Trouble getting full datasheet for an IC being sold on Mouser/Digikey - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Peeps
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 12:55:57 am
content: I'm working on a design and part of it involves taking an analog video signal, scaling it up and outputting it over HDMI, and I found thisvery nice Renesas IC video processor on Mouser,but the datasheet they link is only a summary of its capabilities. Googling it only turns up results for the short version as well. You can request the full version on Renesas' websites which I have but have not received a response back. I would be ordering them in the 10's, possibly a 100 or more depending on how this project goes which I know is nothing for them, but still frustrating that I can't get my hands on it.There's actually several of their video processor IC's I'm interested in but its the same story for them all. Am I just out of luck on this?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 01:10:30 am
content: You may have to take a more professional approach to getting access to their full datasheet.Equivalent of email saying "Yo, give me datasheet bro" usually doesn't work well for these sort of chips.Call up and ask about the process to get access to that chips datasheet, NDA or whatever.(It probably doesn't need one but simply asking if you can sign one to get access will make them see you more seriously

author: ThomasDK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 01:14:04 am
content: How long have you waited?They are usually quick to reply.Did you write from a business email account?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 01:17:13 am
content: This part is non stocked and IMHO not a suitable choice for what you described to begin with as you will need to somehow convert LCD panel interface into HDMI.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 01:29:45 am
content: I would avoid anything that doesn't have the full datasheet already publicly available.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:04:01 am
content: As indicated in another post, you're a lot more likely to get a reply with a business email/business mentioned rather than as an individual. Probably your best bet for finding the full datasheet, at least before the part is EoL.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:06:47 am
content: Hi,To the OP you are going to have difficulty getting HDMI information. You have to be an adopter.Link:https://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/adopters_founders.aspxOtherwise manufacturers are not permitted to share details of the HDMI or sell you parts.This is tied to content protection.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:17:13 am
content: I had a look around using some google search tricks, but sadly didn't find the full DS

author: Peeps
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 02:34:16 am
content: Quote from: ThomasDK on May 26, 2019, 01:14:04 amI did not, but in hindsight was thinking I should have. Its been about a week so far.Quote from: wraper on May 26, 2019, 01:17:13 amI was thinking using to use an HDMI/DVI transmitter IC like the TI TFP410, using the BT.656 encoded output from the Renesas TW8845.Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on May 26, 2019, 02:06:47 amSo there's a $5000 fee for a license... I guess HDMI is out of the question for this. Now I'm thinking I'll just use DVI and include a DVI to HDMI adapter, and include discrete analog/digital audio outputs. HDMI is really appealing though, shame that its so inaccessible for hobbyists.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 02:39:03 am
content: Don't you only need the license to actually call it HDMI? As I recall you can do DVI over the HDMI hardware interface.Of course none of this seems to affect China, I have a handy little $15 HDMI splitter that conveniently strips out the HDCP and outputs an unencrypted stream.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 02:41:31 am
content: Quote from: Peeps on May 27, 2019, 02:34:16 amDid you check resolution on that interface?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU-R_BT.656

author: Peeps
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 04:05:33 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 27, 2019, 02:41:31 amI know its intended for a specific resolution but it looks like other manufacturers are using it to carry much higher pixel clocks/resolutions, like with the TDA19988 for instance. But I could be wrong. It's taken a while to find these IC's in the first place, as this is kind of new territory for me. Trying to find an analog video ADC > Scalar > DVI/HDMI transmitter. I know scaling can be implemented with an FPGA, as could HDMI output but I was hoping to more or less find something off the shelf that could accomplish this.Quote from: james_s on May 27, 2019, 02:39:03 amI've been researching this since I started this topic, and it seems like if your product uses HDMI in any way, you must be licensed for it. For instance, the developer of theOSSC (Open Source Scan Converter)left out HDMI on its first revisions and moved to DVI for this very reason. But they now include it, which makes me wonder if they got the license or just ignore it? Seems like a grey area. China also seems not very bothered by it as you mentioned, so not surprised they find ways around it/ignore it completely.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 04:20:21 am
content: I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen a workaround in open source projects/dev kits where they do not pre-program the board with HDMI generating firmware/bitfile; the PCB just conveniently has TDMS pins from the FPGA connected to what appears to be similar to a HDMI connector

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2019, 10:38:37 am
content: One thing you could try is search on china websites for someone selling that chip (aliexpress etc)Then message the seller and ask how much to buy the full datasheet for said chip.The one thing people in china like to do is make moneyEven if the seller doesn't have the full DS themselves they probably know someone who knows where a copy is stored on the net.Get them to send you the first 5 pages to prove they are legit before sending them any money.Pro Tip:Sometimes the hardest part of finding a datasheet on the internet is finding what the official filename is.Once you have that finding the file is usually pretty easy.I used to love those sites that hosted datasheets for a download fee.They would let you see the full filename and it was the click to download that was paywalled.

author: zitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2019, 10:26:52 pm
content: Personally; if a company hides their full datasheet behind a "contact us"-wall - they get nixed from the design right away.Simply put; if they can't offer free, open full datasheets because they are worried about copy-cats or whatever, then they have lost the right to earn my business.There has only been a few companies that I've even seen put their data sheets behind some password protected website. Those companies deserve to loose my business.If this is indeed some kind of "key" secret; they still need to provide electrical and basic usage data in the datasheet. Wanting to harvest my email address for the sole purpose of marketing to me later is a very good way to end the relationship before it even starts.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2019, 11:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: zitt on May 29, 2019, 10:26:52 pmMost of the companies have some products with datasheets available only under NDA. The question is only how many and if you stumble on those parts.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 12:20:32 am
content: Analog devices has HDMI chips that don't require NDA.ADV7850 does analog,scaling and hdmi outputhttps://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADV7850.pdf

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 05:49:55 pm
content: Quote from: zitt on May 29, 2019, 10:26:52 pmThey don't care if theyloseyour business.Don't you get it? They don't want your business. The first question they ask is, "Do you have the capital to make 500,000 units per year?" And since you don't, they aren't interested.

author: zitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 10:21:01 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on May 31, 2019, 05:49:55 pmI'm sure you're just trying to make a point. But it did come off as rather "who cares"Can you imagine if ATMEL would have decided to put their data sheets behind a paywall / NDA? Do you think Arduino would exist?Simply put; I do care they they don't want my business.Maybe you represent one of those companies; maybe you don't. But if Intel can provide datasheets for their CPUs when they only sell to OEMS with capital to make 500,000 units per year; then... screw those companies that are "higher than thou."

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 11:35:45 am
content: Quote from: zitt on June 04, 2019, 10:21:01 pmMost companies are fairly open now about datasheets , the ones that are not are are usually the ones that are security related.A good example is broadcom , nothing really useful can be obtained from them without NDA because they make chispets for cable and satellite and those are targets of rampant hacking.I was glad to see microchip purchase atmel because microchip has always been extremely helpful with data for decades.I worry about the purchase of cypress by micron because micron has been less than helpful in the past with data.