I have $1500 to spend on a hobby lab. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: rhinocat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:09:35 pm
content: I have $1500 to spend on a hobby lab, how should I spend it? I have a cheep soldering iron, DMM, some bread boards, Arduinos, 555's, op amps, and passives. I won't be seeing money like this for a long time, so i think I should buy the expensive stuff now while i have the money. I was thinking I should get an oscilloscope, power supply, DMM(s), and a function generator. How should I divide the money up?

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:21:05 pm
content: I've pm'd you my account number and sort code..

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:23:35 pm
content: Definitely an oscilloscope, DMM and decent power supply but I wouldn't go over the top....

author: KaiserPermanentHEY!
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: StuUK on March 24, 2016, 03:23:35 pmNormally, I'd suggest a whole new set of golf clubs, but in this case I have to agree with StuUK.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:27:53 pm
content: As you mentioned oscilloscope, lab power supply, DMMs are staples for any lab.For the rest, what are your interests? Audio, RF/Ham radio, sensors/cloud/IoT, r/c drones, robotics, build/repair, etc.Depending on your interest you might want some specific equipment... e.g., spectrum analyzer, logic analyzer (or MSO in lieu of the oscilloscope), hot air station / smd toaster oven, etc.Also a couple good books like Art of Electronics and the companion lab course plus lab parts... probably $200 just right there...

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:34:56 pm
content: Quote from: rhinocat on March 24, 2016, 03:09:35 pmIf by cheap you mean crappy, i'd begin with getting a good soldering iron. Frustration caused by poor soldering iron can be unbearable. What is the point of getting a scope if cant solder things together.

author: gilbenl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 03:44:09 pm
content: Rigol DS1054-$399Hakko FX-888D-$99Fluke 27 (ebay; yellow w/gray face)-~$50HP 3478a (ebay)-~$75-$100 (I'd get 2...That's me)HP/Agilent E36xx Power Supply-~$100ea (get either a 2 or 3 channel version or two of the single channel versions)Total: ~$950 (added $100 for shipping)SolderSolder wickFlux penHook up wireBread boardsComponent kits (Caps, resistors, inductors. "Joe Knows Electronics" on ebay. Cheap-o throw away parts, come in great assortments)Mini-fridge with beer--Also useful for storing solder paste

author: pmbrunelle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 04:32:56 pm
content: If you don't spend the money now, it will still be there in a year from now...Buy tools as you need them. This way, you only buy the tools you actually need.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 04:37:56 pm
content: Definitely agree with pmbrunelle. If you don't have any idea what you need, you probably don't need it (yet).Buy a 'scope when you are working on something that needs a 'scope. You might never get to this point and find a cheap USB logic analyser is all you need.

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 04:42:15 pm
content: Quote from: pmbrunelle on March 24, 2016, 04:32:56 pmThis, so much this!When i started i listend to all the folks who told me what i should get to start of, the only thing i wish i had listend to years before was, to buy a proper digital scope.Besides that, buy what you need for a project. Do not waste money an stuff you might need some time.There is allways one part missing you have to order annyway, unless you have been dooing this for decades, chances are that allways there will be one tiny part you can not substitute and have to order annyway.The basics are just a decent multimeter, power supply and soldering station, maybe a really cheap hot air tool.If you want to shelf out money, get a scope, multimeter, a all in one soldering station (Hot air, Iron, Desolder gun) and a bench power supply.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 04:50:36 pm
content: Dunno... if you don't spend that $1500 on electronics... it will be spent on other 'essentials'... roof repair, replacement water heater, resurfacing the drive way, wifey's hand bag...

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 07:45:55 pm
content: Good chair, good work-surface, good lighting.... Don't have to spend a bunch, but everything should be the right height, the desk not wobbly, the lighting bright but soft (minimize shadows)

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 08:09:54 pm
content: Quote from: ChunkyPastaSauce on March 24, 2016, 07:45:55 pmOn that subject, something to properly hold a PCB or workpiece is essential.Ball joint vice, PCB vice or just a regular (heavy) one.Light, yes, lots and lots of light. Id go for a few proper fluorescent tubes, with electric ballast and at least 2500 Lumens in all, spread out over a few of them to get even light.

author: xyrtek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 08:21:20 pm
content: Buy a good soldering iron, buy a good soldering iron...............you get it.If you are going to get measurement instruments then by all means watch Dave's tear-downs, nothing like knowing what's inside before you buy.Can't recommend names or brands because I don't know what matters to you most. Is it bench space? new and shinny?Like someone already mentioned, what are you planning on doing?GL.

author: michaeliv
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: gilbenl on March 24, 2016, 03:44:09 pmWhere are the sneaky $100 E36xx Agilent power supplies hiding ?

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: xyrtek on March 24, 2016, 08:21:20 pmBuy a good solderingironstationSo much added frustration when i was a kid lol

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 11:20:31 pm
content: +1 on pmbrunelle.So, yeah. Get yourself a bank account!If you don't know what you need, you don't need it. And it's a sure way to acquire things you will have no use for.Hobby lab/electronics is often confused for a sickness that manifests as the collecting of interesting looking equipment for the purpose of collecting dust. If that's what you meant, then yeah. Buy all that stuff everyone listed.The way I decide what to buy is when I catch myself thinking "having  would make this easier." Or "if I had  I could do this (or that!)!"If you think buying stuff will give you the ability to do things, you have it backwards. Learning how to do things will necessitate buying equipment. And you will know what you need.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 01:02:28 am
content: Quote from: michaeliv on March 24, 2016, 10:21:04 pmSame place the $50-$75 HP 3478A meters are hiding.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 01:08:53 am
content: Quote from: Fred27 on March 24, 2016, 04:37:56 pmI disagree. If you don't have a scope then you aren't the least bit serious about electronics. You will never ever regret buying a scope.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 02:02:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 25, 2016, 01:08:53 amI agree with Dave... Buy a $50 used CRO, like Dave suggests in the video below.I didn't buy one because I needed an oscilloscope for any project. I bought one because it was fun to learn on it, play around with circuits, probe and even try using the Arduino to draw on it. I also played the compulsory Oscillofun and Youscope demos on it. All of these help you learn the ins and outs of oscilloscope usage. Not because of any specific "need".Now the reason for a $50 used scope is because it is cheap enough to learn on and destroy (hopefully not if you are safe), won't blow your budget either... so you can get a better DSO when you actually need one and have 2 oscilloscopes! I have 3 CRO's in my possession now, all for under $200. I can still sell them and price-wise they have hit rock-bottom so you are not going to really have depreciation.Also, the $1500 you have is not going to "disappear"... Keep it in the bank. Don't just waste it all now. You never know what deals are around, and you will just have a pile of equipment collecting dust that may be a lot cheaper later down the line (or can be picked up used or discounted last year's model).

author: rhinocat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 02:28:01 am
content: Let me clear up some things. I want to learn electronics just for fun, nothing specific yet other than troubleshooting and repair on consumer electronics and playing around with Arduino. I know I need a soldering station but at $100 I can get that as a gift for my upcoming birthday. What I want to know is what percentage of my budget should i spend on a scope vs. power supply, DMM, function generator. To those saying not to buy until you need, it seem to me that a DMM is essential, a power supply is very handy, and is seems like everyone and there brother has a scope. I think the function generator is the only "frivolous" thing, but I want to learn how to use it. I would like to have a lab and learn electronics like I was going to college. I watched Dave's excellent video on buying lab equipment, but our budgets are different. Should I get the Rigol DS 1054Z or spend more money on a better scope and less on the other stuff?Thank you to all who commented.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 03:43:35 am
content: Quote from: rhinocat on March 25, 2016, 02:28:01 amYes, the sky's the limit if you want good stuff but I think you've got a good handle on what's important.While good DMM's can offer numerous features I've never had the need for anything other than a trustworthy DMM like one of the cheaper Flukes or Brymen. Check out Dave's shop for the rebranded Brymen.http://www.eevblog.com/store/The 1054Z is probably fine for your use however it's not the only DSO in this class, each with their own feature set but there's plenty of threads here for you to study.A basic AWG for you might be a SDG800 series (single channel) or a SDS1000 series (2 channel).The newer SDG2000X series might blow your budget but just so you know they've been liberated from 40 MHz (basic model) to 120 MHz.

author: michaeliv
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 04:55:07 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on March 25, 2016, 01:02:28 amWell they've found a good hiding spot cuz I sure can't find 'em.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 05:44:34 am
content: QuoteAnd you already have a DMM and a soldering iron?Just saying... the reason I don't have a 7 digit DMM is because I don't need it...I would say a $250.00 scope will probably do everything you might ever need. And if you get into RF you can guy a higher end scope and spectrum analyzer later. Cuz upping from a 50MHz to a 100MHz probably won't do much for you, there.The DMM you already have... well, what's wrong with it?The soldering iron... I personally like to have a lot of good options for tips. $200-$350 on a soldering station and accessories if you want to upgradeA function generator.. $150.00.A lab PSU $150.00That leaves the better part of $1000.00 still.Well, the most important tool I use is my bench. So maybe start looking at plans and such.But my point is that "learning electronics" doesn't necessarily take anything more than what you already have. A $15.00 soldering iron and a $15.00 DMM is all I had for the first year or two. That and the Art of Electronics. And the internet. Once you start learning and find what you like about it, you will know if you need the $5,000 scope or the $250.00 scope. Learning doesn't require fancy equipment. I knew 99% of what I currently know about electronics before I ever touched an oscilloscope.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 07:43:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 25, 2016, 01:08:53 amI was being fairly general. Electronics means different things to different people.I saw the OP mentioned Arduino. A lot of people will never go further than connecting their microcontroller to a Sparkfun breakout board and debugging the comms between them. Even if you start making your own boards it could stay low-ish frequency digital and there's really no need for a 'scope.The OP also mention op amps, so perhaps in his case the need for a 'scope will appear very quickly. I suppose the fact he wants to learn rather than have projects in mind lean towards a 'scope too.I suppose my point is, don't just rush to bulk buy a lot of stuff because other people them you that's what you will need. It's easy and fun to do, but I'd you're a little more patient you will find out what you actually need. You might make a better purchase.

author: Aeternam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:00:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 25, 2016, 01:08:53 amFor young players like me nothing beats "seeing" what's happening in a circuit. Schematics and Google are one thing, but seeing the electrons at work is another.Get a decent scope.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 10:26:18 am
content: I think a scope is a must have these days. The Rigol scopes hold their value fairly well, at least the DS1052E did.A couple of E3610A power supplies will cover most needs. I have two of them. Expect to pay more like $150-200 for later model Agilent versions in good condition. I would not buy an original HP model, or at least pay no more than $100.Just to keep an eye out for deals, I have a saved ebay search for the 3478A. I don't like them much because of the non-backlit LCD display. I get hits almost every day. I would say a reasonable price for the 3478A would also be more like $150-200. Good performance for the money.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 10:46:27 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 25, 2016, 10:26:18 amWant to buy mine? It's had to sell them for more then $200? Plus, I see the o-scope market going to lower and lower. Hopefully the software will get better, and the front ends stay the same. Maybe Dave has an insight to that. But the race to the bottem seems to be happening. 4 ch 100 Mhz for $400 seems to be the target.Ditto about a HP 3478a. Awesome little meter(input loves to float - so don't be freaked out when it's not hooked up to something). What was the price tag on it new back in the 80's? $10k or something? It's a lot of bang for the buck. That's what I love about electronics, you can buy some thing used, and since volts, ohms, and amps don't change - yester years top of the line is a steal.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 10:52:57 am
content: Well, I meant more like "it's not just flushing money down the pipes", and I was only using the DS1052E as an example. A sub-400 dollar 5 year old scope that still sells for $200 isn't too bad. I wouldn't buy one new today of course.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 11:20:27 am
content: Quote from: george graves on March 25, 2016, 10:46:27 amThey still seem to go for high prices. I found AU$250-AU$391 sold prices. And brand new sometimes more than the 1054ZCrazy.

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 07:20:05 pm
content: Necessity is the parent of invention and the parent of spending money on stuff. As someone else stated you'll know when you need something because it's the solution to a problem. If I were to use my rational brain I'd save the money in an ISA or whatever low risk tax exempt savings account is available in your country. Second-hand tools and instruments will always turn up, auction sites aren't going anywhere, they'll still be there when your $1500 has been added to and is $15000. Of course my irrational brain nags me I want some snazzy stuff, "NEW shiny thing make everything all better" when in fact it's more clutter.It's too easy to turn a 'hobby' into a money pit that isolates oneself and electronics is a hobby that can bury money quicker than gardening. Same with other big toys hobbies including the ones that I indulge in (wireless, astro) albeit only at club and professional level.You could always look for community resources like clubs, associations, tech meetups, hackaday/week/month meets. For usually a small nominal fee a year you'll get use of club equipment and with other co-hobbyists around you'll feed off and add to the shared enthusiasm. I only just found one in my city a couple of months ago when I was speaking to the uni for use of their facilities to set one up. They can turn what can become a solitary expensive hobby into a socialised less expensive one. Organisations often dispose of the assets they can't redeploy or sell to these community organisations and you could end up with equipment for very cheap, even free.I've rarely use the oscilloscope I scraped for when I was a first year student these days. I drove a bunch of people down to the Reading festival and back 2000km round trip to get that scope because that was where the second hand instrument shop was. I used it extensively throughout my course on breadboarded circuits but these days a DMM is good enough for over 90 per cent of measurements.I'm in my late forties, I've been doing this since my mid-teens, I graduated with an EE degree, I worked in R&D and I've only just bought my first proper soldering station, I got by all that time borrowing equipment, taking repair items into work. Only reason I could justify buying a station is that the cost of replacements, even repairs far outweighed the cost of the station. That's maybe an age thing, with age a recognition that 'stuff' can end up in the graveyard of abandoned hobbies.

author: ade
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:06:24 pm
content: QuoteI just picked up a 3478A on eBay for $63 (the shipping cost nearly as much). Another $10 to replace the battery and I want a new set of probes but I figure I'm still well ahead.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:47:07 pm
content: I think I have to go with Dave on this too. Get a DS1054Z, a couple of mid range multimeters, a power supply, good soldering station, and save the rest for things as you need. You should be able to get all of this for under $1000.

author: davebb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:25:20 pm
content: Hi with the soldering ion go for a Metcal ion S/Hand or new very reliable very good ,you will never look back,if you don't want to spend that much go for a weller, or go for a AOYUE rework station, they work well and cheap for parts/tips I have all of these ,the metcal gets the most use, with the metcal you have to change the tip to change the temp, the metcal is rf controlled so if you have a large copper track or a shielding can to unsolder/solder the metcal increases its rf power but the temp stays the same, you will not end up with blobs of cold/dry solder, that a cheap ion would leave , ok the tips cost about £15 EACH, They did cost £70 when the metcal was first out,ask around about a scope you may get given one as good old scopes don't sell for much,ask around some electronic factory's they mite have up-graded and will be happy to clear some space,Dave

author: gilbenl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:51:30 pm
content: Quote from: michaeliv on March 25, 2016, 04:55:07 amIn all fairness, they're not hiding, per se, but rather they're purchased within 20 minutes of the auction going up.Its also crucial to not limit the search to "Electronic Equipment" or whatever it is. I got a Datron 1071 for $70 shipped. It was listed as "1071 Power Supply" in the Kitchen Appliances category.This is probably common knowledge, but maybe not...

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 12:36:44 am
content: Have a look at the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 module. It is not professional test gear, but based on what you have written about your current skill level, intentions, and budget, I'd say it's a perfect fit. Check it out!http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 03:23:55 am
content: I have been messing around with electronics since '69 and I STILL don't have a benchtop power supply. Mostly I use wall-warts. The only reason I might by 'something' is the requirement for both +15 and -15 for traditional op amp circuits. At the moment, I have a DIN rail power block to provide those voltages.Once you move past DC circuits which you can analyze with a multimeter, you can't go far without a scope. I built my first scope back in '56 or '57 from plans in the ARRL Handbook. It wasn't much but it worked. I have been through a couple of cheap scopes and I scored a Tek 465 (350 MHz dual channel) about 12 years ago. Yesterday I ordered the 4 channel Rigol DS1054Z. Today, this is where I would start. Yes, it is going to chew up a chunk of your budget but you will need it just about every single day. I use it far more than my Fluke DMM.Before you can get to a realistic shopping list, you really do need to consider what you want to do.If you just want to 'learn electronics', I am going to suggest you go with the Digilentinc.com Analog Discovery 2. This is a lab in a tiny box. It's amazing how much electronics you can do with this $300 gadget. It satisfies your need for a scope, it has 2 variable voltage power supplies (very limited current), an arbitrary waveform generator, digital inputs and outputs (16 channels) and a lot of capability built into the software. Like the Network Analyzer which sweeps across a frequency range to measure phase and frequency response of the device under test. This is NEAT when you start playing around with tuned circuits - filters and such. Digilent also has some online courses and they are excellent. Unless you have a specific need for something else, starting here is a really good idea. You can learn a lot from just this one item!Caveat: This device is low voltage and low current. It can't power a PC, it can't read house voltages, there's a whole lot of limitations. None of which matters! Most of electronics IS low voltage and low current. At least in my little corner.Anyway, something to think about!http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/The analog parts kit, scope probes and BNC adapter board are all useful.And, yes, I did buy one a couple of years ago. I like it a lot. Of course, mine is the older V1. The V2 is classier and the adjustable supplies MIGHT be useful when working on 3.3V logic or something.Set up a PC in your lab area with at least two screens. One should be large (mine is 27") the other can be large or small, mine is just 19". Pop up the datasheets in the small monitor and run the Analog Discovery in the main screen. If you get into programming, you will do the same things: Datasheet in the small monitor, code IDE on the large monitor. I can't imagine a lab without a high power PC but, when things get tight, a laptop will do. My PC is set for dual boot: Win 10 and Debian Linux. I prefer to use Linux for most programming projects. OTOH, some software only runs on Windows. I'm agnostic, I don't care which OS I use. BTW, I would prefer 3 screens - all 27". Budget gets in the way...

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 03:50:57 am
content: Here is Dave's video review of V1 of the Analog Discovery