Issues with my new SM/4TP microscope  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Neshco
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 11:15:46 am
content: Hi everyone,yesterday I got my very first and new microscope boughthere.It is one of many copies, god know from who, but because people in general are satisfied with its performance regarding electronic repair I decided to own one for the same purpose.I have assembled it by instructions, everything was pretty much straight forward, but I was not able to adjust it properly.First, I adjusted the horizontal height between pupils, then each eye, one by one dioptry, all fine there and then tried to take a look on some board.I was not able to see clearly whole picture if I lay my eyes on the rubber (have two types rubber eyeguards, flat and sloped). But noticed that picture come clear and nice if I rise my eyes above the eyepieces circa 2,5-3cm. So, I taped sloped eyeguard over the flat one and got what I wanted. Actually, it is a bit too high, few millimeters, but if I push my eyeballs down on it, it is just fine.My eyepieces are WF10x/20 with the glasses sketched on the barrel.Now, I am not sure that this is how it need to be. I cannot hoover my head over it especially because easily loose one side or another by moving my head in some direction.Or maybe there is some eyeguards that are taller (I could not find anywhere some higher than 2cm) ?!Or maybe I need to change eyepieces for 10x/22 or some other type?!Need to say again, this temporary test setup with eyeguards one over another is doing good job, maybe few mils down would be better, but it definitely work.Same situations is with just default setup or barlow lens 0,5x attached, which I intend to use for this. No change.Is there someone with experience to clear this up for me? I am relly not able to keep my head all the time stand still and hoover over the eyepieces, need to at least touch rubbers with the eye skin and block the outside light.Sellers answer (Eleshop) was that it is not easy to use the microscope for the first time and get use to it and that is normal to hoover over it few centimeters?!Highly appreciated any advice to a total and complete noob.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 02:09:49 pm
content: Quote from: Neshco on November 24, 2023, 11:15:46 amThis sounds like long eye relief eyepieces, designed for eyeglass users, with the exit pupil (where you need to put the eye to see) deliberately pushed far above the optic itself.

author: Neshco
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2023, 03:00:20 pm
content: I am not at the subject absolutely, that is why I ask for help, and that someone who knows, can recognise the issue and tell me if the problem is in the scope head itself, eyepieces or myself.I have not problem to buy new eyepieces, preferably some "adjustable", but what if I buy wrong again?I have seen somewhere on yt that there are some adjustable eyepieces, where the part on which is rubber attached can be moved up or down few centimeters (only for 22mm version), but that movable part is hollow, not any lens inside it and that would be for sure way to go for me, but I could not find it for the 30mm verson anywhere. For 30mm found only dioptry adjustable (like on the photo) and there I am not sure if those would help because the lens goes up together with the eyecup and that is exactly what the adjustment ring on the scope does and it does not help me with this problem.To order and try one by one would take months since it usually come from China and ordering and waiting for each a month is really annoying.As from here I suspect wrong eyepieces and if there is someone who can confirm that and give me some recommendation for it, would be really awesome.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 08:41:49 am
content: If members jfiresto or CDN_Torsten don’t see your post shortly you could try PMing them; they along with a few others around here you might find by searching for “Amscope” and other key words in this Beginners forum and the Other Equipment & Products forum can probably point you in the right direction for a solution.

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 11:18:39 am
content: I don’t know that particular microscope, but it’s around double the cost of the one I use.Mine is a Swift S41-20 (Amazon, 200 GBP, approx 225 euros) and it works really well for SMD assembly work at x10 magnification. The x20 eyepieces might have a use for inspection, but I just use the x10. The smallest parts I use are 0603 size and I hand solder SMD boards.The eye relief is quite short, the rubber eye guards exclude extraneous light, as is their purpose.The two LED lights are better than a single one supplied with some instruments. I don’t know about ring lights, but I doubt that a ring light would be any better than two adjustable ones.Sorry it doesn’t really answer the question, but may help someone looking to buy a binocular microscope for SMD assembly work.SJ

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 11:56:52 am
content: Quote from: Neshco on November 24, 2023, 11:15:46 amWelcome to the club! I bought this same exact microscope fromhere. Here is how it looks.Basically everything is right, you can't just stick your forehead into microscope and use it, your head has to be in the air to see things properly. Unless, you do a small modification! Here, 3D print these spacers.https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4995024Also, print auxilary light adapterhttps://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5124819and get these lights for it (new black pure white without cables)https://aliexpress.ru/item/4000297370828.htmlAnyway, with these spacers you can stick your head into microscope and work properly.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 05:16:18 pm
content: Having your eyes 25~30mm above the eyepieces is a bit high. I have perhaps a silly question. Have you made the microscope parfocal?Put the eyepieces/eyepiece tubes at their neutral (midway) diopter position. Zoom all the way in, and raise and lower the head with the main focus until both eyes are in focus. Don't move the head up or down. Zoom all the way out and now adjust the eyepiece diopters until both eyes are in focus. Zoom in all the way (again, don't move the head up or down) and see if both eyes are still in focus. You may have to repeat this procedure and iterate to reach true if the microscope started far from parfocal.How is the view when the microscope is parfocal?

author: Neshco
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 10:59:04 pm
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on November 25, 2023, 11:18:39 amAs I am new in this, I am really not into the knowing what is normal but I am pretty sure that 2,5-3cm above the eyepieces is a bit too much if they deliver eyepieces cca 1cm high. I mean, why?Meanwhile I did some research and found that there actualy are some of the eye cups that are that high, but one would expect that those come wih the microscope that require that tall cups and it does not. I dont know, will see when they arrive.Quote from: u666sa on November 25, 2023, 11:56:52 amThank you for this nice tips.It looks like that this version is just manufactured like that. If I knew that, I would buy some other head, but, it is what it is.If all fail, I will for sure print those spacers. Thanks for sharing.I really hope that there is someone who determined for sure if this are like that, factory design fault or maybe there is something what we can do, like replacing eyepieces, or whatever.Quote from: jfiresto on November 25, 2023, 05:16:18 pmI did that procedure and it vent just fine. Now I can zoom in and out without focusing. All work fine, but the distance problem is the same.Actually, except distance form the lens, I cannot say that there is anything wrong about this device. I mean, it is my first microscope and I dont have anything for the reference, to compare this device with, but, picture is clear and bright, no visible distortion or something, everything look decent and more than enough for the electronic repairs, level of zoom, clarity... Just the distance form the eyepieces that are abnormal. If it is designed like this, ok, I can live with that, but I am really suspicious about that if they deliver short eyecups with it, but if there is a some mistake, maybe the problem is easily solvable with another pair of eyepieces or something trivial like that.Meanwhile, I ordered this eyecups, just for case that maybe they are comfortable and precisely fit this distance, and if they are, I will just ignore this problem:1.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001774814406.html2.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09PG4RZHQ3.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005032098705.html4.https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/yuenzmall-2-pcs-rubber-eye-shield-33mm-eye-guards-cups-eyepiece-covers-for-microscope-n1652hjmdhv2333zort/Hope some of those will help. If it does, I will post here my impressions about it.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 01:15:36 am
content: I'm not familiar with stereo microscopes, but in simple biological microscopes eye relief is determined solely by eyepiece construction (as long as everything is assembled correctly). And you have to pay extra for that eyeglass symbol, it doesn't come as standard on entry level models.I know that stereo scopes have more complex optics (which I don't know the details of), but it would surprise me if any adjustment outside the eyepiece could change it significantly. In biological scopes you just get a different eyepiece if you want different distance.Generally, higher magnification eyepieces have shorter eye relief, but also the obvious side effect of higher magnification and smaller field of view.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 04:35:22 am
content: Eye piece specification markings. The first number is the magnification. Second number is the field of view in mm. The eye glasses symbol says its for a stereo microscope as a pair of eye pieces and not for a monocular microscope.I assume that you also adjusted the stereo head to fit the eye separation. Turn them inward or outward to get a single round field of view. The rubber protectors should rest on your orbital bone and not in the eye socket. I just rest the brow on the rubber protector. It's up to the person using the microscopic and what is most comfortable.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 05:04:13 am
content: Quote from: Jwillis on November 26, 2023, 04:35:22 am+1 OP should definitely make sure to do this ^

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 08:26:46 am
content: Quote from: magic on November 26, 2023, 01:15:36 amThe binocular microscopes intended for surface mount device assembly/inspection are constructed in the same way as binoculars used for distance viewing. They have two objectives, two sets of prisms and two eyepieces.Unlike microscopes used at high magnification, the distance between the objectives and the component being viewed is quite large, typically around 50 mm or more. This is fortunate as it avoids flux fumes, and splattered flux, contaminating the objective lens.SJ

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 08:36:20 am
content: The question is if there is anything inside that can change the apparent distance of the objective's exit pupil as seen at the eyepiece socketIf not then there is nothing you can adjust. The exit pupil of the eyepiece is simply a real image of the exit pupil of the objective, projected by the eyepiece. Position determined by eyepiece optics and (apparent) position of the objective...

author: Neshco
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 12:57:54 pm
content: Quote from: Jwillis on November 26, 2023, 04:35:22 amAs far as I am aware, those microscopes are always delivered with 10x/20 or 10x/22 with the eyeglasses imprinted on it. I have searched for the "regular" ones to ask/try/investigate if that can help and there is almost no such a eyepieces. Looks like trend is to be replaced with those with the eyeglasses on it. But from this moment, I highly doubt that even if I find similar to mine without glasses would help.I have almost same distance toward the lenses from my orbital bone and eye socket, no more than 10mm but doubt, probably is less than that. And the difference is still too big.I would really appreciate if someone who have tried that eyepieces without glasses on it can confirm if that work or not.

author: Neshco
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 01:02:08 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on November 26, 2023, 05:04:13 amI already wrote that I performed parfocal adjustment which include this step. Ive got that adjustment even first time setting up the device, and I was aware that need to match both circles. Wrong settings there can give the eye strain problem but cannot help with the distance between eye pupil and the eyepieces. But thanks for suggestion.

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2023, 07:56:01 pm
content: Nothing wrong with your microscope! This is normalEye rubbery thingies won't help you. Get spacers, it's a $2 print job. You will find plenty of ad for 3D printing on your local free ads website, whichever one you have in your country