Used Analog Scopes - Which one for a newbie? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ckatheman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 02:39:04 pm
content: Hello,I am new to electronics, and since I am an experienced C/C++/C# programmer, I decided to wade my way into the world of electronics via microcontrollers and then on to more sophisticated stuff once I learn more. Right now I am in the process of stocking up on the equipment I will need. I have a pretty low budget and was looking towards a used analog scope on the advice of some of the videos on this blog.Since I am serious about this, I would like to get a reasonably decent used analog scope to start (I would rather not start out frustrated on dodgy equipment), but I am having trouble figuring out what brand/price range is the best. There are ton of used benchtop 100Mhz Tektronix scopes on Ebay, etc... for less than $200, but i'm not sure what a good model number/feature set would be?Any advice appreciated!Thanks!Chris...

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 02:43:15 pm
content: Save up $100 more and get a Rigol 50mhz scope and mod it to 100mhz. (or maybe there are other digital scopes at that $300 price now...not sure). If you are doing a lot of digital and microcontroller work, the digital scope will be VERY usefull examining data lines (you can trigger off the micro clock and display two data lines for timing and such).I have recently been playing again with my Rigol scope after getting an Agilent much more expensive model, and continue to be suprised at how decent a scope it is for $300.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 03:02:11 pm
content: Are the Rigol's properly down to $300 - i.e you can buy one inclusive of any appropriate sales tax plus delivery and only spend $300?They're about £280 (=$450) in the UK.

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 03:06:49 pm
content: Couldn't agree more with KTP. The Rigol is much better for digital work--it lets you see what precedes an event of interest and does a much better job representing slow repetition rates.I still recommend finding an analog scope for learning, and since you don't need anything fancy for that, see what you can borrow or snag for free. If you are set on getting one, there's an eBay review page on Tektronix scopes with a good overview of all the old models. The oldest ones were built like Mercedes, the later ones like Toyotas, with the middle ones somewhere in-between. Common issues for the older ones are dirty switches and bad capacitors. Look for mid-80s+ vintage that's in nice physical condition and taken out of current service and you'll probably be OK. I wouldn't spend more than $150 including shipping for one with a 14-day guarantee.

author: ckatheman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 03:15:53 pm
content: Can you still perform the 100Mhz hack on a new Rigol DS1052E? Most of the stuff I have found on that dates back to 2010 and I have seen some posts (not sure how accurate) that the hack no longer works/bricks units???

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 03:29:46 pm
content: Hmmm...maybe you can't mod the new Rigol scopes. It looks like Sfinx is doing some research on the new hardware model with firmware 3.0https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog-specific/changing-the-rigol-ds1052e-to-ds1102e-using-usb-the-dummy-guide/1035/In the usa you can get the 50mhz version for $350 with free shipping and the 100mhz version for $399 with free shipping, so it may not even be worth risking the mod.http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html?gclid=CLyjlYidxLECFSQ0QgodbRAAbQNote there may be other scopes out now with even better specs than the Rigol for similar money. Owon?

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 04:09:56 pm
content: Well if you weren't doing digital work, I would say Tektronix 455, 465M, 465, 465B or 475 are all great scopes albeit quite old at this point, BUT, you can get them for like $100 shipped if you look hard enough. I got my 465M for $90 in practically mint condition.There are some other newer Tek scopes like the 2235 or 2465 which are also great scopes and have more functionality that would probably work better with digital stuff...But as others have said, digital scopes just can't be beat if you are using them in this way. Capture frame and all sorts of decoding options.

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 04:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: ckatheman on July 31, 2012, 03:15:53 pmI, too, heard that rumor and spent the extra $50 for the 100MHz version.You probably get the same probes for the versions, but maybe you don't... Anyway, with the 100Mhz scope you get the matching probes and you don't have to wonder if you are using probes with insufficient bandwidth.And you get a three-year warranty, which probably isn't honored if you hack the upgrade. The Rigols seem reliable but at $350-400, it's nice to know that you'll get three years out of it for sure.

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 04:21:06 pm
content: Even at $400 with free shipping...when you can view a 600ps risetime waveform on the Rigol scope and it looks this good, I can't see a lot of reason to spend $200 on an analog scope unless you can eliminate your gym membership fee at the same time.This signal on a 100mhz Rigol is almost as good as that on a $4000 Agilent 200mhz scope:

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 04:37:45 pm
content: I aggree; the best used analog scope is a new digital scope!

author: ckatheman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 06:06:49 pm
content: Wow - Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply, this looks like a great forum!I guess I will look into the Rigol instead of a used analog,and probably just get the 100mhz, since it's only 50 bucks more and would provide some piece of mind. Is there anything else I should purchase along with it (extra probes, etc...)?

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 06:21:59 pm
content: Quote from: ckatheman on July 31, 2012, 06:06:49 pmA RG58 bnc cable, a bnc t-connector and a 50 ohm bnc termination. Since the Rigol doesn't have internal 50 ohm termination, you have to use something like those to get the really high speed fast edge signals into the Rigol undistorted. The supplied probes will do you fine though for a lot of analog and digital work in the 10mhz to 20mhz range with edge times > 10ns. I am still waiting for Dave to do a really good tutorial on the ins and outs of probes.You should be able to pick up the bnc stuff on ebay for less than $10 total. Or even Radio Shack (how I hate thee)

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 07:02:47 pm
content: QuoteYou don't need any of these if you're just starting out, and the DS1102E will handle 100MHz+ bandwidth wothout a 50-ohm impedance changer. The bundled probes aren't the best I've ever seen, but they are fine for what you will be doing. If you want to save 50 bucks, you can buy the DS1052E and hack it to be a DS1102E, but if you're not tight on cash, I'd say just go for the DS1102E.

author: KTP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2012, 07:22:31 pm
content: Quote from: olsenn on July 31, 2012, 07:02:47 pmI agree, if you are starting out and doing pic or atmel stuff and maybe 555 timer stuff, the probes included with the scope are all you need.Are you quite sure the new DS1052E can be hacked? There is some doubt in the other thread...