Soldering station with vacuum desoldering - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 01:35:55 pm
content: I decided it's time to invest in a soldering station and I'm having trouble choosing one.I will be using it for medium to small jobs (would that require 2 different soldering pencils or I can just do with different tips?).It would be nice to have an option for a proper vacuum desoldering too, the vacuum pump in near useless half the times.Hakko FX888-17BY looks nice at just over £100 but no mention of vacuum desoldering.Any suggestions?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 02:07:57 pm
content: A hot air station is much more versatile and useful than a vacuum desoldering tool (IMHO).Vacuums (manually or automated) are mainly used with through hole components.A hot air station can be used to (de)solder smd devices, shrink tubes, soften adhesives and so on.There are nice solder stations such as the Aoyue 968 (+similar/clones) that have the solder pencil and the hot air gun integrated in a single package.Cheers,Dan

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 02:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: Balaur on November 14, 2011, 02:07:57 pmI guess you never used a vacum desoldering tool?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 02:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 14, 2011, 02:10:40 pmI've built one, 18 years ago, from gas tubing, a bakelite tip, and various bits of stuff. Previously, I have tried to suck (i.e with my mouth) the melted solder with some tubing. Not fun!I had to, because I've broken my Sinclair Spectrum clone when building an EPROM programmer. The 26V Vpp accidentally arrived on poor Z80 data bus. I was devastated, but managed to get everything back on working order.I had to replace the CPU, all the memory chips, 6+ logic chips, the original EPROM, etc.For soldering, I wasn't happy with big 100+ Watt soldering gun, so I had built a variable power soldering iron with bits of mica, a copper tip filed to size and heating wire from a defective heater.Eh, my childhood in a communist country had its moments.Cheers,Dan

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 02:35:25 pm
content: Nice history but i can reccomend to the author the ZD987. Especially because beginners like to scavenge PCB-s for parts and with such tools disasembling the PCB from a average PC SMPS takes few minuttes.

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 04:28:34 pm
content: ZD987 looks exactly like what I need. Nothing in the UK, it might go under a different name here but found it in Germany for 118 euros. I would prefer vacuum desoldering over hot air simply because, even though less useful for other stuff, it will cover ALL desoldering jobs.@Balaur let me take a stab, is that communist country Romania?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2011, 04:37:05 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 14, 2011, 02:35:25 pmAlso an efficient techniqueThis one tooQuote from: Leuven on November 14, 2011, 04:28:34 pm

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 01:47:33 am
content: Quote from: Balaur on November 14, 2011, 04:37:05 pmI've done an entire mainboard like that before, too. But I just popped it in the oven, on top of a ceramic tile. I opened the door a few times to check when things started to get loose.Once I could slide things around, I just took it out, ceramic tile and all, and started lifting everything off the board with tweezers.You have to work fast, but not too fast. It does start to cool quickly, but I found I could quickly clean a board, including plastic connectors and things. And the plastic parts never melted because I never overheated it.The hot air gun seems like it would be to easy to overheat things quickly.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 02:50:28 am
content: this thing is surprisingly good for the price.45watt desoldering iron

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 06:14:56 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on November 15, 2011, 01:47:33 amOnce it is hot enough take the board out with some pliers and bang the board on some hard surface. Watch the parts falling off. Beware of hot solder splattering around.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 07:23:33 am
content: Quote from: Leuven on November 14, 2011, 04:28:34 pmBe careful of counterfits! There are many look alike clones of ZhongDi but they are much much lower quality.Quote from: Balaur on November 14, 2011, 04:37:05 pmIf you want to get burned, if you want to burn the PCB, if you want to stress parts mechanically and thermaly. I have nothing against creativity but we are in modern age.This taken only few minuttes of my time with ZD987 and all was clean, no flying melted solder instead all waste solder was nicely contained in small tube.http://hacklordsniper.com/Slike_projekata/Projekt_(4)/Slika%20(7).JPG

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 08:32:25 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 15, 2011, 06:14:56 amlol.. I bet you're fun at the local Un-Maker party...

author: aparlett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 09:19:16 am
content: check out the Atten 858D Hot Air rework stationDave did a review can get it for $60which is dam cheap

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 10:47:36 am
content: Yeah damn cheap but also rather crap and - if I remember correctly - it turned out some units were outright dangerous.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 10:57:24 am
content: Quote from: david77 on November 15, 2011, 10:47:36 amMine works perfect and im not complaining since i got it dirt cheap on ebay

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 12:00:47 pm
content: A good spring desoldering tool works pretty well if you keep them clean and lubricated.You should put extra solder on the pad first, so there's more metal to keep it molten for longer.I normally set my iron to 400C when desoldering with the tool which also helps.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 12:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on November 15, 2011, 12:00:47 pmIt works not so good as vacum soldering iron. And makes alot of mess when you push the spring since small pieces of solder and dust fell out.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 01:29:01 pm
content: This thinghttp://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=DS017beats all the other hand held desoldering tools I've tried so far.As Psi says, you have to keep them clean and the sealing o-ring must be in good condition and greased.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 02:50:35 pm
content: Yes, I use that for touch ups, there is an all metal version Chinese clone for about $3 works well too. Its one low tech thing that most can copy well and still do a good job. As low as $2 with free shipping to the USA.http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A5646&rt=nc&_nkw=desoldering+pump&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1I think a dedicated desoldering gun works very well particularly when you don't want to risk injuring the PCB too. This model from Hakko is very reliable and easy to service compared to the desktop ones.http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=838&Page=1I find I can use the 858D Atten/WEP hot air rework that Dave recommends, after doing the safety upgrades and I use this more than anything else today.Threads on what was done to make it safe are easy to search for.Quote from: david77 on November 15, 2011, 01:29:01 pm

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 03:39:20 pm
content: You can easily avoid the mess by keeping the tip over a trash can (in my case an empty area of my work bench I later sweep) while pressing the plunger. The cheap versions also work fine, but have more recoil and have more tendency to spew around solder while sucking. A real vaccuum tool is definitely superior, but I'm not sure if I'd spend the money for hobby use. You can buy a fair amount of components for that kind of money, so buying it for scavenging parts is unlikely to be economical. Of course it's a different matter if you use it to remove a large DIP IC from an expensive multilayer PCB without damaging either.

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 05:38:05 pm
content: That Hakko 808 is very nice but over the budget at 200$, especially that it's just for desoldering. The thing is I really don't want another manual pump, I had enough of them lot. This time I want to spend a buck and make it easy for myself.Farnell sells something similar to those ZD987 double units at £140, it's called Duratool D00674. They are also available separately, in single units.http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00674/soldering-rework-station-uk-eu/dp/1498363If I were to get desoldering station as a single unit, is there any reason why I couldn't alternate both a soldering pencil and desoldering gun in the same socket?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 08:46:48 pm
content: Quote from: Leuven on November 15, 2011, 05:38:05 pmProbably just badge-engineering, since Duratool is, to quote FarnellQuote

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 09:06:29 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 15, 2011, 12:07:28 pmKids these days ... Don't they get any proper bench training any more?For this and other tiny metal scrap, e.g. cutoff component leads, one keeps a small tin can on the bench. A flat one, like an Altoids tin, or some other mint tin, where one has cut a 1/2" hole into the top, works best.You just load the spring while you keep the tip in the tin can. And when you cutoff component leads, have small wire cutoffs, or any other tiny metal scrap you routinely throw them in the tin can.That was really one of the first things I got taught about proper workmanship at the bench. Remember kids, a neat, clean and orderly workplace is a safe workplace. And it keeps the short-circuits away.In the good old days the tin can often doubled as an ashtray, too. Smoking at the bench wasn't frowned upon.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2011, 11:22:33 pm
content: Vacuum desoldering tools work quite well for through-hole components,provided you use the correct tip for the lead size.The correct process is to place the tip over the lead end,& as soon as the solder melts,wiggle the tip to loosen the bond,& then,& only then,operate the vacuum control.If you just place the tip over the lead without the wiggling,you will fail to remove all the solder,& probably rip the land off the board,too.I'm not wildly impressed by hot air guns,but the one I've used was pretty poor.Solder braid is expensive,but effective,& that is what I usually use.VK6ZGO

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2011, 04:50:15 am
content: Quote from: Leuven on November 15, 2011, 05:38:05 pmThis is Zd917 clone or rebrand, i reviewed it also on this forum. Its first version and its bad, you must search for ZD987

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2011, 02:35:52 am
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 16, 2011, 04:50:15 amOk, thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2011, 06:04:29 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 15, 2011, 09:06:29 pmToday kiddies like to have the whole bench almost "sanitized" and avoid dust with lead

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 01:07:04 am
content: All right, I've managed to get myself a JBC station and boy, do I understand why people rave about them! It looks and feels quality all the way through, amazing attention to detail, very easy to set up and gets up to temp in a blink. Best part, came off ebay brand new in sealed box at £107 shipped - that's what I call a bargain!For the desoldering part, thinking to get the cheap and cheerful Atten hot air station. It will do me for now.Thanks for all the advice folks.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 01:56:05 am
content: Very wise decision. I wanted to post "get a JBC" but I didnt think it fit in the theme of this thread. JBC has the widest range of tip styles I have ever seen along with the highest thermal performance.

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 01:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on November 22, 2011, 01:56:05 amYeah, I've noticed that too. Huge range of tips (they call them cartridges), plus there was a leaflet in the box with all the pencils/tips/accessories very nicely laid out for you to pick and choose. Their website and literature is top notch, I'm a designer myself and I rarely see a tool company going to the trouble of investing in interface design so that ANYBODY would understand what the heck is going on. That is of course very helpful for me as a beginner, a week ago I didn't know the first thing about soldering stations.Then there's the price, not cheap at £20 a cartridge but probably well worth it.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 01:36:29 pm
content: I paid US$396.00 (253£) for that station in the US so you really got a good deal. But tips average around US$24.50 (15.65 £) May I suggest one of your next tips be one of the bent tips like the 245-259 (round point) or 245-963 (screwdriver Point) I saw a soldering video with a guy using this style of tip and realized how versatile they are. You can use the tip just like normal for detail work but when you need to solder something heavier you can lay the whole tip flat to the part or board to get better thermal transfer. It works really well especially with the very small and flexible 245 handle. One other suggestion is to wet your sponge to let it get to normal size then let it dry out again. Then cut parallel slits in the sponge with a sharp knife about 3mm spacing across the whole sponge about half the sponge thickness deep. Sponges from some older stations used to come this way. When you drag your tip thru one of the slits you get both sides of the tip in one swipe. If I am using a bent tip I put the sponge in with the slits running sideways.

author: Leuven
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2011, 02:42:43 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on November 22, 2011, 01:36:29 pmThanks for the suggestions, I want to buy couple extra tips and I will certainly get a bent one too. I'm going from zero to hero with this, my cheapo 25W Antex could only solder with the base of the tip and now I'm cutting slits in the sponge