Brymen BM867s ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 06:59:27 am
content: Hi AllWanted to make a one time investment on a decent DMM and after a bit of research, I kinda locked on to the BM869s. Wanting to keep the budget a bit lower, started considering the BM867s.My major use for the DMM would be for electronics projects. I would also be using it to repair consumer electronics devices occasionally (and other occasional mains use). Does a BM867s fit the bill ?I am hoping to add one of those budget DSOs sometime in the near future as well...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 08:35:29 am
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 03, 2021, 06:59:27 amYes it does.But ... personally I'd go for the BM857 because it's a much simpler user interface - less feature overload.eg. The selector position for Ohms/continuity on the BM857s doesn't have nS on it (which you'll probably never use). This means you won't have to cycle through nS every time you want to go back to Ohms when you've been using continuity.Brymens have a feature that they remember their last setting even when you turn them off. There's no escape from going through nS every time you use continuity then want to go back to Ohms. This is something you'll do alot.IMHO the BM857s is the "perfect storm" of the Brymen range. It's got all the features you really need in the simplest possible package. It's also a lot smaller than the big curvy dual-display Brymens and the "industrial" design means the screen is more recessed and protected against accidents.The looks? That's obviously a question of taste. I quite like it.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 10:12:41 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 08:35:29 amThanks for the input.Anyhow, I actually do not mind the size (It will most likely be always on my bench). My only doubt was if the 867/869 itself is well suited for the kind of work I usually do. Also, this would most likely be a one time investment (at least I want it to be! Hopefully, it would last a lifetime!) for me, and so wanted it to be "right".

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 10:30:20 am
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 03, 2021, 10:12:41 amQuote from: nubinstanley on May 03, 2021, 10:12:41 amIt's probably overkill.PS: You need more than one meter. I'd get an AliExpress special as well as a Brymen. It's educational, good for reference, and you need it. :-)eg.This one(Get the base one, the accessory kit is rubbish. Get somegold probesinstead)Edit: Getgold probes for your Brymen, too. They're only 10 Euros and well worth it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 11:08:11 am
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 03, 2021, 06:59:27 amYes, great meter. Only major downsideis that it's physically very large. Not the best for small work spaces.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 11:09:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 10:30:20 amI'd second that. Two cheaper meters is likely to will be more useful than one expensive one. And the left over money can buy other stuff.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 12:53:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 10:30:20 amOverkill is OK.I already have a cheapo UNI-T with me. Hopefully that can serve as the second meter for the time being. Will look into the probes.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 12:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 03, 2021, 11:08:11 amQuote from: EEVblog on May 03, 2021, 11:09:40 am

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 03:46:53 pm
content: Yeah, get the 867s, you will not be disappointed if you do, the switching between continuity and resistance is not that much of an issue, and in any case you could always use the UNI-T for the continuity to avoid that small issue of the n$ range.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 06:58:12 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on May 03, 2021, 03:46:53 pmThat particular Brymen isn'ttoobad with the function overloading.eg. The meters with temperature will usually combine capacitance/diode together so that's another small annoyance. More features = more overloading, so it goes...

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 07:55:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 10:30:20 amIn my experience, Brymen probes are crap. My Brymen probes has 0.08-0.16 Ω when I bought it with my BM867S and now, after 2-3 years of rare usage at home conditions it has floating 0.2-0.4 Ω. I tried to clean its banana plugs with rubber and ethanol, but it doesn't help. The only way to restore 0.08 Ω is to move and pull the wire near banana plugs, at some position it returns to 0.08 Ω, but if I leave it for some time, it returns back to floating state with 0.2-0.4 Ω. It looks that there is a bad contact between wire and banana plug inside plastic.For example, just tested them - 0.51 Ω.I asked Brymen why it happens and they said the following:QuoteBut relative offset button doesn't helps. because probe resistance is randomly floating when you use it. If you set zero on DMM, it will show some offset when you move probes, because their resistance is changed. When it was new, the floating resistance was not a huge, it has floating from about 0.08 to 0.16 Ω and you can close eyes on that. I thought that this is related with temperature dependency. But after 1-2 years it drops to 0.2-0.4 Ω and this is not acceptable.I tested my DMM with Chinese silicone wires 1 meter each with banana plugs to make sure that this issue is related to the probes and not to DMM. I bought these wires on aliexpress for 8 USD for 5 pieces and they show 0.01-0.02 Ω despite the fact that I bought them about 1 year ago. And there is no floating resistance with Chinese wires, like it happens with Brymen probes.So I don't recommend these probes, they are not reliable, they have floating resistance issue just out of the box. And this floating resistance will be much worse after 1-2 years, because something is oxidized inside. I'm not sure if this is common issue for Brymen probes or I got just a defective probes, but as Brymen said - they don't use soldering, so at a glance it looks like the reason why they are oxidized.They are gold plated and it really helps to get contact without pressure on probes, but their internal resistance which is floating when you use probes just make them useless for resistance measurements. You will need to use another probes or wires when you needs to measure low resistnace.Regarding to the Brymen BM867S, that's my model and this is really good DMM. I can recommend it. But note that there is needs to buy a replacement probes, because branded one which comes with Brymen DMM has a bad quality.The main difference between BM867 and BM869 is that BM869 has better precision for RMS voltage measurement and works up to 100 kHz. Also BM869 has temperature probes and a little better precision for voltage measurement. Nothig else.

author: nez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 10:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on May 03, 2021, 07:55:19 pmYeah I have the exact same problem, and it's annoying. I likewise can mess around with the wires next to the connectors to get them back to 0.08 ohms, but the hidden contacts' resistances drift back up after a while.I'm probably going to order some leads from Probe Master since I've seen a variety of people recommending them. The small downside is I lose the form factor of the leads that fit into the holders on the DMM rubber case..Aside from the Brymen test leads, I do love the DMM itself (BM869s).

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 06:39:19 am
content: Quote from: nez on May 03, 2021, 10:06:52 pmI also read good feedback about Probe Master golden plated leads.Does somebody have it? What about their resistance?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 09:12:30 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on May 03, 2021, 07:55:19 pmFWIW I just checked mine and it said 0.06 Ohms.I've never noticed a problem but I hardly ever measure very low resistances so that's not surprising. If I did then I'd either look into other leads or techniques. I'd probably want something much sharper/needle-like anyway (eg. those $3 cheapies).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 09:25:19 am
content: @nubinstanley, as others have confirmed, your choice for the BM867S is good and its other limitations w.r.t. to your original BM869S choice are the temperature and the lower bandwidth (20kHz instead of 100kHz for the 869). Unless you are working with audio and is interested in measuring the upper echelons of the frequency band, it should be alright.Regarding probes, many threads in this forum praise Probe Master for its quality and features - even Dave made a video about it a long time ago. Just one aspect if you care for aesthetics: check the thread below for information about the banana jacks that may not be fully inserted depending on the model purchased.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/probe-master-test-leads/Good luck in your purchase!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 10:07:12 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 04, 2021, 09:25:19 amThat's what oscilloscopes are for.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 01:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2021, 10:07:12 amBut not as accurate.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 02:18:18 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on May 03, 2021, 03:46:53 pm

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 02:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 06:58:12 pmThe BM867s has single channel temp measurement right ? Hopefully, it comes with one temp probe ?

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 02:25:22 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 04, 2021, 09:25:19 amThank you for the inputANd, I have already asked this question, but lemme repeat.The 867s supports single channel temp measurement ? So, it should come with one temp probe ?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 02:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 04, 2021, 02:20:19 pmNope.Edit: But the cheapo Alixpress AN870 does - which is another reasonyou need more then one meter(did I say that already?)

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 03:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 04, 2021, 02:25:22 pmI have a BM867s, and I have found it to be an excellent, reliable meter. It does not support temperature measurements as a setting on the meter. That is reserved specifically for the 869s. By the way, when purchasing a new 867s or 869s, make sure you ask the vendor to give you the one with the latest firmware on it. The most recent firmware has the longer duration backlight (256 seconds rather than 16 seconds). I have found the 16 second backlight to be basically useless, and you definitely want to get the version with the longer backlight.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 05:28:05 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 03, 2021, 06:59:27 amSo it's a one time buy suggesting that's the last DMM you will ever purchase. Let's assume you're 40 years old and will die at the age of 60. I suspect the meter if not abused will out live you. Say the meter you want costs $400 but you plan to settle for one that costs $100 to save that upfront cost. The $400 meter was $20/yearish assuming you don't make any investments. Or $1.70 / month.I would have no idea what meter would fit your needs but I recommend that is what you buy. I often receive comments from people wanting to modify their meters because they bought something that didn't meet their needs.Personally, I still use the bench meters a fair amount but use both the BM869s and the Fluke 189. I like meters that can display more than one parameter. I use the two K-type inputs on the 869s. The UNI-T UT181A and Brymen BM789 also have this feature. I would like to combine some of the features from about five of them that I have looked at.Enjoy your new meter.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 06:32:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 04, 2021, 05:28:05 pma) Some of us have spouses ("SWMBO")b) I don't know of any $400 meter that's significantly better than a $200 Brymen. Many famous $400 meters are worse.c) A $200 meter is already in the "luxury item" area. It may be better to go the opposite way and use a $25 meter for a while until you have everything else sorted out. Multimeters are about the only item where the cheapo $25 option actually works. You can't say that about cheapo oscilloscopes, etc.

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 10:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 03, 2021, 08:35:29 amWhat Fungus tries to tell you is that too much of anything can be a burden. The 869s/867s for a hobbyist is like an SUV in a small garage. It will make you happy when you buy it. Dreaming about camping in the woods. But in reality you struggle to find a parking place at your local grocery market (ok, here in Europe parking a car can be a real challenge).I know, you want to be prepared to master all those measurement tasks to come. But believe me, a Fluke 115 will be a superb overall answer. The more you use it the more you love it. Or a nice EEVBlog BM235. Together with your cheap DSO and a 1k resistor (for measuring uAmps once a year) you are ready for your electronics adventures.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 05:31:18 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2021, 02:29:26 pmThe why does the product page say so ?https://brymen.eu/shop/bm867s/

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 05:34:48 am
content: Quote from: SMB784 on May 04, 2021, 03:39:49 pm

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 05:41:47 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 04, 2021, 05:28:05 pmWhile what you said about the money aspect in the long run makes sense, I have to spend the money now and the decision itself has so many other factors.Its not actually about affordability, rather about coming to a "balanced" and "justified" decision (if that makes sense!).

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 05:51:07 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 04, 2021, 06:32:39 pma) True that.c) I had dropped a mail to Brymen to find a reseller in India. The reseller in India directed me to the local dealer. The local dealer was pretty amused by the fact that I wanted a BM869s and in the end he congratulated me and said that I would be the first person to buy an 869s from them for personal use.BTW, an 869s after taxes would come to around 325 USD here in India.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 05:54:05 am
content: Quote from: pjwum on May 04, 2021, 10:03:09 pmNothing against what you said, but I have already come past that internal battle....A decision needed to be taken.... The Brymen it is...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 12:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 05, 2021, 05:41:47 amYou're the only one that it needs to make sense to.I've never been in a situation where I had to spend money for home in a certain time frame. At least for my electronics hobby, I take my time and do a fair amount of research to find something that best fits my needs.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 12:31:48 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 05, 2021, 12:05:24 pmWell, yeah.Which is how/why I kinda shortlisted the 867. I just wanted to ensure that I am going in the right direction with an 867 (given the kind of use I have for it).Anyhow, I assumed that the 867 comes with a single channel temp measurement option (as per the website at least). I would want that feature to occasionally measure the temps on my 3D printer. Looks like I may have to move towards the 869.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 04:19:09 pm
content: You will be happy with either choice. Since you feel that you will use the temperature feature, go for the BM869 then.My first meter with temperature was a Fluke 179 bought many years ago - at first I thought it would be simply a gimmick but I ended up using it quite a lot, thus I consider an important feature of a modern DMM especially if you do not have anything else around - or another meter without this feature.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 04:46:40 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 05, 2021, 04:19:09 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 07:36:23 am
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 05, 2021, 05:51:07 amYikes. I wouldn't pay that for it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 07:41:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 06, 2021, 07:36:23 amI wonder how much a Fluke costs there?But yeah, I'm sure Brymen (or somebody else) will do worldwide shipping and you can pay European prices.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 08:02:45 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 06, 2021, 07:41:26 amI have India disabled on my DHL system, can't remember why, so I did a quote check and got thisAnd the quote was AU$132 for shipping!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 08:19:40 am
content: Welectron will ship it for 19.9 Euros.I don't know what Indian customs will make of it though.(probably "a meal" - DHL areverydiligent about making sure they get their cut of any customs processing)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 08:21:48 am
content: Hang on, I just realised that I wasn't logged in when I made that quote. Will have to check.Oh, much better!

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 11:48:02 am
content: If I try purchasing from Welectron, the price of the meter is shown as 175.63 Euros (no VAT ?) and after shipping/discount, the price is around 192.02 Euros (231 USD - all currency conversions from google).Including customs duty (as per calculation from a govt. website) : 295 USD (~27.7% duty)But I somehow feel that the customs duty is gonna be higher. I remember doing similar calculations when I imported my 3D printer from Europe. I finally had to pay around 40% customs duty!! Well, the HSN codes are going to be different, but... who knows !!With 40% duty : 323 USDLowest offer from local dealer : 308 USDI can also source it locally for a lower price than this if I choose to not get a bill. I am not comfortable with this anyhow.As long as the meter is not manufactured in India, I would assume that the price structure would look something similar.Well, thats how much I have to spend.This is also true for the Rigol/Siglent DSOs.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 11:54:17 am
content: And BTW, why does the Brymen site say that the 867s has temp measurement ?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 01:10:45 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 06, 2021, 11:54:17 amThe Page for the 857s also has the wrong photo:https://brymen.eu/shop/bm857s/If you go by that image the 857 hasdualtemperature.Click the link for the data sheet. They usually get it right, unlike whoever makes the web page..

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 01:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 06, 2021, 11:48:02 amI could ship you a almost worthless "broken used"BM786 for US$160

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 02:11:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 06, 2021, 01:10:45 pmWell, the datasheet is kinda vague too...As per the chart, the 867s does not support T2-T1 temp measurement. It doesn't exactly say that there is no single channel temp measurement.Anyhow, the pic doesn't show a "T" position around the dial.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 02:13:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 06, 2021, 01:32:45 pmC'mon... make me an offer I can't refuse.Throw in an "almost gonna die" DSO with that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 11:47:05 pm
content: Quote from: nubinstanley on May 06, 2021, 11:48:02 amDistributors/bulk importers only need pay the import taxes on their trade cost price whereas private buyers pay the import costs on retail price which is why it's normally cheaper (but not always) to purchase from your local supplier.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 11:18:32 am
content: They don't seem to sell the Brymen BM869s in the USA. Anyone know where I should buy one in the USA?Research the web and some said it's the same as the Greenlee DM860a but the Greenlee is selling for more than $400 in the USA.

author: SMB784
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 12:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 07, 2021, 11:18:32 amYeah they don't sell them here unless its greenlee and those are way too expensive. Get it fromhttps://www.welectron.com/orhttps://www.tme.com/us/en-us/It's literally cheaper to ship it form overseas than to buy from Greenlee

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 01:33:28 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on May 07, 2021, 11:18:32 amTME has them:https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/bm869/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm869s/Plus there's an EEVBLOG discount (if you can find it...)

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 02:27:42 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 06, 2021, 11:47:05 pmIf the govt. website customs calculator is accurate, it would be a little bit cheaper to import. But, I guess the extra I end up paying would be worth it, in case I have some issues with the meter.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 02:28:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 07, 2021, 01:33:28 pmYou can get a 5% discount from Welectron as well.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 03:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 07, 2021, 01:33:28 pmThat's where I got mine from (BM869S seems to be out of stock now, though). I wasn't aware of the eevblog discount, but the price was great anyways (they don't charge VAT to US customers). The shipping was cheap and fast, too.I highly recommend TME.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 05:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on May 07, 2021, 03:05:34 pmSame here. I bought a few items from them and their service, prices and shipping to US are very good.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 06:42:19 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 07, 2021, 05:02:47 pmI dropped them when they would not sell a device to me, it was too expensive ($2000) and obvious they where not satisfied with the usual prepayment (of the full amount). I did ask them for a higher credit limit, but they never bothered answered (At that time I had already bought a couple of items). I found the item at another dealer that did not have any problems selling prepaid stuff.

author: nubinstanley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2021, 02:55:01 am
content: Hi AllPicked up the 869s yesterday.Thanks for all the help.

author: pcee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2021, 02:34:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 03, 2021, 11:09:40 amI’m sure this is a stupid question, but why the love for two meters? A meter plus DSO I understand, but the 2 DMMs eludes me.Also, it looks like the 857s comes with gold-plated leads. Are those different from the gold probes linked above?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2021, 01:27:18 pm
content: Quote from: pcee on June 21, 2021, 02:34:42 amTwo meters is usually a good combination as it can give you simultaneous voltage and current measurements - something that can be done with the oscilloscope and a DMM as well (although the scope has much lower resolution than any meter).Another aspect is to double-check your instrument in case you suspect a reading is wrong due to harmonics, frequency of signal, an uncovered defect, etc. Ideally the recommendation is also done to avoid breaking the bank - i.e., having one very good meter and one average.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2021, 03:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: pcee on June 21, 2021, 02:34:42 amThere's measurements that require 4 DMMs simultaneously.

author: pcee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2021, 02:09:21 am
content: Are the gold-tipped probes included with the 857s any worse than the separate ones you linked.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 09:09:21 am
content: Hello DMM experts,Just to wake up an old thread. I have one question.Does somebody measure the AC bandwidth of BM867S?Thanks in advance

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 09:41:35 am
content: I don't have the exact answer to your question but this came to mind:https://lygte-info.dk/info/DMMFrequencyResponse%20UK.html#Brymen_BM829sThe odds are good that the BM867s might be similar to the BM829s (or only slightly better), since the "100kHz AC, AC+DC Voltage Bandwidth" is a bullet point for the BM869s:https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/brymen/Brymen_BM860s_Datasheet.pdfThere are also quite a few places in the Electrical Specifications section where the BM867s has "Unspec'd" listed, so it seems the BM869s would be the better choice.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 11:15:13 am
content: Thanks for the input. They are two resons why I asked for 867s1. I already have BM869s + USB-PC dongle. I have already write python library for this dongle.2. Price difference with 869s -160Euro vs 217Euro with all taxes. and shipments.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 01:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: miro123 on September 11, 2022, 09:09:21 amDatasheet clearly says 100kHz and which ranges it's specified on. I doubt Brymen are making it up.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 03:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 11, 2022, 01:15:23 pmThanks for the infoCould you send me an link with datasheet specifying AC BW=100KHz?==I cannot find any evidence that AC BW of BM867s is 100KHz.BM869s is clearly specified until 100KHz1. EU and global website catalog expelisitly says no for BM867S and yes for BM869s - see page 2 of link belowhttp://www.brymen.com/images/ProductsList/BM860s_List/BM860s_Catalog.pdf2. User manual - page 19 gives unspecified accuracy for 20KHz...100KHz and 20Hz..45Hzhttp://www.brymen.com/images/ProductsList/BM860s_List/BM860s-manual-print1-IEC61010-1-3rd-r3.pdf

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 05:17:23 pm
content: Quote from: miro123 on September 11, 2022, 03:20:52 pmOh, no. My bad. 867s is only 20kHz.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 06:12:37 pm
content: I cannot help for BM867, but I did measurement of BM869S... It is better than specified...

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2022, 12:58:34 pm
content: Thanks for the input,I've just checked one old fluke 187, I don't have such professional setup as yours . I used rigol MSO7054 function generator and manually change the frequencies - same setting as yours 1vpp AC You BM869 went from 0,707V to 0,6V rns at 280KHz while Fluke went to 0,600V at 174KHz. That said - the flatness on both dmm's up until 100KHz seems similar. Your bm869s seems over compensated arrount 100KHz while Fluke begins smoothly decrease from 92KHz I'll test my BM869 tomorrow.

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2022, 03:45:04 pm
content: Hello,i just did a quick test with my BM867s and a SDG1032X. Below is the result. I don't know whether the deviation is caused by generator or multimeter since my second multimeter is not here at the moment.SDG1032X was set to 2,828V peak-peak in order to get approx 1V rms. BM867s was in auto range but remained in 5V range during all measurements.Will test again when my Fluke multimeter is back to compare results.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2022, 06:58:54 pm
content: For sure that is the BM867s?? Will be an interesting discovery if the BM867s and BM869s are essentially the same in this regard despite Brymen's claims.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 08:37:19 am
content: Quote from: J-R on September 15, 2022, 06:58:54 pmIf you look at findings so far there is huge difference between Brymen BM869s and BM867s

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 08:50:05 am
content: I've tested my brymen 869s vs Fluke 187Here are my findings.- BM869s shows the frequency up until 99.99Khz Fluke does not have this function at all- BM869s shows the frequency 1 digit lower - e.g. 80KHz shows as 79.99Test setup- Rigol MSO5074 function generator set to amplitude 1V, 0Vdc- manual adjusted to pre-defined frequency- grapph shows normalized deviation to DMM own measurement at 50Hz- graph shows data up until specified 100KHz - both DMMs declines sharply above specified range- BM869 have strange overcompensation, personly I prefer the Fluke plot - #1 it is still acurate to specified range #2 Immune to nises above specification.That siad - BM869s holds its own - BM869s flatnes up unitl 1KHz is implesive - maybe this parameter is more important in real live.What is your opinion?BRMiro-

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 09:02:55 am
content: Quote from: Domitronic on September 15, 2022, 03:45:04 pmThanks for efforts and sharing,Can you perform next measurements at 2Vpp - then we can easily compare them to other test results? - My & 2N3055I observe the following issues- BM867s shows also the frequency 1 digit lower e.g x.99KHz instead of (x+1),00KHz -- same as BM869s- huge difference in 0..100KHz range between BM869s/Fluke187 and BM867s +-0,8% vs +-4%- already at 5KHz BM867s is 3% off - It is still within Brymen specs, but this is definitely showstopper for me.- Why BM867s characteristics goes up at MHz range? - what type of cable do you use, Do you terminate the coax cable at the end?If the next BM867s measurement confirms the same characteristics - I'll byte the bullet and buy BM869s

author: Domitronic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 09:58:56 am
content: Quote from: miro123 on September 16, 2022, 09:02:55 amI could, but then the tolerance is even higher because it is below 15% of the 5V range. This means another 100 digits between 1kHz and 20kHz in addition to already very high 2dB.QuoteAs you can see in my results my BM867s is already more than 8% off at 100kHz.QuoteI did not test in MHz range, only up to 150kHz as you can see in my results. Looks like the BM867s is definitely the wrong meter for you. Above 1KHz the specified tolerance is 2db. So not really usabale if 3% are already a showstopper for you. And above 20kHz its not even specified. I would recommend to just get the BM869s or any other meter that meets your requirements. Its wasted money to buy a meter that doesn't meet your requirements.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 10:17:34 am
content: Thanks everyone who help me clarify my next purchase.I'm power electronics/software developer.The most signals that I measure are distorted, with higher harmonics and even worse, the pwm signals are still visible somehow. That is mostly true during development phase. The final product is good .ThanksMiro

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 11:17:13 am
content: Quote from: miro123 on September 16, 2022, 10:17:34 amWhat are you trying to measure exactly? Is DMM right tool for that?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 02:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: miro123 on September 16, 2022, 10:17:34 amSounds like a job for an oscilloscope, not a multimeter.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2022, 02:59:48 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 16, 2022, 11:17:13 amHard to answer this question. The list is endless.It is pretty much everything for what I have done the last 20 years with Fluke 187/189 in the lab and Fluke 87 in the field.I have BM869s for 3 years. I would say that I start to trust on this meter.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 20, 2022, 06:06:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 16, 2022, 02:25:01 pmYeah, sounds more liek a job for a portable scope like one of the Micsig's or a Fluke Scopemeter

author: charonme
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 17, 2023, 04:24:32 pm
content: my BM867s came with probes that now measure around 12 ohms and fluctuate wildly. I tried various other probes, even crocodile ones and they were all even much worse except the two set of probes that came with my cheap uni-t clamp ammeter (stab and crocodile), they both show around 0.2 ohms

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2023, 12:51:29 am
content: Quote from: charonme on October 17, 2023, 04:24:32 pmCan you post a photo showing this situation and the leads?Regardless, test leads are going to be considered a disposable item, so if the internal wires are broken or they have some other damage, then just buy some replacements. The official Brymen silicone leads are only about $10USD.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2023, 02:40:56 am
content: Quote from: J-R on October 18, 2023, 12:51:29 amBut they don't cost these money, it seems that defective probes with high or floating resistance is a common issue of Brymen brand...My Brymen probes had such issue just out of the box, and at least 2 people from this thread also reported the same issue.As I said before, I wrote them email about that issue and they respond that this issue is normal for their production, because they don't using soldering "For reliability, our test lead design uses mechanical grab" and "You may use Relative feature to offset it."...They propose to use Relative feature because their probes have floating resistance from 0.08 to 1-2 Ω...That's all what you needs to know about Brymen probes...

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2023, 05:05:02 am
content: I just tested NINE sets of the Brymen test leads I have and none have that issue. I also checked this thread and only see a report from you and one other person. It doesn't appear to be too common.'charonme' reported 12 ohms and a lot of fluctuations. That is a completely different scenario and clearly the test leads are faulty/dirty/corroded/etc.The only test leads I've had this issue was a modular set from Fluke, and they promptly sent me two free sets as soon as I e-mailed them about it along with my serial number.However, it's true the Brymen leads are targeted at a budget price point, so if you need something better then by all means go buy something else.Lastly, for measuring low resistances the generally accepted method is via 4-wire Kelvin.