How to monetize source code ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 08:14:20 am
content: Hello,I don't really know in which category I should post this so I will try hereI have a new client who asked me to work on a prototype board to acquire sensors datas and to make It work on a their own custom Ethernet protocol.I have budgeted for a few days of work, It's relatively simple to quote.But they asked me for a separate quote with the supply of the microcontroller source code and a quote without.How do you put a price on that ?Thank you for your help

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 08:19:03 am
content: initial quote x 10 = quote with source code

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:28:36 am
content: Just like that !?Is it the industry standard ?Thank you

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:34:39 am
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on March 19, 2021, 08:14:20 amWithout source? Isn't that Weird? Although there might be some agreement on IP I am surprised you could ever be able to deliver based on a binary format only for such a project.

author: MIS42N
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:51:14 am
content: It sounds like they want a discount by taking just the object code. You Have to decide if there is an innovation or are you just knitting together standard modules. If it's standard, then you should charge full price and throw the source in for free. You can recreate it anytime. If it is innovative, give them a right to use per implementation, a right to modify, but retain ownership. If there is a wider market you can discount on expectation of further earning. If they want ownership then it becomes a "what the market will bear" decision, because you won't make anything more after the sale.I sold services on the basis of a reasonable return to me and gave the rights to the client. Bill Gates didn't. I'm comfortable and he's rich. Your choice.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:56:20 am
content: Doesn't happen often in my work, but if it does, I charge for the time to document it sufficiently that someone else can understand it.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 11:21:58 am
content: Same price? I quote based on labor required, if I have to spend weeks/months figuring out their protocol from spec, it's their expense either way. Maybe if they want to license it from me, it could be discounted, or on royalty, or other means, or some combination thereof; but that's not going to be of any value to you, for something "proprietary".The source might matter, if the terms allow that it can be reused (in part, or even in whole?) by you, in other projects; and so they are agnostic about what that source is (mind, not like it's impossible to tell from the compiled result) and can't worry about where else it may appear. Then, presumably, you retain the copyright to it and such, and there is some kind of license term to their use of the resulting compiled code -- this all needs to be stipulated in the contract.The simple fact that such a contract is that much more complicated than the usual work-for-hire contract, is good reason by itself to avoid doing it.Mind, even with such a contract, I still wouldn't discount the source much if at all -- being able to reuse parts of ones' work is a necessary part of contract work and I wouldn't sign anything that says otherwise.Also, maybe it might be only days to weeks of work, say they have working reference code; in which case, to some extent, they won't need the source because they already have it, and the point is again nearly moot.Maybe we/you/client are missing something, or misunderstanding something -- it doesn't seem like all that useful of a question, perhaps they don't understand the value (or lack thereof!) of source.Tim

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 12:52:00 pm
content: One key question to ask is, do they want to:a) OWN the source code, orb) Have the right to modify and use the source code to create derivative works from it, orc) Merely have access to it in order to understand how it works, trace bugs etc...?Normally I offer option (b) as part of my standard T&C's. It's a commercial decision; if I do a good job for a client, chances are they'll come back to me anyway if they want changes making, but having the code as part of the package offers them some confidence and protection just in case I were to do a bad job, or not be in business next time they need an update.I don't offer (a) without good justification and an extra fee, though. If the client ends up owning the source, then you can't re-use it yourself elsewhere (unless you insist on a licence to do so, but that can come with its own complications further down the line). I always make it clear to any client wanting (a) that I'll be starting with a completely blank page to avoid any issues regarding design re-use, and so anything I create will take longer and cost considerably more.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 02:38:57 pm
content: Hello !Thank you all for your answers.They are very useful to me.Obviously, you will have noticed that I don't know the standards.I have almost only large companies as clients and some of them I work with confidence and transparency have already communicated to me commercial proposals from "competing" companies that are completely absurd in terms of spent time and cost.Maybe my new client has already received offers in the past with or without included source code and so ask me to do the same.The project in question is very specific to their needs. I will not need to reuse this code for a competitor.It is a prototype to control their own production line.Owning the source code is a way to get someone to make a standard for them that can be reused in the future internally.It would be a shame not to take this opportunity to scratch a few euros and satisfy my fetishism for test equipment.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 08:48:20 pm
content: If you went to work for the client as an employee and wrote code for their widget, they would own it outright and you would have no rights at all.Why do you expect different terms as a consultant? You are working for pay by the hour, they are paying you for work by the hour (or perhaps by the project), they own the product.Now, if I include one of my own libraries, as a consultant, I need to deal with retaining the rights. This came up one time on a project where I took data from mag tape (!) and produced plots. The plotter library was mine, I already had it coded and I charged extra for their use. But I retained the rights to that library. The plot code that created the plots by calling the library was all theirs. They paid for it, they got the source.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 09:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 20, 2021, 08:48:20 pmBecause as a consultant you can work under whatever terms you specify, that are acceptable to the client.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 09:37:17 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 19, 2021, 11:21:58 amSomething along this lines indeed.In my terms & conditions I hand over the copyright of the code I wrote for the customer after they paid the invoice in full (this is very important!) and include a non-transferable license for the libraries (*). Until the invoice is paid the software is provided for testing & evaluation purposes only.IMHO whether the source is included or not should be the same price. I think it is weird for a company to have something developed by a third party and not become an owner of the copyright of the software they had me write.* Which are clearly marked as such.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 09:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 20, 2021, 08:48:20 pmThere is a very simple rule to follow here: if you work at the client's premises and write code according to their design then the copyright is their's. If you work at your own office and write the code following your own design then the copyright is yours. It is a common misconception that you own the copyright of software that you have written by a third party. That is not the case; transfer of the copyright -if requested /required- must be clearly defined.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 09:49:48 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on March 19, 2021, 09:34:39 amIts not uncommon to supply no code at all for MCU based projects. Development shops program the entire production run of MCUs themselves, lock the devices, and supply them to the factory. Its a PITA, because packages like QFPs you'll always get some extra bent legs from the extra handling steps, but its one way to stop manufacturers ripping off independent development engineers.