Datasheet and manuals: paper or tablet? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Moriambar
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 03:06:58 pm
content: Hello.I currently am debating whether to continue using my paper datasheet (which I have to print - and I have no printer now) and sometimes to bind, or to switch to some electronic device/tablet, although I cannot choose which one right now (except no ipad 'cause it costs too much for this).I usually tend to prefer paper, but in my new home I don't have much space on my bench, actually not even for a computer (when I have to use mine I just take a chair and put it beside the bench). That's why I thought that perhaps having manuals on a device could be profitable.So I was wondering if you have any experience in that. The pros I see for paper is that I can easily write on it and index it and browse it through. The cons are that it's less environment friendly, it has more cost and it wastes a fuckton of space.The pros of a tablet are, in my view, the solutions to the cons of paper, while its cons are that it's a bit harder on the eyes, it costs (I don't own one) and "paper never runs out of power".What is your opinion?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 03:29:08 pm
content: I don't see paper as a practical option for whole datasheets - the things are HUGE. They are also packed with information, some or most of you won't ever need. Maybe print out a select few pages and that's it.I'm fine just reading them on my PC, since that's my typical use case, but to each his own. If you are having problems with tablets, maybe try an ebook reader like kindle. Far clunkier user interface than a tablet, but much better on the eyes.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 03:35:53 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on May 18, 2021, 03:29:08 pmI would like to buy a Kindle, but the screens are too small

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 04:14:41 pm
content: Quote from: Moriambar on May 18, 2021, 03:06:58 pmAs example, one of the latest datasheet I have worked is almost 3000 pages, not sure how it can help browse through and/or catalog a paper copyUsually, I'm using paper snapshots to stay way from computer & monitor, just reading and make some remarks.Before COVID, a tablet exclusively for a travel.If you have a space issue, why not laptop/notebook?Much more flexiable, you can use as a computer (calc, soft etc) and not vendor lock as a tablet.Also, you can buy an external monitor later.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 05:13:46 pm
content: Same as this pretty much. Print only the page or pages I currently need and keep the pdf files stored on the NAS.Quote from: daqq on May 18, 2021, 03:29:08 pm

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 07:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on May 18, 2021, 05:13:46 pmI will pile on. I print out the sheet(s) I'm going to need (pinouts, voltages, specs, etc.) and stick it in the project box with the components for that project. No way I am going to print out more than a few sheets for each project since I am paying for my time, paper, printer toner, and storage space. Once the sheets are used I will either file them with my other docs or drop them into the "scratch paper" pile. They will then get a second life of having notes written on them on the blank back side. They get put in the recycle bin after they are no longer of use. Reduce, re-use, recycle.

author: whalphen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2021, 07:12:07 pm
content: Several times I investigated the options for this. Unfortunately, I was not able to find an affordable, practical solution for viewing pdf documents on a tablet. It's just too clunky to always be zooming, resizing, sliding, flipping pages. And many documents are formatted with two or three columns, making it even more clunky on a tablet. I ended up hanging a flatscreen monitor and a small fanless PC on the wall at the back of the workbench. It's on my home network so I can view and store documents while at my home office desk where I do much of the design and drawing and also access them from the workbench. It's also tied in to some of my test equipment so I can capture screen shots. Works well. The keyboard and mouse take up some benchspace. But, often I can put the keyboard aside and work with only the mouse. It's great to have the datasheet on a screen right above the bench where I'm working. And I can see the whole page and navigate to other pages easily. If I have to dig up more information from the internet or my project files, I can do that, too, without leaving the workbench. If I need a part, I can use my (free) PartsBox electronic inventory account to see which storage bin to go to. If I don't have the part, I can immediately search Digi-Key or Mouser and add it to my shopping cart before I forget. I also connected a USB microscope so I can closely examine parts and PCBs using the same screen.If taking measurements or notes, I use a paper notebook. That's much easier than trying to type while holding a probe. Then the notebook goes on the shelf so I can always refer back to the original notes.

author: Moriambar
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 08:59:04 pm
content: Thanks for your replies.To those who suggest laptop… I have one but I like to keep it as far as I can from the bench.Also I have literally no space on the bench, it's very cramped…Seems "print what you need and forget the rest" is kinda the way to go.Thanks!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 12:53:11 am
content: Ah, I've just solved exactly this issue. Possibly.My use of datasheets typically starts on the PC viewing the entire thing, then has specific pages printed out so I can refer to them without cluttering up the screen. The printouts are easier to mark, and have several pages viewable at once. But I end up with quite a lot of printouts for the bin, and if projects get put on hold then I can sometimes have duplicate (or more) copies of the same pages. Naturally, I only find the previous copies after printing the new ones.The solution, I am hoping, is an e-ink tablet. Specifically the Boox Note Air:https://www.boox.com/noteair/If you're used to things like the Kindle, Nook or simillar, this will blow your socks off. Sure, it's e-ink and therefore not a speed demon on display refresh, but it ain't slow either. You can write at normal speeds and see the stuff appear just like it's paper - there is no discernible delay to put you off your stride. Page turns are pretty damn fast, and you can choose refresh speed vs quality to fine tune things.However, for the question of datasheets, this is an A5 screen and easily big enough for most datasheets to display comfortably. In viewer mode (as opposed to note-taking mode) you can apply highlights, comments, etc. Either have it floating around on your desk like a (thick) sheet of paper or propped up like a second monitor (real paper can't do that).There are other, similar, e-ink tablets. Boox even do an A4 one, although that's twice as expensive. However, what marks this one out is that under the bonnet it runs Android, so if you don't like the built-in viewer you can load up any of the pdf viewers on the Play store. Similarly, I ignore the built-in sync-to-China feature and loaded up Nextcloud to sync with my NAS directly.Away from datasheets I am trying to get into the habit of using it for notes. Previously I've used a mix of paper and various PC apps, from Onenote to myBase, but they all have some downside. The paper one would be good if it didn't involve printing charts to stick in it, and then worrying that my only copy is a coffee mug away from being borked. The Boox allows me to do real writing, past in images (albeit they need syncing over first) and then making marks on them in a way I can't on the PC. I can even move writing to make room for a bit more if necessary, so the procrastination caused by being unsure where to start (will I need more space? Waste too much space?) is circumvented. Periodically I sync to the PC and the magic of Nextcloud means my master copy is on the NAS and I have up-to-date copies on the PC and phone.The main downside is it's monochrome. There are shades of grey which work very well, but writing with them is off-putting a bit. And they're grey. You can use colour (well, the primaries) but you only see them as colour after syncing to the PC, or phone, and viewing there.Honest, I am not getting a kickback off 'emIf this kind of wets your fancy, and very good Tube channel to check out is:https://www.youtube.com/c/MyDeepGuideThe chap does in-depth reviews and usage guides for pretty much all tablets of this type, and ain't afraid to compare them.

author: Moriambar
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 06:05:06 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 21, 2021, 12:53:11 amwow this is what I was searching for. Although a bit pricey especially for the A4 version which I was shooting for. But I'll see what my budget will be.Thanks a lot!

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 07:02:30 am
content: I just have an LCD monitor with a Raspberry PI literally bolted to the back of it.Short HDMI and USB cables from the PI to the monitor, then plug the keyboard/mouse into the side of the monitor.A touch screen monitor would be even better, but as if I ever find something like that.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 07:16:01 am
content: One of the big advantages in datasheets in some electronic format is that they are searchable. And usually also have an index to quickly jump to (sub) chapters.I find E-ink / unusable for datasheets.First the processors are too slow, and combined with the slow update rate of the screen it makes searching through a datasheet a nuisance.Datasheets are usually also in .PDF format (letter?) and they do not scale well to small screens. Especially when they have multiple columns with text intermixed with pictures, my E-book (Pocketbook Lux -something) can not reflow them properly.My current setup for reading (and searching through) datasheets is my PC. I have a dual monitor setup (second hand HP-LP2465 monitors) and have one in portrait, and the other in landscape. With such a monitor you can view a wole page without scrolling and without glasses easily from a meter distance, so it's easy to peek while soldering etc.I find a monitor in portrait mode perfect for anything with text. From viewing web pages, datasheets and writing software (I can have about 120 lines readable without scrolling). The other monitor in landscape mode is good for video, Pulseview / Sigrok, graphical applications such as FreeCAD & KiCad.I do have some interest in a tablet for reading datasheets, but it would have to be pretty big (preferably 12" or bigger) and a resolution of 1920 x 1280 or more, and those cost more then I'm willing to spend on them. The reason I only find that size / resolution acceptable is because a whole A4 sized page must be readable without scrolling or re-formatting.

author: Moriambar
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 07:23:32 am
content: Hi all,I'm just answering generally.I use my pc for work around 12 hours per day and my eyesight is not what it used to be. I feel the strain when I use my pc extensivley also for my electronics hobby, that's why I try and constrain myself on weekends for projects (laying out boards, using the arduino) and searches/buying components.Usually in the lab I mainly use datasheet and some notes. Ofc when I have to use the arduino sometimes I have to use the pc too, but (as I told) I try and limit this to weekends.Personally I feel that the pdf searchability is awesome but having two or three pages, possibily for different components, laying side by side is something that I could never do with electronics display (e-ink or lcd).I also don't mind the sluggishness of e-ink since I'm not in a hurry: work=hurry, hobby=relax.That's why I'm thinking of the e-ink megatablet

author: amishasingh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 11:16:19 am
content: I personally use kindle, but as an electronics engineer I never use the kindle for data sheets. Although I gave gave trail in the beginning for this but my eyes were strained. Better to go on the large screen or as an enthusiastic paper print for data sheets is really a good option as I feel

author: AndrewNorman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 11:39:46 am
content: I personally have an old iPad that sits on the side of my bench permanently plugged in (it was retired due to speed and dying battery life). I have a DropBox account that has all my various datasheets sorted like I want them.The combination of those two allows me to access the sheets as I need. It gives me a touch screen interface without taking up a huge amount of space.

author: amishasingh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 11:40:55 am
content: Interesting...

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 12:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 21, 2021, 12:53:11 amWhy not a Apple iPad Air? It's ~ in the same price rangeIs it of the different technology of the LCD?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 12:39:14 pm
content: And why not theRemarkable2?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 12:44:43 pm
content: QuoteYou should get hold of a modern e-ink tablet to try! I've attached a video to demonstrate the update rate (I think - had to trim several minutes and compress like crazy to fit the upload limits, and I ain't no tuber so it's very rough). There is flickering when large black areas are cleared, but check out the dual-page scrolling at the end - it is easily fast enough, and that's typical of full-page turns.Searching is pretty damn fast as well. I had to cut that bit to allow the video to upload though.[Edit: can't upload video. Zipped it's still too big. I'll try and sort something out...]QuoteThe content tends to be A5 or so, given the huge margins that were in favour. And this ain't no small screen. You can see that the ESP32 tech ref in the video is easily readable, even when split into two (so each side is A6).A second monitor is good, particularly since you already have your hands on the mouse and keyboard for navigation. But it can't go flat on the desk or be carried to the bench or make notes out in the sunny garden. Horses for courses, and my intention is to not switch to a single device or mode but to use whatever is appropriate for the moment. As I noted, the Boox allows me to do notes in a paper way yet access those notes on the PC or phone (or print them out). Similarly, I would shove a schematic onto the Boox to use as reference when on the bench (the PC screen is tiny there), the datasheets for the parts similarly. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't also open them on the PC when checking stuff there.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 12:51:28 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on May 21, 2021, 12:31:33 pmTwo things:1. The display is LCD or oLED. e-ink is paper-like and much nicer to look at. In daylight e-ink is easily readable, but since it is essentially black marks on a surface (as opposed to a light source) it's pretty useless in the dark. The Boox has a, er, frontlight to combat that, and I find it useful to leave that on permanently (at a low level) which makes viewing under any light source a non-issue.2. E-ink doesn't need power if there is no change. So you can, say, have a schematic displayed and then let the thing turn itself off, and the schematic will still be displayed. So battery life should be vastly better than continuous viewing on LCD/oLED. In practice the default mode is for a screensaver to be displayed when the device turns off (for privacy reasons) but you can override that.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2021, 01:00:40 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on May 21, 2021, 12:39:14 pmPrimarily because the Boox runs Android and the Remarkable doesn't. Thus you can load up your favourite phone apps - the processor is easily fast enough and the screen issue (ignoring lack of colour) tends to be that it's too big for many Android apps! If you don't like the built-in viewer just download a better one off Play. Similarly, you can shove on dropbox, Nextcloud, FolderSynce, whatever choice of getting stuff on and off floats your boat.Next, it's a glass screen, so less prone to poking stuff through it accidentally. I now use a screen protector, but that's for making the writing feel more like paper. I think the screen would be fine without any protection at all, and it's a matt finish so doesn't glare too much.However, it's swings and roundabouts. The Youtube channel I mentioned earlier was invaluable in giving me the relevant info in order to make a decision, and I would recommend viewing the relevant videos for the kit you're interested in before spending the money.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 03:24:57 am
content: Whole sheets digitalI print off pages to scribble on or make notes or doodle or whatever as I work.If my scribbles are intelligent or may one day be useful I'll scan them and save them with the datasheet.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 05:50:28 am
content: What is wrong with viewing datasheets on a computer monitor?I keep a computer near by and just leave the datasheet open full screen. If you want a better PDF viewing experience from more of a distance you can also turn a display 90 degrees into portrait so it fits a A4 aspect ratio closer. I don't just use it to look at PDFs, but i also google pinouts of stuff or keep the PCB CAD open to quickly check where a trace on a PCB goes. The monitor also does not clutter the bench since its off to the side.The ONE case where i found printed documentation really useful however is when repairing test equipment. I still won't print out the whole service manual because that is a whole lot of paper, but once i have narrowed the problem down i will often print out the schematics and diagrams for the one board that i am suspecting is faulty. I like having the paper right next to what i am probing. I can also write on that paper to mark down my measurements (right onto the schematic for easy reference where it was measured) or mark off components i tested to be fine. This helps me stare at the schematic and ponder what would cause the fault that i am seeing.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 01:21:45 pm
content: QuoteThat's a use case for the large e-ink tablets.Plus, you don't need to go back to the PC for the datasheet or print out the relevant page - your entire searchable collection is there on the paper facsimile. Of course, a downside of this (over actual paper) is that you only have one screen whereas you could have many sheets spread around the place. But it does mean you would have the same printout multiple times because the one you were looking for is hidden under all the others...

author: aandrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 06:16:10 pm
content: I normally hate reading on an LCD/OLED, but I could not find an e-paper reader which could render large PDFs, particularly those which are pretty much hundreds or thousands of TIFF images, quickly. To that end, I actually ended up buying an iPad for this purpose. The various android tablets I tried weren't much better.I have to say, with a decent PDF viewer like PDF Expert or Documents (both by Readdle) - it's been a very good purchase. I use it for a few other things too, but it's primary use for me is a datasheet reader.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:15:00 pm
content: This is a pretty good demo of the Air next to an iPad:I don't think he mentions it but you can affect speed a bit by electing to use a quicker refresh at the expense of quality (that is, ghosting of previous pages): fast and dirty, slow and clean, so-so and so-so, effectively.I also not he has the iPad plugged in but not the Air. How long would the battery be expected to last on the iPad?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:23:05 pm
content: Ah! Wish I'd stumbled across this channel sooner. He does a pretty good job of comparing actual paper, e-ink and the iPad.Pretty much what this topic was asking, I think.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:27:04 pm
content: Modern electronics requires modern approach. Unless you are using prehistoric components, you will run out of paper and ink printing datasheets of modern devices. Use your computer as datasheet reading device as we all do

author: aandrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:36:50 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 24, 2021, 08:15:00 pmIf all I'm doing is using it to search/read/skip around a large PDF (STM32F7 reference manual), I can get a good 4 hours out of it, although I have to say that's not normally how I would be using it. I usually have the documentation open, skip around, get what I need, skip around some more, get what I need... it's never multiple hours at a time. If I were to try to do that I think it'd definitely be close to dead after 4 hours. One thing the iPad's not known for is stellar battery life, primarily because of that screen.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 08:53:40 pm
content: OK, ta.The Boox you'd imagine would have a very long battery life (like a Kindle or similar) since it doesn't need to stay awake to keep the screen going, but if you use it always-on you notice it runs down rather quicker. I haven't actually run it flat yet, but I think we're talking days rather than weeks (or hours).