3D Printer - what to avoid, what to buy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 06:12:02 pm
content: I have been thinking of buying a 3D printer. Possible uses would include:- to make replacement broken plastic parts- to make small cases for projects- crafts, make replacement toy parts etcIt would appear that prices have come down to a point where they seem to be very affordable even on a hobbyist budget. I have done some research but I must confess that I still have relatively little idea of what to look out for and what to avoid. Some come as cheap as £49.99 from Argos. There are plenty for around £80-£90 on eBay and elsewhere. Then there are those selling at £180 to £300, and there are those beyond which I would consider for myself unaffordable.It seems that at least some members on here have a 3D printer, so I wanted to ask for advice on what to get, and particularly what to avoid.I noticed is that 3D printers seem to come in two distinct form factors: the type that have a rigid cuboid frame into which the printer is built, and those (mainly the cheap sub-£100 ones) that seem to be 'open' with the head mounted on an overhead rack supported by mounting pillars on either side of some kind of base. I expect that the former are much more rigid, but some of the cheaper ones look reasonably rugged, at least on the pictures. Is there a significant difference in 'print' quality and accuracy between these two types?I would obviously want to avoid something so flimsy that is falls apart in no time and is so imprecise that it is impossible or difficult to print anything with a reasonable degree of accuracy. I suspect many on eBay might fall into such a category. However, neither do I want to pay more than necessary in order to get something useful and within reason for a hobbyist. I have a budget in mind of £250. Is this reasonable enough to get me a solid 3D printer? Also, how much space is required for them. On the photographs they seem to look somewhere in size between a laser printer and an office photocopy machine. With white or plain backgrounds with nothing to give a size of scale, it is really difficult to tell.For those that purchased one, did you consider it a worthwhile investment?Also, does design software come with the printer or does it have to be purchased separately? If it comes with the printer, which brands have decent software with them?I'm told that Dremel is one of the better ones, but what about CTC and some of the eBay stuff? Any good or just plain rubbish?

author: kizmit99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:43:51 pm
content: I purchased one of the Anet A8 kits (available under many names from AliExpress) about 2 or 3 years ago. I was very pleased with what I got and how it worked once assembled. I paid right around $200 for it, I see they are now available for under $150, with a few upgrades included that weren't around at the time I got mine (self leveling, upgraded print heads).I had fully expected (from stuff I'd read online before purchasing it) that I was going to have to perform some upgrades on it after getting it (like replacing the controller, power supply, etc) -- It turned out that I never had to do anything like that to the printer, and it has performed extremely well from the first test print.It came as a kit and it took a few days to assemble it, but as long as you do a good job on the assembly I think these kits actually turn out to be very decent hobbyist-level machines. This one uses laser cut acrylic sheets for the structural bits of the frame - so it's certainly not an industrial strength design, but so far the acrylic has been plenty stiff and has held up. The software is all open-source and readily available.After about a year I did go ahead and build another printer from scratch (based on the HyperCube design) but that was more for the experience of doing it, than because of any deficiencies in the A8.I believe they've since introduced a newer version, very un-intuitively named the Anet A6, but the A8 is still available from a lot of sellers.You had asked about size - the A8 consumes about a 50cm cube of desk space. It is also quite an "open" design, so when you're not using it it needs be stored somewhere relatively "safe" (no way you can stack stuff on top of it, etc).Personally, I think going with a kit like this for a first 3D printer is a good way to begin.

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 08:19:46 pm
content: There seem to be two variants of the Anet A8, one with the display at the base, the other on the overhead crossbeam. There is also a CTC A8 which is identical to this second version. There are plenty of them on eBay. The idea of a kit also appeals and means I can make sure that it has been built properly. As you say, the open source software means it is readily available.For a not too dis-similar price there is also the CTC FDM Bizer Dual Extruder, although it looks to be constructed from plywood. I couldn't find an Anet A6.I will keep the Anet 8 in mind but also wait and see what others come up with.Thanks also for giving some information on the size. a 50cm cube is not as big as I thought.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 08:27:07 pm
content: Creality Ender 3 must be the most popular model atm. Good prints for cheap price.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 09:55:45 pm
content: The actual A8 always has the screen on the top frame.It is, frankly, a pile of garbage stock, and has serious problems with the firmware which mean if you have a loose heater or thermistor, it can and will start a fire.There are many kits available which are a better buy than an A8, including the Ender 3.

author: kizmit99
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 10:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on June 16, 2019, 08:19:46 pmThe one I have has the display at the top (and is made from acrylic sheet), the other one appears to (usually) be called the A8-Plus, and it looks like they've replaced the acrylic frame with one made from aluminum extrusions. It also appears they've upped the build area from 240mmx240mm to 300mmx300mm.I suspect the A8-Plus is is worth the additional cost, and if I were starting over today,I would probably go for that one myself.Edit: After taking a quick look at the Creality Ender 3, I think it's fair to say that I would probably go with that over the A8 or the "A8-Plus" today...One thing to keep in mind, if you go with a kit you will know what every part is for when you're done. Anything that isn't to your liking in the future, you will be in a better position to fix/rebuild it yourself. Although some people just want something they can take out of the box and use - which is fine too. You will spend (not insignificant) time putting a kit like this together (Usually I've seen a minimum of 5hrs thrown around, I spent about 4 times that over three or four days/evenings). But I enjoy it, so that's a check-mark in the plus column for me. I have also seen a lot of folks stating that you'll spend a lot of time "tuning" you printer to get it to "well" -- all I can say is that mine worked "well" on its first test print. I have spent significant time playing with it, but not because it "needed" it to get a good print.Edit: I stand by the above, I know a lot of people like to spew crap about these kits, but all I can say is that mine worked well, and I did not have to upgrade it to get prints that I believe are better than a lot of what I see posted... (and mine didn't start any fires)...Hope you enjoy whatever you decide to go with!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 10:20:14 pm
content: I'd be extremely wary of buying any Anet product, improved or not - they've a long and established history of doing the worst possible job, and I'd be surprised if they've learnt their lesson about thermal runaway yet.I can't even find any photos of an A8 Plus, let alone a review, which makes me even more wary. Perhaps nobody wants to go there.By the way, I don't 'spew crap' about the A8 - there's one eight inches to the right of the monitor I'm using to type this. I know them all too well. A lot of the issues seen with them are due to poor assembly, but they still have fundamental flaws, not least the misconfigured firmware.The Ender 3 has its flaws, but they're pretty well known and relatively minor, so I'd say it's a decent starting point. Biggest downside is the bowden extruder, which makes avoiding stringing much, much harder.As for software, nothing in the consumer range comes with anything special - there are numerous options available for modelling and slicing (two very distinct operations) both free and paid for. Personally I use Slic3r (well, today the PrusaSlicer fork of it) for slicing and, well, I've yet to settle on CAD tooling - the 'free' commercial options (Fusion 360, Onshape, etc) do not suit me and the actually free tools (FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, some others) are, uh, a little special.

author: martin1454
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 05:54:55 am
content: For the cheapest possible soulution:Creality Ender 3a bit better would be a Cetus 3d MK3,and if you want a serious printer, a Prusa I3 Mk3 is a dream

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 07:22:26 am
content: You must ask yourself if you want printer as a tool or a project.From all the info I gathered on Reddit and other places the Anet and Creality are nice projects. You'll be investing significant hours to get it to work properly after assembly.Meanwhile you can also buy a Prusa i3 Mk3s. Yes, I know its €800. But it is, apart from the ~10 hours build process if you get a kit, a tool. The first print it makes will be a decent print*, if you followed the instructions and did not assemble it with a hammer.It automatically corrects skew in the frame, and hasno adjustable partsthat need regular manual calibration.The only failed prints I had on my i3 mk3s were because of the bad design or bad slicing choices. Not printer hardware.And you're buying a product that is co-developed** and supported in Europe, not China.Including decent slicer software, PrusaSlicer, which got an UI overhaul last month.None of the <1000$ printers are units you should leave alone. They are all fire hazards.*Only light moire effect. Presliced gcode by prusa.**FOSS/OSHW.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 07:40:39 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 17, 2019, 07:22:26 amI came here to say the same. The Prusa is undeniably one of the best printers of this type out there and while not cheap, it's not stupidly expensive like a lot of enterprise printers are. If you want to mess about, buy a cheap printer. If you want to print, buy a good printer.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 10:06:17 am
content: I'm using a Wanhao D6 (Also sold by Monoprice, the cube shaped one) which is really good, and even better now I've modded almost the entire thing in some way.My advice would be to pick a machine that is popular so there is good community and aftermarket support, and buy as good a printer as you can afford. You really do get what you pay for....

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 11:09:58 am
content: Well there seems to be no shortage of Creality Ender products on eBay and even a handful of Anet 8 Plus, the latter being almost twice as expensive as the original Anet 8. The Creality Ender 3 seems to sit in between price-wise. I hadn't appreciated the difference between FDM, SLA and DLP. It sounds like SLA will be out of my budget, but I will research FDM and SLA.As for whether I want a 3D printer as a project or as a tool, I would say primarily as a tool. Even if it comes as a kit and therefore becomes a project, then I don't mind spending time building it, but the final result must be a practical useable tool. In that case, it can be both a project and a tool. However, I wouldn't consider buying just for the sake of building a project. On the other hand, if it came fully assembled and I could be reasonably confident that the build quality is good and the price was one that I could afford, then that would be fine as well. I hadn't really considered the possibility that some might come supplied as kits before posting my questions.The point about after-market support is also a good one. One doesn't want to end up stuck and without support if something goes wrong and that is something I can research once I have narrowed down the list a little. Having fug a bit further into that Dremel 3D20, it seem that it has a number of limitations, including it will take PLA only (no heated bed), can only take more expensive Dremel filament (quarter spool size, Dremel specific filament size). A review states that "advanced users will feel boxed-in with this 3D printer" so although the used price might look like a bargain, it is beginning to look a lot less so.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 12:25:28 pm
content: I believe in this price bracket they almost all come as kit. Either because it's cheap, or to circumvent some regulations.Or they are not tools but toys.Anyway, the prusa mk3s assembled is €1000, but assembling provides you with some insight in how they work, and how you could repair it yourself.A 3D printer of similar simplicity as a laserjet printer is also possible, but you need to add a 0 to your budget.For exampleSindoh. The Signal Path has a video about this one.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 02:17:04 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 17, 2019, 12:25:28 pmBased On Shahriar's review I bought one of these. You just unpack it, plug it in, load the cartridge, run the bed-levelling routine and start printing. It just prints, using the built-in settings & the supplied slicing software, and the prints come out fine. I have spent more time getting to grips with FreeCad.I am short of time but reasonably OK for cash, so this suited me best. YMMV...

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 04:47:22 pm
content: Of my 3, 3d printers, the one that has all the same quality and ability as the others, but has 300 mm X 300mm X 400mm working platform. This is the Creality CR-10, not sure if you can buy it assembled, but bought mine as kit and assembled myself. It is very accurate (as the smaller ones, my 2 A8s) and can do a large variety of materials. This has mostly to do with how high a temp that your bed can do, PLA does not require a heated bed. Most printers require a windbreak for some materials, such as ABS, but can easily be made with cardboard panels. Also, all of these printers can easily be modified, if desired. I purchased mine several years ago, $89 each for 2 A8s, and $160 for CR10. I have not been disappointed in any of them.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 06:00:30 pm
content: I will repeat what a couple others have already said. Avoid the Anet A8s. It should not be hard to do a little research and find multiple accounts from unfortunate owners where they have quite literally caught on fire. I have seen accounts with actual houses burned down because of that printer. You should straight up ignore anyone trying to tell you they are safe because nothing bad has happened to them yet! They only become safer after replacing multiple components on the circuit board. At least join their facebook group so you are better educated and know what to replace before even considering one. Personally, no amount of cost savings would be worth gambling with my home and loved ones lives. 3d printing is slow...it will inevitably be running while you are asleep or not there at all. You just can't be there at all times to keep an eye on it.While it may not be what you want to hear, I would personally save up to increase your budget. In most cases you do get what you pay for.The Creality CR-10 is popular and has a large community. Although, the company violates open source software licensing agreements. If the open source community is important to you, then that is something you should consider before you choose to support them by buying their products.I personally have an original Prusa Mk3 built from a kit. For the most part I could recommend it. Although it really depends on how much time you want to invest. 3d printing on most open systems is a significant time investment. It can take you a while to get the printer dialed in to the point where you are happy with your prints. Deciding to change a nozzle, or buying a different type of filament can mean going back through another time consuming calibration process. It is honestly far from a load a model, click print, and your done type of experience. You can certainly reach a point of decent repeatability, but that usually comes after you have put in the time to make multiple profiles that dial in your calibration for all the different filaments you use.I'm not trying to discourage getting into 3d printing, but just want you to make sure you know what your getting into. You honestly do need to consider how valuable your time is to you, because it is a time sink. The more moderately expensive closed model type systems like Dremel, Sindoh try to make a more click and go type experience by restricting the filament you can use with the device. For some, the time savings this brings may be worth it. Prusa is also trying to go in this direction with offering their own manufactured filaments, and their new website where people share printing profiles for specific models.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 06:43:16 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on June 17, 2019, 06:00:30 pmThe board is not really the issue. At least not any of the remotely recent examples.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 06:44:48 pm
content: As someone that just recently got into 3D printing, I would agree with most everything said*. I purchased an Ender 3 Pro a while back and have had a lot of fun printing with it. I'm using Cura 4.0 (free) and designing things using Tinkercad (free) and Microsoft's 3D Builder app (free). I watched a lot of how-to videos on YouTube and played around with the softwares while I waited for my machine to arrive from Creality direct (only a few days). YouTube's CHEP has a lot of great tutorial videos and suggestions for Cura settings and the Ender 3. When the printer arrived, I assembled it in a couple hours taking my time. I loaded a calibration cube and it printed perfectly. Swapped the filament to Hatchbox blue loaded another fairly simple model I had been playing around with and it printed perfectly as well. As I have been designing my own parts and getting more creative, I've run into some challenges (like stringing and bridging) that I've been able to work through and nearly eliminate altogether. I've almost exclusively used Cura, but had been experimenting with Slic3rPE because it seems Cura's travels while printing aren't as optimized as "I" think they should be. Early results were tons of stringing but parts of a print look better and using the same speeds for travels, etc, finished faster. I've been recently playing around with PrusaSlicer but have yet to try printing anything sliced with it yet. But Cura is still my go-to when I want to print something and know it'll turn out pretty well.*Bottom line is 3D printing is a time investment no matter what and I honestly don't see how adding a zero to your budget will allow you to just load and print without some tweaking settings in the slicer. Spend a couple hours watching YouTube videos on the brand of printer you're interested in, jot down the common tweaks others are making, and you'll get up and running really quickly. Also, check out Thingiverse.com for various models to print to dial in your slicer settings for the filament you want to use ( like a temp towerhttps://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2538377and overhang testhttps://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2806295). I keep the temp tower gcode file on the microSD card so when I load a new reel of filament, I print the temp tower first to dial in the temperature. Once you've printed a few things, you'll learn which settings need to be adjusted and it takes no time at all.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 07:32:09 pm
content: For a good general FDM machine something like an Creality Ender 3 is a good machine.Avoid anything made using acrylic for anything structural.Avoid Anet altogether as they have a history of catching fire as the company disables the firmware safety cut offs(and being made of plastic they also burn well).

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 05:05:28 am
content: To add to my previous post, if it has DRM or obscure requirements on filament, avoid it like the plague.If you can't just stick a roll of generic filament into it, you are in for a world of pain and expense. If the company decides to stop selling the (almost always expensive) filament, you have a paperweight unless you spend the time to hack it....

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 05:16:04 am
content: I got a WANHAO Duplicator I3 Plus from aliexpress and am very happy with it.But i use slic3r instead of the one that came with it.YMMVWhatever you get make sure it has auto-bed leveling.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 05:48:24 am
content: You must consider that the power supply in these things is around 250 Watt. Safe and decent ones will cost you around $75-100.If you find a printer that is $200, there is not much left for other parts. Or there is a very budget power supply in them.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 06:13:05 am
content: My first printer (last November) was from Aliexpress, from the manufacturers store.Anycubic i3 Mega200mm X 200mm X 200mm build volume.Manual levelling, but not difficult.Heated bed, so I can print ABS.Probably just over your budget.Print quality is very good for the price.In February I purchased another from the same company.Anycubic Chiron400mm X 400mm X 400mm build volume.Manual levelling, but not difficult.Heated bed.Over your budget, but much bigger build area than the i3 Mega.Print quality is very good for the price.For software I use:Fusion 360 for the CAD - free for hobbyist use.Initially I used Cura for the slicer, but found it a bit limiting, especially for supports.Simplify3D for the slicer - costs USD50 (IIRC)I am pretty impressed with the build quality and the results of the Anycubic products.Printers come almost completely pre assembled. It takes 20 minutes to be up and running.Both printers use COTS 1,75mm stock.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 07:28:25 am
content: My name is Beanflying and I have developed a 3D Printer problemI was looking at a Prusa and decided they simply are not worth the premium. I brought two Ender 3 Pro's (preferred over the stock) for less money.A Glass bed after your Magnetic one gets you started and wears out (also temperature limited) is a good thing. Out of the box to printing in very little time at all and it will just work if you build it square! Apart from some self printed upgrades they will benefit little from mechanical upgrades. One of mine has a direct drive extruder now fitted for flexibles and I have ordered a Smoothieboard to play with, both of these are for my interest and not needed for success. Drop an enclosure around the printer with a glass bed and ABS is easy too.The A8 if you want it to arrive broken or break soon after go for itMy CR-10S is great for more volume but the Enders heat up quicker and their beds are plenty big enough for 90%+ of what I do.My choice too but I have brought my three Creality printers from their own online stores and the swift technically competent responses for a couple of minor things made it worthwhile.Gearbe$t anf Bangbad are CRAP for any backup post sale so just don't.

author: WaveyDipole
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 08:23:05 am
content: Thank you for all the replies that keep coming in! There has been quite a bit of useful information and I have been doing some research. So far I have noted these points:Fire hazard:This seems to be an issue associated mainly with Anet printers. Online I found both personal accounts written by people who suffered a fire and meltdown of their printer, but I also came across opinion articles that came across as very sceptical, by inference pinning the blame on the user. It seems that users may also have unwittingly contributed to the problem with some of the self printed upgrades that were added to the unit, which then caught fire or contributed in some way to its spread. However, the key issue here seems to be a design fault that allows the hot element to come loose and fall out from the head block in the fist place. If that hadn't happened, then the reason for the fire would not have arisen in the first place.It seems that having suffered such an incident, some of the authors then went on to purchase a fire extinguisher. Is it usual for owners of 3D printers to keep a fire extinguisher handy? Another concern I now have is whether this kind of design flaw exists in other cheap printers? The Creality Ender seems to be popular judging by the replies here so I presume that they do not suffer from this issue?Power supply:Some cheap printers come with barely adequate power supplies. The risk is that given the relatively long time it take to do a print, the PSU could get excessively hot and fail. The cheaper and closer to the wire the supply, the more likely this will happen sooner rather than later. Supply wiring and connectors might also be an issue where the thinnest possible wires and cheapest connectors are used. I have noticed that eBay listings of the same printer have considerably varying prices. One of the reasons is that some offer the option of a better power supply. It seems sensible to pay and extra 20-30GBP to include a decent supply so will bear that in mind when buying.Filament types and beds:At my budget I might be able to get a printer that does both PLA and ABS, but I might need to be willing to spend a bit more. ABS requires a heated bed and ideally an enclosed space to maintain temperature. A glass bed is the next step up from the basic bed that comes with a printer. It seems one can get a silicone heating mat to upgrade an unheated bed. I guess one question I would have here is whether they have their own power supply or connect to the printer supply? Obviously if they share the printer supply, then it needs to be able to provide the required current.Open source vs closed source:I am aware of the known problem of being "locked in" to manufacturers supplies. Custom sizes to prevent generic supplies from being used, inflated prices and limited features. Sometimes this can mean a better quality result as the specifications of consumables are more tightly controlled, but some desirable features may only be found on higher end products which cost considerably more. This might be good for production environments, but not so much for a hobbyist on a budget. Open source is hackable, flexible and can use generic supplies, but software and hardware can be a bit hit-and-miss and you get what you pay for. However, there are usually after market upgrades available.I am possibly considering setting this up in the garage. That way any smoke or fumes from the filaments is not going to permeate the house. I a sure that the OTH would have something to say about that! I notice that in some accounts the author has said that they have left the printer running overnight. I know this will vary with the size of the model, what kind of timeframe should I expect for a print? I expected the possibility of one or two hours, but overnight? I would have thought it inadvisable to leave the printer unattended overnight?It is starting to look like the Creality Ender 3 might be a good beginners choice, but I am still considering my options.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 08:42:44 am
content: Along the way PETG is much easier than ABS to play with and only needs a bed at around 70C. So cooler bed temps and much less cracking issues without needing an enclosure than ABS. ABS has some benefits over PETG but not many.The meanwell supply on the Ender Pro is part of the reason to go there over the stock version.Fire - all things are possible I do have an extinguisher in my shack for other reasons they are not expensive so buy one anyway.Open source what? Generally most of the firmware is on all of them and you can play with them easily. Who cares if the length of a bit of 2020 extrusion is open sourced or not mechanicals can be measuredClosed source infrastructure/materials or custom hotends comes with $1k and generally $2k plus PNP printers like mentioned a few posts back having to hack them to take non coded supplies is BS for those that need it.

author: aix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 09:01:24 am
content: I have a Cetus 3D Mk III Extended, and have been very happy with it. It was the first and only printer I bought and so I don't have direct experience of other printers.I recently added a heated bed and an auto-levelling thingie. I'm on the fence about whether the former adds much for my use cases. The latter is definitely worthwhile though fiddly (it places a retractable strain gauge between the nozzle and the bed to mimic the manual levelling technique that relies on a sheet of paper).I print a lot of PLA, some flexible PETG derivative and a little bit of ABS.I think there's a way to get an open source brain for the Cetus, but I found Tiertime's UI to work well and so never felt I needed to replace it. I design all my models in Fusion 360 and find the design-to-print workflow to be pretty smooth.Tiertime's documentation is pretty lacking, often non-existent, more so for newly released hardware. I have used their chat support a few times and on the whole found that to be pretty good.It's a good printer but, knowing what I know now, would I buy it again? Not sure. When the original Cetus came out, it was priced very competitively. The current generation, especially after one adds all the upgrades, is not exactly cheap. If I were buying a printer today, I'd probably look at something like the current Prusa printers.(Sorry, I know this is outside the budgetary constraints but I thought I'd share anyway in case someone finds it useful.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 09:11:36 am
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on June 18, 2019, 08:23:05 amHours. More height increases time, especially with thin layer.When you start to reach halfway Z range with some decent volume, it starts going into the days.Check thesePrusa Weekly Printsto get an idea, for example the Clamp of week 5 made in PETG takes 20 hours.The slicer can give a time estimate. This might not be accurate to the minute.Oh, and the fire hazard is not only in the connectors. The printer can grab the object, and become "the blob". Who knows what can happen. They are not smart enough to detect this yet. The all dumb things running gcode. Though some offer some collision or temperature control guards.

author: aix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 09:22:31 am
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on June 18, 2019, 08:23:05 amI am sure not everyone would agree, but I don't find the smell of PLA at all objectionable. Neither does my other half. ABS is a completely different matter and is one of the reasons I don't use it very much.Quote from: WaveyDipole on June 18, 2019, 08:23:05 amAs you say, print duration is a function of the model size. It is also a function of two other things that you can control: layer thickness and print speed. Oversimplifying slightly, it's a tradeoff between quality and speed.I almost never find myself needing to print anything that takes longer than a couple of hours. I never do, but I'd be pretty comfortable leaving the Cetus printing overnight. If I did, my main concern would be about something going wrong and ruining the print (doesn't happen very often, but then the longer the print, the more annoying it is to lose it) than about it being a fire hazard. That's just my perception though.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 12:19:45 pm
content: Not much smell with PLA or PETG and it is not unpleasant regardless. ABS different room minimum or vented outside for preference as the fumes are not healthy.12 Hours of Ender Pro work today got me a non electronic control block. Front and back panels to be Laser cut Acrylic when my new stock arrives. Side Lit with strips of 6 and 3 5050's through 3mm of clear PLA at 9V so plenty more if needed. Block is 140x90x22.Fusion 360 at work for CAD. Last version of slic3r PE because I am to lazy to upgrade and it works.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 06:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: WaveyDipole on June 18, 2019, 08:23:05 amLike others have said, the size of the print will determine the time. If you have something in mind that you want to print, install Cura and load the stl file (I generally slice my projects at either .16 or .20 layer heights) to see how long it's going to take. The percentage of infill will effect the print time too. Start at 20% for a general idea.The Ender 3Prohas a solid Meanwell power supply. The fan on it is automatic and maybe runs 25% of the time, it's always cold to the touch, no worries there. I've read that the overtemp protection may not work on the Creality products. I don't sit and watch mine the entire time, but I don't leave the house while it's running either even though it's in my unfinished basement with nothing around it but concrete walls, so it's relatively safe.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 10:15:58 pm
content: You may also want to consider the Ender 5. Many of the same features as the Ender 3 Pro, but a sturdier frame and a z-axis table, i.e. the table only moves up and down. The latter was important to me because I have some other experiments in mind that would be really hard to do with a table moving in the xy plane.John

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 06:34:18 am
content: Don't bother with ABS, it stinks, releases bad stuff into the air and is designed for injection moulding (It shrinks when cooling to help release from the mould).I print in PLA for basic stuff and prototyping as it is a sugar based plastic, meaning it is renewable and mostly bio-degradable, then I use PET for the good prints. It prints well and is strong with a tiny bit of flexibility that helps stop cracking under stress.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 12:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on June 19, 2019, 06:34:18 amIt happens to shrink (all these materials do), it's not a designed in thing. ABS is a very useful material to print, despite the naysayers (and their open air printers).QuoteIt's a lot less biodegradable than people think.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 12:34:27 pm
content: PLA is also prone to creep under stress, especially at not-very-high temperatures

author: aix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 06:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 19, 2019, 12:28:35 pmI've been wondering for some time exactly how biodegradable PLA is. Anyone got any insights to offer?

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 06:33:20 pm
content: Quote from: aix on June 19, 2019, 06:10:16 pmHere is a research paper on the subject you can read. A quick scan seems to imply that the microorganisms required to degrade PLA efficiently are still currently under study. This paper is 10 years old now, so its possible there is more recent findings.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 07:08:41 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on June 17, 2019, 06:00:30 pmHow so? All their firmware is available in source form athttps://github.com/Creality3DPrinting

author: aix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 08:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on June 19, 2019, 06:33:20 pmThanks for the reference. I'm not super curious about the exact strains of bacteria that like to munch on PLA, but the introduction is interesting. There, it says:QuoteThat's actuallymorebiodegradable than I would have guessed, not less (as implied by an earlier poster).

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 10:50:05 pm
content: Part of the issue with breakdown of PLA is it requires both microorganisms and HEAT to occur. The other is peoples expectations it is not the same as fruit and vegetable scraps when shoved in the dirt and it doesn't become unrecognizable quickly.It is still the lesser of the plastic evils against the likes of PETG and ABS and as it comes from a renewable source material better again.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 02:25:08 am
content: There are two price points and quality ranges for 3D printers based on if becoming a 3D printer technician sounds like fun to you, or if you just want/need to make parts.If working ON your 3D printer sounds like fun, then get a cheap Chinese kit.If working WITH your 3D printer is the goal and you have a real use for one, spend the bucks to get something from a real company with local representation, a warranty, and support.In my opinion, owning a 3D printer "just because" without a real defined purpose pretty much makes it hard to justify the price of a reliable machine from a reputable company. If you are just getting a machine to replace theoretical random broken plastic stuff, each one of those parts will end up effectively costing hundreds of dollars.One the other hand, if you buy the cheap machine you will probably ultimately spend about the same amount as the expensive machine in your time keeping the thing running and replacing/fixing it when it breaks.So I guess my point is, unless you want another hobby working ON 3D printer mechanicals, just design your parts and make friends with someone with a 3D printer and pay/bribe/trade that guy to print them for you. You will probably save money in the long run.