Rigol DS1104Z vs Siglent SDS1104X-E - any reviews? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 04:08:25 am
content: HiRigol DS1104Z vs Siglent SDS1104X-E - any reviews or shootouts?I have the Siglent and just found out about the Rigol. Which one is better?Thanks

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 04:54:57 am
content: i found this one a few days ago

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 05:33:45 am
content: Thanks. That's the only one I could find, too.Only covers a freg response. I like the extra buttons around the screen even if it eats display space. I hate hunting thru a multi mesa menu maze.Perhaps Dave? Dave? Dave?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 07:58:31 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 04:08:25 amHere we go again....(Yes, there's thousands of "shootouts", all pointless - see next answer)Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 04:08:25 amOne of them is more expensive than the other so why would you compare them both head-to-head?"Bang-per-buck" is about the same, so... the simple answer is that the more expensive one is better! (mostly - see next answer)Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 05:33:45 amWhere is the Rigol "better", you ask? That would be one place... turning on measurements is something you do a lot when you use a 'scope and it's a lot faster/easier on the Rigol.PS: Have you heard about the GW-Instek? There's someseriousbang-per buck - under $300 with the EEVBLOG discount!https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?search=true

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 10:15:14 am
content: SDS1104X-E is cheapest scope that has 2x 1GS/sec A/D converters, so it can sample on 4 ch with 500Ms/sec each.Also it has low noise front end so you can look at the smaller signals than other scopes.It also has color grading. It is quite fast too. And some other advantages..It is one class up from DS1054Z. How much some people like user interface is matter of preference..DS1054Z has some good stuff, like Trend plot. Also it has very good analog display emulation, for those that like analog like waveform display. It is absolutely usable, and not a toy, but has some shortcomings.Better comparison is Rigol DS1054Z to the new SDS1104X-U, that also has 1 A/D converter...

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:14:19 pm
content: My question is about the Rigol DS1104Z, not the DS1054Z. There are a lot shootouts and reviews about the 1054Z, but not much about the 1104Z. But thanks for your replies re: DS1054Z. The RigolDS1104Z is more expensive than the Siglent so does that make it better?And yet going off that topic for a moment. I'll do some homework on the Instek GW, too. I like ease of use and kind of deplore deep menus, but mostly because I'm still new to the DSO computers.@Fungus. What's your take on the Instek GW 1054 and do you consider it practically close to equal to the Siglent SDS1104X-E in features? Is it hackable easily? Is it easy to use? The link shows it for $310 u.s.Thanks.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:21:54 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 06:14:19 pmIt's exactly the same but 100MHz bandwidth.You can buy a DS1054Z and convert it to a DS1104Z with akey generator.Given that, it's not surprising that they don't sell many DS1104Zs and there's not many reviews of them.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:23:16 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 06:14:19 pmThe Rigol DS1054Z is equal to the DS1104Z. Same hardware, same software just a different license. You can use a keygen to turn a DS1054Z into the higher end model.QuoteThe GDS-1054B is hackable using a key generator as well. Besides that it also has individual channel controls and (if you have a recent model) it is simple to replace the 7" screen with an 8" screen. For basic operations the Siglent and GW Instek scope are very close where the Rigol is an older model but as others noted it has some functions the others don't have. It is not possible to say which oscilloscope is fundamentally better or offers better value for money. It all comes down to which features you find important so the main question is: what do you need an oscilloscope for?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 06:14:19 pmIt's somewhere between the Rigol and Siglent in terms of abilities. The UI is nicer/more responsive than the others, it has four separate channel controls, it's easily hackable to 100MHz+all features. It's a nice little 'scope.Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 06:14:19 pmYep. It's an absolute bargain.(...and you can get one for under $300 if you find the EEVBLOG discount code in these forums)

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 07:27:33 pm
content: Great input, thank you.I'm primarily doing audio and may do an FM tuner, radio or a digital audio power amp from time to time.It was pointed out to me in another thread I'm in, that these scopes are not really great for baseband audio having 8bit converters and are fairly noisy in high gain mode. And I might be better off with "Waveform" software and an outboard audio 16 or 24 bit 196K adc. That makes good sense to me and gives me dbV readings although my ACVM does that too.But I want to have a 4 ch to replace my ancient 2 ch Hitachi 35mhz because the DSO can record waveforms and multi channel events when something fails. Right now I have the Siglent SDS1104X-E in a 30 day Amazon tryout.Convenience seems to be important. I don't think the better front end of the Siggy will make much difference in base band audio. But since my only experience is with the Siggy I'm asking others opinions and experiences with the 4 channel DSO. Not so much for price but ease of use to get what I need. Your BW is much greater than mine in that domain.The FFT function on the GW seems to be very easy to use and was demonstrated with a 1K sq. wave in some of the videos posted by GW. Again, I'm new to FFT so I don't have the depth of knowledge to make quick menu selections.And my thanks again for helping me (and others) choose the right DSO for my needs.Sparks

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 08:39:24 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 07:27:33 pmFor audio? Definitely.(Plus it's free!)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 11:08:46 pm
content: For audio it will definitely be useful to have low noise and high sensitivity. Rigol has 5mV/div best sensitivity in hardware, while SDS1104X-E has 500uV/div and lower noise. Looking at dynamic microphone or MM/MC pickup cartridge will be much better with Siglent.. Or some other scope with higher sensitivity and lower noise than DS1054Z.For in depth measurement of audio (frequency response, distortion) audio interface + software will be better.But with SDS1104X-E you can follow your signal from input of FM radio, check LO, check IF, demodulation, and audio until end.With it's good resolution FFT you can tune 10.7 MHz IF pass-band filters etc..

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 03:30:43 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 13, 2021, 07:27:33 pmThe SDS1104X-E feature set is strong in its class and hard to beat although it's apparent with it being your first DSO you're struggling with the UI and that's understandable as a DSO in this class has a power of capability and the UI for such cannot be accommodated on the front panel with buttons and levers. Instead familiarity needs to develop with the UI and where to find everything and how to get the best from it.Unlike a CRO you can't just operate a DSO cold turkey and the need to study the manual is paramount.The best online info on the capability of SDS1104X-E is right here on the forum by one of the beta testers for it of which I was one too.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/Some features have improved somewhat from first release however the documents in this thread clearly demonstrate its capacities are pretty good of a DSO of this class.Exactly where you are Sparky is where I was some 15 years ago when I got my first DSO after having a good few CRO's all acquired broken, fixed and later onsold before I ventured into the DSO world.I hope you can grow to become comfortable with the SDS1104X-E and although you might not use/need all its power right now it's certainly and instrument you can grow into as your knowledge/skills develop.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 05:03:02 am
content: @Tautech - Thanks so much for your help!I think you are right. A lot of things to get used to and compare.I can't tell how many hours I've spent trying to nail down my choice. It's not so much a matter of $ but convenience and being the best fit for me. I agree with you and have a gut feeling that the Siggy is a better scope. I did see impressive FFT work on the Instek with a good automatic setup. But the Rigol and GW are both 6 yrs old and Siggy is only 3 yrs old with a better front end. I've also gotten good support from the Sig tech guy.I may take an hour or 2 to map the menu, ordered by where I need to go followed by how to get there. If I do I'll publish it here.I think I'm going to test drive the Instek while I still have a return period on the Siggy just to make sure I'll be happy. - and maybe save $150 and spend it on a HV differential probe.You're absolutely right. It's the UI that slows me down by an annoying amount. I do know how to use a scope and the knobs on my Hitachi gave me instant gratification. Just have to clean the switches once in a while. The other thing about the UI is it's like Windows 95. I'm a Mac man, so you get my point.There are some things that make me swear, like the "intensity adjust" knob which takes menu hunting 2 layers down, to use. They call it that while they call it the "universal control" in the manual, it is confusing. And that pushbutton turns when I push which is crazy making. A separate button would be so nice as Dave said. Also I instinctively go for that to dim the display knob when I'm not using the scope but want it on even though I know I have to use the screen saver setting.And UNDO would be most helpful after I do an automatic setup that doesn't work out. Win 95?BTW, the intensity only dims the traces and not the menus or readouts so . . . a little short.Again, Thanks. I find opinions here to be well thought out unlike motorcycle forums, then again, it's a collection of engineers. Most of you have more innate BW than I will ever need.PS Been fooling around with the FFT for a bit and I think I'm getting the hang of it.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 05:36:51 am
content: If you are doing audio, it's not a close call. The ability to do a Frequency Response/Phase Shift plot with the appropriate signal generator add-on should seal the deal all by itself.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 06:32:43 am
content: You have a point. I can do that now with my Leader generator, except I can't plot it. All I really need to know is where does it affect my amplifier's frequency response. I can't measure below 10hz but I can do a lissajous pattern to measure phase shift at 10 hz which is very close to 0deg., a straight line on my old scope, which tells me the bass cutoff is nice and low. I can also hear the result in listening test. etc, etc.It would be cool to have a sweep generator controlled by the scope or vice versa. Is there anything around cheaper than the Siglent add-on? Also would be good for FM alignment.Thank you.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 07:45:34 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2021, 11:08:46 pma) Rigol had 1mV/div last time I checked.b) 500uV/div doesn't magically solve everything. You'll befarbetter off with a $20 external signal amplifier fed into a horrible noisy 'scope than owning just a scope on it's own.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 09:48:53 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 14, 2021, 07:45:34 amRigol 1mV/div is created by software zoom of 5 mV/div together with noise. That is primary reason for such a high noise on DS1054Z, because scope drops to 5-6 bit of resolution and keeps 5mv/div noise.....That means that in your parlance , SDS1104X-E has a 10X low noise preamp already built in ... So no need for external one.That also means, that with SDS1104X-E, you can get good measurement of signals that are 10x lower than with DS1054Z.Whether that means something to you is another question.Or should I reverse the question: Do you see any difference in quality of viewing and measuring signals with your Micsg compared to your DS1054Z?I know I see huge difference when measuring signals less than 10-20 mV P-P.SDS1104X-E have front end noise comparable to Micsig.. And two A/Ds to keep sampling rate high enough for all the purposes.You might not like U/I on Siglent SDS1104X-E (as a personal preference), but signal integrity is not questionable, and is very good for the class...Also, relying on external preamps is not practical for usual workflow, for instance on FM radio. As I mentioned, it is a huge advantage that you can follow the signal from antenna to the speaker in one go, with same instrument.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 10:40:31 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 14, 2021, 09:48:53 amThe Siglent has a few DB more, nobody's disputing that.OTOH: If I worked on dynamic microphones and/or pickup cartridges with a 4 channel 'scope I'd have a 20-30dB amplifier permanently connected to one of the channels. I wouldn't be relying on just the 'scope to do the job.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 11:03:36 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 14, 2021, 10:40:31 amThat is what I'm telling you.. With Siglent SDS1104X-E (or equivalent) you don't need any preamp most of the time for general work.You can repair all day and see all you need to see, without any amplifiers. With right AWG, you can also check frequency responses, filters, tone circuits...And check any power circuits you would need in practice.For in depth analysis of noise, distortion, frequency response and other parametric characterisation etc, you will need audio analyser or audio interface+software.E-bay special 20 USD amplifier and 8 bit scope won't do it...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 11:33:49 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 14, 2021, 05:03:02 amThis is what we all face when we move to a DSO but how you use any scope can also have an impact on your initial DSO experience where if you are a twiddle the knobs sort of guy as opposed to the analytical type that considers any adjustment before it is made the move to a DSO is easier.Navigating menus can be easier than you imagine and I quite understand the frustration the multipurpose/multifunction encoder gives to some but it's not the only way to make a menu selection as when the menu button is repeatedly pressed the selection toggles down through the menu and use of the encoder is not required although it can be used for the same purpose and this is where many develop frustration which arises from how they use it or where the DSO is placed so to operate it effectively.If too high on a shelf it's difficult to rest 3 fingers on the top of the DSO so to have good control of the thumb and forefinger to make precise adjustments. Likewise when a numerical value needs changing we have another feature so that when the encoder is pressed a virtual keypad appears that we can select digits or letters (depending on menu) and the multiplier and while this can seem laborious it's much faster than spinning the encoder to a desired value.Only time using the SDS1104X-E reveals all the little tricks of how to use it efficiently.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 04:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 14, 2021, 06:32:43 amNot that offers the same level of functionality. IMO, the best companion for your scope is the SDG 2042X-H (hacked to 120MHz--you should always hack your Siglent gear...). For repair and testing of everything up to the FM tuner inputs and down to the speaker crossovers and everything in between. Just be aware, that like everything else, the quality of the signal may not be quite up to audio standards. The 14-bit output is pretty darn close, good enough for everything but actual production. However, the analog modulation input apparently is only 8-bit and not adjustable, so if you use it as an FM broadcast point, the sound will be noticeably distorted. That's just the way it is with digital AWG gear. Good for testing, repair, adjustment and experimentation, not so good for actual listening.It's another $500. Still, I think the combo blows away anything you can find for $1000, used or new.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:31:55 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 14, 2021, 09:48:53 amThank you for slugging this out while I was asleep!I get it. The Siggy's a better machine especially for low level signals. 2 ADCs etc.To put my questions in context, here is some info about me.My usual work flow is not heavy. I'm semi - retired. Repairs are part-time and only for my former customers and as a hobby for me during the covid mess which has sidelined me and all musicians for the last year.I earned a masters in music in 2015 and when we can perform again the shop is going away and my first love - music - returns in whatever capacity I am capable of.My audio customers are those who own hi-end audio equipment. I built and sold a hybrid tube-mosfet power amp called Moscode with a company called NY Audio Labs in 80s. Also, I built and serviced tube preamps and Futterman and Counterpoint OTL amplifiers, (OTL-output transformer-less tube amplifiers). I have made a lot of improvements in those product and have offered upgrades as well as repairs for the last 35 years. I'm one of the few guys who actually know the ins an outs of this stuff only experience can bring and audiophiles respect me because I'm a musician and I have good ears, which is the final test equipment, just like your eyes are for your TV. I went to the NY HIFI show when I was 12, around 19*% or so. The sound and the music both grabbed me.It's a niche market and I'm not taking on a lot of work and am not actively promoting my services of modifications and repairs. I have a few professional clients in the recording industry. I'm all analogue all the way - until now. Don't make me go back! I have a 35 year old Hitachi 2 channel and I'm not afraid to use it!!Having some new gear is a treat to myself and this is probably the last DSO I will buy so I want to have the best of the gear that is appropriate for me. I also want to know how to work it.THAT SAID- back to the gear.Mics and cartridges- they work or they don't. I can't fix the guts of a $1000 cartridge, a dynamic mic is usually a connector problem and if the business end is broken due to a drop then get a replacement from the maker. Condenser mics - outside of a few Neuman U47s or 67s and AKGs I've modified, I've not had my hand in them for 25 - 30 years except upgrading a few cheapies to record my groups with. And they are simple. The low end Behringer mic preamps/mixers are good enough to test any mic and they have phantom power built in for condenser mics. I manufactured phono preamps and full function preamps so I have eq'd RIAA low noise preamps good enough for a MC cartridge with a 10 ohm load. Now if I was building speakers or mics I would invest in hi end measurement equipment. I have Quad ESL63 speakers, slightly modified, and they are the most revealing speakers I have heard to this day. And I get my ears cleaned regularly. Not to start an argument but there are some things you can't measure with anything but your senses. You don't take a DSO on your first date. First off, it has the wrong probes. . .My Leader millivoltmeter has 80 db of gain, is fairly quiet and has 10 db/step attenuators. But I want the quietest scope so when I look at a 400v power supply regulator I can see the hum in the grass. I figure a HV blocking cap can safely let me snoop around. If not back to the Leader. It would be nice to nail down any parasitic oscillations that are in the grass so the DSO would help there.I may have to be involved in an Acoustat direct drive amplifier for electrostatic speakers for a friend, in which case we are looking at 5KV plate voltage and 2 P-P bridge tube amplifiers to drive the stators. A HV probe will probably get me there though a HV diff probe would be nice but a 5kv one would be bookoo bucks. 2 $49 HV probes with some math in the scope will suffice.FM work. I have a few tube tuners I have collected over the years. I may want to play with those. Also a Telefunken Opus 7 mono radio in use, and a few short wave sets. Here's the problem - for the most part in my area there's not too much worth listening to. The strongest station is smooth jazz. Meh. So . . . maybe a good sweep gen or modulator. Your recommendations are appreciated.I want to quote a few other posts so I will follow up with more posts.Thanks for your patience and camaraderie. Nice to not be alone in the corona-verse.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:44:44 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 15, 2021, 02:31:55 amGood HV scope probes don't cost the earth and I got one of these 1000:1 8KV probes for myself until a customer wanted it so I let it go:http://www.pintek.com.tw/product_detail/landersound/index.php?Product_SN=127265&Company_SN=6002&Product_Site_Classify_SN=17071I quite like these 100:1 300 MHz sensing probes as they're red which constantly reminds you when you're probing HV to be careful as it might bite !http://www.pintek.com.tw/product_detail/landersound/index.php?Product_SN=19272&Company_SN=6002&Product_Site_Classify_SN=17073

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:01:08 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 14, 2021, 11:33:49 amA. I twiddle. Let's see what this button does. Having an UNDO button would be a big timesaver, especially if it can be unlimited. No one knows exactly what happens in every auto setup and how to undo it. I think the Instek has one.B. Repeated press of menu buttons-Got it! thanks for the tip!C. Well, as they answer to "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" - practice, practice, practice!Quote from: tautech on February 15, 2021, 02:44:44 amThank you very much. I think I now have 4 recommendations in this thread for these. Hopefully another person will benefit from all this talk besides me. The 1.2KV diff probe is $167 on Amazon. Not high enough voltage for that project if I have to do it. Also, the HV probes will be very handy with my Quad ESL to see where the protection kicks in. 5 KV polarizing voltage in those and delay lines. Delay lines make a virtual point source 30 cm behind the speaker according to Peter Walker the inventor.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:51:36 am
content: I'm reading through the Performa01 review of the the Siggy in question. I have to say after seeing your questions and remarks in that thread and so many others and the depth you guys have with this stuff I'm honored to get your advice and insight.My only regret is that I didn't pick the name CK722.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 11:06:41 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 15, 2021, 02:31:55 amThis is the info that should have been in the first post. You're working onthatsort of job, you understand the issues, you know what a blocking cap is.I suspect you can get by with 2 channels so that drops the price a bit. Given the requirements and the gear you're working on the price difference between the 'scopes being discussed is probably unimportant. Might as well get the Siglent.(I stand by my comment that the hum in the grass will be a lot more visible with a signal amplifier though, or send it through a low pass lawn mower first).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 11:35:05 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 15, 2021, 03:51:36 am

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 01:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 15, 2021, 03:51:36 amThat (CK722) was a 60 year old germanium transistor from RaytheonIt was an early plastic cased transistor that shinning a flashlight on would completely change it's characteristicsBest,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 07:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on February 15, 2021, 01:50:46 pmThat's why I gave thumbs up, it is older than 2N3055....

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 03:30:52 am
content: I'm a 69 year old chunk of germanium. If you shine a light on me my characteristics change too. Not recommended.One more question (for now).Does the Sig need to be hacked or wifi via usb enabled to log into it from my laptop via an ethernet cable direct Sig to Mac?I've been trying to get the web server with an ethernet cable to my MAC laptop.I tried the default IP address on the Sig - 10.11.13.220 in Chrome and changed it and tried that address 192.168.55.116 because I saw that on someone's screenshot. And no-dice.Here's my settings on the Mac.ON the Sig:Here is a screenshot with my camera. The print button is not working in the utility menu with the IP address selected. A BUG??Any suggestions?What am I doing wrong (regarding this)?Last is a screenshot I just took after going up a layer out of the Utility menu. I'm getting the hang of the FFT but I had to exit the utility menu to take the shot.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 03:34:20 am
content: And the images in the post don't wind up in the right places in the post. I pick inline and they all wind up at the end.The photo of the entire screen shows the menus that seem to disable taking a screenshot.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 03:59:22 am
content: To setup webserver access all devices are best to be on the same subnet on your LAN.Then assign an IP to the scope and save then drop that IP into your browser and you should be all go.Peer to peer connection can be accomplished but it's typically harder to get connected.Instead a network switch on the bench and each item in its own port and let your modem handle the DHCP works pretty good.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 04:06:38 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 16, 2021, 03:30:52 amPut the ethernet cable from the Siglent into your router, if you can. If you can't, hack it and get a Wi-Fi dongle. Think of the Siglent as just another item on your network, like printer or music server.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 04:40:24 am
content: @Tautech: If I understand you correctly:I can use a generic router in between these 2 to handle the DHCP and turn the wifi off?I can have internet and wifi on at the same time on the Mac so I should be able to use both at the same time. I would prefer to keep this as simple as possible.Do I have to have the Sig connected to my Mac to hack it or can it be done with the USB stick?I used to have a stand alone router and I think I threw out my wifi router so I'll have to look for it. I'm nowhere near the house Comcast wifi box to use a cable.Thanks

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 04:41:32 am
content: I got a message that Sig refused to connect so it seems it is there. but no page just a message.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 08:05:44 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 16, 2021, 04:40:24 amYes, you need the router for DHCP to assign an IP to the scope. If you're not into networking this is the simplest way. On the scope go into Utility>I/O>LAN> DHCP =ON. Save then turn DHCP = OFF.Now you scopes IP is fixed and whatever device is connected to the same subnet will be able to access it.QuoteNot sure as if your Mac WiFi is configured for your LAN and its LAN connection is also used to access your generic router there may be an IP conflict however some routers can be configured as a switch but then you lose DHCP.Maybe if the scopes LAN is configured like your other wireless devices but with the last 3 digits of its IP different to all other devices it will work.QuoteDo your homework here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/QuoteA WiFi connection may be simpler for you unless you can put your Mac Wifi connection in some sort of bridge mode so its LAN connection gets you on the same subnet that you configure the scopes LAN to.For a wireless connection you'll need the TP Link TL_WN725N USB dongle in gold version and in the US you should be able to find them for just a few bucks. The SW for these is already within the scope.Sing out on how you go as there are other older posts I can hunt out that will help you get it sorted.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 09:16:46 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 16, 2021, 08:05:44 amThis is very bad advice. The router will re-use the IP address again at some point and then you'll have a duplicate IP address in your network resulting in all kinds of weird behaviour. Very hard to diagnose.There are two good methods which both require to leave DHCP enable on the scope:1) Check the IP address on the scope and use the address the scope has at that moment2) Setup a fixed IP address in the routerThe last option is to limit the DHCP range on the router so you have some IP addresses you can assign manually but you'll also need to keep track of them. Setting up fixed IP addresses in the router which get handed out based on the MAC address is much easier because the management of the network is administered in one place.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 09:34:44 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 16, 2021, 09:16:46 am"Very bad advice" is a bit strong for the kind of help being provided to that specific user. Nonetheless, many DHCP servers nowadays have 'IP address conflict detection' which allow them to overcome these situations.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 10:03:05 am
content: It will depend on lease time on DHCP server. And tv84 is right many DHCP implementations have IP conflict resolution protocols.But safest thing would be to do some IP address organization.1. range of addresses with fixed IP ( for servers, routers, printers and any device that would benefit from fixed IP. Those you need to track of manually)2. range of addresses for DHCP pool with fixed (permanent) leases. Those are to be used with devices that you don't want to manage on device side, but once setup on server side, device will get same address every time, despite being setup for DHCP. Benefits are numerous: device needs no setup, and will work on any network with DHCP server, but on your network will get fixed IP every time. Also, form accounting standpoint, you have a nice list of devices and IP mappings inside your DHCP server. This is recommended for your internal network, and devices that might travel.3. Range of addresses for volatile DHCP IP pool, for all those devices that you don't really care what IP they get.In C class I usually reserve 1-100 for fixed pool, 100-200 for permanent DHCP leases, and from 200-240 for free DHCP pool. That gives you plenty of space. I place routers and network equipment low, from 1-10 usually.I can highly recommend Mikrotik routers for this type of SOHO networks. Fast, cheap, powerful features, and easy GUI setup for 90% of all that is needed.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 10:03:14 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on February 16, 2021, 09:34:44 amYes for the uninitiated network administrator sometime the KISS principle is preferable for its simplicity although it may not be optimal.In a small home network with a constant # of IP leases assigning an instruments IP and fixing it has the advantage that it can be bookmarked in a browser for simple reenabling otherwise we must continually go to the instrument to check what IP has been assigned to it before each connection.One must also consider accessibility to ones modem which are often locked/password protected by the ISP that provides it with a contract so fixing an IP in ones router is not always possible.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 11:03:15 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on February 16, 2021, 09:34:44 amBut that doesn't help if you switch the scope on AFTER the router has given the IP address to a different device. Which is likely to happen because scopes tend to be switched on/off before/after use. Because the IP on the scope is fixed, it won't check for conflicts.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 07:54:57 pm
content: This tune is called "Nothing's Ever Simple" from the movie "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished" starring Claude Rains as Senator Murphy.Thanks for fighting this out in my absence.Will get back to you soon.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 12:19:01 am
content: today i needed to see two unrelated signals, i thought i could see them both at once on the rigol oscilloscope but found out it doesn't have alt trigger so it will only lock on one of the signals and the other will wildly squiggle around the screen uncontrollably!. maybe the siglent does have alt mode and maybe that will be useful to you?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 01:24:53 am
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on February 17, 2021, 12:19:01 amNope! ALT trigger is almost unheard of on DSOs nowadays. I'm not sure why...

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 01:35:42 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 17, 2021, 01:24:53 amoooh, interesting. Just out of curiousity, would you happen to know of any that does have it? i went to read the digital oscilloscope chart but it doesn't list trigger types. Thank you!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 01:47:02 am
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on February 17, 2021, 01:35:42 amTypically old ones. The Rigol DS1052E actually has it listed, I've never had one--but you can buy that new. Tek 22XX series hybrid DSOs have that, and if you have a dual timebase model like the 2232, you can even have alternate triggering with differing sweep rates using the B-sweep.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 02:07:03 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 17, 2021, 01:47:02 amThank you! just found this topic, they list more DSOs that support it there, if anyone else was also wonderinghttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/out-of-curiosity-are-there-dsos-with-alternate-trigger/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 02:12:26 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 17, 2021, 01:24:53 amBecause a Logic trigger serves the same function.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 02:59:05 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 17, 2021, 02:12:26 amOK, I've never tried that (never had the need) but can you show Anthocyanina and me how that works and how it is equivalent?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 03:00:27 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 17, 2021, 01:47:02 amAll good analog scopes have. Some professional better ones have even true dual beam dual independent delayed time bases and dual independent triggers.In old Rigol DS1000E is some kind of ALT yes.But if take old Siglent SDS1000CML.. Well... it havedual independent timebaseALT mode with dual independent trigger... modern ones do not have at all. It is sad.Yes 4 channel ALT with 4 independent timebase and 4 independent trigger engines... no need but even dual channel......all copycat each others and because this lack of true ALT have started circulate it continue until some one break this mimicry. Designers first question is... how others have done... because they are like ducks with total lack of knowledge and enough wide range experience about test instruments but write code somehow. You know group of ducks - one turn head all turn head... Conrad Lorenz.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 03:14:57 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 17, 2021, 02:12:26 amSorry but not. Only in some very limited cases.Usually we can not adjust signals under test to match scopes, scope need adjust for match signals. Of course if you find just this signal combination what match to scope it looks like it works.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 04:35:35 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 17, 2021, 02:12:26 amHi! could you please explain what that is? i've googled it and couldn't find anything related to what alt trigger does. Thank you!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 05:46:06 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on February 17, 2021, 03:00:27 amIt is sad when they drop features that could be useful and there's no technical reason for their omission. In a full digital trigger system, an alternating simple trigger would not require any hardware. I see the SDS1102CML+ that is still available also has a data recording mode that allows you to record up to 7M points like a data logger, and apparently more to a USB stick. This is 5X the SDS1104X-E in roll mode and that requires you to smush it all on to one screen and expand it later. Definitely going backwards with those two features. Then there's ETS....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 09:08:29 am
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on February 17, 2021, 01:35:42 amGW Instek has this feature on their DSOs.And no, logic triggering isn't the solution. Not by a long shot.

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 06:28:50 am
content: Or you can buy a 2nd scope and have 2 triggers. One way around it. Get a cheap scope if you don't need all the bells and whistles.Back to the thread: The Siggy was able to talk to my Comcast wifi with a wire and I was able to access it but only from 1 of my 2 Macs on the LAN. Don't know why but I got a "refused to connect" msg in the browser from the scope to one of them. The other worked. Also got the dongle to work up close to the router but it's anemic.SO I hacked that SOB! 200mhz, AWG, MSO, WIFI. I think that's my first ever hack. @rf-loop: Thanks for the instructions.As for the recommended wifi dongle, it's too weak to reach my router from my shop in the basement. I'm going to try one with a whip antenna. We'll see.When I turn DHCP on it can't get an IP address so it goes off.I think it was recommended to get a SAG1021i however it only goes to 25mhz. If I want to feed a FM tuner rf would I have to use the 4th harmonic which would put it in the middle of the dial? Or is there a hack for that, too? Other than making nice clean square waves and medium distortion sinewaves for frequency response tests I don't know what else I would use it for. None of the AWGs make a super clean sinewave with THD below below .1%. I can download sine waves and play them through a relatively good audio interface for that.Or should I get a stand alone AWG. Does it matter that the scope commands the AWG for sweep or vice versa? There are 60 mhz Koolertron on Amazon that goes to 60mhz for $120.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 07:57:33 am
content: Quote from: Sparky Faraday on February 18, 2021, 06:28:50 amThe scope takes charge of the AWG when doing FRA/Bode plot via LAN or USB connection so with other than Siglent AWG's there are compatibility issues however it can be done:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/

author: Sparky Faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 03:00:30 am
content: Thanks to everyone for your help.