Leaded equivalent to GC10? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: alanambrose
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 09:58:56 am
content: I like GC10 a lot, but wonder whether there's a leaded equivalent that has similar handling characteristics? I would like to reflow at the lower temperature of leaded. This is for fairly straight-forward prototyping purposes.TIA, Alan

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 05:16:57 pm
content: ChipQuik sells room temperature stable leaded paste as well:https://www.chipquik.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=470015(it's also available in other packaging)..Haven't tried it myself so can't recommend it one way or another.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 02:14:48 am
content: I saw some mixed reviews of gc10. Is it all that? My process in unleaded

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 08:54:57 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on July 20, 2019, 02:14:48 amIts my got to paste for all my production now. Its just so much less effort that the pastes I had used previously. It gives me good results, in our setup.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 02:21:12 am
content: I see ads for GC-18 but it hasn't been released.I saw some complaints about GC10 being too sticky. I just ordered a case for $250. Will find out the hardway.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 05:49:14 am
content: GC-10 comees out of the jar quite 'thick' feeling. IF you tryed to use it that way, you might find it hard to get a good imprint.. If i'm doing a print on the manual machine, i 'work' it.. back and forward a bit with the hard squeegee and it becomes a lot more workable. It seems to work best when its about 20C as well.Its NOT a good paste for putting in a syrnigne and trying to use manually.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 05:38:43 pm
content: I got a 5mmx5mm QFN, their new model GC18 reduces voiding down to less than 10% in 3mm x 3mm QFNs. Have you had any issues with voiding with GC10?https://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/new-solder-paste-loctite-gc-18-is-designed-for-multiple-component-sizes-and-types-40020846https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ultra-low-voiding-temperature-stable-solder-paste-gc-18-rodrigo-2/

author: Harjit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 08:58:52 pm
content: From research at this and other sites, here is my list of solder pastes - note: I have *no* experience with any of them.• Loctite GC10 <- you already know about this• Chipquik - available at DigiKey and Mouser in tubs or tube. Tub is much cheaper.TS391AX50 - this is leadedTS391SNL50 - this is lead free•https://www.cmlsupply.com/kester-ep256-lead-solder-paste-63-37-syringe-dispenser/• MG Chemicals 4860P-35G• Haven’t seen recommendations but it is two part mixture with 24 month storage life!https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/chip-quik-inc/SMD291SNL15T4/SMD291SNL15T4-ND/5648631

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 04:42:00 am
content: Quote from: Harjit on July 21, 2019, 08:58:52 pmThe chipquik PbF is rubbish compared to the GC-10. Won't ever touch it again.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 05:11:46 am
content: Thanks for letting me know! Saved me from monkeying with this as well.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 05:18:56 am
content: NB> don't try using GC10 for hand applicaiton.. its really not good at that. But very good for use with a stainless stencil.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 05:58:32 am
content: Yes I have a DEK infinity and 3 MPM UltraPrint UP2500 (dos based). We never learned how to apply paste by hand even though we made jigs and I have had alot of manual essemtec printers. We had issues of applying presure evenly for fine pitch components.How hard is it to clean off a stencil? Anything to watch when setting up reflow?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 08:14:07 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on July 22, 2019, 05:58:32 amSorry maybe a bit of a bad set of words... When i said, by 'hand', i meant, put it in a sryinge and try to appy with a needle. .even though i have a semi-auto printer, i still use my small manual one for protos as it just a lot quicker to set up for a single board..I use a hard metal edged squeegee, with no bend in it and get good results. It a bit like learning any skill. it just takes time to learn how to do it.Angle, speed, pressure .... practice, clean it off, practice again! sorry theres no real easy way to learn. ( if you figure it out, let everyone know )QuoteEasy. the semi-auto does a clean sweep each print which helps. on the manual, i do my best witht he squeegee and and remove the bulk. I used to use 'no lint' wipes but they also leave crap on the stencil, and you risk bits getting caught on apertures.. ( i have a few oddball apatures which are really bad for this ).. Now i i take the stencil to a wash down sink, and use some undlitued pcb wash with a very soft brush.. I then drop it in a custom ultrasonic cleaner with hotwater and board wash.. Final wash down with clean very hot water, Pat dry, and then 15 minutes in a dryer box. ( its just a fan heater with with a rack. )

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:13:33 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 22, 2019, 04:42:00 amI use TS391SNL50 and it's excellent for both manual application and stencil. Definitely not "rubbish".

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:15:34 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 22, 2019, 08:14:07 amMake sure you use electropolished stencils. They can be cleaned by wipes with no problems. Absolutely worth some extra expense!

author: Harjit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 06:52:37 pm
content: As someone who does very few boards, the biggest challenge with GC10 is the minimum quantity / price - IIRC, it is $100+ to start. I wish it was available in smaller batches.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: Harjit on July 23, 2019, 06:52:37 pmThat's the reason I use TS391SNL50 from Chipquik - it's a 50g jar which is very cheap (25 CAD).

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 08:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 23, 2019, 08:41:37 pmThe chipquik 'works'. GC10 works really well. Its chalk and cheese. Guess thats why its cheap.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 12:32:34 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 23, 2019, 08:44:09 pmBS. That paste is excellent! Didn't have a single problem with it - even with the paste that is well past it's "service life".

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:56:20 am
content: Quote from: asmi on July 24, 2019, 12:32:34 amHow much GC10 have you used.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:28:24 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 24, 2019, 01:56:20 amEnough to form my own opinion.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:31:40 am
content: Quote from: asmi on July 22, 2019, 01:15:34 pmYes, that goes without saying, but not for cleaning reasons. Electropolishing is done to promote better paste release when the stencil is lifted away from the PCB.

author: Harjit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2019, 08:46:25 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 24, 2019, 12:32:34 amTook a quick look at Digikey:* The GC-10 is $103 for 500g.* The lead free Chipquik is $15 for 50g* The leadfree Chipquik is $18 for 50gI'll pay $15 to $20 for 50g of GC-10.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 01:34:16 am
content: Quote from: Harjit on July 25, 2019, 08:46:25 pmtheres an opportunity there for someone.

author: spongle
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 05:25:52 pm
content: I offered 25g for $25 earlier this year with no takers, so there's another point for your pricing model

author: Harjit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2019, 08:55:21 pm
content: About a year or so ago, I asked the CML supply folks if they would carry GC10 and they said they would look into it but I haven't seen anything on their site. Not sure if this is a big enough seller to be worth it for them.