Musk leaving S.F. Sept. 13th  while local leaders attempt image 'makeover' - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 02:48:54 pm
content: First thoughts here are questions, how can the Forum guidelines stay intact, while discussion of a business decision, of a social media entity, can be discussed, rationally.News this morning is the move, out of the San Francisco headquarters, to be September 13th (Friday the 13th), of social media 'X', formerly Twitter. That's 2 weeks, and so I'm (also) wondering if this headquarters move has had other press coverage, before today ( ? ). Where are they moving to ?Is the 'X' media company moving to a different state, (from U.S. California), that has more favorable business situation, and what are those factors ?I have noticed, a substantial uptick, in 'image' changes, relative to public perception, but curiously seemingly contrasting from past trends (and declarations). These shifts have the 'air' of an image scrubbing 'campaign' although that's my own take. Does anyone here in the EEVBLOG Forum have better details, on plans to move (headquarters)?That could mean some changes in job markets, for good or for bad trends.Obviously, some readers here will indulge in little, short, petty 'snark', about Elon Musk and some perceived need to respond, by trashing Musk, in some way. Limited enough, to still stay under the radar with forum moderators, by nevertheless violating guidelines in principal.I'm attempting to, in light of current 'politics', discuss JUST the social media business, headquarters move, and jobs affected.Thanks, and please don't put heavy political commentary here !

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:04:50 pm
content: Hey Musk: Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out...

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on August 30, 2024, 02:48:54 pmThe more relevant question is whether Twitter/X is expanding operations or consolidating? That would provide a major clue as to where they might be moving to.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:14:38 pm
content: Well, they fired 2/3 of their employees or so. Might have something to do with that ;-)

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:21:44 pm
content: QuoteBet it wont be brazil

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:24:52 pm
content: Google and other major tech companies have been leaving large facilities in San Francisco. People are generally leaving California, but the exits from SF seem to be on a much greater scale than the general exodus.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 03:53:57 pm
content: They are moving to San Jose. It is basically the same, just cheaper rent. There is a ton of available commercial real estate in San Jose area, so I'm guessing he will find the cheapest shack he can find.It is not like some big stand against "bad California", just a normal business decision.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on August 30, 2024, 03:08:31 pmHaving pissed off about 90% of their advertisers, and having tried to sue those ones into advertising on his "free speech platform" (how ironic, given the refusal to advertise is itself speech), I suspect he's leaving the office because they can't afford the rent any more...

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:11:05 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 30, 2024, 04:06:52 pmA more interesting question is why is anyone in these expensive places in the first place? Its understandable to have a modest sized prestige head office in some fancy place, but putting large operations there both directly wastes company money on property costs, and indirectly wastes it by forcing salaries up to cover the high living costs within a reasonable commute.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:20:35 pm
content: Thanks for your thoughts.First thing comes to mind, is Musk could try to lease the old Fremont location, but of course that was a manufacturing operation, moved to Texas.I DO NOTICE, here, there no answers from anyone having more news, that may have come out....A guess, maybe they will move in, next to the Texas Tesla factory....(Oops that's two different organizations).Someone here, couldn't resist making a little snark...that's ok, but moderators maybe dget uneasy. Seems like, we could afford some JOB LOSS, to get rid of the guy making noises about 'free speech'. That's exactly part of my point, initially. We, in the tech world, must take back seat, in the car (no pun), when censorship needs defenders.Right now, I'm attempting to come up with some 'snarky' comment, on where the 'X' headquarters is moving to. I don't know; maybe claim they should 'Move to Boston', but that has no sarcasm value.? Moved to Montana ? (No, that's a Frank Zappa song, lol).

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 04:26:10 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on August 30, 2024, 04:20:35 pmHave you actually read the news? There is literally an email he sent to employees stating that they are moving to San Jose and Palo Alto. And they will be organizing transpiration from SF for the affected people. This can't be cheap or efficient, so I guess they want SF people to quit and expect to find new people in SJ/PA. Commuting to SJ from SF every day is a hell.This is also not very new. This was announced like a month ago.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:02:43 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 30, 2024, 04:06:52 pmAnd major advertisers disbanded their cartelhttps://wfanet.org/leadership/garm/about-garmas soon as X sued them which pretty much confirms what they've done was illegal.QuoteMore like because S.F became an unbearable crime ridden shithole with exorbitant taxes and very high costs of doing business on top of that.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:03:37 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on August 30, 2024, 04:20:35 pmWell there is a meme of US employees assigning a high priority to a good dental care plan.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:06:11 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 30, 2024, 04:11:05 pmBecause you genuinely do find the best staff in these places. It's a vicious or virtuous cycle depending on the way you look at it.But, Elon also hates remote working, forcing staff to come back to the office 5 days per week, so he has no choice to be located there. If he were more liberal like Meta, who are 1-2 days/week in the office and the remainder at home, then he might be able to get the talent and locate further away from the SF bay area.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 30, 2024, 05:02:43 pmLooks like Elon won then. He crushed a small non-profit. Finally winning at something with Twitter.Wonder if the advertisers will come back. Somehow I doubt it. It's bad karma for a company to have a neo-nazi post next to an ad for Cadbury's. But when you fire nearly everyone in your trust & safety team, it's not surprising that this happens.The former Twitter head honcho, Jack Dorsey, actually hated having the trust & safety team as he wanted an open platform. But he realised the same thing Elon will eventually realise, that advertisers ultimately value brand safety over nearly anything else, and if you don't have content moderation, you won't get the big advertisers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 30, 2024, 05:10:06 pmIt wasn't a small non profit, it was run by a bunch of largest advertiser firms.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:12:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 30, 2024, 05:02:43 pmHave you ever been to S.F.? Recently? If not, I suggest you look into the real situation in the city and not parrot news media that has a vested interest in making S.F. seem like a Bladerunner-like dystopia.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:22:06 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 30, 2024, 05:12:58 pmNot all of it dystopian, however Market St where X's office is located is quite dystopian.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:41:03 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 30, 2024, 05:22:06 pmAnd you know that because you've actually been there and experienced it, or because you watched a couple of YouTube videos?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 05:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 30, 2024, 05:10:06 pmNot only that, a trust & safety team prevents the platform to be used as a weapon by foreign nations to spread fake information about health, vaccines, government conspiracies, 5G nuttery, etc with the goal of weakening society. And last but not least, such a team helps to fight outright criminal activities. France arrested the Russian guy who runs Telegram for that reason.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 06:27:13 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 30, 2024, 05:41:03 pmSo you want to say I need to be physically there to confirm if all those stores on a major street are actually closed?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 06:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on August 30, 2024, 05:12:58 pmI was there a few months ago - my only observation was that it seemed rather quiet - not as many people/cars around as I'd have expected to see in a major city on a weekday. The BART transit was also pretty empty for what would be a jam-packed rush-hour in most cities, but maybe this is normal for there?

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 07:35:53 pm
content: I'm surprised he hasn't just gone and found some space for the Twitter team in some spare space on one of his Tesla or SpaceX sites, portacabins in the carpark maybe? My guess, correct me if wrong, is that the twitter team don't need any special equipment, just desks, desktops and a connection to the backend servers (which don't need to be on the same site they work at, and probably weren't at the San francisco offices anyway).

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 07:48:46 pm
content: There is a chance that people will not want to work in a shitty office behind a chain link fence from the factory.There are many cheap places you can setup office. The next issue would be to hire anyone who wants to work out of that office.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 08:15:14 pm
content: Mixing business with different ownership together causes more fiduciary duty questions. Especially considering Tesla is a public company.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 09:25:59 pm
content: Only scanned replies briefly, but here is some thoughts & casual rebuttal:Someone has, here, used the term:'Neo-Nazi Post's. (In Twitter).See what I mean, regarding Forum dialog. I just don't see any way, HOW, flinging a label like that is anything other than a highly political smear....and likely easily disproved (at least by way of free speech)."Have you actually seen the S.F. scene, or actually live there ? " (Arguing about decay and dystopia is a myth).Well,...I've lived nearby.Street pavers and utility workers, nearby, claim to 'not be safe, working' (actual armed robberies preying on construction team members).Local Drug Stores closing madly fast, due to organized retail theft. Yesterday, I observed the ICE CREAM freezer shelves, in local Drug Store: all with LOCKS on the freezer doors. (You need to go find a store manager, now, to unlock the product, so you can purchase).Another now closed Drug Store was one I've used, (and may need to obtain medicine later). Later, then, I'll have to find another pharmacy.Senior citizens now report a newer type of robbery crime, where the victim gets to be 'kidnapped', and driven around to find sources of cash...(From friends or family).Local news no longer report crimes like robbery, home burglary / assaults....What's that about ?I wanted to be discussing JOB markets, like the mention here, that Musk is moving operations down the peninsula, (to San Jose)A technology company moving and effects on JOBS marketplace. How does 'Neo-nazi' posts relate to the biz moving ?San Francisco is very beautiful, and a great mixing culture, from many many parts of the world. But, like I mentioned, the 'image' things seem to be getting lots of attention, lately.Seems like Musk is saying:'Too little, too late'....and isn't swayed by recent 'image' management of home city.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 09:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on August 30, 2024, 09:25:59 pmA picture or it didn't happen... I can imagine this being true in the US though.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 09:43:37 pm
content: People steal stuff because stores let them steal stuff. And then when people do, they have to lock everything. And then it backfires and just forces people into online stores.All those myths that it is legal to steal are just that - myths. Stores actively don't want to pursue those crimes and just let criminals go. They can actually start pressing charges and setting the precedent. Even if resulting fines are not life-ruining, like some people want, just wasting people's time and resources would be enough of a deterrent.Some time ago there was a story (no idea how real) that Target let some woman steal until the total was over the felony level and then pressed charges. Do more of than and make sure it hits the news.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 10:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on August 30, 2024, 09:43:37 pmProbably, but it also says something about decaying society. If people steal from stores, they likely steal from other places and from other people as well. Recently I watched a documentary series called 'how music became free'. The source for the latest music available on internet even before it was released, was an employee at the biggest CD pressing factory in the US. The person claimed he had a right to steal CDs because he wasn't paid well enough. This kind of false entitlement is like a cancer.In the NL you can go to any 'manned' gas station and fill your car before paying. People stealing gas is rare (because it is easy to catch people through the license plate). However, in the south of Europe, it is quite common to have to prepay.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 11:03:24 pm
content: It is more of economic insecurity, since a lot of that stolen stuff gets resold for money. And I guess economic insecurity leads to the decay. I can see how there is more economic issues in an expensive area like SF.And part of the issue caused by the Target itself. They gouged the prices so hard, people can't afford their stuff anymore. They recently had the whole campaign lowering their prices with "new lower price" tags all over the place. Clearly they saw drop off in consumer activity.And from what I understand most of the issues with the San Jose store were due to a homeless encampment nearby. And homelessness is an issue that is present almost everywhere in the US, but high cost of living the Bay does not help. The climate helps too. I know if I'm homeless, I'm making my way to a warmer climate area.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2024, 11:06:01 pm
content: Well, thanks folks, for comments. I've learned that issues here are not about leaving the state (California govt. often gets blame, for companies leaving). So, Musk hasn't decided to pull the 'X' headquarters out of the state, so it's less of a global effect, but more just a smaller 'adjustment' to market changes.Also, many of the employees now living in SF could relocate, although San Jose housing gets crazy expensive as well.But yeah; I don't have much quality access, to news that is basically trustworthy, which is part of why I've had to ask for more clarity.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2024, 07:23:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 30, 2024, 10:54:15 pmI live in California close enough to S.F. to visit it fairly often. Part of the problem has been the relaxation of laws that criminalize shoplifting. The goal of this was to reduce the pressure on local jails and courts, but it's backfired because people know what the limit is (it's something like $900 or $1000--I forget the exact figure) and will take care to steal stuff that adds up to below that limit. It got so flagrant that these laws are being repealed and arrests and prosecutions for shoplifting are increasing again.I live in a fairly affluent suburb and one night a group of people in 69 cars pulled up the Nordstrom's store in a local mall, went into the store, and grabbed whatever they could get their hands on before leaving in their cars. The local police only caught three of them. After that incident, the owners of the mall permanently closed the street that fronted the stores in the mall to prevent this kind of incident. A similar thing happened to an up-scale store in S.F.So what started out as an attempt to decriminalize minor crimes like shoplifting backfired when a certain class of people took advantage of the change in the laws to make money at the expense of business owners (and their insurance companies). Some businesses just gave up and closed stores in areas that passed these laws. Others locked up stuff behind glass and buying any of it requires finding a store employee with a key.This is just one example of people taking advantage of situations at the expense of everyone else. Here's another: not far from me is a road out in the country that is very sparsely populated and dark at night (no streetlights). People use this road to dump all manner of junk, including old appliances, mattresses, old furniture, yard waste, used motor oil, and refrigerators. There's a landfill operation in the same city, but they charge $30 to dump a load of junk, so people dump their junk on the side of that lonely road rather than pay $30.Does this signify a general decline in a society? I think it does.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2024, 07:32:01 pm
content: Quotewe have similar problems here,council introduce charges or restrictions to use the tip,that our council tax is supposed to pay for, to try and save money,and then complain that its costing them 3 or 4 times the savings to clear up after fly tippers

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2024, 07:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on September 01, 2024, 07:32:01 pmUK council refuse sites have weird rules. Most of them won't take tyres. When we moved into this there was a tyre based swing on a tree in the garden. We tried to take the tyre to the council site. They refused it. They said we should go to a tyre dealer. We tried that. None of the tyre dealers would accept it. They would only deal with the disposal of tyres they took off cars while fitting new ones. I was happy to pay a reasonable amount, but nobody wanted to take my money. I think the tyre is still in the corner of the garden somewhere.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2024, 09:26:31 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on September 01, 2024, 07:40:47 pmI sold my old tyres as partworns for 99p on eBay to someone who was clearly a bit desperate for tyres - they had 3mm on them so still legal but beyond my liking. Cheaper than disposing of them (called a few places and £30 was the lowest price I found).I'll never tell the garage "oh yeah it's okay I'll keep the old tyres" again.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2024, 09:48:41 pm
content: :horse:Just before Covid I was a guest of a spinoff company of a really big tech company we all know and love, My host, a nice young lady, commuted one and a half hours each way with her dog. Dogs were welcome in the offices. Cats not so much. You placed your breakfast order the night before, and your lunch order on arrival. Baby-sitting was also provided. I can attest the motel taxes were 120$ a night. Company attire was setting on a shelf on a take as you need basis. These were not perks. I enjoyed what would have been a two Michelin Star meal in the office.these services were provided, even to very junior staff, due to the time commitment for the commute to affordable housing.I had a service call at UCLA, I needed an m3x10 mm screw to replace one a grad student lost or borrowed on a tunable OPO. I located the needed screw at an Ace Hardware 7 miles from campus. I didn't have a rental car, so I asked for a grad student to give me a ride. After all, replace the screw , align the beam path, and I'm done a day early, saving them 1500$.I would have happily spent my evening finishing up. My next customer wanted the key missing piece of their new x-ray litho system installed. Their solution was three twelve hour shifts per week with dorms on site. The plant runs 20 hours a day, seven days a week.NO GO, The professor said have a bag of screws sent FedEx Overnight, for me to go back to the on campus hotel and hit the pool. Reasoning being that the risk of having a grad student drive under the 401 at peak rush hour was a substantial threat to the students personal vehicle.EPILOGUE: Much to my shock, my next customer was very understanding about the situation. In fact they were more interested in my evaluation of the student. From their standpoint, the prof is right.Oh well, I live in the Midwest, where 12 inch overnight snowstorms are considered a mere hinderence on a workday.Typical Ohio..." I'm sorry I'm late, there were 10 black ice spinouts and two jack knifed semis on Rt. 8. ". Well, glad you made it, try to leave home earlier next time"..San Fran and LA are wonderful places, but they are no longer economical for most business cases.I'm going to side with Elon on this one.STEVE

author: aeberbach
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 06:03:10 am
content: Twitter is in free fall. Another move won't help.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 08:17:09 am
content: X is not in freefall, it's burning up in re-entry. Nothing of value will be lost anymore.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 11:32:29 am
content: Well, market oriented economies work in cycles and phases.. And the bay area can hardly avoid that (unless they switch to a centrally planned economy which may end up even worse)..

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 11:34:10 am
content: Once in San Jose I wanted to visit a big retail store in a couple of miles from the hotel. I planned to get there by foot. Then noticed a tram line on the street. The railway is in the right direction and a tram is coming. I'd changed my mind and took advantage of public transportation. I boarded the tram, but had a ticket problem as there was no conductor, no device like funnel for coins and no one to ask. So it was actually a free ride. No idea if I'm a violator or there is a free municipal tram service in San Jose

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 01:45:20 pm
content: San Jose has light rail and the ticketing machines are located on the platforms. But in practice tickets are rarely checked.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 01:59:56 pm
content: Thanks. So I was just lucky that time

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2024, 02:02:51 pm
content: I've been on tram and light rail trips a couple of time in foreign places where I reached my destination and had to get off before figuring out how the payment system works.