Power Failures! In the year 2020 !! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 12:24:59 pm
content: This is NOT a 'bitch', but a praise for the workers out there/here!!Two nights ago, at about 7:50pm, we lost power in most of Bunbury, 200kms Sth of Perth, Western Australia.We've had massive storms of wind & rain causing massive damage for 100's of kms radius. Now us Mere people often think we are hard done by, and we easily forget how reliant we are on Power! No TV, no Internet, no lights, no electric kettle, Laptops died so no alternative USB for Tablets or Phones, so all are flat. No info coming in as have no battery radio. Spent all the next day doing CrossWords! outside, until dark AGAIN.We think we have it hard... Our Pioneer Farmers etc had no power, EVER!! except eventually DC battery banks for lights!I soon chastised myself, after finally hearing about work-crews, on the car radio. They had 40 crews working flat out in multiple overlapping shifts. Called in a further 20-30 crews from remote regions to help. It seems that there was a 2nd wave to the storms, that created much MORE damage, and so the 'restoration' crews were called away to first deal with the immediate Safety issues for the new damage.Finally, they could get back to restoration work, and now by the following evening after dark again, they finally got the power back on.By now, it was still raining heavily, and windy & miserable, but all these guys were still working 10-12-14 hour shifts in appalling conditions. We need to be thankful to those, & the S.E.S. (State Emergency Services), FireBrigade, and numerous volunteer groups that dedicate themselves during such times. We should think LESS about what we DON'T have, and more about what we DO have!!

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 01:49:38 pm
content: Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 02:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 07, 2020, 01:49:38 pmWell....I guess by definition, the solar radiation during a storm is pretty low, and solar won't help much. Attached is the solar radiation for Perth today. Since solar panels are rated for 1,000 watts/square meter, you can see that the actual was only down in the 200 range most of the day. And, of course, zero at night.So unless you have a boatload of batteries that you didn't use previously (when the sun was out), you're kinda outta luck.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 02:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 07, 2020, 01:49:38 pmI guess we are 'Lucky' to not be in Tornado Alley in the U.S., where such provisions may be expected.This is definitely outside the 'Norm' for us, so we are majorly less prepared/expected!!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 02:50:15 pm
content: Yep, our whole civilization is hanging on wires.Always wanted to have one of these:https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Portrait-of-A-F-Ioffe-b-Radio-receiver-powered-by-a-thermolectric-generator_fig9_277006654Better pics here, in the second half of the page, titled "THE RUSSIAN LAMP: 1959"http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm#rlThis one is nice, too:Maybe an old laptop, or a tablet, with nothing but an offline copy of Wikipedia wouldn't hurt, either.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 03:28:06 pm
content: Up in Perth there were quite a lot of spot outages. A car got crushed by a falling tree branch not far from home. The network is pretty impressive how they can isolate such small sections to keep the rest up.Working predominantly with low voltage systems for caravans and camping, I have a decent portable setup and can run lights and power basic things for long enough to get through most outages. The generator comes out for the fridges and freezers though.The linesman work in bad conditions until the job is done. It’s cold, wet, windy, mostly dark and they’re out there cleaning up the carnage. No way I could do what they do.I hope fellow west aussies on here got through the storms without too much damage. The seas were pretty wild down south, I saw reports of 11m swells and 10m seas.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 03:53:27 pm
content: We here are the same - very thankful for the workers repairing the electricity connections during an outage, which happens mostly during thunderstorms or other unpleasant conditions.I am even taking the time to infuse that on our twin 7 year olds - don't take anything for granted and we are not an island.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 03:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on May 07, 2020, 02:50:15 pmI built the lamp in the photo below a few years back. Once warmed up it can be turned down to candle-flame levels and far more light, white and usefully directional, comes out of the LED than from the flame. It's a 60 W peltier from a camping fridge, heatsink from the same, a 5 W nominal white LED lamp very much under-run, and a one transistor boost circuit.

author: bazzatron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 10:51:36 pm
content: Was a wild night here in Rockingham WA, my wife woke me early,5pm, saying she heard a loud crash.On investigation i was confronted by the arrival of the remains of my neighbors steel garden shed in my back garden and on my spa roof.It was a tangled mess and had destroyed my clothes line and weather vane.I had to act fast and cut it apart with power tools to prevent more damage in the still high wind.My son arrived quickly and between us we managed to remove it from the roof and garden and flatpack it under some concrete slabs.My neighbor arrived the following day and removed the remains of his shed.Luckily no one was hurt and minimal damage was caused.Power stayed on ok.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 11:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on May 07, 2020, 02:05:09 pmThe OP described a longer term power interruption, even without backup having solar to charge up DC powered devices during the day is still useful.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 12:06:51 am
content: Quote from: Someone on May 07, 2020, 11:53:12 pmWhat DC powered devices?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 01:41:27 am
content: hey, its a wake up call. If you don't want a generator, which I can understand (total pain in the fucking ass sometimes), spend a couple of dollars-AA/AAA gadgets-nice box of spare batteries-portable inverter for what ever-butane can stove, like a good one (unless you have gas)-battery radio, preferably a boom box with D cells so you can relax-power bank-walki talkieshttps://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Portable-Butane-Stove-Carrying/dp/B00FGPXVSM-most important thing, because you need teaAll this is like 300$On one hand a generator can kill you with anger, on the other hand it gives you something to fix when there is no power

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 03:06:53 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on May 07, 2020, 02:49:49 pmI live in the central US and power outages after storms are a yearly occurrence. After my first ice storm where I burned a month's worth of wood in one week, I provisioned myself with backup propane heating, backup kerosene heating, and a backup gasoline generator. The generator gets a good workout at least twice a year.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 03:37:49 am
content: how do you store kerosene? Living in a warm place I only keep a few gallons on hand of the sealed stabilized more expensive can (thankfully never had to use it)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 05:47:29 am
content: Similar thing happened here, except it was an ice storm. Combination of cold temperatures and rain coated everything in a few centimeters of ice. The weight of all that ice snapped overhead wires, brought down power poles, trees falling across roads...etc. Nobody seen anything like it in the last 100 years.As a result places all over the country lost power, some got cut off from the world due to the few roads around being covered in fallen trees. Some places ware without power for a few hours here and there, some places lost power for 2 weeks (the more remote difficult to reach places). Generators flew off store shelves. It was quite the situation.Where i live we lost power twice for about a day, but it was still a huge pain in the ass. Its only then you realize how important power is. At least we still have a fireplace in the living room to keep the house warm(Otherwise we use a heatpump that needs a lot of power, so would need a hefty generator). Cell service didn't go down where i live so you still had internet to some degree and a 12V charger could be used in a car to recharge the phone.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 05:49:07 am
content: I have a Honda EU20i generator. Everytime I think about selling it, there is a need for it.Generators in general can be a pain, but treat them well and do things like draining the fuel from the carby after each use and they’ll be reliable.Get a cheap generator and it’s hit and miss. Get a good generator and you are normally pretty safe.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 08:19:55 am
content: I have a bit of a backup system myself, but I would love to do solar too. Problem is the snow. I have a 400w system on my shed but until I figure out a way to automate the snow removal, and also deal with the more nasty stuff like freezing rain, it only works for like 3 months of the year.I eventually want to buy a bigger property so I can have room to put a big array and put the panels vertical. Would probably do 3 arrays, east, south, west.A small propane generator would not be a bad idea to have though. I like the idea of propane as it's cleaner, not only for the environment but for the engine itself. So for something that does not get lot of use it's probably less prone to issues like gunking up etc.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 01:42:10 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on May 08, 2020, 03:37:49 amThe kerosene is in 5 gallon fuel cans in the garage.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 05:07:10 pm
content: I've being living at my current house for four years and have so far only had one power cut about three years ago, despite having some really bad weather ranging from wind, heavy rain and snow, over the last three winters.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 12:53:28 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on May 08, 2020, 01:42:10 pmcareful it does not keep so well in those cansI hate buying fuels because they never store well. Even the stabilized expensive one sold in sealed jugs with plastic seal are rated by manufacturer for 3 years (and I mean klean heat at 11$ a gallon)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 01:10:38 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 08, 2020, 08:19:55 amI can recommend mr. heater, with a 20 pound cylinder adapter. It's very tactical but I don't like keeping propane in the house for obvious reasons, but they screw right in and you can have heat some where in a hurry. I used to refill the propane cylinders with the ice and fridge trick, but I found one of them slowly leaking once so I stopped reusing them.That way, you have two propane powered appliances, making it a better value. Also a useful way to get rid of left over propane, since you might not want to run a generator on a 1/4 filled tank. I guess you can get some kind of manifold but that is kind of complicated, since you will be left with half empty tanks eventually, expensive/waste of space. I find half empty BBQ tanks to be a problem, even if you grill.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 06:54:33 pm
content: Where we live we get several multi-hour power outages per year. When we get really severe weather (50 MPH winds with gusts to 70 for 12-24 hours, ice storms, etc.) we have gone several days without power and some areas around here have been without power for 2-3 weeks in the 38 years we've lived in this region.We have a 7KW gasoline generator and keep a couple dozen gallons of treated, non-ethanol gasoline on hand at all times. We have enough engine-powered things around (boats, ATV's, jetskis, plus cars) that the gasoline gets FIFO'd so it doesn't go stale. I run the generator for 30 minutes or so at the first of every month as a preventive measure. Everything that generates large amounts of heat in the house (HVAC, water heater, dryer, oven, cooktop, etc.) is natural gas fired, and all light bulbs have been switched to LED, so 7KW of on-site power allows us to run the house like normal 24/7.The remaining last step would be a NatGas fired autostart generator with an automated transfer switch. I can honestly say that in my lifetime I have NEVER seen the natural gas system "go out" unexpectedly, and I've lived in three US States including "earthquake prone" California. An automatic NatGas generator is about is foolproof as you can get. But by the time you buy the generator, and install it, and pay the gas company to increase your meter size to support the increased demand (it's substantial), you're approaching USD 10K and I can manually start a gasoline generator a lot of times for that much money.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 08:23:24 pm
content: benefit is refrigerator protection

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 08:31:55 pm
content: I've looked into those natural gas generators too but yeah can't quite justify it. For fridge/freezer, if things got really bad I would just make ice outside and bring it in, or start moving food outside.For a while every time it was windy we got a power outage on my block since trees would touch the HV line that runs behind my house, but the crews would usually have it back up within 1-2 hours so the UPS made more sense. They've been keeping the trees trimmed now so it happens less often.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 09:16:13 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 09, 2020, 08:31:55 pmi struggled with a cheap gasoline one for like 15 years, fuck it. I am hank hill about that. One fuel for grill, heat and electricity. Does not spoil. Does not smell. Actually works. And you CAN put gasoline in it if you want to, so long you clean it after (hopefully it will never come to this).I do wonder if it would have a problem in a really cold weather environment, but its usually summer rain storms hereAlso the factor of draining fuel (usually wait for it to cool some what) is annoying as hell. This you can put away and forget about immediately after 2 couplings and 1 valve.BTW you can get a kit to refurbish generators to run on propane, i.e. the tiny honda generators. That might be very interesting for you. Those little hondas are really cool, but I don't own one, rather have everything work then play circuit breaker management etc. You can probably do it with a cheap garbage one too.Notes about video to do a better job:1) add a bracket for the zip tie, don't tie two hoses together, its really ghetto2) use a torque wrench (its fire)3) do apply the loctite and see if you can extend the threads, I don't like it for high vibration, read about how to use threadlocker and clean before using it as recommended. Careful with temperature there, you might need a high temp threadlocker, and you need to make sure there is no plastic contact because metal threadlocker does not like plastic, and plastic safe threadlocker is gummy and probobly sucks with temperature. consider using a lockwire, castle nut, etc4) lose the quick connect, lazy BS, use a gas rated brass fitting (like on a welder)5) strain relief on the hose might be a good idea (bracket + rubber)6) don't use the thin plastic cover to mount the top fitting, add a bracket to a heavy structural element

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 12:52:52 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on May 09, 2020, 09:16:13 pmEmphasis mine. "Cheap" is your problem. A generator with a decent engine from a reputable manufacturer (Honda, B&S, Kohler, etc.) will start instantly every time and last for many, many years with just minimal maintenance. The 7KW unit I mentioned above cost me $699 from the local Home Depot (big box) store. It's been 100% reliable for the 6-7 years I've owned it. I use non-ethanol gasoline with Seafoam additive, and I run it for ~30 minutes each month to keep the fuel system clean and the seals from drying out.As for gasoline engines in general, I just sold our previous snowblower. It had the original 10HP Briggs & Stratton gasoline engine that it came with when I bought it 20+ years ago, and it ran perfectly. The only reason I sold it was to buy a larger, wider snowblower because we now live where we get even more snow and have an even longer driveway.QuoteIf you run it ~30 minutes once a month, you don't have to drain anything. I've never drained the 7KW generator, not even once. As for seasonal engines (like snowblowers), those get drained at the end of each season if convenient, otherwise they get topped off with treated non-ethanol fuel to minimize the air volume that can cause condensation during storage.QuoteThat flexibility is indeed cool, but propane has less energy content per unit volume and unit weight than does gasoline so you take a performance hit. Plus, the container for five gallons (or any other volume) of propane is a larger and heavier than for gasoline. If you're going to run the generator for just a few hours, you can fill its integrated tank and then you don't need to lug an entirely separate fuel tank, hose assembly, and regulator - just pick up the generator (like it was designed) and go.Hmm... I wonder if folks who have done that propane conversion have TWO propane tanks. If not, then they are offline while they take the tank somewhere to get it refilled with propane. With gasoline, a single five gallon can will keep the generator's integrated tank filled, and the generator running, indefinitely. Fill up the integrated tank and the generator keeps running for hours and hours while you take your time going to a nearby gas station.Add to that the fact that gasoline is available almost anywhere, 24/7 with a credit card, and is self-serve (none of which are true at least here in the States). Finally, if you don't use the gasoline in your generator (or lawn mower or weed eater or jetski or ATV or boat or...) you can always just pour it into your car.It's very difficult to beat the flexibility, convenience, ease of access, breadth of use, and availability of gasoline. I do fire my grill withitpropane, but only because my present house doesn't have a NatGas fitting on the deck. My last house did, and I rejetted the grill to burn NatGas so I didn't have to lug around those propane bottles nor have the risk of running out of propane. Your comment did just give me a flashback, though... back when we used to go tent camping, all of our Coleman equipment (stove, lantern, etc.) were dual fuel specifically so we could use gasoline. As you said, one single fuel to power everything, including the vehicle that drove us back home.EDIT: Corrected mistype of "it" to "propane".

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 01:32:40 am
content: If you're going with gasoline and only use it occasionally, a hybrid car can double as a backup generator.http://priups.com/riddle/answer-1.htmIf you live in a cold climate and have a cheap source of liquid or gas fuel (e.g. natural gas), a home CHP generator is worth looking into. If the generator is 30% efficient at generating electricity and the thermal recovery system can recover 80% of the heat, and you use the electricity to run a heat pump with a heating COP of 2.5, you end up with 1.31 units of heat for every unit of energy contained in the fuel.

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 07:45:12 am
content: If you have kerosene heaters, there is a better and cheaper source of kerosene than buying it at a fuel dealer or hardware/lumber store. Take your empty cans to the nearest general aviation airport ... one that serves small planes ... not a big jetport. What you want is jet-A or jet-A-1 fuel. It's a more refined and stabilized form of kerosene and usually cheaper than the kerosene sold in stores. At my nearest airport, I just go to the pump, put in my credit card, and fill the cans.Do NOT buy aviation gasoline or jet-B fuel unless you want death by fire. Military JP-8 will work; do not use any other military JP fuel.Mike in California

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 01:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: calzap on May 10, 2020, 07:45:12 amHere in Missouri, kerosene is available at many gas stations.

author: calzap
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 02:29:32 pm
content: My older relatives used to live in N. Arkansas and S. Missouri. Most are dead now; their children moved elsewhere. As a child, I remember them buying kerosene at gas stations. At the stations, it was stored in rectangular tanks above ground and dispensed with hand-cranked pumps. My relatives called it coal oil, but even then, it was derived from petroleum, not coal.Mike in California

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 03:01:04 pm
content: Now that we're exporting it, expect the price of natural gas to go up a LOT the next cold winter we get after the coronavirus thing is over. It may take a few years but it will likely be soon enough to make it quite substantially more expensive. Electricity will likely go up a lot too. This is why they are trying to bring back coal. LNG fetches a LOT more money in Asia than here.Lots of businesses may close and especially, multiunit apartment buildings too, because its no longer economical to operate without cheap electricity or gas.They have been trying to do this for a very long time, now they are.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 05:44:00 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on May 10, 2020, 03:01:04 pmThings are going to get interesting when solar is already cheap and getting even cheaper. The PG&E crisis in California is already pushing a lot for energy independence at home.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 09:03:17 pm
content: When the sun is out thats definitely a good option. The worst case scenario is a year where there is a volcanic eruption that puts a lot of ash in the air. Like "The Year Without a Summer" that Ben Franklin wrote about. No crops, no wind, no rain, no heat. I think "The Scream" was painted in such a year.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2020, 03:12:19 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on May 10, 2020, 05:44:00 pmThere's another hilarious side to that. We have close friends on the main island of Hawaii. Roof installs of solar panels have become quite the fashion there, since they get a lot of sun and the state government mandates that excess power must be purchased by the local power company. The result is that the power company, at least on Hawaii, is losing money and cannot afford to maintain their infrastructure. So much solar power is coming into the grid, for which they are compelled to pay, that they are not selling enough of their own generated power to cover their expenses. They have increased their rates, but that just drives more residents to install solar on their roofs because the breakeven timeframe just gets shorter.It's hilarious when folks insist on corrupting the free market. Inevitably, they force people to re-learn that the road to he!! is paved with good intentions. Nobody knows how this is going to end up. Who will pay to maintain the electrical grid? Will they continue to have centralized power stations at all, and if so who will pay for those? Does the state government dare rescind the mandated power-buy, destroying the business case for (and the political support from) all those homeowners who paid $10's of K up front to install solar?

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2020, 05:30:34 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on May 11, 2020, 03:12:19 amThat does sound like a recipe for disaster.We have a 12kW solar array but the way it works with the particular power company we use is that you only pay for the difference in kWh between the generated and used power. But if you generate more than you use they won't pay you for it and you give them the power for free. So you can't actually make money from the solar power, but it does grantee a 1:1 buy/sell rate for you. To be able to actually sell power here, then you need some extra paperwork cause you need to be a company to do that.But it does work out pretty well overall. Its similar to having a off grid setup except that the power company instead provides you with a "battery array" with infinite capacity and zero maintenance in the form of the power grid. Real battery arrays big enough to cover the daily usage of a typical full sized house are not cheap so its a pretty good deal. But you don't get any of the battery backup functionality since if the grid is down so is your solar setup. But the grid appears pretty reliable here apart from a few extreme cases here or there, i only have one UPS and its a dinky little one that i got a few years ago to gently shut down my NAS server in a potential power failure. Nothing else is on UPS cause power failures are so rare.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2020, 05:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on May 11, 2020, 05:30:34 amThis sounds reasonably fair if the KWH is averaged over a year. If it averages every 24 hours it doesn't sound like a very good deal for the consumer.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 06:48:59 am
content: Quote from: Gregg on May 11, 2020, 05:03:32 pmYep the line is drawn at the end of the year. So it works out pretty good.Especially since we heat the house using a heatpump. So a crap ton of power is used during the winter, but the solar is generating a crap ton of power during the summer. So they are pretty nice for holding on to that exess power for half a year.Not sure how the finances work out on there side for this. But they are a company that just resell power, they don't maintain any of the power infrastructure. Mostly started off with them striking a deal with the nuclear plant for cheep power and then selling it off to households at a cheaper rate than the usual power company. So they don't really have any concerns with keeping the grid healthy. Later on they started offering these solar deals and i guess this just means they have to buy less power from that nuclear plant.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 10:11:10 am
content: My fear with solar taking off is the government will eventually tax it to the point that you don't save by going solar. They don't like it when people find ways to save money, and they want their cut. Hopefully it does not happen but I would not put it past them tbh.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 10:30:15 am
content: Everyone I know with solar prayer panels is going to lose money in the long run after doing some rough math,as well as the current stress of gearing their lives around the peak and off peak thingThose panels and electronics will need to be replaced one day,one day after the first lot finally just got paid offSolar panels charging batteries sounds like a better goer than just playing the grid game bs,it's stored power you can use any time running it through the sine wave inverterI'll wait a while longer and DIY a decent rig, once the prices get real methinks..

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 11:21:06 am
content: Yeah saving money with solar is pretty iffyDad wanted to get into this solar thing and with all the batteries involved it didn't quite make sense. Especially since it would be difficult to make use of all the excess power in summer. So the idea was abandoned.Its only once this power reselling company offered this new way of just trading your generated kWh for consumed kWh 1:1 making them a free infinite capacity battery that it started making sense. On top of this there are some subsidies for this to help reduce the initial investment. But even after this its still not that terrific of an investment, but it does pay back well within the expected lifetime of the system.If we are trying to be nice to the environment then id say just build more nuclear plants.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 10:29:32 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on May 12, 2020, 11:21:06 amthat's a top optionbut unfortunately there will always be an unforeseen convenient 'accident' to shut them down 'somehow'with an awesome news media carnival to go with it,to ensure it's a long time between builds or rebuilds (not),and let's not forget how many -thousands of centuries- it takes for the nuke fallout to go away, according to their 'experts',that somehow fails to convince plant life and animals to stay away from ground zeroyeah, the fossil fuel crew are good like thatlots of smoke, fireworks, a good side show for the viewerstons of their paid good troll/bad troll teams on the internet via social media, forums, Youtube etcto beat down on anyone questioning their racket, aka conspiracy theory nutsand of course during any crisis like that, fuel prices get nudged up a bit to cover their expenses = win winshhh..

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 12:05:27 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 12, 2020, 10:29:32 pmThe solution to nuclear energy is thorium. It's not perfect, but it's decidedly better than uranium-based nuclear. Thorium is quite abundant and broadly distributed on the planet (three times as plentiful as tin!), and when used for fission generates much smaller amounts of much lower radiation byproducts - many of which can be recycled for more fuel, and virtually none of which can be used in weapons.It's this last detail that killed thorium power early on. Governments wanted the uranium and plutonium byproducts for weapons, so they shut down research into thorium power in favor of uranium based fission which gave them the byproducts they wanted. But the physics hasn't changed, and thorium would be an excellent part of an overall environment friendly energy package.Guess who is leading in thorium R&D right now? China and India. The west needs a Manhattan Project for thorium power. Most of the basic questions were answered decades ago, we just need to commercialize it.Or we can just ignore thorium and continue down our primrose path....

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 12:15:11 am
content: Assuming I'm wrong about the government eventually taxing it (I hope I am) then you definitely can save with solar but you need the land for it. Rooftop is too much of a pain to maintain, ground mount is best. If they are vertical facing east, south and west (could make a C then have the battery building in it too) then snow should not be as much of an issue so they will be low maintenance. Pay a lot now to save forever. Hydro rates only keep going up year after year. Wish I had more land as I would definitely work towards going off grid. Easier to do in a country setting though, where you don't need permits to build anything, and can have a wood stove for heat etc and have more land to play on. It's my dream to buy such land eventually. Just waiting for the right parcel to come up, I'm hoping to find something water front with road access.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 05:12:19 am
content: There was some talk about adding another reactor to the single nuclear plant we have here. But yeah it will never happen. There would likely be protests to begin with and if it does end up going trough then such a large project would inevitably end up going massively overdue and overbudget because the funding would disappear to corrupt middlemen on it (This is what happened on the extra block of a coal plant that was being built).Don't think we can do much about the radioactive boogieman, especially in these times when flat earthers, 5G fools, antivaxers..etc are at a all time high. One would think giving everyone access to information on the internet would make them smarter and more informed... pretty much opposite is the case it seams. It just makes it easier for people to group together and form "stupidity cults" that spread there own misinformation.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 06:21:28 am
content: Nuclear definitely seems to be the best balance of environment and power output. Main issue with solar/wind is storage. I think more effort needs to go towards that, but for the time being nuclear is best bet. Too bad people are so scared of it. Funny thing is there have been way more oil disasters than nuclear disasters. Just look at the BP oil spill in the ocean, the effects of that will be seen for centuries if longer.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 06:56:08 am
content: Yep, gotta show protesters some love tooThe fossil fuel crew pay good money to their mates at news media circus Inc to make nuke power look badand their 'better the devil we know' racket a better bet,or their blunder spillages and gas blowups just not mentioned as much, if at alland 'dial a crowd' protestors will prostitute themselves for a dime and TV attention,sell their own offspring and parents to slavery when cash is low.Most of those placard waving asses are cheap and easy to buy,and on regular standby call to go anywhere any time,free flights, transport, accommodation, clothing, disguises, violence startup scripts, booze, coke, spending cash,and other benefits like > no interest loans on houses, cushy job preference, good school grades for their brats etcall the good stuff that low life sellouts and 5th columnists enjoyJust the type of people you need as neighbors..

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 08:51:16 am
content: Everyone who here use a Diesel Generator how to deal with the E10 Crap?I heard that are not so stable for long therm Storage.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 12:38:06 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 13, 2020, 06:21:28 amAnd when was the last solar or wind disaster? Specifically one that was not localized to the installation site.I have a clue thermal storage will be a big part of the solution when the majority of residential load is HVAC.Quote from: Lord of nothing on May 13, 2020, 08:51:16 amThere's no ethanol in diesel.