FLIR announces the Boson module follow-on to the Tau 2 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: willm
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 01:23:18 am
content: FLIR announced a new thermal imaging module today: the Boson:http://www.flir.com/home/news/details/?ID=75067it will be either 320x256 or 640x512 resolution (12 micron pixel pitch) and comes either with or without a mechanical shutter plus one of a selection of lenses.Most notably, it is integrated with a Movidius 12-core processor for on board image processing.Small, light, and low power. There's no mention of pricing or timing of availability. It may be that if you have to ask, you can't afford it...-Bill

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 03:52:50 am
content: I'm glad that the Boson can function as a USB Video device / webcam and be controlled over USB, as this makes it so much easier to get digital video from compared to the Tau2. With the Tau2 you couldn't really use it standalone unless you wanted to deal with just a analog video output.edit: Although I'm surprised it took FLIR this long to come out with a high res 12um core, considering BAE has had a 12um 640x480 core (BAE MicroIR TWV640) for two years now.

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 10:21:08 am
content: Quote from: encryptededdy on April 19, 2016, 03:52:50 amLooks like it's not radiometric - certainly cannot find any reference to it!

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 03:54:56 am
content: Quote from: willm on April 19, 2016, 01:23:18 amIf we are lucky, it will be just a few hundred $, and be marketed to consumers "the world's first thermal webcam", targeting home users who are big on social media and webcamming. It's possible as it appears to be a USB device that will work with the PC, just like most visible-light webcams. Now right now it appears aimed at the the firefighting industry, but hopefully they will see fit to sell it to 2 markets, with 2 different marketing campaigns, and have it actually be cheap enough that the consumer market would be willing to buy it. Maybe they could even release 2 different EULAs (end user license agreements), one for the home/consumer market forbidding its use in commercial, industrial, or first-responder applications; and one that permits its use in commercial, industrial, and first-responder applications. The one that's sold for consumer use (and matching EULA would be sold for only $150 (making it the first 640x480 thermal imager that FLIR sold that not only was less than $10000, but also less than $1000); while the one sold to the commercial, industrial, and first-responder users (and its matching EULA) would cost $5000 or more. And both versions would have the EXACT same hardware, and NO FIRMWARE CRIPPLING.Only difference would be the EULA, which would give FLIR the right to sue if a firefighter bought the $150 consumer version, and used it on-duty when rescuing somebody. Many software companies already have different EULAs for different versions of software (home version which is really cheap but can't legally be used outside of hobbyist use, and commercial version which costs 100 times as much, but can be used for any application). If usage specific EULAs can be used with software, they should also be able to be used with hardware.I HOPE this is how FLIR handles it. Because I'd LOVE to get my hands on a true 640x480 thermal imager, and not have to spend over $10000 on one. Not counting the Boson, currently the cheapest 640x480 thermal imager that FLIR sells is the T420 which costs about $20000 per unit!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 04:11:55 am
content: Quote from: Ben321 on April 24, 2016, 03:54:56 amHuh? The Vue Pro, and even the Tau 2 are way below that.http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_62_710&products_id=4503

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 05:46:29 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on April 24, 2016, 04:11:55 amVue Pro is still VERY expensive. I'm hoping this Boson thing costs less than $1000.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:19:29 am
content: T420 is 320x240. Perhaps you meant T620?Unfortunately I seriously doubt that the boson 640 will come in under $1k. I would think of it as like a Tau 3 as opposed to a "super lepton". However, I think it is likely that the Boson 320 could come in at around $1k.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:42:48 am
content: I'd be highly surprised if even the lowest end version was less than a few $KLepton is good enough for any consumer type application - this is aimed at a much higher-end market.ISTR there are some export issues that kick in by the time you get towards 640x480, even at 9fps.A pair of 640x480x60fps ones with head-up display would make some awesome Predator-vision glasses though!

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:08:35 pm
content: Mike wrote:QuoteI have not found anything specification/technology specific, but I would say that it is more an inevitable consequence.The only people with need and inclination to pay for a megapixel or full HD sensor are the military, so such sensors are made to suit the military.Any device 'specially designed for military use' (UK text) then becomes subject to the source nations' Military Control List (ML for UK, ITAR for the US etc). There is no 9Hz exemption there, that is only in the dual use regulations (Wassenaar).regardsBillwww.fire-tics.co.uk

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 11:24:06 pm
content: ISTR reading some distinction in one of the regs a bit above 320x240 - I think it's close to the Therm-App's 110592 pixel figure but I don't recall what the difference is above that.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 12:23:25 am
content: Here's FLIR's presentation at SPIE 2016.https://youtu.be/JxpnM7VbJDE

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2016, 06:46:16 am
content: They are talking about low price but no numbers were given. Is low price 1k$ or 10k$ ?

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 12:52:44 am
content: Quote from: Bill W on April 25, 2016, 11:08:35 pm640x480 thermal imager T620 and T640, and even the 1024x768 T1020 thermal imager, is used in inspections of electrical equipment (substations, power plants, etc). It's not military specific, just VERY VERY VERY EXPENSIVE. I don't think that it's illegal for an individual to buy their own T1020 even (it's not even export restricted, unless it's above 9Hz), they just would need to be quite rich to be able to afford it. And yes the T6xx and T10xx series come in both 9Hz, and 30Hz versions. And no, the 9Hz version of these devices is not export restricted. Only the 30Hz one is export restricted.I don't think any model of FLIR device that is actually mass-produced and advertised on the FLIR website is export restricted solely because of its resolution. The export restricted ones all have a frame rate above 9Hz. Ones specially designed for just the military are not advertised on the FLIR website. The military-only ones are custom devices made by FLIR when the military shells out millions of $$$$$ and calls up FLIR and asks for a special equipment order. And yes, those ARE export restricted, and may even be illegal for a civilian to possess, even if they are an American citizen and never would carry it out of the country. And those are usually more than 1MP in resolution. Some may even have huge resolutions like 10MP or 15MP. Those would be the types of devices used in Predator Drones with powerful telephoto lenses that can see a pimple on the face of an enemy soldier 5 miles away.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 05:56:10 am
content: as far as I know the T620/40/60 & T1020 don't come in 9Hz versions. They only come in 30Hz.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 06:29:47 am
content: Quote from: encryptededdy on April 28, 2016, 05:56:10 amIt still wouldn't be impossible for them to make a 640x480 chip for real cheap, and then make it only 8.8 Hz like the Lepton, so that they don't need to apply for a special license when selling it, and sell it for just a couple hundred dollars as the latest in their series of FLIR One attachments. There's nothing inherantly ITAR export-restricted about a 640x480 thermal imager. And even if it was, they could just choose to sell it only to US customers so they didn't need to get a government permit to sell it, and also include a warning in the manual that comes with it, stating that you aren't allowed to take it out of the US unless you first apply for a permit.I mean that's what eBay sellers do all the time with 30Hz thermal imagers that they sell. They simply include in the item description that they only accept purchases from US residents, as they can't ship it to other countries.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 07:53:59 am
content: Just had another browse re. the resolution limit - can't find a definitive simple list but AIUI in 2009, there was a rule change so that >9fps products with resolutions above 111,000 pixels and below 310,000 pixels no longer need individual export licenses.https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/forms-documents/doc_view/630-night-vision-assessmentQuote

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 08:21:57 am
content: I have found this video with interesting info:"The Boson 320 is expected to be in the range of under $1000 and the Boson 640 is expected to cost around only $2000."

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2016, 08:49:36 am
content: Quote from: frenky on May 06, 2016, 08:21:57 amNo doubt that's in high volumes.....