MS Word is a nuisance - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 01:46:23 am
content: I've been helping with documentation by creating DXFs of PCB layers that are imported into Visio, and then imported into Word. This is to create ECO procedures, etc.Needless to say, Word is a huge pain. Stuff suddenly moves all over the place, you try to save and you "a file error has occurred" and you lose hours of work, etc...What do you use under Windows to create 10-20 page documents that are simply one or two drawings and two or three lines of text per page?

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:04:51 am
content: Have you tried Libreoffice?

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:15:10 am
content: I'd probably use LaTex with the graphicx package to do this.

author: Dielectric
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:17:23 am
content: I'd be looking at something like LaTeX, should be relatively easy to come up with a template and just blast it out. Post-process to PDF, probably, since EPS isn't really very common among office types.The last time I had to generate a bunch of docs, I used Python and Flask (HTML generator from templates) along with a CSV file to relate image files to areas and comments. Updates are fairly easy that way, just edit the CSV for new stuff and let it rip.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 03:27:28 am
content: I use LibreOffice 4.1 on a 10 year old Core2Duo with a cheap Nvidia card and it works fine. I've never felt the need to update it. I only use the Calc and Writer part. Calc does some stupid stuff occasionally which are probably bugs, but Writer has been mostly problem free. The last MS I used was Office 2000.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 03:31:08 am
content: There is no reason Word shouldn't be able to handle 20 pages with graphics. I despise word as much as anyone, but perhaps a change of strategy could help. Sometimes you have to work with the tool.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 08:26:53 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 14, 2018, 03:41:44 amYes, I've noticed LO isn't as good on Windows 10. It's certainly a Windows problem, because it works perfectly under Linux.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 08:46:48 am
content: Are these docs manually generated or automatically generated?You could create a template in Word, which has a text box and an image box and then pipe the contents into them automatically.So the only thing you do in Word is position the boxes to create the template and put some placeholders in which are replaced with your content.I am doing that at the moment using an open source library called xDocReport.The other option is just simple html. Since you said you are doing documentation then I guess it won't need to be editable by the end user?

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 09:06:52 am
content: I select all and copy from source cad software, then, when pasting in word using the 'Shift-Ctrl-V' instead of 'Ctrl-V', which should bring up a message box asking how you want to paste the image as?If you choose 'Bitmap', this may only be screen resolution quality, but, it is the most stable with MS Word, refreshing fast, resizing easy and almost never any bugs. Pasting as a 'GDI Graphic' is full quality, little slower on refresh, occasionally some transparent objects in cad drawings may automatically change to your set background page color. Some of the other default paste as options make a mess, and corrupt your document if you move them around the page too much before settling on your layout preferences.Remember, if you want some pages to be landscape instead of portrait, you need to insert a custom page break & format on the previous page. Then after all your landscape pages, you will need to do the same to go back to portrait.As for Apache OpenOffice, it actually handles things the exact same way with similar bug attributes, however, if you need to converse and share documents with others who also use MS Word, for safety compatibility sake, stick with MS Word.Once you have the pasted object, select it and it's properties. I usually set it's anchor to page or as character and set the vertical alignment to the top, or character, and horizontal to center of page and set the X&Y size. Having the anchor as a character allows your to locate you text before and after the image and just adding carriage returns will shift the image on the page.There are many other tedious little things about inserting different graphics into MS Word and OpenOffice, but, this is how they work...If you do your documentation in Apache OpenOffice, and you want to send it to someone using MS Word, you will need to save it in Open Office in MS Word format. MS Word messes up trying to open Open Office documents.If all 20 pages are graphics and a few lines of text, it may be better to do you document in MS Power Point, or, MS Excel, but, don't quote me on this, it is just a personal preference and assuming you have the complete MS Office Suite.Doing it in MS Power Point/OpenOffice Impress also means you will also have a slide show presentation ready if you want to connect your laptop to a projector in a board room meeting for presentation.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 09:38:26 am
content: What version/year of MS Office/Word are you using?I'm using MS Office 2010 and it's fairly stable.The latest Apache OpenOffice is actually more stable, however, sometime when moving many photos around on the same page, they can forget their position and get glued to the top left corner and the only fix is to cut/delete the photo and re-paste. It takes a lot of photos and text being entered and deleted shifting all the images from page to page to create the bug, however, it doesn't crash.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 01:03:09 pm
content: Damn, Excel 2010 is freaking annoying.. It just jump up and down with no reason at all if I make a mistake on the keyboard.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 01:08:56 pm
content: The biggest annoyance with Excel is that you can't have two workbooks side-by-side, and if you leave it configured normally, Alt-Tab does not switch to another window (in Win10), so you have to Alt-Tab twice, or set the Display option to only show one instance in the task bar.MS just continues to find ways to add additional clicks or make things more cumbersome to use. And Google, this is what this would be like in Google:The biggest annoyance with Excel is that you can't have two workbooks side-by-side, and if you leave it configured normally, Alt-Tab does not switch to another window (in Win10), so you have to Alt-Tab twice, or set the Display option to only show one instance in the task bar.MS just continues to find ways to add additional clicks or make things more cumbersome to use. And Google, this is what this would be like in Google:See?

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:09:43 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on September 14, 2018, 01:08:56 pmI work with side-by-side Excel workbooks everyday, at least in Office 2016. No problems at all. Previous versions made that fairly difficult, however. You can also open up multiple views of the same document by hitting "New Window" under the View tab.I hate MS Office, and there are bugs that should have been corrected decades ago that continue to be ignored by MS, but overall it's a pretty usable tool.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:11:42 pm
content: I use google docs

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:24:58 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on September 14, 2018, 02:09:43 pmI have Excel 2003 and can do two workbooks side by side with no problems. I could do four quite easily as well. The screen real estate starts getting cramped - but it's easy to do.Worksheets within the same workbook, however, is a different question.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:30:35 pm
content: Often forgotten:Word is a word processing tool with some (inferior) layout capabilities.For creating layouts use a proper layout tool. Word is simply the wrong tool for layouts.I have seen this rightup today ever so often for 30 years now. People simply don't get it.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 04:57:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 14, 2018, 01:37:38 pmThe workbooks are complex with links to external and other worksheet data. It is just a nuisance and a bit perplexing. MS Access does not suffer this deficiency. Are there any other applications that do?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 04:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on September 14, 2018, 02:09:43 pmThat must be just for O2016, I don't see it. It's a corporate system, so eventually we may upgrade.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 05:02:51 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 14, 2018, 02:24:58 pmThe only thing I can find is adding the worksheet (or workbook as a sheet) to the same window. I have several apps open at once and like to separate them on different monitors, so I can easily alt tab between them.Worksheets in the same workbook are not a problem. I can stretch the window across all three monitors if I want and have three worksheets sxs, one on each monitor. It's just a compromise and still a nuisance no better than just having to switch between them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 08:04:00 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 14, 2018, 01:46:23 amI print the PCB layers to PDF using a Gerber viewer and then use GIMP to convert to PNG which are then imported to Word as an image.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 09:05:38 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on September 14, 2018, 01:08:56 pmSwitching between multiple windows/workbooks 'within' the same program, use 'CTRL-TAB' instead of 'ALT-TAB'. As for Win10, sorry, but I'm still sane and still use Win7 Pro.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 09:09:26 pm
content: In MS Office, Power Point is best used for layout of graphics and text. You can have you pages set to paper size and it will automatically allow a simple slideshow presentation with little added effort. You can still print, pdf print, and import Power Point pages into MS Word later on if needed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 09:54:46 pm
content: Quote from: grifftech on September 14, 2018, 02:11:42 pmI tried that too but getting consistent formatting is a nightmare to setup so I ditched Google docs. At least MS Word has styles you can apply (even though the more recent versions seem to have that screwed up as well). Recently I had to move some editing jobs to Word 2010 but coming from Word 2003 a lot of things (besides the menus) have been made worse.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 10:36:23 pm
content: If you want formatting in Word to behave well, you need to keep your overall formatting as simple as possible and use tables when you need things side-by-side. If you want things to stay in-place vertically, just be sure you have paragraph breaks in between elements.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 10:49:00 pm
content: BTW I'm kind of amazed how editing text hasn't really been made easier since the days of Wordperfect. You'd almost say it is done on purpose in order to keep selling new and 'improved' versions where what was working fine 3 versions ago is broken.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 11:33:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 14, 2018, 10:49:00 pmI'm amazed how much slower it is. There used to be people who were genuinely rapid on Wordperfect and Lotus 123 - and on the old Autocad 2d come to mention it.On a 286 in 1990 you could hit /fr on lotus to load a file, type part of the filename and hit enter to load it. The screen would refresh as fast as you could hit the keys. You could operate the computer as fast as you could think.On my i7 SSD laptop the same keystrokes actually still work in Excel. But Excel cannot keep up and I have to wait, then be careful to react to the list of files which appear on the screen to select the correct file. It isn't possible to be fast with these applications, they just don't support that muscle memory mode of operation.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 12:09:55 am
content: Use Frontpage or InDesign. Both are intended for designing page layouts. The right tool for the right job.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 02:14:24 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 14, 2018, 01:46:23 amGo from Visio to pdf, it's easy.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 04:43:15 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 14, 2018, 01:46:23 amI use Word. It's fine.However...You do have to know how to use the layout features. For drawings and pictures you need to set the text wrapping and the anchor options the way you want them. You may also want to resize the pictures (shrink them a bit). Otherwise things will "jump around". It's behaving as designed.I've never seen a file error with saving. That may actually be a problem with your computer or disk or network or something?

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 05:41:38 am
content: Quote from: IanB on September 15, 2018, 04:43:15 amA further workaround against jumping pics or several pics stackingon the the top of a page, is to copy each pic in a one box table.By the way:The tables function in Word is known to be reliable.Many footnotes on many pages is highly unreliable. The footnotes do not always stickto the corresponding page but some tend to move to the next page.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 06:44:40 am
content: Whatever the reason was for everything jiggling around when I paste in converted DXFs from Visio, it can be fixed by reapplying the "normal" style and everything flows back into place.Very very odd.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 07:00:01 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 15, 2018, 06:44:40 amWhen pasting, like I said, use Shift-CTRL-V instead of paste or CTRL-V. Then choose the method of importing the paste like I explained in my earlier post.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 07:25:07 am
content: Thanks, but it's random. I started using the clip organizer to import the drawings as clip art, it's much faster. Most of the time I slap in the clip and the page stays the same. Once in a while everything goes weird again and I reapply the normal style and it fixes itself.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2018, 02:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 14, 2018, 01:46:23 amHave you tried making PDFs of the graphics and then placing those on the page?