Getting into the Consumer Electronics Business - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 03:50:17 pm
content: Apologies if this isn't the right forum - happy to move it if not. I am very definitely a beginner in electronics, but an old hand at entrepreneurship. I'm developing a line of products for use in the automotive, powersports, and marine aftermarket. Essentially a collection of parts to make it easy and safe to drive big (up to 30A) proportional loads. I am very confident in my niche and I know how to go to market - but I've never done it with electronics, only mechanical parts.I've just finished testing my first-ever PCB design and - with a lot of help from this community - I'm thrilled that it does everything that I hoped it would! Because I messed up some schematic and routing (and other) things, it doesn't do them all at the same time, but I've poked, prodded, jumpered, and tested everything and it's close. In fact, I expect to be able to jumper all 5 of my prototype boards and put them out into the wild for some durability testing and user feedback from personal friends. I've been a programmer for (gasp) almost 25 years so I'm writing the firmware - in C - and not having issues or concerns there.We'll make another round of prototypes that are a bit closer to the end-product, probably 25 or so of those boards and I will be sharing with various shops (including prototyping packaging, instructions, etc.) to get them on board and get more feedback on the current and future products. After that, we'll do some small-ish production runs - probably in the 100-200 board range. I am NOT looking for this to blow up quickly - I have a good "day" job and this will all be side-gig stuff. I'm in no rush to grow fast, I know how to grow in a "durable" way and that's the plan, then in a couple years see if this has enough legs to commit to it full time.I know there are a number of folks here doing something similar, so just curious on the non-obvious stuff that you run into when running a small-ish electronics product company. Here is a list of some of the things I'm thinking about, but I'm sure it's incomplete. Appreciate any tidbits, experience, anecdotes, and guidance from those of you who've walked this path already!Programming and QC Process - need to develop and invest in some tools (easy-ish for low-hundreds volume)Firmware versioning and tracking - unique device IDs needed? Chip? Stickers?Would love to use US-based board shop, but don't think I can tolerate the cost. Inherent risks (will my product end up on Amazon without me?)Need really good website/documentation on installation/troubleshooting/etc.Any regulatory requirements to consider? (saw a marine product listed with SAE and ISO compliance)How long do I warranty things, and how do I know how well they'll hold up to normal vibration?

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 05:36:42 pm
content: Consumer electronics, right? You know what that means. You will have to find a trustworthy Chinese business partner, to manufacture everything for you. FULLY Packaged in a box ready to be sold. The keyword here is trustworthy, someone who won’t shaft you in a thousand different ways.Of course, this is easier said than done.I would start by reading this blog:https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=7It has an immense amount of reading, but it is well worth the time.Amongst one of the many golden nuggets provided, is this one: learn Chinese, even basic functional Chinese will go a long way when you deal with the Chinese suppliers.Be ready to burn the midnight oil. You will likely have to adjust to THEIR time zone.There are several other discussions, worthwhile reading.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 06:10:24 pm
content: Good points, and thanks for the reading! On first pass, seems both interesting and acutely relevant.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 08:01:57 pm
content: Also, for quantities of a hundred or so small (35mmx60mm, ~20 SMD parts) boards per month, is it worth playing with a desktop pick-and-place and reflow oven? I guess I thought "real" PCB assembly was pretty inaccessible, but equipment isn't that expensive. I've got lots of experience with CNC machines, lasers, etc. and these seem like they fall into similar technical territory.Even though doing that would cost me some time, it would probably let me get the actual boards made in the US and then I could legitimately be making these in the US - that will be important to (some of) my customers.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 03:08:21 pm
content: Be careful... at least in the marine market there are already some patents that cover what it sounds like you are contemplating (proportional voltage/current control of various ratings).

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 03:36:56 pm
content: Fair point. I haven't seen a single patent referenced on any comparable product (which is typically a pretty good indicator of there not being one). But, I will dig around some more and find what IS covered so I can make sure to avoid it.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 04:36:38 pm
content: Quote from: meshtron on September 06, 2023, 08:01:57 pmI have gone this route, but with a used high-end machine that cost about $150K new. I got it for $500 at auction, but it was a mess. But, after a number of repairs, it is a fantastic machine. My first machine was not accurate enough for fine-pitch chips, the new one is amazingly accurate. I make more complex boards than you describe, maybe 100 mm square or bigger with 20 to 75 parts per side. The advantage of in-house assembly is being able to make small runs. The contract assemblers can give you great per-piece prices on large runs, but are very expensive on short runs. I often do 25-50 boards at a time.QuoteBe sure to check into liability insurance if this is going into vehicles!If using an outside assembly house, don't let them program the CPU, keep that yourself and do it in house. That makes it harder (but not impossible) to steal the design.Jon

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 05:50:27 pm
content: As a first patent to consider, see USP 9,156,372 to Guglielmo in 2015. Among other things this device does proportional electrical power based on input data from CAN.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 05:52:44 pm
content: Thanks Jon for the thoughts! Right on as far as liability - my first company (sold, still doing well) was high-performance suspension parts so I am very familiar with that space.To your first point RE machines, I appreciate the feedback, all that makes sense. I am planning to do programming and testing in-house regardless, so the assembly part might just make sense.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 08:39:24 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on September 07, 2023, 05:50:27 pmHuh, what?They have a patent for sending data over a CAN bus?And they do it "wireless" too...

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 08:51:17 pm
content: No, they accept data over CAN and control electrical power to remote loads. That power can be on-off, proportional (PWM), etc. The OP said "Essentially a collection of parts to make it easy and safe to drive big (up to 30A) proportional loads."The USPTO would consider it "obvious" to use something other than CAN, so that's not sufficient differentiation.You should read the patent and not just the title.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 12:18:08 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on September 06, 2023, 05:36:42 pmWe areinthe same time zone, but getting any sense out of the supplier we dealt with had us tearing our hair out at my old job.They had the advantage in that we had already bought some products off their company, which didn'twork.All they had to do was fob us off long enough for us to get sick of trying & fix the crap ourselves!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 10:11:04 pm
content: > You should read the patent and not just the title.Especially the claims.BTW, it's not a good practice to discuss the IP aspects of one's products in public.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 10:18:32 pm
content: Agreed! I have no association with that patent. It was just one example that I could cite, held by a third party.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 10:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: zaptaI wrote and deleted multiple replies RE the example patent. I kept seeing my patent attorney's face scowling at me in my mind's eye. "Really? You needed to talk about IP on a forum? No, it doesn't matter that it's not your IP. You know better than this!"