Rigol 1052e Fan Replacement - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: phunk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 10, 2010, 05:36:40 pm
content: Hey guys,i´ve been visiting this site from time to time and bought a Rigol 1052e latelydue to the blog episode, the many good reviews and other recommendations.Like most people i am pretty happy with it. One big thing that bothers me thoughis the annoying fan noise, that is IMO quite distracting/disturbing in a quiteDIYers paradise.Long story short, i decided to take the thing apart and replace the fan withoutworsing the overall cooling of the scope and i think that worked out very well.1. You void your Warranty and 120V/240V is lethal, so do this at your own riskThe factory mounted fan that came with my Rigol was a "GLOFN GFA06015H12H".That is a 60x60mm running with 5500rpm @12V DC. According to the manufacturerswebsite it has an air flow of 34.2m3/h and makes 36.5dBA noise, thus no wonderit´s getting a little louder in the room when powering on the chinese friend...Replacing the factory fan with just another 60x60mm fan, that hasthe same air flow specs wouldnt make much sense IMO, since you probablywont find one that is significantly quiter because the downside of high air flow is high revolutionrelating to the area.But the people over at Rigol constructed the inner metal case in a very interestingway. It is exactly 80mm wide and thus could be a perfect housing for a 80x80mmfan. Infact it cant be mounted flat on the side like the 60mm fan due to thebend of the case but it doesnt have to since the airflow must go out throughthe fan hole...and the shape of the case supports that like a tunnel.The nice thing about 80mm fans is that they can have equivalentor more air flow with less rpm. I chose a "Noiseblocker M8-S2" (Germany based companywww.noiseblocker.de)with 47m3/h @1700rpm and 14(!) dBA. The construction features4 rubber edges to prevent vibrating.So how do you mount it? Well...simply squeeze it in. Thanks to the80mm case it fits perfectly tight and is fixed without any screws, hotglue, double sided tape or whatever.You could do that of course if you feel more comfortable ...Anything else i did was shortening the cable and soldering a jack fitting the pcb.If your fan is a little smaller or not totally even, just put some foamin between (not needed with the NB Fan though)The result is a considerably more quiet fan with better air flow specs.Not unhearable but more like a whispering than a hairdryer.The scope is running fine for hours now. I´ve not measured temperatureso far but its definately not getting hotter than before.The next step would be a temperature controlled fan regulator.One could realise it with just a few parts and a NTC mounted onthe heatsink of the LM317 (definately the hottest part in the scope).That would probably further reduce rpm. IMO Not needed though.I recorded a comparison with a voice mic i had laying around here.Nothing normed or so... just 15cm clearance from the mic to the scope.1st: with noiseblocker2nd: factory fan3rd: both crossfadedhttp://rapidshare.com/files/436125565/Rigol_Noise_Comparison.mp3------------------2 hours running, air temperature measured directly at the outlet 30.5 grad celsius:Have fun,Alex

author: Zyvek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2010, 11:04:45 pm
content: Nice work! Thanks for posting this, it was always disappointing that my new Rigol was louder than my 20+ year old Tektronix scopes!

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2010, 12:31:48 am
content: Great mod! Neat, effective and it'll be great to reduce the fan noise, thanks!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2010, 06:26:56 am
content: I bet that there is room for one fan duct 60 -->80mm , but the point is that this size its not an widespread one .

author: phunk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 11, 2010, 08:01:46 am
content: Hi Kirikaos,yes, that would be definately an option if you find one commercial with the right shape or have one milled out of POM or a similar cheap and easy to handle plastic.Nevertheless that would be more a cosmetic advantage than a technicalDue to the bend in the case and the replacement fan clipped in 2-3cm (1inch) away from the side,air flow is directed straight through the hole.The nice thing about the mod is that it is so easy but yet effective.Alex

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2010, 12:22:09 pm
content: Great idea! It would have been good to prove absolutely nothing has changed:Check ambient temperature outflow with the old fan and new fan and compare.Since we know now the main ADC are overclocked quite a bit, they must get very hot, so cooling is very important.If you can't do it now that your unit is modded, one substitute is simply check the outflow temperature of your current set up at the outside of the case, after giving the scope 1-2 hours to fully warm up. Just post it; if other readers can post theirs unmodded temps; I'll post mine, include your room temperature too. I'll presume your room temperature is 20C or 68F or near those even in the winter so our values will be pretty close.

author: phunk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2010, 03:49:32 pm
content: Updated my post above. Temperature with the upgraded fan is 30.5 grad celsius after running for two hours measured directly at the outlet.Room temperature is 22 grad celsius.IMO the main ADCs aren´t getting hot at all. They´re fully covered by a sheet metal case that is dissipating the heat into the air very well and is just getting a little warm but not hot. Hottest part in the scope ist definately the PSU.If you ask me the engineers at Rigol didnt bother measuring and calculating temperature and airflow for the specific scope model but took the cheapest fan available on the market with the highest specs like "one fits all".I very much doubt the scope would die without any fan...

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2010, 04:42:44 pm
content: Thanks for feedback. FYI with my room temperature 75F or23.9C,the output temperature of the Rigol 1052E on the stock fan was 88F or31.1Cafter 3 hours.I'd read this as we are about the same. So your mod maintains the same ambient case temperatures of the Rigol with less noise.Quote from: phunk on December 13, 2010, 03:49:32 pm

author: phunk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2010, 05:29:42 pm
content: Quotewhich prooves the considerations made and the specs in the datasheets...

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2010, 11:01:57 pm
content: Have you tried zooming all the way in with no input connected and comparing to before the mod? Make sure your new fan is not causing EMI.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2010, 07:54:32 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on December 13, 2010, 11:01:57 pmoh don't worry PSU does that already, remember all the fuss I made in the beginning about screening it ? I had some success with foil covered card but never got around to doing a steel screen - one day.yea fan is quite noisy and the psu heat sinks DO get hot

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2010, 04:30:55 am
content: How do you like your iMac?(Sorry, couldn't resist)

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2010, 05:26:52 am
content: On ECEN 489 network project day (over a week ago), I noticed that my Instek GDS-1062A got warm after running for a few hours for the demo. Just yesterday, I replaced the fan with a more powerful one I had lying around. Now I notice more airflow and it doesn't get warm enough to notice. Hopefully, that will allow it to last longer and have a slightly lower noise floor.

author: markman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2010, 10:19:13 pm
content: Great write up.For what it's worth, I found the biggest heatsink on the power supply was cooler when the fan was not ducted so much, but allowed a little back flow around the bottom side. The 80mm fan I used was quieter and internal temperatures were cooler that way.http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16198044&postcount=941http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16200345&postcount=943

author: neoone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2011, 03:34:44 pm
content: Hello!I've just finished "upgradeing" my RIGOL with a new fan. I've used Roxo 80mm Ultra Silent fan from polish brand Fander (www.fander.pl). It's specs are: 1350rpm, 13.4dBA, 26.9CFM (45.7m3/h), 1.8W. It is similar to Noiseblocker M8-S2 but in the store where i bought mine Noiseblocker costs about 59 PLN (14.75E, 20$) and Fander was only 15PLN (3.75E, 5$) so it is really cheap but I've used those fans before and there are no problems with them.I've added some rubber on 3 sides of the fan (actually it is no needed on the top an bottom) using double sided tape.Then I also changed connectors and insulated yellow wire.Here's how it looks. Just to be sure that the fan is stady mounted I've added a bit of wire which is going through fan mounting holes and than through upper metal holster.Everything seems to work fine and I didn't notice air temperature rising. RIGOL now only wispers and is much more silent than my PC ;-)

author: bmarimba
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 07, 2011, 08:17:54 pm
content: Interesting. Anybody considered replacing of the LM317 with a suitable DC-DC converter. Thus the radiator of lm317 can go and perhaps the fan too. What voltage does the LM317 provide there?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2011, 06:15:25 am
content: a DC/DC converter would be switchmode, the LM317 is a linear reg. Maybe a switchmode would make too much noise

author: jedreg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2011, 12:28:56 pm
content: I made up short photo-story on case opening and fan replacement; it may be valuable for any newbie (like me) who opens this box first time:http://amichalec.net/2011/03/rigol-ds1053e-silenced/cheers,-andy.

author: fminne
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2011, 05:03:23 pm
content: I wasn’t that keen on changing the fan with a bigger one. I preferred to keep the size of the original fan, namely 60mm.I tried some different types, but now I installed the Sanyo Denki 9S0612F4011. This is a low noise fan with noise figure: 20 dBA (the original one= 36,5dBA) and the result is acceptable. The temperature of the Rigol stays, after 2 hours, as low as before: 27,1°C with a room temperature of 20,0°C. The airflow is still significant (29,4m³/h compared to 34,2 m³:h for the original), so I am very sure that no damage will occur due to too high temperature inside the scope. The Rigol 1052E noise isn’t annoying any more during operation. So the aim of the modification is reached.I bought this fan at Farnell (item 1755864), but I am convinced that one can find it in many other stores.

author: torch
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 03:18:21 am
content: I finally got around to some measurements.My DS1052E, with the stock fan, emits 56dB (C-weighted) at 6" from the fan outlet. That's barely a whisper; the florescent light fixture in the shop is emitting 54dB. The temperature rise after 2 hours running (2ns, so it's forcing the full 1GB/s sample rate, both channels active connected to the probe calibration point) is 15°F (8°C).I wonder if Rigol listened to the complaints and changed the fan? Or maybe the cheapest fan happens to be quieter.Are the noisy fans blowing into the case, or out? Mine blows out. I recall one fix for some noisy PSU fans used to be to turn the fan around to change the airflow characteristics.

author: Slasher006
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 02:04:57 pm
content: That's my question too. Which direction? Should the "new" fan blow out or into the Device? (i will use a 80mm fan)

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 03:03:58 pm
content: I wonder if something likethiswould be worth fitting

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 05:15:19 pm
content: fan should be blowing out, not in, just that simple*. you dont want to blow dust or anything inside your equipment (think if you spill water near it). and vents are provided from any corner for air to slowly going in. and you cannot block that vents (by the book).*exception:unless you know what you're doing, you can blow them in

author: Slasher006
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 05:55:17 pm
content: Ok, thanks.

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 05:58:27 pm
content: Changing the fan from facing out to facing in might make some difference in noise level. Adding a spacer between the fan and the air output screen might also lower the fan noise level. When my Rigol is out of warranty, I intend to install a larger fan spaced back from the output screen with a funnel shaped air guide. A larger fan, spinning at a lower rate, can move the same amount of air as a smaller fan, normally resulting in less fan noise.The idea of reversing the airflow makes me think of the computer that I used in a rental equipment repair shop. The dust level was horrendous. With the computer case fans blowing out, the case would suck air and dust in every crevice of the case. That means the CD-ROM was rendered useless in short order. After thinking about it for a while, I added 120mm intake fans to the front of the computer case resulting in the case being slightly pressurized. That means that air and dust would come in from the front of the computer and have a fair amount of space to settle out of the air before reaching the CD-ROM on the way out of the case. Of course, in such a dusty environment regular cleaning was required, but the CD-ROM drives went from being replaced every three months to lasting for years.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2011, 06:12:25 pm
content: Quote from: Russel on May 02, 2011, 05:58:27 pmthats the idea. i have mind the same, fan blowing in, but gotta put air filter before it (outside casing). but i dont think there will be cd-rom in the rigol, unless you want something (filter) poking out side of your unit.

author: Russel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2011, 03:33:15 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 02, 2011, 06:12:25 pmApologies for straying off topic.The dust in the shop environment that I was talking about was so bad that adding filters to the fans did more harm than good. Unless you cleaned the filters daily, the filters would clog up and actually hinder the airflow to the point that the CPU would begin to overheat. Having more fans blowing into the computer case (without filters)than out was a strange and counter intuitive solution to CD-ROM destruction, but it worked. I really went against the grain with me, using a computer in such an environment.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2011, 04:59:39 am
content: i dont understand why would people call this off topic.btw my pc mod fan that blowing in got very dirty filter now, i dont have time to clean up. so now it works as normal like before it was modded, ie the psu fan is blowing out, negative pressure inside and my cdrom start to collect dust now. and i'm not talking cpu fan mate, i dont touch that bundled original fan, if i touch that, i think i'm going to screw the cpu. i'm talking ventilation fan. so back to rigol, if somebody want to make the fan blowing in, then they have to make a filter and necessary step in case it got clogged up. that why in my topmost post said..."you have to know what you are doing".

author: BobD
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 01, 2011, 03:36:38 pm
content: Now done in Germany, works beautifully. The Rigol can hardly be heard with no other noise in the room.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2011, 08:31:52 am
content: Hmmm.. my Rigol is also very quiet. No obtrusive fan noise -- although if I listen carefully I can tell it's turning.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2011, 07:22:15 pm
content: Fan blowing in or out has been alway a big debate.When designing BIG power amplifiers, my colleagues and I discussed a lot about this, and resorted to test temperatures inside the amplifiers, with both airflow directions.The result was this: the fan must BLOW IN , if we are searching for the better heat transfer.The reason are two:first: the heat removed is proportional to air MASS, not to air VOLUME, cold air is denser than hot hair, so the fan must move cold (external) air inside the hot internal space of the equipment.We measured temperatures 5 to 10 °C lower in a 2 KW amplifier.second: the fan's motor and bearings will live longer if their temperature is lower, so it must move cold air.I see two (lower value) advantages for fan blowing out:first: a lower noise level, due to the fan's blades being farther from case's grille when blowing out.second: dust, cat's fur and other pollution are evenly dispersed inside the case, and not clogging the intake fan, but this depends on intake fan's speed: a low-speed, large fan remains usually more clean than a fast, small one.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2011, 09:08:11 pm
content: Funny, with computers with low-speed fans negative pressure usually works better. Of course these are complex systems with often multiple fans and many obstructions in the airflow path. It probably depends on the design of the equipment and the temperatures involved.I'm sure both arguments you state are valid, but I would expect the airflow design to be more important. Blowing in is easy: the air stream is focused, so you just point it at the hottest component. It also introduces more turbulence. Blowing out requires attention to the airflow so the hot components receive enough airflow. For this reason, I would be careful changing the direction without careful analysis.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2011, 12:12:57 am
content: blowing in directly to the subject surface is called "spot" cooling, you cool that particular spot the most at times, as opposed to "ambient" cooling (blow out, not sure the exact name) where you will stabilized temp throughout space (averagely). it will depend on where you fan is blowing and what application.

author: vtl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2011, 03:34:10 am
content: I've seen most people are replacing the fan which I think is quite puzzling. Theres actually nothing wrong with the stock fan, I took mine out and its actually pretty quiet. Its just the poor design of the vents that create a lot of turbulence and noise.You can buy fan adapters that just uses a series resistor to drop the voltage and hence speed of the fan, typically on the order of <100OhmsI measured the fan voltage to be around 10v (not sure if the fan is variable speed or not) and hooked the fan to a bench PSU. After playing with some resistor values I notice that something like 20 ohms would give a decent drop down to 7 or so volts. Its surprising how quickly 1/4 watt resistors can heat up so I put 3 68R resistors in parallel to give a value of around 23 Ohms and share the current between them. Heatshrinked to make it look somewhat neater and now the fan is quiet. Measured the temps and all is well.If you don't want to butcher your stock fan then you can make up some kind of fan adapter if you like. The plastic fan header you can just lift out and put any 3 pin fan on it.The 7905 gets pretty hot because of no heatsinking and is placed right next to a bunch of caps. Too bad it was not designed to just be bolted to the chassis for heatsinking.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2011, 04:39:41 am
content: Nicely done, vtl!Though it is not directly relevant to this thread, I think I should cite one of my replies regarding thehigh amounts of heatgenerated by the PSU losseswithinthe device:Quote from: A Hellene on June 19, 2011, 05:09:38 pm(Emphasis is mine)In short, the major heat sources of the PSU are:4.5W by the TOP247 and the flyback coil (the "transformer") of the PSU3.6W by the 317T regulator on heatsink1.7W by the Schottky rectifier on heatsink1.1W by the LM7905 regulator ((-11V-(-5V))*(-335mA-(-150mA)) = 1.11W)0.4W by the MUR460 rectifier... totaling in an amount of 11.3W dissipated heat that continuously builds up within the case and does not produce any useful work other than heating the device up.These 11.3 Watts of heat are generated by the PSU components ONLY (meaning that there is another 11W dissipated by the actual oscilloscope circuitry, like the other on-board linear voltage regulators and the components running at 100MHz++ frequencies) and they should somehow be forced out of the DS1000 casing before doing any damage.-George

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2012, 10:40:54 pm
content: Yet another silent running one. 80X80X25mm 1600 RPM 12V 80mA 18dBA GELID fan. Got it from EBAY a long time now but I did not bother the PITA modding till my last long session with the 1052E that its hairdryer howl while I was troubleshooting a high voltage circuit trying to focus not to fry myself, brought me near to really smashing up the bugger. The noise reduction result is dramatic. From annoying level to not noticing level. This one is 100 MHz also of course. If one's got to void it, then void it in stereo modding I say.Thanking all for the tips & guides.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2012, 05:15:04 am
content: Not owning one of these ( and i would like to) I woyuld also recommend cutting out that stamped grille, and using the existing holes for the old fan to mount a wire grille.That will increase airflow a lot, and if there is a external grille then the internal one is not needed. This works for me on PC cases, as they generally are quieter with a wire grille and have more airflow.With the 7905 on the board a small tag will make it run cooler, with no other mod required. Just cut a strip as wide as the casing and about twice as long, and bolt it to the regulator.

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2012, 04:16:52 pm
content: 30C tops with the laser aim handgun thermometer straight and close to the plastic shell's exits after an hour of both channels running is the result of the above mod. Since the 7905 is sideways located in front of the larger fan now, I hope it benefits a bit better than before also.

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2013, 02:45:50 am
content: For the those who had asked me, the original fan has this spec: GLOFN GFA06015H12H, 5500rpm @12V DC, 34.2m3/h. 36.5dBA noise.1 m3/h = 0.5885745 CFM. So 34.2m3/h translates to 20.13 CFM.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 12:03:19 pm
content: Great mod, the original 60 mm fan is way too noisy.The pictures embedded in the OP has gone missing at the image hosting site and I can see "phunk" hasn't logged in to this forum since January 2011.But fortunately I saved an offline copy of this topic a long time ago. So here's the OP with the pictures inserted again and attached to this post, so they should be staying this time regardless of any image hosting site.Quote from: phunk on December 10, 2010, 05:36:40 pm

author: Drewbie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 02:19:44 am
content: Considering the outer case plastic case has a grille of its own, that inner stamped steel grille seems unneeded and looks like it would limit air flow quite significantly.Before going out and buying a new fan, for a quick fix that might see a reduction in noise level (enough to make it bearable) would be to just cut that metal grille out of the steel case?Anyone got a sound level meter and a pair of tinsnips handy?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 02:03:38 pm
content: Wouldn't that affect radiated emissions (EMI)?

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 03:05:33 pm
content: I replaced the fan with a new one I had bought at Conrad Electronic in germany.NB-BlackSilentFan XR1ultra quiet60x60x25 mm9-12V18 m3/h11dB/AI also used the "NB-slics" for vibration-free assembly.No problems since several month.

author: Drewbie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 02:35:51 am
content: Quote from: alm on November 24, 2013, 02:03:38 pmGood point.Fromhttp://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/it appears that cutting out the current grill and using a separate wire grill would help noise levels, and maintain EMI protection.

author: Woodside
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 06, 2014, 06:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: jedreg on March 29, 2011, 12:28:56 pmThanks for that, very useful.I replaced my fan with the NB BlackSilentfan XR2 and am really please with the noise reduction. I used the NB slics for mounting, with thin foam around the fan edges to seal against the case. I also taped the holes as discussed by LvdK in your post.I now see temperatures of 54 deg C directly on the LM317 heatsink (thermocouple poked through the case onto the heatsink) and 28 deg C directly in the fan airflow outside the case (19 deg C ambient). Unfortunately I forgot to measure the LM317 temperature before doing the mod, so don't know if it has gone up.Has anyone measured the LM317 heatsink temperature prior to modification?

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 08:33:43 pm
content: Quote from: Woodside on March 06, 2014, 06:10:10 pmI see, the X2 is the faster one:XR-1 / 1600rpm / 11 dBA / 18.0 m3XR-2 / 2200rpm / 15 dBA / 24.0 m3I get ~30 deg C airflow temp with the X1 fan. (22C room temp)