X-Tronic XTS-8080 -- Is it safe? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 03:30:56 pm
content: Hello everyone,This is my first post, and it may seem really stupid, but under the advice of Dave Jones, I registered specifically to ask this question.Basically I need someone to put my mind at ease here, I have a rather unique situation...I am not a technician, I know basically nothing about electronics. However I came across the EEVBlog videos on youtube and figured this was the best place to ask, so I e-mailed Mr. Jones, and he told me to register and ask here.My brother is getting into electronics, and is basically teaching himself all of this stuff, using online classes (which he is paying for) and just by "tinkering". He decided that he needed to get a cheap soldering station and a hot air gun to continue learning while maintaining a budget, and after looking around he ended-up buying this X-Tronic 8080 unit on Amazon.While I'm glad for his enthusiasm, I am concerned for his safety (and by extension for the rest of us). I'm sure it's not the best unit in the world, although from what I can see the reviews on Amazon are mostly positive. The problem is basically no one has any information on this unit outside of that. No reputable videos on youtube, and nothing here on EEV either.My question is, is this a safe unit for my brother to learn with, or is it going to blow-up in his face.I can't really help him, because as I said, I am not electronically inclined, I'm a writer. So despite what Dave likes to say even if I "take it apart" I wouldn't even know what I'm looking at, or what to look for. And it's not technically my property anyway.So, basically, what I'm asking is, not so much if it's a "good" unit; I'm sure it probably is fairly bad functionally -- but is it asafe unit.Has anyone with knowledge taken it apart, or done a review?(by the way, he thinks I'm crazy for being concerned, maybe I am -- writers typically aren't "normal" anyway)Regards,--James

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 04:12:11 pm
content: Is it safe?Seriously, the combination of soldering tools together with a power supply is a bit concerning because they may not be properly isolated from one another. The hot air heater is also a line voltage (120VAC) unit located in the handpiece, which might be easily touched by the metal nozzles. I think the best practice for one of these tools is to use a sensitive GFCI (5 mA) and test it to make sure the tip or nozzle is properly grounded.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 04:38:28 pm
content: Whether it's safe or not, it's a heap of cheap crap for a lot of many. Basically it's $ 70 worth of Hot air and soldering iron at best + rubbish PSU and magnifier. Also combined units suck. It sucks not having PSU separately. It's even much more ergonomic to have a hot air and soldering iron separately. I'd suggest to return it if you still can.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 04:47:26 pm
content: You'd be far better with something like $95 Quick 957DW+ hot air, $80-90 soldering station (there are cheaper options if buying from China). Top it to around $280 total and even get a good PSU. You could even get a half decent PSU from aliexpress to not exceed the cost of 8080-XTS. That magnifier is a useless piece of junk, so you should not bother about getting it anyway.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 05:13:04 pm
content: Thanks for the replies.To be clear. I didn't buy it, my brother did.I am going to show him this thread -- and after a short but possibly heated argument, hopefully he will return the thing if it's truly dangerous.Regards,-- James

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 05:16:06 pm
content: I don't think it's really dangerous. But IMO it's a lot of wasted money.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 07:06:16 pm
content: Well, I'm not qualified to really comment on that, although you are probably correct.I'm more interested in the safety of the unit... if he can use it to continue his studies without the unit being an undue danger, then it's his money to waste.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 09:01:48 pm
content: Okayenough of this. I'm his brother who bought the xtronic.All I wanted was a small soldering iron and rework station to fit in my bedroom while i study electronics.I know that it's no hakko or weller, but i dont think its a cheap knock off either.My brother thinks that its going to explode or burn down the house or something, so I'll let you guys here prove him wrong.Here, i opened it up myself voiding my own warrantyTake a look and tell me if i need to call the fire Dept or emshttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/frb1p11696emigz/AAB4aTodjqX0Y4LxVSY-RggBa?dl=0

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 12:07:21 am
content: QuoteWell, a soldering iron easily gets got enough to set things on fire if you are unlucky. It's job is to get HOT, and in that sense, it is never going to be wholy "safe." Also, don't use the power supply to charge any non-rechargeable batteries, and be extra careful for other types.Turn off and unplug when not in use... Do not bury under laundry.OTOH, I don't think I've ever heard of of exploding test equipment, so I don't think you have much to worry about.The insides look pretty good - in particular, the big-hunk-of-iron transformers somewhat imply mains-safety beyond what you might get with (say) a cheap computer switching supply.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 12:31:42 am
content: Quote from: westfw on October 30, 2018, 12:07:21 amFrankly insides don't look that good, especially hand soldered SMT parts. For the $240 it costs I cannot call it anything other than a piece of crap. Hopefully switches it has actually disconnect those parts from the mains unlike this Luckey which can power the heater even when power switch is in off position.https://youtu.be/m5kzyUFb2Sg

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 01:09:10 am
content: I have in the office a WEP brand hot air gun that literally melted, haven't investigated why.The problem with these cheap brands is that we are dealing with heating elements that get hot. If the control loop fails or whatever they can race out of control and melt and potentially catch fire.But I don't recall ever hearing of a soldering iron that failed and started a fire?The hot air gun you are always there when using it, so not a problem. Irons tend to get left on and unattended though, but again, the odds of it failing and catching on fire are pretty remote.Most likely scenario by far is that it simply fails because of some shoddy manufacturing defect.Xtronic aren't a completely no-name Aliexpress thing, they are at least a US company and carry spare parts etc. So I probably wouldn't worry, I'd be stunned if there was anything inherently dangerous with it.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 02:07:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 01:09:10 amThere appears to be two common failure modes with the wand type hot air unit. The first is as you allude to; the wand which has the heating element overheats, either the fan fails or control loop ect. The second mode is a triac which is always under power even when the unit is "off" failing short in the main box. That is likely the cause of the russian workshop fire in the video linked. You can greatly mitigate both risks by only powering the unit when you are using it and in attendance. I have one of the cheapest of these 858D clones and always remove the plug completely when not using it, no way am I turning my back on that bastard.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 04:33:11 am
content: I appreciate all of the responses.After a bit of an argument, I believe that my brother at least understands that I'm not trying to sabotage his efforts; just that I am concerned about safety. (that video of the fire-starter was helpful in that regard).As I mentioned before, I suppose what really unsettles me is the fact that as of now -- other than my brother -- no-one has ever looked at the insides of this model (or any X-Tronic station) from what I can tell.And as two people mentioned here, one thinks the inside at least looks decent, the other says it is total crap. And sadly, now that my brother opened his, there's no possibility of a return or refund. Though I still don't think he's totally convinced.Chalk it up to a learning experience I guess, and maybe he supplied a new entry on the journal to the folks here.Just wish someone would actually do a real review/teardown of this model to see what the quality is really like.I bought an extra ABC fire extinguisher this afternoon.Regards,--James

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 05:25:38 am
content: what is there to even be convinced about? Some guy left his iron on and it started a fire, so dont leave it unattended (duh)Westfw thinks it looks ok, wraper thinks it doesnt, so its a wash.Dont waste peoples time. At least i opened the damn thing, which instead of being afraid.Just because something isnt a name brand doesn't make it garbage

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:11:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 01:09:10 amGood stations like Quick have thermal fuse next to the heater. So even if heater is powered without blower spinning, it won't catch fire. 861DS I have even detects that thermal response is abnormal and shuts down in a few seconds with beeping (I played with it a little bit).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:16:25 am
content: Quote from: SpinDoctor on October 30, 2018, 05:25:38 amIt was turned off with a power switch on the front panel. It's power switch don't actually disconnect internals from mains voltage and it does not have thermal fuse in the handle. Do you unplug every device from the mains when you leave the room? As I've read, when those catch fire (it's not 1 isolated incident), triac often is not even at fault. Just MCU glitch.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:18:50 am
content: Quote from: SpinDoctor on October 30, 2018, 05:25:38 amIt would be okayish if it did cost half of it's price.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:24:14 am
content: I found what it actually was before being rebranded (by marking on the PCB I've seen on your photos). WEP 853D, the cheapest brand which have melted on Dave's desk. Changed front panel color, knobs and used blue indicators to make it look a bit different. But it's still the same unit with the same internals. As I've said, it would be somewhat okayish if it did cost half of it's price which it actually does.https://www.ebay.com/itm/853D-3-in1-Soldering-Rework-Station-5A-SMD-Solder-Iron-Hot-Air-Gun-4-Nozzle-220v/163115420701?epid=2076320807&hash=item25fa6fcc1d:g:zjsAAOSwcLxYM91jhttps://youtu.be/RCfVBDzxewI

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:38:14 am
content: QuoteIt's a piece of equipment. One normally doesn't open them up an look at the insides until AFTER there are infamous failures :-( I had a Weller that I paid about $70 bucks for (1980 dollars, so about $200 of today's $$) I didn't take it apart until a couple years ago when it finally failed. All IT had inside was a tranformer! (OTOH, Weller was a trusted name, and "just a transformer" means less to fail.)In general, I think "lab equipment" like this has less motivation for the vendors to "cut corners" than a really high-volume piece of consumer gear (like a phone charger or a hoverboard, to mention two items that have been pretty famous for having many unsafe version floating around...)QuoteIf we're arguing about safety, the "cost" isn't particularly relevant, right?I paid about $100 each for a temperature-controlled soldering iron, a hot air unit, and a lab power supply, (none of them really high-end gear) so assuming that the Xytronics basically works (iron is actually temp-controlled, power supply is actually vaguely stable, etc (which are pretty easy things, given the state of electronics, as long as it's not a fraud)) then it doesn't seem that highly priced to me. "Wraper" must have some good sources! (without arguing the flaws of having it all built into one unit.)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:51:16 am
content: Quote from: westfw on October 30, 2018, 07:38:14 amWell, if you know you bought it cheaply from China, you'd at least might be concerned about it's quality and not keep it connected to mains voltage when you are away. I don't think there is a high chance it will burn or electrocute but I would think twice keeping this thing on my desk.

author: rawrs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 08:38:22 am
content: I can't speak for hot air rework, I don't have one. But I highly recommend a TS-100 for the soldering iron, and I have a DPS5020 on the way, they make a range of power supplies that run off power bricks, basically. The higher the input voltage, the higher the output voltage you can have.Here is that Ruideng store.Get whichever power supply you think you'll need, and grab the case for it too. It comes with everything you need to put it together, and it'll be a fun little hour or two project putting it all together to boot.You can find the TS100 on AliExpress too, or eBay. Get the BS2 or other chisel tip with it. And also throwRalim'sfirmware on it, it opens up a whole new experience.Magnifying lamp, you can get anywhere.Again, I can't speak for hot air, I don't have one - but I would appreciate advice on a budget hot air rework station, myself. The Atten hot air station seems to be fairly popular, but I'd like to hear what Dave has to say on this.Quote from: EEVblog on October 30, 2018, 01:09:10 amI'm guessing you were referring to the Atten-style ones? Would you still recommend one despite this?The way I think of it, I don't like unsafe electronics - at all. I will not touch a cheap power supply, power brick, etc,ever, I don't care how much the genuine article costs. But for something like a hot air rework station or a soldering iron, is safety really going to matter all that much? Neither of these things are pieces of equipment that shouldeverbe left alone for absolutely any amount of time whatsoever, anyway. So if something goes bang, you'll know about it. Not like when I had a power brick short circuit and runaway, almost burning my house down. (If I didn't forget my wallet that night, it would have.)TL;DR - don't buy these combo stations. Muilti-purposeanythingis generally a case of "it's ok at those things, but not great at anything". Pretty much 100% of the time, you are far better off with individual components, no matter what it is - soldering/rework stations, power supplies, power tools, whatever. Buy the proper thing and it'll do the job better, I guarantee it.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 04:46:33 pm
content: Yeah, i get it. I didn't buy the thing to be the ultimate hakko killer, i bought it to save some space and stay on budget while i continue my classesIt does kinda look like that thing in your video though a bit different. The guy seemed to like it though, and commented in part 2 that it still worksXtronic is a american company, and most people keep saying the chinese stuff is bad, but the seem to love that quick hot air gun, so what am i missing here

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 05:11:27 pm
content: I wish I had a brother like that. Mine would stand back, watch and then snicker when it zapped me. One time I walked through a ground hornet nest my brothers knew of. The wasps followed me for @1/2 a city block, stinging all the way.Bastards. The wasps were nasty too.Anyway, I'm new too and learning and watching, I appreciate the discussion here, and now have one more thing to worry about, not burning the house down with the even cheaper unit I bought off Banggood. I want to add that the reviews on Amazon for this unit are very very good in aggregate. 4.3 out of 5 stars vs Weller WES51 4.4 out of 5 (many more reviews though). Good luck to you both.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 05:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: SpinDoctor on October 30, 2018, 04:46:33 pmAmerican sales company. They only resell already existing Chinese crap at much higher price. They don't design anything. And their address is a small warehouse.QuoteChinese stuff is very different. Chinese make/design a lot of crap and a lot of excellent things. X-tronic sells goods which lean more on the crappy side. Also IMHO they imitate XYtronic-USA company name (which makes good soldering equipment) to confuse people.http://www.xytronic-usa.com

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 05:47:59 pm
content: It's probably not unsafe, at least as these things go. Any soldering or desoldering tool can start a fire if you aren't careful so never leave it running unattended. It's a bizarre combination of things though, combining all that stuff together is a bit like a combination toothbrush/toilet brush/hand towel/shaver, they're all things that are often used in the same general space but it hardly makes sense to bolt them together.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 06:43:10 pm
content: So what I'm gathering from this is that X-Tronic is a poor crap copy of XyTronics -- an actual American company, and that XyTronics makes good products?I found this on Amazon:http://a.co/d/0mJ4zhSand I would actually buy this for my brother if it's a better (safer) product than his X-Tronic thing. But I need knowledgeable advice since I have no experience with this stuff.Regards,--James

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2018, 07:56:25 pm
content: Xytronic is a Taiwanese company that has been making soldering tools for about 40 years (founded in 1980).X-Tronic is a company that rebadges Chinese devices (such as the W.E.P. 853D shown above) and slaps their name on them—their web site was created in 2011.There is no relationship between Xytronic and X-tronic, despite a similar-sounding name. The whole affair is reminscent of a "white box speaker scam".

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 02:14:04 am
content: Meh. It'll work fine. 2x or more markup is about standard for companies that import and re-brand Chinese-manufactured products. And there are VERY MANY of those...The replacement you suggested doesn't have hot air or the power supply, both of which are very useful.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 02:48:39 am
content: If it were me, I'd opt for:Hakko FX-888Dfor an iron (get some tips, take the roll of solder)Quick 857DW+for hot airUsedGW Instek GPC-3020from eBay for a 3 output CC/CV linear PSUSimilar money, but decent quality (definitely an upgrade from the X-tronic).TEquipment offers a 6% discount for EEVBlog members.Last but not least,Hakko's Tip Selectionpage will show you what shapes are used for what.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 02:58:08 am
content: Can you afford around $100? Get a Hakko Fx-888D from Frys. It comes with a nice chisel tip and its solidly built, heats up quickly. Presets are fine, just leave them as is.Its built very well. Mine is blue and yellow.The chisel tip is very versatile - it has a point - with a flat surface in one tip- it really is two tips in one. Since I got it I have not needed to use any other tips yet. The hakko is a pleasure to use- vs. my old iron would not regulate the temperature as well as I wanted with different kinds of work. I had to adjust it a lot, up and down.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 03:09:41 am
content: Well, I'm a writer making a writer's wage... not independently wealthy by any means. But if the X-Tronic is a safety hazard, I would help my brother out, who is currently taking paid online classes for electronics. and on a tight budget.As I think he has said, this isn't the time for top of the line gear and spending a lot of money, it's about just getting usable equipment for him to practice with and apply some of what he is learning. My main concern was if this is a safe unit for him to do it with. He can upgrade when he starts making his own money with his skills.I know that he wanted a combo unit for the space-saving. He looked at even cheaper units, but even he thought that they were dodgy.Regards,--James

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 02:58:54 pm
content: see this is what i dont getEveryone except westfw says that the xtronic is cheap chinese crapthen they say to get the quick stationWhat's the differencethey are both foreignAnd if mine is really a piece of junk thatll start a forest fire like james thinks, then what is a good solder and hot air for the same price as the xtronic?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 03:14:52 pm
content: Quote from: SpinDoctor on October 31, 2018, 02:58:54 pmThe difference is that you paid almost twice of what it actually costs, therefore expect quality as if you bought it for $130. BTW don't expect that built in PSU can output maximum 5A current for prolonged time and not fail. Quick has proven to make excellent equipment at reasonable price. At least heater should be thermally protected thus preventing from possible fire.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 06:24:19 pm
content: Ok heres the thing. This the a quick hot sir stationQuick 861DW 1000W Digital Rework Station with LCD Displayhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EID23J6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jdF2BbRWV1PHSalone it is more expensive than my xtronic and has no reviews st allbut forget thathere is another unitVIPFIX 110V 1000W QUICK 861DW Hot Air Station with 3Pcs Free Nozzles Original Soldering Station for iPhone Miro Soldering Rework (Full Set)https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B7KL943/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_6eF2BbDZTNBDKthis one is the exact same unit just with gray paint instead of white.How fo we know that quick is not doing the same as xtronic?I really dont understand the point you are trying to make wraper, or what it has to do with my unit burning down a house, or why people think one is safe and one is not

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 07:19:26 pm
content: Quote from: SpinDoctor on October 31, 2018, 06:24:19 pmDid anyone suggest you buying 861DW?, people including me suggested buying <$100 model. I'm not aware of single Quick that melted like W.E.P. Build quality is better and needed thermal protection is in place unlike crappy W.E.P units. Also when I was working in repair business in a decade ago, Quick was among the equipment authorized by Motorola. BTW 861DW has plenty of positive reviews, teardowns and even videos from popular bloggers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 07:25:09 pm
content: Here you have your reviews.https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/People usually don't buy soldering equipment from Amazon anyway, especially if it's not sold by amazon itself but 3rd party sellers.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 07:38:39 pm
content: I have a combo X-tronic station. It is one of the fancier models. The only things "wrong" with it, is low quality plastic in the handpiece. The plastic will undoubtedly (IMO) eventually break from heat exposure. If you use it a lot, I put the over under on 3 years. This is very common in the clone stations. The plastic used in the real Hakko is something that the cheap cloners don't really care to spend on. The real hakko also has a overmold closed cell sovent-resistant foam grip that is super durable and reduces heat escape/transfer and which doesn't wear out and doesn't get slick from sweat or get sticky when you get flux on it.The construction and internal soldering and grounding of the case were completely fine on my X-trronic unit. I wouldn't worry about it burning my house down anymore than I take care to unplug or switch off from the outlet any heat gun when I'm not using it.I would note that the heater in the hot air station died after very little use. It lasted maybe a year or two, but I barely used it. It came with a replacement, which i installed. Also, this thing had the worst unboxing smell I've ever experienced from a made-in-China device. The moment I opened the bag, the smell of cancer was overpowering. It was the kind of smell you leave on the front porch for a couple days before you bring it in the house.I have an 858D that cost $30.00, and I have used it 30x as much as the (retired) Xtronic, and it is still working fine with no maintenance. I've never used a Quick, and I'm sure they're great. 1000W is probably a lot more power than most of these cheap units. But the 858D does everything I need, ATM. For soldering iron I am very particular, and I use a genuine Hakko. But for something you are going to put away when you're not using it, I can imagine a combined unit might be handy.With any tool/equipment you use frequently, it is hard to go backwards. But for a first station, you could do a lot worse than the X-tronic stuff. Overpriced, maybe. But if you already bought it, use it 'til it breaks. Or until you get a job/situation where you need to use it daily and you want something that will make things easier, for ergonomics or power or reliability, or whatnot. But any hot air station should be switched off when not in use. If the handle gets knocked off the cradle (or the sensor goes out of whack), then you will have a problem.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 08:23:26 pm
content: Guys, please try not to get too upset with my brother (I know he can be terse, even dense at times) but he is a good kid, and he is working hard trying to learn.I really didn't want this to devolve into an argument, so let's focus in on the point here:Point A:We all realize that the X-Tronic is a Chinese unit, that is not on par with a name brand piece (such as the Hakko or Weller that I hear everyone mention).Point B:This is a unit that he is going to practice and learn with, and put away when not in use. It is not something that is going to sit on a desk all day. Which is why he wanted a space-saving combo unit.Point C:The main question that (admittedly) I had, and my brother didn't really care about at the start, was whether this unit wasSAFEto use -- not whether it was as good as a Hakko or Weller that costs four times as much money. Obviously it can't hold a candle to those.So assuming that my brother doesn't do anything exceedingly foolish such as leaving it plugged-in and unattended (like the video on the first page), and takes all of the usual precautions that one would take when soldering (whatever those may be), would this unit burn up in his face?In other words: Is it a physical hazard, above and beyond a typical soldering / hot air unit?Can there be at least somewhat of a consensus on this?And if the answer isYES the X-Tronic is a hazard: then can someone recommend good quality (read: SAFE), equivalent stations for around the same price (in USD)?Regards,-- James

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 10:18:04 pm
content: I think if he can unplug it and stick a multimeter between the metal housing/air-nozzle and the ground pin on the power plug and verify continuity, then he's fine. Better yet, open it and make sure those connections are not going to fall apart, easily. Then just use common sense.There is a shock hazard, if the insulator between the coil and the housing/nozzle is burned through. The ground connection is there to trip the breaker, in case this should ever happen. Beyond that, hot air stations have a heater that can get hot enough to melt and ignite stuff when something goes wrong, period.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2018, 05:55:41 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 31, 2018, 10:18:04 pmOkay, thank you.I honestly don't know what your instructions mean, so I will pass it onto him if he hasn't seen your post already, and let him deal with it.Regards,-- James

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2018, 04:44:43 pm
content: Kl27x, i checked the ground between the hot air gun and the ground pin from the back of the station and they are connectednot sure what you mean by metal housing? if you are talking the outside of the case there is no continuity there between yhe case and the ground from my test. did you mean open it up and check the metal frame...... I havent done that yet

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2018, 06:29:04 am
content: *Any* exposed metal part on the unit should have continuity with the ground pin on the power cord. If it doesn't then that is a potential safety issue that should be corrected.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2018, 08:05:07 pm
content: can you or someone post a short video of what a properly grounded unit looks like....... I think i might be doing it wrong or not understanding

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2018, 09:23:44 pm
content: If the case is sheet metal (steel), it's usually painted. But it should still be grounded. The acceptable way to ground a metal case is with a small machine screw and a nut and a locking washer. The ground wire will have a ring terminal on it, and it will be locked down to the case with the screw and nut. Or sometimes it will be locked to the top corner of the transformer with the nut and lock washer, and the transformer will be screwed down to the chassis/housing.In some cases, the paint wasn't removed, adequately, from the grounding spot, so the ground doesn't get connected to the housing. If you were concerned with with safety of a cheap product, this is one thing to check for and remedy. But even this wouldn't keep me up at night. Paint is a modern miracle and is really tough stuff. I'm not sure the dielectric rating, but I bet most paint is good for 110VAC. It would take a freak chain of events for a painted case to shock you. If the insulatino were inadequate, you'd think the current would rather go through that bit o paint at the grounding terminal rather than through paint + human, due to kichoffs and ohms laws. But technically, paint is not regarded as an adequate insulator. (For instance, wood working routers which have an aluminum outer housing for the ridigity to lock to jigs, they have to have a sheet of high temp plastic insulator covering the inside of the housing to be considered double insulated.. A bit of a different animal being unpainted on the outside and ungrounded at all and the fact you're supposed to hold it when in use.... that's a much shorter chain of things going wrong).Most important safety info regarding electrocution: If the thing stops working, unplug and put your shoes on before you start poking around on metal bits.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2018, 07:42:00 pm
content: thanks.What i did so you know, is i stuck one probe on the ground pin on the back of the case (in my pictures earlier) and the other probe on the hot air nozzle. That produced continuityIf i leave the obe probe on the ground and put the other probe on the case, i get nothing.I do think it's painted as you say but i had no idea paint was so good.I just bought some practice soldering kits so i guess ill find out soon enough if this is a good thing or not

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 03:36:24 am
content: Hey guys,Just a quick thought that I had.My brothers practice boards arrived today and he's going to start using it tomorrow to practice his soldering.As an extra safety measure, would it help to place a surge protector between the X-Tronic and the wall outlet? Or would that just be a waste (or maybe even harmful)?I have no clue, just an idea I had.Sorry if it's a really foolish question.Regards,-- James

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 09:31:38 am
content: Quote from: JJST on November 08, 2018, 03:36:24 amComplete waste. You could place GFCI for a whole workbench if you don't have one in electric box.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 02:25:11 pm
content: This applies to all soldering appliances.: Are parts wired correctly? Are the tip and case grounded and safe? What will happen if its accidentally left on and forgotten? Does it present a fire or shock risk? Those are the basic, most important things.Chances are any reputable manufacturer has a good safety record but there is a real problem with some products being knockoffs or even brazenly counterfeited. The knockoff and counterfeit versions are a mixed bag with way too many of them being dangerous.

author: JJST
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 07:30:28 pm
content: Thanks everyone, I appreciate all of your responses and help (and my brother does too).Quote from: cdev on November 08, 2018, 02:25:11 pmIndeed. I suppose that was my overarching point of this entire thread, was that neither I or my brother (who is using the X-Tronic as I type this) know whether X-Tronic is a reputable company or not... there really is very little information about them.As I have repeatedly stated, I have no experience at all with electronics, or electric safety -- and my brother is just beginning to learn all of this -- so his knowledge is firmly embedded at the beginners level.The only "reputable brands" that we know of are Hakko, Weller and JBC -- all three of whom are cost prohibitive to beginner students like my brother or myself.The Quick brand model which was recommended previously in this thread, received rather poor reviews on this very site, so if anyone truly knows of a safer unit than the X-Tronic, that doesn't require selling a kidney to acquire, I am definitely open to it... and would most likely help my brother buy it, just because I care about his safety as he learns (and the rest of us as well)Regards,-- James

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2018, 08:28:27 pm
content: Quote from: JJST on November 08, 2018, 07:30:28 pmI guess you read the thread with one poorly packaged thus having kinks on it's hose. Overall reviews of it are good.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 12:53:32 am
content: My Hakko soldering iron was bought on sale for $89 and shipped it came to $99, which I don't consider to be that expensive. It came with a nice 2 mm chisel tip.Many cheap soldering irons are safe. Many cheap soldering irons are quite good- for their price. My last one was $39 and it had a digital temperature readout which seems accurate enough for daily use. Tips for it (counterfeit Hakko tips) could be bought for almost nothing. They also worked fine. I also got a deal on a bunch of genuine Hakko tips, which fit on it. that was an upgrade that lasted me a while. So for around $55-60 I had a semi decent soldering setup. Which is pretty good value, IMHO.However, certain things were still not working so well. The temperature wasn't coupling to the tip as well as on my Hakko fx-888D. I had to ride the temperature control when I was trying to solder some things. Which was annoying.Thats the main difference.

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 01:36:00 am
content: as james said. Thanks for all the help. I used the station todsy a nit. went ok. I did retest the case for ground, this time not with the painted metal but with each of the screws, as well as the tip of the heat gun snd soldering iron. All had continuity to the ground pin on the plugY3s the hakko 888d can be fairly cheap. But the hot air units are more expensive.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 02:53:56 am
content: Quote from: JJST on November 08, 2018, 07:30:28 pmBoth Hakko and Weller offer entry level professional stations for $100 in the US, so the claim they're cost prohibitive isn't accurate.As per the Quick reviews, they're overwhelmingly good. There was a complaint or two about kinked hoses (product was recently released IIRC), but nothing major nor in anything remotely close to large numbers. I've not seen such complaints in a couple of years or more, so it seems they got it sorted at the factory.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 02:57:06 am
content: QuoteDon't forget that we're talking about a station that has BOTH an iron and Hot Air capability...

author: SpinDoctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:33:45 pm
content: so I've been using it for a few days now, seems to heat up fast and hold temp well. Am assembling a diy radio kit as practice project.One thing i have noticed though is that i can smell burning from the heat gun - but not the soldering iron.Is that normal?i cant get the screws off to open the handle, every time i try i get closer to stripping them