Camera to photograph Repairs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:17:49 pm
content: I'm in the process of buying a camera to shoot some repairs, and some work to show to my friends and post on forums, so I'm curious with what camera do you guys use to photograph the repairs, PCB's and that kind of stuff?I've been looking at TiN's websitehttps://xdevs.com/guide/hwphoto/, very well explained, like he always does, but he has top notch gear, D800 & D3, and good lens.This other websitehttps://forums.xilinx.com/t5/General-Technical-Discussion/board-photography/td-p/169964, talks about low cost alternatives, like Canon A800, Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX77, both P&S cameras.Currently I'm taking photos with my phone witch has a 16 Megapixel camera, f/2.0, it takes good and clear pictures, but I'm looking at something that I can use all the time without been worry if in the middle of the picture the phone rings.I was looking at $200 tag, I've been looking at DSLR's Nikon D200, D90, both of this are 10 and 12 Megapixel, I know the lens does almost all the work.Do you guys have some opinion of what should I look.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:28:21 pm
content: I can highly recommend Sony SLT-A58.. 20 Mpix, good sensor, very inexpensive for the specs..Sony has some entry level lenses, not bad for non pro, you can use old Minolta Alpha mount lenses...Look into it..Cheers and good luck with the search!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:28:50 pm
content: You might find some info in this recent thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/anyone-into-cameras/

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:47:05 pm
content: One thing you *really* want is good macro focus. You'll need it for up close things. I'd almost say you should pick the camera with the best macro capabilities.Ed

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 09:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 28, 2016, 08:28:50 pmtautech, I've already read all the threads here in the forum, but not much about what cameras and what lens to use, I was looking at some discussion and some light on what to search for.For lens I think that an 28-70mm with f/2.8 or something like this.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 09:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: Nuno_pt on September 28, 2016, 09:22:20 pm28-70mm on full frame camera ?If you only want this for photographing equipment repairs, buy entry level SLR, not full frame.. You will need light and tripods and that can give you great results..Also you will need macro lens and a general lens... For general lens good kit lens will do just fine... Technique and setup is more important than camera...That is if you want very good results for minimum money..If you can afford it, by all means go buy most expensive equipment you can... But don't expect good results if you don't know how to use it professionally...I always show people this guys's work:https://www.flickr.com/photos/24796741@N05/He uses cheap Canon SX260 P&S camera....Wish I could do this with $2000 camera ....Take care!!

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 09:55:11 pm
content: Good points made above, one of the most and difficult things if you want to take good pictures of electronics IMO is correct focus of the entire subject and having no shadows. Take multiple diffused light sources to light up under different angles so you do not have shadows.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on September 28, 2016, 09:55:11 pm+1I often take multiple pics under LED's as flicker can show up in pics that you have no idea that was there.Then sort through pics to find ones that are good enough to post.If you start with good pics then compress them to fit forum requirements you can generally get away with pretty much any camera for imagery.Sometimes just my old iPhone 4S other times a 8 Mp compact is fine.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:48:50 pm
content: Good lighting will do wonders. Get that first and use your phone. You might be surprised at the excellent results.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 06:42:36 am
content: $200? Forget full frame, forget fast f2.8 zoom lens. Forget mainstream proper lighting.. and most importantly, forget proper dslr macro lens that usually used for macro (micro actually) electronics.. for $200, you can buy any descent dslr or point and shoot, and the rest you have to go poor men's way. Such as china 3rd party macro adapter and some snapped in flou light on a cheapy tripod with holders made or printed... btw, i 3d printed adapter of eye loupe to my sp camera with ring led light run off 12v battery..

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 07:32:14 am
content: Forget using a DSLR for this kind of thing.For close-ups of PCBs, you're shooting at high magnification, and this means shallow depth of field.But, you don't want shallow DoF, you want most or all of the frame to be in focus. To achieve this, you reduce the aperture size.As well as making the image sharper, this also reduces the total amount of light getting to the sensor, thereby negating the benefit of having a big lens and sensor in the first place.That said, I do sometimes use a DSLR to document PCB issues. Sometimes I use it with extension tubes and a 50mm f/1.4 lens (stopped down to somewhere around f/18 more often than not). Sometimes I attach it to a microscope. Both produce results which can be good.The majority of my PCB photos are taken with my tired old Canon Ixus 800IS, though. It's quick, easy to use, small and light enough to put exactly where I need it to go, and I can have a shot captured, downloaded and emailed in the time it takes me to fetch the DSLR from its bag and find some batteries for its flashgun.Spend the time, money and effort on lighting instead.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 08:07:45 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on September 29, 2016, 07:32:14 ambut good luck on finding manual aperture set button on cheapy PnS. manual aperture setting only available in DSLR or semipro PnS Canon/Nikon/Sony etc. those are not $200... and semipro PnS will be more expensive than cheapest DSLR like Canon 600D (not sure the latest model)Quote from: blueskull on September 29, 2016, 07:27:46 amno need inverted mess. just try a convex lens in front of your kit lens. your setup will instantaneuously become macro photoshootingbtw, buy Canon, dont buy Nikon or Sony, why? because i'm a Canon fanman...

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 09:16:36 am
content: Well about light, my bench is 10 feet wide by 3 feet deep, (for us in EU is 3m by 1m), I've 2x1.5m T8 25W 6500K side by side to cover the bench, got plenty of light here.I've one tripod here that a friend of mine that is doing some hobby photography on the weekends gave me, heavy robust aluminum tripod, I'm also making a soft box about 2x2x2 feet, to shoot inside.I agree that if you don't know how to shoot the pictures gonna look like crap even with multi dollars DSLR, but if you know even with low cost P&S you can do good things.I know that with $200 you can't buy a DSLR + Macro lens, I was thinking $200 for DSLR, I've plenty of space and can leave the DSLR always setup on the tripod pointing to the softbox, I know that with an P&S it's more portable, less time in setting up. (I have to buy one new also to shoot on vacations)My intention with this thread was to make some kind of dummy guide for the ones that don't understand nothing about photography of repairs or PCB's, and think that with only Hi end gear you can do this, and not on the cheap side, gathering information about some DSLR and P&S, and also about Macro lens.Some cameras talk here has been;DSLRNikon D200, D90, Canon EOS 600D, Sony NEX, Sony SLT-A58P&SCanon A800, Canon Ixus 800IS, Canon SX260, Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX77

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 09:24:10 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on September 29, 2016, 08:07:45 amMy point is that a small camera with a small sensor has a small aperture all the time. You don't need manual aperture control.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 10:46:06 am
content: Canon SX260 has full manual, aperture and shutter priority.. And many new P/S that are not ethusiast level... I also put CHDK on it so have RAW and other advanced features... Honestly, i think that kind of camera is good enough with good lightning and technique... Good lighting skills are 90% of photo in studio enviroment.. My SLR makes a difference only when dynamic range of scene is very wide.. In controled lighting you would be hard pressed to see difference ..

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 07:11:42 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on September 29, 2016, 09:24:10 amThe thing I find frustrating when trying to shoot with something like a small P&S or the iPhone is getting the damned thing to focus on whatIwant it to, and not whatitfeels like focusing on. The ability to fine-tune the focus point in macro photography is very important in my opinion. Finding a way to get that ability for $200 or less will be challenging to do.-Pat

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 07:29:17 am
content: And again even a small stupid Canon SX260 has manual focus, it's just fiddly to do it it with buttons..But as people already said, because of small sensor and lens, depth of focus is much greater in small cameras, so no need to be very precise..That is a problem on large sensors, macro lenses and large apertures...Good P&S with manual mode, tripod and good lights can give almost pro results, especially if you rescale for upload...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 07:44:02 am
content: and the small stupid SX260 (no offense to owners) is not $200 out of the box brand new... btw, my samsung KZoom smartphone camera hybrid can manually select focus area with just finger tap... but again... its not $200... btw, small sensor small aperture PnS kicker will be sensor sensitivity to low light, crank up the ISO and you'll get multichromatic noise everywhere. so lighting setup must be right tuned to the sensor sensitivity. get the lighting right, you can get photography class images out of cheapy (but not china cheapy, just a decent cheapy from well known brands like again... Canon) small PnS we all photographers know that...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 08:43:10 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on September 30, 2016, 07:11:42 amThat's probably because they're in auto-everything dummy mode.Any halfway decent camera (and by that, I mean any device sold as a camera and not a toy or a telephone) should have a manual mode, which amongst other things lets you set the focus point to the middle of the frame. Half press the shutter to focus, then if necessary, move the camera to adjust composition.You can't half-press a touch sensitive 'button' on a phone screen, and for that reason among many others, I wouldn't try using a phone camera to take close-up shots of electronics except in an emergency.They might be getting better in terms of image quality, but no camera manufacturer ever made a camera shaped like a flat slab that you poke at to take pictures. There's a very good reason for this.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 09:13:07 am
content: I have tow cameras: a compact old one, Minolta Dimage Z1 and a DSLR Nikon D90, which outperform the Minolta on all specs. Still, for electronics/repairs pictures I mainly use the small Minolta Z1, and almost never the Nikon D90.Why? Because Minolta is small, compact and it is great at taking macro and closeups. Also, having a smaller sensor, the Minolta Z1 depth of field is bigger. Having a lower resolution (3.2 megapixels), the Minolta Z1 pictures does not take too much space to store or to publish the pics unmodified on the web, but are big and detailed enough to look at them, even on a 4K monitor. Being small and light is much easier to use. Normal AA rechargeable are also cheaper in the long run. Being old and cheap, it can be used without the fear of splattering solder on multi thousands $ gear.Look for a small, compact and with a very good macro camera. Wi-Fi download would be great to have.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 09:19:39 am
content: Well I bought it new for 1200 kn thats 160 €.. You can shoot ISO 100 if you go slow shutter from tripod and have a good light...

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 09:44:11 am
content: Even the low end DSLRs are above the $200 limit and they are not that well suited. At least the Nikon D3300 Kit Lense can at least focus reasonably close. So it works, but is not that convenient. The sensor size is not per se limiting depth of field - you can get similar pictures as a P&S camera by cropping the picture and using a small aperture and high ISO setting (so something like short lens, 2 fold digital zoom, f/22 and ISO3200 might get you where the camera in the phone is). The actual difference is the density of the pixels on the sensor. So a low pixel count old DSLR has a DOF problem - a high resolution one can work as good as a P&S, just with an extend picture size.The more suitable choice is a P&S camera. The points to look at are manual aperture setting and close focusing not jut at at fully zoomed out. No need for super zoom or a large Lense. The usual picture is likely anyway with something like f/16 and the internal flash. If you get one with a filter thread, this would allow for an cheap extra close up lens to get some true macro capability if you need it. I don't know a good one, just one a kind that is not suitable (Sony WX80: no aperture control and limited close focus).Focusing macro shots can be tricky, as the DOF is small. But you have a simlilar problem with a DSLR. So a good size screen could help to see if it is in focus. An automatic out of focus warning would be nice, but I have not seem that - top of my personal wishlist.With hand held marcos it is normal to have a few out of focus as it may take only a 1 mm movement. Sometimes it is the question of which part of a flies eye to have focus.

author: JGAN
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2016, 06:30:46 am
content: If you are getting a DSLR, don't bother getting anything but a macro lens or else you won't really get any benefits over a point and shoot. I use either the Nikon 60mm f/2.8 micro or 105mm f/2.8 micro depending on if I'm shooting crop or full frame or how close I want to get.If you want to go full digital microscope, there are some good quality chinese ones for around $200-$300 that I can recommend.Otherwise the cheapest option would honestly be to get a macro lens attachment for your smartphone. If you have a smartphone with a decent camera like the iPhone, you can pick up a macro lens off Amazon for $15 or $20 and get some pretty good shots with it.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2016, 03:47:26 am
content: blackberry etc works fine, what's more important is a moveable lightsource so you eliminate glare from shiny surfaces.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2016, 10:50:45 pm
content: Quote from: Nuno_pt on September 28, 2016, 08:17:49 pmWhat happened? I second the Canon withhttp://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2016, 05:32:11 pm
content: 200$ is bit tough limit, so P&S with good macro and small zoom range probably would work best. Make sure it has manual mode, to set exposure , ISO and focus manually (best with focus ring). Tripod is a must, and then you can use my led trick to save on lights. 95% of photos you see I do with LED and exposure 2-10 seconds.Once you grow out of this gear (which may take 2-5 years), then you get real 1:1 macro lens in 60-105mm range and either Nikon or C system. Sony and other systems are less popular (harder to get good lens cheaply) and often need some flimsy useless adapters and stuff.