Dave Jones reference by Ben Heck - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 03:23:43 am
content: He mentioned Dave in his recent part 1 video on building a better hot glue gun. He mentioned "the mains" and said something like "well that's what Dave Jones calls it"

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:43:10 am
content: maybe he meant the late singer from the monkeys?

author: psycho0815
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 10:56:54 am
content: na he meant our dave. I'm a believer!

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 11:07:10 am
content: Didn't knew Ben Heck until know.Alexander.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 12:11:57 pm
content: Quote from: psycho0815 on December 25, 2013, 10:56:54 amHey heybut seriously... Stonent, where's our link?

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:44:44 pm
content: Quote from: apelly on December 25, 2013, 12:11:57 pmI'm at my mother in laws. More difficult with my phone.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:46:55 pm
content: http://hackaday.com/2013/12/11/ben-heck-builds-the-ultimate-glue-gun/

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:54:04 pm
content: No one else calls it the mains?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 05:30:56 pm
content: Not in the US; it's the "line" here.

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 05:52:51 pm
content: Yup, it's the mains down in this neck of the woods too.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 05:55:58 pm
content: Always the mains here, I've heard line when we talk about mains power, but not as a replacement.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 06:05:25 pm
content: He mentioned Dave before. Dave also said a few words about not having as much production value as the Ben Heck Show in one of the eevblogs. From what I gathered the two of them had talked. But who cares really? They cater to similar but different audiences and it makes sense to talk about the other person. Nothing to get excited about. Mjlorton talks about dave all the time. Hell I can't blame him for his man-crush! Aren't we all a bit infatuated here?

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 06:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: con-f-use on December 25, 2013, 06:05:25 pmDave you have groupies just like a rock star!

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 06:42:26 pm
content: I've started calling it the "mains" now. I used to just call it 120VAC.

author: hiddensoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:10:43 am
content: Real men tongue test mains......Disclaimer DoNOTtry this at home/work/In public or for that matter anywhere

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:38:46 am
content: Quote from: hiddensoul on December 26, 2013, 01:10:43 amWhen I first started as leco my "foreman" said for touch tests use the back of the hand so that if it's live you wont clench the live bit... Have never been able to find that that in any OHS manual

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:39:54 am
content: Quote from: orion242 on December 25, 2013, 06:13:16 pmBono's groupies are balding male nerds?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:51:47 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on December 25, 2013, 06:05:25 pmI've never spoke to Ben, I don't know him apart from his videos.Yes, TBHS has massive production value, mine has almost none in comparison. Element 14's budget for one Ben Heck episode would be more than I spend in a year - seriously.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:37:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 01:51:47 amwhen you dont have the content, you have to make up for it with flash.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:09:29 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 26, 2013, 03:37:42 amBen's show has plenty of potential awesome content. The stuff he builds is great.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:37:28 am
content: Quote from: hiddensoul on December 26, 2013, 01:10:43 amI remember learning from this one old guy, he tells me "This is how you test voltage rails. Anything from 40 to 80v, just touch it. No feeling means broken. I decided just to stick with a DMM."

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:24:33 am
content: I knew an electrician with a calibrated hand, attached to his assistant Clifford. He could tell if live, and what voltage, from "broken wire" to " HAU! 2 plenty" volts.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:49:58 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 04:09:29 amFor those not familiar with him, Ben Heck is the guy who was turning various video game consoles into portable units. You name it, if it was ever a full sized video game console, he's made a portable version.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Heckendorn

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 07:04:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 04:09:29 amI think somewhat the opposite of deth502, Bens videos have quite a bit of content, and if he showed everything he did, it would make an episode 8 hours long. They cut out the bits that slow the progress, put in some "shazam" to fill the gaps/ease the transitions. As the videos are designed to appeal to a larger audience, they need to have the length and complexity for the average viewer.As Dave said, Bens videos have plenty of potential awesome content, it's not like Ben goes and buys an off the shelf (lets use the example at the beginning of the topic) Automated glue gun controller with integrated SSR and motor driver, goes and buys an off the shelf housing, mounting kit, motor and extruder and then just puts it all together. If you were to show everything happening by the scenes, to us, it might be awesome, but to a wider audience, it would be like watching paint dry.A lot of people complain about length on Daves videos, and those people are the people who generally like watching paint dry, could you imagine if the red cordial and frosty flakes kid watched Daves videos?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 07:11:56 am
content: They would probably not get past the opening credits then.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 07:51:16 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on December 26, 2013, 07:04:56 amYes, and there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different market.I don't really consider Ben a fellow electronics blogger, because his content seems to be mostly mechanical builds and gaming related stuff.QuoteYes, I don't blame him/element 14 for going the route they do.QuoteIt doesn't matter what style of video you do, from a 1 minute KipKap hack, a Ben Heck style production, or one of mine or others detailed off-the-cuff style videos, you get those who hate your content for *insert reason*. That's just the way of the world. Those who don't like don't watch.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:18:31 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 04:09:29 ami just see bens stuff more like watching someone put together leggos. i see someone taking parts, and assembling them. ive only watched 4-5 videos, maybe ive just seen the wrong ones. daves videos are filled with information, when i watch daves videos, i come away having learned something, when i watch bens videos, i feel like ive just wasted time.maybe, like dave said, its just a different market, but i dont get it. in daves 555 timer assy video, he keeps going on about how bad the video sucks because no one wants to watch a soldering video. thats how i feel watching bens vids. (for the record, i still enjoyed the 555 timer video, not because of the soldering, dave was right, that was boring, lol, but because of the informative narration over it.)

author: Zepnat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:27:40 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 26, 2013, 08:18:31 am+1

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 10:47:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 04:09:29 amYeah, but your shows appear less scripted (which is why I stopped watching BH)

author: hiddensoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:00:12 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on December 26, 2013, 01:38:46 amYou won't find it in a OHS manual as the right way is to probe with a piece of test equipment first (meter etc) but in the 'Real world' it is best practice if you don't know if it is live to use the back of your hand and also when working with HV and you are probing use an isolation transformer and keep one hand in your pocket so there is no path to earth via your heart

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:12:53 am
content: Quote from: Kjetil on December 26, 2013, 10:47:21 amMine aren't scripted at all, I really don't know exactly what I'm going to say until I hit record.I doubt Ben's are scripted either from what what (little) I've seen.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 02:56:05 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 11:12:53 amBen's feel pretty scripted, I've only seen a few but I doubt they're anywhere near as off-the-cuff as yours are. That's what I love about your videos, Ben's feel a bit robotic...

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:31:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 26, 2013, 02:56:05 pmI don't have that impression - except for some obviously parts where he an his sidekicks do a mockery.It is obviously thoroughly edited. I don't mind.I like both styles. Both blogs are fun to watch.(I think that the overlap of people subscribed to both blogs is big. Not so many techy channels around and we all seem to subscribe to the same subsetand to the AmpHour)

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:16:21 pm
content: Ben's projects are frequently really cool, and yes, he does seem a bit scripted.

author: Kjetil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 11:12:53 amPoor attempt of sarcasm from my side possibly, I do understand yours are not scripted at all, but a lot of what I've seen on the other side is ;-) It is very fun to see how blogs/videoblogs interact and respond to eachother though.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 08:03:40 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 26, 2013, 02:56:05 pmI wouldn't say that Bens are heavily scripted, i'd say he does everything (not including the clear promotional stuff and the things that the producers have forced upon him to include) off the cuff and then they cherry pick the scenes and edit the shit out of them.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 09:13:21 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on December 27, 2013, 08:03:40 amFrom the few ones I have watched, I think they have kind of a plan. Call it script, framework or outline, or whatever the technical term in the film industry is. Within that outline they let BH do his thing. I don't think they just cherry pick. The team is too expensive to just base an episode on pure luck.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:19:36 am
content: Watching TBHS makes me feel like I'm watching G4TV... It's like one big commercial for Element14/Farnells.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:26:49 am
content: Quote from: justanothercanuck on December 27, 2013, 11:19:36 amWhat were you expecting? If you don't like it, don't watch it. I'm not a big fan either but sometimes he has a nice idea. Also Advertisement is only 20% of the show (tops).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:33:01 am
content: Quote from: justanothercanuck on December 27, 2013, 11:19:36 amThat's because it essentiallyis.They pay big bucks for it to be one of their key social media marketing platforms.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 11:38:53 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 27, 2013, 09:13:21 amI do go into probably the majority of videos with some kind of idea in my head about the things I want to cover, and the flow I want, but it's hardly ever written down. It's not like I'd spend a lot of time thinking about it or planning a video though, it's usually just obvious to me what I want to cover. But in most cases I always think of stuff as I'm going or change the direction.Exceptions to that would be ones I wanted to get right, like the entry level Altium rant, so I didn't forget anything, and to keep it deliberately short. So for those rare ones I'll have a post-it note with a couple of key points or short notes written down and stuck on the camera.

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 02:37:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 27, 2013, 11:33:01 amI'm probably the exception rather that the rule, but when a company is that blatant and in-your-face with advertising, I go out of my way to avoid giving them business. For instance, the E14 ads in TBHS annoy the hell out of me, so I don't even search their database when I'm looking for components. I'd buy from anywhere else before I went to them.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 27, 2013, 02:37:00 pmIgnoring a good source for components out of pure subjective spite, which is not the smartest thing to do. Although generally 15% overpriced, they have the occasional bargain, deliver fast and well packaged and have good service. I find that kind of illogical.That being said, I don't think they need TBHS for promotion. Good prices, reliability and service promote themselves. Just make your prices cheaper!

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 06:41:45 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 27, 2013, 09:13:21 amWell, clearly for any project that he designs, no matter how trivial he probably sets a bunch of requirements for it, and then he does what he needs to get it done, and for someone at his level (or daves, or whomever), there isn't really any luck to it.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 07:26:04 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on December 28, 2013, 06:41:45 amLuck as in luckily having the right camera position, the right lighting, getting the continuity always right between takes, the dialogs/monologues covering everything that needs to be said, including advertising the right Farnell products? All by sheer luck? I don't think so.You don't send an expensive filming crew to his workshop, let the crew hang around there for ages and the camera rolling, and hope the crew luckily picks up enough material to assemble an episode from it. No, you plan the contents, the shots, the dialogs, etc. BH might improvise within each scene, but the whole show it too polished to just being assembled from lucky shots. The crew does not just come in and asks Ben "What do you have for us today".Or luck when doing some design? Oh, trust me, there always is if you do something new. You might not get any surprises when you just rehash what you have done a thousand times, but when you build something you haven't build before there are always surprises. You often need that bit of luck, like getting the right parts, things luckily fitting together, having the right idea at the right time etc. And often, if you aren't lucky, you end up with another expensive brick in the garbage bin. Things don't always work out the way you think. If you believe BH or Dave don't have a box full of failed projects you are mistaken. But the fact that you only see how things work out for Ben is an indication that the shows are planned/scripted. They hide Ben's corpses.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 10:38:46 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 28, 2013, 07:26:04 amEveryone hides their corpses, when presenting the projects. Nothing wrong with it. But Ben is pretty honest about the pitfalls of his. The can crusher did not work out at all and was not edited away. The gluegun hat its problems too. I've only watch the five (or so) videos interesting to me, but in every one of them he also mentioned his difficulties and stuff that didn't work out. Of course the show is edited, of cause it is planned but a lot of it is spontaneous as well.

author: Teneyes
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 12:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: hiddensoul on December 26, 2013, 01:10:43 amBeen there, Done that!Grew up poor and was always striping wire with my Teeth.Then came the day in a TV repair shop, when I stripped a 110Vac wire!You see blue stars doing that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 01:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 28, 2013, 07:26:04 amAll the shows and builds would be planned in advance. It would be shot like a Mythbusters episode, he'd get X days to design and build something for the next show, with maybe the odd longer term project in parallel.I think Ben is the producer, so likely gets to decide on how the episode flows and the dialog etc Element 14 just give him the money and the film crew. He likely controls the whole shebang.I've noticed he wears different clothes for the advertising spots, so likely he shoots a bunch of those in advance and the editors whack that stuff in later.And there is the "on the next episode" bit at the end too, so that project would likely be well underway (or already complete), and he shoots that scene at a later date. The show is likely pipelined for that.Contrast that for me, I have no idea what my next video will be, and I rarely have any pipelined.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 05:57:47 pm
content: Never heard of the guy so decided to view a video that had a common theme (sort of) to one of Dave's.Ben Heck has the guard disconnected from his chop saw (you see it remain at the top of the saw, it's supposed to be in place around the blade until the moment of cut). The blade is in open air at all elevations waiting for flesh contact (inattention is all that is needed). I guess they'll edit it out of the show when he loses a hand or rips into his chest.7 minutes and 30 seconds in and further onhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns3rvhI7y0A#t=7m30s

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 06:32:36 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on December 25, 2013, 06:42:26 pmHaha same! I don't think I've ever heard the word "mains" used in the US ever...now I use it like it's normal.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 06:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: staxquad on December 28, 2013, 05:57:47 pmmost every woodworking show you will ever see do that (ay least thay always did, idk if things changed in the last few years). rarely, if ever, do they use guards on tv, because they obscure the shot, and thats what tv (or youtube videos) is all about.however, that said, it didnt really look the case here, since in that shot at 7:30, they didnt really show what the saw was cutting anyway.

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 06:44:15 pm
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 28, 2013, 06:39:46 pmhope the kiddies and unsuspecting adults don't copy cat because they saw it on TV or YouTube, "Ben Heck does it that way..."electronics/electrical professionals are so Cat IV 1000V, and no guard on a chop saw is like stripping live wire with your teeth

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 06:53:37 pm
content: i thnk the bigger problem are people that are too stupid and have no attention span and/or respect for the equipment that they are using that the guards become so necessary.if you try to grab a running saw blade without a guard you dont deserve those fingers you just lost, just like you deserve what you get trying to strip a 1000vac live wire with your teeth. lets put darwin back to work and skim some of the scum off of the gene pool.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 08:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on December 26, 2013, 01:38:46 amWhen I was 16, I started a National Diploma in electrical and electronic engineering (only to leave 4 weeks later when I found out it was almost impossible to get on a degree course with that qualification at the time) and the first week was all health and safety. The electrical systems lecturer 'taught' us exactly this - to use the back of your hand because then you couldn't grab the live object. I put 'taught' in quotes, because not one of us actually trusted it!I don't watch much of Ben Heck's stuff. Not least because there is very little to actually learn. In his early videos he stated clearly that he isn't an engineer - he is an artist. I wouldn't disagree with that. Nice bloke, but not an engineer. Sadly, the media is full of this sort of thing. Pseudo-science and pseudo-engineering, put together by arts people, who know nothing about science and engineering beyond what they see in lightweight populist books, written by similar people to themselves.Here in the UK we get a US TV show called The New Yankee Workshop, where an expert woodworker gets to build all sorts of furniture using a fully equipped workshop with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear, with premium hardwood that he just happens to have around, and which the average bloke in a shed can only dream of. I don't think I have seen them ever use the guards on the ripsaw, bandsaw etc. Scares the crap out of me, and I know what I'm doing around stuff like that. It makes little difference either way to camera visibility, and sets a bad example to the audience. No excuse for that sort of thing.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2013, 09:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 01:51:47 amI think he just has one camera man, who also is the producer, and most likely the editor as well (all though revision3 might do that).Massivemight be an overstatement.

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 03:52:02 am
content: This reminds me...the last episode of TBHS was one long advertisement for some kind of 3D scanner. I don't remember (or care to remember) the name of the scanner. But there was very little content added to the episode (they basically built a circle cutting jig with an upright piece to stabilize the scanner while rotating it around an object). If that is the direction TBHS is going to take, then I won't be watching any more.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 04:06:09 am
content: Quote from: george graves on December 28, 2013, 09:47:29 pmI've heard they outsource the editing, and I know roughly how much they pay for each episodeOne episodecosts more than I've ever payed for all my camera, lighting, sound and editing gear (inc computers) combined over the years + all my dedicated web hosting for the entire life of my blog.I'm not sure if it's Revision 3 or someone affiliated with them, but it is a pro editing company.

author: Erwin Ried
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 04:55:04 am
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 29, 2013, 03:52:02 amIf it was an advertisement, it was a really bad one. (or maybe a really smart one to make the makerbot 3d scanner shine)

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 12:24:42 pm
content: And another Reference to Dave in TBHS.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 01:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 29, 2013, 04:06:09 amfrom what i gathered, you have 2 cameras, assuming they are half decent, that puts them at at least $1500 each. you just did that led/fluorescent replacement, those are around $40 ea, and it looked like you had quite a few of them. even those camera mounts you have been playing with im guessing are in the hundreds of dollars. add computers, web hosting.im thinking this is putting bens show in the range of well over $5k an episode, which seems way overpriced considering the end results.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 04:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 29, 2013, 04:06:09 amYou've carefully been avoiding to tell us your source. Any comment on that?

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2013, 05:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 29, 2013, 01:23:03 pmIf you are a good (and popular) engineer, your can charge a good hourly rate. Ben charges $125 per hour for design work, see his webpage, probably more for the show. Then add the camera team, the work for creating the video, some money for element14 managers, marketing, administration etc. and it could easily add up to $5k per show. Parts cost would be the smallest position for the bill.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:03:13 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on December 29, 2013, 04:55:46 pmDave is in the industry, he talks to people, despite the anti social engineer nerd guise. Someone probably mentioned it in passing conversation, ehh could have been anyone or anything.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:04:57 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 29, 2013, 01:23:03 pmYou aren't even close!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:06:32 am
content: Quote from: con-f-use on December 29, 2013, 04:55:46 pmNo comment.Ben maybe doesn't even know how much E14 are paying to get the editing done.(but as I said this info is old, they may do things differently now)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:13:10 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on December 29, 2013, 05:00:46 pmYes, it adds up. Ben is working relatively cheap at that price.Companies have asked me what it would cost to produce (and star in obviously) a "simple" technical video for them. And realistically, with the time involved, plus my "brand", it's not far off that $5K mark. Not that I'm taking those jobs anyway.A good polished and edited technical video is a good day or two's work, that's say 8-16 hours work. Even at Ben's bargain rate, that's up to $2K just in time right there.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 11:24:36 pm
content: ... and I would call that honestly deserved money.