HPAK Frequency Counters 53132A, 53131A, 53181A - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 04:42:54 am
content: Too many random threads, and nothing centralized for these, so, here.Anyway, I'm messing around with my new to me 53132A, and I'm curious about alternative methods for the fine time base calibration.To do that, they want to connect a pulse generator to a time interval calibrator, into ch1 and ch2 of the frequency counter. Details are on page 119 - 120 of the attached service guide.QuoteCould we fake it with a 2 channel AWG, with the channels synced?Thanks,Josh

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 05:06:11 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 11, 2025, 04:42:54 amHave a look here, describes the "59992A J06" functionshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-hp-j06-59992a-or-making-two-10mhz-square-waves-for-hp-531312-adjustment/I have written TP (Below), but no answer on buying a DIY cal thingy.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/calibrating-53132a/msg1307510/#msg1307510https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/calibrating-53132a/msg1320898/#msg1320898Btw: I'd like to be able to do a "Home cal too", but wont buy a 59992A J06 ... Just for that

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 05:47:53 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 11, 2025, 04:42:54 amIf the phase noise of the AWG is low enough (as low as the 8130A) I'd give it a try. The phase between the channels will need to be able to be set to the intervals requested by the 53132. Might be fun to try.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 07:31:23 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 11, 2025, 04:42:54 amThat's exactly what I did using my SDG2042X.You just have to set it up according to the service manual and then flip the channels.I would have to re-read the process to elaborate on the exact steps (it's been a while since I did it).

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 09:28:58 am
content: I did this adjustment step with my 2-channel HP 8160A 50MHz pulse generator. The 53132A passed cal with no issues.As long as the phase difference is spot-on 180 degrees between the two channels, you can do the cal with some BNC cables and T joiners to swap the signals around without too much trouble.I think that step is just comparing the phase difference between the two channels in the counter, and you have to flip the signals so the counter can cancel out any remaining difference in the supplied signal.I don't think the actual frequency or amplitude is the critical factor here? The counter is just looking at the rising and falling edges I believe.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 04:44:50 pm
content: So, I should be able to setup the SDG2122X with one channel flipped, sync and/or match the phase on my scope, and I should be able to do it?I'll try. Sounds fun.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 04:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on July 11, 2025, 05:06:11 amJust adding what looks like the important part:Quote from: TERRA Operative on November 19, 2023, 03:20:05 pm

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 05:02:46 pm
content: Well, that turned out to be easy. Thanks for the guidance!I set the SDG2122X with synced 10MHz 1Vpp square waves using the GPSDO as an external clock ref, and checked how they looked on the scope normal and inverted.Then I did the normal test for step 1.Then I swapped the input cables for step 2.Then I inverted the signal on the SDG, and swapped the input cables back to normal for step 3.Then swapped the input cables again for step 4.Each step was quick, just a few seconds or so.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 06:21:23 pm
content: Yup, I was worried about Siglent not being good enough, but after doing some calculations decided to give it a shot.Turns out it was more than good enough for the job

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 09:28:20 pm
content: Has anybody tried any of these channel 3 upgrades?https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255800366810424.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808615500332.htmlhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/297188907221https://www.ebay.com/itm/386606985215I have the factory 3G option, but I want to be able to go up to at least 6G.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 02:27:28 am
content: The fan noise is annoying. I've seen some interesting choices, but I'm going to match or beat the stock fan specs instead.The fan that was in my 53132A:Fonsan / Delta DFB0412MSpecs:Bearing Type: Ball BearingFan Speed: 6300 RPMNoise Level: 26 DBAMax Airflow: 7.1 CFMMax. Air Pressure: 0.161 inH20Connector: 2 PinI will probably replace it with:Sunon MF40201V2-1000U-A99Bearing Type: VapoFan Speed: 6000 RPMNoise Level: 21 DBAMax Airflow: 7.7 CFMMax. Air Pressure: 0.17 inH20Connector: 2 PinIt's not a huge drop in noise level, but I'm hoping it will be less annoying. I'd prefer the noise drop with the MF40201V3-1000U-G99, but I don't know if dropping the pressure that far is a great idea.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:20:31 am
content: In my PM6680B I have 8GHz module by Cojotech, but he doesn't make them anymore.I've tried to "pressure" him into making a run for 53131/32/81A, but have been unsuccessful.If you have any luck with the chinese modules, I would appreciate if you post as to which one it was.As far as the fan, mine is pretty quite. 34411A (that sits right next to it) is MUCH MORE anoying.I don't think pressure drop is important in this application, it's NOT pulling through a radiator, it's in free air.

author: the Chris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:55:48 am
content: QuoteDid so just a week ago. Yes, it is better than the stock solution. But there remains a whining noise, albeit quieter. I reinserted the fan with a silicone buffer in-between to make sure that vibrations a minimized but that did nothing to the emitted sound. The stock fan was hold by just two screws diagonally, I used four new ones.Regarding the 3rd channel, if you search here for OPTION and 53131A, you should find many reports about various Chinese option boards that all self-resonante when running with no input. Although I would have preferred 6GHz as well, I currently do not need more than 3GHz, which is why I went with the board that is offered by user snickers that works just like OEM, including a prober N-connector directly attached to it.Christian

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 09:11:55 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 12, 2025, 02:27:28 amAs i'm using my Tbolt as ext-ref, I'm actually powering my '132 totally off (disconnect the mains cable) , between uses.No need to power the OCXO to keep it stable, when using ext-ref.Also reduces wear on the PSU.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: the Chris on July 12, 2025, 04:55:48 amThanks, I'm glad that at least improves it.QuoteI already have the "official" 3GHz option in Ch3. My SMIQ is 6GHz, that's why I want to go at least that high.snickers also sells a GPSDO module for these counters, but they're expensive. I messaged him on here to see if he'd sell cheaper directly, but he never got back to me. On eBay, his module costs $195 including shipping. It might be cheap on the grand scheme of things, but compared to the $60 external GPSDO that is currently connected to the counter, it's a lot. Especially considering that the 53132A's ref out is connected to another counter and holding at 7ppb frequency stability using the GPSDO as an ExtRef. So, hard to excuse the high cost for me.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:18:03 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on July 12, 2025, 09:11:55 amI don't currently have an internal OCXO. I hate the fan noise while the thing is running. I've been leaving it on doing longer experiments, and I'm going to make a driver for it for TestController. So it will stay on a lot anyway.What's the Tbolt ext ref? Another GPSDO?

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:31:41 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 12, 2025, 04:18:03 pmA Trimble Thunderbolt GPSDO.... Payback timeProb - TimeNuts favourite GPSDO.http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt-tc/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/trimble-thunderbolt-gps-disciplined-oscillator/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:39:34 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on July 12, 2025, 04:31:41 pmI see that was your revenge. Well played.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 04:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 12, 2025, 04:39:34 pmWasn't even planned ...But you served it right to meThe Tbolt is my 24/7/365 "House standard" , even preferred over my Rubidiums ...Btw:Should be "Old Telecom model" w. V3.0 firmware. (you'd need a 5v/12v/-12v psu)The new Thunderbolt-E isn't as good as the old.Think this page is quite newhttps://w6aer.com/10mhz-gps-disciplined-oscillator-gpsdo-trimble-thunderbolt/More infohttp://www.ke5fx.com/tbolt.htmhttps://prc68.com/I/ThunderBolt.shtmlhttp://www.leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/power.htm

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 05:16:50 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 12, 2025, 04:20:31 amHas anybody that installed a Noctua fan in one of these regretted it? Amazon didn't let me cancel the order and it will arrive today, along with its temptation. 😅

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 05:57:39 pm
content: I have stayed away from Noctua fans in my test gear (I do use them extensively in my work), because usually they have lower CFM (by quite a bit) than the fans they will be raplacing.Noctua NF-A4x20 FLX is 14.9dB and has 5.53 CFM airflow.What I did order (yesterday in fact) for another counter, 53147A, is this:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mechatronics-fan-group/g4020l12b-rsr/5424924This is the factory fan:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/orion-fans/OD4020-12MB/2621122It has 30.3dB and 7.5 CFM.The replacement fan has 23dB and 8 CFM.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 06:54:23 pm
content: Yeah, I'll avoid the Noctua again. If I do put something in quieter, I'll probably stick with the other Sunon version I mentioned. It's 6.3CFM at 16dB. The one I will try first is 7.7CFM at 21dB.

author: the Chris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 07:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 12, 2025, 04:13:00 pmI bought that one as well. Yes, no discounts here on the board, but he helps finding the most economical shipping option. Plus I was able to pay in Euros, circumventing any exchange fees. Currently, the most accurate signal I am able to generate is the 300MHz cal output of my 8591E and after it has warmed up for 30min, my 53181A with his GPSDO and his 3GHz channel jumps between 300,000,001.5 Hz and 300,000,001.6 Hz which fits my expectations. I have read conflicting reports about whether the 53131A and 53181A are able to output 12 digits when going above 10s gate time but I will try out some time next week.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 09:53:45 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 12, 2025, 05:57:39 pmAir displacement says very little. You need to look at static pressure versus airflow and compare graphs. A simpler method is to replace a fan with one which is quieter but has the same power rating. In the end it takes power / energy to push air through a piece of equipment. A fan with the same power rating can -in theory- move the same amount of air given a certain pressure difference across the fan.The replacement fan you linked to has 70% less power compared to the factory fan and the static air pressure is around 65% of what the original fan can achieve. Unfortunately these tiny fans always come with a lot of noise and it is extremely hard to find quieter replacements.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 11:22:54 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 12, 2025, 09:53:45 pmI agree with 90% of what you said.But...Power rating is not realy a good yardstick of how much air a fan can move.If the actual electric motor is of more efficient design, then it can move the same amount of air using less power (everyhting else being equal).Same goes for different blade geometries, bearrings, etc. That's why power rating alone is not very good indication of work performed.Static pressure would come into play if the fan had to push or pull the air through something (like a radiator or a grill).In free air, without any obstructions it souldn't matter too much.Just my (not so humble) opinion

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:32:32 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 11, 2025, 09:28:20 pmSome of those listed upgrades don't seem to have any shielding can over the RF circuits, so I'd avoid those.I recently bought a used 53181A from a member here, and he included a BG7TBL 12.4GHz upgrade PCB that he never got around to installing. I hope to try that out in the coming weeks.https://www.ebay.com/itm/115952759097

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:52:47 am
content: Quote from: Kean on July 13, 2025, 12:32:32 amThanks, that's a good point.QuoteI have that one on my list too. I'm not sure, but it might be the only one that requires setting the scale factor to 4.0? Unless you have option 124 (at least activated in the firmware), and then I think it doesn't matter? I dunno. 🤷I might go with this one:https://www.ebay.com/itm/386606985215That one costs less, and hopefully doesn't need anything extra.I'm tempted to use a rigid SMA cable and an N jack. We'll see. 🤔Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 04:12:01 pm
content: Am I correct that I need a GPIB cable and can't use the RS-232 port for remote control?ETA: No issue getting it to "print" to putty, but I want to have full control and add a definition for TestController.Is there any way to get a *IDN? to work over the serial port?Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 10:40:51 pm
content: As far as I know, No. Remote is only through GPIB.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 12:18:05 am
content: Thanks, that's what I figured. I ordered an Agilent 82357B GPIB on eBay.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 04:36:52 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 14, 2025, 12:18:05 amTold you soBtw:You should consider an AR488 GPIB (Prologic clone) too.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/ar488-arduino-based-gpib-adapter/The Agilent is "fine" , but a lot of nice DIY control software is made with the "Prologic" commandset.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 03:24:57 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on July 14, 2025, 04:36:52 amYou told me to get a GPIB, you didn't tell me the serial port was mostly useless.QuoteLike what?I'm just going to make a definition so the counters will work with TestController. The regular SCPI stuff is all I need for that.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 02:29:57 am
content: Does anybody know where I can get this SMA to N connector that fits in a BNC mounting hole?I've tried search term variations, and reverse image search, and still can't find it.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 03:35:35 am
content: Going by generic BNC mounting hole dimensions (since I have not measured the existing hole), there are 3 that MAY work.Pasternak PE9408 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pasternack/PE9408/21345169Amphenol 901-295 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/amphenol-rf/901-295/4746782Faiview Microwave SM4211 (discontinued) -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fairview-microwave/SM4211/22225283Have had no luck finding that exact adapter (and I've tried)

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 04:12:20 am
content: That's more than I was able to find, but... The hilarious part is that you can buy the 12.4GHz option with the adapter for less than those:https://www.ebay.com/itm/114012754150I should message the seller and see if they'll sell them separately. 🤔Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 03:12:23 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 15, 2025, 04:12:20 amQuoteBoo. Now to ask other sellers.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 04:22:25 pm
content: Here are a couple of Keysight part numbers for the newer counters that use a connector similar to what you posted:53200-80004 (fits 53210A. 53220A, 53230A)E4418-20009 (also fits N1911A, N1912A, N1913B, N1914A)I'll give them a call see how many organs would it cost to purchase it from them.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 06:58:44 pm
content: There's another option, instead of using an adapter from N to SMA, we can try using a bulkhead connector.Similar to how Agilent did it on the 53147A/48A/49A series of instruments.Solder/crimp/clamp a coax to the bulkhead part & put an SMA connector on the other end that goes to the board.Here are some part humbers that MAY work. Not having the actual measurement of the mounting hole, hard to judge which one of the following will fit.RF Industries RFN-1022-5 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/rf-industries/RFN-1022-5/13159396Fairview Microwave SC9275 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fairview-microwave/SC9275/22227108Amphenol 172270 -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/172270?qs=pUp6IBEmRwfHMlKyvSKf9A%3D%3DAmphenol 172270-11 -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Amphenol-RF/172270-11?qs=ZSAEa%2FMl32x0Un158ZB7cw%3D%3DRadiall 4502-7071-003 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/radiall-usa-inc/4502-7071-003/14827623Pasternack PE4488 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pasternack/PE4488/21357080Fairview Microwave FMCN1954 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fairview-microwave/FMCN1954/25877786Pasternack PE1954 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pasternack/PE1954/21843743Pomona 4889 -https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/pomona-electronics/4889/737020Rosenberg 05K121-272S3 -https://products.rosenberger.com/radio-frequency/connectors/104785/05k121-272s3-straight-jack#And all of them seem to be A LOT cheaper than the previous part numbers I posted.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 07:52:43 pm
content: Some much better choices there! Bulkhead connector is correct, but I'm still hoping to find one with SMA on one side and N on the other. I have that rigid SMA cable I think would be good for this. Worst case, I could just solder on to one of those cheaper bulkheads.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 01:52:04 am
content: I installed the Sunon MF40201V2-1000U-A99 today. Much better! It's not just quieter, the sound is smoother and less annoying.It's not super quiet by comparison, but the result is decent. Enough that I won't bother trying the MF40201V3 that I also ordered.One dumb thing I did that probably helped, is I taped the flappy flap to the top of the fan so it wouldn't contribute to the annoying noise.ETA: The volume drop was more significant than I thought. My mini-split was blowing air, and I thought it was the counter's fan noise, which used to be louder than the mini-split.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 03:41:39 am
content: Amphenol 131-445 looks like it should fit, though a bit more endowed than normal.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 09:14:22 am
content: Looks like those are not available anymore (discontinued). Can't even find a datasheet for them.Still can find them on eBay (either new or used). I ordered a couple to see if it fits.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 09:27:48 am
content: I had a look at the N to SMA panel mount adapter that came with my BG7TBL kit, but it doesn't have any markings.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 09:52:47 am
content: I'm pretty sure it's something they make locally (in China), beacuse anything from a "brand" is more expensive than the entire kit.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 02:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 16, 2025, 09:14:22 amMe too. Along with some other stuff the seller (Dave/W5SWL) had.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 02:25:38 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 16, 2025, 02:00:27 pmI started looking at his ebay store, then decided not to be tempted by every post Josh makes

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 03:02:06 pm
content: Good luck.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 05:35:43 pm
content: I've bought quite a few things from him over the years.Some times he's got good prices, some times not so much.Service has always been outstanding.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 07:10:38 pm
content: Yeah, right now he's got those weird SMA - N adapters for half price around $11. Definitely worth buying a couple...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:09:18 pm
content: Josh, do you plan to put the OCXO option in it, or run it off an external reference?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:42:36 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 16, 2025, 11:09:18 pmI have everything connected through a distribution amplifier using a GPSDO as the external ref. Seems to work fine.Thanks,JoshETA: If I decide to sell it, I might throw an OCXO in there for added value. I have a CNT-90XL on the way, but I don't know the actual condition yet.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 16, 2025, 11:42:36 pmThat's the way to do it.Given that the stock fan is designed to work with a fully loaded system, not having the OCXO in there the Noctua fan will probably be more than sufficient.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 11:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on July 16, 2025, 11:46:22 pmNo Noctua for me. I swapped out the stock fan for a Sunon with better specs than the stock fan had. Quieter, sounds better, and more efficient. If I wanted it even quieter than that, there's a Sunon model that's quieter than the model I used, but still better than the Noctua around the same dB level. I posted the model numbers earlier in the thread.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 04:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 16, 2025, 03:41:39 amI received my order today, and yes, it should work. But it has teeth! So maybe put a gasket to protect the front panel.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 05:07:03 pm
content: Are the teeth there to prevent unwanted turning?

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 05:07:20 pm
content: Or you can just file them off

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 05:26:38 pm
content: Yes, to both of you.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 08:46:03 pm
content: Or if you don't care about contact, let the teeth dig into a nylon washer.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:09:20 pm
content: Can some of you with the 53132A and 53131A please share the *IDN? response from your counters? I'm making a driver definition file for TestController, and I'll want to add some variants.Thanks,Josh

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:49:55 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 16, 2025, 11:42:36 pmBecause you want to go higher than 3 GHz?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:59:56 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 19, 2025, 09:49:55 pmAre you asking if that's why I'd sell it? If so, no. It's because I have that CNT-90XL on the way, and (if it works) it's a superior counter (bonus: it has a USB port).I also have a 10GHz prescaler on the way for the 53132A, so going over 3GHz won't be a problem if that does what it's supposed to.Thanks,Josh

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:15:30 pm
content: Quotehttps://pendulum-instruments.com/products/microwave-counters/cnt-90xl/I don't even want to know how you managed to do that again...

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:16:00 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 19, 2025, 09:09:20 pmHere are mine:HEWLETT-PACKARD,53181A,0,4243\nHEWLETT-PACKARD,53131A,0,3944\nHEWLETT-PACKARD,53132A,0,4613\n

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: gamalot on July 19, 2025, 10:16:00 pmThanks! Are yours branded HP or Agilent? Mine is Agilent, but the *IDN? response also says HP.Thanks,Josh

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 10:21:01 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 19, 2025, 10:20:10 pmThey are all Agilent brand.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 04:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: gamalot on July 20, 2025, 10:21:01 amSweet, that should keep things simple then.Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 10:41:31 pm
content: Does anybody know the correct SCPI command to return the 53132A back to local? GTL and SYSTem:LOCal don't work for me.I'm using the Prologix GPIB USB. ++loc works for the Prologix to do it, but doesn't work in TC.Thanks,Josh

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 12:04:35 am
content: I was confused because I couldn't figure out why I would need to send a SCPI command to get the instrument back to local state, since it wouldn't be much trouble to just press the local button on the front panel.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 12:46:07 am
content: Quote from: gamalot on July 21, 2025, 12:04:35 amYup, it's not that big of a deal. However, if you're controlling it remotely, and close TestController or switch to another app, leaving it in a remote state will sometimes stop it from connecting remotely again without disconnect/reconnecting the GPIB USB connection. It's inconsistent for some reason. Sometimes it locks out, and other times it doesn't. Not sure if it's the device's fault or the GPIB adapter.When you make a driver definition file for TestController, there's a "Final Command" that you define for when you close TC. It sends that command to the connected device(s) to change their state to whatever is defined. I used a couple basic things (*RST,*CLS, etc.) but having the specific command to set it back to local would be useful.The programming guide only really shows using the command LOCAL in scripts, but there wasn't a simple SCPI command that worked.There's ++loc for the Prologix, but it's specifically for that adapter, and doesn't work from TC. Oh well. 🤷Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 06:58:21 am
content: This is from programming guide for 34401A so not sure if it will work for 53132A, but have you tried SYSTem:LOCal or SYST:LOC as a final command?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 03:02:44 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 21, 2025, 06:58:21 amDoesn't work unfortunately.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 05:10:41 pm
content: If you type in SYST:HELP? it will list all the available SCPI commands for it.I've been playing with a definition for 34410A and what worked (somewhat) was SYST:LOCK:RELAgain not sure if it will work on 53132A (don't have GPIB anything to test it).

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 07:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 21, 2025, 05:10:41 pmUnfortunately, those both give errors on the 53132A.I attached the programming guide which does have a command summary. From what I saw in my (possibly lazy) reading of the manual is that they only show local control being changed as a function of separate programming; no direct SCPI command.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 08:39:52 pm
content: On page 2-37 of the manual there's:QuoteSee if you can use that???Still reading the rest of it, might find something else...Edit:According to page 4-117 (Key to Key Code table) command to put it back under LOCAL control should be :SYST:KEY 6

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 08:57:35 pm
content: Have you tried using just LOCAL (without the SYSTEM) or LOCAL 7** (** should be your GPIB address) ?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 09:16:39 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 21, 2025, 08:57:35 pmYes. From what I could see (again, in my lazy reading), if you look earlier in the script, they bind the counter to that number first (in the script), so the LOCAL function is still dependent on the scripting language of choice.Quote from: Rubo on July 21, 2025, 08:39:52 pmWhat numerical value is the Save & Recall key? If there is a numerical value associated with it, that might work. 🤔Thanks,Josh

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 09:20:15 pm
content: The answer is 6. But unfortunately,:SYST:KEY 6doesSaveinstead ofLocal. Great idea though anyway.ETA: repeating the command cycles through the associated key functions, but not changing to local control.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 10:37:22 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 21, 2025, 09:16:39 pmHow is TC addressing it?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 11:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 21, 2025, 10:37:22 pmSCPI commands. I posted the definition driver file in the TC thread, you can download it from there and test it out. If you read the text file, you can see the basic mechanics of how it works pretty clearly.That might be the final version assuming no issues, but I might add another option or two (if they're possible).Thanks,Josh

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 03:27:51 pm
content: I just set up a simple test environment and I found that sending GTL commands with PyVISA can get my counters to return the local operating status.This code works (ONLY WITH NI BACKEND, I THINK):Code:import pyvisarm = pyvisa.ResourceManager()inst = rm.open_resource("TCPIP::192.168.68.63::gpib0,5::INSTR")print(inst.query("*IDN?"))inst.control_ren(pyvisa.constants.VI_GPIB_REN_DEASSERT_GTL)

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2025, 06:20:26 pm
content: Slightlyoff topic, but I didn't feel like starting a new thread. I'm using the Prologix GPIB USB with the counter, so close enough.Anyway. I bought one on Amazon for $312 and one on eBay for $90. Which one is which? Which one is "real?"Unit 1:Unit 2:Thanks,JoshPS. I think $90 is too expensive for what these things are, and how old the design is.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2025, 09:53:23 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 19, 2025, 04:46:57 pmI got mine yesterday, popped the plug for Channel 3 on the counter to check fitment.It can work, but it's not ideal. The existing hole is a little bigger. Threads on the adapter are 3/8" (10mm-ish) while the hole is 1/2" (12-12.5mm-ish).Ordered a buch of adapters off of eBay (used, couldn't fine anything new) and will post back after I get them.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2025, 10:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 23, 2025, 06:20:26 pmThey look the same to me. One is newer revision 6.5 vs 6.4, but FTDI chip on the newer one has older datecode than the one on the older unit???While staying off topic. Scored a good deal on NI GPIB-USB-HS+, so will be able to test your definition files soon

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2025, 12:43:26 am
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 23, 2025, 10:03:58 pmWeird, right?QuoteThat one works with TC? I didn't want to mess around, that's why I bought the Prologix one, after I bought the Agilent one that isn't compatible at all.I'm finishing up some additions to the counter definitions; I'll post them tonight or tomorrow. The current posted definitions only work correctly with frequency counting, but I'll have at least phase and ratio functional shortly.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2025, 01:14:16 am
content: I have no idea if it works with TC, guess I'll find out soon enoughI'll let you know if it works.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2025, 01:53:24 am
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 24, 2025, 01:14:16 amAdding GPIB devices in TC are limited to those in the list (see attached). If the GPIB adapter creates a serial port, it should work. If it doesn't, or relies on USBTMC, it probably won't work. You'll need to see if that adapter works as a com port or not.I think I read somewhere that the Kofen and AR488 are all Prologix compatible. That's why I just went with the Prologix...that and Kofen is on vacation or something and not taking orders.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2025, 04:47:30 am
content: Got it. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll see what it works as once it's here.If it doesn't work with TC, I can always use it with other apps and get one that works with TC later.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 11:24:05 pm
content: I can confirm, NI GPIB-USB-HS+ does NOT work with TC.Now I need to decide which one to get nextBack to the original topic.Got the first of the adapters that I odered. It's a much better fit.Ordered it from this seller:https://www.ebay.com/itm/300919363691(not affiliated).I'll post again when the other adapters show up.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 11:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on July 25, 2025, 11:24:05 pmWant me to send you a PCB or two? I ordered these:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/ar488-arduino-based-gpib-adapter/msg4483507/#msg4483507I don't have them yet, they'll be here in a week or so.Those adapters look like a much better fit. I might have to order from them too.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 11:50:05 pm
content: I'll let you know about the boards, thank you for the offerAt the same time, hold off on the adapters, I still have another 5 that are going to show up in the next few days (from different sellers on eBay).Once I know which one is a better fit, will post it here. I may have WAY more adapters than I know what to do with, so I could send you some.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 11:52:32 pm
content: Sounds good, thanks. You might have your other adapters before I get the PCBs anyway. I did the $3 shipping option.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2025, 10:08:39 pm
content: Second adapter came in. It's identical to the first, but in a much rougher shape.This one I got from this seller:https://www.ebay.com/itm/123082480264After some cleaning:Once I have all of the ones I ordered, will measure their return loss.So that if anyone wants/needs to get one, you can make an informed decision.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2025, 10:54:49 pm
content: Yikes. I would return that one. This RF crap is sensitive, and that looks like it should be trashed.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2025, 11:11:50 pm
content: That's what I thought at first.After scraping a small part on the flange it turned out to be some sticky substance, so I just cleaned it with alcohol and it looks fine now (look at the last picture).Will still measure the return loss on it and if it's good enough, I'll keep it as a spare.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2025, 11:35:57 pm
content: I don't love sticky substances on my test gear.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2025, 02:45:10 am
content: So the next set of adapters came in today. They are axactly the same as the previous two (all from different sellers).This looks like it might be the best deal (price vs quality)https://www.ebay.com/itm/146188478144I'm still waiting for one more to arive, but looks like all of the adapters are identical.When the last one comes in, I'll put them on an analyzer and see what the return loss is.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2025, 05:17:05 pm
content: I got bored/impatient earlier today and decided to test the adapters I've received up to now.All of them had a return loss of in excess of -30db from 1MHz to 2.7GHz (due to limitations of my setup, couldn't test it further).The above screenshot is a good representation of the lot. The loss varied between samples by +/-0.5dbFrequency range is from 1MHz to 1GHz. Don't have a directional coupler that spans the entire frequency range, so have to use 2.One from 1MHz to 1GHz and the second one from 650MHz to 2.7GHzJosh, pm me about your adapter/s

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 07:45:55 pm
content: 10 days ago I upgraded the firmware, and today I finally had time to power on the counter and recalibrate it. Calibration went smoothly with my SPD3303X and SDG2122X.Rather than risking the original firmware chips, I bought 4 of these:https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/556-AT27C01070JUTand then I programmed them with the XGecu T48.After completing the update, I used it to calibrate the reference in a E4438C I'm messing with. That thing has some nice fine tuning for the ref.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 10:06:11 pm
content: NiceDid you ever find a prescaler for these? Or did you hear back from CojoTech?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 11:04:53 pm
content: Cojotech said he's going to try and start reproducing these and for the Fluke/Pendulum counters in a couple months.I'll buy his 8GHz prescaler when it's available again.Thanks,Josh

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 12:36:49 am
content: Cool. I'll wait until he has some and get one from him then.Already hav his 8GHz one in my PM6680B, so I know he does a good job.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 12:53:34 am
content: Nice! I want to get that one too, but it won't work in my CNT-90XL without making modes I don't want to make.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 04:45:41 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 13, 2025, 12:53:34 amWhy do you think it would not work?AFAIK they use exactly the same prescalers for PM6680, PM6685 & PM6690 (including the rubidium models).But I may be missing something???

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 04:53:14 am
content: Quote from: Rubo on August 13, 2025, 04:45:41 amThe CNT-90 is compatible, the CNT-90XL is not. The XL version doesn't use prescalers; it uses (allegedly) higher-end mixers instead. For the XL model, they cut a trace to J5, and they do some other type of coding on the unit, both of which would need to be changed to work with the standard prescalers.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 01:34:02 pm
content: Got it. But since it's the XL, didn't it already come with a prescaler? In their brochure the have "Frequency range: up to 27, 40, 46, or 60 GHz"

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 01:55:24 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 13, 2025, 04:53:14 amThanks for that bit of knowledge. I'll watch for updates on production with COJOTECH. I want to get a higher frequency prescaler for my recently repaired PM6690.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 03:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: Rubo on August 13, 2025, 01:34:02 pmIt was supposed to have the 40GHz mixer module (not prescaler), but I bought it on eBay. Some summamabitch took it out of the unit. I'm hoping to find a mixer for it eventually. I don't have anything that goes above 6GHz, so any of the mixers would be fine for me.

author: Rubo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 09:34:40 pm
content: Ouch, that sucks. Good luck with finding what you're looking for.In all the years I've kept my eye on the 'bay, I have only seen XL twice.And have never seen any parts for it at all.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 05:20:36 am
content: I couldn't resist another project, so I built my own version of the timebase from CircuitValley's open source project. It works. Though the documentation I could find was a little lacking.For the 5V OCXO I used, J4 and J5 both get jumped, so does J1. R1 and R3 don't get populated. I installed a couple extra components that don't get used unless you want manual control, but I figured I'd throw them in there in case I get bored and want to mess with that too.

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 01:55:19 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 22, 2025, 05:20:36 amI don't know why watching automatic calibration and adjustment on the scope is so fascinating. I have been known to do that a couple times just to watch.I also wrapped the unit in a plastic barrier. That way the OCXO stays warm and the parts around it get their cool air. I don't know if it helped me feel good.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 06:23:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on August 22, 2025, 01:55:19 pmI also find it entertaining.I forgot to attach these captures from it.