Cant decide on a Keysight Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: abobbie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pm
content: I'm looking to get my first oscilloscope and I can't decide between the following 3 options. I'm mainly planning on working on i2c, spi, Rs232 and maybe usb 1.1 if I need to debug issues.There's the EDUX1052A which is limited to 50Mhz and I found one nearby for $650Then there's the DSOX1102A for $450 and has the 70Mhz optionOr there's the EDUX1002A for $350 with the 50Mhz optionI know that for USB 1.1 I'd need at least 60Mhz (12Mhz x5) but the DSOX1102A can be upgraded with a purchase of the DSOX1B7T10 100MHz upgrade.the EDUX line doesn't seem to offer Option configuration to allow for increasing the bandwidth after purchase without modification and that's out of the question for what would be my only oscilloscope.are there any other ~600 Keysight scopes that are worth getting as a first oscilloscope that I'm missing?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 06:07:17 pm
content: Why do you want a Keysight?

author: abobbie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 06:18:35 pm
content: Because all my other electronic test equipment currently is either Agilent, Hewlett Packard, or Fluke I haven't had any issues with them. I'd rather continue to stay in those ecosystems and avoid purchasing a brand that I'm not familiar with.Keysight seems to be taking the Microsoft / Cisco approach and making their equipment available to universities in the hopes of students selecting them when they begin outfitting their own labs or refreshing their equipment so that makes them my default choice.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 06:28:26 pm
content: Keysight doesn't support non-business customers, and they certainly don't support obsolete products.There's a wealth of knowledge on this website, and there's certainly better options for you in that price range.I recommend comparing any of those 3 models to this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293741/#msg5293741

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 06:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 06:18:35 pmDon’t fall into that trap.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 07:17:47 pm
content: Do you intend to stay official? You could extend 1002a or 1052a to 70MHz with a simple resistor mod.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 07:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 06:18:35 pmFirst thing is that "staying with the ecosystem" is misguided thinking.You would want to actually try out and be competent using many different brands of equipment.When you join some company you will have to use whatever they have there..Second is that "premium manufacturers" are making horrible entry level equipment. They do charge premium for because of "Big Brand".Naive people think that means something positive, like you paid more but there is added value. There is not. Actually those big brands are very carefully try to give those entry level instruments as little capability as possible. Just educate yourself.To cut it short, for less than 600 USD you can get superior, very modern, 200 MHZ platform, 2GS/s, 12 bit, touchscreen very advanced oscilloscope with better free support than Keysight gives. Or you can also get one that is also 12bit, less capable but still better than Keysight 1000EDU, with support that is not very good but still not worse than nothing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 07:42:57 pm
content: Have you got a business account with them?Keysight doesn't sell to the general public. Find out if you can even buy one before worrying about models.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 07:45:57 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pmNo.Everybody here uses Rigol/Siglent. You can get a 4 channel model for well under 600 and all of them are hackable to the highest model in the range.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 08:04:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 19, 2025, 07:45:57 pmNot everybody... Not by a long shot. Where it comes to oscilloscopes, there is a lot more out there to choose from.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 08:38:32 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 19, 2025, 08:04:08 pmMaybe I should have said "in that price bracket".

author: abobbie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 19, 2025, 06:28:26 pmI'm not interested in Siglent or Rigol.Quote from: Bud on July 19, 2025, 07:17:47 pmI'm getting conflicting information about this part from what I've read. Can the 1102A be upgraded with a license or firmware upgrade to 100 or 200Mhz? the jump from 50-70 doesn't seem worth voiding the calibration and support agreement.Quote from: Fungus on July 19, 2025, 07:42:57 pmI have an account with Keysight that's been activated / approved.Quote from: Fungus on July 19, 2025, 07:45:57 pmAre there any brands that you'd recommend outside of Rohde & Schwarz? the Flukes that I've seen are quite expensive and I have no familiarity with B&K.

author: abobbie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 19, 2025, 07:33:00 pmWhat model? I'd love to take a look at that

author: MarkusAJ
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pmBased on your post, I suggest getting Analog Discovery 3 which is more than only an oscilloscope, you should check what this instrument offers before you spend $$$ on fancy scope.Over the time you will learn what you really need.FYI: 2 days ago, I received adverting email from Digilent (the AD3 maker) about 20 (or 25) percent discount in the 07/21/2025 - 07/25/2025 time frame, if you are a student you may get additional discount. In my opinion it is worth to consider...Edited: Many experienced EEs are keeping this instrument as a "Swiss Army knife" in their arsenal.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 09:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 09:12:49 pmYour loss. The Keysight badge doesn't inherently make a scope better than anything, and in that price range it works against you.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 09:12:49 pmYou do not need to guess, just read the datasheet.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 09:12:49 pmThere is also Micsig. And the Batronix Magnova oscilloscopes look very promising.Still, the R&S RTB2004 would be my choice for an entry level oscilloscope for microcontroller development (involving protocol decoding). IMHO you should be looking at getting an oscilloscope with at least 4 channels if you are (getting) into microcontroller development. And preferably the possibility to have or add digital channels as well; very nice if you decide to venture into developing FPGAs. The Keysight models you list don't have that and their memory is super tiny. Typically you can only use 1/4th of the memory depth of a Keysight scope in common usage scenarios.But you'll need to stretch your budget a bit or find a good deal on the used market. I have had some good success buying near mint test equipment from test equipment dealers at a nicer price.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 10:33:20 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 09:16:29 pmSiglent SDS800xHD

author: MarkusAJ
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 11:34:40 pm
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pmUsing AD (1,2,3) you can talk RS232 bidirectional (host <-> AD).Debugging USB is much more productive using Wireshark with Linux PC (or even Windows crap, or Mac crap) than scope, are you planning trace it bit after bit? If you want out of box solution with a scope it will come pricey.link:https://www.wireshark.org/download.htmlWhy the scope bandwidth is so important in your case?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2025, 01:36:28 am
content: Of course Keysight is absolutely less interested in having to pay people to support their low-end products. Why have an engineer talk to a customer who only paid Keysight $500 when you can have the same engineer talk to a customer who paid them $500,000? So it's logical that Keysight is trying to avoid the first case where possible and that is why they are plastering the language all over the place about not supporting home users, hobbyists, etc. But at least here in the US it's easy to buy things from them as a home user. As I mentioned in another thread, just make up a company name. They literally don't care.However, Keysight generally is still somewhat interested in the educational space, so if you can purchase via an educational sales rep and get a discount, that be a better path.You can also stalk the Keysight Used web store for some deals that sometimes come up:https://www.keysight.com/used/us/en/I recently grabbed an EDUX1002G there for $350 delivered, mostly out of morbid curiosity but also because I found the responsiveness of the Rigol DHO800 series to be frustrating. (The Rigol was supposed to be my "I don't care if I break it" scope.) I like having the generator. To be clear, the EDUX1002G is an old model scope and there is just no way to compare it to the modern scopes. It is what it is. But as a point of discussion, plenty of people still like their old HP 34401A despite the essentially horrible interface compared to modern stuff. Also, sometimes it's hard to articulate why you like something.If you're 100% set on Keysight and you could get the EDUX1052G at a good price via an education discount, I'd probably lean that direction. Having the generator could be useful.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 04:01:10 am
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pmFirst of all you need to look at DSOX1204Gand not at older series DSOX1102A (they are only 50k wfm/s)Despite being 8 bit only older design non edu series is amongst fastest 200k wfm/s scopes (I do not mean on paper) on that price level considering new ones.More bandwidth is expensive (but I used one upgraded from 70 to 200 MHz in the past so it was possible) and then you have other options of faster wfm/s usually...Still they are pretty reliable.EDU series is slower and I never tested it "unlocked" so cannot say on this part.Despite from what some may say for basic things one may want 12 bits but they are not necessary for strong signals. With small amplitute ones and low noise this is where they excel. They are also faster processing usually that 8 bit older brothers.I am still confident that my old Rigol 1054Z is more than enough for most needs and I can tell you that my new Siglent SDS814X HD is way nicer/faster in many aspects but I kinda got used to Rigols menu hehe. Both of them, they are more user friendly than that Keysight series (but to be objective this is a very decent scope just older vision of things lets call it). Of course nowadays purchasing a scope I would rather get 12 than 8 bits.Their main advantage is that you pay much less.Main questions about protols are:- is it enough for you just to see that you missed a bit?- is this enough that you see that bits are overlapping one another (I mean to see big/frequently repeating problems like bit started too late, etc)?If so any 2GS/s and 100-200 MHz scope will do nice for you or some digital protocol analyzer.- if you wanna see some small tiny needle then you plug in some faster scope like 4-5GS/s in single channel mode (to have as much points from signal as possible) much higher bandwidth (depending from your budget), and most importantly as much wfm/s as possible to see that problem fast and not after long long time of wathing seemingly proper signal (but it hangs...).Then if you really wanna some nice analysis scope you may like to collect and get some Keysight 3000 model offer with 1 mln wfm/s but they tend to be pricey...Or get some 2000/3000x HD Siglent series.Keysight is not very friendly for non business users nowadays that is main problem. If you really wanna Keysight and can wait a bit - It maybe worth it cause they need to release something never than 1200G series perhaps next year or 2027. I would try sds814x hd or 824x hd if you have a shop nearby or know someone having it.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 04:14:59 pm
content: The service manuals of all the old HP equipment (and most other brands) is freely available. and it has a wealth of information for anyone wanting to learn circuit design. Some parts of those meters are also described in TaoE. And it makes these meters easy to repair (as long as it's not one of the custom IC's that is broken).A bunch of years ago Dave had an interview with someone from keysigh and that guy gave some reasons for not making service manuals available for the newer stuff anymore. I think it was something like "No user serviceable parts inside", and this smells like the excrement of a male cow. If there were "no user serviceable parts inside", there would also be no objection to release the service manual, it just would have a lot of "non replaceable parts" marks. There is plenty of analog stuff that can break and would be perfectly repairable, and the real reason probably is the same as always: Marketing figured out they can make more money this way for less effort.Unfortunately they're not alone in this. Does any manufacturer of modern test equipment still release service manuals with schematics?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 05:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: MarkusAJ on July 19, 2025, 11:34:40 pmThis has been bugging me for a while - why none of "B brands" have USB decoding available? Software decoders are crap, but hardware ones are super-expensive for some reason. Yet mid-range A brand scopes ones have this option.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2025, 05:10:40 pm
content: it's now buy, try or use, and dump ...even if you would try to repair new stuff, they mostly sell complete pcb's, no separate parts ... IF they want to do so ...and when they do, the price for them, are near the cost of a brand new unit ...

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 12:00:16 am
content: For debugging USB, a Logic Analyser is a much better tool.I once did some tests with Sigrok / Pulseview, and the ubiquitous EUR 10 LA hardware, and successfully decoded low-speed USB. Pulseview shows an amazing amount of info, from T-states and checksums to different packets type, addressing, where data is and much more. Sampling of this EUR 10 hardware is too low for higher speed USB, but something like a Kingst LA2016 (200Msps, also works with Pulseview) should do perfectly fine.I do have a Siglent SDS1104X-E scope, and it has some logic analyser functions and especially for things like I2C it's nice to see the real signals, but overall a PC with Pulseview is a much better user experience for Logic analyser use.Bigger, higher resolution screenZooming scrolling with the mouse works better then with the knobs on the scope.Text entry (labels and such) with a normal keyboard.Easy data save, recall, multiple screens.So overall, I first verify with my scope whether signal levels are proper, and use the LA for testing / decoding logic stuff.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 03:43:15 am
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on July 21, 2025, 04:01:10 amEDU is the same hardware as the respective DSOX model, with some parts unpopulated. In fact it has the same PCB. When modded, it exceeds in features the stock DSOX and is the best bang for the buck ever.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 03:47:02 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on July 21, 2025, 04:14:59 pmsometimes they do but not often and usually if so they rlease for two generations back or somethingProblem is that with nowadays software and x-ray we are able to do pretty fast reverse engineeringIn the past it was lot more time necessary for that.Nowadays you see chips, download application notes and by lazyness, comfort of using something proven or speed of making product most is following those notes so you just place the puzzles in place then what is usually problematic is some firmware protectionAlso sometimes even looking at how some part of device was made by competition can greatly help overcome troubles at hand pointing smart head in right direction xDBut they usually do not give service manuals cause competition would be able to catch up way to fastAnother important reason is partially what that guy told you -> in most cases with complex metrology equipment we are simply unable to get proper equipment and references to properly cal and evaluate some more complex things - we can go close enough for our needs but most of us is unable to have some fancy things or could afford like one of such fancy things.Example: I could perhaps get some super accurate resistance standards but other than for cal or check of meter from time to time it is better to spend those (few k$ at least) on some good soldering equipment, some better scope or even a decent 6-7 digits DMM cause that stuff you will use frequently or more often that such standards...So I got some years ago small number of reasonably stable precision resistors for 50-80 USD and measured them with such luxury LCR at university, written on each exact value and... they usually are staying at friends company cause I need em perhaps two times per year and he makes way better use of them on production line equipment periodic tests to tell if he needs to send them to cal or not or in case of doubt.Ask yourself this - with all documentation available for revered HP 8 digits DMM and many decades passed since its release nobody made a new version.Why? Perhaps it is as good as we need for now and new design waits in a drawer for better days. Or tricks implemented then are stil giving a good headache for next gen designers. Or cost of making it would be enormous.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 03:48:51 am
content: Quote from: Bud on July 22, 2025, 03:43:15 ambut can it be unlocked with reasonable cost/work amount to level of 200 MHz and 200k wfm/s speed?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 08:44:36 am
content: Quote from: abobbie on July 19, 2025, 05:40:19 pmA scope is an analogue domain instrument, so use that to ensure signal integrity, i.e. voltage and timing limits are observed. If you know signal integrity is OK, then you don't need a scope.Once signal integrity is assured, you will be operating in the digital domain looking at messages. So flip to using a digital domain tool for that, e.g. a logic analyser, a protocol analyser or printf().Simple LAs and PAs are remarkably cheap compared to scopes, and can do things scopes can't do. Look for ones that don't start capturing until a specific combination of inputs or message is received.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2025, 04:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on July 22, 2025, 03:48:51 amFor 200MHZ it is required to replace several parts in the input section ( cost is very reasonable, parts available). Firmware update effort is close to none, just run a update from the GUI from a USB stick.Edit: you do need SMT soldering skills for the hardware update part.