DSO choice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jdev99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 09:06:55 pm
content: I am in the market for a small desktop DSO, my old Hameg is too bulky for the space I have.My projects are usually audio amplifier related (not digital) repairing SMPSupplies and I just started with small, basic Arduino projects.I have a £300.00 budget and only want to buy from UK (or EU) suppliers for warranty reasons.I am not sure how critical the memory length is for my applications or many of the other specifications on DSO's.I have never used a DSO before, but will study the model that I will buy, thoroughly before using it.I have a standalone signal generator , so do not need a scope with these functions.Here is a list of what I could source via Google (with basic specs), which one would you recommend (or any other)?£198.48 Hantek DSO5102P 100MHz 1Gsa/S 40K£194.00 Hantek DSO4072C (1 Channel Arbitrary/Function Waveform Generator) 70MHz 1GSa/s 40K£248.00 Hantek DSO4102S (1 Channel Arbitrary/Function Waveform Generator) 100MHz 1Gsa/S 40K£198.48 Hantek DSO5072P 70MHz 1GSa/s 40K£276.00 Siglent SDS1072CNL 70MHz 1GS/s 40K£271.20 Rigol DS1052E 50MHz 1GSa/S 16k-1M ?£289.00 RIGOL DS1072U 70MHz 500MSa/s 1M£235.99 Uni-T UTD2102CEX 100MHz 1Gsa/S 25K£209.00 Uni-T UTD2025CL 25MHz 250MSa/s 25K£225.00 ATTEN ADS1062CAL 60MHz 1GSa/s 18KThank you for all replies.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 09:12:04 pm
content: With just a little bit more you can have the rigol ds1054z, which is much better than others you have list.https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1054z.htmhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-RIGOL-DIGITAL-OSZILLOSKOP/dp/B01LNY8CL0https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.htmlBuy plain and hack to get all features for free

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 09:24:04 pm
content: Yeah, that price bracket is just below the current generation low end scopes, so I would also save up just a bit and go for the next step up, generally bigger displays, more memory, more waveform update rate, etc. I also think 4 channels are worth the expense over 2, as it's not usually a ton. The DS1054Z is a standby recommendation, but something like the SDS1202X-E or SDS1104X-E are solid choices in the same general price bracket and any of those three will be a notable step up from the ones you've got listed.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2018, 09:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on August 29, 2018, 09:24:04 pmThe DS1054Z is still unbeaten when it comes to bang for buck. The Siglents are more capable, but also more expensive.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 05:48:20 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 29, 2018, 09:51:13 pmSince it is hackable the GW Instek GDS-1054B is probably a better buy (and IIRC slightly cheaper) but still outside the price bracket of the OP.

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 05:55:44 am
content: i recently went through this and ended up springing the extra bit for the siglent SDS1202X-Eit has a fair bit more grunt than most of the cheapies and is reasonably pleasant to use.

author: jdev99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 12:05:37 pm
content: Wow, I did not know those suggestions of mine were so poor, so I will have to increase the budget.OK then, last question.Which one of the following 2, I want something that will last for the next 15 years, I am not sure if I will ever need 4 channels. The prices are very close, the Rigol includes ALL upgrades, but is still only 50MHz.Bandwidth Memory Channels Sampling Rate£362.26 Siglent SDS1202X-E 200 14M 2 1GSa/s£357.60 Rigol DS1054Z 50 24M 4 1GSa/sThanx again for the great advice.

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 12:17:36 pm
content: for me personally - the only reason i got a scope was the extra detail/resolution for seeing what is really happening.that meant the siglent SDS1202X-E - apparently its got a nicer UI speed aswell, I dont know.i use a cheaper logic analyzer when i want to track lots of channels.other people really like having the extra channels, so thats a call you will have to make, both of those scopes have fans and are good at what they do.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 12:27:40 pm
content: I don't think any of the low end scopes should be thought of as 15 year equipment. That depends on how they are used of course, but these are not the TEKs & HPs of yesterday. It is a different market.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 12:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: jdev99 on August 30, 2018, 12:05:37 pmThe BW on the Rigol goes to 100MHz when you unlock it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 01:23:59 pm
content: As soon as you start using the SPI protocol with the Arduino, you will know why I bought the 4 channel DS1054Z. I had/have a perfectly good Tek 485 but it doesn't do any kind of decoding or advanced measurement. It does have bandwidth (350 MHz). And, yes, I have more than one logic analyzer. But the scope is right in front of me and I just want to see the framing and a packet or two. I don't want to decode "War and Peace".I think the new 4 channel Siglent SDS 1204X-E could become the hottest thing on the market if it were a couple of hundred dollars cheaper.You should search through the site, this topic comes up just about every other week. People's opinions of the various offerings haven't changed much.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-vs-rigol-ds1054z-advice/

author: jdev99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 01:30:08 pm
content: It seems like for my applications the DS1054Z will do the job.Order placed.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 02:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: jdev99 on August 30, 2018, 01:30:08 pmNow do a Google search for Riglol for help unlocking the higher bandwidth. The only valid option code is "DSER" even though it is not on the list. Yes, Riglol is spelled correctly.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 03:20:22 pm
content: Quote from: jdev99 on August 30, 2018, 12:05:37 pmYou mentioned Arduino so I'm going to say "4 channels good, 2 channels bad".The Rigol can beeasilyunlocked to enable all options including 100MHz.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 08:11:00 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 30, 2018, 01:23:59 pmWith the hacks that are appearing for the 1104X-E, it already is.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2018, 09:03:39 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 30, 2018, 08:11:00 pmIt's all about Siglent seeing things through, something they haven't always done in the past. Being a serious player is as much about proper support as it is about hardware.

author: jdev99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 06:42:50 am
content: Rigol UK have a special offer currently, with all options already included (well - maybe not the 100MHz), but still a good offer.https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscilloscope-p/ds1054z.htm

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:06:31 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 30, 2018, 09:03:39 pmOh yeah right.Pluses !

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:39:19 am
content: As you're in the UK, make an offer on this one:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/323280383145This is from Telonic who are the UK distributor of Rigol items, so not some hooky idiots. It's a new item and all options are unlocked other than 100MHz (which you can do with riglol). Rumor has it they'll go down to about £320I picked up a Tektronix TDS210 recently for £60 that needed a couple of new BNCs (£5) and probes (£12). That sort of thing is a good option if you want some cash left over.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 08:38:16 am
content: Quote from: jdev99 on August 30, 2018, 01:30:08 pmNot sure of any specific issues against given your posts, so an unlocked Rigol DS1054Z should do you quite well.FWIW, I have one of these and it does a bang-up-job as a general purpose scope IME (I've a Tek 2445B for higher BW, but it's missing the niceties of a DSO). Between the two, they do everything I need (FWIW, I don't have a need for BW over 100MHz 99% of the time).If I find this to change (not likely), I'll update my bench at that time. But not unless it's actually needed (much less expensive to stick with the lower BW models IME).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 01:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 31, 2018, 07:06:31 amYou don't feel support is important, or am I not understanding you?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 03:57:05 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 31, 2018, 07:06:31 amI think that's a little joke at Rigol.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 04:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 31, 2018, 03:57:05 pmat Riglol!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 04:23:13 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 30, 2018, 08:11:00 pmI haven't spent any amount of time looking but what little I did read makes the process seem a bit more complex than for the Rigol.Getting 200 MHz for the cost of the 1104X-E would be an all time bargain. Plus the improved UI...At the moment I can't quite justify another scope. I think I have a permanent application for the Rigol and, if it stays that way, the Siglent is up next.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 05:19:31 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 31, 2018, 04:23:13 pmMe too.I'm told we no longer need to get out the JTAG programmer and soldering iron but I haven't seen a simple guide (not that I'm following those threads very closely).Where's the "Siglent unlocking, step by step" thread? Show us how easy it is!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 05:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 31, 2018, 05:19:31 pmhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1774208/#msg1774208

author: gedong
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 05:35:57 pm
content: after reading and watching reviews of 1104X-E, i really want to get one.my local distributor sell it for $900i swear, last time i could get siglents product in aliexpress, but now they all gone, even the seller didn't response my message

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 06:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: gedong on August 31, 2018, 05:35:57 pmI'm sure one of the Siglent salesmen who post here saying that they only cost $500 will help you out.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 30, 2018, 08:11:00 pmimho... i dont think so... the hack requiring messing around with FW file format, and with heavily guarded DES encryption by Siglent, i guess one will have to use sweat and blood too, probably risk of bricking a scope, i dont know i havent follow the thread. but even if its "officially" hackable at some degree of ease, SDS1104X-E is still almost double the price of DS1054Z in ebay... you can choose between easily hacked to 100MHz at $369, or not hacked factory 100MHz at $599, or difficult to hack or risk of brick 200MHz at $599. competition is quite fierce and imho DS1054Z is still on the lead (price) and some other features such as sample memory.SDS1104X-E $599DS1054Z $368another aspect is programmability. there are few hints about we can download data points from siglent sds to PC, such ashereandhere(edit: wrong! its saved to usb stick, not directly to PC for (not so) real time automation) but no hard proof on it, nobody hasnt build and publish a PC software for siglent scope for usefull post processing such as deep length FFT etc. if anyone want to promote siglent scope as recommended scope, someone must put some additional value to it like rigol where few people have made some SW implementation...https://hackaday.com/2015/09/22/a-better-spectrum-analyzer-for-your-rigol-scope/http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rigol-bildschirmkopie/screenshots.htmhttp://www.soasystem.com/download/visadso/my 2cnts...Quote from: tv84 on August 31, 2018, 04:13:41 pmits not a mistake its not a joke. its an innovation in linguistics, i have an inside homer telling me thisif we based on product support, we have Keysight guy around here, go buy Keysight scope. Rigol do occasionally made FW upgrades but i guess they are too busy working at minimal margin (Siglent just doesnt get this or not interested in any way) trying to fulfill everybody's wishes, so they need to prioritize... my 2cnts

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 31, 2018, 07:18:11 pmBut... I've been assured 100% that it's as easy as a Rigol.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 07:57:50 pm
content: Indeed. The key is in there. The encrypted firmware is in there. I’ve watched that shit fall in seconds in the right hands.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2018, 08:03:31 pm
content: Quote from: jdev99 on August 30, 2018, 01:30:08 pmFor mostly audio stuff I thought you'd have gone for the 2CH Siglent, although a bit more £££,I thinkit's better at mV sensitivities.