Is Lapp H05V-K suitable as a general purpose hook-up wire? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:44:20 pm
content: I'm about to dive in and buy 10x100m rolls of 0.75mm hook-up wire from Lapp Kabel, type H05V-K, but since I'll be stuck with my choice for some time (years!) I thought I'd better check with you guys first... I understand this cable is mainly intended for electrical installations in buildings, but it is a Class 5 flexible connector according to IEC 60228. Does anyone here use this cable, and if so, what do you think about it?

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:59:18 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 08:44:20 pmHi.... errr ... why? It appears to be pretty generic stuff. I could easily be missing something.You make the very obvious point that doing it this way gives you an inventory of one color / one size / one insulation type / one (solid or strand) / one temperature rating / one outer diameter / (on and on). The world is not that simple. My solution has been to pick the stuff up surplus, generally at things like flea markets rather than auction sites.I do undersand the problem from the manufacturer's side. A run of anything under a few thousand meters just isn't worth doing. Even at that length, it may still be a money looser in some cases. That's why places that *need* this color ... size .. yada yada yada do indeed get way more than they can ever use. Off it goes to the surplus market a few years later.Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:08:22 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 08:59:18 pmI assume this is "why" as in "why on earth would you buy that much cable in one go?". If so, the answer is pretty simple; I've found a source where I can buy new 100m spools of this for not much more than a 10m cut-off costs. I use a lot of 0.75mm (19/18 AWG) and a 10m piece of any one colour is likely to go in a month, leaving me stripping mains wire to get quickly something I can use for whatever it is I'm doing. I'm fed up with not having a ready supply to hand, and yes I do want TEN different colours (with one being yellow/green "earth" wire).If it's "why" as in "why do you even ask?", then the answer is also pretty simple; while 100m blue, brown, red and black will be gone quite quickly (probably the yellow/green too), the other colours see less use and it may well be a few years before the last piece of purple/grey/green/yellow/orange is gone. If it's not a "nice" cable to work with (good colours, good flexibility, good insulation) then I'll be annoyed!

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:19:32 pm
content: HiAround here, there are supply houses that will sell you any rational length of generic wire you desire. A 10M chunk will cost you. A 100M roll, not so much. There might be a small advantage to 10 spools at 100M each, but not a lot. Sounds like you go through enough wire on a regular basis that this isn't a very big stretch. I routinely buy wire in "several years worth" quantities. For specific jobs, the buy may be for a "several centuries worth" quantity. If so, that cost is passed on to the customer.Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:28:56 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 09:19:32 pmIt's because I want ten different colours. In fact, I'm tempted to include white & pink as well, for completeness.Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 09:19:32 pmYep, and this is indeed for a specific job: an interactive exhibition involving lots of push buttons, indicators, loudspeakers, sensors and actuators of various kinds - all of if installed inside hard to access spaces, often hidden and far from the controller. I have my own way of doing things and have found it useful to colour code connections, though I can understand those who go with "any colour as long as it's black" for cost saving reasons. At the end of the day though, this is not a large sum of money, and while I cannot charge the client directly for the purchase, it is 100% tax deductible. The reason I wanted an opinion of how "nice" this particular cable is is not that I'm worried about the cost, but the high blood-pressure suffered in years to come every time I look at it if it's no good.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:45:59 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 09:28:56 pmHiMost of our odd wire supplies came from an "all colors unique" requirement that got passed down to us. I must admit that the number of errors goes down when every wire has it's own specific color. Some of the stripe combos can get a bit weird though ...Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:59:04 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 09:45:59 pmYep, especially when the coloured strip doesn't twist around the length of the cable, and you have to rotate it to find the strip. I don't have a need for dozens of colours though, but for a simple example imagine a small controller playing different voice recordings depending on which of a handful of buttons is pressed. It is often necessary to mount stuff in weird places when working on pre-designed exhibition "stations", which have been designed to be visually appealing rather than easy to work inside, and it's possible that the controller ends up in a location where it is hard to see without opening the whole thing up again, with the wires for the buttons and the speaker running for some distance. It saves a lot of time - and potentially costly mistakes - if they are colour coded so I can include this already on the schematics, and in the reference photographs taken during installation.But I really don't want to have a lengthy discussion on the pros and cons of colour coding - and I don't think we disagree on anything of substance anyway - I really just wanted to hear a "yeah, been using H05V-K for years and it's a nice product, it will serve you well" or "no, don't buy the Lapp cable, the insulation is stiff/too thin/too thick" or "it has too few strands" or "the colours are murky and it's hard to tell the difference". "Stay away, it smells bad." "My colleague got a rash after using it". You get the idea.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:06:26 pm
content: HiI can't say I've ever seen wire from a real company that had a real QA system that was not good wire. I have not used these guys, but their product should be fine. There are a *lot* of outfits in the wire business.Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:13:08 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 10:06:26 pmI have. Poor colours is common. Low strand count too (Lapp do not list it for this cable, and I do not know what IEC 60228 Class 5 demands). Too little plasticiser in the PVC sheathing. Uneven, lumpy surface, which makes it difficult to pull through in crammed conduits.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 10:13:08 pmHiI have never seen any of that from anybody we have ever bought from.Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:31:14 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 10:16:31 pmYeah? It's not a cable, but look at the colours on these Yageo resistors:They're actuallyworsein real life, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between red, brown, purple and grey. Very disappointed with these since I'm now stuck with them for an eternity.Edit: And green, blue and black are also hard to identify reliably. Basically, they could just as well have been unmarked.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:32:19 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 10:13:08 pm~23 strands

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 18, 2016, 10:32:19 pmSweet! That sounds pretty perfect. Did you count them just now yourself?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:34:32 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 10:33:39 pmNo, I googled:http://www.sabcable.com/new_data/tech-euro_usa_cable_stranding.pdf

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 18, 2016, 10:34:32 pmAh, you mean that Interweb thing? Supposed to be good for finding information I hear. I should try it some time

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on June 18, 2016, 10:31:14 pmHiI've seen *plenty* of junk components. I've never seen the problems you describe on wire we've bought at work or stuff I've bought for here at home. I have seen junk inside various consumer electronics cables, but not in bulk wire.Bob

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 11:03:44 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 10:54:45 pmYageo is "junk"? News to me! I bought Yageo although they were 10x more expensive than the Chinese junk you can get on eBay (I've heard horror stories about blue coloured carbon composite resistors),specificallybecause I expected a quality product. I want precisely ONE set of E12 1/2W 1% TTH resistors, and I want to be able to restock the values that are used up withthe same brand and type. I like having them to hand, even though I use very few of most values. I'm like that.Edit: I actually threw out (as in in the trash) a complete E12 series I had bought on eBay and bought these instead - the eBay ones had legs the width of a human hair, and measurements showed them to be outside tolerance. I bet the power handling spec was off too, though they depressed me too much to do any testing. But the colours were more distinct than on the Yageos.