Help identify IC - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 02:40:29 pm
content: Trying to identify a Motorola IC, which is labeled:ZC410796CFU73486-03 ZMMA1D69JHLCN9901I believe it is a 64 pin TQFP. It is part of a Comfort Control Module for a Volkswagen car. I'm trying to test to see if the device is dead or not, and I can't find a pinout for it.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:19:22 pm
content: automotive microcontroller. Now owned by freescale. proprietary

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:28:01 pm
content: So then there is no way to get a pinout? Mostly, I want to see if voltage it getting to it.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:35:06 pm
content: Check to see if the oscillator is running (scope the xtal pins), that's a quick way of seeing if there's any life in it.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:38:44 pm
content: Okay.I'm a bit new with an O-scope, and have one of the Rigol 1052E's that's been softmodded for 100MHz.I just need to use one channel, and the clip lead to pin and the tip pin to the other?

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:46:15 pm
content: Clip the GND lead to a 0V connection (somewhere on the PCB ground plane), and probe the xtal pins one by one with the scope probe. You should see a 4MHz signal on both pins, probably at slightly different amplitudes.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 03:48:54 pm
content: Also, the PCB designer made it easy for you. In the photo you posted, immediately to the right of the xtal are 2 capacitors. Between them are 2 unpopulated pads. They look to be the 2 xtal pins, so you can probe there rather than trying to probe on the IC.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 06:37:21 pm
content: Cool!Here are some other pics of the board. Any help is appreciated on what to check out. I did check for voltage at the MOSFet at the top corner, and found nothing, but I might have not been testing it right (I used the DC ground as a common).

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 07:00:06 pm
content: I'm not sure how much work you've done so far to make you think that the microcontroller is the suspect but I'd take a step back and consider the things that are most likely to fail in a high vibration environment.Check carefully things like the connector to board solder joints, joints on heavier components like the relays (check relay coil continuity too), check the grounding, follow the supply circuit through, cracked passives etc.The micro will be pretty well protected from the outside world (unless you know that something nasty has happened on the 12V supply, eg. jump start), even then I'd check the power supply components first.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 08:11:00 pm
content: The microcontroller is just a starting point.This controller is basically the body control computer for a car. When I plug into the diagnostic port, I can't communicate with it. I have power going to the device, and the data lines are intact.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 08:25:49 pm
content: Quote from: neonhomer on January 11, 2016, 02:40:29 pmWhich one and year model?

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 12:45:07 am
content: Quote from: MT on January 11, 2016, 08:25:49 pm99 Volkswagen Passat (B5)I took the o-scope outside and probed the crystal. If I was reading my scope right, I was seeing 1.2MHz on only one pin.(I apologize for the picture... I didn't have a USB drive handy to capture to, and I'm still learning to use the 'scope.)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 03:44:37 am
content: (1)D69J is the mask set, andthis means it is a MC68HC05X32with mask ROM, you can find datasheet here:http://www.nxp.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/data_sheet/MC68HC05X16.pdf

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:18:26 am
content: If you are trying to repair a car, why not call around the junkyards and see if anyone has this model?

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:29:11 am
content: Did you have the ground clip from the scope probe attached? It doesn't look like it was.And I assume the module is totally dead? Have you powered it up on the bench? Are you using VCDS to try to communicate with it?

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 11:24:49 am
content: I tried the ground clip in two places. On that metal can to the right (which gave the shown results) and then also to the VDC ground for the device (which gave me nothing). I can get a pic of the back of the board to show what I am talking about.That's my next step is bench testing. I have a spare ECU (engine computer) and a bench harness for it for testing and experimenting. I'm going to hook this up with that and see what I can get.Trying to read it with VCDS was the first thing I did. The module (#46) is not communicating.I already have a replacement unit coming. I'm trying to figure out why and how this one failed.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:17:32 pm
content: If the scope probe really is properly (ie. successfully) grounded then the waveform on the crystal pins looks very unstable at best. There's always the vague possibility of a broken crystal, they are one of the more shock sensitive components after all. It looks like a bog standard 4MHz one that would be cheap to try replacing, its exact spec won't be critical.A long shot I know, but given the cost of these units, probably worth a try.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:38:37 pm
content: FYI - you don't need an ECU on the bench to communicate with the CCM. You can connect power directly to it and then connect to the K-line for diagnostics. I've spent lots of time hacking the CCM from the MKIV Golf/Jetta.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on January 12, 2016, 05:38:37 pmI did not know that. Will have to try that when I get home.The goal of this whole expedition is to not fix the unit, but find out what failed, and try to find out why. Brand new, these things run about $400 USD. Used they run for around $100. I don't want to plug a new one in, only to fry it upon powering.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:50:29 pm
content: Hard to say what went wrong, they are quite robust. Anytime power is applied they will be running. You will need to provide power to an accessory line to fully wake it up so you can communicate via the K-line. If you still have a remote programmed to it you can see if there is any change in current drain when the buttons are pressed. All programming in the internal eeprom is repeated three times so its unlikely it corrupted itself. The processor is also locked with a password but that can be cracked to allow reading of the masked rom and reading/writing to the bug fix eeprom area and car specific programming area.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:59:58 pm
content: I was talking with some people over on a VW forum, and one mentioned that he accidentally shorted his interior light to ground. Didn't blow the fuse, but the CCM died. I wonder if this is a possibility, as the shop was having a very hard time getting my door panels back on (They tried for 10 minutes. I walked over and did it in 30 seconds.) Maybe they grounded out one of the puddle lights in the doors. (One of them is missing the shroud around it.)That's interesting to know about how it is programmed.I'll have to throw it on the bench tonight and see what I can do with it.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 06:06:51 pm
content: That is quite possible, trace power and see if it is making it everywhere. Also try scoping the crystal again and see if you can get something more stable.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 06:10:26 pm
content: That's the thing. Everything in the car has power except for those listed above. No blown fuses. My accessory line is working from the ignition switch because I can see it come active (by multimeter) when I turn the key.I'm going to try to scope it on the bench (where I'm not sitting on a bucket beside my car with my scope on the driver's seat!) and see what I come up with.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 01:24:42 am
content: Well, either I am doing something wrong, or this CCM is dead. I have it wired up on the bench, and still cannot communicate with it. This is what I have set up:15/15 and 15/12 and 16/1 (DLC) to 12VDC+23/23 and 16/4 (DLC) to Ground23/3 and 23/5 as Switched 12VDC+23/11 K-Line to 16/7 on DLCI picked up another CCM from the junkyard today ($10 USD), and tried that in the car. Nothing. Same thing. I tried to communicate to both CCM's and nothing.I'm expecting a verified good CCM to arrive tomorrow. I'm going to put it on the bench straight out and see if I can talk to it.As for testing with the scope, I still get that jumping signal on the osc.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 04:19:18 am
content: Hmm, I suspect you're still missing a B+ connection somewhere but its been a few years since I had one powered up on the bench. I am trying to determine where my notes might be.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 06:06:36 am
content: Pulled out two CCM's and the cable I used to interface with them. They are MKIV so they aren't quite the same. These are 1C0959799C. I only had to apply power and ground on the larger of the two connectors. I also recall that I had to connect via the k-line within 30 seconds of powering up or the module went to sleep. I could also use a programmed remote to wake up the module and then connect to it. As long as you're connected it will stay awake.I have no idea how close/similar the wiring would be. On the MKIV module the wiring harness colors are orange for ground, positive is red with a black tracer and the K-line is grey with a white tracer.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 03:10:47 pm
content: Mine is a 1J0 959 799 AJ, with a blue harness plugs and a tan harness plug.I will have to try to get it all hooked up, and then try communication as soon as I get it up and running.One of the reasons I posted here on EEV (besides identifying the IC) was so I could figure out what died on this thing, and then either be able to repair it, or prevent it from happening again.

author: neonhomer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 03:11:16 am
content: Okay.. this is interesting... I have three of these now... Two junkyard ones, and the original one.I can't talk to all three of them. I did some poking around on the board, and found the CANBus chip. There is power (9v) to it. I have 12vdc on various points on the board. I still only have around .7vdc to the processor. This thing is almost acting like it is not fully powered up.Bad thing is, I can identify almost every pin on one harness, but the other one, I can only find two wires... the service manual doesn't show the rest.