Does lying about item location deserve negative feedback (eBay)? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:08:25 am
content: Hi group,I recently purchased an item on eBay believing the item was in the USA. The vendor in their listing listed the item location as New York, New York.The vendor has a USA phone number and address in their listing.I bought the item and was given a waybill number indicating the item was being shipped from Hong Kong.I chose this vendor based on item location. Does the seller deserve negative (or neutral feedback)?I did report this to eBay indicating that the item location was misrepresented.What do you think?The item number is 111408997643Link:http://www.ebay.ca/itm/111408997643?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: KC0PPH
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:22:36 am
content: id give neutral feedback and state why

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:34:56 am
content: If it arrives within the delivery timeframe stated, I would let it slide (benefit of the doubt, maybe they keep stock locally but happened to run out, they do have "ship from USA" plastered on some of their listngs), if not, I'd give a negative.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:43:42 am
content: +1 Completely agree - no ambiguity allowed.If it was ok, I'd pay you with money showing my face on the front and quote them in UDS (typo) -- Useless Denomination Stuff

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:55:43 am
content: Most of his items show location as Hong Kong. A few even used ebay's global shipping program which strongly suggests that they were in the States. He's only been on ebay for a few months. Could be an honest mistake.If everything works out okay, I might consider the fourth feedback option - none. To me that's between neutral and positive - it doesn't help him, but doesn't hurt him either. That's particularly important to someone who's just getting started.Ed

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 02:57:07 am
content: Neutral as well, I do favor products that ship from the US, even if products from China or Hong Kong take only about 10 days to get here, but sometimes it can take months.The thing is, that stating the item is in the US will make a seller to use them over one that really ships them locally but in this case there are no US sellers. But they are misguiding users nevertheless.

author: iRad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 03:43:46 am
content: This issue is a bit more serious than just concern over time to ship. What if the item you receive is DOA or Not As Described? Sure you can most likely return it for a refund, but at what expense? For a US buyer, there is a big difference in cost to return an item to China, as opposed to NY. Even though the listing says “Hassel Free Returns”, that option DOES NOT APPLY to shipments OR returns to a non-US address. You will be able to get your original cost plus shipping back (provided you can prove you returned the item), but the cost to return the item is NOT guaranteed to be refunded by eBay. How do I know this, because it has happened to me and was a HUGE hassle. In my case the seller said he was in NY, but was actually in Canada. Although shipping to Canada is usually cheaper than to China, were talking about an Oscilloscope in my case that was badly misrepresented (Item Not As Described). I had to return the scope at my expense to Canada, and the seller refused to reimburse me. In my case, the seller lied about location and lied about condition. I gave the seller NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. For some time he continued to state his location for listings as being in NY, but I believe he is no longer an active eBay member.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 03:45:47 am
content: Before you leave feedback, do the right thing, andcontact the seller first.Usually they will offer some for of partial refund, or goodies to keep you happy. Most will bend over backwards(or forwards) to make sure you don't leave neutral or negative feedback.Leaving neutral feedback hurts the seller's list ranking the same as Negative feedback - most people don't know that.

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 03:46:55 am
content: Check your credit card account (on line) that your Paypal account uses (assuming you paid this way). Verify there is no foreign bank transfer fee. It will not show up in the paypal statement. It typically is .1% of the total, with the credit card vendor rounding it to 1 dollar.I've had this happen 3 times now, and PayPal and eBay know nothing about this charge, and don't care.I purposely only purchase US locations for this reason (and that the purchase protection is only valid to purchases in my case within the USA).These 3 fees were for fake US addresses, 2 were Canada, the other Hong Kong.And I would leave negative feedback.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 04:42:34 am
content: I am in Canada and I often prefer items that are not in USA - reason is unreasonable shipping fees. I am not sure if there is something wrong with Ebay shipping cost calculations, or US sellers simply unaware how to set shipping costs correctly for Canadians?For example Recently I was inquiring about Rohde & Schwarz spectrum analyzer - it is a big unit, so for shipping cost it shows $400 US. I send message to seller and ask how much is actual shipping cost - he said around $90. It is OK, but I have to do that for EVERY SINGLE ITEM shipping from US. Small GaN transistor that fits into a tiny envelope and ships from anywhere (like UK or Germany) free or $3 max - from US, which is right next door, it is $12 or $16. That kind of situation bugs me for few years now.

author: TheRuler8510
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 05:34:58 am
content: I would say negative feedback for that is a bit extreme--like life in prison for jay-walking. I've gotten stuff on Amazon while thinking it was in the USA but they came from China. So in-other-words, there is a lot of that going on, and that is the least of our worries.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 07:12:27 am
content: Quote from: george graves on July 26, 2014, 03:45:47 amWell this all depends.They might want to keep you happy to keep your mouth shut, but I agree on contacting the seller first and resolving the problem but not just by goodies or partial refunds, take them as long as they change their misleading information for other buyers.Otherwise it's a disservice not just to others but to yourself, because if everyone that was wise of the misinformation and took the partial refund instead they are not helping the community at large so you can't expect others to report it either.And if you think that you are too clever so you wont be affected, good for you, but it might affect friends and family because you are part of the problem by not taking action.

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 09:05:51 am
content: Well it would really piss me off if the result were the imposition of import tax or customs duties as a result. If I know I am buying from abroad they may be expected, but not on a local purchase.Although as suggested above, if the item arrived safely on time and at no extra cost I would probably ignore it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 09:16:15 am
content: Quote from: iRad on July 26, 2014, 03:43:46 amThat is way too much hassle and you are overthinking the whole situation. Just open a Paypal claim if the item doesn't work. Then ask the seller if he wants you to send it back on his dime. In most cases you'll get a refund OR a new item. It's that simple.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 09:33:34 am
content: I would have thought electronics engineers would understand the usefulness of negative feedback. Leaving negative feedback in this case helps everybody.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 09:37:50 am
content: I shall err on the side of generousity if it is 50-50% case. But if it anything that concerns about refund or quality of goods because of past bad experiences from these traders I would not be. Normally I try to give benefits of doubts to others as I would like to be given if I am on the receiving ends. :-)

author: iRad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 10:36:20 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 26, 2014, 09:16:15 amYou are wayunderthinking the whole situation if you think "Just open a PayPal claim" or "ask the seller" will solve everything. You should ALWAYS GIVE THE SELLER THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT and contact them first, as was done in the above case. The seller refused to ship back "on his dime" as often happens. AND the only way I got any money back from the seller was because I opened a PayPal claim, almost a week after the seller received the scope back in Canada and refused to return email or other attempts to contact him. That seller rightly deserved negative feedback.Seriously, if anyone thinks just opening an eBay or PayPal claim solves everything, you are very mistaken... But opening a claim is there as a useful tool when all else fails, a last resort only.Everyone, every seller and every buyer can make a mistake. I always recommend trying to work things out directly with someone before taking more drastic action. Most of the time things are able to be worked out. But when you buy hundreds of items from eBay, you are bound to run into a few bad apples with bad intent, bad sellers (and sometimes buyers) looking to take advantage of others. This is statically a small percentage, but happens often because of the shear number of transactions happening on eBay.As a seller myself, I know keeping my Feedback score high means making sure my buyers are satisfied. And I appreciate it when a buyer gives me a chance to correct any oversight or problem they have with a purchase. But, what good or purpose does that feedback serve if you cannot rely on it to tell a prospective buyer about the integrity of a seller?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 09:27:20 pm
content: Maybe it really did originally ship from the USA.... straight to Hong Kong... then back to you! Bet you didn't' think of that did you!

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2014, 10:26:57 pm
content: I recently needed some modules and needed them quickly. I specifically chose an Australian seller to avoid the sometimes long delays associated with stuff from China.I suspect they were bullshitting but the stuff arrived within the week so I gave them positive feedback.The way I see it is if they have a means by which they can get stuff to you quickly, simply stating so on fleabay wont convince many buyers so in this case the white lie seemed justified

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 01:08:27 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on July 26, 2014, 07:12:27 amYea, but still. Just contact the seller and work it out, you know like a normal human being.

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 05:16:04 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on July 26, 2014, 07:12:27 amIndeed. I once bought a "solar" calculator on evilbay for only a few bucks only to discover (5 minutes after I got it, I opened it up) that the "solar panel" was actually printed card, no metal, no silicon, no wires, but a very deliberate and well done fake. And a button cell to actually run the calculator.The Chinese vendor very quickly provided a full refund (maybe hoping I'd just go away), but I kept hassling the vendor to change the description to reflect the truth. He never did, so one day before the time was up, he got a very descriptive negative feedback and one star ratings where it mattered. But as he was one of the big volume sellers, it probably just got lost in the noise.I ended up getting a real solar calculator for less, still on ebay, but from a local seller.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 09:00:05 am
content: I had it that stuff from Hong Kong arrived faster than from Europe.If the part arrives fast and good, I would give positive feedback but write in the feedback the problem.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 09:15:34 am
content: Quote from: iRad on July 26, 2014, 10:36:20 amWhy would opening a Paypal claim be a last resort only? After opening a claim there is a 30 or 40 day grace period to work things out. I have opened a claim several times because something took too long to arrive and got refunded several times. I notified the seller I'm about to open a claim because the item still hasn't arrived. Just show you are serious to a seller. Some bad sellers try to postpone to let the Paypal coverage period expire so they don't have to refund. Don't go along with that.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 11:16:03 am
content: Paypal claim is totally different then leaving negative feedback.

author: iRad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 11:20:07 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 27, 2014, 09:15:34 amWhy? For one thing it causes harm to a seller that may not deserve your overreaction. eBay rates all sellers, and open claims are one criteria (even when settled amicably) that can raise the fees that eBay charges a seller. That in turn costs buyers more in the long run, but hurts honest sellers that are willing to help when you just ask for the help.If you are quick to open a claim because something is taking a long time to reach you, that is not the seller's fault in most cases.It's true that you need to keep on top of your time period to open a case, but if you have still not received an item, you usually have plenty of time to work things out.Never let your time to open a case expire, as then you loose all rights. And if a seller has not assured you that all is well by then, they deserve the open case against them.BTW: eBay will look at communications between you and the seller. These communications are very important in any determination of a settlement, and can override eBay policy and any policy listed by the seller in the listing when eBay makes a final determination. Get the seller to promise you in writing what they are willing to do to help, and then make sure they follow up on their promise or open a claim.Even if an item is lost, damaged, or received in a not-as-described condition, reputable sellers will take care of you without a need to open a claim. If they don't, they deserve the open claim against them.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 11:21:27 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on July 27, 2014, 09:00:05 amBut since you live in Germany, you wouldn't pay import duty on an item sold within the EU. If an ebay seller lied about their location it could lead to higher than expected costs on your end.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 11:32:23 am
content: Quote from: iRad on July 27, 2014, 11:20:07 amIt's not an overreaction. To open a case is the reasonable thing to do. It minimises the amount of time it takes for you to get your money back so you can buy from a seller who doesn't have "bad luck".

author: iRad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 12:16:34 pm
content: Quote from: bwat on July 27, 2014, 11:32:23 amSuch thinking flies in the face of being "reasonable", and could be considered selfish. Opening a case without real meritmayget one's cash back in their hands a bit quicker, but it costs the seller and eventually everyone else unnecessarily. Being too quick to open a case only serves to put more money in the pockets of eBay, causing higher fees sellers then have to pay. Even if a seller resolves claims quickly and with full satisfaction to the buyer, eBay counts them against the seller. We risk harm to the entire community of sellersandbuyers by unnecessary shortsightedness.Again, I'm not saying you should never open claims against a seller, but ONLY when they deserve such action.Your FEEDBACK serves to warn the community of any serious problems with a seller, and is an all together different matter.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 12:22:24 pm
content: I think if they lied to you then negative feedback.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 12:28:45 pm
content: Quote from: iRad on July 27, 2014, 12:16:34 pmIt is the result of quite sound reasoning, hence the action of a reasonable buyer. As a buyer I don't care why the seller can't get their act together when it comes to my money.Quote from: iRad on July 27, 2014, 12:16:34 pmSellers in the market place who know how to perform a transaction wont be paying these extra costs and will be able to offer cheaper reserve, or, buy it now prices. It seems that ebay is trying to weed out the less than stellar sellers.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 02:20:36 pm
content: Hi,I contacted the seller and asked them to explain why the item was shipped from Hong Kong. They responded with:Dear Xxxx,Sorry, but they were in stock in our U.S. warehouse in NY/NJ. ; it is currently out of stock though. All items are shipped from our Hong Kong warehouse now. There was "U.S. Shipping" in the title but recently removed since they are not shipping from NY anymore.Again, we are very sorry for the confusion.I have gone back to them to and asked them to modify their listing so that it clear that the item is shipped from Hong Kong, like most of their other items.If they change their listing I will leave positive feedback, but indicate the item was shipped from Hong Kong.I will wait to see how long the item takes to arrive before deciding to leave negative or neutral feedback if they do not change their listing.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 02:50:14 pm
content: JD,I feel there need to be a bit of latitude in both directions, I usually buy local because I need quick delivery. If there is no other local stockist on Ebay then more latitude should be given as you would have had to purchase from OS anyway. But if another store advertises local delivery for the same product then I would give very little latitude in this respect.For the later I would give negative feedback, whereas the earlier would be either no feedback or neutral.Hope it goes well in the long term.MW

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 03:51:12 pm
content: Quote from: bwat on July 27, 2014, 12:28:45 pmThat isn't quite true. Ebay final value fees vary depending on performance. If someone opens a case to ask where the power button is on a Japanese scope with a poor front panel layout, that still counts against me.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 04:06:15 pm
content: Most buyers think that opening an eBay case is not a big deal and is just the normal thing to do in order to protect their rights, and will not harm the seller if things get worked out in the end. What they don't know is that by simply opening a case they have already affected the buyer's account performance rating negatively, regardless of whether the case eventually gets resolved or not by the seller (unresolved cases create further negative effect of course). Speaking as a seller I always encourage buyers to contact sellers first through messaging, before opening any case.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 04:45:20 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 27, 2014, 04:06:15 pmBuyers don't know this, nor should they be expected to.I agree that contacting the seller should be the first port of call, but with the buyer clearly asking if the delivery time frame will be effected and also in the event of a faulty return etc then where would it be returned to. The seller needs to be making very clear statements and working hard to please the buyer.............if not then IMO it's at least neutral feedback with a good message written for others to see.Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on July 27, 2014, 02:20:36 pmI don't believe this...........but if it were true, then the seller should have offered a refund or compensation immediately the items was purchased.....as well as changing the ad.If sellers aren't forced to toe the line ALWAYS then Ebay will just get overrun with all sorts of scams and lies.Ian.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 05:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on July 27, 2014, 04:45:20 pmJust to be clear, I wasn't trying to defend the seller in this particular case. He is clearly wrong and should have corrected the mistake immediately if it was indeed an honest one.I was only trying to make a general statement as an honest eBay seller, and to emphasize the importance of communication before opening a case.

author: sunnyhighway
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 07:35:05 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 27, 2014, 04:06:15 pmThe nice thing is that all sellers on Ebay have to deal with this phenomena.Just like the fact that all buyers have no protection after 40 days. All that's left is voting with their feet and/or leave a bitter comment and low score.The rules are set and let the economics game commence.Apparently this Ebay formula works, otherwise there wouldn't be that many sellers and buyers on Ebay as we see today.If this does not work for the seller, then it's fair to say that his businessmodel does not suit the marketplace.Same goes for the buyer, if he is not willing to take some additional risk in order to get something for the lowest price, just buy from a local store with a known reputation where you can see and feel the product before you buy.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 07:38:08 pm
content: QuoteYou obviously are entitled to your believes but I don't find the seller's explanation so unbelievable. The seller extracts a premium by shipping from a US warehouse and potentially lowering his shipping costs, wholesale container shipping vs. retail postal office shipping, for example.I have no way of telling if he was telling the truth but it isn't that difficult to see that he could be telling the truth.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 07:48:44 pm
content: Quote from: sunnyhighway on July 27, 2014, 07:35:05 pmThat is not true. After opening a case there is a grace period. The cases I have opened where for items not arriving in time. In some cases the seller charged air mail but used boat mail. In other cases it just took long or the they didn't send the item. In those cases the time for leaving feedback was already gone.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 07:53:04 pm
content: Quote from: sunnyhighway on July 27, 2014, 07:35:05 pmBuyers now have 180 days to open a case.i don't mind the buyers having plenty of rights, it gives them confidence that if they spend money on ebay then they will get good service.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 08:27:45 pm
content: I'd be quite annoyed if a stated EU location ended up comming from outside EU.That'll cost me 25% extra in VAT (also for the shipping cost) , and a VAT handling fee of another $25./Bingo

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2014, 10:39:34 am
content: Hi,A quick update.The seller has ended the original listing, and replaced the listing with a new one that clearly shows that the item is located in Hong Kong.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Newest-Update-V3-6-Creator-C110-BMW-Code-Reader-Free-Shipping-/111420477695?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item19f12d90ffIn addition he has only one listing that shows that the item is in the USA. In this listing there is one unit left.I feel that negative feedback isn't necessary now. The purpose would be have been to warn other potential customers about the issue.Some interesting comments from the group.A few years ago I was actively selling some Ham Radio Service manual on eBay. I had one customer open a dispute with eBay about a week after the auction ended. The buyer told me that he had opened four disputes that month. The manual arrived after a couple of days later.I had one manual returned by Italian Customs, because the description 'Document' was not precise enough. The return was by surface mail. The manual was returned 3 months after being shipped.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B