Help selecting a decent all rounder laptop around the £1k mark pls? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 05:54:21 pm
content: I will be looking to upgrade to a new laptop over the next few weeks. I'm not a online gamer or anything like that that would need a high power machine. I just need a general surf the web, check emails and watch YouTube videos type of machine for around £1000 quids.Any help will be very much appreciated. Thanks

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 06:21:03 pm
content: If you're just doing web tasks, I'd throw half that into a nice Chromebook, or an Android tablet (I use the Yoga Tab 3 Plus, they also sell a more expensive one with a core atom, and built in projector). There are also Surface tablets, but I'm not a fan myself.If you are in need of something more powerful for additional tasks, I'd suggest you list more requirements, otherwise any Android tablet or Chromebook would be your best bet really, just pick what is built the nicest, and has the best keyboard.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 10:04:12 pm
content: Used Dell XPS from Dell Outlet UK?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 02:23:41 am
content: Quote from: Terry01 on August 19, 2018, 05:54:21 pmI never buy new! Get a relatively recent Dell laptop. On the good ones, there can be 3 different screen pixel resolutions, so you have to look up the details to know which exact model # has the best screen. Then, buy one where the hard drive has been removed. Buy a decent solid state disk and install the OS yourself. (I use Linux exclusively, but you can get legit copies of your favorite OS fairly cheaply.)On eBay, never buy a Dell unless they photograph the manufacturer's ID tag that gives the exact model ID code, so you can look that up on Dell's site to get the exact features built into that model. I'd guess the same provisions should be followed for other makes. I try to only buy the Dell "commercial grade" models, not the "consumer grade". Somehow, they put better parts in the commercial ones.I generally can get a VERY good laptop for no more than US $150 or so, delivered.Jon

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 07:01:59 am
content: I'd strongly advise to get a Dell from the 'for business' section. Sure the secs are lower then other laptops but the built quality and reliability are much better. I'm typing this on a Dell laptop I bought at least 6 years ago. Meanwhile it got upgraded with an SSD and 16GB of memory. The battery still works as well (but I'm using the laptop mostly from mains power and when working from a battery I never let it run low).Edit: my own laptop is just a single data point but the reason I buy only 'for business' Dell computers is because I used to sell desktops and laptops (a very long long time ago) to businesses and the Dells just kept working and had no problems with drivers. Very much unlike the cheaper laptops which in the end just got me unsatisfied customers because of stability and driver issues (not to mention the amount of time I had to waste on service).

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 07:04:37 am
content: One tip: steer clear from the dual-core i7's. Those days are over, even if you get a huge clearance discount.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 07:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 20, 2018, 07:01:59 amMy previous main desktop was a Dell Optiplex (commercial product line) that was bought on eBay several years old. I ran it for 12 years 24/7, and then decided to replace it before problems developed. My mother in law is STILL using it, it must be 20 years old, now!I still use an older Dell laptop when traveling, and got my daughter a newer one with a big screen. They have been just fine.Jon

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 04:24:49 pm
content: I'm gonna throw in a Schenker Notebook.I think they are quite decent value for the price.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 05:25:44 pm
content: As far as I remember, Schencker is a boutique store, so their stuff is as good as the ODM they chose for any given machine...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 05:32:14 pm
content: This is the sort of question that is likely to get you a lot of passionate responses urging you to get brand X because brand Y is crap and vice versa so I'll preface my response with the fact that this is just my opinion and there are many machines which will meet your needs.Anyway I personally am a fan of Lenovo, you might check their refurbished offerings as many times you can get as-new laptops with a warranty at a significant discount over buying brand new. I would also advise looking at corporate rather than consumer models no matter what brand you get. The corporate machines really are much better made, quality and durability over bells & whistles.Oh and no matter what you get, install a SSD as the boot drive, that makes an enormous difference. At least in the case of Lenovo they tend to charge a lot for hard drive upgrades so when I bought mine I got it with the cheapest smallest drive they offered then immediately replaced that with a SSD and put the original drive in an external box as a backup media.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 06:17:53 pm
content: There’s a ton of Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon units on eBay. I’d get one of them.You’re not going to get a better laptop for £1k than a £400 or so second hand X1. It will cover all your use cases perfectly as well.Example:https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323095101188Edit: I might actually snag myself one for that money to replace my T440.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 08:14:33 am
content: Thanks for the replies. That's given me somewhere to start from and do a bit research. I'll post back when I settle on something.I really don't know that much when it comes to laptops and the fact there are a million of them to choose from just makes it sore head stuff when you start looking.I have an HP machine just now which is ok I suppose but it seems to stall a little sometimes. I'm not a heavy user with lots of windows open at once or a few tasks going at the same time so just feel it should whizz through what I do no problem at all, not get a little sluggish sometimes as it does.Anyways, thanks again everyone who replied.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 07:19:01 pm
content: Quote from: Terry01 on August 23, 2018, 08:14:33 amGiven the above, instead of buying a new laptop, tell us the HP model above and how much DRAM it has inside.You could be running out of DRAM? If not, replacing your likely 5400rpm drive with an SSD will cost significantly less than a new laptop given your simple email, youtube and web surfing requirements.If you are running Windows, it might be time for completely fresh install to get rid of all the junk that has accumulated over the years? Or start uninstalling all the bloatware that comes with your typical Windows install from a manufacturer.If you are running Windows, a virus/malware scan would help too. Malwarebytes makes a good free one to use.https://www.malwarebytes.com/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 07:50:14 pm
content: When it comes to Windows: disable the swap (virtual memory). Windows tries to push as much as it can onto the hard drive to keep as much memory as possible unused. This makes a PC incredibly slow ofcourse. A typical symptom is a slow down when switching from one application to the other.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:28:51 pm
content: That comes with its own problems. I had the swap disable for a while on my laptop but even with 8GB of RAM I was constantly running out of memory. Several browser tabs and one or two instances of Quartus running, then if I fire up something like Inkscape or Gimp pretty soon the memory is full and I'm getting errors.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:37:41 pm
content: There’s no need to disable swap these days, at least since windows vista and 64 bit platforms. This is bad advice. Let windows manage it. Barely touches it even with memory heavy workloads.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 10:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: Terry01 on August 23, 2018, 08:14:33 amHow much memory you have installed is a really important question. For almost any laptop, the rule of thumb is to increase the memory to the maximum supported. These days that should be 16 GB, and not less than 8 GB. A certain way to a sluggish laptop is to have only 2 GB or 4 GB installed.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:37:27 am
content: It's a pretty standard £450 HP laptop 15-bw**** is the model number, it has 4Gb memory and I have windows 10 installed. It's only a few months old, 6 or 8 I think. I may try the SSD option, that could be a winner for me.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:57:00 am
content: SSD is easy win. Biggest performance jump ever.If you do that, get a Samsung one. 250Gb EVO for £59.99 at the moment:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B078WQJXNF/... been using a 120Gb of these in my 9 year old desktop PC (!) for about a year now and is pretty snappy.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 12:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 24, 2018, 09:57:00 amAwesome! I'll give it a go. At that price it's got to be a winner too right! 60 quid aint bad!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 01:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: Terry01 on August 24, 2018, 09:37:27 am4 GB is probably not enough these days. You should think about upgrading to 8 GB. I would do that before doing the SSD. The disk has never been a cause of poor performance in any computer I have owned.You need to understand that an SSD may make a machine go faster, but lack of an SSD is never a cause of a machine being too slow to use.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 03:22:55 pm
content: Wasn't that long ago that 1GB of RAM seemed extravagant, nevermind the dark ages when I was totally stoked to have 4MB. How things change.That said, things seem to have stalled somewhat, machines that take a max of 16GB have been around for years and still seem to be fairly common.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 03:33:16 pm
content: My main desktop has 4Gb of RAM and is fine. Depends what you do with it. I run kicad, LTspice, Office, Python, all sorts.SSD is the biggest performance boost for the money

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 05:02:36 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 24, 2018, 01:26:36 pmIt's for sure no where near too slow to use. Just sometimes when I watch YouTube videos it can be a wee bit sluggish. It's still very usable and flicking through web pages like this forum or things like that it is instant.Now I come to think about it the Mrs gets free Microsoft Office through her work but it takes like 1 Gb to have it on the machine and I think after I installed that it started getting "sluggish" sometimes. I use Office to make spreadsheets and stuff like that. Like I say it's still a very usable machine and I wouldn't say it's slow by any stretch, just sometimes it stalls a bit for a few seconds.I'm not looking for a better one because this one has become un-usable, i just want a better machine. An upgrade!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 23, 2018, 07:50:14 pmThat is absolutely, completely, 100% false.Since Windows Vista, Windows does all it can topreventunused RAM, since empty RAM is using power and going to waste. So Windows will actually preload things from disk to RAM that it expects will be used soon (based on statistical analysis of your usage patterns). They call thisSuperFetch, and the memory in question "Standby memory". So if you then open something and SuperFetch has put it into the Standby already, it's simply changed from being in Standby to In Use. If it wasn't preloaded into Standby, no harm done. Some of the Standby memory is emptied and used for your application. (It will also keep recently-closed things in Standby, too.)This is what you see in Resource Monitor, on the Memory tab, under Physical Memory, as the "Standby" memory usage.You can observe the Standby preloading in action, by opening Resource Monitorimmediatelyafter restarting Windows, and watching the Physical Memory stats while doing absolutely nothing else. It'll begin with a huge Free segment, and any programs that autostart will load and you'll see the In Use segment grow. Then, once the system is idle, you'll see the Standby segment grow and grow as it preloads things until it's consumed nearly all of the Free memory (usually leaving under 100MB!).But because Standby memoryis fully available for programs to use with no speed penalty, you can consider your available RAM to be the sum of both Standby and Free (which is exactly what the "Available" statistic in Resource Monitor does). It's only once BOTH Standby and Free have run out, and serious swapping begins, that performance suffers.(Windows XP and earlier did some prefetching, but it was nothing like SuperFetch in Vista and later.)

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:21:20 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 24, 2018, 01:26:36 pmNo need to buy a new laptop since your current one is only 8 months old. I second the upgrade to 8GB DRAM before getting the SSD.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:30:24 pm
content: Actually, I think the SSD would be wiser. Swapping to HDD isnightmarishlyslow. Swapping to SSD, not nearly as bad! (Remember that much of the slowness of swapping is because of seek times, not throughput. SSDs' throughput is several times that of an HDD, but the seek times are literally a hundred times better on an SSD!!!)Of course, I absolutely agree that an upgrade to or beyond 8GB RAM shouldalsobe done, especially since it's cheap.But if you can only do one, the SSD will improve performance substantially inallsituations, while adding RAM will onlyprevent slowdownsin RAM starved situations.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:35:19 pm
content: A different perspective is that swapping happens when you don't have enough physical memory. Ideally you don't want a machine to swap. If you can prevent swapping by adding more memory, that is a more direct solution than speeding up the swapping process.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 09:52:31 pm
content: SSDs and RAM are both fairly cheap, so there is no point in not upgrading both. Only if money was tight and you had less than 4 GB would RAM be best to upgrade first. An SSD alone will make the most noticeable improvement overall and small ones are dirt cheap these days. The only computer in this house that still has spinning disks is a FreeNAS machine, because 16 TB of storage is just too expensive for me using SSDs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 10:21:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 24, 2018, 09:35:19 pmAs I wrote before: Windows always swaps even if there is more than enough RAM. With 4GB (or more) any significant amount of memory into the swap space will make the PC crawl to a halt so it is completely useless. Nowadays swap space isn't needed but it is typical for Microsoft to leave it enabled. Nowadays when I install Linux I never add a swap partition.I'd also strongly recommend to disable swap when using an SSD because you'll wear the SSD quicker.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 02:52:17 am
content: Quote from: IanB on August 24, 2018, 09:35:19 pmIt's not a "different perspective" that swapping occurs during memory starvation, that's fundamental.My point was this: a TON of the time we spend waiting for a computer to respond to any user interactions is disk transactions. ALL of those are slowed down by a hard disk, all the time, even when memory is NOT starved. Removing those hard disk delays by adding an SSD will provide a bigger overall speed improvement for everyday tasks than just adding another 4GB of RAM, even if swapping isn't eliminated.Look at what the OP said they use the computer for: web browsing. There's no reason to assume that memory starvation is a big problem. But using a hard disk isguaranteedto be holding the system back! And THAT is also why if only one upgrade is possible, I'd do the SSD first.But of course, since neither of those things is expensive, IMHO it'd be dumb to not upgrade both.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 04:59:59 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 24, 2018, 10:21:16 pmAs I said earlier, I had swap disabled for a while and with 8GB of RAM I was constantly running out of memory and getting errors, having to close programs to keep them from crashing, it's not a given that you can just turn it off without consequence. I also have not noticed a great slowdown from enabling it.

author: Terry01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 11:12:24 am
content: Looking at what everyone has posted I think the best option may be to pick up something 2nd hand around the £750 ish mark then add some extra SSD for say a couple hundred more or there about.Just rough figures not set in stone, just see what's available when it's time to pull the trigger and get the best I can in both Hard disk and SSD combined at the time.I think 2 or 3 weeks time i'll be ready.I defo feel better equipped now. I know 1k is no fortune but it would be silly to chuck it away when there is so much knowledge and help available here with a few clicks. I easily know more than double what i did a few days ago now when it comes to what to be looking for.Amazing what you can get from just a single post!All the advice is very much appreciated, thanks everyone who posted!

author: Deridex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 04:24:00 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on August 22, 2018, 05:25:44 pmHaha, you might just want to google the Schenker Laptops. I think they are quite decent.About Lenovo: I had very mixed expierences with em. For now i would probaly not choose lenovo.About a SSD: I think that is definitly a must have.Depending on what you want to do with the Laptop: I think Intels integrated GPUs are quite weak as soon it comes to somewhat challenging workloads . So there a dedicated gpu comes into the game.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 05:14:09 pm
content: Around the start of the year, Intel released some CPUs that use AMD IP for the integrated GPU. That should tell you something about how far behind Intel's own integrated GPUs are...Lenovo is actually really popular because they're commonly available lightly used for very cheap. I recall the T420 is the first one to support a mSATA SSD for those who want to have a HDD and a SSD.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 05:39:26 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 25, 2018, 05:14:09 pmAnd why might there be so many lightly used laptops no longer wanted by their original owners?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 05:41:02 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 25, 2018, 04:59:59 amI OTOH never had such problems and I've been using my machines with the swap disabled for at least a decade. Ofcourse you have to be aware that your system will run out of memory when you open a lot of applications.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 06:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 25, 2018, 05:39:26 pmCorporate upgrades mostly, a lot of companies upgrade hardware on a time cycle, especially for upper management that likes to have new toys and typically don't heavily use them anyway.I fished 5 or 6 older Lenovo laptops out of the e-waste bin at a previous job and have had several of them in service around my house for quite a while now. They're older i5 machines and one i7, not the greatest screens but still perfectly serviceable computers and unless the problem was the hard drives which were removed when they were decommissioned, there's nothing wrong with them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 06:32:14 pm
content: This.I paid I think £300 for my new in box T440 which was 3 years old at the time. Lots of corporates buy a bulk of them and don't even issue them to users. Stuffed an extra 8Gb stick out of a duff machine and a Samsung 840 Pro SSD I had lying around and it goes like stink.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 06:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 25, 2018, 05:41:02 pmWhich is why I'm not saying that disabling the swap will *always* cause problems, but it's something to be aware of and not just blindly do without reason. Whether it works well depends on the amount of memory you have and the sort use you do. I tend to have a lot of programs open at any given time, some of them pretty heavy duty stuff and that sucks down a lot of memory, for someone who just does one thing at a time it may not matter.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 06:44:08 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 25, 2018, 06:30:49 pmWell, sure. But the comment was "lightly used". Where I work it is typical to replace and upgrade laptops on a 3 year cycle, but over those 3 years most laptops get heavily used and suffer all sorts of wear and tear. They may still be serviceable with a good clean and refresh, but I would not call them lightly used.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 06:58:49 pm
content: They are usually graded. Typically the lightly worn ones are ones which were put into service at the late end of the company's lifecycle. Anyone with more than about 50 machines tends to do a full hardware refresh/rollout every 3-5 years. They buy up to 75 machines up front to cover that and new starters. Some of them are never used, some are lightly used, some are destroyed and most are quite worn. Lots of them go straight in WEEE or are stripped for parts to tidy up units that have been dropped and have cosmetic problems.One of the best things I've seen is a friend of mine who does recycling who was paid nearly £5000 to take away nearly 300 HP desktop machines that haven't even been opened because they didn't officially support windows 10 on the spec sheet on the purchase order despite the manufacturer stating that they did on their web site. He made about £50-60k out of that in the end just on ebay.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 08:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: Deridex on August 25, 2018, 04:24:00 pmI didn't have to Google them, I know them from a few years back. And I didn't say they were not decent, I said they were only as good as the ODM making them. In this case: Clevo.https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-Apex-15-Clevo-N950TP6-Laptop-Review.301664.0.html