Segway i167 teardown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 06:40:47 am
content: I did not think that there is that much redundancy in a Segeay. Each board can control both motors, there are two relays on the boards behind the motors that can switch over the motor phases between the boards. Each board does have its own battery.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:58:11 am
content: They were premium devices (and pragmatically, Segway couldn't afford getting sued due to people faceplanting due to a motor stopping at 20 km/h). Bet the gears look pretty too ... Segway made a big deal out of the fact that they'd selected the gear ratios to be acoustically harmonious.Are you going to rebuild it? They were fun to ride. Felt like you were in the future.

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 06:43:41 am
content: I do not think that i'm allowed to drive this Segway model on the road here, but I do have enough space that is not an official road to try it. I will probably sell it after rebuilding the batteries. I do not think that there are any other issues besides the dead batteries.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:10:55 am
content: Yes, similar situation to Victoria, Australia ... but the police are usually more curious than anything else. Or at least, they were when Segways were a novelty.Hope you got all the keys with it. They unlock different maximum speeds. You want at least the red one (the quickest, 20 km/h).

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 09:31:45 am
content: Quote from: I wanted a rude username on April 20, 2020, 09:10:55 amThere is an upgrade (License plate holder, lights, ...) that will make Segways street legal, i do not know if this kit is available as an upgrade for old models, and i live on top of a steep hill, i could go shopping with it but not much more.Yes, i got the red key, all other keys are gone.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 11:35:22 am
content: In that case, you might want to record the key's code in case you or the next owner ever lose the key. I think the Dallas 1-wire button just has a static 64-bit code on it,super easy to read.Happy hacking!

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 03:36:45 am
content: I just happened to pick up 2 i167's as well, getting to rebuild the batteries too. Have you found any guides or anything or are you just flying blind?

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 12:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: mjm4306 on April 27, 2020, 03:36:45 amThere is not much information out there.German:https://www.ptpro.de/Akku-Reparatur-Segway-PTEnglish:https://www.mtobattery.com/pages/how-to-check-the-voltage-of-your-segway-batteryhttps://www.mtobattery.com/pages/segway-supportThere is some code on github, i do not know if this code works with Ni-Mh Packs, i will try that.https://github.com/martinbogo/i2-battery-diagnosticsThere are also some youtube videos but there is not much information in those.i've ordered 120 of these:https://ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/nimh/other/xcell-sub-c-1-2v-3600mah.htmlAnd now I did find out that i can't spotweld with more than 70A because spotwelder trips my 16A Type C fuse,when i set it to more current.I guess the next step is that i try to run the with my generator, i think that this should work. I will see...

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 10:18:26 pm
content: Thanks for that. I ordered 60 cells to start, they get here at the end of this week, hoping things go well. How did you cut open the case? I assume a rotary tool like a dremel?I'm gonna give that arduino project a shot too, I think I have most of the stuff lying around to do it, I also have 1 working battery to compare to.I'm not sure what you're using for a spot welder but I've had good luck increasing the pulses if thats an option on yours rather than just cranking the current, I get much better welds and penetration.Thanks for the help, keep me updated, I'll make sure to post anything I run into too.

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 09:25:49 am
content: Quote from: mjm4306 on April 27, 2020, 10:18:26 pmI did use a nylon hammer and a chisel to open the battery, sometimes just hammering on the seam does work, where this did not work, i used the chisel. I will also do only one battery first, the other one seems to be in a better condition.Quote from: mjm4306 on April 27, 2020, 10:18:26 pmI will try that this code too, i should have an spare arduino somewhere. But for now, it is clear that one of the two batteries is dead, the voltage of one 36V strings drops to 20V if i put any load on it. I do not need to tester to verify that this thing is dead.Quote from: mjm4306 on April 27, 2020, 10:18:26 pmIt is a spot welder from aliexpress, a new controller board for this thing is also a todo. But then also bigger main fuses for the house are also a todo, i do only have 3x25A at the moment i could upgrade the fuses to 40A but the electricity company is not reacting to my requestsQuote from: mjm4306 on April 27, 2020, 10:18:26 pmI will post here if i find out anything interessting...

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2020, 07:05:09 pm
content: Cracked open one of my batteries, they definitely look a bit worse for the wear, lots of corrosion on the positive terminals, and stone dead (0v on both banks). Any luck with getting off the "gorilla snot" that holds the cells in? Going to try a heat gun once I get some disposable gloves.

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 03:14:13 pm
content: The spot welder does now work, i've connected it by using a 20m 1mm² extension cord as a power resistor. Next todo is getting the old stuff out of the case. Will see how that goes...

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 03:52:51 pm
content: One pack is done, this "gorilla snot" is really hard to remove, i think cutting the bridges between the cells does help with getting them out.

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 03:46:39 pm
content: I've been hard at work too despite posting. I've gutted 2 packs now. I did a little experimentation on the happy temperature to remove the gorilla snot and found that if you heat your pack to about 175f, or ~80c (I stuck it in the heated chamber on my Stratasys Uprint) the adhesive pulls right out for the most part. I don't have any pics of removing the glue, but you can see from the stacks of my cells that some of them came out in the entire banks, and some came out terribly, the banks for the most part are the later half.I'm still waiting for 30 more batteries to complete the other half of the pack, but I welded some of my cells together yesterday as a test. I got some cheapo cells off amazon, and the wraps are terrible. 2 of my cells shorted just from rubbing the positive insulator cap on the ground casing after assembly, so I've been sticking hot glue between and being very careful. I'd definitely recommend paper wraps for anyone looking at this in the future.Have you been able to test your battery in your segway yet?

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 02:40:16 am
content: Put the battery together today, looks like despite my best efforts its still junk, I still just get a solid red light on the Segway, although I get the battery tone when I plug it in now. Any better luck with yours?

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 07:40:56 am
content: I have the same issue. Not sure what the problem is. I did check the cabling that goes in to the base of the handle bar, i guess that this part of the connections is ok on my segway, but i do not know how i can check the cables that go up into the handlebar.I'm also collecting some information here:https://pads.ccc-ch.ch/public_pad/Segway

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 08:07:08 am
content: Possibilities include:The BMS has detected that the cells have changed, and doesn't like itThe new cells are low-current types and the BMS detects they don't take charge at the expected rateDoesMartin Bogomolni's I2C battery diagnostics programwork with with your models? It supposedly supports NiMH.

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 11:16:41 am
content: I gave it a try today, with S i get an i2c error, with all other options it does just hang. First i did try it without the bridge between the two halfs of the pack, later i added the bridge as you can see in the photo.

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2020, 12:09:56 pm
content: I'd double check that the program is configured for NiMH (TYPE == 0x62), and if that still doesn't work, use a general I2C probing/enumeration program to poke the BMS ... plus check to make sure the line levels are sensible, e.g. nothing is holding the I2C lines low.

author: Urs42
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 11, 2020, 08:08:48 am
content: Nothing is holding the I2C lines low, but the i2c signals from the arduino do not look right, i need some time to look at this...

author: mjm4306
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 05:36:53 am
content: I didn't realize that batteries lighting up red in the segway meant that the BMS was fried, so my issue was rebuilding using a broken BMS. I was able to get 2 packs lighting up green but not holding a charge and resoldered my cells in them, everything now works great in one segway. The other segway I have still has a platform error, however it seems like it's unrelated to the batteries and I haven't been able to figure it out.