Should New Zealand get a new flag? What do you think? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 02:33:59 am
content: Voting starts in the New Zealand flag referendum today.Which one do you prefer? Why?International opinion deliberately invited…More info:http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/77492003/Voting-starts-in-New-Zealand-flag-referendumhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_flag_debateEdit: My 500th post

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 02:42:32 am
content: I very much liked seeing New Zealanders designing their new flag.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:05:58 am
content: I thought australia already changed their flag to make it more obvious they are not new zealandhttp://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/f/fic-spau.gifref:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_vs._Australia

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:11:29 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 03, 2016, 03:03:23 amAbsolutely agree with everything there.I too am surprised that Australia has not pushed its government to change its flag.Maybe you guys will be next...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:12:24 am
content: I found this one one site that was fielding suggestions.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:14:55 am
content: I'll be voting to change the flag in the referendum (yes, my flag in this forum is Australia because that's where I live at the moment; but I am certainly a Kiwi at heart! And eligible to vote).All the reasons I've seen for keeping the current flag are backwards-looking rhetoric that is barely relevant now, and will continue to become more and more irrelevant as time goes on. All the reasons I've seen for changing to a new flag are real, pragmatic reasons that will stay relevant over time. The choice is therefore quite obvious to me. I've heard that opinion polls are indicating that the majority of people are going to vote to keep the current flag, which I find enormously disappointing.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:15:09 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on March 03, 2016, 03:11:29 amWell if you follow the precedent that Canada started, just put a prominent piece of flora or fauna in the center and remove the Union Jack all together.So that would give you a plain flag with a Kangaroo or Koala in the center for Australia, and a Kiwi bird or something even more unique like the Tuatara. (The "lizard" that isn't a lizard)The Tuatara is more interesting in my opinion because it strongly resembles a lizard, but it evolved completely separate from lizards and is only related by means of it being a reptile.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatara

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:22:06 am
content: Tuatara...Ugly little sucker.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:32:52 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on March 03, 2016, 03:22:06 amFixed.If I didn't know any better I would have just assumed it was an iguana with a fat tail.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:36:06 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on March 03, 2016, 03:32:52 am

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:38:44 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on March 03, 2016, 02:42:32 amThat water is a bit muddied by the fact that the designer of the proposed flag lives in Melbourne.Anyway, I think we should get a new flag. I don't think it should be this one. The process has been flawed. The design is not a good one. It's a trade logo maybe, a flag marginally, and not sufficiently an improvement on what we have that we lock ourselves into it for the next 100 years.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 04:08:21 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 03, 2016, 03:38:44 amI agree with this. You should be able to stitch together a flag with nothing but a pair of scissors, needle and thread and an assortment of different coloured materials.Unfortunately people today are so spoilt by glam and glitter that a "traditional" flag would never get voted up

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 04:34:28 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 03, 2016, 03:38:44 amYou think a "No" vote won't lock us in to thecurrent(objectively worse) flag for the next 100 years?Quote from: AlfBaz on March 03, 2016, 04:08:21 amThe current and proposed new flags appear to be similarly difficult to make by hand?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 04:46:34 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on March 03, 2016, 04:34:28 amYes I do."We clearly didn't get the process right 10 years ago and the referenda failed, but the public clearly still wants a change, so let's try again with a better process."is not a hard sell.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 05:33:02 am
content: I've got to say I agree with the "change it, but not to this" sentiment.Quote from: Stonent on March 03, 2016, 03:15:09 amUnion flag, it's only the Union Jack at sea

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:21:15 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on March 03, 2016, 05:33:02 amhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_JackThe claim that the term Union Jack properly refers only to naval usage has been disputed, following historical investigations by the Flag Institute in 2013.https://youtu.be/LZHkmvOKPx0?t=5m40shttp://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/the-union-jack-or-the-union-flag/http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01jph1lGraham Bartram (born 18 July 1963), a British vexillologist who is, as of 2013, the secretary-general for congresses of the Fédération internationale des associations vexillologiques and the chief vexillologist of the Flag Institute, when interviewed on the BBC Broadcasting House programme on 13 October 2013, stated that either name was perfectly valid whatever the purpose. He stated that the theory that the flag should only be referred to as "Union Jack" when flown at sea was wrong.

author: MSO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:26:21 am
content: When attempting to disconnect a nation and a people from their heritage, a new flag is, frankly, just a cheap shot at history. However, changing the flag doesn't change a nation or its people. I'd suspect the motivations behind such a movement, especially when it tries to separate itself from one of the greatest civilizations ever in all of human history.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:31:34 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on March 03, 2016, 04:08:21 amTry to make the UK flag (all those crosses within crosses!) or the flag of the USA, with just that."Old Glory" might have been ok with just 13 stars,but if a latter day "Betsy Ross" was asked to make the current flag,she would go on strike.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:37:19 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 03, 2016, 06:31:34 amNobody ever said that the existing flag, or other flags, are not horrible as well. Just that the new one isn't sufficiently better.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:46:07 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 03, 2016, 03:03:23 amThe silver fern was a symbol of NZ before it was adopted by the All Blacks. (So I'm told - I'm not that oldI agree that the current design is too similar to the Aust flag, and the two are constantly being confused. Good enough for me to vote for a change.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 06:58:55 am
content: Flags are just so last century. Stick them in a box with the old cassette tapes and forget about them

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 07:08:15 am
content: Quote from: MSO on March 03, 2016, 06:26:21 amThe USA was quick to dump the Union Flag from the corner of their flag,replacing it with the 13 stars.The first USA flag was the "Grand Union Flag"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Union_FlagIn any case,the flag in the corner of Australian & NZ flags is not that which the first European settlers in either country arrived under.Their flag did not include the St Patrick's cross,only that of St George & St Andrew.The Union "Jack" in the "canton" does not reflect the reality of independence of either country.We have the same Sovereign as the UK---& that is,effectively,that!To reflect that,we really should have put the Royal Ensign in the corner,but that would have made for ugly flags.Having the "Union flag" in the corner has always rankled in the breast of some Australians,such as my father (born 1896),& mother,(born 1903).They were around when the current Oz flag was designed,& it was controversial then.I remember quite a few comments about "the postage stamp in the corner of a perfectly good flag",when I was growing up.The Royalists love it ,though & would probably scream,if we tried to get rid of it---they did for the Republican Referendum,& during previous talk about changing the flag.The NZ Royalist are probably screaming,now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 07:50:57 am
content: I like the new flag

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 08:24:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 03, 2016, 07:50:57 amThank you Dave.I like it too, but it is not the new flag yet...If it passes through I hope it is easy to change the profile flag for Kiwi registered users in the forum settings...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 08:56:08 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 03, 2016, 07:08:15 amAnd rightly so, after all you Aussies pinched what was "our" flag and just added another star.That's history and for any Aussies to make any comment over "our" proposed flag change is a bit precious.Debate over whether the proposed flag is suitable is way past worth discussing, we've each had a opportunity to offer our own design, vote for the most suitable 5, then another was addedand finally select the one to challenge our current flag so to suggest another or criticise what's been as good a process as any government would be likely to offer is justSeveral of my relatives fought for the UK, remember it wasn't our scrap we were just dragged into it as were all the Commonwealth countries.For the historical theft of our flag and the ongoing confusion over the AU and NZ flags are enough reasons to support a change which I strongly do.Bring it on.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:01:10 am
content: Things must be good in New Zealand if you're having a referendum about the flag.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:12:28 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 03, 2016, 09:01:10 am

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:20:13 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 03, 2016, 09:12:28 amBrilliant. Someone give that man a scope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:26:23 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 03, 2016, 09:20:13 amThat man is our famous John Clarke aka Fred Dagg, who resides in Aus now and no you Aussies can't claim him, he's ours.He was massive here in the 70's & 80's and I've still got his first vinyl album.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:44:57 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on March 03, 2016, 03:12:24 amMy wife gave me a sheepish grin,And yes, she wears a sheepish skin.In fact, she is a sheep herself,And I don't want, no one else!I bonk my sheep every night,I'm on a pure sheep skin diet,I sheer her down every spring,There's no complaints, we dance and sing!If you want a good time it wont be cheep,Such is the quality of my sheep.You'll have no time for ducks and cows,Just try a sheep, try it now!.......Unfortunately I can't find the Hale and Pace New Zealand sheep farmer skits on youtube.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 09:56:06 am
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on March 03, 2016, 02:42:32 amYeah they can do without the Union Jack. Still why isn't there a Kiwi on the new flag? What is with the 'feather'?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 10:18:33 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 03, 2016, 09:29:56 amWe can't use the silver fern flag as our national flag while it's copyrighted by the All Blacks. It's that simple.

author: wblock
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 02:12:07 pm
content: There is no reason to look at anything else:https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/3127The explanation is what really cinches it.

author: rickv14623
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 02:26:55 pm
content: Thinking the change would be good BUT not to that design.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 06:53:16 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 03, 2016, 06:21:15 amThanks for that. I think I've some reading to do and am looking forward to letting people know when it comes up lol

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 07:57:58 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 03, 2016, 10:18:33 amIt's used by many different teams in NZ. Apparently the AB's trademarked it, went to court and lost.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyathea_dealbata"But the fern belongs to all of us so I thought it was a pretty rude application," he said. "It's a victory for common sense."

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 08:05:04 am
content: Quote from: rickv14623 on March 03, 2016, 02:26:55 pmWe are saying the same about one D. Trump old chap.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 08:28:13 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 04, 2016, 08:05:04 am

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2016, 03:45:14 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 04, 2016, 08:28:13 amBoth of you are fired.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 08:06:24 am
content: New Zealand should become a republic as they ditch the union jack. Changing their flag is as half arsed as giving French terrorists a very early release from prison. But removal of the union jack has to be a good thing.It is long overdue in Australia. Why? Maralinga. Monte Bello Islands. Emu Field. Christmas Island. It will be a good day indeed when we give pompous old moneybags and her family the royal flick.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 11:16:25 am
content: I don't like the proposed design. It looks really nice sure but as mentioned in the thread already flags should use simpler geometries, at most a kiwi (not the fruit of course), something easy to draw by everyone.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 11:31:26 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 05, 2016, 08:06:24 amI wish there was a chance of us getting rid of them. I fail to understand why being the descendants of mass murderers who stole big things like countries makes you special and should have your family worshipped but the rest of us are meant to pretend our antecedents who stole small things like a loaf of bread or killed one person in a brawl didn't exist and/or be ashamed of them.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2016, 11:35:44 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on March 05, 2016, 11:31:26 amAs kids, every school had a picture of the Queen on the wall and we were brainwashed into thinking she was some sort of superior being. We were forced to sing and march to God Save The Queen and if I did not march to perfection (I was flat footed), I was punished. I don't understand why these royal buffoons of pompous pageantry think their blood is more pure than their inferiors, and why we were forced to ask God to save her, be victorious in her battles, and to give her a long life to reign over us.We had a referendum to ditch the monarchy in the late 90's. It was rejected only because the government here stuffed it up. They had no proposed model of what would replace it and people here have an inherent distrust of politicians. At the next referendum, if the government actually devises a decent replacement system for a republic up front before the referendum, we will become a republic at long last.I can see the monarchists now, looking back on the flag changing in the distance as their boat heads back to the mother country, as they sing God Save The Queen with tears running down their eyes.I suggest the public holiday we take off to celebrate Her Majesty's Birthday (when it is not even her birthday) is thrown our and replaced with "Heroes Day" - a day we take off to celebrate great Australians whether they be alive or dead. One is chosen each year from a discipline such as science, engineering, sport, media, public service (except politicians), medicine, charity, etc. The disciplines are rotated each year.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 01:00:12 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 03, 2016, 06:21:15 amWhen choosing between a, doubtless garlic munching, Francophile secretary-general of a froggy sounding institute and the, proudly British, Billy Piper on the correct nomenclature for a British flag I know who I'm going to believe.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 01:39:45 am
content: I'm never in favour of libtards running around and changing things of historical significance.It is always some bunch of penniless SJW students who want to pull down statues and rewrite history, yet they are never going to feel any affinity towards their country or their flag.Turn your back for five seconds and they'll have invited everyone in Africa to stay, because they lacked iPads or looked a bit sad or something.It would be like the UK changing its flag because nobody bothered to add a tree to represent the Druids.Flags are a western idea, Eddie Izzard covers the essentials:

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 02:42:14 am
content: Quote from: bitslice on March 06, 2016, 01:39:45 amDoes this bloke look like a penniless student?https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRusuG6PbEU8Vr1i3GAON-Xf0oi8Qr-iGT23QxXKEiRG-K3usZVkwRepublicanism in Australia is an idea which encompass the whole gamut of politics.He may be a "Libtard" in Oz terms,but remember in Australia "Liberal" means "Tory".The people you are thinking of are what we call "small L" liberals.Canadians changed their flag,& they are still just as rabidly devoted to their country as anyone else!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 09:48:26 am
content: Many don't know that Australia changed it's national anthem as recently as 1984

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 09:53:04 am
content: I venture to suggest most people born after 1980 - for starters.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2016, 10:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2016, 09:48:26 amWhat, you mean it's not Waltzing Matilda anymore?

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2016, 07:58:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2016, 09:48:26 amTry as recently as around 1986. The feminist militia lobbied to get the lyrics changed from "Australia's sons let us rejoice" to "Australians all let us rejoice". In any case it is a pretty crappy anthem. Boring. And what's this word "girt?" No-one uses it any more.A DERIVATIVE OF THIS ONE WOULD BE MUCH BETTER...or this one...or this one, written by Peter Allen, that even foreign celebrities sing with joy. I predict this WILL be our national anthem within 30 years...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 08:46:44 am
content: The results are in and New Zealand has voted to keep the existing flag.A total of 1,200,003 people (56.6 per cent) voted to retain the ensign, with 915,008 (43.2 per cent) in favour of the silver fern design.http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/the-flag-debate/78209685/Live-New-Zealand-flag-referendum-preliminary-resultOh well, good thing I didn't have any money on it.C'mon Aussies, your turn now.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 08:56:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2016, 09:48:26 amMost people can barely remember how their own national anthem goes, let alone the Aussie one.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:03:42 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 24, 2016, 08:46:44 amYep, we have to let them win one every now and again

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:10:59 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 24, 2016, 09:03:42 am

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:18:34 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 24, 2016, 09:10:34 amYou reminded me of something that occurred to me during the latter stages of the process.There will be some who vote for change for whatever reason.The remainder are:Some who will will never vote for change - traditionalists.Some who don't like the design and so vote against it. <-- these people were the balance of power.My observation was that there were many complaints about the lack of design nous early on in the process.The selection of the flags which were voted on was made by a committee of kiwi identities as opposed to designers.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:23:13 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 24, 2016, 09:10:59 amI'm watching Russell Crowe playing an Aussie on Sky at the moment. Not sure who won that one

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:39:00 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on March 24, 2016, 09:18:34 amYou left out:Some whom vote against anything a governing political party proposes.(political self interest)And those whom complained about the offered designs were just too lazy, tired or stupid to offer a design of their own.Sorry, that doesn't wash with me, we each had a chance to offer a design, so no good grizzling about those flags that were selected if you didn't get off ones arse and participate.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 09:44:14 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 24, 2016, 09:39:00 amYep of course you are right. The constant crap of those who want everything on a platter.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:18:08 am
content: The Kiwi's should have listened to my vote , a flag with a Sheep and a pair of Gum Boots.Seriously though reading posts back a bit on the aus anthem , They had to get rid of Waltzing Matilda because many people that do not study history would not know that Waltzing Matilda is actually a dig or knock against not only the government/politics but also on society itself at that time , especially the Coppers .Same goes for the story of the "Romantic" Swagman stories , its really only now or recently they be romantic old stories but back in those days they were the uncared for dregs of the wars and poverty and of course the dregs of the system , a Dero , if it was not for the Kidman Empire thousands would have been ded (many did die , hunger/drinking/suicide and many were found on the sides of the road ded out bush) and in fact the Kidman Empire made the governments of the day look like real stingy uncaring dickwits in which they were , and therefore Kidman was actually the impetus or start of social reform and the good ole Dole or social payments , Kidman had a law , at least 1 feed a day if asked or not work or not , the governments at the time only reacted to what was going on , not out of a caring fairness attitude but because they looked like Stooges , same old same old , and all Imo !Romantic .

author: MikeW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 10:44:42 am
content: This chap gives an interesting talk on flag designhttps://youtu.be/pnv5iKB2hl4

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 12:30:52 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 03, 2016, 09:26:23 amThanks for sharing him. I've grown up with his stuff and still look forward to Thursday night just before the 7 o'clock news on the ABC.John Clarke and Murray Ball should be dubbed NZ national treasures.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 07:33:31 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on March 24, 2016, 12:30:52 pmQuite right, along with one other, our dear parted comedian Billy T.How he poked so much shite al all in sundry and got away with it was a wonder.TV's showing re-runs of his shows ATM here.