Musk Has Cow - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:41:00 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Please see below the orginal source material for the Musk Broder contretemps regarding the range of the Tesla Model S EV.http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/automobiles/stalled-on-the-ev-highway.html?_r=1&http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drivehttp://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/--An interesting series of contentions, but Musk says the car never ran out of energy, and Broder says he had to call a tow truck to drag the vehicle aboard a flatbed because with no power the brake could not be disengaged. Broder also says the dash said "Car shutting down." Now clearly someone is flat out lying, you decide.“When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.”William Penn Adair "Will" Rogers 1879 - 1935Best RegardsClear Ether

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 04:48:51 pm
content: That reporter even looks like a slimy rat. I'd bet my nuts he seriously embellished the facts for his own personal gain.Been in a few Teslas, worked on many EVs. Sure there's a way to go, but that reeked of a biased story.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 10:54:06 pm
content: Old news by this point. I think regardless of whether the car actually died or not, a lot of his story didn't match the data. Either the data is flawed, or the reporter is... and given the fact that others have made the same trip successfully, I'm more inclined to blame the reporter.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 10:39:25 am
content: I'd be inclined to blame the reporter... and whoever bribed (or ordered) him to lie to make Tesla EVs look bad. Which is most likely what happened.Incidentally, you know that a court case in the USA a couple of years ago, established that US media (TV, newspapers, etc) has no legal requirement whatsoever to tell the truth?I can probably dig up the reference if anyone refuses to believe this. It involved a reporter who'd been fired after refusing to lie in print as instructed by management. He sued for wrongful dismissal, and lost. Seems he had no legal grounds to complain about being told to lie, since the newspaper had no obligation to tell the truth.Something told to me by someone with some experience with the Media - Rule #1 of being interviewed: ALWAYS make your own independent recording of the interview. Because they routinely edit to deliberately distort the meaning.

author: SoftwareSamurai
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 04:29:56 pm
content: I think Elon has every right to "have a cow" over such blatant and skewed "reporting" such as this. It's one thing to report legitimate shortcomings of new technology, but to intentionally cripple the performance of the technology by doing stupid/unwise things with it, that's wrong and should be brought into the spotlight.IMHO, electric cars are the future, but today's electricity storage devices (i.e. batteries) are woefully inadequate, both energy-density wise and cost-wise, and cars based on them just can't quite complete with their gasoline forefathers on the free market. Perhaps some form of graphine "super capacitor" may change that (which I whole-heartedly look forward to), but until then we'll continue to be a fossil-fuel based society.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 07:41:37 pm
content: Actually, the truth probably lies somewhere between the two perspectives being presented.Lithium batteries do *not* like cold at all. Once the temperature gets below about 5 deg C, the rate of chemical reaction starts to really slow down in a lithium cell and attempts to extract normal amounts of power are met with significant voltage depression -- which most "smart" systems will respond to by suggesting that the battery is flat.Given the weather that prevailed during the test I would not be surprised if the range of the vehicle was very adversely affected.What's more, the recharge rates also fall significantly so it becomes very difficult to put a charge back into a lithium cell when it's very cold.Right now, EVs using lithium batteries are for more temperate climates.There's a good reason that nickel-cadmium batteries as a technology have survived so long in industries such as aviation -- where temperature extremes are the norm.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 12:50:59 am
content: Quote from: SoftwareSamurai on February 24, 2013, 04:29:56 pmI would not jump to conclusion so quickly. Electricity may be a solution we know today, but it may not the THE solution of THE FUTURE. New mean of delivering energy may yet be discovered making electricity as a form of energy delivery obsolete.Electricity is not particularly efficiency in doing a lot of things. For example, photon carries momentum, why not some direct photon creation and then momentum transfer to make a vehicle move. (By "direct" I means subatomic particle energy extraction; or by extraction of vacuum energy without first converting it to electrical energy) Even in the near term (besides Bio-fuel), perhaps manufacturing fuel directly from other forms of energy may present a better solution. But if we jump to conclusion, we wont find those solutions.Electricity and battery is so poor in efficiency today, it merely and barely beat out burning gas if at all. Factor in manufacturing of the battery, they are barely break even. And looking beyond the obvious, there are other cost...What kills more wild life? Destroying the field they called home (and replace it with solar panels), or polluting that field with all the unappetizing emission from natural gas?Across from DMV (a place where you renew your drivers license / car inspection type things in my state), it used to be a grass field with small wood and bushes of all sorts. It was full of deer and other small animals - nice and pleasant. Good place to walk when you are number 130 while they are serving number 30 still.Revisiting that field last month (time to renew my car sticker), not even a rabbit. Just dust and dirty under a field of solar panels. I am not sure what is causing more damage. What used to be a wonderful place to walk around (and wait) now looks awful besides being cold and life-less.Arrgh, perhaps I am just annoyed at having to sit in a room to wait rather then having a walk as I wait. Either way, those types of things are the secondary cost that few think about - like the birds that windmills killed...

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 02:11:05 am
content: I wouldn't link EV's to solar collection. There are other clean ways of generating electricity.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 02:47:23 am
content: Quote from: justanothercanuck on February 25, 2013, 02:11:05 amYup I agree. I just like being the counter point and playing the devil's advocate.