exploding capacitor rifle - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:11:28 pm
content: Do you think you could use an exploding capacitor as a primer for the ammunition of an electric gun?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:15:50 pm
content: Don't be silly.

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:22:51 pm
content: If you were doing research on the most impractical and inefficient ways to make a gas generator, sure. The amount of energy released by a venting capacitor just isn't very much.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:38:00 pm
content: You'd have a better time using a capacitor to heat a small coil that will ignite the powder (see car cig lighter).

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: Nerull on July 10, 2019, 09:22:51 pmThats when they go off safely, I mean purpose building the capacitor to go off disasterously on purpose.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:43:43 pm
content: Don't be silly.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 09:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 09:42:35 pmNah the energy required is too great.BTW Remington did electric cartridge ignition decades ago and it was a flop.Sure trigger lock times were great but that's about all.https://www.forgottenweapons.com/remington-etronx-electrically-primed-ammunition-video/

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 10:18:50 pm
content: To get the full 4000 or so watts you need a pretty big battery, but I was thinking thats what your big ghost busters pack was for, you know because it is a "future gun" maybe it suits running around with a big heavy battery pack on.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 10:27:36 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 10:18:50 pmWhy ?Remington did this with a 9V battery and today could possibly with a tiny CR3032 or Li rechargeable.https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gear/reviews/a211/1277311/

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 10:31:59 pm
content: Yeh but they still use explosive, if you do it with a capacitor its just an out of control electric field.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 10:40:14 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 10:31:59 pmBecause there's no better propellent !Can I ask how much shooting and/or cartridge reloading experience you have ?While there may be alternative ways to send a projectile down a barrel currently there are none as repeatable as the modern smokeless powder. Period !That we can consistently make reloads with less than 5fps variation @ 3000fps is testament to modern reloading techniques and components. Unless you can match this forget about it.Warning: this is a very deep rabbit hole you're peering into.

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 10:56:09 pm
content: Well considering Australia bans guns completely, and u yanks learn how to shoot b4 your 10 years old as I imagine im a little outclassed in this area. <edit> sorry ur a newzealander, just noticed <edit>But next time you say "watch out buddy or ill buss a cap in yo ass" you can actually do it with a cap!A good thing is if it takes 4000 watts to set off a round, the ammunition is alot safer. And u only have to raid an old tv 2 get your ammo.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 10:56:09 pmAmmo is already safe unless you put in a fire, your cap propelled cartridge will be no different.It's always; the nut behind the (rifle) butt !

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:02:00 pm
content: Capacitors dont explode in fires, they only blow up with too much electricity.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:09:05 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2019, 10:27:36 pmI'm fond of the 700 series.OP, I think my gas grill starter puts out 20KW or so. Say 10KV at 2A. I would need to look up the data I collected on it. Of course the event is only a few ns long. You really should learn some basic terms. What you want is energy.If the part has copper leads, and if you can get that copper to vaporize... Really, no point in a capacitor, just use some copper and be done with it. Then again, PhotonicInduction has made several video with his large capacitors. I suggest you check out his channel. For a scaled down experiment that may provide you with some idea about the expansion of copper:

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 10, 2019, 11:09:05 pmMe too, I have a couple.To be clear, they're both using traditional percussion primer ignition.

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:17:57 pm
content: Haha that was amazing!I dont know how that technique scales with power, but I wasnt planning on anything more than what you just showed me, thanks alot.Id love to see that thing go into product, fuse ammo!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2019, 11:17:30 pmSame.I have always heard that all guns were outlawed in your country and you just poison everything? Are you allowed certain guns, like a bolt action rifle? Do you have to be a rancher or something? Can they only be used for target? What's the real story? PM if you want it out of the main forum.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:31:52 pm
content: You need a police issued firearms license.Only certain classes of firearm can be licensed.For instance, fully automatic firearms are banned.They can be used for just about anything except shooting humans… Targets, pests, venison back steaks, etc…

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:36:51 pm
content: Interesting.Are you allowed to own one if you reside in a large city? Do you have different licenses depending on if you carry one for personal protection or hunting? Are the laws the same across the entire country?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:42:34 pm
content: Yes, you can own a firearm if you live in a city. You are just not allowed to discharge it in a built up area.Yes, there are different classes of license. AFAIK a small arms (pistol) license is completely different and a lot more difficult to obtain.Generally hunting and target shooting only.Personal protection would infer shooting humans which will get you 20 years in Her Majestys Holiday Camp.The laws are the same across the entire country.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on July 10, 2019, 11:31:52 pmAs they always have been in NZ.Recently some semiauto's have been banned too by a Gubbermint that hasn't participated in any worthwhile public consultation and ridden roughshod over law obeying firearms owners rights.That some classes of sporting firearms have also fallen into some classification that was directed at military style semis confirms their knee jerk incompetence in dealing with what was a tragic massacre of innocent ppls when the licensing and the system was really to blame.As always, it's the nut behind the butt."A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust." -- Jeffrey R. Snyder, 'A Nation Of Cowards'

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2019, 11:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 11:17:57 pmAgain, its not power (Watts) but energy (Joules). This may seem like a fairly innocent and safe experiment, but the generator I am using to put out the transient is actually quite dangerous. It's not PhotonicInduction big cap, blowing off body parts dangerous, but I am sure it could end ones life if you were to take a jolt across the chest with it.(BTW, I corrected the value for R and added C in that last LED experiment. If it wasn't clear how it was wired, let me know and I will add a sketch)

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:04:42 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 10, 2019, 11:26:42 pmIm not the type to own a gun really, and not to one to ask, but in australia from my perspective im sure theres plenty of people with them, despite whats said out loud on the news and in parliament, and there is ammo stores and such. And ur right about the water, it is absolute shithouse I just live on fruit juice instead, its more fun anyway.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:11:22 am
content: We are a country of complex laws and that change depending where you are. It's up to you as a owner to understand these laws.Are there age restrictions to own and purchase? Does it depend on the type of gun, caliber?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:16:26 am
content: I think the primer shockwave jutters the powder around so its not caked up into a corner when it fires to offer more even gas expansionthe burn rate of the primer is much higher then the powder, so I think it will get 'shook' into a evenish distribution

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:20:59 am
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 11, 2019, 12:04:42 amDo you own a hammer, knife, baseball bat, screwdriver, car.......they've all been used to inflict damage on others and each in their own right is just another tool !Just like a firearm is !I know many that have never draw blood with a gun as their focus is only for sporting competition.Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 12:11:22 amYes all those in some way in NZ....the OP is in OZ, it is quite different to here.16 to buy a firearm you must be licensed but you can use one at any age under the supervision of a license holder.At 18 you can buy an air powered weapon as of right.Quote from: coppercone2 on July 11, 2019, 12:16:26 amAnother armchair handloader.Compressed powder loads don't obey those rules.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:23:56 am
content: i think that lead got your head bro, seem a bit aggressive

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:45:29 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 11, 2019, 12:23:56 amYep, it's my avatar too !If like me you'd been handloading for 40+ years you'd know shotshell loads don't have any free space for powder to 'find a corner' as you put it. Shotshell loads that do don't perform properly and are prone to mis or hang fires.In the better rifle loads where a high case % fill is most desirable there also is very little volume for powder to 'find a corner' and in such loads the primer is always covered by powder unless shooting vertically downwards.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:00:20 am
content: I didn't even think about how air rifles would fit in. As kids, I suspect more than a few of us had our spring loaded Daisy. Do they allow the spring loaded rifles and handguns at a younger age or 18 is still the limit?As a kid (actually, I still own one) had a few spring operated BB pistol toys. The springs were so weak in these that you could shoot yourself, point blank and not leave even a welt. They were a lot of fun to shoot paper targets at short range. That was about it.Here, a very common toy was the 760 powermaster. These are a multi-pump air rifle. Are these also at the 18 limit or is it really just for the higher end air rifles. What about the toy CO2 powered ones?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:08:13 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 01:00:20 am18 is the limit here for unlicensed purchase of air guns Joe.I wanted one when I was young but Dad didn't think much of them so he taught us to use a .22 in pre-teenage years. At 16 I got my own instead of using his old single shot Winchester.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:09:55 am
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 11, 2019, 12:04:42 amWTF?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:20:48 am
content: The Wikipedia article covers most stuff with accuracy.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_ZealandFor what its worth, I think both firearms and the licensing of firearms users is badly designed and badly managed in NZ.The whole thing needs a complete overhaul in consultation with the public and the firearms users.To reiterate what @tautech said, The problem is the nut behind the butt, not the conscientious hunter or sportsman.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:22:36 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 01:00:20 amAs long as I remember air rifles have been licensed in NZ.Just a few years back one of our undercover cops was killed with a .22 high powered one at point blank range so modern ones are somewhat dangerous.QuoteAnd give it a sniff of ether ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:40:11 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on July 11, 2019, 01:20:48 amWhen I bought my first, a .22 you have to visit the cop shop and apply for a 'permit to procure' and the shop and firearm brand and type had to specified. Then armed with your permit you trundled to 'specified' gun shop and made the purchase. But wait, we're not finished with you yet as you then had to trundle back to the cop shop for the Arms officer to sight and record the details of your purchase.......all on a paper register.Even private sales between 2 ppls had to be registered with the cops.At that time Police records had just migrated to computer and shortly thereafter individual firearm registration was dropped and a new firearms licensing introduced where only the ppls were to be licensed.Officially the cost was too high to import all the old paper records and continue on with a modernized version of the old system despite the many calls from the public and interested parties to maintain some sort of register of who's got what !Now we have the mess we have today which will cost many times more to fix which of course will be passed onto the 'legal' owners with vastly increased licensing fees.Gubbermints in general are terrified of this:"A government that does not trust it's law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust." -- Jeffrey R. Snyder, 'A Nation Of Cowards'

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 01:55:06 am
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 11, 2019, 12:04:42 amhow much do you weigh, how tall are you, what is your diabetic status and what is the condition of your teeth?i would look forward to fruit water life

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 02:06:11 am
content: I'm not sure what the process is now but it sounds like yours is similar to what I went through the last time. I had to fill out paperwork to get a permit to buy the gun. Basically, they want to know if you are a felon. We had some 7 day cool down period back then after some guy bought a gun to shoot his wife on the same day, so you have to wait. Then you have only a certain amount of time to use the permit. Then you actually buy the gun, filling out more paperwork. Like you, it's not over yet. It's back to the police to have the gun inspected and documented. You are then fingerprinted and after all of that, you can finally go out and target shoot. Oh wait, there is more.... You move to a new area and it's back the local police where you file more paperwork and are again finger printed and then wait for your new permit to arrive.Quote from: tautech on July 11, 2019, 01:08:13 amDad bought me my first 22 (also a Remington bolt) at age 10 to learn on. When I reached my early teens being a stupid shit know it all teen, I saved up for a summer and traded in the Remington for a Ruger. They had just came out with a 22 semi that I really wanted. The Ruger never did have the accuracy of the Remington bolt. When I was older, I returned to my roots of the Remington bolt.Sorry, I wasn't able to attach in a PM but this is the Rit dye job I mentioned. Didn't want to leave you with the impression that it was a hippy tie job. Poly wasn't finished at this stage but it looks like glass. One of my few experiments that I was pleased with the results.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 02:16:56 am
content: Never liked poly or varnished finished stocks much although my flash Anshultz 22 has it as if the coating is damaged and water gets underneath (yes we hunt in rain !) the wood gets water stained and looks gawd awful.When my 10-22 got a cleanup I used Tung oil in thinned coats first then unthinned later. Takes a bit to dry unless temps are warm.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 02:30:45 am
content: This thing shines way too much to take hunting. Any animal in a 10 mile radius would see you coming. You would need to put shoe polish on it now. I like the poly because it is so durable. The other 700 and the Ruger are both oil finished.Ah, you have a 10-22.Why doesn't that surprise me. These things must be one of the most popular guns made now. I made an attempt to carve my stock using my modelling knife. This was long before learning to carve. It's unique, I'll say that for it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 02:42:10 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 02:30:45 amHere, it's a matter of who hasn't got one.Good little rifle, easy to shoot but not terribly accurate and at longer ranges you lose the hitting power of a bolt action........all the reasons why I also own an Anschutz !About the 10-22.......explicitly exempted from the latest NZ firearm bans.......Gubbermint wouldn't want to upset to many gun owners.Yet a 12 shot tube mag Marlin 22 is banned !Guess who will win the race reloading those 2 rifles if they're up to no good ?Idiot Gubbermints.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 02:47:12 am
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 11:02:00 pmTwaddle.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 03:12:30 am
content: I had seen where one of the states was talking about banning it, or it was banned. I remember seeing it on the news and laughing. My wife asks whats up and I tell her that's my childhood rifle. She's shot it.I think they now limit the higher capacity magazines for them here. I think we can still have flip clips. Not sure about those double acting triggers. Mines basically the way it was when I bought it new, just beat up from me using it so much. I did replace the barrel on it. Contacted Ruger and had them ship a stainless one for it and a few other parts for the trigger.Nope, there's a 75 round one for sale. The Hellfire triggers look to still be offered as well... I'll stick with a bolt.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 03:23:16 am
content: I clicked this thread expecting a YouTube video of said rifle...They say you can find almost anything on the Internet, so here you go:

author: krayvonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 12:49:00 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 02:06:11 amso you think fruit is unhealthy?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 03:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 11, 2019, 12:49:00 pmWhole fruit is fine because it contains fibre, which limits how quickly the sugar is absorbed into the bloodstream and it digests slowly, so it's relatively difficult to eat too much. The problem is fruit juice which has very little fibre and the same sugar content as cola, so is fairly easy to over-consume. It does contain vitamins, but once you've had your maximum daily dose of them, it won't do you any good.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 05:31:21 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 11, 2019, 12:49:00 pmFun stuff!I don't know about fruit, but fruitloop sounds more relevant here.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 06:59:28 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 11, 2019, 01:22:36 amYou might want to look up the Daisy VL rifle. It used what appeared to be a standard .22 bullet (not cartridge) but it had a cake of hard yellowish powder affixed to the back of the projectile. The rifle used a standard compressed spring action but when you released the spring and it suddenly compressed the air in the barrel that would ignite the powder charge. Due to the higher pressure due to the powder charge, the air chamber was heavier built and IIRC the air system had some sort of check valve in it to prevent the excess pressure from reflecting back to the piston and spring. Unless you know what to look for, the VL appears to be just another cheaply made sheet metal and plastic air rifle.The story behind these is that supposedly, Daisy built these in the hopes of selling them to the US military and that they were supposed to be an ultra cheap training rife that used ultra cheap ammunition. (In those days, the US was training a LOT of troops to fight the war in Viet Nam.) But by the time that Daisy got them into production in 1968/1969 the war in VietNam was being turned over to the Vietnamese and the training requirements had dropped.Damm, it's nice to live in the Gunshine state and to be able legally own and shoot anything that I want. Er, well anything that I can afford!Edit. OK found a picture of the cartridgehttps://www.rockislandauction.com/blog/daisy-heddon-v-l-rifle-the-caseless-ammo-22/

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 08:05:12 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 11, 2019, 03:12:30 amWhat state? There is currentlya strongly-worded stayin the9th circuit court of appealsover the CA magazine ban. It will likely be accepted to the US Supreme Court for a final ruling (because of different rulings on the matter in different states), which (with the current conservative majority) is likely to invalidate all magazine limits nation wide.I've always wondered if there was crossover with people in the maker/hacker communities or not. That is, if someone likes doing that to modify one thing they would like toying around with other things, or if people tended to be focused or interested in only one subject.There does seem to be a lot of carryover, at least anecdotally. The Defcon shoot is a good example.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 09:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 11, 2019, 06:59:28 pmVery interesting, thanks so much.Fascinating, I never knew the Daisy VL existed.Like any air rifle that uses a piston to propel the pellet the VL will also suffer from lock time delays and with the velocity it produces and hence the ranges it can be used for necessitates long post release perfect hold techniques to get the accuracy it's capable of. While some see this as a disadvantage over conventional primer/powder propulsion methods the delay an air weapon has to exit the projectile from the barrel can actually make you a better shooter by necessitating good post trigger release firearm control.I know a guy, an excellent shooter, that uses this 'negative' of air rifle post release delay to improve his hold techniques for traditional rifle shooting. That he can be competitive with 'run of the mill' firearms in local and national events is testament to his shooting techniques.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 12:04:51 am
content: Quote from: MyHeadHz on July 11, 2019, 08:05:12 pmIt's been 20-25 years. I think it may have been IL.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 12:26:54 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on July 10, 2019, 11:31:52 pmCanada is similar, you have to undergo 1st a firearms safety course and optional additional 2nd course for "restricted" firearms. You need also a 3rd hunting course if you want to use them for hunting. Most approved trainers will offer all 3 courses: 1st course is long-guns (e.g. hunting rifles), 2nd course (optional) for restricted (hand guns, semi-autos, etc.) and the 3rd hunting course (optional if you just go to the range to shoot).You can also buy air rifles (limited to under 500 fps shooting speed) of either 0.177 or 0.22 caliber quite easily, no license needed at all. I think you need to be over 18. When you buy pellets the stores will record your ID as well (they ask for my drivers license and write it in their log books). I have a "spring air" gun called the Ruger Air Hawk with scope. It's a great target shooter, aka "plinker", to practice basic posture, breathing and aiming skills. You can set up a shooting range in your basement if you have the space or at the cottage or any other private field without any concern (there are obvious safety considerations and you need to be smart and responsible even with this, or you or others may get hurt):I can tell you that with some practice using the scope (I have crappy eye-sight and wear glasses) I am getting groupings of under 1" at 50 feet and that's not even close to the tightness that pros get. The pellets even at that distance are still powerful enough to go completely through various cans, and will pierce thinner wood slats. Definitely you don't want to be on the receiving end of the rifle. But it is a convenient, cheap and easy way to get into target practice and learning about firearms.Now back to the capacitor-overload-powered "gun". The idea is that when the capacitor explodes, it's contents vaporize and the resulting gas wants to expand and therefore forces out the projectile/bullet. The expansion ratio can't be very great and while it will probably shoot something out of a barrel, it will contaminate the bore and probably damage it on repeated firings. It seems expensive as well considering that an air/spring-gun can accomplish many factors of power greater pressure with an air piston (and also larger expansion ratio) repeatedly with no issues and without contaminating the bore, and no need for electricity at all. Just add pellets (which are inexpensively obtained at about 1250 for around $25) and pump away! Even if you could manage to shoot, crack open your barrel, reload a pellet, close the break-action, aim and shoot again every 15 seconds.... You would be shooting for over 5 hours straight and probably your arm would fall off from exhaustion, for only $25.With a capacitor gun, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to reload a projectile and the "capacitor" propellant efficiently and consistently, hook it up properly electrically, get the proper electric charge going and have it fire predictably. It would probably be a very complex process that takes time to set up, and when fired will be unpredictable rate and time and power, with pieces of the capacitor flying around inside the bore scratching and contaminating everything in sight. So for anyone wanting a reliable efficient cheap consistent and safe firearm, using a capacitor is going to fail on all levels compared with even the most simple cheap air-gun and pellets, and provide way less power.Also keep in mind that while I can only get a 500 fps air-gun without a license, once I get a license (1st course) I can own regular long-guns that take actual ammunition (i.e. "bullets") and also air-guns that are much faster.... 1000 or 1250 fps.... compare that to a rifle with regular gunpower ammunition that will be upwards of 2500 fps. Also they are extremely reliable, hugely higher velocities are available and heavier projectiles which deliver way more energy to the target.I would be much more interested in an electric "rail gun".... NOW THAT IS SCARY and FASCINATING at the same time. I don't think they are going to make something more portable and safe any time soon but here is an example:Here's another example of an electric railgun but you can see how pathetically slow the projectile is travelling, it even bounces off the glass bulb although makes it shatter.Even an air-gun pellet would have gone completely through and into the wall behind:The actual electric rail gun used by the military is a huge beast with awesome firing capability.... Reaches MACH 7 speed and the projectiles are massive. MACH 7 is around 7800 feet per second... compare that to some of the fastest rifle muzzle velocities at around 3500-4500 fps, just a bit over half that speed. The military electric railgun will shoot a 3.2 kg (7 lb) projectile to MACH 7. The .204 Ruger can fire a 32-grain (2.1g) projectile at around 4225 fps. So do the math... E = 1/2 mv^2...3200g @7800 fps vs 2.1g @4225 fps. Not taking units into account or figuring out the exact energy, I just want to know purely the ratio... we have 1/2 x 3200 x 7800^2 compared to 1/2 x 2.1 x 4225 ^2, or 97344000000 : 18743156 is about 5193 : 1 difference in power at the end of that projectile between the military railgun and one of the fastest rifles.

author: JxR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 02:41:41 am
content: Quote from: edy on July 12, 2019, 12:26:54 amAlthough your ratio is totally correct (and gets the point across fine) because both calculations had the same "errors". I'm going to be that guy and point out that J = kg(m/s)^2. So your units need some conversions to get the right numbers in Joules.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 06:53:46 am
content: Quote from: JxR on July 12, 2019, 02:41:41 amRight, so 97344000000 g(ft/s)^2 : 18743156 g(ft/s)^2.Ok let's do the proper conversion.1/2 x 3200 g x (7800 ft/s)^2 compared to 1/2 x 2.1 g x (4225 ft/s) ^21/2 x 3.2kg x (2377 m/s)^2 compared to 1/2 x 0.0021kg x (1288 m/s)^29040206 J compared to 1742 J.... again a ratio of about 5189:1Said another way... 9 MegaJoules to 1.7 KiloJoules.Given that an Asian Elephant ways about 5000 kg, the 5000:1 ratio would be like comparing the weight of an elephant to a rabbit. What would you rather have dropped on you?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 12:44:59 pm
content: If you're interested in rail guns then you should go read 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' by Robert A. Heinlein. The numbers are impressive to say the least. A rail gun will never be an effective endo-atomspheric weapon anytime in the foreseeable future due to air friction and the fact that there are efficient ways to project energy. Ex-atmospheric is an altogether different scenario.Edy, I'm surprised that you didn't bring up Gerald Ball! What kind of Canadian are you anyway?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 01:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 12, 2019, 12:44:59 pmGerald who?Actually I just Googled it now... it's not "Ball" but "Bull":https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_BullI remember this story, it was a long time ago, he was caught building long-range canons for Saddam Hussein government and was assassinated in 1990 possibly by Israeli Mossad agents in Brussels. I see there was a movie made about him on HBO:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_GunWhat a dangerous career to be in! He seemed to have made too many enemies and was purely an engineer for hire without any qualms about who he might be helping, despotic dictators and what-not. When you are in that business you have to make choices on who to work for, and he obviously made the wrong ones.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 02:40:52 pm
content: I don't know if they ever actually got used or not but in the early 1960s Bull made some cannons for the USN (IIRC) that were supposed to be able "fire" satellites into orbit. They used two 18" naval gun barrels welded end to end. Bull tried for decades to find a buyer for his ideas, but when he finally did it turned out to be the wrong one (Sadam Hussein) and at the wrong time!Just to get this thread back on track, maybe the OP can make some multi-chambered guns (Bull's design); but with exploding capacitors!

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 08:22:03 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 12, 2019, 02:40:52 pmYeah I just don't see how the amount of vaporized gas/residue from the contents of a capacitor have the expansion coefficient to create the kind of pressures needed to accelerate a projectile. If you have no bullet in front of the capacitor in the chamber, you just have gas and pieces of capacitor flying out the gun barrel. It basically acts like a "blank"... making a nice pop sound but probably not very damaging at all as the minute the gases leave the barrel they dissipate the energy in all directions.If you can place a projectile in front of the capacitor it will need to be forced by the expanding gases out of the barrel. Some experimentation is in order, such as different ratings for capacitors, different sizes, low ESR vs. regular, the amount of current to dump into them and voltage... lots of parameters to determine the best "expansion" options so produce the highest velocities.One other thing I always wondered was that a typical air-gun pellet is made up of lead. I know bullets can have metal jackets but I have never seen an air-gun pellet other than pure lead. Is there a reason for that? Even pointed pellets don't have much penetrating power because the lead is soft and deforms. If I shout at anything hard, the pellet squashes into a pancake. If something about the same weight as a pellet could be made but harder with the same weight, or perhaps slightly longer to keep the weight similar but still fit the 0.177-caliber air-gun chamber and out of a stronger material (steel), would it not have the same velocity characteristic (given equal mass) but have better penetration?Could the use of the soft lead be in order to allow a good seal to prevent venting of the pressurized gases around the projectile as it launches through the barrel? I noticed the back end of the pellet has a bit of a mushroom shape and it fits snuggly against the walls of the barrel when you insert it. I imagine as it travels down the rifled bore, the softness moulds the back end tightly against the barrel and keeps the pressurized air from escaping around it. A harder material or jacket might not permit the kind of operation that air-guns require to keep chamber pressures. In a gunpowder-fired bullet the amount of force generated I would imagine is many times higher than an air-gun so even a harder jacket would conform to the bore but there would still be escaping gas around it, just not as much of an impact???

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 08:45:43 pm
content: All that edy.Yes air rifles use a cupped pellet that the edges expand to improve the air seal while the head of the pellet is just a good fit in the bore. Also the cup must expand sufficiently to engage with the rifling to spin the pellet to stabilize its flight and maintain accuracy.Lead has all these advantages that are also used in conventional rifles to a point where heat generated from higher velocities starts to leave traces of lead in the barrel which eventually has major detrimental effects on accuracy.Modern jacketed projectiles are far more advanced and engage deeply into the barrel rifling with little clearance to the nominal bore diameter for an effective gas seal. Typically the modern projectile is jacketed completely except for the tip.For higher velocities various gilding metals are used to jacket the lead core and permit much higher velocities to be achieved with far less barrel/bore contamination. Projectile jackets are commonly copper alloys however nickel has been used and even Teflon coatings to reduce bullet friction.Yet there still is some bore deposits depending on bore finish and velocity.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2019, 11:36:24 pm
content: I really don't see the point, an exploding capacitor doesn't have much energy, it's not really an explosion, it's just gas pressure causing the top to pop off. I have an air rifle that will shoot a .177 pellet clean through a piece of 3/8" plywood, not gonna get that kind of force out of a capacitor popping.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 12:58:32 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 12, 2019, 08:45:43 pmLead projectiles are only good up to about 1200 to 1500 f/s before lead fouling in the barrel becomes a major issue. That's why nearly all rifle projectiles (other than .22 LR) and many high powered pistol projectiles are copper jacketed. The relative softness of lead projectiles can also lead to feeding and jamming problems, particularly in self loading full or semi-automatic weapons. That's why virtually all of the military ammunition is fully jacketed aka FMJ, Full Metal Jacket. FMJ is also more or less required by the 1899 and 1907 Hague Conventions.There have been numerous attempts to coat projectiles with Teflon, Moly disulphide, nylon and other low-friction coatings but the benefits are rarely worth the very slight improvement in performance.I have used lead air rifle pellets that are electro plated with copper but I can't see that they're an improvement over plain lead alloy projectiles.FYI I say copper plated but the bullet jacketing is usually a copper/ zinc/ tin alloy called guilding metal.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 03:17:43 am
content: Er well yes all that and more.Lead is often mixed with Antimony to get greater hardness and thereby reduce lead barrel fouling at higher velocities however this limits the styles of lead bullets that can be used, for example the cup based mini ball style used in black powder muzzle loaders, lead/antimony alloys may be too hard to get reliable expansion of the cup.While lead fouling is an issue with old calibers and the reason jacketed projectiles are now in widespread use, lead fouling in classic and reproduction firearms is a perfectly manageable nuisance.At one time the bullet styles didn't allow for adequate lubrication but now we have better designed bullets that will hold the specialized projectile lubricants that are commercially available:http://rcbs.com/Products/Bullet-Casting/Accessories/Bullet-Lubricant.aspxTherefore with alloyed lead projectiles that use this sort of design lead fouling is a lesser issue than black powder fouling for those that like to shoot these old timers for a bit of fun.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 04:12:55 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 14, 2019, 03:17:43 amLOL. I think that I have that exact mold. If I'm not mistaken that is the Lyman mold for the .58 caliber Minié ball as used in 1864 Springfield rifles. It's unusual in that it has tapered grooves on the base of the bullet. It was hoped that those would scrap out the black powder fouling that accumulated in the rifle barrels. I have an original rifle as well.You left tin out of the bullet mix. Antimony is ok but tin is much better and will give youhardbullets, particularly if you chill them when you drop them out of the mold.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 08:04:30 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 14, 2019, 04:12:55 amSure, if you want to push lead based projectiles to their max but there's only so much velocity you can take lead alloys to before the centrifugal forces from the rifling twist rate tears the bullet apart in mid flight.Modern (last 50 years) rifles that spit their loads fast have all had this problem and it's been addressed with better and tougher jackets to hold the projectiles together. Probably the most famous is the .22 cal 220 Swift that was one of the first mass produced calibers capable of consistently exceeding 4000 fps. Still today if the wrong projectile is selected for use in the 220 Swift they will fly apart shortly after exiting the barrel.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 01:36:06 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 14, 2019, 08:04:30 amTrue but lead fouling in the barrel and failure of the bullet to grip the barrel rifling (called "stripping the rifling") and subsequent bullet tumbling in flight and complete loss of accuracy, occur at much lower velocities than what it takes to make a bullet tear apart so you rarely get to that point. Years ago we experimented with a full length .300 Winchester Magnum necked down to .25 caliber. With a full power charge it would rip apart even FMJ bullets. The only bullets that it didn't rip apart were ones made of solid bronze. It was a great round and it would really reach out there and touch something but it really just wasn't worth the work and costs to build a special gun, reloading dies, chambering reamers, etc for that caliber, except for bragging rights. I still have some of the solid bronze bullets but loaded ammunition with those is now considered to be armor piercing and is illegal.Quote from: tautech on July 14, 2019, 08:04:30 amTell me about it. I bought several .22 and .25 caliber molds but they're largely useless except for reloading .25-20s. Any other useful .25 caliber cartridge is too fast to use lead bullets, unless you're just making plinking loads.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 01:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: krayvonk on July 10, 2019, 10:56:09 pmErr, no, I can go and apply for gun ownership tomorrow. The laws are just very strict.As for the capacitor, it's got to be bugger-all energy compared to gun powder/explosive. An electrolytic capacitor explodes because the dielectric liquid inside heats up, expands, and bursts out the weakest point (usually the vent hole on the top).It would be interesting to know how far and how fast a cap would be propelled out of a suitably sized sealed end barrel.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 01:53:41 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 12, 2019, 11:36:24 pmI don't know how much energy though. I have already witnessed "explosions" of electrolytic capacitors polarized in reverse. One was accidental and very close to one of my hands (it was a 1000µF/50V capacitor IIRC and accidentally polarized in reverse with, if I again RC, -12V). It didn't do a lot of damage but I can tell you it HURT and I got a 2nd-degree burn. There was of course this nasty impregnated paper all over the room. The other cases were intentional for "demo" purposes. I just can tell you that if you polarize them in reverse and don't limit the current to a low value, most of them will literally EXPLODE. When treated this badly, the slotted vents are not enough usually to prevent a complete destruction. I suggest people skeptical of this to just experiment! IME, the reverse polarization with enough reverse voltage and a high current limit will lead to spectacular stuff with many electrolytics.Of course some caps may be better designed than others in that respect.Also, even though the result can be "spectacular", it usually takes a few seconds to happen. So for a riffle...It could probably be much faster with very high reverse voltages. If anyone is willing to further experiment...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 02:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 10, 2019, 11:43:19 pmTautech, if you turn this into a gun rant thread I'll shut it down.Please keep on topic.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 02:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 14, 2019, 01:53:41 pmI've done a video:You'd likely need a specially designed capacitor, as lets say you put one down the end of a nicely fitting barrel vent end first so the gas would come out the vent at the sealed back. How far would it have to be from the sealed back wall before it propelled it forward instead of bursting the bottom of the cap that has the seals around the pins?And then you'd need either really fine wires going down the barrel, or else some form of custom contacts on the sides of the barrel and the contact would have to be good enough but not tight enough to prevent the cap flying out. Sounds like it'll be a bit of a schmozzle.But of course if you put some sort of projectile in front of the cap and just used the cap as a gas explosion for force the projectile out then you'd have better luck than trying to get the cap to fly out.But I'd want to see any "capacitor rifle" actually fire the capacitor, else it's a bit lame.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2019, 02:21:11 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2019, 02:07:47 pmI haven't seen this one! Will take a look.Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2019, 02:07:47 pmMost likely yes.Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2019, 02:07:47 pmIn that case, I have some doubts. As you said, you'd have to design a proper barrel. And the capacitor would still have a tendency to disintegrate IMO before it reaches its target if that's what you meant. So yeah the capacitor itself would have to be specifically designed for this.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 01:37:36 am
content: gerald bull is a real life goblin from warcraft. anything for some gold. i bet saddam paid him in gold

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 01:41:42 am
content: Quote from: edy on July 12, 2019, 01:22:23 pm

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 03:35:23 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 12, 2019, 12:44:59 pmLet take this from chemical or mechanical back to electrical...re:A rail gun will never be an effective endo-atomspheric weapon anytime in the foreseeable future due to air frictionThe unforeseeable future is almost here...With current technology, US Navy shown off a rail gun shooting at 5600mph, that is about8210 feet per second.The M16 rifle muzzle velocity is3110 ft/sec, the AK472350 ft/sec. What the USN shown was a cannon so it would be different than rifle. Looking at another famous gun, the GAU-8/A Avenger 30mm cannon: the one that the A10 Warthog "tank killer" was designed to carry, the muzzle velocity is3324 ft/sec.No doubt what the USN shown is a bit too big to put on your belt, but it clearly shown that rail gun can reach meet and exceed the muzzle velocity of chemical explosion driven velocity. Now they need to shrink it a bit further and make it a bit easier to use and deploy... Say another decade or two perhaps.For me, I'd rather jump to direct-energy weapon like killer laser (anti-material) or killer micro-wave (anti-personnel). Point and cook...USN Video here:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 04:42:54 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 15, 2019, 03:35:23 amI doubt major reductions are possible for that size projectile, the power requirements are just so massive. IRRC current power systems on existing ships are not enough, only the Zumwalt-class destroyer has the power system capability in place.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 05:00:32 am
content: thats because they got tired of unclogging barnacles from steam water intakes, I don't think other ships were designed with power generation in mind

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 05:15:07 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 14, 2019, 02:21:11 pmWith enough experimentation I think it's likely possible to get a cap flying out at a decent velocity, but it's going to be messy. More like a shotgun

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 06:36:21 am
content: well how about puncturing or weakening the bottom so its more like a rocket then something that tends to pop on top?maybe even 3d print a nozzle for it that glues to the rupture point?this would very unlikely to work but?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 12:12:47 pm
content: I guess we would have to drastically strengthen its shell, except the bottom side. Just weakening the bottom of a regular cap might not be enough as a typical cap's shell is not sturdy enough IMO, and weakening the bottom might just prevent enough gas accumulation before its pops out.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 05:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 15, 2019, 04:42:54 amYeah, I agree with you that the rail gun shown is unlikely to be shrinkable to say rifle size or even bazooka size. I recall reading an article perhaps a year ago speculating that USN is putting most their chips on direct energy weapon instead of rail guns weapons. If it does, that may spell the end of rail gun.But - point is that rail guns can reach and exceed the chemical-explosion muzzle velocity and Physics takes over. The "air friction being the problem" I quoted from another reply really doesn't matter.Physics is that it really doesn't matter what drove the projectile out of the muzzle. Once it left the muzzle of the gun, the air friction issue or any other issue will be no different -- regardless of what created the energy to push it out of the muzzle, muzzle velocity is all that matters.e =1/2mv2, that is all that matters and rail gun can have as big or biggerv.That said, technology-wise, I like direct energy weapon. I think that is where the future is heading.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 07:11:16 pm
content: What is basically happening with "physical projectile" weapon is that we are converting either CHEMICAL or ELECTRICAL energy into KINETIC ENERGY of the projectile which in itself is being transported to the target, delivers that KINETIC energy into the target usually by deforming the object, ripping it apart.With a DIRECT ENERGY weapon we are converting CHEMICAL (chemical laser) or ELECTRICAL energy into a stream of mass-less photons travelling at the speed of light towards the target. Upon interacting with the target, it transfers that energy into increasing kinetic energy of individual atoms/molecules in the target, essentially causing it to vaporize.For some reason I keep thinking about this movie from the 1980's that I enjoyed watching:

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2019, 11:58:22 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2019, 02:00:28 pmGotcha.My only point was some frustration at recent changes that law abiding firearm owners have unfortunately been turned into criminals by changes to legislation as the result of actions of criminals.Doesn't affect me but I know a few it does that are involved in sporting competition.One can clearly see there is an underlying agenda that's UN driven and then covertly implemented by each member country, AU and NZ are good examples of countries that have weakened to the UN's 'global control' designs.https://www.un.org/disarmament/2018/But what's next ?Will we be legislated to all have EV's unless there is good personal reason not to ?Will traditional protein food sources be outlawed in favor of artificial proteins ? (allegedly lower CO2 footprint)Yes I know, OT again....sorry......however this is a General Chat topic.Lock this if you must but you'll hear no more OT on this matter from me.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 12:22:53 am
content: QuoteIn most high speed rifles you have to use some sort of gas checks to shoot cast bullets, don't you? This grips the rifling and keeps the bore sealed. The only rifles where you don't "need" some kind of gas check seem to be in calibers like 45-70 which throw giant slugs at low speed.I think what happens at the higher velocities to cause tumbling and loss of accuracy before the bullet frags is the bullet melts. When the bullet gets pushed that hard/fast down the barrel, the skin of the cast bullet melts and sheds after exiting the muzzle. Depending on the caliber and twist and alloy, one (fragging vs melting/shedding) might occur before the other. I'd say, usually the melting happens, first.If you have a muzzle brake on your rifle, you might notice the point where you start losing accuracy and getting tumbling with cast bullets coincides pretty closely with the point where the inside of your muzzle break starts to get coated in lead (in a thin even, shiny silver coating; it makes it look a bit like the black oxide coating of your muzzle brake wore off and underneath it was machined out of aluminum.) If the gas seal/check had failed, the entire bore would be plugged with lead.I've only read about bullets spontaneously exploding. From the description, it seems like this is secondary to the bullet destabilizing, probably because parts of it melted off. If it were strictly due to centrifugal force overcoming the material, the bullet would explode as soon as it left the muzzle. More often, it seems the bullet goes some amount of yards downrange, first. After it destabilizes (after asymmetrically shedding some melted/softened lead) and starts spinning out of balance is perhaps where they usually explode. Well, I mean, if the bullet explodes in any way, it probably also melted would have melted and tumbled at at even lower velocity.I have never used a chronograph, but according to reloading manuals, I probably get around 1800 fps with cast and checked rifle bullets. It's fast enough you can't shoot steel targets. They don't get dented; the steel vaporizes on impact.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 01:24:10 am
content: @KL27xIn reply #10 I mentioned this deep rabbit hole, referring to firearm efficiency and ballistics.All projectiles will display instability when used outside their intended use and even in a worn out rifle.The target (excuse pun) is to get them to exit the barrel in the best possible condition and various solutions exist for this to happen however the laws of physics apply to projectile stability too and poor selection of components and/or even velocity can result in bullet instability.Today we have great resources of reloading info online and freely available to help us make a selection of components thatwillwork.This one is unrelated to any component manufacturer:http://kwk.us/twist.html

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:08:18 am
content: Quote from: edy on July 15, 2019, 07:11:16 pmThat's a nice looking triple nickel there at about the 3:15 point. Want!-Pat

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 05:16:27 pm
content: Tautech, I guess the point of my post is that cast bullets are perhaps limited in max velocity, in practice, by the melting point of the lead alloy as much as anything else. The other things that have been listed are secondary. This is, I think, why a thin copper jacket can make a huge difference regarding maximum velocity. Of course, hardness matters, to resist deformation (and heat) during the high acceleration. But a major reason for the jacket (or paper patching) is so the skin of the bullet doesn't melt due to friction.Of course another major reason for the jacket may be to affect what happens after impact.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 05:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 15, 2019, 11:58:22 pmSustainable farming already has a very low carbon footprint, even negative since plants absorb CO2. Artificially synthesizing proteins has a long ways to go before it can even approach the cost and efficiency of sustainable farming, in fact I can only see that approaching feasible in deserts where almost nothing can grow. But then it would have to compete with transporting food from areas better suited to farming.Back on topic, I once read some plans (long time ago, in some old book) for a compressed air gun that charges and shoots a high voltage capacitor. The capacitor had some sharpened nails soldered to it in order to embed itself into the target and stun it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 06:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 16, 2019, 05:16:27 pmYes of course.However even jacketed projectiles have limitations of velocity and twist rate where copper fouling arises from velocity and twist rates needed to stabilise a projectile may result in too much centrifugal force for it to remain intact at higher velocities. There are always trade-offs.Projectile technologies are changing in that some jurisdictions now prohibit the use of any type of lead based projectile for environmental reasons despite a century of proven performance on game. (fast and humane kills)Typically the move is towards a homogeneous copper projectile and that has introduced more problems for the researchers to solve, namely a much longer projectile for the same weight and the influence this has on twist rates in order to properly stabilize it for long range accuracy.Of arguably higher importance is the need for better bullet terminal performance so that game does not need to suffer.Other considerations with a long copper bullet for existing traditional calibers where action and magazine length dominates the choice of options is the requirement to load them deep into the cartridge case and the resultant loss of powder capacity aka performance.This in time all this will be addressed as new rifle calibers/designs centered around copper projectiles while work still goes on addressing improving their terminal performance for humane kills on game.This is another whole rabbit hole to venture into:https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.htmlTo use a firearm as an effective tool I strongly recommendhttps://www.ballisticstudies.com/as the knowledgebase for all practical and proven field performance with a focus on terminal performance of nearly all available sporting calibers and projectiles.That today game can be successfully taken at ranges once only dreamed of is testament to the development of the modern sporting rifle and any other technology to challenge it has a century of catching up to do.We already know of military sniper rifle kills @ 2000+ yds and game kills at similar ranges and I have witnessed kills on rabbits @ 820 yds where one could argue the degree of precision required is equal or better than a 2000 yd shot.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 06:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 16, 2019, 05:49:43 pmDon't get me started on this one.....I totally agree !When the climate protagonists maintain all our ruminant animals that have sustained a large part of the world for centuries are nuthing butmethane belching verminand artificial proteins are the futurewell I enjoy my steak or roast, ribs, liver, kidneys, brains........Yes, totally another topic.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 06:32:47 pm
content: QuoteLead is a lot cheaper. I think unless it involved killing people, lead will be around forever just because it's cheaper.QuoteLead shot, you mean? I have never heard of a regulation requiring you to hunt with lead free bullets.ROHS for guns. Brilliant.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 06:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 16, 2019, 06:32:47 pmYep, some European regions have outlawed lead rifle projectiles for hunting and as you may well know many places around the world prohibit lead shot for gamebird hunting too.In both cases (shot and projectiles) lead is ballistically superior to the alternatives.

author: Wigo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 07:38:49 pm
content: To be fair most projectil jackets are made out of brass. I have a little bit of experience in this field, better said on the topic of shooting with worn out barrells, and it takes a fair ammount of bullets to wear out a barrell till it really has an impact on the accuracy it self (but i am not reffering to shots on targets a few 1000 yards away, that is another story).In my oppinion for pistols and rifels there is no suitable alternative to bullets. In therms of ammount/kg you can carry. Railguns, or every other electric system would require some type of battery or there off.But if you get a little bigger that these things would/will be a game changer in a few years time.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:16:07 pm
content: Read this...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CupronickelAnother very good source of data for the keyboard kids sitting in mom and dad's basement is the Speer Reloading manual. This was pretty much my bible on reloading.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:19:14 pm
content: QuoteIt makes sense for bird shot. Ducks eat them where they come to rest on the bottom of a marsh. I wonder what animals are eating bullets.QuoteFor a pistol, yeah, forgot about wearing it out. High velocity rifles wear out, mostly from erosion in the throat, I imagine from the higher pressure = higher temperature spike, vaporizing steel.QuoteThe keyboard kids probably know as much about the physics as the 70 yr old experts in reloading/ballistics. There's a lot of incorrectly linked cause and effect and bad physics in the field, because rednecks like guns. There's a lot of real world knowledge that works, but the explanations/reasonings of an expert are sometimes quite laughable. When a bunch of  get together and try to explain/understand stuff above their paygrade, a certain amount of BS can become entrenched into a body of accepted knowledge.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 16, 2019, 08:19:14 pmNone, again ROHS against a naturally occurring element that for hunting use adds very low levels of lead to the environment.Quote from: KL27x on July 16, 2019, 08:19:14 pmThis ^^Plus accelerated wear resulting from lack of barrel maintenance/cleaning.Stainless barrels are better in this regard as powder deposits and their hygroscopic tendencies don't have the same corrosive effect as they do on steel barrels......rust and pitting.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:49:20 pm
content: I doubt their shoot em up video games teach them much about physics.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 08:52:04 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 16, 2019, 08:49:20 pmLOL

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2019, 09:04:06 pm
content: QuoteNe'er does shooting and reloading. At least the kid knows how to use the internet.When a bunch of [insert enthusiasts of just about anything] get together and try to explain/understand stuff above their paygrade, a certain amount of BS can become entrenched into a body of accepted knowledge. And/or bits and pieces of info that has been published or explained correctly will get perverted/corrupted into nonsense.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:25:31 am
content: You're better off just loading a weller with bullets and gun powder and overloading it and waiting to see what happens. I guess this would be more like a bomb at this point. A bomb with no fuse.

author: MyHeadHz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 02:32:24 am
content: TBH, I would actually like to see more ideas on this, but I don't know much about the topic.Perhaps just taking a larger cap and dumping it into a smaller one would make all the electrolyte turn to vapor quick enough.If it can't be done fast enough, something would need to hold back the pressure until it pops, and then somehow direct that energy.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 04:51:02 am
content: inb4 capacitors are banned in england after street youth is found shooting at each other

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 05:31:13 am
content: Quote from: MyHeadHz on July 17, 2019, 02:32:24 amAnd that is the problem as you have to beat the already ms lock times !Holding a rifle still enough for a period while a cap decides when to go pop is detrimental to precision accuracy where fast ignition is key to good results.Even with current traditional reloading components there are preferences for some models of primer as they give better/faster/more consistent ignition.