how long are multimeter models good for? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: d4n13l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2018, 07:27:07 pm
content: Hi,I want to buy a multimeter, Dave suggests the extech ex330 in one of his videos but this video is from 2011. So I'm wondering if it's still a good option, how often are there upgrades on multimeters? do you have a better more current recommendation with similar quality/price?

author: Jon.C
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 04:23:12 am
content: in that rangethe Brymen BM235https://www.eevblog.com/product/bm235-multimeter/https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM869s-BM867s-BM257s-BM235-BM859-BM857-Professional-Multimeters-Series/302094989685?hash=item465643b975%3Am%3Ama67TWP9yVkzvFq56tAaRRw&var=601079344502

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 04:29:46 am
content: Or the BM257. I think the bar graph is a worthwhile upgrade.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 05:10:34 am
content: My Fluke 87 was made in the late 90s and it's still a fantastic meter. Test equipment isn't like a laptop or smartphone, it doesn't get outdated quickly.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:09:38 am
content: I have two OLD Fluke DMM's -- the 27 that dates back to, about, 1987 and an 85 that's about 1990. Both still work just fine after about 30 years.Brian

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:28:02 am
content: An EX330 is $50. At this price, a close option for low energy circuits (electronics mostly) is the UT61E. You could also go for a pair of Aneng 8008, but read carefully the threads around here for its limitations for electronics. Also, the durability of the Anengs is unknown (they are too recent).If you go higher in price, the Brymen options are quite interesting.A few years ago Extech showed a wide variance in its quality control, where buyers had brand new meters with both nuisances and blatantly dangerous problems. This eroded their brand at the time, but their current state is unknown.As james_s said, a DMM is a tool that may last a lifetime, therefore there is no need to upgrade it or chase after the latest model every two years. Considering its durability, the price you initially pay for a DMM is watered down throughout the years of use.

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 03:07:17 pm
content: It's a multimeter, not a pair of Yeezies.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West#Fashion

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:00:21 pm
content: As long as there are no component failures, or a change in requirements that need better resolution or ranges not available on the old equipment, theoretically the life span is indefinite. For testing the resistor wheels on my model trains, I have an relatively ancient 8012A clip-leaded to a piece of track. Accuracy is more than adequate for the purpose, it's AC mains powered so I don;t have to worry about batteries, and I don't have to fiddle with holding probes on a wheelset.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:43:05 pm
content: I have old multimeter called AVO8 it have been made at first half of the 1960's, the last official calibration sticker is from 2003, when it still were used by military. It is still on its specks (The 2500 Vac/dc ranges are unknown)I do also have old 2nd hand Fluke 8030A (1970's, yes 1970's), which I compared to a new in a box Fluke 117 for a few years ago and the readings were equivalent to each other.Note though that these were a premium multimeters when they were new.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 07:53:13 pm
content: Hi, with me it ran like this:When I restarted my electronic activities, I bought a bunch of Chinese low-cost meters. For the coarse stuff I needed in the beginning, they were good enough.After a while I tried to build and measure trickier things, and that brought them to the limit. RMS was no RMS, resistor measurements had large errors, ...In the debugging process of a larger circuit, I found out (after a few wasted hours) that not my circuit was wrong, but the multimeter displayed nonsense.Lesson learned: I kicked all of them out and bought some Fluke 85V for about 20 times the price of the junk.Status today:- All the 85 Vs work and display the same values within their tolerance- All (I bought 5) are still on the first battery after 3 years.- Never had an issue with wrong readings- They have a LIFETIME guarantee (their definition of lifetime is eight years after a model has been discontinued).- They are safe, with ample protection by MOVs and fuses. See Daves tests for multimeter safety, then you will probably never by a cheap oneIn other words this stuff is an investment, but worth the money.

author: mdszy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:26:45 pm
content: For whatever it's worth, I've had an EX330 since I started messing with this stuff ~6 years ago and I still love mine. Never had any issues, works great, does what I need it to do.

author: M4x
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:37:25 pm
content: I've bought a used Gossen Metrawatt Metrahit One Plus (https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metrahitoneplus.htm) when I was an apprentice on eBay for around 100 €. I'm using it for about 12 years now. A few days ago I've bought the 121GW because I like the project and some of it's features. To be honest, the only functions I've really missed on my Gossen is a backlight, True RMS and the ability to measure voltage and current at the same time. One could use two multimeters for the last one (that doesn't mean that I've no use for the nice features of the 121GW [it's data logging right now] ;-) ).You see: Choose a quality meter and you can get very happy with it for a long time.Max

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 09:43:41 pm
content: I still occasionally use my Fluke 8060a. It's about 30+ years old, and still in spec. It lacks auto ranging and it's probably not as safe as modern meters, but I love using it for some reason. Generally speaking unless you abuse it, you buy a multi-meter for life.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 10:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 16, 2018, 05:10:34 amI think the main reason would be new safety standards and older meters not adhering to them, but that's mainly a worry in professional settings. This isn't an issue for the home gamer.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 11:47:33 pm
content: I'm not aware of any significant new safety standards, Fluke has pretty much always been at the top of their game so a 30 year old Fluke is probably just about as safe as a brand new one.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 12:12:39 am
content: I am also not aware that the CAT xy rules changed lately. My 87Vs can probably be inherited to future generations before they die.I dont like the throwaway society too much, anyway.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 02:23:56 am
content: Quote from: james_s on August 16, 2018, 11:47:33 pmJoe Smith tested a new 87 against a much older one and the new one was a lot more robust.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 03:58:06 am
content: Robust and safe are not necessarily the same thing. The sort of testing he does is generally irrelevant to a hobbyist, and I would also be shocked if even an ancient Fluke is less safe than most of the modern low cost meters on the market.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 03:59:27 am
content: My Fluke 87 is about 22 years old. It has been dropped, rained on, traveled the world, lost in Las Vegas, recovered 2 years later.......I can't imagine anything more robust.Short and misplld from my mobile......

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 05:39:25 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 17, 2018, 02:23:56 amYes, but how many homecooker will do a such hi-power electrical or power electronics work that need a meter to withstand a huge switching transients in the industrial or distribution scale.. Where the surrounding circuit/equipment is not more potentially lethal than the meter itself. Almost none (and those who do should be already in the level to be able to design their own multimeter if decided). The normal wall socket low voltage (yes official term) will not toast even a legendary rubbish meter XX830 if not plugged in with wrong scale on it (don't lick the power socket neither). I would be much more concerned about the desk lamp rubbish power cord etc.That said a good meter is a good meter and if you can get safety even better.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2018, 06:19:04 pm
content: I've still got a few Fluke 25s that I use, all are accurate despite being about 30 years old and are ideal for hobby use

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 07:36:54 am
content: Multimeters are good for as long as they meet your requirements (or it breaks, blows up, etc.). So, don't sweat it. It's not going to gradually get slower due to OS updates or nonsense like that.There are lots of good suggestions for models that might work in this thread and in many threads like it here. Grab one and enjoy!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 09:08:10 am
content: I've got old Avo's that are all still perfectly functional and they're older than a nice Jap Kaise meter that I got for my 21st nearly forty years ago. I'd be surprised if my daily driver a Fluke 15B lasts that long, it's only a young'un at ~6.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 02:19:29 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on August 17, 2018, 05:39:25 pmAbout 20 Joules on the high side. That's your idea of a huge switching transients in the industrial or distribution scale, you are obviously lost. My sad little gas grill ignitor does most of the low end meters in, like the 830 you mention.Anyone interested in having a better idea about the transients I have been running, watch the following:https://youtu.be/PJTJJodEuyA

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 02:38:53 pm
content: Quote from: Vtile on August 17, 2018, 05:39:25 pmWhat about DIY EVs? A lot if not most of the DIY automotive scene is wiring up premade modules and not many even know how to design electronics from scratch.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 03:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 09:08:10 amIn a pinch those Avo's would do, but they're certainly not recommended from a safety and usability point of view any more.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 08:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 17, 2018, 02:23:56 amThat is correct however, it's not the end of the story. I went back and had another look at that old 87V to try and understand why it failed at such a low voltage compared with EVERY other Fluke meter I have looked at.https://youtu.be/GhslaLKOpKE

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 08:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 18, 2018, 03:16:33 pmHave you studied a service manual for one ?Part of any service/repair/maintenance operation is a 7kV flash-over test, leads included !I'll happily use one for any low energy measurements to its rated voltage which for some models is 3kV.Of concern these days is the aftermarket leads many are now supplied with as the build quality and materials used ain't a patch on genuine Avo leads.The best in my bunch is a '76 Avo 8 Mk5 which could be interesting for Joe Smith to run against the cheaper DMM's now available.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 09:16:04 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 08:56:27 pmHave you studied a service manual for one ?Part of any service/repair/maintenance operation is a 7kV flash-over test, leads included !I'll happily use one for any low energy measurements to its rated voltage which for some models is 3kV.Of concern these days is the aftermarket leads many are now supplied with as the build quality and materials used ain't a patch on genuine Avo leads.The best in my bunch is a '76 Avo 8 Mk5 which could be interesting for Joe Smith to run against the cheaper DMM's now available.What's the CAT rating?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 09:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 08:56:27 pmQuote from: Mr. Scram on August 18, 2018, 09:16:04 pmI'll ask questions to your question.When were CAT ratings introduced and why ?Now put your specs on and take another look at the now highlighted bit in my post.Meters have been built for 100 years without any requirement for CAT ratings as the few that could afford or knew how to use one also knew only too well the risks involved. Instead of requiring licensing to use one on high energy measurements the industry figured they must protect us from ourselves which implies that not all have the grey matter inbuilt to use a meter safely. In that respect little has changed.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 10:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 09:51:43 pmI'm not sure what you're trying to argue. That Avo's are as safe as modern meters, all other things being equal? That these meters don't age and degrade over time? Or that they're as versatile and accurate as modern meters? Or that insurers don't expect a CAT rating on a meter when things have gone awry? Neither of those statements seem to be true.I seem to have struck a nerve, but I never said Avo's are useless. I merely said that "they're certainly not recommended from a safety and usability point of view any more" and that holds water. Even if they do the job, using them isn't really recommended unless you're having some fun or you really don't have other options.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 10:41:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 18, 2018, 10:15:40 pmOh for goodness sake.So you imply without a CAT rating a meter is not safe to use.You must be a product of modern education without simple powers of reason or ability to identify levels of risk so to avoid obtaining a Darwinian award.CAT ratings were introduced for ppls without the necessary smarts to keep themselves safe.Do weneedto hold a meter to make measurements on dangerous circuits, no instead we use grabbers and croc clips so to not put ourselves in danger.NOCAT rating will ever save a technician from unsafe practices. Period.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2018, 11:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 10:41:18 pmThat's not what was said or implied. However, it doesn't matter any more. The use of an ad hominem and personal insults instantly ends a discussion in favour of the other party. Besides, the thread's been polluted enough.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:33:11 am
content: @joeqsmithmm... there must be some misunderstanding now.First obviously you do drop in category "homecooker" with skill and knowledge to build your own multimeter. Secondly my old xx830 did serve well many moons in back in the days mostly with car and other extra low voltage hobby settings, it weren't accurate, but neither were my knowledge (before internet time) and it even did survive the mains measurements several times as do the el cheopo chinese lowest bid PSUs everyone have around and use without a 2nd quessing. Safe? maybe not, but odds seems to indicate that typical environment those devices aren't particular death traps neither. Sure thing is that I wouldn't take any cheopo meter to measure something like 100kW VFD output or even 1kW if that matters. Most of the hobbyist will not encounter a such and if they do the environment is more potentially dangerous yhan the meter itself just I mentioned earlier.. Like your really nice transient generator.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:38:54 am
content: Quote from: Vtile on August 19, 2018, 01:33:11 amHow safe or unsafe cheap multimeters are has been discussed to death here, with the same arguments every time.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:42:39 am
content: So nothing is better that cheap meter for starting hobbyist?You are right anything below Keysight 3458A is worthless shit.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:51:20 am
content: Quote from: Vtile on August 19, 2018, 01:42:39 amAgain, this discussion has been done to death. Consult the previous 8567 threads for every opinion and angle possible.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:56:50 am
content: What ever.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 06:47:50 am
content: Frankly I think the whole safety culture is overdone, it's a constant arms race between trying to idiot-proof everything and the world coming up with better idiots. At some point it's down to the user to follow safe practice and not be an idiot rather than the equipment designer trying to prevent every imaginable consequence of unsafe users.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 07:12:47 am
content: Quote from: Vtile on August 19, 2018, 01:42:39 amEven 3458A is really old and outdated design. No point of using them anymore. Just send them to me, I collect them for memorabiliaQuote from: Wolfgang on August 17, 2018, 12:12:39 amYea, but earlier Fluke was also making multimeters that didn't fullfill any sort of CAT specs. Orginal Fluke 75 and 73 for example: No fuses whatsoever on 10A current range. ( I know one electrician who got badly burnt and hospitalized after sticking Fluke 75 probes to wrong place)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:16:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 18, 2018, 08:56:27 pmCurrently looking at running an old Fluke 189. Even that's a bit old.OP, the is my Extech branded CEM that I use for work. It's six years old now and has seen a fair bit of abuse. Not a bad meter but I picked up the same meter a while back for $120 brand new. Made a video on it and they sold out. I too agree that as long as it does the job, I'm fine with it.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 03:04:34 pm
content: ONE thing to consider is that your 'Old' Analog meters still have a Technical life too !!!I've seen many scenarios where 'digital meters' being used in proximity to, or incorporatedin testing, of certain high energy Electronic environments, can give drastically false readings.Where-as 'Ye-Olde' analog meters, with 'Real' () Ohms/Volt scaling/readings are true.Horses for courses

author: jordanp123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 05:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on August 21, 2018, 03:04:34 pmI agree. In a former line of work, before I went to engineering school, we would have to test ground resistance in various equipment. A DMM (At least all of the ones we had) was a absolute crap shoot for taking a resistance reading in proximity to live equipment. A old Analog though would generally be right on, if you powered everything off (which most of the time was no possible) the "powered" reading and the "off" reading would be identical.