Advancements in magnetic transistor efficiency  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 01:34:18 am
content: I can't get past the idea of the chromium. Chrome transistors make me think of the OG Cyclons or Terminator 2.Chromium sulfur bromide probably looks nothing like that but I still want a Chrome CPU.Phys.org has a summarizing articleabout the use of this material to advance transistor efficiencies. Andthere's the research paperif you want to go down that rabbit hole.I recoil when I see adjective laden praise such as "miracle material." Graphene was such a "miracle" too and the wild claims haven't come to fruition for the most part. This latest from MIT does seem to indicate some uses forchromium sulfur bromide

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 01:46:03 am
content: From that phys.org summary article:QuoteThat's just shitty, shitty writing. "Improving the process by reducing the material's defects makes the performance better".Sheesh. Is that the best we can expect these days?

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 01:55:39 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/the-persuasion-and-growth-of-academic-hype-(a-research-paper)/Quote

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 03:30:15 am
content: Quote from: Simmed on September 25, 2025, 01:55:39 amExactly. I also believe that the advent of AI is going to accelerate number these issues. Academia is too tied to financial outcomes and corporate greed these days.Where is science still done unimpeded and relatively uninfluenced by money?I'm quiet likely too ignorant of the history of science research but my anecdotal knowledge suggest that society once had scientist that were supported by benefactors that were more likely interested in prestige and enlightenment than the direct financial gain.Today, you must publish or be considered a failure. Your research is only interesting if its going to pay off. So the hype machine continues.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 04:46:36 am
content: The molecular bonds of chromium are "special", because it is the lightest element whose electron configuration, 1s² 2s² 2p⁶ 3s² 3p⁶ 3d⁵ 4s¹, differs from the simpleaufbau rule, which states that electron orbital subshells are filled in increasing order ofn+ℓ, wherenis the principal quantum number (or "shell") andℓis the azimuthal quantum number (or "subshell"). The simple rule does apply to all lighter elements, and predicts electron configuration 1s² 2s² 2p⁶ 3s² 3p⁴ 4s² 3d⁶ for chromium, but in reality the electron vacancies in the three outermost subshells differ. (The superscript is the number of electrons, the number describesn, and the letter describesℓwith s=0, p=1, d=2, f=3, and so on. The subshells are described in the aufbau rule order.)In practice, this means that the interactions chromium atoms have with other atoms and molecules is surprisingly complex, because they involve electrons from at least two of the three outermost subshells. It is also why the otherwise very useful-for-metalsembedded atom model— a non-quantum potential model that approximates atomic interactions using electron density estimates calculated pairwise, useful for systems of up to billions of atoms — does not yield useful results for metal alloys involving chromium, unless the model/method is augmented by using more than one "band" of electrons (multi-band EAM). When using such a model with parameters fitted from experimental data, multi-band EAM does reproduce for example the almost dendritic way relative chromium density decreases from surface to bulk in ferrochrome alloys consisting of mostly iron and 10% to 30% chromium, sometimes used to examine what gives stainless steel its corrosion resistance (11%-20% chromium, mostly iron, but with nickel, molybdenum, and other metals, and carbon and other non-metals added in, making its direct modeling using classical/non-quantum models quite difficult).Because of quantum physics/chemistry, the effect dopant atoms have in an otherwise regular lattice "reach" much further than one would assume from a classical viewpoint. For example, it reaches much, much further than the typical cut-off distance used in EAM modeling. It is because of this that to get very good usable results when searching for e.g. new semiconductor materials, ab-initio or quantum simulations (limited to at most a few thousand atoms, few tens of thousands of interacting electrons) have to be used. For stuff like tensile strength and similar, parameters obtained from EAM simulations applied to finite element method (FEM) mechanical analysis suffices well: such simulations are in pretty close agreement to practical testing of many metal alloys.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 05:02:24 am
content: @Nom: Sorry to have to tell you this, but your posts are some of the most MEGO-inducing ones on this whole forum.Having said that, I'm glad you find so much pleasure in all that minutiae about chemical bonds and valences and such. Good for you.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 05:39:32 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on September 25, 2025, 05:02:24 amWhy don't you put me in yourIgnore List, then? You can still choose to read specific posts of mine by clicking on them, but they will no longer induce your eyes to glaze over by default. I won't be offended, either, because it helps you concentrate on things you can contribute to, and not waste time on things that do not interest you.If you haven't used that list before, you can find it by clickingProfile>Summarynear the top of every page, then on the new page, slightly lower,Modify Profile>Buddies/Ignore list...>Edit Ignore List.I use it myself in a similar way, to control my own interactions with others. Right now, I have six members on mine, but I periodically clear it out every few weeks, to see if my attitude towards their posts has changed. I definitely don't want any of them to be banned or to stop posting per se: it is purely a mechanism I use to control what I read and respond to. Even the act of clicking on a post from a member in my Ignore List reminds me to monitor my reaction, so it is a pretty good tool for this.Quote from: Analog Kid on September 25, 2025, 05:02:24 amMy education background is in computational materials physics, and my BSc thesis was on ferrochrome. Based on my simulation investigations, I even predicted the clustering and density variation as a function of the distance to the surface, just before someone managed to actually image it and publish the pictures.I simply thought that these key notes why chromium is "special" would be relevant in a thread that started with"I can't get past the idea of the chromium."

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 05:58:14 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 25, 2025, 05:39:32 amHey, don't get me wrong. I'm just complaining, venting. it's something we hue-mons sometimes like to do.MEGO is the least of my problems, believe me.And I really don't like reading fora like these ones through ignore-colored glasses. I don't need things to be tidied up that way.

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2025, 12:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 25, 2025, 04:46:36 amWow, thanks for this. I had a shallow understanding of the gifts chromium offers to other elements and how it touches our lives in both beauty and function every day. Now you've made me want to go study more of its properties.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 06:25:51 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on September 25, 2025, 05:58:14 amIn other words, you find it more reasonable to tell me my posts make your eyes glaze over, than use the tools provided to skip them?What the fuck, man? That's like asking me to stop posting here because my posts bore youandyou don't want to use filters either. How pathologically entitled can a person be, asking others to change so they themselves don't have to toggle one knob on a website?

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 08:44:29 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 26, 2025, 06:25:51 amGo ahead and post all you like. I hope you're not so thin-skinned that an uncomplimentary post from me ruins your whole day. C'mon, you can do better than that.Like we used to say back in the day, don't let me harsh your buzz, man.I wouldn't want to make all your posts disappear (from my eyes); not all of them bore me. You're not a pest or a "troll"; some of your stuff is pretty good, so why would I want to make it all go away?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:44:13 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on September 26, 2025, 08:44:29 amI do read every response to my posts, and consider them at face value, not based on emotions.This means that when I read a response saying my post made their eyes glaze over, I re-read my own post, and analyze it whether I should have not posted it, or how I should have written it differently. That is, I treat this forum exactly like I'd treat the comments from a coworker. I do not treat posts on this forum as random comments from passersby.What value was your "uncomplimentary post" to anybody except yourself? This is not social media for random offhand comments without meaningful content, or for emotional outbursts. This is a technical forum, and this particular thread is a technical one.I guess I have to start using the Ignore List for a secondary purpose now: to ignore posts from members that I do not believe think their posts through, and instead post whatever random thoughts they may have at that moment, so that I won't waste time considering such responses like I normally do.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 10:58:47 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 26, 2025, 10:44:13 amYup.That's about the only valid use-case for the "ignore member" list. My list has become too long for my comfort

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 07:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 26, 2025, 10:44:13 amUnfortunately the ignore list only lets me skip past those posts in a condensed manner but not the garbage blow back that occurs. The one thing I can say is that I owe that poster the thanks for me discovering the "ignore" list.I don't believe that a thread starter has any particular ownership or stewardship over a thread other than to say their intent in starting it. As such, please accept my humble opinion and thanks for up leveling this thread with your knowledge freely given.My knee jerk reaction to the article was negative due to the previously discussed push to market science. Your details made me more interested and I have since dug deeper into the details and I'm really hopeful of some advancements that could produce levels of efficiency we've only imagined.Thank you!

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2025, 05:58:40 am
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on September 26, 2025, 07:06:49 pmTransistors are very deep into the dopant quantum effect realm, which is why I don't trust any marketing speak until I see actual devices tested (although even experimental hand-built example ones often not public do suffice for me).Funnily enough, even modeling the silica (silicon oxide) insulator layer in semiconductors is an art itself. Bulk silicon and even the metals used form pretty nice regular lattices (although polycrystalline germanium tends to be "grains" of lattices, and dopant atoms and impurities make a HUGE difference). Silica is an amorphous, random-like structure, not a lattice at all. It, too, makes a huge difference. For simulations, it means you need a very large volume. Quantum simulations compute a small volume infinitely repeated in all directions, so if your volume is too small, your silica is not truly amorphous, but actually a lattice of small amorphous-like chunks. Many materials physicists/chemists have been bitten by this, too.(The most annoying common stuff to model iswater. The two Mickey Mouse -ear hydrogen atoms bonded to a single oxygen atom sounds simple, but the darn things are polar (not electrically neutral, as the "visible" charge depends on what direction you look at the water molecule from), and their interactions reachfar. My favourite example of this isclathrate hydrates. Molecular physicists and chemists usually break out in visible cold sweat if you tell them you want them to accurately simulate water. Then they try very, very hard to talk you out of it.)As to transistor developments itself, I find layman-friendly articles likethis one about germanium transistorsfrom 2015 very informative on this subject — and indicative of how new ways to do even better are discovered. I have personally never worked on transistors at the atomic scale myself, so I have absolutely no clue what direction the next advancements will come from, or whether those involve chromium or other "new" dopants/elements; all I know there is a lot of room for improvement, even without going into photonic circuitry (where signals propagate using photons instead of charge carriers, electrons or electron vacancies in semiconductors).TL;DR/MEGO: I have no clue if the article is bunk or not, and don't even have an opinion on it. At the atomic level, transistors are fascinatingly complex, and their design involves a lot ofart. I only wanted to spotlight and clarify/explain some of the issues/details involved.