Apple locking down camera replacements - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 06:26:57 am
content: The war continues...https://www.ifixit.com/News/45921/is-this-the-end-of-the-repairable-iphoneNot surprising, but the bastards are trying to be more subtle about it now, so that they can basically brainwash people into thinking that only Apple can make a fully functional repair

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 11:13:38 am
content: It's not that, there's no marketing campaign accompanying it, which would be the case if the 'brainwashing' hypothesis held. It wasn't announced, it was just slipped out and someone noticed it in the field. It's no secret that Apple are rabidly anti 'right to repair', it's probably their worst quality. But so are many other manufacturers, it's just that the average mouthy tech blogger doesn't have a John Deere tractor so we don't hear about it. At least Apple, unlike John Deere, don't try to claim ownership of your own data and sell it back to you.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 am
content: My guess is this isn't so much as deliberate but some of the 'bokeh' and zoom functions (where multiple sensors are 'fused' together) require calibration data that is stored on the phone. If the SN# of the calibration data doesn't match the camera app just gets confused.I work for an imaging company and the sensors on our devices are closely calibrated to the camera in the factory. That calibration data (non-uniformity correction, hot/cold pixels etc) is stored in the camera's flash memory and read out on boot up. While we don't check serial numbers match, if you put the wrong sensor on the wrong motherboard then you will get a horrible, uncorrected image.There is a simple fix to this problem that Apple should implement. If a phone does not have camera calibration data for SN #xxx then it should download it from the mothership. These cameras will all be from recycled phones so there is no excuse to not have that data available. Right to Repair should require companies like Apple to make cost-effective repairs of these devices possible, and to sell the replacement parts, WITH the necessary calibration data.I also suspect Apple is in a bind with things like Touch and Face ID. The security of these systems (payment processing up to £10,000, unlock and authorise remote starts of cars, etc.) is such that the devices must be absolutely certain that they have not been tampered with. That is why iDevices ask for a passcode on reboot, in case the touch sensor has been modified in the meantime with a MITM attack for instance. If you let people change these parts they could be modified parts that could e.g. store fingerprint data rather than passing it transparently to the crypto processor on the main board.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 06:21:01 pm
content: Until the idiots buy this phone, At some point even cases will stop the phone the work, The simple solution refuse to buy

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 06:34:17 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on November 01, 2020, 06:21:01 pmErm, yes. No. Maybe. Sunday? Custard pies? The count of Montecristo? Ishmael, yes that's it, Ishmael!

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 10:41:08 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 amSurely the comms between the fingerprint sensor and CPU are already encrypted ... with a random nonce or other method to defeat replay attacks ...More likely the reason you can't just replace such a sensor is that each one has a different key. But like you said, this could be retrieved online (if Apple cared about the right to repair).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 11:09:25 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 amThe anti-Apple crowd will never accept as mundane an explanation as "technical necessity" when there are consumer-hostile conspiracies to be believed instead…

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2020, 11:19:36 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 amImage quality variance is different from subtle random freezes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 07:05:39 am
content: Uhhhh... what? No, individual image sensors have individual pixel variation.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 07:33:26 am
content: At the end of the day, who really cares? How many times have you had to replace the camera on your phone? I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if a faulty camera caused the phone not to boot or something ridiculous like that.If an internal component fails that isn't "consumable" like the battery or LCD, send it back the manufacturer. I had the 4G radio fail on my Samsung after a few years of use and they swapped out the board, no questions asked, for free.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 07:42:32 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on November 01, 2020, 06:21:01 pmI think it is not random if the word "i"diot start with the letter i.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 07:51:12 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 01, 2020, 11:53:44 amWell yes of course there is."To guarantee the best possible user experience only Authorized Apple Service Providers with Apple Certified Macintosh Technicians are able to calibrate the camera to provide the amazing image quality you are used to".They already did this for the screens and their fancy True Tone.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 04:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 02, 2020, 07:33:26 amThe iSight camera on my 2015 iPhone 6S failed with an unstable, constantly wobbling image. Unfortunately, while Apple had a recall out for this being a known failure, the recall scheme ended a year after the fault developed on my phone. I researched swapping it, but with other problems on the phone (defective microphone for Siri/background noise cancellation, and a worn battery) I decided it was not worthwhile changing all of those parts on an old phone. I keep it as a spare, though.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 06:42:59 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 02, 2020, 04:51:05 pmOh, I don't doubt it. I have my thoughts on Apple's build "quality", but that's another issue. A faulty/swapped camera shouldn't stop the phone from working. If it just impacts the camera part, then *shrug*, send it back to the manufacturer for a replacement (paid or warranty job). If you choose to buy Apple products, well... that's on you. ;-)

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 09:51:49 pm
content: What I hate is the fact that the sheeple will continue to flock over the Apple no matter what insane crap they pull off. They could not care less about the environment or repairability. "Oh I'll just buy another one if it breaks" after spending over a grand on a phone.Also I don't get why they are already releasing a new phone, didn't the 11 like just come out less than a year ago?The entire phone ecosystem, android included, is a huge mess though. They are basically designed to be thrown out after only 5 years. In the case of Android, they stop issuing security updates after a short while. Even if you get regular updates, for whatever reason they chose to make it so security updates come from the vendor instead of from the play store, so the vendor will usually stop issuing them after a short while. It's a huge mess.My phone got hacked a while back and that's when I found out I have not been getting security updates for like 2 years. I assumed that as long as I'm getting updates through the play store that those are fixing security issues too.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 10:25:37 pm
content: I have an iPhone because I got sick and tired of constant software bugs with Android devices.My "new" (2020 generation) iPhone SE cost me fairly little second hand as flagship phones go, but the software is stable, Siri works well, battery life is excellent (2+ days with my usage profile.) Maybe I can be tempted away from the walled Apple garden, but I don't want much from a phone. I don't care that it's customisable, I'm past that, it needs to work, be fast, and be easy to use. Repairability of most flagship phones is similar now (they all have glued screens, glued batteries, locked software) so I don't see how that makes that much difference. I'm guaranteed security/software updates for at least 6 years (my older iPhone was still getting security updates.) Also, I trust Apple far more with my privacy than Google, as Apple do actually respect it, by design.Sure, Apple is shit in a lot of ways, but it's not just sheeple buying them.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 10:59:59 pm
content: I long for the old days where a phone was just a phone... I don't like using small displays so I rarely use any capabilities other than texting.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 11:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 02, 2020, 10:25:37 pmExactly this.Also if you aggregate the sale price of a £1000 unit, which is usually the price point I buy at you have to consider the total cost of ownership. This is 23 GBP a month (fucking bargain!) for the handset even if you replace it every 24 months when the AppleCare runs out. And you mitigate all risks other than it getting stolen which is probably covered by your household insurance unless you're an idiot.What I can't understand is why people whine about the up front cost of a device rather than the utility versus total cost of ownership tradeoff.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 11:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 02, 2020, 10:25:37 pmFrankly, I don’t even believe this mythical “sheeple” exists. Real people choose products for real reasons. What puzzles me is why people who have different priorities can’t accept that everyone’s priorities aren’t the same as theirs, and dismiss as brainwashed “sheeple” people who actually made the decision because of sound reasons (just reasons the dismissers don’t understand or particularly care about).Quote from: Red Squirrel on November 02, 2020, 09:51:49 pmSee above about the ignorant “sheeple” comment.Apple cares more about the environment than any other major electronics manufacturer. No others do nearly as much in that regard. Is there more to do? Always. But choosing another brand for this reason is completely backward.No, the iPhone 11 was released in September of 2019, right on the usual annual schedule.Besides, why do you care? It’s not as though most iPhone 11 owners are gonna run and upgrade, and their upgrading wouldn’t affect you anyway. Most people keep their phones several years, something Apple encourages throughverylong OS support cycles on iPhones. The 6S I only just replaced with the new SE (because of needing multiple repairs sooner than I could get parts, thanks corona...) originally shipped with iOS 9, and still runs the current iOS 14, and with perfectly usable performance, not particularly slow even compared to the new SE. That’s 5 OS upgradesexcludingits original OS! No Android phone hasevergotten 5 years of updates.Quote from: bd139 on November 02, 2020, 11:05:57 pmRight? And what I understand even less is people who whine about howotherpeople choose to spend their own money, like our friend Red Squirrel above.Quote from: SilverSolder on November 02, 2020, 10:59:59 pmThen buy a simple phone instead of a smartphone. They still exist. Or use a low end smartphone and ignore most of what it can do. It’s not as though other people’s smartphones affect whatyoudo withyourphone.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 11:14:00 pm
content: Yeah on the iPhone 11 thing, I have an XR I bought at the end of 2018. I've got until December before AppleCare runs out. I'll probably buy a 12 then and probably on Amazon. I don't really care about yearly upgrades, just when my risks are no longer mitigated.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2020, 11:50:15 pm
content: Did not realize it had already been a year since the 11, it seems it was not that long ago. But either way if Apple really cared about the environment they would stop doing on purpose to make it hard to repair them, and they would stop changing connectors and doing on purpose to force people to buy new chargers/accessories. When a company says they care about the environment it's all smoke in mirrors. To believe them you need to look at their actions. Purposely adding code in devices to not accept replacement parts is not caring for the environment.Android is not perfect either though, honestly all phones are crap in this regard, but Apple seems to go the extra mile to make extra sure you're not fixing anything. Android could be made better if they changed the way updates work. All updates, including security and OS updates, should just come through the play store. It makes no sense to separate it and rely on the manufacturer.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 01:21:35 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 02, 2020, 11:08:54 pmIt's a classic tragedy of the commons situation. Individuals make rational decisions for their situation, but the negative impacts of Apple's anti-competitive behaviour aren't painful or visible enough to enough individuals to have an effect on their aggregate behaviour, which encourages more anti-competitiveness. It's not just Apple, this vertical tying is happening across our society, but Apple is one of the most egregious.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 04:42:08 am
content: Quote from: tooki on November 02, 2020, 07:05:39 am...and just how can that result in anything more than bad image quality? No, Apple deliberately decided to psychologically mess with its users by detecting "non-original" parts and then purposely making it "not quite work". Imagine if Apple made their computer's OS detect a non-Apple keyboard or mouse was connected, and then caused it to randomly drop or repeat keys and clicks or movements, spreading FUD about non-Apple components. This sort of deception should be illegal.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 05:18:41 am
content: I just watched this video of a guy who bought 2 brand new identical iPhone 12 and swapped a bunch of parts to see what would happen. Then he swapped everything back. Is this Apple just trying to kill the 3rd party repair business or is their tech so much more advanced it needs parts that must be matched at the factory? I get trying to stop knock-off batteries but even identical brand new phones won't allow swaps without some reprogramming bull seems to make me think it's Apple killing 3rd party repair so they can dictate the terms of product use from beginning to end of lifecycle:

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 05:42:38 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on November 02, 2020, 10:25:37 pmYou haven't used a modern Android in quite a while have you? ;-)In all seriousness, what you describe is basically the target market Apple is going for (that and those who like pretty packaging). If you just want a phone without the latest bells and whistles, that does a reasonable job of being a phone, then Apple devices are perfect. The moment you want to do something a little different or start customising things, that's when you start looking at alternatives.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 11:19:11 am
content: That’s exactly it. I don’t have the time to tinker with my essential gadgets: they have to just work.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 02:26:41 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 03, 2020, 05:42:38 amThis is why I don't get Android... Why are there so few suppliers that are "different" by having headphone jacks, replaceable batteries, SIM cards, and the rest of the good stuff that makes for a good long term experience with the device?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 02:39:18 pm
content: Do you actually "own" your Apple device? I haven't looked at the EULA carefully enough but is it possible perhaps for a phone manufacturer now and in the future to grant you license to use the hardware and platform but not really own anything (like downloadable books and music). I don't know what kind of legal framework there is for that or if it's happened already.Note that I am not complaining or arguing for/against it, as long as consumers know what is happening. I have a number of Apple devices going back to 4S, 5C, 6... my wife has an 8... all but the 8 were given to me for FREE... I managed to successfully repair them using cheap eBay parts (or sometimes just opening and closing them and reseating connectors or letting moisture out) and they work great. I wouldn't have paid for these devices but considering the 4S is still functioning it would be a good deal.My 4S actually is a case for what Apple is doing with batteries because it happened to me:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 02:45:00 pm
content: It usually depends if you're renting the device or buying it which is set out in your contract terms. If you're buying it, at least in the UK, you own it and it is covered by the consumer rights act 2015 which gives statutory warranty for everything that a consumer buys for 6 years against defects. Yes 6 years.When you walk into an Apple store with an issue here you get to choose if you want to use your AppleCare extended warranty (which covers stupid things you did for 2 years), limited warranty (which covers anything apple did for a year) or statutory warranty (which covers anything apple did for 6 years if they like it or not).Consumer legislation should establish this in whatever region you are in. It might not. In that case, best to buy it on a credit card. They own it then.As for batteries, here in the UK they are considered consumable which is fair. They do wear out. They charge £49 for the replacement. Sounds like a lot? Well until something goes wrong at which point you walk out of the Apple Store with a brand new handset. The dodgy guy down the market you literally have no idea what will happen. A friend of mine discovered that the guy in the market stall he got to repair his phone had actually swapped the entire front with a no brand part from China and was selling his front on ebay afterwards as a genuine part

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 03:11:26 pm
content: I mean, do I care whether I "own" it or not? I hate to sound thick but it sits in front of me, of course I own it. I licence the software, as part of the purchase, but that licence is indefinite (for the life of the device.)My phone is not going to fly out of the home on some kind of Apple-drone. And I highly doubt Apple will make the decision to brick devices remotely - the PR would be a disaster.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 04:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 03, 2020, 02:39:18 pmI had a 4s, and I liked it. Then, not knowing any better, I accepted an Apple OS update. It basically made the phone useless... and that's when I discovered that Apple won't let you downgrade back to what you had.That was my last Apple phone...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on November 03, 2020, 04:24:43 pmI'm up to the last update that Apple was able to push to the phone... or I think I may have stopped around the time I heard they were "throttling" them down because they want to manage the life of the batteries (although I'm not sure it even applied to the 4S as they were already on a newer OS that couldn't even work on 4S). Anyways, my 4S still works absolutely fine, aside from having a crappy camera and tiny screen, most apps still work. A few apps don't install at all as they need a newer OS to work. The Apple 4S was circa 2011-2012.My daily driver is an iPhone 5C which is circa 2013. It replaced my other daily driver which was a BlackBerry Z10 (also circa 2013). As an app developer I got both of these phones for free, and I still use them. The only reason I'm not on BlackBerry Z10 anymore is because a bunch of companies stopped supporting apps for that platform... Facebook, WhatsApp, LinkedIn, Instagram, etc... all dropped out. For a while I was "side-loading" Android apps into the BlackBerry Z10 as it could run it, but it was a very old android runtime.I still use the BlackBerry Z10 for various things as a secondary screen on WiFi, and if not for the crappy battery life, I would still be using it as my daily driver.... because I don't care much for those apps anymore anyways (and I can just use the browser-version). However, since BlackBerry stopped supporting BB10, there have been no browser updates either and so now I can't even load certain websites properly (same happened with their Playbook). Sad since these devices still work beautifully.So a colleague of mine had an iPhone 6 that developed a screen issue... there were vertical lines in the display which would also affect the touch-screen typing (so certain keys on the virtual keyboard didn't work either). Apparently the wife was in the habit of using the phone right out of the shower, they suspected humidity in it. They were in for an upgrade from their carrier so they were nice enough to give me the phone for keepers as they know I like to tinker with stuff. I opened it up and inspected it, nothing looked damaged. I let things dry out for a week or more, it still gave some sporadic lines and then one day it went back to normal and has never given me any problem since.I am still using my iPhone 5C but I have the iPhone 6 ready and waiting... which I use for taking photos and filming most of my YouTube videos, on WiFi with various apps, but not my daily driver (although I should eventually switch, I like the smaller 5C in my pocket). So as far as I'm concerned I am happy just collecting old iPhone's from my friends who are ready to toss them out and using them another 5-6 years. That's the best recycling program you could ever have.Here's a video I did comparing some of the iPhones we have. The iPhone 4S, 5C, 6 are all freebie hand-me-downs and only the iPhone 8 is my wife's that she upgraded to with her phone plan (after complaining about the second free 5C that I gave her to use prior to it). Both of us prior to these were on BlackBerry Z10's, both of which I still have and use almost daily as well:If I were to suggest... although I'm not an "Apple" person by any means, the fact that I was fortunate enough to have friends/colleagues who bite the bullet on the initial cost but then pass them on to me and now still using them 6 or 7 years later says something. I can't say that for all brands.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 08:29:49 pm
content: After the fatal OS update, my 4s would simply get very hot and drain the battery in half a day (lasted several days before the update). Ruined a perfectly working phone, basically.Let's just call it a "very negative user experience"!