DuraHELL batteries - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 05:54:48 am
content: We have all watched Dave's video on leaking alkaline batteries (or attempting to make them leak). I never took it seriously, as I often thought my kids had left the toys on and running the battery down which caused them to leak.That's until tonight, I was looking for some batteries, and I went into my battery storage box for disposable alkaline batteries, which are all Duracells. Out of the corner of my eyes, I noticed leakage in a brand new pack of batteries, and I took it out to dump out the leaking batteries. Out of curiosity, I decided to check all the batteries. I found half a dozen packs of batteries which are all leaking.Now, these are the premium cells such as Quantum and Ultra with 10 year guarantee, plus one pack of Coppertop, all with expiration at least 5 years out as we go through them quite rapidly in our toys. In one of the Quantum pack, almost every battery was leaking, some on both ends. The battery storage box is in a room that is temperature and humidity controlled all year long, and always out of the sun. So the leakage can only be caused by defect or poor design in the batteries. They were also bought in different time from the office supply store, so it is not a single defective manufacturing batch of batteries either.Luckily, I replaced all my DuraHELLs with Energizer Ultimate Lithium in all my handheld test equipment a while back. But for those of you still using Duracell Alkaline, please heed this warning and don't let your equipment ruined by leaking batteries.For me, I definitely will never buy another DuraHELL again. I probably could have exchanged the leaking batteries as they are all in the unopened package and many years before expiration date, but why take the chances.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 05:56:19 am
content: A couple more pictures.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 08:42:21 am
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on June 27, 2020, 05:54:48 amSomething is definitely wrong here. There's no way every pack should be like that.Maybe your office supply store isn't a diligent as you with their storage.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:26:44 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 27, 2020, 08:42:21 amYes, that's very suspicious

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:37:09 am
content: Where could you possibly store them that would excuse this leakage? The sauna?It seems that Duracell is all about giving the batteries a nice glitzy paint job to look cool and advanced, but beneath the surface... cheap, cheap, cheap.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:45:28 am
content: I've seen some storage areas that would make a sauna seem cool and refreshing.Try a sealed shipping container in full sun, for example. We use them for storing materials and tools on sites, and even here in the north of rainy old England I've experienced 50°C+ inside one of these things.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 11:50:57 am
content: I found this interesting chart from Energizer, which implies that alkaline batteries can be stored at up to 40C if you accept losing some of the stored energy over the years.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 12:12:47 pm
content: The storage isnt relevant for preventing leakage. These batteries will do this regardless of how they are stored.Duracell is a crap brand now and can't be trusted in any equipment.Buyer beware. Beware of also all the duracell rebrands.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 12:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 27, 2020, 11:50:57 amInteresting... it also implies that storing them in a refrigerator is best for maintaining capacity over time.I suppose that makes sense, lowering temperature by and large slows chemical reactions.As long as you don't cool them hard enough to form ice crystals, probably the lower the temperature the better.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 12:19:09 pm
content: Are there any "known good" brands of alkaline batteries still out there? Or is the only way forward to use lithium batteries?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 12:24:42 pm
content: I would guess the store is very aggressive in the pricing it expects from the suppliers, so the owners of the Duracell trademark, to meet that price point, simply use the cheapest OEM manufacturer to make the batteries for that chain, and then ship them by the cheapest shipping method, likely taking 8 weeks or more to travel port to port, and then gets handled only as low priority cargo, so sits cooking for a long time.As to storing in a fridge, in the military the stores had a few display fridges, which were expressly there to store batteries, as they otherwise would fail in under 6 months in the stores, where your inside temperature could easily exceed 70C on the weekends when all the doors and windows were closed. They also were used to keep things like film and photographic paper, as film was still used, both for the hospital on base, and for other purposes, along with holding all the developer chemicals for the film, sealed in plastic bags individually per pack. Another few were just used to hold rubber parts, so they would not degrade, as the stores otherwise were not air conditioned, as most things were able to survive the temperature. Only place with AC running 24/7 was the aircraft tyre store, as they could keep infrequently required tyres and parts for many years between uses, and that was always locked.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 01:46:36 pm
content: I think we all misunderstand the 10 year guarantee. Maybe they mean that their batteries are guaranteed to leak within 10 years after purchase.Anyhow, the different experiences with leaking batteries is amazing. I was lucky to get free samples of Duracells for some years and have put them in most devices. And I've seen only very few leaking. Can't say anything about Duracells currently produced.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 02:38:51 pm
content: It seems the battery manufacturers all promise to repair or replace any equipment damaged by their shoddy quality product (I guess with the prices they charge, you are paying for an "insurance policy" with every battery...).Has anyone ever made a successful claim on this kind of warranty?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 07:47:56 pm
content: We had a number of Duracell D batteries leak and destroy a Lantern and the counter top the light was sitting on. Batteries leaked and discolored a new expensive kitchen counter top. My wife contacted Duracell and all they would do is offer to replace the light fixture (Coleman Lantern). We've also had many Duracells AA and AAA leak in various devices. We've removed all the Duracells and replaced with other quality batteries.I wouldn't use a Duracell battery in anything even if they were given to me.Best,

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 07:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 27, 2020, 12:19:09 pmI am not too sure about it (how can anybody guarantee it?).. but after reading lots of reviews, I have embraced the Panasonic brand. They're not the cheapest -- but to me, its worth a little extra cost for quality.After a few years of using AA, AAA and 9V - I have had zero leaks. Not to say I wont ever, but so far so good.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 08:01:21 pm
content: I am perfectly fine with specific instructions for storage, but in that case they should spell it out and not make a vague 10 year guarantee.For those in the US, I ordered all my batteries from Office Depot via their website, so it is direct ship from their warehouse.One thing for certain, paying more for the premium version does not mean they are more leak-proof.This is the battery storage recommendation from their FAQ:We recommend storing batteries at room temperature in a dry environment. Extreme heat or cold reduces battery performance. You’ll want to avoid putting battery-powered devices in very warm places. In addition, refrigeration is not necessary or recommended.On Duralock, this is the claim that clearly does not work:Ordinary zinc-carbon batteries contain fewer active ingredients inside and lose energy over time as chemical reactions go on constantly. Unlike zinc-carbon batteries, Duracell is filled with 2 times more active ingredients, which are locked inside a unique durable construction. It prevents battery leakage and helps the battery last significantly longer. Duralock is an exclusive power preservation system, which saves energy so effectively that your battery is guaranteed to stay powered for up to 10 years in ambient storage.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 08:05:59 pm
content: NoisyBoy, funny you mention Duralock.. I just removed one from a security door entry system (it came installed unbeknownst to me) and what do you know, it was bulging and had a tiny bit of leak out of one corner.Now, it didnt puke all over everything like the main Duracell brands do, but it was trying hard!Got that POS out of there right away.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 08:43:18 pm
content: The one type of battery that is unlikely to leak is the Lithium type AA and AAA cells, but they are eye bleedingly expensive.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 09:27:32 pm
content: Duracell is garbage but I'm still amazed so many of them leaked.I gave up on alkaline batteries years ago, I use NiMH in everything now, even clocks and remote controls. I've yet to ever had one of those leak.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 09:49:59 pm
content: I don't believe there is a good brand of alkaline batteries, some are worse than others but they all leak!A couple of years ago I got really pissed with leaking batteries ruining everything they come into contact with. So i decided I can beat this by changing them all every year on my birthday. Shockingly that did not work either.So for flash lights it is rechargeables or the Milwaukee's that work with my lithium tool libraries. As expensive as those flash lights are I'm pretty sure they have already saved me money when it comes to buying new flashlights. The set back thermostat in the house had badly leaked batteries (still running of all things) so that was replaced with a round thermostat that looks like something form the 59's but is battery free. I don't even care about clocks anymore as I just look at my cell phone.Honestly I wouldn't trust an alkaline from anybody! What frustrates me is that so much portable instrumentation these days has switched over to AA batteries which seem to be the absolute worse offenders when leaking. We have a considerable number of CNC machines at work with battery backup that use D cells and have not had significant leaks there. Batteries from the same manufacture in AA size though are extremely problematic.Quote from: SilverSolder on June 27, 2020, 12:19:09 pmI'm not sure lithium batteries are the way forward as they have their own problems but they don't seem to leak. The problem with Lithium is of course the potential for fire in some chemistrys. The best path, maybe the lowest risk path, at the moment seems to be Lithium Iron chemistries. Thee are of course rechargeable, but I've seen no leaking in Primary cell lithium's either.All I can say is that there is zero love for alkalines here.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2020, 10:05:56 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on June 27, 2020, 09:49:59 pmAnything lithium ion is safe to use an ABC extinguisher on.. aka anything rechargeable is most likely lithium ion.. if its single use like little coin batteries, those are the ones to watch out forI just keep a bottle of halotron in the lab since it is safe and wont wreak anything it lands on

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 12:36:11 am
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on June 27, 2020, 05:54:48 amA battery is a curious thing. It produces electricity by running a chemical reaction inside it. But this chemical reaction needs to have an "on/off" switch. It needs to start up (as if by magic) when you try to draw current from it, and it needs to stop when you leave the battery idle. It is already quite a feat to make a battery formulation that does this.Do you know the experiment where you stick a nail and some copper foil into a lemon to make electricity? Do you think the nail stops reacting with the lemon juice when you disconnect the wires? No, of course it doesn't. Lemons are acidic and the nail corrodes, producing gas. So a battery with a shelf life of 10 years? Technological magic.Now what happens when the market demands "super", "high power", "ultra" batteries? It means they put stronger, more vigorous chemical reactions inside the battery. These reactions are eager. They don't want to wait for you to use the battery. Given half a chance they will go off whether you take electricity from the battery or not. If they can't make electricity they will make gas, and the gas pressure will force the battery to spill its guts outside the casing. This is what happens to a leaky alkaline battery. The case is sealed, but given enough internal gas pressure the seal will break and the insides will get pushed outside.The simplest solution to leaky alkaline batteries is do not use alkaline batteries. You can use lithium batteries in many cases, or you can take the green option and use rechargeable batteries. Eneloops are a fine option. Not only are they more powerful in motorized toys, you can use them over and over with no risk of leaking.If alkaline batteries are needed, then "ordinary" batteries, or "clock" batteries will have a much lower chance of leaking. I have good experience with Sunbeam alkaline batteries from Dollar Tree. Even though the price has gone up a bit from the bargain 4/$1 in the past, they are still good value and I have yet to see one leak.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 01:31:03 am
content: +1 for the Eneloops, especially the "non Pro"types (the ultra high current types are NOT as durable as the original 2000mAh formulation, so the latter are the ones to get).I guess that is another example of what @IanB is talking about above, i.e. pressing the technology to the limit to get more juice out of it has some negative side effects.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 01:44:28 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 27, 2020, 12:19:09 pmJust about anything is better than Duracell (yes, even unknown Chinese brands like "Warrior" are better than Duracell). Panasonic, Maxell, or GP (Golden Power) are consistently high quality (and I have not seen them leak yet; they eventually will like any alkalines but you at least have time to use them).Quote from: SeanB on June 27, 2020, 12:24:42 pmThe Duracell brand is owned by Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffett).

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 02:09:54 am
content: Duracell are putting themselves into class action lawsuit territory for the leaking. They don't understand the batteries are powering devices that can cost 100's of dollars- not $2 flashlights and toys. Proctor & Gamble/Buffet just ran the old brand into the ground like all mega conglomerates do.When I phoned Customer Service and flamed them, it was the usual runaround because there are so many manufacturing plants to blame, Malaysia, china, Made in USA - I've had all of them leak. They don't dare blame the cheap seal design or fix it.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 02:37:09 am
content: There already was one dated back to 2012, but the case was dismissed in 2015.I guess our best option is to vote with our wallet, to pick something that does not destroy our equipment and expensive electronics.Nimh and lithium cells are also my go-to, depending on how often they get used.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 02:41:41 am
content: Anyone ever had one of the lithium AA batteries leak? I've encountered several vintage computers that were thoroughly destroyed by leaking lithium thionyl chloride cells but I think the 1.5-ish volt cells are much more benign.I've used them in the past in a few things but was not all that impressed with the value for the price. Currently the only thing I have them in is the flashlight I keep in the emergency kit in my car.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 03:15:16 am
content: The Lithium primaries have a long calendar life span in low current applications, so I've put them in all portable meters etc. - also smoke alarms (there are 9v versions of these things).They also work well when it's really cold, for example outdoor temperature sending units during winter months.Anything that uses the batteries quickly (i.e. faster than a few years!) is not a good candidate for these things (Eneloops are your friend).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 03:17:59 am
content: I tried them in smoke alarms once years ago, they were expensive and supposed to last 10 years but I think I only got about 5 years out of them before they started beeping. Now I use NiMH in my smoke alarms too, when the first one starts to beep I swap in the spare and then cycle each through the charger, I typically get about 9 months out of the batteries I'm using.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 03:44:46 am
content: Most of my alarms are powered from the mains, with the battery acting as backup only, so chances are I'll see the full shelf life...Even for purely battery powered ones, 5 years is ok by me. That's still a lot of messing around with step ladders etc. saved.

author: JimS
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 03:51:36 am
content: I quit using Duracell's around two years ago.After having to replace the furnace thermostat, a mini mag light and a Direct-TV remote.Found leaking ones in my parts storage cabinet/drawer.Cleaned up the mess made in customer owned equipment.Purged all Duracell's and I now use Panasonic / EverReady industrial or Ray-o-Vac.I mostly use AA, AAA or 9V for home and work.I found Digi-Key a good source and sometimes I use Mouser.I suspect that they made a change to the formula used and/or the case design.Or as another poster commented, went to the lowest bidder.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 07:39:47 am
content: It seems like alkalines really started leaking a lot more after they all switched to mercury-free formulations. Prior to that I'd had some of them go many years without leaking. Not too long ago I found one of those green Radio Shack 9V batteries in something, I suspect it was the original from 1989-1990 when the thing was made, it was dead but still hadn't leaked.

author: cliffyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 08:21:03 am
content: I have been using Amazon's "Amazon Basics" house brand AAs & AAAs alkaline cellss (Cs, Ds and 9V batteries too) for a couple years now--never a problem and they last in service as long as anyone's.A while back, in complete violation of what my gut was telling me¹, I bought a pack of Harbor Freight's "Thunderbolt" AA cells--complete junk, the first two from the pack were dead, of the remaining more than half were dead. Closer examination revealed almost all had "frosting" around the bottom (-) seals. Returning them I found that 2 of 3 packs on the rack were showing the same signs of leakage. Cheap alkaline button cells (CR-2032, -2025, -2016, LR-44, etc.) are pretty much the same, all leaking when you buy them...--------------------------------------------------¹ - I have found that if you do what your gut tells you, you might be wrong--however if you do not follow it's guidance you probably will be wrong. So the real choice is between "maybe" being wrong and "probably" being wrong.Sort of like buying "the cheapest there is": Doing so will very likely get you the "cheapest there is"--it's not always true, but it is true often enough that one should pay heed.Many years back IBM salespeople, while helping customers deal with sticker shock, always stated: "No one was ever sorry they bought the best there is."

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 12:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: cliffyk on June 28, 2020, 08:21:03 amThe problem with Duracell is that their marketing department is very good - they understand that a slick looking product sold at a premium price will, to most people, look like "the best there is" and people will choose that product over cheaper ones that are actually better!Economists have a word for this, it is called the Veblen effect.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 06:35:11 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 28, 2020, 03:44:46 amYeah if I had to mess with ladders I'd probably see things differently. I can reach all of my smoke alarms standing on my feet except for the one in the guest room downstairs which has a slightly higher than normal ceiling, I need a step stool for that one. I prefer the mains powered type but my house was built in 1979 and has only one of those, I later added a battery powered alarm in every room.

author: George Edmonds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 07:23:58 pm
content: HiI have seen exactly the same behaviour, the worst part is that they also appear to out gas a corrosive and conductive gas as well as leaking.George G6HIG in Dover

author: CDaniel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 07:38:26 pm
content: Probably they did the external metal shell thinner and thinner , or cheaper alloy , as you can imagine the "economy" in large volume is huge . And for the majority of customers that don't keep them for long this is not a noticeable issue

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 09:20:01 pm
content: Or they are trying to figure out how much cheaper they can go to maximize profit before ruining the brand. Anyhow, I prefer store brand alkalines from Aldi, IKEA and Lidl because they offer the best performance to price ratio and don't leak more often than premium priced brands. AFAIK, there are only a few battery manufacturers left and brands simply order batteries with specific specs, similar to component suppliers in the automotive industry.

author: cliffyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 09:27:54 pm
content: Quote from: CDaniel on June 28, 2020, 07:38:26 pmMost consumer grade alkaline cells now have plated steel shells and end-caps--not a metal known for it's exceptional corrosion resistance...

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 10:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2020, 09:20:01 pmLooks like they have already managed to ruin their reputation among professional/knowledgeable people... how long before it becomes general knowledge, and thereby ruins the brand?

author: cliffyk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2020, 11:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2020, 09:20:01 pmYup,East Penn/DekaandJohnson Controls(nowClarios) make 60%+ of the common "brands" of automobile batteries available in the U.S. Throw inDelcoandExideand you've got 90% covered...

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 02:05:09 am
content: I'm finished with Duracells after a near new package had a bunch leaking. My daughters eagle eyes spotted it. Costco refunded the money, and I decided to go eneloops. Sadly I forgot the Duracells in the Motorola walky talkys which were leaking badly when I finally found it. Deoxit brought one back to life, the other:-( You can't give me free Duracells. They're trash.One exception, HJK has cut a bunch of 9 volts apart, he points out that the Duracells appear better built, and I use them in my smoke alarms and have yet to see one leaking.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 02:29:09 am
content: Quote from: bc888 on June 29, 2020, 02:05:09 amYou should claim your free repair/replacement from Duracell...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 03:21:41 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 28, 2020, 10:49:33 pmSo long as their legal defense costs them less than making decent batteries they'll just keep putting, "New formula, garanteed not to leak!" on the packages and the public will keep right on buying.

author: zitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 06:29:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 27, 2020, 08:42:21 amNope; I agree the brand is garbage.I have a pack of new from Costco Quantums.... and my wife was one the phone with Google fiber...complaining that she couldn't get the TV box to change channels. She confirmed she had replaced the batteries.After sitting there listening to her fight with the phone tech... I told her to hand the controller to me. There was not red button flash when a button is pressed. I opened the battery door; and one of the Quantiums had corrosion on it from the package causing to be insulated from the battery terminal.I went to the package; and grabbed another battery with the same problem.That is ridiculous; and simply put... I have better things to do than deal with batteries corroding in packages from a "reputable" manufacturer. Good buy Dur-a-hell!

author: masterx81
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 08:44:38 am
content: Also here, stop alkalines... Only eneloop (normal, not lite and not pro) aa and aaa. For 9v nimh energizer, and tried also with good success "9"v bonai li ion (if isn't a problem with the device the lower voltage)

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 12:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: masterx81 on June 30, 2020, 08:44:38 amHow long do those Bonai 9V things stay charged (i.e. what is their self discharge rate like)?

author: masterx81
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 01:31:37 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 30, 2020, 12:57:00 pmSeem quite low, put one on my "second choice" meter last year, still alive. Ni-mh lasted at best 6/8 months between charges. Li-ion must have a low self discharge compared to no-mh (excluding eneloops, that have also a quite low self discharge). My meter sign low battery at around 7.2v, the bonai are rated at 7.4v, so are ok. They have also internal overcharge protection (not tried overdischarge). Tested them with "smart" 9v charger (opus BT-C900, that's not ideal as stop the charge using the internal protection of the batteries) and the amperage is the same reported. By now i'm satisfied. I'll let you know if the meter goes in flames due to the batteryNow that you ask me, i have bought an electronic load, i can try to measure the remaining charge of the other bonai that i have charged and stored last year.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 01:55:14 pm
content: energizer lithium. work like a champ

author: SG-1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 09:30:40 pm
content: Never had a Varta brand leak. Used them in my camera flashes & other devices many years ago.Have not used them in years.

author: chronos42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 09:41:48 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2020, 09:20:01 pmThe Lidl AEROCELL branded AA and AAA batteries with the "made in Germany" notice on the package are actually manufactured by Varta, these batteries are really good, I never had any problems.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 03:06:19 am
content: Yike, I hope the corrosion did not damage your meter. Time for lithium.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 04:17:27 am
content: Their products simply aren't fit for use in anything more expensive than dollar store flashlights and the like.

author: duckduck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 08:40:34 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on June 27, 2020, 09:49:59 pmI recently joined Team Makita and the Makita LED flashlight with a 5.0 Ah Li-ion pack is the greatest thing ever.EDIT:Also, after reading posts by some wise old folks I have swapped out the alkaline 9V batteries in my Fluke DMMs for NiMH 9V batteries and I sleep better now.

author: chronos42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 08:51:07 am
content: I have introduced two "battery days" per year, every 6 months all batteries in all battery-operated devices will be checked. I have already been able to prevent damage several times with this method. I have found some batteries that are started to leak, in most cases cheap chineese brands that came with cheap chineese test instruments. I do not only a visual inspection, but also a load test. This also brought sometimes interesting results. At the last inspection I have checked 4 AA batteries from a test instrument, which was suddenly not working as it should. All four batteries were from the same package and still had 4 years left until the expiration date. Three batteries were in perfect shape and fully charged, one was completely dead and showed -0,2V Volts without load. I suspect a manufacturing defect of this battery. A perfect candidate for leaking. This instrument worked without problems a few weeks ago. Within a short time this batterie died without any external reason.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:02:23 am
content: I suspect that the decline of the Duracell battery (I now refer to them as Corrodacells) over the past fifteen-twenty years or so is a combination of chemistry changes due to environmental regulations and cheapened construction thanks to optimization by bean counters who look at the bottom line rather than the big picture. I too have had 'new' ones leaking and spewing white fuzz in their packages well before their printed expiration dates, and have also had to discard flashlights and the like due to the damage caused by their corrosive vomit. On the other hand, I'll occasionally find something that's had the batteries in it for decades, cringe as I open it, and find that they're dead as door nails, but still sealed up tight. They truly did make 'em better back in the day. I've seen Energizer alkalines leak, too, though not as frequently as Corrodacells. I don't trust the bunny's batteries anymore, either.For most things now I've gone to Eneloops or similar - don't have enough personal experience with them yet to be certain, but nearly a decade into using them NONE have leaked so far. It's nice to be reasonably confident that my photo flashes, differential probes and other small electronic devices are probably safe from battery barf.

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2020, 03:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on June 27, 2020, 12:19:09 pmIf Philips still makes these alkalines I'll buy some. Found these in a remote for a piece of equipment I bought. I guess OCT 2000 is the expiration date as usual but guess it could be the production date, either way they're at least 20 years old, hasn't leaked and still measure 1.25V. When left for years, which I suspect is the case here, batteries in remotes usually leak.

author: MiroS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 10:33:27 am
content: Quote from: chronos42 on June 30, 2020, 09:41:48 pmI had bad experience with "made in Germany" AEROCELL or Varta from Lidl. I am not buying anything anymore with Varta brand on it.For batteries I stick now with three brands only: IKEA Alkalisk, Panasonic (garanteed 10 years in storage) and MARQUANT from Jula store. They do job for me without any issue. They have capacity and last long, no leakage so far (used for last 6-7 years ).I am starting to substitute bateries with IKE LADDA 2450 mAh, but only for current hungry devices like FK-289.I tried to use TRONIC from LIDL, but after some tests it looks to me like a junk, only bad experience with them.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 05:07:15 pm
content: Well, Duracell Procell claimed my Fluke 54-II with a expensive repair I still have to do. It also almost claimed my 289 if I didn't catch at time, this back in 2010.Throw them to the place were they belong, the trash and bought Panasonic Evolta's. Till today still didn't saw them leak, three packs later. One pack the expiration date is gone, they still have charge and are still used (not in the DMM, they were retired for Eneloop's in 2013) in other equipments.Currently my Fluke 87V had come with an Energizer, that thing is out and away from the DMM, only put inside when needed. Still need to buy a Evolta 9V for it. Around home, Eneloop's for me and my stuff (Eneloop Pro AAA on the TI89 Titanium with a Panasonic SR44 Silver Oxide and a pack of 4x Eneloop Pro AA for my needs currently) and Panasonic Rechargeable (in some markets it's called Evolta Rechargeable, in China/HK is just Rechargeable) for the kid's toys, remotes, portable lantern, weight scales, etc.GP is also very good, I have a close friend here that I converted to Rechargeable and non for the GP ones (as a lab mice for me to check if they could be an alternative for some use cases), and still until now, almost 2 years later he talks wonders of them.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 08:50:19 pm
content: Funny you guys mention VARTA batterieshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/just-gonna-take-this-dead-9v-battery-apar-what-the/msg1228680/#msg1228680Anyways, personally i've never had an alkaline leak except for duracells. And the fact that they so shamelessly brag about their non-leak this and long-life that on a package full of leaky cells just proves that their entire brand is just a cash cow by now.Me being a cheapskate i don't even use alkalines that often, the zinc stuff works well enough for me and doesn't even live long enough to leak, imo. And i've never seen a 9V battery leak ever until i entered this thread.But if i need something to stay up for a long time i'll chuck in some cheap alkalines.Also this thread made me panic a bit and i checked my precious TI-82 STATS just to make sure it's not in danger, but since i'm not using duracells it's fine. Rather i have some "GP Super" alkalines, really splashed out on those.Like 99% of all leaking cells i've witnessed are Duracells, it's ridiculous. I guess that's one upside of being a cheapo, because duracells are just too damn expensive for meBigClive has done tests on the expensive and cheap battery capacity and some of the cheapo brands are not far off the expensive stuff.Spoilershe had a DOA duracell.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 09:10:08 pm
content: Bonus nachos, from almost 10 years ago no less! And guess what, the Duracell underperformed.Funny how Dave regards Duracell as a "quality brand", i wonder what he thinks of them now.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2020, 09:40:59 pm
content: I once bought one of the larger "Maglite" torches for £15, I think. After having used Duracells in it for a while, one day I opened the cap to replace them and they'd leaked EVEYWHERE, ruining the torch. I contacted Proctor and Gamble, submitted a claim for £80 (around the new price of a replacement Maglite) and they paid up!(Attached, the damage caused.)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 12:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: eti on September 03, 2020, 09:40:59 pmI guess they've done the match and it's cheaper to pay up than to manufacture a decent battery.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 01:06:05 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 04, 2020, 12:35:39 pmMost people probably don't send in a claim. So, they can keep selling garbage. Only informed consumers (like us, reading this board) will know to avoid this brand, so it can go on like this for a long time.

author: AMR Labs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 02:24:29 pm
content: I am surprised nobody here seems to have mentioned the word "counterfeit", or perhaps I missed it by only quickly skimming through this thread.In my opinion worsening battery quality of ALL the well known brands is not the biggest issue, which I am 100% sure is happening, but the main reason for this explosion of battery leakage across the board is rather related to the chinese counterfeit batteries that are flooding the global markets for some time. Nowadays you really never know what you are getting, no matter where you are buying them on the planet.For some years now I only use Panasonic/Eneloop NiMH's, which also cuts down on the recurring battery cost issue and helps avoid pollution. It's crazy just trying to imagine how many batteries get thrown out daily into the garbage in the US alone.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 06:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: AMR Labs on September 16, 2020, 02:24:29 pmIn my case, the leaking Duracells were bought at retail stores like Costco etc., there is nearly zero percent chance that they are counterfeit. The simplest explanation that fits the facts is that quality has dropped unacceptably low, most likely due to cost savings.

author: AMR Labs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 07:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 16, 2020, 06:44:09 pmWith all due respect, how can you be so sure? I doubt Costco buys directly at the Duracell factory door, or if they are really picky about where the batteries really come from specially if they can make a couple of extra cents. There is still a good chance the chinese counterfeit stuff can get in even at the very large scale distribution chain level. Its not just newspaper stands or corner convenience stores that get their batteries from alternate "lower cost" sources. Although I have to admit that poor quality manufacturing and control must also have suffered and certainly plays a part as well. Millions of dollars involved either way.But I wonder in any case how come that this poor quality situation has been allowed to get so bad, and still no one is raising their voices publicly, a 60 Minutes investigation, or the government taking some kind of action. Everybody needs to use batteries, and being the US such a litigious society where almost any problem is solved by suing, I would have expected a class action suit to be brought forward against the battery manufacturers ages ago since this situation started to escalate. So after they loose the case, if there is a chance for any affected person to get $150 or so from a compensation fund to cover the damage that the leaking batteries caused him or her, who's not going want to sign up.Any lawyers on this thread?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 08:13:38 pm
content: I think the problem is they're too big to sue in a class action. Revenue $68B in sales, and $4B profit last year, CEO $17.3M in pay. As if he gives a rat's ass. It would be risky as they surely have an armada of lawyers in house.I've had Duracells manufactured in USA, china, Malaysia - all leak. That's from three plants. All purchased from various legit stores. I'd welcome counterfeits because they'd work better than the garbage Procter and Gamble (edit: now Berkshire Hathaway) is peddling.Procter & Gamble's entire business model is about making products as cheaply as possible and selling for max price. Run a brand into the ground, then sell it off or kill it. I boycott all their junk, especially overpriced Gillette shaving, hand lotions with soybean oil, Tide laundry detergent with unknown chemicals that gives people a rash.The funny thing is they just keep doing cost improvements and further ruining products.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 08:22:47 pm
content: FYI, P&G sold Duracell to Berkshire Hathaway in 2014.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 08:46:47 pm
content: When did they start leaking?I've run into old Duracells that are 10 years old and doing fine. I thought it coincided with themercury phase-outbut this was in 1996 for watch batteries and not sure when it affected alkaline batteries and their construction.Next was the attack on using bitumen for the seal but it seems to be still there from batteries I've taken apart.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 09:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on September 16, 2020, 08:46:47 pmI've noticed that Corrodacells seem to have gotten orders of magnitude worse leak-wise over the past ten-fifteen years. Older ones were much better in that regard. Back in the 90s they seemed pretty much bullet proof; now they leak while still in the damned package! As a side note, I recently started cleaning out (finally) the POD that I got on site in 2011 when I started the home renovation. Inside was this funky squarish lantern thing powered by three D batteries. I picked it up and thought "Well, this thing will be toast inside", and tried turning it on. I was shocked when light emerged. Opened it and it has Energizer D cells in it; didn't look at their vintage as I started using it as I unloaded things in the dark but it has likely been in there since late 2011, so it's been going through cycles of baking in the summer and freezing in the winter for close to eight years now. I was surprised enough that the batteries hadn't puked their guts out, nevermind that they are still working.I think we can mostly safely say as far as alkaline batteries, they really did make them better back in the day.-Pat

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 10:15:01 pm
content: Quote from: AMR Labs on September 16, 2020, 02:24:29 pmWhen I had my final instance of puking Duracells, I checked for this. There is info on the web on how to check for an authentic Duracell. They are indeed counterfeited often.However, in my case, they were authentic and total crap. I'm convinced, we are better off having the counterfeits in there instead of legit Duracells. Got a source for getting these?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2020, 10:37:27 pm
content: Quote from: AMR Labs on September 16, 2020, 07:33:05 pmCostco will have negotiated a deal directly with Duracell, because they move so much product and will want the best prices and best quality (yes... I know).QuoteI reckon the problem is that we, the long suffering consumers, are "split up" - most of us just throw away the leaky batteries, or perhaps we make use of the replacement guarantee - in either case, we as individuals don't think this is enough of a problem to worry about, in the bigger scheme of things.I think Duracell is exploiting this fact and pushing the quality as low as possible - they can always hide behind their guarantee (knowing that few will bother to claim) and argue that consumers are not damaged - in the same sense that a reckless taxi driver could argue that his insurance covers his passengers!

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 07:01:21 am
content: Don't forget toys and other products that drain batteries long before they get a chance to leak. People who buy them only look for something that will last the longest because buying more batteries is a bother.And since Duracells claim to last, and whatever other whiz-bang stuff they do, people buy them.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 05:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on September 17, 2020, 07:01:21 amIt's too easy to forget this point: marketing works, and unsophisticated (electronically-speaking) customers buy into gimmicks like "freshness seals" and "power meters". The actual quality is something you can't see and is therefore a harder sell on a store shelf.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2020, 06:19:43 pm
content: Quote from: helius on September 17, 2020, 05:40:00 pmAt some point, though, a reputation will get damaged. E.g. a loved one left stranded on a dark road, and the flashlight you considerately placed in their car's glovebox doesn't work because of leaky crappy batteries that you thought was top drawer material...

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2020, 12:14:52 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on September 17, 2020, 06:19:43 pmThis "some point" has been over 10 years in the making and is still nowhere to be seen.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2020, 02:20:21 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on September 21, 2020, 12:14:52 pmYeah, I think they are pretty immune for all the reasons discussed earlier - the general public has no way of knowing. But we know! - so we can avoid them like the plague.If only there was a way to test leakage performance reliably, that would make a huge difference...

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2020, 05:33:32 am
content: My container with all my cheap digital scales has the AAA cells stored in it. Maybe not my greatest move, but at least they were out of the scales.Here we see four year old Duracells vs. dollar store Panasonics.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 02:30:00 pm
content: Is it 2025 yet? This is in a $5K+ LCR meter. Thanks Duracell!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 04:31:26 pm
content: Maybe Duracell simply uses a different calendar from the rest of us - so 5 years in their world is like, 5 months in ours?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 05:07:11 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on October 14, 2020, 02:30:00 pmI guess I had the same batch as well, as they did the same. Also 2025, and a pair in my multimeter started to leak as well, so lucky for me I got there in time, and just had to do the acetic acid wash, then the alcohol wash and leave to dry. Going to use the ultra cheap cells from the China shop, those likely will not leak, seeing as they have so little active material in them.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 05:48:40 pm
content: Corrosion at the + terminal is especially weird, since that terminal extends all the way around the case. The seal is at the - end which is where liquid usually leaks from. It would have to leak under the wrap from the - to the + side.Peeling off the wrap on a Duracell reveals that the outer seal/isolator is made from kraft paper. That must be great for reducing production costs; other brands have rubber or vinyl.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 06:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: helius on October 14, 2020, 05:48:40 pmYou're right--the leakage appears to be from the negative of the adjoining cell. Fortunately this was in the middle of the pack since the battery holder is a relatively obscure 3-cell internal tube-style holder with a push/turn cap on the outside of the case. The holder isn't sealed and if the electrolyte had dripped out onto the main circuit board, there'd be trouble. I wonder if in that case Duracell would have paid for IET to fix it.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2020, 09:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: SG-1 on June 30, 2020, 09:30:40 pmThey leak too, I found two of them last week, they were in a remote with lcd. One was fine, the other leaked on the negative side.All brand leaks, maybe duracell more, but every alkaline has this issue.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 06:31:26 pm
content: Quote from: mcinque on October 14, 2020, 09:12:44 pmI would disagree. You are correct that they may all leak but duracells are so much more prone to leakage.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2020, 07:50:46 pm
content: It's funny that the cheap dollar store batteries seem less prone to leakage. Maybe no active ingredients inside?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2020, 08:15:20 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 15, 2020, 07:50:46 pmThey probably do have less active ingredients inside, the logic works.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2020, 08:30:06 pm
content: part of something everyone should do is test the quiescent current draw of your battery powered expensive tools, particularly ones off ebay, because the soft switch can be fucked up. A good soft switch should be around 5uA draw, slightly more with a RTC.Any alkaline battery will get messed up if the quiescent draw is too high and you deep discharge it (and maybe even nimh too). Playing battery bingo will not save your expensive stuff if it has a defect in the soft start transistor. And some stuff is not engineered properly also.Doing this simple test with a microamp meter can save you thousands if you like portable equipment. Once you get into the C/D batteries, its less important, but with 9V, AA, AAA.. its critical. Scopemeter on 4 C's is probobly OK, but fluke 289 or expensive LCR meter on AA's is gonna trash pretty much anything if its leaking. We are at greater risk because if ebay purchases.The way to do it is to take a piece of paper and glue two conductors to it and stick it in the battery cavity between the battery and a contact and hook it up to a microamp compatible meter and test the draw when its off. Now microamps are easy to measure. Just make sure the meter turns on with the current meter in the circuit, because its easy to have it not connected.Also, mechanical switches could be contaminated from previous battery leaks and present a leakage. Don't trust it because it has a mechanical switch.And keep in mind how bad soft switches were, some people never learned, i.e. printers stealing energy. Imagine those engineers were tasked with making a soft switch for a multimeter.And, you can also have a low impedance fault while the meter is turned on, which can easily hammer the battery by drawing 200mA to heat a transistor, whereas normally it should draw 20mA, but still be functional. Deadly to intermittent use 9V batteries, which are common on multimeters. Perfectly fine when you draw the expected 10mA, but when you turn it on, it ends up drawing half an amp unknown to you, it will cause the battery to explode after a few cycles.But, since current is not measured, and you have it hooked up to some weird 9V meter (i.e. DE-5000) that you power on once a season, you end up killing the batteries WHILE THE METER IS ON and it looks like the battery died because 'it sucks', because you drew a heavy load from a 9V for 30 minutes a month because of a undetectable internal fault (particularly with heavily insulated rubber coated meters where the heat will take forever to escape and will be unnoticeable because you will be long done with the measurement and put the meter into an insulated pouch when you are done measuring the odd inductor).Deciding to whack in 18650's to power a 10mA load is NOT the correct engineering solution, you are potentially hiding a problem!!It's similar to a bad AC repair job, where you do not find the leak or purge the system from moisture or follow proper procedures, if you ever worked on a car air conditioner.Restoring leaked equipment is a difficult process, you need a ultrasonic to do a good job IMO, + I recommend dremel rotary brush tools, vinegar, Distilled water wash, etc. And you typically need to replate contacts. There is a good chance if you did a 'scrub the contact with a screw driver' repair job on a leaked battery that there is a impedance shift in the unit because of corrosive mist, vapors, etc. And you can have a humidity and temperature dependent leakage problem once the circuit is soiled. You can't trust your eyes to do this repair, it needs to be measured for leakage. Thankfully its simple once you understand the procedure.I don't like how people want to shift the industry to change battery chemistry and capacity and force changes to accommodate for broken equipment and poor quiescent current and unnecessarily high current draw designs. Wrong tool for the wrong job and being and idiot IMO, in the end you are accommodating for bad efficiency. Do we need the same problem as MS-WORD in the micropower electronics world? Where you need a 2GHz processor to run a word processor program?? It's not M$ windows! Think high efficiency ASM code, not high level inefficient crap thats poorly coded. Lazy and dumb engineers will use higher capacity insensitive batteries and rechargeable batteries to cover their tracks. Eventually you will need a nuclear reactor and a liquid cooling system to run a 3.5 digit meter.I would like to see people measure the draw of the devices that are making everyone start to hate primary cells. I don't want a pouch cell soldered into my DMM. I want to be able to go to the store and buy a pack of batteries in 5 minutes if the need arises and forget about it. The art of electronics 3rd edition has a chapter on soft start switches everyone needs to read.Fluke 187 - 9V battery. Fluke 289 - 6AA cells. WTF. I am guessing at this rate the future fluke 387 will have a 30Wh LIPO in there.Also, try setting a primary lithium on fire some time, cut it open and spit in it. It burns like a road flare. I don't like this. It is not necessary to put that in a fucking wall clock.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 12:41:02 am
content: There is something hilarious about seeing them do this right inside the original packaging which advertises a big 10 year guarantee.It really is an oddball thing though as it's so sporadic. Like I've had some cells do it in a device (check your Wii remotes if you don't play very often!) so I always attributed it to a very small discharge that ends up killing the cell completely dead. But seeing it happen right in the package proves that it can happen even with zero discharge.I imagine there are lot of factors at play, both QC and environmental. Perhaps lot of cells just end up not having the same quality as the other, then couple that with some environmental factors and it decides to happen.I also found some super old nicad cells in a box the other day, at least 20 years old, and a few of them started to crystalize/leak too. I would be curious to test the ones that look ok. I put those cells through a lot of abuse as a kid. Short circuits etc.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 03:53:21 am
content: like I said, measure the quiescent current draw. Those are cheap plastic toys that might get zapped alot, and they rely on high impedance transistors to act as a switch, if you are playing with them in a carpeted room, you might be zapping the battery contact when you switch batteries, causing the pass transistor to sustain damage.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 12:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 16, 2020, 08:30:06 pm^THIStotally agree, all the leaks I had were from devices with soft switch of with some uA draw.with more than a battery in the battery compartment and more than few uA current draw, one battery is gonna deplete always more than another, and then polarity inversion begins or the other batteries starts to charge it: this leads to internal pression rise andoften(but not always) subsequent leaks. It may depends by the amount of the residual charge of the other batteries.this is the "real" risk in my opinion; different thing it's a battery that leaks just in the original packaging after some months, it's just a time bombmaybe there was some changes in the security pressure relief valve/system: or the cells in the '90s were insecure with no pressure relief system and if accidentally charged could really kill someone (but no leaks!), or they changed something in them forced by security (or envionmental, like RoHS) requirements, ruining the "acceptable" seal that existed in the '90s making them too prone to leaking...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 01:37:39 pm
content: I can't confirm the "quiescent current" hypothesis. Maybe it increases the possibility of leaking, but I've seen several leaking batteries also in devices with nice old fashioned switches. And the switches were fine.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 02:33:55 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 17, 2020, 01:37:39 pmHow old were those batteries laying in the battery compartments?Seems a "discharge problem" or "unused for too long" issue.I am convinced that there are only 2 possibilities for battery leaking:1. internal pressure rising spontaneously in unused batteries due to natural chemical reaction (like already said by another forum member), with subsequent sealing/security valve failing2. quiescent current that deplete one battery that starts being charged from the others, with subsequent internal pressure rise and the same conseguences as point 1What do you think about this?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 03:15:55 pm
content: Two or three years. Another observation is that AA and AAA are more prone to leaking than 9V PP3, and C and D cell are least effected.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 03:56:31 pm
content: The "leaking soft switch" is an additional risk with alkalines, but it isn't the only way they fail and leak.We have several examples in this thread of batteries leaking in their original packaging, long before the shelf life date. Then there are all the examples of leaky cells in old fashioned flash lights and other products that have mechanical switches.Basically, there's no way round the fact that these batteries are just not very good.I use Eneloop NiMH or Duracell Rechargeable (which are re-badged Eneloops, apparently), and for smoke detectors, handheld DMMs and other tools etc. I just use lithium cells - job done!And yes, if I had a wall clock, it would also get a lithium cell. It doesn't really matter how cheap a device is: I bought it for a reason, and I want it to work reliably for a long time!

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 03:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 17, 2020, 03:15:55 pmhmm, seems the seal failed to contain internal pressure. Like it was said in this post, battery it's chemistry and chemical reactions take place inside them even when they're not used, with possible internal pressure rise.not using them = internal pressure rise due to chemical reactions going on > sealing fail > leakusing them too much (too much current drain) = makes them hot > internal pressure rise > sealing fail > leaktoo hot environment = internal pressure rise > sealing fail > leaktoo cold = poor performanceold battery = aging of the seal > failing to contain internal pressure > leakin every case is a fail for an alcaline.QuoteI thought that there may be a energy density reason behind this but this rough calculations says not (correct me if I'm wrong).AAA = 1.150mAh in 3.9ml = 295mAh/mlAA = 2.250/2.500mAh in 8.3ml = 271mAh/mlC = 7.800mAh in 26.5ml = 294mAh/mlD = 17.000mAh in 55.8ml = 304mAh/ml9V battery has very few mAh and it's often double sealed (6AAA inside), in my opinion too low energy density inside and the double seal helps a lot.Maybe in C and D the sealing glue has much more surface due to bigger size, and the pressure is distribuited onto a higher surface and it's better contained?Or maybe AAA and AA are simply the most used type and our perception is that they leaks more.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 04:01:02 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 17, 2020, 03:56:31 pmSame here.A conspiracy theorist would say that alcaline battery leaks are intentional to make us spend more on lithium

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 04:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 17, 2020, 03:56:31 pmI tried a lithium battery in my wall clock once and it didn't work right. I don't actually recall what problem it had but the mechanism didn't like the higher voltage. I use a NiMH cell now and recharge it annually.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 05:11:34 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 15, 2020, 07:50:46 pmI think they're mostly carbon-zinc batteries. The only alkalines I see are ACDelco (and more than $1) and I haven't tried them yet, although the online testing reviews seem to be favorable. For low-draw miscellaneous stuff I've been using Sunbeam (2-pk of 9V for $1) or Panasonic branded cells and so far they work and don't leak. What is so aggravating is that the stuff that gets damaged is the 'better' equipment that I didn't want to cheap out on--so I put the 'good' cells in them.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 07:43:00 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 16, 2020, 08:30:06 pmI can't accept that the cell should leak just because it is discharged. Some applications DO have a constant draw and that is why the battery is there. And in any case, most of my 'leakers' have been in devices with no possibility of a draw--and some of the leakers were not even discharged, as the device was still working.QuoteThe 289 has a lot more stuff than a plain DMM, like IR communications, Lo-Ohms, bright backlight, etc. Mine actually was killing batteries and losing its memory, so it went off to Fluke. No leaks, though. Now it is back and has worked for some time on the 6 AA Energizers they installed. I don't mind 6AAs if they actually last a while. It isn't like the meter would be much smaller or lighter without them.QuoteIf you were to burn the average plastic wall clock, I think the clock would give off more smoke and release more heat than the battery. I haven't cut any in half an spit in them, but they seem to be one of the most well engineered and documented products out there. Read this, especially regarding the PTC protection and pressure vents. I've not heard of them starting any fires.https://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2020, 08:09:36 pm
content: You still need to test all devices to make sure, its malfunction which causes draw. Unless you test the device you don't know if a eBay purchase gave you a partially fried soft switch pass transistor that drains 5 to 50 times the expected quiescent current while powered off!Any battery will leak when over drained. It leaks more when you drain it fast but the idea is.. you should replace them at a reasonable voltage under nominal. If you are still expecting good chances of not leaking because your device decides to extract energy from them at 0.8 volts.. its not a good idea to try to squeeze that out of them (if the batterizer actually worked well, it would cause mayhem in terms of battery leakage). What the premium batteries are supposed to do is offer more useful life for power devices in the nominal region (extend that platue of 1.2V). They do not vent the gas and as the electrolyte is spent the gas pressure rises...As dave jones has shown, using the batteries under nominal.. does not save much. There is not much capacity left there. It is not worth to squeeze them dry for the extra 5-10% (if that, usually at this voltage range the device starts to 'suck' by having a dim display, being quiet, etc.. so its essentially crippled. You could say for the most part you are squeezing almost nothing out of the battery, and you are also putting up with a improperly functioning device in terms of UI, accuracy, etc. Even good DMM and stuff often have low battery voltage related errors).And try lighting a wall clock on fire with a small short, it will just smolder. but a lithium flare will ignite most any difficult to ignite fire retardant material. I did that test on a plastic table and it melted through the whole thing and set the corners of the burn hole on fire with dripping plastic. Those normal AA devices are safe because they don't have what it takes to actually get enough plastic hot enough to start a fire.. but I am not kidding, the lithium primary battery in AA size is similar to a nautical flare once you get it started. The normal road flare you see is pretty tame because it does not have flammable metals in it, just sulfur, sawdust and red oxidizer. Once you put flammable metals in there the flame temperature increases drastically, it starts spewing little fireballs like a sparkler fountain and flame/burn chemistry changes because of the refractory temperatures achieved. And that fire just gets more angry when you pour water on it and starts spewing more white hot fireballs. (its a end of the world volcano effect, the worst electronic component failure I know of).A123 and such batteries also do it.. they double as decent fireworks and produce about as much smoke as a similar sized firework.. smash them on a rainy 4th of july for fun. The burn rate is more impressive then even a large sparkler.Do actually try it, the videos are not very good at conveying the true story of reactive metal fires.So after 10 years turned off, the device should not get under 1V ideally. If you get down to 1V after 6 months because of high quiescent, the battery is dead, has almost no energy left (the integral under the curve on the voltage range of interest is energy), and it is pressurized. Leave it pressurized and dead for 2 years and of course it will leak. The time constant for checking the devices is too frustrating, it should be at least good for 2 years by design IMO. At 0.8V you have like <5% capacity. No point in leaving it in. When you find that you should be anxious about how little time it has left and how its not going to be available when you need it.The date mark of those devices is 'best use by' not 'in service until.. the service use date depends on the voltage/capacity/gas pressure. Of course if it leaks in the package its a QC problem. Not saying there is not bad brands. No one wants to design it because someone is stupid and leaves a battery that will not even power up the device in the circuit for 3 years.I recommend checking the batteries yearly with a DMM and tossing most stuff that is under 1V because its not worth the money.. the value is still good if you don't squeeze 5% more out of it. Chances are you will just be late to work when you forget about a clock anyway, not worth the risk. Optimally test in circuit, but its difficult in some devices like flashlights, so then you need a battery load tester. Thankfully its like 5$. You don't need to be super precise because everything is cheap.I would go with the gut instinct and cut down that 'good till' date by 30%. Have you ever seen any consumer device ever that has totally accurate specifications? Any moderately smart individual will do things like 'try not to use that drill on max all the time' unless they paid 500$ for a boutique power tool that retails for 250-300 from common manufacturers (in terms of power tools). I.e. plowing tons of holes in reinforced concrete with a standard hammer drill with the max drill bit size all day on a round robin shift of batteries..

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 01:15:45 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 17, 2020, 08:09:36 pmBut no alkaline battery has more than a 5 year shelf life rating - which, as you said, we should sensibly reduce by 30% to be on the safe side?Basically, even with a low or no drain, these things are doomed to fail relatively quickly even in the best circumstances.Lithium is the only technology I know of that gives a 10 year shelf life, and I'm not aware of anyone having complained that it is unachievable?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 01:25:49 am
content: I thought duracell was 10 years and the lithium ones 20 years. I think energizer, duracell, panasonic, etc give 10 years for alkaline and 20 years for lithium. .https://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf20 yearsthe alkaline ones are 10 years. i never saw 5 year. maybe a zinc carbon cell, but I have zero use for zinc carbon, the only one I have is a F cell from inside a lantern. they are trash that literary dents when you press on it because the housing is made of zinc, I assume it can corrode through any part of the battery, not only the seam.So I would go 7/14 instead of 10/20. throw it out 3/6 years early.no one really knows about the AA lithium because their expensive, but if you take apart a used one, the metal is severely deteriorated. it looks like a rag left in the dirt for a long time.keep in mind the chemistry of AA lithium is different then 2/3 cell lithium (stubby camera cells). the AA use iron disulfide, the stubby cells used manganese dioxide, both with metallic lithium. AAA is also the disulfide.If you compare the internals, the manganese dioxide lithium ones (short cells) are built WAY tougher then the energizer batteries, with a thick mesh and manganese layer, that is almost rubbery, vs something akin to the stuff they put between slices of prosciutto in the iron disulfide one. Don't think I would trust it for 20 years, but I might trust the lithium/maganese one for whatever its rated for, because the construction seems very solid.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 01:37:30 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 18, 2020, 01:25:49 amI sit corrected - I don't know why I was so sure it was 5. - I'm not sure I'd trust a real world alkaline to be ready after 10 years storage, nor would I trust a lithium cell to be ready to use after 20 years!I think my alkalines tend to last max 5 years before beginning to leak in storage, but decay is accelerated at elevated temperature and it is possible I have stored them at higher than normal room temperature during the hottest summer months.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 01:40:46 am
content: https://panda-bg.com/datasheet/1617-360405-Lithium-Cylindrical-Battery-GP-CR123A.pdfI would trust that type of battery for the 10 years because it is good inside. (at least panasonic was)https://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdfthis one not so much, its wimpy inside, and they claim 20 years. And it has sulfur, which I assume makes it less stable from a metallurgical standpoint.If I recall the energizer one has some sort of liquid inside, in a slight amount, its not dry.But it could very well be that energizer put it in an accelerated test chamber and it performed to 20 years wheras the alkaline performed to 10 years. I think this date is generated from accelerated testing (I assume they have some law as we know electrolytic capacitors to have) that relates life time and temperature, which I assume is the main environmental factor they are concerned with.I also wonder how much of an effect shipping has on the battery. the beginning is a very delicate time...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 02:56:22 pm
content: I had good experience with the orange looking "Industrial" Duracell batteries.In June I ordered some more and instead got some Duracell "PROCELL" batteries.Today I needed one and took a brand new one out of its original box.Made in Belgium and good until 2026.What to say?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 05:47:43 pm
content: I think you got the meaning of the date wrong. It means "will leak before".BTW, recently I had Ansmann button cells with very poor performance (1/6 of the rated mAh). Looks like they are importing China's cheapest.Another brand to avoid.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2020, 01:40:32 am
content: Even worse if that Procell had been in your equipment, because the manufacturers don't warranty damage caused by "professional" batteries. They are intended for installation by OEMs and not end users, so somebody else gets to hold the liability bag.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2020, 12:02:54 pm
content: As I mention inthis other discussion:In my undocumented experience, I have the impression the mechanical conditions that contribute the most to battery leakage are the confinement in the tight space of a battery holder and the pressure from the spring or possible impact (in case they leak in their original packaging).The other factor I suspect the most is that the draining of the battery never ceases - they seem to leak more when left for weeks/months in equipment with a soft power button.For the equipment with a hard power button (flashlights, or my kids' soap bubble machine, for example), the discharge ceases in the off position, but I suspect the harsh environment and mechanical movement/impact seems to accelerate this process.I don't recall experiencing this with battery powered alarm clocks or other equipment that is "left alone" (wall clocks, wireless thermometers, etc.)This is totally anecdotal, but I can't believe the manufacturers never explored all these possibilities in testing - my guess is the drop in quality and durability is entirely deliberate.My recent observations are that some of the "industrial" or OEM batteries that are included in products haven't leaked - of course there's always a first time. That includes some of my kids' toys, where I found that Tianqiu batteries seem to be very sturdy, as several toys are no stranger to abuse but leakage does not seem to be a problem. And yes, some of them were past their expiration date and still holding a charge.At up to 2014 or whereabouts, Energizers were my go-to battery and I didn't have a leak (even found a 2013 exp. date on my bathroom scale with a soft button still holding great and no leak). After a few bad experiences, I moved to Ray-o-vac which worked very well for about 4 more years. Now I get them leaking in a very similar way as Dave mentioned in one of his last battery videos (liquid seeping between the external plastic film and the internal encasing), even on the store packaging.Panasonic and Maxell are still highly regarded by me, but I don't have them in numbers to warrant a more educated experience.Ah, and9V also leak.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2020, 01:41:47 pm
content: Quote from: helius on November 25, 2020, 01:40:32 amI was not aware of this, thanks !It is a surprise to me that the manufacturers get away with this.Today I bought some AA batteries from Würth.They claim to be professional batteries that do not leak.I am not sure who the manufacturer is behind these batteries, but will test them.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2020, 11:11:46 pm
content: I wonder if the Lunar Rover batteries are leaking now?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 09:04:42 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 25, 2020, 01:41:47 pmSounds familiar, where have i seen that onehmm

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:50:48 pm
content: the leaks all have to do with gas pressure I think, so a test might be to measure them carefully with a micrometer to see if they are bloated.The bounce test shows you that its highly pressurized and spent. I am guessing that some amount of gas is generated based on the amount of energy used, so the more drained they are, the higher the pressure is, the more strain you have on the seal. If you leave them in equipment for a long time with high quiescent drain (badly designed or damaged soft switch), it keeps using energy and pressurizing.. its like leaving a resistor across it, it won't cut off, and it will get the battery low enough to get it under high pressure. That's why products like batterizer are inherently stupid unless like I always said its some post apocalyptic military zombie survival shit. I assume their goal is to power a gieger counter with AA batteries scavenged 10 years after the end of the world. A good product might want to cut off completely at 1V/cell or so.There is probobly a corrosion factory (MM/Y rate of corrosion of the materials) and a gas pressure factor that are mixed together. Then I assume once its damaged by internal corrosion and pressurized it becomes more susceptible to temperature swings. Basically all material of reasonable cost will corrode when holding those chemicals at some rate of thickness per unit time. Then when its thinner the pressure will deform it and temperature swings will preturb it and it will form a crack some where and let corrosive mist through (the gas will push the electrolyte out of a small orifice at high pressure to make a acid rain storm or a drip).

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 07:45:04 pm
content: Maybe the batteries could be put in a pressure chamber and cycled? That might reveal the fatal flaw in these things.

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2020, 11:22:31 pm
content: Duracell ruined my Fluke 187 battery contacts. Now I can buy Duracells even cheaper!!! (NOT!!!)https://www.rather-be-shopping.com/blog/costco-batteries/

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 08:36:49 am
content: Yesterday I found a laser pointer in a drawer where it had slipped under some stuff and got lost for a couple years. I knew it was bad when I saw a corroded bulge in the side of the aluminum body. Used pliers to wrench the cap off the end and saw the unmistakable top of a Duracell battery. Such complete trash, I wonder if people will ever figure out how bad they have become.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 02:19:35 pm
content: Despite running a strict "no Duracell" policy for a couple of years now, they still keep popping up here as well...The average consumer has no chance... they will consider it bad luck etc. when it happens to them, because the fault develops so slowly.We need a battery equivalent of a Ralph Nader to get attention to this!

author: pinchies
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2021, 04:35:12 am
content: Just adding my 2c worth... digging in my "new batteries" battery box, and found two leaking ... no prizes for guessing the brand... durasmell... with expiry 2024!Found just one more with the same batch number not visibly leaking, but with that strong "I'm leaking" smell. All measured 1.45V+.Friends don't let friends buy Duracell!

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 10:09:11 am
content: Quote from: pinchies on September 14, 2021, 04:35:12 amThey are from the future. Ask them what 2024 is like. A friend wants to know.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 11:57:01 am
content: The same thing happened to me in original packaging!And a few weeks ago, I recycled them all.Never again!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2021, 01:55:36 pm
content: I think you got it wrong. It's not the expiry date, it's the "will leak before" date.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 04:05:07 pm
content: Meanwhile, I have some Duracell Rechargeable AAs (suspected re-badged Eneloops) here that still take a good charge after ~10 years of use...It seems the pathetically poor quality of Duracell AA Alkaline cells does not extend to their Rechargeable lineup?

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 16, 2021, 04:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 15, 2021, 01:55:36 pmGuaranteed!-Pat

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2021, 12:08:23 pm
content: I haven’t allowed Duracell’s into my building in the last 8 years. Leaking and equipment damage seems to be a feature of those things.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 05:31:35 pm
content: Had this come to me yesterday.I noticed the cells no longer say they will repair or replace damaged devices, and I looked around on the Duracell website and it isn't mentioned anywhere there either. I'm going to contact them anyway and ask just on principal, this mouse is such a mess I don't think it's really worth my time to mess with it.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 08:06:36 pm
content: It's a good example of hidden inflation. The price of Duracells on the grocery store shelf hasn't gone up that much, but their quality has fallen far enough to render them unfit for most purposes. You can still buy AA and AAA cells that don't leak, but to do that, you'll have to spend several times as much for primary lithium cells, or use NiMH rechargeables that might or might not work in your devices.The combination of environmental regulation and economic optimization has the effect of bifurcating the marketplace. If you're wealthy, it's all good. Those lithium AAs that cost $20 for a bubble pack of 4 are at least as good as alkaline Duracells were, back when they could make them out of mercury and polonium and DDT. But if you're a paycheck-to-paycheck kind of person, you'll spend the same money for a much-worse product that will have to be replaced more often.And no, you can't dodge this problem by switching to Energizers. That worked for a while, but I've replaced plenty of leaky Energizers recently. They aren't quite as bad but that's all you can say for them.There is no solution but to switch to NiMH when possible and primary lithium otherwise. Conventional alkalines are done for.My guess is that the same thing's going to happen with everything from cars and computers to food and furniture. Quality is about to become VERY expensive.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 08:26:01 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 24, 2021, 08:06:36 pmThe Sunbeam ones I get at the dollar store don't leak, even after a decade in a meter in my hot and cold garage. I just installed a 15+ year old NOS Energizer 9V battery that looked good and worked well. I wonder what the technical issue is. Cost? Environmental restriction of some substance?

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 08:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on September 24, 2021, 08:26:01 pmYes.-Pat

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 08:57:36 pm
content: The only thing I still use alkaline AA cells for is clocks and remote controls. I picked up some Panasonic cells from Digikey a while back that have been fine, haven't had one of them leak yet. I have a few things I use alkaline C cells in because proper rechargeable C and D cells that are not just a AA in a larger housing are hard to find.Oddly the AA cells seem to be the absolute worse of the bunch. Just today I tossed out some dead Duracell C cells that were in some Roomba virtual walls. That was a mix of dates from 2005-2009 accumulated from unknown sources and none of them had leaked. AA's are the most common size by far but thinking about it I don't even remember the last time I had a C or D battery leak and while comparatively rare I do have a non-zero number of those.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 09:07:05 pm
content: 4/2016 "A federal judge threw out a lawsuit accusing Procter & Gamble Co PG.N of misleading consumers by guaranteeing that Duracell batteries would not fail for 10 years, when in fact the batteries might leak when used or stored normally.""Koh said reasonable consumers would understand that P&G’s representation that the batteries were “guaranteed for 10 years in storage” was a warranty to repair, replace or refund batteries that failed within that timeframe, and not a promise that the batteries “have no potential to leak.”"She also said in her 33-page decision that the complaint did not identify any cause, including any design or manufacturing defect, as to why the batteries might leak."https://www.reuters.com/article/us-procter-gamble-lawsuit-duracell-idUSKCN0WI23AThe case is Punian v Gillette Co et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of California, No. 14-05028.So much for the false advertising suit, equipment damage, and any hope of Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway salvaging the cow they milked to death.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2021, 11:57:30 pm
content: While in a sense I agree, there's no way to guarantee that a battery containing liquid *cannot* ever possibly under any circumstances leak, it should certainly be exceptionally rare. If all batteries leaked that would be one thing, but Duracell batteries in particular seem to be particularly prone to leaking, and only within the last 20 years or so. Prior to that it was unusual for alkaline batteries to leak unless they were very old.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 02:08:26 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 24, 2021, 08:06:36 pmIndeed. I still have a handful of Black top Energizers with exp date of 2012/2013 thst are still in one piece and holding charge. Much newer series with lighter colors leaked like crazy.Quote from: james_s on September 24, 2021, 08:57:36 pmI did the same - switched about a year ago and haven't had a problem yet, even with completelh drained ones. Knock on wood.Quote from: james_s on September 24, 2021, 08:57:36 pmSimilar here. I suspect that either the batteries are less used when compared to the smaller ones (so the sample space is smaller) or they are indeed sturdier (perhaps lower density of charge). Oh well... Still playing whack-a-mole...

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2021, 03:42:30 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 25, 2021, 02:08:26 amPerhaps because the AA and AAA ones are used in such large numbers, they're the ones that have been most optimized for 'economy' by the counters of beans, who've specified thinner enclosure materials because they're smaller and can be made with lighter construction? Saving a fraction of a penny on something you make a gazillion a year of is a better ROI than saving that same fraction of a cent on something that you only make a tenth of a gazillion a year of. I know they've certainly gone to crap quality-wise over the past 20 or so years in my experience, and agree that the larger cells seem still to be at least a bit more sturdily made and less prone to puking their guts out than the AA/AAA cells.-Pat

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 06:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 24, 2021, 08:06:36 pmThis is already true... quality stuff, made of real materials, is incredibly expensive - almost no matter what you are looking at.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2021, 04:33:38 pm
content: I just got some Nickel-Zinc NiZn AA and AAA batteries for this very reason. I will try them in various applications and watch the results.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 10:39:48 am
content: I can only speak for stuff available in Germany, but the Alkalines sold by Aldi and Lidl are the ones to buy - I haven't had a single leaking one in over 20 years, maybe 30 years.However I mostly use Eneloops and other LSD type of cells from Aldi/Lidl now - which are less than 1 EUR each (though the standard Eneloops seem to be a bit better). Never had a single leaking one, either.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 11:57:52 am
content: Haenk, not doubting your experience with these brands throughout the years, I would ask how long ago did you buy your last set. The reason is that, across many brands, it seems the quality suffered a major decline in the last 10, 15 years from the standpoint of leakage. Also, this seems to be very concentrated on AA/AAA.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 03:48:11 pm
content: It coincides with theEPA Mercury-Containing Battery Actapproved 1996 and it took a few years to implement. Mercury was essential to dealing with hydrogen off-gassing.But some new quality problem exists, Duracell batteries piss and leak- while sometimes you can get lucky and they don't, and other brands have no issues.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 04:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 24, 2021, 08:06:36 pmOr, you can buy the cheap dollar store brands like Sunbeam. I have never seen one of those leak. The magic phrase for non-leaky alkalines is "clock battery".The reason the more expensive batteries are more likely to leak is that they have more active and energetic chemical formulations inside them, and these "high power" formulations are less stable, making them more likely to react and produce gas while sitting on the shelf.The cheaper alkaline cells use less active and more stable formulations, so they are less likely to undergo shelf reactions.Leakage in alkaline cells is caused by a build up of gas pressure inside the cell that forces the insides out like toothpaste. The case is sealed well enough to resist small leak pressures, but if the internal pressure gets too high the seal bursts and you get a mess.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 04:21:59 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 19, 2021, 04:08:24 pmA new battery or one that is not discharged much should evolve little to no hydrogen gas. This is the Duracell dilemma- they are leaking beforehand. I believe it's not the "usual" reason for leaking that we are assuming. Previously it was always dead batteries that leaked, now you just look at them and they take the piss. In the store, on the shelf, etc.I posted pics of AAA Duracell seal, nothing to burst or rupture-https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/alkaline-battery-leakage-testing-part-1/msg2253834/#msg2253834

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2021, 06:50:35 pm
content: if someone just made a long term anti lead and mercury vaccine we would all be delighted with electronics

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 01:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 19, 2021, 04:21:59 pmIt seems the most likely cause is: one cost optimization too far!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2021, 03:23:08 pm
content: <conspiracy hat on>Besides profit optimization they might get some additional money from manufacturers of battery powered devices. When leaking batteries damage your device you have to buy a new one. Classic win-win situation.<conspiracy hat off>

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 06:32:06 am
content: If Duracells leak, file a claim. I had a flashlight where Duracells had eaten up the inside of the aluminium. It cost me peanuts, but I claimed for the RRP, and they paid up no issues - close to £100. They don't want the bad press especially with how high profile they are.Easy as pie.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 08:57:31 pm
content: Quote from: eti on November 22, 2021, 06:32:06 amIt is a pain if a piece of equipment is destroyed that is not easy to replace - e.g. something that is no longer in production.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 09:04:11 pm
content: I've been using GP alkaline batteries for years and never had a leak, but I'm interested to know if others have had any issues with them.I had some test equipment delivered recently which came with Duracell batteries, specifically written on the side "OEM" use only. Without seeing this thread I had no hesitation about putting them in, now I'm thinking about pulling those out as these devices could potentially have the same batteries in there for months.Anything I buy that comes with batteries that have a questionable brand on them I put straight in the bin, somehow I did put supplied batteries in a "Tacklife" laser distance measurer, I got that out recently to check the sizes internally and externally on some houses we were viewing (Never trust estate agents) and they had leaked inside. They hadn't been in there long and had plenty of life in them.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2021, 09:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on November 22, 2021, 09:04:11 pmWhat I generally do is to avoid any batteries that have marketing labels on them, like "max power", or "ultra", or "30% better", or anything like that. These are the ones that will have more energetic formulas, that are less shelf-stable. The ones to buy are ones that make no special marketing claims, and which sell through low cost outlets. Brands like Kodak, Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, Sunbeam come to mind. These seem to be more reliable. I think GP would come into the same category.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2021, 02:32:58 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on November 22, 2021, 08:57:31 pmAgreed, of course.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2021, 02:15:56 pm
content: Quote from: eti on November 22, 2021, 06:32:06 amAFAIK, Duracell never offered a compensation program for damages caused by leaking batteries in Germany. We have a product liability act which might be applied in this case, but it could involve hiring a lawyer.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 05:25:28 am
content: Quote from: madires on November 23, 2021, 02:15:56 pmThey do in the UK, specifically England, where I live. You guys need to sort it out then, get them to compensate you.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 06:54:49 am
content: I have never heard of anything like that either.But at this point, alkalines are practically dead.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 06:59:11 am
content: Quote from: magic on November 24, 2021, 06:54:49 amAlkaline batteries are nowhere near “dead”. Nonsense.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 08:00:47 am
content: Reading this thread again...remembered 2 old multimeters I have! One is an old favourite years back. This prompted me to check themSure enough Durahell batteries leaking, got to it just in time. The other 9V battery just fine. They are still in date...FWIW.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 05:31:15 pm
content: "U.S. District Judge F. Dennis Saylor IV stated that plaintiffs Lauren Carlson and Jamal Yusuf did not do enough to support their claims that Duracell batteries contain a leak defect. Judge Saylor further claimed that no reasonable consumer would take Duracell’s “guarantee for 10 years in storage” as a promise of perfection."In the motion to dismiss the Duracell leaky batteryclass action lawsuit,Judge Saylor states thatall manufactured products are susceptible to failing because they are designed and manufactured by human beings, and human beings make mistakes.According to Saylor, a “guarantee” is simply a promise that the manufacturer will replace the product or refund the purchase price if the item does not work as expected.Duracell paid $2.2M for theclass-action suiton their Model 350L LED flashlights."Customers in the Duracell flashlight battery class action lawsuit argued that three models of Duracell LED flashlights’ batteries were defective because they drained in less than a month. Allegedly, this occurred even if the flashlight was turned off.""The Duracell class action asserted that this problem should have been covered by Duracell’s warranty that covers unused batteries.Duracell argued that once the batteries were in the flashlight, they should not be considered unused and should not be covered under the warranty."Duracell fired back that “per plaintiff’s logic, a car battery is ‘in storage’ when the car is not running, and a battery phone is ‘in storage’ so long as a phone is placed in the ‘off’ position.” According to Duracell, thecustomers’ claims are “absurd.”"Duracell states that the customers did not describe in specifics what the warranty for the flashlight was. Duracell asserts that the customers only noted that the flashlights were advertised as “free from defects” and claimed that the battery drain was a defect and because Duracell had not issued a recall, Duracell was in violation of warranty. "

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 05:35:20 pm
content: Further reinforcement of my decision not to ever buy Corrodacells ever again unless I have absolutely no other option. I've seen plenty of them leak in storage, unused, well before their 'use by' date.-PatEdit to add regarding the Judge's comment about perfection during ten year storage, no, I realistically don't expect perfection. But I also don't expect 20-30% of the cells to start puking their guts out less than half way through that 'guaranteed' storage period, either - I'd consider that to be a rather abysmal performance, integrity-wise. I wonder what that judge would consider an unacceptable failure rate?

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2021, 10:56:48 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 24, 2021, 05:31:15 pmWe used Duracell back in 1990s AAs as they were the only batteries accepted (by our Airforce and Army) to be used in Acft NVGs (fit for flight, no idea if they were classed MIL SPEC). I was in charge of a maintenance facility for these NVGs.The batteries never leaked, that I know of! Never. They were the old Crimped cases. We had hundreds of them in our stock and went thru them quickly. We had to fit new batteries before every use and remove post use, throw them away (ahhh hummm throw them home) even if not used.We used the same in our inspection torches they were fitted till they died. But I never saw one leak ever, back then.Funny thing around 1999 we got new Duracell AA batteries and they had changed a little. They were wider than the old "crimped" versions and we had trouble fitting them. I wonder if this was the introduction of the "glued cases? We did not know at that stage what had happened and were trying to contact Duracell to find out "what's changed"...I never found out.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2021, 01:09:10 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 24, 2021, 05:31:15 pmEven in this forum full of engineers, we are having trouble coming up with concrete evidence or some kind of test that can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Duraleaks are not very good compared to other batteries...We do have a lot of anecdotal evidence, though. Certainly enough to convince any reasonable person to be careful about using them in valuable equipment for extended time periods!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2021, 02:22:20 am
content: Indeed. Floobydust's post is a cautionary tale for anyone trying to take to court a corporation without a mountain amount of really solid and indisputable evidence, have an army of good lawyers and be lucky to get a judge that is sympathetic towards your cause. Too bad that we small customers are left hanging with our precious deceased gizmos.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2021, 01:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 25, 2021, 02:22:20 amIf it is a jury trial, you need to convince the jurors... - it isn't really up to the judge, in theory at least...Thinking about it, what might have worked is to bring in a mountain of leaky cells with recent date codes, as well as crying children with corroded toys, elderly ladies with corroded transistor radios that were mementos from deceased husbands, engineers with corroded equipment and tools that they had become deeply familiar with over years, etc. - in other words, show the human cost of the selfish, inconsiderate, and morally reprehensible acts of the cheapskates at Duraleak Corporation!

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2021, 02:57:53 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on November 25, 2021, 01:56:58 pmThe judge is the one who decides what evidence the jury is allowed to hear. You might think that they simply follow objective rules of evidence in making that decision, but looking at transcripts of real cases will soon convince you otherwise.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2022, 04:47:26 pm
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on November 24, 2021, 10:56:48 pmBack then they were allowed to use (eg.) cadmium in them to make them less likely to leak.Things have changed now, Cadmium is banned because it's incredibly toxic.We know this for a fact.A couple of months ago I finally bit the bullet and went through all my stuff removing the alkalines. Anybody who's read this thread should do the same. If not, they only have themselves to blame for any future leaks in their stuff.Bottom line: Don't use alkalines in anything valuable and/or anything that goes for months/years without a battery change. Use lithium or Eneloops instead.Leave the alkalines for things which eat up batteries and need regular changes, that's where you'll save money by buying them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2022, 04:50:51 pm
content: While I'm here I'm going to plug a web page...EEVBLOG's resident multimeter reviewer has also done very detailed tests on batteries and chargers:https://lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.htmlhttps://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 07:21:11 am
content: My turn to become victim.My TV remote has been violated by Durahell. TV would not turn on so I looked inside and sure enough. Interestingly enough the battery still reads 1.4v but I did not try under any load.Yum.Money shot:I do wonder if temperature cycling plays a role in this. It's been very cold here, -40 range, and my house is badly insulated so if I'm sleeping, or not home, I just let the temp drop instead of having the furnace running non stop full pin just trying to maintain temp. This creates a very large temp cycling of the house though as it will go as low as like 10c and then 20c when I do run the heat again.We also had a warm day, so I cranked the humidity up since it's been super dry. (if I crank it too high when it's cold the windows frost up). So these rather large swings in temp/humidity in past few days may have played a role maybe? Either way it was probably bound to happen but it may have triggered it.Thankfully it did not really damage the remote though, was able to clean it and it is good to go. None of this seems to have leaked in the pcb. Probably helps that with remote set on table as normal the batteries are the lowest part.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 07:55:20 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on February 06, 2022, 07:21:11 amI don't think the temp/humidity swings had anything to do with it, and that looks like way more than a few days worth of crustiness growth. As I've stated before, I've had the damned things leak in their packaging while stored in my office, and I keep the temp pretty steady here. I think it's just the normal Corrodacell 'quality' we've seen over the most recent 10-15 years. Do they have a 'best by' date on them, and if so, what is it?-Pat

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 08:34:33 am
content: When I see a normal Duracell round cell I now just throw them out due to the damage and inconvenience they caused me in the past.Joke: I think that one's "best by date" was last Christmas for the snow.I use to buy used unopened EX110/MK100 Logitech keyboards on ebay and they had aa's and aaa's but what I found interesting that not all of them leaked despite being plastic wrapped together.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 08:38:08 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on February 06, 2022, 07:55:20 amYeah it's hard to tell how long it's been. I'd have to get into the habit of checking more often. Would be an interesting experiment to see if the process can be accelerated via temp swings though, like have a chamber, perhaps outside, that heats up to like 25C, and then lets the temp drop down to like 10 or something, then just keep cycling that. Would need to take batteries from the same package, put some in the chamber, some just sitting in the house, and maybe some in the fridge, just to see if either one starts to leak faster.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:16:57 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on February 06, 2022, 08:38:08 pmI'm sure that's been tried many times but let us know the results.I wonder about changes in atmospheric pressure, too.Bottom line though: They never seem to leak when you try to get them to do it on purpose. Ask Dave.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2022, 11:29:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 06, 2022, 11:16:57 pmLol yeah that is funny. It's definitely a mystery what actually causes it.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 03:20:38 am
content: Found in my Fluke12:This explains the suspicious 'POP' which I heard some time ago. Luckily, the gooey stuff stayed inside.

author: scopeman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 03:55:04 am
content: I do not know of any Alkalines that do not leak. I have a bagfull of Kirkland brand batteries that have several years to go on their storage life that are leaking. I am taking them back this week. It seems that they must have changed vendors as I have some that are years older that have not leaked. These are brand new cells that were just sitting in a rack.If I have a piece of critical equipment I have started using the Energizer Ultimate Lithium's as I have never seen one leak. Also I use carbon zinc cells (the cheap ones from Dollar Tree) and have not had an issue with them. I have an Eveready D cell with a date code of 1948 on it that has never leaked. It is a standard LeClanche cell.So I do not for the life of me know why they can't make cells that do not leak.Sam'W3OHM

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 07:46:09 am
content: Quote from: scopeman on February 07, 2022, 03:55:04 amThey can, but it would cost them pennies more.There's no point in moaning about it though. We know the facts and we have Eneloops.(and these days everybody and his dog is making NiMH with low self-discharge)

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 11:13:01 am
content: Do you guys not buy the cheapest alkalines available?Quote from: TheBay on November 22, 2021, 09:04:11 pmI had "GP Super" alkalines in my TI-82 for a few years until they ran out and they never leaked. Actually, after i changed them out i forgot to throw them away and i still have them.And the dead batteries are still not leaking after sitting for another half a year.Now i'm rocking some cheapo "Westrom" brand (generic brand basically) alkaline cells and they seem to be holding up just as well so far.I've had one no-name AAA cell leak on me, but i did not buy that cell, rather i came with my cheap automatic welding mask and it lived through some tough conditions ranging from -15oC to +30oC.Also that cell did not piss like a duracell, rather it was a slow leak. So slow, in fact, that i ignored it for a couple months and continued using the mask.Eventually i changed it out, of course.But really, what's the point of buying expensive cells these days?More expensive = more better?Well Duracells aren't.Name brand = better?Not Duracell.Guaranteed to not leak?Well you get the idea...But what's to tell that other [insert brand] selling their [insert battery], and promising [insert claims] is not the same as Duracell?So i buy the cheapest stuff (that doesn't look straight up dodgy of course), because they make no claims other than "this is a battery, it does battery things".

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 12:33:04 pm
content: Name brand anything costs more because of advertising, not because they're better. Because of penny pinching, greedy company executives they may actually be worse than no name products.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 02:49:16 pm
content: The big brands can sometimes successfully sell "marginal" products at premium prices because most consumers are not aware of the "marginality".This doesn't just apply to batteries...Caveat emptor!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 05:18:37 pm
content: Interesting... Two 2018 Duracell batteries in their initial stages of leaking: (and a shortyoutube clip)Contrast that to excellent quality 2013 Energizers still going strong on my mouse. These are from the era of excellent Energizer batteries.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 05:55:09 pm
content: I don't think I have any Duracells left in any device now. I even recycled all the remaining "new" Duracell alkalines that I had (about 20 cells) - what's the point of taking the risk of using them? Using them is like intentionally exposing yourself to Covid-19!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2022, 06:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: scopeman on February 07, 2022, 03:55:04 amThere is some physics and chemistry behind this.Carbon zinc cells could leak when the electrolyte eats through the outer zinc electrode shell. However, they do not build up any gas pressure, and the electrolyte is a dry paste, so any leaking is just by creepage. Modern cells are packaged inside a steel outer casing which seals them and keeps the electrolyte inside. This is why modern carbon zinc cells are rarely seen leaking. No gas pressure and sealed outer casing.Alkaline cells are built as a sealed unit, but they can build up gas pressure (hydrogen) inside while sitting around. There are chemicals to absorb the hydrogen, but if the hydrogen is produced too fast, or if the absorbing chemicals run out, then pressure will build up inside until the electrolyte bursts out. Due to the internal pressure, when the leak happens it tends to create quite a mess.Lithium cells do not have much inside them that can leak, and have no gas pressure problem, so they are relatively safe.NiMH cells certainly do build up gas pressure inside, but they are sealed very securely, so it will take an extreme event to make them leak. An extreme event could be severe overcharging or overheating. They are not likely to leak in normal use. (They are also quite dry inside, so there is not much to leak out anyway.)

author: Bill158
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 10:30:14 pm
content: If you think that what happened to your remote or meter is bad trying getting one of these examples of CCC out of a AA pocket flashlight barrel! I just had a DuraHell AA swell up inside of the barrel of a MAGLITE 2 cell flashlight and it was the top cell next to the lamp assembly. I just bought it a few months ago for around $25. I know I didn't leave the light on because it "turns on" by twisting the top assembly which also focuses the light. It was OFF and besides I would have seen the light on because it is one of the newer bright LED models. I just wouldn't come out!So I had another MAGLITE just like this one. I took it apart and figured out how to get the lamp module out. It comes out through the bottom of the barrel. So I got a nut driver which was about the diameter of the barrel and placed it at the top of the lamp assembly and began hammering down. I figured the flashlight was junk now so why not try. That cell was swollen in SO BAD that it took a real hard hammering many many times to get it to get to the bottom of the barrel where I could grab it with pliers and twist it the rest of the way out. I guess I didn't do any damage to the lamp assembly because when I got it put back together and install 2 Energizer cells it worked just fine.I have had more than enough of these pieces of DuraHell CCC also leak exactly like everyone has shown in their photos. NO MORE for me!Bill

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 11:32:33 pm
content: Oh man yeah that would suck with a flashlight. At least with remote I have decent access to get the cells out. Surprisingly the damage was minor after. I was able to clean it all out.

author: rpiloverbd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 11:46:40 pm
content: Original or knock-off?

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2022, 11:56:50 pm
content: Quote from: rpiloverbd on February 09, 2022, 11:46:40 pmI've bought enough at different times over the years from legitimate sources (big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes, not sketchy unknowns on eBuy or Amazon) that there's little or no chance that they're ALL knock-offs. I'd bet that none were. And they've been crap leak-wise for long enough that it's not an anomaly - it's crap design. Pree-2000 cells found in old gear have much better structural integrity, and if they do leak it is a very small amount compared to what the current crop of AA/AAA cells are inclined to puke out.-Pat

author: Jeff eelcr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 05:12:57 pm
content: I have seen 1 brand new one (AA size) putting out negative 1.5 volts.Jeff

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 06:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff eelcr on February 12, 2022, 05:12:57 pmYes, that happens if you accidentally reverse the probes on the meter

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 06:39:13 pm
content: Quote from: Jeff eelcr on February 12, 2022, 05:12:57 pmWas the plastic wrapper put on the wrong way round?

author: staticresident
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 08:59:35 pm
content: I have very few items in the house that take primary batteries. Almost everything gets NiMh batteries. They save you so much money and headache. Just have to cycle them every other month or so, and your good for years.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 09:16:14 pm
content: Quote from: staticresident on February 12, 2022, 08:59:35 pmWhat do you mean by that? They have about the same capacity as Alkaline and don't need any cycling. Unless you use non LSD cells which quickly self discharge for low consumption devices.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2022, 09:31:18 pm
content: Pulled two of these Pairdeer AAA from a long forgotten Fluke Voltalert, batteries which originally came included. They have 06/2013 best before date printed on them. Still 1.54V and short circuiting gives 3A current. Good as new. Made by Zhongyin (Ningbo) Battery Co.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2022, 06:32:47 am
content: I thought I got rid of the Duracells in the house as I now use Eneloops and I have a few Industrial/Procells lying about that I keep out when not in use but pulled this Duracell out of a microphone and spent the night cleaning it out.Notice "Best Before Mar 2027" so it can't be old.I looked around the house and found four Duracells some of which are newer and all tested good. I have binned them so they can degrade naturally without taking out anymore of my things.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2022, 02:50:58 pm
content: It is really irritating that they are unable to manufacture a quality product while at the same time charging premium prices as if they do. Numpties.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2022, 04:15:54 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on February 21, 2022, 02:50:58 pmI think we're the bigger numpties if we continue buying the damned things despite repeatedly having them puke corrosion on everything. I finally got smart and completely ditched them as a brand about six years ago.-Pat

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 01:35:59 am
content: Duracell has been through so many acquisitions for decades, a few @hole owners. Sadly the brand is almost 100 years old and used to be excellent long ago.1996 Gillette Company acquired Duracell, 2005 Proctor & Gamble, 2014 purchased by Berkshire Hathaway, which also owns Mouser.All they're interested in is maximum profit. Cheapen the product as much as possible and hurrah our scorecards look great.I see it with many old brands that were very good product- they get acquired and then it's the race to the bottom for price and quality, exploiting consumer loyalty to a "brand name".What a scumbag way to make money.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 02:12:34 am
content: I don't remember many Duracells leaking back over 20 years ago.I did see many of these Panasonic red "Special power" batteries leak and some unknown extra/heavy duty brands.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 02:53:10 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on February 22, 2022, 01:35:59 amSadly a fate that seems to befall many formerly well regarded and respected brands. Porter-Cable is another that comes to mind. They used to make excellent woodworking power tools - sanders, routers, that sort of thing. Then they got bought out by Stanley (also formerly a well respected company) and became purveyors of a crap line of rechargeable cordless power tools sold by big box stores. I seem to recall reading recently that they’d discontinued their line of routers.-Pat

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 03:37:38 pm
content: And then they wonder why cheap Chinese knockoffs are so popular... basically, consumers are discovering that in too many cases, the "known brands" are cost optimized down to being not much better than a cheap knock-off, and the price difference is purely due to the brand name!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 01:36:30 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on February 22, 2022, 02:53:10 amIf I recall the porter cable worm drive saws used to be considered legendary for things like patio construction. Very good mechanical drive, very robust chassis, hard to overload or jam *but they did have a grounding problem that made them less safe due to aluminum (or was it magnalium?) body* .. so they used to be able to spend a life of cutting 4x4, 2x6, 2x8 and being dropped from the first story all the time (i.e. cutting timber on the sides of houses from a ladder). Their downfall has something to with the Sears company?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 10:58:36 pm
content: Dug out my old Gameboy DMG-01 to see if it's Ebayable and surprised to find a set of four Duracells in it (oops). No leak at all - could have been brand new if I didn't know better. Even more amazing is they still had more or less full charge!Date code is 2005 so before the brand took a nosedive. Seventeen years! I might flog 'em on Ebay as vintage (probably fetch more than the Gameboy).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 05:05:43 am
content: Quote from: Bill158 on February 09, 2022, 10:30:14 pmI think I would try hydraulic pressure. Hose clamp the flashlight body in the end of a hose and pressurize it, If it's stick as tight as yours was it might blow the body out of the end of the hose before the battery budges but then again it might not, a manual grease gun can develop hundreds of PSI.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2022, 03:43:46 am
content: FYI I have two new Energizer 9V lithiums leaking blue syrup from two different batches but they two years before expiry.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2022, 04:06:06 am
content: I had to stop buying Duracells years ago because of the leaking.While it's true that it's virtually impossible to guarantee any alkaline from ever leaking, I go through lots of batteries and have never seen the level of leaking with other brands that I've seen from Duracell. Energizer, Ray-o-vac, and AC Delco batteries I've used by the dozens, and don't think I've ever had a leak. But Duracells? All over the place, all the time. And I had one big-box house brand leak in the package (9v's even) within a couple of years of purchase.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2022, 01:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: nukie on December 13, 2022, 03:43:46 amI hadn't seen (or heard of) Lithiums leaking before... Please say it's not true, I've got Lithium batteries everywhere now lol

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2022, 03:22:05 pm
content: I haven't seen any leaking 9V lithium batteries yet. Maybe it's the latest feature "we make them leak too".

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 05:54:15 am
content: Just came across some genuine Durahell leakage porn right here.I have two wireless doorbells that I don't use anymore, and I just never took them down. I randomly realized today "why are those even still there?" and took them down, and of course, I had to check the batteries. Both units looked similar.I replaced it with a wired unit a long time ago as I was tired of dealing with changing batteries.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 09:55:48 am
content: Ummm....edit: showed up after a refresh. Hate imgur.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 08, 2023, 05:54:15 amWell, the batteries are in spec, i.e. leaked before Dec 2022.

author: GLouie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 05:39:57 am
content: Here's some AAA I had in a zip bag, never used, stewing in their own juices. Dec 2025 dates.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 01:59:10 am
content: I don't know if I can blame Duracell for this since I couldn't even get the batteries out to check the brand, but it might be safe to say it is Duracells in there.You'd think I'd learn by now to stop leaving alkaline batteries in devices.RIP Radioshack laser pointer.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 07:58:10 am
content: Dismantle and clean it in the sink, with kitchen vinegar and a toothbrush, then with running water. Don't scratch off the oxides with metal tools, and don't use abrasives. If the mess doesn't go off easily, keep the leaked parts under vinegar to soften the crystals, then try with the toothbrush again.Maybe it's still usable, eventually with a replaced microswitch and battery spring.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 01:28:09 pm
content: Quote from: GLouie on March 09, 2023, 05:39:57 amYummy! They look delicious!Mix them with old PC boards and rusted screws, and you have got a wonderfully toxic salad.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 02:49:24 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on August 31, 2023, 07:58:10 amthe batteries slide in right from the end, so there was no way to pull them out as they were fused inside. I ended up just throwing it out. (this was a while back only found the pic now) Although alkaline batteries are not as spicy as lithium ion, I could have just drilled a screw through the cell and pulled it out, now that I think about it.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 04:09:52 pm
content: At last, some honest battery branding!

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 04:33:53 pm
content: I was reading through this thread, and my wireless mouse started acting erratically.Hmmmm, could it be the batteries? Let’s find out.And guess what, the culprit was indeed a pair of leaking Duracells. I immediately went to my wireless keyboard, and it also had leaking Duracells.Both had been replaced a few weeks earlier.Damage was contained apparently, to only the battery contacts. The keyboard is OK, but the mouse still resets, even after cleaning. Unfortunately once that the terminal’s plating has corroded, it will make intermittent contact.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 08:47:51 pm
content: Today saw a pair of Energisers, expired 2015, and only now starting to leak. Compared to the Durahells, expiring 2026, that were leaking in the packaging. I now am just buying cheap generic cells, around the price of a 4 pack of Durahell or Enermisers, but you get a 24 pack instead. Lower capacity, which means less pressure in them, and perfect for things like remotes and clocks.Only thing I wish is to find out who makes the white sleeve no name batteries for Proctor and Gamble, never had any of those ever leak, even if they were a decade past the expiry date, they would still have charge in them if unused, and would never fail in equipment and leak. They were the batteries in Glade air fresheners, as I would buy the promo packs, which were 2 cans, the dispenser and the batteries, for less than the retail cost of a single can. Ladies wanted fresh loo smell, so went through 8 cans per month. Thus I had lots of those cells, and even more so the dispensers, which went straight into the scrap plastic pile, after taking the motor and board out.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 10:29:23 am
content: Another horrible example of a DuraHELL in a calculator.Maybe one day an executive from Duracell will read this thread.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 10:52:28 am
content: QuoteOr perhaps they already have and just don't give a shit so long as people keep buying them. Which they do.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 12:57:07 pm
content: That or they will come up in a few years out of retirement with a book deal aboutThe spectacular collapse of battery reliability and durability - A dark history of the battery industry from an insider.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 01:43:30 pm
content: And it becomes a New York Times list bestseller.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2023, 04:37:48 pm
content: It's a Wall Street dream. Warren Buffet could care less about anything other than return on investment. Duracell have 30% of the world alkaline battery market. Only 60 employees and all the loot apparently is going to executive compensation.Every time I read this thread, I remember to check something for leaking Duracells and find a mess...

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 08:15:34 pm
content: I just bought a lantern at a tag sale. Had 4x Duracell D sized alkaline batteries, dated March 2010. None of them leaked - All of them still work!Maybe the malaise is limited to AA (and perhaps AAA), or are they just so much more common?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 09:02:23 pm
content: I have >10yo Duracell which are fine - no leaks, still good charge. The issue seems to have occurred mid-201x when Duracell got sold off to, presumably, who-gives-a-shit asset strippers.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 10:54:46 pm
content: Quote from: Veteran68 on December 13, 2022, 04:06:06 amJust tossed a whole batch of Ray-o-vac AAAs that had all leaked while in storage, they'd have been around five years old. Replaced them with Varta AAAs, lets see how those go...

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 11:26:47 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on October 06, 2023, 09:02:23 pmthese guyshttps://independenceday.fandom.com/wiki/Harvesters

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 09:20:10 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on October 06, 2023, 08:15:34 pmI had a bit of a surprise when I opened up my milliohm meter adapter to take a photo a few months back. I don't know if it's being an older battery, or being a D cell, but no signs of leakage on a 2004 expiry date. Maybe the bigger seals vs AA and AAA are a factor.Both batteries were original from when I built it around 20 years ago and still reading fine, so I left them...I also run my Synchronome master clock from a pack of three D size Durahell cells. That runs for 2-3 years on a set and I've yet to see a problem with those either. I do smear the holder contacts (same type as the milliohm meter) with Vaseline just in case.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 09:41:15 am
content: So far I only had bad experience with DuraHell AA and AAAI never had a D-Cell or 9V Block battery leak.Maybe the problem is limited to AA and AAA cells.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 01:32:59 am
content: I had Duracell D cells leak in a large aluminum Maglite type flashlight. Getting the damn thing open was a major chore that involved damaging the finish, but then the batteries couldn't be removed as they were essentially swollen+welded inside. Funny thing was the flashlight still worked until the batteries finally drained, then I threw it out.I've had 9V batteries leak. Including a multi-pack I bought at a big-box home improvement store (house brand, don't recall who actually made them) that leaked in the unopened package and ruined the whole pack. 9Vs are just six AAAA cells inside the case, so subject to the same seal leakage as AA and AAA, they just have the extra block "wrapper" that can (sometimes) keep the leakage contained inside.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 03:45:58 pm
content: Quote from: Veteran68 on October 10, 2023, 01:32:59 amA drill and self-tapping screw...Quote from: Veteran68 on October 10, 2023, 01:32:59 amThat, and a few cm of wire separating the battery from the device.

author: p.larner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 05:28:23 pm
content: i guess three words sums it up,"made in china".

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 05:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: p.larner on October 10, 2023, 05:28:23 pmExcept Duracell batteries for North American market are made in USA (Cleveland, TN), and ones for Europe are made in Belgium (Aarschot).The only exception is Ni-MH cells which are subcontracted out.They even have an adorable mailbox at the Cleveland location:https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2027714,-84.8541249,3a,46y,277.3h,84.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFqREQa2QTL7MF4Mej8ai6A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttuAnd some clever use of panel colours in Belgium:https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9917449,4.8226011,3a,75y,28.1h,91.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soKPj5RglsUHyTk62dsZryg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 05:44:41 pm
content: Quote from: E-Design on June 27, 2020, 12:12:47 pmNew Duracell ad: If it leaks, it must be a DuraCell

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2023, 06:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: p.larner on October 10, 2023, 05:28:23 pmI've had Duracell batteries leak that were made in USA, china, Indonesia etc. It doesn't matter where they are "made" although the seal for all could be made a single plant thus guaranteeing the leaking and shit quality, across the board.Although I highly doubt they are "made in USA" likely just put in the bubble pack/box or something for final packaging- as if union labour prices can compete.Made in USA Labeling Rulehas been modified Aug. 2021.I expect Duracell (and Fluke) to have to make changes to their claims and product packaging.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 03:33:16 am
content: Another great product by the world's #1 battery company...

author: chinoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 05:38:49 am
content: Fluke are selling all the Meters with Duracell batteries which are leaking and taking out PCBs and Fluke refuses to offer any help.I just purchased a brand new Flukehttps://www.amazon.in/Fluke-233-Remote-Display-Multimeter/dp/B002X7ZX00Thats close to a 700$ USD.And the number one complaint is about how leaking bats are taking out brand new meters look it up.Lucky for me I research this kind of stuff. And I coat all terminals with a light coat of petroleum jelly and I check on the cells at least once a month.I have a Fluke 105B Scope where the bat acid leaked and took out the keyboard membrane.Our locally made Every Ready bats seem to leak far less than these high end highly priced Duracell bats.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 09:36:52 am
content: Since it is a brand new meter, did you return it and let the seller deal with their supplier of meters?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 02:05:28 pm
content: I went to a car parts store here in Germany today and was shocked to learn that they are only selling Duracell car batteries.Allegedly, they had too many complains about other brands, so they switched to Duracell.Well, lets see if they leak as well and destroy some cars in the coming years.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 07:51:26 pm
content: I had those for like 4 years in a bootleg backup power thing for a pump and it works

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2023, 08:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 03, 2023, 04:37:48 pmQuote from: Fungus on October 10, 2023, 03:45:58 pmYes yes go on, a little bit more please. Nothing budges.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 09:28:40 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 04, 2023, 08:35:20 pmI wonder if a bit of acetic acid in the barrel might help loosen the cells by dissolving some of the alkaline encrustation? At this point, I don't think it could make things any worse...

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 12:24:14 pm
content: Wow, what a mess! - If you have a drill press - maybe drill straight down the middle of the cell(s) to hollow them out - then it might be possible to 'collapse' the remaining shells inwards with a screwdriver, and get them out? I agree with @AVGresponding that vinegar might dissolve the yuk, but it may take a long time for it to work its way down the sides.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 01:40:33 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 04, 2023, 08:35:20 pmThe problem is that the Maglite flashlights contain between two and five batteries so it would be nearly impossible to get the deepest ones out. As much as I like the Maglites, I don't buy them anymore because, eventually, a battery is going to destroy it. And it's not just getting batteries out that are a problem but the cap on the flashlight is aluminium on aluminium so the caps often weld themselves to the body of the flashlight.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 01:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: p.larner on October 10, 2023, 05:28:23 pmThe funny thing to me is that while the Chinese brand batteries leak, they don't seem to destroy things the way that the Duracell batteries do! I fixed three kid's toys this weekend that had old Chinese (probably OEM) batteries in them and all three worked fine after a bit of cleaning up the dried up electrolyte. None of battery contacts were corroded and no damage to any of the electronics. One of the toys was only made in 2001 and is a bit of a collector's item and had what appeared to be original batteries in it. The LCD display still worked (weakly) and the batteries shells were corroded as hell but I took them out and wiped up the electrolyte residue and it came off cleanly. I put in new batteries and the toy works fine.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 02:35:15 pm
content: My Kirkland Costco Batteries are leaking also.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 04:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on November 05, 2023, 02:35:15 pmBecause they are made by Duracell

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 05:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on November 05, 2023, 01:48:51 pmI suspect I mentioned this before, but several of my kids' toys came with AA-sized cells from the brand Tianqiu (shown in the attached photo) which, after a lot of abuse and being drained beyond anything that Duracells had to endure, they held together quite well. Unfortunately I can't find them for purchase to put them for further testing with a larger sample size.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 05:32:00 pm
content: Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on November 05, 2023, 02:35:15 pmI was at this firm about 12 years ago, they had these wireless mouse and keyboards that they got brand new and they started ordering those like in double pack.I saw them on Amazon and when I looked at the reviews I saw so many negative reviews that went past positive about them leaking.We started using rechargeables when I convinced them it would work out cheaper and to bin the Costco pack.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 05:59:52 pm
content: Screwed by leaking Duracell batteries? Screw 'em back! Give Proctor and Gamble the treatment they deserve, right up the arse.Filled the tube with acetic acid and soaked for a while and managed to get the first cell out."Assembled in America"with chinese? characters presumably warning "bad never use". They must just put them in the packaging in USA. exp. date Dec. 2024. Why leak then when you can leak now?On to the second cell, but no way it's coming out. Used a lot of force and the screw just ripped out.Maglite going in the garbage thanks to Duracell. Boycotting garbage Proctor and Gamble products for a while now, they buy great brands and cheapen the quality way too much as a Warren Buffet profit model, and then jack up prices to satisfy shareholders. Ridiculous.I'll fire off an email to Maglite because they could easily put a plastic tube inside, which I have seen with other products, to isolate the sides of the battery.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 06:25:56 pm
content: That conforms to my experience. The only Maglite I was able to fix, I did it from the bulb end: after removing the reflector and bulb, there is a small metal finger that acts as a switch that must be removed as well. Then the plastic plate on which the switch rests can be driven down using a punch to push both cells out the bottom of the tube.After this rough treatment the unit was still working (had to use vinegar and a bottle brush to remove all of the oxidized crud from the inside of the tube), although the odds are that it may have been destroyed instead. Especially the plastic "switch plate" could have broken.I may have soaked the stuck cells in liquid wrench prior to the punch-driving, I can't remember now.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 07:03:34 pm
content: I think maglite has a problem with their products because almost everything leaks in them. I run those on NiMH. Only cuz I ended up with a bunch of them, not because I bought any.I find them to be shitty flashlights anyway because the on-off switch mechanism is dodgy. I hate it. The the ones that have the feature like blinking, triggered by twisting the top, are totally unusable. lets fuck with the flashlight for 30 seconds before we get the mode we want.I really feel like its a troll brand flashlight. They were like good in the year 2000 because it was bright with the xenon bulb, but today compared to other offerings its dodgy.And there is some kinda other problem with them too, when they age, even unleaked, the fuckin circuit becomes unreliable. Like the threads. Even if you use silicone grease on the threads its still kinda bullshit. They go dim and you need to bang on it. Its like the horror movie/game flashlight that goes dim every once in a while where you need to tap it. I think thats a great feature for a videogame, so there is a idle animation.I recommend fenix brand AA flashlights. They don't have too many, but I am impressed. Aluminum head and plastic body, meaning you can leave it in the car in the winter and it does not freeze your hand off. Also they have a twist on that does not suck ass (twist ring switch).The maglite are ridiculous.For a work light I recommend the milwakee 2x AA battery side lamp with magnet base (fuckin useful as hell) and for a car flashlight I recommend the 4xAA fenix flashlight if its still sold. Guess not, LD42 is discontinued. I wonder why. I think it must have been the plastic. I thought it was cheap at first but then the first day I needed it when it was -10C I thought it was genius.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 07:24:35 pm
content: I have a large Maglite with 3 D cells that is a workhorse - bought new in early 2010s. I had two smaller ones that went to the trashcan due to leaking cells and their twisting mechanism to power on/off was garbage. After those two went to scrap, my dad bought me one of those black "tactical" flashlights and it works well, although the power on/off button and sequence of operations is indeed irritating but at least runs on an 18650. Fast forward a few years and I ended up inheriting all my dad's collection of tactical flashlights, so I am set for life now.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 07:41:28 pm
content: Internet advice is all over the place - use vinegar, WD40, just boil the flashlight in a pot of water etc. I'll add - toss it in the garbage. Major corrosion of the aluminum fueled by the batteries' steel case. I doubt there is a way to get the last battery out.Inside the Maglite tube it was anodized red like the outside body, and you can see the fractal etching that happened as the electrolyte leaked out and creeps due to ion migration.A replacement Maglite mini is CAD $50, USD $37, AUD $56. Oh and it could just as easily get killed again by leaking batteries. I did ask them, we'll see if they have an answer to this.Otherwise, we can't have nice things. Aliexpress flashlights are working pretty good for the price, 1/5th of Maglite Co.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 09:08:29 pm
content: QuoteGosh, they can't be accused of being cheap!QuoteSofirn could be well worth a look (for instance, the SC31 Pro). Side switch, so they are easy to turn on and off, but also small twist completely disconnects the battery for long-term storage. They run the open source Anduril firmware, and whilst they can be pretty complicated to use with a single on/off button, in practice they are dead simple because there is the 'advanced UI' for deep configuration and 'simple UI' that most users will go with. Importantly there is never the 'cycle through the modes' thing that other torches do.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2023, 09:09:50 pm
content: they seem good though to have quality emitters and solid construction with good user interface.I think the twist-on ones are the best, IDK if there is any in production still that have that featurebut beware the big ones, they use PCB-house of cards style production with solder joints linking boards stacked like a house. Unreliable. If they used a real interconnect there, like headers, possibly beefy ones, I would be impressed, but it seems they put alot of money into the machining but cheaped on the electronics interconnect hardware in the high power one. because its not like they don't have high current PCB interconnect solutions for vertical boards, or right angle standoffs, or anything like that, which you can put in a expensive electronics device. When I took it apart I thought 'hmm so you don't care'.for instancehttps://www.nextrongroup.com/News_detail/104/Board-to-Board-High-Current-Connector.htmlor just solder a fat bent square pin on. But of course some pro cheapass put two boards with a solder filletespecially if you call it a 'search and rescue' grade light source(if you drop it the solder joints snap)I consider it kind of like putting old beer bottles into a concrete cinder block wall as 'filler'

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 12:03:02 pm
content: Maybe itis time to move this thread to "Dodgy technology"

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 05:15:40 pm
content: Another instrument bites the dust.And these are the Industrial" series of Dura-Hell

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 07:24:18 pm
content: And these are the Industrial" series of Dura-HellYup, I just had one of these 'Industrial' Duraleaks leak in a clock. LuckilyI caught it just starting to form the white fuzz on the negative end. which was oriented pointing down,

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 07:30:21 pm
content: Follow up to my Duracell-destroyed Maglite from Post#245.I never could get the last battery out.I contactedMagliteand asked WTF you don't have a plastic tube or sleeve inside your products, to prevent leaky batteries from bonding along the entire length. Crickets about that. I also noted Maglite dumped Duracell and are using Energizer exclusively for some time now.They offer a (warranty) Trade In Program where you can exchange for similar or trade up to something new and brighter. USD $15-17 + tax for 2AA LED or 2AA LED PRO.But I have to ship the old flashlight back to them, and the thought of me paying to ship dead, leaky Duracell carcasses across the border is just further insult. I'm not sure the package would make it through US customs, resembling a bomb lol. It's around 85g but international parcel rates cheapest ends up USD $8. Supposedly I have to pay return shipping as well. Total would be at least USD $25 one way.Option #2... I contacted Duracell, and after getting the "tips for proper battery care and use" document sent to me several times - HINT: do not look at or think about Duracell batteries, this will cause leaking.They are sending me a cheque for replacement cost USD $40I'll let you know when that comes in, Warren Buffet might take a while to approve and sign it.Last time a Fluke multimeter was damaged from leaking Duracells, I told them replacement cost is CAD $485 and their was a squawk sound from the customer service rep on the phone. They thought I was a scammer. They are used to cheap flashlights, remote controls etc. getting damaged - nothing worth more than $40.Then they want me to ship the multimeter to Duracell, they will attempt repair. So insured package shipping costs a fair bit with no guarantee of the result. Just ridiculous.Cheaper to buy replacement chinese battery holder pieces "shrapnel" as they call them, and stuff that in.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2023, 07:32:37 pm
content: 'Industrial' = heavy duty leakers?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 10:55:57 am
content: We (the Royal We, I don't personally use them) go through quite a lot of these at work, AA and AAA, in laser levels. The green lasers especially eat batteries for fun, and I haven't seen a leak (yet), probably mostly due to the rapid turnover. I use NiMH LSD AAs in my levels, I'm not prepared to risk the hassle of getting one replaced. Incidentally those are the old colour, the new ones are grey.I do have a couple of AAAs in my Fluke voltstick that have been in there for years, and I suspect the reason they haven't leaked is because they are oriented anode down most of the time, in my pocket.There's a localised ad on Planet Rock radio at the moment that has an auto parts/service company advertising Duracell car batteries, with the slogan "trust is power", which can be read in more than one way...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2023, 03:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: madires on December 08, 2023, 07:32:37 pmThese are the first industrial leakers I had.I was almost under the impression that these would not leak.Bad assumption.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2023, 03:20:38 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on December 08, 2023, 05:15:40 pmSame it happened back in 2010 with my 54-II. Also Industrial Duracell, that at the time were Duracell Procell black, silver and red colour design.But I was able to clean and recover it, and sold it 2 months ago refurbished to someone in Hong Kong.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 09:47:32 pm
content: That's some genuine battery crud right there!

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 04:45:34 am
content: Guess what brand batteries inside?

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 08:00:09 am
content: Recently repaired an insulation tester that was damaged by leaking alkaline cells.I was please to discover that replacement battery box contacts are available.There are many shapes and sizes, some having small differences to each other. The plates are soft and easy to trim if too wide.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32884289489.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.5e2e177f01EGEs&algo_pvid=c09b2160-54cc-43c0-a358-22b1c8286216&algo_exp_id=c09b2160-54cc-43c0-a358-22b1c8286216-2&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%212.33%212.33%21%21%211.50%211.50%21%402103251317078264055975123e4c3b%2165603139327%21sea%21AU%21130254308%21&curPageLogUid=J92E6aVfTA9e&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 11:06:26 pm
content: Not actually Durahell, but I'm buying these because they aren't those.So, off to Amazon to buy another set of GP Ultra. But, wait, there is also GP Extra. Hmm. Wonder what the difference is, so off to theGP websitewhere I find there is also the Super and Ultra Plus. But nowhere does it tell you WTF the difference is (other than green, gold or purple packaging).Anyone got a clue?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 12:50:20 am
content: Can you get their datasheets? I am pretty sure it is capacity.Although there's always the possibility of sleazy marketing...

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 01:04:10 am
content: s/possibility/probability

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 08:16:31 pm
content: What are Philips alkaline batteries like?? Are they worth buying? They are made in China, so are they rebranded GoldPeak, Camelion or Zhejiang Mustang?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 08:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on November 18, 2024, 08:16:31 pmI would generally avoid any batteries that say "Ultra" or "High power" or other such marketing terms on the packaging. This is likely to mean the batteries have been formulated with very active chemicals, and these active chemicals are what promote leaking.These are the kind I like to buy. Note the absence of any marketing upsell or buzzwords, and also the reassuring text "designed not to leak in your devices"

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 09:40:29 pm
content: I get that type of AA cell (probly from the same sources in China as yours) at my local "dollar" store (now $1.25). Pretty good deal. The "brand" I'm currently using is "e-Circuit". They've shown decent performance so far, and haven't had a single one leak.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 09:40:49 pm
content: just a warning about fenix, their USB-C charging stuff is dodgy. I had two broken lights. Tech support was giving me the run around trying to blame me so I threw them out because it was testing my patience too much. They tried to blame me when the inside of their premium flashlight smells like toasted transistor, and then blame my charger, and some how thought that I might be 'turning it on wrong'.They don't make the AA one I like anymore, but maybe there is others. I think they have some problem with their USB-C thing, so charge the cells outside of the light!One had a transistor blow up in my pocket (keychain ER60C light), after light use earlier in the day, and the other one failed after charging (bigger more expensive light), both were bought within like 1 month of each other.I think their little keychain light had a creative 'thermal bridge' idea using some kind of glue shit, and it lead to a transistor disappearing. Maybe they should put a silicon nitride jumper for that money they charge. I did not take apart the bigger one yet because its a band saw jobI think they have some hardware bug where if you turn it off and plug it in too fast it breaks, maybe something to do with charge being present in the circuit, because the charger is fine (like 5 other expensive gadgets did not break)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 10:05:55 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 18, 2024, 09:40:49 pmDid you post this in the right thread?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 10:13:21 pm
content: I gave a recommendation here for fenix in this thread and I just wanna make sure I don't make it sound too good with recent experience.but my AA fenix light has survived being in the car for several years now.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 11:12:50 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on November 18, 2024, 08:16:31 pmI buy only the cheapest alkalines i can find and they never leak.The only time i had a cheap alkaline leak was when it was included in my cheap chinese welding mask, so the battery was of unknown origin.Besides that the only alkalines i've ever had leak were durasmells.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 12:57:35 pm
content: I've spent the last hour recovering my Peak DCA75 Pro semiconductor tester after an AAA Durahell battery leak. Cell voltage was still fine.Lotsof crust but apart from some corrosion on the spring and a little bit of solder resist loss, no permanent damage. It responded well to the usual vinegar - water - IPA treatment.Just a timely reminder to check your battery operated kit. A few more weeks and I would probably have lost it.P.S. I've put in one of their 'Simply' low drain ones. I wonder if thereissomething that makes the high drain ones more likely to leak. Time and regular inspection will tell.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:25:25 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on November 26, 2024, 11:12:50 amSame here. I get my AAs at the dollar store*. Current brand is "eCircuit", red & yellow cells made in China, of course.Work fine, never leak. Seem comparable to name brands (Duracell, Rayovac, etc.).*Which is no longer $1; everything there is now $1.25.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 10:39:05 pm
content: ... by happy chance I saved my Lenovo mouse from a durahell today - I was trying to get an old inkjet working and used my Lenovo thinkcentre? for the first time this year - the mouse battery had started to corrode in the holder - prized it out and cleaned the contacts, seems to work - thumb-wheel is flaky, but probably was before.