JBC CD-1BQE - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 11:51:44 am
content: After watchingDave's Soldering Iron Power Delivery videoI decided to buy a new JBC CD-1BQE soldering station. I own a Hakko FX951 which is nice but, like the 888D, it has the issue that it can't keep up with high heat-sink soldering jobs. For a long time, I've owned and used an Aoyue 2900 soldering station with the tips that plug into the handle and this has worked OK but the build quality of the Aoyue is poor to say the least, the elements have intermittent contact in the handle which I solve by twisting them around but, whenever this happens, the base unit beeps loudly. The plastic cover over the buttons keeps coming off but the heat performance of the Aoyue is the only thing I have that works for parts like large SMT power transistors that I have designed heatsink vias onto the PCB for and I'd like a better tool for that role.The Aoyue seems to be no longer available so, given that this is a tool of my trade, I decided to order the JCB which was a brand I wasn't even aware existed until I saw Dave's video and, at $500 for the JBC 1BQE + 3 tips (C245001, C245030, and C245061) from Tequipment.net (with the eevblog discount) it'sVERYexpensive IMHO. Hope I'm going to like it.If I weren't so busy, I'd design a replacement base unit for the $74 T210 handle as an open source project; fromthis threadit seems the design of the JBC base unit isn't that good.Once my new JCB soldering station arrives, I'll let you know what I think.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:03:31 pm
content: I will be the first of the fanboys to pop up. You could have gotten a used Metcal MX-500 with a tip for about half that price. You can solder 2 1962 Volkswagon bumpers together with it. OK, so maybe I exaggerate a bit.The MX-500 is production grade, will last forever, no knob fiddling and can easily solder anything you need to. Hope you enjoy the JBC. I also have a FX-951 which I bought before the Metcal. I looked at JBC but it was too rich for my blood at the time and it didn't come with tips so I got the Hakko and 5 tips with tip holders for quite a bit less.

author: martin1454
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:13:22 pm
content: Nice! im also looking into buying a CD-2BQE soon - Just awating for the right discountIt is pricey, but after playing a bit around with one of those, a weller WX1 and a metcal, I prefer the JBC -let me know if you design that tool stand

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:44:06 pm
content: Hmmm, if you go to banggood.com and search for "T12", you get a bunch of cheap 24V irons that use what look like clones of a Hakko tip in the $25 to $50 range. The user reviews are pretty good; has anyone tried any of these?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:50:29 pm
content: I bought one of these JBC clones and it works well but I didn't need to ! After watching Defpoms video of the KSGER Hakko fx951 replacement controller it is by far a better controller than the original Hakko controller and has the ability to accurately calibrate each tip which no other iron controller offers !

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 01:00:18 pm
content: Damn, looks like I just spent $450 more than I needed to I was able to cancel the order. Tequipment.net are just great to deal with.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 01:33:01 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 04, 2019, 01:00:18 pmWhat are you going to buy? T12 clone? If so, there is a recent thread comparing it to other soldering stations:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/t12-clone-vs-metcal-sp200/(unfortunately it turned into bike-sheding).I have ksger for about two years. For the price the performance is great, but I struggled with lead-free stuff. The thread above suggests there are better soldering stations. I'd say if you do lead-free it's worth getting a better station, but not sure which one. There are not that many reviews with convincing benchmarks.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 02:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: exe on June 04, 2019, 01:33:01 pmThis is a good point as all of my investigations have been done with leaded solder only as most of my rework and repairs will be done using leaded solder. It would be good to compare it with unleaded solder. Perhaps the JBC and the clone with its maximum power of 120 watts may win out over the Hakko T12.cheers

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 02:21:13 pm
content: I'm thinking the KSGER T12 from Banggood, I watchedDEFPOM'sEQUALIZOR's video and it looks awfully good for the money; around $100 should get me a unit with a load of tips and an iron holder, maybe even the aluminum or stainless steel handle. If I also bought a calibrator, I could perform the calibration that DEFPOM demos.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 02:22:56 pm
content: At $270 for the JBC clone from Jabe, I might as well buy the actual JBC unit. How many watts is the KSGER T12 unit? [EDIT 1] It seems it's 70W [EDIT 2] the v2.1S hardware may be as much as 120W (24V x 5A) PSU.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 03:40:37 pm
content: OK, call me cheap if you want but...I just ordered the following from Banggood...- KSGER V2.1S T12 Digital Temperature Controller Soldering Station Electric Soldering Iron Tips T12-K + 9501 Handle- KSGER NEW Type STM32 OLED T12 Soldering Handle Digital Temperature Controller Electric Soldering Irons Handle Metal DIY Set- 10pcs T12 Soldering Iron Tips Set for HAKKO FX951 FX952 (T12-k T12-BC2 T12-BL T12-BC1 T12-BC3 T12-ILS T12-D16 T12-KU T12-D12 T12-J02)- DANIU FG-100 Soldering Iron Tip Thermometer Temperature Detector Tester 0-700℃- KSGER Soldering Iron Stand Holder Iron Tip Clean Ball Electric Iron Rosewood Soldering IronAnd the whole lot was about $115 with shipping; the actual KSGER V2.1S is coming from the US, the rest from China. The AL handle is also a kit but I figured that it would be OK to understand how that goes together and I get a plastic handle with the main unit anyway.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 05:15:39 pm
content: I think ksger is a lot of value for money anyway. Another point is, unless you do a lot of soldering, you don't really need the best soldering station all the time. The difference in performance most of the time is not noticeable.Also, when soldering big polygons, I think it's OK to raise the temperature. It may not be acceptable for production, but for single assembly/repairement you don't need 100% compliance with industry standards, etc. Just get things done with tools you have.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 01:56:09 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 04, 2019, 02:22:56 pmI got mine from aliexpress for about $178 before I found out about the KSGER. But from what others have said I may still need it for lead free solderinghttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Jabe-UD-1200-Precision-Lead-free-Soldering-Station-Smart-2-5S-Rapid-Heating-with-Dual-Channel/32957504908.html

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 02:44:05 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 04, 2019, 02:21:13 pmI got two of them now with the fancy quick change aluminium hand pieces. I have put my clunky Hakko fx-951 controllers back in their packing boxesBTW you may have to spray a bit of CRC 226 lube down the shaft to easily remove and insert the tips otherwise they tend to stick to the rubber grommets and drag them outAlso another good deal for aussies is the PACE ADS200 from TE Equipment but it's 120VAC unfortunatelyNot sure if the voltage can be changed but the tips are cheaper than JBC but performance may not be as good.https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/ADS200-8007-0578/Soldering-Stations/

author: djnz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 08:53:41 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 05, 2019, 02:44:05 amhttps://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0580/soldering-station-with-tool-stand/dp/2893440https://au.element14.com/pace/8007-0581/soldering-station-with-isb-tool/dp/2893441

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 09:51:16 am
content: Talk about impulse purchasing going from a JBC to a Chinese T12 clone, oh man!The Pace ADS200 has slightly less power than the JBC, 120W vs 130W but it's diminishing returns as you go past 100W. Paces tips are mostly between ~$11-$13 each and are designed for long lasting all day production use so well plated, low cost, high quality. The best features is its very accurate, fast heating, minimal overshoot, no calibration required for tips and the iron itself is cool running with a small working distance.Pace has the best aluminum iron design and adjustable temp technology out there, it heats to melt point in as little as 3 seconds from room temp. There is no soldering iron on the planet that has better performance for the price which is around $200-$220 from tequipment for the 120V model.Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 04, 2019, 11:51:44 amThe KSGER is using clone Hakko T12 70W tips so no real technology upgrade from the Hakko FX-951. The Hakko FX-888D has 65W tips slower recover but higher mass tips which improves things a little. Irons with less mass and less temperature accuracy seem better to inexperienced users.The Pace ADS200 station and certain JBC irons have tips with more mass than the T12 and combined with their power and recovery speed allow them to solder both low and high mass applications easier.

author: 4thDoctorWhoFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:25:43 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 04, 2019, 12:03:31 pmI agree. I love my MX-500.Reading some of these posts is funny because of all the equipment & messing around needed just to solder.With the Metcal, I just turn it on then solder. Very simple.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:43:50 am
content: Quote from: 4thDoctorWhoFan on June 05, 2019, 10:25:43 amPace is the same you just turn it on and by the time you reach for the iron its at temp. But one $11 tip can solder at any temperature (same for JBC just more expensive). After everything is taken into account Metcal is 10 times the running costs of Pace.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:44:06 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 05, 2019, 09:51:16 amI knowbuyers remorse and all that - although I feel good that I saved $400 in the end.I'm sure the JBC would have been a good station but is it 5 x better than the KSGER? I think it might be 2x better and at $250 would be a no-brainer but there are still aspects to it that reek of poor design.I already have a Hakko FX951 which is good for light work (even lead-free) and the Aoyue 2900 is a beast in terms of thermal performance even though it's high-maintenance. All I do is build the occasional prototype or change a component or 2 in fault-finding; I also have an Aoyue hot air rework station so I think I have most bases covered now.As for my idea of making a replacement station; it seems that I'm always behind the curve and someone's beat me to the product. The control unit PCB for the KSGER T12 seems widely available for around $20, maybe a tweak of that unit to handle higher voltage/wattage might be an option? The power supply in the KSGER is supposed to be 24V / 5A which is 120W and upping the voltage slightly to say 29V would get me 145W.Anyway, thanks for all the info and advice.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 10:54:52 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 05, 2019, 09:51:16 amNot quite according to this dude the JBC outperforms the Pace but then I heard the Pace had some issues with its first batch of tips.Having said that I have owned a Pace PPS-15 and PS/80 and PS/90 handsets for the last two decades and it still keeps up with the JBC and Hakko direct heat irons according to the copper clad tests that Dave has done. Probably attributable to huge thick heating barrel, thick tips and secure grub screw arrangement that keeps the tip tightly in contact with the heater. A great iron that is still going strong. Not sure if it can handle lead free soldering though.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 12:00:40 pm
content: If I'm designing a 'normal' project, I use 0603 SMT components unless wattage requires me to go bigger. For smaller designs, I use 0402s and I've recently been forced to switch a few parts out to 0201s to make stuff fit. I use an Amscope trinocular stereo microscope to work under and, even then, 0201 is truly the limit on what's possible in terms of hand-built prototyping. Under such conditions, a small-tipped and tightly temperature-controlled iron is essential; such as my Hakko FX951. Some designs go the other way with vias under high-wattage parts to sink heat to ground planes, these need high performance large irons such as the Aoyue 2900 with large tips. I see the KSGER T12 and being biased towards the smaller end but I will wait until I get it and confirm.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 12:21:13 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 05, 2019, 10:44:06 amAre you aware the Hakko T12 and T15 series 70w tips are the same as your Hakko FX-951 75W station uses? The clone T12 tips won't be any better than what you currently have.Aliexpress says the Ksger is 75W (120W Max). 120W looks like a power supply maximum specification to me not the tip power consumption. I hope you're not expecting Pace and JBC performance after buying the Ksger. You are buying a cheap interface replacement with a smps.Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 05, 2019, 10:44:06 amI'd recommend Pace over the JBC. The Pace ADS200 is still fairly new so it's a case of getting the word out there till people realize the benefits. It doesn't have a fancy display, so if you weren't aware that Paces makes high performane stations you wouldn't know.

author: Analog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 12:29:05 pm
content: If you are having difficulties due to thermal sinking try using a board warmer. Bringing up the board temp with hot air and then making the repair really helps. I don't believe it is possible to safety solder some boards otherwise. I have a $50 warmer that really helps out.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 12:45:03 pm
content: Thanks all, I wasn't aware that the Hakko T15 tips were interchangable with the T12 tips. My Hakko has an FM-2027 soldering iron which uses T15 series tips but changing the temperature is an absolute pain with having to insert the plastic thing and the do some form of ctl+alt+delete to change the settings! Some commentators have said they prefer the KSGER to the Hakko for this reason alone.I was aware of Pace and their high-end soldering gear and I have used the hot air rework station to preheat PCBs.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 01:21:34 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 05, 2019, 10:54:52 amThe batch issue was fixed straight away and that video is the early Pace firmware 1.2 which jumps all over the place.I've seen that video before it's a bit of a joke if you ask me. Aside from the firmware changes that guy is using temp setback like an instant on switch. If the JBC was at 350C why was it delivering 37% power straight afterwards? It also lands on 350C so perfectly like magic. From what I've seen JBC has more aggressive heating profile. Less tip plating makes it appear more thermally responsive.It's hard to draw exact comparisons for those reasons but I would say all things being equal it's closer that it looks. The Pace as of firmware 1.4 now displays and is set in single degrees, they also slightly improved the performance as well.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 01:28:45 pm
content: There is a lot of love to the new pace soldering iron. However, I think its performance is greatly exaggerated. Dave clearly showed that jbc solders better at the same temperature. Not "a bit better", but really better. It's not in the same league with jbc and metcal. Of course at this point people start pointing at the price, but to me it looks like backpedaling. BTW, is it universally accessible for the advertised price? People reported real pricing was almost twice higher than MSRP.Second, I'm yet to see how pace compares to ksger (which I bought for ~$40 delivered, controller without PSU can be got twice cheaper, afaik) and how much more value it brings. No doubt who will win, but I want to see the difference in numbers.Third, t12 didn't become worse just because someone release a new iron.I'd say ADS200 is overhyped. One real thing (tm) that can be "a game changer" about pace is support for tweezers. Will see in August.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 02:47:42 pm
content: Dave was using a low soldering temperature on a high thermal mass. As I mentioned old firmware and there are differences in the heating profile and tip plating between stations. It's not a comparable test.If you look at the Pace station it's hardly moving off temp so no proper thermal bridge was established. There were small differences, like the geometry favored the JBC tip (it was shorter) and I got the impression it was running hotter from the thermometer test. Being used on a mound of solder and kept consistently on the joint may help it establish a thermal bridge faster. Once that happens of course the heat is going to dump into the joint and the station regulates the deficiency which is where overshoot comes into play.The Pace is designed with a very conservative heating profile to maintain temp accuracy. It's a little easier to see in the latest firmware which has single digit resolution.It's a great station, pity there are no videos showing any actual proper soldering with it yet. Pace mentioned distributors set their own prices, at least the 120V model is cheap in the US. Yeah can't wait to see the tweezers are like.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 02:55:37 pm
content: I can get the Jabe UD-1200 from Alibaba shipped DHL to the USA, 110V with English menu for $220 US. I'm tempted after watching DEFPOM's review, especially as it has English menu. What are the tips used in this? I assume they are the same as the JBC iron it clearly copies? From the pictures, it looks pretty certain that the tips are the (more popular) C245 range, all the Jabe tips in the pictures are marked 2245-xxx and they look physically the same. I was also happy to get the English menu system.Anyway, I just placed the order; maybe Donnie-2 scoops' tariffs will bite me in the ass but whatever, I can spend more on a night out in a good restaurant than I paid for the Jabe, $223 shipped via DHL.

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 03:34:59 pm
content: Great question, because the JBC tips are grossly over priced...

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 04:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 05, 2019, 02:55:37 pmI don't think the video above showing the JBC clone was Defpoms.In that video play close attention to how the JBC overshoots by 20C then sits solidly on 450C while soldering. Then the clone lands instantly on a perfect 450C and starts dipping while soldering. Overshooting while soldering looks hidden in both firmware.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 06:50:28 pm
content: I'm a bit uncomfortable with Jabe because of the price. Chinese t12 was (and is) a real breakthrough as one could buy a controller for $20 (now it's ~$30, still affordable) and power it from a laptop brick. This gave access to high-performance soldering to everyone.This Jabe costs >$200 (+customs, no way such a big box will go unnoticed). At this price point I'm personally more into a "real brand".

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 07:10:44 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 05, 2019, 04:26:22 pmMaybe that's why the Jabe takes a little bit longer? Is an 20C overshoot worse or better? I don't know.In the end I've bought 2 units for just over $300 instead of one for $515 and I need another unit for my second home/cottage. The US customs seems never to intercept small parcels and packages from anywhere, there's some value (I think it's $800, per person, per day) at which they ignore stuff so they aren't nickel and dimeing small buyers like us.

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 07:39:01 pm
content: Just ordered 2 of these...https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/CD-1BQE/Soldering-Stations/

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 11:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: SoundTech-LG on June 05, 2019, 07:39:01 pmLOL, the thread goes full circle and Tequipment.net sells 2 instead of 1!

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:37:23 am
content: Quote from: SoundTech-LG on June 05, 2019, 07:39:01 pmWhat's the difference between 1BQE and 2BQE ? Is it the mains voltage ?https://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/jbc-stations/jbc-compact-soldering-station-230v-cartridges-not-included.html

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 01:52:13 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 06, 2019, 01:37:23 amA quick glance at tequipment.net shows all of the models starting with "2" are 230V. So looks like that is all it is.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:03:20 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 05, 2019, 11:54:11 pmFunny how that works. I bought a JBC DDE about three years ago around tax refund time. I love having the 245/210 (regular/micro) handles loaded with different cartridges and ready to go. Having two hand pieces also works great as ghetto hot tweezers. I guess it was a bit of a splurge on my part, but I have never regretted that particular purchase.I hope your new equipment works out great, and gives you the performance you are looking for. My Hakko 888 worked great for getting me started, but I can't say I've missed it at all these past years.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:44:10 am
content: Quote from: JxR on June 06, 2019, 02:03:20 amI can see that my Hakko FX951 may be looking for a new owner soon, it's like new but the inability to change temperature easily is really annoying. Is the 210 handle compatible with the 245 in terms of plugging it into a station? It sounds as though the micro bits may be what I need to do the really small work and I could buy just the handle and bits and plug them into my Jabe station. Equalizor's video on the Jabe says (at the very very end) that you can't plug the 210 handle into the UD-1200

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 02:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: JxR on June 06, 2019, 02:03:20 amHonestly I wouldn't let that deter you if what ever you buy will be using a JBC handpiece. There is alot of overlap on the tips between the 245/210. Its only the smallest tips where the 210 has some versions that are not on the 245, and those are not going to have the greatest thermal transfer. If I had to choose between one or the other, I would definitely choose the 245 hand piece. I typically don't go smaller than 0603 components for my own projects, and the 245 has tips that work just fine for those.

author: SoundTech-LG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 08:47:48 pm
content: Actually we have a whole building full of these older BD-2BA stations... just replacing a few that got coffee spilled into them, etc...

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 12:51:28 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 05, 2019, 10:43:50 amDepends on whether you buy new or used. Nothing wrong with a used MX-500. I scored a crazy deal trading some stuff I got for free at the local surplus store and by the time I was done, I have the PSU, Talon tweezers and stand, added NOS RM-3E wand and base and 8 tips for just north of $200 USD. Metcal tips are getting a bit pricey but Thermaltronics makes tips that work for under $20 USD. I have spent as little as $10 for a tip.If you are willing to wait and hunt, there are deals to be had. Shock, I know you love your Pace, but you will never persuade me to give up my Metcal!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:26:34 am
content: When looking at stations it's clear some don't accurately show the tip temperature or overshoot when heating this gives a false indication of speed. Plus to get an idea of performance you need to at least compare stations with a tip thermometer and start by checking the calibration before testing.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/disappointed-with-jbc/I read this thread a while ago, the Performance Comparison attached was for the JBC BD-2A station with T245-A handpiece. If you look at the recovery the JBC is overshooting, except at 400C it must have forgot to on that occasion.From observing the slope and the stations I have a fair idea it's using an aggressive profile and recovering faster by applying more heating cycles. The problem in doing this is maintaining temperature accuracy and giving a false indication of performance. It's hard to do a side by side comparison without constantly observing the temperature especially with long dwell times which would favor the more aggressive profile.This performance comparison was not the CD-1BQE station but I expect they are still doing similar. This is not about hating on JBC stations it's to highlight comparing stations and making assumptions on performance without complete data i.e. software, tip geometry and construction.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 01:41:43 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2019, 12:51:28 amCongrats on the score, Heh no I would never do that. The only station people should be persuaded from buying now is the Hakko FX-951 (possibly the Hakko FX-203 in the future).

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 03:23:30 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2019, 12:51:28 amBut you can't easily change the tip temperature on a Metcal because it is totally fixed by the tip you are using. This reminds me of the old Weller WTCPN soldering stations with the fixed tip temperatures.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 07:05:18 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 01:26:34 amI think this is a good feature, esp. if it can be turned on and off. Or, put it another way, adjustable PID settings.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 07:39:54 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 07, 2019, 03:23:30 amDepends what you mean by easily, but you can change to a different series tip to adjust the temp that's how Metcals work. That was the point I was making before, in order to solder at different temperatures it's about 10 times the cost of Pace (or about 3 times the cost of JBC), I'm sure GreyWoolfe is well aware of this though.His Metcal MX-500 is still a good upgrade on the Hakko FX-951 and T12 series for recovery speed. But just because Metcal is Metcal it doesn't mean all the stations and irons are going to be the same. In the performance test JBC did (if that can even be trusted) it showed the Metcal PS800 taking over 45 seconds to reach set temp. I bet they cherry picked it for that reason.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 08:04:28 am
content: Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 07:05:18 amYeah it must be switchable in firmware. Ersa calls it power level, if you look at the PDF I posted before you can see the huge overshoot on the Ersa.I've mentioned it to Pace, obviously its a good feature if you just want pure performance and don't care about overshoot. I'm not sure if they want to market the Accudrive series as the Inaccudrive though hahah. I just had a big pointless discussion before about IPC standards, this might have been part of Paces motivation behind a new more accurate high power station.I don't have the latest standard but IPC J-STD-001F states:"A-2b Equipment should be able to maintain control within ±10°C [+18°F] of the selected or required temperature during multiple point-to-points or thermal mass on demand soldering operations to verify temperature stability."

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 08:04:28 amI have two points about this.First, the standard you are referring to is for "electronics assembly manufacturing". Nowadays people use reflow for most part of the work. May be some final assembly (bigger connectors, etc) can use some manual labor, but a) temperature precision is not that important for connectors b) quality is controlled by visual inspection. I think here many people will agree with me that even "horrible poor performing overshooting JBC" does a great job, even though its default profile may not potentially comply to something.Second, JBC claims for those who need compliance they have 25 profiles for different workflows, including the standard you mentioned:https://www.jbctools.com/new-compact-station-with-soldering-profiles-news-170.html. For their modular system they claim they have compliant profiles.I also don't get where 10x/3x/whatever price difference comes from. JBC is indeed expensive, but it doesn't mean you have to have the whole range of tips. Many people solder with just two or three different tips. Instead of buying 10 different variants of chisel, I'd buy one chisel, one blade, may be one for qfp-32, and one with a cavity for wave soldering. Most of these are not even offered for Pace.Anyway, if someone wants to throw their non-compliant JBC away, please let me know, I'll help with reducing e-waste.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 10:45:01 am
content: Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 amMy point was mainly that software/control can be used to exaggerate performance by reducing the overall temperature accuracy of the station. It has to be a consideration at some point. The clone in the video appeared faster than the original JBC which is hilarious.Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 amMetcal have different series tips that cover different soldering temperatures. Compared to JBC or Pace, Metcal is about 3-10 times more expensive for variable temp functionality.Quote from: exe on June 07, 2019, 08:40:55 amPace does chisels, miniwave (concave tip) and some blades, SOIC, QFP, TQFP have been added but not everything is moved over to the Accudrive series yet. If the Accudrive series follows what they did with Intelliheat I would expect it to grow with the release of the new stations and handpieces.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 11:14:15 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 07, 2019, 10:45:01 amI'm not sure which video you are talking about, but I comment anyway.JBCs performance was greatly mystified because no other brand could get close to it (except metcal). But I think the reason is simply no-one tried hard-enough. The big brands divided the market, they get their profit share, why invest into research?Then Chinese t12 clones came, as well some DIY stations (unisolder and a few from youtube) and original developments like ts100/ts80. They show good performance. Looking at schematics I don't see any "know-how". It's just a pid-controller. For a soldering station, it doesn't need to be fancy, nor to be super-fast or precise. An STM32 with built-in 12bit ADC seems to do well. So, just a mcu, a power supply, a mosfet and a display is that all is needed.So, I don't see why a Chinese clone cannot compete with big brands. Esp., if overshooting is allowed. I'd say Chinese companies have an advantage because they have much more freedom. Say, they don't need to supply service and spare part for next 20 years, they don't need to comply with some standards that may not be of interest of most customers, etc. They can experiment with UI, with graphic displays, rotary encoders etc. Big brands either cannot do it, or afraid of it so they don't piss off existing customers.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 12:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 05, 2019, 12:21:13 pmWhatever the specs suggest, the KSGER has arrived and it's a little beast. The actual unit was shipped from the USA but it only came with 1 tip, the one that looks like a fat Xacto knife, but I'm warming to it. The heat delivery is excellent, way better than the Hakko FX-951 and the standby and sleep funtions well implemented. One thing I discovered today was that a sleeping KSGER will come up RUNNING if the mains power goes out for a second or 2 which happened to me this morning - it's possible that there's a menu item to fix this.I looked inside and the PCB build quality is OK but they were in a hurry soldering stuff together, when I have time I'll take it apart and improve it as well as grounding the case which is a bad oversight having 115V coming into a case that's not grounded.My Jabe UD-1200 115V English menus also shipped today from Alibaba.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 10:27:39 pm
content: I'm wondering how the heat delivery of the KSGER can be way better than the FX-951? More overshoot in the programming? Inaccurate temperature display? Keep in mind that temperature cycling and accurate setback temperature probably affects the tip life.I wonder if there will be any third party programming for the Pace ADS200 with more aggressive ramp up curves and maybe a bit of overshoot? Perhaps in time.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 03:16:21 am
content: Quote from: labjr on June 10, 2019, 10:27:39 pmmaybe similar heat delivery but the user interface on the fx-951 controller is brain dead and almost useless. The KSGER controller has a nice feature in that you can accurately calibrate each tip and add the calibration profile to a library of predefined T12 tip models thus making sure each tip works at its correct temperature. Don't know any other controller that has this feature. One of the perks of open source diy which is not limited by some MBA dickhead breathing down your neck for more shareholder returncheers

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 08:26:19 am
content: Yeah, I think ksger UI almost nailed it. I'd change behavior a little bit (I'd make temperature change the default action, but I can live with current behavior). Rotary encoders FTW!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 09:20:11 am
content: Quote from: labjr on June 10, 2019, 10:27:39 pmCould be anything or nothing, easy to look at a more responsive displays and be mislead. I'd start by characterizing the tip, seeing if requires an offset and using the same tip in both stations. Measure the output voltage, check the tip calibration and get a feel for the overshoot with temperature thermometer. Then count heating cycles.QuoteWell recovery is still fast, from what I can the curve only softens near set temp so I doubt nothing is lost in performance. It just means if a station has overshoot its the same as if someone had turned the set temp up 10-20 degrees etc. The Pace has a fairly simple circuit design so eventually someone will substitute in their own micro and software.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 09:31:10 am
content: Use the force Shock; let go!Seriously, rather than wonder why we like a $50 soldering station better than a $500 one, why not go get one and try it? My biggest complaint so far is that KSGER got the abbreviation for Thursday wrong.If the KSGER interface is open source, can anyone point to where it is on Github?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 09:55:59 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 11, 2019, 09:31:10 amI'm afraid it's not. However, there might be an alternative opensource firmware...

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 10:17:09 am
content: Quote from: exe on June 11, 2019, 09:55:59 amptdreamer wrote alternative code for what looks like the KSGER, check outhis blog page hereand there's also a Github page that has all his code. My thought is this... The PCB that ptdreamer reverse-engineered is not the same as the one that's in my KSGER stations - in mine the iron connector is a 5 or 6 pin connector on a PCB extension that's clearly designed to be snapped off. However, if it's basically the same circuit then we have the basis for an open-source hardware and firmware solution.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 11:56:12 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 11, 2019, 09:31:10 amHaha! Nah I'm good, I got plenty of soldering stations to keep me occupied. The next handpiece I'll be looking at is the new aluminum tweezers for the ADS200.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 12:21:14 pm
content: Anecdotal Tales from the Bench part 301I've just been doing a soldering job this morning on a T0220 FET mounted on a PCB that has a vertical heat sink which is already attached to the FET. The 2 irons I used were the Hakko FX-951 (set to 345C) and the KSGER T12 (set to 300C). On the S and D pins, the Hakko could barely melt the solder even after 10 seconds or so, the KSGER hit the pad and the solder flowed fully within a second or so.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 01:48:04 pm
content: Now you have to determine why there was such a large difference. Because if the tip temps are the same and it's the same wattage tip why would one be better than the other.Just curious though you didn't happen to buy your FX-951 off amazon, ebay or secondhand did you?

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 01:51:08 pm
content: Did you use the same tip? Or swap tips? Did you measure the tip temperatures?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 02:18:04 pm
content: There are fake Hakko stations that look like real ones. That was one of the reasons I didn't buy it: too many fakes, too hard to identify which one is real. I'm personally not capable of recognizing Hakko fakes, differences are too subtle and unreliable. Like, boot up time, I see no reason why clones cannot "fix" it.Also, I once was surprised how well my clone of Hakko 936 performed after I replaced the broken heater... Until I measured tip temperature. Turned out there are different temperature sensors, my station didn't like the new handpiece and put temperature much higher than it should.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 02:18:59 pm
content: BTW, while KSGER and other stations from banggood etc. may be good for hobbyist use, they probably wouldn't hold up for production use. The quality is questionable with dozens of variants of the same product from different sources. And there's no certifications for safety or otherwise. So it's not an apples to apples comparison. People are used to cheap knock-offs of everything. It seems unreasonable to expect real companies such as Hakko & Pace to compete price-wise with goods from Bangood and Aliexpress.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 02:33:12 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 02:18:59 pmThere are clones, but I thought KSGER means a very specific t12 controller that is sold from an official aliexpress shop. I'd suggest buy from there, do not buy clone of a cloneConcerning safety, I wouldn't trust it, it's up to the buyer to check isolation and grounding :/ Ofc, no certs/compliance either.Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 02:18:59 pmI still think there is a lot of room to make branded products more accessible. Plus, for some reason, for example, ads200 costs ~%50 more in Europe than in US. While KSGER has same price everywhere. Not to say there are no artificial limitations which many big vendors like to put to segment the market and make maximum profit. This used to work, but... I'd say the market landscape is changing, will see what's going to happen next.BTW, is there really that big demand for certified hand-soldering stations? Who buys them (except mil/gov)? I doubt a typical repair shop would care about certs.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 03:22:24 pm
content: I've been thinking about replacing my 25 yr old Weller station for a couple years now but haven't pulled the trigger. I service mostly older pro audio, stereo equipment with through-hole parts and point-to-point wired vacuum tube stuff. The fact that I've had the Weller for 25 years is telling. That thing fell into a bucket of water ten years ago and survived. Reliability is one of the criteria for my purchase. But An OLED display that tells me the date is not. Cost of consumables is also important to me. I don't want to be changing a $30 tip every two weeks. I don't want to be fiddling with bad connectors and strange temperature issues or a switching power supply with Sungwa caps when I have a job to do. I don't buy tools at Harbor Freight because I expect my equipment to work when I need to use it .

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 04:53:16 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 03:22:24 pmAfaik it's a cheap standard module that cost $5-9 or so.Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 03:22:24 pmCommon tips are about $5 as well... You can also buy original Hakko cartridges, if needed.Anyway, if you do things professionally and can justify the price of a good station then there is probably nothing to discuss. Chinese clones obviously cannot provide same confidence as established brands, that's how those brands survive.I myself started doing electronics when I didn't have a stable income, so I had to stick to solutions that didn't require much investment upfront. So, I wasn't given a choice of buying a cheap station, or a rework station from JBC with full set of tools and cartridges. Now I can buy any station I want, but with my modest soldering needs I don't the point, nor I want to support ridiculous pricing and artificial market segmentation most brands try to do.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 04:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: exe on June 11, 2019, 02:33:12 pmPace are shipped to the UK and then the rest of Europe distributors as far as I'm aware, so tax and currency conversion plus shipping doesn't help, I think their MSRP is quite reasonable considering costs of importing from the US. Pace stations in the past were fairly expensive.Aside from the MSRP distributors set their own price at the end of the day, all you can do is look for the cheapest or go on Amazon or Ebay and see if you can find the Euro voltage version at a decent price.Any manufacturer that has standards compliance and does hand soldering, so anything to do with safety and critical systems, medical, aviation, automotive, energy, telecommunications.The market landscape would change overnight if someone did an exposé on how many non safety compliant imports there are in the wild. Most of them are only picked up when someone gets hurt.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 05:06:28 pm
content: Pace was fairly expensive here in the US until the ADS200 came out. Obviously, the lower price was meant to compete with Hakko. I think the US version of the ADS200 can be rewired for 220V but I haven't checked it myself. Someone here in the US could probably ship one to anyone who used a freight forwarding service.I also expect that someone, at some point will make a drop in controller PCB for the ADS200 that has a better UI.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 06:17:56 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 05:06:28 pmUnless someone has checked the transformer assume it's a no, they have always sold a separate US and Europe version.You would have to look for Aaron Caplans exact quote but I believe they lowered the station price and with that expected to sell more tips/consumables. So it sounded like changing their sales model rather than move in on someones turf. But yes they are competing with Hakko and JBC, especially in the prosumer market now.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 06:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 11, 2019, 06:17:56 pmJudging by the tear-down video and photos, there appears to be two primary windings. If you have one, you could take it apart and check? I'm surprised someone hasn't done it yet.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 07:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 06:28:51 pmIn the back of the 230V model it looks like you could possibly parallel them for 120V operation, highly depends if the windings are identical of course. Not seen a clear shot of the of the 120V transformer, Cliff took a couple of photos of his but only saw two primary wires, unless I'm mistaken (which does need checking).

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 07:43:48 pm
content: It was mentioned in the Pace thread. Aaron didn't comment about it. I think because he's not going to condone circumventing local dealers. Something tells me he would've commented if it wasn't possible.No big deal though. One could always use a step-down transformer. If I lived where there was 220v power, I probably would have one myself. Historically, there's been a lot of equipment that's less expensive in the US market. I convert old Conn Strobe tuners to 220v and change the calibration circuitry for 50hz, because relatively few of them were made for the European market.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 08:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 07:43:48 pmGeez you're inventive. He said he couldn't remember why they don't have dual voltages. He is the Director of Marketing not Engineering, nice conspiracy theory though heheh. But anyway someone needs to check with Cliff or find a photo of the back of the 120V version. I can't tell from this photo, which shows Cliffs mod adding a 40V secondary aux power supply along with some creative fuse mounting.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 09:18:39 pm
content: I suspect they use the same transformer. If the 220v model has a dual primary winding but the US version does not, what other conclusion could you come to other than protecting the foreign markets? Aaron knows that. Come on!

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 12:25:51 am
content: Quote from: labjr on June 11, 2019, 02:18:59 pmI'm not saying you're wrong about questionable (build) quality but many of us have had problems with $200 - $500 soldering stations. Plus we're electronics engineers and can fix stuff.I took a Ford quality course once and was told that quality is meeting the requirement, if the tool does the job and does it well, it's a quality product. But from a cost perspective, real quality is getting it right first time and keeping it reliable.My Jabe UD-1200 arrived today, I peeked in the box and all looks good.I bought my Hakko FX-951 from Tequipment.net, I sure hope it's not a fake.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 01:10:24 am
content: Let us know how the Jabe station is. I wonder how the Chinese come up with these brand names? KSGER? Jabe sounds like a shortened form of Jabe eee cee.Now if they could cut the prices in half. The station is over $200. And the tips are $11-15 and up. Would be nice if the cost was the same as the knock-off FX-951 and T-12 tips.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 09:22:01 am
content: Speaking of Pace, I wonder how big the company is. For some reason I thought of thousands people. Looking at Linkedin ("Pace worldwide"), there are only 26 people (probably, more in reality, not everyone is on Linkedin), and by far most of them are not engineers. Seems to be a very small business.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 12:57:19 pm
content: Jabe is set up and tested. It works fine; the 3 tips that came with it are all fairly small, I selected the biggest and tried to melt a spot of 60/40 solder on a solid copper PCB plane, it had no problem at all, took maybe 8 seconds or so.The unit itself is large, heavy, and sturdy. It has an LCD display with poor contrast but it's readable.I only paid $180 plus $44 shipping DHL express from Aliexpress - they took about 4 days before they shipped but then it only took about 3 days to get here from China. The outer box had green tape that said "Examined by US Customs & Border Protection" but it came very quickly.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 01:03:50 pm
content: @Gandalf_Sr, how does it compare with t12? Is there a huge difference in thermal performance?

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 01:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: exe on June 12, 2019, 01:03:50 pmThe KSGER T12 (one on left w black handle) is a bit faster but the tip is much bigger. The Jabe (one on right w green handle) is rated at 130W vs the KSGER's 70W altough the power supply in the KSGER is 24V x 5A which is 120W.My view is that the Jabe is not that much better than the KSGER, certainly not to warrant the $180 price tag; the Jabe is heavier and more expensive probably because it uses a power transformer vs the KSGER's SMPS.I'd have to get bigger tips for the Jabe to make a better comparison - I might buy one honking great big one.

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 01:59:42 pm
content: Interesting. I would have thought the Jabe would at least equal the KSGER. Even though the tip is smaller is has a good thermal mass at the base. It can supply more power and I would think the Jabe has a faster control loop. Maybe try a genuine JBC tip?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 02:00:40 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 12, 2019, 01:10:24 amI've had one of these for about a week now. It works well but the LCD quality is not as good as the original JBC. It's a bit wishy-washy with inconsistent blacks across the display but still quite usable. The other thing is that I had to add an offset of about 20 degrees C to get the tip temperature to match up with the display temperature. It would be nice if JABE could add the tip calibration procedure the KSGER has so you can store different profiles for the many different tips. Also as one of the youtube reviewers said it does not work to well with the C210 Nano iron and tips. But other than that it is as solid and quality made as the original JBCcheers

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 02:05:29 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 12, 2019, 02:00:40 pmIf they're gonna do a good knock-off they may as well rip off the control circuitry too.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 05:02:09 pm
content: Might want to make sure on the T12 clone the SMPS has proper primary/secondary isolation, it's been mentioned the ones with the air gap may have a heatsink that has inadequate clearance.For your own safety never expect those cheap smps to isolate live voltage properly when switched off. They often are switching neutral, so pull the plug to be sure. Might pay to check both the top and bottom of the PCB for any obvious design or assembly mistakes, while you are there clean the flux off any hand soldering.Would be interesting to see how much it overshoots as well, I've seen in video jumping around as high as 30C at idle, so this probably explains why you feel the performance is better than the Jabe. But it was probably unrealistic to expect JBC performance from the Jabe anyway.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 10:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 12, 2019, 05:02:09 pmThe KSGER PSU PCB has an air gap and it is isolated by a transformer. It needs for the ground input pin to be connected to the case though.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 04:20:56 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 12, 2019, 10:58:48 pmYou would have to look, but apparently on some versions a heatsink is placed across the airgap, which has creepage issues.There is probably a few other design issues like the way the mains connector is soldered to the PCB and the clearance underneath the PCB without an insulating material, but I don't design power supplies, so I'm speculating.Edit: On the controller check if the VBAT pin of the micro has a resistor to ground (R10 on the PCB), it may cause current drain on the backup battery decreasing its life to 30 days.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 09:36:27 am
content: KSGER issues !

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 12:35:41 pm
content: Thanks Snoopy.Those aspects of the heatsink bridging between the high and low voltage sides looks kind of scary, I need to do something about that!I figured the CR2032 battery was flat as the time I set was lost during power disconnects but it would have lasted all of 30 days if I hadn't have watched that video. Anyway, I removed R10 and put a new battery holder + battery in and confirmed in now keeps time over power outages, I didn't test the current draw by the video says 1 uA which I calculate is theoretically good for almost 23 years.I'm thinking I'll reverse-engineer the KSGER circuit onto my own PCB, has anyone already done that? I figure it's awful similar toPTdreamer's here.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 01:22:01 pm
content: I opened up the two units I have and both are slightly different to each other but neither seem to have the backup battery drainage problem.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 01:29:18 pm
content: Side by side comparison.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 01:44:23 pm
content: Hmmm, mine is in an extruded aluminum case and the power connector is soldered directly to the PSU PCB.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 02:17:16 pm
content: I bought two units from different ebay sellers but there are several versions from the official KSGER seller on aliexpresshttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32836043839.htmlDoes anyone know what sort of display module is used on these ? Looks really goodcheers

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 02:24:33 pm
content: Snoopy, that looks like my head unit. It's an OLED display, do you want the actual part number?

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 02:33:03 pm
content: Would be interesting if someone designed a controller PCB that had all the bugs worked and used an AC heater supply. There's also Unisolder but it looks too complicated. And they don't offer an assembled PCB.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 02:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 13, 2019, 02:33:03 pmWhy would an AC heater supply be better? My comparison with the big heavy units like the Jabe UD-1200 made me realize that the big units use transformers but that's why they cost so much more; you can't get a 200W 24V transformer for less than $40 on its own.As long as they are properly insulated, wouldn't a 110-240V AC 24V 5A SMPS supply PCB be better?

author: labjr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 02:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 13, 2019, 02:38:54 pmZero crossing switching, reliabilty and simplicity. Transformers aren't that expensive. And you can reuse them too. If there was something out there which I felt was a good design I would build a soldering station.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 04:38:41 pm
content: I just ordered a second KSGER unit fromBanggood, $52 shipped from USA. I will take this one apart and look at the PCB in more detail.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 06:53:26 pm
content: Quote from: labjr on June 13, 2019, 02:46:44 pmSMPS is everywhere, including expensive gear. There is no need to even design it, an off-the-shelf one will just work. So, I disagree that a classic EI/toroidal transformer would add much value to put a heavy clunky transformer. It's the opposite: it would rise shipping and storage price.Even though I myself use a lot of traditional toroidal transformers and I like them because of the reasons you mentioned.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 12:01:31 am
content: Gandalf, while I remember check your Hakko FX-951. It's easy to misinterpret the set temp for calibration offset and end up accidentally neutering the stations performance in config.I was helping a forum member who was having performance issues with a FX-888D, he just came back to confirm it was in fact calibration and tip geometry that solved his issue. So give the manual a good read and check the calibration against your new thermometer at different temps.It's not necessarily going to make the T12 cart a super performer but you might be surprised, most people seem to have no problem with that station for standard soldering.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 01:06:35 am
content: Going back to the Jabe, I did a little more digging. From what Equalizer said it's a 50W rated iron and tip and it's set to "150W" in software. So in other words they are overheating/cooking the element. He said running it at the 150W setting will destroy your expensive tips (I think he was speaking from experience). This is starting to make more sense, I smelled a rat but you never know, they could have changed the firmware since then.Looking at this process I can't help but feel you have now thrown $320 or so at China and really got little benefit out of it, and your interpretation of a high power T12 smps indicating the performance of the station is leading you astray. Transformers (unless you need portability) are the best way to go, aside from control technology transformers simplify ESD, grounding, reliability and safety. On the bench (if that is your purpose) you want hefty station, when you hit buttons, spin knobs and move the handpiece, the station itself shouldn't move.To me it's a bit backwards seeking the ultimate GUI. If you want DIY look for the best iron and control circuit then add your own micro and software around it. You get no closer using closed source showing some fancy calibration menus, a jumpy power indicator and a clock. All that crap you can add to any DIY project.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 11:18:26 am
content: Sure I threw some money at China but I now have a very heavy soldering station, so heavy in fact that, even if all the electronics fried, it would make a great door stop.Seriously, if I get round to my own design, I'll use an off the shelf $16, 24V, 6A, SMPS brick that are now ubiquitous because they're used for LED lighting - this approach also means that it works anywhere on the planet (and maybe off-planet too). I have considered the need to have a heavy unit on the bench and would consider having an iron weight inside the case to give it 'heft'.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 11:47:50 am
content: Quote from: Shock on June 14, 2019, 01:06:35 amTL;DR: different people have different priorities. I'm happy with my tiny soldering station, so happy that gave away my hefty unit to a friend.Actually, I like small equipment, so I can put more on my bench. I don't have problems pressing the knobs (because I grab the station with index finger, but that's alright, I don't change temperature too often. But even if I had, I'm still not willing to pay extra for this. I'd rather glue the station to my bench, or install rubber feet, or something.I'm also a price-sensitive person. There are trade-offs I can make. The only thing I demand is, probably, safety. Rest can be fixed:1) grounding -- my tip is grounded from the factory, I checked.2) ESD safety -- not sure what this means, the tip is grounded, I am grounded, I feel safe. Moreover, many stations are not declared as esd-safe, or it costs extra (hello, ersa) to get them made of conductive plastic. But, again, what's the point if tip is grounded? Anyway, I'm yet to kill something with esd. Even sensitive mosfets survived my soldering (probably, due to integrated zener on the gate). Actually, I'd rather connect tip via a 1Meg resistor to prevent accidental shorting, like my wristband.3) reliably -- just change caps, or replace the power supply, it costs about $20, not a big deal. I also have a fire alarm in the lab, just in case (though it does only sound, it doesn't alert fire brigade). And house insurance.So, I'm not saying everyone should share my value. I'm saying that there is a demand for cheap small compact soldering stations for those who don't solder 8 hours a day. I even like it has a clock on it. That's totally unnecessary, as many other feature it has, but I like it. It's a gadget.So, let's praise diversity -- if one wants a brick that can survive a nuclear war there is Pace. For people on a small budget there is ksger. These are two different markets, afaik, and I'm glad both ends are covered.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 01:08:34 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 13, 2019, 02:24:33 pmYes would be interested in the exact part number.It looks a lot better quality than the run of the mill 128x64 OLED displays kicking around on ebay.cheers

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 01:14:29 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on June 14, 2019, 01:06:35 amYou can dial down the power on the JABE so you don't cook the tips. I have mine set at 70 Watts. There's no doubt that the on board micro is calculating the average power delivered to the tip in real time which may explain why the JBC uses a dspPIC but the STM32 used on the JABE is equally capable of doing this as well.For the price I'm not sure why you'd want to reinvent the wheel when the KSGER is working fine and offers many more options than the original fx-951 or its clones which don't even have a proper setback function.cheers

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 08:45:31 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on June 14, 2019, 01:08:34 pmI think it'sone of these.My 10 x T12 tips arrived today along with an aluminum handle kit, does anyone have the wiring schematic for that handle so that it works for the 5-pin KSGER T12 system?

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 01:10:38 pm
content: I put my aluminum handle together this morning, I copied the exact wiring of my working plastic handle just like shownin the pictures hereand I used the same T12 tip but it doesn't work, it just says ERROR on the display and the tip doesn't get warm.There's a small component in my aluminum handle that looks like a small black bead capacitor that I presumed is the thermistor to sense ambient and I don't think that has polarity, in the linked pictures it looks like a small glass-encapsulated diode but the other component marked SW200D is definitely the tilt switch (mine was a glass capsule like a neon bulb with mercury inside) so this must be the thermistor - it goes between 1 and 4 (white and black).I've included pictures. The black part with the 3 lugs is the old plastic (working) handle, the white one is the new one that goes into the aluminum handle.Any ideas?[EDIT 1] I spun the tip around in the handle and it started working, it's a bad connection inside the white terminal hub.[EDIT 2] I did a more detailed investigation and found that the T12 tips weren't going all the way in due to lumps in the plastic molding. I 'fixed' that by performing a lumpectomy and now the T12-K tip that came with the soldering station seems to work perfectly but a smaller tip used on the new aluminum handle still flashes "ERROR" periodically as the tip tries to heat up but that "ERROR" isn't there at all on the blue plastic handle. Think it's time to whine at Banggood

author: Zloy_Bender
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 06:28:45 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 11, 2019, 12:21:14 pmDid you do a calibration on KSGER? Measure the temperature of the sting? Does it coincide with the indicator readings?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 02:08:00 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on June 15, 2019, 01:10:38 pmI bought two pre-built aluminium handles as recommended by Defpom. The problems I found was that the rubber grommets in the neck of the handle tend to be quite sticky so I suggest you spray some lubricant such as CRC 2-26 down the shaft so the tips can easily be inserted and removed. The second handle did not work with an ERROR displayed on the screen. When I unscrewed the top part of the handle and inserted the tip directly into the contact barrel it worked ! What I found was the rubber grommets were not inserted far enough into the barrel at the top and so the tip did not make proper contact. Easily fixed with the blunt end of a suitable sized drilled pushing the grommets in as far in as possible. Now both are working properly

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 12:34:11 am
content: I've been busy with work so I haven't had the chance to do much more investigation on the aluminum handle. The second KSGER STM32 V2.01 arrived and it's identical to the first one, it too had a completely dead CR2032 battery but it works fine otherwise. I contacted Banggood and they offered me a $10 refund which I accepted.

author: abp250
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 10:03:14 pm
content: I plugged the CD-1BQE into a 220v pdu and it popped the fuse. I replaced the fuse and put it on a 120v outlet and it wouldn't turn on and a minute later I noticed a burning smell and the new fuse was blown again. I opened up the unit and found that what appears to be a diode on the transformer PCB was burnt pretty bad. I'm wondering if it is repairable if this is replaced but I don't know any details about the component. Does anyone know or have a working 1bqe to retrieve the part number? Even better would be some sort of circuit diagram so I could check any other components for damage.Thanks.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 11:19:51 pm
content: I don't have one of those particular JBC stations, but the device looks like a TVS. Can you tell if it is on the primary or secondary of the transformer?If it is on AC input of the transformer then I would have expected a bidirectional TVS like a Bourns SMCJ160CA, but the BRP marking seems to match a unidirectional 30V Vishay part TPSMP30A.If it is just a TVS, you can probably power up the unit without it to check other functionality, but it might be wise to use a variac or a "dim bulb current limiter".

author: abp250
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 11:44:08 pm
content: Thank you Kean!I took a look at the datasheets for SMCJ160CA and TPSMP30A. It is on the secondary side as far as I can tell but the package looks more like a SMCJ160CA. I also cannot see any polarity markings on the burnt part but it is pretty badly burnt. I measured the resistance from all of those outputs (J1) to the primary side and they were all O.L. except to ground is about 170k from each point. I also measured between the secondary side windings outputs (J1) and got the values below:1-2,1-3: 12.5k1-4: 12.5k2-4:1.62-5: 0.25-6:0.4Do these look normal?The ribbon looks shorted but it's just a little melted/charred from the burning TVS and mostly still intact.I'll probably get several TVS and check which one works best.I don't have a viriac or dim bulb current limiter but i'm looking into making one.If i were to be able to power on the iron and get it working without the component would there be a way to narrow down what specs i should choose for the TVS? Do you think it would be worth reaching out to JBS to see if they will tell me which component would work best?Update - I made a dim bulb current limiter and when i plug it in and turn on the JBC the light is fully litpretty sure that means the transformer is busted right?