A DSO Nano Worth Trying? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 03:45:43 pm
content: I wonder how they pulled this off?http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/preorder-dso-quad-beta-test-p-736.html?cPath=174

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 03:54:06 pm
content: no, is not. It is a toy, if you have already good analog osciloscope and good DSO and still some spare money for useless toys, well then buy it.

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 03:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: tinhead on January 27, 2011, 03:54:06 pmAre you commenting on the DSO Nano or is that your prediction for this new one?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 04:18:13 pm
content: •Two 72Mhz analog channels and two digital channels•Sampling rate: 1kSa/s - 72MSa/Salot of efforts in eevblog have been made to explain what is sampling rate is. having learnt something, looking from the spec above, its a joke, hence tinhead's prediction is totally correct. its a toy. but i'm not sure about the "useless" part, i think it will be good for 7.2MHz bandwidth.

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 04:21:44 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on January 27, 2011, 04:18:13 pmYes, I saw that. If it actually delivers 7MHz of usable bandwidth, fits in your pocket, and costs less than $200, I would be damn impressed. I would probably buy one, why not?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 05:04:20 pm
content: IMHO any scope is better than none, and this beta version seems more capable than the previous one. But if you compare the specs of something like the Rigol 1052E against the Nano, there are a lot of items left unknown in the Nano.Nano isn't the only low frequency portable cheapo scope out there. But a word of caution about portable scopes, none seem to have input protection or double insulation. So except for battery powered circuits, if you were to troubleshoot a device with CAT 1 level voltages, it could shock you and/or damage the scope.

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 05:30:05 pm
content: I think it would be a bit silly to expect it to displace a bench scope like the Rigol. I think making that comparison discounts the incredible portability. I thought the original one was novel but at 1MSPS, it seemed pretty useless (what is that 100Khz tops). On the other hand 7Mhz fits my needs probably 80-90% of the time. Plus, there are a lot of other things that make it more like a real scope like a real input range (80v p-p at 1x) and real mini-bnc inputs. So my thought is, is this an actual valuable tool to have as an addition to your bench scope?If you think about all the stuff that has to go into a scope with 72Msps (ADC, PGA, FPGA, Input Ranging, glue logic), I think it is very impressive they stuffed it into that little case behind an LCD. Obviously, I am skeptical of real world performance, especially at the price, but I am anxious to see how it does.

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 06:18:05 pm
content: I have a NANO, but I also have 7 other scopes. As a small, fits-in-your-pocket, don't-expect-too-much scope it is a great item to have in your pocket. Cheap and it works. UI is a bit awkward at times, but throw it in my bag when I travel and on occasion is has been very helpful. I would not buy one as my first or only scope. But as I indicated it has its moments.paul

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 08:34:14 pm
content: Sorry, what I meant is characterizing the quality of its capabilities, so that includes vertical amp accuracy, timebase, sampling rate vs timebase, etc., not that it should match any bench scope; if you own more than one scope you can compare it against that as a reference, and get better results.I'm with tecman's opinion, you can get useful things out of toys, once you know were to draw the line on its performance. The specs can help you find that line sooner.Quote from: CafeLogic on January 27, 2011, 05:30:05 pm

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2011, 08:39:35 pm
content: Oh yes, I see what you were saying. It's a good point, I will let someone else be the guinea pig. Even if they were forthcoming with that info, I would take it with a grain of salt.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 12:42:22 am
content: Quote from: CafeLogic on January 27, 2011, 05:30:05 pmUnless you need the battery powered portability, no, not really.Dave.

author: glossywhite
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 01:02:03 am
content: It just looks SO useles and cack. I'd rather build a kit scope of lesser spec, than be sucked into this trap - at least I'd have the pleasure of construction, before retiring it to the shelf, to live out its' days attracting dust.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 01:40:49 am
content: I have the DSO Nano v2, it is a toy for those of us who want to do light audio/electronics work. You can at least check for the presence of the correct signal but you won't be able to do much trouble shooting with it (which can save you some time if you have damaged a chip with ESD but don't realise it).Also the build quality of even the DSO Nano v2 isn't great (ie switches aren't mounted in consistent places under external buttons which can make it fiddly) and the v1 was pretty bad, do I definitely wouldn't get the Quad beta unit.The most I have used mine for so far is to show my little brother how PWM modulation on the Arduino works.For a $100 if you troll eBay all day you can get a better analog scope. For $170 you can easily find a better analog scope.Really the best thing about the DSO Nano is that it is open source so it is basically a $100 ARM cortex dev kit in a nice shell. When I get a real O-scope I will likely turn my Nano into a robot controller.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 01:46:01 am
content: Quote from: the_raptor on January 28, 2011, 01:40:49 amDeja vu!Xh9FNRpta9sDave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 04:05:45 pm
content: The thing with ebay (someone with tight budget; e.g. student; needs a simple 20~50 MHz oscilloscope) is that oscilloscopes are heavy. If the seller must dispatch outside his country the extra cost is heavy also.I think LG had a series o cheap analog oscilloscopes with build in function generator.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2011, 09:50:50 pm
content: the OP Quad cost (beta + excl shipping) 1/2 - 1/3 of the proper RIGOL cost (incl shipping from china). for tight bugdetter like student, what i'm afraid of is that this thing wont last long (durability), or at least wont be usable long enough if the student want to develop more advance project. resulting in more waste of money later to buy more proper equipment. i dont know how to term it in english, its like "scissor or thorn in cloth fold" (or simply "poison"), you wont see it and only bite you when you open the fold (bought the Quad). there will be no issue though if its for other who have more money and buy this as secondary measurement and portability or you really know what you are doing, as posted earlier (somewhere).ps: just by the look of it, its a no pro device, its a toy gadget that is not built for durability. once fallen, it will become pieces.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 04:59:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 28, 2011, 01:46:01 amIt isn't deja vu so much as shamelessly paraphrasing without attributionThe week I was looking at the DSO Nano v2 I couldn't find anything good on eBay (I just wanted a scope to play around withArduino and a kit I was building) and thought the construction issues of the v1 would have been fixed.Now that I am getting into amateur radio I really regret not following your advice and waiting for a cheap analog scope.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 02:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: the_raptor on January 29, 2011, 04:59:02 amsame here, even my rigol 1102e (hacked) cannot cope with that. and waiting for a cheap spectrum analyzer

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 03:35:02 pm
content: and btw, you can build your own DIY scope, for example you can use source code and schematics from Gabotronics xmultikit,replace the ADC by e.g. AD9288 (like the nano crap is doing), change a bit source and ehre we are - a working DSO for ~ 50USD.If you wish to support the developer you can buy kits, or PCBs only, whatever you budget allow to you.The NANO thing is on one one side "hey he open source", on the other side a real crap that costs much too much.It is like the OWLS from seeedstudio/Dangerous Prototypes, a free sump LA (which is great one), new crap java sw and piece offew lines additional code and here we are - again a success open source pay for nothing story.A Xilinx or Altera FPGA devboard costs the same, and if you chose a right one model you will have 10x that much an SRAM for data capturing, same speed and few additonal "free gadgets".Just don'T be blind, to support open source is one thing, i love to support developers and i do it on regulairly basis (as far i can with my yearly budget). But to support lazy crap pseduo-developers ? No, no go.Or another one example : all these Arduino open source boards / addons. Sometime i could kill my hacker colleagues, is it really that hard to say "that's an Atmel tiny dev board, or Microchip tiny defv board"Why to support all these money makers .. every beginer child watching "cool youtube" videos about cool hacks is directly running to next "open source tools store" and spending much more money for Arduino as a commercial C compiler license,full trays of µC and 1 m² double side PCB costs together.This is not really helping anybody to learn, all these students crying "i can't pay it, that's 5USD" are result of this hehe, and who wins ? All these pseudo "open source dev tool stores" ...And no, i'm not against making some money, but you have to saty fair. On no, no matter where you come from, but just stay fair.

author: slburris
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 04:46:54 pm
content: This is the same thing, right?http://iteadstudio.com/copied/multi-channel-pocket-oscilloscope-ds0203-preview/Pics of the internals. It's starting to look a little more grownup, not just a micro sampling it's ADC input as fast as possible.I thought the original was really cute, but useless. This seemsreally cute, but less useless.Scott

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 05:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: slburris on January 29, 2011, 04:46:54 pmyes that's the same thing, and look on the most important part "The price should be under $125".a "under 125" is like 100, and 100$ is probably ok (for a stm32 board with display and extra ADC)I can't support such ppl, they probably never ever developed something, these designs are almost copy/past/own logo/sell as open source/make moneylook at that screenshot below :Tags - Open Source, Saleae Logic CLONE, USBee AX CLONEthats enought for me to know what kind of developers they are.Saleae (Joe Garrison) spend more than a year to develop nice multiplatform software for his LA and these morons producing clonesand making "open source, buy here our crap" announcements ..From a technical point of view, the Nano v2 is "great", you will get for 199$ version with 40MSs 8 ADC and not the "highest" 10 bit 105MSs model.What's about these crap plugs/cables ? anyway ... enough for today, i'm 5sec before i explode

author: Chasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2011, 07:48:03 pm
content: There is also a "more traditional" STM32 oscilloscope development board on eBay for around $160.But then there are also other nice STM32 boards for far less money if you don't need the oscilloscope gimmick.Quote from: tinhead on January 29, 2011, 05:50:37 pmThe most interesting part of both the Saleae LA and the usbee is the software, the hardware is very similar. This was not only demonstrated by the "universal" clones but also by those that come without the eeprom and their own software.Protecting the product is almost impossible nowadays.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2011, 11:24:00 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on January 29, 2011, 03:35:02 pmWhy can't they just say "that's my micro-controller tiny dev board?". Seems a bit funny to get annoyed at one trademark product name but be fine with others.Arduino is an eco-system, not a dev-board. Complaining about the price when nobody else ever successfully marketed the same idea and nearly every board is available from garage hobbyists is a bit silly.Yeah they are more expensive then rolling your own PCB, but that is only if your time has zero cost.Arduino got me back into electronics because I could build a (very sophisticated, depending on the number of shields you use) robot from off the shelf bits without spending weeks building a micro-controller and motor driver PCB. Arduino™ is aimed at "hackers" not electronics nerds.

author: TopherTheME
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2011, 07:34:32 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on January 28, 2011, 04:05:45 pmIn that case, this person should get one of these:http://www.parallax.com/Store/Components/Other/tabid/157/List/0/ProductID/46/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2CProductName

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2011, 08:03:21 pm
content: Quote from: TopherTheME on February 01, 2011, 07:34:32 pmHow is that better than all the other crappy toy DSO's with a lousy analog front-end and barely enough sample rate for audio frequencies? Exactly the kind targeted by Dave's rant. IMO the weight just means that you should prefer local (and least in your own country) sources for analog scopes, international shipping tends to be very expensive.

author: ianryeng
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2011, 01:32:40 pm
content: Are we not basically debating the difference between netbooks and desktop computers here?They both have their benefits but one is considerably more powerful than the other... you trade off the convenience of portability for a lack of power and utility.Just my opinion but it seems that there could be a time not far from now where these 'toys' will be ~equal to their larger counterparts.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2011, 02:20:50 pm
content: Quote from: ianryeng on February 19, 2011, 01:32:40 pmu probably one of the famous developers, are u?This is not klaptop vs. desktop, it is child toy computer vs. real PC ... check the pic in below and think about it a second and you will recognizewhat's the diff.

author: ianryeng
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2011, 02:51:19 pm
content: Ha ha ha.No I have no involvement whatsoever.Perhaps a slight exaggeration but I appreciate the analogy