Intel Slot 2 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 09:03:36 pm
content: I'm slowly looking to build some pre 2000 decade backdated retros.Somehow I bought a couple Slot 2 Xeons and been confident I can easy find MB to fit these in, but... not so much available.Is it short-lived socket in Intel portfolio due to only Slot 1 Xeon issue fix (as per wiki)?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_2

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 12:04:10 am
content: As I recall Slot 2 was the Intel Servers/Workstation only CPU. As a result they would have sold in far fewer numbers than the Slot 1 consumer/prosumer boards. I don't doubt you could scrounge one up, anything has a price, but their scarcity is far from unexpected, and in the end they aren't much different, the extra pins on Slot II facilitated a faster/larger L2 cache, and I believe you're more likely to find SMP boards in Slot 2. Grabbing a Pentium 3 and an SE440BX-2 off Ebay is a popular option, beyond that Socket 370 boards and CPUs were fairly popular. Definitely an era where CPU form factors got whacky.And don't even forget Slot A...

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 02:16:16 am
content: I have an Intel MS440GX dual slot 2 with a pair of 900 MHz 2MB Pentium 3 Xeons which I just retired last year when the boot RAID developed bad sectors. I could refurbish it and might but software options are becoming pretty limited for anything earlier than a Pentium 4.I suspect the issue with availability after 20 years is simply that CPUs are more likely to have survived than motherboards.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on April 16, 2020, 02:16:16 amIndeed, especially as the omnimysterious, omnipresent capacitor plague of the late 90's and early 2000's falls right into this time period.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 12:09:38 pm
content: Quote from: Ampera on April 17, 2020, 12:02:55 pmI got the board not long after 2000 and it has run continuously since then, plus whatever time it ran before I got it, and there have been no problems so I suspect being an Intel board, it did not suffer from the capacitor plague. It really only needs new fans.I also have an Intel OR840 which is dual slot 1. It was their RAMBUS based workstation board which did not work out so well.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 07:02:06 pm
content: I have pair of Pentium III Xeon 800 Mhz and looking to maximize a build for Windows NT 4 Workstation load.No sure why I skipped Socket 370, thought it will underperforming compare to Slot 2.In my understanding, 440GX is only chip that provides a maximum available memory for this type of machine, right?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 07:20:52 pm
content: Socket 370 doesn't necessarily under/overperform compared to Slot 2, iirc it's really just a socketized Slot 1, the difference being it outlived Slot 1 and had faster chips available for it.Intel didn't bother with a P3 Xeon socket, skipping straight to the NetBurst architecture chips, while having some of the faster P3 Xeons be available for Slot 2I don't have the numbers in front of me, as it's hard, even with the fewer variables during this era than we have now, to compare CPUs in terms of their capabilities, but I would take a wager that a high end Coppermine chip would likely be about the same as any P3 Xeon of its calibre, and a 130nm Tulatin P3 would completely destroy any and all P3 Xeons per CPU.As for chipset,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets#Pentium_Pro/II/III_chipsetsthis is a helpful link that shows all of the capabilities of the different chipsets of the day. It looks like the 450NX provides up to 8GB, as the memory controllers are on the motherboard, you might even be able to get this on 1-2 CPUs (PAE is a neat, if crude, trick)At the end of the day, it's not of too much consequence debating what CPU is better or whatever, you should do what /you/ want here. Different options will be harder to put together, different things will cost more/less, but since you're presumably just trying to stick some old parts together and have some fun, speed probably isn't too important.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 07:52:28 pm
content: Thanks for the details.Windows NT 4 Workstation is supported maximum 4GB and 450NX chip is more like for server only (no AGP), isn't?8GB must be a huge memory set 20+ years ago...I am trying to build a practical machine for heavy apps (aka CADs) run under NT4, so no just connect wires togetherLooks like I will need spend some time in PC mazine archives and figure out if still worth spend $$ on Slot 2 MB or consider 370 (assuming NT4 was still fully supported).P3 Slot 2 CPUs literarily cost me $20 both, not a lot to write down.P.S.I have dual 604 socket MB with 2.8Ghz Xeons, but manufacturer said Hyper-Treading support available in NT/2000 Server editions only or XP Pro - that's for another build

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 08:12:32 pm
content: Windows NT4 can only do up to 4GB as I believe the kernel did not support PAE at that time. Windows 2000 supports up to 8GB PAE in Advanced Server. The 450NX chip is for servers, but so are the Xeons, really.If you're building a practical machine then you're barking up the wrong tree. Despite DHess's longstanding use of old P3 era hardware for practical modern applications, almost anything else would be infinitely better using virtualization through something like QEMU+KVM, or even running stuff on Wine as it tends to have better backwards compatibility for some programs than modern versions of Windows. If you're on Windows, just running older versions straight in VMWare Player is fine enough.That being said, if the goal is to make modern practical use of old machines, power to you, a year ago I ordered a pizza using my 486 and a telephone modem (no joke), so there's always something you can do with them.Also, as for early hyperthreading, it was an infamous disaster, barely improving performance, if not reducing it on a lot of applications. I wasn't around then, so I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't bank on it. OS support will be NT only, as the 9x kernels did not support multiple CPUs, but NT4 should work just fine. Microsoft has been known to artificially limit the amount of RAM and CPUs their OSes could use, so just check which versions you need. Everything should be up on WinWorldPC.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 10:21:36 pm
content: My Intel MS440GX with the GX chipset supports 2GB which is what I have installed. I only ran XP on it. One thing to beware of with these old boards is that the Pentium 3 boards are AGP 2x so they require a 3.3 volt AGP card. The Pentium 4 boards are AGP 4x at 1.5 volts. Not all AGP cards are interchangeable with both as I discovered.The slot 1 and especially slot 2 CPUs could support a lot more last level cache than the socket parts. My slot 2 Xeons have 2 MBytes of cache which was a lot back then. They also have massive heat sinks for passive cooling although there are external fans for cooling the slot 2 processor which is occluded by its neighbor.Note that Windows XP supports PAE and more than 2 GBytes of physical RAM before service pack 2. At the time nobody had more than 2 GBytes of RAM so there was no need for Microsoft to cripple it until service pack 2. Of course XP with service pack 1 is pretty limited and whether every driver will work correctly in PAE mode is another issue entirely.XP also supports disk volumes larger than 2 TBytes with 48 bit logical block access if you use sectors larger than 512 bytes. (1) I actually tested this a couple weeks ago when I was migrating a system off of XP. Windows 10 under the same conditions does *not* as it prevents you from creating a partition larger than 2 TBytes out of spite unless 64 bit logical block access is used.(1) How to accomplish this is an exercise for the reader.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 11:48:26 am
content: That's good points, thanksActually, I tried Windows NT 4 SP6 under VMWare Workstation 15.5 and it supports up to 3GB RAM and 1 CPU only.Out of interest, found ZD Winstone/WinMark 99 benchmark suite to compare against know results backed in PC magazines.3600X core thread beat at least ten times 20+ years Pentium III, very unlikely Pentium III Xeons will make much difference.I would expect a similar result VMware SVGA vs Matrox Millennium G400, but cannot verify it.Unfortunately, I will no able to use some cards in VM scenario and potentially issues due to "unknown" high-clock CPU...

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2020, 11:16:00 am
content: Server 2003 also supports PAE and all the fixings, whose kernel you can easily transplant into Windows XP SP3 (which I have done myself).Indeed the CPUs support more cache, which is the entire point of why they stuck them on cards, but if that's worth it I imagine will be dependent a bit on application and numbers I can't determine using my brain alone.If you're looking for decent graphics being virtualized, look elsewhere, it's something that's notoriously difficult and rare to virtualize, and NT doesn't exactly support all too many PCIe GPUs for PCIe redirection. You'll get respectable 2D acceleration, but not much more. Still confused as to your use case here.

author: supercordo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2021, 01:06:41 am
content: Hello, Sorry to resurrect this old topic. Please dont ban me. I just bought an Intergraph TDZ 2000 GX1 and it has the Intel MS440GX motherboard. I have 2 900Mhz cpus but cant get them to work without the cache being disabled. How were you able to get the 900Mhz cpus to work on your MS440GX?Thanks,

author: ttx450
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2021, 11:16:28 pm
content: believe my abit be-6 supported slot 2. still have it, over clocked all its life..works good

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2021, 03:35:50 am
content: Quote from: supercordo on March 29, 2021, 01:06:41 amI did not have to do anything special. It came that way from Intel.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2021, 06:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on April 19, 2020, 11:48:26 amWindows NT 4 came in various versions. The NT4 workstation supported 2 CPUs, Server supported 4 CPUs, and the Server Enterprise supported 8.I dunno what limits you here to 1 CPU. Possibly a limitation related to VMWare.