each on nostalgia and audio woo. Use the money to fund a product with wider appeal.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 03:36:59 am
content: I liked the cool 70s/80s audio equipment that had the mini oscilloscopes in them.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 07:51:57 am
content: Now that I think about it, audio for the retro crowd has been done...http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=Amplifiers&ProductId=MC275

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 08:04:34 am
content: Early transistorized 'prosumer' amps from the seventies are frequently awful. Amps from the eighties are nothing special from what I have heard and seen. High quality, dedicated FM receivers from the eightiesaresomething special, yet the hugely reduced audio quality of contemporary FM transmissions have frequently made their use pointless. Sourcing the correct parts in quantity for one those FM receivers would also be nigh impossible today.

author: vk3yedotcom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 08:25:55 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 17, 2013, 01:28:28 amDepends on your market. There's a lot of Baby boomers out there with stacks of money and spare time. Personal wealth peaks around age 60.As people get older many (not all) crave nostalgia. Eg having things they coveted but couldn't afford as a kid. Even if its performance sets no records and it's a pain to use. Witness the 'boatanchor equipment' movement amonst radio hams or vinyl fanatics for example. While it lasts wideband AM radio could be another niche market.So if you could get authentic stuff made cheap (eg China) and flog it to rich retirees in the west you might have a market.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 08:37:55 am
content: Quote from: vk3yedotcom on October 17, 2013, 08:25:55 amThe problem with that argument is that the nostalgia infused customers wantthe original widgetthey couldn't afford back then, not a contemporary clone made from 'modern' components.For a product to appeal to the nostalgia segment, then it would at the very least need to be made with the exact same components and tooling as the original, which would mostly be impractical for an electronic product. Clones with substantial technical changes, like same exterior yet new and 'improved' electronics, would only receive facepalms from the intended audience.

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 09:24:41 am
content: What does Made in USA has to do with the idea

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 11:22:07 am
content: Quote from: nuhamind2 on October 17, 2013, 09:24:41 amBecause it's not China.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 07:12:06 pm
content: The Chinese will put that origin label on if you want, otherwise they default to either none or made in PRC.Lovely story here about a Proudly South African launch, where the organisers found out that the caps and T shirts they had bought all screen printed with the logo were all marked " Made in China".

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 07:57:13 pm
content: If you have a passion for it and you know there is a community who had the same passion (market), I say go for it!Honestly, electrical engineering isn't the optimal way to make money, so why not dive into something you love.Personally I think this sort of thing would sell if marketed well.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 11:08:54 pm
content: Or the other one is "Assembled in USA" meaning the board and everything inside is from China, but we put a cover on it and turn 3 screws.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2013, 11:12:49 pm
content: It still annoys me to this day that the toys for the London Olympics were made in China, does the government not even consider the extra tax revenue they could have made by buying from the UK? Crazy...

author: envisionelec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:28:28 am
content: Well then. That was a more positive response than I was expecting. From the small amount of "man on the street" type questions I've done, plus the interesting responses here, I think it's worth at least trying.I have run into difficulties. None of this stuff is off the shelf like it was 35 years ago. Nobody makes chrome knobs that don't look like they belong on the front of a $39 Das Blinkenlights Karaoke machine. Nobody makes those killer toggle switch bat handles that were just so sweet to flip. Nobody makes knurled aluminum cap knobs for hifi use. They're all industrial spinners for military gear. And priced accordingly.While I don't plan to replicate the damn things exactly, I just want to give them the old school cosmetics and make them relatively easy to service. No surface mount stuff if I can help it. I refuse to make the majority of it in China. I will probably have the metalwork and molds made there as the prices for that stuff in the US is astronomical.As with most of my successful ideas, this one started as a quest to find a modern manufacturer of vintage looking audio gear. The best I could find was some replication junk with a cheap ass turntable and a USB jack bodged in the side panel. Sometimes with a tape deck. All looked like radios from the 1930s. I don't want that and I find that there is a reasonable percentage of the population that would be intrigued by the possibility of what I am proposing. Maybe even enough to buy it.Thank you for your input. I appreciate the time each of you took to write down your ideas.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 04:34:20 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on October 17, 2013, 08:37:55 amLike I could never really see the point of the Chrysler PT Cruiser.If I want to pay big bucks for something that looks like a restored 1930s vehicle,I'll buy a real restored 1930s vehicle!The same goes for thosehugemodern Minis ,---they've missed the point,as it might look a bit like one,but a "Mini" it ain't!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 02:02:29 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on October 18, 2013, 04:34:20 amWell it was a cheap car in the US, basically the Neon platform reshaped.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 06:54:52 am
content: Better off making a retro ipod dock if you want to target the hipsters (though i googled and there are already millions of them).If you make a retro case for a regular solid state power amplifier it will probably be too unpopular for mass production to be profitable, so you are better off going for a low volume hand built audiophool-friendly type of design and price them accordingly. Enclosures made from 50 million year old oak trees and aluminium knobs turned by hand on a lathe operated by nude virgins etc.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:35:54 am
content: Actually there is something to be said for making consumer electronics with designed-in serviceability. More and more people are waking up to the fact, that turning every piece of electronics into the proverbial black box may not always be in the owner's best interest.On the other hand, then less and less people buy a traditional Hi-Fi setup at all. In your average household the classic 'stereo' setup is quickly being replaced by portable iWidgets, only leaving small niche markets with equipment for LP and Audiophile enthusiasts. The manufacturers of classic consumer Hi-Fi equipment are profusely bleeding out these years...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 08:06:10 am
content: Quote from: TMM on October 19, 2013, 06:54:52 amThat's the problem these days, nude and virgin seem to be mutually exclusive things.

author: Mr Pig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:32:06 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on October 17, 2013, 01:28:28 amMm, quite.I think a small corner of the market might be interested but that's it. Put it this way, seen many of these?I's a Yamaha A-S1000. Looks like it fell out of the seventies but it's a brand new amp with retro styling. Or at least it was brand new but I think it's discontinued, perhaps because they've sold very few of them? Just a guess.Don't get me wrong, I think that a lot of seventies and eighties Hi-Fi kit looked and sounded great but nobody cares any more. It's all about visuals now, sound is so last week.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 09:10:43 pm
content: If it had a touchscreen and paired with the nearest Smartphone(dont forget to sell the App's for that, paid apps make the costumer imagine that the sound is better), that would sell like hot cakes.Oh, and offer it in piano black, and perfect glossy white

author: Mr Pig
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 09:21:59 pm
content: That Yamaha ampwasavailable in black.Wouldn't be very retro with a touch-screen ;0)You do get Hi-Fi that is both elegant and up to date, Classe spring to mind, but at the bread-and-butter end of things no one gives a stuff any more. In the seventies a Hi-Fi was an aspirational product, it was the cool thing to have. It just isn't any more. Joe Public now just wants as many little video screens as he can get.

author: Rascal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 09:31:40 am
content: Probably only a matter of time before the Chinese start re-producing good quality 70's gearCheck out the 40's & 50s valve radios they currently produce:-http://www.audio01.com/eng/product.htm

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 09:27:08 am
content: Quote from: Rascal on October 25, 2013, 09:31:40 amThose are not true reproductions in any way. They are solid state radios, sometimes fitted with a tube/valve audio output amplifier and a magic eye tuning indicator.

author: Whuffo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 10:02:15 am
content: I saw a lot of that 70's audio gear cross my bench in the past - and it was usually some pretty awful stuff inside. The high end stuff was usually a very elegant enclosure with single sided phenolic boards and cheap parts inside; made in Japan, back when that was the "go to" country for low cost technology.High end stuff like the Nakamichi Tri-Tracer cassette deck - Dave would be speechless if he did a teardown on one of those. Nakamichi and Alpine were the same company; mostly marketing. Their products were oh-so-sexy on the outside and the marketing department bent the specs in amazing ways. But inside, they made $5 transistor radios look like quality goods. Terrible, just terrible.There was some very good audio equipment made in those days - but it was very uncommon. Most of it; imagine those old metal can germanium transistors clamped to a piece of aluminum for output transistors. This kind of junk was common in the '70s. The usual repair: replace the blown outputs and drivers, and the burned resistors. Very expensive repair due to the price of the parts and they'd blow them up again in a few months.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 10:37:27 am
content: Quote from: nuhamind2 on October 17, 2013, 09:24:41 amPeople in 'merica buy things "made in the USA" cause....well it's not crap. Well, except for cars up until 5 years ago- so even that's not true anymore. I'd much rather spend money here then overseas. (but with test equipment and component, that's all but imposable - but at least mouser get most of my money for parts)

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 03:24:34 pm
content: it's an interesting idea, but i wonder if it might be a hard slogif your setting up a new brand it will have no credibility with the market your looking at, especially if your going to be asking medium to high values for it. Marketing can help with that though if done properly.There is probably some mileage in the idea, more research needed!

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 05:00:54 pm
content: Youre going to have to out design the japanese, i don't think that's possible for one man to do frankly

author: envisionelec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 03:15:11 pm
content: Thanks, everyone, for your input. It is all very valuable and is precisely the kind of discussion I needed to hear.

author: uoficowboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 04:34:16 pm
content: OK - I think it's a solid idea but will have to be done carefully.Regarding the made in the USA thing - don't just slap a sticker on it. Document what is done in the USA, and what is done elsewhere. Try to maximize what is done here. Have a page on your website showing the American factories and the workers doing the work. Make it clear what *wasn't* made in the USA and why. (ie some chip is made overseas and that is the only source for it).Regarding open source - I think that's a solid idea. Blogs are loving the whole open source/open hardware craze right now - so it'd be a great way to get some buzz IMHO.Finally - I'd suggest having very detailed tech specs and test reports available. Show how awesome the THD is at varying loads. Stuff like that. Make it appeal to engineers, as I think they'll be a big part of your market.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 05:04:38 pm
content: Quote from: uoficowboy on October 31, 2013, 04:34:16 pmEven better, read and follow what the US government has to say about Made in USAhttp://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 05:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 17, 2013, 11:22:07 amI only buy BOSE made in the UK pure qualityhttp://www.bose.co.uk/GB/en/index.jsp?mc=05WPS1058