Review of an Agilent Waveform Generator; the 33522B - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2012, 08:47:22 pm
content: Hi guys,As part of the Element14 roadtests, I managed to get one of the 33522B Arb waveform generators and got a review filmed, so if you're interested,Cheers,Dave

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:15:04 pm
content: I just watched your video review and I am impressed with the 33522B capabilitiesThanks for this review

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 10:25:56 pm
content: It is worth also looking at the other reviews on the Element14 site (the road test reviews) and also the recent reviews on the later 33622A as there are some comparative measurements on things like jitter.I also came across this blog recently that shows measurements of the 33522B at frequencies up to 60MHz:http://gpete-neil.blogspot.co.uk/p/fgawgs.htmlLastly, the Agilent e-bay store currently has both the 33522B and 33522A if you're in the market for one:http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Agilent-Remarketing-Solutions-Store/Generators-/_i.html?_fsub=3420072011&_sid=869664151&_trksid=p4634.m322

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 10:38:14 am
content: jpb,Thanks for the great link to the blog, that was very helpful and detailed.One question:What is the big difference between the 33522A and 33522BIs it significant enough to look only for the "B" version?Thanks for any advise.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 02:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 10, 2014, 10:38:14 amHardware wise there is no difference except that the B version is modular (i.e. designed to allow the upgrade from 20MHz to 30MHz and no-arb to arb versions by simple software keys).see this answer from Agilent on one of their forums:http://www.home.agilent.com/owc_discussions/thread.jspa?messageID=103404The only key difference that I've been able to find is that the B version allows the use of the IQ player but the IQ player is itself software rather than hardware - it seems very expensive (the IQ player) for what it does but Agilent often charge a lot for minor software enhancements. I guess if you need the IQ facility and you're a company it is much cheaper to pay £580+VAT ($1000) to make generating and playing IQ waveforms than it is to have your engineers do it the hard way.Note that in the road test video that started this thread several comments are made about improvements between the B and A series but these are all just firmware improvements and you can probably get them by just using newer firmware on the A series.One thing I'm uncertain of (I'm thinking of getting one of these from e-bay or possibly a Tabor WW1072 instead) is whether or not the latest firmware for the 33522B can be installed on the 33522A, it does appear under the 33522A support page but it only lists the B series in the list of supported instruments.On the web store the B series they have are rather more expensive but they do have the IQ player, and perhaps more importantly are likely to be newer instruments and you'll probably get more if you ever need to sell it on. To my mind though, the IQ player is not worth more than perhaps £100 to me (it is essentially just software and I wouldn't use it much) so the B series would be costing me £300+VAT or more for the same hardware but a bit more newness.Remember the web store takes offers. In the past they have taken $1800 for the 33522A. I offered $1750 a while back on one of a previous batch and they turned that down though they did make a counter offer of $1900. Whether they take lower offers or not is very variable (I've been store watching for quite a while) but as the 33622 has come out I think the 33522 is looking a bit dated in comparison so they may be keener to shift these.If you do make an offer, make it realistic as I think if you go in too low they just reject it and let your subsequent higher offers expire.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 02:54:30 pm
content: jpbThanks for your very helpful information.I asked Agilent about the lowest price they would accept for the 33522B and they came back and said that they will not go below $ 2500.This is the unit with the MEM, IQP and SEC options.It seems to be a fair price.Would be nice, if they would include a BenchLink Waveform Builder Pro for free, but that is probably asking too much.What is also interesting, is that the Square and Pulse signal rise and fall times of the 33522B are listed at 8.4 nsIn comparison, my older 33220A (single channel) has edge times of 5nsMay be it has to do with the single to dual channel differences.I think, I will be ordering the 33522B from Agilent.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 06:37:44 pm
content: That's a good price for the generator, you won't regret it for that. To add to JPBs answer, I've got an A series generator as well and the settings for load impedance, etc are volatile on it whereas on the B series they are remembered, which is very useful.Sounds like you have already, but the longmem option is well worthwhile as 16meg really opens up what you can do with it

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 08:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 10, 2014, 02:54:30 pmThe 335-- and 336-- series are fundamentally different from the earlier generations in that they do a lot of digital preprocessing (the TruForm approach) which involves filtering and then adding interpolating samples before resampling to the correct sample spacing for the fixed frequency output DAC (250MS/s on the 33522).I think this means that their rise time is fixed at 8.4 nsecs (or slower), it doesn't seem to vary. (I think it might be set by the digital filter that is applied prior to interpolation - this filtering avoids any possible issues with aliasing.)While the earlier generations don't have all this preprocessing so the rise time comes down to the analogue bandwidth which may well vary from sample to sample and to ensure the specs they probably set them a little higher than many individual samples will manage. The new digital approach greatly improves jitter and general waveform integrity (low overshoot, phase noise etc) but there is probably some cost in ultimate rise time.Page 9 of the following Agilent white paper shows a block diagram of the TruForm approach which you might find interesting.http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5991-1100EN.pdfThe much more expensive 33622 has rather faster rise times available.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 08:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 10, 2014, 02:54:30 pmThat is consistent with the $1900 counter offer they made to me on a $2199 33522A some time ago, the ratio is the same.The rule seems to be they mark the prices up by 15% on their lowest accept price. My approach is to try and get the equivalent of the VAT back so I tend to offer around 1/1.2 which explains why none of my offers are ever accepted

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 08:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: DaveW on May 11, 2014, 06:37:44 pmThanks for the information.Is this a hardware difference or firmware? (I guess both models have some form of non-volatile memory to keep calibration constants.)As a matter of interest, have you updated your A series model with the latest firmware on Agilent's site?

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2014, 10:18:28 pm
content: Thank you both for the info, this was very interesting to read and study.After reading so much about these generators, I have placed the order with Agilent for the 33522B with all the options.Will be interesting to see how long it takes to come to Germany.It is free shipping from the USA through some internal Agilent shipping system.I will make a comparison to the 33220A, when I get it.Thanks for all your support.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 07:55:53 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on May 11, 2014, 08:33:11 pmGood point, just updated the A series and it now has an option to remember settings. A nice bit of kit, you'll enjoy using it

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 09:41:55 pm
content: Quote from: DaveW on May 12, 2014, 07:55:53 pmThank you for letting us know - it is good to know as it means that if I don't want/need the IQ option I can save a bit of cash by going for an A model from the e-bay store.(I'm still trying to make up my mind between this and a Tabor WW1072 which I was offered at a good discount - though the offer may now have expired because I've taken so long trying to make up my mind between theEase of use, massive memory, waveform accuracy and general flexibility of the Agilentand theHigher frequency bandwidth/faster rise time, true variable clock, extra outputs (up to 100MHz 1Vpp sine and clock) on the Tabor...the decision is driving me mad)

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 11:03:43 pm
content: @DaveWWhat version Firmware did you install on the A version?I saw on the Agilent site, that the newest firmware was only for the B versions@jpbYes, not an easy decision, I know. I was also sleeping over it a few nights. But then, most of my newer equipment is Agilent and in general I am very happy with them. I am very happy, that you pointed me in this direction. Thanks again.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2014, 08:35:18 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 12, 2014, 11:03:43 pm

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2014, 08:46:45 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on May 12, 2014, 11:03:43 pmThe Agilent site is a little confusing. If you go the A series 33522A page and select technical support and choose 332500 firmware it takes you to the same download page as the B series goes to. But once you are there it only lists B series models.But given that DaveW has just uploaded the latest version to his A series there clearly isn't a problem.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2014, 11:04:42 am
content: Quote from: jpb on May 13, 2014, 08:46:45 amI have an older single channel A series and did not trust to update the firmware, because the Agilent website was not clear on this.Since DaveW did it successfully, I will give it a try as well.Thanks DaveW for this great information.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2014, 08:03:57 pm
content: Hello DaveW,Just to let you know, I updated my 33521A with the Firmware Version 3.03 (2014-03-26) and it works perfectly.Although the Agilent website does not list the 33521A as an instrument that is up-datable with this firmware version, it does work without any issues.Actually, after the update an error log was created, but that one was empty.Interestingly, inside the build.xml file that came wit the firmware file, the 33521A is listed.Here is the content of that file:<FwUpdateDefinition version="03.03" xmlns="http://www.agilent.com/Schemas/ScpiDL/2008"><manufacturer>Agilent Technologies, Inc</manufacturer><model>33521A</model><model>33522A</model><model>33509B</model><model>33510B</model><model>33511B</model><model>33512B</model><model>33519B</model><model>33520B</model><model>33521B</model><model>33522B</model><fwversion>03.03</fwversion><description>Agilent 33500 Series Rev A.03.03 NOTE: Front panel may go blank for about 30 seconds on first reboot.</description><notes>Refer to release notes.</notes><date>1/14/2014 11:21:16 AM</date><md5hash>SW1gLhh8dZ5TojPUvxJV3g==</md5hash></FwUpdateDefinition>So far, I can only recommend this update v3.03

author: Sbampato12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2014, 06:41:46 pm
content: I know this topic is a little old, but, this week I've upgraded my 33522A with the new firmware 3.03 and it went OK.The only thing was, as my older firmware was too old, it didn't take the USB version, but the ethernet worked OK.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 01:57:22 pm
content: In the meantime I got a 33522A with all options, including IQ and also updated to v3.03It fixed a few errors and the generator works great now.But it has one problem, that I can not figure out.In sweep mode, the generator is suppose to send out a SYNC signal at the end or beginning of every sweep.But it does not send out anything on the sync connector.The funny thing is, that my 33521A and my older Agilent generators all send out a sync signal.Hmm ... may be an oversight of the firmware?Or user error ...?

author: Sbampato12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2014, 07:39:00 pm
content: I could try to see the sync signal on my, this next week.After that, I will post the results here.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2014, 09:56:46 am
content: Quote from: Sbampato12 on December 13, 2014, 07:39:00 pmWould be great, if you could test the sync output on your 33522A.Thanks for that.My Agilent 33220A also sends out the sync perfectly.Also interesting, the older 33220A has a pulse rise time of 5 nsThe newer and much more expensive 33522A only goes down to 8.7 ns edge time.

author: Sbampato12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 01:25:51 pm
content: A little late, more than a week I've mentioned before (), but I've finally got the results...Mine 33522A send output SYNC alright.I've tested with the channel 1 and 2.In the attached image, shows a very narrow SYNC signal on the SYNC output (200 us).I was generating a sine wave, with burst from 100Hz to 1kH, 3.5V peak to peak.There is a little configurations you may need to change (or set) to get this output.Right now I need to exit, but in a few hours I can show what you could try to do to get the SYNC output to work.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 06:16:58 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on December 14, 2014, 09:56:46 amI think this is down to the digital resampling/filtering used to reduce the jitter. The older models also use different methods for pulses (if you look at the various manuals you can find details) - some of them use a comparator combined with either a sine curve or a distorted sine curve but this leads to a lot of jitter in comparison to the 33522 series.The 33622 (and the rest of the series) has much faster rise times but it costs a lot more.I've now bought myself (as of a few months ago) an 33522A from the Agilent (now Keysight) web store. Unfortunately I've not had any time to play with it other than upgrading the firmware which went ok.I'll see if I can check my sync output.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 06:46:45 pm
content: My sync seems to work ok on sweep - as I've not really used it at all it took a bit of random fiddling around (I didn't do anything so rash as look at the manual - just the normal random trial and error)Screen shot attached.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 06:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on December 12, 2014, 01:57:22 pmI thought the IQ option was only available on the B series rather than the A series e.g. on the 33522B.Keysight/Agilent were selling 33522Bs with IQ and 33522As without IQ but at a much lower price when I bought mine hence I went for the 33522A.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 08:22:52 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on January 02, 2015, 06:56:18 pmYes, sorry, that was a bad typo!The new one I got was the Agilent 33522B (see picture)Just right now, I tried again and I am not getting a Sync out for each sweep.In the meantime I sent detailed setup information to Keysight and they recommended to wait for the next firmware update.Well, I do not need this function right now on the 33522B, since I still have the older 33220A for that bench setup and it works perfectly.See picture from the sync signal of the 33220AThanks for checking on your 33522A for the pulse sync signal.But even that looks different than on the 33220A, which sets the sync level high right after the start of the sweep, with a 50% duty cycle during the sweep.

author: Sbampato12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 09:23:21 pm
content: As you have the 2 channels version, you need to check if the SYNC is not configured for the other channel.I'm not saying that you didn't configured wrong, but worth to check: (I had issues trying to get the sync of the channel 2, until I found this)Once you are on the channel that you selected the sweep, push theTriggerbutton.The last three soft buttons are: Sync (On Off), Sync Src (CH1 CH2) and Sync Setup.Make sure you have Sync turned On, Select the source to your channel and pres Sync Setup.On Sync Setup you get the Polarity and Mode buttons.The mode let you choose between 3 options:Normal (will put a signal of 200us on the start of the sweep)Carrier (Carrier as the name, put a square signal with the frequency changing as the sweep change)Marker (Let you choose when the signal change. On the start you get one edge, and select wich freq you get the other edge of the SYNC signal)The images shows Carrier, Marker and Normal modes of the Sync.

author: kmel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2015, 02:54:54 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on January 02, 2015, 08:22:52 pm@HighVoltage - Tried it on my Agilent 33522B with firmware 2.09-1.19-2.00-52-00, not updated yet.There is a negative sync impulse of 200µs every sweep.