anyone know of a metal conduit that can be installed over existing wiring ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:11:20 pm
content: like a split conduit that can be snapped or screwed shut. ( like a u-shaped conduit with lid )i have Squirrels in my attic and they have been eating the wiring. HVAC controls, coax, ethernet cable, power lines. they eat everything.The damage is extensive. half the house is without power as they caused a short in a feeder. I'm faced with several thousand dollars in repairs.I want that cable in steel conduits.Is there any kind of conduit that can be installed over existing wiring so i can protect the undamaged wire runs.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:21:23 pm
content: While not the most orthodox of uses for it, raceway for power/phone lines when surface mounting them could be put in. Some not as aesthetically pleasing may be cheaper. I think the stuff that can also double as a large junction box is called "Wireway." Wiremold is a big manufacturer, but their website isnt particularly helpful.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:32:17 pm
content: it doesnt have to be aestetical. it's in the attic. nobody sees it. as long as it keeps the squirrels out i'm ok.someone suggested getting simple wire mesh and simply make a 'tunnel' around the existing wiring. that would keep them out.i may do that. that way i can leave the undamaged wire and simply tack down a u shaped tunnel.damn vermin.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:33:26 pm
content: Square & rectangular steel conduit/trunking is common here in the UK.This sort of thinghttp://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-trunkings/0614154/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:43:31 pm
content: Any ordinary steel trunking, as above, or simple steel capping:https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SC2.htmlThis stuff is surely available over there with some looking.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:49:54 pm
content: Similar to Mike's suggestion, as a leco I use it all the time. Unistrut, you can build just about anything with itChannelLid

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:53:17 pm
content: Not cheaper to fix the hole in the long run?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 11:40:05 pm
content: They (the squirrels) will chew their way back in, unless you cover everything with hardware cloth. Once they have made a nest somewhere they always go back.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 11:47:03 pm
content: Yeah the holes have been fixed three times, they keep eating new ones !The problem is roof rats. They eat the initial hole and then squirrels get in.Damn HOA hasn't been putting out bait for rats for 3 years. They are paying for it. But i want a long term solution. I cannot understand why wires are just run in the walls in the US. That is sheer stupidity. In europe such a thing is unthinkable. it's either plastic or metal conduit. Especially since homes here are built out of wood.it's a friggin fire hazard.Half my home is without power, including my lab. The short circuit trips the breaker to that section of the home.I can live not having light in my hallway. i cannot live having no power in my lab !Best way would be to replace all wiring int he attic with aluminum clad reinforced flex. I could do that myself. the wire costs next to nothing.but i am not a licensed electrician and the HOA won't let me do it. They also won't pay for having all of it replaced, just the damaged sections.if it was up to me i would cut the existing wires where they come out of the woodwork , put a metal junction box over em and string reinforced wires. material cost is like a few hundred $. no problomo. Paying someone to do it is multiple thousands of $ ...So i will have an electrician do the fix as per HOA and then install reinforcement over it myself. So i need something i can install without having to cut existing wires.Right now that mesh seems to be the best solution. it's cheap , i can bend it and shape it in a tunnel and simply screw it down in the woodwork ( the cables are nailed down onto the plywood )Fortunately all wires are visible. ( no wires running under non-accessible area's)

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 12:07:01 am
content: I have a small rat terrier. They aren't cheap or that easy to live with (they like to do whattheywant) but I no longer have issues with roof rats or squirrels.

author: gfiber
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 02:38:21 am
content: I install surveillance equipment on poles. There is a 40 inch safety zone I have to observe between the comms lines and power secondary where I am not allowed to run 110 or 220 VAC. What I do is cut some plastic conduit in half and attach it to the pole in that area so I can run my AC power through the safety zone and not worry about the cable or telephone guy's getting into power they do not expect to be there. OSHA 1910.269 requires me to do that. Something like that might work in your attic too.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 02:43:42 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 28, 2015, 10:11:20 pmYou'll get no sympathy from us if you installed electronic squirrel feeders in your home and are now overrun with squirrels

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 03:56:56 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 01, 2015, 02:43:42 amhahaaaaa. . no a 'feeder' is the run of cable from the fusebox to the first junction box. it 'feeds' a section of the house.the plastic conduit is not a bad idea. i could run it through a circular saw to create a 'slit' lengthwise. simple slide it over the existing wiring. and then screw it down.all i would have to do is take the tacks out of the wood to lift the cable and put the clamps in there. i may go that way. plastic conduit costs next to nothing.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 04:09:08 am
content: Have you tried some sort of paint based animal repellent ?You can get stuff which is so bitter nothing can enjoy eating itAbout 15 years ago dad found some old electrolytic caps in the basement with sections of missing plastic where rats had chewed it off.mm... electrolytic cap

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 04:39:47 am
content: I do sympathize.My problem was rats, and the location. Unfortunately bait (poison) was the only solution. I ended up with (3) cameras on the bait stations. I have one bait left and it will stay there with a camera on it for piece of mind. For me no sign of the little buggers for about 7 months. Took more than 5 years to deal with, they really do like electrical wires.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:16:05 am
content: I woudn't use steel conduit, it's hard to work with, has sharp edges, needs to be glanded, needs to be earthed.Here in Australia at least one person I have heard of has been electrocuted due to a live steel conduit.Enclosure in conduit also changes the current carrying capacity of the cable.So much work, so many wires in modern house.What about a physical squirrel and/or rat trap. The ones with a trap door. We use them for possums here. They work really well.Quote from: free_electron on February 28, 2015, 11:47:03 pmNot sure why conduit in walls is a good idea. It is certainly a lot harder to do. PVC enclosed cables would actually get hotter.You need to install a webcam with PTZ so we can help detect your squirrels.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:39:39 am
content: Standard US wiring is "haphazard run of bare cable" While here in SA, with brick walls, it is also the same, but we only have the rats. Taking some PVC conduit and sleeving the existing cabling will work, along with painting the attic area where they run with this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatoniumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_repellentSo either look for a supply of fox urine, or buy 10g of Bitrex and mix in 5l of PVA paint then do all the wiring with it, along with the areas where the rats eat in and the access ways.If you have some left over paint the HOA door with it as well.Please note at this concentration you will need to wear a full respirator and a full body disposable coverall, as otherwise you will be tasting it for weeks.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:46:26 am
content: Presumably the wires are dangerous to the squirrels. Why not just install more wires?More seriously, denaturing the cables sounds like a better idea as you don't have to go around killing the squirrels. What do they (and the mice) eat through to get in? Do you have a timber-frame ceiling with roof-tiles and they get in under the eaves? Brick or wooden walls? Can they get up in wall cavities from under the house?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:47:28 am
content: I found 1/4 inch galvanized wire mesh worked. When I placed it I would form it into an omega (cross section) with the pointy bits facing out. I'd close in the bottom with another piece when required. That way I had something to nail the mesh down.The pointy bits where to discourage them going under.In my picture above you will see a bunch of sticks with black screws. Brick bait has holes so you can attach it. This is a great indicator, if the stick still has bait no rats. It also encourages them to eat and not store. For roof rats place a bit of shrimp under the bait when you screw it down. That simulates an insect and is fairly attractive. Squirrels will eat bait (they are a rodent). Superwarfarins are far more effective because they are not metabolized as quickly (months instead of days).

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:51:57 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 01, 2015, 05:16:05 amwiring in europe is run through plastic pipes or metal pipes. These are embedded in the walls.we use a special grinder with double grinding discs, spaced an inch apart, to cut a slit in the brick walls. remove the piece between slits , install pipes , joints etc , pull wire. then cement ove rthe pipes so they are embedded in the wall.done.i'd like to meet the first rat that can chew through that. it'll have to have carbide or diamond tipped teeth ...here in the us ? simple plastic coated wires (romex ) just running in free airspace through walls. of course the animals eat that stuff.They could at least have used a steel or aluminum corrugated cladding around the outer insulation. but no.i don't get this. We know ther eis wildlife. we knwo they get inside. why not run electrical wiring in pipes to begin with ?the NEC ( national electric code) needs an update ...

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:59:11 am
content: i was up in the attic installing steel mesh over all the vent opening where we could find damage. As i was working one rat actually tried getting in.There is existing mesh in the vents , but it is screwed down only on one side with the point bits sticking out. The bloody rat grabbed the mesh , hung its weight off of it so the mesh bent, then squirmed its way in.So now i installed steel mesh screening over every hole and it is nailed down all around.still there are area's in the attic we can't inspect for holes as the furnace is in the way. This is a condominium complex. I have an end unit.There is a rat problem in the complex. HOA has been negligent and hasn't had a pest control program for the last three years. they are supposed to have bait stations around the community. they are there, but are empty.It makes me worry how many of my neighbours also have rats in their attic. What if the place burns down ?i am pissed off how such things are possible. Simply running wires in pipe would prevent this kind of misery.Electric pipe costs next to nothing ( 1.5 $ for 10 feet ! ) with 50$ if piping you can do the whole damn attic. That is nothing on the cost of the entire house (700K$)Construction companies should be sued for negligence.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 06:10:25 am
content: I'd bet on all of your neighbors having rats.If the bait stations get reloaded they need to stay that way, always.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 06:28:48 am
content: What I can't understand about American building codes are cars in builtin garages of wooden houses with just a single sheet of plaster board protecting the house from a fire. I say nothing about plugs which can just fall out of their socket...

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 06:33:39 am
content: Quote from: Towger on March 01, 2015, 06:28:48 amIt's all about minimum code, if your lucky.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 07:04:15 am
content: For rats go buy a case or three of Finale wax blocks ( the stuff the bait stations use) and place them around. For the furry tailed rats place them in a feeder coated with some peanut butter ( cheapest one you can get, it really makes no difference if it is going to make them fat) and give them some water to drink. That can be a dish in the attic with the blocks, and next to it a cat water bowl with Finale liquid inside. Works for rats, mice and bats........MDS here, you will have to find it in the USA, probably from Amazon........http://www.bayer.co.za/ebbsc/export/sites/za_internet/en/BMS/MSDS/Finale_Rat_and_Mouse_Wax_Blocks_MSDS_updated_July_2014.pdf

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 07:39:00 am
content: Ultrasonic thingies only work if you have the amplitude high enough that your ears bleed.What to do with them if you shoot them......

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 07:45:43 am
content: i wonder how corrugated flexible tubing would hold up. that looks like a good solution as well.http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-Heavy-Duty-Split-Conduit-Tubing-50-feet-/360508499189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53effb24f5

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 07:48:29 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on March 01, 2015, 07:45:43 amRats love that stuff, they chew it to pieces here. they seem to be attracted to the plasticiser inside the PVC itself.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 04:05:15 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 01, 2015, 07:04:15 amHombre™ Mini Blocks are what I use. Same active ingredient.I can get it from a local hardware store or farm supply (Co-op).Although the camera on the bait stations seems silly it really does help. Rodents are attracted to particular locations and food types. For example I am about 100 meters from a large river. A farmer said to put some salmon skin (dried) in with the bait to get them started. Sure enough they went for it and that group was gone another said fatty bacon, shrimp, peanut butter and so on. I found it very annoying that you could get one group gone and other would happily walk over the bait because it preferred other food. Removing other food sources is good. An insect bomb in the attic is one of the things I did.I really hate these things.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 04:37:05 pm
content: Get the liquid with the active ingredient in it. That is liked as a drink, and they all drink it.

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:05:45 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on March 01, 2015, 05:59:11 amI would be, good chance if the little bastards are getting in.Quote from: free_electron on March 01, 2015, 05:59:11 amLabor would be 2-3x to install, conduit is cheap in comparison. Condos and developments...everything is price driven. The only thing they talk about after the job, is how fast they got it done.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 01, 2015, 04:37:05 pmIn Canada (and probably the US) additives are strictly controlled and require a licensed professional. Would have been nice though.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:54:51 pm
content: I get it from our pest control company as a syrup that you mix to strength with water. Very effective in a roof as they will be thirsty and the sugar in it attracts them. Placed a bowl in a roof and within 3 minutes heard the scrabbling of little feet. It was dry next day, so refilled. Third day it was still there half empty. After a week we smelt drying rat, but that went away after the weekend. we found the dry skins a year later under the water heater.

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:57:23 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 28, 2015, 10:11:20 pmI've seen squirrels chew on the ends of scrap sch-40 PVC, just for the fun of it. Another solution may be to drive them off. A wildlife biologist once told me that they have very sensitive noses, and do not like the smell of pepper spray. She advised me to take an old rag outside, hose it down a bit with pepper spray, then let it air out for a while. When it was down to gently annoying, then stuff it where you want the squirrels not to go. I cannot swear this will stop them, but it seems like the best method I have heard of to date.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 08:44:36 pm
content: Properly installed metal conduit and/or trunking is the only practical solution where rodents are involved. In my experience rodents love plastics.Given your problem as described then trunking is probably the way to go. At least in the UK there is still the option to install electrics oneself provided an accredited electrician checks the installation before it is connected to the supply.It's still expensive but not too extortionate.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 09:09:50 pm
content: I was thinking something along the lines of one of those electric fly swatters from Harbor Freight. Take it apart and use some fine mesh chicken wire to make something they'd have to stand or climb on that would shock them.Maybe get some jumbo marshmallows and inject them with arsenic or other rat poison, or a nice tasty bowl of Prestone.Some commercial rat poisons contain warfarin which is an anti-clotting agent. A few weeks after ingestion the rats tend to die from internal bleeding from their blood vessels leaking.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 11:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on March 01, 2015, 09:09:50 pmI have an electric fen rig and connected it into some of the mesh. It does work but unless you reduce the population they just find another way in. I had holes dug under the footings, through walls and so on.Blood thinners are found in most baits. If the animal has any injury (cut) even a minimal dose will do them in. The problem with the original Warfarin is that it has such a short half life (a few days) in the body. The longer lasting thinners are much more effective.

author: aroby
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 11:23:13 pm
content: The electrical code varies in the US. Here in Chicago and some of the surrounding areas, everything has to be in conduit, or cable armour. I've heard rumours that that's because the unions pressed for it (takes longer to install, so more money for them). Personally, I like it, even though it's a pain to install. I'd hate to have to trace runs of Romex cable, let alone have to pull new cables.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 05:42:35 pm
content: the electrician is coming today. they will replace the damaged runs with MC and metal junction boxes.the undamaged runs will be protected by stapling a 'tunnel' made from zinc coated steel mesh (1/4 inch by 1/4 inch maze ) over the wires.i went and bought a big roll of that stuff. cut it in strips and rolled around a 1 inch diameter water pipe. i'll have a handyman come and install it.the pest control company is here and they found another entry point. they use an uv torch to look for stains ( rats are incontinent and dribble pee continuously )so where it flares up the most is where they get in and out. two days ago we installed mesh wherever we could see light , but there was one concealed one. it makes a dog-leg and you don't really see light, but there was an opening.they also put 10 traps with a bait rats simply can't resist. They will come back next week to inspect the traps. According to them : withing 3 days we should have a trap if they can still get in. Rats are weary of 'new' things. even if it smells good they will shun it for a few days but eventually they can't resist. It's plastic insulation, wood or something tasty ... there is nothing else in the attic.we'll see.Squirrels are out. that is for sure. they could not find any squirrel droppings anymore. they did find rat droppings ( rattus rattus : roof rat )bloody vermin. ' oh but they are so cute' . sure read up on filariasis or hanta and you will think differently ...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 06:43:03 pm
content: Here is what you can do with them....

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:25:46 pm
content: Here's what a terrier does with them.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 08:29:10 pm
content: If there was ever a case for evolution then rat's are it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 12:07:37 am
content: Sort of related....a few years I did some work for a large pest-control company that were investigating new tech for rat & mice elimination.They were working on a plastic trap which, when the rodent entered, it would shut a door behind it, then release a co2 gas cylinder to suffocate it (otherwise it would eat its way out), then send a radio signal.The idea was it would save the time taken for people to come out and check the traps, they could monitor it all remotely.Another benfit was they didn't need any toxic bait, so didn't need to worry about accidentally poisoning anything too big for the trap, or poison getting washed outNot sure if it ever went into production (or the radio-equipped toilet roll holders we did at the same time...)

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 07:29:30 am
content: Not a great movie but:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Unknown_Originhttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086036/

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:20:35 am
content: R.O.U.S.es? I don't think they exist.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:24:23 am
content: The thing about the movie "of unknown origins" was that the rat had 24/7 time to deal with the human, but that's not the case the other way around.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:33:35 am
content: And then there was Ben and Willard.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 09:00:40 pm
content: Since I watched thisI always wanted to be in yours or similar situationfree_electron.Be(e) patience at 2:00 it takes off...QuoteGod bless USA!We all know you will win!