Is the Velleman PCS64i any good? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 05:44:24 pm
content: For around 50 USD, is this scope any useful for simple repair jobies on vintage computers, such as for instance Commodore 64? It requires an old computer with a parallel port, but that's no problem, I have plenty of those.https://www.velleman.eu/products/view/?id=338488&lang=en

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2024, 09:46:15 pm
content: Since it's not free, I would invest in a more modern and supported product. E.g.https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-HT6022BE20Mhz-Digital-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B009H4AYIIAnd for a little bit more you can get also 16 bit logic analyzer channels.https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-Analyzer/dp/B01M74UKKC

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 08:28:52 am
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 26, 2024, 05:44:24 pmWhat is the reason why you want a USB Scope?There are inexpensive standalone scopes that may be more practical for your purpose.e.g.https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005007393992391.htmlOr the DSO1511G:https://youtu.be/Uqrel5fQpK4There are also two-channel versions.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 08:40:34 am
content: another problem is ...

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22Literally none. I would take Siglent 1104 over this every day of the week, but I can't afford one. This is 50 USD, it's in my country so no import fees, no shipping and no tax. The one you linked to is inevitably going to be double the price for some questionable Chinesium. I just asked if the Velleman is any good.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: kripton203Why is this a 'problem'?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:44:31 pm
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 27, 2024, 12:38:37 pmyou won't be able to buy one it is discontinued. or may be a used one ? anyway I find this device not interesting compared to actual scopes.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:50:17 pm
content: It lists Windows 3.11, 95 and 98 as compatible for the software.That alone might be a no-go as there is a very good chance that the software cannot run on a modern computer.If you can even get the software, as it is not listed in the downloads section.

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 12:55:39 pm
content: I doubt anyone here can give you opinion on its performance and usability. Although being LPT based I'd guess waveform update rate aren't going to be great. Older entry level scope also often lacks more complex triggering option. Both not great if you want to chase intermittent event, but probably fine if you just want to look at the signal.Also, Hantek aren't exactly a no-name brand.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 01:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 27, 2024, 12:37:14 pmI don't really think so.VAT and shipping are already included in the price of 542kr.But it's your decision, of course.The Velleman would be too outdated for me personally.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 01:16:20 pm
content: QuoteHow many modern pcs have a proper full fat printer port on the back?

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 01:18:22 pm
content: I’m sure I got one of these some 20 years ago.Given it is developed when Windows 98 & Co were used, I would not be convinced it will work under a recent Windows version.Anyway, I threw it away.I do know Velleman pretty well (we used to buy quite a lot of their components), I even live close to their headquarters (2 km).

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 02:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: ArdWar on August 27, 2024, 12:55:39 pmThis is useful information, because really, I never owned a scope before and don't know much about them.Quote from: ArdWarNo, but the one recommended from Aliexpress is.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on August 27, 2024, 12:50:17 pmI already downloaded the software and the scope comes with an installation floppy anyway. And like I said in the OP, I have plenty of old computers and OS's laying around and this one would, in case I buy it, get hooked up to my Pentium MMX 233 with a 19" Compaq CRT.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22Think so. The customs in my country are incompetent bufoons and I have completely stopped using sites such as AliExpress. Last time I bought something outside of EU was a Nintendo part from Japan. On the customs declaration, the value of 2000 Yen was noted down as the value. The customs read this as USD and charged me a grand total of 700 USD to release the parcel. And you have zero say, they will not reevaluate before you pay. Never again. I also get taxed buying from AliExpress, and even though they say VAT is included, it actually isn't as they drop ship to the Netherlands and slap a new sticker on there for which my customs ignore the new address sticker and charge me full.So that scope would likely cost me a bit more than 800 SEK. I don't think that device is worth that money.Quote from: Aldo22In what way? This would only be used on old, vintage things. Surely it's good enough for that purpose? I ask because I actually don't know.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:14:52 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippyNone. But like I said in the OP, I have old computers for this purpose. Is no-one reading anymore?

author: Phil1977
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 27, 2024, 03:11:25 pmEven a FNIRSI 2C23T which sometimes is available for little over €60 will be much more convenient in use than a vintage PC ADC.If you get the Velleman for free and you have joy playing with old hardware, then feel free to go for it. I definitely would not spend any money on it. If you want to buy a scope to measure any kind of signal, then do yourself a favour and get something state-of-the-art. Also signals from vintage computers are much easier to analyse with modern equipment.Or why do you not take the Fleascope that was presented here in the forum not long ago?https://www.elecrow.com/flea-scopetm-usb-o-scope.html?srsltid=AfmBOorKMs97H9i6ypScR-XuUs2fFxtbpN0PjmbCAIz3Zh0spwk4MmVT

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 04:08:08 pm
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 27, 2024, 03:11:25 pmI said "personally" because I got rid of the last device with Win 95, parallel port, floppy disk and CRT some 20 years ago.I wouldn't even take the Velleman for free.I also believe that technology is advancing and at some point the cheapest "Chinesium" will be superior to the "great" old devices.You obviously see things differently. That's OK.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 04:57:36 pm
content: Quote from: Phil1977 on August 27, 2024, 03:29:49 pmThey'd have to put a lot of money on top before I'd touch a fnirsy.For the Velleman thing... Maybe you can get a second hand one for a small price.Hantek 6022 is (new) also around EUR60 from aliexpress. It is by no means a "good scope" but it's usable, and there is open source software (OpenHantek) for it. You can see it's internals on the Sigrok / Pulseview website (The BE version has a "logic analyzer" integrated.)Also, the 6022 has a Cypres Cy7C68013A, and this is a bit of a weird uC. It does not have any Flash / ROM. You're supposed to plug this thing in an USB port, and then it loads it's firmware via DFU. As a result, Sigrok & openhantek provide both the PC software and the "firmware" for the uC. (Sigrok uses SDCC with FX2LAFW. This Cypress thing has a 8051 core).Another alternative is an RP2040. You can buy a development board for the cost of lunch money, and there are (a few?) open source project(s) around it with scope functions. But those projects tend to be mostly software. Apparently there is very little interest to combine it with a half decent frontend or even input protection to turn it into a usable instrument.But anything below EUR150 or so will be mostly a toy. Can be nice to have fun with, but don't expect a real instrument. Owon USB scopes start around that price point, but I never looked into their capabilities.

author: vresiberba
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 06:09:55 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22Yes, but you didn't say why. Now you did, that was all I asked for.Quote from: Aldo22No. I know nothing about scopes, hence this post, so I couldn't be of any different opinion even if I wanted to. I just wanted to know how the Velleman is, that's all. Only one person has actually made some good points. The rest is just fluff. Like this reply.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 06:48:06 pm
content: Unfortunately, having downloaded and tried the S/W, you are probably more knowledgeable about this scope than anyone else here is - unless you can find somebody who has actually owned and used one. People can give general advice on low cost options of today, but what you are asking is much more specific.It looks better than most of Velleman's offerings that I have seen, but still very basic. With a maximum sample rate of 36Msps(MHz), the 13MHZ bandwidth spec is optimistic. You will be able to see a sine wave but you won't be able to tell it from a square wave until you get down to maybe 1/5th of that, but it depends how well it is implemented - I think most sampling and triggering will be happening in PC S/W rather than any sort of hardware assistance. [Edit: The inclusion of the vertical position knobs on the unit, rather than controlled in S/W is rather odd... ah, from the schematics, it's to manually keep the input within ADC input range]. It does have switchable AC/DC coupling which about the only advantage over an Hantek 6022 series USB scopes. It also has galvanic isolation from the PC which could save it from damage. Ignoring the old OS and PC requirements, apart from speed, nothing particularly stands out as a problem - other than actual usability, which can only be assessed by trying it.As I say, unless you can find someone who has actually used one, it is not really possible to answer your "... any good" question. Sale or return would be helpful. If it is second-hand (given that it must have been discontinued in WinXP days), maybe you can get the current owner to demonstrate it, and maybe negotiate a more competitive price.You might find one of the <$10 8 bit Saleae 24MHz USB Logic analyser clones a useful companion (on a modern PC) for debugging old 8 bit computers too.P.S. Having the schematics in the back of the manual is rather helpful for keeping it working.

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 10:29:44 pm
content: Quote from: vresiberba on August 26, 2024, 05:44:24 pmBy chance, I saw a review yesterday of a ZOYI ZT-703S - which is a combined handheld scope/dmm at 20 mins.The presenter repairs a c64 almost by accident with some simple probing - at 20mins.Price is comprable, so perhaps another option to consider.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2024, 06:33:06 am
content: Here's a datasheet for the Velleman. It can do FFT analysis (or I guess it's software can), no $20 DSO138 will do that. I have scopes but would like a USB scope too, there's lots of times that can be more convenient, than some old stand-alone scope. Like for taking a screenshot.There's lots of nice old analog and digital scopes, but yeah, they are mainly big and heavy, probably cost more than $50, might have a loud fan, probably won't have any modern PC support.A lot of the old ones might have better input protections, and measure higher overall voltages.There's lot's that could go wrong with a USB scope, or an old CRT scope, that would be hard to repair/replace, cheaply and quickly.Since I got my nice Siglent DSO's, I've barely touched my CRT scopes. If I had more room, I'd use them more often.I paid up near $150US, for a used Tektronix 2215. Just looking today on ebay they are over $200US (at least with shipping to Canada).https://cdn.velleman.eu/downloads/0/usermanual_hpcs64i.pdf

author: smokinIC
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 04:27:31 pm
content: hi. I bought one in 1999 for about 300GBP. It was a modest price for a DSO at the time. The software worked (really the parallel port driver) upto Windows 7 32bit. It had also been used on windows xp 32 bit. A masters student had used it to develop an iButton application in the 2000's. I'm not sure whether he was able to use a USB to parallel port adapater on his laptop. It had enough memory to store the data but i suppose a logic analyser/protocol analyser woud be more suitable. I have used it myself for interfacing micro controllers to various IC - RTC, sensors, memory etc. Obviously you can now get a better scope for the same money that has both its own screen and can be pc interfaced. I think there was also a project for a linux version of the software. More a matter of interest rather practicality I wonder if it can be interfaced to a Rpi and the linux software adapter for it.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 06:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: smokinIC on September 05, 2024, 04:27:31 pmWill most likely be possible, but it will need level converters because the Rpi is 3.3V IO and a parallel port is 5V. The tricky part will be the software. If the project you mentioned is open source it should not be a big deal to port it.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 07:21:48 pm
content: I had one a long time ago. Sold it due to the hassle of booting up an old computer with parallel port. I wouldn't bother today for the same reason. With a modern computer and parallel port adapter I don't think it would work, at least not with the original software. Attached is an old document with an overview how to read the data over LPT.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 07:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: smokinIC on September 05, 2024, 04:27:31 pmThe website is still onlinehttp://www.mtoussaint.de/qtdso.htmlI can't remember if I ever tried the linux software.