Suggestions for a "kitchen computer" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 03:56:34 am
content: I'm looking at replacing my current set up of a Dell touchscreen monitor, USB soundbar and Raspberry Pi with something a little more compact. This machine is used in the kitchen only to watch media via Plex or Youtube.Ideally, I'd like to to be an "all-in-one" type machine with built-in speakers, either capable of running Android or some flavour of Linux without too much stuffing around. I also want it to either have a built-in stand or similar, unlike just a flat tablet. It doesn't necessarily need to be battery powered either, a mains powered unit is fine.I like the form factor of the Google Nest Hub Max (https://store.google.com/au/product/google_nest_hub_max?hl=en-GB) however I won't use it as part of the Nest ecosystem so it seems wasted.Any suggestions?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 05:11:08 am
content: Not exactly a kitchen computer, but my wife and I have a Lenovo Smart Display 8 in the kitchen.All in one wedge shaped thing that sits on the kitchen bench, running Google Assistant.They come in a 7 and 10 inch version also.You can listen to music and watch youtube, etc.It has the added benefit of “Hey Google, Find me a recipe for hollandaise sauce.”Or “Hey Google, add to shopping list Barkers brand mint sauce.”Of course, to get these features, you have to sell your soul to Google…

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 12:41:39 pm
content: What about a thin client? You could find a very nice HP one with a respectable amount of expand-ability that ran X86_64 software for around $35. Then put your system/ecosystem together yourself. Maybe there is already one out there.Unless you are already wedded to one, I would stay away from the (aforementioned) kind of devices. I wouldn't pay for one, thats for sure. Since they mine peoples information, IMHO, they should pay you.As far as free standing, you can find an HP t620 quad core thin client for atound $25-30 and if you are smart, even find one with the stand and specially built power supply. They use an internal SSD. I dont know if you can install a standard SATA SSD in them, hey have internal space for a very small SSD. But they have gigabit Ethernet, can be expanded up to at least 8 gigs, quite possibly 32 gigs, and the t620 plus or t730 both can hold an internal PCIe NIC or I think internal HD. (they have space for a very small PCIe card) But those two models are significantly more expensive on the resale market. They have some very small thin clients that sell for very cheap, possibly $20 that might suit you particularly well, but there are lots of variables involved. These tiny machines were meant as desktop substitutes for businesses whose employees spent most of their time interacting with a single web application and on the telephone. They have the capability to do most basic things and they are cheap. They would be good for carputers too.Used they cost less than a new Raspberry Pi and have more power. But they take more power too. Typically 19v at 3 amps.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 12:50:02 pm
content: I have 2 x "kitchen computers" for the wifey.They use Hanspree 23" touchscreens (w. built in speakers).But since she wanted a "Big Tablet" i decided to use an android TV-Box as the CPU part.That way the "Touch interface" and APP's are like an Android tablet, including the TV-App's etc.Warning:Make sure the Hanspree (or whatever) USB Touch IF (vid:pid) is supported in the android running on the TV-Box.Else you have "nothing" as input device.That mistake costed me a set of TV-Boxes./Bingo

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 01:10:28 pm
content: How big do you need the screen to be? There are add ons to Raspberry Pi that incorporate cases and touch screen monitors. Ive wondered about that use case too, for the exact same reason, kitchen table breakfast viewing for my wife and myself.Space is really at a premium in many kitchens. Also the wall to the side of the breakfast table already has a convection oven mounted on it any monitor that's stuck there is going to need to be able to handle a heat source right next to or beneath it and also some occasional splatter from our heavy duty Oster blender. (smoothies, etc.) .Many thin clients are built to work well in POS applications. I bet you could find something perfect in that area that would also be built to take the typical kitchen environment. (Stores, like grocery stores have spill concerns too.)Thin clients often are available used for very low prices, considering that they are often "real computers" that run x86-64 and i386 applications and OSs. Most can and many do run with Linux well.This web site has a lot of info on thin clients. But you still need to do your research well on compatibility. Or you will find yourself making costly mistakes.https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/I have used HP thin clients in the past for several dedicated applications. (VOIP, firewall, application/web servers) They use very little power and can be run fanless, a big plus.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 04:11:02 pm
content: If you can get your hands on a second hand Surface Pro machine for cheap, you could adapt it to run Linux on it.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 06:39:27 am
content: I remember almost fifty years ago, the kitchen was where the first home computers were going to ‘shine'Storing recipes, ingredient lists and methods to relieve the downtrodden housewives of the world from opening a cookbook ever again.Then - they invented MasterChef and My Kitchen Sucks.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 08:07:41 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on November 12, 2021, 06:39:27 amI remember that too.And "biorythms" - ugh, I don't know why decided to push that woo. Whoever decided to add trig functions to BASIC has a lot to answer for. For that matter, the emphasis on using slow software floating point for everything is quite weird -- the vast majority of programs I've written or worked on in the last 30 years don't have any floating point operations in them at all!Recipes *is* a common use of computers now. I quite often google for recipes on my pocket supercomputer if it's not something I cook often. But I use it more often to store my shopping list.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 08:18:38 am
content: I got me a second hand Apple Mac with 24" display, but you can get smaller ones.They are available very cheap and good enough for YouTube, VLC, browser. They look nice, too, and you can get a remote.I bought it as a TV. My E2 satellite receiver is somewhere else and I stream whatever channel using VLC as a client. This way I avoided having to lay out a new coaxial cable.Regards,Vitor

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 09:13:07 am
content: Honeywell invented a computer forprecisely this purpose.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 09:40:49 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on November 12, 2021, 08:07:41 amSharp, in Japan, wrote this kind of application for Qtopia.Linux 2.4.*, on XScale-PXA270@400Mhz

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 10:27:32 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on November 12, 2021, 08:07:41 amWhat I'd like to find, is a display with projected capacitive touch through a glass pane extending over the entire surface, with a silicone-gasketed edges, so you could use it even with greasy, floury fingers, and just wipe off with ordinary damp towel and detergent. Make the entire backside ridged aluminium, and the entire unit IP44 (splash proof) or better, and I'd be happy.If it had a built-in Amlogic S905X3 processor (similar toOdroid C4) and connectors inset with silicone covers, it'd be darn near perfect "wired thick tablet" (for kitchen/shop/etc. display appliance use). And already supported by vanilla Linux kernels, thanks toLinux-Meson devs, including accelerated 3D (OpenGL ES) and video playback (see herefor details).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 04:47:20 pm
content: For the 'Living Room' computer, I use an HP Envy All-In-One Touch 27" system. Sure, it still needs a keyboard and mouse but it works out well.Something like:https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-pavilion-27-touch-screen-all-in-one-intel-core-i7-16gb-memory-1tb-ssd-sparkling-black/6477678.p?As to floating point: AFAICT, Machine Learning is ALL floating point and these are some massive problems.Engineering is all trig and high end math.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 10:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on November 12, 2021, 04:47:20 pmMachine Learning didn't exist in 1977, and those 1 MHz machines with 4 or 16 or 64 KB of RAM didn't have the capacity for it.Apple's first BASIC used integer variables, it was when they switched to Microsoft that they got floating point -- with a format not seen these days with a 32 bit significand (compared to 23 bits in IEEE single precision). Probably most of the people buying PCs in those days *were* engineers or in the sciences. Also, the overheae of interpreting BASIC was so high that there was little speed difference between using integer variables (especially 32 bit) and floating point. And once everything was using software floating point there was very little incentive to try to make the interpreter faster ...USCD Pascal ran several times faster with its relatively low-level bytecode (pretty similar to modern JVM and Gosling has credited it as a strong influence on him) though it wasn't designed for fast interpretation on any particular CPU. I believe it was first implemented on the PDP-11, then version II supported z80 and 6502, and then later 8086 and 68000 were added.Re a kitchen computer -- the new 24" Apple Silicon iMacs look really great for this use, if you don't mind a keyboard and mouse and paying $1300. Or obviously you can get a used Intel one for less. But that tablet with a speaker stand (Google Next Hub Max) is a lot cheaper and does look good if you don't mind (or prefer) a small screen.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 12:45:26 am
content: I actually swore off Apple several years ago and have not looked back. Their opposition on right to repair turned me off of them.II got sort of side tracked by your mentioning of AI. If indeed you want a machine youcan use forthat, do some research. The differnce between beg able to do different kinds of math is a hard finite limit you'll run into with differnt budget HW, Keep inmind that GPU requirements for AI are very different than for graphics. Youll also find that Nvidia is way more useful if you are learning and the compute capabilities of different GPUS vary a lot.This explains itmuch better than I can.https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/11/15/whats-the-difference-between-single-double-multi-and-mixed-precision-computing/Other things being equal, I would try to get GPUS with as much memory as you can, and as recent a chipset or compute capability, as you can. Otherwise you cant fit your problem in your available memory.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 08:47:28 am
content: In my post I meant a second hand Mac which cost me 150 Euro in eBay.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2021, 07:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 11, 2021, 03:56:34 amIt pretty much looks like a tablet with a stand. If you like that, why not use a tablet, with a stand?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 01:12:01 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 12, 2021, 10:27:32 amWhat I see showing up used on eBay with some regularity are touch screens intended for use in medical settings.Justscreens with VGA/HDMI/USB interfaces, not touch screen computers, so you're going to have to add your own choice of computer power. These are intended to be sterilised with potentially nasty liquids, resist blood and gore, and are probably designed to operate with latex gloved hands. Worth a look...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 03:22:39 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on November 14, 2021, 01:28:16 amYup. It just needs to be thin enough, and I would avoid materials that don't feel "smooth" while brushing them - could be very annoying for touchscreens. So I'm not too sure about anything silicone-based?

author: AnalogueLove1867
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 05:39:23 am
content: Android is barely 50% linux. So I never even consider it linux. Might as well argue that Windows is Dos or Apple OS X is Unix.

author: AnalogueLove1867
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 05:43:49 am
content: That early computer advertisement image is golden lol.A tempered glass chopping board that is also flat tv would be nice. Could just upload a pic of the local much hated politician.What? is someone sayin' machine learning didn't exist in 1977? Mate, machine learning isn't some amazing new incomprehensible difficult to implement thing lol.You can do it all in analogue with low power microchips lol. Self-modifying code is old as dirt too.I have a book published in 1981 that talks about decades of robotic automotive manufacturing.In the mid 1970's they already had robotic welding arms that could be "trained" into a welding routine.True 3d printing has been around since the 1990's.If anything 2010 to 2020 has been the decade of clueless hipsters rediscovering old tech and thinking that makes them genius visionaries.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2021, 08:23:08 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on November 14, 2021, 01:12:01 amHey, thanks! I already decided to buy a H96 Max X3 (S905X3) media player, which has pretty good Linux vanilla kernel support (Armbian, LibreELEC, OpenWRT) – I intend to see how easily one could make a customized player/browser for elderly family members. Something like a rugged display would be exactly what I want with that.And if I cannot find one, there's always the LG LP097QX1 (iPad 3/4 Retina display module) Adafruit and others sell, that one can put in a customized chassis behind tempered glass. Not cheap, butglorious. Or, you know, take an existing cheap HDMI IPS display (say with a good panel but surface/button damage) and re-chassis it.