The affordable way to send small parcels - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 11:39:50 pm
content: QuoteQuote from PostNLLetterbox packet, 0-2 kg: 13 EURAffordable.So according to our overlords, I can order a 1 EUR gadget with free shipping from China.If I want to sell something like this, I'm supposed to send it in a packet for 13 EUR.Affordable.I'm slightly wondering how can Amazon send me a prime parcel, where the goods is 5 EUR.This is the royal snail mail. If they loose it, they just raise their shoulder, say "sory" and leave on their orange bicycle. I sometimes wonder why Dave doesn't receive too many packages from the Netherlands. So sending a 5KG package is 83 EUR. DHL is 134EUR.I checked the pricing of DHL Germany, sending a 5KG package to Australia, just for the kick of it. 45.99 EURAffordable!

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 11:51:40 pm
content: DHL is perhaps the most expensive shipper. The next tier has USPS, UPS, and FedEx.I think shipping from China is subsidized by that government. I bought a 2 liter polyethylene pitcher with four plastic glasses online for $1 with free shipping. I wonder where the profit is in such a deal. It was so good I bought another, same price. But that was shipped from USA, where I live, so not international.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 12:23:49 am
content: Part of the benefit that Chinese shippers receive is because the Universal Postal Union sets termination fees based on the sending nation's economic development level. So a country considered a "developing nation" pays less to the destination country for the final domestic delivery service. Those rules were changed in 2019, but the full effect of the changes has not yet taken place.When the fees to importers are held artificially low, the fees to exporters must rise to compensate if the post office wants to balance its books.Recently, small parcels shipped from China have been filtering out of smaller countries like Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan as those enjoy even more favorable status within the UPU.Another change has been towards freight consolidators like OrangeConnex, which receives bulk shipments from China and divides them up to ship them domestically to the purchasers.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 08:22:25 am
content: Quote from: helius on March 19, 2021, 12:23:49 amI'm aware of this imbalance of shipping costs.But this makes e-commerce completely impossible for small items. Let's say I make a tiny doodad, which has 1 EUR hardware. I factor in some work packing it, the packaging costs some money. Padded envelope another maybe 30 cents. I pay another half EUR for each unit shipping + import tax. I use Dave's formula for calculation the selling price. Say the selling price is 7 EUR.+13 EUR shipping to Europe. For USA it is 23 EUR.Would you buy this item?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:02:14 am
content: The shipping costs are quite different from country to country. Inside Germany one can send a small bag up to 500 g for 1.55 EUR. To much of Europe it's ~ 5 EUR, so still acceptable.The low shipping costs (due to postal trities) from China are a problem and have to ( and will) change. However dealers alread start to move on to other other countires (e.g. ship from Vietnam). The reduced tarif many have been OK in the past for private use, but it got unfair with large scale mail orders, especially with the added waiver on sales taxes in most of the EU.It was the old low shipping costs from China that were wrong, not the new high costs.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:23:36 am
content: THe days of cheap Chinese stuff from Ali etc is nearly at an end , the VAT de minimis of €22 is ending in June and the postal costs are rising due to changes in china’s IPU ( international postal union ) statusI already see the PCB companies have mostly dropped any of the ordinary slow post options

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:38:33 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 18, 2021, 11:39:50 pmThink that's bad? Now try to send anything above 31.5kg anywhereSeriously, though, if/when you have some volume you talk to GLS/DPD/whatever for a contract. Helps a lot. Eurosender or a comparable platform often also help a bit, but outside the EU they can't do much.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 02:52:21 pm
content: No wonder buying anything electronic from the EU invariablycosts too muchmoney.Sorry!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:17:27 pm
content: Its the same here in Canada, sending a letter is cheap, but any sort of small package is ~$15. So small sales of t-shirts, PCBAs, etc. is just not realistic.You can look if there are any companies offering discounted shipping rates. The one I use here is Netparcel.Quote from: tszaboo on March 18, 2021, 11:39:50 pmAmazon will have a deal with postal company to ship at reduced rates due to their high volume. Plus that is part of what your yearly prime membership is paying for.They also inflate the cost of some cheaper items, or designate them "addon only" to combine shipping.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 01:59:56 am
content: Lots of different meaues by governments in lots of different treaties go like this.Some countries even get a huge loophole on wages they have to pay their workers.The problem is generally called social dumping. Also if you're curious, you can also find info under the terms "Special and Differential Treatment" or "S&DT " another important one is "LDC Services Waiver".Quote from: tszaboo on March 19, 2021, 08:22:25 amThis makes me want to buy things Ive been thinking of buying now, before the price to ship it here goes up.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 02:22:57 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 18, 2021, 11:39:50 pmLots of replies but I see that no one has answered your question directly. Here in the US, Amazon maintains warehouses all over the country and they use their own vehicles or a sub-contractor (usually a free lance individual) to deliver their items from the nearest warehouse. They don't use the US PS, UPS, FexEx or any of the other usual shipping companies so that saves them tons of money.And BTW the price that most companies pay for shipping via those companies is a small FRACTION of what the same shipping company charges individuals!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 02:57:13 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 20, 2021, 02:43:39 amThe gripe (as I've heard it best expressed) is that even if the package is shipped all the way to say Los Angeles and through customs for free or under a subsidy, the USPS still gets it at that point and handles in-country routing and delivery. For that, the total cost is much less than I pay to ship the same package to my next door neighbor, although it will take less time. Same thing happens with packages to/from India. If I ship there, I get totally hosed on the postage, then it takes month to clear customs and they charge the recipient generously for storage. If they ship here via their normal cheap mail (at very low cost) I get the USPS guy coming to my door with a signature for a service equivalent to registered airmail. IIRC, this also used to happen with packages or letters from HK.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 08:00:48 am
content: I think Amazon only has warehouses in highly populated areas. There's none around here. Two of my last three Amazon purchases were delivered by the mailman, the other came in a big brown truck. I placed my last order on Monday and it was supposed to arrive tomorrow, but I got it yesterday.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 08:29:45 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 20, 2021, 02:22:57 amI'm sure it does. Here it is usually UPS, sometimes PostNL delivering the packages. Judging by the fact that Amazon FBA is about 4 EUR for such small items, pf course they get the preferential treatment.Quote from: blueskull on March 20, 2021, 02:43:39 amThey often use Cainiao Super Economy, which is Alibaba's own shipping service. I'm sure a lot of it is in 30ft containers on a ship, that's why they have 30-50 days delivery times.Quote from: thm_w on March 19, 2021, 09:17:27 pmWhen I was a student at university, I regularly traded online. I was trading usually phone accessories, buying bulk on ebay and selling it on the local ebay equivalent. It was a nice income, paying more than the scholarship. Everything was in padded envelopes, and the only times I had issues with the shipping charges, when someone asked for collect-on-delivery. But they were paying for that, so no worries.Here is what really pisses me off: Sending a letter, 20-50 grams is 3.1 EUR, worldwide.If I place a PCB in the said letter, it starts at 13 EUR.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2021, 11:42:34 am
content: its becoming very expensive to send cheap itemsI make some pcbs and components available at basically cost price for members of a society Im a member of ( MERG , see merg.org.uk), most of my recipients are in the UK and are now outside the EU. each kit I send costs £3.50essentially its now impossible to supply these customers, the postage is 4.50-6 euros , and now require 10 minutes in the post office while loads of details are keyed in and two large labels are stuck to the package ( this is a challenge in itself ) . This is so the UK customs can just scan a barcode to clear itin reality its a huge hassle and the costs make it impractical , If i make a mistake or have to send a replacement , I can loose more then the value of the package . Also the risk of UK VAT being added and custom clearance fees, make it risky for my recipients to use me .Its a crock of sh$$

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2021, 09:39:16 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 20, 2021, 08:29:45 amHere you can fill the required info on a web form, print the barcode and put stamps on it. So it still cost 2.95€ worldwide for economy 50 g letter with a pcb in it.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2021, 03:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: Nauris on March 28, 2021, 09:39:16 amI've spent a considerable amount of time on the PostNL website, and I concluded it to be an absolute trash.So not all tarrifs are on it, there are extra categories for letters. The cost is 4.6 EUR to 10 EUR for this, depending on destenation.Or I have to register a business account and then the price is much lower. I mean, much much lower. It starts at 1.5 EUR for a 30g package, not letter.The only requirement is to send 50 packages per year. But I would be better off with sending about 30 packets to Mr. Dev Per NULL than using the regular price.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2021, 04:02:16 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 18, 2021, 11:39:50 pmI think one of your countrymen here on the EEVBlog forum, @Tonyalbus, came up with a gem of a phrase the other day, which fits this situation so well:"usually when i get screwed that hard i am also kissed..."