People actually unironically developing an open source perpetual motion motor? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 05:39:39 pm
content: By unironically i mean they seem quite adamant about it but we all know the ugly truth that comes from our wonderful laws of physics.And by people i mean an entire forum, look here:https://www.mooker.com/showthread.php?tid=95Search didn't show any mentions of this place on the eevblog forum so i thought i'd share it here. Not to point and laugh, we don't do that hereIt claims to be an open source free energy forum, which you already know means it's all about perpetual motion and friggin' magnets (how do they work?).I mean free energy does exist. We get free energy from the sun, if not PV, then just heat. It's energy and it's freeBut i digress.What intrigues me is what kind of thinking process leads them to believe that this is possible? These things are something i would have thought was possible back in third grade when i was a kid and even dumber than i am now.Also it's really fun watching them try to find out how to replicate and reverse quackgineer someone else's magnet motor, because the original creator is keeping his sauce a secret. So much for open source huh?They even made youtube videos to explain their thinking and how they can make their motor work. Their philosophy really is something else.And let's get real for a moment. If they got this far in life and still believe they can make it work, then we won't change their mindset and there's no point intruding in their forum to make them change their thinking. Some people really do forget this fact sometimesYou don't play chess with pigeons.But that doesn't mean we can't appreciate all the mind-bending ways they try to reason their way out of basic thermodynamics.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 05:49:09 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on June 18, 2024, 05:39:39 pmTwo things, IMHO:1. Dunning-Kruger2. Anti-intellectualism (the distrust of formal education, and more recently “alternative facts”, i.e. the “my thoughts, feelings, and wishes trump your facts” attitude)

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 06:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 18, 2024, 05:49:09 pmDoes the latter also include those "negative ion" wackos that would buy pendants and other garbage laced with radioactive thorium oxides?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 06:54:10 pm
content: Watched the first "motor" video there. "Ah there is still the sticky moment, that should not be there. How strange."Also watched the "monopole" magnet making video.One side of the permanent magnet repels the ball baring and the other side attracts it. Is that not normal magnet behavior? Two south or two north poles repel each other, and a north and a south pole attract each other. So clearly the ball baring extends the magnetic field of the speaker magnet in a normal way. Nothing true monopole there.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 07:57:23 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on June 18, 2024, 06:54:10 pmI think their unfathomable logic is an evolutionary trait that has allowed them to survive long enough to gather a small community. Strictly through draining the mental capacity of anyone with functioning logical thinking to a point where they choose to stand back.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 10:25:33 pm
content: I see it in a positive light.Creative endeavours is much better than joining the IS or the Proud Boys.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 10:30:02 pm
content: Many people would do anything to get some exposure these days. I think you're overthinking it and are trying to apply your own thought process to them.They are just looking for exposure.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 01:12:10 am
content: "...clout is a powerful drug... "

author: ArdWar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 01:45:42 am
content: Eh, just let them be. At least it's (mostly) harmless. Also who knows, off chance that we might actually get something useful out of their effort lol.It's only when they try to grift governments/politician (which eventually means my tax money) or poor people that I have problems with.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 05:53:09 am
content: It looks like they're having fun. Free energy might be impossible, but that doesn't negate having fun making stuff, sharing designs and the feeling of community.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 05:58:19 am
content: Quote from: Whales on June 19, 2024, 05:53:09 amAbsolute.But "Free" is a poor word in all these experiments. A 3D printer and filament does not come that cheap.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 07:53:34 am
content: Free energy is possible… if…We could orbit a black hole and drop a bucket into itWhich is impossible to doSo it's impossible-However, from what emerges today, it seems impossible - at the principle level - to drop a bucket or anything else beyond the event horizon of most black holes (wtf!), so I'm not even sure anymore.Just as I am no longer sure that the deep field cosmological analysis really works, given that it seems that we have just identified 60,000 possible Dyson spheres!Not an example of free energy, but a possible sci-fi way to use a star's energy much more efficiently than we are limited to with solar panels.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 08:11:03 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 18, 2024, 10:30:02 pmSomething that many Youtubers don't do?I saw a guy build bikes with a 3 meter diameter rear wheel, what the hell is the point?He made 4 videos of us, to recover the material, weld it, and try that thing on the road....It even ended badly because the frame literally folded in two and fell, even breaking the camera.But who cares! It got us almost 2 million views! with a sponsor!what the hell is the point? in sticking two electric skateboards (1000 euro each) under the sofaand then try it on the street, among cars!?! The police stopped him, and fined him!But who cares! It got us almost 3 million views! with a sponsor!That's the point -> money!-Just wait until@ElectroBOOMsees that forum with that nosense "free-energy" they are taking about ...Then I am sure he will definitely make a couple of videos where he slaps everyone

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 08:47:35 am
content: I like the inquisitiviness 👍, but the anti-intellectualism tooki pointed out, and honestly (in my opinion) the anti-science stance, makes me utterly sad. 😢There is "free" energy all around us, ready for harvesting, ready to be converted into more useful forms.Just consider heat pumps. The technology involved isold! Refrigerants like propane (R290) have been used a long time, we just have a bit more efficient electric motors for the pumping action, and somewhat better materials (better quality cheap aluminium, mainly). People just didn't consider using a heat pump for heating their houses fifty or a hundred years ago. (Except for unique exceptions like the Geneva City Hall since 1928.) Manytodaystill do not realize that when correctly installed and working, they provide much more heat per buck than direct heating!Thatkind of innovative thinking is what we need. Synthesis. Exploration. Looking at existing stuff with open new eyes to see new useful applications.I do not want the perpetual motion enthusiasts to stop, per se. I want them to see that there arealmostas enticing, but actually feasible and achievable discoveries waiting out there, achievable even for enthusiasts and hobbyist explorers.Thatis the true unexplored frontier right now, in my opinion.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 09:38:44 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 19, 2024, 08:47:35 amSure, but the problem with the feasible options it that getting proper efficiency requires more refined equipment than the average hobbyist has.Take for instance the heat of the earth's core. Scientists think it is a good sustainable source of energy, but to tap into it you need to drill quite deep. So you need proper and expensive equipment for doing simple experiments.A fun thing I saw recently is a spring motor, that can run on it's own for a while, and you see youtube videos about them as being the next revolutionary thing for free energy, but these things have a fine balance between the flywheel and the spring tension, and my guess is that as soon as you load it with a generator the balance will be gone and it just grinds to a halt.But like DiTBho wrote, there is money in the views they get.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 01:01:49 am
content: I had an Uber ride last week. And the driver had one of those free energy whirley gig things on his dash. I didn’t say a word.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 01:27:17 am
content: As far as impinging some set of beliefs, that's relatively 'provable', but, alas, we must first agree, on meaning of 'provable'.Heck, I offer, as example, Two Cats, of whom I managed to 'convince', thru audio cues, that I had an actual LASER pointer, flashing around in the room!Nope, no pointer, just a set of audible cues, to 'sound' like a laser, (at least the comical movie style "whoosh" of some big fat beam).People, and cats, are trainable. Especially cats.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 06:45:32 am
content: I'm sure a lot more concerned by wide misuse of public money on dead-end projects, rather than individuals trying funky (or just plain stupid) stuff and talking about it in videos. They make money from the exposure, sure, but at least they're not taking money from people without their consent. So I don't have much problem with that. And there are enough of us to debunk the stupid stuff.I agree with Nominal that just getting people interested in those topics and experimenting is a good thing.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 07:47:49 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 20, 2024, 06:45:32 am.. and be sure the people who decide on the EU/public spending on "dead-end" (or I would call idiotic) projects usually spend the whole day watching those funky videos..

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 08:17:55 am
content: Quote from: iMo on June 20, 2024, 07:47:49 amI bet we could replace our EU parliament, commission, and all upper echelons of civil servants with ChatGPT, with everyone else only becoming happier and more prosperous.No matter what those people watch or do not watch, their decisions seem to be generated as a side effect of gut microbiota or fermentation, take your pick.

author: eutectique
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 11:11:07 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 20, 2024, 08:17:55 amI just imagined a colony of ants consumed byOphiocordyceps unilateralis.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 12:21:52 pm
content: What I don't understand is this insistence on making bizarre perpetual motion inventions work, when there are already virtually perpetual and very cheap sources of energy (such as photovoltaic + batteries).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_perpetual_motion_machines

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 04:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on June 19, 2024, 07:53:34 amAbout 50 years ago, I attended a lecture by an astrophysicist about the theoretical implications of lowering a mass into a black hole from orbit.To oversimplify his thought experiment, imagine an unbreakable fishing line connected to a reel that allowed the mass to fall slowly past the event horizon as the reel rotation delivered power to a suitable generator and load.As I remember the analysis, this allowed extracting energy equal to the relativistic mass-energymc2of the falling object.He pointed out that you can't extract that much energy in a nuclear or similar reaction, since they are limited by conservation of baryon (heavy particle) number: in normal nuclear reactions, roughly, a neutron changes into a proton plus other particles, with a net change of baryon mass of about 0.8 MeV/c2out of a neutron mass of about 940 MeV/c2, while conserving baryon number.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 09:17:24 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 20, 2024, 08:17:55 amBy conventional "expert systems", probably (although of course that's still questionable). But LLMs? Certainly not, as those are by nature just generating a mix of already existing stuff, so we'd end up with the worst of what we have already done. No thanks.Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 20, 2024, 08:17:55 amI would prefer to think so. Unfortunately, corruption through lobbying, which the EU parliament is infested with, is usually the explanation.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 02:07:58 pm
content: a collaborative snake oil development program

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 02:53:08 pm
content: It is useful to note that even Isaac Newton dabbled in alchemy andoccultism.If you think that it was "okay to do so at his time", you're wrong: practicing alchemy was banned, and could lead to one being hanged for it.

author: victorb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 07:26:14 pm
content: The sheer determination they have is kinda impressive, even if it's misguided. I remember trying to make a perpetual motion machine as a kid too, lol.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 08:29:58 pm
content: Although I generally get frustrated with people who really believe these things - take a fundamental misunderstanding and run with it, and come up with all sorts of complicated justifications for their false belief - its worth noting that of all the pseudoscience and snake oil stuff these days, this sort of thing is probably one of more inocuous ideas.I used to be quite harsh about this sort of thing, but there are far more dangerous things than a group of people trying to understand the world by building funny machines. Hopefully, of those who are more technically minded, will test their theories and update them and see they it starts to converge with standard models. I don't see they're harming anyone.There *can* be harm - trying to get funding or investments from gullible who don't have the cash to waste - but I haven't seen these communities do that. Sure, there will be a start-up making silly claims and getting funding, but those are actual scam artists who are knowingly trying to defraud investors, rather than the "free energy" community with their coils and magnets.There is crank magnetism though - a belief in something fridge tends to lead to more fridge beliefs over time if someone really goes down teh rabbit hole ("they" are lying to you, flat earth, vaccine nano bots, its all a simuation! etc..) but thats more that, those who are likely to go down this route will probably gravitate towards these communities first, before becoming a full-on space cadet.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 09:22:11 pm
content: Might seem not related, but with mention of European union mega-big projects, whether feasible or not, they do provide a sort-of welfare or job access, with the humongous sizes and heights. That, then brings to mind another mega-big transit station project, here in San Francisco.Includes 'wellness' factor, by the way, in the huge construction. A cavernous central chamber, occupied some 3 city blocks, as a transit 'hub'.Meanwhile, those 'transit systems' include high-speed rail, to Los Angeles and several modes of translo. Heck....I bet they even were forced to TAKE OUT, eliminate some of the SF iconic cable car lines....meanwhile the high speed stuff, (and BART electrics) slowly going bankrupt.But there is wellness factors, built in, to the transit hub. It's been plagued with cost ovveruns and mechanical failures, such as cracks in high stress beams.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 04:51:22 am
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on June 18, 2024, 05:39:39 pmAnd whilst you are all reading that old bollocks, and laughing at how stupid these people are, the cookies are harvesting your personal details.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 05:42:44 am
content: Quote from: Xena E on June 25, 2024, 04:51:22 amAfter which, you'll be well-advised to ponder who's the fool in the end.