Has something changed recently with gerber files? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 09:01:35 pm
content: I have been using Protel PCB 2.8 for over 20 years. Always generating the same files e.g. (this is a 4-layer board)I've just had a looong "conversation" with, guess who, JLPCB who advertise right above this thread. They did not recognise the data. Kept saying it is invalid. After I suggested the guy finds someone "older" they sorted it.Previously I used ITEAD who did use the same data without an issue, but that was 2 years ago and they took a long time to respond to my email this time. I emailed them because their online shop requires payment before uploading the file. Initially I had another loooong conversation with someone there who didn't know anything about this; also just saying the data was invalid. Later somebody else picked up the emails and said they can read it.Basically what I am seeing is a fairly standard "Chinese communication issue" (I have been buying from China for over 20 years, production PCBs and a ton of other stuff) and this is all too common unfortunately, but I wonder if perhaps there some new gerber format coming in?If so, is there a converter? It would need to be 100% reliable.Also can anyone recommend a good free gerber viewer? I used to have one but it stopped working recently. Protel can import gerber but only its own.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 09:04:50 pm
content: Well.. there isn't a standard (extension) naming convention for Gerbers. It could be that JLPCB decided that it would be better if customer adhere to their naming convention. For example: Seeedstudio has their own Gerber filename extension naming convention.

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 09:40:48 pm
content: Gerber viewer:https://www.zofzpcb.com/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2019, 12:53:35 am
content: A less demanding Gerberviewer is Viewmate from Pentalogix.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2019, 09:21:40 am
content: It looks like Zofspcb cannot accept a separate aperture file (.apt). I have searched and cannot find a way to tell it. It just complains that some aperture is not defined.Viewmate asks a load of personal info and it's obvious they will harrass you for marketing for ever. You have to use a valid email to get their S/N. I used a disposable email and got it working.I installed Gerbv next (previous thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/gc-prevue-not-free-any-more-need-basic-gerber-viewer/) and that also cannot load the .apt file, nor does it find it automatically. The project homepagehttp://gerbv.geda-project.org/does say it does only RS274X which has the aperture data embedded in each file. My data is RS274 D which uses a separate apt file. I suspect ZofsPCB is the same.So I installed the old GCpreview from the end of the above link. That works and loads the design but (even though I happily used one on another computer before it "expired") I am finding the user interface utterly weird. The layer selection is bizzare. Also it fails to read rectangular apertures; all pads are shown as round.However, it imports RS274X solder paste data (from PCB companies) perfectly. Even data from 1999, which it reports as RS274X. Protel 2.8 (1995) uses RS274D (a separate .apt file) and I think the change must have happened all those years ago.The end verdict: Viewmate works and works best. The .apt file has to be loaded separately initially else it gets confused. Also the .txt file (the list of drills) is reported as corrupt.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2019, 03:03:38 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on September 28, 2019, 09:21:40 amSeparate aperture files means you don't have standard RS-274X files, but likely older RS-274D format, which is completely obsolete. Some viewers (or manufacturers for that matter) may still be able to import that for legacy reasons, but many do not. Just try to submit RS-274D files to any of the fast/low-cost manufacturers and see how far you get. (And even the high-end ones will frown, but may accept if your order is significant...)

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2019, 03:44:22 pm
content: Yes; I have concluded that is spot on. D instead of X.I have been getting PCBs madein productionwithout any difficulty, in the UK and for the last 20+ years, in China, since I got Protel PCB in 1992. That only ever produces the stuff with the separate .apt file.Nobody has said anything whatsoever...ITEAD made prototypes for me 2 years ago, also without a word.JLPCB have had difficulties with it recently but later found somebody who knew what to do with it.Is it possible that X merely includes the entire aperture list at the start of each layer file? Apertures are like fonts; there is no harm in specifying the whole list for each layer's data, because only those referenced will get used. In that case, a converter should be dead easy to make. One could probably do it with a script. I could look at some sample files and try to work it out but I wonder if there is a converter out there? A google just turns up a post in Viewmate's forum saying that Viewmate can be used to do it.Another way is to import the design into Protel PCB 99SE and do the gerbers out of that. 99SE opens the Protel 2.8 binary .pcb file apparently successfully and there is an option in the (convoluted) gerber output feature to generate "embedded apertures" which Viewmate displays fine.Examining the two sets of files side by side doesn't revealidenticaldata but then it probably would not, due to rounding errors in the floating point representation, etc.Then I had an idea... I opened up PCB 2.8 and what do I find?

author: Mattylad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2019, 10:28:50 pm
content: Yes, RS274-X contains embedded apertures, if you have been submitting RS274-D files then you have been giving them problems you devil youNext your going to tell us that your still outputting your dill sizes in thou....BTW, if you use "center plots on film" make sure that both gerber and NCdrill outputs use the same bed size, if not then the center is not in the same place and the drills will be offset.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2019, 11:06:39 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on September 27, 2019, 09:01:35 pmJLCPCB can be a bit strange at times.On a few occasions I have been told there were shorts on my pcb (tracks too close I guess)My software said there wasn't so I just resent the original files and they were accepted the next time.On a couple of occasions I was told they didn't understand my gerber filenames.But I just sent them again and it went through ok nex ttime.I think it depends who you get checking the pcb gerber files.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2019, 11:46:54 am
content: I have just discovered that the job I ordered had not even been started on... Somebody did look at the gerbers early on and I answered a couple of questions (actually they were pretty diligent) but then it got stuck somewhere.They agreed to cancel it and refund.I submitted new gerbers and this time with embedded apertures. Their website gerber viewer now shows the PCB. Progress!One small detail is that when I specify shipping address, UK (or GB or England) is not on the pulldown list, so I put down the full address and it has China on the bottomI was tempted to use Afghanistan but that might ring alarm bellsThey are not really geared up for export business. But refunds work very well.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2019, 04:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: peter-h on October 06, 2019, 11:46:54 amI warned you.