Thermal Imaging Device to buy in 2023, handheld or Android plugin? Budget: low.. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 04:17:19 am
content: Thermal Imaging Device to buy in 2023, handheld or Android plugin? Budget: low-ish to realistic.Hi folks, hopefully this ask (or arx..) hasn't been posted (too much) before.Considering (finally) to get a thermal imaging device so I can 'see' and or compare what heat issues may be present,in the event the usual multimeter probing/logging, infrared thermometer zapsand visual and smell diagnostics don't quite cut it.They look like a very handy gadget for quick looks at dodgy circuit breakers under load, and other switchboard failings too.Plus I need to 'keep up with the Joneseses..' and hopefully diagnose dramas faster and better and get them sorted( = more time for deckchair and beer activities..)Is there a cheap (-ish) Android phone addon available that has decent performance (no iStuff please, over all that..)and dedicate an Android phone just for this purpose (and save time insulting telemarketards and cold calling cretins)or should I roll with a handheld Uni-T 260B or something similar.Pros and Cons for either type?i.e. looking for best bang for buck for occassional use or weird scenarios,and something that won't die six months in, from non use or storageor faulty batch or dud firmware.I just know my luck won't be good on such a first purchase, unlike other test gear and tools which have never been a punt so far.I suspect many of these devices regardless of price may or may not be'buy once, cry once'and I would like to avoid'buy once, cry once, REPEAT..'Does a spend of $600 to $900 AUS sound realistic?Any thoughts or similar post directions are welcomeHope it made sense and thanks in advance

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 08:27:06 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 14, 2023, 04:17:19 amI would not suggest that - you are always just one accidential drop or bump away from damagin the device and the phone.I would suggest always a handheld imager! But that is my pers. opinion - there are cheap and capable devices like a P2 Pro or others.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 14, 2023, 04:17:19 amIt's not a bad device but you have basically no useful software for reporting!Quote from: Electro Detective on January 14, 2023, 04:17:19 amGetting into thermography is always not that easy as is sound - these are complex devices and you need to learn a lot. It's not a point and shoot camera and you need to be capable to interpret the heat-patterns correctly to come to the right conclusions.But no - Infiray, Uni-T, Guide Sensmart and Hikmicro are great devices and you can use them for many things. It's amazing how far we have come - a luttle over decade ago you would need to spend multiple tousends USD to get the performance of a UTi260B or similiar cameras.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 14, 2023, 04:17:19 amYes - a friend of mine does building-inspections with a Hikmicro B20 (600 USD + tax) for his living.I would consider the following cameras:UTi260B / UTi690B:Same camera with just another model-number, capable butno manual level and spanwhich lilmits you in some cases, basicallyno reporting software.Infiray C200/C210:Nice and capable camera with a really great sensor butno manual level and spanwhich lilmits you in some cases, verybad reporting software.Guide PC210:Nice and capable camera with a really great sensor,manual level and spanallows you to handle basically all situations,reporting software is OK. Has aissue to factor in the reflected temp.So you not the best option for building inspections.see:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-review/Hikmicro B10/B20/Pocket2:Best package from all chineese sellers. Cameras arefactory calibratedand come with a calibration cert.Best reporting-softwareby far and thatfor the only option in my opinion when you need to do prof. work. Image-Quality is not that great as Infiray but close. Hikmicro is also vera active with development and work hard to improve the tools. They have also a local dealer network and good support.see attached images!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 09:48:45 am
content: Thank you for the suggestions, images and go/no go advicewith the android plugin I was thinking to have a USB-C lead extender from phone to thermal devicewith an angled plug USB-C lead going into the Android phone,to avoid the guaranteed -oops- factor on drops and bumps, and make it less awkward to hold.That said if there is no quality, feature or dollar advantage having a phone hosting the thermal imaging device,then I prefer the standalone handheld style anyway, like the laser pointing infrared thermometers.I just hope the rechargeable batteries embedded in these products don't go 'alkaline' on me, or fail to take a charge after long no use periods.I would prefer an external powered device via removable batteries and or charger etcor at least a unit that can be opened up and checked and servicedThe UTi260B seems a decent all-rounder =

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 01:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 14, 2023, 09:48:45 amIf you need no reporting or analysis of images on the PC then yes. Otherwise it's a nogo.I told you also a missing manual setting for level and span make some situations really difficult to handle.Think you have to compage 3 things and each time the camera try to maximize the contrast - after you have 3 very similiar images but based on different scales.Manual level and span allow you to set the scale for all images identically and you can easly compare images based on the visual results.For example you inspect breaker boxes - and you know decent temp. would be between 20°C and 45°C. So you set the Level and Span for 20-45°C and then you look at the breaker-boxes:1st is basically all purple/blue-ish - so you know all is cold and you don't even reach temps. near 45°C2nd shows a few orange-spots and you know you have warmer sports but nothing crazy3rd one shows one breaker blown out in pure white and the cable also - so you know that one is overheating!Make the same thing with automatic level and span and you get 3 images containing colors from blue to light orange.On the 1st image light orange means 26°COn the 2nd image light orange means 41°COn the 3rd image light orange means 79°CYou still can compare it but you have to pay very close attention to the temperature scale. This is also not very visible to a client in that way and you have to constantly refer to the temp. scale.If you want a cheap tool then go rather with a Guide PC210. Reporting is at least doable with there software, you have manual level and span. The camera is not really much more expensive then a Uni-T260B.Banggood sells one for a little over 600 AUD:https://au.banggood.com/Guide-PC210-256x192-2_4-inch-LCD-Screen-Industrial-Thermal-Imager-20C~150C-High-Power-Fast-Charge-Thermal-Camera-Thermal-Inspection-Tool-p-1974682.html?imageAb=1&cur_warehouse=CN&a=1673701331.3094&DCC=AU&currency=AUD&akmClientCountry=CZIf you look around you maybe find even a cheaper offer!I have seen the B20 is in Australia a little over 900 AUD. So you need to decide if better reporting capabilities would justify the extra cost.But I would not recommend a Uni-T or Infiray C200/C210 until they update there firmware and offer also a setting for manual level and span!!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2023, 10:33:25 am
content: Thanks againYour product suggestions are a way better bet than some of the Fluke, Klein and Milwaukee offerings at the local tool and electrical stores.Somehow their specs did not justify the prices asked and TBH their specs and features appeared no better than some Ebay and Amazon cheapies priced 75 percent lower

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2023, 02:24:26 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 15, 2023, 10:33:25 amFluke was never cheap or latest tech and they will never be. Fluke is good for stabilit - you can be sure you can get 15 years later also the same tool which work the same. That's what Fluke is famous for. So big enterprices which have internal tainings can use there trainings- and procedural manuals for a very long time. And they can get the same tools for a long time so that there is no need to re-train employees.I don't know Milwaukee and Kein.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 15, 2023, 10:33:25 amThat is not true - you get maybe decent reporting tools or other benefits. With Fluke for sure! And you maybe get recognision from your clients and from a lawer / judge. Each person in court know that they don't need to question the quality of Flir or Fluke tools... At least in case the operator shows a calibration cert.But you are not a approved professional expert which makes a living with his expert opinions - so you probably don't need that.Hikmicro is a good compromise between a decent reporting software, price, relayability and camera performance. I am myself a prof. expert and I have each year some cases in a court of law. Usually not about thermography but I use my TIC sometimes to visualize things or for some other experiments. So I can tell you Hikmicro cameras are decent enogh that I don't fear to present a thermography report in my expert opinions.I have other cameras and I have played around with others for my publications and I can tell you compared with Infiray, Guide, Flir and Fluke you get the best overall package in terms of price to performance. Flir and Fluke will deliver you a better expirience with reporting and analysis but for a 3-4x higher price for the same pixel-count in the sensor.My opinion is also backed up by a few friends for mine running part- and full-time thermography busineses which choose a M30, B20 and Pocket2 as workhorses for their operations.If you would need the cheapest way to get some electronics repair shop equipped with thermal imaging I would say UTi260B, Infiray C200, Guide PC210 give you the same image-quality or even a bit sharper imags for less money. But they are more limited in other ways and unuseable or barely useable for reporting. It also do not matter if a shorted cap. reach 80°C or 95°C - so unrelayable measurements are no issue.In your case I assume you can need reporting at least from time to time and you may need to have relayable temp. readings. That's why I suggested Hikmicro.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 08:29:57 am
content: One last question (I hope.. )My purpose/s will be basic 'point and shoot' troubleshooting electrics/electronics or verifying situation normal, without client cert proofs etcoccasional plumbing inspect/tracing (= optional)and back in the tool bag or shelf till needed again.Therefore at this point, are there any decent units that take replaceable batteries? AA, AAA, C, D, 9v, and or rechargables like Eneloops or generic 1.2v etcI have thought about it, after recently wasting 2 afternoons 'mopping up' saving costly meters from battery leakage and terminal corrosion issues,same scenario again..two years later (some lessons don't bite hard enough till it sledges the wallet and time wasted)I'm very good at battery cleanups now, but have decided enough is enough and now all meters will have no batteries fitted till needed, and removed immediately at use end.Each meter that needs it gets a cheap screwdriver inside it's case, so no headbanging looking for a screwdriverand the batteries stored alongside the meter in some leakproof plastic bag or container.I would rather waste the extra time fitting and removing batteries , and be half sure the batteries will be ok,rather than unpaid nightmarish work recovering expensive equipment (again)and lining battery industry 'dividend addict' pockets, with more money they don't need.They won't be cutting manufacturing corners and operating on near zero R+D, to sacrifice my time and expense any time soon again!Same deal with mobiles phones, if the batteries are not user accessible for checks and replacement, those phones are not for me, regardless of features and 'latest model' factor.Android flagship models from 2014 with replaceable batteries still work fine for me and others, for basic phone use and most apps.Gaming is another matter for those with time to play and need the latest processor horsepower.Yet another Mini Rant aside..Are there thermal imagers where one can at least crack the case and access the internal battery, in case it dies for whatever reason ?Thanks heaps markb1980fwiw I realize there are many posts like this that go into awesome detail, but I thought some tech battlers may want to get their feet wet first with a decent unit priced within their means,and then go with something better be it an upgrade or as a secondary unit later.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 09:00:01 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on January 16, 2023, 08:29:57 amNo! But you can charge most cameras from a powerbank on the go.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 16, 2023, 08:29:57 amMost entry level cameras are not made to change the batteries. Then you would need to look up to higher end series and then you will still have prop. akkus and not standard-batteries.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 16, 2023, 08:29:57 amIn most cases yes but you are looking in such case for a full disassembly and then you have to see which replacement-battery you will need.Quote from: Electro Detective on January 16, 2023, 08:29:57 amI am not sure if I get your point but my expirience is that you usually pay twice if you safe money on the wrong side.I would also not worry to much about dead batteries or stuff like that. I see that so - my TIC has made me till now so much money that I could get 20 new ones and if the camera or batterie would die in the future I would just get a new model with better resolution and that one would make me again so much money within the lifespan that i can afford with ease to replece it a few years later.I had before a C2 with a crappy 80x60 pixel resolution - why on earth should I invest money after a few years in that TIC instead of getting a Pocket2 or other moden camera?! See youself how much better is the resolution on the attached image!

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 04:08:16 pm
content: You are probably looking at decent second hand to get that kind of repairability. You'd get a decent core with decent resolution though. 320x240 has been fairly standard for 20 years, and sensitivoty has not budged much eitherIt was only the (relatively) very cheap consumer end that brought in 80x60 junk as markb notes.Downside is that you are unlikely to get focussable in budget, so while home / electrical is OK, short range electronics work is a bit more effort.Cameras like FLIR H (a monocular) took AA's, as did a number of the models of fire service camera (which are often big & heavy). Some may also take standard Sony camcorder Li-Ion batteriesAgain given a bit of service level work you can fit whatever battery you want.Not much going through eBay AUS at present - be aware that the Argus4 P7030 is a 160x120 - and horribly overpriced.I have not got an export license for AUS so cannot help direct.