Brand New, Looking for Info on Building a Home Lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: cyberphine
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 02:37:59 am
content: I've read similar posts, so trying to fill in some details. I don't really have a really good understanding of everything quite yet. My immediate goal is to build out a small 8 bit computer on breadboards. I've run across a youtube channel from Ben Eater that has me hooked. I'm new enough to not understand all of the various controls of a DMM yet. I *may* want to eventually build a small operating system for it. I have a CS background and I .... vaguely... remember things in physics class from a while back.So that's my experience and goals.I own:EEVBlog BM235INNOVA 3320Fluke 322Hakko Soldering StationA few "Hacker Boxes" for fun.The 555 module from the ben eater site.Various parts/wires/resistors/etc..With the ben eater kit it provided a 5v 2A DC power block from Jameco. It connects to some sort of "adapter" named "Flower".The two things that I may, or may not be in the market for, pending conversations are:Bench Power SupplyOscilliscopeLogic AnalyzerBudget is sort of flexible. < 1K, although I'd a lot happier around $500.So..#1 Would this be what you would buy if you had these goals?#2 What would the priority be?#3 Recommendations?Thanks in advance!

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 06:59:42 am
content: Welcome. You are on a good path.Korad KA3005PRigol 1054Z or one of its Siglent competitorseBay Logic Analyzer that works with Sigrok PulseViewIf you don’t have a second DMM add an Aneng AN8008 so you can measure current and voltage at the same time.Should be all doable for close to your $500 budget.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 07:03:53 am
content: Save some of your second $500 for a Siglent generator.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 10:23:57 am
content: Normally I would not recommend this. Mainly because I prefer an oscilloscope with knobs instead of PC based products. (Just me.)However, until you get more experience under your belt, I think theAnalog Discovery 2would meet all your requirements for some time. Plus theBNC Adapter.DigilentAnalog Discovery 2 Pro Bundle$280 saleIt will do want you want for low voltage CPU development. Oscilloscope, Logic analyzer, Low current power supply, Protocol analyzer, Pattern generation, DMM, Function generator.Although your interest is in building a 8-bit CPU, I think you would get more out of say a 8-bit PIC or an Arduino Uno.I would recommend the PIC and program it in C with MPLAB X and XC8 compiler. You would need to buy a PICKit 3 programmer with that.Doing so, you would be directly programming the hardware registers and seeing the results in hardware. With the Arduino, you are a step removed from the hardware and it's not as transparent as to what actually occurs. Then, it is only a few steps to doing serial protocols (SPI, I2C, UART to name a few). Afterward, A/D and D/A conversion, timers and interrupts.With a CS background, you will have a hard time building a 8-bit CPU from scratch. With a small 8-bit MCU as I mentioned, you will learn just as much and not get frustrated with hardware issues.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 04:57:32 pm
content: I played around with the Ben Eater project but I never did quite finish it. I built up a pretty nice EEPROM programmer on a real PCB - works well.It's a good project but, other than getting a bit of experience with TTL and logic design, it doesn't really lead anywhere. OTOH, it's kind of fun.I like hardware design so I have gravitated toward FPGAs where I can build all the CPUs I can dream up. There is a great project on the Internet known as LC3 (and now LC3b with byte wide operations) and this project comes with an assembler and C compiler as well as the start of an operating system. It wouldn't be a stretch to add a Compact Flash disk drive (I like CF a lot more than SD) and write an OS like CP/M. Some kind of non-realtime single user system.For any of these digital projects, a logic analyzer is pretty useful. OTOH it might not be a useful for FPGAs because there may not be enough pins brought out to accomodate the signals of interest. There is a tendency lately to bring out some minimal number of pins onto mostly useless headers like PMOD. Those boards with Arduino headers may be more useful.No worries, the modern Xilinx chips (Artix 7 and up) work with the newer Vivado toolchain and it includes an Internal Logic Analyzer (ILA) that give the PC access to internal signals. Lots of them!I tend to want development boards with lots of switches, 7 segment displays, LEDs, buttons, etc. I use these along with single stepping to do most of my debugging. The Digilent Nexys A7 is my favorite at the moment:https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-a7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-ece-curriculum/The Arty boards are somewhat useful but they don't have any of the switches, knobs or dials.Logic analyzers are cheap and a good scope will be pretty useful. The DS1054Z is pretty sweet but the Siglent SDS1104X-E is a strong contender. In my view, 4 channels is required.Writing HDL for an FPGA seems a lot like writing code and this traps a lot of CS types. Everything in an FPGA happens concurrently - everything! The HDL may read from top to bottom but that's not the way it executes.

author: phlegeton
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 06:12:23 pm
content: I also build the Ben Eater 8 bits CPU. And it is fully working . From my experience: If you follow the whole video series, you won't need a complex device like a Logic Analyzer. However it is a cool piece of equipment to have.(Not talking about USB L.A's here, but the real beasts) A L.A is a study on it's own. ( I do own 2 HP L.A's and know how complex it can be to setup a trigger(s). But then again.. once you're on the path of buying and owning cool lab devices... you may start reading the TEA threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/That being said, a good DMM is a must have especially a good continuity tester. A scope can be handy. Having the possibility looking at the different digital signals, and poking around in a very complex digital circuit like the 8 bit CPU is a good learning experience. But if you want to buy a scope the Rigol DS1054Z is a good option. Also having an analog scope in your arsenal can be handy.

author: cyberphine
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 12, 2019, 02:18:58 am
content: I appreciate everyone's input. The 8bit board does seem like a toy (non-useful, sort of) but it's the learning experience I'm after. I do enjoy playing around with various low electricity things and I've looked into FPGAs.Oofff, ok I spent the money on the Rigol 1054Zand Korad KA3005P. I really did like the Analog Discovery 2, and I probably will have to "grow into" the Rigol. That said, I can also resell on ebay. Evidently you can recoup money pretty easily, because I tried to find a used one, and they don't exist.Thanks for everyone's input.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2019, 02:57:11 am
content: Quote from: cyberphine on May 12, 2019, 02:18:58 amI don't think you will be disappointed with the Rigol. I have one myself.You can also hack it to 100 MHz bandwidth and all options with the keygen toolhttp://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/Make sure to clear the "serial number" field before entering yours and the Option to use is DSER.DO NOT USE 'DSFR'.The scope does not support the 500uV option. The Private Key should populate itself.