yet another perpetum mobile scam? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 12:36:02 am
content: Just got an email from a friend of mine where he points on yet another free energy generator:"....Magnetic Energy Systems ("MES") has harnessed the power of permanent magnets to produce and transfer energy at a higher level of efficiency than ever before recorded. These facts have been confirmed by the Wyle Laboratories, Inc., one of the nation's leading independent testing laboratories."here is a full article:http://pesn.com/2014/07/16/9602516_Magnetic-Energy-Systems_gets_third-party-validation_of_overunity/Friend of mine wants to get involved with these guys and asks for an opinion. I really don't think it's a good idea 'cause this seems to break laws of thermodynamics. I don't have deep enough physics knowledge but I feel that there should be a gotcha. Any suggestions on how to evaluate this project?

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:45:49 am
content: That is interesting. Alot of the people on PESwiki are pretty serious and for this to appear there I find interesting. Of course I dont pay much attention to that site either so I am not too sure. Maybe this kinda thing is normal there.After reading how they do it, it sounds like it may actually be plausable. The basics is that sliding two magnets apart is easier than pulling them directly away from each other(or vice versa and moving directly towards each other). I dont know the exact calculations, but for the first time, I think this may actually be plausable. I wouldnt go off of this without more research though. So this seems like they may actually have thought of a loophole in how this stuff works. More research needed though.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:49:28 am
content: Immediately choked on this:QuoteThe very third sentence is fallacious. There's no "energy inside magnets", the kinetic energy of the magnet leaping was just formerly the potential energy of the magnet being forced into the field.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:58:27 am
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on July 17, 2014, 02:45:49 amOne may be easier than the other, but both take the same amount of energy.(Actually, thanks to friction, sliding magnets apart takes slightly more energy than pulling them apart.)

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 03:34:08 am
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 17, 2014, 12:36:02 am"Rich Wise, a professional in the magnet world, for three decades has been pursuing a way to harness magnetic energy" I didn't know there is a "magnet world"He wasted three decades of his life.It's that simple: if someone has built a "free energy generator" (and the cited Wyle report claims this), show at least a video of the machine running without an external energy source or a battery. If he can't do this, forget the project.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 08:26:10 am
content: Seems to me he has discovered the magnetic drive something that has been around for many years, but they are certainly not loss-less.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 10:02:43 am
content: QuoteIsn't that called a gearbox?"Rich Wise", maybe should be renamed "Poor Lying Scammer". My thoughts anyway.

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 01:18:14 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on July 17, 2014, 08:26:10 amI thought so too. What puzzles me is that report from Wyle Laboratories where they claim more that 100% system efficiency which doesn't compute in my world:

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 01:53:02 pm
content: I really don't get all the free energy scams. If you really did discover a magic way to extract energy from the background nothingness, then wtf? The plan is the following:1 - take bank loan as seed money. Lets say house sized amount2 - make small generator3 - sell excess power4 - pay off 1)5 - more of 3)6 - make bigger generator7 - sell more excess power8 - become exponentially rich9 - bwuuahahaahah the power!!!All you have to do is not get captured & tortured somewhere between 1 and 9.So all those scammers can bugger off to Alpha Centauri on an infinity powered ion drive.Optionally skip step 4, and just acquire the bank at a later stage.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:02:39 pm
content: In fact, it works. You have to put a generator on Newton. Every time someone makes a free energy claim, he is turning in the grave. We can use that energy.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:04:32 pm
content: QuoteSo, either some additional energy is being provided or there is a systematic error in the measurements.

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:23:21 pm
content: Here is a small fact. If an efficiency formula computes to more than 100% the formula is incomplete. At best they can say they made a highly efficient energy scavenging system.What most of these scammers fail to mention is the earth is a huge magnet and never include it on their calculations.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:35:21 pm
content: Quote from: WarSim on July 17, 2014, 02:23:21 pmWell, I don't see a problem using the Earth's magnetic field and it that's the case maybe there is something to it? Anyways my gut tells me it's a scam. question is how to prove it's a scam?

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 02:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 17, 2014, 02:35:21 pmProve it to whom.It is impossible to prove anything to the deluded without breaking many laws.It is very simple to prove it is a scam to the scammed once they start asking how dose this really work.A work colleague fell for the Bernoulli Machine scam. He made a battery charger. He would use one exciter battery to charge two other batteries. He though it was working until I convinced him to test the charge density of the two charged batteries. It turned out there was less energy stored in the two batteries than in the now depleted original battery.He still though they were "cool". So he still worked on them but to see how efficient he could make the system. Aka how long he can get it to run with a introducing a fixed amount of energy.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 03:42:25 pm
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 17, 2014, 02:35:21 pmEasy. But not giving them free money, and wait until they reach step 9 on their own. Just don't hold your breath waiting for it.

author: gregallenwarner
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 03:43:50 pm
content: Theonlytruly perpetual thing that exists is that perpetual energy scams will continue popping up ad infinitum.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 03:46:42 pm
content: Nah. Humanity will be long dead and forgotten before the universe and the laws that govern it goes *splat*.Or maybe there are alien civilizations plagued by perpetual energy scams as well. I already feel sorry for them. I can only hope they didn't invent laywers.

author: corrado33
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 04:00:18 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 17, 2014, 03:41:51 pmI... hope... this is a joke?You cannot break the laws of thermodynamics. Nothing has been found to actually do it. (Unless you put ridiculously strict constraints on a system like "For extremely short periods of time.") And it's surely not going to happen by some crackpot experimenting in his garage with magnets. If someone was actually smart enough to even think about making a highly efficient power source, they'd be employed by the highest bidder for a crap ton of money.It's funny how there have been years nay decades of people claiming free energy machines yet not one has been commercialized? Interesting hu? Don't you dare bring up big corporation (energy) conspiracy theories. It honestly makes me sad the amount of money/time people spend on these things.

author: WarSim
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 04:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: corrado33 on July 17, 2014, 04:00:18 pmNow I know that is a joke. Those kind of people get fired or pushed out of the companies with the capital to take advantage of such discoveries. At least according to recorded history.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 04:40:37 pm
content: QuoteWow. As if someone never heard of power density.It's the same as saying that a little capacitor stores more energy than an AA battery because it makes more of a bang, so to make an overunity device you should charge the capacitor repeatedly, and then discharge it back into the battery.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 04:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: Tac Eht Xilef on July 17, 2014, 02:58:27 amAh yes, friction is a good thing to note. Well, send one in, knock it down and the next claim will be along shortly.

author: corrado33
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 06:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: WarSim on July 17, 2014, 04:32:55 pmSure, after the person already worked there long enough for the company to figure out how to take advantage of that smart person's idea.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:04:24 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 17, 2014, 03:41:51 pmFACT: China already started using theese generators. In the Bermuda triangle, no compass works. They placed their generators exactly on the other side of the globe.What happens if they need more energy?FACT: Birds are using their built in compasses to travel long distances. You can distract a bird with this genrator. What happens if millitary start using the magnetic generator as a weapon? You can kill the birds by controlling them to a magnetic loop, they can never escape. Without birds the entire population of a continent dies.This is the long planned revenge of the Illuminati, the NSA, and the remnants of the third reich.I say we should de-militarize all magnet. We dont need another dual-pole cold war.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 12:24:51 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on July 17, 2014, 02:04:41 pmWhat's the phrase- a fool and his money are easily parted? Can't remember who the tag line belongs to but I like the idea of not killing stupid people, just removing safety labels and letting natural selection run the course. SWMBO got a good laugh out of that also.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 12:54:54 pm
content: QuoteI think I may have just invented magnetic money. Guaranteed foolproof.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 01:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on July 17, 2014, 02:04:32 pmMy bet is on it being either a ridiculously stupid mistake like failing to account for power factor or he's figured out a way to fool the instruments.All the "free energy magnetic motor" bullshit I've seen appears to be just people making use of very low-friction bearings. Having something heavy spin at what looks like a constant rate for a video that lasts tens of minutes is not hard to do when the bearings a good enough.

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 01:38:03 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on July 19, 2014, 01:31:11 pmWhat puzzles me here is the claim of >100% efficiency which was recorded and documented (as they say). How to disprove it? I might be able to see the experiment myself at some point and wanna know what to look for to figure out how they fool everybody.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 03:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 19, 2014, 01:38:03 pmYou dont need to prove anything. It is against the first law of thermodinamics.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Law_of_Thermodynamics

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 03:46:43 pm
content: Has any one Googled Wiley engineering, I just have and came up with.http://eu.wiley.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-350463.htmlThey appear to sell books and these people are concerned with mining.http://www.wileyconsulting.net/And I don't think it's this company creating that report eitherhttp://www.wiley-eng.com/about.htmSo who is, unless the report is phoney as well.The site talks about Wiley engineering and at the bottom of the report there is Wyle laboratories in small print which is which who did the report or is this man taking some companies name in vain.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 05:28:20 pm
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 19, 2014, 01:38:03 pmThat's easy: Connect the output to the input. It will spin faster and faster, until it creates a small black hole and then it disappears. Don't forget to record a video of this event for Youtube. Caution: Wear a lead gown because of the gamma radiation of the black hole.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 05:46:05 pm
content: I only know of one source of infinite energy and it uses a combination of cats and buttered toast together with a carpet.We all know that cats always land on their feet and that a slice of buttered toast always lands butter side down on a carpet. So, take one cat and strap a slice of buttered toast to its back (buttered side upwards). If you then drop the assembly towards a carpet there will be a conflict between the cat and toast and it will hover above the carpet rotating faster and faster.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 07:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: Prime73 on July 19, 2014, 01:38:03 pmFirst step would be to contact that lab (they have been sold to another company, see below) and ask if they really did that measurement, if it was for the particular device or something else, etc.Quote from: G7PSK on July 19, 2014, 03:46:43 pmAsk them:http://www.nts.com/locations/huntsville

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 07:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 19, 2014, 07:02:33 pmthanks for the link. Contacted the lab. Lets see what response I get if any.