Paypal abusing customers  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 02:57:16 pm
content: So i purchased a few things via paypal a while back, they were meant to take the money from my bank account withing 3 days, they did not. Why ?.Because what appears to be happening is that when it involves a currency conversion they are taking a window of ( in my case ) anything up to 14 days to put it through, this allows them to choose a conversion rate that is higher than at time of purchase at some point within those 14 days, Evil little sods arent they

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:24:11 pm
content: You have the worst luck ever mate!What I have done is logged on to PP and told it to take payment in native currency (GBP, USD, AUD etc) and I let my credit card (which is linked to PP) do the conversion, happens a lot quicker (instantly usually) and it is typically cheaper to let my bank do the conversion rather than PP.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:25:03 pm
content: At least their conversion rates are not as bad as with airlines. I've seen 5-10% easily.Luckily, you usually have a check box, switching to be payed with the original currency.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:32:19 pm
content: If it wasn't for ebay using paypal I wouldn't bother with it. I hate the fact that I can have £1000.00 in my account today, buy things on ebay and then when i check my bank account nothing has been taken for over 2 weeks or so and it messes with my head as to whether I can afford to buy the next thing in case I end up in the red.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:41:26 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 10, 2015, 03:32:19 pmYou see, once upon a time, everyone used checks to pay for things. It could take weeks for a check to be deposited and reflect on your banks statement. Responsible adults would do this thing called "Balancing our checkbooks" wherein we kept a running tab of our checking account balance (the checkbook ledger) and balanced this with our actual bank statement once a month.Today, checks aren't nearly as common for consumers, but the principle still applies. There's software (Quickbooks) and websites (Mint.com) specifically designed for this very thing.Thusly, PayPal aren't evil in this case. They are being smart and trying to make money, which is their job. If you overdraw your bank account, it's because you are lazy and can't properly plan ahead.Sincerely,Every Adult Ever

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:45:44 pm
content: No I have a debit card for INSTANT payment so I dont have to keep books or add yet another job to my day or week, my paypal is set up to take payments primarily from my debit card so it is instantly shown and actioned on my bank account, but they choose to take it from my bank account before my card which defeats the point of my debit card.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 10, 2015, 03:45:44 pmIf you tell them to use the card, they will use it.If you fail to tell them to, that is your problem.eBay and Paypal are doing nothing wrong.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:52:59 pm
content: Wow, you gave PayPal access to your bank account? Really?

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:55:02 pm
content: Ebay arent doing anything wrong,i never said they were, and paypal have been told to use my debit card before my bank account.Yep Paypal have access to my bank account, many years ago I had to set up a DD for them in order to have and use a paypal account.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 03:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 10, 2015, 03:55:02 pmIf you have a linked bank account you must make the selection at every purchase. It makes it very clear at the time of payment what the source wil be.eBay and Paypal are so tightly linked I often mix them up, I edited.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 04:10:57 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 10, 2015, 02:57:16 pmI thought that the amounts were fixed at the point of creating the paypal transactionAre you sure that you aren't mixing this up with "pay after delivery".Yes you do have to watch what payment option PayPal wants to use like a hawk when using it with a 3rd party.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 05:00:46 pm
content: Ebay added a shopping cart so you could buy from multiple vendors and do one paypal transaction. Except when I get my bank statement there will be a half dozen individual ACH transfers instead. I'm waiting for the day when I'll get an excessive ACH usage charge from the bank.

author: moya034
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 05:16:10 pm
content: Ever since I started a strict accounting regimen for my personal finance, I have not had a single overdraft. I don't care if the transaction posts immediately or 4 weeks from now.My preferred accounting software is:http://www.gnucash.org/

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 05:26:11 pm
content: My experience has been that Paypal screws you on currency exchange rates as a matter of course. I have used them several times to pay for fairly expensive vacation rentals in Canada and while the transaction occurs immediately, the exchange rate they use is about 5% worse than the market shows for the day the transaction takes place.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 05:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: timb on December 10, 2015, 03:41:26 pmThat's absurd, so your saying that in order to facilitate a multinationals effort to angleshoot an extra few % off us we should just give up one of the main advantages of online banking which is a real time update of your balance?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 05:53:45 pm
content: Quote from: moya034 on December 10, 2015, 05:16:10 pmLikewise. Payments can fall months from now and it's still built in to my budget. I use YNABhttp://www.youneedabudget.com. Takes me all of 5-10 minutes a week to keep track of everything.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:04:20 pm
content: I got tired of PayPal's shenanigans a long time ago.I let them send me a credit card once, and after that all purchases started defaulting to that card. Then, one time (my fault) I forgot to pay the bill. For some reason they can auto-pay my eBay charges but apparently cannot auto-pay their own credit card. I got hit with a $35 late charge, so I cancelled the card.After that I started getting notices every time I bought something saying I was getting close to my "sending limit" and demanding I link a credit card or bank account. Funny how I never got a notice like that before had the PayPal credit card.Anyway, I now just pay for all my ebay purchases directly with my American Express, and rarely even look at the PayPal account. I think there's been $8 or $9 in it for the last few years.

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:10:47 pm
content: Yea paypal is horrible I am having trouble with a payment. The store let me order and charge me then they told me that they didn't do the ship to store option so I asked for refund. So I paid it with my paypal and its still pending they said I have to fax them some papers for some odd reason. Will never use paypal again and I still have not received refund.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 10, 2015, 02:57:16 pmIsn't Paypal just doing what you wish they do? Think about your forum name. Seems to please you people need to screw you over or worse. So my vote goes that you got your wish.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:15:54 pm
content: Maybe I'm not getting something here.I've been using a PP debit card for years, and there's never any need to pay any balance (therefore no late charges), because it just debits from your PP account in real-time. Your card spending limit is how much money you have in your PP account.You use the PP debit card, and the amount is taken primarily from your PP balance, even if you have a bank account linked.QuoteeBay bought PP a long time ago but they're now separate companies again.QuoteThat's not PP's fault. The store has to initiate the refund. If the store does not initiate a refund, PP won't credit your account.Now, you can call PP and contest/dispute the charges of the store. Tell them you cancelled the order with the store but the store has not refunded your payment. PP will issue you a provisional refund while they investigate the claim.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:22:37 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on December 10, 2015, 07:15:54 pmCredit cards work differently.

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:25:58 pm
content: Had to three way call the company and paypal. The company says they have no history of order. The charge is on my paypal account and paypal is of no help first they said they will email me the papers I need to fax and then they hang up immediately and still no email.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:36:05 pm
content: QuoteI know. But thought all PP issued are debit cards linked to your PP balance.QuoteIs it really a charge? Or just a HOLD? My guess is the store placed a HOLD for your order amount. Then you cancelled the order. So the store doesn't need to complete the card transaction. But the HOLD still remains on your card.If the store doesn't complete the card transaction, then the HOLD will be automatically released after a few days (3-4 usually, longer over the weekend). It still sucks though, coz your money is tied in some limbo.You just need to keep checking your PP account that the HOLD amount is CANCELLED.If the store charge turns from HOLD to COMPLETED, then you can call PP and start a charge dispute. You tell them there's a COMPLETED charge from this store for X amount but you didn't place an order/cancelled it and have not received any product from said store. PP issues you a provisional REFUND, while they investigate your claim with the store.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on December 10, 2015, 07:36:05 pmYou're describing a debit card. Paypal transactions do not work like debit cards.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:40:27 pm
content: They don't take a long time to process it, they immediately show a beneficial (for them) exchange rate. Which is how they work. Remember they they offer a payment service without annual fee.Example: 6 Jan this year I bought an uCurrent. Total 85 USD. Paypal used 1 EUR = 1.1572 USD.(usd not aud)9 Jan 73.45 EUR was subtracted at my debit card.But in fact the rate was: 1 EUR = 1.1934435118 USD, so it should have been 71.22 EUR.Paypal gained 2.23 EUR, 3% of the transaction.Exactly as much as the 3.0% currency exchange tax shown in a table of the terms of service for a USD to EUR exchange.Now please tell me how they "abuse" the consumer if it's perfectly transparent and non-mandatory?

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:44:16 pm
content: QuoteAnd OP said he's using a DEBIT CARD.Quote

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:45:44 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on December 10, 2015, 07:44:16 pm... via Paypal.And you weren't even talking to the OP when you described how a debit card works.

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:48:35 pm
content: Wow sound like that guy works for paypal or hes some kind of sympathizer lol

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:49:00 pm
content: Quote from: jmegar324 on December 10, 2015, 07:48:35 pm.. who?

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:50:18 pm
content: Im not pointing any finger *cough The Jer guy cough*

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:51:54 pm
content: Not tryna talk out of ignorance tbh I don't know much about paypal's processes I am just very annoyed

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:55:26 pm
content: I'm on the OP's thread. LOL!Anyways, I'm just explaining how things worked for EVERYONE's sake (in case it's something they find useful).I just called PP last week to dispute an almost $1K unauthorized HOLD on my PP account, placed via my PP debit card's #. I asked PP to send me a new card#, they cancelled my old card, and when that $1K HOLD became completed, I called PP again. PP issued me the $1K refund within 24 hours.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 07:58:42 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on December 10, 2015, 07:36:05 pmApparently not. Mine was a stand alone credit card, issued through some financial services company. GE maybe, but I really don't remember.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 08:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: fivefish on December 10, 2015, 07:55:26 pmAnd yet, not everyone in here is the OP, and the person having issues with a refund is not the OP..QuoteAnd that's yet another special case.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 08:05:41 pm
content: Okay Monkey, I've shared my useful piece on this thread. LOL.You take over buddy! Keep up the good work!

author: jmegar324
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 08:10:58 pm
content: ohhhh kinda new to this forum stuff had to look up what op meant and I apologize for Topic jacking not my intention

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 12:42:34 am
content: I do NOT have a PP debit card, I have a Visa Debit Card. I do NOT have pay after delivery selected either. I can't because I do not know if I will have an income the following week or so.When I make a purchase from say China for example, I expect my Debit card to be charged that day by PP at the exchange rate for Chinese Currency and GBP NOT to have them wait as long as they desire till the exchange rate is higher in Chinese currency than it is in GBP ( if I am making sense here ), having already probably paid it at a lesser rate themselves days before or such and make money on my payments. I would no more accept that than maybe you would if you had a mortgage on a house and the company went to the bank 3 years later to collect your first monthly payment at a gross mark up of the premium than it would of been back then.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 12:47:40 am
content: Then tell them to use your card and that's what they will do.

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 01:00:55 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on December 10, 2015, 03:24:11 pmI'd like to do that, but I can find no option to do so.Was this a loophole that Paypal have now closed off?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 04:07:20 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on December 11, 2015, 12:55:36 amI don't think that is it. The Forex market is the largest market in the world (way larger than stocks) and liquidity is not an issue for any of the major currencies.As I said earlier - my experience is that when converting CAD to US dollars - they do it right away but at a rate well below market (in their favor). How is that legal?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 05:37:47 am
content: Quote from: jmegar324 on December 10, 2015, 07:50:18 pmI do not work for PayPal. I was just amazed by the naive call out of "they're abusing consumers".

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 10:03:37 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 11, 2015, 12:47:40 amMonkeh, I believe I said earlier that that is what I have done, my Primary payment method is my card, not my bank on a DD, they choose to ignore that and go for a DD.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 10:06:59 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on December 11, 2015, 12:55:36 amDoesn't sound strange to me, if on the day of purchase the exchange rate is low on their side but they can predict it will rise in their favour over a week period then they pay a seller instantly at the low rate but only take it from you when the exchange rate rises. If that means putting it through your account on a DD that takes days and seems to let them cover it up as to what they are doing then they will.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 11:02:10 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 11, 2015, 10:06:59 amThey can certainly do that but I wonder whether they actually do so as policy rather than just taking a bit longer when a conversion is needed.I know that they will have analysts who's job it is to predict currency market movements (look up what "arbitrage" is which is actually what you are describing) but over several days they could just as easily get burned as make a profit. If this were what is happening then I'd expectsometransactions to go through straight away, if the market was moving against PayPal.In any case PayPal will do enough currency work that a) they might not need to convert currency at all (look at the model Transferwise uses, PayPal could do that if it chose) and b) they can use Futures options to insulate themselves somewhat from short and mid term rate fluctuations.Skimming the exchange rate (which they quite definitely do) seems simple and reliable by comparison.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 11:11:12 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 11, 2015, 10:03:37 amAnd I'd love to know where you found the option to do that, because there has never been one for online payments. You select at the point of payment.I have used this feature over and over, it works perfectly well.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 12:02:37 pm
content: Try going into your account setting then and editing it. as the picture shows you mine is ticked on my debit card being my primary scource of online instore payment method.End of argument as far as I am concerned because some people just cant read what is said without rewriting it and then arguing what they assume is said.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 12:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: Deathwish on December 11, 2015, 12:02:37 pmTry reading what it says. That is not for online payments.I have paid via card directly numerous times in the last month. Every single time I see the transaction on my card the next working day, as expected.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2015, 09:36:50 pm
content: Avoid paypal as possible. I use it only for eBay and transferring money in lieu of Western Union, but seek alternatives.Problems with it are well known:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#Safety_and_protection_policies