[WTF] Coffee spil, repair (working) MacBook Pro 1.200 EUR ? (~ 1400 USD) ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 04:52:13 pm
content: Hi All,Friend of mine spilled some coffee over the table. That creeped inside his MacBook Pro (guessing via the air vents). Now at first it kept working but a few weeks later started to give problems.At this point,it still runs, but from the wall power. Only on the battery it doesn't.Brought it to a repair store. They come up with the following quote:- replace logic board (i5 2.3 Ghz / 8 GB)- replace battery + case (not a clue what that is supposed to be)- replace fan- replace speakersTotal E 1.200,00 (incl 21 % VAT). (New one is E 1.700,00).Isn't that a bit steepAnybody here that willing to shine his/her light on this? Legit or a total rip-off?Attached picture with the coffee damage. You see some coffee here and there.Much obliged.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 04:55:44 pm
content: Well - if they are just ripping out all of those parts and replacing them -it sounds ok. But if you could find some one to repair said motherboard it would be much cheaper. If it works on PSU and not battery, I would suggest you try to find a proper repair shop.

author: ezalys
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 04:57:21 pm
content: Total and complete ripoff when it's probably fixable by tracing the charging circuit from the battery after washing the coffee off using an ultrasonic bath. I can't imagine this would be more than a 400 dollar fix, if that... ESPECIALLY if the unit still functions just fine on AC power.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:00:38 pm
content: Is the quote from an official repair shop or a 3rd party? From watching Louis Rossman's videos I've gotten the impression that the official shops don't really do component level repairs, they just tell you they need to replace the whole board and quote you insane numbers for it.By the sound of it the problem is somewhere in the battery circuit and might be fixable at a reasonable cost. I can't really tell from the pictures, someone who knows this better might take a better look.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: timgiles on January 11, 2019, 04:55:44 pmYea, I would not call it a repair. Its just replacing parts (price is probably right for the parts, question is if this is the way to repair it), building a new Mac :

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: JackJones on January 11, 2019, 05:00:38 pmFrom a service point, suggest by Apples website (holland). So 'official'. Now Apple self also has dubious tactics (see youtube Louis Rosmann), so can you trust them?Yeah my guess was also its been shorted around the charging circuit. You can see the coffee, apparently a Latte (so some milk foamisch).I don't understand why didn't just first tried cleaning it? Takes a few minutes, and it might work? But replacing fan and speakers... I don't know, I'm no expert but ....smells (and that's not the lovely smell of coffee!). They just looked what 'hit' coffee (well everything) and listed all parts (that's how it looked to me).

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:34:42 pm
content: Sounds normal for an out of warranty repair at an official Apple repair shop. Liquid damage is always a massive headache to deal with especially if it wasn't cleaned immediately. It'll seep between and under chips then start corroding the leads/balls.Quote from: onesixright on January 11, 2019, 05:04:53 pmNo guarantee that it'll be reliable after that. The official repair shops will have strict guidelines from Apple about what they can do and usually it is just get an entire new replacement part. If they deviate from the official repair manual then they risk being struck off the official repair list and lose access to spares.You friend can try asking for a quote at an unofficial repair shop that does component level repairs but still probably won't be that cheap. They'll need to spend some time finding a reputable one as there will be lots of that don't have a clue or just outsource it to somebody else.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:56:04 pm
content: in "premium brand" world, there is no such thing as component level repair. let alone "i want to hack this or that" notion or this forum. lets face it, they are the expertat making money because that what they do their proffesion.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 05:57:17 pm
content: All of those parts could be legitimately damaged by liquid. Something might be washed, something repaired (mobo). But it's a lot of work with uncertain result. Official service center, especially apple unlikely to bother with that and will just replace everything where coffee got to.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:26:49 pm
content: Edit: Oops, I didn't notice you provided a picture. Looks like a lot of magic smoke escaped. You're going to have to pay the piper, I'm afraid.I've had (and recovered) from multiple liquid spills on my macbook pro. It sounds like at least the charging circuit for the battery is damaged. On mine a transistor was blown. Replaced with new battery and the charging problem was solved(charging circuit comes with battery).The other thing I've done after a spill is to open the unit and thoroughly cleaned board with IPA and a fine brush and kimtech wipes. This fixed some intermittent problems I was having.Usually, the keypad gets damaged (replaced at least 3 times -- yes, i never learn). Not sure how new your macbook is, mine is early 2013 model so replacement parts are available from ifixit or ebay, etc.-SteveBTW, replacing the keyboard is a royal PITA

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:32:20 pm
content: That's how virtually all repair works these days. Being a repair tech doesn't pay well enough to attract the really talented sorts, it makes more sense from a business perspective to swap out assemblies. Apple is not unique here, I don't think any computer repair shop or factory service center is going to do a component level repair on a motherboard.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:50:06 pm
content: Make sure the battery is removed. (have you tried simply cleaning just the battery assembly, or swapping in another battery if one is available to try that? Also, have you triedresetting the Power ManagerandPRAM?)That may be the fix needed right there and it costs nothing. Try that first but even if it fixes everything you should still remove the dried coffee as below.After there is no power on the unit, I would copy elsewhere or remove the hard drive with your stuff on it. You need to be able to evaluate whether the remaining things you do work without the stress level of losing work that hasnt been backed up, best is to have a bootable external drive with a basic OS install for repairing your Macs.I would purchase some distilled (deionized) water (NOT TAP WATER!) andin an ESD-safe settinguse small amounts of distilled water and cotton or better yet foam swabs to clean off the visible coffee and sugar with tiny amounts of plain water being careful to use the minimum possible amount. Water is best for removing ionic contaminants like salts and sugar. Where there is PCB and lots of SMD caps which might provide a place where water and dissolved sugar might remain longer (underneath caps) I would also try (99%!) IPA after the water which dries faster and has a water removing effect. Use lintless foam swabs and rubbing to do this. Be very careful. After you're satisfied all dried coffee and sugar has been removed, dry it off for at least a day or two with hot air blowing on it - and also if you can put it in the direct sunlight to dry before you re-apply power. Thatmaybe all you need to do. Its worth trying.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 06:53:32 pm
content: See if you can find one with just a smashed screen, swap that out for this ones guts and sell the remains individually (top case, “spares motherboard”, “lid assembly smashed screen”. You can half that repair bill at least and walk away with something that isn’t going to die two weeks doan the line.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 10:15:34 pm
content: Louis Rossman might be able to fix it for less... but there will be component replacement required since I can see some burnt-out inductors (or is that just a stain?)

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 10:50:03 pm
content: I never appreciate why some repair shops rejects water damage Handphones for example and why they charge so expensive until I repair one for myself. Imagine the Pins of the ICs, it look normal until you lightly probe it and it crumbles like dusts, I am serious, pieces of metal, physically looks alright but crumbles like dusts. All the traces and thru holes were a gonna. Multi-layered boards, I can forget about tracing. Just too much engineering manhours and not viable.But yours IMHO, don't look that bad for "NOW". But you cannot waste anymore time. You need to neutralize the corrosives on the board quickly with baking soda + distilled water paste. Few of the components, need to be lifted up, neutralize and resolder. Maybe few pads need to be jumpered. If you are handy with Hot Air Gun and are confident in working with SMD components, you have a microscope, you can save yourself alot of money. Careful DIY, probably 3 hours of your time, less than $0 ~ $20 on components, that's my projection.But if you had never worked with small SMD, then the only choice is finding a real "FRIEND" to do it for you. If you find some people in this blog, just be aware that some are "merchants" and some depends on repair for a living.So there you go, 3 hours of Engineering Hours + $20. My projection for DIY.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 12:03:45 am
content: Quote from: Armadillo on January 11, 2019, 10:50:03 pmWhat are you going to neutralize with baking soda? There is no acid to neutralize. Baking soda by itself will likely cause corrosion. Corrosion need to be removed in ultrasonic bath filled with adequate solution and what is already damaged needs to be fixed. Simply using brush won't remove that crap from under SMT components.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 12:15:30 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 11, 2019, 10:15:34 pmLouis Rossman is a special case though, it's certainly not realistic to expect someone of his ability to work in every computer store. People of his expertise are rare, and usually they can make better money doing something else. He just got lucky and found a niche repairing high margin designer electronics.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 12:43:38 am
content: https://www.hunker.com/13423099/how-to-remove-rust-with-baking-sodahttps://www.instructables.com/id/Removing-Rust-With-Baking-Soda/Quote from: wraper on January 12, 2019, 12:03:45 am

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 01:51:13 am
content: QuoteI imagine this is why he is constantly angry. His business is profitable because he does the work, himself. If he tried to turn it in an actual business... like the kind you can manage/oversee while not repairing laptops all day and/or telling other people how to repair laptops all day, I think he would quickly find out how hard it is to find people willing and able to do this for an hourly wage.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 03:02:54 am
content: I bet it still works with a little cleaning with distilled H2Oandaresetof thePower ManagerandPRAM!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 09:13:04 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on January 12, 2019, 01:51:13 amHe has actual business with employees.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 09:45:37 am
content: Since this has not been diagnosed, probably it would be a good idea to eliminate the "catch you" situation that the battery is "COINCIDENTALLY" dead and not related to the spill kind of situation before you part with the $$$$$$$$$.Though unlikely, still no harm eliminating.But still, those traces of "spill" need to be quickly resolved before it etch into more vital locations.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2019, 06:53:06 pm
content: Does the battery in a Macbook have a built in protection circuit? If that got wet then it's possible that it tripped or failed.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 04:40:51 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 12, 2019, 06:53:06 pmThere is a three key combination you hold down when you boot toreset the parameter RAM(PRAM)and another similar procedure to boot into areset of the Power Manager.I would strongly suggest trying that, after cleaning it carefully.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 05:18:23 am
content: Why would you want to do those when the computer is working under? [adapter power]Quote from: cdev on January 13, 2019, 04:40:51 am

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 05:33:39 am
content: Why would you clear a code on an OBD2 diagnostic display on a car after something had been changed, possibly fixed?Its like that. It tells the computer the condition that made it change behavior might have been resolved. Don't do it until you've cleaned out the coffee and dried it thoroughly and dont use tap water. Do you know what distilled water is? Use that. And go sparingly on it. Remove all power first. Especially the battery. If there is any visible damage to the battery you may want to get another battery. Don't use anything besides distilled water. Dry it well. Dry it for a day or two with warm air, not hot air, before re-applying power,

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 05:37:15 am
content: You might as well be clear with everything else this action also clear to OP or are you clear yourself?Quote from: cdev on January 13, 2019, 05:33:39 am

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:30:59 am
content: How are you supposed to know the problem was fixed if you don't clear the code? Once a given fault code is stored, it will persist whether the problem remains or not. You can't tell if the fault still exists without clearing the code. It's like a circuit breaker, if a fault causes the breaker to trip, the only way to tell if the fault has been fully resolved is to reset the breaker and see if it trips again.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:45:43 am
content: As a mac user your friend should be accustomed to being regularly screwed.>at first it kept workingI poured coffee into my computer, but it kept working, I guess its okoil was leaking from under my car, but it kept working, I guess its okfridge started smoking, but it kept working, I guess its oktreat it as a tax on stupidity> it still runsno problem then>Total E 1.200,00 (incl 21 % VAT). (New one is E 1.700,00).>Isn't that a bit steepthats like a weeks pay in NL, probably less to someone using Apple, sounds reasonable.Now on a serious note a word of warning about Apple users, especially ones that run flooded computers for couple of weeks like nothing happened - If you try going the cheap route and something goes wrong its going to be all on you.>You see some coffee here and there.Thats great news if all you care about is cleaning, charging circuit is fired. Board might be corroded in half a dozen different places and fail later randomly even after fixing current problems.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:49:05 am
content: Wonder what "Codes" did OP said?Also you mean battery not detected and when battery is put in, the code is not cleared itself? [for a working set].Also be clear about clearing codes and "RESET".Quote from: james_s on January 13, 2019, 06:30:59 am

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:52:23 am
content: @RaszAgree. OP should be aware that if he continues to power up the computer now, its like electrolysis in action and accelerate the corrosion with the oxidative rancidity supplying the O2 in the slimes of coating.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 07:17:42 am
content: Quote from: onesixright on January 11, 2019, 04:52:13 pmHave you search Louis's YT channel for his exact model/year of macbook.For each model the fault from liquid damage is very similar if not the same 90% of the time. (Since the design means liquid will always find the same lowest point to get into the PCB).There's a good chance Louis already has a video showing the exact problem and how to fix it.Although i think he does a lot more MacBook's than MacBook Pros.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 10:31:46 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 11, 2019, 06:32:20 pmYears ago I interviewed at a company that repaired HP's mother/system board returns, aced the interview and the practical test (first time I'd ever used a BGA rework 'robot', really interesting piece of gear) then received a job offer £5000 lower than the salary for the temporary job I was doing swapping boards for a HP warranty service provider, using the very same boards the interviewing company were repairing for HP.Apple are not unique, there are very few (any?) who offer component level repair, it's far more efficient and easier to guarantee a board level swap.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 11:57:00 am
content: Thank you for for the replies.Maybe it would be cool to make a YT video by someone with a microscope to see what now truly happens on the traces. With respect to time, when coffee, water, etc. is been in contact with a PCB.I’m very curious how much times (days, weeks, months?) passes before it starts ‘eating’ the traces and sms components and it becomes almost impossible to repair.Sent from my X using Tapatalk

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 01:34:08 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on January 13, 2019, 11:57:00 amJessa already did a video like, that, itsseconds. Afair first blown components and eaten traces show up in under a minute.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:29:36 pm
content: Blown components can happen almost instantaneously if less that completely pure water gets into the right place. Years ago I repaired a hard drive for somebody after a drink got spilled on the computer. It blew one of the mosfets that drives the spindle motor, happened as soon as liquid drilled in.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 06:59:01 pm
content: If you've cleaned up all the visible coffee/sugar residue you should try this before you consider it to be permanently broken requiring any parts replacement. Also, if the battery still is not working I would borrow a battery from a friend and see if it works with a different one. It may just need a replacement battery.DO THESE THREE EASY THINGS..How to reset your Mac's NVRAM, PRAM, and SMChttps://www.macworld.com/article/2881177/macs/how-to-reset-your-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.htmlAlso seehttp://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295http://www.macworld.com/article/2018853/when-good-macs-go-bad-steps-to-take-when-your-mac-wont-start-up.html

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 08:55:54 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on January 13, 2019, 01:34:08 pmInteresting. You happen to have a link or a title? Thanks!Sent from my X using Tapatalk

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2019, 10:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on January 13, 2019, 08:55:54 pmbad memory, It was Louis not Jessa

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 03:22:08 am
content: QuoteSure. I just bet a lot more gets done when he's there vs when he is not.Every repair Louis does affects his bottom line. And it is something he enjoys doing and which his customers and his viewers appreciate.For an employee, there is only so much of this that is a new learning experience. Then it's just as boring as flipping burgers. But instead of being paid for physically being present and performing a simple task, this task has dozens of steps and tiny parts and is irreducible to a simple algorithm. To do it, you have to use your mind. And to have your mind occupied much of the day with someone else's complex but ultimately repetitive and thankless task is sheer torture.Much of the work and memory recall needed is also dependent on the individual workspace and how it is setup. Like a parrot grow up in Africa and knows what food grows where at what time of the year. But to the parrot this is useful information. To an employee, this makes much of the knowledge and memory space they have to devote to this job more or less useless for anything else. And everyone has their own individual preferences and thought process. So the employees are guaranteed to eventually know how to do this better than the owner (at least think they do) and be under that constant stress and unhappiness of knowing better (or at least thinking they do) but having to do it the owner's way. With limited space and equipment, you can do it only way without total chaos ensuing, and there are probably 100 inconveniences and compromises every day. Many reasons why this type of work is often more economical to be contracted out to individuals and small business with a $$ for results approach rather than to try to pay employees to do it.A business like this, the size of this, you are servicing dozens or different models and devices. Each gets broken down into dozens of parts and need dozens of unique screws and fasteners. And these things are each owned by some customer and have to go back together. There are parts everywhere. There are used/broken/donor boards everywhere. There are hundreds of reeled components and other stuff everywhere. And unless you take ownership of it all, it all looks more or less like junk. It is hard to get someone who doesn't own it to take ownership over your own particular brand of crazy in how you organize this mess, because there is no really one good way to do it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:34:16 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on January 13, 2019, 10:42:27 pmI was almost expecting him to advertise a new service at the end: conformal coating.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:49:38 am
content: QuoteI imagine people pay this for the data and to avoid the time and labor of setting up a new computer.My rule of thumb on anything that doesn't weigh over 100 lbs... If I am not happy to shell out the $$ for a replacement of any equipment that goes down, I wasn't happy to buy it in the first place. I don't buy the best of anything that I can afford. I buy what I can afford to replace.It's coffee, not a defect. If Apple took the approach of attempting to authorize/endorse a cheaper repair, the company that did the repair will own the warranty on that. If one problem person out of 100 has a future problem, it doesn't matter if it's completely unrelated, even. To them, it was a faulty repair, and it needs to be fixed again, for free, of course. Even if you refuse, you spend time and energy spent dealing with the customer. And today, one or two unhappy people with the right Instagram followers will destroy your business.If the steep cost deters you from repairing your computer, no one cares. It's that expensive because no one wants to repair your computer. It's not personal. You are probably perfectly reasonable. It's the 1:100 customer that ruins everything. Although in the US, specifically, it seems to be more like every other customer.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:22:17 am
content: I show some extensive looking Mac corrosion that worked fine after a clean upin this thread here.Just some insights, there is no difference between a Mac and anything else to repair. You may need a better iron and some magnification as it's modern electronics but the troubleshooting is all the same.Electronics component repair is getting harder to sustain as a business because many people board swap (very simple) as a sideline to other services, there is a lot of people out there doing it. For Rossman doing component repair it's sustainable because he charges a super high hourly rate masked as a flat rate service. Like every other schmoo he has worked out if you repair something expensive enough, customers will pay hundreds of dollars and be none the wiser. His service is nothing special globally, there are several people in my area doing laptop component repairs they just don't specialize specifically inmoneyMac. You normally have to ask around a bit to find the proper repairers, just like proper mechanics etc.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 07:37:53 am
content: QuoteExcept this isn't a ripoff. This is what is costs.If you have a particular problem with your computer, and you find some info on how to repair that specific thing, you might gladly spend an hour taking it apart and carefully laying out all the parts and pieces. Then do the repair. Then spend another hour putting it back together. And then spend another half an hour taking it back apart because you forgot one connector. And when you're done, there might not even be any lumps or bumps where a wire accidentally got pinched between the housing, somewhere. You might even have no screws leftover. And it might work perfectly. Then you'll think how cheap it is and how much of a ripoff the certified repair center is. You think heck, if they do this for a living, it would all go so much faster and easier, and it would take only 30 minutes. Because they have all the proper tools and workstations and experience.If you could run a business where you only repair one problem on one model of laptop, and the customers all line up to drop off their laptops with the one specific problem, then that might be true. And if this was the case, everyone and their uncle would be opening a competing business. Think Xbox heat gun repair.If your 1700.00 laptop "still works" (just not with the battery), then use it with the cord. Or buy a new computer and transfer all your data and sell your "working computer" for what the market will bear. It might just not be worth fixing to you. Apple is evil in some ways what with intentional obsolescence and the whole bricking of phones with firmware update, but high repair cost and only doing board swaps is not evil. Every industry does this. It is the only way to do it on a large scale. The fact they honor certified third party repairs at all is a good thing.Doing component level repair is not amenable to a large company for another reason. Trust. You might trust your local mechanic. I've had a good one, here or there. But a faceless corporation telling you, "sorry it wasn't the cheap problem I told you about. It is the problem that costs thousands," you are not going to be happy.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:01:16 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on January 14, 2019, 07:37:53 amI totally agree with all the above, it's really easy to look at a repair bill and think it's a rip off, people think that because 'all you have to do' it should be cheap, the equipment to do component level repair properly is not cheap, premises, wages, taxes, insurance also come into play and $200 an hour or more is not expensive, I used to jokingly comment every time I drove past a computer repair shop about how long they would last, I was rarely wrong.People seem to think that repairs should be free because equipment is cheap, because equipment is expensive, because 'but I haven't had it long', 'but it was only a little bit of vomit' (true story) and it has always been thus.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:10:33 am
content: I'm not the repair type for laptops, but I've done it for people around me sometimes, but no macbooks. As a tip, Louis use some interesting pices of analyse software, that is FlexBV, a commercial expansion from the existing Open-Source 'OpenBoardView'. This expansion brings PDF cross referencing between BoardViews and Schematics. As I can see, it was developed by Paul Danielshttp://pldaniels.com/flexbv/Paul is member 'Inflex' on eevblog. His YT Channel isyoutube.com/channel/UCG59vVRe_wP55tqqWLimnAQRossman explains inyoutube.com/watch?v=jxZqmDljtz4

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:18:07 am
content: I'm just saying anyone who charges hundreds of dollars for any type of minor electronics repair aren't doing customers any favors no matter how they justify it (board swap or component repair). The service industry in general is swamped with people who are bullshit artists, they will say and do anything to get paid.Came across one recently where a company refused to itemize labor on an invoice, it turned out it was several hundred for 30mins work for just a fan swap, not only that they pointed out the fan as part of another service. Nice profitable business.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:22:43 am
content: There is another interesting YT-Channel, that brings down to practise to repair such things:youtube.com/channel/UCooKQlg-HZ0PFAPc4Ymg3RA

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:29:37 am
content: Any indications to you guys, whatsoever?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:40:42 am
content: Just some experience in this area I'd like to add as well. I've done laptop repairs on the side for people for about 15 years now for ref. A long time before that I did prod line rework on milspec kit. Some thoughts:1. Component level repair is not worth it at all. Not even slightly. It's expensive in time, research, tools. The success rate in the short term is not great. The success rate in the long term is not good. I would ONLY ever consider doing component level repair now if it was for data recovery and temporary and the hardware was disposed afterwards. The main problem you have to ask yourself is "does it actually really work afterwards or does it look like it does"? In fact one of the worst things I saw was water damage where someone had bodge soldered the memory bus on the machine. It booted into windows but blue screened once an hour. Didn't even run memtest86 once without errors. Straight in the trash. That's what you're risking. All it takes is takes is a enthusiastic user to run a defrag and all their shit is gone.2. I refuse anything that isn't Apple, Lenovo, Dell or HP now because it's impossible finding out what crap the laptop is assembled from. Everything is made by the lowest bidder apart from the mid-high end business laptops. Anything that is consumer junk bought at retail goes straight in the trash unless it's basic upgrades or noddy stuff like new batteries, keyboard or screens.3. As much as everyone shits on Apple, they have nearly the best repair outcome (only surpassed by Lenovo) becuase the hardware is pretty standard across the board, easy to get hold of, repairs are well documented and there's not a lot of stuff in their kit. It's really easy to to repair. I'm talking laptops here. iPhones are pretty easy to repair as well. I've done tens of them now. iPads are the only sticking point (pun intended). But the parts are going to cost you real money because there is a high demand for parts.4. The second most expensive part of any repair is software failure. Reinstalling OS and getting people's shit back costs nearly as much as replacing the computer.5. The primary expensive part of any repair is DOWNTIME. Not a lot of people realise this. If you have to lose your machine for two weeks for a repairer then that's two weeks lost income. If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to own it.Just as a note I charge £60 an hour for repairs I do, plus parts, plus incidentals, plus VAT. The last person who came to me had a Lenovo T450 with a smashed screen. The screen cost me £45, it took an hour to do it plus an hour of "fix some random stuff in windows". That was £198 inc VAT. You can get a refurb T450 same spec on ebay for £239. Why bother? I mean I'm going to take the money if someone asks me to but why?!?!Component level repair doesn't factor in this at all because even when it comes to "2015 macbook pro" territory, if you really need to kit then component level repair, software failure, downtime are orders of magnitude more expensive and the outcome from anything other than FRU replacement is iffy as hell.The big problem I see is that Louis Rossman has made a lot of noise resulting in a bit of a repair personality cult so everyone looks at component level repair as worth it. For 98% of cases it isn't. For 1% of what is left over it's data recovery. For the last 1% it's personal interest.Edit: just to add I have two Lenovo T440 units that are identical as my daily driver machines. They pay the bills. They are now both heavily modified. If one dies, it gets recyclable parts removed, goes on ebay and the other one comes out of the cupboard and I carry on. I then buy another refurb and apply the same modifications to it in my own time. Mods include FHD display, different touchpad, extended battery, removal of camera and mic and mSATA battery, replacement internal battery, memory upgrade. These are all FRU replacement steps and take about an hour to do a whole machine of mods. Downtime and software downtime are minimised here to a max span of 1 hour which is the optimisation point. Time = money

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 09:51:09 am
content: Here is a couple of my favorite channels I enjoy. I like Sorin as well, but he is more like the Macgyver of repair.https://www.youtube.com/user/1servicecore/videoshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLqBEpeQPZTdhCd0nHWIf6g/videosQuote from: Armadillo on January 14, 2019, 09:29:37 amDiagnosis is crap on pcb, remove said crap from pcb.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 10:04:30 am
content: Very common laptop hardware defects are with power rails, battery loading circuits. The technics and used parts (smd-mosfet's) are so similar in principle, that you can get a handle on something like this, even without a circuit diagram! Yust follow the power rail.Real hardware damage on the address-, data bus, on the other hand, are relatively rare in reality, except for visible corrosion caused by fluid damage.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 02:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 11, 2019, 06:32:20 pmMy Dad and I are IT Engineers and we had an Shop.The major Problem is we are suitable if something happened.Lets say a Customer bring uns an Pc who have an Hardware issue.We change lets say the PSU and the pay some € for. After 3 Month his hole Apartment set in Fire by an Unknown Source.Now the can sue us because our Repaired Pc might be the issue. Nowwehave to prof that the Repair was State of the Art and in all law and regulation.So I would not recommend to any Company to put the Solding Iron out of the Box until the have an good "Evidence Management" and can prof that there Work was in the Law and Regulation.(Like Film the entire process.)

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 03:46:30 pm
content: At least one of you should know Proper Contract Administration and Local Laws, get yourself qualified.Black and White, limits of warranty, terms of acceptance etc....I have seen fly by night serviceman merely distilled water surface clean spill on PCs and push off with 1 week warranty.The key is before you accept to service, you must state clearly your terms of service offered and limits of warranty etc.... and ask customer to agree and sign off, to avoid all unnecessary problems.Proper shop will have a front desk marking all the imaginary scratches on the notebooks or equipment to let customer sign off before they even accept to repair it.Get a lawyer to fight it over.Quote from: Lord of nothing on January 14, 2019, 02:47:10 pm

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:21:13 pm
content: QuoteAgainst the Law. The Min Time is 1 Year.QuoteThe law also say I am an Technician who have more knowledge than the Customer and have to know if somethink could cause any damage to the customer.Lets say you are in the Car fixing Industry and a Customer bring you a Car where the Breaks rotten away and you let the customer leaf the Shop without fix in it or towed away you are in serious trouble because you are the "expert" and you have to know that could cause an accent and you are not prevent the customer.I know it sucks for Companys here. Thats why nobody want to change an faulty Capacitor on a Washing Machine, TV, Monitor,... if something happened or not work after YOU must fix it free of charge orprofthat the fault was there before.Its like when an Cop say you was speeding. Prof that you was under the Speed Limit.Here the Cops can bust you even the indicate your speed just with the naked yey...

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:30:29 pm
content: We have professional doctors here that if you insist to be discharged, you have to sign a "indemnification" agreement.There should be similar provision yes / no?

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:38:43 pm
content: The Problem is trying to be half baked knowledgeable. You don't need a alien to advise you your local laws.Quote from: Lord of nothing on January 14, 2019, 04:21:13 pm

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 04:59:11 pm
content: Furthermore your Austria law says "The burden of proof that defect exist lies with the Consumer".You are self-inflicting unnecessary wounds to yourself, yes / no?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 05:00:30 pm
content: Same in EU. Basically decades of fucking over customers/consumers has had to go full circle.I warranty my repairs for a year or refuse to do them.

author: Bashstreet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 05:35:47 pm
content: I am sorry for the mac-book.This do bring important point.If liquids get spilled on any electrical device unplug it right away and clean and dry it inside out best you can.Keeping using it only leads to instant blow up or slow corrosion.I would advise not keep using it without component level cleaning current flow only increases speed of corrosion. If you have a specialist mac book repairer locally i would take it to him to get estimate.Best of luck !

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 08:05:25 am
content: Quote from: Armadillo on January 14, 2019, 04:59:11 pmIn Austria we have 2 different thinks to translate into English is "warranty" but means different thinks:1) "Gewährleistung" mean it must work for at lest 24Month (with some limitation like an Accu -> 6Month and other thinks) but after 6Month you have to prof that the Fault was during Production and not belong to your usage.2) "Garantie" who could 1:1 translate with "warranty" is something who a Company (Manufacture, Reseller,....) offer on there rules and regulation ontop of the "Gewährleistung".For example a IT Company sell you an HDD with 5Years "Garantie" (aka "warranty") that mean:6Month "Gewährleistung" if the HDD get brocken the Company must prof it was your Fault.6Month - 24Month its up to you to prof that the Fault was during the production24 Month - 60Month "Garantie" here can the Company set any rule the want like: Replace only if the HDD was run <10.000h.So if a Company repair anything what the should you have on the think who got Repaired "Gewährleistung" to. That mean if the charge you for an Board Repair (in this case) after 2x Faulty Repairs you have theright (!)to get a new Board (and the Company must pay for).I dont know how its is in the US but here Louise must declare Bankruptcy soon because he have to refuse many Job because the are to risky or he must buy a lot of new Boards.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 09:31:07 am
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on January 15, 2019, 08:05:25 amLouis doesn't offer a warranty on the repairs. If he did his web site would have it all over it.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 09:38:57 am
content: Here in Austria (maybe Europe to) he must by Law.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 10:26:19 am
content: I mean how do you explain to someone who do not understand the different between Manufacturer and a Commercial entrepreneur entity?Don't even understand voluntary? You give guarantee or you don't want to give any guarantee [example for water damaged equipment].Manufacturer has all the Qualified Inventors, Qualified Designers, Qualified Engineers, Qualified Programmers.How to explain to someone who do not understand what is legally "Qualified" means?And he chose to take the blame for being a technician level?How do you explain to someone who cannot even defend his own repair works?

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 10:31:27 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 14, 2019, 09:51:09 amIs Sorin member of eevblog?

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 10:36:36 am
content: The membership list should clearly distinguish between Human and Invertebrates.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 11:56:46 am
content: Quote from: Armadillo on January 15, 2019, 10:26:19 amAgain if you accept the Job and you Repair it the must work after. There is no way to refuse the warranty on your repair.Quote from: Armadillo on January 15, 2019, 10:26:19 amIn my Chase I was in School and Work for 3,5 Years after that I received an official Diploma or how does it called. Now I can train official Students at Work. Now I am IT Technician and can legally Repair anything who is Related to that.So with my "expertise" I must know when there something is who can harm or bring people in danger. Lets say a loose cable or when the make something flammable and or can electrocuted.For example he had a policy to never sold such "open case" like that:http://antec.com/product/case/torque.phpIf a Children is play around and put the finger in when the Pc is run the could get a shock or even die.Quote from: Armadillo on January 15, 2019, 10:26:19 amyou must check if you can done the job correctly before you accept it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 01:31:18 pm
content: WTF is that case. Why? Looks like a motorbike had sex with a Lenovo desktop.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 07:14:37 am
content: Dammit, bd... now I wanna see that whatever-the-fukkit-is you're talking about!As a service tech in 4 major disciplines over the last 4 decades, most overlapping, my experience tells me a few things looking at this laptop.1) Someone isn't being honest here; not sure if it was OP or his friend. That coffee didn't get spilled under the laptop, next to the laptop, or near the laptop. It got spilled IN the laptop. I can tell just by looking at where it pooled that it ran down through the keyboard. How? Hundreds of such repairs, that's how.2) Whomever it happened to probably tried to just dab it dry and hope for the best. Maybe put it on a towel and let it sit overnight. Then when it worked the next day, thought "No need to tear it down." WRONG. That kind of liquid ingress, unless it's a ToughBook, you ALWAYS need to tear it down and clean it. IMMEDIATELY. If you get in it right away before the liquid dries, you can often clean everything with just a quick rinse of distilled water after disconnecting the battery/power. MUCH LESS assache, much higher success rate.3) Battery was probably drained by liquid shorting active components to the point the BMS in the pack went into shut-down. IF YOU'RE LUCKY you might be able to disconnect from mainboard and recharge the cells directly using a LiPo charger set to very low current to "wake it up". More likely will need replacement battery.cdev hit the nail on the head; disassemble down to the bare board, scrub with soft toothbrush using distilled water then alcohol, then dry mainboard on a towel for a day or two under a incandescent lamp, or on a hot dashboard of a vehicle in the sun... or in a food dehydrator if you have one.While that's happening, clean out the chassis using the same brush & solvents. Clean carefully, use towels/dishcloths to dry, and Q-tips to get into all the nooks & crannies. If there are daughterboards at power/USB/Thunderbolt ports, remove and inspect as well. Clean as needed, reassemble.Putter around with battery while things dry. If you get lucky and you charge the cells and you get voltage at the battery connector, yay! Usually you'll have to plug it in and plug in the AC adapter to get it to turn on though. Whether to spend money on a new battery is up to you; if it's a couple years old, you should probably consider it "PM" and get one coming anyways. Your keyboard is probably gummed up all to hell from the coffee; get one of them coming too unless you're absolutely positive every key works, doesn't hang and is never "intermittent".Reverse disassembly to reassemble. Don't cheap out on reassembly; if you have damaged silicone thermal pads from disassembly, source new ones. Clean/replace thermal grease as needed. Make sure the cooling fan/fins are clean, and that the fan turns free.Cheers, and good hunting;mnemI would totally pay to see that.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 08:51:22 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 16, 2019, 07:14:37 amI have no stake in that. My friend told me what happend and I see No reason why he would lie. We are in different countries, I didn’t see the laptop myself other then the pictures. I think the coffee run into the back via the vents, while picking it up it run more inside. But I dont no that for sure. Not possible?Even, if what you say is true, doesn’t really matter. They charge for speakers (that work), claim the fan runs slower, and at this point it simply works. It was working for almost a month with the battery, but now it only works with wall power.From all the replies it got clear to me it’s just policy. And it makes a bit of sense. If a bad component replacement makes that LT catches fire, Apple will have some bad publicity. These guys don’t do a repair (IMO) they just swap boards.In the world where everything needs to be smaller, there is no eye for repairing anymore. They could design the board more modular so you can replace only certain parts. Now we need to replace 8 GB of RAM, a peffectly working CPU while ‘only’ some few dollar parts broke around the charging circuit. And I don’t even talk about the battery replacement, clued so the hole frame needs to be replaced (400 EUR!). Ridiculous.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 09:12:05 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 16, 2019, 07:14:37 amAforementioned inbreeding.Quote from: mnementh on January 16, 2019, 07:14:37 amThere's a design flaw in the MacBook Pros unfortunately that may have appeared here. There is a seam around the base of the unit. If you spill fluid under the laptop, this via capillary action, sucks up the juice into the chassis. When you inevitably go "oh shit" and turn it over, it rains on the logic board and into the top of the chassis and seeps into the keyboard. It actually comes out of the keyboard and onto the screen.I only know that because I did it once

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 09:37:51 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 16, 2019, 07:14:37 amSorry too qualified, we are looking for someone to grow with the company.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 10:13:01 am
content: Quote from: Shock on January 16, 2019, 09:37:51 am

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 10:19:53 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 15, 2019, 09:31:07 amI think I've heard him mention a limited warranty along the lines of 90 days or three months, but it depends on the type of customer. That may be why it's not listed.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 04:55:47 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 16, 2019, 09:12:05 amYeah, but that mode of ingress would manifest with liquid all around the edges of the board. This board shows drip contamination only.That computer "case" reminds me very much of a RoboCat 270 quadcopter I used to have. Horrible, heavy things; terribly unbalanced. I still have one unbuilt in a box somewhere...I only mention the "Not being honest" part because in every field I've ever served as a tech, the one thing that drives me batshit crazy is when a client gives me some BS story about how they fucked it up. Yeah, yeah, I know you have to expect it to some extent... let a person have their dignity and all. But the flip side of that coin is if you don't tell your fixer the truth about how it happened, they have no way of even guessing what else might be wrong besides what is obvious.As for Apple doing "board swaps" and whole subsystem exchanges... be glad if you can get them to do that. Their stock in trade is "upgrading" you to the newest model, even if your old one is 3 months old. That is actually what their whole ecosystem is built on: Making it so the customer brings in their old busted, goes and shops for an hour or gets lunch in the food court, and when they come back they walk out with all their old shit restored from Apple servers onto the new shiny, only losing a day or two of their eLife. Ka-Ching!Works great, as long as you rightly value your time over money, and as long as you fully buy into the ecosystem and let them back it all up for you.Quote from: Shock on January 16, 2019, 09:37:51 amYeah, wait'll you've heard that a few dozen times in job interviews. You'll lose all sense of humor about it.mnem*Professional Shit-Shoveler*

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 08:19:30 am
content: Yes exactly with Apple. Couple of recent things.Just before Christmas I bought an XR to replace my 20 month old 6s. The 6s had a tiny white spot on the screen where the backlight was uneven so I took it in to get screen replaced before I let my eldest have it. Dropped off at 10AM, did some shopping, picked up at 12:30. Turned out the repair had failed twice due to display calibration problems so they scrapped it and gave me a brand new sealed 6s. Not once did they argue, this was an in warranty replacement free of charge and I didn’t need AppleCare (even though I did have it) and it was done in just over 2 hours.If it was water damaged they’d have charged though. And I expect that so I have insurance

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 09:13:01 am
content: Basically you pay upfront for renting an iDevice for the warranty period. Once they got the money you can do with "yours" device what you want, but at the end Apple still owns it. They seem even to be happy to have it brocken back and replace it. Once the warranty expires, then automagically the iDevice is yours somehow.My guess is 20-30% of Apple retail price is the upfront warranty service that maybe you will not use (best case for them).Bottom line is if they are so good with their curstomer is because they made already a big profit.It's the Apple way to do business, and you don't like it do not buy Apple.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 09:23:09 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 17, 2019, 08:19:30 amYou seem to have all these amazing experiences with Apple, but mine are quite different. Having to plan bringing the device in weeks in advance and claims being made that the problem is operator error. Lots of fun. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the exception.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 10:46:43 am
content: Depends on what country you are in and how much noise you makeIncidentally it’s not all good. I just had to return my new MacBook Air because the keyboard fucked up after two weeks. They didn’t argue but the whole experience was a PITA. I’m now using my old ThinkPad which I have spent a couple of weeks upgrading carefully.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 04:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 17, 2019, 09:23:09 amYou are not of the body. Begone, unbeliever!!!No, seriously... that's because you didn't FULLY buy into the ecology. This requires enabling all services (including the weekly cavity search for undisclosed currency and credit cards with any remaining balance), paying for backup storage on the cloud and allowing them to sell you the extended service plan even though you've already paid for the phone twice over.And of course, if you expect the iDevice to do ANYTHING not explicitly advertised you are in violation of the TOS, and immediately subject to mandatory organ harvesting. No, they don't want your firstborn male child; he'll take too long to mature into a proper revenue-generating pixel-point.mnemIt's only money; not like they're feeding on your SOUL...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 04:44:24 pm
content: You're actually 100% right. You have to note that you are buying an appliance like a washing machine that you just want to work not a computer to fuck around with. Don't say "I want to do X", ask it "how can I do X" and meet it in the middle. Don't fight it. It works like it does for a reason.My TCO for my phone is £40/month including the contract and I make perhaps 50% of my income with it. Works for meIf Oracle made a phone it'd be powered by souls.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 04:55:32 pm
content: One of Louis Rossmann's repair friends, Duke, is Dutch. Not sure how to get in contact with him though.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 05:20:21 pm
content: "A man made it; a man can fix it." ~ my grandfathermnem*Conscientious fixer in the land of disposable everything, even people*

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 05:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 17, 2019, 10:46:43 amThat's what happens when you deviate from the straight and narrow. Glad you're back on the path.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 05:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: onesixright on January 11, 2019, 04:52:13 pm1) Disconnect the battery and remove the MLB PCB.2) MLB: Wash well any residues of coffee with a toothbrush, mild soap and plenty of hot water. Rinse well.3) Power connector(s): the same as the MLB.4) Look closely at everything with a magnifier, keep brushing (softly) with soap and hot water until everything is clean.5) Dry with a hair drier. 1/2 an hour or so should do.6) Mount everything back. Recheck you did nothing wrong. Connect the battery and cross your fingers.7) If it still doesn't work... you've lost nothing but a couple of hours.Good luck!

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 08:22:20 pm
content: OK, if the main board is really messed up, then a very good way to fix this is to buy one on eBay with a broken screen, and either yourself or have a shop transplant your good screen onto the good computer. You might be able to get a good carcass for the transplant quite cheaply. (Or, maybe, not, it varies.)If it is just a lot of dried coffee residue on the main board, then it is possible a good scrubbing with a toothbrush and either water or alcohol might get things working again. But, if as others said "the magic smoke escaped" (I couldn't really tell from the pics) then it could be too difficult to repair the boards.Jon

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2019, 04:37:00 am
content: Yeah, that's essentially what the OP's shop did; presented him with a BOM to build everything but the screen out of FRUs.mnem"You see? Morbid & creepifyin' I got no problem with... as long as she does it quiet-like." ~ Mal Reynolds

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2019, 10:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on January 17, 2019, 08:22:20 pmCoffee leaves brown stains; you might have seen them around.If instead you see molten craters in the chips, like in the red circle in the OP's picture, that's slightly more serious damage...

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 04:07:18 pm
content: *Goes back & looks again*Ummm... I dunno what you are seeing there; looks to me like coffee stains in multiple locations & silastic around those caps in the back. Closeups might be more conclusive, but they are lacking.mnem

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:07:17 am
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 22, 2019, 04:07:18 pmThe marks on those two chips in the red circle look decidedly like volcanic craters to me -- one of them complete with a stream of molten lava...The picture in the original post has quite a decent resolution. If your browser does not let you zoom in, open it in an external viewer to get a closer look.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 11:37:09 am
content: Some laptop manufacturers use conformal coating to make their stuff robust.The rotten fruit brand puts in a piece of paper that discolors when wet and the standard repair is to replace everything inside the case that depends on moving electrons.I would not accept anything from them and would consider it an insult if someone tried to give me somehing made by that brand.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:04:09 pm
content: Wow... that is a really narrow-minded and hateful attitude to have, and that kind of mindless brand-bashing really is not representative of this place as a whole. When you make comments like that, it reflects poorly on you, not on the thing you hate.I believe you can do better. I challenge you to do better.Cheers,mnemIt's a sad day when I'm the voice of reason.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 28, 2019, 04:04:09 pmJust go watch some of Louis Rosmann's videos.He repairs that rotten fruit brand for a living and hates it (almost?) as much as I do.https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rossmann+apple+haterYou may think of me as you like, but I feel no urge to take up the challenge nor spend more effort on that brand.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:29:06 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on January 28, 2019, 04:04:09 pmNot at all, it's an entirely accurate commentary on the pitiful level of customer service that this company provide. They rip customers off on the initial purchase of their poorly designed products and continue to bend them over during their ownership experience.

author: onesixright
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 07:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on January 28, 2019, 04:29:06 pmI don't know where all this hate comes from. I really don't. Wanna talk companies fucking over customers? Goto M$.Bottom line is, that if indeed Apple was developing continuously bad products, they would not be where they are today. For sure they are not perfect, but who is? I run Apple products over 15 years and only once had a issue. A laptop coming back from repair with a dent in the casing. When I came home and found out, called them. They checked the photos and also confirmed it was not there when I brought it in, case was replaced. No questions asked.So why don't we tune it down? Fine to call them out for bad products, but "rotten fruit", you back on the school yard?

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 10:26:17 pm
content: QuoteYou saved the Netherlands.