Tinnitus - does this "breakthrough treatment" sound like BS? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 10:29:22 am
content: I saw this item on TV being promoted as a breakthrough in tinitus treatment.It's like a diffuser lens you wear behind your ear. The fractal light created helps reorganise the water in your inner ear blah blah blah.I'm not sure how this sort of hocus pocus can be marketed (in Australia).It was $140 for a pair of self adhesive lenses.https://www.antinitus.com/how-antinitus-works/

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:06:03 am
content: It sounds like complete bullshit to me.Their "clinical studies" ..."All subjects received an active Antinitus treatment."no control, no blind, let alone double-blind. That pretty much says to me 'yeah we know this is a load of shit, but clinical studies are necessary for marketing'.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:13:43 am
content: "The effect may vary, according to clinical studies more than 50% experience relief"I suspect that the only relief they will experience will be that they were relieved of their hard earned money.I suffer tremendously with this affliction, the continuous high pitched pulsating squeal in addition to industrial deafness can at times be a challenge to cope with, I generally notice it more of an evening when the back ground noises are at a lower level.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:20:38 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on September 01, 2017, 11:13:43 amMy mother suffered terribly with tinnitus before losing her hearing almost completely (viral infection) but she did get some relief from it with a tiny white noise generator that 'pre-loaded' the ear with some low level noise, apparently the ear can 'up the gain' when there's only low ambient noise levels so you kind of 'bias' it with the white noise and it stops or greatly reduces the tinnitus.

author: rt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:33:45 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 01, 2017, 11:06:03 amIndeed. Can they prove it is better than placebo?I see they have a New Zealand distributor. Surely they are risking the same kind of legal action the Power Balance hologram wristbands faced in Australia?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balancert

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 11:39:59 am
content: I was relieved to read in their blurb that it's one of very few CE marked tinitus treatment devices.........These false hope pedlars are real bottom feeders.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 12:33:26 pm
content: Bullshit. Most people's tinnitus is subjective, meaning that it is not even there. There is no sound, no physical moving stuff, which produces the noise. IMHO the only way to treat this, is to reduce the noise. Not just the very loud noise, all noise. Some people are annoyed by constant noise sources as high as 40dB. That is the amount of noise in a library.I think our awesome 20 and 21 century resulted so much noise pollution, that this is the main reason people are going deaf or having tinnitus. In the office, the noise levels are usually above 60dB, which is just simply too much. The buildings have improper insulation, cars are too loud, people are inconsiderate, music at festivals, in pubs, everywhere is just too loud. Go once in a while to a forest. That's how loud our daily life should be.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 01:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 01, 2017, 12:33:26 pmWell, this response also contains a ton of BS.My GF has pretty bad tinnitus. She needs noise around to mask her tinnitus, otherwise it makes her insane.How much noise people with tinnitus can handle really depends.Tinnitus is NOT equal to being overly sensitive to noise.Some people have tinnitus AND being overly sensitive, which is a very horrible combination.Hearing damage can also mean anything. For example some people have dips (in frequency response), others are overly sensitive etcSecond, it is absolute BS that noise pollution WILL give you tinnitus.Noise pollution can only raise up stress levels (in some cases), but if the levels are low enough, you won't get any hearing damage.60dB(A?) is not close enough at all to give you any kind of damage!In fact, 60dB(A) is speech level. So you're saying that people should shut their mouths?Obviously that is very different with headphones and live concerts, which can be harmful.Depending how often, for how long and/or how loud. (important is the combination)But what's missing here, is that tinnitus definitely not always caused by noise or something.My GF got it after using a certain type of medicine.I know people who came out of a coma or had some (heavy) brain damage who ended up with tinnitus.There are a billion papers and books about this, I would suggest diving into a few.The biggest problem with tinnitus is that it can't be fixed because it is OR in the brain, or because the hair cells (or other parts) are being permanently damaged.Btw, I wouldn't call this product a treatment.It doesn't treat anything. It simply works by masking the tinnitus.Which is not a solution for people with tinnitus and are being overly sensitive to sound/noise.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:07:57 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 01, 2017, 12:33:26 pmTinnitus is real to the person who has it and is caused by a physiological anomaly in the ear and/auditory nerves. People commonly get tinnitus due to a virus, exposure to a deafeningly loud sound or a head injury.QuoteI have mild tinnitus myself and can assure you that less noise is not a valid treatment for me, because I only notice it, when it's quiet. Fortunately my hearing is fairly good, but I know that many people with tinnitus also have some degree of hearing loss.QuoteYou have a point about loud noises, causing hearing damage and tinnitus, but 60dB is within safe limits. I think there should be legal limits on sound levels at music festivals, pubs and clubs. Some people would accuse me of being a kill joy but I don't care.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:12:59 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on September 01, 2017, 01:40:39 pmI agree with all you've said except I'm not sure that this product even masks tinnitus. I think from a technical perspective it probably does absolutely nothing. Some folk may get a placebo / psychological benefit I guess.Either way tinnitus sucks.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:15:43 pm
content: Yes, I believe that most of the time, a person should be in a quiet environment, without anyone speaking around them, without noise. At least for the duration of the night, but also during the day. This is for the subjective tinnitus.You know this is one of those cases, where you consume a small amount of poison every day, you don't go immediately sick, but after a while, symptoms start to show. And it is not necessarily a physical damage, its the brain saying: that's enough.I have Peltor X5A. It does wonders. -37dB. I started wearing it (sometimes for hours in a day) and my tinnitus disappeared completely. So yes, I think it is noise, which is causing it.The physical tinnitus is a different story, then there is actual damage or something in the ear causing the noise, and should be treated differently of course. Not with magic stickers.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: DTJ on September 01, 2017, 02:12:59 pmSorry, my bad, I didn't look much further than the linked page.Yes it is just a sticker, so it works for placebo reasons.Which can be enough in some cases.Tinnitus really stinks. I know it from my GF.She can't enjoy silence anymore for example.Quote from: NANDBlog on September 01, 2017, 02:15:43 pmWith all the respect, but this is completely subjective and feel thing.As far as the evolution/history goes back animals, apes and thus people have been surrounded by noise and making noise.I don't know if you have ever seen howler monkeys, or certain types of crickets/cicadas.They are very far from being quiet.One thing though.In some cases tinnitus can be linked to stress or tiredness.And stress/tiredness can (sometimes) be linked to constant noise.So yes, in some cases a (light) form of tinnitus can be solved by removing these things.It's not very common (but annoying/tiring if you're sensitive to it, I know exactly what you mean)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 02:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on September 01, 2017, 02:21:50 pmThe entire tinnitus is "subjective and feel thing". Its in the brain. But at least we can agree on something. Honestly, I dont know how common it is. There isnt concrete research with tinnitus, and there are a lot of factors which can cause this. The fact, that it is not measurable, subjective does not help either.BTW EU recommends 40dB during nighttime and for example Germany has 55dB as a limit for office environments.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:11:13 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on September 01, 2017, 02:42:01 pmIt is not only in the brain. It CAN be in the brain, but you can also have physical damage (as I said before).Other issues can be a damage/problem in the brain, but that doesn't automatically it is subjective!!There is done a ton of research on tinnitus btw. Starting many many years ago.These recommendations are an average over the total period, which is called Leq.This means you can even peaks of 80-90dB for a bit, as long as the total amount (average) is 40dB(A).I actually have done quite some research about the subject of noise levels and regulations.These regulations were being made to ensure a decent living environment for people.It doesn't have anything to do with what is harmful.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:36:21 pm
content: "Subjective and feel thing" On resume ,Somatic , the magic word what the medics use when they are inability of finding the physical cause of the patalogy.I had a somatic which resulted being physic. Goodness, that my father didn't name me Napoleon, because if i would have showed on a medic consult with the right arm over the stomach.Maybe they would thought that i escaped of the Psychiatric unit

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:50:57 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on September 01, 2017, 03:11:13 pmMany regulation , but if you live near a forest. Sometimes the birds begin to sing at 2 am , plus the fetter , plus schizophrenic cats and the barking dogs. You have a good orchestra

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 03:52:26 pm
content: I think tinnitus is pretty real - mostly because I have it. I work (play) in a space at home that is quite noise free, that isn't the problem.The problem is simple: I was prescribed Aspirin as a blood thinner for my advancing age and heart condition. Google 'tinnitus aspirin'. So, I either put up with a bit of ringing (which, BTW, varies from day to day, situation to situation) or risk a heart attack.Today, it's ringing, yesterday, nothing. It goes like that - for me.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2017, 05:51:02 pm
content: Whilst I don't have tinnitus (thankfully) I do find it fascinating, because like many ailments, the patient senses/feels it often with no (detectable) physical changes. These include hallucinations, "auras", pain, essentially any form of sensory input.It must be quite frustrating because, without any real objective tests the cause - and therefore treatment - remains elusive. Also, it tends not to illicit sympathy since no-one else can know exactly what you are hearing/seeing/feeling, and there are no external signs. The 'interesting' part is because, our senses pick up far more than we are aware of, and there's a good chunk of brain matter dedicated to filtering things out, focusing on novel stimulus whilst ignoring constant or regular stimulus etc.. Much of what we see and hear is based on what our minds "expect" to sense, combined with what it actually senses to update its model of reality. You can test this yourself by staring at flooring with a regular pattern, After a minute or two, the pattern in your peripheral vision will star to disappear.It has been suspected that with tinnitus, the mind either fails to filter out sounds that naturally occur in everyone's ears, or, fail to filter out stimulus caused by nerve/ear damage - hardware problems.Either way, it leads one to believe that constant, low-level broad band sound (yup, white noise) would allow the mind to try to filter that out, and the annoying tinnitus sounds along with it. I can see why it can be debilitating because one cannot escape it. But whoever mentioned that reducing external sounds helps I think has it backwards. We all prefer to have quiet as we sleep, but there is such a thing astooquiet.http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170526-inside-the-quietest-place-on-earthThe mind is constantly adjusting the "EQ" and "gain" of our ears, which is why those who claim they have consistent golden ears are either deluded, or brain damaged to the point where their minds cannot adjust their senses. As such, after about half an hour in an extremely quiet room, all the bodily sounds that are normally too quiet to hear, or ones the mind filters out, come into awareness. Also many seemingly random sounds are heard, which are believed to just be 'noise' from the mind as a result of sensory deprivation. Apparently its an unpleasant experience. The visual equivalent would be the swirls of colours one see's after keeping their eyes closed for a few minutes.As arrogant as it is to dismiss something so quickly.. the link the OP posted, is clearly based on bollocks. I do like to read about these things to see how they claim they work, the marketing, the demographics etc.. but in this case, I read the brief "explanation" and that's it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2017, 04:01:38 pm
content: Yesterday, the tinnitus was quite noticeable and, although it rarely happens, bilateral. Today it is hardly noticeable.It just seems to work like that. For me...

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2017, 12:01:52 am
content: +1 for BS. My father suffers from Tinnitus. The only thing I think I might ever believe in is something that works on a nerve level. I have many times in my life had ringing ears after rock concerts and such. I can't imagine having it all the time. I suppose its more of a psychological management problem than a physical one at this point. Just get yourself to the point where you either don't think about it anymore, or don't care.