CE Self Certification Risks and Responsibilities  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ricko_uk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 11:29:43 pm
content: Hi,I have been reading quite a bit on CE self certification but still not clear about risks and responsibilities as PCB designer in case I do CE self-certify a PCB for a client's project. Can anybody share any info you might have?Thank you

author: Niklas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 07:09:26 am
content: I would have been careful about stating compliance for the PCBA as it could be interpreted in the wrong way. Just as with EMC tests, what matters is not just the PCBA, but the full assembly with mechanical parts and connected harnesses.If you want to make a declaration, make sure to specify what you have tested and verified. What you would like to avoid is the risk that someone tries to blame you for your part whan they have not verified the complete product. It could help to document clearance, creepage, UL/VDE/TÜV reports for X and Y capacitors etc, flammability ratings and such things in a report, that can later be used to certify the complete product.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 08:19:21 am
content: A PCBA is usually a component, not a finished product, hence outside the scope of CE marking. I believe originally when CE marking came in, it was illegal to CE mark something that wasn't in scope, but ISTR this subsequently changed

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 08:26:07 am
content: Depending on the voltages, power, application and quantity, your risk/benefit to self cet vs a compliance test org (TUV, UL, ETL, VDE) can be reviewed.Eg a 100 pcs DIY /open source/ gadget on 5V batt or USB power low riskA medical, avaition, mains connected device with high voltages/currents/EMI source, great risk, of liability and regulatory action.Beware that non-compliant or suspected counterfiet CE mark (CHINA) can be held at frontier/customs and you are subject to fine or the shipment destroyed.Jon

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 10:32:04 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 16, 2023, 08:19:21 amProblem is, with WEEE and RoHS basically everything with electronics got into the scope of marking.Anyway, what has to be marked is what the end-user gets.So if your PCB is something the end-user really can hold in his hands, because he could order that bare PCB, you'd need to think about (the applicable parts of) CE marking.This means, if you have a product that allows for user-upgradable-options, you may have CE marks all over the placeIf I'm not mistaking, you're from the UK, so you can't really do a CE self-declaration... it's the same we EU guys can't do UKCA or anyone of us could do FCC SDoC.This needs to get signed by someone who could get charged in case something's really problematic enough to bother someone.If your customer uses your design in his product, he's the one who needs to do the CE stuff... but that's not really a certification... it's "just" a declaration that tells authorities that you think you have done everything needed.In theory, you could go to some notified body to do certification... but nobody really wants to do this because of the troubles you're gonna get into.A notified body really needs some test for every aspect.You may just refer to some components datasheet for RoHS when you purchase stuff from reputable manufactureres... a notified body will need some test-report to accept this.So in your case, I'd review your contract...73

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 11:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: ricko_uk on May 15, 2023, 11:29:43 pmAs a PCB designer, you don't have to self-certify anything. You deliver a design. Period.If you also deliver the PCBs, You'll also need to confirm RoHS compliance (certification is up to the PCB manufacturer). That's it.Everything else is in the contract with your customer (creepage distances, EN60xxx compliance, fire etc.). This needs to be documented from your side, so your customer has documentation to base the certification on.Because yourcustomerneeds to do the certification, not you. You're just supplying a component for the final product.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 11:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 16, 2023, 08:19:21 amExactly. As a provider of a sub-assembly part, you're out of scope for CE marking. Your client is the one responsible for CE marking their product.What you can do if you're being nice is provide as much technical data as possible about your board to help your client with the CE marking. And that's if your really nice.But you're not responsible of it.

author: ricko_uk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 11:38:56 pm
content: Thank you all for the feedback, much appreciated as always!

author: wilhe_jo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 10:36:18 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 16, 2023, 11:18:37 pmBe careful with this... just look at open-frame PSUs. They're "just" subassemblies, but are CE marked.Even cables are usually CE marked.It's more about the possibility an end-customer could buy them and/or if it could be used "stand-alone".Getting into the realm of CE-marking is pretty easy.What I get in my talks to regulators: If you think you could get away with some "exception", you're 99% wrong!However, what you have to do can be as trivial as having a nice RoHS on file...Maybe one should draw attention to the Blue Guide...https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=OJ:C:2022:247:TOCAnyway, as long as you're not the manufacturer (ie. the one listed on the rating plate/manual/...), you're not the one who needs to deal with CE.What is from interest, however, is what you have in your contracts...73

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 01:48:23 pm
content: The question is off. CE in your (assumed) context, e.g. non-medical, is by definition a self-certification. There is no other mean than self-certification. Someone representing the company putting the product into market needs to sign their name in the declaration of conformity and that's it, they are responsible. This is still the case even if you buy consultation or certification services; you are still doing the self-certification.The big question is, shouldyoube doing the declaration, or your client. It's a big fundamental question and can't be answered with so little information. Are you putting the product to the market, maybe in co-operation / funded by your client? I that case, maybe you should do the declaration of conformity and carry product responsibility. Or maybe your client will be the legal "manufacturer" of the product and you are just offering design consultation? Which way is it?The fact it's only a component as mentioned by others is actually completely irrelevant. It is just ahintof who might be responsible, not the actual rule itself. Being a subassembly suggests the final manufacturer is different from you and then it's OK to sell your subassembly to them without any CE marking, as they need to self-certify their whole thing (which is still the case even if you self-certified your module). On the other hand, if you not only design the subassembly but also put it on the market as something that can be used as-is, then you need to do the declaration.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 02:01:26 pm
content: Quote from: wilhe_jo on May 17, 2023, 10:36:18 amEspecially since you are outside the EU, so extra rules will apply if you are the importer.

author: redkitedesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 03:52:37 pm
content: It's actually quite simple. The one bringing it to market IN the EU-member-state is responsible. That has to be an EU-member-state person, reachable for EU courts and subject to EU-member-state law. And that person has to sign a certificate of conformity, stating which product confirms to which specification. Something you should not sign unless you are actually sure.If you're in the UK, you can put a CE mark on a radioactive turd emitting randomly in an aircraft-tower communications band and it is OK. (might have to wait until the retained EU law bill passes, but no EU entity will object officially) But you cannot sign the certificate of conformity (OK, you can, but it would not be valid), unless you are a citizen of an EU country.Any person wanting to import (or produce) such a turd in the EU will have to sign the certificate of conformity before selling (or using it!), or face the wrath of the goods inspection of the member state they're in.Thus, any chinese or pommie can put an CE mark on anything, it's the one buying it from Ali (the importer!) who is responsible for the conformity.Makes sense, as it is much easier to prosecute the importer than the (chinese) manufacturer.