AMD : Enabling Parallel Processing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 04:46:20 am
content: Brilliant. But will it deliver?

author: HardBoot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 04:52:50 am
content: I wish AMD made micros like Atmel/Microchip, they already make a ton of cheap CPUs for various markets.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 05:19:13 am
content: I'm waiting for AMD to ditch much of the backwards compatibility nonsense in x86 so that Intel would follow. (Or conversely, if Intel makes the move first, AMD would probably follow soon.)Really, the fact that x86 is still encumbered by backwards compatibility features (that are rarely, if ever, used nowadays) means it is at a disadvantage compared to ARM. I predict that eventually, one of the two big x86 makers would drop some backwards compatibility features in order to stay competitive once ARM catches up in terms of process.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 07:17:28 am
content: Quote from: HardBoot on August 28, 2012, 04:52:50 amIt would be awesome if they did! Well, every chip they make now beats the compeititor on the same price bracket.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 08:00:19 am
content: Would you buy a computer that had half the cpu instruction set locked away?It's all crap until they start releasingcompletedocs on these apus.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 08:45:00 am
content: Until software is made to use multicore its a waste of time.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:34:24 am
content: Modern Softwareismade to use multicore.Tell me one modern CAD that isn't faster with multicore (except that shithole DXDesigner)It's that they need to be written in OpenCL

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 02:41:33 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 28, 2012, 05:19:13 amIt's more than just the CPUs. The entire platform needs to move on. ATX needs to die, expansion cards need a new format more suited to high power cards.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 02:51:30 pm
content: What's with ATX again? I don't see a problemIf ATX didn't exist we would have all sorts of funny board sizes and many case sizes for the same form factor

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 03:37:15 pm
content: I really don't see the problem with any of it. CPUs add and shift. Modern x86 cpus are so optimized you can execute multiple instructions on every clock. The SIMD instructions in x86 are pretty simple to use, and they are fast as blazes. I used to love grinding out highly optimized assembly language code. Would be fun to work on these new pipelines, but so much of the features are closely guarded secrets made available only to the big players with patent portfolios and nda agreements, how the hell are you supposed to write code for an undocumented architecture?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 04:13:43 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 02:51:30 pm... We can have a new standard, y'know.

author: HardBoot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 04:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 28, 2012, 04:13:43 pmmATX, ITX, there's tons of standard form factors.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 04:35:19 pm
content: Quote from: HardBoot on August 28, 2012, 04:34:46 pm.. They're all just tweaks of ATX..

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 05:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 09:34:24 amSolid edge ! We have it at work on 8 core machines and it only uses one core. Why don't you tell me which ones do ?

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:52:35 pm
content: AutoCAD.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 06:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 28, 2012, 02:41:33 pmWhat's wrong with the form factor? Expansion cards have already moved on from ISA, to PCI, to AGP, to PCIe with as many lanes as your chipset can handle, so it's not as though the actual performance of the cards is being hobbled.How would you change the form factor so as to deliver a major, worthwhile benefit?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 07:16:34 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on August 28, 2012, 06:55:58 pmI'd get the connectors off the back. Route them through the edge connector and out somewhere else. Then you can have nice, unobstructed airflow in a seperate compartment to the cooler components. No need for the card to have a fan, front and rear fans in the enclosure and blanking pieces to force airflow over installed cards. Get rid of the extra power cables, too. Put them on the board.When you've got cards dissipating 250W+, the current design flat out fails.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 08:22:57 pm
content: Well first of all, look at the cables carrying the current, how thick do you think the traces will be?The current thickest trace for PCI-E is"PCI Express cards are allowed a maximum power consumption of 25W (×1: 10W for power-up). Low profile cards are limited to 10W (×16 to 25W). PCI Express Graphics 1.0 (PEG) cards may increase power (from slot) to 75W after configuration (3.3V/3A + 12V/5.5A). PCI Express 2.1 increased the power output from an x16 slot to 150W so that some high-performance graphics cards can be run from the slot power alone. Optional connectors add 75W (6-pin) or 150W (8-pin) power for up to 300W total."1) It's a pain in the arse to push the cable onto the motherboard (Very recessed)I would certainly keep the connectors there at the edge and the most efficient method with a vapor chamber is with a onboard fan ( I'll tell ya, doing what you mentioned will require a massive heatsink )Look carefully, they will randomly place connectors all overThat last graphic card chews at least 400W

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 08:32:10 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 08:22:57 pmNot a big problem.QuoteWhat cable?!QuoteWe already have massive heatsinks. Massive heatsinks which are air-starved in multi-card setups.QuoteNot if the standard tells them not to. ps. I've seen more than a few GPUs in my time, thank you.QuoteYes, and it runs hot as stink for it.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:07:30 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 28, 2012, 08:32:10 pmThe main ATX 24+4pin connectors are already maxed out. You want more on the motherboard? And heavenly thick traces?Quote

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:23:05 pm
content: For the love of..Would you PLEASE stop and LISTEN when I say that I'm not talking about anything even REMOTELY like an ATX system? It won't use that style of PSU. Or connector.As for air starved, have you ever seen a system with more than two expansion cards in it? There is NO ROOM for sucking air in the side when you fill a system up.Edge connectors: Connectors placed on the edges of a PCB. Like existing PCI-E connectors and those stupid SLI link connectors. We only need one connector: At the bottom. No need for the DVI/HDMI/DP outputs to be on the card itself: Put them elsewhere. Route them through the main connector on the bottom of the card.No need for big, annoying power cables to the cards: Use proper, high current power connectors from board to board.I amnotdescribing a single-board single-plane arrangement like an ATX motherboard. But that's all you know and can think of.And for the love of all that is unholy,STOP PUTTING GIGANTIC IMAGES INLINE

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:28:07 pm
content: Carry on bitching

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 09:28:07 pmThank you for perfect examples of the problem.Now imagine if they didn't need fans in the back. Imagine if the DVI connectors weren't there, and it was just straight, unrestricted flow through the heatsinks. Get rid of the ugly, awkward power connectors on the top. Say hello to 20% more heatsink area with 50% less impedance.Now imagine that instead of hanging there, pulling down on the sockets, those cards are actually sitting in that aspect. Except there's no motherboard to the side of them. The CPU is in a seperate compartment above, and the PSU and HDDs below. 120mm fans front and back, and a power and data bus running up one side of the case.Still the same 'tower' format we all know and love. A hell of a lot less legacy design.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:35:37 pm
content: Carry on living in your fairylandand it doesn't even matter at all when you've this many fans

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2012, 09:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 09:35:37 pmThe one where I have a mind of my own and don't see the need to be constrained by standards set in the 90s? I think I will!QuoteYes, let's resolve design flaws with LOADS MORE FANS!!!!Look at the amount of wasted space in that rig. Nice TJ07 case, shame they had so many alignment issues.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 12:52:32 am
content: What I would like to see is for the GPU manufacturers to agree on a socket standard, so that the GPU/memory module would be installed in the motherboard and the heatsink bolted on top like another CPU. That'll allow for much shorter connections between the CPU and GPU and much better thermal management, especially in small form factor designs.A modification that could be made to the ATX standard would be to remove the "jail bars" that separate the back of the expansion cards. Then expansion cards would have more room for vents. They could also replace DVI connectors with HDMI or DisplayPort connectors.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 01:54:53 am
content: Can I suggest that when posting images, that you resize them?Not everyone has large screens and even if you do, they are still annoying.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 01:57:03 am
content: Quote from: GeoffS on August 29, 2012, 01:54:53 amI doubt many people here have a large enough display for the quite insane 3000x4000 odd image he posted earlier. Inlining that is not just lazy, it's plain rude.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 02:21:13 am
content: You can attach images to your post. The forum software should generate thumbs for that.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 02:26:59 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on August 29, 2012, 02:21:13 amAnd then when you click the thumbnail, you get an agonizingly long loading period.. and then a gigantic, ridiculous, far-larger-than-needed image.

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 03:57:28 am
content: The forum software can restrict the size of an uploaded image but not the maximum dimensions of the image uploaded.You have to rely on the common sense of the person posting as to whether what they upload, is reasonable.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 07:15:49 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 29, 2012, 12:52:32 amSomething like MXM?

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 07:59:27 am
content: MXM is a good idea but being on the board itself leaves much to be desired1) What about Quad-GPUs?2) Quad-GPUs take up less space with a HD7750, yes but how about quad GTX680s or HD7970s?Vertical is still the way to go.anyway the heatsinks are already efficient as it is. yes sure it takes up 2 slots but at least it cools 300W to 80Cwhat's the size of CPU fans that cools 180W to 60C ?You decide who's better

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 01:23:23 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 29, 2012, 07:59:27 amYou mean slot-damagingly horizontal.QuoteOh, yes, so there's no room for improvement whatsoever, let's just use the same form factor for another 20 years. Change and original thought are, as we all know, not useful.

author: Flávio V
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 06:34:58 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on August 28, 2012, 09:34:24 amMultisim and Ultiboard 11.0...

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2012, 06:51:15 pm
content: Quote from: Flávio V on August 29, 2012, 06:34:58 pmPowerhungry CADs*

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 01:04:19 am
content: Quote from: T4P on August 29, 2012, 06:51:15 pmXilinx ISE is really bad about only being single threaded, so on a Core 2 Duo, it takes a long time (minutes) to recompile the design even for a relatively low end FPGA. A Sandy Bridge i7 takes care of it pretty quickly, but I'd imagine that it would still take a significant amount of time with a complex design on a high end FPGA.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 01:23:05 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 28, 2012, 09:23:05 pmgigantic is when only 10% of an image viewable on monitor at a time. looking back at what he posted, those images are "medium" where i can load more images on my screenor is he already edited the image size? if so case closed.Quote from: Monkeh on August 29, 2012, 01:57:03 amso you are not entitled to enter one of the forum there (somewhere out there), inlining is... "compulsary", you get banned if not doing so. oh ok... 3000x4000 is near to GIGANTIC.back on topic... why dont you just build a hydrogen chamber and be done!? for me, i'll wait when a processor can find the nth prime number in one cycle CPU operation.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2012, 02:18:16 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 30, 2012, 01:23:05 amHe's edited. He was posting images not fully viewable on any normal display on the market. Even the big 30" ones can't display them whole.