New Product Idea:.      How about a 'reflective lens' for various applications ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 05:27:55 pm
content: Hey there!Seems like, my 'permanent' home here,...in the DODGY SUBJECTs, but this might be an idea.Suppose, a nano-scale device is fabricated, resembling simple window 'blinds', as reflective elements. I'm thinking, perhaps at nanoscale the optical distortions, caused by an alternating deflecting grid, alternating with open views (of subject).The array would be almost exactly like 'Venetian Blinds', but where each horizontal slat is coated reflective.The final image probably most likely would be distorted, or 'scrambled', on a regular-periodic basis, but only in a bit of 'local' or miniature sense. Some optical monitoring tasks might be tolerant, of image distortions, such as an application as an optical FIRE Prevention instrument.Any Inventors, out there ? It's a fun and rewarding set of tasks, by the way, (if you can survive the stress, LOL).Viewing my drawing, the window blinds have made heat wave turbulence visible...Not sure of exact explanation, but probably some optical waves interfering with each other. The heat, off that black painted car top, is visably producing the turbulence, for a few inches upwards, off of the hot roof. That made my start;. How about making a nanoscale copy, of Venician Blinds, in an oval lens shape, but using reflection rather than bending via some optical glass.Perhaps, also, another so-called 'Venician Lens' would be in vertical elements, complementing the usual horizontal configuration...Both images to be further processed with some image software.Pretty wild, but can this work ?Thanks, for attention...- - Rick B. (Hayward, CA)

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 08:46:39 pm
content: Thanks for the Wiki reference, that's the kind of thing I'd heard about. I think, maybe existing micro-mirror arrays are designed as 'broadside' lightpath reflectors... where an array, of long rectangular 'slat' mirrors, maybe, would be used in an extreme, low angle of reflection. So, those yellow'ish window blind slats are reflecting, but perhaps more so it's a reflection off of the 'shiney' surface, at very low incident light angles.What I'm seeing, besides the car top heat flow, up through the air (probably some interference causing enough light ray cancellation / reinforcement), I'm also seeing, up higher through the blinds, is the tree image has all kinds of distortion and 'moving' or shifting around...In other words not a normal view out the window. My picture depicts this: It appears that the slats, in the opened slat window shade, create a vertical disruption, while also forming a (chaotic) 'lens'.Wondering, about testing, using each individual slat adjustment. Plus, another slat system going vertical in parallel layout, just like the first blinds, but rotated 90° degrees, for a 'egg crate' like structure.Shii, that WIKI listed a lot of material...for me to learn.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 09:02:57 pm
content: They are used a lot in projectors, istr both Dave and Mike(selectricstuff) have done teardowns featuring these.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 10:04:32 pm
content: Yes, I'm aware of some of what's out there, mirror arrays. However, I'm wondering (out loud) about the 'glancing blow' specifically, where the angle(s) of incidence are extremely low...like less than a few degrees, off of horizontal.I remember something about nuclear power and research using something resembling that, for guiding fast moving particles, to a 'focus' region.In my case, just assuming the thing can be round, (like the usual glass lens face), but a square 'egg-crate' config might work also.It's physics related, but I've always noticed, how quickly Electronics relates, to construction / operation of optical systems, (which is, partially, why this post in Dodgy section).

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 11:25:00 pm
content: It's not a perfect thing, but arouses curiosity. The slats in my window Venician blinds are mostly open, but definitely block some 1/3. The light that does get through might even be upside-down, in each of those regular slices. A bit like the old-school Kaleidoscopes,it is believable that these slices of visible landscape are upside-down, after the 'glancing' reflection, and that being right next to a visible slice that's oriented normally. Those two images, slightly superimposed and moving, create similar look, as regular tree leaves create, moving, shifting shadows on the ground.Not sure about image magnification issues, but certainly the collection of image in 'slices' could be controlled, by way of angle and opening size (of each slice, in the hanging blinds).Probably, many applications that don't necessarily need a 'clear' image, such as for simple motion detection, plus there possibly could be software helping do that 'special' catagory of remote sensors.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2022, 11:28:11 pm
content: (picture showed the 'straight thru' mode, vs usual mirror array reflecting light to a 'focus' region, seen in lower schetch).

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 05:21:42 pm
content: Dodgy Subject, for sure...But very curious!Posting today, as I start to investigate, the photo shows Venician Blinds appearance, from outside the garage. Looking fairly closed up, which is notable because my impression, looking out from inside, was of a 'mostly open' set of those horizontal openings. So...one tentative conclusion is that much of the interior (view) is actually containing UPSIDE DOWN sweeps, of outside scene.Pulling head down, while staring out, the outdoor scene does this little, periodic thing: An image slice moves down, as normal while observer moves head and eyesight downward, however, an object (red flower top) suddenly POPs into view, from the slat opening next above. Then, this periodic thing repeats, (while continuing to orient head lower). The neighbor's flower image travels downward, a bit, then POP : it appears to jump, yet again. This repeats, slat by slat, as observer lowers the vantage towards that window.Very interesting, and somewhat contradicting to expectations. If someone can tame this thing, might be opportunity for a novel approach, as an 'Eggcrate Superlens', for remote optical sensors, that can tolerate the localized scrambling of image pixels (vertically in this discussion).Thanks for listening!- - Rick

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 05:28:32 pm
content: Here is another camera shot, where the lower 'slats' allow an opening for light, but other portions look almost completely closed. I made sure, first, that this unexpected result was with a set of Venecian blinds that is in good shape...all slats are parallel, so it's has more to do with observer's vantage angle and distance.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 03:52:32 pm
content: Wow, thanks, your reply is going to take me some time to read, as I'm only knowing various basics about optics...I prefer to slow down, read your stuff and let that sit, couple days even, so, please wait a bit. (I was born 2 weeks late, even).Actually, the bulk of my thoughts right now are on the (Invention) process itself, plus not currently doing specific product development; any IP stuff from me would likely be more directly Electronics. Thanks,- - Rick B.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 04:09:19 pm
content: Here is my, almost totally speculative, image, of a nano-scale Glancing Blow Reflective 'Egg Crate' lens.Slats are horizontal, in front, and vertical, in back layer.Intended for nano-scale 3-D printer. (Printer W/B available on market, June 2032...)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 05:18:04 pm
content: This is a well developed technology. One name for the fundamental theory behind it is "Statistical Optics". Holograms are one output of the area. Another is the ability to focus radiation including light using planar regular structures. Variations of the theme are used in fabricating the masks used in semiconductor fabrication.The math required is accessible to most engineering graduates and many applications become computationally intense.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 06:18:22 pm
content: That's, actually where I got the initial idea! Somewhere 20 years ago, I had heard of that 'glancing blow' angle was part of some (fast) moving particle lab devices, doing a lens effect by changing various paths, maybe of radioactive particles.Still, though, might be some novel approach that can supplement what's already out there, in newer applications. Right now, I'm trying to 'decode' some of the optical distortions, coming thru my front window.Looks like a 'stripe' of upsidedown image, butted up against a stripe of regular orientation. Part of mystery is how that image field should, really, be a much narrower 'stripe' of outside image, observable from inside. But it's not. (That's gonna bug me, until figured out). Ever watch the TV show 'MONK' ? His trademark move seemed to be that sort of instinctual reaction:Why,...do things (image) appear THAT way ?

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 07:22:30 pm
content: Creating a "lens" in front of a window sounds like a fire hazard to me...

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 08:15:52 pm
content: It's not perfect, but this latest diagram depicts the issue mentioned, of conflict between 'expectations' and observation:First off, the blocked portions, looking thru, are way way off, too small by (appearing) to block approx 1/3 of the outside scene. Examining the blinds, they seem mostly shut, expectation is of seeing 2/3 blocked, with a small 'stripe' of 30 % (ok, 1/3), of outdoors visible in each stripe opening...Even more intriguing, is that there is a thinner dark line running through the middle, of each view. Too subtle for my interpretation, but I'm leaning towards thinking that the thin line is at the border where the 2 image stripes meet, there in the void between slats.I think that the 'upside-down' depiction is an illusion of sorts, as you are actually viewing a reflection, not an opening thru the slats.There's some other interference effects, diagonal stripes, (off the car image), and PLUS; that one effect only seems to happen at certain times of day, with angle of sunshine.Gotta go, for now; I actually, have 'Lawn and Weeds' duty today, as part of rental lease negotiations.'Turf Butcher', I should name myself.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2022, 03:27:06 am
content: Here is a hypothetical result, showing that, on a bigger scale the image has all the 'original' pixels, of the view through the Venician Blinds, scrambled, slightly, but only within the small structure coresponding with the disruption of the blinds. Plus, I believe, when point of view is level, the underside of each vane is what is reflecting.This vertical offset scrambling is actually acting on a green tree leaves against each other, producing a mess on the fine (vertical) scale, but for the most part an intact image, especially in horizontal direction.Point is, with proper manipulation of rotation position, those 'vanes' could be placed, to result in a lens-like focus. OR, in some cases that 'image' being scrambled on a small scale, could just be used as-is, in applications such as Fire / Spark optical sensing (for alarms).Another, interesting application, could do some movement detection, as various portions of the imaged scene will 'Pop' in and out of the final image, responsive to actual smooth movement (of subject) ina 'kind-of' EDGE DETECT.So it's worth exploring those complex little 'distortions' that we often overlook, as mere window disruption.Such musings might be better explored, in UV or in Infrared aspects, (where glass light bending doesn't do as well, as reflective elements).