Voltage selector wiring using faston - Am I missing something? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2024, 04:23:59 pm
content: Please consider the following image/ diagram of a power module with incorporated fuse and voltage selector. In this case an external power DPST is needed.I believe that the wiring is correct. Is it?If the IEC inlet's connectors are "solder lug" I can easily combine two wires into one lug as shown on the image (1&4), but how on earth do I do this if the module has "quick connect/ disconnect"? I really don't like the idea of crimping two wires onto one faston. What am I missing here?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2024, 05:15:56 pm
content: Quotepiggy back fastons

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2024, 05:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on May 20, 2024, 05:15:56 pmYep. Work beautifully.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2024, 07:31:10 am
content: OK I see, thanks. I wasn't aware of these.Do you know if sleeves for piggy back fastons exist? Something like this on the pic but for the piggy back ones. I can't find anything...

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2024, 11:01:44 am
content: Just use the normal ones.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2024, 11:03:59 am
content: Quote from: Benta on May 21, 2024, 11:01:44 amYou mean two single ones instead of a dedicated piggyback one, right? OK, thanks. Perhaps that's why piggyback sleeves don't exist.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2024, 05:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: pope on May 20, 2024, 04:23:59 pmWhile the piggyback Fastons are the elegant solution, I will point out that crimping two wires onto one terminal is a perfectly acceptable practice, provided it's done correctly. Above all, this means having the correct size crimp for the combined wire cross-section.Here's TE's acceptance criteria:https://www.te.com/content/dam/te-com/documents/application-tooling/global/65784_Crimp%20Quality%20Poster_ENGLISH_26x13%20version.pdfYou can also get Faston adapters, like these:Digikey category, filtered

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2024, 06:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: pope on May 21, 2024, 11:03:59 amYes. The only exposed part will be the flat section at the bottom. If you're in a situation where the piggy back tab will be unused, use a piece of shrink tubing to isolate it.In fact, you can even do this for the mentioned flat part.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 10:30:13 am
content: Thank you all for the very useful information! Much appreciatedSpeaking of festons. Do you think that brass/tin is a good choice for mains? This is the most commonly available option.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 05:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: pope on May 22, 2024, 10:30:13 amPerfect. Don't get into any gold-plated or whatever stuff.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 07:59:54 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on May 22, 2024, 05:00:50 pmGiven that gold-plated ones are extremely exotic special-order items with military prices, this is slightly unnecessary advice.(Remember that gold plating is normally used for low-current and/or low-force connectors with little or no wiping action. Fastons are very high-force connectors, so a single insertion would chew right through gold plating. That makes the plating doubly useless, since it wouldn’t survive the first insertion, but also unnecessary because insertion cuts fairly deeply into the surface, exposing clean metal.)

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 08:44:22 pm
content: Thanks for the lecture.But more important is to use quality brands like TE or Vogt.I've seen faston connectors from China that are made from brass so thin or soft as to be unusable.And it's not like this is expensive stuff. Save yourself the pain and spend a couple of cents more.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 08:55:37 pm
content: So, I've been thinking of usingthis female connectorwith a TE power switch. However the switch has the male "blades" with a hole in the middle. Does this mean that another TE/Faston female connector is required?Sorry for these basic questions but there are so many different options that it's very difficult to find the correct/ safest combination.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 09:52:00 pm
content: All faston males I know of have a hole in the middle.The female part has a dimple or a "springy bridge" that secures the connection mechanically.Don't drive yourself crazy, they all fit together.There's only one trap: the 6.3 mm faston also has a "thin-blade" version (0.5 mm), but it's very rare.Stick with the standard types and you're OK.Edit: for mains, I'd go for a 14...18 AWG (>0.75 mm2) type. 18...22 AWG is too thin.Oops: Forgot AMP. Check this:https://www.buerklin.com/en/c/connectors/crimp-connectors/receptacles/40101400/?facet.8266_geeignet_fuer=6.35+x+0.81+mm&facet.8399_material=brass%2C+tin-plated&facet.8321_isoliert=false&facet.8024_anschluss=crimp+connection&facet.8381_leiterquerschnitt=0.51+to+1.65+mm%C2%B2

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 11:17:11 pm
content: QuoteAlso,whilst not as common theirs the odd bugger ( neutrik im looking at you ) who decides 4.8mm is the size to use

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2024, 11:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on May 22, 2024, 11:17:11 pmDunno what you're on about.I use all three faston standard sizes (2.8 mm, 4.8 mm and 6.3 mm, all in 0.8 mm thickness) as required by the application.Same crimp tool, just different current levels and cable sizes.Also helps keep signal/power/mains separated and not wrongly inserted by a moron.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 12:04:39 am
content: Quoteyea but you sorta expect a connector rated at 230v 20A to use 6.3mm ,but that aint always the case so best to double check if your buying in for a specific job

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2024, 07:41:36 am
content: Quote from: Benta on May 22, 2024, 09:52:00 pmthanks for the advice. The reason I used 18...22 AWG is because the transformer's primaries use 20ish AWG wires (cross-section=0.52mm2) with a 2.15mm insulation thickness.Having said that, the connectors have already arrived and the wire insulation won't fit into it the connector, although the connector claims:Compatible Insulation Diameter Range : 1.52 – 2.54 mm [ .06 – .1 in ]

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2024, 07:10:56 pm
content: In that case, you have a couple of options which both include using 0.75...1.5 mm2fastons:1: place a ferrule on the end of the wires. Works for both solid and stranded wire.2: for stranded wire, remove a double length of insulation and fold back the strands for double cross-section in the crimp area.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:48:25 am
content: Since we are on this could you recommend some good crimping tool? I'm not planning to spend thousands of $$$ that TE wants me too.I've been thinking something along these lines which is around 200 euro but any suggestion is very welcomehttps://www.knipex.com/products/crimping-pliers/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-with-changer-magazine/knipex-multicrimp-crimping-pliers-changer-magazine/973301

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 12:14:33 pm
content: Quote from: pope on May 26, 2024, 07:48:25 amAt work, I have two Knipex crimp tools: the 97 52 36 (for insulated terminals) and the 97 43 200 handle + several sets of dies, including the dies for the same insulated terminals, as well as for uninsulated terminals.While they're both good, I STRONGLY prefer the 97 43 200, for two reasons: 1. it takes much less force to operate, and 2. the jaws move almost perfectly vertically ("parallel" action), which produces better crimps.The 97 33 01 and the 97 52 36 both have the more angled jaw action, rather than the parallel. So I would much sooner recommend the 97 43 200 and the 97 49 04 or 97 49 05 dies.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 03:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 26, 2024, 12:14:33 pmThanks. I will take a look at these suggestions. Have you used the 97 49 95 locator by any chance? If so, is it worth it?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:35:31 pm
content: No, I haven’t used it, so unfortunately I cannot comment on it from experience. But as a general rule locators are great, since they help ensure consistency and generally make it easier to use the tool.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:59:34 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 26, 2024, 07:35:31 pmthanks tooki!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 11:51:10 am
content: I’ll add that if you just need to crimp a few, and your application can tolerate the occasional failed crimp which you have to cut off and redo, it’s likely not worth the cost of the locator. If your application cannot tolerate failure (e.g. if you need to crimp to short wires that have zero excess) or you need to do lots of them, locators are well worth it.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 12:38:59 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 29, 2024, 11:51:10 amThanks. I need to do quite a few and I'd rather spend a bit more and be on the safe side.BTW, is there any other brand/ model that I could look into? Just for comparison really. since knipex is the first I came across. Knowing my luck, there's almost always a better solution with similar cost/ performance ratio

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 06:16:50 pm
content: Not really, without resorting to the $$$ stuff from TE, etc.Several other tool manufacturers that focus on electrical tools or components (Weidmüller, Phoenix Contact, Vogt, Greenlee, etc.) sell crimp tools, but they’re no cheaper than Knipex (and some may in fact be rebadged Knipex), so I don’t see much point in it.FYI, if you encounter the Rennsteig brand, that’s Knipex’s subsidiary that actually makes their crimp tools. So if you should encounter the equivalent Rennsteig tool for less money than the Knipex, go for it! It’ll just be black and green instead of blue and red.However, one very happy way to get the $$$ TE/AMP tools (or other major manufacturers like Molex) for $ is to get them on eBay (or local equivalent) or classifieds. I’ve managed to get multiple $$ crimp tools ($300-500 each) for $60-120brand new in box, and a $700 DMC indent crimper used for $150. The downside is that this may require patience. Since Fastons have been around since forever, I expect there are alotof the tools on eBay, as long as you’re OK with the tool looking kinda beat up, and the time needed to search the listings.Finally, I will say that Fastons used with thicker wire (perhaps 16AWG and up) are among the most forgiving crimp contacts, so one of the best Chinese crimpers (like IWISS) will usually do an OK job on them. (I’ve had less consistent results with thinner wires.) But you won’t have a locator, and it’s a bit of a crapshoot whether a given tool will produce good results, or produce them consistently. (I’ve largely written off Chinese crimpers, as I have come to value my time and sanity — and the satisfaction of a good tool — over saving a buck.)

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2024, 06:22:18 pm
content: Great info. Thanks

author: exmadscientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2024, 04:09:29 am
content: If you come across the TE/Amp "midrange" tool 59824-1, it's an amazing piece of kit. It handles a much wider range of terminals than their "high end" stuff, so it's pretty much the only crimp tool you need for fastons, rings, etc., if you stick with TE's PIDG line. And it's fully UL approved, which is strong evidence that it's going to give great results.Unfortunately the price has doubled (I think) in the last few years, so it's not the bargain it used to be. And the specimens on eBay, last I looked, were unimpressive. But if you come across one that looks tempting, go for it!

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 04:09:24 pm
content: Coming back to this thread, I'm wondering if anyone knows any DIE other than the 97 49 15 that can do angle/ flag terminals (for the Knipex 97 43 200).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 08:36:38 pm
content: Quote from: pope on December 02, 2024, 04:09:24 pmKnipex doesn't make a die for that style of flag terminals, unfortunately.(Edit: I misread. 97 49 15 is indeed for that style of flag terminal.) And you really can't do them on the regular dies.If you have the dies for regular insulated terminals (97 49 06), Panduit has fully-insulated flag terminals thatdon'trequire special dies. I ordered some (DNFR18-250B-M), but haven't tried them out yet. Every other brand of fully-insulated flag terminals requires special dies.TE makes semi-insulated flag terminals that work with regular-ish dies: 156666-1 and 156667-1. They are part of the PIDG series and technically require a different crimp shape from other insulated terminals (Knipex dies 97 49 06PI), but I've crimped other PIDG terminals using the regular 97 49 06 and they seem to be OK, perhaps with the insulation slightly overcrimped.There are non-insulated flag terminals that should work with regular crimp dies, like TE 61549-1, 60764-2, 62048-1, 2238141-1, 2238106-1, and the unusual 60873-1 (right-angle flag). Most of this style is for 2.8mm tabs, but most of the ones I list there are for 6.3mm tabs.Panduit also sells uninsulated versions of the ones above (e.g. DR18-250-M), which presumably work with a dimple-style crimp die like Knipex 97 49 14 or 97 49 10. I haven't tried these.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 08:56:37 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 02, 2024, 08:36:38 pmThanks Tooki!In fact, I just bought the 97 49 05 literally 5 minutes ago. Once the transaction was completed, I came here and found your reply. Hopefully this is the correct DIE for the straight 6.35 quick disconnect TE connectors I'll be mostly using...I found the 97 49 15, which I understood that can do flag terminals but I didn't pull the trigger because of its price. My heart said yes but my mind said no, for a change!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:21:15 pm
content: Quote from: pope on December 02, 2024, 08:56:37 pmYou know what, you're right, 97 49 15 is for flag terminals. I googled it before, but the description I found was incomplete and didn't mention the flag part, and I then didn't look at the datasheet.Yes, it sure looks like the 97 49 05 is intended for the straight connectors, and it might work for some of the flag connectors I listed, too.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 09:26:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 02, 2024, 09:21:15 pmOK cool, at least I wasn't totally wrong. If possible, let us know how the Panduit samples work for you. If they work with the PIDG die I think it makes more sense to have two different dies (97 49 05 and 97 49 06) than just the 97 49 15, both price-wise and function-wise.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 10:26:05 pm
content: Itshouldwork in the non-PIDG ’06 die, but I’d be surprised if it didn’t work in the PIDG die (’06 PI), too. What I did check before ordering is that they use the same die as Panduit’s straight insulated terminals. I have the regular ’06, but haven’t (knowingly) used Panduit terminals before. But I’d be quite surprised if they don’t work — compatibility among brands of insulated terminals does seem quite high. PIDG is the sort of outlier. And even those seem to work OK.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2025, 02:31:33 pm
content: Can anyone confirm whether a 6.35mm faston will work with the knipex97 49 04die?I bought a97 49 05because according to their data sheet, it works on 4.8mm and 6.3mm, while the 97 49 04 works only with 2.8mm and 4.8mmI use 0.5mm (20ish AWG) wire and the results are horrible. First image is with a6.35mm (20-16 AWG)and the second with a6.35mm (18-22 AWG). On the 18-22 connector it won't even bother to bend the insulation barrel.So, unless I'm doing something horrible wrong, the97 49 05ia totally useless.Before throwing out of the window another 80-100 euro, does anyone know if the97 49 04would do the job even though is not specified for 6.35 connectors?Sorry if I sound a bit pissed off. It's because I am...Also, does anyone know the current rating of all these TE connectors? There's no info whatsoever.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 12:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: pope on January 30, 2025, 02:31:33 pmUltimately, compatibility depends on the specific terminal model. Die sets don’t really care about what the mating side of a connector is, what matters to the dies is the crimp dimensions (width, height, length of each crimp, and the distance between the insulation crimp and conductor crimp, as well as any vertical offset between the insulation crimp and conductor crimp). In tools with locators, the locator is highly contact-specific. This tool doesn’t come with a locator, though some are available as accessories. So whether a particular die is specified for a terminal type is not always a definitive answer.The crimp in the first photo looks quite good. What is unsatisfactory to you? Did it fail a pull test? The insulation crimp is a bit roomy, but its better to under-crimp the insulation than to over-crimp it (which is, frankly, what a lot of cheap tools do), because over-crimping the insulation weakens it dramatically, sometimes to the point of failure.The terminal in the second photo is one for wire with extra-thin insulation. It needs a special die, as you can see that its uncrimped insulation barrel is actually shorter than the uncrimped conductor barrel! You might be able to get it to grip a little bit by re-crimping using the conductor half of the die. But expect some insulation damage. I wouldn’t rely on this, I’d buy the correct terminals, the ones for standard insulation. See the catalog below.The ’04 die might do better, but it might be too short (in length, not height). Depends on the terminal, too. I would sooner suggest you try different terminals before buying another die. Or use thicker wire if you can, e.g. 0.75mm2.Quote from: pope on January 30, 2025, 02:31:33 pmYes, there is. The difficulty is perhaps that the current rating depends on wire size, acceptable temperature rise, plating type, and product type, so the documentation is a bit more complex.https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F108-20020%7FD3%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_SS_108-20020_D3.pdf%7F180409-2https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=82004_FASTON_TERMINALS_-_FULL_CATALOG&DocType=CS&DocLang=ENhttps://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=108-143087&DocType=SS&DocLang=EN—> contains wire-size-specific current ratings for standard Faston products.And the Faston web page itself:https://www.te.com/en/products/brands/faston.htmlBut the upshot is this: every 6.3mm Faston has a rating of at least 7A (for the “mini” ones), but most are 20A. With your 0.5mm wire, you’re first limited by the ampacity of your wire.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 01:21:13 pm
content: Thank you tooki. Very informative as always!I even contacted TE and they had hard time to find the current rating for a specific part. They eventually found some document dated back in early 90s.QuoteI'm far from being an expert but according tothis guide, I would expect the insulation barrel to "hug" the whole insulation, not just a small portion on top. Pulling the wire resulted in breaking it (i.e. strands were still attached to the crimp) but the insulation barrel doesn't hold the insulation at all.Having said all that, I'd be very happy to hear from someone more experienced, that the crimp in the first picture is acceptable

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 02:01:12 pm
content: Does it not grip the insulationat all?As in, the insulated part of the wire can move freely within the crimp?

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 04:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 02, 2025, 02:01:12 pmIt does grip but very little. Also, the insulation moves a bit but definitely not freely. The insulation barrel grips it a bit from the top as shown on the previous photo.EDIT: maybe it's a bit more clear on this image?