non-shrouded multimeter probes -> inexpensive - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 04:18:40 pm
content: I am refurbishing a number of multi meters and need to find decent quality but inexpensive set of leads for them. Some can use probes with shrouded banana plugs and some cannot. I found a decent lead set with shrouded plugs but not un-shrouded ones. I have tried the Pamona adapter but they do not fit every meter and are $4 each. (I'm not just being cheap these are being refurbished to get them into the hands of young beginners so I have to keep the cost down.)Any links to decent un-shrouded test leads? Or even shrouded ones? Thanks!

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 05:38:46 pm
content: Have you considered retractable shroud for some safety on meters which cannot accept shroud?http://www.ebay.com/itm/50Pcs-4mm-Retractable-Sheath-Stackable-Male-Banana-Plug-Connector-Solder-Type-/182293723993

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 05:53:51 pm
content: I had not come across those before. It still may run into a compatibility issue with some meters and adds another step/cost. It is a good idea though.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 05:57:18 pm
content: I have some of those cheap ones. They are just OK. They defeat the purpose of the shroud (to protect the user from high voltages) because they are stack-able and you can get too close to the female end with your hand when plugging/unplugging.You can just buy some shrouded probes and then cut the shrouds off with an X-acto. Works great, and they fit both meters. They lose the CAT rating and added safety of the shrouds, but leads worked like that for decades without much trouble.

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 06:03:10 pm
content: I thought about cutting the shroud off but had not tried it yet. These meters are going to be for beginners so I don't think they will be measuring anything higher than mains voltage and there are 1000 times easier ways to shock yourself on mains voltage than plugging in a meter lead. Besides which, who plugs the lead into a meter with the lead already hooked to high voltage?

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 06:07:11 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on October 07, 2016, 05:57:18 pmCommon jack is connected to A/mA jack so that's the difference? Shroud covers exposed metal. Besides, there are different styleshttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/BP454-20pcs-Nickel-Plated-4mm-retractable-In-Line-Banana-Plug-Solder-type/32289367401.html

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 06:32:47 pm
content: I agree that the shrouds are generally overkill. High voltages can of course arc. Though you shouldn't be using most meters with regular probes on anything more than 1kV anyway.I have personally had 3kV arc to my hand when I got too close to something while holding a ground lead. So I can tell you that 3kV will surely arc out of those banana connectors. But, again, you wouldn't be using these with high voltages like that.The shrouds on the parts that plug In to the meter are at least useful if you happen to have the leads connected to the voltage source when plugging/unplugging. You wouldn't want high voltage dangling at the end of the wire. Again, we are talking human error here, and poor practices. So in general I wouldn't be too concerned if you are careful.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 06:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on October 07, 2016, 06:32:47 pmThat doesn't sound like a good idea for beginners. Especially for beginners I wouldn't want to skimp on safety because earning a Darwin award shouldn't be easy!

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 06:54:04 pm
content: You can just buy some shrouded probes and then cut the shrouds off with an X-acto. Works great, and they fit both meters. They lose the CAT rating and added safety of the shrouds, but leads worked like that for decades without much trouble.Ditto this, and you still have protection.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 09:16:29 pm
content: I'd like to see how it behaves at 10 or 16A, maybe the plastic melts...

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2016, 10:27:09 pm
content: cant you upgrade them to shroulded sockets?

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2016, 02:46:55 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on October 07, 2016, 09:16:29 pmYou would like to see how what behaves?QuoteNo, that is next to impossible on most meters and adds another expense. We are not talking about equipment that is going to be used out in the field on HV sources.QuoteI tried this tonight and found that with the leads I have if I leave just 3/16" (4mm) of the shroud left it plugs into every meter I have with no exposed metal, except for the HP 3478A. The jacks on it are a bit odd anyhow due to how recessed they are, they are not designed for shrouded plugs and they will not fit the Pamona adapters. I have one set of test leads that work well, even some standard banana jacks don't fit well. The loss of the CAT rating is not important as meters that do not take shrouded leads all predate the CAT rating system I believe and as Malcom Reynolds once said, "You can't missing something you've never had."

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2016, 07:15:50 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 07, 2016, 06:41:11 pmBeginners shouldn't be working with more than about 30V if they truly don't have electrical safety training, or education (self taught is fine, but there needs to be some study and practice).Once you start playing with mains or especially with HV circuits things become very dangerous.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 06:49:50 pm
content: I've been playing with mains quite a lot, and there are 2 basic rule to observe:1. make your circuit first and then plug it in.2. work with live circuits only if necessary, if so isolate yourself from the ground.Then everything comes relatively easy, if you keep in mind that things. With HV, things change drastically since you need to have specific-rated equipment and always ask questions before... After it's too late since HV circuits won't forgive, (and transformers are just waiting you to do something dumb... to kill you!)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 07:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on October 27, 2016, 06:49:50 pmJust added a few other useful rules... (don't ask how I came up with these)

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 07:35:37 pm
content: While not super inexpensive, theProbmaster 8000 series DMM leadswith the 8018s retractable shroud are an excellent value at $15.90. I have a pair I use with my HP 3478A. They are the best DMM probes I have - better IMO that my Pomona or Fluke probes.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 07:55:28 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff_Birt on October 08, 2016, 02:46:55 amHave you come across these type of adaptors, they tighten onto the existing socket with an allen key tightened collet type of clamp:Cost is £1 GBP each, one off. £0.80 each in small quantities. There may be cheaper sources then mine.

author: Fisher77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 09:14:40 pm
content: Didn't see a budget on how much you want to spend, but these are great leads. Not to pricey either.http://probemaster.com/8000-series-test-leads-only/Dave did a review on them on a mail bag episode. Can be seen at 21.10 of the video.The unshrouded ones are the 8010S. Nice and flexible, with 48" silicone wires. I bought a pair for my 1980's Micronta. $15.90 a pair, and free shipping.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 09:17:04 pm
content: Those are pretty cool Cerebus.. Have a source for them, or a part number?For meters with the old jacks that lack shroud support, especially old binding post type jacks, I find the military surplus Elwyn test leads works very well indeed. The banana jacks are really strong and stay put in the old binding post jacks.They are rubber wire, but rubber really feels quite nice (never thought I would say that) in the hands. Actually, they feel better than silicone, IMHO. They will likely eventually degrade, but I will buy new ones by then. You can seal them with silicone lube and they will last many decades.The Elwyn probes are long (54") and come with various screw in adapters. They are quite cheap on eBay as well, if you look around. They come sealed in foil. So the rubber is brand new when you open it.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 10:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on October 27, 2016, 09:17:04 pmThose are fromhttps://www.rapidonline.com/pjp-3300-iec-r-red-shrouded-socket-adaptor-17-1605. They have black and green too.PJP is their "own brand" so they are probably available from other places under other names. The only reason I didn't post the link before was that it's a UK supplier and the OP was in the US. Rapid are now part of the German Conrad group who are fairly widespread in Europe, but not the US.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 10:13:54 pm
content: I'm also a Probemaster user (extensively actually). And although I have stuff from both the 8000 series and 9000 series, I'd recommend the latter if you want to use more than the typical probe tips. The reason being, the 9000 series is modular, so they don't attach to the probe; just the lead wire. Which means you don't have the probe weight hanging off of your test point, so your attachment is far more likely to stay put instead of slipping off. BTDT, so I've become fond of attachments that attach directly to the lead rather than the probe. YMMV, depending on what you're working on however.If all you need are a basic set of probes, the 8000 series are excellent.FWIW, they only offer spring loaded probes using the 8000 series probe body, and they're excellent; much better than the Fluke/Pomona equivalents.Regardless of the series you choose, the kits are less expensive than buying individually. Equivalently speaking, they're also less expensive than Fluke/Pomona, yet don't sacrifice quality in doing so.As per meter connector ends, the retractable types are effectively universal IME, yet offer some additional protection during insertion/removal; meaning they'll fit old equipment (pre-shrouded input jacks), as well as more recent stuff that uses shrouded input jacks. That said, you can still knock yourself on your ass if you're not paying attention, no matter the lead version.

author: JonM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2016, 02:58:06 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 27, 2016, 10:03:36 pmAnd now they are out of stock for 1-2 months! Maybe there was a rush of forum readers who drained the supply.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2016, 03:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: JonM on October 28, 2016, 02:58:06 pmNow that hurts. The reason, when the subject came up, that I had them in mind was I planning to order a few (along with some other 4mm stuff) from Rapid in the next few days to bulk my order for something else up to the magic "free postage" point. Looks like I might have shot myself in the foot. [Fx: Muttley voice: Mutter, mutter, grumble, mutter...]

author: sean0118
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2016, 02:02:42 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on October 27, 2016, 06:49:50 pmThat's not enough, even if you isolate yourself from earth.... touch live with one hand while other hand is touching something earthed = deadThe safest way would be to connect your test equipment while the circuit is powered down, step back and power it up and not touch anything while it's live.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2016, 02:56:16 am
content: Quote from: sean0118 on October 29, 2016, 02:02:42 amA old hand's trick I was taught, so long ago I don't want to remember how long, is if you MUST work on live equipment then use only one hand and put the other behind your back, into a hip pocket or behind your belt to minimize the chances of accidentally earthing the non-working hand. I must have been well drilled because I find myself still doing it automatically.