really naf soldering station - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: harps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 10:13:18 pm
content: helloI bought a soldering station today , as i was having trouble heating up pads connected to ground planes.this new one I bought is meant to get up to 450 degrees C ( definitely C not f) . so i whack it up all the way. as the reg i have is connected to a heatsink.I turn it on see the digital display go from 0 to 450 in about 30-40 seconds. so that seems to work o.k .i wet it in the sponge for a second or two. i fair bit of steam, the digital display still says 450 wow i think, very fast response.i then put it on a pad and nothing happens.so i test it on the sponge to see if there is any heat. not much steam at all, just a tiny "fisss" sound. i wait and put it back on the pad, nothing. i hold it for a while on the pad and it does not melt across the entire pad. darn, not enough heat.but it still says 450 degrees on the display. then i dab it on the sponge again to reduce the heat, now i am so unconfident with the display, i put the tip on my finger , its hot but not 450 degrees C!!!!dear god this thing is called 'precision gold' ( from maplin) , its an atten model with a rebranded sticker. ATTEN AT938D.the shop maplin does not like to give refunds , so i fear i need to do a demo all this in the shop to show how un-precise it is. and hope i get a refund.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 10:31:53 pm
content: In the UK, you have 14 or 28 days to return an item simply because you don't like it. No quibble, no fuss. As long as it is in the original condition...

author: harps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 10:47:09 pm
content: thanks tom : )Only problem is this is 'maplin' they reserve the right to send items back to their repair centre.if they do, they will turn it on, melt some solder on the tip , say it works and send it back to me. 4 weeks later. : /i'll just see if they understand tomorrow. fingers crossed. : )

author: TriodeTiger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 10:51:13 pm
content: Maybe it just takes a 60 seconds or so to reach full temperature? Putting it on the sponge may lower it quite a bite, and then instantly to the pad does not help. I'm sure you could work around its difficulties, it can't be worse than a $1.99 soldering pencil you find on eBay, really! ... Because mine works when its fully hot :-)

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:03:23 pm
content: Ok, a few things here. First, don't shock your tips that way (you'll find they won't last long). If you need to use a sponge, do so sparingly. Second, by 'soaking' it in the sponge, you allow the iron to dissipate just about all of its heat into the sponge - you'll need to wait until the iron builds temperature again. Now here is the challenge you're going to face. I would say that many top-dollar units have trouble with solder pools (ground planes) and particularly if they are Pb free. Consider adding heat from another source (2nd iron, hot air, pre-heat station, any combination of these).One last thing is remember to add lots of fresh flux AND solder to the part you're trying to rework. GL

author: harps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:18:55 pm
content: thanks.I was using the wet sponge to see if the digital display would recognise the drop in temp. but it didn't fluctuate. even when i put my finger on the tip it still read 450.do you think i should go with lead solder (is that what you mean by Pb)? is that softer and melts easier?maybe a wider chisel tip? i have a 1.6mm at present.i did put my board in the oven at 150 degrees it did help allot but it soon cooled down in my vice.i was thinking to upgrade the iron( if i get a refund) to a :http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330824285028?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649thanks again: )

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:20:26 pm
content: You do not have to say it is faulty! Just say you do not like it! You are covered for at least 14 days, most stores are 28!

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:31:55 pm
content: I have what appears to be the same soldering station but badged as Tenma and puchased through Farnell. I have so far been very happy with it and it does not suffer from the problems that you indicate. Possibly yours is faulty.In the past I have returned faulty products to Maplin and obtained a full refund without quibble. Do not accept an offer of them sending it back for repair, this may be ok for older equipment but for a fault discovered on the first day this just isn't acceptable.In response to Tom66 as far as I'm aware you don't have a legal right to change goods purcased in a shop just because you don't like them althougt most shops do exchange goods for that reason. However they do have a legal obligation to supply goods that are of merchantable quality and perform as advertised.Good luck.

author: Matje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:34:40 pm
content: Quote from: harps on December 05, 2012, 10:13:18 pmBeware, this doesn't say what you think it says. For stuff sinking heat the watts the soldering iron can put out is important, plus how good the temperature regulation actually is.If you are using lead solder you really shouldn't be cranking up the temperature like that either.Quote from: harps on December 05, 2012, 10:13:18 pmWell, that is what is expected. As already said by StubbornGreek - don't put it onto a wet sponge immediately before trying to solder. There is a kind of, hmm, I don't know the english words, a kind of metal shavings - wool? - made of brass or similar, much better for cleaning, easier on the tips too.And then - patience. It will take some time to heat up something with serious heat capacitance. Your station has 60 watts, mine only has 50 watts. Still, I can easily solder ground plane connections, actual small heat sinks that are fixed to the board by soldering thick pins to the ground plane, rather large shielding cans to ground strips, I even managed to open and solder shut again a crystal oscillator in a beefy metal can (that needed the help of a small propane torch though lest it would have taken ages... ;-).So, I don't see why your soldering station would not work, just give it a bit more time.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:36:37 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 05, 2012, 10:31:53 pmNo you don't, I'm afraid -- retailers aren't obliged to offer you a refund for no reason. The goods they've sold you must be fit for purpose, and as described, but everything else is at their discretion. In fact, you aren't even guaranteed a refund if the item is defective -- the retailer just has to make it good, which can be in the form of a repair or replacement.You may be thinking of the Distance Selling Regulations whichdogive you the right to return goods for a refund for no reason whatsoever, within seven days of the date of delivery. These don't apply to purchases from shops, though, only mail/telephone/internet orders.The gory details are set out quite well inthis article from moneysavingexpert.com, or at least they were last time I looked.In this case the iron may indeed not be fit for purpose, or broken, but I think the OP will have to demonstrate that a bit more convincingly as it sounds like pretty normal behaviour to me; the store staff might just swap it for another one in the first instance, or they might test it out and demonstrate that it works fine when used in a different fashion or for a different job. At that point you're basically relying on goodwill and the store's concern over their customer service, which for Maplin can be a bit of a pot-luck affair

author: harps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 12:05:44 am
content: hifor example:I have heatsinks on my board I would like to get them off, but I can not melt the solder on tabs/joints hot enough to liquidise and suck the solder off with the air gun it just mushes it around and does not get hot. it just does not melt the heatsink is too efficient . I am holding it for a very long time.not keen on heating up the whole board in the oven although it helped to re-flow the regulators. Two soldering irons and using a sucker gun at the same time isn’t possible for me.i really need more power and faster regulation at the tip! 70- 100wat?if maplin say no, i'll offer a restocking fee.besides,i did not use the tip they provided, i used a chisel tip i bought separately.so it is unused really , just tested.thanks guys you rule. : )

author: harps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 12:15:18 am
content: just had an idea, how would I test the actual wattage of this unit.I can access the socket by taking off the iron, and I have a multimeter. : p

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 03:01:41 am
content: QuoteYou need a much much MUCH bigger tip than 1.6mm to solder anything to big ground planes and/or heatsinks.Thiswiththison the end of it will be more than adequate for most purposes.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 06:51:33 am
content: As others have said -- for working with large pads you need *HEAT*, not just temperature.The 450 deg figure on the display is probably just a target figure -- not the actual temperature so don't expect it to change in relation to the tip at all (unless I'm wrong and it *is* faulty -- quite possible).But forget temperature, look for an iron that has sufficient wattage to accomplish your task.In my shop I have my Hakko 888 for most work but I also have a 100W (cheapie from the hardware store) iron specifically for those "big" jobs.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 08:31:17 am
content: Yeah, i've got a few decent soldering stations but often you just need something bigger... I've got a hardware store 140w job, it's good for tinning very very fat cables (where you may use a blowtorch) and heatsinks... anything else though it will destroy.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 11:39:50 am
content: Rule 1 of trying to desolder a big heatsink ... : CHANGE YOUR TIP!

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 04:07:47 pm
content: I have got a Weller 100 watt just for things like heat sinks and large ground planes as the 50 watt temperature controlled iron I have very often simply cannot put out enough heat for such jobs. The problem with the Weller is heating time is so long, a few days ago I needed to use so I turned it on and went to put the kettle on when I came back the iron was glowing a dull cherry red in the dark as I had turned the lights of when I left the room. For some jobs you just have to have the brute power of a larger iron.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 04:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: harps on December 05, 2012, 11:18:55 pm1) Lead solder is the only way to fly.2) Always a wider tip - even for normal soldering, you can pretty much count on almost never using those pin-point tips. The goal is to transfer as much heat as possible as quickly as possible and not damage the component from prolonged heating (which is what happens with smaller tips).3) Preheating in an oven (btw, 150c isn't enough usually) and removing it to work on the board does not help much at all - the board will dissipate heat as soon as its removed from the oven (and quickly). Unless you're working right on top of a heat source this method doesn't work - if you don't have a pre-heater, I've seen folks use old electric griddles.Also, you're station is probably just displaying the set temperature not the actual (I'm just guessing here as I've not played with that station).

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 04:37:10 pm
content: QuoteCan you supply a reference because I don't think that's correct.If you buy something online the Distance Selling Regulations(2000) apply. These do, indeed, give you the right to return it within 7 working days of receipt for any reason unless whoever you bought it from wasn't clued up enough to tell you your rights in which case it can be up to three months. You only have a duty to "reasonable care" of the goods.If you buy something which is faulty, not as described or not fit for purpose the main legislation is the Sales of Goods Act. This has more flexible and less rigidly defined timescales but for consumer goods, in practice, gives you the right of refund or replacement with new for up to 6 months from purchase and repair thereafter. Goods are expected to be "durable" which for electronic goods has been defined as up to 6 years - of course it gets increasingly difficult to prove that a fault was due to manufacturing or design problems and not fair (or unfair) wear and tear but the main point is that there isn't a fixed end point so "sorry your flume prognosticator failed 1 day outside the 12 month warranty" doesn't wash.Many retailers operate a returns policy of 14 or 28 days but that's just good customer relations; they often do require that the goods are unopened/unused etc.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2012, 05:08:00 pm
content: QuoteSo 450+ °C, possibly this is as much the reason as the power rating - I have a 40W Weller that I use for the bigger jobs and it always seems to do better than the temperature controlled irons despite being "officially" lower powered. It's massive and takes several minutes to heat up - thermal inertia wins the day