Efinix Trion FPGA's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 03:52:22 pm
content: Mention of these in another post caught my attention. Digikey seems to have plenty of stock and it seems these are some of the lowest cost FPGA's I've never heard of.So why no low cost 3rd party/hobbyist boards, not even on AliExpress.Seems the software is not free unless you purchase an Efinix dev board. That must be a very short sited policy as hobbyists get proficient and take their skills to future employers.It certainly stops 3rd parties designing low cost boards as no one can use them without the software license.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 06:29:02 pm
content: Hi. We are reviewing the Efinix and also the Gowin devices for different projects. Respectively have tools for both in-house. Both are strong players in the marketplace and are supporting at least in the US markets.1) For the TRION device introduction, consider the XYLONI board:https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/efinix-inc/XYLONI/13535080?s=N4IgTCBcDaIB4E8A2B7AdgSxAXQL5ACool kit @ $35 USD.Use it to test their toolchain with Verilog / VHDL or even a RISC-V CPU.The purchase of this kit (or any other from their product line) will grant you a 1 year license.2) I think Efinix is flexible with respect to the licensing of their tools. Contact them directly if you are considering to build some kit or tool with their devices and wish to pair it up with a license for the end customer. As they will be selling you silicon, they should be fine with the license support.3) Also review Gowin FPGA devices - IMHO the pricing on Mouser are a bit high for their product line. Contact Edge Electronics (Rob) for some competitive pricing. Excellent support from David (FAE in the USA) for Gowin line. He has some very good videos on Vimeo on how to use their tools to enable a soft or hard CPU, etc.4) Gowin offers some creative FPGA devices at low cost - . Cannot share our pricing but can say that the FPGA with HARD CM3 CPU is < $ 3 USD in low volume.On the Gowin devices, you can purchase from Amazon or like us, from Aliexpress - the MINISTAR kit which features the FPGA (about 4900 LUTS + Hard CM3 CPU):https://github.com/magicjellybeanfpga/MiniStarPost back if you need more details on either line.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 08:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: mon2 on November 04, 2021, 06:29:02 pmDo you know what happens after 1 year? Do they grant a free extension, or is there a renewal fee?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 08:46:56 pm
content: Quote from: woofy on November 04, 2021, 08:19:55 pm$35 for a new board and another year license?

author: davorin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 09:05:08 pm
content: Exactly ;-)Get a new Fireant or Xyloni board if you need to extend the license..But you can still use the software if the one year is over as there is no license file involved.Only downloading the IDE is disabled when you don't renew...I got me two Xyloni boards...and when I need to download a new version I just register the serial number of a board.BTW: Had the experience that Fireant boards don't come with a serial number...so had to mail a copy of the invoice to Efinix.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 10:25:54 pm
content: Is the xyloni board node or device locked to the device on the board or can you use the software to target other devices - say a T8 in the 144 pin TQFP?

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 11:47:53 pm
content: No lock on the license or pc. No restrictions on the target FPGA devices. As per @Davorin's post - the software maintenance will expire if you do not renew. So you will be unable to download the latest tools / patches. Any purchased kit will grant you the 1 year license. I think it is more than fair to access the toolchain. Time permitting, we plan to build some low cost break out boards for their devices like we have done for the Lattice ICE40UL1K (pdip). Feedback and suggestions are welcomed. We have a full SMT line in house.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 10:20:48 am
content: Quote from: mon2 on November 04, 2021, 11:47:53 pmIt's great that you are thinking of doing some breakout boards, you may be the first to get there.I think if I wanted one of your breakout boards and also needed to purchase a XYLONI board to get the licence, I'd likely just use the XYLONI board. This is the point I was making in my first post that the restrictive licence seems a short sighted policy. I hope they change it and make the IDE freely downloadable. Then there will be plenty of low cost breakout boards available, and that can only be a good thing as these really do look interesting chips.

author: davorin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 10:34:31 am
content: Be aware that those boards with a T8 are much slower....as they offer the T4 and T8 only in C2 speed except for the QFP package...others can be clocked much higher.For example just synthesizing the tv80 core gives maximum CPU clock:Code:T4F81C225MHzT8F81C225MHzT8Q144C358.2MHzT8Q144C471.5MHzT8Q144C4L58.2MHzT8Q144I471.5MHzT8Q144I4L58.3MHzT13F169C481.2MHzT13F169I481.2MHzT13F256C477.4MHz

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 10:57:19 am
content: @woofy, actually the factory is very encouraging. We are dealing with their USA office. Respectively stated we can work with them to pair up our pending kits with a license. I think that both of the discussed vendors, Efinix and Gowin wish to grow their market space with affordable FPGAs. Each is shipping high volumes of their parts for assorted devices. We are thankful that they are listening to feedback and potential bug fixes, etc.

author: paf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 09:16:00 am
content: Nice Podcast about Efinix:https://theamphour.com/535-efinix-fpgas-with-sammy-cheung/

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 05:56:10 pm
content: Well I went ahead and ordered a Xyloni module to play with. So far I quite like it.The IDE is pleasant to use. It goes full flow to bit stream with a single button press, and presents resource utilisation and timing on the screen.Programming is just a click away.I tried my nanocore cpu out on the module with a small program to increment a counter, output to the leds, delay and repeat.It uses 753 LE's and runs at 47MHz.For comparison, the ice40 HX8k using yosys/nextpnr uses 618 LC's and runs at 80MHz.The C2 speed grade on the Xyloni board is the slowest one. The C3/C4 grades available on the 144 pin QFP would probably equal the HX.On the downside, when I registered the kit to get the software, I had ONE DAY ONLY to download it. I did it in time, but the chance was gone the following day. Watch out for that if you register on a Friday.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:11:36 pm
content: Quote from: woofy on November 16, 2021, 05:56:10 pmI seriously hate single-button-press design flows. If you try to do anything beyond a canned example, you run into all sorts of problems with beginning flows.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 06:24:23 pm
content: I should have said it *can* do a full flow with a single click.It will stop if errors are detected, and also the automated flow can be turned off.There are buttons for synthesize, place, route and generate bit stream.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2021, 07:16:28 pm
content: Sure, automated full flow is a big word here anyway.In all vendor tools I've used, just triggering the build/rebuild of the bitstream will automatically trigger the parts of the whole flow which have been modified anyway. Nothing special.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2022, 09:12:59 pm
content: Any experienced FPGA people here got some comments on the Efinix parts? and the poerformance of the toolchain ?I've read through all of the doco on their website (half a day), and the mix of features (for me) hits the spot. They're well priced, and wow those new Titanium FPGAs are very fast.I guess I am more interested in the current Trion parts with the low leakage process than the newer parts- got to get my hands on a dev kit so I can run the power estimator over a few designs and understand the static power.I use Xilinx Ultrascale for most designs, but there is certainly a place for these .

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2022, 10:01:37 pm
content: Would not consider myself to be FPGA experienced but with some experience in using the Efinix tools and device.1) Parts are fair priced.2) Parts are available.3) Kits now appear to be stable but had a rough start. Purchased their MIPI Ti60 kit twice to fix my first kit. Issue was with a defective SAMTEC connector that bridges their daughter board. In the process, the adjustable power supply for the backlight killed the display panel. The adjustable voltage regulator is a severe failure of a design when the backlight is this sensitive. In addition, the Ti60 features yet again, another adjustable pot for the core Vcc that is expected to be dialed to 0v95. Too high and the FPGA is blown. We have a BGA rework machine so it is a not an issue but again, a failure of a design on the power supply. These 2 rails should have been factory set and LOCKED down. Use fixed regulators in the future.4) The toolchain takes a very long time to run -> ~1 hour on our i5 lab box. Gowin tools do not take this long but to be fair, not the same density either. The saving grace here is that once the IP has the embedded RISC-V processor, the compiler for this micro is fast which is where we are really building up our IP.No included simulator with Efinix but other tools can be used. TBH - we have not had a need for this tool...yet.Gowin includes a simulator.5) Support is off the charts - have had numerous replies on a Sunday - yes Sunday. It is the limited 'free time' we have had to focus on the too many open next gen designs. Sales support is great and have us alerts on when inventory will be flowing through distribution. Gowin is also strong on support.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2022, 10:34:11 pm
content: Quote from: mon2 on June 09, 2022, 10:01:37 pmHow complex is this design?

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2022, 11:15:12 pm
content: thanks mon2do you think this design took a long time to place and route (or was it synthesis time ? ) because the timing closure was difficult (due to either poor/inexperienced design or a very tough (optimistic) timing strategy ) ?maybe you can give us some details.I am waiting for dev kits thast I want to come back into stockI am happy to buy one from someone for what they paid.glen

author: SpacedCowboy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2022, 05:19:32 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 04, 2021, 08:46:56 pmI pinged the FAE and got a relicence for a year free of charge. Talk and ask - the worst that can happen is they say no. I'm no huge consumer of their parts, but I've always had reasonable ranging up to awesome responses from them, and have frequently got answers back in minutes rather than days...

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2022, 06:18:37 pm
content: Quote from: glenenglish on June 09, 2022, 11:15:12 pmEfinix still claims the Xyloni board is $35, but now DigiKey's price is $75 and there is zero stock.So the idea of "buy a board and get access to the tools" is a big fail.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2022, 07:18:43 pm
content: QuoteWow!! The Xyloni features the FTDI FT4232H onboard. Betting that this component is causing the shortage and/or price hike. Check the cost of the FTDI devices offshore, they are insanely priced. Mega gouging.I know that we have been waiting and waiting and waiting for the FT232HQ to arrive and numerous promise dates have been broken.On the time to run the toolchain (~1 hour) - this was for the Ti60 target and was the sample project the factory supplies to capture the RPI camera (CSI interface) and then stream it out to the MIPI DSI panel. The same demo can also stream the data to the host PC over the USB 3.0 interface as a UVC camera.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2022, 09:43:25 pm
content: Hi mon2You are saying the unchanged , untouched example design took 1 hour to build ? hmmWe all know the tool performance effect of over constraining, and indeed not constraining when we should constrain, and inappropriate constraints, like not defining multi-cycles etc, and the tool works its guts out to satisfy what is a dont-care.Anyway much to learn on the tools side of this series. In Vivado, everything is timed unless it is specifically not. which leads to quite high build times and slow max clocks for beginners who have not read and understood the "Xilinx Guide to Timing Constraints" 400 pages. LOL.-glen

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2022, 10:06:21 pm
content: post scriptinteresting, the tools bring in the concept and practice of SEED SWEEPING.and plenty of fairly well described a simple optimization strategies, so it looks friendly to both beginner and experienced users.and the constraints keywords look very familiar (Xilinx)I am a fairly heavy user of Logicore IP with xilinx, and if I use these chips, I might need to team it with a high level synthesis tool (that is at least partially hardware aware) , in order to save some HDL write/test time. (and burn gates).glen

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 12:39:32 pm
content: Now Efinix provides FREE licenses for the Efinity software.No need to buy a starter kithttps://www.efinixinc.com/products-efinity.htmlBR JarekC

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 01:00:13 pm
content: I hadn't noticed that, it's a sensible move on their part.Hopefully it will encourage 3rd party modules.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 01:00:52 pm
content: Good to know. I can see these guys getting a lot of design wins, given that both Altera and Xilinx still seem to be vapourware.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 04:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 05, 2023, 01:00:52 pmThat depends on how quickly they can get real parts out of the door. Also there is zero information about pricing. Not a good sign either. I loath using Xilinx due to their random pricing strategy. I could use some high speed Serdes interfaces for a design but none of the Efinix parts seem to actually have those.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 07:40:06 pm
content: They're ex-stock at Digi-key, and also available from their designated distributor TRS-Star in Germany.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 03:41:48 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 05, 2023, 01:00:52 pmI don't know about Altera, but there are quite a number of Xilinx 7 series devices in stock at Digikey and Mouser. They even have some of their latest Artix Ultrascale+ devices. The only problem is price...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 03:59:42 am
content: Yeah, Lattice parts are also back in stock but also at a +30% to +50% price increase compared to before the shortage.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 12:07:41 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 05, 2023, 07:40:06 pmYou are right. My mind was stuck at the devices with the high speed Serdes interfaces.Quote from: asmi on April 06, 2023, 03:41:48 amFor me the problem is that I need Xilinx 6 series devices for existing designs...If I need to design in a different FPGA, it won't be coming from Xilinx.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 07:40:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 06, 2023, 12:07:41 pmYes, the 6 series is currently unobtainium, it's now even worse than it ever was, it looks like Xilinx has decided to stop producing any, or something.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 06, 2023, 07:40:20 pmThere are some in stock at LCSC, so if one really need them, he can get them. But I'm super-happy that at least 7 series are back in stock!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on April 06, 2023, 08:13:54 pmAh true, octopart doesn't show any LCSC stock that I saw, but LCSC has... some.https://www.lcsc.com/products/Programmable-Logic-Device-CPLDs-FPGAs_11330.html?keyword=xc6slxVery limited. But if you happen to need a handful of one of the listed ones. Hurry.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:37:59 pm
content: I have bought a full tray of TI60 parts, and I have the Ti180dev kit. Yes- the SERDES are coming....What the parts shortage of Xilinx has done- ,( and the Titanium Efinix parts availability) ... is that now I wont go back to 7 series parts. I'll continue to use the Ultrascale Xilinx parts for my big designs, but all tasks that can be done from 7 series, are now going over to , and new designs are Efinix Titanium. So, XIlinx has let others eat their lunch with all the supply issues. It's an enormous pain for me to transition, but the power consumption and speed of these Titanium parts is far ahead of the others. You do want to have plenty of logic in hand. I'm using a Ti60 for a XC7S25 job.Yes on the headline, for the money the xilinx has half the logic cells- but the Efinix logic cells are simple, so you (often) need more of them. And more interestingly the pricing is similar- so Efinix knows the size comparisions.... they're not dumb !Actually the static of the Xilinx 7 series and Efinix seems about the same, (7 series 28nm process is fairly low leakage)but the Efinix parts use less power when they're switching. (16nm) . I'm transitioning to writing HLS code for the Efinix fabric since I dont have the huge Xilinx logicCore library to work with. That's the thing, the XIlinx is good value for money when you consider the huge IP available and the excellent documentation. But Xilinx - you forced me to buy Efinix because you could not supply....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 06, 2023, 07:40:20 pmCould be but it seriously messes up availability of a high-tech product that is unique in the entire world and wanted by many research laboratories.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:57:39 pm
content: But anything designed with 6 series is almost from from the last century.....I am surprised that it is still relevant.

author: AK6DN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 12:33:32 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 06, 2023, 07:40:20 pmWith Xilinx/AMD and Altera/Intel, it is not q question of production, but of allocation.They are producing the same number, or more of parts as before.But those customers that deal direct with guaranteed delivery, precommitted purchase contracts are consuming all the parts.Distributors get what is left, which over the last year or so has been nothing.I used to work for a large telecom manufacturer which had a purchasing department which dealt direct with Altera, Xilinx, etc.When we wanted to use a new (or existing) part it had to get their procurement blessing, and then they guaranteed us supply for the next five to seven years.So everybody who believes that Altera, Xilinx, et al have 'stopped' making parts over the last couple of years are misinformed.It is just that all the big multinational manufacturers have soaked up all the production capacity, leaving little to none for the small design houses.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 09:47:51 am
content: The problem is that the assemblers that buy directly from Xilinx can't get the parts either. The 'product' I mentioned earlier is a known project to Xilinx and even gets a discount from Xilinx due to volume. There is a huge party behind the development of it, nevertheless Xilinx won't deliver parts. IOW: I'm more inclined to believe that Covid caused a hickup in production somewhere (doesn't even have to be wafer fabrication) and there is a lot of catching up to do. But that doesn't help customers that need parts right now.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 08:16:25 pm
content: Anyway, these Efinix devices look promising. It looks like the Fireant board is not available at the moment. Are there any other cheap Efinix Trion / Titan development boards? I'm planning on doing some initial research work for a new project and it would be nice to compare Efinix and Gowin head to head. I already have the Gowin boards.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 10:57:09 pm
content: Gowin ? ! ROFL. that's not even a fair comparison. That's like low end lattice comparison.If you cant spend USD100 on an eval board then you've have probably chosen the wrong technology for your project.Honestly- sounds like Gowin or Lattice is a good choice for what you are doing- $1 chips.EFINIX is NOT a low end FPGA.Try Lattice MACH X02, they're quite nifty.Efinix : Suggest just buy eval board.. there are many of them starting at USD75. digikey have 750 in stock...https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/evaluation-boards-embedded-complex-logic-fpga-cpld/796?s=N4IgTCBcDaIKYDMCWA7JAPABHAbgQwBsBXPAFyQHsUQBdAXyAthe big board for the Ti180, that comes with a swag of plug in modules, cameras etc is only USD850. That board is cheap for what is included.I suggest NOT the lowest grade board, buy a eval board that has room to do soemthing useful like theT20F256C-DK USD$150, or the smallest Titanium Ti60 board at USD$360.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 11:18:41 pm
content: The MachXO2 is interesting for some applications but certainly not a match for a Spartan-6 if you really need the power the latter offers.The ECP5 is already closer to a Spartan-6. I've replaced Spartan-6's with ECP5's in a couple projects. All depends on your exact requirements though.It's more or less available now but at non-normal prices. Better than nothing.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 11:33:09 pm
content: Quote from: glenenglish on April 07, 2023, 10:57:09 pmIt is not about the money perse but I'd like to spend it wisely. I just cleared out a whole bunch of very lightly (or not at all) used eval boards for various projects.First of all: the particular project I have in mind doesn't need a very large FPGA. Secondly, I typically don't use an eval board to a large extend so their value for money is very limited for me. Just to twiddle some pins and feed in some signals. Once that works I move on to a prototype PCB quickly to have better control over signal integrity and have all the relevant peripherals on 1 board. So I'll probably be using the eval board for a day to do some measurements and be done with it. I did look at the TI60 225 eval kit (the $360 one) but there is a lot in the box that can go straight into the 'unused parts give-away box'. I simply don't need most of the stuff.Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 07, 2023, 11:18:41 pmLattice is out. Licensing scheme seems to be time limited / subscription only. That doesn't work for the projects I work on. I need to be able to support a project for at least 10 years.The only reason I need the Spartan 6 is for the high speed interfaces (LXT devices) and none the the FPGAs with such interfaces seem to be available anywhere. I might have come up with an alternative solution for those interfaces which also drastically reduces the requirements for the FPGA part.In another design I'm using a Virtex 6 series just for having a whole bunch of high speed interfaces but the FPGA is actually so much oversized that timing can not be met when all the logic is compacted at the middle of the chip. The signals literally take too long to travel over the FPGA fabric.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 01:28:22 am
content: I'm surprised about your interface need. What is so special that it cant be 7 series implemented ?I think you are making an error tieing yourself to 20 year old FPGA technology.Maybe the readers here can offer some alternatives to your special interface needs.I guess if you are a hobbyist and not a commercial developer, then price for tools is important.6 series Spartan sucked. high utilization was hamstrung.Efinix parts are certainly not cheap, but they are fast, and available.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 02:53:25 am
content: If you are using the XC6SLX25T size device, how come you can't use the Artix7 in same size- and they are available, and at better prices than the 6 series. and they have all the transceiver hardware, more of everything......Efinix- Tray of Ti60 in a 225 (0.65mm) package here, if anyone needs a few. They are 0.65mm will be a bit of a pain for routing but easier than a 0.5mm QFN for stenciling.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 04:51:57 am
content: Quote from: glenenglish on April 08, 2023, 01:28:22 am20 years? Not exactly.Quote from: glenenglish on April 08, 2023, 01:28:22 amThe ECP5 has 3.2Gbps transceivers just like the Spartan-6 LXT.The ECP5-5G has 5Gbps transceivers.And while the ECP5-5G requires a subscription license, the ECP5 doesn't. And should do OK here. Maybe it's just the fact Lattice delivers 1-year free licenses so you have to renew them every year? And he's afraid of Lattice disappering leaving everyone in the dark with no usable license? That's what many other FPGA vendors do these days anyway. But, in that case, yes. Good luck.And apparently he doesn't want to deal with Xilinx anymore either, even if it's to use the 7 series.So, good luck.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 09:27:24 am
content: Last time I checked the 7 series parts that have the high speed transceivers wheren't available either. Same for all the other big FPGA manufacturers. The message to take from that is that designing in FPGAs with high speed tranceivers puts you into a niche market that dries up as soon as something bad happens in the world. On top of that I can't ignore that some manufacturers are more prone to supply chain interruptions than others.And no, this isn't a hobby project (this is a weird conclusion to jump to actually). Far from it. Which is why long term component & tool availability are important. But since designing in a new FPGA seems to be inevitable, it is a good time to weigh all options and possibly come up with a new architecture that is even cheaper to produce with parts that are more likely to be available at all times.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 09:46:45 am
content: If you have a good relationship with the rep, you can get the Artix '35 parts. no problems. I can..... There are certain package and chip combinations that are easy to get.I think if you were designing equipment with 6 series, you'd be doing the client no service.But ! this is the Efinix forum, enough !The Transceivers will be along soon. But they're not going to be in low end parts...You'd be better with a 7A35T or the smallest Ultrascale+ AU10P part available now. Wait a bit, the Efinix transceiver parts will be along...glen.Xilinx Alliance Partner.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 10:08:25 pm
content: Contact AVNET. you should be able to buy XC7A35T-1CSG325C or XC7A35T-1FT256I-glen

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 10:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: glenenglish on April 08, 2023, 10:08:25 pmThanks. These could be a good option if my alternative plan fails. The reasons for choosen the Spartan 6 device about 4 years ago (Covid really threw a wrench in this project's progress as well) was 1) to re-use most of an existing design minimising the amount of development work. And 2) not needing part qualification testing (on which I can't eloborate further other than that it involves a crapload of work). But since everything is open, there are many more options to consider. Removing the requirement for having high speed transceivers inside the FPGA could provide a healthy cost savings and a much broader choice for FPGA devices. Another issue is that ISE 14.7 doesn't support the XC7A35T so the build system that currently is created around ISE14.7, needs to be setup again as well.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 10:53:16 pm
content: If you like ISE, suggest running Vivado in all-command line mode / TCL batch. There are lots of examples on how to do this.If you run GUI mode, suggest do not let vivado copy files into project. (check box when adding files)alot of people load files, create projects all in TCL / command line, then do all their runs and post synth analysis in the GUI.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 12:32:04 am
content: To be honest, I'm not a big fan of ISE. As usual for these kinds of GUIs the editor sucks pretty bad IMHO and overall ISE feels a bit clunky. I use ISE for synthesis / P&R, checking timing errors, etc only and for some projects I'm using a 'makefile flow' to build final binaries so I know the settings are exactly what I'm expecting. For editing I'm using Eclipse with a VHDL plugin (called veditor) but it might be a good time to look at some newer VHDL plugins created for VSCode.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 12:33:44 am
content: I use SUBLIME editor for VHDL. and only ever use the Vivado editor for files like the constraints files and inspecting core templates

author: Ling
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 06:33:52 am
content: as AK6DN described, due to the COVID AND KIND of hard / obselete supply infos someone trying to spread on market, some big factroy over ordered what they need. so as u can see many factories are struggling hard to sell these excess, continue to sending out big lists for bidding... like I'd received a XC6SLX25-3CSG324C 9K for half month, factory willing to sell them at the price of 2020 level, asked this long period, the market only willing to bid half cost to try stockso maybe it's also good opportunity for u to find some suitable price & stock if ur company's buyer have good communication with big mall or kind of supplier who deal with lots of OEMs, they always have plenty of excess list can try lucky

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 07:51:02 am
content: People like Spartan 6 because couple of years ago you could have picked XC6SLX25 at $5 no problem, now all of a sudden Xilinx cough AMD is not saying part is EOL but just refusing to manufactureSimilar situation with Broadcom reducing VideoCore 4 supply (used in pis). Meanwhile TSMC sitting on vacant factorieshttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-10/tsmc-sales-miss-for-second-straight-quarter-on-tepid-tech-demand

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 07:22:05 pm
content: The Spartan-6 was great value and very capable even compared to anything newer. Obviously things have completely been shaken ever since the shortage.

author: glenenglish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 08:54:18 pm
content: I always ran out of carry chains/routing with large bit width filters and high utilization. didnt like 6 series.