Oscilloscope Primarily for Very Occasional 3.3/5v Module Trouble Shooting - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 04:50:50 pm
content: Yet another"What Scope Should I buy Post"from a newbie.I've read pretty much all the'what beginner oscilloscope should I buy'posts and of course mine is different(at least in my mind) .... (A good one is here ...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/portable-oscilloscopes-list/)I am a hobby enthusiast and I work primarily with ESP32s and sensor modules. Every year I build an escape room for my kids for Xmas. This year's theme was "Music" and one of the puzzles was a drum set I fit up with piezo vibration detectors. For troubleshooting I have been able to get by with a multimeter but the piezo vibration detectors were sending voltages too fast for my multimeter to read. This sent me down the rabbit hole of looking at scopes and of course all oscilloscope roads lead to EEVBlog.When I was looking for a multimeter EEVBlog helped me narrow down my choices and eventually I settled on the ANENG AN8008 (this should give you a good indication of the price point and benefit ratio I am looking for). This multimeter suits my needs perfectly for those times I need to trouble shoot (with the exception of not being able to provide time based graphs).I primarily work with 3.3v, 4.2v and 5v. Very rarely I might use 8v (thermal printer) or 12v (long run WLED).What (I think) I need generally from a scope is (or has been):1. Check for consistent voltage to a module (so I would be looking for scope single shot voltage drops)2. Check for voltage spikes from modules (spike from piezo, again scope single shot looking for voltage rise)3. Something that is small so I can pack it away most of the time.4. Something that is cheap since I will rarely be using it.What (I think) I'd like but don't need would be:5. SPI, I2C and I2S decoding.6. 2 channels.I was hoping to stay under $50US for what I need or under $100US for what I want (both decoding & 2 channels).My AN8008 multimeter can do pretty much everything else I need for trouble shooting.I have done lots of looking and narrowed my search to:Need (1 to 4 above):SigPeak/Zeeweii DSO154-PROhttp://www.zeeweii.com/productinfo/dso154pro.htmlNeed + Like (1 to 6 above):DreamSource Lab DSTouch DS4T252https://www.dreamsourcelab.com/shop/oscilloscope/dstouch-ds4t252/I have ruled out FNIRSI, Zoyi/ANENG, Hantek, and Miniware as well as full sized scopes. I really like the AN8008 so don't really need a combo scope + multimeter.Please don't say buy a used scope, I've had a Kijiji search (Craig's list equivalent in my area) looking at every oscilloscope posted for past 2 years without anything of value.My main concern is that DreamSource Lab doesn't have much of a market presence (or firmware updates) but maybe that should not be a concern at this price point?Please let me know your thoughts.ThanksGreg

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 07:00:35 pm
content: For under $50 I would buy the Zeeweii DSO1C81:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007394192248.htmlI don't know the DSTouch.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:04:00 pm
content: If you want decoding then it's difficult. None of the cheapo oscilloscopes do it.OTOH you can probably get away with checking signal integrity on the 'scope (ie. Are the I2C pullups doing their job) and then run a "sniffer" program on an Arduino (or something similar) to peek at the data.I'd definitely go for two channels, you often need to see an eventanda response. This probably puts the price over $50.I've got one of these and it does an excellent job for the price:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/another-dsodmm-zeeweii-dso3d12-claimed-120mhz250msps/You should be able to get one for under $100.(Yes, it has a multimeter. They all do so just go with it. Having a second multimeter isn't a bad thing anyway...)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:04:41 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on January 15, 2025, 07:00:35 pmZeeweii is the brand to go for in "cheap 'scopes", IMHO.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:10:01 pm
content: Quote from: trifusion on January 15, 2025, 04:50:50 pmI never heard of them before today.Edit: There's a thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dreamsourcelab-dstouch-ds4t1012-ds4t1012/

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: trifusion on January 15, 2025, 04:50:50 pmAnd you won't be the last. I am getting a side-gig idea..Quote from: trifusion on January 15, 2025, 04:50:50 pmI don't think they do, not by comparison to the main "tier two and below" vendors. However, their range of logic analyser products seem to get good press from their users on this site.I am going to be the contrarian, and say that if you can justify the additional expense, I'd look more towards the DS.Reasons? Largely subjective but sometime things are exactly are they appear, and you can trust intuition. The DS product actually *looks* like a finished product, rather than a self-assemble kit. Someone put some time and effort into the design. And it has some attempt at a functional specification on its "datasheet", whilst what Zeeweii are offering in that regard (on the link in this thread) is just a joke.Not to mention that the DS has twice the sample rate, plus some decode capability if you think you're ever likely to need it. Probably won't be the worlds's best, but their LA products (as I said previously) get a good reviews in this regard.To be clear, both are "toys" as compared to scopes in the 500 USD range, but to my mind, the DS less so than the Zeeweii.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:29:46 pm
content: Not a lot out there about DreamSource Lab, but what I have found looks good. Last month there was a pretty good video on youtube:by Kerry Wong. For the price the DS4T252 looks much better than any other cheap scopes. I wish there were more reviews of it.The company looks like they specialize in logic analyzers (based on open sourcehttps://sigrok.org/wiki/Main_Page) which seems to have enabled them to do the protocol decoder at such a low price point.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:35:34 pm
content: Quote from: NE666 on January 15, 2025, 08:23:05 pmAgree, I am looking at the 'toy' level devices, this is for 'cheap' fun not work.Thank you

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 08:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: trifusion on January 15, 2025, 08:35:34 pmNo harm in that. Looks as if there's good fun and learning potential to be had here.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 09:25:22 pm
content: Looks useful in that video.I'm just suspicious when a seemingly good device doesn't have a thread on EEVBLOG though.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 09:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 15, 2025, 09:25:22 pmMy thought exactly. There are only two posts about it here, I PM'd the two who posted to see if they had any thoughts they could add to this thread. I also emailed DreamSource Lab this morning to see if it's in stock and delivery time to me, we'll see how long it takes for them to respond.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2025, 11:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: trifusion on January 15, 2025, 09:38:42 pmGood idea. Email them with some basic questions and see if they respond.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2025, 10:33:33 pm
content: DreamSource Lab emailed me within 12 hours, which I think was pretty good considering there is also about a 12 hour time difference. I am leaning towards getting the DS4T252 and if I do I'll post back here some info for anyone else looking at it since there is very little out there.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2025, 11:38:23 pm
content: I'd ask about their "free shipping", if they use anything like UPS youwillget walloped at customs.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 04:55:14 am
content: If your use case allows connecting the oscilloscope to a laptop you might want to consider some of the low end USB scopes like the Owon VDS1022I which can be had for around $80 on AliExpress.(disclaimer: I'm only going by internet postings; I haven't used one)There's also the Digilent Analog Discovery. The first version can often be found on eBay for under $100.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 06:01:29 am
content: There are also some simple DIY "scopes" if you don't need to capture fast signals.e.g.https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-200Khz-Digital-Oscilloscope/

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 06:33:21 am
content: "Decoding" sounds like you want a logic analyzer.The $10 ones from amazon that look like this are surprisingly useful with sigrock/pulseview/saleae software

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 08:17:49 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on January 17, 2025, 06:33:21 amYeah, but no real time decoding on screen, which makes them a complete pain to use.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 08:21:38 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on January 16, 2025, 11:38:23 pmYep, UPS earns money from imports so theywillmake sure it gets 'processed' 'properly'.You could easily end up paying 50% more on a $100 item.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 11:10:44 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on January 16, 2025, 11:38:23 pmGood point ... I've never had any electronics get dinged for duty but my bike stuff almost always does.Pretty sure it's just regular post by their delivery times and also because he/they also referenced the recent postal strike being over here (in Canada) so assuming it will end up with Canada Post. With my bike stuff I found with Canada Post that only about 20% gets stopped and their processing fee is less thsan $10 which is the lowest compared to the other courier services. All the other fees are standard since it's just a straight tax rate & duty rate. I'm guessing the duty rate is higher for bike parts which is why they get stopped more than electronics.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 11:53:37 am
content: Ask anyway, even just for this "Free shipping for order amount over $99.", when the item is 99$...Also the item description says "built-in lithium battery", which means it falls under UN 3481.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 04:54:18 pm
content: If it does everything they claim then $150 isn't a bad price.If you can get it for $100 then that's a bonus ... but don't count on it.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 09:38:32 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 17, 2025, 08:17:49 amThat depends on what you are looking at. If your signal is just sending a couple data packets then on-screen decoding is fine and the logic analyzer still works for this, you just do a data capture and look at it.But if your sensor is a fire hose of data then on-screen decoding is mostly useless, especially if you are trying to find some infrequent data anomaly. In this case you want a logic analyzer data dump that you can analyze offline.Of course if you are having transmission line issue or some other analog type problem then you need a scope (with decent bandwidth to see edges and stuff).

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 11:00:11 am
content: I have the LA, the two oscilloscopes from DreamSourceLab. I can recommend all of them. It seems the DS4T252 is perfect for your needs.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 12:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: RAPo on January 18, 2025, 11:00:11 amThank you ... I think for my needs it's going to fit the bill.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 02:13:10 pm
content: Good luck and please report back your findings.Quote from: trifusion on January 18, 2025, 12:10:16 pm

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 03:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 17, 2025, 08:17:49 amPretty much no logic analyser decodes live onscreen. That's not how you use them. They're different to an oscilloscope - you record what happened and then analyse at your leisure, panning and zooming as required. The sort of data they're designed for (SPI, I2C etc in the case of the USB ones) wouldn't fit on a screen and be readable anyway. Also, you need 3 or 4 probes for SPI, not 2. 2 are enough for rs232/serial or I2C.I don't dispute that the OP wants a 'live' view and would encourage him to get an oscilloscope, either the best he can afford or one he can afford to replace when he appreciates it's weaknesses. But it won't find be a great deal of help live on those signals (on some there may be a history or zoom mode that functions like the logic analyser, or even a mode that's identical to the cheap one). Great for the piezo part though.But for $10 .. it's not an oscilloscope, it's a no-brainer.I often use one in preference to my big, expensive, heavy mixed-signal oscilloscope and full-sized logic analyser. I've even got one built in to a project.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 04:30:16 pm
content: The dstouch uses2-wirefor spi decoding as described inthis pdf.Quote from: artag on January 18, 2025, 03:40:16 pm

author: OLderDan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 11:01:02 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on January 17, 2025, 06:01:29 amI use a modified version of this and my 10" tablet and the scoppy ui to have a nice logic analyzer for basic confirmation before i hookup my usb la to pulseview and decode saved data on the big screen!

author: taligentx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2025, 12:17:32 am
content: The DS4T252 looks promising, it'd be nice to see a head to head comparison with the Zeeweii scopes (DSO2512G or DSO3D12). Also seems to be available via Amazon ($99USD) which is nice to avoid customs issues, but the seller may be third-party:https://www.amazon.com/DreamSourceLab-DS4T252-1mV-DSTouch-Oscilloscope/dp/B0DCFDX85M

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2025, 02:36:02 am
content: Quote from: taligentx on January 19, 2025, 12:17:32 amI would have preferred Amazon but they don't ship the DS4T252 to Canada (for some reason they do ship the logic analyzers) and the .ca store doesn't carry it. I ended up getting the DS4T252 direct from the company.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2025, 07:17:00 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 17, 2025, 08:17:49 amI have not tried recent versions of Sigrok or Pulseview , but Saleae Logic 2 software does indeed support decoding in real time.You can see it for yourself with the simulated demo device, which actually adjusts the simulated data to match the decoders you add - e.g. serial, DMX, or WS2811 LEDs.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 03:07:51 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on January 19, 2025, 07:17:00 amThat's why I said 'pretty much'. But I don't think Saleae are in the budget here. I also think it's of very limited use - it's primarily good on the Saleae because their newer analysers are actually 'scopes with analogue measurements on all channels, and it's expected on a scope. My Agilent scope will also decode in real time, even triggering on the serial data. But it's only useful if you want to see a couple of serial bytes immediately (or a very stable delay after) the trigger. if you're acquiring tens of bytes and looking to do protocol analysis, which is, at least, my usual need, then you can't display any byte stably except the first 2-3.I might be wrong, or misunderstanding what's wanted, so if you have a use case where live digital data is what's needed, I'd be interested to hear (and admit my error).

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 03:10:30 pm
content: Another possibility, slightly more expensive but perhaps more flexible and less effort than the Cypress-based boards (which are 90% only 8 bit) is this raspberry-pico based design.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 03:17:26 pm
content: Quote from: RAPo on January 18, 2025, 04:30:16 pmYes, but that device is output-only. If that's sufficient for your need, fine - but some spi devices pass data both ways as the app note states. I think I would dispute that 'most' devices omit the SDO pin. Although I've often encountered output-only devices, I think it's fairly rare to have a single IO pin on input devices. One good example of a device with both is the WS2805 SPI addressable LED.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 04:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 20, 2025, 03:07:51 pmMy Rigol DHO804 can record many kb of serial data, or hundreds of I2C packets, and show them in a table.I believe the Siglent can do the same.

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 06:32:14 pm
content: Re the original question, does anybody have experience with the SC02 dual-channel handheld?https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Oscilloscope-Portable-Channel-Bandwidth/dp/B0CH3ZYWS7Not as fast as others, but at under $40, it seems like a good value.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 06:53:09 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 20, 2025, 03:10:30 pmI'd love to see it achieve 400MHz with those probes! These people don't seem to realize that the probing system is anintegral(and expensive) part of a high speed LA design.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 06:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: Peabody on January 20, 2025, 06:32:14 pmfwiw I found this YouTube review:Trying out a £20 Sillyscope -- Oaf Electronicshttps://youtu.be/6ggLijMyODEand there's this one:Banggood: SCO2 Dual Channel Digital Oscilloscope 50M Sampling Rate 10MHz Analog Bandwidth EN,HU sub -- bzoli5706https://youtu.be/MUzz0Dgoojk

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 07:34:54 pm
content: Quote from: Peabody on January 20, 2025, 06:32:14 pmDoesn't even have proper probes. You'll have to buy them separately.Not enough buttons. The UI is probably a nightmare.

author: trifusion
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 12:08:01 pm
content: Quote from: RAPo on January 18, 2025, 11:00:11 amJust a quick follow-up, I ordered the DS4T252 on Jan 17 and received it yesterday (Feb 1), considering it was free shipping China to Canada it was reasonably fast, plus no duty so for $99US I think it was a great deal.I gave it a quick spin this morning and calibrated the probes. This literally only took me a minute or so, was super easy, considering I have never touched an oscilloscope before and just watched some youtube videos on them. I think this little scope will suit me very well. I have a couple of projects that will be fun to have this check out how different electrical components change the signal.Thank you to everyone who helped me with this purchase.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 12:59:38 pm
content: Thanks for the info and have fun with the device in your explorations.