$1000 pc psu is it worth it - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Willy.nebula
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 09:37:53 am
content: Ok guys just seen a vid on YouTubehttps://youtu.be/aH50aXIz9gMI can't see how this power supply could be worth 1000 bucks that's us$ btwThis has to be a gimmick seems like some audiophile like bs to meThoughts anyone

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 09:52:29 am
content: I don't think it is a gimmick.It is aimed for the top end of the PC market. For people who want a top end power supply, and who are not particularly worried by the price.A vaguely cheap, 1200 Watt power supply, is probably around $400. E.g.https://www.scan.co.uk/products/1200w-corsair-digital-ax1200i-full-modular-80-plus-platinum-1x140mm-atx-psuSo $1,000 at the top end (if it is any good), does not sound so bad.At the really high wattage's, the prices of PSUs, does go up very exponentially. Which makes them look surprisingly over-priced.I would have thought $500 to $600, would be a more sensible price. But more maybe ok.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 10:10:14 am
content: Not sure if it's expensive or not. This might make sense for people running 4x Titan X for computing purposes, then you're looking at roughly $5k for just the graphics cards alone. I don't think price matters that much when you build something like that.For some reason it has bluetooth built inWonder when the first Internet of Shit power supply will arrive.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 02:56:44 pm
content: They're wrong when they say that Murata have not made PC power supplies before. Murata make plenty of power supplies, just not for consumer-level desktop PCs; they make some server PSUs, as can be seenhere.The "transformer technology" that was shown looks almost exactly like that seen in the following YouTube teardown video I saw recently. Stacked PCBs are used to make up the coils in the transformer.I think also mikeselectricstuff did a teardown some time ago of a very small Murata DC-DC converter that used similar technology.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 03:00:46 pm
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on January 09, 2017, 10:10:14 amConsidering people digging bitcoins or doing some other GPU computing stuff usually keep a stack of cheapie spare PSUs as they tend to die rather fast working under full load 24h/day, something that is actually designed with intent of such work (and not even server PSUs have that in mind usually) may be actually cheaper.Mind that I don't have an opinion about snake-oilyness of this particular unit yet:)

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 03:33:07 pm
content: They only give a 7-year warranty with it. 10-year warranties are becoming more common on the premium range.I'm not even sure this supply has sense on the 12V rails either. Or caps at the end of the cableshttp://www.corsair.com/en/blog/2015/july/explanation-of-rmi-new-type-4-cables

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 04:49:36 pm
content: More details and pictures here :https://www.techpowerup.com/229390/cooler-master-unveils-the-masterwatt-maker-mij-1200-w-power-supplyYou don't need capacitors at the end of the cables. For example, Seasonic PRIME power supplies manage to do better than those Corsair power supplies pretty much all in analogue., and without capacitors on the cables.The price is so high because the market for such power supplies is very small, on jonnyguru some psu company rep was saying they sell less than 10k pieces a year from that category of power supplies.I figure Cooler Master and murata want to recover the development costs and don't plan to sell a lot of units.The power supply looks like a 250-300$ power supply, it's not based on a revolutionary topology, just the transformers are differentI personally hate seeing those cables screwed onto the metal plate and then going through the ferrite rings and then to the back PCB with connectors, but I can understand it's required due to how 12v is regulated ... i've seen this technique in server power supplies, like the one in the video above.I like how they glued/taped the X2 (yellow) capacitors under the common mode chokes to save space.Guess we'll see the actual reviews too see if they're worth the money.(but i'm 95% sure they're not worth it)

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 11:11:52 pm
content: I'd have to see a lot better spec sheet before spending that much on a power supply.http://www.coolermaster.com/powersupply/masterwatt-series/masterwatt-maker-1200/No mention about the temperature range it's rated to be used at full load. No spec on ripple except some unitless quantity in the marketing fluff.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:09:24 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 09, 2017, 03:17:50 pmA bit!? It's insanely overpriced. It's the kind of thing an audiophool would be suckered into buying because the marketing tells them to.For most applications, even 24/7 running machines, invest in a good quality power supply for under AUD$200. You might spend a little more if you have high power demands or for very special applications but other than that, I see no reason to spend that sort of money.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:17:01 am
content: I will be looking forward to reading the JG review on a Monday...

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:20:58 am
content: So ....how many engineers does it take to design a power supply?In the meantime, at newegg it's available for $499. But hey, we all took the $1000 bait and clicked on the video.http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=MPZ-C001-AFBAT-US+&N=-1&isNodeId=1

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:58:44 am
content: Nothing in there I've not seen in any decent industrial quality PSU - just wanked up a bit to make the gamer fanboys drool, like cases for cables.PC PSUs are generally a lot cheaper then standard, reasonable quality general-purpose PSUs as the volumes are so big.You can easily pay that sort of money for a good PSU in a plain cardboard box and no wankery e.g.http://uk.farnell.com/xp-power/fxc6c6-06/psu-1000w-24v/dp/1109983

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 01:38:06 am
content: Classic PC-phoolery. Made in Japan, 3 years development, 40 engineers...c'moooon !Besides, around 0:53 you can see his face expression. Even he doesn't believe in that BS !

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 10:57:01 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on January 10, 2017, 12:20:58 amThat's not the same power supply. The $1000 one in question here is the 'MIJ' model suffix. I'm not quite sure why CoolerMaster decided to name it practically the same as one of their existing models.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 12:07:34 pm
content: Quote from: HwAoRrDk on January 10, 2017, 10:57:01 amHere is a very recent article, confirming your post and explaining/confirming the >=$1,000 price tag.https://www.techpowerup.com/229390/cooler-master-unveils-the-masterwatt-maker-mij-1200-w-power-supplyQuoteBut now I'm reading that I'm also wondering if this is another one of those (HDMI leads) $499 solid silver (de-oxygenated) with inbuilt electro-excited-jistication combined with softened positronic active neutronic actions HDMI (all digital) leads, as opposed to just plain $1.99 ones.I.e. Possibly a waste of money.But I guess the jury is out on this one.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 02:40:24 pm
content: Having some kind of storage for any unused cables is not uncommon with modular power supplies. Maybe theirs is ott/excessively wank though. I don't know, I didn't bother to watch the video.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 02:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: Willy.nebula on January 09, 2017, 09:37:53 amIt's worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, and they believe they can find 10,000 people willing to pay for them. Value is more than component and labour costs and is quite often very subjective.It's a boutique item with a boutique price tag.Would I pay $1000 for it? Not really. Doesn't mean 10,000 other people won't though.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 06:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: HwAoRrDk on January 10, 2017, 10:57:01 amThanks for catching that. They appear deceprively similar. In looks and description.So the main features of the new power supply seem to beIt took 40 engineers3 years to design it,it sells for a $1000and it was built in Japan with Murata components.Soounds like a Toyota Corolla a decade or two ago

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 06:48:29 pm
content: FYI,If I were to design, and have manufactured, a power supply of about this size, I wouldn't be able to sell it for less than about $2000, and that only in modest quantity.American designed power equipment easily runs $1/watt, even for large industrial stuff.You get cost reduction from quantity, so high-quantity products, like VFDs and welders, tend to be on the cheaper side (like several HP per $1k), and also tend to be made in China.I can design lab equipment, where the high cost comes with high accuracy and reliability. But I can't even compete with something like that.So remember this perspective when it comes to prices.Tim

author: R_Gtx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 08:16:25 pm
content: And yet, at the upper end of server supplies, the 2000W 80+Ti SupermicroPWS-2K04A-1Ris only $343.48 for a single unit. Those fancy cables must be very expensive to manufacture.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 09:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 10, 2017, 01:56:30 amToo aggressive in what way? Lack of slope compensation? Use of a pulse frequency modulation, constant off-time, or hysteretic design? The later in my experience results in a hiss rather than a whine which is almost as annoying.QuoteI am surprised that better input decoupling would have any effect. If it was insufficient causing control loop instability, then I would expect the board to self destruct and not just make noise.QuoteThis is definitely a problem with DVFS and a dynamic load modulating the output current and voltage which requires a high performance control loop for best results. I believe the only way around this is to relax the control loop performance by using a lot more output capacitance but this also slows down the DVFS, is expensive, and in some cases may not even be practical.I am not sure there is much to be done about it other than using physically better transformers. In older designs, you sometimes find dampening structures built in or added to the transformer core to prevent audible noise.I wonder how the highest power density power supplies (this one is not even close) handle this other than using better transformers.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 09:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on January 10, 2017, 09:00:28 pmSilverstone have an 800W Titanium rated SFX-L PSU coming out (125 mm (W) x 63.5 mm (H) x 130 mm (D)), which should be pretty dense, if the 700W version is anything to go by. Jonny Guru's review:http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=480Not sure if this gives you any insight or not though.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 04:23:36 am
content: Jonnyguru got one for review, its sexy.http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=508

author: Faith
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 10:33:21 am
content: Mmm. Interesting transformer! And everything inside looks really nice.Having said that; as much as I love quality engineering, at what point does it become counterproductive and needlessly excessive?This is bordering on the line of audiophile craziness.I used to work in IT and I can safely say that power supplies are amongst the lowest failing parts on desktops and servers. Since I started working I've seen hundreds of hard drives get exchanged. RAM is next with at least half-dozen to a dozen failures. I've seen at least two RAID controllers fail (but both due to their RAM cache modules, lol). And at least one CPU. Power supplies though? The only time I've had to exchange one was due to a botched firmware upgrade on the power supply itself (yeah, the power supply firmware was reporting load incorrectly).And the company I've worked for the longest was really stingy on IT budgets. They've had servers running 24/7 with date codes going back a decade. And the newest desktops weren't far behind. It's quite amazing actually how reliable the power supplies are even on budget Dell OptiPlex desktops.Notebooks are a separate matter though, I've seen quite a few portable power supplies get sent back.

author: Faith
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 10:37:26 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 09, 2017, 04:42:49 amHahaha. You underestimate what some PC builders do. Many PC cases have windows on them, and I've even seen windowed (and water cooled) power supplies too >,<!~

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 11:59:54 am
content: To repeat what I posted in the video comments... "That thing better generate its own power!"

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2017, 12:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: Faith on March 09, 2017, 10:33:21 amI think the difference here is that there are a lot of marginal consumer grade ATX power supplies and it is difficult to know which brands and models are good and which ones are not. All of my workstations except for 1 going back 10+ years have had at least one power supply replacement.Inspections showed that almost all failures were do to bad output capacitors which visibly leaked or bulged. The two exceptions were Corsair power supplies where one had bad output capacitors without visible signs and another just failed.On the other hand my oldest "server grade" ATX power supply in a dual P3 Xeon works just fine.

author: Faith
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 01:01:42 am
content: Oh I definitely agree. But a US$1000.00 PSU is hardly the solution to the problem. I just bought a US$120.00 600W PSU from Corsair for a new small form factor PC. Granted that's around half the power, but their 1000W models do start at around US$175.00 or thereabouts.I think the biggest issue with the whole DIY PC market is that many people would rather put their money down on a better processor, more storage, and et cetera; than on something which doesn't provide any noticeable benefits at first glance, like a power supply or even motherboard. I'm always reiterating to friends how a PSU is pretty much single-handedly responsible for delivering power to the entire PC; and that if it fails it can be "good luck mate" to every single component connected to it.Mercifully it's actually pretty easy to find a very decent PSU these days for not all that much money.My experience with Corsair is pretty decent. I used to use Antec as well as PCP&C in the past. I've had one Corsair fail, but it failed gracefully (in a sense that it didn't go all Chernobyl in my computer case); though I never got around to figuring out what the problem was since it was still under warranty.I did have one friend though who after spending several grand on his PC decided that the best power supply was the one bundled with his hundred dollar case.That did not end well. It took two weeks before it went into meltdown; taking with it the graphics card, motherboard, and storage.

author: FireFlower
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2017, 01:35:17 am
content: Working at electronics factory myself I can say $1000 is load of marketing BS. That unit cost to manufacture $200 at max + then Murata's % profit. It all comes to down it will consumers buy enough of them to cover 2 years worth of engineering, prototypes, marketing guys Starbucks coffee. Somebody here probably can run the numbers assuming Coolermaster has to pay $300 for one unit.