Chinese tracker hidden in sealed part in UK Government car - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:17:55 pm
content: Just found this article about them finding a Chinese sim and tracker in a government car.https://inews.co.uk/news/hidden-chinese-tracking-device-government-car-national-security-2070152Quote"At least one sim card has been found.At least one? That sounds to me a bit ambiguous.*I didn't know large car parts were assembled in China.I only thought they only made small electronic components.**I'd imagine there could be other methods like if the webhosting for the manufacturer was hosted somewhere in China or some device in the car "calling home" to it's Chinese manufacturers.***Which is why I'd want any connectivity in the car switched off.****If they are built in China well I am not surprised.*****In what country may that be...Didn't they think that something like this could be likely to happen allowing car parts to be assembled and sealed off in China that are large enough to fit trackers or did they care more about the low cost it had to had offer.What do you think?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:30:38 pm
content: I'm only surprised that anyone is surprised by thisMeta-data from these kinds of sources has been a thing for more than a decade; I'd be amazed if steps are not already in place to prevent or limit its usefulness to foreign governments (in the context that they all know about it, and all try to stop it, while all try to use it).As for secret sim cards sealed into parts that shouldn't have them, well that's the sort of thing that should be picked up in routine counter-surveillance sweeps. If it isn't, someone's not doing their job properly.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:39:36 pm
content: A SIM card is not a GSM/GPRS/3G/4G/5G module.A concealed tracking device in a sealed spare part? How would it be powered?Why buy Chinese spare parts for a car?The quality of the text is pure rubbish and probably fake news.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 04:47:35 pm
content: That was why I thought it sounded ambiguous."At least one sim was found" and " The tracking/geolocating device".Quote from: AVGresponding on January 07, 2023, 04:30:38 pmA few years ago, before Boris was in power, I was speaking to someone about trying to get through to this government department that I was having difficulty and was told "they're sacking everybody, they have already sacked quite a lot of the civil servants and contractors, so there'd probably be very few to take your call."

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 05:23:18 pm
content: Is that an apple scented air-freshener dangling from the mirror, or is it an Apple AirTag on the Find My  network?So will diplomats travel in radio silence to avoid being tracked as they traverse from cell tower to cell tower? Or are they on at least one of theirthreephones: the diplomatic one, the personal one and the burner?On a more serious  note; "a serving intelligence officer told i that at least one secret SIM card had been found during the searches." I suggest that officer re-reads the Official Secret's Act that they signed. If this was an officially sanctioned (anti China) media leak, then guys I recommend you try not to leak all over your own shoes in the process.Clickbait journalismfrom the BBC, written by (and for) the technically illiterate.Attached: Just one of a myriad ofChinese madeafter market vehicle trackers on eBay. All of which use 2G and 3G SIM cards.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 05:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on January 07, 2023, 05:23:18 pmBefore you go reflexively slagging off the BBC as if they're the only media outlet in the UK, you may want to note that this is from 'i', which is currently owned by the Daily Mail.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:07:26 pm
content: GPS trackers disguised as an automotive relay have been around for a long time.I'm skeptical about most spy trackers because of auto body metal shielding the GPS antenna. The hood/bonnet is over top.The SIM card would be for a cell modem, the thing has a phone number, just trace calls to it. Unless you have to have access to get the datalogs.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:16:56 pm
content: Not to be outdone, the US found a Chinese tracker in House Representative Swalwell's bed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Swalwell)

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:29:11 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on January 07, 2023, 04:47:35 pmThere are certain departments which are quite good at protecting their core budgets, by various methods. You can never rule out individual incompetence however.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:38:01 pm
content: I suspect what they found was long abandoned - But it still makes good copy for the masses who are genuinely convinced that 5G caused Covid.Quote from: jpanhalt on January 07, 2023, 06:16:56 pmShe said she was only in there to plump up his pillows

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:41:07 pm
content: They previously found "Chinese tracking devices" on computer motherboards, didn't they?

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:08:58 pm
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on January 07, 2023, 05:23:18 pmSounds quite disappointing considering it is being paid for by BBC license fee payers.I wonder what they are trying to do, distract or instill fear in the majority.I kind of remember something back in about 2016 and unfortunately I can't find it anymore, where there were complaints about the BBC, where the they did an article I think on electrical? cable thefts that were happening around the country and it was suggested that they could use CCA cable instead as it was cheaper and less likely to be stolen? (will the thieves even notice before stealing it?) and that it can be used in communication cables too. The mistake got reported to the BBC and a follow up that they corrected it by removing the references to CCA in the article or something like that.

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:19:35 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on January 07, 2023, 07:08:58 pmFFS! YOU linked the original article - it has nothing to do with the BBC.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:30:16 pm
content: Sorry I thought AndyBeez was mentioning that the BBC was the source and I should have checked myself first.I just checked the BBC news site and no I don't see any article about it.https://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=chinese+tracker+in+car&d=news_psI see "They told i" this and that.Or maybe I am misunderstanding what is being said.I see it was also published in the DailyWail too:PUBLISHED: 19:48, 6 January 2023 | UPDATED: 19:59, 6 January 2023https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11607735/Chinese-tracking-device-discovered-inside-UK-government-car-senior-politician-slams-Beijing.html

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:20:57 pm
content: The UK government don't have any more credibility than the chinese one.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:21:10 pm
content: You can buy cheap GPS trackers on AliExpress. They are all manufactured in China. That does not mean it was a Chinese spy applying it to that car.It could be anyone, for example the minister's wife who was wondering if her husband was really working late or visiting some sex club.Again, this is fake news at its best. Technically written to impress the ignorant and total lack of real facts.Any mobile phone can act as a tracking device which is why Huwaei is no longer allowed to sell them in the USA.Why would the Chinese bother with GPS tracking devices, if they could implement the same on some chips they provide to third party manufacturers.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:20:15 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 07, 2023, 08:21:10 pmQuote from: artag on January 07, 2023, 08:20:57 pmJoke: So their attemptofat gettingmorecredibility is to accuse and blameChinathe Chinese government when they find something that is pretty much everywhere.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:36:40 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 07, 2023, 08:20:57 pmYeah, that's the problem here.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 10:44:06 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on January 07, 2023, 07:30:16 pmMy bad. Not the BBC. I hope the BBC verify this report through their Disinformation Unit before reporting the technical facts.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:39:00 pm
content: If Inwas trying to,do this, it’s be a sealed fan unit, or overhead cabin light with a supply - in a low shielded part of the body.unless you’re sweeping for bugs when the unit is active - it’s a fan or light fitting.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 02:57:34 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 07, 2023, 04:39:36 pmAre you really that ignorant of how modern cars operate and how they're constructed?They are FULL of electronic modules that no one outside of the factory has any idea of how they work internally. MANY of those modules are made by outside vendors including many made in Malaysia, Singapore, Mexico, Canada, and yes, mainland China. All of those modules have electrical power provided to them so it would be trivial to power a tracking device and/or some kind of communications device. Most, if not all of those modules are bought by the trainloads from the OEM and the car manufacturer simply takes the module from the box and slaps it into a car with no inspection. So a company in say, CHINA, could install tracking equipment in something like an Air Conditioner Control Unit and it could be easily installed in new cars without anyone outside of the OEM knowing that it was there. And those modules are never repaired and are only replaced, so no one would even know that it was there. A lot of the newer automatic temperature control AC controllers also have a small vent that points directly into the passenger compartment, nominally to monitor the cabin air temperature but it would be a perfect place to install a microphone and be able to listen in on any conversations in the car.Modern cars also have Data Buses in them so if you have a GPS then that data is available to EVERY device that is connected to the buss. In my OLD 2000 year model Mitsubishi even the vents for the AC, defrost, heat, etc was controlled via the data buss. One on the drivers side and another on the passenger side. In my 2010 Ford even the radio is operated and fully controlled by the data buss. In my wife's 2016 Hyundai Sonata, even the mirrors and seat position and a number of other things are controlled by the data buss and the car's computer recognizes each different driver based on the key in their pocket and it then adjusts the mirrors, etc to suit that driver. My wife's Sonata also knows where you are at all times and it DOES radio that information to Hyundai. When we had the tire pressure get low in one wheel, the car not only told us that it was low but also gave us directions to the nearest Hyundai dealership! I don't suppose that you know anything about the systems in modern aircraft that continually report all electrical and mechanical readings back to the aircraft company but I can tell you for a certainty that Hyundai is doing that much, and possibly more. We get frequent notices from the local Hyundai dealership that tell us the status of the car and when to bring it in for service. I've even seen things like low windshield washer fluid being reported.This is not proof that what the OP said is true but it is damm well technologically possible!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 03:11:18 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 07, 2023, 06:07:26 pmMany of the body panels of most cars in the US are plastic and have been for a long time. Go look at some pictures of some burned cars, you'll be surprised at little metal that there actually is in them.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 05:07:25 am
content: I think those "relays" would end up in a car's fuse block pins facing down, so the hood is over top blocking GPS. For headlamps, horn etc. they would have battery power.Of course they are spying on politicians, par for the course. It sounds like anti-china rhetoric, probably based on theanticsoutside the Manchester consulate."China’s government has removed a Chinese consul general and five of his staff following the assault on a Hong Kong pro-democracy protester at the Chinese consulate in Manchester, Britain’s foreign secretary said Thursday.""“In response, the Chinese Embassy, acting on instructions from Beijing, notified His Majesty’s Government that the functions of the Consul General in Manchester have come to an end and he has returned to China,” Cleverly said. He added that the other staff have “either left the United Kingdom or will shortly do so.”"

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 08:19:32 am
content: The miniature online tracker (some includes voice recording) battery powered that can run for weeks or even months already available for years, just search at Ali Express. Heck, some even have camera included used by perverts.Just another gov. official got busted by their spouse of cheating, instead of major embarrassment, why not use the opportunity to boost the Axis of Evil China rhetoric.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 08:43:05 am
content: Not sure why the Chinese are interested in the uk. Given how dysfunctional th uk has become , it a bit like tracking a madman

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 08:55:18 am
content: Tell the NSA how terrible this is

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 10:23:32 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on January 08, 2023, 02:57:34 amI am not ignorant and you are being rude.Have you really read what I wrote in my TWO posts?Again for you to understand what I said:1. A SIM is not a tracking device.2. A tracking device can be bought by anyone for little money and planted in another person's car without too much trouble. No need for Chinese agents.3. Chinese can track any electronic device with MCU's if they really want to. No need to plant an extra tracking device, just build the logic in any China manufactured PCB directly.That is what I wrote.Please stop and think twice before calling other people ignorant.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 11:12:21 am
content: “Look people, the (villain of the day) is trying to destroy our democracy!”. I wonder what fool still falls for this propaganda crap. Not Chinese or Russians will destroy the west but greed.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 01:49:31 pm
content: I agree I doubt it's the chinese themselves.It could quite well be the press/paparazzi for all we know, even a grumpy constituent.If it was a state supported thing and I was doing it I would target cars either at the supply or servicing side. Any government purchase/servicing deal would be done by a contracted company and it's not too hard to work out who and get it into somewhere deep. Now you you wouldn't know who uses the car so it would be a case if track a load and see what is useful. Hmm maybe I read too many spy novels.Problem is that the press report refers to SIM card but the press are not technical but it depends on what the police reported in the press release.I know of people who have found magnetic gps trackers stuck to the underside of vans to track them to their home to later have a break in. Usually bicycles or motorcycles.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 02:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 08, 2023, 10:23:32 amA gsm SIM activated supports location deduction by cell tower triangulation. Hence all activated gsm units can deduce device locationNo the Chinese cannot use a mcu to track location. MCUs on their own have no location knowledge to be able to track you’d have to add hidden gsm Wi-Fi or Gps technology. Carv companies evaluate components and sub assemblies carefully so such tracking could only fe added with their compliance , of course the car could be retrofitted after sale etc. that’s entirely different

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 06:36:02 pm
content: What I meant is that an MCU can have hidden functionalities and backdoors which use the onboard infrastructure for its monitoring activity.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2023, 10:13:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 14, 2023, 06:36:02 pmclearly that “hidden functionalities @ must have geo location ability the issue most likely is that was added after the car was bought not added during manufacture

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 01:58:14 pm
content: There is some misunderstanding in this. A SIM is not a tracking device. A SIM is a Subscriber Identification Module by itself (normally a microchip card).A UE (user equipment, could be a phone of a modem for example) is needed for the SIM to work. Without it a SIM is just a card that carries an unique IMSI that is used (after being converted to TMSI in the network) as identification of a subscriber.Although is true that a UE can "see" many Cell IDs (and a Cell ID is normally a NodeB/Base Station or a group of them in the same geographical location) the only info she get is signal strength (in dBs) and Cell ID number. The geographical info is not transmitted to the UE since the UE doesn't need to know where he is geographically. He only need to know what Cell IDs are available and by the signal strength he can by itself request connection and handover tasks.That geographic location is only known by the Service Provider as administrative info, for maintenance use. It is never relayed on the network to any equipment. The UE cannot triangulate his location, the NodeB/Base Station can triangulate a UE by signal strength.If no GPS module is also installed such can't be used to triangulate geographically (via data acquisition and database filling directly in the MCU/device in the car itself) and if it is then the UE and respective SIM will only be used to relay info back, via a data up link.All of this to say that except if China have agents/contacts in the telecom company such tracking will be almost impossible to do just with a UE/SIM. Or in the country's security forces but if it is this one, I think that here are a lot more problems of spying that just a simple car tracking...I worked from 2009 to 2015 as a NSN Core Network Engineer in the biggest Mobile Phone Service Provider (at the time) in Portugal, so I know the outs and ins of how 2G, 3G and 4G network work in terms of location and identification of a user - I had to by law sometimes do such as request by the Justice of Portugal, being police or higher forces.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 04:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 08, 2023, 08:19:32 amhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/13/matt-hancock-kiss-images-ico-inquiry-no-prosecutionsQuoteI wonder who exposed them on camera?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/13/matt-hancock-kiss-images-ico-inquiry-no-prosecutionsQuoteJoke: If they see something they don't like and it involves equipment from China lets starting banning it.What about partygate? I wonder what equipment manufacturer they blamed for the photographs it took?https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/25/partygate-pictures-taken-by-no-10-photographers-may-be-released-16704580/Quote

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 12:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: bigfoot22 on January 08, 2023, 05:16:45 amMore reliable news can be found in the “Beano “

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 03:30:59 am
content: And this is a surprise because ... ?Just how stupid are the intelligence services? Companies like Google do it all the time. Usually with the PERMISSION of the person being tracked. That permission was given when a free game or other program was downloaded and installed on their smart phone. THEY CONSENTED in the fine print, about 50 paragraphs down from the top. No one reads down that far.Virtually any company that provides FREE software has something in that software that PAYS for it. And even with software that you have to pay for, often there are things in it that spy on the user.