Hakko Wire Stripper Frustration - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 08:21:41 pm
content: I'm currently after a Hakko FT-801 electronic wire stripper. I have scoured the Hakko site only to discover that this product is available in every market except Oceania, namely Australia. Does anyone know as to why Hakko do not offer this product here in Australia.I'm keen to hear advice from others on an equivalent product that is available here. I'm a little perplexed as to why so many things are not available here. I'm interested if the collective knowledge is aware of alternative sources that will allow me to access this product ...... very frustrating.Thanks in advance for any advire or direction to an alternative that is actually purchasable in Australia.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 08:26:46 pm
content: I have seen that before. It struck me as a triumph of technology over design. Spending $300 to do a $10 job. Really?I can imagine that in a production environment where someone needs to strip a wire once every second for 8 hours a day this device might come into its own. But then purchasing it would be no issue--a business would be buying several of them and could no doubt get them on special order.But for an individual in the home workshop? Is it really useful?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 08:41:54 pm
content: Quote from: IC on March 10, 2012, 08:21:41 pmThat could be a patent thing. Hakko doesn't sell some soldering iron tips in some markets because of patents. It might be the same with the wire stripper. Or it could just be that some MBA' Excel sheet says they won't make enough money in Australia.BTW, there are studies that approximately 80% of business Excel sheets have serious errors.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 09:58:02 pm
content: Perhaps purchasing it from another country, and getting any other odds/ends needed to make it work (i.e. step-down transformer if sourced from the US, different plug if it has a 220V/50Hz transformer)?

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 10:09:13 pm
content: Yep Opinions are like arseholes... we all have one, but as to the wire strippers even if I had an unlimited budget I wouldn't buy one when a good pair of manual strippers work as well for a fraction of the cost.Maybe I'm just a tightwad. Enjoy your new found wealth but temper it with reason and you won't go to far wrong...lucky bugger!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 10:37:09 pm
content: Thanks FreeThinkerYes you are right, manual strippers are great, however on very fine wire it's hard not to nick the strands. Possibly this is just a folly rather than a prudent decision, however, if it solves a problem then the investment is vindicated.Yes I thank my wife every day, life hasn't changed much, just a new house, new car (only one) ..... and best of all a new lab .... that part is beyond awesome. If you ever find yourself in the situation of buying a Rohde & Schwarz .... tread carefully ..... lots of menus, lots of options, lots to get lost in. I find myself working on a project then skipping it in preference to playing with the scope. The reality is that this is what all scopes should be. I'm luck to be in the position of owning one now, spoilt ... yes. Sometimes I sit in awe of this machine .... it seems to be the folly of men who have developed a machine beyond our needs or capabilities ..... it is beyond description .... some days it frightens me .....Manual is ok and be the preferred option, however I'm keen to trial the Hakko, if it's good I'll do a post .... on the proviso that I can get one .... living in hope that I can get one or something similar .... regards

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 12:02:28 am
content: Hey .... FreeThinker ..... my wife's a millionaire, I'm not, though I'm lucky I married her.Thanks for the suggestion ..... Life certainly is different, retired asap, teaching 'reading recovery' at the local school, now volunteer bus driver for pick up and drop off at a school for the disabled .... plus time to give to electronics in a serious way.Sadly Hakko only talk to Billionaires or people who own small countries with lots of oil ..... bugger.As Einstein said ... "It's all relative" ...... like the golden rule of arts and sciences .... "Those who have the gold make the rules" ... ceteris paribus

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 12:39:06 am
content: I ain't no hero but I know my way around the Aus goods and their extravagant prices LOL! Actually prices has gone down a little buy still hell a lot cheaper in the states and Asia.Contact Mektronics in Melbourne. Make sure you talk to the oldest wise man there, because he's the owner and the person who worked very hard in the 80s to introduce Hakko to Aus market. He might be able to help you if you insist on buying local.I am curious why Hakko stripper? There are other brands.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 12:42:50 am
content: I'm sure if you can find a reputable seller in a 240V equipped country, there'll be a member here willing to organise getting one to you.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 01:03:27 am
content: Nukie, why HAKKO you ask, the reason was that when we moved house and lab I decided to update all my equipment. In doing this I agonised about lots of brands, their pros and cons. In the end Hakko were available locally, lots of people use their gear and seemed a better option than Metcal, Pace, Thermaltronics .... lots of cutting edge technology in the latter but when things go wrong frustration sets in.Japanese usually means well made, longevity and good support through a well backed dealer infrastructure.Borrowed an ex work colleagues Metcal .... the Curie principal was great for a few days, then an intermittent problem, then random shutdowns. Less than confidence inspiring. I have used Hakko in the past, good performance and never missed a beat. Now using an FM206, all in one box, works every time.Other brands suffer the same shortcomings, yes I'm aware of them .... but. I'll give Mektronics a go ... thanks for the information.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 05:08:07 am
content: Quote from: IC on March 10, 2012, 09:40:42 pmWow...chip on your shoulder much?I didn't call you a fool or tell you not to get one, I merely questioned the utility of such a wildly over-engineered mouse trap to the average person.Forums like these are places for lively discussion about interesting topics. If you are not able to tolerate the cut and thrust of lively debate, maybe the internet is not the place for you?In case you are interested, yes I can afford one, yes it would make a cute toy, and no I don't intend to buy one.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 06:59:34 am
content: Quote from: IC on March 11, 2012, 01:03:27 amThe thermal strippers have been around for a long time,since the 1970s.When I was first introduced to High Reliability Hand Soldering,they had several set up for the course.Telecom Aust used to do a lot of in-house Phone refurbishment then,possibly that was why they recommended it in the course.If I remember correctly,the ones they had were from Pace,or Royel (Aust. company),so there may be a number of companies that make them.With the Hakko one,possibly you could take your wife to the UK,or Germany on a "Second Honeymoon",& pick up a 240V one there!

author: cybergibbons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 07:50:27 am
content: They aren't always a gimmick. For soldering cable assemblies with thin multicore cables with PTFE insulation, there is no other way to strip the wires without either nicking or causing the cross section of the core to reduce. All cable assemblies in aircraft and spacecraft, and a lot of the higher end telecoms gear will be prepared using these. Imagine connecting up a 100-way cable and slicing through one strand toward the end!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 09:58:22 am
content: Quote from: george graves on March 11, 2012, 06:42:56 amThe solution would be to ban a good portion of the membership. it is blatantly obvious that the "status" shown on ones username merely reflects the amount of posts made by the member. To assume anything else is silly and the karma thing was abandoned long ago because people were found to be not mature enough to handle it. There is a tendency however for people to feel that after being on the board for so long and and made so many posts they can do and say as they please. One such member has already been banned and others can happily follow. but on the plus side you can ignore threads you do not like the tone of and the thread will soon die out. feeding it and moaning about it is a contradiction.There is one thing that cannot be controlled and that is peoples attitude.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 10:23:10 am
content: Quote from: george graves on March 11, 2012, 10:16:05 amI can't change people. I can only delete inappropriate posts and ban people, if someone is a jerk I can't change that. my attitude is not like it or leave but be realistic. Ignore the shit stirring and if your part of the politically correct brigade then I can help you taking offence at 80% of what people say.In the case of this thread i think an equal amount of mud has been thrown from both sides so I think it would be unfair to "moderate" either, both can stand proudly making fools of themselves !

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 10:36:10 am
content: I left the electro-tech forum because it was full of nastiness, it was not a nice place at all with quite few moderators who did most of the mud throwing. I don't set the tone of the forum it sets itself. It used to be a much nicer place but then there were a fraction of the members. The original intention of this forum was for freedom of speech. Unfortunately people are not mature enough for that. So what do you expect me to do about it. moderating is not as simple as deleting one post, in this case I'd just delete the whole thread. what would you do if you were trying to moderate this thread ?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 10:50:09 am
content: Quote from: cybergibbons on March 11, 2012, 10:44:56 amyep I know and I have had to delete a number of posts he made lately and so has Dave,

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 11:25:42 am
content: The problem with blogs, irrespective of their construct and audience is that you will always get people who are inappropriate and enjoy the moral high ground of anonymity.On the whole I enjoy this blog and the good camaraderie shown by its members. I believe that people truly wish to help and support one another. Sadly and possibly naively I though that sharing some personal information would be handled with a lot more maturity, obviously not. One shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, so I will persue my membership of such. However, I call upon the moderators to curb the inane immaturity of some. My initial post was about a wire stripper, I had expected some lively debate on wire strippers. Sadly the posts became a slip into the mire, a waste of most peoples time.Some responses did make me smile and some were genuine in nature. Although my circumstances have changed I'm even busier in retirement, giving back to the community. Yes the trip to Europe sounds good, however, commitments, like everyone preclude me from this option.Thank you to all who have offered the genuine advice, greatly appreciated.What has and is happening is a debate on appropriateness and respect for others who may or may not find themselves in a better position.I thought that the crux of the whole thing was Electronics and its various incarnations .... well that's what I look for when I log on.Thank you to Simon, CyberGibbons, George Graves, vk6zgo, sound like some of you are equally miffed by the inappropriateness of others. Please do not expose yourself through the blog, it may be at the cost of others derision.Now, was someone talking about a HAKKO FT-801 wire stripper, or is there better alternatives. Yes I'm working with some PTFE wire and a wire I have never seen before (brought in by a friend from America, a present of sorts) it has PEEK shielding, some fancy plastic that meets medical standards .... never look a gift horse in the mouth ....

author: cybergibbons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 11:33:21 am
content: The ones used in a production facility I worked in were Meisei Hotweezers I think:http://www.series4.co.uk/prodeqpt/section01/ds5.htmSeriously expensive!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 12:09:55 pm
content: If/when you get one, please do a review!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 02:52:52 pm
content: Somebody talked about this and it's time i harped about ithttp://patcoinc.net/PTS-10.htmlWell it's a wire stripper , it's expensive because it's demand is low .Yes , the base looks like everything a analog soldering station does , the wire stripper ? Nothing much better then a glorified soldering iron with a melted insulation puller . Too bad if silicone is untouchable you still have to fall back to your wire strippers .Sadly the Patco is a 120V item , expensive for something so small , and it's only 200C , some wires won't even budge .

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 04:50:07 pm
content: Personally, I don't understand being negative about people owning or wanting to buy better tools. Tools are probably the most personal thing there is when it comes to how we work (especially at the hobbyist level) and they're like opinions - no right or wrong ones exist. The only exception to this rule would be when working to some spec - then your tools rightly come under scrutiny

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 05:23:53 pm
content: Not disputing the nicety of the thermal strippers at all, l but I have these Knipex for the teflon, fep, silicone, etc insulation.Yes they are crazy expensive but the build quality and function of these warrants the price (and I can afford it).http://chadstoolbox.com/121202knipex78inchtefloninsulationstrippers.aspxI also have these Knipex which are very handy for all other stripping. Super quick and no adjustment for wire size.http://chadstoolbox.com/1242195knipex775inchuniversalinsulationstripper-awg7-32.aspxFor more detail on these the PDF of the Knipex catalog is herehttp://chadsdownloads.com/pdf/KNIPEX-Catalogue_en.pdf

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 06:21:22 pm
content: And the biggest problem is , there isn't anything remotely resembling a thermal stripper here in my town !Nobody's actually too interested in electronics to have a electronics lab at home ! ( Well , if i were to say nobody , don't throw me into the equation )And i'm not english or american or australian . Just a SG Chinese . Yes that .And i don't know how to speak chinese so expect to sound more like a Irish man with a smoker's voice .

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 07:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: PetrosA on March 11, 2012, 04:50:07 pmI don't think anyone here has a problem with someone wanting better tools. The issue is that until cybergibbons posted a good reason for their existence, this tool looked like a sledge hammer being marketed for killing ants. Even with cybergibbons' post, I still cannot justify the purchase, even if I had the money. Not when there are perfectly good strippers on the market for a fraction of the cost.Ultimately, I think this whole thread is about showing off what someone has and/or can buy, rather than a constructive post about better tools. It is like if I (an electronics hobbyist) were to buy a 4GHz scope. The only reason I would have in doing so is bragging rights. In other words, it's ego. Hence the "animated" discussion.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 07:46:35 pm
content: ^This is what i call a good post .I don't think i really need a thermal stripper . Really .

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 09:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: george graves on March 11, 2012, 06:42:56 amFor the record, I saw nothing wrong with Ian's post, and an overly sensitive response on the part of the OP.As much as I don't like to do it, I think the best solution here is to simply delete all posts that are not on topic, lest the situation get more inflamed.I like people to lead by example on the forum, and try not to take any obvious baitAs for the topic at hand. I wonder if the OP has considered safety? Burning wire strippers are IMO, not the safest devices in terms of fumes. I wouldn't like to be melting PVC all the time in a typical small enclosed lab area for example. Yes, they can be convenient, but I personally wouldn't use them unless it was a proper production environment with adequate ventilation and/or fume extraction.Dave.

author: Kilroy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 09:55:42 pm
content: Digikey Oz has this wee rig...http://search.digikey.com/au/en/products/PTS-30/PTS-30-ND/102961Takes up way less space and available in a battery operated version...no cord to drag stuff off one's bench. That can never be a bad thing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 10:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on March 11, 2012, 10:23:10 amI would tend to agree,. But in this case I have decided to simply delete all off-topic posts, so as not to pollute the thread any more and remove the fuel from the fire.I don't want to get into the habit of deleting posts, as I hate heavily "moderated" forums, so hopefully this serves as an example of what happens whena) someone posts an over-sensitive response to an otherwise normal post that had no malicious intent.and b) someone is then lured into responding to a)And therein starts the vicious cycle.The moral of the story, don't take thing too seriously. Have a laugh instead of taking offence to something.Or best of all, simply ignore something you didn't like and post good content.Dave.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 12:21:42 am
content: Handheld units will not hold up well in an industrial setting where repetitive jobs is required.For PTFE cables, some wire manufacturers recommend manual wire stripper hand tools. Best is to contact the manufacturer for a suitable recomendation.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 12:57:23 am
content: Quote from: nukie on March 12, 2012, 12:21:42 amI use these Knipex 121202 on tefllon and silicone and they are very nice as I mentioned in a earlier post. Expensive at $157.70 (Chads toolbox) list is $199.10 i think they are worth it. Here is the catalog page pdf

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 01:47:39 am
content: i saw some of those hot tweezers at the hamfest in orlando for peanuts. i thought they were for surface mount chip removal. silly me.-sj

author: kd7eir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 06:39:04 am
content: Nothing at all wrong with wanting to use a particular tool for a job. The use of a particular tool is certainly a very personal choice.What I am amazed about is the fact that so many things are not available in Australia. Being an American I never thought about that sad state of affairs.And then to hear of the ridiculous prices that are charged for items in the rest of the world compared to the US. And it's not even the fault of the greedy American companies.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 10:29:52 am
content: Quote from: kd7eir on March 12, 2012, 06:39:04 amIt's all to do with the size of the potential market.Back in the day,a local manufacturer or an importer could sell enough of a special device to large Government & private organisations who did a lot of handwiring of Comms equipment,for instance,to make it worthwhile,& hobbyists,etc could "ride along on their coat tails",as far as being able to buy the gear.These large organisations have largely been gutted of their technical capacity,& technological change has removed the necessity to terminate thousands of connections,so for those that are done,fairly effective alternatives,have been found.Even if intensive hand soldering had still been the norm,manufacturing in this country is only a shadow of what it was in,say,the 1960s,so that market has all but gone.Although the same thing has happened in the USA,the larger population there gives importers the incentive to bring in equipment,the sales of which,are quite large in absolute terms (although low as a percentage of population),so they can sell stuff cheaper.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 11:13:25 am
content: Quote from: Dave.S on March 11, 2012, 02:52:52 pmFrom your link:QuoteI'm not so sure about that... even small droplets of molten solder are not something I wouldn't mind touching.Quote from: EEVblogHaving really hot things around is also a bit hazardous, I think you'd have to handle these with the same amount of care as a soldering iron.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 11:28:50 am
content: Does it actually burn the plastic? I don't know much about these tools, but I'd imagine they'd be warm enough to melt plastic but not burn them, which is a big difference IMO.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 12:01:15 pm
content: After seeing this video:I like the Knipex manual strippers even better. I thought you could put the wire anywhere in the blades of the thermal stripper which would make it quicker than the manual stripper. But now that I see you have to line it up with the proper size hole it is no benefit other than guaranteed nick free stripping. The Knipex has a plastic guide that aligns the wire with the cutter grooves so you only need to pick the right slot, you don't have to visually align the wire with the cutter. And there is no temperature setting, you could go from pvc to Teflon to silicone to fep and back instantly. The trick to these is don't think you need to use the exact cutter size for the conductor, the next size up strips just as well and does not nick any wires. the first red wire is teflon and the second is thinwall silcone. FWIWpics of the cutters

author: siliconmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 03:07:58 pm
content: best wire stripper i have is a cigarette lighter

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 07:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: siliconmix on March 12, 2012, 03:07:58 pmI concur ! Of course .

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 10:58:33 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on March 12, 2012, 12:01:15 pmHow are the blades holding up?I ask, as I've looked at a similar pair (12 12 06; different range of wire size and no plastic wire position tab) vs. some of the self-adjusting cartridge types, and don't want to be stuck replacing blades (~$68USD per set) all that often. I presume the Knipex are more durable (based on experience with Ideal Stripmaster's), but I'm not sure.So any information would be helpful. Thanks.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2012, 11:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 12, 2012, 10:58:33 pmI have not done enough to tell yet but since they are hardened and tempered blades and they only cut the insulation I think a long time.I have used these other Knipex a lot (over 3000 strips) and they are way handier if you are doing normal insulation. they still cut like new. I highly recommend thesehttp://chadstoolbox.com/1242195knipex775inchuniversalinsulationstripper-awg7-32.aspx

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2012, 02:12:21 am
content: Some insulation will stretch or tear,instead of strip with conventional strippers of any kind,& that is where the thermal strippers are useful.Having to do all sorts of preliminary stuff is not important in a situation where a process worker is stripping hundreds of wires to a standard length ,to be passed on to the next worker,who does the actual soldering work.That said, I seem to remember the Pace (Royel?) units being quite easy to use.They may have been the same as the Hakko,but time,(& senility) has dimmed the memory.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2012, 07:04:40 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 13, 2012, 02:12:21 amActually a side cutter can cut silicone or teflon wire although it will stretch and tear , you can cut 'till there is left a little bit of wire after the stretching , using a needle nose to pull out the remnants but this method cannot net you a standard length , but yeah .

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2012, 11:56:51 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 13, 2012, 02:12:21 amThis particular Knipex design is specifically for form-fit stripping of difficult-to-remove insulating materials suchas Teflon®, silicone, Radox®, Kapton® and rubber; multilayer too. It has two sets of fully enveloping blades. The insulation is not gripped at all. The blade pairs together cut through the insulation full circle. then the blades pairs separate forcing the insulation to break even if not cut completely to the conductor. There may be something out there that these would fail on but from what I have seen on very thin wall silicone and Teflon i have tried so far they are the ticket.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2012, 02:18:50 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on March 12, 2012, 11:40:17 pmI've looked at those and similar (i.e. Pressmaster Embla <rebadged as Wiha and Xcelite>, Wiedmueller Stripax <badged as Paladin in the US>). Tad cheaper (~$30 based on the Pressmaster) with a Teflon cartridge, but offer fewer wire gauges for the harder insulation types (28 - 18AWG). Hard decision as I don't know the longevity of the Embla cartridges (or similar).The 12 12 06 just seemed a bit more convenient in the end (fewer tools to reduce clutter), offer a bit more value (covers 26 -10AWG vs. 28 - 18AWG for harder insulation), and suspect it to be more durable as well (could be totally wrong on this). Guess I'll have to be a guinea pig and find out.