Iron for "industrial use"  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ryanmills
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 12:10:59 am
content: I know this has been asked 100 times, I was poking thru old posts but a lot suggest what I have been using that's not lasting. Currently I'm on my second Hakko 888d and they have been fantastic for quick stuff but now I'm doing long 6+ hour sessions and slowly I end up having to increase the heat each month till the iron itself just sort of fails. I'm getting about 6 months out of an iron and I'm on my second base, maybe that's normal, I'm not just cranking it to max but I have notice since I'm running it longer its burning out faster, I'm current using it at 750 degrees and its sticking to the legs of terminal blocks or anything with enough metal to sink heat on a brand new tip and im fighting cold joints. I'm still tempted to just replace the iron again but wondering if there is something better suited to long sessions? Or is the life span just typical?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 03:40:25 am
content: Metcal stuff. Pretty much any of them.The JBCthat also use RF sourcesare great too.::EDIT:: I was mistaken about source for the JBC, like CD series that use the T245 handles. They are not RF, but are still really good stations. Arguably better general purpose stations than the Metcal stuff (but I'm still a Metcal guy).

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2025, 09:52:08 pm
content: For heavy use metcal is definitely up there. MX-H1-AV is a metal handle which doesn't get hot, tips seem to have thick plating, etc. The major issue is new price is not cheap, so you'd be looking at used equipment. And sleep is not adjustable, if its in the stand it goes to sleep.I would like to recommend ADS200 newer version but it has yet to be proven, no thorough reviews.Make sure you get a power style tip with a short length to it for maximum heat flow.Quote from: Smokey on February 05, 2025, 03:40:25 amHakko and Thermaltronics are the only other major RF players afaik.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 12:39:46 pm
content: Metcal mx500. You'll need to replace the station about every 100-200 years i think... you can buy second hand units that have worked shifts in a factory for decades and they are fine. I'd never buy a station with a temperature control knob. Curie or nothing.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 02:44:41 pm
content: I've been using ADS200 since shortly after it was released, and I'm still super-happy with it! I especially like cheap tips (I think these are the cheapest direct-heat tips around), so that it's not a big financial commitment to stock a few extra tips just in case.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 09:15:55 pm
content: I recently upgraded to Pace ADS200. Seems great so far. I don't have much to compare it to aside from my almost 20 year old Pace HW100 and cheap irons my clients use.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:06:16 pm
content: If you are generally like the Hakko but are doing larger stuff, look at the new FX888DX station and optional FX8806 95W iron. Or, if you are doing stuff that is just too large for a typical soldering station, then have a look at American Beauty or large Hakko irons.https://www.zoro.com/american-beauty-tools-soldering-iron-300w-78-in-1000-f-3178-300/i/G0841924/https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/557/Soldering-Irons/Or if those are too brutal for you, the new Hakko FX-972 station has an optional 200W iron, but that whole setup will set you back $600-800.At some point even the best 1/2-ton pickup just won't do the job.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:39:35 pm
content: Its not about high power, its about heavy use. Which is where reliability, build quality, and ergonomics are the key factors.I would not want to use that american beauty iron for more than about 5mins.Hakko stuff is almost all plastic, though it does seem to hold up OK. Reliability of the new Hakko stations should be ok, but we have no serious reviews yet.Handpiece temperature is part of ergonomics that annoys some, see my measurements here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1645-$80-quick-ts11-soldering-station-review/msg5689825/#msg5689825

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:44:48 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 06, 2025, 10:39:35 pmBut he is complaining of having to run high temperatures and getting cold joints on large things. For that you simply need more heat. You wouldn't have to use that American Beauty for 5 minutes, it will do the job in 2 seconds. IDK if it is appropriate for his uses or not, it is a bit extreme. But if you want a lighter and easier but even more extreme solution, have some 1100W tweezers:https://americanbeautytools.com/resistance-tweezer-systems/102

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:51:30 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 06, 2025, 10:44:48 pmPlease read again, they are having to increase the temperature over time. Presumably something in the heater in the tip, or in the driving circuit in the iron itself is wearing out?Wild tweezers, never seen something like that before.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:53:04 pm
content: What on Earth is he doing to these poor Hakkos? People abuse them for years, and they usually just keep going on and on, consistently giving a well regulated temperature. Needing to grdually turn up the temperature is strange, unless he is steadily working on chunkier and chunkier power stuff, where the iron's wattage is just not enough to achieve a reasonable quick recovery. If he is working consistently with things that have a modest thermal capacity it makes no sense.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2025, 10:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on February 06, 2025, 10:51:30 pmI suspect he just needs more power, but I guess we don't know. The FX888 is not known for issues like that AFAIK and he mentioned running it at 750 degrees (400C) so I guess we'd need him to clarify or else test his irons with a thermocouple.If the American Beauty is too awkward I just found these:https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/FX8004-81/Soldering-Irons/?b=y&v=7765Goes with their Ultra-Heavy-Duty station. I'd no idea they had feedback stations with that much power.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 10:04:03 am
content: Quote from: ryanmills on February 05, 2025, 12:10:59 amIt would be instructive to have a soldering expert go and observe your soldering, because that lifespan and that behavior is not normal at all.I agree that in some cases, you may be simply asking more than that iron and tip are capable of. In that case you need more oomph.But the fact that your performance degrades over time is very unusual.What is your tip care? Oxidized tips conduct heat more poorly. Cranking up the temperature then just causes oxidation to occur that much faster. Of course using a new tip “resets” this aspect, so that isn’t the whole explanation.Is there contamination accumulating between the heater and tip?Are you tightening the tip collet correctly? Too little force and you get poor heat transfer, too much and you risk damaging the ceramic heating element. (I haven’t used the FX888 myself, so I don’t know whether its design prevents over-torque damage or not.)Regardless, the FX888D is an entry level station. If you’re doing production volumes, spend the money on something better. Even if it lasted just as long, if you’re using a tool 6h/day, then even small improvements in performance, usability, or even just “niceness” make a big difference in the sum. For example, on an FX888-style iron, swapping tips is a big rigamarole that is difficult to do safely with the iron hot. With a cartridge heater system (or well-designed tips like Ersa I-Con Mk 2) hot-swapping tips takes seconds. This means you can easily switch to the correct tip for the job. (I have two irons on my Ersa station at work, so that for jobs that require constant switching between two tips, I just have each tip on an iron and grab the appropriate handpiece.) This avoids the temptation to use a too-small tip for the joint and just crank up the temperature…Cartridge heater systems are also ideal for production soldering because a burnt-out heater means simply replacing the tip.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 10:08:50 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on February 05, 2025, 03:40:25 amJBC doesn’t use RF. They’re simple resistive cartridges.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 10:46:08 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 06, 2025, 10:44:48 pmYou missed the 1800W version! :phttps://americanbeautytools.com/resistance-tweezer-systems/103(And that’s just for tweezers; their larger “pliers” style go up to 3kW.)The other manufacturer of resistance soldering equipment that I know of is Pace, but theirs is a much more modest 80W:https://paceworldwide.com/smr-multi-function-pulse-heat-rework-stationAmerican Beauty tends to focus on high-power applications, so they’re often wildly overpowered for electronics use. They sell a $1500 timer unit to allow controlled application of heat. (Not a bad markup on a metal box that will contain little more than a $100 off-the-shelf timer module and a solid state relay…)

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 02:21:23 pm
content: The great thing about metcal is that you can't crank up the heat. I would never have a non curie point iron in my factory. More heat is never the right choice. Bigger tip. The big tips on the mx500 you could solder seriously chunky stuff easily. Plus you can swap in seconds even if you've got only one iron connected to the base. They heat up fast too.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 03:05:48 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 07, 2025, 10:04:03 amIf you think the FX888D is entry level you should see what most of the world's electronics is being assembled with.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:27:38 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 07, 2025, 03:05:48 pmMmm… no, I don’tthinkit’s entry-level, itisan entry-level station. Lots of factories out east use what amount to clones of the 888’s predecessors.And of course most electronics are assembled with reflow or wave soldering.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2025, 11:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 07, 2025, 11:27:38 pmHave you been in some factories out east, and seen what they use?Quote from: tooki on February 07, 2025, 11:27:38 pmOf course, I was referring to the hand assembly work, which there is still quite a lot of, soldering leads to boards, building small quantities, and so on.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 12:21:33 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 07, 2025, 11:27:38 pmFX888 is totally pro. This is entry-level.https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/RED-503/Soldering-Irons/?b=y&v=7765

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 01:34:21 am
content: Quote from: ryanmills on February 05, 2025, 12:10:59 amIt's really hard to know what is happening here, but that is totally not normal. The FX888 series is a lower cost station, but it is also a professional item designed to be used on a production/assembly line.Are you using the right tips, and are you replacing if/when they need to be replaced?Also, are you aware that the base station and the soldering handle are separate items? If the soldering handle fails you can replace that without replacing the base station. If the base station itself is failing, it begs the question, how?The danger here is that you could buy a much more expensive station, and then have that fail too, but more expensively. (Although, if you use a solder handle that uses cartridge tips with built-in heaters, then maybe you would be replacing only the tips instead of the whole handle.)Before you buy a different station, you need to figure out why your FX888D stations are failing. It's really not normal or expected.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 12:02:28 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 08, 2025, 12:21:33 amThose irons are used on huge numbers of assembly lines, but even those are not the entry level. The Chinese clones of those Hakkos are the true entry level.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 01:00:04 am
content: I agree with IanB here. Hakko has a quite good reputation and a soldering station from Hakko should last many years, even when used daily. But you have one failed base station now. It may be just bad luck. Temperature regulation getting worse may be a sign of a (partially) worn out tip.I bought a KGSER C245 (JBC clone) myself, and I quite like it, but it''s cheap chinesium and I'm not sure how long it will last. If I was soldering daily, I would either buy a genuine JBC, or I would buy a handful of the KGSER stations, and then make them more robust (Better power supply, short circuit protection and such. Apparently the offical JBC has more overshoot and worse temperature regulation, and I very much like the availability (and simplicity) of the KGSER schematic, and availability of (alternative) firmware from Github.If you're using the iron daily, and 300 (work) days per year, then the cost of the Iron is not very important. In half a year time, the person holding the iron probably costs EUR 15000 in salary, chair, Fab rental, heating, etc. For this sort of reason, JBC (and others) make solder tip cleaners with electric motors. These cost a few hundred EUR, but if it saves the operator 2 seconds each time the tip has to be cleaned, they will pay for themselves over time. There are huge differences between daily professional use, and hobby / repair work, where the iron is used only a small amount of the time.If my daily work depended on it, I would at least have one spare iron, regardless of whether it's an EUR 800 JBC, or a EUR 80 clone, so even if it breaks down unexpected, it's not more then a 5 minute nuisance.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 12:47:20 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 08, 2025, 12:21:33 amMy exact wording was that it is an “entry levelstation”, not an entry level iron.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 02:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 09, 2025, 12:47:20 pmAn iron which requires no base unit IS a station, complete from plug to hot part.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 05:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 09, 2025, 02:21:32 pmCertainly not. In normal terminology, in English, a “soldering station” means a system where the iron is powered from a base unit. We say “soldering station” precisely to contrast with a simple soldering iron. In modern practice, a soldering station is expected to be temperature-regulated (though the absolute worst ones use only simple power control) and nowadays isolated from mains.To claim a simple “fire stick” soldering iron is a soldering station is ridiculous.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 06:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 09, 2025, 05:57:39 pmTo claim that something which does not do the whole job is a station is ridiculous. The FX888D is clearly NOT a soldering station. Where is the stand for the iron? Where is the fume filter? Where is the ESD protection?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 06:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 09, 2025, 02:21:32 pmQuote from: coppice on February 09, 2025, 06:09:21 pmCome on, stop with the silliness. There's no need to derail the thread, even though the OP has disappeared.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 06:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 09, 2025, 06:09:21 pmThe term "soldering station" doesn't mean the workstation (place where a human technician works) for soldering. And you know this, you're just being obtuse for some odd reason.