Parents-Electrical Engineering-RAGE - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 05:18:19 pm
content: Greetings.I wold like to talk about my hard minded parents. I'm studying electrical engineering ( third year ) and as every electronical enthusiast i love towork with electronics. So i have this problem, my parents dont understand my work and my love. They think this is a game and its waste of time.I have a room where i work(not in the house), but when the (september +) winter comes i cant work, because the cold air 0°C - 15°C. I have nothing to heat up the room(again father says if we put furnace in the room, because of the chimney neighbours roof will burn(i dont know how, but he says so) )....The story goes on.... When i bring my stuff in my room (1.5k$ worth electrical equipment) my father starts to make panic and gets full of ragehe says he'll throw everything on the street. I have one room in my house but my parent wont let me to clean it and change it to little lab.And problems go so on, and on. As bonusThey still think that ill kill my self with currentSo I'm interested if you Guys had any problems with your parents and how did you explain them what you love and work for in the name of science.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 05:54:57 pm
content: Not at all. Despite coming from an uneducated working class family (both parents left school at 14), any of my tinkering was (wrongly) considered a sign of genius and I wasn't discouraged at all. Sadly I never went to Uni as that was unheard of in my family - I got a job as soon as I could.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:00:19 pm
content: Just start to repair some electrical stuff they break and they soon will notice that it isn't just playing around and waste of time

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:07:36 pm
content: I did all of that, but there is nothing to help i guess. We had a bigger problem in electrical instalations in our house, it was a 15/20 hour work. 2 Electrical engineers came and I helped them, but when the work was done, Nothing. There was no gain in ther interess after all.Edit:As much as I work, there is no gain (only in knowledge)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:10:56 pm
content: How old are you?Be patient. Wait until you've finished studying, then you can move out.I notice your location is Croatia; is renting/buying property reasonable there? I hope it's not like the UK where it's too expensive for most under 30s to buy.

author: Aleksandar B.
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:18:46 pm
content: Move out. I did it, it was one of the best decisions I made. They still supported me throughout college (only financially), but I think it was the best thing for them and me to live separate lives.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:22:02 pm
content: Im 21, but im in electronics for 5 years now.Due the economic crisis, single person cant buy place to live. I dont know about renting. Now its not that expensive ( it depends where you work and where you are looking for the place ), but Crisis took it over and payments are low ( min. 327€ , avg. >=523€ ). For example my Brother and his Wife are both professors and they took few bank loans to finish only their house( >50k€ for a small house ).

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:28:58 pm
content: Left home at 13 (boarding school) at which point I only came home for Christmas/New Year and the main Summer vacation each year. After that I was at university for three years living with five medical students in a house share, the only problem here was the gruesome stories they insisted on telling me in an effort to make me throw up.In other words, leave home, you won't regret it.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:41:07 pm
content: Its quite hard to do that in my positon. If i go on my own ill lose everything. I have 2 brothers and only one is like an angel, me and the other one are not that much loved. Everything that i have ( oscilloscope, soldering station, PSU, etc ) i bought beheind fathers back. If i did listen him i wouldn't have anything that i have now. F.a. Im begging him to buy me the " The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz ",but the only thing is what i hear is, learn for the school and youll have anything and you'll not have to work as hard as other people.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:24:55 pm
content: Lol, I live with my parents. The key is to lie about how much things cost. That 500 $ microwave generator? Yea ma, i got that for 50$. Intercept the packages before parents can get invoices.I know for a FACT that I got hired because basically I busted my ass raiding dumpsters and accumulating equipment to arrange into a nice laboratory for a picture. I got called into interviews before because my work area looks "nice". I always brought a small duffle bag filled with things i built to my interviews. They like engineers who can do "hands on" stuff and save money *unless its a really big company that has someone do that part for you*. I always talked about how I got good deals on my shit, how I went through dumpsters, etc. It shows you are highly motivated and thrifty. The more stuff you repair the better, businesses like "green technology" lol. (cheap, and environmentally friendly if you are lucky).It helps when you get a electronics job, but parental supervision units still want you to "save", so you can be burried in a nice pyramid when you die I guess.If a company feels that you can save or make them money then they will hire you. Establishing a serious electronics laboratory is a skill in itself, you always want to maximize the cost of equipment vs the quality.btw, moving out will SLASH your R&D and fun budget. Don't do that unless you get kicked out on you rass. In the long run I think its better just to get bitched out once in a while.Parents boil over once in a while and reset. Still better then paying "rent" lol. You are saving for starting your own business, there is no reason to payanyoneany kind of rent. You are an investment.Stick to this line.Just do nice things instead, like cook meals, buy some bread once in a while, etc. Cooking a proper meal once in a while just makes everyone shut the fuck up lol..be sure to sell some gear once in a while, to at least give the impression of some kind of cash flow coming from your hobby. If you can actually make money flipping some test equipment once in a while, then better for you. if not then its good "propaganda" even if you lose like 5$ it can keep the situation cool.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:33:06 pm
content: Surely "The Art of Electronics" is necessary reference material for your college degree?As for your parents forcing you to leave expensive equipment in a ramshackle out house and being scared that it's dangerous, but clearly needed for your course and career? Are they mentally ill? You're 21 and they treat you worse than if you're 12. Very odd.But I guess it's their house & their rules. You're an adult and need to find some friends at college to house share with and get a part time job.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 26, 2015, 07:33:06 pmnah tons of parents do this shit. i hear it from alot of people. basically a parent will get "mob bossy" once in a while and demand some kind of tribute, its up to you not to fold.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:41:29 pm
content: The Art of Electronics is a must have book if you work with electronics. Yes my parents are like that. I like what i do and i like what i learn and create. And so what if im not best at maths. No im not ill in all waysBut i must find the way to fix this.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:41:50 pm
content: the issue with your room is a tough one though, i am not sure how to deal with that. its awfully controlling to tell you what you can have in your room...why do you ask?now that I think about it, your parents sound a bit like some psycho motherfuckers if they wont let you keep your own property in your room.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:43:50 pm
content: basically you need to act like a politician/intelligence agency

author: Aleksandar B.
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:45:28 pm
content: Some things I did, or would consider doing:-Stand up to your parents. Tell them to go to hell, or worse. I did this countless times. They were always pissed at me and didn't talk to me for a few days/weeks, but when they cooled off they realised that I had a point and caved in. In my experience, this works not only with parents but with anyone with a typical Balkans attitude. With normal people, you can have a conversation, but with these sort of people you just need to step down to their level. People that are not from the Balkans won't understand this,-Suck it up for a year or two until you graduate,-My brother dealt with the stress of living with our parents by exercising 3 times a day for 2 - 3 hours each time,-Find a job (doesn't have to be an engineering job, I did physical labour just so I can be more financially independent. There is always a need for physical labour because most people find it degrading), and find some flatmates and live with them. There are always students that are financially bad standing and are looking for flatmates. In my country these people live in rented houses where 5 or 6 persons live in the same house, each one has his own room, but share the kitchen and the bathroom. You could easily set up a lab in a room like that, next to your bed and closet.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 07:50:07 pm
content: I notice there is a trend here, with the "iron curtain" parenting regime lolnot as bad as chinese but it will turn you into a fucking bulldog

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 08:45:15 pm
content: Talk to your brother and his wife, get them onside, tell them you want to be a professor in electronics and ask if they will help you with your parentsIf that doesn't work tell them you are considering a career in Nuclear Weapons and can you build a bomb in their yardJust kidding.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 08:57:18 pm
content: Happens all the time...http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-nuclear-reactor-angelholm-2011-8?IR=T

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 09:02:55 pm
content: Are your parent religious by any chance? You should know it's very hard change the minds of religious people.But threatening to leave the house might give them a warning that they must accept you, with your occupation, to keep you close. Assuming a regular parent-child relationship exists.Oh and: don't build a clock.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 10:06:13 pm
content: @Jeroen3, yes they are. That is what I ment when I said that they are Hard minded. Parents from Balkans are special kind of people. If you do what they say, then it is OK; If you work agains them, then you must work by your self.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 10:34:32 pm
content: My parents used to freak out a lot about electrocution and the cost with no income,How I fixed it a bit was working with lower voltages (saying like a car battery was what stuck) and finding simple jobs to turn some kind of income, try asking a courier company if they have any GPS's with faulty power connector's that you could attempt to fix for less than a new unit, they always damage the plugs...Also yeah, don't tell them the price of things unless you can explain its value to you in there terms, e.g. that fancy new oscilloscope, to them it is a microwave oven, if you find simple jobs then stuff like a power supply and soldering station are to help do those jobs faster and easier,

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 10:55:08 pm
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 06:22:02 pmWow, that's cheap for a house. Here in the UK a small house will cost five times that!Whether it's affordable depends on your salary though.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:03:45 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 26, 2015, 07:33:06 pmI'm not so sure since universities teach the *science* of electronics. I'm currently working my way through AOE3 and it is quite clear that they are skimping quite heavily over much of the details (math, derivations etc). In order to understand everything in detail, 3rd party sources are needed. Luckily, we now have the Internet so everything is there if one care to look it up. A college education will give the scientific foundations that most people will not bother learning by themselves. Having that said, most people have forgotten most details of their college education after 20 years...

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:10:05 pm
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on September 26, 2015, 11:03:45 pmFor me (as a former math&physics student) it's a good part, since I can have fun and do the math myself (something that I can't do in my daily job)Good equivalent of doing the newspaper crosswords.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:32:44 pm
content: Ignore your parents as much as you can and work on high power lasers. Maybe ask on this forum for some electronic religious icon ideas, maybe an electronic god will change their minds. Approach a local church and see if you can do anything for them.I do not know what religion they are but if Christian, maybe a Jesus with blinking LED eyes(sorry I do not know if this is sacrilegious - if so I apologize)How about make a statute that will answer back? In ancient time priests would use tricks to get people to donate more money. So ask a local priest if there is any electronic things he could use to increase their income or help them. This could be as simple as an intercom. Seems an arduino could do a lot of things for a church.But again ignore your parents and do not let them get under you skin.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 11:55:37 pm
content: Careful there ez24, religion is taken seriously in the Balkans. One of them would love a tacky laser powered icon while the other would chop your head off for even drawing a picture or graven image, yet they worship the same god apparently, just different messengers.Of course we have our own nutters even with the same god and messenger but different versions of religion in the British Isles.ETA: ...and of course now "the troubles" are getting old, we have a new batch of feckin' islamofascist terrorists to deal with. Sheesh.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 12:26:14 am
content: HiNot sure if this can help you but you might be able to get a loan (and then get out) via Kiva. I loaned $25 for someone in Albania to buy a computer and $25 for someone also in Albania to buy a cow.I searched Kiva for students studying electronics asking for an educational loan and found only one and he was in Peru. So you would be in a minority if you can get one.I just would not say it is to escape your parents. Be more diplomatic on the request.I just checkedhttp://www.kiva.org/lend?sortBy=newest#/?perPage=20&sortBy=newest&countries[]=and I do not see Croatia. Contact Kiva and see if you can help set up your country to get loans. Maybe you could contact your parent's priest and work with him and a local bank to set something up. How could your parents not love you then.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 12:45:29 am
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 06:22:02 pmIf you are 21 your parents should be able to understand you can make your own decisions. Are you still going to school or are you just at home all day. If the latter is the case I think they want you to go out and find a job!

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 12:51:42 am
content: jobs dont always help with this as much as you think because parents still want you to "save" when you are living with them lol. you need to cook books etc

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 01:15:21 am
content: I'll try to keep it short and sweet, non denominational and stay away from ethnic/racial/cultural/geographic stereotypes or characterizations.Dealing with family situations is hard, complicated,irrrational, down right crazy where doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason will even sometimes bring about the expected result.All this without attempting to involve people's experiences from different religious denominations. different ethnic/racia/cultural geographic backgrounds.I believe your best bet in your situation is to talk to your brother.He already knows your parents. He knows you, he knows the situation and all the baggage that applies to it.The important thing is not to come up with a "solution" that puts you in a worse situation than the problem it was supposed to solve.And remember no matter what you decide to do, make sure you are putting your faith on your ability to make the right choice instead of taking someone else's word for it.It's easier to live with your own mistakes than other people'.---edited for spelling

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 02:28:14 am
content: How populous is your location... big enough to find people to make a hackerspace?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 02:45:25 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 27, 2015, 02:28:14 am+1

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 02:53:02 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 26, 2015, 07:33:06 pmIf you are still living off your parents at 21,you have no cause to whinge about how badly done by you are.I'd been working for 5 years by then.Why not buy an electric heater?---OK,they aren't near as good as a "furnace",but they cost a lot less.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 03:05:39 am
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 07:41:29 pmI've never read "The Art of Electronics"--in fact,I'd never heard of it until I joined this forum,so "must have"---No!Do you still have Libraries in your country?That is how we got to look at books we couldn't afford,back in the day----& we couldn't afford a lot of things!!OK,you have to return them,but they are not in huge demand,so you can probably take them out multiple times.Another way to get good Electronics texts is to look out for a University book sale,when they get rid of older textbooks---the information is still good,but not the particular one the "suits" want you to use.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 03:21:05 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 27, 2015, 02:53:02 amMight want to take a look at his country flag before you post comments like that.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 04:03:02 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on September 27, 2015, 03:21:05 amYeah, there are a huge number of countries in the world where unemployment rate for young adults is absolutely, cripplingly obscene. In such circumstances, blaming the character of an individual, or even a generation is, well, it's many things, stupid among them.Perhaps rather than insulting the OP, feel fortunate that for choosing parents, or at least their country of residence, better than he did.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 05:28:08 am
content: Quote from: eas on September 27, 2015, 04:03:02 amIndeed,yes,but the young adults in those countries (which to some extent,includes Australia) mainly try their level best to help their parents,rather than criticise them on the Internet.Yes,I had good parents---could they have paid for me to go to College,plus buy me expensive equipment ?,No!They went through The Great Depression,which makes the present situation look like a "minor blip".Many people who experienced that never "caught up" again,even 20 years after it was over.Jobs were more plentiful in Australiain 1959when I started to work,than now,but they didn't pay much,certainly not enough for my Dad to subsidise 4 years at Uni for me.I would have loved to not go to work,but it wasn't an option,there was no Government assistance to go to Uni,so only the relatively wealthy could go.All the Croatian guys that I knew had a very strong work ethic,& went to work as soon as they could,to help out their parents,like most people of my generation.I'm not saying us Old Farts were better,I'm just pointing out that we had to accept the situation,just as he has to.When the OP has his EE Degree,will he complain that his Employer doesn't buy him the latest & greatest in Test Equipment?

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 07:46:32 am
content: For non-constructive

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 08:25:49 am
content: You should see the moviehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0132477/, which is based on a true story. See it with your parents. Maybe they will see the light.Parents don't always understand. In 1976 there was a total eclipse here, but I was not allowed outside because I was not trusted not to look at the sun and go blind. All I wanted to do was use a pinhole to project the image onto a piece of paper. A once in a lifetime opportunity. I was extremely disappointed.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 03:03:12 pm
content: After reading all your answers,here is me again.My parents give as much as they can, im not here to criticise, but to ask. Im helping them as much as i can, but studying in anothercountry is much harder for them. Im happy with the equpment that I have, it makes the work go faster and makes good results.I always say that older pople lived in different time where " World " wasnt that corrupted. In Cro we have libraries but in my part Norththey dont have specilal part for " Science (maths,chemistry,etc.) ". About the " The Art Of Electronics " i like books more than Internet,they give mi more precise data and much quicker, because i know where to look. I have an PDF, but when Im working on something i losetime rather than gain it. You may think that im just judging my parents and i may be spoiled, but i like to work and give good results (only in maththey are lower) .

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 06:08:41 pm
content: IMHO this is not a country, ethnic or religious problem. This thread makes me remember some kids/people who had/have parents which had no clue what their kids where up to while tinkering with electronics and computers and thought everything lead straight to mayhem and missery. Always nagging and bickering.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 06:53:22 pm
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 05:18:19 pmDid the guy really say that?Time to learn him the lesson that menaces like that could end up in a few months hospital.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 07:31:21 pm
content: I was lucky enough that my parents didn't look much into what I was doing when they knew they knew nothing about it. They could see that I would sometimes fix either my, their or their friends' stuff that repair guys said were unrepairable so I imagine they understood I had an idea of what I was doing (not always correct obviously)... which meant that I could be happily playing alone with mains voltage at about 13 (they didn't actually know, of course).I used to charge a big high voltage cap I scavenged from a dead powerful photo flash in the morning (using 2 model train transformers back to back, for some unknown reason I was clever enough to think it would be wiser to use that as a separation / current limit just in case), go to school and then impress the other kids by making a loud bang by shorting it on a metal trash bin (that still had the "welding" marks 15 years later last time I went there, I doubt anybody knows where that came from). Later used that same cap and setup to simulate a gunshot for a theatre play...When parents replaced their stereo from the 70s in 95 or so I scavenged the amp/speakers from it to get some nicer sound in my room, it was an "integrated" stereo in a wooden box but the different functions (radio, cassette, turntable, amp) were all on separate PCBs so it was "pretty easy" to get just what I needed. I separated the the amp, power supply and of course the cool looking Vu-meters and put that in a cardboard box. That served me for a few more years.The saddest part is that life experience sucks, and now I'm trained and "old" I pretty much wouldn't dare to do any of that anymore. Those were the best times of my life and I really miss them.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 07:45:07 pm
content: mzdenkov, your first priority now should be to complete your EE studies. This is your ticket for being independent and setting the rules in your own home. Your hobby is nice but is secondary now.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 07:59:31 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 27, 2015, 07:45:07 pmI agree with you.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 08:04:20 pm
content: Crisis means opportunity (I have friends that were your age in Serbia in 1997/8) in a strange way.Right now, people will fix stuff that they would normally change. Most of broken electronics is connectors, power supply and capacitors.Even if you hardly win anything, try to fix stuff in your neighbourhood, their church etc... When their friends start praising you, the tune will change.My parents took my drawing and general tinkering as a nuisance until one summer (age 14) I was cleaning VHS heads at a video club, helping a cycling shop design custom parts and installing sound gear for parties for a combined 200 Francs a day, around 650 Euros a month.That's nothing in 2015 money, but that was a lot in 1993ish for a teen.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 09:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on September 27, 2015, 06:53:22 pmI'll give you my oscilloscope when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

author: Electric flower
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 05:32:28 pm
content: Same problem here, especially since we both come from very patriarchal generation of parents... i'm often in hustle and my worst experience was when my mother got into cleaning frenzy and she threw away few new transistors, capacitors and about 40€ worth of weller bits (during summer my hour wage is 3$), in the end it was my fault because it all looks the sameand i didn't put them away (lucky I diged trash and found my weller bits)... but i get away with this by telling that it is for school projects and that it is really important.Really looking into moving away from good old folks but it's gonna take a lot of time, it's not just about electronics but things in general, I can't study while I can hear TV all evning and then they wonder why I do all work at night, you can't bang anything at home, being interrupted when working at something every 15mins for some stiupid reason...edit: I'm planning to make a deal with two cool guys at repair shop to use little bit of their space and in exchange they can use my tools and my help when they can't figure out something.. That is what i would do in your situation especially, only thing is that you need to know some people well so you have mutual trust.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:03:41 pm
content: Quote from: Electric flower on September 28, 2015, 05:32:28 pmFinaly someone that understands. My father ther away my precious transformer, i worked hard for him 300VA Multiple secondary windings( it was for an Power Amp)... I understand this, they say that i dont learn as much as i could, but at the night i can only study as you do. My father works at "hydroelectric power plant" and there 2 40MW generators make alot of noise so hes hearing is a little bit destroyed. TV wokrs at high volume, etc.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 27, 2015, 05:28:08 amGo easy on the OP! He is just frustrated at lack of understanding on his parents' part. Also, we have no idea how hard it might be for someone in 20s to buy their own place in their country. Heck, one of my English friend from college still lives with his folks after graduating from a very reputed program (He went to grad school here stateside). and No, he isn't unemployed sitting at home doing nothing; quite the contrary, has a good job at a major university (University College, London).To the OP: unfortunately, its their house, their rules. Just wait it out until you graduate and try to compromise in the meantime.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:33:48 pm
content: To OP - offer to pay rentMaybe your parents are upset that you have $1500 worth of stuff (and they do not)

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:43:56 pm
content: Quote^^^^^is one of the best kept secrets...Yeah, it's "bad" for the economy (real estate brokers hate it, banks hate it, credit card companies hate it, Bill Gates hates it - Bonus!! - ) but there is nothing wrong sharing a cave your with parents instead of having to go out and start digging on the side of a mountain in order to conform to some sort of "independence model".Assuming, among other things, your room in your parents house is not one of those 9x10ft jobs with barely enough room for a bed and a dresser.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 07:46:44 pm
content: QuoteThis brough back memories....My mom attempted to straighten out my room once.She didn't throw anything away but it took me a while to rearrange the mess so I know where everything is

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2015, 09:07:04 pm
content: Well, it happened to me. They actually threw awaymy stuff. Twice.I was 12 or so, so I did not have much $$$ worth of stuff, but those hardly gained components, salvaged by dismantling broken TVs, were my hobby, my passion.The second time I was older, about 17 or so, and I had much more stuff, again lost forever.The situation evolved only after I began my studies; they realised that I actually needed to solder something at home from time to time. I bought my first oscilloscope after my degree (25). If only I could have it before...In a retrospective, I managed to understand my father. He was deeply scared that I could hurt myself with those "wires and stuff" that I had, and he knew nothing at all about electronics/electricity to teach and protect me.To OP: I would think about organizing a maker lab in your city, bringing in your stuff to begin with. A place where everyone can find a good soldering tool and hot air, oscilloscopes and power supplies, and maybe given time also a mill or a 3D printer. Clearly the annual fee has to be calculated accordingly, and the whole thing needs to be managed, but you can transform your passion into a small business, being also totally independent from home.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 07:44:19 am
content: Quote from: bigdawg on September 28, 2015, 07:16:29 pmTheir rules???Their rules have to comply with national rules, and are overrun by people who pay back if their property is damaged.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 11:16:27 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on September 29, 2015, 07:44:19 amOfcourse OP's parents have to comply by "national rules/laws" what did I say to suggest they dont ? All I was saying is that if parents own the house, and are strongly resistant to OP using one of the rooms as a workshop/lab than there is very little OP can do except try to reason with them in whatever way possible.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 12:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 06:41:07 pmHe is 100% right on this point, especially with your passion for electronics, and this is probably what you will tell your own son down the road.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 05:02:58 pm
content: I remember back in my early teens (60's) I had to hide my purchases from Radio Shack from my parents while others in my peer group were hiding alcohol and cigarettes. In the eighties I was traveling a lot in field service. In a phone conversation with my father I told him I got a Comodore computer that I could hook up to the TV in the hotel room so I could practice writing code. He said it I didn't need it for work I shouldn't have bought it. A couple years ago at breakfast out I mentioned I got a $2,500 piece of equipment only 3 years old on ebay for $30 shipped. I had a question about a defective part in it so I called the manufacturer. They said they would fix it for free If I returned it. Got them to send me all the parts for free. Cheap as my parents were, I thought it was a good story. My father just grumbled out, What are you going to do with it?My brother buys a couple airplanes and boats and they don't say shit. Get over it. You are not going to change them. Somewhere out of that gene pool you became you. Be thankful of that.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 05:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on September 29, 2015, 05:02:58 pmNow that is a good story. Now my dad knows nothing about electronics, but the old days down the scrapyards finding bits to fix up cars were good fun. Also, he often found electrical stuff on his own junk raids and bring them home knowing I could fix them! If I went out and bought a brand new car he would have a moan at wasting money, I should have went down the auction with himSo... this $2,500 equipment for $30...?

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2015, 08:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 26, 2015, 06:41:07 pm"The Art of Electronics", 2nd edition, is public domain. You can get it at archive.org. Here's the link:https://archive.org/details/fe_The_Art_of_Electronics_Horowitz_HillThe pdf and djvu versions are great quality with searchable text (not scans), but they are missing chapter 1 "Foundations" (i.e., just 59 pages out of 1100). I think the missing chapter is in the large zip file (of scanned pages of the entire book) but here is a link to it in pdf format (20M download instead of 600M):Horowitz & Hill, Chapter 1 (PDF)I'd recommend you work on your maths, theory and analytical problem solving skills on cold days. Work with pen and paper and on your computer. Get stuck into good textbooks, do lots of problem solving practice, work on your designs. Maybe do some computational modelling work (simulation, design, analysis) as well. Leave the hands on lab work for when you can do it without stressing about your parents and/or freezing your butt off. Good luck!Edit:Just read through the rest of the posts, and see you have a PDF copy of the book already. I'll leave the links here anyway in case they're useful for someone else looking for the same info. I know there is nothing like a real ink on paper book but an electronic book is still a lot better than no book at all.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 01:22:36 am
content: Sounds like a crappy situation. I would definitely try to start saving for a place even if it's a complete dump, you can fix it up over time. Even if it means having to sell some stuff you don't use that often. But you do need income first so you'd only really be able to actually do that once you're done school. But just look on the bright side if you're almost done at least you're close to a point where you can start thinking about moving.Reminds me of when I still lived at my parents', they go to bed at like 9pm, my night has practically not even begun by then, so I'd be up till 2am or even 4am coding or doing other stuff on the computer, and they'd get mad if they got up and saw I was still up. To them, I was doing nothing important and it was just games. I imagine electronics is even harder considering you need more room and stuff.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 08:10:46 am
content: mzdenkov,you parents weren't born old.A terrifyingly short time ago,they were youngThey probably wanted to travel & enjoy themselves.Instead,they lived under Communism,then there was the breakup of "Yugoslavia" into separate countries,then the War,then the Global Financial Crisis.In that time they had similar experiences to my parents & my wife's parents.They know just how suddenly life can change for the worse,& they want you to get through your studies,so as to maximise the chance of your financial security.You mentioned $1500 worth of Electronic equipment-----did you work part-time to make the money for this,or did your parents pay for it?Many people who have worked their whole life in Electronics would have a hard time justifying spending that much on equipment.I haven't been on this forum for a couple of days,because the laptop charger lead broke (low volt side),I have now repaired it in my lab/ham shack in the "closed in" patio of our house.It is cold in the winter & hot in the summer---not near as cold as your country,but in the summer we get temperatures in the very high 30s Celsius,& sometimes up in the low 40s.The temperature is pleasant at the moment,but the room is full of furniture & Mover's cartons belonging to my daughter & her Partner,who have been living with us for the past 6 months.My "Lab" is reached down a corridor between boxes.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 08:15:56 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 30, 2015, 01:22:36 amThe magical hours between 22 and 02 where the productivity of coding is at it's highest.Just don't shower at 0300 hours, then they'll get mad.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 08:29:53 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on September 30, 2015, 08:15:56 amHaha yeah I remember having to tipy toe down stairs just to go to the bathroom LOL. My mom was not too bad, she sleeps like a rock, but my dad would wake up if I drop a pen on the carpet floor. Though sometimes he would snore really loudly too. I can confirm 60hz coming out of the sub woofer makes that stop.Had to be quick about closing the lights and pretending to be in bed after pulling that off.So glad I'm in my own house now. I'm regularly up till 4am and can make all the noise I want.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 08:31:00 am
content: Quote from: bigdawg on September 29, 2015, 11:16:27 amSo if in your logic parents have the right to destroy a kid's oscilloscope that sits in his room, that kid has the right to destroy the parent's car that stands in the garage.You are wrong on what "owning the house" means. There is nothing like the right to throw things away from somebody else. And if you morally or emotionally think parents have that right because it's their kid or their house or their room, you are wrong. The kid has his address on the same spot, and that gives him pretty much the same rights as the parents, in what means owning books/radio/entertainment/studymaterial and expieriencing life in a human way in the way he chooses himself.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 09:27:14 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on September 30, 2015, 08:10:46 amoI saved some money from scholarship. Somethings came from " hand to hand " market.Edit: Grandparents also gave me some money. Or I bought f.e STM Nucleo for 8€ and sold it for 11. Or made somethingfor 15€ and again sold for 20€Quote from: vk6zgo on September 30, 2015, 08:10:46 amThe same here.. I am night bird i can work all night, but during the day im other man.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 09:43:08 am
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 30, 2015, 09:27:14 amIs there a possibility to get a little room at your grandparents, and put your scope there?Show them what it can do, they will be amazed.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 10:27:32 am
content: It is not possible, but my dad is against me to move there(I've mentioned that few weeks ago but it that happened this post wouldn't exist). He's a good person and dad who cares alot, but he's standing beheind his words. His no is NO. As someone on this post said, I'll have to live with this until i have my Diploma, and after that move. As it looks for now i'll have to live with this problem.After all, how to explain old people what is sinusoidal signal on the scopeFor now my ill work in my room( winter ) and at the other part of year use that " cold " room where i have all( all connected to one long cable ) ill need to call an electrician to mount some power plugs to the other wall.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 11:51:56 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 27, 2015, 06:08:41 pmWhen I was a teenager, there was a hit song in Australia by a British group called Yellow Dog called Just One More Night. At the end of this song there is a telephone that rings for a short time with the Australian (British?) cadence without any other sounds. Whenever I was in my bedroom and the song was playing on the radio, I would greatly increase the volume just when the ring came one, timed perfectly. As I also tinkered with electronics and CB radio, Mum thought I was hacking the public telephone system in my bedroom and got a bit upset, but whenever she investigated the room, there was no telephone to be found. But she would not believe me when I said it was just a song on the radio. It was a fun gag that went on for about a month until the DJ's got tired of this crappy songHacker... and proud of it.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2015, 09:24:54 pm
content: Bitcoin mines use a lot of power and can heat a room

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 07:35:07 am
content: Quote from: mzdenkov on September 30, 2015, 10:27:32 amDon't "wait".If you are the kind of guy that complies to this kind of unreasonal oppression, you will sure find another ruler by then, and other "sad" rules to live with.Is your dad really against moving there? Didn't see that coming.Quote from: mzdenkov on September 30, 2015, 10:27:32 amBe inventive. Show initiative. With "Is there a possibility to get a little room at your grandparents, and put your scope there?" I wasn't waiting for your excuses and explanation.What's the things he does understand? Money/Status/Lawnmowers?Tell your story to someone who:has a big car/is a professor/works on lawnmower electrical circuitryand invite the man home to tell your dad what electronics means.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2015, 11:16:38 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 01, 2015, 07:35:07 amGalenbo, I dont understand the kind of advice you are giving out to OP. I think OP has a good attitude about the whole thing, and its perfectly reasonable to wait until he graduates to find a job and move out. Thats what most kids here do; the moment you want greater independence than while living in your parents home; you save up, get a job and move out to your own place.Some parents can have a greater Laissez-faire attitude than others, but the bigger picture still is that once you grow up, living under your parents roof is more of a privilege rather than obligation on their part; and that privilege comes with strings attached whether we like it or not. There is no point getting all worked up about something like this.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 08:59:19 am
content: Happy for you there is still TV, and you like the channels that are on it.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2015, 05:08:40 pm
content: Another strategy:Do you play or study music of any kind? If you do and are supported in that, you could find a way to connect music study with electronics.For instance:- Show the music waveform on the oscilloscope- Explain the concept behind adding sine waves to produce a different waveform- Show the effect of filter circuits on soundThere are a lot of experiments that could connect the two. It might make the electronics more approachable.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 02:06:13 pm
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on October 02, 2015, 05:08:40 pmI did that, but with no effect. Father said ill see that later but he never did.I made simple AM transmitter using 12MHz carrier from AVR(oscillator), and played the ode of joy on the radio.EDIT: I've tried to explain how that transmitter works. END OF EDIT;I was using scope(+FFT) on it.. I'll quote him: " The kids that go to primary school can make that too " (he said something like that).Another thing is, he lives in a lie and says that many kids know more than me( I know that his colleagues lie( he did the same to them, when he wanted to cover the real truth,he said that i finished every collage curse with good grades, but i didnt) ).

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 03:47:25 pm
content: @mzdenkov: You live in a relatively conservative corner of Europe (I know, because I was born in the 'hood). Your parents are just doing what they believe is best, rightly or wrongly. Your circumstances cannot be helped. You're not Linus freefall from merry old tax-funded highly-educated Finland. But most of that does not matter.The best science and engineering happens between one's ears, and as along as one has food and shelter, no one can stand in the way of that. Just keep at it. Like I said before: learn to work with pen and paper while hands-on lab work is off limits --- bit of "DaveCad" perhaps, but also working through "Art of Electronics" end of chapter exercises and doing the same with other great electronics textbooks.Solid theoretical knowledge goes a long long way. In these great big electronics academic textbooks, all the exercises and end-of-chapter problems seem laborious and tedious while you do them, but by doing them you are building up practical knowledge that will go over your peers' heads who were too lazy to do them, and you will dazzle prospective employers (should you need any) with the depth of your understanding. But even if you're just in it for the love of the thing, problem solving is where you really learn the material in those great books.Good luck!S