PhD SOS help help - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 01:57:33 pm
content: Hey everyone, So I'm in need of a little perspective and to be honest this is where I go, EEVblog forum! I'm a 3rd year PhD student in Physics studying nano-magnetism. My love for electronics is what drew me in to this topic for my Thesis work. Everything with the research is great! I built an entire lab and have been able to make large strides in me sample fabrication in 1 year. This is all good and all, but here is my problem. My adviser is new to the department and is an abusive racist sexist asshole. He has verbally threatened all of my friends in order to rid my life of any distractions from what he wants me to work on. He screams at me calling me stupid, and that everything I say and do are lies! He is also impervious to reason and other research in the field. On a daily basis he goes on rants about how chemist biologist and engineers are useless and if I want to think any thoughts in those areas I should just go commit suicide. That is another thing, I cant count how many times this man has told me to kill myself!!! And for the nail in the coffin, he took data I collected and told him the instrument was broken "oxygen leak" and published it without my consent!So this past week everything went crazy. He was screaming at me daily, following me around the lab, and after one episode of screaming he picked up a hammer and began hitting on a chunk of metal. Thank god it wasn't me. On Thursday I left the lab while he was screaming at me. In his anger he sent an email out to my PI for my NSF fellowship and the the building coordinator saying Im no longer a member of his lab and my keys and card are to be turned in effective immediately.By evening my lab-mates told me he was crying with remorse for what he did. By the next day he was begging for me back.By this time I have spoken to the Director of Graduate Studies, Chair of the Department, and PI of the NSF grant. They have my back no matter what I decide. I already have offers from 2 other labs who would love to have me. I am at a loss for what to do!!!What would you do???

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:07:05 pm
content: Get out of there ASAP! Especially so if you already have multiple places to go to and continue your research.Ruining your health is not worth it. And this adviser seems to be mentally unstable & an asshole.Let him run into a "Bloch wall". Maybe that will set him straight.P.S. If you feel like you need a restraining order, get one.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:10:05 pm
content: This is a matter for the HR department at your university. He is the problem so he should either change his ways or should be fired.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:11:07 pm
content: -What would you do???-It depends on what you want in life.On one hand, life is too short and I would vote with my feet.On the other hand, the society is better off without this guy and you and your friends stands to make money out of this situation as you can possibly imagine. I would try to document the situation as much as you can, email, notes, recordings, witnesses, ..., doctor appointments, letters to family and friends, phone calls, raise the issues with the school administrators (after you have accumulated enough evidence), ...Find the best lawyer you can, sue the school for negligence.You can make this into a multi-million dollar winning for you and the a-hole will have learned a painful lesson he can't forget for the rest of his life.The key is document, document and document more.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:16:36 pm
content: GET OUT NOW!!!!!! If it was me, he would have not gotten past 1 day of abuse before I would have been looking for another place to go. Even if I would have put up with it, the hammer incident would have sealed it. You've spoken to the various administrators, but have you filed an official complaint? I certainly would. I agree with Dannyf, if you have the documentation, lawyer sounds good.

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:35:29 pm
content: Move to another lab and get on with your studies. You've talked to his supervisors. Give them a chance to deal with him, and if he harasses you after that, take it up with HR, and then if necessary look at getting a restraining order or whatever.Ignore the silly advice about suing for millions. That is not the way to solve your problem.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:40:35 pm
content: I have two rules in life that have really help me build friendship, even with the nastiest personality.First, be nice to everyone. It is always preferred to be a nice and positive person.Second, be 10x the ass to anyone who is an ass to you, preferably the very first time they wrong you.To deal with a-holes, you have to be able to speak their -language-, without any mercy. Because the sooner they learn the lesson and the more painful a lesson they learn, the better off they are in the long run.Don't hit someone if it doesn't matter. Because it is no good for you and him

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:00:14 pm
content: Since you asked yourself and us the question whether you should go or stay, you must have considered something that makes it seem worthwhile to stay. Otherwise you would just have left, took one of the offers and not asked that question.So perhaps it is worth to explain what would be of benefit for you when staying at your current place. What is it that makes you hesitant to move to a different place (i.e., what makes you want to stay) despite the things you experienced? No offense intended towards the guys that made concrete suggestions here, but making your decision dependent on random "armchair experts" on the internet (frankly, this would include me, too) whose personality you do not really know and which came to their conclusion based on a superficial and limited impression of your overall situation is as reliable as rolling a dice...

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:23:48 pm
content: I sympathise with you.If you like the people you work with, which i feel is the case then go to the head of department and say you have offers elsewhere, but am willing to stay but cannot work under the abusive supervisor.If they accept the offer and sack him, it is highly likely things will hopefully go back, but if not take the other work.Mentioned above plenty of documentation but I think you may have covered that and other PHD participants would vouch on his behaviour. That is only if you want to stay. Abuse happens in many areas of work, but you can't take that kind of crap from anyone if he is really like that. Tell the bosses above your supervisor to act fast in your request as the waste of time to resolve will waste your PHD research time too.You only have a certain amount of time to complete your PHD so try to come up with a resolution to continue your research, I can understand change labs would mean a large interruption in your workflow.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:32:04 pm
content: -say you have offers elsewhere, but am willing to stay but cannot work under the abusive supervisor.-I would be careful with that strategy. If they turn a blind eye again, you have no choice but to move on and you would have lost your standing to sue as a student.Schools tend to stand with faculty, just witness the USC incident last week as an example.It is also an opportunity for the op to learn a valuable skill on how to deal with bullies.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: mechknoll on February 07, 2015, 01:57:33 pmThat's a no brainer. Move to another advisor.My answer may be different if you were very close to completing your degree requirements but you aren't.Don't fall to the battered woman syndrome trap. The abuse will come back after the honeymoon.

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on February 07, 2015, 03:50:05 pmAccording to the user profile, mechknoll is male; thus he should not fall for the "battered man syndrome trap"

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 05:18:55 pm
content: Move to a different lab/advisor. Phd programs are stressfull enough without having to deal with a mentally unstable advisor. Been there, done that... Trust me, whatever you may lose in work done for him, it's not worth it. He can make your life hell and drag out your degree indefinitely.You don't want to end up likeTHIS GUY.

author: nuno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 05:46:47 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 07, 2015, 05:18:55 pmI think the opposite would be more likelly. So either the advisor gets locked away for treatment or I would get out of there now. Who knows what mentally unbalanced people can do, especially in the "easy gun access" US.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 05:55:29 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 07, 2015, 02:40:35 pm+1If you do not put such a person in his place the very first time, he knows that he can do it with you and will do it more and more.Keep in mind,all addictions are progressiveand it will only get worst and for this guy it seems to be an addiction.It is probably too late now and you should not waste any time.Get out and start new. Life is too short to be bothered with such stupidity.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:37:09 pm
content: Does your school have a Psych department? You might want to bring in a "friend" who wanted to see what you were working on and watch the guy. I don't think it's enough that you leave, you need to make sure that this guy doesn't continue this behavior.Sounds like a bad case of bipolar disorder to me.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:45:50 pm
content: Call the police, principal (if a school), HR (if a company), he is the one with the problem, not you, he should be out of there and in a hospital or jail.David.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:57:35 pm
content: You can get those "dashboard cameras" for $50 that will record a loop of 2 hours of video (and audio). I would hide 2-3 of these around the lab and capture this person on video as indisputable proof of his improper behavior. If the lab management doesn't instantly put this guy on notice, then I would go directly to the HR people and let them know that your next stop will be the law-enforcement in your jurisdiction.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:59:17 pm
content: QuoteIn most (western) countries, that would be illegal.However, you can record yourself in a public area (where no reasonable expectation of privacy is expected) and he walks into it,

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:14:31 pm
content: Seeing as you have witnesses of BATFUCKINSANE BEHAVIOUR (there is no other appropriate description of the described) take it to HR. If they don't fire him on the spot, go one level up, if still nothing abandon ship.And as was said, document, document, document.

author: DIPLover
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:15:10 pm
content: So which university in the USA tolerates such behaviour??

author: kg4arn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:24:23 pm
content: PM sent

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:45:45 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 07, 2015, 08:59:17 pmYou don't have to show it to anyone. In order for him to PROVE that you "broke the law" he would have to reveal his improper behavior.

author: Neverther
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:48:45 pm
content: If you go back to get rid of bad management:It is usually legal to record audio. If you can hear it, you can record it without prior announcement. If you leave the recording device alone while it is recording, it is considered illegal spying (propably not right term, non-native english speaker here) as you are not there.As stated before, leaving cameras is bad idea as then they have a case against the person, who installed them.Just put phone in audio recording and in your front pocket. Even old bricks could do that.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:57:14 pm
content: I don't think screaming at an employee (or graduate student by their advisor), even when it rises to the level of being abusive is illegal or necessarily grounds for immediate dismissal.If the OP has reported this to the department chair and grant PI then he has already essentially reported it to his adviser's boss. What they do with the information depends on a lot of unknown factors. Anger management counseling seems like the minimal intervention needed.But the OP should just remove himself from the situation. Move to a different lab with a new adviser and avoid the individual as much as possible in the meantime.I don't think he has anything to gain by going after his adviser beyond reporting it to his supervisors. And by doing so more aggressively he risks causing other faculty to rally around their colleague - however unjustifiable.Likely this guy has been abusive to others in his lab and by leaving it may send a message that will encourage others to get out.University research labs are funny places and I've seen it before where abusive faculty create a kind of Stockholm Syndrome with their captive grad students and post-docs.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 10:03:28 pm
content: QuoteMany.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 10:11:05 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 07, 2015, 09:57:14 pmIllegal, no, but what sort of person would want to employ such a wacko? Only someone who is actively trying to sabotage his organization's reputation... It sounds like the man is totally batshit insane.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 10:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 07, 2015, 10:11:05 pmI don't disagree. You might be surprised how much crazy behavior by faculty is tolerated as long as the individual is productive and respected in their area of study.A University research department's reputation is based on publications and awards, not the personality defects of it's faculty. In some cases I think the most abusive ones get kudos because they drive their grad students and post docs the hardest to produce results - ignoring the damage they cause.It gets excused and chalked up to "creative genius"

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 06:13:21 pm
content: Quote from: mechknoll on February 07, 2015, 01:57:33 pmRumours go that for +-1000 euro you can find a junk that finishes the job.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 06:47:48 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 09, 2015, 06:13:21 pmNot sure what you are implying but if it's a criminal act, that is not going to be a good solution no matter what.Why ruin the rest of your life because of this, when you can use the appropriate channels to deal with the issue.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 12:15:45 am
content: Hate to tell you this. But many (most?) academics are insecure, neurotic, backstabbing, fucking assholes. That's really the nicest way I can put it.The hazing is brutal and apparently part and parcel of the process. And it will never end. Someone will be trying to destroy you, your career and your personal life from now until you retire. That's how it works in academia. The are only frenemies at the very best of times. They will buddy up to you because they need to get published, because you're good at lab work and they suck at it, or because you're good at getting grant money. Aside from that they'd just as soon see you dead in a ditch with a broken pipette sticking out of your back.That said, enduring any physical threats is totally out of line and you should be calling the police if you feel in danger. Not campus police. The real police. No matter what the university is telling you now, I promise that they will circle the wagons around the prof and leave you twisting in the wind.At this point, you have no other choice but to change programs because the chance of you getting your doctorate under Hannibal Lecter are zero. He's going shit on you for as long as he thinks he can.PM me if you need more details on the horror stories. I've got plenty to share.

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:04:30 pm
content: Thanks everyone for the replies. It has been a wild ride since the event that drove my adviser to "fire" me, if that's what it is called. I currently have the support of the Chair of the Department and the Director of Graduate Studies (DGS) "In Physics" but it seems they just want to get me out of this situation and into a new lab to hurry me out with a PhD. Which to some degree, I want to just jump back on the research wagon, but I don't want this man to be allowed to do this to another student. The post-doc in the lab told me he was crying about what he did, and I can come back as long as I apologies. But trust me, I will not go back into that abusive environment, and I don't want anyone else to go through this abuse/unsafe workplace environment. Our university has a new rule called Title IX which makes all employees mandatory whistle blowers. So my issue has been taken up by another faculty to the title IX office. Will see what happens there.I also met with the NSF fellowship PI. He told me that it was wrong that I went to the DGS about this issue and that I need to apologies to the adviser and also I need to quit all extra curricular activities including my weekly science news radio show. I'm not sure that if I quit eating then I could give me more time to work. I am in the lab at least 6 days a week on average 12 hr days, and the radio show takes 3 hrs on a Sunday.Long story short, I will most likely lose my fellowship.Silver LiningI have been offered a position from a professor, Dr. Curry, in the ECE department designing high power antennas using high dielectric materials. Still, I feel that everything is happening so fast, and I need to make the correct decision. Not just "a" decision.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:20:51 pm
content: The choice seems clear.Either this guy goes, or you do. If you cant get him out of the lab, then you need to head elsewhere.He sounds completely mentally unstable. The fact that he suddenly turned around and started crying, that right there makes him seem even more unstable. One moment he is raging and the next he does a complete 180. I think it very possible that simply trying to get him to change his behavior, through whatever means, will not work. This guy sounds like the type to snap and kill people and then cry about it afterwords while saying how sorry he is.If everyone has your back, why cant this guy be removed? If the university runs circles, the cops it should be.(and possibly the line below)On a side note, if you are filming your experiments/etc and the camera happens to catch his behavior...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:27:23 pm
content: Quote from: mechknoll on February 10, 2015, 05:04:30 pmIIRC Title IX covers only gender related harassment and discrimination, not general abuse. I may be mistaken though.As for funding, this is typically the role of your advisor to find the money to pay you so you need to discuss it with your new advisor.Good luck and stay safe.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:28:24 pm
content: My advice:Focus on ONE thing: your PhD. Period. Do NOT get embroiled in some quest for justice over this.As you have already discovered, there is no reward for trying to do the "right thing" and address this particular person's alleged misbehavior. It's not new news to anyone. It's likely been going on for a long time. No one is going to stick their neck out to change anything, particularly not if this adviser is bringing home the bacon in the form of grant money. I don't know what the circumstances were, but you're "in the wrong" by simple virtue of your position.Unless you want to change Universities, I'd fall on your sword and "apologize" for making him feel bad or whatever it takes to "apologize" and maintain a modicum of your dignity. Be the bigger person and mend the fence. Just do it.Then, get out of that environment and go somewhere else to finish up and get out with the minimum of fuss. You are going to need letters of recommendation from all of the people you're working with right now in order to succeed in the post doc world. Without that support, you will be hosed.This is all part of the hazing process. If you're going to stick with it, get used to it. It's not right. It's not fair. It *is* the system however. And you WILL NOT PROGRESS without the support of the faculty you're working with. I wish I could fill you with sunshine and daffodils, but that ain't academia.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:36:36 pm
content: Oh, did I mention that you WILL NOT PROGRESS without support and letters of recommendation?!Oh yeah, well there it is for a third time in case you missed it. You could have a 200 IQ and be a complete genius in your field. If you don't put this behind you and get to where you will receive good letters of reference, you will be completely, utterly, fucked. It isn't about how smart or good you are, it's about how hard you work and how much you're willing to suffer. That's the metric. And if that's not what is perceived (perception is reality), then you will get absolutely trashed in the letters and you will never even know it - since you'll never see them.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:48:00 pm
content: And for that kind of institutionalized insanity, you-all are now paying 10x (afterfactoring inflation) more than the previous generation.Ref:http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76We are now creating a generation of graduates who will NEVER earn enough to pay off their education debt.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 06:05:30 pm
content: PhDs are competitive. You're going to have to perform as well as everyone else, plus a bit. Just how it is. (Or so I'm told.) Appease those who control your fate. When you have your PhD and you're in the industry you can do whatever you want. If you want the doctorate, you have to play whatever games are required.They don't get to tell you what to do with your spare time, as little as it is. If you want to do the Sunday thing and continue eating then do that. Until your work falls behind your peers', their argument that you stop all extracurricular activities has no weight.Make life as hard as you can on the TA that was abusing you without making your own life harder. Ditch that fool if you haven't yet.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 09:27:03 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 07, 2015, 09:57:14 pmBut making threats is illegal in most jurisdictions and the hammer incident sounds like that would be considered as threatening, even if verbal threats aren't enough.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 10:07:15 pm
content: QuoteThe irony is that those graduates are permanently enslaved to the academic liberals who care most about "income inequality".

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 11:26:58 pm
content: Don't start the shit-flinging.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 11:39:13 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 10, 2015, 10:07:15 pmHow many academics have you actually met? Most of those in the engineering department, at least, are quite conservative.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 12:04:16 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on February 10, 2015, 11:39:13 pmdannyf believes that all problems are caused by liberals, and if he can't find some liberals to blame for a problem he'll create them.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 12:15:46 am
content: The unfortunate problem is reality has a well-known liberal bias (according to Mr Colbert)

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 01:40:09 am
content: QuoteI wouldn't expect much - just look at the campus rap cases and they don't usually go too far.The good thing is that the choices are all within your control - you can tough it up, vote with your foot, or fight it head-on.If you do want to fight it head-on, you have all the witnesses but you lack good "pr" materials. Some form of admissible recordings , preferably video recordings, would go a long way in pressuring the school to go your way.Whatever you do, good luck.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 10:53:21 am
content: When dealing with people who are unstable and threatening, there's only one way. Record, record, record!Most people have never had to deal with someone who is severely unstable, and find it hard to believe such behavior could be possible. That's why you have to have objective records of the behavior.It's not illegal to make recordings of situations in which you feel threatened. Especially if there has been a repeated pattern of threats and abuse.Small audio recorders are cheap, and can run for days. Get one that records to plain WAV files, since that's non-lossy. A/V recorders are a bit more expensive, and also have the downside of having to deal with very large data files. Which since in these kinds of situations you need to record almost full time in order to catch the 'peak-freaky' behavior, can be a burden.I've been through something similar. Even if you don't end up giving the the recordings to police/authorities, having them is immensely helpful in a personal sense, since you can review them in future and reassure yourself that yes, it really was the other person being batshit insane. It's a horrible feeling if you start to wonder whether maybe you were somehow to blame. As memory of details fades, you may start to doubt your own viewpoint.Plus, there's always the chance the the nutter will actually become physically violent, and you'll have to defend yourself in some way. After which, recordings of them being a lunatic are extremely valuable. (Yes, in my experience.)And lastly, don't let yourself be victimized and disadvantaged by such arseholes. Stomp on them as fast as you can, then get on with your life and work. Why should you have to move to another lab if you don't want to? Play recordings of the person abusing you, to your superiors. The end (for him.)Every time you turn the recorder on, remember to announce the date and time immediately. This helps a lot when dealing with backlogs of recorded files. Retain this in the file, and do not make cuts between this and evidence. You can cut long silences off the *end* of recordings only.Name files with date prefix in the form YYYYMMDD, so they always sort in time sequence.Don't carry it in your pocket unless absolutely unavoidable. Clothing noise can obscure the fainter sounds of interest. Put it on a shelf or somewhere else in the room that won't get vibrated or knocked.Oh and the worst part? In organizing and cutting down the files, you'll have to listen to yourself a lot. Can be painful. But it does help teach 'engage brain before opening mouth'.