7 Earth-sized planets orbiting nearby star - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 07:14:06 pm
content: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39034050

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2017, 08:25:54 pm
content: I find it both interesting and frustrating in equal measure: A really exciting discovers... but unfortunately it's 40 lightyears away so we'll never get to go there, see a picture of them, or know for sure.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 12:16:35 am
content: The planets are Earth sized, but even when they are in the so called habitable zone, theywill be very different than the Earth.As the star is small and not very hot, in order to have temperature that allows for liquid water,they need to be much closer to the star.But the luminosity goes as the distance^2, while the tidal effect of the star on the planetgoes as the distance^6.All the planets will then be tidally locked. Which mean that they will have one hemispherealways facing the star, and the other one in the dark.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 05:48:34 am
content: I am just simply amazed at what they can determine with relative confidence from just crazy small observations. Amazing. Further proof that the universe is just full of planets and most likely life. We need to change our thinking. We think of life as so rare. Because life happened here it almost means it must happen other places. One day we will point a radio telescope at one of these planets and its going to light up like crazy with all sorts of activity.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:16:35 am
content: Apparently they are all tidal locked to the sun so the same face always point to the sun.Not a very good pre-requisite for life.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:18:13 am
content: Quote from: calexanian on February 23, 2017, 05:48:34 amOne of the biggest surprised of the 20th century was that we tried that and found (and continue to find) nothing.The answer why that is so is as equalling intriguing as finding something.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:28:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 23, 2017, 06:18:13 amWe assume a similar (actually exactly the same) technological progression. We are looking for evidence of our technology. If there is life within reach and they have progressed faster or slower than us, we may never see or not see for decades or centuries, evidence of life.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:43:23 am
content: Quote from: calexanian on February 23, 2017, 05:48:34 amIt really gives me nightmares to think one of those civilisations (if they exist) pointed their radio telescope in our direction, only to pick up a signal that they decode to an image like this:

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:46:51 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 23, 2017, 06:43:23 am

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:58:12 am
content: Could be worse. They could pick up cable news. The death fleets would be launched at us ASAP!

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:59:12 am
content: Correction:Quote from: calexanian on February 23, 2017, 06:58:12 am

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 07:11:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 23, 2017, 06:16:35 amDunno, actually in such conditions you can find stable comfortable temperature zones on the planet.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:04:54 pm
content: There is absolutely no evidence or even a hint there is intelligent life on other planets. To say its a matter of when and not if, is bad science.Assuming there are TRILLIONS of planets around capable of supporting life, there is no evidence whatsoever of any intelligent signal transmitted from a radio transmitter. SETI has found nothing (well nothing proven). One would think, that among the plethora of earth-like planets the human race is not the universe's most advanced race served by a rich set of chemical elements found in nature, meaning at least one planet would have intelligent life capable of transmitting their version of Justin Bieber's Christmas Album. But there is nothing. Zilch. The fact we have heard nothing suggests to the evolutionists there is not even bacteria out there.The Americans are more optimistic though. Forget Area 51 - they have a line at immigration at LAX with a sign saying "Aliens Queue Here"The planets are 40 light years away? That means 1977. Then our distant planets should be receiving this about now, showing some weird lifeforms acting strange like lifting up their dresses...

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 01:40:03 pm
content: The universe could be, and probably is, teeming with life. But inverse-square law, mind-boggling distances, powerful signals radiated only for a very short while and two or more technological civilizations existing at the same point in time makes the chance of us discovering anyone very, very unlikely. Unfortunately. I so wish that we'd discover signs of intelligent alien life, and I can't think of anything bigger than that, but I don't think it'll happen.Ars of course also has anarticleon this discovery.

author: LordNobady
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 02:27:00 pm
content: I still believe that the best prove of intelligent live in the universe is that thy did not contact us.Before we go to look for intelligent live on other planets perhaps we best search on this one first. I have heard rumors mice are intelligent.

author: snarkysparky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 02:30:44 pm
content: Shhhh Be very very quiet. Beware the Dark Forest.....

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 02:42:27 pm
content: This is indeed a really cool discovery. The concept of habitable planets is a really awesome one. I wonder if they get lot of quakes though, being so close to each other would perhaps have gravitational influence that may even warp it's structure somewhat like the moons of jupiter experience. They don't seem to mention anything about that though so maybe it's not an issue.

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 05:28:44 pm
content: That's the problem with small stars, tidally locked planets in the habitable zone and massive solar flares. Red dwarfs have some of the strongest flares. Though because red dwarfs are less bright they're easiest to investigate for planet hunters. The commonality of planets around stars implies there should be good number of planets out there similar to Earth. They say there's at least as many planets as stars probably more so even if it's just one in ten thousand, that's still like twenty million Earth like planets just in our galaxy.I don't think it's strange at all we've not seen evidence of other intelligent life by looking for radio signals in our galaxy. That's a very narrow set of criteria to look for. A civilization would have to be on the same technology track as us and their age would have to be similar taking into account the time it takes for signals to propagate. I don't think it's possible to just pick up local broadcasts on an alien world, signals don't have the strength and our listening equipment is not sensitive enough. They would have to intentionally broadcast toward us. Why would anyone do that, I don't think they would.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 06:22:24 pm
content: The thing with radio is that pretty soon ( under a century) of the discovery of radio we went from a signal with simple modulation ( thus easy to detect as not natural)to a very complex set of spread spectrum transmissions, that to the casual observer, without the knowledge of the spreading key, the rate and the other parameters, is just about the same as pure wideband noise.This was done to increase data rates, so it is not too hard to think of others not doing the same, and the RF energy from them, well attenuated and with some natural multipath doing a good job of making it undecodable, appearing here as just a slightly increased noise over some wide range. The same with our transmissions, they are just slightly above the Rf noise of the sun, at those frequencies that are easiest to get out of the atmosphere and into space.There are no plans to have a very large radio telescope antenna ( and this would have to be large, to cover the range from 10Hz to 100GHz) made and sent out into a solar orbit, well away from the RF noise from Earth, and to look for RF noise above the background. The existing ones are there to look for deliberate signals, and we are not doing much of that ourselves, just a few tiny beams that were short period.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2017, 08:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: cheeseit on February 23, 2017, 01:40:03 pmDon't bother me with the facts. I am content here in fantasy land. What you say is true though. the massive expanse of not only space, but time is what keeps me from green 60's Orion slave girls.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 04:09:46 pm
content: Having moons themselves (inevitable?) could break a tidal lock.Also, as there is evidence that Ceres and even Pluto have liquid water oceans, not to mention Jovian or Saturnian moons, the "habitable" zone issue might not be as big a deal as we once thought.Fascinating discovery, though.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 04:44:14 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 23, 2017, 06:22:24 pmTo paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced signal is indistinguishable from noise"

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 05:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 23, 2017, 01:04:54 pmThe biggest problem is an overlapping period of high technological abilities which would allow contact over great distances. The probability of such an overlap is extremely unlikely given the cosmic timescale. How long will we (humans) retain our current level of technological abilities? Even if it last thousands of years that period is insignificant so projects like SETI are borderline useless. Nevertheless it would be interesting to travel to planets which could have supported life at some point (Mars for starters).

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 09:44:16 pm
content: Sort of what I was just thinking. Especially back in the beginning of life on Earth, we tend to round off the numbers because of the huge magnitude. So say if one advance we are fairly sure of took 300 million years on Earth. What if on Planet A the equivalent advance took only 200 million years, but the planet was formed around a similar time as Earth? Life thee could be 100 million years more advanced. Or the opposite, it too Planet B 400 million years to achieve the same advance. They could be a million years BEHIND us.Or even if the progression takes exactly the same amount of time. If one planet cooled sufficiently to start the process hundreds of millions years before Earth. Or another planet that formed after the Earth was already 400 million years old.There could be millions of planets with life, billions even, but the chances for technological overlap that would allow us to talk to each other seems awfully slim.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 10:28:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 24, 2017, 05:42:52 pmThe timescale is skewed. There would be more like a normal distribution over time of the opportunity for an advanced civilisation like ours. We might be near the peak, and if we are, the chances of another occurrence of a civilisation like ours would be biased higher at this time. I agree, the period for RF transmissions on earth is relatively very brief, from the first days (Marconi and others), to the loss of the capability to produce radio signals which might disappear with the inevitable collapse of human civilisation, probably relatively soon.If there are atrillionearth size planets around, you would think there would be at least one one with similar contributing factors to RF transmissions to ours:Raw materialsIntelligenceCultureTimingOr are we so damned unique, being one-in-a-trillion?With RF transmissions, the CB radio peak of 1977 would be reaching our planets 40 light years away by now. As far as "pointing the antenna to us", the argument is almost irrelevant. There is only, say, 9dB difference in signal power between a beam and an isotropic radiator. There would be a spread of CB signals with the RF biased in every direction. And there were pirates with their 400W linear amplifiers. If the aliens tried to decode the CB transmissions, what would they make of "Breaker, breaker. Are there any YL's on channel for an eyeball?"Travelling to other planets has already been achieved... Donald Trump is clearly on another planet.

author: Bryan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:07:41 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 24, 2017, 09:44:16 pmAnd that is the point that many people don't seem to understand, the odds of intelligent life developing at the same time from the beginning of the universe is so remote, even with trillions and trillions of stars and the distances between it just becomes a fantasy. There may, probably was super advanced intelligent life out there that became extinct millions or even billions of years ago. We will never know. Even the odds of humans being around for another million years is probably just a hopeful wish.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:22:35 pm
content: Quote from: Bryan on February 24, 2017, 11:07:41 pmI thought the odds were pretty reasonable that we'd findsomethingthough, even if they went extinct millions or billions of years ago and the signal is only just getting to us.

author: Bryan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:40:15 pm
content: But if they existed say a million years ago and only communicated for a couple hundred/thousand years of that, we wouldn't be in the window to hear. I can't imagine the odds the transmissions would land on our doors step in the last 50 years since we have been listening.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2017, 11:48:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 24, 2017, 11:22:35 pmThat is assuming 'they' used high power FM transmitters for radio & TV broadcasts and other communications for an extended period.

author: W2NAP
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 12:51:36 am
content: the whole "listening for alien broadcasts" is a 50/50 anyway. since we are "primitive" we could be listening in on a advanced alien conversation and not even know it.

author: JenniferG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 12:53:57 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 22, 2017, 08:25:54 pmYa never know!Maybe in there is an after-life we get to infinitely and instantly travel the universe

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 01:50:20 am
content: Quote from: BryanYou're optomistic :-) I'd guess at 1,000yrs absolute MAX (maybe closer to 200-300yrs). Forgetting everything else, a species that has to grow constantly every year,and generate large amounts of waste (or any amount), has a finite life. You don't need a scientist to work that out. For most of the decision makers, all they are interested in is -their lifetime and possibly their kids. Someone else will sort it out or solve it after that. Yeah right.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 01:57:36 am
content: Quote from: JenniferG on February 25, 2017, 12:53:57 amSide note: My wife and I had an interesting verbal exchange along those lines. I told her I want to live long enough to see Halley's Comet since I missed the first opportunity. My wife (being religious) told me I could watch everything from heaven so it didn't matter but I told her that would be cheating

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 02:04:27 am
content: Sometimes I wish I wasn't born this era. 100 years later perhaps?Alexander.

author: Bryan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 02:30:14 am
content: Quote from: Bryan on February 24, 2017, 11:40:15 pmAnd to contradict myself, but what is the definition of intelligent life anyways. We think we are advanced and intelligent, but let's say you were part of a ant colony in the woods, you as the ant may think you are advanced, but your limited simple brain could not even recognize or comprehend or even know the human watching you from binoculars from behind a tree. Let alone even begin to understand the humans society and technology <g>.Sometimes I wonder if it's just like the movie Men in Black where in the end our universe is nothing more than marble in a storage box. <g>

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 05:03:39 pm
content: That's the thing, the window of existence is narrow in terms of cosmological time scales. Aside from the potential for self-destruction mass extinction events tend to occur every thirty million years or so, at least on our planet. There are probably more stable planets capable of bearing life, but also ones less stable. In terms of those vast time scales, advanced civilizations make come and go like a flash in the pan. If consideration is extended to any kind of life, whatever those criteria may be, then the window becomes greatly wider. Even finding microbial life anywhere else would bring a huge change to our understanding of who and what we are.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 05:11:36 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 23, 2017, 06:43:23 amYes, they may even be far more advanced than us but they still won't know who shot JR.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2017, 05:52:31 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 22, 2017, 08:25:54 pmPerhaps we could get the inhabitants to bring some photos next time they visit us.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 03:50:49 pm
content: Assuming there are 100 billion planets in the galaxy, and a middle estimate for the Drake formula of 100,000 planets currently harbouring life, that means 1 in a million planets might have life on them, which means surveying 100's of thousands of planets in order to find anything interesting. Sending probes to nearby stars is essentially impossible, even the nearest at 4 light years. Even at a zippy 1% speed of light, it's a trip of 400 years. A trip to a still "next door" star at 100 light years.. 10,000 years. We haven't built anything complex that lasts more than a few years without maintenance. We might be the only life within a 1000 light year volume. And the galaxy is 100,000 light years across.Radio comms is a terribly inefficient method of communication anyway, much more likely some sort of directed light transmission.The chances of finding intelligent life that can be contacted is basically zero. I'm with Fermi on that, any intelligent life with the ability to travel or communicate vast distances we would have encountered already. If travel or communication over long distance (e.g. 1000 ly) is never practically possible, we (and they) are trapped in their own tiny part of the galaxy.I conjecture that if don't find other examples of life within our own solar system, we will never find it anywhere.If that is true, that is the best possible result for us, if you think about. For the following reasons:1) the "Great Filter" isbehindus, notaheadof us2) we don't have to worry about being zapped by a super-advanced alien race3) there are plenty of habitable and un-inhabited planets for us to colonise4) profits!

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2017, 06:10:09 pm
content: I believe that life exists or existed 100% in other places. For human like intelligent life, in any form though...Alexander.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 03:03:26 am
content: So is time travel out of the question then, for all civilizations and all times.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2017, 07:22:13 pm
content: When everyone talks about this stuff, most people tend to look through this issue with the lense of our own technology. We have radio and very slow sublight speed rocket engines and all that and for some odd reason, they assume there is no technology that will ever be discovered beyond that. So they think in regards to that, that aliens must all be using the exact same technology.This is where things go wrong. I think use of radio technology for long range communications(ie between planets) is going to end up being but a thin slice of the over all time line of the human race. We have always come up with newer better things and I think we will discover some better way of comminicating in the future; even just 100 years ago no one foresaw what we have today.Yes, I think there is intelligent life out there but they are using more advanced means of communications and perhaps they dont want "younger" races to find out they exist until they decide otherwise.Imagine if we discovered a race like ours somewhere that loved war and blowing things up, do you think we would want to announce our presence to them?! We would either leave them alone, influence them in some way, or whipe them out. I would not be suprised if we were being watched ourselves.I always find it funny that some people say they believe one thing but others cant be possible. If you think life is out there, you have no standing to say that its not intelligent or to go even further and say we arnt being watched by it. By saying you believe that life is out there, you give rise to all the other what ifs that come alone with this.Its all what ifs at this point.Experiments have shown that organic compounds are easily created through natural processes. Chemistry has all the same rules 200ly away from earth as it does on earth. How spontaneous is it for these compounds to form into self replicating bits? Thats the information we do not have but if its even a fraction of a percent, you can bet it has happened outside of this planet.I think I typed more than I wanted but heres an old joke:Why do you think all the instruments looking for intelligent life are pointed away from the planet?

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 05:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on February 27, 2017, 07:22:13 pmNature commonly seems to surpass our own ability to imagine what's possible. Radio is not a very practical method for long range communications being limited by the speed of light. Considering how far our own technology has come in just a couple centuries there are things beyond imagination may come to pass given a few millennia (assuming nothing interferes with our development). Radio may only be a small slice in the development of a civilization so looking for it across the galaxy is probably not going to be fruitful.I don't think it's probable that a civilization capable of interstellar travel would actually come here and park on the White house lawn. More likely they would not announce their presence to us. We can't really even imagine where our own culture would be a few thousand years from now. Once we are capable of interstellar travel ourselves we may feel the same way about keeping our presence unknown when encountering other intelligent life.

author: Bryan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2017, 06:53:28 pm
content: Can't remember the show, but one expert felt the only way we would be able to accomplish any lengthy space travel with the current and likely future technology is with robots with some type of human consciousness uploaded or stored.