Agilent DSOX2024 Won't Boot - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 11:30:44 pm
content: I haven't used my DSOX2024 in a few months, and when I went to turn it on today, I got a nasty surprise--it won't boot. The fan runs, and the buttons light up as they usually do on startup. However, the screen remains blank and the Run/Stop and Single button lights never shut off, leaving me to believe that it's hanging up somewhere early on in the boot process. I haven't recently changed the firmware or anything that would lead to obvious problems.It should still be covered under warranty, but I wanted to first check to see if anyone here has encountered this problem before dealing with Keysight support. Any ideas?

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 11:58:18 pm
content: Right after posting this, I noticed another thread at the bottom of page regarding the same issue. Looks like it's off to Keysight...For those wanting to follow the other author's experience:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oh-no!-i'm-never-buying-any-agilent-keysight-equiment-ever-again!/25/

author: georgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 05:49:39 am
content: I'm a DSOX3032A user, the gear still under warranty and boots regularry but thinking how much will cost me if after warranty expiration period would not boot up my scope?Well, after registering and entering serial number of my scope on Keyisght site then queried for repair costs and system said:Repair Per Incident US$ 2572.00In last two years the couple of tens users reported boot problem on this and also on Keysight users forum.How many DSOX2000/3000 are there?Maybe worth to think about some form of self helping community in case of boot failure.Repairing the flash corruption is easy to do if its contents has known so reading it out with JTAG adapter and save it to case of failure.I'm willing to contribute in self helping project or pay to some crow founded project.Georg

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 08:48:34 am
content: I don't know how many DSOX2024 are there in this forum, but definitely it sounds like some design flaw.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 09:30:07 am
content: Quote from: georgd on May 22, 2016, 05:49:39 amThat's normal, pretty much all big brands use standard repair fees outside the warranty period.However, Keysight also offers 'Repair Agreements' which essentially are warranty extensions which can even be bought after the original warranty has expired, and which cover the instrument for any defect that might occur during the coverage period. Repair Agreements are generally a lot less expensive than a single Repair Incident, in fact, you might be surprised how cheap they can be.I bought pretty much all my Agilent/Keysight gear on the 2nd hand market, and aside from my DSO8k scope (which will be out of support in less than a year) everything is covered by a repair agreement for peace of mind.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 01:32:50 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on May 21, 2016, 11:58:18 pmI am the poster on that thread and can confirm we're going through basically the VERY same problem. First my DSOX2024 wouldnt boot. Keysight said it was impossible to repair and sent me a brand new replacement unit. The replacement unit was also defective and showed a PLL error on screen. But the warranty had just expired and now Keysight is charging me a little more than U$ 2.000,00 to repair the brand new defective unit they sent me.This is definitely not good company practice!!!!

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 01:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on May 22, 2016, 08:48:34 amI will have to agree!

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 04:18:24 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on May 21, 2016, 11:30:44 pmHow old is it?

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 04:23:20 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on May 21, 2016, 11:30:44 pmBTW, this is exactly what I experienced. This was a backup unit that sat in storage for a few months. When they needed it and turned it on, it didn't boot.I wonder what could cause such behavior. At least with my unit, once it refused to turn on, it was dead. I could leave it plugged in for hours and try to restart it as many times as I could without any success.

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 04:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 22, 2016, 04:23:20 pmFor what it's worth, my unit was plugged in the whole time, so it's not like it was the lack of power that caused the failure (not that that should be an issue on modern equipment anyway.). I'm hoping that it is a software problem and not a hardware failure, but since Keysight sai that your unit was unrepairable, I'm not too hopeful about that.Oh, and my scope is about 2.5 years old. Much younger than my 30 year old HP network analyzer that still works perfectly...

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 05:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: georgd on May 22, 2016, 05:49:39 amAgreed. I'd be willing to assist as well. There are many of these scopes out there (because they're nice pieces of equipment), and if this is really a design flaw, there's going to be a big need in the next few years.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 06:31:05 pm
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on May 22, 2016, 04:30:50 pmYes, I know lack of power *shouldn't* be a problem with modern equiment, but why sitting unused is? Makes no sense why it would fail for that reason...All I know is that it was working just fine when put in storage. Upon first power on after a few months, it wouldn't boot.

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 06:33:12 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 22, 2016, 06:31:05 pmI'm wondering if sitting for several months is actually the cause, or if it's just a coincidence that we both had the failure after it had been sitting. With a sample size of two, it's difficult to know. Have you found any other threads on this forum or elsewhere about people having the same problem? I've only found the Keysight forum that I linked.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:06:30 pm
content: My DSOX2002A was manufactured in 2012 and purchased in 2013. Now in 2016 the scope seems to be OK.The burn-in time successfully expired.My 5-year warranty ends in 2018.https://service.keysight.com/infoline/public/details.aspx?i=COVBuy you know, oscilloscope is like a girlfriend. It can die overnight, but it is not very likely.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 02:43:27 am
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on May 22, 2016, 06:33:12 pmNo I did not find anyone else complaining about this, which leads me to believe it could be related to sitting for a long time unused, since most people use their scopes every week or so at least.Or maybe like you said it really has nothing to do with sitting on a shelf at all... but it's certainly a coincidence.

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 06:40:51 am
content: I found thishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/agilentkeysight-dsox2022a-won't-boot!/msg756627/#msg756627, and I remember at least two other treads. This is one of them:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-mso-x-2014a-continuously-restarts-(/msg636249/#msg636249.Johan-Fredrik

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 04:33:58 pm
content: Hi,Contact the local support center! A no-boot scope should qualify you for a free repair regardless of warranty status!It sitting for a long time shouldn't have any impact on why it failed. We've implemented some recent stability improvements that should help recover and reduce this type of issue. The sitting for a while doesn't cause the issue.

author: georgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 04:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 04:33:58 pmThese words should be engraved in stone!Georg(DSOX3032A owner with 1 yr warranty remain)

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 04:56:45 pm
content: I should say (before it's engraved in stone somewhere) that this no-boot free repair isn't necessarily going to be around forever and ever (we have no plans to remove it) and IT DOESN'T APPLY TO EVERY SCOPE MODEL! Right now, it's just for the 2k, 3k, and 4k scopes that were shipped prior to 2016.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 05:31:27 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 04:33:58 pmThis is the kind of support I would expect from Keysight. Great Daniel!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 06:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 23, 2016, 05:31:27 pmYes, but let's not forget that Keysight Brazil didn't support him at all.If he hadn't got lucky on this forum he'd probably be stuck with that repair bill.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 06:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 04:56:45 pmIn other words, it's offered due to a known problem which can cause these models to brick themselves?

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 06:53:10 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 04:56:45 pmDoes this mean that you have found the error and eliminated it in the 2K, 3K and 4K scopes produced after 2015? And if so, can you tell us what caused this and tell us how to make sure it does not happen again?Johan-Fredrik

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:08:27 pm
content: Maybe a bad Flash memory? I hope this happens to 1% of the scopes or so.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:14:04 pm
content: We've done a couple things to improve stability over the last year-ish. First, we put in a recovery partition so if the scope doesn't boot, it should at least be recoverable. Second, we increased the robustness of the NAND ECC to help limit errors caused by NAND failure or corruption in the boot block.So, there's not really a bug that we fixed. Instead, it's improvements to help mitigate future potential issues.

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on May 23, 2016, 07:08:27 pmI for one hope that this don't happens to anyHP AgilentKeysight scope, but that is just meJohan-Fredrik

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: LA7SJA on May 23, 2016, 07:18:21 pmI agree! It's the nature of the beast that this type of failure will happen with this technology and volumes this size. We're working hard to minimize it and make fixing it as small of a pain as possible for the unlucky few that have to deal with it.

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 07:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 07:14:04 pmThis new recovery partition, is it part of any of the new firmware? And how does it work?Quote from the 70s "It's not a bug, it's a feature"

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 08:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 07:21:26 pmThen, even though I am not a Keysight customer, and despite that I think that being present in a forum like this is great, I am going to make a brutally honest but constructive criticism: that naivety by your designers is simply unacceptable.If the flash is so error prone it wouldn't harm anyone to make it easily replaceable. And, for situations such as this, it's mandatory to have a bare minimum boot environment in ROM so that at least you can replace a broken firmware. Accidents happen. A power outage can bite you during an update. Firmware can be corrupted for whatever reason, even "Alpha particle impact", as Cisco uses to call it. There are countless ways in which it can go wrong. With an adequate recovery mechanism, the customer will at most call technical support or even look up a support web page. What happens when that option is not available? Headaches, lost time and even money (seems, even though this seems to be a misunderstanding).Last year I suffered one of those episodes with an expensive Firewire audio interface (Metric Halo). Suddenly something was badly corrupted and it refused to boot. After an email to the technical support they gave me a procedure that worked without faults. It booted into an old version of the firmwarein ROM, and I could install the latest version without problems.I know that many of the customers of high end equipment are used to support contracts but a refusal to boot without a proper recovery mechanism is plain simply bad design. Not intending to be nasty, but I didn't expect that from a high end manufacturer. And I'm sure that if I tell this story to a friend who worked in Santa Rosa several years ago he won't believe it.Anyway, take it as a constructive criticism. Never underestimate the value of a boot loader in ROM including a firmware update mechanism, together with some firmware image validation. And, plese, for God's sake, do not take the awful PC firmware as an example. It's hard to do worse!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 08:47:36 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on May 23, 2016, 08:23:03 pmWell at every R&D department a fresh batch of engineers enters the arena at some point and all the stupid mistakes are made again.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 10:06:19 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 07:21:26 pmHow many years the device in question is distributed?

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 10:13:54 pm
content: I believe the 2000 X-Series scopes were released in 2011.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 01:27:07 am
content: Yes.Quote

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 11:18:01 am
content: Some input about issues with NAND flash and solutions:https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~omutlu/pub/flash-error-analysis-and-management_itj13.pdfHaven't seen any manual yet, stating that the device has to be powered every month for an hour or so at least

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 12:43:55 pm
content: Quote from: madires on May 24, 2016, 11:18:01 amGreat read. Daniel, does Keysight implement any of this techniques?

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 03:54:38 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 23, 2016, 07:21:26 pmDaniel - is there a way a fix could be performed as a "bundle" if you for example sent scope for calibration? As I own one of the absolute first MSOX's ever I'm kind of worried.... Maybe that was something worth looking into.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 04:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 23, 2016, 06:37:43 pmBecause it wasn'tno boot issueat all.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:13:58 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on May 24, 2016, 03:54:38 pmYou don't have anything to worry about, the hardware hasn't changed (except for maybe that noise inductor a while back). I've seen the numbers and breakdowns for scope failures, and we're in line with or better than what we've seen historically. Ultimately, all electronics have a risk of breaking. Computers, phones, stereos, and scopes. I wasn't trying to get people panicking (not that you are), it just seemed like a opportune time to bring up firmware updates.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 24, 2016, 04:59:46 pmYes it was!All this nightmare started when my scope decided not to boot, and then I got a defective replacement with a PLL error.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 23, 2016, 08:47:36 pmIt would be more accurate to say that we've improved the recovery mechanism. There were error checking and recovery techniques used in earlier firmware, but we improved them to the point that now you'd actually see it happening as the user instead of having an unusually long boot time.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 23, 2016, 06:37:43 pmI'm still stuck with that repair bill!!But Daniel is looking into this, but havent got any confirmation yet that they will actually DO something to remedy my situation.And I DID NOT forget how bad Keysight Brazil technical support is. I even called them yesterday and the local manager said 'sorry, there's nothing we can do to help. You either pay or you will get the defective unit back'.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 24, 2016, 04:59:46 pmHuh? I didn't even mention booting.His 'issue' is that his 'scope refuses to work (read the thread!)His 'luck' (maybe) is that there's somebody on here who works at Keysight and cares about their public image. There's a lot of people watching this and judging Keysight's response.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:37:37 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2016, 05:32:33 pmEven though you didn't mention booting, I just wanna say that yes, my problem was boot related.I had a perfect working unit that all of sudden did not boot. I sent it under warranty and got a replacement right before the warranty expired, with a PLL error.IF the first unit booted normally, I would probably still have the original scope I bought working here.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:39:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2016, 05:32:33 pmSo you insist thateveryoneshould be given free repair outside of the warranty? Free repair for no boot issue outside the warranty is offered because it is aknown issueof the model.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 05:55:06 pm
content: Also frankly, there is not much of the fault on Keysight side. Yes,bsgdhad bad luck with replacement scope. But it is not unreasonable to expect that the user within half a year had a time to check if the replacement unit is not DOA either. So probably is lying (I don't say this is the case) about unit being DOA.From my experience working in warranty repair in the past, people who request warranty service often are BIG liers. They will lie through the teeth, insult the receptionist and so on when the warranty isrightfullyrefused. Like if the device is completely corroded and green inside, but they'll swear the service was at fault for this, implying he brought completely immaculate device.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:06:14 pm
content: bgsd isn't entitled to anything. Keysight is living up to the terms of his warranty. For a little extra he could have gotten the insurance that would have covered him outside of the warranty but didn't.That's not Keysight's fault. They owe him nothing.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:14:39 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on May 24, 2016, 06:06:14 pm+1If he gets this sorted for him for free it is just out of good will on Keysights side. And yet he keeps bashing them in every single post

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: continuo on May 24, 2016, 06:14:39 pmActually folks, I went to the Comsumer Court in my city yesterday, as I said I would. I talked to the lawyer and this is considered, in our law, a 'Hidden Manufacturer Defect' and its a quite common complaint here. They asked for the paperwork, checked everything to see if I was entitled for the repair and yes, according to our law Keysight in this case should be held responsible. But I AM NOT filing a suit. Daniel has been VERY KIND and VERY helpful and I do believe what Im experiencing here is limited to the office in Brazil.But folks please understand one thing and try to stop trying to put words in someone elses mouth: I haver NEVER bashed Keysight US (quite the contrary, please read my posts) or said I should get a free warranty or a free repair, or a free anything. I'm just telling my story so folks are aware of what might happen to them, bacuse it DID happen to me.Imagine you just got a new replacement car under warranty, and it fails with less than 10 hours of use. Then you get back to the dealer and they give you a repair price higher than that of a brand new car. Would you be happy? Would you fix your car? - Please put yourself in my situation and decide if you would be happy or not. Maybe this kind of situation would make you happy, and that's fine, but it doesn't work for me.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:38:51 pm
content: Folks, if there was an unpowered scope failure phenomenon, it would be well known by now. There would be ton of infant mortality problems with scopes being sold through distribution.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on May 24, 2016, 06:38:51 pmI agree and I beieve this is limited to a few units.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 07:53:53 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 24, 2016, 06:23:40 pmImagine you just got a replacement TV under warranty. You let it sit for half a year beyond it's warranty expiration date and you really, honestly turn it on for the first time and it doesn't work. You think you're entitled to a free repair or replacement.Imagine you just got a replacement TV under warranty. You use it every day until it's months passed the warranty expiration. Then it fails, and you didn't buy the extended warranty. You want a free repair so you tell the the story above.The only reasonable thing a company can do is honor their warranty commitment, otherwise every expired warranty will be a "special case".He's hired a lawyer now, Keysight would be wise to back off now as I have no doubt any assistance given by them will be used to bash them over the head as an "admission of guilt".

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 09:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on May 24, 2016, 07:53:53 pmHaha, I'm not too worried. The error he's seeing is definitely a special case. If it hadn't had been in for service recently and was the as-shipped unit it would potentially be a different story.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 09:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on May 24, 2016, 07:53:53 pmHaha, that's funny! I believe you are kidding right?If it aint a joke, Im sure this is just another fake profile trying to throw some gasoline on the fire, which is also great for our discussion and to bring some more attention and different perspectivesThis is an open forum and I completely respect your perspective, even though it is not the reality of what I have done.Someone in this thread recommended me to go to Procon and I told I would go, just to know if a repair in my country in this case is legal or not. Turns out according to our laws, it is legal. I have not hired a lawyer because I dont need to, this is a free public service offered by our government to protect consumers. And do you really think I could hire a lawyer for 2.000 dollars? Thats quite naive or lawyers in yoyr country earn too little haha...it would be much cheaper to just throw away the scope and get a new one! Keysight has been very helfpul, I can only thank Daniel for being so kind and understanding. I truly believe Keysight US is doing a good job dealing with this situation. I have said this here and at another thread quite a few times since Daniel joined the discussion.Regarding the TV example, Im sorry to know your country does not have this kind of consumer protection, but I also didnt know that until someone joined in the discussion a few pages ago and directed me to the specific law (in portuguese) we have here that guarantees a 90 days warranty after the defect is found, not matter how much time passed since the original warranty expired, as long as the defect is not obvious and takes some time to show up or a specific condition to appear. They call this 'Hidden Manufacturing Defect'.Thank you for bringing your perspective to my thread and sharing with usBTW, where do you live? I'd really like to know, since I know it's not in the US or EU, whcih carry a similar but much better consumer protection laws. Please share!

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 09:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 24, 2016, 09:22:21 pmDaniel, could you please lend me some money? I believe 10.000 USD will suffice. I need to hire a lawyer to take care of some situation I'm having and since we have been 'friends' for a few days I tought maybe you could help me?Sorry, I just couldnt resist. People here are definitely funny.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 10:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 24, 2016, 09:42:17 pmI've got $10

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 10:37:09 pm
content: Quote from: bsgd on May 24, 2016, 09:39:28 pmDoes that mean you can ask for free repair after say 20 years? BTW, the defect your scope has is quiet obvious I may say and is no way hidden.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 11:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 24, 2016, 10:37:09 pmNo, the law does not specify, as the product must go thought a specific condition to exhibit the problem. They told they have seen cases with 2+ years, and even some safety problems involving cars (which were worse). Of course they would never accept a case where something went wrong after 20+ years, Im sure they are smart enough to analyze the situation and only take what is considered good faith or everyone would complain about everything.Yes, they did consider it hidden because I had to leave the equipment on for hours before the problem appeared. And since this a backup unit its rarely used for hours without being turned off (its raely used at all actually). The first time the problem showed up the equipmentwas on for 2+ hours, but the problem got worse for some reason and last time I checked it only had to be left on for 40 minutes before something went wrong. Before that period the oscilloscope worked perfectly fine and I really expect the problem to just go away but it didnt.Someone mentioned this could be a NAND problem too, but I dont think so because of this: the problem gets worse the more the equipment is used.

author: bsgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 11:18:15 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 24, 2016, 10:22:26 pmGreat, only 9.990 to go!

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2016, 11:50:37 pm
content: I shipped the scope to California about two weeks, and it (or a replacement, I'm honestly not sure) came back today fully working. The whole process was quite painless.

author: j bob
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2016, 10:36:46 pm
content: I have an answer to how often this happens. I have a dozen of these scopes that I got in mid 2012 (Junish) and put into service in January 2013. One had a boot failure in May of 2014. Another one had a boot failure in November of 2016.

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 12:50:25 pm
content: Firmware version on the failed units? Have they been updated?Johan-Fredrik

author: alanambrose
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 01:59:15 pm
content: Hi Daniel,I suspect I have another example of this problem - it is an MSO-X-3024A. It was working fine, but I have not used it for a month as I've been coding firmware. It now doesn't boot - the panel LEDs flash a couple of times on power up with the Math and Ref LEDs staying on and that's it.I'm based in UK. Does the UK contact centre have any knowledge of this problem do you think?Regards,Alan Ambrose

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 04:03:06 pm
content: Hi Alan,Definitely give the contact center a call! It's pretty painless and quick.-Daniel

author: dav
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 11:55:25 am
content: It would be interesting to know if this problem can be fixed via the UART and/or LAN.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2017, 05:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: dav on January 10, 2017, 11:55:25 amDepending on the issue it's technically possible, but there's a lot of hacking to be done to get there. Which, of course, I don't recommend.

author: GoneOutAgain
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 02:54:52 am
content: I recently ran into the boot issue myself back in May. I had used the scope fairly often (many times in a month) since purchasing a couple years ago, but it had sat on the shelf for a few months when my tasking shifted. I figured I'd post to reinforce the prevalence of the issue. No screen output and the start/stop and single button lights stay on. I haven't found any button it responds to except the power button.

author: K1JOS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 04:55:01 am
content: What firmware version did you have?Jerry

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 08:17:07 pm
content: I'll reiterate that the new firmware releases have much better protection in place to help prevent this type of issue. There are also tens of thousands of these scopes "in the wild" so, like any electronic device, some will unfortunately have issues. However, the odds that you are the one that has an issue is very, very small.Thanks for reaching out, let me know if you have any other questions!Thanks,Daniel

author: dav
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 02:44:53 pm
content: The firmware I can see on Keysight website is 2.41 and is 2 years old (2015-11-02).Is this the latest one (with protection from NAND issues) or I'm missing something?Thanks

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 06:41:38 pm
content: 2.41 is the latest release.

author: dav
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 08:18:09 pm
content: Hello Daniel, I have an Agilent 3014A.I'm curious to know if when updating the firmware my unit will became a "Keysight" or it rests an "Agilent" (Agilent boot screen, Agilent logo on the top-right of information-area screen...). Thanks

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 08:46:03 pm
content: Quote from: dav on February 14, 2017, 08:18:09 pmIt will display a Keysight boot screen and show "Keysight" on the LCD.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2017, 09:27:02 pm
content: Yes, the screen changes after updating. You can also upload a custom boot screen of your choosing.

author: alanambrose
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 05:03:04 pm
content: >>>Hi Daniel,I suspect I have another example of this problem - it is an MSO-X-3024A. It was working fine, but I have not used it for a month as I've been coding firmware. It now doesn't boot - the panel LEDs flash a couple of times on power up with the Math and Ref LEDs staying on and that's it.I'm based in UK. Does the UK contact centre have any knowledge of this problem do you think?Regards,Alan Ambrose<<<As an update to this, I contacted Keysight and the scope was fixed promptly, free of charge and with little fuss. It also came back with a fresh cal cert. Many thanks to Daniel for keeping us updated on this problem.Alan

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 04:03:55 am
content: Thanks for the edit and I' glad everything's getting taken care of!PSA, if you're having trouble with your Keysight equipment your local contact center is a great place to start. Little to no wait time and you get connected directly to an expert. I've even called them from time to time with questions.

author: afhox
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2017, 03:39:54 pm
content: About 2 weeks ago my DSOX 3034A presented the same boot problem as Alan described.Contacted Keysight local center and sent my unit for repair under warranty. Got it back today with fresh cal and everything looks fine. Good service by Keysight.

author: Lajon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2017, 10:48:39 am
content: afhox, did it have old firmware (<2.41) when it failed?/Lars

author: afhox
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 07, 2017, 12:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: Lajon on April 07, 2017, 10:48:39 amI don't remember exactly the version that was previously installed, but definitely prior to 2.41 since it was still an Agilent firmware. Unit returned with 2.41.

author: funkfool
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 03:22:02 pm
content: Well now, it appears I also have a DSOX3034A that is exhibiting this issue. Powers up, lights up and will not boot. Just cycles through endlessly.I have 5 others that show no symptoms. Has a work around been found for this issue?I would sure be interested in it.Flat rate repair is now $2,720.44. Waiting for a quote on repair agreement.

author: georgd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2017, 05:48:23 pm
content: Keysight will repair your scope regardless of warranty status for this kind of issue.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-dsox2024-won't-boot/msg947259/#msg947259Georg

author: deepankar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 09:18:01 am
content: I have a DSO-X 2022A.I also face the same issue the scope was not in use for long time and today i turned it on and i was taken by surprise. It wont boot. I have recorded a video that shows what happens.

author: willemite
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 07:10:57 pm
content: I hadn't turned on my scope in a few months and now my DSOX2004a is suffering the same no boot issue.I saw above that it might be repaired for free, but Keysight seems to think it will cost ... $1,167.54.Guess I will have to try calling again.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2017, 07:18:51 pm
content: Ask them to check this eevblog thread and they will fix it. I just had my unit fixed and recalibrated for free in the US. This is from the repair report:"Unit failed to boot due to NAND memory corruption. Unit is qualify for the Service Note MSOX3024A-05A"

author: willemite
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2017, 01:35:43 pm
content: Thank you so much, that was exactly what needed to be said (referred them to the Service Note).Thanks

author: LeMaitre
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 02:57:18 am
content: Yesterday I had the exact same problem as alanambrose with my DSOX2002A (firmware v2.35 I think). I had not used it for a while then I went to switch it on and it would not boot. It just flashed a few lights and froze with the Math and Ref LEDs staying on. Even though it is old enough to be out of warranty, I had only used it about a dozen times. It's kinda hobby use but I do appreciate good equipment and I loved it while it worked. So I phoned Keysight UK straight away and got through to a nice chap quite quickly. I described the problem and asked if he'd seen it before and if the 2 lights mean something like an error code. He said it just means it stopped during that part of the boot sequence. What he said next made my heart sink. He said, "Our repair strategy for your scope is replacement! We don't repair those scopes in this country". He said I can send it in and they will quote me for the replacement. What a waste I thought. This fault could be a simple fix.Then out of desperation I started searching the Internet and came across this thread. I have 2 questions:1. To alanambrose: was your scope under warranty when it was fixed free of charge?2. To Keysight DanielBogdanoff: does my scope qualify for a non-booting free repair out of warranty in the UK?Thanks all.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 07:45:14 pm
content: @LeMaitre, it's possible that it qualifies. We don't repair those scopes in-country because it would be really, really expensive. The repair folks also repair things like our high end 60+ GHz scopes, so they're pretty specialized.I would recommend calling back and asking if it "qualifies to be repaired against service note DSOX2002A-06A.” If it qualifies, repair/replacement is free. The NAND thing is for a specific range of serial numbers, but if your scope is showing these symptoms it's probably quite likely it will fall in that serial number range. If that doesn't work, send me a PM and we can discuss further.

author: LeMaitre
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 09:46:18 pm
content: Thanks for that Daniel. I will contact them tomorrow.It is a little strange that they never mentioned any of this to me. It was as if they had never seen this issue before.

author: LeMaitre
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 20, 2018, 11:27:41 am
content: I contacted Keysight UK and asked if my scope qualifies to be repaired against that service note. They would not tell me! They said it has to go for a technical evaluation. They said another department would get in touch to arrange to collect it last week but I still have not heard anything from them.When they said they don't repair these scopes in this country I think they meant the only option for people in the UK is replacement if anything goes wrong.

author: LeMaitre
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 08, 2018, 07:49:35 pm
content: The next week I got an email with a link to a FedEx label. They picked it up a few days later.One week later I received the scope back and it was working!!Looking through the option slot at the back, it seems like they changed the main board.The note with it said "Repaired against service note DSOX2002A-06A". So it was repaired for free and outside of warranty (I received no invoice).Why couldn't tech support have mentioned any of this on the phone? I thought my scope had been written off.Whilst I really appreciate the free repair, I will have to think twice before buying Keysight again. It seems that if it is out of warranty, then it is a write off. I can't afford that.A special thanks has to go to DanielBogdanoff for his assistance as I may have thrown it away if I had not known about that service note.

author: Fgrir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2018, 06:39:34 pm
content: Quote from: LeMaitre on April 08, 2018, 07:49:35 pmI think that Keysight really does consider their lower-end scopes as almost disposable, given that the per-incident repair costs are usually >50% of the original selling price. On the other hand I have found their repair agreements are quite reasonably priced (at least in the US), so if you are worried about keeping your equipment for a long time I think they may still be a better option than many other players. I recently paid $120/yr for a three year repair agreement on my MSOX3024A, and it looks like a similar plan for your DSOX2002A would only be $36/yr.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 09, 2018, 07:35:00 pm
content: I'm so glad we were able to get you taken care of!The challenge we have with repairs is that the same people that would repair a 2000 X-Series repair the super-high-end stuff. And the cost is the same regardless of whether it's a $1,000 or a $100,000 piece of gear. That labor cost is not negligible.We always recommend getting an extended warranty if you're able.Also, my understanding is that manufacturer repairs are sorta expensive no matter what brand, although I imagine we're on the more expensive end of the spectrum.Finally, I did some digging on the phone communication. THE TECHS CANNOT TELL YOU IF THE REPAIR WILL BE COVERED OVER THE PHONE because they need to physically have the unit for eval. But, they won't charge you for repairs that you haven't approved.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2018, 07:57:12 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on April 09, 2018, 07:35:00 pmTo clarify: are you saying examination by Keysight is free?

author: Tomy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 28, 2019, 09:24:16 pm
content: I have MSOX 2012A and it doesn't boot, as shown in video posted by deepankar (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/agilent-dsox2024-won_t-boot/msg1272116/#msg1272116).The device was turned off for 8 to10 months and guarantee has expired :-(I bought the device in Belgium. Now I live in Slovenia and I called local distributor, who said that because the oscilloscope was not bought from them, I have to pay transport costs and they can send device to the repair.We will see, I hope for a free repair

author: rrrrr
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 16, 2021, 07:41:42 am
content: I recently had a similar issue on my DSOX after not using the instrument for a couple of months, it would try and boot and then restart again and the cycle would repeatFortunately after several (20?) power down/up cycles it booted and ran for long enough to allow me to update the firmware. Since then I haven't had any problemsI suspect that maybe the EEPROM was wearing out and the firmware update refreshed its contentsHopefully the update fixes the problem for good, so if any owners haven't updated their firmware in the last couple of years I suggest it be done sooner rather than laterAnother bonus of the firmware update is that the boot time is cut in half!

author: swperk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2022, 02:52:46 am
content: I just brought my Agilent DSOX2024A back to my bench after it sat unused for several months and I have the dreaded "won't boot" issue now, too. What's the consensus about the likelihood of getting Keysight to repair it under some sort of extended warranty?Stan

author: orbital
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2022, 02:43:52 pm
content: I have exactly the same issue with my DSO X 3024A - were those who had them recently fixed, fixed out of warranty? I've contact keysight.

author: 10minusT
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 08:46:14 pm
content: tl;dr: Keysight repaired my MSOX3024A in October 2022 under "Service Note MSOX3024A-05B"I contacted Keysight last Fall and they quoted me $2000+. After a couple calls I mentioned"Service Note MSOX3024A-05A"and got confirmation there would be no charge for the repair.Their Courier Services reached out and scheduled a pickup. A couple weeks later I had a working scope with a fresh calibration certificate.The Customer Service Report references "Service Note MSOX3024A-05B".The no-charge repair under Service Note "MSOX3024A-05A" ended October 2019 so they must have extended the program.

author: 10minusT
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2023, 08:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: orbital on November 16, 2022, 02:43:52 pmMy unit waswellout of warranty.

author: charliex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 11:31:06 pm
content: our agilent dsox-2002a did the same thing where it wouldn't boot, and then some fiddling and it booted after a while. but a week or two later same thing. so this time once it started updated to the keysight re-branding. has booted a few times now, will check back in in a few weeks to see if it still boots.so flashed feb 24th, still boots. 13/4

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2024, 02:45:57 pm
content: I also noticed I have this issue on my DSO-X 2012A.Scope was purchased feb-2014.After being left alone for several months it's refusing to boot.Two quick flashes in all LEDs then REF and MATH lights up in sequence, after that nothing happens.Can someone confirm that retrying several times eventually will get it to boot, and if so, a firmware flash will help?Edit: - - - - - - - - - - - -Seems like the above is confirmed in another thread, but it seems I need to find the motivation to possibly spending hours turning my scope on/off.I made a quick video over whats happening when powered up:Video:https://youtu.be/We1fXkUtue8As shown; two quick flashes in all leds, then REF and MATH lights up and thats where it ends.Question:Does someone know how far in the boot process it came from the lights?I got the sequence from that other thread to:QuoteBut the main question is how far did it get in each of the steps?I also found a way to unbrick the scope posted by titirishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dsox2000-and-3000-series-licence-have-anyone-tried-to-hack-that-scope/msg2136181/#msg2136181, excellent work!But I haven't tried yet due to lack of courage and misplaced serial adapter.I had no intention or desire to hack my scope, I just wanted it to boot again, that's the goal.(For the record, I dont have a lan adapter.)

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2024, 05:26:14 pm
content: To avoid multiple edits on the same post, I'll continue here.I finally got around to hooking up serial coms, below is the output from boot.As suspected there is a CRC-Error early in the boot process, it is theBL_IMAGE_TYPE_BINimage that is corrupt.Time to read more before anything gets more complicated.Code:U-Boot 2010.03 (Oct 18 2011 - 14:28:06)Agilent P500CPU: SPEAr600DRAM: 128 MiBFlash: 512 KiBNAND: fsmc-ecc1 128 MiBIn: serialOut: serialErr: serialSerNum:serial number not programmedChip: BD Board Rev: 4Net: smscPress space to stop autoboot: 0## Booting kernel from Legacy Image at f8050000 ...Image Name: PBOOTCreated: 2011-08-24 22:35:34 UTCImage Type: ARM Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)Data Size: 36045 Bytes = 35.2 KiBLoad Address: 00000000Entry Point: 00000000Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OKStarting kernel ...Debug serial initialized ........OKMicrosoft Windows CE Bootloader Common Library Version 1.4 Built Aug 24 2011 15:15:48Microsoft Windows CE 6.0 Ethernet Bootloader for the Agilent P500 boardAdaptation performed by Agilent Technologies (c) 2008System ready!Preparing for download...Loading image 1 from memory at 0xD0600000OBL_IMAGE_TYPE_BINXXXXXXOOOOXXOOOOOOOOXOXOXOOOOOOOXOOXOOXOOOXXOOOOOOOOOOXOOOXOXXOOXXXOOOXOXXXXXOOXOXXOOOOOXOOXXXXOXXOOOXOOXXOXXOXOOOXOOXOOXXOOOXOOOOXOXOOOOOXOOOXOOXOXXXOXOXOXOXXOXXXXXXXOOOOXOOOXOXOOOOXOOOOXXOXOOOOOOOERROR: Checksum failure (expected=0x270992F computed=0x2705DB2)****** Checksum failure on record 77, ABORT!!! ******Completed file(s):-------------------------------------------------------------------------------: Address=0x80361000 Length=0x130656C Name="" Target=RAMLoading image 1 failed, trying next oneLoading image 2 from memory at 0xD1600000BL_IMAGE_TYPE_UNKNOWNLoading image 2 failed, trying next oneAll images failedPress r to reset