Fear of number 13... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:01:39 am
content: I'm just watching Apollo 13 on TV, and remember that growing up in the 70s the fear of number 13 seemed to be a real thing (the phobia, that it) - talk of buildings skipping floor 13 because people would be spooked, and skipping house numbers.Is this still a thing? Was it ever a thing? Or is it just a long forgotten craze phase like Bigfoot, UFOs and Pyramid Power?

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:44:35 am
content: That said, at least in Australia, all manner of old superstitions seem to have become rare over the past decades ... triskaidekaphobia among them.The anti-science undercurrent that started in the 1970s has replaced them as the go-to irrationality.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 10:06:05 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 amI don't think it is anything about people with superstitions being being stupid or backwards...I'm more wondering if in the early 70s a large number of people believed the mission was jinxed because of it, or was it a jibe at part of popular culture of the day.Judging by things like this, they were 100% serious:I shouldn't really be surprised: "On Wednesday, prime minister Jacinda Ardern and Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield were asked to respond to claims 5G is causing Covid-19."https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018742340/5g-conspiracy-question-ignites-debate-on-press-performance

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 10:47:41 am
content: One of the great truths about human behavior that is well known in the psychological sciences but rarely mentioned is this:"People believe what they want to believe. Facts are irrelevant".We all suffer from it to one degree or another, but nobody will ever admit it. Feel free to search for research papers on the subject. There are tons.So yeah, the list of things people believe about stuff that is in direct opposition to facts is perhaps the longest list in the universe.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 01:38:40 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 amI have quite a few 'Asian' relatives, that have lovingly & welcomely come into our present family. It always gets me why/how they are so superstitious about certain numbers etc. But there is a WIDER concern I have for some of their 'beliefs'...We all know about their vast interest in 'ancient' herbal medicines etc. and some of the things that they buy/desire/believe. And it usually goes without saying, that a lot of them have great business acumen, and are leaders in the world in regards to Electronics & Computer Programming etc. etc. That's a 'given', and good luck to them! However, that's why I don't understand SOME of them for having such naive and massively ignorant beliefs regarding some of their 'herbal' (animal/organic) purchases!!! (May I explain one...)...SOME, (even highly educated people), buy/use ground up Rhinoceros-Horn... (Sigh). Why?? Because the horns look 'Phallic', so they think it may alleviate their 'erectile' dis-functions etc. (Sigh). However, even totally junior organic people over the rest of the world, know & understand that it is made from nothing but fiber/hair!!!!!! Ok, many centuries ago, they may not have understood that, but today they DO!!!Today, the MASSIVE decline in Rhinoceros populations in Africa, is DIRECTLY attributed to this belief, and hence the monetary gain for Poachers to HUNT THEM !! Without THAT, the whole problem goes away OVER NIGHT!! This is fucking '2020' not '1250'. (Off soap box)

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 02:39:18 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 01:49:14 pmI know I was 'generalizing' when I said Asians. (Although 'some').Don't get me wrong, as I said, there are a LOT of 'Asians' who are VERY smart, & technical. That's why I find it strange that even the very intelligent ones still hold on to certain old 'beliefs'. Quite a few of my Doctors/Specialists are of Asian/Indian decent and they know/care a lot. But I know of certain Asian 'relatives' who are almost millionaires at the top of their game, but still have these specific beliefs??

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 03:04:54 pm
content: I was born on May 13, so sometimes really great things happen with that number.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 03:14:02 pm
content: Cisco at least does not like the number 13. Nor the number 14 it appears.With their IOS operating system, they skipped both, and went from 12 to 15, some years back.With their phone system software, they will be skipping the number 13 as well, going from the current version 12.5 directly to 14.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 04:57:12 pm
content: Most large buildings in the USA still skip the 13th floor, which is something I've always thought was silly because there's still a 13th floor, it's just called 14. Superstition is idiotic but seems to be an integral part of the human mind.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 06:32:26 pm
content: Well, if you want to talk about irrationality, just go to the "creationists".

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 03:06:16 pm
content: A classic Bob Newhart comedy routine has him playing the night watchman at the Empire State Building as King Kong climbs it holding Fay Wray. Reporting the situation by telephone, he is asked how tall the monster is, and replies, "It depends on whether we have a 13th floor".

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 01:06:28 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2020, 04:57:12 pmIn DIVERSION again... (UhOh, it's what I do, hahaha)...In Australia, (I used to also be responsible for fire systems in multi-story buildings!), we used the 25m rule for many factors. Of course there are buildings of great height now, but previously, it might have been common for say a 10-story building. A 12/13/14 story building was rare! because over 25m ALL floors had to have hydrants/sprinklers etc, not just the ones above, because originally that was the max height that elevated platform ladders could reach! Now, the same 25m rule has a different meaning. It means the max vertical distance that a person should have to travel, to exit the building in an emergency. What does that mean in relation to 'building-height' ??It is from the FLOOR (your feet!) level of the TOF, (Topmost Occupied Floor), to the LOWEST point of egress. This does NOT include the likes of Plant-Rooms or Lift-Motor-Rooms (or towers etc) above, as people there are less common, and are technical people more accustomed to the building layout/safety. At the 'ground', there may be a 'lower' exit on one side of the building, if on sloping ground.Where they would often 'legally' come unstuck, is to finally utilize say a roof-top area for staff, or a top level gymnasium etc. (New TOF!).Anyway... 13-floors was certainly not common for a long time here, due to such fit-out costs.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 06:31:41 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 19, 2020, 01:38:40 pmHunting down naturally occurring chemicals to cure illness is rather different than pure superstition like fear of number 13. It does require faith that the data collected is largely correct rather than largely coincidental or imaginary (imaginary would be the placebo effect as we call it present day).Aspirin for example - ancient Egyptians and ancient Chinese both found good use in certain tree-bark. It is not until 19th/20th century chemistry that we now have Aspirin. Whenapplying remedies that "worked based on empirical evidence"and doing so without a clear understanding of the processes/chemistry involved would require a good amount of faith.Mixing that kind of faith with superstition somehow doesn't seem fit.At least for Chinese herbal medicine, it is not just knowing what natural material does what; knowing that is just a "mental" database lookup and that is the easy part. Given that you are consuming "the medicine" in its natural form (ground/dry willow tree bark for example), you are not exactly consuming pure medical grade acetylsalicylic acid. There will be many other substances in that tree-bark you consumed along with acetylsalicylic acid. Each of these other substances will have its own side effects. The harder part of herbal medicine is in controlling and balancing those side effect by yet other naturally occurring materials.While we in the west often do things to take down a fever as soon as possible; where as Traditional Chinese medicine often would accelerate a fever by wrapping the patient with heavy blankets to keep the heat. They did that based on empirical evidence that it helps but they sure did not understand immune systems as we do today. Today, we know that our immune system works better at higher temperature and that is why evolution brought us the fever to begin with.Acupuncture is another "proven to do something" Traditional Chinese medicine stuff. Present day explanation is that "it is kind of method of nerve stimulation." I suppose we would agree that the chi/qi/chee (kind of like the force that is with you) is more or less rubbish. So we know it does something but we don't know how it does that something. That list of something that it could help with includes "Chemotherapy-induced and postoperative nausea and vomiting", "Dental pain", "Headaches, including tension headaches and migraines", "Labor pain", "Menstrual cramps"...With a few thousand years of experience of collecting and applying empirical evidence, no doubt some are worthy stuff and some are mistakes yet to be discovered. That said, to conflate herbal medicine with superstition would be a mistake committed.References:[#0] NCBI at NIH.gov publication: Fever and the thermal regulation of immunity: the immune system feels the heathttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4786079/[#1] Johns Hopkins University Hospital / Johns Hopkins Health: What is acupuncture?https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/acupuncture[#2] The list of problems acupuncture may resolve was copy&pasted from the Mayo Clinic - full list is too long so pasted partial list only. Full list and further descriptions here:https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/acupuncture/about/pac-20392763EDIT: Corrected typo

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 08:55:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 amFor numbers I'd say it's part of human culture. No-one would fear 13 before being explained its "meaning". Modern fears are based on instincts, but I wouldn't call them "natural". Numbers are pure abstraction, it's irrational to fear them, but good luck explaining this to people with numerphobia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskaidekaphobia).Recently I heard a theory that our brain always in search for dangers, it's an instinctive behavior. If there is no real danger present, people start making it up.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 10:05:03 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on April 19, 2020, 08:01:39 am13and all the other hoaxes and fear jobs are done and over, and not a minute too soonCoronais officially top dog now and beyond doubt, question or skeptismBillions of hardcore news media circus believers and serial hypochondriacs can't be wrong

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 01:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 amWhy do you equate hoarding money and greed with common sense? Some of the world's biggest fools are very wealthy. Unlucky numbers is mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus and downright stupidity, observed by fools. The world is full of gullible people without much common sense and no understanding of basic science or mathematics.911 is wonderful number... it is a prime number!73!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 01:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 19, 2020, 10:47:41 amPlenty of people admit it. A large part of science is devoted to hunting out this behaviour and reducing its impact. I think the same applies to many people on a personal level. Many strive to lead evidence based lives while also understanding they never fully will. Of course there are plenty of idiots who feel they are exceptions to the rule. Just ask people whether they're susceptible to advertisements.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 01:38:03 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 22, 2020, 10:05:03 amAre you denying Corona?

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:29:52 pm
content: Its not worth it Mr. Scram. He clearly surpassed us mentally long ago.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 09:13:33 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on April 22, 2020, 01:35:17 pmActually, that "fear of 14" or "fear of 4" is just not fear, it is in part good manners.This other case recently on Yahoo news illustrates similar situation well: "Amy Schumer had to rename her baby because his name sounded too much like 'genital'..." So, baby Gene Attell Fischer was legally renamed "Gene David Fischer" at 11 months old.https://news.yahoo.com/amy-schumer-had-rename-her-145513244.htmlIn Cantonese, the number four sounds the same as "death", "die"; and the number ten sounds the same as "must", "shall". So, if you live on the 14th floor and someone asks:"what floor are you on?", a simple answer "14" sounds like you are replying with:"(you) must die". Hence using "4", "40", or "14" is commonly avoided for good manners unless context clarification is affixed. Of course, some would avoid the floor called "must die" -- why would I want to go to a floor where "(I) must die". Such avoidance could be classified as superstitious with some justification.Actually, more fun can be had with marriages. It is always a good laugh to see a big sign on the restaurant entrance that sound like "Rotted Veggie Wedding Party" when a Mr. Mei and a Miss Choi wedded.EDIT: Corrected a few typos

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 11:00:47 pm
content: Quote from: exe on April 22, 2020, 08:55:57 amI don't know if this is really what happens. I mean, the part that we would be actively looking for danger. Not convinced.But I'm pretty convinced from all studies I've read that superstitions are a form of "autopilot" behavior to help us avoid dangerous situations indeed. The reason we use a lot of autopiloting for this is obvious: in dangerous situations, we may have no time to think. That surely comes from ancient times and we still have it. But don't think we don't *need* it anymore. We're actually on "autopilot" a lot of the time, and I think life would be exhausting if we weren't.Superstitions are reassuring us. I personally think we don't use them to "make danger up" and then have a simple way of avoiding it, but just simply as a way to avoid potential, but real danger. The fact the danger itself has nothing to do with the superstition itself doesn't matter - it just lowers our stress level IMHO. In a way, even though superstitions seem not to make any sense and have any logic behind them, they are a way of making us feel like we have CONTROL over potential danger, instead of just being subjected to it like toys. I think it's a bit similar to religious faith. Although it may at first look like people are just putting their destiny in the hands of some higher being/concept, it also makes them feel like they are in CONTROL of their destiny - provided that they obey to some simple rules.Just my 2 cents.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 11:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2020, 04:57:12 pmA few buildings use the physical 13th floor for mechanical, which may or may not be practical depending on the total height of the building.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 12:04:24 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 22, 2020, 01:38:03 pmAre you still buying it?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 09:21:28 am
content: Quote from: Benta on April 19, 2020, 06:32:26 pmDon't forget the flat earthers and anti-vaxxers!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 09:50:50 am
content: Allegedly, Friday the 13th of October in 1307 was a bad day on earth for the Knights Templar's, when most of them were killed.And since then the number 13 is a fearful and superstitious number.Somehow I like instruments and lab equipment and calculators that have a 13 in their model number.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 09:57:20 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on April 23, 2020, 09:21:28 amWith due respect, I wouldn't be in a hurry to stick in the boots on 'most' anti-vaxxers just yet, who merely raise concerns about what's really in those chemicals.They are not in the numbskull class of creationists, devil tail fondlers, big bang theorists, 'what shape' earthers, President Trump mud slingers,or other attention seekers and paid mis-information PC vending trollsVaccines, that most people run to get themselves jabbed with, to supposedly become impervious to annual sniffles and pandemic class diseases (awesome marketing btw)know nothing about the custom cocktail or placebo being mixed into their blood streamThis isn't WYSIWYG diagnosis and parts replacement in electronics, or preventative car maintenance, or cleaning guttersHeads Up!someone is sticking you with something you know nothing about, and likely they know little or not enough about,whilst the pharma companies that produce it may have got it wrong in the lab and or tests on monkeys seemed ok,and you're stuck with it, perhaps with permanent drama if there's liquid metals or byproducts in the concoction,while they count and pocket your cash either way, and their suits get them off in court, or defer the case for decades

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 02:04:57 pm
content: Or you might get the autisms..You must be skipping your drugs...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 02:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on April 23, 2020, 09:50:50 amThe version I heard as a kid was that at The Last Supper, in the gospel passion story, there were 13 people at the table (Jesus and 12 apostles), and that two were dead (Jesus and Judas) shortly thereafter. As a superstition origin story, it makes sense, but I don’t know when (in history) triskadekaphobia became popular.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 07:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 23, 2020, 12:04:24 amWe're never going to change you believing in most if not all of the kooky stories out there. Just make sure youfollow the bloody regulationsso you don't get people killed. Maybe use the time off to befriend some sensible people like doctors who'll tell you first hand what they're dealing with right now. Well, maybe not right now as they're busy being useful.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 07:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 23, 2020, 09:57:20 amI must echoElectro Detective's concern in agreement. I know people with weaken/compromised immune system. They would be facing a much elevated danger even with weaken virus (which is what vaccine often are made of). Even my house-cat (my kid's cat) has immune issues. We have to be careful with anti-whatever "preventive" injections.By the way - now cats are twice-confirmed victims of the Wuhan Virus. Two infected cats in NYC confirmed.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 08:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on April 23, 2020, 07:54:18 pmThat's why people who know of and understand the nuances are involved who can assess the situation and apply proper treatment. It's not just shooting everyone up and hoping for the best. Protecting the few who can't be vaccinated is also why group immunity and a complete as possible coverage are important. There are various kinds of vaccines of which the "weakened organism" or attentuated vaccine is just one form.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 09:00:57 pm
content: The thing that bothers me about the anti-vaxers is that it's all a bunch of armchair experts with little to no actual medical background or expertise second-guessing the people who actually do know what they're doing. It's no different than the people with no engineering background or expertise who go around pushing free energy scams, over-unity and other bullshit claims. It's people who know just enough to think they understand something while not knowing enough to realize just how little they actually know. In both cases they talk a lot about doing "research" which is in reality nothing more than engaging in confirmation bias surfing youtube and blogs for things that fit their preconceived beliefs, ignoring any actual research that does not support what they already think. It's not research at all, but that doesn't stop them from pushing their backwards incorrect beliefs as fact.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 11:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on April 23, 2020, 07:54:18 pm@ Rick Law:Think twice on those 'echoes' or get ready for what always comes next matethe information gatekeepers are well organized and play the 'majority' mindset well, with loads of questionably sourced statistics and news media 'stories'i.e. whistleblowers, questioners and ~conspiracy coincidence~ point dogs are NOT WELCOME in the controlled debate arena =and the subsequent ubiquitous follow through of troll calling with insinuations of mental deficiency, apathy, distorted deniers logic, and or poor meds managementfwiw I'm not getting 'that' paycheck to play along, nor should you believe that, but everyone locally here in my locale and beyond, is depressed, confused,paranoid and gradually becoming irrational,and many, too many, about to go seriously financially under because of this OBVIOUS global planned-demic taking advantage of clueless populations,conditioned over the decades to exhibit FEAR at the first sign of the common cold/flu sniffles, fatigue, headaches, skin rashes, twilight years issues etcEven if the gubbermint tosses us a honeymooners out of work bone for now, they too will have to borrow from the big banksters eventually to stay afloat,and that means more higher taxes and duties on the already impoverished battlers and small business, just to keep up with the interest payments etcPeople are still going to get sick and die at the same rates and the same maladies, with or without this latest 'mutating' fear fluWith all this going on, 'Fear of number 13...' or other numerology BS doesn't even rateOh and BTW: My sincere best wishes to the owners (staff) of the two confirmed infected cats in NYCand hope a deal goes through in NYC style,so one or two of the nine cat lives can be traded in for immunity against the suspected corona assault

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 11:38:41 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on April 23, 2020, 07:54:18 pmWell, actually, with this one virus, clinical data show a slightly different story.Whereas people with a weak immune system are certainly more likely to get infected and develop symptoms, it has been noticed at this point that they may be less likely to get the very severe condition leading to possible death, in which the immune system suddenly gets crazy (the "cytokine storm"). Of course that seems true for people with real immunodepression. Older people tend to have an immune system that gets progressively defective while not being exactly a state of immunodepression per se, and in this case, the cytokine storm has been noticed.Just a thought, from what I've gathered. I'm no MD.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:58:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 23, 2020, 11:24:25 pmBelieve what you want, as long as you follow the bloody rules.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:36:46 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 24, 2020, 07:58:29 amIs that all you got? bossing me and insinuating I don't follow the rules?FYI: I follow them to the letter and beyond, because not only is it THE right thing to do, and a safe bet,it gives the snitches and trolls nothing to work withand I don't cop peoples BO and death breathI'm happy to wait and do the 'I told you so..' thing when we are all bankrupt and destitute, it won't be a long wait btwknowing full well that some pushing this along won't be out of pocket,nor will they roll up their arm for the magic vaccination that ends the show

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 09:56:14 am
content: If I feared only '0' and '1' I'd be buggered working inBinary!!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 01:40:52 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 24, 2020, 09:36:46 amI'd say that I'm just stating the obvious. The potential issue is that "obvious" tends to mean something different on your end than it usually does. I'm not sure why following regulations would be THE right thing to do if you believe it's all a hoax but I won't argue with the result.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 01:58:37 pm
content: I still don't know for sure what ED's opinion is. It looks like he thinks Covid-19 is some kind of hoax, which in itself doesn't really match with the reality in hospitals and people dying. The reality of the virus itself and its dangerosity is hard to deny?Now the secondary point that he says some people are going to take advantage of the whole situation while the rest of the world will suffer from the recession, I can't really disagree with this. It's very likely what is going to happen. This is what happens with almost every major crisis.But the point that it would be all done on purpose - I have of course no proof of that being completely false, but anyone claiming it should IMO provide at least some proof, according, I guess, to the principle of the burden of proof.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 03:55:05 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 24, 2020, 01:58:37 pmI think Electro Detective is a hoax that became self aware, except aware of his own nature.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:07:32 pm
content: Why have confined us? The society compared with a flock of sheeps.The video is french and subtitled in spanish ,but you can translate to english with the subtitle option.https://youtu.be/SAAHYm8oBTA

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 24, 2020, 04:25:22 pmIt honestly sounds frightening to have conspiracies and malicious intentions hiding behind every tree. It's like Australia, except the spiders are conspiracies.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 06:48:54 pm
content: Beyond the whole conspiracy stuff, there are two main questions here IMO, that appear legit to ask.First is about the virus itself, how bad it really is (it seems again hard to deny that it's worse than seasonal flu), and where exactly it comes from. This last point, from what I've read, is still not completely clear. There are still several hypotheses.Second is indeed about instilling fear into populations all over the world, beginning, as I mentioned in another thread, with the fear of others. Anyone can now be a direct threat to others, without even knowing it. I for one am absolutely not saying this was done on purpose, and just the fact this virus is spreading was enough to have this as a consequence. But i'll just have to admit that it gives great opportunities for population control, and the whole confinement, an excellent exercise to test population compliance.Some will see all this as a plot. Others, like me currently (until I get proof of otherwise), just see this as an opportunity that is likely to be taken by at least some governments to better control their populations. Opportunities are not, in general, causes.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:26:49 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 24, 2020, 06:48:54 pmI don't think governments need a plot. If someone powerful wants to grab more power they can just do so. If the government really wants more control it's easy enough to grab more control, laws get tacked onto unrelated bills all the time, it wouldn't be hard to make up an excuse for any number of things. It doesn't take a conspiracy, heck build a site like Facebook and people are voluntarily handing over their information and privacy to an unknown entity, no dramatic event required.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 23, 2020, 11:38:41 pmCopy that! I heard an interview of a doctor in a Long Island hospital (New York) on an Australian TV channel on youtube. She was saying similar things (that this virus may have different response to weak immune), but I don't recall the details. I do however recall she said being overweight appears to be a (statistically) huge weakness against this virus. That said, my comment was more so on vaccines in general and not on vaccine(s) for this virus alone. I think too many have too much unrealistic trust on medical professional. People are people, most are honorable but some are just profit driven and without a soul.So, you are no MD and giving out advice... Well, head of W.H.O. is also not an M.D., that hasn't stop him from giving out medical advice to the world, so I can't beat you up too hard for doing the same...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 24, 2020, 09:36:46 amUnder what circumstances are you going to say "I told you so"?Do you mean that if it turns out that the social distancing and lockdowns are effective and stop the rapid spreading of the virus and enormous number of deaths then you'll say "I told you so, we didn't need to lock down after all??Do you not believe what is going on in parts of the USA, especially places like New York? Do you think that Australia is fundamentally different and immune to such a thing happening?Frankly to most of us you sound a lot like this guy:https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/04/ohio-man-dies-of-coronavirus-after-calling-it-a-political-ploy.htmlOr this woman:https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/04/texas-woman-claimed-covid-19-media-hoax-can-stopped-faith-days-later-died/Or countless others like them. Realize that since March Covid has killed more than 4x as many in the US as the flu has throughout the entire season and the number is still rising. What makes the situation different for you? How deep in denial can a person get?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 08:55:31 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on April 24, 2020, 08:30:05 pmYes, I can confirm many ICUs over here have reported the same. Being overweight seems a definite factor.Quote from: Rick Law on April 24, 2020, 08:30:05 pmHuh? I was not giving out any advice. Just reporting some information I got from dependable sources, but I was just mentioning I'm no MD, so people would take this preliminary information with a pinch of salt. I hope nobody took this as "advice", whatever that would mean. If anyone thinks what I said meant that any immunodepressed person can just freely move around without risking anything with this virus, that was absolutely not it.Which has nothing to do with the WHO... I remember the "debate" we had a while ago about masks and the WHO's advice.Funny right:http://www.academie-medecine.fr/communique-de-lacademie-pandemie-de-covid-19-mesures-barrieres-renforcees-pendant-le-confinement-et-en-phase-de-sortie-de-confinement/(you can get that translated if you're not familiar with french)English version:http://www.academie-medecine.fr/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Covid-19-pandemic-enhanced-barrier-measures-during-containment-and-in-the-ex-containment-phase.pdf(I've read the english doc and IMHO it's not very good english. I apologize on behalf of the Académie de médecine, and suggest using Google translate instead, as it may lead to a better translation. For native speakers, don't hesitate to confirm.)

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 12:13:53 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 24, 2020, 08:55:31 pmRelax, I was teasing... I was musing over your carefully worded but unnecessary disclaimer, which I also frequently do. Unnecessary as it was clearly an opinion in an exchange of opinions. Contrasted with the head of W.H.O. from whom I think an "I'm no M.D." disclaimer is probably more applicable and necessary.In fact, I found your comment interesting and duly filed in my "he got a point" area in my brain.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 03:33:46 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 24, 2020, 08:34:18 pmNice workplaying on the scaredy cat 'damned if you do/don't' thing.. one of the better debate loop pros huh?But we both know"there's a sucker born every minute"to keep up stocksbut don't forget the classic:"You can fool all the people some of the time,and some of the people all the time,but you cannot fool ALL the people ALL the time."Although it's not impossible it seems in 2020

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 10:36:49 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on April 19, 2020, 08:01:39 amLate to the show... I never make a version 13 of anything. Maybe it is just a gimmic. At some point one of my co-workers asked me where my version 13 was and I explained I never make a version 13. Then he said: my 13th versions are the ones that work.@Electro Detective: stop taunting Darwin. You will lose for sure!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 11:08:30 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 25, 2020, 10:36:49 aminteresting that you brought that upapparently Darwy had a change of mind and sudden diety shift on his deathbed,especially recanting during his last few life puffs, the deluded and or paid BS he was flogging for decadesback in a century when the bored farm hick generation would swallow anything 'new'and the next generations would buy it unquestioned via 'education'Perhaps the beckoning 'downstairs' accommodation was a bit too warm for Darwy's likingso he decided to hedge his spiritual bets ?Might be worth a bit of research mate, look up 'corona scam' too, '13' '666' 'Reptilians' 'yetis' 'UFOs' 'Apollo hoax' ' and other assorted fantasies'friend' Google might slip a result or two if there's a server hiccupi.e. forget Charles Darwin, the real deal money 'evolution' guy was Charles Ponzi

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 06:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 25, 2020, 11:08:30 amFor the record, are you denying Darwin's theories? I mean, they weren't wholly accurate but I don't suppose that's what you're getting at.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 01:01:54 am
content: I can't see the logic or point to deny someone's 'theories', that they themselves recanted on their deathbed'theories' which you also just stated QUOTE'aren't wholly accurate'anyway'theories' like the magical 'big bang'which may have been inspired by a charlatan scientist's loud and outwardly scattered latrine incidentand everyone keeps rolling with it, till a better and less messy 'theory' pops up

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 01:04:28 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 01:01:54 amThat's a yes?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 01:09:00 am
content: what's the play ?are you all scripted up for both yes or no?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 01:33:36 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 01:09:00 amWhy the sudden reticence? I just want to know whether what you suggested is indeed what you intended to say.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 04:10:50 am
content: Um, wow, didn't realize we had such a hardcore science denier in an engineering forum. What next, someone who doesn't believe in the theory of gravity?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 10:08:42 am
content: so it's only Mr. Scram and james_s still supporting the corona fear flu,a sting that's going to soon ruin everyone financially, and leave them without even a sniffle or sneeze to show for it as justificationcome on guys/gals, stay on track please,and lose the tired baiting routines, they are so passe in 2020..assuming Mr. Scram and james_s aren't the same dude

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 10:17:17 am
content: yay! and blueskull the rep in China feeding the stats, makes three still supporting the corona fear fluDoes having an engineering degree, a great memory and passing exams stifle ones ability to spot a simple obvious international money sting operation?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 03:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 10:08:42 amI'm asking a straightforward question. It's not even off track as one can normally assume common ground when discussing something. There seems to be very little common ground between you and the rest of the world so establishing what's what becomes important to have any kind of meaningful debate.By the way, james_s and I are the same person, as is Electro Detective. This forum is a busy box. It's great to have people looking everywhere except at what's right in front of them and staring them in the face. Read this input, then post another message and tell us how you feel about that. Engage with real human beings.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 03:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 10:17:17 amAre you saying you now have a majority opinion?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 05:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 10:08:42 amMr. Scram and I have vehemently disagreed on many things, it would take some serious mental gymnastics to make a case that we were the same dude. The fact that we're on the same page on a few topics that are objectively true is hardly enough to suggest that.If you look back a month or two you'd find that I thought Covid was overblown initially too, but as scientifically minded people do, I altered my view when presented with compelling evidence to the contrary. People really are dying of this thing, ~45,000 so far in my country which is more than double an entire flu season in the space of a few weeks and the number continues to increase. Out of 330,000,000 it's a very small percentage but that's still an awful lot of people.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 10:54:59 pm
content: Since the three of you are the current three main players trying to troll me down about the corona planned-demic,what clever talk will you have down the track for all the battlers here, when they are unemployed, unemployableor businesses broke, with leases and debts to pay off, as well as homes re-mortgaged or repossessed ?which by the way WILL happen in 2020 if they continue this blown out of proportion FEAR campaign,using and or re-labelling the normal maladies and diseases aka 'mutating' flu as 'proof'For the optimists: This 'work from home' and wage benefits 'honeymoon period' can't go on forever,and highly doubtful there will be any immediate 'recovery' or 'boom' time afterwards,as they'll hold off on loans, using some 'ecomomic' bs excuses from insider scum via the locked down 'bought and paid for' news media circus,in order to acquire assets CHEAP, sell with a markup, and then give loansIt's not the first time they've pulled these easy -wealth transfers-, nor the lastWith all your 'engineer' claimed smarts, you three could be helping everyone better and scoring real cred and pointsby diagnosing the suspect data and mainstream news reports seriously,and compare with independent data and reports, instead of passing them off as 'conspiracy theories' or 'quacks'and drag in some real facts and TRUTH about the situation,rather than wasting precious time playing 'shoot the messenger' gamesBut the four of us know 'but that's not how it works..' right ?No doubt the three of you will still be doing well either way, as you are now,and at the end of this fear-demic, if there is an endyou'll help sell it to the suckers following you now, that all the restrictions workedor the magic vaccine did its job. How else can a good CON work without comebacks and fallout, and set the stage for the next easy cash-demicIt's been decades past, and the pharma industry lab rats still haven't a sure fire cure for cancer, the common cold and simple generic flu,just how will they concoct the magic anti-corona vaccine'just in time to save the world..'?Please

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 11:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 25, 2020, 10:36:49 amIn a subtle attempt to get somewhat back on topic:Will windows 13 become the version that actually works?Maybe Windows will be obsolete by then

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 01:33:20 am
content: For a Windows 10 version that works with the tile eye candy, you must upgrade back to Windows 8.1Rest assured all Windows versions from 10 to 20 will no doubt bring many users loads of bad lucktherefore Windows 13 will come and go unnoticedMaybe they'll call it the Halloween Buildto pump it along? We'll find out in 10 years or so

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 01:40:11 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 26, 2020, 10:54:59 pmSet up a thread with your evidence, instead of rescinding when slightly pressed for details. People are willing to review proper data but that's what's been lacking. It'll also keep other threads clean. Just attitude and repetition isn't going to cut it for slow engineering folk.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 02:17:28 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 27, 2020, 01:40:11 amThat's best left to The ThreeAmigosEngineers to kickstart it, and invite all unbiased evidence, chuck in a POLL vote tooand let the members make up their own minds if they still believe it to be a real deal Corona-geddon class Flu-copalypse,or a blown out of proportion fear flu fest, fronting for a shifty economic global swindle to weaken nations and communities,and then pump them back up with debtYou've got a great idea for a thread to benefit skeptics and blind faithers, filter out any trolls and shills etcand since all three engineers claim higher qualifications and better smarts,please be my guest mate

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 11:31:43 am
content: It amazes me how some of my posts/comments over the last few years have brought onwarnings, blocks & locks, but this thread has been so negative for the last few pages!!Just pack away your Cowboy & Indian costumes, and refill the sandpit, shake virtual hands,and stick to talking about 'numbers' as per the O.P.'s dialog.I, for one, must be a bit O.C.D. because I dislike 'odd' numbers! And I always must set saythe TV volume with the Remote to 'even' numbers'. Can't accept it otherwise!!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 12:57:59 pm
content: I frankly didn't know there was a known thing with odd and even numbers per se... but I must admit I tend to "prefer" even numbers for some reason (but it's not obsessive at all, just a mild feeling). I guess they just look more "rounded" or "balanced". But that's probably not very surprising, and we're probably many like this: they are called "even" and "odd" in english - and "odd" has more negative connotations than "even". It's similar in other languages. In french, it's "pair" (for even) and "impair" (for odd), and "impair" has a couple negative meanings as well. as a name, it means "a goof", or a mistake.Dunno exactly where that comes from, but it's likely that we humans tend to see things coming in pairs as "better" or more balanced, possibly because of sexual reproduction and the function of couples. Just a random thought.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 02:53:10 pm
content: If you think avoiding 13 in western cultures is strange, you should see how far the Chinese will go to avoid 4.There might be no 13th floor in a western office building, but many Chinese buildings will have a 13th floor, but skip numbering on floors 4, 14, 24, 34, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 54. etc.My father did the legal paperwork, etc. for people to form corporations for decades. Back when pre-incorporated, numbered "shelf" companies (like 123456 Alberta Ltd.) were more of a thing (back when it typically took weeks to physically file the paperwork and have it processed and returned, instead of the same-day electronic submission of today,) we would try to have at least a few around that avoided having 4s in them, trying to submit a few less when there were likely to be many 4s in the corporate access number (which are assigned sequentially to each corporation as they're formed, and are what fills in the blank when you try to incorporate "__________ Alberta Ltd." for example.)Conversely, we would make extra effort, try to file a bunch of extras, when they would likely have multiple 6s in them. For decades we knew nothing other than many of our Asian clients seemed to specifically not want anything with a 4 in it, but they would ask for 6s. Eventually, someone did explain to him that it was simply that the number 4 (四) sounds like one of the words that means death (死) in Chinese. Therefore it is avoided like the plague in many parts of relatively-superstitious China. Finally one of those things that had created curiosity for many, many years actually made sense.They also said that 6's, while not the only "lucky" number in China, were particularly lucky for things like business ventures. I don't know the backstory on that one, but if we had something like 662966 Alberta Ltd. on the shelf, that would be like heaven for a Chinese business entrepreneur. I don't think we managed to get 666666 but I do remember we submitted a whole bunch around the time when they were assigning 666xxx numbers and did manage to get a swack of them with really "good" numbers. I would have to go back and fire up DataPerfect to take a look at the exact numbers/names from that far back. (They're long past assigning 1666666 now!)Very interesting, the different opinions on things like this in different areas. 666 wouldn't be a number many westerners would want in their business name, but for a Chinese businessman, that would signal good luck and success for the venture.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 08:00:00 pm
content: That leads to the dislike of "666", due to its mention in theRevelation of St Johnas "the number of the Beast".I was surprised to find ZIP-code prefix 666 in Topeka, Kansas, since several 66x prefixes are not in use nearby.US Highway 666 ("the Devil's highway") used to run in northern New Mexico.When it was relabeled to US 491, the old highway signs disappeared very quickly.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 09:55:27 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 27, 2020, 11:31:43 amFor some strange reason, I dislike the digit 4 when doing Soduku. They always feels like hard work....

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 05:26:20 am
content: It's all so odd to me. No number has any particular significance over any other number to me.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 08:37:34 am
content: speak of the devil regarding '6, 66, and full size 666' this Youtuber sussed out Corona in under 'six'ty seconds...QUOTE:"Corona has 6 letters in its nameIndividual Letters C = 3 O = 15 R = 18 O = 15 N = 14 A = 1 = 66When put together = 666Mark of the Beast # is in our faces"=----------------------EDIT: the YT dude needs to brush up on 'evil' mathThe total is 93, but apparently a quick search on the web reveals numerolotards would flip it and say the 9 upside down is really a 6ummm, yeah...Therefore 3 and 6 really means three six/es, which sort of implies 666People that follow this stuff, HELL really must be the place for themwith math like that they'll always be bad with money, broke and miserable up here

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 02:35:19 pm
content: LOL.Note that coronaviruses are nothing new and are actually pretty common:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronavirusSome have been pretty bad like the SARS, but a lot of them (probably the majority in circulation) are relatively mild.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 01:57:32 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 28, 2020, 02:35:19 pmApparently it seems only a few of us know that, and only takes a few clicks here and there to suss it out and get up to speed with what's really going down,but why is everyone else not accepting the heads up free sugar, nor dropping their amusement addictions for a minute, and researching for themselvesand then if still undecided, toss a coin which information to roll with.Does fear, panic and subsequent -MORE- hardship to come, give them woodies or get them moist?It makes no sensenor fair on the rest of us getting dragged down the destitute tubes with them'Sorry we didn't know' or 'we did what THEY told us, to -do the right thing- and ignore deniers'etcwon't cut it as excuses and conversation drivel in the poor houses, soup kitchens, alleyways, parks,deserted construction sites..---------------ED's Comments are now Spell Checked, Evaluated, Self Censored, and Certified'Conspiracy Theory Free'No medication or alcohol (except IPA hand wipes and Glen20 Classic Scent) have influence in any scripting.If any article is amiss in one's opinion, please forward the concern to ED directly,and kindly desist from bothering the already overworked Admin here. ED will of course extend the same courtesy.Thanks in Advance

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 08:10:08 pm
content: Some numbers relevant to Covid-19 in my area, without commentary:Population of Illinois: 12.7 million (roughly half in Chicago metropolitan area).Normal deaths per year (2018-9): 110,000 = 300 per day (entire state).Official Covid-19 deaths in last 5 days: 415 = 83 per day.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:36:21 pm
content: I'm moving to Illinois: less deaths, less idiots (?) so less fear flu panic induced stress causing deathsActually it's still ok here for now, but idiot stocks and unquestioning gullibility levels are still at an all time high,sand and buckets have been hoarded too, now that toilet paper sales are restricted to one per personsand and buckets..?still working that one out,more 'Stay Safe Stay Home' shed and kitchen fires perhaps?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:51:51 pm
content: Well,https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/22/domestic-violence-has-increased-during-coronavirus-lockdownshttps://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(20)30095-5/fulltexthttps://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85916

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 11:49:23 pm
content: Dying from old school domestic violence may still be a better demise optionthan dropping dead from a sudden corona sniffle induced asphyxiation coupled with multiple organ failure ,and falling in front of a moving train, tram, bus, or trampled at 8.59 am at the front door during a 'Closing Down FOREVER Sale!' stampedeor worse..coronafied and collapsing head first, shoulders jammed tight, into a public toilet bowl at the local semi-deserted shopping mallAt least you were taken out in your own -about to be repossessed- homespending the last bit of so so quality time with people you once cared for and vice versa,before corona TERR0Rzero future prospects, dreams shattered, 'work from home' gig pulled,and the usual mounting bills, compounding interest, booze, ice, and general lack of money problems took controlADD low toilet paper and pasta stocks, and Windows 10 or Mac MountainX playing up with ransomware BSODs/GSODs to that volatile mix,and anyone would get slightly agroMessage from the Ether..."Gee, Thanks CoronaI'm in a better place now..."---------------ED's Comments are now Spell Checked, Evaluated, Self Censored, and Certified'Conspiracy Theory Free'No medication or alcohol (except IPA hand wipes and Glen20 Classic Scent) have influence in any scripting.If any article is amiss in one's opinion, please forward the concern to ED directly,and kindly desist from bothering the already overworked Admin here. ED will of course extend the same courtesy.Thanks in Advance

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 01:06:11 am
content: I was just reading yesterday that the USA has passed a grim milestone with as many people in this country having died of Covid as died throughout the entirety of the Vietnam war. While the state I live in has been flat for quite a while now, the overall death rate for the whole nation is still in a steep climb and hospitals still can't get enough protective gear. In the harder hit states morgue space is becoming a serious problem, many have been leasing refrigerated tractor trailers normally used for shipping frozen food and using them to store corpses. One was using rented U-haul trucks to store them on ice.On the bright side I suspect flue deaths will be low for a few seasons after this, and overall infections disease rates will be low for a while. Stopping the spread of Covid also stops the spread of numerous less virulent diseases.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 01:35:03 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 01, 2020, 01:06:11 amok.. what rag were you reading for startersand some confirmed proof please,or 'it didn't happen' anywhere beyond your QUOTE"the state I live in has been flat for quite a while now"as it has been in my state also, half a world away..'flat' = nothing happening out of the ordinary that didn't happen last year, or in 2010or two minutes past 11:59 pm, on December 31st 1999

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 11:24:43 pm
content: https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/large-flock-seagulls-beach-all-looking-same-direction-except-one-center-124740.jpg