Solder irons/tips for fine pitch QFN's and 36ga bodge wires - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 06:52:23 pm
content: I have owned and used various Weller irons over the years. The one on my bench now is the general purpose WES51 with a variety of tips. It works great for big pins and wires, but is not great for very tiny work.As my work get more complex, the devices and wires have shrunk to the point where working under a microscope is the only option (and my eyes are very good). For most projects I have a stencil and a batch oven which is a reliable way to deal with fine pitch. Sometimes, I have to hand place the paste with a pneumatic dispenser which almost always ends with a bridge or two or three on the fine pitch parts. The Weller tip options are (in relative terms) huge and rounded which makes it a fussy event to de-bridge a QFN package for example. The tip contacts the top of the package and the PCB and never touches the solder. when it does touch the solder, it is much bigger than the joint and creates another bridge on the adjacent pads.Attaching a 36ga bodge wire to a single pin is quite a challenge with the wrong tip as well.What tips do you you use for these occasional super delicate operations that come up in prototyping? I am more than willing to get a whole new setup just to get the variety of tips needed. Brands? Weller, Hakko?This looks interesting....http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fm2032.html

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 07:27:50 pm
content: You can never have enough flux for fine work IMO(within reason).Work technique is very important too and the tip type will just seal the deal.Technique is often dictated by the PCB layout are care must be taken with layout as to not solder yourself into a corner.Chisel tips are my preference, mainly for better heat tranfer. On odd occasions a very fine tapered needle type tip MIGHT be the answer, but generally chisels will do the job.Pb or lead free?

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 07:41:38 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 02, 2015, 06:52:23 pmsmallest tip I have is a .010 chisel tip Weller WRS3000 system.... 36ga bodge.. can you say microscope? 4x or betterQFN's are tough unless you use hotplate/reflow, the pins are almost unreachable. QFP, different story.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 08:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2015, 07:27:50 pmWith a QFN, flux application is easy enough. The problem is that sometimes the iron cant reach the solder joint at all because it is an inside corner. I have made the pads oversize on the PCB to give me a better chance. The radius of most tips available for the WES51 entry level station is too big to reach inside corners. I use the chisel tips for removing passives, wire-to-board, and other general purpose tasks. For the task of soldering a single very fine bodge wire to a single pin of a .5mm device - a pointed tip has been much better. The chisels almost always bridge the adjacent pins to the bodge wire.I agree technique is critical! I am not gods gift to soldering, but I do have decades of experience, most of which is professional. The technique for drag soldering a fresh QFP is very different than trying to get a bridge off a re-flowed .4mm pitch QFN surrounded by components. By the time I got some chops with drag soldering, I also got a hot-air station, a professional re-flow oven, a stencil printer, and a paste dispenser - making drag soldering nearly extinct on my bench. Bridges are inevitable as are bodge wires during prototyping.For placing a tiny bodge wire or removing a tiny bridge, heat transfer is not so critical since the joint is so small.See the air gap where the joint is? The tip spans 3-4 pins at a time, risking a bridge in another location.Quote from: jlmoon on April 02, 2015, 07:41:38 pmIt is all under a microscope. 0402 passives and .4mm QFN's is definitely in the world of mandatory microscope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 08:29:49 pm
content: I hinted that layout was inportant to PCB population, it is MUCH more important for rework.Always give layout for posible rework serious thought.Sometimes removal of 1 large component can make all the difference and this fact can sometimes be used to advantage in design.

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 09:39:27 pm
content: I have and love a Metcal MX500P. Due to the use of RF energy to transfer heat almost right to the tip, you can use a very fine tip and still get amazing heat transfer. I've attached an example of using a fine tip with a small QFN package, and can reach individual pads.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 09:46:46 pm
content: Now that is what I was hoping for. Overall, is there a good selection of tips big and small for that model?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 10:03:17 pm
content: A bent fine point is really good for pulling out bridges, and soldering single pins/pads/fine AWG bodge wires.In my case, that's the LT1LX for the larger Weller WSP80, and an NT1X for the smaller WMP iron.

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 10:17:39 pm
content: QuoteThere is a huge selection... if possible try to just get a used unit with a bunch of tips (that is what I did) that might be NOS. I think the tips are ~$45 each from a distributor. See the last pages ofhttp://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1693798.pdffor a list of the tips. Interestingly note there is no temperature setting on the unit - the temperature is set via the tip.For example on e-bay right now there is a unit with a bunch of tips:www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-Smartheat-Rework-System-MX-500P-11-MX-WS5-MX-RM3E-Cartridges-/111352113187?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ed1a6823- be warned that specific unit doesn't come with the 'tweezers' but comes with tips for it, and has the wrong iron holder (only looks to have the one for the tweezers). If you found the tweezers to go with it and used some other iron holder would have a nice setup! That particular guy is pretty expensive, but looks to have a ton of tips worth ~$600+ alone, although the details aren't listed in the auction.People have published full schematics/repair info as well, so it's possible to maintain these units for a while to come yet. I think I paid ~$500 for a used unit with a bunch of accessories 5+ years ago, and I still consider it one of the best purchases I've made related to electronics. You can get single units cheaper too, and just buy the one or two tips you need. Be sure to also get the heat-safe pad (mouser.com/ProductDetail/Metcal/MX-CP1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtyU1cDF2RqUDMpM1b%252bNZc1HCJpbVMDXWY%3d) if your unit doesn't come with one, you can use it to easily swap tips.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 11:13:02 pm
content: I use an LT1 tip on a Weller WSP80, or on a Hakko bit 900M-T-1.Also I use a microscope, 20x.I don't preheat.Video with the Weller herehttp://youtu.be/iK7ZVRb1zgY

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 11:19:19 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 02, 2015, 09:46:46 pmHuge selection but also it's very easy to swap tips, which I often avoided with those nut type solder iron.Metcal tips are not cheap though.As others said, flux is your friend. I am using the tacky kind, it stays better in place.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 02:24:49 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 02, 2015, 10:03:17 pmSo far, this seems to be the most interesting. I am concerned about a unit that does not have temp display of adjustments like the Metcal. changing the temp with the tip would be great for a production environment from a process security point of view. Also, over the life of the system - the cost of the tips is worth considering.The Weller WD1 with WP80/WMP pencils seems like it would deliver the performance and tip choices. Trying to figure out the Hakko equivalent at the moment to compare. It seems to be the point of entry into professional systems.http://www.tequipment.net/WellerWD1001.htmlMoving up to the Weller WX system seems like a solution that I would never outgrow, but at a price. The dual station with de-solder hand piece and regular pencil could be a good option. At a $1,000+ USD, its a commitment though.http://www.tequipment.net/WellerWXD2020.html?v=7451

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 08:44:42 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 03, 2015, 02:24:49 amThis is essentially the setup I'm running (older WSP80, which you can get parts for instead of the WP80).You'll save a bit of money if you start with a WD1002T (WD1 + WP80 + WDH10T Stop-n-Go stand), and add the WMP iron. The stop-n-go stand is really nice to have as it extends tip life (allows you to use the WD1 to it's fullest),and will work with both irons.You're also close to JBC Compact station money here, so keep that in mind (works with the T-210 and T-245 iron handles, which both fit the stand collar).Either of these should come in around the $400 - 450 mark shipped (w/o additional tips).Quote from: rx8pilot on April 03, 2015, 02:24:49 amYou'd do well to take a serious look at JBC if you're going to go this far.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 10:59:46 am
content: That WXD2002 looks like it has a vacuum pump for use with a through hole desoldering iron, but of no use for surface mount.This is my setup...From the top, left to rightWeller HAP 1 hot air pencilWeller DSX 80 desoldering ironWeller WD 2M dual channel power unitWeller WP 80 soldering iron with LT B bitWeller WSP 80 soldering iron with LT 1 bitWeller WMRT desoldering tweezers with a selection of bits, usually RTW 1Saike 898D desoldering hot air ironWeller WMD-3 rework station with vacuum and pumpRegarding the irons...The HAP 1 hot air pencil is hardly ever used, for SMD removal I almost always use the WMRT desoldering tweezers for smaller SMD parts or the bargain basement Saike hot air iron for large ones. The HAP 1, being only 80W, just doesn't cut it as a hot air iron for anything more than an SOT23.The DSX 80 is only of use for through hole repairs. It's handy to have, but it gets used very sporadically when repairing old gear, for example when re-capping. Probably better value for me would have been to buy a Chinese equivalent bearing in mind how little it is used.The WP 80 and WSP 80 are very similar. I have both because it's not at all uncommon to be switching between fine and not-so-fine pitch. Having to change bits is going to severely impact productivity if you do much rework.The WMRT is very handy for removing those jelly bean SMDs.The Saike 898D is the surprise. Cheap as chips, it's worked faultlessly for me for over four years, having lifted and reworked hundreds and hundreds of QFN (and other multi pin) packages. I used to use the accompanying iron with a Hakko 900M-T-1 for miniature rework: the supplied equivalent bit didn't last too long.So in short, unless you are doing much through hole repair or rework I wouldn't bother with an expensive vacuum iron.

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:11:02 am
content: QuoteAh that's a good point I forgot... because you can swap tips so easily and it takes ~3 seconds for tips to reach temperature, you actually use the correct tip most of the time. With the nut-type I would rarely swap tips unless it was a completely impossible job, or always deal with trying to shake the hot tip out without burning myself haha. I keep a chisel tip and the fine-pitch tip in the previous photo at the ready, and normally switch between them as needed.QuoteI've never missed this to be honest. With the Metcal system you should never need to change the temperature for regular work - the only reason I've used temperature control before is as a "hack" over lack of heat transfer... if soldering a big-ass connector would have to crank the tip temp up, because when touching the work I knew it would drop. By comparison you can literally go from soldering a huge thermal mass onto a ground plane to soldering a 0402 resistor with the Metcal with no issues.I've got a video (WARNING: audio level was really loud for some reason I never fixed, turn speakers down):andshowing removing a SMA connector off a ground plane, which is normally very difficult.QuoteAfter getting a FR-300, I realized how useful a real desoldering gun/hand-piece was! I'm sure that would be a nice station too, and having the real desoldering gun makes life a lot easier. Especially that it would be right there ready to go on your bench.

author: Chris Jones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 11:32:04 am
content: If getting a Metcal, it may be worth considering a MX-5211 instead of the MX500. I have two MX500 soldering stations that I use simultaneously when I need two irons (e.g. to desolder both ends of a surface mount resistor). The two power supply units take up a lot of space and the MX-5211 would be smaller, perhaps cheaper, and is more powerful per iron than the two units that I have.Here is a page from an owner of it:http://mightyohm.com/blog/2015/01/cool-tools-metcal-mx-5211-soldering-station/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 12:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: Chris Jones on April 03, 2015, 11:32:04 amYou may want to take a look at this tiphttp://www.all-spec.com/products/smtc-188.html

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2015, 05:02:38 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on April 03, 2015, 10:59:46 amGreat practical info, thanks.I have just enough through-hole to want to protect my option of getting a proper vacuum de-soldering tool. I have a choice to get separate pieces or get a multi-channel system. As much as they cost, the Weller WXR3 systems keep the overall solution size FAR smaller than a bunch of single units. This could be a deciding factor since the vast majority of my work is in design, not repairs. What that means is I have to have my soldering options together with all my test equipment on the same bench with some sort of experiment in the middle. A small multi-use configuration is a time saver because it can be close to the action. I can have all options at the ready and close by for the 36ga bodge wire, SOIC-8 replacement, or a through-hole LCD display. It's easy to get cold feet when looking at that $1800 price though. I should think of it as the last solder station I will ever buy.To solve the immediate challenge, an eBay Weller or Metcal will certainly do the job of dealing with bridges and tiny bodge wires. I am just getting up to speed on the the current state of the art in soldering stations - pretty amazing. The trick now is to evaluate the actual ROI vs. cool factor impulse buy. It's only a matter of time before we see WiFi on our soldering irons so we can monitor the tip temperature from our vacation on a smart phone.Still looking closer at the Metcal's. The super fast temp recovery seems nice. I don't go through too many tips so I should not make too big a deal of the tip prices.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 04:10:32 am
content: For those with Metcal's - do you think they recover faster than some of the other high-end options? Does that help when working on jointed tied to ground planes or other situations where you get a big temp drop?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 07:24:31 am
content: Most of my soldering is for development, but there's also a fair bit of rework on production boards that fail my own final tests after they come back from the assembler, and there's a tiny bit of repair work mostly for my own ageing test equipment.Some of the Weller, and I am sure other manufacturers', solder stations have all sorts of USB connectivity to monitor temperature and wotnot. I've never used this functionality although one of my stations supports it, I've never seen the point.The benefit of investing in decent quality soldering equipment is that it will last a very long time. I think I've only changed one LT1 bit in a decade, but I do keep a minimal stock of consumables like this for those rainy days. Manufacturers also tend to support aftersales for a long time afterwards too.If you are finding yourself continually changing bits, don't hesitate too long in investing in an additional iron, I used to find bit changing exasperating in that it upset my work flow.

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 11:39:22 am
content: QuoteI haven't used the higher-end Weller units so can't compare to that unfortunately, only other irons I've used recently are new Hakko units, but not high-end ones. If it helps you can see my two videos removing SMA connectors on big ground planes, this is done with a regular chisel tip (i.e. not even that fat), linked previously, and without adjusting temperature up (since you can't!). But it might give a comparison for someone to try against?Intuitively, I would expect the Metcal to recover much faster than conventional heaters. This is simply limited to the design of the tip - the heater core is literally right behind (and permanently connected to) the tip, as in the right part of this image (this is fromhttp://www.okinternational.com/metcal/english/globalnavigation/applications/hand-soldering/what-is-smartheatwhich describes how their system works):There is no real temperature sensor in the Metcal system, as once the temperature of the heater core falls it starts absorbing energy again. There is also no large thermal mass on the tip - meaning it heats up from 'off' almost instant (~3 seconds), and this also gives it such good recovery time once the temperature does fall.It looked to me like some of the newer/higher-end Weller units had very short tips though, which I assume are an attempt to minimize the amount of metal between the heater core and tip. This would probably achieve quite good response as well though!QuoteYeah... actually I'm still on one of the first tips that came with my Metcal, so they do seem to last quite well. Because it's so easy to swap tips 'live', you might instead look at it in investing in a few fancier tips, such as the 0402/0603/0805 res/cap tip. They even have ones for doing full TQFP and SOIC packages, but I haven't tried those and they are way more expensive still!I swap between STTC-137 (chisel) and STTC-145 (fine) for reference.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2015, 05:05:26 pm
content: One of the advantages of the MX500 is that it is built like tank with mostly standard parts, no microcontroller and firmware, and the schematic and circuit description are available on the net. This makes it reliable and easy to maintain.I got a used MX500 'power supply' from ebay (they are always available) and a new base and hand piece from amazon. Mine is a 220V unit with jumpers reconfigured for 110. I don't know if all 110V units can be reconfigured to 220V.JBC also get very good reviews so you may want to check it since once you invest in a brand, you are likely to stay with it. Personally I like the simplicity of the MX500 and the separate power supply and compact base.The only thing I don't like is the need to toggling power off/on to resume operating after a tip change. I understand the safe concern (e.g. you insert a cold tip with bare hands and it gets very hot in seconds) but having to toggle a switch doesn't sound right. I am considering adding a good quality Resume push button (a NC in series to the power switch or reseting the circuit directly somehow).

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 11:57:32 am
content: QuoteI assume they can - there seems to be jumpers on the PCB for selecting the primary winding connections on mine too. The repair details/schematics/PCB layout athttp://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/193474/MX-500P-11.pdfseems to list them as being part of the regular build.QuoteAh... you reminded me of the one thing I hate with this unit - it's just a soft power button. I can hear the quiet hum of the huge transformer inside it even when it is off. And at one point a transistor went in the unit, which caused it to turn partially on even when off (as you mentioned the availability of schematic/parts is a nice asset!). What would be so bad with a real switch?I ended up getting a power distribution center for my bench to make it easier to turn the primary power off (along with some other devices that didn't have any power switches) - I got this for example:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GASJF2/.Note the MX500P also has an auto power-off, which for me sometimes turns the thing off even if I'm using it. I thought it was supposed to detect activity, but I suspect if you are only doing very small tasks it doesn't draw enough power. A quick toggle is enough to fix that though.You can disable auto-off with a small set-screw on the side, but it's also very easy to leave the unit 'on' by accident since it's just a small green LED indicating power. So I don't want to totally disable that feature, as it's saved me more than once.There is even a homebuilt PSU people have made to power the metcal wand:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/, but I haven't looked at that in detail.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 01:28:48 pm
content: Quote from: coflynn on April 03, 2015, 11:11:02 amI bought a few extra barrels for swapping tips really quick (only takes a few seconds). You do have to figure out what tips you'll need first of course, and load them into the barrels, but I'm not bothered by this.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 01:42:15 pm
content: I am not trying to start a flame war but I would seriously be considering a JBC station if you are thinking about a Metcal.They both are among the kings of thermal recovery and power but why not get adjustable temperature for free? JBC also has an insane variety of tip shapes and sizes.Entire tip selection chartHERENotice I did not trash the Metcal, I will not engage in a flame war

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 09:07:57 pm
content: I took some time to go through their website. It seems like the best of Weller and Metcal combined. The pricing is well within striking distance for a commercial operation.Never looked at JBC before, but clearly should not be left out.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 10:36:54 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on April 04, 2015, 04:10:32 amMetcal RF heating in the tip works differently, the thermal recovery is limited by the power available from the supply but except for the extreme jobs it isn't noticeable because the energy is delivered directly to the joint rather than through the whole tip. The cool part of the tip absorbs the energy, so you can sink all the power into small geometry pads without needing to increase the temperature of the whole tip.Quote from: rx8pilot on April 05, 2015, 09:07:57 pmJBC sense the bulk temperature of the tip and regulate that, its not comparable to Metcal for small joints. You end up falling back on the situation of adjusting the tip temperature to compensate for the thermal impedance to the joint. If a Metcal station is available there really is no need for temperature controllable stations unless you are constantly moving between a range of exotic solders.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2015, 11:09:23 pm
content: IIRC Hakko also has an rf soldering station with metcal compatible tips.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 12:17:48 am
content: QuoteQuote2xLook at the second picture in this Metcal topichttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/metcal-sttc-soldering-cartridgetip-teardown/A coil pumps RF into the tip body at a point located some 15mm away from the joint. Try melting plastic with Metcal - it works, but plastic itself can't "eat" RF.Chinese JBC tip teardown went 404, but as far as I remember, the temperature sense point is where the narrow tip cone expands to a wider cone - that's where the heater coil attached to the tip bodyhttp://www.jbctools.com/c210020-cartridge-for-t210-handpiece-product-237-category-4-menu-4.htmlBelieve or not, that JBC C210020 0.1mm cartrige delivers enough power to solder a mains wire at default temperature. The only problem is too small contact surface, but a blob of solder filling the gaps does the trick.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 12:36:43 am
content: Never seen a JBC but I believe those that say it's very good.I am very happy with my MX500 and appreciate its simplicity.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 01:26:28 am
content: Well....coming from a Weller WES51 - all of this is a MASSIVE upgrade. It is hard to really appreciate the differences in the high-end options without using them. The JBC company appears to offer some sort of demo program. That sounds fantastic before I commit to a >$1000 solder station. Assuming my little biz continues to grow, I would need a few more stations. The preference is that they are all the same to facilitate interchangeable parts.My best guess is that the thermal recovery performance between Metcal and JBC are probably close enough that I could not appreciate the difference. They both offer 'micro' hand pieces and tips to deal with my current problems and have great options for more general purpose soldering as well as de-soldering.It may be silly, but being able to see the parameters on a display is a comfort. Also, pushing a button to change the temp seems easier. Maybe, with very fast recovery performance, I may not need to change the temp much since it will not plummet as soon as I touch a grounded pin or other thermal sponge.I had no idea how much there was to consider.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 01:34:08 am
content: I have done some awesome plastic repairs with my JBC. The ability to dial in the perfect melt temp for the plastic is really handy. You will not regret getting a JBC.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 08:42:27 am
content: Quote from: abyrvalg on April 06, 2015, 12:17:48 amRead the patents, the energy is dissipated in the cool parts of the curie point material which is deposited on the outside of the copper slug. When you wet the joint the thermal impedance is vanishingly low due to a) the curie point modulating the power faster than an electronic control loop can and b) the path from the heating element to the joint is microscopic.You sound like someone who hasn't used a Metcal/Thermaltroincs system, it is completely different to how other soldering irons behave.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 09:27:46 am
content: Quote from: coflynn on April 05, 2015, 11:57:32 amNice unit Collin , now you're in Leon's leagueI got the "Older brother" for xmas - The SSTS-PS2V - Nice offer £80https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/kjds-january-sale/msg576634/#msg576634It has a real mains switch , but afaik no auto off or anything that fancy.KJDS shipped with some tips/cartridges , but i also bought a refurbished tips pack on *bay.Wasn't there a hint about using a magnet in the stand for "power off" , the magnet should put the tip's 13.6MHz resonant point out of the range , and there would be no heat on the tip./Bingo

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 12:03:59 pm
content: QuoteAwesome... it always struck me as odd Metcal doesn't offer that, nor do I see them setup with a bunch of soldering irons at ESC or other conferences. As they could sell 10x as many if they gave people a chance to try it out themselves, but doesn't seem to do that. I only got one after using it in person at work. But I suspect all of the higher-end units from different manufactures are all pretty comparable, and will feel worlds better than what you had before.QuoteAll this time, I never knew. I don't have an official stand so never had that feature, but bringing a magnet near the tip seems to cool it down! Some epoxy can fix that...Those SSTS-PS2V always looked even more indestructible!

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 09:21:49 pm
content: Someone, I can ask the same - did you ever tried JBC?I had a borrowed Metcal SP200 as a temporary replacement iron before getting my current JBC CD-2SB. Both show excellent thermal recovery capabilities, can't say which one is better in this field. Metcal's principle of intrinsic regulation looks cool on paper, but in practice JBC's 60 times per second control loop is just fast enough to feel no difference. Never had to raise the setpoint for bigger mass, but switching between Pb and Pb-free profiles with a single button press instead of cartridge change (hello Metcal) is a plus. Mechanical properties like thinner/softer cord, thinner cartridge body make difference in daily usage too.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 09:42:20 pm
content: It's a possibility that more than one brand makes great soldering stations.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2015, 11:55:30 pm
content: Quote from: abyrvalg on April 06, 2015, 09:21:49 pmI use Metcal and JBC stations on a daily basis, and have tried most of their models at some point. I have also regularly used Thermaltronics but none of the most recent Weller products. The thermal delivery of the smart heat tips from Metcal/Thermaltronics is a completely different experience to even JBC tips.I don't feel its any quicker between swapping cartridge tips or adjusting the set point on a station, both are tasks that take a few seconds. Like deep memory on scopes adjustable temperature stations have some unique uses, but I prefer to stick with the curie point thermal control.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 12:18:43 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 06, 2015, 11:55:30 pmAny difference between Thermaltronics and Metcal tips? I know that they make Metcal compatible tips but never used them.Edit: they have Metcal compatible concave hoof tips that I don't think Metcal has. For examplehttp://www.thermaltronics.com/datasheet/M7WV020http://www.thermaltronics.com/tipcartridge.php

author: coflynn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 02:57:00 am
content: QuoteHow are those units? I hadn't seen that before... looks to be almost a straight clone of the Metcal units! But at a much lower price...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 03:35:06 am
content: Quote from: coflynn on April 07, 2015, 02:57:00 amIt was founded by ex Metcals.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2015, 03:52:32 am
content: The Thermaltronics (marketed as Easy Braid Co in the US/Digikey) tips offer a range of different geometries covering most of the existing Metcal line and adding in some new designs, but not the lowest temperature specialty tips. The tips seem to be performing and lasting as well as the Metcal product, though their stations are of the expected low quality so be sure to keep the documentation needed for the 5 year warranty.