My e-cig died. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 05:36:54 pm
content: So my e-cig died few days ago. I was curious why. Decided to open it and test the batteries. Everything seemd fine - they are just discharged. I' ve noticed something odd. On one of them the polarity was reversed. I checked it and my digital multimeter showed that the "-" is not a minus. After plugging it to my power supply and charging it for a while it died. Any ideas what happend? I've googled where are those batteries from but I found only chinese sites, so no help. The second one was alright and after a few minutes of charging the voltage increased.Ps. They are 3,7V 2400mAh batteries.

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 05:40:52 pm
content: Hi,There are two batteries configuration in e-cigs. Parallel and in series, so it could be in series and the resulting voltage will be 7-8 volts for 2 cells or 11-12 for 3.And, of course, if a battery is charged in reverse polarity - minimum of what would happen - it will die.

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 05:44:12 pm
content: I totally get that. At this point I care more about why there was a different polarity then written on the battery than about it dying. I' ve checked sevral times and It was written in the wrong way - or I thought so (because the battery died).

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 05:48:17 pm
content: As far as I know - it could happen - totally discharged battery could change its polarity. But it is more likely it was labeled wrong in the factory. I've repaired some several hundreds of e-cigs, but have never ever seen either reversed polarity or wrongly marked cells.

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 05:52:11 pm
content: Well I don't think there was a human error but you know - I could be wrong :p. If it was labeled wrong in the factory it woulnd't have died. I plugged the second battery the same way and its working. Maybe it really was reversed polarity thanks to descharged battery.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 06:32:53 pm
content: Quote from: Ohgodwhy on May 09, 2018, 05:36:54 pmyeah i got an idea... because it died.https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316280-Reversed-polarity-18650-cell

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 06:44:30 pm
content: e-cig died.... means you should stop smoking.

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 06:59:42 pm
content: Thanks for the advive. Right now Im thinking about making one by myself. It will be a cool project. I guess Ill draw a curcuit and ask you guys if its going to work.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 07:39:37 pm
content: It died for you. Take the hint.But, no. Instead you want to increase the danger by holding a home built short-circuited lithium ion battery close to your face.

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 07:58:26 pm
content: Im kinda sad that you thought of me that badly. I was talking about making a new e-cig with new batteries. I cant judge you - lots of stupid people in the internet.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:06:56 pm
content: Quote from: Ohgodwhy on May 09, 2018, 07:58:26 pmAn "e-cig" is a short-circuited lithium ion battery by design (even with new batteries). If you don't understand that you should not attempt to build one.Quote from: Ohgodwhy on May 09, 2018, 07:58:26 pmNot stupid enough to use and/or built e-sigs...

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:11:22 pm
content: It's the same as to ride a 4-wheeled combustible filled tank which is ignited by a spark.

author: Ohgodwhy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 08:36:39 pm
content: By the definition it isn't. Short circuit is an "is an electrical circuit that allows a current to travel along an unintended path". But what do I know. Anyway thanks for the advice.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2018, 11:44:08 pm
content: Quote from: Ohgodwhy on May 09, 2018, 07:58:26 pmyeah those people wouldnt understand how we tried to get rid of smoking, instead we vaping. smoke and vape are 2 very different thing. but you cant judge all the advices as bad, such as diy ing an e-cig that will not look nice for sure. are you going to vape on a tank with dangling wires connected to a lion battery wrapped by rubber band? i dont think so. buy the ready made one, the cheapest is mechanical mod with lock pin avoiding short circuit in your pocket resulting burnt or even exploded thigh. and buy quality battery not one hung low that can create magic smoke out of nothing.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 12:05:20 am
content: Not sure why people felt the need to be dicks to someone asking kindly for advice.Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 09, 2018, 11:44:08 pmBuilding your own circuit is good for learning but as you say, not realistic to put in a pocket and carry around. But there are varying levels of DIY, you can buy the battery, regulator, shell, heater, etc. all as separate modules if desired:https://www.fasttech.com/category/3099/e-cigarettes

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 03:45:22 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 10, 2018, 12:05:20 ambetter be off building constant current load or adjustable SMPS, they are about the same topology and cost hundreds if not thousands ready made. an adjustable e-cig mod with mcu and small lcd is like what? $30? i've dismantled mine... not for the faint heart ed, at that cost...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 09:12:45 am
content: A good eCig, like an Inokin Coolfire provides:Constant voltage, boosted as high as 30V.Constant Wattage, boosted as high as 40W (some vape mods get as high as 100W)Auto-timeout at 10 seconds to prevent overheating in your pocket if you accidentally press the button.Everything is controlled via an oLED screen and three buttons.It also provides USB charging and "pass through vaping", so you can still vape while it's charging.Constant voltage works by the resistance of the coil and ohms law as to what you get. I prefer using constant wattage. I don't sub-ohm vape, so I'm working on somewhere between 7 and 10 Watts.There are however reports from some coil vendors that Innokin products have a tendency to spike current before they recover to regulated amount, but I found it was only those manufacturers coils that burnt, so I don't really believe them. I could put my Coolfire through a 2 Ohm resistor and scope it I suppose.Making your own of similar quality in a small form factor would not be easy to say the least, you need a boost circuit, an 18650 power path charger, a current limiter, a constant voltage limiter, a wattage calculated current limiter, oLED screen and MCU, timeout override circuit etc. In the Coolfire the completely board including oLED is 1cm x 5cm double side populated.

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 11:03:03 am
content: I can even elaborate a bit on the subject. There are mods for 1 to 4 cells, 50 to 300W. Almost all of them are, basically, boost converters consisting of 1 or 2 half bridge mosfet drivers and 2 to 5 mosfets (80-150A rated). All cell replaceable mods do have at least reverse polarity protection (either p-channel or n-channel mosfet), overheating protection (thermoresistor or even two) and some of them even have a thermocouple placed near a battery.Charging circuits utilize special ics starting with TP4056 and up to BQ76925 (which is quite a sophitsticated one).

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 12:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on May 09, 2018, 08:11:22 pmIt's quite literally not the same.

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 12:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on May 10, 2018, 12:21:04 pmOk. I can rephrase - potentially dangerous device equipped with safety measures for everyday use. How close it is to any other device out there is a matter of taste really.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 12:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on May 10, 2018, 12:21:04 pmCorrect. A better analogue would be standing in a nearly contained box while running hot water over yourself and inhaling the vapour. Aka, taking a shower.Some people just don't understand the simple difference between smoke and vapor.Smoke is the result of combusting material, usually carbon which generates many thousands of chemicals, a lot of which are carcogenic.Vapor is the gaseous form of a liquid or more accurately the droplets floating in air form , such as steam.If you cool and condense smoke you get tar, a sticky concoction of horrid chemicals.if you cool and condense vapor you get the original liquid you started with minus an volatiles which didn't recondense.The similarities are... "It produces a whitish cloud" and nothing more.

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 01:00:46 pm
content: I have a feeling you got me wrong. I was opposing to someone that said it is stupid to hold shorted battery close to your face, which is a vape device...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 01:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on May 10, 2018, 12:50:50 pmOn battery safety there are any number of battery power devices which consume quite a lot power from lithium that could go bang if used incorrectly. Electric cars are a large scale example.However I do wish "sub ohm" vapours would catch themselves on mostly because they are inconsiderate tw@s who seem determined to get vaping banned for the rest of us while blowing overly/stupidly large clouds of vapor over everyone in the street thinking it's cool.They are also the ones getting a hard on for more and more watts and happily holding an 18650 undergoing a 100W load an inch from their face.... They spend £40 on a single 18650 which has a high current rating, then buy 4 of them so they can power their idiotic sub ohm coil..</rant>

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 01:04:58 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on May 10, 2018, 01:00:59 pmBeing a bit more specific would omit many questionsI vape for like 4-5 years and believe it is much more safer than a regular cig, but there is always that stupid kid that did never listen in school..

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 01:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on May 10, 2018, 01:04:58 pmSo I vape. I use multi-ohm coils at 8-10W. Sub-ohm'ers use coils which will not fire properly under 20-30W. Their justification is it produces more vapor and thus more flavour. I vape with a nicotine concentration of around 18mg/ml, so about 0.018% nicotine. A sub-ohm'er would probably turn purple and splutter at those levels, so they run at 0.004% nicotine and generate about 10 times more vapour.... which they produce in clouds which then pisses people off, get vapers a bad name and ultimately will get it banned in public and/or all other places!The stupid kid at school should have been allowed to play in the traffic as a child and they wouldn't be a problem any more. I am absolutely tired of protecting and pampering to idiots and having the rest of the sensible world banned from doing things that stupid people might hurt themselves with.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 02:59:55 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on May 10, 2018, 01:13:54 pmi use single sub ohm (0.5 ohm) coil at 15 - 30W no problem. but we do vape considerately around people as they tend to consider it as normal smoking (perceptually). yes those stupid kids with their mega cloud but naturally they will go extinct as they need to reconsider their purpose in life. they will not get that long, the cost alone can get exponential for these show off, thats for good.for those safety analysts who want to compare vape vs automobile risk... compared with a burnt thigh, we can have a burnt station... ymmv...

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 05:26:51 pm
content: Well, let's see. Sitting in the car and basically filling up unattended and, most likely, still running the engine. I see this so often as well as people walking off into the store while filling, sometimes with the engine running and no-one else in the car. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 07:22:58 pm
content: Over here the pumps don't latch on, you have to start and hold it.

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 08:42:36 pm
content: Hey! Ohgodwhy! Are you OK?https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/16/man-died-after-a-vape-pen-exploded-and-embedded-pieces-into-this-head-autopsy-says/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f9b4c2f83fef

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 09:19:57 pm
content: Told you.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 06:29:41 am
content: Another reason why sub ohm vaping will get it all banned.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 08:48:15 am
content: It looks as if a guy got his teeth shattered and neck broken by one back in 2015 too (near the end of the report). Ouch!https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44149281

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 10:13:50 am
content: Same guy.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:04:05 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on May 17, 2018, 08:48:15 amread to the end...QuoteAnother reason why sub ohm vaping should be ok, but modding it (or diy) is not ok.. if we judge from isolated incident, then all cars (or anything using gas) should be banned.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:08:59 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 17, 2018, 11:04:05 amModding or building your own as was suggested by the OP in reply #7.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 11:54:57 am
content: This is a bit of media using terms incorrectly.The term "Mod" referring to the battery portion of the eCig uses to be called "Mod" because they were home modified for higher output (amongst other things).However you can buy "Mods" today. The name has stuck, but it does not mean they are modified.I use a Ionnikin Coolfire IV which is technically called a "Mod" even though it has not been modified.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 12:26:49 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on May 10, 2018, 07:22:58 pmThey removed the latch pins in our pumps here years ago. I used to carry a bit of stainless welding rod to pop in the holes until I discovered the threaded part of most fuel caps are just the right size to pop in the handle and keep it filling.

author: BergRD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 01:12:11 pm
content: I've been vaping since the beginning.. Well since it's recent incarnation as the original 'vaporizer' was patented back in the 1800's early 1900's..I have vaped sub-ohm a better part of 8 years now but do it smartly. I don't do Vape Tricks nor 'Cloud Blowing' and I have never had an issue. I follow strict battery rules (maint, storage, charging, etc) as well build coils within spec of the amperage and chemistry of the batteries being used. It can work if you think ahead and work within the rules and boundaries of the devices, batteries and coils. "Most" people who have had issues have failed or ignored the rules.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 01:19:11 pm
content: Looking at the construction the Delrin insulator which brings the threaded conductor to the atomizer seems a weakspot to me. They should redesign it with a conductor cast in epoxy, with adjustment screws top and bottom (would make adjusting for the vaporizer more annoying though). No path for gas to force it's way to the atomizer without the insulator failing and a chunk of epoxy chemically bonded to the outer metal and the conductor (both threaded) will be much sturdier than the Delrin.It can still blow a chunk out of your hand as the bottom becomes the weakest link, but better than your face.