Where did all VFDs go? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 10:15:53 pm
content: I wanted something a bit more nice than usual 4$ green or blue LCD so I was looking for a nice VFD, but it seems they became a rare piece of kit.There's something strange, I can buy Chinese car radio with VFD for 10 bucks at my local shopping mall, but when I visit Farnell/Mouser/TME I get a heart attack looking at prices - 40$ for cheapest 2x16 display.Any ideas where to find (I'd prefer European vendor) el cheapo VFDs in small quantities? Preferably ones that have at least semi-documented interface protocol (or I'll really could start salvaging Wang Hung Lou radios). I must be feeding the mighty google with wrong phrases.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 10:18:46 pm
content: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lcd-display-module-8-bit-fluorescent-vfd-display-ic-develope-new-diy-c3-/381611878961?hash=item58d9d72a31:g:mnYAAOSwgn5XEsREhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/noritake-itron-vfd-display-GU128x64-800A-/172207759343?hash=item281861dfef:g:Ke8AAOSwr0ZXOK8ohttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/electronic-display-NORITAKE-ITRON-VFD-MODULE-1-X-16-lines-/182130024796?hash=item2a67cba15c:g:g80AAOSw1vlUtqHnand so on. Farnell is a bad place to look for things like this always check ebay.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 10:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: karoru on June 05, 2016, 10:15:53 pmHiIf you look at your car radio display, it's probably not a standard part. It's got special symbols on it for the radio functions. That's true of most (like 99%) of the VFD displays you see. They don't fit into a normal distribution model (Digikey / Farnel / Mouser).Bob

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 10:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 05, 2016, 10:32:18 pm

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 12:44:32 am
content: That sounds like a neat display for bench meter or PSU, that steaming thing in middle to signal overload ;p

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 12:29:05 pm
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on June 05, 2016, 10:38:42 pmHiThe next layer to the problem: I design in the display that I *finally* found. It works, it's great, the first couple are going fine. I go back a while later to build a few more gizmos and *surprise* the display is no longer available. That's not specific to VFD's. It applies to a lot of displays. The more custom, the more likely they are to go away ...Bob

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 12:50:04 pm
content: Common problem. Trust me, it happens to companies much, much bigger than the likes of you and me. If your chosen display isn't used in some high volume consumer product, it'll be expensive, and if it is, it'll be discontinued as soon as that other product reaches EoL.Personally I wouldn't touch VFD; I'd go for an OLED display if being different and eye-catching is important. The latest ones have much, much longer lifetimes than early units which seem to have given the technology a bad reputation in that respect... and it's not as though VFD lasts forever either.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 01:06:31 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 06, 2016, 12:50:04 pmHiGiven the number of HP instruments I have around here with weak VFD's I'd say they have a *very* finite life. The LED and LCD displays that came before them seem to be doing better life wise.Bob

author: bktemp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 01:25:48 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on June 06, 2016, 12:50:04 pmIt depends on the quality and the brightness setting. I have seen really bad OLEDs lasting less than 100 hours at the recommended brightness setting until the active area was clearly distinguishable from unused pixels and I have seen good ones lasting >20000 hours doing the same test. From my experience I would recommend LCDs or VFDs because they are proven technology.OLED displays have really improved in the last 10 years, but they are still not ready for industrial or automotive applications, especially at elevated temperatures.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 01:39:48 pm
content: The VFD's are already very expensive for the last 5 years.Too little producers, too little demand.Other displays that are also becoming obsolete/extremely expensive are the integrated 4 or 8 position alfanumeric LED modules like the HDSP25xx series, a shame actually, I have bought ten of them around 1998 for 5.- a piece, made by HP and Osram, now they are 30.- to 50.- a piece from Broadcom.http://nl.farnell.com/avago-technologies/hdsp-2502/led-display-alphanumeric/dp/1175570

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 05:15:45 pm
content: I used to service and repair elevators and about half the models we worked on used VFD modules to indicate the floor numbers. Their working life was about two years (remember that they would have been working 24/7) and in the end we just gave up and had an LED module manufactured as a direct plug in replacement.Fast forward to 2016 and I'm now building all my own test and ham radio equipment. None of them have VFDs in them because I don't want to find them unobtainable if one of them dies, I bought a tube of HP/Avago High Efficiency LEDs and these are used in all of my projects to give a uniform look and feel.My advice, walk away, the VFD working life is too short.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 05:22:44 pm
content: Well, I'm wondering about trying to give OLED a go, my main reason for trying to find a cheap VFDs is that I hate with passion these 2x16 LCD displays with pathetic view angles (and I don't consider variations like light blue on dark blue to be sensible text display colors) that tend to be way to go nowadays with any hobby project. I hope that at least 7-segment LED displays (which are still surpisingly cheap) won't go away soon, but I have ample supply of 3-digit ones and handful of CD4511's, so at least for one-offs it will last me forever;)From datasheet adventures I can see that besides car radios & kitchen ovens main application of VFDs nowadays are Pachinko machines (most of character displays have Japanese font with some another funny symbols included) and that would explain the price a bit for these vanilla ones.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 05:44:18 pm
content: https://world.taobao.com/item/9067846370.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.V6SJkN#detailAnd works i already bought

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 07:47:27 pm
content: I gave up on VFDs years ago, I like the colours of the phosphors, viewing angle is good, available in numeric, alpha numeric, dot matrix, bar graph and custom formats, they're still used on point of sale terminals and on cash registers. They're relatively easy to manufacture, print the electrodes then the phosphor, align grids and heater supports then frit seal maybe and vacuum pump. Something like that. It's all glass, metal, phosphor, cathodes and vacuum. Custon CRT in other words, same technology except scanning mechanism is different, it's fixed.The down side is the short life of the phosphor and also cathode emission. You have to run the cathodes relatively cool compared to a standard vaccuum tube so maybe cathode coatings "boiling off" or something like that, you would have to ask the people that design this sort of stuff. Field emission electrodes were researched but never happened. Also, there is a diminishing amout of plant to manufacture glass vacuum tube technology.Seems like Toshiba still putting VFDs into their tills but other manufactures use LCD now.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 08:54:46 pm
content: I've wondered why they still make VFDs these days, given they're much cheaper alternatives which are easier to drive.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 09:31:53 pm
content: For legibility and long life, definitely go with segment- or dot-based LED displays. Although it's good to hear that OLED longevity is improving, I wouldn't use them unless you need the full array (e.g., for showing arbitrary graphics).Surprisingly, the VFDs in my kitchen microwave and conventional ovens are over 18 years old (that's 150,000+ hours) and still look great despite being on 24x7 displaying the current time. You can tell which segments get the most on-time, but the difference in brightness is no where near as bad as many of the displays I've seen on test equipment.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 10:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 06, 2016, 08:54:46 pmthey still have use at extreme temperatures. you can generally read a non-crap vfd at -50C through to 90C and it will have a decent lifetime.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 11:09:44 pm
content: http://noritake-vfd.com/currentpromotion.aspxThey also have a discount tab with some decent prices. VFD's are generally not cheap unless you get them on closeout.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 03:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on June 06, 2016, 10:57:08 pmYes, that's true and VFDs will be able to withstand ionising radiation better than LCD or LED. However these are niche, applications. Most displays don't need to withstand such a harsh environment.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 04:43:32 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 06, 2016, 08:54:46 pmVFDs are very expensive comparable to LCD and other diode-based displays but I still like VFD - they have that sexy bright look that lasts for many years and works well even in bright sunlight. Just Love them.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 04:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: Alexei.Polkhanov on June 07, 2016, 04:43:32 pmObviously its their high price that still gets VFDs into some very cheap products where an LCD would be perfectly suitable.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 05:33:39 pm
content: VFD now days are a very cheap you can easily find 8 alpha characters for less than a dollar.And with pt6312 IC is very easy and cheap to driveIn reality is nice and cheaper than LCD, the disadvantage is that is heavy adding some weight to your device

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 05:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: Alexei.Polkhanov on June 07, 2016, 04:43:32 pmYup, I actually like idea of display that actually lights the thing that has to be bright, not filter the light that's unwanted;)

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 11:02:49 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 07, 2016, 05:33:39 pmHiEight digit LED's seem to sell for under 5 cents each ....Bob

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 11:18:38 pm
content: Quote from: karoru on June 05, 2016, 10:15:53 pmI bought some of thesehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/221946221520and they are nice. They just fit (width) into a half rack width case. Only issue is the need for a >=16 VAC (>= 20 VDC) supply in addition to 5 V. This can be solved with a $1 ebay boost converter. They have a ribbon cable attached but the unpopulated 18 pin header is equivalent. They are compatible with HD44780 protocol.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 12:45:06 am
content: 2x40? That's a good deal. I have several 2x20 that cost about that much.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 09:23:29 am
content: Quote from: macboy on June 07, 2016, 11:18:38 pmVery nice, but in my case the shippingcosts is 6 times the itemcosts and they add this to every item, rediculous.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2016, 04:41:17 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 08, 2016, 09:23:29 amYes, their international shipping cost is insane. I had the same issue in Canada. I was driving to the USA to pick up another package anyway, so I had it shipped to that USA address at very low cost. You might contact the seller and ask them to do an off-ebay deal with reasonable shipping cost, or at least ask them to fix the multiple item shipping cost.