Solar Financial Perpetual Motoion Machine Down Under - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2011, 01:31:45 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--From the Sidney Herald 18AUG11, see below link:http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/solar-energy-cost-hits-par-with-coal-fuel-20110817-1iybc.html?from=smh_sb--I will leave it to our brothers and sisters from The Land Down Under, who are probably more knowledgeable, to amplify and correct my comments.--It looks to me like the Herald is claiming that PV costs are now on a par, in some areas with the grid. But as near as I can tell, this is only true if you do not count subsidies from the the taxpayer. And, future areas will become competitive once the Global Warming Fairy starts scattering her nebulous carbon credit pixie dust.--Comments are humbly solicited,--Is it true that when a dog is making his bed in Australia, he circles the other way round from a dog in the US?"Three weeks in the lab will save you a day in the library every time" Stanley Williams, HP LabsBest RegardsClear Ether

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 03:09:36 am
content: The situation is a little complicated here. Energy costs are increasing, and subsidies for PV installations and feed-in tariffs are being reduced. However fossil fuel production and use is also subsidised, and these industries may receive additional compensation with the introduction of a price on carbon emissions.Without really studying the numbers, pretty much the only thing you can take from all this is that the costs for solar power are coming down to the point where many households are deciding that a PV system is economical for them. It's heartening to see so many panels on roofs.

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 07:15:26 am
content: In Italy, who had got the money to buy solar plants (especially for the large ones) had a huge return on their investment (granted for 20 years), at least if they started in the past few years.Of course, it's easier to reach grid parity, when you take the money for subsidies as an additional cost for the people who can't install PV panels, because they don't have the money!It was not only on roofs, but they also covered fields, which is at least silly, in a country which is considered to have a large value in its rural landscape and high-quality agriculture.Nice to see that other countries have similar problems...

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 11:39:51 am
content: Dear Joelby:--You stated:" ...fossil fuel production and use is also subsidized, and these industries may receive additional compensation with the introduction of a price on carbon emissions."--I think if you add up the various debits and credits, you will find that, Fuel companies pay a very large net tax, and that PV and Wind companies receive a very large net subsidy. And, that Fuel companies soon will be paying a huge net increase in "carbon emission" taxes. These increased costs will ultimately be payed by the power consumer.--You also stated:"Without really studying the numbers, pretty much the only thing you can take from all this is that the costs for solar power are coming down to the point where many households are deciding that a PV system is economical for them. It's heartening to see so many panels on roofs."--Where do I begin? It seems to me that your argument is greatly strengthened by not "studying the numbers" So, I take it that you are in support of Australian citizens paying huge increases in taxes and rates, so the wealthy and privileged can install subsidized solar panels made in China.To Scrat:--Your comments about Photovoltaic policies in Italy are right on point. The same thing is happening in Spain and Australia. The only reason the Spanish and Australian governments are reducing previously guaranteed high rates for PV power, is financial reality. In their hearts they would like to continue these disastrous policies. But they just cannot bilk their citizens anymore right now for fear of losing elections. Please do not take my comments as being nationalistic. My government (US) is just as greedy and stupid (and often greedier and stupider) as any of the others.--In fact, I would argue that government subsidies are holding back the development of photovoltaic technologies. Why develop cheaper more efficient products, when you can pretty much sell any old junk to credulous governments with their bags of taxpayer money.--A similar situtation obtains in Great Britain with Wind power. It is costing a lot more than promised and performing about a tenth as well. All of this being paid for by the British taxpayer, already broke from paying for welfare for gangsters, criminals, and immigrants who hate their adopted county."Three weeks in the lab will save you a day in the library every time" Stanley Williams, HP LabsBest RegardsClear Ether

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:03:40 pm
content: I know, people acts almost the same all over the world.When I say they're taking from the common consumers to give to the photovoltaic investors, it's literally like that: here we all pay an additional tax (explicitly specified on the bill) on electric energy, just to gather money for the renewable energy. Then, the picture is completed by the fact that waste oil and some other mixed-fuel (e.g. oil+rubbish) production is considered by the law as renewable energy (they introduced a subtle sentence in the law text, for the purpose), so it can get subsidies too.During a consulting service for a company we tested a 5kW chinese inverter, which also has the German VDE certification. Its current waveform was much far from a sine, and it disconnected and stayed in that condition for about 15 minutes when the panel voltage got low (but well inside the spec range). This can be sold for some k€ here around just because the demand is so high that the decent companies cannot satisfy it.IMO, quantity is the problem, as usual. Politicians always take decisions towards too much or too little.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:52:32 pm
content: Quote from: SgtRock on September 13, 2011, 11:39:51 amCan you please use the 'quote' tags. Your posts are very hard to read because you mix quoted material with your own comments.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 02:49:42 pm
content: Dear Ejeffery:--A much as I appreciate your help in previous matters, in this case I must regretfully say no. Often I wish to eliminate verbiage in the middle of a quote and or insert editorial comments like "" into a quote. I do not think clarity would be helped by breaking the quote it into multiple parts in order to use quote tags. If there is a way of doing all of these things, using quote tags I will certainly consider using them. Otherwise I would have to use both forms, which would be even more confusing.--Given that I am using a conventional form and plenty of carriage returns to isolate the quoted material, and the use of "quotation marks", it should be no more difficult to comprehend than a book or newspaper."Three weeks in the lab will save you a day in the library every time" Stanley Williams, HP LabsBest RegardsClear Ether

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 12:04:53 am
content: Apparently UV is unable to ignore anything the machine does not ignore for him.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 03:25:56 am
content: Quote from: SgtRock on September 14, 2011, 12:04:53 amThe game called "the mouse and the cat" but he had no awareness of who is the cat.. LOLHe deleted the trace, now he is clean .. until the next time.