I Hate Batteries - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:22:07 pm
content: Has anyone stepped back to consider how annoying and stupid they are?My multimeter was starting to act a bit goofy. Turn it on, and sometimes it comes on for a sec then goes off. Other times it's fine. I'm thinking "Hmm...battery??". But no battery indicator. And no way of verifying whether it has 10 minutes or 10 months of charge left.So I find another pair of AAA's (of course the freakin' thing needs AAA's, not the crap-ton of AA's I have...so I had to steal from another device, after spending 1/2 hour looking around for a device that uses AAA's). And I try them and it's even worse. Apparently those batteries were dead. Who knew??So I scrounge some more and fine 2 more AAA's, and, VOILA !!! They seem to work. Of course it's always a crap shoot to guess the state of the battery. And they never give you warning, they just die. And it's never the size that you have a supply of. Oh, I hope they're AA's...nope, its a 9V...or shoot, it's 6 AAA's...or a couple of D cells...and so on.And no, I'm not going to go out and buy multiple battery analyzer devices for all the different types of batteries I encounter. Or different chargers for them all. I just pulled a couple of unmarked, 4v lead acid batteries from a device, and who the hell knows what analyzers or chargers will work. And then you have to get into the science of CV and CC charging for different types? No freakin' way. I'll just toss them.Oh, but I can't because the battery drop off place is closed due to COVID.And when you go to the store they don't give you the intelligent choice (rechargeables), but instead give you racks full of packs of 64 freakin' AAA's that you'll never use, and it costs an arm and a leg. So you need to keep a stock of 6 different battery types, most of which you'll never use. Until you need it and don't have it. Just to annoy you.And then when you tear down a piece of equipment you're gonna use for parts, and find some specialized batteries you might be able to use you then have to figure out how the hell to charge that particular type of battery without it blowing up the house. And how to solder wires on them without blowing up the house.I hate batteries.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:56:04 pm
content: There is a simple fix to that:1) Have all your batteries that you don't currently use in one place, together with a volt meter for the AA & 9V variants. If you need one, just grab it and check the voltage.2) Get a universal charger for rechargable batteries. I can recommend a charger from iSDT, they are cheap and cover everything from lead acids to li-ions. Just build yourself a few XT60 cables with different attachements (bare wires, AA/AAA mounts etc) and you are good to go. If you don't fancy doing that attach a machine screw to the end of the cable and use neodymium magnets to attach the cable to the battery terminals. Or just use your bench power supply, it will most definitely support CC and CV charging.And i rarely see anything other than AA, AAA, 18650 and maybe 9V blocks. Just keep a bunch of those in stock and use Amazon prime if you run into a weird format.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 06:36:32 am
content: So you hate rubbish DMMs which fail to report undervoltage before it affects their operation?Sorry man, even my old $10 UNI-T gets this right with a latched low battery indicator which triggers at some 2/3 nominal voltage, well before the meter starts to act up

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 09:39:11 am
content: Quote from: magic on April 07, 2020, 06:36:32 amYou must have the improved version, as the first time I ran into just this problem, it was with an old UNI-T.(when it wasn't that old).The dumb thing measured low on the resistance range, & some "gurus" were trying to troubleshoot a device where some other dumb people had fitted a resistor which was too high in value.---A perfect storm!The resistor was supposed to be 15k, & the UNI-T said it was 14k, so the "gurus" passed the resistor as OK, & went off with all sorts of silly theories about the fault."Blind Freddie" (with the help of a penlight) could see the colour code read 27k.My Fluke 77 read it as around 22k (it had a few other higher value resistors hanging off it in the circuit).

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 10:06:53 am
content: I have a set of rechargeable AA, AAA and 18650 laying around. The A series are low self-discharge NiMH. Which, hmm, they've probably been sitting around long enough I need to top them up again, come to think of it; I don't use them very often after my old camera died. Anyway, and the 18650s are Li ion of course, which I mainly use in projects like flashlights.Just swap out a set and go. Put the used ones on the charger, then put them back in the pile. $20 will buy you enough for several meters and a decade or more of use. Don't get the cheap, "high capacity" cells: they self-discharge painfully quick (possibly faster than your meter uses them while on!), and wear out quickly. Plus if they're cheap enough, they'll lie about their capacity to begin with. Don't get an overly cheap charger either: it'll cook the cells rather than stopping when full. (Can also slum it with a bench supply, if you so choose; monitor them carefully, NiMH has an odd charging curve.)Tim

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 10:23:25 am
content: Quote from: magic on April 07, 2020, 06:36:32 amWell, no. The timing of the reporting of the meter is absolutely irrelevant isn't it? Even if the meter reported a low battery earlier the issue remains. You need replacements. You don't know the status of the replacements. You need a stock of many types of replacements. And so on....BTW, as I mentioned, to highlight the issue (and for those who are somehow convinced this is an easy issue to resolve)...I pulled sometotallyunmarked batteries out of a device. I measured the open circuit terminal volts with my meter, and it reads 4.15 volts. How long will they last?If you like batteries, then fine. I hate them. With good reason.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 12:49:14 pm
content: For AA, AAA, and 9 volt, I switched to rechargeables a while back. I've saved hundreds of dollars so far. Enough to pay for the chargers and batteries many times over.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:08:38 pm
content: What I would love to see is a standard moving towards lithium ion. 18650 and similar cells. Maybe have one the size of an AAA but not quite same size, and then 18650 for larger devices.Or another thing would be for devices to be designed around the voltage of rechargeable alkaline replacements instead of non rechargeable. The lower voltage of Ni-MH compared to alkaline usually means the device won't perform or last as long as it will hit the low voltage cut off sooner. Especially devices that need 4+ in series as the voltage drop adds up. I try to use rechargeables where I can though. There are places I found where they just don't work, like Wii remotes. Would be interesting to see if you could retro fit lithium ion in those. Not sure what the voltage tolerance is though. A single lithium cell is going to be a little bit more voltage than two alkalines and it might not like that and it might let the magic smoke out.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:24:55 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on April 07, 2020, 12:49:14 pmGood point. I did the same thing. So you need a stock of 3 types of rechargeable batteries, plus two chargers. Oh wait, you forgot the C and D cells for flashlights and R/C and other stuff. So that's 5 types. And more chargers. And remembering to keep them all in stock and charged. And do you have one of those battery powered drills?BTW, have you noticed how difficult it is to find AA/AAA/9V rechargeables in the supermarket?The whole thing is a huge PITA.

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:25:57 pm
content: If you have an IKEA nearby (or if they deliver cheaply), the IKEA LADDA AA and AAA NiMH batteries are very good. The made in Japan models come out of the only NiMH factory in Japan, which is where some of the famous Eneloops come from.I tested them a while back and comparing them to the latest generation Eneloop they only showed 1% lower capacity or so, very nice considering they are a quarter the cost!Not only do I save money in the long run, I don't worry about leaking alkalines any more. On the other hand sometimes friends and family do me a favour and replace the batteries when they borrow stuff...

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 02:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 07, 2020, 10:23:25 amYou can always build a battery eliminator and forget about them.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 03:02:28 pm
content: Out of curiosity I decided to make a quick scan of those devices around the house that require batteries. At least the ones I can think of off the top of my head.Below is a list of them. Wow.Turns out I have at least 30 batteries in various devices, but when all is said and done I'm sure it's closer to 40 total. I know there's another TV remote around here somewhere, and I was too lazy to open up my R/C boat to see how many D (??) cells are in there. Oh yeah, and I know I've got another bluetooth mouse around here somewhere.There are 5 different sizes, and I have no clue what charge state ANY of them are in. So yeah, trying to manage 40 batteries of 5 different sizes and varying (& unknown) ages and states in 15+ different devices is a freakin' PITA.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 03:16:35 pm
content: I have a text file on my phone with all the batteries in test gear and when they were last charged.I bought a crap load of ikea ladda batteries and keep a spare set in each instrument case (some equipment lives at work, some in the car, some in my toolbag and some at home).Things I don’t use often are stored with the batteries out of the device. I found having a list there makes it harder to forget the obscure thing tucked away on a shelf.I have a isdt charger from hobby king that handles eneloops and other chemistries and gives quite a lot of information. The self discharge on the eneloop / Ladda batteries really is quite low.Since I started doing this I’ve not been caught with a flat battery in about 3 years and it doesn’t take that much effort.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 03:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: pardo-bsso on April 07, 2020, 02:59:47 pmActually I just did that with a portable LED light. Bought a cool little buck converter and wired it up and it's wonderful. Unfortunately that won't work with stuff like my flashlights and multimeter and R/C stuff and TV remote and magnifying glass and blood pressure meter and so on....

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:12:29 pm
content: get a dewalt organizer box to put batteries in, they hold AA, AAA, C and 9V quite well. The smaller one.1) don't mix cell types (brands). If you are paranoid, don't even mix cells from different boxes. Organizer box is important for this!. Due to their nature they are not a stable component as we are used to with things like foil capacitors.2) don't mix cells used with different loads. You can't just measure voltage after its used and expect a reliable battery If you start making franken batteries out of multiple cells, If you have to resort to doing this, don't leave them in the device but keep the frankenbats separate. If you pull a cell out of an alarm clock and a cell out of a flashlight and combine them, expect bad things to happen eventually. The dewalt organizer is good because you get alot of compartments that the cells fit in, so you can segregate them (throw in a piece of post it note). This is considered really cheap, typically you are not supposed to mess with them after you install them till they are dead.. but they are expensive unfortunately. This has to do with electrolye migration and state of charge and gas pressure buildup. Measuring voltage is good, for making survivalist/emergency stockpile BACKUP (i.e. convenience). Not even a primary emergency stock.3) respect the battery life date.4) Spend a couple of dollars on good NiMH to put in stuff that is a bastard incase of leaks (i.e. barrel flashlights that you leave in car). Alkaline is a good value if its in something beefy that you check some what frequently, it's capacity and discharge characteristics are good. Keep spares for lower capacity NiMH stuff if you are in a bind (alkaline backup).5) realize alot of devices suck and they have too high a standby current which can kill batteries. Most reliable is hard switch. Soft switch devices can be hit or miss. Designers can't make the circuit good enough in consumer objects with price points on soft switches sometimes so companies end up selling leaky BS.6) avoid Zinc/Carbon unless you really can't afford alkaline. They are set to blow.7)battery reuse is riskyBatteries are great but they are not easy to use because of price psychology. If you are cheap with everything you do, you will naturally suck with batteries because they are complex. I recommend a 6 month review, its like checking to make sure you don't have a leak under the sink.. yea, when you first realize it takes effort, anxiety... I was purging shady cells for like 2 months before I got everything on track. I feel like you can go through a big portion of life without thinking about batteries, but eventually you get into some kind of systemic failure situation that makes you change your ways.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:32:24 pm
content: Wow, coppercone2, you mean they're even FAR more of a PITA than I thought???

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:33:35 pm
content: It's a electrochemical reactor filled with caustics or flammables that lasts for 5-10 years that you buy for like 1.25, so yesGood value, eliminates voltage regulators, low noise, small.. you can't hate on batteries. Also, watch out for brand name OEM stuff. Its better then Chaobang but still. Freebee batteries included with stuff have a surprise on the label, even if they look mostly good. Less QC etc.The problem with cheap stuff is the time constants are so long, process variations occur (just look at Amazonbasics quality change!)... its hard to determine experimentally whats going on.. you need like frathernity knowledge, or pay for top5 brand.Not to mention massive intrinsic safety on alkaline.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:44:47 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 07, 2020, 01:24:55 pmYou're doing it wrong.Forget the supermarket, buy the batteries online ahead of when you need them. You need AA, AAA and 9V in most cases, C and D can be handled with adapters or you can buy alkaline C and D cells for the rare application that needs them. At least 95% of my needs are met with AA, AAA and 9V. I have an organizer tray in the desk drawer where I keep the stock of charged batteries, the charger lives on the desk and next to it is a dish in which to deposit batteries that need charging if the charger is already occupied. There's always a fresh stash in the drawer so whenever something needs them I grab a set and toss the drained ones in the charger. If I start to have too many in circulation to keep an adequate supply I simply order some more. It's a complete non-issue.RC stuff is separate, I have a box of LiPo packs and the chargers I use for that stored in my gear bag that I haul to the field with me, I'd need all that stuff anyway and it's a lot less hassle than messing with glow fuel.I also have some 18650s and a charger for those, again that's specialist stuff that meets a particular need.Oh and I have 2 cordless drills, a reciprocating saw, circular saw and screw gun, I gave away my corded drill, I use my bigger corded circular saw when I need to cut something big. I've been shopping around planning to get a cordless electric string trimmer because dragging a cord around is a PITA and I got tired of messing with the gasoline powered one and gave that away.I love batteries, I hate being tethered by wires. I've been using rechargeable batteries in everything for more than a decade now and don't have any of the troubles you complain about.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:45:34 pm
content: And they are good because if you have them, you can make banks for different voltage rails and when you are done testing a circuit's power systems (i.e. your own PCB), you hook it up to batteries while you run analog/performance tests.. then if you like it, you can work on the mains, rechargable, etc power system (like most circuits have local regulation then you do pre regulation with a switcher, transformer/cap, etc). For low power stuff its good. You can turn off some supplies and get rid of some cabling dangling around and make it more mobile temporarily, even if your final solution is going to be mains powered. Bit of a luxury though, to use this method.. if you are good with crimps/adapters you can really clean things up, and reduce lab heat.I.e. if you have RF equipment racks, and a complicated power system with many rails, it makes sense to test the basic stuff on a basic work bench then power it on batteries and then work on the advanced bench. In some cases. I sometimes feel like I am being stormed by dials and knobs and stuff for no reason, but I am not at the point where I want to make the mains part of a circuit.I am focusing on lab use of batteries. Of course any power tool thats modern is usually better with batteries, even gardening equipment now, unless you are doing alot of work.. IMO. But you need good stuff.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:52:12 pm
content: Wow, never thought there's actually a group of battery fanboys out thereEspecially ones who make long lists of the issues and annoyances with batteries, and then claim they're awesomeApologies. Here I thought with the wall outlet you just plug it in and it works, but with batteries it's a whole annoying management process and science project.DOH!!!What was I thinking??

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:53:15 pm
content: they are advanced.. I don't know if you can call it an annoyance, electronics is just hard. Makes some sense anyway if you don't want to leave 3 supplies running over a week to test a 5mA draw circuit or something. To me its like clamps in a wood shop or welding. More options less stress with a bit of management.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 07, 2020, 04:53:15 pmAhh..okay..they're only for the really smart guys

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:56:10 pm
content: pretty much seems like it

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 04:58:14 pm
content: MOM!!!!!! WHY WONT PHYSICS WORK!!!!!!>?!??!?!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 05:05:03 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 07, 2020, 04:52:12 pmI have no idea, I wouldn't call myself a "battery fanboy" but I certainly love not being tethered by power cords. Come up with an alternative to batteries that doesn't require wires or noisy temperamental engines and I'll get in line to get one. Anyway it just sounds like you are ranting about a non-issue, something many of us solved so many years ago that we're having difficulty comprehending the problem.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 05:07:51 pm
content: when you first realize you are totally surrounded by franken batteries reminds me of the scene from platoon where the perimeter is over run. You start opening things up, counting, doing some math.. the numbers really never come out good. Then you keep finding stuff you forgot about.. then it turns out 3 objects leaked, you don't know how to clean it, get a bunch of repair jobs on your mind and you are stuck inside because of COVID19.I think its just a panic attackand its vietnam because those people have snakes everywhere! looks like AT&T. Do a little bit of home repair and it looks like the thing is growing in there infesting the floor because everything is corded. People walking around tangled with wires 2 power tools in the hands that shits crazy!

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 05:12:14 pm
content: The solution is ....Panasonic EneloopA bit pricey, but they just last/BingoPs: I might have to look into the IKEA LADDA , but they compare LADDA to Eneloop Pro ...Strage as Eneloop Pro is spec'ed for 500 charge cycles , and LADDA for 1500 , Normal Eneloop are speced for 2000 cycles

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 06:20:21 pm
content: Nearly every device I can think of in my house that uses replaceable batteries takes either AA or AAA. I have a flashlight that can use 2x C, but it came with adapters in place which each hold 3x AA in parallel. It's an LED flashlight, so they last fine. AA for the laser in my saw, AAA for the TV remote, at home I don;t use a wireless keyboard or mouse, why bother? I rarely use my old Fluke 8060A which takes a 9V, it needs another shot at repair to make it usable again anyway. My newer ones are AA and AAA. I'm trying to think of something that uses a different size and am coming up blank at the moment.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 07:29:45 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on April 07, 2020, 09:39:11 amOkay, that's a rather unpleasant story. I'm talking specifically about my UT-30 (succeeded by UT-33 these days). I haven't really tested every damn function under mild undervoltage conditions, but I have never had problems with it unless using it for several days after low battery warning.The warning appears at about 6V, still giving the good old ICL7106 ±3V rails to work with. I think it would be fine. As an aside, the warning is generated by the 7106 itself which means they use not just a clone but a somewhat improved one.Speaking of batteries, I have a few 8.4V NiMHs for that sort of devices. No drama: low battery warning shows up, I put the battery in a charger for a few hours, problem solved.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 06:13:27 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on April 07, 2020, 06:20:21 pmI have a vintage Sangean shortwave radio that takes 3 D batteries in addition to two AA batteries. I also have virtual walls for my Roombas that each take a pair of D batteries, and my wireless weather station consoles take C batteries. The virtual walls are the only thing I use real D batteries in, everything else is Eneloop AA's in adapters.I've even got LSD NiMH "9V" batteries in my smoke alarms, whenever the first one starts to chirp I cycle them all through the charger, works out to about once every 9 months. I don't even remember the last time I bought disposable batteries, they're obsolete IMO.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 06:55:52 am
content: If you need the 9 volt type for something that goes through them fast (not smoke detectors), I've had very good luck with EBL brand lithium-ion type. They have almost the same capacity as alkaline, whereas NiMH is pretty weak. I have some that have been recharged dozens of times now. I'm sure there's other good brands too. I think I paid about $15 for two batteries and a charger. Money well spent considering the cost of 9 volt alkalines at local stores.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 10:53:20 am
content: Oh yeah, I forgot about smoke alarms. Coincidentally a couple weeks ago I had an annoying chirper and used my last 9V so I have to go out and buy another pack. I've got about 5 smoke alarms around my house. And probably see if I can find a charger too. Not sure I've ever seen rechargeable 9V batteries in the supermarket. Or 9V chargers.And I also need more C cells for my almost dead flashlight. And see if I can find a C/D charger.Yeah, piece of cake....

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 12:44:33 pm
content: Okay, so after quite a bit of Amazon research, I've found what seems to be a way to deal with my battery annoyances.There is a universal battery charger (Chinese mfr named "Bonai" ??) for about $20 that apparently natively charges AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V batteries. And it plugs into the wallPeople seem to like it...it has 917 4-5 star ratings. But it doesn't come with any batteries.So to get a full stock of rechargeable batteries (AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V) will cost me something like $70 for Energizers. So a total, with taxes and shipping for all of this (batteries plus charger), of over $100.Now I know the fanboys will scream about not buying Enerloops or whatever, but it seems to me that if you're going to have all rechargeables then why pay more for longer lasting batteries? Just throw them in the charger when they die.And I saw the "adapter" things that Enerloop provides, whereby you can stick a AA into a C-cell-looking case, thereby only needing to have a stock of AA's. Which seems fine, but why bother when you can get a universal charger? I'm assuming AA's don't have the same amp hour rating as C's? Oh, and the enerloop charger doesn't do 9V batteries either does it?So now the big question:Does this PITA, annoying battery situation reach the levels of "okay, this is driving me crazy...I need to go out and spend some $$ to fix this right now", or is it one of those nagging annoyances that only raises its head once every few months or so and doesn't really warrant anything more than an occasional rant?Hmm....and I'll also probably have to find (or order) someplace to store the batteries. And I was just about to order about $100 worth of parts to finish modifying my power supply.Damn batteries...

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 12:46:42 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 08, 2020, 10:53:20 amCan I help you with your quest?AA/AAA batteries -https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-BK-3MCCA16FA-eneloop-Pre-Charged-Rechargeable/dp/B07QZKBQ3B/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=panasonic%2Beneloop&qid=1586349039&sr=8-3&th=1Charger for them -https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-K-KJ75MC64ZA-eneloop-Adapters-Individual/dp/B07MXY3363/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=panasonic+eneloop&qid=1586349783&sr=8-12(extra batteries/charger and adapters for C/D size)9V batteries -https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VCHYW86/ref=twister_B07VGNBYHH?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 01:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 08, 2020, 12:44:33 pmYou seem to be implying a degree of irrationality that isn't there...Correct option depends on usage pattern.Large capacity, fast self discharge types are fine for heavy use. Using a DSLR professionally (or very enthusiastically at least)? It probably gobbles batteries. Well, if it doesn't use packs or an internal battery, this is a perfect use for them.Very light loads, meters, remote controls, smoke detectors, etc.: doesn't matter, they would run out in a month. Don't bother. Stick with alkaline, or get eneloops. FYI, Tenergy is another brand of LSD type cells, also just fine.Universal chargers (i.e., single cell, almost any size) are fine, yes. NiMH isn't charged by, well, charge, but by temperature; it heats up when it's done. The charger either senses that directly, or the (very slight) drop in voltage coincident with it.You don't really have any way to tell if this is what the charger is doing, until you've got it home and can monitor it as it does its job...What you definitely don't want, is a dumb charger that sits there cooking the cells. Charge cycles cause wear, and overcharging kills them many times faster.It's better, IIRC, to let the HSD cells bleed out if you're not using them, and just top them up as needed. LSD stay charged long enough that they'll probably stay usefully charged until needed.Tim

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 02:15:12 pm
content: Thanks T3sl4co1l, but the only "degree of irrationality" I'm implying is for those who have made up their minds that they can't even comprehend how some can find the whole issue of batteries to be an annoying PITA, and instead have decided that what they personally like or have found useful should apply to the entire universe.But as you so clearly highlight, this is a very complex topic and depends on a lot of things, including technical stuff that requires a ton of research (if you're willing to go down the detailed technical rabbit holes), personal levels of tolerance, usage patterns, equipment capabilities, and on and on.As with most things in the universe, there is no "right" answer here, although we humans tend to want to believe otherwise. It depends. The only irrationality I'm implying is for those who can't comprehend that.Personally, I'm tending towards trying the $20 universal charger and getting some rechargeables. It's a coin toss. I like the idea of having a combination charger that also does 9V batteries for those annoying smoke detectors as well as C cells for my flashlight. But maybe the device is crap. Who knows. There's no right answer.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 03:02:08 pm
content: Anyway, so I just ordered the Bonai universal charger and a handful of 9V and AAA rechargeables. Shoot...I forgot to order the C cells for my flashlightThough I guess it will be a while before I find out how well this charger performs. Won't get here until April 30.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 04:56:26 pm
content: Long post but not worth a thread. Sorry to hijack.My car wouldn't start. Chug, Chhhhuuuuug, chu... click, click.I jumped it with my marine battery off the solar panel. First question. Why did the car struggle to start, even with a fresh off the charger, fully charged 100Ah marine battery claiming 900 cranking amps?My guess. 2 meters of jump leads and crusty oxidized terminals, causing enough voltage drop that over 200Amps they were unable to keep the voltage up.Second question. Why did the battery go flat?Social distancing I have been in the house, working from home for "I don't know anymore Wilson, how long has it been?", "A month", said the ball, eyeing him carefully, 'Don't want your human going nuts after all.', he thought.4 weeks with only a trip to the shop each week.60Ah starter battery that's 3 years old, has done regular 1 hour commute and a bunch of "social, domestic, leisure and pleasure" driving. Must have well over 2000 cycles on it with most around 10% depth of discharge. One or two longer sit up periods a year with DOD maybe 30-40%.So it's done it's time, never been properly flattened. Now stand it up for a week, go to the shop, stand it for a week... repeat.If the battery can't really start a car below 50% charge level, say, 30Ah divided by a week of 168 hours is around 185mA to drain it 50% in a week. ~2 Watts.A modern car won't draw that, so it didn't die in a week, it took 4 weeks.Why didn't driving it charge it?Start versus running charge. The crank current can spike to 400amps (unmeasured for my particular car), but using 300Amps for 3 seconds we get 900 amp seconds. Higher on a cold engine than a warm one.Assuming, the charge current of the running engine is 4 amps. 900 amp seconds divided by 4 amps equals 225 seconds. (COBOL version)Add in some inefficiencies and call it 5 minutes.Assuming your battery is low and the charge phase will be "bulk" as soon as the engine is started. 1 start requires 5 minutes of running to charge it. A 10 minute drive to the shop to try and charge the battery and a 5 minute drive back. Gives use 15 minutes of charge and 10 minutes of draw. 5 minutes charge is only 300 amp seconds a third of a start.So over each week the start, stop, start, stop trip to the shop did very little to charge the battery and the slow continious draw of less than 0.5W drained the battery to where it could no longer crank a cold engine.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 05:55:10 pm
content: BTW, attached is an image of the universal charger I ordered, and its from a company named Bonai, but it appears there's also an older (?) maybe rebranded version by EBL. I checked youtube for reviews and I only found a couple for either of those, neither of which has any detail.I'm kinda surprised nobody here has mentioned it and it doesn't appear to be too popular at least in youtube terms. Though as I said, Amazon shows over 900 positive ratings between 4-5 stars.Seems to me that having the ability to natively charge and discharge AAA, AA, C, D, and 9V batteries is somewhat unique (and very useful, IMO) based on what I've seen.Anyone know anything about these? Seems certain that spec-wise they're about what you'd expect for many Chinese rebranded, low end devices, and I'm sure the spec monkeys would immediately balk at them (y'know, off by 0.354 femto amps at 305 degrees C), but I'm expecting for most users they're probably fairly useful.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 07:36:33 pm
content: Does it have proper charge termination or just a dumb timer?(The latter might still be better than some very old chargers whereyouwere the only timer)

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 07:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: magic on April 08, 2020, 07:36:33 pmWell, if I translated correctly...Sounds like there are charge status indicator LCD's for each of the 4 batteries, plus an auto shutoff that goes into trickle charge when each is fully charged. And some sort of over-charge protection. As well as overtemperature (60C+), overvoltage, and overcurrent protection.Of course the devil is in the details...

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 09:06:54 pm
content: That charger should be worth a try, but be cautious placing too much trust in reviews on Amazon. Not only are many "fabricated", but there will be some (many) that are not even for the exact item in the listing.Also keep in mind what I said about NiMH 9-volts. If you have a high drain device you won't be happy with their low capacity.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 09:09:42 pm
content: The charger I have is a LaCrosse BC-900, I bought it probably 10 years ago so I'm not sure if this is still the best option but I've been happy with it.Eneloop cells are excellent, I also have some Fujitsu and some of the Japan-made Amazon branded ones, I haven't had any trouble with any of them.There aren't any 9V Eneloop as far as I know but I have a bunch of EBL ones that have been good.Avoid cheap junk, there are a LOT of low cost random Chinese batteries out there that don't perform as advertised.

author: PeteH
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 10:20:10 pm
content: Just imagine having a device where the batteries are non removable... Oh wait a sec

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 11:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: PeteH on April 08, 2020, 10:20:10 pm

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 05:03:44 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on April 07, 2020, 01:08:38 pmThey do make rechargeable LiIon smaller than 18650 but larger than AAA: the AA size 14500 Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries.Too bad no one makes a AA size "pass through case" - like the AAA to AA adapter, but instead of having an AAA holder, it just connect through. With that, for situation where 2xAA NiMH is used in series, one can use a real 14500 LiIon with a "pass through case". The voltage is a bit higher, but good for things that can take it. I replaced the 2x D Cell with a single 18650 for my emergency radio. I love it - it can take the extra volt and the radio is much louder.Quote from: james_s on April 08, 2020, 09:09:42 pmTheChinese made TEnergy Centura (LSD)is not a bad replacement for Eneloop's. A lot cheaper but performs very well. They came out just around when Eneloop switched from 1st Gen to 2nd Gen. Interestingly, the AA sized Centura was the first to hit the market and it had specs almost exactly like Eneloop 1st Gen and performs accordingly.I was an Eneloop-only user until I was "forced" into Centura. Eneloop's are AA sized only. I needed 9V for my DMM, so I ventured into Centura-land. I like it so much I started using their AA's and AAA's as well. I saved my Eneloop as critical or emergency only. Centura AA, AAA, 9V are my "regular" battery.Good thing about Centura's 9V is 7-cells instead of the typical 6-cells, so it has a nominal voltage of 8.4v whereas 6 cell "9v battery" ones (7.2v) are no where near 9v.Except for the 9V Centura, I too use a LaCross (model BC-700) NiMH recharger for my NiMH. I use Opus (model BC-3400) which does LiIon and NiMH. Interesting: apart from the size difference (for the larger 18650), theLaCross and Opus LCD display, buttons, and software look and work exactly the samewith just some very very minor differences. I think they probably OEM from the same guy - and I think they are good chargers. I depend on them, both of them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 05:07:09 am
content: I had several kinds of Tenergy cells early on and they were all junk, not one of them lived up to the capacity claims, they didn't hold a charge nearly as long in storage and most of the ones I had have since failed. They may well have improved greatly since then but once bitten twice shy.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 05:10:27 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 09, 2020, 05:07:09 amThey must have improved. My Centura cells have been excellent -may be there are fake T-Energy cells out there too???I should run some random tests to see if quality changed - between when I formed my opinion vs my latest Centura purchases.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 05:16:44 am
content: Well it was probably 8 years ago when I last bought some, it's entirely possible that they've gotten good, and yes it's also possible that there are fakes floating around.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 04:34:33 am
content: Whenever I purchase the AA/AAA, I regularly tested every cell using the charge-test function on the LaCross BC700 before first use. Of the >dozens of 4 pack cells (AA/AAA combined), All of them meet their posted capacity with one exception. One AAA missed by a very small margin (790 instead of 800mAH). I recall that particular one since that was the first miss for my Centuras. After using the "refresh" with the LaCross, it came back to above 800mAH, 807mAH if memory serves. With 9V, I don't have the convenience of a charger like BC700 and have to use DMM logger. I do it on some but not every new cells.The first time I purchased my 9V Centura, I tested the L of the LSD and see how well it held charge. When I first purchased Centura AA/AAA, I also tested the L in the LSD - not every cell but randomly selected a pack from the shipment. I compared the voltage and capacity (1,3, and 6) months later and even at 6 months, they were near nominal. I don't have my notes anymore, but my recollection was the AA Centura was holding voltage as well as my (Gen1) AA Eneloops.The last round of test of new purchase was Feb 2016 (I wrote that on the package wrapper), so it was a while ago. Things do change. Even the same brand can-food I got now is not the same as the same darn thing 5 years ago.I should redo the test after I get my work bench cleaned up.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2020, 11:36:14 pm
content: Okay, one more reason I hate batteries...I've got a real nice 10,000 mAh, 5V, Li-ION battery bank that was relatively cheap ($25?). Two USB ports for devices, and one mini-USB for charging.I don't use it very often, so I'm thinking maybe I can use it on my bench for whatever if I need a quick 5V. So I find a spare USB cable, snip the end, and pull out the + and - wires, do that solder and heat shrink thing and I'm good to go. Cool.So I plug the wires into my meter and it reads 2.4 volts. WTF? So I charge it, and it turns out it's almost fully charged.WTF?So I'm scratching my head and accidentally press a tiny white button on the side, and BAM !!! my meter reads 5.1 volts.Hell, how am I supposed to know there's an ON/OFF switch?The battery should have told me "Hey, idiot, turn me on first!! Geesh..."That's why I hate batteries.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 06:25:07 am
content: Pro tip: make free energy by connecting the charging port to the output.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 01:31:34 pm
content: Quote from: engrguy42 on April 10, 2020, 11:36:14 pmUh huh. Maybe RTFM? If there isn't any, maybe buy stuff which comes with a manual? I think anything certified (for real) sold in the US or in Europe (and many other parts of the world) should come with a manual. If it doesn't, it's probably not certified. Using non-certified batteries (especially the larger capacities) is not the wisest thing to do.Anyway, do as magic said.

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 02:01:41 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 11, 2020, 01:31:34 pmUmm...are you familiar with the concept of "just joking around"?Lighten up dude.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 08:19:47 pm
content: Hi Engrguy42,Yes I agree with you. Many here have sorted out their “world” of batteries. The problem is that how is the person new to battery worlding supposed to know which re-chargeable is quality and which isn’t. Also, how is anybody supposed to know which charger is going to keep overcharging batteries, and wear them out, and which charger is going to charge them up just nice….there’s no way of knowing in many casesAnd the biggest point of all……..most people who use batteries do not have electronics knowledge…….due to this…they are falling for cheap rubbish batteries and throwing out mega-tons of rubbish re-chargeable batts all the time….ditto chargers……mega tons of them, going on the scrap heap all the time……and what if your boss won’t invest in a decent charger and just tells you to use his cheapo batts/charger…your stuck with your diff probe going wonky all the time….at one place, I used to have to buy 4 AA’s every month just so I could use the diff probe…they wouldn’t buy decent rechargeables/chargers.Our thermal camera got through 4 AA batteries every day!!!....so I disassembled it and soldered a 9V wall wart to it so I could power it off the mains……must admit though,,,it was hell to get inside it…..and there was a booby trap involving a tiny ribbon cable which nearly gets ripped off when you separate the enclosure halves…luckily I just saw it at the last minute and stopped disassembling….and worked around it…but I very nearly ruined the thermal cam….it was a “Dong Guan Xintai instrument company HT-04”….great value for money, but no mains adapter and needs one.*****************_____________________________***********************_______________________***********************____________________There should also be a proper [insert your country here] owned Battery company. One which makes chargers and rechargeable batteries. This is so that people are not constantly buying poor quality rechargeable batteries and having to throw them away prematurely. Also, many battery chargers on the market overcharge batteries leading to the battery’s early wear out..and again needing premature battery disposal. There is no way for a shopper to know if many chargers on the market (particularly the cheap ones) will overcharge a battery or not. A charger should preferably stop charging a battery when its fully charged and just put it on trickle charge thereafter…but many chargers just keep overcharging batteries for too long and ruin them (wear them out prematurely). This all leads to lots of environmental damaging waste and in the end, more expense for the shopper.Also, if a device is battery operated, it should preferably have a connector so that it can be powered from a mains adapter instead. This is more efficient than batteries. This is because batteries only use a rather small percentage of the energy used to charge them….and batteries on trickle charge are using up energy whilst being maintained on endless trickle charge. Also, when you take into account all the energy involved in battery manufacture, then batteries really are an inefficient way to power things.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 09:02:42 pm
content: Quote from: treez on April 11, 2020, 08:19:47 pmMy parents might be an example of thatI found a bunch of NiMHs in their electronic waste bin which were quite fine except for highish ESR which prevented their fancy "15 minute" charger from working. I wonder if it was the 8A charging current which may have also caused that ESR in the first place?But that's still nothing. What I hate most is equipment which runs on series connected packs and doesn't cut off or even signal when they enter cell reversal. This and all the nonsense about memory effect on the Internet and you have people damage those packs by running them down to absolute zero.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: treez on April 11, 2020, 08:19:47 pmBullshit. Batteries are currently most effective/compact way to store electrical energy.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on April 11, 2020, 10:05:10 pmFuel cells do even better, albeit at a much higher cost...

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on April 11, 2020, 10:07:12 pmThere is no such thing as more effective but higher cost. Take some time to process it...

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:20:53 pm
content: I use rechargeables a lot for all sorts of things. I have a couple of old Conrad 2020 chargers. One since 2006 and other in 2012 and they still work except the first needed a new fan.I had for about 6 years a collection of 2500mah Energizers but they discharged over a couple of weeks, then I had the Ansmann 2850mah in 2012 which were a little better with holding charge and now I am using Eneloops 1900 and so I don't need to charge them as much.https://www.conrad.com/p/voltcraft-charge-manager-charge-manager-cm2020-10-slot-professional-universal-battery-charger-nicd-nimh-202020For my lithium batteries I brought a SkyRC MC3000 which can also charge NiMH batteries but I find they get hot at a similar rate to the CM2020'S or maybe there is something I didn't set right.I was looking around and found a teardown:https://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20SkyRC%20MC3000%20UK.htmlSo far I have had no problems with it charging the 18650 cells and I didn't buy the cheapest.I have been using them in a QD188-ALT powerbank for many years now to occasionally power up lot current 12v appliances and no problems so far.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:23:44 pm
content: Everything you need to know, with charts and price comparisons...

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:32:23 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on April 11, 2020, 10:20:53 pmUnless you buy fake/noname/*fire cells - you are fine. Especially when buy from trustworthy sellers. Main rule of rechargeable cells - buy 1) proven batteries 2) from reliable sources.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 11:29:15 pm
content: I did look around for some genuine Sanyo cells and I couldn't find the one I wanted.I needed 8 and I found a seller who has been trading for some time and that was in early 2017.They are NCR18650DB. After last christmas the powerbank went flat when I using it and noticed the batteries have become unbalanced. Two of them measured 2.8v and rest were over 3v. I labelled them up and cycled them to see how much capacity left and I noticed the 2.8v ones were 200mah shorter than the rest but when I first got them they did charge over 3200mah or so.Edit:I think I put them in a different order than before they were chargedThe 2.8v ones were in series where the they're labelled 4A/4B now in the picture.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 09:25:06 am
content: QuoteOK thanks...true, but it wasnt the point..the point was it would be more efficient (overall, all things told, including battery manufacture, trickle charging etc etc) to power things with a mains acdc adapter where possible.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 07:37:53 am
content: Fellow battery hater here. Some folks love "cordless" things. I will go out of my way to find corded things. I hate how you have to worry if they are going to work and about when they are going to run out. The voltage testing. The leaking electrolyte in my damn Garmin. Ugh.I've recently dealt with multiple car batteries dying due to age and failed auto electronics. Also we've got a young child at home and they have many battery-powered toys. We buy great bricks of alkaline AA & AAA cells every other time we go to the store.I have to thankJogrifor his post in this thread. I've just ordered some rechargeable AAs and AAAs. I forgot that I've already got a nice Powerex charger and I also noticed that my new R/C-vehicle-battery charger will apparently charge any rechargeable battery chemistry. Yes, the ISDT chargers look nice.Now, I have been softening. I used to love my pneumatic impact wrench (AKA rattle gun) for removing lug nuts, but a cow-orker sold me on cordless. He went Milwaukee 12v and I went Makita 18v. My god, these are handy as hell. I use my Makita impact driver and Makita LED flashlight every single day. A charge lasts months (I bought the big-mama packs) and recharging is quick and painless. I guess I'm totally OK with the Makita 18v system but I still hate AAs and AAAs with a passion.I didn't realize that Fluke DMMs had low-battery indicators (yes,if anything had one, it would be a Fluke DMM - thanks eevblog forum!). That makes me feel better about the 9V batteries that have been in there for years (I still check them annually for leaking electrolyte).

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 11:50:04 am
content: Probably 99% of 'AAA' batteries are used in Remote controls!!Probably 99% of THOSE batteries are SHIT ones that come with the device!Probably 99% of people have SWAPPED those from other less used Remotes!!Probably 99% of people have 'AA' batteries as spares, rechargeable or not.Probably 99% of peoples Rechargeable 'AA's are flat, & can't find the Charger!

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:05:00 pm
content: Can I add to the hate!?Bought a new car battery a "sealed led acid" from Halfrauds.Was a little enthusiastic on the way home and it fell over in the boot. It dumped battery acid all over my carp fishing chair I keep in the boot.It dried out with a brown stain as I have nothing to soak it up with and bleach to neutralise would do more harm than good. Hopefully the material doesn't disintegrate.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:06:09 pm
content: Here's a new one to me. The three AA batteries on Jr's electric guitar toy were dying. When you turned up the volume it would go into digital crazy world. I'm familiar with that behavior. So, the new NiMH batteries showed up (in Seattle metro, so Amazon delivers quickly, sometimes shockingly so). I put them in the guitar toy and... nothing at all. I checked the voltage of the new batteries and they were 1.28 V. Fine for NiMH. I checked the old dying batteries and they were 1.35 V.Now, the rechargeables have flatter positive terminals, and I'm not sure if they are making contact with the slightly (~0.5mm) recessed contacts on the toy.Batteries! I curse thee!

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on April 24, 2020, 04:05:00 pmFYI, sulfuric acid does not dry out. It becomes more concentrated, hastening decomposition and corrosion of everything it touches.Soak it down with a garden hose, drain it as well as you can, and let it dry. Don't just soak it up, you will always have residue. It has to be washed out. Acid decomposes bleach to chlorine gas, do not use.After the acid is washed out, bleach can be used to clean fabrics, but more likely any dyes on them have been decomposed (if there's any fabric left as such), leaving a patchy appearance. If there is staining due to decomposition products (assorted tarry organic compounds), it may eventually wash out with solvents, detergents or bleach. Corrosion products (rust) can be removed with CLR like products. Again, rinse or wash thoroughly.This goes for the boot as well as the chair.Tim

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 04:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: duckduck on April 24, 2020, 04:06:09 pmDon't blame batteries when your device is crap. AA battery at 1.35V have more than half of remaining capacity. It can be considered empty at voltage below 0.8V.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 05:40:31 pm
content: I have a love/hate relationship with batteries. A few comments on the related threadhere.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 06:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on April 24, 2020, 04:26:09 pmI agree wholeheartedly. That toy is not what I would would consider "a well-designed electronic device". Perhaps I should expand the scope of this thread to "antipathy towards failure modes unique to batteries and poorly-designed battery-powered devices".Quote from: paulca on April 24, 2020, 04:05:00 pmQuote from: T3sl4co1l on April 24, 2020, 04:23:41 pmT3sl4co1lmakes good points. Also, you can mix sodium bicarbonate (we call it "baking soda" in the US) into some water and rinse the spill with that. That will help neutralize the acid without staining or creating unhealthy fumes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2020, 06:32:02 pm
content: Batteries are complex. Using them isn't. (I certainly cannot sympathize with the OP's gripes.)What is hard is charging them optimally. That's what I've been working on (among other things) for a few weeks. NiMH may not catch fire if mishandled, but actually charging themproperlyis nontrivial. (Li-Ion/LiPo charging is actually simplerin principle, but they're unforgiving of even small mistakes.) Note that the manufacturers no longer recommend trickle charging, or even just slow charge rates, as they make detecting the ΔV too small to detect (if present at all).Quote from: deadlylover on April 07, 2020, 01:25:57 pmFYI, IKEA no longer sells the brown, made in China LADDA. They now only have the white, made in Japan eneloop-pro-in-disguise ones!Quote from: bingo600 on April 07, 2020, 05:12:14 pm1500 cycles was for the brown, made in China LADDA, which IMHO probably weren't Eneloops in disguise. They're discontinued now anyway. The white, made in Japan LADDA are 500 cycles, like Eneloop Pro, with exactly the same mAh ratings.

author: bluey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2020, 08:39:10 pm
content: I hate batteries too.I feel much better having discovered eneloops and better chargers. I am using the temperature sensing Panasonic one that came in the Eneloop kit (ex USA B&H). But some gadgets really don't like the low voltage of Eneloops, especially the Panasonic AC remote control whose LCD is always dim. Since I can't get Eneloop in a 9V size, I have Toshiba 8.4V NiMH (ex Japan). They seem to work fine and aren't a lot more expensive than disposable alkaline.Battery powered computer mice are a waste of effort - just use a cord because the mouse always works.Battery powered drills for home use - the cost of the dead battery packs over the years is way more than the cost of the drill. Just say no and plug it in.Car batteries are easy. They die after 3-8 years. Replace it when it doesn't behave. Nothing you can do will change that, despite what the clever Ctek charger thinks. Bunnings is good for Exide if you have a few days up your sleeve for special order.Computer internal clock backup batteries are a pain, because nothing will tell you that it's not working and if it's in a laptop, good luck.Lithium polymer batteries are stupid because they all swell up and die eventually and there's no way to tell how good the one you are getting will be.Alkaline batteries are stupid because they all leak and will kill whatever you leave them in.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 05:21:10 am
content: I don't find it too annoying...I have a pack of amazonbasic nimh AA and AAA.I've also got some rechargeable lr2032 My 9v in multi-meters seems to last forever. And I've been modifying whatever I can, to use 18650 instead of any other battery. Also, I've been slowly replacing my wall clocks with PoE DIY clocks (3 out of 11 left). You just need time to convert everything that you can to a system that's most convenient.Also, I suggest everyone to make their own gadgets whenever possible...I have a flashlight which is chargeable via usb and has cree 3w ledMy TV,AC remote is an old Samsung S4 (no mod needed, it has an IR emitter). I've already mentioned clocks. For game controllers, I don't know much, I'm on pc...but my wireless mouse is used 10 hours a day and I recharge it's AA every 3 months

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 05:30:58 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on April 07, 2020, 01:08:38 pmYou know, if you have a lathe, you can actually get an E-cigarette battery that fits alongside additional circuitry in a package as small as AAA.Also, Chinese make lithium battery that act like AAA but are chargeable via usbalso, since this is an EE fourm, you can always look on other threads and learn how to convert wiimote to usb rechargeable,internal but swappable lipoly based controllerQuote from: duckduck on April 24, 2020, 07:37:53 amNo cordless drill can compete with my 900W dewalt drill. Similarly, Corded tools often are more durable and powerful than cordless ones. If you don't have outlet access everywhere you stand, either you're limited by law, or your house design was bad. (I have so many outlets, that if the government were to know of it, they'll start charging me industrial rates, despite the fact that I consume the least in my locality)Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 24, 2020, 11:50:04 amThat's why, switch to using phone with Ir blasting capability, Like an samsung s4, be it 24x7 offline for security and single purpose only, since it's too old to do anything else.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 04:54:23 pm
content: Quote from: Raj on April 28, 2020, 05:30:58 amOn planet earth we use drills outside our house as well

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 05:17:39 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on April 28, 2020, 04:54:23 pmI think cordless tools are work especially grinders for hot work and working around welding type stuff (so many burrs and filings and dust and crap the extension cords are a hazard). Downside you need a few expensive dewalt 60V batteries to do a reasonable amount of work.. or just take breaks since its extremely nasty workI kind of see how many pounds of freaking material the people that complain about battery tools in non production jobs have to grind! These people must be repairing earth movers and fixing battle ships!I think some people still have PTSD from brushed motors + nicadBrushless lithium tools are GREAT. And you learn to work efficiently (hold grinder correctly, check to see if the disks are in good shape). with a cord you can sit there all day doing nothing on a flat wheel. If you need a really strong drill chances are its not the right tool for the job (i.e. use a magnetic drill).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 07:16:13 pm
content: 20 years ago my father gave me a corded Makita impact drill, which was excellent for the masonry work that I needed back in my home country (where houses are built the way they should). Fast forward many years later (and living in the US), he gave me a Hitachi cordless impact drill, which is quite excellent for various jobs, especially in the tight spaces in the attic. However, in the rare occasions I need it to actually go through a masonry wall, it loses to the Makita by a large margin.Anecdoctal? Yes, but that shows me that both have their place.(BTW, the Hitachi came with a pair of batteries - a life saver!)

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 08:23:55 pm
content: Today better pair is decent brushless impact drill for "everyday jobs" and corded SDS+ hammer drill - when you occasionally have to "go through" masonry/concrete/brisks. There are excellent cordless hammer drills as well like Bosch GBH36VF-LI, but price is prohibitive for home users.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 08:59:43 pm
content: Back this last December, my family and my brother's family were enjoying a dinner together, an evening a few days before Christmas.Suddenly some of the lights became very bright, while others dimmed considerably. Because the mains service here is 120v-neutral-120v, I immediately recognized it as a phase unbalance.I instructed to turn off all the lights and unplug all electrical devices.In the dark, with the assistance ofbattery poweredtorches, my bother and I went to the electrical box. With the help of abattery poweredDMM, we quickly determined that the neutral wire had an intermittent connection with the bus bar.The set screw holding the wire was perhaps dirty or corroded and we could not loosen it, no matter how hard we tried. But my brother remembered that an acquaintance nearby was a contractor and had many power tools. So with hisbattery poweredmobile phone gave him a call to see if he was available.He was, thus we hoped to my car, which has abattery poweredstarter, drove there, and borrowed a heavy-dutybattery poweredBosch screwdriver.Drove back to my brother's home, and with the Bosch screwdriver we were able to remove the stubborn set screw, clean it up and tighten it again.A few moments we were back enjoying our dinner.So I agree with the thread starter: Batteries are useless.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 11:19:08 pm
content: Anybody got a spare time machine to nip back to the mid 1980's when tandys (radio shack) were selling a battery charger,not that uncommon,until you realised it charged disposable batteries,i dont think it lasted long as they realised it was costing them money. A few years later one of the electronics mags published a circuit for a similar thing,from memory it used AC pulses to reverse the chemical action,often wonder whether it worked? An ancient trick i remember as a kid was putting used batteries in a warm oven to get a bit more out of them .

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 12:15:31 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on April 28, 2020, 08:59:43 pmHow did "annoying and stupid" (the very first line of the very first post of the thread) get translated into "useless"?I'm wondering if people actually read posts and threads. Could it be that they just scan a few words here and there and make up their minds about what point is being made?Nah, that can't be true can it?BTW, the other day I received the universal charger ($20) I was talking about, as well as some rechargeable AAA, AA, C, and 9V batteries, and it seems like a BIG help in counteracting some of my hatred of batteries. It charges all of them. Although I still don't have nearly enough batteries on hand to replace the 40-some batteries in all my devices. And I just tossed two AAA's because my multimeter batteries died and my replacements were dead too. But who the hell knows the status of your non-rechargeables?I hate 'em.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 12:20:51 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on April 28, 2020, 11:19:08 pmthere were actually rechargable alkaline batteries made at one pointhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 12:31:23 am
content: Yeah, but the OP hates them.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 04:38:47 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on April 28, 2020, 05:17:39 pmQuote from: ogden on April 28, 2020, 04:54:23 pmStill...a contractor grade chord extension is cheaper than a battery. I just hate buying cordless tools, except screwdrivers, since they are the weakest in their category.Cordless tools are like, someone uses them, forget to charge them, and a while later you try to use them in an emergency and you can't.Quote from: schmitt trigger on April 28, 2020, 08:59:43 pmNot completely useless...But the choice for having so many battery types is pretty awful...I'd rather have everything except the car and phone in that case, powered by 18650, and that to replaceable as easy as doing and undoing a door with a screwdriverHad batteries been useless, they wouldn't have existed

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 05:15:40 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on April 28, 2020, 08:59:43 pmYou were lucky all those batteries were not dead I guess

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 06:06:47 am
content: I've just come back from another 'AA' meeting and this is how my speech went:"I hate batteries a bit less latelyOnly because I now buy cheapies and knockoffs which are same or better quality than the decadent brand namesBrand names that blow their quality control and R+D budgets on keeping the advert Enerjizzer/DurexCell Bunnies and stunt doubles goingwith ample supply of vegan food, booze, coke, and 60 inch TVs to toss out hotel windowsThe cheapies and knockoffs leak less or same, so hey, why not pocket the differenceand get some money back as compensation for past battery chewed gearfwiw I remove batteries in most cases and have a cheap appropriate screwdriver with a set of batteries with each meter that cops occasional or specialisticized useso it's less a hassle finding a screwdriver tool when you need it"Anyway that's how my mild curry Hate Speech on batteries went at 'AA'

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 11:07:10 am
content: Here's the REAL "AA" meeting speech for this group:"Okay, I admit it....I'm a battery fanboy. They're fun. Hours of endless research and playing. I love 'em. And if anyone says otherwise, well, it hurts my feelings. Cuz I like 'em. So nobody can disagree with me. It hurts my ego. So if anyone says anything bad about batteries, be prepared to incur theWrath of the Bruised Egos".Actually, you could replace "batteries" in that speech with anything that people have decided they like.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 11:34:50 am
content: LOL, you did not include the small few that exercise'Report to moderator'tendencies when the Bruised Egos (great band name!)want immediate 'Satisfaction' but without swords, pistols or straight shooter talk

author: engrguy42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 11:39:48 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on April 29, 2020, 11:34:50 amYeah, nothing new. The "I'm telling Mom !!" tendency we all grew up with as kids. Usually when they run out of irrelevant pseudo facts to try to prove they're right, and then run out of stuff to discredit you with (spelling mistakes, etc.), and finally run out of names to call you.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 01:15:48 pm
content: LOL... confinement really does seem to damage our brains!

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 04:59:23 pm
content: Did anyone actually noticed that my post wasn't half serious?And indeed. I did stretch the words somewhat from "Hate" to "Useless". And read completely your posts.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 06:43:37 pm
content: Quote from: Raj on April 29, 2020, 04:38:47 amThis is what I say in my post which you obviously decided to ignore:Quote from: ogden on April 28, 2020, 08:23:55 pmIn short: it depends.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 04:56:33 am
content: Quote from: ogden on April 29, 2020, 06:43:37 pmwoops...after reading the word "mother earth" I thought of farms and all,forgetting that jungles and deserts exist without power for miles. :pWhat about taking along a honda mini generator?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 05:05:44 am
content: Quote from: Raj on April 29, 2020, 04:38:47 amBut, if you are meticulous, you are better prepared in a emergency with battery powered tools because you can work without power. What tools are required in a emergency I don't know, the best I could think of is fortifying a house before a hurricane with a battery saw (say a fuel milwakee) and drill (like if you needed to use a hammer drill to board up windows on masonry in a hurry)The only tool emergency I ever had was a mechanism in a lock broke, at night, and i could not close the front door, during a power outage, and I got paranoid, so I brazed it longer together with a oxy torch, reassembled and went to sleep. (the bit that the rotation of the lock rotates to engage the latch).By broke I mean literarly it was a new lock and the thing was cut wrong so I assume the thermal contraction of the door made it so the damn thing cannot engage with the lock! On a abloy I installed wrong. It was faster then looking for a new one or fabricating the part and it was cold, raining, late and I was pissed off. Otherwise I would have probably had to look for wood to brace the door with. Or spent 2 hours filing something with a head lamp. And I lost the spring clip, so I had to wire tie the thing down lolI was glad to do it because that night just felt real creepy. It must have been engaging by like 0.001 inches or less! I never saw a door work with that kind of accidental interference fit before! (I must have cut it by eye with a dremel or hack saw or something. I don't renember how did it, but I thought I did a better job LOL.) Now I learned to use calipers when doing anything with locks.The door did not work once (around fall-winter transition) and I thought nothing of it, because it started to work (very busy, I just thought the abloy was bad somehow and I would need to replace it).. then it totally failed and it was spinning. If there was power I would have put a heater against the door to see if it was actually thermals.. I think i brazed the head of a cut off nail on the tip of the thing to extend it. Of course the generator fucked up too! Thank god for good old gas.Now one of those oxy/mapp gas micro torches is a great emergency tool if you can't afford a real set because you can do some weird stuff so long you get silver braze rod and some files to go with it (or just keep it around anyway since you are liable to run out of oxy/acetylene doing regular welding things). Use that with a few fire bricks because its very weak (they greatly will extend the power). If you keep a battery powered metal saw and some metal around you can jury rig some useful stuff.