Someone needs to Slap the Microsoft-Skype abortion employees - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 11:31:56 pm
content: Twice!

author: Ash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 12:01:18 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on August 15, 2017, 11:31:56 pmYep, preferably repeatedly..What was once mostly functional has now become a rainbow farting unicorn interface which is terrible to use...On my phone, calls always start in speaker mode, rather than normal ear piece mode and I can't find any settings to fix it..Ash.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 02:49:53 am
content: Quote from: Ash on August 16, 2017, 12:01:18 amDavid2 (who is a Microsoft fanboy), concurs.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 03:12:40 am
content: Huh? This sounds like a rant coming from a schizophrenic off his meds.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 05:23:13 am
content: If you can get past the gamery exterior (I can, as I am a gamer), Discord is the most promising offer. Google Hangouts is actually pretty decent too, although the UI is a bit of a mess.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 10:53:32 am
content: QuoteMaybe if they are too busy getting slapped around they'll quit screwing it up.Although, smart idiots in large numbers should never be underestimated.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 11:03:09 am
content: I rarely use it but as far as I could tell the "Skype for business" thing doesn't work with the normal Skype application and needs some stupid plugin that doesn't work with Firefox (or at least I couldn't get it to work)

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 11:25:00 am
content: We've given up on Skype and adopted VSee instead, nice clean minimalist interface, very low system overhead, secure, better video and no ads.That pretty much makes up the 'declaration of independence' set now... Firefox instead of Chrome / IE. DuckDuckgo instead of Google. Sumatra PDF instead of Adobe and NO FLASH!

author: Ash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 12:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 16, 2017, 11:03:09 amAh, yes.. Marketing..Skype for Business used to be called Lync. It has absolutely nothing to do with Skype. You might be able to use Skype credits to call out to a Lync service, but that would be just like a normal phone call.For what it is worth, even friends of mine that work for Microsoft think this was crazy..I also try to avoid Skype when possible, but I can't always.Ash.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 12:18:45 pm
content: Skype for business is a total pile of shit. We got it when we inherited office 365 when the CTO decided he'd had enough of running exchange. This was mandated by the business as the one true tool because of the spec sheet. One year down the line and we're using Slack internally (started on an internal rebellion by the sales team) and just phone each other and clients.

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 01:54:44 pm
content: We just switched to Skype from IBM Sametime.It seems better for the most part (wouldn't be hard), but the UI is confusing and very, extremely, astonishingly, impressively slow. I can type a whole sentence, push enter, and alt-tab away before anything updates on the screen. Same thing with highlighting- Click, drag, release, wait, contemplate life choices, check personal phone, maybe grab a bite to eat and then it'll show the highlighting and I can control-C it.I'm also not a fan of the whole "everything is giant and takes up half the screen for no reason" thing, either.

author: 691175002
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 02:12:19 pm
content: Failures of this magnitude are rarely precipitated by the programmers themselves.Some middle manager drank too much of the "touch ui" kool-aid, then paid outside consultants $2mil to tell him what consumers want in an app.He forwarded the resulting 60 slide presentation to the programming team and told them to make something exactly as described. Any dissenting opinions were remvoved from the team as they were not team players.After destroying the morale of his programmers and creating a worthless monstrosity, the manager then got the marketing department to put together a snazzy presentation and presented his successful Skype 2.0 project to the next layer of management. This upper management has of course never used Skype before and simply loved the colorful charts in the PowerPoint.Everyone above ground level thinks that Skype 2.0 is a smashing success.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 04:16:19 pm
content: The linux client for Skype is basically unmaintained.I don't think I will even get it properly installed anymore if I reinstall my computer this autumn. Skype is not in the normal package repositories, and I believe they made some (at first sight) silly change to the client once more.Also, the client has been severely crapified. Incoming calls that I notice on mobile can't be taken on PC. Video doesn't work on iOS. When I close the main window of Skype during an audio conversation the microphone drops. When someone wants to send me a photo I get a link that asks me to sign in on the website, which then doesn't work. And above all, Skype doesn't listen to normal system shutdown commands, thus hanging out till a timeout which takes a few minutes.I only use Skype for calls with family because they have trouble learning new stuff, but if I could drop it today I would have.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 04:23:51 pm
content: Google Hangout is no better. Another moving-target jumbled-mess user interface. Half the time my collaboarator calls me, the audio comes out as chipmunk-speak and we have to re-connect. And web-cams regularly go out of compatibility and then return after a few weeks.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 04:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on August 15, 2017, 11:31:56 pmWhat do you hate about Skype? Is it just the UI? I've never used it before. One of the things which annoys me about Microsoft is, they keep changing the UI for the software on a whim, often taking a step backwards, in terms of speed, intuitiveness and usability. I hate to think how many hours from employers have been lost, as their staff try to figure out how the latest piece of Microsoft software works. I wish they'd keep the UI the same, only changing little bits, when new features are added.

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 05:02:32 pm
content: If this refer to a version from a linux repository (4.x, i think), then yes, it is quite problematic.However, latest beta for linux (5.4.0.1) from their official site is usable, at least chat (have not tested voice call). Some options missing though, as logging conversation history...Edit: Voice call works fine. I do not have web camera to test video as well.All in all, beta is at least usable and UI looks good enough.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 06:57:08 pm
content: QuoteIt started with not letting me log in until I added a "rela name" etc.Then the skype account became a "microsoft account".Then Skype can't connect (check you internet connection) numerous youtube videos on how to "fix it", haven't tried all the methods yet.All I need is the basic skype functionality but it seems all skype users have fallen victims to the Malakosoft marketing machine.The software changed/got crippled/broken/discontinued/unsupported to accomodate Satan's needs. Not mine.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 07:43:48 pm
content: "One of the things which annoys me about Microsoft is, they keep changing the UI for the software on a whim, often taking a step backwards, in terms of speed, intuitiveness and usability."Well then, at least that's being consistent with their other products.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 07:50:52 pm
content: We use Circuit, seems to work well but it's not cheap.Slack was highly recommended by a client but I've no direct experience

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 11:54:50 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on August 16, 2017, 07:43:48 pmIt's a similar mentality as supermarkets deliberately moving their stuff around to entice you to you try new things whether you want to or not. The problem is that when all you want to do is to make a frickin' phone call it's astonishingly tiresome and becomes the direct antithesis of a "productivity" tool as you have to hunt and pick trying to find how to do things.This has been happening for some time though. It's not uncommon to prepare for a conference call at 10:00 only to find the f***ing thing needs to spend five minutes updating plus a reboot, meantime you miss the beginning of the call, or worse, everyone else has already hung up waiting for you.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 12:15:53 am
content: Quote from: 691175002 on August 16, 2017, 02:12:19 pmAnd then, that manager is promoted to a trendy European subsidiary.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 03:08:08 am
content: Just got caught by the update last night (had wifi on and charging, which meant auto update went through), I agree on the unicorn farts description, you can see all the tapeworms dancing.Equally on the microsoft forums, people with similar opinions have been told that in a few months, any pre V8 versions will be force disconnected and told to update. as they wish to ensure "software uniformity"This to me is like when dropbox killed XP, A tool i liked and recommended, took a hard sharp turn to something that i hate, as now i am invested in using it,

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 06:44:19 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 16, 2017, 12:18:45 pmSeventy thousand concurrent connections (out of a total user base of 150,000) and twenty thousand of those with enterprise voice going well here thanks.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 06:46:47 am
content: Quote from: Ash on August 16, 2017, 12:01:42 pmYou don't need PSTN breakout to make calls between Skype and Skype for Business.It's also very easy to set up SfB to work with Skype once the edge servers are running properly for federation.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 07:08:43 am
content: We just moved to zoom. Person to person is free, group conferences are free up to 40 minutes. Then it ads up...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 08:21:58 am
content: KEBKAC? The ads are annoying, but whatever.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 08:35:46 am
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on August 17, 2017, 06:44:19 amMy current outfit is merely 375 people which means we have more power to effect change. Larger enterprises tend to have different parameters to define success as the IT teams steamroll projects through based on specification sheets and marketing. The metrics to define success are always tailed for capital expenditure rather than operational expenditure, the latter of which can be feasibly distributed across other business concerns my immeasurable friction. I bet if you polled them, you will find what the organisation defines as success metric, the users don't. The users are the business.This observation comes from 20 years' experience dealing with companies of similar size to yours in the defence and finance sectors.Avaya's platform has a better TCO on a company that size.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 02:29:44 pm
content: Almost 20000 people work at our site, around 10000 just on my campus. They took all our office phones away from us a couple of years ago and gave each of us a Jabra USB headset to plug into our laptop (or desktop) computer. Using Lync (now Skype for Business) as our "office phone". I believe they did the same at most of the other sites, at least the ones in North America.At least from my perspective it has resulted in a much lower phone call volume because it is so fiddly (unless you are on the phone all the time). More IM and email, etc. which is fine with me. Only recently (with some stealth background "update") did my laptop start "ringing" through the speakers. Before that, you had to be wearing the headset to hear the "phone ring". And if you get a call during one of the enforced "work pace break" periods, the computer is locked up so you can't answer the call. Sigh. Oh well, I guess it wasn't important or they would have sent an email.OTOH, you can place and receive calls from anywhere you are, as long as you have internet connectivity. And many people travel a lot and don't even have fixed offices (cubicles) anymore. So perhaps better for them. The conference rooms still have wired (but IP) fancy speaker phones, and there are even some vintage wall phones in places. So they must still have a few old-school phone switches.Several years before that, they integrated the voice-mail system into Windows Exchange so messages arrive in email. For a while they even had auto voice-recognition so that you got voice-mail as text email. But with all the different languages spoken around here (and the thick accents non-native speakers have) there were some pretty amusing errors in voice-recognition, so they abandoned it. But from my perspective it was reasonably good and I was sorry they shut it off.They also integrated Microsoft's notion of meeting scheduling into Exchange and it has been a long series of cobbled-together kludges which have never equaled the VAX-based system we had 30 years ago. Apparently Microsoft has no conference rooms (people have large enough hard-wall offices that they just meet in somebody's office) so the conference-room scheduling is only now (after 20 years) becoming usable.The dark side of "progress" here in the 21st century.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 03:08:31 pm
content: Thanks to Microsoft "always making improvements, such as enhanced quality, better reliability, and improved security" and because they "want everyone to experience the best Skype has to offer" Skype no longer works on Windows Phone 8.1 and many other devices.Link to Microsoft telling users how stopping Skype working for them is to their benefithttps://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA34763/which-skype-enabled-devices-or-platforms-are-no-longer-supportedA windows phone had been ideal for my parents due to a combination of cost, familiar UI (not that tech literate) and the few apps they used actually existed for winphone.Support was pulled with zero contact from Microsoft/Skype even though their accounts contained their email details and Skype could have sent a Skype Message but instead my parents tried to use Skype one day and got a generic network connection error message and I only found out for them after googling. Guess what score I give Microsoft out of 10 for customer satisfaction?Time to get them a couple of android phones.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 06:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 17, 2017, 08:35:46 amActually, we determine success by clear and meaningful metrics such as the continuous month on month increase in total calls, conferencing minutes, etc., etc. plus a constant demand for more EV numbers.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 06:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on August 17, 2017, 02:29:44 pmI'd say making calls is actually easier than ever. You can call directly from an email, an entry in SharePoint, a mention in MS Teams, etc. No need to look up a phone number. Even for your external contacts.Check out the Surface Hubs for good conference room experience.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 11:35:53 pm
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on August 17, 2017, 06:23:32 pmYes, MAKING calls is probably easier. But RECEIVING calls is much more fiddly. Until a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't even hear the "phone ring" unless I was wearing the headset. Then I have to dig out the headset and put it on, and swing the mic boom down (because it is in the way when I'm not on the phone. Then I have to try to find the little pop-up message and click it to connect.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 11:45:44 pm
content: Not just lync/skype, have you had to use Word/Excel/Visual Studio/Sql server management studio. I find a bug in each nearly every day.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2017, 11:53:50 pm
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on August 17, 2017, 06:18:39 pm

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 01:55:58 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on August 17, 2017, 11:53:50 pmWhat's your problem with that approach?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 04:12:12 am
content: My problem is not seeing how those metrics relate to a business model.I may have missed something - but what sort of business makes those metrics relevant?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 04:14:30 am
content: Quote from: 691175002 on August 16, 2017, 02:12:19 pm... I've heard that song before.More than once.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 07:27:19 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on August 18, 2017, 04:12:12 amThis was a big QED for my original point. The metrics are IT delivery derived, not business derived.Another broken company I'll be dragged in to fix one day though... reckon I'll get myself a nice new Keysight supply afterwards

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 07:47:54 am
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on August 18, 2017, 01:55:58 amI was reading it like this:A guy is coming from outside. He is entering the room, and start complaining about the weather:- Man, it's a shitty weather outside, it just started to rain!- The weather is fine. Actually, we have here a very accurate Weather App that shows the today temperature is even bigger than yesterday.- Dude, it might be hotter, I don't know, and I don't know if hotter is better or worst for the long run, but I tell you:it just started to rain, it's windy and dusty and shitty. Look at the window!- Sorry, we don't care how the weather actually feels to you. The metrics shows that last year there were 7 billion people, so 7 billion weather users. This year there are 7.7 billion people living under the weather's sky, so a 10% YoY increase.The weather must be greater than ever.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 07:59:25 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on August 18, 2017, 07:47:54 amSimple then. You read it totally wrong.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:59:39 am
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on August 18, 2017, 07:59:25 amSimple for me - I've just stopped using Skype. It is inconvenient not to use is (and I am investigating alternatives) but not as inconvenient as the feeling I get when I try to use the updated version... .CheersAlex

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 09:25:59 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 18, 2017, 07:27:19 amUnless the revenue to the business isdirectlyattributable to IT delivery, this is a problem.It's like looking a tachometer and saying how well you're going, when it's the speedometer and odometer that are actually showing important information.QuoteIf the wrong metrics are being used, then that probability will go up.Another risk is that once metrics are established - and linked to benefits or penalties - expect people to exploit any opportunities they discover to skew the metrics in their favour. In such cases, even well founded metrics will quickly lose relevance. As critical as this corruption would be, there is an impediment in noticing this. Many will lean on the metrics as being "the" guide and to question them risks the wrath of higher management.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 09:29:14 am
content: Appropriate Dilbert:

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 12:44:43 pm
content: Tail wagging the dog has regrettably been a recurring mentality beloved of management consultancies for about a decade plus. Since they outsourced most of businesses' business already, they have to justify themselves in another way now.IDO - Insight Driven Organisation - seems to be the latest mantra, where everyone's driven by numbers coming out of data warehouses. Even AI, the decades old technology that's yet to have much impact outside of academia, is now regularly appropriated and slipped into your average MBA's lexicon. I guess IoT has lost some ground as a result, so we should be thankful for small mercies.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 12:53:36 pm
content: Sad but true.My current gig's CXO level team is somewhat more clued than the average so I'm grateful there. They can get another renewal this yearI asked our CTO earlier if we would reconsider skype and his exact words were: "I hope you are fucking joking?" ... fortunately I was

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 03:08:44 pm
content: Bullseye!Quote from: bd139 on August 18, 2017, 09:29:14 am... and there are going to be people in "Management" that will need to have that explained to them.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 06:07:03 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert_principle"The Dilbert principle refers to a 1990s theory by Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams stating that companies tend to systematically promote their least-competent employees to management (generally middle management), in order to limit the amount of damage they are capable of doing."

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:30:46 pm
content: Quote...and with the new version os skype attempting /trying/forcing the merging of a skype account into a "microsoft account", it must have caused some sort of uptick in the number of "microsoft accounts".Therefore in "improvement".

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 09:08:07 pm
content: I have a skype pro subscription, have had since it was first available. I don't get any adds and every thing seems to work fine except the "skype homepage is unavailable at present" and has been for the last year but that does not seem a problem I can log in adjust setting etc still, not even sure what the home page is.