pcb transparent film printing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 03:50:30 pm
content: hiiii have hp1005 and i want to buy new laser printer to make very black pcb film on transparency paperwhich is best hp or canon laser printerhp1102 or canon 6030 both have same priceproblem is laser printer not print qood black high denisty toner on transparent paperpleas help mei want make very black film like this

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:14:09 pm
content: try tracing paper. Much better toner adhesion

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 05:22:10 pm
content: Use a colour printer, in colour black is made up of all 4 colours so much more toner is deposited possibly, at least that is how it works in offset printing, if i had to print solid black with just black I would have to put it through the press 2-4 times to get deep black. If i was doing a colour print process the black would be made up of a percentage of all 4 colours. I don't know if laser does this too.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 05:43:40 pm
content: Print it on 2 or 3 different transparency papers and glue them together.That's what I do.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 05:56:43 pm
content: 2 will do, I've done that before as well as you can't put the same page in a laser twice, only works on a real printer

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:40:24 pm
content: I've had great results with a canon MG5250 inkjet - especially using T shirt printing mode.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:55:50 pm
content: Modern Laser Printers and plastics films often don't give fully black areas, as the toner aglomerates. Drawing paper is usually better. It does not matter that the paper is not fully clear but more milky.Also rather old printer were better - I remember a Laser Jet III: It used so much toner that it was nearly readably to a blind person - one could feel it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 09:58:01 pm
content: This is what really impressed me...https://youtu.be/4SNkzoOvoD8

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:00:32 pm
content: tracing paper is best for printing on, I can't see plastic doing too well in a laser.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:13:14 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on December 05, 2015, 11:00:32 pmThere is a trick: I use transparencies retro laser but adhesion of the toner is low and the result is very bad.I do roughen the transparencies by rubbing with emery paper 380 and adhesion of toner become very good.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 12:11:17 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 05, 2015, 09:58:01 pmMe too!13 minutes isn't all that bad considering how much screwing around you have to do with toner transfer, but I wonder how much it cost to build and how difficult it is to set up.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 01:21:13 am
content: Quote from: rdl on December 06, 2015, 12:11:17 amEven more impressive is one that uses the laser from a laser printer and uses the rotating mirror to sweep across the board. It is nearly as fast as printing on paper. Its out there on YouTube somewhere, but I didn't find it when I was looking last time.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 02:15:20 am
content: Richard, not sure if this is what you were referring to, but I did a google keyword search which turned up the following links:https://www.das-labor.org/wiki/LaserExposerhttp://pcbwriter.github.io/

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:45:50 am
content: Quote from: steverino on December 06, 2015, 02:15:20 amYes those appear to be practical projects based on that original concept on YouTube.I love the concept, but it appears to be limited to 8.5 inch / 215 mm width.Or maybe one could find a scanner from one of the 11 inch / 280 mm wide laser printer engines.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 02:30:23 pm
content: thank to allthe low cost canon inkjet printer can work to print on transparentor must the printer have special specification ?i see here the inkjet better than laser printer ?

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:00:35 pm
content: I use premium inkjet transparencies. They give a perfect result but you have to let them dry at least 15 min, else they stick to the dry resist film on the PCB.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: ruffy91 on December 06, 2015, 03:00:35 pmany inkjet printer will work !!! or it must have special specification?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2015, 03:16:14 pm
content: It should just be one that uses pigment black ink, which blocks light far better than dye black. But if you're just buying a printer for this, a laser is probably better still.

author: EPLan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 12:35:07 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on December 05, 2015, 09:58:01 pmBen Heck did something similar with his laser engraver/cutter(?) -https://youtu.be/N3DGbwVXyN8There are lots of cheap laser engravers on AliExpress, I did wonder whether they would be suitable -link.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 02:26:27 pm
content: thank alli will try buying low cost canon inkjet printer like mp280 and it's have t-shirt printing mode as Fred27 says.*what is best laser printer to print on transparent paper canon or hp or brother.....etc

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 03:00:06 pm
content: Inkjets do generally seem to be better than lasers for transparencies. It might also be worth pointing out that t shirt mode mirrors the print. You need to do this anyway for the top layer.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 04:33:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on December 08, 2015, 03:00:06 pmsome cannon inkjet not have "t shirt mode" it will work or i must buy printer have this function?

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 04:38:04 pm
content: I have no idea which printers have this. I just discovered it on my MG5250 and it laid down a nice thick layer of ink that was sort of textured. Normal print seemed more liquid and darker at the edges like a dried coffee cup ring.Now I've got a microscope I might try getting some images of the difference.

author: owiecc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:19:02 pm
content: Quote from: 5282 on December 08, 2015, 04:33:59 pmYou can mirror the PCB's top layer in any PCB design software. You don't need the printer's built in function.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2015, 06:22:34 pm
content: Of course you can. You just need to remember not to if you're using t shirt mode.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 10:35:11 am
content: if i use canon inkjet I must print two or three transparencies and overlay them to make black enough?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 10:59:16 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 05, 2015, 05:22:10 pmWhen printing in black & white, typically only the black cartridge is used, not all four. The black is there exactly for that reason - mixing cyan, magenta and yellow does not typically produce good black, so the black is added extra. Also some printers have the black cart larger, because most document printing is done in B&W anyway.Offset printing is a different technology, while the color model is the same CMYK, they are not directly comparable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 11:13:59 am
content: Again, if you're buying an inkjet specifically for this purpose, then make sure the black ink is apigmentink, not adyeink. Pigment black is much, much denser than dye black and will produce a much blacker print.And once you have it, print in the highest resolution mode available. This will lay down a bit more ink, and do so a bit more evenly, than faster modes.

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2015, 12:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 10, 2015, 11:13:59 amcanon have pigament for back ink. you mean i do not need to print two twic transparencies and overlay them to make black enough

author: 5282
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 04:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: 5282 on December 10, 2015, 12:00:28 pmyes or no ?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2015, 07:18:58 pm
content: I honestly don't know. Never used an inkjet for PCB etching. Honestly, make a print onto inkjet transparency film and see how it looks. If you shine bright light through a solid black area and it doesn't look like light is making it through, it's probably OK. (I remember dye-based inkjet black ink, which let plenty of light through black areas. Today's pigment inks are FAR denser.)