ALLPCB = PCBWAY??? yet another shell. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 12:30:57 pm
content: As many know, allpcb in the past was offering PCBs from several different fabs. And then they supposedly became independent manufacturer and offered only their own service. I never ordered from them but today I ordered stencil because of the huge shipping discount promotion. What's the catch you think? I downloaded an invoice from their website and it's the same company as pcbway.So apparently it is as follows:allpcbpcbway3pcbpcbgogoanything JDBpcb / HK WEIKU TECHNOLOGY

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 01:07:27 pm
content: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7db74q/free_shipping_saves_your_money_free_expedite/dpwjtad/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=MechanicalKeyboards

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 01:23:19 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 25, 2017, 01:07:27 pmNo, we are not the same, just receive our money to the same bank account.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 02:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 25, 2017, 01:23:19 pmIt could be just an intermediate company that deals with international money transfers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 03:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on November 25, 2017, 02:20:54 pmHK WEIKU TECHNOLOGY in not intermediate money transfer company, it's PCBway itself. IMO if it was independent company from the beginning, then it got bought by PCBway. Anyway, I sent a PM to Anson asking to comment about this.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 04:18:10 pm
content: Could well be after PCBWay got a bad reputation because of the spamming. Reputation is everything in this cutthroat market. However, allpcb.com is an older domain than pcbway.com by over a year. Doesn't prove anything, of course.I have done an ALLPCB order this week and there is up to $20 coupon available if you post a link recommending ALLPCB.com on some high traffic website and they can verify it is there. So at least the motivation for spam is there:QuoteI hope it will not go the same way and if they are, indeed, PCBWay, they have learned their lesson. With their current shipping prices for the basic prototype boards they are by far the cheapest and fastest, it would be stupid to ruin that.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 04:25:45 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 25, 2017, 03:58:05 pmThen I don't get it. What's the point for them to have two different representations, which directly compete with each other? Unless it's some kind of holding company - but even than it doesn't make sense from marketing standpoint. It's easier to promote one brand as opposed to two. Something isn't right here...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 04:30:36 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on November 25, 2017, 04:25:45 pmEven without allpcb, they have at least 3 websites targeted towards western buyers and it's already confirmed. Adding 4th does not make so much difference. Reason, you try somewhere else but still buy from them. Actually in city where I live, we have one internet provider hiding under 5 companies. Same cable, same people. Choose whichever you want.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 05:36:59 pm
content: They like to pivot a lot. AllPcb was a cheap and dirty offshoot from PcbWay targeted for internal market, but then they changed it to being fast and western-oriented.I think it is just a scheme to kick start a new business - you share everything at first, and then go your own merry way. So this split does not look complete yet.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 05:39:36 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on November 25, 2017, 04:25:45 pmSame reason why a lot of Chinese eBay sellers is actually the same seller - if one account screws up (with customer, or government officials), it can be safely closed and your shop will continue to operate under the remaining names. And then you just another one and give everyone a discount, so people learn about your new face.I also makes it easier to experiment with service/prices when you have many faces like this.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 07:46:08 pm
content: They are two different organisations, two different fabs. A lot of sharing and the two owners are good friends. Had this independently checked and visits made.Yes, they still use the same bank account, which is weird, I know.Both are providing good service, relaibly and low cost.. What is to worry about?

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 08:18:02 pm
content: This has been raised and answered countless times on this forum.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 03:29:03 am
content: Why should I care about this? I'm really trying to understand what difference it makes. It's not like they are colluding to keep the prices high. If anything they've never been this low.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 10:18:49 am
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on November 26, 2017, 03:29:03 amQuiet simple. Say, you are not completely satisfied with the service or want to find some alternative source just in case you'll need it. Which you can use if quality of the first service drops or you need an urgent order made from 2 different places because you won't have a time to fix if something goes wrong. If you are fooled by 2 faces of the same, you won't have an alternative. And if you were not satisfied with the service, you'll pay them yet again and likely will face the same issues after some time. From my experience I can say that pcbway is far from perfect, although very fast. So I still occasionally use it if need things done fast.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 06:31:43 pm
content: So you are saying that because they are the same company, I shouldn't use them at all? Still not sure what you think I should do differently.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 06:33:07 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on November 26, 2017, 06:31:43 pmNo, you need to keep them in mind when considering backup strategies. You may be under the impression that you have many backup options, while you really have none.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 06:44:23 pm
content: Well, I'm pretty sure that OSHPark isn't part of the PCB triad so there is at least one option for the little guy.So far though, the various *PCB* companies seem to be clamoring for my business so the theoretical dark clouds have not yet obscured the sun. Anything can happen but I'm not going to be losing any sleep over it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 07:16:49 pm
content: Quote from: phil from seattle on November 26, 2017, 06:44:23 pmOSH park is not a replacement fur such services as PCBway. You can expect better quality, but no choice for resist color, not suitable if you need more than a few small PCBs. Slow, if you are outside of US, even worse. Very limited special options, even slotted holes in pads are not officially supported. What is important is having true alternatives. It's disappointing if you spent time and money trying different service just to find out you was deceived to order from the same place multiple times.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 07:21:33 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 26, 2017, 07:16:49 pmSo, you would be fine if you had PCBway and Allpcb, because they are seperate companys with seperate fabs ( which are about 2500km apart ), with differnet owners?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 07:29:00 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on November 26, 2017, 07:21:33 pmYes

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 08:06:33 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 26, 2017, 07:29:00 pmSo we can put this whole thread to bed now, since you know that they are seperate? Yes, they have some shared history, people who were invovled with PCBWAY are now with ALLPCB, and they have a common payment method.Its been done to death.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 04:27:45 am
content: Allpcb is definately different to pcb way.On one of my orders a while back, I exceeded their specifications for minimum clearance and they could not build the boards, so refunded my money. I then got those boards same boards made by pcbway, though, next time I will try ourpcb as their pricing was better than the adjusted pcbway pricing.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 12:33:34 pm
content: Maybe different but just yesterday one of their staffers spammed pretty much every single electronics related reddit promoting their shipping discountDifferent but same at the same time

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 01:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 02, 2017, 12:33:34 pmWell, I guess like any business, they do need to promote themselves in order to keep their income coming in. If they don't get enough turnover, one would have to guess that the free shipping will be off the table.At least they don't charge extra and then hold you ransom for a good review. How many newbies have you seen on here and everywhere else stating how wonderful their pcb's are, just so they can get a "free" $$ coupon? Heck, 2/3 of the pcb's could have been crap and they still would have given a positive review just for the "free" $$.Did the staff member go on pretending to be an end user, or were they open about being staff? Staff pretending to be an end user is a bit of a low act.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2017, 07:23:59 pm
content: Quote from: SMdude on December 02, 2017, 01:17:11 pmPromotion is one thing, spamming of forums another. You don't need to resort to spam to promote your product/service. Why not to buy ads, for example? Of course, spam doesn't cost anything ...Quote from: SMdude on December 02, 2017, 01:17:11 pmThey left the company contact/e-mail. But regardless of that, it is spam and against the rules there.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 02:38:07 am
content: A bit of update on this topic. Last Saturday I got a call from pcbgogo at around 8:30 am while I was still sleeping after going to sleep very very late. Person asked why I write some shitty posts about them on eevblog. I was certainly not fully awake and not prepared for the talk, especially in foreign language. But what I certainly remember person certainly said they havetwo factories. I did not ask where they are located but person repeatedly told they have two factories. Asked about PCBway, IIRC person said PCBgogo is Shenzhen office and PCBway is HK office. I forgot to ask about allpcb but after taking about 2 factories, I again have my doubts about how separated allpcb and the rest are.Edit: my phone says that phone number is from Zhuhai, Guandong.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 02:43:09 am
content: Chinese companies are really bad at PR. Why do they think it matter how many factories they have? Sound like they have some issues in that department.PS: mine is bigger and thicker

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 03:03:01 am
content: Also person several times repeated they give coupons for reviews until I said something like "I have enough money to not give a fuck" (more politely).

author: xaxaxa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 04:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on December 02, 2017, 07:23:59 pmI will disagree with this one and say I'd rather use a vendor that uses low-cost advertisement techniques as opposed to buying ads. why? because in the end *I* end up paying their ad bills, and let's just say I'd rather not contribute any money to the advertisement industry.Simply promoting your product on a forum doesn't count as spam in my books, provided you aren't pretending to be an end user. When I see that a company buys ads, it makes me not want to use their services because I know my money is going towards advertisement rather than the product itself.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:24:58 pm
content: Quote from: xaxaxa on January 07, 2018, 04:23:41 pmWhich just so exactly happens to be the thing they are so famous for - they are actually paying people with discounts to post glowing reviews, the more high-profile the forum/website the better. I.e. you don't get (a lot of) coupons/points if you post on your personal blog, places like EEVBlog count for much more - you are supposed to post a link to your "review" and after it is checked you get your discount. Which can be significant - e.g. getting free shipping.If that isn't encouraging spam, I don't know what is. Then I have seen outright spam from sock-puppet accounts on Reddit too.So basically your presumed "non-contribution of money to the advertisement industry" helps with spoiling the experience for everyone. When you see a third, fourth, tens, twentieth "review" of PCBWay's boards, the shilling gets really annoying, turning a public forum into an advertising dump. And if you think your boards are going to be cheaper because the vendor spams instead of doing the marketing in more accepted ways - you are being incredibly naive ...Oh and by the way, PCBWay also buys significant amounts of "normal" ads through those advertisement networks too:https://www.adbeat.com/free/advertiser/pcbway.com/pcbway.comThat pretty much throws your entire argument out of the window.P.S.: Ads on a website can be also bought directly, there is no need to go through advertisement industry middlemen for that.

author: noras
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 03:59:37 am
content: It has been a long time since I've seen pcbway posts on eevblog, and so on. In fact, promotion are the same, every manufacturer just came out there will be a variety of ways to appear in front of everyone, so famous Apple is also a variety of advertising, spam.Sometimes I miss anson