ChipQuik - A joke, or actual a useful product? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 08:01:30 am
content: I found this Silicone:http://www.chipquik.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=495011The description is at one point so useless, that i doubt, that this product is useable at all.Highlighting materials that never appear in electronics, but at the same time putting those materials that are often used in electronics and that have also some major differences in their adhesion properties into one word?I would not mind is this product would have been pretty cheap...Anyone knows a good source of what glue to use for different tasks and where to get it for electronics?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 08:59:38 am
content: Not sure what your problem is with this product. Silicone sticks to different materials; some of them are commonly used in electronics, some are not. So what?Whether the Chipquick stuff is much better than the silicone you can buy at the local DIY store, I don't know. But I don't have reason to doubt the claims in the product description.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 09:10:20 am
content: If you want a label for a neutral cure silicone specially made for your electronic product, 3M can probably do that for you:https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/about-3m/research-development/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 06:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 12, 2023, 08:01:30 amIf you look at the product category, you’ll see that it consists of two products: oneelectronics gradesilicone that’s expressly safe for electronics, and this one, theindustrial gradesilicone, which “bonds to a wider variety of substances”.So… maybe instead of instant outrage, you might try looking at context in the future, as it often provides the information you need.(Though I freely admit that as a company, chipquik sucks at product descriptions. For example, good luck figuring out why you should choose a particular one of their many soldering fluxes over another one with practically identical specs and description. And no, they didn’t respond to my email when I asked…)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 09:35:29 pm
content: It looks like the only difference between the chipquik electronics and industrial grade, is the viscosity:Viscosity: 10.9 x 10^3 mPa.s (Malcom @ 10 RPM/25C) industrial self levelingViscosity: 22.4 x 10^3 mPa.s (Malcom @ 10 RPM/25C) electronics self levelingThen the regular "electronics" grade stuff they don't even give you the viscosity of it.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 09:43:53 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on May 12, 2023, 09:10:20 amOooh, subtle. I like it.Tim

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 09:55:20 pm
content: did you ever use it? Its like measuring the viscosity of a jello cup. Not sure how useful it is for a company to recreate the pitch drop experiment.The product is great btw

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 10:02:16 pm
content: ChipQuik is a brand, most known for their low melting point solder alloys that are used to make rework easier. This product is a neutral cure silicone that is safe to use on electronics, I see nothing to suggest it isn't a good product.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2023, 11:18:32 pm
content: ChipQuik stuff is all great! All a bit pricey, but excellent quality.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 05:42:53 am
content: hardware store silicone cost penies per bucket and no difference in propertiesused grey hard rubbery type silicone, sticks to any surface'electronics' silicone might be weaker so its possible to get it offthere is HV breakdown silicone and price would be reasonable then

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 08:29:08 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 12, 2023, 09:35:29 pmThe fact that they explicitly state that the industrial one bonds with more materials makes me think it’s not just the viscosity that’s different.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 08:34:04 am
content: Quote from: strawberry on May 13, 2023, 05:42:53 amWell that’s certainly not correct. Most hardware store silicone is the acetoxy cure type, which releases acetic acid (vinegar) when curing. This will cause corrosion of electronic components, so must not be used. There are “neutral cure” types at the hardware store, but that’s still no guarantee they’re compatible with electronics due to other additives.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 09:57:57 am
content: Quote from: strawberry on May 13, 2023, 05:42:53 amDon't spread nonsense please. Most hardware store silicone is corrosive to many metals.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 10:03:29 am
content: ChipQuik as a brand I've always been a bit weary of, because I had issue with their solder paste.But i've used the black and white electronic silicone (from digikey) and never had any problems with it.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 01:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 13, 2023, 09:57:57 amread label. ChipQuik = 20g/9usd = 1g/0.45usd regular RTV = 300g/16usd = 1g/0.053usd not included tube loss

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 01:33:12 pm
content: lol, and you are lucky to be able to use a tube of chip quick before it dries up wheras the store silicone its not possible to use until it dries up unless your are installing bath tubs, its hardly relevant IMO

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 01:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on May 13, 2023, 10:03:29 amYou just had me going and look what brand that rubbish solder is, i have recenty used. It is almost as bad as the worst i ever had. Its brand is: CHIPQUIK lol! (RASW.020 2OZ).What silicone did you use? How does it adhere to other meterials?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 09:48:00 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 12, 2023, 11:18:32 pmI've only used their various fluxes so far, and they are all great. Can't comment about the rest of their products.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 10:06:02 pm
content: I once insulated some mains AC traces on a pcb with "vinegar smell during cure" type silicone. Pulled it off many years later and the copper traces underneath were still shiny. And I've used plenty of it over the years for many things and have never seen any evidence for corrosion. I remain unconviced it's a problem.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 10:16:26 pm
content: I saw one board someone tried potting with the stuff. It was covered in white and green crusty deposits. The solder and copper were practically gone.It's entirely possible that a small amount, on clean metal, in open air, cures fast enough not to cause visible corrosion. The surface oxide on the metal absolutely will have reacted and become acetate. Whether that's a problem for future corrosion, given humidity or condensation, I don't know.Tim

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 11:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 13, 2023, 01:50:06 pmI wasn't using it as an adhesive, I was adding blobs between TH parts to other nearby parts to prevent any vibration.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 03:58:58 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on May 13, 2023, 09:57:57 amIt must vary a lot depending on the region. In Australia, neutral cure silicone is super common and imo the most stocked type in a hardware store.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 07:48:05 am
content: Quote from: Psi on May 13, 2023, 11:03:29 pmI did not ask for using it as an adhesive, i was asking about the property of how good it will stick to other materials (called adhesion).

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 08:17:03 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 14, 2023, 07:48:05 amAnd Psi explained to you that he did not really evaluate the adhesion strength, since it was not relevant in his application. (Where the silicone blobs are jammed in between the through-hole parts.)

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 12:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 14, 2023, 08:17:03 amI didnt ask you anything about that....

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 12:39:56 pm
content: Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful since you seem to struggle with comprehension problems. Never mind.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 05:13:19 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 14, 2023, 12:39:56 pmSome people seem to struggle with comprehension, and others seem to struggle with perception...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 05:34:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 13, 2023, 08:34:04 amI see people parroting this often, but I use regular acidic silicone on electronics all the time and have for decades, I've never had it cause corrosion that I can recall. YMMV but it has always worked for me.It certainly doesn't cost "pennies per bucket" though, the last time I bought some it was over 10 bucks for the sort of tube that goes in a caulking gun.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 05:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 14, 2023, 07:48:05 amIf you're asking about adhesion that certainly implies you're using it as an adhesive. Adhesion is literally what makes something an adhesive

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 08:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 14, 2023, 05:38:54 pmSo then if a PCB manufacturer asks about the adhesive properties of a soldermask on copper, it would imply, that he is going to use it to glue copper parts together?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2023, 11:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 14, 2023, 08:22:07 pmNo, but if it has adhesion properties then it is an adhesive. That doesn't mean it is necessarily going to be used to glue parts together, it can mean simply that it has adhesion.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 12:37:37 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 14, 2023, 05:34:07 pmThis is what being ripped off by monopolistic chain stores looks like.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 04:16:48 am
content: I mean, a gallon pail of silicone isn't exactly cheap either. It goes down some in quantity, but there is very good reason why companies don't like to pot things if they don't have to.Tim

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2023, 04:32:31 pm
content: getting into chemistrycompanies buy in bulk. curing time will delay production

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 09:25:44 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 14, 2023, 11:43:35 pmI had a look in a dictionary, because this is not my native language:"adhesive" (noun)a sticky substance that is used for joining things together, usually permanently.Source:https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/adhesivePlease learn some english to not spread to much nonsense.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 09:42:27 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 16, 2023, 09:25:44 amPlease learn to research your facts not just from a language dictionary. To keep things manageable, why don't you start here:https://www.britannica.com/technology/adhesiveAnd please learn some modesty and manners, not to embarrass yourself too much.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 04:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 16, 2023, 09:42:27 amWould you please keep your opinion to yourself? Facts? Go fact check yourself!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 05:17:47 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 12, 2023, 08:01:30 amMaybe if you had been clear about your intended use, this silly argument could have been avoided. You most certainly asked about glue (=adhesive) in your original post. The only uses of Silicone in electronic, that come to mind at the moment, are for gluing / strengthening attachments, eg. Electrolytic capacitors, mechanical damping, and sealing.At the moment, this just leaves you looking foolish.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2023, 08:33:03 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 16, 2023, 05:17:47 pmWhy should i be clear about an intended use, when there is actually none???Yes that sentence might be not well formed, but "different tasks" should imply, that there is not a particular intented use. Dont you think so?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 12:57:15 am
content: Well if you have no intended use then all that really needs to be said is that ChipQuik is a reputable company that makes quality products, whether their products are well suited for you depends on your application, which you're welcome to ask about when you have one.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 01:30:38 am
content: You guys sure you used silicone on the PCBs? Maybe you used polyurethane or acrylic caulk.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 02:13:09 am
content: Yes I'm sure, I usually use GE clear silicone. I typically avoid latex calk, it's easier to clean up but it shrinks with age.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 03:40:31 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 12, 2023, 08:01:30 amYes

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 06:11:26 am
content: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002BBX3UI paid $6.28 the last time I bought any. That was about a month ago.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 07:13:58 am
content: I actually read the instructions for probably the first time ever. It is aquarium safe, but only after curing which apparently takes between 45 minutes and two hours. I does say: "Do not use on marble. limestone. brass, copper, magnesium, iron, zinc, or galvanized metal." Then there is a sort of sentence fragment: "Hard to bond plastics such as PE, PP, PTFE, PMMA, PC, or PVC." I think they meant to say something about it not sticking very well to those.It seems to me that applied thinly or in small quantities it's probably fine and any damage it's going to do would happen during the first hour or so while it's curing. No, it would not make good potting compound.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 07:16:59 am
content: Quote from: Bud on May 17, 2023, 01:30:38 amJudging from some of the answers i got, i doubt that they know what they use. Its like hit and miss with buying some stuff and it might work or might not. Seems not many care about the properties of a product and if its suitable.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2023, 07:19:44 am
content: Quote from: rdl on May 17, 2023, 07:13:58 amThose disolve or corrode when coming into contact with acid.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2023, 07:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 17, 2023, 07:16:59 amI told you precisely what I use, GE clear silicone caulk. If you doubt that I know what I use then it's because you didn't bother to read what I wrote. I have used it for many years and found it to be suitable for use with electronics, as in small dabs to add support to components or a bit of insulation over high voltage terminals. I would not use it as potting compound and have never suggested that. Nor would I use it in inside a sealed enclosure without allowing it to cure first.This is the stuff.https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Silicone-1-Clear-All-Purpose-Sealant-10-1-oz-2795576/317741904

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2023, 09:42:39 pm
content: I have seen corrosion on items where acetoxy (acetic) cure silicone was used, but no issue when neutral cure was used.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2023, 09:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 14, 2023, 05:34:07 pmI once tried it on bare copper, then torn it off after it cured and got green corrosion underneath.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2023, 09:47:36 pm
content: Neutral cure is a better choice for electronics, but the standard stuff is not the guaranteed problem people often say it is. In small quantities under reasonable conditions it's fine. If you can easily get neutral cure then use that instead.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 12:23:14 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 16, 2023, 04:22:05 pmWow, such arrogance, you admit English is not your first language and then wont allow yourself to be corrected by the English speaking community. You are absolutely wrong in this matter.As eblaster linked:https://www.britannica.com/technology/adhesiveQuoteAnything that bonds/glues/joins to materials is an adhesive and has adhesion properties, a failure to have such a property would prevent it serving it's primary purpose of being an adhesive. Even blu-tack is an adhesive even though we would not consider it a glue, as it has adhesion properties that make it useful for temporally adhering things to other things.This includes your example of solder mask, it is an adhesive that has good adhesion properties for copper and FR4. Even paint is an adhesive and depending on the type depends on it's adhesion properties for different materials such as metal, wood, plastic, cement, etc.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 09:57:41 am
content: Quote from: gnif on May 19, 2023, 12:23:14 amYou may want to read the first sentence in your link... maybe a few times.Soldermask can not be used as an adhesive, since its cohesion properties are rather bad in most situations. Ever heard of that word? I guess not.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 11:10:09 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 19, 2023, 09:57:41 amGosh, you're just a fountain of happiness, aren't you...I've seen some pretty damn solid soldermask. It ranges from somewhat-easily peeled enamels, to whole-ass epoxy resin + filer systems. Seems the stuff usually used by western fabs in production work, usually matte green, is the most tenacious. Enough that I somewhat prefer the weaker material for prototyping, since it's easier to scrape off and make new connections. You can't tell me epoxy resin is neither adhesive nor cohesive.The main thing you can't do with soldermask is fill blind gaps, because it's UV cured. That said, hand-applied mask is often used to cover repairs/bodges, and it does an excellent job spanning over open materials and surfaces.Tim

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 02:17:06 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on May 19, 2023, 09:57:41 amOk...Quote1. For the solder-mask to function, it needs to be held to the PCB and firmly bond to both the FR4 and the copper (and/or gold/tin, depending on plating).2. The solder-mask often contains a pigment held in solution, which it must also bond to.3. Once the epoxy has cured, it needs to remain attached to the PCB and resist separation from it.I wonder if the fact that solder-mask does these things causes it to fall under the "any substance" part.Quote from: eTobey on May 19, 2023, 09:57:41 amI never said it could be used as one, however it IS an adhesive or it would not adhere itself at all to anything, as such it has adhesive properties. Just because it's an adhesive doesn't mean it's made to glue things to other things. It's designed to glue ITSELF to the PCB.Quote from: eTobey on May 19, 2023, 09:57:41 amThe tendency of two or moredifferent moleculesto bond with each other is known as adhesion, whereasthe force of attraction between thesame moleculesis known as cohesion.Seems you have not either then unless copper, fibre glass, and the solder mask are all the same moleculeshttps://byjus.com/chemistry/cohesive

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2023, 05:52:02 pm
content: I don't see what is so complicated about this language concept. An adhesive is something that has the property of adhesion, which is to adhere, these are all forms of the same base word. Usually when one speaks of an "adhesive" they are referring to glue but technically the word is not limited to that use. All glues are adhesives but not all adhesives are glues. Glue is specifically an adhesive substance intended for bonding something to something else.