Let this be a lesson to anybody who has built a computer. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 01:50:48 am
content: It is one to me. One that I knew when I bought it, and one I should have followed.My power supply is dying. It hasn't taken anything with it (yet), but it is shutting off and restarting my computer when it goes under load.And I want to stress this is NOT a cooling problem. I have a 240mm AIO cooler on an Intel chip. It's not going anywhere over 70cI just bought an EVGA PSU, 750w, semi modular. It has all I need, and it's one I should have bought in the first place, as it's probably cheaper than the one I have in there, and from a better brand, but I was enamored by my PSU's many connectors (I think around 4 molex and 6 SATA)My computer still works, and if I don't stress it, it will stay on. This is to you building a computer, I am lucky. A large number of things could have happened, including the destruction of any and all components in the machine. Buy from EVGA, Corsair, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, and that's around it. There are a few other brands, but those four, especially EVGA, will not lead you wrong.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 01:57:46 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 01:50:48 amI know of this situation myself.I've gone through several PC power supplies in the last 6 years. I'm not learning as fast as you are.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:04:04 am
content: The last person I need to be taking lessons from..Especially when you've named four upstarts, none of whom design or manufacture any of their offerings.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:11:08 am
content: The thing is, it's REALLY REALLY TEMPTING to spend 10 dollars more on a nicer CPU than a good PSU when your budget is around 300-400 bucks (As mine normally is). This PSU has seen around 3-4 different configs, and has had years of reliable, undisrupted use.However there is extra salt on this wound. The power supply I am using is one that completely died straight up even behind a UPS in a machine I built for my grandfather. It's an Apevia PSU, and one I never should have bought.Quote from: Monkeh on May 15, 2017, 02:04:04 amI stated brands, I never mentioned manufacturers. Those companies have managed to source decent power supplies, and are a reliable resource for decent power supplies. And as you are probably aware, most power supplies are OEM parts that those companies buy and sell off, the only difference being some companies sell crap, like my PSU, and some companies sell decent OEM parts, like the companies I mentioned.There has rarely, if ever been a shit power supply from EVGA, and if there has been I have never heard of it. The same goes for Corsair, Cooler Master, and a few other brands.But if you think you know a good brand or re-seller, or wish to buy direct parts, go ahead.And in the same logic, don't ever buy from a supermarket, as they do not grow nor package their food.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:19:50 am
content: I seem to have gotten lucky with PSUs, had a few failures but never catastrophic. I do more research now, but when I was newer I would not really do as much research, I'd basically sort by price, skip over the cheapest or "too good to be true" specs/pricing then start looking at mid end models from company names I recognize.What's crazy is how many computer PSUs can't even handle their rating. There are review sites that load test PSUs and a lot of them fail before they even get to their rated wattage.

author: john_c
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:22:13 am
content: I agree with Monkeh. Why not cut out the marketing companies, and buy from FSP or Seasonic. All that a company like Cooler Master (to take the most questionable of your recommendations) is doing is putting their badge on and putting it in a box (and handling warranty claims also, I suppose).

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:25:02 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 01:50:48 amYou couldn't be more wrong on this one, sadly.EVGA has a HUGE amount of series of power supplies, and a lot of budget power supplies models these days, that are literally bottom of the barrel, made by very cheap OEM resellers, with cheap capacitors, barely achieving 80+ bronze and with at most 2 year warranty.Thermaltake also uses A LOT of OEM manufacturers and they make the model names so similar that it's very hard to keep up with them, to know which model was made by which OEM, and for example it's very difficult to look for reviews for a particular model in their offerings.Cooler Master also has some great power supplies but they also had some really bad designs in the value range. They don't shy away from using cheap OEM manufacturers, like EVGA.Corsair used to be good, their power supplies were OEM designs from Seasonic , Flextronics , Chicony but lately they've slowly transitions to using mostly CWT for their mid-range designs because unlike Seasonic, Great Wall and CWT are more flexible and allow them to choose cheaper (lower life) fans and cheaper capacitors with not so great reputation. These days their budget power supplies are a mix of Great Wall (OEM) designs and CWT designs, with cheap capacitors and crap fans and small warranties. Basically they're cutting corners wherever they can.Yes, their power supplies are good and they'll last the warranty time and more but the price per performance isn't there.If you want quality and relatively cheap, go for Seasonic power supplies. They use quality components even for their budget models.If you want good but still cheap, consider SOME models made by FSP (sometimes referred as Fortron) and sold under their brand - they often use cheaper capacitors and have smaller warranties but the budget FSP power supplies are often better than the EVGA budget power supplies.Then there's also SUPERFLOWER which has great mid-range and high end power supplies but the budget power supplies are often contracted and made at other factories because their own factory is too busy making OEM power supplies for EVGA and othersSome Rosewill models are actually quite good for the price. Rosewill is Newegg's brand and they use various OEMs for various series including Enhance (great), Superflower (great) and Sirtec/High Power (good, better than other budget OEMs imho)In US, XFX is very good, their power supplies are mostly Seasonic OEM designs.This website is very good , shows you which OEM makes various series and models sold by brands :http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/PSUReviewDatabase.htmlHere's EVGA's page (see how all cheap models are made by HEC which is worse than FSP and Sirtec imho) :http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page2293.htmCorsair and their budget Great Wall / HEC / CWT lowest end designs :http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page447.htmCooler Master 's mix of OEMs :http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page364.htmThermaltake's even worse:http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page680.htm

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:27:45 am
content: Whatever.Buy from who you want. Serves me right for making a suggestion.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:45:34 am
content: When it comes to psu reviews go here first.http://www.jonnyguru.comHave a question, ask it on the forumhttp://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/---good luck, have fun.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:52:38 am
content: I've bought a couple that are made by FSP, and no issues. I've even had some cheapies that came with the pc case, and they worked fine. It depends on how much your system taxes them.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:52:47 am
content: Quote from: Vgkid on May 15, 2017, 02:45:34 amNahp, they are all resellers and only give you OEM parts. Go to the source and your golden.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:06:20 am
content: At least you didn't mention Antec.I almost always buy Seasonic power supplies. I think only two in the last 10 years were other brands.Rosewill can be surprisingly good. I've bought a lot of their stuff. I particularly like Rosewill cases because they almost never spam their company name allover the outside like most others. When you look at a computer built in a Rosewill case you can't tell who made it, which is how I like mine.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:17:58 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 02:27:45 amThis response is a little immature.You made your observations and shared them with us - and that is to be encouraged. However, you must understand there are very likely others on this forum who have had more extensive exposure to the subject at hand (not just computer power supplies) with possibly time spent directly in the industry itself ... and that their experience differs from yours.Responding as you did will not serve you well. You don't know everything - in fact, none of us do. Even including those things you may have had some experience with, there will always be someone who has had far more involvement and has far more knowledge on the subject. This is one of the reasons why I only offer input on a few topics - and am always ready to concede to those who know more.You are an enthusiastic contributor here and I would not want to discourage you in the slightest - but you will find it less stressful when you learn to deal with these moments gracefully.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:36:59 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 02:52:47 amRead the reviews. Even the sam oem produces better worse power supplies. It all comes down to the money a original design company is willing to deal out. Some of the best ones are ones most don't know about.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:40:39 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 15, 2017, 03:32:40 amDid Delta make most of PSU's for Dell? I'm not sure, just asking...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:45:01 am
content: I haven't had much trouble with PSUs. I haven't really looked for a specific brand, I don't buy top of the line but I avoid the cheapest junk too. I think I've had a PSU failure once in my primary desktop PC since I started building them ~25 years ago.As far as power supplies not handling their rated wattage that doesn't surprise me. I've noticed a lot of wattage inflation occurring over the last 10 years or so. I've measured my core i7 desktop and it averages less than 140W from the wall with the peak under 200W. It certainly doesn't need a 600W+ PSU, at least not one that is honestly rated. A 250W PSU from the late 90s would work fine in theory.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:55:50 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 15, 2017, 03:48:35 amTrue, but some of those small OEM PSUs look like a quality built unit with juicy heatsinks and nice materials, and most likely conservatively rated, where as I've seen cheap PSUs advertised as 600w that look cheap and weight nothing and are obviously way overrated as far as watts. It's like those cheap case/PSU combos for $20 that claim 650W. LOL

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 04:22:07 am
content: building a computer in Australia?I got my parts from m.s.y.http://www.msy.com.auas for the PSU, it pays to have more capacity then you need.as there is a lot of unpredictable loads hanging off it. especially for a gaming pc.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 04:40:35 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 01:50:48 amHate to break it to you, but EVGA doesn't make supplies, they just take a PSU from one of the other manufacturers and brand it as their own. Also they really aren't renowned for high quality either, they just recently had exploding capacitors on their GPUs.They do have good support in USA though so that's something.If you really want to know about a computer PSU you might be interested in, checkout JonnyGuru's (http://www.jonnyguru.com/) website. It's the only person who does in depth PSU reviews and actually does teardowns and real measurements.His highest rated recommendation as of last time I checked are SeaSonic Platinum series (I have a 650watt version).. power factor correction, nice components and all that jazz.. They are pricey though.

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 06:10:13 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on May 15, 2017, 04:40:35 amWell... first of all, the actual person who you seem to be referring to is Jon Gerow, who now (or at least last I read) works for Corsair Components where he is the power supply product manager. Because of conflict of interest issues, he no longer does PSU reviews (as of the middle of 2012). Others are now doing the reviews at jonnyguru.com. This is not to say they aren't solid and accurate, only to clarify that Jonny isn't the one doing them now.As for EVGA PSU's, jonnyguru.com highly recommended an EVGA PSU with a power rating I am interested in. It's their G3 series 1000 watt version. jonnyguru gave it 9.8 out of 10 rating. This sounded very promising, especially with all of the high praise it was getting in the review (with the exception of the capacitors in the cables) and I was all set to purchase one. That is until I stumbled upon a thread in one of EVGA's message forums that referred to the noise level of the fan in the EVGA G3 as being excessive. Interestingly, jonnyguru did not mention this at all and in fact the only negative was what they call the "The Mediocre" portion of the summary (as opposed to the "The Bad") and it merely pointed out the caps in the cables.Here's a link to the EVGA message thread alluded to above:https://forums.evga.com/G3-fan-noise-m2631908.aspxAttached is a pic of a small database I gleaned from cybernetics.com listing 3 PSU's I am interested in.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 06:38:26 am
content: JonnyGuru.com reviews don't have any fan noise and power supply noise notes due to the way they test the power supplies.They use programmable loads to draw specific current amounts from each voltage rail, and these programmable loads have powerful noisy fans... remember, when they're testing a 1000w psu those programmable loads have to dissipate those 1000 watts somehow.Whatever noise the power supply fan makes would be covered/obscured by the much noisier programmable loads.In order to get accurate fan noise levels and so on, they'd probably have to make a big box with all the walls covered in material to prevent sound reflection and to block noise from outside, then they'd also have to add some kind of air conditioning to the box to be able to set "ambient temperature" and have a microphone inside the box - but usually measurements are done let's say 30cm away from the fan so the box would probably have to be 1m by 1m by 1m or something like that. All the programmable loads would have to be outside the box, or they'd have to be in a separate room in the house, and just cables passing between rooms. It's a pain in the a#*.They do talk about the fan short i admit, usually on the dissasembly page. They mention if it's sleeve or ball bearing or other technology, often mention the diameter and some of these details. They also say at what load levels the fans actually start spinning, in the case of hybrid fans (semi-passive).// ps so basically they didn't omit the fan noise on purpose to make that evga psu better, they don't review fan noise on all power supplies.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 06:58:06 am
content: well that pretty much sums it up

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 11:20:20 am
content: Quote from: mariush on May 15, 2017, 06:38:26 amIt really doesn't matter why they don't--at least to me and some others I've heard from--it's simply a fact that they don't.Several other review sites ‘talk’ about PSU noise levels directly, e.g., PC Perspective, tom’sHARDWARE, TechPowerUp. It's one thing to read about sleeve vs. ball bearing vs. magnetic levitation, etc. and quite another to view actual charts and read the db differences.Quote from: mariush on May 15, 2017, 06:38:26 amNo, I don't think so either. My point was and is that it's one matrix that's important to some people and by not including it in their reviews, they are incomplete and can lead people to a purchase they may later regret; as was the case for 3 people in that EVGA thread I pointed to in my message above.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 11:36:30 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 15, 2017, 03:48:35 amIn past times, Astec, more recently Delta and they seem to be dominant in most big name brands now.'Wimpy' they may seem but they're a good match for the machines and seem to last well, rarely have to replace any and I have done on site support for sites with ~600 machines so I suspect they are more than capable of meeting their specs and are of decent quality build.How they'd perform in a fully loaded hobbyist/engineers machine may be another matter of course.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 12:04:37 pm
content: I'm happy with a few SuperFlower, be quiet! and Enermax - all 80+ Silver/Gold/Platinum. But I don't know if the latter two design the PSUs themselves. And Enermax gets only 4 out of 5 stars for a crashed PSU powered via a line interactive UPS (no more Enermax for servers).

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 12:05:36 pm
content: What the heck is "Vampiri Power" in that table of PSUs??? Standby power? I must note that what wiki says about Vampire Power as "phantom load, or leaking electricity" isn't entirely correct neither and both are used in other fields of electricity with specific purpose for descriping unwanted currents and voltages. While stated on wikipedia as a substitute for Standby power, those should be NEVER used for that substitute for S.P..Standby-power is known (while unwanted) designed feature, while "phantom load, or leaking electricity" are both non-designed features of systems that just happens because certain features of the physics.Grinds my gears when people start to smudge the century old techical terms.. Soon none knows what someone is trying to say.Quote from: Testing123 on May 15, 2017, 06:10:13 am

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 12:25:29 pm
content: Just make sure your PSU has OVP on all rails and subrails and damage is limited. Better spent some more money on a good PSU than suffer the consequences.There are tear down tests on some sites that even check out the OVP and other protections and type and brand of the capacitors etc. etc.Spent the same amount of time on selecting a PSU as on the mboard and cpu.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 03:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on May 15, 2017, 06:58:06 amI'm sure glad I can fast forward through that video.The part I don't understand about this PSU stuff is why the race to the bottom for price? Why is everybody selecting PSUs based on price or the perceived price vs performance (where performance is undefined)?I have only built one computer from bits and pieces but the idea was to support multiple graphics cards with gaming capabilities. I didn't skimp on the motherboard, CPU or graphics card so why get cheap on the PSU? About the only thing that was reasonable was the case. It's a box, how fancy does it need to be?The computer is now several years old, it's still reasonably capable and the PSU shows no signs of aging, or anything else. It just runs... It is also loud so it doesn't get a lot of use except for gaming.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 12:29:02 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on May 15, 2017, 03:05:35 pmLike everything else for sale across the globe. There is always a demographic where price is the prime driver - whether it be false economy or not.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 12:58:28 am
content: People mention the warranties a lot on this forum for computer and other parts. How does that work if you don't buy things from a store? When I buy something off amazon or almost anywhere online, I basically treat it as if I bought it off a homeless guy, you will never see him again or have anyone to call if there is a problem. If your power supply breaks and you bought it from amazon who do you call? How do you show them a receipt?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:09:14 am
content: Try contacting the seller from whom you bought the item. If they are half-decent, then they may offer you a warranty process to follow - whether that be returning the item to them or to some other party. Then the issue becomes the cost of doing this. If there is a process and you take up, then you have to wonder how long will it take.Sometimes I have had issues with some products I have bought from a cheap Chinese website and they have always addressed my concerns, usually by offering me a partial refund or store credit. That way, the matter is resolved on the spot and I can choose to repurchase or go somewhere else.If you get ignored, you will know you've done your money ... and to not go back to them.Also - DO YOU KNOW that you can do a "FOLLOW UP" on your feedback on eBay? It won't change the type or DSRs, but you can express another 80 characters of comment.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:12:44 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 16, 2017, 12:58:28 amUh, you call Amazon. If it has to go back to the manufacturer directly, you show them the Amazon invoice.How is this different to buying anywhere else?!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:15:22 am
content: e.e My graphics card has started to whine. I've had it for years, so I am putting it down to a dying PSU.The new unit comes tomorrow. Anybody want pictures?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:18:47 am
content: Graphics card is whining, must be the PSU.Yeesh.My foot hurts, it must be brain cancer.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:21:40 am
content: Depends on the whine - but I'd be checking the fan (if it has one). If you've had it for years, the bearing could be shot..... and if itwasthe PSU causing it, you would be having a lot more problems than just a whine from the graphics board.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 01:55:44 am
content: No, it's coil whine. I've had many fans with busted bearings, and that's definitely not the sound of one.And the reason why I say it's the PSU is that it's my theory that out of spec voltages and dirtier power could be causing the coils in the card's power circuitry to vibrate at a different frequency, within the audible range.Then again I could be wrong, maybe I do have brain cancer.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:15:58 am
content: Well, since I can't hear the whine, I'll take your word for it.But, as I said, if your PSU is that bad, I would expect you to have more problems than just a whine.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:23:23 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on May 16, 2017, 02:15:58 amI do. It reboots under load, however this is intermittent. I have been taking it easy on it, so it's been doing that less.Either way, I want it replaced if it's fine or not. It's not a reliable PSU.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 05:10:30 am
content: Try recap that PSU and use it at half its rated power output (so low-end HTPC.) I always put my best hardware in my best computer and let old components dribble down to other systems in my home. I have 6 computers in my apartment and only two of them are bought new.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:12:07 am
content: Quote from: technix on May 16, 2017, 05:10:30 amWho said it was the caps?While it proves nothing, the caps look completely fine, and I even think they are of good brand. In another of the same model of PSU that died, the caps were fine, and there was 0 visual indication of failure whatsoever, so it could be anything.Me using this PSU is the reason I am having the problem in the first place. Using it again IMO is not a good idea, even at half load. I am also not in need of any PSUs for any other machines. The reason I need a new one is because they are either too weak, don't have the right connectors, or I just don't trust much.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:23:16 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 16, 2017, 06:12:07 amCaps wear out, lifespan is determined by operating conditions so it's highly likely to be caps but I would agree with you, unless the PSU was unobtanium then I'd replace it as well just because the hassle of sourcing, installing and testing.Wouldn't rule out the possibility that the cause of the whining is actually on the graphics card, it will have several switching regulators on board and a failed 'phase' in a multiphase switching converter or failing capacitors can make inductors 'sing'.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:40:39 am
content: QuotePerhaps because your average non-guru doesn't know they're the OEM for whatever brand they see pushed in their face when they go on Amazon or wherever. I've been building my own (and clients) PCs for some time and FSP and Seasonic are new names to me. Doubtless there are CPU heatsink players who I've never heard of that supply the brands I buy from. It's a moving market and not easy to tell who is making what, or whose reputation someone else is playing off.Further, unless you're personally testing every PSU available and tracing the source of every part, I don't believe you're in much of a better boat than the brand buyer - you are still going from other peoples opinions and the suppliers blurb, just maybe not paying as much. At least most brands have a reputation to lose. OEMs don't so much.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:08:51 am
content: QuoteFrom a brand name, the price is going to almost always be more than from the OEM, so whilst you may have a point there it's not really applicable to the comment to which I commented (which is about skipping the middleman).

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:31:02 am
content: Jonnyguru is the place to go for PSU reviews.I think Delta was the only supplier for Dell, not sure if that is the case now. Very reputable name for server PSU units, but bellow high end segment their PSU quality varies.Although you could find many rebrands of Seasonic, even there are some differences, for example soldering quality, or cooler choices.Never seen a bad job by Seasonic or Super Flower in mid range segment.My current PSU is an EVGA's rebrand of the Seasonic, since the specific ss was not available locally at the moment of purchase.Bottom line, don't go for a brand, it makes no sense, check the specific model for reviews.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:52:12 am
content: Quote from: BBBbbb on May 16, 2017, 07:31:02 am+1

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 07:54:36 am
content: The other thing to consider is the time of operation.If you want a 24/7 server/pc you have other requirements than if you have a pc that runs 3 hours a day on average.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 08:00:59 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 16, 2017, 06:12:07 amIf you have only one computer, yeah skip the recapping and buy new. I am maintaining what is equivalent to a small IT department and cost is a real problem. Recapping those does save me significant $$$ when even older PSUs die. (Caps usually die first.)

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 04:14:31 pm
content: Seasonic / Corsair only for me..they are not expensive and they are high quality. what more could you ask for the home gamer?yes, there is antec and there is EVGA and there is many but most of them are the same price compare to seasonic or corsair so I rather take them.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 04:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on May 16, 2017, 04:14:31 pmBe very very careful with this recommendation. E.g. Corsair has a plenty of crappy supplies, sadly - e.g. the CX and CS series. Their lower end series are basically rebrands of cheapies made by someone else. The same applies to Antec, EVGA and other brands - there are huge differences in construction between their high-end (expensive) series and their low end ones. So buying by brand name doesn't work anymore.The only way how to avoid buying a lemon even from a major brand is to carefully check the reviews for your exact model you want to buy. And even then you can be sure that the supply will use cheap capacitors, for example, even for the expensive higher-end series - the supply is essentially a consumable, it is meant to last 2-3 years and expected to be thrown away afterwards because the PC will be obsolete by then and replaced. Our sad disposable cultureA good guide is also here:https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/406160-psu-ranking-and-tiers/

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 06:45:51 pm
content: New PSU is in. No more coil whine whatsoever. Let's see if it can handle a stable 12 hours of BOINC on full CPU and GPU

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 08:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on May 16, 2017, 04:35:17 pmThanks, lesson learned..I noticed that seasonics PSU are only on tier 1 and tier 2. I'll stick to them as much as I can.funny story, my grandma got like 100W ultra cheap crappy power supply, that still works after at least 7 years. she use her PC daily.no graphics card, I3 processors, not high loads, only internet. maybe because of that.

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:56:31 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 16, 2017, 06:45:51 pmWhat PSU did you get?Thanks...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on May 16, 2017, 08:23:27 pmYes, that works - the supply will most often die because of crappy capacitors that dry out. That is accelerated by heat.The more load you put on the supply, the more heat gets produced and the shorter the life of that supply will be. So if you buy a cheapie 700W supply even though your machine needs only 300W, it will likely last much longer than a 400-500W brand name that would be loaded much closer to their limits (also not all supplies are actually capable of their rated output!).

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:36:14 pm
content: Long live the polymer capacitors !

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 15, 2017, 01:50:48 amNone of them are actual manufacturers, nothing more than putting their label on. Quality varies as well, as one brand may sell PSUs from different ODMs.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:47:23 pm
content: When i was still building machines ( i stopped since intel doesn't make motherboards anymore)- Antec power supplies- Antec Cases- Intel motherboards ( intel made )- Pny graphics card- keyboard mouse Logitech- HDD Western digital blacks- optical drives : LG- memory : Micron or Samsung ( made by them , not just the chips )and absolutely never ever anything with chips made by VIA on them !

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 10:13:57 pm
content: I never cared for Intel motherboards myself, they always seemed quite limited compared to much of the competition. We had a hardware guru at one place I worked who was constantly buying and playing with different hardware. He kept a list of recommended builds and I never went wrong by following one of his recipes.

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:14:54 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 17, 2017, 09:47:23 pmWow, you've matched most the components of my present PC!? Antec power supply? Antec Case? Intel motherboard ( intel made )- AMD GPU-/? keyboard mouse Logitech: Just switched my Logitech K350 keyboard to a Corsair K95 2 days ago, still use a Logitech G502 mouse? HDD Western digital blacks? optical drives : LG? memory : Not sure on the memory

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:34:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 17, 2017, 10:13:57 pmI've been running my Intel DZ68DB motherboard for 6 years now--for most of that time, 24/7--with an i7-2600K without a problem.Of course there are those who may have experienced issues; I'm simply saying my board has performed well over the years. No, it's not a great overclocking board, but I chose Intel for reliability and haven't been let down in that area.It's getting pretty long in the tooth now and I am looking at a replacement scenario, but it's still working.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 02:57:25 pm
content: Quote from: Testing123 on May 18, 2017, 11:34:12 amIntel boards are mostly bought for stability, not for performance or features. If someone is going to have new chipset issues sorted out, it is likely going to be Intel and not 3rd-party OEMs. Some recent examples of this were some SATA chipsets and USB 3.0 support. Many OEMs used chips from VIA which weren't mature but were available/cheaper - with performance and stability problems. Or had buggy support for the Intel chipsets and the boards required BIOS updates fresh out of the store.That doesn't mean that others won't make good boards but if you are buying something bleeding edge, then buying Intel tends to be betting on stability. It usually takes a bit of time for the rest of the pack to catch up and sort out the various teething problems.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 03:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 17, 2017, 10:13:57 pmINTEL BOARDS ARE STABLE. No such muckery as overclocking and other nonsense. Stick on a cpu , keep the bios up to date and intel boards will run almost forever. they also don;t cut corners in capacitors or inductors or integrated circuits. you will not find one-hung-lo passives or ping-wong-pang IC's.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 09:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on May 18, 2017, 03:18:37 pmNeither with Asus if you at least buy the premium and not the lowcost version of motherboards.I never had any issue for the last 25 years with their boards.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 10:46:06 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on May 18, 2017, 09:17:15 pmThe more premium you pay for Asus or some other consumer mobo, the more ridiculous it gets. All sorts of stupid bells and whistles which can only reduce reliability, like freaking LED lighting through GND separation from the opposite side of the PCB, RGB led connectors, water pump connectors. Bought this stupid thing (Prime x370 PRO) a week ago. On attaching power (even without switching on), shines and changes colors like rainbow. Overpaid for this because you cannot get a decent B350 board with optical SPDIF output (even internal SPDIF header is a problem). My other Asus board was even more expensive and even more ridiculous (bought used so did not pay $300 of it's retail cost). At the same time, these bastards cannot implement HDD password in 99% of their boards(which I would actually use and would cost them nothing). But why then you bother with adding TPM connector FFS? So I cannot use hardware encryption on my SSD, only software. Oh, and Gigabyte, every single board I ever had gave me some sort of headache, be it cheap or $230 mobo.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 10:57:45 pm
content: You see, I don't have that problem. My motherboard is the cheapest Z91 board Newegg had. It's by MSI.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:02:36 pm
content: Yeah the rgb stuff is for the young gaming gurus showing off their build on some event. You can just disable it with the software or what I did let it reflect the temperature, green below 40C orange below 70C red above 70C.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:08:58 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on May 18, 2017, 11:02:36 pmNo, I think RGB is pretty cool if done right, but it's more for the person designing their own case setup, than OH LOOK I SPEND 200 DOLLARS ON A LIGHT UP MOTHERBOARD, PRAISE ME kinda people.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on May 18, 2017, 11:02:36 pmWhat annoys me is that I'm forced to pay for this crap. And I don't see it in the case anyway because I don't buy transparent cases. In any case, I prefer to look on the monitor, not rainbow under my desk.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:14:17 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 18, 2017, 11:09:50 pmIf you really want no thrills gear, buy workstation boards. They are about the same, but are built to be more robust, and no nonsense. Also they support both i3/5/7s and Xeons.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:15:08 pm
content: I hear you but the same goes for other things like tvs , i only want a monitor not a complete os with internet connectivity etc, or a car, i want something that drives me from a to b not a internet connected media spectacle that drives it self etc. Etc.The motherboard manufacturers have a hard time, sales are down and (almost) the only people left that buy and built desktop pcs are the gaming guys and girls. At least that is their target market. If you want a really good motherboard without those lights and whistles check out the brand Supermicro, they build pro boards, very expensive but top notch.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 18, 2017, 11:14:17 pmI run Ryzen with ECC RAM which seem to be somewhat functional.QuoteBut you pay through the nose for the lack of nonsense.

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on May 18, 2017, 02:57:25 pmThat's exactly why I purchased mine.

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2017, 11:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on May 18, 2017, 09:17:15 pmCheck out ASUS' reputation with their X99 (LGA 2011-v3) boards (yes, even their premium boards). Although I'd say other companies have had issues with X99 systems as well.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 12:11:23 am
content: Pretty much every company has had a few turds. I wrote off Intel boards back during the RDRAM fiasco and never really looked back. I haven't kept track of what others I've had, I remember an Abit BH6 that was rock solid though, I used it for years and then passed it on to my mom and she used it for a few years until it was finally retired of old age. Still worked fine.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 12:20:37 am
content: As a 15 year old it's strange for me to say this, but I like A-BIT. I am a collector of older computers, and I do have an A-BIT board. I heard some of their Slot A offerings were a bit bad on the caps, but their later Socket A boards were and still are pretty damn good.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 12:32:50 am
content: Virtually all boards had bad caps for a while in the early 2000's, it was a huge fiasco. I repaired a lot of stuff, including motherboards.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 12:43:05 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 19, 2017, 12:32:50 amIntel didn't. That's why if you go on Ebay looking for Slot 1 board, you won't find much else other than Intel boards.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 12:54:09 am
content: Quote from: Testing123 on May 18, 2017, 11:44:30 pmI'll take stability over extra features anyday. Who wants to mess around with overclocking and system lock-ups?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 01:09:45 am
content: Millions of people want to mess around with overclocking, not so much with lockups. I ran modestly overclocked systems for ~15 years with no issues at all. The Abit board I mentioned was bought to run a PII-300 at 450MHz and that's the one I used for years then my mom used it for several more years, it was always rock solid. Prior to my current i7 I had a Pentium4 that I ran overclocked for almost a decade, it was also rock solid. You only start to have problems if you go crazy and try to overclock to the limit.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 01:47:05 am
content: The last time I fooled around with overclocking was a Celeron Slot1... LOL !!!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 08:52:50 am
content: I've seen some posts on here criticising TwoOfFive for his choices and words. I don't think that's very supportive.It's clear the OP has learnt some valuable lessons and good on him! I don't necessarily agree on his choice of components (for example, I've had terrible results with ThermalTake power supplies... never again) but he's a young bloke who is keen to learn. We were all in his position once. I can honestly stick my hand up and say I bought some terrible gear when I was learning.You see computer shops everywhere and read people who assert to be "in the IT industry" who indirectly try to pass their advice as "expert" all the time.My opinion (as anactualexpert "in the field") is this:- If you want a computer that works right out of the box, is compatible with your devices and you don't want to muck around, then buy an Apple and enjoy (although you'll pay a premium and be locked into their "ecosystem").- If you want to buy a budget computer for the minimum amount of money, expect problems, stability issues and/or a relatively short product life.- If you want to get the best for your money, spend a little more but buy the best components you can and carefully research what is compatible with what. Try to find out what individual components the product is made up of and where they come from, don't just rely on a brand name. Talk to experts (not just your local computer store) and people who have a lot of genuine experience in the field. That's not to say everyone who works in a retail computer store is a dummy, but people who know what they are talking about are few and far between.For me, there are some brands I've relied on since the 1990's and they've never let me down to this day (such as Supermicro). But that said, it's important not to be "brand loyal", research each new component from scratch, don't just rely on their reputation. Brands sometimes get bought out or amalgamated with other companies and quality can slip. Be flexible and prepared to change your opinion on things.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 09:03:21 pm
content: I've been using off-lease Dell desktops (and a few laptops) for years with quite excellent results. A couple years ago i realized my main desktop had been in use for TWELVE years and decided to upgrade, before something died. It is still at my mother-in-law's house, still working. Got another relatively recent Dell i5 system on eBay. I've found these to be really reliable. (They did suffer from the capacitor plague about 15 years ago, too. I recapped a bunch of them at work.) I run Linux exclusively here.Jon

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2017, 10:50:25 pm
content: Who says I'm a bloke?jk

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:03:10 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 19, 2017, 10:50:25 pmWell, with a name like Konrad, one makes an assumption that you're male. Then again, you couldidentifyas a female, that's also a possibility.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:14:04 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 19, 2017, 09:03:21 pmYes, they're reliable but tend to use terrible motherboards when it comes to making any upgrades. Their business model was always "when lease ends, replace with new machines". And sometimes really strange choice of parts, once I've been working in a place using around 100 Dell computers of various vintage and ended up digging at my private attic for old shitty RTL8139 network card because not a single one PC had network interface compatible with ESXi (virtualization platform, supports zillion different NICs) so I could do a test deployment before going live.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 07:30:09 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on May 21, 2017, 07:03:10 amLOL

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 02:58:39 pm
content: Out of curiosity, how do you know my name?I don't mind, but I am just want to know where I posted it...

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 03:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 21, 2017, 02:58:39 pmI'm guessing, but this looks like a candidate...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/an-oscilloscope-please!/msg1196589/#msg1196589

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 04:02:35 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 21, 2017, 02:58:39 pmQuote from: MK14 on May 21, 2017, 03:13:11 pm

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 08:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on May 21, 2017, 02:58:39 pmYour very first post on the forum. :-) Nothing sinister going on here...

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 09:10:28 pm
content: You've been stalking me that long?loljk.