Can you recommend the best SMT iron under $500 ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 06:39:15 pm
content: I'm looking at something like the basic Weller WX serieshttps://www.amazon.com/WX1012-Powered-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B005N712Y8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1465582083&sr=1-1&keywords=Weller+WXAnd maybe a JBC like ahttps://www.amazon.com/JBC-Soldering-Tools-CD-1SE-Compact/dp/B0195LSGKK/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1465583134&sr=8-6&keywords=Jbc+Soldering+StationI'm going SMT work with rare occasional through hole for connectors and things. I probably only turn the iron on once a month, but when I do, I'll have a 500 pad PCB to solder up. Its all prototype construction. I don't really like the idea of "special tips" as I almost never work on the same boards over and over and need the adjustability.I can step up a little bit over $500 if it's important, but I'd like to keep it under if possible. I'm using a Weller WLC100 right now and it's killing me. I need better temp control.Thoughts? Other options considering the price?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 07:46:13 pm
content: Don't forget to factor in the cost of a good selection of tips.You can get aHakko FX-951and a good selection of tips for under $500. It will be a HUGE step up from your Weller WLC100 (which was also my first iron).Louis Rossman does a good review of the FX-951. At the end of the video he does a performance/cost comparison with the JBC.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 10:05:02 pm
content: I second the FX951, you also have option of adding a micro iron (fm2032) in the future if need something for very small or fine work.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 10:17:49 pm
content: I knew I should be looking into Hakko but forgot. Researching now.EDIT: OMG I'm downing in the amount of flux that guy uses.That said, yes, the unit does seem nice and I'll look into the other Hakko units, but the controls and beeping on that seem terribly annoying.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 10:22:04 pm
content: HiNot clear where you are located. That can impact cost and selection quite a bit.There are a *lot* of very good soldering systems sold used. SMT has been around for several decades. Companies move or go out of business. The market gets flooded with this or that setup. Most of the better stuff is quite reliable / repairable. Prices can be low enough that buying two or three to have a spare still nets out way ahead of a new one.Bob

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 10:48:31 pm
content: After having used JBC and Weller I'm got hooked on Ersa soldering gear.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2016, 10:48:31 pmLooks great, but not for USA as it seems to pick up $100 over the cost in Europe.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:22:27 pm
content: ERSA i-Con Nano is pretty decent and very compact - not everyone has a huge amount of space on the bench. However, ERSA has a good selection of other models too, including hot tweezers and what not.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:23:15 pm
content: The Hakko 951 seems to be about $250, And the "low end" JBC (CD-S) is about $450. I'm not sure I am above paying $150 for the interface and name/support. The tip prices seemed about the same with JBC being $5-10 higher. $30-50 per. I really only need 2-3 tips, and for the majority of my work could get by with one.Not a lot of love for the Weller I see.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2016, 11:27:59 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 10, 2016, 11:22:27 pmThe only unit I've seen so far from Ersa in the USA is the Pico which is by a thread on this site, made in China and not great. If there is a USA distributor, I'd be happy to check them out... but then you get into another issue - tips. I like the idea of JBC and Weller tips I can get even off Amazon.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 12:08:37 am
content: Quote from: jnz on June 10, 2016, 11:27:59 pmWith Ersa you just need one set of tips and you are set for at least a decade of daily soldering (unless you set the iron crazy hot which is bad for many things so lets rule that out).

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 01:23:22 am
content: The Weller WX gear is fine, but it's pricey. Hakko offers a lot more value, but you compromise on the UI usability (Hakko's UI's aren't intuitive at all). Weller has a much nicer UI, and offers a lot more tools that will interface with the power control unit, whereas Hakko offers one additional iron. May not matter, depending on what you need.Ersa is available in the US; both directly on their US site (Kurtz-Ersa North America), and atMurray Purcivalas well. A very important note, everything they offer in the hand operated stuff is 230V single phase, so it's likely you'd have to install the appropriate outlet or use a suitable step-up transformer. As mentioned, the tip quality is excellent, as is Hakko's.Weller's tip quality depends on where it comes from. Those made in the US, Japan, and Germany are excellent, while that from Mexico and Bosnia have had a high defect rate IME (i.e. ~30% on the Bosnian stuff)*. Fortunately, the XNT tips used in the WXP65 iron are made in Germany, so you'd be OK there (RT series as well; some of the LT series is from Bosnia). There are 3rd party companies that offer clone tips for the more common plated types, such asPlato.Tip cost and selection is something that should be taken into consideration as well; Hakko's common profiles aren't bad at all, despite the fact they're cartridge tips rather than just plated copper. Ersa's tip prices are decent as well (just plated copper). The XNT series is also just plated copper. JBC's tips are on the pricey side, as are the RT series should you ever decide to go with Weller and add that particular hand piece (WXMPiron).BTW, the piezo speaker can be muted on the FX-951 (download the full manual from Hakko; need to make an account to do so, which is free). A previous solution was to put a piece of electrical tape over it.* For disclosure, I own a WD series setup (WSP80 & WMP irons). FWIW, the WMP is the WXP65's daddy, but uses a different series of tip (NT rather than XNT). The newer model has a better tip selection & installation/removal (no special tool required).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 04:41:01 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on June 11, 2016, 01:23:22 amYep, it takes about 10 seconds to do. BTW, no registration needed for that manual. It'sHERE

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 05:15:05 am
content: Personally, WD series kills me. I have occasion to borrow one, fairly frequently. Although I tend to bring and use my own Hakko, when I know I'm going to need to solder.Tips do not transfer heat instantly, despite the marketing. Tiny tip = tiny thermal mass, and no amount of marketing changes that (unless it includes RF Curie point tech).Tips do not last (I hear quality is hit and miss, depending on where they were manufactured).Stereo plugs are not adequate connectors for a soldering iron tip, by themselves. Just nope. When you put lateral pressure on the tip (which you will when it doesn't heat the joint quickly) the whole iron bends.The handle is too small. Every time I pick up the iron, the cord gets in the way.The stand is too ditzy. Every time I put the iron away, it's a chore.Also seen one out of a fleet of 4 of these go out of commission within 4 years.WX might be different, but it looks very similar to me. For occasional use, it will probably be fine, I'm sure. It looks the biz. (But for me, the WD series is the slickest looking POS available for the money. I like other wellers just fine).Oh, I should mention that the tip to grip distance is quite short and the handle is quite light weight, if you want that. That is personally annoying to me, as well. I rather have more reach, and shifting grip doesn't give you enough with this iron, due to the short grip. A bigger, heavier handpiece is more stable and gives better reach and utility, IMO.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 12:24:26 pm
content: I have a used metal , and love it.Bought, a batch of refurbished tips/bingo

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 12:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 11, 2016, 05:15:05 amWhich iron/s have you been using?As per tips, I've only had issues with the LT series' stuff that was made in Bosnia. The US, German, and Japanese made tips I purchased are still going after 8 years. No issues with irons bending, but I don't use the WRMP either. FWIW, that particular iron is made for working with small SMD, including under a microscope, so there's not a lot of mass to the tips.As per the RF Curie Point stuff, it's decent (especially useful for production, as operators absolutely cannot screw with the temp settings), but it's not the end-all of soldering tech anymore as you're implying either. Twenty years ago, sure; but no longer. For example, a Hakko FX-951 keeps up with it at a fraction of the price when buying new, and other stations have beaten it.Ultimately though, any brand & model have their issues/quirks.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 12:55:58 pm
content: One of the biggest problems I see when people are using a soldering iron is using a tip which is too small and the temperature set too high. A bigger tip has more mass and more heat conductivity so it will be easier to use. Just rely on the surface tension + flux to do the work and soldering will be quicker and better. Setting the temperature too high is especially bad for lead free because the flux wears off much faster and tin is already harder to solder to begin with.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 01:29:23 pm
content: I am surprised know one thought that with SMT , the need for 2 tips , so tweezers and or hot air ?Not that you can not do SMT with one tip , but its too much work for frequent use , at least to me .At this time I have JBC stations - single tip - vacuum , Metcal stations single tip , tweezer & vacuum , Hakko & copies hot air .Now to build a oven with good controls

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 01:52:18 pm
content: Quick 861DW hot air workstation works great for me, but I am not sure if they only have 220V version.http://www.primedistributing.com/Quick_Soldering_QUICK861DW_p/quick861dw.htm

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 01:57:35 pm
content: Quote from: jnz on June 10, 2016, 11:27:59 pmPico I wouldn't recommend, that is the low cost version of the Nano, lacking a lot of features, including being ESD-safeERSA has an US office, you can try to talk to them directly:http://www.kurtzersa.com/homepage.htmlKurtz North America1779 Pilgrim RoadPlymouth, WI 53073USATelefon: +1 920 893 1779Fax: +1 920 893 1562info-kna@kurtzersa.comwww.kurtzersa.comERSA tips are commonly available here in Europe, in the US I am not sure.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 04:45:28 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 11, 2016, 01:57:35 pmHiI would put a "240V only" bench iron very far down on the list for US use. By the time you fiddle with connectors / cables / transformers, you have a very clunky and expensive setup. I would also question the degree to which a company is focusing on the US market if they don't even bother to wind a power transformer to match the normal bench wiring.None of that is to say the gear isn't first rate or that they should change their approach. The US may simply not be significant to them for bench gear sales.Bob

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 05:27:23 pm
content: QuoteI have had access to a metcal, for many months. But the iron I bought for myself are Hakko FX 888s. At about $100.00 each, they work great. Hakko's tip selector web tool is the best; and the selection and value of tips is fantastic. Been using them since before they distontinued the 888 analog, however long that is, and I have yet to wear out a tip or experience the first problem. I have spent more on tips than the cost of a single station... but all these tips are still in service. There are 5 or 6 I can't hardly live without, anymore. I have no problem changing the tip while hot with just a small pair of pliers with a bolt/fastener cutout in the jaws.I believe metcal is really good. I don't think it's good enough for the size and cost of the station, for my current needs. I'm sure the FX 951 is also excellent. I'm sure the WD is perfectly fine for some people, doing certain things, but it seems to me it is designed from the ground up for very fine, delicate, point to point rework. I personally see many disadvantages for general use, and not much if any advantage for fine point-to-point rework. I can handle a more normal sized iron just fine, so I only experience the disadvantages. For SMD board assembly/population, there is no need for iron this tiny to begin with, IMO. IOW, I see WD good as maybe a cell phone repair specialist tool, at best. Only where the boards you work on are always very small and fine pitch, and you do not assemble/populate larger panels, and you are doing only point to point rework under a microscope.I won't call the 888 the best iron under $500.00. I personally find no significant shortcoming with it, other than the horrible UI on the digital version.

author: shawnb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 07:09:52 pm
content: The Hakko FX-951 seems highly regarded and one of the better values, and it can use the T15-CF3 bevel hoof tip for drag soldering. But, a lot of people complain about the interface and toy-ish color scheme.I had talked myself up to the Hakko FM-203, thinking with two channels I could add a micro iron and have both a bevel and micro chisel ready to go at the same time.I ended up going with the Weller WX, it was pricey but general consensus seemed to be that they are built to old-school Weller's quality standards (unlike some of the cheaper models). The WXP65 iron is smaller than I expected, I bought the WXMP micro iron too but not sure how often I will need something that small.Seems like everyone has their preference/opinion as to inductive vs standard, brand, iron size/shape, tip size/shape, etc. I agonized for a couple months trying to research what was "best" without the benefit of comparing them hands-on, but finally decided that as long as it was quality and had flexibility, I would be able to adapt to using it for "best results" as with any fine tool.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 08:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: gamalot on June 11, 2016, 01:52:18 pmI own one of these*, and the unit you linked is the version designed for US voltage.FWIW, the last letter indicates the market; the version ending in W = 110V w/ US plug, S = 220V w/ EU plug, and A = 220V w/ UK plug.* Plenty of info on these stations here in the forum for anyone interested, including teardown photos.Quote from: KL27x on June 11, 2016, 05:27:23 pmActually, the primary iron that was designed for it, was the WSP80, which was later replaced with the WP80. Both of which are 80W, normal sized pencil shaped irons. They also offered 2x micro irons, the WMP & WRMP, as well as a couple of different tweezers, a solder pot, solder bath, and preheater plate. Please note that the WRMP and WMRT only work with theMversions (i.e. WD1M or WD2M).WSP80WP80

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 08:26:41 pm
content: Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I hope I didn't already steer the OP wrong.This is what I do not care for:http://soldertechnic.uw.hu/weller_soldering_stations/image011.jpg

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 08:45:20 pm
content: I've got a 951 on my own bench, and its been a workhorse for ages.. Got a collection of tips and if i was goign to replace it because it died.. I'd get another 951. I do work from 0402 through to big connectors with it.. Its a great tool to have on the bench

author: Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 10:32:52 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 11, 2016, 08:26:41 pmI just got on of these irons as an addition to the W080, and it works great. Much better than the standard WP80. Its nice and light, and still quite strong and verry fast.I use it with a WD2M station, next to a WMRT tweezer.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2016, 11:12:23 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 11, 2016, 08:26:41 pmYeah, those are not suited for general purpose use at all. Strictly for small SMD packages, including for use under a microscope. They work well for their suited purpose though. I can see your concern about the 1/8" stereo jack as a means of connecting it, but as the grip is part of the tip itself, it's not a problem. It's not even the case with JBC, and the tip is contacted above the grip area on both the 245 & 210 irons (contacts are up inside the handle). They don't have anything to prevent them from spinning either, yet it's not an issue AFAIK (never seen anything about spinning cartridges).FWIW, the shorter tip-to-grip distances between the user's fingers & work being done is an improvement per the general consensus. And IME, I wholeheartedly agree.There's too close of course, and if you were using the iron in your linked image for general purpose use (i.e. larger diameter solder), I'd be amazed if your fingers weren't singed on too frequently a basis. But at ~ 1.75 - 2" or so for a general purpose sized iron, it seems to workverywell (depends on the tip).And most of the newer gear I've noticed fall into this range. My WSP80* is a bit longer, but it's still quite nice vs. the older style irons IME (i.e. grip areas with diameters similar to broom handles). The WMP is much shorter, and I really like it (meant for much smaller work, so it's a benefit, not a hindrance).For reference, using an LTB tip (standard size & mass 2.4mm chisel), the tip-to-grip length comes to 70mm/~2.75" on my WSP80. Also, the larger 80W irons do extremely well for SMD work using either the naked eye or a non-microscope means of magnification, as there are suitable tip sizes & shapes available.As per Hakko's Tip Selection page, the basic information applies to any brand (what the shapes are used for).The only advantage it offers for their own products, is helping a user find tips to fit their Hakko branded stations.I do wish other manufacturers offered something similar, but at least there's something out there.Whether professional or hobbyist, Hakko is definitely one to keep in the forefront of one's mind for those in the US/CAN market in regard to both excellent performance & value.For hot air rework however, Quick should be added to anyone's short list in this area, whether they reside in the US, EU, or UK (there are members using it professionally with excellent results).* I started with the WMP, and got the WSP80 later, so both it and the WP80 were available. But I made a compromise regarding replacement part costs, as the heating element for the WSP80 ran ~$60, while that of the WP80 was nearly the cost of the entire iron.Additional tip retaining tubes were more expensive as well, as I use multiples in order to speed up tip changes.--------------------------------Although this isn't applicable in your case,Batterflyhas excellent prices for the EU/UK market on Hakko gear.That said, the Ersa Nano should be their target IMHO, as it offers exceptional performance & value in their particular market (would take the FX-951 to get ~ equal performance & features from Hakko's gear). Tips are easier to find as well, as it's a German company. The Nano & the Series 102 tips are all made in Germany (Pico is made in China, andnotESD compliant).^ just in case someone from outside the US/CAN is searching for soldering station suggestions.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 01:35:27 am
content: QuoteYes. Metcal is just as short, per what I can tell. But the handle is much longer.When I hand populate a board, I will be dabbing a lot of pads with flux and plopping down a lot of parts at a time. With a tiny tip-grip distance and no handle to work with, this limits the area of board I can work on.And the other equally big concern for me is this short handle and tiny tip-grip means the stand is plain finicky and the iron is a chore to pick up and put down.I rework fine pitch IC's and 0402 resistors no problem with my Hakko. I can buy tips just as fine. The longer reach is not a problem in the least.QuoteI didn't notice any issue at first. But after 6+ years of use, I am finding these irons bending significantly (not spinning, anyhow) with lateral pressure. There is only a short section of grip that is part of the tip. And this also makes the tips, what, ~$20.00 each? More?If this handpiece floats yer boat, I see it being fine for a home lab or for a hobbyist. I wouldn't choose this for any high production work, and the guy who fields the ones I have used would be the first person to agree.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 02:46:38 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 12, 2016, 01:35:27 amWhat's the total length of the grip to the end of the handle, and how much more do you need?Please understand, given my experience with other products that work with the WD base units, I find it unnecessary to bash the entire series over a single hand piece. Particularly when you're not familiar with any of the others.Regarding the stand, there's a couple that they've offered, with one being discontinued (version that was all metal w/ magnet extending out on a wire).Quote from: KL27x on June 12, 2016, 01:35:27 amNot so much, or I'd have bought it (I was after inexpensive tips, as I don't care to spend ~$30 per for common profiles the RT series goes for).I opted for the WMP instead, which doesn't use cartridge tips (NT series is cheaper as a result).

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 04:34:15 am
content: just a comparison of metcal and JBC tip to grip distances, this is the jbc t210, metcal MX-H1-AV, jbc t245 and the metcal MX-H1-AV again with a different tip.personally, the metcal handpeices feel much better made and dont get hot, whereas ive had the jbc ones get uncomfortably hot.I do quite like the hakko fx-951, for the price they are probably the best value for money compared to the metcal and jbc, unless you can pick up a 2nd hand metcal.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 07:49:36 pm
content: It does depend a bit where you live too, I would generally opt for whatever is easy to source locally both for better pricing and support reasons.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2016, 09:45:20 pm
content: QuoteI apologized, once. Let's try again. I am sorry, and I hope I didn't steer the OP wrong. Aside from seeing these stations go kaput, the rest of my negative experience was with the small iron for the WD which I linked the picture of. The stations where purchased with these small irons as standard, and I didn't realize they were just one of many options. I'm glad you like your WD. Weller makes good products in general, although I hear of and have seen myself issues with tip longevity and/or quality control.QuoteI prefer enough handle length where I can pick up the iron without tangling my hand in the cord, for starters. Maybe the new stand design addresses this problem. I already explained how/why/where I get an advantage from having more reach.How much more reach? I want as much tip to grip as I can manage while resting/natural tremors as not a problem. Any shorter than that is not helping me. The steadiness of my tweezer hand is much more important, anyway.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 03:17:44 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 12, 2016, 09:45:20 pmThis is the type if detailed information I'm hoping for, as they've had some QC issues. More information couldn't hurt anyway.Quote from: KL27x on June 12, 2016, 09:45:20 pmThey've certainly had some QC issues over the last ~10 years or so at least, based on discussions in other threads (i.e. theWMD3&WD1 repairthreads).Mine's continued to work thus far, but it's not what they once were in terms of robust construction (internal photos in linked threads). The WX line has apparently improved on this, but they've relatively new owners again (sold to Bain Capital in 2014), so who knows if product improvements will remain a primary goal.Quote from: KL27x on June 12, 2016, 09:45:20 pmFWIW, I'm 6'-4" and don't get my hands tangled up in the cords, so that particular unit seems to be an anomaly regarding total length. Still not sure which stand you have, but the one I'm primarily thinking of did seem a bit fiddly (the all aluminum one). Tip to grip in the 2 - 3" range seems to be the sweet spot, based on user comments.