LFS[EU]: schuko socket with GFCI/RCD protection - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2014, 10:50:19 pm
content: I am looking for a schuko socket with GFCI protection build in. Socket that could be plugged into ungrounded socket and provide some local GFCI/RCD and fault current protection.It could be either single plug or multiple plug output.I am looking for something like this:Socket with GFP/RCD protectionDevice above has 30mA trip current - this is GFP, not GFCI. I am looking for 5 mA, not 30 mARequirements:trips on 4-6 mAplugs into schuko1(preferable) or more schuko outputshas test and reset buttonsfault current protection - 1-10 A, specific rating not importanthas proper safety ratings and markingsCould somebody identify source for such item in EU(with shipping)/LT/LV/PL?Thanks

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 04:31:24 am
content: Er, 'GFP' and 'GFCI' are the same thing. An RCCB is an RCCB, whether it's rated for 5mA or 500mA (yes, those exist).Why do you want as low as 5mA anyway?

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:16:28 am
content: Device nomenclature and working principles are the same. However, 30 mA is forequipmentprotection. 5 ma is forpersonnelprotection.30 mA sockets is sometimes used for aquarium protection or multiple socket protection.I am looking for 5 mA personnel protection.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:22:07 am
content: .. 30mA is the norm for contact protection.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:27:17 am
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 20, 2014, 10:50:19 pmIn the EU 30mA is the current for human protection since that is about the current that can make your heart stop beating if it would go through the heart region.For washingmachines there were 300mA and 500mA current versions, they are forbidden now for new home installations.If you are looking for 5mA than you must expect that it will trip a lot on false positives, I have never seen it.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:28:19 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 21, 2014, 08:22:07 amYes, 30 mA is a standard value, just as 5 mA.Are you sure that 30 mA is for personnel protection as well? US NEC standard is pretty clear that GFCI for personnel protection is 5 mA, equipment protection is 30 mA or higher for special cases. EU should have similar requirements.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:30:16 am
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 21, 2014, 08:28:19 amYes, quite sure. Instead of reading the NEC and treating it as gospel, you should read standards appropriate to your location.I have only ever seen <30mA fitted to equipment intended to be used in wet environments.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:32:43 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on November 21, 2014, 08:27:17 am30 mA seems very high for person protection.Could you provide EU related regulations and sources about GFCI and 30 mA limit?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:33:55 am
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 21, 2014, 08:32:43 amEU regs: Who knows. Have a flick through BS7671 if you want. It's quite the read.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:36:50 am
content: I read in the Wiki that the US have stricter rules indeed, better stick to your local rules instead of global forum advicehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_deviceQuote

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:41:33 am
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 21, 2014, 08:32:43 amCorrection, I was quoting the current dutch regulation called the NEN1010. AFAIK Germany and Belgium do the same, but perhaps someone from other EU country can add and comment on their regulations.I am not 100% sure if all EU countries have the same exact rules or that there are now new EU regulations for all countries. If you look at all the different mains sockets and connectors that is still a long way to go

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:42:33 am
content: QuoteQuoteThere you go, trawled out of BS7671 just for you.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 09:35:00 am
content: Looking through BS7671 and NEN1010, it is mentioned that 30 mA is for human protection RCD, more for equipment (100/300/500 mA). Other links from these documents suggest that 30 mA is considerably safe if tripped after short duration.Additional types of protection are mentioned, but these have to do with voltage levels/insulation/general system protection/etc., but not directly lowering RCD trip current. Also, 30 mA is a max value, lower values (5-10mA) can be used if you don't fear accidental tripping.RCD handbook, UKThanks for the links

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 07:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 20, 2014, 10:50:19 pmNote that item linked above (plug-in socket with 30 mA GFCI protection) should be operated inverticalposition only (as shown in picture). Possibly due to relay and switch arrangement similar to that of typical fusebox.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 07:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on November 21, 2014, 07:09:56 pmIt's most likely an attempt to ensure polarity.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 21, 2014, 07:12:42 pmSchuko plug/socket is not polarised (strictly speaking), but wiring inside some styles of schuko plugs are consistent and "pseudo" polarised (brown/blue/green-yellow on the same plug contacts when plug is asymmetric). "Asymmetric" plug with a socket for earthConnections on RCD socket go straight though a relay to output, so no strict polarity can be certain.Looking closer at RCD socket it seems that requirement for vertical position is most likely due to possible water ingress if it is operated outside (hinge is opening up). It is IP54 rated.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 11:35:54 pm
content: IP54 rating for a device which can't ensure an IP rated mating to the socket.Yay, pointlessness.