First AWG for hobbyist - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Powernun
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 07:39:11 pm
content: Hi,I am here yet again for equipment advice, the advice I have received this far has been invaluable for my first power supply and scope. I am now looking to complete my starter home lab with an AWG. I work mainly on Arduino type projects (especially IoT) and in the future planning to work on audio. I am in the UK looking at stores in Europe. I am looking for:Budget:up to £300Sampling rate:At least 100MSa/sMax frequency:At least 10MHz for both sine and square waveChannels:At least 2An intuitive and easy to use interface. A keypad would be ideal.Network connectivity (LAN, WiFi) is preferable over USBAbility to import a waveform from a scope that is not the same brand. I believe the way this would work is that I export the waveform as CSV from my scope and then import that CSV to the software of the AWG or maybe through SCPI? I think this is something that is supported by any AWG.Here is the shortlist I came up with (in the pros and cons I am highlighting the differences between the products):1. FeelTech FY6900 - £80+ Very cheap+ Performs almost as well as AWGs 3x the price+ Compact- Usage looks OK but a bit clunky- No keypad- Grounding cable that is not rated for mains voltage- No fan, gets hot- No LAN, only USB- Bad internal power supply- Very light so pressing buttons means moving the whole thing unless holding it- 1-year warranty2. RIGOL DG812 - £240+ Can be hacked for 35MHz+ Compact+ 3-year warranty- No keypad- LAN is optional3. Siglent SDG1032X - £260+ I have a Siglent power supply, so I have used the brand before and trust them+ Very nice and informative screen+ Can be hacked for 60MHz+ Low jitter for square waves+ 3-year warranty- A bit bigSo from what I can see the FeelTech is by far the best value for money but with a few shortcomings that can be resolved manually. At the same time though the Siglent gives me a complete package with a better interface at of course a higher price.I would say for a first AWG I want one that I won't have to worry about and I can trust it will work without problems or modifications. I could see myself buying a FeelTech in the future as a secondary AWG but for my first one, I am leaning towards the Siglent especially because of the 3-year warranty.I was a bit surprised on the low amount of options at this price range. Any AWGs that I have perhaps missed? Any specs I overlooked that matter much more than I thought?

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 08:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 13, 2020, 07:39:11 pmI can only add some information on that one which I consider bang-per-buck-wise the best choice but YMMV.First of all, if you decide to get the Rigol, go for the DG811 since it's the same hardware troughout the whole DG800/900 series. Even the spare part number of the main PCB in the chinese service guide is identical for all of these models.Depending on firmware version, hacking may not be completely without problems but there's quite a community of owners here willing to help.The phrase "No Keypad" should be changed to "No Physical Keypad". IMO, the touch screen is integrated quite well into the user interface and of course offers a keypad function. This has to be the first AWG what doesn't simply duplicate physical button functions on the touch screen like the Siglent models.There's no physical LAN interface externally available but it can be added via a £5 USB/LAN adapter at the expense of using the (single) USB host socket at the rear. Internally, it seems an RJ45 socket with integrated magnetics can be installed to provide a physical LAN interface. I don't know if anyone tested this already.The DG811 can be hacked to the full 100MHz and memory depth of the DG992, yet at reduced signal amplitude of slightly less than -3dB. Amplitude is accurate (according to spec) up to approx. 70MHz. Once we find out how to calibrate the instrument, it would be possible to get it accurate up to its frequency limit.And maybe most important, you can use it right out of the box without having to tinker with the power supply or grounding issues...

author: Powernun
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 11:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on June 13, 2020, 08:52:05 pmI have to admit, I went through the spec sheet of the DG8xx and completely missed the fact that they are touch screens. This coupled with the hack and being smaller in size than the Siglent one makes it a much better value. I'll have to look more into whether the hack would still work or not and if it does this would be extremely tempting.Also good to know that any USB/LAN adapter would work, I saw Rigol selling an official one for £35 which I found ridiculous.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 12:45:24 am
content: Sorry if I wasn't completely clear about the LAN adapter: Actually, you should specifically look out for one with the Realtek rtl8152 chipset. But those are available for very little money. You may want to have alook herefor more information on this subject.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 08:43:56 am
content: Importing / exporting CSV files is a bit optimistic. Usually you'll need to use the PC software to convert the exported file to file which can be imported into the AWG memory. The quality of this software usually isn't the highest. All in all it is not a very straightforward process which makes using self defined waveforms a bit of a hassle.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 09:12:16 am
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 13, 2020, 07:39:11 pmThe bail handle is easily removed reducing overall width ~40mm.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 09:27:20 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 14, 2020, 08:43:56 amI don't know about the Rigol and Siglent systems, but with my Agilent AWG the file is just a collection of values (not comma separated but one value per line).I've used it with software generated values for sin to allow me to output 99MHz when the instrument itself only goes up to 30MHz (of course the magnitude is rather low but it is usable). Getting values from a scope would require setting the sampling rate to match that of the scope and then just putting the magnitudes in the file - the instrument is not clever enough to do time scaling.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 09:30:35 am
content: Quote from: jpb on June 14, 2020, 09:27:20 amOn the Siglent SDG1010 I have it was a cumbersome process. Most CSV dumps I've seen from oscilloscopes include some kind of header. An AWG needs to be able to deal with that too.

author: Powernun
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 11:08:51 am
content: Quote from: TurboTom on June 14, 2020, 12:45:24 amThanks for clearing that up. I had a look at the topic and I already found a few options for around £3 which is quite negligible so going the adapter route is definitely an option. I would, of course, prefer the hardware to be embedded but it's only a slight preference.Quote from: nctnico on June 14, 2020, 08:43:56 amI thought it might be a bit cumbersome by using the product's PC software, but I was hoping that at least I would be able to write a script to:Pull the waveform from my scope as CSVConvert the file to an AWG compatible oneUpload the converted file to my AWGIt looks like I'll have to do a bit more digging to confirm if something like that would be possible.Quote from: tautech on June 14, 2020, 09:12:16 amThat's good to know, that means it should fit snuggly on top of my Siglent SPD3303X-E. I have started running out of space so I am trying to go a bit more vertically with equipment.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 11:14:36 am
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 14, 2020, 11:08:51 amGimme a minute and I'll measure widths exactly.........SPD3303X-E = 230mm across middle of chassisSDG1032X = 225mm across the rubber bumpers with bail handle removed.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 01:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 14, 2020, 11:08:51 amMost test equipment adheres to 19" rack sizing. Either full width or half width and removing the handles allows to stack equipment more easily.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 01:35:35 pm
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 14, 2020, 11:08:51 amI'll just leave this hereBtw i'd recommend getting the SDG2042X, yeah its a bit of a stretch at $500 but you will never need another one of this class either

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 01:38:09 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 14, 2020, 11:14:36 amLeave the bumpers on.. they space out the hardware for airflow, instead use something else in the back if you need to lift it up more.. in my case on the right stack i used a bunch of proto run pcbs to build up enough since the load units are bit longer than the DMMAlso if you have all siglent gear they are made to stack on each other which is kinda cool

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 01:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: Powernun on June 14, 2020, 11:08:51 amDead simple if you pair a Siglent scope and AWG together. Scope captures can be uploaded and replicated in the the AWG.The AWG free accessory SW EasyWaveX also allows this to be done remotely while both the scope and AWG are LAN or USB connected.You were looking at the SDS1104X-E weren't you ?The SDG1032X pairs nicely with it to do all the above plus provide the stimulus for the scopes Bode plot feature.

author: Powernun
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 05:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: Elasia on June 14, 2020, 01:35:35 pmUnfortunately that one is quite outside my budget. I'm planning on starting with a basic one but of course that's not to say in the future I won't upgrade to something like the SDG2042X if I see the need for it.Quote from: tautech on June 14, 2020, 01:41:23 pmI have to give them that, Siglent gear work quite well together. But to be honest I don't think I would use these kinds of integrations often enough to justify locking my options to a specific company. In general, I prefer equipment (whether electronics or other) to not have dependencies on each other, that way down the line I can upgrade to whatever the best value is without having to buy from the same company. As for Bode plot, I did not even know what it was until a few weeks ago when I started researching on a scope so I have no idea whether I would ever use it or not.Don't get me wrong though, if someone knew they would use these kinds of integrations on a daily basis then going all Siglent or all Rigol etc. is the way to go. In any case, it's good to know that these kinds of integrations exist, definitely a plus for Siglent, so thank you for the information.

author: Powernun
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 05:50:29 pm
content: I decided to try out the Rigol DG811 with the "upgrade" to DG992 to see how it goes. In less than a day, I managed to upgrade it and it has been working well. A few notes from using it:Build quality feels cheap. Not as cheap as a FeelTech but fairly cheap.The design can be polarising, personally, I don't care.Fanless is a big plus, it does get a bit toasty on the top though making me wonder how long it will lastIt's very light to the point that I have to hold it for pressing any buttons. I don't mind that too much and am planning on putting a couple of stoppers behind the back legs.It's also very small, fits perfectly on top of my Siglent SPD3303X-EThe whole upgrade to DG992 and buying a cheap USB to LAN adapter is a bit of a PITA, but once done the value you get is unmatchedAll in all, I don't think the build quality can be compared to the Siglent SDG1032X, but I am willing to overlook these issues for the very good value for money after the upgrade. Without the upgrade, I would not even consider this compared to the Siglent.Thank you all for your help.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 08:20:00 pm
content: I agree the DG800 / 900 feels a little "plasticky", but if youdisassemble itand keep an eye on the details, you'll find it's build quality is surprisingly solid. For example, the plastic casing parts are quite thick moldings, all the screws are machine types that mate with brass inserts in the plastic moldings.The structural central member of the assembly is quite a substantial stamped and folded sheet metal component, also providing good electrical shielding of the component side of the PCB and between the PCB and the power supply. At the same time, it provides mounting holes/slots for all the BNC sockets to relieve the stress from the PCB.I wouldn't worry about the power supply getting warm a little: It's located directly beneath the vented top cover so it's only natural that some heat can be felt there. On mine, the temperature increase is nothing out of the ordinary.No question, the instrument is built to a budget, but not so to an extent to hamper reliability or rigidity. @Powernun: I think you made a very reasonable choice.Enjoy your new AWG!

author: Teti
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 09:25:21 pm
content: I've been considering a new AWG about 6 months ago and went for Siglent SDG2082X as it has better features and spec than Rigol or any other AWG's on the market in this price category. Great little tool for the price. Bargain price £440 spanking new in clearance. Feeltech would be my choice if you are on very tight budget and don't worry aboutsafetyspec too much, dodgy power supply would be a big no no to me, also absence of 10Hhz input put me off. Bargain price for what it can do though!Edit:https://www.tester.co.uk/siglent-sdg1000x-seriesAs you mentioned your budget is £300, this would consider this one a decent choice