Home Electrical Safety - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 05:38:26 am
content: This was getting way off topic in the Beginners forum, so starting a new thread here.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/y-capacitor-current-leakage-electromagnetic-interference-(emi)-problem/msg1104933/#msg1104933

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2017, 10:33:31 pm
content: All right, I'll bite.The first thing you should do is not assume you're a competent electrician, just because you have some qualification in electronic/electrical engineering. At the very least, read the standards relevant to your jurisdiction, before you consider doing any electrical work in your home. If you're unsure of anything, then ask a qualified electrician.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 01:04:09 pm
content: Depends on where you are and how the transfer is being done. Banks doing a bond on the property always will want the inspection of electrical, gas and, here in the borer belt, a pest clearance certificate.Cash payments can be easier, just the buyer's insurance probably will want the certificates, to reduce risk.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 01:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 05, 2017, 01:04:09 pmNot always. They've never requested that of me.They are interested that, should you default, they can recover their loan - which is very little to do with any certificate.They are interested that, should there be a fire, they can recover their loan. Sometimes they insist you have their insurance cover for the building's structure.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 01:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 04, 2017, 10:33:31 pmThat said - having your wiring done by a competent person doesn't mean it won't catch fire.As an example, aluminum wiring was the deal back when copper was expensive - and now houses catch on fire because of it.Electricity can kill you in more ways than one. It can burn you to a crisp, can electrocute you in or outside the tub, can squash you in a compactor, etc.As a homeowner, I try to keep electricity in check by monitoring the phases. Understanding and balancing the power draw on the 3 phases (I use a Secomec monitor I got for 40$ off of eBay). I got the electrician to double the gauge on the wiring to the induction cooktop (12kW and the lights don't dim!).I replace worn sockets. I have a Socket near the kids bed. It is a Gewiss and has internal insulating flaps - but I don't trust it. So it also has a "security" cover from Ikea. And it has a RCD (which I test). And still I want to Epoxy it shut forever. 220v doesn't always offer a second chance.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 01:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 04, 2017, 10:33:31 pmAs electronics people we have achanceof doing a better job than a qualified electrician. Many, maybe most professional electricians operate on a what the code says basis rather than a why it works that way basis. It is a good start, but doesn't work for every situation. That is why codes are continually changing.But humility is important too. The codes are complex, and organized in ways that may not be natural for many people. Asking someone can be a better and faster route to understanding the applicable rule than trying to interpret for yourself.Finally, remember that in the case of something bad happening, you will be at risk of losing insurance payouts and even criminal liability if the wiring is not code compliant, regardless of what "right" actually is.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 03:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on January 05, 2017, 01:57:30 pmTrue.In addition the reason for some specific requirements can be difficult for a non-expert to discern. That's because they are written to minimise the harm when several unlikely things don't happen as they ought to happen. And on building sites, if there's a corner that can be cut, itwillbe cut.N.B. "non-expert" means "average practitioner" and/or "someone skilled in a similar but different area". "Expert" means someone that has been thinking and dealing with strange unlikely situations for a long time.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2017, 10:34:59 pm
content: QuoteSo you tested with a non contact voltage tester, it didn't respond, and you were still shocked?

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 12:16:57 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on January 06, 2017, 10:34:59 pmAt least my Fluke non-contact voltage sensor suggests in the instructions that you should verify its operation every time you use it. Personally if I know I'm going to touch the conductor, I check with a meter or "Wiggy" -- I got one back when I completely rewired my garage, it's a crude instrument, but I kind of like the fact that you can feel the 60hz vibration even if you're not looking at it. Also my DMM doesn't have a 'Lo Z' mode.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 07:10:48 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on January 06, 2017, 10:34:59 pmActually, most likely I didn't test the hot wire on that outlet once the breaker was off... the tester was working fine to confirm the live/neutral swap.The funny thing was I was thinking 'what if it was live' as I was untwisting the ground wires with a pair of pliers next to it.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 10:36:39 am
content: Quote from: orin on January 07, 2017, 07:10:48 amYou should have been thinking: Thank you "big CPU in the sky" for having me live in a 110V country. More than likely you would have walked away. At 220v it becomes iffier - and appreciably nastier.I - personally - cannot bring myself to use these proximity sensors. Had a Fluke one (I got free) and always ended up using a trusted DMM (and even then only after verifying it properly displays 220v). I dumped the Fluke sensor in the trash (I actually have no-one who I dislike enough to give one - and I do give away stuff like the DMMs I get from Omega).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 07:40:37 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on January 08, 2017, 10:36:39 amyepQuote from: Assafl on January 08, 2017, 10:36:39 amI use an older style that will beep depending on the voltage level, very slow if nothing, and faster as the field increases. It can be annoying but works well. Looks like most modern devices are either on or off.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 07:25:52 am
content: I wouldn't call 110V safer, you do get double the amps for half the voltage (compared to 240V).However, given code says all mains cabling has to be within conduit, very unlikely to issues involving rodents and chewed cables.Mains and HV cabling within appliances is far better protected than cabling run around homes. Most people of this forum use heatshink over exposed mains terminals/fuse holders, cable tie wires to prevent shorts should wires break loose. Never see this sort of thing in most stuff Electricians build into homes and businesses.I've had problems with the wiring in this house due to lax electricians, one didn't tighten a screw in a GFCI. Found the issue when the breaker tripped for some reason (mices), and got a pyrotechnics display from inside the switchboard. Two wires with melted insulation lead to the very loose connection. Electrician that came out to investigate didn't seem interested in replacing the heat damaged GFCI. Oddly all the glitches we got from devices around the house went away after that.Yeah, professional only means you paid them, doesn't mean they did a 100% job.That fault was there for 7 years, as I know when the last worked on that circuit.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 04:21:49 pm
content: With electricity everywhere and muggles using it, it is interesting that almost only professional electricians are electrocuted. Look up the stats.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 09:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on January 10, 2017, 07:25:52 amLoose connection - seen that one too. On a light switch. I thought the switch itself was bad, but when I went to replace it, there was a loose connection. I replaced it anyway.

author: orin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 09:44:21 pm
content: Quote from: Seekonk on January 10, 2017, 04:21:49 pmWhen I was doing a summer job as "electrician's mate" in England, my foreman once managed to touch something at 600V. His swearing got more creative than usual... I didn't get to do much more than carry things around for the electrician on that job.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 10:13:48 pm
content: Quote from: orin on January 10, 2017, 09:44:21 pmWhen you account for their exposure to live wiring - their statistics are actually better than the layman. But since they are exposed - they get electrocuted quite a bit. It is a dangerous job!Quote from: station240 on January 10, 2017, 07:25:52 amNot safer - less dangerous than 220V is for electrocution - but still dangerous nonetheless.110V is more dangerous than 220V for starting fires since the current is higher.Note that saying that something is less dangerous doesn't mean it is inherently safe. Both 110V and 220V can kill you by fire or electrocution.