USB-C connector which supports VBUS and the two data pins? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 03:48:31 pm
content: I've been reading about this and it is amazingly complicated. So many different versions. Also thishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/type-c-in-micro-usb-footprint-(female-connectors)/I am looking at USB-C only because the connector can be found with through-hole lugs and is stronger than micro-USB.Ignorantly, I got some of these:https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/538-217175-0001whose DS shows thisBut I now suspect this is no good and may be usable for power only. I have this from an ESP32 dev board which shows 10 pinsand a C319148 is this:https://www.lcsc.com/datasheet/lcsc_datasheet_2409141623_XKB-Connection-U262-161N-4BVC11_C319148.pdfwhich has loads of pins, on a 0.5mm spacing.Is the Mouser 6-pin one no good? It looks for data one needs A7 B7 A6 B6. It does look like one needs the C319148 after all. It is very cheap.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 04:30:19 pm
content: Correct, those 6 pins only get you power. There are 10/12-pin USB C connectors that will work for what you want. Those will have the same 6 pins as your existing connector, as well as the two pairs of D+/D- pins (two because of the reversibility of the connector, they just get tied together external to the connector), and often SBU1/2 as well. You need the CC pins and their attendant resistors to allow a USB C host port to detect the device, so the minimum for a proper USB2 power and data connection is 10 pins on most connectors -- 2x Vbus, 2x Gnd, 2x D+. 2x D-, and CC1/CC2 (there might be some connectors with the duplicated signals bonded internally to allow fewer external pins, but those are unusual as far as I've seen).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2024, 08:26:13 pm
content: Yes 10/12 pin as discussed often:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/hobbyist-soldering-of-usb-c-connectors/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/usb-c/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/usb-c-connector-question/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/are-there-6-pin-usb-c-sockets-with-d-d-lines-instead-of-cc1-and-cc2/Lots on LCSC.Says 16P but you can see there are a few pins joined together.

author: robzy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 02:09:55 am
content: For what its worth, when I had this issue recently I went with C2988369 / GT-USB-7010ASV.LCSC had a bunch of them in stock, and KiCad already had a footprint for it.It still has only 0.5mm pin spacing, unfortunately, but I used JLCPCB's assembly service to do it for me.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 02:19:14 am
content: To make it work with any USB-C charger, the CC pin is required at a minimum.If there is no proper resistor on the CC pin, the USB-C charger (not USB-A) will not work because it detects the pull-down resistor hanging on the CC pin and turns the charger's VBUS output on and off.This is not a major problem when using older USB-A type chargers with USB-AtoC cables, since VBUS is always supplied with 5V.Because of the complexity of the USB-C power standard, it is common for various products to forget the CC pin resistor and not be able to charge with USB-C chargers.

author: robzy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 03:14:46 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on September 20, 2024, 02:19:14 amDoes that mean USB-C to micro-USB-B connectors have inbuilt CC resistors?PS there is this option which looks hand solderable, but its in the vertical orientation:https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_Hanbo-Electronic-MC-802YC-H105_C3039301.htmlAnd some USB-C connectors with an 0.8mm pin pitch:https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_G-Switch-G-Switch-GT-USB-7100A_C7469646.htmlhttps://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_G-Switch-G-Switch-GT-USB-7101A_C7469647.html

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 05:40:10 am
content: The C2988369 looks perfect. It has proper through-hole lugs. Anything that is all-surface will get ripped off unless the product casing pushed tightly against the connector outline and then you have a lot of injection moulding tooling investment tied to a specific USB connector.I am just amazed that anybody makes a USB-C connector that supports only power but yeah I have several of these around. OTOH all of them are high volume consumer things.The other funny thing is how the chinese connectors are about 10x cheaper than the US-brand ones like Molex or AmphenolDoes anybody buy the latter? Same question with Wurth... who on earth buys those?When searching on LCSC I got more than 500 selected products so had to select "gold" to narrow it down to about 30 and most of them were still crazy cheap like 3p.

author: robzy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 06:12:16 am
content: Quote from: peter-h on September 20, 2024, 05:40:10 amIt's used instead ofa barrel jack, or another power-only plug. It's a testament to the benefits of USB-PD. Why use a barrel jack, or any other power-only plug, when USB-C is so ubiquitous?Quote from: peter-h on September 20, 2024, 05:40:10 amManufacturers that need consistency and reliability. Most products on AliExpress, for example, do not live up to this standard.Quote from: peter-h on September 20, 2024, 05:40:10 amIt's messy, but I quite like this interface:https://yaqwsx.github.io/jlcparts/#/

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 06:44:47 am
content: QuoteI reckon the Wurth etc stuff is still made in China. It won't be made in Germany. Wurth then jack the price up 10x.And with a 2p connector you could buy 100k of them, £2000, which is perhaps 1/10 of the injection moulding tooling, and 10 years later when the product is dead, throw out the remaining 90kI don't think the Western products offer any special guarantee against product changes.Yes; I use JLCPCB also.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 09:45:07 am
content: I reckon there is a mistake in the PCB layout in this posthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/usb-c/msg3085327/#msg3085327I wonder if he found outThe one I am using is this onehttps://www.lcsc.com/datasheet/lcsc_datasheet_2409141623_XKB-Connection-U262-161N-4BVC11_C319148.pdf

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 03:36:04 pm
content: I have a problem which I hope someone can help me with. It is really weird.I am changing the PCB of a product from micro-USB to USB-C. And I am prototyping it first.The USB-C connector I am using is this onehttps://www.lcsc.com/datasheet/lcsc_datasheet_2409141623_XKB-Connection-U262-161N-4BVC11_C319148.pdfwhich shows the PCB layout as:Not terribly readable but you can make out the DP1 DP2 and DN1 DN2 pins, by reference to this tableThe above PCB footprint matches others found online e.g.https://forum.kicad.info/t/routing-differential-pairs-on-usb-c-connector/47672So I wired it up and it doesn't work. OK for power but not OK for data.Tracing it through a freshly purchased USB-A to USB-C cable, whose other end is the standardI find that DP1/DP2 on USB-C are connected to D- and DN1/DN2 are connected to D+. IOW P=minus and N=plus.Is that right?The other explanation is that the PCB layout at the very top is an underside view! But I don't see that anywhere else. The connection does work for powering the product but that would work anyway since the four VBUS pins are symmetrical.Wiring diagrams of USB A to USB C cables show that they connect only A6 and A7 in their plug, which is fine since the PCB connector is reversible.Am I going stupid, or have I got a connector whose pins are swapped around? Or the data sheet is wrong?

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 04:03:40 pm
content: You didn't literally follow that table to the letter, right?I mean, it's kind of obvious that the right column pins are all should beBx, not magically becomeAxhalfway...

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 04:19:50 pm
content: I went by the connector PCB footprint.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 04:20:24 pm
content: Always check the PCB thickness USB-C connectors are designed for. Many are for thin PCBs so the legs for the shield that give mechanical stability don't go through the PCB and leave them weak.Found that the hard way.The pins didn't go through the PCB, as it was designed for 1mm PCB not 1.6mm, so it just lifted out when a cable was plugged in. Ended up manually adding additional solder to the connectors to beef them up a bit. Then found a connector suitable for the thickness of the PCB.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 06:48:37 pm
content: I think I've worked it out ... hmmm a bit embarrassing

author: PCB.Wiz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 07:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on October 07, 2024, 04:20:24 pmWhich connector did you settle on ?1.2mm stakes are a common 'long' size but I did find some rarer variantsThis has 2mm stakeshttps://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_XUNPU-TYPEC-304J-BCP16_C2835315.htmland this is thru hole two rows, with waisted stakeshttps://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/USB-Connectors_XUNPU-TYPEC-306DDW-ARP16_C2840393.htmlOf course, 'rare' variants cost more...

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 08:36:40 pm
content: The LCSC one above. It is very cheap and very nicely made. I just bought a reel of 1000.0.5mm pin pitch and I can tell you a right bastard to hand solder. It is easy enough to solder 0.5mm IC pitch (hot air reflow, etc) but in this case attaching wires to the connector is something else...These connectors also need a vapour reflow oven; IR is not enough for reliable production. Especially if you want the body to solder itself to PCB pads (which in turn need vias in them, otherwise they will have no peel strength, but the vias suck away heat). I am going to USB-C because of the solder lugs, and yes they need hand soldering, but then so do other things like RJ45s, connectors, etc.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 08:51:20 pm
content: Quote from: PCB.Wiz on October 07, 2024, 07:52:14 pmI went with a Wurth part, 632723300011, not horrendously expensive when bought direct, though expensive compared to LCSC. Also ticked the required certification boxes for the application.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 08:59:55 pm
content: QuoteCould you say what these were?QuoteYes I went for the 1.2mm one, and my PCB is 1.6mm, but it is easy enough to solder from above, or indeed from below by "flooding" the hole with solder. I think it would take a gorilla to break this one off the PCB, whereas micro-USB are much more fragile unless again you go for unusual variants.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 09:40:51 pm
content: It will be one, or more, of the ones listed. Probably UL and the temperature range.It was for a bespoke add-on for a bit of avionics, for ground use only. Production isn't going to be large, so shaving cost isn't a huge issue. However, reliability is important. So easy to go with a traceable part.Parts from Wurth can be surprisingly cheap when bought direct.