Overcoming the "Fear of Sharing" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2014, 11:28:15 pm
content: Im working on a project now which I know will be of interest to others and (at least I think so) could really benefit from being open source hardware. In early prototyping stage I just have this insane fear of sharing anything about itFor instance, Im doing most of the work in Altium Designer and I have some cool 3D renderings of the board which I wanted to post in "What are u working on right now (electronics related and with picture please)?" - but I just think people will copy it before I get around to make a first prototype... Even most likely no one will care a millisecondDoes anyone else have this deep fear of "sharing"?.. how to overcome it?PS: I might just be a sick sick dude, but I just have to ask...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2014, 11:55:57 pm
content: There's a principle at work here. Something along the lines of Occam's razor, or the Peter Principle. I'm sure it's named, I just can't think of it right now.To put it simply...Your shit sucks. My shit sucks. Everything sucks. Always has, always will. Someone already did it, and better.So why care?Cynicism aside... you can also share little bits of things. A picture is unlikely to be descriptive enough to be treacherous. Full schematic sheets perhaps less so. Maybe there's a neat circuit principle you uncovered that you'd like to talk about in general terms; you can pull that out and play with it, no need to take the specific example.If it's NDA stuff, mind that even speaking in euphamisms may not save you; depends on the terms.Tim

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 12:09:39 am
content: I've heard this theory that if you tell the world about the current progress of a project, the same neural pathways indicating accomplishment are fired, and you get less motivation to work on the project as a result. If anyone knows the source of this claim, please tell.And then there's the fear of being judged by other people. Takes one to know one, though. I know I would judge your shit, so why wouldn't you judge mine?

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 12:13:10 am
content: Your letting fear and/or ego get in your way. Make you mind up if you want to share or not. Can't have fame hiding your light under a bush.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 12:31:00 am
content: Quote from: gcardinal on May 21, 2014, 11:28:15 pmWhy do you care if people will copy it?

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 01:18:17 am
content: I say, go for it. If it can be done, it has been done. The best you can do is out-design and out-free the cheap clones, and undercut the better commercial equivalents. Unless there's a very real potential to monetize your product, you'll get far more traction by putting out a good free design.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 03:10:19 am
content: Keep in mind information ages. Someone may have done it before, but it may be old so it's time for a refresh or a different perspective.I can watch EE's and hobbyists talking in front of an oscilloscope all day long. I don't care if it's a little repetitive. I just love it. I'm sure a lot of people around here feel the same way.

author: mjkuwp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 03:55:56 am
content: I have shared a couple of projects. I did not publish anything until it was done to a certain point. I had a hard time deciding at which revision level to release the information.To a degree, I feel ethically bound to share the project since I have received so much help from reading forums, looking at other published CAD files and even getting help from the manufacturer of the dev kit. Share and share alike.My designs cannot be monetized easily so in terms of $$ it does not matter. I cannot say how I would feel about a design that I could sell. I guess in that case I would not likely publish until it was put up for sale.

author: gcardinal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 09:04:28 am
content: Thanks to everyone who replied for some good pointers!It really gave me something to think about. And taking all the feedback in, I think my main problem is this:Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 21, 2014, 11:55:57 pmYes, it dose and I know itI have 15+ experience as a web developer, and I have no fear at about sharing any code or talking about any of my project openly. With time I have build enough confidence in what I do that I just know "Its a good shit". But with electronics I started just a year or so ago - so to say Im a noob is an understatement. But the reason I started, is because I saw a strong need for a product I'm now working on - its a more of a "turn key solution" that many makers could benefit from. It is also very cheap and exactly type of product cheap copies are made fromSuper crudely made, THD components only with clearance that meets even the cheapest PCB manufacturing.It boils down to one simple thing - for anyone who knows electronics it will take a day or two to put it together and it will probably be better that what I have done so far.But I really do want to share and I will post as soon as I get my current version of PCB printed and assembled.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 09:42:16 am
content: Personally, I don't give a damn. If you copy my stuff, well, it means it's well enough to interest you, so this means I am doing a better job than you. So please, feel free to copy anything you like, there's nothing secret in assemblying COTS.Clearly, if we talk about different environments,such as silicon-level design, I agree on some grade of secretness.I want to tell you a story on how crazy this things can go.Our product had a USB port, which could be used to update the internal software of the thing.Well, our management thought that a simple non-user-reachable button was not safe enough to prevent unwanted access to the device memory.So, at the end of the day, the solution was this: on boot, the D+and D- of the USB were connected to two internal ADCs in the uC, and a couple of pull-up resistors were hooked between D+,D- and two GPIOs. So, when a proper 4-resistor interface was connected on the USB port, the system was able to identify the voltage ratio AND the equivalent Thevenin resistor of the thing.If the pattern was correctly recognized, the next boot would have been done via USB.I prefer NOT to tell you all the problems we had to test this functionality in production; component tolerance played a very bad role.This is plainly C-R-A-Z-Y.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 12:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: gcardinal on May 21, 2014, 11:28:15 pmWhat benefit do you expect making it OSHW at the design stage will make?Many people only release their projects files once they have completed the project, and usually shipped it if they are selling kits etc.If you think people will just steal the idea itself, then IME that fear is almost always unfounded. As most people lack the motivation and/or skill to pull it off, especially since they have to start from scratch.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 01:09:20 pm
content: I wouldn't recommend releasing something (that you intend to finish) in unfinished state, as it will potentially waste a lot of people's time all figuring out the same issues by themselves.If you're actively looking for feedback, or are unlikely to ever get round to finishing it ( or developing beyond your own requirements), fine, but make it very clear what state it's in, as people are in general lazy and are looking for a ready-to-use solution.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 01:23:10 pm
content: Quote from: gcardinal on May 21, 2014, 11:28:15 pmWell perhaps when the development of whatever it is is completed and it works as intended, you'll be less apprehensive about "sharing" it. However if whatever it is is even so much as moderately ambitious, just don't expect much in the way of valuable return, even in the long term. Feeding parasites does get boring real quick.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 03:23:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 22, 2014, 12:41:10 pmTake scopes for example. Back in the day, every scope -- any test equipment really -- came with at least a good detailed block diagram and circuit description, and often, complete schematics, centerfold style! Can you build one from that? With some trouble, yes (something like a VTVM, easy, but a whole Tek 545, well, you'll have quite a project going if nothing else..). Did anyone? No, not really. Probably a lot of kits were copied for obvious reasons (designed around simplicity and ease of assembly), but nothing that put the sellers out of business (at least until societal change did). But the kit gear sucked, too. You could build a Heathkit kit, but Tektronix -- even if they kitted one for you? Ha.So who cared? Competitors sure as hell picked up opposing hardware and inspected it thoroughly. At lest, I would. But copy a circuit? Get caught instantly! Copyright or patent infringement and you're screwed.The major difference in the present case is, not being a major corporation without clear competitors makes defending a copyright difficult. People all going off to build the thing, unlikely, but a few keen people looking fr a buck, perhaps? Who knows.Tim

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 09:39:35 am
content: If you're thinking of commercialising the idea - go and file aProvisional Innovation Patent( around AU$90 )That will protect you for 12 months in all WIPO regions. If you haven't decided by then - well you can rewrite your patent and try again - or file for a full patent in your preferred regions.In any case - no-one else can patent your idea - as you have a registered date of first filing - but they can copy if you haven't formally exploited/protected it by then,

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 04:12:42 pm
content: I've opened quite a few pieces of software that I've written, and, if what you're doing is useful to people, they will latch on and help/criticize you at about a 90/10 ratio. The 10% are extremely vocal, extremely opinionated, and have absolutely no issue spending their time tearing others down. Forget those dorks, they are angry because of something else, not because of anything you've done.The helpful/supportive 90% are usually quite happy to contribute and offer advice. Sometimes it's hard to take it as constructive advice, even when it's constructive; depends on your personality. I still tend to take dissent as attack, even as I know, rationally, that it's not.If your plan is to open the stuff at any point, I think you'll be better off the sooner you do it. Once certain things are designed, it's really difficult to change them, so get the input early and choose the right design(s) early. The whole project will be better off.The hesitation to open things is natural. To me it felt like taking off a bullet-proof vest while I'm surrounded by gunmen; it felt like I was making myself vulnerable. Turns out it's quite freeing, knowing that what you're doing is of interest to others. If what you're doing isn't of interest to others, then a) maybe it really won't be useful to you, either, and b) it's just like you never opened it in the first place.

author: nuno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 04:46:22 pm
content: I guess you have to decide if its some project you want or not to commercialize, and in what "form" (closed? open?); then you know if you want to keep it secret or not. As to "feeling guilty" of not sharing because so many have shared with you, you don't have too, because you can share in a whole lot of other ways, from sharing specific techniques to help someone on a forum. That's how I see things, I separate both.

author: ConnorGames
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 07:04:47 pm
content: I think this is perhaps the biggest plus to sharing. You will get free help from lots of people. I never report bugs or suggestions to manufactures of closed-source software, but if it's open, I feel like I can help more than just the pocketbook of the person who makes the software/hardware by reporting (or even fixing) a bug, and I do. The secret to your project is not the schematics, whichanyonecan andwillreverse-engeneer, but your community. The fact that you are responsible for developing your project, and that you can support it, and improve it, will make many people buy from you instead of getting a clone. I buy real arduinos etc. not because they are any better than a clone, but because I am supporting people who genuinely want to do good, not just make a quick buck.