DCS (Deep Cycle Systems) Batteries - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: racemaniac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 08:19:40 am
content: Maybe an interesting story for Dave to participate in (Louis Rossman at the end of the video mentions Dave as a possibly interested party)Short summary DCS (Deep Cycle Systemsfrom Australia) is suing a small youtuber for defamation after he made a video complaining about the batteries losing capacity too quickly, and DCS not honering its warranty. The capacity loss in one case was measured by muultiple independent parties, but when sending it in for warranty, DCS came to completely different numbers with a bad way of measuring (over discharging, then overcharging, and thus measuring the charge, not the discharge). To top it off, he was able to show that DCS stealth changed their warranty policy on their site (which is the only source of the warranty, they don't print it). (With louis also showing that for some reason on the internet archive suddenly all old version of that page have been purged after the video the small youtuber made... but there are other archives that show that it happened)Louis already did his part to get the Streisand effect started, let's keep it goingHere is the original video by the youtuber regarding DCS issues:There are also multiple updates regarding his legal issues with DCS on his channel (among which some actual defation by DCS... They stating they're not suing any truthful reviewers, and making claims about his relationship to DCS, and how he would pretend he bought DCS products rather than getting them for review...)

author: matt4054
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 02:23:35 pm
content: This is insane!For consolidation purposes, there is another thread that was opened shortly after this one, here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/dcs-sues-small-youtuber-for-accurate-product-review/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 09:40:30 pm
content: So it says 4 years warranty, 3 years under hood.2500 cycles >80% capacity, 100% DOD.Was that the original or updated warranty spec? Didn't watch the full video.They should have just specified 80% DOD to get way higher cycle life.

author: racemaniac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 05:56:28 am
content: They changed it to 70% under some conditions, and also have a dodgy way of measuring the capacity (discharging it beyond their own recommendations, and then charging it beyond their own recommendations...). There was also something about that the batteries should not be exposed to a temperature above 25°C, which is ridiculous for batteries marketed to be installed under the hood of a vehicle...

author: ahmtkipkip
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 05:09:42 pm
content: We are waiting for Dave to investigate the issue with teardown

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2024, 10:09:30 pm
content: Quote from: racemaniac on July 25, 2024, 05:56:28 amSo dumb, why not just give the guy his warranty and then change their spec going forward.Maybe they could try to insulate the battery from the engine heat a bit, though don't know how realistic that is.

author: racemaniac
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 06:34:36 am
content: That's probably part of why they're suing him, it's not just him, he's in contact with several other people who had the issue (or even worse issues, he had pictures of a battery that had exploded before the garage had the chance to install it, so far only one, so probably not widespread), but he's also clearly telling his audience to be very wary of these batteries, to capacity test them before you leave for vacation, and also before your warranty expires. And he's popular enough to have had many complaints from viewers about this brand, so he might be/become responsible for a significant increase in warranty requests... i get why they're afraid of him...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2024, 05:57:15 am
content: My understanding is that it's not possible for a business to sue an individual for "defamation" in Australia (if that is what their suit is about). Even if someone falsely claimed that a product was garbage/a lie/dangerous etc...Will be keen to see more details about this supposed case.You can call a CEO of a company a fuckwit that produces shit products and you'd be legally protected.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2024, 01:37:12 am
content: Just watched a vid from the alloffraods guy. Apparently they were due in court today (30th July) for some administrative matters regarding the case.He said he would give an update but based on comments being disabled for legal reasons he may not be able to do so

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2024, 11:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on July 30, 2024, 01:37:12 amI smell a generous settlement along with aNonDisclosureAgreement. I'm sure it would been cheaper for Fuckwit and Co to simply refunded alloffroads to begin with. But once that started trying to scare him with lawyers, it wasgame on!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:48:54 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 28, 2024, 05:57:15 amUnfortunately it is possible anyone, either a business or an individual to attemt to sue anyone for anything. Whether or not it's "possible", "legal", or completely baseless, a lot fo tiem and and money can be wasted with lawyers until a judge gets around to either letting the case proceed or tossing it out of court. By which time it can bankrupt you.I don't think the company has a snow balls chance in hell of sucessfully suing for anything, let alone defamation, but that might not matter. DCS are a bunch of dicks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:51:16 am
content: Quote from: ahmtkipkip on July 25, 2024, 05:09:42 pmUnfortunately the only way to test this sort of thing is with long term testing, which takes a very long time, in this case, years.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2024, 06:41:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 31, 2024, 07:48:54 amApparently if the business has more than 10 employees, then they have no cause of action for defamation.Still, regardless, I think their argument is baseless and would be laughed out of any court, particularly as the Australian Government itself has found that DCS's batteries are shit (I'm paraphrasing). Time will tell I suppose.No matter what happens, DCS has lost a lot of future business because of this crap they are trying to pull. I hope they end up bust. Charlatans like DCS have no business here in Australia.There is a GoFundMe page set up to help Stephen, should you wish to donate:https://gofund.me/db05fa07

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 11:15:26 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 10, 2024, 06:41:55 amStephan and his lawyers believe they do not fall under this catgeory, and the court will rule on this on Oct 14th. So it will either go ahead or the suit will be dismissed on that date.

author: graybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 12:10:03 am
content: There is a branch oh DCS in the USA. Do those employees count?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 12:57:56 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 10, 2024, 06:41:55 amI just looked and people have donated almost $82,000 for Stephen's defense fund. I think DCS is going to have a major legal problem very soon.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 01:33:20 am
content: The internet archive has been scrubbed for before 2024

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 07:46:07 am
content: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1317828398/the-field-knife-set-professional-quality-camping-kThey are now the US distributor, their website (tiktaalik.com) is about as dead as it gets.Also, their trademarks are now dead, but they still claim a "TM" and "(R)" on their LinkedIn profiles, website and so on. At least in Germany, that is false advertising and strictly prohibited (probably with fines up to tens of thousands of EURO).At least, that gave me an (probaby outdated) address for their US distributor:Tiktaalik Limited Liability Companyxxx SE Caruthers St.97214 Portland, ORCurrentlyxxx Nokomis Ct Lake Oswego, OR, 97035-7965"DCS" is not a registered trademark in the US (by them).(For that like respect of US privacy, the addresses have been crossed out).Well, that is the american part of the business. May I say more show than go?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 08:33:53 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on August 23, 2024, 07:46:07 amA distributor would not be classified as an employee for reasons of the lawsuit in question.Perfectly legal to put "TM" on stuff that isn't actually a registered trademark. In fact it is advised by Trademark attornies to imply publicly you are actively "trading" under that "mark".

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 09:13:40 am
content: Thanks; that seems to be different in Germany. Maybe due to very strict trade laws.However, the use of "(R)" seems to require a *registered* trademark; the registration is expired - and they still use it. That is sketchy - if you are doing business, would you let your company branding slipping away? Not sure about legal consequences in the US or anywhere else.Funny sidenote: The US distribution seems to have about zero stock of items. After checking a dozen of products, they are all on backorder.(I goggled around for a bit, and found a nice essay on the trademark-usage:https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2011/05/trademark-marking-in-europe-what-symbols-to-use-and-when- so it seems you might get into trouble when using (R) without active registration, even in US. On the plus side, it seems DCS does *not* use TM or (R) in the US, so that's fine.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 12:09:05 am
content: Video TLDR: just your average cheap chinese lifepo4 battery- Doesn't have undertemp charging protection.- Cell temperature was not on the cells.- Some poor wiring layout- False advertising claiming active balancing (which you don't want anyway)- Good surge ability (1000A)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 24, 2024, 12:39:05 am
content: Quote from: Haenk on August 23, 2024, 09:13:40 amYes, R is only for Registered. I don't even know who or why someone would prosecute you for doing that without actually have the registration though, as it only really matters during trademark enforcement cases.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 10:41:45 pm
content: Just made the screenshot below.DCS is going down hard.There are now also at least 4 threads about this on this forum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/dcs-(deep-cycle-systems)-batterieshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/other-blog-specific/dcs-sues-small-youtuber-for-accurate-product-reviewhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblab-120-dcs-sues-youtuber-for-defamation!-threatens-entire-review-industhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/dcs-battery-(australia)-lawsuit-against-youtuber

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2024, 11:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2024, 01:33:20 amI didn't know that was even possible.If that was a deliberate action by DCS, that could be viewed as "destroying or concealing evidence", although whether that also applies to civil proceedings, I'm not sure.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2024, 01:25:32 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on September 03, 2024, 11:50:31 pmI'm of the understanding that you can request removal of your own site.QuoteIf it was done after you started the legal proceedings then it's certainly not going to look good.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 07:20:08 pm
content: Looks like they might have forgotten about this one whichdates backhas some articles from to 2021.https://archive.ph/www.deepcyclesystems.com.auOr maybe they just took out the stuff that they didn't want to be seen anymore.The Trove archive doesn't seem to be flexible I can't seem to download the pages or present the pages fully as it seems to be in an Iframe.Warranty, Shipping & Return Policies2021https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20210309133200/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/2022https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20220324200822/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20221028051546/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/2023https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20230309064156/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 11:45:52 pm
content: QuoteQuote from: EEVblog on August 23, 2024, 01:33:20 amAbsolutely disgusting.Oh look I have evidence you altered the warranty according from an older copy of your website on archive.orgDCS: Lets demand archive.org remove it from history then continue to sue him.We only want the court to see what we want them to see and everything else we don't want them to see well just say it is copyright and demand they dispose of itLooks like I can't rely on Archive.org anymore to find out past facts.I wonder how far will they go and whether they'd pursue this other person who tested their batteries and tore it down but he's from the states.QuoteHe thinks it's not even their own battery so if that is the case and they talk about copyright.https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20210309133431/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/terms-conditions/10 Mar 2021www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/terms-conditions/QuoteSo they could do what they like.Joke: You agree to follow and be bound to kiss our a*rse and be gagged.I wonder if this was the case when he purchased his first battery in 2019 but they had it removed from Archive.orgQuote*Trying to copyright word of mouth.QuoteSo in other words they "welcome" comments about their products and services but nobody can tell of them as the DCS proclaims it as their property and subject it to copyright and then come after you.**Joke: Don't give them any ideas.I just found this doing a reverse lookup of their BMS board:https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/our-technology/I wonder, is it an off the shelf part of did they copied their picture.I see they registered the domain in 2019 according to whois.https://whois.domaintools.com/ksenergy.co.ukQuoteThey seemed to have update details on their domain.https://whois.domaintools.com/deepcyclesystems.com.auQuoteBut WHERE is created and expired and I am pretty sure I usually see those?Noticed the domain registrar is also AustralianQuotehttps://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/63611396591QuoteBeen in business since 2017Just noticed:https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/eevblab-120-dcs-sues-youtuber-for:deevBLAB 120 - DCS sues Youtuber for Defamation1:37In the video, "A corporation is excluded if (b) it has fewer than 10 employee's* and is not an associated entity of another corporation, and the corporation is not a public body.*What's this then I wonder:On the reverse lookup of that battery management board I also notice an EU website of theirs with the same name and logo:Same lack of information about the domain too for the EU website:QuoteEarliest archive:https://web.archive.org/web/20230315101117/https://dcslithiumbatteries.eu/If that is true and they are associated or part of another company and there must be more than ten people working there looking at the contacts below on their EU website which does not seem to state a contact for Australia.Just noticed 10 contacts on an EU website with the same and logo:https://dcslithiumbatteries.eu/contact-us/QuoteWith all those locations and different languages involved how can there be less than 10 people working for them.Also found this:https://soundcloud.com/kaasibQuoteHe does this stuff in Sydney but he's in Pakistan which seems a little odd to me unless he travels there.From a Google customized date search for dcslithiumbatteries.eu to find the earliest article I see a result from 14 Sept 2021.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 10:50:56 pm
content: Just a bit of Google-foo:Dr. Z... Z...Albrecht Dürer Str. 2082152 KraillingZ...@z....deThe domain "z....de" is run by his son (?, but likely), offering engineering solutions, but maybe totally unrelated.However I can't see any real business being done at the german address.More fun:I like the testing of batteries stacked on boxes of batteries. What could go wrong. The rightmost boxes even come with chinese stickers. (The source of the batteries is no surprise, I guess...)Another bit: their EU site, claiming to run their business from Belgium, is in utter contrast to many EU legal requirements. I mean, pretty much all of them.I might try the german address and ask directly for the involvement, plus a fair warning about running a business or at least acting as a business contact with likely non-compliance. I might do some more research tomorrow...

author: JMK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2025, 07:41:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 11, 2024, 11:15:26 pmThe Queensland court threw out the Defamation claim on the "more than 10 employees technicality". Who pays the bills is yet to be sorted.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2025, 12:56:27 am
content: Happy days! DCS can go bugger off. I hope eventually they are ordered to pay costs.

author: graybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2025, 08:17:58 pm
content: DCS is complaining to the government of Australia that posts about it's lawsuit are cyberbullying.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 11:35:05 pm
content: A big problem for DCS is that regardless of the "terms and conditions" on their website and whether you "agree" with them or not, even if you signed a contract with those very terms on it, you can't sign away your rights under Australian Consumer Law. A lot of it sounds like it was written by someone who can string a sentence together using important sounding terms, but has no actual legal training or experience. Anyone can make up "terms" but it doesn't make them legally enforceable, even if the end-user agrees to them.If DCS try any kind of legal action in the future, they might want to be very careful about lying in court, considering the eyes of the world are now upon them and increasingly, old copies of their website are emerging despite their efforts to have them removed from the internet. In a civil matter, the standard of proof "only" amounts to the "Balance of Probabilities", unlike in criminal cases.I've actually given expert evidence recently in court and talked about what was, and was not, available on a particular website at any given time, how websites are crawled, etc... etc...The absolute best thing DCS can do at this stage is to come out publicly and say "We were wrong and we're taking steps to improve our products and customer experience". If they can admit to themselves and the world that this whole matter was mishandled by them from the very start, the might be able to save face, otherwise the reputational damage (that DCS brought on themselves) will continue to snowball.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 02:34:23 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 16, 2025, 11:35:05 pmI'd bet money they will die on this hill.

author: graybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 06:08:56 am
content: Stephan Fischer is seeking help withfunding for the continuing case against DCS.