EEVblog #1356 - The USA finally gets Solar Roadways! LOL! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 10:03:30 pm
content: If you thought Solar Rowadways was done and dusted in 2020, you were WRONG!French road company Colas Wattway have found a new sucker to try their epicially failed Wattway solar panels, this time in Georgia in the United States as part of a government funded initiative through Curiosity Labs in Peachtree Corners Georgia to install the first Solar Roadways in the United States.https://www.curiositylabptc.com/peachtree-corners-smart-city-and-the-ray-install-usas-first-road-surface-solar-panels-on-autonomous-vehicle-lane/https://www.peachtreecornersga.gov/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 10:36:03 pm
content: They KNEW it was flawed but pushed ahead with it anyway!https://energynews.us/2019/02/26/southeast/highway-to-sustainability-in-georgia-zero-carbon-transportation-is-the-goal/

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:13:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 17, 2020, 10:03:30 pmThere's a theory floating around that a segment of the community wants to see solar roadways/walkways everywhere they go. The idea is that the whole point is not power generation. It's aesthetics.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:21:09 pm
content: Actually... this piece of solar roadway has been there for a while. Since 2016. The new installation is an update with newer panels.BTW: stating solar panels are better put on roofs is an empty phrase without doing research into whether those roofs can actually support solar panels. If a roof turns out to be unsuitable you get something like this:Fortunately this happened while there where no people in the stadium. Otherwise it would have been a massacre.Quote from: EEVblog on December 17, 2020, 10:36:03 pmInteresting article which also clearly states that there is no government money used:“The Ray’s board tries things the state would never fund with taxpayer money — at this time,”

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:26:52 pm
content: Maybe I am too suspicious but given the present context and ideology my suspicion is someone might want it to fail so you can smear the whole concept of cleaner energy later."I told you (insert target here) would not work."Much like cutting a department budget, waiting one or two years and then axing it because it does not work.Or a government department with reducing personnel serving the public "to provide better streamlined service" then they privatised it and two years later the overall price to run it was not quite three time of what it was before!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2020, 11:21:09 pmMost roofs are designed to accommodate the extra weight of solar panels. Not that the panels are considered in the design, but the structure needs to built strong enough not to collapse all too easy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:53:27 pm
content: But that extra weight margin is for snow, water, wind, construction errors, etc. If you add a few metric tonnes of glass on top of a roof which is not designed for the extra load you are eating into the safety margins. It is simple as that.For example: the roofs of the commercial buildings Dave shows in his video are likely not able to support solar panels; I can't imagine they won't install solar panels on roofs of buildings in a place about new energy usage unless there is a really good reason for it.

author: OpenCircuit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2020, 11:59:19 pm
content: UPFRONT:I AM NOT EVEN GOING TO DISCUSS THE LEGITIMACY OF THIS PROJECT...THAT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING STUPID. FRANCE HAS ALREADY BEEN THROUGH THIS AND IT WAS A TOTAL FLOP!In the USA, gov't projects are about exploiting the public.So, how this works...Cons: We can do this roadway and we will give you (approving city officials) some money when the project is finished.Approving City Officials: Sounds good, cuz we have governmental immunity. The FBI* is more corrupt than we (city officials) are so nothing to worry about from the Feds; they will never investigate this scam. They are more interested in catching people for crimes against corporations. Maybe you guys (cons) could give us a little up-front too?Public: I voted red/blue. (they get screwed no matter who).No this is not a dream. However, the analysis is sound if you are an approving city official. They do nothing other than sign on approved line, immune from legal prosecution, and they get money before and after the project is complete. I would guesstimate the amount each approving city official receives at 10-20x their public salaries.Sad, it is just a never ending cycle of the public getting fucked. It is just endless.... GO MURICA!This is so blatantly stupid* you can fig it out on a sticky note applying the laws of 1st grade math!*Funny how they can catch the McDonals Monopoly scam, but they wont catch these gov't cons.**OK, this is a gov't scamming the public out of tax funds.Note: Check the current GA senate race atm. Poor GA.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 12:55:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2020, 11:21:09 pmThat's a bullshit design flaw in the roof. Believe me, 1 single medium snow fall or hail storm and that roof would have 10x the weight load of those tiny solar panels. Never mind the up&down forces exerted on that open roof design during even the weakest tornado or hurricane or just really heavy winds. Such forces on such a large flat object against nature would make the extra load of those panels appear to be nothing by comparison.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 02:26:32 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 18, 2020, 12:55:00 amI'm no civil engineer, but I was thinking the same thing - especially wind loading. (Not much call for snow fall considerations here in Oz.)

author: Razor512
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 05:24:18 am
content: If you are wondering why not put the panels on the roof, there is a good reason. If you put solar panels on the roof, then the panels will be directly exposed to harmful UV light from the sun.But if placed in a road, then you can shield the panels from harmful UV, by simply using cars to block the UV.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 05:56:46 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2020, 11:53:27 pmCan you provide me some time codes, please?

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 07:39:45 am
content: I noticed something on the Platio Website:https://platiosolar.com/https://platiosolar.com/storage/app/media/content/page6/shore.jpgQuoteLooks like that particular one is fake and just an edited stock photo:https://www.storyblocks.com/images/stock/relaxed-young-woman-walking-in-marina-with-yacht-boats-in-bacground-bozfedu2zj8jmsmabhttps://dm0qx8t0i9gc9.cloudfront.net/watermarks/image/rDtN98Qoishumwih/storyblocks-relaxed-young-woman-walking-in-marina-with-yacht-boats-in-bacground_SuggMx__2W_SB_PM.jpg

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2020, 08:43:24 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on December 18, 2020, 12:55:00 amRoofs in the NL are calculated to carry a static load between 100kg to 200kg per square meter. A solar panel easely adds 20kg or more per square meter in case of flat mounted panels. This stadium was built at a budget so adding the solar panels ate a significant amount (20% is not out of the question) of safety margin away.On a flat roof (like most commercial building have) the weight of solar panels positioned at an angle gets into the 40kg to 50kg per square meter ballpark due to the extra ballast.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 10:15:17 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2020, 11:21:09 pmWho one earth would advocate for putting solar panels on roofs that can't support them?Assessing a roof for structual suitability is a basic job at the feasibility stage, along with other factors.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 10:57:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 19, 2020, 10:15:17 amI'm still waiting for the smoking gun that you apparently have captured on filum.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 11:15:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 19, 2020, 10:15:17 amWell it is you who shows roofs in the video and leap frogs to the conclusion that they should have solar panels fitted on them without questioning why there aren't any solar panels on them.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 11:25:39 am
content: What actually happened:https://youtu.be/2QSoAqEoGRgBad welds, bad inspection, bad maintenance.Roofs are designed to take additional load from heavy snow and strong winds.The weight of the solar installation is comparable to 4 inches of fresh fluffy snow.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2020, 12:19:26 pm
content: BTW, I've noticed that here, they only placed the panels in the middle of the road, where no wheels are expected. It s also on a lane, separated with continuous line, so a car wouldn't actually drive on the panels.It is still a stupid idea. But I think an engineer looked at it and said:"Maybe we can install it, that it only breaks after a year, not a few month.""How much is the ROI? 7x9x2 years? Lets do this!"

author: Dr Bob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 05:52:43 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 19, 2020, 12:19:26 pmWhile drivers are not supposed to enter or exit the lane where the panels are, they will. People leave and enter HOV lanes crossing the double-double lines all of the time. One did that right in front of a car I was riding in and caused me to miss a flight. How much and at what odds do you want to place a bet that they'll run the street sweepers over the panels and give them a good steel bristle scrape every so often? The driver will have been told, but he won't notice until the pitch of the machinery changes and he figures out why. By that time, he'll be past the panels.I notice that there is already scratched up surfaces on the panels or they had to be fortified with embedded grit so they wouldn't get too slippery in the wet. That's not good for transmission.

author: Dr Bob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 06:17:44 am
content: But wait! The hits keep coming.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9067135/Coventry-working-Scalextric-style-electric-vehicle-charging-go.htmlYeah, yeah, DM, I know but you can find more articles on this elsewhere.Due to "range anxiety", a made up concept, roads should have wireless charging built in. Shouldn't be a big problem adding another few grand to the price of an EV for a limited return. With all of the road crews sitting idle most of the time, a road with additional embedded tech will give them something to do. /sarcAnybody that uses wireless charging for their mobile devices know that you have to get the two things centered pretty good or it doesn't work for poo. How will a moving car get very good charging efficiency going from coil to coil? How does the user get billed?Heavy goods trucks are not the "low hanging fruit", passenger and smaller delivery trucks are. Honestly, for long distance shipping, trains are super cheap per ton/mile. Dave's report on the EV bus trials in Sydney is awesome and the busses seem to be doing exceptionally well. I think it's Protera that uses Lithium Titinate battery technology in busses. It's not as energy dense, but it can be charged very rapidly. That makes it ideal for something like a city bus that doesn't go far and has scheduled breaks during the day where the bus could be recharged via overhead lines in 10-15 minutes. Enough time for the driver to use the restroom and have their mandated rest period.The great idea I heard was putting solar panel shade over irrigation canals and aqueducts to control evaporation. Brilliant idea. In the US, school teachers aren't paid that well in some places vs. the cost of living. If the school car parks were covered in solar canopies and teachers could recharge EVs for free. That might be a big perk. The State could also help the teachers finance the cars in the first place. The balance of generation would offset the power costs of the schools. When I was in school, it would have been great to have aircon in the hot months, but the buildings were poorly insulated and the school district couldn't afford it. Just having solar panels on the roof might have lowered the temperature in the classroom by itself.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2020, 07:57:44 pm
content: expect more of this fuzzy science.as the US white house becomes the rainbow house, run by teletubbies & muppets.world of clockwork cars & cardboard houses.

author: cbassett1000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2020, 06:10:52 pm
content: I have some first hand photos of the first iteration of GA solar roadways! Taken Christmas Day 2020, I took photos of the installation at the GA welcome center in Troup County. This installation is only a year old to my understanding, and panels are already delaminating from the roadway. It appears there is a center channel for the power wires to go down between. I can get more photos on request. The welcome center is supposedly totally solar powered! Of course not by the roadways I'm sure... probably by the TWO BIG ANGLED PANELS on a pole, steps away! There is also a charging station on site. (KIA is big because of the manufacturing plant nearby, they pour a ton of money in the economy locally)My next photo set to add will be the ACTUAL proper right-of-way installation at Exit 14 on I-85 (14 miles away).https://www.lagrangenews.com/2018/08/24/first-pollinator-friendly-right-of-way-solar-in-nation-coming-to-troup-co/and The Ray's website about ithttps://theray.org/tech/right-of-way-solar/. This installation is operational to my knowledge, and I will photograph it soon (it's not on Gmaps yet). It gets SO much sunlight! It's angled.... it's dare I say... PROPER!Without further ado, here the link to my Google Photos folder with all the photos I've taken (or will take) of solar installations in GA. (Will include the Exit 14 solar farm and the Peachtree Corners roadway when I get to the areas)https://photos.app.goo.gl/iWLch6oo11AxpdwY8

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2020, 11:51:37 am
content: Quote from: cbassett1000 on December 26, 2020, 06:10:52 pmThanks. I liked the sign "Let's drive the future"It should be"Let's drive the future,Speed limit: 5,No trucks allowed,Dead end"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 10:38:30 am
content: Quote from: cbassett1000 on December 26, 2020, 06:10:52 pmAwesome work, thanks!

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2021, 05:42:43 pm
content: It is very disturbing that a flashy video on kickstarter is able to do such a no sense damage.We EE are not more considered....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2021, 10:06:22 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on January 01, 2021, 05:42:43 pmWell, they have recycled that video and done it again!I'll shoot another video today

author: benbradley
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 03:56:40 am
content: Here's a new video of the Peachtree Corners solar roadway. These outside lanes happen to be a test track for self-driving cars, so I expect them to get very low traffic, helping to "prove" the longevity of this very short (20 feet?) piece of Solar Roadway.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2021, 11:56:56 am
content: They're doing solar canals in India:https://www.ecosia.org/images?q=solar%20canals%20india

author: Robert Smith Eco Warrior
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 03:19:50 pm
content: My boys and I watched this episode earlier. I am astonished how much money councils and governments waste on completely useless projects that are obviously a complete waste of £millions or £billions. It makes me very angry as I scratch around trying to make a few thousand £'s and the government and councils piss it away on rubbish..... GRRRRRR

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 07:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: Robert Smith Eco Warrior on May 01, 2021, 03:19:50 pmThere's a portion of the community that does indeed want to see this at least being attempted. They are sincere if not misguided. Unfortunately, Council only responds to who is the noisiest. You've got to harness your anger into teaching your boys to stoically counteract the effect of having a portion of their future income wasted on known follies.And when you've figured out how to do that, teach me how!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 12:25:15 am
content: As absurd as it would be, I'm sure you could get some positive traction with the idea of solar canals - where they put the solar cells at thebottomof the canal, with water flowing over the top of them.You could have similar "benefits" that the Indian concept offers, such as keeping the panels cool -reallycool - and not requiring additional land - with the trade off of less visual pollution against reduced evaporation. (Let's not complicate matters with reduced efficiency from sediments and water absorption.)Now this idea is in the public domain, patents on the concept become more difficult.You heard it on the EEVblog first!!!!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 12:27:31 am
content: Not sure about the cost of the support structure for the Indian solution, but that's the only criticism I have. A damn side more sensible than driving vehicles over solar panels.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 07:55:58 pm
content: If somebody actually proposed making roads out of tin glass instead of tarmac they'd be laughed out of the room at any meeting.Call them "solar panels" though and the funding flows.

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2021, 12:36:07 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 20, 2020, 07:57:44 pmPerhaps one of the big issues, wireless power transfer losses and costs, has been solved....https://interestingengineering.com/new-method-could-make-charging-evs-while-driving-a-reality