Dodgy manufacturer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 12:43:31 am
content: who the hell scrapes the ICs to hide the identifying markings so they can't be replaced. This is the daughter board off a 'Shanghai Electronics Way' treadmill motor control board. Geez Louise.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 01:50:37 am
content: "...helo, we don't want our design copied, tank u 4 ur email..."At least that may explain why I see so many new-ish looking treadmills dumped on nature stripsOnce they fail 6 weeks past the warranty period and the owners advised of the board replacement priceout she goes...

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 01:50:43 am
content: The usual reason for erasing markings is not to frustrate repair but to try to prevent cloning the design.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 02:03:29 am
content: Nevermind the fact that those look like pretty standard parts and tracing out the schematic one could probably guess what they are, or their function...

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 03:54:00 am
content: Should've painted out the resistor values, too. Or a good coat of Flex Seal over the whole thing.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:28:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 09, 2018, 01:50:37 amthey are the fools who don't know their consumer rights and think once the warranty is up they have to pay to repaireverything needs to last a 'reasonable' amount of time. I had no problem getting a full refund on a Bauhn tv for a friend and a free repair on a Dishlex diswasher for my sister after both failed when two years old and only came with a 12mths warranty. Both were valued around $600. No problem at all.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:39:54 am
content: Quote from: amyk on May 09, 2018, 02:03:29 amyes they are standard parts. Op amps and a pwm generator i believe. I would like to see a schematic if you want to have a crack at it.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:42:26 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on May 09, 2018, 01:50:37 amQuote from: helius on May 09, 2018, 01:50:43 amwhich makes you wonder why this didn't happen.Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on May 09, 2018, 03:54:00 amanything is possible and one guess is as good as another but when you consider what happens in the tv servicing industry and how repairers are often hindered by the unavailability of service manuals and boards, particularly main boards, or service manuals lacking critical information like schematics and parts lists or boards being priced out of the reach of an economical repair I tend to lean towards a preference not to repair more than we don't want anyone to copy our fail design.

author: bob225
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:50:02 am
content: What is the make of the treadmill ? no doubt its a copy of a copy, Of another copy of the originalErasing numbers off parts has been around since the days of tubes - its nothing new

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:04:54 am
content: Quote from: bob225 on May 09, 2018, 08:50:02 amno doubt but I haven't been around that long in this industry and it caught me by surprise. I suspect it's more common in some industries more than others.The make is Sportsamico and god only knows what it is a re-badge of.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:24:09 am
content: Seems to be mostly/only chinese manus that do this.The irony of it all is breathtaking.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 09:44:27 am
content: Given the prevalence of salvaged and re-marked parts on the Shenzen market, they could simply buy a batch of whatever parts they are, get them blacktopped and re-marked with a completely different part number.That would confuse the hell out of all but the most lateral thinking of reverse engineers. It must be a cheap enough process considering how common it is.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 06:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 09, 2018, 09:44:27 amWe see that coming a mile away. If it doesn't show up on Google, we assume it's propietary and see what else fits. If they wanted to be actually evil they'd use a similar but different enough part number, like an opamp chip with the same pinout but wrong specs.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2018, 07:38:07 pm
content: Opamp labelled as comparator would be a good one, they often have the same pinout....This stuff has been going on since at least the Philbrick research era.Regards, Dan.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 09:41:34 am
content: Quote from: JohnnyMalaria on May 09, 2018, 03:54:00 amUsually epoxy resin is used for this. Or polyurethane varnish. Or some other congealing shit that makes electronic block repairable as a common brick.

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2018, 12:01:13 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on May 28, 2018, 09:41:34 amI was thinking Flex Seal because of the insane advertising demonstrations on US TV. Such as...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NygbA9UYPw&feature=youtu.be&t=63A perfect study of US commercialism

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 01:29:04 pm
content: Very common with chinese manufacturers.They have huge issues over in china of chinese manufacturers copying off eachother & stealing designs. It's very common.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:05:26 am
content: Quote from: CM800 on May 30, 2018, 01:29:04 pmgiven how common copyright infringements are with international brands I'm not surprised they want to protect their own stuff from themselves.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:14:51 am
content: after further research and discussion with those more experienced and knowledgeable including the replies here, I've come to the conclusion it is solely to prevent being copied and not my previous belief it was trying to hinder repair. Cheers for the info.

author: clucas
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:17:43 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 27, 2018, 07:45:02 pminteresting, I wouldn't have thought they had that much protection there but I was referring to Australian consumer law only.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 12:27:58 am
content: What's more interesting, and I've seen it on many routers / switches etc .. it appears that it is all hand soldered.When I asked a supplier why, a couple years ago, they said it was cheaper !!! Go figure

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 02:47:50 am
content: Quote from: digsys on June 03, 2018, 12:27:58 amWere they using children or something?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 06:03:18 am
content: ... and worse than that ... there is a pool of ~1 billion ultra-poor, The govt allows companies to hire people on training contracts / work experience /internship or whatever name they decide to call it .. and provide only accommodation and / or minimal pay for months. Then they can dump them.And worse .. ages ago, I worked on a large govt contract in Malaysia where we were "required" to accept a few dozen chinese slave labourers.They got paid ~$1 day, plus stuffed into a tin shed. You're not in Kansas now mate :-)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 05:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 09, 2018, 09:44:27 amAtari did this with some of their early arcade games back in the 70s. I helped someone working on an old board that had a mask ROM labeled with a a 74xx TTL number. Looking at the schematic it was obvious that it was a ROM but that's not what the number looked up as.I see sanded off numbers on ICs all the time, and it's usually stuff that isn't worth trying to copy in the first place. Usually it makes me curious and increases the likelihood that I'll reverse engineer it.