Saleae Logic Pro 16 V's Rigol MSO5000 series - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Ross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 03:44:47 am
content: Hi All,From what I have heard, the Saleae logic Analyzers a very good, the PC software is very useful for protocol analysis. If you shop around it is possible to get a Rigol MSO5000 series scope for the same price. So why would you buy the Saleae instead of the Rigol (Rigol has more features beyond logic analyzer and has similar specs to the Saleae).Anyone used both devices and wants to give an opinion, or link in another thread where this discussion has been had?One specific question, my understanding is that the Saleae can save protocol decode data out until the PC hdd is full. Is this kind of operation possible on the Rigol (or is the amount of data limited to sample depth etc).?Thanks,Ross

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 04:01:15 am
content: It's a different way of working. The Rigol is real time where the Salae has to record the data then analyze it later. The upside is that you can record long sequences and use mouse/keyboard/PC for deeper analysis of decoded data packets.Quote from: Ross on August 14, 2023, 03:44:47 amNo.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 04:45:15 am
content: Depends on what protocols you need decode as the advanced ones are optional extras for many scopes.Siglent led the way with free decoders in DSO's some years back with IIC, SPI, UART, CAN, and LIN as standardnotoptional capability.Others you need pay for both decodingandtriggering capabilities.

author: mdredmond
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 01:37:22 pm
content: I've got an MSO5104 and a Saleae Logic Pro 8. I've never used the MSO's logic analyzer features but use the Saleae all the time. By the way, I can't imagine needing 16 channels of input. Most times I'm just debugging serial data and I've occasionally used four channels.One thing I'd love to see in Saleae's software is the ability to discard long periods of silence. It collects so many samples that you really have to zoom out on the data and then zoom back into areas of interest. Apparently it can be scripted and I suppose a plug-in that does this wouldn't be too hard to write. With only that quibble, it's been an amazing tool and has saved me lots of time.

author: jmw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 07:09:10 pm
content: The Logic client software has a lot more protocol decoders standard and is scriptable and extendable. Each protocol you want with the Rigol is another option ($$$) and if they don't have the one you want, you're SOL.Even the Saleae Pro models are only useful for low-speed protocols. It seems most serial is well below 25 MHz (non-Pro) or way faster than 100 MHz (Pro models). If you're fine with the fixed threshold level and 8 channels, the non-pro model is just as good.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 10:46:23 pm
content: Depends mostly on your preferences, process flow, bandwidth requirements, etcYou can find some discussions, search logic analyzer here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/logic-analyzer-tla5202-vs-usb-analyzers-(probe-density-features-speed)/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/searching-for-the-best-logic-analyser-software-offering/You'll always have some people saying scope + integrated LA is there preference, and others (mdredmond and I for example) who prefer to use a PC based tool.For embedded dev, IMO, to me it makes sense to click Start on the LA, then step your debugger or whatever, then you can instantly look at the waveform result on the PC. Of course you could use remote access for the oscilloscope as well if you want.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2023, 11:56:03 pm
content: Triggering on MSO scopes will be superior.LA are great for capturing lots of data in one big chunk and sifting through it on PC.MSO scope with good triggering will be able to trigger only on some packets, errors etc..Tool for the job.

author: Ross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 12:25:06 am
content: Thanks everyone for your opinions. Just a clarify, I agree 16 channels is a lot, the reason I made the comparison is the Rigol has 16 channels standard (although you have to purchase the cable as an extra).I guess if you don't have any test gear then a MSO covers all the bases.It is a pity that test gear manufactures do not allow fro continuous output of logic signals, to me that is a useful feature.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 01:12:21 am
content: Quote from: Ross on August 15, 2023, 12:25:06 amThere are few devices for streaming data when we have scope tools to capture on what we need, the many types of trigger settings.Here a deep memory scope is also underestimated for its usefulness as is even basic search capability.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 08:39:28 am
content: Quote from: Ross on August 15, 2023, 12:25:06 amThe data is deep inside the machine, no way to get it out in real time.The MSO5000 does 8 gigasamples/sec. With 16 digital channels that's 16Gb of data per second. Think about that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2023, 09:19:07 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on August 15, 2023, 08:39:28 amOnly in analog mode.QuoteYeah but in MSO mode things work different.Levels are not displayed and instead only signals that cross thresholds.Memory depth in MSO mode is far more important for long captures and the 5000 has only half the mem depth of its closest competitor.QuoteTime is better spent studying datasheets.

author: ian.rees
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 04:40:18 am
content: I've had a Saleae Logic Pro 16 since ~2016 (when I paid, IIRC, US$500 for it) and would buy another one at today's prices if this one got eaten by the cat or whatever - but only after shopping around for something functionally equivalent and less expensive. I also have a scope with protocol decoding that I used a small handful of times before buying the Saleae, but I have not touched protocol decoding on the scope since. For context, I work on firmware for VoIP phone systems, and routinely have a need to look at signals like QSPI flash interfaces, digital audio, LCDs, I2C, etc.Subjectively, I find the PC interface to be much more natural for this sort of thing, compared to the buttons and knobs on an oscilloscope, but maybe a touchscreen scope like you've asked about would help level the field. Objectively, the ability to write custom decoders for the Saleae, and use ones that others have made, has been a godsend on a couple occasions (it has been a few years, but from memory, the API is a little awkward). The analog input on the Saleae is surprisingly handy, even if not as high performance as a scope. Portability is hard to beat.The Saleae Logic software is what you're paying for, and it is vastly overpriced in my opinion. It's good, but there are annoying little issues and poor design choices here and there, it's had memory leaks, it's still crashy+laggy when pushed hard (busy captures with multiple decoders active), firmware on the LA seems to interact badly with my Linux machine's startup somehow... The software does get updated fairly often, but the changes are typically maintenance-type things, and it has not had many big functional improvements that I've noticed since their original launch (a kickstarter, IIRC? Just remember using one at a previous job before buying mine). Offhand the only "big changes" I can think of are v2 which is a bit more snappy, and the "live view" which is really just useful to tell if you've got a loose probe or forgot to switch on the power. I've opened issues in their issue tracker, and while the communications with them have always been positive in tone, they have completely lacked in substance.Sigrok looked like a competitor at one point; I'm not sure if that's currently the case but have occasionally thought about taking it for a spin. There's just so much potential with this hardware combined with the power of a modern PC, but I feel like it's just not being realised. Plus, I'm a big fan of open source, and can't see why something like this LA couldn't exist at a hobbyist-compatible price point.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 07:07:41 am
content: I can add that with sigrok, you can connect to a lot of scopes, and the mso5000 is one of them (although it seems the digital channels are not available to read at this time ... seehttps://sigrok.org/wiki/Rigol_MSO5000_Series)other scopes can be fully connected to sigrok on your computer using the lan.

author: Ross
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2023, 11:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on August 16, 2023, 07:07:41 amI have not run across sigrok, must check it out thanks.

author: kloetpatra
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 09:53:43 pm
content: I've used many different logic analyzers so far. Old ones (Janatek, Intronix, ...) , new ones (Saleae, DSLogic, ChronoVu) , different concepts, stand alone devices (HP 1631D), scopes with builtin analyzers (R+S, Tektronix, Rigol) and all the different softwares. If I can recommend one, it is the Saleae Logic 16 Pro. Of course the price is high and has increased over time. Beeing effective is what counts, and therefore you better pay some extra money once and save time in return over and over. Analyzing protcols can be a cumbersome task, not only if you need to capture and analyze rare und non deterministic events but also if it comes to decoding.The hardware of Saleae is existent for a decent time now and the software is still continuously evolving. Of course there are some flaws here and there but no real deal breakers. The usage and software of all other analyzers I had used were all limited at some point.I have written about 15 (low-level) analyzers for the saleae so far. I use it in prefer of everything else. 8 channels seem to be quite a lot and enough for most tasks, but there will definitely be situations where you need more (trust me). I even needed more than 16 channels without having a big parallel bus. It is always good to have some spare channels for watching supply lines, resets or whatever signals come along.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2023, 11:03:05 pm
content: There's also the Analog and Digital discoveries - very powerful analytic devices:https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-2-100ms-s-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/https://digilent.com/reference/test-and-measurement/digital-discovery/start