Bench upgrade for personal electronics repair - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 08:34:47 pm
content: Hi all I am really enjoying this community and reading the various opinions here. When I started repairing my own electronics 20 years ago, I did it because it was cheaper to fix than buying new stuff and I didn't have the cash to buy new stuff. However as cashflow increased and I could afford to just replace things, my bench became a storage place only to be used once in a great while. Recently I got tired of throw away electronics because a cap busted or a soldered fuse blew and decided to start fixing my stuff again instead of tossing it. Of course this gave me a great excuse to update my bench with some better gear. I will not be doing production work, but I do believe that you are more likely to use tools if they pleasant to use. My current projects include replacing caps on a server board I just swapped out, fixing my 10 year old Samsung TV (replacing the tantalum capacitors and MP2363 chip), putting together a kit robot with my kids, and a few arduino/raspberry PI projects. Here is my plan after a week of cruising this site and watching equipment reviews:Upgrade old radio shack digital soldering station (64-2185) to a Hakko FX951-66-Kit-1 with extra tips T15-BCM3, T15-D52, T15-K. I looked at the Pace ads200 with ISB, but it was almost $100 USD more.Buy YIHUA 959D-Digital Hot Air Rework StationUpgrade old Greenlee DM-300 meter with EEVblog BM786 Multimeter.Buy an ESR capacitor tester, but I haven't researched which one (the TV's issue is most likely a capacitor with high ESR)Buy a scope, but I haven't figured out which one.Buy/build fume extraction.I know that I could get by with my existing stuff or cheaper stuff, but reading the blogs I realized that a lot of my frustration is probably equipment related. I looked at a Hakko 888D, but many posts said that the 951 was so much better to work with. I am not opposed to spending a little more for a better experience knowing that I am more likely to use it.Does this seem like a reasonable plan? Any suggestions on alternatives or additional gear that I need to have please let me know (I already have the basics like solder, flux, hand tools, etc)?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 09:12:51 pm
content: The search feature will probably turn up hundreds of threads on each of your concerns.We do a 'which scope' thing every couple of weeks and the answers don't change: Siglent SDS1104X-E (100 MHz) or SDS1204X-E (200 MHz) or Rigol DS1054Z (unlock to 100 MHz). Each of these are 4-channel and arguments can be made of fewer but not by me.Meters are all over the place, see the Test Equipment forum. In my opinion, you need at least 3 DMMs so a couple of them might as well be the cheaper Aneng 8008 but, since we don't trust the CAT rating (which, on a bench, I could care less about) one of the meters may as well have a proven rating - there is a thread on the CAT ratings over in Test Equipment.Take your pick on the soldering iron realizing that there are a lot of irons that cost a LOT more money. I bought the 888D for my grandson and I have the 936 (now obsolete). It isn't a big deal if the 888D is underqualified later on but I'll bet it will work just fine.Amazon has several fume extractors and they all attempt to draw the fumes into an activated charcoal filter. Pick one!Don't know anything about ESR meters, I would probably build one. The Internet has several DIY ESR Meter projects. Or I would buy something from Amazon and see how it turns out.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 09:19:10 pm
content: At some point, you will want a decent signal generator, probably an Arbitrary Waveform Generator (AWG). The Siglent SDG1032 is pretty popular and I have the SDG2082. You can create some pretty interesting waveforms with these devices because you can assemble a waveform from a fundamental frequency and up to 8 harmonics at arbitrary amplitudes and phases. I'm talking about the 2082, check the User Manual for the 1032.Joseph Fourier would have a ball with one of these things!You might want specialty generators if you want to work at RF or on TVs, I don't get into that kind of thing.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2021, 10:19:18 pm
content: Here is a credible ESR Meter project. Lacking Gerber files for the PCB, you can order from ExpressPCB - the files are included in the download but you will get 3 boards (minimum) for about $80. That's pretty pricey for PCBs but you can get them in 2 days or so. Partner up with somebody to split up the boards.https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/january2016_ESRMeterforTestBenchThere are other projects out there...

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 12:04:43 am
content: Thanks for all the info rstofer, I really appreciate it. I honestly wasn't expecting anyone to do the research for me, I just hadn't gotten there yet. I did use the search for the meter/solder station/hot air and it provided 100's of discussions (which I have been reading for the last week).The biggest question I am trying to answer currently is: Does the Hakko 951 add any creature comforts or major benefits to a non-production environment. There were a lot of post that indicated the jump from a bad iron to the 888 was huge and the jump from the 888 to the 951/Ads200 was equal in size, but it was difficult to determine if the reasons were due to a specific task, production environment, or if they would translate to my use. I typically subscribe to the buy once cry once mentality. I know there are a lot more expensive solder stations and I suffer from the "It's only $100 more and has even better shiny bits that I may use one day".The signal generator and bench power are probably things I should add to my list, but can figure out later.Thanks again for the input.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 12:41:29 am
content: For an ESR meter there is still the possibility to get some DER EE DE5000 from japan, they are still sold via ebay.Got mine (as a german customer) also that way and had no trouble regarding customs as the declarations were made from the seller, so only had to pay the (expected) import tax.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 12:42:54 am
content: You should probably search for either or both soldering stations or start a new thread asking only about the two soldering stations. Adding it to a huge 'shopping list' type post it will likely get overlooked.I would use either of them. My selection criteria would be the types of tips available. I almost always use a 1/16" chisel but drag soldering works better with a big club foot concave tip because it holds more solder.Here's a video on drag soldering, there are many on the web. The author isn't using a club foot tip but it is pretty wide.https://youtu.be/wUyetZ5RtPs

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 12:52:03 am
content: Quote from: nightfire on December 10, 2021, 12:41:29 amI have that meter but hardly ever use it. ESR just isn't a thing for me, I work on new uC and FPGA boards with the operative word being 'new'.Amazon has the meter and I can get it in a couple of dayshttps://www.amazon.com/5000-Accuracy-Handheld-Meter-Tl-21/dp/B00O5537V0In terms of reactance and impedance, I have a neat attachment for my Analog Discovery 2 - my favorite toolhttps://digilent.com/shop/impedance-analyzer-for-analog-discovery/https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-2-100ms-s-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/I liked the AD2 a lot more when it was $279 and would recommend it every chance I got. Now, well, I still recommend it but I don't blame people for blowing it off. It's pricey! But it is still a terrific tool and if I could only have one tool, that's the one I would pick.

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 01:48:06 am
content: Thanks, I will definitely check both those out. The Analog Discovery 2 looks really interesting.That is a really good point about the stations getting lost in the post. The reason I gave a laundry list was to give context so someone could say something like "spend less on the station and get a better hot air tool" or "skip the hot air tool and get the Pace" or "yeah, that looks like a sane plan". I was also hoping for some things to look at like the Analog Discovery 2.Both the Pace and Hakko 951 exceed my selection criteria (the 888 does as well). I added the T15-BCM3 tip to the station because it is a horse hoof like tip that I thought would be good for drag soldering.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 03:57:57 pm
content: Quote from: TheWildMan on December 10, 2021, 01:48:06 amYou can download the Waveforms software and play with the 'Demo' device to get a flavor of what the device can do.https://digilent.com/shop/software/digilent-waveforms/It has limitations: bandwidth is limited when compared to a 100 MHz scope and the biggest limitation is input voltage of +-25V peak. This is no issue for most uC projects and certainly not for educational circuits. To get around this, you can use the BNC adapter and 10X probes (preferablyfixed10X) but you lose the 'differential' input capability. Differential inputs allow you to measure the drop across a component (say a transistor or resistor) even when neither end is connected to ground. One obvious application is directly measuring Vce on a transistor amplifier. There are others.So, use the adapter when you must and skip it when working on low voltage stuff. All of my projects are low voltage so it's no concern.The bandwidth is 30 MHz with the BNC adapter (because long dangling wires are not conducive to high frequency work) but that's more than enough for most practical circuits.https://digilent.com/shop/analog-discovery-2-100ms-s-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/I have said many times that I can spend an entire day playing with a resistor (10k) and capacitor (100 nF ceramic). I would want a Bode' Plot of the low pass (or high pass) filter configuration or maybe I would want to play in the time domain and study the charge and discharge characteristics, Or maybe I just want to play with an FFT. I haven't even talked about the digital capability. There's a reason that these went out of stock at the beginning of Covid - the universities bought them all up so students could do lab work remotely.For students, this gadget is ideal! You can actually build the circuits in the textbook and see them work. I would have learned a lot more in college if I had had this device.See attached...

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 08:14:54 pm
content: Historically over the last two years right around the Christmas/New Years period tequipment.net put the Pace ADS200 on sale at a reduced price (before they bumped it up further). Eevblog members should also be able to stack the 6% discount code on that and Pace qualifies for free shipping over $99. So there is opportunity to get it a little cheaper at least (if you are in the US).The ADS200 is a better station than the FX951, the main difference is it's faster heating, metal construction (including the handpiece), the higher power means you can also run tweezers on it as well if you decide later. It could be cheaper, but it has a totally different vibe than the FX951. It's also worth noting that the FX951 is not a giant leap in performance over traditional tip over heater style handpieces. Cartridge tips are less painful to swap though.For ESR meter and LCR meter in one, the DER EE DE5000 is probably the best option. But you could start with a cheap $20 Chinese component tester (also ESR/LCR) and they also do some silicon devices. If you were doing a lot of in circuit capacitor ESR testing I would suggest Bob Parker designed ESR meter. He has a couple of new ones called Blue2. The reason why I suggest not using an LCR meter for in-circuit testing - the inputs are easily damaged by charged caps. Bob Parkers can handle from 50V to a few hundred if you add some diodes. Anyway, always discharge the caps before testing ESR and capacitance no matter what you are using.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2021, 08:23:53 pm
content: I second the DER EE DE5000 as LCR/ESR-Meter, it absolutely worth the bucks

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2021, 06:25:46 am
content: Thanks everyone, the DE-5000 Handheld LCR Meter is on it's way. Thanks for the note on discharging the caps, it is a good reminder.I will hold off on the FX951 and see if the ADS200 goes on sale. Can someone PM me the Eevblog code for tequipment.net?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2021, 07:54:27 am
content: Congrats on the LCR meter. Here is that discount request thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-members-discount-at-tequipment/

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 03:28:16 am
content: You mention repair work, upgrading your solder station and getting a hot air system. Good start for repairs. I'll add my 2C. I spent big on a microscope and consider it one of my more useful tools, especially for SMD repair work. I'd look to add a microscope to the list. You might be surprised how often it gets used for other than electronics work.

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 06:04:18 am
content: Thanks. I have a compound microscope already and had planned on getting a stereo for science time with the kids. That way I get to spend a little more, but still lives on the bench (which is why I didn't list it). I was planning to get an AmScope - SM-4NTP 7X-45X, but I just watched Steve's (SDG Electronics Youtube channel) videos on the AmScope and Eakins, so I may relook. With shipping they are about the same cost, but the Eakins comes with a camera, ring light and lenses. The Eakins also seems to have some QC issues posted from a few EEVBlog members. I thought about getting the Eakins 4K Video Microscope with HDMI, but it makes sense that not having depth perception would make working under it more difficult. The camera is important because of all the extra things it will be used for and I will be teaching soldering in a few years.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2021, 03:10:03 pm
content: Or you can just ditch the microscope, check out the NorthbridgeFix channel on youtube.He works directly off an LED display. I use an inspection camera and display as well, no microscope.https://www.youtube.com/c/NorthridgeFix/videos

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2021, 11:02:47 pm
content: Thanks Shock, I am looking into that. I have watched his channel, but didn't catch that he only used a camera until you pointed it out.

author: Brad808
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 06:48:54 pm
content: I have a few esr meters that I use but the Peak ESR70 is my favorite for quick in circuit troubleshooting and general maintenance. I test a lot of caps and it's just so much faster than anything else. It auto discharges any charged caps and has audible alerts so I can keep my eyes on the board and just jump from one cap to the next. With the tweezer attachment I hold the board with one hand and tweezers in the other. Any caps that give a questionable tone get pulled and tested thoroughly in a Sencore lc102. After using it for the last few years I couldn't imagine ever going back to a meter where you have to manually ensure the caps are discharged... (Which is how I blew my old ESR meter by getting lazy).

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2021, 07:25:59 pm
content: I was just going to add my vote for the DE-5000 but since you were capable of ordering it without my help, I'll rephrase into a congratulation to the acquisition!Bench power: A6237 is near-ideal, in my humble opinion. But there are newer ones that work as well. And, my6206b gets a lot of use too.Since you're going to need more multimeters it sometimes is beneficial to look for good used ones. More than a few of us regulars in the TEA thread made good bargains on a batch of ex-USMC yet pristine (mine had the display protection film still on) Fluke 27 meters, with HV probes, a while back. Things show up now and then.

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2021, 04:32:04 am
content: Quote from: Brad808 on December 15, 2021, 06:48:54 pmSince I will be doing this infrequently and can be forgetful, I have this concern as well. I looked at the Peak and may need to make room for two on the bench if I wind up testing caps a lot. I really like the approach of troubleshoot with the Peak and test with the DE-5000.Quote from: mansaxel on December 15, 2021, 07:25:59 pmI will look into the HP's you listed. I was planning to get a Hanmatek HM310T because of thisEEVBlog thread. I program and have worked extensively with Modbus professionally, so it sounded interesting. I was also planning to get an EEVblog BM786 Multimeter, but will also keep my eyes open for a good used Fluke 27. We try to do as much work around the property as possible, and a good multimeter is always handy.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2021, 10:44:51 pm
content: I'm going to give you a different perspective that may or may not be helpful. My electronics training took placed decades ago and most of my career has been in industrial automation. We use the knowledge of electronics almost everyday but it is not in the way a bench tech or engineer would. Basically you find a fault, replace the board and go on to the next big issue (with a lot of little stuff in between). My renewed interest in electronics at a deeper level, and to remember what i learned all those years ago, is for hobby related projects and MAYBE to pick up work in retirement. so given that some comments inline below.Quote from: TheWildMan on December 09, 2021, 08:34:47 pmSometimes you just need to buy a new tool!!!QuoteIt should be noted that many Arduino / Raspberry PI projects do not require a lot of high end equipment and in some case none at all. Before I comment on your list below, realize that it is sometimes better to suffer the old equipment to better budget for new stuff.QuoteYou will never regret a god soldering station, however this is one item I'd put off until the bench is better fleshed out if that old soldering station works at all.QuoteNot familiar with that one at all. How quickly you get such really depends upon how soon you will be doing a lot of SMT work.QuoteYou shouldn't look at this as upgrades but rather as a supplement. The BM786 is a good meter in that regard. The big problem from my perspective though is that bench work really benefits from a bench DMM. In a nut shell they are easier to use on a bench, easier to read and sometimes more flexible. That doesn't mean high end either just that a meter that sits properly on a bench or shelf is far easier to work with.QuoteNo recent experience here but the DM5000 come to mind via reputation.QuoteI'd put this very high on your priority list, probably number one. I'd rather see you spend money here first than on a new soldering station or DMM (this assumes that the work). The problem then becomes how much. That becomes a problem for you personally and your budget, but I'd avoid the absolute entry level.QuoteHonestly will you be doing that much soldering in the beginning? An open window with a fan in it would solve a lot of the minor fume problems. Now if you are at the bench every day laying down miles of solder then yes go for proper extraction. It is likely more important to wash ones hands after using lead based solder.QuoteEquipment can be an issue but it can also be an excuse. Some of my first electronics experimentation involved there terminal regulators (hot technology at the time) and largely salvaged components. You can get back into it with far less than you might imagine, fix the really sore spots first and move forward. Also don't reject the idea of DIY instruments, power supplies for those single board computers come to mind. If you are working on an audio system of some sort an MP3 player or even a laptop computer can do the job of a sound source. Is an MP3 player a perfect signal generator - nope not by a long shot - however it can keep you moving forward. If the end goal is fixing something, how you do so (assuming you do so safely) shouldn't matter. By the way bench power supplies are a bit like DMM's, over time you will likely need more than one.QuoteI must be the only person on this forum that has never used a Hakko, I understand that they are decent soldering stations but don't forget that there are several other brands that are also worthwhile.QuoteWell I mentioned power supplies. Considering that you are already well equipped, compared to a complete starter, I'd focus on a really decent scope.While not electronic instrumentation I'd look seriously at a decent roll around tool box that can be located near your bench. Organization is the hardest thing I do but it really helps to have the hand tools in one place. If you get one large enough you can also use it for parts storage until you outgrow it. For example larger parts can be stored in bins like these:https://www.schallercorporation.com/other smaller parts can be stored in sleeves in a drawer too. Beyond that storage quickly becomes a problem, hopefully you have lots of space.Basic tools can mean different things to different people so you may want to consider crimpers, electric drills, nibblers, punches and so forth, for chassis work. Thankfully most of the required hand tool needs are in fact very common so not a big deal for most people. Don't forget mirrors, in the old days it helped with TV setup but they are still useful on the bench. If you get into robotics or your kids do, then you will need an expanded set of mechanical/hand tools. Another tool that comes to mind is a pair of calipers for greater precision in measurement.

author: TheWildMan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2021, 06:49:54 am
content: I appreciate the input and different perspective. My original goal for this thread was to figure out what pieces of equipment were worth splurging on and what I should go cheap on because it wouldn't matter, so your comments are right on. I can afford nice tools, but I don't like to waste money. Comments like:Quote from: wizard69 on December 19, 2021, 10:44:51 pmandQuote from: wizard69 on December 19, 2021, 10:44:51 pmare exceptionally useful and give great perspective.My existing iron doesn't work for anything small or large (or most things in between). It has a 6" long large conical tip that connects into the heater handle with a pair of set screws. I haven't found any replacement tips that fit and the heat recovery is really bad. Based on your input I went back and validated that the iron doesn't actually work for what I need and needs to be replaced.Before I saw your post, I ordered an AiXun T3A with T245 handle for $110 based on the good reviews received on the forum and in member videos (EEVBlog and SDG Electronics). This should get me through my immediate needs and allow me to wait for a good deal on a better iron setup (if I need one). The AiXun will then become a gift to my brother or a backup iron. I also bought a Mechanic 861DW clone since I have 3 projects that need SMB components replaced (from a US based store).I like the bench meter idea, getting the DMM into a spot where I can read it is always fun!The scope is the next piece of gear that I plan to buy, followed closely by a bench power supply. I already have a few server/pc power supplies and boxes of random bricks/molded supplies, but the ease of use and not digging through a box is very appealingFume extractor is a must have. We have a very tight house and people with smell sensitivities. The good news is that I also need to put in a bathroom exhaust fan in our basement, so this got added to that project. A few companies make remote exhaust fans that are designed to run two rooms. The one I purchased is speed controlled with a max of 250CFM and will be ducted to the bench. My father-in-law did a lot of soldering/airbrushing and built a dedicated fume hood. I may eventually copy his design.I have a few roll around toolboxes, but I will look at a smaller one for electronics stuff. I am horrible with organization and since tools tend to serve many purposes, there are a few areas designated as tool storage. Having a tool storage place other than the bench top is a good idea.I tend to be a Mr. Fix-it for most things, so I am very stocked on the tool front (but there is always some other tool that I absolutely can't live without). Being an old computer repair person, I have a large assortment of parts as well.Thanks for the detailed post, it gives me a lot to consider and think about (and a some new reasons to buy new tools).P.S. While I am aware that Arduino/Raspberry PI projects typically don't require high end equipment, some others who may have input into budget things may not