How to keep your guts    ie Ebay seller gets ripped off - scope gets ripped out - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 04:27:53 pm
content: This is a quote:"I got burnt by an ebay buyer who bought a great, 100% working scope from me. He then claimed it was out of cal, and then shipped it back to me. But, before he did, he swapped out the main processor board for a non-functional one and sent me back a useless dead scope....and ebay gave him his money back! "from this adhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-TDS-5054-in-MINT-Condition-4-Channel-500-MHz-5-GS-s-with-Math-Software-/141669437299?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fc280f73&nma=true&si=wFlkRcED9goQNAzBut6j4rIiN14%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Sad to see this kinda thing going on. What would or could you do to keep this from happening (other than say no returns). Now I can see why sellers say this. I thought it was so the seller could rip someone off, now I see that buyers rip off seller. So has anyone figured out how to protect your "sale" other than say "no returns" ?I have nothing to do with the seller nor can I afford this type of equipment, just curious.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 04:39:45 pm
content: There is virtually nothing you can do, because eBay will always side with the buyer if they return it. Frankly, he's lucky he got the scope back, and not a pile of bricks. As long as something is sent back within a reasonable weight range, the seller can do nothing, it doesn't matter if they have serial numbers or evidence of tampering, eBay just does not care.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 04:40:28 pm
content: you just said the answer: no returns. all items sold as-is.you may not get as many bites or sales but at least you don't have to worry about this.this kind of thing is exactly why I stopped selling personal items on ebay about 10 yrs ago. when it was a smaller internet and less crazy, things were a bit more sane; but now its not trustable (overall) and unless you can afford to take an occasional loss, it does not look like its safe enough for private sellers doing garage sale style selling.I wonder if escrow services might be the answer. they add cost, but at this point, sellers and buyers cannot be implicitly trusted; both need some 3rd party to referee and that is just NOT ebay or paypal anymore!so, if I ever do go back to selling my spare gear, I'll take many photos of the unit working, insure it well during shipping (never allow a buyer to decline insurance; its not good for you to be stuck like that) and mark it as 'no returns allowed'. it sucks to have to be that way but I see no other way to protect yourself; if you cannot afford to take even one loss, which is how many of us would be if we sold our gear on fleabay, these days.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 04:54:08 pm
content: Getting cheated by a E-bay buyer was always a risk a seller had to accept or not sell on E-bay. Made worst some years back when E-bay changed the feedback process/rules. I sold some repaired vintage 70s hi-fi gear back when, never cheated by a seller but lots of worry on every step of the process.I feel E-bay made a business decision to place most/best protections for buyers Vs sellers to keep the volume and growth of their business continuing. I guess they made the right decision from their point of view, but I don't think I will ever list anything of value again on E-bay. I do love buying stuff on E-bay and will most likely continue buying stuff I don't really need.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 05:09:11 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 05, 2015, 04:27:53 pmI think the seller didn't follow or understand the return procedure. Before a refund can be made the return must be processed (received and checked). If it turns out the buyer returned a different item I'm sure Ebay has provisions to deal with this. If the seller didn't respond in a comprehensible and factual way then the people at Ebay can't understand the information provided by the seller and will refund the buyer.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 05:12:54 pm
content: What does this thread have to do with test equipment? Should this not be in the General section?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 05:27:53 pm
content: QuoteThe seller could try, anecdotally ebay will not do much.The difficulty is proof, there is essentially nothing that the seller can do to unambiguously prove the buyer scammed him.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 05:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on July 05, 2015, 04:40:28 pmThis is not the answer. And actually pretty useless. Buyer says - not as described and your "no returns. all items sold as-is" is worth a rat's ass.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 09:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 05, 2015, 04:39:45 pmBS!MOST likely the seller didn't even try to contest the buyer's claim! I sold a probe for over $600 on Ebay and the seller pulled almost the same stunt. He complained to E-bay that the probe didn't work and then posted pictures of the unit broken open and burnt components inside. (It was a SEALED unit.) First, I pointed out that the unit that he showed in his photos was full of scuffs and wear, whereas the pictures from my listing showed that my unit was clean and unused. Second, I pointed out that he had not opened a sealed item but that he had smashed the case to do so. And that NO ONE would warranty an item of any sort that had been taken apart! It's not hard to imagine what had happened, he had burned up his own probe and opened it up and found the damage so he bought mine and then tried to claim that his old one was the one that I'd sent him! E-bay immediately sided with me and I never heard another word about it! I'm no lover of E-bay and their excessive fees but I can say that they're always treated me fairly (at least according to their rules).I know a lot of ham fest sellers and many of them used to sell on Ebay and many of them also claim that E-bay screwed them on deals such as this. But in EVERY case, when I question them closer I find that they didn'tbotherto take the time to state their case to E-bay so E-bay automatically sided with the buyer.Frankly as a seller, I always post GOOD pictures and write anhonestdescription of the item and with explicit detail what I do know about itandwhat I DON'T know about it so that I can avoid any question about the item's condition. And not just to the seller but also to E-bay if any question should arise. I've been on E-bay since about 1996 and have completedthousandsof transactions both selling and buying and have only been ripped off twice and only had that one buyer try to get his money back. SO FAR! (Knocking on wood!)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 09:27:08 pm
content: From what I heard Amazon wont even ask the seller whats up, just straight up refund the money, few complains and they freeze your account.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 09:44:30 pm
content: Brownells (a major supplier of gunsmithing tools) has a policy that says if they get two legitimate complaints about a product that they will stop carrying it. Needless to say, they are VERY good to deal with and I've been pleased with everything that I've ever bought from them.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2015, 10:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 05, 2015, 09:27:08 pmI've heard the same thing.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 01:13:50 am
content: QuoteWell I saw the subject was a Tek scope that had its guts changed out.What I thought about was using "seals" or sealing wax, paint, or something to prove that the equipment had been opened by a buyer. I just never thought about buyer doing this kind of stuff. At least I understand now why so many "no refunds".A few years ago, I asked a crook why he ripped people off. His answer was "to survive". I never got it.I just wished ebay had "hand cutters" on staff. Then if a crook ripped someone off, they could send the person who got ripped off a hand in the mail. I know skulls have value ($250 in the 90s) but that is probably going to far. I would set the hand outside and let the ants do their thing and then list the hand on ebay. What comes around should go around. But with ebay crooks will continue to rip people off so they can "survive".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 02:26:05 am
content: I make it clear in the ad, private sale, sold as-is. With the no return policy set on the ad.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 02:58:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 06, 2015, 02:26:05 amTektronix might be able to help as each Scope has all S/N's of all board / chassis registered. There is a lot of "Tek" fiddling going on eBay with a lot of "mix and match" scopes being sold where the scope is put together from different parts.ebay rules:If you listed it as "Used" and product turns up at the buyers in a non-working condition - you can still be liable for refund. To make certain you don't need to refund - the only marking that works is "For parts"Quote from: eBayQuote from: eBayQuote from: eBay

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 03:35:00 am
content: I've noticed recently a lot more sellers offering local pickup only and no option on postage or shipping and I think that under the rules all bets are off in regards to claims or refunds when the items are picked up directly from the seller.Even though you restrict your market this I feel is a better option for selling more expensive items in addition to meeting the buyer and potentially getting rid of some other stuff without incurring additional fees and it works both ways.And a note, If you buy for instance an item though Ebay US then any claims must be made via the same path, Ebay AU will not assist whatsoever but Paypal can work globally regardless, this I know from recent experience.Muttley

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 07:47:51 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 06, 2015, 02:58:53 amThis won't make anything certain. Buyer can still file SNAD and still can return it. Simply because even if it is for parts, it still may not match description. Like some parts missing or have been crushed during shipping.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 08:29:41 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 05, 2015, 05:58:07 pmI always take pictures of every step of the packing process plus one final picture of the parcel sitting on the scales at the post office with PO stamps/stickers on it and recipient name/address clearly visible. If you were really paranoid you could probably video the packing process.I've never needed them (touch wood) but I hope it would be worth something if a buyer tried a "didn't receive the item shown in the photos" stunt.I'm also very, very honest about every single defect in the listing, with close-up pictures of every single scratch and dent. It's all evidence for what was actually sent and nobody can complain that you tried to rip them off if all the defects are spelled out.But yeah, "no returns" policy every time. Sold as-is. Caveat emptor.Plus I would never sell items that attract scumbags. eg. You'd have to be an idiot to try and sell a used iPhone on ebay IMHO. The chances of being ripped off by somebody who just dropped theirs in the toilet and feel they 'deserve' a new one for free are just too high.At the end of the day though, you take your chances. Choose between a non-zero chance of being ripped off or having the thing sat in a cupboard for then next 20 years. That's life.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 08:32:21 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 06, 2015, 07:47:51 amIndeed - you see some sellers repeatedly listing "for parts" but putting "works fine" in the description. I think they believe this exonerates them from having to accept a return. I'm not so sure although I tend to avoid such listings unless the price is such I don't care what state it arrives in because one thing is certain and that is that there will be an argument about any return.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 08:45:56 am
content: I got burnt in a similar way on Polish auction site. I have sold a very high end propane injector assembly from my old car which was going to be scrapped. It was fully functional and in good shape. The buyer claimed that two of the solenoid coils were burnt and he filed a dispute. I am 100% sure he just swapped the coils with his unit, and but had no way to prove it (nor can I think of one)Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 10:55:27 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 06, 2015, 02:58:53 amHeh. This is how I got a fully working keithley 2000, agilent 34401a, and agilent E7495 for cheap, all sold 'untested for parts' and worked fine. I am sure the seller just didn't want to deal with returns or figure out how to test things so lists things as for parts. Can sniff out these ads, where it is clear that the seller actually didn't know how to test it or it looked broken because they didn't know how it was supposed to work vs tested it and it didnt work thus is selling for parts.John

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 12:41:34 pm
content: Quote from: jwm_ on July 06, 2015, 10:55:27 amSame here. One particular E-bay seller that I know gets stuff from a US Government contractor and sells it on E-bay. Most of the stuff has been only used in labs and has been kept under a maintenance contract with the original manufacture and is fully calibrated. But the seller is too lazy to test any of it so he sells everything "parts or repair only" and "as-is" so most of his stuff goes CHEAP! <Oops! delete big hunk of an unrelated message that got in here by accident> My last two purchases were two very desirable HP 5 1/2 digit meters that I bought were fully calibrated and are dead nuts accurate and in near perfect condition and I only paid about $30 each for them. I have gotten a few things that did work but they were still worth the price that I paid for them just for parts. There are a lot of bargains on E-bay, you just need to read the listing closely and ask questions if necessary and most importantly, use your brain and some common sense!

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 12:46:42 pm
content: I would never con an ebay seller, it just is not worth it, if you pay and get what you paid for then it turns out plainly dodgy I should of paid more attention to the sale. I only neg if I dont get the item or it is plainly not as described and provable.Sadly such things as keithley bench meters or other quality items are rare to get here at decent prices, the UK and it's sellers seem to think they are selling gold bricks at over inflated prices.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 03:29:40 pm
content: It'sextremelyunfortunate that E-bay does not allow sellers to enter negative feedback against buyers. If they did then they could weed out those buyers that are ripping the sellers off by parts swapping and everyone would be a lot happier with E-bay. Except for their high fees and the extortion like forced use of PayPal, E-bay is a great place to make some money off of excess items and/or to find stuff that you want. I've set up automatic searches and found items that I've looked for for YEARS and no other chance of finding.To you other E-bay sellers, if you're worried about someone gutting an item after they buy it then do what businesses do. Put seals on the covers and access screws. I've even used those address return labels that some companies sent to you when they're trying to get you to make a donation. You can use unusual tape or anything unique that the buyer is unlikely to be able to replace. Or seal them glue that breaks if they try to remove the screws. They even make special sealant glue that only shows up under UV light so that the buyer doesn't know that it's there. But there's no reason that you couldn't use unusual colors of nail polish or model paint or something like that. Once they see that, most people give up and won't go the to trouble to find the identical seal or sealant.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 03:39:55 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 06, 2015, 03:29:40 pmNegative feedback against buyers doesn't really work because there are only limited ways to prevent people from buying from you.Youcanreport buyers and sellers should do so. If you feel you are being scammed by a buyer you can also make sure it is escalated - as I said there might not be all that much chance of a resolution but ebay are supposed to monitor buyers for serial problems and ban them if it looks like they are routinely claiming from sellers.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 04:30:05 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 06, 2015, 03:29:40 pmGood idea. I just looked on eBay and they actually sell tamper-evident stickers/tape, tada!Some of them even have unique serial numbers, eg.:http://www.ebay.com/itm/290564495221

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 05:26:05 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 06, 2015, 04:30:05 pmInteresting - do you have any experience of disputing with eBay based on the tape seal?I've bought and sold on eBay a lot since 1999. I've gotten screwed maybe 0.5 to 1% of the time. I can accept that rate (most people are honest!).In any deal there's risk - either side can cheat. eBay has decided to put the risk on the seller. So be it. If you want to move the risk to the buyer, list it as "for parts or not working".But that'll affect the price you get. Which is only fair, since the buyer is now taking the risk.I don't blame eBay - somebody has to take the risk, this way expectations are clear.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2015, 10:19:45 pm
content: Quote from: Dave92F1 on July 06, 2015, 05:26:05 pmI have successfully disputed a buyer on Ebay. But it wasn't based on tape or seals, just a single good quality photo of the item. I would think that disputing based on a broken seal would be even easier but I would take photos of the item with the seals before shipping and preferable before even listing it. I think that seeing the seals would probably deter any scam artist from even buying it.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 07:38:23 pm
content: QuoteQuoteThis is the kinda thing I was looking for when I started this. I think by clearly showing these labels in photos a scam artist would know the seller is aware of his kind. Good insurance for 10 cents. BUT there have been posts here on how to remove seals on DS-1054s to replace the fans.I think by showing the seals and maybe some fingernail polish on a few screws, it would show a scam artist that you would not be a push over when you say that it is in working condition.Other than saying "No Returns" keep them ideas comingthanks

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 07:57:14 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 06, 2015, 10:19:45 pmI'd make sure the seal is easily visible in at least one listing photo.Quote from: ez24 on July 07, 2015, 07:38:23 pmSure, but would you bet on it working 100% if you were planning to rip somebody off?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2015, 08:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 06, 2015, 03:29:40 pmI guess you haven't been using eBay for very long. They used to allow sellers to leave negative feedback, and what happened was that sellers would retaliate against buyers who left negative feedback or returned an item. The change in policy was 100% due to feedback abuse by sellers.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 04:08:13 pm
content: I guess that you can't read. I already said that I've been on E-bay since about 1996. I joined Ebay before they even had a feed back system and yes I've seen retaliatory feedback and other abuses but it wasn't as one sided as today's feedback system. As a matter of fact, when I joined Ebay they'd pay you to join! OK now go back and finish your nap, you're getting cranky!

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 04:23:38 pm
content: Sucks for honest sellers, a friend of mine makes his full time living selling on Ebay. So he tells me of all the ways sellers get screwed. But at the end of the day. It's a buyer's platform and it makes sense why it is the way it is today, everyone wants more buyers on Ebay. So Buyers get a license to be dicks if they want. Personally I buy tons of stuff on Ebay and I love it as a buyer. I've sold a few things here or there and knock on wood haven't had issues.As a seller Ebay gets you free exposure and like my friend you can make a living doing it, so it's not too bad, you just have to take the good with the bad. You have to factor in the percentage of scammy buyers in your price in order to ensure you make a profit.If you do a lot of selling, it's good to grow your brand. Then you can create your own ecommerce website and avoid the ebay hassle. Ebay is free advertisement.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 07:22:45 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on July 07, 2015, 08:26:29 pmThat's not why they changed it. "seller feedback abuse" happened, but it wasn't rampant and it certainly wan't a problem that needed handled. In fact, most sellers would leave feedback before the buyers would.The reason eBay removed sellers ability to leave feedback is that they wanted to transition from being an auction marketplace to a general marketplace more like Amazon. That's also why they implemented the "Buy-It-Now" feature. Feedback ceased to become a method to rate buyers and sellers trustworthiness and instead became the same type of rating system that Amazon and Google have for sellers.It was nothing to do with sellers abusing feedback - but rather eBay being greedy and not really caring too much about sellers. They have always believed the buyers are what matter. If the buyers are there, the sellers will come. And those that don't like it can leave (eBay's view).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 11:50:35 am
content: Quote from: edavid on July 07, 2015, 08:26:29 pmThey could have changed it so that sellers could only leave feedbackbeforethe buyers.OTOH buyer feedback doesn't mean much. Abusive buyers don't have much investment in their profiles, they can create new accounts with impunity.Quote from: Corporate666 on July 08, 2015, 07:22:45 pmA truly useful feature would be for sellers to set a minimum buyer feedback for bids, ie. buyers must have a good rating to be able to bid on an auction and/or have spent a minimum amount on eBay auction items to qualify for bidding on more expensive items (buying a dozen $1 'buy-it-now' items doesn't count).Before the pedants rush to protest, what I'm saying is that a better systemhasto be possible, not that what's written in those two lines is a complete/final system. Use your imaginations.eg. You could restrict this function to infrequent sellers. People who shift dozens of items a week don't suffer as badly when something goes wrong as people who only sell a few expensive/cherished items per year.Maybe you could restrict it to people who buy more than they sell - good buyers are less likely to be rip-off sellers.etc.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 08:21:11 pm
content: Ebay doesn't allow negative feedback against buyers because it doesn't really make much sense.A seller can't look at the feedback of people that win their auctions and refuse to sell, if you ban a buyer, they just create a new account or run with it, bad feedback has no consequences for buyers.Also, for all these bad buying things mentioned, feedback isn't the right answer anyway, a fraud ticket is. feedback is not the place to report scams, in fact, that is what the bulk sellers do to pad their income, just don't send out like 2% and hope the people leave bad feedback (where a drop to 98% positive means nothing) rather than opening a fraud ticket which actually has consequences.Also, as a buyer who encountered the feedback extortion sellers before, it was somewhat annoying. They will say that if you don't use the more expensive shipping option or return the item they will leave you bad feedback and ruin your rating.Now, what annoys me is the mandetory feedback comment, because it means comments are useless. I'd rather read the few where someone felt there was actually worth something saying but the A+++ ones drown them out.truth of the matter is, scam sellers way outnumber scam buyers so they error on that side by default. It appears to be unfairly biased towards buyers, but when you take into account the conditional probability of who is scamming who, it makes more sense. In any case, it sucks to be on the other end of a fraud buyer or seller and no policy can change that.Speaking of ebay issues, I just recieved ten boards with mini usb connectors soldered on when they promised micro connectors.... time to contact the seller...

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 09:26:51 pm
content: Buyer feedback is useful as a seller when choosing whether you want to accept a "best offer".I look at the age of the account, their purchase frequency, which types of items they purchase, etc. Sometimes it is worth letting an expensive item go for a bit cheaper, if you believe the buyer to be one with whom a transaction is less likely to result in headache.I use best offer as a way to filter buyers- set a high buy-it-now and then wait for the right buyer.

author: soren
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 09:43:04 pm
content: As a mostly-buyer, I don't know on which end fraud is more common, but I don't really consider it a problem. I've never been sent a brick and the rate of serious and intentional misrepresentation is about 1%.Damage during shipping due to inadequate packing, however, is much, much more common. I would like to be able to filter out careless shippers, but the tiny dynamic range of eBay's feedback system doesn't allow for that.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2015, 11:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: jwm_ on July 09, 2015, 08:21:11 pmIt does have consequences if you use the same account for both selling and buying. I guess that was more common in the past.QuoteHow does a buyer open a fraud ticket?

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 05:54:05 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 08, 2015, 07:22:45 pmI have been on eBay since '98 - and most seller do NOT leave feedback before buyers does. I would say 60% of sellers do not leave feedback before buyer has left feedback - and that percentage has not really changed.eBay can be a pain for buyers as well. I had a seller mis-advertise a product. I got it and found out. Seller was very un-responsive. I requested return and after 2 weeks and a few eBay support call's it got approved. I got the address from eBay - but sellers eBay address was not correct so seller avoided shipment company calls and delivery attempts for weeks until I again spent 2 hours on the phone with eBay walking them through the history. Then eBay got seller to respond but still took another week for shipment to get to him. Then Seller did not refund - and eBay got back and said "took to long - sorry no refund" - and then after another 1 hour on the phone with eBay going through the history again - I got my refund. Total time from parcel was sent - 8 weeks... at which time it was to late to leave feedback. Very lucky seller.... or just an arse....So eBay protecting buyers more than sellers ... BULL.So I have cut down dramatically on my eBay stuff.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 06:49:30 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 06, 2015, 02:26:05 amNope. That won't work either.Quotehttp://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/return-policy.htmlEbay is 100% behind the buyer. 5(?) year ago, they decided to screw the sellers over. You could put "NO RETURNS" in all 100 point font all over the auction, and they can still return it.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:09:23 am
content: QuoteIn the UK/EU that's because the law says that the buyer can return it for any reason.Admittedly that doesn't apply to private sellers - but there's too much abuse of that with people who are obviously trading commercially not registering as a business with ebay.Someone trading as a business but not indicating so in any online sale, along with their business contact details is breaking the law here - dunno about the US.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 08:26:32 am
content: In the USA, they don't care if you're a business or not. And returns are not required by law (except for certain things like cell phones, where you buy it with a plan, and you may not have reception) and dealers that sell cars in some states. I'm sure there are a few other - but it's not a universal law AFAIK.Paypal sends the tax collector your income - and that's all anyone really cares about is if you pay tax on the income.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 12:37:50 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 10, 2015, 05:54:05 amNewbie.Quote from: kaz911 on July 10, 2015, 05:54:05 amI agree. Buyers should get their feedback simply by paying promptly.Many sellers seem to have it automated - buyers magically get their feedback 30 seconds after the seller gets theirs. Those that don't automate it usually don't bother to give feedback at all. It's quite rare to get feedback simply by paying for the item.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:15:29 pm
content: Quote from: jwm_ on July 09, 2015, 08:21:11 pmI don't believe for a moment that bulk sellers intentionally try to defraud 2% of their customers. Sellers have to upload tracking info to eBay, and eBay well knows what standard loss rates are with all the various shipping services. It would be very obvious if a seller was intentionally not shipping even a small percentage of orders. It could only even work in theory with small low cost items that people don't care enough to complain about, but in those cases - the cost of handling the dispute and associated time and additional cost for a seller would more than offset a 2% gain. It just wouldn't make any sense - and it doesn't happen.QuoteNonsense. Sellers can't leave feedback for buyers, and they aren't in charge of the return shipping option. eBay suggests you send it tracked, because you have to prove the seller received it back. It is the buyer who takes the risk on return shipping - a seller wouldn't care how they shipped it. And in many cases, a seller would come out ahead if it got lost in return shipping.QuoteNonsense. There are countless more scam buyers than sellers. It's not as easy to create a selling account as a buying account, and PayPal holds funds for new sellers - so there is no way to just create lots of accounts and scam people for small amounts. And just as a numbers game, it's MUCH easier to scam a seller than to scam a buyer - and there are orders of magnitude more buyers than sellers. Not to mention, eBay has made it clear they are turning a blind eye to bad buyer behavior while being very strict about bad seller behavior... which drives away scam sellers and invites scam buyers.I know a lot of sellers and everyone has multiple stories of bad buyers. I've never run into a scam seller.Speaking of ebay issues, I just recieved ten boards with mini usb connectors soldered on when they promised micro connectors.... time to contact the seller...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 07:59:42 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 10, 2015, 07:15:29 pmThere's a lot of stupid buyers. I've seen negative feedback for stuff people where paid $5 for something that should really cost $100 then complain because it wasn't very good quality. Do you buy $5 USB powered speakers thinking they're going to have audiophile-pleasing sound? Some people apparently do.Lots of people also give instant bad feedback when there's a problem instead of contacting the seller to sort it out.OTOH a lot of sellersdoinclude smallprint. I bought some trousers last month and they didn't have a belt, even though all the pictures clearly showed matching belts. I complained and found out I have to read every last word of the advert instead of just looking at the pictures. They gave me a $5 partial refund though so I gave them good feedback (after I went back online and ordered a $6 belt).Talking to sellers works wonders. I've always got a refund or partial refund when I'm not happy (which is rarely - I'm perfectly aware I'm buying stuff that cost pennies in China).

author: -jeffB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 10, 2015, 07:15:29 pmThe previous poster was clearly talking about how things werebeforethe policy change, when sellerscouldleave feedback for buyers.QuoteYou've led a charmed life, then. In the coin categories I frequent, it's a huge and growing problem.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 09:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: -jeffB on July 10, 2015, 09:45:46 pmI've ran into bad deals. Seller shipped out a wrong item, or item didn't perform as advertised etc.. in all cases I got it resolved without any hassle. This included seller refunding me without requesting the item back, or things like giving me a discount or accepting a return.Mistakes happen, and often if you find a good deal it's because the seller doesn't really know what he/she is selling. So it's a given you will have some problems. But you have every protection as a buyer and I don't see how you can get scammed if you follow just a few basic rules.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 10:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: -jeffB on July 10, 2015, 09:45:46 pmNot clear at all - sellers can still leave whatever comments they like regardless of the feedback being categorized as positive. And there is just zero motivation for a seller to threaten anything to a buyer in order to get them to use a specific shipping option. It doesn't pass the smell test. eBay dictates terms of return shipping, not sellers.QuoteForget anecdotal evidence. From a logical standpoint, since eBay makes it much more difficult to be a seller on the site than a buyer, it's clear that there would be many more buying scammers than selling scammers. Not to mention that eBay goes to great lengths to filter out scamming sellers, including having a very low tolerance for user complaints against any seller, but with a very lax policy towards buyer complaints. Combined with PayPal holding the money of unproven sellers for some weeks, it means that the claim there are more scamming sellers isn't reasonable.And that's what I have found to be true.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2015, 11:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on July 10, 2015, 10:52:21 pmNegative comments disguised as positive feedback are against eBay policy, and will be removed by eBay customer service on request.