Renesas NEC programmer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 06:49:50 pm
content: Hi all friends,I am searching for an affordable NEC programmers to use for repair work... to copy the software from one working chip to other not working chips as I have done with ATMEGA using ArduinoISP and usbasp.The boards are for washing machines not cars. I have seen programmers intended for automobile industry but I want to use it like usbasp not for ready modules.I've seen this one too:http://www.etlweb.com/?ref=prod_prog_upd78<< don't know if it helps or not as I have 0 experience with these MCUs.The chips I am interested in are:D78012CW 016D78F0515AI want an affordable programmer like 50$ or something around it.Note: I am also searching for MC908QC16CDZE if someone can help.Thank you very much for your help in advance!

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2015, 11:59:15 pm
content: those chips will most likely be read protected

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 04:37:54 am
content: The uPD78012CW has mask ROM so it cannot be programmed, and probably can't be read either.The uPD78F0515A has Flash ROM, but any found in commercial products will almost certainly be read protected.Apart from automotive programmers, I don't know of any cheap commercial solutions. However the Flash programming protocol is well documented (http://documentation.renesas.com/doc/DocumentServer/U18291EU1V0AN00.pdf) so DIY could be an option. Here is one example that is supposed to work with 78k0 series chips,http://www.creasol.it/it/equipment/nec-78k/0-and-78k/0s-parallel-programmerUnless you can find a way to unlock a good chip to copy the firmware from, there's no point looking for a programmer. I have developed a method of extracting code from read protected 78k0S chips which may work on the Kx2. However it requires overwriting the boot code on the original chip, which is not good if it doesn't work!

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2015, 02:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on March 06, 2015, 04:37:54 amLooking through thedatasheetit appears this one has the exact opposite type of protection - you canwrite-protect the flash (even permanently), but there is no read protection.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2015, 02:45:01 am
content: Quote from: amyk on March 06, 2015, 02:30:49 pmWhile there is no specific 'read protect' function, the chip is still effectively read protected because there is no 'read' function! You may be able to 'read' a block by first getting the checksum, re-writing the first location with 0, getting the new block checksum and then calculating the difference (repeat until all locations have been read). However this won't work if the block is write protected.My technique is faster and can read write-protected blocks. I overwrite the reset vector with zeros, then add a jump to my own code which is written into a blank area (first half of the boot block usually has some space). My code then reads the ROM internally and dumps it out the serial port. If the boot block is write protected then the same technique can be applied elsewhere in the code (just have to let the program execute until reaches your code) but if the entire chip is write protected then you are screwed.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 06:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on March 06, 2015, 04:37:54 amthe link you provided has only schematic and stuff like that, I wanted to buy a finished one because it is hard to get all the parts for me at least now.And, it is "Parallel programmer" so I guess no ICSP?? I want the ICSP really, can't do anything without it.So, what do you suggest?If I can read the thing as this programmer claims, and can't write... what to do? If I can write on blank chips (say from Aliexpress) then I guess it is a solution.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 07:00:02 pm
content: how about this one:http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/QB-MINI2-EA/972-1006-ND/2361764??anyone tried it?

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2015, 09:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on March 11, 2015, 07:00:02 pmI have used NEC's programmer software with my own programmer and it worked well, though I haven't tried on-chip debugging (I prefer to use the simulator).MiniCube2 is the official programmer/on-chip debugger for 78K0 chips, so it should work perfectly with the 78F0515.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 04:36:48 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on March 11, 2015, 09:36:59 pmIs your programmer available for buying online? I need an ISP one.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2015, 07:44:35 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on March 23, 2015, 04:36:48 pmAll my projects are DIY and open source, so anybody can build them. My programmer connects to the serial port and is ISP, but it only does 78k0S which is no good to you.If you want a 'finished' programmer for 78K0 etc. then buy the Minicube. If that is not possible and you can't purchase the components to build a programmer then you might be able to do it with parts scavenged from old electronic devices.BTW I found some more information about programmers on the Renesas website athttp://www.renesas.eu/products/mpumcu/78k/78k0kx/78k0kx2/soft_tools_index.jsp. In the category "Flash Programming Tools" is the application software for the Renesas Flash Programmer, and the docs include a 'sample circuit' showing how to make a simple serial port programmer that works with it.

author: albaben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 02:16:52 pm
content: I tried today una D78F0515A This MCU (Gorenje waching machine). I have a programmer elnec beeprog2c. This is not able to read the 78K0 family. Only the possibility of verification and programming. so I've errase an MCU, and then programing but with a (file) blank. (Because I do not have a file to this data for this processor.there is someone ready firmware for this MCU?

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 05:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: albaben on January 07, 2017, 02:16:52 pmYou seem better than me as I don't have such pricey tools to begin with, I was asking about which tool should I use. It is regretful to not be able to copy the software... burning it on the chip is easy, but getting it is the challenge.

author: albaben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2017, 10:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on January 07, 2017, 05:16:52 pmyou have not given any solution so far? where are concentrated, in which the programmer? Have you any ideas?

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 01:16:44 am
content: No, I don't have any solution. People here told me that such MCUs have masked ROM which is impossible to read.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 04:24:28 pm
content: Nothing is impossible, but a physical mask ROM extraction won't be cheap...

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 07:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 08, 2017, 04:24:28 pmhow much?

author: albaben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2017, 09:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on January 08, 2017, 07:07:46 pmI make the same question: how much?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2017, 04:48:54 am
content: It usually starts at few hundred $ and goes up to several k$ depending on exact model/difficulty. Look for companies offering "MCU break" or similar services.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2017, 07:53:07 am
content: too much for a washing machine, thats for surehere is one dude doing this type of stuff (reading out protected chips):http://caps0ff.blogspot.com

author: hellboy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 17, 2024, 10:08:16 am
content: What kind of method aroused curiosity

author: Mo elbaz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2024, 07:57:08 am
content: How can I contact you?