The Antique Toaster that's Better than Yours - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 05:27:20 pm
content: We had one of those when I was a kid, I always thought it was neat.It did have one serious flaw compared to my modern toaster though. If you tried to toast a second batch when the toaster was already hot it would never toast it enough unless you put it down 2 or 3 more times. The toaster I have now has an electronic timer and is very consistent, whether I'm toasting one slice or 10.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 05:27:58 pm
content: Nice to see some good engineering that actually worksEngineering is multidisiplinary and that is how the Sunbeam toaster works, mechanical and thermal engineering you don't need electronics. Now we have "smart wire" or shape memory alloys, SMA wire, it does the same thing but is anybody using it in a real product

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2019, 05:29:45 pm
content: Thanks for that.I remember my father coming home with one of those around 1950. As it was introduced in 1949, it was then new on the market. Being a kid, I didn't realize then just how much thought and engineering went into that toaster.I'll have to ask my brother if he knows what happened to it.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 04:48:08 am
content: Ha. I did that to two T-35 units. His method of replacing the cord wasn't as clean as it should have been.As he said in the video, the nichrome wire to the splice crimps to the cord is at an absolute premium for length. The crimps he used were not the right kind. I got the correct high-temperature, no insulation style from Digi-Key.The real trick is how to get the old crimps off. In this case I used a Dremel grinder with a thin cutoff disk. I cut through the crimp longitudinally, checking to make sure I didn't cut into the nichrome wire. Once the crimp has a slot along its length, twisting a screwdriver will split the old crimp open enough to let it slip off the wire.I then was able to use one of those surround type crimpers to put the new crimp on the nichrome wire. However, this of course won't work with the new cord end. For that I used a regular crimping toolI also grounded them, figuring that they would more than likely be on GFCI circuits, and there was no way to double insulate it.Tuning the thermal motor comes down to 1/16 turn adjustments at a time. It's very sensitive.Tuning the heat control may be necessary due to aging and relaxation of various parts. With the bottom case off, the heat control can be adjusted over several turns to get it into nominal, allowing for +/- 1/4 turn once it's assembled.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 05:03:21 am
content: You could do the same thing with a small motor instead of the wire actuator. Why auto lowering toasters aren't more common, even when they have "smart" "IOT" spyware rubbish toasters is beyond belief.If your "smart toaster" doesn't lower the bread for you, it's a STUPID toaster!(Make that a slogan for the modern version of this thing)

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 05:34:51 am
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on April 22, 2019, 04:48:08 amYeah, but he's not anywhere near an EE or electrician. He could have done a lot worse for someone who doesn't know a whole lot about what they are doing.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 02:39:09 pm
content: While it's cool, it's also kind of a gimmick. I'm not convinced that auto-lowering really solves a problem or is worth the added complexity. It fit nicely in the culture of the 1950s when the wonders of technology were going to make life easier but I'm not sure the concept would have quite the same mass appeal today.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 04:10:43 pm
content: There are many auto lowering/leverless toasters available:https://www.amazon.com/Breville-BTA820XL-Die-Cast-1-2-Inch-5-2-Inch/dp/B00140SC64https://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-CPT-420-Leverless-2-Slice-Toaster/dp/B006OQSO8Ehttps://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-2-Slice-Toaster-One-Touch-Digital/dp/B003TT2Q1U

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 04:44:39 pm
content: Those are all push-button not fully automatic. And at least the first one, and probably the rest, are way less power than the old toaster.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 04:53:12 pm
content: Those old toasters can't be very energy efficient. Better use a modern one.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 04:59:43 pm
content: Remember having to drop the bread in a few times to trigger it.There was an article in BYTE (I think) that was about putting a micro in a toaster. I seem to remember it being about the King's toast. I think they kill the embedded guy but I am sure I have the whole story wrong.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 10:48:12 pm
content: Does anybody care how much energy a toaster uses? Unless it's in a commercial setting it's probably used what, 5 minutes a day? And it's a resistance element, nearly 100% of the input power turns into heat.Anyway those classic Sunbeams are totally cool, I just don't know that the concept really offers a lot to the modern world. I'd like to have one for the novelty factor but I don't recall the performance of the one my parents had to be anything spectacular, it was just a neat gadget given to them by my grandfather who loved kitchen gadgets.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 11:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 22, 2019, 10:48:12 pmResistance elements being nearly 100% effective when it's heat you're after was the joke.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2019, 11:50:58 pm
content: I turned down repairing an antique toaster, it's all asbestos insulators for the heating element. You don't want to eat or inhale that stuff.I don't know the construction of old Toastmaster toasters, but I would use modern parts which are available, to update it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 12:21:03 am
content: They used mica IIRC, no need to update anything, they're safe to use in original form.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 02:09:35 am
content: I'm not sure. This Sunbeam has porcelain standoffs for the coiled heaters, and thick insulating blocks for the nichrome wire. See video at 6:05, they are thicker than mica and grey, and move... The nichrome wire expanding due to heating is the source of motion for the bread going up and down. L.J Koci his radiation pyrometer patent mentions asbestos for a part, the same era mid 1940's.Sunbeam Products filed for bankruptcy in 2001. CEO "Chainsaw Al" job cuts for 6,000 people, accounting fraud, junk bonds, $1.9B debt. Stock from $58/share to $0.09 it's quite the wreck. Vulture investors bought them, and now it's owned by mega consumer conglomerate Newell Rubbermaid. So I'm skeptical we'll ever see innovation like this for a toaster. They're too worried about product fires, melting things, and profit.How hard is to make a modern radiation-pyrometer looking at the toast surface? Handheld ones are a few dollars today.That's how this thing works. Toaster Control Mechanism, filed 1942US Patent 2,459,170.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 03:27:24 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 22, 2019, 11:15:19 pmI know it was just a joke, but that really only applies when there is nowhere else for the heat to go. In this case there is likely a real (not necessarily meaningful) differences in efficiency of getting heat into the bread. I would expect the higher heater power to be more efficient (less time for heat to conduct away), but the lack of insulation probably makes up for it.Anyway, pretty interesting video. The auto-lowering/raising is a gimmick but an awesome one. The shielded thermostat to measure the bread surface temperature is a really nice feature given the technology of the era -- I have definitely used older thermostat (rather than timer) toasters that were pretty bad. Timers are OK, but I am not convinced that a modern toaster with a decent implementation of an IR thermometer wouldn't do better.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 03:57:55 am
content: I suspect there are substantial variations in the efficiency of toasters. Sure they all convert nearly all of the electricity into heat, but how much of that heat gets to the bread vs heating up the cabinet or venting out the too?But it's all academic since the efficiency doesn't matter for something so infrequently used.I wouldn't worry about a small amount of asbestos either, the stuff isn't nearly as bad as the paranoia has made it out to be, the people who got sick from it tended to have largeoccupstional exposures, mining the stuff, working in shipyards and such.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 07:50:45 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on April 23, 2019, 03:27:24 amI'm not sure what is required for good toast. Just dumping the maximum amount of energy into a piece of bread may not lead to nice toast.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 08:23:09 am
content: That toaster will sell better than sliced bread, just add WiFi and make it Cloud connected!

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 10:01:28 am
content: Naaa.... Here in Aussie Land mate, we use the Paul Hogan method !!!!!!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 10:08:46 am
content: I guess the white material on the wall is Asbestos, right?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 11:24:23 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on April 23, 2019, 10:08:46 amThis was the 70s. Everything was made of asbestos and cigarette smoke.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2019, 11:40:46 am
content: Ha!! Yep.I really don't think old 'sheets' of the stuff is a major problem though...Mainly after 'grinding', 'cutting', & major 'drilling' etc...Mind you, later in my life, i DID used to think about when I changed old BRAKE drum Pads,and you blew out the tons of old Asbestos crap from the Drums !!!!!!!!