Start-up on a budget - Recommendations for equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:42:23 pm
content: Greetings EEV Professionals (and others, like myself lol)Coming from a mechanical engineering background and running my own manufacturing processes for a product line of aftermarket parts (automotive and two-wheels/mosport). I've recently taken onto the challenge of bringing EE in-house and have since purchased hardware & software which I believe is a bare minimum for what I'm trying to achieve.I'd like to ask you guys what would be considered essential equipment for a SME doing R&D (starting-up to anyway). I'm rather concerned about eventual 'certification requirements' and wondering what sort of equipment will be needed in that testing field.As the title goes, I have little less than $5k left to acquire what I'm hoping to be "useful" testing equipment, hence the thread/question!So far I've purchased: Mutimeters(2), 100Mhz bandwidth 4CH scope, LCR Meter, 4CH Precision Power Supply, Seat of Altium Designer and a whole lot of passive components, comon ICs and other breadboard/prototyping hardware.What else do I need other than luck?Thanks for all your recommendations and reasoning behind in advance, I'd sincerely appreciate a hand here

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:45:18 pm
content: Thermal camera. I have a Flir C2 and it is excellent at tracking down components which get too hot.I'd say the components are a complete waste of money. Just buy components when they are needed. If you bought components from Ebay/Aliexpress then throw them in the bin right away.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:10:00 pm
content: Oops not a good start :/ Actually you aren't the first who tells me this, in fact the reason I have it all sealed in dbl thick-wall zipper bags along with a dedicated silica gel bag in each of them. The whole lot is also away from natural light (total darkness, 21dC storage). Nothing on shelf or in direct contact with air, light or anything.Would that storage method work 'half-reliably' for at least a good 24-36 months shelf life? ps. I haven;t bought those off eBay or Alipress however I'm pretty sure those were manufactured in the same country anyway. No name given but ordered from the top 3 you guys all order from normally (mous...er.com).Brilliant idea on the FLIR scope btw. Why I didn't thought of that... glad I've asked. Thanks for that one I'll get the same one as yours in that caseQuote from: nctnico on April 19, 2020, 07:45:18 pm

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:21:14 pm
content: Buy the tools and equipment you need for a specific project as and when, or IF and when, you need them.The gear you need can and should be dictated by the projects you're working on. You'll soon know when you have a business need for a <thing>, and then you can more than likely order it from stock for next day delivery.The only tools I've bought "just in case" have been used 'bargains' that happened to come up for sale and seemed like an opportunity too good to miss. I sold one of them a few weeks ago, never used. The other is still on my shelf, also unused but probably not worth selling.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:33:59 pm
content: Far enough and makes perfect sense. So far got a logic analyser and a flir scope in the shopping bag. Anything else you guys can think of that you've used "literally each and every-time" during a project or before cert please let me know and I'll see if I can drag it in the shop too.Its one of those thing with testing equipment; so worried of not being able to set them up correctly or use them at their full potential when needed. Ought it would be a good idea to get it in-house, at least the essential stuff, so to get familiar and up to speed with them. Given their aren't costing 5k each then I think I can work it out slowly.Thanks for all your excellent advice guys, much appreciated already (cool forum!!!)Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 19, 2020, 08:21:14 pm

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 08:54:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mecanix on April 19, 2020, 08:33:59 pmOne really good pair of tweezers, with tips that are of a shape that can grip a small SMT part reliably and without it rotating.Immediately fire anyone who damages them.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:01:19 pm
content: lolDone deal and absolutely, they'll be shown the door if they bend anything! Just had a inspection microscope placed-in the shopping bag too. Not sure if this thread/question was a good idea... might have to ramp up that skinny budget from 5k up to 500k :/ nasty $tuff this EEvAnyway. Anything else I've missed shout guys. Need to get this off the 'to do' list and get back to work. Hate pro-active shopping lolthx @all!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 19, 2020, 08:21:14 pmAgreed. I do the same. It doesn't make sense to buy equipment beyond a basic PSU, oscilloscope, DMM. Altough I'm missing a function generator on the list.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:18:59 pm
content: Soldering station?

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:24:02 pm
content: The inspection scope is a good add, will come up a lot with any small parts work or troubleshooting/rework, but I agree that you should probably add as the task/user demands rather than try to equip upfront. There are a lot of directions things can go in, so there's a lot of potential things to get (many of which will be entirely irrelevant to certain tasks), and if you trust your EE, they'll probably have a preference of tools or approach to problems which could inform that. I'd agree that some sort of AWG and a thermal camera are standard and very useful.Potential additional things:Soldering ironHot air station (SMD work or rework)Desoldering gun/station (if rework of through hole parts is common)High voltage oscilloscope probe (if you're dealing with high voltage parts)Good quality basic hand tools - needle nose pliers, wire strippers, flush cutters, screw drivers, calipers, etc.Basic antistatic equipment (mat, strap, grounding point)Basic test leads (the new equipment likely covers a lot of this, but something like BNC cables, banana plug cables, cables with hooks or clips on the end, etc.)Basic consumables - solder, solder paste, tacky + liquid flux, isopropyl alcohol, stranded and solid hookup wire, desoldering braidBut again, while some of those could be good to get initially, it's probably good to ask your employee for some input as well as to what specific brands, parts, and things they'd actually use. Not everyone works or reworks the same, and it could be they have some experience that will help pick better tools for their workflow.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 09:38:48 pm
content: Oh thanks, great add-ons... that's not just essential but more mandatory stuff you listed there DaJMasta, and of which half is missing in the shop so thanks for putting this up! Some excellent points.Got the consumable in-house already, or so I think/hope anyway. Could certainly do with much better rework and soldering stations though, the ones I have here are possibly excellent for 'hobby' however may/may not have a genuine ESD sticker on (if you know what I mean). I'll get the proper kits in the shopping list while at it, always wanted that Haiko Blue & Yellow ;-) Good call.Apart from that essential if there is anything of concern (that could bankrupt our small company if unplanned for) in terms of pre-certification testing tool(s) or others, please let me know guys.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 10:48:25 pm
content: At some point a universal programmer, something like the Chinese TL866II Plus with adapters, careful to buy it from a legitimate reseller. Otherwise they will send a counterfeit/clone of the old model.For soldering stations the Pace ADS200 (120W tip cartridge) or the Hakko FX888D (65W tip over heater) is what you should be looking at first, if buying from tequipment.net we get a 6% discount on all gear there. Get a few different chisels and a bevel tip for drag soldering.If you brought something like a 4 channel Rigol DS1054Z please place the logic analyzer down the list. Along with the desoldering station, desoldering tweezers. You can live without them until you know you need them.If you have a first working prototype and are getting serious that is when you need the IR camera and if doing your own assembly to produce a small run you may need a reflow oven but don't buy stuff you don't need too early. Hot air for smd soldering is handy though for smd soldering.If you are a beginner get all your soldering stuff together and start slamming a few kits together for experience, this is what really needs to happen next. Then learn how to take measurements with your multimeter and oscilloscope and get a microcontroller programmed.I suggest getting something like a Chinese ESR tester kit, assemble it. Then prototype or layout your own PCB based on that design and get a board made. Spec out and order your parts by looking up datasheets properly from a supplier. Then assemble and program it with official firmware and test the completed board. This advice is the fastest way you will ever learn to make something yourself. Don't forget about it!

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 01:43:31 am
content: I'm not really familiar with automotive kinds of certifications, but I imagine that's a whole rabbit hole involving environmental chambers, shake tables, and electrical noise injection setups...On the FCC side, though, there's always EMI testing. Basic precompliance testing can be done with a spectrum analyzer and a set of probes, but that could easily be half your total budget on the cheap end, so I'd probably avoid buying anything until you're reasonable far along in your design process. Of course, if your stuff is actually wireless/radio related, it's probably an essential right off the bat, but you can likely make perfectly functional products without, then when you're contemplating a 5 figure or more EMC compliance certification as required for whatever region, maybe then investing a few thousand to do your own precompliance work makes sense.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2020, 06:23:04 am
content: Thanks to all for contributing great ideas, I've received the flir scope and other bits mentioned earlier. For those of you who are curious as to what the financial bomb was, well it is a seat of Mentor Graphics Hyperlynx. Quoted; "electrical design rule checking (DRC/ERC), signal integrity (SI), power integrity (PI) with integrated 2D/2.5D/3D electromagnetic modeling (3D EM)".We'll bring in the later in-house and see if we can set-up this tool to our advantage, hopefully engineering better/compliant designs and cutting down on the hardware requirements down stream.Closing this with a thank you @all note! Let all hell break lose, I'm back to making smoke folks