Datasheet Pirates. Is there any way to stop these fools? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: philbx1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 11:54:07 am
content: Hi all,Just a quick message and nostalgic thought of when the internet in the past was allabout people actually helping others.Just searched for a datasheet on a transitor, and as usual came up mostly with bogus sitesoffering some form of membership and payment to actually see these datasheets.Now after lost time searching I'm wondering how we could affect these 'Datasheet Pirate' idiots and their stupid ploys...

author: VIPR
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 01:25:55 pm
content: I always go straight to eitherwww.alldatasheet.comorwww.datasheetarchive.com. If I can't find what I am looking for there then I might go peck around the manufacturers website for awhile. If I still can't find what I am looking for I generally decide it is not worth my time looking further because the part is either very rare and having very little documentation or is an ASIC that was designed for a specific application and thus there probably is no public documentation available even though those Google searches may reveal something promising until you are confronted with the "buy a membership here" thing that you describe.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 01:43:27 pm
content: if the site ask to register or payment, i'll click the "x" button top right.

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 03:05:57 pm
content: I hate those sites. Especially the ones that somehow grab anything that looks like a component part number and when you go there, there's no listing for what you're after!

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 03:17:02 pm
content: Usually I go straight to datasheetcatalog.com. No annoying popus or membership or whatever.If I can't find what I'm looking for there I try to find the manufacturer and only do a Google search as an absolute last resort.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 03:21:24 pm
content: octopart.com, and if one needs to resort to google, adding filetype:pdf helps prune most of the crap out

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 06:06:45 pm
content: This pinned topic on datasheets in the Beginners section should be useful.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=14.0

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2011, 11:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: hissyfet on March 12, 2011, 11:54:07 amThe internet is dumb - you need to manipulate it to get results - can sometimes be VERY tedious. Tell me what datasheet you need, and I guarantee you I will find it for you, and post a link here.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 01:59:09 am
content: Sometimes if you can track down the filename for a datasheet you want (from old urls that are now bad or from sites that have the file but want to sell it). You can then google that filename and find the file hosted somewhere else.Works quite well for service manuals.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 02:20:34 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 13, 2011, 01:59:09 amAgreed. There has rarely been anything I couldn't find - I am one determined, focussed guy, and I'm stuffed if some silly collection of networked computers is gonna flummox meIf you can't be bothered, pass the filename or item description my way. I GUARANTEE I will find it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 11:11:28 am
content: I find the best way to find data sheets is to follow the part numbe with filetype:pdf in Google.Click on the link below for an example:http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=74HC14+filetype:pdf&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 01:08:42 pm
content: yes lately I've found it easier to go to the manufacturers website although alldatasheets.com seems to come tops on search results these days. There was a time I was really fed up with these pirates. some websites should not be allowed on the net

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 02:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 01:08:42 pmI agree, but how do you propose to stop them?The internet is almost organic - it has evolved and grown; it is not some private organisation, it is free and open.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 03:37:23 pm
content: sadly you can't reguklate the internet, the companies making the parts could stipulate that information about their parts cannot be sold in any way but by themselves but then what do they care ?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 03:45:35 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 01:08:42 pmYes, a simple copyright notice stating that the owner grants permission for the datasheet can be redistributed but only free of charge, then taking the pirates to court.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 03:51:03 pm
content: I can't see why any manufactuere is happy for people to make money on others with their information. It is basically piracy

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 05:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 03:37:23 pmSadly? You HAVE to be joking. Why would anyone want it regulated, and have all our freedoms removed and/or controlled by some big corporations? Seriously, you need to get educated in all things GNU, Stallman and freedom of speech - I wouldn't want the 'net your way, thanks.Also, how can charging for FREE datasheets be "piracy"?1/ They were free initially, and if you're stupid enough to PAY for them, that's your problem.2/ "Piracy" is such a totally incorrect usage of a word which implies the taking over of a ship, murdering, raping of women and theft of the items on the ship. In what way is this analogous to copying things? "Piracy" is a term used in order to stir up drama and fear, over-dramatising what is in fact actually NOTHING LIKE what happens with pirates!LOL!Back to the point; this cannot be "piracy", as they're free.Never laughed so much!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:06:12 pm
content: complete free range has it's issues too. I've seen a huge drop in "net" quality of the last few years. doing and finding anything has become ever harder. so anyone can buy any amount of domains they don't need just to resell them, anyone can send all the spam they want, the list is endless

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:08:52 pm
content: I mean in the name of freedom of speech a terrorist can insult us in the worst possible way while living freely in this country and claiming benefits, yes I'm refering to the bloke that burnt a poppy, who earns what I earn but I pay 2/3 his wages. If that's what feeedom of speech is well good luck to us all

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:21:15 pm
content: Piracy is TOTALLY the wrong word for the copying and sharing of digital works, and CERTAINLY for... data sheets?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:25:05 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 13, 2011, 06:21:15 pmWell say you made a film or wrote a book and decided to make it freely available. Would you be happy if I came along, made a copy of it and started charging people for it ? I call that piracy of a form, ok the manufacturers don't sell the datasheets why should anyone else.I used to be ablwe to google a part number + datacheet and instantly get onto the MANUFACTURERS website and download it from the legitimate source up to date and free of charge. But not any more. now it is almost easier to know who made the part and go to their website and get it than googling for it

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 06:25:05 pmIf you're looking for practical solutions instead of things to moan about, Google have just introduced the ability to hide specified domains from your search results...

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:38:32 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 06:25:05 pmYou're totally missing the point (don't worry, most people do). Forget the forum, forget the internet, forget copying things... close your eyes, and think about exactly what image the word "pirate" conjours up...It's a nonsense word, hyped for the benefit of capitalist MPAA/RIAA fat cats, to make the act of downloading a film seem morally equivalent to rape and murder. Don't believe me? I suggest you go hunting for Richard Stallman lectures - the guy is a total legend (literally) and a genius.If I had a film and you copied it? Do you think I would lose sleep worrying over a minority percentage who will ALWAYS rip a DVD or download warez? I'd rather spend my energy improving my software or writing a new screenplay. It's an occupational hazard - you can either factor it in, or spend the rest of your life getting into a rage about it. Let 'em "pirate" the datasheets, seriously, get over it.PS: MANY, MANY people will download a film or software and then buy it after the fact anyhow. There have been numerous studies and experiments which categorically show this to be the case. The people who download the stuff but don't pay for it are likely never to have bought it ANYWAY, so where is the loss? Seriously, it is not an issue, it is just a fuss and drama made to incriminate everyone - "guilty until proven innocent". BS! I say download my film if you like - I hope you enjoy it, and if your conscience feels like it is a good production, then make a donation or buy it. If you didn't like it, then that's okay with mePeople are SO ignorant of how copyright should/shouldn't work etc, and "intellectual property law". Seriously, Google Richard Stallman - he made it his life's mission to lecture on these topics, of which he is an aged scholar. You could really benefit from his deeper knowledge.PPS: How is it possible to "pirate" free things?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 06:57:59 pm
content: Well going by correct definitions their not pirates. Just a nuisance. As i said i usually end up on alldatasheets.com or the manufacturers own website and have learnt to miss the pay ones. At the end of the day they are just a bloody nuisance but they are still a nuisance. everywhere you go these days people are trying to charge you for the stupidest things be they real things or so called services or software/data. It's just a pain in the ass. I'm sick of having to dodge pay for paking everywhere I go, sick of downloading programs advertised as "free to download" which is obvious and then after installing it finding they want my money after they implied they didn't. Sick of people trying to sell me datasheets. sick of being charged for a bill (which arrives with plenty of free junk mail) just sick of people trying to screw me for money. I may know how to advoid it etc but still it's a bloody nuisance. There is no more peace in life anymore, as soon as you walk out of the door people want money for stupid things, come home and try and get on the net and it starts again. Geez you even get charged to pay bills these days !!!Well rant over !

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 07:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 13, 2011, 06:57:59 pmLol! Have a cuppa tea!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 07:02:27 pm
content: Actually I, am gonna do just that

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 07:14:24 pm
content: The Internet is already regulated, people go down for copyright violation all the time.Although I agree with open source, I think charging for free data sheets is bad and needs to be stopped.I only download data sheets from the original manufacturers because it's the only way to ensure I've got the latest version.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 07:22:09 pm
content: well breaching of copyright and other illegal things done on the internet are prosecutable as crimes in their own rights. Unfortunately the internet can make it harder to get hold of those responsable as it's a worldwide thing. I think the most notorious being some of those dodgy porn sites with underaged stuff and the like on it. They make themselves hard to trace or work from countries where it is hard to hold them accountable.As for the nuisance stuff not a lot can be done. There really should be a trading standards like body for the net. I mean if software is made to look free but is not they should be made to advertise the price and many more instances like that. The internet is ever more advert driven and as we learn to avoid the adds more sneaky methods are used. At the end of the day you get what you pay for. Often paying up front just makes life easier

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 09:54:13 pm
content: I don't call it piracy. I call it theft. And I call those doing it thieves. See, it is that simple, no need to get agitated about the use of the term piracy.And interestingly it is always the thieves making a big fuzz of how it is called.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 13, 2011, 09:54:13 pmHow can you "steal" something that doesn't even exist - have you tried? Good luck with that. "Fuzz"? lol(I know what you meant, it just sounds funny). Who's agitated about the words? If you want to completely miss the point (yet again) and haven't the common sense to consult your brain, and work out what a "pirate" is, then noone can help you.Here, let me put this into pictures - even you can work THIS out:Pirate:Not pirate:Cat:Piracy - ODD, not a single mention of downloading stuff or digital works...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PiracyQuoteYou can't fix stupid, unfortunately.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 13, 2011, 10:22:30 pmI was about to say the same thing. It's not even legally classed as theft but copyright violation which is totally different.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:32:08 pm
content: Like I wrote, it is always the thieves making a big fuzz out of it, and, for example, calling others stupid and finding a thousand excuses under the most obscure theories whey they are doing nothing wrong.The thing is, the only reason they are doing it is not because of some obscure "changing the society" thing. It is simply because they want something, and since the Internet makes it easy to get it, they think they are entitled to get it. That doesn't change in any way that it is wrong.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:35:30 pm
content: "Pirating", "Piracy" stupid words. have you STILL not worked it out yet? i thought this was an intelligent persons forum?...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:39:34 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 13, 2011, 10:32:08 pmWhat's wrong is software, music and media companies, eroding consumer rights with DRM. So yes, you might have a point that it's immoral to violate copyright by downloading content you're not entitled to but the record company is also shafting people left right and centre. Still two wrongs don't make a right I suppose.Come to think of it what incentive is there for people to actually pay for music and software these days? Illegal downloading is far more convenient.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 13, 2011, 10:39:34 pmI recall when all the Apple fanboys were wetting themselves with excitement, because Apple had released the "Boxed set" of the Beatles on iTunes, for the princely sum of "only £125"needless to say, all the hipster type Californian brainwashed "arty" freaks were falling over themselves to get the "Boxed set", and couldn't type their credit card numbers into iTunes fast enough! LMFAO!! Dorks, it was £6 cheaper on Amazon for the PHYSICAL boxed set. There can only be one word to describe such sheep like behaviour - brainwashed.I almost fell into a similair situation yesterday, when I was poised and ready to download two "Virtual Console" games for my Wii - retro Mario Bros 2 & 3 for £10 (virtual console = virtual product). My friend told me I could BUY a collectors edition 25th Anniversary Boxed set game with FOUR of the retro Mario Bros games plus a music CD plus a booklet on the history of Mario, for just £20.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:57:20 pm
content: The DRM also means you can only listen to it on your crapple hardware. It's sought shit, you can't listen to it on your stereo unless you connect it to the i-whatever.Another thing which encourages piracy (it's just a word, get over it) in the UK, is the right to return for goods purchased on-line after 28 days doesn't apply to music, DVDs or software etc. because there were concerns people where buying it, making a copy and returning it but all this now means is they're just downloading it in the first place.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 10:58:27 pm
content: The usual blablabla. Dudes, come back when you have one, just one, imaginative argument, instead of reiterating the same old junk and lies.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2011, 11:02:18 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 13, 2011, 10:57:20 pmActually, Apple hardware is incredibly good, but just too expensive. Also, they no longer lock their music with DRM - it was abolished a long time ago.Quote from: BoredAtWork on March 13, 2011, 10:58:27 pmDid you speak? You need to learn how to substantiate your viewpoint and specify to whom you are pointing the finger of blame, before you post such nonsensical sweeping statements. Ironically, it seems you are posting the least valuable contributions, no?You should try practicing speaking in front of a mirror - you may perfect the art of debate yet!

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 05:14:04 am
content: These types of websites have been around for a while now.First was the websites selling 'Fonts', then they were selling 'Software Drivers' for various vendors hardware and now they are targeting the electronic industry. They are attempting to get people/companies to sign up by implying that this one website will provide all the documents they need on one handy website.This will never work but it never stops them from trying, unfortunately there is no shortage of people out there who are willing to part with there money.Regards

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:54:13 am
content: Pirate = theif - a really bad theif who once killed to get the loot if need be

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:12:05 am
content: Pirate = theif = take something belong to someone that not suppose to belong (be kept) to others, or take freely something that supposed to be paid without permission/consent that will cause loss in the original owner/seller. thats my simple definition. so from my 2cnts, selling free item is not thief, but re-selling item that we suppose to pay from original owner/seller, is piracy.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 08:01:29 am
content: Quote from: Darkman1969 on March 14, 2011, 05:14:04 amyea I can never figure why I get so much spam in my inbox, I mean surely they know they are being pathetic ? but still they can so they do

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 12:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2011, 07:12:05 amMan, you folks just don't understand, do you?A "pirate" has a ship - on this ship are OTHER pirates. These pirates take control of OTHER ships, and steal their supplies, possibly murdering them at times.Unless you know that it is a pre-requisite to have a wooden leg, a parrot and a musket in order to "steal" software, then the title "pirate" is about as accurate and applicable to software and digital media as the title "traffic warden" would be to a full time chef!Honestly, it is about as irrelevant a phrase as could be imagined, and it is ignorance such as displayed in this thread which perpetuates the usage of such badly coined phrases.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 12:48:43 pm
content: [takes of moderator jacket]Gossywhite, why don't you just shut up ! you know damn well that the word piracy is used today in the context of theft of intellectual property. In this particular case of reselling free datasheets maybe it's not the usualy used word (although in my mind amounts to the same) but the word pirate has more than one meaning and it taken in context.[puts moderator jacket back on]How is is that any thread you take active part in ends up in an argument ? Everyone is entitled to a point of view !

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 01:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 14, 2011, 12:48:43 pmLOL!I hadn't realised that correcting the misuse of phrases was "causing an argument"? You can get as hot and bothered as you like (not my intention) but that doesn't negate the fact that a "pirate" is as far from software or computing as earth is from Pluto.Everyone is entitled to a point of view? Well you're contradicting yourself, in that case. I am providing an intelligent and informed opinion - one from someone who is massively respected in the GNU/Linux community, and who has been using GNU/Linux of every shape/variety and distro you could hope to imagine, for more than six years FULL TIME. I have watched more lectures from Richard Stallman than I think there are episodes of "Friends", and I am sorry but "piracy" is just THE most ridiculously placed and inaccurate phrase possible!People who work with free software are often the ones who live with and hear this kind of conversationdaily, and take part in worldwide discussions of such nature. No offence, but I feel I am alittlemore clued up than a few electronics engineers discussing the selling of data sheets. THINK about the word - it is just laughable, and bears no relevance to the practice to which it attempts to refer:Please read this - all of it:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#PiracyNo offence, but EEVblog is atinylittle forum, amidst the ocean of the internet, and I have many years of Linux community experience on my side. I have been a member of many free software & GNU/Linux forums for many, many years - forums comprising many millions of people who collectively express a passionate and active interest in free software and all related topics. I have watched more content on the subject of "piracy" and copyright/copyleft, the GNU GPL and the suchlike, than I can even start to try and remember.My point is just this - please do not dismiss my comments - it IS a stupid word - do some researchThank you.

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 01:29:06 pm
content: Glossywhite may not like the word "pirate" as applied to intellectual property andperhapshe's even right. However, since the term is embedded in the vernacular of the day, it's probably not going to be possible to change the world view to his. I have to agree with Simon on this one.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 01:31:04 pm
content: well ok. glossywhite = pirate, he hijack a thread and try to kill everybody's idea and then leave happilyit is metaphor people used today. real pirate is pretty much extinct today, except in country where there is still war and rebelion. this is the modern pirate, not the pirate with one eye and hook hand. and you know why he got a parrot? to send msg to his whore to get ready when he get down to mainland.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 01:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: Jon Chandler on March 14, 2011, 01:29:06 pmI agree with you completely, and I am not meaning to cause a problem. However, the perpetuation of these ridiculous phrases is BECAUSE people just throw their hands up and accept them, saying "it is how it is" - the stupidity CAN disappear, one step at a time, if you want it enough. In this case, I take it you don't mind that big corporations have taken control of how we even (mis)use the English language? There are very simple alternatives:1/ "Unauthorised file sharing"2/ "Illegally shared files"The point I am making is irrelevant to the politics of it all, I am stating that "pirate/s" and "piracy" are simply laughable, when used in this context.Thanks

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 05:53:34 pm
content: The term has entered common use in different contexts and i'm sure there are many more examples although I'm no language expert (despite being fluent in 2 languages) although i always endeavour to speak/write correctly and in an understandable way.I think the term piracy has possibly come to encompass any form of activity (legal or not maybe) that is more involved than the pure act of stealing. When you pirate software or films you are getting around protective mecanisms and then going to lengths to duplicate and profit from the theft. Like a pirate in a boat as you say does not simply break into a shop and steal stuff he arms himself with equipment to take over and get around others defence mecanisms in order to get to the loot (board a ship and kill the crew if neccesary). Wheather of not we used the word completely correctly in this case is not the case of debate.This forum may be tiny but all good things come in small packagesand I've seen some bad forums in my short time. I've always found this place a pleasure to take part in.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:10:32 pm
content: Okay.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:45:42 pm
content: Its not uncommon for glossywhite to inject an off topic personal opinion which is almost always critical of something. I think its what has developed a reputation for in a very short time around here.Every forum has one or two of his breed. Love 'em or hate 'em.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:52:31 pm
content: yes well let's just move on shall we ?

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 13, 2011, 10:22:30 pmODD - 15 instances of the word piracyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 06:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: Time on March 14, 2011, 06:45:42 pmI don't see it was AT ALL "off-topic". In fact, the complete inverse - it was MORE on topic than the topic was! Piracy of free stuff is not possible, and the word piracy is intentionally misleading and wrong.Meh, you can lead a horse to water... I am wasting effort on those who stubbornly refuse to reason with common sense and logic. Call it "washing up liquid" for all I care, you'd still be equally as wrong as you are by calling it "piracy".You have shown your complete and utter ignorance of how free software and the GPL work. Had you any respect for the copyright system you feign to adhere to, you'd know the term is a spin on words to make you feel like more of a criminal than you could EVER be, merely by downloading a COPY of something which is it is actually impossible to "steal".Carry on with your quaint little rant about being ripped off - see you when you leave toytown.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:00:47 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 14, 2011, 06:57:20 pmWell I'll give you that any day

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:08:56 pm
content: I don't get why the semantics of this are being so fervently argued. That alone is stupid in itself. Language evolves with time and you are shallow and uninsightful if you can't understand that with our own evolution is the evolution of language.The amount of words that have evolved multiple meanings through analogy is practically infinite. I am sure every single instance of this had some narrow minded advocate (or group of advocates) claiming it made no sense as it did not directly align with all literal definitions of that time period.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:10:30 pm
content: Do me a favour please - ban me, before I say something I know I don't mean, as I am not an unkind person by any means. I've wasted enough time on resistor twisting nerds who haven't a clue about life outside a circuit board.Please, I am giving you explicit permission to ban me, saving me the temptation to lay it on the line to you all, which would be an utter waste of effort!Mechatrommer - before I leave, you're the biggest waste of a translator's time I can imagine. Dave, you're a great chap with a great forum, but you are WAY too uptight, and take your YouTube a little too seriously mate. You're a good chap at heart - I know it, but your unforgiving nature and perpetual ranting will be your downfall if you don't address it. I am a hypocrite, and I am in no denial of this, so I shall spare you of my continued input, and re-focus my myriad skills where they are better applied, understood and wanted.To all the rest of you, I have no problem - I hope you enjoy your time in trumpton, and I'll bid you a fond farewell - I hope you enjoy life thoroughlyGood bye, dear sheeple.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:13:20 pm
content: Haha... ooooooookkk.Talk about a drama queen losing his cool.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:16:13 pm
content: Quote from: Time on March 14, 2011, 07:13:20 pmWere I to lose my cool, I would have resorted to predictable and impotent insults of a profane nature. I am perfectly cool, which is why I have made the rational decision to allow myself to be banned. I'm wasting no more effort on idiots.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:23:06 pm
content: you can choose to stop posting any day, you will be banned if you overstep the mark, most of us are adults here and we like to treat people like adults

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:36:48 pm
content: You are quite behind in the times. Piracy is a well established term used in modern society. I don't get what you have to argue.US Government:http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92preface.htmlThe Piracy and Counterfeiting Amendments Act of 1982UK Parliament:http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/key-issues-for-the-new-parliament/security-and-liberty/copyright-and-piracy/

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:38:07 pm
content: here, we call taxi without license a "pirate", and its everywhere accepted by anyone, even policemen who take bribery. i vote not to ban glossy!Quote from: Time on March 14, 2011, 07:36:48 pmhe's implying all of us are fool including the government etc.did i just make a wasteful translation?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2011, 07:38:07 pmI vote you grow up !

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 07:57:54 pm
content: actually on many dvd's you buy there are antipiracy adverts and they use the word piracy

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 08:01:04 pm
content: Yea, I am not sure where his argument is coming from. Maybe he thinks the actual terminology is doing real pirates an injustice?He should probably call Webster and take his argument up with him.glossywhite, defending a true pirates rights everywhere!

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 08:09:44 pm
content: You had better go correct this guy, glossywhite. Another battle is lost for you and your seafaring friends! ---- >https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2796.0;topicseen

author: ziq8tsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 08:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 14, 2011, 05:53:34 pmNo, "piracy" very much refers to private and noncommercial sharing (and regardless of whether anyprotectiverestrictive mechanisms were circumvented). Where there is realistic suggestion of a profit motive, the media cartel will up the rhetoric with terms such as "criminal counterfeiting" and "organised crime gangs", and vague suggestions of possible links to terrorism.In most jurisdictions, noncommercial copyright infringement is not a crime (and it is certainly not theft) but merely a civil matter. This is just one of many things that the copyright industry's PR spin seeks to obscure or misrepresent by careful (or deliberately sloppy) wording.Of course, it does not matter what we agree to call something. But it is perfectly valid to point out that the term piracy is hyperbolic in the extreme. That it is intended to bring with it the moral preconceptions of one side of the discussion. And that it is intended to mislead less knowledgeable readers.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 09:49:12 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 14, 2011, 06:57:20 pmOf course it's possible to pirate free stuff, all right I mean violate copyright by redistributing freely obtainable works.Just because you can download something from a certain Internet site free of charge it doesn't necessarily mean you're free to do whatever you want with it. The author might've imposed a licence agreement stating you can't, modify it or redistribute it and the only way you can legally post it on a forum is by posting a link to the website you downloaded from.Quote from: Simon on March 14, 2011, 05:53:34 pmNo, that's not true and is a very poor analogy. When someone downloads something they're not entitled to they're not stealing anything at all because the creator doesn't actually loose anything as a result of the downloader's actions, it's not that simple.Suppose you run a factory making multimeters and glossywhite steals a crate containing 1000 meters, each worth £100, you've just lost £100,000 worth of stock.Take a similar scenario with software. Suppose you're running a software company producing BASIC for MCUs, each licence costing £100 and is protected by a DRM system which requires online registration. Now glossywhite writes a crack to circumvent the DRM and activation, puts it on his favourite filesharing network and 1000 people download it. Can you really say you've lost £100,000?You can't say that because that would be assuming everyone who downloaded it would've bought it. A large proportion of those who downloaded it probably only did so because they were curious or couldn't afford it so would've never paid for it: unlike the DVMs you've not lost a customer for each download. The only customers you've lost is those who would've paid for it and is impossible to prove. It's also possible that the illegal downloaders will show it to someone more honest, who will buy it and learn the software so their employers might buy it giving you more paying customers.This is why Microsoft doesn't really care about people pirating their software in developing counties and didn't do much about it in the west until everyone was using it. Allowing people to use their software illegally just makes it more widely used, then when everyone is using it, they can tighten up on piracy, forcing people to pay.http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/07/we-love-microsoft-software-piracy-in.htmlhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198000211&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_All

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 10:23:38 pm
content: I am thinking the operators of these sites are well aware of the legal side of things. If a document on there site does contain a 'Free to Public' clause the operators will point out they charge for 'access to there site', not for individual documents, therefore circumventing any 'free to Public' clauses.As for the argument over the dictionary definition of 'Pirate', well, last time i checked, this was an EE Blog and in no way connected to Oxford. So i dont think this blog is the correct place for such discussions (as humorous as they are).Just my 2 cents.Regards

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 10:49:50 pm
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 14, 2011, 10:24:49 pmand you dont have oneok now i've grown up... i vote to ban glossy! before he put my face poster up on the thread.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 10:54:28 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on March 14, 2011, 10:49:50 pmI vote to ban me TOO, dimbleweed! That was the POINT

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 10:56:57 pm
content: Why don't you just quit?I say don't ban glossywhite, don't give him the satisfaction. He'll probably just create another account anyway.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 10:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 14, 2011, 10:56:57 pmOkay, if that's what you want. Make sure you're certain you want me to stay though...Create a new account?yeah, sure... course

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 11:11:23 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 14, 2011, 10:56:57 pmQuote from: Simon on March 14, 2011, 07:52:53 pmhe's doin it! vagarafeftycentakilo!

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 11:37:23 pm
content: glossywhiteis no longer with us.This is not due to his constant personal attacks against people who disagree with him but for creating dozens of spam threads.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2011, 11:39:30 pm
content: well I no longer care about this thread if its not about trying to push his buttons while staying polite

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 12:18:42 am
content: Quote from: glossywhite on March 14, 2011, 07:10:30 pmWish granted.Dave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 06:49:46 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 15, 2011, 12:18:42 amAnd may we all rest in peace !

author: philbx1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 10:30:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 15, 2011, 12:18:42 amThanks much Dave.Seems I started a topic with a title I thought was a fair comment on the state ofsearch engine Datasheet 'pirating'.Unfortunately I didn't hire a team of consultants to check the ramifications ofpossibly wrong wordingThanks also to most of you fine people also who have replied, and I really appreciate and take noteof your excellent input.I just hope it's all water (or trolls) under the bridge for now...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 12:35:44 pm
content: Quote from: Time on March 14, 2011, 11:39:30 pmWell it was going to happen sooner or later but I don't beleive in proking people for fun

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 06:38:30 pm
content: glossywhite can't help being the way he is. He has Asperger's syndrome which basically he means he has poor social and organisational skills and but otherwise average or above mental abilities. Simon and I know someone like this in real life.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 06:49:04 pm
content: I didn't know he had aspergers although we still have to draw the line somewhere. Regardless of what "problems" he may have he also brought nastiness with him which had it's last manifestation in the form of posting spam. We can't have that, many asperges sufurers learn to deal with everyday life although it is a much harder struggle than a normal person would have. I'm afraid life is hard, nothing we can do about it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 07:02:07 pm
content: I agree.He's also from Northamptonshire, maybe we could do some match making lol.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 07:08:49 pm
content: hm might not end well. At the moment she has "boyfriends" from school who don't seem to last long. More of a "lets be on facebook every moment we are not at school"

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 10:33:09 pm
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 15, 2011, 10:21:54 pmTo be fair you have not been around to "suffer" his "attitude". As far as I'm concerned asperges or not he was just out for trouble. I'm not prejudiced against anyone. As it happens the perason I know with asperges i go out of my way to ensure she takes part like anyone else in the social club we are both members in so don't tell me what I'm doing right or wrong mate !

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 11:16:21 pm
content: Regardless of glossy having an mental illness or not, he still did what he did and something had to be done.I find myself asking 'does glossy actually have aspergers or is he saying this to excuse his actions on this forum. I have not met glossy in person so i cant say either way for sure. I have met enough false people hiding behind keyboard in chatrooms to know not to believe everything you read in such room/forums.Regards

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2011, 11:57:08 pm
content: OK, i will drop this rather tired topic.Regards

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 04:17:56 am
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 15, 2011, 10:54:13 pmYou certainly can judge someone as a person from how they behave online. How people behave online shows how they would behave with little to no social regulation, and what they actually think. That they don't act like thatopenlyface-to-face is of no consequence. Plenty of assholes and psychopaths are nice as can be face-to-face, their real personality comes out when no one is watching. If you make friends with such people you will eventually get burned by their real personalities.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 06:57:04 am
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 15, 2011, 10:54:13 pmThis is an online community and therefore we can only take what is presented online and for the purrpose of keeping this a nice place to use that's what matters here. Regardless of his attitude in real life he has no right to unsettle the forum like he was and if he brings a different attitude here that is how he will be judged. As i said he was banned for posting spam and before that had always been over touchy and rowed with people just because they held a view he did not.You say I have a small town mentality ? well matee your operating the same prejudice you acuse me and others of. I've spent half my life in the UK and half living abroad so I've had the chance to see two societies with an outside perspective and have had to handle a lot of different people, infact since understanding about apserges I had a half suspicion I am/was borderline myself and may have never been diagnosed although recognise in myself some of the aspectrs of my friends behaviour although on a much lesser scale. I am also very opinionated sometimes but then I've learnt to respect others views and debate things withhout letting my own feelings get in the way. Why do you just pop up out of nowhere and intervene into something that is not your business but of course - let me guess, you are Glossywhite

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 07:45:18 am
content: from my limited experience. how people behave online, is partly of what they are in real life. how stubborn you hold your opinion in the net, thats the same thing how stubborn you are in the real life. the only difference is that, in internet, we can argue as we like no matter how punny we are and not being afraid being beaten by a big guy, or at least we are not in any way got relation with the guy in real life. but it will different in real life, this type argument may sometime end up in blood on the floor, or blue and sweell mark on the face, or at least lost an already good relationship. hence in real life, we tend to be silent more compared to in the forum, just to hold the good relationship. i was thinking if its possible to make an eevblog gathering, (but i guess thats far from possibilty) which we can see how sweet everybody's smile. i only can put it up on the smiley. Cheersas for glossy is concerned, i think there is workaround for him, thats why i keep provoking him in different way to see how he react, and to understand him much more how to trigger or not his button, and at least somehow try to teach him... in this very limited space of internet forum. but its too late i think, as he crossed the line already (spam).

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 07:54:07 am
content: well for that reason forums have to have moderators, people are a little less controlled on the net, they can walk away from it and pretend it never happeded any day. No I don't think a forum gathering would quite work as we are all over the world.As Hero mentioned and I have alluded to in other threads we know each other personally and there may well be others on here who know each other in real life. on "that other forum" there is a guy that I met in real life who lives closer to me than Hero, don't know if he is on here.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 03:29:18 pm
content: social disability and empathy problems are a symptom of asperger's not a stereotype.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 04:25:54 pm
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 16, 2011, 04:09:29 pmSay's the mysterious newbie whose every post has been on this subject.I wonder if you were smart enough to post behind a proxy on this account.P.S. Step up your game. You can't just pull a 0 post sock puppet out and expect it to be taken seriously.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 04:28:02 pm
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 15, 2011, 10:21:54 pmI think the conversation was over up until this point.Why would a random person have such strong convictions towards this situation? Unless of course you are....

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 04:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: wintendo on March 16, 2011, 04:43:27 pmThe ironicals is deliciousness.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 05:26:29 pm
content: Well maybe it is time to bring this to a close. I will lock this thread now as i think we have evaluated all angles neccesary.Gossywhite / Wintendo. Your welcome to stay under your current username providing of course you stick to the rules and don't insult people.It also goes without saying that provocatrions of any member by any member will not be tollerated (I've already removed one in another thread), the rules apply to all.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2011, 09:29:39 pm
content: Wintendo IS GlossywhiteGlossywhite ASKED to be banned and then spammed the board to get that action taken upon him, and now he's created another account Wintendo pretending to be someone else, this simply will not be tolerated.His IP address is now blocked.Dave.