Are all-in-one rework stations any good? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NDani
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 06:48:31 pm
content: Dear All,I am thinking about upgrading my soldering equipment to a solution that includes various rework functions, such as hot air and vacuum desoldering.From a practicality point of view, all-in-one rework stations that support a soldering iron, a hot air gun as well as a desoldering tool seem very tempting even though they are expensive. But basically, I would be willing to invest as long as they work very well and serve me long.However, I am a bit confused about the hot air capabilities of these stations. The examples I have looked at so far are: Weller WXR3, Ersa Vario-2 and Hakko FM-206. They claim an air blow capacity of about 15 L/min maximum and the hot air tools seem to have very narrow openings compared to stand-alone hot air stations. Also, stand-alone hot air stations I have looked at have an air blow capacity of at least 100 L/min on average.Is there a specific reason why the hot air capabilities of these all-in-one stations are specified so low compared to stand-alone ones? And does this make a difference in practice? Do you think all-in-one rework stations are any good in general?Thanks!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 07:36:17 pm
content: Some of hot air station require external air compressor, make sure you compare apples to apples.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 07:45:53 pm
content: In general, i am not a fan of all-in-one tools, because if a part of the tool does not work well or you do not like it, you are stuck with it, whereas if they are separate tools you can replace the one you do not like.

author: NDani
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2020, 02:14:33 pm
content: Thanks for your response!The hot air stations I have seen claiming around 100-120 l/min air blow (Hakko FR-810B, Weller WTHA1 or even Atten AT858D+) all work without external compressed air I beleive.

author: h4x0r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 01:32:34 am
content: You may find that in your country the Ersa is a far better value proposition than it is here in Australia.If I had the free choice and money was no object, it is what I would purchase.

author: sn4k3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2020, 03:21:15 am
content: ERSA air is ok for small smds but not good for large chips, i can replace TV CPU with quick DW and a pre-heater but ersa will not do it. It's all up your requirements. Maybe can have both ersa and a quick for bigger needs.My suggestion:pace ads200Quick 861DWCant go wrong this that setup

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2020, 06:44:43 am
content: I use the Pace ADS200 single channel soldering station along with the Pace MBT 350 three channel rework station. For handpieces mostly the TD-200 soldering iron, SX-100 desoldering iron and the MT-100 mini tweezers.If you're intending on removing large packages I'd recommend separate hot air. Most multi channel stations were never intended for BGA or brute force rework. As sn4k3 mentioned the Quick 861DW seems popular for that. If you're on a budget just get a 858D clone. Using a preheater will enhance the performance of any hot air station.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2020, 07:05:35 am
content: I have a weller wmd3 with 3 tools. it's an old one but the hot air tool is deceiving, not enough power. I use it to heat heatschrink tubes !I bought a quick dw861 and it's really better to desoldier any big circuit. of course a preheater is mandatory for that.I also bought a 858 hot air station before the quick, but it almost caught fire once so ... you got what you pay for.you need a 1000w heater to be able to use it on almost anything.

author: NDani
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 07:02:28 am
content: Thanks for all your answers! Basically, I wouldn't be removing large chips from thick boards, I'd only need the hot air for working on maybe 4 layer boards maximum. So the smaller air flow might be sufficient.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 07:08:17 am
content: 4 layers boards all have big ground planes, and without a preheater you will not remove anything...even small 0805 capacitors !

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 01:18:43 pm
content: Quote from: NDani on January 27, 2020, 07:02:28 amEach circumstance is different but proper technique is using gentle heating from the top or from the underside to slowly bring the board up to a preheat temp. It reduces the thermal energy required to then reach reflow at a high temp.If you were looking at a complete setup to do almost everything, get a hot air station that is capable of large BGA rework (so nozzle selection is an important part of this) a preheater and a hot air reflow oven.For precision stuff this is my Pace TJ 70 handpiece with it's range of tips, it's a more specialized tool designed mostly for installation but it does soldering, desoldering, conformal coating, track repair, heat shrink, connectors etc.It has a couple of advantages, while temp and airflow are controlled by the station there is a switch on the handpiece that actuates the air. It also can be controlled by foot pedal, so it's happy to just sit there without airflow if you want. This also means you can use it hands free, which has a variety of uses.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 01:35:43 pm
content: I have the FM-206 with solder sucker, hot air pen and soldering iron (I have the tweesers too, but I've never used them).Apart from the fan noise I love it. It really quite loud though.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 04:29:15 pm
content: Sorry to niggle, I've just been through this before. Hakko has made some great products but I don't recommend the FM2024 desoldering gun or the FM2027/FM2028 soldering handpiece.When Pace introduced the new TD200 aluminum handpiece for the ADS200 station they also made an aluminum TD100A for their entire existing series of stations, while not as fast and accurate as the TD200 it's still nicer and cheaper to run than the Hakko FM2027/FM2028.Onto desoldering, the tips for the Hakko FM2024 are elaborate and really expensive, you're looking at ~$400 US for the full set of eight tips. Pace for their SX-100 desoldering handpiece does a set of 8 tips (6993-0288) for a mere $64 US.That is a substantial difference given both the multichannel stations with handpieces retail for similar prices. Pace also has a range of 55 different desoldering tips and to be fair some of them are specialized and more expensive. This is before you get into a discussion over which brand desoldering handpiece is nicer and easier to swap out the solder traps on (*cough* Pace).Now I have said that, here is where I mix it up... do I recommend running out and buying the Pace TD100A aluminum handpiece on their existing multichannel stations or how about even their mini tweezers the MT100? Well no unless you are on that system already or in a hurry to buy.As Pace are in the middle of transitioning to their new Accudrive series of tools and stations the Pace ADS200 with the TD200 aluminum soldering handpiece is the better performer. Last update was the 120W aluminum mini tweezer the MT200 was really close to being released as well.So the best option at this stage is if you are like me (with my bias towards durability and repairability) and decide on Pace over Hakko, like sn4k3 and I said... get the ADS200 now for soldering and grab a Quick 861DW for hot air if they are in your price range. If you can do better than a Quick 861DW for the price I think a lot of people will be really interested.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 06:50:01 pm
content: Your budget? Average use? Full time pro or occasional tinkerer?My cheapo hot air and soldering station has served me well and not electrocuted me yet; nor has it set the house on fire although I don't trust it (makes a quiet buzzing sound) so unplug it when not in use.I have separate desoldering gun with built in pump.Compressed air and a smd paste dispenser might be my next purchase.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 08:58:11 pm
content: Thanks you reminded me of paste dispensers and pick tools as I was going to mention those. Pace sells a reasonably inexpensive pick tool (7027-0001-P1) for their stations with air, so it's kind of like a bonus.They also do a paste dispenser but I don't think it's supported on the last series of stations. With the resurgence of DIY protyping and inhouse low volume manufacturing due to cheap PCBs there might be more demand in the future for this stuff to be included.

author: NDani
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 06:52:51 am
content: Thanks for all your answers and comments. Average use would be for hobby projects. So a very expensive all-in-one station might sound like an overkill, but in fact they grabbed my attention with their compactness, which, having limited bench space, is very attractive to me. Budget is rather flexible, but spending over $2k is only an option if what I get serves me very well and long. Based on your comments I think I might have to sacrifice compactness, because getting separate tools is simply better value for money.