SCORE!  Bought a bunch of stuff on a pallet sale - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:01:52 pm
content: I just picked these up. They are mostly the RF sections of HP8568, along with some older stuff. I don't really know what to do with THIS many RF sections..... Spare parts for life? Anyway, I just wanted to gloat.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:07:01 pm
content: This post is useless without a pricetag.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:27:03 pm
content: Well.... I'm not selling them.... yet.At some point in future, I'll probably some up for sale.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:30:33 pm
content: No, no!In order for you to goat, we need to know your purchase price!

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:38:55 pm
content: I think what he means is how much did you pay for that "score"? If you paid 50,000 bucks, that's not a score, is it? If you paid, say, 50, now we're talking.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 05:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 07, 2018, 05:38:55 pmYep, that's what I meant.I'm not sure how happy I can feel about this.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:18:15 pm
content: I'd rather no say the exact amount. But I can say this much. I'm pretty happy. Now, I have no idea if any of them work. All it was said was, they have not been cannibalized.Tell you guys what. After I go through with what's here, I'm going to take ones that doesn't work, try to get them to work, and if that was going to be too much work, there will be parts boxes. I don't mind parting them out. They are just so DARN heavy to ship them in whole.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 06:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 07, 2018, 05:38:55 pm50 of what? 50 of paperweights? nah! we are not talking.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 07:05:06 pm
content: OK guys.... I paid $300 for the lot.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 09:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 07, 2018, 06:38:19 pmA 6kg boat anchor is worth $135 on ebay.Quote from: tkamiya on September 07, 2018, 07:05:06 pmNot bad. I guess.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 09:22:32 pm
content: Yes, but 8568B isn't 6kg. Feels like 30Kg'ish to me.Thanks for the idea though. I'll advertise it in boating goods section.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 09:55:46 pm
content: Surely out of all those units you can get a couple that are "tip top" buddy? You better look in a couple too, make sure they aren't filled with bricks or something.If you get a couple fixed up to 100% then part out some bits or whatever you should get at least your money's worth back right?I don't even know where to start on things like that.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2018, 10:51:47 pm
content: Right. I would be skeptical if this was an Ebay deal. I don't think I'll do site unseen. But what I didn't say before was I have a relationship with this business already, and I trust its staff and owner.I've gone through 7 of 8568B and few had issues. So far, 5 out of 7 are perfectly good. I still have about the same number to go through, so I'll just have to see. Calibration appears to be pretty much spot on. I'm doing this for fun, so I'm pretty pleased at the moment - and that's a big deal for me at this juncture.Little off to the side and out of photograph is, there is a R&S signal generator. It has some issues so I'm looking for a service manual. It's great when money and carrier is not riding on it.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 12:24:49 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 07, 2018, 09:22:32 pmBoat anchor is the humorous, but by no means derogatory, name that we give to vintage, and usually heavy, equipment. There's even kind of a "museum" for boat anchorshttp://bama.edebris.com/manuals/with many manuals reproduced with permission of Keysight/Agilent/HP/Whatever.If you decide to inspect/repair/calibrate/tear down those units and post photos, that will give us an interesting thread.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 02:25:18 am
content: Yes, I know. You were kidding so I responded in kind.... I am a ham radio guy and I love stuff from 80s.I made my first path. Cleaning and checking basic functions. Made sure cal signal is received and looks right. YTO locks and is stable. No strange errors. Out of 14, 10 were good or only required minor fixes. 2 are seriously dead and will become source of parts. 2 are project boxes - likely fixable but why....? So the results were amazingly good. Amazingly, most of them held calibration. Some are dead on and few were 2 db or so lower. Good enough for me.Now, what do I do with THIS many spec analyzers? I only have 2 display sections and 2 pair of cables. Maybe I will place them in circle, sit in middle of them, light candles, and meditate. I hear electric magnetic fields are good for meditation.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 02:59:55 am
content: Keep the best one, fix the rest, sell them off and use funds to acquire more gear!

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 03:03:04 am
content: Ah.... recursive loops. I LIKE IT.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 03:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 08, 2018, 02:25:18 amPhew!People with a sense of humor is getting rare these days. You never know when a light joke will disturb a distant galaxy.Anyway, I was wondering, quite naively I'm sure, why all these analyzers came without their displays. I mean, is there a use for a "headless" spec analyzer? Other than a spare, perhaps?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 04:54:24 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 07, 2018, 07:05:06 pmSomehow I get the feeling someone is very happy that his/her trash got hauled away and the person picking it up even paid for it.But then again: one man's trash is another man's treasure.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 05:08:13 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on September 08, 2018, 03:25:56 pmA couple of weeks ago I noticed two auctions on eBay. One was a pallet of about ten headless analyzers. The other auction was a pallet of about ten displays for the analyzers. Perhaps someone didn't win both auctions and then sold of the "win"?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 05:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on September 08, 2018, 05:08:13 pmOr now, the displays prices will show up "upgraded"!

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 06:17:38 pm
content: Yeah, I wondered about that, too. The business I bought these from bought them from some other company. I don't know what the agreement there was, but there were whole bunch of RF sections and just a few display sections. So this is a pallet sale of a palate sale. It may "recurs" some more. Most of them are 8568 and few were 8566. On Ebay, there are more RF sections than display. Our sets, NONE came with cables, of course. I have 2 extra pairs but that's it.I can't believe how much people charge for those! I bought some connectors and will be making display interconnect cables soon. Coax ones are easy. But data-bus one is not, since connections aren't 1 to 1. I'm thinking a small PCB with crossed traces may be useful to take care of complexities, and then use a flat ribbon cables with compression fittings. Still some work to be done here. I will come back here and repost if that ever becomes a reality.When I was a young ham in 80s, owning a spectrum analyzers were just a dream. Even used ones back then cost a fortune. Now, I have 10 working and 4 not. Amazing how technology advanced and at each stage, huge amount of test equipment become obsolete and sold off as junks.I often kid around saying I have over a million dollars worth of test equipment <pause> in 1980. Too bad it's 2018 today.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 06:19:30 pm
content: Oh, over this sale, I also got a R&S SMIQ03, 300Khz to 3.3Ghz signal generator. Almost pristine look but it does not work. I will have to work on these shortly.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 06:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 08, 2018, 06:19:30 pmYou did good. But you'll have to work on the "recursive loop"!

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 06:38:49 pm
content: Well.... discussion is ALREADY in progress. Another pallet. Soon, I'll have to buy a forklift and build a bigger workshop.Just recently, I relocated my bed from master bedroom to a smaller room. The master bedroom became my lab. But it's already filling up. Some spilled over to living room. Any time now, my girlfriend will complain....

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 07:17:43 pm
content: QuoteAny time now??? I bet it will be a biggie when it comes, from that description it will have been building for a while!

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 07:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on September 08, 2018, 07:17:43 pmIf the girlfriend is complaining then the wife must be really pissed.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 08:07:22 pm
content: Good thing I don't have one! hehe..... It's just me and my dog. He is also my "lab assistant". Anything I may drop, he'll find it. He gives it back to me when he's done chewing it up.An interesting find. There is one unit I'm working on right now, which "OVEN COLD" message comes up periodically. Located the OCXO and to my surprise, it is marked "X" with a pencil. SOMEONE has been in here.... Replaced it with a unit from another one (junk) and it is fixed. I wonder why someone went through the trouble, found the problem/solution and didn't complete his job? Hum....

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2018, 09:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 08, 2018, 08:07:22 pmMust train him to keep you away from eBay for some periods!

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 01:22:45 am
content: Sorry, I joined the club. ebay is my friend....

author: ollopa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2018, 09:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 07, 2018, 05:01:52 pmMy congratulations and condolencesBeen there done that for an order of magnitude more money, still haven't sold any of the stuff but maybe one of these days...

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2018, 11:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 08, 2018, 04:54:24 pmAccording toWikipedia:One of the first items sold on AuctionWeb[later ebay]was a broken laser pointer for $14.83. Astonished, Omidyar[the founder]contacted the winning bidder to ask if he understood that the laser pointer was broken. In his responding email, the buyer explained: "I'm a collector of broken laser pointers."That pretty much defines us ebay buyers: a bunch of collectors of broken laser pointers for $14.83.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2018, 11:47:59 pm
content: That's interesting..... I guess there isn't a thing that someone doesn't collect somewhere....I used to love buying non-functional or problem Ham Radio gear on eBay, especially 70s to 90s HF radios. They are ruggedly build but because of their age, some stupid thing breaks and many people won't bother fixing them. I buy them as broken and find the problem - fix it - and enjoy. From real examples that I've seen, "Receiver weak" Its front end had a light bulb for fuse. That was burned. Also, attenuator was burned. "Transmitter out". SG (screen grid) switch was off. I have my share of dead-dead stuff but to me, this is like a puzzle. I have my dream station for less than 10th of money - only 30 years later.It's a challenge though these days. Just about anything I'm interested in are classified as "for parts" "not working", and if I read the descriptions, the seller says "it actually works but due to fraud.... etc". I'm really not liking this practice as a buyer. So I end up paying working price with no working guarantees.Anyway, my motto is, don't spend I can't afford losing.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 02:20:33 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 08, 2018, 06:38:49 pmYou have a gf AND your master bedroom is a lab? Something does not add up here

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 02:53:58 am
content: That because you should multiply!

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 07:54:53 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 08, 2018, 06:19:30 pmCheck the 2 backup batteries... likely they are not 3 volts anymore. Prepare for a self cal using default password protected setup. Just finished one not too long ago...

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 09:16:27 pm
content: I kind of knew that but I can't find them. Being an RF equipment, I wasn't going to open all those nicely shielded cards. Would you recall where they were?

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 10:56:30 pm
content: I think I found them (on manual which is not searchable!)Looks like FRO (Front Panel?) and DGEN (Data Generation) modules.... then I have to unlock the general key then each key? This is really different from HP that I'm fast becoming familiar with.Kind of interesting.... Very similar to how German car makers write their manuals...

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 11:08:39 pm
content: OK, they are now spilling out to my living room.It's ok. I can quit this any time.....

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 12:03:44 am
content: We've heard that before ... and can attest to such restraint being a temporary phenomenon.But not to worry. Just pop into the TEA thread if you start feeling anxious.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 12:52:40 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 11, 2018, 11:08:39 pmThat is a thing of beauty.

author: rob.manderson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 01:18:20 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on September 12, 2018, 12:52:40 amMakes me start to drool!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 01:44:04 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 11, 2018, 11:08:39 pmwhat the unit you have most there... the rightmost one? is it a HP VNA? if you can fix that, someone may get interested.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 02:15:07 am
content: Actually, one was just offered to me this afternoon.A big problem though - I don't know how to use it. I don't even have a basic knowledge of it. I understand amplitude and phase. That's it.S-parameter thing looks like a whole new world to me.For now, I'm just happy to sit in the middle of crop circle of SpecAns and have a cold one.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 04:17:56 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 12, 2018, 02:15:07 amcan you tell model number? Or close Photo capture of front panel?

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 04:40:52 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 12, 2018, 02:15:07 amThere are entire college courses devoted to the scattering matrix, so don't feel too bad:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scattering_parametersThey're mainly used to characterize the electrical behavior of a two-port network - sort of like a black box which behaves the same as an arbitrarily complex array of components for a particular frequency and source/load. Very handy if you don't want to analyze the entire circuit each time you want to put a signal through it.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:24:01 am
content: Can we presume the black metal 'gate' in front of them is to keep little hands away?

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:26:43 am
content: Quote from: Towger on September 12, 2018, 05:24:01 amOr dog de-fence.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:50:26 am
content: To defend from THESE little paws....

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:52:44 am
content: Yeah, the black fencing looked to be for zoning off the lab assistant.There's a company that makes LCD replacements for the CRT in the display units. They're rather pricey (~$600 IIRC). However, I wonder how much more is required to make a replacement for the entire display unit, not just the CRT. It'd certainly be nice for all those headless SA's.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:56:49 am
content: No, I don't remember model numbers.... since I wasn't going to work on it anyway. I recall; however, there were circular port with like 8 pins. There were 2 or 4 ports in front. Rotary encoder knob was little higher than middle of the front panel. Really odd placement.... I thought. It's an HP kind. Does it ring a bell?In fact, I have something older here and I have no idea even as to how to test it.I have a few directional couplers, return loss bridge, home made and brand named, SA and TG. With it, I can characterize real portion of filters, amplifiers, antennas, etc. I have yet to master Smith Chart, so imaginary part means nothing to me.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:58:03 am
content: Well all the brains are inside the display unit as that contains the main CPU and ADC that samples the output of the RF section.By the way the CPU in these things is built out of 7400 series logic ALUs, latches and gates. No hardware multiply of course.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:05:04 am
content: On these, the top section, commonly called a display section is quite a bit more than just display stuff. It contains I/F section, graticule generation, RF section controller, etc. So it would be quite a task to recreate it. The RF section, of course, contains RF stuff only.I am not sure if I want to invest another $500 and up to get the LCD display. Rest of the unit is over 30 years old. As I work on these, I realize all the capacitors, connectors, and all the stuff that can deteriorate can go any time. The STUPID cables are causing me some headache. Over the years, pressure contact surfaces lost springiness that they sometime do funky things. I really don't think they are worth keep putting more money into. I think, I would rather get a Rigol with LCD for $1000 more. That would be a rather nice addition.They do have the XYZ output. So I'm thinking an external display would be nice. I have few ideas involving few AD converters and a PC. I also have a plotter, so that can be used as well, EXCEPT the plotter only has a serial input.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:06:26 am
content: No it isn't! The CPU on B models is 68000 running at 8Mhz. A model had HP's home grown calculator based CPU. A to B upgrade was available at one time for something like $5000....

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:07:24 am
content: Well, that's a shame that the "brains" seem to be going into landfills in large numbers. I guess calling it only a "display" wasn't such a good idea on HP's part, either.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:09:56 am
content: and cables.... They end up on Ebay for insane amount of money. I've managed to DIY the coax cable. But the BUS cable is something else. Not being 1-1 connection makes it a complex task to do it right for all the 50 pins.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:11:00 am
content: All I've been doing with all of my test equipment is fixing more test equipment. These are like rabbits. They multiply in duplicates and triplicates.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:45:27 am
content: Oh, yes. That's a completely normal outcome (or problem, depending on how you look at it).

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 03:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on September 11, 2018, 10:56:30 pmYep... here's the photos of the module, and also the Front panel Batt. As usual R/S buries these deeply into the damn thing making it simple to replaceMakes it super simple to steer the customer into buying something new, and modern as well, once they quote replacement prices, if they will even look at it at all... BTW, I had to replace that battery marked 3.46V it would not cut it according to the CAL procedure, and gave ERROR. You may/may not have to do a CAL.