eBay rant as a seller - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:47:13 am
content: I received my very first negative feedback as an eBay seller today and I feel really upset about itSorry for being a whiner but I just wanted to get this off my chest.This buyer sent me a message yesterday stating that the multimeter I sent was "faulty". It's a one-liner and there was no other description other than it being "faulty". So I replied within an hour (at 6:54am my local time) asking politely if he/she could describe the problem a bit and possibly a video to show it, to which the buyer responded he/she could do it after work in the evening. As we live in very different time zones the buyer sent another message asking for an email address to send it to while I was asleep (2:43am my local time). Perhaps I could have suggested some ways for the buyer to upload the video in my original reply but people who know eBay would understand that including an email address using the eBay messaging system is not easy (particularly as a seller as I could get warnings and negative impact on my account if I get caught doing so). Anyway, a few minutes later the buyer left me a negative feedback: "Faulty item was sent and had to take a video nd somehow send it to them to prove". I wasn't given any chance to deal with the problem at allI would have had no problem at all sending a replacement unit, I just wanted to make sure if it was necessary.Was my request for more description and/or a video not a fair one?I have worked very hard to make sure all of my thousands of customers are happy yet things like this still happenI knew this was going to happen one day but it doesn't make that any less frustrating...Rant over. Sorry.--Franky

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:56:27 am
content: Ebay is shit. That is all.

author: rfbroadband
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:03:12 am
content: no what you did sounds reasonable to me. Sometimes one has to deal with strange people, unfortunately you received negative feedback....sorry nothing else I can ad here.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:07:03 am
content: Hey, almost every proper seller on eBay has a couple negatives.Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 02:56:27 amAnd customers are assholes. Don't believe me, sit in a fast food restaurant for half an hour...You gave me pickles! I didn't want pickles! May twelve generations of your descendents be cursed!! Roar!!!Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 11, 2014, 02:47:13 amPerfectly fair. It's not like you said "Prove it, you scamming bastard!", you politely asked for clarification. The last time I wrote to a seller about broken stuff they asked for a photo; I responded with one like the non-complete-asshole I like to think I am

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:07:42 am
content: C'mon Franky, with your reputation as seller now, don't think you need to overly rely on ebay for selling.Hey, where is your shop thread that you promised in the Buy&Sell section ?Btw, the listing problem you had while ago is coming back I think, sometimes I still failed to see a complete listing of the items at your ebay shop, some items were missing, but sometimes they just popped up again. Worst, sometimes no items at all.

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:31:50 am
content: Contact eBay. You give them your number and they call you back on their Dime--in a few seconds. I've found them to be genuinely helpful in various buying and selling situations.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:32:50 am
content: You can leave a reply that will show up under his feedback. Though with your current rating, it's probably not needed.I'm also about 90% sure that if you report the negative feedback to eBay, they will delete it for you. Just explain that the buyer wasn't patient and didn't want to work with you even though you were willing to work with him. They'll check and remove it.Also see his buy history and his feedback, if he left a bunch of negative reviews for bogus reasons that's only going to help you out.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:34:13 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 11, 2014, 03:07:42 amYes, yes, it will come. Watch the space at franky.com. It will initially just be a bunch of links to my eBay pages, just so everyone would be able to access them regardless of eBay's non-sense from time to time. Eventually it will be my own store front.QuoteAre you seeing an empty store at the moment? My sales have been down quite a lot this month compared to Jan and FebThis could partly be due to the fact that I'm out of stock on some Brymen multimeters which bring in quite a few customers, but I suspect eBay is having its usual issues again...

author: ron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:35:28 am
content: Sorry to hear about your problem Franky. As a seller, sometime you just have to take your licks. I have over 500 positives as a seller. My only negative was for something I listed as "Broken- for parts" and the guy bitched because it didn't work!Last year I sold a Leica lens to someone in Japan and the guy bitched because it wouldn't fit his Canon camera. I refunded money plus $75 shipping both ways to avoid neg feedback. I know there are dishonest sellers, but there are a lot of dipshit buyers too.Ebay just skims 13%+ off the top including paypal. What pisses me off is that they charge fees on shipping.Everyone here knows you are a good guy Frankie. Good luck in the future!

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:38:26 am
content: Quote from: mariush on March 11, 2014, 03:32:50 amThanks for the advice. I'm waiting on his response before I click the "report buyer to eBay" button next to his feedback, as I believe I can initiate a feedback revision request if the buyer agrees. This particular buyer didn't leave many comments before for his/her other transactions and none were negative so it seems like it's just a lack of patience on a bad day

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:44:41 am
content: Frankie,although you did nothing "wrong", the customer was most likely upset about his purchase and may have interpreted your offer of assistance as "bad meter ? prove it !!"I work as a technical consultant with the medical instrumentation. 99% of the time the customer is wrong but 100% of the time we always start by indicating "we are here to help and weWILLmake this right".Offering an immediate replacement up front and then sneaking in a "by the way, would you mind doing a quick check to help me understand what is wrong with the meter ....."in some cases may make all the difference.

author: TheRuler8510
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:56:55 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 11, 2014, 02:47:13 amFranky,As a heavy eBay buyer, I consider 99% positive feedback as essentially the same as 100% feedback, since you have to expect about one out of a hundred people to be unreasonable no matter what you do.So don't look at it as being so bad. You are in good company.I look at anything worst than 3% negative to be fishy and 8% or worse means avoid. Of course the numbers are different depending on product category.Regards,

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:02:32 am
content: I've been meaning to get in touch with you for ages. PM me a price incl shipping to New Zealand for a BM869 and I'll take one off your hands. If you have no stock, no problem; I can wait.Perhaps that'll take some of the sting out.Aaron.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:03:18 am
content: You can still contact the buyer and do a feedback revision request, but the buyer will have to agree to it.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:22:38 am
content: There is a general rule in assessing data, throw out the lowest result, and the highest result and work on the rest of the data as valid. There is also another general rule: the majority of happy people do nothing, the majority of unhappy people make noise. Ignore the assholes and do your best. Don't take anything personally in business and move on.You have my full respect Franky and that is all that should count

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:23:21 am
content: A large majority of negative feedback I see is from bad shipping so of course they blame the seller. When I buy from ebay, I usually just care that the seller has something like 98.9% or about that and above. Its a given that some people are just idiots.As a buyer, I dont care to complain unless what I receive is completely wrong or just plain broken when it shouldnt have been.(I dont typically like buying stuff for parts etc from ebay anyway)Any feedback <98% I find a bit suspicious. When you have a couple thousand items sold though, you need quite a few negatives to have it dip that much.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:25:50 am
content: No one reading that negative feedback would hold it against you. The buyers says in his own words that you asked for a video of the fault which is perfectly reasonable. The text says nothing bad about you at all.Did you send it with a battery inside?They probably took it out of the box turned the dial and saw no digits light up, then swore and threw it in the rubbish.Some people are like that.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:36:09 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on March 11, 2014, 03:44:41 amThat is very good advice! Thanks a lot. I will try that in my future dealing with my customers.Big THANKS also to all the others who commented. I really appreciate all the support.

author: uoficowboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:39:34 am
content: I had one buyer purchase an item and immediately leave me neutral feedback stating "when will I receive my item?" As in - he posted feedback the same day as he purchased the item.Another buyer bought an item, contacted me stating that my price was too high as they had found it cheaper elsewhere - so I refunded their payment (as they requested) and did not ship the item. They promptly (as soon as they got the refund) left me a negative feedback saying it was a rip off.Yep. Ebay sucks. But it's a necessary evil.

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:51:41 am
content: As an ebay buyer, if a seller has 2000+ feedback and 99.9% positive i won't even think twice about purchasing from them. I only really look at feedback if they have less than 98% and if the negative feedback is mostly stupid buyers then i'll still buy from them...

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:59:40 am
content: Hi Franky,You can take all the great suggestions and maybe print them on a 1/2 page paper and stick them with your items? Ask them to give you 2 business days to await for a reply so it takes into consideration timezones, emergencies, etc.And yes keep in mind there are dishonest buyers who try to extort good sellers. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it does happen.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 06:17:02 am
content: Quote from: george graves on March 11, 2014, 04:03:18 amYes, the buyer can change it to neutral (but not positive). I did it once, as a buyer, the seller posted a picture of a very clean MX500 and then send me a unit that was clearly different and not as good condition as the one he posted. We talked over the phone, agreed on a fair price for the actual unit, and I removed the negative feedback. This was a dilemma for me because the 100% positive feedback I helped him to maintain is in a sense deceiving.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:18:50 am
content: As a buyer, and seller, I most certainly agree, ebay sucks.The fees are crazy, i don't mind listing fees, but holy shit, final value fees? I sell a $1000 item, what makes you think you deserve $100 for your services, considering you do exactly the same things if i sell a $20 item and you want $2?As a seller you're at the mercy of buyers, one thing I have done is stuck 100% by ebay rules, don't tell them to send xyz to your email or whatnot, just ask for pictures, attached to an inbox message, if you are unsure if the item is faulty or not, pay for return shipping and say you will send a replacement or a refund when the old one arrives.If the buyer finds this unacceptable and leaves negative feedback; report it to ebay, all of the information is there in each users inbox.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:24:52 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 11, 2014, 04:25:50 amI don't even bother reading feedback, it's pointless.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:28:06 am
content: There's always going to be the 1% dipshit and ebay/paypal will take their side regardless.Fees are just horrendous, I hope they all wear masks. Don't forget the 3.5% paypal fee on top of your ebay 10%, then they want £15/month to have a "shop".They also are sneaky bastards, sell something at £1000, buyer changes their mind and you refund... no problem there.But if you forget to manually "close the case" (within 30 days I think) ebay still take their £100.00.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:45:48 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on March 11, 2014, 09:18:50 amEbay only sucks for sellers. As in completely totally sucks. The only saving grace left after all these years of changes that squeeze sellers, is that it's still "the place" to be if you want the widest audience.Ebay is pretty awesome for buyers, and you can't argue with the PayPal protection.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:47:30 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 11, 2014, 04:36:09 amFrankie,as a businessman, you are likely to continue to deal with folks who demand immediate action and always believe they are right. This doesn't necessarily make them "1% dickheads". Some of the most profitable customers I have dealt with (and we are talking multi-million dollar medical installs) can also be the most frustrating to deal with. Why? Because they are "dickheads?"No. Really quite the opposite. They are usually the most considerate and facilitating people I know. They don't verbally make demands but their actions - or more precisely their inaction- can make large demands on your time and your patience.Sometimes us Teckies get all jacked up about getting things done in a hurry when a customer who has a facilitating style wants (needs) to take their time in making a decision. The techy mindset wants to walk in with all his great facts, figures or prices and slam the deal shut. But the facilitator wants to sit down with you, get to know you and have a cup of coffee before he opens up your proposal. You decline the invite to a cup of coffee and a piece of pie and you may actually put his business at risk. In the opposite, you walk into Mr. D. Head's office and propose going to lunch to get to know each other better and he will tell you you have 5 minutes to put the deal on the table before he leaves for his next appointment.Neither person is right or wrong but they do have distinctly different COMMUNICATION STYLES. It is YOUR JOB to deal with both those styles successfully. Tons of books and materials have been written on the subject. I thought it was all phooey back in 1975 when I was employed at Corning Glass Works. My first two weeks employed by Corning was not spent learning instrumentation but at a Xerox training facility in Maryland. I was eager to just get to work with electronics - not to learn copier salesmanship - but my employer saw the value in learning customer communication styles. It took me about 10 years to realize the power of what I learned and how a simple show of empathy and "I'm sorry you had that problem with your instrument" can make or break a deal with customers. I can now look back after 40 years of uninterrupted employment and a six figure salary and with certainty, this simple understanding of communication styles played a very big part in my life.Sorry to ramble but I can sense this incident bothers you, and that's good. It indicates you are a good man who cares about your customers. If I did not see that quality, my answer would have been much shorter.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 11:06:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 09:24:52 amI disagree. I always read the negative and neutral feedback to see how a seller handles problems. In most cases the negative feedback is bogus but in some cases it does provide valuable information about the seller. There are stupid sellers and stupid buyers.

author: tjb1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 11:20:12 am
content: Quote from: mariush on March 11, 2014, 03:32:50 amTook me a 4 hour phone call to get a negative removed from someone who never even paid after winning the auction. They won the auction, never paid, when I pressed for payment they said I deceived them (because they couldn't read and didn't comprehend it until after winning the auction, how convenient) and then left me the negative feedback.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 11:32:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 09:45:48 amI disagree, have been ripped off tens of $ a few times now because I trusted the sellers to re-ship the goods another time because the first time it never arrived. Probably not even the fault of the seller but the chinese shipping company.Problem with china stuff is that it takes almost as long to arrive as the Ebay feedback and Paypal protection deadlines. So next time something does not arrive within 4 days before the end of the feedback or paypal protection ends I must get my money back or force it back because after it the buyer is screwed. I always trust people but after a few of these incidents I stopped with that on Ebay.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 11:40:38 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2014, 11:06:50 amAgree with your always reading the negative feedback.Anyone can be your friend when things are going smoothly. I judge by how issues are handled when things go wrong.

author: Richard Head
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 01:14:40 pm
content: Anyone can be your friend when things are going smoothly. I judge by how issues are handled when things go wrong.Never a truer word spoken.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 01:51:46 pm
content: Some people are just clueless dicks who will never be happy.The best defence is to make sure your listings are accurate and mention any issues however small. I've had people complain about not getting things not pictured or mentioned in the listing, and others thart seem to think it's my fault that they haven't paid.Don't worry about the occasional neg - anyone with half a brain will ignore it.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: ron on March 11, 2014, 03:35:28 amWell, that is sort of a logical response to many sellers trying to hide price in the shipping, either to confuse buyers or to sort higher in the list. I mean, if you list an US$20 'fits in envelope' item for US$1 with US$19 shipping, you force both eBay and buyer to only consider the total sum.

author: tjb1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:22:49 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on March 11, 2014, 02:17:14 pmYes, very common back before they implemented the fees. Just a couple weeks ago someone had an item listed ~$6 with $60 shipping and comparable items were ~$70. I asked them about it and just got a BS response but I would bet you aren't getting that money back if you return it.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:29:10 pm
content: With online sale that is far away and when return is costly, the buyer frustration is understandable. As a consumer, they buy things to consume and to use. So if things don't work, and asking for a video shoot and then UPLOAD can be a time cosuming task if they do not do them frequently. And even if they do, they must be thinking why should they be doing all these.If you look at it as a single deal, 1 individual to another individual, you would want the buyer to understand you too. But if they are likely looking at you as a merchant then they would be more demanding. The biggest problem I found is with ebay, they are not doing the arbitration work seriously. and being very profit-centrics, They are not backing up their money-back claim with their own money. As a result, people avoid ebay totaly or become very edging when things go wrong.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 09:45:48 amI disagree, the improved buyer protections were 100% necessary, and I still get ripped off from time to time.Quote from: Kjelt on March 11, 2014, 11:32:40 ameBay CS told me that the rules have been changed, at least in the US... the INR claim deadline is now 30 days after the last delivery date in the listing.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:52:54 pm
content: I remember selling a stick of DDR2 memory, some time ago, and some idiot bought it. He THOUGHT it was DDR3, and when it wouldn't go in, BLUNTLY PUSHED the damn DIMM in. Naturally, it didn't work afterwards, and this guy INSISTS that I sold him something non working and opens a case with eBay. Luckily, this time, it was decided in my favor.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 05:15:36 pm
content: Well, If you would ask me to document a faulty unit with a video I would at least be annoyed.There is a reason I am not a video blogger. I lack the talent, the interest and the equipment. So for me a seller asking me to prove something with a video would awfully look like someone trying to make me jump through hoops.If then a second issue cones up, like no place in eBay to upload such a video, but a request to mail it to some address outside eBay - and thus circumventing a track record showing me promptly responding to the seller's demand, so weakening my case - I would start to get nervous.One more thing and I would think someone is playing games and trying to take me for a ride. I.e. time to open a case with eBay or, if the item is not very expensive and I don't want to deal with an annoying seller any longer, a negative feedback.

author: photonpunk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 05:38:23 pm
content: I used to sell on ebay some, I rarely do anymore since ebay is so slanted towards the buyer and against the seller now.I have been burned a few times as a buyer, but I still consider ebay a very useful tool for finding good deals.Looking at my recent history... I just bought a $100 fume extractor for for $25. Works perfect. Bought some 555 timer chips for a fraction of what they cost anywhere else. Bought some heat shrink tubing, came in a cracked case, guy sent me another case of it for free. Bought a ceramic thermostat I couldn't find anywhere else, which allowed me to save an expensive room heater from the landfill. Then I bought a pair of third hands that came broken, had to mail back for refund.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 06:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 11, 2014, 11:06:50 amSame here. If 99.5% of customers gave positive feedback I have 99.5% to be happy with this transaction.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 06:56:22 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on March 11, 2014, 04:23:21 amIsn't that the correct one to blame? Who else is to blame for bad shipping? The buyer?The one who has influence on how safely something arrives is the one who puts the item in the box.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on March 11, 2014, 06:56:22 pmIf I ship you something, and UPS loses it, who are you gonna blame? Me. I don't run UPS.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:25:21 pm
content: No. We were talking about bad shipping. Not lost shipping.Who's responsible for Dave's µRulers escaping out of their envelope

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:29:48 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on March 11, 2014, 07:25:21 pmThat there would be a valid point.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:30:06 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on March 11, 2014, 04:23:21 amWhile shipping could come from postage delays, I distrust especially Asian sellers. I am fairly sure some are just dropshippers who shift the order to the next link in the chain (who could also be a dropshipper) and in total they easily add up more then a week before it is actually shipped.Why do I think so? I have a few (and I return to them to buy again) specific seller names that areconsistentlyfast: always less then 2 weeks, often only 10 days from China to Europe (8 days is my personal best). If they can do that consistently, others from the same regions must be plain lying when they mark it as shipped the same day.Not that I give them negative feedback. If I order cheap from China, I should not be in a hurry. But I do add specific wording into the text of the feed back, and I look out for feedback from others in the same manner. So a 98.9% feedback with several "fast" descriptions will get my order sooner then a 99.1% without them.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:34:28 pm
content: eBay really needs to add shipping time to their feedback system. As in, when you give your feedback, you enter how many days it took until you received the item. And the seller feedback should show something like "average delivery time to the US: x days, to Europe: y days" etc.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:35:24 pm
content: +1

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: jancumps on March 11, 2014, 06:56:22 pmIt depends what the complaint is about.I've been selling on eBay for years and I have been a "top rated seller" for the past 18 months. I offer the buyer a choice of shipping options. They almost always choose the cheapest option, and sometimes complain that they are unhappy with the service. It's not my fault that they chose the shipping option that can take 3-4 weeks. Nor is it my fault that their package is held in customs. Nor is it my fault that they were assessed too much (in their opinion) in customs duty.If an item was badly packaged or such, then it may be a legitimate complaint, but the vast majority of shipping negatives are about delivery time or the carrier requiring a signature, etc. To blame the seller for those is akin to blaming the doctor for your flu.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 11, 2014, 03:38:26 amWord of advice... don't bother with the "report this feedback". It achieves nothing.I have used that button numerous times and eBay has never ever responded. Ever. You must call them.I think it is *highly* unlikely they will remove the feedback. They have a very short list of standard reasons they will remove - in my case, one was a "negative positive" where the buyer left a negative but his comment was something like "great seller, very happy". The other was a customer who ordered something in white and then complained that he ordered black. There was a clear paper trail showing he purchased white, so I got it removed.However, feedback removal is so strict that unless the specific statement in the feedback is wrong, it likely won't get removed. So in my case if the buyer who ordered white had written "bad seller, very unhappy", it almost certainly would not have been removed.I've unfortunately gone round and round with eBay on this and their attitude is "buyers are free to dislike you or the transaction for any reason... feedback is simply their opinion and sometimes their opinion may be wrong, but they are still entitled to it".Do NOT respond to his feedback under any circumstances. Firstly because he can then reply to your response, and secondly because if the feedback is later removed, your response will still remain.The unspoken truth behind all of this is that eBay doesn't WANT your feedback to be too good, because then you might earn "Top Rated" status which gives you a 20% discount on all your final value fees, which is big. You basically have to prostrate yourself and accept trampling by an unhappy/unreasonably buyer if you want to avoid the negative.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:47:51 pm
content: I note that ebay are about to make sellers jump through even more hoops in the the name of improving the "buyer experience".I'm not against this - sometimes ebay purchases just don't work well, especially for international transactions but they are not making changes I'd like to see as a buyer. It's not much good getting a full refund when sending an item back to the seller is half the purchase cost. This would be fine if I'd changed my mind but when I receive something which is nothing like the item description it is galling to say the least. For me changing the onus for return postage from the buyer to seller where goods are defective or not as described would be a significant improvement (and one which fits better with the law in the UK) but they seem reluctant to do so.It wouldn't change anything for me as a seller because I will pay for recovery anyway.I think ebay have started thinking of themselves as a competitor to Amazon and want their sellers to fall in line, I'm not sure they really want to keep the occasional private sellers. Nor am I sure they want to retain small volume niche businesses either.Butif want to sell tech stuff ebay is pretty much the only game in town, certainly in the UK. If I search "oscilloscope" I get 1,206 hits and if I look at just the 965 "Electrical & Test Equipment" hits almost all are actually oscilloscopes or directly relevant (there are a few probes and the odd tek plugin).If I look on "ebid" which "Auction Lot Watch" tells me it's the 2nd largest site I get just 16 hits, 5 of which are for back copies of "Practical Wireless", most of the rest are parts and I can see just one complete 'scope, gumtree seems a bit better with 10 actual 'scopes for sale but the bottom line is that if I want to sell a refurbed analogue 'scope like it or lump it ebay is the only place I can go - if there isn't a good choice of items the buyers won't be there either.As for adding ebay charges to postage - that sucks. I mean why FFS should ebay get to charge that - but, I'm afraid, it's completely down to unscrupulous sellers charging pennies for the item and loading the postage price t get around ebay fees.Oh and if you think ebay is expensive take a look at bricks and mortar auction houses. 20% buyers premium and 20% VAT are not uncommon in the UK. It's true that the seller gets the amount at which the hammer fell and its more transparent that the buyer is paying the fees but the bids will be accordingly lower.Quoteebay needs to differentiate between despatch time and shipping time and needs to recognise that the buyer plays a part. For a recent sale the courier couldn't complete the delivery the first time and the buyer booked a pick-up, which he then took five days over. In the end I got good feedback so all was well but all too easily that ends up looking like I took 10 days to deliver something with a target of 5. For the 'scope probes I send them 1st class - it's not worth sending them tracked so I'm at the mercy of Royal Mail.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:04:08 pm
content: wow, lots of discussion here!in the past i used to worry about sellers having 100% feedback but now 98 & 99 % are still fine if the seller has a few 1000s worth of positive.its not just ebay you get buyers that either are completely clueless or abuse the system, in the EU the Distance Selling Regulations are regularly abused by buyers outside ebay.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:26:11 pm
content: I ordered a few items from a seller in New England about two weeks ago I live in Mississippi. The items were sent in a 1st Class mail package. I haven't left any feedback yet because I'm not sure how to rate it. I ordered the items on Feb 27, the packaged was apparently not received by USPS until March 4 and I received the package on March 7. Personally I consider this to be very slow shipping on the seller's end, but I'm reluctant to leave poor rating because I still got the stuff in only about a week.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 11, 2014, 09:26:11 pmSo he wasn't able to ship on Friday or Monday. PO may have been closed Saturday, some of the ones around me are. NBD.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 11, 2014, 07:47:51 pmI remember when that was popular. $2000 Intel Xeon CPUs, sold for $1 with $1800 shipping

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:57:26 pm
content: oh, so that was you i gave that negative to?jk.ive been on ebay since 02, left over 400 feedbacks, and i just had to leave my first negative last week.item had blurry pics up, but description said it was fine, and would be disassembled for shipping. promised shipping within 1 day f payment and stated that id have my item by the 7th. bought, paid. on the 10th, i get an email asking if i still wanted it. that was the first wtf?!?! yeah, thays why i paid for it, asshole. sent me a tracking number. was not released on his side for shipment til he 15th.then i get the box. total clusterfuck. he put it (guitar) into a box stuffed with his household garbage, apparently, for packing material. body was smashed to shit. all of the screws and plates he took off to disassemble were gone. many other parts were gone. parts that were left and described as good were broken and ruined (and not from the bad shipping like the body).late shipping, ok. a broken part, ok. bad description, ok. missing parts, ok. but somehow, this guy managed to fuck up EVERY SINGLE DAMN ONE OF THESE. then he sends me a msg, ill give a full refund if returned (on my dime) by the 28th. i got this message on the evening of the 27th.on ebays behalf, they did send me a return shipping label and guaranteed theyd credit my account for a refund, but at this point, i had to go to a ups store to use the return ticket (an hr trip each way) and frankly, i was just sick and tired of the whole situation and just decided to cut my losses than wast any more time on this asshole.so yeah, sometimes ebay is shit. this all just happened 2 days ago, and i just had to vent somewhere.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:05:18 pm
content: QuoteYes, and even better when it didn't work all the seller had to refund was the $1In this case I think ebay didn't have a lot of choice, but we now have the situation where everyone is penalised because of a few fuckwit sellers.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 01:41:05 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on March 11, 2014, 05:15:36 pmThat's fair enough, and that's why I asked also for at least a description of the problem besides it being "faulty".In any case, after a few message exchanges I finally got the buyer to describe the problem for me and it's actually a non-issue. The buyer thought the random reading on the meter (I presume it's set on the voltage range) was a fault when it is not connected to anything. I have now told him/her to try shorting the probes and see if a stable zero reading can be achieved. I even took a short video and uploaded to Youtube (as a private video) to demonstrate that it's normal behaviour. The buyer did indicate he/she would be willing to retract the feedback if it was proven incorrect so there is still hope. Fingers crossed...

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 04:59:37 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 12, 2014, 01:41:05 amSoo... the guy bought a meter with no idea on how to use it?Just the kind of people we love to have on eBay...It might just be me but I seem to attract first time buyers that buy stuff and never seem to use eBay again... They don't seem to get auctions. Both times I have had auctions end within 24 hrs and they choose buy it now- in one case the BIN was $150 more than the auction (with no bids). Then the guy complained because it "was a bit expensive"... Umm.... ok....

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 06:20:59 am
content: Quote from: TheBorg on March 12, 2014, 04:59:37 amEhm ... It is the kind of people who are encouraged, not to say spoon-feed, her on this very forum, to go out and buy their first meter.QuoteOh, you mean the eBay kind of "auctions", which aren't really auctions? With a phonebook of constantly changing rules and many traps for the young player? With sketchy, random, arbitrary rule enforcement? On a site that is an international breading ground for the next generation of conman? With a dodgy payment system? And power-users who, after years of using eBay, still can't figure the best way to place a bid (early fire-and-forget, late, late with sniper, make an offer, buy now, etc.)?

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 06:51:41 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on March 12, 2014, 06:20:59 amIs the payment system really that dodgy? I feel safer using Paypal then using credit cards. At least with Paypal I left my details only at in one place, if you leave it in dozens of seperate shops, even if all of them are of good trustworthy intend, statistic risk of one being hacked is a too large.QuoteEasy:- New stuff with hundreds of vendors, just buy now, all the bidding and stuff is of no real benefid.- Real pre-used / one-off auctions: Mark it by bidding low early (like dogs pissing on a pole to signal each other), then wait and snipe it late.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:16:47 am
content: Most annoying thing about ebay is how BIN works on auctions that have bidding.Put BIN on auction, at first bid, BIN disappears... seller still has to have fee for listing with BIN feature even though never used.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:48:03 am
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on March 12, 2014, 01:41:05 amBravo Franky,for the follow up, showing commitment to customer satisfaction and not just ignoring an apparent newcomer to the hobby.Send this user a one time discount coupon for use in the next 30 days and you will not only get another order but probably have gained a customer for life. Take the opportunity to capitalize on the situation you just turned around.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 08:03:43 am
content: QuotePaypal is better now than it used to be, in the early days there were frequent tales of accounts being frozen (often with funds in) apparently on a whim.The difficulty remains that it falls outside of the banking regulations in most (all?) parts of the world so it is still a law unto itself, which does make me uncomfortable.That said I haven't had any problems whilst I've been using ebay (since 2002) but I didn't take paypal until ebay made it obligatory.

author: tjb1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 01:37:20 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 11, 2014, 07:47:51 pmBecause sellers were charging $5 for a $100 item and then charging $95 shipping to get around the fee, which is funny because I just seen someone doing the same thing a couple weeks ago...I don't sell much on ebay because all the buyer has to do is open their mouth and suddenly paypal is holding money and all kinds of garbage and then the double dipping of fees. Ebay gets a % and then paypal gets another % even though you really have no choice but use paypal.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 01:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on March 12, 2014, 06:20:59 amYeah, some of these people buying meters don't even have proper engineering degrees. Bastards.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 02:03:55 pm
content: QuoteI'm less clear why people still bother given that the ebay fee is now on item price+postage and ebay now require a "full refund" to include postage.Perhaps they are just relying on people looking at the item price, not the price for the whole deal.Back to rants one of my least favourite bits of ebay as a seller is the "Detailed Seller Report" system. Not because it isn't a good idea but that the ebay implementation is hopeless - 5/5 basically means "met expectations" as far as ebay is concerned but there's no instruction on how to award stars for buyers so what the buyer actually awards is totally random. If you really want to worry a seller start awarding 1-2 points on a DSR (if you feel it can be justified) - the effect on a small seller can be devastating (i.e potentially leading to account suspension on only a few 1-2 ratings).

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 03:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 12, 2014, 02:03:55 pmExactly. One born every minute. Also to sort on top of the list.QuoteIndeed

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 03:54:30 pm
content: QuoteSort by price+postage - fixes that one easily.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 04:07:15 pm
content: Well, yeah. *I* know that, *U* know that. Many others know that.Still plenty of suckers around. Or at least, that is what the some sellers hope for.In an potential audience of millions, there is always one stupid enough. Thats the whole reason why spam and phishing exists.In fact, even me and probably you: Years ago I had a break-in in my car. Laptop missing, including some important work docs of the day (I back up every few days) And would you believe it, the same week I get an email: "Would you like your laptop back?"Of course I opened that email. Turned out to be some spam for a software that did GPS tracking. Not related to my break-in. Pure coincidence, but at that moment, irresistible for me to not open the spam (normally I do not even open it). Point is, with an audience of millions, there is one that is just in the right situation, the right state of mind, to make a mistake.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 05:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 12, 2014, 03:54:30 pmNot if you want to sort by "ending soonest", or if you want to search with a price limit...

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 05:15:43 pm
content: QuoteSubtly different because cybermaus suggested that the advantage to caving a cheap item with over-expensive postage was to come top of the sort by price list and sorting by price+postage does indeed fix that.I take your point though - you just have to remember to add the postage when using other sort methods. It's not rocket science. Admittedly not everyone remembers or is good enough at mental arithmetic.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:11:25 pm
content: QuoteI note the greedy bastards are also increasing final value fees to 11% in business and industrial.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:20:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 02:56:27 amYup.....and one reason why I just built my own online shop. It's so easy these days. You don't even need to have SSL if you stick to PayPal only.Ian.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:26:06 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on March 12, 2014, 06:51:41 amI think so. Their European headquarter is in Luxembourg. A tax haven, happy to take on every dodgy business, dodgy financial institutions and others, and not asking too many questions where money is coming from. Financial institutions who try to at least keep up the illusion to be a honest business try to settle at a more reputable banking center like London or Frankfurt (yes, I know, they are anyhow all criminals, but by all mean Luxembourg?!).They managed to convince the authorities of Luxembourg to grant them a banking license, valid in the whole EU. They even advertise that they are licensed. However, as others have mentioned, their business is unregulated, not covered by the license, they don't need that license and you can't hold them up to the banking standards, which would anyhow be the joke of standards of Luxembourg.For extra fun, they keep an ombudsman on payroll. In the UK. A country well known for their multi-lingual servicesShould be fun to go after the Luxembourg subsidiary of a US company via a UK ombudsman - an ombudsman voluntarily payed by them - if you aren't a citizen of any of these countries. And for extra points if you don't speak English.They are a bit more subtle with their tricks, but they still play them. They just can't help it. It is not just the token ombudsman. For example they are in cohorts with their parent company eBay when it comes to exchange rates. I have never observed that an exchange rate displayed by eBay was the one PayPal actually applied. PayPal's rates were always more expensive.QuoteWell, they share your financial data with literally hundreds of companies. Check their "you have no right to privacy" privacy statement. It is an impressive list.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 07:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on March 12, 2014, 07:26:06 pmNo, I think that's where you are incorrect. They share my commercial data with hundreds of companies, no doubt. Irritating enough. But I am pretty sure they do not share my financial data. Its an important distinction.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 09:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on March 11, 2014, 07:47:51 pmI believe eBay has been trying to be an Amazon.com competitor for quite some time... I don't think they care about the little guys at all - they are basically a clearing house for crap. They don't really want to be giving out Top Rated 20% discounts, nor do they want to deal with anything other than huge sellers, unless those sellers are totally trouble free. For the very large sellers, the rates and rules are negotiated on a case-by-case basis... so things like Top Rated and final value fees and the number of negatives you are allowed are all negotiated between eBay and the seller.But as for the price - I think eBay is quite expensive. I was approached about 7 or 8 years ago by Amazon who wanted to stock our products (not "Fulfilled by Amazon" but they wanted to warehouse it as part of their normal catalog). They wanted 20%. And they handled the returns, fulfillment, billing, advertising, everything. I just shipped a pallet of stuff and faxed an invoice. eBay is around 15% if you include all the fees, but I have to do all the work - all they provide is the venue to sell within, but I do all the support, fulfillment, handle warranties/complaints, etc.Ultimately, I hope eBay fails. Their sole saving grace is that they are the biggest market... but that can change quickly (MySpace -> Facebook).

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 09:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on March 12, 2014, 07:37:33 pmPayPal protection isn't near as good as CC protection. And truthfully, consumers worry too much about their financial data being stolen - at least for your credit card, it is the vendor accepting your card that is taking all the risk in the transaction. If the card winds up being stolen, the money is taking back from the vendor's bank account.The best of both worlds is to use American Express to make payments through PayPal. Then you can dispute with PayPal, and if you get no satisfaction, dispute the charge with Amex. Double protection, and Amex is the best in the world at looking out for the consumer

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 02:18:37 am
content: Quote from: Joule Thief on March 12, 2014, 07:48:03 amLook me a long time to realize what I should be offering at the end of the day to the clients is "happiness". But I am only allowed to do that if I have trust from them, and I am providing value to them.?? ?? ??

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 08:09:27 pm
content: I'm glad the Franky problem got sorted. I think Franky was being reasonable, but I do feel that some customers might find it a bit much being asked for a video. Many people won't have the equipment, software, upload speed or storage space for videos. Although I have reasonable quality equipment now, I would still struggle to get a video uploaded somewhere.Regarding ebay, I got an insignificant negative feedback some years ago. It lowered my percentage to 99%, but a year or two later, they changed the rule so that older negative feedback won't affect your percentage. Now my percentage is back at 100%.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 03:16:43 am
content: Just a quick follow-up in case anyone cares...I took a video demonstrating that the DMM showing random floating voltages being normal. Buyer claimed his didn't behave the same. A new, fully tested, replacement unit was sent to the buyer. He acknowledged receipt, but still said he didn't understand why the meter would show random voltages when not connected. I took another video showing him even a $200+ Brymen DMM does the same thing. He stopped responding to my messages and feedback revision requests after thatI then called eBay and asked if it was possible to have the negative feedback removed. They reviewed the case but declinedSo that's how my feedback virginity was broken...sigh.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 03:20:43 am
content: Your kindness to offer better deals here on the forums is hurting you in the end Franky. We cannt give feedback on ebay and so the ratio of idiots is higher for you ebay sales and you receive less positive feedback on ebay for your sales in total.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 10:35:21 am
content: Yeah, the "it doesn't work" people, I hate them. Got to wonder how they get on with others we they cannot describe what they want.What's is really daft is ebay actually put a word limit on ebay messages, so you have to send 2 messages if the problem is complicated.I had an item arrive from and ebay UK seller with minor damage, which I knew I could fix. Not only did I only ask for 1/3rd the money back, I also described the damage and how to protect his stuff so it would survive. I didn't go stupid because he wasn't contactable over the xmas/new years break, and send him 10,000 messages either.Yeah ebay, expensive hole in the internet to throw money into.I always read seller feedback, as it gives me an idea of what products have "issues".I found two sellers with more or less the same product for sale, with the same % of negative feedback1. Lots of complaints about the items being the wrong type, broken, badly packaged etc. I gave up and kept looking2. Lots of complaints about the postage being slow, with the seller clearly stating the company delivering his stuff was the cause. The listings also say to allow 3-5 days, yes some buyers goingI needed it yesterday.Yeah I'm going with #2, turns out his stuff is cheaper to boot

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 10:35:50 am
content: My biggest gripe with ebay is their limits for new accounts. Apparently I can only sell one single-quantity electronic item at a time.

author: humgar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 10:53:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2014, 09:24:52 amNot always. It's useful to take a look at what's the problem (through the negative feedback's comments) if the feedback score is <97%. Sometimes it's just one bad feedback left by inexperienced buyers (they don't know the etiquette: sometimes I see good comments on neutral feedback, wtf) and I'll promptly ignore that. If I see >5 negative feedback complaining about justifiably inaccurate description or much delayed shipping, it sets a red flag. If they just complain their auctions getting canceled, it's no big deal.As you might have noticed that feedback cheating is rampant among Chinese eBay sellers, so even with 99% positive feedback, I scan for the text of negative feedback to see if they are >5 material accusations, because there's no way flooding it with fake positive reviews can get rid of the negatives. For me, it screens out very late shippers and those who ship junk. I bought a set of ESD brushes from 19babydeals on eBay and it never arrived, they claimed they've shipped it and beg me for another chance for them to reship. The 2nd try didn't arrive, it has already dragged for half a year that eBay thought the transaction was closed and it wasn't on the system (aka I missed the filing deadline), and then I checked their feedback and I see similar comments about labels generated by not shipped (that's my situation). Now I make it a habit to read through the negative comments if it's worse than 99.5% positive for a Chinese seller.

author: GopherT
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 12:40:48 pm
content: Quote from: humgar on March 09, 2019, 10:53:26 amWhy did you dig up a 5-year-old thread to comment on an old eBay issue?

author: humgar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 08:43:14 pm
content: Came across it through Google. That was my recent experience though. Sorry for necrobumping the thread. The stuff mentioned in this thread still apply after 5 years.Here's an example where I wish I had read the seller's eBay feedbacks first:https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=19babydeals&iid=-1&de=off&items=25&searchInterval=30&which=negative&interval=30&_trkparms=negative_30Now I am one of the victims as well.