Solder Mask - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 12:17:51 am
content: Hi guys, is solder mask doable at home? All the videos on Youtube that I've seen produce unacceptable results.I think the most impressive results are from laminating dry film solder mask exposing to UV and etching. But I'm not sold on the idea of this type of solder mask. I don't know how well or poorly it performs in the long run. Does it de-laminate over time? And then how good is it standing up to the heat of soldering?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 02:02:59 am
content: I have some scraps of PC board material with DuPont Riston resist that were laminated probably 20 years ago, and the resist is still adhering as well as it did when first exposed and developed. Now, some of it might break down right around where you have soldered components on, but in general, it is really tough and stable. They do sell a similar material to be used as a solder mask. The only reason it is rarely seen is it is pretty expensive, so production shops use cheaper stuff.Jon

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 05:50:32 am
content: The short answer is: No. Don't bother. It is a total PITA. When you get to the point of needing a soldermask, you are at the point where spending $20 for to get your PCBs made in China and in your hands next week is worth it.UV ink is messy, awkward, finicky and difficult at homeDry Film Mask (don't confuse with resist) is not that readily available and available in green onlyVitrea 160 with toner masking is semi-workable but still a tricky process that needs considerable practice and experimentingAnd after all that you still just have a PCB with a usually DIY looking soldermask and no silkscreen. You might just as well paint the PCB manually with nail varnish since that will be about as protective.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2019, 12:25:09 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on February 17, 2019, 05:50:32 amAgreed. Or just use some Kapton tape.

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 04:52:19 pm
content: Yes it is possible at home. I use Dynamask 5000 series Dry Film Solder Mask in green. It takes about 60 seconds for exposure using a proper UV unit (design for PCB use). After developing, it can be hardened further by exposure to UV for 10-30 minutes or so, or pop it in the reflow oven at 100C for a while.I've also had good results with the UV curable paint on eBay. Buff the PCB with a wire brush or scotchbrite pad first to help with adhesion, then apply a small drop on the PCB. Place a shiny acetate sheet over the top and spread the drop out until there is a thin and even layer of paint. Then align the artwork (keeping the original shiny acetate sheet in place) and expose for 45 seconds. Gently wipe with IPA and a soft cloth to remove unexposed paint, then harden by exposing for another few minutes.Use disposable gloves, it's not all that messy.

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 05:00:20 pm
content: This was my first attempt with the paint, blue on one side and yellow on the other. That board was double sided CNC milled.The green board is dynamask (not properly hardened before scrubbing with flux cleaner brush). That board was photo-imaged then etched.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 09:05:08 pm
content: QuoteOn an SMD board, in particular, the soldermask is useful for keeping the solder on the pads, rather than wicking anywhere it wants.I would not call the results impressive, but I have learned how to do a very easy "solder mask" on a home made board by growing an oxide layer on the copper.What I do is take the finished board and shine it up. I wet scrub with stainless steel wool and then pat it dry with paper towel. Then I take the board over to my microscope and draw over the pads with sharpie. The clearance around the pads helps to make this relatively quick and painless. Then I dip the board in my etchant for a few seconds. Rinse thoroughly in clean water. Then hang it up, wet. In some number of hours, something between 0 and 6 (dunno, because I never sat there and watched), the board turns black.Wipe the board with alcohol or acetone, and you get shiny copper pads on a black board. I'm way more careful of how much/where I apply the liquid flux when I solder. There is a heat affected zone around where you apply your iron to fluxed board, where the oxide layer starts to dissolve. But with a minimal amount of care, the solder stays 100% on the pads. Even where I forget to apply a thermal pad on a plane, this dot of clean copper can take a good hot reflow without spilling out of bounds. Even a mil or two line of oxide that is incidentally made when I sharpie adjacent pads holds up and keeps the solder to its respective pad. Population is also much easier, because the pads really pop out at you. Esthetically, I find the result very pleasing, esp after cleaning and a layer of conformal coat. But it's not for everyone. It looks a bit like the shell of an old crusty blue lobster.I have some pics:()After soldering and handling, some of the black will be lost. Here's the final, after cleaning but before the conformal coat. You can see how the solder stays on the pads, compared to the unmasked board.(https://i.imgur.com/BNBL4uJ.jpg?1)After a conformal coat:(https://i.imgur.com/7lsCju8.jpg?1)Note this board was initially etched over 7 years ago. There was some pitting and some rough traces, although it might be hard to see with the oxide layer. My transfer and etch is much cleaner these days.Anywhere you forgot to cover the pad or where you want to add a pad to a ground plane, you can scrape away a spot on the oxide layer. In fact, I first started playing with this idea on blank copper clad which I use for adding a component or two to existing board by mechanically cutting pads/traces. Then I'd reveal where I want the pads to be by removing the oxide only at those spots.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 05:21:53 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 18, 2019, 09:05:08 pmThis is probably the principal reason for looking into this. Protecting the board is nice for a piece of mind too.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 05:34:13 am
content: ^Sounds like you are not happy with the many commercial solutions, though? For esthetics and durability reasons? "Unacceptable results" and concerns over "long term durability?"They appear to all work pretty well, to me. The major issue is the work involved!Give my method a try, sometime. I'm curious how it works for someone who does oven reflow. I have a reflow oven, but I have no way to make stencils. I also have no desire to do it, anymore, because I am not good at pasting a stencil or using paste applicators.

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 10:43:03 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 20, 2019, 05:34:13 amStencil making is quite easy, all you need is a Silhouette Portrait or Cameo craft cutter, some mylar sheets gerber2graphtec (python scripts) . Export the paste file as a gerber and import it into the gerber2graphtec program, then send it to the printer.https://github.com/pmonta/gerber2graphtecThe craft cutter chugs away for 10-30 minutes depending on the complexity of the design and the number of rounded corners used. It works better/faster with squares and rectangles than with circles. Converting circles to octagons is advised if you want to save time.VQFN-56 (8mm×8mm) is possible but you may need to remove some of the "hanging chads"using a pair of tweezers.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 11:59:01 am
content: Hmmm I've tried laser cut polyester stencils once and I was not impressed at all. Unlike a metal stencil you can't apply any tension because it deforms and seemed to do so simply from the drag of the squeegee. Mylar might be better as structure is different but the other problem i saw was the apertures were really bad at releasing the paste on smaller apertures.Fine for nothing that fancy and small boards in one or twos but frankly for anything else I think you'd have to be off your rocker. The idea on herehttps://www.smtstencil.co.uk/that people use them 100s or even 1000s of times is incomprehensible to me. Not having a frame is bad enough in my book, were I a hobbyist I would be making something that could act as a frame post haste.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 05:41:21 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 18, 2019, 09:05:08 pmI can't imagine why would anybody want to do this, other than for fun. Commercially made board are cheap.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 09:11:32 pm
content: Quote*Shrug* It seems to me it's a lot easier than the UV paint/film methods. What part about that sounded as labor intensive as say cleaning up a paste stencil after using it? The wet scrub is already part of my process for removing the toner and revealing clean copper. The only real added step is coloring in the pads with the sharpie and dunking it, again. I suppose at some point in size/complexity, UV masks will be easier.All you need is a cutting board and a sink. You've got running water, right? It's like doing the dishes except you're done after one dish.I spent a few long days doing the board layout (it's double-sided with a high density bottom layer). I spent hours figuring out how the low voltage cutout pins on the 1308 work and writing code for the micro for on/off and low voltage cutout and microamp sleep. I spent hours initially sourcing the parts that I didn't have on hand. I spent hours and two evenings assembling the board, mostly in locating and handling the parts. My process for making PCB takes some time and work, but it's highly optimized and a fairly small part of total work and time on this particular board. The added time/work allows me to do the other stuff on my own schedule rather than waiting for a package to show up. The hard work of tweaking the transfer equipment and making the tank/etchant has already been completed as a one time investment. (The dedicated cutting board was part of it. Highly recommended.) If something were to break the camel's back, it wouldn't have been the manufacturing of the PCB or the 60 seconds it took to color in the pads with a Sharpie.This size of board, I can make probably 6-8 in a go. This was the one leftover from a batch I made 6-7 years ago. I probably kept it bare for reference/debugging while populating the other ones. I was running low on this circuit after giving some away over the years. After making this one and repairing and reworking one of the earlier protos to bring it to speed, I'm good, again.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 01:45:32 pm
content: I was referring to the whole process of hand made boards, not just the mask. Yes, you may argue the few hours you spent on the PCB is 1% of the entire product development time, but it is 1% easily avoided.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 10:04:39 pm
content: You are asking; I am answering. There's no arguing, here.If you don't like what I'm saying, then stop reading. If you want to convince me to stop making PCB's, I'm all ears.I order boards, too. They can be very inexpensive, but it's usually at least 15-20.00. Add another 20, if you want 3 day shipping.To come clean, here, most of my homemade boards are not anywhere as complex as this example. More often, I am using toner transfer to make adaptors, breakout boards, and for testing new circuitry/components with fairly simple single sided boards just to add some support circuitry and pin headers to an IC footprint. For this kind of thing it is rare that any copy beyond the first one has any value to me, whatsoever. So that 15 to 20 bucks is not insane, but for a single breakout board that ISn't going to arrive in two days? Maybe I'm cheapskate, but that's not great to me.I might use another one in a year or 10 (not likely), but that's only if I can find it. If I make my own, I just have to find a file on my computer. An analogy is how I deal with my component storage. It's not fast and sleek. It's very compact and secure, but it takes time to find things and to get the parts out. No ziplock baggies, no slide out compartments. I just seal the components up with a heat sealer. I have to cut the bag open and dot it closed again with my iron. But the idea is to store more things, securely, in less space. The "ease of use" is secondary. Ordering boards is like opening the package and taking out ten. Then having no way to put the genie back in the bottle. Now the extra boards are my problem. That one use cost 20-30 dollars. I can't count the number of professionally manufactured PCBs I have thrown away. The $2 per way of thinking is nonsense. When I order 10 pcb, I often thrown 8 or 9 of them away without populating them. Hopefully sooner, rather than later. My workspace thanks me. On work related proto, maybe 3 sets of boards ever gets used, depending on how many parties need a copy. This is just for the electrical verification and housing. If there are failure rate/assembly issues to work out and streamline, it is gonna take more than 10 copies and usually requires the professionally populated first run. So the extra proto boards are usually as useful as a second dick.*Making boards is not for everyone. But I think it' a lot easier than many people think. Toner transfer can be 100% reliable and has good enough resolution for most double-sided non BGA things.*One of the few things I have repeatedly reached for and use up are little DC boost circuit PCBs. This is also, not coincidentally, a pre-populated "component-on-PCB" that you can buy from component distributors. There are probably a few other good examples, but I don't have any for what I do. Maybe Arduino's and stuff like that. RS232 adapters. I dunno. I mean, if it's a board you are gonna find useful again and again, someone probably makes and sells it cheaper than you can.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 09:19:10 am
content: I make a board when I need it in 2 hours. Doesn't happen usually now, but when it does happen, it does.Oh, this is easy to calculate.If I value my work worth of $300/hr, and I work 12 hours a day or 60 hours a week when in flow, and if we assume that I can't do significant substitute work on the project butneedto prototype the electronics ASAP - does happen sometimes - we get:DIY board: $600 worth of my time and $2 worth of materials -> $602Chinese $10 board (cheap shipping): 3 weeks: $54010Chinese $50 board (DHL shipping): 1 week: $18050Local quick turn-around service board: $500 and 2 days: $7700"LOL DON'T MAKE YOUR BOARDS THEY ARE SO CHEAP" spammers are the cancer of this forum, year after year. They automatically derail and ruineverytopic with a bot-like 100% certainty, and are always stupid enough not to understand long and detailed expert replies they get, so it's always time wasted trying to discuss with them.On topic: I don't usually add a solder mask; it's at least one hour more, and the quality is never on par with the fabs. I rather spend that one hour Kapton taping the one single spot which is susceptible; often there is no need at all for this. Same goes for through hole plating; I achieved around 99.5 to 99.9% yield, which is order of magnitude too low, and spent 1.5 hours per board in plating activities. In the same time, you solder wires to several hundred vias! In any case, I'm fairly happy with green dry film solder mask material, specifically for this purpose. You just need to expose it longer than similar etch photoresist - otherwise, the surface is damaged during the carbonate developer step. Post exposure is also highly recommended.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 11:16:42 am
content: Yes, I would rather not have this thread derail into a discussion on should one make a board at home or order one online. That's not my intent.Does anyone have any suggestions as to what thickness soulder mask should be? I'm leaning in the direction of getting a process happening using liquid stuff. Google isn't yielding much results. Maybe I'm looking for too hardcore info on all this in the form of scientific papers, but would be nice to know some actual scientific reasons for optimal solder mask in various applications.Also, does anyone have any way of measuring solder mask thickness apart from buying a probe apparatus as seen below, which I can only imagine is prohibitively expensive:https://www.fischer-technology.com/en/united-states/knowledge/application-notes/premium-measurement-instruments-for-semiconductors-and-electronics/controlling-the-thickness-of-solder-resist-in-the-manufacture-of-printed-circuit-boards/I can presently use calipers but they only have 0.01mm resolution which means that according to google results, people have seen 0.4 to 1.2mil thick solder mask which is a range of 0.01-0.03mm. Seems too inaccurate? No?The other alternative is to use a DTI, but that has a similar resolution of 0.01mm.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 11:20:03 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 22, 2019, 09:19:10 amAll the time spent developing the process before refining it to the point of having a good board in two hours should be taken into account as well, though it gets amortized through the number of boards produced.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 11:38:03 am
content: I've got some Dynamask 5000 that I'm unlike to use. I'd anyone in the UK wants some (or if anyone outside the UK wants to pay postage) I'm happy to sent out some pieces to give it a try.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 03:36:34 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 21, 2019, 10:04:39 pmYes, I agree it is annoying to throw out boards. I would like to avoid that, if I could. But I don't want a procedure that is now fire-and-forget to turn into a project of itself....Quote from: SiwastajaLol. Dude, your time is so valuable yet you have nothing else to do in the time that you wait for boards to arrive?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 07:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: ar__systems on February 22, 2019, 03:36:34 pmNot necessarilymytime. And this doesn't always happen. I do a DIY PCB maybe once every two years now.But, sometimes a project is timing-critical. Sometimes a quick prototype is really necessary to move on. Heck, it can be ten engineers waiting, each at $300/hr. It can be 100 engineers and a multi-billion business opportunity waiting. The numbers are completely arbitrary, I could have picked any unimaginable numbers, but I didn't. The point is, you can't always find substitute work in certain style of projects, and your project is stalled, and this is not going to be free - you are waiting to make some tests and measurements, to prove a concept, to show a prototype - all needed to go on early. In that regard, my numbers are very conservative, assuming only one engineer's time, and not assumingmuchmore value to the time than what many freelancers get paid. Note that there is a difference between your wage, what it costs to the company, and what itsvalueis. Especially the last one can be much more.For this exact reason, large corporations doing design do have their own in-house prototyping fabs! For this reason, professional PCB milling machinery exist!Many of us have hobbyist background. I started doing PCBs myself, as a hobby, when the PCB fab cost was ten times more than what it is now. Now, the skill and equipment is very good to have.Sorry for replying to a derailer troll. I'm not replying anymore after pointing this out.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 07:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 22, 2019, 07:12:41 pmYour numbers are not arbitrary. They are pulled out of you know where. The project involves 100 engineers @ 300/hr and they all are waiting for a poor fellow to hand made a circuit board. Right, that happens every day.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 08:42:04 pm
content: QuoteThe making of a PCB can be more of a process than a project. At least, if you happen to figure out how to do it well. A project implies a challenge that requires decision making and judgment calls and experience, and which can sometimes result in failure.Yeah, it's not for everyone. If you do most of your electronics work in an office building and leave your work there when you go home, then it could be highly impractical to even handle chemicals at your workplace. This is probably part of the reason some companies pay thousands of dollars for CNC machines for the primary purpose of making prototype pcbs. If you are a salaried/hourly employee, your manager surely wants to see you at your computer 6 hours a day, minus the 2 hours of mandatory department and company meetings and progress reports. In the typical workplace environment, it is probably safer to sit at your computer and discretely play solitaire rather than be seen making a PCB in the breakroom sink. If you don't have a space where you can conveniently store and use the equipment at your own discretion, then it might turn into a risky project.QuoteI'm not saying this meets this exact example, but one place where something sorta like this might happen is with testing equipment. For a product that is in production, it may need special jigs for testing during production. Say some pogo pin getup in some sort of press or fixture. Say the new guy broke the jig. Then the manager comes over and expertly installs the new one. But he's an idiot. Now the entire line can go down. Workers paid but no work. Contracts/deadlines in jeopardy and/or lost sales. This can cost a lot of money. Any specialized equipment for production will qualify.Maybe Siwastaja has gotten a phone call. "Hey, remember that thing you made for use in 2012? Yeah, that it. Do you have another? Oh, how fast can you make another? We need it, now. Someone can drive over and pick it up this afternoon."Some companies you deal with, everything is a rush. It's always "How fast? You know it would really help us out if you can do in [stated time x0.5] Oh, well, in case it's done sooner, it will help us out. And overnight it. AM Express." You wonder sometimes if it's a personality disorder. But sometimes it's maybe an actual emergency.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 10:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 22, 2019, 08:42:04 pmThat might happen, although not in my experience. The companies I deal with know the critical pieces of the process and always have at least two of those in operation, AND backups.Emergencies like that are not true emergencies, rather they are result of managerial screw up. If that should happen to me I most definitely will not drop everything to start hand etching a PCB. I don't want a sketchy hand made PCB to be used in a production, and then risk being responsible for the failure. If they have to wait for a properly made PCB a day or two, then so be it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 10:54:38 pm
content: QuoteThere are all kinds of people and personalities that make it into all kinds of positions based on various factors which sometimes includes competence. There are also occasional mistakes by otherwise competent people.QuoteAnd yet, when a managerial screw up happens, all the guys that showed up every day, worked hard at their job, and did NOT cause the screw up, they can also lose hours or even be laid off. This company's business might also be a significant portion of your own company's income and ultimately your own livelihood. So yeah, in a "managerial screw up" like this, I might be happy to accommodate.If you have the capability to do something that will save/make someone else buckets of money, is that not an opportunity? You should like to be in this situation. For the warm fuzzy feeling of helping other people feed their kids. Or for job security and leverage in your own compensation. Take your pick.But don't take this as a suggestion from me to make your own PCB's. In fact, I suggest you, AR specifically, do not try it. If it makes you unhappy to even think about it, then don't do it.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 12:57:16 am
content: I use liquid photo image-able solder mask . No film, direct laser exposure.Home made gear.Expose and develop in calcium hydroxide.Both solder mask and component overlay.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:07:03 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on February 23, 2019, 12:57:16 amUV laser?I've never heard of calcium hydroxide being used for "developing" liquid mask, I've only heard of (organic) solvents being used (chinese usually say "gasoline", I think the last time I ever tried I was using mineral turps).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:43:06 am
content: In the past I've used Pebeo Vitrea stained glass paint to make a solder mask in the past and it worked reasonably well. I haven't bothered in a long time though, a mask isn't really needed for DIY boards, if I do need it then I send out for the board.I still etch boards at home fairly frequently though, I've got the toner transfer process dialed in so it's a piece of cake. A while back I wired up a small TFT display then realized I needed a boost converter for the backlight driver. I whipped up a circuit from the datasheet, did a layout, etched and assembled, it was under 2 hours from idea to finished assembled working board. If I had ordered a board and waited the project would have been stalled for weeks, I wanted to get the hardware done and working that day and easily did so. If I want a one-off and it's something reasonably simple then it makes sense to do it myself, it's easy and costs almost nothing.Also it's kind of fun to etch a board, I mean why build anything myself when I can go out and buy a device ready made from China? It kind of defeats the purpose of a hobby to just go out and buy something. I've noticed there seem to be people who are compelled to project their own needs and interests on everyone else. They don't like doing something therefore it's a waste of time for anybody to do it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 09:58:50 am
content: QuoteI personally don't get the UV soldermask thing, so I can relate to AR. I am so curious to know why OP wants an improved homespun solder mask to the point he is talking about precision measuring equipment. I suspect this might be a coppercone2 type of thread, but I hold out hope for some actually reasonable reason. OP, it sounds like you want a surface plate and a dial indicator, BTW, to ensure your solder mask is the same thickness all the way around to the nearest thou. Should only set you back a few hundred dollars, unless your boards are insanely largeThe stuff on the market is essentially the same stuff the pros use, no? UV cured epoxy based paint? I think the pros apply with a silkscreen, though? Like the way they make high quality T shirts?Heck, on FPC the soldermask is essentially a piece of kapton tape with holes cut in it.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 11:41:01 am
content: Liquid phooimageable soldermask is is screen printed on,I have also tried short nap roller; results are so so .Screen printer with a bit of time to blend the layer cover gives good results prior to baking it for exposure.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:18:50 pm
content: So using your silkscreen plus laser CNC, I suppose you should get the same results as the professionals, more or less, but without making a custom silkscreen for every board.edit: I imagine it takes awhile to expose the entire board minus the pads, though. And there's the clean up after the silk screening.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:27:02 pm
content: correct. No product specific tooling, only soft tooling

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 07:49:26 pm
content: Well, there ya go. OP asked, and he got some cool answers. Two never before seen-on-TV DIY solder masks. IconicPCB pro-quality with just one re-useable silkscreen and a UV CNC laser cutter, and a quick and dirty solder mask with a Sharpie pen.If he's Coppercone2's twin brother, he will find theoretical problems with every known method without having tried any one of them, and will (maybe) one day come up with something better just by thinking real hard.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 11:12:04 pm
content: What happened in the coppercone2 thread?The only reason I've got for doing all this is simple. If something is worth doing, it's worth doing right. So I'm trying to figure out a way to make PCBs at home that have similar quality to a professionally made board. Not trying to re-invent the wheel here. PCBs have been made for a long time now and to make one these days should be easy as cake because everything should be known by now.I've got a dti, but I'm not sure whether it's up to the task. Was wondering if other people have experience in this regard.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 12:48:15 am
content: You're not going to achieve the same quality in a home etched PCB as you get from a commercial fab, at least not without a great deal of work and expense. Home etching has uses but I gave up trying to make anything really fancy when the Chinese boards got cheap. Now I just make boards at home when I want something right away or a quick one-off.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 05:15:59 am
content: QuoteI imagine you could. Probably for less than $10K in equipment, if your max PCB size is modest. The CNC mill is the most expensive part. But it's a process that requires a fair bit of dedicated space and a good deal of skilled labor.QuoteIt's not A thread. Copper is one of our esteemed members. He very enthusiastically comes up with ambitious, exotic solutions that solve problems that are already solved, but his ideas include some theoretical improvement in some regard (which no one else understands/appreciates) but which is usually impractical for other very obvious reasons. He has some objection to every existing solution and every offered suggestion. Then, after going on about it in a way which might give the impression that he has all the parts and equipment and could actually undertake this complex, expensive, and ambitious endeavor at any given moment, he comes to the conclusion that the most efficient solution is duct tape and a garbage bag.

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 08:21:38 am
content: Quote from: Mark on February 20, 2019, 10:43:03 amI could see in the last pic there are copper rivets, but what is the small pins that do not look like rivets? are they also "rivets" for "via"-ing?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 09:04:14 am
content: I assumed they were blobs of solder paste that had been applied with the stencil.

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 05:18:30 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on February 24, 2019, 08:21:38 amAs Fred27 guessed correctly, they are solder paste from the solder stencil, this was a 160 pin "Low Pin Count" FMC connector for the Zynq Zedboard. The connector was mounted in the bottom side of the board and reflowed at the same time as the top-side components.To make the rivet connections more reliable, I now place an octagonal SMT pad top & bottom so that the rivets get covered with solder paste.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 06:26:43 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 24, 2019, 05:15:59 amI would classify $10k in equipment, dedicated space and a good deal of skilled labor as "a great deal of expense and work".

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 02:17:31 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 24, 2019, 05:15:59 amThis will certainly not do.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 03:04:01 am
content: sample prior to immersion silver

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 05:19:07 am
content: ^Nothing wrong with that.QuoteI would, too. PixieDust never complained about the difficulty or cost of any of these methods. He has complained only of the quality and durability of results. I let him decide what is too much work or cost.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 06:15:06 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on February 25, 2019, 03:04:01 amNow there's something to write home about. Just to make sure I got this straght, you used screen printing for the soldermask and thesilkscreenwhite text?For exposure you used a laser CNC?

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 06:42:38 am
content: Material silkscreened on in both cases.Laser imaged directly on the PCB.Copper mechanically milled off.Holes activated and plated.Copper electrically testd against gerber net list.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2019, 10:49:00 pm
content: At silver stage .Surface finish suitable for wire bonding.

author: PixieDust
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 02:49:54 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on February 25, 2019, 06:42:38 amI was wondering why netlists existed. Now it makes sense!

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 04:15:15 am
content: Gerber net list is the second best reference.Your CAD package net list is the real source information.Gerber files can and do contain errors.There was a time when a well known CAD package had issues with generating correct Gerbers.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 05:55:11 am
content: That's a very serious bug. A PCB package that can't reliably spit out error free gerber files isn't worth having.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 06:38:58 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 28, 2019, 05:55:11 amIt's easy to say that, but that would exclude many widely appreciated, professional tools, such as Altium Designer, which has had serious gerber export bugs in the past (and probably still has some lurking around when you least expect it).Mistakes happen. Software always has bugs. That's why you need to double-check. Having a PCB EDA whichguaranteescorrect output files (and actually takes responsibility if not meeting this guarantee) would speed up the workflow and reduce the risk that errors slip through double-checking, but not a single PCB EDA manufacturer claims this feature.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 05:14:56 am
content: Sure software always has bugs, but to have a bug in such a fundamental base feature that occurs more often than that one in a million chance on some kind of really unusual PCB is inexcusable. I've watched the software industry slide downward for years now, company after company eliminates QA entirely either trying to rely entirely on automated testing or taking the Microsoft approach roping in a bunch of fanboys as unpaid testers and then using the paying customers as the final QA. The result is garbage, I refuse to be the QA on software I paid for and I refuse to pay for software that has not been properly tested.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 05:50:49 pm
content: Well, I agree with your reasoning, but it doesn't matter; with your criteria (however justified), you have no PCB design tool available. At least not any of the big ones people are actually fairly productive with (such as Altium). You can, of course, always refuse to design any PCBs - problem solved.Accepting proprietary, buggy, broken-by-design EDA software is one of those compromises which really hurts to make.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 06:41:22 pm
content: Well I don't know the nature of this specific Altium bug or how often it occurs, however in the ~8 years I've been using KiCad I have never had a problem with any board I've made that was caused by a bug in the software.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 01:44:12 am
content: Can JLCPCB make solder masks on their pcbs?