Manncorp smt pick and place learning curve - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2023, 08:57:28 pm
content: Moved into a space where they have a pick and place that is free to use. The person who bought it for the facility left, so no one knows how to use it and the guy that took over is a pure ME, so he couldn't care less for it. What is the learning curve like for a pick n place machine? Is this like a week learning process or can you learn how to use it in 2 hours or less?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2023, 03:50:30 pm
content: it depends on the complexity of the machine and the quality of the manuals. In 2007 I bought a Philips/Yamaha CSM84 P&P. It was a very simple machine, no vision, mechanical centering jaws on the nozzles. The manuals were pretty good, although not "perfect". I had it up and running in ONE WEEK and was making boards right after that. It came with some of the prior owner's board files, I picked those apart and wrote a translator to convert my CAD system's placement files to what it used.Then, in 2020 I upgraded because the Philips machine was not accurate enough for fine pitch parts. I bought a Quad/Samsung QSA30A which is a much more complicated machine. It has a fiducial camera and alignment cameras on each nozzle. The machine had been tinkered with by monkeys and had sat for six years before I got it. it did not come with any manuals, I had to scrounge those up. Also, the operator's manual was absolutely AWFUL, it was just a guide through the GUI screens, and really had very LITTLE explanation of what went on inside the program. They didn't even describe the coordinate system. The machine's coordinate syste was +X to the right +Y away from operator. But, the BOARD's coordinate system was +X to the LEFT! Geez, there is some sense to this, as the stop the board is fixed against is at the front right edge, so coords increase away from the stop. But, they need to TELL you this! That's just one example of how much vital info was missing from the manual. Fortunately, I got hooked up with the guy who did the factory training on this machine, he was invaluable!So, do they have the manuals? Can you take them home and do some reading? Is the machine a popular make/model, or something very uncommon? There is a web site smtnet that has both contract manufacturer pros and amateurs that are quite willing to help somebody get up to speed. I relied heavily on their advice back in 2007 when I was looking for a machine, and their advice was spot on.Jon

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2023, 10:41:41 pm
content: Manncorp is actually US distributor of P&P machines made by Borison. In Europe these machines are sold as Autotronik. Unless Manncorp written their own manual, Autotronik/Borison one is pretty much useless. It's just a guide through the GUI screens. I may be able to help, but what about paste print, reflow, moisture sensitive components storage and other things related to automated PCB assembly?

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2023, 10:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 27, 2023, 08:57:28 pmPick and place machines generally take a long time to understand all the details on how to get consistent results. This isn't a "I've never done SMD assembly on a PnP so I'm going to learn how to do this and produce production boards in the next 2 hours" type of thing.We have a Manncorp labeled MC384. Just importing the CAD file for a new design and programming the machine for a new type of board is easily an hour or two. This is with a machine already set up with all of the feeders onboard and the CAD file set up so it goes smoothly.When we bought the MC384, it was 2 or 3 days for an experienced tech to get the machine running correctly and train us on basic operation. Learning on your own is likely going to be a more significant investment of the time.One thing which is worth mentioning is that Manncorp has sold a lot of different types of machines over the years. If you can provide a model number off of it and age (maybe pictures), I might be able to give you some pointers.One pointer which may be useful are the videos from Atlanta Robotics. Seehttps://www.youtube.com/@AtlantaRobotics

author: huababua
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2023, 12:12:14 pm
content: I was using a Manncorp/Autotronik Machine for quite some time.To be honest: it isn’t the best machine software to get startet with. But on the other side it is better then all these Chinese machines.To answer your question:Manual is pretty shitty - so I never used it.If you are completely new to assembly machines you will have a hard time.If you are not- the basic processes are always the same.In my opinion there is no chance in learning it from the scratch within a few hours.We had like a 4h training with the technician once the machine was set up. This was the best quick start possible. You should try to convince your company to invest the money for that.Also after that training you will have lots of questions where you need to contact the tech support. Try to find a person with some knowledge.I can really recommend the guys at Autotronik.I can also offer you that you shoot me an email if there is no other way.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2023, 01:06:55 pm
content: Sorry for late response...The model number is MC400...let me know if that is a good or bad thing.If it is anything like their reflow oven, I am not looking forward to this. The menu on that thing was kind of awkward, so I can imagine what a more involved process on this thing would be like.

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2023, 10:25:42 pm
content: MC400 is a smallest of Manncorp/Autotronik type of machines with 64 feeder slots. Other than that (and perhaps a bit smaller nozzle selection), software will be the same as in MC/BS384. I'd say it's not that difficult to learn.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 12:47:41 am
content: The MC400 should be similar enough to the videos I posted to get you going.