Sorin’s YouTube channel is under threat from YT’s algorithms ! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 10:50:09 am
content: For those who follow Sorin and his electronics repair channels on YouTube, you will be aware of the situation that has recently developed regarding his loss of income from those channels. YouTube has shadow banned Sorin’s main and backup channels, claiming that there are anomalies in his viewer traffic figures. It turns out that this problem is widespread across many technical and repair channels at the moment. Sadly Sorin has found YouTube to be disinterested in looking into the matter further and resolving it. As Sorin has stated, compared to some other content producers, he is small potatoes. Imagine if one of the really ‘big’ content creators like Lois Rossmann got the same shadow banning and treatment !I was sad to see this turn of events as I do enjoy watching Sorin working on various electronics faults. I used to watch Alex on the NorthridgeFIX YT channel, but there are only so many times that I want to see a connector, MOSFET or capacitor being replaced !I now prefer to get my electronics repair ‘hit’ from Sorin’s channels. He has a good understanding of how the electronics actually work and so can delve deeper into more complex repairs. I like thatSome of his repairs do negatively trigger the perfectionist in me but, as he says, he repairs kit for a decent cost.Sorin has posted some interesting videos on the YouTube problem that appears to be becoming widespread, but worryingly also appears to ‘target’ learning channels ! Where will this end I wonder?Links to Sorin’s videos on this matter………https://youtu.be/JgP7mxj64ro?si=z8f0RCfImLTwa6Rqhttps://youtu.be/h2hI7LEG0ak?si=Af7ltJO62J7hi6bFhttps://youtu.be/0z8_e3auqyU?si=9XW5mimtZg2kp-op

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 10:59:59 am
content: I have been asked many times if I will create a YouTube channel dedicated to the discussion of Thermal Imaging cameras, their design and repair. I was beginning to come around to that idea but it was going to take time and money so needed some thought. In light of Sorin’s recent experience I have now completely shelved that idea.A friend of our family has a son who created a channel on some platform that provides hints and tips for playing the Fortune video game. Last year he earned £90K from that channel. I have absolutely zero chance of earning anything like that sort of money from a specialist technical YouTube channel dedicated to thermal imaging. Girls go on YouTube Shorts, TikTok or, in extreme cases, Only Fans….wear skimpy kit, flash some booty and get 10 Million views in no time at all….. we live in a very messed up WorldFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 11:52:10 am
content: The “Learn Electronics Repair” channel has also suffered the dreaded “Invalid a traffic” YouTube treatment and lost its incomehttps://youtu.be/w88SvGfB3tU?si=tn5rHqTOdrVTgIRh

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 12:18:08 pm
content: A list of known channels that are suffering the same “Invalid Traffic” glitch and have lost their income……. 174 at time of posting.https://pnuk.com/itFraser

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 01:24:21 pm
content: Those who have Youtube Premium should discontinue it and give directly to the creators instead. Cut out the dishonest middleman.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 01:43:48 pm
content: I hope Google get a serious beating in the antitrust case.He's gone out of control!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 02:36:18 pm
content: Sounds like YT's AI (Artficial Incompetence) went berserk. Wait until someone with YT contacts reports the 'invalid traffic' issue.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 02:42:16 pm
content: Sadly, channels come and go and the algo kills channels left and right. I have a suspicion it manipulated to show different type of content seasonally and they just tweak it based on the content seasonally. My (not electronics related) channel died as well. How? You can have thousands of subscribers, yet you only get a hundred impressions. The people who subscribed, they are never shown the video thumbnail at all.It's part of the manipulation of the masses scheme that google is running. General entertainment channels are less likely to have problems, but if you do anything remotely interesting, you are prone to this. And it's not a bug, they for sure do this intentionally.He does repair, the "Right to repair bill" is a hot topic, google moves the needle, channel gets zero traction.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 02:58:14 pm
content: YT makes money with the content others create. So it should be in YT's interest to fix such stupid things. As long as issues stay below the automation radar nobody at YT will notice and investigate.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 03:42:26 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/invalid-traffic-affecting-electronics-channels-on-youtubeQuote from: NiHaoMike on September 27, 2023, 01:24:21 pmYT Premium actually pays the creators too, more than watching ads based on comments I've heard from creators. I think Dave even mentioned this.I follow far too many creators and am already paying some channel memberships (Sorin's is one I've been paying for awhile) and Patreons as it is. I can't pay them all individually, so I do my part through YT Premium. Of course if all my favorite channels die, then I'll have to drop Premium and YT altogether. I'm hoping they rethink this thing. It's certainly getting a lot of negative attention right now.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 04:53:16 pm
content: YT is gradually turning into atwitterX style dumpster fire. Bullshit like this reminds me to go check if any more of the channels I watch regularly have moved to Odysee yet.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 04:58:37 pm
content: I hope Odysee is a success so that we gain competitive choice in the marketplace

author: YurkshireLad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 05:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on September 27, 2023, 04:58:37 pmI'm trying to watch more content on Odysee, but there's not a huge amount of interest at the moment. The site can also be very slow to load and populate the initial page, I'm talking 5-10s. I'd rather use a site that lets me find creators and videos to watch, than force channels and videos down my throat.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 05:13:08 pm
content: Only 140 channels from thousands, and none are top ones, suggest they might have tried some trick to self-promoting.Perhabs they suddenly got 10M visits from certain India click farm... you know.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 06:08:39 pm
content: If you watch the videos you will see Sorin shows his viewing figures and there is no such massive increase in views. I chose to be charitable in my assessment of this situation.

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 07:38:57 pm
content: It seems to me that relying on a service you get for free to make money is always going to be a risky business model.The companies providing these services serve their shareholders and investors. Users of the service, whether consumers who are fed advertisements, or producers who give these companies their value, are only going to be supported as necessary to serve the company's primary interests.And the model that most of these companies, at least in the last few years, have followed is to lose money (living on investor funding) while building a user base. During this time their terms are very appealing. But at some point they have to make money (or die or be acquired) and then things get much less appealing for the users. We've seen this over and over.Maybe you can make great money for a while and hats off if you do. But I don't think anyone should expect that to last. Seems to me it comes from the very nature of the business model - very different model than one where you pay money for a contracted set of services.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 08:04:26 pm
content: Globoy ,An excellent analysis of the situationI have never wanted to be a content producer on YouTube, but I have been asked many times to create a Thermal Imaging channel to benefit those interested in the topic. Whilst that is a nice idea, it takes a lot of time and effort to create the content and if there is no financial benefit for me, that is a step too far in terms of using my time. I am all for sharing knowledge, as I do here, but I do so only when I have the spare time and answering questions can be done quite quickly in many cases. Videography and editing are a completely different ball game.As an aside, I contacted several thermal imaging camera manufacturers and offered to produce high quality technical reviews of their products at no cost to them. All of them wanted to know the details of my YouTube channel and immediately lost interest when I said that I produce written reviews for the EEVBlog forum. In order to obtain demo units for review, I would need to create a YouTube channelAs has been said, it is not a good idea to totally rely upon a finance stream that is provided by a free platform that can end that finance source at any time, without any recourse for the content producer.

author: globoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 08:17:01 pm
content: I've created a few youtube videos over the years and although they certainly aren't polished they were a lot of work and took a lot of time. I did it mostly for self-promotion - with little, lol, to show for that probably. Like you and lots of other people I have looked at people making a lot of money and wondered, "should I???". But for me anyway, who would much rather be working on a project than spending hours and hours promoting it and myself, it never made sense. I do the infrequent videos because I feel the world has moved away from the written word (which I much prefer because I can easily control the rate I take it in and how quickly I go through it) to video. Young people especially. But I'm kinda an old curmudgeon about the whole thing.I think if you ever did any videos they should be simply because you're willing to spend the time to share your love of thermal imaging. A passion project. Perhaps the good thing for you is that I think your audience wouldn't be so put off by a non-super polished video. They'd mostly be in it for the technical knowledge you'd be sharing. I bet you'd get a lot of thumbs up.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2023, 09:35:05 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/invalid-traffic-affecting-electronics-channels-on-youtube/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 10:41:57 am
content: Interesting video from another content creator. He even suggests a possible cause. Could watching your own videos for QA purposes trigger the YouTube algorithm that detects invalid traffic ? According to him, YouTube confirmed that there is definitely invalid traffic on his channel but do not identify its source. It is also noted that some YouTuber found out that opening multiple browser windows on the same video created multiple advert streams and so recorded views…. They asked their viewers to do this in order to ‘go viral’ and that may have triggered YouTube to respond in a draconian manner.https://youtu.be/0kYvkB8W_xY?si=lyXVs2A3zrvvc4cRFraser

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 01:42:42 pm
content: Watching your own videos won't generate thousands of views...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 03:56:19 pm
content: I think people are just struggling to come up with an explanation as to what triggered the invalid traffic detector at YouTube. I do not think it is the number of views changing dramatically as Sorin showed the statistics and there was no such significant spike in views on the YouTube plots. YouTube suggested that he not ask friends and family to view his videos as that could cause the issue ! What the heck ? I think the suggestion about not watching your own videos once uploaded may be just an idea that YouTube considers watching your own videos wrong as it increases your view count when you have a vested interest in that view count producing payment. It sounds crazy though and I would have thought many more people would have been affected as surely many content producers carry out QC checking of their videos after upload.It remains a mystery and YouTube appear to be taking the view that their AI driven fraud detection system is perfect and cannot make mistakes. Such blind confidence may well be misplaced !

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 04:50:26 pm
content: I don't even have a channel I just make comments on videos, and I got a weird message from YouTube about breaking community guidelines. No mention of which comment or which guideline. The feedback system that youtube offers just pops up a text box and a "send" button that doesn't do anything.Wonderful.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 08:33:29 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on September 28, 2023, 01:42:42 pmJust watching your own videos *shouldn't* trigger invalid traffic, but clicking on ads in your own videos definitely does, and is one of the criteria specifically called out and what their system looks for. At this point though, it's clear the system is broken and innocent creators are getting punished, so I don't trust the reasons YT cites are the only reasons they're doing it. They either doing it intentionally, or they have some serious bugs in their bots that they refuse to acknowledge publicly.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 08:37:44 pm
content: Translated:"It isn't taking OUR money out, we give zero f** for your's, so it's just fine".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2023, 10:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 28, 2023, 04:50:26 pmNever had that, but had a number of comments automatically censored (obvious when they disappear just a few s after posting).One thing that many are aware of now, but just saying just in case, do no put links inside YT comments. Your comment will get removed automatically. YT doesn't tolerate any link whatsoever apparently.This is unfortunate when you want to prove or illustrate a point with a source. For doing so, just cite the reference but do not make it a clickable link.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2023, 01:14:27 am
content: It is a sad state of affairs when to become quickly popular on youtube it seems you need xx chromosomes, and clothing designed to show off your assets.While the chromosome issue would be a problem maybe Dave would do better with some artificial enhancements and a low cut shirt.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 11:32:34 am
content: It appears that Sorin has discovered the source of his Invalid Traffic and found a way to re-establish his income stream……https://youtu.be/okfSCAJqX6E?si=rqrFhG7f4G4UJ6wgFor those not wanting to watch his video, it is viewers using Ad blockers that he says causes the Invalid Traffic event. He created a long video and asked viewers to switch off their ad blockers. The video saw a huge increase in financial performance and no Invalid traffic warning.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 12:21:34 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 28, 2023, 10:08:00 pmAlmost. There is exactly one kind of link they tolerate: links to YouTube itself. So linking to another video, playlist, or channel won’t get deleted. Anything else is gone within seconds.Similarly, using too many numerals (!) will get them deleted, as will various words (many completely innocuous) on secret blacklists.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 12:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on October 13, 2023, 11:32:34 amYeah I watched this yesterday. It aligns with what many suspected. Advertisers have been beating up Google lately because they're paying for ads that aren't being seen due to ad blockers. YT has made it known recently that they were going after ad blockers, so the timing was certainly suspect when all this invalid traffic stuff started. But why couldn't YT just tell their creators this instead of silently punishing them for their users' behavior? Why treat some creators more harshly than others? Why imply or in some cases directly suggest that the creators are generating invalid traffic through nefarious means (watching their own ads, recruiting people to watch their ads on a loop, etc.) instead of just saying up front that it's due to ad blockers?Look, I understand that nothing is free. I can't imagine the costs of running YT's infrastructure, so they need a revenue stream, which is primarily from ads. Ad blockers hurt that stream. So I can't blame them for going after ad blockers. But don't punish the creators for something they have zero control over. The way YT has botched their handling of this is abysmal.As I've said before, I don't mind unobtrusive ads, like banners on a page. I don't mind sponsorship shoutouts within a video. I *HATE* ads that disrupt my experience, such as popups, redirects, or unskippable ads that interrupt a video. Because I consume so much YT, I'm a Premium subscriber. Considering the value I get from YT, it's a pittance to pay and I get the satisfaction of no ads AND the creators get paid from my subscription. It's a win-win for me and the creators as well. But I recognize that for some it's an expense that's hard to justify. I wonder if YT would offer a cheaper version of Premium, say $5/month, with only the ad skipping and not the other features like offline play and YT Music, it would go a long way towards resolving this issue.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 12:51:26 pm
content: I wouldn't mind having to pay Youtube to have my channel online. I wouldn't mind paying a small base fee and then a fee based on views.I wouldn't mind having to see banners or, as mentioned by Veteran68, other unobstrusive ads.Hell, I would even be ok to receive a weekly newsletter from Google with custom made ads and commercial offers based on my profile (collected by their services like Google, Gmail, Youtube, etc.) if the suggestions would be reasonable and used some real AI.But having to watch a 20 minute video that is interrupted 3 times with a 2 minute unskippable ad that has a much louder volume is totally unacceptable and even if I wouldn't be using an ad blocker, such an ad would have ZERO chance to convince me to purchase the promoted product or service. Quite the contrary: said product or service would be blacklisted by me.And no, I cannot afford a Youtube Premium subscription. I live in one of Europe's poorest country, the minimum wage is currently 720 Euro, VAT is 23% and I already pay for the internet access. I don't see value in this subscription, that costs the same as Netflix: with Netflix I get no ads and pay for the production of series and movies made by Netflix. Also, I pay for Netflix to settle the licensing of series and movies made by others. And of course, I pay for the platform (servers, traffic, etc.).Youtube, on the other hand doesn't produce anything. They only provide the infrastructure.Also, I dislike the fact that Youtube has a political agenda and as a result filters the content and/or removes monetization of channels they don't like. In Portugal this happend to important channels of right wing political commentators. Sadly, the same does not seem to happen to extreme left wind party commentators. So much for freedom of speech.Hopefully, Youtube's popularity will decline and new offers will appear.I remember the time when web searches were done with Altasvista until some new cool search engine showed up, called Google. It is time for a replacement...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 12:55:05 pm
content: Quote from: Veteran68 on October 13, 2023, 12:37:43 pmWith as much YT as I watch, Premium would definitely be worth it. Yet at this point, I refuse to do it because it simply feels like a shakedown: paying for Premium feels like paying a bully to stop beating you up. If Google behaved like an upstanding citizen I’d be much more inclined to give them money. But their obnoxious behavior and complete lack of accountability toanyoneis, IMHO, not deserving of monetary reward. So instead I spend the money on merch from my favorite channels.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2023, 05:02:55 pm
content: Louis Rossmann produced a video in which he discussed the YouTube business model. He stated that, in his opinion, it is a disastrous business model that no one will wish to repeat as it simply does not make serious money for the business. The income is from advertisers who are a very fickle lot and if they think their adverts are not being watched, or effective enough, they will just walk away. YouTube must cost an absolute fortune to operate so it is little surprise that they are trying to keep their advertisers happy. Louis thinks YouTubes days in its current format are numbered but I know nothing about that. As has been said, it seems wrong to punish content creators for the actions of their viewers, especially if they are not told why they are being punished. Sorin has asked his viewers to turn off their add blockers when watching his content and it seems to have worked as his loyal fan base wish him to get as much income from his efforts as possible. He is a nice guy after all !In case of interest, the link to the Louis Rossmann video, though I must admit that I no longer watch his channels (a link to this video popped up when looking for Sorin videos !)https://youtu.be/DMaFH4KzOVg?si=yBE87Hz-I983I0SD

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 05:52:47 am
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on October 14, 2023, 02:00:23 amYes, but that's been the whole online business model. That's how it worked. There would never have been any Google or any of the other big ones without this freebie model. They grew this big thanks to this freaking model. They can't get out of it this easily without making a LOT of people angry. I mean, really a lot.

author: gabiz_ro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 06:46:07 am
content: I'm not sure Sorin explanation is 100% true based on that video.Asking viewers to disable adblock but nobody knows what percentage of them comply to his request.Implying a long video ,maybe 4-5 times longer than usual, if ads are included at time period result is more ads that will result in increase of money gain so that spike on his graphic should be cut in 1/4 at least.Talking about content, failure on repairs, may attract and determine viewers to watch entire clip.I remember reading on comments, other creator Learn Electronic Repairs asking something similar but don't remember to see if he get an answer.Maybe my memory tricks me but Sorin said some time ago that doesn't want donation on YT and his channel is for learning others not for monetization.And yes, punishing them for something that is out of their control is not fair.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 06:58:34 am
content: Quote from: gabiz_ro on October 14, 2023, 06:46:07 amNot only that, but he is also basing his theory on one little spike in a very noisy curve. I would like to see more data before jumping to such a conclusion.Also, how would this approach make sense from Youtube's perspective? Putting pressure on users (to disable their adblockers) by punishing the creators does not make much sense in the first place, since Youtube can nag or block the offending users directly. But let's assume that they want to take this approach: How is this scheme supposed to work, i.e. affect user behaviour, if they keep it a secret?!I am not ready to buy into Sorin's theory at this point.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 09:05:34 am
content: I've moved as much of my viewing as possible away from YT to Odysee because of this.The adblock argument is mostly bullshit; most views are on mobile these days which is harder to adblock so most people don't bother. As Bicurico pointed out, interrupting a vid with an unskippable ad with super-compressed sound is more likely to turn someone off from a product than on to it.Some people use YT Premium, and some allow the ads, there should be space for people that want neither; limit the video resolution or framerate for them, perhaps.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2023, 10:06:42 am
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on October 14, 2023, 02:00:23 amThat's not what I meant.What I mean is that I refuse to willingly hand over cash to a company that operates like a thug: it doesn't listen to viewers (which, in the case of Premium, are customers), offering no meaningful customer service to them. It doesn't listen to content creators, offering no meaningful customer service to them if they're not among the top 100 or so. (Even channels big enough to have channel managers frequently encounter radio silence as soon as they have any real issue.) The way they handle copyright strikes is borderline criminal.I have no problem with charging for a service. It's that even if you pay, they're a scummy company that I do not want to give money to. And that the methods used to make you choose to pay feel like outright bullying.