Better Than (Un)Helpful Hands - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 05:36:58 pm
content: Hello All,I just joined last night (because search finally failed me, lol) and couldn't be more impressed by the amount of responses I had to my question. It seems that there is a real and honest desire to share/help/collaborate around here so I'd like to also do my part (especially as a newbie).One of the most asked questions and frustrations, I believe, is about the so-called helpful hands. Although these are good for certain things (once teeth are filed down a bit and heatshrink is added as padding to the jaws), I certainly would never entertain recommending one of these devices for holding down a workpiece (such as almost any pcb).Here's what I do instead.These clamps are available at any woodworking mailorder type place (try rockler.com if you're in the US) and can be attached to any surface (mine sit on mdf). There are different types available, some have handles that fold down out of the way but I like these because they give you somewhere to brace your hand for those difficult to get to parts.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 07:09:28 pm
content: Now, that's what I call clamps for real men :-)PS: Hakko soldering station?

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 08:10:09 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on May 22, 2012, 07:09:28 pmActually, no. Its an X-Tronic 4000 series. This is the lab in my home office so nothing extravagant as far as gear (ok, there's a couple of cool toys I guess).

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 08:38:29 pm
content: Toggle clamps! I have dozens of them that I used in milling and welding fixtures I had thought about using the like that but never got around to bringing any home, I must make the effort one day.These are the people I buy them from, also have all sorts of other useful things.http://www.wdsltd.co.uk/products/standard-parts/toggle-clamps-and-accessories/

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 09:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on May 22, 2012, 08:38:29 pmI couldn't imagine using anything else (mostly) any longer. Do it and you won't regret it - no marring, no thermal transfer, solid and unobtrusive hold, you can mount or elevate them to whatever works for you... too many reasons.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 10:27:56 pm
content: Very nice. Never heard of these but now that I have, toggle clamps, will build a set to see how it works. Can't hurt.http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000224BJ/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003TPY6I0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0KHAY7GAP2CTSH8ZJN9DWhat do you think of just a Panavise Jr? It will cost about the same given the price of Amazon, for example, per clamp.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 10:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on May 22, 2012, 10:27:56 pmSometimes, I do use something similar to the Panavise (its the Bessey, found here:http://www.amazon.com/Bessey-BVVB-Vacuum-Base-Vise/dp/B0057PUR88/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1337725849&sr=1-1) and it works well enough but not for bigger and more unruly stuff. The toggle clamps are the way to go there.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2012, 11:51:36 pm
content: Great suggestion.Any antipodeans reading this thread and wishing to purchase something from an AU source could tryhttp://www.carbatec.com.au/toggle-clamps_c8560, the pricing seems reasonable.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 09:26:04 pm
content: Brought some toggle clamps home now. have to be careful with pressure setting they can exert a ton and a half of pressure. They are of course pretty well universal as jigs and fixture essentials in factory's and welding shops.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 09:57:36 pm
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on May 22, 2012, 11:51:36 pmThanks.Quote from: G7PSK on May 23, 2012, 09:26:04 pmCan't wait to hear how you like them. Just an fyi, I mount mine on 3/4" stock and "elevate" the clamps using additional blocks as needed. However, if you use something like 8/4 stock (something like a 2x4 end), you wont find yourself elevating them as often due to clearance (of pcb components) issues.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2014, 07:37:55 pm
content: Has anyone bought a set of these in the UK that they are using regularly. I want to give these a try but not sure which ones to choose. Thanks.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 01:45:45 am
content: i have one kind like that like a jig on the bench where it stand stiffly, unscrew clamp the pcb and screw to tighten, looks charming for the "real man" at first glance, but practically i only used it once or twice during my purchase long long time ago, now its collecting dust. what i usually reach until today is my cheapo there so called "unhelpfull hand for unreal men", can twist or any orientation a pcb or any object i like. now my unhelpfull hand has a better carpet where it stands on, the jig type one, the collecting dust one. so thats the the morning glory story.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 03:14:04 pm
content: i used to use helping hands but now I am a Panavise kind of guy. I have found some deals-a Panavise 301 with a 308 base for $20 and a 396 wide opening head with base for $30 both used but in great condition, all I needed to do was replace the jaws on the vise. I also received a 350 workcenter as a Christmas gift. No more helping hands here except when soldering 2 wires together, it still works fine for that.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:01:58 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 01, 2015, 03:14:04 pmPretty much my exact story!Sent from my Smartphone

author: WattsUp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:58:56 pm
content: They are £50 in the UK:http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bessey-BVVB-Vacuum-Base-Vise/dp/B00PUU8MQE/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1420131505&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=bessey+bvvb

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 06:53:11 pm
content: Timb, actually I was wrong, I have the 324 workstation. I use the base and base tray and just swap the head out depending on my needs. Everything sits on a shelf under the workbench to keep the workspace clean(er). The 301/308 combo I picked up at a ham radio tailgater party and the 396 was obtained at the central Florida geeks toy store-Skycraft. It's a great place to waste an hour or 2 when I am in Orlando covering for the tech there when he is on vacation.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 04:36:35 am
content: I got mine at RS on clearance for $5 year before last. It was the standard 301 (base and head). I then picked up the 312 tray mount and a 315 circuit board holder on Amazon for $20 and $25 respectively. So my combo makes it pretty much the same as the 324 workstation; only lacking the soldering iron holder, which I didn't need.I swap between the circuit board holder and standard head as needed. Oh, pro tip: Don't clean any of the parts with isopropyl alcohol... The paint melts right off!I'm keeping my eyes out for a 376 extra wide self centering head. I wouldn't mind a couple of Panavise Jr.'s either. (Two of them mounted on a small board would be the ultimate replacement for helping hands.)I actually just refurbished my old cheapass helping hands. I took all the extra BS off a long time ago, leaving just the alligator clips. Unfortunately they weren't crimped on very well and started falling off. Setting the Hakko to max temp and applying copious amounts of solder solved that problem. Then I filed the teeth on the jaws down and applied new heat shrink to them. It looks like some liquid flux or something got under the old heat shrink I had and had started to rust the inside of one clip. I sanded it best I could and applied DeoxIt Shield to prevent more damage. Works a lot better now! (I still use helping hands mainly for soldering two wires together; works great for that.)Sent from my Tablet

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 05:00:46 am
content: I like bean bags when I'm in a hurry (most of the time). I have some soft diving weights as well.I do use my Weller board spinner and Panavise as well.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 11:25:52 am
content: Quote from: timb on January 08, 2015, 04:36:35 amI can attest to that one.FWIW, I started with a 301 kit (300 base + 303 head), then added a 315 and 376 head. Base is mounted to a steel plate I bought as scrap (hit it with a $1.00 can of spray paint & stuck on some rubber feet I found on eBay).Quote from: timb on January 08, 2015, 04:36:35 amPerhaps cobble a couple of203 Jr head'son the end of someLoc-Line hose?

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 11:36:22 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 08, 2015, 11:25:52 amThat's s great idea! I've been looking for something like those Loc-Line hoses for literally years to make helping hands with. At one point I bought one of those GorillaPod camera tripod things with the intent of mounting it upside down to a platform and attaching alligator clips to the ends of the feet. It ended up being a far too useful tripod for my DSLR so I never actually sacrificed it. XDI might just try that PV Jr. + Loc-Line combo.Sent from my Tablet

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 11:50:59 am
content: Quote from: timb on January 08, 2015, 11:36:22 amGlad you like it.I'd been looking at making something out of Loc-Line and some hemostats, namely for tinning wire (like them better than alligator clips). Haven't gotten around to it though, as stuff always seems to come up and it gets put on the back burner and forgotten. Over and over...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 12:40:12 pm
content: Nanofrog, unless I am missing something, aren't hemostats just a little to harsh to hold wire for tinning? I use hemostats but locking them down on wire would put a pretty good crimp on the wire. I've adopted the filed teeth and heat shrink tubing on my helping hands and I think that it works just fine.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 12:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 08, 2015, 12:40:12 pmSolution #1Solution #2

author: okashira
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 04:35:16 pm
content: I like this thread. I absolutely despise my Chinese/amazon/whatever helping hands that everyone has.Mine are like 10+ years old too I was shocked to see such a crap design still for sale!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 06:43:59 pm
content: Quote from: okashira on January 08, 2015, 04:35:16 pmSimple explanation-there are enough buyers that are only concerned with price instead of total cost of ownership-how effective it does the job, how annoying it is to use, need of modifications to work to expectations. I admit that I have bought to a price and have put up with my mistakes. If it is not something I immediately need, I exercise patience and wait for the right deal to come along such as I did with the 2 used Panavise setups I mentioned in previous posts. Much easier to save up and spend wisely instead of firing off the wallet weapon without properly aiming

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 07:49:56 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 08, 2015, 12:40:12 pmI mean to use one of the modification ideasrobrentzcreated and shared with all of us.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 05:10:37 pm
content: By the way, here's my helping hands after the mod mentioned above:I really need to replace the heat shrink with silicon tubing, as I've already melted the new heat shrink.Sent from my Smartphone

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 05:14:16 pm
content: Uhhh that's not the right picture at all...and I can't edit the post! Brilliant new update Tapatalk! *Sighs*Sent from my Smartphone

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 05:15:16 pm
content: Ffffffff... Okay, I'll fix the post when I get home...Sent from my Smartphone

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2015, 09:30:00 pm
content: LOL you have no idea how many times I scanned the first post from today and then read back up through the rest of the thread trying to figure out how that photo had *anything* to do with the prior conversation

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 12:56:22 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 01, 2015, 05:14:16 pmPersonally, I like the photo of your lab assistant.Photo of leads on holder...Brain meltdown maybe?If so, don't feel bad as you're not alone. I pretty much get those on a daily basis.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 01:10:28 am
content: "In dog we trust" HiHi. ?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 01:38:06 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2015, 01:10:28 amHow about just a spare woofer lying around?

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 10:55:58 am
content: Those alligator clip things are so crap. They're horrible. Don't waste your money. Just get a couple of toggle clamps instead, or a small vise.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 11:07:50 am
content: I must be the weird one here but I have found my el-cheapo helping hands really good for doing Anderson connectors and the centre pins of coax connectors. Stuff where you need to hold something light and solder it, without draining too much heat away nor melting the plastic of the vise/clamp. I have filled the alligator clips with solder where it is clamped onto the frame to make it more rigid and smoothed the bearing surfaces (round ball and dimpled plate) where it rotates.It has a quite heavy base and holds stuff nice and close to the desk, much closer than my panavise.PS great dog by the way.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 12:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2015, 11:07:50 amEasier to customize the Loc-line solutions though, including keeping them from toppling over IMHO. Cost effective as well.FWIW Panavise makes solutions that will get the vise at or near the edge of the table, such as the311 clamp base,380 vacuum base,335 magnetic base, and the308 weighted base. Not cheap though, particularly outside of the US from what I've seen (worse than just swapping currency symbols in some places, such as Amazon's price on the 301 in the UK vs. the US; ~2.5x more expensive in the UK <not sure if VAT is applied or not>). It's worth 30USD, but 75USD is ludicrous IMHO.As per drawing too much heat, that's relatively easy to deal with (wood, leather, rubber, heat resistant plastics between the object and any metal <i.e. use as jaw faces>, and stainless steel if it must be metal to metal contact for example).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 12:46:55 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 02, 2015, 01:38:06 amI have 2 because you should have stereo

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2015, 01:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on February 02, 2015, 12:46:55 pmThen you've actually a quadrophonic system, as you can get stereo output from a single source.And don't forget about the added olfactory dimension from the rear output of each source (even when sound = rest).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 12:44:19 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 02, 2015, 01:29:52 pmOh yes, I do deal with source venting everyday, mostly only from 1 rear channel-the male.He can knock a buzzard off of a corpse wagon at 30 paces. The female channel is a bit of a princess and more discrete. On the plus side, the volume from the front channels is very impressive, easily exceeding 30 over S9 as we say on the ham bands.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 02:02:31 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on February 03, 2015, 12:44:19 pmTychem® garments (bunny suits) might be worth a look, unless you can convince your dog to pull a small wagon behind him containing a fume extraction system w/ a gas filter.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 06:23:48 pm
content: Charcoal tablets can knock it down a little. Wrap them in bacon...........

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2015, 08:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: WattsUp on January 01, 2015, 04:58:56 pmAs pointed out inhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/%28uk%29-mini-vice-at-aldi-from-5th-feb/msg600805/tomorrow (Thursday) there are £7 mini-vices at Aldihttps://www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/thur-5-feb/product-detail/ps/p/suction-vicetable-vice/

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 12:51:24 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on February 03, 2015, 06:23:48 pmBecause everything is better with bacon

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 05:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on February 04, 2015, 12:51:24 pm

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 06:13:01 pm
content: You do not need bacon with the 2 little hoovers, they catch in mid drop. They both are addicted to cheese, and love it, you cannot have cheese with them around without being gently reminded ( by a dog trying to climb your leg) to share.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:23:22 pm
content: We don't feed our 2 human food, unless it falls on the floor-they are fast. We do have plenty of Milk-Bones and Beggin' Strips for them. SWMBO used to also buy the Snausages until she found out that I like them too.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 07:42:16 pm
content: Had to look up Snausage on Google, and I see...... As my vet says, diabetes in a bag. Ingredients similar to paint, banned dye and who knows what else as well.

author: Boondock Journeyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2015, 08:18:26 pm
content: Robrenz,As a real life machinist I can see where you are going and I love it. I will be making some prototypes late today.The point of the following is a detailed description of using machinist stuff to position for precision soldering.Skip it if that sounds dumb to you.What I have been using as positioning parts for detailed solder work either under a cheapo magnifying glass on a flex arm or medium power stereo-microscope is my dial indicator stuff. I started with the obligatory Last Word 711 line of widgets and added the Universal Snugs #57S and 58S on just about any combination of rod stands. I have some 50 year old #657A's (or whatever the number was back then), and two #3657U clones that work great.The Sleeves #657R and 665L together with the combo rod thing #PT27171 are fantastic for support at a critical point that must be very small.Using a 24" x 36" x 1/4" thick steel base and about 12" x 18" of ESD mat cut from BER1-23BKT, I can position all the supports around the outside and work on the mat. Non-magnetic bases are available everywhere so if you don't want magnets in your ESD environment, you can easily get rid of them. I only use the steel and magnets because I need them for my machine setup and layout station. If I where starting form zero, I would never use the mag bases.To start looking at this stuff get Starrett's "Precision Tools" catalog # 33 at:http://content.yudu.com/A290vg/StarrettCatalog32B/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http://www.starrett.com/catalogs. Under options (far left top of page) the drop down window allows you to save for offline work.Look at pages 133-143 and 177-182 to learn the product vocabularies. Then go to EBay and try the vocabulary. Try not to buy Starrett. The clone parts are all there for 1/10th the cost. I have had great luck with the Chinese vendors and terrible luck with the Hong Kong vendors (long delivery).Nice work,Boondock

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2015, 07:17:55 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 02, 2015, 12:56:22 amNo, for some reason the forum app isn't attaching the correct pictures to the posts. Or letting me edit. I filed a bug report hopefully it gets fixed soon.I completely forgot to go back and edit the post. I'll add it to my list for the morning!Sent from my Tablet

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2015, 07:19:10 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 02, 2015, 01:10:28 amDog with an EEVBlog!Sent from my Tablet