I would like to BORROW or BUY a reflow oven UK for a weekend - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 04:13:43 pm
content: Hi all, I know this is a long shot. I have a few PCBs I need to assemble over the weekend on a short notice. I was going to buy a reflow oven or a toaster oven and a controller, but time is tight and no reasonably priced reflow oven can be bought to be delivered by Friday. I was gonna buy a T962 or similar.I live in Aylesbury, UK. Does anyone within 30 mile radius have a reflow oven I could borrow or buy please?I am happy to reimburse you of course If I can borrow one.- I have electronics gear you might be able to borrow in return.- I have a 3D printer so could print something for you- I can give you a hand/advice with something. etc...- and there is a cash option of course, I'm pretty open.I'm also happy to buy one new/used if reasonably priced for what it is (£200 max).Thank you!!!ManCave

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 05:58:18 pm
content: I have one if you want it but friday delivery means shipping tomorrow - should be able to do it. I have just bought a new oven and was going to put this on ebay but as your asking bg all means buy it.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:16:39 pm
content: If all else fails....I have a Eurocircuits reflow oven, previous generation to the one on their website.Though I'm in Cambridge so it would be a bit of a trip, but it would go into the boot of a car though.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:25:20 pm
content: I'm about 40 miles away (Kew TW9)I have one of the stupid french reflow ovens you can borrow.http://uk.farnell.com/cif/f31114/reflow-oven-190-x-290mm-230v/dp/1120351works fine though. Don't leave it unsupervised./k

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:28:23 pm
content: yea me too (NN10) so driving it down on friday afternoon is doable. Mines the very T962 not had much use

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 09:07:00 pm
content: Buy a halogen oven. Line the inside with foil and turn it on. Watch through the glass and see it reflow. Turn off and open lid.Andy Brown did a controller and worth watching his vids as he bent the fan blades a bit to ease the strength of air flow which blew the components off the board.https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/daewoo-halogen-oven-with-12l-capacity?istCompanyId=bf3344d9-83f5-4abd-b69a-da131f7567d1&istItemId=xxalxwttit&istBid=tztx&source=&gclid=CjwKCAjwhcjVBRBHEiwAoDe5x1v49QRoZooYrsUj8QxH14dpnBCW8frcklMrCmO7xQvF74lrvYIVsRoCXvoQAvD_BwE

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 09:08:27 pm
content: Toploser might have an oven for sale still

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 09:38:30 pm
content: I've never found the need for a controller and I've done many hundreds of panels in a £40 toaster oven.IMO you do need to be able to control power, and run the elements only slightly glowing to reduce scorching - the inbuilt controls on ovens may or may nor be useful.I use a big variac as i already had one, but a triac controller would also do. I have used ovens with no external control at all. At a pinch maybe just a big diode to halve the power.I first got into reflowing a few years ago when I need to build a batch of boards quickly - this is how I did it using elements from the cheapest 2-slice toaster I could find :http://electricstuff.co.uk/smtoast.htmlIn your position, I'd suggest going down to a local electrical retailer and pick up a cheap toaster oven - something with a big window and heaters top & bottom, and a shelf that doesn't jump up & down when you open the door.And obviously use leaded paste for maximum reflow-to-incinerate margin.It really isn't nearly critical as you'd think.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 11:56:04 pm
content: Suggestion 1: contact a local hackspace.Suggestion 2: for single-sided boards, use a cheap saucepan, a gas ring, and a non-contact IR thermometer. Optionally with a layer of sand on the bottom to spread heat and provide a thermal buffer. FFI, see my .sig

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 03:10:55 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on March 21, 2018, 06:25:20 pmKaz, I am going to London Friday evening so could pick this up. That would be great!!Simon, what is your price? If I can borrow one from Kaz I might not buy today but might still buy one eventually.Thank you all for kind offers and advice!! It's nice to see the community here working together. Anyway, if you guys need something let me know.ManCave

author: Wilson
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 07:48:45 am
content: I will be buy too

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 07:58:51 am
content: Quote from: ManCave on March 22, 2018, 03:10:55 amuh how does 120 pounds sound ? I finish work at 12 on a friday hence I can do something in the actual afternoon.

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 02:31:43 pm
content: Simon,Which one is it? the original or an A version?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 02:45:15 pm
content: It's not an A version. The letters denote size, mine is the smaller one.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 02:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 21, 2018, 09:38:30 pm^^^ this. I built a controller some years ago, but only use it under manual on/off contro. I can also monitor the temperature to give a ball park idea. Mostly, though, I just look through the window and have good lighting shining in. Once the solder is melting throughout the board, leave for ten seconds more or so, turn off, open the the door, and gently pull out the shelf that the board's on.Trying to match a thermal profile with a controller I've found simply isn't possible with the ovens I've tried.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 05:39:26 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on March 22, 2018, 02:58:09 pmThat's exactly what I do - you get to know where any colder spots are, or how close to the edge you can get away with.The bright light is very important.If the joints are hard to see because of the part types, add some stencil apertures to put some dots of paste on the tooling bars or unused areas of the PCB to use as a "reflow detector" - spread them around the edge to show when all edges have reflowedMy oven pulls the shelf out as you open the door, avoiding the risk of bumping it

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 09:30:01 pm
content: Mike, Howard,Thanks very much for your suggestions.I will go and get one, but don't want to dick around for now as I'm extremely busy. I've arranged it with Kaz for the moment. I also found this oven which I'm gonna get and use in the future (hopefully):http://www.argos.co.uk/product/7193831?cmpid=GS001&_$ja=tsid:59157|cid:199888833|agid:17471076873|tid:aud-144400486596:pla-371198913754|crid:74692319553|nw:g|rnd:12587527381022126727|dvc:c|adp:1o1|mt:|loc:9046138&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqM3VBRCwARIsAKcekb3YkcI0csh5avnD_v593iOOUG7YTcV3D81NT-K825eRMytb9UkatbwaAqNREALw_wcBThanks again all for your input and thank you Kaz for letting me have your oven for the weekend!!!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 09:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: ManCave on March 22, 2018, 09:30:01 pmBe sure to leave a review on the Argos site- no mention of reflow performance in any of the current reviews

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 10:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 22, 2018, 09:57:49 pmYou mean so that they dont publish it. Reviews on websites are bullshit because the retailers censor them....... and argos is one of them. My review of their exercise bike that makes my penis go numb did not make the cut

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 10:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 22, 2018, 09:57:49 pmWill do

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2018, 12:22:46 am
content: Quote from: ManCave on March 22, 2018, 09:30:01 pmPlease let us know how you get on with the French monstrosity, I have a couple of them piled up that I really need to get rid of to new homes...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 01:25:11 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on March 21, 2018, 06:25:20 pmWhat makes it stupid?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 09:53:23 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 24, 2018, 01:25:11 amIf you ask an Englishman, they will answer "Because it's French" - and they will consider that a full explanation.As an Aussie, over the years, I had noticed there seemed to be some tensions between the English and the French, as well as between the Scots and the English - but when I was actually in the UK for a conference (sometime last century), I found there was a bit more to it.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 10:33:38 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on March 24, 2018, 01:25:11 amI was not implying the French are stupid but the oven is not made well when it comes to high voltage part. The power supply circuit is not made quite right (other threads about it here) - so quite stupid power design....

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 05:02:54 pm
content: Just reading the manual. And I thought Chinese manuals were entertaining"Playing with A or B buttons, the 8 following functions are accessible validating by the yellow C ""During cycle, the defect screen displays the different process levels.""9. MaintenanceClean the oven once a week thanks to a soft dust"

author: cstratton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 05:18:04 pm
content: Given you don't have an oven, you presumably also don't have an automatic pick and place.So for the amount of parts you can place in a day or two by hand, you might as well just use a hot air tool with the speed dialed down. I tend to do this under the soldering microscope at low power, so I can see and deal with any issues the develop as they happen.Another option is to use the tool to heat the board from below.Getting oven reflow to come out right requires skill and tuning which may not be there for a one-off board anyway. (Even established prototype assembly vendors routinely have flow issues).When you find a flaw in an oven-reflow board, you'll probably need the hot air tool to correct it anyway...

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 07:55:28 pm
content: Cstratton, you are right, I don't have an automatic p&p, but have built myself a manual one. Speeds up the process of placing components about 3-5 times, depending on how many BOM items there are.I have and use hot air station in combination with a hotplate preheated to 150°C to pre-soak the boards. However, using hot air station to reflow is slow and time does scale up with the number of components on the board and the size of the board as you need to move the air tool around, so I mainly use this for prototypes. Now I have 30+ boards to assemble and reflow. It's also a lot less controlled (temperature-wise) with the hot-air tool and these are not prototype boards so I want them to function ...and keep functioning.I can tune the oven settings with a couple of boards to start with and then as long as the production boards are positioned in the same place every time on the same program, they should mostly come out good. Inspection is necessary, of course, and some re-work will probably be too, but doing this with hot-air station doesn't guarantee no solder bridges or fully reflowed under an exposed pad IC and rework might still be necessary. My feeling is that I'm only gaining by using the reflow oven in this particular situation.

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 09:47:39 pm
content: What makes it stupid?readhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/deadly-insane-design-(cif-ft-02-reflow-oven)-teardown-rant-safety-fix/and then how they solved thishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/deadly-insane-design-(cif-ft-02-reflow-oven)-teardown-rant-safety-fix/msg695441/#msg695441

author: ManCave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2018, 11:17:29 pm
content: Quote from: mk_ on March 24, 2018, 09:47:39 pmoh wow!

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 04:01:49 am
content: A lot of reflow ovens are way overpriced... and the Chinese ones aren't necessarily good...You can, for around $100 USD, buy a good sized toaster oven, and the components to build your own... You may end up spending as much as $250 USD if you go overboard or for a much larger unit, etc.... or get a kit...But, building it yourself, with a good kit, is a great option - it is something I am planning on doing myself too....If I was in the UK and mine was done, I'd lend it in a heartbeat.......Anyway - if you go the purchase route, you'll spend about 4 to 5 times what you'd spend if you built one yourself for the same quality.... so consider making your own.... Obviously this won't be done by Friday - because the kit requires delivery - but if you find one to borrow then consider this for later... Paying less also means spending more on other things later...

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 09:06:29 am
content: QuoteThat's often said but I think it is largely wishful thinking. For one, you're unlikely to have access to kit to make molds and custom fittings, so your homer is going to look like a homer, most probably. Next, you won't have the many years of experience in developing the stuff, so you're going to spend a goodly amount of time finding all the pitfalls the manufacturer has already sorted out. It's quite likely that your first choice of components won't be quite right, so you'll be buying more because a) you have to buy 10-off to get one, b) you got the wrong thing the first time, and/or c) to replace the ones you broke.Which is not saying one shouldn't make one's own kit - often, the pleasure of doing it is enough justification. But there are limits. Sometimes one wishes tousetools rather than spend ones spare time trying to replicate them.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:36:03 pm
content: Whaddaya think of these? £22 quid!It's got heaters top and bottom.and the door looks like it will open gently. Not sure how well it'll keep the heat in mind.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rosewill-RHTO-13001-1500-W-6-Slice-Black-Toaster-Oven-Broiler-with-Drip-Pan/123117961016?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649I've ordered one anyway. I was thinking (searching) whether I should try Andy Brown's reflow controller, or the Controleo thing, but I think I might just eye-ball it all for now, after reading this discussionSpeaking of variacs BTW... would one of these do? It says 4kw, so I presume a proper variac rather than some kind of triac dimmer switch:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-220V-4000W-Variable-Voltage-Controller-For-Fan-Speed-Motor-temperature-Dimmer/192146732189?epid=13007568545&hash=item2cbcd6749d:g:YFQAAOSwIBxaemAZ

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:04:23 pm
content: QuoteThey are uncovered, so some parts of the board will scorch whilst others (in shadow) stay relatively cool.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 09, 2018, 09:04:23 pmDo you think it's a reasonable starting point though? Also, I'm not expecting any large components on my boards to shadow any others.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:19:39 pm
content: Maybe. The only real way to find out is to try it.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:20:07 pm
content: QuoteAll toaster ovens have uncovered elements. I've got a Severin 1.5kW oven and the heaters are arranged exactly the same way, two on the top and two on the bottom. Never scorched anything and had every single joint reflow. I'm also using a 0.25mm thick piece of brass sheet on top of the grill to keep the heat distribution even, besides, as some of the boards I've reflowed are so small I need the brass sheet to stop them falling through the grill.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:32:07 pm
content: QuoteMine doesn't. An Argos model from some years ago, the elements are hidden.QuoteSo not quite uncovered

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:46:50 pm
content: QuoteTrue,but I it's the air temperature that does most of the work, will have to measure later on just out of curiosity. Well I got that completely wrong. Measured the air temperature midway between the bottom element and the brass plate. When initially ramping the soak temperature up (around 100C) the air temerature was 10C hotter than the PCB but during reflow it was 60C cooler than PCB, so nothing to do with air temperature.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 06:51:33 am
content: Quote from: cstratton on March 24, 2018, 05:18:04 pmNot in my experience. Turn it on. wait for reflow, open the door. Job done.Obviously avoid lead-free paste

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 06:57:57 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 10, 2018, 06:51:33 amIsn't your business required to use it?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 07:02:30 am
content: Quote from: carl0s on May 09, 2018, 08:36:03 pmThat's not big enough to be a 4KVA variac, nowhere near

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 07:03:16 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2018, 06:57:57 amWho's gonna know?

author: Acecool
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 12:30:56 pm
content: I only use lead-free...There's no issue using it in a reflow oven - if you want a faster melt, simply mix additional flux in the paste..

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 04:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: Acecool on May 10, 2018, 12:30:56 pmLeaded gives you a wider margin between "reflow" and "incinerate"

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 04:31:34 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 10, 2018, 07:03:16 amWell, the internet now, I guess.