Nanoflowcell // Quant electric car - science the shit out of this please :) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 03:11:17 am
content: Since this seems to pop up once again here in Germany, I would be interested in the science behind flowcells, the actual viability and some scientific data on the claims by Quant and their Nanoflowcell.As far as I see it, they are claiming to get about 900 HP to the wheels or 662 kW. That is 165.000 Watts per motor and given their advertised low voltage system running at 48 Volts: What kind of conductor do you use to push 3000something continuous Amps through without overheating and without too much loss?Am I missing something?I tried to find some actually valid information about their proclaimed product, but all I could find was marketing wank and uncritical 'review' articles through the years. It does not seem like they moved anywhere with their product since 2015, but now the hype machinery is running again.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 03:59:26 am
content: Is that 48V DC or some sort of 48V three-phase? (still a lot of juice)

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 04:11:40 am
content: Must be peak rating... Or just marketing Wing Wang

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:22:38 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on January 29, 2019, 03:59:26 amThat’s where it gets very blurry around the edges. No real datasheet on anything.I found anarticle from 2014that seems to be one of the only actually critical ones around.And then there is also this:https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nanoflowcell

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:39:27 am
content: That's on the order of 5000 mm2cable (8 cm diameter) for 5 m of cable.In this case, is low voltage a safety benefit? I mean, whatever that wire touches will melt, so you don't get electrocuted, just covered in molten metal.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 11:02:38 am
content: A piece of round copper, 80 mm diameter, 5000 mm length would weigh 2.235 kg - looks about right. xDI guess you could get away with somewhat thinner cables if you have some kind of active cooling and do not care about 2-3 % of voltage drop, but that all smells pretty fishy to me.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 11:38:23 am
content: And at about $6 per kg of (raw) copper, that adds up quite quickly (remember, four motors).

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 11:49:03 am
content: I stumbled upon some more information. They claim to utilize a newly invented 45-phase-low-voltage-motor.Any insight on that?

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 12:02:45 pm
content: Does it really matter? Total power is the same. Total current is the same.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 12:35:11 pm
content: If I am not mistaken, for smaller cables the amps per mm2 rating is higher than with thicker cables, due to a better surface to volume ratio(?). The saving might be something like 10 - 15 % if I am not completely in the wrong here.45 x 10mm2 vs. 1 x 500 mm2 xD

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 12:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: frozenfrogz on January 29, 2019, 03:11:17 amIf you apply 662 kW of power to the wheels it's only to make doughnuts... For example a Tesla that's about 2 tons can do 0 to 100 km/h in 3s. That's:E= mv2/2= 2000*27.72/2= 771606 Joules in 3 seconds => 257 kW = 344 hp.In any case, peak power in a (powerful) car is only ever applied in very short bursts (except Jeremy in TopGear). If you drive a Tesla with a heavy foot it soon enters a reduced power mode due to overheating (both the motor and the battery overheat soon-ish), in this car it would be the same thing I guess.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 09:03:06 pm
content: From:https://www.nanoflowcell.com/what-we-do/prototyping/quantino-48volt/Emphasis is mine.When paired with the 48-volt low-voltage drive, the QUANTiNO 48VOLT achieves arange upwards of 1,000 kilometres on just a single tank– unheard-of, even for the very latest electric vehicles. The QUANTiNO demonstrated its extraordinary endurance from its very first durability test drive –14 hours nonstopwithout refuelling! When the test driver was forced to stop due to exhaustion after 14 hours and three minutes, theelectrolyte tanks in the QUANTiNO 48VOLT were still far from empty.MotorType: Three-phase asynchronous motorMaximum power (kW / hp): 80 / 108Maximum torque (Nm): 200Flow BatteryType: nanoFlowcell®Voltage (V): 48Rated current (A): max. 300Capacity (kWh): 85ConsumptionFuel: ElectricityEnergy consumption: 12 kWh / 100 kmTank volume (l): 2 x 95Range (km): >1,000Harmful emissions (g): 0What the hell does "electrolyte tanks far from empty" mean? So it's not battery powered? Or is that electrolyte inside the batteries, in which case it would be surprising if they were missing the electrolyte. Can't help but think of "Brawndo. It's what plants crave. It's got electrolytes!"Maximum power of 80 kW, but 48 V and max current of 300 A. Does not compute.Capacity of 85 kWh, but energy consumption of 12 kWh / 100 km also stinks, especially since after more than 1000 km "electrolyte tanks were far from empty".Tank volume 2 x 95 l? What is that in an EV?