Apple unveils $5000 Pro Display - $1000 extra for the stand - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 07:26:45 pm
content: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/06/05/apples-1000-computer-display-stand-mocked/1350088001/https://gizmodo.com/how-ridiculous-is-apples-1-000-monitor-stand-really-1835237372

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 07:35:31 pm
content: I think I would take a couple Surface Studios instead. Well, you can almost get two for the price of one monitor+stand. Granted, I have no desire to buy either really.Surface Studio 2

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 07:56:33 pm
content: Compare that to Dell offering 8K IPS for under 4 grand including the stand. You can add in the 2080Ti you'll need to get the most use out of it and still end up cheaper.I'll wait until 60" or bigger 8K displays are under a grand, then I might consider upgrading. By then, hopefully an open source deep learning upscaler and a GPU to run it on will be ready.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 08:19:10 pm
content: Stands on my 30" monitors can do/did exactly the same thing and did cost about the same as just this stand, and the oldest one I had was bought in 2007. Also they don't have a drawback that distance to display changes when regulating height. Not to say there are much cheaper monitors with stands which are not any worse. BTW minimum height is way too high for such big display.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 08:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 05, 2019, 07:56:33 pmThe idea is that this is a "studio quality" monitor to take on ones like Dave tore down, that are $10-30k. That dell has: 1300:1 Contrast Ratio, 400 cd/m² Brightness, not even comparable to theapple display.But yeah the stand and how they unveiled it was ridiculous.. The design doesn't even seem good either, if you raise the monitor up then it will move toward you. Typically with a good monitor stand you raise or lower the monitor, and the horizontal distance to the user does not change.edit: wraper beat me to it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 08:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 05, 2019, 08:21:50 pmThat contrast ratio is BS, as it's dynamic junk I would never use. Also that maximum brightness is not something you can look at without straining your eyes.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 09:10:46 pm
content: The Apple monitor competes with devices like Eizo's CG3145 (https://www.eizo.com/products/coloredge/cg3145/), which retail for $30k. Whether it stands up to them or not, no idea.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 09:52:23 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 05, 2019, 08:29:15 pmIt has a 576 LED local dimming array, so no its not "dynamic junk".There are better technologies Linus showed off with multiple LCD panels in series to control the LED dimming even better, which approach OLED in terms of contrast ratio, but I'm not sure if this has it. The Eizo CG3145 that was linked by Kane appears to have something similar:QuoteI personally don't care about peak brightness, but as I said, its really not for consumers its for professionals.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:23:36 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 05, 2019, 09:52:23 pmIt's too low to adjust brightness without compromising picture. Uses other than compensating for brightness non-uniformity, are mostly a gimmick. It's fine to use that for TV but not for professional use at close viewing distance.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:29:01 pm
content: The stand costs a grand? I guess that makes it a grandstand.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:43:07 pm
content: https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Monitors/ProArt-PA27UCX/27" has 576 zoneshttps://www.asus.com/ca-en/Monitors/ProArt-PA32UCX/32" has 1000 zoneshttps://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/dell-ultrasharp-27-4k-hdr-monitor-up2718q/apd/210-amvp/monitors-monitor-accessoriesdell 27" 384 zonesCG3145 is using the light-modulated cells:https://www.anandtech.com/show/11286/eizo-announces-coloredge-prominence-cg3145-315-dci4k-98-p3-hdr10-1m1-contrastso yeah nothing will be as good as that.Apparently they found some way to improve the bleed over, if you trust toms hardware:Quotehttps://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-pro-display-xdr-apple-tv,news-30243.html

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:53:28 pm
content: I think the pricing is stupid but I'm also just not going to buy it. I don't buy any apple stuff(for myself). If people want to buy it then good for them. They'll either be happy with it or return it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 12:04:28 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 05, 2019, 10:43:07 pmPaid review, or sort of. They say 350 nits washed out. But when I look at my 350 nit Dell U3014 at max brightness setting, it blinds me. If there is any positive difference in picture, then certainly not because of brightness. But then on wide gamut panel it's more likely to be because of color/color space setting (sRGB, Adobe RGB...). Or Apple monitor over saturates colors by default.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 12:41:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 06, 2019, 12:04:28 amThe brightness isn’t just to enable HDR, it’s also to enable outdoor use, like if using it as a reference monitor on location at an outdoor film or photo shoot.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:14:15 pm
content: The memers are having a lot of fun with that $999 stand. Not to mention the ridiculously expensive monitor.Me, I'm quite happy with discarded (free) monitors. I don't need (and haven't desk room for) monitors that try to rival IMAX screens. Also I prefer photo-frame style, ie no stand at all. Monitor bottom edge sitting on the desk.It's quite enjoyable watching Apple drive itself into the ground like a Boeing 737 max with an end-stopped jackscrew

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:26:35 pm
content: Terra that is quite a neat idea, never thought of it. May make sense in some cases. For general use however the monitor may sit too low to the eyes.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:57:54 pm
content: Wow, so, is it made out of mithril?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 06, 2019, 01:14:15 pmThough I find the cost of the stand and VESA mounts to be bafflingly high, the display itself is definitely not overpriced. If it is evenhalfas good as Apple claims it is (and given Apple's track record with display specs, the specs will be accurate or even conservative), then its price is an outright bargain compared to the displays it's competing with. It's not an office display, it's a high end display for color-critical applications.Quote from: TerraHertz on June 06, 2019, 01:14:15 pmIf you ask me, skimping on displays (especially in professional settings) is a false economy. Large displays let you bemassivelymore productive. There have been studies about how much time office workers spend scrolling long documents, and while I forget the numbers, it's shocking. Upgrading an office worker to a larger display can result in productivity improvements of 20% (!!!!). For an employer, spending $400 on a bigger display for every office worker is anincrediblycheap way to improve performance. Me, I find that my free time is valuable, too, and so I have always used large displays at home, too.Now, engineering, graphic design, music, and video production are a bit different, in that they may indeed require high end displays that cost more, anywhere from a little more to a holy fuckton more (if you're doing big-budget cinema, for example).As for stands... I wish my neck was forgiving like yours. I can't use low-standing displays (like a laptop, or a desktop display the way you describe) for any extended periods without it causing pain. :/ I have to pay close attention to good ergonomics for any use longer than a few minutes.Using an Ergotron monitor arm killed two birds with one stone: better ergonomics AND freeing up lots of desk space!Quote from: TerraHertz on June 06, 2019, 01:14:15 pmLOL. I predict the new Mac Pro and the Pro Display are going to sell well. They're not high end consumer machines, they're workstations for bona fide professionals, in which these prices are absolutely in line with everyone else. You don't buy it if you're a prosumer like me, who likes good stuff but has no need for that level of performance. It's for people doing genuinely high end work like 4K/8K video, crazy music production, scientific modeling, etc. And those customers have been champing at the bit for a Mac suitable to those workflows, with lots of PCIe expansion for the extra hardware they need, and with super beefy CPUs, after being disappointed by the 2013 Mac Pro (which was, IMHO, essentially a glorified Xeon Mac mini).

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 06, 2019, 01:14:15 pmThese monitors are for professional use where color accuracy is vital. If that monitor can provide what it claims, it's really good value.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:30:13 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on June 06, 2019, 02:24:34 pmIf monitor costs $5K, ok, maybe it's that good. But $1k for stand is total ripoff. There is nothing in it that costs that much, and does not improve color accuracy a tiny bit.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:33:22 pm
content: The $1k stand is an absolute ripoff, but just don't buy it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 05, 2019, 10:23:36 pmFor editing video what's the point in getting this level of accuracy when the end user displays (not just consumer, cinema too) are miles off because of lack of calibration and the limitations of a multitude of different display technologies and generations? Just so in some far flung future where end user tech has caught up, someone might actually consume the content exactly as intended by the person editing.If the person editing costs you 100x more than the display and having it makes them happy, of course it's worth it. Having the Apple logo on the display makes a lot of those kinds of people happy too ... so in that case this monitor will work just as well. Lots of money saved, for no appreciable loss in profitability of the end product.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:50:07 pm
content: And nobody even mentioning that a maxed out new mac pro could total at around 45000 USD. Without the monitor. And people will justify buying it. "It makes me work faster"

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 04:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 06, 2019, 02:30:13 pmMaybe drop your Apple prejudices at the door and reread, since the stand isn't $5K. It's $1K (still way too much), but $6K for this caliber of display is an absolute steal. It's competing with displays that have an entire extra digit in the price...Quote from: NANDBlog on June 06, 2019, 02:50:07 pmAnd what's wrong with that? The studios are used to spending hundreds of thousands per user on hardware and software. This is chump change to its target audience.Quote from: Marco on June 06, 2019, 02:34:45 pmReally?!? You do realize that the quality of the equipment is part of why real broadcast and big-budget cinema just plain looks better than what you get with consumer gear, right?And you do realize that lots of consumer gear (and the cinemas) ARE calibrated, right?And you realize that some of us can actually see differences, even if you can't?And you realize that in the context of the budgets of professional media, this is all peanuts? You're not going to risk fucking up the color on a $25 million film or TV series by using a consumer display. You spend the $25K on a reference display, because you KNOW it's right. The price is absolutely trivial compared to the budget (and thus the cost if it gets messed up).I get the distinct impression that the naysayers haveliterally no clue how this type of equipment is used. This isn't for, like, youtubers or something. It's for serious, hardcore professional use.Ever been to a TV studio? I was last in one in 2001, and they had a 9" Ikegami HD monitor in a rack, just to monitor the HD they rebroadcast from CBS (since they weren't yet producing in HD). That was a $16,000 monitor. For 9 inches. That only got looked at once in a while. Because you need to make sure it's going out properly.True high-end professional media creation (big budget cinema and TV, broadcast, high-end studio photography, and professional music production, etc) are all high budget enough that they prefer to use expensive equipment, because the equipment just isn't a big part of the cost compared to labor or other losses. If you charge clients $50,000 for a photo shoot, you'll spend the $12K on a new computer that lets you process the pix faster and more accurately. If you are paying 50 musicians to be in the studio to record a film score, you're not going to cheap out on equipment and risk having to redo things. And if you're paying a Hollywood actor $10 million to shoot a film (never mind the hundreds of others on set), you are not going to risk the camera exposure being even the tiniest bit wrong, since a retake could cost millions. So you buy the $40K reference displays.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 05:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 06, 2019, 04:41:15 pmIt's not competing with them, and there is nothing exceptional in this display. It's just a good IPS LCD with dimming LED array. Not even 8k resolution. And they don't even offer Light-Shielding Hood. $5k was a typo.BTW it does not even come with vesa mount. So you need to spend at least additional $200 for vesa adapter to attach it to anything at all.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 06:14:57 pm
content: No reference displays have 8K. It's a direct competitor in featureset to $30k monitors like the EIZO I mentioned.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 06:25:50 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on June 06, 2019, 06:14:57 pmApple sucks to that EIZO a big time, not even close. Apple cannot do HDR or high contrast without halo artifacts.It's more like a competitor of displays a bit below and around it's price. There is no exactly 6k with HDR. But there is color calibrated 8k Dell without HDR for $4k (including stand that is actually better)https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-ultrasharp-32-8k-monitor-up3218k/apd/210-alez/monitors-monitor-accessoriesand 4k monitors with HDR which are not any worse than Apple monitor, and even have more backlight points. BTW Apple XDR is not any 'more reference' display than 8k Dell.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 07:08:15 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 06, 2019, 04:41:15 pmThe cameras and the professional colour grading do wonders, but what it can not do is make the end user displays (including cinema projectors) be close to their monitor in colour reproduction no matter how professional they are or their equipment is. When the end user are watching stuff which is miles off, what does it matter if their display is yards off?QuoteNot enough of consumer to matter economically and cinema projectors use a wide array of technologies and generations thereof. Calibration is an inexact science, not all the factors are separable.QuotePlacebo is strong though ... only ever trust double blind. Being able to see a difference in A/B when comparing the monitors is not the same as being able to see a qualitative difference in a movie graded on A or B in the cinema.QuoteYes as I said, it's mostly about making the people doing the work happy.QuoteEven for cinema projectors the variation is going to be so huge that anything large enough to make much of a difference isn't going to be very tiny.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 10:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 06, 2019, 02:34:45 pmGetting that level of accuracy for video production and editing is important for the same reason that audio mastering is done in specialist studios with top-shelf gear (and set-ups; a studio is more than just the gear in it). The people doing this work need dependable, consistent and repeatable references. Yes, they are all well aware that when the end product gets out to the customers the playback equipment varies wildly. But you have to trust what the display and the monitoring speakers are telling you if you want to do consistent work.And don't forget that the digital assets are transferred between studios as a production progresses. It is of utmost importance that what the designers at Studio A see and hear is exactly the same as what the designers at Studio B see and hear.Sinceyoudon't do this sort of work, you can't possibly understand the challenges associated with it. So you should consider that before commenting, yes?

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 11:02:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on June 06, 2019, 10:53:39 pmDunning-Krueger effect rearing its head again.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 11:55:11 pm
content: I'm waiting for Apple to start offering Oxygen-free copper monitor cables, for ultimate digital signal fidelity.Can we start using the term VideoPhools yet?Quote from: Bud on June 06, 2019, 01:26:35 pmAnd yet, if you were reading a book it would be flat on the desk, or at best in a book rest, sitting upright on the desk.When you type, don't you have to at least glance at the keyboard? Then why not have the screen (bottom) right there at the same level, to minimize eyeball travel? It's more efficient. For the same reason I use a keyboard without any numeric keypad. I rarely need to enter a lot of numbers, but do have to move my right hand back and forth between mouse and keyboard all the time. That several extra inches of hand travel over the numpad, twice each move, thousands of times, really started to piss me off. So begone numpad.As for screen scrolling, this is why I have a second monitor mounted in portrait mode. It's normally turned off and sits partly behind the standard monitor. When extra screen face is needed (not often), slide it out and power up.Incidentally I wasn't claiming no one ever needs high video fidelity. I fully understand the needs of TV and film studios and producers. But Apple is targeting the consumer market. The 'Apple fanatics'; the same idiots who will buy an iPhone without an earphone jack. If Apple were targeting the studio market they would have an even more expensive rack and rail-mount option. Instead it doesn't even have standard VESA mount points. That's outright hostile (but it does mean more suckers will buy that $999 stand.)Edit to add:Incidentally, google 'studio quality rackmount video monitor' to see products that are _really_ intended for the professionals. Most don't mention prices (if you have to ask...) but ones that do, are far less than Apple's offering. A lot include onscreen color statistical and video signal analysis. And there are no bullsh*t $1K stands.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:08:21 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 05, 2019, 10:29:01 pmBa-dump dump

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:09:03 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on June 06, 2019, 10:53:39 pmStudios mostly unstandardized for listening beyond simple flatness and some common rules of thumb to get a large sweet spot. No exact distance specs to get the same reproducible stereo delay in every studio for instance. Even Dolby certified, every studio a different size, every speaker a different distance ... all very ad-hoc. Don't sweat the small stuff.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:27:27 am
content: It reminds of something similar Apple did with the Apple PowerMac G4 Cube.QuoteAt least it didn't need an optional stand.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:28:17 am
content: https://9to5mac.com/2019/06/06/msi-mocks-apple-pro-display/Companies already taking advantage.

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 02:20:16 am
content: You know, it's amazing that people who don't do this for a living, and have no intention of spending this kind of money on video gear, still love to mock the people who do. You don't want to buy it - get over it. Spend your money on old analog oscilloscopes and 10.5 digit DMMs. You look just as silly to those people.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 04:09:14 am
content: I see this as an opportunity for Chinese manufacturers to make knock-off stands for a fraction of the price and start selling them on eBay. How long will it be before we see non-Apple compatible stands for this monitor?How dissimilar will the stand have to be to avoid Apple patent infringement? Will Apple void the warranty on the monitor if it is hooked up to a non-Apple stand?Apple should have just charged $1000 more for the Display and included the stand for "Free".

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:47:59 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 06, 2019, 05:06:34 pmApple expressly compared it to a $43K Sony reference monitor, and is expressly claiming that it meets or exceeds that Sony in all specifications.So I respectfully submit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.As for the $200 VESA mount, yeah, I think it’s silly. But to repeat for the kids on the short bus: even with the cost of the stand or VESA mount, it’s still a good deal for what it is.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:52:58 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 06, 2019, 06:25:50 pmYou're stating this stuff authoritatively, as if you had any clue. You don’t, and it shows.1. As I said, Apple has a long history of making superb displays that exceed their specifications. It’s extraordinarily unlikely that Apple is overselling what the new display can do.2. Either way, display analysis specialists will tell us once they have a chance to test them thoroughly.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:57:21 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 06, 2019, 11:55:11 pmWatch the WWDC keynote. There is nothing,absolutely nothing, about their positioning of the Mac Pro and the display that is consumer-targeted. It’s all expressly for professionals.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:10:41 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 01:52:58 amApple has usual LCD panel with local dimming = it cannot work without creating halo artifacts. $30k Eizo has LCD backlight control for each pixel and is a true reference display. It has built in calibrator which can do the job automatically according to set schedule ($5k Eizo has it too). Eizo comes with light-shielding hood, Apple does not have such at all. I'm not saying Apple XDR is bad, just that stating it as a competitor to $30k Eizo is very far from the truth.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:26:10 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 02:10:41 amGiven that Apple is expressly making claims about its lack of blooming, I don’t think it’s going to be a problem.As for the Eizo: it definitely does not have a separate backlight for each pixel. If it did, it’d just be a direct-view LED display, which wouldn’t need an LCD panel at all.If I dissect your claim literally (that the “$30k Eizo has LCD backlight control for each pixel”), one could make the same claim of every backlit LCD ever made, in that the function of the LCD panel is to provide a shutter for each subpixel, controlling the amount of backlight that is allowed through.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:36:57 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 02:26:10 amIt certainly does not have individual backlight for each pixel but it has another LCD layer modulating backlight for each pixel.https://www.displaydaily.com/article/display-daily/if-one-lcd-is-not-enough-try-twoAs of Apple, it's impossible to make local backlight dimming and not have halo artifacts.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:46:42 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 02:36:57 amWe don’t know that Appleisn’tusing a double-LCD panel, too. Using local dimming doesn’t rule out the double LCD.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:48:34 am
content: AFAIR the double LCD HDR display was patented, but it's been a while.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:56:26 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 02:46:42 amIf they had, they would tell this. And then local backlight dimming would make no sense, as all it would do is compromising picture. Also when Apple stated not having halo artifacts? They just did not say anything about them, as who would state flaws at presentation. I'm really impressed by your faith in Apple. Even their piss is a bliss.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:09:32 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 02:56:26 amI knew you were gonna say this!You know that Eizo doesn’t say they use the double LCD, either? The data sheet (and web page) for their double LCD monitor makes no mention of the technology used to achieve their claimed performance:https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/db/files/catalogs/ce/ColorEdge_PROMINENCE_CG3145.pdfQuote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 02:56:26 amOh, yeah, attackmeeven though you’re the one whose ignorance and laziness is showing through.I told you already: watch the damned keynote. You are saying that Apple has remained silent, while in fact they HAVE discussed the things in question, you’re just too stubborn to go look!The keynote talks about blooming. The product web page has a section about it, too. They are very expressly claiming that it performs very well on this metric.So yeah, would youpleasejust shut up until you’ve actually done even the most rudimentary reading on the subject? You’re here debating based on nothing more than having seen headlines.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:26:55 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 03:09:32 amWhich keynote?QuoteIt says "reduce blooming". Not avoid it.Say you have dark pixels near to bright pixels at 1000 nit brightness lit by exactly the same backlight zone. Please explain how to miraculously avoid halo effect while using LCD with 1000:1 -ish contrast ratio?QuoteBut you already hailing features and performance it does not have.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:47:13 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 03:26:55 amThe WWDC 2019 keynote, where the display was announced.As I said in an earlier comment: Apple has a track record of excellent displays whose specs are actually conservative, so there is no reason to suddenly doubt Apple’s claims. Apple may use lots of hyperbolic language in general, but when it comes to displays, they tend to be very realistic claims that end up being confirmed as accurate or even conservative when third parties test them.You’re claiming I’m saying things I’m not. More than anything else I’ve simply been telling the Apple haters (like you) to not knock it yet, since it hasn’t shipped, hasn’t been tested independently, and certainly hasn’t been proven to suck, which is more or less what you have said.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:47:17 am
content: The stand is a weird marketing disaster, regardless of the monitor's quality.Apple has censored the audience groans and non applause at the unveiling event videos, it's that bad.cnet: "techies took to Twitter to call the move greedy, sad and "the ultimate middle finger to any consumer that is seriously considering their machine."I'd have to agree the price is a middle finger, even if it does have nifty mechanics or something.I wonder if the power cord is equally artsy.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:48:54 am
content: Really? The audience laugh at the price of the stand was definitely in the keynote when I watched it (2 days later, not live).As for it being a middle finger to consumers: it’s unabashedly NOT a consumer machine, and Apple has been nothing but explicit in identifying high end professionals as the target audience for this machine.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:51:10 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 03:47:13 amI don't doubt them. I doubt your claims it rivaling $30k monitor. There are monitors with similar features in it's price range, except 6k resolution while being HDR.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 05:15:00 am
content: You can doubt all you want. Apple claims it's competitive and until there are actual independent reviews we won't know one way or another.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 06:21:17 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 09, 2019, 03:47:17 amIs it even included? If they can charge $1k for a stand...

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 07:59:38 am
content: Quote from: amyk on June 09, 2019, 06:21:17 amWhy do you think the stand costs so much? It INCLUDES the power cable.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 10:07:06 am
content: Quote from: KaneTW on June 09, 2019, 05:15:00 amApple claims it's for professional work. Just as other displays in $5k price range.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 10:42:34 am
content: Consumer product -> can't charge $1,000 for the standProf. product -> charge $1,000 for the standApple's customers are made of money.I find a new Mercedes Benz floor mats at $170, a pretty good deal after spending $170K.I thought they might rip you off, as some new cars have high priced basics.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:04:37 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 10:07:06 amhttps://youtu.be/psL_5RIBqnY?t=5610Theydirectlycompare it to reference monitors, including statements like "all pros can now use the same displayacross the workflow."

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 07:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 03:51:10 amIt wasn’t MY claim. It’s what Apple itself said, dude. (And just to be clear, you’re the one who introduced the $30K Eizo. Apple compared it to a $43K Sony.)Stop being so fucking dense. You’re being argumentative for the sake of arguing, and attacking me for YOUR not having done even the tiniest bit of homework before ranting like a toddler.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 08:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 07:53:30 pmOK, then they just made stupid comparison between apples and oranges. That Sony is not even PC monitor as such. Not hard to understand if you look on it's front panel and back. Apple XDR simply cannot work as replacement for that unless it's owner is stupid and use it as usual PC monitor.QuotePlease look in the mirror.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 08:51:00 pm
content: https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/bwqw1o/apples_xdr_display_is_misleading/Quote

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 02:40:48 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 08:29:16 pmNope. You don’t get to turn this around onto me. Everything I’ve said has been based on fact, while you’ve consistently argued based on your own lazy, uninformed assumptions. (You were repeatedly told the sources of claims, yet you continued to argue as though I was making them up.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 02:42:37 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 09, 2019, 08:51:00 pmApple never said it was a stand in for that, merely that the image quality meets or exceeds it. It definitely doesn’t have the features.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 01:12:51 pm
content: It reminds me of the Radius Pivot of the 80's:

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 09:51:38 am
content: $999 Mac Pro Stand Explained

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 07:27:44 pm
content: "XDR" is how Apple calls the "True HDR".There is a Sony True HDR reference monitor that costs 45K USD.So in this case, the New Apple Pro Display is a good deal.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 07:33:08 pm
content: So the new target of these products is ... big companies, not private customers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 07:37:51 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on June 14, 2019, 07:27:44 pmAgain, wrong comparison. It certainly cannot be comparable with $30k EIZO. There are also HDR monitors which cost less than Apple XDR and work by the same principle. If Apple can offer image any better than those, time will tell.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 08:51:54 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 14, 2019, 07:37:51 pmI assume they are not true HDR monitors.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 08:59:11 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on June 14, 2019, 08:51:54 pmYes they are. For example this onehttps://www.asus.com/Monitors/ProArt-PA32UC/.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 11:07:30 pm
content: Direct lit LED based displays are the only consumer HDR displays out there, you could easily argue they are the truest for the moment.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 08:53:43 pm
content: Nothing new, if you buy engineering books

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2019, 02:46:07 pm
content: All the people: It's a steal !Apple: No, it's aluminium.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 09:15:09 pm
content: Fixed it for you:Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 17, 2019, 02:46:07 pm

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 07:24:56 pm
content: But Jonathan Ive comes from the UK!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 07:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 19, 2019, 07:24:56 pmHe is, but they seem to have pretty much stopped letting him talk in public!

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 11:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 19, 2019, 07:42:28 pmYeah, I'm a big fan of Apple products, but I wish they'd just stop touting Ive's "design skills."

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 09:07:58 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on June 19, 2019, 11:42:50 pmBut they pretty much have.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 09:16:56 am
content: His design skills are absolutely fine. The issue is that they tend to override the engineers.I can imagine the team assigned to design the new MBP and MBA butterfly keyboards.Jony:"I want that keyboard 20% thinner and I want really sharp edges."Engineering:"So you want our customers to look like a dyslexic AOL user who has had several failed suicide attempts?"(I took my MBA back - it was awful)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 01:09:32 pm
content: Honestly, though I like a lot of Ive’s work, he absolutely needs some very strong people like Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall to rein him in when his simplifications have gone too far. Ive just doesn’t have a good enough feel for usability. (Especially on the software side.)

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 04:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on June 20, 2019, 09:16:56 amWhich is ironic for a company which tried to patent rounded edges.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 04:26:40 pm
content: Marketing says sharp is the new round!