Chip Printing! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 08:34:19 pm
content: Has Chris won the debate?http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/science/tiny-chiplets-are-a-new-level-of-micro-manufacturing.html?_r=0

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 08:37:35 pm
content: QuoteSo, no.

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 08:38:58 pm
content: Quote from: Len on April 09, 2013, 08:37:35 pmHey, give it a chance, I think in the last amphour Chris was shooting for a solution in 5-10 years.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 08:53:18 pm
content: This is mostly about making active backplanes AFAICS. Yes chips are getting printed, but not in the way you mean ... the print process is a pick and place process, it doesn't manufacture the chip.PS. for HF analog circuit experimentation it might be interesting as well.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 08:54:48 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 09, 2013, 08:38:58 pmIn other words: No, he hasn't won the bet. I'm not denying him the chance to win in 5-10 years.(Man, things are gonna begreatin 5-10 years. No more cancer, free fusion power, artificial intelligence, flying cars, a good Star Wars sequel...)

author: yanir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 09:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on April 09, 2013, 08:53:18 pmI didn'tmeananything in particular. Just wanted to share something. But I think the point is bringing the manufacture of IC's to the desktop. It doesn't really matter what technology is used to accomplish this. It's equally game changing.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 09:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 09, 2013, 09:05:19 pmFor digital circuits for which spatial dimensions are not relevant (ie. not active backplanes, which is the most relevant application for this technology) it really won't ...Sure compared to normal PCBs/substrates the level of integration possible with this Pick and Place technology is many times better, but compared to the integration of deep sub micron it's still pathetic. Most of the time there will be nothing to be gained for digital circuits by dicing up a Silicon wafer and then trying to put it back together again in a different configuration, easier to just make part of the wiring configurable (ie. a FPGA or a CMP).It might bring the manufacture of hybrid MICs to the very expensive desktops of a couple of HF designers ... that's about it.QuoteThis doesn't change the game any more than the ability to make a microcontroller out of discrete logic chips ...

author: ChrisGammell
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 09:53:59 pm
content: No, sorry chaps. Nothing has been "won".This kind of tech is going to have a slow ramp. Give it time.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 11:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 09, 2013, 08:34:19 pmNot even close.Most people have forgotten what Chris's original claim is.For Chris to win, it's not just about having a chip printing machine, you also have to have:- a way to package and protect those chips into usable standard packages- a way to test and characterise those chips- a community that has hundreds of thousands of proven designs (like thingiverse, but much much bigger)And a way to do all of the above for a similar price and availability to getting your fully packaged, fully tested, fully characterised, and fully production ready $1 chip from DigikeyIt is pure fantasy land

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2013, 11:25:42 pm
content: Quote from: yanir on April 09, 2013, 09:05:19 pmFor a few small niches, yes, possibly. For the general industry, no, not even close.The devil is in the detail, as always.

author: JoannaK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 02:13:26 pm
content: I don't understand why one would want to print replicas of the existing cheap chips.. There are plenty potential uses for chips that aren't available from Digikey at 1$ range (or even 100$).Ok.. For one exception. If you happen to be (for example) at Mars.. No matter how cheap the chip is at the earth-bound factory, the delivery time/cost makes local manufacturing more or less mandatory.

author: Orpheus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 06:23:08 am
content: I'm a big fan of Chris' hypothesis, BUT I always tell people "Can you think of one good reason why your first 5 years of experience with building, maintaining, and modifying a first- or second- gen CNC, 3D printer, Xerox copier in active service etc?" At this point they usually protest that they've never done any of that "but they've used them" or worse "have theoretical access to one".One of the great things about hacker spaces is that you can use such a machine without building, maintaining and modifying it at a level of weekly usage that makes it worthwhile to own. If you want to get that experience, volunteer at a busy hackerspace like mine. You'll quickly learn that 3-D printing "isn't quite here" for routine hobbyist use, even more than, say Linux "isn't quite ready for the casual user's desktop" after 20+years. Don't get me wrong -- I love 3D printing and Linux, and it's hard for me to imagine (sometimes) why it isn't ready for others, but there's a big/learning development curve at each installation, personal or public, and it's not trivial.So even when chip printing "is here", it won't be "here" for 5+ more years. 10 years, if it keeps chasing the latest promising technology vs completely maturing the last. Flint-knapping is a mature technology, but not many ever mastered it, even among cavemen.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 08:11:41 am
content: Quote from: JoannaK on April 11, 2013, 02:13:26 pmFor some reason I imagined a circus cannon stuffed with 7805s firing into the sky...