Question remove battery smartphone - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 08:01:14 pm
content: To store a smartphone for a long period, is it mandatory to remove the battery?smartphones that use this type of battery is very difficult to remove without damaging for a person who has little experience in handling the smartphone internally?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 11:34:53 pm
content: Re:"...is it mandatory to remove the battery..."The way you worded the question made it difficult to answer. If I take "...is it mandatory to remove the battery..." literally, I would have to say there is no law or regulation I know of that mandates you to remove the battery. ButI think you mean "does it do harm not to remove it", the the answer would be it depends.LiIon battery will be damaged when it over discharges. A battery left on its own will self discharge. A battery typically have protection circuits. When off, that protection circuit may still take a little leak from the battery so a protected battery may self discharge a little quicker. When that battery is connected to the phone, the leakage may increase and the battery will self discharge a little quicker still. From what I have read, it would be equavlent to > 1 giga ohm, but leaking a pico-amp leak is still is still a leakage. So, the answer would be, well it depends, but likely the less the battery is connected to, the better off it is for the battery.How much and how long it takes for it to self-discharge to a point where it harms would depends on too many factors to have a definite answer. The longer the battery is at a high voltage (keeping fully charge) will also lessen the life of a battery. Charge to 80% is the typical answer for battery going into storage, and recharge before it reach 20%.Until someone can post some better stuff (love to see somelab test results), here is some personal experience to give you gauge on loss of battery capacity:(1) I had four 18650 LiIon (with protection circuit) that was charged full when I was about to out it to use, but went into storage by mistake - it was misplaced then went into storage when found. Three to four years later, only one went down below 4V to just under 3.8V, well above the 2.6V floor. Charge/discharge tests shown that the batteries' capacities were still above nominal capacity so absolutely no significant damage. I can't say if it will take another two to three years before it drops to 2.6V, but three to four years certainly didn't come even close to doing it.(2) I purchased a couple of new-old stock older and low-end model smart phones - probably two to three years old at time of purchase (market was selling Andriod 7, these were Andriod 5). They both power up and ran without problem with self test indicating battery is in "good condition". One was in use daily for about two years now as my "quick" internet browser and battery apparently was holding charge quite nicely. So, two to three years of storage with merely phone-off as the sole battery saver and no apparent issues.Re: "...difficult to remove without damaging for a person who has little experience..."Yeah, you have to do it very carefully. I've replaced the LCD on a smart phone, once for myself and once for my kid - different model but same manufacturer. The battery needs to be removed before I can get to the LCD. Getting the battery out is probably the hardest part with those models of phones. The tape-glue is awful to deal with and yeah, it sticks like glue. I was afraid the outer wrapping of the battery will tear as I pull hard to get it off the tape.If the video you linked to is not the same model as yours... It will serve you well to see if you can find a video of others doing battery replacement for a same model phone you have. Also, you have to be very organized to make sure you know how to put it back together.Use soft-tools. Very hard tools will scratch and can cause damage like cutting into the battery itself.I ran into a situation that I couldn't remove the battery because of hidden glue-tape between the battery and back frame. Had I use something like steel blade to ply it or cut it, I could have damaged the battery. I was well aware of that potential problem. So, I cut a piece of plastic from a 2 liter plastic soda bottle. The piece of plastic hasno sharp edgesof any sort - I even rounded the corners well. It was soft but hard enough to be use as a plastic knife to cut the tape in between the battery and the back frame.It is best to use tools that is just hard enough. It will minimize damage should you make a mistake.Lastly, a different suggestion:Leave the battery as is and just rely on phone-off,but check it regularly.- Find the app call "CPU-Z" that does phone diag. Use it to check the battery.- Take a screen print. Now store your phone with just power off and mark the calendar.- Check it every 6 months and monitor the progress. See what is the current battery health (good? fair? bad? whatever.) as well as the voltage. If the voltage is down to 3.0, time to give it a recharge.In a year, you can share that with us and we can all learn something as well.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 12:39:13 am
content: If I buy two smartphones the same one for daily use and the other one for stored backup, is this stored smartphone necessary to remove the battery because it could swell or explode damaging the device?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 04:13:47 am
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 02, 2020, 12:39:13 amI did not intend to buy two to put one into storage as backup. The intended use didn't work out. The technology get outdated so quickly that putting them in storage for use years later is a very iffy deal.How long did you intend to store the darn thing anyway? That factors into it. Storing it for a couple of years is very different than storing it for a couple of decades.I am no expert, I am just a hobbyist and not a very good one at that.But common sense would suggest if you are talking a couple of years and the battery doesn't have a manufacturing problem, when properly stored (cool, dry place), it should not swell or explode. Otherwise stores like Best Buy or even Walmart (and their warehouses) would be exploding all over the country.Yes, battery will degrade even if stored in perfect condition. Yes, if battery is removed, you reduced variables and thuslikelyreduced the problem. But for consumer items, you will have a hard time finding the data (on self discharge, temperature, etc.). So, it is a trade off with unknown benefit v risk. If you want it as near perfect as possible, take the trouble to remove the battery, you may sleep better. Just do it very carefully, or you will stay up late pissed off that you destroyed the darn thing by a slip of the screw driver.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 04:35:01 am
content: If the point of having a second phone is to have something to quickly switch to if the first one breaks down, take note that smartphones can be used as PDAs without the SIM card, for example as a dedicated remote control for a Chromecast or other smart gadget. For that purpose, it's helpful to get one of those one shot pushbutton timers to plug the charger into. Ideally, you want to keep the charge level between 40%-80% or so. While that can be done with a smart plug and some programming, the timer is a close enough approximation that's a lot easier to set up.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 05:48:07 am
content: Meanwhile, the battery you're ignoring will actually be the battery which will get you. I've seen far too many RTC battery leaking and causing irreversible damage while working on dumb phones, (I left phone repair way before the introduction of smartphone so I don't know if they still have those inside of them)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 06:28:45 am
content: Does the brand of that battery really say "Dodgee" (Dodgy)? Is this China's way of being truthful in advertising/labelling?Quote from: Raj on July 02, 2020, 05:48:07 amUsually not. Everything is stored in flash and most smartphones will reset their clocks until they can connect to a network again.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 01:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 02, 2020, 06:28:45 amDoogee, known for adding interesting features to their smartphones. I have to agree their logo design isn't the best but far from the worst.Quote from: Raj on July 02, 2020, 05:48:07 amThe separate RTC battery went away when the removable batteries went away.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 03:11:02 pm
content: do i refer to the x95 model if i buy two units one for use and the other stored will i have difficulty removing the battery without damaging it? battery with flat cable

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 08:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 02, 2020, 04:35:01 amHey, great minds think alike...I am using those smart phones as small PDA's and WiFi only. For phone, both me and my wife are using flip phones. My wife doesn't like having to dig out her reading glasses to see the tiny screens. So, the second one ended up sitting in storage doing nothing interesting - except used as an IP camera on a couple of occasions.I also use timers to keep my SLA charged for power out back-up lights, cheap mechanical timers (electrical motor turning a wheel which mechanically do the switching). SLA, like any other batteries, died anyway. After my SLA was drained following a power out, I forgot to put it back on charging for a long while. By the time I finally remembered, tests show my SLA was... well - not worth charging anymore.For lithium batteries in the smart phone, the cheap mechanical timers (24 hour cycle) is too frequent. I would not want to charge a lithium battery once a day.But, the cheap Walmart mechanical timers are around $5 - multiple periods with some has period at 15 minutes but cheaper ones are 30 minutes periods (48 mini buttons around the timing wheel).At merely $5 each, you can cascade them affordably.Say if you cascade 2 of them (put them in series), you can get very interesting recharge time table. In its simplest form, say both are 24 hours cycle and 30 minute per period timers, and both are set to be on at 1AM to 1:30AM. The first one (from the wall outlet) is on real-time, but the second one is not on real-time. The second one is only connected for once every day for 30 minutes, so the wheel advances only 30 minutes every 24 hours. So it hits only 1AM to 1:30AM only once every 48 days... All for just around $10, and no tools needed for assembly. (In truth, the wheels/motors are never in perfect sync, one timer may turn faster than the other so you do have to put that into consideration.)

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 08:54:48 pm
content: I have seen quite a few smartphones that was literally destroyed by bad batteries. Those pouch cells sometimes swell so much that will tear phone apart, break screen and back cover. That usually happens when left forgotten for a few months.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 10:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2020, 08:36:09 pmYou can get a 7 day digital timer for under $10. Or for even less (in quantity), an ESP8266 based smart plug.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 12:01:42 am
content: do i refer to the x95 model if i buy two units one for use and the other stored will i have difficulty removing the battery without damaging it? battery with flat cable

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 12:48:58 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 02, 2020, 10:32:27 pmInteresting, I didn't know they are now so affordable! Learned something new today!Thanks!

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 01:14:48 am
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 03, 2020, 12:01:42 amDon't put it in the drawer, keep it on your desk or somewhere you'll use it at least occasionally. Keep it between 40-80% charge using the timer trick. Use a standard "slow charger" to keep it from heating up too much. (I only use a fast charger for my tablets since it's still a fairly low charge rate for those.)

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 07:21:03 pm
content: I thought about extracting the battery from it, saving and charging only the battery but I would need a device to charge the flat battery externally

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2020, 09:27:06 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 03, 2020, 07:21:03 pmThat is one of the reasons why my last suggestion is there... Get an idea of how much it is needed first before deciding. And should you come to the conclusion that it is necessary (to remove the battery), most likely, youdon't even need to physically remove the battery, (That is: most likely, with the back cover or housing off, you have enough access to justunplug the battery from the phonewhile the battery is still glued to the phone.) -- By the way, leave the phone semi-disassembled.Whenever you need to recharge, re-plug the battery to the phone and you can recharge using the phone, then un-plug again. Don't forget to protect the exposed battery contacts to avoid shorting. You should first protect the battery electrical contacts with a small piece of plastic (cut a small piece from a plastic bag) to make a hood covering the electrical contacts first then tape over it so you do not leave tape-glue on the electrical contacts.Put the screws in a small zip lock bag (like the smallist 2"x2" ones) and tape it to the back of the phone cover or something, and keep the whole semi-disassembled phone (with screws and any removed parts) in a larger zip lock bag.EDIT: Above was reedited - it was poorly worded and hard to understand the first time around.Quote from: Rick Law on July 01, 2020, 11:34:53 pm

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 06:01:53 pm
content: Is it possible to keep a smartphone device stored in the long term, preventing the non-removable battery with flat cable from becoming swollen and leaking?

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 06:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: micksmelanie on July 05, 2020, 06:01:53 pmI think we are running around in circles here... Lets wrap this up. You should re-read all the replies by many of us thus far.

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 06:56:51 pm
content: I’ve seen devices that the battery has inflated or swollen and I wanted to avoid this by storing a smartphone in the box in the long term without the battery bulking and leaking or is that impossible?

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2020, 07:01:48 pm
content: Must not feed the troll

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2020, 02:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 05, 2020, 06:15:27 pmThat isn't a surprise; with micksmelanie there is history available, e.g.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/moisture-and-electronics/msg3117256/#msg3117256https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/question-hygrometer/msg3117688/#msg3117688

author: micksmelanie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 09:34:26 am
content: I do not care if the smartphone is out of date I will buy two units of the Doogee X95 smartphone and I am doubtful if the unit that will be kept in the box will have problems with the battery puffing up and leaking because if this happens it will destroy the electronics a another unit i will use constantly but i have a backup phone

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 09:54:40 am
content: A decent rechargeable battery should never just spontaneously puff up or leak. I have 15+ year old Lithium Polymer/Ion packs which still work (albeit at significantly reduced capacity).