How is it possible that this is profitable? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 05:33:15 pm
content: http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-multimeter-98025.htmlIt boggles my mind..

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 06:42:42 pm
content: Because it's very poorly made by children in some Chnese sweatshiop.Don't use it for high energy sources (mains or automotive). Only use it for working on circuits powered by small batteries or mains adaptors.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 06:45:43 pm
content: Its a POS, thats why

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 06:49:19 pm
content: before we start or continue the discussion, i prefer revising the old existing efforts that people have made... so i just re-searching the eevblog library to bring back the sweet memory. here i presenthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=871.0dated around 6 months ago, thank you.

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 07:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on January 17, 2011, 06:49:19 pmLOL, sorry. On a side note, they do also have their digital caliper on sale for $9.99. I have one, it's pretty good; I use it all the time.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 10:32:47 pm
content: The OP question is very valid no matter what the product is or it's performance. I continue to be surprised at how cheaply products are available from China. Even if the unit is built with free labour, the materials and factory premises are unavoidable overheads that must be covered. If you buy a cheap set of test leads they will often cost you around $5 to $10 so how is it that a meter, including the same type of cheap leads costs so little ? It is truly amazing that the Chinese manuafacturers can turn a profit even if the unit is a POS at the end of the day. Consider the process:1. Design meter using cheap (?) labour2. Prototype unit using cheap (?) labour3. Debug design4. Produce PCB masks5. Produce Plastics molds and labels6. Manufacture plastic case and PCB's7. Source cheap components to populate PCB8. Populate PCB using chreap unskilled labour9. Package product and despatch to wholesaler at OEM price10. Wholesaler ships product around the world in bulk on cheapest shipping lines and routes11. Wholesaler distributes product to retailer at wholesale price12. Retailer sells product to public at retail with around 15%to 100% mark-up to cover business overheadsAnd yet some how the OEM, Wholesaler and Retailer still manage to turn a profit with the product retailing at $9.99 or even $2.99 !My fear relating to this situation is the day when China sees that it is THE major OEM in the world and decides to increase it's product prices to more realistic levels.... we'll be stuffed then for sure as Western electronics production has been moving to China for years now. You don't need to go to war to conquer countries these days....countries and their economies can be controlled by those who supply what we most need, be it oil, timber, water or electronics in the form of computers or everyday essentials that form parts of our world.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 11:03:54 pm
content: The China ... The China ... The China ... The China ... this that ...Behind every company in China , there is Europeans and Americans stock holders .Its that simple !!The true cost of the cheap leads , less than 0.15$ , every time that we buy from ebay cheap rubbish,the Chinese sellers they laugh at our face ... Yes we buy in retail the leads of 0.15$ at the price of 3-4$ .This stealing , keeps happening, and motivates more and more stock holders to invest on it.But if an branded company from USA or EU , offers the better leads for 30$ , this is stealing too !!

author: Lance
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 11:07:41 pm
content: Harbour Freight is like the walmart of tools from what I've heard.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2011, 11:30:01 pm
content: It suggests the cost to make something is much lower that we think.Consider the Fluke 87V, its considered a bargain at $200+ as discounted at $300+ new. List price is $400. But the cost to make it is likely far smaller, as its sold in bulk at alibaba for ~$50-100/each, FOB to International locations. That means US retailers could be getting the device for sale for an even lower price or higher profits because container ship shipping can be very costly for low volume.http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/112072505/2010_FLUKE_87_V_87V_TRUE.htmlQuote from: Aurora on January 17, 2011, 10:32:47 pm

author: AJ4OM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 12:20:14 am
content: Quote from: saturation on January 17, 2011, 11:30:01 pmIt would be nice to get a new fluke 87v meter for $50. Group buy anyone?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 12:45:33 am
content: Quote from: AJ4OM on January 18, 2011, 12:20:14 amMessages like that it was expected to come in seconds ..What most people need after those news, especially the ones who had pay so far the full price,are one glass of brandy , so to not had an hart attack .

author: AJ4OM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 12:58:47 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on January 18, 2011, 12:45:33 amWell, even people that have paid full price before might like a low price backup.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 01:12:54 am
content: Quote from: AJ4OM on January 18, 2011, 12:58:47 amI do not like to take the smile of your face , but even me the hansom Greek with the blue eyes,I can not get even an screw made by Fluke , from USA to Greece .. due sales regulations .No one knows if those sellers are restricted about the international sales , and what this restrictions are.Not to say , that at those sales you had to prepay , and the importation cost, its up to you .And so you need to calculate the price by the new total cost, what ever this is, or end up to be.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 02:38:35 am
content: For the average consumer, there are two prices which count - the cheapest, and the most expensive. It's not the fault of the Chinese business owners who sell the cheap product - they're just capitalizing on a huge opportunity.The only time I've ever seen product quality go up consistently is when it's mandated. That's the reason that Fluke even exists. They've made their money by producing product that the government or industry has specced to meet regulations.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 06:34:22 am
content: Quote from: AJ4OM on January 18, 2011, 12:20:14 am

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 07:51:53 am
content: I will relish the day china rises it's prices, then we in europe will have jobs again !

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 12:39:59 pm
content: Yes, its a good way to show that after a product is made, added costs by government rules and middle men make up the price you finally see in your store shelves. I have bought items that were shipped, up front cost far below retail, and by the time I got it in my hands in the Pacific, it increased the final price 150%, due to non-bulk shipping.It also shows how profitable shipping can be, once you amortize the total cost of ownership of ships.I can only surmise, Harbor Freight has superb connections at the storage docks, thus "harbor" "freight".Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on January 18, 2011, 01:12:54 am

author: CafeLogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 12:51:06 pm
content: The thing that cracks me up about Harbor Freight is how they always try to trick you with their in-house brand names like "Chicago Electric" and "Central Pneumatic". Like I'm not going to know that it's Chinese when I paid $50 for a mig welder and the manual is in chinglish.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 05:28:06 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 18, 2011, 07:51:53 amYou can dream. I think more manufacturing will go to Arfica when China raises its prices.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 06:09:28 pm
content: Just to clear up some confusion , the above link ( seller ) its from Indonesia ..That is just another part of this world.The interesting part , is how much money the American Fluke charged for those meters to him ?( factory price ) .

author: Longhair
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 06:38:12 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 18, 2011, 05:28:06 pmFinding a reliable labor force will be a problem.

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 07:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 18, 2011, 07:51:53 amBy the time we wait for that, I think we will loose many of our know-how... That's the sad thing, but even another reason for us to learn making things as many as we can.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2011, 08:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: scrat on January 18, 2011, 07:14:35 pmI had be there , but all those that I had learn are not in use today ...And simple Zerox ( photocopier ) actually I had work for Panasonic , that needed High voltage probes and three large books so to be adjusted, today has an "auto diagnosis board " .You can not fight that..Today , you need an electronic engineer , and one robotic system PCB soldering + other small details, so to start production.