Electronics Lab Funding - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 12:21:22 am
content: Raising money for lab tools: gofundme.com/w9by28d8

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 12:41:54 am
content: "gofundme" ... Why ? ? ?

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 01:59:16 am
content: Nice lab,RayRiley. I think you're going to make a lot of adults jealous.Edit: Name correction. Ray set up the campaign for Riley.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:13:10 am
content: Wow.

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:28:57 am
content: I don't have much in the way of equipment, a hakko soldering station and a cheap chinese power supply. the link gofundme.com/w9by28d8 is to raise money for an oscilloscope and a psu.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:38:26 am
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 28, 2016, 02:28:57 amIt would help if you told us what you want to do with it, projects you plan to work on etc.

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:53:23 am
content: Since I used to always be into motors, relays, and electromagnets(non-solidstate) I never had much of a need for precision, but now with all the different ic's and microcontrollers having an oscilloscope and a PSU can be extreamly helpful. I am currently using arduino as my main platform for projects. I Have been working on triac christmass light driver that will be controlled over a serial port, but it has slowed since I have not been able to troubleshoot it very well.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:59:20 am
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 28, 2016, 12:21:22 amYou have awaybetter lab bench area than I do.Perhaps your funding would go a much longer way if you got used equipment off Ebay. I have lots of high quality used gear from Ebay sellers that is plenty good enough for most projects.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 06:21:23 am
content: Just an FYI: you don't need a precision PSU like the DP832 when "when working with sensitive microcontrollers and circuits". Granted, it's a nice to have, but you already have a PSU. You should be able to get by just fine. Just like a 2ch scope will do just fine to get you up and running.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 08:32:14 am
content: Umm, no.Build your own power supply like the rest of us did, and then find a £100 scope off eBay.and I thought the current generation of SJW open borders non binary politically correct kids were bad enough,I'm taking my Planet back, none of you deserve to inherit it.

author: stmdude
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 08:44:20 am
content: You have _everything_ (and more) you need to get started with proper micros. In fact, with that equipment, I would have no problems building and debugging everything I make at work, and all I do at work is working with MCUs and SoCs..Get a dev-board for the MCU you want to work with, hook it up to a breadboard, and go to town. You have many years worth of learning before you outgrow the equipment you already have.I'll give you a hint. The next thing you'll need is not a PSU or a scope. You'll need a logic analyzer. Something like the Saleae would be perfect for you, once you get into medium-speed busses such as I2C or SPI.Quote from: bitslice on April 28, 2016, 08:32:14 amSounds like an idea. Lets divide it up. You'll get everything that belonged to the old UK empire, and I'll get everything that belonged to the old Swedish empire. Deal ?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 09:01:38 am
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 28, 2016, 12:21:22 amBear in mind that "an engineer is someone that can do for $1 what any fool can do for $10".You already have a very good setup, far more than is required for your stated needs.What youdoneed isunderstandingandimagination. If you have those then you will find that you can debug most Arduino projects with a switch, a LED, a potentiometer, a 3.5 digit voltmeter (or sometimes analogue is preferable), the Arduino IDE, and - most importantly - a strategy that you design a small increment of functionality, then test it, then design the next increment, etc. If you just implement a single big ball of fluff and try to test it all at once, you will find it very difficult and frustrating.Such thinking willgreatlyhelp you if you decide to become a professional engineer. Thought to ponder: if you were asked to design the world's highest resolution voltmeter, or highest bandwidth oscilloscope, how would you test it?Good luck, and find ways of making use of whatever is already availableand start building something that stretches your capabilities! Don't plan on doing something in the future if the wind in in the right direction - get on and start right now.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 09:11:14 am
content: Quote from: stmdude on April 28, 2016, 08:44:20 amI'd give anything to see Sweden and Germany go back 10 years and just stop and think really hard about what they do next,we really did think that Sweden was the perfect country

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 09:12:48 am
content: QuoteWhy is the cost important when some other fool is paying for it ?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 10:10:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 28, 2016, 09:25:51 amWell, a lot of adults are doing that nowadays! Besides, I always told my child "don't ask don't get, do ask might get".He's done a reasonable job of defining what he wants (even if I don't think he needs it), and is trying something. He'll learn a lot about the world and people.But I think he needs to get on and build something now, rather than planning on doing something in the future.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:13:22 pm
content: I think all the judgement has been made - perhaps too subtly (?!)But for the stated project of LED Christmas lights, the OP has far more than needed to complete the project on Arduino.As mentioned, a bit of patience, datasheets, burnt fingers and practice will do a lot more for your lab than any scope or PSU will. If really necessary, invest $20 in a decent breadboard, and another $20 in hookup wire and proto board.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:18:15 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on April 28, 2016, 02:13:22 pmStill an oscilloscope would be an asset. One of those small ARM based gizmo's would already make a huge improvement if you have nothing.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 02:28:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 28, 2016, 02:18:15 pmOf course it's nice to have, but to develop Arduino Christmas lights, hardly necessary!A few Serial.print() calls and blinking a led will be more than enough - then his parents will see his commitment and buy him a $200 scope for... Christmas!

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 03:05:42 pm
content: I wrote this earlier today on another forum...Almost exactly the same sentiment!http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=397167.0

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 03:59:18 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 28, 2016, 02:47:49 pmAnd don't forgethttp://yosefk.com/c++fqa/for some "light" relief!

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 06:42:22 pm
content: An Analog Discovery would serve your purposes just fine

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 07:17:27 pm
content: Interestingly, a person who seems to be identical to the OP, has posted youtube videos up. E.g. Where they have built (at least partly), their own 3D printer, made out of scrap parts, which they were able to salvage. Not too bad for a thirteen year old!

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 07:29:15 pm
content: The cristmass light driver is for 115v AC lights(not low voltage leds). It uses triacs, optoisolated triac drivers, a TLC5940, a 5v regulator, and led indicators. This board will daisy-chain to multiple boards then connect to an arduino and finally to a computer with serial interface.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 07:50:31 pm
content: QuoteMust be getting too old for this modern world ...? in my teenage days we had to do paper rounds etc to earn the money for our hobbies.Sent a few spare boards to someone pleading poverty etc not long ago, a few weeks later they posted about unpacking their new rigol 1054.

author: G0WZB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 08:22:59 pm
content: Quote from: picandmix on April 28, 2016, 07:50:31 pmTotally Agree.On another forum I frequent on ham radio I gave a fairly good Kenwood radio to a new starter as they "had no money" I didn't get any thanks and a a month later they were showing off a £1500 top of the range radio? Never again

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 09:18:48 pm
content: My advice would be to CANCEL the gofundme thing. It is not a very nice (honest) way of getting things.I would suggest going for the Scope first.Try and find out things that you can do, which can earn you a little money.E.g. Washing a neighbors car, every so often.Offering to mow a neighbors lawns, etc etc.Maybe carrying out simple, low voltage (battery operated stuff) repairs, for a modest charge.Maybe even help others with their computer problems, for a modest/sensible fee.Then in time, you can use the hard earned money to buy your first scope.Also the older (crt) analogue scopes, are still perfectly usable and useful for learning from. You may be able to get one at low cost and maybe even for free. From a local electronics hobbyist,School/University/business, who no longer want/need it. Since they are being rapidly replaced by modern digital (LCD) ones. So maybe just lying on shelves gathering dust.If you earn the money yourself, it will make you proud and get much better "value", from your hard earnt scope.tl;drThere are right and wrong ways of going about things. Best to earn it yourself, rather than rely on the generosity of others.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2016, 09:56:17 pm
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 28, 2016, 07:29:15 pmThat's a reasonable strategy. But in code development, you would still use LEDs on your bench, and a scope is still a luxury if you start with fundamentals... like the physical distance between the output registers to understand your logic requirements and interference... calculating your power requirements etc. These require a pencil, and hardware questions, not a scope or PSU (it may be too small... or over the top!)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:02:37 am
content: I wouldn't mind getting some more kit by just throwing out a fund raiser like that. Ask for money and promise nothing.A scope I can understand - it is a nice-to-have - but 4 channels for your first one? I suppose if you get the money easy, you can aim pretty high without worrying about how you could afford it - so why not.The one that gets me is the precision power supply. For Arduino? Give me a break.If I was to get $1000 for buying a new scope and PSU, I'd at least offer to post some pictures of them set up on my bench. (He does have a nice bench and those overhead cupboards (or should I call them lockers?) look solid.)

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:40:31 am
content: Just BTW... I've been working with microprocessors for 40 years (SC/MP and 2650), and maybe 1-in-10 situations 'could' have used more than 2 channels + ext trigger. I have built ALL my own power supplies, and on my bench use a closed-frame (MeanWell branded) +5/12 supply. I also have a variable 30V/20A supply for those exciting projects, and an older variable box that I built for 0-20V @ 2A.I doubt that in my entire 59 years that I've spent more than $1000 on bench / test gear - but I *have* spent a lot more on hardware, chips, and 'books'... those old style paper things. And I've learned and successfully built a lot of items, products, and even a company with that experience!

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:46:41 am
content: NO NO NO !!Get a job, or two, or more.This is an I want NOT I need.I bought an old scope when I was a kid.Dave saved his own money to purchase his scope when he was a kid.You will also discover that when you buy something with your OWN money,gained by your OWN endeavors,that you feel a greater sense of satisfaction.Nothing compares to having achieved a goal or knowing that you have learned something new.BY YOURSELF.3db

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 02:49:45 am
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 28, 2016, 02:28:57 amYou don't own a multimeter?

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 06:35:00 am
content: I think OP is hiding, or counting his million$ !

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:33:24 am
content: This thread is a bit scary if you're not accustomed to receiving so much advice (good, bad, or otherwise) before.Since the OP is Riley and the fund raising campaign is owned by Ray, I wonder whose idea it was in the first place.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 09:01:03 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on April 29, 2016, 07:33:24 amThat worries me as well.The danger would/could be, that (dubious) parents could advertise their child, as being an electronics hobbyist, and asking $1,000 (or whatever), for semi-decent hobby equipment. Then the parents (and others), could just pocket the money, and spend it on other things.In slight defence of the OP, when you are younger, it is harder to see/understand, right and wrong ways of doing things.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 10:26:53 am
content: As far as I am concerned, there is one overriding element in all of this: Is the Op who they say they are?The request, the workbench and a few other things aren't sitting comfortably with me. I may be wrong, but the anonymity of the internet enables such games.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 10:30:39 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 29, 2016, 10:26:53 amWell, he's certainly not getting rich yet! 0$ of $1000 target.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 10:32:13 am
content: .... I noticed.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 12:29:06 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on April 29, 2016, 10:26:53 amI just checked Sears - that Craftsman workbench + backsplash/light costs ~$500, not even adding the two cabinets. I realize you need a place to work, but ...

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 12:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on April 29, 2016, 12:29:06 pmThis type of scam or sense of entitlement is destroying my faith in the human race.I guess if this kid or his dad didn't do it, the Middle East, China or Trump would have!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 12:56:35 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on April 29, 2016, 12:29:06 pmThe computer in the corner, looks like a $1500 (very rough guess), iMAC computer.Some of the fittings, look way too professionally done, to have been DIYed, by a typical youngster, as well.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:00:30 pm
content: If it's a genuine request, then there is a fundamental lack of social courtesy. There are better ways to make such an approach.If it's a scam - then the idea is not new. Con men have been around for a long time. The internet has just extended the reach a little....If it's a sense of 'entitlement' then I am really ready to jump up on a soapbox. I've encountered more than one person whose whole attitude is centred around the concept that the world 'owes them' - with little or no effort on their part. They make my blood boil.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on April 29, 2016, 12:56:35 pmI mean, if you're going to do it, do it up right ... put a big piece of plywood on a couple of sawhorses and call it your lab bench for the pleadings.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:09:20 pm
content: I thought the following, was the method of getting free scopes, while under ones parents.(Joke)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 01:17:06 pm
content: If someone tried that on me - not only would they NOT get a scope, but they would progressively lose their power supply, multimeter and soldering station if they kept it up.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 05:02:19 pm
content: It's also possible that Riley's parents drew a line in the sand after getting him a lot of nice kit. Anything more will rely on his resourcefulness.In any case, the best thing Riley can do is to share more about his prior projects, current project, lots of photos, etc. Become a part of the community and lots of good things happen (not necessarily financial, but anything's possible).

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:34:17 pm
content: The iMac WAS quite an expensive computer, it was the family computer until it finally died. It is now mine since I had it repaired for about 200$ a few years ago.

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:36:06 pm
content: I do also have a multimeter, sorry i forgot to mention it.

author: VoidsWarranties
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:43:48 pm
content: The reason I have the nice bench is mainly because my parents would hate having anything that does not look nice. I got it when my room was remolded 3years ago. My parents think that now I am 13 I should start paying for the things I want.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 29, 2016, 07:43:48 pmYes, but surely the idea is THIS:Rather than THIS:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2016, 07:58:45 pm
content: Quote from: VoidsWarranties on April 29, 2016, 07:36:06 pmYou already have all you need for your problem, so get on and do it.You would be very unwise to connect a scope to the mains; there is a high probability that large currents would flow. Before you connect a scope to the mains, read learn and inwardly digesthttp://www.tek.com/document/primer/abcs-probeshttp://info.tek.com/www-xyzs-of-oscilloscopes-primer.htmlhttp://in.tek.com/dl/3AW_19134_2_MR_Letter.pdfhttp://www.tek.com/dl/51W_10640_1.pdfYou will know you understand soemthing when you can explain it to someone else.Before you use triac on the mains, get a standard mains->12VAC isolating AC transformer (not a DC PSU) and connect the triac to the 12V outputs with a 12V bulb. You will then be able to test whether your circuit works at 12V without touching the mains. Much less dangerous. (Don't do what I did once, touch live with one hand and neutral with the other. I was lucky: the sudden strong involuntary muscle contraction made me drop the PCB and the circuit across my chest was broken)If you still can't figure out why your design doesn't work with a multimeter and printf statements in the arduino code, then use this forum to try and help diagnose what is wrong. You will find it more difficult to explain things than you expect, but that would be a good and necessary skill to learn. Starting point is, of course, to say what you intend it to do, what you observe it doing, and to give a schematic.