Inventors beware:   Winds are changing on any petrol running machines - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 06:24:24 pm
content: Actually, this really should be getting to be old news, but things are moving really fast. These days, self awareness and a couple of blunders does little, to stop the truly impractical agenda, of those who wish to package climate change with the several other social change goals.Now, if you care to unpack that opening statement; I'm trying to say, related to a newer, offset piston engine being covered by YouTube. That newer engine has 4 pistons, in a compact engine block. It's going to be interesting to view how this plays out. I could imagine that here, in the United States, such a PETROL operated motor has a substantial chance of being banned, outright...no matter the efficiency or other advantages."Petrol (or gasoline) products eliminated by 2026, for any vehicles is now a statement being made by leaders demands". It's not me making things up!On the other hand, in some parts of the world, not bound to US influence so much, that compact 4 cylinder motor looks to be marketed and sold as a 'range extender' for electric vehicles, in certain long travel circumstances.It's going to be an interesting (but rocky) unfolding of events, but please don't make the mistake in assuming that the various newer social justice agendas will fold after a couple of blunders, or setbacks, due to naive or just plain ignorant approaches....they often will just brush off the debris, deny the crazy, and continue (to espouse some visibly faulty agendas). A lot of this post is my own view, but you can't deny the statements, made, such as eliminating any military or police providing protection.It ain't me; I'm just pointing out what's being proposed.Thanks for reading.- - RickJack in Hayward, California

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 06:48:00 pm
content: I think the Ariel Four motorcycle from the 1960s used four pistons in a block. Interesting if that square arrangement becomes more popular.Whatever happens with gasoline, there are synthetic fuels that such engines can also run on. Under what conditions are gas turbine generators more efficient than reciprocating piston generators?

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 07:02:00 pm
content: Thanks helius, I need to re-watch the video and post the title. I believe the thing runs on hydrogen as a fuel.But my main point is that a lot of decisions are being made in a vacume of any practical comparisons, and, when confronted by the inevitable failures the current crowd (mob) just seems to deny and ignore and keep pushing the agenda. That's why the whole Solar Roadways thing gets so hilarious, that some folks have, err, a lot of persistence, that's for sure.So, unfortunately, that comparison, of turbine vs. rotary engine practicality has very little bearing. I think the engineering aspects are suppressed, (in the haste to further an agenda).

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 07:09:47 pm
content: So, the tip for inventors then is ensure anything "petrol" powered they develop can also be run on biofuels (including low viscosity uncontaminated chip fat) and/or hydrogen. Either those alternatives will never be banned, or they might get banned as fuels by green nutters*, but will still be available to be sourced as they aren't reliant on the corporate dominated supply chains for fossil fuel petrol.*they rant about fossil fuels, which is almost reasonable, but they then propose socially and economically disastrous bans on just about everything without any consideration as to how to fill the holes they'd leave with alternatives which are actually as capable. Yes we must wean ourselves off fossil fuels, they will run out in a while afterall, but if green activists cared about the planet they'd be seeking to build sufficient nuclear capacity to de-fossil-fuel the fixed grid before worrying about transport applications where the energy density of hydrocarbon fuels makes them impsosible to replace until masive amounts of hydrogen infrastructure are online. And if green activists cared about the planet they'd focus on dealing with major industrial pollution by megacorporations, rather than give all their elite chums a free-pass to pollute whilst attacking farmers and small businesses which make up only a minor fraction of the emissions bother.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 07:18:02 pm
content: Quote from: RJHayward on May 31, 2023, 06:24:24 pmThe engine in the Toyota Prius already uses an offset crankshaft (probably since the first model). And I doubt they are the only ones. Toyota recons it improves efficiency by 1 to 3 percent.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 08:38:32 pm
content: When I was a kid, theWankel Enginewas going to save society. Trouble was, the Wankel engine was as fuel efficient as burning whale oil in a storm lamp. Plus, no-one had the material science capable of building one that was both affordable and reliable over 10,000 miles.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engineI suggest the petrol engine has reached the same development plateaux that cathode ray tubes reached in the 1990s. CRT's went extinct in a very short period of time. Within 20 years, petrol engines will be confined to classic cars run by die hardpetrolbio-diesel heads.State of the art right now, the Yasa/Mercedesaxial-flux electric motor:https://yasa.com/technology/

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 09:00:57 pm
content: You must bow to the climate change god, or else!My little finger is telling me that we'll be using more oil in 20 years than we are now. The growth rate of use may just slow down a bit, but in absolute value, that'll be more. But don't listen to my little finger, he just says random stuff.With that said, regarding vehicles, OTOH, we may be lucky in 20 years from now if we can drive a vehicle at all, even if runs on fairy dust. But, don't listen, that's my little finger again!

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 10:22:51 pm
content: The YouTube coverage I mentioned is a new (3 days) video on Scotch Yoke engine.That info got me started thinking about the issues involving EV supplement technology, mostly for long trips. The 4 cylinder engine is small enough to tuck into formerly strange places, such as right up side against a rear wheel, changing the conventional approach which involved having accessable charging stations everywhere soon.Honestly, that aspect relating to EV industry hadn't occurred to myself, but now I suspect we could witness a kind of split, where developing countries might wish to allow petrol based systems, perhaps with reasonable efficiency, and necessity. Meanwhile some countries (and treaty activity) would be free to try the 'total ban' route while others continue with fossil fuels. I do doubt, instinctively, that wind power alone can provide the numbers...that is the kilowatt-hours total, regardless of cost considerations.But, as in the title of this thread, I would be cautious as an inventor, and reluctant to spend much doing research on, for instance, a new gas carbonator design, in the US. Going that route might be best to find stable marketplace that doesn't want to ban your new fossil fueled devices.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 01:42:44 am
content: Quote from: RJHayward on May 31, 2023, 10:22:51 pmOne advantage of a Scotch yoke engine is the piston movement is a pure sinusoid, so provided it doesn't form a rocking couple, an adjacent piston moving in the opposite direction can perfectly balance it. This is not the case with an inline 4 cyl engine for example. If the crank is rotated to 90 deg after top dead centre, all the pistons, while level with each other are actually slightly more than halfway down the bore. The now angled connecting rods pull them further down than they would otherwise be. This means the rising pistons will travel further than the descending pistons in the next 90 degrees of rotation and consequently they won't balance each other fully. Gives rise to predominantly a double frequency vibration in the vertical plane. This double frequency vibe can be greatly reduced by a pair of side by side balance shafts rotating opposite direction to each other at twice crankshaft rpm, but it still leaves the higher harmonics present. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but in this case, putting some lipstick on a pig helps to a worthwhile extent. Off topic perhaps, but I thought it was interesting.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 10:39:33 am
content: Quote from: RJHayward on May 31, 2023, 10:22:51 pmThe problem I see with Scotch Yoke engines is how to lubricate the pin on the rotating wheel? Hydrodynamic lubrication as used on crankshafts and other moving parts in an engine has proved to be super reliable but I don't see how that can be applied to a Scotch Yoke engine in an easy way. And how to deal with the forces / extra weight due to the larger construction? If you google around a bit you'll find various car manufacturers have already looked at this type of engine a long time ago.QuoteThat is already there: hybrid cars

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 04:02:53 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 31, 2023, 07:18:02 pmIs this related to the Atkinson cycle used in most/all Toyota hybrids? It is ideal for hybrids because the lower power output can be supplemented with an electric motor, giving more acceptable power outputs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 04:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 01, 2023, 04:02:53 pmNo. Afaik the offset camshaft is just an extra. Googling around shows this is very common practise for all kinds of engines. Maybe all engines have this as it is a simple trick to prevent wear that doesn't cost any extra. The Atkinson cycle has nothing to do with it.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 05:14:44 pm
content: Wankels, poor efficiency? I thought the whole point of the wankel rotary design was high efficiency, but that they were rarely used as they were a manufacturing tolerances and maintenance nightmare?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 09:09:23 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on June 01, 2023, 05:14:44 pmNo, the whole point was: a lot fewer moving parts, a lot smaller and lighter for a given horsepower, and much reduced vibrations.While it was possible to achieve a higher peak horsepower with a smaller chamber volume, it unfortunately never equated with a higher fuel efficiency - Wankel engines are quite hungry.Really the benefits are much reduced vibrations and lighter engines for a given horsepower.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 09:16:18 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on June 01, 2023, 05:14:44 pmWankels can achieve high efficiency under ideal conditions, but have been lousy when used in things like NSU and Mazda cars. Mazda seems to have brought back their Wankel engine as a range extender for an electric car with a modest sized battery, where it can run in perpetually ideal conditions (apart from warm up, of course). Used in this way it is a very compact and lightweight solution, that should last a long time, and is reasonably efficient. It should also be highly reliable, although that will come down to how well it has been implemented.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 10:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on June 01, 2023, 05:14:44 pmThe combustion chamber has a high surface to volume ratio which means more boundary layer of unburnt fuel out the exhaust plus greater heat losses to the cooling system.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2023, 02:29:12 am
content: Folks, you missed a BIG aspect of my presentation. That is, NO discussion of efficiency or comparison of emissions is going to satisfy the crowd vying for power, (in U.S.). It's, stark, naked BAN, PROHIBITION of gas / petrol...period.That's the major gist, of my warnings, here. (Those) folks likely cannot even spell something like 'Carnot Cycle', or 'Emissions lifetime', let alone any practical discussion.You're being 'too smart', with an illiterate 500 pound bear in the woods....IMO.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2023, 04:03:39 am
content: I noticed in a flyer deposited in my letterbox all sorts of gardening machines. One item that caught my eye is a Stihl "World-first" fuel injected chain saw.What is this fuckery?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2023, 04:03:51 am
content: First it was Big Oil preventing us from having electric cars.Now it's Big Electricity planning to prevent us from having fossil fuel cars.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2023, 05:56:45 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 02, 2023, 04:03:51 amYes, knowing that the majority of electricity production uses fossil fuels. But that's not a problem. Because.I know my little finger is a lier, have a look at this graph:https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fossil-fuel-consumption-by-fuel-typeWho would doubt that within a couple decades it's going to go down to nearly zero?