Proof 100 years later for Einstein - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:35:14 pm
content: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35524440LIGOwikihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGO" Based on current models of astronomical events, and the predictions of the general theory of relativity, gravitational waves that originate tens of millions of light years from Earth are expected to distort the 4 kilometer mirror spacing by about 10?18 m, less than one-thousandth the charge diameter of a proton. Equivalently, this is a relative change in distance of approximately one part in 1021. A typical event which might cause a detection event would be the late stage inspiral and merger of two 10 solar mass black holes, not necessarily located in the Milky Way galaxy, which is expected to result in a very specific sequence of signals often summarized by the slogan chirp, burst, quasi-normal mode ringing, exponential decay. "'' gravitational waves that originate tens of millions of light years from Earth are expected to distort the 4 kilometer mirror spacing by about 10?18 m, less than one-thousandth the charge diameter of a proton. "" Wow !

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:44:44 pm
content: If you follow a certain recent discussion, certain people would have disputed relativity out of a valid theory before today's discovery.Science is like baysian update: each confirmatory enhances its credibility, or its probability of being right, but it will nevé be 100 percent. Conversely, each contradiction lowers its probability of being right, but never quits get to 0 percent.Ie, right and wrong are shades of gray.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:58:56 pm
content: The downloadable paper is here along with some other stuff:https://dcc.ligo.org/LIGO-P150914/publicThese folk are detecting changes down to one part in 10-21which is stunning to think of.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: Homer J Simpson on February 11, 2016, 10:35:14 pmWow indeed.With that accuracy i would have expected a bird's fart within the same state to produce enough of an earthquake to overwhelm the sensor.How are they keeping the noise out?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 11:03:17 pm
content: Not that it isn't a great achievement just that it is much harder to detect a birds fart from a state away than to detect gravational wave: the signal to noise ration is so much higher for gravational wave detection. As the back ground is very very clean so you only need to detect sometjing., anything.A birds fart, on the other hand, is buried deep in tons of noise.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 11:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on February 11, 2016, 10:59:55 pmThere's some info about that in this article:http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/after-100-years-scientists-are-finally-closing-in-on-einsteins-ripples/Apparently bird farts aren't a problem, but waves on the Louisana coast are.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 11:09:27 pm
content: Well I guess it is time to pour another bottle of beer over Einstein's grave

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 01:02:52 am
content: God have spoken trough Einstein! Praise Jesus! Hail the lord!

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 02:22:23 am
content: Damn started another thread didn't see Homer J Simpsons' post.Gravity Waves have been detected by the LIGO interferometershttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35524440http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35553549Amazing if you think that this event occured 1.3 billion light years away, I guess that is 1.3E9 and only lasted 200 ms.Two binary black holes each 30 times the mass of the sun colliding would release E = mc2= 60*2E30*(3E8)2about 1049Joules, maybe. This is indeed a major discovery.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 02:46:44 am
content: -would release E = mc2 = 60*2E30*(3E8)2about 1049 Joules, maybe. -Only if you assume general relativity applies to this kind of objects.I think they call blackholes singularity for a reason.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:16:56 am
content: I don't really know if general relativity applies or not. The frequency chirp in the detected signals was interesting,

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:22:19 am
content: what is the sigma level of this discovery?i may have tripped their detector with my massive balls

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:44:15 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 11, 2016, 11:09:27 pmwaste of beer

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:35:59 am
content: More bad science coming up. Assume gravity waves propagate like radio waves or light, that was the bad science bit.Free space path loss FSPL = (4*pi*d*f/c)2d = 1.3E9 * 9.46E15 = 1.23E25 mf = 250Hz for sake of argumentFSPL = (4*pi*1.23E25*250/3e8)2= 1.66E40 = 402dBMy head can only relate that to power loss, I'm like a fish out of water when it comes to stain.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:58:02 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 11, 2016, 10:44:44 pmIt's not symmetrical. In science you can refute a theory but cannot prove it (deducing 'always' from a finite set of observations). Actually, falsifiability is an important characteristic of a good scientific theoryhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 05:16:54 am
content: 1,000,000 examples that support a theory do not prove it, but it only takes 1 example to kill it.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:05:21 am
content: Quote from: Artlav on February 11, 2016, 10:59:55 pmThis is actually one of the big challenge in this experiment. You have to isolate the device from all kind of seismic noise.Especially the ones that could have the same frequency range as the gravity wave.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:17:17 am
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on February 12, 2016, 02:22:23 amIn fact, the two black holes are not converted into energy. Most of the mass form a new black hole as the result of the coalescence of the two primaries. Only 3 M_sun (out of 65 ) is converted into gravity wave through theEinstein equation E=mc^2 . This is already a lot.See the details in the original paper that is available for free for download athttp://journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.061102The paper is written in a way that is possible to read for (relatively ) large audience.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:47:57 am
content: Quote from: JacquesBBB on February 12, 2016, 09:05:21 amThat experiment is bogus. I tried to reproduce it at home and got different results. Might be my Arduino was acting up though.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 09:54:36 am
content: Quote from: zapta on February 12, 2016, 09:47:57 amMaybe you should try to use a PIC IC. They are known to be better for detecting gravity waves than Atmel's.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 11:23:45 am
content: Since this thread already deals with Einstein, the number 100, and scientific vindication, let's add the Nazis to the mix. This little anecdote illustrates one of the core principles of good science, facts > authority.Quotehttp://www.britannica.com/biography/Albert-Einstein

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 11:31:10 am
content: 'facts > authority.'They must have more that 97 percent of the scientific consensus on that. Lots of articles in peer reviewed journals, and 'settled science' to boot......A brain that cannot think for itself is a wasted brain.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 03:52:12 pm
content: An interesting story of refuting a scientific theory is the case of the Australian physician Barry Marshall. He infected himself with bacteria, got ulcer, and won a Noble prize in 2005.Quotehttp://www.achievement.org/autodoc/printmember/mar1int-1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:04:21 pm
content: Quote"settled science" literally kills.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:16:40 pm
content: Fascinating really. BBC did a good piece on it. They said Einstein was only wrong about one thing, and that is that we won't be able to measure it.I don't think he was wrong though. He had no ways of accounting for all the advancements in testing and measurements in the past 100 years.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 04:32:50 pm
content: QuoteIf he said that unconditionally, that's definitely a wrong statement: it is entirely possible to say that it couldn't have been measured with the equipment available then. But it doesn't take a rocket scientists to envision sufficient advances in the future that would make such measurement possible.The measurement of massive blackholes is still not possible today: we are lucky in that the collision observed is fairly small, just the right size for the kind of set-up we have.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 06:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on February 11, 2016, 10:58:56 pmEven TiN hasn't managed that in his lab just yet!