Looking for MPU with ECC RAM controller and PCIe  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 06:14:38 pm
content: Hi folksI am looking for a processor with external ECC RAM support - and no parametric search have this filterI found only NXP family LS1024A with nice features and reasonable price It have DDR3 controller with ECC support and also reasonable wide 0.8mm wide BGA package to use cheap boardDo you know anything simillar in this price range 30-40$ ?

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 06:42:47 pm
content: Why ECC? Do you need functional safety? Extended Temperature? Automotive AEC-Q100?What are your requirements? What do you want to build?fchk

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 07:52:05 pm
content: Possibly this:https://www.ti.com/product/AM5746

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 12:46:58 am
content: Quote from: Miyuki on April 18, 2020, 06:14:38 pmYou can also buy memory with internal ECC which is transparent to the processor.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:42:03 am
content: nctnico:Are they readily available ? See some in advertisement but no at storesWith ECC controller I can just add one cheap extra chip and also can have system aware of this and show something is going on with ramThat TI job is little too beast for mefchk:I need function safety 24/7/365 running without data corruptionIt is for data storage, and I cannot find any reasonable off the shelf solution

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 12:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on April 19, 2020, 09:42:03 amFor example (lpddr4):https://www.intelligentmemory.com/fileadmin/pdf-datasheets/IME2G_4G_8G16_32L4HAB.pdfMemphis (http://memphis.ag) is a distributor for these chips in the EU. I have not used these memories myself. Just shoot them an e-mail; they are very responsive.For an MCU you could look at the iMX6 or iMX7series from NXP.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 01:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: Miyuki on April 19, 2020, 09:42:03 am"The objective of functional safety is freedom from unacceptable risk of physical injury or of damage to the health of people either directly or indirectly (through damage to property or to the environment) by the proper implementation of one or more automatic protection functions (often called safety functions)." (from wikipedia)Do you really mean functional safety with ASIL levels etc?Or do you just want a flawlessly working NAS storage system? If so, then just use quality PC server parts from Supermicro, HPE, etc. and FreeNAS. It's cheaper to buy proven solutions with many man-years of testing than to build something new that will certainly also need man-years of development and testing. If you cant use such solutions, then please explain why and what your special problem is.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 03:58:17 pm
content: PC server parts from Supermicro, HPE, etc. ...- Price, Power consumption, Size, Closed firmware (this can be tolerated)Every x86/x64 platform have huge power consumption compared to my target of ones WattsPrice, if there will be of the shelf small board with no 1000% overprice Ill take itI dont want just NASI want small universal low power server, with industry level reliabilityP.S. Designing board for this small SOCs is not man-years, they are designed for simple layout on cheap boards, it is few daysAgree proper testing will take some time, but of the shelf solutions can also have its flaws

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 05:13:57 pm
content: The Raspberry PI 4, at around $35 for the 1 Gb ram model ($55+ for the 4 Gb), can be used as a NAS (and more) server. The NAS/server software (various options) can be freely downloaded.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 06:29:08 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 05:51:38 pmMore directed at OP, rather than you.You need to get your priorities right. There are many things, much more important than ECC.Backups (reliable and decent).Raid (or other ways of having multiple copies of the data, in the machine).Decent, high quality/reliable storage medium (disks/SSDs).UPS (as needed).Reliable/decent/quality motherboards and cpus.Reliable/tested software, which unfortunately can need paying for quality and vendor help/support.By the time you have got and paid for all the above, you would probably already have ECC built in as standard, to the server. But it may well cost a small fortune. Also, it probably will use considerably more than the 1 watt max power consumption, the OP seems to be talking about.tl;drIt is very easy to come up with, what you can think are quite reasonable specifications.E.g. A $10,000 car. I'm only paying $1,000 for a new one.Fuel consumption 50 MPG, sorry, I insist on at least 2,000 miles per gallon.ECC memory, all car systems must have that built in, with $0 extra budget to pay for it.Car manufacturer wants 7 years to develop new car, I insist on it only taking a few days.tl;dr2Currently, ECC usually costs significant amounts of money, to have quality server hardware, which properly includes it.Sadly, such is life.tl;dr3ECC is NOT magical.Software quality/reliability, backups, UPS, cpu quality, SSD data integrity, etc etc. Are also (if not more), important, as well.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 07:34:19 am
content: IIRC Altera/Intel's SoCFPGAs have the option to trade memory capacity for ECC. I'd assume Xilinx also have some ECC options.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:54:38 am
content: I must agree with blueskullHe understand what I wantIndustry grade SOC with all certification and safety features are more expensive than consumer level SOC like in RPi4say from 5-10$ to 30-40$ at similar processing power, extra ram chip cost littleI agree RPi4 with their Broadcom SOC can work decently but I want some higher level deviceSoftware if I want to run it as Linux server is reasonably tested and supported nowI also agree ECC is not self salvation, but I want to go from consumer grade to industry gradeAs I look at some manufacturers NXP, Ti, Renesas - they have some or start to manufacture them in near future, It is all new devices what have basically no previous generation, or was using some proprietary architecturePriorities are simple:I want small single digit power consumption SOC designed to run 24/7 - they mostly have ECC optionHave PCIe port, GbE and SATA port are welcomed - again most SOC have itClassic x86-64 platform is too bulky for meI can live with 2 or 4 GB of RAM (Can use part of single SO-DIMM in 32+4bit mode and route memory lanes to slot is simpler than to 3/5 chips)

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 11:37:05 am
content: Quote from: Miyuki on April 20, 2020, 09:54:38 amThis is your first posting where you have successfully listed all your requirements. This should have been your first post. You wasted our time by not making your point.An important question: quantity? How many parts do yo plan to build & sell? 1? 100? 10k?As a first recommendation: Have a look at the TI Sitara line. The classic coloured Beaglebones (blue, green black) uses the 3358, which is a bit old. Beaglebone AI and Beaglebone X15 use the newer 57xx series with SATA, PCIe etc etc. You can use the Beaglebone boards as a starting point. The biggest advantage: mainline kernel support. Everything is well tested, and there are many users in the industrial environment that use these chips because of their peripherals and realtime capability and longterm availability.