Magnet wire (insulated with thin layer), ok for electronics? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Decoman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 04:45:30 pm
content: So I know that some people use wire which is known as 'magnet wire' for low powered hobby electronics, butI wonder what you guys think about the use of such wire in electronics.This wire has some kind of film that acts as isolation and that isolation can easily be melted away when soldering on a piece of wire, not requiring any wire stripping.The isolation film is transparent (afaik) and so it looks odd as the copper wire looks more like a bare metal wire, which, had it been plain copper wire, would afaik easily short if coming in contact with other wires.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_wire

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 05:54:07 pm
content: I like this wire. I think it can be great for fixing things (although I have not used it that way), in case you need to jumper a small part to another.However, the really thin magnet wire is difficult to see and could strain the eye if working with it a lot (I tried to hook up a small circuit on protoboard only using this wire). Of course, if the circuit is drawing some amps, the current rating/wire gauge must be considered. There are thicker and thinner ones available.Another issue you might run into is the wire insulation sometimes not being properly thermally stripped (well, I ran into it at start). So, when possible, I like to either preheat the wire end before soldering to make it easier, or keep the iron slightly longer to ensure that the insulation is off. I have no idea how the professionals do it, however, as keeping the iron any longer than necessary could damage a component (not a big issue with small protoboard stuff).The big advantage of the wire is that you don't need to strip insulation with a wire stripping tool each time. So you could have a 3 point connection (for example) with one piece of wire. But, still, there's not going to be any huge advantage over standard wire, especially since with the standard one you don't have to worry about making sure the insulation is off (you can see it).

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:38:44 pm
content: Is is extremely dependent on exactly what the application is. The main disadvantage of magnet-wire is that the insulation is very thin and so it it is MUCH more vulnerable to shorting to something undesirable. There is no generic answer to this question. We have seen many examples of people using magnet wire for small (and medium) prototype boards, and for "bodge wire" repairs on PCBs. If you are very careful to preserve the delicate insulation you are probably OK. But I wouldn't use it anywhere where you expected vibration (such as in an RC vehicle, drone, etc.) The insulation is so thin that you could easily wear through it with a little vibration that wouldn't even touch a conventional wire insulation.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2017, 06:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on December 04, 2017, 05:54:07 pmTry tinning it first (if tinned, you know the insulations's gone). In hand rework operations of any volume, a solder pot would be helpful.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2017, 12:30:42 am
content: QuoteFWIW, you can do the same thing with kynar wire, if you use an open-ended stripping tool. They way I do it is to just take an extra long piece of wire. Strip an extra long bit on one end, then solder that end down. Then hold the wire over the other connection and strip that end, accounting for the offset I made on the first end. Since I'm pushing the strip tool towards the first joint, it's not pulling on the first joint or otherwise unduly stressing the wire at a sharp angle. I'm using the excess length to hold onto while stripping the second end. Solder it, and clip the end (or continue making as many more joints as you need). The only downside, if you can call it that, is that you end up with leftover bits of wire that get thrown out, which are too short to continue doing it like this. You need a good 4 inches to wrap around a finger so you can strip it. (Meh. I buy my wire in 1000 foot reels.) The main benefit is you don't have to flip or reacquire the wire; you never let go of it until you are done, and in many cases, you don't have to flip the pcb around to solder the other side.If the insulation ends up a bit too short, you can just strip another small section and push it along. Kynar insulation is easily pushed around over the wire like beads on a string.Yes, you don't have to use a wire stripper with magnet wire. But melting the insulation takes longer than using a wire stripper on kynar, if you have the right kind os stripper and learn how to do it, efficiently. At least if you include reliability/troubleshooting for bad joints, and/or needing to add more solder/flux in case you have dried up the joint while trying to strip magnet wire and/or to make the connection.There's nothing wrong with using magnet wire, up to the limitations of the insulation. Magnet wire has thinner insulation and is more malleable/shapeable and is probably lighter in weight for the gauge than anything else out there. If that's what you need, there's no substitute.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 02:23:49 pm
content: If you'll be working with magnet wire on a regular basis, a dedicated magnet wire stripper is very worthwhile. Eraser Co. and Carpenter are two brands to look into. I prefer the ones with fiber wheels, they are a little more flexible in stripping the insulation off a wider range of wire diameters, and don't damage the wire like the metal-bladed ones can.I have one of these and really like it.https://www.eraser.com/products/wire-cable-strippers/wheel-strippers/rt2s-magnet-wire-stripper/

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 07:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: precaud on December 08, 2017, 02:23:49 pmNot cheap. $700!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 08:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 04, 2017, 06:38:44 pmIn addition, I would not use it for experimental designs where you expect to make a few rounds of design changes -- move wires out of the way, unsolder and reconnect, add a few more connections in crowded spots etc.. Too easy to damage the insulation, by scraping or by heat, and difficult to visually find the resulting shorts.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 12:22:40 am
content: Quote from: steverino on December 08, 2017, 07:49:58 pmMuch cheaper used. I think I paid $75 for mine. It needed a new drive belt - $3. The fiber wheels are mostly interchangable between brands.

author: RandallMcRee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 12:29:04 am
content: Another disadvantage that has not been mentioned--how do you know that the insulation is actually gone? Remember its transparent! Did you strip that insulation, or did you forget?I did put together a project using such wire and eventually it worked great but I had a lot of trouble with this and, so, never again! The ability to just glance at a wire and see if it is insulated or not is invaluable. Normally we take it for granted.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 01:46:43 am
content: Quote from: Decoman on December 04, 2017, 04:45:30 pmit is by far the easiest for adding a bodge wire or making a quick deadbug prototype, the isolation is quite robust it doesn't just melt with solder, unless you do it from a cut end, dipping a fresh cut end in a blob of solder on the iron works perfect

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2017, 02:05:36 am
content: Quote from: RandallMcRee on December 09, 2017, 12:29:04 amTest for continuity after each joint where possible is one way to check. Not great, but that's what I did last time, and every joint actually worked (that was my second try at using this wire). The first time, I had some joints I needed to "reflow".