Suggestions for MAGNIFIERS - types & magnification for soldering small SMD's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SDMF74
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 03:06:35 pm
content: Hi, my first post here. Im repairing a 55" LG LED TV & since they didnt have my power supply board in stock I bought a repair kit which consists of 10 IC's, fuses, smd's etc. that they say are common failing parts for that model PS board. I managed to remove & resolder 7 out of 10 without any issues but the remaining parts are very small & although my eyesight is good I didnt want to risk soldering the last few parts without some type of magnification.I have only repaired a few devices so I dont have alot of experience soldering, mostly just through hole, led's & laptop AC plug etc. but everything has been pretty easy so far. Most difficult part is desoldering through hole parts as those manual solder suckers dont work very well & are pretty weak (at least the cheap one I have is).Anyway I have a very small 8 pin SMD that is like 7mm x5mm and a similar 16 pin one that require magnification. I was hoping you guys could give me some recomendations. Im not sure if I should get a desk lamp magnifier that clamps to my table, a headband magnifier headset or something else? I was looking at a TOMLOV or ADONSTAR microscope w/ a small 7"-10" led screen but wasnt sure how easy it is to solder on a relatively large PCB w/ those or if they are mainly used for Inspection after the PCB is soldered? Also not sure if I can afford the $170-$230 on a microscope since I probably wont use it all that often (although the extra magnification would be nice).For wearable or desk options how strong of magnification will I need? I noticed alot of the headsets only come with 2.5x - 3.5x at most, will this be enough to solder such small parts?Please give me some info and suggestions, I live in the USA & have amazon prime so if you guys own or know of any specific products please share? Doesnt have to sold by amazon if you know of some higher quality items sold direct from manufacturer or other seller. THANKS!

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 05:04:42 pm
content: I bought this:https://www.newegg.com/p/0X6-04T4-000Y5?Item=9SIAB15C981905I haven't gotten it yet but my order was based on recommendations. It should arrive this week, as it's been tracked to my area as of today.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 12:08:16 am
content: I use one of these hand-held magnifiers, with builtin led lighting.https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/203775276976It's enough to do 0.5mm qfp and qfn packages. I have other more expensive loupes with better lenses, but lack of built-in illumination makes them less flexible and easy to use.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 12:22:28 am
content: I like the optical binocular inspection microscope much more. The magnifiers are not that good. Buy a binocular optical microscope, or a trinocular simulfocal if you want to film or take photos, too. Second hand optical microscopes are usually as good as new and cheaper.The best are the Mantis type microscopes, they let you look "around" the PCB without tilting the board.For soldering, magnification 10x is a little too much, everything more will only catch a too smaller area to work comfortably. Anything lower will be OK. Depending on your eyesight, a 6x, or 3x is just fine for soldering.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 05:09:21 am
content: I received the digital microscope today. It works well but a bit too much magnification. The stand won't let me adjust it high enough to reduce the mag, It works with the computer as well and has a remote control for some functions. I have been able to save a view to the hard drive. I just tried to upload the pic but can't find it.Perhaps I can cobble up a setup to increase the working distance so that I can get a wider field of view. It's a nice unit.Okay I found the file. It's a pic of a small plastic container of dental floss. The other one is a circuit board. Somewhat too much magnification, I think.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 05:44:03 am
content: I really like this one:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C75IVM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1I use these 10X ocular lenses for increased eyepoint distance.https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-EP10X30E-Extreme-Widefield-Eyepieces/dp/B005OMK2JIPros:Surprisingly excellent optics.Large working distance (9") for soldering iron maneuverability.Minimal bench space. Even smaller when not in use, since the objective head folds back over the base for a very small footprint.Cons:No zoom.Can swing left and right but limited by small base that causes it to want to tip over if it swings too far. Really need to move the PCB under the microscope rather than swinging the microscope over the PCB.No camera port.

author: SDMF74
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 05:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 05, 2022, 12:22:28 amAny examples of good binocular inspection microscopes? Im really not trying to spend more than $150-$250 at most. When you said that "The magnifiers are not that good" Were you referring to the headband Optivisors?Quote from: JDubU on April 05, 2022, 05:44:03 amThats the AmScope SE400-Z Its funny cause thats one that Im considering, @Rogeorge said that "10x is a little too much" This Amscope states it comes with 10x & 20x eyepieces but I assume it can do like 2x, 3x or smaller magnifications just fine also? (Sorry I have no experience & know absolutely nothing about microscopes). So if I bought this Amscope I wouldnt need to buy any extra lenses or anything to do the soldering job Im doing? Maybe down the road I could buy some upgrades, better eyepieces etc. but this is already at my max budget as is. Its $235, I think it used to be $175 someone said but that was before Bidenflation.It is kind of unfortunate it doesnt have any camera capabilities, although not a dealbreaker it would be kind of nice.So I think I have narrowed it down to these 3 devices from most expensive to least:- AMSCOPE SE400-Z Professional Binocular Stereo Microscope W/ WF10x and WF20x Eyepieces, 10X and 20X Magnification ($236)https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C75IVM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1- TOMLOV DM201 7 inch HDMI Digital Microscope W/ Extension Tube Included 16MP Coin Microscope, Video Soldering Microscope ($170)https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SGJMHS8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A5TYH52RL8WAQ&th=1I really like this model cause it comes with the extension tube (I assume the extension tube makes it so you can have plenty of room for your soldering iron, hopefully it will still focus good at that far of a disatance though.) Also I like the fact thatthis model can tilt backwards also making it easier to have room for soldering & can hook up a larger monitor at the same time.- DONEGAN DA-5 OptiVisor Headband Magnifier, 2.5x Magnification, 8" Focal Length ($91)https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015IN8J6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=A3NUNNXXHUJDMF&th=1These visors look high quality & have glass lenses but Im not sure if this is the right magnification & focal length. The other drawback to this is by the time I purchase the add-on LED light & the monacle which gives an extra 2.5x magnificationIts gonna cost like $91. Also if I decide I need a different magnification the lenses are sold seperately & are expensive. For $91 I might as well spend the litttle extra and buy one of the first two microscopes.Sorry bout the above links, dont know to do hyperlinks or they arent working. Its so much easier on OCN just click the button & paste the url in the box that pops up

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 06:12:28 pm
content: Quote from: SDMF74 on April 05, 2022, 05:29:12 pmI've tried many desk magnifier and head magnifiers. Desk ones were the worst. Often I use head magnifiers, too, aside from the microscope, but no matter which magnifier I tried, headband or desk, they are very far behind from an inspection microscope, IMO.I've bought my microscope at about $100-150 don't recall exactly. It was a second hand and has no name or model on it. The light is a simple household led lamp in the shape of a ring, from a generic LIDL supermarket. Mine included a DIY boom arm when I bought it, but I give up on the boom-arm. It was too heavy and taking too much space on the desk, now I'm just using the microscope on its normal stand.As long as you find a real binocularinspection microscope, with metal body and glass lens, it's probably good enough no matter the model. You will never need a 20x eyepiece IMO, not for electronics. Even 10x is too much. If all you can find is 10x then you can add a 0.5x Barlow lens in front of the objective (many inspection microscopes have a fine screw to add extra lens or polariser in front of optics).A 0.5x Barlow lens will also double the working distance under the microscope, which is usually a nice to have when soldering. 2x distance is still OK, but if you go with more than that, you will probably end with a too higher ocular while sitting at a normal desk+chair.I can not tell what to buy. Amscope are usually very good, they have a myriad of models.TBH, none of the ones you listed appeals me. Item one looks overpriced, 2 and 3 are rather toys when compared to an optical inspection microscope. Beware the ones with a camera, most of them have such a big video lag that you can not solder in real time, they are good only for inspecting finished items. Also they use to have low FPS cameras and wiggling stand.Buy whatever is available where you live (they are heavy, so the transport fee can cost a lot when buying them from abroad). All brands are pretty much the same. AFAIK any branded microscope nowadays is nothing but rebranded generic microscopes made in China or India. Both India and China are very good, they produce stellar quality optics.

author: SDMF74
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 08:47:39 pm
content: THANKS, although you didnt give me any examples you provided some very good info. Ill keep looking but Im gonna need something soon. As far as the Tomlov digital microscope Im pretty sure they tested the latency in one of the videos I watched & it didnt have any percieveable delay. With the Inspection microscope It doesnt look like im gonna be able to find one at a reasonable price but I may look around for one used as you suggested, still not sure what to look out for with optics when it comes to those though.Are you saying basically it doesnt matter, I can just use a Barlow .5x & that will work with just about any inspection microscope like the 10x 20x one I linked?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 10:41:12 pm
content: I don't know if the model you pick has a Barlow lens adapter, probably not (the Barlow lens I know are round, while the objective cover of that Amazon linked microscope is square). You should ask the vendor, or check with the manufacturer.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2022, 11:03:03 pm
content: Offering advice on this can be tricky because the ultimate solution is very personal - something one person loves, another will find unusable. Having said that...I used to use the aforementionedAMSCOPE SE400-Z(but branded by someone else). It's very capable but suffers from two problems: lack of zoom and not much lateral space under the lens (OK for small board, not so hot when they get bigger.I splashed on something very close to theTOMLOV DM201 7 inch HDMI Digital Microscopebut found it pretty dreadful for soldering - lack of depth perception, small area for PCB and limited FoV. Mostly the depth perception though, I think. Having said that, I note that some Youtube repair bods use HDMI video and have got used to the monocular view, so perhaps if you start with video you won't have a problem.I have the headband stuff, but the optivisor style andglasses styleand neither do it for me due to the need to basically put your nose on the PCB to be in focus. The glasses I used for some inspection, the optivisor never for anything. YMMV - I was given someone's optivisor when they retired, and they'd used it a lot.Currently I use an Amscope-style zoomable trinocular on an articulated arm. It is great for soldering SMD parts and a camera on the video port lets me take photos - the intention was to use that to save looking down the lens all the time, but nothing beats binocular visionBut... for other stuff (i.e. not SMD) I use aLuxo Wave illuminated magnifierwhich I picked up cheap on Ebay. That's mostly because I need glasses for closeup stuff nowadays, but if you don't then something like this might be OK for the larger SMD bits - I just used it to replace a couple of tiny switches in a garage opener, for instance. Luxo is a luxury brand and much cheaper similar magnifiers are available.One thing to bear in mind is that if you need to do soldering under whatever you get (as opposed to just inspection) then the working distance is important. No good having an excellent view if you can't get your soldering iron under there. The Luxo has a decent working distance but the lens is wide (the much smaller magnifiers are pants since the usable area is just a tiny circle in the middle if you're lucky, or you need to close one eye if you're not). You might need to angle your iron to get it to fit under there. Same applies with the microscopes, but the Amscope you selected is narrow and has a reasonable working distance, so it's rarely an issue. With the zoomable ones (at least, those with a tube-style business end) you can fit a Barlow lens to reduce the magnification and bump up the working distance.QuoteSince I motorised desoldering guns I've not used a solder sucker for anything. If you do a lot of desoldering I'd recommend one - it is much less work and leads to much less damage than the manual sucker.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 04:40:39 am
content: I could use suggestions on how to reduce the magnification of this one I bought.https://www.newegg.com/p/0X6-04T4-000Y5?Item=9SIAB15C981905It's otherwise pretty good, and not that expensive.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 10:06:50 am
content: I don't think you can, Bob. The usual method is to shove a x0.5 Barlow on the end, but there doesn't look to be a way to fit one. In doing so you increase the working height, and it's possible you'd run out of adjustment.One thing you could try is to remove it from the stand so you can raise it higher. The field of view will increase as you move the lens away from the target, but at some point the focus adjustment will run out. You'd need to make a new stand (or somehow arrange for the base of that one to not get in the way).

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 11:03:05 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on April 08, 2022, 11:03:03 pmI'd be a bit more careful with such a statement.the way I understand it, there are a lot of small factories in China, and they may even buy the same castings from the same factory as amscope does, but lenses and other parts may be sourced elsewhere and vary in quality and the workmanship with which it's all put together may vary too.I have also bought such an stereo microscope and I like it a lot.The microscope head is quite good, and I bought it with the cheapest option as a stand. "Just to get started".If you are a bit handy, I recommend to only buy the microscope head and make the rest yourself.I never got around to actually doing it, but my ideal microscope stand would have a few stepper motors and potentiometers.One stepper motor would adjust the height, while the other would be attached to the zoom knob.This way you can adjust both the zoom, focus and amount of light in the right proportions while changing the zoom.Another potentiometer would just be for the height to adjust for the height of the thing you're looking at.There are a bunch of reasons that come together and make this a viable project.* The microscope frame and feet is relatively expensive to the separate head, which is quite cheap actually.* Those frames are not of the best quality,* MGN15 rails and carriages are quite cheap, and it's easy to make something with it.* Adjusting height, zoom & light with a single knob is an quite nice option to have.Soldering though a single lens / LCD screen is not for me. Some people can get used to it, but I really miss the depth of field.A single camera is quite usable for inspection though.I do not care much for those LCD screens, as I already have a 107cm 4K monitor in my soldering corner.Combining that with a decent camera and "machine vision" zoom lens is a nice extra to have, and such a solution would not have to cost more than EUR60.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 11:30:36 am
content: for me a microscope camera with HDMI output (usb is slow for soldering) works great, it gives me approx 40cm clearance.i have the cammera connected to a usb3 capture device , so displaying the output on my computer's monitor (but you can have a dedicated monitor too) - picture attachedcamera is an Andonstar ADSM201 (stand is upside down clamped to a shelf above the table)

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 12:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on April 09, 2022, 04:40:39 amheight is the answer, higher stand and you'll get less magnification and wider field of view. you're welcomesee my post above i'm using a similar camera.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 02:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on April 08, 2022, 11:03:03 pmI solved this issue by putting my SE400-Z on top of a monitor riser, similar to this one:https://www.amazon.com/KINLINK-Monitor-Computer-Adjustable-Desktop/dp/B08ZN8TXTS/ref=sr_1_52?keywords=Monitor+Riser&qid=1649513983&sr=8-52It allows large PCB's to be moved around under the lens. Of course, that makes the microscope eyepieces that much higher above the bench, so that means either a lower bench, or a higher chair. With a normal height bench, I use an adjustable height, shop stool that rotates and is on casters. Works for me.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 03:02:51 pm
content: For me, the lack of zoom on the SE400-Z mostly impacts my ability to initially locate the field of view onto the desired PCB target. This can be alleviated by using the SE400-Z's goose neck mounted spotlight to mark the field of view. Move the desired target under the illuminated spot and then do final adjustments while looking through the eyepieces.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 03:14:35 pm
content: QuoteThat's a good view!Mine is a KKMoon branded Andonstar - did you need to do anything besides invert the fixing?

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 05:06:05 pm
content: dunkemhigh, I tried those things you suggest. I can raise the unit and still not run out of focus adjustment but then the screen is above my head. I can use a computer to display it but that starts to load up the bench space.So the bottom line is probably that I threw away my money in buying something that is cumbersome to use, at best. If I could find a barlow lens and cobble it on the objective it might help.Too bad; otherwise it's a cool unit.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 08:36:27 pm
content: QuoteCould have been worse. On the bright side it helps you realise what you really want/need in the next one, and you can always sell it on

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 08:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on April 09, 2022, 03:14:35 pmnothing else, just inverted the mount. the focus wheel has enough range for that height. and the magnification when using a 24 or 27inch monitor is just right from that height.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2022, 11:52:49 pm
content: I took some of the helpful advice and mounted the microscope upside down, clamped to the workbench overhead. It's much better, albeit not as good as I'd like. For instance, my little arduino black pill board is too large for the field of view. But the angle is good and there is plenty of clearance for hands and tools. And I probably won't need a computer monitor. A bonus is that the goose neck LEDs are still useful. The magnification now is just about 2x, perfect!When I actually try to use this system I will know better whether it's going to work. And as someone said, I could sell it off when I find something better.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2022, 09:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: evb149 on April 10, 2022, 08:40:27 pmUSB cabling is the smallest problem with usbthe problem is video compression... all those microscope cameras are using some kind of compression when using USB and obviously you need some buffer full of frames to run the compression against - which means they have a ugly delay which makes it unusable for work, forget soldering or probing under a USB scope. USB is only good for "static" image - e.g. inspection work.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2022, 02:39:43 am
content: I have not tried to use USB on my unit yet. However, I am not counting on it; what I will do is use the memory card (when it arrives in a couple of months) in case I want a permanent record.The nice thing about this setup is that it uses no stage; the entire workbench allows as much as I want in the way of tools and clearance and device under test. The 2x magnification is nearly optimum. I am looking forward to a practical test to see how I like it, although I am optimistic.