Ive never seen a circuit board made like this - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: larrybl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 09:10:12 pm
content: Skip to 13:60

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 10:45:24 pm
content: I've watched Nik and Richard from episode 3, and I must say, I've never seen anyone stuff Toyota Celica GT-4 motor and gearbox into a Mini, either.That said, as Nik says, the print-tracks-with-solder contraption they made to their mini CNC mill was mostly a replacement for breadboards, to allow them to do iterative development without weeks in between PCB iterations. You could ask why not etch their own boards, or wirewrap it instead, but I suspect the answer to those would be"we're guys with hammers and grinders, not angry pixie wranglers!"

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 11:19:18 pm
content: PSB (printed solder board)?Does the solder have to be RoHS? (ugh)Thanks but no thanks.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 11:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: larrybl on October 26, 2024, 09:10:12 pmYou sure about that timestamp?I don’t know how to set YouTube to non-sexagesimal time.As for that method — it’s… clever, I guess? I wouldn’t trust it to last 5 minutes in the vibration of a car, though!

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 11:29:12 pm
content: They could have laid down a thin layer of UV activated epoxy on the FR4, then used the CNC to lay thin copper wires into the goo. When all the wires were nicely in place, they could have used a UV lamp to cure the epoxy. A good old proven 1970s prototyping technique for PCBs, that small cheap modern CNCs have made easy and accessible.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 12:26:51 am
content: But that makes people talk and with the views they can surely order hundreds of proper PCBs with express options.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 12:45:49 am
content: QuoteAnd a hammer and chisel to make modifications.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 01:31:21 am
content: Also they just dispense molten solder as I understand? Usual solder is fine for solder joints but it has relatively poor conductivity, so making all your traces with it, ugh.(Tin - Sn - has about 6 times lower conductivity than copper. Lead-free solder typically has some amount of Cu and Ag as well, but in pretty low percentage for it to really improve conductivity.)Of course, if your circuits don't draw significant current, or have relatively short traces, that would be ok.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 10:04:18 am
content: Nik makes a damned good bracket or two. I have been watching this for a few years and what they have done is far beyond my fabrication skills.Their idea of CAD is biodegradable.It's been a months since the last update so I suspect this has taken a long time to make. Will be interesting how the get on with the dial faces.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 01:51:31 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on October 27, 2024, 10:04:18 amsome of the PCB printing nonsense they showed back in February, and said they had spent 18 months perfecting it, what a monumental waste of timeI've followed the binky series since the beginning and much of it has been good, but this one is just pointless.it is a amazing that they have nearly 3700 patreon at at least $2, for a short post maybe every few months and getting to see a video 2 days early every year or two..

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 02:06:58 pm
content: @Analog KidJennifer Lewis published a modified Tollens reagent in 2013 (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja209267c) for electrical circuits The nanoparticles of silver are presumably ROHS compliant and can be deposited at relatively high thicknesses compared to the original Tollens. (Tollens was used to silver mirrors.) It is supposedly solderable and sticks to plastic, unlike solder. I have not followed progress with that product, but suspect it may be used commercially today.I bought the reagents to make it at the time and have summarized the recipe before ACS (JACS) required payment/subscription for access (attached).

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 02:11:47 pm
content: i would be afraid for the long term solidity of this pcb, normally you rely on a copper layer 1st, mechanicals constraints etc ... thermals etc ... i would never use this methodsolder may crack ..

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 02:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on October 27, 2024, 02:06:58 pmInteresting, that might be good for cavities. Did you actually make some?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 02:24:29 pm
content: Like Nik said, it's not foruse, it's a prototyping tool.These guys have thus far avoided anything and everything electronic; in their own words, only didwiring. They're not angry pixie wranglers, they've only done mechanical stuff thus far.Weknow many better manufacturing/prototyping methods to achieve their stated goals (mainly iterative development). They didn't, and went down a funny rabbit hole instead, emerging all soiled and wonky.But, hell, the entire idea of Binky is wonky. Look at the entire project: it's utterly mad/stupid/weird/funny from the get go!If I were to interview Nik and Richard, I'd ask whether they used developing their track printing gadget as a funny excuse (or alternatively their own personal way) to get into electronics and PCB design, because as horrible as the results are (except if you compare it to breadboarding), it is perfectly in line with what these guys do as their hobby.So, I would suggest stopping even comparing it to "making circuit boards", and instead treat it as a wonky/funny way of prototyping.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 03:22:47 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 27, 2024, 02:18:36 pmI have not made the Lewis reagent per se. Tollens yes. We used to do it as a practical joke on other students. For example, after some students went home, we would silver coat the inside of a round bottom flask for them. It is quite hard to remove without resorting to nitric acid. The key to Lewis is formaldehyde rather than a reducing sugar (e.g., glucose) is used. That leaves a volatile product that is easily removed at moderate temperature.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 05:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on October 27, 2024, 12:45:49 amI've seen someone actually do that when they wanted to put slots in a PCB to reduce the surface leakage from one area to another. It produced a very artisan looking result.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 06:05:47 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 27, 2024, 02:24:29 pmbut with everything else binky the mad/stupid/weird/funny part was that it was all made better, stronger, nicer, that neededthis just seemed like a massive waste of time for an inferior result

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 06:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on October 27, 2024, 06:05:47 pmMy point is, it isnot a result; it's just one more temporary tool they did. When they know the design will work, they will have proper PCB's made.I don't like it either, mind you; it's just notskookumenough even for testing for me. This should have been a Howie Did It -episode, I think; but maybe they just have zero experience in electronics (other than wiring and fuses andusingECUs and such), and did not know or even know how to check for any better techniques.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 07:23:43 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 27, 2024, 06:39:41 pmMany points to you for using a Chinook jargon word there. (Northwestern Native Americanlingua francathat was understood by many tribes as well as white settlers and traders back in the day.)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 08:09:01 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on October 27, 2024, 06:05:47 pmWell that's all for the views. If they could use frozen pee and get double the views, they would probably too.Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if they just used "proper" methods, the videos would be half the length and would probably look boring to most.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 08:14:24 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 27, 2024, 08:09:01 pmseems it's been 2 years in the making

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 08:17:00 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on October 27, 2024, 07:23:43 pmit was popularized years ago byhttps://www.youtube.com/@arduinoversusevil2025

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 09:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 27, 2024, 08:09:01 pmYou obviously haven't watched the videos, nor observed the sparse schedule they post new videos. Really, what they are doing, is very much in line how they approach stuff, starting from the Mini rotisserie they initially created from tubing, threaded rod, and wiper motors a decade ago.Motorsports is what they do, not electronics (nor even youtube videos). What they do, just happens to resonate with some people, myself included. You're letting a single video and your expectations color your preconceptions, and it is leading you quite astray. What I am saying, is that their ineptitude here is not deliberate; it is natural, and very much in line how they've done things before in that project (and in Escargot).It is not about the result. It is about the doing, in a manner that satisfies their own hobby needs. The printed tracks on FR4 is just a prototyping method they developed, and are quite proud of. I don't like it at all, and it is pretty silly in my opinion, but when you consider their background and how they've tried to solve issues thus far, it is perfectly in character: not fan service, just what these guys really did. Inept? Definitely yes.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 10:13:39 pm
content: I'm concerned with the bonding to the substrate, and how well those eyelets get soldered. A good wet (fluxed) joint, heated somewhat over liquidus, will suck in and break shorts around it. They might (if perhaps notmust) be getting cold or dirty joints there -- solder glopped on, leads poorly wetted, dirt not pushed out of joints.But they don't document the process in detail here, intentionally I'm sure (partly in case there's information they want to protect, but if nothing else, it's boring and not germane to an already long video, that'll take even more editing, and etc...), and it may be that they have some mitigations for those. For example, pretinning the rivets helps with that; clean, brand new component leads are easier to tin; and they might've used lead-free for the traces, versus leaded for the pads, and the difference in MP makes it a bit easier to manage. They might've even used Bi or In based extra-low-melting solder for the joints, dunno. They did mention an adhesive undercoat, which helps with that, but an epoxy overcoat would double up by making proper tunnels for the solder -- once everything is settled in place, that is.Conductivity and all that, I have absolutely no problem with. Copper is way more conductive than needed for most purposes. Signal traces, small currents -- everything here is just doing lamps and sensors, no wiring is routed across it, voltage drop doesn't matter (or at least not very much), and the cross section ismuch much thickerthan you get on a PCB.Doing it this way, versus a confusing tangle of wires, forces neatness in design, and keeps the profile low -- a bad obsession, perhaps, but I...do I really have to say anything more?You can certainly do as good a job with wirewrap wire soldered point to point, taped down from time to time, but that's more pixie-wrangler-chic than they are used to. They may well have other purposes in mind for having developed the solder printing process -- or just wanted to play with something else for a few months and see if they can do it. It's not like the final product (the car) is something they're selling, to a client with expectations on quality and completion date; they can take all the time they want, for it or side projects, for professional development (maybe the proto process is something they'll reuse for future projects, not necessarily anything that makes it to YT), take your pick.Tim

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 10:47:59 pm
content: Me, I might have done things my usual way, with point-to-point wiring under perfboard; actually kind of like what these guys had proposed at first, which wouldn't have been much more work than their PSB (printed solder board).This technique tests my patience to the limit; basically wrapping wire around the protruding leads of through-hole parts (and constantly checking for shorts!). And yes, this does work (it's a display board with 7 seven-segment LEDs and their driver/counter chips).

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:13:41 am
content: I've done something similar, but instead of extruding those solder beads to make the wires, I actually used stripped single core copper wires*, pre-shaped with pliers into the shape of the track, and held in place initially by little dabs of glue. In fact I bet we've all done something similar to repair damaged tracks on a PCB. It also allows for decent soldered joints, unlike the extruded solder system.When complete, a thick layer of conformal coating keeps the "tracks" in place. It certainly takes longer to shape each "track" by hand compared to their solder printing machine, but of course you don't need to spend 18 months up front getting it to work.*From CAT5 Cable.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:19:44 am
content: just buy some thinner wire and i assure you that you won't need to check for shorts all the time.a 28 gauge wire is good for at least a ampground and power wires can be made biggertake a look at a modern PCB and see how thin the copper is and how small the traces are, you are torturing yourself with excessively heavy wire most likelyif your really frugal, get every gauge in 1 color and then get colored heat shrink to label the wire colors at the end. don't do it for a home code inspector but its one way to get the optimum prototyping setup at lower costthis way, electrically you will have more similar performance to a proper PCB from your prototype, because your design will have a realistic distribution of conductor sizes in it, ranging from very thin to thick.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 02:25:38 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 28, 2024, 01:13:41 amFunny, that's almost 'zactly what I did there; used salvaged CAT5 wire. Which turned out to be just a little bit too thick (24 AWG?) for comfort. Next time I'll use the 30 gauge wire-wrap wire I just got from Jameco (rainbow colors too!).And I ended up semi-potting the whole thing in liquid epoxy to keep everything in place and prevent shorts in all those connections. It didn't work at first when I tested it before the epoxy cured (dielectric effect?), but worked fine afterwards.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 02:35:54 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on October 28, 2024, 01:13:41 amWould be equally pointless... but perhaps fun, to do this with a cnc wire bender built for fine gauge wire. If it were a 3d one, you could even turn up "stubs" at each end to drop through holes as an anchor and via.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 12:45:38 pm
content: I'd really, really like to knowwhyandhowthey arrived at such a convoluted/odd approach at prototyping, though.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:03:09 pm
content: Probably the inspiration was from the method of making traces with solder+ultrasounds on a glass substrate:https://cecas.clemson.edu/~jbostwi/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/wtcb2021jmp.pdf

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:17:58 pm
content: All in all, I think their unorthodox method is pretty kewl, especially for admitted electronics amateurs. And I'm not sure why it's coming in for so much criticism here.After all, this is just aprototyping method, not a production one, so Binky isn't going to be bouncing down some dirt lane with solder traces falling off the PSB (printed solder board).I am curious about one thing that hasn't been mentioned: what exactly is that thing mounted in the CNC machine that delivers the bead of molten solder? Never heard of such a thing before; it must be a tiny furnace/retort, with a reservoir of molten metal. Pretty cool device there.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:33:07 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on October 28, 2024, 08:17:58 pmA 220°C hotend; similar to, but hotter than, 3D printer hotends. You can see the roll of plumbing solder above it (looks to be 3mm in diameter, 99% Sn).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:35:08 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 28, 2024, 08:33:07 pm3D printer hotends can go way hotter than that for more exotic plastics. Heck, 220C is only just above what is commonly used for PLA.

author: Sacodepatatas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:53:49 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 28, 2024, 08:35:08 pmI often use 260C for printing using my pulltruded PET filament (my printer is an "El Cheapo" Anet A8).

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 10:53:42 pm
content: I have seen it done using something like conductive paint or epoxy.I had a early Micronics (?) EISA 486 motherboard which used a Texas Instruments DIP cache module and discrete and programmable logic for the chipset that I think used some sort of printed PCB process. Visible traces on the top and bottom of the board were very thin, like wire thin, ran horizontally and vertically, and crossed each other.Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 27, 2024, 10:13:39 pmEyelets seem to be difficult to get right with any construction. I have repaired too many where thermal expansion causes one side to separate from the soldered connection.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 11:46:04 pm
content: can it be that brass eyelet are used instead of copper?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 04:38:33 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 28, 2024, 11:46:04 pmI have seen them both fail in the same way.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 07:58:07 am
content: Quote from: Sacodepatatas on October 28, 2024, 08:53:49 pmYes, for ABS you also need around 250°C. So that could be used with solder wire. Could be messy depending on the type of flux there is in the solder wire though, so probably needs proper selection.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 08:08:27 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on October 29, 2024, 04:38:33 amI have seen eyelets fail near a PCB mount transformer. I wonder if it was maybe the heat like your saying not the mass of the transformer.I thought their reliability was supposed to be superb if they are staked properly and soldered well. I wonder if maybe they don't get soldered good because its a mechanical component stored like screws that might be more tarnished then usual (the board is usually fresher) and it might not get soldered well enough. People might not treat it like a connectorI thought it would be better then a via because its normal copper.... I noticed that plated copper is not that great.But I did notice they don't flare out as much as I like, that is, the rolled side of the eyelet is always ALOT better then the staked side in terms of being solderable. Big lap joint vs weird cone thing. If you don't press them down enough they will still solder but its a far cry from a 'nice' lap joint like you get on top on the rolled side.But it does make me feel alot better given how much time and money i spent in trying to learn how to do electroplate vias, rather then just forgetting about it and regresing to eyelets hahaDid you ever see a turret terminal go bad? They are staked like eyelets. Not sure I ever ran into that, oddly enough. Could it be that people don't mess around with them, and stake them with the proper tools, wheras with eyelets they get creative with a center punch to save on a die? Or am I just lucky ?Because when I started with eyelets, I used my own BS tools to press them. When I got turret terminals, I thought that its pretty specific so I got all the right tools. If you try to get cheap with the, its easy to damage them.could it just be half assed staking? The tools are pretty expensive. I can totally see factory managers trying to hack that cost. Like zero doubt about it.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 08:59:53 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 29, 2024, 08:08:27 amI have never seen a turret terminal fail.The eyelet failures all seem to be caused by their thermal coefficient of expansion not matching FR4, so heat cycles make it worse. Maybe the difference is that turrets are not hollow? Although I do not know why that would help.A few times I have seen plated through holes fail in the same way.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 06:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 29, 2024, 07:58:07 amIn the video they mention that they are using solder wire without a flux core. I’m guessing that they tried regular flux-core solder and found it to cause some sort of problems.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 08:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on October 29, 2024, 08:59:53 amI also never really see those screw studs fail. They are often staked and soldered on older equipment, and I still recommend doing it on new stuff, its a higher quality bond then solder attach. They are kind of hollow. But not as flimsy as a eyelet.The solder on screw studs are either plated steel or brass. Not sure if I have run into aluminum ones that are soldered to the pCB. MAYBE some weird gear like hughes has this construction with aluminum (I think they like it), but its rare to run into it.The turret IS usually partially hollow in the base, I have not seen pure deformed ones (like pump shaft)I kind of wonder if there is some improper installations. Like if you forget the eyelet, so you solder it in, THEN stake it, because their kind of easy to have fall out of the board etc... a manufacturing hack

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 11:07:26 am
content: Nik and Richard of Bad Obsession Motorsport have released theHowie Did It-version, which does explain a bit more about it:

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 11:37:53 am
content: Thirty minutes of a 3D machine going back and forth. Did the solder stick well to the board? Were junctions to rivets electrically secure?The original version is shown as a bird's nest in a box, so I assume the answers to those questions are now yes, but I would like to see them demonstrated.

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 11:42:01 am
content: For guys that say they don't know electronics, by the end, they sure used a lot of custom assemblies including the custom hot end heater control. Quite decent stuff, but to be using Mach3, which needs a printer port, and the software lengths they went to, to create the PCB layout, sliced then hand edited the GCode for a 1 off prototype, let alone developing a truly unique but time consuming prototype PCB system, the effort expended for the result is astronomical, but also both amusing and entertaining. Would never attempt it but for some perverse reason I am glad they succeeded and posted the video.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 02:00:54 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 17, 2024, 11:37:53 amOnce again, it is just a prototyping tool, not manufacturing, or anything to be actually used while Binky is moving. They have said they'll get a PCB made as soon as they're happy with the layout (of the components, not of the traces).Quote from: moffy on November 17, 2024, 11:42:01 amSame here.The Inkscape to DXF to Slic3r path is particularly funny, because SVG paths are trivial to convert to Gcode:path data consists ofsingle-character commands followed by numeric coordinates. (Curves you need to interpolate and approximate with line segments; the hard part there is the algorithm optimizing the line segments used. Entire academic papers have been written on that subject.)

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 03:24:15 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 17, 2024, 02:00:54 pmIsn't that what the simplest CAD for electronics allow us to do?I didn't listen to every minute of the audio, but failed to hear that disclaimer. If it is being proposed as a "new way," then it's fair to ask them to demonstrate how well it works regardless of whether they plan to use it. Maybe someone skilled at EtchASketch could make a video of that "new way" to design a PCB?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 04:32:36 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 17, 2024, 03:24:15 pmNo. Getting something to work via the trial and error method –– iterative prototyping, if you will –– is quite different to proper design using proper tools.Quote from: jpanhalt on November 17, 2024, 03:24:15 pmNew way to do iterative prototyping, yes. They've already demonstrated it works."New" does not necessarily mean "better". It's easy for you to rag on them for doing things in a way that to you feels stupid, but let's face it:noneof what they do is intended as a guide for others to follow. They just document their own shenanigans. They're motorsport enthusiasts, not angry pixie wranglers. The entire idea of Binky –– stuffing the running gear of a Celica into a Mini –– is similarly silly, done not to get something better, but to see if an outrageous idea actually works.I don't understand how difficult this is to understand for some. Perhaps you have never done anything outrageous or silly, and seeing someone else do so, and get funded by patrons who don't even get a regular publishing schedule in turn, much less useful information, just entertainment, offends your sensibilities. If so, I suggest you too try it: it's actually quite liberating toplay, even as an "adult".

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 06:41:39 pm
content: QuoteIs that a nice way to say it's stochastic?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 07:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 17, 2024, 06:41:39 pmNo.Iterative prototyping is when you are not sure exactly what kind of result you want or need (or, rather, what will actually fit to the workflow best, or solve the problem at hand best, depending on human preferences), and want to try different things, or suspect you will need to adjust the design based on practical observations. I personally do simulate things a lot instead of iterative prototyping, but I still benefit from one or two rounds of subjecting some unsuspectingvictimuser to my design, and observing how they interact with it. (For myself, I don't even need interactive simulations anymore, and a simple image of the interface in correct real-life size suffices for me to tell whether it will work for me or not. I've described a method I prefer with small displays I user for interfacing to Linux SBCs and appliances like routers and NAS boxes, based on drawing the interface in Inkscape,here, recently.)Stochastic prototyping is to throw spaghetti at the wall, and see what sticks. To be precise, 'stochastic' implies a random process with normal distribution of results. My scientific background is in computational materials physics, or atomic and molecular simulations, so the difference between the two is quite important to me.In the case at hand, you have two motorsports enthusiasts, Richard (who I understand does the editing and ECU configuration and did the wiring on Binky) and Nik (who does the fabrication, and lots of brackets), who are demonstrably familiar with practical mechanical and metal fabrication –– they read the C in CAD as "cardboard" ––, approached PCB design and implementation from a weird angle, but one they already knew. Not only have they used the small CNC they have, but they've also built quite a few contraptions like the Binky rotissorie (that they swiped the Nema 23 stepper from). Designing things on computer is not their thing. At all.To me, the two videos are entertaining, because I find both Nik and Richard very likable –– "my sort of people" if you know what I mean ––, and also because their approach to problem-solving-for-fun is so different to mine. I do things very differently (except for brackets; I love me a good bracket), and don't see their videos as giving any advice on how things should be done; it is more like dudes showing and telling how they made some odd-but-fun contraption. In particular, I use EasyEDA for my public prototypes and ideas (here), so seeing this solder-printer thingy developed and used is like seeing someone climb up a tree butt first. (Which I've also seen done, but have zero intentions of emulating.)

author: timeandfrequency
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 11:11:28 am
content: Well, the track printer is funny, and it's also much work for a rather subpar result. To stick the tracks to the substate without any coating on top is not an easy story.The solder wire used in the printer must have a higher melting point than the solder used to connect the LEDs and other parts : you cannot solder a 'solder wire' with the same solderBen Krasnow devised an interesting and compelling combination of SLS additive manufacturing process with pulse laser drawn PCB tracks (buried or on top).

author: jbeng
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 04:54:51 am
content: They could have just placed a felt-tip marker pen (with waterproof ink) in the tool position of the CNC and used it to directly draw the circuit traces onto the copperclad PCB stock, then etch as normal.I've been doing a similar process for some years now using an ancient HP 7221T flatbed plotter I bought off FleaBay ($35 USD!) & have had great results with it.Most often, I make single-sided boards with it, but I have also made double-sided. I have had PCBs professionally manufactured as well, but for one-offs and proof-of-concept circuits, these work just fine for me.The main limitation I find is that the minimum trace width is dictated by the width of the pen tip; typically, traces are 0.015" / 0.38mm wide but tend to get slightly wider as the pen ages.Attached are photos of a couple of the many PCBs I've made over the years. The one was right after removing the ink post-etch, while the other has tin-coated traces to protect them.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 05:25:22 am
content: Looks great!