Amber/Raytheon Triple Field of View (TFOV 60/180/500 mm) Lens - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:02:45 pm
content: I recently acquired this extremely rare TFOV Lens. I have only seen it in brochures and I am happy to have it in real life now haha. More info to come.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:03:27 pm
content: Here are some pics of the Internals. A very interesting design. The fixed lenses rotate on the inside and are controlled by a controller, mini stepper motors, hall-effect sensors, and a very unique gearing/clutch system. I put some tape over the coverings while I work to minimize dust getting inside.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:04:02 pm
content: Here are the electronics. There is a DC to DC converter that is 24V to 24V prob just for isolation purposes. I looked up the part (which is obsolete now) and this part alone $300!The lens is controlled by one control board here. I will be analyzing it to see how to control the lens. So far the lens DB9 port only wires to the RS232 MAX chip. And Wires to the 24V DC to DC converter.Has anyone heard of Optimum Optical Systems? Maybe they can chime in on how this lens is controlled.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:08:04 pm
content: Here is an image of the lens from the phoenix brochure I found on the wayback machine on "www.flirthermography.com"https://web.archive.org/web/20060516074340/http://www.flirthermography.com/cameras/all_cameras.aspThis lens was also in the Merlin and Radiance HS brochures:https://web.archive.org/web/19990429060018/http://www.amber-infrared.com/products/radianceHS.htmlThe photo attached with the red chart mentions the DFOV and TFOV lenses under the Radiance HS product description. Cool to see how this lens ended up in the Merlin and Phoenix brochures.Here is also a link to a mention of this lens on the merlin accessories page on indigo-systems old website:https://web.archive.org/web/20040603074145/http://www.indigosystems.com/product/merlin_options.htmlPhoenix Accessories Page:https://web.archive.org/web/20040603025902/http://www.indigosystems.com/product/phoenix_specs.html

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:17:18 pm
content: To get this lens working it looks like I have to reverse engineer the firmware. (Unless someone knows how this lens works)The chips below are of interest to me. Attached is the data-sheet for the MCU and EEPROM (I think?)

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 12:15:10 am
content: Wow that is an excellent find to go with your Amber cameras. Noticed the electronics board had a SN of -001. May not be many of those lenses "in the wild". However the model number on the lens front says Rev C. Very interesting indeed. One of your screen captures from the brochures says it's an F/4 and not an F/2.3 While it will work, you will have to bump your integration time up to overcome the signal loss and build a specific NUC table for each focal length to get best image quality. Easy enough with the cooled Ambers's and RTools.Look forward to seeing some imagery from that monster.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 12:37:03 am
content: Thank you for this. I always wondered what were the negative affects of using mismatched F Numbers. Now I know that you need to increase integration time to account for the loss of "photon energy" due to the higher F number. Now my question is how much do I have to do this. Is there a specific formula I should follow or is it just until you get a good image.And will do! I have to first figure out how to get the lens to respond to commands. I wonder if FLIR has as user manual for it somewhere in their archives as it was once an Indigo product back in 2005. I think from 2005 to 2006 they switched to the SC6000 series cameras and the merlin and phoenix cameras were no longer offered. Check out the two brochures.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 01:20:19 am
content: It really depends on the responsivity of the system, but generally speaking a F/4 captures about 1/2 of the energy as a F/2.8 See diagram.With the Amber have a cold stop of F/2.3 it will be a little less. That of course assumes equal transmission through the lens. Good rule of thumb is look at a scene or blackbody of the temperature you are looking for and watch the digital counts till they are about half way between cold or hot saturation. The Amber's are 12 bit (4095), so about 2048 counts.One of the great things about cooled cameras is the adjustability ... also one of the biggest downsides too! Guess that's why most people prefer the uncooled 'turn key' cameras.If FLIR carried them forward then there is a good chance they had the software. Key would be if it's still around or can be found. I know my organization upgraded cameras - Amber, Indigo, FLIR - and kept lenses. My work still has shelves of older lenses that we utilize with newer cameras. It's amazing to see 30+ year old IR lenses used with state of the art focal planes.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 01:40:04 am
content: Wow this is great information indeed. I am still learning when it comes to this stuff. It wasn't until a few months ago that I finally learned about integration time. I guess since as you stated normal uncooled cameras don't really care about that stuff since it is fixed and can't be changed.One cool thing I figured out is that a Pleora PT1000 LVDS can be used with ResearchIR. Shame you cant do custom cameras on the newer FLIR Research Studio Software. Which is why I have both. Luckily any recordings you do on research ir you can just transfer to research studio most of the time.The cool the about the Pleora module is that you can use convert RS422 signals to LVDS via a bunch of resistors to attenuate the signal to LVDS levels. I already was able to do this with an Indigo Merlin camera which is 12-Bit RS-422. So in theory I can do this with the amber camera as well.(Please excuse the un-NUC'd image was just for testing purposes haha)As for the software I hope they did too. I will ask if they even know about these lenses haha. Might have to send them some brochures to jog their memory. Maybe some engineer still knows about it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 12:44:36 pm
content: Regarding asking FLIR for technical information on obsolete cooled cameras……I have spoken to FLIR USA about cooled cameras, some of which were actual FLIR products rather than Amber or Indigo Systems. I found that the USA support team only knew about very recent FLIR models and they even admitted that none of their team or USA based techs knew anything about the SC4000 and SC6000 ! They had not even seen one ! I suspect staff “churn” may be responsible for this situation and older “sages” have left the company. Fortunately FLIR USA CS forwarded my enquiry to FLIR, PARIS (France) where the scientific thermal camera division is now located. I spoke with an amazing chap who was clearly an expert on cooled science cameras of all ages. It turned out that he was the Chief of that divisions technical team ! He loved to discuss all things scientific thermal camera related and was very helpful. He sought out the information and obsolete software that I needed amongst his team and could not have been more helpful. It was a classic direct Technical Officer to Technical Officer interaction rather than via a customer services representative. This is what you need with these cooled cameras as, even within FLIR, they are a specialist product with only limited knowledge within the USA based customer support team. There may be older technical officers within FLIR USA who would have information or knowledge, but they can be hard to track down via FLIR CS.In my personal experience it has been apparent that if the legacy information you seek is not within the excellent on-line FLIR archives, it is unlikely that FLIR USA customer support will be able to help. It appears that they do not have “off-line” archives that may be searched for obsolete equipment data and software. In the past I have been put in touch with members of FLIR USA management (a CEO no less) who tasked their subordinate teams with searching old PC’s for copies of obsolete software to send to me ! That may all have changed with the move to Teledyne as such is going beyond normal customer support limits.I suggest that a call for support be raised with FLIR USA requesting information on the TFOV lens and suggesting forwarding the request to the FLIR PARIS scientific camera team. That way you may avoid the classic “sorry that is obsolete and we no longer hold data on it” response.Fraser

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 01:53:00 pm
content: Ditto on what Fraser said. FLIR can be complicated to find the correct person. They have absorbed so much over the past 20+ years and there has been lots of churn.the pleora stuff is good. Could have sworn they had an RS422 version but can't find it. maybe it was another company or converting to CameraLink. To me, working with these scientific cameras are much more interesting than the 'pretty picture' uncooled systems.I need to gather my stuff together with pictures as I have several blackbodies, lenses, two Merlin Uncooled, a TAU2, an Omega, Radiance 1 shell, and several other items.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 02:19:51 pm
content: yes good point haha. I have been given that "This product is obsolete response" many times before. It was usually when I asked about the SC6000. I will ask to be forwarded to the Paris division.IR_Geek yes. There was a RS-422 version of pleora but it is impossible to find. (I've looked forever. haha). So instead of waiting for it to pop up. I took it into my own hands and found out that the LVDS could work due to very similar chips internally. Then I found this article that confirmed my suspicions. I took each of the data and valid pins and attenuated them with resistors. Checked the voltages and tested it with my merlin camera. And it works! Was very happy it did since it was a breakthrough. Never would I have thought I would get older Merlin cameras to work with such a modern software like ResearchIR. And now I think the Amber cameras have a chance of working as well.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2024, 03:50:39 pm
content: Just an update on this. I haven't had any luck with FLIR US or Paris side. Wish they still kept everything on their servers. I'd imagine most of these indigo products and manuals sitting on a shelf or desk somewhere collecting dust. Most will see them as junk but to us it is gold haha.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 04:42:08 pm
content: Still doing some research about this lens. Apparently Optimum Optical Solutions was acquired by FLIR:https://www.vision-systems.com/non-factory/article/16749435/teledyne-acquires-optimum-optical-strengthens-tactical-ir-imaging-systemsSo using our trusty wayback machine I found some documentation on the TFOV!https://web.archive.org/web/20100308014912/http://www.optimumopticalsystems.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=427d08fa-674e-4eda-874b-b3eb40796c95As well as some specs on an earlier Continuous zoom lens:https://web.archive.org/web/20040805111054/http://optimumopticalsystems.com/flir.htmWhat is nice is it looks like the continuous zoom lens uses standard RS232 settings, which can help in figuring out the commands for my TFOV

author: bCubed
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 08:28:39 pm
content: The TFOV is amazing! But I want to comment on using the Pleora PT1000-LV to interface to RS422 outputs. Several times I have interfaced cameras using the PT1000-LV644-GEV-E interface to convert RS422 to GigE. I didn't use resistors to attenuate the signals because the output from the RS422 is compatible with the input of the PT1000-LV644. You might need resistors if you go the other way around, but if you only care about the outputs from the camera, then you have only to make a connector to get it operational. I'm in the process of doing this now to my Galileo, but have done it successfully with a couple of Santa Barbara Focalplane cameras.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 08:33:20 pm
content: Quote from: bCubed on June 06, 2024, 08:28:39 pmYeah I am going to try interfacing without the resistors. Hopefully nothing bad happens haha. Luckily the signals are from the camera to the Pleora. So if anything the Pleora would be the only one that would be damaged. Not the end of the world since they are pretty cheap and still available.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2024, 04:41:52 pm
content: ok so I decided to dive a little deeper into extracting the firmware from this device. The TN87C51FA1 microcontroller looks like it is of the MCS-51 family and is a variant of the 8051. This microcontroller has 4Kb of EPROM on it, so I am guessing this is where the firmware lies. I have the T84 universal programmer coming in the mail:https://xgecu.myshopify.com/collections/xgecu-t48-tl866ii-3g-programmer. I plan to test this with a blank chip first to see if it reads it properly. Once I know that the universal programmer works with my MCU I will move onto reading the actual chip.The board also has a Xicor X24C04 4Kb EEPROM on it as well. So my question is does anyone have a guess as to what the EEPROM is for? The unit connects to a few magnetic sensors as well as an encoder on the focus motor. Would the EEPROM be responsible for the position information?

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 12:32:28 am
content: Made some more progress on this. I added a PLCC44 Socket to the board. Now I can remove the chip safely and read the chip. What I can try now is read whatever is on there and dump the firmware to another blank chip. Hopefully this will work as it will allow me to save a backup copy as well as experiment with the other chip without needing to mess around with the original. one.After installing the new socket and putting back the original chip I tested the lens again by applying 24V. And to my relief the lens did it's boot up and homing sequence. Good to know the socket install was a success. I had to apply a lot of flux from a flux syringe as well as Chip-Quik. The chip would not budge at first then I remembered the board was potted. So I lifted one corner gently with a pick tool and one corner lifted all while the Chip-Quik kept everything molten. I worked my way around the chip not applying to much pressure and making sure the side I was working on was fully molten.After the chip was removed I used flux and desoldering braid to remove all the excess solder from the pads as well as the pins. And after a lot of alcohol swaps and wipes to clean up the flux, I made sure there were no bridges using a magnifying lamp. I also used the pick tool again to make sure the solder joins were good and I didn't miss a pin.A note on the middle part of the PLCC44 socket: The middle part comes attached from factory but I learned a trick on YouTube where you carefully snip off the legs so u can more easily reach the legs to solder the socket. I placed it back in after the job so it acts as a shim for the chip to make sure the chip doesn't go too deep into the socket.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 01:43:32 am
content: I managed to read the chip! With the beep tone of my programmer and the success message, this indicated I was able to fully read the chip's firmware. I have attached the firmware in intel hex (.hex) and binary format (.bin).You need to remove the .txt extension to get the original file.You have to upload it to the program here.https://xgecu.myshopify.com/collections/xgecu-t48-tl866ii-3g-programmerI tried to copy the ascii from the xprog program but couldn't. (I will try to figure out a way)But here is a screen shot in the meantime. Some of the text is readableHopefully with enough reconstructing I can figure out how to connect to it via RS232

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 07:59:18 am
content: I managed to go another route. I parsed the Intel hex and got rid of all the extra bits such as address checksum etc:(I attached the intel hex parsed and the intel hex with only the data portion)Below is what the formatting of the parsed intel is:Each line must have the format ":LLAAAATT<data>SS"Where:1st char is a colonEverything afterward are 2-hex-char (high-nibble/low-nibble) representations of bytes, eg. "12"==0x12Those bytes are:LL is the lengthAAAA is the addressTT is the record type<data> is 'LL' of data bytesSS is the checksumAfter converting to ASCII we get this (https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/number/hex-to-ascii.html):&ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿuxvØü®¯d`äð£öÂmÆmÊÐuÐÂÖïepîe"äøtùtþtõèip"äö£ôäütýtþtÿtøtõdp"ä£¨©ð£¬­ã·¹¹¹ÂÂþïõð¤ÀàëÅðÎõ¤.þä5ðÍÿ ðê¤.þí5ðýä3Ìð¤,üêð¤,üé ð¤,üè ð¤,ü ðê¤-ýì5ðüé ð¤-ýì5ðüðë¤-ýì5ðüÐàÿMNL"uð äûÌÀàäÉÍÀàäÊÎÀàÃï3ÿ¨æ3öæ3öæ3öë3ûê3úé3ùì3üëêéì@ üëûêúéùÕðÈÐàþÐàýÐàÌøïNML"<èüéýêþëÿïè3PäÃûäúäùäøÓì0ç³ÀÐâÀÐ<Ðð ÷"õðâåð"ìÀà¦çäÃÿäþäýäü"õðÃïõîBíBì ðdÈdÈñ0òEpÓ0ó³ä3"ï+ÿî:þí9ýì8üMNO"ÃïÿîþíýìüMNO" ì¢çüíýîþïÿÛðìMNO" Ãï3ÿî3þí3ýì3üÛñìMNO"ÐÐäp tp££ to`£££ètÀàäÀà"+ûPéÀàêÀàëÀàtÇÀàtÀàÀÀïÀàîÀàíÀàìÀà;ÐàøÐàùÐàúÐàû"ÐàûÐàúÐàùØ+ûP¹ëøìöíöîöïöLMN"¹ìðí£ðî£ðï£ðèëøìòíòîòïòÙ+ûP¹ëøæÿ"¹àÿ"¹äÿ"ëøâÿ"+ûP¹ëøæüæýæþæÿNML"¹àü£àý£àþ£àè¹äütýtþtÑëøâüâýâþâÃ÷+ûP¢÷äuð@uðÿÀàÀàÀà;åð/ÿÐà>þÐà=ýÐà<üØ"ÿFELULLPassword: OKOSS/MOSS Controller Rev - Firmware Version 1.10Copyright (c) 1996-1997 Optimum Optical SystemsCommand List: Error Messages:FN Command Narrow FOV FE FOV ErrorFM Command Middle FOV PE Focus ErrorFW Command Wide FOV ERR Command ErrorFI Initialize FOV CKE Checksum ErrorFS Request FOV StatusPnnnn Focus Command+/- Focus JogPS Request Focus StatusSF Front Temperature SensorSR Rear Temperature SensorMN Activate MechanismMO Deactivate MechanismMS Request Mechanism StatusLUnnnn Store Upper Focus LimitLLnnnn Store Lower Focus LimitLS Request Limit StatusOS Request Optics StatusX Transmit 20 bytes to OpticsR Receive 20 bytes from OpticsW Store 20 bytes in OpticsSFSR0000FWXCKEMNMOWERR - PEFNFMMEu!uèuRÒu¨ÂÂúcú~äõHGú~åH/õHåG>õGú~äõJIú~åJ/õJåI>õIäõAõBõCõDõ?õ@å?dÓP sî3àýüy{A@å@p?Øåcÿ3àþýü{zyxØy{A+uaubï` }~¹ ÿ~}|y{AØsåcû3àúëuð¤Ê«ðuð¤+ÊûïÃÿîþ3àýü{T{zyxy{Ay{A<  ×Âxdk + -°F(HL ÅM O PFR_S GW cX ¶xeædSp#}~½ ¯H®GÁ}~Á ¯J®IÁÜxeædUpExiäõGHxh~î~ÏÃ3Ï3ÞùþåH/õHåG>õGxg~äÿåH/õHåG>õGÂNxeædLpExiäõIJxh~î~ÏÃ3Ï3ÞùþåJ/õJåI>õIxg~äÿåJ/õJåI>õIÂÒ0 u_}~Ä ûxdædOpExeædOp>xfædSp7åG~õ*KåHTÿõ*KåI~õ*KåJTÿõ*K}~Ð @Òú~äõHGú~åH/õHåG>õGú~äõJIú~åJ/õJåI>õI ¸xeæd0pzxhäõ xg~î~ÏÃ3Ï3Þùþå /õ å>õxf~äÿå /õ å>õÿ~« ªïÃõFîõE¡Pfÿ~«FªEïÃÿîþÁäõ'õ(¯F®E7"xeædSpPfÿ~«FªEïÃÿîþÁÒ ¸}~Ô }~6 }~w  ¸u_å_ÃP ¯_úz_í ¸xeædFp3}~ ¯D®C­B¬A{zyx{<ÃäÿäÏ$ÿÏ4þÁxeædRp }~ Ò ¸ ÚÂxeædIp ï` }~¹  }~  HxeædWpuaÒaxeædNpuaÒSxeædMpuaÒExeædSp<0.FfåapWfåapNf åadpMff }~¹ Ò0;¡äõ'õ(¯F®E7g ¸}~ u_Â ûu_u`å`ÃP0å__$døæÿïTÄÿå`$Kø¦å__$døæÿå`$Køæ/ö`Éï` }~  ¸xeædOp0xeædNp"xeædSp0 }~   }~¤ Ò ¸xeædSp6u`å`ÃP¯`úå`$Kø¦`éï` }~  }~Ð Òqï` }~ *u`å`ÃPå`$Kø*¯`K`éúc}~¨ 4åFFpE¡äõ'õ(¯F®E7FåFpE¡äõ'õ(¯F®E7Ò0}~« }~d fÂu_åapu6åadpu6u6 ¯66ú~äõ10¯66ú~å1/õ1å0>õ0¯66ú~äõ32¯66ú~å3/õ3å2>õ2¯66ú~äõ54¯6ú~å5/õ5å4>õ4~#}|«DªC©B¨A+,-./¯1å0þäýüy{,Ø>~}|y{,}~}|y{,¦¯FåEþäýü{ Ty{,¯3å2þäýü{ Ty{,+å4Ãþå5ÿäýüy{,¯5å4þäýüy{,¦äÃ/ÿä.Ï$ÿõ ï4õÓå þå @ åÓ@äõõ uu ÿ}~² "u,u-u.u/ÿåapu8åadpu8u8 ¯88ú~äõ32¯88ú~å3/õ3å2>õ2¯88ú~äõ54¯88ú~å5/õ5å4>õ4¯88ú~äõ76¯8ú~å7/õ7å6>õ6¯ åþäýüy{,+¯7å6þäýüy{,Ø~}|y{,¯/®.­-¬,{zyx¦01~#}|«DªC©B¨A+,-./¯3å2þäýüy{,Ø~à}|y{,~Ð}|y{,¦å5%1ÿå450þïÃ/õFî.õE"&å&uðÿ7å&uðåðÿ7fX~~Â"ÿ~«FªEïÃÿîþÓïHîG@ ÿ~«HªGïÃõFîõE}~² 2ÿ~«FªEïÃÿîþÃïJîIPÿ~«JªIïÃõFîõE}~² "u"Âu`å`ÃPå`$Kø#å"%#õ"å#`Ò`â0¯"""&%ÂÂ³å(®'ÎÃÎßùÿbå(TÄÿå%zOÿb¯&bÒ³"u)åbp$åap )åadp))Aåbp åap )åadp) åap)) åap)å)` }~¹ 3 ab¯aïp }~  ïdp }~¶ ïdp }~º "äõ9õ:õ;õ<õ=uu ÿ;¡äõ'õ(¯F®E7u> õÒ Â¡å=ÃP+¯<®;­:¬9{ zyxtðp =u=y{9ÓÎÒ¡å=ÃPu>läõ9õ:õ;õ<õ=¯<®;­:¬9{zyxtðpy{9ÓßÂ å=ÃP+¯<®;­:¬9{ zyxtðp0=u=y{9ÓÎÒ å=ÃPu>~Ò¡Â å=ÃP+¯<®;­:¬9{@zyxtðp0=u=y{9ÓÎå=ÃPu>Gäõ9õ:õ;õ<õ=å=ÃP+¯<®;­:¬9{ zyxtðp0=u=y{9ÓÎå=ÃPu>Ò Ò¡uaub¯>"(äõ"õ#õ$õ%õ&õ'å(pÂ Ò¡Ò Â¡å&ÃP+¯%®$­#¬"{ zyxtðp &u&y{"ÓÎå&ÃPÒ Ò¡"u&äõ"õ#õ$õ%å&ÃP+¯%®$­#¬"{ zyxtðp0&u&y{"ÓÎÒ Ò¡å&ÃP""#ïÃ@FfNå#Ã@Ef@å#Ã@Df2å#Ã @Cf$å#Ã @Bfå#Ã@Afå#$0ÿf""ïÃ0@å"Ã:På"$Ðÿ"å"ÃA@å"ÃGPå"$Éÿ""%$å%®$ ÎÃÎßùÿ7å$Tþå%ä7äþå%ÎÃÎßùÿ7å%Tÿ7f"&Ò¤Ò¥å&p&Â¤Ø~ï~Ò¤Ò¥0 }~¾  }~¤ 20 }~¾ $Â¥Ø~ï~Ò¤Ò¥  }~¾  }~  ""0ûÒ "")äõ&õ'Âå)Ã@õÂ²å)TÄõ)å)$õ)u(å(Ã På)T`ÒÂå)Ã3õ)ÒÂ(ßÂÒ²~~Â²u(å(ÃP ÒÂå'Ã3õ'å&3õ&0'å'p&(ÛÒ²¯'®&"~"+èå+3@ ¯+è¡¤å+Tÿè¥u)u*å*Ã P"å)Ã3õ)Ò~~0C)Â~~*×¯)"#u"å"Ã På#T`ÒÂå#Ã3õ#ÒÂ"ß"(ÂÂu&å&Ã P3å(Tõ'å(Ã3õ(å'pÂÒ~~Ò~~Â~~&ÆÒ~~Ò~~Â~~"Ò~~Ò~~Â~~"Â~~Ò~~Ò~~"%$# !«%ª$©#`©#ª$%å%p$ûfß")èå)3@  ¯)¤å)Tÿ¯*ä~~"%$äõ"õ#Ãå#%å"$P#å#p"ë"ÀÐÀàÀ0$Âå_Ã)@u_å__$dø¦ådp Òå_$døv0ÂÂÐÐàÐÐ2ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿMaking great progress

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 08:02:58 am
content: The garbled text is prob just the program's assembly code but what is most interesting is this part. (And wow 1996-1997) :LULLPassword: OKOSS/MOSS Controller Rev - Firmware Version 1.10Copyright (c) 1996-1997 Optimum Optical SystemsCommand List: Error Messages:FN Command Narrow FOV FE FOV ErrorFM Command Middle FOV PE Focus ErrorFW Command Wide FOV ERR Command ErrorFI Initialize FOV CKE Checksum ErrorFS Request FOV StatusPnnnn Focus Command+/- Focus JogPS Request Focus StatusSF Front Temperature SensorSR Rear Temperature SensorMN Activate MechanismMO Deactivate MechanismMS Request Mechanism StatusLUnnnn Store Upper Focus LimitLLnnnn Store Lower Focus LimitLS Request Limit StatusOS Request Optics StatusX Transmit 20 bytes to OpticsR Receive 20 bytes from OpticsW Store 20 bytes in OpticsSFSR0000FWXCKEMNMOWERR - PEFNFMME

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 09:52:17 pm
content: I was just looking through a file that is supplied with the Amber UserMenu 3 program. It would appear that there is lens control functionality within UserMenu and the ICD file mentions a triple field of view lensI am still working my way around the UserMenu files so cannot comment further on any lens control functionality. Take a look at the attached file in a text editor like Notepad and the ICD makes interesting reading.Update: I just checked the menu creation files and I can see menu entries for controlling both the DFV and TFV lensesFraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 09:55:56 pm
content: Oh wow!!! You are correct:>>;=======================================================================>>; Menu 18 - TFV Lens>>;=======================================================================>>Function:TFV Lens Control>>FunctionName:TFVLens>>SelectionLetters:TF>>MenuName:Lens>>Description:Functions for use with the Tri-field of view lensThanks for this great find. Will do more research myself, as well!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:04:05 pm
content: The files associated with the UserMenu program are making interesting reading. I am hoping that there may be instruction entries that may be changed so that the software works with my Radiance 1 camera. In the GALPRC.MNU file I am seeing various codes and function numbers associated with commands. More investigation needed. I need to prove to myself that the communications test timeout is not a hardware issue as the ICD suggests that the link test uses no data packets.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:08:22 pm
content: Yeah im going to have to do some deep diving myself. I am going to use a serial monitoring program and see what the reads and writes are.I dont think these cameras respond in normal ASCII since most functions when using RTools' programs are seen in Hex commands.The attached doc is from someone who owned a Galileo camera as well. He was able to decipher some of the command structure. I believe the Radiance 1 is the same just using different reserved commands.In the text file left hex is prob the "write to camera" and the right is the response from camera.(Write) 03 00 0A 02 00 24 FF FF 00 00 31 02 00 00 (Read)03 00 0A 02 00 24 00 00 00 00 33 00 00 00 // AGC ON

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:21:40 pm
content: Something I am seeing from the files provided with UserMenu is file names "GALPRC" and "GALUPRC". I am thinking GALPRC is an advanced menu and GALUPRC is a standard menu. I hope there is no password barrier to accessing any advanced menu that may exist. I see that the GALUPRC ICD file mentions only the DFV lens whilst teh GALPRC ICD mentions DFV and TFV.I tested both of my Radiance 1 cameras with UserMenu running on an era appropriate 80286 PC to see if that would work. I still had communications test timeout errors with NIL data received, so it is not a case of needing the right age of computer to use this DOS software.Thank you for the file. Have you had UserMenu3 working with a Galileo ? I hope the copy of UserMenu3 that I have is not in some way faultyFraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:24:19 pm
content: Yeah I have not tested usermenu myself as I have been using the TWI software with the Galileo/Radiance HS. It is on my to do list though. I have to setup Dos in a box and hopefully I can communicate via that. Or else I have to find something old enough to run MS-DOS haha.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 11:12:14 pm
content: I shall have to try the TWI software with my Radiance 1 to see if it complains about not seeing a Galileo HS connected. I should have done that before nowThat would show whether there really is a camera identity code present in the command protocol. Such a pity if there is and it is embedded in the UserMenu EXE file.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 11:15:13 pm
content: The TWI software is very specific with the firmware. Maybe typing 3.0 will work? But not sure. I find using RTool's Radiance 1 GUI the best. You dont need a license to run just the Radiance 1 software. Also I will update you on the Data Acquisition of the Radiance 1. If I can get the pleora LVDS working with the Radiance 1 you will most likely be able to use it in FLIR ResearchIR

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 07:40:02 am
content: Huge progress on both figuring out Usermenu as well as the TFOV menu. Given that there were no instructions in any of the usermenu version. I decided to just take a look at all the files itself under a text editor.I came across a few batch files found in an older version of usermenu called GAL158 (GAL probably means Galileo). They had a weird format so to investigate deeper I went into Usermenu itself. After firing up Usermenu and hitting F1, I found an interesting function under the Direct Menu Manipulation Commands:;mn, ‹filename>, ‹menuname> (diagnostic user only).After comparing this structure to the batch files I found that the command:;mn,Galuprc,MainMenucame up a alot. So when firing up Usermenu.exe from Menu3 in DosBox I typed in (exactly as seen):;mn,Galprc,MainMenuAnd boom it showed the advanced menu. I chose this specific command because of what @Fraser found earlier in GalprcAlso notice the difference between the titles in the attached photos. One saysUsermenu Menu: Radiance HSand the other saysDiagnostic Menu: Radiance HSOnce I get this connected to a serial monitor I will see what kind of commands (most likely hex) are being sent out. And hopefully this will once and for all solve the mysterious TFOV commandsBut it is pretty late so I will investigate tomorrow haha.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2024, 07:03:01 pm
content: Got around to playing with the .HEX File I extracted from the main 87C51 chip and these are the results. Plan is to play around with it in the a dev board.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 04:29:12 pm
content: Apparently in 2002 Indigo Systems (aka FLIR) made a fully enclosed system with this lens called the TH-10.Looks like there were options for both Merlin and Phoenix MWIR systems. Very interestinghttps://web.archive.org/web/20040615085358/http://www.indigosystems.com/PDF/TH-10_Brochure.pdf

author: ij-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 01:13:37 am
content: Quote from: MrSheep on January 06, 2025, 04:29:12 pmWe actually own one of these, which has the Radiance and the TFOV lens inside of it (see attached). We are able to talk to the camera, but not the lens, yet.Your investigation so far has been really helpful in narrowing down some options on what commands to send it!

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 01:23:48 am
content: Wow what a find! How did you come across this camera? It is quite rare to have. (Also curious to see which Amber camera you have Radiance 1 or Radiance HS/Galileo)And could you post more pictures of it? That would be helpful in figuring out how to communicate with it.

author: ij-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 06:29:19 pm
content: There are many electronic devices in storage procured over many years... I honestly couldn't tell you how we got this. It has a Radiance 1 in it (we actually have 3 of those!) and I've been talking to Fraser regarding his experiences with the camera, which has been very helpful.I've attached some more pictures - if there's something specific you're looking for send me a PM.(I'm slightly miffed about the lens connector ending in a molex, I'm suspicious that somebody at some later date may have done that)

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 06:45:04 pm
content: Wow, I can see now how they fit the Radiance one in there.How many wires are going from the molex to the DB9? A pic of the molex and other connections would help.

author: ij-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 31, 2025, 07:22:06 pm
content: Quote from: MrSheep on January 17, 2025, 06:45:04 pm5 wires, to pins 2, 3, 5 (presumably RX/TX/Ground) and pins 8 & 9 (24VDC/GND)Quote from: MrSheep on July 15, 2024, 07:40:02 amDid you have any luck seeing any of the commands? I've tried sending the lens all kinds of things via RS-232, but see no changes and receive no responses, so I assume it's looking for something specific.I did find the correct lens control command codes to send to the Radiance 1 camera, but those only control lenses that are connected via the front port on the camera...

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2025, 07:42:48 pm
content: No I haven't. When I turn on the lens it does its limit switch homing sequence but after that I don't get any response from the RS-232.This is why I am currently trying to decompile the original firmware to see if I can figure out the original commands of the lens. The hex code is attached in previous post, if you want to have a shot at it.How is the TFOV lens connected? Is it connected via a main connector harness and not to the front lens connector of the radiance?Do you have a picture of the rear wiring of the TH-10

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 06:13:17 pm
content: Finally an update on this project. So I managed to copy the firmware of the original chip to a new chip to experiment on. After finding the right crystal (11.0592Mhz) and digging through the code again I was able to talk to the chip via RS232 on my 8051 development board. I am getting responses from the chip! Will update with more information soon, Just need to confirm some things and see if I can establish communication with the original chip/board.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 07:06:38 pm
content: So here is the command list that was extracted from the Firmware months ago and it turns out to be correct:LULLPassword: OKOSS/MOSS Controller Rev - Firmware Version 1.10Copyright (c) 1996-1997 Optimum Optical SystemsCommand List: Error Messages:FN Command Narrow FOV FE FOV ErrorFM Command Middle FOV PE Focus ErrorFW Command Wide FOV ERR Command ErrorFI Initialize FOV CKE Checksum ErrorFS Request FOV StatusPnnnn Focus Command+/- Focus JogPS Request Focus StatusSF Front Temperature SensorSR Rear Temperature SensorMN Activate MechanismMO Deactivate MechanismMS Request Mechanism StatusLUnnnn Store Upper Focus LimitLLnnnn Store Lower Focus LimitLS Request Limit StatusOS Request Optics StatusX Transmit 20 bytes to OpticsR Receive 20 bytes from OpticsW Store 20 bytes in OpticsIn order for me to figure out how to communicate with the controller I had to convert the code to intel hex and disassemble it to see what the code was doing. While I am not 100% the disassembly is correct I found something in the code that was very critical in figuring out the rs232 config. (The assembly code can be found in an earlier post)This particular block of code was key in understanding how the 8051 chip setup it's RS232 communication:X06c2: mov tmod,#21h ; 06c2 75 89 21 u.!mov th1,#0e8h ; 06c5 75 8d e8 u.hmov scon,#52h ; 06c8 75 98 52 u.Rsetb tr1 ; 06cb d2 8e R.mov ie,#90h ; 06cd 75 a8 90 u(.clr 20h.1 ; 06d0 c2 01 B.clr 20h.2 ; 06d2 c2 02 B.mov r7,#12h ; 06d4 7f 12 ..The first three lines translates to this:TMOD = 0x21: This sets Timer 1 to Mode 2 (8-bit auto-reload) for baud rate generation. It also sets Timer 0 to Mode 1 (16-bit timer).TH1 = 0xE8: This is the reload value for Timer 1, which influences the baud rate.SCON = 52H configures the 8051 for 8-bit asynchronous serial communication (Mode 1) with reception enabled and the transmit buffer ready for the first transmission.After putting in the config to this site:https://www.keil.com/c51/baudrate.aspI was able to determine the baud rate for a 11.0592Mhz crystal, 0xE8 in the TH1 Register, and Timer 1 to Mode 2 (TMOD = 0x21) was 1200So I was able to connect my dev board using a baud rate of 1200 (not the common 9600) And I got a response that made sense in the hex/ascii response!Swapping to any other baud rate gave me hex valves that made no sense. So this little experiment emphasizes how important it is to get the correct baud rate to any device you want to communicate with.In the attached screenshot you can see the response I get when I first boot up. These codes translate to FOV Error and Focus Error.This makes a lot of sense since when using my dev board the chip is not connected to any sensors or motors.This was the final breakthrough since this error code gave me the final hint in the command structure,I would have not gotten this response on my original controller because there was no error to spit out.While looking at the hex response, I noticed the 0D char at the end of each command.This 0D character translates to "CR" or carriage return.So when typing in an ascii command and selecting the "carriage return" option in HTerm I am able to successfully send the commands to the lens controller.So in summary to communicate with this Lens you need to:1) Use a baud rate of 12002) Use my extracted command list3) Use a carriage return when sending the commands (CR)The mystery has finally been solved!

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 07:08:47 pm
content: Although difficult and frustrating at times. This project taught me a lot about how older microcontrollers work such as the 8051. Got to experience using the 8051 in a devboard as well as using a phone disinfectant device as a UV Eprom eraser.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 09:56:50 pm
content: Excellent workThere are a lot of 8051's hiding in microcontrollers even todayFraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 10:03:00 pm
content: Yup haha they are very robust and stand the test of time. I see them in PLC44 packaging in many industrial/military systems.

author: il-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:28:11 pm
content: Coincidentally, we (I work with IJ-AMI) reached the same conclusion with our TFOV this past Thursday. I took your assembly listing and watched it do its stuff in an 8051 emulator for a while, including buffering RS232 messages in the ISR. We also discovered the RS232 messages emanating from the 16-pin Fischer connector on the front of the Amber Radiance at 9600 baud which are prefixed with a colon.Our TFOV lens is running firmware version 1.6 which includes a "help" function using command 'H'. This version does not seem to support incremental focus adjustments, and focus setpoint command seems to want five hex digits.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:33:36 pm
content: Quote from: il-ami on July 07, 2025, 10:28:11 pmWhat 8051 emulator do you use? I had a hard time getting the .hex/.bin to run.My V1.10 firmware has a help function (wasn't listed but figured out it had it by chance, since help is pretty common command) and a Focus Jog function. Can you take a screen shot of your menu options, after typing HELP? I wonder if there is any benefit to the V1.6 FirmwareAnd Yes I still need to figure out the HEX digits for the Focus. I plan on Jogging the focus to determine what each step does to the HEX Value

author: il-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:53:22 pm
content: MCU 8051 IDE loaded up the "87C51FA@PLCC44_FLASH.d52" file just fine. As I recall I needed to set it up for an 87C52 however.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 10:57:09 pm
content: il-ami,Do you have any control software for your Radiance camera please ? I have been hunting for the Menu software for my Radiance 1 but can only find it for the Radiance HSFraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:05:50 pm
content: Quote from: il-ami on July 07, 2025, 10:53:22 pmOh wow it looks like the V1.6 has Athermalization control. How many temperature sensors do you have I can only read the front sensor. So I assume I have 1 only.Are you able to extract the firmware for your controller? It is a bit of work (see previous post of me installing a PLC44 socket.) So it is understandable if you can't.And what Fraser said. The only other software I know that controls the Radiance 1 is FLIR R-Tools. And that only controls the DIOP 75/250 Lens. Looks like your particular Radiance 1 was mated to the TFOV lens from factory.

author: il-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:10:53 pm
content: What we have been using with our Amber Radiance 1 is the Radiance 1 Windows GUI that is part of RTools. With the most sincere of apologies, redistributing it would represent a severe ethical lapse.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:32:49 pm
content: il-ami,No problem. I am currently using the RTOOLS camera controller program as wellIt works even when RTOOLS is not activated with a licenceI am searching for the original DOS program from Amber called “Menu” for Radiance 1, firmware version 3.0. The search goes onFraser

author: il-ami
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:39:33 pm
content: I only see the single thermal sensor at the front of our TFOV optical assembly. I'm pretty sure that our TH-10 had been frankensteined here before ij-ami and I were tasked with getting it working again. That Molex connector on the lens RS232 and power lines as well as several disconnected wires from the Deutch D38999 bulkhead suggest prior futzing. Since we plan on putting the TH-10 into some kind of service, I can't justify the risk of desoldering, dumping and socketing the 87C51 at the moment.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2025, 11:59:40 pm
content: Yeah that is understandable. It is definitely not an "easy job" per se haha. Also I think the reason why your lens was frankensteined was because of the baud rate mismatch. If your Radiance 1 truly outputs only 9600 baud from the front connector then commands from the Radiance 1 will not work as the lens only responds to 1200 baud. Unless there was some sort of baud rate changer circuit.Have you tried to use the + or - command to jog the focus? I tested it and it changes the hex value by 1.@Fraser What functions are you looking for in the original usermenu software? The RTools GUI has most of the functions if not more. I can try playing around with my Radiance 1 to see if I can modify the hex commands coming out of Usermenu.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 12:27:53 am
content: MrSheep,I was interested in any camera dead pixel and NUC functionality as my original Radiance 1 has a strange issue where the RTOOLS NUC process finds masses of “dead” pixels and even leaves a few visible on the display after an NUC. I am wondering whether the original “Menu” program would do a better job of dead pixel detection, possibly with an adjustable threshold ? Wishful thinking on my part maybe.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2025, 01:45:54 am
content: Ah I see. Yeah I've noticed that too. Some dead pixels not going away. I suspect it has to do with its NUC algorithm (Probably nearest neighbor). NUC Algorithms have greatly improved over the years. The ones by FLIR are the best I've seen so far. Do you have a blackbody calibrator? I have one that is 6in and that goes to 500C. I will try with that to see if that helps on my Radiance camera as well.As for the FOV project the next step would be to make some sort of Arduino to RS232 interface with LCD. (Like the ones by DIOP). So much easier to use physical buttons to jog the lens focus or change FOV.