First Oscilloscope Q&A - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: PeteJM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 02:52:46 pm
content: I have been watching the EEV Blog Youtube now for a bit, and have always been a "Dont turn it on, take it apart" user of most electronics and machines. Thus, searching on Craigslist and eBay I might have found a nice find and was wondering if anyone has experience with these old CSOs.Tecktronic 465B OscilloscopeDual-Trace 100 MHz OscilloscopeImproved Version of the 465 (Same physical characteristics)A/B Trace Separation Control with Separate B Intensity ControlLED's Replaced with all LampsImproved Electronics100 MHz BandwidthDual ChannelFull-Range Calibrated Delayed Time Base with Precision Delay Time ControlVertical Sensitivity: 5 mV/div. to 5 V/div.Vertical Modes: Ch. 1, Ch. 2, Add, Alt., Chop, Ch. 2 Invert, A Trig ViewHorizontal Sweep Speeds: 0.5 s/div. - 0.02 Âµs/div. (With x10 Mag. - 2 ns/div.)Horizontal Modes: A, A INTEN, ALT, B DLY'DAt $299 is this a good buy? Considering I will not be purchasing a DSO anytime soon, this will be my main use learning Oscilloscope.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 02:55:09 pm
content: I wouldn't pay $299 for one. But it might depend on where you are.

author: PeteJM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 02:58:58 pm
content: I do agree as I can find them on eBay for less untested, or more depending on if they have been calibrated (unknown to standards or certifications and experience of the tech performing calibration though). Considering I can get a new Rigol 1000 for about $399, the price I was thinking for this would be around $150 or such.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 03:10:46 pm
content: Your best guide to value is to look at the recently sold listings on ebay, and do your best to assess condition. Most people find that they can get a satisfactory deal if they are patient. Since your country is not shown in your profile and you didn't say where you are from I can't point you at the right place to look.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 03:50:35 pm
content: If you are willing to spend around $300 then I'd recommend to buy a Siglent (low end Lecroy) or Rigol instead of an old piece of junk which was great 30 years ago. I wouldn't pay more than $50 to $75 for an old analog scope.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 04:19:33 pm
content: i disagree on the choise, i prefere the 465 above a chinese cheapy but that depends on your needs. For RF or audio an analog scope is still great and better as the budget scopes. For repairwork in powersupplys etc also. Use a 1x probe and make a mistake by measuring a higher voltage and you kill a Siglent or Rigol in a Flash. (some can handle less as 50V and at high frequencys even less)Buit if arduinos or other digital stuff are your thing a Rigol or so will be a better choise.But I agree with Nico about the price. I would never pay over 100 Dollar for a 465 (I had one, got it for free because it did not work, only needed a new psu cap. Played a while with it, really nice scopes, and gave it to a friend. (to much scopes, to little place)

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 04:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: PeteJM on August 07, 2013, 02:58:58 pmWhat I would like to pay, and what something is worth, are two completely different things, rarely coinciding! $150 is what I would consider to be afairprice also, but as high as $200 with a decent hobby calibration should most likely be expected. What I would like to pay, well that's a different story altogether...$10 dollars has a nice ring to it, right?

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 04:36:08 pm
content: $300 seems a bit high.If all the filter caps had been replaced and it went through a cal, I'd still want to see it under $200, preferably around $150. I have a pile of 465s to refurbish and that's what I expect them to go for when I'm done.The B is a bit nicer than a straight 465, which is still a useful scope although it's 30 years old.465's are pretty straightforward, relatively easy to repair, service manuals and schematics are easily available and I fully expect to see them last another 20 years. As long as you don't need the features of a modern DSO, they are perfectly fine scopes.I see all kind of wild prices for scopes on Craigslist ($300 for a 20MHz B&K scope?). You might want to offer him $100 (or less) contingent on the scope being operational.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 05:55:51 pm
content: No. $300 is a terrible price for it. If it was a 400MHz 2465, however, that would be a different story. A newer digital scope would be better for digital circuit debugging, but for education, a simpler analog scope would be better. There are some cheap HP digitals for less than 300.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 08:32:37 pm
content: Analog scopes are easier to use because they have little functionality. I used to think analog scopes are better at some stuff than digital ones so my previous two scopes where analog/digital. In the end I used both in digital mode exclusively because with the proper settings (acquisition mode and triggering) I got a clearer picture of the signal in digital mode than in analog mode. And those scopes where basically analog scopes with a digitizer bolted on. Nowadays I use digital scopes exclusively. Saying that a digital scope is only useful for digital circuits is total nonsense ofcourse. A scope is for looking at signals no matter what their origin.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 09:02:16 pm
content: That is so not what i intended. An analog scope is not the best choise for digital stuff but that not mean a DSO only suited for digital. You digital guy think so black and white

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 09:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on August 07, 2013, 09:02:16 pmWhy wouldn't an analog scope be useful for digital? I've used analog scopes to debug serial audio streams. The delayed B sweep feature is handy to look at a certain time slot (channel). When (used) digital scopes suitable for several hundreds of MHz where still very expensive I used an analog scope to look at fast clocks and other digital stuff.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 10:13:16 pm
content: And again you are being very B&W. "Not the best choise" is not the same as "not usefull". I had a problem with a digital signal in a CW decoder I build and in a repair from a sat tuner and the Rigol 1102 I had back then did not show problems, it drove me nuts, Then I took my 7704 and that showed the runts in the decoder and glitsches in the tuner. I was allready at war with that Rigol and so DSO's but a friend with many DSO's and CRT scopes told me it was just the Rigol that was not suited for my use and not dso's in general. We then did serveral compatres and tests between his 200 MHz Agilent and the 100 MHz Rigol and that made me change my mind. And then I bought my Hameg 350 MHz DSO and now I use that most of the time. The analoge scopes I use for special things like TDR, 5GHz sampling, differential plugins, and all sorts off special plugins like a transistor switchtime plugin, opampplugin, uV plugins etc.I'm now repairing a very sick Tek 2710 SA and this is the first time I used the LA function of the scope combined with probing. Very cool but I must better learn to use it. The mixed use is nice. According the LA function a 74LS27 was bad. Both inputs worked but the output not. But when I hooked up my probe instead off a pod on the inputs and it turned out the pulse only was 1,75V and the trigger of my LA was set at 1,5V (I know my fault but I'm new at LA stuff, I most do analog)

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 10:36:34 pm
content: 465 is my standard on my bench. Good analog scope and one of my favorites. Here in the northeast US $150 is a pretty standard price for a good working one. Freshly calibrated I would say $175-$225. $300 I'd pass on here.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 10:51:28 pm
content: I'm also currently scouting ebay, craigslist, kijiji and people I know for hints on finding a good first oscilloscope for a scope "virgin". Based on my findings, I've noticed several Tektronix 475 (which I think is 200 Mhz) selling for $60-100. So the 465 shouldn't be much more.If it is calibrated from a shop and in amazing condition, maybe it would be marked up higher. But based on what I have seen going through countless listings, these older analog scopes appear to be priced from $50-100 if they power on but no other testing done.There are several surplus/electronic/antique shops in town that are selling scopes for $100 and you can walk out of the store with them, right off the shelf.So I would consider being patient and seeing what is available in your area locally through online classifieds, and through ebay. If you are not terribly picky on the brand or Mhz, bid on the scopes online and eventually you will win an auction. If you don't, just move on.... there are tons of oscilloscopes. If you find yourself losing the bids all the time, try increasing your maximum bid range ($50-75, then $75-100, then $100-125). Eventually you will get a scope.Again, it depends on where you are. If you have a friend in the USA that might be a good place to ship to.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2013, 11:52:25 pm
content: I've seen lower end TDS and TAS units closing for under $200.I just checked some closed auctions on my watch list.TAS475 100MHZ Scope: This one closed for $78. It was sold as-is because channel 4 was showing a messed up square wave when on the calibration source. Instead of a normal square wave, channel 4 looked likeThe other channels looked fine.TDS320 100MHZ Scope: Sold for $91. Horizontal knob broken off, can still be adjusted with a screwdriver. Otherwise works fine.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2013, 12:02:06 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 07, 2013, 09:31:25 pmIf you needed to decode a fast a proprietary serial protocol, such as the 1 wire DHT11 temperature sensor, you would need storage functionality to be able to go over the waveform bit by bit.