InfraRed Thermometer Probe for multimeter, CEM China. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 10:49:14 pm
content: InfraRed Thermometer Probe ..Well I have many K-type probes and nothing as IR probe, and I suggested to CEM, to offer to me one sample of those too for a review.The pricing of it, is at about 50$ and it is available also in Germany a re branded, for 50 EUR.http://www.conrad.com/VOLTCRAFT-IR-550A-INFRARED-MEAS.ADAPTER.htm?websale7=conrad-int&pi=100989&ci=SHOP_AREA_17210_0510034&Ctx={ver%2F7%2Fver}{st%2F3ec%2Fst}{cmd%2F0%2Fcmd}{m%2Fwebsale%2Fm}{s%2Fconrad-int%2Fs}{l%2Fint%2Fl}{tpl%2Fint%2Ftpl_read_prod_rating.htm%2Ftpl}{sf%2F%3Cs1%3EVoltcraft+NFRARED+THERMOMETER%3C%2Fs1%3E%2Fsf}{p1%2Fbc17ffb9ee267f15454461ea2c19dd8d%2Fp1}{md5%2F6c61e04c96f3a891a65906fc4094a0a5%2Fmd5}Did any one have use one of those, so to offer an quick opinion ? / comments .

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 02:34:33 am
content: What advantages does it offer over a standalone infrared thermometer?

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 02:36:31 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 26, 2011, 02:34:33 amWhile the accuracy seems a bit lower than my Fluke (cheapest one they make), it's also about half the price. It would also allow for easy data logging of temps through your DMM or using min/max/avg or hold functions. My Fluke gives you a max reading, but it shuts off automatically about 10 seconds after you release the trigger, so you don't have them for very long.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 02:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: PetrosA on November 26, 2011, 02:36:31 pmI dont know about that Petro. It has a decent spot size but I cant see it being very useful having a fixed emissivity combined with its low accuracy. I see this being a tool to tell if it 'hot or not'. Granted, this can be useful in many areas.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 04:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 26, 2011, 02:34:33 amThe first practical that I can think:a) anti-stealing!! ( its just a probe and not a fancy complete device )b) It is more compact in size, so to have it in your tool box.c) You can keep the safety distance compared with K-type probes.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 04:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 26, 2011, 04:11:33 pmi dont get it, in order to work it needs you Fluke. and that Fluke, is "portable" too you know?Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 26, 2011, 04:11:33 pmno its not. combo'ed with your Fluke, thats gigantic!Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 26, 2011, 04:11:33 pmok this one reasonable! but still "standalone infrared thermometer" has this feature too.

author: tamtam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 12:05:23 am
content: I don't think thats an good idea. You see just the target OR the value on the meter. With an normal IR-Meter (gun-style) you see the booth at the same time.anti-stealing ... Buy no tools ... nobody will steal anything. Or do it like me, I have a BIG hammer in my toolbox for people who try to.And I hope nobody really think, he can really measure copper rails or some other metal like on the pic with this tool.But I like to see NEW ideas and not just copy's (like DT-9978/9) from CEM.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 12:33:47 am
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 27, 2011, 12:05:23 amI was misled about this subject too, but I am not any more.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=5342.msg73849#msg73849About the "stealing part" when I was working in a factory, stealing was an major problem,and usually every one was covering up the thief because he was his fellow worker.And the question is : and what the Maintenance electrician are ? The soldier who had fall behind the enemy lines ?When you work as freelancer its another story, your tools are a bit safer.And the most important than all, are that you are working with your own tools, and you do care more about them, so you are more careful.About my comment about the anti-stealing , it goes to the part of the story, thatyou doneed a multimeter so to operate it.And so its not practical to use, as if it would be a dedicated unit like the pistol shaped ones.I am not expert about the accuracy of such temperature probes, but I count on the high accuracy of the mV range of the industrial meters,if they are good enough so to operate on them the hall type ampere clamps, why not to trust also and the infrared thermometers ?

author: tamtam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 02:53:21 am
content: First ... it's sad we can buy just the low end meters from CEM in europe.Second ... I work in industry too. I know tools can fly away to somewhere very quickly, special when I work with other people. Then is most time not stealing, just they forget it somewhere, or "your screwdriver ... oh it felt down in that crack , in that deeeep hole , behind whatever.... sorry"Third ... back in that thread:QuoteWith the IR meter you just measure IR-radiation NOT the temperature. So each material has a different emissivity value. This value means how much IR-radiation, in the comparison to a black body (ideal source), goes out of some material. For metal the value is about 1 to 30%, for non metal usually over 90%. On this CEM tool the value is fixed to 95%, so you can't get a real value from any metal.AND materials with a low emissivity value reflect the IR radiation from around very good (like a mirror). And from around there is the rest of the IR-radiation.For example: You measure something metallic (emissivity value 15%). That means just 15% of the measured radiation comes from the metal. 85% from the measured radiation comes from anywhere around.So it's almost not possible to measure the temperature on metal with IR. The problem is really not the multimeter.And there are many other factors also for really exact IR-measurement.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 03:31:05 am
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 27, 2011, 02:53:21 amIn most cases, it is really easy to work around this. Most paints and tapes are close to the 95% emissions. So if you have some electrician tape or masking tape, put it on the metal and you will get a good reading from the IR temperature meter. If a heatsink is already painted, then it will give a good reading as well.You need to learn what works, so get a big block of metal, attach a thermocouple, put it in the oven and heat it to say 100 DegC. Turn off the oven and the temperature will slowly fall.Put different tapes, paints, crayons or whatever you have on it and measure the IR temperature. See what gives you IR readings that match the thermocouple readings. Keep testing as the temperature goes down to room temperature so you know it was not a one temperature fluke.Once you have found what works best, always use that on everything.Copper bus bars, aluminum, stainless steel - all now no problem at all.Richard

author: tamtam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 02:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: amspire on November 27, 2011, 03:31:05 amYes of course I know the tape trick. It's also possible to buy super expensive "super special IR-Tape".I think is just important to know how IR-measurement works. I saw people they believed an IR-Gun can really measure the temperature and believed also it,s the true value. Like it's 63.3°C and not 63.2°C and not 63.4°C but is easy possible you are 10°C or even more away from the real value.Measure the temperature with IR is easy and quick. And like you say find what you think is best for you. Learn to know when you can trust to the measured value and when not.Finally I still prefer the Gun-style. You can move easy a little bit around and always see the measured temp. With this tool is difficult to move around and keep an eye on the temperature. So it's more difficult finally to guess the real temperature.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2011, 02:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 27, 2011, 02:25:52 pmfrom this statement, i'd rather stick with K-type sensor, insulate it properly if i expect HV, and do the measurement. the point of IR is we dont get near it IMHO.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 04:19:08 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 27, 2011, 02:55:21 pmIf you can put a K-Type sensor on it, you can put some tape on it, and the tape is a lot cheaper and easier. If you can take a spray can, and people don't mind a bit of overspray, then you can paint a patch from 100mm away. A lot of times, things are already painted, so you can use IR without doing anything. As long as it is not a metallic paint.

author: tamtam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 09:14:27 pm
content: I thought I make some sample IR-picts. So everyone can see how the "IR view" looks like. On the photo you see the all the objects. It's a small peace of copper with different tape on both sides and I cleaned quickly one side. One other object is an cable lug (is it right???) for 500mm2 alu cable. An (alu-) level, a little bit cable, a short peace of plastic pipe and tape.The first IR-picture I made when I came home. I took the things from the car direct to the basement and made the picture. And of course all things have the same temperature. But the raw IR-picture say a difference from about 5..6ºC.Later (after dinner) I went outside with everything. The first picture (outdoor1.jpg) is from house to "nowhere". The reflecten is pretty much just the cold, a little bit cloudy sky. On this pic is easy to see the difference between the clean and not so clean copper. The clean copper reflect the cold sky very good.The second outdoor picture is from garden to my home. The reflection is this time the wall. I made the picture just a few seconds after, but the values on the metal are different.The last IR-pic is not an IR-photo from me, no is just an reflection on the alu plate. The raw IR value tell you an big temperature difference, but of course there is no difference.The emission value I kept on 0.95, but the IR-Images are still keeping all information from FLIR inside, so if someone wanna play around with it, please do it.And yes ... the difference are usually just large on plain metal. On tape or plastic is the difference is not that big.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2011, 09:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 27, 2011, 02:53:21 amWell the temperature in high voltage bars , if there is an issue it can get even above the 200C .Basically the IR temperature sensors haves a usability at the point that you can not use any K-type probe.I am not aware your personal experiences with any CEM products, but soon I will find out how their top of their range behaves.

author: Wim_L
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 02:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 28, 2011, 09:16:54 pmTrue, but 200°C isn't even close to the maximum temperature for type K. They're good even over 1200°C if the insulation is chosen properly, though prolonged exposure will slowly damage them (that's higher than what many cheap IR thermometers are designed for). Some even higher temperature thermocouples exist that are used to measure in molten steel.

author: mobbarley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 02:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 28, 2011, 09:14:27 pmWhat a great toyIt also proves that the tape works quite well.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 10:00:15 pm
content: CEM have made an video about their company PR, in it they claim that they are the first who had got a license about making IR-thermometers for the human body.Should I suppose, that in them they use some sort of superior electronics hardware ?What would be the specs of the best ever IR-thermometer ?

author: tamtam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 10:46:01 pm
content: There are usually two values. Accuracy and thermal sensitivity. Fluke has a thermometer (574) with 1% accuracy and the display shows 0,1 °C steps. That accuracy is pretty good I think. FLIR has just one IR camera the P660 with that accuracy of 1% (all other cameras have 2%). But thermal sensitivity is 30mK (0,03 °C) for each pixel.With the fluke is just one problem. The accuracy is just when the working temp is between 23°C and 25°C. So you never have it because it's getting much warmer if you have it in your handBut there is something funny. FLIR is THE company for IR-cameras. They have a long history. They have really great IR-sensors built in there cameras (the sensors are ways better than the ****** software on the new cameras and the ****** reporter software). FLIR is the owner from EXTECH and EXTECH is built by CEM as we all know. FunnyAnd yes is true, some new cameras from FLIR suddenly freeze and you have to remove and insert again the battery. Pretty poor software for that much money

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2011, 11:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: tamtam on November 29, 2011, 10:46:01 pmEXTECH have more partners than just CEM, and I am not against of such partnerships,mostly because, some times, the truly worthy products all that they need is a bit of help about distribution.