Blue Tinum DVB-C set-top-box - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: tt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 09:49:19 am
content: Hi,Recently, I bought in a supermarket a Cable Set-top-box (DVB-C) for 100$.It supports HDMI, it's full HD (1080i), it supports MPEG4, has USB which allows to connect HDD drive and play movies, music and photos.In addition it allows to record to HDD.It's a really nice device, with handy remote controller, the picture is sharp and device jumps between channels fast.In that price range their support is even alive.I was wondering how it's possible in this price range to achieve so much.I was thinking what kinda of mC they used, since in this price range FPGA is out of the question.So I had a look inside and I found Mstar MSD7828L (http://www.mstarsemi.com/) which is a dedicated ASIC.Once I found that, I had a felling somehow that the market of such and similar devices is moving really fast.In a way that the technology is changing so fast that it's not possible to create something similar in a garage that would compete with it.I tried to get the quote for the chip but I didn't find anywhere.Anyway you would probably buy millions of them.Greetings, tt.

author: tt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 10:08:56 am
content: If you buy 2k of these the price is around 30$

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 10:34:45 am
content: Economies of scale and mass production beats custom made any day, in terms of price.If you try to make something that everyone can use, and a big manufacturer gets wind of it, you'll be beaten hands down. However, said manufacturer has to make and sell 1000s of devices to make it worth their while.So any non-mass product still can thrive in electronics. Common examples are marine, hazmat, mining, space, and military.

author: tt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 11:22:50 am
content: Hi,Thank you for your answer & time,Quote from: saturation on July 07, 2010, 10:34:45 amDo you know perhaps how fast will this occur?I guess doing an ASIC is a bit of work and then still you have to do device itself.I guess it depends on many factor, but imagine that you are releasing a product for masses.When do you expect the manufacturer will catch-up with you, after how many weeks or months he will be able to duplicate your design?Another question is about the quantity.I guess designing and implementing an ASIC is a quite expensive process.Once (2yrs ago), I got a quote for 90nm semi-custom IC for around 750k$.(I don't have any clue how much does it cost to produce chipset I mentioned before).So under which numbers your market is save?If these guys have to invest 500k$ than probably they need to sell more than 1k devices.You can buy 2k of set-top-boxes I mention for 30$/piece.I guess you would need to sell 25k of such devices to make a profit.If that's true than this still leaves some space for "garage engineers".Greetings.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 03:13:42 pm
content: I can only give you my industry insight no personal experience, as I don't work in large scale manufacturing.Yes, the key to surviving is that the big maker will find the risk of making a competing product too high as the market for the device is not big. However, if what you make doesn't require substantially retooling but a simple rework of another device, then watch out, they can come out much faster such as in the case of HDMI cables, low cost cables came out within 1 year of the original spec and custom prices, dropping from $20/cable to $0.50/cable. A maker usually has to have capital costs to design, manufacture, distribute a product, and they have to calculate what quantity after all the extra costs are subtracted before they reap a profit. There is no fixed rule for volume, as it depends on the product.Sometimes, the device sold is essentially a chipset or evaluation board, requiring only a case and few external parts to get going. Many generic Wifi routers are made this way with chipsets by Ralink.If you develop a unique product that appeals to the majority of users, for example Sanyo's eneloop LSD AA battery, which came to market in 2006, competitors were in market by 2008.Once in market, the primary maker can examine the competition, and if they did their legal due diligence before product release, such as patents or copyrights, then they can sue the competition for portions of their profit for infringement.I do not think the garage engineer can compete in the DVR or cable box arena for the mass market, but folks I've seen who do so do so with intent to break the encryption on premium channels.Quote from: tt on July 07, 2010, 11:22:50 am

author: tt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2010, 03:29:15 pm
content: This are very valuable informations. Thanks.