Does Different RAM Cause Slow Boot Time - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 01:32:24 pm
content: I have two same model oscilloscopes that were Win98 based and now updated to WinXP.Both scopes are identical models, same motherboard, both hard drives are the same manufacture (except one is 32GB and the other is 64GB), both hard drives were cloned from a master hard drive source, and both have 512MB of RAM (x2 256MB sticks).I've turned on both simultaneously and the one with different manufacture RAM sticks takes about 30-35 seconds longer to boot before the oscilloscope program fully loads.Both units show 512MB of RAM.The loading time isn't necessarily an issue, but it's more of wondering if the different manufacture RAM sticks may cause issues with the oscilloscope performance.Does anyone know if the RAM would cause slower boot times and possibly affect the scope too?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 01:49:26 pm
content: Eh, what about the speed of the RAM? Obviously slower RAM will cause slower booting...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 01:53:06 pm
content: Why do you blame RAM when they're obviously have different HDD?

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:03:06 pm
content: QuoteI fairly certain it's the same speed (the covers are on now) just different manufacture. From reading, the computer would just use the slower speed RAM if they were different, but I was wondering if conflicts could be occurring that's causing it to run slower than it should.As mentioned, I'm not worried about waiting an extra thirty-seconds for booting, I just don't want conflicts to be happening with the oscilloscope portion and performance is compromised.QuoteSame hard drive manufacture, just different size. Both were cloned from the same source, so they are identical in file structure.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:12:20 pm
content: ECC RAM or larger memory made Pentium 1 / 2 and computers before slower to boot.In these older scopes, you can upgrade quite a bit. You can try to get a new CPU that can do wonders with the speed.

author: selcuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:18:03 pm
content: I'm assuming those devices as regular PCs. Some motherboards have dual-channel memory controllers. If that is the case and you installed the two RAMs without paying attention to the channel structure, then you may have half the maximum bandwidth.Check the coloring of the RAM sockets on the pictures here. You need to plug each RAM on the same color when you have two of them.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architectureBut I'm not sure whether this effects boot time that much.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:18:57 pm
content: Maybe swap the RAM to see if it's the memory or disk.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:20:00 pm
content: Quote from: bostonman on August 19, 2024, 02:03:06 pmAnd how the same manufacturer suddenly makes them the same performance? Those old drives had vastly different performance between model generations.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:24:12 pm
content: Not to say old flakey HDD may be struggling to read the data resulting in slow access times.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 02:38:50 pm
content: QuoteSorry, I missed a point. Both hard drives are brand new SSD's. It just occurred to me that the IDE cable to SSD interface is different in both due to not being able to get the same one as before.The RAM slots are not colored, they are the standard white (if I remember correctly) color.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 08:38:43 pm
content: Considering very low size and supposed IDE interface, I wonder if those SSD are not some China special with cheap SD card + converter inside. EDIT: I missed the mention of the adapter in the post above. But currently sold 32/64GB SATA are still in the realm of oddball stuff with questionable performance, and likely will be an SD card+adapter I mentioned if it's some off-brand stuff from China.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 09:09:01 pm
content: 30 seconds difference in Windows XP boot speed on identical devices with a cloned system is a lot. I have old computers, and changing SDRAM modules from bad to good will give a difference of 5 seconds. But I admit that it is possible to select a module with such parameters. If the reason is in the IDE cable - then this is possible when using a 40-wire cable instead of an 80-wire cable.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 01:55:03 am
content: SSDs typically have performance that scales with capacity. So that isn't crazy although I would expect a PATA/IDE adapter to be the limiting factor, but maybe not for really slow / crappy SSDs. If you have two adapters that you aren't positive are identical on the inside (regardless of the external branding which means nothing), that could easily make a large difference.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 02:08:05 pm
content: I believe the hard drive in the units is (from Amazon):Transcend TS32GSSD370S 32GB MLC SATAIII 2.5" Internal Solid State Drive with Speeds up to 560MB/sThe slower oscilloscope has the same drive except 64GB. Again though, it's not the boot time that concerns me, it concerns me if it could be a RAM issue that is causing the scope to not perform.So far I haven't seen the scope freezing or anything like that, but, if the RAM could cause slow boot time, maybe at some point I'll see glitches in the scope when taking measurements?I'll boot both again and see if something hasn't changed.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 02:26:51 pm
content: The boot time difference might be caused by the BIOS POST behavior, rather than anything that would affect the scope while it's running.OP, do both the scopes have the same BIOS version? Does the BIOS have a "fast boot" setting?Have you tried swapping the RAM yet?

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 02:38:08 pm
content: QuoteI'm reluctant to mess around with opening the scopes again. The first scope took me a year (off and on) to repair and a few months of upgrading to XP. The RAM isn't easy to access either, but it's an option I may take.Great idea on the BIOS, I'll have to check.At which point does BIOS not affect the loading such as fast boot versus normal boot? As with a normal computer, it boots, shows the XP splash screen, and then begins loading whatever (I guess) is in the 'start up' menu which is the oscilloscope program.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 03:24:44 pm
content: When you disassemble, check the battery. If 2.8 volts or less, replace it. If the BIOS is reset to fail-safe, it may well load for 30 seconds longer. The easiest way to check the memory is with a test program, and you should look not at the overall speed, but at the capabilities, bank interleave, queue depth.Quote from: bostonman on August 19, 2024, 01:32:24 pmIf the memory subsystem is slow, no matter what the reason, it will certainly worsen the performance of the oscilloscope.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 04:05:47 pm
content: Of course the IDE-SATA converter can make a huge difference.If the mothetboard doesn't detect a 80-pin wire it'll reduce the bus speed.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 11:13:48 pm
content: RAM is a red herring and the least probable thing you can find to blame. Even if you put it in single channel mode instead of dual channel and underclock there won't be this much difference. Also what is boot time on a faster scope to begin with?

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 11:31:59 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 20, 2024, 11:13:48 pmThere was such a program - spd-writer. After using it a little, you will understand how to slow down your computer by adjusting RAM. Besides, this is hardware from the Windows 98 era.It is important to make sure that it is not the memory. If the memory speed is OK, then you can stop further investigation if everything works. To avoid wasting time.

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 01:20:27 am
content: QuoteIf it's a Win98 based motherboard, what are the chances 80-pins were around in that era?The IDE cable was replaced in the "faster" scope, and I may be wrong, but I probably purchased an 80-pin. The IDE cable wasn't replaced in the "slower" scope, so it's dependent on whether 80-pins was around in that era.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 02:43:23 am
content: IIRC you should be able to see ATA speed mode in bios or by running some HW info utility in windows.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 02:53:43 am
content: Quote from: Postal2 on August 20, 2024, 11:31:59 pmThat does not address what I said. Sure RAM speed has some effect on performance, however not that much in most cases and RAM speed is hardly a bottleneck during startup. Also IIRC RAM speed had barely any performance effect on hardware of that time, like not more than single digit percentage. Much more important these says.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 03:04:06 am
content: Do you recommend using SDRAM-66 from Nanya?

author: bostonman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 03:17:28 am
content: A brief history:Upon repairing my first scope, I had issues and questioned whether the RAM was bad but didn't have intentions of increasing it; nor upgrading to XP. Someone on CL was selling the exact vintage RAM I needed, so I bought x2 256MB sticks (both the same). It wasn't the RAM causing issues, but I kept the 512MB and upgraded the scope to 512MB.Now I got another scope, same model, and found the same guy selling old sticks, so I bought x2 256MB sticks since I knew the scope would be upgraded to XP.When I got to his house, he gave me two different manufactures because he couldn't find a matching pair. I wasn't excited about it, but figured what's the worst that can happen?Now seeing the one with different sticks is booting slower (which isn't an issue), I'm questioning whether the scope won't perform correctly (glitches during measurements, causes questionable waveforms, etc...).

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 03:23:06 am
content: Quote from: bostonman on August 21, 2024, 03:17:28 amCheck with AIDA64, it can be really slow. Some people just don't realize how slow old hardware can be.Quote from: bostonman on August 21, 2024, 03:17:28 amI wouldn't wait for failures and just replace the memory if it's too slow. It can be incredibly slow.