Gender, technology and relationships: Personal experiences and some thinkings - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 am
content: <NOTE: I don't want to call the demon, you know who I mean. Please don't take it as an attack or something offtopic, because it matters me even as heterosexual male I'm (still) am.>Hello.This is just an appointment because I've seen some "cave men" attitudes at not only the vocational schools (but it's very extreme there, a female in a class is like a miracle), but even in electronics and computing communities & higher educational centers. It's based on my personal experience and some stuff I did read occasionally.Do you still like the "cave men" behaviour that electronics still has? Because I don't:* I would love to see more diversity of people in technology: People would feel more comfortable and our hobby/profession/passion would be more interesting.* I'm neuroatipycal (ADHD) and suffered problems because of that and even have been stupidly tagged as "homo" because being very emotional or arab because my very arab-like looks.I wrote this because I think this is a very friendly and open minded community:* Do you think we should welcome people of all sexuality and conditions? I believe we should, because our scientific thinking and want to do what we want.About heterosexual women and me- I find extremelly boring the stereotyped women I find everywhere with their "woman stuff" and such shit: I have long stories about that, but I would like to make the topic more general.- I'm also an unconventional man: I don't like not only most sports, but specially find to watch them to be really boring. I also find boring most of the action movies too.- I see females into technology at least in my zone.* Maybe some of us can find our dreams' life partner to become an EE or an electronics enthusiast: I would love to know and get mutually attracted with a hardcore geek woman passionated with technology and other of my interesting topics of life. Maybe some people can find this to be crazy and stupidly romantic, maybe it is*The few women i found to be really into technology are really attractive to me: They need to develop a very strong personality, be passionate to technology and even stubborn to surpass the "male barrier".About gay/lesbian/bisexual- I find to empathize easily with people that suffered any kind of discrimination or aggresion that traumatized them.- I know very nice people in the gay/bi/transgender sexual spectrum that had really hard traumatic experiences.There's lots of "not normal sexuality" people in technology too:* A very known case of a gay man that got really tortured is Alan Turing:** This man was a genious and finally prefered suicide than a turturing life, homophobia these days was very institutionalized and considered a disease/crime.** Who knows what might have happened if he had a better life and his mind would still making really disruptive technologies and concepts.Crossdressing, travestite and transgenderCulture tip: Crossdresser clubs were an innovation from England.- There's probably crossdresser and transgender people in our topic of interest, electronics and probably computing to some of us too.* Nothing wrong with that! I'm not into crossdressing and the idea of myself role playing as a woman makes me really nonsense. I might be a sensible guy and appreciate femenine looking, but not on myself.* I still don't fully understand this concept, I find it complex.Crossdresser electronics people: Welcome to the forum!About transgender...What about if crossdressing can become a transition to transgender?It's easy to be a woman and become a transman, because men sexuality objetively simpler and hormones provides the male looks easily. It's said embyons start as male and later develop as male or female, but I don't know about biology.Some of you maybe don't know it, but it'sreally expensiveto do the massive surgeon to become a transwoman!- It's not just about the difficult process to make a vagina surgically and the hormones, but the plastic surgery to remove male looking and sometimes this is very hard to do.- These days some countries to the sex reasignment surgery by their public health services, I see it to be something very positive.- Lots transwoman are often into oblivion because of that and end in very wrong jobs such as prostitution. It's really sad.- It's a very frustrating and depressing problem to have a body you don't like at all and very hard to understand to people that don't suffer it:* Some of them get very introvert personalities and get interested into technology: I believe his is partially due to sex isn't an issue when you learn technology and do things with it, only if you stay away and be less social:* Lots of them start as hardcore self-learners and stay at home most of the time. There are very nice and cool transgender people into electronics too, not just "makers". There exist and many of them that managed to apparent like a biological woman by investing lots of efforts and hard earn money, but try to keep under the radar to keep her secret not be known by people.* I think many of them they're afraid of people ridiculing them, so they prefer to be in closed circles of trust:** You can understand it if you know deeply to some transgender people and how they're still seen as freaks: I knew many great woman that were men at earlier stages of their life, very attractive and intelligent. You would really question yourself your sexuality taboos if you know one of them. some of you can "feel gay"

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:18:24 am
content: Can't we just stick with AC and DC subjects?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 03:36:59 am
content: I was just joking.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 04:14:36 am
content: Well Okay.............Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amMost of the time it doesn't bother me..Besides to most women this is, in small doses attractive.QuoteThat is a two edged knife and cuts both ways.If He is too much smarter than me, it turns me off and there is little to talk about.QuoteWhat about her interesting topics, interests and whatnot?What if she likes to throw pottery and you have no interest but she has only a minimal interest in electronics???My Ex-boyfriend and I had quite a bit in common, not just electronics (truth be known I knew more about it than he did) We had other interests, music, (of all kinds) Tropical fish, Cats, and other interests.Also; you have to take an interest in what she may be interested even when it is not tech... Relationships are all about give and take, if you love someone you will have an interest in their other activities.QuoteThere are in all fields.QuoteHe made his choices and had to live with them.For every one like him there were a hundred who chose to keep their feelings on that matter to themselves.You have a choice to act or not on whatever your sexual orientation is.QuoteYou have that backwards all embryos start out female.Here is a not so fun fact.For every miscarriage that would have been a female baby five males miscarry.QuoteWell this took an interesting turn.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 07:02:18 am
content: I'm not sure this topic will go far. If the OP needs to chat with people about this sort of thing there are forums dedicated to sexuality. sexinfo101.com/forum is one i used many years ago and is (well when I was on it) a grown up forum inhabited by some very helpful people with open minds. Obviously many people on there will have their own interests no doubt plenty in electronics.I don't tend to like most mens attitudes to women, like you say the caveman attitude, should not be neccessary in todays civilized society (well maybe it's not) on the one hand we have progressed faster technologically than we have biologically/socially and I am always wondering how much of our behaviour is erm... genetic and how much learnt from our elders. Much of the over the topness we have overe here on equality with things like, sexuality, race, etc I think are born out of a well intentioned system trying to reverse the hard coded attitudes of the older generation and aggreesively challenge their views being passed onto the youger generation. This is why we change so slowly, we learn from our parents and grandparents and what we learn when young stays with us for life and we are unlikely to want to change. I am usually the exception as i do have an open mind at all times, I don't have a massive ego and so don't have a problem listening to other peoples argument and changing my mind if I can see their point. It's how we learn and develop, well some of us do, some of us keep our egos and become cavemen.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 07:38:36 am
content: QuoteIm coming from the eet side so there might be some difference. With females there certainly a small hint of that caveman attitude that you described, but it was not white knight level. They were often treated the same as us guys by almost all of us. I started off on the engineering side which would have multiple full classes, in wich about 20% were female. Compare that to my eet classes in which they were rare. There were quite a few girls in the programming classes.QuoteI wouldnt mind actually seeing more etnical diversity in the field. Though my class was mostly white, we had a rather diverse selection of people of different ages/ social/economic classes.When you mentioned being called a "homo" that reminded me of the time i was called a " fucking homo" in school by someone i didnt know. I was just walking to the bathroom during class.About heterosexual women and me***skip, never been in a relationship. SorryI do share some of your beliefs, but your opposite doesnt need to be into electronics for everything to work out, probably better that way. Funnily I often help people with their relationship issues.QuoteAround here most tend to keep their alternate sexual preferences somewhat private, which is fine with me, though i wouldnt judge. The only thing that i might have a problem with is those that are flamingly homosexual(havent met any).Quote

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 07:43:29 am
content: Double posting to remind myself to respond to the big quote i left. I will also add in some more stuff to my other response.Editing replies on my S3 is horrible.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 07:56:34 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amI was recently elevated to "moderator" status on an internet datingforumsite. This means that, whenever I choose, I can vote on reported/pulled material in the backroom as to whether or not it meetsforumsite guidelines.It matters not that I am only interested in heterosexual women; in the moderators lounge you see it all. So now I know what a socket surgically created out of a plug looks like. This is exactly how much internet dating has enriched my life thus far.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:48:58 am
content: Regarding gender roles in engineering, I don't know if it's institutional or "nature vs nurture", but there is decidedly a very small number of females in highly technical subjects. Back in school, I think my class was something like ~100 EEs, maybe two female.From what I've heard from others (not having seen any myself), women in design are exceedingly rare, though women in less technical but related roles, like PCB layout, do exist, and are quite capable.Biologically speaking, it would be careless to ignore the innate differences between genders. Few women are highly technical and desire to concentrate intensely on one subject. (Few men as well, it would seem, hence the technical disciplines being as rarefied as they are, to begin with. But much more than of women.) Conversely, there aren't as many men who are capable of the things that women are generally more talented at: combinational and emotional synthesis, I suppose you could say. Multitasking is a common claim.(Now to probably ignore this thread as it inevitably devolves into shitposting)Tim

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 09:12:38 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 07:02:18 amI agree. This isn't the place for it. I don't see this thread sticking to the technology industry.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 09:40:46 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amCongratulations. By saying so you just became member of multiple minorities.So you can start being multi-dicriminated and multi-offended.Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amAs a wannable-motocrosser, that days i found it really expensive to buy a dirtbike and the other equipment to become myself: a motocrosser.Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amThanks for your empathy, I'm often discriminated, roads where I can't go, places I have to behave as a non-motocrosser,the agression of others towards me, people staring angry to me... traumatizing..

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 09:42:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 06, 2015, 09:12:38 amHuh? I did'nt get this!

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 09:53:15 am
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amBy my (contemporary) observations to date women venturing into non-stereotypical roles are met equally if not more so with opposition from other women.http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/402647619874/catfight

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 10:07:06 am
content: Maybe I'm just lucky but my personal experience in tech related areas seriously mimics the old misunderstood meme: "There are no girls on the internet." No one cares what genitals you have, what genitals you like to play with, etc, etc. The ideas and work is all that matters whether they come from a cisgender white man or anyone else and all get the same praise and ridicule. The only times I've seen anyone treat differently just because they aren't male, straight, cisgendered etc is because they expected special treatment because of one or more of those factors. If you expect special treatment you can't complain when you get it, even if you expected to get a free pass but ended up with extra special ridicule.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 11:45:20 am
content: Quote from: GK on November 06, 2015, 07:56:34 amI was looking up dating forums just the other day and a google search didnt really give me much leads. Do you reccomend any particular forums ? I am going to try out serious online dating (no more tindering) so it would be great to go on forums and learn from the collective wisdom.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 12:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: bigdawg on November 06, 2015, 11:45:20 amSorry, I've had a long week. That should have read "internet datingsite".

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 12:57:46 pm
content: Quote from: GK on November 06, 2015, 12:31:13 pmlol good thing its almost weekend for y'all. I still have to get through the day.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:20:23 pm
content: If datingforumsdo exist (probably) my advice would be to avoid. Having seen (moderators privileges) what a constant stream of weirdos (of their gender) try to get away with publicly(!) posting of themselves I wouldn't like to chat with any potential mate without first vetting her out by reading a profile. I thought the flagged profile of one woman looked quite normal, until I noticed the close-up photo of her bung hole in her profile photo album.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:23:58 pm
content: Wrong post location.But my thoughts.I don't use the word gay to depict homosexuals. I call them homosexuals. Gay means happy in my book. If the PC police don't like it, they can simply go and get stuffed. Before the PC police say I am discriminatory, I have worked with at least three homosexuals in the electronics industry - I did not have a problem at all. I treated them the same as anyone else. They happened to be good workers and easy to get along with.Same as hackers. I am a hacker and proud of it. As are most of you should be. Have not been arrested yet, because I have done nothing wrong. The PC police and the media have labelled us all as evil bastards. The American movie industry destroyed the meaning and all the sheep who read women's gossip magazines and tabloid newpapers just went along with it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:29:06 pm
content: Quote from: GK on November 06, 2015, 01:20:23 pmI once set up a female dating profile on a dating website it was set up as looking for friends only as it was for a social group I am involved with. The result was a lots of stupid arrogant men contacting me. They rarely ever read the description which quite clearly stated we were a group and that it was not an individual female. I got proposals of marriage and demands for my phone number in the first message from many and one person who started chatting to me eventually went to look at the profile when I realise he had not read it from his attempts at conversation with me as a female. So having pointed out that he should read the profile I then got a very angry response about how I was wasting his time. He was very hurt by the fact that he had actually been talking to a man No doubt a very big ego slightly dented.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:37:16 pm
content: Quote from: GK on November 06, 2015, 01:20:23 pmgood thing I havnt encountered anything of that sort. its stereotypes like that which has kept me skittish of online dating. However, meeting girls in real life isnt as easy as it was in college; and I dont have the time or energy to go out to bars 2-3 times a week and still go to work hence online dating makes more sense.I'll try to stay away from the forums though.

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on November 06, 2015, 01:23:58 pmI dont know the norms/sensitivities about such issues down under but here in states the term homosexuals seems like a perfectly acceptable word.I am typing this while being on a short term project in Mumbai, India; and here the cultural norms and language usage are slanted in such a way that most people use the word gay to mean happy; and "homosexual" is used to describe, umm, well homosexuals.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 01:29:06 pmSecond in number only to the scammers writing fake (almost exclusively female) profiles with misappropriated model/glamour-type profile photos easily found all over the net with either a Google or Tineye image search, is offending men uploading photos of themselves with their dongs out. They range from college jocks posing with their tackle tightly gripped to crooked geriatrics poking their bits out of their Dr Livingston-style safari shorts. It's f$$#ing unbelievable. I don't moderate voluntarily anymore (My eyes! My eyes!), except for a laugh to show someone the freak show lurking behind the curtains.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: bigdawg on November 06, 2015, 01:43:17 pmIn Asia most people use "old-fashioned English" it's usually the first obvious sign that a dating profile is fake or that that email out of the blue is definitely dodgy.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:46:18 pm
content: I have to ask;What happened to children learning social skills growing up?Usually those skills are learned from our parents, it is obvious they don't teach them in schools.One other thing that is as obvious as it gets; As we move into the second generation of Internet Children it is getting much worse.Leaves me with the conclusion the whole human race is in a state of decline.Nothing against the OP, as a matter of face I feel for him, he is the symptom of a much larger set of problems in our civilization.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 01:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on November 06, 2015, 01:46:18 pmThe problem is that the biggest regulator of social norms is being worried about what other people think of you. In today's day and age most of us don't even know our neighbours names. We have gotten used to so-called social media which in fact just distance between people and allows them to not see the reaction to what they say and do. We also travel around more and there is no longer that thing where people grow up in a community together and possibly date somebody in the same community and of course everybody has known you since a child. You will in fact find that many people harp over the life in the village and I think that is partly why because it means you have more control over how you bring your children up because they are exposed to less external factors which you can't control and these days those external factors are not very nice mostly.Personally I wouldn't want to have children I wouldn't want to have to deal with bring them up properly while the world around them tells them otherwise and the bullying they will probably suffer through being different. We do live in a nasty age and it is down to the fact that most people have never really had to suffer and we have so much handed to us on the plate. Children with smart phones, it was unheard of when I was a child. Children using the Internet without supervision why on earth. We wonder why there are so many problems with children online yet the answer is bleeding obvious they are being allowed access from a young age without having even learned interpersonal skills a face-to-face level and have no idea of how to deal with something the other side of the world through an electronic device that could be lying to them and cannot show them the facial expressions or body language of the person at the other side.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:02:13 pm
content: Quote from: bigdawg on November 06, 2015, 01:37:16 pmAs a user without moderator privileges you won't as this stuff gets cleaned up pretty quickly.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:13:55 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 01:51:57 pmI think you put it rather well; facing up to the bully on the Internet is as simple as ratting him out to a moderator or shutting down your computer. You don't actually have to develop the skills some of us did when we had to face the bully at the end of the street we lived on. The whole social networking thing is a big lie, Yes it is. Anybody with more than two brain cells to rub together should have figured that out back in the My Space Days.The Internet started out to be a place to exchange information, discuss what goes on in our lives, it was never intended to replace our daily lives, but it has. The Internet has fulfilled what Marshal McLuhan said it would become, even though he never lived to see "Interactive Cable Television" reach its zenith.And People wonder why I DON"T have a smartphone, when I go out and interact with real people the last thing I want to drag along is the Internet.Steve Jobs is quoted as saying he would not allow his children to have iPads or computers at such a young age.He knew the damage this crap causes to a young developing mind.If I had children they wouldn't be allowed to use a computer or smartphone until they were of high school age.They would most likely have to be home schooled, if they wanted to learn electronics they would learn it from a BOOK and use a slide rule to begin with until they understood the concepts, then and only then would they get a programmable calculator.I have seen too many people in the world these days, especially here in California who suffer from atrophy of the brain. They cannot even add three numbers in their head.../Sue gets off the Soap Box and kicks it back into the corner....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:14:39 pm
content: I'm surprised no ones mentioned my book.AFAIK my book is still the world's most widely read internet dating book.For those who don't know, you'll have to find it, that's part of your first test

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:18:24 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 06, 2015, 02:14:39 pmMy experience of todays internet dating is that all girls complain about meeting dicks but then want someone who is exiting. They haven't made the link yet. I'm not exiting but I'm reliable, apparently reliable and honest is no longer a requisit, I was probably born 50 years too late, or rather I probably have aspergers and todays society is all about faking it.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:38:07 pm
content: Be open minded! When I was studying EE there were only three or four girls in the whole EE faculty. Math had much more. Later on I've met a few female EEs, not the hacker type with thick glasses as often portrayed by media/movies. Very nice and pretty, women you'd love to marry. Homosexuals are mostly quite lovely beings. The head of HR of a former employer is homesexual. Some colleagues made a few bad jokes about that, but most had no issues. I also know a transwoman, a software developer. Met her a few times at club meetings (usenet/internet related). I can't think of anyone of the other members that had any problem with that. I might be wrong, but I think most EEs and other engineering or IT related males are open minded and don't have any issues with genders, besides being a little bit shy

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 02:18:24 pmThose girls are simply immature. Great for fun but bad for a real relationship. Some day they will realize that a boring but lovable man offers so much more than the cool guy with the sports car.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:55:22 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 06, 2015, 02:54:18 pmThen I have a 20+ year wait and I'n 32 now.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 02:56:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 01:51:57 pmDamn your skeptical! Having a kids is great! We have two but wish we could have more. Anyway, if a kid isn't prone to keep to him/herself he/she will develop real life friends and relations.More on-topic: I wish there where more women involved in electronics and I always wondered why there are so little. I never met a female electronics engineer! The day I do I probably get all weirdStill I wouldn't want to be married to a women who does the same job as me because there is more in life than electronics.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 03:30:27 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 06, 2015, 02:55:22 pmNo need to be pessimistic. In my experience girls become women around 35. So it's just a 10 year wait, or look for a woman a few years older than you. And there are also a few mature girls. You'll find out quite quickly if a girl/woman is mature or not.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 03:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: madires on November 06, 2015, 03:30:27 pmNot my experience at all; Most women mature to adulthood by their early twenties, men by their late thirties.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 04:24:43 pm
content: I think it is just our society, superficial and with more attention deficit than I may have.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 05:15:09 pm
content: This all started from the picture member Al posted for his/her profile. So far "Al" has not responded. I guess someone could search for all the "Al"s to find the picture. FYI it was a nice picture if you are into that sort of thingand it makes me forget what is going on hereMaybe someone could post the picture to see what started this then most of use will forget what is going on here

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 05:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on November 06, 2015, 03:51:36 pmWell, maturity is very diverse. I consider myself to be mature in some aspects, childish in others. It's a very diverse range of aspects and difficult to be balanced at them, I understand it.But I had relationships with many women older than me and they present serious maturity issues. The main ones are emotional related and being too selfish, that drives me nuts. I have the issue to want to help others, but it's toxic when people don't appreciate it and pejoratively blaming about my issues. That and other problems are what ended my 3yo+ relationship some weeks ago and she was a some years younger than me.I still dream with a geek woman that accepts me how I am, help each other, have fun and someday have children.I wouldn't get bored, I'm still too newbie at advanced technology fields. And I don't care if one is smarter than other, we can motivate each other. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.@EEVBlogI'll look at your internet dating book when I save some bucks for it, but I got really bored about Internet dating. Here in Spain I had very bad results at Internet dating, but most of my couples have been more or less from a combination of Internet dating and real world. I'm a bit shy to flirt to a unknown woman in real life.I'm currently dating with a woman, but I'm not sure what will happen. She has some personal issues and I want to help her, but not wanting to be a white knight again and be trashed when things get better for her...

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 05:30:05 pm
content: For those that could use it (and it gets good reviews)http://www.amazon.com/The-Internet-Dating-David-Jones-ebook/dp/B004MDLVAO

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 05:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amMore gay guys than women on my old campus.QuoteYes I do.QuoteI think for the most part we do. An offhand remark might offend someone because it is personally relevant to them, but if they are cave men types they will speak up about it and it will stop or if the group is composed of assholes they'll find some different group of people to hang out with.Thin skinned people on the other hand will try to regulate every little thing, causing a lot of drama, wasting a lot of time and driving away competent people who don't want to abide by it. Codes of conduct are poison.QuoteCasual prejudice is natural.QuoteI feel the woe is me types outnumber them massively at this point in the west.QuoteAFAICS it's feel good policy with very little data behind it.QuoteAlso partially because they still have a lot of male cultural and genetic programming left

author: Dongulus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 05:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 06, 2015, 05:30:05 pmYes, the review by Brandon is particularly valuable.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 06:20:57 pm
content: You have to pay for Dave's book? AFAIK he does actually give it away for free if you look. Worth the read though, even if you are not interested in the online date thing.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 05:26:29 pmHere is a little advice from a woman that may be helpful to many others besides yourself;Finding the woman, or man of your dreams is like using Google, if the first search criteria doesn't turn up a good result, change the search terms.One other little piece of advice; if you want really great Sex, don't get married and go from partner to partner, sex is usually the first thing to go in a relationship, so it had better be built on something lasting.QuoteIn regard to "helping others" this is usually code words for making her/him in my own image so she/he will be perfect in my eyes. Been there... On the receiving end, the person in question wanted to make me in his image, I told him to go to Hell.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on November 06, 2015, 05:15:09 pmSometimes distraction is a good thing.My roommate just had her drama come to a close and now life is good.When you have known someone as long as I have known my roommate (33 years) their drama becomes your drama.And this brings up something that is very important to this thread;Friends and family are worth far more than a wife, husband, or a girlfriend.I have had the honor of having friends who have known me nearly all my life.My roommate over half my life.A friend I met at a social event back in 1969 whom we are still friends, he has been there through thick and thin, and you know what... We never thought about becoming boy/girl friends. He was like my ideal brother. I have several friends who are true friends that I have known twenty years and longer. It doesn't get better than that. One of my very best friends (an ex roommate when I lived in Texas) got married a few years back and now I have a new friend, her husband is a blast, and a real prince of a gentleman.I have had boyfriends; it is highly overrated in my opinion...

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:23:34 pm
content: QuoteAs are some 'starter wives'.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 08:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on November 06, 2015, 08:23:34 pmThis is true; it is all about Your Choices.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2015, 11:31:32 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on November 06, 2015, 08:03:24 pmMy rule of thumb: see if aren't too many incompatibilities (different goals) and go on a holiday for at least one week to a place you both don't know. If you can get along after that you'll be doing fine together for a long time but don't expect to stay together forever. So far this worked for me for close to 17 years. IMHO the most common errors are to expect people to change, getting married makes things better or having a kid makes things better. If it ain't there it ain't there so move on quickly because life is too short to stay on board of a soon to be train wreck.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:20:10 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 06, 2015, 09:40:46 amAssuming you're being serious and not joking. That's a really poor analogy and demonstrates quite well that you don't actually know what transgender actually is. Imagine for a minute waking up one morning and finding yourself in a woman's body. After the initial curiosity has worn off I think life would suddenly be much more difficult for you. The problem transgender people have is they are physically one gender but psychologically another. Surgery and hormone treatment is not always the the best treatment for everyone with transgender.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 08:31:16 am
content: I think he was being serious but chose to ignore it and so has everyone else.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 09:54:20 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 07, 2015, 08:20:10 amThruth is you don't understand what a motorcrosser is. As it should be like a free choice, something you can keep down.Think for a moment what it should mean to you when society doesn't want to pay for what it takes to be a motorcrosser, and limits your freedom in many ways.Time for you to get beyond the 1-bit black/white field, introduce some grey, and after that even some extra dimensions for the many aspects of it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 10:39:37 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 07, 2015, 09:54:20 amOK your choice but I won't refrain from dealing with people who troll or derail the topic or try to start a mud slinging match.QuoteBack at you. You are of course free to start your own thread on the topic of why won't the government buy me a motorbike.

author: logictom
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: Circuiteromalaguito on November 06, 2015, 01:32:31 amThere was a lot of chatter about this a while back that it may not have been a suicide but an accident - we'll never know as there were issues with the investigation and what not but either way.You could make the same case for a lot of things, not just homophobia, Turning died in '54, segregation wasn't abolished until the mid '60s in the states.Society is moving forward with the times but people take time to change and will always notice someone different for what ever reason but I think you'll find most people are accepting.Most of the horror stories are caused by the minority it doesn't matter what it is, homophobes, [insert religious group here] extremists, racists, etc it's what makes headlines and sells stories.I can't imagine wanting to be in a relationship with someone who had all the same interests as me, isn't variety the spice of life?If you can't find a partner you aren't looking hard enough or you're a bore - I've seen plenty of ugly mugs out on the street with a partner by their side so you don't have an excuse.

author: logictom
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:22:48 pm
content: Quote from: logictom on November 07, 2015, 12:08:21 pmThe guy explaining the system in the video in this post is marriedhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/$2-000-000-nude-virgin-assembled-sound-system/- need I say more

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 12:44:32 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 10:39:37 amCan you please explain what this means, in a kind of english that can be understood by people outside your region too?I can not find a translation for refrain that could fit in this sentence?Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 10:39:37 amIt's your personal choice to determine who is the troll and who starts mud slingering, moderator.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:07:23 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 07, 2015, 12:44:32 pmrefrain = avoid

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 01:54:57 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 07, 2015, 09:54:20 amWrong. I do know what a motocrosser is.QuoteYou've just proved you don't know what transgender is.QuoteThat applies quite well to you.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 04:06:35 pm
content: Can we drop the motorcrosser crap, This thread was started about one specific issue. Granted I have come across minorities that want to be overly pandered to and cause problems but this thread is not about that. A proportion of the population are trouble makers, some of them just happen to be from an ethinic/religious/sexual orientation minority, it even includes car drivers usually those who buy expensive high per cars and expect people to act as though they own the road and get out of their way.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 04:21:49 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 10:39:37 amHe is just reducing to the absurd to make a point I think, not to troll.I wouldn't be surprised if someone killed himself due to the closing of nearby motorcross tracks, people do strange things (from the point of view of others). He is quite right, we don't understand what it's like to be someone like that. People can find a lot of things to be extremely miserable about which they want/need/would like society to adjust for or solve for them. It's a rather arbitrary thing to elevate one over the other.This is not to say we shouldn't do it, culture and social norms are arbitrary and there is nothing wrong with that, but pointing out the god honest truth has value. As usual the truth is uncomfortable though.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 04:29:24 pm
content: People reduce all sorts of things to the absurd to make a point relevbant to the way they want to see it made. Here in the UK they are called UKIP, a nutty political party that may have managed to talk about 5% of sense and 1% truth.....I stopped going to my local butcher because he is a UKIP supporter and one of the really stupid ones. He does not like the smoking ban in public places like pubs, if he could have a ban of his choice he'd ban gays from pubs, because "he does not want to be in a pub and have a gay man chat him up"So smoker in a pub: ruins it for all the non smokers, gay man in a pub: probably not going to hurt a fly or give anyone cancer. Yea, if you reduce things to the absurd, you end up with absurd views.If someone was to kill themselves because their local motor crosser track closed I would expect they have other problems that need dealing with, not their "discrimination" due to their love of motor crossing.Beleive it or not "they walk among us"

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 05:54:53 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 04:29:24 pmAround here we go to the butcher to buy meat. Not to compare preferences regarding smoking and gay man. That kind of discussion is reserved for EE forums.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 06:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 04:29:24 pmLets reduce it to the slightly less absurd then. I believe the same thing about people with body integrity identity disorder.One underlying cause I think is narcissism. Something which will cause problems down the line even if the person is accommodated in his wish for body modification, reality will very rarely live up to their fantasy. They can change their body, but they can't force society to perceive their new body exactly the way they want it to be perceived.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 09:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 07, 2015, 06:32:45 pmA quick Google search suggests that body integrity disorder is more likely to be due to physical disturbances in the brain than narcissism."One hypothesis states that it results from a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe) to incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorderIt's also more likely gender dysphoria is due to physical disturbances in hormones and brain chemistry than narcissism.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria#CausesQuote from: Marco on November 07, 2015, 04:21:49 pmIt's perfectly understandable, if someone kills themselves when a nearby motocross track closes down: they may lose their friends, job, standing in the community etc. and become depressed as a result. However comparing this to gender dysphoria is absurd.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 10:03:13 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 07, 2015, 09:44:43 pmOne does not rule out the other. Take PTSD, modes of thought can make detectable and permanent changes in brain structure.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 10:38:06 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2015, 04:29:24 pmOne of the interesting things about the human condition is you can tell less about a person by what they like than what they dislike.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2015, 10:39:51 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 07, 2015, 10:03:13 pmDepression is the same way, if sustained deep depression exists in a person it causes changes in the brain that may not be reversible.You are what you think...

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 12:17:25 am
content: Quote from: Marco on November 07, 2015, 10:03:13 pmQuote from: AF6LJ on November 07, 2015, 10:39:51 pmThat is true and it then becomes a question of cause and effect which is interesting but for the purpose of this discussion, does it really matter? The fact the individual clearly shows physical anomalies and their condition is interfering with their ability to do their job and maintain personal relationships shows they need help. My issue with Galenbo's response was he implied that this is not the case when it clearly is.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 12:41:44 am
content: They should be offered help, but if the only help they want to accept is accommodation on their terms that doesn't mean we should give it to them. No more than we have to give the motorcrosser his dirt course.Even if the personal cost/benefit was there for these people (which is pretty much open question) it still doesn't mean it has to make sense for society. Monetary costs might be deemed too high, or the cost of encouraging copycats who would otherwise be able to adapt to a mostly normal life without surgery, etc.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 03:12:40 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 08, 2015, 12:17:25 amActually it does matter there are viruses that are composed of thoughts that infect the weak.Take the copy cat effect for example. We have seen time and time again where someone does something, it makes the news and others follow suite.Katlin Jenner.Renee Richards..Eric Harris and Dylan KleboldTo name a few.Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 04:21:56 am
content: @OP TL;DR - well, I read some of it but then you went on and off on weird tangents.Gender imbalance in a large work place, in a discipline, or even in a hobbyist organisation makes things relatively dull and boring. The work/play you do might be interesting but the human/social dynamic is a lot more vibrant when there is a good balance between males and females. Creativity of the group as a whole is enhanced.I've participated in scientific conferences in various disciplines from computing through physics to biology, with 95+% male attendance to ~40% male attendance, and the highly male dominated ones suffer from lack of interaction and communication when compared with a nearer to 50/50 mix of participants. This is very readily apparent during the lunch/tea breaks and after-hours social activities, where the real exchange of ideas takes place. Same goes for large work places like e.g. university departments or research organisations.I cannot speak for highly female dominated settings because I've never experienced them; but large mostly-male sci/eng organisations tend to make for dull social environments. For small teams (say < 6 people) working towards a common goal, gender balance does not seem to matter much. People's competence at their jobs is what matters. Gender balance is more important for larger more loosely connected groups of people with related interests, for facilitating communication, interaction and collaboration.Speaking from personal experience as a male scientist. I have no data to back up any of this.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 02:37:21 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 12:41:44 amWhat makes you believe a large number of those with gender dysphoria demand costly surgery? As surgery is irreversible, any decent, ethical healthcare provider should explore other treatment options before considering surgery, irrespective of cost, as is the case for other medical conditions.As far as cost/benefit ratio to society; that is also an open question. As with any medical condition, if a person is able to get a higher paid job and take less time off sick, as a result of being treated by the public health system, they'll pay the money back in taxes.Quote from: AF6LJ on November 08, 2015, 03:12:40 amYet another silly comparison: transexuals to mass murderers!It's far more likely, in the case of those with gender dysphoria, they came out after a famous person did, because it made them feel more comfortable with doing so. It doesn't mean people develop gender dysphoria, as a result of a celebrity experiencing it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 03:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 08, 2015, 02:37:21 pmI took it as a sarcastic dig at me, the copycat effect in general and the Columbine effect specifically is real though.QuoteBut they will be more ready to seek out surgery, especially if it's glamorized and the more average post surgery transsexuals and botched transitions are shoved under rug (they will be familiarized with the risks when they chose surgery, but first impressions matter). Some might say repression isn't healthy but sex reassignment surgery definitely isn't either.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 03:36:20 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 03:05:42 pmBut can you say the same for the escalation in reports of rape since society woke up and said "we can't trust our celebrities and glamorise them to the point of ignoring claims of them committing rape". In the Uk a famouse presenter (jimmy saville) after his death has been found to be a serial rapist and child sex abuser, also many of his contemporaries have also been found out, so where as in the past these girls were told to shut up and go away people and no one talked about it accused them no we are starting to listen, unsurprisingly many people have come out of the woodwork saying that they have been encouraged by others stories and are now willing to tell theirs.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 04:06:40 pm
content: An unreported rapist is likely to rape again, someone who doesn't feel comfortable in his own body might be hurt by that compared to the alternative (or might be saved from a painful and costly mistake) but they are unlikely to hurt the rest of society as a result.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 04:09:33 pm
content: My point was that you claim celebrity association makes people want to "copy" them, yet when over here celebrities were found to be the doers of evil and once they were in the headlines more and more people felt like coming out and telling their story because they felt they could be listened to. I know it's not quite the same.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 05:12:14 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 08, 2015, 02:37:21 pmLiving on the edge of a gay ghetto, I see quite a bit on my walks to the post office three or more times a week. Seems lately that pretending to be a woman is a fad that has taken over some parts of the country.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 05:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on November 08, 2015, 05:12:14 pmStats about the trans community are very hard to come by except for one, and that's that about a quarter of transgender people who get surgery are FTM. I think if you take into account that it's much easier for women to pass as men with no medical intervention at all, surgery to change their nether regions is harder and more expensive if possible, and that just hormones will make a much bigger difference for women than men it wouldn't surprise me that women "pretending to be" men, as you put it, are at least 30-40% of trans people and probably about as common.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:02:47 pm
content: There is monetary incentive for men to dress like a woman and possibly getting a boob job (removal of their genitals not so much though). I doubt there would be so many without that.PS. Tangerine didn't blow me away as a comedy, but the fact that it was shot on an iphone with a tiny steadycam rig did.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:03:53 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 06:02:47 pmHow, where ? what did I miss ?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:07:48 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 08, 2015, 06:03:53 pmI'm talking about Ladyboys and prostitution, I just tried to keep it subtle and failed.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:09:11 pm
content: hm, any proof ? people seem to talk about gender identity like trying to work out which make of scope to buy.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:10:52 pm
content: You do not watch the right videos from a small shop Simon.............. Can be an eye opener....

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 08, 2015, 06:10:52 pmI'm too busy trying to make more money

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:13:52 pm
content: I know all the staff, as they are next door to me...... I don't buy from them though, way too much info shared.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:15:05 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 08, 2015, 06:13:52 pmRightwe will beleive you

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:22:54 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 08, 2015, 06:15:05 pmOwner lives in Australia now, near Dave.........

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:39:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 08, 2015, 06:09:11 pmI'll leave proof to mathematicians, but I doubt Thailand has so many purely because of body identity issues.PS. Thai ladyboy escort services apparently charge more than Thai female escort services, I won't link any evidence since the links are not only NSFW they aren't safe for any where.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 06:39:36 pmHm what are the lives of people in Tailand like ? are they well paid, do they have state support if they have no job or is it one of those countries where you go over there and can have your way for not much money in your money but lots in theirs (Hero should know something about that he's been there), I seem to remember there being a thing with "tai brides" wonder why that is. I think we were talking about people choosing based on how they identify in a country where they have no other pressure to do so.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 06:52:04 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 03:05:42 pmNo I was responding to AF6LJ's post which listed transexuals together with mass murderers.QuoteThat's why we need excellent healthcare, both mental and physical, so all of the different treatment options are explored and patients are made aware of the risks.Quote from: Marco on November 08, 2015, 06:07:48 pmWhat makes you believe people change their gender for the purposes of prostitution? Some homosexual men make quite a lot of money from prostitution.Perhaps is more likely some transgender people turn to prostitution to cover debts incurred from surgery? This seems to be more common in countries such as Thailand were healthcare isn't so widely affordable/available than in Europe.Quote from: AF6LJ on November 08, 2015, 05:12:14 pmHomosexuality is totally different to transgender and not all cross-dressers are transgender or homosexual. For example , tere are those who transition from male to female and are homosexual and therefore attracted to women.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2015, 07:07:13 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 08, 2015, 06:09:11 pmNo kidding it is like.."should I get a Harley or new private parts?"