Chinese Multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 06:00:47 pm
content: First timer here,This is a great forum to learn electronics. Nice meeting you guys.I have a Fluke 73 for like forever. A friend of mine always bring me small electronic gadgets for me to fix. I check mostly voltage and continuity. Nothing fancy. Sometimes I want to check for mA. The Fluke 73 can't do it. I can try to check mA with the 10A plug. But the reading will just jump up and down. So, I check Amazon to see what meters they sell there.I come across this AmazonCommerical 90DM160. This is a CEM DT-916N for $27. It comes with everything I need except a bag. (I really want a free bag.) But it only has a 1-year warranty.https://www.amazon.com/AmazonCommercial-Count-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B07VY421KJ/ref=pd_sbs_328_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07VY421KJ&pd_rd_r=448f80c7-6068-4757-8e86-2945d573a2ec&pd_rd_w=VMNsM&pd_rd_wg=xysrs&pf_rd_p=7cd8f929-4345-4bf2-a554-7d7588b3dd5f&pf_rd_r=JFAAJ1X2ZB8VG4RB0Z7Y&psc=1&refRID=JFAAJ1X2ZB8VG4RB0Z7YI also checking out the Greenlee DM-65 for $50. (23 clams more) It is a 2012 model. It comes with a Limited Lifetime Warranty. I do want a longer warranty.https://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-65-CATIV600V-Ranging-Multimeter/dp/B007ORQ7HW/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XSE38PH2A3BK5R216TXABoth are made in china.I don't use the meter everyday but I do want a meter that works when I dig it out from my garage. (like my Fluke).Would you guy give me some pointer for a cheap meter please?Muchas gracias!

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 07:53:50 pm
content: You could build a fused current shunt to plug into your Fluke. Works out cheaper and more reliable but if you really need a new cheap multimeter I can understand that.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 03:59:55 am
content: One time my friend brought me a digital clock that uses a 5V USB cellphone charger. The display was not working. I first checked the charger to see if it put out 5V. It was ok. I then checked if there was a voltage going in to the display. There was a voltage. So, I wanted to check if there was enough power (mA) going to the display.I don't know how to check this with the Fluke 73. The Fluke 73 does not have a mA plug. That is why I want to buy another meter. Something cheap, reliable, and can last for years from China. I used to have a meter that was made in Japan but it only last for couple years.I didn't know how to check the mA with the Fluke. So, I started by running 1.5V and started to increase the voltage directly to the display until it lighted up. The display lighted up as I increased the voltage. So, I knew the USB charger was not putting enough power to power the clock. I ended up replacing the 5V USB charger with a 12V power supply. The clock worked again.I don't know what a shunt is.You saying I can check mA with the 10A plug by putting something in between the thing and the meter?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 07:37:04 am
content: Bob, recommendations for DMM's are more than there are days of the year.If you want something to take the lion's share of the work away from your Fluke and still have a dependable meter get the likes of a Fluke 15B+.https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-FLUKE-15B-F15B-Digital-Multimeter-Meter-with-LED-Backlight/223660992797?hash=item34133be91d:g:zL8AAOSwPsBa8SF8

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 08:50:10 am
content: Thanks!The 15B+ is very nice. It has all the same functions I want from the Amazon 90DM160 and the Greenlee DM-65.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 09:27:49 am
content: Thanks all for your pointer.I think I will get the AmazonCommerical 90DM160 for $27 bucks.This Amazon one is in my budget. If it stops working in a year, I can just trash it and buy another one.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 04:35:23 pm
content: Both the Amazon 90DM160 and the Fluke 15b+ use a tiny chip. The Fluke 117 uses a big chip.Does using a bigger chip make the reading better? One has a tiny chip with the black thingie glued to the board. The other has a big chip mounted to the board.They are all surface mounted. Assuming they did not put any copy protection to the PC Board. It seems to me the small chip has more connections than the big chip. The big chip only has a hand full of pin connected.Danken!

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 06:42:43 pm
content: Wow! Thanks Blueskull!I always wonder why they glue the chip on the board in many gadgets. I always thought they use the glue to cover the marking on the chip. So, people don't know what chip they use. If I remove the packaging from the big chip, the chip inside may be just as small as the small chip as well. So, the Amazon 90DM160 using a small chip may be more efficient than ones that use a big general purpose chip since the small chip has less moving parts.So, bigger does not mean better.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 07:26:05 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 28, 2020, 09:01:08 amThe 101 doesn't do current and the OP wants mA.The Greenlee looks good to me for $49.Quote from: blueskull on February 28, 2020, 09:01:08 amSo?

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 07:34:49 pm
content: The last thing i would be worried about is warranties on a $27 meter. Not likely to use it anyway, most of this stuff is either no good out of the box in which case you return it, or it works for years. My experience anyway.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2020, 07:31:29 pm
content: I decided to get the Greenlee DM-65. Not the Amazon meter. The only reason to pick the Greenlee is the "Lifetime Limited Warranty". The DM-65 is made by a company called All Sun. The date on the packaging is dated 2011.I play with the DM-65 for a while. It sucks compared to my 20-yr old Fluke 73. The plastic smells bad and the screen is terrible. The letters are a little bit bigger but I have to look it straight otherwise the letters are all washed out. The backlight does not help at all. The letters from the Fluke are dark and clean from any angle. The leads are just bad.I thought the meter was not working. It turned out the leads had so much coating. It did not make any good connection. I cleaned the leads with alcohol. I could not clean the plugs. There was a plastic bumper inside the plug. It is better but the connection is still not good.Otherwise, I can check mA now. Yeeeeaaaa!I was wondering why my La Crosse BC-900 charger took so long to charge my batteries. The screen said 200mA. It turned out it was putting out only 20mA.

author: CDaniel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2020, 07:54:09 pm
content: If you are serious in what you are doing , a cheap chinese meter is not what you need .Unfortunatly many people want cheap stuff

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2020, 08:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: CDaniel on March 01, 2020, 07:54:09 pmCheap is good. However, I prefer free better.More picturesRadio Shack Micronta 22-212 UL ListedMeguro MDM-1180 No rating at allFluke 73 UL ListedGreenlee DM-65 "Confirms" to UL

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2020, 11:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on March 01, 2020, 07:31:29 pmI have asked this question before on the forum wrt to other Greenlee meters (specifically rebadged Brymen) and never got an answer where it states publicly on Greenlee's website in terms of how many years lifetime is defined as.For example, some modern Fluke meters that have "lifetime warranty" have clearly defined terms and conditions in the user manual that clearly state the number of years the meter is under warranty DESPITE the wording lifetime.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 12:38:37 am
content: This is what Greenlee printed in the user guide.Lifetime means "useful life". Just like the transmission oil in your car. Many cars are now said to have "Lifetime" transmission oil. So, if the oil is good for 100 miles, "Lifetime" means 100 miles. Lifetime for Fluke is 10 years of "useful life". Fluke is nice enough to tell you their definition.I understand what you say. All these warranty they want me to believe actually means nothing. Whether it is 1 year from the Amazon meter, 3 years from Amprobe, or whatever they printed in the user guide, there is no law to make them give me a new meter.This would be nice if they could replace the meter since they put a huge label saying "Lifetime Warranty" on the box. It is really up to them to make their customers happy. So, people will not bad mouth their company.Lifetime Limited WarrantyGreenlee Textron Inc. warrants to the original purchaser of these goods for use that these products will be free fromdefects in workmanship and material for their useful life, excepting normal wear and abuse. This warranty is subjectto the same terms and conditions contained in Greenlee Textron Inc.’s standard one-year limited warranty.For all Test Instrument repairs, contact Customer Service at 800-435-0786 and request a Return Authorization.For items not covered under warranty (such as items dropped, abused, etc.), a repair cost quote is availableupon request.Note: Prior to returning any test instrument, please check replaceable batteries or make sure the battery is atfull charge.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 04:36:38 am
content: What is the internal resistance of the DM-65 in the mA mode? It's possible it will have an impact on the charging circuit.The Fluke 73 can measure down to 10mA in the 10A mode. The internal resistance in this mode will be very low. 200mA should be easy to resolve in this case and shouldn't impact the charging circuit. The DM-65 might be similar in the 10A mode so could be worth giving a try as well.I'd suggest picking up another meter to help with measurement verification. Older used Greenlee, Fluke, and Amprobe meters are worth considering. Maybe a new Brymen BM231.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 04:55:31 am
content: Quote from: J-R on March 02, 2020, 04:36:38 amHow do I check the internal resistance? Turn the dial to mA and check the resistance with another meter? I don't know how to check mA with the Fluke 73. The reading just jump up and down all over the places. Same with the DM-65. If I try to check mA with the 10A plug, the reading will jump up and down.I find a picture of a All Sun meter that looks exactly like the DM-65 from the All Sun site.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 05:25:43 am
content: Yes, use another meter to measure it in each mode. As an exercise it would be worth checking mA, 10A and also DC V. This will tell you what the meter will do to the circuit/device you connect it to. In general you could expect to see below 1 Ohm for 10A, above 1 Ohm for mA and about 10M Ohms for DC V.I have a similar charger and had no issue using various DMMs in the 10A mode to detect the 200mA (0.20A) charge current going to the battery.Just to clarify, on the DM-65 when using the 10A plug you are using the A switch position and have it set to DC A not AC A? And the DMM is in series with the battery and charger, not in parallel?

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 06:18:37 am
content: Thanks JR!The DM-65 can also check micro amp.micro Amp is 51.7mA is 2.210A plug is 0.2DC V is 7.75 M\$\Omega\$I also have a EBL-999 10-bay charger. The label says 270mA. The meter shows me ~200mA. So, I guess this AA charger is ok.The BC-900 is switchable from 200mA to 1A. The default is 200mA. The meter shows me only ~20mA. This is possible that the BC-900 starts at 20mA for couple hours before it cranks up the power. Just maybe. Another possibility is that I use too many wires to hook up all the stuffs in series with too much resistance, the BC-900 may think the battery is full.And yes, all connection and dial position are correct.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 07:06:11 pm
content: More pictures for this Chinese meter.The green rubber boot is heavy. The meter itself is quite light.The inside looks good to me. Compared to all the gadgets my buddy asked me to fix, this meter looks state of the art.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 07:13:03 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on March 02, 2020, 05:25:43 amAh! I have 2 battery chargers that put out 500mA. I test the current with the 10A plug from both meters. Both meters can display ~500mA from these 2 chargers ok. So, I guess 200mA is too weak for the 10A plug to check.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 08:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on March 02, 2020, 07:13:03 pmBoth meters should have the resolution and accuracy to display 0.20A, but if that other charger is only providing 0.02A, then it could be tricky to get a meaningful reading in that range.If you have a DC power supply with current limiting you could run some tests to get a better idea of what each meter can actually do. As an example you could set the DM-65 to the mA range, the Fluke to the 10A range and then run the power supply current slowly up from zero with everything in series. Between 0 and 500mA seems reasonable.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2020, 08:58:05 pm
content: Thanks for sharing the photographs of this DMM. I was always curious to see how well built this equipment is.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 08:53:35 am
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on March 02, 2020, 07:06:11 pmNo surprise. Greenlee seem to know how to choose a meter for rebranding.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 10:05:18 am
content: Brand and cost aside, the insides of most of these moderno meters is getting way too small for comfortWith a combo of aging, temperature extremes and -guaranteed to happen- drops on concrete or tiles, causing nano cracks on the brittle lead free bs soldering,they will become unreliable, intermittent and pretty much unfixable.I've seen it already, a 'brand name withheld' meter, new in the box, with half the functions DOA or way out of spec.The replacement sent was spot on perfect, and highly possible from the same batch run.Even with the working replacement as a reference, it's too much of an unpaid challenge or pride bs to fix the knackered one, and then stuff about calibrating it,assuming one even gets that far without schematics, microscope, and patienceThe exiled de-crustified AVOmeter has been seeing some use lately,seen in a window refection displaying the vintage Finger at the modern smart meters when I'm not lookingI don't know how many owners had it before me, nor how it survived years of collegetard abuse before them,but it's in perfect spec decades later on all the ranges, including the 3kv AC and DC hookup

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 05:54:15 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 03, 2020, 10:05:18 amI hope not for this meter. I paid 50 clams for it. I want my 50 clams last forever.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2020, 06:25:15 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 03, 2020, 10:05:18 amIt might soaked up too much radiation during WW2 from the blasts. It has mutated with super power, and it is part of the Justice League. Used by Captain Atom to troubleshoot the Watchtower.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2020, 09:54:46 am
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on March 03, 2020, 06:25:15 pmCaptain VOMit!LOL, you may be right, with no batteries required it glows sometimesMaybe there's a power stone hidden in there that Thanos wasn't worded up about

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2020, 08:50:20 am
content: Quote from: bobcat2000 on March 02, 2020, 12:38:37 amThat seems absurd. As soon as the product fails, it is no longer useful, has hence reached the end of its "useful life", and is hence out of warranty? Thank you very much...

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2020, 05:14:01 pm
content: This is the language from Fluke. It is better written. If the dial failed and the broken metal inside causes damage, they won't cover it. If it is before 1997, good luck. I am guessing, meters made after 1997 are probably made in China. They made them so cheap. That may be why Fluke can afford to give you a new one if you bug them.Industrial products limited Lifetime WarrantyLifetime is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996). The warranty does not cover manuals, fuses, disposable batteries, damage from neglect, misuse, contamination, alteration, accident or abnormal conditions of operation or handling, including failures caused by use outside of the product's specifications, or normal wear and tear of mechanical components. This warranty covers the original purchaser only and is not transferable. This warranty covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs). To establish original ownership proof of purchase is required (20, 70, 80, 170, 180 and 280 models). THE FOLLOWING PRODUCTS ARE INTENDED FOR SALE AND USE IN THE CHINESE AND HIGH GROWTH MARKETS ONLY AND AVAILABLE FOR WARRANTY PROTECTION ONLY IF SOLD, PURCHASED AND USED SOLELY FROM AN AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTOR WITHIN THESE TERRITORIES: 101, 106, 107, 15B+, 17B+ and 18B+. THE WARRANTY FOR THESE PRODUCTS IS VOID IF THE PRODUCT IS SOLD, PURCHASED OR USED OUTSIDE OF THESE TERRITORIES, OR FROM UNAUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS AND NO WARRANTY COVERAGE, SERVICE, REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT WILL BE PROVIDED.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 12:42:51 am
content: I have over a dozen multi-meters. Some are nice HP kind, some are Fluke, some are old Japanese analog, and some are recent purchase from China via Amazon.To me, there is a difference between measuring and checking. For measuring, I want my reading to be accurate and repeatable. For that purpose, about half of mine will qualify. For checking, I'm trying to see if there is a voltage around what it is supposed to be. Let that be current, resistance, whatever. If it's 12V today and 12.5V tomorrow, I'm not concerned. For that purpose, any of them will do. I usually pick cheaper ones because I don't have to care.I have good luck with Amazon purchases. If something breaks within a year and if it was sold by Amazon, not a third party, they are usually good about covering it, despite its formal policy. I just ask nicely and they respond in like kind.I just wouldn't expect that much from meters that cost less than 50 dollars. I'd probably just throw it away if I can't fix it quickly myself. Those "life time warranty" is worthless if you have to ship it at your cost. It's worthless if there are fees. It's particularly worthless if company has changed name or no longer there.Those are my practices. Yes, that's how I ended up drawer full of meters.

author: bobcat2000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 08:35:03 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 08, 2020, 12:42:51 amWell said. I used to be able to bring the thing back to the store and the store would take care the warranty. There were like 4 electronic stores near my house. They all went under and closed for good. Those days are long gone.Greenlee seems to be a good company. Looks like they are also going under and being sold. I originally also wanted to get an Amprobe AM-510 or 520. They are also around $50 dollars with more features than the Greenlee but only offer a 1-yr warranty. So, let take a chance with the Greenlee that offers a lifetime warranty. It sounds better than a 1-yr.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 05:13:05 pm
content: A flip side of this is Chinese extreme efficiency makes these multi-meters very inexpensive. In 1970s, even a simple analog meters used to cost $200. That was a lot of money back then. Now, full featured one can be had for $50. But I don't expect it will safely do 1000V or be accurate. (that's why we pay $200 for Fluke!)I no longer think multi-meters are "which one" and have just one or two decision.As long as you are not using them in extreme conditions, the worst it can happen is you break one and you are out a meter. I'd just get another, if taking a quick lock doesn't resolve it. With Amazon, you'll have it the next day. With life time warranty, of course.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 06:55:15 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 08, 2020, 05:13:05 pmOr even $25.Accuracy isn't a problem with these meters. They're usually bang-on.Can they measure 1000V safely? Maybe if you put them in volts mode and follow safety procedures like wearing gloves, hearing protection, etc. Something you should also be doing even if you own a Fluke.All the MOVs and huge fuses and stuff in Fluke meters are there for when you mess up and try to measure 1000V in Ohms or Amps mode. They don't do anything much in volts mode.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 07:04:48 pm
content: I had a near death experience with 1000 volts. My colleague had the same with 2500 volts.My procedure has been to turn off, unplug, discharge THEN connect the probe. Step back and, make sure I know where my hands are, turn it back on to read. I do this with any meter and any test instruments when more than 240V is involved. I am a professionally trained and licensed electrician. I don't take high voltage lightly.My experience is mixed with inexpensive meters. Some are good. Some aren't. But nearly all of them are quite passable.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 07:40:49 pm
content: I know several people who bought the UNI-T UT210E clamp all about the same time. So far, two of them have had switch failures. My BK also suffered from a switch failure.One problem is if the switch starts to fail and causes errors in the readings and the user is not aware of it. Worse is if you make decisions based on bad data.From the little bit of switch life testing I have done, there appears to be a pretty significant difference in the reliability of the various brands. Shown below is a low cost ANENG meter and fairly expensive, feature poor, Fluke 17B+ after 50,000 full rotations.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 07:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 08, 2020, 06:55:15 pmThe problem with these meters is poor sockets quality resutilng in intermittent contacts with probes. This is Much worse than inadequate safety rating.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 08:06:29 pm
content: You are right. Connectors can be iffy. I know some of mine are bit on loose side. I also have one that socket isn't deep enough and mating part doesn't have the outside sleeve.What I really despise about those meter is that manufacturers and sellers will tell you they are safe for 1000V. That's false advertising. That's dangerous. That's irresponsible. WE know better but those things are sold cheaply for public consumption who may or may not be aware. Things can go wrong in a "flash." Looking at PC board design and type of fuse that's inside, there is no way that can adequately protect users.Oh well. They are cheap. Buyers be aware....FLUKE! I love my Fluke clamp meter.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 08:22:05 pm
content: Agreed, for handheld meters, I can always trust my Fluke. I don’t want to go through the question “is my DMM good enough for the use case” or “Is the calibration still holding”. The Fluke is a no brainer, I use a 375 FC for current, and 179 for other handheld tasks.For the cheap Harbor Freights and Extechs, I never use them on main voltage.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 08:34:13 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2020, 07:40:49 pmHaving purchased a few cheapies in the last months, I can tell that a few of them don't need the 50000 rotation count to start showing problems. The worst offender is the Richmeters RM102Pro I have (Aneng AN113D, Zoyi ZT102A), which easily allows setting the switch half way between ranges - also, tapping the knob enough times shows a rare noise on the measurement. This meter is mechanically very similar to the popular AN8008 and AN8009.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 08:42:55 pm
content: I would imagine for the UNI-T clamps, we are in the couple thousand cycles. Then again, that Keysight meter's detent spring failed at a few thousand cycles as well so I can't say it's a case where you get what you pay for. I expected a brand like Keysight to hold up as well as the Brymens in all of my tests.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 10:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2020, 08:42:55 pmI still wonder if the mechanical failure on the Keysight was a defective unit. After all, it was breakage and not wear.Given their lack of response, we can only wonder (unless you get one of their flagship U1282A on this month's giveaway AND is willing to put it to the test).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2020, 11:05:23 pm
content: One thing that should be clear by now is that I am willing to run pretty much any test that I feel may provide some insight into how these meters compare, which includes destructive tests. I will pretty much run every handheld meter I have access to, outside of the Fluke 189 my friend gave me.You are correct that the detent spring did not last long enough to detect any visible wear, and also that Keysight has never contacted me about it. Also, Keysight has never responded to any emails I sent them.If Keysight wanted me to repeat that test on a different meter, I would have no problems donating the time. They would need to provide two of them. One for transient testing, the other for the life cycle. Of course I would make the results public again. The channel is pretty small so there may not be any perceived value in it.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2020, 12:41:31 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2020, 11:05:23 pmDid you ever contact them about a warranty claim or replacement ?, perhaps they might take more notice if you went through their regular product support channels.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2020, 01:10:35 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on March 09, 2020, 12:41:31 amMy attempts to contact Keysight were prior to procuring the meter. Their lack of any response is why I never bought another to look at. I knew there would be no support.I wouldn't expect any warranty to cover damages as a result of my testing.There have only been a few times I have contacted companies for possible replacement parts. Once was when I was testing the Brymen BM869s. In that case, Brymen wanted to see the test and offered to repair or replace it if the meter was damaged. Of all the brands I have looked at, Brymen seems the most willing to stand behind their products. When I damaged the TPI/Summit 194, I wrote TPI to see if I could acquire a replacement controller IC. They offered to replace the meter but I declined. The only other time was when I damaged the prototype 121GW, I wrote Dave to see if he could obtain parts to repair it. To be clear, I wasn't asking for handouts in these cases and would have been willing to pay the companies for the parts and shipping.With the low end meters, they are seldom cost effective to repair so they are recycled. Later on, I was running higher quality meters which would have enough protection to save their custom parts making them repairable. In the case of the Keysight meter, it was recycled just like so many other low end meters I have looked at.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 01:54:37 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 08, 2020, 07:40:49 pmToo funny!! So yesterday a third UT210E started having intermittent switch problems. Again, it seems like moderate use. It's really a shame that UNI-T didn't invest in better materials. I would gladly have paid more to get a higher quality product.

author: CDaniel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:20:41 am
content: And then how do you think a chinese company could compete with a "normal" company ? This is their mindset , to produse knock-offs , I don't want to go into politics but everything has a root cause .Many times you are happy to pay much less ... if the quality is not an issue and the product is not critical , but for something important I would never trust them .

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 01:14:10 pm
content: Quote from: CDaniel on March 13, 2020, 07:20:41 amNot sure why you would mention politics. The vast majority of handheld DMMs are now produced in China. Some of the most robust meters I have looked at were from China. I have considered them the "normal" for many years, not just for DMMs.In the case of the UT210E, I am not aware of another clamp like it (DC 1mA res with display). All I am saying is if this were a higher quality product, I would gladly pay for it.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 02:04:59 pm
content: Quote from: CDaniel on March 13, 2020, 07:20:41 amThat's a bit much for a country that was building massive things while most westerners were still banging rocks together.Quote from: CDaniel on March 13, 2020, 07:20:41 amFor something "important" I'd only trust a tool that I personally use on a daily basis.ie. I'd trust my daily driver Chinese meter over a random Fluke 87V with unknown history.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 05:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 13, 2020, 01:14:10 pmWell, there is:https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/clamp-meters/fluke-369-fcWould you pay $800 for a ( better quality + Fluke markup ) product?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 11:55:31 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on March 13, 2020, 05:54:01 pmI like the small form factor of the UT210E and really don't need beyond the 1mA. Personally, I have no use for any features besides the clamp but I've had many people tell me they use the other functions. I would gladly pay double the cost of the UT210E to have better mechanical components. Of course, that's only one data point.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 01:21:25 am
content: My question is: to get better quality on the same equipment, would just double the price be enough to have it? I really don't know but, in my experience with manufacturing of other products, the price deltas of better spec'd mechanical parts quickly add up (although I haven't had the experience to use a full custom mold like Uni-T does). In my case, it was mostly due to the fact some materials/requirements required custom work.Regarding alternatives to the clamp meter itself, the Amprobe AC50A is the same form factor of the UT210 but has 10uA of resolution. It really looks sweet and it costs the same as six or seven bottles of hand sanitizer (at running prices of these times of shortage, of course)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 02:26:46 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on March 15, 2020, 01:21:25 amhttps://www.amprobe.com/product/ac50a/It wouldn't be useful to me, at least for the reason I kept the UT210E. I want that 1mA DC resolution for testing leakage currents in automotive. Of course, that feature has found other uses as well. I changed mine to support a higher count and with the higher BW and scope output, that meter sees a bit of use around my lab.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 02:37:02 am
content: Maybe something like the Extech 380950 would be better but I really like the wider jaw on the UT210E.So far the switch has been the failure. Maybe just better contacts and plating on the PCB would solve it. They appear to go intermittent.A few others:General Technologies Corp GTC CM100Extech 380942BSIDE see linkhttps://www.amazon.com/1mA-DC-Clamp-Meter-Temperature/dp/B07MXDW677/ref=pd_di_sccai_2/136-0571372-6115857?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07MXDW677&pd_rd_r=bbfaf8e8-2ab1-46a9-a8c5-de71a2ebe7d4&pd_rd_w=SwPS5&pd_rd_wg=sea7a&pf_rd_p=e532f109-986a-4c2d-85fc-16555146f6b4&pf_rd_r=DAFA26W5KH5YT6CEKCNR&psc=1&refRID=DAFA26W5KH5YT6CEKCNR

author: CDaniel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2020, 06:29:30 pm
content: For AC current you need good bandwidth not just that cheap crappy true-rms 500Hz-1KHz or so , inrush capability for motors ... and I doubt that 1mA by jaws resolution can be trusted in such a price range meter .The same old problem as with a normal multimeter ...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 01:10:46 pm
content: Working more on the electronics side than electrical, my needs for AC current normally exceed what I would find with a hand held meter. I will use a LEM sensor, Pearson transformer or an old 1960's current probe that I rebuilt. These get me from the 100s of KHz well into the 10s of MHz. Of course, I am using a scope with these.For electrical work, I normally use that HIOKI I've shown.With the UT210E, I basically just use it for DC current. The one I modified has a 3dB point around 100KHz now which obviously requires the scope to use but its still pretty limited. It was more of an exorcise in basic analog design. The stock meter works great with the 1mA res. Like any other DC hall type, it drifts around but for the measurements I make, it really doesn't matter.Like I said, I've been pleased with the product but would pay for a higher quality version of it. Three switches failing in 2-3 years is not good but for the $40, it's hard to fault it.Back when I bought the UT181A, I would say the same was true. The cost for these now is more than it's worth to me, even if they improved it. Or, it would have to have some major improvements. Too bad really, as of all the UNI-T products I have looked at, it is by far my favorite handheld DMM. Overall, I would say it's in my top 5.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 01:25:55 pm
content: HIOKI is a good stuff. It's basically a Japanese "Fluke quality" meter. That and Sanwa used to rule the Japanese market. Mine are both 40+ years old. Recently, I saw a fake on eBay. It's that good.Of course mine being that old, they are missing safety features available today, like protective sleeve around jacks.By the way, one on the left was a kit. I made it as part of high school project. One on the right was purchased before that. Leaky battery required some retrofit work but still works very well. It was almost 200 dollars in late 1970s money.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 02:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 17, 2020, 01:25:55 pm...and more expensive than the Fluke!

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 05:09:34 pm
content: Wow, thanks for sharing, that brings back some old memory. I have a Sanwa YX-360TR I bought back in the late 70's, it was my first multimeter when all my friends were having Simpson's, and I would go and show how it measures the hfe in transistors. I still recall my friend took me to the electronics hobby store to shop for the multimeter and other components, too bad we don't have them any longer.It still works 100% and I sometimes bring it out to use it just for old time's sake.