First oscilloscope decision - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 05:52:58 pm
content: Hello,I'm an EE student shopping for used bench test equipment, specifically an analog oscilloscope to get hands-on experience (school is fully online). I'm weighing two options.1) Leader LBO-516https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ele/d/san-francisco-leader-lbo-516/7835012128.html2) A refurbished Tektronix scope from this eBay seller:https://www.ebay.com/str/tektronixoscilloscope?_tab=aboutThe Leader LBO-516 seems a bit more of a purist analog vintage, and I've read that the knobs feel high quality. Plus, I can go pick it up in person. However, it's probably a little older and I have less confidence in its reliability. It doesn't have a "beam find" feature. A Tektronix is presumably opened up, "refurbished" and calibrated by a highly rated seller. Otherwise I'm not sure how they're different.I'm mid-career and doing online school around a full-time job, so not price sensitive, so I'm just trying to figure out which one will be better for the learning curve. I also want one that can easily deal with low (audio) frequencies.Thoughts?Dan^analysis paralysis

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:01:06 pm
content: You didn't specified a budget.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:05:48 pm
content: Have you seen this thread?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:17:19 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 05:52:58 pmWhy specifically an analog scope?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:31:36 pm
content: Audio frequencies, especially the lower ones, can be problematic on analog scopes because of the low refresh rates and limited persistence. If you must have an analog scope, consider getting a hybrid like the Tektronix 2230 that seller has for sale. Don't get any of the TDS versions as while they have green CRT screens, they aren't analog.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:41:37 pm
content: I'd strongly advise against getting an analog scope. First of all, most of them are old junk and secondly they won't be used in any modern day setting. IOW: get a digital oscilloscope. A lot of modern day circuits evolve around a microcontroller so features like protocol decoding are very handy. The same for having measurements.Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2025, 06:31:36 pmBad idea. By now these units are 40 years old. I sold mine 20 years ago and replaced it with a proper DSO.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pm
content: Budget is preferably under $400.Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 29, 2025, 06:17:19 pmI'm taking inspiration from one of David's old videos suggesting that you start with analog to learn scopes with their fundamental controls.https://youtu.be/Xh9FNRpta9s?si=BQLxW3n5AxH5dFtCQuote from: bdunham7I can see that the Tek scopes are hybrid in some sense, where they have controls from the analog era, but some digital features. So that will produce a cleaner trace at audio frequencies?Quote from: nctnicoHmm... I hear that, but if the need for real diagnostic work ever arises, then I can just splurge on a good modern digital scope. This is just for fiddling around during circuits, signals and systems classes (although I did get a couple of Arduino boards).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pmThey have a digital mode "STORE" that can be turned on and off. When off, the scope behaves just like any other analog scope. With the STORE mode turned on, you'll have extended persistence and other features enabled so that you can see infrequent or slow-moving events. IDK if I'd call the trace "cleaner", the difference is that it doesn't fade away in an instant like it would in analog mode.This is a 40Hz signal AM modulated 100% at 5Hz. It's a plausible audio signal. It starts in analog mode and midway through I switch to STORE.https://youtu.be/zein-uk5iwY

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:22:16 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pmThat video is 14 years old. It's not good advice anymore, unless you want to collect boat anchors.Take a look at the Siglent SDS804X HD. A demo thread was linked in Reply #2. You can have the 4 channel 12 bit scope for $439, or less if you find a used one.https://www.amazon.com/Siglent-Technologies-SDS804X-HD-oscilloscopes/dp/B0CZJSR7FN/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 05:52:58 pmBad idea.A modern DSO is orders of magnitude more usefulandyou can get four channels and serial decoders, etc. (which you'll need for your Arduinos).Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 05:52:58 pmQuote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pm$400 is quite price sensitive.The good news is that a $400 entry level 'scopes can do everything you want. The two brands to go for are Rigol and Siglent 800-series.(Note: The argument over which is "best"doesn'thave a clear winner ... this thread will now devolve into a flamewar, just watch)You can buy the base model and "unlock" it to the highest model (they're identical hardware but software limited).FWIW: I own the Rigol.Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pmBetter off to start with one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 29, 2025, 07:22:16 pmOr you live in a cold place, own a very large table, and appreciate the extra heater in the room.

author: techneut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:56:27 pm
content: If you can get a analog osc for free, go for it. Otherwise get a digital scope. Why?I am a service engineer almost at retirement and have a lot of experience with analog scoops. I bought a digital scoop and had to learn how to use al the possibilities that it has. I am still learning.If you are just starting, go digital so you don't have to start to learn al the new options that comes with the modern scoops. There is a high difference how to use them.Succes

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:58:31 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2025, 07:08:26 pmThanks, wow, the trace fades quite hard.Come to think of it, my real purpose for using a scope is to learn the behavior of RLC circuits made of components that fit on a breadboard. So I don't really know what frequency range I'll need, although it will certainly be much higher than audio.Quote from: KungFuJoshGotcha, thanks. I'll detach myself from the vintage idea, at least for my primary application.If I'm going to get a good digital scope, I'd rather raise my budget a bit but still shop used. I don't like the idea of getting something new and kinda cheap.I could walk down the street and buy this scope, although I'm aware that it's out of date and overpriced. The fanless operation is appealing.https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/emeryville-tektronix-tds-mhz-ch-gs/7816871897.html

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 07:59:41 pm
content: Truly refurbishing an analog scope would put it way out of your price range. My guess is it was dusted and given a check-over and minor cal. Regardless, don't buy an analog scope in this day and age. Go for a Siglent 800 series, which is available new, with warranty, for between $339 and $799, depending on the model. It will be 12-bit, which a used scope probably won't be. After using the Siglent, I'd never buy an 8-bit scope. The improvement in FFT alone is worth it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 08:20:28 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 07:58:31 pmRed flag goes up when the seller can't even list it correctly:Tektronix TDS2014 100 MHz, 4-Ch, 2 GS/s Digital Storage Oscilloscope - $750It's a B version FFS with USB, my first DSO was a TDS2012B purchased especially for USB capability.However at 750 greenbacks it's way overpriced for what it actually is and don't think top vented fanless gives you any advantage when gime, grit and foreign bodies can get into the scope through the vents, gravity and humidity does the rest and you'll end up with a monument to your 1st DSO purchase as I have.Good for a doorstop and little else, and an expensive one at that !A SDS814X HD will kick this things arse all day long.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 08:29:45 pm
content: Hello,perhaps an Analog Discovery would be very useful for learning. They are also available second-hand.Best regardsegonotto

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 08:40:54 pm
content: Transformation complete, I'm now shopping for a good modern DSO. Thanks everyone for setting me straight.If I'm going right for the long term investment, $800-$1k sounds totally reasonable. Should I care about getting above 100mhz? Remember, none of my online classes will actually require me to use a physical bench setup.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 08:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 08:40:54 pmNo.The 70 MHz SDS804X HD provides a BW ~100 MHz for $439, a touch above your preferred $400.I got to see the 800 series a month before release early last year and they forever changed what we stock as an entry level scope, just for what they are for the price.Go look at the thread Grandchuck linked earlier.....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 09:32:36 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 08:40:54 pmWith ordinary probes poking at breadboards? Probably not.Note that most DSOs do better than the published spec, eg. The Rigol HDO804 says "70MHz" on the front but it's really about 125MHz.The DHO814 says "125MHz" on the front but it's really about 200MHz.The HDO804 can be upgraded to a DHO814 and both can be unlocked to about 300MHz (but the sample rate is really only enough for two channels at that bandwidth. If you want two channels @300Mhz though? They can do that...)If you get a $10 WiFi dongle you can have it permanently connected to your PC for screenshots, file transfers and remote control (which a Tektronix can't do) and it only takes about 10 seconds to switch the bandwidth back and forth from there.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 10:39:11 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 08:40:54 pmThat didn't take long! I wouldn't pass up a free or nearly-free analog scope if you have room for one because there still can be significant differences in how you see some things. I keep that Tek 2221A hybrid scope above my bench and it still is my go-to for many simpler things. It boots quicker for one thing.If your budget is not really restricted, then you might consider getting something a bit better. I think sometimes people set a budget of $400 (or $200 which is more frustrating) just because they think that's what they should be spending. You certainly can get a lot of bang-for-buck in the under $500 category, but there are always drawbacks. The lower end Siglents, for example, exhibit an amplitude aberration at low frequencies that might cause you some confusion if you are working with low-frequency breadboard projects, audio systems or just goofing around with signals. Not a deal breaker, but as I say "not quite pro".Although there are some high-end counterexamples, an old, used digital scope is typically a much, much worse propostion than even an analog scope. The reasons are many, but as an example that $750 Tek you posted would be a waste of bench space, IMO. As a beginner, it would take a while for you to figure out what you're missing. I actually have one similar to it as far as the system goes (2.5k points, similar controls) but that is a fully isolated battery operated model and is kept around for when an insulated floating scope is needed. If it weren't for that, nobody would want it.The scope that I use the most, the one that finally put my Tek 2465B under the bench in semi-retirement, is the $1400 Siglent SDS2104X-Plus. That's probably a bigger investment than you were thinking, and it isn't 12-bit, but does a pretty good job of almost everything.https://www.tequipment.net/Siglent/SDS2104X-Plus/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=0It has a lot of advantages that you won't understand until you start using it for more complex things, but the big ones are:1) All the options and BW upgrades can be unlocked for free, so it is a 350MHz (or 500MHz for 2 channels) 4CH scope.2) 200M points of memory. That $750 Tek has 2.5k points of memory, that's 80,000 times less. You won't appreciate the memory until you go to use a scope that doesn't have it....3) Nice, big screen with good vertical and horizontal zoom modes.4) Touch screen with direct entry of parameters and settings, including complex math functions.5) Very good FFT function.6) Low noise floor, nearly as good as the economy 12-bit models and better than other 8-bit competitors.7) 50R inputs.8.) Very good step and frequency responses and amazingly good DC gain accuracy.And then about 50 things that are less important, like the basic sig-gen, logic analyzer option, EXT TRIGGER input, etc. It isn't perfect and its processing power is not excessive but it always seems to get the job done.Also, about "fanless", theres a very good reason (thermal gradients) many modern scopes and DMMs have fans and it makes them better instruments.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:19:59 pm
content: +1 for the Siglent SDS2104X Plus. It's a wonderful scope to work with. I enjoyed mine for a few years before I upgraded to the HD version. I did a lot of audio work with it too.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:29:30 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2025, 10:39:11 pmQuoteYeah that's a bit of a stretch, even with oscilloscope shopping fever. I'd need to have a concrete reason why it offers something I'll need as a student (or as an audiophile) that other scopes don't. As a student, I may eventually want to replicate what I'm learning in classes like circuits 1 and 2, signals and systems, and random signal analysis, assuming I can provide the necessary inputs. And you'd have to tell me that a scope is THE central instrument in a test bench.Now if it doubled as a spectrum analyzer, that would be like two instruments in one. I wonder why they don't do that.QuoteThis I would kind of prefer not to have. I guess it doesn't hurt, but it just sounds more like a consumer electronics feature.So it comes down to two, maybe 3 choices, to keep itSiglsimple:- SDS2104X-Plus- SDS804X HD- SDS1104X-E (no touch screen)?Now that I've spent a lot of time on my ass not studying for my digital logic design class, I'd like to get this decision made.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 07:58:31 pmI realize there is a huge benefit in building a circuit and seeing it work, but for RLC circuits I would consider just simulating it with something like LTspice. Linear circuits are so well understood that their simulations are very accurate.And a big advantage of simulation is that you easily change component values.If you need to measure a real circuit then as @egonotto suggested I would look at an Analog Discovery (either the original or v. 2) since you'll also need a function generator. Just found out the v.2 is no longer produced so perhaps look on eBay for a used one.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:36:39 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 11:29:30 pmDon't worry about the touchscreen. You'll either use it or not, and if you don't, it doesn't matter. 90% of the time I control my scope from the web console. The rest of the time, I use the knobs and touchscreen. Use it however you prefer. Personally, I prefer the larger screen and touch panel.If budget is more important, get the SDS804X HD. If you want a higher level scope with a larger screen, 50Ω and other features not in the entry level scopes, get the SDS2104X Plus.Don't waste your time with the SDS1104X-E. It was my first scope, and it was great for its time, but there's no reason to buy that in 2025. Unless you find one for $100, then whatever.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:38:55 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2025, 07:08:26 pmThere is nothing plausible about a 40 HZ signal modulated at 5Hz.Where in audio work would you ever need to look at such a signal?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2025, 11:43:38 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 11:29:30 pmThey do and it does--it's called FFT. I just posted a picture in another thread of mine showing the spectrum of an FM stereo signal.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/frequency-deviation-in-fm-broadcast/?action=dlattach;attach=2534257;imageQuoteYou don't have to use it, but unless you plug in a keyboard you'll want it for direct entry of parameters and settings. It didn't take long for me to adapt to the touch screen as the simplest way of getting to the many options and features. But you can use a keyboard and mouse if you like, maybe one of those small combo units like you'd use with an entertainment system.QuoteI have the first and last of those, you probably aren't going to go wrong with any of them. The SDS1104X-E is a bit older, the interface is a bit klunkier and the FFT is not as handy nor as good, but it does have some interesting data recording features that they haven't added to other scopes yet. The FFT on the SDS2104X+ is especially good, IMO. That, the vertical zoom and the zone trigger were the three biggest selling points for me. Somehow I don't use the zone trigger as much as I thought I would.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 12:13:31 am
content: You could pick up a good used analog scope at a Hamfest for about $100. Something like a Tek 465. 100MHz, probably with probes. I just sold a 475 with probes for $50 to a friend. They do not seem to be able to sell any analog scopes at Hamfests for any meaningful price recently. And Hamfests are full of old guys who KNOW how to use them!!!! Maybe find a Hamfest near you to see if there is a good cheap scope.https://www.arrl.org/hamfests-and-conventions-calendarOther than something like that, I would go with a new Sigilent. The ebay sellers have not realized that the analog scopes have crashed in value. A good analog scope should go for about $100 IMHO.Just one example of newer scope usability, there are very few analog scopes with "Autoscope" that lets the unit just put the trace on the screen by itself. Also analog scopes do not have Fourier Function.I LIKE analog scopes but with the newer digital scopes, it is harder and harder to recommend them. They are also getting old and require service, look at all the posts about fixing scopes.Unless you can get a good deal on a one or two year old digital scope, I think it makes more sense to get a new one. The older digital scopes are not nearly as good as the newer ones. Get At least 100 MHz. If you get a used scope, make sure you get the correct probes.I do use an older Agilent Digital (500MHz) scope every day but it is as big as an old computer tower. And mostly they are overpriced also.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 12:30:49 am
content: I'd suggest to take a look to the Analog Discovery3 -It's pretty complete with 2 channel AWG, VNA functions, logic analyzer, pattern generator, protocol decoder, spectrum analizer, etc ... It's designed for learning activity.Also don't spend the money on 8 bit scope on this days. Look for 12 bit. vs 8 bit and you will see why. Instead of SDS2104X+ look for SDS1000XHD ( 10", 12bit, 200 MHz, 50 ohm, 100 Mpts and is very fast). Just like the 800 HD it need an external AWG for bode plots.Also Rigol DHO900 with LA and AWG, but not as functional as Siglent is.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 12:47:15 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2025, 11:43:38 pmWhoa, that's so cool!Return on investment just increased.QuoteFunny enough, this is the one piece of physical kit I believe I'll have to buy for a future class. Hoping to avoid it if I already have better stuff.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 12:54:37 am
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 12:30:49 amYet AD max input ratings are abysmal compared to a proper scope/DSO.Just waiting for that day when you need to probe elevated voltages .....QuoteSDS1000X HD models are in a polished case and front panel layout but their capability doesn't compare with SDS2000X Plus models.200 vs 500 MHz designs.To get to anything really decent that will serve you for decades SDS2000X Plus and above is a good starting point yet the low cost 800X HD with its near identical UI gives you a good look at what the more spendy models offer.For someone nervous about the spend, a 2ch SDS802X HD for just $339 is a good place to start before considering to upgrade later as needs require or funds permit.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:09:16 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 08:40:54 pmWith that budget there is quite a bit of choice. Make sure to look at MicSig's offerings as well. Features which sets MicSig's oscilloscopes apart are large screen surface, battery operated (portable), hardware filtering, hardware protocol decoding and the ability to record what is shown on screen as a video clip.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:27:24 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 30, 2025, 12:54:37 am

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:44:16 am
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 01:27:24 amUnless 12bit is needed, there's no other good reason to get the 1000X HD over the 2000X+.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:51:42 am
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 01:27:24 amHave you had both available to compare? Do they use the same software? IMO one of the issues with the SDS2000X+ is fewer MATH traces and having some things (ERES, AVG) implemented as a MATH function rather than in the acquisition menu. From the description I'd expect the SDS1000X HD to be an improvement on that and thus not the same software.As for 8 vs 12 bit, can someone with an SDS1000X HD model show us a 100Hz square wave? If this scope has the same aberration found in the other lower-end Siglents I'd have an issue with that.But as far as 12 bits and noise floor, I don't see that you'd be very far ahead of the SDS2000X+ models. The SDS1000X HD claims 70µV @ 200MHz, my SDS2000X+ measures about 75µV @ 200MHz and <50µV in 10-bit mode @ 100MHz. Also it is 105µV at full BW which is -3dB at about 570MHz. So I'm not feeling any pressure to "upgrade".B/t/w, has the 1000X HD been hacked? The availability of all the options makes a huge difference, IMO.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:34:44 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2025, 01:51:42 amOnly the PA option is available for SDS1000X HD, and none of the optional decodes etc that 2000X Plus or the HD models offer.Not even changing colors of waveforms like in 2000 models.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:07:53 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 30, 2025, 02:34:44 amAvailable to purchase or to steal?And is this a single-ADC model and that's why the max BW is 200MHz?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:10:05 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 11:29:30 pmYou wouldn't want to use your phone with twisty X/Y knobs like an etch-a-sketch, would you?Same thing applies to scopes: Some things are much,muchfaster/easier with a touch screen.You can still use knobs for the other things.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:15:03 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 12:47:15 amThat's nothing, take a look at this Rigol:The Rigol is much more hackable than the Siglent and people are adding all sorts of extensions to it:eghttps://github.com/mriscoc/RIGOL_DHO800_DHO900_GUI/tree/master

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:24:07 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2025, 03:15:03 amThat may be true. I haven't seen a Siglent running Doom.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:41:08 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2025, 03:07:53 amYes and yes.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:52:38 am
content: This is an interesting debate about 1000x vs 2000x. BTW, a forum member just offered me a functioning Tek 2232 for free with the digital part broken, so I'll have an opportunity to play around with analog knobs, and even do some repair. That means that when I invest in a new scope, it would make sense for me to make it a much better one.Some background about me: I'm mid-career, managing design and engineering for solar and battery storage projects, and I've designed plenty myself. When I was a kid someone gave me an electronics kit, and I was hooked, but nobody around me knew how to provide the knowledge support I needed, and I couldn't build an amp, so I eventually gave up. I got a non-technical degree, but never lost my interest, doing DIY audio projects with early miniDSPs and stuff. In 2008 I got into the solar industry and basically learned everything I know about power. I'm doing fine at that, but I often bump into the limits of my knowledge, and regret not having become an EE.A few years ago we had a project at a facility on a 115kv-4160v substation that had old GE analog protection relays from the 1960s, which we had to connect to our new digital relays for various reasons. The company that had built the substation still employed the engineer who originally designed it, and they basically dragged him out of retirement so that he could draw us a wiring diagram. It was a steep learning curve for me but super interesting. He told me over the phone that engineers in the high voltage power sector are graying away and not being replaced fast enough, and I think that was one of the moments I decided that Imustfollow through and become a real EE, no matter how hard it is, or how long it takes or how old I am when I'm done.Honestly, I don't know what I'll need a scope for yet, but right now I just want to build a workspace again and light up that old obsession, and get good at the skills before classes get really hard.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 04:05:03 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 03:52:38 amNot that long ago my first scope was a CRO, in my early 40's. It was also gifted but busted which sent me down the rabbit hole of fixing scopes and deeper learning than I ever had time for in my teens or later when the kids were little.I fixed many until discovering DSO's when they were becoming affordable and fixed a good few what are now old Tek DSO's.Just what DSO stands for is the key along with the deeper memory and capture that the modern DSO provides.While I did learn scope use with a CRO, a DSO is no harder to learn for basic scope use and instead immensely more powerful offering a feature set none of the old CRO's had.I can go on about this ad infinitum but basically a scope is a scope is a scope.....for basic squiggly line viewing but a DSO offers so much more....

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 05:25:22 am
content: Hello,an Analog Discovery is very good for learning. It is a fine little laboratory.Best regardsegonotto

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 06:43:17 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 30, 2025, 05:25:22 amBut they aren't cheap, bandwidth is limited, they doesn't really do mV ranges, and the software is a bit clunky (but powerful).I had one for a while but I just didn't end up using it much. An Arduino and oscilloscope was much more useful to me.nb. The AD software works with a PC sound card for free so you download it and play around to get an idea of what it does.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 07:58:18 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2025, 06:43:17 amHello,an Analog Discovery cannot be compared with a scope because it is a small but well-equipped laboratory. The scope inputs are differential, there are two good AWG, a small power supply with positive and negative voltage suitable for experiments with operational amplifiers.It is also intended for teaching and it does that excellently. And the thread maker wants to learn.Best regardsegonotto

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 08:41:10 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 03:52:38 amIt is about 1000X-HD. Not 1000X.This scope -

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 08:48:45 am
content: @bdunham7I will try to answer with a reply because the forum didn't let me to quote (trying for about 5 times - database error).- I think I can say that both use the same software platform, compiled for their respective hardware configuration offering the same aspect(UI) and in most part the same functionality (I think hw make the difference).- 1000X-HD has 4 math traces also with Avg and Eres as separate traces as MATH functions.- The waveform representation is the same as 800X-HD so you can find pics herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/. Not great indeed. Rigol DHO1000HD has the best looking waveform, but you know what? They don't enabled dot mode, so you can't know if the scope waveform reconstruction is lying to you.- Currently my scope show 58 uV@200MHz, 1ms timebase, 500uV vert scale, 1Mohm input.- This was not for you to upgrade, but for new acquisition as OP has expressed that he want to expand the initial budget to acquire a better scope.- Yes is hackable from the beginning, is the same script as for 800X-HD. At the moment of buying I was able to generate codes for all options and BW extensions. Now you need only PA and BW if you buy 1104X-HD model (which is slightly cheaper than 2104X Plus).- And yes is a double ADC configuration.

author: puxe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 08:59:06 am
content: No doubt the $1000 scopes are very impressive, but perhaps way over spec'd for the likely use cases.It's easy to convince oneself that every high end features are needed, when often a good basic scope is sufficient, unless you specifically plan particularly complex analysis.A good basic entry level scope like a Hantek 5102P or a Owon SDS 210s (with AWG, 1GSa/s, 100MHz, 20Mpts) could easily cope with student breadboard projects and much more besides. A $10 logic analyser with free SW will supplement and possibly give better results too.Modern entry level scopes are lightyears ahead of high end analog scopes when I was a kid!I'm sure there will be pushback on the basis of limited depth, triggers, FFT, no decoding etc. but..... If these become a constraint after lots of experience and use of the basic scope, then an informed purchase could follow, backed up by more understanding of what additional features are actually required.Just my 2 cents ...

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 10:21:45 am
content: Quote from: puxe on March 30, 2025, 08:59:06 amI would no longer recommend this.This model is about 13 years old and the price difference to the much more powerful Rigol or Siglent entry level models is too small.If anything, I would recommend a Hantek DSO2000 if you are looking for a cheap hobby oscilloscope and can get it for around $150.At least it's significantly cheaper than the “good” ones and you can get pretty far with it.

author: puxe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 10:31:21 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on March 30, 2025, 10:21:45 amYes, the Hantek is old, but it was to illustrate the point that it is a tool that satisfies a large contingent of users.The Owon is a recent update to the very popular 1102, with greater depth etc. and is less than £150. Lots of YouTube reviews, to see how the 1102 operates.As with everything today, too much choice and every owner often argues the benefits of one item over the next.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 12:04:08 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 11:29:30 pmYou couldn't be more wrong...Trust me, once you have used test equipment with a touchscreen, you don't want to go without. A touchscreen makes life so much easier. Only problem is that you'll need a good touchscreen UI (user interface) and not something which was bolted on as an afterthought. For example: the MicSig oscilloscopes where built with a touchscreen UI from day one which make them very easy to operate.My advise is to watch some video reviews of various devices to see if you'd like the way they operate and what the pros and cons are. Look at how to setup decoding, FFT and math. How many pushes does that take? Is the way information is presented clear to you? How deep are the menus? From there try to test a few devices yourself and see what you like. Try before you buy. The specs in a datasheet can be wonderfull but if the UI sucks, you are left with a device which is always working against you. Been there, done that. Over a decade ago I bought a high end Agilent scope with lots of bells and whistles. But it was super hard to drive. Setting up decoding required going through endless amounts of menus and settings. Not much later I bought a GW Instek scope to bring to customers. The GW Instek has less bandwidth but equal functionality but it was so much easier to drive that I ended up selling the Agilent scope and using the GW Instek. I still have & use the GW Instek scope just because it is so easy to operate.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 30, 2025, 07:58:18 amI know what it is, I had one. It can do a lot of things but it's not a substitute for a real DSO which is what people will really want once they've gone through the lessons and want to go to the next level. This isn't a problem if you're teaching a course and all the students change at the end of it but it's a problem if you paid for one yourself and now find yourself wanting the real thing.The digital pins have no real advantage over an Arduino if you have any notions of coding.I can rig up a -5V supply using an old phone charger or any other isolated 5V supply. The AD2 might be more interesting if it had +/-12V but it doesn't.You don't even need a negative supply to learn opamps, there's jellybean single supply 5V R2R opamps available, eg. LMV358.The real thing youdon'tget easily anywhere else are in the software, eg. the curve tracer and bode plot.If you need that then get one. Otherwise get a DSO.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:39:04 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 08:48:45 amThat all does sound similar, with 4 math traces being an improvement over my 2.QuoteCan you post a photo of a 100Hz square wave? The overall aesthetics aren't as important as avoiding errors and aberrations.QuoteIs that with full/maximum memory selected and a 2GSa/s sample rate? Lower memory and sample rates actually lower this reading. My SDS2354X+ with the same settings, 200M points 2GSa/s shows ~70µVrmsnoise with an open input set to 1M.QuoteThanks for clarifying on the hacking part. I'll agree that neither scope is a bad option (depending on the condition of your 100Hz square wave...) but IMO not a clear choice just based on 12-bit. The 2000X+ still has a much better logic analyzer setup for those that want one, 500MHz BW, more memory/dual ADCs and more decoding options. OTOH, it lacks a few things your scope has, Nth-edge trigger, 4 math channels and there's probably more. It's almost weird to have two products at the same price point overlap like that. Both are still budget scopes that make some compromises and I suspect that the older 2000X+ series has less CPU power than your newer model.QuoteI'm pretty sure it isn't--Tautech said it was single and there's this from the manual:

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:51:46 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 03:52:38 amThe main takeaway from that debate, to put it in perspective, is the fairly awesome amount of raw capability you can get for very little money compared to not that many years ago.QuoteThe price is right! Fixing it may be a challenge, but also a good learning opportunity. I fixed mine, the 2221A you saw earlier and it is essentially the same scope without a dual time base feature. They're difficult to disassemble if there's a problem in the front panel--which there was on mine. I look forward to your 2232 repair thread...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2025, 02:39:04 pmYup, the same sampling and mem setup as SDS824X HD.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:54:52 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2025, 02:39:04 pmFirst, this should be discussed in the corresponding thread.About noise, yes with the max memory 100 mpt is 64 uV. Scope start on 10 Mpts and you did not specify the amount of memory so i did not pay attention.About ADC's you should trust me, I opened it and posted pics from it on the corresponding thread.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 02:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 02:54:52 pmWhat's in the box and how it's configured to operate/sample are quite different.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 30, 2025, 02:59:09 pmDo you want to say that Bdunham7 ask about software configuration (in FPGA)?If yes, yeah but this has been discussed already if I'm remember well. Maybe they want to protect the 2000X-HD, I don't know why is so.I thought that the question was about hardware configuration.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:18:17 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 02:54:52 pmI will look for the other thread. I didn't even think about the memory issue until I went to look at my noise levels and saw that they were much lower than yours--because I only had 20kpts selected.With the ADC issue, perhaps there are two 1GSa/s ADCs? Is the spec sheet wrong here?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:19:29 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 03:06:40 pmJust the specs of each tell us enough.2000 models, X Plus or HD offer twice the memory and 2x the sampling which they must for 500 MHz designs to comply with Nyquist.800 and 1000X HD are just 200 MHz designs so the dividing down of sampling as more channels are active is still sufficient to meet Nyquist.Don't get me wrong, SDS1000X HD is a nice scope but BW limited with an inferior MSO/digital setup compared to its bigger brothers.SDS2000X Plus is still the pick of the bunch for the spend despite having just 2 Math channels.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2025, 03:18:17 pmNot all scopes noise floor are affected by the amount of memory they use to capture.ADC's are the same as in SDS 2000X-HD. Pics attached.Attached 100 Hz waveform.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:41:09 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 30, 2025, 03:19:29 pmI don't try to defend this scope, you can say anything, but I still think that today choosing a 12 bit one is better than an 8 bit. And about the memory it still have 100 mpts which is what newest Keysight HD3 have.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 03:54:25 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 03:41:09 pmAnd the 100 MPts is the differentiation between 800X and 1000X HD models.Only the 82*X HD (2 or 4ch) 200 MHz models provide the same 100 MPts as all the 1000X HD models.The deeper memory makes a big difference when using them in Dot mode.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 04:27:30 pm
content: Quote from: skander36 on March 30, 2025, 03:34:50 pmThe noise floor will drop if the sample rate drops because this limits the effective BW. I think the effect will be fairly universal, but I haven't tried every scope... In any case, it is pretty clear that "12-bit" is not getting you another 4 ENOB here.I found the other thread and discussion. IDK what to say about the HW that is physically installed there, but it appears that the sample rates listed are correct, 500MSa/s for 4 channels. Quite surprising to me considering the cost of the ADC chips. Perhaps there is something we don't know going on here. Thanks for tearing your new scope apart--that's beyond my typical level of commitment!The 100Hz square wave looks good, they must be using the better front end as I seem to recall seeing distorted versions from the 800-series. That's one deal-breaker eliminated for sure.It's almost like two different companies made these scopes in competition with each other rather than them coming from a single lineup. Unless I'm mistaken, I see that the 1000X HD has additional advanced trigger features--but no zone trigger.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 04:29:34 pm
content: Suppose I'm shopping for the nice DSO and I want to understand harmonics and their effect on sound quality, negative feedback in amplifier circuits, passive crossover design, etc., so I really care about the FFT, and I want it to cover a wide bandwidth. How does that affect the discussion?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 05:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 04:29:34 pmIt doesn't help. Almost anything will do to get started (learning phase) but if you want to specifically work with audio at the highest level then you need specialized equipment. In those cases, short of very expensive Audio Precision and similar instruments, you would consider PC-based systems using high quality soundcards or 16-bit Picoscope models like the 4000A series. I'm not suggesting you look at those now unless you want to be more confused. And for "wide bandwidth" you need to be more specific or you'll end up looking at 40GHz spectrum analyzers.But for your needs now, any of the popular budget DSOs will be useful and sufficient for some time. There are plenty of things other than scopes that you're going to want to buy.For example, you mentioned passive crossover design. Look for a function called a Bode plot, commonly found on some modern scopes and the Analog Discovery. For that you need a compatible signal generator and there is a built-in one on the Analog Discovery and on the SDS2000X+ scope I've mentioned, otherwise you have to get a separate unit. You'll also want to have an LCR meter to measure capacitors and inductors. The Analog Discovery has that built-in if you get the impedance analyzer board, otherwise you need an LCR meter.Your "paralysis by analysis" is entirely justified as you simply don't have enough information right now to know exactly what you need. But you won't go very far wrong with any of the recommendations you'll get here because a lot of people are or have been in a similar situation.

author: MarkusAJ
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 05:53:41 pm
content: If I would be you, I would start with Analog Discovery, for educational purpose it doesn’t matter too much if it’s the original AD, 2, or 3.You may find them on Ebay in $200 - $300 range. I suggest trying the WaveForm software for free with a sound card in your computer.Link to WaveForms:https://digilent.com/reference/software/waveforms/waveforms-3/getting-started-guideYou will get:- 2 channel, 10MHz, 14 bit oscilloscope with differential inputs. If you need standards probes there is $20 adapter available.- 2 channel AWG (Arbitrary Waveform Generator).- 0 - (+5)V and 0 - (-5)V power supply.- Logic analyzer.- FFT.- Spectrum analyzer (based on FFT).- Network analyzer.- Impedance analyzer.- Transistor curve tracer.- Protocols analyzer (SPI, I2C, UART, CAN, JTAG, ROM).Differential inputs come handy when you work with audio amplifiers, and 14 bit give you 84dB dynamic rangecompare to 72dB for 12 bit and 48dB for 8 bit scopes.I find the AD very handy in experimenting with up to 5MHz RF.On top of that your lab fit on your desk and you may take with you when need.After some period of time you will start seeing AD limitation and then you may start looking for the right scope, AWG, power supply, etc.Good luck

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 06:34:29 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 04:29:34 pmIf you want better audio analysis than what you'll get from the mentioned scopes, look at the QuantAsylum QA403 Audio Analyzer. However, also study the limitations of the device before deciding on it.For scopes, you mentioned wider bandwidth, and you will need that for better FFT. This is one of the reasons I would look at scopes on the 2000 level and up, but with the QA403, you could get by with a less expensive scope.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 07:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: MarkusAJ on March 30, 2025, 05:53:41 pmAh, I took one look at that candy apple green project box and assumed it was a kit from Toys-R-Us. Serves me right.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 08:47:27 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 04:29:34 pmMost of the recent Siglent DSO models provide Bode plot/FRA capability with sweeps signals from a AWG up to a max of 120 MHz for all DSO models.That AWG can be an additional spend depending on the model DSO chosen but having a 2ch signal source opens up possibilities for curve tracing.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fooln-around-with-dso-awg/However a AWG can also be a low current power supply if required.

author: Smepic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:00:57 pm
content: Quote from: MarkusAJ on March 30, 2025, 05:53:41 pmIf he is studying at an academic institution, can get an academic discount, and buy a new AD3 for $250.Quote from: earthtodan on March 30, 2025, 07:10:43 pmDespite its appearance, it's superior to more professional-looking oscilloscopes. It's a very useful device and has good software. It has good support from Digilent, and the community as it's a widely used device.Anyway if you prefer a dedicated scope, don't spend too much. Go for something basic like a Siglent SDS804X/Rigol DHO804 or similar. They are more than adequate for general EE.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:18:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2025, 03:15:03 amNot trying to be a fanboi or anything, but I get the sense that hacking the Rigol is a lot more complicated than just running a keygen and entering new model numbers into the Siglent... If you don't have much experience in that area, you'll very likely end up here asking how to get your scope working again (even if it's not bricked). It takes 5 minutes with zero effort to 'upgrade' the Siglent with zero risk of mucking it up - you can even use an online python compiler, so nothing to install or set up to run the keygen.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 09:24:53 pm
content: Quote from: TomKatt on March 30, 2025, 09:18:20 pmThe 'hacks' for the Rigol are to make it more functional (i.e. it doesn't work well on its own), not just basic options or bandwidth changes. I'm not saying it to be a fanboy either, it's facts. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 10:52:06 pm
content: I can only agree with the previous speakers.You actually only “hack” a scope to unlock features that are already installed and not to make it usable at all.In this context, I consider a statement like “can be hacked more than” to be rather misleading.Usually, you buy a scope and want to be able to use it as it comes.And not just tinker with it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 11:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 30, 2025, 10:52:06 pmNot quite true. There are many tools (not just test equipment) which users typically upgrade/uphack after buying. Often to improve value for money. It depends on whether you want to go that route but I wouldn't disqualify buying a piece of equipment with the intention to uphack it to get more functionality.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 11:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 30, 2025, 11:18:39 pmThe first part of that is true. The problem is, that you need to hack it to get basic features to work correctly. I think it might be a fun platform just for the sake of hacking it and making it do weird things, but that's not typically what somebody wants when looking for a functional oscilloscope.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 12:49:27 am
content: Quote from: TomKatt on March 30, 2025, 09:18:20 pmQuite the opposite.The model/bandwidth/memory options are controlled by a single file on the device. All you do is copy a file from a different model onto the 'scope.No keygen, scripting, or serial numbers are needed and you don't even have to reboot the 'scope. Just restart the 'scope app. I have a script on my PC that I can just double-click to switch between the models, it takes about 10 seconds and doesn't even change your channels or timebase or anything. The screen just blanks, shows the Rigol logo, then reappears where you were before.You can find the files for every Rigol model here:https://github.com/norbertkiszka/rigol_vendor_bin/tree/main/generated_ready_to_use

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 12:57:58 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 30, 2025, 10:52:06 pmHacking is making it do things the manufacturer didn't intend it to do.The Siglent fanbois complained that the Rigol UI was too big so the hackers made it smaller. They said the screen was too cluttered so the hackers overlaid a "full screen" button to show only the waveform at full screen size when you touch it.To me that's "hacking".

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 01:18:38 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 30, 2025, 11:35:27 pmImproving the UI and adding new FFT/Bode plot functions isn't "making it do weird things". That would be "making it play DOOM" or something like that.Are you seriously saying you never tinkered with a single thing you ever bought to make it work better?FWIW: I know that people at Rigol are looking at these "hacks" and showing them to management.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 02:11:56 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2025, 01:18:38 amDid you happen toread whatyouquotedand responded to?Let me help you, here it is again:Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 30, 2025, 11:35:27 pmLikeyou said, you needed to hack it to fix the UI and make FFT work. As I said, I don't like that. You shouldn't need to do it.The hacking it to do potentially weird/fun things is the part Idolike. 😉

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 02:27:34 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2025, 02:11:56 amAre we talking about enabling a function that was present in the firmware but just not activated or is it something else?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 02:32:22 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 31, 2025, 02:27:34 amNo, not activation. He's talking about how the UI is poorly designed, and FFT doesn't work. They literally had to hack the system to improve the UI, and get a functional FFT. It's cool that theycando that, it's not cool that theyneedto.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 02:34:57 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2025, 02:32:22 amPersonally I'd rather just have to solder in some capacitors or install a shim or something. Did this particular product purport to ship with a working FFT and it just didn't? Or was it "not included"?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 02:49:40 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 31, 2025, 02:34:57 amIt isn't one product; it's all of the newer Rigol oscilloscopes. For example:Quote from: Martin72 on February 23, 2025, 10:21:04 pmYou can check out Martin's review thread of one of their expensive scopes (the quote links back to it), that has the same problems/deficiencies of the 800/900 entry level models. You can also check Fungus' posts in the Rigol threads, and his comments he made here about hacking the scopes to get a functional FFT.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 03:09:21 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2025, 02:49:40 amI had a DS1054Z that had a theoretically functional FFT but with a comically obtuse UI. I guess they haven't learned much in that area. Amazingly the DS1054Z is still a current model....But look on the bright side--if someone is that deep in the UI perhaps there aren't any limits to what they could do? Perhaps an open-source DSO UI is a possibility.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 04:37:13 am
content: QuoteIt has an FFT as standard as you well know, it's the left half of the image I posted (purple trace with table of peaks underneath).The right half of that image is a hacked-in window to combine the two things.The standard built-in FFT functions can also show things like this with no hacking needed:

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 06:10:11 am
content: When only reasoning from someone cheering for something is "those that talk against us are shills and fanboys" then you know you have problems.Truth is out there. Those that don't do the homework suffer the consequences.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:47:32 am
content: Quote from: MarkusAJ on March 30, 2025, 05:53:41 pmA analog discovery can not really replace a scope. It lacks the front end with protection and the UI is a bit non standard.A big part of owning a scope is to get used to the basic operations. So having a real scope, even if a cheap one can be a real plus.Besides the Sigilent SDS804 and SDS1104, I would also consider the Hantek DSO2D15. It is a more basic sope (more the Rigol DS1054 level), but has a function generator build in and is lower cost.For most part one does not need the highest performance. For learing it can even help if one sometimes also sees the limitations of the instruments and learns how to work around them.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:57:51 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 31, 2025, 09:47:32 amYep, this ^^QuoteYet primary interest for the OP was for a 4ch scope so Dan (earthtodan) could be constrained by a 2ch model with that he has shared with us.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:59:59 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 31, 2025, 09:47:32 amIf you want to buy a Hantek DSO2000, then take the cheapest DSO2C10.The hardware is the same everywhere and you don't really need the (one) 150MHz probe.It can be recommended if you buy it cheap.Even if you get a better one later, you might still use it occasionally because it is noiseless, starts up fast and you might want to keep using the AWG.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 05:21:03 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 30, 2025, 11:35:27 pmYou are projecting this too much on your own situation without considering value for money versus effort are different equations for different people. An example: a couple of years ago my father bought a new semi-professional milling machine (just like the Rigol / Siglent scopes). Before buying it, he knew the spindle on that model has too much play. He bought it and modified the spindle to remove the play (using instructions he found online). Buying a better (professional) milling machine would have cost thousands of euros extra and he didn't want to spend that kind of money.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 05:25:49 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on March 31, 2025, 09:47:32 amCertainly true, but it is also true that a scope cannot replace an analog discovery, at least without a whole lot of external stuff--much more than just an AWG. The OP's goal is to learn electronics, not to learn about oscilloscopes. An AD with accessory boards can do stuff like curve tracing, power measurements, impedance analysis and more. And you get to more or less see how everything works as it does those measurements.As far as scope choices, although I agree that something is better than nothing and starting with a cheap scope may be ideal for a starving student, the OP is a mid-career professional and can likely afford non-junk stuff. 30 years ago I bought my first DSO, a $3k (big bucks in 1994) specialty tool that was an automotive-specific Scopemeter. Having that was both immediately useful and far more educational than half-baked or obsolete products. I still have it today, it works and is still marginally useful in some situations. My first modern DSO was a Rigol DS1054Z and that was a regrettable choice in hindsight. It was an exercise in frustration and I was delighted to sell it for a small loss.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2025, 09:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2025, 05:21:03 pmNot at all. I'm not a beginner. For a beginner, the scope should work when you set it up and install the latest firmware. That's a simple ask, that Rigol isn't currently capable of delivering. That's not my opinion either, look at the Rigol users comments, and Martin's review.If somebody like Fungus who is well experienced, and enjoys hacking stuff to change the way it operates, then it makes sense for them, and that's cool. It doesn't make sense for the average beginner at all. Somebody entirely new to oscilloscopes should be able to perform basic functions, and grow with the scope before any consideration of hacking anything is needed.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 02:57:43 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2025, 05:21:03 pmWorse: There's people here actually projecting the DS1054Z's FFT functions onto the new DHO models.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:01:33 am
content: First scope acquired. It's a Tektronix 2232, showing a lot of wear:- The ADCs broken and/or missing, so no digital functions are available.- Part of the CH 1 volts/div markings dial is broken off.- Back spacers and bottom feet are missing.- Smells like decades of accumulated dust.But it WERKS! And all it cost me was a long drive. I was able to download the user and service manuals.The above trace is an Arduino Uno's idea of a HIGH/LOW loop with 1 microsecond delay between states, across a 1k resistor. I'm assuming the 3 uS extra is the compute time for each switch.My idea here is that learning on an old scope will be kind of like learning to drive in an old stick shift Honda Civic with broken gauges. You can take it to the track and get good at pushing it to the limit before you get frustrated and invest in something fancy and fully computerized.The trace is a bit finicky. Sometimes it's a nice stable line, and sometimes the refresh rate becomes quite visible.With a little tweaking, maybe I can get it to play Doom.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:02:09 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2025, 09:23:40 pmPlease tell us what "basic functions" the Rigol DHO can't perform. I'm dying to know.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:14:34 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 01, 2025, 02:57:43 amNo, I'm only projecting that onto Rigol's reputation. Other's have critiqued the FFT on newer models and my earlier experience makes it easier to believe them without seeing them for myself. A screenshot or two doesn't tell the story. I was able to sometimes show good results from the DS1054Z, I just wasn't able to rely on them. And getting them was usually a maddening experience. Actually I'm a bit surprised that there are so many complaints, I thought Rigol had FFT sorted on the MSO 5000 series.IDK first hand what it takes to set up the Rigol FFTs, I'm just hearing complaints by others. What I do know is on my Siglent, if I know what I want to look at, say 101.5MHz with a span of 400kHz and a max level of -20dBm, I plug in the mouse/keyboard and clickety-click bip bip bop--I enter the numbers and it's on the screen. The only slightly tricky part is setting the channel horizontal and vertical settings.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:25:35 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 03:01:33 amWhat actually happens when you press the STORE button?QuoteIt actually looks good, I've seen worse. I'll check my parts bin the next time I'm near it. I have......some stuff....QuoteThe art of scope use starts with using the trigger. Tek has an excellent Auto-PP, which I see is switched on. Learn what the other trigger modes and the holdoff control do. For now make sure the holdoff is fully counterclockwise.QuoteOne reason you might keep an analog scope around is vector graphics. So Asteroids, not Doom. But there is a Wizard.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:38:11 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 01, 2025, 03:02:09 amQuote from: Fungus on March 31, 2025, 01:18:38 amTranslation: "Making the scope and FFT usable." 😉

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:48:33 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 01, 2025, 03:25:35 amThe trace disappears, and text appears telling me that voltage and time divisions both = 0.00.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:54:51 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on March 29, 2025, 06:58:44 pmWhist still commendable you'd choose analog, that video was 14 years ago.Massive advancements have been made in digital scopes since then. And that video was only targeting those who wanted to get these little toy kit DSO'sWith a $400 budget you'd be crazy not to get a modern 4 channel bench scope like a Siglent or Rigol.QuoteJust buy the digital now and it will serve you for decades to come. Not to mention open up an entire domain of measurements not available on an analog scope.EDIT: Oh, I see you got a Tek combi scope. Enjoy.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:19:12 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 01, 2025, 03:54:51 amThanks Dave! The forum members have done a good job of setting me straight.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:22:06 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 03:48:33 amOK, so try this:Push in the "ADV FUNCT" (advanced function) button at the top of the panel, 4th from the left or so. You should get a menu above each screen button except the "3" button. Press the "3" button twice and jiggle the cursor knob and you should get another menu, one of the selections will be "WIZARD". Press that button.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:39:18 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 01, 2025, 04:22:06 amThe secret menu doesn't appear.I will say, the triggering seems very finicky. Sometimes wiggling a knob makes the waveform go flat, or makes it come back, or it will just drop out spontaneously.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:46:12 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 04:39:18 amHmmm. If that had worked, it would confirm that a lot of stuff is working. The cursor knobs and the screen buttons do fail on these, so perhaps one isn't working. Do you at least get the advanced function menu? Is there a known history or backstory to this unit?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:47:52 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 04:39:18 amThe problem with analog scope, the pots get dicky. You can spray them with contact lube.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 05:06:46 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 01, 2025, 04:46:12 amThe advanced functions and other setup menus all work, just not the secret one.Back story is unknown to me, but it's been handed around. The forum member who gave it to me (who hasn't posted in this thread) clearly knows his way around test equipment, and was drawing up a schematic to install some new ADCs, but decided not to spend the money.Quote from: EEVblogI can see that these instruments are more like antiques.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 05:13:10 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 05:06:46 amHaving to continually fix them instead of getting on with your projects gets old quick.

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 11:44:43 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2025, 05:13:10 amNot to mention questioning confidence level when itappearsto be working after repair... Or waiting for the next component to achieve eol status lol.That said, in addition to my Siglent SDS804X HD I also have a 50 MHz HP 180A analog built around the time I was born and it continues to serve me well these 58 years later ;-) I use it for my vector experiments, where few (affordable) digital scopes perform as well.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 02:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 01, 2025, 05:06:46 amQuote from: tautech on April 01, 2025, 05:13:10 amIt's true that they aren't new, but lets not exaggerate the unreliability of these or old stuff in general. Obviously if you start with known broken stuff that others have given up on, you'll be doing some repairs. I used to buy stuff like this specifically looking for a repair adventure, sort of a combined learning exercise and puzzle. I was often disappointed when the repairs turned out to be extremely simple or completely unnecessary. I got a "powers up but can't test further" Tek 2221, an earlier version of this scope, for $50 including a front cover, original probes, bag, printed manual, the works. It did not need any repairs at all so I went through the calibration procedure and that was just going through the motions because it didn't need that either.I'm pretty sure much of my old, repaired equipment will outlast a lot of brand new stuff people are buying today. Yes, the switchs and pots can get fuzzy if the unit has been sitting around on a shelf, but that's easier to fix than dealing with cheap encoders that have gone random or firmware that hangs.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 02:31:35 pm
content: I have just bid a maximum amount of CHF 30 on an apparently functioning HM 203-4.At the moment I am the highest bidder with CHF 18.Let's see if anyone else bids higher. The auction ends in 90 minutes.If it works, the seller is only a few kilometers away.I've never had a CRO before and thought it might complement my cheap DSO in the “live view” and XY areas.I don't know if that's smart, but CHF 30 isn't that much. Probes and a BNC cable are also included.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on April 01, 2025, 02:31:35 pmI've got one of those somewhere, they're cute. It worked about five years ago but I'm a bit scared to turn it it on, it probably needs recapping and I don't want to hurt it.I looked inside and there's about a million electrolytic capacitors, all different sizes.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 03:44:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 01, 2025, 03:33:56 pmThese have an old-fashioned transformer and linear PSU setup, even for the HV section. That makes everything a lot less xplody.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:16:59 pm
content: I'm afraid I was the highest bidder.Photo from the seller.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on April 01, 2025, 04:16:59 pmThe scope looks mint. The probes do not. Both user and service manuals are available online (big plus) and you should enjoy the component tester feature.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 01, 2025, 04:23:40 pmYes, the probes are junk, but I think P6100 are enough for the 20MHz, or should there be problems?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 04:35:32 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on April 01, 2025, 04:27:56 pmThe Hameg has a fairly high 28pF input capacitance but if your P6100 clone version is decent it should compensate up to 35pF. So you should be able to adjust them properly.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 09:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on April 01, 2025, 04:16:59 pmAh, my first Scope experience...At school, 1989.After that, there was a long period of “calm” until I came into contact with scopes again in 2003 when I was employed as an testfield technician.From there on, LeCroy and Tektronix scopes were my daily world, i.e. DSOs.At the time, however, we still had analog ones for good reasons, and they were from Philips.To this day, I still have two of them in the closet at work.Privately, I started to get involved with measurement technology again from 2006, I then had a 50Mhz Tektronix analog scope at the start.In 2009/2010, my first private DSO, one of Uni-T 40Mhz and monochrome 5” display...Then, in 2015, the ultimate scope for hobbyists: a Rigol DS1054Z.Let's face it, this Scope has changed everything.After that, I had a DS2072, then an SDS1104X-E, then an MSO5074, then an SDS2504Xplus, then an SDS2504X HD, then an SDS3104X HD......In between, a DHO804, an SDS804X HD.The topic of oscilloscopes can be a rabbit hole.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2025, 09:49:20 pm
content: Hello,my first scope was a HM207 for 530 DM with a 7 cm tube.This scope has no trigger.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 01:54:48 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 01, 2025, 09:49:20 pmI think a better question for you is, how many scopes do you have now? 😉😉

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 02:14:40 am
content: Hello,that's not easy to answer.Is a Velleman HPS140 with a battery that no longer works still valid?Is a Red Pitaya valid?Is an Analog Discovery valid?Is the HM207 that is about 140 km away still valid?Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 02:29:18 am
content: Sure, though I doubt it would make much of a dent in the number either way. 😉

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 02:43:17 am
content: Hello,yes, I have 2 Analog Discovery, 3 Analog Discovery 2, 2 Analog Discovery 3. that makes quite a difference. So if you do all the maths, I end up with 26. But 3 of them are barely accessible.Best regardsegonotto

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 02:48:21 am
content: How long do you generally give CROs to warm up?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 02:51:30 am
content: Hello,about 1 to 2 minutes.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:03:30 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 02, 2025, 02:43:17 amlol, that doesn't surprise me. I have 1.25. I have 1 Siglent, and a DSO-TC3, which I think is maybe 0.25 of a scope. 😉

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:08:44 am
content: Hello,but the DSO-TC3 can easily compete with the Velleman HPS140.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:23:49 am
content: Ok, so the Velleman is only 0.25 of a scope also then.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:24:49 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 02, 2025, 02:51:30 amThen warm-up is not the problem. I can set up a trace, walk away for a few minutes, and it's flatlined. This old clunker may be too much of a challenge for me.If anyone in the SF Bay Area wants a project, I'd be happy to pass it along.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:36:34 am
content: Hello,If I understand correctly, does the analog part still work?If I were you, I would consider whether an additional Analog Discovery would provide a good overall solution. In my opinion, the Analog Discovery was developed especially for students.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 03:58:34 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 02, 2025, 03:24:49 amIf you have any interest in repairing it, start a thread in the Repair section and ask for advice.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 04:12:43 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 02, 2025, 03:36:34 amSomeone mentioned that the triggering systems can get finicky, and it makes sense for that to be the problem.You're probably right about the AD3. I don't love the idea of test equipment that requires your computer as an accessory, but I just completed the academic verification on Digilent for student pricing.Quote from: KungFuJoshI'll stash it away for now and see if the inspiration strikes, but I don't have the bench setup for that job yet.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 05:01:38 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 02, 2025, 04:12:43 amBy "flatlined" do you mean that you just get a straight horizontal line for the trace?Your plan is probably good. I've tried to talk some novices through scope repair here and they usually give up--it's not a good first project. But if you're up to it someday, it is a good learning exercise IMO. Once you understand the guts of the analog scope, you won't be intimidated by it. The digital part, that's another level. But I have retained things for some time that I wasn't up to repairing at the time and now they're easy. One of them was a scope just like yours, the one in my photos. And given time, you may luck into parts or parts units you can use for repairs.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 05:56:01 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 02, 2025, 02:43:17 amI guess we have a winner!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 06:49:30 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on April 02, 2025, 05:56:01 amOnly until our next order of DSO's come in.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 07:39:33 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2025, 06:49:30 amI may hope so as a distributor vs a single person :-)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 08:20:02 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 30, 2025, 07:58:18 amI was just watching this video, it teaches a lot about opamps, including not using opamps that were designed so long ago that you need extra power rails in your circuit to even make them work.(...and EEVBLOG gets a mention at the end)

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 11:49:57 am
content: Nice video Fungus. But, a Rigol? (JUST KIDDING)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 12:50:59 pm
content: Quote from: Grandchuck on April 02, 2025, 11:49:57 amRigolwithoutany mods. The horror!

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 04:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 01, 2025, 04:23:40 pmToday I picked up my “new” HM203-4.I think I was lucky!The scope is first-hand from an older gentleman.It is like new! A little dusty, but an absolute beauty.The first tests have shown no technical problems, afaics.Even the manual looks like new!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 05:45:20 pm
content: Manual as well?Nice find!

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 06:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 02, 2025, 05:45:20 pmYes, everything including diagrams.So far, everything I have tested works (XY mode, component tester...)The screen is nice and bright.I love it already. I must have been lucky.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 08:27:34 pm
content: A few years ago we would sell scopes like the 20 MHz scope for about $100 at the radio shop. Now they are not so valuable.It is nice that you got one for free and can learn how to use one.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 09:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: Wallace Gasiewicz on April 02, 2025, 08:27:34 pmBasic scope use is not rocket science.I had a fair idea at 13, learnt some 50+ years ago from my teenage bible, an English electronics magazine.First use was at school after convincing my Science teacher to let me use the lab scope during lunch break.Life, birds and bees and later family halted my electronics interest for decades but as hobby time returned I was gifted my very first scope, an English Telequipment D83 built at a time when Tek had gained ownership of Telequipment and that now old CRO had a Tek CRT.Still, the best scope use advice I ever had was to know what sort of waveform to expect before connecting the scope so to not blindly trust your settings or that your scoped results were correct.Therein, the probe compensation output is always a good sanity check that things are working as they should.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 03:39:59 am
content: This is the right call right now. There will be a bigger, better, badder oscilloscope (and hopefully a photo-worthy stack of test equipment) sometime in my future.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 06:28:14 am
content: Hello,the AD3 has a USB-C to USB-C cable. It also needs quite a lot of power.I have just tried it and it has 4.8 V and 0.666 A.I think it's more useful in conjunction with a breadboard than with the BNC adapter.Best regardsegonotto

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 07:19:25 am
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 03, 2025, 03:39:59 amYou can get an AD2 for half that and the functionality is almost identical.Use the difference to buy a decent multimeter/soldering iron/whatever.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 02:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 03, 2025, 06:28:14 amYeah, I realized that I should have ordered the student kit, and requested swapping out my order.Quote from: FungusI might have to buy one anyway for circuits class down the road, so may as well be up to date.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 02:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 03, 2025, 02:13:02 pmYou kinda need the BNC adapter - to connect proper probes.You can 3D print a case for it to stop it flopping around. Just google for one.

author: Smepic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 03:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 03, 2025, 03:39:59 amIs that price with academic discount?

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 08:38:27 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 03, 2025, 03:39:59 amnice! i would recommend getting the impedance analyzer module for it. it's only like 20$ and it comes in super handy

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 09:10:55 pm
content: Quote from: Anthocyanina on April 03, 2025, 08:38:27 pmHello,The terminals on my impedance analyzer module are quite impractical.Best regardsegonotto

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 09:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 03, 2025, 09:10:55 pmIndeed they are quite strong and hard to manipulate but the functions it brings worth giving a try at it's price.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2025, 10:42:39 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on April 03, 2025, 09:10:55 pmyeah, that's the one downside of the module. it still is way more convenient than setting up the resistor and jumpers by hand on a breadboard

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 08:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 03, 2025, 02:45:46 pmIs this for an electrical reason - i.e., if I just go wires to breadboard, I miss the x10 setting and the voltage dividing, and am thus limited to low frequency testing - or just mechanical reasons?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 09:19:44 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 04, 2025, 08:22:18 pmIf you need the lower circuit loading, better step-response or higher frequency response, then you'll want the BNC adapter and probes. Just doing basic circuits on a breadboard at a few hundred kHz or less you wouldn't bother with probes. By the time you really need probes perhaps you'll be ready for an oscilloscope.

author: earthtodan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 09:48:36 pm
content: The scope is fine. But the 9V battery that came with my new Arduino kit was not, and that's why the trace would flicker and die after a minute. Swapped it out and now the trace is holding solid.earthtodan

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2025, 11:27:01 pm
content: Some of the lessons we learn are hilarious. 😉

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2025, 03:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: earthtodan on April 04, 2025, 08:22:18 pmThat's one reason.The other is that the AC coupling capacitors and 50 Ohm resistors for the signal generator output are on it.