Bakelite...  W.T.F. !!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 12:54:23 pm
content: I'm not sure if I've learnt something new, or I'm in the Twilight Zone !I've been an Elect/Tech for nearly 50 years, and love the smell of Bakelite being cut.Hang in there...this gets wild...Bakelite, orPolyoxybenzylmethyleneglycolanhydride, was the first plastic made from synthetic components.It is a thermosetting phenol formaldehyde resin, formed from a condensation reaction of phenol with formaldehyde.Anyway... partially unrelated to this, I was looking at a YouTube Video about a very old Bakelite-Bodied Mouse-Trap.It was initiallyin-effective, but that'sbesidethe point !! In the Video, (pointed to later), he showed the'trap' in action somewhere, using only Infra-Red for the filming. It was not until drilling down through the Comments,that someone mentioned about how/why the Bakelite appeared TRANSPARENT in Infra-RedWHAT !!I reviewed it, and found the following. Here's the original video for now, but ignore it for the moment, except forthe part at 4:06 later, for what I am referencing...1st, here's a picture of the Bakelite 'device' in normal light...Now here's a picture from 4:06 in the video, under Infra-Red light...The Bakelite 'body' is now transparent ??, and you can see the mouses head/snout come into viewThere is very little I can find on the Internet for some reason, but i did find this from a book (image created)...Which was from this site ref...Materials: engineering, science, processing and design...https://books.google.com.au/books?id=sqaH1CNY2isC&pg=PA462&lpg=PA462&dq=bakelite+transparent+infrared&source=bl&ots=f4IKd1G2tO&sig=CwhZD-ShFObADZPsZg536J6MDiA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKyqORspLeAhXUT30KHfcfBWkQ6AEwEXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=bakelite%20transparent%20infrared&f=falseThis has blown my mind...

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 01:21:41 pm
content: Wow, you learn something every day!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 01:54:59 pm
content: Wow +1 ... thanks for bringing this out.Instantly I thought about those voltnut's wrapping materials on their voltage references.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 01:59:54 pm
content: This is pretty cool.I quite like the material Bakelite, it has a heavy duty, almost made out of stone quality that doesn't really exist anywhere else. There are a plethora of reasons why it's not a brilliant construction material for anything in today's world, but I do like the feel of a good Bakelite telephone or something like that.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 02:36:39 pm
content: Heads up: bakelite items sometimes have hidden internal reinforcement in the form of paper or asbestos.Phenolic paper PCBs (FR1, FR2) are in the same chemical family.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 03:17:12 pm
content: Thanks for sharing! ++1To me, Bakelite items bring back fond memories of my grandfather's workshop.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 03:43:40 pm
content: I did not know this about bakelite.Thanks for sharing

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 04:01:00 pm
content: I experimented a bit with infrared photography back in the 80s (trying to photograph a ghost). The Kodak IR filters I bought from the local photography shop (Wratten 87 or 88 something I think) were visually opaque. I wonder if I still have those somewhere?

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 04:04:02 pm
content: The stuff has a bandgap? I wonder if there is at least the possibility of a three or four level system with a population lifetime in level 3 sufficiently greater then that in level 2 to allow a population inversion?Pump it with enough light matching the upper exited state, add some IR mirrors, and get an undeniably steampunk laser!Regards, Dan.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 04:41:41 pm
content: I also did not know this. I knew Bakelite or as Philips called it Philite had high electric isolation properties and could resist high temperatures (IIRC upto 275oC ).I wonder now if this high temperature resistance could be because the infrared heat would go through it ?

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 09:11:29 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on October 19, 2018, 02:36:39 pmYes and commonly wood flour for bulk castings. I think also talc powder, but that may have been applied to the mold surface only. What I find curious is that the mouse trap pictured looks dark/black indicating at least the inclusion of a colouring agent. I thought unfilled resin was a clear amber color, in the visual spectrum, and that any filler would make it opaque at longer wavelengths.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2018, 09:20:58 pm
content: Anyone has a vintage bakelite tube radio? Please snap and post a thermal picture of the warm inside glow...

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2018, 07:11:07 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 19, 2018, 09:20:58 pmI believe my "Truetone" is bakelite. It warmed up until picking up the nearest station. Doesn't look transparent to me. The back is metal.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2018, 09:18:58 am
content: hmm 230V should be lethal.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 12:08:26 pm
content: Thanks to all. Definitely needs more research.dmills ... I thought you were "taking the piss" with it. Still not sure... haha...ivaylo ... Thanks for the images. I'll research the effect more !!Kjelt ... I hear what you are saying. I'll research that aspect too !

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2018, 01:52:33 pm
content: Quote from: ivaylo on October 20, 2018, 07:11:07 amFirst of all, congrats on this that little piece of history you own!But to your question....you used a thermal imaging camera, correct? If so, that is long infrared.By the looks of the mouse image, I believe it was shot in near infrared, around 900nm.I used to own a Sony Cybershot camera which had selectable near-infrared capabilities. It allowed many interesting photographs. For instance, women who had had their hair dyed, would appear white in IR, regardless of their actual (fake) hair color!!Most surveillance cameras have near infrared capabilities, and they automatically switch to that mode (along with the proper IR LEDs) as dusk approaches.