do I have to report to the authorities? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: federico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 09:37:35 am
content: hello everyone,I'm Federico, a youtubers at the beginning and I do projects of all kinds ..in my project today I was taking a UV lamp to build a UV oven to dry 3D prints, and while I dismounted,SURPRISE!I discovered that the fuse is not connected to any electronic component.My question is:it was done this way because maybe they reused components of other accessories and that fuse is useless,or was it done, in order to pass the Italian customs, and this object is dangerous, at risk of fire?Based on your answers I will decide whether to call the competent Italian authorities and report them or let them go ..I ask you who are experts.I enclose photos of the open product and electronics.This is the product link:https://www.ebay.it/itm/LAMPADA-UV-36W-CON-4-BULBI-FORNETTO-PER-RICOSTRUZIONE-UNGHIE-GEL-SMALTO-NAIL-ART/282641212510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649Thanks.

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 10:03:55 am
content: Hello,I'd report that without hesitation.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 10:53:55 am
content: Report... lol... They won't likely give a damn sh!t. If you ever find whom to report to.Id likely expect you become fined for disassembling it as an "unauthorized person". That's more like the world we live in.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 11:01:36 am
content: Did you import this yourself or buy it from a shop in Italy?If you bought it from a shop, report it. You should have a body there that governs equipment electrical safety. People who do the right thing pay lots of money getting their items tested to make sure they are compliant with the local regulations. Then cheats just import stuff and sell them cheap, never getting the required testing done.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 11:05:35 am
content: you are the one who imported it (ebay from china*) = you are liablebut I would give negative feedback and demand refund (paypal gives you 180 days)* its listed Italy, but its china

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 02:16:46 pm
content: No good deed goes unpunished...Just sayin'...

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 03:12:06 pm
content: Quote from: tpowell1830 on June 03, 2018, 02:16:46 pmChinese quality has a long way to come and go! Maybe it’s a knock off or factory seconds or some worker having to rush thru to met quotas!For what they are paid and conditions they work in it’s a wonder it even has a fuse.... even thought it’s not connected!Sigh!....complaining? To who? The seller is just selling goods they didn’t make it! To them they are just selling what they get to sell.Welcome to the “ made in China quality “ .... or lack there of! I feel sorry for most average Chinese production workers and I never trust their basic wiring and always check, just like the OP did...!FWIWBrendanSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 04:25:11 pm
content: Shady shops like that will simply close a business and restart under a different name doing the same thing. Sure, you could report it, but I doubt you will gain anything by it. It will likely generate nothing or whole a lot of hassle and nothing in the end. I'd just fix it myself and use it, or toss it in garbage.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2018, 04:26:09 pm
content: It's a simple fix, stuff gets past QC even in the best of times."Don't turn it on, take it apart!"

author: federico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2018, 07:47:31 am
content: Ok, thanks to all the answers.I bought it from an Italian retailer, which obviously sells stuff imported from China.I do not want to report it for a profit, I do not even want a refund.In Italy we have the NAS carabinieri who are responsible for seizing and enforcing the laws to sellers. and when they come to check you, they break your ass, until the activity is closed.So my report could cost dear to many people, so I'm sorry, I'm not very convinced to call them.But these ebay sellers are among the biggest in Italy, they sell hundreds of them, this UV lamp, for example: they have sold 800 pieces and they sell them every day.And if they are dangerous, it is right that they are reported.Not to mention that they could have other tens of hundreds of products not up to standard in their warehouses .. in short, even to me like to pay little, but not to the detriment of the safety of my family.I will let you know how it went ..For now, thank you all.GreetingsFederico

author: Bashstreet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 06:05:36 pm
content: Quote from: federico on June 04, 2018, 07:47:31 amI admire your sense of duty for other peoples well being we need more people like you.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 07:36:46 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 03, 2018, 11:05:35 amWhat makes you think so?From the auction page linked above:Quote

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: federico on June 04, 2018, 07:47:31 amDid you consider that the dangerous piece of junk you have discovered could actually cost someone their life or house when it catches on fire? You are unlikely the only person who has bought it, especially if it is sold by someone on an industrial scale.I wouldn't hesitate to report this for a second - doing so and having the defective product recalled could well save someone's life. That's more important that the seller's livelihood, IMO (and they will only get fined and have to recall this, at best, unless there are other problems in their business).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:48:15 pm
content: Personally I would just fix it. With so much cheap junk from China this is hardly surprising, the authorities can't even stamp out obvious counterfeit goods, what are they going to do about this?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:55:51 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 05, 2018, 08:48:15 pmWell, they might encourage that major Italian importer of Chinese junk products (43000+ sales on ebay) to take their product qualification and incoming inspection a bit more seriously... Given the fact that the importer is liable for CE conformity, they might even cause them some serious financial pain, if they have more products of that grade in their warehouse. Or they might put them out of business, if the compliance failures are systematic in nature.Mind you, this is not a case of a few personal, direct orders from China. There is a European "business" behind this. So it is easy enought to enforce the regulations in this case.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 05, 2018, 07:36:46 pmwanna bet its not a real company paying taxes?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 05, 2018, 09:00:42 pmYes, I'll take that bet. What do I win if I give you their VAT number?Quotehttps://paeuroshop.com/

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:36:49 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 05, 2018, 09:20:53 pmand they paid taxes on every item sold thru ebay

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:54:35 pm
content: imho..It's all under plastic or glass, no risk of getting zappedIf there's a short or something, the thin wires inside will probably act like fuses and burn out before you'd damage your house wiring.So I wouldn't worry too much about a fuse.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 11:25:09 pm
content: That's a valid point. Is a fuse even required by regulations or does it just have to not catch on fire if a fault occurs?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 04:51:41 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 05, 2018, 09:36:49 pmNow would be a good time to admit that you were wrong in your assessment of the company. They arenotbased in China as you claimed, and contrary to you next claim, they are indeed a real, registered company in Italy.Or you can do some more rounds of back-pedaling and weaseling, if you prefer. Enjoy yourself.

author: SMdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 07:56:34 am
content: Given the volume of products they have sold, they are making some serious coin from these cheap imported items.It is not a case of wheather or not it looks like it could electrocute someone or not.It is an electrical item that plugs into the mains voltage. It needs to be tested for electrical safety and emc compliance and once it complies and all other paperwork is done, then the CE or whatever mark is relevant can be applied to the product and it can be leagally sold.Honest businesses do this, it costs money and time and headaches.Dishonest businesses import crap and sell it "cheap" undermining the honest businesses and this is not fair for the honest ones trying to make a living, while the dishonest are making a killing.Every business has the same opportunity to do the right thing...

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 10:03:14 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 06, 2018, 04:51:41 amIts really easy to check, report this company to Italian tax authorities and wait. Having VAT Id and paying taxes are two separate things.https://www.thelocal.it/20160907/italians-europe-vat-tax-evasion-dodge-againfederico did you get receipt/invoice with your purchase? was it shipped from Italy or in traditional chinese black/grey dropshipper plastic bag?

author: LateLesley
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 10:09:41 am
content: Quote from: mariush on June 05, 2018, 09:54:35 pmQuote from: james_s on June 05, 2018, 11:25:09 pmThe whole point of fuses, is that they are the weak link in the chain, and let the device fail in a controlled manner. If it's left to the wires, it could cause an overcurrent condition for a lot longer, leading to a fire. Also, what if the neutral wire burns through first? You then have an apparently dead device with parts sitting a mains potential, if not unplugged from the supply. It's the reason fuses should also be on the live line, and not on the neutral, as I've seen in some cheap Chinese equipment.A fuse will be required as a minimum by safety regulation, it's the most basic form of protection, and it should be first to fail in a short fault or overload condition. Many devices don't come up to that mark. I've seen here in the UK many 4 plug extension cables. which are popular, made with 6 amp or 10 amp cable, but then have a 13A fuse as protection. It may blow in the event of a short circuit, but in an overload condition, will be the scene of many a fire.And as for it being contained in plastic - Have you seen the way plastic melts and burns? It's not a safe way to contain hot metal parts. It's one of the reason for the recent change in the electrical regulations back to stipulating all metal distribution boards.My opinion is, it is highly negligent and dangerous to not fuse the item, especially since the fuse holder is already there. It may fail safe, but without a fuse as a weak link, it also may not. it is not guaranteed. A fuse should ALWAYS be the last resort weakest link in the chain.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 10:55:49 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 06, 2018, 10:03:14 amWhat strange obsession do you have there?Yes, you can get Chinese sellers selling on European ebay sites.Yes, some of them even give a Euopean contact address to muddy the waters.No, the present seller is not one of them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 05:03:30 pm
content: A fuse is certainly preferable, however I have seen plenty of things without a traditional fuse. Often a fusible resistor is used in compact fluorescent lamps.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 07:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 06, 2018, 10:03:14 amRasz, why exactly does it matter whether or not this company pays taxes? How is that relevant to the fact that they are selling unsafe crap and that is what should be stopped?If they aren't paying taxes, great, they get hammered for that too, especially given that they are registered for VAT and thus have to follow stricter rules.Stop making wild assumptions based on stereotypes - first "China" now that Italians are supposedly tax dodgers - none of that is relevant at all.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 08:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 06, 2018, 07:47:23 pmFake fuse, fake safety certs, tax dodge, lead paint, melamine milk, if you are doing one of them you are more likely to do another. I am fascinated with this compassion for scammers well-being. Federico should be happy his house didnt burn down, yet he is still hesitant reporting fraud

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 09:45:13 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 06, 2018, 08:15:40 pmBe careful with that "scammer" thing. That unsafe lamp could well have been something the importer didn't check (and should thus be recalled and the importer fined, no doubt), but for the rest you have zero evidence and are simply talking nonsense.And "melamine milk"? How is thatChinesescandal even related to anItaliancompany?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 11:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 06, 2018, 09:45:13 pmIm sorry, you are right. How could I say a bad word about this honorable company offering quality products like $50 1080P320x240projectorhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-MINI-HD-1080P-VIDEOPROIETTORE-PROIETTORE-PROJECTOR-AV-USB-VGA-HDMI-PC-SD-IT-/281789457189or this 1080P Full HD600TVLcamerahttps://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-TELECAMERA-AHD-SPIA-NASCOSTA-SPY-8-LED-1-3-MPX-CON-AUDIO-/282673981419or maybe this HD720P DIY Module640x480SPY CAMERA HDhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/SPY-CAMERA-SPIA-HD-WIFI-P2P-TELECAMERA-NASCOSTA-MICROCAMERA-DETECTION-/272582573628

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 11:34:33 pm
content: And how does selling cheap crap imply not paying taxes, as you have claimed? Be careful who you call scammer - if they deliver what is in the description, they are not scamming anyone, merely peddling junk (which isn't a crime).People got sued for less - libel is a thing, you know.I am certainly not defending this outfit but hit them for what you have actual evidence for, not what you think they *might* be doing based on stereotyping, possibly prejudice but zero actual evidence.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2018, 04:14:28 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on June 06, 2018, 08:15:40 pmRasz, you have been missing my point for a while. I don't claim that the seller runs a great business which needs to be protected. To the contrary, my whole point is that there is an Italien company behind this, which is responsible for CE compliance of these products, and that Federico and the authorities therefore have some leverage.(Remember how this whole discussion started? You told Federico that it's his own problem, since you thought that he had imported that product directly from China. I merely meant to correct that wrong assessment.)Hint: One possible response would now be "Ahh, I see -- then we are on the same page here." But looking back over this thread, I'm curious what you come up with...

author: federico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2018, 02:31:02 pm
content: Hello everyone, I did not think this discussion became so long.To respond to Rasz:My compassion is because, having a company in Italy is terrible (I was an entrepreneur for 7 years), are more taxes that we pay (55%) than what we put in your pocket, and if the authorities come to make you a check, they always sodomize you. even if you're honest.Maybe you told me that the fuse is practically useless, which only serves to prevent the electronics from breaking, and for me it ended there.(I bought a 9 euro UV oven while the others cost 30 euro, so I know I bought something of poor quality, if it breaks, I shut up, or break the balls at the company), while I can not stand shut up if the product is dangerous to human health.So not being an electronics expert I preferred to consult you experts, to make sure you do the right thing.To update you on each other:I made the complaint to the NAS.If this product is really dangerous as you say, I should receive an alert where they ask to send the product back.I will update you.Thanks for your help.