I Tried To Make Something In America (The Smarter Scrubber Experiment) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 02:49:52 am
content: Found this video about a popular YouTuber trying to manufacture something in the US exclusively.Valuable for the all the requirements and roadblocks he arrived at and knowledge for anyone who doesn't know the full process that goes into it.Another video who touches in detail tooling for metal stamping:What can be improved on the design itself, how someone would do things differently in the product design itself? Or simply don't develop it and focus in more important things and leave this kind of products for other to make outside of the US.Please try not to turn it into politics, sticky to the manufacturing part. Or I will ask for the thread to be blocked at the minimum hint of a politics discussion.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:01:24 am
content: I watched that yesterday. I'm not sure how much of the whole process he was just doing to follow the youtube video formula script, but the TLDR of it all is...No. He did not only use US manufacturers. He certainly could have, but he made the choice not to. Which is strange considering his stated goal (emphasized over and over) was to make everything in the USA, and that was the point he was trying to make but didn't actually do.I guess I did get "smarter every day" through, because I didn't know that wire brush grill scrapers are such a health hazard.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:18:45 am
content: I think what you need is part time subcontractors for bigger manufacturers that need stuff, aka people that invested in capital and need side money from other enterprise. They are the ones that actually have expertise and equipment.Part of it is a culture shift requirement to take smaller more temporary jobs on by people with capital equipmentvendors that atrophy to basically fuse with mega corporations are not going to be helping out people trying to make scrubbers or other random ass home goodsI think it would start with MBA teachings and having sales people from companies actually take something seriously @ a low quantity. They are actively told not to deal with small fish.The requirement that you need to meet something as being profitable (in eyes of share holders) is very difficultAnother problem is they don't have contacts anymore (try getting hold of someone) and also meeting overburden (how many meetings need to be held to authorize something? how many meetings will be canceled if someone asks for a 'bottom line' regarding expected net profit?).. suddenly to make small sales work you need to authorize engineering and manufacturing to work on their own to deal with little customers. That kind of power is difficult to give to people. There is very little security with how things are structured currently to give you any power, because any side jobs will be considered a scape goat towards any defects that occur. When you have over bearing paperwork and documentation requirements for things, that is sometimes alone to make smaller customers not possible because of some high level irrelevant business directives. They simply cannot trust someone to say 'we used the resources to deal with these guys and WE had a good feeling about starting this deal' when WE does not go up to the very top, because then someone can't figure out exactly how to skim it from the top.you can be in a situation where there is a delay (not caused by you) but if you take on other work during this time on your own recognizance instead of 'trouble shooting' a issue that can't be trouble shooted or is currently like 'burned out' then you will get in trouble, but if you don't do anything it will be fine.Even between departments, do you really help? I noticed its a sure fire way for things to go wrong, ends up having to go through a boss that is way too high to deal with the 'situation' and they won't even remember it and its not clear how to document the help and no one wants to figure out HOW it should work, even if it works good and there is clear benefit for everyone. Haha, imagine taking on jobs JUST to hone your skill? (because that is the one thing you won't mis calculate, the skill that you built dealing with the request). In theory there is a guy (upper middle manager) that should be able to take care of this. In reality he is so booked and overloaded that you better not bother, he is already on thin ice for stuff he can't control and hardly needs more dispersion. If he had help, then eventually for maybe a month there might be a short period of time where his 'helper' is slightly UNDERLOADED and that is not viable for business reasons.tldr : accounting and trust issues

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:22:12 am
content: I think the obvious upshot of this is that we (the US, and not sure about other places that aren't China or India) are well and truly fucked.We gave away our manufacturing base and have nobody to blame but ourselves.The guy who made the video is earnest and intelligent, and also maybe a bit too forgiving, but his story speks for itself.Politics? How about just hard, old reality.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:40:28 am
content: I think manufacturing works there because the documents and stuff are hacked, they expect you to 'earn' (street stuff) instead of document. Great for lower tech industries but the thing is now low tech NEEDS high tech and you get insane quality problems (requires a middle ground)also requires competent/skilled oversight so people that make viability determinations don't flip out and determine something never works because the test case happened to be some insanely complicated shit that looked simpleDon't you love when there is something already in place that everyone takes for granted, then someone eventually wants to do something that seems conceptually easy for them with it, and then when its studied it turns out everyone is living in LA LA land (no idea how it actually works and that its poorly implemented in the first place, with totally wrong assumptions that happened to work enough not to be out right detected) but they can't accept that, so you get like a blanket ruling. Kind of like plowing a field, finding a civil war era 150 year old land mine, and then assuming every field in the state is going to have the same difficulty and deciding not to plow, ever. Or like if someone assumes that something is working BECAUSE _____ and it turns out its working because total chance and no one ever got the initial ___ and there is no ____ to start with and its based on a wild guess and then no one can do anything because you don't have ______ .

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:56:19 am
content: It's much easier to spin up you own small 1-5 person manufacturing company in china and make a really good profit than it is to do the same in the USA.Some of that is due to less rules/regulation/tax/government hurdles you have to go through and the costs involved of doing so.A lot of that stuff was created/designed for big companies who can employ someone fulltime to deal with it. Which is very burdensome for a small company to deal with as they usually have to contract it out at a high cost.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 04:59:35 am
content: "Made in America" labels, with India-China sourced Chainmail (the most integral part), and Costa Rican knobs. Reminds me of a case we had here in NZ a while back, stuff labelled "Made in NZ" that wasn't, they argued "the labels are Made in NZ!"Cuisinart has had this same concept but cheaper that has more functionality than his and has been on the market for a while -https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cuisinart-3-in-1-Chainmail-Grill-Cleaner/15324408754- so if they copied him, before his was released, his whole "I don't make in China because they steal all your stuff" didn't work out too well.The only reason he can make this work, is because his subscribers will buy this very overpriced tool, because he made it.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 05:51:24 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 10, 2025, 04:59:35 amI think china has given us an unrealistic expectation of what's overpriced.$74.99 doesn't seem very overpriced to me as long as it works much better than the $10 china version and is still working in 15 years time.For a good quality BBQ scrubber which lasts 15 years I reckon it would have to get to $120 before I'd call it overpriced.But I would have to either try it myself or see a legit independent review before I'd consider paying $74.99 for one. It does actually need to last for that price.Reminds me of the LTT screwdriver. It's around that price. It works really well and has the 'feel' of quality in a lot of different ways.There's lots of people who don't even know Linux/LTT who are buying the LTT screwdriver because it's good.There's definitely a market for quality things once its clear they really are quality goods.It's not a huge market, but it's not tiny.Personally, can openers piss me off, I just want one made from proper materials that lasts more than a year or two.I'd pay $120 for that if I knew it would last 15 years like the 80's ones did.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 07:33:33 am
content: I thought it was a great way to show that a manufacturing ecosystem is far more complex than most people realise. Even the labels have suppliers of paper, ink, adhesive, then you need a printer and on it goes.I would have liked to know what the capital cost of tooling was.I couldn't help wondering how long before someone in China copies it. Or the idea at least.I'd have also like to know how long it would have taken to go to China and get it made there. Just by way of comparison.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:30:50 am
content: You can ask yourself if it is even possible to make something with only nationally sourced materials.Take a small country like the Netherlands, not much natural resources to be mined, so this already brings a dependency on other nations.With cost of living being higher than in developing countries, products will always be more expensive when produced locally, and that is fine to some extend, as long as the quality is better and the product lasts longer.Things that drive up the price are the venture capitalists that want to see big return on investments, which is kind of what brought on the move to low wage countries in the first place. Maximizing profits.Greed is a nasty thing.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:45:09 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on June 10, 2025, 07:33:33 amNot sure what that patent label from the video was about, but chain scrubbers existed before:https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chain+scrubber+barbeque&t=ffab&ia=images&iax=imageshttps://www.amazon.com/Bristle-Cleaning-Scrubber-Barbeque-Chainmail/dp/B0D3LMS7JM

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:32:38 am
content: I'm not surprised you can't get anything done in the USA. I'm in the EU and I have tried several times to get something made here in the EU. Anything which doesn't fit a simple manufacturing process is almost impossible. With simple processes I mean laser cutting, CNC bending, milling...I don't have my hopes up high for the future. My cousin is a metalwork teacher. He told me that for the last 20 years his classes have become more like occupational therapy because the majority of students have no interest in such things. Only the the stuff appearing on their screens seems interesting to them. Ironically, they told him it was his fault students weren't interested and that he needed to make his lessons more captivating.

author: BadeBhaiya
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 12:24:08 pm
content: I like the video. I have no manufacturing background but I too see the lack of manufacturing and its surrounding culture in India compared to our Chinese neighbours in the East. Its systemic, although stemming from different reasons than the ones listed in the video.As an engineer, one of our worst nightmare should always be having no one around us who can manufacture our designs. Because if we are designing something that cannot be manufactured...what use are our skills?

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 12:26:17 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on June 10, 2025, 03:22:12 amAnd I would say it's exactly the same here in the UK. We did it to ourselves.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 01:42:30 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on June 10, 2025, 05:51:24 amJust remember, its 75 USD. (~125 NZD, like 10 blocks of cheese) before you take into account sales tax and shipping. For a scraper.Now as for can openers, after going through many, KISS, the hook knife type ones work fine if you're not feeble and there's nothing to break.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 02:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on June 10, 2025, 05:51:24 amI don't need things to last 15 years. Especially things having to do with food. Eventually things get grimy and hard to clean, any sponges disintegrate. This needs to be supplied with 15 years or parts, which is not going to happen or I can't reasonably expect this to happen.Quote from: Psi on June 10, 2025, 05:51:24 amThis is true too. It is hard to build the reputation and many companies instantly squander it as soon as it happens.Quote from: Psi on June 10, 2025, 05:51:24 amI've used red Japanese one (Gangy Kankiri) for a very long time. It works perfectly and there is nothing that can really break there, it is just two fixed parts. It is also $10.I've also had a chance to use an 80s Soviet one that I thought was pretty good. It is not that good. I would not swap it for the modern one for sure.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 02:38:46 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on June 10, 2025, 09:30:50 amI'm not so sure about that. What venture capitalists do is invest in mass producing stuff to make it cheaper to a point where a maximum number of people can buy the product while obtaining a decent profit. Somewhere in the 1990's I bought my first PC monitor. A crappy 14" CRT model for 720 euro in today's money. Nowadays you can by a high quality 32" TFT monitor for half that amount.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 04:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2025, 02:38:46 pmMaybe in the past, but I don't see this happening now.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 05:04:27 pm
content: Unless one has been involved in manufacturing, most people do not realize how difficult and complex manufacturing is. Certainly politicians don’t have a clue. And capitalism doesn’t care either, all they want is to meet the quarterly financial projections, for the benefit of their stock.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 06:08:08 pm
content: I watched this video on the recommendation of a friend. And found it both interesting and misleading.The fact that manufacturing in much of the western world has been hollowed out is real. And the current situation is not long term sustainable.The reasons are much more complex than he stated. He didn't mention many of the roadblocks to manufacturing in Western Europe and the US (Environmental regulation, quality of life rules, social pressures like NIMBY) which affect the whole supply chain from mining on up. Also, while I can't speak for the whole western world here in the US there is a heavy dose of the old rock tune with the lyric "I want my money for nothing and chicks for free".The skills difficulties he mentions are real, but I don't believe nearly as formidable as he suggests. Things like speeds and feeds for machining are well documented, and as the engineer he claims to be should have been far less of a barrier than he represents. The basics of tool and die making are also pretty well documented. In many ways these processes are easier than before because CAD CAM software has automated much of it and provided tools to evaluate quite a bit of the rest.While Apple may say there is no effect from wage disparity, in a global market even a ten percent disparity will end up pushing work in the low wage direction. Particularly in the design and tooling part of the manufacturing process where there are no shipment costs, but actually everywhere in the chain. Shipping of raw material. Janitors cleaning the factories.Finally I can't imagine how he arrived at his sale price. Even manufactured here the unit production cost can't approach half the asking price. He must be amortizing the entire agonizingly slow 5 year development over the first lot or something like that.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 08:35:39 pm
content: Focus on self-reliance for essentials. Let the Chinese keep making the trinkets and gadgets.If Trump really cares, he should be addressing the initial cause of concern in that video, namely IP theft and copyright infringement. That should be the Administration's job. Instead, each IP owner is expected to wage private battles against the world.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 08:40:18 pm
content: Quote from: fzabkar on June 10, 2025, 08:35:39 pmNo; if he really cared, he'd be doing everything in his power to actually reconstitute the U.S.'s decimated industrial base, in which case IP theft wouldn't even be that much a concern: as the guy in the video points out, if you're doing the tooling as well as the manufacturing here, then those overseas have less opportunity to steal your designs. Instead he seems to be doing everything to further erode it.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:09:32 pm
content: Quote from: Smokey on June 10, 2025, 03:01:24 amYou watched it but hard to tell if you were actually paying attention:He bought the knobs with the understanding that they were made in USA and when they arrived they were not (Costa Rica). Should he just throw them all out, and get new knobs from where? Going forward he's already working on getting knobs made in US.The chain mail was a backup in case the USA made chain mail sold out, its not clear if he is going to use it or not.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:26:41 pm
content: I that video, in first few minutes, he already shows that such kind of product cannot be made in USA and be competitive.There is no supply chain.It is a scrubber for barbecue. 75 USD is insane. 10-15 USD is what I would give, and it has to be good.Also, those things get grimy and dirty and you need to replace them eventually.And that brings us to something we in the West are thinking is alright. If someone makes a something with signature or some completely unnecessary characteristics that is irrelevant to it's function they ask for insane money and somehow it is "worth it".It is not.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:48:28 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 10, 2025, 09:26:41 pmI don't disagree but $10 gets you a shitty bristle unit, which is the whole point of the video to improve on that. Safer non-bristle brushes are already $25-50 for a decent one that is made in China.QuoteWhich is why he says its dishwasher safe.QuoteFor premium branded products whether its worth some amount you think it should be is often not relevant. That only applies to generic or low tier branded products.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:48:39 pm
content: By the statistics of average salary, $75 in USA might mean cheaper than $10 in EU.75USD reported to the average USA salary is the paycheck for 2 or 3 hours of work.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on June 10, 2025, 09:48:39 pmStill pretty steep for a friggin' grill brush, no matter how good.But then there those who spend $thousands on high-end grills like the Big Green Egg. (The hardware store I worked in sold these, and they are good, but expen$ive. Good thing we were in a somewhat high-income town.)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 09:57:29 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 10, 2025, 06:08:08 pmI think that is part of the problem. It seems as if people are no longer willing to work and do a good job. I wrote this before: I bought several pairs of pants from a US based brand. The ones made in the US have uneven leg lenghts (several centimeters) while the ones made in China are perfectly even. I mean, if they can't find people to cut a piece of fabric to size and/or have people oversee & correct the process, how can you manufacture anything complex propely?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 10:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2025, 09:57:29 pmWhy would they if the reward for doing a good job is another yacht for a CEO and a pizza to share for everyone else?There is only so much you can ask from people before they just give up and see no point in working hard. So, you just have to relocate to parts of the world where either wealth is more evenly distributed, or people still have not figured out they are being taken advantage of.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 10:16:26 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 10, 2025, 10:01:31 pmThat is another problem: entitlement. Nowadays people just want more and more and expect to be paid like a lawyer for flipping burgers. Most people don't understand the huge effort (working 24/7) it takes to built a business from the ground and keeping it running.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 10:18:13 pm
content: People used to be paid a living wage for flipping burgers, yes. Now they can only expect that.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 10:47:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2025, 10:16:26 pmWhen rent in some areas is $2,000 a month then someone needs to earn at least $12.50 an hour (if they work 40 hours a week average) to pay that rent with no margin for anything else. So $15-20 an hour wages are going to be normal in those areas for flipping burgers. And I firmly believe no one should be forced to work more than 40 hours/week because that very quickly leads to burnout.The cost of rent needs to fall, which typically means building more homes and more densely. Something that has traditionally been very resisted in the US and indeed most of the West. There are lots of reasons but I think fundamentally it boils down to "I got mine, I don't care".

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:24:06 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 10, 2025, 10:47:46 pmIn the US you are not going to be scheduled for 40 hours in fast food places. They intentionally keep you "part-time" to skimp on benefits (how else a CEO will get a yacht?). So, you need to have two places of employment, which I'm sure does not contribute to the desire to do a good job.Quote from: tom66 on June 10, 2025, 10:47:46 pmMost of the housing is built by private companies, they are not going to build cheap housing. They can sit on a land longer than people can live without houses.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:26:15 pm
content: Was slightly off, here is a US made brush for $15-20:https://brushtechbrushes.com/products/16-quad-spring-safety-double-helix-bristle-free-bbq-brushBut its not quite on the same level of quality. I'm not really convinced either this or the chain mail will work that well?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 10, 2025, 10:01:31 pmOr where people have living memory of what it is like to live with no job and no social network and no government support. Watch one of the videos of Indian "factories" where they recycle oil drums into metal products, or rebuild lead acid batteries.Part of the problem is that everyone in the western world is on the second or third of Maslows tiers. While many in China, India, Africa and other parts of the world are in the lower half of tier one.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:43:49 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 10, 2025, 11:24:06 pmIncome inequality is part of the problem. But it isn't really dominant. Do the math. Take the McDonald's CEO and entire executive office and cut their salarys to the median wage. Distribute the remainder to the tens of thousands of employees and see how much of an income bump results.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:52:44 pm
content: If a politician attempts to discuss income inequality, he’ll be named a communist, a libtard or worse.It ain’t happening.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:53:24 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 10, 2025, 09:09:32 pmHa. Yes, I did pay attention (and I've done product manufacturing using both Chinese and USA suppliers, including USA made injection molding, so I'm not totally ignorant here). I thought I was pretty clear, but I'll restate.If you have a strongly stated goal to make a fully USA made product, then having parts that are not made in the USA is failing to meet your goal. Full stop. His goal was not to make a cheap sorta made in the USA product "using some foreign components". His goal was to make a public youtube video point (2.1M views as of now) of only using USA manufacturing, and he failed to do what he said he was going to do. He made a point of the bolts being USA made and making sure he verified that even at increased cost, but as he stated he gave up on the chain mail and knobs.Lets break those down (with some assumptions and analysis):Chain mail: As he stated, his USA supplier could not make the quantity he needed. That sucks but punting to India (which ended up being China anyway) is not an option if your goal is USA Made. India != USA. China !=USA. You can either take the quantity your supplier can deliver and have that be a bottleneck, or invest in them to increase capacity, or find some other supplier that can tool up. Will that increase your cost? Of course. But the goal was not to minimize cost. It was to make in USA. Not USA = Fail.Knobs: There is no excuse for this, and the video devolves into youtube video stupidity here.His story is "... this is an off the shelf item that we ordered, and when we ordered it, we were told they were made in America.." ... "When they got here, they're not. They're made in Costa Rica".Knobs Part 1: What to do with all the Costa Rican Knobs?If you had a USA based distributor and they confirmed the parts were USA made (Considering his mission He DID get confirmation in writing that all the parts are USA manufactured right???) then they defrauded you. Return the parts. If they won't take them back, then sue them. This is so straightforward it's not funny.Knobs Part 2: Where to get alternate USA made knobs?Find another supplier. Cool. There you go. Problem solved. No wait, you're making an youtube video so things need to be unnecessarily complex and "innovative" to get more clicks. Ok, lets make our own knobs but with "disruptive technology!!!!!!"The whole metal 3D printed + cnc machined injection mold making process sounds interesting and all but we are talking about a fucking hand knob here, not aerospace parts or something with crazy aspect ratios. That knob is about the most straightforward injection molding job possible. If your goal is to make the best product at the best price while keeping manufacturing in the USA then shut the fuck up and make the boring standard mold and make the parts. This section pissed me off to no end. This is NOT how you do manufacturing incase anyone is listening. You do NOT just go straight to the most expensive new "disruptive" processes unless that is absolutely necessarily, and in this case it's absolutely not necessary. This is stupid youtube bullshit. It would take an afternoon to design that knob part and mold which could be made on just about any CNC.Then there is the whole "watch me make mistakes and crash my CNC" montage.... Who'd have guessed hard things are hard?So there you go. Please don't learn manufacturing from SmarterEveryday guy. And if you set out with an ideological goal like made in the USA then having parts that are not made in the USA is failing to meet your goal.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 11:58:20 pm
content: ^ Those are my thoughts exactly while watching the video. And I skipped over the parts where they overengeneer the molds, since I knew perfectly well what was going to be in that section.It is fine to geek out over the technology, but sometimes you just need to get stuff done. And China just knows how to get the stuff done.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 12:30:13 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 10, 2025, 11:43:49 pmMcdonalds is probably one of the worst examples to use for this, due to the structure of the company. Do the same with a company like Tesla and the effect on the average employee would be staggering.Quote from: Smokey on June 10, 2025, 11:53:24 pmReturning the knobs is a poor choice because now you are sitting on a half finished product for a year that can't be sold (no ones going to buy a grill brush in September once summer is over). Most likely the video could not be released as well.QuoteThe guy is probably willing to do a free mold for him to get exposure, not a big deal. 3D printed mold means a faster turnaround, and more chances to tweak the design.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 01:01:45 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 11, 2025, 12:30:13 amHe said in the video that he's been working on this for 4 years. It took this dude 4 years to put this grill scrubber together. If the absolute last thing he did before packing and shipping was source an off the shelf knob then he's even worse at this whole manufacturing thing than I guessed.And the only reason he sold out of the first batch is because he has a popular youtube channel. If these were at home depot and no one knew who made them, then they would probably sell like 7 units total. It's great to have 11.7Million followers, many of which would be willing to give you money whether they get a thing in return or not. So ya, it could be the middle of winter in a blizzard in Alaska and he would have sold about the same number of units as he sold since he's youtube famous. Plus "Made in America!"**(not really made in America).There is no faster turn for an injection mold than to make a knob model, add some draft angles, and cut the mold on the cnc machine that's sitting behind you. Like I said there is zero chance that knob will benefit from 3D printed injection molds over normal processes. When your mold wears out, how many "free" replacements will that guy be willing to give you, vs just making another basic one yourself? Even if the guy gives him a "free" mold the point remains that it's entirely unnecessary and only there to add youtube bullshit. No one in the real world that needs a knob like that would go that route.If your goal is to make a good product at a low price then do that. If your goal is to make a youtube video then do stupid shit like video yourself crashing your cnc and talking to "disruptive technologists". If your goal is to make an only made in the USA product, then for god sakes don't use shit that isn't made in the USA!

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 06:43:20 am
content: I did not watch the video to the end, but did he also traced where the steel, plastic and silicon are mined, refined and produced?Because if any of these are from an import source, it still ain't a fully USA made product, is it.And how about all the machines used to make the parts, where did they come from. Less of an issue, but still.To become fully self reliant as a nation, everything needed has to be sourced and manufactured locally, and the question is if this is possible. My guess is that it is not, and that working towards a better global society, with equal living standards should be the goal. With human ego this will most likely never happen though.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 08:00:56 am
content: The whole "Made in <wherever>" is a marketing gimmick anyway, and often a successful one at that. We have the case of a company who boasts being the UK's only TV manufacturer making budget brand models. Some years ago they even got a slot on either the news or one of those post-news magazine programs we have here; it was plain to see they were taking 2 or 3 sub assemblies (TFT PSU Main board) and putting them into branded enclosures/packaging.Not "Made in UK" just "Assembled in UK".

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 08:21:57 am
content: He made it clear in the video that it would be easy to buy all the parts from elsewhere in the world and put them together in the USA, but he didn't consider that good enough. He wanted to source all the component parts from the USA. I don't think he cared about going to the point where commodities like steel were sourced from because that doesn't really matter. The point was about how the USA had become deindustrialised and no longer had the skills in many areas for tool and die, wire bending, and CNC. The price though... they claim it should last a lot longer than the competition, but how about backing that up with a warranty, like 5 years? And spare parts sold for a reasonable price?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 09:14:37 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 11, 2025, 08:21:57 amBut this is a current issue in many countries, because of the dependencies it creates. For a lot of countries, and maybe every country, it is not possible to become fully independent for sure. For this to become clear, one has to do research into every raw material needed to produce what is absolutely needed to be self sufficient as a nation. Even with food this is an issue. How much can be locally grown to sustainably feed a nations own population at a similar standard that we have now.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 09:21:31 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 10, 2025, 09:48:28 pmThis is my point.What does that overhyped phrase "premium branded products" even means?Is Mitsubishi Colt suddenly better somehow if you stick Mercedes logo and call it A type? In a way that justifies twice the price for same car with same equipment?In the west, repackaging decent mainstream product under some "Brand" and jacking up price makes it exclusive product.It is basically same crap and works the same but now proud owner can brag they have more money then other "plebs" that cannot afford it...A 75 USD grill scrubber is fools toy. It is audiofool equivalent of grill equipment.I just checked. In local Bauhaus they have chainmail brush and it is 8.5 USD.It is dishwasher safe.When it gets damaged just buy new one. You will have lifetime budget for it.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 10:12:21 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on June 11, 2025, 09:14:37 amArguably though that isn't as big of a problem.Steelmaking and aluminium smelting is something nearly every country and trading bloc (like EU) will continue to have simply due to its significance to national security (military primarily). The UK government recently intervened in the attempt by Jingye Steel to shut down the Scunthorpe plant because they had deemed it non-viable.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 06:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 11, 2025, 10:12:21 amIt is not just about steel and aluminium. Yes there are local plants to produce both, but they do need chemicals during the process. How many of these chemicals are locally produced or mined?The thing is that there will always be dependencies on other nations, and it is best to stay friends with them, or make sure that you can source materials from multiple nations to reduce the dependency.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 03:36:53 am
content: For those of you in smaller countries there are real limitations on which resources are "locally" available. But for larger entities like the US, the EU, China and Russia there are very few that aren't possible to mine or make locally. But in the west at least there are artificial shortages. Take chrome plating, and chromate coatings. Yes chromium is somewhat rare, but the real restrictions are the environmental regulations around it's use. While these regulations are aimed at real abuse they add real costs and drive the operation to places less restrictive. A great side argument can be had about the morality of poisoning others while protecting yourself. The limitations are often beyond what seems reasonable. It is interesting watching doctors who will swear that homeopathy is quackery because there is no measure able effect from the extremely diluted substances used in the practice go on to proclaim that there is no safe level for lead or other materials even though current practice requires levels from 10 to 50 times lower than have produced any observable effects.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 06:27:20 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 12, 2025, 03:36:53 amAnd the bold bit only goes so far. Air based pollution does not stay at it's location of origin. Shit blown into the atmosphere in the less regulated parts of the world effect us all. Just look back at the Chernobyl disaster.Same goes for shit dumped in the oceans. Currents can spread it all around poisoning what we pull from the sea to eat.As a species we are almost the worst thing to have ever happened to the planet.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 09:45:02 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 12, 2025, 03:36:53 amI think this is very true. If the US government, for example, wants to ban a certain chemical from being used in the production of electronics, then that ban should apply to any production process performed anywhere if the product is imported. I am not talking about something that for instance contains lead, but more like, this board is cleaned with a nasty chemical and that chemical contaminates groundwater, it should be just as illegal to import something that was produced with that chemical anywhere in the world as to use that chemical in the USA.Unfortunately, enforcing something like that is very difficult, requiring auditors and governments that are trustworthy. But it would certainly level the playing field, and perhaps put some regulations into perspective (perhaps some of them are too much of a burden for anyone to really work under.)

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 10:51:51 am
content: In keeping this electronic...A US company bought the rights to Western Electric 300B vacuum tube. They are now selling these for $3K a pair with serial numbers for like a 15W amplifier. There are now cheaper lower grade versions of the tube with the serial number scratched off. Even cheaper ones with also the WE logo scratched off. I think I would buy the Chinese knockoffs. Not only is the US company flooding the market with under speced tubes but is clearly demonstrating they have quality problems and haven't figured out what they are doing. Even low tech manufacturing creates a knowledge in the workforce and the US essentially eliminated that by going overseas. I remember back when you could call up a company like RCA and get someone who knew something. It takes decades to build up knowledge in a workforce.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 02:36:34 pm
content: In the late 1970s I worked for Sylvania, in their color CRT manufacturing plant.By then, all of the original design engineers were retiring or very near to.The Japanese were slaughtering us with far superior CRT designs, including the amazing Sony Trinitron.Keep in mind that CRT designs required heavy knowledge on electron physics, combining both electrostatic and magnetic fields that would accurately steer the electron beams. That knowledge was being eroded with every gray beard who retired.Thus, to counter the Japanese onslaught, it was decided by the division head that intensive training of young engineers was required, to maintain the knowledge for the future evolution of CRTs. Keep in mind that back then the demand for CRTs was still very strong, and the burgeoning personal computing business, which the US completely dominated, promised solid growth in the years to come.Six months into the program, with our team having successfully developed our first CRT model, a 13 inch high bipotential one, when word came from corporate that the division would be fully shut down, even though we were still manufacturing over 1500 CRTs a day with good profit margins.The reason for the shutdown? The profit margins, although solid, weren’t as good as what the CEO had promised to Wall Street.Which brings my point:America’s de-industrialization has been a fucking SELF INFLICTED WOUND. The responsibility fully rests on corporate America and its Wall Street pimps. The US simply surrendered to the Japanese, long before being actually defeated.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 05:35:57 pm
content: So he makes the argument that it's not possible to make something in america, then at 7:11 he explains that "by luck" he found a local guy who could make an injection mould and make the part.Then talked to a guy that has a business, operated locally. And another 3 people, all businesses, local.So which one is it?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 06:00:35 pm
content: It's BS.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 12:51:06 am
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on June 12, 2025, 02:36:34 pmI would only correct the last sentence. We were ALL complicit. The corporate guys did what the shareholders wanted. Which wasn't just the fat cats. It included the pension funds and mutual funds. And we raced to buy the cheapest thing on the market. I vividly remember a TV interview with an engineer who lost his job when his company shut down. That made hose bibs and other irrigation equipment. He was quite bitter about the movement of his industry overseas. The interview was done in the living room of his house, and it was chock full of imported products.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 01:22:36 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on June 12, 2025, 05:35:57 pmThe question is more about being able to do it at a realistic price.You can always do something locally if you have enough money to burn.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 06:11:14 am
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on June 12, 2025, 02:36:34 pmthe grass is always greener with another investment until it culminates into some fintech cthulu that falls apartphysical goods don't have enough margins. Financial stuff no one understands has the best margin, always. Until a bubble, scam, or more advanced business term happenssubprime something crisisI am sad that CRT died off, because I suspect in a slightly alternate future we would have some kind of bench top cheap manufacturing involving particle beams lol, like 3d printers. Or at least electron beam welder and cutter. Imagine actually they made some white good that can do semi conductor manufacturing for cheap? With electron beam implantationThe TV that is on hinges so you can open up the front and make stuff in there, with a solid state vacuum pumphttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0042207X75907320

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 09:45:41 am
content: Quote from: Psi on June 13, 2025, 01:22:36 amIn my experience, design decisions have more to do with the cost price.Material selection, process selection, tolerances is more important.For a part like this, it matters if you select stainless steel and machining, instead of casting it from zinc.Sometimes its a scaling issue, you cannot afford the upfront costs of the tooling, but that doesn't matter where you build it, upfront costs are what they are. Though here I see a difference for something like injection moulding, making it overseas is cheaper. I've imported moulds, and produced here, and the per part price was lower in the end.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 09:11:24 pm
content: and speaking of virtual goods being a hotter investment then physical goods, you also have virtual encrypted goods.Let's see how game stop will further fall on its ass nowhttps://games.slashdot.org/story/25/06/13/1940258/gamestop-ceo-says-the-companys-future-isnt-in-gamesMy understanding so far is that you need to find absolutely the most confusing hard to understand thing so you can tell creative lies to your investors. If they have no idea what it is, then the sky is the limit. (it sounds like bitcoin with some NFT mixed in)The idea is pick a subject that can't be calculated or even estimated by techniques like fermi estimation (how many pianos are in the united states?) that can put a upper limit on the horse shit you tell your investors. It's the key to a good fairy tale. This is how you make everyone that put a few grand into something feel like they will be the next top 100 richest people in the world.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 05:22:45 am
content: There is an item on this on the PBS Newshour today.https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/alabama-business-faces-hurdles-creating-american-made-productI thought it would make an interesting story for mainstream news. It is about 9 minutes but there is a transcript if you prefer.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2025, 05:49:30 am
content: Bonjour, just see this now....(with the exception of ElCons and ferrite cores, from Japan).We use Americans for design, assembly, testing and shipping.HAVE AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC DAY!Jon