Rigol red screen of death  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 11:31:30 am
content: So, after couple of years in almost daily usage, today shortly after I made some measurements on next power up I got this:... after few moments red screen disappear but scope is not responsive to touching of any control:Nothing was connected on it when powered on, and only "strange" thing was two short AC mains blackout this morning. I presume that I have to contact Rigol service.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 12:23:29 pm
content: I forgot to mention that few days ago on power up it simply change everything to default and set Chinese as user language. Don't know if that two incidents are related or not. Is it possible that flash is "flashed" and that some firmware part just gone? Anyone know of possible cure or "magic" selection of buttons during or after power up that could change current state?

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 12:26:27 pm
content: Have you tried the 5th button reset? If this works it will also reset language to Chinese but should restore functioning... maybe.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 12:31:59 pm
content: Doesn't work, but I can hear beep-beep-beep tone that gone when display color is changed to red. It seems that some "intelligence" is still there, maybe some of power signals is missing (i.e. something is happened with power supply stage).

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2018, 12:48:28 pm
content: Had a quick look around Google and I can't find any other references to this problem.Power supply voltages should be easy to check but beyond that, I have no idea what to suggest, other than contacting Rigol for service.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 08:22:02 am
content: I got an offer for Rigol service that is almost the cost of the new (less capable) scope (a little more then 500 € with shipping back and forth). I was thinking before buying a new one or eventually send this one to the service, to try to open it and somehow check if only firmware is damaged. I know there is a few threads about hacking various Rigol scopes with hundreds of posts. I have a trouble to find out where to make connection (i.e. to I2C bus) and does such hacks affect only a part of firmware or simply overwrite a whole firmware. If the later is the case, maybe that could be a cure for my scope.

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 09:13:13 am
content: It's possible you could have a failure of the internal Switching PSU module such that one of the voltage rails has failed. The first check should be to check that the various voltage rails are within spec. If they are not OK the problem moves on to substitution or repair of the supply. Alternatively if you have an external PSU, that can supply the same set of voltage rails, you could try powering the scope from it. Another temporary solution could be if you know of another DS1000Z a PSU swap might be a possibility. However be aware the latter solution might damage the swapped PSU. Best of luck.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 09:15:00 am
content: I've already tested PSU, and can say that all voltages are in line with what is written down on the PCB.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 09:57:41 am
content: If it's under two years old and you bought it from an EU seller, then I'd push for a warranty repair. It is clearly not fit for purpose.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 10:02:54 am
content: No, it is not. I bought it in second half of 2014.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 10:05:51 am
content: I'd probably buy a new one then. The lifespan of these looking at the engineering is a couple of years at most. I actually just shifted mine and am using an old Tek because I can actually repair that if it goes bang.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 10:34:31 am
content: I have not had a look inside the MSO1000Z series, so this is just a wild guess:Does the board have a backup battery? I think the 2000z series does have a 3V lithium coin cell. Might possibly be a dead battery issue.

author: Daruosha
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 10:40:32 am
content: The coin cell battery in the DS/MSO 2000 series keeps the internal RTC going. AFAIK, the 1000z series do not have a builtin RTC and they don't need a backup battery inside.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 10:46:17 am
content: There was no RTC in mine.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 01:56:22 pm
content: You could try following what happened in this thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rigol-ds1054z-stuck-during-boot/You might want to reseat the cables and test voltages at the power cable. The caps in the supply are cheap and high hours on the supply may be a contributing factor. So first rule out the easy stuff.I think the back of the main PCB has voltages/labels in english.Quote from: JJalling on August 06, 2015, 08:05:13 pm

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:03:04 pm
content: Wow, firmware upload/boot from USB is mentioned in the thread. Where to obtain firmware for my scope?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:19:51 pm
content: Other things to try is stuck buttons which may require removing the rubber button pad.You could compare your scopes power cycle to one on youtube etc to see exactly how far it's getting.See if the scope can be interfaced over network or USB, which means the software is partially running.When you do "flash erase" procedure the software reverts to Chinese, so if you can somehow try another "flash erase" or setting the "power set" condition to "default" instead of "last". After a power cycle it will wipe the configuration instead of trying to revert (possibly corrupt settings).Something to try anyway.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on February 26, 2018, 02:03:04 pmPlease have a look at theDS1000Z bug and maintenance thread. There is some more comprehensive info too

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 02:38:11 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on February 26, 2018, 02:03:04 pmhttp://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0019/t/page/fm/0orhttp://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3Keep in mind actually re-flashing is not always the answer, you want to get a general idea of signs of life. Flashing a partly inoperable piece of equipment can cause it to die during the flashing process.So I'd just be interested to see if the other tests I mentioned make a difference or you get a response on screen from initiating a flash update. Which indicates it's more alive than you think.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 07:12:37 pm
content: I have a DS1102E which I've never opened. However, I have been inside my Insteks to look around. Having repaired a Tek 465 and a Dumont 1060 the thing that struck me was how easy it was to sort out the circuitry when it's all on a single board. It's much harder with multiple boards stacked on top of each other. In fact, it seems to me that you could probably extract a schematic using photographs and a bit of AI. An emitter follower shouldn't be that hard to recognize.It may not be repairable economically, but there is certainly nothing to be lost if you are cautious. Of course, you *will* need another scope if it's anything more difficult than the PSU. I'd buy a new scope and treat this one as a repair project when I felt like messing with it. Or sell it to DC1MC who is looking for a dead unit for parts.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 11:24:07 pm
content: There is also the yellow screen of deathand the snowy screen of deathThis was a brand new (a couple weeks old) DS1054Z that would randomly crash like this. Sometimes the screen was dark. Sometimes the screen was still being updated. But in all cases the controls became unresponsive.Typically, before this, the hardware frequency counter would stop updating; the last read value would remain latched. Then it was just a question of time before the oscilloscope became unusable.This particular unit was replace under warranty.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 11:40:51 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on February 26, 2018, 07:12:37 pmI'm afraid that my unit is ready for scrapyard or forDC1MC(that is forum member or what?). I tried with firmware update, but it doesn't work, or I don't understand procedure that is rather simple: copy firmware on the USB stick formatted as FAT32 and reboot the unit. Nothing happened.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 11:42:43 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on February 26, 2018, 11:24:07 pmGreat, so over time we can expect a full rainbow.

author: buck converter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2018, 11:47:13 pm
content: maybe you can sell it on eBay

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 12:01:15 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 26, 2018, 10:05:51 amWhat aspects of the engineering are you „looking at“ to reach that conclusion?

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 12:34:39 am
content: Quote from: prasimix on February 26, 2018, 11:42:43 pmOh, sorry I was not trying to make fun of your situationThe DS1054Z that I had that was crashing randomly would boot normally (most of the time). Was your DS1054Z still booting normally?Maybe there are more than one cause that lead to a red/yellow/snowy display and unresponsive controls.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 10:44:37 am
content: As it is scrap right now anyway (sorry!) it might be worth to resolder it:Wait until your wife is not at home. Remove the board and place it in an oven at max. temp for a re-solder of all parts / balls. The oven needs to stay closed all the time!!After you are finished, make sure you cool down everything slowly (first open the door a bit, then after one minute completely; after another 2 minutes you may remove the board).Caution: try this with another scrap board first!!! and check how long it takes until the solder melts everywhere.Then add another 30 seconds as the Rigol board probably needs more time due to higher thermal mass.Or (much much better) go and find a soldering company in your area and ask if they are willing to run your board through their solder oven.Good luck!

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 10:53:28 am
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on February 27, 2018, 12:34:39 amHi SkyMaster, keeping a good sense of humor shouldn't hurt, actually situation is funny, on one power up it was worked fine, on another, it became unusable. It seems that is not completely dead, since firmware (or what remained of it) can light on and off buttons and change red screen to black. And that's all. I already ordered another one from Batronix (DS instead of MSO, so I have to see how to compensate lost Logic Analyzer functionality) and this one is ready for auction for spare parts or maybe to put it in oven as Pinkus suggested.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 10:57:54 am
content: Quote from: Pinkus on February 27, 2018, 10:44:37 amNo! Please do not reflow anything "just because".Baking hardware in the oven without knowing what actually causes the problem is more likely to make things even worse.Like with every board repair: Follow the power lines first. Might be something simple like a bad cap or transistor.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 03:08:48 pm
content: First, check all power rails for ripple, to exclude bad capacitors. Is there even a schematic available?Otherwise, faults like these (sometimes it works, other times it doesn't, weird behaviour...) is quite typical for bad EPROM/Flash or rarely bad RAM. So I doubt reflowing will help. Unfortunately it's all BGA, so not easy to change or reprogram. Maybe try with JTAG?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 03:37:37 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on February 27, 2018, 10:53:28 amHave you asked if Rigol would let you upgrade a DS1104Z Plus to the MSO1104Z using your existing probes? That's a $50 price uptick over the DS1104Z in the US.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 03:39:48 pm
content: I've asked for "new-for-old" swap but they are not offering that (actually this is "new-for-damaged" swap).

author: ChrisG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 03:41:56 pm
content: I had a black screen of death yesterday first time whilst. Was measuring some low Vpp simple 1Mhz Sine-Wave. Pressed the Single Trigger mode button and poofff: black screen.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2018, 04:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on February 27, 2018, 03:39:48 pmWhich leaves will the LA probe work in a Plus without hacking.I had a trashed screen appear a couple of times a few months ago. Fortunately it has not reappeared, but I've not had the scope on much.I have had repeated experience with solder flux residue causing faults in high humidity conditions. Cleaning off the flux residue with isopropyl alcohol has solved the problem several times. Flux is hygroscopic and as it absorbs moisture from the air it changes properties. I first started seeing this when 3.3 V and lower logic started becoming common. In the past I didn't have the tools to probe the problem so I just settled for cleaning. It took two tries on my stereo, but it's worked fine for a couple of years since I did it. Before I did it would fail to recognize that it had a disk because the disk not spinning.Before you open the box the new scope comes in you might find it useful to open up the old one and look for flux residue, particularly around the logic lines and if you find any, clean it off with 99% IPA and a soft brush.My DS1102E is now out of warranty, so I'm going to take a look.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 08:48:15 pm
content: Well, the cadaver is now in my yard, waiting for dissection and frankestein-ization.Many thanks to @prasimix that shipped the whole carcass to DE for a very reasonable price and to @rhb that remembered that I've got another Rigol body part, a mainboard from an 1104Z and let me know that the deceased from @prasimix is available.I will keep this zombi thread alive for a while, starting with the first naive question:What is the best way to open the case without denting it ?Cheers,DC1MC

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 08:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: DC1MC on March 06, 2018, 08:48:15 pmHuh? What is the way to open the casewithdenting it?(Hint: Remove the screws first...)

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 09:38:37 pm
content: Dave shows the general idea in this video. Careful about putting the instrument on it's face though especially on a hard bench.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 10:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 06, 2018, 08:59:07 pmMeh, I'm tired, I've seen the ones hidden by the handle but postponed the opening for the next days.Cheers,DC1MC

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2018, 11:58:56 pm
content: If the power button interferes, pull it off. Don't break the switch the way I did. Replacement on its way from China, but I felt pretty stupid. I *do* know better.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 05:34:45 am
content: Quote from: DC1MC on March 06, 2018, 10:37:35 pmIt's really just the two screws behind the handle, and another two on the bottom. The plastic enclosure then opens easily, no hidden plastic latches or such. If I recall correctly, you don't even have to take off the front, but can remove the back only. If you want to remove the front too, pull off all the knobs first. No need to remove the power button, in my experience.The internal metal enclosure is held together by quite a few screws, but they are all clearly visible. Again, no further trickery with latches or such; the enclosure opens quite easily. (But beware of sharp edges of the punched metal.)All screws are the same Torx size, by the way. Rigol did a pretty nice job designing a robust and serviceable enclosure.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 03:38:47 pm
content: As mentioned, there's four screws (and a warranty void sticker) holding the back on. Inside you'll find a bunch more screws, and will also need to unscrew the BNC nut and unclip the power supply and fan (I think) to get the internal steel shell and PSU fully off the motherboard.To disassemble further just keep going with the motherboard/front panel screws, and you'll need to take the knobs off as mentioned. There are probably some more BNC nuts to remove, but as far as I can remember, no nasty plastic clips or anything to trip you up.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2018, 05:45:11 pm
content: Thanks all for the advice.I was wondering if anybody knows the mainboard connectors for imx28 serial interface for debugging and FPGA RDY signal ?Cheers,DC1MC

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2018, 08:31:25 pm
content: VICTORY !!!It works like a charm, the issue, as I've imagined, was the crappy NAND flash, probably 95% of all the non-booting scopes with different colored screens.EDIT:It was thegremlins with missing keys in the memory dump, second memory dump was OK, all options available, now is a MSO1104Zplus extra options 0.5mV/DIV, "DG" and "Power Ana(log ?)", does anybody know what is with last two options ?"DG" could mean Data Generator, how can one access or control it ?"Power ana", well this is a full mystery to me, any help is very appreciated.I'll make a new topic about them, this could be interesting for other people as well.On the other side:"...dumped 67108863 bytes in 8789.756836s (7.456 KiB/s)"Please, if you have any ideas about a fast and relatively cheap JTAG adapter either reply here or in my "Other Devices" topic, this "USB Blaster" is beyond pathetic.Now finally we can close this topic.Cheers,DC1MC

author: t_i_t_o
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 07:18:23 am
content: As a last resort you can always hardware-enable the 100MHz bandwidth, un-mounting both bandwidth limiting capacitors on all four channels.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 07:55:29 am
content: Quote from: t_i_t_o on March 14, 2018, 07:18:23 amCareful! Probably this would require a new calibration of the scope.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 08:01:46 am
content: Can you not use riglol to generate a key?

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 09:04:08 am
content: Quote from: imidis on March 14, 2018, 08:01:46 amYou probably wanted to sayrigup, the memory dump scanner, of course I've tried to use it, after painfully dumping the memory and... "No keys found"I wasn't collecting it a good point, or the SP3 version of the software closed this loop or is a special East European version, with even more difficult ways to upgrade it.I will try to collect another dump, but I'm pissed off that I just nicely closed the scope and wanted to open it again only when the silent fan arrives, but now I have to force myself to open it again(still hi fever and adverse reactions of this bloody strong antibiotics) and collect a new memory dump, I don't know how long I survive and don't want to let the job unfinished.I had a faint hope that one of the original researches wold look into the dump, but most likely the dump is invalid, if the second dump fails, I'll post in original mega-thread.Cheers,DC1MC

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 09:05:59 am
content: Eck sorry, didn't notice it's an MSO.I hope you have luck!

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 03:15:45 pm
content: Quote from: imidis on March 14, 2018, 09:05:59 amI've had a bit of luck (please see edit above) and thanks to all for the good words and advice, it really helped my shaken spirit with all this sickness.Cheers,DC1MC

author: helge
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 06:02:56 pm
content: Sorry for reviving this thread, but we're having a little "Black Screen Of Death" situation here - scope worked, removed thumb drive, turned off, turned on again, now it only produces a buzzing sound (~20 Hz). It experienced a very light knock on the backside of the enclosure while picking it up from the place where it stood which really shouldn't have caused any issues and may be coincidental. Very strange - Here are the SMPS open-circuit voltages:Blue: 15.28 (17.5 V)Grey: -15.16 (-17.5 V)White: 8.84 (9.0 V)Yellow: 6.02 (7.5 V)Green: -5.98 (-7.5 V)Red: 4.42 (5.0 V)Brown: -0.03 (OPTO)Orange: 0 (GND)current suspicion is that the SMPS PCB flexed and a voltage divider resistor broke - having the heaviest components in the center and only being mounted on the short sides would be asking for flexural damage.component side image is from Dave's teardown (EEVblog #674),solder side image is from what we're looking at here, while the top is identical (also V01.01_20130504)Has anyone seen this behavior so far? It really feels like a very odd failure mode.

author: helge
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 07:16:57 pm
content: Resoldered the bottom side passives on the secondary associated with the voltage feedback and checked voltages again:Blue: 16.64 VGrey: -16.51 VWhite: 9.66 VYellow: 6.56 VGreen: -6.51 VRed: 5.08 VLet's see if that fixed it.ps. in fact soldering the joints on the power supply PCB did resolve the issue and scope is back in operation. Hope this helps somebody out there at some point. As the mode of failure was likely an out-of-spec divider on the power supply, I'd expect a failure mode where overvoltage is produced. I'd need to go go back and check whether there is OVP on the mainboard. Without that, a faulty power supply would easily be able to blow up the PCB (many PoL DCDC converters have 6-6.5V abs. max. input and fail when driven above that. With a pass-through failure, the downstream parts are toast.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 08:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: helge on December 28, 2019, 07:16:57 pmThanks for sharing, if I'm not mistaken, your post is the 1st one that reported Rigol DS1054Z repair.How old is that scope ?Also regarding the fixing by re-soldering joints, which joints exactly ? As this may be useful for future owner should they experiencing similar problem.As this forum alone has quite some number of aging DS1054Zs.

author: helge
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 08:59:57 pm
content: recommend soldering joints / checking resistors for damage:yellow: circuitry around the optocouplerorange: more suspect circuitry around switch-mode controller IC? (SO-8 part)scope is 2014 vintage.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:03:11 pm
content: Thanks, how old is it ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:17:12 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on December 28, 2019, 09:03:11 pmDon't think that matters unless the SMPS has a different layout/design in new units.Here, the heaviest component on the PCB is the SMPS transformer and it would seem a bump has flexed the PCB resulting in cracked solder joints....hardly surprising considering it's placed near the middle of the PCB and the mounting points are only on the corners.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: helge on December 28, 2019, 08:59:57 pmSo its 5 years old ... thanks.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:22:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 28, 2019, 09:17:12 pmStatistically speaking, it is really matter, once other DS1054Z owner experiences similar problem, and fixed using similar method.

author: helge
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:53:00 pm
content: failure of components and solder joints under shock- and vibration-induced flexure could have been mitigated, the main culprit in the design process could have been clearance / creepage distance.When in doubt, I think a nylon hex spacer could have made all the difference over the lifetime of the product. The caps sure look the part and there is no other visible degradation or even accumulation of dust and grime on the PCB.

author: NutuElectronist
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2024, 03:25:18 pm
content: Hello All. I have DS1074Z with red dead screen , i try all method but no succes .When i power up and plug in stick with update file on front USB port and press HELP button Led from CHI blinking and led from stick blinking for 5 second and after all led s from right panel blinking but screen stay RED.Any idea how i can give life again for my RIGOL ?

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 01:20:05 pm
content: Quote from: NutuElectronist on January 24, 2024, 03:25:18 pmTry a different USB stick. Probably will not make any difference but worth trying.

author: NutuElectronist
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2024, 02:54:20 pm
content: Hi and thank you for your replay. I try with many USB sticks but not success . May be not working because have update before with last update ?Any chance to find nand flash Dump ?Thank you.

author: beta-tester
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2024, 08:08:15 am
content: just another version of death - flashing lights of death:after many attempts i could re-flash the firmware, Rigol emailed me, from an USB stick and that fixed the issue for a month or so, but then it happens again. happily it happen in warranty time so i got a new one.