Choosing a multimeter - decisions.... decisions.... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 11:58:42 pm
content: Hi guys,first post here but a few topics I read were really informative and then there was this video from David which was just, well.... fun lolhttps://youtu.be/gh1n_ELmpFIhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-between-fluke-179177-vs-keysight-u1242c-vs-fluke-87v/?allSo basically it's as the topic says....I think the biggest issue that I'm having is which brand / model / price point should I even be looking at.It's really crazy but I haven't used any form of electrical/electronic test equipment since my uni days now 20 or so years agoBack then we had had a few simple benchtop meters but most of the stuff we did relied on using CRO's.... yep the old Ray Tubes- actually we had a newer Techtronix LCD scope too but we had to share that one out. We also got to play with HP Spectrum Analyzers which were awesome and I still have images of that to this day. It was a big beast with Ray Tube and dot matrix printer attached... I loved it!!Reminiscing aside, I'm trying to find a decent multimeter. After my uni days I switched over to computer server and enterprise network stuff so that's why I've been out of touch for eons.Really what prompted this was a few years we renovated our house so the aspiring engineer and kid in me decided to redesign the building electrical layout and add some form of intelligence to the place. Well.. it ended up with a 200 page manual and me having to teach the certified electrician about electro physics 101 lol- he was crying as he didn't understand anything and especially as I went and grabbed a whole bunch of industrial components and enclosures to rig up what ended up being a 6ft / 2 meter high electrical distribution/automation panel that virtually now runs the whole houseAnyway, designing and building the whole thing was a lot of fun but now when it comes down to testing things, without a DMM I am both blind and deaf figuratively speaking of course.It definitely would have helped somewhat during my Pine64 project which clocks the house to NTP via GPS and was basically a crapshoot trying to get the RS232 signal down to UART based TTL levels. I ended up going through multiple converter boards till I got the system to behave properly. Having a scope would have definitely been a benefit here!!Here is that project by the way:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q1wduvvc1ci2aly/AADMHIIauoIPVNXNoC9BLX-ja?dl=0Ramblings and musing over history aside, what I'm looking for is a high quality DMM that will be an 'all rounder'.... good for Low Voltage (as in not 3-phase or KV levels in power generation) mains measurements so at the minimum CAT III compliant and ULV (ultra low voltage) AC/DC stuff. Mainly DC though at levels of around 5,12,24V.Not sure if I need anything more sophisticated then the basic measurements of voltage, current and resistance, though continuity is a must - a 9V battery and bulb that they use to teach kids how electricity works is as David would say "a PITA".I can definitely say that it's not worth me paying for high end features that I'm not gona use, though at this stage I'm not really sure what I will use. From what I have read and David explained in the video, the Sample and Hold function is pretty useful and it seems that Fluke have the best version of this feature.The models that lead me here were the following:* Keysight U1233A* Fluke 11x series* Greenlee DM-860AOf course the Fluke 87V is highly praised by many people as a great all-rounder and it might just be the one to go for, but my question is really do I need it??I know Greenlee products well as I own several tools from them for network cabling and testing and I really like them. On the other hand the DMM I mentioned is 1KV CAT II but does have the HBC fuses mentioned in David's video.Another option which was mentioned in the forum thread I posted above was the Bryman VM869s which is CAT IV rated for 1KV and seems to be a favorite among many, though others say Fluke 87V.There are so many brands and so many models it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack right now.I would really appreciate any ones input on which direction to go in here....I guess my preference would be something solid and built well over features that at this stage I won't use however attractive the looks and display of the meter are lol <- I mean the Fluke 287 and 289 are really gorgeous but I probably won't ever need the data logging functionsEqually I like the looks of the Keysight U1250 models but they are probably way overkill for what I needThanks in advance

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 12:03:26 am
content: Hi and welcome to the forum...Lots of text but the main thing you seem to have somehow forgotten:QuoteAnd what are your needs ?

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 12:15:28 am
content: Hi, thank you for the response... sorry if I wasn't clear... I thought I did say??Basically I want something to be able to measure voltage, current, resistance, and continuity with; hence DMM.The voltage rating should be able to work at mains AC levels as well as lower voltage levels at DC.That's basically it. Mainly the most use will probably be to identify volt drops in wiring and finding out if there is a closed or open circuit between connections.Forgive me if I'm not explaining very well... I tend to get brainlocked easilyIf there is still something I am leaving out or more specific information that I need to provide but am not, please let me know

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 12:19:33 am
content: Don't expect to find a combination of a good electronics DMM and a good mains DMM. For electronics a good option is to get a cheap 4.5 digits bench DMM like the Vici VC8145. No more changing batteries and you can put it in a stack with other equipment that is stationary on your bench. I have a 6.5 digit Keysight DMM as well but the VC8145 is my daily driver DMM; it is just more convenient to use.For mains work, buy something simple from Fluke, Tektronix, Hioki or Keysight; a brand that you can trust to back the safety ratings.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 12:22:31 am
content: I also welcome you to the forum!Quote from: kayasaman on November 12, 2022, 11:58:42 pmOh - you SO belong here!!!!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 12:26:17 am
content: Hi,QuoteTo be honest, this is not "user-friendly"...It´s up to you to define what YOU want to do with it and in which ranges, how accurate it should be and how much you are willing to spend for.What you said before, nearly ALL Meters on the planet can do this...

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:04:52 am
content: QuoteI really apologies for being so vague, I feel so tongue tied right now and just can't seem to explain anything well at allIt's probably like @nctnico suggested, that I should get a basic or entry level meter but one of high quality. As I explained previously, I haven't used any form of electrical or electronics test equipment for around 20 years now so am pretty out of sync with everything....Maybe it is just worth looking at the Fluke 113 or Keysight U1233AThis is the type of stuff am doing right now:Mainly it's mostly testing cables and voltages with these things.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:14:51 am
content: It doesn't sound like money is a major concern, so I suspect like me you might be much happier with at least a few DMMs eventually to cover all the bases. Some of my all-time favorite DMMs are drastically different, so here is my short list of must-haves for me personally:- Brymen BM27s Pocket Multimeter (also found under other brandings): Just an amazing product given the size, has auto-check, NCV detection.https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM27s-Pocket-Multimeter- EEVblog 121GW: despite some minor gripes and some love/hate from forum members, this is really an impressive, feature-packed DMM. A recent hack to change the mode memory behavior is pretty cool.https://www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/- 34401A (various generations): Still a popular choice, get an older one in good condition for stability and have it calibrated and obtain the calibration data to better know what is what. (not sure what store might be best for your country)Of course those are my favorites, but having something along the lines of each of those three is really going to be handy.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:31:54 am
content: Some quick comments on the DMMs mentioned that I have personally:- Keysight U1233A: slightly interesting product, adjustable voltage detection is pretty good, display backlight and flashlight are rough IMHO, has a major flaw in that it absolutely cannot display 600uA to 1mA DC or 600uA to 300mA AC.- Fluke 87V: good, reliable, safe, gets the job done at the end of the day, not my first choice for electronics, but could be a reasonable option for electrical stuff and does work for electronics if needed.You will want to get a current clamp of some sort, either a stand-alone clamp that can connect to your DMMs or a clamp meter. Some to check out:- Amprobe AMP-25: compact clamp meter, no leads- Amprobe AMP-330: bigger, fully-featured clamp/DMM- Brymen BM-037: small, fully functional clamp/DMM- Fluke 771: get this used, awesome for very low-current DC

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:36:34 am
content: Quote from: J-R on November 13, 2022, 01:31:54 amMaybe a U1242 is a better choice. I choose this to be my one and only portable DMM. I like my DMMs to have at least 4.5 digits.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:45:28 am
content: Quote from: J-R on November 13, 2022, 01:14:51 amYou're probably right there....I mean yeah sure I am pretty poor at explaining things and my needs in general (unfortunately it is a legitimate medical condition) and had so much difficulty when trying to even choose a camera to pursue my hobby in photography. Eventually I ended up with 2 different systems, so I guess it's gona be the same for the DMM.In that there's no one size fits all option....It seems that many people really like the Brymen BM869s:http://www.brymen.com/PD02BM860s_869s.htmlI have checked pricing and it's actually quite reasonable at only around $200Actually having just checked the pocket BM27s, not only is it cute but it might even work out as a good tester once I build up my astrophotography rig which will basically be lots of 12V connections. Not sure if I'll build another Pine64 SBC yet for that purpose (as in Astro imaging controller, with custom LCD display) but even having a decent meter like the 869s will make trouble shooting so much easierRight now it's kinda hard to figure out which meter will be the best to start with.... that's a challenge in on to itselfQuote from: J-R on November 13, 2022, 01:31:54 amHmm.... you might have a good point here too...In the main DIN panel that I am using for my switchboard, I'm actually using Carlo Gavazzi energy meters per circuit, they are the single module version of this one:https://www.gavazzionline.com/pdf/EM112DS.pdfI'm then logging that information via ModBUS protocol to again a Carlo data logger then bring up the readings in my building control software.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:47:07 am
content: Concerning the last post of the OP, 4.5 digits wasn´t really interesting...At work we got for "general purposes" the fluke 115/117 meter.It´s robust, it got the known fluke quality and I think, it´s more than enough to fulfil his needs.Easy to use...Not so expensive...Could be the right choice.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:50:15 am
content: The advantage of having 4.5 digits is that you can still read mA fluctuations using the 10A current range. And since the 10A range typically is unfused (or has a >10 fuse), you don't run the risk of blowing a fuse unlike on the lower current ranges.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:05:26 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 13, 2022, 01:47:07 amJust going through the Fluke 117 specs now:https://www.fluke.com/en-gb/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-117Actually this might work out well? It has an 11A fuse and 400 hour battery life. It also uses a 9V battery which is the same as my Greenlee network test equipment so that's a little bonus.@Martin72 from the images this little guy looks quite compact. Is it actually on the small side or are the pictures deceiving? If it is small it may be a good thing from a practicality point of view too.....If everyone wants to have a nice giggle, I dug these images out from my storage archives. You can see what stuff I was playing around with way back when haha

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:05:40 am
content: Also look at the Brymen BM78X series (also available in the blue EEVblog version), I think it hits all your requirements.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:08:54 am
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 13, 2022, 02:05:26 amAll very nice kit for the time.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:23:40 am
content: First up to everyone, thank you so much for all the help and interaction. I really appreciate it!Quote from: BillyO on November 13, 2022, 02:05:40 amJust checked it and it looks pretty coolhttp://www.brymen.com/images/ProductsList/BM780_List/BM789/BM789_A4.pdfPrice seems to be a bargain compared to Flukea mere $150 when compared to around $600 for the Fluke 87VQuote from: BillyO on November 13, 2022, 02:08:54 amAs a student I learned a lot and spent so much time in the lab they had a hard time removing me as I never wanted to leave.I guess @Brumby was probably correct in his statementBottom line I guess as with everything is that if you enjoy something, either as a hobby or professionally then it's the right thing for you.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:50:53 am
content: QuoteIt is small, I can take a pic on monday from it in relation of other meters when I´m at work.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 03:21:23 am
content: See if you can find the Fluke 15B+ or 17B+ at a price you're happy with:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003962107431.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.376a4cabT6RXUE&algo_pvid=6f84f5fa-37dc-4bed-930b-112caba11771&algo_exp_id=6f84f5fa-37dc-4bed-930b-112caba11771-1&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000027578239741%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21114.73%2176.87%21%21%21%21%21%402101e9d516676397507262717eee86%2112000027578239741%21sea&curPageLogUid=8rVLhmg5D7TpExcellent basic DMM's that have the basic necessities for electronics, use just 2x AA's, last for decades and won't let you down.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 03:44:21 am
content: Is True RMS a necessity? If not then the Fluke 17B+ or the new interaction as 17B Max fits your needs of a reliable, cheap and feature packed DMM.Problem is it is a exclusive China only Sale, with warranty also only valid in China.But it is easy to import it from eBay and Aliexpress.If you can't just sent me a PM and I get one and sent to you (I'm currently living in Mainland China, Shenzhen).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 03:51:34 am
content: Good suggestions around.In addition to them, the BM857/BM867 are a great all around meter for about $150 (plus shipping from tme.eu) that can serve very well for the mixed electrical/electronics environment.If you like Greenlee and their lifetime warranty, the DM-510A is a great choice - it is a rebrand of the Brymen BM257A that is also quite favoured here. I have its simpler brother DM-200A and it is a very solid meter. The Greenlee warranty puts it at the same price level as the aforementioned Brymens BM786, BM857 and BM867.It doesn't seem to be what you are looking for but there are cheaper options from China that have less robustness and protection that are suitable for electronics and the occasional household electric work (compact Richmeters RM113D, high count Aneng AN870, featured Uni-T UT61E, mechanically robust UT139C, UT89X and UT191E)Good luck with your choice!

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 04:19:56 am
content: you have Amprobe am140 i think or the 160 at 50,000 count with the "500k counts on some modes" who use the same chipset than the Brymens 859 - 869love the fact you don't have to dismantle the meter when the fuse blows up, you had some Mastech too 22,000 counts

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 09:01:28 am
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 12, 2022, 11:58:42 pmThe Greenlee 860Aisa Brymen BM869s but rebranded by Greenlee. It's the meter that does everything and has higher safety rating than any Fluke. Do you need all the features? Probably not.The Keysights seem gimmicky and not very robust, I don't think I'd every buy one. Here's our joe wearing out the switch on a U1282a:Every Fluke below the 87V is "specialized" (ie. missing some important feature) so you always end up buying the 87V if you want an all-rounder. The 87V isn't good value for money compared to Brymens. eg. The Fluke 113 is great for electrician work but almost useless for small electronics.The brand you should be looking at for best bang:buck is Brymen. For "simple" I'd recommend aBM857s, it's what I own, it's square, it's industrial, and I'd get another one in a heartbeat if mine ever breaks (which I'm not expecting).Lastly: Don't feel guilty about not having every last possible feature in your meter (aka "it's only $25 more..." syndrome). If you're not using those features then it's just more button pressing to get to the features you actually use.You can get Brymen online at brymen.eu at welectron.com

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 09:39:00 am
content: In my opinion, the stuff the OP wants to do, is:- Lots of working on electronics projects with emphasis on the 5V-24V range- sometimes working in environments with about 230VAC and the need of appropriate CAT ratingIn this regard, the featureset should be tailored towards the electronics use- upon a certain quality (and price tag) of a DMM the CAT rating will come by itself and being able to measure 230VAC and similar stuff is basic features of any DMM. For Amps measurement a clamp meter or a clam as accessoire to the DMM is a welcome addition.In this regard, for electronics use on a hobby bench at home, a Fluke 87 is mostly overkill, price-wise, because the main distinguishing feature to other DMMs is its robustness and reputation to be within spec even after 20 years.On a hobby bench these are not necessarily the main features I would spend my money on. Especially for small voltages (battery charging circuits etc.) I would like to have a DMM with a good resolution, that ist faster than the slow readings of a Fluke 87 at 20.000 counts mode.Also some stuff like being able to lit LEDs with the diode test is sometimes nice- 3V is needed to make the blue/white LED show some reaction.Here the mentioned DMMs like U1233A or 11x series from Fluke are nice DMMs, but lack a bit the precision or other features for electronics works (like measuring small currents precisely) as they are intended for maintenance electricians in an industrial environment.Some Brymen DMM (why not the 786 and support the eevblog?) probably is cheaper with more features geared towards electronic use and offers the wanted CAT rating.Other brands that could be worth a look are Hioki (DT4261 or DT4282) or, if there is lots of money burning a hole in the pocket, the actual lineup of Gossen Metrawatt- they got some very nice gizmos lined up with special features, but sadly with a hefty price tag.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:58:27 pm
content: I don't know what to recommend and although I use the Fluke 87V at work and like it a lot it seems not the right meter for the OP. If I were the OP I would want something with more resolution and accuracy. I found my 189 is better in this regard but it's no longer made and it has poor battery life.I have both the 287 and 289 and while the OP said their displays are goregeous I think they are hard to read as they have very low contrast.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on November 13, 2022, 09:39:00 amAre Hioki "cheap"?

author: andyB2022
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:29:29 pm
content: What is the best Fluke multimeter in your opinion? Please ignore 87V and 289.... I don't see them as the best...IMO 189 seems the king... long battery life (compared to 289), fast power on (compared to 289), nice accuracy, more counts (vs 87V).

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 02:34:19 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on November 13, 2022, 01:58:27 pmWhen I said "gorgeous" I was not referring to the readability or usability but rather the attractiveness of the information displayed.... graphs, tables, plots values - that's what I meant. In a similar sense I find the old DEC VT1xx line of terminals gorgeous, especially the later ones that could display basic graphics like bars. Maybe I am just referring to the high-tech (read geek) factor??Though I'm probably still stuck in the 80s for my computing preferences as I'm not a fan of point-click at all.... guess that's why I went hardcore into the UNIX world

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 04:32:12 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 13, 2022, 02:21:22 pmWell, depends on the view ;-)Hioki DT4256 is sold actually in germany (Reichelt) for 214 € incl. sales tax, DT4261 for 271 €- well within the range of a new U123x Keysight or a 11x Fluke.But yes, bang for buck comes probably from Brymen, that gets the features needed by the OP for well below 200 €.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 04:34:38 pm
content: Quote from: andyB2022 on November 13, 2022, 02:29:29 pmNah, the 187 - same as the 189 but no leaky supercap to worry about and won't eat your batteries for breakfast.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 06:31:28 pm
content: Lots more really great suggestions!!Though I'm finding that it's adding to my confusion... in terms of which brand and modelThis confusion is probably down to me not having any experience with modern up to date meters so there are a lot of small personal preferences and details that people have which I am over looking. Sort of like buying a car, they all drive (hence my need for a DMM) but they handle completely differently and feel different inside; not to mention equipment levels.Based on the advice from @nightfire I took a look at Hioki and Gossen MetrawattThe Hioki 4282 mentioned is around $400 so that's not too badI have no idea which model of Gossen but I had a look at the METRAHit 2+ which is around $300, and also some even cheaper models down at the $200 and sub range too. I didn't look at specs but just pricing as I was expecting something in the region of $1500+The Hioki's seem to have a combined uA and A input - is this ok? Just as the video from David I posted above seems to suggest otherwise...One thing I do like between the Hioki and Gossen is that they have connector protectors which stops you from inputting the probe lead into the wrong socket.This might actually be a useful feature for me in the long run. I actually do suffer from hyper anxiety among other issues causing me to go totally blank very quickly almost like a computer crash in terms of full on freeze. It's why I found it so hard to explain things in my initial post and actually got worried that I might start to test peoples patience by sounding like a total dorkHere is a current use case of mine where a meter is definitely going to help out a lot:One of the LED strips that I wired up a few years back was working perfectly fine until a few days ago where I noticed that one of the channels (the cool one) was actually illuminated only dimly. It's a 24V strip that uses PWM as dimming control, I can't remember if it's the voltage or current that's varied to set the levels as they are two types with one being the most common.Today I reversed the input supply, meaning I took out the wires from the PWM module and instead tested by using a different power supply from the other end of the strip (don't try this at home kids):The channel lit up brightly so no problems with the strip at all!This is how it looks right now when connected to the PWM module:That's set to 100% brightnessThere are other strips wired to the same module output in parallel using their own cables all connected to a Phoenix Contact PTFix connector block:So not being able to test anything like this properly is frustrating to say the least.My hunch is that the copper cores of the input feed have oxidized which was the case on the other side of the wall where we had a issue with damp.It would still be better for me to be able to test the current flowing through to make sure that the output channel of the PWM module hasn't blown slightly causing a reduction in output current spec, or if somehow there is a short between +V and 0V, and also check the voltage to see that there is no volt drop in the circuit.Just now having checked the Gossen World DMM:https://www.gmc-instruments.de/en/products/measuring-and-test-technology/multimeters-and-handheld-calibrators/basic-digital-instruments/metrahit-world/it has a 6000 count display, 3V diode tester (which is probably going to be useful for testing the 3.3V LED's I use as power indicators. Price wise it's sort of between $450-500 which is ok but a little light when compared to the count of the Bergman and Hioki meters.If I was buying on aesthetics alone then I must admit that I do like the Gossens the best

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 07:53:02 pm
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 13, 2022, 06:31:28 pmBrymens don't have those physical protectors but they beep loudly at you if the lead is in the wrong socket for the selected range.Even so: The golden rule of measuring current is toalways use the 10A range- the 10A range will usually have mA resolution and 10A fuses are relatively difficult to blow around the house (even if you short out mains AC your circuit breakers will probably be faster than the fuse).Only use the mA/uA ranges if you've already tried the 10A range and have seen that it's safe.( Cue all the people who blow 10A fuses on a daily basis...)

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 08:32:40 pm
content: Well, the Metrahit 2+ is a quit basic multimeter, where I suspect it simply exists so that Gossen Metrawatt can claim that they also have something in the basic area- in this regard there are lots of other brands that offer a better bang for buck, unless you are an industrial user and need lots of papertrail including calibration certificates. Gossen Metrawatt DMMs really shine above the 500 € mark, where there are functions inside for very special applications, like isolation testers for telecommunication cabling etc.When working a lot with PWM signals, it would be useful if the DMM has a duty cycle measuring option available, which would point to the pricier models.Aaaand: When working a lot in cabinets, some hanger option is very nice to get the hands free- I basically love my Fluke 179 at work for the magnetic hanger option. In my opinion so far the best implementation I have come across.(Ok, haven't seen the Hioki or Brymen versions, but lots of stuff elsewhere)

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 11:54:48 pm
content: I think I need to rule out HiokiI'm not sure how readily available it is locally. Sure I can get it from one of the big electronics suppliers like RS, Farnell, Mouser but that's gona be it I think....It's a shame because they have very decent specs after checking the models suggested above.One options could be the Yokogawa TY720/710 models. From what I can tell, they are mid price range devices but have lots of features and good certification for working with higher voltage levels:https://tmi.yokogawa.com/solutions/products/portable-and-bench-instruments/digital-multimeters/ty720-digital-multimeter/the display count is 50k with pretty decent accuracy too.Actually I thought I would have to rule out Gossen too but they do seem to be available locally. Looking at pricing and features of course, the Metrahit AM Pro looks ok but as @nightfire has just suggested, the functionality maybe basic for the price. Yep they have lots of very expensive specialist equipment and even one device which is certified by AIRBUS.Here's the link:https://www.gmc-instruments.de/en/products/measuring-and-test-technology/multimeters-and-handheld-calibrators/digital-multimeters/universal-multimeters/metrahit-am-series/metrahit-am-pro/Now depending on local availability I guess the shortlist becomes something like this:Brymen Bm789Brymen Bm869sBrymen Bm817sYokogawa TY710Yokogawa TY720Hioki DT4282Gossen (model undecided)Fluke (model undecided)Just checking one store, the brands listed of portable models are stuff like Amprobe, TTi, and Megger. Another store has stuff like Chauvin Arnoux, Exatech, Kewtech, Metrel, DiLog, and Uni-T; the only brand that is big that they have is Fluke <- just adding here that the 114 and 115 pics look quite cute in that the meters are really compactIt seems like Teledyne seems to be carried by a few people too....^|Call the above "market research" if you like lol.... basically it's me trying to find out and understand what's around. I guess most of you guys would stay well away from many of the brands these specialized test equipment stores carry

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:38:35 am
content: To which country/region the devices would have to be shipped?Sometimes some international shipping company could help out, for example welectron in germany is quite known for this.Regarding the Gossen Metrahit AM Pro: What you get is a very solid DMM, that comes with 3 years warranty and factory calibration and certificate, accredited to DaKKS- some official standard. Means that you can directly use it to do densitive work where you are required to produce a papertrail.Also very good base accuracy of 0.05% VDC with 12000 counts.I had the opportunity to have a look at the insides of a sibling (a Metrahit Extra), that is mechanically similar that we have/had at work, but suffered from battery leakage. Mechanically very solid and nice, and about those is an older video on the eevblog youtube channel.But to be fair, its like the Fluke DMMs: You get a very solid device with a papertrail, but as a home user probably never will use those perks to the fullest.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:46:14 am
content: At work we got nothing else than fluke meters.It´s the standard what industrial needs concerns.In private I use a Brymen meter (869s), in my opinon it´s the one which comes closest to the fluke models with nearly same features.The first 869s I´ve bought, I´ve given it away for external calibration, no joke..Just to see how good it is in real.And I wasn´t disappointed.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 02:10:30 am
content: I think you are both giving me very good advice here and I really agree in terms of Fluke and Gossen.In terms of shipping to me from abroad, unfortunately if something is not sold locally there are heavy import and duty fees to be paid. Actually I am having the same problem with photography and astrophotography equipment, in that we no longer can benefit from EU shipping advantages.For that reason I'm not entirely sure how easy it is to find the Hioki stuff.... Google does not reveal anything apart from what I mentioned.Way earlier on there was a suggestion to buy from AlliExpress... again I will be hit with customs and duty fees. Actually I have installed many Android tablets on my walls (they are PoE based and use Ethernet rather then wifi) for building control that come from Shenzen in China and having things sent back for repair is a nightmare due to export/import paperwork etc...I guess that leaves my choice between Brymen and Yokogawa. I haven't really heard much about Yokogawa here on the forum through searches but the "how to choose a DMM" video does mention them. They are a little more pricey then Brymen but still loaded full of features.Though I'm not sure if the excess price will mean better build or more robust software?From what I am reading there is a reason that Brymen is very popular.One thing that did come up in the thread that I linked in at the top was an issue with the sample and hold feature where it was being compared to Fluke. Maybe it's not so important but definitely convenient to have.Finally if there's no big difference between Brymen and Yokogawa to justify the increase in price then which Brymen model out of the ones I shortlisted? But if there is a significant difference to warrant the price increase what exactly is it?With the Brymens being so cost effective ie. cheap compared to all the other brands mentioned it makes it hard to choose because there is not a lot of difference in price between the different models. Though at this price point I almost feel like getting all 3 though I am not sure what I would do with them all as I have only 2 arms and hands haha

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:25:36 am
content: I'd vote for at least two meters: a crude but safe one for mains and full-featured but perhaps not so rugged one for electronics.I'm not totally sure what your mains work consists of, but for mains electrical (as opposed to electronic) work, consider the Fluke line of "testers" (as opposed to meters).https://www.fluke.com/en-us/products/electrical-testing/basic-testersThey're all designed for use by electricians, appliance repair technicians, etc. Very safe, rugged, and with enough precision to get a typical job done, but nowhere near as precise or full-featured as an 87-V.As an extreme example, a non-contact voltage detector is a very quick, easy-to-use, and inexpensive tool for figuring out how far mains AC is getting, when you've discovered that it doesn't seem to be getting to where you need it. But it's a hopelessly imprecise tool for electronics work. At around $20, they're cheap enough that, in addition to whatever other meters I own, I'll always have one of those "fire sticks" for electrical maintenance around the home.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:37:52 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 13, 2022, 07:53:02 pmExcellent advice, usually. But automotive work can easily blow 10A fuses. Starter motors will pull hundreds of amps, and there are lots of smaller accessories that pull tens of amps.My golden rule is to start with an AC/DC current clamp, and only put the multimeter in the circuit at the 10A range after the current clamp shows it's safe. Then progress to the lower range if warranted. Exactly the same principle as you describe, just taken a bit farther.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:46:45 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on November 14, 2022, 03:37:52 amPutting them inline with something that draws hundreds of amps is bad for fuses, obviously, but you can't expect a multimeter to measure that current either, so...(...so get a clamp)

author: mqsaharan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:48:19 am
content: I haven't read the whole thread, only last two posts of yours. If you don't have a preference functions wise, my suggestions are:If you want to go with Brymen, go to the store, hold them in your hand, see them in person. They have 4 distinct sizes apart from the pocket meters. Buy the top model available in the size you like. You can't go wrong there.If you like Yokogawa, go with TY720. You do need to see its display in person as it is the most criticized thing about TY710/720.If you like Fluke products and your work doesn't include PWM signals, go with Fluke 17B Max or 17B+ if Max is not available there. It is a basic multimeter. It is average responding and not TRMS in AC functions.If you want (kind of) an everlasting meter and money is not that big a factor there, go with 87V/87V Max. It'll cover your work from basic bench electronics to industrial AC mains like most Brymens.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 03:48:44 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on November 14, 2022, 03:25:36 amThat could be a good option too!I mean I do have a Greenlee voltage pen if that's what you are referring to?Here's the link to it:https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/adjustable-voltage-detector-gt-16I mean the mains stuff really is just getting voltage readings or measuring current. Like a few have suggested previously, I'd probably want to get a clamp meter addon for that though at least in the AC domain.You might have a good point to grab an 'electricians' Fluke or Gossen at their most basic but safety rated levels and then a second meter for DC related work.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:00:00 am
content: Luckily I have setup the system to be able to log everything and display it in my building control software... but obviously that doesn't help trouble shoot if something goes wrong. In this case I am referring to AC mains levelsThank you ModBUS and SNMP protocols lol

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:32:34 am
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 14, 2022, 03:48:44 amYes, that's the kind of non-contact voltage detector I was referring to.In addition, Fluke makes some testers that are basically like a low precision digital volt/ohm meter, capable of AC or DC voltage in the hundreds of volts, as well as resistance. See the T+Pro, for example:https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/basic-testers/fluke-t-plus-pro#It has a 3-digit LCD for displaying voltage. If you touch the probes to a voltage source, it will measure voltage, but if you touch them to an unpowered circuit, it will measure continuity or resistance, as appropriate. It's designed to be "idiot proof" and fast, but neither full-featured nor precise.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:19:15 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on November 14, 2022, 03:37:52 amMy clamp meter has the resolution of 0.1A so if I measure starter current I would use it. I only go thru the trouble of inserting the meter in the circuit where I need higher resolution and in which case the current can't be high.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 01:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on November 14, 2022, 01:19:15 pmThe same principle applies: Start with the clamp meter and use the multimeteronlyif the clamp meter shows it's safe to do so.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 02:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on November 14, 2022, 04:32:34 amHaving probes will make life a lot easier. The major problem with contactless is in crowded environments. For my distribution panel I separated AC to the front and put DC to the rear. I didn't have any more space to work with so adding more panels was not a possibility to separate things further and ease maintenance when needed. This is the time where having the benefit of a dedicated room or basement really helpsYou can see below just how tightly squeezed everything is:The mentioned Fluke looks like their version of a pocket meter which is cool.Additionally, I also have a Zircon wall tester which will also check for AC in a non-contact fashion. I actually bought this because we don't have any walls left in the house as they're filled with cables. It's the price you pay for letting a tech guy (me) run wild and attempt to gain centralized control over every parameter.

author: ci11
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:07:22 pm
content: Although you are very graciously courteous, from your posted pictures it appears the environment the DMM will work in is not likely trivial, and separately, nor are you unfamiliar with potential pitfalls in built-to-a-price "test" equipment. The only answers I need when I buy test equipment are:1. are you safe using this equipment in case of an unexpected fault, and2. can you trust, rely on, or in some cases, publish the readings it givesBuyers always want to pay less. Many profit-minded "businesses" seize on this to offer products at incredible "value" that are inadequately engineered and tested, or passed rigorous safety and reliability tests. Good components cost more money but they pale in comparison to the cost of thorough, competent and truthful assurance testing - components are generally getting better at the same price but the cost of competent engineers and thorough engineering is always increasing. The pages of this forum are full of doubts of brand x or y and attempts to do what "built-to-a-price" manufacturers should have done on their own.I am now only the higher-end models from Gossen and Fluke as they best meet the 2 criteria mentioned above - they are likely safer to use, and I can trust the results they provide. Of course I have been tempted with lower-cost options and did yield to their allure a few times. But now, after eventually spending more in the end almost every time, my motto is "Buy once, cry once".

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: ci11 on November 14, 2022, 04:07:22 pmYou'll struggle to find a forum member who believes that Brymen shouldn't be on that list.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 14, 2022, 04:16:48 pmWhat, we are going again into the "A brand instrument vs B brand" discussion?

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:34:46 pm
content: This is such a difficult question to answer definitively as everyone has a different perspective on DMM's.Mine is that if you are going to have just one, go for the highest spec and features within your budget. You may not need or think you need a feature rich meter but it's there if ever you do, there is always mission creep!Looking at value for money it is difficult to beat Brymen, they are well designed and made, also reliableIf money is not an issue then Fluke is always in the equation, but generally not that upto date and seem to be short on features, quality product though, so worth considering.Two brands that are rarely mentioned here are Flir and Chauvin Arnoux. Both are premium brands with some excellent models, and Flir is made in the USA, Chauvin in France. The Metrix models in the Chauvin Arnoux range are superb. I have examples from both makers and really, really like them. Not for the budget conscious though.The other brand that doesn't get the attention it deserves is Hioki, made in Japan and outstanding quality and design. Not a budget option though.Good luck in your quest!

author: ci11
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 04:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 14, 2022, 04:16:48 pmYou are correct that there are many supporters of Brymen.I can only attest to and offer my own experience: attached are 4 photos comparing the Fluke 79 Series II which I owned and used since purchased new in 1985 against a brand new Greenlee DM860A, the twin of the Brymen 869s. I bought the Greenlee only because they are officially distributed in the US and has a warranty. Sure the Greenlee is perhaps an unlucky sample of one, but for nearly 40 years, the less than high-end Fluke has been consistently "lucky". At the time when I bought the Fluke, it cost nearly 3 times as much as anything else with the same features and it was by no means a high-end model. I still use it if it must fit into a tight space.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 06:15:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 14, 2022, 01:47:29 pmWhat I meant is that even before you make the measurement you would know the range of the current and the accuracy you would need for the measurement and thus you don't need to approach it like a totally unknown measurement.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 06:29:47 pm
content: Quote from: ci11 on November 14, 2022, 04:48:48 pmIf you look at the specs for all the devices, the Greenlee's reading is within range - it's possible (likely?) that it is closer to the true voltage than what either the Fluke 79 or the power supplies are displaying.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 09:22:23 pm
content: decisions ... decisions ... decisions, or just plain prejudice?I prejudge certain brands and remove them entirely from a purely 'open' choice selection. Though often popular, acclaimed, and best bang-for-buck models of test equipment, they never quite raise the requisite consumer expectation on my part to buy. I'm sure there is a polar opposite, who is budget and specification conscious, who has little resonance with some longstanding 'classic' and vaunted design quality. Of course, given our predispositions we should still decide, as best we can, within them.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2022, 11:53:13 pm
content: Quote from: ci11 on November 14, 2022, 04:07:22 pmLike I said initially, I have not used a DMM for around 20 years, also I am really poor at explaining as I have a medical condition which actually "communication difficulties" are part of it. It's basically something about neurons getting stuck or going down the wrong pathways etc....So I'm trying to do the best I can here. If it was computer network equipment from brands like Cisco then I would have a much better idea because I have been dealing with that stuff for many years both personally and professionally.An example would be my wifi setup which uses a Cisco WLC 4402 controller, it is old... too old and EOL'd. Would I recommend it? No way, unless it is a corporate business their model is too restrictive ie. no software updates unless you have a service account and they stop support for older models quicklyIn order to save some cash I bought mine used at a crazy low price and now I am suffering. Sure I don't wana spend $10k on a newer version but something like Rukus is much better supported and end user friendly due to their business model.The controller still supports LDAP and RADIUS authentication with LEAP or PEAP etc... so absolutely no problems.This is primarily why I didn't include a price, because at the end of the day I don't know how much would need to spent on a decent meter. The suggestions of many people have helped to assure me that you don't need to go beyond $500 or even a $1000 for decent meter.You also mention the 'safety' aspect and I am all well too aware of it which is why having something like CATIII or CATIV certification is relevant. On the other hand, like a few people have pointed out the Flukes and Gossens have a paper trail which helps businesses that deal with these things professionally.The above is not my use case as mostly I deal with Ethernet cable installation if at all. I have 2 Greenlee cable testers for this, one a mini tester and the other a distributed tester. I find them to be fantastic but do not use them everyday.As for my images, I'm trying to help explain things of what I need the meters for where otherwise I am failing to explain in text. At the beginning I already recognized the issue as @Martin72 mentioned that I am not wording things very well to get to the point.The last thing I want to do is cause frustrating for you guys or upset anyone. I am all too well aware of my personal issues and shortcomings which is why I am so grateful and thankful for so much input from everyone.I can assure you that starting this thread was probably more difficult for me then anyone trying to chime in and help through the really vague descriptions that I have given.Honestly, I really apologize if I am causing frustration among everyone!

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:28:13 am
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on November 14, 2022, 04:34:46 pmI have looked at Hioki and really like them but they seem difficult to find. Only through RS and Farnell. I haven't checked Mouser for that.I wonder if they have a local presence?Otherwise the suggested model:https://www.hioki.com/euro-en/products/testers/dmm-4/id_5803does look really good. Price wise it's ok, not as high as more advanced models from Fluke and GossenThanks for the good wishes!!

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:40:42 am
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 15, 2022, 12:28:13 amI don't know what "local" is for you, but Amazon US offers the Hioki DT4282 for around $400 shipped. Note that the offers are from 3rd party sellers, but Amazon backs a return window that ends Jan 31, 2023 on some of them.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:53:20 am
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on November 15, 2022, 12:40:42 amThat would be Europe but non-EU. Will check Amazon too as I didn't even think about that one. Thanks for that

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 02:17:30 am
content: Just checked amazon now for Hioki and this is what it came up with:3244-60 - around $603030-10 - around $150DT4256 - around $500DT4252 - around $2003244-60 - around $1200That's everything after putting in "Hioki 4282" into the search bar....If Hioki is so hard to find, then Brymen might be the best option for the moment and I can always go for another meter at a later point if I need to. Probably like @AG6QR suggested: getting two meters; something like one meter for electronic use (this can be of a larger size)and another smaller meter for basic test measurements but certified still to high CAT ratingI admit this question is almost as difficult as asking to buy chocolate- which brand, type, price point etc... uh hahaha , your stock candy bar like Mars or something which will set you back 1 or 2 bucks or do you go for a high priced Belgian make that might end up costing $50 or more for very little quantity

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 02:43:38 am
content: I won't make your life easier...Sanwa PC7000 is a good featured option as well - just like the Brymens, it has a 500.000 count mode as well, but it is a bit more accurate.https://www.sanwa-america.com/products/pc7000-digital-multimeter-with-true-rms-and-pc-linkI don't have one, but I have used their analog models back in the 1980s and they were excellent meters!

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 05:12:33 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 15, 2022, 02:43:38 amYeah sure let's confuse the OP (me) even further by adding N to the SnR ratiohahahaWell.... I have finally seen a nice comparison for the Hioki lineup:https://www.hioki.com/euro-en/download/32992No wonder the saying "there's no perfect multimeter" keeps coming up...I like the idea of Auto AC/DC, the cute series (422x) have voltage detection (does that mean non-contact? - I guess)The 6223 model looks really cool for generic work. Though it doesn't have diode or capacitor checking - which I guess is no big deal with a second meter geared more towards electronics.My shortlist for Hioki would be:622342534256426142824282If I can find them and see prices that would be great. I'll check with my local industrial part supplier if they deal with them; they deal with everyone else including Phoenix Contact, ABB, Carlo Gavazzi, Greenlee etc... so fingers crossed.By the way, I can see that some of the models have USB or Bluetooth connectivity. Does anyone know if they would be Linux compatible and what software would work with these guys? I have been running Arch Linux on my desktop/laptop machines for around 15 years and don't want to switch over to anything else in that respect.I did come across this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/multimeter-interface-with-desktop-linux/so I need to take a closer look at KST Plot and see if there are alternatives in addition

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 12:12:56 pm
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 15, 2022, 05:12:33 amsigrok's supported hardware pagedoesn't mention Hioki, but does mention support for several other brands you are considering (such as Brymen, Fluke, Gossen).Of course there may be other software than sigrok available that supports Hioki on Linux. The protocols appear to be fully documented. At least for the 4252 the interface is a simple serial-over-usb interface so you could even roll your own. Brymen also document their protocols. Fluke's protocol documentation for the 187/189 is unofficial (https://photonicsguy.ca/reference/flukemeter). I believe the 287/289 protocol is the same as 187/189. I don't know about Gossen's protocol, but since sigrok supports it there must be something out there (even if only in sigrok's source code).

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 01:45:09 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on November 15, 2022, 12:12:56 pmThanks! Checked out SigRok, it looks interesting.Also found this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/many more meters seem to be supported and not just the lower tier ones which seems to be primarily where SigRok is aiming:https://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware#MultimetersAnother piece of good news. I found a local presence for Hioki, but no pricingthere are two distributors however, outside of RS and Farnell so they maybe able to help with a reseller if they can't sell directly themselves.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:23:29 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 13, 2022, 02:50:53 amTuesday...From left to right:Fluke 115, 117, 175, 87V, 289 and my private brymen 869s.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 06:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 15, 2022, 06:23:29 pmVery cool!!

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 09:46:39 pm
content: For EU,www.reichelt.deseems like a good possibility.As for the models, the DT4261 is a good compromise between features and price, unless the real strengths of the DT4282 are really needed.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on November 15, 2022, 09:46:39 pmYeah, unfortunately we are no longer in the EURight now I'm banging my head a little against the wall as I have almost found the perfect combination but* unfortunately the small/cute model doesn't measure currentI actually short listed down to these two - one for practical use and the other for more high performance use:DT4223DT4282It seems I didn't read the specs properly as the 422x series doesn't measure current or resistance, while the 3/4 models do resistance but not current. Maybe they are too small to include the circuitry to measure current? It seems a strange design choice...Because of that I have been comparing with the Brymen 257s which is slightly bigger (not too much) but still does the basic measurements of V/A/R and a whole bunch more....It's almost like having the DT2456 in a smaller package.This is where things start to become even more difficult

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:22:17 pm
content: Hioki also promotes the absence of current measurement on some models as an active safety feature that prevents accidental voltage probing with leads put in the Amps range...

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 10:28:56 pm
content: That's probably what it is.... The compact models don't have removable leads from what I can see which makes their socket shutters redundantThat makes senseWell I guess tomorrow I'll give the distributors a ping and see what they say as to where I can get them from and hopefully then I'll also have some pricing to compare too

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2022, 11:30:11 pm
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 15, 2022, 06:26:11 pmThese are the models I could get in a break..We got Fluke 115, 117, 175, 179, 87V, 187 and 289.The 115/117 are nice little ones which we use for tests with no special requirements - They got 1% basic accuracy.The 175/179 got the advantage of having max 1000V input voltage and they´re cheaper than 87V.187 and 289 we use for AC-measurements beyond 20khz (the limit of the 87) - And the 289 got a remarkable advantage against other flukes:It could measure capacities up to 40mF (40000µF).The 87V is our mostly used one, we got over 20pcs, it´s accuracy and bandwith are sufficent enough for nearly 95% of all our requirements.The brymen I took to work to show the size, it´s a little bit bigger than fluke 87V.Together with probemaster testleads I´m totally confident with this meter.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 12:28:16 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 15, 2022, 11:30:11 pmIt just shows how much choice there is out there and how many good brands are around. I guess I should have included "making coffee" in my criteria as that might be the most important thingWhat makes things so difficult is if you don't use these tools everyday or are not familiar with different models and brands to know how each handles then it's very much like picking a number of out of a hat. It becomes a lottery, and you don't know what you're going to get in terms of if you will like it or not as everyone's use case, criteria (which has already been pointed out) and style is different.haha uh help!

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 12:24:07 pm
content: I haven't even seen a Hioki in real life but with what I read I think they are very nice meters.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 03:28:51 pm
content: I have the DT4256 from Hioki, it was my toe in the water test for the brand! It is right there with Fluke on build quality with better features for the price and really nice to use. I will be going for one of the top of the range models sometime soon, based on my experience of the 4256.For me, the fact that it is made in Japan has weight, they don't skimp on component quality.

author: multiJ
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 07:21:21 pm
content: Quote from: kayasaman on November 15, 2022, 10:19:03 pmIn my place of the world the DT4223 has a ~50 euro price difference from the DT4252/DT4256 so I would prefer one of these instead -if you have your mind set on Hioki. IMO of course.DT4282 looks pretty nice too if you need the higher count and extra features.Edit: typo

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 07:27:59 pm
content: If I ever decide to get a "luxury" multimeter it will be a Hioki DT4282.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 08:48:11 pm
content: At my last employer, I had a Fluke 179 and a current clamp from Hioki- build quality of t his was really good, especially considering the very competitive pricing back then- but I have to admit, that I have no practical haptical experience with their recent DMMs.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 12:29:33 am
content: For some people this doesn´t matter..I´m thankful to work in a professional testfield since 19yrs, learning to use and know pro-equipment every day and comparing them to my home equipment.This is the real deal instead reading datasheets and watching videos..We use equipment from lecroy, tektronix, fluke, hioki, yokogawa, GenRad, ZES.At home I got siglent, hioki, tektronix, brymen, and some china brands.Based on my experiences at home/work, I would call the brymen meter for example as a cheap alternative to pro-brands.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 12:58:11 am
content: Again thank you all so much for the valuable input and recommendations!Someday I really hope to pay the favor back, but let's see what the future holds.Looking more closely at the DT422x range, they are small and ultra cute but not having current measurement just feels a little restrictive.Really it seems right now the smaller DMM choice will be a close call between the Bryman 257s and Hioki DT4256. It's a shame as I like the size of the 422x series.... Really it's like the difference between my Greenlee (Textron) NC100 and NC500. The NC100 being smaller is more practical for basic LAN wiring tests while if you need to test more eg. at a patch panel then the NC500 is more suited to that kind of thing. Though.... having said that it looks like Hioki even have a tester with more then just 8 dongles... that would have helped so much while wiring my house as I have over 100 ports in the 3 patch panels upstairs and 4x server racks in total.The suggestion for 2 DMM's is probably the way I will go and that means combining one of the above with a Hioki DT4282.As to which one I will get first will probably boil down to my other interest needs... I mentioned photography previously and that stuff is heavily expensive, especially for astro stuff; so I'll really need to weigh things up on my end.Yes Hioki is from Japan and usually the Japanese make fantastic equipment and feats of engineering. Brymen I think is German (along with Gossen) which are also fantastic for engineering and quality. I would say probably the two top countries globally that just have an edge over everyone else.Though I can also vouch for many other companies from other countries but I am generalizing in the above statement as really anyone can make high quality products, it just depends on how knowledgeable and caring the company is and if they are willing or not to skip on things.

author: kayasaman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2022, 01:15:19 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 17, 2022, 12:29:33 amIndeed, and I have to agree with you. I'm sure as a fellow engineer we share that same sentiment of what professional work is looking for and what we are looking for outsifde of the "office", even though we may know our fields inside and out.Maybe because of my medical condition I don't know, but most people compare me to Prof. Brown from Back to the Future. Especially anyone doing residential "Home Automation" stuff.... most of the time I recommend to those guys to mix good quality pro stuff at not high level prices with custom built stuff. I get nods and blank looks at this time but it's just so much easier having open API's to communicate between different things then some licensed protocol that you can't get your hands on.For the network backbone, I always recommend to use fully managed L2 switches with LACP trunking capability. No, you don't need to spend $10k per switch doing this and in fact it can be done at a quite reasonable price. Unfortunately most of the time these guys tend to install unmanaged switches to save on price then end up with all their eggs in one basket which causes nothing but problems.It's the same thing if we relate that to multimeter or test equipment choice. At home for personal use we might actually end up wanting more then what the pro stuff have to offer but not needing the paper trail or IPxx design... I mean it's highly unlikely that one would need an explosion proof multimeter for home or personal use - unless you like blowing things up a lot haha@martin72 it's a shame we can't talk more about this over a nice beer as the debate would be quite fun without a doubt...I haven't actually said "{Prosst)" in a long time either