Oscilloscope Choice: Yokogawa DL1740EL or Iwatsu DS-5624A or Tektronics TBS2204B - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: asterion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 10:57:14 am
content: Hello, I’ve been waiting to buy a decent oscilloscope for a while now and I have found a store with the following used ones in stock. Any info/recommendations on why to choose one over the other would be appreciated.I don’t have a specific feature I am looking for but I do want to optimize bang/buck.Yokogawa DL1740ELIwatsu DS-5624ATektronica TBS2204BThanks in advance!

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 11:55:51 am
content: well you are in some of them "oldies"you have to check for servicing or parts availability, for me i would go to the TEK, and be sure they all pass self tests and have a proof of thati ask the seller to put his avatar name in the self test screen and screenshot picture, if not i move awayyou have some threads for the tds2k 3k series ...Yokogawa ? there is a fewIwatsu ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 12:08:22 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 28, 2024, 11:55:51 amOnly the Yokogawa DL1740EL is an older model (but 500MHz). The others are relatively new. Unless 500MHz is needed, I'd leave the DL1740EL at the shop. The DL1740EL is a nice compact oscilloscope (I have owned one) but the others have nicer displays and an easier user interface. Also the analog fronted gets rather hot and the implemented cooling solution is quite bad. In the one I had, some of the pre-amplifier chips where replaced and one needed replacing again. Based on specs the Iwatsu DS-5624A might be the most versatile one.The Tektronix TBS2204B can't be compared with the TDS2k or TDS3k series. The TBS2204B is aimed at educational / repair shop work. Simple, but effective. A customer one mine has a TBS2000A series and everyone prefers to use that one instead of the Rigol and other cheap scopes that are around the lab.

author: asterion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 12:46:00 pm
content: Ah appreciate the info! So I can get the Iwatsu for ~1300 while the Tek is around ~2500. Is there anything on the Tek that might make it worth that much more?I’ll talk to the shop owner and see if he can run the self test before buy.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 01:03:19 pm
content: No expert, but you may want to check the prices on new comparable scopes from e.g. Siglent or Rigol.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 01:57:33 pm
content: Yep for that price (and less), any new rigol or siglent will outperform all of these old scopes...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 03:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: tunk on May 28, 2024, 01:03:19 pmComparable... not so much. Reputable A-brand scopes versus low cost scopes. Like comparing a set of blue Gedore wrenches with Chinese branded ones you typically find at the supermarket. Use both types and you can tell the difference for sure; you'll want the ones from Gedore. If the models would be comparable, then the A-brands would be able to sell them at the same low price. Ofcourse you can always decide the cheap tools are good enough for you.Still, the asking price of the shop is way too high. The DL1740EL is a good deal for $100 because it is pretty much obsolete. For the DS-5624A and TBS2204B I'd start negotiations at 1/3rd of the asking price and walk away if the shop doesn't want to come down below half the asking price. It is very possible though that the TBS2204B has some manufacturer warranty left. Tektronix offers a 5 year warranty on many of their products.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 04:31:52 pm
content: same toughtThey are high priced for old / or used stuff, huge profit marginI would not even talk to them at this price rangeBetter buy new Siglent and Rigol are hack .... / upgreadable on the banwidth, which gives you better bang for the bucks

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 06:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 28, 2024, 03:46:52 pmSiglent is a reputable A brand now. Better hardware and support than the overpriced paperweights being compared, especially when you get into the $2k and $3k ranges.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 06:40:00 pm
content: I want the stuff you are smokingI'll leave it at that. I've wasted more than enough time & money on cheap tools.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 06:50:47 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 28, 2024, 06:40:00 pmI don't want cheap tools either, but I also refuse to pay for old garbage. If you think an SDS3000X HD is a "cheap" tool, then please buy me two. 😉

author: le_yum
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 07:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 28, 2024, 06:50:47 pmrebrand it Lecroy, double the price, and suddenly it becomes "premium" )

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 08:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: le_yum on May 28, 2024, 07:46:14 pmlol the price sure does!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 08:48:57 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 28, 2024, 04:31:52 pmMe either.For that much money you can get a new Siglent SDS2000 series which will blow them all away.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 09:36:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 28, 2024, 03:46:52 pmTerrible analogy.The Gedore wrench costs ~10x+ that of a no-name wrench. No one is suggesting OP to go and buy a $300 scope.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 09:58:55 pm
content: Just wait a few more hours

author: aeg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2024, 11:52:40 pm
content: I would skip your local store. Even if you want a Tektronix, there is (for example) a working TDS2024B on eBay for less than one third the price your guy is asking. If you need long sample depth, TBS2000 series has a list price starting at $1640, brand new! And that would be known working, with warranty, calibrated.If this is your first scope then you might consider an Owon HDS272S for less than $300, brand new. It's much worse than the Tektronix, but you asked for a "decent" oscilloscope, not a "great" one. You can spend the other $2000 on parts, power supplies, soldering equipment, etc.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 12:22:19 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 28, 2024, 09:58:55 pmYou win. 🤣🤣🤣But forget Owon trash, if they're going to shoot that low in price, they should look at the SDS804X HD for $440.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 01:44:06 am
content: I'm waiting for the Rigol crowd to

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 07:47:38 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 28, 2024, 09:36:58 pmWhy not? (Well, maybe $500+)The OP says, "I don't have a specific feature I'm looking for, but I want to optimize bang/buck."Maybe it would be helpful if the OP told us if he already has a scope and which one.Then we could estimate what he means by "decent" or what the next step could be.Buying a used scope for $2500 for no particular reason is not very smart imo.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 07:53:57 am
content: Quote from: asterion on May 28, 2024, 12:46:00 pmThose are crazy prices, don't touch them!For $1300 (presume USD?) you can get a LOT better brand new Siglent or Rigol or other scope.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 07:55:31 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2024, 07:47:38 amThat's definitely not happening in this case.QuoteI've done a video on exactly this:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 08:01:24 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on May 28, 2024, 06:37:29 pmGood enough for Lecroy to rebadge them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 08:19:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2024, 07:53:57 amDid you read the endlessly long bug threads on your own forum?More features: probably yes if they work as intended. Better: definitely debatable. I used to be a big Siglent supporter as they where going to 'stick it to' the big A brands and make them lower their prices. But in the mean time I've learned the only people Siglent (and Rigol too) are 'sticking it to' are their own customers. In the past decade I have a spend (directly and indirectly) over 3000 euro (ex VAT) on Siglent gear which turned out to be useless for the purpose it was bought for due to bugs / shortcomings. Bottom line: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys so don't expect to pay less and still get the same quality. Ofcourse people can decide for themselves if they want to save money or that a cheaper unit is perfect for their needs. But even for occasional hobby use it can be worthwhile to go for the better polished gear even if it doesn't have all the bells & whistles and/or it is second hand. Except for the Yokogawa, the oscilloscopes the OP is looking at are definitely not old units. The Tektronix one (TBS2000B series) was released only a few years ago.And as I wrote before the prices the shop is asking are way too high, there is likely a lot of wiggle room; a decent price would be a little bit below half the price the shop is asking.Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2024, 08:01:24 amBut not always with great success. AFAIK Lecroy does quite a bit of quality control on the firmware themselves before releasing a product nowadays. They have got bitten badly in the past by rebranding Siglent products. Don't mention 'Waveace' to any of their sales reps... It looks like Lecroy has cancelled 'Waveace' as a product line.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 09:05:35 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 29, 2024, 08:19:16 amYou are a hater, that is what you are.You had experience with Siglent 10 years ago and you are crusader since.And I posted few days ago a list of bugs by your beloved R&S for RTB2000:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5513029/#msg5513029Which is a scope that cost 10x more than SDS800xHD.Why don't you call that "shit full of bugs"?Because you have double standards.And also so set in your ways, that anything that is different to what you are used to is "wrong". It cannot be that you are incapable to learn. "Old dog, new tricks" situation...And as critical as I am to Rigol (they are much worse, bug wise, that Siglent) they also eventually iron important things out. They tend to leave some things unresolved but so do A brands. Refer to R&S release notes .Endlessly long threads? Like Rigol threads where people keep arguing for pages about some detail, while list of bugs is like 20 in total. Or where we have recent new Siglent user that opens 4 topics on same "bug" that ends up being user error. And then he writes 2000 posts (literally) on "bugs", while constantly repeating same 12 bugs in total. On a brand new, releasedAs for 12 bugs in total, again, I refer you to R&S release notes...Only scope from A brands that I would personally vouch for to have minimum bugs is my Keysight MSOX3104T.But that is only because that is 10 years old design (even older if you trace its design origins in 3000A and 4000A series) and is becoming dated today... They had all the time in the world.And they still had embarrassing moments when they released USB2.0 decoder/trigger for 3000T series, just to have customers tell them it didn't work. After investigation, they realised 3000T didn't have FPGA capable of doing that (only 4000 has) and it seems protocol was copied from 4000 and nobody ever even tested once if it works or not. And was released like that....So your rants are just that, rants, without basis in reality.Truth is different. A brands significantly decreased in quality in last 10ish years. B brands significantly improved both quality and sophistication of their equipment in meantime.While B brands are not perfect, gap was never smaller.And there is one point where cheap car becomes as reliable and dependable as A to B transport as an expensive luxury brand, and also comfortable enough to take long trips with ease. And all the difference to the luxury brand is price and glitz. Leather seats, 22 speakers 6 screen multimedia, and fancy, fancy design..Stuff that doesn't matter for actual A to B transportation. Just prestige and bragging rights.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 10:07:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 29, 2024, 07:55:31 amYou say in the video:"Price category is everything when you're talking about scopes."Very true! But why not be consistent?In the video you actively advise against ~$150 scopes.But this is also a price category and even these scopes can be more than enough for many hobbyists.In some cases, even the AWG is already included.I see no reason to categorically exclude this price category. Just take them for what they are.Any scope is better than no scope.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2024, 07:47:38 amNo but I'm giving them enough credit that they would need 200MHz+ and a decent size screen since they listed 200/500MHz scopes. If they don't then that is their fault for not specificity requirements better. Why would we try to save them money when they can't be bothered to post the relevant info?QuoteExactly, pointless speculation until they give details.Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2024, 10:07:53 am- The quality/features a $300 scope gets you over a $150 is arguably more than 2x- The type of people Dave is targeting, IMO, are more serious hobbyists or people that will be using the scope for years to come and expanding their skills and knowledge. $150 is fine if you continue to do basic hobby projects, but not if you plan to grow at all.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 05:52:39 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 29, 2024, 10:07:53 amYeah, fair enough. And I've said as much in cheap scope reviews.Usually people are talking about a bench scope though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 05:55:15 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pmYes, this.As I said, people are usually talking about a bench scope when they ask the "what first scope should I buy question".If they genuinely only have $50 or $100 to spend, then I'm not going to insist that they forget it unless they have $300.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 06:04:08 am
content: Dave we used many Yokogawa Japanese scopes since 1992,1560, DL1740, DL7440.All have been easy to use, robust and ergonomic controls.Main failure was dead backup battery, easy to replace.I have no info on Iwatsu but found early TEK digital like TDS350 somewhat hard to use.Still using the YEW 1740 and 7440.Just my experience,Jon

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 06:06:21 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 29, 2024, 08:19:16 amOk, so you've had a bad experience with Siglent, fair enough. But I'm sure even you have to admit that others haven't, and that Siglent a serious player with serious products, with countless satisfied customers, both low end and advanced.2N3055 mentioned R&S. My MXO4 R&S scope is the only scope I've ever had that I personally found several major bugs that entirely locked up the scope. No other scope has ever done that, not Siglent, not Rigol, not even the $50 cheapie handhelds. It also had a loose screw that rattled around in the chassis. To the credit of R&S they fixed it quick smart.The Keysight 3000 is the only scope I've had that has released the magic scope due to a hardware design fault.QuoteWelcome to the complex world of "bang per buck".QuoteSure, fair argument. But what's not fair is outright bashing the likes of Siglent for everyone just because you had a personal issue with it.QuoteAnd even though they got "bitten" just like you did, Lecroy decided to trust Siglent again.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:02:21 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pmThat may be true, but a $150 scope is 1000x better than no scope!Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2024, 09:30:00 pmWell, in the $150 category you certainly don't have the next 10 years in mind, but you have to start somewhere and I see nothing wrong with starting with something cheap to realize what you really need.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:06:43 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 30, 2024, 05:52:39 amI'm also talking about a bench scope.Are you saying that because of the AWG?TheHantekDSO2000 (which I bought for USD 130 on sale last November) has the AWG hardware built in (every model), you just have to “activate” it.The AWG even has some nice features that you wouldn't expect for the extremely low price (single, short pulses (20ns),AM/FMup to 25MHz...).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:35:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 30, 2024, 06:06:21 amBut still: R&S knows what they are doing and have the capacity to fix things quickly and in the right way. The RTM3004 R&S send me for a review also had some issues when I got it but it got fixed quickly as well. Unfortunately that is the world we live in. Products get released ahead of schedule.QuoteI don't have a personal issue with Siglent. I just look at it from a commercial perspective.Take these fairly recent threads for example (there are many more):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1202x-e-serial-decoding-not-working/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1032-as-bad-as-rigol-dg812/Now imagine these people are on your payroll and spend days chasing their tails due to equipment not working and technical support being useless (as Siglent support doesn't even know how a UART protocol looks like in the wild judging by the first thread). And for sure you can argue that especially the 2nd thread is made by someone lacking experience but if you read carefully / sifting through the information, you'll see that the oddities (lets put it that way) in the Siglent generator isn't helping to move the person forward.And my personal experience with Siglent is along the same lines. A couple of years ago I had two very clever junior engineers (working for one of my customers) chasing their tails for over 2 weeks worth of time due to a bug in the Siglent SDG2000 series generator (which is a highly popular and recommended model on this forum). Then I had to step in and also spend over a day figuring out what the hell was wrong with their setup (which wasn't a simple project at all) AND then spend time to hack something together to replace the generator ASAP. That loss of time has cost way more compared to buying an A-brand generator from the start.So yes, I also tried to trust Siglent again but needless to say I'm not planning on trying again any time soon based on the problems people on this forum run into (the same goes for Rigol BTW). In general I rather spend a bit more on A-brand equipment where it comes to key equipment, knowing that it will work as advertised, knowing that I get sensible answers from technical support than making do. In the end it saves me time and irritation (which is equally true for hobbyists BTW).So I'm not bashing at all. Just making a fact based statement so people can make an informed choice for themselves based on requirements and budget. Bashing would be to write A-brands are overpriced crap and owners of a Mercedes are utterly stupid

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 09:55:37 am
content: For me Rigol was more deceptive, but i wont bash them because of thatEvery brand have their quirks, and yes sadly you may or may not know them allmy only hopes are : that theses companies will upgrade their FW to correct them fast, and not make people wait yearsAnd the expression (150$ for a scope is better than nothing),i'll personally choose nothing, i've gone to / from the cheapest to the good, Hantek ... to ....you may waste more time with theses, than having a better range of products (BTW not just scopes), but even paying for better does not mean you wont have any problems ...and you better keep and save your money to improve or choose better, the vintage effect is still here too, witch mess things up ...We are checking to buy the SDS7k Siglent series after a demo was sent to us, very good scopeBut for me: just asking permission to execute an auto setup is the @#%@@ i've seen, but it does not mean the rest is crap ...but for me this thingy, is a major annoyance, all depends on how you see thingsyou'll never get the perfect picture, even if you pay thousands,I understand Nctnico ... i may say so far we are lucky, and we do automatisations with Siglent sdg1000 series and sds1000x scopes, done tests with the SDS7k 3ghz model all is good ... for now the IT guy is happy lollSO far with "upgrades" we saved 10k $$$ with many Siglent instruments

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 10:14:48 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 30, 2024, 09:55:37 amIf you don't have better one? I don't believe you.This price range is certainly not for professionals or advanced amateurs.Quote from: coromonadalix on May 30, 2024, 09:55:37 amYes, that's what hobbies are for, to waste time.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 01:01:07 pm
content: QuoteThey must have been Very Clever to the point of geniuses if they couldn't find out by themself what is wrong in two weeks with two people and it took you only little over day to find out.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 01:35:16 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on May 30, 2024, 01:01:07 pmThere is something like tunnelvision and not expecting test equipment to misbehave. When developing something, your test equipment is like a golden standard. It 'only' took me a day because the engineers had already checked everything they could and had run out of possible causes for the effect they where seeing; it is not like I redid all their work. At that point I got the idea of doing an equipment check as a last ditch effort.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 02:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on May 30, 2024, 09:55:37 amHa-ha - so you are one of those guys who never hits the Auto button unintentionally while crafting a complicated acquisition….

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 03:04:10 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on May 30, 2024, 02:58:46 pmAutoset typically screws everything up so I avoid pressing it. The Iwatsu DS-5624A the OP has listed actually has a system setting to disable the autoset button. All oscilloscopes should have this feature...

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 03:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 30, 2024, 03:04:10 pmThe Hantek DSO2000 has a cancel option. I have often used this.Manual says:Cancel: Let the oscilloscope recall the previous setup.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 07:34:30 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 30, 2024, 03:04:10 pmTotally agree. I avoid pressing it too, but it occasionally happens when I switch scopes. Not only Autoset screws everything up (most of the times...) but it also takes its time doing it, leaving you with nothing better to do but watch what you just did, for quite a few looong seconds. Then you have to start over...I have recently used a Rigol MSO5000, with the Autoset button placed conveniently close the Run/Stop button (same color, same size, same tactile feeling). Not fun. Siglent SDS1104 also has the Autoset button dangerously close to the Run/Stop button, but at least they bothered to choose a different color for it (bright blue). Keysights and more expensive Siglents (e.g. SDS2000) have the Autoset button recessed (aren't they smart?), so at least you feel you are pressing the wrong button. Might have stopped a few slow, hesitant people with low-self confidence.Kudos to Iwatsu for allowing you disable the feature altogehter.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on May 30, 2024, 07:34:30 pmI'm in the opposite camp; I'm lazy, and when I can get away with it, Autoset is often a good starting point for me.Siglent makes you press the Autoset button twice or confirm on screen (SDS2504X+ here). If I could disable the confirmation, I would. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:15:23 pm
content: I'm with the crowd that are happy that Autoset And Default should have confirmation..We are all different, aparently....

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:28:39 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 30, 2024, 08:15:23 pmThe cheapest scope has cancel options for Autoset and Default SetupImo the best solution.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 30, 2024, 08:28:39 pmYes if that works for you.. Default I press only very deliberately, and Auto only by mistake. In which case I don't even want to wait for it to finish to press Undo... IMO.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 08:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 30, 2024, 08:50:08 pmAutoset takes 3 to 4 seconds and Default Setup works immediately.I have no problem with this.The important thing is that if you accidentally press the button, you can immediately restore the previous status.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 09:09:33 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 30, 2024, 08:57:45 pmYou don't, I do. As far as I'm concerned, both Default and Autoset are buttons that I would like were used for something useful instead. On Siglent you can Default from menu anyways. Auto I don't need at all.If in doubt, I can quickly set Auto triggering (or force if needed), set channel offset to zero and V/div large to get signal on screen. Press Trigger level for auto (it has that on Trigger) and twiddle timebase..I never need Auto. I don't remember when I used it myself. Last time I did was to verify bug with Auto, long time ago. But never used it in work. I simply don't need it.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 09:22:40 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 30, 2024, 09:09:33 pmThat probably depends on the scope.You need to know what Autoset does so that you can decide whether it makes sense.With my scope, Autoset changes many parameters, including acq. mode, mem. depth, BW limitation, coupling...So if I want a kind of “reset”, Autoset can save me a few button presses.If I want to keep the channel and acquisition settings, it is of course not suitable (if it happens anyway -> Cancel )

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 10:30:30 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on May 30, 2024, 08:02:21 amThe Hantek DSO2000 is currently selling for $202 for 2CH 100MHz:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802172076555.htmlThats not too bad.If its the choice between having a scope and not as a hobbyist, can understand.If you plan to use the thing to get you through school, I would use student loan money, save up a few more months, etc.

author: asterion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 05:02:59 am
content: Appreciate all the info! I was hoping that by going the used route I could get a good scope for around 1k but that seems unrealistic now. In an ideal world I would have preferred a 500MHz 4 channel scope with some SPI/I2C decoding capabilities but I’m ok with 200MHz if that’s more realistic.Right now I’m between the SDS3034XHD and SDS2204XH. The 3000 series seems like decent features but not sure if it’s worth the extra $1k.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 05:21:09 am
content: Quote from: asterion on May 31, 2024, 05:02:59 amOfficially, 200 vs 350 MHzTested, ~300 vs ~400 MHz500 vs 1GHz designs200 vs 400 MptsZero vs active probe support^ all that costs money.My additional 1c worth, SDS2000X HD are whisper quiet and on promo with a killer deal offered on option bundle pricing until June 30.https://siglentna.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/Yeah I know, decisions.......

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 06:43:12 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 30, 2024, 10:30:30 pmSorry for being off topic, but I have to make this clear:The trick with the DSO2000 is to buy it as cheaply as possible, otherwise you'll be unhappy afterwards.You can get it here for $162 shipped:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806164187706.htmlOr tomorrow on "Choice day" also here:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801658604066.htmlIt's only a question of price.The DSO2000 is an incredible deal for that price (I bought mine for $130, including the AWG hardware), but I wouldn't pay "real money" ($250+) for it either.If I wanted to spend more than $200, I'd save up for 12-bit / 4-channel. But that's a different decision...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 01:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: asterion on May 31, 2024, 05:02:59 amDo you need direct active probe support? Is 500MHz max good enough for you?If you don't need active probes, or to go above 500MHz, then the 2000 series is a better buy, especially with the sale bundle that tautech mentioned (the bundle costs less than the included logic probes). Besides the slightly quieter fan, I would also guess it has slightly better noise with the lower speed design.

author: asterion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 11:04:02 pm
content: I doubt I’ll ever really need to go above 500 MHz, but active probes can be nice for tuning crystals. Spending an extra 1k for that almost seems worth it when you account for all the extra features.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 12:06:02 am
content: Then again, brand specific active probes are always locked to a manufacturer and may not even work on all models from that manufacturer. So if you buy an oscilloscope from a different brand you'll need different active probes.There are lots of generic active and passive probes for HF and current on the market which will work with any oscilloscope. These are a better long term investment. Only downside is that you'll need to set the probe scaling factor manually.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 01:49:12 am
content: Exactly why I mentioned "direct active probe support." He could always get Lasmux's probe when ready.There is an adapter that should eventually work with different probes on the SDS3000X HD. Not great yet though, but I suspect better support (more probe compatibility) will come in future firmware updates.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 05:46:52 am
content: Quote from: asterion on May 31, 2024, 11:04:02 pmYou can get active probes that use a regular BNC input. No need to have a scope with that interface support, it's just a more convenient from a powering point of view and auto scale factor set.

author: asterion
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 09:37:09 am
content: Ah nice! if I can get third party ones then the deal for the 200 MHz scope seems like a good option.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 12:06:31 pm
content: Coming back to OP's question ...Quote from: asterion on May 28, 2024, 10:57:14 am... and a bit later ...Quote from: asterion on May 28, 2024, 12:46:00 pmSo it seems to me that spending $1000+ and up to $2500 is perfectly feasible and fine for OP. Hence, while I do understand that a hint at e.g. a modern Siglent scope may be useful, I think basic respect as well as the assumption that OP isn't an idiot and *has done* some thinking about what he is/should be aiming for should be expected.Wrt his 3 candidates my opinion is that the Iwatsu probably is the best choice. Iwatsu is a very reputable company and the only major drawbacks seem to be that it's somewhat slow and that it's not a MSO (which for me personally is important but maybe not for OP).IMO the Yokogawa isn't a worthy candidate because of its low sampling rate, and the Tektronix isn't because of its price.IfOP would be willing to consider modern scopes too I'd suggest to look at (only) Siglent scopes, preferably at not too new models i.e. models with mature firmware like the SDS2000X. Why Siglent? Because they are the only chinese manufacturer whom I consider a near-A brand.Have a nice weekend everyone

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2024, 07:15:14 pm
content: I guess you never heard about GW Instek and Micsig then.

author: moerm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2024, 09:30:20 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 01, 2024, 07:15:14 pmFair point. I agree that GW-Instek products (often) are not "cheap crap" - but a) that's not a chinese company (but taiwanese), and b) their products tend to be more expensive than comparable chinese products.But again, fair point and I rather like many GW-Instek products. But the point here was about a potential cheap(ish) but good alternative and all in all IMO Siglent scopes seemed to be an attractive option.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2024, 01:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: asterion on June 01, 2024, 09:37:09 amI have a Caltest CT4121, but it's discontinued now by the looks of it.But there are others:https://www.tequipment.net/Pico/TA112/Active-Differential-Oscilloscope-Probes/?v=7514