Amazon box-shifting amateurs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 04:12:14 am
content: Bought a cheap scope which developed a fault. Wanted to get it replaced, Amazon said no but they would refund and I'd repurchase it. The price has gone up so I queried if they'd make up the difference since it's under one year old... no he says "...but Sir, I've found you an alternative within the budget of your refund..." <Proceeds to describe... A MULTIMETER!!>Lol

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 04:48:23 am
content: Learn a lesson and do not buy cheap shit.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 05:00:40 am
content: "Buy once, cry once."

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 07:04:19 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 10, 2020, 04:48:23 amThanks for the lecture, but I wanted a cheap scope so I got one, had I not wanted a cheap scope I'd not have got one, capish? I needed one for a specific application, not as a universal replacement for a quality DSO.I love it when strangers feel it their "duty" to tell others what they should and shouldn't buy

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 07:18:18 am
content: Quote from: eti on October 10, 2020, 07:04:19 am... especially when the price alone, paying more for something, is a very crappy way to "guarantee" quality.I choose products by doing homework early on. Nothing sucks more than paying premium for total and utter unfixable crap.But people who pop up to lecture "do not buy cheap products" are usually not the very brightest minds on the planet. They may not notice the shortcomings of their expensive products, because they are used as status symbols.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2020, 09:23:15 pm
content: I see you are UK based.Under UK law, goods must work for 1 year.The retailer must hounor this.They may choose to repair or replace BUT they must provide goods that work and are suitable for the purpose.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 03:24:26 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on October 10, 2020, 07:18:18 amI'm one of those people. I do it for myself. I have no time for unnecessary aggravations and future repurchases.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 04:10:42 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on October 10, 2020, 09:23:15 pmWell.. no..The Consumer Rights Act 2015 grants the rights for goods under a contract of sale to a consumer to be of satisfactory quality, as described, fit for purpose, or match a sample or model. If you make a claim within the first six months, any defect must be assumed to have been present on delivery. Otherwise, you have to prove that the defect was pre-existing or the quality was not satisfactory taking into account the description and price. The limitation on that is as for all basic contracts -sixyears (Limitation Act 1980).Also, they do not have to supply a replacement or repair if it is not feasible.Unless there's another law I'm not familiar with.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 11:26:49 am
content: Works the other way, I returned a faulty product that was now available for something like £70 less than I paid for it. Was more than happy to get a credit refund.I could have repurchase the same item and been £70 better off, but decided to go for a more expensive model instead

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 08:56:28 pm
content: I do not agree with your interpretation of the consumer rights act.Try reading thishttps://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchangeAll goods (at least sold in UK) must be fit for purpose and last a reasonable amount of time.For me, it does not matter how cheap the scope is, I expect it to least AT LEAST 1 year (unless they specifically state that there is a time limit on how long it will last) preferably longer.You are definutely entitled to a repair or replacement.You do not need to prove the scope was faulty when sold, that is not what you descibed.The scope has now developed a fault - in my view it has not lasted a reasonable amount of time.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 09:04:52 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 10, 2020, 04:48:23 amDon't worry, it happens with the expensive shit too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 09:49:51 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on October 11, 2020, 08:56:28 pmI've read the law, thank you.QuoteYes, that is essentially what the law says, as I said..QuoteAnd I don't disagree, but that does not equate to 'goods must work for 1 year'.QuoteIf they are able..QuoteYou need to prove the fault was not created by your usage, fair wear and tear, modification, and so forth. Your link even states this:Quote

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 12:49:39 am
content: I'll hear no more bad spoken of Amazon. They're clearly very very caring, because they even took the time to package each SINGLE 95g "Dairy Milk" chocolate bar I bought (on the same order) in its own individual card envelope...Yeah, and that's why all this "environmentally friendly" horse sh##, when parroted by corporations, is precisely that.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 02:21:52 am
content: There's a term "greenwashing" that seems to apply

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 02:14:04 pm
content: Quote from: eti on October 13, 2020, 12:49:39 amI wouldn't be surprised if they put each one in those envelopes upon receiving, before putting them on the shelf. Probably had too many problems with them getting broken.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2020, 07:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 13, 2020, 02:14:04 pmHighlyunlikely!

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 05:09:17 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on October 10, 2020, 09:23:15 pmI believe you forgot "or they can provide a full refund, which trumps all that". Amazon chose the simple and easy solution.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 02:07:25 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 14, 2020, 05:09:17 amWell, no, you as the consumer canrequirea repair or replacement, which they must provide if they are able.https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/23

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 06:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 14, 2020, 02:07:25 pmI don't think that section says what you believe it to say.However, I have successfully litigated against a supplier who failed to supply - in my case they sold some shop-damaged item at a steep discount to me, but failed to deliver because they'd also sold (and delivered it) to someone else. I purchased a new version of the item elsewhere and then took them to the small claims for the difference in price plus my costs. Despite being a large UK retailer with in-house legal and a reputation for intransigence, they caved in a couple of days before the case and paid up in full. I think they would not have done that if I hadn't had a solid case against them.The situation with Amazon is not the same, though. Amazon have elected to provide a refund which allows the punter to replace the item in a way he sees fit (that is, by actually replacing it or just using the refund as compensation). Amazon have essentially repaired or replaced the item by doing that.AFAICS, there are only two things one could quibble about:1. There are no replacements that could be purchased. Amazon are still probably OK here since 23.3(a) excludes an impossible task.2. The refund is less than the current cost of a replacement. Tricky - you'd have to factor in wear and tear.If pushed, Amazon might up the refund to the current cost if you happen to be a valuable customer, but more likely is that you'd need to take them to small claims. I have a had a claim against Amazon which was much more cut and dried than this one but elected not spoil our relationship for the possible return I'd get, sopracticallyI think this would be lost fight even if you could legally claim for the difference in price.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 06:28:43 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 14, 2020, 06:00:50 pmThen please pray tell what does it say?QuoteThat is not their choice.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 06:42:09 pm
content: QuoteWhat makes it not their choice?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 06:47:00 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 14, 2020, 06:42:09 pmThe right to require a replacement or repair, and the fact the law requires you to do this before you can require a refund or rejection?QuoteIf Amazon still have the product stocked they have no argument under 23(3). They can, indeed,offera refund, but the right torequirea replacement (or repair) is with the consumer. They cannot make the choice for the consumer.Unless I've missed a clause allowing them to duck out of all obligations because they're inconvenient.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 07:51:53 pm
content: That section is defining what the consumer can and can't do, not what the supplier can (or can't). That part is also conditional: "A consumer who has the right to a price reduction and the final right to reject may...", so what about a consumer who doesn't have the right to a price reduction, and what has triggered this right to the price reduction?I think you are also assuming that the right to require replacement or repair is exclusionary. To take it to extremes for effect, if the supplier offered to give him £1m and 20 virgins instead of replacing or repairing the part-empty Biro, your take is that that's not on. Would a court tell the supplier not to fart around with all that money and just give him a new pen? And, BTW, pay the £40 fees on your way out too...Finally, at least briefly, "...and without significant inconvenience to the consumer." I would suggest that a refund is actually a better solution for the consumer since it means he can obtain the services of a different, hopefully better, supplier and/or product. Certainly, I don't see a full refund as significantly inconvenient (particularly compared to, say, a repair).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 09:02:08 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 14, 2020, 07:51:53 pmYou could read the whole lot to answer that.QuoteThey can offer whatever they like. What they're obliged to do if the consumer wishes to utilize his rights is different.QuoteThat is the option to use the right of refund if they have failed tofirstfulfill their obligation to replace or repair.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 09:41:13 pm
content: OK, well to take a different tack, let's assume that you have a faulty product and want a replacement. Won't settle for refund or repair.Ignoring that a replacement could be a refurb, you ask for such and are told that's not an option. Fine, you know your rights and aren't one of the more than 90% that won't actually follow through on a 'see you in court' bluff. You go through the motions and wind up a single form away from directing the full might of the law against them. All you have to do is state what your claim is and what will fix it.So, what will fix it? (Clue: this is a civil thing so 2 years in some penal colony isn't appropriate.) Clearly, a replacement would be good. How toforcethem to give you that? Well, other than an armed hold-up the accepted route would be to go out and buy one yourself, then claim the cost from them. But... you can't go and buy that Ebay 'not in stock so we'll price it at 1000x to put people off' special. You have to take reasonable care and if one is available at the same price (or less!) without undue hassle then that's what you have to get.Congratulations: you just got yourself a full refund. Except that instead of getting it upfront you've had to write letters, fill in forms, research consumer law and wait a few months to find out if you will succeed. And probably become persona non grata at your original supplier.