What did computer geeks do before computers?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 11:13:08 am
content: I was watching "explaining computers" on youtube and I thought what would this guy do before computers? Seriously I could not see him doing any other job. Not to make fun of him, but I am, I guess... I couldn't imagine him doing any physical labor or really anything else. What did explaining computers do in cave man times? Explaining what rocks were good for? Or was this personality type hopelessly unemployable until the advent of electricity? Play with gears? Or pipes and valves?

author: blackfin76
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 11:32:18 am
content: I think radio was literally a hot thing back in the days. If you go back even further you may end up with steam engines and siege weapons.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 12:25:21 pm
content: Mechanical clocks.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 12:34:48 pm
content: Telegraphy, physics, electrostatics, chemistry, sailing, fishing, eating, hunting, cooking, sports, horses, anatomy...You can safely assume that people a few hundred years ago had the same general mix of types of personalities as people you see today. Anything that triggers a strong interest and can be studied in depth.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 02:57:25 pm
content: Before the personal computer revolution in the late 70's and 80's, most curious people were electronics hobbyists.In facts it's electronics hobbyists who started the personal computer revolution.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 04:56:03 pm
content: Amateur Radio was a big deal and that goes back a long way - like around 1900. The ARRL Handbook is where you learned electronics. I built my first scope back in the late '50s from plans in that book.Most of the math we used was discovered centuries ago by very bright people. Trigonometry dates back to around 150 BC. During the Great Plague of 1665-6, Newton developed Calculus.I can imagine all these great minds sitting around and inventing all the things we take for granted.Eniac, the first computer, was completed in 1946 so a large segment of the living population postdates the computer. For me, computers became available in 1970 so I've been banging on them for 48 years.Electronic analog computers predate the digital computer and mechanical analog computers go way back BC. I'm sure there were in-house courses presented by experienced users.The brains behind the modern analog computer is Lord Kelvin 1824-1907. His rewriting of differential equations to isolate the highest derivative on the left and all the other stuff on the right leads immediately to programming electronic analog computers.Lots of smart people and I suspect most of them presented material in one way or another.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 05:01:03 pm
content: Cars and Motorbikes and if you could afford it Aeroplanes, Boats, ...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 05:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 09, 2018, 04:56:03 pmBack in the early 2000's I did a Dell warranty repair for a quite old gentleman who actually was involved with building/maintaining Eniac. His stories about it were absolutely fascinating!!!!! A bit OT I know, but had to share.

author: BillB
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 06:10:46 pm
content: The Sears catalog, women's undergarments section. It was rough I tell ya!Seriously, Amateur radio was a probably the major (electronics) geek hobby.

author: JacobPilsen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 06:15:18 pm
content: Blacksmithing, locksmithery...

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 08:56:45 pm
content: John Lennon famously said "Nothing really affected me until I heard Elvis." and "Before Elvis, there was nothing".The "Elvis" of personal computing is the IBM PC released in 1981. It boosted an unprecedented interest in personal computing because of IBM's prestige. The young enthusiasts of that emerging technology were tagged as geeks--a word that existed before 1983, when it was first recorded with that new meaning.So what did geeks do before computers? Many did nothing. Many perhaps were not even born. Some, like Woz, were hams, others, like Jobs, were hippies.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 09:57:39 pm
content: The PC revolution was well under way by the time IBM came out with theirs. The famous Apple II had already been around for 5 years or so, an eternity in computer terms.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 10:05:28 pm
content: Pissing off truckers with CB radios, pissing off neighbours with FM transmitters, pissing off British Telecom as a phone phreaker, pissing off everyone by picking locks and making explosives and smoke bombs (not small ones!)Computers kept me out of jailEdit: some more passtimes of the early 1980s for me I forgot, which usually devolved into something being blown up: radio control models, rockets, bowling, fishing, camping, baiting store detectives.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 10:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on August 09, 2018, 11:13:08 am+ Photography (still and movie),+ Astronomy,+ Rockets,+ Electronics,+ Track (football, soccer, lacross...)+ Swim (regularly or joining club)+ Fishing / hunting/ recreational Skiing+ Chess club,+ Chasing girls (or boys for some),+ Pinball (owning a machine and play at home or playing at arcades),+ Hang out in billiard-hall (pool-hall)+ Martial art clubs+ Join the Boy/Girl Scout, Junior Red Cross, Junior ROTC, Young Archaeologists' Club...+ Reading (fantasies, scientific, romantic, action...)or+ just hang out in the library reading/socializing.and I am sure for some, it would just be staying at home watching TV while snacking - gaining 50 lb every month...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 10:21:21 pm
content: There is a pretty good book I read many years ago by Steven Levy about the beginnings of the computer revolution. At MIT they had a model railroad club. Kids were playing with the old telephone switch gear to automate the layout.Quick search, looks like the PDF is on-line if anyone still reads:http://www.temarium.com/wordpress/wp-content/documentos/Levy_S-Hackers-Heroes-Computer-Revolution.pdf

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 11:36:24 pm
content: I wasn't born far enough back to not have had computers around at all, but most people didn't have them at home when I was growing up in the 80s. Before I got interested in computers I was heavily into electrical and electronics stuff. These days computers have become a mature commodity and I'm not really "into" them so much anymore, they are just a tool that I make (heavy) use of in my other interests.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 11:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 09, 2018, 09:57:39 pmDidn't say otherwise. But we should notice that the PC became a standard and is everywhere, while the Apple II is history.The term geek to denote the cultural phenomenon of popular enthusiasm with information technologies appeared only after the introduction of the IBM PC. The previous success of the Apple II (or should I say Apple ][, Apple //?) was not enough to prompt that perception.But that's not my point. My point is that there were no geeks before computers. So the question "What did geeks do before computers?" has no answer.Of course we can interpret the OP's question as "What did people do before they came in contact with computers and became geeks?" Or "what did people interested in technology do before the advent of computers?" Things like that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 01:03:42 am
content: I think IBM's greatest success here was selling corporations on the value of a PC, and at the time that was a HUGE market compared to the home users. Prior to IBM getting involved, personal computers had a reputation more as toys for geeky hobbyists than as serious tools. The Apple II series was very successful, in the home market it was much more popular than the PC initially and the popularity continued in schools. Unfortunately Apple started to move away from the open, well documented, hacker friendly philosophy with the development of the IIgs and to an even greater extend with the Macintosh. Even with the Apple II, there were only a small number of clone makers and the biggest one, Franklin got into some kind of legal trouble with them and stopped.IBM's PC on the other hand became popular in businesses and they did not aggressively fight the clone manufactures. Between people wanting to have a home computer that was compatible with the one they had at work, and the growing ubiquity of inexpensive clones, "IBM" quickly became the defacto standard. While not lasting as long as the PC clones, the Apple IIe was made right up into 1993 which is a pretty good run and the mostly backward compatible IIgs was popular in schools up into the mid to late 90s.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 02:41:11 am
content: "Cars, Bars, and Mars" was what our girlfriends claimed was all my friends and I were interested in after high school. Later, I did lose interest in cars, well at least in hot rods, and got into photography and astronomy. I developed a fascination with electronics sometime in the 1980s, but got sidetracked by a career in a different field and never had a lot of time for it.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 02:56:53 am
content: He may well have been an electrician in the original meaning of the word

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 04:26:52 am
content: As we appear to be entering the POST-computer era, gaming appears to be the next obsession.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 04:30:40 am
content: I don't think it's a post-computer era, it's a mature commodity computer era. A lot of people who never really needed computers other than for email and browsing the web can now get by with mobile devices, but there are still far more PC's in use today than there were during the PC boom in the 80s and 90s.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 04:34:06 am
content: Perhaps more generally, what did geeks do before computers?They invented things, explored the world around them, and passed their knowledge on to others. A look at what the most famous geeks were up to all the way back to antiquity will give you a good idea.https://www.famousscientists.org/https://www.famousscientists.org/top-scientists-in-antiquity/For example:QuoteNo PC necessary.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:24:42 am
content: Pondered the idea of inventing a wonderful machine that could be used to create a currency based on encryption...I am sure that was the original motivation for making a computer

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 09, 2018, 04:56:03 pm

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 09, 2018, 04:56:03 pmNumberphile has videos showing how they did math long before slide rules by drawing a circle then a triangle and more angles and circles to solve equations we would only dare do on a calculator. I had no idea this was even possible. Guess that's what you do when you have no electricity you start thinking.When I see hard core gamers/coders/hackers I couldn't imagine them not on a omputer.Speaking of things you can't do anymore rememberphreaking which was messing with the pone line? When I was a kid those green boxes in the yard were much fun especially when you could cross people telephone lines or put capacitor circuits on their lines making tons of static that they couldn't figure out. Also there was atrick where you could rerecord answeringmachines to dial log distance or piss people off or piss people off usingtheir long distance. My favorite was the "paisley box" I saw on newsgroups where it was a Honda generator atached to the phone lines with your grandmas paisley wall paper on it. Take that blue box.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:46:49 pm
content: Quote from: BillB on August 09, 2018, 06:10:46 pmOrdering or jerking?I like Fredrick's or VS's.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 09, 2018, 10:05:28 pm

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2018, 10:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 09, 2018, 10:05:28 pmWe have almost exactly the same hobbies (less bowling) but computers almost got me in jail.. Did you know just the retainer alone on a federal case is 5,000$?!?! The post patriot act world effects you even if you don't know about it.I call the people "loss prevention" and many have small man/small penis syndrome. They act like the store merchandise is personal family heirloms . I always liked to say "Whileyou have been followingme realtheives haveprobablybeen stealing. Good job."

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 12:10:52 am
content: I remember a friend's house had two phone lines because there was a family business. We could call two people we knew at the same time and connect them together in conference mode. That made for some pretty amusing moments for a group of 14 year olds.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 01:14:50 am
content: Recreational explosives.

author: andyturk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 01:38:45 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 09, 2018, 10:21:21 pmWTF is up with "Paul Alien" of Microsoft in that text?Proofreading wasn't invented until 1990?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:04:55 am
content: Well, to take my father (still alive at 87) for example, he got degrees in Chemistry and Physics and was a rocket scientist for Lockheed in the 1950's. He ended up writing some early compilers for the computers of the day, because nothing better existed at the time. He switched to academia in the 1960's, specialized in Quantum Chemistry and also helped found the Computer Science Dept when that became a thing.Dad tells stories about making experimental rocket fuels as a teen from chemicals that were not regulated at the time. (Today you'd be investigated as a bomber for trying to get that stuff.)So as a result, I've been exposed to computers practically from birth, which is unusual for someone of my age (61 now). There's a family story about how I pressed the big red emergency stop button on the wall of the computer room at the age of 2. I don't actually remember that one, but it's probably true.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:28:14 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on August 09, 2018, 08:56:45 pmJobs was an electronics hobbyist like Woz. He famously called up either Bill or Dave at HP and asked for some free parts to make a frequency counter. He got the parts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:33:41 am
content: Quote from: james_s on August 10, 2018, 01:03:42 amMake no mistake, the key thing that made the PC popular was business was the spreadsheet. Businesses would buy a computer for the sole reason of running a spreadsheet program.You could have made a computer with Lotus 123 in ROM and if it didn't do anything else it still would have sold like hot cakes.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:51:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2018, 07:33:41 amThat'd be quite the calculator.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:20:23 am
content: The 'breakthrough' in business acceptance of personal computers was VisiCalc, running on the Apple II, long before Lotus 123 appeared, and long before the IBM Personal Computer was a thing. And the idea of a spreadsheet running form ROM was tried, and failed:http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/3509/Convergent-Technologies-WorkSlate/For an eclectic romp through the past, present, and future of computing, I recommend:Tony Hey & Gyuri Pápay,The Computing Universe, Cambridge University Press 2015, ISBN 978-0-521-15018-7

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:33:25 am
content: I remember dialing into a BBS with my first modem in the late 80s and having my mind blown. That was truly the profound moment that made me realize the awesome power of computers. It took another decade after that for the Web to be born and become mainstream, but the writing was on the wall. It is actually kind of mind boggling how fast the world changed in just a couple of decades.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 09:29:23 am
content: Ahhh yes, the ol' BBS :-) I helped setup a 4-6 line in > live view technical site, and 1 or 2 for chip manufacturers. It was awesome !Roaming the swap-meets looking for 64K ram chips at exorbitant prices !! :-)Then along came VIATEL and everything changed ... wrote heaps of code / sites for it. Anyone remember Viatel? We got it from the French I believe.Then Compuserve came along .. Did lots of design for the aussie MicroBee .. etc etc ... ahhhh memories

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 09:34:46 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on August 10, 2018, 10:57:56 pmHere we just got told off by the police. I got caught stealing a linesman’s set out of a BT van once and only got told off. Literally in the 80s no one cared that much.With respect to the store detectives we never stole anything, just grabbed a security tag off the counter and waved it around the sensors on the door and dropped it. The security guy would chase us which was the cheap thrill.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 10:25:28 am
content: In the pre computer period, I spent quite a lot of time repairing andaligning tape recorders, like:Revox G36, A77, B77, A700, Uher Report, Variocord and Royal de LuxeBraun TG 1000 and a bit later Telefunken second hand T9, M5, M10.Avoided other brands like Grundig and consumer Telefunken tape recoderslike the plague.Today I sometimes apply my soldering skills to elderly motherboards and PSUsreplacing bulging caps. Basically just for fun.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 04:58:10 pm
content: Geeks have always been geeks, just driven by different things. Take this guy for example:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_DibnahHe started off his working life as a steeplejack but over the years he became an expert on steam engines and Victorian engineering in general. Then there's this fellow who went on to great things:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_FaradayNo formal education and his first job was apprentice to a bookbinder, that gave him access to lots of science books and the rest as they say is history. Or you can take another amateur scientist from a bit earlier:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_LavoisierHe was a chemistry geek, and a tax collector. Thanks to the French Revolution that didn't turn out too well

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 06:40:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2018, 07:28:14 amYes. He called up Billat his homeand talked with him for 20 minutes and got not only parts but a job at the HP factory that made the counters.Woz can be considered a geekavant la lettre, because he was fascinated with computers way before the term was coined with that meaning.Jobs and Woz were also phreakers. They founded Apple with the money they got by selling blue boxes.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 06:48:57 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on August 11, 2018, 08:20:23 amWell, if you need an eyewitness, none of the professional environments in which I worked in the 80s had personal computers other than IBM PCs (later clones like Compaq). Except for workstations by Sun or HP. And before the IBM PCs they had mainframes.Apples, Amigas, etc. were not even considered.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:02:03 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on August 11, 2018, 06:48:57 pmWhat about all the companies using VisiCalc? VisiCalc was THE APPLICATION that put personal computers in the office.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisiCalc

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:16:19 pm
content: I didn't work for any of them. The first spreadsheet I saw being used in a company was Lotus 1-2-3, the killer app for the IBM PC. In the early 90s, everyone switched to Microsoft Excel.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 07:50:48 pm
content: That was a long time after VisiCalc.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:20:56 pm
content: Precisely. When personal computers finally called the attention of corporations, VisiCalc was already a has-been.Here is a snippet of Jobs official bio by Walter Isaacson that seems to corroborate my perception of that era:When IBM introduced its personal computer in August 1981, Jobs had his team buy one and dissect it. Their consensus was that it sucked*. Chris Espinosa called it "a half-assed, hackneyed attempt", and there was some truth to that. It used old-fashioned command-line prompts and didn't support bitmapped graphical displays. Apple became cocky, not realizing that corporate technology managers might feel more comfortable buying from an established company like IBM rather than one named after a piece of fruit. Bill Gates happened to be visiting Apple headquarters for a meeting on the day the IBM PC was announced. "They didn't seem to care", he said. "It took them a year to realize what had happened".Reflecting its cheeky confidence, Apple took out a full-page ad in theWall Street Journalwith the headline "Welcome, IBM. Seriously". It cleverly positioned the upcoming computer battle as a two-way contest between the spunky and rebellious Apple and the establishment Goliath IBM, conveniently relegating to irrelevance companies such as Commodore, Tandy, and Osborne that were doing just as well as Apple.*They still do.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:38:53 pm
content: The IBM PC came out in 1981, that was 3 years before the Macintosh. What mass produced computer at the time didn't use an "old fashioned" command line? In 1981 I would say a command line interface on a CRT was quite modern.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 10:14:25 pm
content: However the Mac and the Lisa were both well under development at that point and they used graphical interfaces. For Apple, CLI was already seen as an obsolete technology.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 10:18:53 pm
content: That's still not really a fair comparison, when did development of the PC start? If it came out 3 years earlier, then the research and development probably started ~3 years earlier. Apple themselves continued selling the II line up through 1993 and it still used ProDOS. The command line interface remained prominent much later than that, and even today this "obsolete" interface is still widely used. At the time the IBM PC came out, the command line was a perfectly reasonable and modern way to interact with a computer.A GUI is good for beginners but many things are far slower and more cumbersome to do that way. Fortunately today most computers have both.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 11:31:27 pm
content: That's precisely what the text I quoted is about: Apple's myopia at the time.Apple became cocky, not realizing that corporate technology managers might feel more comfortable buying from an established company like IBM rather than one named after a piece of fruit. Bill Gates happened to be visiting Apple headquarters for a meeting on the day the IBM PC was announced. "They didn't seem to care", he said. "It took them a year to realize what had happened".What took a year to be realized, that Gates had already? Corporate technology managers wanted a PC from an established company like IBM, not a (perceived by them) newcomer like Apple.The assessment that the IBM PC had a CLI was really irrelevant.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 04:07:47 pm
content: Geeks have always had outlets. Dog breeding. Hawking. Brewing. Cheese making. Anything that requires great attention to detail and focus on controllable things rather than people. And there have always been a range of people from the full on geek through semi-geeks to the full social animals. Most of us aren't on either extreme.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 04:54:10 pm
content: They were kit builders.HeathkitEico, etc.Hi-fi kits.Test equipment kits.Kits, Kits, everywhere were kits in the Electronics mags.And before digital computers in the early 60's I knew an engineer that built himself an analog computer.

author: JacobPilsen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 06:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 11, 2018, 08:38:53 pmThat was 4 years after the Apple II.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 06:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on August 09, 2018, 11:13:08 amInventing the wheel, of course

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 08:45:23 pm
content: Quote from: JacobPilsen on August 12, 2018, 06:40:56 pmYes, and the Apple II was an even more primitive machine that also used a CLI. It was arguably more elegant than the IBM PC in many ways, but it was significantly less powerful.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 09:47:51 pm
content: Winners in the early PC wars were only peripherally driven by technical characteristics. Marketing and market forces dominated. Once IBM came out with their machine it legitimized the desktop computer for businesses. Other big players aided that legitimacy, such as DEC with their Rainbow near clone. When Apple went full on into the corporate world with the Apple III, Lisa and finally Macintosh they were only marginally big enough and stable enough to get a toe in that door. Meanwhile, either through luck or good planning, IBM had left their device open and clones came in. Rapidly that side of the market got enough scale to deliver lower cost at similar and sometimes better performance levels. That carried on until Apple finally threw in the towel on the 68000. Design and development costs were just too high for Motorola, IBM and anyone else pushing the 68000 chips. Intel, and to a lesser extent AMD had a market large enough to continue paying those costs building performance and/or dropping cost. And while arguments have persisted to this day about the relative merits of the chip families, the truth is that both would do the jobs that the vast majority of desktop users needed, so cost won out.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 09:55:46 pm
content: The DEC Rainbow was far from an IBM clone. It was a weird dual processor design with two different processors.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 11:04:32 pm
content: The Apple III is a strange machine, full of questionable design decisions, it has a feeling of being designed by committee. I have one and it's one of the least useful computers in my selection of vintage machines. For running Apple II software it is less capable than a real Apple II and very little software was ever written to take advantage of the new features. Steve Jobs' insistence on not having a fan results in an oversized, heavy, clunky design that runs way too hot, when they could have easily used a whisper quiet fan that would have resulted in a sleeker design with higher reliability.

author: Eka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 01:27:39 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on August 11, 2018, 01:14:50 amMixed ammonium nitrate and fuel oil. Then set off a nice strong concussion wave next to it... Managed to launch my heaviest model rocket to date, but it only went up 20 feet or so. It had the rough mass of an tree with a 2.5' diameter trunk. For some reason a number of cops came and inspected the remains of my model rocket and it's launch site. There is now a McMansion on the launch site, but at the time the kids were able to fill in the hole and play soccer in the field.My other hobbies included, but were not limited to, sewing, designing clothing, photography, astronomy astro photography, learning, painting, programming, digital electronics, computer logic design, trading stocks, reading, bugging professors trying to find out what to learn to do stuff, and listening to adults who were talking about stuff like banking and finance, what they were doing at the local research reactor, and stock trading methods. Basically anything a very precocious kid could do to pass the time and not think about how bad he was being treated by nearly everybody from town.Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on August 12, 2018, 06:44:53 pmNah, knapped stone tools, slings, spears, blow tubes & darts, bows and arrows, etc.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2018, 01:40:03 am
content: Quote from: glarsson on August 12, 2018, 09:55:46 pmNot a clone as in alternate and interchangeable, but in the sense that it was a similar form factor box, with similar targeted functions and aimed at the same market. Endorsed by what was probably the number two computer company at the time.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 01:05:39 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on August 11, 2018, 07:16:19 pmIs that where all these stock price analysis tools came out like Bowlinger bands and MA's and the hundred other tools you can get for a 20.00 a month trading account? The firm that adopted those first must have had a huge advantage. Or at least lots of really technical harts to make it look complicated.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 05:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: Eka on August 13, 2018, 01:27:39 amI remember when you could still buy that stuff and nobody went hysterical at the idea of blowing something up in the back yard. Terrorist jerks ruined the fun for everyone, ie they accomplished exactly what they wanted.I remember my uncle telling me about the chemistry set he had as a teenager, back then they came with real chemicals and you could do real experiments, he managed to make a few different explosive compounds out in the shed. Went on to be a productive adult designing portions of nuclear power plants.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 06:56:56 pm
content: Indeed. All the fun chemicals are gone now. I spent 2 hours driving around this morning trying to find some drain cleaner with hydrochloric acid in it. But alas the people chucking in people's faces ruined that

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 03:26:03 am
content: I don't know about the UK, but a couple years ago I bought HCl at a concrete supply business.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 05:38:19 am
content: Quote from: james_s on August 19, 2018, 03:26:03 amIt's all over the place, used for cleaning, etching, etc. You just have to learn to recognize the alternate names it's known as: Muriatic acid, Hydrogen chloride, Chlorhydric Acid, Spirits of salt, etc. Plus their equivalents in other languages.In the USA, it's usually sold as Muriatic Acid for concentrations up to 32% Hydrochorlic Acid. Instructions for dilution by 3 or 4 for most tasks.I hear Spirits of Salts is a name used in the UK, maybe elsewhere. Can't verify that personally.