Atari 2600 resoldering skills - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pm
content: Hi, I have been repairing and restoring my Atari 2600, and I wanted to show off my soldering skills. It is not perfect by any means, but it is better than it was when I constructed my first PCB back in 2013! The joints are shiny and concave, no cracks or holes. that is a proper joint. It may look like there was too much solder that leaked to the top of the board, but that is actually how it is supposed to be. I know that because the board was soldered like that out of the factory. That is to ensure both top and bottom pads have good connection to component leads in case the vias cracks over time. It also ensures a good grip on the leads.I originally wanted to show off my skills to inform others, but a couple friends of mine snapped me out of it and told me what I was doing wrong. I’m thankful they did, because the mistakes I made were a bit farther from trivial than I thought: Solder smearing, too much solder, dirty joints... these are common intermediate mistakes that are easily overlooked. These mistakes could cause problems in the future. This proves the fact that soldering is quite a learning experience, and it requires a lot of time and patience and attention. I replaced the old photos with ones of the motherboard since it was a better example.Indeed, I accidentally tore off a pad with the diode, but the pad was not connected to a trace. The via remained intact, thus the diode is still properly soldered in. The bottom pad remained intact. The other pad on the diode didn’t share the same fate though; the trace attached to the upper pad tore a bit. But thankfully, I was able to expose a bit of the trace and jump a little solder from the leg of the diode to the trace without bridging to any other component. The reason the diode tore trace and pads was due to the age of the board and due to insufficient heat. Learn from my mistake and don’t force components! The lack of heat was my fault for setting the iron too low first time around.The main things to note are that the solder joints are not rough-looking or dull. They are shiny, smooth, and round. They do not have holes or cracks. That is a proper joint. Remember to watch for smearing though, it can and will catch you off guard if you aren’t attentive enough!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 05:04:36 pm
content: Nope, it's not how good soldering looks like. While it's not horrible, it's certainly of sub-par quality. There are issues like solder not fully covering pads, solder smeared, solder extending over pad area, excessive amount of solder on smaller joints, solder surface is not smooth, no nice fillet and others. One joint is simply cold joint junk.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 06:04:34 pm
content: https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837Most videos aren't worth watching; those "Pace Basic Soldering Lessons 1 - 9" videos are worth watching.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 06:09:22 pm
content: QuoteYou cannot clean that. It's a single piece of solder alloy together with what's on the pad. As I said, it's not horrible for beginner. But you cannot call it proper soldering and brag about it.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 07:29:35 pm
content: Here you go. Fixed up a couple by sheer dumb luck (I DID fuck up a bit, but that was due to dirty areas with solder on them that I most likely didn’t notice when I first worked on it) HOWEVER, no matter how hard I tried, one pad was always extended a bit. This confirms the flaky mask bit. It is subtle, but it is enough to throw off the symmetry. I did a few others as well. I’ve decided to replace the photos in the original post with ones of a good new board that don’t have the flaws this one does. I picked a bad example, so fool on me for that.I must thank you though, because I screwed up one joint that you didn’t point out on the capacitor lead. There was a small hole; apparently a bit of tip flux got in and sealed any chance of solder flowing in. I cleaned it up with wick and redid it and it looks pristine now.On that note though, I have decided to go over every joint with a loupe and check for errors one more time. I’ll post the follow up images here when I finish.Also, these joints are what my joints typically look like as well. I used better solder, as you can see, and therefore it was clean and octopus-arm-free. Dirty solder was the main culprit in the drug out solder from earlier.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 07:52:20 pm
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 07:29:35 pmCan I suggest a more fundamental mistake was to not do enough research before declaring success.Not to worry, though. Everybody has to be a beginner, and ignorance (I.e. lack of research) is easily curable!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 08:20:03 pm
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 07:29:35 pmLooks a way better.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 08:24:24 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 28, 2019, 07:52:20 pmYeah, you’re right. I was too hasty in declaring my (unfinished, so even more of a mistake!) work as “standard do it this way”Thankfully, I replaced the images with a more polished board with far less flaws. It has a few spots I recently finished and need to inspect again, but it is mostly complete. If you see any errors, please point them out ASAP! I want to get the board working, and I want to make sure any mistake I don’t catch doesn’t slip through and end up destroying my 2600. I’ll be inspecting it tomorrow with a loupe, but even then there may be a tiny error I don’t see right away.I finished the switchboard, and it is a mess from the flux, but I cleaned up the smears. Turns out the solder I was using the first time around was dipped in tip refresh flux on accident, and that contaminated it. It stuck to the iron and drug out after I would pull the iron away from a joint. I used a solder sucker and removed the dirty solder, and put new solder on. They had no dragging after that, it was uniform and intact with no “octopus arms” as I like to call them.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2019, 09:54:41 pm
content: Though if you want to see horrible soldering, check out the cheap third party SNES controller I disassembled and took a look at (there’s no way I’m putting a cheapo controller in an SNES without checking and making sure it is assembled correctly!)This soldering is the worst I’ve seen in a long while.

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 05:36:26 am
content: In the first picture in the first post, are some of the bigger traces separating from the board?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 05:55:51 am
content: The lighting your working under does not seem to be helping things, looks like cheap LED lighting which is coming up purple / red in pictures,The latest pictures need more flux, not sure if your solder is quite old or what, but those joints still don't look clean,Tricks to remember:Solder flows to the heat source, you want the iron above a joint to add solder and below it to remove (assuming held at some angle so gravity helps)Most impurities will float on top of the solder, as such you may need to attack a joint from more than 1 angle to flow it off the joint and to the iron where you can clean it.If you suspect the original solder was lead free, try to remove as much as possible before adding new solder to the jointGel flux syringes are pretty much easy mode, if a joint looks ugly, add a tiny amount and reheat the joint and most times it will turn clean and shiny,

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2019, 05:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: MyHeadHz on December 29, 2019, 05:36:26 amNope, they are all intact.Quote from: Rerouter on December 29, 2019, 05:55:51 amAll joints are clean and shiny. They are so shiny they are reflecting the environment around them. As for the latest pictures, it is almost the same deal, though my rosin core solder was probably exhibiting the thinning of flux that can occur from time to time. I’m going over the joints one more time with a loupe, and fixing any joints that were affected by the thin-flux solder issue using some better solder. And yes, I always remove LF solder completely, first with a sucker and then with a braid, before putting the (wonderful) leaded solder on the joint.I also always ensure there is no dirt or debris floating around in my joint. That stuff can cause cracks and bad solder joints very easily if it is bad enough. It is best to assume that dirty solder joints are bad.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 01:37:09 pm
content: If you haven't seen this it's an excellent reference for lots of things, including how a solder joint should lookhttps://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/frameset.htmlEven if you have seen it, maybe someone else looking for soldering examples will find this useful.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 02:53:51 pm
content: Ooh, soldering thread!What do you all think of my crappy efforts? (I think I have a habit of using just atinybit too much solder, maybe I should use thinner solder..)I don't often get the chance to have someone look at my stuff.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 03:30:35 pm
content: Soldering looks fine in those joints, If its a PCB you designed though, increase the pad size for those caps next time, that is a lot of mass to swing off such small pads,And yes 0.71mm solder makes a lot of things much easier to work with, I would be annoyed if i had to do SMD rework with 1mm,

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 03:38:55 pm
content: If you want to resolder boards to look minty fresh, you need to suck away the old solder and then clean old flux and dirt away with IPA first, it may need a good scrub.Solder again with a very clean tip and apply fresh solder. If the solder doesn't wet well (you can tell as it balls up instead of flowing into the joint and the entire pad) you may need to add additional flux, clean or look at the temp. If you stay on the joint for more than a couple of seconds or go in multiple times without adding flux it will reduce the wetting and look clumpy. Last step is to clean away residue.I was taught to look at oven or wave soldered boards (at least the high quality boards) and make my joints as good as that. It should not look hand soldered at all and if you can fool someone you have done a decent job. Something to work on anyway.Another tip is take photos in good light but at an angle after the board is cleaned, you cannot inspect joints properly from top down or while they are dirty. Don't get discouraged though most people suck at soldering.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 05:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on December 30, 2019, 03:30:35 pmNah not my design, I'll be doing a full redesign for other reasons though, so I'll take your suggestion and widen the pads.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2019, 07:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: Rerouter on December 30, 2019, 03:30:35 pmPad size is completely fine, it's size actually somewhere in mid-large size region. Also even actually small pad will pose an issue only on single layer PCB without hole metallization.Quote from: TERRA Operative on December 30, 2019, 02:53:51 pmWhat I can recommend is using a little bit less solder on some pads, capacitors on left side have some excessive solder on pads. With thinner solder it's easier to finely control it's amount. Also don't cut leads so close to solder joint. Leave at least 1 mm distance. You are cutting into solder thus disturbing solder joint which potentially may lead to cracks. Not a big issue an issue on 2+ layer boards but single layer boards are really prone to solder joint cracking.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 11:47:31 am
content: What is it about soldering that compels amateurs (and unskilled veterans) to produce soldering training materials showing subpar soldering quality? It happens over and over and over, despite the ready availability of good training materials by skilled professionals.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pmThey're... fine? Certainly not bad, but not at educator level.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pmWell, then even the improved pictures (in the updated original post) are not a good example. Many joints have too much solder, and there are lots of really bad joints that I assume are ones you didn't get to yet. And "blob" isn't what a good joint should look like. The proper term is a "fillet", whose proper appearance I describe below.Also, the quality of the photography is low, further reducing the educational value.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pmIf it's volcano-like (i.e. the fillet is neither concave or convex) then it's already too much solder. The correct amount of solder leaves aconcavefillet.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pmWhile true of leaded solder (which is all one should use when repairing devices originally manufactured with leaded solder), with lead-free solder, a satin finish is fully acceptable. Even and uniform, but not mirror shine. (A matte surface is unacceptable, though.)Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on December 28, 2019, 04:58:09 pmSmearing and protrusions are indicative of what I call "overcooked" solder. This is due to excessive dwell time and/or rework of the joint. It's caused by oxidation (which can be prevented by use of additional flux) and alloy contamination (as the PCB traces and components dissolve copper or gold into the molten solder, changing its composition). The latter is only preventable by working fast. Once the solder is contaminated in that way, the only solution is to suck it off and replace it (working quickly) with fresh solder. Also, when correcting a smeared or protruded joint, after sucking off the overcooked solder, the soldering iron tip must be freshly tinned, since the solder on it can be oxidized and/or contaminated, so you basically want to "rinse" the tip with a few changes of fresh solder before(Indeed, military/aerospace soldering standards specify for gold-plated components and boards that the lead or pad must first be wetted with solder, then the solder sucked off, before soldering the joint, to remove the gold plating so it doesn't contaminate the joint.)I hope this doesn't come off as too harsh, but you have learning to do. I cannot recommend enough the PACE video series tggzzz linked above. There is no finer tutorial on through-hole soldering, and much of what they explain also carries over to surface mount.Quote from: TERRA Operative on December 30, 2019, 02:53:51 pmNot bad at all. Better than the OP's, both in the joints and photography.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 04:15:23 pm
content: The OP is an enthusiastic 18yo.Based on his reply to my earlier post, he seems more likely to learn and improve than many posters on this forum.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2019, 04:34:13 pm
content: Fair enough. I'm certainly not criticizing anyone forhavingimperfect soldering skills (it takes practice, and we all have to start somewhere), only the need to share it prematurelyas a model for others. And I most certainly don't want to quash their enthusiasm!

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: TERRA Operative on December 30, 2019, 02:53:51 pmThat soldering is incredible, excellent job! I’m almost to that point, I just need to get better soldering tools. The ones I have are cheap and cause problems like insufficient temperature, bad construction, lack of insulation on the handle, and oxidation. It ruins my joints quite a lot as you can probably tell. I also need a bit more practice. Thankfully, I’m building a class AB amplifier for solder practice, and I will have my brand new soldering kit by then. Better tools = better quality soldering ability = more effective practice = better joints.But yeah, your joints are near perfect.Quote from: tggzzz on December 31, 2019, 04:15:23 pmThanks, I appreciate the kind wordsI indeed am eager to learn, I just have a tendency to deny my flaws and faults because I want to impress people like you - Because I look up to people like you. It’s a bad habit, but I’m trying to get rid of it. I know things through experience, you see. I can get my hands on something and do something, and point out from what I know how some things work or how to do things. But I don’t really get to learn the basis fundamentals of it too much because you can’t exactly experience the fundamentals until you know them in the first place. I know how to solder, how a joint is supposed to look, what you should and shouldn’t do... I can make a joint shiny enough to reflect the environment around it... But the small details, even down to tiny things like smearing and shape, I might overlook. I’m not a “details” person down to the precision scale that you are.Just know that I am indeed improving, and no matter what I may say, I take your feedback into consideration. I strive to learn and grow more as much as I possibly can.Quote from: tooki on December 31, 2019, 04:34:13 pmYou are right. And I understand what you are saying, both in your Great Wall of Text and in this quote. I should definitely not flaunt my skills and claim to know precisely what I’m doing when I in fact still have a lot to learn and do to improve. This is why feedback is crucial, I want to do a professional job and be able to know what I am doing wrong. Your feedback helped me learn proper terms in soldering, as well as what should be happening. I always welcome constructive criticism!Quote from: Shock on December 30, 2019, 03:38:55 pmThanks for your advice, this is very helpful! I’ll take a look at some references and see if I can practice to get my joints looking like that.-Sterling

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 07:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmDon't jump to that conclusion; a bad workman blames their tools.QuoteThat's more likely.Lookcarefullyat the Pace videos, their age, and the tools they had to use.QuoteKeep trying. Keep learning. Keep asking yourself how you can find ways to see how other people do better.Learning is a combination of understanding the fundamental theory, understanding the practical details, and practice. You needallthree.There's a cliche with a grain of truth: it takes 10000hrs to become a master of anything.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2020, 11:00:46 pm
content: Other than Paces channel, Marc Siegel has some old videos and John Gammell (Master IPC trainer) has some recent videos.https://www.youtube.com/user/paceworldwide/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/user/MrMarcSiegel/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/user/jkgamm041/videos

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 01:31:22 am
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmNah it's not the tools as such, well past a point anyway. While it can be hard to solder well with a cheap 'rug burner' pencil iron with no temperature control, the difference between say a Hakko FX-888 and my Hakko FM-206 is negligible when it comes to solder joint quality. It's true that crappy tools = crappy job, but once you have a half reasonable temperature controlled iron, it's mainly down to user skill, which comes with lots of practice.To solder well, you need practice, flux, a half decent iron, flux, practice, and a little more practice.Oh, and don't forget flux and some practice too.Don't give up! Pay attention to what is happening while you solder and experiment on some old circuit boards. Try a little less solder, a little more. Longer and shorter heating time, a different angle of the soldering iron, etc etc. Soon you'll get a feel for it and find your groove.Also don't forget to have fun too.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 10:23:33 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 01, 2020, 11:00:46 pmYep. The Pace videos on their and Siegel's channels are, IMHO, the best tutorials, despite their age. (Even if the "adventures in rework" is corny as hell!) But Gammel's SMD tutorials are brilliant.Another useful series is the one from TTC Avionics, which shows NASA-standard soldering. Now, the level of pedantry required for aerospace goes far beyond what's needed for ordinary applications, but nonetheless it's a great demonstration of slowing down and taking the time to do each step properly, rather than rushing through!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmWhat soldering tools do you have now? As others have said, once you've moved beyond a "fire stick" to a proper temperature-controlled soldering station, the differences between stations are minimal, with respect to how well you can solder with them. Even a $25 chinese Hakko clone will do fine, even if it's not as nice as a name-brand station.So while I fundamentally agree with tggzz that it's a bad workman who blames his tools, I do recognize that truly bad tools can be difficult or impossible to work with, or simply make the job so difficult that a pro can overcome the deficiencies, but a beginner cannot. (This is why I am opposed to the common approach of giving beginners overly cheap or hand-me-down tools. And not just physical tools. For example, as a computer professional, I know how to work around the limitations of a slow computer, while a beginner will get confused or frustrated and click again and again, exacerbating the problem and then being more confused when 10 new documents or browsers all open at the same time...)So yeah, if you have a truly bad iron, it will put a ceiling on how well you can solder. But if it's an OK tool, a better one won't matter.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmClassic engineer/scientist. Nothing wrong with that! I'm exactly the same.I want to understand how and why things work.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmWhich is why really good explanations are critical. For soldering, the Pace videos explain the fundamentals better than anyone else, by far. By which I mean that they not only explainwhatto do (which tons of people get right), but alsowhy(which almost nobody does). By explaining thewhy, it lets you understand the process much more, allowing you to identify and correct deviations when they occur.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmElectronics is a discipline where attention to detail is crucial (sometimes maddeningly so). So if this is something you want to get into, then attention to detail is something you will have to learn quickly. You have to identify components accurately, assemble things correctly (since a wrong connection or flipped-around component can fry your circuit), and be methodical in how you troubleshoot. Since the components are small and often delicate, it's a discipline that requires a delicate touch. (I recently helped an apprentice machinist solder a small board for a project they do, including making the enclosure. It was evident he was used to working fast and rough, very unlike the movements needed in electronics.)One of the examples of "maddening" detail is component datasheets. On the one hand, critical information is often mentioned seemingly in passing, somewhere in the text, rather than in the tables of key specs. And on the other hand, many datasheets cover multiple versions of a component, or closely related models. Typically, rather than having a table of differences between them, they typically just list the specs for each version. Often, the difference is super tiny, and so figuring out what the difference is means poring through the entire datasheet, looking for differences. It can be something as small as how they're packaged.(As someone who is trained in, and worked for years in, technical communication, there is SO much I would change on most datasheets!!!)Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmHumility is a good skill.But yeah, just keep learning with an open mind. The people here on eevblog are frequently blunt, but will give you honest feedback and real support, as long as it's clear you're putting in the effort, which you are.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 01, 2020, 05:50:05 pmThis one point cannot be emphasized enough. Obviously, beginners take longer to do it, which is normal, thus causing some imperfect joints. So it's instinct to go back and try to rework it to make it better, not realizing that it almost always makes it worse. When learning, resist the urge to rework joints that are merely not perfect. Instead, practice making tons of new joints, so that you learn to get them right the first time.When a non-practice joint is unsatisfactory and needs to be reworked, you may be able to get away with adding flux and reheating, but if possible, just suck off the existing solder and do it from scratch.Something that may be useful to you (and if not useful, then at least amusing) is seeing what NOT to do. So here are some of the many examples on youtube that are wrong in various ways:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKDfmGeSKmwP6SdGDHhu6hg/videos— impatient, doesn't give joints enough time to heat up; frequently goes back and reworks joints over and over, regardless of whether they needed rework or nothttps://www.youtube.com/user/filear/videos?view=0&sort=p&shelf_id=4— Way too much solder (using too-thick solder), not using the holes in solder lugs (wtf?), wrong tip size for work, etc.— nearly always way too much solder. Sloppy as hell SMD. (Anoutstandingchannel otherwise, mind you.)https://www.youtube.com/user/thebenheckshow/videos— before 2019 (when the channel changed ownership/host), e.g.— Ben Heck has a good eye for wire routing, but his soldering technique is atrocious: way too much solder, super sloppy SMD, grungy old oversized tools (get finer tweezers that aren't worn out, Ben!!), not enough flux, flood-and-suck SMD soldering, and lots of bad advice. (Also, whoever adds the little pop-up tips and tricks overlays is clearly not an electronics person, and frequently says things that are just plain wrong.)And of course, the absolute undisputedcoup de grâceof bad soldering, the worst the internet has ever seen so far:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/horrible-solder-job-buyer-wants-money-back-after-butchering-kit-with-his-skill/

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 12:22:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmThe Pace videos also show what happens when you get somethingwrong. Very few tutorials give that vital info.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 12:26:46 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 02, 2020, 12:22:56 pmVery good point!!Pace really did produce a pedagogic masterpiece in that series.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 11:07:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmThis crappy iron from Harbour Freight.(See attachment)Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmGlad I’m not the only one, that makes me feel loads betterBut yes, I am always eager to learn. I always have more room for improvement (I think I’ve proven that one quite clearly, haha), and I need to be willing to accept all manners of teachings, no matter how blunt.Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmAgreed. And yes, I’ve been checking out those PACE videos.Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmYep, and I am very patient when it comes to electronics. Sometimes I do a project that I am trying to complete as quickly as possible though, and of course I mess it up in a small way (as evident by solder smearing from the switchboard) that I overlook. I (having been a hobbyist since I was 7) know how to orient things correctly and read things properly... I can design and route a circuit properly... but of course patience is essential - My first functional prototype NES controller board I made failed because I had the IC in the incorrect configuration from misreading my schematic (which was clearly marked!!). I rushed, and as you said rushing will mess something up in the delicate art of electronics. I was in a hurry to finish reflowing my switchboard because I was doing it at my college campus, and I had only about an hour to hunt down parts and replace components. So yeah, rushing is a definite no-no. You are right in that I need to be more patient.Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmIndeed. Thanks for the kind words, btw.I’m starting to be more open about bluntness, mainly because I’m not a kid anymore and I need to start getting used to blunt honesty - It’s a part of everyday life. It is also concise in most cases, so it helps leave out unnecessary details when pointing out the flaws in ideas or actions.Besides, it is constructive criticism that can be learnt from and built upon.Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2020, 12:04:55 pmDefinitely. I didn’t know that specific technique until you guys informed me of it, and it makes sense to me now. Very helpful advice that I will have in my essential skills from now on. Thanks!Also, looking at that forum post, I fell a lot better about my soldering skills now... that soldering is disgusting. It looks like someone tried to use needle nose pliers to clip the leads from the components. The dry joints, cold joints, excessively long lead tailing, the smears... I might have nightmares from that. That’s nightmare fuel for engineers. And the fact the dude has a HAM license is disturbing... I’d run away as fast as I could if he offered to help me fix something. Yeck.I’ll check out those videos as well.Thanks again

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 12:59:03 pm
content: OK, given the crappy iron you had to work with, you did very good work.A real temperature-controlled soldering station, even a cheap one, will be much better.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 01:39:03 pm
content: Even a cheap ebay Hakko knockoff soldering station will be better than that rug burner.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 05:30:28 pm
content: A bit late to the party here, but I must also add - I'm impressed with the results you got given that you were using that Hazard Fraught Tools iron. This is definitely an instance where a good bit of the blame for the less-than-stellar result lies with the tool. Get a temp controlled station and some good chisel tips and you'll be amazed at how much easier it will seem and how much better your results will be when you can actually get some heat into the pad and component lead.Keep up the learning and good work.-Pat

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:07:52 pm
content: Dump the hazard-fraught soldering iron.If you want to limit your spending, for under $20 you can buy a Yihua 947 off Amazon for under $20; which is worlds better, with temperature control etc etc.

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:15:34 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 03, 2020, 05:30:28 pmTo both you and Tooki, thanks for the kind wordsI actually recently bought a new kit from Amazon that looks hopeful. I ordered a spool of leaded solder as well so I have new solder to work with. By the reviews, it looks like a good kit until I get enough money for a more professional setup. See attachment.It arrives tomorrow, and I’m very excited to finally use something good. Erm.. well.. better than the cheapie Chinese Hazard Fright rubbish.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 07:14:21 pm
content: Put a chisel tip in for through hole PCB work for sure. I can't recall the last time I used a conical tip - they stink for through hole work as until the connection wets there's almost NO thermal contact to heat the pad and lead. The flat side of a chisel tip will get things hot enough to melt the solder a lot faster, letting you get in and out more quickly giving less time for oxidation or overheating.-Pat

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 08:30:27 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 03, 2020, 07:14:21 pmI couldn’t agree more. I am baffled that anyone likes conical tips, as I can’t identify any situation where they’re superior to a chisel (or a more specialized tip), and thus even more baffled that some brands of soldering stations ship with conical by default.Quote from: WyverntekGameRepairs on January 03, 2020, 06:15:34 pmYou’re very welcome!It’ll be better, but not the same as a real station. (It seems unclear as to whether those cheap irons with a knob on the handle are actually temperature controlled or just a “light dimmer” style power control. The original Hakko of that style is temperature controlled, but the Chinese clones, who knows...) Even within the realm of single-heat fire sticks, there are big differences. My very first iron, when I was around 8 years old, was a radio shack one that looked much like your old one, probably 20W or so, and I never managed to make nice joints with it. Upgrading to the much nicer 15W radio shack one made a huge difference. But when I finally got a real soldering station a few years ago... omg, a revelation. Fire sticks tend to do well with one size of joint (since they have a fixed heat output), e.g. small iron for small joints, bigger one for bigger joints. A proper temperature controlled station (that is, with thermostatic regulation using a sensor in the tip), on the other hand, is self-adjusting constantly, so it’ll pump in more energy for bigger, heat-sucking joints, while remaining gingerly for small ones. Soldering with those seems effortless by comparison.For what it’s worth, if I were in the market for a soldering station today, I’d probably spend around $250 for a Pace ADS200 with a couple of tips. (That’s a station that will serve you for the next 25 years at least.) But if that’s out of your budget and you don’t have a birthday or graduation gift request coming up, even the $20 Chinese soldering stations will get you surprisingly good performance. And the ever-popular Hakko FX888D, while not state of the art as such, is still a great starter station. And the TD100 and TD80 open-sourceish irons, while they do have some small limitations, perform FAR above their price point, by all accounts.I hope you purchased name brand solder; cheap Chinese solder sucks, no matter what alloy it purports to be. (While leaded Kester is my favorite solder, I’d choose a name-brand lead-free over Chinese leaded any day for normal use. Don’t believe the anti-lead-free hysteria: while leaded is indisputably easier for work with, the difference is nowhere near as big as many people claim. With that said, old boards will not tolerate the higher temperatures of lead-free, so DO NOT use lead-free to repair any device that originally shipped with leaded!!!!)

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 11:41:28 am
content: About the only place I can see a conical tip being very useful is in old school hand wired chassis work with terminal strips and tube sockets and the like, where it can be poked into the hole in the terminal lug among the component leads, making contact with things that are then all around it. (Though even then I typically use a chisel). As to why all the cheap irons come with them, I suppose because being symmetrical along its length, it's the easiest and cheapest type to make.-Pat

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 04:14:45 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2020, 08:30:27 amPersonally, I like the small, pencil-like conical tips because they are great for tight joints in very small, compact, and awkward places where a chisel tip would typically not fit (I.e. a THT joint in between densely packed BGA chips), and even some medium and large SMD work. They are good for tinning small magnet wire as well. But that’s just me.Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2020, 08:30:27 amIt’s not a well known name I don’t think, but it has good reviews. See attachment.Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2020, 08:30:27 amEh, the hysteria on my part is the fact that lead free solder has more chemical additives to make it melt easier, and this can harm you faster than leaded solder can. The flux contains a very harsh reducing additive that can actually irritate the eyes and sinuses (as well as any other moist/wet membrane and tissue in your body), and the fumes are toxic. Leaded solder fumes are also pretty toxic, but since leaded solder does not contain harsh reducing additive in the flux, it is less potent and dangerous than lead free solder. It’s not just the melting point I’m worried about, but also the health affecting repercussions that come from the different solder types. As long as you work in a ventilated area, wash your hands, and keep your workspace clean, leaded solder is not as toxic as lead free. However, it is okay to use lead free solder for manufacturing if you are manufacturing something to be distributed to other countries that prohibit use of leaded solder in products, as long as you are ventilating the area really, really well and you are not in direct contact with the fumes. Lead free is always the best choice otherwise. Since good joints with leaded solder are shiny, it is easy to check your joints. But since lead free solder hardens with a dull, matte finish, it is hard to identify a bad joint unless you have worked with lead free solder for a very long time and really know what you are doing. Also, the flux used in lead free soldering actually has a shelf life since oxygen attacks the chemicals in it more easily. This oxidises the flux and renders it unusable and seriously worsens the efficacy of the core in the solder.Information obtained from:https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-disadvantages-of-lead-free-solder-vs-lead-solder-Sterling Ordes

author: WyverntekGameRepairs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 07:47:31 pm
content: I WAS VERY WRONG.My package with the new soldering iron and solder came in! I was really excited, especially because I now had a proper setup with proper solder... or at least I thought.The soldering iron kit was fantastic as expected (for its price, I mean), and functioned perfectly. It looks like it uses a dimmer controller to adjust the heater element temperature using a triode. It even actually has a little indicator that lights up when the iron is on. Very well built for only $18.But the solder I got.. Is absolute turd material. It is leaded, meaning it is supposed to harden with a shiny finish, not a layer of matte.. But alas. See attachment.I must have seen a different product with good reviews or something, or the people who buy this are ignorant, or worst case scenario I happened to get a bad batch. I’m going to ask for a refund, because this is not acceptable. The temperature was set correctly (max 230c, I set the iron to around 200c), and the tip was cleaned and tinned properly. The joint was completely clean. This solder is just really dirty by the looks of it, or it has little to no flux. Hell, even the tube of solder that came with the iron is better than this spool of lead-plated turd.You can see the desoldering job I did in one of the photos, and it is kinda sloppy. I tried my iron and did a quick desolder job to see how effective it is. I used the chisel tip, and clearly it took a bit of getting used to, but I got there eventually.Name of the crappy solder brand is B&C by the look of the logo. It also has WYCTIN in big letters at the bottom, dunno if that’s an identification number or model number. Origin of manufacture, surprise surprise, China.Contents are as follows:Sn - 60Pb - 40Flux - 1.8%