Teledyne to buy FLIR ! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 03:52:44 pm
content: Yep, just read that Teledyne intend to buy FLIR !There could be some significant changes ahead.......https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-04/teledyne-to-buy-flir-systems-for-8-billion-augmenting-sensorshttps://www.theverge.com/2021/1/4/22213966/lidar-flir-teledyne-thermal-sensor-drones-nasahttps://techcrunch.com/2021/01/04/teledyne-to-acquire-flir-in-8-billion-cash-and-stock-deal/https://www.thestreet.com/investing/teledyne-tdy-flir-systems-acquisitionFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 04:01:59 pm
content: Interesting comment from Janes..... Teldyne move to buy FLIR after being blocked from buying Photonis by France.https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/teledyne-moves-to-buy-flir-systems-after-france-blocks-photonis-purchaseFraser

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 06:03:29 pm
content: ... very interesting.Photonis was indeed a target of Teledyne, but the french government prevented the acquisition because of its sensitive applications.Even though, Photonis does not produce microbolometers, they are from Bertin Technologie.Does Teledyne only focus on military imaging then?

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 07:57:24 pm
content: We use Teledyne cameras with GigE interface in industrial computer vision applications.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 10:43:50 pm
content: Teledyne are already doing GigE Vision TI cameras with their own microbolometers - have had a play with one. One of the selling points was that it was not ITAR infected - I wonder what their plans are with that line now?

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 07:21:43 am
content: Pretty sure it's not their own microbolometers. But did I read correctly hat they are in Canada? Doubt this changes much, but might change a bit?As FLIR has themselves acquired other companies with a focus on UAV, I wonder if that is what the "little to no overlap" means.Looking at how other microbolometer manufacturers got moved around between the big military contractors this might not be the end.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 09:26:05 am
content: They actually told me it was their own (I was dubious too!)At the very least they aren't ULIS or FLIR ones.And yes, definitely in Canada

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 12:04:36 pm
content: Indeed they are. VOx without EAR or ITAR, just a 'by the book' Canadian application of Wassenaar.The confusing part is that Teledyne also use (or used) ULIS sensors for some of their thermal cameras. Whether that is due to availability, cost or simply an established design I do not know.Now if only Teledyne-e2v still had a thermal camera business .........Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 12:16:43 pm
content: Bill_W,It is a funny old World isn’t itI have to wonder what Teledyne have planned for FLIR and whether they will revert FLIR to mainly Industrial/Professional thermal imaging products, which was their core business. The consumer grade cameras may be more trouble than they are worth. The market is awash with inexpensive thermal cameras from Asia so that market is becoming challenging for Western Camera manufacturers in terms of turning a decent profit.If you research the financial history of FLIR it is clear that, whilst very successful, it has had some serious stumbles along the way. Various projects have not born the expected fruit or had expensive development issues. The move into the budget consumer market was both brave and risky and I do not know how well that arm of FLIR is performing. I do know that the consumer grade camera division that offers the likes of the FLIR One cameras is a separate ‘module’ of FLIR with its own dedicated support staff etc. It could conceivably be sold off or shut down. That divisions consumer products appear to be mostly/all of Far East origin.FraserFraser

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 08:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on January 06, 2021, 09:26:05 amI think they bought the technology from INO.

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2021, 09:47:57 pm
content: Could this lead to reduced prices in the future?

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 01:19:09 pm
content: No. Teledyne is more a company making high grade scientific and industrial equipment.Between the two, FLIR was the one venturing more in the consumer/prosumer segment , for example with their acquisition of Extech.So right now Teledyne+Flir is not more consumer than what Flir alone was.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 06:43:34 pm
content: Regarding TeledyneLecroy customer support......I bought a very specialist Lecroy-CATC IEEE1394 protocol Analyzer recently for a very reasonable cost. Sadly the available software on the Teledynelecroy software archive was not compatible with my older hardware due to a software licencing issue. The hardware was effectively a paperweightNow this CATC FireInspector is a 1998 design and the last PC software release was in 2004 ! How much of a chance do you think I had of getting any meaningful support from TeledyneLecroy for a piece of equipment that went obsolete many years ago ? Not much, some might say (including myself). Well I was wrong. TeledyneLecroy Customer Support put me in contact with a very helpful chap who worked on the CATC FireInspector when CATC was still a separate company. Matthew telephoned me today and worked with me to ascertain what was going on in my FireInspector hardware. Apparently the firmware update licence requirement was removed in 2004 but apparently my FireInspectro did not 'get the memo' and still wanted a Licence File to be entered.Long story cut short..... Matthew diagnosed the issue, considered options and then supplied the required Encrypted Software Maintenance licence file for my hardware's serial number. All this was done over the course of 30 minutes and Matthew waited to ensure that all went well with the licence file...... it did and my Fireinspector loaded the required later firmware package before presenting me with the welcome news that it was now updated and happy to work with the 2004 release of the PC softwareThe whole story is to be found here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/lecroy-catc-fireinspector-ieee1394-analyser-anyone-else-own-one-please/msg3410414/#msg3410414Why am I writing this in the thermal Imaging sub forum ? Well Matthew told me that TeledyneLecroy are a company that likes to support individuals as well as companies, as and when time and resources permit. It sounds like FLIR is going to be part of a good company that believes support for both new and older equipment is important. They effectively supported my hardware that was obsolete over 10 years ago and that is used for a now obsolete communications protocol ! All I can say is that is excellent customer supportI will be using the FireInspector to analyse the encrypted data stream that passes between my FireWire/IEEE1394a thermal cameras and the host PC. This will hopefully enable the creation of a camera control instruction set that the OEM declines to share with me. We shall seeI also need to carry out some diagnostic work on a thermal camera that is seen by the host PC on its Firewire port but communications cannot be established with the PC software. For those unaware, IEEE1394a requires a clever hardware data intercept rather than a software type as found for USB.Fraser

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 04:28:36 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 22, 2021, 06:43:34 pmDid you introduce yourself as an ex-british-government employee ?

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 10:49:30 am
content: Fluke+Flir was really a worse match compared with Teledyne+Flir.Apart from the name maybe

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 11:43:00 am
content: Bud,Nope. I was honest and said I was an electronics hobbyist wishing to use the unit in a home lab for non commercial activities.Fraser

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2021, 10:38:45 pm
content: I know Teledyne is good for helping out people with their older stuff too. HOPEFULLY I can get a reflash on one of my Photons that's got a futz'd FPGA on it and replacement shutter actuators for my other one.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2021, 12:05:56 am
content: Arseniodev,Sadly that is a big ask for FLIR on such an elderly core. They are unlikely to still hold the FPGA code or any spare parts for the Photon. Obtaining spare parts for much younger cores is a serious challenge and the Photon went out of support long ago. The FLIR response to addressing the obsolescence of the Photon was to make a ‘Photon to TAU’ adapter board so that a TAU may be used in place of a Photon. Even if spare parts were held for the Photon, my experience is that they would be very expensive. There is a small chance that the actuator solenoid was a COTS part that may still be available if you know where to look. A bit like those tiny vibration motors used in mobile phones. Where such motors or solenoids are concerned it is common fir them to be bought in from a company that specialises in such parts.On the FPGA configuration data set, I think you would be very lucky if they still held it and even if they did, it is considered low level firmware and I doubt they would be permitted to release it as it likely contains the frame rate controlsSometimes it is a case of knowing a friendly FLIR service tech who has a ‘junk box’ containing the mortal remains of cores that were beyond repair. Such junk boxes can provide otherwise unobtainable parts which is why techs have such ‘junk boxes’Sadly on this occasion I cannot help you as I have no dead Photon cores to rob parts from. Sadly faulty Photon cores do not come up on eBay too often either.The VP of FLIR sourced a replacement casing for my FLIR Scout from just such a ‘junk box’. He advised that, where the Scout was concerned, there was virtually no spare parts holding.I am sorry that it is not better news.Fraser

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2021, 07:23:26 pm
content: Damn, Maybe I'll just have to RE the sensor interface myself and then reimplement it with a new FOSS Image board once I bump my FPGA knowledge up a few tiers.WRT the solenoid drive motor, it's slipped back a bit and doesn't drive the flag down unless I give the motor a nudge down, may print a shim to be held in between front cover and back side.I definitely have to figure out how to get in contact with people at FLIR, so far it's been just pretty uselessly asking their customer service side.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 08:42:02 pm
content: This might be an older topic. But I felt like I should share. Found this eBay listing for a Teledyne VGA core.https://www.ebay.de/itm/Industrie-IP-Warmebildkamera-Thermalkamera-Dalsa-Calibir-Model-640GigE/254893726465Correction:It has the software and a license for it included. Just missing power supply. But it might work with GigE Vision as per brochure.There is less than a day to go and no bids on it. It would probably be a neat unit if operational. I doubt the seller would go lower since it's currently at like 900€ and support will be questionable.

author: MrPlatnum
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 05:25:53 pm
content: I actually bought that exact camera independently from your post.I can update you on the quality, if you want, when it arrives.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 10:52:09 pm
content: Edit: looks like this is an older camera design than the one I tested, though it looks identical. Hopefully most of what I said still applies!I have tested one of the Teledyne GigE vision cameras(basically the same as the ebay one but with a different lens).My notes:- You should be able to get it going with a standard PoE (power over ethernet) supply via a midspan injector or PoE switch and a normal gigabit network link (don't bother trying to find the actual PSU, it's 12V but uses a custom pin header thing (looks like 2mm pitch or so) that has keying and some screws to hold it on, I don't know the pinout and it's much more work than just using PoE- You may be able to view and configure the camera with the Sapera CamExpert software from here:https://www.teledynedalsa.com/en/products/imaging/vision-software/sapera-lt/download/- I seem to recall that I was able to download it by simply filling out the form too.- There is a utility that lets you discover the camera and change IP etc- The performance of the one I tested wasn't as good as a FLIR Tau2 in some ways, e.g. it wasn't able to resolve small temperature differences as the FLIR and didn't have quite as good AGC performance for some scenes, but it is certainly capable of producing very good images.- The camera will get pretty warm to the touch, this is normal.- There are a _lot_ of options in the CamExpert software. You may need to play with some of them to get it to work properly, e.g. I had severe fixed pattern noise until I was able to normalise it and make the camera save and apply it on startup (I think the Teledyne people helped me with this). This was a setup issue rather than a hardware problem.- In theory you should be able to get it going with other GigE vision software- Teledyne may be able to supply different interfaces to the camera -internally there is a MIPI link andthe GigE vision interface/PSU block fits onto the back. Probably would cost more than the camera did though and you'd need to talk to Teledyne.- The Teledyne people were very good to deal with, though this was in the context of a loan for product evaluation.- I may have some other info (this is all from memory), but I'm not certain of it, as this was done last year just before I left my previous job.Finally, for 900 EUR (assuming it works) this is an absolute steal!

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 02:06:53 am
content: It seems my previous reply didn't make it...Congratulations on the win there. Single bid. I was considering it myself, but ended up missing the auction and am glad it got into proper hands. I wasn't sure if it was a framerate limited model.I already have well performing cores but this one is well more modern with a smaller lens and smaller sensor. But it would allow digital access and control making it really interesting. From a manual I found it looked promising file type wise. If this could be matched with a SBC a field monitor and some power solution it might work as a portable camera to some extend. If you search German eBay you will find a listing for a tau based portable built by another forum member that made this idea happen to some extend.It's just interesting to see where their own microbolometer technology goes to after getting FLIR.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 08:51:02 am
content: Quote from: Vipitis on March 18, 2021, 02:06:53 amThere's probably still a market there due to the non-ITAR-infected nature of it, though they'd have to be careful to keep it that way with the FLIR knowledge/people on board now.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 09:52:59 am
content: Will this mean higher prices or lower prices? Will it mean an end to consumer level thermal cameras like the FLIR One? Or possibly more consumer level thermal cameras?