Does anyone else pronounce "Soldering" as "Saudering"? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:27:27 pm
content: Hey all something I noticed when watching tech videos on youtube is that people most often pronounce solder/soldering as it is spelt, with the l in the word, which was interesting to me. I started out pronouncing it saudering, and when I audited a college class in grade 8 for electronics fabrication, the instructor also pronounced it saudering (or he must have, because I would have changed over if he had pronounced it soldering).Just wondering if it's one of those things people pronounce differently based on where they lived, or if pronouncing it that way is a big faux pas. To me pronouncing it as Saudering Iron is much more esthetically pleasing than Souldering Iron or Soldering Iron.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:37:38 pm
content: I've always pronounced solder as insold. I think that's standard here in the UK. I think what you're hearing on YouTube is the US pronunciation (as insod). I find it very odd. Much like most of what Americans have done to our language.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on May 02, 2014, 01:37:38 pmYeah, in Canada myself, UK/Australian youtubers pronounce it soldering/souldering more noticeably.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:46:25 pm
content: The L is silent in the US.Tim

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:56:00 pm
content: I have always saidAmericans are Sodermist's , and can not disagree ! btw ....

author: Slow Poke
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 01:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on May 02, 2014, 01:37:38 pmLike Quebecois, North American English may not be the same as King's English. Nope, sod-er-ing's the way it is in Silicon Valley....Ummmm,silly-cone or silly-con?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:03:11 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 02, 2014, 01:46:25 pmThank you, someone actually knows the answer. Words are pronounced differently in different countries that speak the same language, sometimes.US English:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solder?s=t"Queen's" English:http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/british/solder_1?q=solderboth of those sites have pronunciations that you can listen to. Sometimes I can't watch videos of Americans that pronounce it the other way around, because I know they're doing it to piss people off rather than to honor some appropriate pronunciation BS they made up. I get that language evolves and that things change, but one or two youtube channels who choose to pronounce that single word their own way don't get to define the pronunciation for the rest of us."Aluminum" and "aluminium" are different words entirely that have the same meaning with different spellings and different pronunciations that correspond to the individual spelling differences. If we used the word aluminium in the US we'd probably pronounce it the same way as the rest of the english speaking world, but we use a different word: aluminum.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:31:55 pm
content: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=solderHere is a history of it.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 02, 2014, 01:46:25 pmYes - in fact the pronunciation common here is "soddering", which the first syllable pronounced like "sod". This doesn't seem to be one of the choices in the poll.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:47:47 pm
content: I'm amused by "soddering" because if you solder badly you can sod things up...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:49:21 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 02, 2014, 02:03:11 pmAnd apparently it's working, now sodder off and cry.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 02:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on May 02, 2014, 01:37:38 pmI'm just glad we left before you guys invented that funny accent of yours.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 03:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 02, 2014, 02:50:46 pmOi, what's all that about then gov'na?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 03:32:09 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 02, 2014, 02:03:11 pmQuote

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 03:38:28 pm
content: Neither. Where I'm from we call it "Löten".

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 03:39:35 pm
content: Quote from: david77 on May 02, 2014, 03:38:28 pmGesundheit.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 03:45:13 pm
content: QuoteEh.... you say tomato, I say tomato.Wait.With people spread out far across the world, you really can't indicate pronunciation like that. In my accent, I used to say "sod-er", but after hearing Dave in particular say the word so many times, I drifted toward "saw-der", which feels similar to my mouth without raising the eyebrows of my fellow AmericansOnly one problem - when you guys read "sod-er" and "saw-der" above, you'restillnot hearing them in your heads the way I do, because you pronounce "saw", and "er", and even "sod" slightly differently. So what's the point?I used to say /?s?d?/, and now I say /?s?d?/. And since I'm sure the forum software made a mess of those...and.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 04:14:35 pm
content: I think its just the North Americans that pronounce it differently (sodder). It seems to be 'solder' everywhere else in the world.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 04:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on May 02, 2014, 01:27:27 pmA clarification here: so you mean "saudering" as in "sohdering", or "saudering" as in "soddering"?Because I don't think I have ever heard "sohdering".

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:04:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on May 02, 2014, 01:37:38 pmYep,sodhas always sounded odd to me to. Am still not used to it.Ian.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:15:34 pm
content: QuoteThere appears to be no "L" in the root source word: "soudur". So perhaps pronouncing the silent-L is a continental affectation.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:19:41 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on May 02, 2014, 04:38:45 pmIt would be soddering

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on May 02, 2014, 05:15:34 pmYet compare with this:QuoteA similar root source word with no "L", yet we say "soldier" and not "soddier".So really, there is no winningAt least British English is consistent in pronouncing both solder and soldier in a consistent fashion--not that there is all that much consistency in English pronunciation in general

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:31:48 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on May 02, 2014, 05:24:42 pmBritish English diverged sometime after North America was settled. If you want to hear how the English sounded a few hundred years ago, listen to Americans.There was a movement in England to "correct" pronunciation, and they swept through and basically invented the accent and pronunciation you hear today. That's also why that general style of pronunciation is not ubiquitous through all of Great Britain. The English diverged. Everyone else just stayed as they were.English is such a screwed up language anyway. These inconsistencies in pronunciation are minor little details compared to the absolute train wreck the rest of the language is.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 05:40:03 pm
content: QuoteNo, because that is wrong.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 06:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on May 02, 2014, 03:32:09 pmWell stupidity does not adequately explain these cases, because they addressed the pronunciation in each case in a video, agreed that they were pronouncing it wrong, and basically said "I'm going to say it that way anyway, so get used to it." That's perfectly fine, they can choose to do that. I can choose to find it annoying and choose to not watch their videos, too. And, I've done so.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 06:46:54 pm
content: "L" is silent here.Soddering, to be sure. I think the bigger question is, "Regardless of how you pronounce it, is it acceptable to call solderingwelding?Am I the only one annoyed by that? I see that so often, I'm beginning to wonder if that is now acceptable? I've only seen it in text. Maybe they're pronouncing it"wedding?"

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 06:56:20 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 02, 2014, 05:31:48 pmI've never heard that before, but if you go back just a couple hundred more than you suggest, none of us could understand the language.Whan that Aprill, with his shoures soote....Languages evolve relative to proximity. With the shrinking of the world (air travel, telephone, internet etc) languages are actually beginning to meld.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 07:01:21 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on May 02, 2014, 06:46:54 pmYou canmeldtwo wires by soldering. It's incorrect to call it welding since welding requires melting of the base metals. Soldering dissolves the base metals and though it's essentially an alloying process, no base metal is ever melted. It would be no more correct to drop a piece of metal into a vat of acid, wait for it to dissolve, and then say that the metal was welded to the acid.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 07:14:50 pm
content: Everyone I know in person pronounces it 'sod-er', as an anecdote I am originally from the state of NJ (Not near NYC!), where most people pronounce things like 'water' as 'wore-der'.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 07:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: chipwitch on May 02, 2014, 06:56:20 pmI heard someone speak some of whatever you're talking about (or what I believe it to be) and it was nearly perfectly understandable when spoken, but virtually impossible to read. A thick Scottish accent is more different to modern US English than the English of 500-700 years ago.You might be talking older than that, and if you are then you're 100% correct. I remember reading Beowulf in high school and having a rough time with it even though it was translated.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 09:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: Slow Poke on May 02, 2014, 01:59:26 pmThat's just it Americans do speak the Kings English. King George III English, as after they got all uppity and wouldn't drink tea like civilised people and insisted on coffee that eats the end off the spoon,their English remained static while this side of the pond ours grew, so they have a more French sound to many words and also use many old word that have been dropped here like faucet which is late middle English and now would only be used in the brewing and hostelry industry here.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 10:07:35 pm
content: I have never heard of soldering refered to as "welding". It must depend on the community.I agree they are fundamentally different methods and not equivalent. Perhaps communities with only a minor connection to electronics can't tell the difference.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 10:20:15 pm
content: Dear old Frederick Forsyth had "The Jackal" weld some gun components to the underside of his car "using a large soldering iron" to hide it from border controls.Critics were raving about "his attention to detail" at the time,but that killed his credibility for me!

author: Hideki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 11:31:10 pm
content: Chinese (mis)translations use "welding" quite often. Probably because their grasp of the english language is close to zero, so they rely on imperfect translation software that keeps on making the same mistakes over and over.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 12:02:18 am
content: Quote from: MatCat on May 02, 2014, 07:14:50 pmI, too, am from NJ( close to NYC). I pronounce it sod-er and wauda. I do say solder in my head, just not when I speak. I bet if I keep listening to Dave, I will start pronouncing it solder and everyone I know will look at me strangely. Oh wait, they already do.Quote from: Hideki on May 02, 2014, 11:31:10 pmThat's alright, most Americans' grasp of the english language is close to zero. I have been out of NJ( close to NYC) for 25 years living in Florida and there is still no mistaking where I come from the moment I open my mouth. I have always thought the english language is a bit of a bastard language as even the word phonetic is not pronounced phonetically!!Of course, being from NJ( close to NYC), I bastard it up even more.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 12:11:26 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on May 03, 2014, 12:02:18 amPho - Net - IckPho as in phone, Net as in internet, Ick as in Tick (tock goes the clock) ??I pronounce soldering asSole-der-ringSole as in a shoes sole, Der like aussies say the end of water, and ring with a near silent r

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 01:56:04 am
content: Everytime I hear Dave or anyone else across the pond actually say and emphasize the letter 'H' it always reminds me of this clip from family guy (actual part starts @ 0:52):]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lich59xsjik

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 03:02:20 am
content: Quote from: Hideki on May 02, 2014, 11:31:10 pmThe fact that they use the same character for both probably has something to do with it...

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 05:45:36 am
content: Quote from: MatCat on May 03, 2014, 01:56:04 amlol

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 06:09:41 am
content: Quote from: chipwitch on May 02, 2014, 06:46:54 pmI think that may be a Chinese translation thing myself, I often see soldering referred to as welding but only ever in stuff translated from Chinese, or written in Chinglish.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 10:01:34 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 02, 2014, 05:31:48 pmI think you will find it was the other way round. English (there's no such thing as British English) was in use in England and many other countries for many years before America was settled. If anyone diverged it was America.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 10:04:33 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 02, 2014, 07:01:21 pmSoldering is joining two metals with a filler metal of a lower melting point.Welding is joining two metals with a filler metal of the same melting point.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 11:05:47 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on May 03, 2014, 06:09:41 amProbably a result of the translation programme not knowing the context as that's what we use to tell the difference, ie whether you are doing metal working or electronics.

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 12:38:21 pm
content: Quote from: Hideki on May 02, 2014, 11:31:10 pmThat could be it. In fact it's quite likely every example of it I've seen was from a poor attempt by a Chinese-speaking person to write in English. I don't get that... with over a Billion people making products targeting consumers all over the world, it seems they don't have any fluent in the languages of their consumers to write their manuals? If not, hire native speakers to translate their Chinglish for them. For the price of one decent scope, I'd be happy to do just a translation!

author: chipwitch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 12:43:16 pm
content: So..... anyone pronounce it "Kah-nyfe?"

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 02:42:23 pm
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 03, 2014, 10:01:34 amI think I'll find it's exactly as I said it was, at least as far as pronunciation and accent is concerned (which is what we're talking about). There was no such thing as an English accent until the English invented it well after the US was settled.http://www.livescience.com/33652-americans-brits-accents.html

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 03:10:56 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 03, 2014, 02:42:23 pmI thought we were talking about the strange way Americans pronounce the word solder ?Of course there is no such thing as an English accent when it comes to an Englishman speaking English.When an American speaks English, well that's another story and I don't want to go there :-)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 03:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 03, 2014, 03:10:56 pmRevisionist history at its finest.UK pronounced things just as the US does at one time, then it was intentionally changed. So you've got it backwards.... Americans are accent free, while the UK went and messed things up.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 03:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 03, 2014, 03:31:55 pmMaybe but we didn't 'invent' America until a long time after we 'invented' English so I think we have it right

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 04:15:09 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on May 02, 2014, 03:45:13 pmYou bring up some very valid points------this is what freaks Australians out when Brits & others allege that,for instance,we pronounce "Mate" as "Mite" & "Basin"as "Bison"!Of course,when an Aussie sees that,it reads like nonsense,because we don't pronounce the individual parts of the words the same way.Brits trying to sound like Aussies or Americans,(even professional actors) is usually hilarious.But what can you expect of people who pronounce "horses" as "horse-is"?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 05:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 03, 2014, 03:39:23 pmDon't you mean a form of Medieval German that's been modified over the centuries, then later reinvented the languages' pronunciation after America gained its independence?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 06:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 03, 2014, 02:42:23 pmI've heard about that before. I'm not sure how true it is and there's no way to prove it as there was no way to record sound back then.Received pronunciation would have only been used by the upper classes and while it's probably true some working class people tried to talk like that, it wouldn't have spread everywhere.In the north, most English accents are non-rhotic but they pronounce the a in most words such as class and pass like the Americians do, p-ass, kl-ass, where as in southern England we say p-arse and kl-arse.South western English accents are non-rhotic, they pronounce kart and smart in the same as they do in the US.There are differences in British accents in the pronunciation of words containing the letter U. In most parts of the England tube, new, and and tube are pronounced, t-you-n, n-you, t-you-be, except in parts of eastern England, mostly Norfolk, Suffolk and Lincolnshire, where they say t-oo-n, n-oo, and t-oo-be, although this is gradually dying out.In the north buck and book sound identical.There are parts of the UK where this gets mixed up, such as in counties where different pronunciations diverge. For example in Northamptonshire a mix accents from eastern England, northern England and southern England are found.Many people emigrated from Ireland to America so there are elements of Irish in US English.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 06:11:18 pm
content: Sodder.A lot the family I grew up around was from Southeastern Kentucky. I still tend to pronounce some words strangely. Such As "I really need to warsh the car."The Chinese constantly use "weld" in place of "solder", they also like to refer to 7 segment LEDs as "digital tube displays".

author: Mr Simpleton
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 09:18:15 pm
content: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/solderhttp://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/solder

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 11:00:35 pm
content: I'm Canadian, I've always pronounced it and heard it pronounced around me as 'soddering' without the 'L'.However, I frankly think that's wrong now.We don't pronounce 'welding' as wedding' , although a wedding is a welding of two , so to speakWe also don't pronounce 'molding' as 'modding', nor 'soldier' as 'sodier', nor 'sold' as 'sod' , so why should we pronounce 'soldering' as 'soddering' ??Clearly, it's just wrong to me now.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 11:35:37 pm
content: I pronounce it both ways. Cant decide on which one is actually good to use, so I use both. Typically usage is random though.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 01:31:17 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on May 03, 2014, 11:00:35 pmYour head will explode if you start thinking of pairs like "laughter" and "daughter" (which differ in spelling only by their first letters) or "comb" and "bomb", or "need" and "knead", "head" and "heed", and so on.there is no sense here. Pronouncing your words based on rules that fit every word will have you saying unintelligible gibberish immediately.the point of language is to communicate. so use the words and the pronunciations that match your audience, or you'll find your words wasted. silly things like "I know how to pronounce this word and no one else does" only lead to your listeners thinking a lot more about your pronunciation than what you're actually saying.

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 02:45:30 am
content: With all the things we're pummeled with on a daily basis that really does make a difference in the quality of the lives of people, invariably we get tangled up with whether or not somebody uses the word solder vs sodder? The whole argument is a waste of time and energy because everybody knows what's being said and communication is taking place so it's a completely pointless exercise that puts people on the same level as internet trolls and grammar Nazis. Now lets get back to fighting over something that matters....Aluminum vs Aluminium!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 03:53:09 am
content: More importantly: Arse vs ass.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 04:34:18 am
content: And with all of this thread, we still don't have "soddering" as an option in the poll. What's more, I think "souldering" and "soldering" sound the same

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 06:51:38 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 04, 2014, 01:31:17 amPeople trying to apply rules to the English language?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 06:56:03 am
content: Quote from: IanB on May 04, 2014, 04:34:18 amWell, people who had to settle on another choice would not be able to vote for that option, and I wouldn't want to reset the poll.Besides, I think saudering and soddering are pronounced pretty much the same.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 05:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on May 04, 2014, 06:56:03 amThen why not change it to "saudering/soddering"?I ask, as I haven't voted because I don't see them as identical, and don't think I'm the only one (don't quite see "sawd" as = to "sod"). Such a simple change would allow those that were looking for "sodder" to have a suitable choice, as it shows you do see the similarity close enough to be identical spellings to generate the same pronunciation.Should eliminate corrupting the existing data or having to perform a reset as well.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 06:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: ampdoctor on May 04, 2014, 02:45:30 amWell, that's pretty much decided. Aluminium is the official IUPAC spelling and is used by most of the world, while aluminum is a 'variant' spelling largely confined to the US and Canada. This is reflected in the Wikipedia entry - search for aluminum and you get redirected to the entry for aluminium.On the other hand, the IUPAC chose the American spelling for Sulfur, which was until recently spelt 'Sulphur' in British English.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 06:17:49 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on May 04, 2014, 06:10:50 pmFunny enough, I actually use European spelling quite often. Not on purpose. I quite often spell things like:colourflavourfibretheatrehumourmetrelitreetc etc.I'm not sure why. I think a lot of the technical papers and texts I've had to trudge through for work over the years used British spelling. A lot of the people I worked with over the years were Europeans too. I guess it just stuck. I try to catch it when I do it, but I rarely catch it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 07:14:13 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on May 04, 2014, 06:10:50 pmAnd in US English too. Just open up Google maps, point it at the continental USA, and enter "sulphur" as a search term...

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 07:20:51 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 04, 2014, 06:17:49 pmAnd I have found myself using BrEnglish for things like the collective singular "IBM have done..." vs. AmEnglish "IBM has done..."Somewhat influenced by a UK-based online forum (www,gearslutz.com), one of several I frequent.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 08:45:05 pm
content: In China there is no distinction between solder and weld. It'sHàn in pinyin

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 09:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on May 04, 2014, 08:45:05 pmBut there is a technical distinction. So anyone doing engineering or technical work must need to use additional descriptions to explain which one they mean.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 10:30:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on May 04, 2014, 09:56:56 pmExactly. Herein lies the problem. The people who blindly use the software program to translate rarely think of these things. Come to think of it, I should start proofreading and editing manuals for them.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2014, 11:02:13 pm
content: Quote from: Vgkid on May 02, 2014, 02:31:55 pmQuote

author: Jarrod Roberson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 12:57:51 am
content: The correct way to say it is "sodering" sod-er-ing, the "l" is silent.Why isn't this a choice in the poll?

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 01:00:33 am
content: Quote from: Jarrod Roberson on May 05, 2014, 12:57:51 amDon't you read threads before contributing to them, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 05:49:14 am
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 03, 2014, 10:04:33 amSome years back,when I got into oxy-acetylene welding,books from the main supplier of such gear in Oz referred to what is commonly known as "brazing" (using a torch & filler rod), as "braze welding" to distinguish it from the practice of brazing using a forge.Neither process,although they both fit your definition,is called "soldering".Then,just to confuse things,the same process,using silver alloy filler rodsiscommonly known as "silver soldering"!

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 06:50:31 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on May 05, 2014, 05:49:14 amIndeed, and these 'types of soldering is generally referred to as hard soldering, where as the tin lead variety is soft soldering !.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 09:09:03 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on May 05, 2014, 05:49:14 amI was taught that brazing was still soldering as the filler was usually brass ie softer than the metal being joined but this was referred to as hard soldering.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2014, 12:18:11 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on May 05, 2014, 12:05:07 pmWell, when I threw this poll up the sauder option and sodder were the same pronunciation in my mind, but maybe you are thinking it would be pronounced more like sowder?I guess these are the problems with talking about pronunciation over text lol

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 01:52:22 am
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 05, 2014, 09:09:03 amway i learned it was welding required the melting together of the filler with the base metal (or just the melting of the base metal if no filler is used)brazing and soldering, well, basically, the same thing. the processes and theories are all exactly the same, the base metal is not melted together with the filler. the only difference between brazing and soldering was the temperature at which it occurred,although i do not remember where soldering stopped and brazing began, but it is somewhere around the temperature where you would switch from a common plumbers torch to an o-a torch.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 10:29:48 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on May 06, 2014, 09:05:05 ambuggering iron? lol

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 12:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on May 06, 2014, 09:05:05 amShe lives in NY now but I'm not sure that she's from NY. That's a somewhat midwestern US accent, to my untrained ear. I'll listen closely next time I hear her and I'll update this if I think I'm wrong.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 01:21:27 pm
content: What about Salmon?It wasn't until my 20s that I ever heard an adult pronounce the L.And to go along with Cool HWhip, how about HWill HWheaton?So do you pronounce the L in these words?calmpalmhalfcalfchalktalkwalkcouldwouldshouldcolonelAnd what about the "F" that isn't in Lieutenant?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 02:04:23 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 06, 2014, 01:21:27 pmOz pronunciation,as close as I can get in written form.Salmon-----------Sam-onIn the next four,"al" sounds like "ar" as in "dark").calm--------------karmpalm--------------parmhalf---------------harfcalf---------------karfIn the next three,"al" sounds like "or" as in "bore" or "door".or "aw" in "squawk".*chalk-------------chorktalk---------------torkwalk--------------wawk*The next lot has the "oo" sound as in "wood",not that in "Moon"..could-------------koodwould------------woodshould-----------shoodNote,though,there is no "u" in "solder",And here is a weird one------"oulder" in shoulder is pronounced similarly to the "older" in solder

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 03:03:03 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 06, 2014, 01:21:27 pmcalm Ypalm Yhalf Ncalf Nchalk Ytalk Ywalk Ycould Nwould Nshould Ncolonel N

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 03:14:26 pm
content: No comments about "Leftennant"?calm Y (depends on how fast I say it)palm Y (depends on how fast I say it)half Ncalf Nchalk Ntalk Nwalk Ncould Nwould Nshould Ncolonel N

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2014, 03:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 06, 2014, 01:21:27 pmI take it you've been listening to Stewie Griffin of "Family Guy" again?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2014, 12:26:33 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 06, 2014, 01:21:27 pmEast coast?if so, how do you pronounce:cardadmomI mean even within the same country there are different pronunciations.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2014, 08:41:36 am
content: Is 'mom' really a word ?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2014, 12:34:09 pm
content: No I'm from everyone's favorite (or most hated) red state.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2014, 02:02:30 pm
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 07, 2014, 08:41:36 amAsk yer Mum!

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 01:24:28 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 07, 2014, 12:34:09 pmTX?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 02:31:44 am
content: Probably. TX is either the best state in the union, or the worst. Doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 03:04:29 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 08, 2014, 02:31:44 amLooking at the stupidity of some of the people around me*10^9Rick Perry couldn't think his way out of a wet paper bag!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 04:35:22 am
content: I love TX my wife is from there, just because of Perot, Bush junior,and Perry those are just people they don't represent the state... wait... hmm I guess they did and do.Kidding aside, I love TX lived there many years!

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 04:49:55 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 08, 2014, 04:35:22 amThere are a lot of good, kind, smart people here. Then you go to other places.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 04:53:33 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on May 07, 2014, 12:34:09 pmNorth Korea?

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 04:57:35 am
content: In New England, we don't drop the 'r's, we just re-purpose them:car = caidea = ideerdeer = deea

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 05:10:39 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 08, 2014, 05:01:36 amNo tomato paste?

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 05:47:32 am
content: To me tomato paste is water reduced tomatoes in a can, probably with salt. Ketchup is mostly corn syrup or sugar, with a bit of tomato and some spices.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 06:36:44 am
content: To be fair, in the US, we make a distinction between Jam, Jelly and Preserves. Jam is the mashed fruit in Jelly. Jelly itself is the spread formed from the juice of the fruit but is clear and has no visible fruit. Preserves are basically Jam but the fruit is not mashed.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 08:08:33 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 08, 2014, 05:01:36 amThen again,it happens on a smaller scale within countries,with a seeming urge to "homogenise"societies by wiping out regional differences.For instance,it's always been Peanut Butter in WA,even though 'tothersiders try to make us say Peanut Paste.When Fremantle & West Coast play each other in the AFL,it's aDerby,not a "Darby".People live inALbany,not "AWLbany"!!When we go for a swim we wearbathersnot "cossies"!We eatPolonynot "Devon sausage".When I was a kid,we'd never heard of Street's Ice Cream,or "Aeroplane Jelly"(Jelly in Oz is Jello in USA)It was Peter's for the Ice Cream,& Anchor or Lion for the Jelly.Most people in the Eastern States didn't know anything existed West of Bourke,so we didn't get the invasion of ES brands.Our Entrepeneurs in WA started throwing their weight around,& woke them up to our existence.Everything has gone downhill since!I've never seen any Oz jam labelled Jelly,except for the old "Apple Jelly"from years ago.Sometimes it's called "Conserve" which seems to refer to having large pieces cut up in the jam,rather thanchopped up fine."Preserves" are what your Granny used to make at home.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 08:46:16 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on May 07, 2014, 02:02:30 pm'Mom' is never used in place of Mum in the UK as far as I know.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 12:14:43 pm
content: QuoteI don't think Bill was talking about his mother.In more popular usage (at least in AmEnglish): "Mum's the word,"

author: Slow Poke
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 03:55:29 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 02, 2014, 02:03:11 pmDang, thisisimportant.Are you telling me, it's "Queen's English," not "King's English?"

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 03:58:50 am
content: Quote from: Slow Poke on May 11, 2014, 03:55:29 amI've heard it both ways, so I picked one.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 04:08:43 am
content: Quote from: London Lad on May 08, 2014, 08:46:16 amMaybe"Moom" sometimes!I just thought Mum might know!

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 04:20:43 am
content: When a Brit says "ma'am" it often sounds like the American "mom" to me. Always gives me a chuckle.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 04:55:20 am
content: Quote from: Slow Poke on May 11, 2014, 03:55:29 amIt's the Queen's English while the reigning monarch is the Queen. When the crown passes down to King Charles it will once again become the King's English.

author: London Lad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 08:50:32 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 11, 2014, 04:20:43 amThat is generally only used to address a woman who holds the rank of officer in the armed services or other uniformed organizations such as the police.We don't use it as a general term of respect to a woman as is done in the US

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 09:13:03 am
content: Right lets have some proper Queens English here it's" Soldering", let's have it said properly, so tonight's lesson is 1000 times written down like so:- " In future I will say Soldering"

author: Bluesharp
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:09:42 pm
content: Hello, I'm American. I have a long history with electronics, and half a Bachelor's degree in EE before switching to Computer Science. I have always pronounced the word "solder" as "sodder" since I was a teenager (1978). In fact, I had never hear it pronounced as as "solder" until a movie I watched in 2023. I understand that the English language has a lot of differences in pronouncing "English" words, such as "Aluminum". This is a particular annoyance of mine, since there are no extra characters in the word "aluminum" that would cause it to be pronounced "Al-u-min-ium". So I'm in the "sodder" and "al-um-i-num" camp. English is confusing because of the many alternately pronounced syllables in the language. Which is right and which is wrong? I depends on your language background and where you're from. I can't call it "correct" or "incorrect". It's just etymology and history. As long as we understand what is meant, who cares?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:13:45 pm
content: Quote from: Bluesharp on November 10, 2023, 10:09:42 pmReally? And there I was thinking it was spelt aluminium.Thanks for bringing this nine and a half year old thread back for that, though.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:31:25 pm
content: I think it is more like "sahder", with the o pronounced "ah" instead of like "sold" or " the cow's gone, I sold 'er".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 10, 2023, 10:13:45 pmIt's spelt aluminum in american english. And aluminium pretty much everywhere else. That would be why. Probably comes from customary pronunciation in america that has made it to the dictionary.Not that it's particularly interesting.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:36:13 pm
content: Where is the "f" sound found in "lieutenant"?It is spelled the same way on both sides of the Atlantic.(The answer is that is another side-effect of adopting a French word into English, similar to the silly pronunciation of "colonel".)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2023, 10:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 10, 2023, 10:32:12 pmFrom the 'net: Note that the "i" was added by Brits who liked to use Latin."The term 'aluminum' was created by the man who first identified the existence of the element, British chemist Humphry Davy. Davy originally referred to the element as 'alumium' but ultimately altered the name to 'aluminum'.The term 'aluminium' emerged around the same time as Davy’s 'aluminum'. This term seems to have been motivated by a desire to give the element a name that sounded more like classical Latin, which was in line with other known elements at the time whose names ended in –ium, such as magnesium and calcium.For the rest of the 1800s, both 'aluminum' and 'aluminium' were commonly used to refer to the element. Beginning in the 1900s, preferences for each term began to split among users. 'Aluminum' became the more popular name in American English, and 'aluminium' became the more popular name in British English. These preferences are still common today, but most chemistry organizations recognize both terms as acceptable."

author: msuffidy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 03:52:32 am
content: So like sauté?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 11:27:16 am
content: Quote from: Bluesharp on November 10, 2023, 10:09:42 pmHuh. Interesting. Americans not only pronounce it wrong but also write it wrong to cover up their mistake. Huh. Interesting.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 05:34:20 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on May 02, 2014, 05:31:48 pmGive this guy the prize!American English is more faithful to the language in Georgian/Victorian England than is modern English it is true...And as for being screwed up and complicated what do you expect? it isn't even the original language of the British Isles! More a case of what you get by shoving Latin, modern French, modern German, Welsh, Galic, Anglo Saxon to name but the main ingredients, into the blender for a few centuries and calling the mess that comes out a language.Even now there are personalities in the UK who try to reinvent the pronunciation of everyday words, and particularly place names. They are just bunch of elitist WaynekursDim bull beeWhat's wrong with just leaving shit alone?Never could understand why the Americanism for arithmetic is MATH though, is the contraction of mathematics not MATHS or are calculations considered a singular endeavour?Aluminium as I would say it is not the original name for the metal, going back to origins I believe that was indeed aluminum.It's all babel not worth fighting over.BTW. I say sold_er_ing FWIW but live and let live.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 06:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on November 11, 2023, 11:27:16 amStrictly speaking, it should be, alum in um.Going back to the original topic. I created a thread with some sound files of me attempting to say solder in different accents and butchering the US one quite badly.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/pronunciation-of-the-word-solder/

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 08:39:55 pm
content: Hey, how about my biggest rant about pronunciations, and that is the U.S.states of Kansas and Arkansas. WHERE DOES 'KINSAW' come from

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2023, 11:07:38 pm
content: Quote from: BILLPOD on November 11, 2023, 08:39:55 pmThat is easy, they are Indigenous names.The fact they are spelled similarly just comes from who was the first person to mention the names to a non-indigenous person.In the happy coincidence that they are people from that place, you might get the original name. If they are from somewhere else in North America, they probably got the name wrong.If, then, the person trying to render the name into a European language was French, Spanish, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Polish, Dutch, German, or whatever, the pronunciation became even further from the original.Brits love calling places something other than their real names, thus Roma becomes Rome, Beijing somehow became Peking,The Netherlands become Holland & Deutschland becomes Germany.The French call London Londres.Even within England, Why is Buckingham Palace "Buckin'm", But Southampton is pronounced as written?Further to that area, why is the abbreviation for Hampshire "Hants" & not "Hamps"?Why, when it comes to personal names, doesn't Cholmondeley Featherstone-Haugh call himself Chumley Fanshaw & be done with it?Or all the "Sinjin's" either call themselves that or stick with the perfectly legitimate "St John".Australia's 1950s PM Bob Menzies once expressed the desire for his name to be pronounced "Mingas" & was promptly labelled "Ming the Merciless".Some 1960s "rising star" in the Right side of Oz Politics was a "St John" & wanted to be called "Sinjin".His pretentiousness ensured he "sunk like a stone".

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 12:52:35 am
content: About half the placenames in the US can be attributed to Indian sources, yeah. And then variously anglicized or corrupted to the forms we know now.I live in Milwaukee, IIRC meaning "good waters", or a place thereof. Yet half way across the continent there's a Milwaukie. Which, I think may be more surprising in that, the root words were well enough conserved, despite the distance, despite the diversity of tribes inbetween, that they were transcribed nearly identically.Many places here in WI, were named by early French trappers, traders, etc.; hence we have "Beloit" (in typical brutish American, "bell-oight"), from what should be more "bel-wa"; or Fond du Lac ("fonnalack"), etc. These are mixed with Indian placenames (Wausau, Oconomowoc, Minocqua, Kewaskum, etc.), and later (English and American) names of varying descriptive (e.g. Whitewater, Beaver Dam) and eponymous (Madison, etc.) origin.Still other things weren't so lucky. "Geoduck", pronounced "gooeyduck", is a suggestively-shaped clam (also from the Pacific NW), which was even transcribed more-or-less correctly...and yet... when the written report made it back to the academic community, it wascopied incorrectly, and nobody's been bold enough to, just, put their foot down and say, yes we've been spelling it "this way" for so many years but come on, the actual source material spelled it "that way" and makes far more sense and can't we just---...But no, we can't. So we have many weird things throughout the world, because this process of transliteration, transcription, and corruption (whether written or verbal), occurs naturally.The one upside is, this process is a source of entropy, by which we obtain specific-sounding names ("River Avon", a watercourse in England), from generic terms ("river river").Tim

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 12:54:33 am
content: Saw the mentions of aluminium. OK I see that.How about "before a live audience"... instead of filmed (or whatever) in front of a live audience?Or, was it filmed before the audience was alive? They were dead then?Or about nuclear (from nucleus) that is pronounced as nukular.... even by presidents.OK let's agree not to talk about .gif pictures then.....

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 01:02:22 am
content: Quote from: richnormand on November 12, 2023, 12:54:33 amHave you ever said "it happened before my eyes"?"In front of" is a normal meaning of "before".Tim

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 01:10:12 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 12, 2023, 01:02:22 amAt this rate we're going to have the "near miss" argument shortly.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 06:06:48 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 11, 2023, 11:07:38 pmNot entirely true that. Buckingham is pronounced "Bucking'm" and Southampton is pronounced "Southamt'n".

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 07:37:11 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 12, 2023, 06:06:48 amThat is "how it is written" to me, & when the SOTON locals used the name, it seemed normal to me.I never realised that we in OZ (particularly WA) do clip the "p" a bit in such names, although not quite to the extent some Brits do.Then there are the type of Brits who call horses "horse is".

author: quadtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 06:32:47 pm
content: How about “nucleus” vs “nookulus” ?

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 07:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on November 12, 2023, 01:02:22 amYes I've heard it. Only in the US though. <<It happened right in front of my eyes>> is a more common expression here.English is very much a living language by its very nature.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 10:04:04 pm
content: Just as in baseball, "you could look it up".Definition of 'before your eyes''before your eyesor in front of your eyesif something happens before your eyes, it happens directly in front of you, and you cannot do anything to stop it or change it'"With a wrenching crack the stone statue collapsed before my eyes and crumbled to pieces at the bottom of the fountain."Easy Learning Idioms Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins PublishersIn this context, "before" and "behind" are antonyms. They can refer to space or time.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2023, 11:50:11 pm
content: In her Majesty Bri'ish English, should be pronounced as Sodderin'

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 02:48:40 am
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on November 12, 2023, 11:50:11 pmUnless you've been half asleep, it's "His Majesty".Also, British only knows two words: "sodding" or "soldering"

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 04:34:49 am
content: I know, but it's the tradition

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:24:01 am
content: Reminds me of my first wife, she was from Texas !One time visiting her folks, her brother asked, "y'all want a beer ?"I was, "What kind of beer is that ?"Mind you, English is my third language ...Cheers,rudi

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 07:51:20 am
content: Quote from: soldar on November 11, 2023, 11:27:16 amThe “aluminum” spelling (and presumably pronunciation) were coined by Sir Humphrey Davy, theBritishchemist who named it. (His first name for it was “alumium”, by the way, but he changed his mind.)The “aluminium” version came later when other scientists started inserting themselves into the issue. By the time the change happened, the “aluminum” spelling had established itself in USA.So this is just another example of Americans using an originally British word, which the British then later stopped using for whatever reason. “Soccer” is another example.Well, or people making fun of Americans for using words that not only originated in Britain, but whichcontinue to be used there today, like “ain’t”.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 08:03:08 am
content: Quote from: luudee on November 13, 2023, 05:24:01 amHeheheh!My mother (American) and stepfather (Swiss) took their honeymoon in the Appalachian mountains. Apparently, at a diner In Tennessee, after bringing the food, the waitress asked “Would you’uns be a-wanting’ anythin’ else?”As they told the story, my stepdad looked like “what on earth was that language?” and even my mom — a native English speakerand English teacher, didn’t catch it the first time around. Confused, the waitress repeated the query, and then my mom got it and “translated” for my stepdad. 😂Modern English has a smattering of second-person plural forms, to fill the vacuum left by “you” changing from being the plural to the singular:y’allyouseyouse guysyou’unsyinzAnd of course the phrases “you all” and “you guys”.(And probably more I’m not thinking of)

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 05:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 11, 2023, 06:15:22 pmhttps://www.spectraaluminum.com/aluminum-vs-aluminium.htmlAluminum vs. AluminiumAluminum is a metal with many advantageous properties and practical applications, but the history of its name in the scientific world is somewhat complicated. The legacy of this confusion is multiple spelling options that are still commonly used throughout the English-speaking world.The Scientific Naming of AluminumEnglish chemist Sir Humphry Davy named the metal, deriving the name from the mineral called alumina. This name was taken from the French, who had based it on alum, a white mineral that had been used since ancient times for dyeing and tanning.Sir Humphry was not immediately decisive about the name, initially spelling it alumium in 1807. He then changed it to aluminum, and finally settled on aluminium in 1812. His classically educated scientific colleagues preferred aluminium right from the start. It had more of a classical ring, and maintained consistency with many other elements whose names ended in -ium, like potassium, sodium, and magnesium, all of which had been named by Davy.Popular Use of AluminumThe aluminum spelling continued in occasional use in Britain for some time, though aluminium soon predominated. In the USA, the situation was more complex. Various dictionaries used different spellings over the years, despite the fact that US chemists used aluminium through most of the nineteenth century.In contrast to dictionary and scientific spellings, American newspaper archives show an interesting shift. Until the 1890s, both spellings appear in approximately equal numbers, though the aluminium version was slightly more common. After 1895, however, that proportion reversed quite substantially. By 1900, aluminum was twice as common as aluminium. In the following decade, the aluminium spelling crashed to a few hundred instances compared to nearly half a million examples of aluminum.The evolution in the USA from aluminium to aluminum took place progressively after 1895, when the metal became increasingly available and the word started to appear more often in popular writing. It is likely that people and journalists sought confirmation in Webster’s Dictionary, still the most influential work at that time, where aluminum was indicated as correct.Aluminum TodayThe official change in the US to the –um spelling happened quite late: the American Chemical Society adopted it in 1925, though this was clearly in response to the popular turn that had already taken place. The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) officially standardized on aluminium in 1990, though this has done nothing, of course, to change the way people in the US spell it for day-to-day purposes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:05:12 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on November 13, 2023, 05:55:11 pmSo as you see, it’s not nearly as simple as “Americans are dumb” like you and many people believe.Being in Spain, you of all people should understand the complexity and nuance of languages that now have far more native speakers outside the language’s country of origin. (Only about 10% of native Spanish speakers live in Spain.)

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:08:18 pm
content: I wish a Scott or Irishman would enter the thread and teach ye some lessons, ye cannae ken everything !

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:11:19 pm
content: Does anyone in the English-speaking world refer to the oxide as "aluminia" instead of "alumina"?(Not to be confused with the Danish porcelain company's trademark.)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:13:06 pm
content: QuoteBut do you ken ken hen?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 06:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 13, 2023, 06:11:19 pmBut you have soda => sodium, potash => potassium, Helios => helium, barite => barium, Titans => titanium, Magnesia => magnesium, Strontian => strontium, beryl => beryllium, and so on.Broadly, "-ium" is just a generic ending that means "related to" or "obtained from".I think the reason aluminum got preferred over aluminium is that aluminium is a bit of a mouthful to say. Similar to the reason that aeroplane became airplane, I would guess.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 07:08:06 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on November 13, 2023, 06:13:06 pmYou got me there, no feecking idea.My dad is Scott, but from Dundee, his accent is pretty soft, I guess 30 years in spain softtened him further, nowhere close as Glasgow's

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2023, 09:09:12 pm
content: Dau ddiwylliant wedi'u gwahanu gan iaith gyffredin....Wrth gwrs y peth sy'n berwi piss goruchafwr Americanaidd yn fwy na dim yw eu hatgoffa mai Saesneg yw'r iaith maen nhw'n ei siarad....

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 07:47:12 am
content: Of course, this also never gets old !Please, I don't intend top offend anybody, it's a funny thing I found on the net ...In metric, one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade—which is 1 percent of the difference between its freezing point and its boiling point. An amount of hydrogen weighing the same amount has exactly one mole of atoms in it. Whereas in the American system, the answer to ‘How much energy does it take to boil a room-temperature gallon of water?’ is ‘Go fuck yourself,’ because you can’t directly relate any of those quantities.Cheers,rudi

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 05:57:54 pm
content: Thanks for that RudiAnother gift the British gave America! the system of imperial measurements that the British themselves have even largely jettisoned in favor of the metric system: which although itself isn't perfect, is almost infinitely better: no freaking conversion factors.President Jimmy Carter tried to introduce the metric system in the US for general everyday use, however that was viewed as heresy, so he just gave up, and Ronnie Regan wouldn't have such commie bullshit and abolished the Metric Board completely: (Congress had passed the Metric Conversion Act in 1975, under president Ford, which declared metric as the preferred system of the United States, and the U.S. Metric Board was created to implement the conversion).All because of the English wreck of a system of weights and measures that the US still likes to cling on to(You're welcome)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pm
content: Once again, an ignorant comment from a foreigner about American weights and measures.1. The United States went officially metric in 1959 (but forgot to tell anyone).2. Current US law (from 1975) requires metric units on retail packaging, but allows "customary units" (such as ounces) on the label in the same type size.3. "Imperial Units" are a feature of the British Empire and Commonwealth. The United States has "customary units" that are similar but not identical.4. The most important historical difference between Imperial Units and US customary units is probably the gallon: The US customary gallon is 3.8 liters, while the Imperial Gallon is 4.54 liters.5. The US President who abolished the Metric Board, absent popular clamor for metric adoption, is spelled "Reagan". "Regan" is one of the evil daughters in "King Lear".

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 06:50:03 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pmSome may be unaware that the Imperial gallon is a decimal unit, since 1 Imp. gal. weighs exactly 10 lb by definition

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 06:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 14, 2023, 06:50:03 pmThat makes the US customary gallon a binary unit, since 1 US gallon = 8 US pints weighs approximately 8 lb.I tried to convince some Japanese co-workers that the inch was more modern than the centimeter, since inches are usually divided into binary and hexadecimal fractions, e.g. 16ths.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 06:58:34 pm
content: I blame the french,if they hadnt been ripping us off by flogging us there plonk in smaller gallons then none of this confusion would have existed.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 08:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_ReganRegan was the 66th United States Secretary of the Treasury from 1981 to 1985 and the White House Chief of Staff from 1985 to 1987 under Ronald Reagan.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 08:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:54:55 pm1 US gallon = 3.785 litres8 lb = 3.627 kgNot that close.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 08:44:39 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on November 14, 2023, 08:22:42 pmWhich part of "approximately" did you not understand?The actual definition of a US customary gallon is its volume, defined as 231 in3.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 08:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on November 14, 2023, 08:18:21 pmReference was made to "Ronnie", a common nickname for Ronald Reagan.Weights and Measures are not under the Department of the Treasury, nor the White House Staff, but under the Department of Commerce.Malcom Baldridge Jr was Secretary of Commerce under Reagan until his death in 1987 caused by a rodeo accident.He was succeeded in office by William Verity Jr, who was not so interesting as Mr. Baldridge.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 10:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pmThe big advantage of the metric system even for countries which don't "customarily" use it is in the fact that for stuff that is normally supplied in "gallons" of either flavour, each end only needs to remember one standard conversion instead of a weird one. We know that a 200 litre drum is for all intents & purposes 44 gals (IMP) or 55 gals (US).Having two sets of "gallons" is needless confusion.Back in the day, people in Imperial countries were surprised when US cars turned out to have better fuel economy than assumed when reading US road tests, & Americans were disappointed in that of Brit cars if relying on UK road tests.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2023, 11:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pmAnd once again a post from the Tosser.Not nice when people make clichéd generalisations about your nation and its culture is it Timmy?

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 01:36:55 am
content: Though 'mericans measured everything in megatons

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2023, 06:09:36 am
content: Quote from: Xena E on November 14, 2023, 11:55:56 pmNo, it isn't.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 10:00:19 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:41:04 pmBut the real push came when (President Gerald) Ford signed the Metric Conversion Act in 1975. We spent hours and hours in school being "re-educated" on how to use the metric systemand they even had "educational" animated commercials during Saturday morning TV cartoons, e.g.After a few years, they eventually gave up.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 11:17:08 am
content: I do find it odd the way the US has still been somewhat reluctant to change to metric units, in terms of everyday usage. I suppose peope prefer to stick with what they know and it's often not worth the trouble. The UK hasn't completely changed to metric either. Milk is still sold by he imperial pint and road signs are in miles and yards.I can't see it changing any time soon, as it's even easier to convert than ever. Digital speedo's in cars can easilly be configured to work in either unit and it's easy to lookup the conversion online. I still remember the most common converstions to three significant figures: a pint is 568ml (imperial) or 473ml (US), a pound = 454g, an inch = 25.4mm, a mile = 1.61km, which I still find useful.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 02:49:04 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 16, 2023, 11:17:08 amThat’s the thing: for many applications the units of measurement are functionally irrelevant. For example, whether it’s a 16 fl oz soda bottle or a 500ml bottle: it’s the “I want a 1-2 serving bottle of coke” size. And indeed, the big soda bottles (the “to share at the table at home” size) in USA have been 2 liters (and the less common 1 and 3 liter sizes) for as long as I’ve been alive (>40 years). The small bottles have started transitioning to 500ml in recent years.I suspect some of the delay is simply the cost of retooling all the bottling plants (and the rest of the supply chain). The cost of retooling packaging lines is why beer canned in Hawaii uses a type of can that’s been obsolete on the mainland for decades: Hawaii’s only can maker makes the old style, and I guess the cost of refitting a factory in Hawaii is much higher than on the mainland, so they just kept it.Similarly, think of how aviation still uses feet for altitude in almost all countries: it’s a functionally abstract unit. No pilot actually needs to know what the feet mean as such; the important thing is maintaining the correct flight level (hundreds of feet), sink rate (feet/min), and then they get a feel for “100 feet means I’m about to touch down”. There’s no benefit in a unit that’s familiar from other contexts, like meters on land. The effort to remake all the aviation maps and stuff in meters, and the risk of confusion during the transition period aren’t justified by the essentially zero benefit from switching.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 03:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on November 14, 2023, 06:54:55 pmI love to point this out to some people who do programming stuff but irrationally hate the US measurement system.Maybe the biggest hurdle in "your" system is the mixture of base-2, base-10 and base-12 systems; for example inches often divide in binary fractions, but on the other hand 12 inches is foot; if this was 16 inches instead, it would be justperfectsystem for us computer-minded. Then again stuff like milli-inches aka mils, base-10, is thrown into mix.The base unit is not problem, and binary fractions are not problem either, just... different, sometimes better sometimes worse. But it's the mixture of bases which makes the whole system a bit awkward for us outsiders.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 05:43:11 pm
content: The ancient Mesopotamian mathematicians, whose notation was difficult for fractions, used base-60 notation, since it has more prime factors (2, 3, and 5).Decimal has only two: 2 and 5. Hexadecimal has only one: 2.Sexagesimal lives on in angular degrees and clocks; do not confuse it with hexadecimal (base 16).https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/roots-of-unity/the-joy-of-sexagesimal-floating-point-arithmetic/

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 12:20:56 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 16, 2023, 11:17:08 amAgreed on both points. But rationality aside, it all has a very strong cultural, and even political aspect to it. So after the usual rational arguments, it's pretty pointless to discuss."Politically" speaking, since the metric system didn't come from the US, I don't really see how they would have switched to it. They have just merely been tolerating it ever since they had no choice due its wide adoption in science.And I'm not saying that it's good or bad. Just how it is. And while I too find it somewhat "odd", none of us would probably want others to dictate which language we should speak in our own country, so this is kind of similar.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:10:29 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 16, 2023, 02:49:04 pmI remember buying (and returning for the deposit) Pepsi in glass quart bottles that didn't even have metric equivalents on themBut yeah, I think the very first everyday item I remember seeing in metric units was soft drink containers. And frankly, I think that's still the only everyday item I still see in metric units 50+ years later.Biggest inconvenience for me of having two systems: needing two sets of tools to work on cars. (And keeping the metric and "standard" sockets and wrenches separate in the tool box / bag)

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 11:26:10 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 16, 2023, 02:49:04 pmI feel somewhat unpatriotic every time I speak ill of our (almost) uniquely American measurement units, but working with fractional inches is a real challenge sometimes.- This 9/16 wrench is a little too big, maybe I need 17/32 or a 1/2- This board is 5 and 7/8 inches long, so if I want to cut it in half, each piece will be 2 and 15/16 inches(Mentally, I would do the second problem as either 40/8 + 7/8 = 47/8 ... divide by 2 ... 47/16 inches, or alternatively, 1/16 less than 3 inches)

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 12:32:11 pm
content: An oddity: Belgium, being an all-metric country, uses mile, half-mile, and quarter-mile (though disguised as metres) to display distances on motorway signs:one mile:herehereherehalf-mile:herehereherequarter-mile:hereherehere

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 03:51:56 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on November 17, 2023, 11:26:10 amI thought you just use1/1000of an inch, rather than small fractions. I have some calipers which measure in increments of 0.0005", in imperial mode. What's confusing is Americans call1/1000, a mil, yet us Brits will often say mil as an abbreviation for millimetre. We say thou for1/1000.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 04:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 17, 2023, 03:51:56 pmI thought you just use1/1000of an inch, rather than small fractions. I have some calipers which measure in increments of 0.0005", in imperial mode.Sure, if I'm measuring using calipers, but tools (wrenches*, sockets, etc.) and "non-precision" measuring devices (rulers, squares/triangles, etc.) are still in units of 1/2s, 1/4s, 1/8s, etc.I'm not sure that measuring a "mystery nut" with calipers (0.4375) and then converting that measurement into a decimal number (7/16) to pick the appropriate wrench would speed things up* sorry: "spanner"

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 04:26:11 pm
content: Yeah, sometimes using decimal system and sometimes binary fractions is really the worst part. I also don't understand the masochism which goes into preferring weird stuff like 7/16" instead of 8/16" = 1/2" when the latter would work equally well. Other than that, I have no worries using an inch as an unit.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 05:10:57 pm
content: Calipers that measure in 1/128 inch increments do exist, but I prefer a dial calipers with 0.001 inch increments for my purposes, since we were all drilled in decimal expressions for binary fractions in elementary school when I was young.By the way, a common expression for 0.0001 inch is a "tenth", short for "tenth of a thousandth", and a common alternate expression for 0.001 inch = 1 mil is a "thou".

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 06:47:44 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on November 14, 2023, 07:47:12 amI remember my Science teacher explaining how each system was made, he always freaked out about Imperial units, specially if anything or anyone called out the Farenheits!- 0 Celsius is where pure water frozens, 100ºC where it boils, under 1atm pressure.- 0 Kelvin is the absolute "cold" in physics.- While we had all those rational units, Sir Farenheit put a bucket of water to boil somewhere in the woods, while drunk as f***, went to a nearby tree to take a piss and shouted, "Fuck yeah, I'll call it 212ºF!!".Then he came back to civilization just like Moses and the ten commandments! And for some damn reason everyone decided it was OK to adopt it without questioning anything!(He usually came with new ideas about how Sir Farenheit might have gotten into it)Ahh that guy was crazy, but funny as hell!

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 06:59:41 pm
content: Until the advent of Youtube I was completely unaware that Americans pronounced soldering incorrectly

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 07:44:54 pm
content: Anders Celsius (1701 to 1744) invented the only thermometer that had 0 at boiling, and 100 at freezing.Many thought it a misnomer to re-name the Centigrade scale (0 at freezing and 100 at boiling), but it conserved the letter "C".https://www.astro.uu.se/history/Celsius_eng.htmlFor personal comfort purposes, the 0 to 100 range on a Fahrenheit (spelled correctly) thermometer is a better match to human biology than is 0 to 100 Celsius.Many years ago, when I turned 32, I started converting my age to Celsius. A few years after that, I started converting it to degrees Réaumur (q.v.), but now I convert it to radians.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 07:45:36 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on November 14, 2023, 07:47:12 amSo let's stop right here - you think calorie is an SI unit? I have bad news for you - you have totally proved the opposite. In fact it's thoseimperialunits that try to be more concretely related to everyday things (sometimes successfully, sometimes not), which is exactly why you picked this non-SI calorie heresy - you felt it'suseful. This is also why they are popular.Therealargument for SI units is not that the value of one unit is somehow more concrete, because it usually isn't - it's that when you start to calculate something a bit more complex, then you don't need to apply conversion factors all the time.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 08:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: luudee on November 14, 2023, 07:47:12 amAnd in the Imperial system, 1 gallon of water weighs 10 lb, and requires 10 Btu to heat it up by 1°F. Every system has its reasons. People don't just make things up arbitrarily.The real challenge with traditional systems and science is that the mechanical equivalent of heat was only discovered around 1850, and traditional measurement systems were in existence long before that. As a result, energy units like Btu and ft-lbf were always going to be misaligned.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2023, 02:56:54 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on November 17, 2023, 06:47:44 pmIn my mind the difference in Fahrenheit and Centigrade is arbitrary. I don't know of any calculations or conversions which are easier with one system, than the other. Kelvin is easier, because it doesn't involve negative numbers, but the same is true of the Rankine scale.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 02:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 17, 2023, 06:59:41 pmAnd indeed, since we aren’t pronouncing it incorrectly*, you can simply consider your pre-YouTube knowledge to be OK.*because different ≠ incorrect