APC surge protector recall (all models before 2003) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: billclay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 03:08:46 am
content: It seems like APC (now Schneider Electric) has recalled15 millionsurge protectors. I have a bunch of these around home and at work.When I last took one apart, the build quality looked good. The problem they state is the "devices can overheat under abnormal electrical conditions".http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2014/Schneider-Electric-Recalls-APC-Surge-ProtectorsHere is one of the melting/fire reports:http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1222205

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 11:57:30 am
content: Quote from: billclay on October 10, 2013, 03:08:46 amThat sounds a bit less concerning than if they did that under normal conditions...

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 01:13:20 pm
content: I wonder if they neglected to include a thermal fuse to protect the MOVs?All MOVs have a limited lifetime energy absobtion capability. After they are spent they become more conductive until they basically go short circuit. A thermal fuse is normally used in series in order to cut them out of circuit when (not if, but when) they overheat. Often an LED will also be powered after this fuse, so that when the 'protect' LED goes out, you know the MOVs are done and it's time to replace the unit.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 04:38:15 pm
content: Many older SPD designs did not have thermal fuses in all segments of their protection. If you have an SPD older than 10 years old by any manufacturer, its better to take it out of service or remove the SPD circuits and use the SPD as a simple extension cord or multiple input jack. Burning MOV are a fire hazard and very cheap SPD only had MOV without fuse protection.http://www.sfowler.com/investigations/Surge%20Protectors.htm

author: billclay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 04:05:32 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on October 11, 2013, 04:38:15 pmOn that web site that you reference, they state:"In certain conditions like a 'floating neutral', they can become over heated and catch fire."I wonder if this is what APC meant by "abnormal conditions". I've experienced this condition before, and I'll bet that it happens more oftenthen you might suspect. I may have to sacrifice one and put it under load under these conditions and see how it reacts.In the videos they seem to be putting MOVs under a over-voltage condition and they melt and catch fire. I suspect this would happenfor any component if you took it past it's rated limit.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 06:11:41 pm
content: Yes, when neutral floats in US style home wiring, the 2 branches of 110V can get connected in series by appliances, see the link, so > 110V can be across some devices and its SPD, depending on their loads it can blow the SPD [ or the load], seeing the theory can save you from using a sacrificial SPD. See here:http://www.slideshare.net/guest1e331cf/lost-neutralSquare boxes are the DMM or power meter examining portions of the branch circuit. For simplicity, the AC is represented as DC and uses only ohms law.MOV overloaded are generally quite violent, its worse the higher its joule rating; it converts all that potential energy its absorbing into kinetic. Since the last decade, you can get them premade with thermal fuse in series that blows when the heat generated by the burning MOV activates them. This cuts off power sooner to the MOV to reduce the reaction.BTW, destructive testing of MOVs is a good use of the EC Apparat electrophoretic power supplies [ that Dave reviewed recently] as it can easily provides voltages to blow MOVs.Quote from: billclay on October 14, 2013, 04:05:32 pm

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 07:04:49 pm
content: Hi,I have a bunch of the recalled surge protector. So I have taken a few photographs inside & out.Outside Top:Serial Number, this appears to be 1999 manufacture:Here is the input wiring. From the wall plug the hot wire goes through a switch, circuit breaker, HRC fuse and thermal fuse before going to the outlets.Here is a picture of the board. The three MOVs are arranged in a 'Y' The center point of the Y is connected to ground through a thermal fuse. The capacitor is 'X2'Does anybody see any really bad things ?Jay_Diddy_B

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 07:47:59 pm
content: I have a details post in the archives with photos of a blown APC PER7 that burned while plugged in; it blew from an actual over-voltage event while I was in a Pacific island from their erratic wall power. It did not burn violently but the in-line fuse blew to prevent the reaction from becoming more violent, it was old enough to be among those recalled.The new designs use thermal fuses for faster response; you can see them coupled tightly using shrink tubing; PCB cutouts to prevent arc over. APC honored the warranty for the PER7 which was purchased somewhere in the 1990s and shipped me a new one before I shipped the damaged one back.The new design:Detailed discussion with photos:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/surge-protectors-scams-and-saints/msg20504/#msg20504

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 09:37:09 pm
content: Hi,The picture of the new one is very handy. I will check one that I have that is just outside the recallI will be sending my request for new ones shortly.( I hate to think what is in some no-name surge protectors)Thanks again !!Jay_Diddy_B

author: madsci
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 07:31:46 am
content: Good pics! The thermal fuse is all but useless on the early APC design. The newer units, as shown in pictures, have the thermal fuse located in much closer proximity to the MOV. The result is the fuse blows well before any fires start.I've seen a PER7 with significant internal damage due to lightning. The HRC fuse exploded and the case had deformed. The connected PC was undamaged, the fax machine on the same strip was damaged. (the PC had an extra MOV and significant filtering inside the PSU...Seasonic knew what they were doing!)A floating neutral is nearly a worst case scenario...a sustained overvoltage with significant current. In this case the SPD may not be the only item on fire but the current may not rise enough to blow the HRC fuse or trip the circuit breaker.The worst case would be the primary conductor contacting the secondary conductors at the utility transformer....nothing survives that. Fortunately such cable breaks that allow this to occur are very rare.

author: tsmith35
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 02:27:23 pm
content: Here's the link to the official APC recall page:http://recall.apc.com/enIt includes information on how to identify the affected surge protectors and a link to a page where you can get a replacement surge protector from APC.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 04:24:48 pm
content: Hi Group,Has anybody been the recall process? I just submitted my serial numbers today. I had 7 of the recalled surge protectors.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 06:36:55 pm
content: Yes, I have. Its slow but they are true to their word, about 12 weeks for processing; they do check serial numbers.They sent me this model as replacement:http://www.amazon.com/APC-Essential-SurgeArrest-7-outlet/dp/B00009KYCN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1390070105&sr=8-2&keywords=apc+surge+protectorInstead of discarding the recalled SPD, I removed the surge elements and turned the unit into a power strip.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 06:51:28 pm
content: Hi,Thank you for the reply. I have 7 of the recalled surge protectors. They did ask for an image of the serial numbers. I sent all my serial numbers in. If any get rejected I will do a teardown to see if the contain the defect.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: electron_misfire
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2014, 09:45:59 am
content: You'd think they'd have thought of something as simple as that.The design team probably didn't even think of this.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2014, 03:16:57 pm
content: If your serial numbers meet their criteria there is no reason for them to be rejected, as it has the defective design and they are liable for it.What I find good about the APC recall, and a problem for them, is they don't want the old units back, so you can repair or mod them if you like.If you are still using these SPD you should disconnect the SPD PCB and use it only as a powerstrip as the instructions are to take recalled units of out of service, immediately.Quote from: Jay_Diddy_B on January 18, 2014, 06:51:28 pm

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2014, 04:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on January 19, 2014, 03:16:57 pmLooks like a cost reduction to me, they otherwise had to pay for shipping and disposal of the old productsWhat are the temperature fuses rated for? 200 deg C or more/less?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2014, 05:29:07 pm
content: Most thermal fuses I see are rated for 135C in non heater applications, in a heater they typically are 180C for things like fans while stoves often use a 210C unit to protect the wiring near the thermoswitches. In a plug unit I would use anything from 85C to 135C, and couple it to the VDR unit to decrease the response time. Lower temp units tend to trip faster.

author: envoid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 22, 2014, 08:49:49 pm
content: I had just gone through the recall. Took about three weeks total for me. Only had three units, though.I'm a hobbyist at best with electronics and EE stuff so please forgive my inane question: Would a fix be to just get the thermal fuse closer to the MOVs? I can easily remove the SPD PCB but would be nice to have some sort of protection on it still, even if their warranty wasn't there.thank you!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 01:24:51 pm
content: IIRC the general answer is no, but it would improve performance if you did so, but it still has a flaw. If it were possible, I would have done it too!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/suggestions/surge-protectors-scams-and-saints/msg20504/#msg20504If you couple the Line thermal fuse to the MOV with shrink tubing so it will easily blow in a fault, then not only will the Green LED be dead, the SPD will be dead too, this is preferred, to fail safe. A fault can occur so the Green LED is OFF yet the SPD works if only the L-N MOV fuse blows.But if the L-G, or N-G fuses blow, the RED FAULT LED will turn ON, but the SPD still works. It needs to otherwise nothing will power the LEDsIMHO if a fault occurred so any fuse blows, thewholeSPD should be disabled, not simply turn ON an LED, that is better to fail safe because if a LG or NG fault occured long enough to blow a fuse, there is still something terribly wrong somewhere that is abnormal and should be fixed.I think they gave me a new model because the PER7 or NET7 style is being retired, being its associated with this recall. Even the new design I have in the existing PER7 has flaw I mention.Quote from: envoid on January 22, 2014, 08:49:49 pm

author: envoid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 03:09:42 am
content: Thanks, Saturation! That explains a lot and I see what you mean about it lighting up the LED but leaves the SPD effectively on still. Also read you're other thread about the SPD that caught that surge for ya. Good reading!After initially reading your reply I nosed around the board of the recalled one and noticed there's some pads that allow moving the L-G and N-G thermal fuse to mostly between the two ground MOVs, but to move the Line fuse would require extending the posts for both the MOV and fuse and even then only maybe getting close.As for the replacement models, I actually got one that looked like the old grey partial brick. But i also got a black strip to replace one of them as well. The Net8 was basically the same but a little smaller i think?Thanks again for the info!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2014, 05:02:09 pm
content: The replacement model, P7, is better made. Being snowed in, had time to tear it down before put to use.When the 2 halves of the unit are closed, the surge circuits are encased in its own isolated box. This prevents conductive debris from entering into the power rails of the SPD.You can see the same isolation box form for the RJ11 protection.The case screws and mounting holes are also isolated. This prevents any conductive debris from touching them, which is direct path to the outside and potentially to the user.PCB is better designed, and has newer safety features, note many of these features are in the PV11 series, aka professional series. The PCB not just isolated in a box, but the MOV are now sandwiched between the PCB and a fire retardant material as its roof.Tracing the PCB, here's what the protection does. The L-N MOV has its own shrink wrap and fuse, if it blows it kills LINE. The L-G and N-G MOV are shrink wrapped together and if they blow their fuse, it kills the GROUND line. This causes the GROUND FAULT LED to light up, but the unit should still work. A third fuse on the right, I called FAIL SAFE fuse is wired to LINE, and will blow if enough heat is transferred to it from any MOV blowing.Assembly quality and construction is first rate. A few odd design elements, the sockets have safety protection covers that are free standing and not built into the unit. RJ11 cable are provided [ if you still use an old style phone]. Unique to APC surge protectors is all I've seen come with testing certificates, even for this $9 item. It tells you what was checked and who checked it, DOM ~ 12/13 ~ 2AM [ I presume Philippine time, that means the factory works 24 hours?]Finally the specs.NB: UL 1449 3rd Edition for SPD use a redefine test protocol for surges. So you'll see the voltage protection rating are higher than previous SPDs of same make. They are essentially the same.These units would be perfect if they always kill the LINE fuse should any MOV blow, that would truly be fail safe. From their PCB I would simply shrink wrap all the MOV and the FAIL SAFE fuse together into one unit. But as it is, any failure will notify the user, but you must check the Ground Fault LED now and then.

author: tsmith35
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 01:05:21 am
content: Excellent write-up and images! Thanks for sharing. Looks like APC has learned a lot since they started selling power strips.As for 24/7 operation, every plant I've worked in for the past 20+ years has worked that schedule. It's not unusual for engineers to be called at 2am when something breaks...

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 01:28:38 am
content: I just received my replacement. They initially said it would not arrive until April. I received mine on Feb 11.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2014, 11:56:46 am
content: You're welcome all.If any of you have time, I'd like to see and compare other surge protectors out there. Many I've torn down have been iffy, even among the big brands. I returned them over the years, and didn't take photos at the time.These are APCs main competitors, in order of reputation for quality:Tripp LitePhillipsBelkin

author: envoid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 12, 2014, 06:34:57 pm
content: Saturation, thanks for that great break down! I have a 'same design' P7 replacement from the recall I should pull apart. I'm curious how they have the same case. Same for the P8 though oddly the P8 'felt' different to me so maybe they redesigned the innards.Since I was laid off recently I have been able to get to some bench projects and while I was there I thought I'd try to 'refit' the old APC P7, more to see if I could do it. Welcome anyone's thoughts on it. Basically I moved the LN MOV against the line thermal fuse and moved the fuse for NG and LG in between them.PS, I have an old Belkin that once I pried apart (was sonically welded) I had a hard time using it. Still sitting on my floor in the basement. Not pretty. I'll pull it apart and grab some pics.