Ebay Rant - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2015, 11:14:09 pm
content: A bit of a rant about eBay Sellers:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tenma-Oscilloscope-72-740-40MHZ-/331605244710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d35367b26So I found this on eBay and considered buying it for a while (though I knew it would probably be a repair job), until another user pointed out that the seller is probably BS'ing me:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tenma-oscilloscope-manuals/I decided to do a little more poking around, and found something that bothered me. Firstly, the listing was re-listed after being sold (I've been watching it for a while to see what would happen) with the exact same pictures. Secondly, he states "I do not have a power cable that fits this unit so I couldn't test it." This bothered my because, well, everyone has an IEC cable SOMEWHERE. I looked around on his account, and found he had this:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-SW65-/331609561607?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d35785a07for sale. He even states in the description: "Unit works great" The pictures of the back show the same plug as the Tenma Oscilloscope.So what I'm wondering is, how was he able to power up an amp, but not an oscilloscope with the exact same plug? The logical answer is, of course, he did power up the scope, found it didn't work, and decided to sell it saying "Assumed to be working." Sometimes eBay sellers infuriate me.Anyway, if anyone has a differing opinion, I'd love to hear it. Should I even bid on this?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2015, 11:17:59 pm
content: Contact him and ask about it, I'd love to hear this guy's response.

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2015, 11:18:35 pm
content: Doing that currently

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2015, 11:21:51 pm
content: Alright, done. Sadly, he probably wont reply before the auction is over. 4 hours remaining, d'oh!

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2015, 11:22:45 pm
content: Yeah if he even replies at all, I'd love to see how he tries to squirm out of this.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 01:54:10 am
content: Gee, from the title I thought this was going to be an ebay-bashing session, for which I'd happily put on some steel-capped boots, and join the kicking.Instead you're complaining about some guy listing a possibly nice scope for $1, but he's either too lazy to power it up, or knows it's dead. And he's listing as 'for parts...'. His only 'crime' is to not say "I am lazy" or "I know this is dead/ratted for parts/whatever. So, just bid accordingly.I'd guess the previous buyer failed to pay.Seriously, haven't you anything better to complain about?

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 01:55:50 am
content: Hey man, just felt like I needed to share my story, no need to get angry

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:05:18 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 21, 2015, 01:55:50 amI'm not angry, just surprised you considered that 'bad'. Far, far worse things happen in ebay. From sellers, buyers, and ebay themselves.If you're looking for a cheap scope, set up a snipe bid of $10 on that one.https://www.bidnapper.comor any other sniper, or do it manually.Mainly just don't let yourself care if you win or lose.Maybe it works, maybe it's a hollow shell. $10...Edit: Oh, I meant to add, sometimes 'suspect smells' like that in listings can be good. They scare overly emotional bidders away, so you can get a cheaper deal. So long as you're not betting big bucks on a risky item, that's good.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:06:03 am
content: This is completely outrageous, demand He calibrate it and relist it as "used" instead "for parts" immediately. If you find evidence He had to relist it due to non payment make sure you report him as well. As for not knowing what an IEC cable is, criminals like these should not be allowed to auction electronics on 99c starts. Don't get me started on the fact that it's re-badged!

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:07:05 am
content: See, someone agrees with me

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:08:12 am
content: Think I should buy it?

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:18:20 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 21, 2015, 02:08:12 amDepends on what your expectations are and the price your willing to pay for the risk. Buy it at a sniped $10 and even if parts only would make an educational tear down.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:20:38 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 21, 2015, 02:08:12 amWrong approach. You should decide on a max $ you'd pay, given the circumstances, and set up a snipe bid.That way you don't goad anyone else to start bidding against you. At end of auction you either get it for less than your chosen ceiling, or you don't.If you watch the bid values vs time lists for ended auctions, you'll notice that most serious buyers use snipe bids, that show up in the last few seconds. For one thing, it's much less stressful. Also no need to waste time hovering over auctions near end.You're interested in it, clearly. How much can you afford to spend on a possible dud? That's your choice, but if you say "nothing" you're being unreasonable. But do consider what the shipping cost might be.Also that you've advertised the listing here, so more than usual numbers of possible bidders will be watching. In future, maybe don't do that if you're interested.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:22:42 am
content: Is it just me that saw the part about it being re-listed after it was sold once?

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:25:06 am
content: That's the thing I'm worried about.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:28:53 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on July 21, 2015, 02:22:42 amNo. But it happens. Buyer skipped out, or was overseas and didn't know what the shipping cost would be, or seller didn't want to post overseas... can be plenty of reasons.Was there long enough between 1st sale and relisting, for it to have been shipped and returned? If not, then it can't have been due to 1st buyer deciding he'd been ripped off.

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 03:15:23 am
content: It was relisted a day after being sold.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 03:31:31 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 21, 2015, 02:25:06 amWait, "This listing has ended" in your pic doesn't mean it sold. I don't have the listing number for the original listing so can't see it. Are you sure it sold? There should be a bidders list if so. If zero bids, it just expired and he relisted.

author: tyguy2
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 03:33:19 am
content: No it had 1 bid.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 03:34:45 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on July 21, 2015, 03:31:31 amhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Tenma-Oscilloscope-72-740-40MHZ-/331598891399

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 03:40:06 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 21, 2015, 02:08:12 amI bought something that guy said "seems to work fine but I don't know how to test" and it ended up being bad. When I said I wanted to return, he complained that other buyers asked him to test it and it failed, and if he'd known I would return it he could have sold it to the other buyers.Moral of the story - this guy lists it for parts or not working. Don't put any stock in his claim that he didn't test it. He probably didn't... maybe he did and he knows it doesn't work. But don't buy it expecting it to work. Most likely, even if it doesn't work, it's not like he's done a board level repair on it. So you might get lucky and it just needs a regulator leg re-soldered. Or maybe it has a giant hole in the PCB where the fire started.For a buck... or even 20 bucks... it seems like a fun gamble to me. Worst case, you turn around and re-sell it for parts or not working. No need to put anything in the description, just sell it as-is with a clear conscience (as long as you state the condition as for parts/non-working).

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 07:52:39 am
content: And if you're confused in the future...Don't buy or sell anything on ebay if you can't accept a certain amount of risk. Don't expect sellers to do anything they say or send the correct item or send the item in same condition. On the other hand, don't expect people to automatically be cheating you just because it doesn't go right. That is what the "report item", "item not as described" and "feedback" systems are for. You don't last long on Ebay cheating people.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 08:23:37 am
content: I tend to check completed listings for the same item, then I think to myself would I get it for less than 25% lower than what it would fetch normally at a certain price range. I then factor in the possible cost of replacing such as the CRT or a major component and the value of the item as spare parts and if I am happy I purchase.I expect honesty from any seller who has a professional knowledge of electronic items, more so If I find out they are a member of a forum such as this one, any less shows lack of morals, I feel there is no excuse to lie or deceive a buyer if you have this ability. Just be honest and say it is a dead donkey if it is. If I find the seller has limited or no knowledge of electronics then Caveat Emptor applies in my mind, in this case I would be looking at it and thinking " would I get more than the dollar I spent in spares on ebay or craigslist ". I know there are genuine bargains on Ebay, but be honest, if you truly think your going to get a piece of kit like this, even if outdated, for a dollar or two then you are kidding yourself,the seller isnt stupid and would know its worth if working, I would expect problems with it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 09:07:01 am
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 20, 2015, 11:14:09 pmReminds me of a particular seller currently selling some old vintage computer gear (old Mac classics etc...). He gave the usual spiel about "pulled out of a working environment" or "worked last time it was powered up" or something equally non-descript and useless. But then also goes on to state (and I paraphrase)"I will not power this unit up under any circumstances. This is the buyers responsibility".To me, either he is really fucking lazy or more likely that he clearly knows that they don't work or are very unlikely to work but is listing them for at a price that fully working units are selling for. I mean those who do their homework will realise that some of those old Macintosh's were notorious for dodgy and leaking capacitors and batteries which just corroded the motherboard.I found with eBay, the ability to read between the lines and look for information that is deliberately omitted or glossed over is absolutely essential.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 09:21:21 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 21, 2015, 09:07:01 amI guess another thing is that if he's that lazy, how well would he package something he is selling? Might come all smashed up in a box with two newspapers or something.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 11:19:43 am
content: He most likely has more then one for sale.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 02:25:16 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 21, 2015, 09:07:01 amIf it's not been powered on for years and you still want to buy it, then I see nothing unfair in him advising that testing is up to you. He is not hiding the fact that it may have a problem, you have to accept that computers decades old fail without warning unless they have been fully restored and stress tested.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 07:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on July 21, 2015, 02:25:16 pmOh I fully understand that, however if you're unsure of it's working condition, you say so. Don't beat around the bush. Especially if it's being sold as "used" rather than "not working/for parts". I think it's a little rich that a seller won't take a few moments to plug it in and switch it on, yet still expect several hundred dollars for what could be an expensive door stop. It's not a lucky dip.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 07:53:52 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 21, 2015, 07:20:54 pmI think the difference is between a collector who wants a deal and a seller who want's to sell it. Reality is despite it working there is a large chance for it to fail and him to be blamed no matter what. I'm not sure how Ebay deals with vintage electronics dispute cases, I just don't blame him. Anyway you're on an electronics engineering forum, you should just repair anything that comes broken.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2015, 08:17:44 pm
content: Quote from: tyguy2 on July 20, 2015, 11:14:09 pmWhile some of the other points are valid concerns, the relist/same-picture may be just for convenience.Tons of times, I have seen "photo for illustration only" and cases where they merely relist than posted it new - perhaps eBay price concern, perhaps keeping certain counters active (number of views, number sold).I don't know why a specific seller relist or reuse photo, but I have done it too and this was the reason:Some time ago, I sold my Jazz backup "system", 2 drives and a dozen or so cartridges. When I first listed the drive as a pair, it didn't sell. I relisted as single and sold the first drive. Then I do it again to sell the second drive - tried first packaging 2nd drive with 4 cartridge and after no-go, relisted with lower minimum-bid but with single cartridge.I also sold the cartridges in different configuration yet with the same photo. I separately sold a used-4-pack, an unopened-4-pack, and 4 loose singles all use this same picture. In this case, the photo was the unopened 4-pack sitting next to some opened singles front view and opened singles back view. The title alone describes if it was opened-4-pack, un-opened-4-pack, or single.When I have doubts about the listing/seller, I like to ask them a question. First I want to find out if there is a knowledgeable person at the other end and second find out how responsive they are. That, I think, is a million times more telling than if it is a relist or same phone.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2015, 12:30:31 am
content: I am an occasional seller on Ebay. If it is an old piece of gear that I got at an auction and don't want to mess with I will say something like condition unknown, or no obvious faults but not tested or whatever applies.When I pull something out of my own junk pile, I might not want to power it up, but might well remember powering it up a decade or more ago. In that case a worked last time description would be appropriate and I might well use it. Things that would fall under this description in my own junk pile would be old 5 inch floppy drives, 3.5 inch floppy drives, old Ethernet switches and cards and the like. I also have some old radios that I haven't operated for a decade, and don't have any interest in powering up. If the room vs nostalgia balance ever changes so that these go on the sales block the worked last time I tried description would go on. (I would probably mention the time of last use in the description).

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2015, 08:49:04 pm
content: personally, I find this really problematic as for example the German ebay store tells you to not list items as "used" when you don't know if the item is in working condition.If you look at thedefinitionof "used" it says (loosely translated):"items is used, may have signs of wear but is in good shape and fully operational. The item may be a demo unit or a return. Read the item description for details of possible defects or faults."So if you don't list exactly what is wrong (within your best abilities of course) the buyer must assume that the condition is according to the definition used by the German ebay store. At the very least you should know if it "powers up but seems to have issues" (and then give an example of an issue). An obscure item description is usually coupled with an "as is, no returns!", but that just doesn't work this easy in the German ebay. If you listed it as "used" and not clearly state that the item has defects or does not work, you will have to take the item back as it deviates significantly from the item description. You're best off giving a good item description with pictures of all the problematic spots you could find, or list it as "defect".This seems to be different in ebay.com (and other ebays perhaps?). Especially the US ebay, I pretty much assume that the item is defect when listed as "used" but "as is" or worse "pulled from a working environment"What is a 'working environment' anyway, the place people work at? The place that is functional after all the defective stuff was removed...?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2015, 09:37:44 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on July 22, 2015, 08:49:04 pmIt's the same on US eBay. This changed recently, and some sellers have not kept up.QuoteHa. Often it means a company where everyone was laid off, and the equipment was sold... a "no longer working" environment.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 02:54:22 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on July 22, 2015, 08:49:04 pmI guess I am a little confused about what the proper response should be. The choices that might apply in EBay's list are "New", "Used" and "Not Working, for Parts Only".One group here wants untested gear to be labeled "Not Working...". Clearly at least potentially inaccurate. I believe the same group wants the device tested and possibly calibrated, but doesn't want to pay any premium for this service. If I am going to take the time and effort to turn on and evaluate something I sell I am going to ask more for it.Another way of saying this is, when something is listed as unpowered, or untested, or whatever there is some buyers risk. If you want to reduce that risk you move up the quality chain. At the high end of the chain you buy new, warranted items. They do cost a great deal more.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 06:07:42 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 21, 2015, 07:20:54 pmIf it's listed as used, it HAS to work. Saying "as-is" or "not tested" doesn't mean anything - if it's listed as used, eBay consdiders that to be something that works as intended. If it doesn't work or it's not known, it must be sold "for parts or non-working". This is because so many shady sellers would sell shit they knew didn't work and claim it was simply untested.Also, if the seller ships it and it doesn't work, it's their responsibility to pay shipping back. So feel free to buy stuff listed as used, and if it doesn't work, you are covered by the eBay buyer protection and will get a full refund.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 06:12:44 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on July 23, 2015, 02:54:22 amBasically, you can't transfer the risk of "maybe it works, maybe it doesn't" to the buyer unless it is listed as "for parts/non working". This is actually very fair, IMO, because it gives sellers the choice. You can test it and make sure it works (and get more $$ for your item). Or you can list it as non-working/no-returns, take less and the buyer takes the risk.There is no way for eBay to know whether the seller knew something worked or not prior to listing... so this is, IMO, a fair way to do it.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 06:43:27 am
content: Personally i cant abide chinese sellers who mark an item as dispatched yet the hermes or other tracking number shows it has not even hit their system or been picked up days later

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 08:35:05 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on July 23, 2015, 02:54:22 amWhat happened to the group that just wants accurate item descriptionsReading a few posts back, I don't get the impression that anyone required you to offer free service?Making a good ebay add (and I guess this is my own definition of good) is actually surprisingly laborious. But good photos, e.g. of the oscilloscope actually measuring something, and a proper item description that also lists possible problems (a ding in the enclosure, cracked plastic of a trimpot, holy moly 5V in measures as 10V) not only increase your chance of a good sale but also reduce the chance of someone filing acaseclaim.Of course there can be limits to what you personally are willing to test but the minimum should be to see if the item works. I can't follow how you would post something as "used" when you never powered it up and hence, have no idea if the item fits ebay's definition of "used". Maybe there is also some seller's riskI suppose you could list a broken item as "used" if you described, in great detail, the parts that do not work or are faulty. I think this rule is more about not to create false confidence, which in my opinion "sorry, not tested. Won't touch it with a stick", "as is" and "pulled from a working environment" is when you claim the item is "used (but functional)".I may also misunderstand the as-is statement. I think it means "you buy what you see here right now, no less no more."?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 08:48:31 am
content: Quote from: Deathwish on July 23, 2015, 06:43:27 amYou mean the tracking numbers you get work? all the china post ones I have gotten barely show any info at all.

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 08:57:03 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on July 23, 2015, 08:48:31 amNo, Chinese sellers in the UK shipping with allegedly UK couriers, I have one now who marked it as shipped a day or so ago and supplied a Hermes tracking number, Hermes havent even seen it yet.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2015, 05:31:50 pm
content: Could be worse, you could have a SAPO Track N lose number, where the item has arrived ( month or so late at best) but where the tracking number shows it is still in another city.We loved the late unlamented PX couriers ( part of the railways) where they would get a parcel at 3PM, tracking would be live 2 minutes later, and they would email at 9PM that it had been lost. Next day rinse and repeat, the insurance covered the replacement and we got refunded both the waybill cost and got a free waybill for the next parcel. Typically 1 in 3 would go missing, and insurance was so cheap it made no sense not to have it, while they had no excess and paid within 24 hours. Some months our bill was zero, as they lost so much. No wonder they finally were closed after a few years of losing spectacular amounts of money.