Packaging of Rigol scope in factory - plastic bag/screen protection / fan-noise - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 01:10:16 pm
content: Hello,I wanted to check here with quick survey how new scopes from Rigol are packaged in the factory, to double check that new unit, is really new.At the same time I want to take the opportunity to collect data about the fan noise. Maybe you can also indicate your date of purchase, to link fan noise with production date.DS1052E: Does the scope come in a plastic bag? Is the screen protected with a "first-time remove" screen protection sticker? Does the fan make a lot of noise? Production date?DS2072A: Does the scope come in a plastic bag? Is the screen protected with a "first-time remove" screen protection sticker? Does the fan make a lot of noise? Production date?DS1074Z: Does the scope come in a plastic bag? Is the screen protected with a "first-time remove" screen protection sticker? Does the fan make a lot of noise? Production date?MSO2072A: Does the scope come in a plastic bag? Is the screen protected with a "first-time remove" screen protection sticker? Does the fan make a lot of noise? Production date?MSO1074Z: Does the scope come in a plastic bag? Is the screen protected with a "first-time remove" screen protection sticker? Does the fan make a lot of noise? Production date?Can you give feedback on your specific unit?Thanks,

author: mscreations
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 04:41:27 pm
content: For the MSO2072A, it was wrapped in plastic between two styrofoam blocks. There wasn't any screen protector. The fan noise is mild but not annoying to me. My computer is louder. The production date was in June or July. I can't remember off the top of my head. I ordered it on 8-6-2014 from TEquipment.

author: WesleyK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 05:26:51 pm
content: Same here for the MSO2072, wrapped in plastic between styrofoam blocks. That was all. It was packed well enough for me though.Fan noise is.. Noticeable, but for me, not annoying enough to replace the whole fan. Already did some research for a new fan, but it seems that reputable brands like EBM Papst and Sunon do not have fans that fit and have the same airflow or higher while producing less noise.

author: bistopepmol
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 11:02:18 am
content: Hi there,DS2072A came in plastic bag but was pre opened and no plastic screen protector, warranty sticker looks a bit suspect but then it was over £ 100 cheaper and direct from Hong kong and on ebay sold as new, no issues and does what it should, although i dont think the warranty sticker will hold up to being removed without breaking..date purchased 18th sept 2014HW ver 1.0.2.0.2 FW ver 00.03.00.01.03

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 10:22:14 pm
content: Siglent protects its scopes with a transparent screen protector sticker, and they manage to deliver their scopes with fans that produce almost no noiseWhy can't Rigol adopt the same? How difficult can it be to leave the screen protector sticker on the LCD screen?How difficult is it to source fans that are less noisy? Are none of the Rigol engineers using their own scopes for hobby projects at home? Or are all the Rigol engineers hard hearing?Some distributors (without naming names 'hypen uk dot co..") provide the so called "quality inspection" service, where they open the box, test the unit, and provide a CD with the latest firmware and UK mains lead for the Rigol scope.Honestly I don't see any value in it, apart from confusing the customer questioning if he really got a new unit or not.1) Firmware updates everybody can do themselves2) Spare UK mains lead has every self-respecting engineer lying around in his home3) With the extra safety inspection the distributor questions the QA processes from his own supplier (what about trustworthy relationship between distributor and supplier?)Just leave the carton box closed! Your extra service provides no value whatsoever.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 12:45:26 am
content: The DS1074Z had no screen protection sticker, there was no damage on the screen so it appears to be fine how it is packaged. I am sure if they had a lot of returns they would add the shipping protection.The fan is louder then some basic scopes that I have used however it is not a problem in a lab where I often have music (or theamphour) playing in the background. Also I have not measured the sound levels but some of the "expensive" scopes at work seem louder then the Rigol one I have at home.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 12:50:50 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 25, 2014, 10:22:14 pmTheyhave todo that.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 05:26:17 am
content: No one is going to make your first perfect scope.We all were scope virgins at one time and we just decided to go for it eventually, waiting for the perfect one is not going to happen so take the dive once and for all.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 06:28:34 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 25, 2014, 10:22:14 pmWell your are not the distributor who's reputation might be at risk from a faulty product, damaged product, missing acessories, wrong mains lead and complementary setting of DSO to the correct language. I now even check the probes as a result of comments by memberrf-loop.I have also had stock on hand when firmware updates have been released and bought the firmware up to date when I did the boot up check. The power boot times counter is never more than 2 when new product is shipped from me.I NEVER remove the LCD screen protector film on a new unit.Lets say I wish to include a Business card, a Product guide and/or any other small items the buyer also may have bought/requested.So thats what you might expect from a distributor/dealer that WILL stand by their products.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 07:49:10 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 25, 2014, 10:22:14 pmMore fun is that Siglent oscilloscopes and signal generators (all what I have seen)have real glass front of TFT. I do not know why this glass have "screen protector" sticker - perhaps for fingerprints..

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 08:27:35 am
content: AFAIK UK law is that all electrical goods sold in the UK shall be supplied with a UK standard plugtop attached to the mains cable, or with an adaptor that is non removable already installed on the power cord. Thus your cellphone chargers actually do not comply with the law.Same in South Africa, except the SABS recently harmonised and now you can get a SABS approved outlet that conforms to the Swiss standard but which allows a cellphone charger to plug in with no problem. They are very nice, as I could put all the DECT repeaters power supply units neatly into a socket outlet pair, and not have a mess of cabling and adaptors hanging off the wall. Though they are rated for 16A I personally would not trust them at over 5A, I have had way too many socket outlets fail with 12-15A loads. That means I now hard wire all airconditioners with a dedicated cable, a switched isolator next to the unit and a separate breaker in the distribution board. Now only the odd isolator fails after a few years because it is rarely used, or the copper cable creeps and comes loose.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 10:14:26 am
content: Don't forget they all have trial features (2000 minutes) which are all counting down with every second it's switched on...

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pm
content: The UK mains plug is actually a joke. It's so big, and weighs a ton.Compare the UK mains plug with a Micro USB adapter, and then you can see where innovation has taken placeIt was designed for safety, but would say it's the opposite. The plug is so big, that you can only plug it in half in the socket, while touching one of the leads with your finger. Very safe! Yes... well done designQuite ironic. Usually in the US they like everything big, take SUVs, giant T-bone steaks. But when it comes up to power plugs, they are one of the smallest. Put the US plug next to the UK plug, and we are talking worlds of differences =)

author: bigsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 02:21:24 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pmTry putting 13 amps through a micro usb plug - but have a fire extinguished ready!QuoteI am not sure what you are on about.The UK plug has shrouded live and neutral pins that make accidental contact difficult or impossible. Minimum sizes for sockets and adaptors are specified in the standard so that a plug cannot be inserted upside down, etc.QuoteAmerican three pin plugs are not that much smaller than UK ones - and we have to include a fuse as well. And American sockets are not shuttered.The UK 13A plug is not perfect, but it is certainly no worse than any other style, and arguably much safer. What other countries use fused plugs to protect appliances and cables against overloads?

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 02:27:46 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pmSince 1984 they have had shrouded live and neutral pins, and the UK has amongst the lowest rate of electrocution in the world. That points to the UK plug socket combination beingsignificantlybetter than others. OK they are a pain when you step on them in bare feet, and bulky* for travel, but the whole plug design with a fuse, shuttered sockets actuated by the earth pin and the concept of a ring main to save copper is IMHO wonderful engineering considering it as been around for nearlyseventyyears, BS1362 being first issued in 1947.*BS1362 compliant plugs with folding pins are available, making them more compact than all the alternatives except bare wire and a couple of matchsticks.I despair when I see what plugs Europe, Australia and the USA use!

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 02:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pmThis has got to be the dummest comparison ever. A small DC connector designed to carry about 5W vs an AC connector designed to carry up to 3KVA. If you can't understand the differences between these, its no wonder you can't pick a scope!Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pmGo look how a UK plus works some time. The longer earth pin is used to open a shroud covering the live and neutral pins in the socket so you can't poke things into a live socket. The live & neutral pins don't connect until the plug is shoved in so far that you'd really have to be trying to touch a live connection with the plug only part way in.My experience of non uk plugs is generally shitty connections with connectors that practically unplug themselves just due to the weight of the plug & cable. Explain to me how that can be safer ?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 02:59:11 pm
content: I was only comparing the size. Of course the cables are designed for completely different purposes, but my point was that the original USB plug was also very big, and that they have improved over time. There are good examples of main plugs which are safe and have a much smaller form factor. In fact the European one is the best, and adopted by all European countries.But who cares? In the UK they always want to do things different.Their own clumsy mains plug, driving at the other side of the road, pounds, inches, Vauxhal instead of Opel. What is wrong with the name Opel BTW? =)No wonder that Scotland wanted to get loose of you guys

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 03:02:01 pm
content: Not plain shuttered sockets but some manufacturers (MK) have main sockets that are almostimpossibleto defeat, they need the earth pin partly insertedandsimultaneous entry of the live and neutral pins.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 04:15:20 pm
content: Remember the UK invented most of those measurements..... It took the French to make their own and make it base 10 just to be different, and typically French. Vauxhall was a British manufacturer along with Adam Opel, so they marketed vehicles from Opel AG in the UK as Vauxhall was the distributor originally.As to the plugs they are big yes, but for anybody over 50 you can insert them into a wall outlet with poor eyesight and arthritis without pain and much fumbling. Micro USB is a pain as it tends to destroy the sockets and tear them off the boards so easily. Try to plug a micro USB plug in using welding gloves, to emulate the experience of any person with arthritis or those who are disabled. Then complain about it, you at least have the luck to be able to remove the gloves.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 04:17:00 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 02:59:11 pmIn what way is a grounded euro plug any smaller than a UK plug?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 10:05:25 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on October 26, 2014, 04:17:00 pmThey're LOADS smaller. Maybe half the size.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 10:24:53 pm
content: For those who are not convinced about the size, look at the attached picture =)

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 10:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on October 26, 2014, 07:49:10 amThis is also true of the Rigol scopes... at least on the DS1052E. How do I know? It invovled a soldering iron. The screen survived with no marks. If it were plastic, it would have melted. That was an accident, but it's nice that Rigol have built that into the unit.Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 10:24:53 pmAh, but the UK plug is so safely designed. It's the *best* plug in the world in my opinion...

author: Creep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 10:52:16 pm
content: I pretty much never say this about anybody, but to me it seams like pascal_sweden is here just to tamper with people's nervers. I've never seen anybody so dissatisfied about everything, more often than not without any reason whatsoever. And it seems I'm not the only one with this observation.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2014, 12:06:20 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2014, 10:46:11 pmI agree ... plus they mandated that every socket has to have an on/off switch. Genius!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2014, 12:10:06 am
content: Quote from: Creep on October 26, 2014, 10:52:16 pmIf this isn't an elaborate troll then I seriously hope he never has to buy anything expensive. Like a house ... or even a car.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2014, 12:22:53 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 02:59:11 pmNo, it isnotadopted by all countries, and the various semi-compatible variants lead to the possibility of dangerous misconnections, which immediately disqualifies it from being the 'best'.QuoteWhich we invented and widely deployed before most other countries had standardised on one plug, let alone the EU.QuoteWhich we were doing before you, and places the typical dominant hand on the steering wheel, where it belongs.QuoteShock, horror, we use our own currency, let the world (which is bigger than the EU, FYI, just like it's bigger than the US) know immediately.QuoteErrr.. nope, sorry, we don't actually use inches any more.QuoteVauxhall are five years older than Opel, what gives Opel's brand priority?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2014, 05:23:50 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 10:24:53 pmI swear this is the kind of shit you get on 4chan /b/Troll harder pascal_sweden - go back to 4chan and find something better.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2014, 05:42:06 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 10:24:53 pmOh, yeah, they're totally to scale.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 10:32:33 am
content: On topic:My DS1052E came in a plastic bag secured by a foam frame packed in two cardboard boxes. I don't recall if there was a protective film over the LCD.Offtopic:I don't see the point in discussing cultural differences that have been established over many years (i.e. which side of the road etc.) Some things are simply hard too unify (right/left traffic) and some things are refused to unify (currency). Many of the standardization bodies are very young compared to what's going on in Europe (the continent) and the CEE 7/4 SHUKO plug is simply what the majority of the countries have come to agree upon. This plug is now practically compatible with the French.Some in this thread say "Europlug", note that it is something else entirely for low power appliances that do not require protective earth.As to if the SHUKO is more safe or better than the UK's BS 1363 be aware of that wiring (and its colours) has been different in countries and whenever standards are being introduced they are always combined with long grace periods (read: nobody cares until that deadline runs out, and then they rant because changing all of the wiring does cost money they don't want to spend). So as far as I understand, most of the "unsafe" conditions discussed are simply caused by assessing a plug in an environment it wasn't intended to be used in. Why is it important that the plug cannot be plugged "the wrong way" in? Is it a plug problem or an appliance design problem? Simply replacing a plug with the other standard and point out that it is now unsafe to use is really not the way you should present things.I'm quite fascinated by the BS 1363 plug but I do not agree with most of the presented evidence why this one should be better or worse than the ECC. My ECC plug does not fall out of its socket all the time and I guess neither of them wins a beauty contest. It's also not the plug's fault for being put into an incompatible socket, and I doubt that any of those electrocutions that were mentioned have anything to do with a BS 1363 plug or socket.QuoteMay I point out that other plugs in other countries have also been invented by their respective inventors and were deployed before most other countries have standardised their plugs. These things predate the EU in any case so why do you put it like this?QuoteThe Napoleon in me disagrees!QuoteMaybe some day when we all have the same currency and citizenship, we can focus on discussions without those pesky differences.Quotenitpick: you will always be a part of Europe

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 07:45:47 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 26, 2014, 01:47:10 pmI guess by now you probably know already what a moronic statement that was.QuoteYes, it's indeed a very good design. The connector is polarized, the socket has a safety lock that makes earth contact before GND and Live are connected, the sockets have a switch and the plugs come with a fuse. There's not much way to make it any safer.I hate the European style connectors. There are several incompatible variants, some of them non-polarized (i.e. the German Schuko standard) which comes with its own set of issues. Brits do have some weird things but their mains plug is certainly the safest one out there. Realy well designed.QuoteYeah, what a difference, but not in a good sense. The only advantage of the US plug is that it is probably the cheapest to make . It's neither safe nor really solid (I often had wall warts pulling the plug out of the socket).There are many great things in the US (and god knows I love that country), but their pathetic 110V mains system and their poor power grid really isn't amongst them.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 09:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on October 28, 2014, 07:45:47 pmWhy is this relevant? Why is this supposedly "safer" than non-polarised plugs?QuoteThe CEE is a standard supposed to be used in all of the European countries, which it actually does in the majority of them. There are a few exceptions but they are mainly due to grace periods or because some countries flat out refuse to adhere to standards. There also aren'tseveralincompatible standards, if you look it up, you can see that the CEE plug is by far the most common one with one completely compatible (the 'French' style) and the Danish and Italian being the real exception. The Danes can use both their own style and the SHUKO but since they don't _have_ to use the SHUKO they don't. I would also like to point out that the Danish plug is very similar to the UK one. So the only really different plugs are in Italy, Denmark and the UK (leaving Switzerland out of the debate, sorry).I think you made it pretty clear that you dislike (hate) all other plugs but you list very few relevant reasons ("it is designed better"how?, "the safest"why?) just try not to let it carry you away because I would really like to know your reasoning behind it.QuoteWhy is it 'pathetic' and what makes it 'poor'?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 10:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on October 28, 2014, 09:18:31 pm110V is pathetic as you can't boil a kettle of water quickly from the mains. The only reason for 240VAC (or 230VAC now) in the UK is purely so we can get a bloody good cup of tea nice and quickly using the 13A plug and socket. 3kW is excellent. Americans have to make do with something like 1kW, so resort to boiling kettles on the stove instead.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2014, 11:52:20 pm
content: FYI we have 120V and 240V for heavy duty stuff. And my kettle works just fast enough even if my wife insists in filling it up instead of just heating the water we need.Also on the 240V that will be at 60 Hz, faster cycles should be more work or am I off on that?Although I rather use natural gas myself to boil water.

author: Creep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 12:06:12 am
content: The power dissipation has no correlation to freqency. And work (in this case dissipated heat) only depends on power and time. I don't see how having a bit higher freqency would make it heat faster (atleast as long as were not talking about the high freqency (MHz) range, in which case the laws of electromagnetism can sometimes have werid effects)...

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 12:08:56 am
content: I was just trolling as that seems to be the topic theme.There is a power oscillation but RMS only cares about the shape of the wave: sine, triangle or square waves

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 12:21:13 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on October 28, 2014, 11:52:20 pmOMG - Tell me about it! arrrggh!

author: Leiothrix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 02:06:14 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on October 28, 2014, 09:18:31 pmBecause some devices only have a SPST switch on the active instead of switching both leads.Which means you could have a potentially live circuit, even if it is switched off.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 04:01:44 pm
content: Guys, guys!All these side discussions are really fascinating. But we're getting way off the original topic ofplastic bags on Rigol oscilloscopes! Let's not lose sight of what's important here.Getting these questions answered and validated is critical to making purchasing decisions.

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 04:35:53 pm
content: Quote from: Leiothrix on October 29, 2014, 02:06:14 amI had cause to fit a UK mains plug to a brand new US made product costing about GBP 5000 in the early 1980's (not test gear). A five minute job I thought, cut off the plug and stripped back expecting to see IEC standard colours, but no, I saw a black wire, a white wire and a green wire. Unsure of the US colour code and with no reference books immediately to hand I removed the cover of the equipment and discovered that the single pole rear panel switch was in one leg but the fuse was in the other, from the way the wiring was loomed they must have thought it looked neater that way! Eventually concluded it was a switched live black wire and a fused neutral white, even more confusing when we had fixed and legacy flexible wiring in the UK with black neutrals(albeit with red as live) I modded the wiring with the switch and fuse in series in the live and cussed the designer / production line worker who screwed up.Then a few months later I came across another bit of kit same as this one, with a plug fitted by someone else, only this time black was wired to the neutral in the UK mains plug. Removed the cover and saw the same switch in one leg and fuse in another though, so not a one off fault. They ended up with a fused live and a switched neutral,possiblysafer that way through ignorance of the wiring colours!P.S. Going back to the original postingSeem to recall my Rigol 1052E was in a bag, sealed with tape, and with a sheet of protective plastic over the screen. The outer box was sealed from the factory. The fan is audible, and maybe a bit too loud if working in a quiet environment, can't be bothered to change it.

author: andrija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 06:53:22 pm
content: My 2072A and 832 were, I am pretty sure, in a plastic bag. Well packed with Styrofoam. I can't remember screen protector. The fan on 832 is ok. The fan on 2072A is UNACCEPTABLY loud. I don't know why engineers and network guys think it's acceptable to have extremely high noise levels in their equipment but the scope is genuinely disturbingly loud and distracting. I didn't pay gobs of money to silence my PCs, video cards etc. only to have this Rigol thing be louder than my airconditioner! I already bought a replacement fan and will get around to installing it eventually. And I'm really not exaggerating, this thing prevents you from being able to think.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2014, 07:55:30 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on October 28, 2014, 09:18:31 pmBecause (which has already been mentioned) some devices only have a SPST switch.QuoteI admit "several different standards" of plug was exaggerated, but still they're treated differently depending on the country. CEE 7-5 (French variant) is polarized (which is an advantage) but this doesn't mean you can rely on the position of Live and Return. It also gives the plug very little mechanical support, which in combination with the small pins means it's easy to unplug accidentially. The German Schuko (CEE 7-4) gives proper support to the plug, but it's unploarized, and it shares with the CEE 7-5 socket that its Earth contacts are located outside the connector housing which exposes them to damage. The Schuko Earth contacts can also get easily damaged by some connectors.QuoteThe Danish 107/2/D1 is closer to a CEE 7-5 than to the UK plug. And the Italian plug is basically the Earthed variant of the CEE 7-16 (Europlug).The UK BS1363 plug is larger but so are the pins, which gives the connector good and secure seating in the socket. The BS1363 sockets have no exposed parts. In addition, unlike the UK plug, CEE and the Danish and Italian standards have no connector fuse which means behind the power outlet the only circuit breaker is in the device (which means it's dependent that it actually *has* a fuse).This makes, in my opinion, the UK BS1363 standard to the best and safest mains plug.Quote"pathetic" refers to the low voltage which means that even devices with moderate power consumption require thicker wiring because of the resulting higher current. For many switch-mode PSUs it also means they run at lower efficiency than on 230V mains."Poor" refers to a power grid that has very little redundancy and is plagued by power outtages.