How to monitor your employees by email?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 12:48:35 am
content: Theres a company I'm helping out where I'm acting as the temporary computer guy. In reality I don't know that much, but I learn fast and I'm not an idiot. Here is the situation: The owner suspects one of his employees of doing something (illegal: civil not criminal) under the companies name. He's not 100% sure so he doesn't want to ask the employee and doesn't want to confront him until he has proof. So he uses a company computer but no one basically has access to it. The only thing I have access to is admin priv on the Microsoft outlook account (two mail boxes, on is mine with admin and his the user).About him: he's not very bright and not good with computers but thinks he is. Hes the manager of one to two employees (That's like being King to him!) so he has the passwords. He wont even let his employee check the company email or even their own mailboxes, because that would mean giving out the precious password and losing the one thing in his life he has control over. So he first reads their emails then forwards them to their personal gmail accounts. So what I did was give him the password to the master mailbox (info@website.com) and told him he is the administrator, he basically started jerking off in excitement right there. In reality he's just a user with the default settings/privileges.So is there a way for me to go into the email without changing his password? I can go in but then the password will be reset and it will lock him out. Or have it forward all the email to my account as bcc. Sent items are of interest too.Is there a way to send him a key logger? He was totally baffled when I showed him that you can mark things as unread to make it look like no one was opening them, and I still don't think he knows how to do that. I can send him an email with an attachment and he will probably open it. I am doing this stuff from home so I don't have any physical access to his computer. If it was my company I would just fire his ass, but some people have no idea of how to run a business or deal with employees.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:40:40 am
content: What mail system is this?Don't tell me everyone has their own GMail account...You can perhaps ask Google for administrative access to the account, but somehow I don't think you're actually going to get anywhere unless you were using an enterprise email account or system. Which would then be configurable to have administrative access, so you'd be done already.AFAIK, it's built in to MS Exchange, if you were using it, and, I'd imagine, any other enterprise mailing system.FYI, you may also want to check that the employment contract includes that, any communications made for, or in the name of, the company, are property of the company. If there's no clause for that, the e-mail might as well be as good as private (just as it apparently is safely locked away in a GMail account)... or maybe not wholly private, but you'd need to make that argument then, that it's company property, and legal arguments cost money.IANAL and IANAITP, just thinking out loud.Tim

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:51:55 am
content: I prefer the much more subtle method of staring at him constantly until he gives in.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:09:13 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 16, 2017, 12:48:35 amMy god, this seems like a very shitty workplaceQuote from: yada on May 16, 2017, 12:48:35 amAre you sure you can legally do this? You should really verify with the Labour Standards of the province you are living in."Two wrongs don't make a right"Be careful, if you do something illegal you can be assured that the company will not stand by your side.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:20:14 am
content: Everything here is on a didn't come from me, don't do this basis. For legal reasons I insist that you follow nothing that I am going to say, and that just because I say that you can do it does NOT mean you should. All actions you take are your own.Now after that, there are USB keyloggers. You just slip it into the back of his PC and it gets all keystrokes he has made. I got no clue where to get it, or how well they work, I just know they exist.If you want to get REALLY devious, you can break his computer in some way so he has to send it into IT for some sort of repairs. Intercept it, image the drive, and see what you can pull.One idea is to get a USB port killer and just bust all his USB ports. This is illegal unless the company owns the computer, you have permission to do this, and you can prove all the data on that computer is the property of your company.You could also just do a really basic, have him log in, distract him, get him away from the machine, and hop in and see what you can snatch.Again, I never told you this. This is all mostly illegal, and I am not responsible for what you do with this knowledge I have given you.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:22:25 am
content: Technical capability and legality are two completely different things..... and if you do go an illegal route and find something, you may not be able to act on it without bringing a shitstorm down on yourself and/or the company.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:37:58 am
content: How do the underlings that get emails sent to their Gmail accounts reply? Do they reply direct from their Gmail account - or aren't you worried about them?Does the problem person send their email to a Gmail account - or are they too wrapped up in their power trip to think that hard?If it all the stuff of interest goes through the Outlook account, I'd see if there was a way to automatically forward a copy of everything to another account - maybe a third account that only you have access to, solely for this purpose.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 05:06:13 am
content: That sounds like an absolutely awful place to work.Is he using a company owned computer? I'm not a legal expert so don't take my legal advice directly, but I was under the impression that stuff like keystroke logging is kosher provided the computer is company property. It also seems like more than one person ought to have access to the company email account(s), in case the guy gets hit by a truck or falls ill or something.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:04:12 am
content: You weren't terribly specific about your outlook vintage or setup, but with admin access you may be able to do it without his password. You might find this useful:https://www.paradigmcc.com/2009/06/12/using-microsoft-outlook-to-access-other-users-mailboxes/.You're in Canada, so the laws may be different. In the US, you generally need a cover-your-ass policy for legal reasons before you engage in anything that could be considered spying. Basically the company needs a written policy statement in the employee packet that states that all data and communications on company equipment are company propery and may be accessed by the company at any time.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:22:05 am
content: QuoteHe can add you to the permissions list if you're in a properly setup corporate domain.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:32:29 am
content: You can in the UK at least monitor emails and store them in a workplace but you should have a belt and braces IT policy and contract clause to just to cover your arse, that's something to bring up with an employment lawyer.I have implemented email archiving systems in the past which were based on MS Exchange and other servers, all of which cost money.I would, in your situation, look into a server called Mercury/32 though, it's robust, lightweight (will service ~30 users while running on a low end Pentium 600 machine) and most importantly for you, allows you to run scripts or batch files which will archive emails off to a folder because every email is created as a file and stored in a folder named for the user until the user collects it.You can configure it to copy all emails, in and out, to an archive location, to another user, both, etc. etc. Every email file has a unique name and can be indexed for searching and retrieval.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:38:55 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 16, 2017, 01:40:40 amgmail is not in the picture. Everything is done in MS outlook webmail, where I have one mail box with admin privs. and he is the user. Gmail was just mentioned to show how retired the system was before I set it up. H e would read their email, then manually forward it to their private emails instead of giving them the password to their own outlook boxes or the main info@dwwejdi.com account. At my company I trained the staff to all be independent so they could make money if I wasn't there.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:52:50 am
content: Yes, typical office365. He can add people to the permission list on folders in his mailbox. (or entire account)You can make his mailbox shared. But that would give himtwomailboxes, one personal, and one shared. (otherwise he has no login)

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:54:07 am
content: Its a small company with about 8 people so theres no contracts or HR or any of that, I'm the it department if that tells you anything as to the economic health of this company. Worst outcome is he gets the sack for being "10 minutes late" one day. Yes he makes them email him and he then forwards it to the customer, so he can check for mistakes. This is his first time as manager I bet and hes trying to payback 20 yeas of shitty bosses on these poor people under him. I work remotely so going by the office is out of the question for a while.Just want to monitor him, going to check out those other links here soon

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:47:42 am
content: What about being up front with him? If he already is about to get cut for being late, maybe just tell him:It's been brought to our attention that there may be some malicious email activity. yadda yadda, then the ultimatum: Give us access so we can start a vetting procedure, or we have to let you go.In so many different words of course, but I know if it were me - I'd want the heads up and the chance to prove it wrong.I don't think this already doubtful workplace will benefit from any secret agent activities. Also think about repercussions if you really piss him off. Maybe give him the opportunity to explain himself and change his ways.Those interactions are often a moment of truth, maybe he's unhappy too. It's possible to change that by being forthcoming so that both parties can find a middle ground, come to an agreement, and all are better for it. Once working against you, maybe your best asset later. Weird how that works.Just some ramblings from a recent codemonkey-to-CTO whippersnapper.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 08:01:04 am
content: From your OT I gather you are hired as IT person.The owner from the company wants you to do this?Then step 1 before you do ANYTHING, is get a written approval from the owner stating he approves you to do .................... (make very explicit what you are allowed to do and what is out of scope).Verbal assignments are worthless in court.If you do not do this and something goes terribly wrong (keylogger found or worse hacked by external party or something like that) you are not only be fired but you can be subject of a lawsuit.Step 1 before doing anything that could be against the law is getting written and signed approval.Step 2 is when you have permission get physical access to the pc, use the malware cyberattack of last weekend as an excuse to let him log in as admin on that pc and you ask for some privacy while you are scanning and updating his pc and putting stuff in for your asignment.But step 1 is crucial, without it anything you do out of the book can cause your career to be terminated before it begun and other parties/companies are not hiring those persons.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 16, 2017, 02:20:14 amA better way to break it would be to disconnect the power supply from the main board.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 03:25:10 pm
content: Quote from: grifftech on May 16, 2017, 02:23:09 pmIt's harder to in and out that. You might as well take the hard drive. Or I guess you could do it while he's gone.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 03:55:39 pm
content: In the US, he would be in trouble under things like Sorbanes Oxley and other acts requiring retention of corporate data. ** May not apply to all small business operations.He's in minor legal trouble for not retaining all the emails, including both sides of the private emails. If the company is ever sued by an outside corporation, ] that is a heck of a mess.He's also asking the employee to possibly pay their ownMoney to provide a data service for the company with no reimbursement or contractual obligation. That can be a felony or misdemeanor in some US states.Most nations, well except Nigeria, have similar laws on business and educational communications. Best to reign him in now, rather then to risk severe damages later.Check with a lawyer, because the company owns his "work product" on the computer, and tell him your pulling in all computers to install HD encryption for privacy and legal reasons, and then install whatever you need within the law.If Canadian law is anything like US law, you'd within your rights to do so on behalf of the company. Check with a lawyer first, of course.STEVE

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 04:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 16, 2017, 12:48:35 amJust say NO. You don't have the super-spy investigative skills, you are on dodgy legal grounds and your owner probably will disown you if it goes pear shaped. Suggest that you are not the person for the job.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 04:31:42 pm
content: It must depend on the country where one works. One of the products I was involved with in my stint at Microsoft was Systems Management Server. It is an IT management system that handles inventory of software and hardware as well as various monitoring. It was quite an eye opener being able to play with the back end and see what it could do. Depending on how it was set up, you could see what software was running and when, capture keystrokes and monitor the user by viewing a copy of their screen which could be done with or without their knowledge. I've always operated under the assumption that my employer can monitor anything and everything I do on company computers or while connected to the corporate network.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:08:14 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on May 16, 2017, 02:22:25 amThat is what parallel construction is for. Learn from the best; learn from US law enforcement and courts.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 11:54:49 pm
content: Quote from: SkyMaster on May 16, 2017, 02:09:13 amI'm in USA right now (merka!), and this is a small company of maybe 8 people. So there is no HR dept IT department etc. And no one is going to be suing anyone, and that doesn't seem like something they do anyways, the owners are not American and I'm helping them understand how westerners do things. Worse case the guy has a reason to get fired, for doing side deals (selling cars under their lic, or printing temp. lic plates). I'm the IT department and the marketing department, and I do everything over the internet. They are basically a new business so I'm helping them with experience. Most helpful would be to just go into the mailbox. We are suspicious because he keeps changing the password on the user acct mailbox, I don't think he knows my admin mail box his is under exits. If I was down in the office I could set something up covertly but I'm not. I'm also a friend of a friend of the owner so I don't don't want to start making waves there.This guy is also trying to explain to the owner that he can do my job and they shouldn't waste their money. He has no clue as to any of the stuff I do, doesn't even know it exists. I personally don't talk to the guy because the first week there he started telling me what to do. He thought I was a regular employee and he was my manager. I explained that the owner (his boss) is one of my customers and I don't normally even talk to the employees let alone take orders. I would be so embarrassed to think I was someone's boss only to realize I wasn't even a customer/client with any say.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 12:08:10 am
content: Quote from: alexanderbrevig on May 16, 2017, 07:47:42 amTo put it bluntly: This guys a bitch. He won't be there in six months because he's the sales manager and doesn't sell anything. Plus hes dumb as rocks, didn't graduate high school, and making 500USD a week at 45 years old, even with his "over 20 years of inside knowledge/ experience". He has no potential and is not an asset to anyone. Most likely fired from his last job. He's a nobody and will never get passed that because he has the maturity of a 16 year old.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 12:31:11 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on May 16, 2017, 04:00:23 pmSuggesting that I'm not the person for the job would cost me the job. I learn very quick. I once walked into a body shop with an insurance estimate to get my car fixed. Instead the guy assumed I knew how to use the software and write estimates. I walked out of there with a job and my first raise. I learned everything my first day without the owner who sat right next to me even knowing. After my first week I had things down to a science. After a month there I explained to the owner that I was just some bum trying to get my car fixed and I had never done any of this stuff before in my life. He told me I was one of the best employees he ever had and I worked there until the place was sold, then opened my own business with one of their managers. Within two years I went from being an unemployed alcoholic living with my mother in a tiny little apartment, to buying a 2011 Maserati gran turismo with 6,000 miles on it and living sober in the nice part of town being my own boss. Half of success is just confidence and knowing that you have the upper hand as long as you use your brain to outperform the other people.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 01:10:13 am
content: Realize when we warn you about lawsuits, it's got nothing at all to with the owners, who I'm sure are reasonable people. The owners still have to deal with lawsuits brought against them, such as a disgrunted ex-employee that thinks he can use labor laws to get a bigger settlement.I have a suggestion: establish company email boxes for everyone in the company, and have the owners insist that people start using them for company business, even if it's internal. That'll put all the relevent communications under the company umbrella rather than in various private mailboxes.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 01:41:32 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on May 17, 2017, 01:10:13 amThis is obviously step 1. Establish a company email system with the email server administered from HQ. This could be a local Exchange server, or more likely for a small business a cloud solution from Microsoft, Google or whoever. Make sure HQ has admin rights on the server and then issue user accounts to the employees. Make it a condition of employment that all company business is transacted through official company email accounts. Do not issue email admin rights to anyone not entrusted with appropriate authority.The company then has the ability and the authority to oversee all email going through the server. The company also, for legal reasons, has the ability and the right to archive the email database in case a court ever issues a disclosure order.It follows that company officers, with due cause, may examine any emails stored on the server. It should be made a condition of employment that the company has this right. In the USA this is a given, in the EU there are privacy concerns, but with appropriate cause such problems are surmountable.The most important thing, in this as in all cases, is to do everything formally, officially, and by the book.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 05:56:23 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on May 17, 2017, 01:10:13 amThat's the first thing I did when they told me about this stupid forwarding idea. I gave everyone their own emails and one general mail box. The manager still won't let them check it and reads each one then forwards it to their personal email addresses. did I mention this guys an idiot and is running this part of the company into the ground? This idea is great when the salesman gets a lead at 9:00 and the manager is not there because he like to leave a lot, its not forwarded to them until the next afternoon, and by then the customer has already gone somewhere else. Then if they want to send an email they have to type it up give it to the manager he reads it then resends it. He does this for EVERYTHING. My 6 year old nephew ran a lemon aide stand better and seriously makes more money at it. This is what working with trump must be like.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:01:01 am
content: The owner needs to tell this guy that this is *not* acceptable. Lay down the rules, all business transacted through official work accounts, each person uses their own account, or a shared account for situations where anyone on the team can work with somebody, no exceptions. If he refuses to abide by this then that is grounds to fire him. This whole situation is ridiculous and easily preventable, forget trying to spy on him, just fix the procedure.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:42:20 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 17, 2017, 06:01:01 amWhat I have found about these people is like to learn the hard way and have this old country mentality that anyone who is older has more experience and knows more by default. This owner just got burned by people stealing $100,000's in cars off (broke in and stole the keys had a Maserati some Mercedes AMG's an M3 etc)his lot but doesn't file a claim with insurance because insurance said his rates will go up. Even if that was true, its not, and he paid back the premium in 10 years time, thats still like having a loan to go out and replace the inventory. He gets burned again and agin but not twice, but the bad part is there are so many mistakes to be made that you have no room for mistakes. He brought a guy to the auction to help him buy cars. The guy just bid on what ever car, didn't Carfax and vin's, then bought cars that will never sell at that location. The cars sat for months because they were too exspensive for the area, then went back to the auction.This moron manager is selling one car a month and you know what hes doing twice a week? Buying more inventory at tax season, the used cars Christmas time. There are the two months you don't buy cars, because the prices go way up, and this manager is adding to the 30+ cars they have that are not selling. But every time I tell the guy this he brings up the fact the manger has 20 year experience. He has been doing something 20 years and hes happy to get paid 500 a week? something is terribly wrong. This guy is also cheap and wont buy a sign for the place. My first day there I sent a friend to find the place. She drove by it three times because they don't have a sign. That was the purpose of having her drive there to prove my point, I didn't really need a ride I just needed him to see the importance.Out of a list of 20 things I gave him that were wrong with the business that needed to be fixed that day, he has fixed two in two months. One got fixed only because it didn't cost any money. I have dealt with this so many times I just know when people are going to fuck up like a sixth sense, and just bill them until right before they are about to close then tell them I feel bad charging them, before they tell me they cant afford my services, that way I have more work at their next failed business venture.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:52:37 am
content: Walk away.You will not win because, TBH, it sounds like they're going to the wall regardless of anything you do.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:59:50 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 17, 2017, 12:31:11 amFirstly, it doesn't sound like the job is that hot anyway, sounds like you would be better working in a better organisation, perhaps your own.Secondly, I was suggesting that you say you are not the person to do the spying, spying isn't a normal part of a role.The other suggestions here are defininitely the way to go... explain how you need to rationalise the email system in a way that would give you control and moving to the new scheme must be mandatory, if the owner fails to endorse and follow through on that then you're actually just doing this on your own initiative and the gains are probably going to be minimal whereas the risks in terms of relationships and legal far outweigh them.Personally, I would get in the Maserati and be gone in a trail of dust to pastures new.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 10:25:06 am
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on May 17, 2017, 09:59:50 amI should have made that clear I don't work for this company they pay me as a consultant. If this was my job I would have quit. I no longer own the Maserati, a house was a better investment, but I get to say I owned one on my CV or Resume'.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 04:59:33 pm
content: You're putting on your cv that you owned a maserati?

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: yada on May 16, 2017, 11:54:49 pmUmm rethink that.Not for now, but you can be sure the only thing the guy in question will have on his mind once he gets taken down is to sue the company.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 05:05:10 am
content: But then the investigation shows there is no way you could have known about the employee's wrongdoings - so if you did it's necessarily that you used illegal practices, and thus lose by default.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 05:23:47 am
content: I was referring to the employee suing the employer for wrongful termination, if that applies wherever the whole thing happens. In many places you can't just fire a guy without proving he did something very bad.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 05:42:33 am
content: Yes, you can fire him. But here you need to either get a permit, or pay out a settlement.Then you can hire investigators, and get the money back if he was doing illegal stuff.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 05:56:21 am
content: Here I believe the settlement has no legal value, some companies will offer settlement for employees they fire without reason or sufficient notice against "no suing" and most people are happy with that out of good will, but I'm pretty sure that if someone went on and sued anyway they'd win AND get to keep the money since there is no way you can legally remove someone's right to use the justice system. Could probably even add a charge for corruption.Made me laugh when DJI added a clause in their T&Cs that by using their devices you agree to waive your right to sue them for any reason. Probably enough to scare some away, but there's no way in hell that would hold in court. If it did everybody would do that and nobody could sue anyone for anything. Granted it would be sooo much better, but I'm pretty sure at least in the US the pretty strong "legal industry" would fight that to death.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:33:48 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 17, 2017, 06:42:20 amThis all sounds a little bit like a criminal enterprise of some sort. May I suggest just leaving and avoiding any further contact with these people?

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 03:08:22 pm
content: In my state, in the US, unless he has an employment contract stating otherwise, or is a member of a Union, he is an "At Will" employee and either side can terminate the contract instantly for a single employee at a small business. Our current administration in this state has stopped state issued un-employment benefits for persons fired or who quit, unless they win an administrative appeal, so he could be out the door in 15 minutes, and ordered never to return. There is no requirement for a severance payment, although better employers will issue at least two weeks pay or more.If I'm buying a car from a dealership, and the salesman uses a personal email,, and not a corporate dot com address, I'm not going to buy from that dealership, especially if the email constitutes an offer of sale or negotiation. At least while I'm a US Citizen living in America.One little known fact, US car dealers often place microphones in sales areas to listen to customers as they talk to their families about a purchase. Its legal under a broad set of circumstances, in most states, especially if there is a warning on the entry door. So if he was in the business for a long period of time, he should know better then to play games.Its obvious that there are a lot of different employment laws around the world, that is for sure.Steve

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 12:47:14 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on May 17, 2017, 06:05:33 pmThis guy has been fired from many jobs. He makes 500USD a week, he's not far from making min wage, so its not exactly like hes a valued employee, also he has only been there maybe three months. He doesn't have the resources to sue, nor the motivation, no attorney is going to make any small settlement worth their time. He can easily be fired for not making any sales, or coming in late like he has every time I have been there. Its been my experience that people don't sue over low paying jobs especially when they have a break even sales goal they have never met. Break even is 10 cars sold per month. Most he has ever sold was two. For fun I disabled web/mobile access of his mail box two days ago and he hasn't even noticed. He's not smart enough to set up outlook on his computer, so I have no idea what he's doing. Nobody at this company has any idea of what they are doing; for instance they have over 30 cars to sell and the manager is going out and buying more cars during tax season; auction prices are at their highest, normally you stock up on cars right before tax season and only buy enough cars to replenish the stock if any because the profit margin is so small as it is.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 01:20:34 am
content: Quote from: Kilrah on May 18, 2017, 05:56:21 amSome lawyers sue. They are "trial lawyers". Others do different things. In the UK the distinction would be barrister vs solicitor, whereas in the US the distinction is informal. Some spend their time writing contracts.It's very common for companies to write contracts that remove your right to litigate in court, by specifying mandatory arbitration of the contract. If the contract is written correctly, any dispute will touch on some contract language, which is solely covered by arbitration according to the contract. You cannot raise an issue by filing in court if you have agreed to do so only in arbitration by entering a binding contract.Why then are people still getting sued? In most cases they never had a written contract at all (even many employment situations do not involve one).

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 01:57:56 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 21, 2017, 01:48:50 amQuote from: helius on May 21, 2017, 01:20:34 amThey don't even have an employee contract or handbook. The dude says when can you start?, then a week later you get a paycheck. That goes on until you stop showing up or you show up but there is no check that week. When there is no check for you its your que to leave and not come back.