Sears Kenmore Whirlpool Washer Mold Problem! Argh! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 05:08:47 am
content: Furious at Whirlpool's Bad Design Cover-upSo finally after I had fixed up my washer a little over 1 year ago (electronics board shorted... see videos below), now I have tothrow it outdue to a nasty mold issue which does not go away!!! And no amount of electronics repair will fix it. The machine is only 7 years old. Here's what is going on:Here is my original electronics board trouble-shooting video from 1 year ago and how I fixed it. My wife thought I was "a hero" back then. Little did I know 1 year later we would toss the machine. And that is 1 year more of exposing our kids to potentially harmful molds that were hidden inside the machine and not easy to see:Yes, they knew about this problem and did not address it.... they just kept selling faulty designed models. At least that is what severalCLASS-ACTION LAWSUITSare claiming which I have now added my name to. There is not much luck anything will come of it... But it is very disappointing that my machine, which is only from 2008 (only 7 years old) has to be thrown away due to an uncontrollable issue that I am sure started to occur only a few years into having this machine. Now we are back to a top-loading machine.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 05:29:13 am
content: Hmm, scary. I have a Whirlpool machine similar to that purchased in 2003. I have not noticed a problem with it as yet. What is it in particular that you noticed first: was it the smell/odour, or was it visible signs of mold?

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 05:50:54 am
content: Ew.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 05:51:29 am
content: I'm in Canada and the weather is quite dry here. We leave the door of the washer open after a wash and most of the time to let it air out. We noticed the blackened gasket but usually just a bit of staining near the bottom part, in the crevice (never around the entire seal). My wife would wipe it away, or use bleach and for the most part that used to go away for a while, then return again.What we started noticing is that the clothing would smell a bit "musty" after the wash. We prefer to use the detergents that are not too "flowery" as we have kids and want to use odour-free non-allergenic options, so we used something like Tide Free HE detergent. We figured that was sort of normal... that's what happens when something gradually happens, you don't notice the change and you kind of get used to it. Also, after the dryer the heat would sometimes neutralize some of the smell so you wouldn't really detect it as much either.However, about a month ago our 3 year old developed a rash, and the doctor thought it had to do with the detergent on the clothing touching the skin, so we started washing his stuff separately and using a different detergent. We also started looking a bit more closely at the machine and noticing the mold was getting worse. And when we changed up the detergent and it didn't cover up the smell as much, and we started to really smell it more consciously, it was obvious that there was indeed a musky mildew moldy smell there. Kind of like an old dishrag or wet socks. Not really fresh.That's when I looked online looking for ways to clean the machine better, and people are recommending bleach, vinegar, turpentine, borax and all sorts of chemicals. I already looked into ordering and changing the door gasket because I figured that was a lost cause.However, once I learned it was a major issue and that several class-action lawsuits are actually still ongoing, and figuring that I would be fighting an endless battle with this design of machine and will likely continue to have the problem again and again, I decided it just wasn't worth it. So we ended up buying an old-fashioned top-loader like I used to have when I grew up (and never had any issues with).Having ordered the new machine, I decided before they took my old one away to have a final teardown and gather video evidence of what was actually happening in there. I was SHOCKED to see what I found. My wife didn't want to know, as she would have freaked out to see how bad it really was.I thought I was informed but I missed the news that day I guess when they announced this massive issue and never knew. I'm sure most people still don't know about the issue with front-load washers and the class-action lawsuit. So this video and posting is to spread the word to everyone who has a front-loading washer to really take a hard close look at their gasket and see if they have a machine that may be affected. It could be that since these models from 2001-2008, they either changed the composition of the door gasket to a more mold-resistant type of rubber, or they added some special extra-hot cleaning cycle and increased water flow-rate to the design of the machine, or even create a forced venting system that doesn't rely on the door having to be opened right away and helps dry the chamber. That may have helped mitigate this issue, although it is likely to still occur more often with this style of washer.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 06:22:36 am
content: I would have suspected it was more to do with the environment that the machine is in rather than the machine itself, a lack of fresh ventilated air is generally the cause but you did indicate that other people were also having the same issue so it could simply be a bad design that restricts air flow or proper drying out of the machine.Bleach in a spray bottle is your best friend but you would need to move the machine outside for a few days as the ammonia from the bleach can be not only overwhelming but also highly dangerous, take extreme caution, you would then need to remove the bleach as it will corrode the machines metal parts and may damage other bits and pieces as well.We renovated houses many years ago and I could tell you horror stories about mold particularly in bathroom and laundry areas, sometimes after removing plaster board or dry wall what looked like dirty insulation bats exposed over large areas and occasionally the entire room, it was in fact mold and the clients wondered why they and their family were all as sick as dogs, scary stuff.We would go to town on it with bleach in spray bottles, gallons of the stuff at times and then get commercial gas dryers in to dry it all out again, more often than not it was easier to rip the room down and start again as sometimes the timber was damaged beyond recovery.Wish you well.Muttley

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 06:32:42 am
content: For general purpose maintenance to avoid those problems I occasionally use vinegar with one load, and ammonia for the next. However, it won't do much once a problem like that sets in.For the fun of it get a thermometer with a hygrometer and get a sense of where the humidity level is at. Once it starts to get above 50% things can really start to bubble away.I run a dehumidifier. My trick is to run it on clock timer settable in 1/2 hour segments throughout the entire day. Then you can much more finely tune it in.Seeing that problem makes me appreciate the merits of having recently replaced the motor brushes in my washer, that is now on its second motor and controller.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 07:51:02 am
content: Right size drum to make a nice BBQ from for the yard.My top loader also has a biofilm that grows in it, I just regularly drop in a full load of water, 1 gallon of vinegar and 1 cup of pool chlorine and put it on the longest cycle to kill and remove the film. You can also take it outside, take the top and the drum cover off and use a high pressure cleaner to blast off the film before doing the bleach blast, means there is less that will float around.Tip as well, use less detergent and a longer cycle, clothes come out just as clean. There is a machine marketed in Japan that does not use soap, just ultrasonic transducers to scrub the clothes, and they claim it works as effectively as detergent.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 08:20:44 am
content: I doubt it is a problem is with front loading designs in general as front loading machines are universally standard in Europe and if this affected all such machines it would surely make the news. I wonder if that particular model had some design choices that make it susceptible to the mold trouble?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 08:38:22 am
content: Probably to get the larger opening and do away with the regular deep dish glass front panel, and to still have a good seal with the large area on flat glass. Thus they used a more flexible lower Shore silicone, which probably had to have less antifungal additive to keep it flexible, and then the larger size meant they had to control cure shrinkage with a different blend. Also with the shallow door they had to make it resistant to scuffing by the laundry.Here the standard front loader is made by Defy, and the design has remained essentially unchanged seal wise and door wise since the 1970's, and the seal is simple and easy to clean, and it has no real traps that hold water and detergent in place as food for mould and bacteria. As well it does not contact clothing, and is a lot thicker and stiffer so it is easy to clean all the surfaces with a cloth, no dumb water inlet, probably placed there to keep the outer drum easy to manufacture from a simple plain rolled sheet and end caps with minimal clearance between that and the inner drum.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 08:54:08 am
content: I guess that the main culprit is the eco-friendly detergents and that people are using low-temp programmes. Heck, most clothes today are marked with 30 or 40C (86/104F) as recommended water temperature. Back in the good old days the detergents had plenty of powerful chemicals in them and people washed their clothes in 60C (140F) or bed sheets in 90C (194F). That killed both the smelly bacteria and mould dead in their tracks before it got bad.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 09:09:37 am
content: It's hard to explain but unless you've see a european front loader up close and personal whatever they are "designing" and selling in north america is something completely different. Unless it's a model that is also being sold in europe.I was excited when front loaders became available in the US. Then I saw them in the store and they are best described as top loaders tilted 80 degrees. All the excitement went away.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 09:15:17 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on October 25, 2015, 09:09:37 amSorry if I'm being noobish, but what's wrong with that?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 10:14:29 am
content: All you need to do is run the washer emty on a hot wash once a month with a double dose of biological washing powder or liquid. The biggest culprit is the fabric conditioner forming a coating which reacts with minerals in the water and forms a perfect breeding ground for bacteria and mould growth. I was told about this by a factory engineer from Zanussi when I the machine failed due to this problem only months from new. So I have been practising this religiously ever since and have had no problems for the past five years.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 10:33:37 am
content: Saw the topic, we have a Fischer and Paykel Front Loader that has been used daily for about 5 years, door usually left shut after use, wiped the silicon washer for the first time in its 5 year life and found a little bit of soap residue with lint but not mouldy or malodorous. I noted a small series of drain holes from the bottom of the silicon washer heading downwards and the climate here is pretty dry esp in summer.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 12:32:42 pm
content: I'm curious why, if you have a laundry with enough space for a top loader, why anyone would buy a front loader? Seems like a lot more work putting washing in and out of a front loader.No flex-rubber gaskets with top loaders. Though I suppose down in the pump and plumbing it's probably fairly scungy.As for the outlet hose, well of course that's going to be horrible. So is every drain pipe, ever. Didn't you ever disassemble a sink U-bend?Washing machines aren't the only mold horror shows. Last year a friend gave me a non-so-old fridge, after they bought a new one. I'd thought I could use it in my workshop. Till I started cleaning it. It was a frost free, and constructed with sections of formed styrofoam internal bulkheads under the plastic surfaces. Inside the styrofoam were several ducts for air, as part of the frost-free system.And they were all full of mold. With no way to get into them to clean it out.I ended up sending it to the tip.But you know what's the worst? Modern toothbrushes. The ones with 'ergonomic' soft rubber sections on the shaped handles. I don't know what's the point; maybe so you don't somehow lose your grip and accidentally swallow the toothbrush?Anyway, has anyone else noticed those things are incredibly mold-prone?I bought one, and after the way it went I flatly refuse to buy another toothbrush with the soft rubber handle sections.The soft rubber seems to promote mold growth, and be porous to the mold, so it cannot be cleaned. It looks absolutely disgusting, and I'm certainly not putting what's effectively a mold garden planter near my mouth.Also, I notice the soft rubber starts to degrade as it ages, and gets a little tacky. So, this means the molecular structure is breaking down, and forming chemical fragment structures. What are they, and did anyone check if they are carcinogenic? I bet not. It will be interesting to see the statistics for mouth and throat cancers, a decade from now.Currently looking for a supplier of old fashioned hard plastic handled toothbrushes. But it seems there are none!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 12:46:18 pm
content: Plastic handled ones are supplied by Colgate Palmolive. I did buy a dozen or two this year, and they are cheap.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 01:01:46 pm
content: Very good points there. Certainly the design of front-loaders in North America are not the same as European models. For one or more reasons they are more prone to mold, and so class-action lawsuits in both the USA and Canada are still in the courts.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 01:15:38 pm
content: This is a consequence of being energy and water efficient. We always leave our door open and periodically clean the tiny drain holes hidden at the bottom of the door gasket. Older top loaders had a lot of ventilation.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 02:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 25, 2015, 12:32:42 pmDo toploaders really wash as well as frontloaders. I have a hard time understanding how the agitator in the bottom of a toploader even can compete with the agitation caused by having the clothes being bent and splashing down into the bottom of the drum in a frontloader.I've been using frontloaders all my life except for 6 months in a rented condo where the owner had installed a toploader. And it never felt like bed linen or food stains on clothes got really clean. Both my wife and I hated it. But maybe it depends on what you're used to.

author: bitshape
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 02:21:49 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 25, 2015, 12:32:42 pmYes there are. I use this Swiss-Made one:Curaprox UltraSoft Toothbrush

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 03:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: matseng on October 25, 2015, 08:54:08 amYes and no.Mildew will occur on surfaces or in fabrics that stay humid for too long. But this also goes for stuff that never sees the inside of a washer, like e.g. the sail of a ship.The current tendency of washing at low temperatures does mean that bacteria or spores aren't killed. In the old days detergents may not have been very eco friendly but they weren't that good either hence the need for high temps (the killing bacteria etc. was a side effect of that temp, 60 C or higher and they don't survive).I also don't think it has much to do with the washer being a top or a front loader. However, a front loader gives you better access to the things that get wet which the top loader might hide. My bet is that mold will be inside top loaders just as abundantly. Musty machines are just as much a complaint over here nowadays, BTW.What the European manufacturers suggest is to wash at low temps unless there's a family member with a contagious illness. In that case things like towels or sheets are best washed at at least 60 C. To prevent mold or bad smells they suggest to let the machine run a cycle without laundry and no or very little detergent at 90 C once every couple of months.A couple of months ago I discarded a 2006 Whirlpool front loader (European model) because of a misformed drum that had slowly deformed over the years and eventually knocked out the heating element. When I dismantled the machine, there was only mold in the lowest part the rubber gasket around the door. Water didn't really seep out from there forming a puddle. Of course I had never checked that. Apart from some soapy residue here and there, there was no mold in other parts of the machine.I put that down to occasionally washing at 60 C and leaving the door and detergent drawer open after every cycle.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 03:40:49 pm
content: Our new washer has a steam cycle and also a special tub clean cycle. Together with being a top loader with almost no rubber gasket, and gravity helping to drain the water and evaporation helping to dry the tub after a cycle, my hope is it will not suffer the same fate. But we will be more vigilant.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 03:44:08 pm
content: That gasket is technically known as a "bellows":https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front-loading_washer#Front-loadingQuote

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 08:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: matseng on October 25, 2015, 02:01:18 pmHa! Thank you for that comment. At least I know I am not "seeing things".QuoteYeah...things like clean looking whites instead of a dingly very light gray.The price of progress I guess.Reminds me of switcher power supplies. We win the efficiency battle and we end up in a war with noise and design complexity.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 09:30:57 pm
content: the front-loaders in the US are well known to have a mold/smell issue. when i was shopping for these a year ago, every single salesman warned me about it. I read about it and saw the youtube repair videos. I avoided getting a front loader and got a really good top loader that is large enough to do comforters.it seems the US front loaders are NOT nearly as good as the euro ones. in europe, its standard to use front loaders but those are somewhat new to the US and they are not well done; not any brand, really!

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 09:50:24 pm
content: Leave the door open between washes and you won't have a smell or mold problem unless of course your location is damp all the time anyway. In that case it's not the washer fault and you have a bigger problem.Been using a front load washer for years. When we replaced our top loader the first time the electric went down a lot, at least $30 a month. Used a lot less water also which was good as we were on a well at the time. Seven people in the house, us and 5 teenagers so the washer was going every day. Paid for itself. A lot less mechanical things to go wrong. It has a water pump and a small electric motor. No transmission or large motor needed. It survived the teenagers and lasted over 12 years. We finally replaced it with another about two years ago when the dryer went and my wife wanted a matched set. We find it cleans better also.I find it is easier to get clothes out the front and just toss them in the front load dryer right next to it instead of reaching down and trying to pull them out the top and then bending over each time to put them in the dryer. 14 years now and no mold, smell, or problems.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 10:14:35 pm
content: Prompted by this thread, I inspected my machine looking for problems. Inside the bellows there is a definite accumulation of scale and soap residue. It looks icky, but it doesn't come into contact with the wash load and there are no unpleasant smells. Nonetheless I shall certainly be giving it a good clean with a cloth and some detergent. Everywhere else looks clean and shiny.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 10:37:57 pm
content: I wonder how much of this problem is caused by "natural" detergents. Most products contain biocides like methylisothiazolinone or IPBC that effectively prevent mold growth. They are not hypoallergenic.My own washer is a top-loader (also a Kenmore) over 30 years old. It still works perfectly, and there are no musty smells or other problems.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 10:58:39 pm
content: one of the videos I saw showed that a drain hose was also a mold problem. it was not a major deal to replace the hoses and sometimes the front rubber seal, but it did appear that you would have to do that every few years, or maybe even every year! if you tear the whole thing apart and have parts ready, its not a big job (not half a day).I decided to go with a conventional top load 'semi efficient' washer. I can leave the top open or not. and there's less chance of a leak with a top-loader (again, the US models).it was funny, since I originally decided to try a front-load for the first time. I bought one at a sears 'outlet' store and I noticed the hose kit was all bent up. I told the sales person and they did make a note on the receipt. it was due to be delivered in a few days. on delivery day, a truck comes by and I go outside. they ask me about a dishwasher. I told them, no, I'm expecting delivery of a clothes washer. they look at their paperwork. they tell me that they have nothing for me and they close up their truck and drive away. I call sears and find out that the delivery guys went to get the unit from sears, they also noticed that no drain hose was included and so they opted not to pack that on their truck. now - WHY they decided to even drive out to my place - THAT is the mystery that I'll probably never solve. they did not pick up the washer, fine; but why drive out to my place and do that dance, then turn around and drive away? very odd. eventually I worked out a deal with the store manager and got a new top-loader for the sale price of the other one. had it a year so far and its dealt with anything I throw at it, up to its large capacity (large comforter). with the front loaders, they usually can't handle a large load, and so I'm glad it worked out the way it did.if you can fit a top-loader, don't write them off just because they -look- old fashioned. they still do a great job.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2015, 11:32:10 pm
content: Warning completely off topic, like really out there.On IanB's post above in my case a left click on any of the submitted pictures bought the image up in the same orientation, yet when any image was right clicked and opened in a new window the image would rotate, I have not seen this before so is anyone else seeing the same thing, this is just for future reference and not sure if it is my end using Chrome.This post may be deleted as it is off topic,Thanks....Muttleyhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/sears-kenmore-whirlpool-washer-mold-problem!-argh!/msg785674/#msg785674

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:09:41 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on October 25, 2015, 11:32:10 pmCould be that when the image is embedded it shows as formatted based on image encoding, and when opened in a separate window, the browser figures it can follow additional information embedded in the header including orientation (usually written by the camera sensor).

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:18:12 am
content: Thanks edy,As mentioned I hadn't seen this before and went and checked around on dozens of other images on the forum and it was the only set I found that seemed to do it, I figured that it was with the images themselves but just wanted to check as some people do go to a lot of effort with posting pictures and may find it annoying.Best RegardsMuttley

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:33:36 am
content: I have absolutely no idea why that happens. It is true that the original picture was stored in landscape mode* (stupid iPhone!) and I rotated it in the picture editor. However, the picture attributes now show it as width 600, height 800. My guess is that maybe it is a Chrome bug. I see the problem too, but when I view the image in other apps besides Chrome (Windows image preview, MS Office, QuickTime, Paint, ...) it shows up with the correct orientation.* Why did my iPhone decide my washing machine was lying on its side (first image), when it is clearly standing upright on its feet?

author: Tim F
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:44:01 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on October 25, 2015, 10:33:37 amGot a Fisher and Paykel top loader going 7+ years here and never any mould using a 'warm/cold' water setting and mild/hypo-allergenic detergent. It gets soap residue in the soap dispenser but that is easy enough to clean.Quote from: TerraHertz on October 25, 2015, 12:32:42 pmThey are more water efficient since the entire load doesn't have to be submerged at any one time. That said, top loaders have caught up in the last decade or so by more efficient rinse cycles.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:51:55 am
content: This is just a test to see what happens when they are run up to full inline images, if they rotate then this could be a pain for people, as you said it may be the way these pictures were rotated or saved. again this post may be deleted, it's just a test.It seems to be ok when inline

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 04:05:51 am
content: It takes a special kind of special to design a system which gets moldy despite being exposed to bleach weekly, or at least monthly. Or can you not use chlorine bleach in front loaders for some reason?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 04:16:04 am
content: You can indeed use bleach in front loaders. There is even a bleach compartment in the detergent tray.Apparently the manufacturers recommend running a hot cleaning cycle with bleach about once a month to keep the machine clean. But few people actually do this, of course. It's not something I have ever thought about. I assumed, perhaps naively, that if a machine is operated regularly with detergent to wash things then the least it can do is to wash its own innards with the very same detergent.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 05:51:16 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 25, 2015, 12:32:42 pmI'm one to talk coming from dry Australia, but it strikes me that this problem is only half to do with the washer design/toothbrush handle; and the other half is in your control: the environment that these things are kept in. There isn't a non-contrived material in the world that'll grow mold in a well-aerated, non-damp environment. Even if it's only newer toothbrushes that exhibit this problem, I suggest that still doesn't change the fact that you should see it as a warning sign about the conditions in your bathroom.Even in Australia, I have a dehumidifier.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 06:59:50 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on October 25, 2015, 09:30:57 pmThe issues are no different over here. Front loaders have been common over here for many decades. In fact, I seem to remember my parents had one when I was just a couple of years old, in the second half of the 1970s. When that was discarded because of a leaking tub, we used a top loader that we had inherited for many years until the mechanical clock went and back came a front loader. Did we ever have mold or smell issues? Not that I can recall.The issue has become more common now that people do their laundry at lower temps. Modern detergents can do it, in fact for a couple of years now detergents are being marketed that are claimed to be effective from cold (15 C). But for killing bacteria etc, 60 C or higher is necessary, at least once in a while to keep the inside of the machine clean.QuoteYes, front loaders are more or less standard over here, but top loaders do remain available because of their narrow footprint (~40 cm vs 60 cm).I can't really imagine that there's much difference between European or US models. A washer is just a drum in a tub driven by an electric motor and some bellows/gaskets and hoses.Just look at the pcs ofthisGerman washer which I happen to have, how is that different from US models (apart from the absence of numerous warning stickers)?Edit: just checked the bellows on my machine: this one has been done right, all the water drains from it. After two days in not particularly dry weather (60-75% humidity) only a few drops are left. My old machine would have a puddle there...

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 07:50:01 am
content: Quote from: helius on October 25, 2015, 10:37:57 pmYes, but in very low concentrations inside the undiluted detergent. Just enough from mold growing in your liquid detergent for a couple of years. Some products actually have an expiration date printed on the package which typically is no more than 1.5-2 years in the future.I wonder if they are still effective once the detergent has been diluted in the washer. Powder detergents may not have them at all.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 08:20:13 am
content: QuoteYes, well...it is hard to imagine how it's the 21st century and the US front loaders have any kind of issue .THe tell tale sign of a US model is the very large door. I dunno why. but they are BIG.Take a look here and see if they look "normal" compared to the european models:http://www.kenmore.com/laundry-washers-front-load-washers/b-1040209

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 08:25:41 am
content: For comparison here is a link showing a bunch of AEGs :http://www.aeg.nl/Products/Wasruimte/WasautomatenThe cutout is similar in size but the glass part is smaller.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 08:32:54 am
content: Oh and the kenmores spin at the "incredible" speed of 1400 RPM (witha full one whole year warranty)the AEG at 1400-1600-1700 depending on model without using the word "incredible" with a measly 10 year warrantyYeah... over here we are being taken to the cleaners by the appliance companies and their marketing writersEdit - to add warranty rant

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 09:12:12 am
content: I must admit to no experience with toploaders, no room for one unless in garden shed.Have had a Miele front loader for nearly eleven years now and mostly use bio detergents at 30 centigrade.I do follow the instructions to do a hot >60c wash every few cycles and normally reserve this for my towels. Although the reason for this stated in the instructions is to avoid scale buildup.Touch wood, never seen any sign of mold.

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 09:43:56 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on October 26, 2015, 08:20:13 amThe huge front door is a newish trend in washing machines, especially on top-of-the-line modelsIt is not exclusive to US, european ones like this Siemenshttp://www.siemens-home.com/ie/productlist/laundry/washing-machines/WM16Y792GB?breadcrumb=washingmachinesand most models made by LG and Samsung feature the huge door.It creates the impression that the drum inside is bigger, but after close inspection on one such unit, it seems that the glass front is actually larger than the drum itself

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 12:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on October 26, 2015, 04:16:04 amNever seen that on any of the machines I've used. Usually there are three compartments.I=Detergent (powder) for pre-wash (if selected such a program)II=Deterget (powder) for the normal washing cyclesIII=Fabric softener (liquid) for the next-to-last rinse cycle

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 01:17:54 pm
content: So you have a mouldy old washer.The mould spores came from your home, not from the manufacturer. And years after purchase. Shit happens. This is a biochemistry problem, not an electronics problem.Once mould takes hold, it's hard to get rid of. Pull the machine to bits and chemically treat the shit out of every component, to make sure all the mold is dead. Then run on empty with a mild bleach solution every 5-10 cycles to stop the mould coming back.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 03:31:26 pm
content: Quote from: SteveLy on October 26, 2015, 01:17:54 pmYes the problem is certainly multi-factorial, and mold spores can exist almost everywhere. It's just a matter of finding the right conditions and the spores will germinate and begin to grow. The washer can be a perfect breeding-ground due to the dark damp conditions and the semi-permeable substrate (rubber bellows) that can allow it to penetrate into the material.Having said that, you must admit that different machine designs and the materials they used in their manufacture do make a difference in the susceptibility to forming mold. Some machines will require more maintenance, more frequent cleaning, more care to ensure the conditions for mold don't happen. Certainly, nobody is saying the manufacturer injected mold spores into the machines to make them go moldy. But under "regular use" the machines will all differ.Every company makes design mistakes and over-sights. For example, even the top-loading washers have "EXPLODED" (see YouTube videos) due to the supporting struts for the tub being made out of plastic and breaking during the high-speed cycle, causing the tub to ricochet off the inside of the machine, breaking it apart and send the machine flying into neighbouring appliances and walls and even bystanders.The issue I believe with the lawsuits is that Whirlpool knew of this problem in 2004, yet continued without modification to the design or materials, or anything to address this issue at least until 2008 (and I'm not sure what has been done after to remedy this issue in newer machines). What they did was start selling a special "cleaning agent" called Affresh, at profit, to deal with the problem (further adding insult to injury to people who were having this issue).In any case, one has to wonder WHY it is happening to certain U.S. designs and not European, and if it has to do with the consumer expectations and behavior and history, or the actual design of the machine itself. Personally I think American manufacturers decided to embark on a more prestigious style of machine they didn't completely understand which European manufacturers had refined over many more years and learned their lessons on. The same thing cheaper Chinese and Korean manufacturers are starting to learn about, not having had the experience and history behind them to learn how the machines tend to fail. The price of innovation is that we are all guinea pigs.`

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 04:31:33 pm
content: Never had a problem with Defy machines, aside from the regular need to replace the mechanical timer ( they are all the same timer, you just buy a kit with a timer, a few jumper wires and a sheet of model specific jumpers to do) with a new one when it stops. Drum seals are smaller, so less space, and the deep dished glass door means it can be much simpler with no folds to flex. You can change them in under 20 minutes, though the pros can do it in under 5. they do have 2 soap dispensers, and a softener tray along with a bleach tray. Pre wash, main wash, softener or the bleach cycle. The soapdispenser tends to build up a crud, but it is smooth and easy to take out and clean.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 06:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on October 26, 2015, 08:20:13 amAt first the Kenmores you linked to looked pretty indistinguishable from European or Asian washers, but then I looked up the width of a few Kenmore front loaders.At 27 inches (68.8 cm) they're a bit wider than their European counterparts. Typically front loaders are 60 cm wide (23.6 in) over here.The (relatively) big doors are quite common over here too nowadays, especially on the more expensive machines, usually those with 8 kg or more laundry capacity.It's hard to compare capacities, in the US it looks like it's specified in cubic feet while over here it's common to specify the weight of the (dry) laundry that the drum can hold.So, out came the tape measure. The usable part of the drum measures ~26 cm deep and 49 cm in diamater, which, if my math is correct leads to a capacity of almost 50 l or 1.7 cu ft. That's even less than the "little" Kenmore of just 24 in wide.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 08:56:36 pm
content: We probably should "Fact-Check" most of the claims by manufacturers these days on the capacity of their washing machines. I think we are going to find an odd definition of capacity and a marketing bull$h!t race going on.For example, take the LG WT5680HVA.Is it 5.0 cu ft? or 5.2 cu ft? or 6.1 cu ft?Here is LG's page for it (6.1 cu ft):http://www.lg.com/ca_en/washing-machines/lg-WT5680HVA-top-load-washerHere's BestBuy (5.0 cu ft):http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-5-0-cu-ft-14-cycle-high-efficiency-steam-top-loading-washer-graphite-steel/1540212.p?id=1219054918696&skuId=1540212Here's Amazon (5.2 cu ft):http://www.amazon.com/LG-WT5680HVA-Graphite-Steel-Washer/dp/B00P819GK6Well, WHICH IS IT!

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 06:23:18 am
content: I agree. I have yet to see a machine specified differently by different sellers, they all seem to take the factory spec.That spec, capacity of dry laundry the drum can hold, is also a bit iffy to me. I mean can you stuff a drum full of heavy denim or light silk and still get the same capacity?That reminds me of a joke you can make when people have no time to think it through: "What's heavier, a kg of lead or a kg of feathers?" You would be surprised at how many answer: "a kg of lead" and then see the look of being the vicitm of a prank on their faces when you explain that a kg (1 kg) of feathers is exeactly as heavy as 1 kg of lead...Let's just say that when I got my AEG that is specified to hold 7 kg of dry laundry, that I gave it a test. Mostly cotton laundry, but no, I couldn't get 7 kg to fit...So yeah, the marketing people are a little "creative" when it comes to specifications.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 01:10:58 pm
content: I want to give a shout out for heat pump water heaters. Not only is the energy use half of a resistive element water heater but you get a dehumidifier for free. The wife loves it as the basement is a lot nicer now with the circulating air and the delicates she hangs up there dry faster. I can get up to a gallon of water out of the air a day (took a while before I piped in the drain and I had to empty buckets). Mine is a NYLE bought off ebay for $365 shipped that adds on to any electric water heater (I bought two). These were new overstock from a utility HOTSHOT program that did an engineering study (it can be found on the internet). They still have some other makes at the same price. It's a deal compared to $1600 for a GE unit. Really made the basement nicer and for those in southern climates it is free air conditioning. Mold will start anywhere if the humidity is above 53%.