Another must-read for beginners: - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 08:34:58 am
content: http://xyproblem.info/

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 09:25:27 am
content: The best thing to do is to present Y then explain reasoning for approach X.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 10:15:48 am
content: Sorry Tim, but you really are having a troubled week... yes...?I follow your posts because you are so knowledgeable... no, I am not a stalker...This week you have had so many one liners... it is just not like you...Hope you are all good.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 10:18:12 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on August 17, 2016, 10:15:48 amIt is a useful resource, and took me 5s to see what it is about - and agree with it.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 10:32:29 am
content: I agree with you, however that is not my point.I personally will google my arse off before posting a question here.In one of my posts long ago Tim came in with a concise and clear explanation that nowhere else had provided... I seriously rate him for taking the time to do that.My wife was asking why he was being so short, so I thought I would raise it... No offence Tim...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 12:23:20 pm
content: That is a great link Tim, including the two other links at the bottom of the page!I work day in and day out with similar scenarios and can understand the frustration... Also, sometimes one-liners become our own way to get some revenge towards "the system".A modified version (XWAGHJFMY) also be applicable to oscilloscope discussions around:johndoe> My first post here, please don't beat me up but I searched and can't find an answer for my exact problem. I started to get an interest in electronics and want to buy an oscilloscope for my projects. Can you suggest an oscilloscope for a beginner? I heard that Rigol DS1054Z is good but I have an opportunity to get a Tektronix 2465 for $150 instead. Is this a good value?other_1> Nothing beats the DS1054Z and the 2465 is very overpriced for what it is. You should save to get the Rigol. What are you trying to do with it?other_2> The Tektronix is the best analog scope that ever existed and I think it is a bargain. The Rigol is a toy that is full of bugs and can't do proper decoding of signals and have measurements. My Siglent SDS2104X can do much better than that for a bit more money. What is your area of interest?other_3> Beginners should start from the basics. The world is analog and your oscilloscope should be. My Tektronix 7104 with a 7T11 plugin can scan 1GHz signals much better than your LeCroys, Keysights and Tektronix can ever dream. Also, my 7A29 plugin can read 10mV/div that no one of these modern digital stuff can get. What do you want to do with it?other_4> The Tektronix was a good oscilloscope for its day, but nowadays it is a boat anchor that is reaching its end of life and is full of unobtanium parts. The Rigol does not have reliable advanced triggers for digital protocols and you will do much better if you get an A-brand oscilloscope from eBay or ask the manufacturer or a local distributor for discounts. BTW, what are your projects?other_5> This question was asked a million times. Google is your friend:http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Rigol+DS1054Z+or+Tektronix+2465other_6> other_4, you are a sellout for these brands and I think you are completely dismissive of the advantages of the Rigol. For the price you can't do better. To the OP, stick with the Rigol.other_2> other_6, you have issues, dude.other_3> other_4, try to get a 1.5GHz signal at 12mV with your modern digital stuff and I bet you can't. My 1GHz oscilloscope can do that with ease. Check the pictures below: <blurry_film_camera_shot1.png>, <blurry_film_camera_shot2.png>, <blurry_film_camera_shot3.png>, <blurry_film_camera_shot4.png>.other_1> other_2, bugs? Tell me what bugs address the OP's issues? The decoding bug is well known and is documented all over this forum. Rigol is constantly updating their firmware and try that with your Siglent! OP, get the Rigol.other_4> other_6, you come with your empty accusations. Go haunt someone else. other_3, get on with times. Beginners shouldn't start with yesteryear's technology. Digital oscilloscopes are suited for the modern technology. Try to get a serial stream on your analog boat anchor and see if you can get this: <loosely_related_screenshot1.png>, <loosely_related_screenshot2.png>, <loosely_related_screenshot3.png>, <loosely_related_screenshot4.png>. Offering a boat anchor to a beginner is irrespnsible and leading to fail.other_1> other_3, I bet your analog boat anchor can't decode I2C just like my DS1054Z can. other_4, tell me which A-brand scope costs $400 and does everything that my DS1054Z can.johndoe> Wow, I didn't expect the number of answers. Thanks guys. I like audio and my project consists of an Arduino that will control a LED and do a digital volume control. I already have a multimeter. I am also interested in guitar pedals and would like to see how the signal will be distorted on the audio path and an oscilloscope seems to be the logical way to go.other_1> For that you need a multimeter (I have a Brymen BM869S) and a Spectrum Analyzer, however these cost a lot of money.other_5> SAother_3> other_4, if you don't learn the basics you can't get anywhere. OP, the Tektronix should suit your needs for audio until you can afford a Spectrum Analyzer.other_4> other_1, the FFT in your Rigol is a joke. The OP will not be able to get anywhere near enough resolution for audio. OP, you need a signal generator and a spectrum analyzer. A soundcard should be enough. You should also get a bench multimeter like the Keithley 2015 with distortion analyzer.other_6> here comes other_4 and his feeble attempts to dismiss Rigol. Tell me where you can get your "A-brand" scope for $400? TELL ME! You stupid idiot.moderator> LET'S KEEP IT CIVIL, GUYS.other_2> You need a signal generator, but don't get one of the modern ones. an old HP3314 outputs a cleaner signal than any of your modern digital crap. other_4, you really shouldn't lead the OP to spend $$$ on things he will not use.other_1> other_4, you need to keep it real. the OP is not rich.<and then follows with discussions about analog X digital, politics, religion, gun control and hitler>

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 02:03:27 pm
content: That's what my sig says.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2016, 02:52:40 pm
content: I have a lot of clients that demand Y while their problem is X.I always tell them "tell me your problem, what you want to do, and I'll provide a proper solution. Don't ask me to do something that YOU believe it's the only solution". In 99% of cases, the solution ten times much simplier than that they thought.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 12:46:43 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on August 17, 2016, 10:15:48 amThanks. I've been on location (an hour away) so my free time is maybe a little more prioritized than usual.Tim

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 01:24:21 am
content: I have my own stories about such. Having spent most of my professional life in Application Development, dealing with pre-established 'solutions' was part of the fun.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 04:05:06 am
content: Quote from: mcinque on August 17, 2016, 02:52:40 pmSomewhat tangential to XY, but speaking of consulting....http://mistupid.com/jokes/page113.htm

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 07:50:41 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on August 17, 2016, 10:15:48 amHow do you follow someone's post? Just pay attention when they come up or there a way to see all of someone's posts?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 08:26:07 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 18, 2016, 07:50:41 amIf you look at a user's profile there is a link to "Show user's posts".example.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 09:07:44 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 18, 2016, 08:26:07 amThank you

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 02:40:00 pm
content: A recent example that made want to bang my head against the wall:n00b: Hey, I upgraded my laptop to Windows 10 and now Backspace doesn't work!What n00b really meant was that Backspace didn't work as a "Back" button in Google Chrome, which was due to a recent Chrome updateAnd another one that I encoutnered way more often than I would like back in my PC tech days:n00b: Hey! The internet connection has stoped working on my computer!I would check the computer and the internet was working just fineWhat the n00b really meant was that some specific website or application that requires an internet connection wasn't working, usually because the remote server was down or some such.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 03:56:39 pm
content: Yesterday on the parkinglot, a family is having trouble with their car.Hood is opened, almost all doors open, backseats down, kid in the cargo area, people fumbling at the cargo door. I ask what they are doing and if they need help.The cargo door of their volvo sedan doesn't open. Well, after a while of fumbling with the key that is supposed to work but doesn't I ask why the door doesn't open.The battery is dead, and it's in the back, so they cant jumpstart if the door is not open....I walk the hood, ask the range rover guy that already got his cables out put to get to the front of the car and open his hood. I pull the little tab exposing the + bolt and attach the negative to a random chassis bolt. Guy freaks out says that is not negative. I say it is and he should start cranking.Car runs instantly.Turns out they have been there for about an hour because the hazards were on and drained the battery.Fixed it in a few minutes.Y: door doesnt open.X: battery is dead, and user does not know there is a + tab under the hood and chassis is -.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 10:05:40 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on August 18, 2016, 04:05:06 amQuote from: Jeroen3 on August 19, 2016, 03:56:39 pmExactly.