Learning experiences from graduated engineers and engineering students - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: darko31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 04:03:44 pm
content: Hello everyone, I'm a first year Mechatronics student, and currently I'm still under a shock and awe caused by sheer amount of knowledge that professors are teaching us. I mean, math, math everywhere, integrals and formulas, numbers are nowhere to be seen, only letters (kidding a bit). There are only glimpses of practical knowledge I've learned from high school, this forum, and Dave's videos, but maybe it's just too early for that.I just thought that this kind of topic would be interesting for people like me and others. Engineers and students who've been through this could share their experiences, tips and tricks, and their methods of learning. It's fourth week from the start of semester and I already have work way above my head, I've decided to take a little rest of doing calculations of electric charge density, and open up this topic.And one more question, how much of the things you've learned at uni you applied in real world work?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 04:24:21 pm
content: Engineering is essentially applied mathematics combined with a lot of empirical and observational experience from expert practitioners.Mathematics applies to design, operation, control and cost accounting (which are the major areas of concern to engineers).Tips to get through the information overload? Don't fall behind. It's far easier to stay on top of things than to fall behind and try to catch up.For methods of learning, experience may vary. But for most people learning happens by doing. So you need to do the tutorial exercises, both assigned and unassigned. Most textbooks have tutorial questions at the end of each chapter. Try to do them even if you have not been specifically assigned them in class.Also, don't be impatient. At some point things that are hard to understand will just "click" and make sense. Until that happens don't stress it, just relax and try to keep learning.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:27:19 pm
content: In all technical programs the first few semesters are always math heavy. This is just to give you mathematical apparatus (greek letters) for further courses. Numbers will come later when you will tackle some real world problems.I was studying EE at Warsaw University of Technology. It uses very traditional teaching approach: lots of lectures and academic examples, not much practical knowledge. I can see now that from first six semesters I use maybe a third of what they thought us. This is because first semesters cover generic EE from circuit theory through high voltage, lighting, heating, drives, traction, measurements, computer science to programming. However stuff at higher semesters is very useful for me (and was a lot less boring to learn).You have to keep on with your courses because they rely on each other. If you fall behind once stuff will just keep piling on. If you don't understand a topic talk with your peers, talk to professors (they are there to convey the knowledge) and try to apply the knowledge practically. Be curious. Don't just learn how to do stuff. Find out why you learn this stuff. Do some small projects on the side.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 07:34:43 pm
content: Quote from: darko31 on October 19, 2013, 04:03:44 pmI missed this question. But actually, at one time or another, nearly all of it. A university can't teach you everything you need to know, but it can give you a foundation to build on. As such, you will invariably have to learn much more in the course of your career than you ever learned as a student. But your student learning will always come back as a starting point to help with the more advanced topics.

author: redben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 09:06:04 pm
content: I'm also studying mechatronic (here it's call micro engineering but it's basically the same) in Lausanne at the EPFL (Switzerland).Here it's the same. We have a lot of theory, and even the electronic lab session look far too theoretical in comparison to Dave's teardown and the macro understandable fantastic explanation he make for us.That's why I'm trying to look for practice on my own.A H-Bridge correspond to a l293d, so buy some and build stepper motor driver.A timer can be a N555, transform your Christmas tree into a blinking machine.An Op Amp can be an Lm741, amplify things !!!Doing things that way will increase you're knowledge really fast.BTW, enjoy school time, I've done an internship as apprentice engineer for 2 month, and I realized that it's way less interesting that the university.First because you're doing the same all the day long and sometimes up to a week or a month.Also because engineering problem are sometimes so complex that they're driving you crazy. Materials properties like electrostatic behavior are a real nightmare in real engineering problems.And make mistake !!

author: darko31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 09:49:28 pm
content: Thanks everyone!Actually I really love tinkering and making stuff, that isn't at all a problem. I'm currently making a DC-DC boost converter from 2.4V to 5V to charge my smartphone from 2 NiMh batteries. And I have bunch of other little projects, but they are all on hold because of the uni.As Ian pointed out, guess I'm just a bit impatient, and a little frustrated of having to go through the theoretical stuff.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 10:09:19 pm
content: Quote from: darko31 on October 19, 2013, 09:49:28 pmWell I hope you didn't make a wrong move. Engineering is a desk job, based in an office, and the theory is everything. It is unfortunate that you would be "frustrated" at "having to go through the theoretical stuff" because the theory you are studying now is only the broad foundation, designed to give you a toolkit to work with. The theory will become more advanced and go into greater depth as you progress. If you do not find this prospect exciting you will not be happy.You will get to work with the practical applications of all this theory later on, but the practical side is based on knowing exactly how things work (or are supposed to work). You will be expected to design things that someone else will build, and if it doesn't work when they build it they will come to you and complain. Without a good theoretical understanding on your part they will be complaining a lot. Or if some system is already installed and it needs improving, modifying or fixing, you will need your theory to figure out how to do that.What Dave shows in his videos is the "fun stuff", designed to be entertaining and get views. Dave has the luxury to do that, but you should not view it as typical of the job most engineers have. In the real world your clients don't want to be entertained, they want to get things that work efficiently, at the lowest cost, in the shortest time. Your job as an engineer is to deliver on those expectations.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2013, 10:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on October 19, 2013, 10:09:19 pm... and that can be fun too. I tend to enjoy those parts of the job where I'm outside the comfort zone.It kind of gets boring when everything you do is within your established expertise.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 12:36:34 am
content: Just remember that even after you graduate, you dont know shit, youve just been given to tools to lean and figure out what you need to on your own, and to judge the truth in what someone tellse you and to make sense of other peoples experience.Ive seen far too much damaged equipment/parts from young engineers who "know what they're doing." I.e. turning off a power supply that crowbars the output with a battery hooked upto it even after being told not to(great design though agilent)

author: darko31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 08:53:44 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 19, 2013, 10:09:19 pmDon't get me wrong, it is very important to know the fundamentals of the field I'm studying. What I meant is courses like physics where we learn special theory of relativity, or going that much in depth with math. Although it is rather fascinating, it's probably going to be completely useless in real world work.Quote from: ConKbot on October 20, 2013, 12:36:34 amYou know the saying: "Knowledge gained is directly proportional to the amount of equipment destroyed".

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 09:26:41 am
content: if you're doing anything significant extraterrestrial (satellites and such), relativity may come in handy

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 09:40:56 am
content: Hi,Quoteknowledge is NEVER useless.Especially when doing pre-development-work you may need the most exotic stuff you ever learned at university.

author: IntegratedValve
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 06:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: darko31 on October 19, 2013, 04:03:44 pmMath is the language of universe, it's not only a tool as some people may think. All physical phenomena follow math laws, that we discover, not create. What I want to say although mathematics is the basis for all EE subjects, asoldering ironis the tool you cannot live without.To design circuits it's not enough to show it's working on papers or SPICE or any CAD software. You need to test it yourself, tweak it, optimize it.My advice is Math Math Math Solder Solder Solder.

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2013, 07:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: IntegratedValve on October 20, 2013, 06:24:50 pmI have been often asked "Why should I bother with learning Math?"Math is more than a tool, it's more like a crystal ball. "The Great Predictor", if you'd like. Math is used to predict the value of stocks and bonds, predict what path to take to go around the moon and back, predict your profits for the coming year. Even used to predict if your circuit will fail, given certain parameters, if it'll rain tomorrow, the uses for math goes on forever.The Great Predictor is even at work inside your brain.Whenever you are playing catch, you predict where the ball X is going to be within the next T amount of time, and you try to move your hand to that location. During this prediction process your brain is solving hundreds of thousands of differential equations dx/dt (calculus) every second.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 05:09:29 pm
content: Quote from: darko31 on October 20, 2013, 08:53:44 amYou are aspiring to be an engineer, not a technician. Yes, you may not use special relativity every day. But your understanding of special relativity will be one of the bricks in the building that makes you an engineer.You'll have to go through a lot of this sort of thing, so you may as well start enjoying it.As for no numbers, yea engineering nowadays has little to do with numbers. Computers do the numbers, humans need to do the greek letters to program the computer to do the numbers right. (Though if you're interested, there are a few awesome books out there that teach you the high level arithmetic tricks and methods of our grandfathers - to crunch huge numbers in the matter of seconds using nothing but your brain. They are awesome, and you'll almost look like a Vulcan among today's engineers if you master them.)

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 05:46:22 pm
content: Remember that most engineering courses only teach science.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on October 23, 2013, 05:46:22 pmI'm not sure which "most" engineering courses you have reviewed, but that is certainly not the case. Science underpins engineering, but engineering is the application of scientific principles to practical goals. In an engineering course you have to learn the science and the application. You have to learn how to design, how to synthesize, how to construct systems from appropriate pieces and make the whole thing work together, with reference to existing design patterns that others have tested and refined through hard won experience. To "only" learn science would make you useless as an engineer.

author: Dongulus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:32:57 pm
content: Don't worry about being overwhelmed starting out with so much theory. Some here have probably forgotten what it feels like to constantly be drowning in a sea unfamiliar and esoteric knowledge.As a recent college graduate, I hope I can offer some insight. Like everyone else here, I can't deny that math and theory are essential tools. Mathematical models are simplified abstractions that help focus on the bulk of a design and proves to be quicker and better than repeated, unguided trial and error. The problem I always had with learning new theory is that there was always a disconnect between the symbols on a page and something physical. When you approach a new equation start off by building a strong understanding of the physical meaning of each variable in an equation. Once you understand what each variable means, you need to get a sense of the interrelationship of these variables. What I used to do was pretend that each variable had a knob that I could turn. Turn the hypothetical knobs in the following ways: What would happen to the output if I increased this quantity? What if I decreased it? What happens as it approaches infinity? What happens if it goes to zero? Do this for every variable in the equation and it should build a mental model that you can interact with. This will give you an intuition that is valuable for orienting yourself both on tests and in designs.What I also advise you to do is always keep in mind that equations and calculations are not the end-all be-all. Real circuits and systems are the final judge of your work, not a calculator nor your professor. You'll soon find that every single equation you learn will be wrong outside of a very limited range of conditions. When you do get to do some lab experiments, always notice how much your results differ from what you expect and use that to make adjustments your mental model.