Brymen BM869 review – By the eye of the Industrial electrician. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 02:23:46 am
content: By Kiriakos Triantafillou – Greece December 15, 2011Brymen BM869 review – By the eye of the Industrial electrician.Intro:It was a pleasant surprise the email that I received from Brymen marketing organization forty days ago, it was their positive reply to my invitation, about to use - test and evaluate their BM869 industrial multimeter of 50,000 / 500,000 counts, for 30 days.I like to thanks publicly Mr. Gary Wang BRYMEN Product Marketing Manager, because of his insight and good will, today I am able to present this product review.I am a Greek industrial electrician, forty-two years old, and I do both electrical and electronic projects, currently I own one wide range of tools, capable for a wide range of measurements.My first official review of the Agilent U1272A back to 18 July 2011, it was a major experience for me, I been selected to write a review of a truly modern and features rich industrial multimeter.This review acted as one awakening to me, and caused the revaluation of my own criteria about what is considered as worthy industrial multimeter today.Plus the fact that I am unsatisfied with the product offerings from the local distributors in Greece, where the majority distributes low priced outdated models, worked as another personal motive so to start the discovery of the worthy modern products, if there is any out there.It is known after all, that those public reviews leads to feedback exchanges with the manufacturers, and this are a Win-Win situation for both sides.The technician gain further awareness of where technology focuses today, plus the opportunity to offer valuable feedback, which will help for the further improvement of the next generation of tools.And the better tools will help us back, about to advance further our career.How everything has started?I did market research for 90 days, and I made my list of candidates.My key points were:Innovative design, fast sampling, Industrial personality, plus affordable price range.Those characteristics killed an amazing amount of candidates from my list, the immediate acceptance of my other two invitations send to DEER EE in Taiwan, plus to CEM in China, about acquiring demonstration units of my choice, loaded me with lots of confidence, that I did a good work in the selection of candidates.Two of my other invitations to known brands of the Chinese market (makers of the very affordable multimeters) they still remain unanswered.I was never expecting that especially Mastech will pull back on this, when their marketing manager (two months back) made the suggestion to offer me a modern Mastech DMM in the spirit of: old customer loyalty award.Due the fact that I still own my first Pros-Kit (Mastech) multimeter purchased back to 1989.They did not have the schematic diagram of it, so to assist me when I asked their help, and they offer me a new True RMS one in exchange for the old, which I did turn down, the old unit hides memories more precious to me than money.We are in December 2011 and soon in 2012, and it is time for a true reevaluation of which Asian manufacturers, deserve to gain the credit which the public media have to offer, when a true worthy product gets discovered.Part – 1Few words about BRYMEN:The company started at 1993, with Mr. Tony Chan CEO / President / Electrician Engineer.Their product range: portable multimeters, clamp meters & voltage testers.In the 1994 they had first shown in ELECTRONICA exhibition (Munich-Germany), introducing their first CAT-III 1000V compliance multimeter series, which was the BM830 series, capable of surviving the 8000V peak impulse transient test.(Nine years later) In 2003 in Taipei TAITRONICS Show, they came with their first CAT-IV 1000V compliance multimeter series, the BM680 series.Capable of surviving the 12000V peak impulse transient test, Brymen was the first ever listed an UL CAT-IV 1000V certified multimeter worldwide.The company describes this fact as: new milestone in multimeter safety!Even at 2009, they were pioneers about the UL CAT-IV 1000V compliance, and their new offering was the BM820 series, also listed as UL CAT-IV 1000V.Yet, setting another new milestone in multimeter safety!Well this is a true impressive past, so far I had the impression that the American companies was leading in this area.And so I did a double check fort the above info, and it is a fact that even today, according to: Fluke Corporation - Product catalogue 2010/2011, printed in the Netherlands, 04/10Pub_ID: 11605-eng (page 9).That Fluke does not follow yet the CAT-IV 1000V directive.And from the side of Amprobe, they did introduce in their catalog of 2011, their first CAT IV 1000V model that is the HD160C 10,000 counts IP67.And so in did, Mr. Tony Chan he is a leading manufacturer in the sector of safety, by making safe multimeters for the past 18 years.My opinion about the above facts in mix with a light sense of humor would be that even the International Electrotechnical Commission is justified to feel proud of him.As Industrial electrician today I feel obligated to honor the company, and say at list a simple THANKS to all the workers of Brymen.The BM869 is my first CAT-IV 1000V multimeter (Dec 2011), when the Agilent U1272A and the Fluke 28II are both CAT-IV 600V.Personally, it took me some time to properly evaluate the safety factor on multimeters (old school electrician 1988).By participating at the EEV Blog forum (last two years), it did helped me to catch up a portion of the latest improvements’ related to multimeters.Plus I had become a believer and a living example, that the power of the public media can even help professionals about to re-educate them self’s further, if they really wish it.My invitation to Brymen about the BM869 review caught the company on the go for the TAITRONICS show 2011, so to introduce their very fresh BM860 series.Which I have spotted accidentally in a You-tube video, made by Martin Lorton who is staying in Africa, an hobbyist who is testing the potentials of solar power, by running a very small in scale project.The video was about the BM867, that even with fewer features than the industrial brother BM869, it was that good, that it did trigger my interest about a product review.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 02:37:11 am
content: Part – 2Introduction with the BM869The most distinct feature externally is the 50,000 counts resolution in the fast mode, plus the 500,000 counts resolution in the DC mode, and also the dual line LCD display.The rich resolution demands also a large LCD display, and this leads to an over sized hand-held multimeter, almost equal in size with the Fluke 28II.Test leadsThe BM869 comes with high quality test leads, better than the one found on the BM867 (no industrial version).Rubberize feeling on the test leads, shrouded banana plugs, soft silicone on the cables, and the leads tips are convertible to:a) fully exposed test tips = 1KV CAT IIb) Add-on plastic insulators ( small exposed tip) = 1KV CAT IVc) banana plug with threaded end, that gets over the exposed test tip = 1KV CAT IIThe test leads are made by the Taiwanese B.T.C. rated 10A 1KV, and there is no further information printed of the actual cables.The test leads gets easily attached in the back of the holster, even when the tips are fully exposed (1KV CAT II), or even with the plastic insulators on them (1KV CAT IV).The cables can roll over and around the multimeter body three times, and with the test leads attached on the holster, the multimeter gains a clean look.The actual test leads looked a bit short for the size of my palm and the finger guards a bit narrow for my taste, even so the general impression remains very good.ThermocoupleThe BM869 comes with one thermocouple, which has medium construction quality, speaking about the banana plugs.Fluke has spoiled us with the shrouded banana ones.Agilent uses a K-type adapter that is not shrouded but it has a high quality banana plugs. (Pomona style)The BM869 supports dual thermocouples’, and so you will definitely need to buy and a second one.I guess that due the affordable pricing of the BM869, it would be unfair to comment more about the banana plug of the included thermocouple.Those parts are expendable, and also for professional measurements you will need a more appropriate set of K-type bolt-on probes, capable even above the 250C mark.Carton box – packagingThe carton box is nicely printed, the logo of the company and the specifications are all over it.But the box it self it’s very fragile, there is no second carton box in it, so to hold the meter and the accessories stable in place.The BM869 comes enclosed in a plastic bag, and has a LCD screen protector that serves exclusively as safety for the transportation purposes.It must be removed so to operate the multimeter.Battery 9VIt came with a pre-installed (Gold in color) GP-Alkaline made in Malaysia.With expiration date 4/2016 = fresh as hot cake.On the battery cover, even if this unit does not have waterproof specifications, there is an o-ring that it would stop any liquid from getting in it, especially when it is out of the holster.From the inner side (battery compartment), there is a large sponge, which keeps the battery stable and unmovable.Soft buttons and range switchThe soft buttons gives a nice feeling, and they are responsive 100%.With no force at all and just gentle moves, they perform nicely.The range switch, well honestly even if it works well enough,I am a bit disappointed from it.1) Its very small in diameter, limits the space for the fingers.2) Because of the small diameter you have less control by rotating it in a hurry.3) It looks like that there was a disagreement or battle on the drawing board (designer’s room), between usability and looking nice, and the second suggestion did win.The feeling of the range switch if you have small fingers could be called as very good, the rotation is smooth, and you do get the feeling that underneath of your fingers hides one good quality mechanism.LCD DisplayThe LCD display it is bright enough and easy to read from a distance, and came with the fonts style that I favour mostly, due the fact that I dislike the rounded bulky fonts.The display passed with success the known external pressure test, like pushing the clear plastic with your fingers and looking for any side effects on the viewable area.The first annoyance that I found on it called as narrow viewable angle (top bottom), the display offers the best contrast when be placed at your eye level or higher than that, when standing on the tilt bail.When is set face up with out the tilt bail the contrast is good again.It will possibly annoy you less if it is used for field work, with the magnetic hanger. (optional !! )And it will annoy you more if it is placed with the tilt bail turned upside down, so to hang the meter from a hook or nail or pipe, the narrow viewable angle will cause some fading.For bench work (when it stands on the tilt bail) I have to offer two suggested ways of placement, far and away from you (40 - 50 centimeters (20 inch), or close to you and be (10 centimeters or 4 inch) higher than the height of your own bench table.The second but smaller annoyance could be the fact that there is no on-screen numeric indication about the voltage range, usually found at the end of the bar graph.My other multimeters haves that, Fluke 28II, Agilent U1272A, DER EE DE-208A.Bar-graphWell made and the fastest ever seen up to date, even the fastest fluctuation can be visible, and it could turn as great assistance about detecting ripple issues.I have noticed that this LCD display type (500,000 counts) and bar graph design, it is shared among Japanese and Taiwanese manufacturers.In some of those designs when the bar graph gets over the 500V mark, it shows an on-screen indication as “Over” and that’s it.On the BM869 the over range indicator on the bar graph is a small black arrow pointing at the right, and shows up after the number 5.Personally I would expect the bar graph to be capable to indicate the working range in more detail, the markings like 0 to 5V remains unchanged no matter if you measure 10 to 50 Volts.Insignificant detail for some people, but it is an aid for some others like me.LCD & Screen protectionI was prepared by having plenty of screen protectors for my 400EUR worth PDA-GPS, and so I just install one of those, on it.Brymen should invest some research about offering a screen protector for the large LCD display, which is the key point of this multimeter.The LCD display it is protected from a small impact (face down) like 1 meter drop with the holster on the floor.The holster at the top side extends near to half centimetre, and acts as top bumper and the rubber banana plugs acts as bottom bumper.Both landing points offer enough clearance and protection on the LCD display and range switch.Back-lightExtremely powerful and uniform with just three LED, when the multimeter is set correctly about the best viewable angle, the back light will positively impresses you, to the point of having it always on (But this is not possible).If the multimeter is not positioned at the best viewable angle, the back-light would make things even worst, speaking about screen contrast.The back-light timer was hiding another annoyance for my taste, at the hard copy of the User’s manual it is clearly say that the BM869 holds the back-light on for 32 seconds, and in my BM869 it works just for 16 seconds.(I have all ready informed Brymen about that)The specific model does not offer any further control over the back-light timer, there is no power-up option about disabling the back-light timer.Also the processor of the BM869 does not accept firmware updates by the infrared USB cable, and so for my timer issue there is no a quick fix.Auto-Power-off (APO)The Auto-Power-off (APO) mode turns the meter off automatically to extend battery life after approximately 17 minutes of no activities.Activities are specified as:1) Rotary switch or push button operations2) Significant measuring readings of above 9% of range or non-OL readings.In other words, the meter will intelligently avoid entering the APO mode when it is under normal measurements, that is quit Impressive!Disabling Auto-Power-offPress the SELECT button while turning the meter on to temporarily disable the Auto-Power-Off feature.Turn the rotary switch OFF and then back on to resume.Holster and tilt bailThe holster it is well made, and with the tilt bail open, the meter stands solid like a rock on the bench, Brymen had use a very wide tilt bail on it, the feeling of the total stability, brings a big smile on my face.The specific tilt bail has the option to turn up and hang the meter from a nail/hook/pipe/, due the issue with the narrow viewable angle, this way of using the holster it could possibly not be the best.This rubber holster offers enough protection against impact (four corners).It is slimmer at the middle point and gives a good grip and positive feeling in the hand.It was not made by the philosophy found on the very inexpensive multimeters, like be an extra rubberized box.It is specifically tailored to attach like a glove and have special inner points in all the perimeter of it, so to almost lock-on on the body of the multimeter.The final result is that it feels nice in my large palm, plus it gives a more natural grip than what the 28II offers.The base idea is that this holster would always be present and part of the BM869.About removal, the best way is to start taking it off by using the low left corner, and by gently pushing backwards.By inspecting the BM869 with out the holster, I found on the top side two specially manufactured pressure points like oval shaped holes, look like anchor points, but the rubber holster does not have anything from inside.Could be an abandoned idea, or about a plan for another way of keeping the multimeter in position with out the specific holster.Magnetic hangerI did not receive any, probably not available as accessory yet.But I like to have one when it will be available.I have noticed that Sanwa (Japan) uses on their PC7000 digital multimeter, a holster with identical characteristics like the Brymen holster, plus they share the same plastic connector at the rear port about the PC connectivity KIT.And there is the option to attach even the magnetic hanger accessory, on the base of the Infrared port, and stays in there when it’s not in use.My impression is that a belt type magnetic hanger is a more appropriate design or choice, than using nylon string as link between the multimeter body and the magnet.User’s ManualThe hard copy that came with the multimeter looks small with few pages, but hides a compact guide for the new comer electrician with chapters regarding safety, True RMS, and basic how-to about measurements’.It is well written and easy to understand, and totally complete about every technical specification about the multimeter, as example: battery consumption, LCD consumption etc.Unfortunately it is no available currently on the Brymen web site as download, but it is available under request.My suggestion would be to become larger in dimensions by 20%, with larger fonts.PC connectivity KIT – OptionalThankfully I got one of those too.My quick impression: Simple to use and friendly software, I love it.The Infrared USB cable gets attached on the back of the BM869, and in a special locking point, as soon it gets in place with allots of caution ( due the fact that this design requires half rotation with precision) it is ready for action.By the first look the locking point for the Infrared USB cable, does not look that robust, but it is compact in size, and the cable gets out from the side of the Infrared device, and even if the Infrared device protrudes a bit, it is even aloud the multimeter to be placed flat down and does not forces you to use the tilt bail like other designs do.But there was no special planning about operating it flat down, for example the DER EE DE-208A includes rubber pads on the Infrared device, which is a better approach.As long BRYMEN and the Japanese SANWA, have faith on this specific Infrared design, I will accept it too as good enough, but the robustness factor needs to be tested in time, this design are still very fresh in the market.Base features & specifications• 4 4/5 digit 50,000 count LCD• Dual Display• 500,000 Count Stable DCV Mode• 1000V input protection• True RMS• Data/Crest Hold & Min/Max recording• Back-light Display• dBm Readings• Duty cycle• VFD-Voltage filtering for variable speed drives• %4-20 Loop Current Measurement• Dual Temperature Display (Type-k)• PC Interface & Software (Optional)Sensing: AC / AC+DC True RMSUpdate Rate:4-4/5 digits fast mode: 5 per second nominal5-4/5 digits mode: 1.25 per second nominal41 Segments Bar graph: 60 per second maxThe meter protection rating, against the users, is double insulation perIEC/EN/UL/61010-1 2nd EditionsCAN/CSA C22.2 No. 61010.1-0.92 to Category IV 1000 Volts AC & DCCENELEC Low-voltage directive 2006/95/ECElectromagnetic compatibility directive 2004/108/ECTransient protection: 12kV (1.2/50uS surge)The meter is intended only for indoor useOperating Temperature: 0C to 45CFor more detailed specification its best to visit the product page.Price range: about 210 Euros - VAT includedOther strong points of the BM869 VS BM867:Support for Dual K-type thermocouple.Higher accuracy in the DC range, plus Ohms rangeThe unit shows Hz simultaneously with ACV DCV ACA DCA1000V HRC fuses in both inputs uA/mA & A.The test probes are by far superior in quality & complying with CAT-IV 1000V.The unit comes with one K-type thermocouple.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 02:57:18 am
content: Part – 3BM869 Exploring the basic featuresContinuity modeLightning fast response, clear beep sounds with no scratching, it will satisfy even the most demanding user, and my word would be that it is impressive.The beeper stops beeping if the resistor is over the 84 Ohms.And the maximum measured resistor in this range will be 531 Ohm before it displays OL.(Brymen should check again the specifications on this, about the Audible threshold: between 20 Ohm and 200 Ohm range, that is on the User’s manual)Ohms rangeThe Agilent U1272A is the faster multimeter at the 30,000 counts that I have in my collection so far, surely the Brymen is close enough and needs a blink of the eye as delay so to perform the measurement (half second).In the beginning I thought that it was a delay caused by the auto range, but it was not.Accurate all the way, plus the resolution of the 50,000 counts, makes the measurement an enjoyable task.An example about over range tolerance, in the manual range of 50K Ohm, the range will go up to 53K before it displays OL.The smallest range is the 500 Ohm and the highest the 50M Ohm.Relative modeWell with the BM869 I was had a major surprise in this mode.The relative mode does not lock the auto-range.I was able to REL-Out at zero ohms, and go up to 1M Ohm.That is the end of the road of my DIY Resistors Decade Box of 0.1% tolerance.Hacked Gadgets - DIY Tech Bloghttp://hackedgadgets.com/2010/09/04/diy-resistors-decade-box/Impressive!Bar graph – speed comparisonEven faster than the Agilent U1272A and the Fluke 28II, the BM869 it is adequately fast.I tested it with my reference 10V DC source, and I repeat the test over 10 times by playing with the on-off switch of my source, the human eye is unable to catch the movement of the extending segments at this speed.The Agilent was close enough, and the Fluke 28II looked to be very slow so to follow in this specific race.At the Crest mode (Min-Max or Peak to Peak) the bar graph its not visible or active.The same behavior haves also the Fluke 28II, but the Agilent U1272A it does have the bar graph active in this mode, and it is a major advantage to have a visual indication that the circuitry under test, remains active (energized).Capacitance meterWith the auto range function, the capacitor gets tested in every range (lowest to highest) for half second, and this happens again and again until the multimeter to ramp up to the correct range.This causes a small delay nearly to one second for its one attempt.Examples: Auto range VS Manual range.10,000uF…7 seconds……………3 seconds1,000uF…. 6 seconds...........3 seconds240uF……..6 seconds...........1 second47uF……….4 seconds...........1 second22uF……….3 seconds..........1 second1uF…………2 seconds..........1 secondThe discharge function engages automatically and there is on-screen notification.Notes:The test was made with capacitors that were all ready discharged.Test leads: crocodiles with 17 cm total cable length (UNI-T).DC / AC voltsSpeaking about accuracy the BM869 side by side with the Agilent U1272A was like watching a mirror image.The calibration on both was matching up to the last digit.This made me to play with my DC power supply for long time, by trying to find with a major difficulty a voltage setting that the final count will be different.About LCD speed it was a pleasure to watch them, ramp up and down as to was twin brothers.Personally I got a bit excited due the fact that with the 50,000 counts resolution of the BM869, for a first time in my life I was able to see the output of my Professional KENWOOD PD35-10A PSU in such detail.By using my reference adjustable DC voltage source (MICRO-CALC 1030 TimeElectronics.co.uk) I managed to get down to zero volts.And in there the BM869 was +4 counts at the 500,000 counts resolution, at the room temperature of 16 Celsius.On the AC modes the picture was positive too, and even I found something on the BM869 that even the U1272A does not do.I could select interchangeable view of voltage and frequency, by selecting witch one will be displayed at the primary or secondary display.Even at Crest mode (Peak to Peak) I got the same voltage from both multimeters up to the last count, with the help of the PHILIPS PM-5134 0.1mHz-20MHZ 20Vpp Function generator as source.Part – 4BM869 – Advanced featuresIntro:My fresh involvement about such product reviews caused a very positive impact even to my local Greek friends.In order to help me out, they voluntarily offer their own test equipment as loan, so to perform in depth tests with dignity.I like to publicly thanks Mr. Mario’s Karathanasopoulos (Version computers store) who offered to me the PHILIPS PM-5134 20MHZ 20Vpp Function generator.Mario’s is an excellent computers engineer, with studies in England, and he is also involved with electronic repairs of laptops, computer monitors, and modern PSU.Duty cycleThe user’s manual describes as frequency range about duty cycle, the range of 5Hz – 500Hz, 2.5Vpp.I selected the 500Hz and I connect in series the Agilent U1272A & Fluke 28II, with coaxial RG-58 high quality cables plus BNC T-type bridges, BNC to banana adapters (By Pomona), and a 50 Ohm BNC terminator.I did take pictures of my test at 25% Duty cycle, 45% and at 88%.There is no need to say how happy I am with the results.Other than the prefect behavior of the BM869 speaking about accuracy, I managed to verify too that my other two industrial multimeters were spot on.The Brymen BM869 were is par with the Fluke 28II speaking about speed, in any movement of the Duty cycle knob, the meters was ramping up instantly and this helps allot to adjust the Duty cycle by simply watching the LCD screen.The Agilent U1272A in the Data cycle mode, was have also active and the secondary display measuring volts , and with the dual display active it was a bit slow to follow the fast ramp up, I have had to stop moving the knob so the U1272A to measure and display the Data cycle.The poor behavior of the Agilent multimeter it did disappointed me, and at the same time it trigger me to the point to add in my criteria about future reviews, three more parameters.a) Good enough to adjust Duty cycle.b) Good enough to verify the Duty cycle.c) Good enough in both.And so the BM869 it is: Good enough in both.Frequency counterOn the Duty cycle test, I followed to the letter all the suggested technical specifications, but for the frequency counter test, I decided to act wild.The 1mHz-20MHZ function generator was all that I needed for a true crash test.My goal was to discover the max stable displaying frequency by the use of square & sine wave.At the frequency range of 50Hz – 20 kHz or even 50 kHz, all multimeters was spot on, up to the last count.Now it was time to explore the unspecified territory, the results are very interesting, and as assistance and confirmation about the displayed frequency I did use my trusty LEADER LDC-831 dedicated frequency counter 5Hz-150MHz.Results with square wave, and max obtained stable frequency reading:Fluke 28II……….. 167 kHzAgilent U1272A….285 kHzBrymen BM869…..1460 kHzResults with sine wave, and max obtained stable frequency reading:Fluke 28II……….. 800 kHzAgilent U1272A….1600 kHz or (1.6 MHz)Brymen BM869…..7380 kHz or (7.38 MHz)Impressive!Unexpected results the least that I can say.But this is the fun about crash tests, you get the unexpected.The duration of my tests at those frequencies was limited to 10 to 20 seconds of time.I do not suggest to any one to feed those multimeters with so high frequency, but still it is good to know of what they can do.The BM869 specification by the book it is up to 1MHz.Low Pass Filter – VFD Voltage FilterIntro:By having the function generator at hand I managed to perform one relatively interesting test, the purpose of the specific filter are to eliminate high frequencies, above the 1 KHz mark, but does it? And how well it does that?The experiment that follows are 100% my own idea.I am not aware if it stands as realistic in the world of metrology, but it is my personal best shot, as a simple Industrial electrician.Process:I set in series the three multimeters (BNC connectors and RG-58 cables), set the frequency generator to shine wave 50Hz and set the voltage at the max 7V AC.The second step was to verify that those 7V AC was there with out voltage droop from 50HZ up to 20 kHz at the standard AC mode in all three multimeters.The third step was to activate the Low Pass Filter on the U1272A and 28II multimeters, and to use the VFD AC range (Low Pass Filter) on the BM869.Then I started to ramp up the frequency and to monitor the 7V voltage, and to keep notes of what happened all the way up to 15.5 kHz.My first observation was that in all three meters the voltage starts to be affected at the 285 - 300Hz and upper.And so this is the first note that worth’s to be noted, which is that the 300Hz looks to be the low end from the Low Pass filter.The idea behind this experiment is to force the Low Pass filter to eliminate all those 7V, because it would see it as interference, or in a simplified description, as the enemy that this filter is designed to eliminate.Now let’s see how the Low Pass filter reacts in those multimeters versus the frequency change.Frequency…. U1272A ………28II ………BM86950Hz …………. 7.00V………….7.00V……7.00V500Hz…………..6.80…………..6.70……..6.80800Hz…………..6.34…………..5.18………4.301000Hz…………5.86………….. 3.53……..2.421200Hz…………5.28…………….2.52…….1.381400Hz…………4.62…………….1.45…….0.831600Hz…………3.69…………….0.98…….0.532000Hz…………2.65…………….0.48…….0.243000Hz………….1.004000Hz………….0.505500Hz………….0.2415500Hz………..0.00What those numbers prove?Well it is obvious that the BM869 haves the most aggressive filters, with the Fluke 28II as second best.And in the case that you do have real interference and spikes, what you need most, is an umbrella against the unwanted frequencies, and it turns out that the BRYMEN BM869 it is from the best ones out there!The U1272A looks to have the less aggressive filter, and rightfully it takes the third place in the specific test.Temperature – Dual K-ProbesThe BM869 is capable to display both readings of T1 & T2 simultaneously or a single selection of the T1 or T2, or even as T1-T2 (difference of the two).What worth’s be noted is the blazing speed at detecting the temperature.Even in dual display mode it is just a bit behind than the Agilent and Fluke, but the time delay is not measurable because it is at the range of micro Seconds.The Min/Max/Average (REC-R) function works nicely, in the single selection of K-Probes like T1 or T2 and records the selected one, but when the BM869 is at T1 & T2 dual display mode, the Min-Max defaults to record the T1 probe.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 03:02:33 am
content: Part – 5BM869 – Just another one DMM, with Industrial profile?Well if I was had read the specifications on paper with out performing all those tests, I would not had many reasons to cheer up about it, other than the large display and the extra counts.The lack of exterior armor like shock proof for three meters drop or water proof, plus the huge and lovely display, characterizes this multimeter by my opinion as:60% bench work40% field work.The great performance at the VFD test, and the frequency counter test, and in all the tests, makes me to wish this multimeter to was had an IP67 rating.But if it was had be IP67, it would probably not be affordable, or it would be slow as slow caw.Let’s not forget the magic word “affordable “, in this case I am happy as is.And the description would be as: an affordable speed demon with out armor.From my experiences as maintains industrial electrician, every in depth troubleshooting of light weight equipment up to 200 kilos, it is executed at maintains electrical repair lab in the factory.And the BM869 stands well enough to be the main multimeter in such a lab.Definably it will not disappoint as portable hand held, it is features rich multimeter, with CAT IV 1000V, one of the safest on the planet.With excellent test leads, plus loaded with all the features for industrial field work.Probably one high quality carrying bag will offer to it the missing armor, and that’s it.But speaking about working in dark places, the Agilent U1272A is one undisputed winner, due the fact that has a fully adjustable timer on the backlight, and it can even be disabled.The BM869 with the 16 seconds timer it can not compete at all, even the Fluke 28II has an special power on mode, that disables the backlight timer.Part – 6BM869 – How it feels on common tasks? Easy to use?The BM869 follows the clear key design, which more expensive multimeters follow today.And this is an added plus by thinking how affordable it is.Even with out reading the User’s manual, you can navigate in to the 90% of the functions.The markings around the range selector are nicely printed, and the font’s size and font’s style gives a positive impression.Even the selection of the color on the font’s that separates the functions as primary secondary third, they were made with attention in the detail, and the multimeter does not loose the professional look.The beep sound is laud enough, and it can also be disabled if needed by a special power up option.Set Beeper Off = Press the RANGE button while turning the meter on.The test leads with the additional converters, banana add-on leads & CAT IV 1000V plastic insulators will force you to get one soft case, so to store them inside with the multimeter, plus to store the K-type probe, and the optional PC connectivity KIT.The banana plugs on the test leads is a new experience for me, plugging the test leads directly to mains sockets becomes an extremely easy task, and the most important? your hands are free.When working on electrical panels its best to use the CAT IV 1000V plastic insulators on the test leads, you have to remove first the banana ends, but even so when working on electrical panels with them it is a major help, against accidental short-circuits.If the BM869 was coming also with one set of professional crocodile clips (Fluke style), this multimeter would have the most complete set of test leads, ever offered.Part – 7BM869 battery consumption - Back-light durabilityThe BM869 comes with one 9V battery, and this selection of power source, in such of a multimeter, limits by allot the usability of the advanced functions for example the data logging duration.But as long the multimeter is designed to be a non standalone Data logger, I do not think that the battery consumption really maters.BRYMEN did make the work to record and inform about the battery consumption in detail, in the supplied User’s manual.Power Supply: Single Alkaline 9V batteryPower Consumption: 6.5mA typical, 8mA for VFD ranges (BM869 only)Low Battery: Below approx. 7VAPO Timing: Idle for 17 minutesAPO Consumption: 70uA typical (sleep mode)At my 30 days of testing I never seen the low-battery indicator, until the fourth week, and it was started to flash in the screen when I was had the meter on for about two hours all ready.I was using the Min-Max-Average (REC-R) function, and the flashing battery indicator attracted my attention, I tested instantly to see what happens in the other ranges too, and it was triggered only at Min-Max and in the capacitance mode.Be aware that in Greece we have December that is a cold month in this region and the cold effects the battery performance by allot, the room temperature when I got the flashy battery indicator was at 15-16 Celsius.The next day I did not see the flashy battery indicator, even with the backlight on.The User’s manual is a bit poor about specific information’s for the battery indicator status.From my experience I will guess that the flashy battery indicator it is nothing to worry about, until you get a permanent activation of the battery indicator on the display.On the Agilent U1272A review, I had performed a crash test by keeping the backlight on for hours, until the batteries to drop dead.With the BM869 this is not possible, the preset on the timer about the 16 seconds limit, it does not allow me to bypass it.From the other hand one so sort duration of active backlight it is impossible to cause any damage to it.Part – 8BM869 – LCD display – Multiple functionsI have all ready present much information’s and details in the chapters above about the LCD display even so it worth to be noted that the BM869 is made by the philosophy that both displays will be on by default.And because the dual display thingy is something new as approach it worth’s to share with you few more of my experiences with an example.On the U1272A when I power it up on the ACV mode the main display shows the voltage and the secondary the temperature of the inner K-type sensor (room temperature).The temperature reading does not need much of CPU usage, and the primary display updates extremely fast (220V).When I activate the secondary display to work as frequency counter (50Hz) there is two tasks active and some delay starts to be there.If I activate AC+DC mode on the U1272A also it slows down a bit.At the BM869 when I power it up on the ACV mode, the main display shows the voltage and the secondary the frequency (50Hz), there is no way to select watching just the voltage.And this concludes to the fact that the BM869 is made by having in mind that it will continually multitask, and this explains also of why is that fast in some single functions, like the Duty Cycle test.In this test the U1272A was having active and the voltage function on the upper display by default.I was able to see the voltage from -3V to become zero at 50% Duty cycle and to rise at the +3V at the 88% Duty cycle.Well that’s nice but it killed all the speed about LCD refresh rate, and I wanted all the speed at the Duty Cycle measurement so to be able to adjust it, but I did not have it.The Fluke 28II from the other hand is a single display multimeter, all the power of the internal CPU works for the single measurement that it was set to perform.If it was possible to multitask like the other multimeters do, the CPU would also have issues if it was not powerful enough.Gentlemen the modern industrial multimeters are portable computers, and this fact explain allot about their behavior. (The literate ones about computers how-to would easily understand that).

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 03:19:28 am
content: Part – 9BM869 – Front and back panelThe BM869 is a full size multimeter and a bit wider than the usual, there in no chance to hide in it 500,000 counts and stay narrow, except if your name is Master magician Harry Houdini.The exterior design in this unit is extremely good, the size of the range selector it keeps bother me as European with different body analogies than what the Asian friends have.I would suggest to Brymen to take under consideration all those details, especially for multimeters that would be exported in the west world.By looking the other models of Brymen it is visible that they do use wider range selectors is some of them, and that makes BM869 to be simply an exception.At the back of the multimeter is the tilt bail that feels good enough, and also are reversible with out the need to remove it and attach it back on.The infrared cable lock mechanism, makes me a bit skeptic about the robustness factor, I would feel much better if I was aware that there is spare parts availability about the BM869.Especially for the plastics of the front cover and back cover and even a replacement holster.BRYMEN should start thinking seriously the idea about a price catalog for spare parts too.It’s a bad idea the spare parts to become an merchandise for retailers, my suggestion would be Brymen to invest in web based sales for the spare parts,By this way the pricing will be low, and the company will gain global respect.Part – 10BM869 – Testing under extreme temperaturesWhen I wrote the review about the Agilent U1272A we were had in Greece an super hot summer, and the extreme test at 45 – 47C was an easy task.Now that I am writing this words we are in the hart of December, and I did performed this time a low temperature test.Basically one very good friend of my Peter Argyropoulos , also electrician who works in USA, he gave me a hint to test the display at low temperatures, lower than 13Celsius.Due the fact that some multimeters that circulate as re-branded in USA, and probably were older OEM production of Brymen, had show signs of not properly functioning LCD display in the low temperatures, like fading digits or slow updating digits.Well I performed my test at night and the temperature was around 7-8 Celsius.I did set the BM869 with the thermocouple on, and next to it the U1272A, and let them freeze for good, like an hour or so, this time period was enough so the multimeters to have internally and externally the same temperature.Then I took them back in, and run accuracy tests, DC volts / AC volts and Ohms.And both were responding normally and fast, no issues at all, and the most amazing was that they were holding their accuracy even frozen.Now I can proudly verify that the BM869 it is immune until 7C.By the book, the minimum operational temperature is the 0C, and so I came close enough.Some one could wonder of why I did not use the refrigerator to test it at lower than 7C?Well I like my reviews to contain usable information, and because we do not have many crazy electricians, which work at below 7C temperatures in Greece, I did not feel the need to perform such a test.Part – 11BM869 – Build to last & ConclusionEven 30 years back the DMM industry was capable to create well made DMM, and some of them are still alive.I got my first semi professional DMM before 22 years with my first toolbox and it was made in Taiwan (Pros’-Kit with Mastech PCB), still have it, and the accuracy is still good enough.Some others were made 25 years back or more, and I got them at 2010 as second hand cheap and still accurate for simple tasks, like those old Fluke bench top 8010A 8012A 8050A.I am also happy even about finding this old analog BBC Metrawatt MA4S (Industrial version of 1987), silver plated PCB / easy to read / 25A range,I needed one true needle to be on my work bench for special purposes.And I have even in good use my tiny UT30D from Uni-Trend Group Limited, as I can easily hide it in my toolbox.Nice made tools, some of those were made with excellent craftsmanship, but they do not belong in the category of the main tools by having in mind the modern needs of 2011.Modern CAT directives, New safety rules, Inverters, square waves, variable speed motors, Pulse With Motors, Duty cycle, and many more demanding measurements, leads the modern technician so to upgrade and select new and modern tools, capable to handle the modern needs.My latest upgrades were the Fluke 28II as True RMS, and the UNI-T UT15C volt-tester with phase rotation test.Excellent tools made by respectable brands, respectable for different reasons, but still respectable at list by me.The U1272A came in my life with out expecting it.The senior marketing director of Agilent in USA, Mr. Kamala Ravindaran took the decision to add me in the list of the testers, because of my proven love for multimeters and measurements, due the fact that I do have write in the past a significant amount of technical topics at the EEV Blog.And by the above opportunity that came from the Agilent camp, today I have experiences to share about the most Top of the range industrial multimeters of 2011.ConclusionThe BM869 is an excellent modern multimeter, and rightfully worth to be considered as one successful industrial grade multimeter.It can not be described as overall killer of the competition, but even so it is a worthy product, with honest pricing that matters the most today, plus loaded with many useful features that opens the door for it, so to have a great future speaking about international sales.Even me that I own 10 multimeters today, I like to keep the BM869 for ever in my tools collection.It hides performance levels that is hard to find in the price range of 200$ or near to 230 Euros in Europe.And at this price point it is second to none.I hope and wish that Brymen will keep their current pricing policy even after of reading my review.It would help many people world wide with low income to obtain a worthy 50,000 counts multimeter, like freelancer professionals or even students.BRYMEN should also seriously consider my suggestion about the spare parts,With one well organized E-shop, I would have fewer second thoughts about to become a Brymen customer too.Such a step ahead will boost more the good faith of the technicians about trusting further the product range of the company.Until today I have a very bad taste in my mouth about the offerings of China up to date, and I speak for the low performance and outdated models, with non existed spare parts and technical support.And so I feel the need to thanks BRYMEN Technology Corporation and Taiwan, for keeping up in such high standards of:1) Manufacturing quality2) Safety regulations3) Fast performing4) Reasonably priced products.It is a true personal honor to be the first who wrote a review about the Brymen BM869.This is another one of the few and truly worthy technical & educational experiences in a lifetime.Thank you BRYMEN.KIRIAKOS TRIANTAFILLOUGREECE

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:22:04 am
content: BM 869 Box & PC connectivity kit

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:25:09 am
content: ACV Tests

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:27:11 am
content: DCV mV Tests

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:28:46 am
content: DCV Tests

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:30:09 am
content: Duty cycle Tests

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:32:22 am
content: Hz - Frequency Tests

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:34:53 am
content: 8 Celsius Low temperature test.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:36:17 am
content: Data logger SoftwareSampling rate less than a second, 600ms

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 04:55:13 am
content: I wish to all the EEV members Merry Christmas and happy holidays..

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 01:35:26 pm
content: Great and throughout review, thank you! Makes me want to buy one, but I don't need yet another meter (right now, at least).

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 03:59:42 pm
content: Very good review, K. I do have to disagree about the temperature thoughI live at the same latitude as you, but it gets well below 0C here. I have had to use my multimeters outdoors at temperatures as low as -15C which is definitely an LCD killer if the LCD is below par. Maybe for future tests you could hop on a donkey and make a run up to Agios Lavrentios to test the coffee temperatures at an outdoor cafe in JanuaryP.S. Thanks for sizing the pics right. There's nothing more annoying than having to scroll photos sideways in the forum.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 06:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: PetrosA on December 15, 2011, 03:59:42 pmYes, only some one with Greek DNA would ever made a such public suggestion.It looks that today is my lucky day, I got an email from CEM.And a Christmas card with a small gift from Agilent in Germany.About the pictures, you should open wider your wallet, so to get a wide 23" screen,or send a email to Santa Claus(There is still time).Thanks man

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 07:32:50 pm
content: What about "take it a part")

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 08:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: zaoka on December 15, 2011, 07:32:50 pmI was expecting such a question.I will not take apart one such performer.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2011, 11:17:37 pm
content: Nice review, Kiriakos -- sounds like a decent meter, and you certainly seem to have put it through its paces!If I might make one suggestion, which will hopefully be taken in the constructive spirit in which it is indeed, have you considered including a few illustrative photos at relevant points in the review? For instance, in the early post where you discuss the holster and the range switch, etc., perhaps a picture or two there might be convenient for reference -- rather than the reader having to scroll up and down repeatedly (or not seeing them until the end). Just a thought!

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 12:22:51 am
content: Presents are always nice to get

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 12:47:20 pm
content: Today I received the congratulations from the President of BRYMEN about my hard work, and the fact that I did push those multimeters at the limits of their technical design.To PetrosA, I did not have one of those test leads torch, a handy little bugger

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 12:59:09 pm
content: It looks like you are ready for your own review site.www.theindustrialelectrician.comseems available!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 04:00:21 pm
content: Hello baljemmettI have added all those pictures (key points) at my last set of pictures.Thanks for pointing out this detail.Even if my review is 20 pages long (in the MS Word editor), I did forget totally to write the fact that the BM869 includes also alarm for wrong inserted test leads, with sound and on-screen warning.I did the stupid thing (that primarily looked as smart idea) to slightly push in the uA/mA and Ampere (test leads) inputs the banana add-on accessories of the test leads, so to keep them safe or temporarily stored, when the BM869 was powered off.And guess what had happened after power it on? LOLI feel less guilt’s about not writing even a word about the dbm capability of this multimeter, because it is a bit out of the scope of the industrial electrician.But I did DCA tests, this multimeter have uA mode among the others, with my primitive tests tools and a bit of technical inspiration, I managed to add my decade box in conjunction with the 10 turn’s potentiometer of my precision voltage/current source, and I did miracles at the end.A picture set from 6uA up to 10A DC.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2011, 04:12:14 pm
content: Picture set from 6uA up to 10A DCI believe that after those images the review is 99% complete, that is good enough.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2011, 03:35:21 am
content: Note:About the Agilent U1272A.Just got the information, that Agilent are aware about the LPF issue and they have all ready a fix.

author: cc1960
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 01, 2012, 02:39:38 am
content: GREAT review.Does anyone know where to buy this DMM in Europe.Christian

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2012, 10:10:20 am
content: Quote from: cc1960 on January 01, 2012, 02:39:38 amI'm listening too. It is quite hard to find on Ebay.

author: eternal_noob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 03:06:55 pm
content: Quote from: cs.dk on January 01, 2012, 10:10:20 amNote that this meter is sold under a different brand name (Elma BM869) in Scandinavia. Interested people should contact Elma in their respective countries.http://www.elma.dk/_da-DK/v:1385;130070?visma5.prodno=5706445410378I'm going for a BM829

author: Michael B
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 12, 2012, 04:18:38 pm
content: The Brymen meters are being marketed in the USA under the Greenlee brand!http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDotCom/Products/main.shtml?p_search=dm860a&greenlee_category_id=100&Submit=Find&portalProcess_2=showGreenleeProductTemplate&upc_number=12938Got this info directly from Brymen.Excellent review Kiriakos!

author: Michael B
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 12, 2012, 04:22:15 pm
content: A better link:http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDotCom/Products/main.shtml?greenlee_category_id=6&product_category=157&adodb_next_page=1

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2012, 11:14:49 pm
content: Quote from: cc1960 on January 01, 2012, 02:39:38 amHi!You can get it from TME (Transfer Multisort Elektronik)http://www.tme.euThey ship everywhere in Europe.

author: DEHiCKA
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2012, 06:37:18 pm
content: Good find! BTW, functionality looks exact the same like famous japan Sanwa's new model -PC7000Only major differences are case and display. It's even pops the same "InErr" message with wrong connected leads and have exactly the same thermocouple

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2012, 10:44:53 am
content: Ahhh ... Sanwa , just porno for me ... I had their analog meters since young ( okay , it died 2 years ago from a leaking battery and i didn't know how to repair it back then , but i have 4 meters now to remember her)

author: remy_m
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2012, 06:08:25 am
content: Nice review on the BM867 multimeter.I got the BM857a instead (limited funds) and from the specs is quite similar.I was wondering how can i calibrate it, what pots do what.

author: Eagle88
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 11, 2012, 08:23:10 pm
content: Hi,I would just report that i recently bought the Brymen BM869 from TME but i didn't receive the add-on plastic insulators and the banana plugs.The tips of test leads (branded B.T.C.) haven't the screw thread and they aren't "gold plated" as seems in figure, infact the continuity test is scratching (but is not an issue of multimeter circuitery).Another thing I noticed is the persistance of some digits in DC-mV (0.0# mV) instead of all zero digits and bargraph that oscillates between 0 and 1 when waiting for measuring.All the rest is very good as written in Kiriakos's review.

author: arekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2012, 05:35:13 am
content: @ Kiriakos: so which dmm you use most often now ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2012, 03:46:39 pm
content: Quote from: arekm on August 23, 2012, 05:35:13 amthat guy is not around anymore. dont further waste your energy asking.

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2012, 10:35:06 am
content: I ordered the BM869 with USB cable from TME. (thanks for the link, the greenlee on conrad does cost much more and only ships in October, 442 Euro vs 286 Euro; Fluke 87-5 =595 Euro)It seems the electronics is also the same as these: (without dual display)BM857 -> MM560Ahttp://www.extech.com/testequipment/product.asp?catid=48&prodid=283BM859 -> MM570Ahttp://www.extech.com/testequipment/product.asp?catid=48&prodid=284It's useful if you are looking for a decent PDFI was checking the burden voltage (voltage drop on device) of the BM869 compared to the list that Dave had in his µcurrent document when I noticed the same specs.EDIT: I saw this extech link was already mentioned in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/review-of-extech-mm570a-anyone-wants-a-review/msg55920/#msg55920

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 01:20:54 pm
content: For those looking for one of these, it apparently as also sold under Extech (MM560 is the same as the DM867A, and the MM570A is the same as the DM869A).Might be worth considering if Dave goes through with a $200+ shootout, and someone decides one of these meters is for them.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2013, 05:59:30 pm
content: They are the same, except the equivalent is the BM85X series, not the BM86X series and for the big price difference!

author: bloddybrian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:49:54 pm
content: I just spent almost an hour reading this thread.Then I noticed it is almost 5 years old.Then I noticed the poster has been banned.Is this a good meter for the price?

author: bloddybrian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:58:49 pm
content: Oops and is it better than the 867?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 02:59:12 am
content: Quote from: bloddybrian on May 19, 2016, 09:49:54 pmBased on the pricing at tme.eu, absolutely.FWIW, it's a well built meter that meets its CAT ratings. A number of other members own them it seems, and are quite pleased based on their posts. I don't have this particular model, but my BM857A is rather well built IME (BM867's daddy). Although it's primary use is on a bench, it gets a fair bit of automotive use as well, so has seen a fair number of ~1m or so drops to no ill effect.Quote from: bloddybrian on May 19, 2016, 09:58:49 pmYes, the BM867 is it's little brother (slightly fewer features & a bit less accurate). See link below.If you don't need the extra features however, it's also an excellent meter & will save you some funds (useful if on a tight budget).1. I know it can be confusing & not the easiest bits to find, but all of this has been covered before in multiple threads (searching prior to posting questions will win you points with other members).2. For convenience:Brymen's page on the BM86x series(.pdf; compares the two models)BM867 & BM869 @ tme.eu(best pricing out there AFAIK; shipping is very reasonable as well).Hope this helps.

author: bloddybrian
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 07:48:44 pm
content: Thanks nano. I did a search but there seemed to be a lot of answers and my eyesight is not the best.Thank you for your answer.

author: TheBo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 06:50:41 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 20, 2016, 02:59:12 ambought last week from welectron...the official German distributor for Brymen, got the high quality gold plated threaded tips lead with bananas that can be screwed on.... the top of the line leads Brymen produces.and also meter arrived from Germany to my jobs place in 2 days. Branded from welectron.From what i've been told it's the seller that asks Brymen to include one or the other version of leadsMarco which was very kind replying my questions via Eevblog messages shipped my order in just few hours from the payment. Very impressed from the service and the meter itself, as i am an hobbist, this will be my reference for long time....They also do calibration and offer 2 year warranty across EU.Just reporting my experience here, sorry. I've asked a lot of question to be on the safe side befor pulling the trigger since i'm an hobbist and not a pro like many of you i just wanted to be sure, I can provide pics of what i received if someone asks for them.Sorry for the long post

author: yuzuha
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 07:31:51 am
content: Thanks... that was a great review Kiriakos. Couldn't find one in the USA so I bought the Greenlee version ( DM 860A is their model number.... as far as I can tell, it is identical except the boot is green and comes in a nice zippered cloth pouch)

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 07:51:24 am
content: I have a question for other users of this meter. On three different occasions now, I have been measuring dc voltage on a board and been puzzled as to why all my power rails were dead. Turns out that the rotary switch on my unit sometimes doesn't latch properly into its detent and I have to give it a wiggle to be sure that it is located properly. This is an irritating and potentially even dangerous feature that ruins an otherwise excellent meter for me. Has anyone else struck this or is it just mine?

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 09:16:41 am
content: I have mine since six days...Nope, it doesn´t occur yet (at least until now).I´ve tried to set it outside of the detended position. No chance, it latched automaticilly.If I´ve reached a stable position "between" the positions, then the display doesn´t show any digits at all.

author: TheBo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 07:46:51 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 13, 2017, 07:51:24 ammy bm867s (3 days old) does not either. It's impossible to place the selector in between two selections, I've tried in many ways....it's very sturdy and precise

author: Crumble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 11:25:17 pm
content: I might not be asking this on the proper place, but does anyone know what the 's' suffix on the typenumber means? I found it to be present/absent at random. Even on theBrymen siteit shows as being the BM869s, but the unit on the picture shows no suffix.Regards,Crumble

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 11:58:39 pm
content: Quote from: Crumble on March 16, 2017, 11:25:17 pmI was asked so many times I finally asked Brymen, assuming they may know. See below:Quote

author: TheBo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 10:21:15 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 16, 2017, 11:58:39 pmIn the case of the 857, didn't the "s" version meaning it has the improved backlight from the 857a ?OT: Mr joe, your videos are cooli absolutely LOVE them, you are the most checked per week in my 20 plus followed channels. And sorry for faking your follower counts, i've subscribed it with my 2 different youtube accounts i hope just to learn more and more from you and and maybe see varied videos since i have just schoolastic education. Sorry for the OT

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 11:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: TheBo on March 17, 2017, 10:21:15 amI wondered why I had so many followers!Glad you enjoy them. Up coming one will be about the current shunts I saved from some of the ones I damaged.

author: Crumble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 09:00:47 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 16, 2017, 11:58:39 pmThanks for answering, because I initially googled it, and failed. Imagine that, in 2017.Hopefully, the next one won't have to.Quote from: TheBo on March 17, 2017, 10:21:15 am+1 For that! You may know you were the intial reason I started out considering Brymen as an option. Good work, keep it up!Regards,Crumble

author: Ingo
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 02:56:55 pm
content: Hi,after reading the impressive review of Kiriakos and after informing myself at the net, I also bought the BM869s. (I use for years a VC920 Voltcraft from Conrad electronics.)I am satisfied with this meter but I have a question for any user of that Multimeter:Could you please use the meter for a DCV measurement at resolution of 50.000 as well as 500.000 count and measure a voltage source (for example a fresh battery or a different stable DC source) and then interchange the voltage probes so that the measured voltage changes its sign. Do you get the same absolute value? What is the difference you can measure?I wrote to Brymen to aks if there is a point in the calibration procedure to compensate such differences and I was told that there is no such possibility.Greetings from PotsdamIngo.

author: chronos42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 03:19:12 pm
content: Hi,At my 869S I see a difference of approximate 20 counts when I reverse the voltage in the 500.000 count mode (5V).Grüße aus Karlsruhe nach Potsdam

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 03:41:57 pm
content: Wow! 2 counts is huge. Accuracy is supposed to be 0.05%+2 in the 5V range.Calibration is usually done with positive and negative DC voltages, according to my DAkkS calibration results.Did the test on a Gossen 26S and Fluke 867B, both 30,000 count meters, with a voltage reference. There was no count difference between positive and negative voltages (2.5V and 5V).

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 09:09:16 pm
content: the "s" version are an upgraded back light version ... and maybe pcb or functions updates, but the back light where the first thing they changed.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 09:40:33 pm
content: Hi,some more data:2.5006- 2.50062.50063- 2.500695.0020- 5.00225.00205- 5.002247.502- 7.5027.5026- 7.503110.003- 10.00410.0039- 10.0044Disappointing. Even the readings of the Uni-T UT61E are - no matter if with correct or reversed polarity - identical...Grüße aus dem SauerlandHartmut

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 09:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on June 19, 2017, 09:09:16 pmThe backlight was upgradet at the 857s and 859s.(If you ask me: Damn necessary...)Not changed: The backlight of the 867s and 869s. There was no need for changing anything.But all series with the added "s" were adapted to the new IEC regulations.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 09:21:40 am
content: Another test that joeqsmith could perform on every meterCan we ask you Joe?Quote from: ProBang2 on June 19, 2017, 09:40:33 pm

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 10:26:49 am
content: Quote from: ProBang2 on June 19, 2017, 09:40:33 pmBut it's still within specs, right? Although, I understand you feelings. I like when tools perform well.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:23:54 pm
content: I wonder about your 1200000 counts meter Metrahit 30M?Also no count difference?Quote from: Wytnucls on June 19, 2017, 03:41:57 pm

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 01:48:10 pm
content: The 30M is out of calibration now.Original calibration certificate:1V 0.999 997 -0.999 997 10uV accuracy uncertainty.10V 9.999 97 -9.999 93 100uV accuracy uncertainty.Ran it anyway, after some warm-up:voltage reference 5.000 05 (out of calibration)Measured 05.000 12 -05.000 12 (filter set at 16 samples for both measurements).

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 06:51:22 pm
content: Nice your all Gossen metres!Thank you!My Fluke 289 (bought used), after 10min :battery aaa, alkaline, used:+1.4701 V-1.4699 VSo 2 counts difference seems to be common.Hopefully we are not too offtopic...

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 07:11:13 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 19, 2017, 03:41:57 pmUnless I am mistaken, 0,05% of 5.00000V is 0.00250V, i.e. 250 counts in 500,000 count mode.So 2 counts, or even 20 counts as you probably meant to write, is not bad at all.

author: cola_sorbet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:52:40 pm
content: Thanks for the great review, I just picked up a new BM-869s a few weeks ago to replace my Fluke. After long consideration and help from these forums I'm glad I decided to go with the Brymen.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 11:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: evava on June 20, 2017, 09:21:40 amDo you just want to see how much mine change? My guess is meters like the my free one don't change. They just can't read down low enough to detect the offset. Better meters like my Bymen and Gossen, I expect would shift the most counts. The TPI, UNI-T and CEM I would expect to shift less (less digits).Or are you just wanting to know going forward if I can show this as part of the testing?

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 08:51:22 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 20, 2017, 11:00:06 pmI wonder mainly about UT181a and of course upcoming GW121.And as part of your future testing it would be nice to know more about meters.I know now that 2 counts difference is probably normal and common, but I would like if there was no count difference at all when interchanging the probes.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 09:05:48 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 20, 2017, 07:11:13 pmFull scale is not the problem. The bottom of the scale might be.Try measuring 600mV for example. If the difference is still 2 counts, the meter could easily fall outside of its 1 year calibration.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 09:12:40 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 20, 2017, 07:11:13 pmI think accuracy is valid for 50.000 count mode only.No accuracy is specified for 500.000 count mode.http://3me.rs/PDFs/multimetri/BM860%20Uputstvo.pdf

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 11:23:31 am
content: Quote from: evava on June 21, 2017, 08:51:22 amAll meters are tied together to one start point then to the Fluke standard. Shown with 10 and 1V. As you would expect the Brymen and Gossen have the worse count change but again they do gain a digit. I did not run the free Harbor Freight meter but hard to believe meters like that would detect anything.I did not run the 121GW because I am attempting to run a different test with it. One thing to keep in mind with that meter is first, it's not in production. Anything I show with the meter may not represent how the final product behaves. Another is that because that meter can measure power, there may be more test cases you want to run. And finally, I did damage the meter which may also play into it.Also, I should mention that the Gossen is no longer factory stock. It does have those Netic and copper shields installed to help stabilize it. Of course, the UNI-T is also highly modified to get the thing to survive the grill starter. The Brymen was damaged during testing and I had to repair it, so it too is not factory fresh. The TPI is damaged with the controller IC appearing to have one or more pins with high leakage currents. The CEM was also damaged during testing and needed to be repaired. Just keep in mind that the meters as shipped from the factory may behave differently.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 12:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 21, 2017, 09:05:48 amBut why would you assume that the deviation (upon changing polarity of the input signal) stays at the same absolute magnitude when you apply a much smaller input voltage? I would expect it to be smaller, largely in proportion to the applied voltage. I am pretty confident that at 0V input signal, the effect of reversing polarity will be zero.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 02:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 21, 2017, 12:47:30 pmWhy do you assume the relationship is linear? It might not be. A simple test would put the matter to rest.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 04:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 21, 2017, 02:23:14 pmBecause of the linear accuracy spec, which is +- (0.02% of value + 2 digits).Why do you assume the spec is wrong, without even a single data point to suggest that?There is no "matter" to be put to rest, as far as I am concerned.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 04:23:14 pm
content: A simple look at Joe's 1mV pictures, will show that the relationship is not linear and points to a dubious 0.02%+2 accuracy in the mV range, at least for negative values.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 04:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 21, 2017, 04:23:14 pmAh, sorry -- I had missed that post due to the page break. That does indeed look like it's out of spec. (Assuming that the non-existent spec for the 500,000 digit mode is not worse than for the regular mode, i.e. 0.02% + 20 digits.)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 06:21:03 pm
content: I would assume the error in the 1mV is mostly due to the input bias current of the meters being combined. Running them all in parallel like I show may not be valid if you were actually taking this sort of measurement. I would need to run them all separate and was just too lazy. It would make sense they would all swing the same with roughly the same voltages. I would guess if they were separate, we would get tighter numbers and maybe a flyer meter.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2017, 10:47:55 pm
content: Repeating +/-1mV from Fluke standard to each separate meter.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 07:28:05 am
content: Thank you for posting these results!Oh, UNI-T is not bad, and temperature stability test on uV range was also fine.I only hope that sometimes in future you uncover and describe your input mods to your UT181a (to withstand grill starter at least), if they are doable for common person.Otherwise I like UT181a very muchP.S. Kiriakos is certainly happy that his thread lives again

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 10:59:00 am
content: Quote from: evava on June 22, 2017, 07:28:05 amNo problem.Quote from: evava on June 22, 2017, 07:28:05 amOf course the 181A has a non-standard battery that takes about a half day to charge and you can't use the meter while it is charging. The charger does not come with standard AC adaptors. They do not offer spare batteries so at least you could swap it out if one dies in the middle of you doing something. The clear plastic lens is really showing it's age and the meter has only seen bench use. Of course, no certification. And yes, seeing it fail so easily like many UNI-T products on the stupid little grill starter is pretty sad.I see absolutely no advantage to providing that information. If the people who ask me about it would instead ask UNI-T, you may actually see a better product. There is little I can do to change their designs beyond making videos that at least may make people aware of the shortcomings.

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 12:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 22, 2017, 10:59:00 amI understand you fully, I only thought that because you provided in full your input and other mods to UT61e.I admire you how you always are able to revive each damaged meter.Many thanks for your effort and sharing with us.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 08:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 21, 2017, 09:05:48 amI just can't understand your arguments.The BM869 is specified at 4 4/5 digits, and this spec for DCV as usual contains accuracy for the reading plus accuracy for the range, that is a relative and an absolute error spec.These errors are valid, independent of the reading, i.e. it fits to Full Scale, as well to low readings.Both errors simply add up, but do not depend on each other, so there's nothing dubious, and the 2digits error can not violate the relative 0.02% reading error, even at lower readings.Also, the question of linearity is not appropriate, here.The absolute error, also often defined as 'error of range' is the dominant value for lower readings, covering effects like internal e.m.f. voltages, and also this roll-over error (difference in reading at input reversal).So it's a bit convoluted, to distinguish e.m.f. and roll-over error, especially on low voltages as 1mV, and at low scale readings.Clever e.m.f. cancellation is needed, or usage of the higher range, where e.m.f. does not play a role.Anyhow, the BM869 obviously meets its specification in all cases, but more than that can not be expected..6 1/2 bench DMMs probably perform much better, concerning this roll-over error. For example, the HP DMMs feature an additional -10V vs. +10V calibration item, which the handheld DMMs often / mostly do not have. But that comes at a cost..For 5 4/5 digits of the BM869, the specification should be valid analogously, that means that the absolute error is 10 times higher, .. + 20 digits.As the integration time is longer for this higher resolution, that implies a different integration algorithm, or maybe a different circuit, so results may be slightly different, but hard to be detected, due to the masked digit in 4 4/5 mode.Just for completeness, I have measured the performance and linearity of the BM869 a few years ago:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bymen-bm869-measurement-of-dcv-linearity/msg666100/#msg666100,but unfortunately not measured both polarities. I will repeat this experiment accordingly, when I check my BM869 the next time.As a first shot, the roll-over error on my BM869 at 5V F.S. is about 5 digits in 5 4/5 mode, so well below the +2digits specification.Frank

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 09:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 21, 2017, 10:47:55 pmMany thanks, Joe -- and a good catch regarding the unwanted interaction between the meters connected in parallel. It is reassuring to see that the BM869 is very comfortably within its stated accuracy, once the external bias of the other meters is removed.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 11:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: evava on June 22, 2017, 12:55:46 pmYou give me FAR too much credit. Very few meters I damage can be repaired. Many of them use chip on board. Most you can't get replacement parts for. So if the meter it not designed to at least protect the control IC, they are pretty much scrap. The TPI is a rare exception. Two pins on the control IC are partial damaged. I could not find a replacement IC but continue to use the meter.I have been looking into repairing the 121GW and it's been a nightmare trying to find parts as well.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 04:05:16 am
content: Wheeeeh...what a horrible color

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 12:36:12 am
content: I checked the pre-production 121GW before dissecting it today. Again it may not be aligned as well as production and it IS damaged.

author: Crumble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 01:34:39 pm
content: The value is inverted, but the connector does not seem to be reversed. How did you change the polarity?PS Sorry for being a whine, just wonderin'.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:35:03 pm
content: Quote from: Crumble on June 25, 2017, 01:34:39 pmA) Its magic!B) PhotoshopC) Discovered my experimental ubeam project has a side property where the backside radiation can invert any signal and I thought I would demonstrate itD) I swapped the connector at the reference standardE) All of the aboveUpdated per CustomEngineerer. Now we need a poll.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 03:43:30 pm
content: I vote E) All of the above!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 08:13:02 pm
content: FWIW, I suspect the proper answer isD.That said however, I thinkEwould be a lot more fun.

author: Crumble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:15:52 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 25, 2017, 02:35:03 pmYou may guess I got a little suspicious after you tested us once by not showing the reverse pulse on one of the meters (forgot which one it was).

author: RedSky
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 10:49:22 am
content: Stupid question; Can the Brymen BM869 measure frequency and duty cycle of a DC voltage in the 20 volt range? It notes only Hz at 'logic level' that i can see mentioned in the DC range.On a side note; I am quite excited by all these more affordable meters that can measure down to 1 micro volt, including the Brymen's and the 121GW (when it actually gets released) they are excellent to use to measure higher amperage shunts (100A, 100mV) at high resolution.I've had a Uni-T UT70d for ages which has a 80mV range (80,000 count) and can measure down to 1 micro volt and the resolution has been very useful indeed although I can't really measure it's absolute accuracy. It's like most Uni-T meters - poor input protection, but has been fantastic in general.Just about to invest in the BM867s I think as a second opinion.

author: RedSky
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 07:04:23 am
content: For reference; I just got a Brymen 867s and the answer is yes, it can measure duty cycle / hz when measuring DC signals in the 20V range (and likely higher still). This was of course expected, it's just the unusual way it's described in the manual and being that the function works on the DC millivolt range that had me second guessing.Also of note. I have one of those cheap Chinese Voltage references that has an aged 584LH in circuit. When tested the Brymen 867s readings deviated by only 0.004% of the supposed Agilent 34401A desktop meter tested voltages. At best it was within 1 count 5 decimal places accurate to the reading. Very impressed.