AMD/Xilinx announced Spartan UltraScale+ family - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2024, 01:03:09 am
content: https://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/fpga/spartan-ultrascale-plus.html#productTableIt covers the range from 11K cells to 218K cells, so pretty much entire existing range of Spartan-7 and Artix-7. I found a couple of things curious - first off, some of higher-end parts will have MGTs and PCIE4 blocks (up to PCIE4x8 or two PCIE4x4), which means that they will compete directly with Artix US+ devices. Also, in addition to typical soft memory controllers for DDR4, some parts will contain hardened controllers for LPDDR4 and LPDDR5 with bandwidth of up to 4266 Mb/s. And of course they are going to have support for all modern physical interfaces like MIPI.Looking at the specs, I see a potential that Spartan US+ (what an acronym!) will make Artix US+ obsolete, but of course the pricing will be crucial here. Current Artix US+ begin (XCAU10P) at about $200 per device, so it would be interesting to see how they will price new devices.Oh, and also forget about convenient 1 mm pitch BGA packages - they are no more (except for FSVG1156 with 1156 balls), and even 0.8 mm begins with 529 balls, with smaller packages having 0.5 mm pitch. In general, these devices have A LOT of IOs, the smallest package has 361 balls.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2024, 08:30:12 am
content: and no medium density 0.8mm easy to use packages in the 200-350 ball range. just giant ones or tiny ones.I have complained... made suggestions....

author: colorado.rob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 09:13:45 pm
content: By only supplying parts in such fine-pitch BGAs, they are gently telling price-sensitive customers "shop elsewhere."

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 09:22:39 pm
content: Yes, but do you really think price-sensitive applications would use the UltraScale+ family to begin with?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 05:32:37 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 08, 2024, 09:22:39 pmIt depends on the level of price sensitivity I guess. Or their strategy regarding "old" families (7 series, US). I remember when Xilinx really wanted customers to move from S6 to 7 series devices, they priced them to be cheaper than corresponding 6 series device. If they would want to do the same here, they might price them quite aggressively. Though I personally doubt it.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 05:53:16 am
content: Well, unless they they become *very* aggressive specifically with this Spartan US+ series, judging from the current price for the Artix-7 US+, I doubt it as well.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 10:38:21 am
content: I don't see any logical reason they would cannibalize the sales of other product lines. Corporate managers are averse to doing this. When that kind of thing happens it is because competition has forced them through loss of market share.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 03:09:48 pm
content: Good news, I think Chinese FPGA makers cause them this direction, and I think we could get them cheap enough soon, prices like 100~200$ is insane for these and now one would buy them for real products, my estimate is 5$ for the lower ends to 50$ for higher ends, like spartan 6 device prices

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 03:52:31 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on March 09, 2024, 05:32:37 amI'm sure the reason they really wanted people to 7 series instead of S6 was that they didn't want to add S6 support to Vivado, and didn't want to support ISE

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 06:50:01 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on March 09, 2024, 03:09:48 pmKeep dreaming

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 06:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on March 09, 2024, 10:38:21 amI don't think they really care about low-end market to be honest. Their cash cows are space, comms and military, and those folks tend to not care about component prices as much.Just look at what they called "cost-optimized portfolio" and you will see that they have no idea what cost optimization is in real market outside of customers with blank cheques.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 07:07:01 pm
content: Quote from: colorado.rob on March 08, 2024, 09:13:45 pmIt's really only price sensitive *and* low volume that cares about that. It's not surprising that they don't cater to that market.Also if you are low volume you can probably use one of their partner SOMs. At least for what they call "midrange" and above, you can get an entire SOM with voltage regulators, DRAM, flash memory, and board to board connectors in single unit quantities for less than the FPGA itself in unit quantities. Obviously in higher volumes you don't actually pay the digikey price, and for "low end" parts like the spartan US+ the cost of the SOM parts is a bigger fraction but it still can be an attractive option for low volume.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 07:42:40 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on March 09, 2024, 07:07:01 pmEven that becomes less of a problem thanks to the folks like JLCPCB, which make higher-layer count PCB tech more accessible. If someone would tell me two years ago that now I can have 10 layer PCBs manufactured with via-in-pad for ~$200, I wouldn't believe it, and yethere they are. The only thing that's holding me from going all-in to 0.5 mm BGAs is their lack of support for 0.08 mm traces, which is a requirement for fitting a trace between via field, and/or of course blind-buried vias, but I can't see how they can implement this with a shared-panel approach.Quote from: ejeffrey on March 09, 2024, 07:07:01 pmSOMs have their own problems in a sense that they limit what you can implement. If your application happens to fit with what SOM offers, that's good, but in my experience most of my designs relied heavily on the fact that I can customize memory interface parameters (bus width, capacity), in one case I actually needed two separate DDR3 interfaces (which you will never find on a SOM). And of course fully custom designs tend to be more compact (high-speed connectors are typically by far the largest parts on a board, so you have a ton of PCB space by just NOT having them), which sometimes is also important.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 08:15:49 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on March 09, 2024, 06:52:05 pmXilinx' prices are highly flexible. In some cases they'll slash 80% off the list price of a 4k dollar FPGA just to get the project.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2024, 09:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on March 09, 2024, 03:52:31 pmThat was probably at least part of the reason, yes.But while initially they "gently" pushed people to the 7 series, now the pricing of the 6 series has become so absurd that it's absolutely impossible to keep producing devices with it unless you have a lot of stock, or you have secured a tight agreement with XIlinx years ago. (The third option being probably to buy it from dodgy asian sources.) Or, of course, if it's part of a very expensive device in which the FPGA is only a tiny fraction of the cost, even at the current prices. That basically is just niche products.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 09:15:51 am
content: I know it's old thread, But do you have any idea when we can buy these chips?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 02:33:29 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on April 28, 2025, 09:15:51 amFromhttps://www.amd.com/en/products/adaptive-socs-and-fpgas/fpga/spartan-ultrascale-plus.htmlQuoteThat usually means GA is still about a year away.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 09:01:10 am
content: QuoteSo why they announce it several years ahead, It's Like I would say I would have a new pretty girl friend in 2030

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 10:51:18 am
content: I have some SU35 chips..... they arrived yesterday. They're quite fast. and small, like 9x9 361 balls, which is not my favourite, but there is a job for these.I can tell you more when the embargoes are finished....But I think they will be full prooduction on production silicon Q3.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 12:04:48 pm
content: QuoteHave you eval board for them? and do you have any price info?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2025, 01:38:36 pm
content: Quote from: glenenglish on April 29, 2025, 10:51:18 amGood to see they are showing up! I would be more interested in SU65 and above. I need a device with a metric ton of LVDS capable of 1600 Mbps for my hobby scope project - at least 48 diff pairs (but preferably double that - 96 pairs for 4 channels) + acquisition RAM + PCIE to transfer data to main SoC for displaying. And it looks like there aren't that many FPGAs which can actually do that - especially if there is a limitation of only using devices available with the free webpack license.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 05:46:32 am
content: see attached pic...Yes, ES grade samples available, contact your FAE .Competitively priced

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2025, 05:59:17 am
content: ASMI the AU7P in a 484 package parts have two full HPIO banks, 26 diff pairs per bank, plus 144 HDIO...and they're cheap cheap.and Ultrascale+ HPIO is sooo much nicer than 7 series with features.but 96 pairs...options for your 96 pairs :AU10 parts and AU15 parts about same price, but available 676 package and PCIeGen4 and more IOs. but only 75 pairs.Altera A5E in B32A package (quite easy to route 0.8mm BGA rules)96 pairs at 1600 Mbps. M16A package (0.5mm also has 96 pairs )(but only about 68 pairs with 32 bit LPDDR attached )Efinix - all the Titanium in 400 ball upwards have got support for100 pairsOR MORE and$40 for Ti180big part...... or 105 pairs for the chip swith SoCso your best option is a Efinix part, and their DDR LVDS IO works, really good delay taps etcBiggest Efinix has 117 x 1250 Mbps pairs, 4 transciever quads with hard IP for PCIeGen4 x4 and 10 Gb ethernet x 4 AND 32 bit wide LPDDR x 2. 350,000 LUT4s and 1300 DSPs and $200. (1156 package 1mm)

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:22:42 am
content: QuoteCan we expect getting lower end devices for around 10$

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 12:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on May 01, 2025, 11:22:42 amNo.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 10:38:16 pm
content: most likely, with good volumes.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2025, 12:12:49 pm
content: QuoteSo we can expect to see these in Chinese stores at lower prices this year, like lcsc

author: cagrant
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 01:25:15 am
content: Quote from: glenenglish on April 30, 2025, 05:59:17 amI have a design I'd like to get started on, I haven't heard anything back from AMD about samples. I'm considering going with an Efinix part at this point since I can actually buy them. Do you have any recommendations or connections for contacting AMD about these? I gave Avnet a call but they said they can't get them right now.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 10:58:23 am
content: Efinix is good, I'd recommend it . Tools are good, parts are good. Efinix designs run about 1/2 to 2/3 the speed of an -1 US+ design, but Efinix gives you 2+ times the # of LUTs and many more DSPs and peripherals for the same price... But they cant do partial reconfiguration.I'm guessing AVNET is your FAE.I've been on the SU+ early access program for > 6 months. It's too late for that now.But buying them from Digikey now is not far away... They're taking orders for chips and dev kits....Send me a PM.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2025, 10:10:43 pm
content: But, no you are not going to buy these in single piece quantity for $10 from Digikey.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2025, 09:21:01 am
content: QuoteWho said digikey? I'm sure we can get them in Chinese suppliers with much better prices soon enough, like other Xilinx/AMD parts from the past.Lot's of great examplescheckout this XC7K325T-2FFG900I outthe XC7K325T-2FFG900C (C version which is a downgrade) priced $2,598.75 @Digikeyhttps://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/amd/XC7K325T-2FFG900C/2767550XC7K325T-2FFG900I priced 85$ @LCSChttps://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Programmable-Logic-Device-CPLDs-FPGAs_AMD-XILINX-XC7K325T-2FFG900I_C396344.html?s_z=n_XC7K325T

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 12:02:06 pm
content: Guys I found something new, what would you do with a Kintex® UltraScale+™ part for under 100$XCKU5P-2FFVB676I @ 102$https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Programmable-Logic-Device-CPLDs-FPGAs_AMD-XILINX-XCKU5P-2FFVB676I_C3278066.html?s_z=n_XCKU5Pdigikey price $3,396.250https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/amd/XCKU5P-2FFVB676I/6797925

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 02:10:12 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on May 05, 2025, 09:21:01 amI got some cheap artix7 from LCSC, they probably work just fine but the QR code is lasered off

author: Sniper1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 11:06:57 am
content: FPGA nooob here.So they are over a super wide range. How do they compare the the Zynq US+ series?Also between FPGAs from AMD how hard would be the HW design ? As in would it be harder to design with them , i saw that there is no more 1mm pitch ( hand solderable easy). fan out space is what concerns me a bit.Also i dont understand the part with RAM controllers at all.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2025, 07:10:16 pm
content: All Xilinx 7-series FPGAs are BGA only. You can't hand solder them. Hobbyists can use them, but it takes a solder stencil and an oven to solder them to a PCB.The biggest hurdle is breaking out the signals you need, and the finer the pitch, the more difficult this is. Four layers is the minimum, with six layers being more viable.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 12:00:42 am
content: Lattice and Efinix have some QFP parts you can solderbut, my suggestion is you buy a cheap dev board/breakout board if you want the fancy chips.minimum 4 layers in order to meet power delivery requirements. you can do some of the QFP power delivery with 4 layers by (P1 ground) and using a segmented P2 power delivery.suggest a thin PCB like 1 or 1.2mm if layer count is low (4-6) to minimum via lengths...

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2025, 09:20:39 pm
content: SU 10/25/35 parts all info is now public as of 31 May. Parts are available to order.My first dev kits will arrive tomorrow.Should expect SU200 into ES soon. That's a biggie with some modern facilities (LPDDR4 hard DDRMC etc)https://docs.amd.com/v/u/en-US/ultrascale-plus-fpga-product-selection-guidenotice the SU150/SU200 have UltraRAMS.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 07:17:26 am
content: -attached- dev kit picture

author: scottapotamas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 07:33:44 am
content: Nice to see SYZYGY appearing a bit more on devkits.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 07:48:00 am
content: Does the Spartan Ultrascale+ include ARM CPU hardware (like Zynq)? The product brief mentions a "Platform Management Controller". What's that?

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2025, 08:33:18 am
content: "Does the Spartan Ultrascale+ include ARM CPU hardware (like Zynq)? The product brief mentions a "Platform Management Controller". What's that?"no hard processor . best bet at low end currently is still Z7007, Z7010. but there is a pretty good (mainlined) RISCV port for it, although I would suggest microblaze classic, its a better fit.the PMC ?, you can read about it : it's a type of secure boot controller,that also handles DFX.https://www.amd.com/en/products/adaptive-socs-and-fpgas/fpga/spartan-ultrascale-plus.html#resources@ Scott- I have hi res photos of it if ur interested. I have two, happy to lend one to you, I'll have to check my NDA though.

author: scottapotamas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2025, 05:22:08 am
content: Quote from: glenenglish on June 06, 2025, 08:33:18 amAppreciate the offer, but can't see myself finding time this year for a side project capable of give it a fair run.