How to identify knockoff devices -  specifically Fluke 1 ac - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Scott in Michigan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 07:30:01 pm
content: Gentlemen,Mainly based on things I learned reading this board, I have been upgrading my AC power test equipment to reflect appropriate CAT levels. Since I also originally set up my sons' tool bags, I feel obligated to insure I replace any sub standard test equipment I bought for them over the years. I already replaced bargain voltmeters with Fluke devices, and likewise appropriately rated hand tools are now in their tool bags.Non contact voltage detectors are next on the list. Reviews have pointed me toward the Fluke 1 AC.Is it a mistake to purchase based on price on the online auction sites? How does one know they are not buying knock off devices?Regards,ScottNM8R

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 08:16:32 pm
content: My perspective...... where a device is capable of costing a life if it fails.....always buy it from an authorised dealer to avoid the risk of fakes or 'grade B' products.I will buy cheap kit where my life is not at risk and the tool is adequate for my needs, but the money saved by buying potentially sub standard safety related equipment is no use to me if I die as a resultAurora

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 08:27:07 pm
content: you probably should not use one of those in a manner where your safety depends on it, it is bad practice. Use it for finding something to aid in convenience but not for handling.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 08:43:50 pm
content: A VERY good point. I do not even own one of those proximity voltage detection sticks as I am 'old school' and use a tested and trustworthy multi-meter before touching anything that could still potentially be energised. Safety first at all times........one hand in pocketDo you remember those neon screwdrivers that glowed when the tip was touched on a 110V or 230V supply ? At maritime college we were told that such devices have no place in safety checks. I have never used one since in my 27 years in the industry.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 09:03:02 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 09, 2014, 08:43:50 pmAnd why is this? I have more trust in a contact checker with a neon light than any non-contact device. What can happen? You should always check against a point you know has live AC, but that is the same with non-contact devices?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 09:34:28 pm
content: Quote from: WVL_KsZeN on August 09, 2014, 09:03:02 pmTheir exact trigger voltage is undefined. They start to glow at "some" voltage. Maybe too early when they shouldn't, maybe to late. E.g. depending on how good you are isolated they might not glow at all when they should.Checking against a known "hot" wire does not guarantee they glow at the location where you actually want to measure. It just shows the thing could glow.Lighting conditions affect if you recognize a glow or not.Their construction is often so that the maximum limit of current of 0.5 mA through your body can't be guaranteed under all conditions. And they won't withstand CAT tests.Non-contact voltage checkers are also not really safe, but for other reasons. Some electrical codes prohibit the usage of those testers, too.This is how real voltage testers looks likehttp://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=31&prodid=117http://en-us.fluke.com/products/electrical-testers/fluke-t-plus-pro-electrical-tester.htmlhttps://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/profisafe-690b-l.htm

author: Scott in Michigan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2014, 10:58:42 pm
content: Just to be clear I'm not referring to the old neon style voltage testers.I am enquiring specifically about the Fluke 1AC, and its literature indicates a CAT IV 1000 V rating.But more specifically I'm still looking for some guidance regarding vetting parts from online auction sites.If it's pertinent, I am using another manufacturer's non-contact tester as part of a multi-step process to check wiring in an old house for polarity reversals. I also use in Extech CT70 circuit load tester. I just don't know if I can totally trust the Extech yet.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2014, 10:48:38 am
content: Fakes and Clones are designed to look like the original. Vetting via an auction picture would be very difficult as you can never be sure that the seller has not used a genuine product in the pictures. Fluke will likely give you advice on identifying Fake versions of their equipment as most similar companies have collected intelligence on the fake products and are happy to share it with customers. Labelling is a classic area where the clones or Fakes fall down. Font, letter spacing and duplicated serial numbers are just three such failures in many Fakes.Fluke will likely also tell you to buy from a reputable retailer who is FLUKE authorised.......not bad advice. You have to always ask yourself....if a seller is selling a FLUKE product cheaply, how did he/she get it at a price that permitted such discounted sale without annoying FLUKE and losing their official supply chain ?....common reasons are: End of line product, Bankrupt stock, Overstock, Stolen shipments, Fake product and Used/Demo stock. If the price differential between FLUKE retailer and ebay seller is small, buy from the Official FLUKE source, if not, ask yourself how the ebay seller can afford to discount so heavilyAurora

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2014, 12:01:49 pm
content: I haven't (and other members on this forum seem to agree) seen a truly fake Fluke - onlyobvious lookalikes with names like FUKE.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2014, 12:12:13 pm
content: Well, this thing is really starting to look like a Fluke 789http://www.ebay.com/itm/Process-Meter-loop-calibrator-compared-w-FLUKE-F787-TR-/380345797245?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item588e604a7d

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2014, 12:54:06 pm
content: If I were looking for one of these FLUKE devices I would buy the model seen here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fluke-LVD2-Volt-Light-Genuine-NOT-copy-/360728712705?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item53fd1b5601It is from a trustworthy supplier (PASS UK), from whom I have bought thermal camera equipment so no worries about dodgy kit

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2014, 01:05:50 pm
content: Then again, maybe not the LVD2 ! See here from Mike:And of course Dave reviewed this technology:

author: Scott in Michigan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2014, 12:00:44 am
content: Thanks, Aurora, for your concise and well formed advice.I greatly appreciate it.ScottNM8R

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:06:23 pm
content: Just buy it from your local electronic distributor. I can't remember if my non contact checker is a Fluke, but now that I have it, I won't go without. I'm not buying the "unsafe" argument. I'll check the sensitivity with a variac tonight, but I find the non contact checker to be much faster and safer than probing around for hot leads with probes. It also has a low voltage range for 24V if I recall correctly.