Hobbyist looking to get a quality multimeter to grow with - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nicholas_garcia
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 05:44:24 am
content: Hi all,Brand new to the forum, I just came across it while researching multimeters. I am a beginner looking to get a decent multimeter that I can grow into. Based on the advice here and elsewhere, I am looking at four models:-- hioki DT4222-- Klein mm700-- Amprobe 530-- DM-510AThese seem like capable multimeters, but I was wondering what people thought or if I was missing any brands/models (ideally <~100).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 06:20:20 am
content: I'd go for the Greenlee DM-510A. It has everything you need and expect in a decent entry level meter (capacitance, temperature, etc) and it is made by generally well-regarded Brymen in Taiwan. The three less-obvious features that distinguish it (IMO) are the Lo-Z mode, the ability to add an IR/USB interface with software for logging and the limited lifetime warranty. You might not appreciate those yet, but as you advance you may be glad you have them. You'll probably still have and use the meter 10 years from now.If you buy from TEquipment.net, there's a 6% discount for EEVBlog members. You'll have to search the forum for the discount code.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 07:04:17 am
content: Quote from: nicholas_garcia on February 02, 2022, 05:44:24 amThe Hioki is a good meter but it doesn't mesasure Amps so that's no use.The Klein is a cheap-ass meter pretending to be something else.Amprobe is GoodGreenlee DM-510A is better.

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 08:58:09 am
content: Th Hioki seems to have permanently attached leads. For the purpose you specified I would get one with four separate 4mm jacks. This way you can easily replace broken probes or use different ones if you need them.If you want to have a good meter to start out with, I would look for the following things:Four 4mm Jacks, including two current ranges (often ~400mA and 10 A)The meter should be properly tested: There should a labels from a proper testing house/certificate on the meter. Some of the most common are UL, TÜV (GS), Intertek, SGS, CSAThe functions you should have are: Voltage, current (one for large currents up to 10A and one for smaller currents, resistance, continuity temperature) everything else is nice to have but not absolutely necessary in my opinion. This also depends on your use case.Look for proper fuses. If the meter has no or only transparent glass fuses, this is a big nono.a proper bar graph. Sometimes there a fast variations on the signal you're measuring. The normal DMM display only updates a couple of times per second at best. If you have fast variations a measurement might seem stable but a proper bar graph can show you that there's a lot more going on.I would have recommended a Uni-T UT61E if you can get the properly tested one with the TÜV/GS mark on the front. Absolutely do not get the untested version which has less protection and no proper fuses. The meter has been discontinued but some sellers still have them in their inventory.There's also Brymen which makes good, affordable meters like the BM23X or the BM25X series.Let us know if you need additional advice. :-)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 09:27:44 am
content: If you're looking at Amprobe you could look into their "precision" range, eg. this one:https://www.tequipment.net/Amprobe/AM-140-A/Handheld-Multimeter/It's actually a Brymen BM857s in disguise, which is a 50,000 count meter with excellent all-round performance, very accurate, fast bar graph, etc.(the BM857s is my main meter)It also has very little function overloading on the range switch positions, which is very nice to have.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 12:40:50 pm
content: Quote from: nicholas_garcia on February 02, 2022, 05:44:24 amDoes it need to be portable? If not, then consider a bench meter like the Vici VC8145. Big clear display, lots of features and it never runs out of batteries.If you want to measure mains voltages, I recommend to stick to one of the A-brands for good quality control.

author: Algoma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 02:50:30 pm
content: Its hard to beat the accuracy, resolution, features and Safety offered with the price of the EEVblog BM786With Meters you're either paying for Features, Safety or Brand Name, There is plenty enough compettition in the market to keep the prices somewhat honest to what they're offering.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 03:26:34 pm
content: Im not bashing the eevblog meter, since its a work in progress, for stability sake i would buy an amprobe or some brymen greenlee meter(s) or some used Fluke 83-85 series on fleabay ...Take time to invest in a good handheld or bench meter, not buying cheapness or cutting in safety featuresI've grown up with a Beckman Industrial hd160 meter (became Wavetek) i had this puppy for 2 decades, never blown a fuse in itYears later i had my fair share of many meter brands from Fluke, Mastech, Amprobe, to the most $$$ Gossen MetrahitMy most used are Fluke 189 and Amprobe AM-140, waiting for a few deals another AM-140 or an AM-160Love the fact,that i dont have to totally dismantle a meter to change fuses and or batteries

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 05:43:03 pm
content: If used is acceptable then you've a wide choice.Brymen BM869S, Metrix MX 57EX, Tektronix DMM912, Gossen M242A (less useful for electronics as no proper low current range) are all meters I've paid considerably less than $100 for on ebay.The BM869S in particular is well respected and liked on these forums, and is packed with more functionality than a pomegranate is with pips.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 12:20:56 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on February 02, 2022, 03:26:34 pmWhich EEVBlog meter? I know of 3.

author: vonronge
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 04:03:31 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 02, 2022, 07:04:17 amKlein makes excellent meters, I don't understand the hate:

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 10:31:47 am
content: Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 04:03:31 amI don't think Klein makes any meters. Some other company made for them. I have used the MM700 and I think it's OK for the money.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 01:43:39 pm
content: Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 04:03:31 amBecause a Youtube video says so? Does that guy say bad things about any meter?I'd valuejoe's opinion and testingmore.For that price you could easily get alow-end Brymen. It comes with decent gold leads, it has beep-jack warning to save your fuses, and I'd trust it a lot more in general.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 02:02:36 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on February 15, 2022, 10:31:47 amYep, and that's the problem. There may besomenot-too-terrible meters in the lineup but the meters come from all over the place so there's no consistency and you don't know what you're getting. The meter prices from these brands are determined more by looks and marketing needs than what's inside them.If I was looking for "quality" (as in the title of this thread) then Klein wouldn't be on the list. Not when I know about Brymen meters.

author: Algoma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 03:02:13 pm
content: Much of the meters from Klein, even their MM700 only offers ±(1.0% + 8 digits) accuracy at best. For their cost, they seem vastly behind meters half their price. They're alright for mains electical work, but far too inaccurate for their price when it comes to electronics work.https://data.kleintools.com/sites/all/product_assets/documents/instructions/klein/MM700_1390112ART_WEB.pdf

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 03:39:12 pm
content: Quote from: Algoma on February 15, 2022, 03:02:13 pmThey're aimed at workshops and factories where people don't know much about multimeters or electronics.These people buy other tools from Klein so Klein adds rebranded multimeters to their catalog to round it out. It's just another sale for them.(I know factories that have Klein multimeters so I've played with a couple, I wouldn't want one for electronics use)Maybe it's just me but In my mind they're one of those brands of meter where you'd be surprised if you opened one up and therewasn'ta piece of wire or tinfoil wrapped around the fuse.

author: vonronge
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 05:04:51 pm
content: All the high end Klein multimeters are designed and made by Klein in the USA. This information is a simple google search away.I use an MM700 all the time alongside a Gossen Metrawatt M249A. I have a few flukes etc too, but this one holds up better to drops.As for asking if the reviewer said anything negative about it, I don't see how you can bash someone's video without watching it.Now I remember why I left this site years ago. Goodbye. Again.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 08:16:18 pm
content: It's true this site has a few vocal members who can be annoying.ebay listing photos show the Klein MM700 is made in China.The Klein isn't pretending to be anything. It's a budget DMM for mass-market retail sales. You can just walk in to any Home Depot and get one any time you want. Any issues or you just don't like it, bring it back.Meanwhile I have a BM789 that has various issues and I'm basically stuck with it unless I want to start a fight somewhere.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 08:23:29 pm
content: The revies video has quite some weak points: For the accuracy test the power supply is likely less accurate than the meter on the left.Testing at high current may be a good idea, but not with the display of a cheap lab supply as a reference - that is about as bad as it can get.The LED test is just a joke - a minimum would be checking the test current with and without an additional LED. It should be constant, but might change in an not so ideal design.The rather slow continuity test is a point quickly set aside.With autoranging the ohms test is sometimes slow with low resistance - the test were done in Mohms and 100 K range and there there where the ohms mode is fast by design. Slow ohms reading can be rather anoying and reason to wish having fixed ranges. Showing how fast or slow the ohms mode is would be one of the few really useful tests to do.An AC test with calling a 119 V mains reading good is more like a bad joke.Robustness testing in the voltage range would be with a 1500 V or higher transient, not just a voltage in it's normal range.The point sometimes in question is whether the ohms moder or diode test survives mains. Ideally it should, but still some potential for a surprise.The tests shown are of very little value - more like a waste of time. A look at the specs would be more useful.The inside looks OK, but not really great - just like a modern DMM with reasonable protection.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 08:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 05:04:51 pmI flicked through it. I saw a few superficial tests.In the conclusions he said "If you're looking for a Fluke Multimeter without the Fluke price...", and ... that's when he lost me.Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 05:04:51 pmFor some strange definition of "left" that I wasn't previously aware of.Quote from: J-R on February 15, 2022, 08:16:18 pmExactly.My only point is that the Venn diagram of"quality multimeter for EEVBLOG member to grow with"and"Klein multimeters"doesn't have much of an intersection.Proof? How many threads are there on here discussing Klein meters? How many videos has Dave made where a Klein multimeter is visible somewhere? Is a Klein multimeter in any of his shootouts?

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 09:00:46 pm
content: Maybe the target audience for the content creator just wants to see how the thing works in every-day life.Content creation on Youtube is a HUGE can of worms, best to just not get into it, haha.I agree the Klein meters would not make sense for the OP. I would not buy any of Klein's DMMs for myself. Zero interest.99% of my friends and family have the cheapest, junkiest DMMs that they got at the check-out line of some auto parts or hardware store and they are none the wiser. Nothing wrong with that?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 09:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on February 15, 2022, 09:00:46 pmHow's this one?Not as much upbeat music and video effects as that other one, I'll give you that...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 09:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 05:04:51 pmThe video you supplied disagrees with you:https://youtu.be/eXqtmt-zMyE?t=39

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2022, 11:39:38 pm
content: To get back on track, an earlier suggestion of the Greenlee DM-510A is good, except for the price. You are paying about $50 extra for the lifetime warranty. And the OP stated they wanted to be at about $100.So I propose the Brymen original to the DM-510A, the BM257s from Welectron, which after the 5% EEVblog discount is $110.17 delivered.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 12:15:35 am
content: Quote from: nicholas_garcia on February 02, 2022, 05:44:24 amQuestions:What sort of electronics do you want to do?Are you thinking of poking at mains AC?Do you own any sort of multimeter?There's loads of stunning-value multimeters on Aliexpress if you're only going to be working with low voltage stuff. If it's your first meter you could start with one of those until you figure out what you really need. You need more than one meter anyway.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 06:44:19 am
content: I'd re-visit the idea of buying just one meter and use it for rest of your life. I went through half dozen meters, blown up some and dropped some. Those were analog meters, so dropping it killed the meter itself. Now, on digital side, I currently have 3. Fluke clamp meter, mini portable, and regular size made by some unknown make. They all do what multi-meter is supposed to do, yet, none does all.I would just browse Amazon or something and plan to spend 50 to 75 dollars. Start with that and see where it takes you. By the time you start finding things "it" can't measure, you'll know more to make decision on your own. Everyone's use case is different.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 10:35:17 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on February 16, 2022, 06:44:19 amYep.Quote from: tkamiya on February 16, 2022, 06:44:19 amI wasn't going to post any more in this thread but I just looked on Amazon out of curiosity and it seems like a really,reallybad place to buy a multimeter. It's full of Aliexpress meters at two or three times the normal price and $12 pieces of junk. You'd be better off buying that Klein.Aliexpress returns are as easy as Amazon returns these days - just print a label and drop it off at a collection point.If I was going to recommend a "first meter" it would be this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002958822769.htmlThat's a really good, well built meter. It's one of the meters I use most and for that price it's a complete steal. Everybody here should get one.Yeah, I know it has fake CAT rating printed on the front but that doesn't bother me in the slightest for 5V and 12V electronics on the bench (ie. where it gets used).

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 10:45:28 am
content: Quote from: vonronge on February 15, 2022, 05:04:51 pmThe MM5000 and MM6000 were made in the USA but Klein discontinued them a long time ago. The MM700 isn't made in USA. There is no Klein DMM made in USA today.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 12:06:39 pm
content: What a shitstorm...To the OP: Out of the options, I know three of them and they are solid choices. The Amprobe AM530 is less forgiving in case you face a transient on an outlet*and it has a somewhat slow continuity, just like the Klein MM700. However, if used well, both will last you a lifetime - they are mechanically very robust and forgiving in case you switch to the wrong range. The Greenlee is very well described by bdunham7's answer, but it will set you back more than $100. You will have lifetime warranty and a good overall set of features with a shortcoming or two (small voltage diode test and slow capacitance checker).As with everything, without knowing what is the use you are going to put into the meter, it becomes quite difficult to know what will be important for your decision.Although a beginner can make mistakes, I tend to recommend a reasonably well built meter if the person has set aside a reasonable budget (as you did). After all, you need to trust what you are reading and it becomes hard to choose a better built meter from the selection of ultra cheap meters below $40. Some exceptions apply, but even the uneven quality control might still be a problem.On the other hand, no meter will replace your own handling - pay attention to what you are doing and any meter will last you quite a long time. Also, any money you put down now for a meter will be reasonably paid for over the years of ownership.Good luck in your quest!*An event as common as being hit by a lightning that can be prevented by staying away from anything as powerful as the distribution panel of your house.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 06:57:29 pm
content: The Klein MM5000/6000 looks to have been mostly sourced from UEi. Knob from the DM393 and display from the DM525, for example.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 09:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on February 16, 2022, 06:57:29 pmBut they are assembled in the USA. Some company in the USA had to assemble them.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 10:42:22 pm
content: Sure, not saying they weren't assembled in the US, just pointing out that it doesn't look like they really made it from scratch themselves.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2022, 11:21:19 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on February 16, 2022, 06:57:29 pmUEi/Kane is a US company and may have made those for Klein in the US at one time. I think their handheld DMM line is now entirely made in Korea, but Kane is still a US company and makes bench equipment here.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 12:16:37 am
content: I don't have their corporate history written on the back of my hand, but I have maybe a dozen UEi products stretching back decades and they all say made in Korea.What bench equipment does Kane make in the US?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 02:55:13 pm
content: Quote from: J-R on February 17, 2022, 12:16:37 amWell it looks like I'm wrong on that--Kane is a UK company and the IR gas benches and other equipment that I remember as "Kane Test USA" were apparently made in the UK and aren't any more. Nowadays their stuff is all portableand made in China, Taiwan, UK and maybe Canada. I'm guessing their 'acquisition' of UEi was some sort of inversion where a small company appears to swallow a large one. As far as them manufacturing a handheld DMM in the US at any point, that looks doubtful unless they abused the 'Made in USA' label as the rules may not have been as clear back then.http://www.keison.co.uk/products/kanemay/Auto4353.pdf

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 04:35:10 pm
content: And the Klein MM6000 and MM5000 clearly marked Made in USA and Klein bragged about it so they must be made in the USA otherwise they would be in trouble. And if UEI didn't make meters in the USA about 8 years ago (that was when the MM6000 was introduced) then the Klein meters weren't made by them.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 04:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on February 17, 2022, 04:35:10 pmOr they are bending the rules and getting away with it. "Made in USA" with nice flag on the front. On the back it admits that it has "US and Imported Parts". So perhaps UEi makes the main parts and then ships them to the US to be assembled with US-made screws? It might be interesting to see what is printed on the circuit board.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 05:53:40 pm
content: It is true that the made in USA marketing has been abused a bit over the years, but the FTC generally cracks down on that so most companies today use assembled in the USA instead. I don't think Klein would use the same labeling today because of that.I thought about trying to snag one of these to have a look but they are going for almost $300 on ebay!But to my satisfaction I am pretty well convinced these were made by UEi in Korea and assembled in the US.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 07:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 17, 2022, 04:55:52 pmSKD (Semi Knock-Down, I'm not sure if the same term is used in the US) is a wondrous scheme. Not only does it allow you to source your components and have your PCBs assembled in whatever country you want - case mouldings and packaging too [Edit: and by anyone you want], but as long as you put them together and insert a few screws in the country of 'last significant assembly', you save on import taxes too (in the EU anyway).

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2022, 08:55:43 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 17, 2022, 07:11:40 pmBack in Brazil we used to also have CKD - Complete Knock Down or Complete Kit Disassembled. This was to circumvent the very high import taxes for complete products: purchase the separate parts where it was cheaper, then ship the parts to Brazil and assemble them in a local plant. A percentage of parts had to be sourced locally, but it was ridiculously low and let the door open to simply have low-tech stuff sourced locally such as packaging materials, manuals, plastic enclosures, etc. Sony used to be big on that.Once a local brand was caught circumventing even the low tech parts, with a complete package from China having everything including the "Made In Brazil" stickers and product box.