Opinions on all-in-one hot air rework and soldering stations - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 02:02:08 am
content: What are your thoughts on all-in-one combo hot air rework and soldering stations? i.g.http://www.amazon.com/ALL-ONE-X-TRONIC-SOLDERING-PREHEATING/dp/B00DRHRZ3S/I don't have ether a soldering station or a hot air rework station. I would like to get into SMD work and I'm thinking a combined unit would save on money and space. What brands are reputable, what would you recommend?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 02:34:52 am
content: Seems to have a lot of good reviews. Lets see what the professionals think (probably not so good).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 02:52:28 am
content: I think you would get better quality if you buy separate pieces. There will be a higher cost and take up more space but you can get quality separates. This way if there is a major failure in the psu, you are not completely down as opposed to individual psu's for each piece of equipment. I have separate soldering irons, hot air station and a desoldering tool. The other advantage is that you may find that you don't particularly like 1 part of the all in one, whereas you will buy the separates that you like and you will play harmoniously with all your toys.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 03:01:43 am
content: preheater is 10x10cm, acceptable if you fix phones

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 04:10:24 am
content: If it's the diaphragm pump style hot air, there's a rather fat hose connecting it to the station on the left. Then there's a soldering iron on the right. So think about that, and where you are going to put it.I struggled for a long while to figure out exactly where to put my hot air station without it being a bother. I have it to the right of my soldering iron. I cut a slot out of the bench top where the hose can drop through it.My next hot air station, I'll try the fan-in-handle type. Stand-alone.If you want a completely separate work area for using this heater, complete with its own iron, then why not? With the hot air on the left, maybe you can set it up to the right of your current soldering area so you can use just the hot air gun, which you will probably be using about 20x as often as the heater unit.To save space... unless you are going to use the heater as your default work space, setting up your lighting/scope over it, you aren't necessarily saving any space. If you're just getting into SMD, and you like your soldering iron, I would just get a hot air station. The Xtronic soldering iron is pretty solid, if you don't already have a good one. But when I look at that, all I imagine is the dead space for the rarely used board heater and the cords crossing everywhere... on top of the probes and power leads that will be on the bench.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 04:46:37 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on September 25, 2015, 04:10:24 amThe pictures of the Amazon unit show a single cable to the hot air handpiece. You can see it has a centrifugal fan in the cable end.My opinion is that IR preheaters like this one are a great way to ruin boards. You can tell it's open-loop: there is no thermocouple shown for measuring the board's actual temperature, and the page makes no mention of any controlled ramp to limit thermal shock.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 05:44:44 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on September 25, 2015, 02:52:28 amAgreed. Buying separates also allows you to choose a better quality tool for the one that's used most (presumably the iron) and a cheaper one for a tool that's used less.But as a concept, an all in one is not bad, provided quality is OK. Big names such as JBC do this too, and we use several of them at work. For DIY cost of those is prohibitive, though. But if I were to seriously do a lot of soldering at home, I would definitely shell out on a JBC iron, and then something cheaper for desoldering.Separates also allow you to spread out expenditures.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 07:18:45 am
content: QuoteKinda harsh. Using an IR preheater, at all, is reducing thermal shock over just hot air, alone. It doesn't need to be closed loop to actually work, in practice. It's up to the operator to figure out how to get it to work with their boards. It can probably barely even get hot enough to ruin a board, if at all.Even if it was closed loop, it is still going to take some tweaking for different sized boards and components. Just because there's a sensor and a number on a screen, this number doesn't magically correlate with the temperature of the IC on the board.The reviews tell the story. If it didn't work, it wouldn't have 4.5 stars. I have Xytronics equipment. It works fine and is pretty decent for the money.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 07:28:27 am
content: Reviews tell a story of who was motivated to write and why. Most of the reviews of this product seem inexperienced and a few read like plain shills.Also Xytronics is not related to X-tronic.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 08:03:46 am
content: Oops. I meant X-tronic. I have one of their hot air stations.QuoteIf they have anyone in their company that can write English with proper grammar, they should probably get them over to the customer service department.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 09:06:47 am
content: QuoteHere's my take on this. Component manufacturers come up with these pretty graphs. They have a ramp up, and a plateau, and then a spike. It doesn't mean they experimented with unnatural curves. This is just one graph that works, and which comes pretty naturally.Ramp up: Uh.. it takes time for things to get hot. This comes naturally, whether it's a turkey over a fire, a board in a $1000 reflow oven, or a pcb on a hot plate.Plateau: This is where you stop and wait for everything to reach the same temp, because some things heat up slower than others. A board pre-heater, for instance, is the plateau. And the problem with a cheap little board heater is not that it's going to torch board. It was designed to preheat boards, so that would be counter-productive. The problem it will have is that it can only handle smaller boards. (And/or it might die 1 week after the 1 year warranty expires).Spike: this is where you put the hot air wand over an IC. When it reflows, you remove the heat.This is all pretty simple. Just because there's no specific heating curve mentioned doesn't mean that these type of curves are mostly describing what happens naturally, anyway. Trying to tweak this curve in an open-air small heater design would be a waste of mental energy. W/e happens naturally is going to be more than fine with a little user input and experience. If you can't tell when a board is so hot it's delaminating, then you probably aren't going to do much better with any equipment. No matter how many graphs you draw, it doesn't make it rocket science.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 12:11:53 pm
content: At least with hot air+soldering iron, if you buy the pieces separately you have a chance of fixing one with the other.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 04:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on September 25, 2015, 09:06:47 amBut probably only directed at manufacturers of electronics so they know how to set the profile in their reflow ovens, wave solder machines or other soldering machines.The reality of the work floor is that hand desoldering and soldering is not a very precise process. For most of the repairs, a "that'll do" approach is used.Normally, we rarely use a preheather. Only when a board has lots of layers and many flood filled copper planes and/or thermally challenging components would we use a preheater.The only other device that we need the solder profiles for is the BGA repair station. (We usethis one, obviously this heats both sides of the board under repair).

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:29:10 pm
content: The preheater bed size is 4.75" x 4.75". The circuit board holder bracket accommodates up to 6.5" I would think if you had a larger board then that you could just set it on top of the holder bracket... hot air rises.One thing that concerns me is the X-tronic doesn't state how long their warranty period is. I can't find any mention of them even coming with a warranty.

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:32:52 pm
content: If I went with separates I would probably get the Hakko FX888D-23Y for the soldering station. However, what do you recommend for the hot air rework station? Also what would you recommend for a vacuum pump desoldering station?

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 11:37:31 pm
content: Is Aoyue brand any good?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 04:01:51 am
content: I'm a fan of separates. Not only can you get exactly what you want (same brand or mix-n-match), but the remaining soldering equipment that's still working can be used to fix a broken unit (i.e. hot air rework to fix an iron or vise versa).Try fixing a broken all-in-one with itself...Quote from: nbritton on September 25, 2015, 11:32:52 pmHot air rework station:Quick 861DWDesolder:Hakko FR-300The Quick is actually well made, unlike most of the Chinese made stuff (there's plenty of information on it if you search, including internal photos by memberwrapper; also found under 861DS and 861DA, which are 230V versions for Poland and the UK respectively).Granted, each of the above units is ~ the cost of the unit you linked, but they're much better built and will perform as expected (saves money in the long run, with far less aggravation as an added bonus).Regarding a soldering iron, that's what you'll use the most. So you might want to consider a Hakko FX-951 instead (much better performance and easier tip changes). Tip costs aren't too bad either (cartridge types, but very well priced at ~$20 per for common profiles). It's ~$236 from TEquipment. ** PM sent.Quote from: nbritton on September 25, 2015, 11:37:31 pmNot so much.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:50:53 am
content: And the advertised price on TEquipment for the 951 is before our EEVblog discount.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:58:13 pm
content: QuoteAccording to their support, everything they sell is money back for 30 days and 1 year warranty (less return shipping).X-tronic appears to have exclusive gear. I have yet to see the same stuff rebranded under different names. And their distribution and support is stateside. Somewhere in the Midwest, IIRC.