Breadboard maintenance tips? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 08:51:41 am
content: Do you have any maintenance tips for breadboards?How to keep, how to clean if/when needed (e.g. if dust falls insides), and other useful advice.The reason to ask this is that I recently received my first hopefully useful breadboard (still a cheapo though). Regardless of the breadboard in question, it would be good to get some tips.I know that some advice was mentioned in other threads, but I'm not sure if there's a thread specifically for breadboard maintenance, rather than choosing a good model or discussing a specific one. If so, please let me know.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 09:11:40 am
content: Chuck them in the bin and buy new ones regularly. I'll be lucky if I get a year out of a good (Wisher) one before it becomes knackered.To be honest I only use them for discrete digital prototypes now. It's easy enough to whip up something dead bug.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 09:19:28 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 06, 2017, 09:11:40 amGood for any "permanent" solutions, I'm sure it's much better for high frequency stuff as well, but for experimentation/learning, a modern breadboard (not the real deal) could/should be the simplest way. Unless you have a soldering iron on 24/7, it's easier to replace a component or change alignment.I'm sure they can be used for semi permanent circuits too, if it gets to a point it's so complex you'd rather not have to redo it. Complex circuits won't likely be an issue for me for a long time (until I know enough to work on one).

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 09:53:03 am
content: It is until you get a dicky connection on the breadboard or the scope probe pulls a wire out and you can't remember where it went. To be honest they're fine for testing small cells of a system. My approach to design is always:1. design the system block diagram2. design the interfaces between each blocks3. pick a block, scribble out the design on paper and do research etc.4. build a prototype on breadboard for the block (dead bug for HF, analogue. solderless for digital)5. test/debug it.6. build a permanent module on matrix/strip board/straight copper clad.7. Go to 3. This time round I connect the already built models to the other breadboards to do system integration testing.I built a few things like this including a frequency counter, whole Z80 based computer, pattern trigger etc.Your complicated circuits are made of lots of little blocks of simple circuits so it's nice and easy working this way.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 10:08:13 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on September 06, 2017, 09:53:03 amSounds good, also you have had some experience obviously.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 10:24:45 am
content: It depends on the breadboard and the type of wear or damage. Its possible to keep a high quality breadboard like a BIMboard or 3M breadboard in good working order through years of hobby use. BOSS even used to sell spare contact strips for their BIMboards. Unfortunately they are discontinued so one has to resort to scavenging spares from a donor board. If you don't have spares, it still may well be worth removing the backing to let you remove the affected contact(s) then carefully reshape them to restore contact tension. Also while the backing is off you can vacuum any dust out operating from the top side so you don't suck the contact strips out, and even wash it out with contact cleaner.OTOH with cheap & nasty Chinese breadboards, when they start acting up they are scrap.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 10:29:57 am
content: With this cheap one, I've noticed one issue.That is, it's quite difficult to insert components at first.Is this different with more expensive boards?It doesn't have to be a big issue, as after being able to do it once, I can do it again without any problem.It does mean that I need to carefully insert a component into every pin before being able to use it comfortably.I would assume when you pay more, you don't have to do that (unless there's a reason to make them that way).

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 11:02:28 am
content: That's a clear sign of a crappy breadboard. It should accept 22AWG wires with square cut ends cleanly and without excessive force. The most likely case is insufficient flair at the top of the formed contacts so the lead is catching on the edge of the contact rather than wedging the two sprung sides apart. Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/what%27s-a-fair-price-for-breadboards/, especially Julian Ilett's video(linked in reply#2). You may also find my comments in reply#10 worth a look.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 11:07:19 am
content: The really cheap ones (MB-102's in particular) feel really good for the first 2-3 component leads. Then they fall out and get unreliable. Wisher ones at least stay good for 50-80 insertions. I can't vouch for 3M but they are known good. 3M ones are available from the OEM who produces them for much less. There is a thread on it.Either way if you have cheap shitty chinese resistors with hairs for legs then both the boards are difficult to work with. I tend to use Royal Ohm 0.25W ones as they have thick legs.Here's what is on my Wisher one - pulse counter. Surprisingly good to 20MHz or so:This is about 3 months old and is still going strong. Its predecessor is junked

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 11:27:20 am
content: Yes, it is an MB-102. I will see how it works after some work out, right now it feels difficult to insert anything.The leads from my resistors are about 0.4-0.5mm;The box says 20-29 AWG, but who knows what they copied that from.Also, over 5000 insertion cycles.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 11:42:19 am
content: Considering there are 830 holes, that's just over 6 insertions per hole so about rightI've got a few of the MB-102's floating around that I was given. Here's a side by side comparison.Note:* +/- clearly applied by a drunk* Plastic that they actually cheaped out on the dye so it's heading towards transparent* Where is zero. Not at 0. This isn't ordinal or cardinal, it's craaaaazy* you cant see it there but it's bent.* Some of the holes actually have plastic in them.I have buggered one on purpose quickly:* 20 insertions of thin resistor lead and it's wobbly.* 8 insertions of thick resistor lead kill it dead - no contact.* 1 insertion of TO-220 killed the hole dead even though the pins are rotated.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 12:10:57 pm
content: @Bd139,Can you pull a contact strip from one of the crap boards and post a high magnification closeup? (Preferably an end-on view to show the contact shape) I suspect its the same contact forming issue that was discussed in the topic I linked and that Julian Ilett's "FAKE Solderless Breadboards" Youtube video covered.Also, if you can spare the time, are willing to risk damaging the contact strip, and have a selection of straight shank micro drill bits, you could try inserting the butt end of various sizes up to the breadboard hole size to find how thick a pin it can take before it permanent deforms the contact.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 12:19:40 pm
content: It will have to do for me. Hopefully after the work out (right now it's difficult to insert any pin) it might be useful, or at least usable.Otherwise, I'll have to check about getting a decent deal for something that does work, or just stick to working with other methods.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 12:27:10 pm
content: I can't afford to take one apart, but here are some USB micro photos of a few of the contacts as is:Some of these had a few cycles already during my testing.Most are still quite difficult to get anything into.To compare, the only thing I have is this even cheaper tiny board.Now, this has been used for a long time (at the very least multiple months), and even used improperly sometimes with larger pins. I would say that some contacts had hundreds of cycles, while others might have been used less.All of the contacts still work. I can't say about how wobbly it is (don't have much to compare with), but simple circuits I've used it with do work.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 12:44:56 pm
content: Its very hard to see the contact shape from directly above. Take some photos at a moderate angle, inline with the strip direction. However the top left section of the top photo doesn't look good - there appears to be a very abrupt bend near the top of the contact which isn't well shaped to accept wires cleanly. The distortion seen on some of the more used contacts implies the spring fingers are hitting the sides of the pocket near their tips and being crushed by larger leads.The lower photo, although of a cheap board, appears to have much better shaped contacts.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:03:25 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 06, 2017, 12:10:57 pmHere you go. I've included a picture of the packaging as well. These were bought from Tayda electronics:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:09:13 pm
content: And a Wisher one for comparison:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:12:35 pm
content: Just to add I'll knacker some when I get some new HSS drills. I just checked and half mine are missing

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 06, 2017, 12:44:56 pmHere are some (note, not in the same order, I just stacked the photos together randomly):Looks fairly bad. I don't know how much difference there is from board to board (that is, if there are better and worse samples).

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:36:11 pm
content: @Bd139,Well, they don't look as bad as the one in Julian Illet's video:http://youtu.be/VerbEZtACwQ(zoomed frame @3:30 attached),but its obvious they have far less flair at the tip than the Wisher one, and are showing signs of permanent distortion. I think there are two problems here - bad contact forming, and also low grade alloy that isn't springy enough, so an ordinary component lead takes it past its yield point.Can you check it with a magnet to see if its plated steel, and if not, file the back of the bad one a little bit at the very end so you can see if its plated brass, without wrecking the contact?@Kalel,Yes that shows the contact profile quite well. At least some of the strips have a near right angle bend at the tips instead of a sensible 45 deg or radiussed bend for a flared opening. You can see top center right, that at least one contact has already been crushed by an attempted lead insertion because it failed to open. If you want to use this board, as forcing a square ended wire in is likely to ruin the contact, you'll need to mount a sharp needle in a small wooden dowel as a handle (or in a pin vice) and *carefully* open each contact enough to get a wire in without crushing it, then *NEVER* use the board with undersize wires or leads.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:41:19 pm
content: Not bad as that was an unused new contact strip with zero insertions. That one in the video is idiotically bad.It's plated steel (Chinesium) of some description - I checked that already with a magnet wondering the same thing. It's quite brittle. It only took a 90 degree fold to snap it. Feels like RFI shielding cans do as a material.Might go and Widlarize this one later

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:50:13 pm
content: I didn't expect longevity or resistance performance, but being completely unusable (as is) has surprised me a bit, especially after the other, cheaper (but smaller) board.The box is exactly like the one bd139 showed. If I got another one, perhaps it will be better, but I'm not sure about doing that.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:55:34 pm
content: I bought this off of eBay marked 3M:

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 02:07:01 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on September 06, 2017, 01:55:34 pmHopefully it wasn't expensive.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 02:14:54 pm
content: Actually, that looks fairly promising. Brass coloured contacts and pre-formed to a sharp diamond shape opening indicates that at least some care has been taken selecting metal for, and stamping the contact strips. I don't have a genuine 3M breadboard purchased from a major distributor to compare with - maybe someone else can post a suitable photo?@All: You can do the magnet test without dismantling the breadboard if you have a small strong magnet.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 02:19:33 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 06, 2017, 02:14:54 pmMy bad then.Of course, still, affordable is better.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 02:36:39 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on September 06, 2017, 02:07:01 pmI paid $11 per board for 10 boards.I used some strong magnets and they don't seem to be affected at all by the breadboard.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 03:04:24 pm
content: So I did a resistance test, not sure if it is good enough or not to figure out the plating or whether it is brass, etc. I used some of Franky's fine 4 wire pinchers with my Fluke 8845A. I connected them to a small pin to insert into the breadboard and did so at the top power busses which are 5 wide 5 pins each. The 3M board from eBay has 0.0215 ohms, but another board I tested was 0.0460 or 0.0623 or even 0.1203.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 08:18:18 pm
content: Mike over at Assembly Specialist hooked me up with some powder coated plates to put the eBay breadboards on, so I should be GTG on breadboards for awhile. The eBay seller who sold me the breadboards is here:https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=paula111751&item=202040059624&_osacat=0&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC2.A0.H0.Xbreadboard.TRS2&_nkw=breadboard&_sacat=0

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 08:32:50 pm
content: You get what you pay for. Picture from another post (in case someone missed it)I bet this breadboard cost a fortune in its day.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 08:35:40 pm
content: A four wire test along the full length of a power bus, with the forcing wires in the outermost pair of holes and the sense wires in the next pair of holes, the distance between the sense wire holes, together with accurate measurement of the individual contact finger width, the total width of the metal in the base of the strip including upturns and the thickness would be the minimum required to get an approximate figure for the resistivity that could be compared to that of various candidate alloys. Its probably not worth it unless you have known good breadboards to compare to, due to the wide range of resistivity of cuprous alloys depending on their composition and purity. However a resistance per inch figure for the bus bars, excluding contact resistance, could be a good metric for comparison to separate the good from the bad and ugly.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 09:13:47 am
content: You probably do get what you pay for with these.The MB-102 is so popular these days, that probably there's some difference in quality between boards. I.e. I guess not all are useless at arrival like mine is, while they might not last long.I don't have the right tools or knowledge to properly reshape the contacts, so I will probably be unable to use it for anything. It's "easy" if you can afford it to get the most expensive one, but what the proper balance between cost and being useful is, that's a good question.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 05:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on September 06, 2017, 10:24:45 amThe thing I have learned is not to exceed the maximum wire diameter. On TO-220 parts for example, I solder short lengths of thinner round bus bar wire onto the leads rather than inserting the leads directly into the breadboard.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 02:14:55 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on September 08, 2017, 05:08:53 pmOr just use flat jaw pliers to rotate the pins 90 degrees so they are parallel to the contact strips.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 10:01:15 am
content: This is what I do. Learned that from the first edition of Art of ElectronicsIf you wobble a TO220 lead in those shitty breadboards while checking continuity you will be a sad person though twisted leads or not.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2017, 12:22:50 pm
content: Honestly, I've got a mix of breadboards, mostly Chinese, some 3M, and even among the Chinese ones there are massive differences. The worst one has around 1 ohm contact resistance (!!!), the better ones are similar to the 3M, though with less grip force.