Bought new Siglent SDS2104X Plus, may have received open box scope, WWYD? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 02:04:28 am
content: I bought this new scope, and what I received isclearlyappeared to me to be open box. The original Siglent tape was cut and replaced with generic brown tape. The plastic bag that surrounds the scope was torn open (I don't know why; it's clearly already open at one end -- but it has jagged rips where one side was torn open). The packing material inside the box looks wadded up rather than professionally packed.Should I be concerned about this? Is there a way for me to test the scope for damage? Is there a way for me to determine how many hours the scope has been used for?What would you do?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 02:17:25 am
content: Who did you buy it from?

author: ekoloski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 02:39:16 am
content: First question, did you take any photos to document the condition this scope arrived in?Second, are all the accessories present and accounted for?I don't know if there's a power on hours counter or anything, but there may be a built in self test that can assess the signal path and basic functionality.It seems unlikely that a reputable seller would open the box and re-package it in such a way. Regardless, if this scope was advertised as new, I'd contact them to arrange a replacement.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 03:25:19 am
content: We open every box and clear tape them up after:Checking it has latest FW and if not installing it.Checking, compensating and assigning all probes to channels.Set clock to NZ timezone.Installing any ordered or free options. (promotions)Placing company sticker onto instrument.Adding latest factory product guides.However we have had Customs inspected products arrive, often opened at the bottom and sometimes box contents in disarray.....instrument returned to box upside down.We always try to present an instrument just as the factory has supplied it however when HW options are ordered at the same time some changes on how things are packed needs be made to fit everything into the carton.Rather than use another tape that can impact on first impressions we got to great length to ensure we have good stocks of clear tape and if necessary also genuine Siglent tape although there is rarely any need to use it.Now some weeks back these scopes had a significant promotion with reduced cost and some free options, 6 IIRC which do take some effort to install which might explain why the box had been opened.If it were me, I'd send a please explain email to the supplier.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 03:54:33 am
content: Okay, maybe I jumped to conclusions assuming it is an open box item. Given what Tautech has said about his processes, maybe my dealer does the same thingI have sent the dealer an email, though it is likely after hours (they are East Coast, I'm West Coast) and I wouldn't expect to hear back from them until Monday. We'll see what they say. It is an authorized dealer, TEquipment, whom I've bought things from in the past without issue, and who to my knowledge has a good reputation. What struck me was that the contents did not look like a dealer had unboxed and repackaged them, in particular how the plastic bag had been torn open.Software version is 1.3.9R12, FPGA version 2021-07-06, and hardware version 02-04. Can someone confirm if that's latest?Also, is it normal for the probes, manual, power cord, and other accessories to come in a separate box? This might lend more evidence to what Tautech is suggesting, that the dealer removed the accessory box during a checkout of the scope, and then opted to leave the box separate for shipping.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 04:05:04 am
content: I'm not sure if you should worry, but I've purchased 2 scopes from them and that isn't normal for TEquipment.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 04:15:30 am
content: Also, the accessory box contained two sets of red and black banana leads (one set with banana jacks on one end and alligators on the other, one set with banana jacks on one end and spade terminals on the other). They look like something that would go with a power supply, and have no purpose being in an accessory box for an oscilloscope.All of the accessories that are supposed to be there appear to be there.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 07:35:26 am
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 08, 2023, 03:54:33 amActually few are really engaged to do what we do as most are dealing with larger numbers and just can't offer such service or concern about offering the best first impression.QuoteYeah that's not normal.QuoteNothing like it !It's obvious TE don't go to the trouble we do or V1.5.2R3 would be installed rather than a version nearly a year old.All versions are here:https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=53QuoteYes for this model all accessories are in a 3 compartment box which fits quite snugly down the rear of the scope when in the box.QuoteNo, the accessories box should fit in the big box along with the scope.Quote from: smbaker on April 08, 2023, 04:15:30 amThose leads do certainly sound like those shipped with PSU's and have no business in the box with scope accessories !Click the Accessories link here to see what is included with the scope.https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/Certainly a please explain from TE is expected however to many staff this is just a job when instead the industry deserves better from its suppliers. Maybe they have staffing issues ?

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 07:51:25 am
content: Everybody seems to have staffing issues right now. Can't even get a burger without running into staffing issues.The calibration certificate is dated June/2022. How old are the calibration certs typically on a new unit? Given that the accessories box had been removed from the scope box, whomever shipped it must have (orshould have) known it was not new.The question is, what will their proposed remedy be? ... and whatshouldthe remedy be? Clearly returning the scope is an option I could insist on as it's not what I paid for.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 08:42:38 am
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 08, 2023, 07:51:25 amProduction is such lead times dictate how long new products sit the the warehouse before they are shipped and for us most orders require a wait for production to build some of the units we need, nothing special but just due to demand.Consider products sit 2 weeks before dispatch then several weeks sailing which for the US markets would mean a trip through the Panama canal and then up the river to the great lakes and onto Ohio....or would they be trucked or railed from the east coast......IDK and really have no idea however it's conceivable that product doesn't arrive in NA HQ for 3 months where one quarter of the years Cal has already gone !Siglent recognised this issue a few years back and added a 180 day extension to Cal certs for time they might be in shipping or storage before sale:https://siglentna.com/service-and-support/calibration-certificate/Some X Plus received a couple weeks back had early Jan 23 Cal dates.If I were you I would contact principal's of TE and express your concerns their staff are shipping second rate impression of the quality their company is otherwise renown for....or there is some other good reason.Who knows the real history of that unit, it could be a return for whatever reason or a repair of a warranty replacement however what really matters is does it meet spec, the Cal cert is your only reference that this unit meets datasheet spec.You can also check if the SN# and cal cert dates match with this serial # analysis guide:https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/siglent-serial-number-format/Regardless, this is about the service provided by an established supplier who IMO has slipped up and their staff has let them down .......or some other reason why the package was opened before you received it.WWYD, I'd call them and speak to the boss.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 02:36:51 pm
content: You might also look at the shipping label tracking number and see if you can trace where it was shipped from (which may not match the return address) since TEquipment does dropship from other suppliers if they are out of inventory or someone they work with has it closer. In any case, just call or e-mail them. They do seem a bit disorganized in a 'hair-on-fire' sort of way at times, but they've always completely resolved any minor issues that I've had--none of which were actually their fault. They won't open, inspect or update units likeTautechdoes, so I'd expect a sealed box from them.Absent any other information on the provenance of the unit in question, I'd ask for a replacement. If it has been returned, there may be an 80% chance that it is fine, a 10% chance it actually has some obscure fault that you won't find in testing and a 10% chance it has been dropped or otherwise acquired some latent damage that won't show up for a while. Open box units should be disclosed and sold for at least a nominal discount.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 03:08:19 pm
content: Thanks everyone, I'll see what TEquipment says on Monday and report back. I don't need one more thing to do, and exchanging this is going to be an inconvenience, but it is what it is.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 08:11:08 pm
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 08, 2023, 03:08:19 pmHave your booted it ?What options are installed ?Check if any replacement will be supplied with the exact same options.Explanation:Nov, Dec 22 these were on promotion and shipped with the additional decodes for free and there are still some of those in the marketplace.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 01:02:00 am
content: Yeah, I'm aware of the promotions and discounts (which unfortunately I missed out on...)The scope did not have any options enabled, just a bunch of "temporary" with a limit of "30" applied to them. When I powered it on, there were two channels (1 and 2) enabled, and channel 2 was selected, so that must be the configuration that it was left in. I ran the various self tests (screen, keyboard/LEDs) and ran the auto-calibrate. I also tried all of the channels against the built in test points, and each channel seems to be working fine. Other than being "got into" by persons unknown and the calibration certificate being 10 months old, I don't see anything obviously amiss.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 01:52:42 pm
content: When you say "speak to the boss", is there a particular person you have in mind? So far I've exchanged emails with someone named Vicente.Scott

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 02:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 10, 2023, 01:52:42 pmThe guy that has responded here on EEVBlog before is Evan Cirelli, VP and co-founder. Are you getting an unsatisfactory response so far?

author: phs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 03:25:50 pm
content: We have dealt quite a bit with Tequipment over the years and everything we received from them has been factory-sealed (as far as it's possible to tell, anyway). This is one of the reasons we order from them. Personally, I don't want _anyone_ mucking around with equipment before we get it, other than, possibly, a factory-authorized service center, and in that case, it had better be for a very good reason. We've had issues in the past with equipment that had clearly been re-packaged after leaving the factory.In fact, we recently ordered a Siglent SSA3021X Plus directly from Siglent, because they had a special deal, and we thought they would surely be sending us a "fresh" instrument that had not been molested in any way. Unfortunately, when we received it, it was clear that it had been opened after leaving the factory. There was double tape, and the first layer had been cut, there was no screen protector, and it didn't have that "factory-fresh" smell of lovely out-gassing plastics and fresh solder, haha.But this came directly from Siglent, so surely it would be a perfect instrument, right? Nope! The front end on this thing was all but dead, and it was almost impossible to see any trace of a signal on it. (We have a number of Siglent SSA's, so it's not like these instruments are new to us.)Thankfully, Siglent was very apologetic, and immediately set up an exchange -- even sending out a "new" one before we had sent the original one back. They did open the box on the replacement unit, after asking our permission, to take out the user manual and power cord so that we didn't have to send those back, but assured us it was a brand-new instrument.When we received it, the replacement unit did have a screen protector (which was a major pain to remove, by the way, leaving a residue all over the screen that had to be cleaned off, but at least it was there), and even smelled factory-fresh, ahhhh.So, if it were me, I would definitely return it for either a replacement or refund. Time is money, and what if there’s something wrong that you aren’t able to identify until you’re in the heat of a deadline and then discover an issue?A number of years ago we had to return a brand new instrument to Tequipment that, though received in fresh packaging and working properly, didn't perform one of the analysis functions we required. The data sheet for this instrument didn't mention this limitation, and Tequipment let us purchase the next model up the line, and told us they'd be selling the returned one as an "open box" unit. Sure enough, that instrument did show up as an open box item at a reduced price -- as is the proper way to do business. There are a number of reasons “open box” sales exist!Best of luck to you, and I hope any of this helps anyone dealing with similar situations.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 03:27:58 pm
content: I don't think I'd call it "unsatisfactory". They've apologized, said it should not have happened, said the customer most likely ordered it by mistake, opened it, and returned it. Said thatit is new*. They've offered to refund or replace it after they've received it back, and given me until 5/6/2023 to decide. This all seems like a reasonable accommodation on returning and replacing the scope.There is no "screen protector" on the screen, should there have been? Additionally, I discovered two of the probes had been opened, as the twist-ties were missing. Two probes had their twist-ties and were presumably not opened.Mentally I'm struggling with the desire to just keep the thing rather than the hassle to send it back and deal with a multiple weeks delay. I played with it over the weekend, itseemsto work fine.* for some definition of "new", I guess ?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 03:33:59 pm
content: Quote from: phs on April 10, 2023, 03:25:50 pmAre you sure you were supposed to remove that?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 03:37:05 pm
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 10, 2023, 03:27:58 pmIt's a personal choice but if it works fine and isn't damaged then you could do the planet a favor and keep it. Think of it as a free set of power leads.(maybe even ask for a discount...)

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 04:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 10, 2023, 03:37:05 pmI was kinda hoping they'd have just offered, and I wouldn't have to ask.Oh, well, I have time to think about it.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 04:56:44 pm
content: Quote from: smbaker on April 10, 2023, 03:27:58 pmThe point isn't that the customer returned it, but rather that it was sold and shipped to you in that state. It's probably fine, but you should at least do a complete inventory compared to the packing list if you haven't already. How long a delay would replacement entail? 3 days each way? I assume they'll cover shipping both ways?

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 06:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 10, 2023, 04:56:44 pmMy last three TEquipment purchases have been 7 business days + 2 weekend days. They didn't say, but I would certainly hope they'd cover all shipping expenses.

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 01:09:08 am
content: Any good WWYD thread ought to terminate with a WDID ("WhatdidI Do").I evaluated the scope for about a week. I couldn't find anything wrong with it. It seemed like a nuisance to send it back and a waste of resources for it to go all the way across the country, so I decided to keep it. Technically I still have a couple weeks time remaining to make my decision, but unless the thing bursts into flames, I don't see there being a problem.I did contact TEquipment about a discount, and while it took a little back and forth, we did manage to negotiate about $130 off, which is approximately what an open box scope would have been priced at. It's not really about the money, and generally I'll choose new over open-box 100% of the time, but circumstances led to where I ended up.SDS2104X Plus is a really nice scope compared to what I had been using (DS1054Z) and was already a big help in my current project. I'm really happy with the choice in scope, it was either this or the Rigol MSO5000. I have to admit, I had really wanted independent controls for all four channels like the MSO5000 has, but on the other hand the touch UI of the Signlet is proving to be pretty convenient and intuitive to use. I find myself more easily using more advanced features.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 01:14:58 am
content: Pleased you like the scope.As some closure I spotted this from Dave a few days back:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testequity-bought-tequipment-for-$55m/msg4811972/#msg4811972

author: smbaker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 04:47:57 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 18, 2023, 01:14:58 amYeah, I saw that too last week. An interesting development, and will be interesting to see what impact (if any) it has on priorities. I did feel like in the past they put forth a good effort at courting the enthusiast community.