New Agilent 34450A OLED Bench Meter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 12:15:50 pm
content: http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2013/22jan-em13007.htmlTerrible promo video warning!http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-2193855-pn-34450A/digital-multimeter-5-1-2-digit?&cc=AU&lc=enghttp://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5991-1133EN.pdfThat OLED display looks sexy!EU$605US$787Yes, I'm supposed to be getting one for review...Dave.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 12:36:15 pm
content: I surely does look beautiful! The video also indicates that its update rate is not frenetic as their portable DMMs (I really dislike that). I look forward for the review!

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 12:39:44 pm
content: Green sucks though... I hope one can select another colour.

author: jnd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 12:46:46 pm
content: The full size font looks terrible, particularly the number '4', who designed that? I don't like displays which are so tall.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 12:49:15 pm
content: OLED are nice displays, like old style LED on steroids. I hope though their lifespan and burn in issues are improved.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLED#Disadvantages

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 01:09:27 pm
content: Quote from: jnd on January 25, 2013, 12:46:46 pmIt is not only the font, they have a rather low display resolution. Making the digits and letters look ugly. But compared to traditional VFDs I don't think the display is a real problem.They have a software license memory upgrade for data logging. Memory for 50k logging values for 120 Euro. BahThat's 20% of the cost of the instrument for what is maybe 512 KByte of memory.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 02:23:21 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on January 25, 2013, 12:49:15 pmI wonder if the segments will end up uneven after a while like they do on the old 34401 VF displays.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 02:36:23 pm
content: The 6.5 version, when?

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 03:10:18 pm
content: Interesting, presumably it will replace one of their current meters (the 34405A). I have to say, I have my doubts about long-term use of OLED displays. Bench meters are intended to be left running all day, and that must really take its toll on pixel burn. In theory you can just leave them on standby to keep the reference stable, but in the real world once they are turned on they tend to be left on. VFDs used to be a bit of a bugger for that, but in recent years they seem much less prone. The buttons look a bit low-rent in comparison to the Tektronix and Fluke, maybe I am just biased but combined with the display, they seem to make it a bit toy-like. Here is the DMM4020 to compare.More tear-down-ish photos I have taken here:http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd237/Zadpics/Tektronix%20DMM4020%20Bench%20Multimeter/General long term review and write up:http://www.element14.com/community/roadTestReviews/1398

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 03:34:31 pm
content: Like saturation I would worry about lifetime of the OLED if I bought one of these new. That leeds me to the upside: maybe a whole bunch of these meters will hit ebay in 6-7 years cheap, needing only a replacement lcd

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 04:27:08 pm
content: Yes, in color OLED the uneven aging also causes color shifting, at least for TV applications. Here's a photo of old style OLED and all its ills, dead segments, uneven brightness and burn-in, and this is only on a single color.Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 25, 2013, 02:23:21 pm

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 04:44:05 pm
content: Video is terrible!Meter looks nice to me, I don't like diode range of 1.000V max...Why Agilent limits that to 1V on most of its bench meters?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 05:04:05 pm
content: I dont like the display, it's too slow and the color baahhhhh is not my prefered too...

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 05:34:24 pm
content: Also good for people who have Presbyopia. Big display.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2013, 09:54:28 pm
content: ugly low res display with huge numbers, why that stupid bright green?, when she pressed the buttons to change function its response well who wrote that slow software?

author: Chopsticks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 11:59:31 am
content: as usual some moron was left to use his imagination on how to represent the number 4... this is a bench meter so you'd think that amongst all the testing etc that goes into the design process that someone must have noticed how crap 4 looks.ohh and if memory serves correct wouldn't they have settled on a green OLED display because its life expectancy is better then using red or blue?? someone please correct me if im wrong

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 04:29:48 pm
content: That looks to be the same ugly 4 that is in the handheld OLED meter. Perhaps Agilent has moved its low-end bench multimeter design to the former Escort group that does the handhelds.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 04:43:41 pm
content: Hmm i got mixed feelings on this one...This may be an escort design , or bot , but that aside..Oleds do burn in over time. I have a fm docking station for a music player so you can listen to it on the car radio. It uses oled. It shows the frequency you are transmitting at. After 3 months it was already burned in...And then there is the refresh. Screen refresh on these things is top to bottom. So when they redraw the display they start changing pixels from top to bottom and left to right. Lets say the first digit was a three and needs changing to a 4 if that character is 50 pixels high at half point you have an image that is top half '4' and bottom half '3'. Its neighbour is also in half state...With vfds this is not the case. The drive lines for a digit change in parallel as the digit is selected. So there a number jumps instantaneously. This gives a more pleasant optical experience.Dot matrix vfds are plagued with the same problem as they are row scanned...Numerical (7 segment or starburst (14 segment is called starburst cause it looks like a star with flares shooting off of it like in a camera lens )) are digit scanned.I for one dont want the pixel displays. They seem fuzzy to mee ( i experience the refresh ... These things update slow compared to an lcd screen. )

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 04:53:00 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 26, 2013, 04:43:41 pmAre you sure about that? All the OLED's i had so far had a similar or even faster refresh rate than a comparable LCD. However, OLED has very low turn-on/off times, comapred to normal LCD panels. So they flip the pixels pretty much instantly, while a LCD is rather slow there. And i think that this is what you perceive. Not that i talk about normal STN LCD here.Plus, quite often such displays are driven through a slow interface, i.e. their memory contents are not updated as fast as it could, making the display-rewrite even more visible.Greetings,Chris

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 06:18:20 pm
content: Quote from: mamalala on January 26, 2013, 04:53:00 pmthat's what i mean. the interface takes time to rewrite the entire datablock and you i perceive this. put such a meter under a 50hz or 60hz fluorescent light and it will get even worse ... that effect is notnoticeable witha VFD 7 segment or starburst as all segments in a single character update in 1 shot.dus to the amount of pixels in these characters you can;t do that in 1 shot. it takes time as the display is fed information line per line. and that is relaitvely slow.

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:10:54 pm
content: Although it's said you can't argue about taste, this one looks awful to me. It looks almost like someone used MS Paint to create that display. And who on earth came up with the slightly-outward-bend sides for the rubbers.Those 'new' rubbers make the instruments look like an over-sized lady's hips, or at least like a Chinese toy. Add the really rounded buttons, and I can't stop thinking, where is the 'engineering feel & image' that it's supposed to be emitting. I really like how the 'older' design of for example the 34401A looks. Although the looks on the PFANG Dave had in one of his Blogs get to me anytime as well.disclamer: just my opinion YMMV

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 07:23:01 pm
content: In my undergrad days(turn of the millenium) I worked in a research lab that was interested in red OLED materials.The emission of OLEDs is typically fluorescence based not phosphorescence based. The difference between the two is in how electrons move, which isn't important here, but what is important is that fluorescent life times are on the order of nanoseconds, whereas phosphorescence is typically longer though it can also be much much longer (which is how those materials which "glow in the dark" stay glowing for so long). The reason I mention this is the person who says that the turn on and off slowly, they don't. If you do encounter the issue it is with the circuit not with the OLEDs themselves. The OLED display in my car headunit is quite fast. OLEDs are several orders of magnitude faster than even the fastest LCDs right now.As for burn-in, I hope they include some sort of wear leveling ability on these or the shadowing is goign to be really annoying. I'm just not sure of the benefit of OLED over an LCD in a situation like this. Battery life isn't an issue, those who say viewing angle (IPS has basically perfect viewing angles). It is just for the wow factor and that wow factor is at the expense of some drawbacks.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2013, 08:00:12 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on January 26, 2013, 07:23:01 pmContrast. It's what makes VFD better than LCD too. I like the idea but I think it might prove to be more problematic than advantageous at this point in OLED development. Not a fan of the colour choice though.QuoteDo you think that'll be a problem? I've been working with an 80Hz refresh graphic OLED for a project recently and as long as I do page flipping instead of try to draw to the live buffer, I can't notice the redraw at all, and I consider myself fairly conscious of that sort of thing.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 10:32:50 am
content: Dave: any news on a review unit?I don't think update rate is an issue on modern OLEDs. If the $5 one's from china can do the update speed below, then I'm sure the quality units Agilent specify can too. In that video, the frame is shifted right one pixel on the microcontroller framebuffer, and then the entire thing is sent to the display to update pixel by pixel. The effect is much smoother in person as well. I don't think my iphone does anything higher than 60fps.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 01:34:56 pm
content: I'm kind of curious why they'd release a new5.5 digit meter over a 6.5, ie improving on the 34401a.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 01:43:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on April 07, 2013, 01:34:56 pmI'll take a guess that it's down to production cost and achievable sales price to maintain market share. I'm not an expert in the DMM market but it would be interesting to know what Agilents market share was for 5.5, 6.5 and 8 digit meters, along with volumes and prices for each.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 02:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on April 07, 2013, 10:32:50 amNope, haven't heard from them in a while.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 02:37:21 pm
content: http://www.agilent.com/about/newsroom/presrel/2013/22jan-em13007.htmlThe Japanese girl is cute.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2013, 04:53:14 pm
content: Dang, I want one of these! I was checking them out when I bought my U3401A, but I couldnt find any in stock without a long lead time. Found a good deal on the U3401A and jumped. Looks like Newwark has one in stock now, but I prefer to buy from Test Equipment Depot and they dont yet. Ill have to sell my U3401A to help fund it too.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2013, 08:58:26 pm
content: So how is the boot up/power on time on this model for those that have played with it?

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2013, 03:19:08 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 07, 2013, 02:37:21 pmShe's no Japanese, accent and name doesn't match.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2013, 10:50:16 pm
content: Ha! Came home yesterday and my brand new 34450A was sitting there waiting for me! Came 2 month early! Now to get Agilent to give me the two free upgrade options since I bought it during their promotional period.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2013, 11:19:08 pm
content: Here ya go guys.. A kinda VFD type look

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2013, 11:21:15 pm
content: Quote from: orbiter on June 29, 2013, 11:19:08 pmHuh? Did you not see the first post? Think everyone has seen what these look like by now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 12:24:06 am
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on June 29, 2013, 10:50:16 pmWHat options do you get?

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 12:58:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 30, 2013, 12:24:06 am3445GPBU GPIB Connectivity Upgrade Optionand3445MEMU 50,000 Points Memory Upgrade For Data LoggingIve attached the PDF with the details.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 04:58:40 am
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on June 29, 2013, 11:21:15 pmHmm?.. Spot any subtle differences from the one on page 1 ?

author: jebcom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 05:50:38 pm
content: QuoteGack! Understated!Agilent can't find anybody who knows how to produce a video?I watched it at work with headphones on. That stupid music is entirely in one ear; what a distraction! That's even worse than the Ben Heck videos.Did anyone notice any spec on display life?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 11:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: M. András on January 25, 2013, 09:54:28 pmGreen is about 100% longer live time than blue - that could be the reason.Red is even longer but it may look too much like a warning type display.

author: rpk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 17, 2013, 11:26:44 am
content: Ordered one for work project. Nice display but too bad there is no DISPLAY:TEXT scpi command. Would be nice to draw some bold messages.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 12:13:33 am
content: 3 years past... Anyone has problem with the OLED? Burnings? Dead pixels?

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 12:16:12 am
content: Mines still running perfectly. Though to be honest I don't use it a lot so it doesn't have a ton of run time on it.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 12:31:37 am
content: Thanks, sounds goodIs it able to measure AC and DC at the same time without switching a relay?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 12:31:43 am
content: Mine has barely been used, the screen still looks killer of course. I powered it on last night as they released a firmware update last month. There were a few small bugs fixed and the power up screen is now Keysight branded.It has to be the best or one of the best screens ever used on a bench meter.Relay is switched to measure AC and DC at the same time.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 12:53:53 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 06, 2016, 12:31:43 amThanks for mentioning that. That would annoy me. Ill have to see what fixes were done in the change log of the firmware and decided if I actually need any. It would bug me that my Agilent branded meter had an ugly Keysight logo on the boot up screen.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:25:46 am
content: I had the opposite problem. A front panel that was Keysight branded but the software said Agilent. So for me at least it all matches now.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:28:13 am
content: I wish I would have bought the 34461A before they rebranded. Huh, maybe I could find an older one brand new in stock somewhere...

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:50:02 am
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on April 06, 2016, 01:28:13 amThe only negative to that would be the much shorter warranty. Keysight doesn't go by sale date, they go by the date it was made/packaged, then add 6 months to that and assume it will be sold within that 6 month period to provide the 3 year warranty. My Keysight branded 34461A was 7 months old when I bought it, but my dealer gave me a smoking deal so a 35 month warranty was fine. My Keysight branded 34450A was a warranty replacement, they don't service the 34450A at all, it is straight swap.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 01:51:48 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 06, 2016, 01:50:02 amNot sure thats how they do it in the US. I think they have to start the warranty period here whenever the item was sold provided it was sold via an authorized dealer.

author: amirm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 04:40:15 am
content: Quote from: ben_r_ on April 06, 2016, 01:51:48 amIn US, Keysight does it exactly as mentioned. When I called them about the warranty on my scope, they said it started when they shipped the unit to the reseller, not when I bought it! I would have yelled at them except that they were going to give me two extra years so I did not complain. I have never seen any other company do it this way.

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 03:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: amirm on April 06, 2016, 04:40:15 amWow. I have never heard of that either! Thats terrible.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 04:32:31 pm
content: Quote from: amirm on April 06, 2016, 04:40:15 amI am surprised by this. I had to call them for a warranty purpose, and they told me they start the warranty automatically when the unit is shipped to the reseller, but you can get the warranty adjusted to your purchase date if you can document the purchase.What they are not doing is recalibrating units that have been sitting on the shelf for a while. For some models, they automatically get them back from the reseller for calibration, but for most units, the calibration is what it is. I have purchased (and subsequently returned) a U1272A whose cal had expired, despite being a 3yr cal...

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 04:36:06 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on April 06, 2016, 04:32:31 pmI was specifically told they will not adjust the warranty period, even with your proof of purchase.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 04:43:39 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 06, 2016, 04:36:06 pmThat's unsettling.Theirwarranty terms pageis not all that clear on it, but says:"2. The warranty period begins on acceptance."

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 08:17:40 pm
content: Ehrmm, is this normal?The resistance meter says approx 4 MOhm on open terminals.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 08:37:11 pm
content: Absolutely not normal!

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2016, 08:17:10 pm
content: Okay, I just started to lose the trust:I swear, I do not look for the fail videos, just these came up in youtube. Anyway, that build quality - it is even not par on with Siglent (and Dave said for the Siglent: just cheaper), it is somewhere in the Rigol area.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 07, 2016, 08:26:25 pm
content: Is the 34450A in the youtube video your meter? It is obviously broken/damaged but without knowing the history of it you can't draw much of a conclusion.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2016, 08:52:23 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 07, 2016, 08:26:25 pmNope, I've just looking for a desktop DMM and I really like that display and no problem with the specs as well. I asked for a quote and details about this meter from the local authorized distributor, but after a short meaningless answer I did not get any quote/answer for my questions. :/Probably I should consider that distributor as a not existent...

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 12:55:36 am
content: Quote from: pxl on April 07, 2016, 08:52:23 pmDid they fix problem with measuring diodes on that meter?It had problem whe you measure diode, that short beep does not beep all the time when testing the same diode. So try to test diode about 10 times, every 2 second to see if it will beep all the time or just sometimes.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 01:38:37 am
content: Are you talking about the u3401a or the 34450a? I've never had an issue with diodes or seen mention of it with respect to the 34450a.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 12:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: amirm on April 06, 2016, 04:40:15 amHard drive manufacturers do the same thing. If you have a 1 year warranty, it will usually be 15 months from manufacture date, giving 3 months for distribution and sale. You can usually check the exact day that the warranty will expire on the manufacturer's web site using only the drive serial number, and this date has nothing to do with when you actually bought the device.