Most Bizarre job contract clauses I have ever seen - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pm
content: I've recently came across a company and they offered me a job.Let me share with you some of their insane conditions."If you talk badly or swear to your employer, employers relatives or loved ones, you'll be fired with no compensation""You are not allowed to go bathroom in working hours.""If one of your project cause to lose companies money, you'll compensate that loss"

author: Mr. Coffee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:16:01 pm
content: I'd write a counter contract:1. The company is not allowed for me to feel like I have to go to the bathroom during working hours. If I feel like I have to go to the bathroom, it is the companies fault, and I, the employee, will be compensated.Any profit I make the company on any of my projects is mine. If anything I do wrong costs me money, then anything I do rightmakesme money as if it were my own business.What is this, a 19th century sweat shop?

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:33:52 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pmwhat country are you in icarus?contracts can say many things, not all of which can be legally enforced!

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:36:28 pm
content: I think it would be a very great service if you disclose the company in question so we can all avoid it.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:37:01 pm
content: These sound more like conditions for primary school.Agreed with Dexter. Some companies demand some crazy things, also in like service contracts with normal consumers, where the law describes something else and therefore the contract/statement is not pleadable.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 12:41:38 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pmHey, at least they used the wordtorather thanabout- youcancall them a bunch of insecure toads, just not to their faces

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:15:28 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pmunless the "working hours" are very short, I just can't see anyone agreeing with that...

author: JefferyB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pmI'm going to say that this isn't legal, they would have a very hard time enforcing this on anyone, and I'm sure it wouldn't hold up in any court of law.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:46:23 pm
content: ... and the company dress code is what? A straightjacket?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 01:50:20 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on February 04, 2014, 01:46:23 pmSounds like that's what the management wears

author: Mr. Coffee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 02:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on February 04, 2014, 01:50:20 pm+1Can you say, promoted out of various positions due to incompetence until, eventually, reaching the top management positions?

author: leppie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 02:58:59 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on February 04, 2014, 12:04:04 pmDo you mind if if I put my catheter on my desk?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 03:06:28 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Coffee on February 04, 2014, 02:26:13 pmClassic example of the peter principle. Also works well in governmental positions of <insert country of choice here>Quote from: leppie on February 04, 2014, 02:58:59 pmand can I place it in your coffee cup?

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 03:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Coffee on February 04, 2014, 12:16:01 pmI asked my first boss why he paid me so much less than he made from my efforts. He answered "Because I take the risks. I'm responsible for anything you screw up. I You aren't. I pay for teh building, and all the expenses, regardless of whether I make any money or not. If you want all the reward, you can go into business for yourself and assume all the risk." It was an important lesson for me.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 04:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on February 04, 2014, 12:33:52 pmI'm in Turkey.Even though they can't enforce those, still it'll be very frustrating legal process.I told them that they should remove those clauses and they refused.Surprisingly they have about 200 employees

author: manticore00
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:17:31 pm
content: Back in my youth when I was looking for one of my first IT jobs after college I got hired on to a call center to do tech support. On the first day during orientation they went through a laundry list of things that were prohibited and were grounds for termination. The one that stuck out for me was that if you were seen smoking outside, no matter how far from company property, you could be sacked for it since the owner hated smoking so much. Even though I've never smoked and hate the smell of it and the habit, I quit after that first day because I don't want to work for a company that has a mentality which allows for that sort of thing.Unfortunately employment law in the US sucks and unless you work for a large company with comprehensive HR rules/guidelines you're pretty much at the mercy of your employer's whims. That said, I wouldn't want to swing the other direction and be like some countries in Europe where it takes an act of God to get someone fired, but there needs to be some happy medium.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 05:39:38 pm
content: I spent nearly a month trying to negotiate an employment contract (a few yrs ago). at the time, I was out of work and doing my own consulting company (audio hardware and software). I had made a lot of progress and gotton a prototype made and was working, and I planned on keeping that side buisiness going even when I would start a fulltime job (probably just doing the audio stuff on weekends).one company I applied for sent me the employment contract and it stated that anything I did while under their employ belonged to them. the business of the company was networking (and some java stuff) which had nothing at all to do with my product, yet they still insisted on owning anything I did. if I sold houses on weekends or fixed computers or stuff like they, it would be a violation of the contract and I'd lose whatever I worked on.we tried making the contract fulltime (in the US, that means you get benefits like health insurance and vacation/sick time off, paid). they could not word it in an acceptable way. we tried making it a contractor form (none of the benes of fulltime work) and still they insisted on that clause. a month went by and my recruiter spent a lot of time trying to get them to compromise. in the end, I had to walk away since I did not want to transfer ownership of my own IP to them.as for the 'not going to the bathroom during work hours', what kind of insanity is that?? even in the lowest of human rights countries, this is unheard of.maybe you should move. I could not imagine even being asked to live in that environment!

author: johey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 06:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: manticore00 on February 04, 2014, 05:17:31 pmAre you sure you have the complete picture of how it really is in those countries? I live in Sweden, and no, it is not as you think. Our laws give the employer plenty of options for getting rid of misplaced employers.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 06:17:27 pm
content: up until a few weeks ago, I was working at a US company that has offices around the world. we had a major layoff (1/3 of the staff) and in the US, we were walked out of the office pretty much that very day it happened. otoh, our finland office had to go thru the 'procedure' to decide on who would get the axe and how it would all work out. they could not say who would be affected over there, but in the US, we all knew who the layoffs were going to impact. in the US, we got nearly no severance (even senior managers who were impacted) but overseas, I am quite sure they got VERY nice packages and were treated much better.BTW, anyone looking for a software/hardware/networking guy in the bay area? PM me. I'm available now..

author: manticore00
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 06:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: johey on February 04, 2014, 06:05:18 pmI was thinking less about Scandinavian countries and more about France, where the labor market restrictions are significantly hurting their economy(I'm still stunned from the article a few weeks ago about union members essentially kidnapping management and forcing them to stay at the factory to negotiate... and that apparently that's not unusual and afterwards rarely results in prosecution).I've asked my wife several times if we could learn to speak either Danish, Swedish, Norwegian or Finnish and emigrate but she hates cold weather and keeps vetoing the idea.

author: johey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 07:50:15 pm
content: Haha!Either the weather is cold, or is the climate for employees.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: manticore00 on February 04, 2014, 05:17:31 pmDoes that happy medium go both ways, where the employee can't just quit and stop showing up to work? If not, then it's inherently unfair. There is absolutely zero reason to add additional laws to employers - they already deal with so many that have had a huge detrimental effect on our economy.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on February 04, 2014, 05:39:38 pmIt is actually common in some USA companies. But as always perspective is in order.One of the big problems in a manufacturing environment (aka blue collar work) is employees slacking off. Anytime something is "free", it gets abused. There are countless stories on other forums I am on regarding employees taking two 30-minute bathroom breaks per day. That's unfair to the people who don't abuse it.It's no different than smoking breaks. Responsible people, if afforded the luxury of smoking breaks, will be reasonable and take them quickly and not let it impact their work. Others will abuse it and take 10 minutes off every hour and will smoke twice or go with others and stay there until the last one has finished their cig. And the employer acts to resolve this inherent unfairness.I've never seen an office environment where bathroom breaks were not allowed during work time, but it's definitely common in blue collar work. It's not that you are disallowed from going to the bathroom, but rather you are expected to go on break (and if you have to go during work hours - that becomes your break).

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on February 04, 2014, 05:39:38 pmThis isn't uncommon, and I believe the theory behind it is that if you have a great idea while you're sat at your desk working on a company problem, you can't claim you had a flash of inspiration at 3am which you then own and can sell to the highest bidder.I've found myself on the receiving end of such a clause too, and of course, it's completely unreasonable to try and impose this on someone who works for more than one entity.I walked away - which, with hindsight, was absolutely the right thing to do.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:32:04 pm
content: Quote from: leppie on February 04, 2014, 02:58:59 pmno, just pee in the potted plant in the boss's office. since that is not officially designated 'bathroom' you are safe.For number 2 : behind the sofa in his office

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:33:29 pm
content: the deciding factor is: does this pertain to the core business of the employer or not?in my case, I was going for a networking job (C coding, network mgmt stuff) and so why would my AUDIO DESIGNS be at all up for grabs simply because I'm working 9-5 for someone else?answer: it can't be grabbed. in calif law, this won't stand up, but they can still take you to court and cost you a lot of time/money. I did not want to get into that issue and so I walked away and did not accept their terms.if I am working on something that is too related to the company business, I would ask the boss for a signed letter explaining who owns what, first. but if the 2 fields are not at all related, they have zero claim on my own IP. zero!

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:45:48 pm
content: I'm pretty sure usually these clauses are unenforceable... I think companies put it in more as a protection against an employee asserting IP on company stuff they made after leaving, rather than to tech-grab someone's hobby project.I once signed one like this, when I was working as a "software researcher". They said it's my job to come up with stuff, that's why it's there. I stayed there for about a year... Anyway, I don't think I'd sign stuff like this again.BTW the regular clause of this kind usually states that any IP you create on company equipment, or otherwise as part of your job description, belongs to the company - which is pretty understandable.

author: manticore00
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 08:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 04, 2014, 08:10:39 pmYes the medium should go both ways. It's been 10 years now so I don't remember the exact details but back in college I was in London, UK and had a part time IT tech job. IIRC I was contractually required to give 4 weeks notice when I was going to quit, if I didn't give this notice they were able to dock my wages for compensation. Here's some info about notice in the UK:http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4096Employment should be a fair contract between employee and employer with protections for both parties. The problem in the US is that executives get given golden handshakes, handcuffs and parachutes and will have other incentive or clawback provisions in their contract(sometimes), while the average worker frequently gets treated like just another cog in a machine, especially in so called "right to work" states. Average employees should have proper contracts so that both parties can enjoy the protections of contract and employment law, working "at will" is just giving employers all the benefits and crippling the rights of workers.The junk that gets put into employment contracts that are offered in the US is crazy too. As others have said, companies frequently put unenforceable or unconscionable clauses in contracts with the expectation that the employee won't have the means or will to fight it. I'd love it if a law was added that gave some favor to the employee where an employer is hit with punitive damages based on a fixed formula(so that it can't be nibbled away on appeals or some such), to be awarded to the employee in the case of an employment contract having been ruled to contain such things.Employment law doesn't have to be a winner take all fight between militant unions or cutthroat companies.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 10:29:20 pm
content: I honestly believe that everybody in this planet who enjoys electronics, programming, etc. want design great products and love to see their hard work and imagination become realityHowever, when some jerk tell you that they may have fire you without compansation if you'll get sick more then two days in a month, well that destroys my enthusiasm.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 10:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: manticore00 on February 04, 2014, 08:59:07 pmWhy should non-essential employees have contracts? For what purpose? I think your beef is more about class envy than about reasonable work conditions. Countries which have implemented more onerous rules and regulations on employers have seen decreased employment as a result. If we go off on a crusade under a misplaced desire for "equality", we can be sure we will have lower employment and worse conditions for employees. Case in point - requiring 4 weeks notice if you want to quit.Bad idea.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 10:47:09 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 04, 2014, 10:44:55 pmContracts are a trade. You give 4 weeks notice, so does the employer. You both win.I don't know why you're talking about equality, since this is about unfair contract terms, not equality.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 10:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 04, 2014, 10:44:55 pmSorry, that is nothing but typical propaganda. Lets fuck employees over, both ways, because it is good for them.Let me quote Warren Buffett "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:00:16 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 04, 2014, 10:44:55 pmbecause we are human beings and not animals?is that clear enough for you??we band together as a society to take care of each other and for mutual benefit. its NOT a 'I got mine, fark you!'. but its clearly becoming that way.this is not the way I want my world to work. it may be for the 'haves' but as time goes on, the 'haves' are becoming the 'have-nots' and the middle class is disappearing.people in a civil country do deserve to be able to make a dignified living. yes, I think its OWED TO ALL OF US as a side-effect of our belonging to a society. again, we are not animals and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than 'eat or be eaten'.

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2014, 11:51:25 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 04, 2014, 10:44:55 pmOh, I see. A 'non-essential employee' is nothing more than an easily replaceable animated sack of meat doing some completely trivial task in your company (but obviously a task that must be done in order for your company to function). This sack of meat must be doing something to make money for you, or why would you employ them at all? So why not treat this sack of meat with some dignity and respect for increasing your profits?It is this sort of pro-corporate brainwashing you espouse that has enabled 85 people on this planet have the same net worth as 3.5 billion.

author: manticore00
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:50:49 am
content: Just to dispel the idea that I have my opinions based on class warfare... I currently am a well compensated consultant making a six figure salary plus bonus and I've never felt like I've been beaten down by society or anything like that... Having said that, I realize I'm lucky and that there are plenty of men and women out there who are just as qualified as I am but who haven't necessarily had the same luck as I have had.I don't want to live in a society where the fortunes of birth determine one's future and I don't want to live in a society where the top 1% can live without a care in the world while the bottom half are living pay check to pay check. I don't want to live in a society where we're happy to spend more on imprisoning individuals than we are on paying for their education.Am I in favor of paying someone more based upon their skills and experience? Absolutely. Do I think that it's just for the lowest paid employee in a company to be living paycheck to paycheck with no security in life whilst the CEO is paid tens of millions a year? Absolutely not. There is some happy medium, we just need to agree that people aren't draft animals and agree as a society that if we're to allow people to live in the lap of luxury, there should be some floor below which we'll not allow people to fall.Society shouldn't be winner take all. I'd prefer everyone to be driving Infiniti's rather than some driving Ferraris and other driving Kias.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 05:05:09 am
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on February 04, 2014, 03:12:18 pmHow does that make any sense? If the project fails and the company goes under, you are still out of a job! Him being ultimately responsible for what goes on in the company is complete bullshit. when he takes risks, he is forcing the rest of the company to follow him. so the risk is universal. his comment about doing administrative work was a valid one though.

author: jwm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 05:33:14 am
content: Quote from: smashedProton on February 05, 2014, 05:05:09 amI am assuming he was talking as an owner. Meaning he is likely risking his house, retirement fund, and everything he owns and possibly being in debt for a small business loan on top of it. At most you risk your job and future income but nothing you already have which is yours to keep. In addition, the infrastructure you utilize for your job has costs that are not reflected in your salary but are part of your employers costs for having the results of your work. A 100k paid employee can easily actually cost 200k to an employer meaning they need 200k of work out of them to break even.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 08:55:07 am
content: Quote from: manticore00 on February 05, 2014, 04:50:49 amOoh, dangerous opinion for an American to hold, no?Flies in the face of "the American dream" - don't the hoards of temporarily embarrassed millionaires beat you down for it? After all, ifyoudon't have a ferrari, it just means you haven't been working hard enough!Also it sounds very much like socialism or even communism to most Americans to suggest that people be treated fairly. And we all know how afraid they are of that sort of thing!

author: manticore00
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 05:49:15 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on February 05, 2014, 08:55:07 amActually I'm British, I just live in the USAnd if you think I'm an evil socialist or communist, you should hear my wife speak! We went to her parents' house in the San Francisco Bay Area for Christmas and after a debate on politics her mother said she didn't realize how "conservative" I was!