Growing concerns over battery life of Apple's Macbook Pro - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 03:31:11 pm
content: http://news.sky.com/story/growing-concerns-over-battery-life-of-apples-macbook-pro-10695853Don't worry guys, batteroo to the rescue

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:03:37 pm
content: Quote"It's too hard to give an accurate estimate, so let's completely remove it?" Not even considering the fact that laptop battery capacity measurement has been perfected for a long time, this is just a big FAIL. But given Apple's voraciousness for removing features, maybe the next revision will have no battery indicator at all, and it will just shut down whenever it feels like it.Quote from: StuUK on December 14, 2016, 03:31:11 pmIronic since those make battery gauges useless by always showing 100%

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 01:53:43 pm
content: and then how do the batteroo fans measure that they are getting 800% more

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:00:20 pm
content: Knowing Apple (not an Apple fan here) their tech team gave them one figure, and marketing changed it to another. I'm seeing more and more companies really tweaking the numbers as well because of course if you want customers to buy your product, the rosier you make the numbers the better - and it only really does damage to the companies reputation if it catastrophically fails. So the difference between measured and reported values is increasing for many things: battery life, 'WIFI range', boot times etc.. As long as eventually these things do get better, slowly, no-one questions it because performing an accurate test isn't something customers have time for.A neighbour who is an Apple fanboy, used to talk about how Apple products would have 'smart charging' of batteries, so claimed that devices would charge in an hour. Of course the charging of the lipo's was the standard way - they just reduced the constant voltage phase time meaning the battery was charged to ~ 80% then stopped. This halved the 'charge time' but of course only gave people 70% capacity. Its quite clever because its never fully charged customers don't know what the actual battery life would be if it was charged to full capacity, they simply get used to it, whilst also having the gimmick of 'charges in an hour!'.As much as I like to crap on Apple, whilst they were one of the first to do these tricks, they're not alone. Samsung, Microsoft, and Google have all slackened the leash on their marketing departments. But its not all bad... the more popular something becomes, the more technology is pushed, and prices drop, so in a way, we do benefit from 'extreme-bordering-on-actively-lying' marketing.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 05:03:14 pm
content: There is no reason to buy Apple products, I have said this before and I willrant it again.The Macintosh line has for the last 10 years (Since they dropped PPC ironically, but that was not a bad move) sucked in performance (to be fair the PPC weren't great either) sucked in upgrade possibilities, and sucked in software. While you "Can" install what programs you like, it has less software support than Linux, which is an operating system often criticized for it's software support. People are more willing to dev for linux than OS/X (Although they are not that far apart) since there are more power users on Linux. OS/X doesn't even bring any interesting features to the table except for Apple's software and features which are the worst things since Microsoft Update/Windows Update (20+ years and they still haven't managed to get one that actually works, common Microsoft). The hardware is always woefully under-powered, and the look, which may look well crafted and put together, is just a facade of the craptastic Chinese manufacturing underneath.Did I mention the unreasonable price?And even the iOS line. Unlike Android you can not physically put what programs you want on the hardware you paid hundreds upon hundreds for.Let me put this into other terms.Your almost grand costing smartphone, cannot do the most basic tasks almost every computer ever built can do, run programs you want it to run.Yes, you need to jailbreak it, which THEN you can actually make use of the somehow superior processing abilities of the iPhones with things many people want to use like Emulators (on google play) Homebrew (Probably on google play) among other things.Now how about if I don't like iOS, personally have never really used it unless you count Whited00r, but if you want to do that, tough crap. No Android support here, and while it's possible, nobody can make any drivers because by the time they do, Apple already released a new one.I mean I don't get why people are buying them, seriously. You HAVE to use Apple's services (Which are almost as bad as Microsoft's) You HAVE to use Apple's approved programs which do not include a lot of stuff you would probably want (Emulators would be a big one for a lot of people), and you can't even root the device to change the operating system because nobody has invented any drivers for it.I mean with most Android devices, you can get rid of Google's services, install whatever programs you made or you like, and you can even replace the entire OS with something else if you so desire (No reason to, Android with a root can do anything RasPi linux can basically do)

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:41:07 pm
content: Why not remove the battery altogether? Now that would take courage!

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 08:30:06 pm
content: speaking of Mac Batteries - my MBP 2013 is in for repair for "swollen battery" which started to take out a lot of other things like the main board and trackpad. But since it is GLUED to the top case part - you can ONLY change battery by changing the case (or buying 3rd party batteries) - but apple is "kind enough" to replace the part for free if it was the battery (at least that is what they told me when they took the machine.So now i'm back @ Thinkpads - picked up a ThinkPad P70 Xeon w/UHD screen for about 1/2 current price - and my god that is a beast. Fast - perfect (compared to Mac) keyboard, little red mouse and all. And I'm actually impressed by the battery life and charge speed on it. Yes the charger is a brick from the 90's ... but I think I will get 3-4 hours of real work done on a single charge.I spoke to the Macbook Pro sales guys - and they said the NEW models it is pretty much 50/50 if people like them or not. I touch type so I don't give a horses a** about a display on the top row - but I do care about not having function buttons. Debugging and single stepping is a lot nicer on a real keyboard with function keys. But with 50/50 split - for Apple I would call that a disaster. It's ok for Marmite to only have 50% (or less) like the product - but for Apple it aint. I'm certain that new MBP 15" without TouchBar will arrive early next year once the initial "must have a show of piece" -QuoteI like my iPhones and do have Android but I do hate my Androids - iPhones are not hackable - but they do work. But I have noticed declining software quality on them as well.Well back to installing CCS on my new ThinkPadwith REMOVABLE battery....

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 08:44:01 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_lawClaimed measurements on consumer boxes are mostly polish. Just like gas mileage of cars.It could be that these newer CPU's have lower idle power, ratio between busy:idle is larger thus putting off any 'measurements' of battery life. Because after all.. if you let a laptop idle I'm sure it will reach 10 hours. But that is not why you spend 3k$ on a macbook.I've got a Lenovo ThinkPad P50. Basically the P70 little brother described by kaz911. Same opinion here, although I've got a lower spec machine (i7 1080p). Yet I reach 10 hours battery life easily on this machine, given that it has a 90Wh battery and about 6 to 7W average consumption with light browsing and work. It drops down to 3-4 hours if I'm compiling lots of VHDL and stuff.The charger brick is a monster, but given the long battery life I don't take it with me if I go to college for a complete day. It's just not necessary. Maybe it is if you're rendering or compiling stuff for 3 hours straight, but then any laptop will need a charger.In addition, having a docking station is wonderful to click & connect every device you may have. It has an even bigger power brick (I believe 230W) which should ensure the battery is charging even when you put the machine under full load.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:06:37 pm
content: Quote from: hans on December 15, 2016, 08:44:01 pmI have an older ThinkPad W540 which I ABSOLUTELYhatedue to the crap mouse pad they put on it. But just found out that you can get a replacement with real buttons - so I have one on the way. But requires a bit of surgery on the ThinkPad but after that it will be my LabPC as I'm slowly getting rid of my desktops as the notebooks with SSD as fast enough for most stuff.So that is the reason I (plus the price) I was hesitant about going the towards the ThinkPad P models. But seems like Lenovo found their way back to usability vs "apple inspired" mouse pad design

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:16:47 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on December 15, 2016, 08:30:06 pmThe glue is easily removed using solvents (is it really the first time in your life you have seen glue on anything?). Of course Apple don't want you to know that the things they charge you hundreds of $ for (like fragile charger cables) are easily fixed.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:27:23 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on December 15, 2016, 12:03:37 pmAre you serious? I have NEVER seen a laptop with an accurate battery-time-remaining display. Removing that particular feature will do more good than harm, IMO. (Note that Apple is not removing the charge *percentage* display.)

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 11:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on December 15, 2016, 05:03:14 pmYou can make all sorts of legitimate complaints about the closed nature of iOS, and if you don't like it feel free to use something else but the computers and desktop operating system were and still are viable. The hardware until the last few years kept pace with advances in computing power, but the pro end hasn't seen anything:http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_ProThe top end iMac is now faster than the "Pro" for many applications. Up to that refresh the desktop line was good value in line with the options from other manufacturers, but they may be leaving the performance end of the market with the withdrawal of their server products and now no updates to the trash can.You're ranting like a lunatic who hasn't even used the modern operating systems, they ran out of flashy features to add and have been silently improving the back end year on year. A nice feature is that native storage is now versioned and backed up automatically, nothing to configure, it just works. I use windows linux and OSX day to day and the clear winner for usability is OSX, some people agree and some people don't but there are few who need to shout about it so much.

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 11:23:14 am
content: I'll just link this hereAs if it's the first time a company's marketing was full of BS... Isn't it part of the job description? **cough - VW scandal - cough**Quote from: TwoOfFive on December 15, 2016, 05:03:14 pmI've always said / thought that Apple stuff, at least from the last decade or so, was a triumph of design over engineering. And that most(?) of their customers have more money than sense...Quote from: Red Squirrel on December 15, 2016, 07:41:07 pmAfter last year's "one-port wonder" Macbook... Isn't it only a matter of time, really? Just you wait...

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 11:53:31 am
content: Quote from: helius on December 15, 2016, 09:16:47 pmI know battery is easy to remove with some heat. But why waste my time and money when Apple will do it FOC?

author: aandrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 02:12:54 pm
content: Quote from: Len on December 15, 2016, 09:27:23 pmThe "time left" indicator on my 2012 11" Air is pretty damned accurate, even 4 years later.I don't know -- I am a power user. I do EDA and software development. I spent $2k on this computer (i7, 8GB, 512G SSD) and was nervous about it, but it has been *by far* the best laptop I've ever owned (and I've been using laptops since the mid 90s). People gripe about Apple's hardware but it's been a world of difference compared to the Toshibas and Lenovos and Acers. The old style Thinkpads were a close second in terms of build quality, but they were beasts compared to the thin little notebook I use every single day.I won't be buying one of the models they released this year, but perhaps they'll get their heads out their asses and I might upgrade next year. I kind of doubt it though, meaning I'll have to look for a similar model. So far no real luck.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 05:09:03 pm
content: Quote from: aandrew on December 16, 2016, 02:12:54 pmTBH I have little use for a laptop. I use one maybe 3 times a year for a RL Ludum Dare, and I absolutely hate them. They are slow, the keyboards suck, the trackpads are useless, and the screen resolution/size is rubbish. The thing isn't accurate of a high end machine, but why spend more than a high end machine costs for something I already have? If I really need power I will grab a good sized suitcase, throw my stuff in there, and haul it along.