Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 02:21:37 pm
content: Hi!I'm about to buy a new DMM. I'm looking for an advance DMM in the 200 - 250 € price rangeI find a 87 V, for 260 € unused (see photo) and i'm also looking for the new BM789 about 190€ (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM789-Multimeter)The DMM will be used as a bench meter.So: Which one ?!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 03:01:35 pm
content: 1) Buy the Fluke, sell it for 400 Euros on eBay (it has lots of accessories!)2) Buy the Brymen3) Profit!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 03:05:23 pm
content: BM789

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 03:09:06 pm
content: Why not keeping the Brymen BM869s that you just sold (to me)?PS: I love the Fluke 87V

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 03:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on February 22, 2021, 03:09:06 pmHope you enjoy the 869. Why i'm looking for something différent? ->> Auto Hold !

author: Doddy883
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 08:10:30 pm
content: BM789.I own a Fluke 83V and have used an 87V, and I prefer the Brymen. It's much nicer to use, for example remembering the last used function on that switch selection and backlight staying on. Extra features include low impedance volts, dual temperature, dBm, non-contact voltage.The smoothing function on the Fluke is nice though. Not sure if the Brymen does that, I haven't checked the power-on options yet. Let me know if there's anything particular you'd like me to test with the Brymen and I'll see what I can do

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 08:29:06 pm
content: Buy the fluke. The Brymen will have the retarded “remember which sub mode” thing which makes them a chore to use. Also the 87V is an extremely mature design and the Brymen isn’t.Auto hold on the 87V is top notch.

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 08:42:54 pm
content: I likely go for the Fluke if it was either or as that's an excellent price, but the silicon leads that come with the Brymen are SEXY! MMmmmmmmmmm so soft and luxurious. As a bench meter you might not care: but the Brymen Non-contact voltage detector is excellent, whereas with Fluke I believe it doesn't have it.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 08:52:07 pm
content: It is a difficult decision IMO. Brymen has a lot more features and counts, but the Fluke has more bandwidth and a few modes such as the null bargraph that is very interesting, although very niche. If you can get the full lifetime warranty on the Fluke, that is another plus for it.Good luck in your decision.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 09:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 22, 2021, 08:52:07 pmBM789 has 100kHz bandwidth, opposed to 87V 20kHz....

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2021, 10:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 22, 2021, 09:50:41 pmYou are absolutely right, Sinisa. I was thinking about the BM786, which is rated for 1kHz.In this case I think the decision is much easier. The BM789 is a much better choice IMO.

author: nez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 12:44:05 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 22, 2021, 10:10:40 pmI thought 7kHz?

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 01:56:25 am
content: If you can get the Fluke for that cheap,forsureget that instead of the Brymen.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 07:29:47 am
content: Quote from: drussell on February 23, 2021, 01:56:25 amWhy?Brymen is same or better quality and safety, 3 times better resolution, many measurements and refinements F87V doesn't have, better accuracy... It is hands down better meter for electronics.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 08:29:22 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 23, 2021, 07:29:47 amSo you can sell it for a profit and buy a Brymen.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 08:36:07 am
content: Quote from: Doddy883 on February 22, 2021, 08:10:30 pmQuote from: bd139 on February 22, 2021, 08:29:06 pmDon't forget the Fluke always restarts in AC current mode - incredibly annoying, especially if you're switching between uA and mA and it keeps resetting.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 08:48:08 am
content: Safety feature. If you read 0A because it’s in DC mode then touch the circuit. Bzzt.Also you always know what mode the Fluke is in. With the Brymen you have to work it out every damn time from the plethora of annunciators. Lots of room for error and lots of time wasted.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 08:56:22 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 23, 2021, 08:48:08 amAt least the bar graph will be flickering....unlike if you read 0A because it's in AC mode and the current is DC.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 08:58:38 am
content: That’s a good point but no certainty there.Answer is clearly “buy a Fluke 189”

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 09:15:48 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 23, 2021, 08:58:38 amAlso, I'm pretty sure Brymens have DC+AC mode, even the non-dual-display models. My "old-school" BM857 certainly does. You can just put it in that mode and leave it there.(Edit: On mine it shows "the total effective RMS value regardless of the waveform")Or ... if you work in places where a mistake like that could be extremely annoying, get yourself a current clamp.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 09:35:44 am
content: The DC+AC mode is extremely slow on the 867 at least. Almost unusably slow. It looks like it zeroes then takes a sample in each mode alternately.Current clamp, yep agree.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 09:39:14 am
content: Unless they have changed it, and I doubt it, the 87V defaults to AC current every time you change to a current range.This is very annoying for people who switch between mA and uA a lot.Every time you switch between them you have to press the button to get it back to DC mode.One of these days I will open it up and stick a 50c MCU in there to detect range changes and automatically press the button.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 10:07:10 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 23, 2021, 09:39:14 amThe Fluke 87III used to default to DC mode so they obviously changed it once and they're not going to change it back again.Yep. It should maybe do itoncewhen you power it on but it does it every time you move the selector.It could really be a configurable thing, IMHO, but I've heard they won't do that because of all the written procedures and manuals out there which say things like "move the selctor to mA then press the button to go to DC mode".

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 01:59:50 pm
content: That’s important in safety critical usage of any system: determinism. If you have to make inferences mid process then that goes out of the window. Which is the problem with the Brymen system.Default to safe. Default to a known condition. Stateless is best.I used to work in the defence sector years ago on such systems and designed and built a user interface prototyping system which allowed these costly mistakes to be made in software first. We developed a library of conditions where non deterministic behaviour caused safety problems. This would fit right in.I now work in finance sector trying to avoid this stuff. Citibank fucked this up recently with their loan repayment system and lost $500m. Amazing what a couple of user interface cock ups can do

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 03:54:07 pm
content: OK!Looks like we have devided opinions...May be i will wait sometime until someone decides to make a good review of the BM789...I did ask Joe (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg) about a review of BM789, he said he already have the meter, but was buzzy with other projectsWait and seeCan some one tell me what a 87V can do that a BM789 can't?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 04:01:08 pm
content: That's a good approach. I'm going to wait until it's in some people's hands and they worked the bugs out.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 05:42:21 pm
content: Quote from: NEMAON on February 23, 2021, 03:54:07 pmGet you past security if you're casing a site for a robbery.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 05:45:45 pm
content: Also the floozies know you're not a cheap ass

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 07:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 23, 2021, 05:45:45 pm

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 07:44:00 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 23, 2021, 05:45:45 pmIf you find a floozie that knows what a Fluke 87V is thenmaybeshe's a keeper.OTOH if you find one that knows what a Brymen BM789 is, she'sdefinitelya keeper.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 11:09:46 pm
content: If that it were so simple… [mirthless chuckle]87V is my favorite meter by far, the one I use the most, always on my bench. I like everything about it – its display (digit size, proportion and spacing), its rotary dial (not too crowded), I even like the fact that it powers up in 6000 count mode by default (you don’t need the extra digit in the “Hi res” 20,000 count mode all the times - too many digits can be confusing when you don’t need them). It seems to hold its calibration forever and has an impressive resale value (not that I ever plan to sell it).Having said that, I also have other meters to choose from when needed - a couple of audio millivoltmeters, a bench DMM with 300 KHz AC bandwidth, 6 ½ digits precision, and 17V diode test (guess which one), a Fluke 189 (my second favorite) and even a BM869S (which I seldom use).If I were forced to choose only one of the two you mention, I would probably choose the BM789, based on what it looks like on paper and Dave’s endorsement of Brymen meters. Luckily, I’m not.Does BM789 have an auto-hold function similar to the one on 87V and 189?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2021, 11:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on February 23, 2021, 11:09:46 pmYes and diode mode also.You can say that it was designed specifically to address all the complaints F87V users had to otherwise excellent Brymens.Functionally, safety and quality wise it is on par or better on all accounts.F87V is excellent quality meter, but it is simple meter that lacks many features for electronics. Many love exactly fro that reason, because they like simple.I don't. I like powerful and fully featured.BM789 beats F87V by significant margin, even if they were same price.. For less than half the money it's not very hard decision...

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 03:26:32 am
content: Quote from: NEMAON on February 22, 2021, 02:21:37 pmAt those prices you can’t go wrong with either, but the Fluke price if it’s new with a lifetime warranty is a little more rare/special.I’ve had a Fluke 179 for about 20 years and just got a Brymen 789. The 789 holds it’s own in almost every respect and does more and better in other respects - although as some have pointed out the selector choices/markings on the Brymen are so feature rich that sometimes you have to look and think for an extra second or so; you need to decide if the extra functionality might be worth an extra look-see button push.As best I can tell against each other and against a 34465A they are comparably confidence inspiring, although the 179 is not as well suited as the 87V or the 789 for electronics - so you have a tough decision. I am guessing that there is a chance you can happily go a long time with one or the other but you might spend all or some of that long time still thinking about the other. Even though it took me about 7 years of reading about Brymens to break down and buy the 789 I am still admiring the 87V, so it might come down to picking the one that enables you to dream about the other one less.Seriously, I’d say if there is something(s) the Brymen does the Fluke doesn’t that you need or want, go with the Brymen. If not and you simply have a desire to own a 87V, go with that.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 03:56:22 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 23, 2021, 11:45:24 pmNice!Quote from: 2N3055 on February 23, 2021, 11:45:24 pmNot on all of them. A quick look on the published specs shows that BM789 current bandwidth is limited to 3 KHz (or not spec'd over). 87V goes up to 20 KHz. Also, analog frequency measurements are limited to 50 KHz on BM789. 87V goes up to 200 KHz. Another example: AC current accuracy of BM789 is 0.9% + 20 digits, whereas in 87V is 1% + 2 digits. What's the point of having an extra digit of precision (over 87V's 6000 counts low-res mode) if the extra digit does not actually mean anything? Just to claim more counts? Same for AC voltage - in the range 7-20 KHz, BM789 claims an accuracy of 2% + 60 digits vs 0.7% + 2 digits in 87V. Not only BM789 is less accurate, but it also add an extra digit of nothingness, as a bonus. Correct me if I'm reading these specs wrong...All in all, it's not a bad meter though. BM789 alone can do more things than 87V alone, for a lower price, which makes it a great choice as one's only meter.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 23, 2021, 11:45:24 pmAgree... Shame on Fluke that they dumped the 187/189 series. Might be part of their strategy to have us buy more instruments if we want to do more things. I can see how meters like Brymen's look like winners.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 23, 2021, 11:45:24 pmIt depends on what exactly one is doing and what other instruments one has on his bench... For instance, I would not be able to adjust directly the bias frequency of any tape recorder in my collection with a BM789 (but I can do it with 87V). Of course, there are things my 87V can't measure but a BM789 could (and I do have other means to measure those...)As far as I am concerned, if I'd ever buy another Brymen, it would be a BM235 (for its size and simplicity). I hope I'll resist

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 05:00:33 am
content: https://www.welectron.com/mediafiles/datasheets/brymen/Brymen_BM780_Datasheet.pdfhttps://www.fluke-direct.com/pdfs/cache/www.fluke-direct.com/87-5/datasheet/87-5-datasheet.pdf

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 07:44:14 am
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on February 24, 2021, 03:56:22 amSo you can see very small changes, eg. battery discharge at uA current.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 08:06:34 am
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on February 24, 2021, 03:56:22 amWhy nobody reads datasheets instead of I don't know what? No, it is not more accurate, and those quoted specs are not correct:BM789: 100 kHz bandwidth in AC best accuracy 0.5 % (50/60 Hz)87V: 20 kHz bandwidth in AC best accuracy 0.7 % (50/60 Hz) (for 5-20 kHz on 60V and 600V range there is not even a specification)Note from F87V specification:For Model 87 in the 41⁄2-digit mode, multiply the number of least significant digits (counts) by 10.AC conversions are ac-coupled and valid from 3 % to 100 % of range. Model 87 is true-rmsresponding. AC crest factor can be up to 3 at full scale, 6 at half scale. For non-sinusoidal waveforms add -(2 % Rdg + 2 % full scale) typical, for a crest factor up to 3.Which means if you put F87V in 41⁄2-digit mode it is also percentage+20 digits. And it's percentage is worse.BM789 frequency measurement : 1 MHz87V frequency measurement : 200 kHzBM789: LOW Z and NCV detection87V : NOetc, etc..87V is outclassed by BM789 both in functions and specifications, in every aspect.That doesn't make F87V bad or bad choice. It is a legend of a meter. Really.But BM789 is simply better. In every aspect.As for lifetime warranty, for the price of F87V, I'll buy 2-3 BM789 and take my chances.Or better, buy BM789 now, and in few years, when world keeps going forward, buy new modern meter of new generation and profit from progress.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 08:16:42 am
content: Serious question: has anyone had any Brymen stuff calibrated / adjusted by a third party? My local cal house won’t touch their stuff.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 08:28:22 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 24, 2021, 08:16:42 amYes, and some had published reports here. Martin72 for instance.Welectron has cal. service.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 08:48:36 am
content: There might beonething the Fluke can do that the Brymen can't.I believe the Fluke can center the bar graph in the middle of the screen and show positive/negative voltages on it. Haven't tried it myself though because I don't own one (see below).Maybe Dave can suggest that to Brymen.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 24, 2021, 08:06:34 amYep. That famous "lifetime warranty" isn't free.(and probably wouldn't even work in my country where we don't have a Fluke office on every corner)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 09:13:11 am
content: ....and smoothing function to make fast changing signals readable on the display.

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 09:44:24 am
content: Thank you all for your opinions,I'm gonna go with the BM789 (Price,features, overall quality) and i undesrstand that the 87V is still a very good DMM.

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 10:49:00 am
content: By the way, i was also looking at the 121GW, very promesing en paper, and in my price range...But, looks like it still have many bugs and mechanical problems...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 11:47:42 am
content: Please drop a review in here when you get it

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 12:20:43 pm
content: Quote from: NEMAON on February 24, 2021, 09:44:24 amWill you let the world know the secret of where to buy a Fluke87V with lots of accessories for 260 Euros?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 12:30:09 pm
content: There’s usually a few lurking on eBay here for around 250-260 and they usually take offers. I only paid £130 for mine though

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 01:04:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 24, 2021, 12:20:43 pmhttps://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/1932146200.htmFrench seller, but usualy they can ship allover the places if you pay for shipping

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 02:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 24, 2021, 11:47:42 amSure

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 03:27:38 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 24, 2021, 08:06:34 amOK, I was reading them wrong, thanks for clarifying. In case one wonders, the "I don't know what" were the general specifications on Fluke 87V's webpage (the blurb, not the actual datasheet detailed by ranges), coupled with wrong assumptions (on what the numbers refer to...) and things I thought I remember. I did read the BM789 datasheet.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 24, 2021, 08:06:34 amI was actually referring to the AC current bandwidth (not AC voltage). BM789 AC current bandwidth is spec'd up to 3 KHz. Fluke's is (indeed) spec'd up to 2 KHz, though I am quite sure I've checked it in the past in a real setup up to 20KHz and it never dropped under 3dB (so the 20 KHz figure got stuck in my head as a real spec). BM789 might go well above 3 KHz as well. Does it?Quote from: 2N3055 on February 24, 2021, 08:06:34 amAgain, I did read the BM789 datasheet. If I did it right, 1 MHz is the logic level frequency upper limit. Sine wave sensitivity is spec'd up to 50 KHz only, inferring that the meter cannot measure reliably sine wave frequency beyond 50 KHz (87V goes up to 200 KHz with no issues). Is this right?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 04:03:02 pm
content: Quote from: NEMAON on February 24, 2021, 01:04:02 pmOooh, there's a 189 for 325 Euros!https://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/1919554787.htmI bet that'll be sold 10 minutes from now.Edit: And a Fluke 37:https://www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/1930009253.htm

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 04:04:02 pm
content: I have both, they work just fine, but I usually go for the 87V.In fact, all the advanced functions are so rarely needed that I forget how to use them.A handheld meter has only limited ways to support complex functions, and then the userinterface gets unintuitive and murky.If I need something tricky, I use Keysight benchtop models (34465A, e.g.).

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 09:26:46 pm
content: The BM789 has without a doubt more features. But what does that mean? Probably you will sell it in a year or two when the new BM789BT with bluetooth and even more features will enter the market. And so on, and so on.I bought a BM257s because my Fluke 179 couldn't handle uA and logging. While specs and quality are great the Brymen drove me nuts. Cycling through ohm, diode, cont, cap cost me half my lifetime. I also never liked the elongated lcd font. I finally sold it and still use the Fluke (and a Metravo 4E for uA).A multimeter is a tool and should become a part of yourself, operated blindly. Everything between me and what I intend to do can become a problem, even features can be annoying if they are rarely used.So yes, the BM789 is a feature-rich piece of equipment, the 87v is just one of the best tools ever made.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 10:35:29 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on February 24, 2021, 03:27:38 pmNot sure if I'm measuring apples to what is supposed to be oranges but when I feed the 789 with a 1.5 MHz sinewave from my generator the 798 reads 1.5000 MHz (it goes almost but not quite to 1.6 MHz). At 99,998 Hz it will show 99.998 kHz; at 99,999 Hz it will show 099.99 kHz. If I feed it 1234.1 Hz it will display 1.2341 kHz. At 1234.19 Hz it will still display 1.2341 kHz, but at 1234.20 Hz it will rollover and display 1.2342 kHz. So it maybe it rounds up? Mostly it's a bit limited by the number of digits it can display but within the realm of what it can display it seems to count accurately (with the possible exception of rounding). Someone else might want to confirm. FWIW, I wouldn't buy a DMM primarily for fractions of a second on kHz, I'd use other counters for that. Overall, it's a very fine DMM, IMO.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2021, 10:42:44 pm
content: Quote from: pjwum on February 24, 2021, 09:26:46 pmHi pjwum,I think this is insightful and has good merit:"A multimeter is a tool and should become a part of yourself, operated blindly. Everything between me and what I intend to do can become a problem, even features can be annoying if they are rarely used."I'm not sure about the blindly part if taken literally, but I think it is possible for some equipment to offer enough "extra" features to get between the user and the task in a manner that can contribute to error.Very nice first post and welcome!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 09:23:38 am
content: Quote from: pjwum on February 24, 2021, 09:26:46 pmBy that reasoning the Hioki DT4282 beats the Fluke hands down. It has tons of features, dual display, crazy wide ranges (eg. 600MOhm!), data logging, shuttered input jacks, etc., , but still manages to have separate selector positions for continuity/ohms/capacitance. And it'sfast.That's what I'd buy if I was rich.Read the specs and dream.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 11:04:12 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 09:23:38 amFungus, by your reasoning you should take a hard look at the U1282A when you become rich and famous: its accuracy is comparable to the DT4282 but better in many aspects such as DC and AC accuracy (some lose to the Hioki), half the burden voltage, 20A rated, 1ms peak and continuity detect, better capacitance meter, J/K type probe support, IP67, free datalogging... To name a few.https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-04867/data-sheets/5992-0847.pdfDespite I personally wouldn't dismiss the Brymen as fast (my BM857 is going on for eight years now), what pjwum mentions is something that transcends the features and is not easily palpable through writing and spec sheets - the 87 series has a feel on the hand and an ease of use that is hard to match. The closest I got to that was with the 170 series (175/177/179) and the pocketmeter Sanwa PM300. The simpler BM857 has that touch as well but it has rough edges here and there.It may be dmmphooleryTM, but its usage brings this "feel good" impression.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 25, 2021, 11:04:12 amThe Keysights looks a bit too massive and far too orange. Maybe I need just to hold one in my hand? I also heard the selector switch breaks after a couple of thousand turns.I'm not sure what to think of the continuity speed on the Hioki. 10ms spec sounds slow but every single review I've seen shows it as incredibly fast, not one complaint even when they compare it directly to a Fluke 87V.Besides, Hioki is a way cooler name than "Keysight" (which I always hear in Daves Aussie voice in my head...)Quote from: rsjsouza on February 25, 2021, 11:04:12 amRe: Brymen's remembering their state when you switch them off...As a fellow BM857 owner I can say that "less function overloading on the buttons" was definitely a factor in choosing the BM857 over the higher-spec-and-more-features BM859.In practice the only range I have to toggle on my BM857 is the ohms/continuity range and it's a single button press to switch between them.All the rest stay right where I left them (eg. DC current). For ohms/continuity you can either look for the continuity symbol on screen or just touch the probes together to check if it's "wrong". I usually touch the probes together when I'm starting to test continuity anyway, so...On other Brymen models with more features it might be more of a bother. YMMV.Quote from: rsjsouza on February 25, 2021, 11:04:12 amNo, some meters definitely have a cuteness factor. eg. There's something about the Aneng AN8008 meters that I don't like.Every time I grab my Fluke 101 I think it's really cute, especially those tiny but incredibly clear screen digits. Then I remember the probe sockets are in a stupid place and it won't stand up, so it annoys me again. I love it really though.(I think the 101 probes go in the bottom because the meter is so slim that decent probes would be too long to go vertically in the top)The BM857 scores quite high on this scale despite some things thatseemall wrong from afar, eg. the selector dial is disproportionately small.The Fluke 87V obviously doessomethingright.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 02:35:11 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 24, 2021, 10:35:29 pmI'm sure you did it right. I guess the "~Hz Line level frequency" figures on BM789 datasheet should be simply interpreted as "V RMS sensitivity" for the given sine frequency range, not as upper frequency limits for sinewaves. What was the rms voltage you applied to get a correct frequency reading of 1 MHz?I checked the same on my 87V and BM869S (I don't have a BM789). To my surprise, 87V measured correctly sinewave frequencies up to 1MHz (way beyond its published 200 KHz spec), if the input was jacked up to 1 Vrms. It was able to display correctly 200 KHz for a 50 mVrms input. BM689S is less sensitive - could not measure any frequency of any signal under 80 mVrms. But if you jack up the input to 1 Vrms it measures fine up to 5.5 MHz (!).Another thing I noticed is that BM689S can't measure any frequency if the signal doesn't pass through zero - as in a sine wave with an offset of half (or more) of its peak-to-peak amplitude. 87V doesn't have any problem with that. Does BM789 have this limitation, too?

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 04:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmFor a similar reason I love my old Fluke 77 and the 179. I even don't need to toggle between diode and continuity. Usually all I want to know and hear is if there is a pn-junction or a short, and it looks for both. But the Brymens now can also do this.Back to the Brymen vs. Fluke question, buy the functionality you really need and will certainly use. Then go for the highest quality and fastest meter. Hunting for features you might need someday in the future or to be on the safe side often results in disappointments, gets in your way when using the device and is almost always a compromise (e.g 100 kHz AC bandwidth vs. a cheap scope).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2021, 11:32:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmThe U1282A is indeed massive, but it sits well on a bench and its bale is quite good. Its interface is a bit crowded, but it has a lot of configurations. One additional aspect that, I don't use much but it is very well implemented is its backlight; not only It has one of the most evenly spread backlight but its illuminated buttons are really good.Regarding the switch... Well, one can't say one way or another. Joe never tested the U1282A.Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmI agree that, for continuity alone, the response time may not be as significant. However, this may indicate the meter may be faster for other operations such as peak detect and perhaps triggering.As for the name... Oh well... Hioki does not really sound great for me (Portuguese is my mother language, and it sounds like an italian plate - Gnocchi). At any rate, IMO nothing beats powerful names such as Hewlett Packard, Fluke or Tektronix!Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmYes, the BM857 and its "sticky" settings are quite convenient on this sense.Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmSimilar feel here on my RM102Pro (same enclosure). The RM113D is also a bit rough but the meter itself works much better. The Bside ZT-Y (SZ18) in comparison feels much better.Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2021, 12:36:18 pmThe trick for the 101 is to have their magnetic hanger. It acts also as a tilting bale for the bench. The meter feels good as well, but its quality issues left a very bad taste on my mouth.

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 12:56:44 am
content: If diode test beeps are important to you, don't assume that all brand/models do diode beeps.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 01:02:40 am
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on February 25, 2021, 02:35:11 pm1 MHz needs about 240mV RMSat 1 MHz and 1VRMS the Brymen 789 doesn't seem to care what offset it sees; it reads fine with +/-3.5V offsetat 1 MHz and 700mVRMS it will read ok with a +4V to - 1.6V offsetat 1 MHz and 500mV RMS it will read ok with a +700mV to -100mV offsetThese were quick look-see measurements; let me know if you want something else measured.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 01:17:29 am
content: Quote from: xavier60 on February 26, 2021, 12:56:44 amThe Brymen 789 does diode beeps on regular diodes (but doesn't beep on LEDs).It beeps and lights up the display REALLY NICELY for continuity tests.I've only had the 789 a short while but it has jumped ahead of almost all it's brother and sister DMMs and sits shoulder to shoulder with the Fluke 179 - and the Fluke 179 is having it's hands full retaining it's place near the head of the line. They both sit right behind the 34465A in class but they both get very similar answers to the 34465A when called upon, and it's possible that if the 34465A is the valedictorian that the 789 is going to graduate as the salutorian, with the Bronze medal going to the 179. All worthy Olympians on my bench.But they've never had to compete with a Fluke 87V. Maybe some day.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 01:38:06 am
content: Back to the overall topic.After having the 789 for a while and reflecting on the the Q&A in this thread, I think I see the similarities and tradeoffs a little better.The 179 and the 789 are very similar in size, form, and weight.The 789 has a ton of functionality and it seems very accurate and given Joe's tests I'm confident it is a very safe and reliable meter. The Fluke 179 is not as feature rich as the 789 but it has earned my confidence over nearly 20 years in terms of safety, reliability, and accuracy. The 789 has more resolution as well as more functionality, but the 179 has enough resolution for almost any likely task given to a handheld DMM. What the 179 gives up in resolution and functionality it makes up for with it's simple/clean dial interface.I think for most people, at 2/3s the price of the 179 it would be hard to pass up a 789. I'm guessing the 87V adds the resolution and some other features, along with the Fluke cache, but it also adds still more $ - so I'd say the 789 has to be the value leader.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 09:06:38 am
content: F87V has no magical properties. It is tough as nails, professional meter, made for tough life in industrial environments. It has enough of measurements to get industrial technician through the day, and it will still be dead on accurate after workers are playing football (soccer to Yanks) with it for 10 years.It's main feature is dependability, and the fact people are used to it. Village beauty is the standard of beauty in that village. Little they know she would be nothing special somewhere else. Fluke dominated the market so long, people think it's the only way.If you're buying meter for electronics, and you don't have 8-9 other meters , including 3-4 bench meters win up to 6.5 digits, then F87V is not very good choice. It would be user deliberately giving up on capabilities to keep it simple.I will say it again: 2-3 cheap UNI-T 61E meter as are more useful in a lab than one Fluke. Because they are GOOD enough, and you can do more.But Uni-T has questionable quality and safety, so people are willing to pay more to get something better.Fast forward to BM789. Quality, safety, same as Fluke, proven fact. Price for a new one: you can buy two for the price of F87V, an some leftover money. It's shortcoming: they can measure MORE. That is BAD... And my mind starts to bend..Lets compare, for the same money:With F87V you can measure at the same time:1 temperature measurement1 V or A measurementBM789:4 temp measurements, or V and I at the same time, or whatever combination because you have two meters for the same money.All that for a horrible sacrifice that you'll need to learn to operate new device.To each it's own. Everybody does what they want. You want to buy less for more money because you can't be arsed to spend a day or two to learn new things, that's fine. But, on the record, that wasn't smart or good decision. It was simply lazy.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 01:59:24 pm
content: Sinisa, I agree with most of what you are saying, but at least in the discussions around here I don't realy think people are saying the 87V is the only way... Also, the 87V is still a good option for electronics - sure, its price/performance ratio is very poor compared to other options, but it gets the job done. Heck, one can get a lot done with a simple analog VOM (I know I surely did) but its price/performance is also really poor.All in all, the meters in question by the OP are really nice. Bring in other options such as the one you and others mentioned and you end up with a tough task of skimming through the options.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 07:43:29 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 26, 2021, 09:06:38 amYep.If I'm honest, I could measure and do (eg. test LEDs) everythingIneed with my 20,000 count, 0.05% DC accuracy Aneng 870. You can get two of them for the price of a UNI-T 61E.But... you always need more than one meter per person so I have a Brymen BM857, a Fluke 101 and a few other Anengs which I bought for fun. Each has it's strengths and is used accordingly.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 07:57:36 pm
content: Not the UT61E. They’re like riding a drunk donkey up the road. Cal is about as stable as one anyway.My daily driver is a Fluke 25 to be honest. It has a mode no other DMM has:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 08:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 26, 2021, 07:57:36 pmThe Fluke 27 has that mode too.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 05:19:44 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 25, 2021, 11:32:21 pmOnly 27 bucks! Thanks, Fluke...https://www.ebay.com/itm/231461961726

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 11:02:43 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 27, 2021, 05:19:44 amYes, that's Fluke for you, unfortunately. I got the 101 bundle, so it turned out for 15 dollars "only" (the price of a RM113D).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 11:07:47 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 26, 2021, 07:57:36 pmThe UT61E that I have has been quite stable over the years. I know that joeqsmith's also has been stable..But that is the reality of Chinese meters, especially in the early to mid 2010s: the variance in quality and stability is a toss. Nowadays they managed to put a decent meter here and there, but no long track record yet.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 11:14:24 am
content: I wish mine was. It drifted quite far out of spec fairly quickly. I had to replace the DC cal pot in the end. Got a proper Bourns one in there and it was better but not great. This was a number of years ago now so they may have improved.The comparison point is as always “random knackered fluke off eBay” though which usually turns up bang on after all the crud is cleaned off the board.2019 vs 1993. The 1993 variant was a wreck when I got it.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 01:49:10 pm
content: Oh yes, no question about it. Flukes in pretty much any sorry state tend to be really spot on with regards to their most important feature: accuracy.

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 26, 2021, 09:06:38 amMay I give an example? I use resistance and continuity modes quite often. With the Fluke 87V I would just toggle between the two with a button. If I need a short look at a pn-junction it is a one detent twist clockwise. Without checking the display I know the Fluke will give me a diode check. Coming back to resistance I know, the device will measure resistance again. Toggle, and I am in continuity.The Brymen can measure MORE. Yes, this is the reason it brings me to nSiemens mode when toggling between resistance and continuity. nSiemens could be useful, but I would need it just once a year. Now I have to skip this mode once or several times every minute. A quick diode check requires me checking the display for a potential capacitance mode. Rotating back to resistance I might be in continuity or resistance. Or nSiemens.This would annoy me despite having more functions. My personal preference is a tool with a function set I use regularly and which excels in it's realm in ease of operation and speed. This is, in my opinion, where Fluke still is miles ahead.I have a 179. It doesn't feature a uA range. If I do multiple precision measurements in a range this low (seldom) I grab an analog Metravo 4E. But for a quick measurement I just throw a 500 ohms resistor in the circuit and measure the voltage drop. I even don't need to reinsert test leads.In other words (and slightly provoking): It is better to know your tools and how to handle their rare limitations than to buy new gear and handle the permanent ballast.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 07:14:57 pm
content: Quote from: pjwum on February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pmI agree completely, and that is exactly why I got rid of F87V and use BM525, BM869 and MTX3293 as my daily drivers.I learned to handle their rare limitations and avoided permanent ballast that I will never be able to do so many measurement that I can now.That formula works for everybody, with "substitute your priorities here" applied.Also, slightly provoking, what I'm saying is that your familiarity with F87V is just that, familiarity. Doing something for 20 years shapes how people think. Familiar way and right way start to look the same, even if it is not exactly like that.After just few weeks, I learned to drive the with muscle memory, and by single glance I know exactly what mode I'm in. Pressing a button, and visually checking the screen for mode is no different than movig rotary switch and visually checking if rotary switch is in right position.I never just flip some switch without looking, and rely on "now it should be measuring ohms", without visually double checking if setup is right. I don't force the speed when doing something, i like more to be deliberate and thorough and analyse as I go, so few tenths of second for mode change are not a problem to me, I guess.But as I said before, I respect that you like things that way, your prerogative. You do what you do. That is fine and F87V is excellent instrument.And If you have other instruments (maybe benchtop) to fire up when you need more, than you have a winning combination.Or you just don't need more any you only want quality and dependability and you can afford classic safe choice. Also perfect.Best regards,Sinisa

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2021, 07:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: pjwum on February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pmIf I was in continuity mode before the diode check, I'd want it to go back to continuity.Same with current measurement. If I'm looking at DC current I want it to stay in DC current mode when I go between milliamps and microamps and back again. I don't want to press a button every single time. If I was working on sending microcontrollers to sleep and waking up (which I do) then I definitely wouldn't want a Fluke 87V for that job.Quote from: pjwum on February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pmThat works for Brymens, too.My Brymen has only two functions on the ohms range, ohms and continuity. Toggling is easy.I can see how having a third function on there looks like a pain in the ass but it's not used much and I bet it won't take long for fingers to learn that continuity->ohms istwopresses. Certainly less than 20 years.

author: rauldm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 06:54:04 pm
content: Today I use Fluke, Keysight and Hioki like handled tools, each tool is good on somethings, but these 3 brands share similar diode test "technic" and AutoHold.Yesterday sell out a Hioki Dt4253 for get DT4281 or Dt4282, the autohold of Hioki Dt4253 is bad compared with autohold the Fluke, I have 289, 28 II, 87V, 87 III, 179 and 117. Of keysight I have U1282A.AdventajesMost fast autorange speed, the king is Fluke 87 III, second is Hioki DT4253, (I hope DT428x works similar)Most coherent characteristics and versatile meters, Fluke 289 and Keysight U1282A. Its major problem is size. Time span data log in fluke 289 is not easy to beat, keysigtht Ip67, bandwidth, square output and fast responsibe meter configured to 40 reads/s, is nice meter also, autorange speed is a shit.Interesting functions Hioki, Hioki beeps when measure any parameter, display change of color (on Dt428x series), very good quality, similar size to Fluke 117 with better CAT rating, just CAT IV japan made.Finally most used meter for me, Fluke 87V and 87III, zoom relative bar is great (not available on fluke 87 III) and more responsibe than Fluke 289, very good balanced functions, peak function is for me very important.Complement meters, Fluke 117, 179 and 28IIFinally each person takes the meter o meters that does better work in specific area. If only you want a meter, the best option for me, for years has been Fluke 289. Perhaps Fluke 289 and Fluke 87 V just works for anything.I see brymens for last 2 years ago, really first brymen I like too much is just BM789, I think is the most balanced meter that brymen to build. BM869 never I liked it. 100 kHz is good, but 60000 counts is very usuable on handled meter, for example for calibrating my E3631A power supply I use U1282A for 60000 counts display. I think brymen missing does this meter with dual display and bluetooth.If you need high accuracy go for bench meter, really bench meter is to far of everything handled meter on prestations and accuracy terms, if you need just a versatile meter, i think this brymen 789 is better choice than Fluke 87VRegards.

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 09:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: rauldm on February 28, 2021, 06:54:04 pmThis is absolutely true. There is no "better meter", only a suitable combo of equipment where a new meter might fit in or not.

author: NEMAON
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 03:31:44 pm
content: Hi allBought the BM789 today, with it's case and magnetic hanger.Will post some photos if you are intrested...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 08:37:16 pm
content: Yes please

author: rauldm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 04:10:53 am
content: I hope you can test bandwidth, peak function, autorange speed.Regards.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 04:43:39 am
content: Quote from: rauldm on March 10, 2021, 04:10:53 amSome bandwidth results are presented in reply 52:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-me-decide-fluke-87v-or-brymen-bm789/msg3481690/#msg3481690

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 06:47:24 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 10, 2021, 04:43:39 amSorry, I have to point out that metersrange of measurementinfrequency measurement modeis quite different fromfrequency bandwidth of AC volts/ampere measurements...One is a range of frequency counter, and the other is how accurate meter stays when you measuring AC voltage (current) of different frequencies.. They are not directly related.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 11:52:47 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 10, 2021, 06:47:24 amRoger that, and thanks. Point well taken.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 08:24:59 pm
content: Hi !I found this topic and decided to spend maybe ~30mins to read carefully everyone's comment and opinion on this apparently little&humble question from the title. I was happy to notice that the discussion went offtopic quite subtle and it became 50% interesting, 25% funny and 25% psychology class.On the bottom of page #3 I've read this reply quoted below which I was hoping for. It's a simple and meaningful answer to this debate and I want to share my story related to the highlighted sentences...Quote from: pjwum on February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pmIt took me a few years of buying, using and getting rid of many cheap/budget DMMs until I've figured out what I truly want in terms of ease of operation and truly need as features, regardless of the money. I reached a point when I had no dmm on my bench except the "2$" one that was thrown in the trunk of my car just in case I might need it once.A suitable option for me was the 87V which had all the features I wanted, but I hate the fact that resistance, continuity and cap were all three crowded on the same rotary switch position and diode was single on the next position. No thanks!Then I was looking for the 179 which has resistance and continuity as primary functions on two different switch positions and those less used diode and cap as secondary functions by pressing a button - well balanced and perfect for my needs, but unlike the 87V, the autohold was at a "twice button press" away, so no deal !By chance I found a 77IV for 1/3 of it's brand new price. I took the deal since I don't need trms, autohold is at a "single button press" away, the spec is tight at 0.X% ± 1 digit (which is great when measuring on the low end of the scale), has power-up options like "Poff" and "Loff", has super-fast continuity. No more words, it just fitted me.But of course this 77IV lacks some features I wanted since I was looking for the 87V: uA, temperature and relative(Δ). Since I don't own and can't afford a nice bench dmm as I have at my workplace (Keysight 34465), I was thinking that it might be a nice idea to have a second handheld dmm.I tried BM235, it is a nice little meter that works very well, but I hate the rotary switch is very stiff and the probe's jacks are almost in the way when rotating it. Also the auto-v lo-z mode is to the left of the OFF position which annoys me sometimes. That feature is mostly unused, if you really need you can improvise something and take care not to shock yourself. The same with NCV (EF) function, I think it's better to have a dedicated NCV detector or a DIY one from a handful of common parts. So...I got rid of the little Brymen, but I still have and use those sharp gold-plated probes.About 2 months ago I searched for something else similar with BM235, with autohold at one button press away, with the possibility to disable both auto power-off and auto backlight-off, default DC for volts and amps, better display viewing angle and contrast. I end up picking the U1241B which I happily use now together with the 77IV. And that's it...no more searching!A similar dmm option instead of the 77IV could have been the DT4252 which was on my radar, but looking at reviews I figured out I surely won't like the faded display, the fact that it blinks in resistance mode during overlimit and the beeping noises when measuring resistance or diodes (I hate noisy test gear!).@NEMAON: what I wanted to point out with my little story is that no matter what everyone else says/recommends/chooses, in the end it's down to your preferences and you should decide for yourself and take action to buy what you wish at that moment. If it turns out you don't get along well with your chosen dmm, you can easily sell it and pick the other one. I agree it's a mater of money and time sacrifice by doing so, but at some point you will settle down peacefully as I did. Don't forget that nothing is free/easy/for granted in this world, you are going to pay (sooner or later, in one way or another) for everything.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 09:17:26 am
content: Quote from: pjwum on February 27, 2021, 04:20:10 pmMaybe you just need to choose the Brymen model more carefully.When I bought my Brymen I chose the BM857 for the reasons you give. There's a matching BM859 that has extra functions like temperature but I have other devices for that. I test a lot of LEDs so I wanted the diode function on a separate selector position (which the BM857 has). I wanted DC current by default (Brymens remember the AC/DC setting). It beats the Fluke 87V on almost every specification, it can do more things, it also has a cheap RS232 option if you want that. I can buy three of them for the price of the Fluke.In practice, the only thing I ever need to toggle is Ohms/continuity.Mine's the one on the left below. The one on the right is the BM859 for comparison.(I also liked the square "industrial" shape and smaller size than the BM869s)The only thing I'd change would be to make the selector a bit bigger. It's not a problem in use but it seems out of proportion with the rest of the meter and itmightwork better if it was bigger.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 01:29:44 pm
content: Some day there might be a DMM that has a nice (rotary?) hardware selector that is user (software) configurable in a way that enables the user to determine which functions with which labels appear in which position. This would perhaps make individual users happy but might lead to challenges in team environments where standardization might be preferred for various reasons - which might lead to a feature for installing locked down policy configurations (kinda like corporate computers). Or maybe Fluke, Brymen, EEVblog, et all will will figure it out, or maybe Aneng will just make every popular configuration. Or maybe it will be like Nike basketball shoes and you will be able to custom order what you want prior to manufacturing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 02:18:50 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 11, 2021, 01:29:44 pmNah, it's a physical switch that connects voltages to each other.If you're going entirely digital then you'll need relays for the switching and you'd be better off with buttons instead of a dial.(or a touchscreen)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 03:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 11, 2021, 09:17:26 amAnother is the tilting bale - it is pretty crap for such larger and heavier meter. The capacitance is not good, but that is just a small detail IMO. Otherwise, a very good meter.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 03:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on March 11, 2021, 03:04:40 pmOh, yeah, that too.This was my solution, a carefully color-matched piece of string:Don't laugh until you've tried it, it's assolid as a rockthis way. Every meter should have one!

author: pjwum
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 06:34:43 pm
content: @Fungus: Cool fix, and aesthetically pleasing. You could even tune in the best readable LCD-angle. And I fully agree that this switch layout of the BM857 is perfectly effective.@Paulbt: Thanks mate, glad to meet a brother in mind. Your 77iv and the Keysight is a very nice complementing combo.

author: Analog4
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2021, 08:52:18 pm
content: The biggest problem with the Brymen in the USA is the lack of distribution and warranty. Greenlee has not picked up the BM789 design variant yet.In the USA it is easy & cheap to get a used Fluke 87V on eBay.

author: paulbt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 01:41:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 11, 2021, 02:18:50 pmHi!Just noticed your statement and it made me wonder...Testo dmms have relays inside? or how do they switch from voltage to current measurement? Can it be done with the same multiplexing technique that I know it's used for second functions on a "normal" dmm? In either case, how to they manage to keep the CAT rating (clearances and other HV safety stuff) when there is no rotary switch?I'm sorry the discussion went waaaay offtopic, but it's just too interesting (for me atleast).See attached picture below...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 08:04:26 pm
content: Quote from: paulbt on March 12, 2021, 01:41:24 pmThey probably detect when you insert a lead in the current socket and switch to current mode when you do.(I don;t own one of those exact meters but I own something similar)Quote from: paulbt on March 12, 2021, 01:41:24 pmThe rotary switch comesafterthe safety system, it isn't part of it.

author: HAO
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 06:51:09 am
content: Does anyone know where to buy BM789 with lastest firmware 78908 ? TME or Welectron ?

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 01:02:02 pm
content: Quote from: HAO on September 15, 2021, 06:51:09 amI got mine from Welectron back in May (because it was out of stock at TME). It came with 78908. TME has it back in stock now, so we can safely assume the new batch has the latest version of the firmware as well.

author: HAO
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 03:00:51 pm
content: Quote from: Caliaxy on September 15, 2021, 01:02:02 pmTME confirmed firmware 78908 now is in stock !

author: AlexTee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 06:16:04 am
content: Hi. Did anyone recently order BM789 from TME? Does it come with the magnetic shield over the buzzer already installed from the factory? I am asking this, because the first batches didn't include any.

author: elekorsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pm
content: I ordered it from TME, about a month ago, but i don't know what magnetic shield you are talking about?I nedeed additional handheld DMM and decided to try something else than fluke...What i can say about the 789 is that it is OK, but i expected a bit more after reading all the posts about it. Rotary selector is quite stiff, feels like something on 20€ DMM... Most anoying to me is that the OFF position is not the last one on the selectori think i managed to turn it off in first shot only once ot twice until now....All the instruments that i use on field (DMM, current clamps, handhled scope, insulation tester...) are from Fluke and no one can convince me that it's not the best. For the bench use it doesn't really mather, Brymen is OK. But when you put them into rough enviroment Fluke is the only thing that works. Most abused meter i have is a simple 179, which has seen from heavy dust and rain to oil and grease, and is still doing great...

author: AlexTee
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 09:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: elekorsi on November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pmMagnetic shield:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-eevblog-bm786-multimeter/msg3608153/#msg3608153It is required if you're going to use magnetic hanger:https://youtu.be/rZqfp2XKvjETheearly batchesof 789 didn't include the shield either, but later they've added one. Does yours have it installed? Also, please check which fw version your meter was delivered with, because I, too, want to order from TME.Thanks.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 07:41:06 am
content: Quote from: elekorsi on November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pmVery few Brymens do that, and some Flukesdo, eg. the 117, so...

author: elekorsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 10:04:45 am
content: Quote from: AlexTee on November 07, 2021, 09:25:08 pmI checked and it has the shield. FW version is 08 if i understand that correctly...Is that "2112" on the PCB, bellow uA plug, production year and week? As 2021, week 12?Quote from: Fungus on November 08, 2021, 07:41:06 amOnly 11x series as i can see... Well i guess you need to get used to it, but i just always instinctively rotate it to the far end, as i always did with all the DMMs

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 12:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: elekorsi on November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pmThat annoyed me on my Keysight's U1273A as well but, if the Brymen is like the Keysight with a slightly stronger detent on the OFF position, you get mechanical memory in your fingers and feel when the switch is OFF.Quote from: elekorsi on November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pmI was going to comment on your first assertive about the stiff switch but then saw you are used to Flukes - in my opinion the 87V and the 179 rotary switches are absolute kings in mechanical design.Regarding robustness on the field... Fluke is indeed king (with perhaps a second place the Keysight U1282A -video) - the Brymens are on the softer side (perhaps their compact meters are a bit more robust). However, for lab and home purposes, Brymens are a much better bang per buck.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 12:40:10 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 08, 2021, 12:10:46 pmBrymen make an "industrial" range, too. They're square shaped, not as curvy as the ones people around here seem to buy.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 04:36:32 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 08, 2021, 12:40:10 pmYes, we both have one (the BM857) - although mine is an earlier revision, there are still some small details on mine that are not very robust. I have the impression their compact meters are much more robust (BM235, BM257, etc.) and would survive one of Dave's torture tests.

author: elekorsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 06:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 08, 2021, 12:10:46 pmThat is what i wanted to say, i will be using only on the bench and for that it really has good price/performance ratio...To be honest, for the field work you need DMM that is: robust, reliable, safe and SIMPLE. In 99% you need AC V, DC V, DC mA, continuity, resistance,solid CAT ratingand a magnetic holder. You can have a second, more complex DMM for that 1%...I was recently offered a new Fluke 279FC for a really low price. It's intended for maintenance operations and i tell you that i wouldn't take it to the field, even if i would get it it for free... It must be a candidate for the most useless DMM on the market. Why? Because it has about 10h of battery life, and in order to charge it you must take the battery outnow imagine that anywhere you go, you must bring the charger with you and search for some mains outlets...

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 08:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: elekorsi on November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pmEspecially in heavy gloves it is not a bad thing if the switch is not too soft. And the magnetic holder on the Brymen is smarter than the fluke.And apart from Joe Smiths switch test, where the two peformed equally we don't know about any specific mechanical robustness test which could be the base of any comparison. But the separate case of the 87V might be a bit thicker. How thick is it?ElekOrsi: When did you buy your BM879?

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 05:46:03 pm
content: I've got 2x Fluke 87V's and 2x Fluke 77 Series II's and I use those every day, I really like how dependable and reliable they are and do everything I need. If I want higher accuracy or a higher count I'll use one of the bench meters. I've got stacks of different handheld multimers of different brands and never really use them as I just don't like how they work.However I'm really really tempted by a BM789, especially with the "Fluke type" diode test and I think for electronics work it looks an absolutely incredible bit of kit for anyone's bench. And it will fill all the gaps in that my 87V's miss.