Agilent 54831B windows XP upgrade - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: radarx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:43:56 am
content: Hi everyone,I recently bought Agilent 54831B scope on ebay but unfortunately it has windows98 on board which is a bit obsolete.Can someone help me with windows XP upgrade ? I did search for more information but without success.I know that Agilent released upgrade cs N5383A which can migrate scope to the XP system, but I'm unable to find it.I can install XP on the scope but drivers from 98 dont work, any ideas ?Thanks,Radek

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:29:46 pm
content: any real reason why to want an upgrade of a working OS in a fine working instrument?

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 02:44:12 pm
content: I guess that the Windows XP upgrade came with a corresponding mainboard upgrade. So you'd have to find a compatible mainboard. It may be possible that these use a custom BIOS to handle the special graphics card they're using.In my experience the Windows 98 scopes were much more responsive than the ones with Windows XP, so I'd stick with Windows 98. Officially, they're both equally obsolete.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 04:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: radarx on February 26, 2016, 11:43:56 amWell, the whole scope has been obsolete for a very long timeI hope you didn't pay too much for it, these first generation Infiniium scopes were pretty slow and limited, and especially the Win9x models were plagued with stability issues.QuoteIt's difficult. N5383A was essentially just set of CDs (no new boards or any other upgraded hardware required) that upgraded the Windows 9x installation on Win9x Infiniiums with sufficient ressources (i.e. RAM, HDD) to XP. The set contained some special update software and the required XP drivers and applications.Back then the N5383A kit was given away free of charge to lots of Infiniium users who had one of the Win9x scopes, probably in an attempt to quell down the complaints about reliability issues (although these were also partially hardware related). Today, well, aside from the occasional offer on ebay for often some ridiculous amount of money they are pretty hard to come by. I also don't think the drivers were available separately or from other sources.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:11:37 pm
content: you need to check if your machine has the motorola VP22 motherboard. Those can be loaded with XP. The older machine has an AMI board.

author: radarx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 26, 2016, 05:11:37 pmYes, my machine is VP22 loaded, RAM in not an issue here, I've already upgraded memory.Why I want to upgrade the scope ? I'd like to have newest software which includes jitter measurement tools and requires XP system,also Win98 is very limited and obsolete.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:28:26 pm
content: Quote from: radarx on February 26, 2016, 11:43:56 amWhat you need is somebody else with the same 'scope to make a disk image for you...

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: radarx on February 26, 2016, 08:03:32 pmThen go and get a copy of Windows XP, the scope app you can find on keysight.com.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:52:42 pm
content: i can make you a drive clone. i have a virgin master disk for these machines ( meaning a drive with winxp and scope firmware that has never booted. ) i bought this a few years ago to restore my machines ( i have both a 54831A and 54832D

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:30:10 pm
content: Is there any difference in image between -A and -D models?

author: radarx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 10:32:40 am
content: Quote from: Lukas on February 26, 2016, 08:33:37 pmWindows XP and scope app itself is not a problem here, I can easly install both but It wont work for one simple reason - no XP drivers for PCI Acquisition boards.Quote from: free_electron on February 26, 2016, 08:52:42 pmI'll be more than gratefulCan you upload this on some kind of server ? Wetransfer maybe ?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:30:08 am
content: If the -A and -D are the same images, you might want to try pm'ing forum user blacknoise. I had a great deal of help from him with my 54831DIf no response, pm me and I'll see what I can do, I have an Acronis image but it's not hosted anywhere. I am away in Hong Kong again for the next 36 hours so it might have to wait until I return.

author: radarx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 12:18:27 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on February 27, 2016, 11:30:08 amI've already contacted with him and have acronis image but unfortunatelythere are some hardware difference between D and B models because this image doesnt include drivers to my version of the scope.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: radarx on February 27, 2016, 10:32:40 ami dont know how your equipment is working, but if its like a PC, with expandable hard drive etc, i used to boot from XP with 98 as secondary drive. when XP tries to search for a driver, i'll manually search the required files in 98's windows/inf, windows/system32 etc, XP will tell the exact file names after it found the compatible *.inf, just follow and find the names. if my memory serves me well, i remember this method is statistically 100% of success...

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 27, 2016, 01:44:55 pmThis method is pretty much 100% going to fail. Windows 9x (which is a DOS based OS) hardware drivers are simply incompatible with Windows XP (which is NT based). They don't work in XP. Never. Ever.The only exception are modem and monitor "drivers", where it often (not always!) works to use Win9x files with Windows XP if genuine XP files aren't available. This is because these "drivers" are not really drivers but simple hardware description files, i.e. text files which describe the hardware properties in a standardized format. But even with modems this only works for "real" (i.e. hardware" modems) and failed for soft-modems which require real hardware drivers, and these drivers are different for Win9x and WindowsXP.For the OP, unless he find XP (or even W2k) drivers for the acquisition system in his scope he's out of luck.

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 05:32:10 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 27, 2016, 02:22:36 pmAren't these included in the scope app bundle from keysight.com? Wouldn't make much sense not to include the drivers with the bundle.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 05:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: Lukas on February 27, 2016, 05:32:10 pmIt's been a long time since I've used one of those old Infiniiums but if I remember right the scope app is just that - the scope app.I don't think the drivers were ever available on their own.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 10:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 27, 2016, 02:22:36 pmi think you are too young when Win98 is released. the idea of DOS based OS only during the era of Win3.11... Win98 is fully 32 bits. i havent recall any incompatibility issue between 98 and XP, only during 3.11 to 95 transition when 16 bits to 32 bits app forward compatibility was an issue. if not because of USB support, i think i will still in 98 right now... if all Windows version are brothers, 98 and XP are the closest brother, top 2 of my favourite Windows... and if you have used and know many Windows, other OSes will hide in a closet if its about forward compatibilitiness.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 27, 2016, 10:31:22 pmYeah, right.I started programming on systems like a VAX 11/780 and CP/M.QuoteI'm sorry but that's really a load of nonsense.For a start, Windows 95 and Windows 98*ARE*based on DOS (actually DOS 7.0), which is required for them to even boot. Windows 9x is also not fully 32bit, in fact it's a 32bit/16bit hybrid using a virtual machine manager for the 32bit parts on top of the 16bit DOS. It's a true single user system, with limited multitasking and no memory protection (which was one of the reason it was easy to crash). Because Windows 9x is based on DOS, DOS drivers and TSRs worked in Windows 9x as well (and were often the only way to get older hardware to work with it.)QuoteCommonality between Win 98 and XP is roughly the same like a kitchen chair and a rubber boat98 and XP have very little in common. XP is not based on Windows 9x, it's based on Windows NT. That means no DOS, true 32bit with memory protection and multitasking, full multi-user support, and 16bit support in text-mode emulation only. Under the hood the architecture is completely different, and it requires drivers that are written for the NT kernel.Having said that, Windows 98 introduced the Windows Driver Model (WDM) in addition to support for 16bit DOS and 32bit VxD drivers, and because WDM was also used in Windows 2000 the idea was to get a common set of drivers for Win98/ME and W2k. However, this never worked out, and pretty much any hardware that supported both platforms required separate WDM drivers for Win98/ME and W2k (in XP, WDM has also seen various changes, and while XP can run W2k driver the other way around usually doesn't work).All which means that aside from text 'drivers' for stuff like monitors and modems you always need XP specific drivers for XP. Windows 98 drivers will not work.QuoteSo I guess you haven't used many other operating systems then.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:26:49 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 27, 2016, 10:31:22 pm

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:39:46 pm
content: reading google is easy than experience it.. yeah keep learning the theory. i just suggest the possibility to the OP... this is what i did, not what i read... the only failure i can see is if the driver is native 16 bits.Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 27, 2016, 11:17:31 pmi let newer Windows that i setup on several PCs for my kids to learn... but they do run the SW that i brought from WIn95 just fine... some if not all... enlighten me with another OSes?

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 10:33:24 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 27, 2016, 11:39:46 pmThere's a BIG difference between S/W programs and drivers. Wuerstchenhund is absolutely correct. You cannot use Win98 drivers with XP or vice-versa. It will never ever work.Jay

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 11:42:38 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on February 27, 2016, 11:39:46 pmI'd suggest you get at least a basic understanding about what you're talking about before trying to lecture others, because right now you make yourself look like a foolQuoteNo, you didn't, at least not what you believe you did, which is clear because....Quote... you obviously don't even know the difference between an application and a driver

author: radarx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:06:18 am
content: I managed to force windows xp and install drivers from another scope XP image (thanks blacknoise) but there is still something wrong with the system itself because when I'm starting scope app then I get message "acquisition board bad memory address" so it seems like I need an image of the fresh HDD which Agilent delivered to the customers. This is the only way to upgrade this machine, can anyone help ?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:56:51 am
content: Quote from: radarx on March 02, 2016, 10:06:18 amWhich is probably because the old acq board revision in your scope.QuoteUsing some hard disk image of a scope that was sold with XP is unlikely to work as the XP Infiniiums had a newer board revisions.I guess the only way to upgrade your scope is via the N5383A upgrade kit which contains the correct drivers for your scope.However, considering that the N5383A kit is difficult to get these days I'd seriously consider just using the scope with Windows 98 instead. The XP software isn't really much better than the Windows9x software, and it won't make the scope any faster or better.