Oscilloscope for Beginner Fix "Everything Electronic" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: marcusone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 06:43:06 pm
content: I'm farily technical and did several years of electronic courses in high school (some many years ago). I've recently started to get back into hobby electronics; building my own simple circuits and may even venture into robotics. But I'm also interested in learning to diagnose and potentially fix electronics. one of the things the book I have says I need is a:100mhz dual input Oscilloscopewhat would you recommend I get (prefer to spend under $1,000, closer to $500 the better).From my research it appears that a digital one is the way to go; but please suggest what you fell is best and why (try not to get into a debate over analog vs digital meters).One that I have found that "sounds good" (far as my limited knowledge and current state of research goes) is the OWON SDS7102T, but costs near the top end of my budget.Thanks for your input.

author: amateur_25
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 07:33:18 pm
content: wow you sooo rich!! I wish I could spend that much. I only spent £300 quid. I had my head practically bitten off by my parents.yeah how's about the Rigol 1052e. It's not natively a 100MHZ scope but can be hacked to be. Search on this forum it's been done.Dave has recommended this scope and did a video on it.

author: marcusone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 10:35:26 pm
content: I'd rather not hack... and £300 is like $485 (Canadian: only because our dollar is strong now, used to be £300 would have been like 700+)

author: marcusone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 10:43:39 pm
content: What about a Rigol DS1102E 100MHz Digital Oscilloscope?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 11:03:22 pm
content: I have a DS1102E and it is a very nice equipment for a slight increase in price (mine was US$399.00 atSaelig, with free shipping, a very nice bag and a small gift knife).Other oscilloscopes (Owon, etc.) will give you a larger screen, but Dave's review of the DS1052E sold me on the Rigol.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2012, 11:23:25 pm
content: The 1102e may be the way to go. I have an Owon DS7102V and the only REAL complaint I have is the wf/s. You can forget about finding intermittent faults and the like in a realistic time period but other than that, Its not bad for the price.

author: Noize
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 02:10:25 am
content: If you got $1000 dollars spend on an oscilloscope spend it don't skimp unless you see a bargain. Can he afford one of new Rigol DS200's with that? Thats probably way better.

author: Noize
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 02:19:08 am
content: Rigol DS2072 70MHz. $839 US. I Assume it is software upgradable up to 100MHz or 200Mhz? 500mV division 14Mpts memory. Way much better than Rigol 1102E.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 02:22:55 am
content: If you need some more background on the Owon 'scopes,look on this forum for posts byaghp.He is very knowledgeable about this line of instruments.I don't have a DSO,but from all that I have read,the Rigol units seem to be a very good instrument for fairly low prices.I would suggest you buy a Rigol,&a secondhand analog Oscilloscope.This gives you the best of both worlds for a small outlay.I have some serious issues with inexpensive DSOs,but that's just me!

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 07:11:17 am
content: 100MHz is barely adequate for audio work, you will outgrow this bandwidth in no time. If you have space and time get one of fast Tektronix 7000 mainframes, either 7904(a) or 7104. If you don't, get Tektronix 475a, there is a lot of them on eBay for US$250-ish and you can get a nice one for sub-100 if you're patient.

author: marcusone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 02:31:33 pm
content: Thanks everyone...Anyone know about the "EZ Digital" Brand?

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 10:23:36 pm
content: Quote from: mazurov on December 29, 2012, 07:11:17 amAre you kidding?

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2012, 10:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: aluck on December 29, 2012, 10:23:36 pmNo I'm not. Have you ever seen oscillating transistor? With 10MHz scope often recommended for audio work you will never catch this since transistors tend to oscillate at frequencies above 100MHz.

author: aluck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 12:05:02 am
content: Quote from: mazurov on December 29, 2012, 10:30:27 pmI suck at analog electronics, but how exactly an oscillation above 100 MHz could influence a humble 44 kHz audio circuit?

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 12:44:03 am
content: An amount of influence would range from zero to "not working", depending on a circuit.

author: w2aew
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 03:23:33 am
content: Quote from: mazurov on December 30, 2012, 12:44:03 amI made a video about a year ago that illustrated this very thing - a parasitic oscillation in an audio oscillator.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 03:59:05 am
content: While I agree that it is possible for a 100MHz scope to be inadequate for some troubleshooting, it is entirely adequate for audio work. Having a perfect tool is not going to make a perfect troubleshooter. For a beginner looking to do general electronics work a 100MHz scope is a very good start and more than most people had for decades when doing audio work.The DS1052E, hacked or not is a good buy, so is the DS1102E. I would want an analog scope too, easy to find cheap.With the saved money, buy a couple of Amprobe AM270s, a variable power supply, a function generator, a good temperature controlled soldering iron, etc.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 09:09:53 am
content: Amplifiers oscillatig at 100MHz work often, just run really hot and cook tweeters.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 04:43:08 pm
content: A 100 MHz will still show signals with a somewhat higher frequency, although not with any accuracy. Having beginners buy 200+ MHz scopes just in case the amplifier decides to oscillate at 500 MHz is a waste of money in my opinion.~100 MHz appears to be the sweet spot bandwidth for low end scopes these days, so I would put the emphasis on getting a good ~100 MHz scope (eg. Rigol DS1102E, DS2072, Agilent DSO-X 2000), rather than trying as much bandwidth as possible. I don't think an analog scope is worth $250 for most work these days.Quote from: marcusone on December 29, 2012, 02:31:33 pmNever heard of them. The specs of them models Tequipment sell look very outdated, especially for the price. 100 MHz, 200 MS/s, 10k memory for $1k list would have been competitive in the nineties.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 05:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: alm on December 30, 2012, 04:43:08 pmI'm confused by this statement. Are you saying that its not worth investing $250 for an analog scope these days? Personally, there's a few older scopes I wouldn't mind dropping $250 on, i.e. the tek 2467. Sorry, I'm just a little...Thanks for the clarification.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 06:50:17 pm
content: I've been more than happy with my two vintage 100 MHz Tek scopes. Both analog and both were under $150. I also agree that as far as audio work, buying anything over 100 MHz is a waste. Sure a 500 MHz scope would be nice but it really isn't necessary 99.99 % of the time.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 07:22:59 pm
content: Quote from: StubbornGreek on December 30, 2012, 05:59:59 pmA Tek 2467 is definitely worth more than $250, but you don't always need a 2467. A basic 100 MHz DSO will work just as well, if not better, for most jobs. For example, I believe that a Rigol DS1052E would have been sufficient for (almost) all of the work that Dave and Mike did in their various videos, even though the both have much more expensive Agilent scopes. An analog scope has some advantages over cheap digital scopes, for example noise, blind time, speed and resolution. Most of these advantages are also present in cheaper models, like the Tek 400 or 2200 series (eg. 453, 465, 22xx). Digital scopes have gotten good enough that it's fairly rare to need an analog scope. Some of the features from the 24xx series, like cursors and measurements, are surpassed by DSOs.There some applications where the extra bandwidth or MCP CRT of a Tek 2467 is useful, but in general I'd rather spend the extra money towards a better DSO. This is quite different from say ten years ago, when digital scopes were much more expensive and less capable.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2012, 12:01:32 am
content: Quote from: alm on December 30, 2012, 07:22:59 pmFair enough, I appreciate the explanation.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2012, 09:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: alm on December 30, 2012, 07:22:59 pma 2467 is a great scope. on eBay they can be purchased for $250-500, but you need patience. I would not pay above that. There are plenty of sellers on eBay listing them at buy-it-now prices of $1200, $1800, up to $3500, these guys are crazy when you consider what you can get in a DSO for those prices.These tek listings go on for months and months without sales. If you have already bought your 100Mhz digital scope, then you're in no hurry to get a 2467. What you should do is for every 2467 you are interested in, offer the seller $250, if they counter with something higher offer $350 next. if they say no, move on to the next one and do it again. You will get a seller willing to let you have it between $250 and $350, and then you will have a great 2nd scope.I just bought a 4ch 1Ghz Lecroy for $475. I may take my own advice and try to find my own tek 2467 for $250 - $350