MIDI organ pedals - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 12:44:26 pm
content: Hi,I like to show off my MIDI organ pedals I build this year O0You can say that I initially build it just because I was too cheap to buy one of these.Since I'm rather a software guy this was kind of my first project where I build up a circuit which is a bit more complicated than just connecting a bulb to a power source.Playing around with the micro controller stuff really aroused my interest in doing a bit more electronics so I build up a small lab during the last six months....just watch the videos about this project if you like:Complete playlisthttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjUbKCHhzPEz8-heBN130AVvVgHStO5b6I will add some more detailed videos about the electronics of the device in upcoming weeks. It's just very time consuming to cut them.Implementing the MIDI interface isn't really complicated since it's simple UART which is build in the MCU.You can get the source code (ATMega cpp) for the whole device and a strip of the MIDI code from my homepagehttp://electro.bitluni.net/midiI hope this encourages people to just build stuff themselves even it seems to be complicated they don't know how it works yet.Cheers!

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 01:28:43 pm
content: Quote from: bitluni on October 18, 2013, 12:44:26 pmNice!!! Thanks for sharing.Lol, too cheap? I've been eyeing a set of MIDI organ pedals for a while, but any decent will cost upwards of $2500, so I've been on the fence.I have an RD300 stacked above my newer RD700, on top of that, practically all of J.S. Bach in sheet music form.I wanna play fugue and toccata in d-minor with pedals; badly.When I get back from travelling, I think it's time to head to the lumber store :-)

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 18, 2013, 01:28:43 pmyou seem to be a total pro compared to me ...I'm just an enthusiast loving the sound:http://youtu.be/L8HSj5ty-akIn the next weeks I will add another video pointing out the flaws of the mechanical design I have used.. it's still too noisy. Have some ideas how to avoid that.The electronics of the device are good as they are right now. I would totally keep the hall effect sensor approach. Even you might not want velocity or polyphonic after touch, you still can use the analog value to adjust the sensitivity per pedal. It's anatomically harder to press outer pedals than the inner ones if you are not going for a complicated curved shape of the device.Keep me updated if you build one!

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 09:47:53 pm
content: Pro? Naw. I started out with a Yamaha CS-2X (61 keys iirc) and a full sized "weighed" cheap midi keyboard came later.At that point I realised I could play organ music without my hands either having to phase through each other or having to modify the score.Much later in life I purchased a Roland RD300NX because I couldn't stand how bad my playing had become and wanted a real hammer-action keyboard. I shelved the CS2X because I mostly use "Reason" for production and synthesis and kept the s****y MIDI keyboard as my second keyboard.On and off I've produced music and done post-production audio work, nothing commercial except for a couple tunes I produced for friends' video projects. I'm a hack at best.Right now I'm in a band as the Keyboardist (rock and blues covers), and shortly after we got together I upgraded to a Roland RD700NX because I got sick of playing utterly crapping action on one keyboard and beautiful action on the other.My skill level in the keys is probably mediocre at best.Thanks again, I look forward to your next videos. I think I am going to attempt to build a pedal board and am pretty grateful to have a working design to start from!I think I would like aftertouch and velocity sensitivity. We don't have a bassist, so I fill in where needed. Once I have a pedalboard, I'm sure the boys will expect me to keep up baselines with my feet (hey, frees up my left hand ;p)Only question

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 12:47:02 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 18, 2013, 09:47:53 pmEveryone likes some hammer-action. I was also considering about that, but it was too risky to spent load of money and just a week later something else would catch my attention and it would just end up as another dust catcher in the corner. I went for an cheap-ass semi-weighted M-Audio Axiom 61 master keyboard. This would be enough for my experiments. Hammer-action isn't even wanted for playing organs, since they originally don't have any hammers.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2013, 07:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: bitluni on October 21, 2013, 12:47:02 pmYeah, it depends on your needs. I'm no organist, but have played piano for a long time. When I was without access to a real piano I would sit down at someone's piano and be all messed up because I wasn't used to the action. I'd say the RD300 and the RD700's graded hammer action are pretty much perfect but some pro's would probably disagree.

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 12:56:23 pm
content: Hey,Just finished the next part of the series. I initially planned to create one video covering all boards, but I realized this would be impossible since I have like 6h of raw material.This vid covers like 4h of this material so I expect the rest to fit in one other vid the next days. Some quick shots on the theoretical parts and code will follow.I hope this vid also shows how a regular learning process with lots of trials and errors happens.Have fun watching it!http://youtu.be/wIU9GGMfwNQ

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 02:13:49 pm
content: Nice, these look great. Are you hooking them up to your computer or do you have some kind of MIDI organ? I have also been building a pedal board, not for MIDI but to hook up to a chest of organ pipes.

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 05:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: minibutmany on October 27, 2013, 02:13:49 pmI am currently using them just as midi input for my pc, where I am running a nice organ sound font. To hook it up to real pipes would be best of course, but I don't have any space here for the huge pipes as needed for the low spectrum.But I still have something similar on my project list. I've bought already 50 strong solenoids for like 4 octaves and plan to build either a marimba or a pvc pipe like percussive instrument. The only thing detains me from starting to build it are the missing mosfets I ordered 8 weeks ago in chinaStill have to do loads of other projects first, so no rush there.Do you have any online documentation on your pedals and pipes?

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 11:20:39 pm
content: I have a youtube video describing some early experiments with pipes. It doesn't show any pedals though. I have made another video that I will upload soon.

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 05:38:06 am
content: Quote from: minibutmany on October 27, 2013, 11:20:39 pmReally impressive work! looking forward to see more from you

author: DJ_EAS3
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 05:53:21 am
content: Very nice! I'm just starting to dabble in the world of midi.Coding is not my strength tho.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 01:49:30 pm
content: Thanks all for sharing!!!This is the pedalboard I've been on the fence about for a couple years:http://www.midiworks.ca/index.php/products/details/145/2/pedalboards/classic-ago-midi-pedalboardI'm now committed to sc***ing that and building my own.I'm thinking of using extruded aluminium for most of the frame and as much of the pedals as possible. Any thoughts or gotchas anyone can think of?

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 01:55:35 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 28, 2013, 01:49:30 pmP.S. Still going to use wood for the pedal surfaces. Would a soft wood like pine suffice or do you think they will take too much of a beating? If not, was thinking of maple.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 01:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 28, 2013, 01:49:30 pmP.S. Still going to use wood for the pedal surfaces. Would a soft wood like pine suffice or do you think they will take too much of a beating? If not, was thinking of maple.

author: vtkkorhanjoh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 03:00:00 pm
content: Unless you are going to step on them while carrying an elephant, Pine will easily suffice! Just make sure that when depressed they will hit something smooth like a relatively thin foam padding or something similar instead os a direct collision with one of the sharp edges of an aluminium profile. The only wood i wood (haha) not recomend would be balsa! Maple does look nicer though, but that's just my opinion. By the way, its much cheaper to use wood everywhere than using the aluminium extrusions. Wood is just simpler to nail, screw, glue, etc. to, the only real advantages with aluminium is conductivity and weight savings! (and not very much)

author: minibutmany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2013, 10:55:26 pm
content: Thanks you for the compliment. I was having the same thoughts about the aluminum. I would imagine pine getting scratched in the long run, especially if you accidentally drop something on it such as a music book. Pine key bodies covered in a maple top would work fine. This website shows the construction of a wood pedalboard:http://www.rwgiangiulio.com/construction/pedalboard/Something to keep in mind would be hinges and springs. The brass hinges and wire springs as shown are ideal. A common axle is fine but tends to be a bit noisy and needs to be lubricated.

author: vtkkorhanjoh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 01:04:45 am
content: If you can get maple veneers and have a planer or good sander, go with it! If not, Standard pine would probably work great with just some hard laquer. Unless your music books have a steel cover or you intend no dropping them 20.000 times, the pine shoud hold up easily!You could of course try helical springs in slots, that would probably fix the squeaking! The single-plate hinges look excellent to me, but if the squeaking is still too bad, try a piano hinge!

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 08:08:18 am
content: Quote from: vtkkorhanjoh on October 28, 2013, 03:00:00 pmThanks for the advice!I agree, in fact I'm still considering just using wood. The weight savings could come into play as I still have delusions of gigging with the thing. I'd have to make or modular too.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 08:36:23 am
content: Quote from: minibutmany on October 28, 2013, 10:55:26 pmThanks! I haven't yet started thinking about noise, but it definitely has to be addressed.I think I'll have to prototype a few key bodies.The local Rona (well, when I get back home from travelling) has a good selection of veneers. I've got a nice sheet of oak veneer, but it's been delegated to a study desk for my SO ^^'I might still just go with stained pine sealed with shellac or varathane.Instead of hinges, I'm thinking of rollerblade bearings on individual axles. Not sure what to do wrt springs. Part of me wants to try and use neodymium magnets, I know it sounds like over-design and fraught with caveats, and it probably is.

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2013, 02:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 29, 2013, 08:36:23 amIt's always nice to dream how perfect you could make your device, but going for some prototypes of key bodies is definitively the best and if they work out you could think about veneers.Your thoughts about using aluminum frame are good since it's really rigid, but it might be lot of work at the end with lots of screws and you also have take in account, that all the threads has to take some mechanical stress etc.Since you are eager to start making and I'm not ready with a conclusion video I give you the hints in textual form:Wood is at least best choice for prototyping, but I would recommend using fine grained and really long seasoned wood too be sure I keeps its shape. Take the grain alignment into account since the longer the piece the more it will extrude bend or even twist with changing humidity. Even perfectly measures and manufactured you pedals might stuck at the end.Noise is the biggest problem I have with my pedals. I didn't think about that at the beginning. I would recommend to build the pedals as light as possible and just as durable as needed. Inertia really matters at this scale. Lighter pedals also allows you to play faster if you like. That's why I also liked the idea with aluminum pedals with some wood on top.The springs has to be scaled correctly. They has just be strong enough to push/pull up the pedals with some margin to wear out. If they are too strong the will thrust the pedals against the upper damping and cause noise. The damping has to good enough. Felt or leather might be sufficient.. I tried to mold conic silicone stoppers which work well, but they shrink after the molding and I didn't have time to address this yet.Your roller blade bearings idea is also good, since the aren't that expensive and it will keep at least his part silent. I'am also planning to use them for my robot arm project (which will be molded from aluminum)Individual axles are nice, since you use an arbitrary order for the pedals like an arc and with different levels, but consider it to be a lot more work.Will you build a full scale one like that one form the link above or one with short keys?No matter what you do plz document your work. I can't wait to see the result

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 06:28:56 am
content: Thanks bitluni, I'll definitely share my progress. Hopefully you'll continue to be around!

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2013, 01:52:35 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 31, 2013, 06:28:56 amOf course I will!I will start with the robot hand project after this MIDI video series. I guess I might need some hints from the pros hereBtw next vid is online:http://youtu.be/QdB0fBFc1KYBeware of the knotholes!

author: bitluni
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2013, 02:32:34 pm
content: Final electronics assembly and debugging:http://youtu.be/WHZhv_QmAhkVideo about the flaws of my device that I mentioned in an earlier post:http://youtu.be/XdZJKRx825cexplanations how to handle a hall effect sensor and send midi messages using an micro controller will follow soon.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2013, 07:40:38 am
content: Thanks so much again for sharing. Can hardly wait until I'm back home and can get started!I'll definitely share my experiences on this thread. It really helps to know the gotchas that have effected others beforehand, I'm sure I'll encounter plenty on my own.Also, thanks for the advice for handling the wood in this project, I'm halfway decent with woodworking and have good tools but you definitely have much more experience than I do, thanks for sharing it!