Self Contained Solder Paste Dispenser  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 04:53:41 am
content: What's the cheapest self contained pump solder paste dispenser?

author: c64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 07:37:45 am
content: If you need manual. I use the one like thishttps://www.aliexpress.com/i/32990561935.htmlWorks OK.I buy solder paste already in syringe (like this onehttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000800214895.html) - the syringe is smaller, so I replaced the plunger with a smaller one (3d-printed)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 07:49:05 am
content: Quote from: c64 on June 05, 2020, 07:37:45 amNo I'm talking about a proper air compressor one, but one that has a built in air compressor unlike say one of these:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32991032657.htmlWhich looks fine, but needs the external air compressor.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 08:00:17 am
content: When I searched for something like this a few years ago, I couldn't find anything affordable and settled for buying one of these cheap Chineses control units plus a very silent airbrush compressor.Back then also some electrical variants (mostly DIY) became available, but none of them seemed to be able to directly/fully use prefilled cartridges.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 11:58:50 am
content: Pretty sure if they run off air they almost all expect an air supply. You could expend your search parameters to include fluid dispensing rather than solder paste specifically but some of those will use peristaltic pumps or other unsuitable methods. Air is a shit way of dispensing anyway, the i-extruder or similar 3d printed diy efforts are probably just as good or better.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 06:06:53 pm
content: I've seen a few promising projects where a stepper motor with a screw is mounted on the back on a syringe.These do not have nor require an air compressor, but because your question is vague I still mention them.Hackaday has made a collection of these (mostly hobby) versions:https://hackaday.com/?s=solder+paste+dispenserOne of the projects mentioned at Hackaday runs form a can of compressed "air".Compressors are noisy & expensive and a solder paste dispenser does not need much air, so this may be a cheap yet viable alternative.https://hackaday.com/2011/06/27/solder-paste-dispenser-hacked-to-run-off-compressed-air-cans/A few similar devices have made it to kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites. For example the "I-extruder" was a kickstarter in 2017 and is now avaiable for slightly below USD200https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2129383335/i-extruder-smart-solder-paste-and-fluids-dispenserHere is another one from Tindie:https://www.tindie.com/products/danm/dm-solder-paste-and-adhesive-dispenser/This one though has to be one of the cheapest.No need for compressed air, nor electricity, just a simple mechanical device.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 07:01:26 pm
content: Air compressors quite often require some maintenance for leaky gaskets/O-rings and fittings. I don't see the allure of a "built-in" compressor unless you want a disposable paste dispenser.Quiet, inexpensive aircompressors are fairly ubiquitous these days. 10 years ago there was California Air Tools. Today, most of the major brands make them. Even Harbor Freight. It might be a challenge finding the space under your bench, but you could always run some air lines under there and place the compressor farther away?If I planned to depend on it, I would definitely want them separate. That way you can swap the compressor and keep going if you don't have the time to stop and find/fix an air leak. If a little airbrush compressor can run these devices, you might even be able to run one of these off a small air tank and regulator for a reasonable amount of time, and periodically refill it with any of your compressors that is working, ATM.If you haven't shopped for a small air compressor in the last 5 or 10 years, you might be surprised at what's out there in the quiet category. Now is a good time for an upgrade or a first purchase. And they're truly quiet. My old compressor is perhaps the loudest power tool in my garage. I'm sure I have some hearing damage, because it was painful to turn it on inside the garage, at first, but I got used to it. My new quiet compressor is really fast, and it's probably the quietest power tool in my garage. Noise of a jigsaw at half speed cutting air. Rated at 60 decibels, IIRC.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 10:31:40 pm
content: This a problem that I still didn't solve, I already tried a lot of solutions, all stacks on the same problem work only on day 1, after that, you will lose the needle, The solder paste will need to be replaced or reprocessed. Will be a mess, and you will need everything fresh new againTake a look at some interesting trials this guy made ( some I replicate and are a good solution, But at day one only ) as all other solutionshttps://www.youtube.com/user/xpixer/search?query=solder+pasteThe fact is that the solder paste was designed to print on a silkscreen way not to be used with syringes, ( this is us forcing the thing because we don't have a stencil )

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 11:20:30 pm
content: ^LOL. I can't imagine a use for a paste dispenser for PCB work, myself. But I imagine there are legit uses in rework (and probably many more uses in repetitive production work/rework; in production work, you never know what obscure tool will be a lifesaver.)In fact, Doctorandus_P's video link was hilarious to me. If this inventor has gone through the trouble of inventing a solder paste dispenser, you would imagine he had an actual need, other than wasting time and effort. It looks like a dude confusing model airplane-making with assembling a PCB. You'd think he would have an example/demo that was actually useful.Some small BGA/LXXX parts, or something? I really don't know what this would be useful for, so I'm guessing; but that video demo was not it. The dispensing looks great, though.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 02:16:28 am
content: Simple tools like shown in the video link do have a place in the hobby market, and for single prototypes, where setting up a complete pick and place machine for a single PCB is more work than doing it by hand.A handful of empty PCB's from China are cheap and easy. Getting the parts on them is not so easy to do fast and cost effective.MikesElectricStuff has made an excellent video with tips for hand assembling PCB's. He says that for production runs of up to 100 to 200 parts it's usually quicker to do by hand than setup his Pick & Place machine. @ around 10 minutes he starts about paste dispensers. He uses a system with an external compressor and a foot pedal (He makes quite a lot of PCB prototypes), and says that he has also used cans of compressed air before.Also: Just do a little research on the amount of people making PCB's in toaster ovens and frying pans and you'll get an idea for the market for this stuff.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 06:42:04 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 05, 2020, 11:20:30 pmIf you don't have stencil for the board then a dispenser is handy.Altium used to have one these:

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 07:49:08 am
content: QuoteI know people do it. Mike's video was one of the first videos I watched when learning how to "PCB." This video was an influence in my decision to buy a reflow oven. Which I haven't used in probably 7+ years, now. I have never really done a board where it helps much if at all. I haven never seen anyone else manually paste a board where I think it would help, either (other than Dave's BGA video; where the machine takes several minutes to lay down those dots!) I'm sure it's because my boards are 2 layers, no super heavy planes, no BGA's. But I see other people manually pasting 2 layer boards with simple components... and I imagine they must not know their way around a soldering iron.It felt like progress, at the time. Like buying a reflow oven was adding new capabilities; all the cool kids use paste and reflow ovens and skillets. But it was a rabbit hole for me. At the end there was no gold. I apparently don't have the need for these tools, yet. And maybe I'm a little handier with an iron than the average bear.After a couple years of looking cool and high tech in my lab, I put the oven away into deep storage due to the embarrassment and feeling of personal failure I have when looking at it.

author: Styno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 09:16:20 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 05, 2020, 10:31:40 pmTo prevent the paste drying up in the needle we just left it on the syringe and simply inserted a copper or iron wire with a snugly fitting diameter in the needle afterwards. Worked well for years.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 09:51:07 am
content: Or use plastic nozzle which you can dispose of. Actually, I made the experience that pushing the paste through a (hollow) needle requires much more force/pressure and therefore causes much more problems than using plastic nozzles.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 10:48:32 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 05, 2020, 07:49:05 amMy experience has shown me that it becomes difficult to achieve an exact positioning of the solder if you have to operate the pump mechanism with the same hand at the same time. Especially when pulling tracks (a TSSOP 20 chip for example will get just two thin tracks of solder, not 20 individual dots) it becomes difficult.It is much better to use the hand only for positioning and to operate the pump with a foot switch.I use exactly the LY 983A paste dispenser posted by Dave. But I don't use all the timers and digital displays - because the paste behaves differently every day and the solder pads have different sizes. The adjustable times on the device are only useful if you e.g. set hundreds of dots with glue every day. For soldering paste it is less useful (when purchasing I thought I would need it, but it was wasted money). Since I only work 100% manually anyway, I would buy the cheaper manual version today:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32720970790.htmlThis is otherwise identical and is completely sufficient.A system with a built-in pump is not a good idea, as the air consumption is not almost zero after all, because after each shot the pressure in the system is completely released and a small vacuum is created so that the paste does not continue to run. In a system with pump-only and no air tank, there would not be enough pressure available for the next shot (with a little experience, you can dispense solder to up to 5 pads per second - but only if the pressure is always the same and available immediately).A pump with an air tank as a buffer of at least 1 liter is therefore a must.I am using an old super silent (almost audible 1 meter away) airbrush compressor. I will post a link later.Edit: The mentioned compressor is a HTC 20A, also available from many other manufacturers. Just search for20A compressor. It is working with a compressor kind you can find in a freezer (also sounds the same, so the noise is the same as on your freezer).**Note 1: the tank is small and the amount of air per minute is limited. This compressor is nothing to operate any larger tools with.Note 2: you can find them used on Ebay or Craigs list quite often. Be aware it contains oil and the compressor has openings (e.g. air inlet) on the top. It'll be a mess if it's not emptied first by the sender.**Do not rip one from an old freezer: it would release a huge amount of ozone damaging gases into the atmosphere. Of course you might ask at a recycling center to get an old freezer compressor, though you still would need to add: air pressure tank, valves, pressure sensor, pressure relief valve.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 10:57:54 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 05, 2020, 10:31:40 pmThis is only true with the plastic nozzles. With the metal nozzles it is different:a) I am closing them after usage with a piece of smooth rubber. Usually they still can be used then days or weeks later. The first two or three solder pads are not nice then, just place them on a piece of paper.b) Very seldom, the nozzle will be blocked. Either free them with a thin piece of wire or throw the nozzle away (these costs only less than 10 cents each). Warming them upa bitwith a heat gun will help too to free the blocked nozzle.Where the plastic nozzles will contain quite a lot of solder paste, the metal nozzles don't; thus trowing one away is not a big deal.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 07:03:25 pm
content: ^Why not just use the black luer lock screw on caps? I buy them for 4-5 cents each. Is paste that expensive?I used the tapered plastic nozzles and the black screw caps, when I evaluated manual pasting. 1 tip, 1 cap, a little bit of paste tossed per use.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2020, 08:26:50 pm
content: My actual setup is1 ml syringePlastic NoseEverything disposable and maintained in a refrigeratorIt's for use on the same day only maybe the 2nd one alsoI buy the big solder paste Syringe, fill up several small 1 ml syringes put all on the refrigerator.When need, put a new plastic needle, use for 1 or 2 days and trash away everythingIt's a waste of paste, nozzles, and everything. Environment hates this setup but is the unique reasonable solution I found, To have a ready to use " scheme"