Am I paying too much to have PCBs made? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: sentry7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 03:31:16 pm
content: Hey guys,I use ExpressPCB for my board manufacturer, and the first board came to a total of about $93 for one board. The cost breakdown was:$ 61.00 - Setup fee$ 01.00 - Quantity : 1$ 16.59 - Area : 23.7 in2$ 14.05 - Shipping : (2ndday air)Is this reasonable compared to the other options out there? The service and communication was great. The only downside is that they force you to use their PCB/SCH software, and you can't export to other file formats (such as gerber files).

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 03:43:22 pm
content: this is around 12x12cm ? ok so the chinese people will do 10 pieces of 15x15cm boards for ... $60 if you can wait a month for shipping, or $76 if you want it in a weekbut you get 5 boards for that price ...http://pcbshopper.com/try to make 10x10 cm boards, the prices are really cheaper if you can: $16 for 5 boards with shipping !you need "standard" quality board thought, but for hobby it's always enought.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 03:43:48 pm
content: $93 foroneroughly 120mmx120mm board?Hellno that's not reasonable. And forcing you to use their software should put them right outanyway.I strongly recommend Literally Anyone Else.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 04:23:16 pm
content: I typically usehttp://www.custompcb.com/for my 2 layer prototypes. They are quick (typically about 1 week), quite inexpensive and the finished quality is good. They have some limitations on minimum drill size, but not a big problem for protos. They also ALLOW you to put multiple designs onto one pcb/panel.I would NEVER use a PCB house that requires anything other than industry standard gerber files.cheers,george.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 06:38:48 pm
content: I'm familiar with ExpressPCB. There is a huge catch22 with this service.For a professional, the price could be reasonable. Shipping is fast. Ordering is easy. Don't even need to make Gerbers. Just click and done.But a professional would not suffer the limited software. Can't do more than two layers. Can't alter paste layer. Can't make a bottom layer silkscreen. List goes on. ExpressPCB software is excellent for one thing. It is very easy to make simple boards with it, without making new device footprints or schematics. It has tools for simply designing the entire copper layer straight off the bat.And a professional might need hundreds/thousands of boards after the prototype is tested. For higher quantity, the price just gets worse.Designing a board in a closed software that can't make gerbers is just a waste of time, unless that software and manufacturing service are simply excellent. This is not the case with either.So the only thing Express PCB is good for is a hobbyist with money to burn and who finds their software easy to use. For one-offs, 2 day shipping, and one click ordering, the price isn't super terrible. I'd continue to use them while learning a new pcb software, pronto. You may also want to learn how to make your own boards, using photoresist or toner transfer. The only easy alternative manufacturer is yourself. And of course you will continue to use their service in the interim. You don't have any other choice!ExpressPCB is a useful concept. It's a little like PICAXE of the PCB design/manufacturing world. Super simple, but you pay a premium and will not find it terribly useful beyond proof of concept of simple designs.

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 06:57:52 pm
content: Try PCBshopper.comPut in your specs, and you can have 5 boards from Smart-Prototyping in 5 Days for $124.25 US DOLLARS.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 07:12:07 pm
content: Basically, IMHO, ExpressPCB is only good for a somewhat rich hobbyist who is not ambitious on going on and getting things done better way. It's expensive, very limited, and it's rather difficult to migrate to more sustainable workflows later because you have learned a whole CAD which is no good for any other manufacturer, and you need to throw the whole experience away and start over.I understand their business idea and why people "fall" for that. PCB software usually are overly complex. Theirs is simple to use, and hits a certain audience. I love simple PCB CADs too.Learn another CAD, export standard manufacturing files and use pcbshopper.com to compare prices. I have had very good experience from both Shenzen2u and Pcbway; either one almost always tends to be the cheapest one. Fabled "hobbyist-friendly" fabs such as Seeedstudio or OSHpark are often considerably more expensive and do not offer any real benefits AFAIK. Minus side for Shenzen2u and PCBway is that they use shady marketing tactics; OTOH, OSHpark has publicly shamed a customer for no reason and they apparently use sub-hobbyist level machinery, refusing to produce perfectly normal boards, so it's not always great with these "higher-profile" options either! Just use the cheapest.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 09:08:10 pm
content: QuoteRight there is a big deal breaker for me. No gerber means you're locked in to only using them for your designs. I didn't even bother to use ExpressPCB when I was starting out.Plus... it's now 2015. PCB setup fees are so passé. Lots of companies that are cheaper, without setup fees and reasonably fast too. (within 1 week, coming from China).I just checked my last order with PCBWay, $80 for a 5.75" x 4.5" PCB,25 pcs total. + shipping. I think shipping was $38, with tracking # via DHL. PCBs arrived within a week.QuoteFor me, that's still expensive compared to what I can get from PCBWay.

author: _dx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 09:17:47 pm
content: http://dirtypcbs.com/Have some experience with this guys. Best price, no problems with >200pcs. of 2layer 0.254/0.2mm PCB with 0.5mm Vias. Quality was really prefect!

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 09:24:25 pm
content: How many layers? HASL/ENIG? Premium-tier w/s specs? Special needs?I'm really cheap so mostly use dirtypcbs.com. Actually, to be specific there is inherent value in getting a pile of 5x5cm HASL boards back for $14 even if it takes 3-4 weeks. Though DHL doesn't add much if doing 2-3 boards in one order. Cheap promotes all manner of experimentation and testing. Curious about a new uC? Make a small test board. The low price allows treating boards as a consumable.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 10:12:47 pm
content: Way too much.Try pcbway.com or Goldenphoenixpcb

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 10:16:15 pm
content: I'd personally recommend OSHPark.https://oshpark.com/Great boards & even better customer service. Can upload gerbers or Eagle .brd files.

author: philh
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 10:51:06 pm
content: Here you are price can't be beat and every option you want.Regular Two sided 5cm x 5cm boards 10 pieces $9.90 highly recommended.http://www.seeedstudio.com/service/index.php?r=pcb

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2015, 10:51:24 pm
content: Just FYI, regarding sending an Eagle .brd file, I have heard other people call this a feature, too. But unless the manufacturer is going to actually fix your mistakes and send the .brd file back to you, there's absolutely no reason to do this over sending Gerbers. It's a security risk for nothing.If you can design a board in Eagle, outputting Gerbers to meet any manufacturer's specification is child's play. Another 20 minutes of fiddling on the 50 hours you spent learning the quirks of Eagle. That's like running a triple iron man and stopping 2 inches from the finish line! And without actually looking at everything that goes into the Gerber layers, anyway, you will eventually run into some issues/conflicts which are difficult to handle through laborious and time-sucking email or phone correspondence. Stuff that would have been obvious and easily corrected/conveyed in an absolute manner, if you had made the Gerbers.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 06:23:21 am
content: As far as ExpressPCB is concerned, the first thing you have to do is learn to use some other standard Gerber-output CAD/CAM/EDA tool, because until you've done that, looking at other fabs is moot.

author: Dielectric
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 04:48:23 pm
content: Quote from: georges80 on November 01, 2015, 04:23:16 pmI'll +1 CustomPCB / Silver Circuits. I've been using them for years now, nice stuff cheap with a reasonable time period. I get my boards in about 10 days, typically. Great registration, nice clear silkscreens too. OSHPark is fine, too. I just placed my first order with Dirty because someone had some stuff I wanted linked up there. I guess it's really cheap but I don't know if I've got the patience, ordered on Oct 11, shipped out in a couple of days but no tracking so who knows if/when I'll see the boards. Hong Kong airmail, 1-8+ weeks.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 11:45:04 pm
content: You should switch to a different PCB CAD software package. A little-known feature of PCBShopper is that it has a list offree CAD software. The list includes open source software and zero-cost, crippled versions of commercial packages. What makes this list different from others is that it tells you in what way the commercial packages have been limited (e.g. Eagle has size limits, DipTrace has pin limits, etc.). You can then decide which limits you're willing to live with.And as others here have mentioned, once you have your PCB design ready, you can use PCBShopper'sprice comparison calculatorto help find a manufacturer.- Bob

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 11:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on November 01, 2015, 10:51:24 pmThis. I've found so many errors that are virtually invisible on in the CAD software, but are revealed by careful layer-by-layer inspection/sanity-checking of the final Gerbers.I've even made little tweaks to Gerber files, even though that is terrible practice for obvious reasons.

author: sentry7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 01:14:02 am
content: Thanks for all of the useful suggestions here guys. I'll be parsing through all of the good stuff here, but keep the suggestions coming.I guess I should've saw it coming when I went in with this manufacturer. The bad part is that now, I have no way of moving the work I've already done to other CAD packages. The good news is that with the better software, it should be a breeze to redo the one board I've designed already. It could've been much worse.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 01:17:13 am
content: Quote from: sentry7 on November 03, 2015, 01:14:02 amHeh, it'salmostas if that is part of their business plan...

author: sentry7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 01:19:39 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on November 03, 2015, 01:17:13 amI know...makes me wonder.

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 10:09:37 am
content: rs20, can you provide some examples of what kind of errors you're talking about?ExpressPCB has the "walled garden" approach to customer retention. Locks you in.All is dandy until you try to escape -- then you realize you've been screwed over.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 10:32:44 am
content: Quote from: fivefish on November 03, 2015, 10:09:37 amObviously design rules check catches the things that are certain to make the board fail, but I'm talking about unnecessarily iffy clearances, pour segments which are almost islands, tracks that don't quite reach the pad (so are technically connected but unnecessarily thin), and so on. Also, tented vs non tented vias, unwanted silkscreens, verifying that graphics on the solder mask layers have been interpreted correctly. As well as more aesthetic things. These things can be lost in the CAD package where you're seeing everything at once.I also just genuinely enjoy looking at all the layers and how they correlate together.

author: oodavid
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 10:57:22 am
content: I too need to start thinking about PCB printing. Do any of the suggested board houses do Pick n Place too?Quote from: sentry7 on November 03, 2015, 01:14:02 amWill you make an exact replica or do you think the new board will end up different?

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 12:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: oodavid on November 03, 2015, 10:57:22 amAre you getting hundreds or thousands of boards made? Watch Dave's video tour of a pick and place facility to understand why getting 10 or less boards pick-and-placed for you is unreasonable.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 01:33:09 pm
content: Thnks everyone. I too am looking to get my first PCBs made.I have been using DipTrace for a few months now. It is free for 2 layers and 300 pins and you can get a free non-profit license for 500 pin layouts. DipTrace was very easy to learn (a day or two) and can import Eagle files and parts. The DipTrace component list is not very big but it's easy to create new parts or import ones.

author: jolshefsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 01:48:31 pm
content: I used to use BatchPCB before they became OSHPark and stick with them for prototypes. My goal is to get (1) boards that work, that are (2) available in ~2 weeks, (3) made in ethical working conditions (usually U.S.; definitelynot China), and (4) reasonably priced per-unit. If you change the order of those goals then you might pick a different vendor.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 04:40:08 pm
content: I'm an Eagle / OshPark user. Before that I used to use batchpcb, and I would send off gerbers and neurotically inspect them with Gerbview before sending them off. Prior to switching I had one mishap where I forgot to send the bottom layer for a board (doh! How this that happen?). Since switching to OshPark and sending off the Eagle board files, I haven't had any mishaps. Oshpark breaks out most of the layers into separate images during the submission process. It's not as good as using Gerbview to interactively toggle layers on and off, but it is good enough to idiot-check that I'm not missing something.I do try to design conservatively, upping trace widths and clearances when feasible.What's the 'security concern' with sending Eagle board files? That someone is going to steal your board layout? Couldn't they still do that with Gerbers? It'd be more work and they may have to figure out the component values themselves, but for a determined thief that seems plausibe. Besides, as soon as we make a widget and then give/sell it to someone else, they can try to reverse engineer it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 06:45:14 pm
content: Quotee.g.Some of the pads you have placed might be bare for a reason, and you might inadvertently have them in your paste layer, because you used pads from a library or you forget to remove the paste layer on your own footprint.Do you know if your vias are tented or not? Examine your paste layer. You might have to change some setting to get what you want.Sometimes you may want a custom Gerber layer with detailed placement information (device outlines/reference markers) for an assembly service. But perhaps this information should not be printed on the silkscreen, because it would make things too busy, or because that information goes over areas of exposed copper.What are all the various "other layers" in you Eagle.brd files that are "never used?" You can use those for w/e you want. You can add those to w/e Gerber layers you want. Is part of your toolset.

author: sentry7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2015, 08:06:53 pm
content: Quote from: oodavid on November 03, 2015, 10:57:22 amI would like it to be as close to the original as possible, but if the new software has an autorouting feature (ExpressPCB does not), I will probably wind up using that instead of manually redoing the entire board.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 01:53:23 am
content: the dream of autorouting.. If you ask around the professuonal board desingers here ,there will be very few using auto-routing.. thats becaseu geenrally its rubbish

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:11:14 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on November 04, 2015, 01:53:23 amI've found that autorouting is always worth a shot. I've done a lot of projects where it did a fine job, and I've done two or three where I had to do manual routing. The ones that needed manual routing have had address buses or data buses or even a row of 14 segment LEDs. Essentially, a routing solution required lots of parallel traces; the autorouter couldn't see that and plan accordingly, but I could.What the "professionals" do is irrelevant to what hobbyists like me do (and I notice you allowed that some professionalsdouse autorouting). My boards are smaller and simpler than a lot of professional boards. I suspect that even if I were a pro, I'd want my CAD program to offer the option of autorouting. And really ... are there any good CAD programs thatdon'thave an autorouter?So don't dis the autorouter. If it works for your project, use it without shame.- Bob

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 03:23:35 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on November 04, 2015, 02:11:14 amTheres several autorouters in CAD programs. Most of them produce garbage that needs significant work to clean up.50% of the work in PCB design is about placement and component choice. Where stuff goes reletive to each other makes a massive difference. Theres also a lot of arbitory choices you can make, ( simpel example, a 4 gate package.. any of the gates are good to use, but one will probalby provide a better layout.theres often things that get complex enough that you have so many constraints.. ( differential pairs carrying high speed data, need controlled impedance, matched paths ).. that you just have to put those in..Lastly, i know many folks would bork that the idea, but there is often signficant economy and massive time savings in going to a four layer PCB, from a 2 layer.. Your boards, often get much smaller. ( i've seen physical size reductions of 70% with my student engineers ). This is becuase you can run a gnd and power plane.. If you can reduce board size a lot, a small 4 layer board is going to be no more than a larger 2 layer.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 04:57:57 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on November 04, 2015, 03:23:35 amAgain with the all-vs-nothing, black-vs-white, you-vs-me internet mentality. Have you considered this case: manually placing components (e.g. a bunch of shift registers and 7 segment displays) and critical power and data lines manually; and then using the autorouter to place the 200 tracks from shift register to 7 seg displays? If you already have 4 layers for some other reason, it does an absolutely perfect job and saves a huge amount of time.Saying autorouters are completely useless and should be avoided at all costs is equally as silly as someone who exclusively uses autorouting. There are shades of grey here...

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 05:17:21 am
content: Saying autorouters are completely useless and should be avoided at all costs is equally as silly as someone who exclusively uses autorouting. There are shades of grey here...My grey might be more dark that yours.. but i did use words like"most" and "often". don't think i was compeltley black or white, by saying "all" or "none". Sigh, guess with internet mentality, you did'nt read that.Sigh.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 10:12:44 am
content: Quote from: rea5245 on November 04, 2015, 02:11:14 amAre you sure? Upload a board design here for people to criticise...

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 04, 2015, 10:12:44 amWhat a great idea! Take something I'm 100% satisfied with, and put it on the Internet so people can make me unhappy about it!(I assume you're being facetious, Fungus.)- Bob

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 02:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on November 04, 2015, 02:03:28 pmYou're suddenly not so sure it "did a fine job"...?

author: oodavid
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 03:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on November 03, 2015, 12:19:55 pmYeah, the first batch <10 will have to be hand soldered, but looking at 100 - 200 I guess Pick n Place starts to look appealing! I guess I'd like to use the same company to do the blank PCBs as the eventual PnP service, if only to have built up a rapport.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2015, 04:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: oodavid on November 04, 2015, 03:54:20 pmDepending on size and complexity, it may be more work to setup a machine than to just assemble it yourself.But do yourself a favor and do the paste and reflow process instead of doing everything with an iron. You can get a cheap oven for $200 or buy a kit to refit a toaster.I wouldn't consider moving to a PnP unless I'm doing at least small batch quantities.For the OP: I had to use ExpressPCB at my last job (ended up having to buy my own CAD tools to upgrade). I've personally been using ITEAD for prototyping. They aren't the quickest (a week and a half) but you typically get 10 boards for cheap. You'll also be limited to 4 layers max.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 12:59:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 04, 2015, 02:38:10 pmDepends on your definition of "fine" If an auto-routed board worked correctly and achieved the design goals, then many people would consider that "fine".

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 04:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on November 04, 2015, 04:57:57 amThis is how I route with Eagle and it works great for me. (I am a hobbyist)Quote from: rs20 on November 04, 2015, 04:57:57 amThat claim got debunked.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/the-auto-router-challenge-will-it-work/(an extreme case where *all* the nets were auto routed).

author: mal-c
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:01:34 pm
content: I have used PCBway (http://www.pcbway.com) for the last two projects. A reptile habistat controller, and my reef controller. The last order was for my reef controller, a 12 x 10 cm two layer board in 1.0oz copper, green solder mask and normal white silk screen. the cost was a very reasonable $29 for five boards, and as I was in a hurry opted for and paid extra for the DHL 2-3 day delivery option at around $25 rather then the HongKong post option at $11. The order was procesed within 3 days of it being placed (late in the evening UK time), and so I was given the DHL tracking number and sat back anticipating delivery of my new PCBs in arriving in afew days time. A day or two later, just for fun I logged on to the DHL website and entered the tracking number and to my horror noticed that DHL seemed to be flying my parcel from Heathrow to Gatwick and back again. Heathrow some how sent it to Gatwick, who then sent it back to Heathrow as a being received at the incorrect sorting facility, so tey sent it back to Heathrow. But a Gatwick apparantly is the correct sorting center for my area, Heathrow sent it back again, and this tim it was placed on a van for delivery and I receive dit later that day, some 43 hours after it landed in the UK (it only took 19 hours from being collected in Hong Kong to landing in the UK customs office !! After complaining to DHL they offered a refund of the delivery charge, but as I wasn't their customer I couldn't claim it, so could only refund PCBway, which they did and they in turn refunded me the cost of delivery.The quality of the boards themselves is excellent. In fact for a proptype it is every bit as good as a production board. This board was my first venture in to soldering surface mount components, which to be honest didn't save me a lot of space given the size and quantity of large components that the board uses dictated the dimensions. The silk screening is very clean and tidy, even on small fonts.The project is basically three switched mains supplies for the pumps, which are operated by a combination of four membrane buttons on the front panel to turn the pumps on or off to allow for cleaning, and a 4 channel lighting controller with 4096 PWM steps on each channel. I've already detailed the project build on the forumhttp://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?711856-PCA9685pw-CodingThe most recent project was a revamp of my reptile habistat controller. This time the order consisted of two PCBs, so that resulted in a total of 10 PCB's - Total cost $77 (around £52) inc shipping.-layer number: 2 layers-board thickness: 1.6mm-solder mask color: green-silkscreen color: white-the surface finish:HASL with lead-finished copper thickness: 35?m Cu-pcb quantity: 5pcs each (the minimum order quantity is 5pcs for each project)Driver board -5pcs: $26Reptitherm v3.zip-5pcs: $27The total shipping cost via DHL to UK is $25This time the order went through without any issues. Order was placed on 7th July at 22:36 UK time, and the goods received just before mid-day on 13th July, and it was marked as samples so didn't get stung for duty or VAT either. So that was ten boards, fabricarted and shipped half way around the world and delivered in 6 days, for just £50... Impressed.Again the quality of the boards was excellent. There was no issues with hole sizes, pads or missing silk screening.This project has 4 independent pulse proportional thermostats (uses a PID routine), with programable night time temperature drops, and two individual lighting timers to control the photo period. A high and low temperature alarm system that monitors high and low thresholds settings for each of the four thermostats, and the unit can be set up via a PC application using a bluetooth module. Information is displayed on a 128 x 64 GLCD, using a BV4611 serial controller than makes using the GLCD as simple as sending text to a normal LCD.Not sure how that compares to some of the other board manufactures you guys use, but I'm really pleased with the quality and service I get from PCBway

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:58:38 pm
content: Quote from: mal-c on November 08, 2015, 06:01:34 pmmal-c, can you share with us what is behind your post? I see many first time posters coming here and posting about PCBway and I wonder what causes it.

author: squealer
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 07:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 08, 2015, 06:58:38 pmPCBWay offers coupons worth as much as $100 for positive reviews. See the attached snapshot from their web site.

author: mal-c
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 10:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on November 08, 2015, 06:58:38 pmI've frequented the Ultimate reef forum for some years now, having kept marine fish for the past three years. They have an active DIY section, and quite a few fellow members, like me have made their own controllers and lighting rigs, often using PCB houses to make up the boards. I added a post on that forumhttp://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?770730-PCB-manufacture-Reviewsto get others to post up details of their projects and which house they use, and it was suggested by one member that I reposted over here. I simply copied the post and pictures.Quote from: squealer on November 08, 2015, 07:40:39 pmWasn't awear of that. Last time I used their services they simply gave a $5 coupon if you uploaded the images of the boards to their website... but thanks for the tip off, I might try my hand to see if my post qualifies - Thanks, much appreciated.

author: mal-c
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 09, 2015, 12:52:05 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on November 08, 2015, 11:50:55 pmThanks... I'm no expert, but try to keep things tidy

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2015, 01:05:04 am
content: Extremely expensive!I've had success with ITeadStudio. They aren't exactly fast, but they are quite inexpesive and provide lots of options regarding quality, color, layers, size, shipping, etc.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2015, 09:37:51 am
content: Quote from: mal-c on November 08, 2015, 10:53:32 pmI've spent more than $10k with pcbway in the last month and they are great

author: Aarom
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 08:08:25 am
content: It is really expensive, similar data will be much cheaper in other manufacturers, the 10PCS standard board is about $ 24, on aipcba.com.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 08:17:21 am
content: Quote from: Aarom on April 13, 2020, 08:08:25 amThanks for your spam Mr Aipcba, we really don't get enough of round here. No, really.

author: malc-c
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 10:47:20 am
content: I must admit PCBWay have become quite expensive recently. I developed the controller for my reptiles habitat further by porting from PICs to the Ardunio platform and had some prototype boards made by JLCPCB for a third the cost PCBWay quotedOne main difference is shipping - PCBWay charged $25 to ship to UK, and then with a higher value order the duty was more