Can anyone find some information on this type of stepper motor? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 01:47:28 am
content: Hallo everyoneI disassembled the host to get this stepper motor,There is a similar stamp on the case, but I can't find the exact information or data sheet.So I disassembled it and took a look at its internal structure.If you know its information or how to drive it, please tell me, thanks

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 02:01:52 am
content: What's the frame size? At a guess NEMA23 (2.3", 57mm)?

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 02:24:26 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on September 21, 2024, 02:01:52 amPlease refer to the image data

author: picburner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 03:49:45 am
content: According to the measurements it is NEMA16, but finding the exact specifications is not easy (may be custom).Try here: Guangzhou Ruibao Electrical Co., LtdThey produce a 16HA series.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 04:53:59 am
content: Yes, definitely NEMA16. Based on six leads, unipolar/bipolar, with middle taps, so can be used either as unipolar (6 leads) or bipolar (4 leads). Could be a (or similar to) 16HS13-0166S, 16HS13-0306S, 16HS14-1004S, or 16HS15-0806S stepper motors.I swear I've seen that same logo (stylized tiltedшШ) on some stepper motors, just cannot find the company.If you look at the back end of the motor, you can almost see the printed type information.The stamped RB might refer to Guangzhou Ruibao Electrical Co., Ltd being the original manufacturer, too.I would recommend you measure the DC resistances (and inductances, if possible, at 1 kHz) of the phases (A-O, C-O, A-C; B-M, M-D, B-D; the two sets should not have any electrical connection between them). Here are the properties of four common uni/bipolar steppers of the same size:TypeResistanceInductanceNotes16HS13-0166S75 Ω50 mH16HS13-0306S40 Ω21 mH16HS14-1004S5.2 Ω13 mHA-C/B-D16HS15-0806S7.5 Ω6 mH

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 06:34:23 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 21, 2024, 04:53:59 amI use LCR to measure resistance at 1K HzA-O--117.42 ohmC-O--118.89 ohmA-C--691.6 ohm；B-M--0.266 ohmM-D--11.835 ohmB-D--11.903 ohmUse 1KHZ in the inductance rangeA-O--5.273mhC-O--5.281mhA-C--21.4mh；B-M--0.3uHM-D--164.7uHB-D--173.6uH

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 09:40:02 am
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 21, 2024, 06:34:23 amHmm, it seems I guessed wrong the motor pinout.Could you redo the measurements (both resistance and inductance) between each unique pair among the six pins? There are 15 unique pairs among 6 pins. Then, create two tables of the measurements, one for resistance, the other for inductance, i.e.$$\begin{array}{r|cccccc}\Omega & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 \\\hline1 & & ? & ? & ? & ? & ? \\2 & & & ? & ? & ? & ? \\3 & & & & ? & ? & ? \\4 & & & & & ? & ? \\5 & & & & & & ? \\6 & & & & & & \\\end{array} \quad \begin{array}{r|cccccc}\text{mH} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 \\\hline1 & & ? & ? & ? & ? & ? \\2 & & & ? & ? & ? & ? \\3 & & & & ? & ? & ? \\4 & & & & & ? & ? \\5 & & & & & & ? \\6 & & & & & & \\\end{array}$$I'd expect all but six pairs to have very high resistance. Note: The resistance should be measured using DC, with a multimeter for example, not AC.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 10:27:57 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 21, 2024, 09:40:02 amOK, I used the resistance range of the digital multimeter to measure the resistance.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 03:39:43 pm
content: Are you sure pin 4 isn't accidentally shorted to pin 2 or pin 5, due to some whisker or contact?Expanding your table, we have$$\begin{array}{r|rrrrrr}\Omega & 1~~ & 2~~ & 3~~ & 4~~ & 5~~ & 6~~ \\\hline1 & & 6.4 & 13.7 & 6.5 & 7.2 & 12.8 \\2 & 6.4 & & 6.2 & 0.4 & 0.2 & 5.8 \\3 & 13.7 & 6.2 & & 6.4 & 6.3 & 12.6 \\4 & 6.5 & 0.4 & 6.4 & & 0.2 & 6.0 \\5 & 7.2 & 0.2 & 6.3 & 0.2 & & 5.7 \\6 & 12.8 & 5.8 & 12.6 & 6.0 & 5.7 & \\\end{array} \quad \begin{array}{r|rrrrrr}\text{mH} & 1~~ & 2~~ & 3~~ & 4~~ & 5~~ & 6~~ \\\hline1 & & 5.3 & 21.4 & 5.3 & 5.3 & 5.5 \\2 & 5.3 & & 5.3 & & & \\3 & 21.4 & 5.3 & & 5.3 & 5.3 & 5.5 \\4 & 5.3 & & 5.3 & & & \\5 & 5.3 & & 5.3 & & & \\6 & 5.5 & & 5.5 & & & \\\end{array}$$The typical unipolar 6-pin pinout is A1 C A2 B1 C B2, ie. pins 1 and 3 for one coil, pins 4 and 6 for another coil. As pins 2 and 5 are definitely shorted, this cannot be used in a bipolar configuration; it is strictly an unipolar stepper (assuming pin 4 is accidentally shorted).Above, R(A1-C) = 6.4Ω, R(C-A2) = 6.2Ω, and R(A1-A2) = 13.7Ω, which matches. If pin 4 is shorted to pin 5, then everything makes sense; for example, R(A1-B2) = R(A1-C) + R(C-B2) = 6.4Ω + 5.7Ω ≃ 12.8Ω.Compare to e.g. 39H037H-0706, which has phase resistance of 6.2Ω and phase inductance of 6.9 mH, length 37mm, maximum current 0.7A (and nominal voltage 4.3V, but these are typically driven current-limited using higher voltage); or to 39BYGH38-0806A or 39BYG504, which have phase resistance of 7.5Ω and inductance of 6 mH, length 38mm, maximum current 0.8A (and nominal voltage of 6V); or to MS16HS4P6085, which has a phase resistance of 5.8Ω and inductance of 4.7 mH, maximum current 0.85A (and uses a JST ZH connector with 0.5mm pitch but using only every second pin, thus having 1.0mm pitch between pins).

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2024, 11:10:22 pm
content: Thanks.I installed an insulating socket on pin 4 to prevent contact shorting.I conducted the repeatability test again, and below are the test results

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 07:42:22 am
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 21, 2024, 11:10:22 pmNo, I meant an actual problem with the motor wiring, not in your measurements; perhaps a tin whisker on the board, or the old flux having become conductive. I would consider using IPA or acetone and an old toothbrush to clean the board if possible, then inspecting with a magnifying lens to check.(I might even desolder the wires to measure them directly and clean both sides of the board.)If you look at the board, you can see the pins 1-6 lettered A O C B M D, which corresponds to unipolar wiring (often labeled A common B C common D); but the readings from pin 4/B indicates it is shorted to pin 5/M or pin 2/O –– pins 2/O and 5/M being normally shorted together in unipolar stepper motors.Other than that pin 4/B, it looks very similar to the unipolar steppers I mentioneded in #8. The resistances and inductances are often listed by manufacturers with ±10% tolerances, so don't expect to see a perfect match.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 09:13:01 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 22, 2024, 07:42:22 amOK, according to your suggestion, I cleaned the PCB.I found that the red arrow seemed to have overheating marks and the plastic melted.I will try to disconnect the green arrow position wire and test the resistance value of position "B" again.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 10:39:44 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on September 22, 2024, 07:42:22 amI found a similar definition diagram, I don't know if it is this definition.I am a beginner in stepper motors and this is my first time disassembling a stepper motor.I don't know if I can repair this stepper motor at the moment. It looks like its circuit is very complicated and I have no idea where to start.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 11:55:29 am
content: I disassembled the PCB above, see the picture, I don't know how to repair it next

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 12:00:08 pm
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 22, 2024, 10:39:44 amI believe it is, and that you labeled it exactly correctly.Quote from: daisizhou on September 22, 2024, 10:39:44 amI have maybe a dozen different types, but I am a hobbyist only. My background is in physics, and I do have some formal education in electronics, but mostly, I just read datasheets.Quote from: daisizhou on September 22, 2024, 10:39:44 amDid you already check the board with a multimeter, to verify the traces on the PCB are not shorted?If the traces (4/B to 5/M or 2/O) on the PCB are not shorted, then it is likely one of the 4/B coils overheated, causing the wire lacquer to flow, and thus the short.Quote from: daisizhou on September 22, 2024, 11:55:29 amDid you check the PCB yet for shorts?If the short is in a coil, repair would mean re-winding that coil. I wouldn't even want to try to do that. Hopefully, the short was on the board only, and now gone?Can you now measure the wire-to-wire resistances (DC)? That alone will tell if there is a short. If there is no short anymore, then measuring the inductances, just to be sure, would help.If there is no short anymore, then soldering the wires back to the cleaned PCB would bring the motor back to working order.Fortunately, there are several replacements available that should work for you in this case. The hardest part to obtain is the exact gear, so I would definitely try to extract and reuse that with a new motor. Moons Industries MS16HS4P6085 (see page 30 in the Catalog under Hybrid Stepper Motors atMoons' Product Center) is the closest match I found online; I bet you can find an even better match by looking for a "NEMA 16 unipolar 6-wire stepper motor (39mm×39mm×36mm) with 5.8Ω to 7.0Ω phase resistance and 4.8mH to 5.8mH phase inductance", if you can visit Huaqiangbei Market in Shenzhen. Try to match the resistance on the upper end, so that your new stepper is less likely to burn out. (Higher DC resistance, lower DC current.)Unipolar steppers can be simpler to drive than bipolar, since only one of the A1/B1/A2/B2 pins is energized at the same time, and only one polarity is needed. This is why Darlington drivers like ULN2003A are so popular with these: you just use a voltage that does not cause too high currents (that would heat up the stepper). ULN2003A itself drops about a volt, so when run from 5V, the stepper coil voltage is about 4V, and the current about 600mA. (Compare to bipolar steppers, which need either a full H-bridge, or a dedicated stepper driver IC.) Personally, I do prefer the bipolar ones, since DIP-footprint drivers like TMC2100 are easy to interface to and produce superior results (torque, sound) given the same size.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 12:34:55 pm
content: The PCB circuit board is normal.The fault occurs inside the coil,The complicated winding method makes me confused.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 01:28:35 pm
content: As Nominal indicated above, follow that advice!!The TMC2100 is from the Trinamic family, we had extensive experience with Trinamic Stepper Motor Controllers dating back over a decade ago when we were searching for a better controller for a new type camera system for taking chip images we had been developing since ~2000. The Trinamic controller chips we used were complicated and Trinamic provided little CS help since we weren't going to buy 10,000 chips/year. After suffering through the unsupported experimental developmental phases with these controllers we ended up with a fine tuned system that allowed sub-micron lens resolution, was almost silent, and had extremely smooth but very quick acceleration/speed/deceleration with excellent position repeatability. The Trinamic control algorithms are involved, but once mastered they perform!! They part of ADI now, so maybe CS is better!!BTW stay away from the TI DRV type controllers (some Toshiba also), they had a horrible dead zone high-hysteresis transfer functions way back when we evaluated them, hopefully TI has fixed this by now!!Our needs were extreme back then, but did provide an expensive learning curve for precision positioning which later led us into the nanometer Piezo Positioning actuators and a custom controller.We can attempt { memory is failing} to recall more details if interested.Best,

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 02:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: daisizhou on September 22, 2024, 12:34:55 pmI would say the motor is gone.It can be fixed by rewinding the coils, but it is definitely well outside my skills.I would recommend replacing the stepper motor.Quote from: mawyatt on September 22, 2024, 01:28:35 pmTMC2100 and TMC2xxx are extremely common in 3D printers, because they provide near-silent operation; very desirable for desktop devices. (daisizhou, do note that these are forbipolarstepper motors, with 4 wires.)As there are a number of different bipolar stepper driver chipsets that take STEP and DIR inputs, the RepRap community ended up with a 16-pin DIP form factor, "stepstick". I don't recall what the first one was, but Allegro A4988 was very popular before the Trinamic ones. The TMC2100 ones are often called "SilentStepStick" (as created byWatterott); seeRepRap TMC2100page.These are ridiculously simple to use. On one side, you connect your microcontroller to the STEP and DIR inputs, plus optionally the EN(able) pin. You can also configure the microstepping on the same side, by connecting to logic power (3-5V) or GND. The logic power is on the other side, marked VIO. On the other side, you connect the motor voltage (VM, 6V to 45V), the four bipolar coils (M1B, M1A, M2A, M2B), and GND. You must never detach/remove the stepper while there is power. The coil current is set using a small potentiometer on the board; easiest is to measure the reference voltage and calculate the current (RMS or average for TMCs, peak for some others). I recommend setting it somewhat less than maximum, so the steppers won't heat up (and melt the varnish off their coils).DIR determines the direction, and each pulse on the STEP signal does a microstep in that direction. If you're more interested in RPM/velocity, you can use PWM, and vary the period/frequency. (A nifty trick is to also connect the PWM pin to a capture pin, and count rising/falling edges, to count the exact number of pulses too.) Forshenanigans, you can use a fixed-frequency PDM loop, i.e. an accumulator you add the current rate/speed to, and use the highest bit for the STEP pin.Other TMC StepStick variants have additional controls via SPI or UART on the additional pins. Depending on where and which variants you buy, these cost between 2€ and 10€.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2024, 03:28:42 pm
content: We were using the Trinamic chips before the StepStick appeared, altho we did order a few of these when they appeared but never used them (vaguely remember a problem with them early on as they didn't bring out a critical terminal, which required a PCB respin). Custom PCB TopHats were developed for connection to the Raspberry Pi to control various things via SPI including the Trinamic chips, which all ran from 12VDC including 5V regulator for the RPI. We also used most of the advanced Trinamic Algorithms embedded in the higher end chips, things like 256 micro-stepping, pseudorandom motor current chopping, dynamic motor current control, position pulse counting, speed profiles and rates, acceleration profiles, deceleration profiles, stall detection and so on. All these proved useful in our unique application.Started off with the A4988, then tried the Toshiba and TI devices until we found Trinamic, then began experimenting with them. These were for driving various 256 step motors, from NEMA 11, 14 and 23 types which engaged 0.5 and 1mm pitch precision THK Linear rails of various sizes/lengths. We developed custom PCBs for the various Trinamic devices which mounted directly on top the RPi via the 40 pin connector, which also hosted the motor connectors up to 4 motors for X,Y,Z,R which could be driven from the PCBs. All this was controlled from custom developed Python programs hosted on the RPi. We used the TMC5130, 5130A, 5172, 5160 and TMC5161.Often the chip image capture sessions ran for many hours, even days which were creating long image stacking sessions for increased depth-of-field at high magnifications for eventual rendering GigaPixel level chip images.Custom lenses were also developed specifically for this purpose. We can try and find images of all these things if OP or others are interested.Best,