Hi there I'm VERY new should I get lots of protoboard.  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: oojava
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 02:16:18 am
content: So most things I have built have been on bread boards, and not suitable for real use or anything other then looking nice on the bench..So seeing alot of Dave's videos made me second guess what i thought would be my obvious next step.In his videos(or at least the ones I have seen) it seems he is always using a custom pcb and never uses protoboard.So seeing this I started looking into getting custom pcbs made and started to see the price and well its a bit outta the question for me.. (http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/small-batches-pcb.html<I think it says $95 per 5cmx5cm for a one off thing I think thats a bit much.)So I went back to looking at the standalone protoboard and I was wondering what you guys would look for in a bulk protoboard buy.After ~3mins on eBay i found this and it seems to be great for the money.. (not sure how to link it with the [ ebay ] thingy)http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-DIY-Prototype-Paper-PCB-Universal-Experiment-Matrix-Circuit-Board-5x7cm-US/130908941049?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D366313743545509186%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D360643642257%26so is this something I should get tons of (free shipping is king) and for $6 per 20 I could stock up a bit or am I going to be disappointed by something I don't know about..(mainly the word paper in the title confuses me and is making me seccond guessing buying a few of this)So in short I guess I'm just asking what is a "paper pcb"?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 02:19:28 am
content: Quote from: oojava on August 06, 2013, 02:16:18 am"Small batch", but still "batch".Thisis what you want.But protoboard is also very useful. I'm not a big fan of breadboards. Nasty messes of parasitic crap. Solder, solder, solder. Protoboard is perfect for that."Paper PCB" = phenolic paper instead of fiberglass. Cheap "crap", but still quite usable for a prototype. I use tons of it. Easy to cut, easy to drill (you can get the boards blank too and etch your own), just a bit flexible (no good really for surface mount).For one-off boards, I usually etch my own if it's simple. I use ITEAD if it's a complex board or if I need multiple copies. And I prototype on protoboard. (And if you get into higher-frequency stuff - or both, a flat piece of unetched, undrilled copper clad PCB is good for prototyping as well, just use it as a ground plane and solder right to the surface.)

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 02:50:03 am
content: I've never quite figured out how one is supposed to "prototype" on those "pad-per-hole" boards. The copper isn't really close together enough to bridge with just solder. You can string wires from hole to hole, but then I'm not sure what the advantage of having the copper is in the first place.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 02:55:53 am
content: The copper gives you something fixed to solder to for physical support...

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:23:57 am
content: Quote from: oojava on August 06, 2013, 02:16:18 amEtch your own, it's (relatively) easy and (sort of) fun.Blank copper clad board is available on ebay and other places (if you happen to be a kiwi, *cough*checkmysignature*cough*), most people get started with toner transfer using just a clothes iron a laser printer and some old glossy magazine paper, and of course etchant of your choice (many options,even plain old vinegar with some peroxidein a pinch).Once you've tried toner transfer you might like to move on to photo-lithography (and sound cooler) using Dry Film Photoresist or pre-sensitised boards.

author: Jon Chandler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:26:11 am
content: You better check those prices at iTead, Seeed and several others again. A 5cm x 5 cm board is about $10 for ten copies, and a 10cm x 10cm board is about $25 for ten copies. For one-of-a-kind experiments, this is still a bit expensive, but once you have something that works, it's extremely affordable.Some of the Chinese vendors also let you put several designs on one panel. You have to cut them apart yourself but if you get 10 copies of a board each containing several smaller boards, the cost becomes really good.For more information on PCB fab pricing, check out my articlePCB Fabrication Sources

author: oojava
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:46:24 am
content: Thank you all very much with the pcb info will definitely look into getting some custom stuff made. $10 is much cheaper then what I saw when I look but turns out I was just looking in the wrong place.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:49:55 am
content: As for etching my own.... I only do it because I'm a complete cheap-ass. There are many, many things I'd rather spend my time doing if I could afford to have a PCB made every time I wanted a PCB... Andnoit is not fun!

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 05:18:30 am
content: (and DRILLING PCBs is pretty awful, even compared to etching them. Drilling a protoboard-like board would be hell, IMO.)

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 07:49:47 am
content: I always use vero/strip board, I do have a bread board used it once many years ago and found it next best thing to useless so it just sits on a shelf and one day it will find its way to the bin I expect. I have never tried proto board but have tried etching my own circuit boards but found that if the circuit works on Vero board it does not work appreciably better on a printed board so now I just stick with vero if the circuit works well I just make another smaller more compact version a finished board.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 08:35:23 pm
content: I've used most of the prototype construction methods at one point or another. I've become a fan of "Manhattan style" construction. For a beautiful example with photos and explanation (not mine) see here:http://aa7ee.wordpress.com/2011/07/24/the-wbr-a-simple-high-performance-regen-receiver-for-40m-by-n1byt/This style of prototyping is popular among the ham radio crowd, and for RF circuits it has the advantage of keeping everything near a nice big ground plane, to reduce noise. Properly done, it can be beautiful, but mine is usually just functional, not the artwork presented in that link. It also has the advantage of being really easy to follow and debug, since the components and the connections are together on the same side of the board. Some people use a Sharpie or other marker to write notes on the pcb describing test points and such.Manhattan style is too labor-intensive for anything other than one-off prototyping, but for that, it works well. I like it better than perfboard, protoboard, or veroboard, for most purposes. Google the phrase "Manhattan style construction" for more examples and explanation.

author: MatCat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 10:24:16 pm
content: I use tons of the paper board stuff, it's good for quick easy prototyping, a normal solderless breadboard is still useful for quick prototyping too depending on what you are doing, if I am going to do a bit more complex of a board I will usually send it off to ITEAD. If you are doing something like say a radio, I would recommend more to use basic copper clad as a ground plane like previous suggested, really it all matters what you are doing, making a simple AVR circuit? You will pretty much be OK doing it on a breadboard, making a switching regulator, paper board will work well, making am AM radio, use copper clad, want to make a nice clean, tight board with SMD, go with something like ITEAD. I keep a bit of all methods available.

author: cube1us
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 03:57:57 pm
content: For smaller circuits, I'll sometimes do point to point on a plain perf-board. For prototyping larger digital circuits, I sometimes to wire wrap. Seehttp://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/TechTip/wirewrap.htmlfor some info - though I use just plain perf-board instead of tinned pads. I will often run the power with soldered, slightly heavier, wire. For PCB fab, I am just getting into that, and came across GoldPhoenix PCB. They are probably not the cheapest for smaller boards, but they were the cheapest I could find for panels of larger boards or a mix of small and large boards.

author: hlavac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 05:40:00 pm
content: I always etch the prototype boards myself. Presensitized boards, laser printer masks on tracing paper, good UV light source.Its fast (about an hour), cheap (around $2), looks much better and has fewer miswirings than protoboard due to it being created from schematic.

author: Dajgoro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 06:04:51 pm
content: QuoteI got those.I am always building something weird, and I almost never have a schematic, so I don't know how it is going to look like until is done.I really like those cheap paper pcb-s, if you build your experiments and if it doesn't work you just toss it away, and if it works it will be a nice and solid contraption.PCB batches and etching is always better, but then you have to know what are you doing, and you must be sure that it is going to work.Edit: I even experimented with moder smd devices on such boards, but for being able to do that I got some sop to dip adapter boards such as this one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PC-SO28-SOP28-SSOP28-TSSOP28-to-DIP28-Adapter-0-65-1-27mm-Converter-PCB-Board-/251295354879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a825ecfff

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 06:09:07 am
content: Much as I like the ease of component swapping on a breadboard, it gets difficult beyond a certain point. It is easy to knock a component loose, or entirely off when moving around. As the density increases, it gets harder and harder to spot where something might have came loose. (Things are working, and moving one wire to a different position and oops, things go haywire - signs of something got loose or knocked out wire moving that wire.)I like those "paper" protoboards - until I make a mistake. Correcting it is far more difficult than correcting breadboard mistakes. Particularly with cheap proto-boards, the damn copper pads come off the board easy - way too easy. I just got to the 70-80% completion mark with this one board, then I dropped the board by mistake and a pair of jumper pins came loose - still soldered to the pads but the pads are no longer glued to the board. Now I have to reroute things so I can find a new spot, a spot with pads still glued on, and remount that pair of jumpers.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 05:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on August 06, 2013, 05:18:30 amWell not so much if you use one of these:http://www.amazon.com/SE-Drill-Spiral-Spring-1-0mm/dp/B001RZUL0Q/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1376416066&sr=8-10&keywords=hand+drillBack at the high school HAM club it was Sharpies for masking, iron(III)chloride for etching, and a hand drill like this for drilling. We did the vias with the surplus length of legs cut off components.Okay I admit it, it was a chore.