Considering a new Rigol DHO924 vs. Siglent SDS120X-E model - Any Bug stoppers? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2024, 10:48:17 pm
content: Hello,There seems to be 2 topics related to the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes.One topic only allowS discussion of the bugs in the Rigol DHO800/DHO900 series scopes. The other seems about unboxing, teardown, and hacking. Neither topic seems suited to my question.I heard there are bugs in the Rigol DH0924. Technically, any new model from any electronics manufacturer will have bugs... So, not a shocker.Have the bugs been fixed? Are they important? blockers?I am no professional; I am just an amateur radio operator who likes to build and test radio equipment in the HF frequencies and below including audio frequencies. So, are the bugs a blocker for an amateur who would only be doing common measurements, such as, measuring the frequency and voltage of a VFO?I really like the FFT math function in the new scope. Which is why i was also interested in the Siglent SDS-1204X-E.But maybe I can get by with just a TinySA as a spectrum analyzer. Sure, you can get a Siglnet SDS-1104X-E and hack it, but then you still need 4 count of 200 MHz probes. Pay that, you might as well have bought the SDS-1204X-E. I really like the markers and table listing the peaks in FFT - very helpful for identifying the harmonics and if there are indeed down below enough to meet government regulations concerning transmitter emissions.The new Siglent SDS800X HD series scopes look nice but past my budget of $700. Besides, they just came out. I would rather the professionals/experts find the bugs first. As an amateur it is hard enough to know if I properly measured something vs. the device under test really does have such and such issue vs. some unknown bug.Yet, the Rigol DHO924 is a very nice looking scope with a lot of cool new features including a very nice FFT that gives Siglent a run for the money.So hard to chose between the two scopes which are around the same price right now in the USA.Thanks in advance,Daniel

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2024, 10:59:10 pm
content: Over some years I have really liked SDS1*04X-E however SDS800X HD is a big step forward and a next level product.I can see my SN# 0012 SDS1104X-E gathering dust and SDS814X HD becoming my goto DSO despite access to much higher BW models.Even the cheapest 70 MHz SDS804X HD seriously challenges the SDS1104X-E 100 MHz BW.You need compare the datasheets with more care.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2024, 11:45:47 pm
content: Hello,I would consider a Siglent SDS804X HD and a version of the NanoVNA.Best regardsegonotto

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2024, 12:30:13 am
content: Please read the existing threads and discussions if you can, there are many. There is really not much reason to buy a DHO900, its poor value. The choice would between DHO800 and SDS120X or the SDS800 HD model. Or some similar combination.The DHO800 base and SDS800HD 4 channel base are both priced the same, $440.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho914s-vs-siglent-sds1104x-e-hands-on-(i-have-both)/

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 09:30:59 pm
content: OK. I have been convinced to stick with Siglent.To me 4 channel and 200 MHz are not something I have to have. They are something nice.So, I could get away with a 2-channel 100 MHz model.Even though i am interested in HF frequencies and below (30 MHz and below), I probably will not be doing anything above 15 meters (21 MHz) anyways. So, 100 MHz is good enough. I am unsure about 2 or 4 channels though.However, there is 2 features in the SDS1104X-E and SDS-1204X-E (4 channel scopes only) that are not on the SDS-1202X-E which is a 2-channel scope.For FFT math, there is the very cool feature of peak markers and a table that lists those peaks. I went "wow" when I saw those features.So, I have a question about the SDS800X HD series - in particular a model like SDS812X-E or SDS814X-E - can they do the peak markers and the table like the SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E can. If not, I am not interested in the SDS800X HD series then.For the SDS800X HD, I think I have seen the peak markers in screenshots or videos (I could be wrong), but I have not seen the table of peaks. Does someone have a screenshot of this?I do know the price for the Siglent SDS-1204X-E when including the EEVblog coupon code at a place like Saelig in the US, the price is very nice...I have a TinySA and NanoVNA, but the screens are small. Plus, I have to get them out of their box when I use them. The scope would just stay on the desk to use immediately.Thanks ,Daniel

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 09:53:52 pm
content: You can find all you need to know in this post and excellent thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765While the FFT screenshots are only showing a couple of markers, IIRC you can have 10.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 10:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 07, 2024, 09:30:59 pmJust get 4, unless you have a *very* good reason not to. If you have them, you will need them sooner than you might think.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 11:00:31 pm
content: I don't see the reason to oscilate between DHO9xx and SDS120X-E. Siglent SDS120X-E is an old model (I had 1202X-E), poor construction and old, slow software.What remain is DHO 9xx vs Siglent SDS800X-HD. But here again there is not much to choose. While Rigol is better in terms of hardware solution and inovation as well as design and physical contruction, Siglent is also better than Rigol in terms of software application, much better I can say. For me is a no brainer choose - Siglent SDS804X-HD is about 486E and can be "upgraded" to some extent.(I have both SDS1000x-HD and DHO 1000, and in the past SDS1202X-E).

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2024, 11:43:44 pm
content: Are you aware that the Siglent has a public key generator, so you can upgrade from sds804x hd to sds824x hd at no cost? Just beware that you only get 70 MHz probes with sds804x hd. It is still much cheaper to buy sds804x hd plus better probes.The price difference between 2 and 4 port model is just 50 euro. Why not get the 4 port model but maybe only 2 upgraded probes (if you need them)?804x hd is €409 plus 2x PP215 200 MHz probes at €30 = €469

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 12:30:13 am
content: Video showing what I mean. The link to the video starts in the middle of the video to show what I am talking about. Siglent may not be advertising this even though it is included (or maybe not) because it is not a "new" feature.https://youtu.be/2F-qECVs5L0?t=244See the FFT Math - Marker type of Peak - Table - sort by amplitude

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 12:39:51 am
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 08, 2024, 12:30:13 amRob responded- he said you can have up to 10 peak markers, and Performa01's thread shows a ton of examples, including the FFT peak markers you asked about.BTW- don't buy Siglent probes. Check out probemaster.com for nicer probes if you need them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 06:22:52 am
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 05, 2024, 10:48:17 pmI wouldn't buy a DHO900, Iwouldbuy a DHO800.You can get the cheapest model and "upgrade" it to any other in a few minutes over Ethernet.The only thing I know that simply doesn't work is video triggering.Apart from that everything else is minor annoyances. Some settings aren't remembered when you power off, serial decode needs you to set probe ratio to 1x for the threshold level to be displayed correctly. Half a dozen things on that level.Apart from that it's awesome. I'll take those niggles overanyold fashioned 'scope under $1000.The future is here and I'm not going back.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 07:10:20 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 08, 2024, 06:22:52 amSince we have established that FFT is of specific interest to the OP, I think that alone tips the scales in favor of a Siglent scope in this case. The lack of FFT averaging and peak detect modes, sometimes inconsistent parameter settings, and dubious window functions are major drawbacks in Rigol's FFT implementation.I highly recommend the new SDS804X HD, with the possibility to do a "free upgrade" to the 200 MHz SDS824X HD version. In that respect I agree with Fungus: "The future is here", including 12-bit and touch interface capability, so I would no longer buy the SDS1...X-E series.Don't be deterred by the fact that the 800X HD series is new. The software is essentially the same as on the well-established higher end models, and actually is more mature than Rigol's DHO800/900 series. (Or Rigol's 1.5-year-old DHO1000 series, for that matter.) In fact, I have only seen one issue, in a rather exotic operating situation, described on the forum so far.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2024, 07:40:31 am
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 08, 2024, 12:30:13 amSorry, been busy......Zero signal but attached screenshot should give some idea of Marker capability and the FFT Tools menu.

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 06:12:53 am
content: Thanks. I am sold on a Siglent SDS800X-HD!Great information and screenshots coming from Performa01, Tautech, and others.Now, I am just thinking of the model. I do not need the top model because I can "upgrade" later to a higher bandwidth but that would require buying scope probes that can handle that higher bandwidth. Plus US$799 is too much for me to spend.And finding an authorized Siglent seller in the USA that has the scopes in stock... These scopes sell out fast when they get a few in stock I have noticed...So, I have been eyeing Saelig but their site does not indicate in stock or not. I may have to call them to find out.Tequipment does indicate whether they are in stock or not. But, with Saelig, I have their discount code from EEVBlog.Amazon has a really good limited time deal for US$579 for their Siglent SDS1204X-E. And if SDS800X HD series model had not come out, I would have already pounced on that! No joke.Some hams are telling me - I do not really need 4 channels, but get as much bandwidth as you can. However, the 2-channel SDS800X HD scopes do not include a Ext trigger input. Why did Siglent omit this? So, I may need to go with 4-channel after all.I think 70 MHz should be good enough for ham bands like 80, 40, 30 - and just maybe 20m as well? This would be 3.5 MHz, 7 MHz, 10 MHz, 14 MHz. Sure, there are other HF bands (Shortwave) that would be interesting to build like a 15 meter (21 MHz) but these bands depend on good sun spots to be open. Granted 2024 and 2025 are good years for sun spots. I heard that the bandwidth of the scope should be 4 or 5 times the frequency you will measure. And then someone else said 10 times.So, hopefully 70 MHz is good enough. If not, I can always "upgrade" to 100 MHz or 200 MHz and get the scope probes for that. And I do not necessarily have to get all 2 or 4 probes for 200 MHz. Just get what I need for whatever scenario.So, I am thinking of a SDS804X HD or SDS814X HD. Well, at least I have seen the SDS814X HD in stock. The others sell out quickly.My current oscilloscope is a HP 54600B 100 MHz 2-channel digital oscilloscope. Made in early 1990s I think. I scored it off ebay for $55 in 2022. Surprised it worked! I have been eyeing the Siglent scopes for awhile though.However, measuring a VFO signal above 2 MHz was not stable using my HP 54600. The measurement bounced around - both the frequency and voltage. I heard the Siglent SDS1000X-E scopes provide a more stable reading. And I am hoping the SDS800X HD scopes provide even more stability. So, if there is any big reason why I would get this scope - this is it!Because the frequency from my HP 54600 scope was bouncing around, I had to switch to my HP 5314A frequency counter to measure a stable frequency. Do not get me wrong - I am happy with my HP scope - it is my first scope. And when I needed to see the waveform of my crystal tester I home brewed, it showed the wave form, frequency, and voltage. The crystal tester was basically a Colpitts oscillator.Or, I am not doing a measurement properly? I just do not know. I am an amateur after all. But I do want to learn these things because I want to get to the point I can design my own radios.Thoughts anyone?Thanks,- Daniel

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 09:31:13 am
content: @Daniel - the 54600 should work fine for watching your RF signals at all HF bands (considering its 100MHz BW). See my shots in the "54600A thread".Your "VFO above 2MHz bounces around" - that could be easily caused by the construction of your VFO. Here you have to provide more info (ie in the RF, Microwave, Ham Radio section).

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 10:53:55 am
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 14, 2024, 06:12:53 amThose hams are saying that for only three reasons:1) Their old boat anchor CRE only has two channels, so therefore it is enough.2) They never touched anything modern electronics, not even a simple Arduino.3) Their old boat anchor CRE can not do digital anyway.You want 4 channels because it is needed to do protocol decodes. If you ever have a simple microcontroller project and need to figure out why the SPI communication is failing, you need this.Even if you only want to do HAM stuff, unless you only want to work on restoring ancient radios, realise that radios all come with microcontrollers and digital internals these days. Especially all the kits that you can build.I am going to recommend the SDS804XHD and 0, 1 or 2x Siglent PP215 200MHz probes. This combination is cheaper than SDS814XHD and gets you 200 MHz probes instead of 100 MHz probes. You can wait to buy the probes until you need them.Remember that sometimes you will connect directly to the scope using a coax cable instead of probes and get the full bandwidth that way. Just make sure to have a through 50 ohm terminator for this purpose.

author: Caliaxy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 01:40:21 pm
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 14, 2024, 06:12:53 amBe aware that there is an EEV blog discount code for Tequipment, too.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 02:16:46 pm
content: We get all our Siglent gear (11 instruments) from Saelig, including the new 814X HD. Their Siglent shipment arrived Friday 3/8 and they shipped out the same day which we received Monday 3/11.Best,

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 04:16:33 pm
content: Baldurn, No. The ham who mentioned he only needed 2 channels uses a Siglent SDS1202X-E scope as many other hams do. But this 2-channel scope also has Ext trigger input as well. The 800 series does not. I was actually considering a SDS1000X-E series scope until I discovered the SDS800X HD series was being released to the West... But you are correct about this ham not using microcontrollers. But later, I will mentor him on them since he has been mentoring me on many homebrewing topics. Last year, I built a VFO using a Arduino Nano, Si53531A clock synth IC, rotary encoder, and a i2c LCD Display, but I already knew Arduino since it was microcontrollers that got me into electronics in the first place.Like iMo suggested, I will move my discussion of the ham radio stuff and measuring a VFO with an oscilloscope to the appropriate forums.Thanks everyone for your replies. I think I beat this topic to death.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2024, 10:01:46 pm
content: The good thing about siglent is also, you can download the firmware without a stupid login. I had to do this with the rigol, but their stupid login page was as buggy as their Oscilloscope.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 02:27:18 am
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 07, 2024, 11:00:31 pmWhat is the general consensus about which unit is better built, the DHO800 series or the SDS800X HD series. I saw the teardown of both of them, and honestly, it seemed to me like the Siglent was better built. It had a full metal cage, real heat sinks on everything, it just seemed to my eye to be a higher quality build. Am I wrong? Do you guys think the DHO800 is better built?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 02:57:03 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on March 15, 2024, 02:27:18 amThere are two positives for the Rigol: HDMI out and VESA mounting. That's it. Those don't matter to me, but some people prefer it.Look at the demo thread for the Siglent, it's outstanding:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 05:42:16 am
content: That VESA mount is actually stupid: It is very likely that you would block the air flow for the fan.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 09:22:24 am
content: Quote from: alank2 on March 15, 2024, 02:27:18 amI own the DHO804, and it's a half-toy really. Lots of dumb engineering decisions, both hardware and software (*especially* the latter). I bought it because: a) it's easily hacked to unlock full bandwidth; b) it's quite compact; c) it's cheap; d) it's readily available on aliexpress, and that's the only place where I can buy *any* scope for a reasonable price without an x2-x3 multiplier; e) I was ready to modify certain things such as add an external 120mm fan. And of course because its primary functions work quite well. But overall it leaves an impression that the only part in it that was designed by professionals who knew what they were doing is the analog frontend.p.s. I still like it. It's an ugly duckling.

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 10:15:47 am
content: Sadly, I have not found any USA sellers that have the Siglent SDS804X HD in stock.I have found places that have the higher priced models in stock though.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 05:59:31 pm
content: You better go with the higher prised ones.Today i could not activate Ultraacquire, because some other function blocked it. Could not find which one. You need quite a checklist to figure out. Or restart and wait 53 seconds. Maybe it was a bug.On another occasion, it just froze up. Thats about 1-2 crashes a day...

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:54:59 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 05:59:31 pmThere is no UltraAcquire as that is a Rigol thing. I am thinking we are a bit confused about which device we are talking about here? radiohomebrewer2000 is looking for the Siglent SDS804X HD not the Rigol DHO924.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: baldurn on March 15, 2024, 07:54:59 pmWhat I think is what he meant is that OP should buy SDS814xHD even at higher price because his Rigol was so infuriating...

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:12:29 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 15, 2024, 08:00:48 pmYoure spot on!I actually bought the DHO814, because i read the DHO914 was more buggy (it seemed).

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 11:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: baldurn on March 15, 2024, 07:54:59 pmThe emphasize on almost a minute in bootup time, do sound like a Rigol thing.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 11:46:01 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on March 15, 2024, 11:27:56 pmSometimes more. I notice that when it boots longer than normal, it also boots up being not connected to wifi.There are apparently good hardware designers and FPGA programmers at Rigol, but they can't (or don't care to) find decent UI designers and userspace software developers.

author: radiohomebrewer2000
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 12:17:57 am
content: Is there a way to mark a topic as resolved?I ordered the Siglent SDS814X HD from Saelig since the lower priced scopes were out of stock. And I got notification it has been shipped and expect it next week.Sorry for posting double-posting this in another topic. But I thought I would clear things up here. This scope should work fine for me. And if I need 200 MHz, I can "upgrade" it to 200 MHz and buy the 200 MHz scope probes I need - I do not have to get 4 probes at once. Based on the feeling of confidence of others about this scope on these EEVBlog forums, I think I made the right choice.The FFT Math feature with its peaks and table look really cool. And I like how sharp it looks. But like how another person on this site said - the scope is the main tool to get frequency and voltage for audio and RF - the multimeter is to be mainly used for DC, continuity, and resistance. I agree with that. Not the exact words the person used.Does the SDS800X HD series have a built-in frequency counter so it can display a stable frequency measurement?I am referring to the numbers - not waveform displayed - example: 2.345 MHz. And does it have a stable voltage measurement as well - example: 850mVp-p? Again, only talking about the numbers - not waveform. I ask because my old HP digital scope bounces around - the numbers - not waveform displayed. I have recently been told ways to make it stable on my old scope - like turn average on. Please do not reply here about this old HP scope - I created a topic for that on another EEVBlog forum at the suggestion of another person on here.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/how-to-get-a-stable-measure-of-v-and-freq-using-an-oscilloscope-on-a-vfo/Oh by the way, I have been eyeing Siglent scopes since 2022, but I decided to buy an old used HP digital scope for $55 to break myself into learning it at the time. And if I did not really get into, I only wasted $55. But I have really jumped into this now... So, time to move up to a nicer scope as a reward to myself.Thank you everyone for your replies.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 12:50:37 am
content: Edit the subject of your first post and it will show whatever you add for the thread title. People will still respond anyway though. 😉

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 01:02:37 am
content: The spec sheet should tell you the worst case "numbers" wrt accuracy.With a 100KHz Sinewave @-20dBm from a SDG6022X our 814 shows 100.0011KHz on the counter and -19.965dBm with a cheap 50 ohm terminator, so good enough for our needs at the moment.Best,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 02:07:28 am
content: Quote from: radiohomebrewer2000 on March 16, 2024, 12:17:57 amYes top right in every screenshot and you can engage additional from the Measure menu to whatever suits your requirements and have Statistics and Histograms displayed for each.See:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293750/#msg5293750

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 02:13:44 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on March 16, 2024, 01:02:37 amThe datasheet specifies 25 ppm. Which means that if a HAM was to measure his 145 MHz transceiver, he might be as much as 3625 Hz off. That is 29% of the channel spacing on that band.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 05:23:10 am
content: Quote from: shapirus on March 15, 2024, 11:46:01 pmMy guess is, that they have UI designers, but those have no clue about electronics. If they would release their sourcecode (they use 60 packages of opensource anyway), they would gain quite a bit of a lead. But then they would be hated by other manufacturers, so i guess they try to keep their "friendship" with them.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 12:44:01 pm
content: Also considered both models and bought DHO924S.Those are actually very different tools for different customers. A HUGE factor is that DHO924 can be powered from Type C - which makes it portable and power independent and therefore much more powerful in terms of possible applications (car repairs, analyzing mains power, any outside of bench applications basically)The software and built quality is different too. More geeky in Rigol, more user friendly in SiglentSo if you are going to use a scope on a bench for repairs, routine checks, everyday work - Siglent will be nicer to you,If you need a scope for hardcore engineering and discovery - go for Rigol

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 01:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 12:44:01 pmI disagree. For serious engineering SDS800xHD is more mature and more capable tool.It has dozens of analysis features Rigol does not have.Bode plot is top quality, as opposed to not functional one on Rigol.SDS800xHD has sufficient sampling rate while Rigol has not.Siglent has functional system of firmware maintenance and actually fixes bugs.I would say quite the opposite. DHO900 might be Ok for hobby user that will use it occasionally and not use all the features.It has digital inputs and signal generator, so kind of like multitool.And as a multitool, it has many tools on it, but none of them are replacement for real tools.No professional will use multitool if they can use real screwdriver or pliers.But multitool is handy to have something and better than nothing...

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 02:48:52 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 01:19:58 pmOf course you can buy separate AFG, gasoline generator, cart on wheels and act like a pro with 2Gs sampling rate and analysis which will be done for you by the Siglent scopeSiglent has also been reported to have bugs and is neither a spectrum analyzer nor a frequency response analyzer - so from your perspective it may be a "hobbyist's multi-tool" as wellThank you for your well-reasoned product estimation

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 03:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 02:48:52 pmMy friend, you are the one that is "well misinformed"..Siglent has bugs? Siglent has proven, world class good reputation for fixing bugs.It is Rigol that is not only a bugfest, but it never fixes any bugs.It is Rigol that has nor Spectrum analyser nor propper FFT. It even comes with wrong FFT window coefficients.That "special feature" is free of charge.And DHO900 is wrongly designed scope, where Rigol deliberately violated Nyquist for the bandwidth claimed.DHO800 has same software bugs, but is at least honestly specified in hardware.But hey, if you are happy who am I to argue.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 04:15:30 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 03:40:54 pmMy bet is that you are trying to justify your huge tool collectionBoth Bode and FFT works well on Rigol in a right hands. Check the EEVblog review and other reviews on YouTube. Latest Firmware is also far newer than bug reports. What you are writing looks like a misinformation and forum comments compilation. I doubt you actually tried DHO924S by yourself.DHO924S have quite limited memory depth and sampling rate for very high frequency applications (200Mhz+ region), but for everything below it's a killer scope. I made my choice for DHO924S over DHO914S not because of wider out of the box bandwidth, but because of better rise time. My intension it to use it for audio electronics - so it will be more than enough for meHonestly, I'm not interested to spend my time to fight against your hate to Rigol and making fact checking on very doubtful statements you didHave a nice day

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 04:25:59 pm
content: Keep in mind some people on this forum have vested interests in Siglent so they might be a bit more optimistic about the brand.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 04:46:42 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 20, 2025, 04:25:59 pmKeep in mind some people on this forum have visceral hatred of Siglent so they might be a very hostile about the brand.Whatever I said about Siglent and Rigol is documented facts.I like Siglent better than Rigol because they are better.I own Rigol DM3068, DG1062Z, DP831 and used to have DS1074Z.DM3068 has crappy screen and software is cringy. But it is stable and have been reliable for years.DG1062Z is a good little AWG. Computer side software is bad. AWG is good and reliable.DP831 is my primary PSU for development. I had problems with the one I bough, and it was replaced with new one in warranty. Since then no problems. Also have some stupid problems with software (like: you can enable Overvoltage protection, set it to 12V. Then you can still go to channel and set 30V. It will even let you enable channel. Then after 400ms it will disable output saying "OVP!!". While your device is burning...Programabile features are there but horribly bad to program and use.But besides that, as a basic PSU it works well for years so far.You can see the pattern of behaviour here?When MSO 5000/7000 came out I was about to buy MSO7000.Then all the problems started to show. It was late, buggy, lots of noise..Then I went an bought Keysight scope.Years later, Siglent started coming out with their touch scope platform.And it is very good. Few teething problems at first. But constant development and hard work to make better products.Not perfect (nothing is) but literally visible progress.Unlike Rigol that every few years just churns out completely new product line that has no resemblance to the old ones by making it from the scratch every time. Every time making same mistakes.I am allowed to say things about Rigol and Siglent as I own both.While the Nico does not have equipment from Siglent or Rigol he is commenting on. He is simply telepathic and just knows the truth...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 04:53:30 pm
content: A reply as expected from a salespersonIt is always funny to see the fanboys bash Rigol and Siglent like they are soccer clubs.When I look for test equipment I typically do consider equipment from Rigol and Siglent but the information on this forum doesn't instill confidence in either brands. In the end you don't get what you don't pay for.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 05:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 20, 2025, 04:53:30 pmAgain with the lies and character assassinations.You know damn well I am not employed by Siglent and do not sell Siglent.Tautech is selling them. I don't.If you are giving yourself a right to call me a "fanboy" because I simply say truth, then I officially dub you a "hateboy"!Because I have to think hard when you posited a single positive contribution in these Siglent/ Rigol discussions.You mostly join in to sh*t on Siglent, Rigol, and all the people discussing it.That is all you do.Zero substance, facts and help.Just hate.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 05:28:51 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 20, 2025, 04:53:30 pmNot meI assume those are both budget friendly/entry level brands. I would not build a rocket ship with either.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 05:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 05:28:51 pmActually that is where you are wrong.Siglent is a level up in quality of software from Rigol.As a comparison I would say Rigol is making scopes for the good looking datasheet, while Siglent makes them to be actually used.As I said, Rigol is not noname crap. It is usable and if you are Ok with some problems it has and simpler software, it can be useful tool.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 05:52:44 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 05:35:58 pmThat's what I described in my initial post. Siglent is better quality, Rigol is better feature set for the price.You look like exactly the customer I mentioned who would prefer Siglent.Both brands not a scam and could show somewhat real measurements on the screen - so it's enough for me.There was no reason to call all Rigol users "hobbiests" (which actually I am) - there are lot's of very smart guys happy with their Rigols ( even if they are not working for NASA) and refer to untruthful and doubtful facts about Rigol devices. My guess is that Rigol employs "First sell, than fix" strategy which is weird, but, for example, BMW do the same 🤷

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 06:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 05:35:58 pmBtw, what are the software features Siglent have which Rigol doesn't? Except FFT peaks marksI like the multi window system of Rigol - which I assume might be helpful sometimes

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 06:56:11 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 06:16:07 pmHello,My Rigol DHO1074 disappointed me greatly with its segmented memory. It is not able to seamlessly record segments that are 5 ms apart.Furthermore, the recorded segments cannot be saved.Is this better with the Rigol DHO924S?Best regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 07:24:22 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 05:52:44 pmUnfortunately it is sell and don't fix for years.... That IS the problem. Their hardware is decent quality.All bugs mentioned on my Rigol stuff is like that for 10 years, and in meantime new stuff was released and old was forgotten.Famous Keysight and R&S both release not even finished scopes (like there is stuff in datasheet specified, but it simply does not exist on scope).And sometimes they even wait for 9 months to release it finally, but they eventually do and they fix bugs during lifetime of product.And being a "hobby user" is not a derogatory term. It is not an insult but an explanation for a user that have limited resources ( limited money) and does not do electronics for living. So they can optimize for lower cost, if they can trade some more time spent doing something. Hobby users will sometimes do stuff NASA won't because they don't work on contract and can do things their way. There are ample "hobby" designs that are world class stuff.Professional user is not a statement of who is "better" or "smarter". It is a name for a person that does this for money, as a profession and is on the clock. This type of user will be willing to pay more for more automated measurements, built in tests etc, because it saves them time..Rigol does not have "better feature set" as a scope being measurement device. If you need HDMI output, or USB-C power, then it has to be Rigol because those specific requirements. But Siglent is better measurement instrument.As for difference, there are numerous analysis advantages: 4 full math channels where you can type in custom math formula per each Mathchannel. Gated measurements, measurements across full capture, advanced statistics with histicons(histograms) per every measurement...While there is no built in AWG, it works seamlessly with any Siglent AWG for multichannel Bode plots that are absolutely top notch.You have 2 custom probes per channel that get remembered. You have probe check that will actually calibrate your probe level.Etc etc.For good and detailed presentation of its capabilities, I recommends excellent topic by our friend Performa01:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293741/#msg5293741For instance, Rigol does have good set of triggers and in that regard is very good, not worse than SDS800xHD in any way.So if advanced math is not something you need, and measurements as they are on Rigol are satisfactory to you than it is adequate instrument for you. Siglent is still better, but that is irrelevantfor youif you won't use any of the advantages.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 07:32:49 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on May 20, 2025, 06:56:11 pmIt's possible to save Image or waveform, but not a whole recordered segment. Although a record settings are quite advanced. It's possible set both time intervals and the amount of frames - so it's definitely possible to capture 5ms and then choose a peak frames which could be saved.Another probably better option is to use Perspective/Mosaic/Waterfall display mode and save it as an image as demonstrated here:https://youtu.be/iFq5JJcuDMw?t=252

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 07:35:14 pm
content: Think someone could infer that either Rigol or Siglent are acceptable DSOs for both Hobby and Professional use.When Rigol introduced the new 12 bit 800 series, we applauded their use of in-house designed ADCs at a DSO price point most hobby types could afford. Soon after we ordered a 814 for a client (long story), mainly for the size, 12 bit ADC and VESA mount. We still have this (part of long story) and have used it on occasion after spending some time initially exploring it's features and behavior. As we've stated many times earlier Rigol hit a home run with this new 12 bit DSO, it's just good, real good in fact. The hardware is really well done and the software/firmware is pretty good also. One can't go wrong with this DSO at this price point, it's simply outstanding!!A year or so later Siglent introduced their answer to the Rigol 800 series, also the 800 series. Where Rigol hit a Home Run, Siglent Loaded the Bases and hit a Grand Slam. It's that good, stunningly good is an underestimate, every bit a Pro Level Instrument that one knowledgable would expect costs much more.Having both Rigol and Siglent, we prefer the Siglent for many reasons, which isn't a dig at the Rigol, simply an acknowledgment of just how good the Siglent implementation isAnyway, one can choose either and be assured of a really good valued DSO InstrumentBest

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 07:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 07:24:22 pmType C was a deciding factor for me because i may want to clean mains power in my house someday for my recording studioWhile it might be absolutely useless feature for someone else. That what i was referring - they are pretty different products for different customers. None is better than the other.Custom math formula is a killer feature

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 07:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 03:40:54 pmSo how come there's a Siglent bugs thread?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/news/test-425857/#msg5469913

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:03:45 pm
content: 1) I am a happy user of Rigol DHO804 unlocked to DHO924 (sans hardware differences of course);2) Rigol DHO800 series are excellent scopes for reasons explained many times in hundreds if not thousands of posts on this forum;3) Rigol DHO800/900 scopes suck terribly for reasons explained many times in hundreds if not thousands of posts on this forum;4) I don't know anything about Siglent SDS120X-E, but if we compare the Rigols with Siglent SDS800X HD, then by all means get the latter unless you need a specific feature of the Rigol that overrules all its disadvantages for your specific application, or there are logistics/availability constraints.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:05:56 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 07:45:26 pmThis smells like it should be moved into the dodgy technology section, right beside the reactive power recycling topic.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 07:32:49 pmHello,no it is not possible to have segments with 5 ms spacing without gaps.My DHO1074 is too slow for this.Best regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 20, 2025, 07:46:31 pmWhat is the question?I said they fix bugs when found, not that there aren't any. R&S and Keysight have bugs too. Even more than Siglent on some occasion.By owning a problem and fixing it they got to be world class companies.Guess who also does that? Siglent.Guess who doesn't?If you go into that topic you will see things get fixed after being reported.Rigol still didn't fix those FFT coefficients for more than 2 years. Despite Rigol users discovering the bug and actually fixing it. All they need to to do is take that file and merge it into FW. But they don't care.After they kept stringing you for months with that FW update they promised you, and people making fun of it, I would think you would be more cautious with their promises.Like I said. DHO800 is not crap. It is usable little scope that is worth the money you pay for it. DHO900 I said many times what problems it has.And if you buy any of these scopes and they are fine for your purpose in state they are now, good for you. But don't expect, fixes, enhancements etc. They might (and sometimes do) fix some things, but they employ principle of minimum effort (to maximize profit) and they prolong it as much as they can until platform is old enough and then simply move on to next generation, never achieving full potential on previous one.This is not my invention, this is documented behaviour over 3 generations of products. It is their policy.That is probably how they achieve low prices.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 05:28:51 pmYet 2 of our customers are.1 has 60+ launches under their belt.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 08:37:55 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 08:20:38 pmThis might be the only objective technical argument which was mentioned in this thread. Could you please share the link to this topic? I can't find it onlineAre you sure it's a real bug?I totally understand that Siglent UI looks prettier and it boots faster - as far as i understand that's the main reason people prefer it

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 09:25:28 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrinUh... No.When the SDS2000Xplus came out five years ago, I took the plunge, sold my Rigol MSO5000, and bought the scope.The difference was like night and day, and that had little to do with the UI, which is still present in all other newer models today.At the time, I was also disappointed with rigol's slow support in terms of bug fixes. That started back then and hasn't gotten any better today – quite the opposite, in fact.Today, users are making their own firmware to improve the scope—how embarrassing is that?As a manufacturer, I would be mortified, but instead, rigol is throwing one new model after another onto the market and couldn't care less about supporting existing, purchased scopes.That would be somewhat acceptable if the new models were equipped with improved software.However, on top of that, they all have the same buggy software.Unlike some people here in this thread, I can actually say something about this because I have experienced it myself.If you search, you will find my threads about the Rigol DHO800, Rigol DHO4000, and Rigol MHO5000.All three model series have one thing in common: the same software platform with the same bugs that have not been fixed to date and inadequate features.The only difference is that the DHO 800 costs so little that you can overlook these issues, while the MHO5000 costs up to €17,000.The DHO900 series is no different, plus the messed up sample rate vs. bandwidth thing, it's a chimera and you should steer clear of it.The fact that there is a bug thread for the siglent SDS800X HD (some of which involves direct participation from siglent) reflects the level of support provided by this brand.As a result, the model is regularly maintained in the form of firmware updates within a short period of time.It is strange that some people twist this support as if the scope were so buggy because the thread is so large.This may be because people don't understand the processes involved.Here's an example from my everyday work:Most of our products are accepted by the customer directly on site. We invite them to our premises and demonstrate the device they have ordered, which we have developed and built according to their specifications.We developed and tested the software for this, and everything is fine.Then the day of acceptance arrives and the customers do “things” with the product that we would never have thought of and find bugs.Are they angry about this and refuse to accept the device?No, on the contrary, they are satisfied once we fix the bugs they found.How come?Because the customer knows that nothing is perfect and that you can never anticipate every eventuality during development.He doesn't hold that against us because he knows the circumstances and doesn't expect everything to run smoothly from the start.But he does expect us to solve any problems that are found, and then he's happy with the product.That's the difference, that's the approach Siglent and other brands take.But rigol doesn't, and that's the main difference in my eyes when it comes to reasons for buying.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 09:26:52 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 08:37:55 pmAll I said was technical factual things. It is actually so many differences that I don't want to go into details. See that Performa thread I linked. There is literally a book of highly technical explanations there.As for Rigol, there are many topics here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho800900-oscilloscope-bug-reports-firmware/msg5089921/#msg5089921https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigols-new-dho800-oscilloscope-unbox-teardown/msg4965172/#msg4965172There are some more topics about fw releases. Use search inside Test instruments sub category.If anything, people were saying that Rigol UI is "more modern" and that Siglent is more "old school" but well organized and logical.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 09:36:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 20, 2025, 07:46:31 pmBecause Siglent listens !I've had bugs I've reported fixed and new a firmware version publically released in 2 weeks back in the days before Siglents private beta tester forum where we can all double check each other and discuss proposed improvements and solutions.Get a top quality team bouncing things around and anything is possible within the bounds of theorem, especially Nyquist which is adhered to religiously by Siglent designers .....something not all brands do....

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 09:26:52 pmHonestly, after comparing Siglent/Rigol GUI more consciously during participation in this thread I realized that I like Rigol much more.Siglent FFT peaks marks are kinda stupid and annoying as it's lot's of false marks may appear on very low fake peaksRigol just doesn't try to look like fake Spectrum Analyzer.Overall it looks like a toy compared to Rigol, although I do understand some people may prefer such a simplicity for their use cases.Such a desperate criticism of Rigol actually made me feel like I've done a right choice with DHO942S.I'm pretty sure that it will be stable enough to be used a reliable tool. If not, I will return and join the Siglent marketing team on this forum 😁

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:18:41 pm
content: QuoteYou have to adjust that, then it will work.QuoteRigol also has this peak marker function, but you have to set it there too.QuoteThen be happy with it.QuoteOh, I think you'll be happy with your current scope.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:24:39 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 08:20:38 pmSome of those are over a year old - back from when it was first launched.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:32:04 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 10:07:49 pmI own a DHO804 and I don't regret buying it at all.If a scope does what you need then...

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:44:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 20, 2025, 10:32:04 pmIt's smaller, half-mobile, more hardcore GUI - what not to like?BUT! please be prepared Rigol may not implement the feature which you request in forum post

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 10:47:56 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 10:07:49 pmAt this moment I think you are trolling us now.Rigol implementation of FFT is the one that looks like "fake spectrum analyser" and is simplified without some of the settings..If it doesn't show sampling spurs, that is faking it by artificial removal.And it is Rigol FFT that looks like a toy with it's simplified implementation.But if you think like that, good for you.Desperate criticism ? That makes you feel like you made good choice... Mkay... Good for you.Siglent marketing team?Next time I will not loose any of my time trying to help you with facts, just to be insulted.Good for you.I think you will be happy with Rigol.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2025, 11:15:59 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 10:47:56 pmSorry, i was trying to find some deal breakers for Rigol, but only discovered even more advantages. Firmware nightmare which you keep talking about doesn't seem to be a reality for most ofcurrentRigol users.Let's summarizeSiglent SDS824X HD pros:- 2GS\s- More memory depth- Faster boot time-Probably more stable software and customer supportRigol DHO942S pros:- Faster capture rate- Faster rise time- More bandwidth (with not a lot of use considering a smaller sampling rate)- Smaller- Lighter- AFG built-in- Type C powered- Quiter- VESA mount- External monitor support-More advanced softwareBasically the same as i was wrote in my initial post :/I'm pretty sure i will be happy with Rigol for my applicationsThank you!

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 12:18:06 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 20, 2025, 10:47:56 pmSorry, I didn't want it to sound like an insult. Really appreciate that you shared your experience and absolutely believe there was actually a case. I just hope they fixed all the weird stuff 🤞 My scope is on the way and I will let you know if something will went wrong with it

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 01:19:16 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 10:07:49 pmAbsolute Garbage !If you might take the time to do proper research or learn to drive Siglent FFT you would know better, much better.Once the Threshold and Excursion marker parameters have been setforyour needs you can get the results you require:

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 01:32:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 21, 2025, 01:19:16 amYeah, it was already mentioned by Martin72. Also Rigol have the same peak markers, but they turned off by default - so they will not annoy me (I will not be interested to see them in most cases)

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 02:15:51 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 01:32:18 amThis might shock you, but you can turn the markers off on either brand. 😉

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:41:32 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 20, 2025, 11:15:59 pmAll I see, again, is some wrong information (sold to you by Rigol marketing) and a confusion.For pizza delivery moped isbetter suitedthan Porsche 911. But it ain't better by any metric.Faster capture rate is marketing wank from Rigol. They claim faster rate in special Acq mode that is useless. In more than 2 years they stopped talking about it but this misleading specification stays in datasheet. One of the Rigol tactics. In normal acquisition modes it actually has slower acquisition rate, by quite a lot. But that specification is very dependent on settings in any way so be careful. It has sufficient capture rate for the price.Faster risetime and BW (Which are basically same physical specification) is NOT and advantage if you have half of sample rate to begin with and that drops below mathematical requirements for proper signal reconstruction. DHO900 is only mathematically correct in it's 125 MHz version. Anything above that with 4 ch enabled is going to show you literally garbage on the screen.All mechanical differences you mentioned (size, weight, VESA mount) are something that is irrelevant on the desk. SDS800xHD is small enough that it makes not much difference. If you plan to use Rigol as portable device, that is going to be a bit awkward because it is not really a handheld scope, but I guess you can carry it around. USB-C power is also weird choice for a table scope, because it is easier to have scope that has normal power outlet, and not care for additional device. But you will be able to to power it from a power bank so if portable is what you need you can improvise that with DHO.Built in AWG is sometimes useful. They have limited amplitude, and limited capabilities but they are there. Better than nothing.Rigol software is NOT more advanced. Why do you keep saying that? It has windowing, that is true but it is weirdly made, window titles are all messed up (so you can't see what is what) etc. How advanced software on scope is is defined by how powerful and sophisticated are measurements with scopes. Matlab has horribly outdated (like 30 years outdated) look of old Unix workstations. It looks nothing like a modern, cool, Apple like fancy software. But it is still the most powerful software of it's kind on the planet.Rigol GUI might look more modern. But it is less advanced scope software by order of magnitude. In fact, they chose to make it that way. Again in best Rigol fashion, they choose to make it "look good" instead of more traditional but powerful.So for you all the mechanical characteristics are more important than scope signal fidelity or analysis. Good. Then you have found a device that is suited for you. You found what is best suited for your specific needs.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:35:58 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 08:41:32 amExternal screen and multi-window might be extremely helpful for debugging circuits using all 4 channels at the same time. Another aspect i like is that it Android based - as an Android developer with 15+ years experience I can confidently assume Rigol actually could have automatic detailed software crash reports statistic for all their scopes which see internet connectionRigol is geekyGuys runs Doom on it, hack the hell of it and then complain about unstable OS behaviourQuote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 08:41:32 amExactly! These are different models for different customers. Siglent would be much more attractive if i consider it for a bench and for day to day work, but i will mostly store the scope in closet - so Rigol will take less space

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 01:02:17 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 08:41:32 amDon't forget that it has also been demonstrated that DHO800/900 start failing to reconstruct the signal properly way before the frequency reaches half the sample rate, meaning that their signal processing math is poorly implemented.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 06:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on May 21, 2025, 01:02:17 pmThat's kind of what he said.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 08:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 06:46:59 pmIn general, yes. I just added more details on how bad it really is: it's not only trying to reconstruct signals above Nyquist in the 250 MHz bandwidth version, but it also fails to properly do so even way below it. It could have been better, if the Rigol programmers did the math right.It was all discussed in one of those threads. Anyone with a genuine interest can do a search, including my posts with screenshots: I remember testing something regarding this too when we compared the behavior of DHO800/900 and SDS800X HD in this specific situation.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:11:02 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus, abridged by me on May 21, 2025, 08:18:39 pmIf anyone is interested, this is the relevant post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-between-entry-level-12-bit-dsos/msg5476804/#msg5476804As a comparison, Performa01 had previously done a similar test on the SDS824X-HD:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/choosing-between-entry-level-12-bit-dsos/msg5476738/#msg5476738

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 20, 2025, 04:25:59 pmThat's soo dope 🤣 The worse PR I ever seen)

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 09:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 09:20:38 pmJust so you know, nctnico dislikes Rigol every bit as much as Siglent. Perhaps even more.Other than owning a Siglent and the natural endorsement that comes with that (no matter what brand it is), there is only one participant on these boards with a vested interest in Siglent and that would be tautech. However, he rarely outright bashes other brands, but will correct misconceptions in comparisons, or outright misinformation.No one forced to you to make a poor choice, and so far, the reasons you have given for that choice don't really pan out. Like you did little research and are now trying to backfill. That's coming from an admitted Siglent fanboy.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:09:22 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 09:53:32 pmClose but not entirely accurate.At least 2 other members are Siglent resellers, one of which has been very active in the past starting several threads and offering advanced detail on some Siglent product capabilities.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:11:10 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 21, 2025, 10:09:22 pmI stand corrected.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:26:53 pm
content: Quite many of these posts center on Rigol DHOxxx versus Siglent SDSxxxX HD, and for obvious reasons.. Two of the most attractive priced entry scopes.Weird that EEVblog Youtube (as in Dave) Who i remember, was handed one of each from Siglent & Rigol like a year or two back, don't make a video comparing them, as I would guess that is one of the reasons why they gift him these...so he could make videos about themDave' do talk about how his channel ain't growing and fair enough, but the content sadly also taken a downward spiral (IMO) and not much product-reviews anymore for the hobby-based consumer market..Instead lot of talking-head vids, "about energy-conspiracy & energy scams".Maybe make a video comparing these two quite popular entry scopes, not least after they both have been on the market for some time and matured a bit, and compare their fundamentals.The consumer-based product reviews have been some of the most popular EEVblog videos, and likely why many subscribed to the EEVblog YT channel...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:28:33 pm
content: It is incredibly weak to accuse people whose opinions differ from your own of having some kind of interest in the brand.That's the only thing you can come up with when you have nothing else to say.That's why, a few years ago, I decided to only comment on things I have actually experienced.I don't have to rely on video clips or other people's posts to form my opinion; I know exactly what I'm talking about.That's why I bought a DHO800, why I rented a DHO4000 and an MHO5000, and why I had an SDS800X HD, an SDS2000Xplus, and an SDS2000X HD—precisely so that I wouldn't end up in a situation where I didn't actually know what I was talking about because I hadn't experienced it myself.This stupid fanboy babble gets on my nerves and, to a certain extent, insults professional intellect.I remain convinced that this forum thrives on the exchange of experiences, on fruitful exchanges between experts and people who want to become experts or at least learn more.This kindergarten crap that keeps cropping up is disheartening.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 09:53:32 pmI hardly will ever have more than 20khz in my audio projects 😂I do understand that you are making a friendship around love to the brand and having somewhat nice time online here..but pushing cracked DHO800 with two 250MHz signals and expect a good picture is a joke. Moreover publicly blaming the product developers for not knowing Nyquist theorem 🤣 They actually might spent more time and know about oscilloscope engineering far far more the anyone on this forum - just a plausible guess 😁The statements and tests you share with each other are so farfetched that it makes it looks like a Apple funboy club with a lollypop in the mouth anddoesn't make a good credit for Siglent.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on May 21, 2025, 10:26:53 pmIt's also strange that he never (as far as I know) released a review video for the Siglent alone, not even a comparison video, even though I think I saw him posting a photo of a package or something like that suggesting that he received one (with the intention for it to be reviewed or something else, I do not know).It's a pity really. But there must be reasons I guess.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:34:29 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 21, 2025, 10:28:33 pmIn this particular case the amount of red flags (no pun intended) is quite sufficient to simply ignore the user altogether.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 09:53:32 pmIt is not dislike. It's just that after carefull consideration based on the information provided on this forum and other sources the quipment from those brands typically doesn't suit the purpose I need the equipment for (*). There is nothing emotional about that. Just running a business in a sensible way.* Ofcourse you can go and buy a whole bunch of equipment and test it yourself however that is hardly a productive use of your time because testing equipment to its limits is very time consuming. I have done some oscilloscope reviews over the years. Doing all the testing takes me several days of work. And that is just for one oscilloscope and typically I have not covered all aspects. Now imagine buying 5 or 6 oscilloscopes and spend weeks on testing... This is why product reviews and experiences from others posted on this forum are so very useful. It allows to look at dozens of options instead of just a few.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:51:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 21, 2025, 10:41:27 pmDidn't mean to offend. I was just talking in technical vernacular, as in: "I like the specifications of product A over product B", or "I dislike the performance of this .) When we make statements like that, we are hardly being overly emotional. Instead we're coopting a single word as shorthand for a lot of technical jargon. That's all I meant.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 10:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 10:29:35 pmReal Rigol fanboys think it is just fine... That is THE problem.Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 10:29:35 pmYou are again reading what you want instead of what was said. Rigol problem is not that their engineers could not make great scope. It is that management overrides their opinions. Those who do not know who Nyquist was make decisions. Therefore Rigol as a company ignores Nyquist.. Their engineers are probably ashamed...As for for other statement, you are wrong. Very wrong.Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 10:29:35 pmIf you don't understand something that doesn't mean it is stupid. I don't see how advanced information like a whole book that Performa01 wrote should be considered something shameful. You live in opposite universe it seems.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 11:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 10:52:42 pmThis is exactly what I urge you not to do. And one of the main lessons I've learned during my 20+ year engineering career.Your disrespect for Rigol is overwhelming and kinda fun to watch as an absurd theater. Even if I, to be honest, rofling about this thread - I still do respect you passion and effort for electronic equipment 👍

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 11:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 10:52:42 pmNone of that. Rigol just expect their users to be smart - know Nyquist theorem and check the sampling rate bar at the top for being appropriate for the signal they are measuring

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2025, 11:48:10 pm
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 21, 2025, 11:43:05 pmWith this being an entry level scope, how realistic is it to assume that their target market are going to be that well versed in how digital scopes work? Yeah, this is one of the silliest and saddest excuses I've ever heard to try and justify a poorly engineered and flawed product.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 12:06:26 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 11:48:10 pmBasically they are making products for those who actually want to learn the tool and make some work with it, and ignoring those who randomly pressing buttons, doesn't read manual, breaking the software and complains that something doesn't work for him (that is even more obvious with built-in AFG Bode plotting function in DHO900 series which is a bit tricky and requires careful execution of the algorithm from the user manual)Yes, that's quite a bold and risky approach. But I kinda like and respect it

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 12:14:32 am
content: There's no use in feeding a troll. Another child calling everybody that disagrees with him a shill. 🙄

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 12:29:23 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 22, 2025, 12:06:26 amNo, such design is lazy and foolhardy whenpropermanagement of Nyquist limits include appropriate BW limiting analog input filters and/or actively reducing BW when multiple channels are engagedandflag this in the channel tab, just as when the 20 MHz BW limiter is applied.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 12:58:22 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 22, 2025, 12:29:23 amCan't stand not to share your knowledge from user manual? 😁🤣 Of course you can reduce the analog BW as well if afraid of some hf noise 👍 good boy

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 01:09:55 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 22, 2025, 12:58:22 amGood lord! All those years in "engineering" and you really don't have a clue! I guess this explains the high quality of Lada's and all that Russian TE that's so popular around the globe.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 05:48:55 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 22, 2025, 12:06:26 amYeah.Let me explain this , since you are new here. That is called magical thinking and exactly what people here would call being a "fanboy".Ascribing positive feelings to something badly made and trying to justify their bad design choices as something done for good reason that benefits you.Juust saying.So you think that particular product (DHO900) is made the way it is because :- There is insufficient sampling rate when working at 250MHz BW and all 4 channels at the same time. If you enable 4 channels you are trying to sample 250MHz of BW with 312,5 MS/s. There is no setting with 4 ch that can make it right.Reason for this design decision is not that Rigol chose to put in only one cheapest ADC and cheapest FPGA that can do the work.Reason is that they "respect intelligence of their customer and expect the customer to know what Nyquist is".If customer is intelligent and know what Nyquist is, they realize they have to buy something else.- Product brakes because of something user does. "built-in AFG Bode plotting function in DHO900 series which is a bit tricky and requires careful execution of the algorithm from the user manual"..So there is a product that in 3 years now, that has Bode function that has problems and it does not work right. It is well documented, and nobody ever made it work right. Rigol admitted it.But nooo.. It is users fault. They didn't perform some magical procedure from user manual. I looked into manual. There is no procedure for measurement in Manual whatsoever. There is only explanation what items in menu exists and what the mean. Not a single sentence explaining "special" steps to perform measurement that guarantee result. I don't know, I tried FRA on Keysight, R&S, Picoscope and they all worked first time, and produced good, identical, results.Basically, everybody that says anything you don't like about DHO900 ( no matter how true it is, in plain sight in datasheet, or proven by many people, including some that are doing this for 50+ years) is stupid.All problems and bad design is there to help user learn and challenges them to think how to avoid problems bad design will create for themIt cannot be just that manufacturer decided to make dishonest product in which they threw together a list of "features" that sound well and spliced it together to "sort of work" at cheapest possible manufacturing price.It can be 250 MHz scope but with only up to 2 CH.It can be 4 CH scope but violates Nyquist.It has Bode plot, that plots something but it is not right. Sometimes is. Mostly not.It has FFT. It refreshes fast, but you don't have full control and some coefficients are wrong. But hey, some pretty lines are dancing, cool.Etc, etc.Yes, that approach is "bold and risky" and we should respect them for it.Or they are just scamming users that don't know better and there are people like you that spam Internet with counter propaganda.Hmm... I cannot decide which it is. This is hard.Hint: if product is bad, problem is not in people that are complaining.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 05:59:33 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 22, 2025, 01:09:55 amTo be honest, I've seen Land Rovers being pulled out of the mud by Lada Niva, that passed there previously...Not to mention Kamaz trucks winning Dakar Rally 19 times..Don't expect surround sound and luxury seats, though.Lada Niva has plugs in the floor, that you pull out and wash floor with garden hose... Because mud... In which case that is important feature for intended use...Everybody does something right, stuff they know how to do.Trick is to stick with what you know. And to use tool for the job.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 06:50:14 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 21, 2025, 11:48:10 pmIt wouldn’t surprise me indeed if most of the buyers of entry level scopes never heard of Nyquist.Even basic knowledge of electronics seems nowadays absent, especially in those repair shops.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 07:33:24 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on May 22, 2025, 06:50:14 amBut why would they? This wasn't a thing in analog scopes with which many started. This is also beyond what a user, be it a circuit designer or a repairman, typically needs to know even when using digital scopes, especially when the scope is not a half-baked one such as Rigol DHO{8,9}24. Digital signal processing is a separate area of knowledge in its own right.Of course this knowledge can be useful and good to have, but...Quote from: Sorama on May 22, 2025, 06:50:14 am...but the principles of sampled signal interpolation are outside the scope of basic knowledge, I'd say.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:16:29 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 22, 2025, 01:09:55 amOh, I see you know the history of science well 👍🤣

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:18:51 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2025, 10:52:42 pmNo we don't, we're just honest about how likely that is in practice.We're also honest enough to say that if you need to multiple 250Mhz signals simultaneously then you shouldn't be looking at entry-level 'scopes anyway.The supposed "sample rate advantage" of Siglents will makeno difference at allto your average hobbyist who tinkers with audio, Arduinos, etc. None. Zero.On the odd occasion where you reallyneedthat sample rate you can just turn off a channel or two and look at the high-frequency signal with bandwidth to spare.If you really need four channels at 250MHz on a daily basis then you probably shouldn't be looking at entry level 'scopes anyway.As noted many times, Rigol IS better than Siglent in some areas, eg. UI.(and hackbility, too, if that's your thing)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:23:34 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 22, 2025, 05:48:55 amYeah, but who actually does that in practice on an entry-level scope?I betyoudon't.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:45:28 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 22, 2025, 05:48:55 amI don't care about Rigol - it's just a toy for me, as any other oscilloscope would be. Scope is just a tool which is hardly more complicated, then, say, pliers. I tried to explain you the logic behind the product, which you absolutely can't understand\don't like.Quote from: 2N3055 on May 22, 2025, 05:48:55 amBasically this reply is a proof of concept - you are the one who can't find info in manual, as a Siglent user

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:47:41 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 22, 2025, 08:18:51 amThis is highly subjective. IMO, for example, Rigol's UI is absolutely terrible. This is no damn smartphone for instagram beauty bloggers, this is an engineering tool, and the UI design goals should have been set accordingly. Siglent meets them much more closely than Rigol.What is objective and is not an opinion, but a fact, is that a lot of screen space in the Rigol's UI is wasted, which, given the small size of the display, is a crime. Enormous paddings, logos, useless elements wasting (especially vertical) space and creating visual noise in general. This space could have been used for actually useful data, as has been successfully and very convincingly demonstrated by people working on customized UIs in the hacking thread. That is how the UI should have looked out of the box.Quote from: Fungus on May 22, 2025, 08:18:51 amThis one without a doubt yes.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 10:05:05 am
content: Quote from: shapirus on May 22, 2025, 08:47:41 amWe're now free to choose that if we want it so it's hardly an argument against buying one.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 10:07:48 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 22, 2025, 08:45:28 amSo you are an agent provocateur.Good to know.Modern scopes are VERY sophisticated and, unfortunately, complicated. It is you who seem to be too simplistic to understand that. Or you ignore it because of some private agenda or reason.To borrow you comparison of tools, comparing an old CRT scope and modern entry level scope like SDS800xHD, it is like comparison of an old manual lathe and a small CNC machine. While in theory you can use CNC machine in manual mode, it is REALLY stupid way to waste your time. It PAYS to learn how to use CNC as it was meant. And reap benefits of it.And there is NO info in manual on HOW to use Bode plot (as in steps to follow, or "algorithm" as you said). Only screenshots of menus and explanation what items in these menus mean.You said that people couldn't follow instructions (steps) outlined in manual, and that by following those "magic steps" Bode works as well as one on the Keysight.There are no steps in manual.There is not even connection diagram in the manual, they refer you to help on the scope.Bode plot does not work right. It was proven by owners, that judging by your narrative, know about scopes much more than you.And until Rigol fixes it it will stay broken no matter how many times you call me names for pointing out that emperor has no clothes.Fun part is, Rigol could fix those (and other problems, except sampling). But guess what, thanks to people like you, they don't do that.You should be pissed at them that they sold you equipment with defect and demand a fix or money back. But instead of that you fight people that say the truth out loud.If придурки are happy as it is and even are prepared to fight with those who raise questions about problems, why would they stop the losers.They smile and count money... And will never fix anything.Fun part is that you gave money for something that is not right, you fight for their "honor", and they don't have to do anything and already have collected your money.And you are stuck with status quo.And you hate me for saying it out loud....Fun world you live in.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 01:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 22, 2025, 10:07:48 amYou are irreconcilable) It was fun to argue with you, but I have to concentrate on my work nowSiglent is good too, don't bother

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 03:30:42 pm
content: QuoteTranslation: "I don't agree with, or care about, reality. My opinion is superior to any facts presented." 🤷

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 03:43:25 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 22, 2025, 05:59:33 amBack in the day (mid 70's to mid 90's) Lada were exporting cars to Canada. First the Vaz which was joined a bit later by the Niva. They didn't do too well and got a bad reputation for having poor handling and really bad brakes. They also seemed to rust out quickly, which was a surprise as Russia has similar winter weather to Canada and uses salt on the roads to help melt snow just like us.Yeah, a lot of them found their way onto farms to live out their final years. They at least ran for a long time, if not a good time.Now back to that really horrible 900 series Rigol scope shaped object...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 04:08:53 pm
content: As I reported in detail in another thread, the Rigol Bode plot function, even in the low-frequency range of 1 to 100 kHz, produces erroneous results for a simple R-C low-pass filter. I reported this politely, with an organized memo, through Rigol to the factory engineers, who acknowledged receipt, but without further communication. Looking at the release notes for software updates, I have seen no mention of the Bode plot function.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 05:32:39 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on May 22, 2025, 04:08:53 pmRecall that issue, were you ever able to actually use it?Best

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 06:00:57 pm
content: The scope functions, but there is no change to the dysfunctional Bode plot.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 06:37:36 pm
content: This does not work even with the €5,200 Rigol....

author: bte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:30:22 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on May 22, 2025, 06:37:36 pmYes, you had mentioned it here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-mho5054-a-short-review/msg5844041/#msg5844041I had a quick look at the Rigol CSV file you attached to that post and the data looked OK (i.e. similar to what is shown in Siglent plot). I wanted to find at the time an online plotting solution to check it but forgot about it until now.Now that I remembered about this topic, I looked around and I foundhttps://chart-studio.plotly.com/createwhich provides a simple plotting facility. I fed the Rigol CSV file to the plotter and attached the results to this post. My conclusion is that the data in the csv file is correct, but both Rigol and this online tool can't do graphs with separate Y axes, hence the squished and incorrect plot.Don't get me wrong, there's nothing to defend in this case with respect to buggy Rigol behavior lingering for so long (and even showing up in new products) but since you said "I still have the CSV file backed up, I'll look at it soon - or one of you do it" in that post, here's the late reply.EDIT: OK, I figured out how to do double-Y axes on that tool and attached the correct plot corresponding to the CSV data. So now it is only Rigol that can't do the graphs with separate Y axes.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:33:41 pm
content: It's great that it works on a computer...

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 08:41:50 pm
content: Quote from: bte on May 22, 2025, 08:30:22 pmTheir unwillingness to fix this (and this should not be any big deal) is main reason I did not went for never Rigol scope and looking for other options...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 09:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 22, 2025, 08:41:50 pmWith the 924 Bode plot problem, I thought the small image on the screen looked bad, so I downloaded the .csv files and graphed them with professional graphing software ("Grapher" from Golden Studios) to get the plots that I posted.The curves from the .csv file had the same problems.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 09:52:52 pm
content: Awhile back after retiring we needed a DSO and were not familiar with all the types/brands since our entire career we utilized Tier 1 Class "A" equipment brands. We had never heard of Rigol, Siglent, GW Instek and so on, only the "A" brands.Since the "A" brands were out of our range/pocket now, we started following the various DSO threads here. After some time we became familiar with those that were consistently knowledgeable, those that were sometimes knowledgable and those that "thought" they were knowledgable. After careful analysis we selected Siglent as our 1st venture into this unknown DSO area to us. One of the deciding factors was the apparent lack of follow up by Rigol on firmware updates to "fix" known problems, where Siglent seemed to follow up often, where Rigol did not.Later after significant "hands on" we uncovered some of the hidden jewels within the Siglent DSO which went well beyond what we expected from a Class "B" OEM, as good if not better than what we would expect from a Class "A" OEM, even highly underestimated by Siglent themselves!!Alert folks can sift thru all the mud slinging and BS flying around, and they should be able to access those that actually have "hands on" tested/evaluated Rigol and Siglent DSOs and what those "hands on" folks decided upon.Either brand is good, real good in fact, one is just little better IMO.BTW what ever folks decide, please come back and report after some "hands on" experience. It's the spirited competition between Rigol and Siglent that keeps producing better and better instruments that are affordable for allBest,

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 10:56:02 pm
content: QuoteThis problem is more complicated as you can see if you look carefully on data imported to excel - ones I used are from Martin's file:- Gain plot is OK (just question of how one wants to scale it) because the data are OK- Phase is not OK - look at that column values...update:*it seems that there is some problem when Excel is importing data in those particular lines but have no clue whyafter crosschecking with file from Martin and manually entering those few values the plot looks OKso if it isnt it then what - or what can be worse if their scope software handles data similar way to excel and produces such "wonders"First thing Rigol should correct it is X axis units to standard values like Siglent uses - logarithmic scale is not like you can multiply it by two and get away with it

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 11:01:26 pm
content: after removing those "wonderful values" you may see there blank space but plot is suspiciously close to what we expect

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 11:09:37 pm
content: excel with imported data - very rough - sorry - just wanted to see what is wrong here

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 11:33:55 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on May 22, 2025, 09:52:52 pmYes. It is far better to have a scope that started with 15 problems but got 15 fixes than it is to start with a scope that started with only 10 problems but got no fixes.

author: JonMorton
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2025, 11:42:05 pm
content: Quote from: BillyO on May 22, 2025, 03:43:25 pmUSSR/Russia never discovered or contributed anything to motorization, everything what they offered was stolen.- Just check cylinders ignition order in all USSR/Russia build cars until late 1960’s.- In late 1960s Warsaw pact countries signed contract with FIAT, and it is where engines for LADA, ZAPOROZEC came from. Quality wise POS!In summary, Russia/USSR didn’t design anything, all what they are proud about is stolen from NORMALcountries.Kamaz, Uaz, etc. - TECHOLOGIES STOLLEN FROM COUNTRIES WITH COMMON SENSE.

author: i.shadrin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 12:12:06 am
content: Quote from: JonMorton on May 22, 2025, 11:42:05 pm😂 You are so Coca-Cola and beer brainwashed and incompetentAll NASA space rockets flies on Russian developed RD-180.Also there was new plasma rocket engine announced in Feb this year which can reach the Mars in 30 days - and kinda is the dream and hope for Elon Musk projectMoreover, it shows that you doesn't have a proper education and know nothing about math/physics/engineering/chemistry/art/literature etc, because otherwise you would know the names of great russians and their contribution

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 12:32:31 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 23, 2025, 12:12:06 amHello,I would like to mention two names:Andrei Nikolayevich Kolmogorov, who, among other great things, constructed an L1 integrable function in 1926 whose Fourier series does not converge anywhere.Grigory Yakovlevich Perelman, the only person who was able to solve a millennium problem. (as of 22.5.2025)Best regardsegonotto

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 12:33:32 am
content: The Russian people were huge contributors to art and science for a very long time - then communism happened, then worse still, Putin happened.You only have to listen to the music of Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsakov and Borodin compared to Stravinsky, to get an idea of how the political changes affected the arts.The RD-180 happened due to competitiveness and was developed at a great cost to the Russian people. The whole space program was horrendously expensive along with weapons development and for a time these two pursuits seemed to be all that Russia was about. Now it's abut Putin the bully. Trump's mentor.As for automobiles, yeah Russian cars sucked for a long time. I have no idea what they are like now, but yes, the first Lada designs were based on the Fiat 124. Fiat engine design was copied going forward. As for motorcycles, The Ural is a pre-communist design (based on BMW) and has seen little in the way of progress since the first one rolled off the assembly line. Your automotive efforts are lacking.I'm sure the Russian people are just as great as they were 108 years ago. They just need to throw off the yoke of that tiny dick-tater.

author: JonMorton
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 01:47:10 am
content: Quote from: i.shadrin on May 23, 2025, 12:12:06 amFirst of all, you know nothing about my educational background, 2nd. how USSR/Russia (same crap) got knowledge of RD180 technologies... obvious it has been stolen.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 04:01:40 am
content: Well it is no secret that USSR and USA gained greatly via capturing top German scientists during WW2.One should also remember that actually USSR constructed R-7 (first means for ICBM) and stolen/captured or however obtained they really did improved and developped rocket technology. If you are so familiar with their achievements you also need to remember that so far their Soyuz is most proven space ship on planet (however we may not like that fact due to obvious sentiments). To sum up perhaps they have a struggle (and far less potential than West) with inventing something new but they are really good in adopting and enhancing designs and making things that work in harsh conditions.but I think we went too far off topic with that historical sketch

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 05:14:43 am
content: Quote from: JonMorton on May 23, 2025, 01:47:10 amObviously educational background excluded history of any sort.No, it was not stolen.Unlike whole British empire built on colonies and genocide....A country that used to make cars, aeroplanes and best jet engines.A country that started Industrial revolution.Today, Mini is German, MG is Chinese, you are making no cars or airplanes anymore..A country that made Harrier and now buys that USA made Fat Amy, that by the way has VTOL technology bought from Yakovlev.There..Happy now?Now that everybody was equal opportunity insulted, enough of politics.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 04:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on May 22, 2025, 09:42:29 pmcould you please share that file from 924?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 07:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 23, 2025, 04:14:31 pmMy error: it was a DHO 914S.The thread I started ishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho914s-bode-plot/To make those plots, I downloaded the .csv file into Excel, then plotted the gain and phase with frequency on the x-axis and two y-axes for gain and phase.

author: kmoonwalker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 07:55:48 pm
content: After looking at that plot I must say I tinkered a bit with 914 time ago and it was not producing such oddities, wasnt some great either but not like that.Need to remeber who has it rn and ask if I can borrow it.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2025, 08:00:30 pm
content: Quote from: kmoonwalker on May 23, 2025, 07:55:48 pmMy results were consistent over a few months and changes in the exact setup (always doing the same frequency range).If that was a problem with the individual unit, I would be very interested, but I believe others in the same thread found similar results.