Rigol DS2072 For Parts/Expired - Should I Buy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 08:35:57 pm
content: Hi everyone. New user here. I'm not working in the electronic field - I'm actually a neuroscientist but keen to get into electronics for the fun.I've been looking for a basic scope, initially I was recommended to buy an analogue 100mHz, 2 channel model, but it seems digital scopes are possibly even a better option now. (The person who advised me hasn't used digital for over 15yrs , so there might have been a few updates). (Please don't ban me if I'm posting anything inappropriate)Anyways, here's my question:I came across a Rigol DS2072 being sold "for parts". The seller says it turns on, but 'needs to be serviced'. A screenshot shows that there are several "expired" Trials. I know this particular model has been hacked before, so I wondered if buying this would be a cheap way of getting a sweet scope." alt="" class="bbc_img" />" alt="" class="bbc_img" />" alt="" class="bbc_img" />Thanks for looking! (Please help)

author: IAmBack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 08:43:56 pm
content: Imo bigger concern is not with expired options, but rather lack of any reasonable plot on the screen. Wide green band on the second image suggests something may be wrong.

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 08:54:33 pm
content: Ok.. Good to know it's not supposed to look like that..I take it you should still be able to use the scope for basic functions if every 'option' is expired, right?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 09:35:48 pm
content: 2nd and 3rd images show the scope in Stop mode displaying a previously captured waveform at a timebase setting too slow to show any detail.

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 09:49:53 pm
content: Does this mean it's not necessarily a sign the scope is broken Tautech?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 09:59:48 pm
content: It’s in ref mode. Whoever took the photo doesn’t know how to use it.That doesn’t mean it isn’t masking issues but that’s not an abnormal display for the mode.Also yeah don’t buy an analogue scope unless you want to fix itOption Keygen search for “riglol” on Google.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 10:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: NizNoz on April 21, 2021, 09:49:53 pmNot IMO.First image is scope ON but both channels OFF.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 10:04:44 pm
content: Hello,the pictures say little if the scope is broken. Can you ask the seller to send you other pictures?Best regardsegonotto

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 10:36:00 pm
content: What kind of pics should I request? I have pics of the casing, ports etc and everything 'looks' good.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 11:04:37 pm
content: My experience with auctions like this is that the condition of the goods rarely is better than described. You may get lucky with very obscure items but a scope is quite some common instrument, and looking at the seller's other sales, he at least appears to have some technical background. Moreover, this scope is the very old "non-A" version without the 50 Ohms input option. The full-screen signal may well indicate a bad ADC which is rare but not unheard of on these instruments. If you are very experienced with analog/digital gear and used to fine pitch SMD reworking, and only if you can get the scope at the initial price ($100 CDN), I would consider a purchase, otherwise it's very likely wasted money. Just my 2ct...Cheers,Thomas

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 11:06:42 pm
content: Thanks Tom. Good points. I appreciate that. As tempting as it seems I think I'd best stay away from this...

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 03:09:07 am
content: Hello,Quote from: NizNoz on April 21, 2021, 10:36:00 pmpicture with both channels on and 1mV/div and picture with both channels on and 1V/div and connected to Probe Compensation Signal Output Terminal.See the example pictures.Best regardsegonotto

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 03:17:31 am
content: It's impossible to say for sure, but it looks like it's probably working fine.Keep in mine a DS1054z is only $328 brand new and is hackable to 100MHz. I don't recommend analog scopes anymore unless you happen to find one really cheap, like $50 or less, or if you have a specific application where an analog scope has advantages. There aren't many.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 11:40:18 am
content: Quote from: NizNoz on April 21, 2021, 08:35:57 pmDigital 'scopes aredefinitelya better option now.Quote from: NizNoz on April 21, 2021, 08:35:57 pmThese scopes come with everything enabled as a time-limited 'trial'. THose trial expire.Quote from: NizNoz on April 21, 2021, 08:35:57 pmThat all depends on a very important, but missing, piece of data: How much is he asking for it??You can get a brand new 'scope with full warranty for about $300 these days, there's no need to go for an old, possibly broken 'scope just to save a few bucks.eg. This one:https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?search=true(which is hackable to 100Mhz and you get EEVBLOG discount)

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 11:46:20 am
content: It's on eBay, with a starting bid of C $100.00 (no bids so far):https://www.ebay.com/itm/233976044578?hash=item367a0f1c22%3Ag%3AAHAAAOSwW9Rgf2c4&LH_ItemCondition=4

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 01:51:09 pm
content: It looks broken to me.

author: goaty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 02:19:27 pm
content: The ref /ch1 waveform is 10V/div in second pic, so this does not look right. Who records 200Vpp at 500us/div ?Could be but I´d say it´s fried memory or acquisition chip. It´s a less than 50/50 chance it´s working.If broken, you need to be exceptionally good to stand any chance of repairing it without or even with schematic.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 06:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: goaty on April 22, 2021, 02:19:27 pmMaybe it's set to use a 10x probe and connected directly to a signal generator? That could be 1V/div, easily a case of someone who just doesn't know how to use a scope.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 06:50:45 pm
content: QuoteNo, absolutely not.Unless you really buy it for parts only, as advertised, in order to fix some other instrument, which is not your plan as it seems.

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 07:20:46 pm
content: Thanks all of you guys. I can’t say how grateful I am to be getting help and advice. This is clearly NOT something I need to be taking a chance on.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2021, 08:42:23 pm
content: Good decision!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2021, 08:41:58 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 22, 2021, 06:34:33 pmIt's set to 10V/div in the photo and there's nothing actually connected to it. There'sNO WAYthe trace can be covering every pixel on the screen.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 05:32:20 pm
content: In keeping with the insanity that eBay has become, it ended up selling for $315, plus shipping.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 05:37:31 pm
content: I guess it was not a EEVBLOG member...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 06:36:13 pm
content: Muppets

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 08:20:58 pm
content: More than I'd pay, but the model that replaced it costs $529. If you had for example a fully working one that had been dropped and broke the housing or had a broken screen or other fault like that then $254 for a parts mule that has the parts you need is not unreasonable. I'm a fan of the TDS3000 series scopes and I've had to pay much more than that for known defective parts scopes.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 08:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on April 28, 2021, 05:32:20 pmSomebody's gonna wake up with a hangover a few days from now.Quote from: james_s on April 28, 2021, 08:20:58 pmBut you can buy a brand new GW-Instek for less than that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 08:56:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 28, 2021, 08:52:51 pmWhat if you don't want a GW-Instek? If you already have an instrument that you like and want to fix and you have the budget, it is irrelevant what a different instrument costs. $254 is not exactly a king's ransom, it's only marginally above my impulse purchase threshold.

author: NizNoz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2021, 11:02:44 pm
content: Holy cow..

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 12:23:10 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 28, 2021, 08:56:02 pma) It's a risk, you might not end up with a working device.b) A brand new Rigol DS2102A is only about $500.c) Seems unlikely - there were many bidders.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 08:51:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 29, 2021, 12:23:10 pmIt's always a risk, but it's a risk that I can see reasons for taking. If I needed a scope and was fairly confident I could fix this one, either because I had one just like it with some other fault or because I was familiar with the hardware then I would be willing to pay $250, that's still half the price of buying a new scope, and it just isn't all that much money. Brand new ones are absurdly cheap and broken ones are even cheaper.Like I said though, these all sound so cheap to me, a known broken TDS3000 will cost you $500+ in most cases.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 08:52:58 pm
content: Difference is a broken TDS3000 will still sell for $500+ if you can't fix it but a broken Rigol will not sell for this offering price.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:08:42 pm
content: A broken Rigol just did sell for this price, which is about half the price of a broken Tek. I really don't see the issue here, in the case of either the Rigol or the Tek, a broken one is apparently worth roughly half the price of a working one. Bottom line is $250 is just not all that much money, who knows why someone bought it, but if there were multiple bidders then clearly several people thought it was worth it. You can argue over someone's asking price being too high, but the sale price of an item that has multiple bidders is by definition a fair price that the buyer agreed to pay. Maybe the next one will go for less, who knows.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:17:00 pm
content: Or the ad is misleading. A working used unit can usually go for half price. A broken one should be lower.$250 is a big amount for many people. But, if someone bided, good for the seller.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 29, 2021, 09:08:42 pmYes agree. Market is insane at the moment so it's based on demand mostly. Prices here are off the scale for rancid old broken stuff. We're seeing hooky TDS210's go for 225 GBP when you can get a new DS1054Z for 360 GBP.Nothing wrong with a bit of arbitrage - that's my supplemental income

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:42:57 pm
content: I'm more than curious if a good-used but in completely working condition DS2000 scope would fetch more than this (doubt it). On Rigol's clearance sales (Europe), similar scopes (DS2102E), including 2 years of warranty, are offered at ~350EUR. DS2000A models are available as well, slightly dearer.I get the impression that there are certain folks who are specifically looking for the challenge to repair an item, assuming they are on to a bargain and forgetting about the price over all of this... just like the hunter who's got the "tunnel view" on his prey.IMO, 250 USD is a lot for an impulse purchase -- for my own part, the limit for this kind of "no worries" deal would be maybe one fifth of that (depending on the item of course), and I'm pretty sure there are loads of folks who wouldn't easily spend one thenth of my "limit" for items not absolutely necessary for daily life.Whatsoever, I guess the seller got lucky and probably didn't expect to score so much for a dated, broken Chinese "B" brand scope. Though it's not the worst scope if the buyer's able to fix it, I've got to add...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 09:56:58 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on April 29, 2021, 09:42:57 pmThe power supply seems OK and the screen seems OK so that rules out the easy fixes.All that's left is:a) The analog front end - fiddly and youreallyneed to know what you're doing, orb) The main PCB, which is highly integrated - if one of the big chips has been zapped then forget it.The sort of person who can do (a) probably doesn't need a Rigol 2000 so where does that leave us? A repair challenge? Surely there's cheaper challenges out there.OTOH there were a lot of bidders so what do I know?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2021, 10:23:36 pm
content: I guess the bidders assume the scope just works and that the seller has no clue what he/she is selling.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2021, 04:30:23 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on April 29, 2021, 09:17:00 pmI recently looked at sold (as in actual sold prices, not asking prices) Rigol scopes on ebay and found that in most cases they fetch almost as much as the cost of a brand new one from Tequipment, in several cases I've seen them sell for MORE than the cost of ordering a brand new one. Why? I really have no idea but that's reality, maybe it's people who don't know what they're buying, maybe it's people who are not aware of some of the cheaper dealers, maybe they get caught up in bidding, maybe it's something else, I really don't know. What I do know is that I have never seen one sell for a price that I would consider a bargain.I understand that $250 is a lot of money for some people, certainly when I was a kid in the 90s that was more than I could scrape up in a year but things are different now, I have a good job, dual income with no kids, I paid cash for my cars years ago and I have no debt except for my house which will be paid off in just a few years. Having prioritized and lived within my means for years I'm in the enviable position of having plenty of disposable income and I'm well below the median income of the region I live in. With Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Vulcan and several other tech companies within a few miles of here there are a LOT of people who have a LOT of money and $250 is peanuts to them. Whether those are the same people who would buy a broken used scope I don't know, but a lot of them are engineers.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2021, 04:59:02 am
content: It's not affordability. I can buy any Rigol or Siglent scope I want to (Keysight has a few models I can't write the check for....) but I would pay maybe $50 for a broken mystery model like that, maybe $100 if I had a known working one with broken parts where I was 100% assured of a fix. This is a two-generation old scope with no eBay sales other than the one here. Some guy also wants $2000 for a hacked 2072A. It's just a crazy time.https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=rigol+ds2072&_sacat=0

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2021, 05:48:23 am
content: There are a lot of people who WANT crazy prices for things but this thing SOLD for the price it did, with multiple bids. What you would pay is clearly not in line with what others will pay, look at sold items, you just don't see ANY modern compact DSO in ANY condition for under about $200 unless it's a low end model that is completely trashed. Any item is worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay, and in this case numerous somebodies were willing to pay more than you are. Why is anyone's guess but I'm sure they had their reasons.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2021, 08:54:28 pm
content: Hello,if the buyer give a feedback we know more.Best regardsegonotto

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2021, 09:09:49 pm
content: I'm thinking in opening a bricked scope shop... I'll go rich!

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 12:07:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 30, 2021, 04:30:23 amGotta be caught up in bidding, the deals on new ones are impossible to miss. If you Google "ds1054z" the first result is an ad for Tequipment, first actual result is a Tequipment amazon listing priced at the usual $349. The same search on ebay gives the first result as a sponsored listing from Tequipment, $349 BIN, seems they bank on volume and advertise accordingly. Used scopes are far from the only used thing that sells on ebay near or even above readily available retail prices, I'd get it if there were an actual shortage of the item in question, but there usually isn't.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 01:06:07 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on April 30, 2021, 09:09:49 pmWould you tell me your source for broken scopes??

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 01:37:32 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 30, 2021, 05:48:23 amThat saying should be modified to say that an item is worth what a fully informed, rational person is willing to pay in an arms-length transaction under normal circumstances. The reasons someone might pay more are really the item of interest here. Just because they 'have reasons' doesn't mean they aren't crazy reasons.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 02:03:45 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on May 01, 2021, 01:06:07 pmAs you can imagine my own hands are an inexhaustible source...