Need help finding a tactile switch  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 10:44:17 pm
content: Hello!I've been looking around from popular big name brands and alibaba sellers to find a tactile switch that fits the requirements i described on the picture below. Unfortunately i might be overthinking it or just straight stupid but for the past month all i find is badly made websites or broken links to pdf catalogues, email support just says look at the catalogue and talking alibaba sellers is difficult to make them understand what i need.Anyone can help me point where to look or even better which model?My main problem is when i look at their catalogue pdf, about half of the switch models available does not say which switch can fit which cap. Or there is missing dimensions on the drawings...It's just basicly a SPST switch momentary that needs to feel smooth when pushing it, light click is ok but must feel not cheap and hard to press, with a LED inside.I was very close to find the perfect one (the one on the left in in the breadboard picture) but the light diffusion is so bad it hurts the eyes to look at it even when the LED is dimmed, oh and it clicks hard when pressing it down, not fun to use...The important measurements are shown in the picture.I looked at about 10 sellers on alibaba and also :- highly electric- e-switch- top up- shanpu- rjs electronics- well buyingThanks a lot for the help

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 11:14:17 pm
content: Alibaba?Try professionals like C&K:https://www.ckswitches.com/

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 11:15:38 pm
content: the switch in the photo is a Nidec LTM/LTR. but I think the keycaps are custom made.This is a nice keycap, but even with a suitable switch combination, the height is still 12mm.I'm sure you can find compatible switches if you look in China, but 3D printing would be a good way to go.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 11:42:43 pm
content: They're not the cheapest (though not the most expensive either), but take a look at the APEM Multimec line of tactile switches. I used them in a project, in large part because they exist with LEDs, and have a large selection of keycap styles,anddifferent length keycap extenders to raise the cap to the perfect height. I like the milky white caps and the black-with-clear-dot caps for backlighting with LEDs.In Europe, Reichelt.com has the Multimec 3F series at good prices (and more importantly for my application, where cost is a factor, you can add the LED yourself, which is what we did because APEM charges way too much for white LEDs), so we used those. I think the 5E series was a tad more expensive. But this was during Covid, so that may have impacted pricing.Anyhow, take a look athttps://www.apem.com/idec-apem/en_US/PCB-switches/Tactile-Switches/c/Tact_switches?page=1Each Multimec series' page has a list of compatible keycaps.Actually, you may want to flip throughhttps://blog.apem.com/en/page/brochure-mec-productsfirstThese are tactile switches, however, so may be clickier than you want. "Cheap and hard to press" is not really a thing: a button is too hard to press when it is not correctly selected for the application. All else held equal, big keycaps need buttons with higher force, small keycaps need lower force,even if the switch inside is the same size. The ideal force also depends on the weight of the device it's in (you don't want so much force that the device slides away), the application (tact switches are great for controls, but terrible for keyboards, for example), etc. So "cheap and hard to press" simply means it's a device with poorly selected switches, not necessarily poorly made switches!(The Multimec 3F are around 350g of force, so definitely intended for big keycaps, which is why the smallest cap they sell is 6.5mm diameter, but most are 9.5mm diameter and up.)If you really want smooth and not clicky tactile, look at actual keyboard keyswitches, like the venerable Cherry MX series and its brethren and clones. They're mostly around 60-100g of force.If you really want the feel of a computer mouse button, then you need to look at what they use, which is microswitches. But then you'll be entirely on your own as far as keycap design and illumination. These are also around 60-100g force.Don't forget that the lighter the force, the more accidental button presses you have. And light/soft switches can be perceived as "mushy", rather than the decisive crispness of tact switches.The other aspect you haven't mentioned is keytravel:how far the button moves when being pressed. Tact switches typically have 1mm travel or less. Mouse switches around 0.5mm (but the keycap is often a lever, so the actual travel varies). Keyboard switches are typically around 3mm. And other pushbuttons, like the ones for industrial control, are often 3-5mm.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 12:11:03 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 28, 2024, 11:42:43 pm1SS,1IS looks nice.https://www.apem.com/idec-apem/en_US/PCB-switches/MEC-switches-/1IS/c/1IS?page=1https://www.apem.com/idec-apem/en_US/PCB-switches/MEC-switches-/1SS/c/1SS?page=1

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 12:13:38 am
content: +1 to Tooki.APEM stuff is really nice.

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:31:29 am
content: Quote from: Benta on September 28, 2024, 11:14:17 pmI need a bit more help here please.I must look in the tactile section?https://www.ckswitches.com/product-selection/tactile/I see no caps at all, only switches and i don't understand how to know which cap i can fit on them.What do most manufactuer of switches like this assume we know when they just show the switch without any caps information?They seem to have a round black part at the center, the caps goes on top of it?The caps i previously tried here had a square hole to fit on a switch...How do i know which ones are not super clicky ?For example this one, where are the caps options?https://www.ckswitches.com/products/switches/product-details/Tactile/ILS/Is it only compatible with theses 6 caps in this pdf?https://www.ckswitches.com/media/2865/ils.pdfDo they assume we open every datasheet of each switch they list on the site?

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:42:04 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on September 28, 2024, 11:15:38 pmHow do you know it's nidec ltm/ltr?They look so similar to most of what i saw since the past month...Where did you find that cap from the picture you posted?All i see in the LTM LTR section are 7.5mm or bigger..https://www.nidec-components.com/e/product/detail/00000327/#

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:44:28 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on September 29, 2024, 12:11:03 amSo yeah again, where are the caps options and dimensions?

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:48:32 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 28, 2024, 11:42:43 pmI really must be blind or something...I do not see any caps and i even end up on pages with missing images... like this page:https://www.apem.com/idec-apem/en_US/PCB-switches/MEC-switches-/Multimec%E2%84%A2-3E/c/Multimec_3E/listing?page=1&sort=relevancewhere do you see the corresponding caps?

author: Nrkb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 04:45:45 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 28, 2024, 11:42:43 pmKeyboard switches would not work at all, just too big for my measurements needs.I have tried many switches through my life that had a light feel without any problems using them but i dont know how much g force they were. Travel length isnt important. It's not really for fast usage like a keyboard or anything.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: Nrkb on September 29, 2024, 03:48:32 amIn my quoted message above, if you click the first link, and then click whatever series interests you, for example the 3E, then it shows a simple text list of caps. See screenshots.You can search for one, or see the full list of caps at:https://www.apem.com/idec-apem/en_US/PCB-switches/MEC-switches-/c/MEC_switches?page=1Remember how I said this, above?Quote from: tooki on September 28, 2024, 11:42:43 pmI said that because it gives you a good overview of their keycap shapes. They seem to mostly push the Multimec 5 series, so they're what's displayed in that brochure, but the 3 series is well-supported, and in the full list of caps, you'll see many caps that exist with and without an "S" at the end, for example 1D and 1DS. In those cases, the "S" version is usually for the Multimec 5 series, while the version without S is for the Multimec 3F. The exception is the "1S" series, which is for the Multimec 3F. (The version for the 5 series is 1SS.)See also:https://www.apem.com/medias/Selection-Guide-2016-mec-pcb.pdfandhttps://www.apem.com/medias/MEC-Selection-Guide-2019.pdf(Again, just delete final "S" from 5-series caps to get the corresponding 3F-series cap.)Yes, APEM would be smart to make it easier to get an overview of everything, and of what matches what. Kind of like an old-school catalog, maybe. But nonetheless, once you've figured out how to navigate their information, the products are superb.P.S. Looking at the caps, it looks like the caps for the 3F series also fit the "Illumec 4F" series, which if I am understanding correctly, looks the same from the outside, but is not a tactile switch. It might be closer to what you want in terms of feel. I've never used them.