WTB - hp 16361A 1KHz DUT BOX - for adjustment 4261A - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 05:29:08 am
content: I am looking for hp 16361A, a unit that comes with standard capacitors and resistors for LCR meter adjustment/calibration.my 4261A repair will be completed soon and we are looking to make adjustments.At first I was thinking of getting the capacitors and resistors I need in pieces, but it would be costly and I can't get capacitors with the required accuracy.I am not looking for ppm like marco reps, but I am concerned about accuracy, even though I am an amateur.I live in Japan. best regards.

author: ZGoode
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 06:55:37 am
content: While I don't have a standard box like that, I do have access to a recently calibrated Keysight E4980A and could categorize a reference set for you if you wish. I was planning on getting some decent, but not crazy expensive parts off of digikey for that. I was planning on doing that for my 4277A which I just recently repaired. Let me know what you think about that.Another option is you could maybe see if the user Terratech has a calibration set and might be willing to help since he is in Japan and has been doing a lot of work with the 4276A.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 03:40:36 pm
content: QuoteCertainly, if you buy and select a lot of capacitors, you can get a value close to the desired capacitance; if you use C0G or mica, the aging will be perfect.However, mica is expensive, and you cannot spend money on an adjustment that may be a one-time event.C0G 20-30 pieces might be realistic.The only values needed for adjustment seem to be a 10nF, 1000pF capacitor and a 100kohm resistor.Resistors seem to need a resistance value, capacitors need a capacitance and a Dissipation value.For performance testCapacitors:100pF1000pF10nF100nF1000nF10uF1000uF10mFResistance:1Kohm10kohm100kohm10MohmInductors:100mHFor dissipation value1000nF with paralleled 887ohm (D=1.50 at 120Hz)100nF with paralleled 887ohm (D=1.27 at 120Hz)is required.But I have only 4261A LCR in my possession, which is the main subject, so I have nothing to compare it to.QuoteIs Terratech the Iron Man guy we see so often? It certainly sounds like he lives in Japan, so it might be worth asking.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 07:01:53 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on August 07, 2024, 03:40:36 pmThat would be TERRA Operative - an Aussie living in Japan, with a Youtube channel. User profile linkhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=170266You have interacted with him recently in this threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-lcrlcz-comparator-handler-interface-recreation-16064a/25/

author: ZGoode
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 07:14:54 am
content: Yup, Kean is right. Don't know how I mixed up his username with a game, but yes, I was referring to "TERRA Operative". If you are near Tokyo he might be able to help you out.

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 08:57:00 am
content: I will try to contact TERRA.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 11:07:21 am
content: Hi!I have a number of LCR meters, but none are actually calibrated unfortunately. I'm working on that myself too.However, if someone has a calibrated instrument who can characterise some SMD resistors and capacitors, I have made a design for 4-wire Kelvin BNC references that fit into a standard Takachi enclosure that can be DIY'd.They replicate the42030A 4-Terminal Pair Standard Resistor Setand I have also made a short and open (The open simply has no component installed, the short has a chunk of copper in place of a resistor).So far I have made a complete set of resistance standards that I have measured on my 34461A multimeter (far more accurate than any LCR meter), next I plan to design and construct some air-core capacitors, but there's no reason my PCB's can't be used with SMD capacitors too.See below for photos and the gerbers. (I haven't finished labeling mine, but you get the idea).For each standard you'll need (besides your resistor):1x Lid PCB1x Internal PCB1x Takachi TD4-9-3N enclosure4x Male panel mount BNC's (Cut the locking ring off two of them)2x 3D printed levers4x M3.5 screwsFor the resistors, I used these:(Any resistor with as low a tolerance and as low a temperature coefficient as your wallet allows will work, as long as it meets or exceeds the original spec of the 42030A set)0.001R - Y41880R00100D9R0.01R - Y44870R01000B9R0.1R - Y44870R10000B9R1.0R - CPF1206B1R0E110R - RNCF1206AKT10R0100R - TNPU1206100RAZEN001K - TNPU12061K00AWEN0010K - TNPU120610K0AWEN00100K - TNPU1206100KAZEN00I also figured out the internal wiring of the 04284-65007 Interface Box that may or may not be needed.I added the diagram below. This can be made from some BNC connectors and levers, a Takachi T 10-4-7 enclosure, and a PCB lid (I have a couple spares I can give away for free, while they last).

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 12:26:26 pm
content: We are not too worried about resistors. It is relatively easy to get high precision ones. You can also get Vishay foil if you pay for it.The problem is the capacitor. need a dissipation factor to adjust it. need to measure the dissipation factor of the capacitor, but as I mentioned, I only have 4261A.The reason I am concerned about the adjustment is because once all the components that were on the board were removed and installed.This is because when I purchased the 4261A, it had a conformal coating on the surface of the board. It had deteriorated and was peeling off after 50 years.Therefore, we removed all the parts, cleaned them with paint thinner, and resoldered them. I don't want to think that this alone would throw off the adjustment, but I have to think about it.I checked and it looks like there is a store in Akihabara that has the 16361A. They don't seem to sell it, but I might ask them to adjust it.once the repair is complete, we will test it with a readily available 1% mica capacitor; if it is over 1%, it is a problem, but if it is not over, it is not a problem for hobby use.