Digital oscilloscope as a film prop - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 09:48:36 am
content: Hi allI hire out all sorts of electronic film props to the film/movie industry. One fairly frequent requirement is to dress an electronics laboratory film set which I have plenty of experience of having spent most of my working life in such places. Film makers always like "one of those boxes with a green wavy line" as they're very visual. I have various elderly analogue scopes but they're becoming difficult to keep going and of course a monochrome screen no longer looks as hi-tech as the film makers wish. So the time has come to buy at least one modern looking digital scope. Performance, bandwidth, fancy features like FFT etc are not relevant at all as it just needs to look modern with plenty of techie looking front panel detail. As long as it can display waveforms from a connected func gen, noise gen, talky radio station signal or lissajous figures etc then that's normally good enough. I've been looking at the Hantek DSO5072P because it's about the cheapest and appears to have a nice large screen. One absolutely vital requirement though that I've been unable to find out from the blurb, is that it must be possible to switch the device on at the wall and it'll power on with no user interaction so a nice old fashioned mechanically latching power switch is needed, not a soft touch switch that must be pressed each time power has been lost. Our equipment is normally unattended and people on film sets just can't be trusted to find the power switch in a sea of other buttons.Another desirable feature would be some form of panel lock to disable the controls. Lurking hidden on many film sets are phantom knob twiddlers who think they know what they're doing but in an instant manage to entirely lose the trace that I've carefully set up. I then receive a frantic phone call from someone completely technically illiterate who I then have to patiently talk through restoring the trace before filming can begin. This is stress I could do without in my life. I'm assuming most of these scopes can be set to automatically restore previously saved settings?So never having used a Hantek myself, can someone who has such experience confirm that this will fit the bill or suggest any other budget scope that would?Thanks very much for reading.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 10:05:35 am
content: I'm fairly sure it has a mechanical switch. I'm sure you can find plenty of youtube review videos and see.There's no defense against the knob twiddlers. DSOs will power on with the previous settings but there's no way to stop people twiddling.I don't know about the Hantek but most DSOs allow you to load/save the current settings on a USB stick or in internal memory. This is a quick way to restore them (if you can get somebody to press the right buttons and select the file). Read the Hantek manual and see.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 10:30:47 am
content: Maybe you could use a DSO with a network interface (or USB, but that might not reach far enough) so that you could set it up it remotely? Most DSOs lock out the front panel controls if they are being remote controlled.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 10:49:54 am
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 08, 2016, 09:48:36 amI can't find a mechanical switch on the Hantek, and boththeir websiteand one review on Youtube show it is a soft button.I personally know that hard clunking buttons on color oscilloscopes can be found in the TDS3000 series of Tek scopes (I use one at work), but at least in this model the screen is too dim and they are expensive. You can try theirTBS1000B series, which has a larger screen and has the clunking switch at the top. They can be had for around US$500.00.TheRigol DS1052Ecan also be had on the dime (around US$300.00) and features a clunking switch. Its screen is smaller, though.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 11:06:19 am
content: You are looking at this all wrong. Using new technology costs more.Of course you need to be on the set to make sure the equipment behaves correctly. "Electronic prop wrangler". They get all the right squiggly waveforms, you get your name in the credits and more money.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 11:52:35 am
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 08, 2016, 09:48:36 amPretty much all cheap scopes look exactly that - cheap.Of course It depends on your customers but if that's not just for some low-budget indy films then I'd consider working with a big manufacturer like LeCroy or Keysight who'd probably love to get its equipment (and brand name!) on screen and very likely would provide you with propups for free. Not just scopes but probes and some demo PCBs which generate some nice looking signals.And really, something like that:looks a lot better than that:Doesn't it?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:04:15 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 08, 2016, 11:52:35 amEDIT:In principle it is a good idea, and in some cases, could be done. But .............My guess would be that, it would be a BAD idea. Because my understanding is that on-screen branding, has complicated licensing requirements, and people making films and TV programs, don't want to get into that sort of mess/situation.E.g. Some TV channels/countries ban on screen product brand placements. The UK certainly did, and still does in many cases. If there are such programs, they need to make it clear at the beginning of the program by showing in the UK, a (P) or similar symbol, for PRODUCT placement.There are also many other contractual and licensing requirements, across all the different countries involved.tl;drBest to avoid showing on-screen filmed BRANDED items, on purpose. It causes many problems. UNLESS that is how your TV/films are being funded.But I am NOT an expert on this, and the OP probably knows best.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:04:15 pmI find it hard to believe that (eg) Apple pays for every single Apple laptop that appears on TV.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:17:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:11:53 pmEDIT:I think the following link explains the situation as regards Apple, which seems to be they DON'T pay for the item to be shown/placed, but DO supply it for free.http://www.minyanville.com/sectors/technology/articles/Has-Apple-Fallen-Out-of-Favor/2/8/2013/id/47976It is a very complicated subject area, and I only have a partial novice, understanding about it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placementWhat I don't really understand about it is. For a program to formally grab an item (e.g. An Apple computer), and spend a minute within a film or TV program, talking about how good it is, is considered product placement.Yet the same Apple computer, sitting peacefully in the corner of a film, is not necessarily product placement (but it might be).Some Films/TV programs, seem to cover/hide the brand names of things on purpose, other don't. So I find the whole situation rather confusing.tl;drI'll leave it to people who properly understand what product placement is.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12593061Quote

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:17:06 pmI always imagined that worked like this:a) Agent goes to (eg.) Apple asking for money for product placement in a movie.b) Apple says "no".c) Producer says "fine" and tapes over the logos just to annoy Apple, hoping they might pay next time around.ie. It's not a legal issue, it's just people making money.

author: joseph nicholas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:42:42 pm
content: Knowing that certain objects are constantly used as plot pivots or focus points exacerbates this. For example, cameras appear more often and the company logos are prominently displayed during close ups. The size of these company names to total object is disproportional. Something like a computer relies on you knowing the Apple logo represents that company. My guess would be that a relatively small company like Nikon would use this to their advantage to allow there products to be shown free.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:45:16 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:04:15 pmWhat 'mess'? There are all kinds of products in films and movies from the whole Apple product range to James Bond presenting the latest Sony cell phone.In fact, product placement is abundant. Because there isn't a 'mess'.QuoteLike in many things, that is a UK speciality, and as you said the original prohibition is gone. Wikipedia says:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_placement#Legal_considerations"A placement must be "editorially justified" and not place "undue prominence" on the product."Which shouldn't be a problem for a scope used as a movie prop in a scene depicting an EE lab.It's not like the scope would appear on a faimily's dining table with the camera spending 3 minutes on a close-up of the brand name tagQuoteNo, there aren't. Many people just assume that this is the case but in most cases (especially when it comes to physical items) there's absolutely nothing to "license". The only issue that could arise is with the brand name (trademarks) and that is hardly a problem for depicting real brands in fictious works of arts. Even less so when the actual trademark owner is eager to get his stuff on the screen.It's a bit more complex with non-physical stuff (i.e. songs, which actually involves licensing) or stuff which involves multiple right-holders, but that isn't relevant for a scope as movie prop.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:29:19 pmI think it's for BOTH reasons. Because some countries might still be very fussy as regards product placements. The UK certainly use to be, and probably still is to an extent (I'm NOT very familiar with the rules, so not fully sure).Back on topicMaking an oscilloscope NOT react to the switches and knobs on it is not that easy. If you opened it and disconnected the keyboard connector(s), it might detect that as a fault, and refuse to boot up and pass the self checks (I'm not sure if they try and detect that or not).If you are into electronics, you could defeat a soft power on button with a relay and/or transistor with a NE555 timer circuit or something, connected to the soft power switch. So that your electronics fix, makes it get a power on press, 5 or 10 seconds, after power is applied. But booting into the right initial screen(s), is not so easy either.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:50:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 08, 2016, 12:45:16 pmThe James Bond franchise can (and does!) ask for money for just about everything that appears in the movie. That's the advantage of being famous.Sometimes they even go against the spirit of James Bond, eg. when BMW had the "car" franchise and James drove around in boring BMWs for a few movies.If you're a small fish? Not so much. I'd tape over logos, too.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:45:46 pmMaybe it's better to build prop oscilloscopes. Buy some broken/for parts oscilloscopes from eBay, and replace the screen. Install a screen connected to a Raspberry Pi or something, and just have them play a video of an oscilloscope screen or something like that.It would make it reproducible

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 08, 2016, 12:45:16 pmI am both a novice with product placement understand and living in a country (UK), with a probably rare TV channel (still very popular), in the UK, called the BBC. They raise money by yearly TV licence fees (£145.50 / year), and absolutely BAN any kind of advertising on the channel. Absolutely no adverts, at all, ever (ignoring adverts for other BBC programs and charities, news items).They have very strict rules, but I completely agree, that it might be relatively unique to us, who live in the UK.If we want to discuss this any further, we should probably start a new thread, as it is getting unfair to the OP.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 08, 2016, 12:52:14 pmThat is a good idea. It could then go through various electronics waveform screen shots.An alternative, would be to connect a few of the buttons to an MCU, and program a button sequence (such as (hypothetically), wait 7 seconds after initial power up, then "press" soft power on button, wait 5 seconds, then "press" Recall, user settings #1. Then the scope will display something nice, in my hypothetical example).But I don't think the OP has the resources to pay for this to be done by someone, and they may not know how to do this themselves and/or not want to spend the time to do it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 12:58:53 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:54:16 pmYou misspelled "worlds greatest".Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:54:16 pmOTOH they don't seem to put tape over logos or blur them out when products naturally appear on screen like (eg.) The Americans do.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:01:44 pm
content: I've supplied props for TV before now (and had a credit too.)TV stations at least are usually fairly careful about showing brands (especially in the case of one Zenith PC case I supplied, they set it on fire)Definitely consider approaching the PR/Marketing departments of a few manufacturers, it'll cost little to do and might net a good haul of tech.But, I digress, if I were supplying props I'd be considering 'scope front panels with a small TFT monitor fitted that displays whatever computer generated technical image the producer liked best.As someone else mentioned if real test gear is used then it's worth considering something with GPIB as I believe a lot of the Agilent 9and I would imagine many more) products will lock out front panel controls when under remote control. It should be possible to use something like the Arduino GPIB to lock up the controls

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:58:53 pmI think the top gear presenters, on one of the top gear programs, explained how fussy the rules on showing brands were with the BBC (if I remember correctly). I think they then made a lot of fun of the rules, in a rather funny way.I guess the OP needs to tell us, about branding and product placement, and if that is a good idea or not.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:07:41 pm
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 08, 2016, 09:48:36 amFinally, a valid use for the scopes 'auto' button.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:09:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:50:07 pmYes, because they can get away with it (i.e. companies are willing to pay for their stuff being shown in a JB movie). If your movie is a big budget production then yes you can charge manufacturers for the privilege, but if this was what the OP was doing then he'd hardly be here and asking for a scruffy Hantek scope.Also, the production company wanting to be paid to place a manufacturer's products has nothing to do with the complexity (or not) of a manufacturer providing products for free.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:11:58 pm
content: Can we move discussion of "Product Placement" somewhere else, please.The important thing about the OP's objective here is - aside from the obvious visual appeal in the movie - is that the whole setup is a 'turnkey' solution.Turn on one switch - and all the tech powers up and enters the required functional configuration without any further effort. The Hantek DSO5072P appears to do this:https://youtu.be/2-9rQvbCVis?t=572(I had this brief for the design of a sound reinforcement system that was used regularly by non technical people. The caretaker was shown how to plug in the microphones and then there was one power switch. This powered up everything - the mixer, EQ, compressor/limiter and power amps. I did have one advantage, though .... all the equipment was under lock and key, so nobodycouldfiddle with any knobs.)

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:14:43 pm
content: Another idea, is have any scopes got a demo button mode, or board which locks it into a demo mode ?I found this one, but know nothing about it. It is for Rigol scopes, I think.http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/DS6000DemoBoard_UserGuide_EN.pdf

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:17:27 pm
content: As for the front panel looking a little underwhelming - I'm sure you could find an artistic talent somewhere that could fill some of the plain space with more interesting graphics.Maybe stick on some EL strips or throw in a few flashing LEDs.We could always start a thread called "Pimp My Scope"

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:54:16 pmFunny, as I'm living on the same Island, and I'm very familiar with the special traits of its society.QuoteActually, that's not unique, it has been this way in many countries, and still is in some (i.e. German public television had no commerials, but that got relaxed later on to some extend).But what you ignore here is that showing a product isn't necessarily advertising. Showing a real product in a fictional scene is fine (even in the UK, and yes, even for the BBC!) when the product is authentic in its environment. It only becomes advertisement if the product is placed there for the product's sake and not because of the story.Your part about the BBC not permitted to produce commercials (it does advertise its own program, though) is irrelevant as even in BBC programs you'll see plenty of branded products in and out. And it would be silly if that wasn't the case.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:22:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:29:19 pmthis happens with musical instruments too.well.. only for keyboards actually.you are a musician with some following that uses a 3-5k instrument -or several- on stage. you ask to be an endorses for X brand because you "advertise" for them in exchange for being paid to use or be given instruments for free.Brand X says "no".on every performance you farefully tape out the brandThis also applies for product placement bullshit: in tv shows every hint of a brand in instruments and amplifiers is taped on

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 08, 2016, 12:52:14 pmDefinitely a sensible and cheap idea! In fact you could even use some of the buttons on the front to give the film director some options as to which wiggling lines pattern he/she prefers best.....

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:24:06 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 08, 2016, 01:11:58 pmI agree, so I'm NOT replying to any more "Product placement" replies in this thread. If you want replies, please start a thread, and I can then reply.But I am still guilty, as I seemed to start the discussion in the first place.EDIT: Done, new thread is here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/product-placement-this-thread-was-made-to-save-another-thread-going-off-topic/

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:28:41 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on September 08, 2016, 01:01:44 pmSome manufacturers don't like their gear being seen in what they consider 'negative context', i.e. destruction scenes (real or fake). Others are more relaxed.QuoteWell, you could probably just buy a broken scope or even just a front panel on ebay and use that to build you some prop.QuoteMost gear that can be remote controlled, no matter if GPIB or something else, can lock out the front panel, but there's usually a button or softkey which brings the scope out of "remote" mode back to "local" mode.However, on a Windows scope (like the ones on the pictures I posted) you could just disable the port for the front panel in Device Manager. Also, they can be set to power on when they get connected to mains, so there's no hard mains switch required.Quote from: Brumby on September 08, 2016, 01:11:58 pmFine by me, although this is actually very much related to the OP's question.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 08, 2016, 01:28:41 pmNo, it's not. The OP was clearly limiting their question to a technical issue as a prop master.Certainly there are incidental aspects that could precipitate from such a topic - but they are a digression and do not help the OP on the issue presented.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 01:53:31 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 08, 2016, 01:50:30 pmI agree.New product placement thread started, and I've put a reply in it, forWuerstchenhund.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/product-placement-this-thread-was-made-to-save-another-thread-going-off-topic/

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 02:43:56 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 08, 2016, 12:52:14 pm

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 02:51:27 pm
content: Regardless of which scope is shown with the label obscured, the experts in the field will be able to tell you the brand and probably date of manufacture.Given that, I wonder if truly low end stuff is the way to go. A Rigol DS1054Z? In a lab? Seriously? Keysight, older Agilent, even older Tektronix analog scopes, sure. 1054Z? Never going to happen.Every decent movie has a car chase. The make and model of the cars is pretty well known, even on an island. In the US, there money changing hands. Look at Hawaii 5-0 and all the Chevys.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:00:55 pm
content: You can also make a Frankenstein oscilloscope. Buy a cheap one (like a Rigol) or even one of those really bargain kits and fit it inside a more expensive looking oscilloscope case. Use the "auto" button and feed it some dialog audio if you want it to somewhat match (for example) the conversation being overheard by the guys in the Black Van™.Absolute accuracy is not necessary (although Wuerstchenhund would suffer a stroke if a Rigol was placed in a particle physics setup instead of a proper LeCroy!) but don't do what I saw in a Spanish (by the way, disgusting) series: "El Barco". After months bragging about the accuracy of the props, the old sailship, etc, the captain called Mayday with a familiar piece of apparatus to all of us: a bench multimeter. You could even read "DIGITAL MULTIMETER" on it in case you hadn't already noticed!I forgot, if taking the route of the Raspberry Pi and screen module you don't even need to program. You can use a gnuplot or Mathematica (*) script to generate pretty waveforms.(*) There's a free version of Mathematica bundled with the Raspberry Pi operating system, Raspbian, but you should check with Wolfram Research wether they would consider this "commercial use" or they really won't care as you are not really using the program for its purpose.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:22:31 pm
content: Thanks for all the responses so far.Firstly it needs to be stated that I'm just a lowly uncredited prop supplier. I don't get to make any decisions about product placement. That's entirely up to the production company bean counters and the like. Generally it's only applicable to big budget movies whereas our props must be suitable for everything from low budget TV programs through jokey adverts to mega budget movies.I think it's unlikely that PP would ever be used for such technical gear anyway compared to the normal consumer tat such as phones, cars, cameras etc. Only about 5% or so of the audience may even know what an oscilloscope is and maybe only .01% would ever consider buying one during their lives. So the number who would see a film and straightaway come out thinking "must go and buy that amazing looking Tek scope" is therefore miniscule.It's pretty much the norm for someone on set to check all the equipment and stick tape over every visible manufacturer's name they can find.Yes I have to admit the Le Croy kit looks really beautiful but I haven't even bothered looking up the prices. The equipment has a hard life and those on the film set don't respect it at all so all that beauty would be scuffed and scraped after a few hires. Far too often when the set is struck they'll quickly throw everything into the box with the probes and other connectors still attached so they get snapped off or the BNC sockets are bent or worst of all, the attenuator knobs are sheered right off. I wish I could always be on set to assemble, instruct, supervise and dismantle everything myself but I wouldn't have the time and the producers are rarely prepared to budget for that extra expense.I have already thought of TFT screens behind dummy front panels but it's a lot of work, particularly fiddly mechanical which is the bit I hate doing most. Also it would likely need doing in a different way for each bit of kit (reinventing the wheel) unless I was fortunate enough to acquire a job lot of identical scopes for a bargain price which is hard to do.I'd also thought of a timer fitted across any soft switch but the idea of hacking into a brand new scope makes me whince a little and surely would void the warranty. I would though be prepared to do this as it's preferable to watching the film or program months later, seeing the blank scope screen & saying "Doh! They never even switched it on". Fascinating as all the PP discussion is, I have to point out that so far no one has replied with a definite yes/no as to whether the Hantex has a hard or soft switch. From the best photos I can find, it's looking suspiciously soft.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on September 08, 2016, 02:51:27 pmTHISexactly!A low end scope simply doesn't look the part, and I doubt a cheapish looking (even for the average consumer) scope with tiny screen is cutting it unless the scene shows engineers being broke. And as rstofer says, to anyone who ever saw the inside of a real lab seeing a Hantek or Rigol in a scene depicting a professional lab is probably cringe-worthy at best.If the budget is tight and sponsoring isn't an option for some reason then I'd scour the 2nd hand market for some old big brand digital scopes. A few hundred bucks can buy you a lot there, and unlike the Hantek/Rigol solution doesn't immediately scream "cheap"The last option would be to just rent a proper looking scope from a lab or a rental provider.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 08, 2016, 03:22:31 pmHere you have lots of sexy looking potential dummy front panels(Search for lecroy for parts, for instance)http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlecroy+for+parts.TRS0&_nkw=lecroy+for+parts&_sacat=0

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:36:13 pm
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 08, 2016, 03:22:31 pmI saw a youtube video where there was a definite click but that doesn't mean much. It might be an internal relay.It certainly doesn't look as if the button goes in and stays in then pops out again when you switch it off.You might be asking in the wrong place. Nobody around here would be seen dead with a Hantek.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:39:31 pm
content: You could probably approach one of the scope makers and offer their scope a product placement too. I am sure some would love to have that kind of exposure. If the cost is an issue.I was watching The Wire recently and noticed a lot of shots of spectrum analyzers.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 03:47:29 pm
content: Well...my most important recommendation would be to stay away from modern units as they, um, look unimpressive. I would go either for a TEK TDSxxx or a LeCroy LC or 93 series unit - both can look pretty "nasty". Or, a DS-6121A...the futuristic front panel is fun.As for the knob twiddlers: IMHO, the only way to solve this is GPIB remoting. I know that some older Iwatsu scopes go "puber" when taking GPIB commands, for example...

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:07:19 pm
content: If it was me with this problem. I would probably buy a very cheap scope (99%+ of the audience would never notice it is out of place in a professional lab), brand new or a cheap one on ebay in clean condition, and shown to show pictures on the screen.Then modify the soft on/off button, to switch on automatically, and try to create a simple button sequence or freq generator, to show something on the screen after it turns on.E.g. Wire/cheap probe between probe cal and input(s), with soft turn on button and auto buttons, pressed via a 556 timer, on after 5 sec and autoset after 15 sec or something.Or when buying an older (modern looking) cheap scope on ebay, find one with a physical/real on off button.I can't see why you are bothered by losing the guarantee, because by the sound of it, it will get so roughly treated during filming and transportation etc, it will soon be in too bad a shape to easily claim under the guarantee.Cheap ebay low frequency scopes, but made by quality manufacture's, may be more physically robust than cheap brand name ones. But I'm speculating here, and could be wrong.Also steer clear of any with auto power off (but you might be able to disable it in the menus), which I have read about.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:28:51 pm
content: I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of films and prime-time TV series that did NOT have cringe-worthy "set dressing" in any kind of scientific/technical scene. Except, of course, for the ones actually shot on-location in a REAL laboratory, control-room, or whatever. Chemists likely have similar complaints to ours. I doubt very much that any of the "chemistry lab" scenes in typical productions has any practical resemblance to the real thing.If I still lived in the LA area I would assemble a rental fleet of non-functional test gear which had been gutted but the front-panels preserved, and displays (CRTs, meters, lights) simulated with simple microcontrollers and LCD screens requiring zero manipulation from the production crew. There are rental houses in that town who specialize in scientific gear for props and set dressing. I have a 2 or 3 of old Tek scopes that would be prime candidates for turning into functional-looking props.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 04:29:40 pm
content: I'd second a used scope off of eBay or similar. An old Tektronix 7000 series mainframe packed with plugins still looks "high tech" to most folks, and can be had for less than the shipping costs in some cases.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 09:42:20 am
content: When I was contacted "out of the blue" by a set artist via my website for exactly the subject of this thread I provided a demo scope, in fact a SDS2304 that with its large colour display was just what they were looking for.A couple of nice bright traces fed from the same sine wave from its internal AWG but not triggered properly and nicely scrolling across the display had them hooked.I would imagine most distributors like myself would also jump at the opportunity to have their "wares" on film: free advertising.Not only did I end up "hiring" a DSO to them but also all manner of "lab" props, component cabinets, PSU's, AWG's etc.50 km round trip and it was a fair day's labor for my trouble.Plus the chance to sit in on some of the filming, very interesting it was.And it was also when I first met our now somewhat famous forum memberDubbie(Rigol giveaway)

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 11:03:28 am
content: One thing I would keep in mind looking for a scope to be used as a film prop would be how its LCD screen interacts with video cameras' sensors. You wouldn't want any nasty flickering or other visual glitches resulting from scan techniques/frequencies of both messing with each other. Unless we're talking classic film cameras only, of course.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 11:09:08 am
content: Quote from: Zbig on September 09, 2016, 11:03:28 amGood point but AFAIK mostly broadcast quality units are used these days. There were no such issues mentioned when I was involved on the set.

author: andy2000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 01:54:23 pm
content: Older Tektronix logic analyzers (like the TLA600 series) have big color screens and cost very little on ebay. They run Windows, so you could simply remove the logic analyzer software and play a video of what ever graphics you need on a loop. Since they're based on a normal PIII PC, there's an option in BIOS to have it power on automatically when AC power is restored.Older Windows based scopes like the TDS5000 series would also work. One that powers up, but fails the self test shouldn't cost too much.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:04:18 pm
content: That sounds like the best suggestion yet, andy2000.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:15:01 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on September 08, 2016, 04:28:51 pmThis is just so true. I'm constantly cringing at the clueless arty person's idea of science & technology depicted in films. For the significant percentage of the population that does have a clue, this is downright insulting. Two production buyers were in recently choosing items for a modern electronics lab. So what did they initially choose? 1980s hi-fi separates and a block of audio studio 19" panels containing CD players. I had to intervene & advise them on what else would be more realistic. At first they didn't appreciate me putting my oar in but I did manage to persuade them in the end. Once on set, I pushed their chosen items hopefully out of camera shot & brought my real world items to the front.That said, some buyers did bring along a real industrial chemist to help them choose glassware for a drugs lab recently. Quite impressive and yet some hopelessly obsolete glassware was still chosen.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on September 08, 2016, 03:31:13 pmThanks but most of what comes up for me are old monochrome tubed equipment. The ones with flat screens are still unaffordable.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on September 08, 2016, 12:57:43 pmI would indeed like to be able to do that but it's down to there not being enough hours in the day. Also I do tend to cling onto the idea of real working oscilloscopes. Most of the time they're used for displaying wiggly lines in the background but sometimes an actor will be using it for its proper purpose of stabbing a probe around a circuit board with alternating expressions of puzzlement & delight. When I tell the production buyers this is how they should be used, they're always amazed!

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on September 08, 2016, 03:24:09 pmA low end modern scope is still going to look better than an old scope. The presence of different coloured traces & detailed text on the screen makes a big difference. Another good reason for preferring modern TFT ones to old but quality tubed ones is that they're much shallower & lighter. Set builders rarely understand how deep an EE's bench needs to be so frequently items are rejected once on set as they overhang the bench front. And then there's the weight issue. Often old scopes are destroyed by their own weight when the front panel is crashed while being carried carelessly through a door way for instance. I have a nice Tek 7000 series which has been completely ruined by all the attenuator & timebase knobs being bent through 90 degrees in such a way.On ebay here in the UK there are very few used digital scopes ever showing. One old 25MHz sold recently for over £100 & in all likelihood the cold cathode backlight for the TFT will be unusably dim.I think it's very rare for production companies to hire real gear from the likes of Livingstone Hire etc. The buyer for the most recently released Bond movie told me that the director had decided to have all the electronics laboratory instruments made from scratch by a team of prop makers. I whinced when I heard this & haven't seen this film yet as I feel it'd be just too painful to watch! Can anyone who's seen it comment? They could have hired some really tasty modern gear from Livingstone, had one of their techs on set to install & supervise it & it would be cheaper.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 04:04:49 pm
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 09, 2016, 03:35:48 pmThe Siglent SDS1052DL, about £195, seems to have a real solid on/off switch, but I'm NOT 100% sure (ideally you need to check, e.g. by asking the seller, by email). But it does look like one, on the very top, left hand side.If that is the case, your only instructions to the film crew, may only be press the "AutoSet/AUTO" button, if someone messes it up.Then plug some kind of demo signal board into it, such as a cheap ebay signal generator, or something, those small PCB afairs, for about £20 or so. To give it some pretty real life pictures.They can then probe about for real if wanted, as it will still work.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Siglent-SDS1052DL-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-7-LCD-50MHZ-500MSa-s-32Kpts-UK-/222241837316?hash=item33bea55104:g:-wAAAOSwZVlXwTz1

author: SaabFAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 04:20:17 pm
content: I think, the idea with the Logic Analyzer running Windows is the best so far.There's just a few buttons on the front and no BNC-Connectors that can be bent, just the ribbon-connectors for the cables.Make a few videos of the device that shows different signals and also tell production companies that they can put their custom stuff on it to show whatever they want.That's probably the best solution money can buy.The Alternative would be to build some custom front-panel out of metal and put a TFT-Screen in there to play video. I'm guessing that that would cost less than 500€ and is durable enough to survive the rough handling on set.

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 05:27:55 pm
content: I know this may get very negative feelings from most of you (it is abuse after all),But if you do the thing with a 555 timer or Arduino, etc, to control the button contacts,then after setting the thing, and saving as a default or auto, pull off all the knobs, squirt some glue in there, and put all the knobs back on.No more finger Trouble (Hopefully the software doesn't glitch out and forget its settings)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 05:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: SaabFAN on September 09, 2016, 04:20:17 pmOr any Windows based scope or gut it and put a readily made video player inside (put a USB stick in the rear and it will play the video from it). Actually you could go as far by replacing all the knobs with solid steel ones and powder coat them for durability. IOW: turn a scope in a prop.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2016, 01:15:05 am
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 09, 2016, 03:56:07 pmYou've got so many requirements you aren't going to find anything to match it, there have been some great suggestions in here but consider that you might have to build something. A late 80's to early 2000's front panel from a scope or spectrum analyser could be found for a few hundred which gets you the look and knobs (screw them through metal plate from behind the panel so they can stand abuse), then get the cheapest tablet thing you can find with a matching screen size (even second hand apple iPads are cheap enough to use as video screens) and pop them all together inside a conveniently sized white box possibly with a handle or two on it. Load suitable video on the tablet and you've got a generic electronic thingo which can be used for many different props in different settings radar, radio, spectrum analyser, scope, etc etc.

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2016, 06:09:10 am
content: Or a cyanogen modded Nook Color

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2016, 09:39:41 am
content: Quote from: kolbep on September 09, 2016, 05:27:55 pmMany front panels connect to the rest of the scope via a ribbon cable. Just disconnecting the ground would disable the controls.By the sounds of it an old windows instrument set to boot on power being restored and with a looped video set to run in the start up folder is the simplest.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2016, 04:37:44 am
content: Late to the thread, but we do loan scopes and other equipment out to movie people for films. Most notably, Tony Stark apparently likes Agilent/Keysight equipment on the flying lab ship thingy. I just got one of my scopes back from a new Wahlberg movie, too. Generally directors don't really want labels showing, as it can be a distraction.http://www.measurementest.com/2012/04/marvels-avengers-movie-test-and.htmlOP, if studios want equipment for a shoot, we have a contact person for that who's responsible for all the paperwork, etc. PM me and we can talk if you'd like. Our scopes do have a physical switch that will have the scope boot up automatically when it's connected to power.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2016, 08:14:11 am
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on September 12, 2016, 04:37:44 amThanks for the offer but we're in different countries. You guys generally operate on a wholly different scale to us here in the UK. I've browsed the websites of just a few US prop houses & the sheer volume of stuiff they have is extraordinary. Like 400 server cabinets & vast amounts of other electronics.

author: e-doc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2016, 01:24:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 08, 2016, 12:11:53 pmI find it hard to believe that Apple pays... taxes, they should pay.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2016, 03:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: Sid Nails on September 12, 2016, 08:14:11 amThat shouldn't matter much, as I'm sure Keysight could arrange something through its UK subsidiary.Mfgr sponsoring is, in my opinion, the best and least stressful option.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2016, 07:51:34 pm
content: I have a Hantek MSO5102D. Despite the numbering difference, it's almost identical to the 5072P. It definitely does have a solid mechanical switch and will turn on normally from the mains supply. The P line ARE cost-reduced versions but that's mostly by putting small memory depths in them - i doubt they would have changed the power supply switch.Some other versions in the range (with 'V' suffix) can play pre-recorded videos. They're normally held on an internal SD card but might also play them from the front socket.One note on product placement - most digital scopes waste a bit of space on an onscreen logo. It's usually in a fixed location but it's a bit more annoying to cover with tape. They may also have a huge logo on boot-up, but there's a hack to replace the Hantek one with your own choice.

author: Sid Nails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 13, 2016, 12:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: artag on September 12, 2016, 07:51:34 pmThanks so much. And can it automatically restore previously saved attenuator, timebase & trigger etc settings?

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2016, 01:35:43 am
content: There're big gaps between people who know tech and those who dont. So it depends on the audience for your movie. Its best to use products people rarely know about for props. Less people know about agilent or rohde and shwartz or even rigol than they do of apple. I also often see lenovo thinkpads used quite a lot. They are reliable laptops and less people know about them than other laptops around.The way the props work are in 2 ways, decoration and active props. Decoration props are static and you can use broken or not working devices for it (perhaps as long as theres a screen or some blinky LED lights). A datacenter of blinky LED lights is considered techy to many.active props need to be doing something. In some cases the prop is actually built for the scene and takes part in the scene (like the car for batman). In other cases it will just be part of the background. These would be doing something and require people with the skill in the respective area to set up.In order to obtain the props its often best to negotiate a loan where you are sent the product temporarily and have to give it back when done. The only cost involve is the insurance, other than that you really dont pay a thing. Top gear is a big example of this as the cars are loaned to them and the top gear team only pays insurance. Other ways you can do is buy them 2nd hand or find bargains. Even if it is partially working or doesnt it can be a bargain prop. Other things you can do is use counterfeits which is very popular in movies involving destruction of cars. Quite often if an expensive looking car is wrecked in a series/movie it will be a counterfeit version of the real thing. If you can get them to give you the product for free that would be better.In big budget films, the mistake often done is buying the actual prop and demanding money for the brand being on film and covering it when they refuse to pay. Infact refusing to pay is the right thing to do even if the brand named is taped or covered because they werent approached first regarding this before the film is made.I suggest getting an oscilloscope with display capable of multiple colours and that imitate *phosphor*. Those features that show things to be multi dimensional and varying like there is a lot of detail going on are the best. You can measure something and record it with the scope and play it back without stuff connected to it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2016, 03:43:16 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 14, 2016, 01:35:43 amThey buy body panels from the car manufacturers and make fake cars with them using an adaptable chassis. It's still expensive, but not as expensive as wrecking real cars.Now they want to do it all digitally:http://www.topgear.com/car-news/top-gear-magazine/exclusive-video-meet-blackbird-rig-transforms-any-car

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2016, 04:27:39 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 14, 2016, 03:43:16 amOh .... Now that is cool!