3D gerber viewer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Medo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2011, 06:30:57 am
content: Again I messed text mirroring on my board.Is there any gerber viewer out there that would enable me to view multiple gerber layers as one board and to rotate it freely. Something like old eevblog intro (obviously without components).I currently use GC-Prevue for checking gerbers but I am getting annoyed with checking bottom layer properly.P.S. Of course, since I am cheap bastard, freeware would be great.

author: Bambur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2011, 11:04:14 am
content: I have been using this Gerber-files viewerhttp://gerbv.sourceforge.netYou can change the order of layers drawn, switch them on/off and see the drills as well, do different kinds of measurements manually to ensure the Gerbers are OK. The only disadvantage I can see is that it runs under Linux.

author: donkm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2011, 07:20:49 pm
content: there is a free (beta) real 3D gerber viewer here:http://www.zofzpcb.com/

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2011, 07:34:28 pm
content: Quote from: donkm on December 29, 2011, 07:20:49 pmI tried this the other day and it crashed on me - maybe something in my gerbers that it didnt like i guess. I've tried a heap of them but am still on the lookout for a 3rd party gerber viewer that can display slotted holes (g85's) as I havent found one yet.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2011, 05:36:37 pm
content: There is a new version of zofzPCB viewer (0005), more gerber commands are accepted.However drill-cmd G85 will give "unknown G-code" error. please send me some examples of how g85 is used. would be great to get at least a part of your design, I need some data for debuging and testing. use zofz@zofzpcb.com

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 01:09:16 am
content: Quote from: zofz on December 31, 2011, 05:36:37 pmHere is a small example of an excellon drill file using G85.M71M48T01C1.100T02C1.500%T01X197500Y101200X52500Y151200Y126200Y101200X197500Y151200T02X135000Y196200G85X120000Y196200 X135000Y56200G85X120000Y56200 M30A pic of the board is below

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2012, 04:26:06 pm
content: Thanks for the files.I will implement the G85 in the next version (0006)

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2012, 08:18:14 pm
content: G85 is ready, (ver 0.0.0006)http://www.zofzpcb.com/Download/ZofzPCB.zip

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2012, 03:17:12 am
content: Quote from: Bambur on August 05, 2011, 11:04:14 amIt is also available in the SourceForge page a binary/compile windows version, runs sweet under Windows 7.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2012, 01:03:20 am
content: http://youtu.be/RbRanKRQP5A

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2012, 05:48:51 pm
content: Just gave it aquick try. Nice idea - a few comments:The net colouring looks totally horrible - iThere are typically so many nets that it looks like a milticolour mess.It may sometimes be useful but should be disabled by default, with a keypress to turn on/off. Clicking 'Net colour' button seems to have no effect.The colour options you typically want, in order of usefulness :One color per layer, with ability to highlight one selected net at a time.One colour per layer type (copper, resist, silk etc.), to look like the actual PCBColour per net.It seems to only be possible to peel a layer all the way off - it would be useful to be able to seperate the layers slightly and fly around inside, e.g. to look at inner layer connectivityUser interface is a bit non-intuitive - I absolutely hate software that deviates from Windows conventions for no good reasons. Any supposed advantage is outweighed by annoyance at being different.Esc key quits program - AARGH!

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2012, 12:50:57 pm
content: It took me some time, there is a new version of the software.Mostly I took your advice - Mike - thank you for your review!little background: The program is written for DirectX.Therefore I had to decide my line: either1. I have full featured 3D or2. I can use windows GUI (based on GDI, not DirectX).Direct3D full screen excludes typical windows user interface widgets.I decide for 3D quality - now I have to crate my own GUI, at least for some basic tasks.That is like in most of the 3D games.However, now, I have made a big step towards expected menu system, little step in open-file dialogs, andalso, I have systematized the GUI.colors:There is still this ugly random generator for net-colors, but now you can adjust amount of ugliness using color mixer.and here are several color presets, to start with.(under View menu)distance measurements:that is what I was missing the most.easiest access via right mouse click menu.I invite you to try hovering and pressing keyboard buttons - see right-click-menu or F1layers separation, enabling layers on/offstill pendingbut you can have a car ride inside the board anyway:go inside there, choice direction (L-drag and Pg-Up), level-up (space or tab) Pg-Up to drive, 'A'/'D' is left/right.There is also single layer mode and you can peel layers from both sides of the board.All under mouse wheel and wheel click.esc - is not closing the program !now I go to look on some pick-and-place files,- howeverdebugging, is very importantto me - throw me some bones (is that right expression?)there is an anonymous tool to simplify your decision of firing a bug report.more info:http://www.zofzpcb.com/help.htmlor download button:http://www.zofzpcb.com/

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2012, 02:31:52 pm
content: I will play with this today. Looks very interesting. Here is a couple of things that may or not be implmemented- ability to select a number of nets and have the others 'dimmed' ( grayscale 50% ). This allows for analysis of loop in the board. While in this mode : clicking one one of them hghlights in pure white. Clicking on another reverts the white one to a color and makes the clicked one pure white.- colorblind people.... I for example do not see green. I have only a 'luma' receptor but no 'chroma detector for green.So , if you show me 10% red and 10% green... They are identical. Of course i know grass is green nad where the green traffic light is, but if you play with intensity ( especially low contrast rates... ) it becomes a nightmare...So have mode where you restrict you color palette to high contrast colors...- support for a spacenavigator ? That would be really cool !- ability to set the distance between layers ( realistic so you see the real boardstack , and an 'exploded view' mode so you can go 'inside'. This is good to check buried vias or counterdrilled pads.

author: andersendr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 06:17:00 am
content: @ free_e, He already has the ability to set the layer thickness. When the layer is imported it was an option. Also you can fly around the inside of your board. just zoom in until you are between two layers then turn and start driving the space highway. I will to have to check out the new version.j

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 08:47:00 pm
content: I thought so too, but when I made the board simply very thick, deeper layers turned to be very fuzzy.The fuzziness is implemented because it helps visualizing deepness in PCB volume.So I need to correct for this.It will be implemented under mouse wheel, as third option.(simplest way to see this is by Stackup / DsplayEdit, select layer:BoardOutline, set new thickens,press [Set Equal Spacing])

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2012, 09:28:46 pm
content: That's not what i mean ! i want to set a distance from layer to layer . for each hop there needs to be a distance. boards ar enot always made with uniform distances. i wan tot give top to inner 1 5 mils ,inner 1 to inner 2 : 30 mils , innrer 2 to bottom : 7 mils.If i now want to an exploded view all these distances need to scale proportionally. ..

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2012, 07:28:51 am
content: The proportionality coefficient could be varying from 1 to e.g. 20, setable by the mouse wheel.Clicking mouse wheel will select one of 3 modes of layer separation:1-peel2-single layer3-spread (proportionally)Also, the "fuzziness coefficient" have to be adapted in this new 3rd case. If not - see the picture.

author: andersendr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2012, 09:48:11 pm
content: @Free_E, Yes each layer thickness can be set. When you click the compose button, then load in your layers, each one has a "thickness" value associated with it. Have a look at the screen cap below.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2012, 11:01:00 pm
content: http://youtu.be/3VZUVkK4ZNc?hd=1

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2012, 11:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: zofz on September 05, 2012, 11:01:00 pmThe program is looking good. I've been using the following recently but its an online viewer;http://mayhewlabs.com/3dpcbWould you be able to set a solid board rather than a transparent board?. The solid board allows you to inspect your silk screen easily.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2012, 10:04:29 pm
content: There are still things to be done to close this release, but I have a preview:http://youtu.be/wY0nheNj8oQ

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2012, 05:14:33 pm
content: it's looking good. I've loaded some massive boards (half a meter by 1/3 ) , 8 electrical layers. works without a hitch.you still havent got the 3d mouse correct : it's close , only 2 functions need swapping. you use push forward/pull backward to zoom. that should be pull up , push downi'll send you a PM wth details

author: Chyn2000
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 24, 2012, 01:49:44 am
content: Wow. This is looking really useful.If I might make few suggestions:1. When loading new Gerber files, please do not reset the color scheme.2. Put your preset colors into a config file like you did with the Gerber extension import mapping. That way users can create their own custom color schemes.3. On a normal mouse, can you map the zoom function to the scroll wheel? This is very standard in 3D tools. If there is some debate about preferences, you might think about letting the user map functions to the keys and buttons that work best for them.I must say that this program is very cool as is. Thanks for the effort and sharing your tool with us.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2012, 07:41:33 am
content: About 3D-Mouse (free_electron):I have been looking in the 3D mouse profiles - it is adjustable there.It seems that I have to keep the axis arrangement in the program, and create/modify the profile.(otherwise the description will not match)I will try to add a ZofzPCB-default-profile to the 3dmouse profiles during the gerber viewer instalation.Now, of course, it is possible to adjust axes by hand.Thank you for your effort and help!

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2012, 11:54:03 am
content: Chyn2000, thank you, and all of you, for positive feedback!I absolutely agree, color schemes need save/restore.Layer colors e.t.c. will be done shortly.I will wait with a particular net colors settings, until I have implemented pick&place/soldermask -> real netlist "management".I also agree that the first "gesture" you try to do to zoom is the mouse wheel.I do not want to disappoint anybody in this moment, OK.Now when I have a PCB volume (in next version) - I need to be able to change the transparency quick.Peel layers, especially after obscuring the PCB volume, also need o be done quick.What is then intuitive and quick?I like the mouse wheel: ctrl-Wheel=volume transparency, shift-Wheel=peel layers, alt-Wheel=spread layers, Lclick-Whell=zoom.and simple-Wheel will be adjustable, defaulting to zoom.Menu to change this will help to recall what is what.I need also a new option for every layer: -Invisible, -solid, -sparse, (now all is sparse).This could be in right-click menu, for topmost layer, plus additional layer list with radio-buttons.Does it fit together, or I am again drifting away?

author: Chyn2000
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 25, 2012, 06:27:13 am
content: I do not think you are going to disappoint anybody. This is your program and you are making it the best you can and the way that feels right for you. We (the users) can give you suggestions all day, but you have to decide how much time and effort you are going to devote.You can actually do a lot with the scroll wheel by having different modes. You could right click and select "Navigation mode" or "Layer mode". You could even use hot keys like you did with the F5-F8 keys for the layer peeling options. Or even have a "Scroll while pressing L" to have the scroll wheel affect the layer peel.Another option you could do to control layer access is to put a layer control window on the right side of the screen. This is common for many Gerber viewers. Layer 1 On/Off check box. Maybe even better would be to make a slide bar that controls the transparency level of the layer. You could even go so far as to make all of the options for displaying that layer available through this window (like the plated vias option or choosing if a layer is a "keep-out" layer like many solder mask layers are).Thanks again,Chyn

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 07:29:51 pm
content: very nifty program and quite helpfulYou might check out mayhew lab's 3d gerber viewer. It is good for a one-shot quick look at boards, maybe you can learn some small tricks from it.Could I add the following suggestions:1. Remove copper within drill cross-section2. Option to view negative copper layers without the very cool, but sometimes distracting fadeout effect.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 07:45:37 pm
content: Odd, loaded another design and the holes are working now.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2012, 04:03:05 pm
content: The upcoming version, have this feature.I have placed more detailed description of work in progress on the bottom ofwww.zofzpcb.com/BugList.htmlpage.This also includes download link to the current snapshot.Ctrl-Wheel does the volume density and finally the hollow to solid change.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2012, 10:00:52 pm
content: Oh.. Wow... At the first I was going to write about asking " why wuold anyone want to see 3D gerbers.. " but after the video, I think I can see the light..

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 12:26:19 am
content: Quote from: JoannaK on October 15, 2012, 10:00:52 pmbecause we design boards in 3D now... it's only logical to be able to see gerber in 3D and see how loops are formed.this 3d viewer is great for things like embedded transofrmers etc .

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 12:28:25 am
content: you know what would be really cool : being able to export as step (AP214) or google sketchup file .... that would open incredible psossibilities...

author: richcj10
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 12:31:44 am
content: http://www.gerber-viewer.com/Works quiet well. I use it all the time. Especially when working with 4+ layer boards.I sometimes make a mistake in CAM. This validates the whole board in one easy step!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 10:09:21 am
content: Quote from: zofz on September 19, 2012, 10:04:29 pmkudos for your effort and mastery. thats what a DirectX is for (cool 3d rotation animation etc), but unfortunately not what a pcb viewer for more or less imho infact counterfeiting its purpose, most of Mike's comment are pretty valid and you should investigate it more seriously to implement in your App. few comments for constructive:1) gradient at ground pour is confusing (refer to pic).2) i prefer a quick way to zoom in and out. its ok that you used mouse middle scroll for stripping layer out, but where's the zoom in and out? i have region that occasionally went out of view range while rotating due to your "automatic" resize function?few usefull function (mostly Mike already mentioned it)1) selecting a net with highlighted colors. if possible at all layers (maybe you can check connectivity through via's etc).2) moving or deleting object or mask or letter and re-save in gerber. (the diptrace i used has the habit of making wrong mask positioning during conversion to gerber from pcb layout editor)3) be able to selectively strip out any layer(s) we dont want instead of from top to bottom mouse scroll stripping.for simple pcb (like below), i still prefer the diptrace 3d render (still lack of hiding the mask) and keep flipping to trace something. your viewer can be confusing albeit super fancy coloring and animation. this is not discouragement but since you are already at it, i wish you can make some "usefull" and "functional" modification, hey! you can sell this stuff if done properly. its not common to see people can implement DirectX to its usefull potential, some people i saw using DirectX to draw simple line which can be done easily with GDI, but the drawback as its already prevail.. you have to do everything from scratch, even a simple Windows box, let alone trying to reuse standard GUI.YMMV.

author: zofz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 03:12:34 pm
content: Mechatrommer, It looks like the drill file is not loaded in the above view.Try to add it by hand - let me know if there are any problems to read the excellon file.Then colors will be the same for the same net. Highlight also works for whole nets. (mouse-hoover and 'N')If your files was loaded by "auto", tell me the file name extension of the drill file, (to be placed in CAM_Load_Rules.txt)Thanks everybody! - I really appreciate you comments!see work in progresshttp://www.zofzpcb.com/BugList.html#bottomcolors:is a scrambled topmost/left drill relative position of the net. (I try to keep the same net colors for different versions of the same board).I have to think about staying away from background color, etc.

author: NewBeginner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 03:58:08 pm
content: Is zoom in/out working (using a standard mouse)?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 04:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: zofz on October 16, 2012, 03:12:34 pmtried loading the drill file (attached below). also attached is the error box. drill file is generated by diptrace.(edit: got it! i pressed the wrong button)RS-274 format generated by geda gerber viewer dont show the gradient copper pour, its nice solid pour, so not sure why gerber from diptrace showing the gradient and why is the reason different rendering method for different gerber format.and i think mouse scroll wheel is upside down. when i scroll by pushing up, it logically should strip the top layer up, but no, i have to scroll down to strip up, kinda dont like it. may i suggest by pressing middle button (not implemented i suspect since it did nothing) while at the same time scrolling, the App will zoom in or out?edit: it got better and better! with highlight capability. kudos!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2012, 04:43:07 pm
content: in order for highlight to work the drill file needs to beloaded.as for the shading on the polygons : this depends on ow your cad program exports a polygon. ZofZ can handle complex polygons and shades them. if your cad program does NOt use the polygon feature but exports this as a bunch of overlapping lines then it will be drawn as solid.Depends on how the feature is implemented in the CAd software.it would be nice to be avble totell : shading on edges off : show polygons as solid.

author: Mattylad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2012, 10:16:52 pm
content: WOW!This is cool- I feel like I am on drugs looking at the demo board.Keep it up - its the future.This is similar to something in CR8000 that I have seen on the tube, I will be showing this to my colleagues as it's certainly looking good.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2012, 10:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 26, 2012, 02:31:52 pmOh space navigator yeas, thought that myself when I started reading the thread.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2012, 08:46:55 am
content: Quote from: Bambur on August 05, 2011, 11:04:14 amWhat is it with that website, it keeps going to another page after a certain delay, I don't like it !

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2012, 02:58:10 pm
content: Quote from: zofz on October 16, 2012, 03:12:34 pmJust remembered this thread when looking to sanity-check my first ever set of gerbers (eek) -- downloaded ZofzPCB and it looks pretty neat -- thanks!I did notice one oddity -- the first drill hit in my Excellon file doesn't seem to show up. It's a via, and I just see the pads in the copper layers at that location but no through hole. All the other holes show up fine; I used the P key to find the centre of the pad -- (843.0,765.0) -- and checked the drill file, which starts:Code:%M48M72T01C0.0197[... other drills omitted for brevity - ed. ]%T01X8430Y7650X8680Y9400X12180Y9650[... and so on and so forth]... so to my inexpert eye it looks like it should be there. I used EAGLE to generate the files with default settings, and I had to manually add the drill file (extension .drd) and untick the 'millimetres' option in the file format popup, if that's of any help. I can also send you the full file set if needed.Thanks for a nice tool though; hope this observation is constructive!