Any experience with these $8 soldering irons? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 08:47:59 pm
content: Does anyone here have any experience withthese super-cheapo $8 irons from eBay?We're putting together a "maker-space" at my son's elementary school. I'm donating an old Weller WLC100 I have lying around. Eventually I'm thinking of purchasing a bunch of cheap irons so that I can teach a group to solder. I realize these are crap - but I did use a similarly cheap iron once while visiting the Noisebridge Hackerspace in San Francisco. As cheap as it was, it was actually usable.I'm wondering if these cheap ones are reasonably safe and usable for kids.Any personal experiences much appreciated.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:09:24 pm
content: I don't know about safety. Different people have different concepts about it. And working with kids may put additional limitations.I personally find them acceptable for "coarse" work - through hole components only. SMD work is possible, but gets really annoying. If you know what you are doing and have a goal to reach, you will make any tool work. But having poor tools when you are starting may discourage you from going further.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:48:21 pm
content: A mains heating element and a two pin plug is *NOT* a good combo from a personal or equipment safety point of view. You said 'elementary school' so your intended users are pre-teens. Do you *really* want to buy mains powered tools to be used by kids from a sketchy Hong Kong EBAY seller?At the very least, I'd be looking for a seller with a real US presence and either a three pin plug or if two pin, evidence its compliant with US safety standards.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 12, 2016, 09:09:24 pmHa - yes through hole only - by new to soldering 6-12 year olds - yes "coarse work" would be an understatement.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 10:09:54 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 12, 2016, 09:48:21 pmEven if it is properly insulated? The reality is there are LOTS of two pin mains powered appliances (often UL listed) - toasters, lamps etc that these kids are exposed to everyday with no supervision.I'm not sure what "sketchy Hong Kong EBAY seller" means. The link is to a seller with over 79,000 sales and a 99% rating. Ships from New Jersey - though admittedly that doesn't mean much.Look - of course it would be preferable to purchase 3 pin UL listed irons. But the reality is there are 2 pin mains powered devices that are safe (UL listed or not). There are plenty of 2 prong irons sold by US sellers on Amazon in the 15-30 dollar range - mostly likely made in China.Since I would be buying several of these, I'm hoping to not spend more than necessary. I won't supply a bunch of poorly insulated and/or unusable irons. Which is of course why I asked if anyone had personal experience with one of these.I may just have to buy one and test it/tear it down myself.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:26:51 pm
content: I did a bit of searching on the seller of the item you linked to and it seems they are Hong Kong based, although there is a US contact address. Its not uncommon for Chinese EBAY sellers to use a relative in the US as their contact address but actually drop-ship from mainland China, as the cheapest USPS flat rate box is $6.10 to business customers, but ChinaPost international rates are heavily subsidised.At the very least, if I were you, I'd buy a sample, HiPot test it, both cold and hot, and tear it down - it *MAY* be entirely satisfactory from a safety point of view, but that's not a gamble I'd be willing to take without evidence to support it when a child's life + all the assets that are in your name are on the line.Its unfortunate that you don't have the budget for Antex CS 18W 115V irons. Their slimline handle, short shaft and light weight makes them vastly preferable for younger users that may have difficulty controlling a full size iron. Of course they aren't anywhere near as good as a >50W temperature controlled iron or station.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 12, 2016, 11:26:51 pmThat's a good point about the ergonomics that might be particularly important for small hands. I'll keep that in mind.At this point I am just thinking about options. The Makerspace is still being developed and I am not yet sure how much of it will be devoted to electronics. I've volunteered to help with that part but it is all a work in progress at this point.If the electronics curriculum proves popular then more money may become available from other parents or grants and purchasing better irons may be an option. The money will not come from the school.The revelation in the $300 lab thread that the Hakko 936 clones can be purchased for $24 shipped from Amazon means they could be an option if/when more money is available.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:56:44 am
content: 936 clones can be had for <$20. Parts and tips are plentiful. Dave reviewed one a while ago:It's pretty crap compared to real Hakkos and Wellers, but still far better than the $8 non-temperature-controlled ones being discussed here. From a safety standpoint, the heater is low voltage (24V) and although the Chinese seem to be bad at isolation on cheap SMPS, this design uses a traditional big linear transformer. The iron is lighter and grip-tip distance shorter than a mains-powered iron. Plus, it'sESD safe!!

author: kingfisher
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 02:21:34 am
content: I have one (it's slightly different, but it's basically the same) and use it pretty often. It's exactly what you would expect from an $8 soldering iron kit. Every few months I need to get a new one, but I get more use out of it than most people. I run a soldering workshop for kids with these kits, and they are perfect for the job.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 02:35:09 am
content: I have no experience with that particular iron, but have used many similar over the years. My biggest safety concern would be burns from the hot iron. Possibly a worse hazard in this style of iron because many I have had contact with get very hot even in "handle" region. Of course you will have significant danger from burns with the best possible iron you can get, so as others have said, whether these cross the acceptable safety boundary is a matter of opinion.Remember it is not your opinion, or any of ours that matter. It is the opinion of the child's parent (or possibly the parents legal team) after an accident has occurred.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 05:36:04 am
content: Quote from: kingfisher on December 13, 2016, 02:21:34 amThat's a useful data point. Thanks.As far as burn risk - I wonder how hot that "heat shield" along the shaft between tip and handle gets during use?I'm gonna see what develops with this school Makerspace. If there's an interest in soldering lessons, I'll probably buy one of these and test it. I can't really do a proper High Pot test - since I have no high voltage AC supply but I do have a high Voltage DC (3000V) supply I can use.In the meantime maybe money will become available to purchase several better irons.As far as liability risk - there's always that but in this case it will be minimal. The Makerspace will be part of a separate, "highly capable" school program that is quite small (70-80 kids). This is a small town and many of the parents are personal friends.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 05:38:55 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 13, 2016, 05:36:04 amAs hot as a piece of metal attached to the tip will get. It will burn if you touch it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 06:40:09 am
content: I remember learning to solder with an iron like these. In a class when I was 9 or 10. I gave myself a blister, once, but nothing bad. Probably 15 kids to one teacher. No problems. They're better than nothing. But as the numbers go up, you might keep in mind the maintenance involved when the tips start going south.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 07:30:47 am
content: this is the best for the price.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EU-plug-BK-950D-mini-Portable-Digital-soldering-station-Electric-solder-iron-T12-tips-Heating-Core/32714184325.htmlyou can probably find a seller with a u.s. plug if your lucky - if there is a "standard" plug for the u.s.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 07:49:02 am
content: What will the kids be soldering? A 60-watt wall iron gets too hot (over 900 degrees F usually) for typical PCB soldering. You should look for a 25-30 watt one.When you have a temperature-controlled solder station, there's no such thing as too much wattage, but with a wall iron like that, it just runs, like a light bulb in a basic lamp, and it gets as hot as its wattage will allow, limited only by the point that it reaches equilibrium between the heat it's pumping to the tip and the heat the tip is losing to the air.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 08:03:02 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on December 13, 2016, 05:38:55 amYep, one very similar to in the OP got my youngest son when he was ~10 and I'd bought it for his B'day.He got quite good at TH stuff, well good enough to top the school in electronics that year.Shame he lost interest a few years later when he found girls.Anyways it's just a cheap firestick iron, some are earthed, some not.But they can be tamed heaps by just adding an incandescent light bulb dimmer and become perfectly usable .........what I used for many years before I got a cheap but OK rework station.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 01:16:11 pm
content: Quote from: kingfisher on December 13, 2016, 02:21:34 amNot sure I understand how they are perfect for the job if you have to replace it every few months. Why don't you get a decent unit and stop replacing it every few months? You spend far more in the long run that if you bought quality up front. Even getting one of those Yihua 936http://www.ebay.com/itm/YiHua-110V-936-Rework-Soldering-Station-SMD-Desoldering-Solder-Iron-Handle-ESD-/361195877186?hash=item5418f3b342:g:m00AAOSwGvhULmR5Cheaper than the cost of 3 of those $8 units you replace every few months. You will probably get more life out of it and come out cheaper in the long run, plus it's ESD safer.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2016, 10:23:40 pm
content: Its cheap enough you can buy one and test it, then report back.I've used cheapos because in a pinch it'll work for a quick fix, one use, disposable, the type you buy at Home Depot or Walmart. They self destruct because often materials are not compatible with the heat it generates, but it will last longer if you keep the duty cycle low, i.e., unplug it until the moment you need it. The finger guard and top portion tend to get hot and melt first.Be careful with that stand design. If the powered iron touches the spiral, the whole stand will get hot. If the base is not metal but plastic, it will melt or loosen the screw and spiral fall off. If the spiral heats up it will also melt the plastic iron holder on the spiral, as well as handle of the iron.1/3rd of that kit is a cellphone battery change kit that often sells for $1: 2 small drivers, suction cup, plastic pry tools, guitar pick.Unknown is the vacuum tool, flux and tweezers. It could be good but my bet is all aren't. If the vaccum tool works, the weak point of that design was the tip; its supposed to contact the component and if not made of heat resistant plastic, will melt soon with use as well as hot solder make small defects in the tool tube; if that happens the o-ring in the plunger will leak and no longer seal. You can prolong the tube life by swabbing it with silicone grease so only the tip wear becomes the issue. If the tweezers are not fair grade steel, it will bend with minor force and be useless soon or rust. Maybe the flux is good?Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 08:47:59 pm

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:26:40 am
content: I think it's worth spending a little more money to get temperature controlled soldering irons:http://www.ebay.com/itm/110V-Adjustable-Electric-Temperature-Gun-Welding-Soldering-Station-Iron-Tool-60W-/390937101537

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:52:07 am
content: I'm going to wait and see how this school "makerspace" develops. As I mentioned, I'm donating an older Weller iron I no longer use. At this point it is not clear how much electronics interest there will be. The main person organizing it and the teachers involved don't know much about electronics and their initial supply request shows it. They are writing grants and asking for parental donations to get things like "ozbot" and "little bits" classroom kits and "makey-makey" kits but not much stuff for basics electronics other than a soldering iron and solder. I'm hoping I can get some interest going for actually building stuff.If it looks like the interest is there I will definitely need to dig deeper into cheap soldering iron options. I'll probably order one of these $8 irons for now to test and tear down.BTW - a visit to my local hardware store revealed a couple of different but similar looking, cheap, 2 pin directly into mains soldering irons for sale.Quote from: edavid on December 15, 2016, 12:26:40 amI think for this situation it's probably better to avoid a very cheap iron with a temp control. I think these are probably more fragile and subject to fail under the abuse of the little monkeys.If more money becomes available - I think getting some of the $24 Hakko 936 clones would be the thing to do.I appreciate everyone's ideas and input!

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:03:51 am
content: the hakko T12 clones i listed would be cheaper to keep running,either way, you need teperature controlled irons if they are going to be soldering kits with cheap pcb'syou probably want to be using lead-free solder & fume extraction too - given your in the country of liability actions!

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:09:56 am
content: Quote from: edavid on December 15, 2016, 12:26:40 ami would avoid that - it does not look earthed.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:36:51 am
content: Quote from: stj on December 15, 2016, 04:09:56 amIt appears to have an isolated heater, and a ground clip for the tip.

author: B-Skunktail
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:37:47 am
content: A teardown is available on one of those irons if you're interested.He doesn't seem impressed...

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:43:27 am
content: lolany time the tip is held by a screw your looking at a craft / branding iron - not a soldering tool.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 05:12:05 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 08:47:59 pmDon't, just don't.I tore down one of these on the Mailbag and they are truly horrendous.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 06:17:50 am
content: Quote from: B-Skunktail on December 15, 2016, 04:37:47 amWow, that's pretty bad. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Thanks for the link!

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:45:10 pm
content: Does anyone remember which mailbag had the teardown?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 01:02:02 pm
content: Are you kidding? A Weller SP40NUS is 15 USD on Amazon. It is still probably a pile of poo, but at least it will not kill you. Have a rule, and dont buy anything "The cheapest" chinese, which has lithium battery or plugs into 230V.Actually, the SP25NKUS is 8.7 USD

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 02:41:08 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 08:47:59 pmFFS, just don't!!! if you want to risk killing yourself or someone else then buy a few!

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 03:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on December 15, 2016, 01:02:02 pmThanks for pointing those out. Do you have any experience with those 2 Weller irons? I know Weller sells ungrounded 2 pin irons. Are they actually safer?Again - the whole reason for my OP was to get some first hand opinion. Anyone can look at the $8 eBay irons and see that they are built to a price. But that does not necessarily mean unsafe or unusable. The cheap Weller's may be unsafe and/or unusable as well - as experience shows branding does not always ensure safe construction or usability.Dave's input after a teardown and Big Clive's video were helpful. I'm convinced that I should pass on those eBay irons. Would love the hear or be pointed to first hand reviews of other super inexpensive irons.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 04:07:10 pm
content: i am waiting for delivery of the one i linked - i will tear it down for a full inspection before i even plug it in.(like everything i get from asia)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 06:28:48 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 15, 2016, 03:49:28 pmIn most countriesanyappliance with exposed metal parts MUST have a mains earth connection by law and for good reason.It wouldn't be lawful to sell any directly mains powered soldering iron with only a 2 pin mains plug here in NZ.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:18:04 pm
content: I see several problems:At first , i see that is a bestiality that a little boy uses a 60W soldering. Do they go to solder electrical wires of 2.5 or 4 mm? I believe that no.As much they will solder a thin wires, and with a soldering 20-30 W and with this,they will have enough.Second, i see that is a soldering too long for a kid(8-10). we take care that the arms of the kids hasn't the same long than the teen or adult people. Furthermore, there is a certain danger that a boy suffers an accident by the falling soldering and the boy burns with a burning injured of 2 grade.(If with a little soldering pain lot, you imagine with a 60 W).Finally ,i think that the best tools for a little boys for teaching the first technics of soldering is with soldering of 20-30 W or with soldering gun. It's tools shorts and compacts ideals for kids.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 15, 2016, 06:28:48 pmHmm, interesting. Here in the USA there are still many 2 pin mains powered appliances with exposed metal parts - and they are usually UL listed. It would seem to me that with proper insulation this is not a safety concern and I don't think UL is ignorant of the risks.I'd rather have a 2 pin, ungrounded and properly insulated device than one with a 3 pin plug and dodgy connection to earth inside - and we all know that plenty of those are around.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:46:18 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on December 15, 2016, 07:18:04 pmI've got a nice little Antex X25 that boxes well above its weight and I can assure you it would burn you just as quick as any 60W iron.Sorry, it's not W that burns but temp and solder melts at high temp compared to skin.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 07:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 15, 2016, 07:44:46 pmHere 3 pin wall sockets are mandatory and all installations are ground return tested, or should be, it's law.Maybe your authorities don't consider single phase 110 VAC as dangerous as our 230 VAC.That would worry me, not so much for my own safety but the population in general. Thinking kids...........

author: anman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 08:47:59 pmLet the seller will present instructions for use and product certification of the goods. Many things will become clear.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 09:17:12 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 15, 2016, 07:46:18 pmCan confirm, these and the smaller model (18W I think?) were quite popular among fellow students.I only find it really annoying having to use an iron without a stand... More than once a burn streak was left in the desk, not to mention the chicken dance that ensues when you pull it off the table into your lap.