sous vide cooking - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2021, 01:30:05 am
content: Who here uses a sous vide machine for cooking? I have purchased one a few months ago back in november and I have been using it extensively since it got too cold for pleasant BBQ operation.I do longer cook times (~6 hours) for most things at the lowest temperature possible. I have a vacuum sealer (the one with the lid you close over a bag so you can seal gravy and soups with cheap bags) and a sous vide machine that is made of stainless steel with a internal circulator.For the post cook I have just been using a standard plumbers torch to roast the skin a little but I have thought to buy one of those catalytic heater things to broaden the flame (torch attachment), i.e. a searzall.For thicker cuts of meat (i.e. 2 inch) I will fire up the BBQ to maximum temperature and sear the meat on the grill rather then attempting to sear it with a torch.. a plumbers torch does not do justice here, I feel that it has the strongest effect with a pork tenderloin.It has not displaced the other kitchen implements though, I see little point in trying to make chili, strogonoff (a complex operation if you do the addition of ingredients according to estimated cook time) or corned beef in it, so I still use a electric crock pot for those things.I repackage the meat I buy with spices ready for immersion cooking and freeze it most of the time now.I don't think its ultra good to the point that I don't want to do occasional air roasts either.. pretty decent though and worth the money I think. But, the important part is decreased effort in getting excellent quality food, so I have easily paid it off since there would be no way I would have the energy to cook as much as I do without it.. there would be pizza and other takeout.The idea of making my own long storage time pasteurized mayonnaise is also appealing but I have not tried it yet because the normal product is good and the price is also good.

author: HerbTarlek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 01:56:17 am
content: I use my sous vide machine pretty regularly for boneless skinless chicken breasts. I dry season them, and then vacuum seal two or three in a bag and freeze. When it's time to make supper, I throw a (thawed) bag or two into the bath for 90 minutes, and then I heat a cast iron pan with some vegetable oil so that I can sear each side for a 2-3 minutes.I like sous vide because it's virtually impossible to overcook protein. The downside is that almost every cut of meat needs to be seared or put under the broiler for a few minutes at the end of cooking, in which case, why wouldn't I just cook it that way in the first place and save myself the hassle?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 02:05:41 am
content: thats why i go for the torchi feel like its more useful when I have low energy to be honest

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 02:09:31 am
content: Anova claim to have sold 100M of their sous vide machines, so I guess sous vide cooking is pretty commonplace now. We use our machine quite a lot, although our commonest use for it is the controlled thawing of frozen foods. Circulating 22C water over a bag with the food in massively speeds up defrosting, without applying any high temperatures.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 02:31:28 am
content: i usually leave it under the faucet but its pretty wasteful. I think putting it in a metal bowl under running water so the water overfills the bowl and drains off the side is pretty fast, but that is something you need to keep your eye on (i.e. clean the kitchen or something).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 03:10:57 am
content: I made my own sous-vide setup about 7 years ago, based on a crockpot controlled by a PID controller.Eventually I found I only really liked chicken prepared that way - and fish - but I can poach fish faster in a big vat on the stove... In other words, I don't really think the process is as much of a "God's gift to cooking mankind" as it might appear at first, even if it definitely does have its uses - Nowadays, I use it mostly to make fruity sauces for ice cream etc., when I can make a big enough batch to make it worthwhile!

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 03:30:48 am
content: My wife and I have a Shaffer-Berry brand sous vide machine. It looks like an oversized stick blender that you hang on the side of a large pot.I cut a U shaped notch in the alloy pot lid to accommodate the machine and reduce heat loss.We have tried a huge number of different things in it.I have never been a fan of chicken breast in the past because I could never get it cooked properly without it becoming dry.This is where sous vide excels.We make up stuffing of various sorts: Dried fruit and seeds, Cheese and bacon, Herb and onion, etc.Stuff the chicken breasts. We usually do a dozen at a time. Individually vac pack them.Sous vide for about 3 hours at 67degC. Freeze them for future use.When you want a quick and delicious chicken dish, thaw one of the packs.Flash off in a hot pan with 50% butter 50% olive oil.Another favourite is Lamb Shanks (Knuckles).Vac pack the lamb shanks with some fresh rosemary and some red wine jus.Sous vide for about 6 hours at 70degC.Serve straight out of the bag or put them in a very hot oven for 15-20 minutes to add some crispy texture.Sous vide chicken drumsticks, then a very hot oven for 15 minutes to crisp up the skin.The possibilities are basically endless.We always make multiple packs and freeze the extras. This means you can have a restaurant quality meal any day of the week – very rewarding, particularly after a hard day at work.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 04:32:32 am
content: ehh you know with chicken the thing is you need to work on it with some salt and buttermilk etc. Half of the reason I think why people like sous vide chicken so much is because it ends up being brined by the seasoning salt while its cooking for 6 hours. I have not tried chicken sous vide yet, partially because I really like what the 'optigrill' appliance, oven or bbq does with the breasts. Maybe I will give it a go tomorrow since I marinated a bunch of boneless thighs.I made chicken in a crock pot once and it was like the worst thing ever (that was ~14 years ago and I have not boiled chicken other then for soup (dispose of the meat) since then!!), so I am really apprehensive about sous vide chicken. For a soup that is supposed to have chicken in it I still grill it first then cut it up into the soup later when its done lol.. but I am one of the few people that prefers chicken that acts like real tough jerky (over cooked) or made into tough cotlets.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 04:44:50 am
content: Boiled chicken can turn stringy and horrible... and most crock pots / slow cookers are not "slow" enough nowadays, for food safety reasons, so they end up boiling things too, even though they are not really meant to reach the boiling point.The sous vide process makes chicken breasts (and fish... e.g. cod fillets) into something surreal/sublime. But you can achieve nearly the same results just by operating the slow cooker / crockpot at the same temperature as a sous vide bath... this requires a better controller, and a probe to dip in the food - but that's how I do most of my "sous vide" these days. No bags, wasted plastic, etc.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 04:57:22 am
content: the nice thing about the bag is you can separate out the meats and do a few different seasonings at the same time. I don't know how well a crock pot will work unless you put a circulator in it though?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 04:59:40 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 21, 2021, 04:57:22 am^ This

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 05:06:31 am
content: seriously, its like the only way to get some weird stuff in, like lemon pepper, without disturbing everyone

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 05:12:43 am
content: can you do chicken and mushrooms in the same bag or is it gonna mess up with temperatures (have not experimented with veggies yet)?. The idea of doing some kinda marasala in the bag with the chicken is very appealing actually. Not sure how good it will be without the searing though. its only interesting if i can eliminate the frying pan to make something half decent, frying the mushrooms is a bastardOr, can I add baked mushrooms to raw chicken and sous vide that so I am just dealing with a baking tray to clean?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 05:23:50 am
content: I have done numerous curry dishes for example, however it is important to follow the usual flavour development processes, such as toasting your spices first and searing the meat first.If you develop all your flavours first, then sous vide, it will be a winner.I am no chief, just an enthusiastic amateur foodie…

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 08:41:34 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 21, 2021, 04:57:22 amI sometimes fill it with water and put glass jars or use plastic bags in it when this kind of multi-flavour project is on the agenda. Because the heating elements surround the pot completely, the heat distribution inside is near perfect. If I cover the whole thing with a towel, it hardly uses any power to keep the temperature constant (whether or not using nothing / glass / bags).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 08:42:59 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on February 21, 2021, 05:23:50 amDo you find that vegetables have to be done quite hot in the sous-vide to get tender?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 02:22:49 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 21, 2021, 08:42:59 amIn general the hottest sous vide recipes are the ones for fruits and vegetables. The hottest I've cooked any meat is in the high 70s, but I've cooked vegetables at 95C.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 06:54:10 pm
content: sounds like I need to put a regulator on the crock pot so I can turn it into a vegetable sous vide and keep the meat in the better regulated one for dual temperature cooking at the same time. My PCB reflow oven I built seems to work good (my only recommendation is use a industry brand pid and something like a panasonic SSR), then to make sure the addon you add is grounded well to the chassis (recommend industrial experience so you know how to do it right).I wonder if you can extend the shelf life of something like asparagus by washing it and vacuum sealing it carefully after you buy it in the store prior to cooking? (a problem vegetable for me). Do you need to like bake or partially dehydrate something like an asparagus when its raw after washing from the store prior to vacuum sealing or is patting it down enough? I got smelly asparagus too many times so I don't like buying it anymore.blanching maybe?https://www.foodsaver.ca/en_CA/blog/archive/2015/january/how-to-vacuum-seal-broccoli-and-other-cruciferous-vegetables.htmlMy vegetables have been limited to only things that store well for a long time for a while now.. its getting a little old*made new thread about vacuum sealing

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 07:22:16 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 21, 2021, 08:42:59 amYes, quite a bit hotter.I often cheat with stews and curry - I cook the vegetables first.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 10:37:22 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on February 21, 2021, 07:22:16 pmYes, I've had to do that too - i.e. start with the veg in the "super regulated crockpot" set to 90+ C, then drop back to the 70's meat temperature and add the meat. Works extremely well!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 10:56:39 pm
content: Here's a picture of my setup. The controller is a standard PID controller, with a SSD relay, built into a box with outlets so it can control pretty much any device with a heater, including a crockpot but absolutely not limited to that! Ever see an egg getting boiled with a heat gun?The idea was that the control box is mounted permanently somewhere under the kitchen cupboards so things could just get plugged in and the probe dropped in, but I've found it more convenient to keep it "portable".

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 12:00:14 am
content: Nice setup.I like the idea.

author: HerbTarlek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 06:28:41 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 21, 2021, 05:06:31 am*looks at his 8 oz. bag ofPepper and Lemon Seasoning*...uhh, what's weird about that? It's delicious on chicken.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 07:39:43 am
content: some people loathe the stuff

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 11:17:59 pm
content: I tried chicken thighs boneless for 3 hours in sous vide 165 and then pan fried with planko bread crumbs and egg. I think it was over cooked. Pretty decent but I don't know what I was eating, it reminded me of a eastern european ground beef cotlet but it was solid chicken and it looked like fried fish???normally these panko things come out better. It was plenty crispy but you go from a crisp to soft meat and its like what the hellnot inedible or bad but just weird, i prefer it standard fried.Could I eat it often? yes. Worth the effort vs conventional fried chicken.. no. if it was priced the same would I get it? occasionally.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 12:10:23 am
content: IME chicken sous vide works best with chicken breast. My favourite is - meat in 0.75% salt brine (so salt = 0.75% of total mass water + meat) overnight, drain, in the bath with preferred spices (salt/pepper works for simple folks like me) at 70C for ~3h (not critical, just "long enough"). This was a huge hit with guests in summer 2013 according to my notes!(Just pour the wine liberally and repeatedly!)

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 12:37:29 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 25, 2021, 12:10:23 am"Ad libitum" is everyones favorite wine

author: hvna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 11:57:06 am
content: I have a chart with a lot of SV temps for different meats from a place I used to work at. I'll post it here if anyone wants to give it a look. Let me know if you have questions or need help interpreting it.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 01:42:23 pm
content: Quote from: hvna on February 26, 2021, 11:57:06 amThat looks interesting. What's up with the high initial temperatures?

author: hvna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 03:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 26, 2021, 01:42:23 pmThey're for pasteurizing. This was for a large hotel with a massively detailed HACCP plan so everything had to be accounted for. In my experience, the short times that the food items are exposed to the high temps don't change the overall texture in the finished product and has the added benefit of remaining stable for much longer periods of time.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 04:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: hvna on February 26, 2021, 03:37:35 pmHow can 5 minutes at a high temperature pasteurize anything? The temperature is too low for pasteurization, and 5 minutes won't heat anything more than the very surface of the food to any significant temperature.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 06:19:02 pm
content: Perhaps it "does something" to surface microbes (e.g. from storing/handling the food)?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 12:33:15 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 26, 2021, 04:49:19 pmthe "bad stuff" is on the surface

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 02:09:47 am
content: ...Why is there a difference between "Ambient" and "Internal" temperatures? Aren't they exactly the same, in a functional sous vide setup?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 02:13:13 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 27, 2021, 02:09:47 amEventually they will match, but do you leave the food in the tank long enough for the temperatures to even out to that very last degree?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 02:20:54 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 27, 2021, 02:13:13 amOne of the cool things about the sous vide process, is that the results aren't super sensitive to the length of time things spend in the bath (bounded on either side by "not cooked" and the other by "ridiculously long time"). I have never measured the internal temperature of anything I've sous-vided, I've just assumed the internals would have reached the ambient temperature by the time I took them out - I've experimented with 24 and 48 hour time periods... it doesn't destroy the food, but it does change the texture over time, perhaps to something you don't like...I can see, though, that in a restaurant environment you want to know the earliest you can take them out, and also the latest you can leave them for reasons of hygiene as well as food quality considerations.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 02:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 27, 2021, 02:20:54 amCook times are not critical, but you can't just cook and cook. The sensitivity to cooking times depends on the thing you are cooking. Some things are happy with massively over long cook times. Others are pretty much destroyed, usually by falling to pieces, if you give them more than an hour or two beyond the optimal cooking time.

author: hvna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 05:01:41 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 27, 2021, 02:20:54 amThe real key is consistency. Standardized times and temps are purely so the product is consistent. The place wasn't the type to worry about speed, there was a very large staff and I worked in a dedicated protein processing team, and therefore never worried about speed, only quality.

author: hvna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 05:04:47 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 27, 2021, 02:09:47 amNo. Although in a small household setup, you're probably only cooking one or two small steaks, this list was written with large cuts of meat (whole striploins, tenderloins, racks) in mind, and therefore one or two degrees can take hours to reach.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 08:34:20 pm
content: Quote from: hvna on February 28, 2021, 05:04:47 pmSo in a professional environment, you would actually stick probes into the center of the meat too? - I guess that's the only way to be sure it gets cooked through...

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 08:45:25 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 28, 2021, 08:34:20 pmThat would puncture the vacuum sealed bag. The temperatures are tightly controlled, so time is all you need to get consistent results.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 09:40:46 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 28, 2021, 08:45:25 pmThe shape of the object, and the temperature it has when inserted, seem difficult to control to get the core within 2C just based on time.

author: hvna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 10:51:36 am
content: Quote from: coppice on February 28, 2021, 08:45:25 pmWe would actually puncture the bag. We would use thermocouples with extremely small thermometer needles. You place a small piece of insulating foam in the sealed bag, a strip of duct tape over top, and then puncture the bag through the foam. Duct tape over the top of the needle as well. Think of a doctor putting an IV in, similar idea.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 03:52:28 pm
content: I have always thought that the "vacuum" inside the bag is of secondary importance compared to temperature control.I've successfully sous-vided stuff inside glass jars, etc. - no vacuum in sight!

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 05:24:33 pm
content: I think there's an interesting alternative to sous vide now. Miele is selling dielectric heating ovens, because of the high penetration depth this should be able to get single serving boneless pieces of meat to a consistent temperature much faster than sous vide, still without overcooking the edges.I'm not paying 8000 Euros to play with it, but it's still amazing they were able to put dielectric heating in a consumer device.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 06:58:11 pm
content: That sounds interesting, so you are essentially running an electric current through the item to be heated?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2021, 07:17:49 pm
content: They put a couple kV between two insulated plates opposite the food at 6.78 or 13.56 MHz (I can hear the HAM's groan). Displacement currents heat the food.