My water cooled PC - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ndictu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 02:23:11 pm
content: Very nice build, although the cable management could be betterBut since you have water cooling the airflow isn't a big issue. Same with dust, recently I had to clean all the fans and heatsinks since I got to ~85 idle GPU and 50 idle CPU just from the dust building up.One question, since I've never built a water cooled PC myself, what coolant are you using? I would be a little worried with just distilled water in case I get a leak. Maybe some oil based coolant?

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 04:40:01 pm
content: I use de-ionized water + 10% rubbing alcohol. It's a lot less conductive and I've heard of spills where mobo and other components survived. As for cable management - I just replaced the waterblock and had to take entire board out of the PC, everything is disconnected.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 04:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: ndictu on July 17, 2011, 02:23:11 pmWater evaporates, oil doesn't, and would leave a hell of a mess, as well as possibly attacking seals on electrolytics.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 07:41:21 pm
content: If you want to use oil, just submerge the whole motherboard in a tank of mineral oil which is a very good insulator.http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.phpDistilled water should also make a pretty good insulator, until a leak forms and it mixes with salt deposits on the board. It's probably a good idea to invest in a leak detection system which will shut down the PC.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 08:44:37 pm
content: thats an interesting idea. although there was a mention that oil does not cool any better. submerging fans is not clever as they will just get over worked and fail

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 09:46:09 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 17, 2011, 08:44:37 pmThis was on the site.Won't the mineral oil put too much load on the fans, causing them to fail?Answer: Even if they did, it wouldn't matter. We left them running just because they were fun to look at, and to answer just this question! The answer is no -- after two years, the fans are spinning exactly like they did at the beginning. While it remains to be seen if they will burn out more quickly, they definitely have lasted these two years with zero loss of speed.I don't know if they are spouting BS or not so don't shoot the messenger!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 09:50:09 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 17, 2011, 08:44:37 pmYes, oil has a lower heat capacity than water but there's much more of it and it's in direct contact with all of the parts so I don't know if it's more or less effective than water.Quote from: Armin_Balija on July 17, 2011, 09:46:09 pmI wondered about the fans too but perhaps the motors get cooled more due to the oil and the inverters inside the brushless motors limit the current to a safe level?They seem to have lots of experiance and know what they're doing.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 10:19:22 pm
content: As someone who did a lot of watercooled PCs since 2003, I can tell you that oil cooling is wankery. It will destroy plastics, no matter how neutral it is, fans will burn out (when dirt gets mixed with the oil), god forbid you have a suspended metal particle like a solder ball or a broken screw thread, it will fuck everything up, the dust will mix in with the oil, upgrades will be a mess. A couple of guys did it, and the systems wasn't better off than a properly watercooled PC. The most insane overclock I've seen was an AMD running at 5.2 GHz with liquid nitrogen, and that was still problematic because of condensation.Water cooling is extremely efficient. You can mix in copper or silver nanoparticles if you have money, and boost the thermal conductivity big time.The only reason I do it is silence. I have to look at LEDs when monitor is off to see if it's on or off. It is literally dead quiet.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 10:48:46 pm
content: water cooled: is pump necessary?oil cooled: is fan necessary?for both: cant we just rely on nature mechanism, ie hot liquid will rise, replaced by cooler liquid from the top?

author: ndictu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2011, 11:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 17, 2011, 04:47:32 pmQuote from: Hero999 on July 17, 2011, 07:41:21 pmYeah oil is messy but that project Hero999 linked is why I though about it. It's probably impossible to clean but at least it won't make a short. Distilled water is not good because unless you can wipe everything of the components and seal the case it'll dissolve some stuff and become conductive.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 03:28:55 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on July 17, 2011, 10:48:46 pmYes we can do that, but there is a problem, the water needs help so to remain cool enough, and this demands more energy.I love computer modding and I playing with air cooling for more than 15 years.Its not that exotic as the water cooling, but at the end you have to worry for much less things that they can go wrong.http://two.xthost.info/kiriakost/html/pc_cooling_theory.html

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 08:45:00 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 18, 2011, 03:28:55 ama very BIG radiator, or smaller radiator with fan, just like the OP showed. now he's using double fold pump and fans. isnt that green?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 10:09:51 am
content: Few years back ZALMAN had present one large external tower,actually an huge water tank, so to serve as thermal exchange device.As I had said I am not fun of those, but you can Google about it.My current heatsink is the huge Prolimatech Armageddon with 14mm Prolimatech fan.Just came to me the idea to do some CPU burning, so to see how it responds with 30C room temp.I have lots of free heat this days in my location.On idle and my cores are jumping 45-55C

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 10:41:30 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 18, 2011, 10:09:51 amLol. Properly built system will not leak until the PC is obsolete. De-ionized water won't short anything. Use spring-loaded clamps and they will squeeze tubing around fittings more and more as the tubing ages and flattens - no leaks. As a practical solution, my PC doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and I can overclock to 4.2 GHz (gaining 60% speed bost) and have no long-term damage done to any of the components in the loop.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 02:10:35 pm
content: peltier FTW!

author: Semantics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 02:29:56 pm
content: For oil immersion, wouldn't the oil eventually wick up through the wires through capillary action?I've been considering water cooling for a while for the noise... not much of an overclocker as I've seen poorly assembled air cooled stock speed rigs that can't pass a Prime95 24-hour torture test, but the quality watercooling stuff seems way expensive.It would make sense, however, to mount the computer upside down so any leaks don't cause problems... sort of like how my fridge has that anti-frost heater. Also seems like a great place to plop down a leak detector.

author: ndictu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 03:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: Semantics on July 18, 2011, 02:29:56 pmIf you don't overclock a good heatsink+fan(+thermal compound) will give you low noise, no need to use water.I have one of those huge Noctua heatsinks (I think it is NH-U12P based on google images, I don't remember and probably don't have the packaging anymore.) that look like they are going to rip your CPU straight out of the motherboard, breaking the GPU in half on their way but I can't even hear it, all I hear are some case fans (no rubber on them so they vibrate the case a little).

author: Semantics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 05:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: ndictu on July 18, 2011, 03:18:23 pmWow, I don't know whether I should mount that to my CPU or slap tires on it and ride it through the desert.

author: ndictu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 07:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: Semantics on July 18, 2011, 05:29:07 pmYeah, when I took it out of the box I was little scared if it would even fit insideThere is about 1-2 cm clearance to the case and the RAM barely fits under.However, the mounting kit is very stable. You put a backpanel from the other side of the CPU socket and you can even secure it to the case itself (not sure but I think there were brackets for this. Unfortunately, my case didn't match). The heatsink then attaches by two very large screws with springs on them to dampen the vibrations.I cleaned it just a few weeks ago after about a year and I only needed to tighten each screw by a little bit so I have a lot of confidence in the thing now.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 09:04:50 pm
content: It wouldn't surprise me if heat pads connecting the thermal pad on the IC to a large heat sink like that are more effective than water or oil cooling.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 09:11:54 pm
content: Usually I was posting such pictures on the computer hardware forums.INTEL Quad Q6600But I wanted to find out what happens, in the hottest days of the Greek summer,that are between 14July - 15August .I have two major fans 120mm ( 1400 RPM) in the box with sensors, their own special sensor.And I have and another one Panasonic 120mm 4500RMP as input, working always at about 1500, with selectable speed the 4500RPM,if I turn the magic switch on.I did the test by keeping the Panasonic at the low 1500 as usual.And I got a rock solid 80C from about 55-60C Idle.Check the picture ..At the pictures below its my box, the Panasonic is on the clear window.Now I will run the same test with the Panasonic at full speed = Gaming mode for hot summer only.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 05:15:33 am
content: Just did my test and got from 80C down to 76C.Does not worth the extra noise.Not to say that I got those temperatures with special burn-in software.In the real world the system never gets that high, no matter what.

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 06:43:27 am
content: I do not bother with water cooling as I feel like it is a waste of money. Overclocking I feel like is fun but people all too often do not actually benefit from an overclock to 4.2 GHz imo. 3.2 is good enough for almost anything, with a fast frequency and timing on RAM and plenty of cores to work with, any project or work will be done in a fast enough time.I simply do not understand people who overclock for gaming though :/.I use air cooling.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 11:41:53 am
content: Quote from: Armin_Balija on July 19, 2011, 06:43:27 amTrust me, overclocking from 2.6 to 4.2 GHz makes A LOT of difference in new cpu-intensive games. Most new games run at 60 Hz main game loop, so when you have CPU lag and your rig runs 45 Hz, the gameplay is unbearably choppy, and getting a 30% faster CPU means you have to spend another $200-$500 and possibly a new mobo. Also, until you actually try watercooling for a year, you can't really judge it. Once you try it, you will never go back to noisy air-cooled PCs. A properly watercooled PC is DEAD SILENT. It does not matter how massive your CPU heatsink is and how low RPM is of your fan, you can still clearly tell if your PC is on or off because there is fan noise.Manufacturers of those stand-up CPU fans don't tell you that most chipsets are designed to be cooled with the airflow coming away from the CPU socket parallel to the board (look at any CPU stock fan design), those heatpipe-based coolers take that away and your chipset and active board components (mosfets, voltage regs, inductors) start baking adjacent capacitors. I have an IR imager and researched this in depth. I'll post IR pics later.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2011, 11:43:04 am
content: Quote from: Time on July 18, 2011, 02:10:35 pmCondensation dripping from the cold side during idle CPU on a moist day onto the board FTW!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2011, 05:29:54 pm
content: Peltier coolers are also much less efficient than traditional vapour compression coolers. Condensation can be eliminated by cooling the air inside the case.I don't see any point in active cooling unless the air is really hot <40oC but air conditioning is a better solution.