Analog vs Digital:  A newbie scope question - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2024, 12:50:45 pm
content: I cannot answer why, but I decided to play with my 2 channel AWG and got to sweep. Both channels set exactly the same.While I can easily display multiple traces on my Siglent 1204xe, the sweep function throws it off. I can only display the expanding and contracting trace on one channel at a time. Get hash on the other. Have to switch the trigger coupling for each channel. Makes no difference if I use auto setup. I get something if I switch to AC trigger, but the traces cannot be stretched into something interpretable.I stayed up very late trying to understand this.When I set each AWG to a different function and frequency differences of 100 or 1000X, I get stable dual traces.The Kikusui analog displays perfectly and very easily.I have no idea why this ability may be important but I would like to learn if I am doing something wrong or if this is a limitation. FWIW, occasionally the Siglent display would lock up as I switched trigger coupling.Would post videos, but unsure that is permitted.THANKS!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2024, 01:28:14 pm
content: Could be either the 2 channels in the AWG are not synchronous, or an artifact from the digital scope (like aliasing, or screen remanence, hard to say without seeing). A video would be too long to upload on EEVblog, upload the video on youtube then post the link here, or upload the video on a free file-sharing platform.1. - Is the analog scope on Chop or Alternate mode?2. - Does the analog scope still shows both channels in sync when you switch the oscilloscope to chopped mode?3. - What does the digital scope shows after you take a Single Sweep (press single, or stop, don't know the front panel of Siglent)?

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2024, 10:33:31 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on January 06, 2024, 01:28:14 pmTHANKS. You tube link at end. I wrote a description to follow the video (1 minute).When I do a single trigger on the Siglent, I get the snapshot of the traces, but it looks sample limited. I used two different funcntions to prove the AWG is sending two independent outputs. The shot of the Kikusui proves that the sweeps from both outputs are the same.The shots of Siglent show the two channel sweeps for trigger via Ch 1, CH 2 and AC.I am wondering if the Siglent processor is overloaded? Far more likely I am not setting it up right though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2024, 11:03:04 pm
content: Chances are your scope halves the maximum sample rate when using channels 1 and 2 (or 3 and 4). Try using channels 1 and 3, or 2 and 4 and see if it makes any difference.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2024, 11:16:10 pm
content: It's clear looking at the traces on the Kikusui that the frequencies of the signals are not equal. Why that is or what is going on with your AWG, IDK. The Kikusui can trigger on both of the signals in sequence, thus getting a stable trace for each despite the different frequencies. The Siglent (and almost all modern DSOs) does not have alternate trigger and the trigger function can only be derived from one channel at a time. Any time you have two signals that are not either the same frequency or even multiples of each other, the non-triggered channel will be starting each trace at essentially a random point so they'll all overlay and make the 'hash' you are seeing.The workaround for a DSO is to use the SINGLE button and just capture one screen of data, then you'll be able to see both traces clearly. However, you won't be able to watch the signal change smoothly like you can on the analog CRO.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:22:21 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2024, 11:03:04 pmTooki,Ch 1 and Ch 3 do the same. I do not think it can handle the processing.As for the "observation" that the signals are not the same, one is in fact a square wave and the other is a sine. Perhaps was confused by the fact that the signals were started at two different points in time. Did not see that as an issue related to my observation. I will ask Tautech to take a look.Yes, I already figured out a workaround is to trigger off one channel then the other, as shown in the video. But the questions are" is there a more elegant solution? and, Is this an issue with digital scopes generally?Regards,Dewey

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:31:12 am
content: I did a very quick test with my dinky Rigol digital scope (the venerable DS1054Z) and it behaved like your Kikusui. My hunch is something is misconfigured with the Siglent, because it shouldn’t have any trouble doing what you’re asking it to do (it being a fundamentally better scope than my Rigol.) It certainly is capable of the “processing” of this, easily.If you reset it to the defaults by pressing the Default button, does it make any difference?

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:37:03 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 07, 2024, 12:31:12 amThanks Tooki. Will try in the AM.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:47:04 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 07, 2024, 12:22:21 amIf you start your sweeps at two different points in time, then the frequency of each channel will be different at any particular point in time. You can see on your Kikusui scope that there are different numbers of square waves than there are sine waves. This is the whole issue and it is a simple, well-known issue resulting from the lack of an alternate trigger function. Try setting your Kikusui to only trigger on one channel and you'll see the same thing.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:47:15 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 06, 2024, 11:16:10 pmYea I agree with you on this. I can try it on my Siglent SDS2202X-E (not the same Siglent scope of course) tomorrow but I know it'll work, provided the two sigs are the same or exact multiples of the other.Quote from: tooki on January 07, 2024, 12:31:12 amAnd to acknowledge Tooki I've done the same on my DS1054Z also in the past and it works.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 12:49:59 am
content: Not near gear for another week.Experiment with Digital triggers and a AND function.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 02:42:45 am
content: An analog scope fundamentally displays one trace at a time (more correctly, one dot/spot at a time). In order to display two channels you have two choices: either display them one after the other (alt mode), or switch very quickly between them so as to give the illusion of two separate traces (chop mode). The important thing is that for alt mode, the scope can usually be set to trigger on each channel as its trace is being displayed (on my Tek scope, trigger source "vert"). This gives a stable triggered display of two uncorrelated signals, which is something most digital scopes won't do, since they capture both/all channels simultaneously, rather than alternately.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 02:59:09 am
content: Your analog oscilloscope is using its vertical trigger source which only very old DSOs, and a very few modern ones support. The vertical trigger source is picked off after the vertical channel switch, meaning that in alternate mode, the trigger source is the currently displayed channel. On a DSO this might be called alternate triggering.The result is that an analog oscilloscope in alternate mode can trigger off of two completely independent signals, like a dual beam oscilloscope could do. It is like having two independent oscilloscopes with a shared sweep speed, but not a shared sweep.Change the trigger source to channel 1 or channel 2 instead of VERT to get the same result.

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 03:37:11 am
content: What you have experienced with your digital scope is one of the reasons I hang on to my SC-504 80MHz Tektronix modular scope. It has a position that triggers alternately along with the alternating sweep mode. Of course you can't use that trigger mode when vertical is set to chop mode. I find that older pure analog scopes also produce a much more pleasing display of amplitude modulation. Digital scopes get weird with aliasing the R.F. when running at slow sweep speeds to observe the audio component. I have the SC-504, SC-501, TDS-644B, TDS2004B and an old storage scope 5441 with two dual trace vertical modules, the delayed timebase and on-screen display. Tried to sell the storage scope for $50 at a hamfest and no one even looked at it.

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 07:16:25 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 07, 2024, 12:22:21 amThe DSO will always show the traces in sync.The analog scope is basically showing a lie. It is pretending that the two traces were taken in the same time window. But actually there is a delay between the two. First it triggers on one trace and shows that. Then we have a wait until it can trigger on the second trace. Both are shown as if they had a trigger event at the same time. It means you have no idea how long delay there is from events shown on one trace to the other trace.Technically there would be nothing stopping a DSO from have a function to do the same. But apparently it is not that useful since very few modern DSO have that ability. Instead the DSO can only show "truth" in that the traces on screen will be from the exact same captured time window. When you do that, there is no way to have both traces in sync unless the two traces are actually synchronized somehow (ie. to a clock).The solution, as you figured, is to press the single button and freeze the capture. You can also use the zoom function to record a longer section if it and then zoom after the freeze.It has nothing to do with processing power or any of that. The DSO is working exactly as it should be. It simply does not have the exact equivalent of the "alternate" trigger of the analog scope.

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 07:39:57 am
content: Quote from: CaptDon on January 07, 2024, 03:37:11 amI think RF aliasing is a problem with vintage DSOs. Not so much modern DSO. It makes a difference when the sample rate is in giga samples per second and memory depth hundreds of megapoints. Also you have peak detect that allows the DSO to sample at full speed even when it will only store a fraction of the samples, reducing any aliasing.Here is a picture of my DSO showing a 100 MHz modulated by 1 KHz AM. How nice to see both the 1 KHz modulation and the 100 MHz wave at the same time:

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 08:30:41 am
content: Quote from: CaptDon on January 07, 2024, 03:37:11 amTektronix recognized that problem so their later analog oscilloscopes use a separate channel switch for their trigger, and in chop mode, the vertical trigger source comes from the two channels added together which still usually works.Their oldest DSOs support add and chop mode for digital storage, so have no problem displaying unrelated waveforms as a DSO. In chop mode they operate like a modern DSO with simultaneous sampling.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 10:02:30 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on January 06, 2024, 11:16:10 pmThere are two 'problems' going on here:1) Persistence, which displays multiple acquisitions of a trace at the same time.2) Two signals with a different frequency.As others have already noted point 2 requires an oscilloscope which supports alternate triggering so 2 (or more) signals with an unrelated frequency can be shown stable at the same time. (GW Instek DSOs have this feature).On DSOs which don't have alternate trigger, it can help to set the trigger hold-off time to a large value. Like >200ms. But make sure persistence is off and the trigger mode is normal.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 02:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 07, 2024, 12:31:12 amTooki,You hit the nail on the head. Thank you. Did a factory reset with the result shown.I failed to understand explanations that relied disparities between the signals. As demonstrated, they are out of sync and of different types. I was dissatisfied with those explanations because it would seem to negate the use of the scope for tracking signal changes with multiple channels. Please, those who offered help do not take this as criticism. I simply am too inexperienced with digital stuff to follow your reasoning.I do not see anything faulty with AWG.Tooki, maybe you, or Tautech (when he gets back from a well deserved vacation) can help me understand what setting I could have changed to get this final result. I am clueless at this point. The analog is certainly "easier" for me to control at this point.

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 02:55:00 pm
content: A scope operator needs to be aware of what may be represented as a lie, however, if the signal is repetitive such as a clock signal we can observe the input to a gate on channel 1, set the scope to only trigger from channel 1, and observe the apparent gate delay displayed on channel 2 when the next trigger occurs using the vertical ALT mode. Granted, we are observing non-simultaneous events but this is how we did measurements on 'dual trace' scopes since probably the mid 60's. Although somewhat rare due to initial cost, the problem was solved with 'dual-beam' scopes where the C.R.T. had two guns and two totally independent vertical amplifiers. The horizontal signal (timebase) had to be carefully applied and calibrated in position and amplitude to both guns to make time alignment between both vertical traces relevant and accurate. I had the joy of playing with a true quad-beam scope that could do amazing things with its delayed timebase split between beams!! Waterman made (and I owned one bought at a hamfest) a scope with 2 C.R.T.'s!!! They were similar to the 3XP1 C.R.T. at roughly 1.5" high X 3" wide with both C.R.T.'s physically together in one bezel! It would certainly display two simultaneous events. It is sad that due to aging components and cost of calibration and repairs that most of the really wild and thinking outside the box scopes that were special built for the military where cost was no object have been scrapped and destroyed. The technology to display GHz signals on analog scopes existed in the late 60's but it wasn't cheap!!!

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 03:04:50 pm
content: Do any of you U.S. folks remember 'Surplus Al' who used to frequent the East Coast hamfests including Dayton? He surely had some of the strangest electronic devices built for the military, N.A.S.A. and our 'secret' agencies. The Nems Clarke R1037 receivers!!!!! Or how about the 'Mason' spy receiver in a wooden box? I bought a lot of stuff from Al over the years. He was a true electronics gypsy!! I loved to hear him bitch and moan when someone wanted to haggle a price with him!! The big yellow Ryder truck!! Cheers mates!!

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 03:39:37 pm
content: Quote from: CaptDon on January 07, 2024, 02:55:00 pmIndeed. The Service manual for the Cos 5060 (the only one I can find, there are TWO models of COS 5100 (no TM)) makes this very clear, several times. When Trigger source is set to internal, and Internal trigger is set Vert Mode (no idea what Vert means) it WILL trigger off oth channels independently.Very handy and easy to understand. I like things I can SEE! I am sure this is related to my move into watch restoration from the early pursuit of electronics.To tell on myself: For our training in Switz., we had to spend 3 days (out of 9 months) on quartz; Eta chronograph. It did not count toward certification (thankfully). I handed mine back in completely nonfunctional. Funny old world. The "kids" told me how easy it is to make money with quartz ($125 for complete teardown and rebuild time of 30 minutes) but I just did not like em.This has been an intellectual challenge; but it is fun and better than watching TV, random streaming, doing crossword puzzles or playing golf. Trying to avoid dementia!Thanks to all.

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 04:10:39 pm
content: I don't know if it still exists but in Columbia Pennsylvania near the Susquehanna River there is a watch and clock museum. I think that area was home to Bulova or one of the premium watches of the day. I was never in the museum although lived very near to it. I had heard tell they may have built one of the first 'NIXIE' watches having only two digits and displaying time in sequential pairs of numbers. Check it out online. May be worth visiting if you are ever in the area.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 04:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: CaptDon on January 07, 2024, 04:10:39 pmYes, well worth it. Also one of the better reference libraries. Staff are very helpful.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 05:01:34 pm
content: Quote from: CaptDon on January 07, 2024, 02:55:00 pmDual beam was rather useful in storage scopes capturing fast single-shot events. Obviously ALT mode would have been useless, and CHOP mode would have chopped up the signals (duh!).I have one such dual-beam scope (Telequipment DM63) with three channels (one dual channel plugin, one single channel plugin), all the manuals and extender cards. To my surprise, it actually works rather nicely, unlike most analogue storage scopes.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2024, 06:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2024, 05:01:34 pmKeep in mind that there are two different types of dual beam oscilloscopes.Most dual beam oscilloscopes have dual electron guns and vertical deflection plates, but a single set of horizontal deflection plates so both beams use the same sweep. This duplicates vertical chop mode on a single beam oscilloscope. These oscilloscopes would have the same problem trying to show two unrelated signals except when a single sweep is used.Some dual beam oscilloscopes, like the Tektronix 7844, also have separate horizontal deflection plates, so the two beams are completely independent and there are effectively two independent oscilloscopes sharing the same display. Each beam of a 7844 can be assigned to either of the two timebases and may be triggered completely separately.The 4-bay Tektronix 7000 mainframes also support horizontal chopping for an "independent pairs mode", where one vertical amplifier uses one timebase and the other vertical amplifier uses the other timebase. This allows a single beam oscilloscope to simulate the operation of a dual beam oscilloscope like the 7844.

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 11:47:37 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 07, 2024, 02:36:36 pmIn case it is not clear: Tooki did not get the same result using his Rigol DS1054Z for the simple reason that the Rigol is not able to do alt triggering either. Therefore we can conclude that his setup was not the same as yours.You may be dissatisfied but fact is that modern DSO do not have the same ability as the old analog scopes to do alt triggering. As to why I don't know. It would be easy enough for them to implement. My conclusion is that there is no marked demand for such a feature. Otherwise they would have implemented it.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 05:08:35 pm
content: Huh?My post #18 shows that I got the same result as Tooki by resetting the Siglent to factory default as he suggested. This means his Rigol and my Siglent both were able to deal with sweep signals that differed by function and start time, same result as with the analog scope.All three scopes had the same result.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 05:53:19 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 05:08:35 pmtookididn't post a video and if his AWG sweeps were in sync, his screen probably looked more like your Kikusui.In your video you do see points where one or the other waveform is relatively clear for a moment, but I'm not sure how useful that is. The reason this is happening is because you have selected line triggering (which isn't the factory default) and thus every time one or the other of the two frequencies happens to be very close to a multiple of 60Hz the signal will appear to be stable for a moment before it drifts away again. Using line trigger is a handy trick to deal with unknown signals that you are having trouble pinning down, but you still don't have a stable trigger point on both signals simultaneously as you do with the Kikusui and ALT trigger.I think it's been mentioned already, but the ALT trigger function can be deceptive because it can show two signals that appear to be synced perfectly when they actually aren't--unlike a DSO, the two traces on the screen are not contemporaneous.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 06:16:18 pm
content: Personally, I think you are all wet.Here is a video showing the Siglent with different sweeps, different functions and different start times. No sweat using AC triggers. I included several single trigger shots in the video. All of which I believe you said was not possible on a DSO. If I misundersand your comments, please do highlight your original comment with a notation of how I misunderstood.As for Tooki, I never said he posted a video. (putting words in my mouth???). ISAIDhe was correct that I needed to reset the Siglent to factory default.Note: this video was done before the above post and was/is intended to close the loop onMYquestion about the differences between the traces displayed on an Analog vs the Siglent when two different sweep functions were to be displayed.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 06:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 06:16:18 pmIDK how you can look at that jumbled mess and conclude that it is somehow useful, let alone being equivalent to the clear, stable signals shown on your Kikusui in your first video. The only time you have a stable trace on the screen is when you use the single shot mode, which is what I suggested in my first reply. But if you think those displays are useable for some purpose, I won't argue.As fortooki, the reason I pointed out that he hadn't posted a video is that you seem to think that he was looking at something like what you are posting here and I don't think that is the case since he didn't mention the unsynchronized sweeps that are at the heart of the matter. But perhaps he can clear that up if he wishes to.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 07:00:56 pm
content: Once again, you are trying to respond to a question youWANTEDme to ask rather than the question I actuallyDIDask.No one asked about interpretation. Just the difference in display between the analog and DSO.But thank you for confirming that I can send your posts to the bit bucket for now on.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 07:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 07:00:56 pmI don't have a burning desire for you to ask me any particular question, but does not your very first post specifically refer to "stable dual traces"? Isn't that what you were initially after--stable dual traces like the Kikusui was able to display? If that wasn't what you were asking, then I guess I indeed missed the point and answered the wrong question.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 07:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 06:16:18 pmNot a way to encourage people to help you in the future.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 08:36:45 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 07:00:56 pmI seem to remember reading about something similar to this on a DSO. Don't remember the model. But it was something about a syncing bug I think. Try starting your sweep at a lower frequency or start the frequency low and go up.Not sure but might be worth a try.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 03:43:02 am
content: Quote from: Jwillis on January 08, 2024, 08:36:45 pmThere have been numerous discussions previously about the ALT trigger function. DSO proponents would claim that there were adequate workarounds, but IMO those were illusory--they only worked under specific, contrived situations. The fact is that there's no easy universal alternative to ALT trigger for live viewing and there won't be on DSOs that have a digital trigger than cannot be configured to look at multiple channels. The reason this isn't a bigger issue is that the ALT trigger function doesn't really have that many uses, at least not those that can't be substituted for. Some, yes, but apparently not enough to convince many DSO manufacturers to include the capability.I pulled some relics from under my bench and made two YouTube videos. The first is the same CRO and DSO the OP has, set up with what I think are the same unsynced sweeps. I used two different AWGs, so I'm sure they aren't synced! The CRO took no effort to set up as shown, but I did my very best to get a useable display on the DSO. I tookntnico'ssuggestion and used an ultra-long holdoff to slow down the update rate. I used line trigger so both traces are equally bad, but you could trigger on one and just let the other one suffer. The problems with this are that it still looks pretty herky-jerky and that you have to dial in just the right amount of holdoff to get it to even look that good.https://youtu.be/C3kZGhJ6Va0In the second video, I'm using a DSO that actually has an ALT trigger function. The key to getting stable display of any waveform is to be able to trigger at the same point in the waveform each time. Unfortunately YouTube compressed my video a bit too much, but if you look you can see how stable the trigger points are on these scopes--the Kikusui "wave-spring" is nicely anchored on the left side, the little "T" marks on the Tek 2221A are right at the positive transition. The ability to trigger is what propelled newcomer Tek to the lead in the scope marketplace almost overnight. Without a trigger on both waveforms, they just aren't going to be reliably stable.https://youtube.com/shorts/ZMwbvXGYxSs

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 04:32:52 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 08, 2024, 05:08:35 pmClearly not the same result and the difference is how you are triggering. I don't get why you apparently get mad about that. Calling people wet and whatnot. I may indeed be wet, but some very knowledgeable people have given good information about the ALT trigger. The thing that allows your analog scope to show two stable traces of unrelated frequencies. Something your (and mine) DSO can not do (other than freezing the capture).Usually the purpose of starting a thread with a question is to learn. Sadly it appears you have ignored most of the good information in this thread. I suggest reading it all again with an open mind and try to grasp what the ALT trigger is and then explore the different triggering options on the DSO. Understand when it is impossible to have a stable dual trace with triggering on only one channel. And understand when it is possible (the frequency of the two channels need to be related in some way).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 09:18:13 am
content: Quote from: baldurn on January 09, 2024, 04:32:52 amPrecisely.Another prolific (and irritating) poster on this forum can't be bothered to use google and seems to be mainly interested in having confirmation of his statements. "Do you think..." is a frequent phrase he uses

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 10:21:27 am
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_LessonDo you risk sounding absurd? Beginners and experts.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 12:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 09, 2024, 09:18:13 amYou must be thinking of someone else. PLease provide data if you think you are correct.Interesting how so many people read my question and provided information that led to my understanding of the issue. As far as Google searches go, look at this list of resources I mention on the Primer thread.The main issue with this board is that it left to the poster to determine the authority of the poster. In my working life the first thing I did when reading research was to assess the past work of the author. The number of publications was not a good measure.Frauds with dozens of peer reviewed pubs have even been Knighted and screwed up research for decades.So, when someone repeatedly does not directly to my questions despite my patient inquiries, I dismiss them.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 12:49:39 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 09, 2024, 12:42:29 pmFair call.I too have been involved in the timber industry, mainly on the service side but still regularly wield a saw of which I have a few.PM if you like.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 01:13:15 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 09, 2024, 12:42:29 pmCorrect; it is another user. Searching for the phrase I mentioned will lead to zero surprises.I'm not the only person to note that you call people "wet", and think that is inappropriate.All other forums and comms mechanisms require the reader to "determine the authority of the poster". What makes you think this board is any different?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 03:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on January 09, 2024, 12:42:29 pmNot really, IMO it is left to the reader. Thus even though I provided concise, correct and responsive answers to your questions in my first reply, you are entirely free to 'dismiss' them.QuoteI would start with the actual content of the paper that I was trying to analyze. If I have to resort to secondary indicia of reliability, that just means that I'm not actually able to understand the subject matter presented.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 12:13:56 am
content: Quote from: baldurn on January 08, 2024, 11:47:37 amAh crap, you’re right.I was tired when I first read the thread and thought it meant using two synchronized outputs. But yeah, with two completely independently clocked signals, my lil Rigol wouldn’t be able to show anything useful. (The R&S and LeCroy scopes I have at work could, if I’m not mistaken.)