All about Keithley DMM7510. Bugs and features, recipes, advice, notes. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 06:47:22 pm
content: AnalogRelay*Secondary measurement without relay clicks -https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/all-about-keithley-dmm7510-bugs-and-features-recipes-advice-notes/msg2180195/#msg2180195*Additional information about the relay -https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keithley-dmm6500/msg2022019/#msg2022019DCV*An input of 10 MΩ in the range of 0.1 V and 1 V creates an offset voltage of 5-6 μV and additional noise. Do not use this input impedance for accurate measurement.No solution.-https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=141241DCI*Measuring current from sources with low internal resistance gives a big error. -https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=141262Digi V*The input frequency band does not depend on the sampling frequencyand depends only on the range. -https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/all-about-keithley-dmm7510-bugs-and-features-recipes-advice-notes/msg2710538/#msg2710538*At high digitizing speeds (> 200kSps), noise in the 0.1V range is very different from white noise.No solution.-https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/all-about-keithley-dmm7510-bugs-and-features-recipes-advice-notes/msg2609100/#msg2609100Temperature*Does not support measurements for Pt1000.No solution.*When measured from a thermocouple, it does not measure the temperature of the cold junction.Solution-https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/all-about-keithley-dmm7510-bugs-and-features-recipes-advice-notes/msg2233422/#msg2233422DigitalDigi V; Digi A*Parameter dmm.APERTURE_AUTO does not work as described in the documentation.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/all-about-keithley-dmm7510-bugs-and-features-recipes-advice-notes/msg2648655/#msg2648655*The position of each sample on the timeline has a virtual error due to the transfer of the internal timeline to the external.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keithley-dmm6500/msg2140273/#msg2140273Programming*Low data reading speed via remote interface (v1.7.0). I could not get more than 800 KB/s (<7% 100MB Ethernet). This is about 50 KS/s (8 bytes of data and 8 bytes of time for 1 count). The processor inside the device allows you to work at higher speeds.No solution.*The warm-up status on the remote interface can only be known once. The program launched the second time will not be able to get this status.No solution.-https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=138795*NTFS flash drive is not supported, only FAT32 works.No solution.-https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=140287Firmware bug`s fix history1.7.0Improved remote control of the device:1. Data reading speed increased 3 times to 60 KSamples per second. (When reading a large buffer, the reading speed at the beginning is greater than the reading speed at the end.My error.)2. Reading data digitized at high speeds (1 MHz) is performed without a preliminary long delay.3. Virtal front panel works much better. If you return to the device using thehttp://IP_Device/front_panel.htmllink, you can open a window without a menu. It looks great on a smartphone))Other:4. The measurement block (trigger.BLOCK_MEASURE_DIGITIZE) now has the same name for the Measure and Digitize modes. (Just as it is done in the DMM6500).5. The labels on the vertical axis on the graphs have become much better readable.New bugs:DigiV writes a large buffer with a pause in the middle. -https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=1420311.6.7Link`shttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-731-keithley-dmm7510-7-5-digit-multimeter-teardown/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keithley-dmm7510-7-5-digit-multimeter-review-teardown-experiments/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/7-5-digit-bench-dmms-comparison/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keithley-dmm7510-smu-2450-2460-problems/https://imgur.com/gallery/Wbx7q

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 07:07:30 pm
content: Brad O I will be very grateful for the answers about 7510.1. DataSheet promises 140,000 measurements per second via LAN (measurement + time). So far I was able to get a maximum of 15,000. What can I configure to get the reading speed stated in the datasheet? Binary mode is on.2. How can you remotely know if the warm_up period has passed or not? Is there any flag or status for this?3. I managed to get the error of measuring time beyond 20ns during the first 2sIt seems to me that these outliers occur at random times and are not related to the first 2s. I also saw peak to peak emissions on the order of 900ns on a sample of 8MS.4. How can I reset the device without turning off the power? I notice that if the device stopped working as needed (does not respond via the network or something strange responds), then you can fix it only by turning off the power. It is very uncomfortable. We must wait again for an hour and a half. Resetting from the touchscreen does not help: (

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 08:10:03 pm
content: I see a clear periodicity. Every 5s is a new failed time.Does this mean that data is selected at the wrong moment in time? Or is it a timeline problem and you can ignore them?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2019, 09:38:16 pm
content: Current and voltage measurement without relay clicks. This is possible if you select secondary measures in accordance with the tables below:

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 02:21:25 pm
content: When measured from a thermocouple, it does not measure the temperature of the cold junction. See the first picture.A possible solution to this problem is indicated in the second picture.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 09:06:35 pm
content: New bug`s: The problem of changing the size of the buffer.UPD: To repeat the bug for the newly turned-on device, you need to repeat the script twice. But between operations you need to disconnect from the device and reconnect. The red arrow indicates the location of the reconnection.UPD2: The maximum size that can be obtained after the appearance of the bug is only 7997000.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 08:00:29 pm
content: New bugs DMM7510 (features):And there is nothing to complain about. Branded short Keythley 6820.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 08:07:33 pm
content: If you have access to the Keythley DMM7510 please check to see if you have the same bugs.I'll be very grateful.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2019, 02:02:53 pm
content: The device is mocking me. I can’t understand how it works.I was trying to figure out how to control the aperture for DigiV. To do this, I applied a rectangular signal with a frequency of 400 kHz from the generator (high level [2.5V] 90% of the time; low level [-2.5V] 10%).And he turned on the digitization with the same frequency of 400 kHz. (frequencies are not synchronized). The period is 2.5 μs. This means that the aperture can be 1 or 2 μs. And Auto should correspond to 2 μs.And I was hoping to see two types of graphs.BUT!!!! I see 3 types of graphs. The graph when installing Auto Aperture is not similar to the 2 μs graph .... It is rather similar to the graph when the samples go through 1.25 μs. But this is only an assumption. In fact, I do not know how it is done in the device.Though disassemble this miracle box and become an oscilloscope on the DAC

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 12:05:38 am
content: Measured the cutoff frequency in DigiV mode.The cutoff frequency does not depend on the sampling frequency.For ranges: 0.1 V; 1 V; 10 V cut-off frequency: 600 MHzSee the picture.For the 100V range, the cutoff frequency is 7.5 kHz.For 1000V, the cutoff frequency is 17.5 kHz.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 07:54:02 am
content: The quite limited frequency response in the 100 V and 1000 V ranges is a bit disappointing. Especially the low cut of for 100 V is odd, as there is the same divider and just the amplifier in x 10 mode instead of x 1. This corresponds to the 1 V and 10 V ranges, that seem to be fine to much higher frequency.For 1 MSPS sampling the Nyquist limit is at 500 kHz - so there should be large drop in this range. If looking at more than just the pure RMS or peak to peak values, there should be signs of aliasing. So how does the waveform look for something like a 550 kHz signal, when measured at 1 MSPS.It looks like there is no anti aliasing filter, not even a fixed one (e.g. 400 kHz) for 1 MSPS sampling.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 08:54:40 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on September 27, 2019, 07:54:02 amIf you look at the noise in the specification, then the 100V range has a higher noise level. Is the band reduced to reduce noise?QuoteYes, all crossings across the Nyquist border have a drop. This is clearly visible if you change the frequency linearly and not in steps.And all that is higher than the Nyquist frequency is spectrum overlay. The ADC has a very good sample/hold device with sampling times of the order of 100 ns.QuoteUnfortunately it is so. As Bred said, the user must make an external good filter himself if he wants to watch the signal in a limited band. If this is not done, then all the noise from the Nyquist frequency to the MHz pair will fall into the signal((

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 01:07:50 pm
content: Updated the header:Added by:- improvements to the new firmware;- added new bugs and features;

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 01:18:28 pm
content: The new screen of death.The device after it did not react to anything. I had to reboot. Unfortunately, I can’t say how to repeat it. I switched between DCV and Digi V modes, used a large buffer and played with the Count parameter.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 10:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: E-Design on November 23, 2019, 02:29:33 amThe 100V range behaves very strangely.For example, I see a reaction from a change in input resistance.At 10 MΩ - 750 μVAt Auto - 65 uVAt the same time (Auto) it can be seen that emissions appear on the noise trackIs there any difference between 10 MΩ and Auto?If you select a range of 1000V there is no such effect.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 08:35:47 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on November 25, 2019, 10:24:30 pmCan you reveal the details? What is the difference? What is the input impedance in Auto mode? Does the device have the ability to work with an input impedance of 1 GΩ for the ranges 100V and 1000V

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2019, 10:14:08 am
content: New firmware 1.7.0. Trying to write a large contiguous buffer (8 000 000 samples) at a time:Settings:Digi V + [Freq=1MHz] + [Aperture=1mks] + [count = 8,000,000]When time-critical processes are not implemented on the hardware, but are given to programmers, it’s a disasterWhen the product is more than 5 years old. But he still cannot do a simple operation - write a buffer of a given size with a given frequency. But on the screen you can run the watch and other toys.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 09:39:55 am
content: New KickStart released.https://uk.tek.com/software/kickstart/2-2-1

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 11:51:59 am
content: Updated the header:Added by:- firmware 1.7.0 аdditional Information;- link`s;

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 03:21:21 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on September 27, 2019, 12:05:38 amI figured out different cutoff frequencies for 100V and 1000V17.5 kHz available for:1000 V + 10 MΩ1000 V + Auto100 V + 10 MΩ7.5 kHz becomes at a combination of parameters 100 V + AutoWhy, when choosing the input resistance Auto for the range of 100 V, the strip changes I do not know. This is some kind of mystery.I tried to measure the input impedance for Auto and for 10 MΩ = 10 MΩ without changes.Something inside limits the band.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2020, 01:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: E-Design on April 08, 2020, 08:35:05 pmWhere can I read more about this? I want to understand what exactly is happening. And why it works on the 100 V range but doesn't work on the 1000 V rangeQuoteUnfortunately my guarantee has already endedQuoteI posted this on the tek forum. But in my opinion he is long dead. I would love to talk with someone else, but unfortunately I can’t find the contacts of specialists who understand how the device works. I only come across Keithley's security experts. : ((Can you tell me where to find them?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 11:58:19 am
content: Let's try to figure out how the frequency and the aperture parameter for the Digitize mode are set.1. Sample Rate:It seems we can set any frequency from 1 kHz to 1 MHz. But this is not so. This is easy to see if you try to set the frequency of 999999 Hz. The device will rearrange the frequency 979592. That is, frequency step of the order of 20 kHz. And the next one will be 960,000 Hz.To understand why we will look into the device and find a 48 MHz generator next to the ADC. (why at 50 MHz is a mystery to me.) Accordingly, the period must be a multiple of the period of the generator.For 1 MHz - 48 periods.The next frequency can have 49 periods. This is 979 591.83673 ... Hz or rounded 979592 Hz (which the device shows.)In order to find out how many periods the formula will be set: T = Rounded up (Fgen / Fx).Real sampling rate = Fgen / T;2. ApertureThis parameter did not give in to cracking long enough. In manual mode, when we set the aperture manually by setting the number of microseconds, everything turns out fine. t = 1 μs and the apertura parameter sets the number of averaged samples N. (The device allows you to set up a fractional aperture; maybe it works; maybe not. I haven’t figured it out yet).But there is one caveat. For example, for a frequency of 333334 Hz, as shown above, the period will be exactly 3 μs and it would seem that we can choose a manual aperture 3. But the device says that the maximum aperture is 1/333334 = 2.9999 ... which is <3 μs and does not allow us to set value of 3 mks. only 1 and 2.Now let's move on to the Auto parameter.It works like that. Calculated N = rounding down (T / 48) we get the number of averaged samples.And then we calculate t = rounding down (T / N)As a result, for a frequency of 333334 we get T = 144; N = 3; and t = 48And for a frequency of 384000 we get T = 125; N = 2; and t = 62 i.e. readings will be taken after 62 then after 63 periods and so on.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 12:11:49 pm
content: A table with all values of frequencies and parameters T, N, t for Auto mode.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 12:05:23 pm
content: New KickStart released.https://uk.tek.com/software/kickstart/2-3-0

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 04:27:41 pm
content: Can someone describe roughly (overall) how the issues discussed in this thread relate to the 6500? For example, when 7510 issues surface are they likely to be similarly present in the 6500 and then fixed in the 6500 after being fixed in the 7510? Or does it work in the reverse sequence? Or some of both sequences? Or are the issues lists for the two models dissimilar enough that the features requests and bug lists have relatively little relationship to one another in terms of being found and addressed? Or something else...?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 09:03:55 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on April 21, 2020, 04:27:41 pmI think the only way is to learn to repeat the described steps and check if there is a problem in 6500.I tried to post problems in the topic about 6500 but I was asked to start the topic separately because the DMM7510 "is very different from 6500."I will be grateful if someone checks the problems found at 6500.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 12:36:39 pm
content: Schedule deviation of time from the expected. Ideally, each sample should be in the time position t = i * T0. The graph shows the difference between the time given by the device and the ideal delta t = t- i * Т0Graph for frequency 1 MHz

author: Sparky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 03:15:26 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on April 28, 2020, 12:36:39 pmThanksMegaVolt. I really appreciate the testing you are doing on DMM7510 and bringing to light all the peculiarities of the meter, especially related to digitizer mode and aspects of logging/recording data. I really hope Keithley is paying attention to your findings and follow this thread.This result is really bizarre. I wonder if the deviation in sample times is real, or a floating point rounding/truncation error, or something else. It would be good to have clarification of this issue.E-Designdo you have any thoughts on this?

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 09:33:22 am
content: A big Thank to MegaVolt also from my side. Well done, I have a 7510 and it is my top DMM on my bench. Unfortunately I do not use it too much.I hope to share my adventures here in the future.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:41:43 am
content: Quote from: Sparky on April 29, 2020, 03:15:26 amThank you for your feedback. I am very pleased to know that someone else needs this. I do not understand Keithley's policy. I could not find contact with people who understand how the device works. Everywhere there are lawyers who say that the device is good and within the specification. Forum forum.tek.com is also silent. Therefore, we can help ourselves.QuoteBred O. mentioned an error when switching from one clock domain to another. And what I see in the two down pictures is very similar to this. But what was happening in the upper pictures was a complete surprise for me yesterday. Perhaps this is some kind of software frequency adjustment. For example, under frequent networks or something else ....I have not yet come up with a good experiment on how to understand if there is a problem with digitization or not.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 10:45:35 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on April 29, 2020, 09:33:22 amJoin !!! Maybe when there will be a lot of us Keythley will pay attention to us)

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 11:43:45 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on April 29, 2020, 11:24:59 amAsk them to look. Thank!!!QuoteGood! I will add them. I just don’t understand what is the problem and what is not. From the point of view of Keithley.

author: Sparky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 07:25:01 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on April 29, 2020, 11:43:45 amMegaVolt: can you post a link to your thread on the Tek forum? I want to track it and post there also.It appears Keithley are ignoring these issues.Why can't they have one firmware guy reading these forums?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2020, 08:13:08 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky on April 29, 2020, 07:25:01 pmhttps://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=142217https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=142031QuoteBred O. was such a man. But for some reason he stopped writing on the forum.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 09:34:01 pm
content: DigiV 100V behaves very strange. Maybe of course these are problems of my device. If someone can check please what your devices show?At 1000V all this is present but not so bright. And at least fit into the tolerances)

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 11:29:30 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on May 03, 2020, 10:36:42 pmI am happy to be able to participate in the free beta test program for future true Keithley customers.I understand the reason for the glitch in the digital track lying next to the divider? Or is it more complicated? Can we get more information to fix the problem ourselves?I understand that the glitches that I saw in the 100V range in the normal measurement modes are of the same nature?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 09:23:25 pm
content: Different numbers of decimal places depending on the selected screen or the value of a number.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 09:38:56 pm
content: It is probably the values to show. They seem to use the same number of total digits. So one more digit resolution once below 10 V. For the average the higher resolution may actually make some limited sense.The peak to peak and StdDev values still have some digits well in the noise / fantasy. It is not a big deal, but ideally there should not be much more digits than actually real. If at the edge one more digit can be good - so the average could get one more digit, while the peak to peak and StdDev case should get less.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 11:15:07 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on February 04, 2019, 06:47:22 pmBoth the DMM7510 and DMM6500 should be able to use a PT1000 RTD. Change 3/4-Wire RTD to "User" and set RTD Zero to 1000.

author: essele
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 12:15:10 pm
content: I've just posted a couple of bugs around the temp measurement stuff in the Tek forum, so I though I'd add them here for completeness.(a) Using a thermistor, with 1.7.0e the display reads in kilo degrees ... not very helpful! It was fine in the older firmware.(b) Using a PT1000 (not sure that's relevant), with 1.7.0e the display reads "-DispNan-" ... graphing is fine, so the value is actually read ok. Haven't tried this in the older firmware.I'm assuming these are generic temperature display problems with 1.7.0e firmware. Quite how you can release a major firmware release without testing this stuff is beyond me!I've also found quite a few display issues, but in the scheme of things they seem less important. I must say my first impressions (after only 2 days) is that the hardware seems great, the capabilities (esp the triggering stuff) are superb, but the firmware quality is awful!

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 03:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on May 17, 2020, 11:15:07 amThank you! I missed that moment.Quote from: essele on May 17, 2020, 12:15:10 pmThank you!QuoteYes it is not convenientQuoteThis is strange. I connected a 1 kΩ resistor and got the measurements.QuoteUnfortunately, a number of modes work either with an error or with noise that can hardly be called Gaussian. It seems that tested only some ranges that are really great.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 03:46:38 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on May 16, 2020, 09:38:56 pmYes, I understand. I was uncomfortable getting an extra digit by switching the display. I'd love to have all the numbers on any display.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 04:20:02 pm
content: Ohhhhhhhh !!! I found curious documents. True, they are in Russian.1. This is a test procedure for the device.2. Description of the type of measuring instrument.These documents describe the conditions under which the device is accepted in the state registry of Russia. And the presence of these documents means acceptance by the state as a metrological device. Those. these are the parameters that an independent metrology laboratory checks and guarantees.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 08:25:39 pm
content: Nameplate describing noise quality with shorted inputs in DigiV mode:

author: essele
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 04:15:54 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on May 17, 2020, 03:43:30 pmThat's bizarre ... I've just attached a 1k resistor, using 4W resistance mode it's fine .. I switched to temperature and 4RTD and it said '-DispNAN-', then I went through some of the other transducer devices and it's started working ... very weird.Just tried a reset and still it appears to be working, although it said "PT100" but was reading a correct value ... so I don't think "reset" actually reset the zero value. That seems like another bug. (This is reproducible -- it's nice to know reset isn't actually a reset!)Power cycled, and it then seems to be working fine ... PT100 shows "overflow", and then setting the zero value to 1000 works ok.So I think there's some sequence of events that I went through (I had been using a thermistor before) that got it into this confused state. I've tried going back over some similar steps but can't reproduce it.Further -- the "zero" setting actually persists if you go from 4RTD to Thermistor and then back to 4RTD even though it says "PT100", so they are not properly resetting values. If you manually select "PT100" then it's ok.Horrible.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2020, 12:01:33 pm
content: Unfortunately, this is a frequent occurrence for this device. Any deviation from the correct path can lead to glitches which can be eliminated only by rebooting

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 10:02:08 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on April 13, 2020, 11:58:19 amI checked the ability to install a fractional aperture. Unfortunately this does not make sense. In manual mode, the aperture can be a multiple of 1 μs and nothing else.Fractional aperture only becomes in AUTO mode as I described earlier.If you want to get a signal suitable for FFT processing, I recommend setting it to either 1µs mode or AUTO mode. In this case, the AUTO mode averages several samples, which improves the signal-to-noise ratio.Of course, remember that the device has a wide band and if you have not limited the frequency of the signal, then you will get frequency aliasing.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 10:12:16 am
content: New Test Script Builder released.https://www.tek.com/software/testscriptbuilder/kts-850j05

author: essele
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 08:21:39 am
content: I've just updated another item I've logged on the Tek support forum...https://forum.tek.com/viewtopic.php?f=363&t=142266Its basically saying that, as the graphs start to cover longer time periods, they seem to round the data values and have quite a signficant loss of precision (although there are strange anomalies where this doesn't appear to happen.)I seem to be talking into a void on the other forum (although did get a response on one of the temperature issues) but thought I'd include it here for completeness.More detail is in the other forum, but basically I've taken the same (almost) data and bucketed it into 300 buckets (storing min and max) and then plotted using excel, so this is assuming they have 300 pixels to display the data on the screen, and this is roughly what it should look like...But on the 7510 it actually looks like this..... clearly awful.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 09:22:27 am
content: The reduced resolution is really odd. There may be reason to use reduced resolution for intermediate data to save on the memory - though still odd, as 1 µV resolution would be more than 24 bits and 32 bits would give enough resolution.So it looks like another small points of sloppy implemented graphics software.There is another not so nice feature that was noted before: the grid lines are 1.1 µV apart, which is an odd choice. At least it looks like exactly 1.1 with no extra rounding error at the labels.

author: essele
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 10:35:50 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 11, 2020, 09:22:27 amYes, I had assumed this originally, but the internal data is absoutlely fine (that's what I used to do the excel graph) and you can zoom in and see the full resolution, so it's purely some unnecessary (in my view) rounding ... may be for performance, but I can't really see it.There are so many horrible (but easy to fix) things with this meter .. just looking at the above screenshot ... why would you show min, max, and avg to 10uV resolution? .. it just makes them useless, I think I'd rather they weren't there at all!Quote from: Kleinstein on June 11, 2020, 09:22:27 amDon't get me started on the auto-scaling! I keep meaning to capture screenshots of all the bizarre ways this manifests itself. I can understand the 1.1uV from a pure "best efforts" scaling perspective, but we should have the ability to set a min and max ... being only able to set to factors of 10 per division is awful (and again I don't understand this, their autoscaling can set it to whatever it wants) but we can only do 1uV, 10uV, 100uV etc. Ugh!The graphing has the potential to be so much better than others (like the 34470 for example), but the implementation just lets it down all over the place. Still, I guess you can always export the data.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 03:56:30 pm
content: print(display.lightstate) always returns display.STATE_LCD_OFF after power-upAt the same time, the device screen is turned on.This variable starts to work normally only after writing any value to it.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 12:56:40 pm
content: The device allows you to set NPLC with an accuracy of 1 ns, for example 10.001 μs. Does that make any sense?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 01:52:00 pm
content: It could make sense to set the integration time to a specific value with rather high resolution: if there is some extra low frequency signal floating around not related to mains, one could set the time to get good suppression of this frequency. No real need for 1ns resolution, but it does not really hurt. It is more like odd how they implement this. I could understand 1 µs or 100 ns as the clock used.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2020, 02:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 16, 2020, 01:52:00 pmI also wonder what the real step is. We’ll have to put on experiments and try to understand how the device works

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 03:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 16, 2020, 01:52:00 pmEverything turned out to be much simpler. A lot of decimal places is just math. In reality, the integration time directly depends on the 48 MHz oscillator according to the formula N = 300 + k * 400 clock cycles of the oscillator.This is true for a network frequency of 50 Hz. Does this formula change for the network from 60 Hz I can not checkThe consequences:1 NPLC is not exactly equal to 0.02c it can be or 0.0199979167 sor 0.0200062500 sAnd I also understood why the generator is 48 MHz and not 50. 50 MHz is badly divided by 60

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 03:39:26 pm
content: I hurried. The formula 300 + k * 400 applies only to the numbers on the screen. Real accumulation time has a different formula with the same step. Those. what is shown on the screen does not match what is set physicallyI will continue the investigation. Students who programmed this device should be fired

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 04:15:16 pm
content: Here is a table of what happens in the device. It's hard for me to explain the logic of what is happening. The selected integration time is not even in the middle of the range.But eat and plus. If you set the integration time as a multiple of 8.33 (3) ms, then the displayed and real time will coincide.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 05:22:42 pm
content: The 8.3 µs make some sense as the period of the run-up phase feedback. One is not limited to these steps, but it makes things easier. So setting the integration time in ns steps is a bit dishonest. Only 8.3 µs steps could be slightly limiting in some cases, but is not that bad.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:00:03 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 26, 2020, 05:22:42 pmMost of all, I don’t like the fact that I have to get these data and numbers myself. I cannot read them in user manual.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:50:25 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on June 27, 2020, 11:00:03 amI absolutely agree with that.With modern instruments the manuals get increasingly confusing and the specs get unclear, missing details or the relevant part to compare different products. For the DMM7510 I can absolute understand that they don't want to show the 100 PLC noise. So the specs tend to leave out the weak points.In part this is because of the flood of new features and options and planed additions to the software. So they have to release a manual before the software is really ready (if it ever gets). Fixing the bugs is usually slow and updating the manuals is usually even slower. When writing instructions one tends to focus on the new / special features, so one may miss one the classical important part.The manual is already quite long and is still missing quite a bit on app programming.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 12:29:15 pm
content: Yes that's rightAt the expense of noise in my opinion the data is outdated. I'm busy measuring noise right now. Soon I will share the results.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:15:59 pm
content: I found that DCV noise in the 0.1V range changes little until the integration time is 0.007sIt became interesting to me how this noise looks and it looks like a certain periodic signalAperture = 0,000475 s

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 10:30:52 am
content: During the night I collected more data and there is a similar generation for long integration times. For example, here is a picture for NPLC = 8.5. And similar pictures for all times of integration of a kind 5.5; 6.5; 7.5;It looks like a network frequency.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 11:19:53 am
content: Using things like 7.5 PLC makes the meter sensitive to mains hum (50 Hz, but not 100 Hz). Due to the time needed for rundown, there is a beat frequency and this would be visible. So the amplitude seen here is likely from the 50 Hz hum. This is why the preferred modes are integer PLC numbers.For the much faster test in the digitizing mode one may see residues of ripple from an chopper OP too.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 11:44:53 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 29, 2020, 11:19:53 amYes, I understand this feature of integrating ADCs. Everyone has it and it seems even 3458a judging by the picture in the application.QuoteYou express your thoughts very briefly. And I often cannot understand because the translator often loses some of the meaning. Could you write a little more about the idea of this test. If we talk about the noise that I see with DigiV, then it does not look like 50Hz. I see 14KHz noises I wrote about them above.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 10:07:41 pm
content: Here are the noise graphs. For the rms value and for the constant component (Vm0).For the DC component and the 0.1 V range, there are curious points of 0.1; 0.35; 0.6 NPLC they give a big shift but in fact there is a periodic process that is longer than 1000 samples. Therefore, we see the error of expectation because we consider it for part of the period.I attached a picture taken for 100 thousand counts.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 10:12:15 pm
content: Looking at the similarity of the 1 V and 100 V graphs, there is a suspicion that they divide 100V by 1000 and then process it as a 1V signal.For channels 1V and 0.1V, 5 NPLC is really the best, followed by 1 and 2 NPLC. I believe in these ranges software averaging of samples with 1 NPLC will give good results.I'll check it a little later.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 08:05:13 am
content: Using a divide by 100 and than use the 1 V range is the normal path for the 100 V range in many meters, so no surprise here.The extra periodic background looks strange with steps in frequency. The frequency is likely some beat frequency with mains hum. With some extra time for signal processing / run-down 10 readings at 0.1 PLC would likely take a little longer than 20 ms and thus some phase shift with every reading. The mains frequency will also have an effect, but I doubt the more discrete frequency ranges would be due to the mains frequency.The periodic signal would also cause the plateau at low PLCs for the 0.1 V range, as different PLC settings would mainly effect the frequency and less the amplitude.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 10:10:45 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on July 02, 2020, 08:05:13 amI understand the essence of this decision. One divider instead of two. This saves 1 precision resistor. And this is expected in a budget multimeter. But in 7.5-digit, I thought there would be no such savings. Especially considering that the amplifier standing on the 1V input spoils the noise characteristics.QuoteForgot to add. If you disable AZ, then the cunning envelope disappears. And there remains just a certain frequency with a constant amplitude. The signal does not become smaller in amplitude but looks prettier.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 01:02:46 pm
content: Normally the amplifier only add a little noise to the 1 V range. Much of the noise is often still from the ADC (and the references of cause). So the way with only one divider does not add that much noise. The standard high voltage divider are this way, so even 8 digit meters like 3458, Datron 1281 and Keithley 2002 use only 1 divider, though here it may actually help to have 2 divider settings. Switching off the 1:10 divider may however need a relay for switching (or switch at the low side and this a variable impedance), and this can add more trouble than using just 1 divider.Quote from: MegaVolt on July 02, 2020, 10:10:45 amThat is interesting: so the low frequency part is more like an aliasing of the higher frequency part.The very fast readings well below 1 PLC are often used without auto zero, as this about speed and not so much about accuracy.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 02:20:09 pm
content: New firmware released.https://www.tek.com/digital-multimeter/dmm7510-software/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-172-and-release-notes

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2020, 04:46:44 pm
content: First impressions:Fixed working with memory. For the first time I was able to allocate a buffer for 8.3 million samples.But unfortunately, as before, it cannot be filled with data during digitization. Somewhere after 4 million there is a pause in filling the bufferKilo degrees left.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 09:08:56 am
content: I updated the new version and after ACAL I found an additional zero offset of 200 ... 300 nV.It was in the region of 300-400 became 500-800 ....Does anyone have a similar effect?The only thing that I made a mistake and confused ACAL after flashing without turning off the device. That is, he rebooted himself, but I did not remove the power completely. Then I found that the device was not behaving quite correctly (for example, I could not switch the input impedance) and turned off the power. After turning on and re ACAL, I see the same shiftPerhaps I ruined something. Or in the new firmware there were some changes about which were not said in the description

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 11:21:55 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on July 15, 2020, 09:08:56 amHi Megavolt, do you have a low thermal short for when doing zero calibration? Thermal effects from metal of the short and environment can cause voltage gradients of 100+ nV How much thermal settling time? No airflow blowing on the instrument? These are some of the considerations for you. Even a brief power cycle is enough to upset the offset 100nV due to the internal temperature change and re-settling.Also there will not be any undocumented firmware changes that you didnt see in the description in case you worry about it. If firmware makes a change to calibration or how the measurements are built, it will be described there.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 11:37:22 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on July 15, 2020, 11:21:55 amI have a special shorting from Keithley. I bought it specifically so that I had something to answer this question))The device stood and carried out automatic measurements for several days. With installed short Keithley. Then I interrupted the measurement. Updated firmware and continued measurements. After that, a clear step appeared on the chart before and after the update. (I will add a graph in the evening)

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 04:58:26 pm
content: Left - 5 day testRight - 3 day test after update.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 07:28:46 pm
content: Updating the firmware may imply running an ACAL. This alone could change the offset a little.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2020, 07:35:13 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on July 15, 2020, 07:28:46 pmFor two years I played with the device and started ACAL. Mixing was kept at 300-400nV very stable.I assume that it is possible that ACAL can start after updating the firmware without turning off the power, but it doesn’t work as intended. It is not very clear why repeated ACAL does not return anything

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 12:39:45 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on July 15, 2020, 07:35:13 pmUpdating the firmware requires a reboot which isnt as thermally upsetting as a power cycle but it still might make a small shift. I would expect though, the zero to eventually return to its previous value after some time.An ACAL however, will rebuild the zero measurement and now becomes dependent on how good of short and thermally stable you can make at the terminals.. It will in general, end up being slightly different.For your thermal short, check the orientation of it. It is not thermally symmetric. Rotate it and let unit sit for > 1 hour, you will see a shift. It is designed for stable HI-LO but as you can see there is also a SHI-SLO and the two connect. Anyways, the orientation is another variable. Also, you didnt say, are there air currents or other instrument nearby creating less stable environment. I couldnt see your picture because its only the graph not the instrument.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 06:27:21 am
content: I carefully checked the captured data and found this jump before flashing. I apologize for the uproar.I was wrong.Unfortunately, I cannot find an explanation for this phenomenon other than a decrease in temperature by a couple of degrees.But this phenomenon is definitely not related to firmware.The graph shows data with NPLC = 5 and averaging filter = 12

author: eplpwr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2020, 03:52:31 pm
content: Two days ago I filed a support case with Tek regarding the temperature in Celsius being shown as kilo-degrees.Today I received a FW version 1.7.3c and can report that my specific problem is fixed. From what Tek/Keithley wrote, is seems like this version is very close to being published on their site.Unfortunately, I didn't get any release notes (PDF file), just an .upd file that flashed without problems, so I don't know what other fixes are in there.Best regards,eplpwr

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2020, 09:37:53 pm
content: Quote from: eplpwr on July 24, 2020, 03:52:31 pmTell me through which communication channel did you get such a quick response?QuoteCan you share this firmware? Or is she under NDA

author: eplpwr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2020, 08:56:21 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on July 24, 2020, 09:37:53 pmI used the support form on tek.com.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2020, 09:51:41 pm
content: The firmware actually appeared on the sitehttps://uk.tek.com/digital-multimeter/dmm7510-software/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-173-and-release-notesBut I can't download it because: "In compliance with U.S. Government regulation, Tektronix is required to review all software download activity. This process may take up to one U.S. business day and you will be notified when the process is complete. We apologize for any inconvenience."I'll wait for the day)))

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 01:51:11 pm
content: I cannot download either the new or the old update. Did anyone manage to download the new update? Can he put it somewhere?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 08:17:18 pm
content: Their website works awfully, they messed up my registration, lots of lags ?? in my case. To force people to register pfffffffheres your file v 1.73https://gofile.io/d/KhSSuparound 7.2 megsRelease note pdf added

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 08:22:36 pm
content: Version 1.7.3 provides fixes and enhancements.CRITICAL FIXESReference number: NS-1908Symptom: Changing an annunciator setting (such as auto zero or filter enable) on theSettings or Calculations screen is not reflected in the Home screenannunciators.Resolution: This issue has been corrected.Reference number: NS-1909Symptom: Temperature readings are shown as k (for kilo) degrees Celsius,Fahrenheit, or Kelvin instead of degrees Celsius, Fahrenheit or Kelvin.Resolution: This issue has been corrected.Reference number: NS-1927Symptom: The LXI identification web page shows the incorrect LXI version and webpage links.Resolution: This issue has been corrected.ENHANCEMENTSCategory Remote commandsReference number: NS-1931: Added a TLS (transport layer security) option when using thetspnet.connect() command.connectionID = tspnet.connect(ipAddress, portNumber,initString, useTLS)ipAddress: A string that indicates the IP address or host name toconnect to.portNumber: Default 5025.initString: Sends a string to ipAddress.useTLS: 0 or 1;0: Do not use TLS with the connection (default)1: Use TLS with the connection.When useTLS is set to 1, the instrument negotiates the security protocolwhen connecting to the host or IP address that is used. This securityprotocol is used when using tspnet.write() to send data ortspnet.read() to receive data.Version 1.7.3 Release DMM7510 7½ Digit Graphical Multimeter Version 1.7.3 Firmware Release NotesDMM7510-FRP-V1.7.3 June 2020 Page 5 of 49The following is an example of how to use a host name with the TLSoption:connectionID = tspnet.connect(“hostname.domain.com”,443, “”, 1)Category Remote commandsReference number: NS-1960: The localnode.gettimewithfractional() TSPcommand is available to retrieve the number of seconds elapsed sinceJanuary 1,

author: dmitry.bond
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 01:21:01 am
content: Found that DMM7510 may have different probe port types. Either nice shrouded or unshrouded with thicker conductors (my guess).Is it an option or Tek changed the design? What is the latest?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 11:14:03 am
content: Photo of my device. It's 2018.Where did the second photo come from?

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 12:17:09 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on November 03, 2020, 11:14:03 amMegavolt, the newer style is a cost reduction change but the contacts have the same performance. It is a product change that happened a few years ago to remove some unnecessary cost.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 08:42:29 am
content: New KickStart 2.4.0 released.https://uk.tek.com/software/kickstart/2-4-0

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 08:44:30 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on November 03, 2020, 12:17:09 pmE-Design in the topic for 6500 you gave typical data for linearity 6500. Is it possible to see this data for 7510 as well?

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 08:19:52 am
content: New Firmware Revision 1.7.5 released.https://www.tek.com/sitewide-content/software/m/o/d/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-175-and-release-notes

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 07:22:58 pm
content: Per Request,Typical linearity performance of DMM7510. NOTE: data for one sided only. Other side is mostly symmetrical.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 10:09:28 pm
content: Speaking of linearity, what's the cal-lab technique for achieving it? I've heard that the 3458A has a special unique autocal self-linearization process that makes it 50x more linear than, say, the DMM7510, but what's the process? A really good Kelvin Varley divider or something?

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 02:01:37 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on January 05, 2021, 07:22:58 pmExcellent dataset, thank you. But it brings some more questions, as shape is bit strange if its indeed symmetrical.I suspect that might be a linear fitting artifact, or there is really -0.2ppm pole at near 0V?Also if there are datasets on other DCV ranges, that's be interesting. Some other meters are not as good for non-base 10(20V) range and INL for those rarely tested by people.I also join to a question if you can share bit more about methodology?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 10:44:43 am
content: The INL curve looks like relative to a linear fit for only the positive readings. Separate curves make absolute sense if something like Fluke 5700 calibrator is used to set the test points, as the fluke switches sign by relays and may show a small jump at zero.From the data it looks like there is an additional meter used.With a linear fit to only the shown data, the curve makes absolute sense. It looks like a combination of U² and U³ parts and some small more local wiggles from something like idle tones. A fit to the whole range including the negative side would better decide between U² and U³ parts. The absolute error would get larger, as the curve needs to join at zero. So the error bound do not directly apply.U³ and U² parts can arise from resistor self heating and the FET switch resistance, so they are the normal errors to expect.Especially the U³ part from resistor self heating may vary between units, as it is about proportional to the relative TC.The curve still looks good.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 12:19:31 pm
content: A little about the good))The device has a very low noise level. With inputs shorted in the 0.1V range and NPLC = 1, 42nV RMS can be obtained.But if you add together several buffers with measurements and average them, you can reduce the noise level by the root of N times !!!For example, here is the result of averaging 100 buffers.RMS noise = 4nV !!!!!P.S. such processing of measurements helps to reveal some measurement artifacts. I'll talk about this a little later.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 12:51:49 pm
content: I know about the usual reduction of noise level from averaging, but this only work so easy if the readings are independent, and this can be a problem with the 7510 for 2 reasons.One is the ADC part, likely from the auto zero mode, there seem to be some correlation between the readings, e.g. from averaging the zero readings. This is one of the problems discussed in this thread for th noise in the 10 V range. There averaging does not follow simple theory. For the 100 mV range the ADC may not be that relevant, at least not the noise level for 1 PLC.The second point is the configuration of the input stage. From the photos and analogy with other keithley meters the input section is expected to use low noise JFETs and an AZ OP to compensate drift. This would be very low noise at high frequency, but only moderately good at longer integration or averaging multiple readings in a row. To reach such a low noise level it would need more like classical auto zero, like in most HP meters with switching before the amplifier. So the AZ OP may be just there for the non AZ mode.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2021, 02:47:14 pm
content: Averaging multiple buffers also allows you to separate random processes from deterministic processes. For example, small thermal processes can be detected at the beginning of the measurement.If there is a pause before filling the buffer (for example, 1 minute), then at the beginning of measurements there is some thermal artifact with a duration of 30 seconds on the 10V and 1000V ranges. It is small and within tolerance.But if you had a stop of the measurement process (waiting for the trigger), then for the best measurements it makes sense to discard the first 30 seconds of measurements.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 07:56:39 am
content: Secondary measurement cannot be controlled remotely.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2021, 11:59:58 am
content: Since no one has mentioned this already, it appears Keithley released DMM7510-FRP-V1.7.7 on April 28, 2021. Loaded on mine, no issues to report.Here is a handy link I saved as a bookmark to search, filter and sort DMM7510 firmware for updates;https://www.tek.com/search?keywords=DMM7510&facets=_templatename%3dSoftware%26parsedsoftwaretype%3dFirmware&sort=desc

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2021, 02:03:45 pm
content: I have also installed v1.7.7 a few days ago and it works perfectly so far.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 01:09:08 pm
content: Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.10 is out.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 02:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on October 21, 2021, 01:09:08 pmHow funny, in order to upgrade, we have to downgrade:Snip from the release notes:Quote

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 03:24:58 pm
content: We also updated the datasheet.They have removed the accuracy values for the 10 megohm mode.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 04:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 21, 2021, 02:04:50 pmYeah, its a pretty poor choice of words for upgrading.. the reason downgrade option is recommended is that it will force the upgrade (rewrite firmware) activity regardless of the existing version. It should be thought of as 'Force upgrade" pretty amusing nonetheless..

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2021, 08:27:53 pm
content: Tried the new firmware. I did not put the previous one, so the changes on both.Of the good.The captions on the charts became very nice. This is very nice! See picture.From the not so good.1. I managed to hang the device 3 minutes after firmware update playing with it via the browser)))))2. Histogram captions are replaced by XXX when they don't fit. It is an old problem, but I have not written about it yet. See the picture.3. nothing else is fixed

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2022, 12:33:45 pm
content: Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.12https://www.tek.com/en/support/software/firmware/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-1712-and-release-notes

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 08:05:34 am
content: I have installed Firmware Revision 1.7.12 and both of my DMM7510 run perfect so far.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 06:56:15 am
content: User manual in russian.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 01:54:19 pm
content: A new specification has been released with a bunch of surprises.1. Current accuracy has become worse.2. As a consequence, this affected resistance.3. Noise levels are increased4. Other minor changes.I have collected all the significant differences in pictures.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 01:55:10 pm
content: Continuation

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 05:18:10 pm
content: Accuracy specs and especially the long term drift part is difficult to estimate up front. So not such a surprise to see an update on those specs. Also the performance of the shunts may scatter more than expected. A part may also be due to a change in parts used (e.g. old source no longer available) and may thus only apply to new units.For the noise specs it is a bit surprising to see corrected higher noise specs. It could be that the noise performance is scattering more than expected. Otherwise the noise should be relatively consistant and easy to test. So the noise performance could be tested individually, at least for some ranges. Maybe they got too many units that did not pass the test or get returned as defective because of too much noise.I would have more expected a correction downwards, e.g. from improved parts or a slight circuit change to reduce the noise. I don't know the details of the ADC (only info from pictures and analogy to other meters), but there is a good chances there is weak point that could be improved on.With so many changes this may even be just a more cauteous new staff, adding more margin or using less optimistic estimates.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 05:24:12 pm
content: Maybe some parts have changed in new production runs and older models still hold the older specs?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 07:22:23 pm
content: For the current ranges there could be a change of parts. The shunts are a bit special and expensive parts, where it could happen that if the original one go EOL that they didnot get a good replacement.For the noise part there should not be a problem in getting equivalent parts with the same low noise. The OPA140 is still available and even a OPA141 or OPA1641 would not give much different noise performance. For the resistors there should also be low noise ones available. I doublt that they would change the reference - though possible.With the noise specs part there may be the point of including reference noise, so not just give the noise with a shorted input, but the noise for a FS input. Most noise specs are for a shorted input, but to be real honest they should also give the reference noise in some way (ideally as seprate noise at FS input for a hypothetical noise free input). Especially with the relatively good LTFLU ref. there is no good reason not to show it.If the old meter still hold the old specs is a good question.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2023, 10:10:14 pm
content: We work hard to make sure no specs are affected adversely if at all possible. If specs must change, we strive to at least minimize the impact. However, we also value making sure they reflect the performance of the instrument accurately.Some of the causes of spec adjustments:1) Part changes - inevitable outcome of procurement issues and obsolescence of key components - its a never ending battle.2) Improved testing and predictive methods.3) Statistics / much more run time of units in the field.If you feel some specification is now detrimental to your measurement needs, please describe in detail and I am happy to take the feedback so we can consider it next time.We can always improve specs, but we need justification for that -- and having customer feedback is a nice way to do that.There is no reason to believe older instruments in the field do not hold their specs.Many thanks!

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 02:25:05 pm
content: Thank you for staying with usQuote from: E-Design on November 21, 2023, 10:10:14 pmI don't really understand this phrase.To evaluate the capabilities of an old device, should I use the old specification? And for new devices, a new specification?From what date is the device considered new?P.S. After the new changes, my account was banned and I lost the ability to download new software

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:54:22 pm
content: There is no reason to think older instruments do not meet those original specifications. Newer specifications will reflect closer to the newer builds andremain compatiblewith older instruments. (older specs tighter).No specs were improved for newer instruments (some are worse as was pointed out). So you should be able to refer to either specification without worry. In general, we instruct everybody to use the latest released specifications. No need to worry about what date is newer vs older etc.. Hope it make sense.@ Megavolt, I dont think you were "banned" - perhaps your account was disabled due to inactivity? You can surely sign up again if you are looking for newer software.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 04:46:32 pm
content: Quote from: E-Design on November 23, 2023, 03:54:22 pmI tried...I can login but can't download.It gives the linkhttps://www.tek.com/en/software-download-request-error-2Previously, this meant that I did not fill out all the fields in my profile. Now I do not know

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 04:04:12 pm
content: I just read through the calibration manual.https://download.tek.com/manual/DMM7510-905-01B_Feb_2016_Cal.pdfApparently the DMM7510 use artifact calibration, 4 wire short, 10V and 10K ohm for all DC functions (Voltage, resistance and current).

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 04:45:50 pm
content: Quote from: aronake on July 16, 2024, 04:04:12 pmWhere did you find this information?To calibrate this device you need a huge list of equipment listed on page 2-3. And it is clearly more than 10V and 10 kOm.There are newer instructions.

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 06:44:20 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on July 16, 2024, 04:45:50 pmI was referring to this part of the calibration manual.It seems it got removed in the updated calibration manual not to mislead people that these are the only things needed for all calibration.But artefact as in no need for different DC voltages and different resistors for the DC functions. The DC 10 amp range need 2A signal though. And this obviously only covers adjustment, not verification.Then some AC signals for similar adjustments as where 3458a use exotic thermal converters.I was just checking which of the needed AC signals I have equipment to generate with sufficient accuracy. The rather difficult 7 amp DCI at 1 kHz requirement is not covered in my arsenal yet....Does anybody know if its possible to only do DC front calibration (the artefact part ,cal.adjust.dc()) and then save calibration data? Or all steps required? 99.9% of my use would be covered by DC functions excl the 10A DCI range.The manual hints that all steps are needed:"Calibration is temporary until you send the cal.save() command. Also, calibration data is not saved if calibration is locked, if invalid data exists, or if all steps were not completed. "My hope is that "all steps" means all steps in one section. But I think I may be a bit optimistic here... Plan is to try and find out in the comming days.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 09:14:59 am
content: Quote from: aronake on August 28, 2024, 06:44:20 pmYes, indeed, this was mentioned in the old manual.The new manual leaves some questions open.For example, Step 2 of DC calibration mentions 100V and 1000V full range. But it does not say whether the calibration is done automatically or an external source is needed.The manual also suggests verifying the 100V and 1000V ranges, but does not say what to do if they are outside the tolerance? Is this a malfunction?Unfortunately, I do not know if it is possible to do partial calibrationI am also interested in this question.

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 10:00:59 am
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on August 29, 2024, 09:14:59 amI have now tired to do the artefact (cal.adjust.dc) part only. And can report that it worked very well. Before adjustment my reisitance measurement was pretty far of, but max 10 PPM off for 10 to 10K range. Only things needed is a 4 wire short, 10V and 10K ohm.I have not checked linearity of voltage yet, but will do later.Step 2 in DC is very easy signal to generate, just leave the terminals openAnd for 100V and 1000V ranges being outside specifications after an artefact calibration. There isn't really anything to do about that (maybe try to calibrate again, i doubt that makes a difference, get the DMM7510 repaired or buy a new.... or just live with the error)I was also wrong on 7 amp needed for AC adjustment. Apparently its possible to use 2 amp (2 amp to 10 amp) instead. I should be able to manage to arrange that. Generation would not be accurate enough on its own, so will try to use 2 3458a in parallel to measure actual current.... Not sure how that will turn out though. And not sure if i feel i need super accurate AC current measurements in the 3 to 10 Amp range.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 11:23:35 am
content: Quote from: aronake on August 29, 2024, 10:00:59 amWhat do you mean by far of?How far?In what ranges?I have two DMM7510 and I am always surprised how stable they have been over the years.I do not see any need for adjustments at all.Maybe I got lucky with my units.

author: MegaVolt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 01:34:58 pm
content: Quote from: aronake on August 29, 2024, 10:00:59 amThis is good news. Did you save the partial calibration results?

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2024, 02:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: MegaVolt on August 29, 2024, 01:34:58 pmYes! So old calibration data is gone. The DMM7510 was calibrated in a supposed to be quite OK calibration lab before it was delivered to me by the seller. I got a quite nice looking calibration certificate with measurement points. But I have always been very suspicious about the quality of the calibration. And first got my standard resistors calibrated by the national metrology lab last week, so have not know which of my 10 multimeters was more right than any other. Ill hand in my 732b this week to the national lab. Then i know more about the voltage situation once i get that back.Even with my quick and dirty calibration the dmm7510 is very well within 24 h specification on all resistance ranges. So will do a more proper calibration and then analyse the results more in detail.

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2024, 05:02:19 am
content: I was just reading though the calibration manual of DMM6500 which I also have and may want to calibrate. As is quite common for a 6.5 digit DMM each range need to be calibrated for each function. All signals must be set exactly (except for resistance). It also requires a fixed no compromise 7A 1khz AC current signal which can be difficult to generate. So a comparable nightmare to DMM7510's artefact calibrationHere for instance are the steps to calibrate open front connectors. I guess all these steps may come with some added flexibility. And would of course be automated in some script. But still.... There are equally many for short front connectors.--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_3A_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_3A_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_1A_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_1A_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_100mA_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_100mA_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_10mA_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_10mA_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_1mA_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_1mA_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_100uA_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_100uA_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_10uA_zero_front") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_10uA_zero_front")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_3A_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_3A_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_1A_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_1A_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_100mA_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_100mA_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_10mA_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_10mA_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_1mA_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_1mA_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_DCI_DIGI_100uA_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_DCI_DIGI_100uA_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_ACI_1A_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_ACI_1A_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_ACI_3A_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_ACI_3A_zero")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_4W_HiOhm_7Vref_open") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_4W_HiOhm_7Vref_open")--Use front-terminal 4-wire open circuit setup cal.adjust.step.setup("cal_CAP_zero") cal.adjust.step.execute("cal_CAP_zero")

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 08:32:30 pm
content: Model DMM7510 Firmware Revision 1.7.16https://www.tek.com/en/support/software/firmware/model-dmm7510-firmware-revision-1716-and-release-notes

author: rusoaie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 07:11:29 am
content: Hello, everyone!Due to for its speed, graphing and remote TSP scripting capabilities the Keithley DMM7510 has become my daily driver and I could not stand the fan anymore... so...Just like to share my  success in replacing the annoying fan inside the DMM7510 (see caveats below).The main contender was the Noctua NF-A6x15 FLX. It is slower  than the original MB6010X12B1 , however it catches up at airflow due to its 15mm thickness (compared to 10mm of MB6010X12B1) reaching maximum 23.4 m³/h (compared to 31.8 m³/h max of MB6010X12B1).A few mounting notes:- I used only the extension cable supplied with the fan (and none of the attenuation/LNA/ULNA cables supplied in the box)- had to use other screws so that they reach the board and not exceed it- had to ditch the metal protection grille, as the Noctua is way fatter than the original fan (proceed at your own risk!)- added rubber o-rings between the fan and the PCB for extra vibration protection (again compromising a bit on airflow)- The DMM has 2 connectors for fan: 3 and 4 pins; I used the 4 pin connector (although my fan was the non PWM-version), as the 3 pin one starts with the voltage set at ~8.5V by default and the Noctua fan is waayyy to slow at 8.5V to properly cool the instrument- if someone tries the NF-A6x15 PWM version on the 4-pin connector maybe they can report back in this thread?- multimeter detects the rotation to be a tad slower in the beginning, but catches up after max 5 minutes of startup (see screenshot)- for precission measurements, or if you keep your DMM always on, probably replacing the fan with the original MB6010X12B1 is a better choiceNeedless to say that you can still hear the A6x15, but it is orders of magnitude quieter than the original one and you can work next to it extended hours.See attached some mounting details.Happy ppm's to everyone on DMM7510's 10th birthday!

author: aronake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 04:30:13 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on April 03, 2025, 08:32:30 pmIts pretty competitive in the filed of lame firmware updates, but thisone is really toward the top! New format of serial numbers and and a new end user license agreement.... Or do Keithely the habit of doing fixes in firmwares they don't disclose? That would be quite strange if that was the case for test equipment.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 05:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: aronake on August 12, 2025, 04:30:13 pmI think it's fairly common. Often only larger bugs are listed. I think it's less common to list every single thing in a firmware update, unless there really isn't much to report.