is DALI lighting never used in domestic installations? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ballanux
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:20:25 pm
content: I want "smart" lighting at home, but I don't like smart lightbulbs... actually, I would try to make the whole installation without lightbulbs at all, just LED luminaries (downlights, panels, strips, etc). I would want to be able to dimm all of them and in some cases also control the light temperature (bedroom and living room).I see that most people are either using smart lightbulbs or sonoff wifi switches... but if this is going to be for the complete home I don't want to rely on the wifi not going down. I have been researching DALI lighting and seems the ideal solution, yet I see almost nobody using it at home. I suppose this is really intended for industrial and commercial applications.I found a few post here about DALI product development and also in the openhab forums, but even openHab doesn't seem to support DALI natively (just with a KNX bridge).So, my question is... is just crazy to use DALI at home? for sure the luminaries and switches aren't cheap, and the options are more limited, but is there some catch I'm not seeing?I would like the system to be able to work by itself, but also be connected to an openHab server. I would have to pass the DALI pair throught all the conduits in the house and find appropiate luminaries in each case, or convert existing ones by changing the original power supply. I would also have to use a DALI power supply for the bus and I would need a USB dali master to make the commisioning and configuration of the devices.Does anyone have experience with commisioning/configuration of DALI devices? is the process generic independently of the manufacturer? or do I need specific software for each one? (Lunatone, tridonic, L-tech, etc). I have bought a power supply, one dali switch and one LED dali power supply and I hope to begin experimenting when I get themAny other recommendation?

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 02:12:02 pm
content: Hi,I was in the same boat about 18 months ago, wanted a reliable, wired system that interface to standard (momentary) wall switches. KNX seems too expensive and complicated, DALI looked to be exactly what I needed. For me it's important that it "just works", I don't want "support calls" from family members and having to explain to them how to reboot some stupid gateway or whatever just to be able to turn the lights on when they come home…So far I've not regretted my decision to go with DALI.I don't have any specific DALI luminaries, instead I'm using standard LED downlights with DALI-compatible LED-drivers as well as trailing edge dimmers. To interface with switches I'm usingLunatone DALI-GC-A. I did buy (and this I regret) aniLumTech DALI DeeBridgesince this had, what looked to be, a nice app for remote control AND it could be used to commission the system, it's not been what I hoped for and I'm not using it at all. So at the moment I don't have any automation, remote/web/app control etc but at least I can control the lights using the wall mounted switches - and it "just works" :-)For commisioning I ended up with aTridonic DALI-USBinterface. It, and their software works fine and is easy to use. It also has a bus monitoring feature which can come in handy if/when I get to maby doing some automation stuff on my own. As far as I know they do not provide any API or protocol specification for it but I wanted (and needed) something to get my system up and running properly and will look at replacing the DeeBridge later. I'll probably go with something like the Foxtron DALI-RS232 and an RaspberryPi - but again, that's for the optional extra geeky stuff.TheTridonic DALI-USBinterface can commision DALI-devices from any manufacturer. I'm sure there are exceptions with some niche devices but in my experience the basic functionallity like assigning addresses, setting groups, min/max levels, dimming speed and stuff like that is independent of brand. I have drivers and dimmers from three (I think) different manufacturers and haven't had any issues commisioning them with Tridonic interface.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 02:29:21 pm
content: I'm using DALI for a single light which I guess you wouldn't consider a "domestic" installation (more of a bed modification that something built into the walls). But I also have not regretted it, it's lovely. None of this meshing and pairing nonsense, it just works.Note that to save cost in the controlled lights, the DALI control wires are (or at least should be assumed to be) live (they are ELV, but not SELV). Just something to be aware of, the wires don't need much insulation between them, but should have a 600V rated sheath around the whole lot. It actually makes sense since the DALI wires share the ceiling with mains cables anyway, so it would just be deceiving to pretend it was SELV.I would advise AGAINST the USB-DALI interface I got though. It's called "hasseb USB DALI Master with integrated bus power supply", and unfortunately I could only discover once I received it that its PCB layout is apparently done by someone with absolutely no knowledge about high voltage isolation. The possibly-live control wires are separated from the USB circuitry by sub-mm track spacings, it's just absolutely stupid and dangerous. It also has some weird three-position power switch, and I have to do some weird dance with the switch to bring the system back online whenever there's a powercut. I assume that a competently designed device, like perhaps the Tridonic part mentioned by H.O, wouldn't have any of these issues.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2019, 02:55:55 pm
content: Good point about the wiring! Just use the same type of cable/hookup wire as the rest of the electrical installation. The recommended dimension is 0.75mm² and that's what I'm using, I opted to use red but apparently Purple is a common color for DALI.Speaking of wiring, another good thing about DALI is that doesn't care about polarity of the bus, just connect the two wires and you're done.The Tridonic interface is optically isolated between the USB side and the DALI-side and there's like 7-8mm clearence between the two sides. It's just an interface though, no power supply. I bought a cheap one on AliExpress which, at the moment, is the part that I'm most worried about. It's been working perfectly fine but if/when it fails the whole system is down so I'll probably get me something from a reputable manufacturer and keep the Chinese one as a spare.

author: ballanux
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2019, 01:16:55 pm
content: Thank you both for the great advice!!I was holding on buying a USB interface and I was considering the haseeb one, so is great to know I should avoid it. I wonder if each software works only with its device or if it's something general... I will probably buy the tridonic one as I also want to get some tunable white tridonic LED drivers...Anyway, I will go slow by testing with only one or two lights before commiting to the complete home. I'm aware about the bus not being SELV, I will also need to be careful when adding the cable into the junction boxes... some of them are quite full.For the power supply I bought a cheap one on aliexpress, I didn't want to buy a 100$+ supply before making sure I will use it, but I will buy a second one for sure

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2019, 04:40:51 pm
content: QuoteAlthough the commands on the DALI-bus will be the same for all interfaces the protocol used between the interface and the PC-software will, with 99% certainty, be unique for each interface/manufacturer.You will not be able to use the Tridonic software with a FoxCON interface etc.Intersesting thing though, I took apart the Tridonic interface and on the PCB it said Lunatone so obviously the hardware is from Another manufacturer, that doesn't mean the firmware is the same though.