Kickstarter "Crystal Board: FPGA - Arduino - ARM SoC in a single device" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: xuio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 09:29:31 pm
content: look what I just found:http://kck.st/1d83nda

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 09:41:22 pm
content: If they can get this all done for $150, that's pretty awesome. Depending on what the final project actually looks like, I'll probably buy one.

author: filip_cro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 09:46:51 pm
content: So you are saying: Quad-core 1.8 GHZ ARM, Spartan 6 and (Arduino) ATmega328Is possible to use it with standard tools from Xilinx ?

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 09:51:20 pm
content: Quote from: filip_cro on December 24, 2013, 09:46:51 pmI wondered that, do you think they'll just give you some really weird programming tool that somehow utilizes all of them? This is a weird concept, but a very interesting one

author: filip_cro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:04:12 pm
content: They have "premium software pack" for 30$. Arduino IDE is c**p and using something similar for FPGA will be hell. But why use ATmega anyway, when you have ARM ??They write that they give us JTAG pins, but you will need debugger.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:05:35 pm
content: Just an SPI link between SoC and FPGA seems a pretty serious and unnecessary limitation.Really can't see the point of the ATMega on there.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:09:18 pm
content: I don't think I really understand this dev board to be honest. Is it just an integrated version of all the different types of dev board out there? Or is it just supposed to be for projects involving all types of device linked together?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:34:54 pm
content: I was wondering why they needed $200K for this, then I saw they need software developers.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:36:40 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 24, 2013, 10:34:54 pmHeck.. they want to hire product-liability lawyers...<shiver>

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 10:51:07 pm
content: I'm really struggling to see why you'd want this combination of things on one board - it's rarely going to be a good fit compared to using more dedicated boards for the bits you need. There are plenty of different, cheap boards for all the 3 major functions, so why would you not just choose the best fit from these?

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 24, 2013, 10:51:07 pmThe FPGA bit is drawing me in, I've been struggling to find an affordable, good dev board for FGPAs.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 24, 2013, 11:27:15 pmYou can't have been looking very hard - there are hundreds of FPGA boards out there covering pretty much all price ranges and feature sets

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 11:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 24, 2013, 11:52:36 pmI have, honestIs there anything you could recommend for a beginner to FGPAs? In maybe the sub £100 range?

author: trackman44
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 12:19:43 am
content: Not too long ago people had PDAs and regular old cell/mobile phones, then one day Steve Jobs combined the two and gave us the iPhone. I think this is a great idea. As long as all the parts communicate well together (FPGA with ARM processor and/or Arduino) it should cover all the basics and bases.Will

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 12:41:22 am
content: Mojo V3 is a nice fpga board for ~70 euro

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 01:17:32 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 24, 2013, 10:51:07 pmSome students at the university in Chemnitz: "smoked sausage with mustard tastes good!" other students nod in agreement, "ya real good". "pickles taste good", "ya real good". "Chocolate cake tastes good", "ya real good". "So lets bake a cake with all that stuff, - YUM!".Notice how all the parts are connected, it is just a low bandwidth assemblage of chips. Oh and that ARM is a rockchip - I thought those weren't well documented. Not for standard Linux distribution purposes anyway, so you are stuck with Andriod configured by chinese engineers. Good luck with that as sponge-bob square pants would say.What is missing these days is an old fashioned standard bus interconnect system/card cage, where the user can add more or less independent single purpose cards. Rather than these all in one wonder cards or some limited mezzanine-shield expansion elements that cover up the main board. Those rhombus technology eoma peeps were sort of going in the right direction but they are too slow and clueless in actual execution of the concept.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 01:34:57 am
content: It seems like the only purpose is to not have three different dev boards that are all better individually than the sum total on a single board.That use case doesn't seem to be very convincing.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 03:11:34 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 24, 2013, 11:58:08 pmMy current low cost favorite, the icestick:http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/icestick-evaluation-board/40913Only $25 at both digikey and mouser.For a more comprehensive list, see:http://tristesse.org/FPGA/CheapFPGADevelopmentBoards

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 07:54:41 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on December 25, 2013, 03:11:34 amGreat, thanks

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 01:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 24, 2013, 10:05:35 pmIt's to lure in the 'tArduino crowd. They are happy to spend lots of money on stuff they don't really know how to use.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 02:58:08 am
content: It's a generic chinese ARM SoC board with a tiny QFP minimum size spartan-6 hanging off it. (6 series = you must use ISE webpack)If there isn't a high bandwidth link between the two (as there should be) the devs are truly hopeless.Just get a beaglebone black and stick one of various fpga boards (capes?) on it and you'll come out ahead both in price and actual usefulness.If you want a beginner FPGA board you couldn't do much worse. (did they even bother putting a ftdi xilinx platform cable on it? doubt it, which means you'll need to spend $50 on such a cable)Quote from: Dave on December 25, 2013, 01:05:26 pmyes that's all it is.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:55:15 am
content: Quote from: marshallh on December 26, 2013, 02:58:08 amJudging by the block diagram there's only an SPI link. Primarily for SPI config, and then as an afterthought maybe possibly some communication after the configuration phase is complete. Because who needs bandwidth anyways? Oh wait, I do. And lots of other people. Well, guess we won't be backing this one then.QuoteNo kidding. Cheaper, higher bandwidth interconnect, and oh yeah you can buy it now.QuoteOf course not. Surely spi config is sufficient during development? Chipscope or some actual debugging? Pfffrt.Quote*grin* That isexactlyhow I read that <plonk_in_avr> as well. At least there the lack of "high" speed integration doesn't matter so much.. But they couldn't find an Arm SoC with DMA capable GPIO so you can at least connect that to a fifo in the fpga? This spi link is just silly.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:12:32 am
content: This board could have been so much better if:- The FPGA was a serious beast, with onboard S(D)RAM- The FPGA had a serious interconnection between MCU and SoC- The SoC actually had someusefulreal-world interfaces. USB hub makes PCs, I want to see half a dozen serial ports, RS485 ports or even CAN bus.They could easily target industrial applications if they have just added 2 or 4 RS232 ports and LVDS video.- The MCU to be actually useful. ATMEGA328P is a joke compared to the rest.Plop a STM32F407 or LPC1700/1800(Mbed?) on there. What they target is a ADC to UART chip, and doeverything elseon the SoC.Oh and, what's up with the sound of the promo video? I can't hear it, even with sound at 100% on this laptop machine

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:46:55 am
content: "Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator about 5 hours ago."Oh well...

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:13:56 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 26, 2013, 10:46:55 amMaybe they came to their senses.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:23:43 am
content: >plus $30 for source codedev board with no code?not to mention there is no documentation for Rockchip at allEdit:Creator Red Crystal >I did also try external HDD via USB 2.0. The transfer rate was around 40 - 50MB/sthats the fastest USB 2.0 HDD in the world, wonder where else project creator was creative with numbers

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:58:22 pm
content: Well whatwouldbe a sensible interface between the ARM chip and the FPGA?RK3188 connectivity:USB 2.0HSICI2SGPSUARTSPIMAC (RMII)SDIO 3.0I2CHSADC TS I/F (10 bit)GPIO (128x)Some memory interfacesSRAM, DDR

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: BBQ on December 26, 2013, 10:58:22 pmSRAM should give decent bandwidth & flexibility if it was a seperate interface to the main DRAM of the processor. Even better if you can DMA to/from it.GPIO, if it was writeable in reasonable sized widths (16 bit) at decent speed, ideally with DMA.SDIO would be reasonable if not, as you should be able to get a reasonable bandwidth without complex protocol in the FPGA.

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:20:31 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 26, 2013, 11:31:40 pmThere is a DMA controller in it using AXI interface, which is a part of the AMBA interconnect.How much hassle that is to implement is another question, i guess it is made just for stuff like this.Anyway, no one got hurt and we all learned something hopefully.https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/blob/master/HARDWARE/RK3188-PDFs/Rockchip%20RK3188%20brief%20v1.0.pdf

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 10:03:43 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 24, 2013, 11:58:08 pmHave a look at my list ofcheap FPGA development boardsfor a great big list and some general recommendations. I usually advise getting a board that has some interesting stuff on it like DDR memory, 100/1000 Mbit Ethernet and HDMI - the things you generally can't use with a cheap microcontroller and will keep you busy for a while.For an absolute beginner I might recommend the Digilent Nexys 2, only because there's a decent beginner book that has examples for it - FPGA Prototyping by Verilog/VHDL Examples (though the book is not cheap!). Or maybe a Digilent Basys 2 or Papilio One and follow theHamsterworks FPGA Course.Once you've mastered the basics and the software, you'll be able to use any dev board given the schematics and some data sheets.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2013, 05:53:30 pm
content: I'm keeping an eye on Parallela, if those boards work out well it's a pretty awesome FPGA development board for the price.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2014, 01:34:13 am
content: I wonder if there was a trademark issue? Red Crystal is a trademark owned by the International Red Cross, used a lot I think in the hot areas of Israel/Palestine to remove any religious overtones of their service.