UPS or Fedex shipping to EU from China? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Durandal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:01:19 pm
content: There are some threads about how DHL more or less scams customers with shipping from China to EU.Has anybody used UPS (or Fedex) for shipping? JLCPCB offers UPS as a shipping option so my question is if UPS (or Fedex) does this same kind of stuff also?Any experience with China mail or whatever the cheap slow option is?Elecrow offers Registered Airmail. Are these options reliable, albeit slow? How slow in practice?I ordered some components from Tayda in Thailand and picked the slow mail option (with tracking). Took about 2 weeks and no VAT or extra fees or hassle (order value was less than 10 EUR). So I'd do that again.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:32:35 pm
content: If it is for hobby of personal use, nothing wrong with the slow boat option. Most PCB prototypes, the cost of the shipping is moot. Speed is king. And in the US, that means DHL, AFAIC. Fedex IE takes a week, here. DHL 2 days.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:41:48 pm
content: At least in Portugal, if you use a parcel service you can be sure that the package goes to customs. And you will pay the parcel se4vice for handling that.So only use it if you are in hurry.Regards,Vitor

author: xdave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:46:46 pm
content: It's not really scamming customers - customs duty and VAT are employed by just about every country in the world and carriers are entitled to pass on their costs for processing and paying them on your behalf. It's nothing unique to importing from China into the EU.UPS and Fedex both charge similar fees for use of their duty & VAT deferment account. All the express carriers will do electronic customs clearance and as they know their own fees, which are more than the £13 value for the UK (I believe other EU countries have similar equivalent values), anything that isn't documents or exempt will automatically raise a charge.Non-express carriers like the local postal services sometimes don't assess packages for duty as it tends to be more those that handle from door to door. (That is not guaranteed though, and note that express airmail or anything that goes via an EMS partner will very likely be assessed by customs at the final/local step.)For reliability of carrier shipments from China to the UK I have found DHL to be the best at hitting their 2-3 day targets. UPS Express is usually 3-4 day and Fedex is a 4-5 day service to the UK.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 06:56:06 pm
content: I think I used ePacket on their website. Slower than DHL. I think it took about a week to deliver. It was processed for customs in UK and delivered by DPD. IIRC customs broker fee (not VAT) was GBP 10.

author: Durandal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 07:58:45 pm
content: Yes I undestand VAT and customs. I also know when there should not be any VAT or duty. I am still waiting for my DHL shipment to be delivered so it still remains to be seen if they charge me 20 EUR for "handling" nothing since there should not be any VAT nor duty on this purchase. It's been sitting in their hub all day so once it got to Finland the delivery speed tapered off significantly. I have sent them the info they have asked for.Anyway, my problem is not with the VAT or duty, it's them charging a pretty large fee that basically doubles their shipping fee and it's way more than value of the goods. This while making it difficult for the customer to handle it in any other way.Anyway, I might give the Registered Airmail a go next time. Especially if DHL charges a fee even though there's no VAT or duty costs for them to handle and it just adds more days to the total shipping time.I have to say I am very happy with my orders from Mouser though. Fedex "Free shipping" for orders over 50 EUR and they pay the import duty. Yeah it's all baked into the parts cost but I know what the cost is and it's delivered quickly and hasslefree. Very good experience so far.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2019, 08:56:52 pm
content: Quote from: Durandal on January 14, 2019, 07:58:45 pmNo VAT limit is EUR22 (including shipping) so DHL shipping by itself already qualifies your order for VAT.

author: Durandal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 11:13:13 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 14, 2019, 08:56:52 pmNot true. According to info on Finnish Customs own web site the 22 Euro limit is without shipping.Today I got en email from DHL saying there is nothing to pay yet the latest tracking info says shipment held waiting for payment. After the item event saying it is released for delivery. Sigh...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 11:30:56 am
content: Quote from: Durandal on January 15, 2019, 11:13:13 amOK, I fund Finland customs calculator. It's strange, if goods do not exceed EUR 22 regardless of shipping, you don't pay VAT. If they goods EUR 22 you pay VAT on both goods and shipping. AFAIK in the rest of the EU, EUR 22 limit includes shipping.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 11:35:02 am
content: Quote from: Durandal on January 14, 2019, 07:58:45 pmAs far as I know they used to charge a fee even if you handled the customs process yourself, so there was no way to avoid it. People complained about that and it was deemed illegal unless the website you ordered from specifically told about any extra fees. I doubt any website would tell you about that so in practice I guess you won't have to pay DHL any fees if you handle the customs process yourself.Quote from: Durandal on January 15, 2019, 11:13:13 amI'm pretty sure they'll just release the shipment and you won't have to pay anything or even send receipts and such to the customs. At least that's the way with Fedex, if the order is under the €22 they just release it without any hassle.

author: Durandal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 11:42:04 am
content: Yes, if goods is over 22 , then you pay VAT on the total including shipping. Based on what I have heard from various people in other EU countries, it should be the same in all of EU. But I have not personally looked into this to see if that is the case. It would not surprise me if each country have their own specific rules. VAT itself varies from country to country, as do every other tax and related rule.In this case DHL themselves finally sent me an email saying there is nothing to pay. But now they still hold the package anyway. Maybe so they can charge storage fees at least...

author: xdave
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 12:14:43 pm
content: The simple formula for calculating EU import VAT due is this:(Goods value + duty + shipping) * VAT rate of importers member countryIf the first part is <= the minimum value it is treated as zero as it is not worth the costs for such little amounts of VAT.In practise there are adjustments to that formula as certain costs are exempt (e.g. loss insurance), the goods themselves may be exempt or attract different rates (e.g. books, children's clothing, etc), or the import might be subject to reduced rates or total deferment (like if it will be immediately exported back out from the EU).Note that is a harmonised EU rule so will apply to Finland as well - only the VAT rate is different between members. (It appears the calculator you have used on Finland's customs site is incorrect.)Running the following through the EU import calculator using Finland as the destination (24% VAT) gives these answers:1) Goods nill value + shipping cost of €25 = import VAT of €6 due on €25 taxable transaction.2) Goods €20 value + shipping cost of €1 = no import VAT due on €21 taxable transaction.Mouser, although often shipping directly from outside the EU, are registered in the EU for VAT and handle the import part themselves and supply you from their EU business (if you look at the shipping declaration you will see they use their EORI as the importer). They can then supply anywhere within the EU customs union without further tariffs, and VAT is collected on the final sale in the usual way. Its the same as buying from Amazon's US site and having it delivered to you in Finland - the shipping declaration will list Amazon EU Sarl as the importer and you as the destination address.DHL, like most (all?) express carriers complete customs clearance on route the moment the package has left the destination country. The clearance process is often indicated on their tracking history list as being held in an actual warehouse in the destination country and then released, but in reality it can still be in the air somewhere near the equator. Sometimes you will then find a later tracking update showing the package is still in another country. If the tracking history shows a charge was raised then you will receive a letter in the coming week (DHL will send an SMS text message too with a payment code if they have your number).In the UK about a decade ago when online shopping was first getting popular individuals suddenly found themselves importing from outside the EU customs union there was a lot of anger about carriers charging for the use of their deferment account and customs clearance/broker services. People were successfully arguing that the carriers must not hold packages hostage until payment was received under our UK laws, but had to release the packages and invoice separately. (The duty + VAT was always payable upfront without a valid deferment, and still is.) As the importer did not enter into any first hand contract with the carrier to provide their broker services the carriers were largely unable to enforce fee collection under contract law. Our laws were then updated to allow the carriers to legally hold packages until their reasonable fees where paid (some still choose to, most will invoice later if you ask them to). The fact that the UK was able to legislate domestically for that suggests that each member state can set their own rules there so the Finnish rules on paying the broker fees may well be different.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2019, 06:51:33 pm
content: "At least in Portugal, if you use a parcel service you can be sure that the package goes to customs. And you will pay the parcel se4vice for handling that."Quote from: xdave on January 14, 2019, 06:46:46 pmI did not mean it like the parcel services are scamming people! That was not my intention - sorry if it came across like that.I just wanted to alert people that parcel services will ALWAYS go through customs, while regular postal services MAY not got through customs. The reason they always go through, as already explained, is because their services alone is usually above the minimum free 21 Euro.Why do some packages sent my regular postal service come without going through customs? Because they get such a high number of packages shipped, that they sort the cheap ones out in a fairly subjective process.Regards,Vitor

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 09:51:09 am
content: I've just vented some of my frustration about DHL here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/jlcpcb-dhl-shipping-to-the-uk/As I already said there my experiences with FedEx are much friendlier.They just send you a bill later with much more reasonable costs i.e. without the EUR 20 "handling fee" (which got added after already paying EUR35 for shipping, and on those EUR20 you pay an extra 21% VAT.