My soldering iron sucks - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:18:14 pm
content: hey guysok well i bought i cheapish temperature controlled soldering iron from maplins, well its maplins own brand. i think its the N78AR. Well basicially it is just awful. Im using it to try and remove the old dc jack on my laptop motherboard and it dont even heat up hot enough to melt the solder properly.Anyone else ever used this soldering iron??And any reccommendations for a new iron with temp control that aint crap and can use it for solder removal easy enough? And isnt to expensive

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:43:13 pm
content: Have you tested the iron with wire solder to see if it works for typical small solder joints? Making fresh joints is always the first test for an iron before attempting to unsolder things.What about the temperature setting? The requirement varies between leaded and lead free solder. Lead free solder has a higher melting point.How about the power rating of the iron? When desoldering it can be necessary to have a very good power output due to heat soak on the board, especially if there are large copper areas.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:48:10 pm
content: The soldering iron is a 50w - 150 to 450 degree and i got it turned up max. The solder i used to test with is a lead free silver, ag 4%, sn 95.5%, cu 0.5%, 1mm diam. Which i also bought from maplins

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:52:15 pm
content: I looked at the manual for that iron and it appears to be an older model that was not recommended for lead free solder, however it should still work for lead free if the temperature is turned up high.Are you saying the solder won't melt if you hold it to the tip of the iron? If so, it is badly malfunctioning.By the way, if you are starting out soldering it is much easier to use traditional tin/lead solder rather than the lead free kind. Lead free solder is much more difficult to work with.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: stewmath on December 06, 2011, 08:18:14 pmIt is a rebadged Zhongdi ZD-98. Zhongdi stuff is not top of the line stuff, but it usually works reasonable. Several of their models are rebadged under many brands and are popular in Europe, e.g. the ZD-937 or ZD-931. Your ZD-98 is probably the lowest of their temperature controlled irons, but with their typical 48W handpiece it should get hot enough.My guess is your soldering/desoldering technique is lacking. E.g. you might have lots of oxide on the tip, maybe build up by running the iron too hot, not properly tinning the tip and doing all sorts of mechanical abuse while trying to get the soldering joints hot.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 08:59:15 pm
content: The iron will take ages to melt the solder if i touch it on the end, literally like seconds. And then when it does melt it just builds up a ball on the end of the solder wire.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:04:47 pm
content: Hiya,Much depends upon your budget. I recently bought PACE soldering irons but they are expensive and tips are costly as you have to buy a pack of 5 !I purchased a Hakko clone '937D' temperature controlled iron a few months back as a stop gap measure. That iron performed well for me and all tips and spare parts are very cheapThere is a cheaper 937 and 936 model without the display, but I like the temperature to be clearly visible. The iron has performed well and though it is no ERSA, METCAL or PACE, it is suitable for hobby use.Take a look on ebay and see what China has to offer but I purchased my unit in the UK for only £36 + p&p which seemed a very good deal indeed.Mine is here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-TEMPERATUR-CONTROL-UK-/150573392783?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item230edfa38fItem no. 150573392783Its branded W.E.P but is the same as products from other Chinese 'brands' like Aoyue.I also purchased a set of different tips from china for around £12 delivered but they are available individually very cheaply. Just look for 'HAKKO tips'. The supplied tip is too small for anything but SMD work and even then its not ideal. For your needs took for something in the range of 1.6mm to 3mmYou could also consider buying one of these if you intend to get seriously into modern electronics... it provides all you need for basic workhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEP-852D-2-1-SMD-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-UK-/150691164421?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2315e4b105Item no. 150691164421And only £80 delivered for free withon the UK

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: stewmath on December 06, 2011, 08:59:15 pmOxide on the tip because of not properly treating it.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:09:04 pm
content: Aurora, cheers i like the look of the all in one and its within my budget.@boredatwork, how do i get the oxide off? Its a new iron and this is the first time ive used it to try and melt this solder.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:14:20 pm
content: Just to add my 2c/p this is the iron i have (from this seller too)http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atten-AT938D-Professional-60W-Soldering-Iron-Station-/290640918852?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43ab8c7944#ht_2467wt_980Not much more expensive, better build quality than the W.E.P. units (i believe) and it allows you to store your "favourite" temps which can be useful. And it has a pretty blue display

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:49:02 pm
content: Yep I bought one of those recently from Maplins for about a Tenner. It's ok but not that good for heat sensitive parts. also it comes with a conical tip...useless. I only use it on none critical items (sweating on a mains lead or heating up large mass sockets etc) so can't understand why you say it is not getting hot unless the Iron or Tip is worn out' its poorest feature is it tends to get too hot. Pics might help or check out some of the soldering vids on youtube.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 09:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: stewmath on December 06, 2011, 08:18:14 pmYes, it's what I've got on my bench at the moment. It's adequate, if not great; most of my soldering-related issues are due to poor technique, rather than the iron. Yours certainly sounds unhealthy if it can't even melt 1mm solder immediately at top whack; I presume you're giving it sufficient time to warm up!You might want to think about grabbing a set of replacement tips -- they come in a pack of three, two conical and one chisel (uh, screwdriver?) -- and there are two reasons I suggest that: in case the one you've got is damaged, and because I found using the chisel tip made it much easier to get heat in the right place. Alternatively take it back and see if you can show it to someone in the shop (this might depend on who's in: there are some staff in my local one who actually know things and are worth talking to, and some who just have rather vacant stares etc.); for a fifteen quid iron they might even just grab another off the shelf, they tend to have 'em by the cartload here.That said, I am looking to upgrade mine at some point -- to something that's a bit quicker to warm up and has a wider range of tips, ideally!

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 10:51:42 pm
content: yeah i do like the chisel tips and this iron doesnt have one, does just have the crappy standard point one. I could put it down to technique as its been a long time since ive use an iron, maybe 6 years since university. But im sure it aint technique not bein able to melt some solder when the temp is turned up full. (and yeah left plenty of time for it to heat up)

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 12:13:05 am
content: If I remember correctly the temp control is very similar to a light dimmer, 240v to the heater with a triac switching the load depending on the pot setting. 2 choices1) Take it back and get a decent iron (my best advice)2) Check the pot / triac for correct operation. Just remember you are playing with mains voltage.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 07:23:50 am
content: It sounds to me the author did not tin the new tip?

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:05:10 am
content: QuoteI tried, but the solder wouldnt melt for ages, then when it does it just falls off in a gloop.

author: vtl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:29:36 am
content: Is the tip clean? Should be shiny before you even attempt to solder anything. Wipe the tip on the wet sponge and tin the tip. Keeping the tip clean is vital for a soldering iron to work. Also pumping up the heat to maximum is a great way to make the tip oxidize even faster and more useless.Maybe show us a picture of the tip

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:33:50 am
content: Will get a picture online when i get home. The tip is exactly the same colour as when i bought it, like a dull grey colour.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:54:20 am
content: Im going to buy a tin of this on the way home from work.http://www.maplin.co.uk/tip-tinner-cleaner-3929And also im looking at a few soldering irons on ebay, links below which one do you reccommend? Any experiences with them etc?http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BK-3000LF-70W-Soldering-Station-Iron-Digital-Disp-LF-Solder-UK-Co-Warranty-/220896215871?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item336e70c33fhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atten-AT980D-Professional-80W-Soldering-Iron-Station-/230711468948?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item35b779a394http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-1-SMD-SMT-Hotair-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-Soldering-Welder-8786D-7-Free-Gifts-/260896358436?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3cbea28024http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BK-2000-Premium-Soldering-Station-Solder-Iron-Digital-Display-UK-Co-/220900062421?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item336eab74d5http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GORDAK-936A-Soldering-Station-Electric-Soldering-Irons-/250866958549?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3a68d600d5http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Atten-AT938D-Professional-60W-Soldering-Iron-Station-/290640918852?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43ab8c7944Any of these are in my budget so whichever gets the most votes ill buy.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 10:23:59 am
content: didnt flux help? i suspect you are trying to melt a large blob of solder on massive coppered board which will distribute the heat everywhere, so you wont get to the melting point at the blob location. melted tin on your tip indicates your solder is doing fine, except i think 50W is only for small/area job. i have $15 no temp control solder normally working at 20W, when i hit the button, it will go 130W and can melt everything, including the tip itself!

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 10:26:49 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 07, 2011, 10:23:59 amQuite interesting soldering iron

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 10:39:59 am
content: Mechatrommer, the solder wont even melt if i touch it on the tip of the iron. I can just rest it on the end of the iron and it wont melt.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:06:51 am
content: Quote from: stewmath on December 07, 2011, 10:39:59 amThen you have some verry high melting point solder (unlikely), large ammount of oxide on tip (likely) or a defective soldering iron (very likely).

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:12:03 am
content: touching the blob by the tip wont transfer so much heat, just like electricity... small (contact) area = high resistance = low ampere = low heat transfer. try rubbing the tip's side with the blob and... be patient. even my $15 iron will take time for bigger blob, esp heavily coppered pcb. hacklord: my iron ishttp://www.tequipment.net/Hakko981.htmlpistol type. for my repair job that need to take large component out, my KADA 852AD+ simply wont cut it. i have to arm both up, the kada and hakko, each one have specific speciality. once i pressed the yellow button on kada for too long while analyzing pcb, when i look at it, the whole shaft and tip is glowing red, i cant imagine what will happen if i press any longer.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:17:06 am
content: hacklordsniper, probably all 3. Im getting a chisel tip and tip cleaner on the way home from work. The solder i have is the following:http://www.maplin.co.uk/lead-free-silver-solder-34965

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 12:48:03 pm
content: If this is your soldering iron:As BAW says, its rebadged in many forms. Another common copy is Vellemans:The only thing good about it is its cheap. I wouldn't buy any accessories. A good soldering iron has true temperature controlled feedback, and typically run about $50. What you have here is a resistance heating rod [ like you have in a stove] with variable heat provided by a light dimmer.I'd suggest you find a Weller in the EU or UK with the specs of the Hakko FX888 or the Weller WES51; these are the most basic. Weller because the EU versions are often made in Germany and you'd unlikely be as heavily taxed as a Hakko. US specific low cost Weller model are commonly made in Mexico. You can also find the Xytronic equivalent, which is far cheaper but insure you can return it as the quality control can be variable.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 12:51:46 pm
content: saturation, yeah thats my iron. It is CRAP!!Ive put some links above to some irons i was looking at on ebay if you want to take a look. Budget isnt much of a problem.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 02:42:26 pm
content: Registering my vote for the 938D

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 02:47:19 pm
content: Chet T16, so not the 980D then?

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 02:56:08 pm
content: I haven't needed the extra power but i suppose it would be nice to have

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 03:00:08 pm
content: Chet T16, i am thinking of the 938D

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 05:39:47 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on December 07, 2011, 07:23:50 amIt does. However, since the author actively ignored that suggestion at least three times I won't bother any more with him. He is wasting his money, not ours.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:00:29 pm
content: BoredAtWork, i did reply to the question about tinning the tip. I said i tried and the solder just dropped off. Please read further up. I have bought some tip cleaner and that did the trick.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:41:50 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on December 07, 2011, 10:26:49 amIf the iron manages melts itself just a bit, it would turn into a nice piece of modern art.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:24:54 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on December 07, 2011, 09:41:50 pmit just did after the glowing experience. the whole shaft and tip side now look like "rainbow in the black" + i now usually clean it with zinc chloride flux, the tip's side looks "ancient rusty type of art". BAW, at least 938 is greater than 852, guess it should be better.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 09:12:16 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 07, 2011, 11:24:54 pmYes, same as Yamaha R6 is better than R1 because she has 6 of somethingTo be back on topic i think the author has a defective soldering iron and bad tip. I have a 7 W 12 V in conjuction with 12 V 1.2 Ah pencil for field work on tiny components and i have managed to solder even 1.5 mm2 wires with it

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 09:33:11 am
content: hacklordsniper , it was the tip yeah. I replaced the tip yesterday, few quid from maplins. Tinned it and alls good. It melts the lead free solder when its turned up just past half way now. Alls good.

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 10:14:13 am
content: Quote from: stewmath on December 08, 2011, 09:33:11 amGreat, dont forget to tin any new tip and remove oxide later when you use it

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 10:30:36 am
content: yeah i got tip cleaner, great stuff.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 10:43:50 pm
content: I have the same iron myself. It's shit. There's no feedback, it's just a phase controller with a few steel weights in the case so it stands up.That said, it's better than a really cheap soldering iron with no temperature control at all.

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 08:19:35 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on December 08, 2011, 10:43:50 pmYes but only just Lol, Tend to use mine on non critical jobs like cables and plugs and use my (slightly ) better iron for more sensitive jobs. Sometime though you need both irons on the go and on those occasions the 'firestick' can be a godsend.

author: stewmath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 09:30:02 am
content: Yeah its a reasonable iron but theres not much good about it, ive done better jobs with a £5 non temp controlled 25w iron from ebay before. However i have ordered a much better.