Board assembly equipment questions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2013, 07:49:12 pm
content: Hello,i'm in the unenviable position of having to build a draft project for a complete board assembly line (small) from scratch, no PCb manufacture thoSo far i know i need:Pick and Place machine with X ammount of reels, 30x30cm will be enough with conveyor belt output(what about options, cameras, paste dispensing? etc?), 2000PPH is acceptableSoldering oven: what is used nowadays?, wave solder or reflow?Panel cutter?, os is this done by hand?ATE for testing the devices afterwardsmy questions build on your expertise people:How are dual-loaded boards assembled and soldered?(depends on if i need wave or reflow)How many ovens are needed, or just one?What are good manufacturers, brands, models of machines for this job?anything else i'm missing?regards

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 12:53:56 am
content: Quote from: Eliminateur on October 16, 2013, 07:49:12 pmWhat is the budget? Yuo're probably looking at US$50K+ for new equipment. The sky's the limitQuoteWave for through-hole, maybe selective solder, reflow for SMDQuoteDepends how you do the panelisation - you can usually design to avoid need for depanelling tools using v-score and rat-bite breakoutsQuoteVery dependent on requirements - where possible, build in as much self-test as possible into productsQuoteFor SMD, you just do everything twice - paste, place, reflow. Put heavy parts on the second pass.QuoteOne, multi-zone - number of zones may depend on process requirementsQuoteMydata, Samsung, Essemtec, Panasonic, Juki and plenty of othersQuoteYou forgot the Stencil printer.Inspection - at the very least a Mantis, maybe AOI depending on volumes.Choice of equipment will be very dependent on your requirements - batch sizes, types and mix of parts, board sizes, minimum part size/pitch, need for cut tape feeders etc. etc. etc.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:32:52 am
content: Mike,thanks a lot for the detailed info, letme clarify as well:1) budget is not fixed yet, 100K+ is reasonable2) it will be a SMD-only line, so i guess reflow3) panelization, i guess it depends on when to order the PCBs4) no self test possible as they will be PC DIMMs/SODIMM, and every device needs to have a SPD with individual serial number, i wonder if that is done before or after mounting(my guess is after as otherwise one would have to re-reel the components afterwards) so an ATE/programmer for every device is required.5) both sides have same load, but if you do everything twice wouldn't existing components suffer a lot of stress on the 2nd pass?(or risk detaching)6) process requirements such as?7) quick googling i found some philips p-n-p as well, are they good?, i'll check those manufacturers to see what they havestencil printer for the paste stencil?, the one that punches into metal sheets?, i see...9) hmm it will not be insane scale but i'm leaning towards AOI, i'll leave that as an option.Also i forgot all the label printing for each product...Since they will be PC DIMMs it's all BGA fine pitch parts, some passives (very small ones, i think they're 0205) and a SPD eepromAlso, the software that operates all the machinery, is it usually included with the machines?, for example to do a paste stencil what is used?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:54:03 am
content: You really need to get a local SMD machine dealer to come in an quote you suitable turn-key system for your requirements. For a $100K system (which is the low end BTW) they will come to your place and talk.Asking on the forum is good to get an idea of what you might need so you can talk turkey, but you'd be very foolish to buy anything without getting a rep in to advise.This basic system at my local manufacturer cost upwards of $500K, but that's for general use. It would cost less for a specific requirement.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 03:59:41 am
content: i don't think there are smd machine dealers in this country..., maybe specific importers but that's it (i will check ofc but if they are, they will be in the capital city 400km away).i remember that vid, in fact i used it as reference too

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 04:50:31 am
content: Quote from: Eliminateur on October 18, 2013, 03:59:41 amAnd that is..... ?

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 05:28:47 am
content: For a line, stencil printer/pick-and-place/reflow oven, I think $100k is maybe even below low end - for that money, I think you are looking at used equipment. Consider you need conveyors/wiring/reels/fixtures, etc.The P&P would be the most expensive part, and I don't know if there are any for the $50k range new? Likely some small lesser known brands, but I don't think the major players like Juki/Philips/MyData/Fuji/Universal have anything close to that price. AFAIK, their low end machines are deep into six figures, then you have to buy feeders and they want you to commit to a spare parts cache as well.2000PPH isn't that much though. I'd be looking at a seller of used equipment who will support it for you as well.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 10:39:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 18, 2013, 03:54:03 amOr more, depending what that requirement was..ATE for memory modules could get extremely expensive

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 10:45:46 am
content: Quote from: Eliminateur on October 18, 2013, 03:32:52 amSurface tension will usually hold the bottom side parts on, but you can use glue-dots if necessary - add a glue-dot dispenser to your equipment listQuoteNo, he thing that uses the stencils (that you get made by someone else) to print the paste onto the PCB.Unless you need fast turnarounds of lots of different designs it makes no sense to make stencils in-house- you'd probably be looking at 50K just to do thatQuoteBasic software will be, but I'm sure there will be add-ons for stuff like inventory manangement, thoughput optimisation etc.Your PCB software will be able to output a gerber layer for making a paste stencil...and of course don't forget to budget for staff and training to run it.I don't quite understand why anyone would want to get into the business of making memory modules, unless they are specialised for a niche application.And why are you considering in-house instead of sub-contracting ? It's a lot of expense that you have to keep busy to pay for.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 11:28:03 am
content: How about testing the finished board (flying head tester) and programming?Unless you,re willing to produce 365 days a year hundreds a day I would suggest to look into other options like mike said.

author: Eliminateur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2013, 11:49:18 am
content: Stoneent: ArgentinaAFAIK there's only ONE maybe 2 places that have board mounting capability in the country, subcontracting from them is no business as they already have their own memory production line(with something like 6 P&P machines in line, they have a huge production line).ahh i see, the paste "printer", there's a machine just for that?, insane!, i thought the P&P could do itThe idea is to manufacture locally commodity/obsolete RAM(DDR2 for example), we have INSANE import restrictions and duties for finished products and DDR2 prices are sky-high and availability is nil.The PCBs themselves would be made in china ofc, i also need to build a BOM for an example DIMM, and see the schematics side of things... (i see that JEDEC has the design files available).thanks guys for the responses, very very useful