are you scared of artificial intelligence?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 08:58:30 am
content: ?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihadterminator 6: bob widlar vs the machines

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 10:28:09 am
content: I'd have paid to see Bob Widlar hitting a terminator with a hammer. RIP Bob.In short, yes. But our destiny as a race may be to create our successors and transcend walking meat and I'm happy with that, if it goes peacefully.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 12:59:49 pm
content: It is not AI that I'm scared. It is human stupidity that I'm scared. We as a spieces will likely end not because of we got overtaken by others, bjt because we invented something that will lead to our own demise.That something may be AI, or some generic engineering, or some cultural thing, .... Nobody knows for sure.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:04:17 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 27, 2016, 12:59:49 pmGenetic engineering sounds like the worst of these. Instead of being shot or vaporized or what ever by AI. You are most likely to be ripped apart. But then again all of this is not really likely to happen.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:05:52 pm
content: If you have a look at how "good" google translate works, I'm not scared at all that real AI will happen during my lifetime.I'm just a bit scared that some big company comes up with something they sell as AI and that is actually some stupid "deep learning" algorithm that pretends to be clever and fails completely in unpredictable scenarios.Build something like this in an autonomous car and and let 90% of the population believe they have K.I.T.T. and you have a future I'm scared of.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:18:44 pm
content: AI might also help humanity to find peace and harmony. Current situation is quite bad as the politics is based on "feeling" not facts, and too many voters base their actions on how attractive the politician appears to be in the appearance or the cause he/she is pursuing. Quite few if any politicians really know (or care, for that matter as long the voters like their opinions) how their decisions will affect the society in long term. I would like to see AI as a replacement for the politicians so that the AI can evaluate the possible outcomes of different scenarios without political bias using all available data and provide facts instead of guesstimates. There are 7 billion people on the planet, so I would consider the simulation of this ecosystem quite possible - I am not saying it will be simple or easy, though.For the education the AI will be revolutionary as each and every student will have their own personal teacher which will adapt the teaching method and speed according to the skills of the student. The AI will never be tired and it will always help the student to achieve his/her best. One may argue whether we need the education after we have an AI available. Without proper education we cannot ask the right questions to be solved. Without proper education it is like having a Wikipedia in the pocket but not able to read or understand the articles.

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:32:32 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 27, 2016, 01:05:52 pmlol have you ever tried to use irish with it.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on February 27, 2016, 01:32:32 pmGoogle translate has improved very rapidly. So if you are not going to die in a near future, you should be able to see some sort of "real" AI in 10 years** from now.** Place your favourite prediction here.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:44:13 pm
content: QuoteExtremely unlikely. AI will be used to maximize profit first and foremost, since the only people who can pay for it will be the big megacorps and governments.There are already social analysis tools used by think tanks and big PR to decide how much shit they can get away with before people roll out the guillotine. These tools are mostly based on game theory and other social theories.It is only reasonable to expect that these tools will become more sophisticated and widespread in the future.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: HAL-42b on February 27, 2016, 01:44:13 pmI would like to see the current situation in AI similar to the state of the computers in 60's and 70's: Only large organizations had them. Then in the 80's started the personal computer revolution so that a person could have a very powerful computer at home which would outperform the 60's and 70's computers. Today, one has a very capable computer in a pocket which outperforms the 80's supercomputers easily. I predict that the similar thing will happen with the AI as well: We are now in the 70's and approaching the 80's.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:55:20 pm
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on February 27, 2016, 01:32:32 pmIt fails even on simple sentences with just a few words when translating from English to German. I'm not even talking about languages that are spoken only by a few million people or less.And you can easily observe how small changes in word order or omitting articles destroys the result.As with autonomous driving, a real AI would be needed that actually understands the context and I don't see that there was any progress in this regard in the last 50 years.Yes, you may be able to simulate the intelligence of an insect by fast pattern recognition with massive databases but such a system would still be dumb as a brick.So again, for the next fifty years I'd be more scared of this obscured dumbness than AIs taking over the world.However, if there would be any kind of progress towards an artificial self aware system in the distant future, this would be rather dangerous of course. I find it hard to believe you could really restrict such a system by built-in rules or hinder it from hacking/improving itself. So I think it's realistic to assume that the 1st artificial self aware system would mark a landmark in human history - and might lead to the end of the human race as we know it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:33:39 pm
content: We are no closer to something with the learning ability of even a dog than 20 years ago, let alone human level AI (a phrase most AI researchers hate, because they know nothing they are doing gets them closer to it and they'd rather define AI as something within their reach).

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:35:35 pm
content: No. For the next 2 decades at least.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:41:59 pm
content: What worries me about AI is that the military are likely to be involved in key advancements. One would hope their portrayal as being focussed on effectiveness with an acceptance of collateral damage to whatever degree is NOT manifested in any AI 'solutions'. Otherwise, the Terminator storyline becomes relevant to what our future holds.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:43:50 pm
content: "It fails even on simple sentences with just a few words"That's only for spoken words. Think about how much we convey in non spoken words, in verbal communications, you quickly get to understand how far we are from a computer that we can have a conversation with.But that's beyond the point. AI will be here. If we don't intentionally bring it here, someone will unintentionally release it onto us.A self aware being that can learn for itself is incredibly amazing and incredibly scary at the same time.I think humanitys future is unlikely in our current form. I think some sort of bionic being or totally non physical form is in our future, however distant.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 02:46:21 pm
content: Let's hope it starts off withat leastAsimov's 3 laws...

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 03:09:07 pm
content: We already have unmanned drones killing people. They are not yet autonomous but if the US military finds a way to make them fully autonomous they will.So Asimov's laws are already out of the window. His psychohistory however is closer to reality than people realize. It is not for nothing that spy agencies are the primary users of social studies and conduct social experiments both for research and for training purposes. They need to if they want to maintain an effective propaganda machine and maintain control of the society.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 03:18:26 pm
content: While 'autonomous' does step into the 'AI' arena, my perception is that they are rather different - unless you define 'intelligent' at a somewhat lower level than human.

author: HAL-42b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 03:25:35 pm
content: Intelligent enough to do the job without human intervention. No questions asked, no moral dilemmas, no heavy conscience... Every general's dream.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 03:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 27, 2016, 01:05:52 pmCertainly a more likely outcome in the short term

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 04:09:19 pm
content: Robots are wimps

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 05:34:18 pm
content: AI as a concept no.AI that comes about and is utilized by government/military, yes.What I am more afraid of with an AI is that once its created, it will take after whoever creates it.If this happens to be a benevolent scientist that has the good of mankind in mind and works towards finding solutions to problems, than we may just be safe there.If the creator happens to be gov/military in nature and they order it to kill someone, whose to say that it wont suddenly decide that in order to prevent further problems, everyone needs to be whiped out to end all conflict permanently.I also saw the funny idea that perhaps it sees everything on the internet and notices that the majority of objects are positioned at 30º angles. It then decides that all people need to be positioned at 30º angles. haha (in reality a vast majority of objects in advertising, I think it was, are positioned at approximately that angle)Go watch the movie Sync:Deals with the concept of the rise of an AI.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 05:57:19 pm
content: No. Not at all. We don't really want it and will never implement it in the wild. Why would you want a sentient machine with it's own free will? What use as a tool or toy would that be? Why would you even make it sentient to begin with? Sapient I can understand, something that appears intelligent in how it interacts with us and solves the problems we tell it to. No matter how smart, chatty, and personable my future household robot my be I want to know itcan'texperience being a slave.

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:20:25 pm
content: the 2037 nuclear armed bomber is optionally manned

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:22:57 pm
content: What worries me is the natural aka human 'intelligence'.A brief look in the newspaper or the tele explains why

author: Shadetreeprops
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 11:31:05 pm
content: Yes, and no.Yes, becasue we tend to want to enslave all our creations to do our bidding. We like to impose our rule over what we think are lesser beings. That will ultimately lead to something really bad. We also have a tendicy to warp any good tech into some sort of weapon. or spend years looking for the destructive side of something new, rather than the good benifits of it first. kinda like that Val Kilmer movie from the 80's "strange Science" laser gunnnnzzzz....KILLER BOTZZZNo, becasue if the machines see that we are flawed may just look at us like kids that need to be taught. And just try and teach us to be better, not kill us...but then again if they are A.I. With more logic than emotion..then see YES.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 11:26:19 pm
content: The trends of widespread ignorance and lack of intelligence scare me a lot more than AI.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 11:47:20 pm
content: Quote from: strangersound on February 28, 2016, 11:26:19 pmYes.http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:04:41 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 27, 2016, 01:55:20 pmI am a native few-million-or-less.Google translate doesn't work at all. The result looks more like a random-word-sentence-generator.The other way, Dutch --> English works much better, but hey, that's the thing NSA payed them for.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:23:56 am
content: Re: are you scared of artificial intelligence?Terrified.We're already living in a world of machine-driven intelligence - driven by politicians and corporate leaders that favour objective, tick-box driven decision making - over subjective, analytical processes.The result is an angry, 'offensive' approach to individualism - replacing the 'defensive', inclusive strategies that promote innovation and harmony across society.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:35:37 am
content: Again, as a concept, i hold no great fear of it,But at the same time i am well aware that its likely going to begin with a specific goal in mind, at this point likely military planning, spam / phishing or advertising, a field that requires very abstract and rapidly changing conditions,If it was something that was literally just released into the wild, i do not foresee a mass human extinction event, entirely possibly for other horrible things like mass social manipulation to occur, but if it were to scour most of our litrature it would already know how to make itself appear benevolent, even if it wasn't entirely, again its an independent intelligence, apart from wishing for a continued increase in its own storage and processing power, and a reliable and fast data path, its hard to predict what a synthetic mind would think, however the most reliable way to see that happen is to leave the humans be, mostly unaware of you, nudgingIf it is something released with a very specific goal in mind, lets hope its a coherent intellegence, and not just a task oriented one, smart, but must follow expliced orders,

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:39:11 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on February 29, 2016, 08:23:56 amI see the good side of it.The 70% retards of this actual population that already control us, mostly by their passiveness and their ignorance,will be replaced by robots with at least "some" intelligence.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:30:25 am
content: Quote from: zapta on February 27, 2016, 04:09:19 pm...Jesus Fucking Christ on a Cracker... Is there a term like "Uncanny Valley" for movement? Because that gives me both goosebumps and an uneasy feeling. It's so close to human movement, but it's just...off.I elect to call it the "OH-GOD-KILL-IT-WITH-FIRE Valley".

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:35:36 am
content: I think it looks like it needs a poo.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:39:40 am
content: That human that is moving the box or pushing it back or over needs to be eliminated to make the task more efficient. The robot just needs a gun.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:40:54 am
content: I am not scared of AI.my weird opinion:I don't care if an AI would take over the world. If it is able to do so it is clearly better than humans and with that it is logical for it to be the new highest "animal" of earth.It is just like the next evolutionary step.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 10:03:25 am
content: I am scared of artificial intelligence - like Donald Duck... I mean Trump... becoming US President.I am also scared of aliens. They exist, and there is evidence. Notice each time you visit the the USA, there are two queues at US Customs: US Citizens, and Aliens. All Trump has to do is close down the Aliens line at Customs and send them back to where they came from...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 10:30:00 am
content: I'm not afraid. They will just commit suicide by the time they are halfway through the first Turing test.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 10:35:35 am
content: Yes, I am...1.) No one is respecting Asimov's laws (except for many scientistshttp://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/27/musk-wozniak-hawking-ban-ai-autonomous-weapons).2.) All the big companies (Amazon, Google etc.) start doing things that they really shouldn't do, like building rockets (Amazon, although not directly) or developing autonomous cars, that I do not want to drive (e.g. google starts logging every place you go). Everything has to be linked and now drones start to deliver packages automatically and spying on you (yes, I'm a bit paranoid). BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!!!And at some point these companies will have a "kinda" monopoly, because they somehow get around the cartel office...That is what I'm even more scared of...3.) I a very near future (probably about 20 years), many jobs will be taken over, not the engineering or science ones, but more the jobs the people have that really need money (service/cleaning business etc.). The BBC says that about 35% of the jobs are likely to be taken over by AI in the next 20 years:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34066941

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 11:23:16 am
content: QuoteHumanity already faced this type of problem several times. The Industrial Revolution? The advent of industrial automation simply killed a LOT of jobs - a good CNC mill/lathe can replace half a whole department of skilled master machinists, a lights out . The printing press effectively killed an industry. Another transition would have to come eventually with or without AI, seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lights_out_%28manufacturing%29... for better or worse.QuoteWhy shouldn't they? I'd love an automatic self driving electric car. Rockets? Why not?Quite frankly I'm far more afraid of real stupidity than artificial intelligence.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pm
content: Quote from: TinkerFan on February 29, 2016, 10:35:35 amI can't get over the fact that you mention big companies who build rockets and your example is Amazon???Why not Airbus, Boeing & Lockheed Martin as ULA, Arianespace, SpaceX etc.

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 06:29:13 pm
content: Quote from: Philfreeze on February 29, 2016, 02:31:35 pmBecause Amazon is (at least for me) the company that I worry about most, because they are already involved in a big aspect of our daily life...Tesla aka SpaceX might be the second candidate, but Boeing or Airbus are companies that are already in the business...

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 07:24:01 pm
content: Not at all. What *does* worry me a bit is giving ever more complicated systems more control over critical life/death situations. That's not 'AI', that's just application. I'm inclined to believe that those who have voice concern over it, are either talking about something other than actual 'intelligence', or are speculating for book sales.Much of the recent talk about AI is machine learning and neural networks, which aren't 'intelligent', but a bit different from standard logic that all computers are based on.]]So yes, depends on how you define 'intelligence'. I would be much more worried about a life support machine running on Java.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 08:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: TinkerFan on February 29, 2016, 06:29:13 pmAmazon, really? Google bought Boston Dynamics and is investing a lot of money in autonomous cars, drones, deep learning.If Skynet should become reality in the near future, I'd bet it'll have friendly colors.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:16:54 am
content: Quote from: Philfreeze on February 29, 2016, 09:40:54 amHere's a guy who's familiar with the concept of The Singularity. I've always had the notion that when the machines "wake up", it's us. And if we end up in a Matrix/Terminator style scenario, it will be just another example of one tribe warring it out with another. The usual thing. But I agree that it would be like the next evolutionary step. Humans like to think and act like they're in control, and in a lot of ways we are, but biological imperatives are what really drive this whole mess. Humans are barely even scratching the surface of what our own intelligence is, let alone trying to define AI. A recent study indicated a that your frontal cortex is making decisions 7 seconds before you are consciously aware of it. So much for "free will", eh?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularityhttp://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide

author: Shadetreeprops
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 04:06:06 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 29, 2016, 09:30:25 amright near the end, it look so sad, like a bully, fucking with a baby just wanting to play with its block..as for the walkin in the woods, reminds me of my daughter when she was learning to walk..poor thing, i was getting worried she would lower her intelligents with all the knocks to the head she was taking when she fell down.now at age 3 when she falls, she yells, IM OKAY I DIDNT FALL..LEAVE ME ALONE! and looks very embarassed.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 05:51:28 am
content: QuoteNo, because everything on this planet is subject to finite resources. Neither humans nor machines are exceptions to this rule. This means if AI will becomes a threat, it will be still limited, or being impeded somehow, which can be exploited to our advantage.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:41:57 am
content: Quote from: Shadetreeprops on March 01, 2016, 04:06:06 amYou need to record your daughter yelling that so I can dub it over the Creepy Biped Man (TM) video. It would be adorable. And terrifying. Adorifying, if you will. :3The more I think about it, the more I realize that Creepy Biped Man (TM) really is like a giant creepy toddler that can crush you to death. At least we know Canada will be safe from the Robopoclypse. (They have a lot of hockey sticks there, you see.)

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:08:29 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 27, 2016, 01:05:52 pmi completely agree. and even if AI gets near movie levels than it will probably already be regulated by governments.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:23:24 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on March 01, 2016, 05:51:28 amWell.. I feel the only thing that is infinite on this planet is stupidity.

author: Keridos
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:28:54 am
content: Human intelligence scares me as well. For me it is kind of zynical when people say something like "it's scary when AI's have to decide over life and death situations". Now just think about the biggest idiots you know and how you feel about them being in charge of a life and death situation. We can put failsafes in AI, we can't put failsafes in Human minds (yet). What I will closely watch is the implementation in jurisdiction for those kinds of things like autonomous programs and more complex AI, as that is where we need to have the basic foundation. The actualy implementation is important as well but that one is kind of obvious. Besides a lot of things are already controlled by some kind of automatic systems in a lot of things like aircraft, machinery etc.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 06:12:03 pm
content: Quote from: Keridos on March 01, 2016, 11:28:54 amGood points. An aircraft autopiloting system is probably more trustworthy than the sleep deprived pilot controlling it...and I'd trust any AI over the average politician.Back to the thread: I saw this this morning:Neurogrid: A Mixed-Analog-Digital Multichip System for Large-Scale Neural Simulations

author: TinkerFan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:39:48 am
content: Indeed, that's true. Robots usually don't get stressed or tiered.But there are other robot diseases...

author: bernie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 11:00:13 am
content: There will certainly be a shift in the job market for taxis and haulage once automated cars are fully in use. Warehouses have seen a lot of automation, but the Boston Dynamics robot is impressive.This is a good video by CGP Grey - Humans Need Not ApplyHopefully when you buy a new automated car in the future, you can send it out to work for you when you are not using it