Re-Reeeling of electronics components causing ESD damage. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 01:32:03 pm
content: What is the chances of electronics components suffering ESD damage due to poor component re-reeling practices?In UK , we have no significant semiconductor fabrication plants…therefore, components that get here do so by whatever napharious means. Large electronics corporations have large numbers of partially used component reels left over after various reflow production runs. These reels are sold back to subsidiaries of component distributors, who then combine and re-reel them onto new reels, so as to make full reels of components, which just look as if they have come straight from the semiconductor fabrication plant…….very often, such re-reeling is done by staff acting without proper ESD protection. Much of the re-reeling is also done in the Far East, because this is where most of the world’s electronics production happens.UK distributors are grateful to buy up these cheap re-reeled components….and pretend that they are “fresh from the semiconductor plant”. UK electronics companies then use them and find that their products are regularly blowing up due to ESD damage. Mainland European companies etc don’t have this problem, since they have special relations with semiconductor plants like ST, Infineon, NXP etc etc…so they can buy reels safe in the knowledge that they really are “straight from the semicon plant”.The UK has no such special relationships with semicon plants…..and the Far Eastern re-reelers are happy to sell duff re-reeled components to the UK, …happy that this will make British made electronics products less reliable than their own Far Eastern exports to UK……..thus increasing the dependency of UK on the Far East etc.So just how bad has this ESD damage caused by re-reeling of components become?

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 02:43:13 pm
content: 99.9% of the time the problem is way closer to you than to the parts manufacturer/distributor. Actually 99.9% of the 99.99% of the time you will quickly find it between your keyboard and chair. Off course, if you want to build here another treez-style Word/Global conspiracy theory about how they that want to destroy your poor designed devices you can go ahead, I will prepare my

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 09:09:47 pm
content: Do you have anything even remotely resembling evidence to back up any of the assertions you made?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2018, 09:19:33 pm
content: That looks dangerously close to double posting treez...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/esd-damaged-components-more-likely-to-blow-up-when-dvdt-is-high/msg1757033/#msg1757033Is it a Sunday competition to come up with as many excuses for your components blowing up that are not you?Stick an electrolytic in there and give the poor buggers a chance to live.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 02:07:06 am
content: Quote from: treez on August 19, 2018, 01:32:03 pmMy guess is these are counterfeit parts. There is no way to verify the authenticity of parts that have been sold and then returned to the distributor. So, licensed distributors generally sell off all returned items to surplus channels and never put them back into stock. There are outfits that specialize in buying genuine parts and returning scrap, floor sweepings, counterfeits, etc. for credit.I got burned many years ago form a grey market distributor. My guess is they made up a huge batch of boards with some op-amps installed backwards. They pulled the chips off, AFTER powering the boards, and had them cleaned up and sold to the grey market dist. About 20% of them blew up when installed correctly and powered up. I was NOT happy, and will never buy ICs from grey market dists. again! Lesson learned.Jon

author: xaxaxa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 05:02:43 am
content: Quote from: jmelson on August 20, 2018, 02:07:06 amThe most high suspect parts should undergo statistical QC before being sent to the assembly house. You can sample test a few parts which will tell you e.g. the probability that >5% of the parts are bad, and you can pick the sample size to control this. After assembly you need to have thorough functional tests that catch out of spec parts on all units. This is how I deal with using parts that can only be sourced from shenzhen market.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 09:14:51 am
content: Quote from: treez on August 19, 2018, 01:32:03 pmCobblers, semiconductors worldwide are sold via distribution all of which have significant presence in the UK which has a thriving electronics industry of 6k+ companies representing some of the strongest and most productive domestic manufacturing. If you choose to go around these standard channels, that is your problem not a UK one.QuoteGrey market parts can come from anywhere, they could be legitimate parts from lower spec bins or "ghost shift" from the same factory (so the brand written on the chip isn't getting their cut of the cash), they could be removed from a board, they could be a total fake, they could be from the back of someones storeroom, they could be a bad copy, they might be re-reeled,they could be an excellent copy, they could be something made to appear to operate the same way (think FTDI fakes),they could be stored badly or they could be exactly what you wanted. You have no way of knowing unless you sourced them from someone who has done due diligenceQuoteVery funny, the only place you will find the grey market crap is via brokers, and dodgy ones at that. Most of them will source from the same places as everyone else, they might dabble in other markets with other brokers they trust if you need something awkward/obsolete. What you get by using these brokers are kitting services, buying from one place, buying power and their existing credit and sales links.QuoteFor now the UK is in Europe, the distributors are largely global, excepting Anglia and specialist suppliers of things like displays. The UK has significant semiconductor IP to suggest otherwise is silly, thus it also has fabrication links too. The reliability suggestion is also daft, the UK is not in the consumer crap industry, it simply isn't possible to compete with the far east for non-automated tasks like final assembly. Instead the UK electronics industry makes bespoke, niche, innovative or high end things that require high levels of skill & design to deliver reliable things for often critical roles. The far east, so far doesn't have either the skills or trust/security to compete here, it may never get both...Quote

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 11:14:23 am
content: Treez, don't talk bollocks.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 02:59:05 pm
content: QuoteI don’t know where you got this…the CBI?……..£78bn annual turnover…that’s not the same as profit even if the figure is correct…the INTEREST on the UK national debt costs £48 billion per year.In 2016, Business Minister Baroness Neville Rolfe declared that 2/3 rds of UK Manufacturers (>500 staff) in UK are Foreign owned.The UK doesn’t even make the Electric drives for our military ships….France does.Here is the truth about UK industry…..every bit is checkable…https://massey276.wixsite.com/ukdeclineQuote..Because British is a universal language in engineering.None of these 20 co’s is British.They probably legally pay corporation tax to an “office” in Switzerland…rather than to UKQuote…They are mostly Foreign co’s operating in UKQuoteEach year, less than 100 UK domiciles graduate in Electronics each year with a hardware bias to their degree…..that’s nowhere near enough to support the world’s fifth largest Electronics production operation..QuoteThanks, but Chinese military hardware surpasses the West now….certainly surpasses anything UK does…https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/inventions/chinas-terrifying-and-deadly-arsenal-of-weapons/news-story/e1519b0261611c9eddfa59411ef45055Many of UK’s small electronics co’s are actually subsidiaries of large corporations who have set them up to scoop up EU grants for “industrial development”….This “EU grant” money actually comes from British taxpayers…many of the “Projects” being carried out are of questionable end use.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2018, 08:08:34 pm
content: Man china is gonna give you a bunch of bullshit when it comes to advertising their military hardware, its probably a buncha rickety junk.Just like with GDP, Russia and China lie like crazy about their economy. All fascist states tend to do this. Think about how hard they used to go on their propaganda machine.I mean you gotta stay on top of it but I doubt anything they do surpasses anything, besides that they might have a arsenal of fanatics to use shitty equipment in overwhelming numbers (I doubt their will to fight is so high either).They got a population that's not even interested in the outside world. I read a interview related to Baidu and Chinese search engine/social network equivalents to western ones and they are not even interested in em... you can't even look without worrying that you might be considered a dissident.You need strong allies, overseas bases, logistics networks... All that advanced hardware ties into everything too, you need good ships to use those fancy stealth fighters too. Cultural diffusion and all that good western stuff makes for a strong military as well since its easier to find allies, setup resistance networks and gather (reliable) spies if you are friendly to all people not have the xenophobic chinese goverment mindset, and that is what can win a war.I would say at most they are capable of putting up a strong defense of their own lands. They won't invade shit.Show me a Chinese equivalent to a arleigh burke missile destroyer count. Notice how interested they are in islands? Thats because they don't have mobile radar and aircraft capabilities comparable to modern navies, they need to setup transmitters and airstrips to have any kind of sea protection.Guess how well a immobile known radar mast /air field is going to fare against a tactical nuke strike launched close up from a few subs? Also you should have some pride in your navy, its been around and strong for like what, 500 years? They would do a good job.I know its a fox source, but lookhttp://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/05/17/north-korea-lying-satellite-data-suggest-china-russia-north-korea-may-be-falsifying-gdp-numbers.htmlImagine that 30% falsification on the national economy, and you need satellites to figure it out. Gee I wonder whats going on in the military (which is known to lie anyway, so they are probably super lying)