Questionable Atlas Schindler Elevator engineering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 04:38:08 pm
content: Hello mates,this is the picture of the internals of a Atlas Schindler elevator, the building has 13 floors (two underground, ground and ten floors). The drive is faulty and the cabin wont move. The drive and motor are positioned above the 10th floor, there is no obvious access. The usual is to move the lift cabin up to 9th floor and use a ladder on top of it, but this obviously not possible as the cabin is locked on the 3rd floor. Does anyone knows the proper atlas procedure to replace the drive? What was Atlas thinking of this design?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 04:57:45 pm
content: Um, have you tried contacting the manufacturer or their service agents?!

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 05:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 04, 2025, 04:57:45 pmThe service agents are at site, they've no clue what to do. All their experience is based on 'bring the cabin close enough and use a ladder', but this drive is heavy, may weight 30kg or so, its hard (not to say, unsafe) to unbolt from the wall and lay it down on your shoulders.Also, what if was a bad motor or gearbox? How its supposed to bring this motor down without a hoist os similar fixture on site?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 05:39:36 pm
content: Presumably the issue isn't the engineering from Atlas Schindler, but the contractor who decided to put the drive in a location that is inaccessible. Don't they normally have 'power rooms' near to or above elevators with the equipment in them?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 05:41:50 pm
content: The yellow girders at the top of the shaft look like an obvious attachment point for a block and tackle and maybe even a service person with appropriate climbing harness. Maybe they were used during installation. I wouldn't dream of advising someone on how to risk their life though.

author: mojorizing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 06:02:32 pm
content: This is a Machine Room Less (MRL) elevator system. It will have a Inspection and Test Panel external of the hoistway on the top floor behind a access panel in the door jam. It provides testing , inspection, and diagnosics for the eleavator. Schindler refers to the panel as the“LDU”, or Landing Door Unit. After diagnotics are done, the car should be moved to the top floor then locked out. The drive , etc. will be reached using a ladder from the car top. The I beams are used with chainfall to rig the motor, etc. down for servicing.Have the service techs diagnosed a bad drive from reading the codes? If they're not trained in the servicing of this elevator, they must call their supervisor to bring out the right people.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 07:26:04 pm
content: Quote from: mojorizing on April 04, 2025, 06:02:32 pmThey've acessed this LDU and tried to make the elevator move, but the drive wont budge, looks the drive is totally dead, no diag at all.What should be the procedure to move the cabin is the driver is totally dead, lets say dead CPU or blown IGBTs....?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 07:29:16 pm
content: Find an elevator service technician who's also skilled at parkour?

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 08:57:45 pm
content: Well I guess this team is not trained to service "MRL" elevators after all. This lift is now mine, nor is in my building, just a situation a coworker is passing on his building.Tks to MOJORIZING to tipping off the "MRL" I found a few assembly manuals.They suggest to use a scaffold during assembly, the traction machine should be pulled with a hoist during assembly, so it must have some "anchor points" above the motor and drive,https://prelive-china.standard-elevators.com/manuals/MRL/MANUAL-MRL.pdfhttps://www.kleemannlifts.cn/sites/default/files/Atlas-Basic-SP-instalation-manual-en.pdfhttps://www.kleemannlifts.asia/sites/default/files/products_files/maison_sp_installation_manual_en.pdf

author: mojorizing
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 09:05:54 pm
content: Have you looked for access in the space above the hoist way in way of a normal "Machine room"? I see a seams in the roof of the elevator trunk in your picture. Go out onto the roof to verify.To manually raise the car you would have to release the emerg. and normal brakes while taking the weight of the car. The counter weight is only a percentage of the car weight. I don't know if there's a wrench drive on the end of the motor shaft to hand crank the car up. I wouldn't do this if you don't have access from above the I-beams.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 11:11:43 pm
content: I found this document (see page 18) that suggests the machine is installed from a temporary platform at the highest floor, which is removed after installation:https://www.schindler.com/content/dam/website/us/docs/elevators/schindler-3300/schindler-3300-mrl-elevator-brochure.pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/original./schindler-3300-mrl-elevator-brochure.pdfIn lieu of rebuilding a platform there, it seems something like a small boom lift through the highest floor's door opening is necessary.

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2025, 01:38:55 pm
content: Tks by your replies and suggestions, the thing has been sorted, about the platform and hoist way.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2025, 10:49:41 pm
content: I've got a question for you: that picture you posted, looking up at the hoist mechanism through the top-floor door, yes?Is that really the hoist mechanism for anelevator? I mean a carriage that human beings would actually enter?It looks like all that's holding the damn thing up are those two little brackets next to the rails. Relatively tiny little things.I can't believe that thing is safely rated for its function. It looks puny. And no cables?What am I missing here?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 03:41:18 am
content: Yes, it's a very cost- and size-reduced type of elevator, more similar to a winch. Look at the document I linked. The designers clearly thought it was enough to carry the rated load, and steel is surprisingly strong for its size.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 10:12:14 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on April 05, 2025, 10:49:41 pmGiven the elevator door visible in the left of the image, it’s clear we are looking at the left wall of the elevator shaft. There anre another bracket and rails on the right. So what you have is an elevator car that rides along rails on both sides, so it’s not a cantilever supported just on one side. In a sense, you can think of it as a metal tower (well, two ladders) anchored to the walls for stability. (And if you think that looks too flimsy, consider how construction cranes can lift enormous loads from very long cantilevers, using only comparatively thin framework.)The hoist cable (of which this has two) needs only to pull the weight of the car and passengers, which won’t be that much. (Consider how thin the winch cable on a pickup truck is, and that those can easily drag a sedan up a hill. An elevator car running on rails won’t have anywhere near as much friction or rolling resistance, and the elevator car won’t be heavy either.) And remember that the hoist cable is NOT a single point of failure: elevators have had redundant safety mechanisms for over a century, so if the hoist cable were to snap, the car falls a few inches before the safety mechanism clamps onto the rails, securing the car. (At least that’s what happens almost all of the time, there have been examples of the safety mechanisms failing, but it’s rare, and requires multiple failures to occur at once, typically due to long-term neglect. A regularly maintained and inspected elevator won’t have those issues.)The design of this elevator is clearly shown in a nice diagram in the PDF amyk posted a link to.Quote from: Analog Kid on April 05, 2025, 10:49:41 pmI assume you mean electrical cables? That’s the black ribbon visible in the photo. Modern elevator electrical cables are combined into ribbon cables. They’re just a smidgen thicker than what we use for IDC connectors.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 02:12:41 pm
content: As safety and liability are at risk, suggest to seek advise and solution from authorized Atlas Schindler elevator service firmif the exisitng techs cannot solve, get aother firm and complain to their manager.VERY dangerous to get advise off a forum lik EEVblogJon

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 02:37:55 pm
content: Yes, elevators are dangerous vehicles if not properly repaired.Schindler elevators had to be withdrawn in Japan due to a fatal accident.isn't it illegal for someone who is not qualified to do repairs? In Japan, at least, it is.If you have legit qualifications, you would call Schindler, not some uncertain internet source. Before you kill someone else.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 02:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 04, 2025, 05:39:36 pmActually it's designed to be mounted this way, with no room for HW access.https://elevation.fandom.com/wiki/Machine_room_less_elevator

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2025, 06:37:39 am
content: lmfao you gotta do confined space technical extrication operation on a electronic box on a OVERHEAD point!the procedure looks like its going to be a big pain in the ass involving insured specialistsThe people that usually do this probably will laugh at having to do it on a electronic box of all things. and they probobly wont know shit about electronics