Any comment on Keysight 34450A continuity? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 01:27:35 am
content: I'm looking around for a simple bench DMM. The Keysight 34450A (not the EDU version!) is interesting but I'm wondering if it has fast continuity and whether the beeper is loud enough to hear. I can't find any reviews that test the continuity. Can anyone comment on this?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 04:04:44 am
content: https://youtu.be/mfSAFSKHnI0?t=241

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 07:03:25 am
content: I'd say it is pretty weak overall and have a hard time recommending it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 12:03:56 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on March 09, 2024, 04:04:44 amThanks you! I would not have found that by myself.Beep sounds like it is loud enough for me.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 12:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 09, 2024, 07:03:25 amThere are rumors that it's not an Agilent design, they just licensed it. I would rather pick up a 34410A or a 34401A used before this meter, but that's just my opinion.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 12:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 09, 2024, 07:03:25 amIn what ways? I'm not looking for high accuracy. Quick boot time, big / clear display (so no VFD), capacitance measurement, fast continuity, >=10A current ability, hard power switch and absolutely NO FAN are important things I look for besides the regular DMM features.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 10:49:57 pm
content: The OLED screen is the nicest thing you will ever see (until it dims and dies).When I had mine I was just disappointed in the general response of the DMM - it just felt slow in all respects. There was nothing actually wrong with it, it all worked as expected - but for me it was just too slow. I have a 34461A and it is just so much nicer(but yes costs quite a bit more).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 11:03:38 pm
content: On Welectron you have Keysight 34460A for less price than that 34450A .I agree that for best accuracy and such you might not go with non A brands.But for 5.5 digit meter for general bench work you might as well get Siglent, GW Instek or something else.For instance Siglent SDM3065 might not be best 6.5 digit meter out there, but will run circles around 34450A.Rigol DM3065 also but I would not recommend it because of screen.But 34450A is overpriced mediocre stuff.Either get one of B brands or just go with 34460A in that price range. My opinion.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 11:10:27 pm
content: I did a cursory look and the 34450A seems to share some aspects of the 34405A such as the locations of the rear USB, power and ground locations and some front panel layout cues. Many of the 34405A units have a label that states they are made in Taiwan, although some do say made in Malaysia. HighVoltage posted in another thread that the 34405A was not an Agilent design, but provided nothing further and I didn't dig much more than that. So it's reasonable that the 34405A/34450A came from another company and perhaps some units were initially manufactured by that company, but eventually all manufacturing was moved to Agilent/Keysight's factories in Malaysia with some money changing hands in the process. Maybe B&K Precision or Picotest, or one of their subcontractors.Given that this is a 5.5 digit DMM, I don't see there being an issue with where the design came from or originally made it. You're not going to need deep design history to make it work well enough.The large display is great if you need to read it from across the street, and some of the other uses of the display are somewhat interesting with regard to the statistics and dual display.However, I had considered the 34450A in the past but the OLED display concerned me a little bit. It can suffer from burn-in as well as dimming over time. Ultimately I snagged a 34461A when a deal came up. The current Keysight promo on the 34465A is pretty good if you can afford the extra spend. As I mentioned in another thread, the best option for that promo is to get the U1733C as the free item, although I'm not sure how that all works if you're not in the US.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 11:40:19 pm
content: Well, I already have a Keysight 34461A but I don't like it as a daily driver for several reasons. The continuity beeper has so much delay that I'll have repositioned the probes before it starts to beep. I need continuity to be instant. And the fan is annoying as hell.If the 34450A has not been designed by Keysight, this could be a good thing. I'm not too worried about the Oled display as it seems this is a commonly available display so easy to source and replace. Maybe I'll try and hunt down a used unit.After looking into a whole bunch of DMMs (including those of GW Instek, BK, Rigol and Siglent), the only alternative DMM that seems to tick most of the boxes is the UNI-T UT8805E

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 11:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 09, 2024, 11:40:19 pmSounds like you're running it with extremely outdated firmware, like 1.x or early 2.x

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:03:18 am
content: Continuity on my 34461A is instant. Maybe yours has an issue that could be corrected, such as probes or firmware? I'm using the probes that came with it as well as the latest firmware.The fan noise is absolutely an issue and I replaced mine as soon as I got it. I went with the Noctua NF-A4-20 5V and am running it a bit slower as well just to make it essentially silent. Zero impact to the accuracy. I suggest the 20mm instead of the 10mm to get the airflow closer to stock. Also be sure to use the rubber mounts.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:07:53 am
content: Quote from: J-R on March 10, 2024, 12:03:18 amRubber mounts are only somewhat useful if the fan is an unbalanced garbage that is mounted on something thin and lightweight. Otherwise they have no positive effect.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:22:41 am
content: The 34461A continuity is much better than the 34450A. I have no issues with it(except for a brief period when it sucked with older firmware). I've never had an issue with the fan in my 34461A, it has always been quiet with no annoying high frequency component etc. It is the quietest fan in any of my bench devices. You could also disable the fan altogether if you don't mind more thermal drift. The 34460A has no fan.The 34405A was not made by HPAK, I do believe the 34450A was(but not by the same division that makes the 3446x.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:58:55 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 09, 2024, 11:59:47 pmMy unit was on older firmware indeed (I got one of the early models when it came out around 2015). I have downloaded newer versions but never got to installing it until now. I have not checked whether continuity is better or not.Quote from: TheSteve on March 10, 2024, 12:22:41 amContinuity being worse on the 34450A is good info. Fortunately my lab is rather quiet so the fan noise does stick out. But maybe getting a 34460A isn't such a bad idea after all; still I'd really like the hard power switch.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 01:02:25 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 10, 2024, 12:58:55 amNote that you need to update 1.x to 2.17 first, many people miss that requirement and soft brick their meter.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 01:06:46 am
content: BTW later firmware also added capacitance measurement on shift-frequency button.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 03:36:54 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 09, 2024, 11:40:19 pmI'm not sure why there isn't more robust competition at this level. Everyone has their own idea of what features they need and it shouldn't be that hard to just pack them all in there like they do with handhelds. It seems like the best option to get something usable in most cases is to just move up a notch to a 6.5-digit model. Not everyone wants 5 different meters on their bench.I'm curious what you found that didn't work with the BK and Siglent models. I haven't actually seen a 5492C yet but it looks like a match for what you need? Also, the Siglent SDM3045X hacked with the firmware for the otherwise unavailable SDM3055X-E looks like a possible option at $400 in the US.The Fluke 8808A does everything you want except capacitance--and it has a few neat additional features as well. The continuity is reasonably quick and latching, Morse-code fast but not pin scanning fast. The display is VFD, but it is bright with fat segments and easily visible 10 feet away in a bright room. Unfortunately at the price they go for new or used the value proposition is not good--although not worse than the Keysight 34450A in my view.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 11:10:02 am
content: The problem is that many meters have a VFD display and / or a fan. Currently I'm using a VC8145 bench DMM which is a handheld in a box. It does everything I need but the autoranging is a bit slow. And the box doesn't have quite the right size to stack other equipment on top.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:07:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 10, 2024, 12:58:55 amI have 60, 61 (currently in whitescreen mode) and 70. I like the 60 as it's silent/fanless but Keysight have hobbled it in annoying ways compared to the 61: 3A max, no rear sockets, no trend chart (only digits or histogram), and needs a license purchase to get the ethernet functional. I would say buy the 61 and disable the fan if it annoys.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2024, 12:14:44 pm
content: Here's a random suggestion:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/aim-tti-1908-5-12-digit-benchtop-multimeter-(preview)/I have one and the internal battery option is very useful for me, pick up and go. Only issue I've had is scpi related, firmware chokes if you send commands too quick. Nicely built unit IMHO.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 05:33:51 pm
content: By coincidence I had the chance to try a 34450A while visiting an electronics lab today. The display is really nice but I find the continuity to act way too slow. So back the the drawing board.

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 05:54:33 pm
content: Just out of curiousity, why does it seem to be so crucial to have 5 1/2 digits resolution, bench form factor AND fast continuity beep in one device?I wouldn't like to change the settings of a complex instrument for some through-the-plug-beeping, so I´m really glad if I have a 5$-Ali-Bo-Ba-Bangsgood device for that.I absolutely understand it´s annoying if an expensive meter is just not perfect in all aspects. But beside this moral annoyance I really can't understand the problem - can anyone teach me?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 06:23:42 pm
content: I have been thinking about getting two devices as well. But the problem is that I'll have two sets of test leads onto a bench which is already crowded with wires. Somehow test leads get tangled quickly which is annoying. So having least test leads as possible leads to a more efficient workflow.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 07:09:30 pm
content: Just to add my experience with the 34450A:I had it brad new for one day and disliked it so much, I returned it to the dealer right away.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 07:13:48 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 09, 2024, 11:59:47 pmOne of the firmware updates also improved the boot time quite a bit, as I recall. If that is a pain point, you definitely want to upgrade.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2024, 07:24:14 pm
content: I know it might not be what you are looking for but, what about a "shorty" pen? It is a short-circuit finder with the circuitry integrated into a pen-like shape with one of the probes.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/finding-short-on-motherboards-with-a-shorty-(with-display)/msg4618285/#msg4618285The fastest continuity DMM I have tested is the BM867s, followed by the 3461A. The Siglent SDM3045X-E is slower, but you can customize the threshold resistance to make it decently fast.