Beginners new lab - existing test gear any good for starters? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 03:27:29 am
content: G'day everyoneI've been building up my lab for a while with a mixture of purchased and e-bay items (plus many odds and ends gathered over the years).I'm only just starting to get into electronics seriously now after many years on and off building kits or fixing simple faults.I would appreciate it if anyone has some feedback on whether some (or all?) of my gear is rubbish or if it is a good starting point.I will upgrade to better quality gear as and when I can afford it.This is the the main equipment I have:- Tektronix 2235 scope- Manson DPD-3030 triple power supply- Variable 20V PS - Kit/home made (needs reworking: dodgy mains shielding, dodgy switch)- Goldstar FG-2002C Function Generator- Goldstar DM-7241 Bench DMM- Bob Parker ESR meter (Kit)- Frequency Counter 5-500MHz (looks like a TAFE training project or home made kit)- Hakko FX-88D Solder station- EEVblog (Brymen) BM-235 True RMS DMM- Amprobe 37XR-A True RMS DMMNote that I will have to rearrange some of my shelving to fit in the used scope when Dave sends it to me!A photo of my current lab is attached...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 03:37:07 am
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on March 30, 2016, 03:27:29 amOops, which one was that?I've been slack on sending out the giveaways lately

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 03:55:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 30, 2016, 03:37:07 amYou know Dave, that old piece of crap you found in the dumpster that you've been trying to get rid of for almost a month now!I might just break down and cry if it doesn't come soon.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 04:51:54 am
content: It all looks good to me Marvin!But what's the pink pool noodle for?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 04:55:38 am
content: With 670 or so entries, you never knowWhat you have looks good, I would start letting usefulness dictate any further purchases, and start concentrating on projects, repairs, designs, research, study etc depending on what you're into.When you're not in a hurry to get somewhere generally things get a lot cheaper for test equipment. The tried and tested way in the electronics hobby is pacing yourself and building on experience.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 05:25:11 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on March 30, 2016, 04:51:54 amThanks mtdocNoodle is for insulating HV lines...Not really, it's a leftover from a non-electronics project I was doing.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 05:30:43 am
content: Quote from: Shock on March 30, 2016, 04:55:38 amThanks Shock. Yes, I've got to start actually doing some projects instead of collecting gear, watching Dave's videos and spending too much time reading the forum!

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:33:40 am
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on March 30, 2016, 05:25:11 amI wondered. My boys like making light sabers out of them. They make for epic light saber battles.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 08:07:22 am
content: Quote from: mtdocGood idea, that way they won't hurt each other

author: xyrtek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 08:47:12 pm
content: I say it's all rubbish and would be more than glad to take it off your hands....also since you need space for that new dumpster scope coming your way sounds like a win win to meSo organized for a Martian indeed.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:45:22 pm
content: Quote from: xyrtek on March 30, 2016, 08:47:12 pmSorry , couldn't part with them now (even if they are rubbish!) - took too long to get this far.Especially the shelving I made myself!QuoteHave to be, there's no one else here!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:40:20 pm
content: You have a fine selection of equipment. In most ways, superior to mine. But that's the thing about 'electronics', it covers a vast spectrum of activities with varying requirements.My most important tools tend to be a scope, logic analyzer and a computer as I really like messing around with FPGA projects. It's the same equipment for microcontroller projects and even higher level projects using something like a Raspberry Pi. IoT (Internet of Things) is getting pretty interesting and Microsoft's entry into the arena with Windows 10 is a nice place to start.Lately, I have been playing around with analog computing. I didn't do well in the Differential Equations course in school; I could never 'see' what we were doing; exponential envelopes over sin/cos terms just didn't jump right out at me! Now, 'equations of motion' are a lot more fun to analyze. So, I need a scope and a signal generator along with some sort of analog computer. MatLab on a PC is becoming very handy! I could rave about the Simulink add-on but I won't.I get a lot of use out of my Digilent Inc Analog Discovery kit for both analog and digital scope operations as well as signal generation. This is a great tool for low frequency projects - like analog computing!http://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer/but I have an old Tektronix 465 for most scope needs. Thinking about the Rigol DS1054Z...I suppose I should mention LTSpice as it is very interesting to use it as an analog computer (similar, in that regard, to MatLab) and it is very handy for circuit analysis but I don't do a lot of that kind of thing.For my projects, I can't imagine a bench without a PC. In my little corner of the electronics world, it is vital.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 31, 2016, 04:40:20 pmAs with all things, you should consider whatbenefitanother tool would bring, and whether you might be able to use imagination to achieve those benefits some other way - preferably with whatever you already have! But I'm sure you know that.I too have an Analog Discovery and 465 - but I'll be getting rid of the 465 since I also have the equivalent HP1740A, and a Tek 485 which is a "new" 350MHz "replacement". With those twoIwould have no use for a Rigol DS1054Z or similar.I would be grateful if people could give me advice on how to avoid buying any more scopes

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:04:35 pm
content: Ah, yes, why bother with a DS1054Z when I have a perfectly fine 465 or even the Analog Discovery. Basically, it gets down to channels. I would very much like to have more than two channels when I am messing around with the SPI protocol. Yes, I could connect up my FPGA based logic analyzer (www.sump.org) but that's a lot of effort just to see a simple exchange. Worse yet, the project doesn't seem to work with later versions of Java. More study needed. Maybe it will work better on Linux...In a simple 'equation of motion' computation, it would be nice to plot position, velocity and acceleration - 3 channels. The 4th channel could be used as a trigger at t0. These are low speed signals and the Analog Discovery could handle the bandwidth but not the number of channels. Same problem with the 465. I was thinking that a single sweep on a storage scope would be ideal. Just run and done! How to get VERY long runs will be an issue.I could speed up the repetition rate (change integrator time constant) so the image can repeat on the 465 but still, I'm at least one channel short. The good news is that the 465 has an external trigger input that the DS1054Z appears to lack.There are a number of ways to build 4 channel multiplexers but that seems like the long way around when the 1054 is just $400.Still thinking about it...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:30:48 pm
content: All good answers, not that you need my opinion!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on March 31, 2016, 06:30:48 pmI'm vacillating! I keep bouncing around all the ideas about why I should buy a 4 channel scope against the fact that I have gotten by with dual channel scopes for a really long time. No project I have ever wanted to build didn't get built for lack of a 4 channel scope!The thing is, I don't know ANYTHING about digital scopes. I have never even seen one! The big question: Will this scope do what I want even if I don't know what that is?Here's another thing: Suppose my grandson, who starts college in the fall, decides to go into EE? What kind of equipment will be in the lab? Old fashioned 465s or some modestly priced digital? Is there some value in having something equivalent sitting on my bench when he comes to visit on the weekend? Does the Rigol make printing results a whole lot easier than the 465? Frankly, the fact that the display indicates time/div and V/div would seem to favor the Rigol.As I said, I'm vacillating.

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:20:49 pm
content: G'day rstofer & tggzzz. Do I need to be here for this meeting guys???Quote from: rstoferGood to know.QuoteOh, dear!Quote from: tggzzzSend your better half shopping with the credit card - that should help!Thanks for all the info too guys.Edit: I do have a PC also, it's just not in shot!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 08:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on March 31, 2016, 10:20:49 pmIt is most useful to bounce ideas around. Then I read the Yaigol thread and the 1054 megathread and decided to skip past everything and just buy the scope. Which I did...In my experience, education is never free. In this case, I will learn a great deal about the subject of digital scopes, of which I know nothing, and, worst case, it will only cost $400. More than anything, I'm looking forward to the challenge of using all those menus!There are some terrific advantages to digital scopes, particularly in the display of parameters on the screen. No squinting to see the little dials on the 465.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 08:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on March 30, 2016, 06:33:40 amAh... Oh to be 40 again!

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:42:05 pm
content: Quote from: rstoferYes I know, I've picked up a lot from those side discussions!I was just attempting a small joke, not any criticismQuote from: rstoferI've tried finding training to learn more here (Australia) over the years without having to do an EE degree. I got onto one course years ago but it was cancelled due to lack of applicants.You probably have a lot more opportunities there in the USA We also don't have the financial resources these days to spend on discretionary items (pensioners and my wife has multiple disabilities)Congratulations on your new scope (I'm waiting on Dave delivering my used scope after the draw!).

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 11:21:43 pm
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on April 01, 2016, 10:42:05 pmCongratulations - I wondered who won the scope.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 11:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 31, 2016, 06:59:26 pmThis is what I see schools using on YT. Was told it is because they donate or heavy discount to schools. I have never seen a Rigol in a school. A 5-year warranty is nice for a schoolhttp://www.amazon.com/Tektronix-TBS1052B-EDU-Oscilloscope-Sampling-Warranty/dp/B00KAKI58Y/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1459553435&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=tectronix

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 12:27:15 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on April 01, 2016, 11:21:43 pmOh no, it appears our senses of humour did not match! It was a tongue-in-cheek joke (wishful thinking?)Edit: grammer fix

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 03:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: MarvinTheMartian on April 01, 2016, 10:42:05 pmThere are, in my view, two fundamentally different ways to learn electronics. Get a degree or two while spending years hammering out the math (pretty boring, actually) or find small corners of the field and build projects while learning about that corner. Many of the people on this forum know far more about electronics than I will ever know. Sure, I hammered through the math but I never had any interest outside of digital. I'm only messing around with analog computing because I wanted to relearn what I never really understood about differential equations. Analog computing is MAGIC!Yes, retirement is good! I've been playing at it for 12 years and not once have I wished I was still working.Incidentally, Digilent has an electronics curriculumhttps://learn.digilentinc.com/The Real Analog series is quite good. Yes, it does involve hammering through the math but it is well explained. I haven't done the Real Digital program but I really should.MIT has some MIT level online courseshttp://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/

author: MarvinTheMartian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 01:06:10 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on April 02, 2016, 03:11:07 pmDitto, I haven't thought about work since the day I walked out!Quote from: rstoferThanks for the links, I'll check them out.