What’s with all this video-learning BS then? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 01:17:43 pm
content: Why are so many “newbies” so fixated and excitable over youtube videos for learning electronics design theory? Instructional videos have their place; eg soldering technique or other manual arts that are not easily conveyed in writing, but for stuff like electrical theory and more abstract concepts it’s a completely inefficient and crap medium.You can literally spend hours vegetating in front of the screen watching all this “educational” clap trap and absorb virtually nothing; not more that what you could learn in half an hour with a chapter of a decent textbox, actually working andthinkingthrough the explained concepts at your own pace – something you cannot do to comparable, or perhaps even meaningful degree watching a video.Typical:“Please Sir, could you please make an op-amp tutorial video! That would be so awesome and I would learn lots! I really want to learn this stuff! I do! I do! More awesome videos pleeeeessssssseeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”Jesus! Then go buy a f&^$ing text book on the topic you truly incurious moron!Well that’s my rant for this evening. Feel much better now.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 02:01:55 pm
content: +1 Like

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 02:12:08 pm
content: I agree to a degree.If you want to learn about op amp theory there are a few very good text books out there, many are available for free online these days.But: I think videos do have their place, too. Not for the basic stuff but for more practical hints and tricks from experienced engineers like our Dave.It is a bit like learning on the job from your colleagues and as such I think it's worthwhile. Also sometimes what is written in a text book is hard to understand and hearing it put differently from another person might suddenly loosen the knot.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 02:23:38 pm
content: It entirely depends on how you learn, which is different for different people.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 02:34:44 pm
content: Books are in real trouble. Although they won't disappear, mainstream use as daily readers and text books by the younger generations is going digital . In s few years books will likely be as scarce as film cameras. The text will still be there in digital form but paper book sales will be very low compared to digital sales. The Digital form will have more charts, tables, photos, and video embedded in it. That part for teaching is not necessarily a bad thing.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 03:00:16 pm
content: Quote from: GK on February 21, 2013, 01:17:43 pmThe why gl to school/university. After all that's just live video....

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 03:26:05 pm
content: I've learned more from videos than what I learned in 4 years of university, even though I was at electronics related courses.The closest I got to doing some actual circuits was running some simulations in spice, everything was theory and hard to understand. The lab was badly equipped and teachers were worried students might break something and they don't have the budget to fix it... for example they wouldn't let students touch some stepper motors because the driver boards for them were too expensive.To give you an example of what kind of school I did, a mid-term project was designing a transformer with the only information being input and output voltage and current - had to search the library for books made in the '80s to pick types of wires (enameled, with extra insulation or not, double enameled, types of laminations, types of isulation between the laminations).. and naturally being Romania and former communist country, these books only had Russian standards of laminations and wires and I had to approximate a lot, and go back to pick other material types and redo all formulas when the transformer resulted in being 2 meters in diameter, just to make this transformer output the voltage and current the teacher demanded...It was no pleasure, stupid, just theory that no longer applied to today's world, I was building an obsolete transformer, that I couldn't build in real life even if I wanted to.I watched quite a lot of videos and some made me understand better some concepts like impedance, reactance, oscillators, I learned quite a few things about oscilloscopes from w2aew's channel ... the videos have some value.A book can often be too scary for beginners and the formulas can also be a bit intimidating, just as datasheets can be. Some beginners can't even understand how to follow a datasheet ... for example, I'll admit years ago I couldn't understand a simple datasheet like MC34063 that Dave did a video on.There's values and units used in formulas that aren't quite so obvious, that the person reading has to choose from a graph on another page or stuff like this, so videos like Dave's "design a switching power supply" can help quite a bit.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 03:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 21, 2013, 03:00:16 pmAs some else has already remarked, this entirely depends on the student. I am absolutely incapable of absorbing formal knowledge from lectures or videos. I watch Dave's videos (and similar channels on YouTube) because they inspire me to think and dream about engineering and find practical purpose in the theories that I study. Theory is usually easy for me to understand, my mind easily finds sense and order in abstractions and sees patterns in examples so I generally find it much more efficient to learn theory from a book in a fraction of the time it would take me to go to the lectures and sift through the verbal obfuscation while trying to focus with tons of uninterested students causing general distraction. That said, I also watch videos about theory to learn tacit knowledge that didn't make it into book form. This is why I haven't set foot in a lecture hall since my first three freshmen's weeks, just signed up for the exams and showed up.I also find typical university education rather deficient, but that's another topic.Apparently if people demand more videos, they must derive some pleasure from watching them. Since this is so insanely subjective, it doesn't make much (if any) sense at all to say "I can't learn from videos so nobody else can, either, and they are incurious morons for wanting more". Some people learn visually by looking at tons of playful examples drawn in colorful lovely ways (eye-candy basically, to offset the pain of having to wrap your mind around something you are entirely unfamiliar with).

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 06:31:20 pm
content: Quote from: GK on February 21, 2013, 01:17:43 pmCan you make a video to explain this ? I don't want to read the hole thing O0%-B

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 07:11:12 pm
content: Is it because these "newbies" were raised on videos? I dunno.I wasn't allowed to watch much TV when I was a kid and there were no videos then. The electronics I have learned, and still learn, I prefer to do by messing with components on a breadboard.I have seen some interesting videos, which I then take the ideas and experiment with using components. I do think that many videos have a low content quotient, but that's inevitable given that it's amateur video.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 08:46:18 pm
content: I think, it's the entertainment aspect which sort of lacks in most electronic books.It would be interesting though, how much information a video-learner really pics up vs a textbook-learner.I have this private theory that watching a video makes it is easier to fool yourself to think you have understood something because of the livlier visual input.In my opinion real learning is in doing electronics no matter where you get your idears from, a video or a textbook.While doing electronics i personally prefere texts (analog or digital) for looking things up. Searching through a video is a pain.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 08:48:21 pm
content: As has been said, people can learn in vastly different ways.Video (and by extension live lectures or tutorials) can provide essential feedback in terms of the way material is presented. Emphasis (perhaps subconscious) on certain words or concepts, the enthusiasm for the topic can transfer easily etc. All that human interaction stuff.As for why people ask "can you do this tutorial etc" it's because they like the way that person presents material. The same thing can happen with books.If you like the way an author explains stuff, then you want more material from that author on different subjects, and not some other crap that you simply did not understand or "click to" for whatever reason.I'm sure we have all had classes where the prescribed textbook was just crap. Not because the content is actually crap, but just because that wasn't the way our particular mind was wired to absorb and understand that info. Some will love it, some will hate it.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 08:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: XynxNet on February 21, 2013, 08:46:18 pmI think that's probably more the case with the fast paced couple of minute highly polished scripted summary videos tutorial style.And perhaps less the case with more detailed rambling off-the-cuff style like mine and others. Likely because there is more information spread over a longer time, where the repeating or emphasis of certain words or concepts for example can often get lost in the rehearsed or scripted videos.But whether which approach is more efficient in the end, or how they compare to a textbook approach, who knows?Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. The more material out there, the better. Be it tutorials or just entertainment.Most of my videos are more the "infotainment" style, and I've said before that I think most people watch it for the entertainment aspect. And to me, if I'm keeping people interested and enthusiastic about electronics, then that's just as good, if not better than providing the worlds best detailed right-to-the-point opamp tutorial.After all, I can't recall any textbook that I would readily describe as "entertaining", that I'd read just for entertainment and interest value. The electronics magazines were arguably more infotainment style, and video a lot more so again with individual personalities and all their nuances becoming involved.Dave.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 09:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 21, 2013, 03:58:07 pmSwitch university immediately !The idea of having a lecturer is to provide you with all the info that is NOT in the book.I know courses where, if you don't show up for the lectures and only read the book you are guaranteed flunk the exam. only 25% of the questions comes out of the book.... The lecturer tells you at the beginning of the course : the book is to read at home. what is done during lecturing is feed you the missing bits...

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 09:20:01 pm
content: It also depends on the subject matter.Recently I have been revising and learning electrical theory and it doesn't take long before math with lots of squiggly lines and subcripts starts creeping in. It has been 30+ years since I studied math and have forgotten nearly all of it so I 've been following math tutorials/lessons on youtube and have to tell you its been fantastic.A text book will go through a derivation or proof from one line to the next and you have to spend time trying to ascertain what simplification/expansion has been used to get from one line to the next. This can be very difficult in complex formula where you are clueless or rusty on the technique used.In most of the lecture and screen type vids I have watched you see the person going through the manual motions of how its done, if they mention something you have'nt seen before, you hit pause and look it up or take notes for further research later on.The key, for me, is to take notes and at the end get pencli to paper and try to write down what you have just watched as a re-explanation to your self. This re-inforces what you have just watched as unfortunately you don't get reams of example questions to practice on like you do in a real class room

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 09:38:05 pm
content: I think they are great. There are some good videos out there - some that clearly explain something, other very entertaining, ideally they do both.So much talent on the internet.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 10:10:47 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 21, 2013, 09:18:36 pmIt's worse than that, actually, because there is less done in the lectures than the books actually contain. I can't change universities, though. For anything better I would have to leave this country and sign up for an Ivy league US school or go to the UK. That's beyond my financial means at the moment. I am at an elite German university. The only "lectures" worth going to are the practical courses, because you just can't learn that from a book. I can't say that I don't welcome the free time, though. I prefer to learn by myself from various sources. You can largely compensate the lack of tacit knowledge conveyed through a good lecture by studying from many books on the same topic simultaneously.

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 10:19:39 pm
content: I disagree with the OPJust have a look at the video lectures of cornell by bruce land on youtube.Beats learning on your own but is short of sitting in front of the man in class.Any medium of information can only present finite amount of matter pertaining to the subject.It is again largely subjective based on the subject,the language in the book, the authors focus, the audience he intends the information for, and the individual themselves.That's precisely why we have multiple authors writing on the same subject from different points of view,in varying degrees of expression trying to connect to a specific segment of audience.Videos lectures and youtube videos are similar. They cater to different classes of audience, and lets not forgetthey are individuals expressing themselves. There is bound to be difference in the material, style, focus etc.Like we have different opinions among people, so will be the videos, the content of videos andthe opinionsof people on the videos.It is certainly informative to see so many individuals present the same information in different styles and guess what!!I learn something different from each one of them!! Thats just the way it is..Dont like a certains individuals way of presentation - too bad, search for one whom you can identify with!If a individual is interested in acquiring knowledge, class or video lecture or books does not matter at all. They would eventually find a way to acquire the information thanks to the proliferation of technology and easily available media online.MIT or local community college does not make a difference!For those more interested in a degree, thats a different matter....

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 11:18:13 pm
content: Not to get too deep into it, but I agree with the info-tainment idea. I watch the videos because it's mostly stuff that I already find interesting, and sometimes I'm introduced to a new concept. I usually don't feel like I really "learned" from the videos per-say, but if that new concept is something else I might be interested in I will usually go seek out more in depth information later. It's all about exposure.In fact that's my favorite thing about this forum. "Electronics" is such a wide field that even if you are a professional in one area, whole other areas can still be black magic. Having that sampling of different types of fields here provides some great chances for exposure to something you might not know about. Even the beginning questions are great. I know I've been embarrassed to not know the answer to some of them but I still get to learn from the answers others give and go look up more info on my own to fill in the blanks. It's like having a "virtual engineering department" to pull information from.Plus its a good way to take a break at work. New tag line? "EEVBlog, making engineers everywhere a little less productive, one video at a time

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2013, 11:37:23 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 21, 2013, 09:18:36 pmIs making bad lecture notes supposed to be a good thing now?Lectures are there because you can ask questions and because it requires less discipline than trying to self study IMO. Hiding information from the students by only putting it on the blackboard and not in the written course documentation is just a pure dick move.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 12:27:50 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--It rather depends on what is in the video, I suspect. Many folks cannot easily attend brick and mortar colleges. I learned Trigonometry and Calculus by buying used textbooks. I found that textbooks often omit small but important details. So I would buy three different text books, and often, something that was unclear in one was better explained in the other. Watching a lecture, even if it is on video, can often make things much easier. Sure and begorra it will all be alright, if you will only come to class, unless there is no class to go to. Problems are sometimes incompletely described and, occasionally an answer in the back of the book is wrong. If you cannot obtain an old Professors Copy, you may wait a long time to find out if your answers to the even numbered problems are correct. Sometimes listening to someone who has already been there, allows you to better understand a difficult problem. A Richard Feynman lecture from 50 years ago is not invalid just because you can see it on YouTube. Dave gives the quick version of things, which can be a lot of help, but not if you have absolutely no math and no book learning at all, its not quite monkey see monkey do, well at least most of it is not. There are a lot of really mediocre text books around. Do we really need brand new Geometry and Trig books every year. I would really hate to learn that obsolete 10 year old Trig, wouldn't you? Lets wait till somebody squares the circle or trisects an angle, or something."Imitation is the sincerest form of television."Fred Allen 1894 - 1956Best RegardsClear Ether

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 12:33:23 am
content: Totally agree, I have been in Uni for the first year and found video tutorials and video copies of lectures really very helpful. My 30 years past as a technician required me to learn purely from text material and found this harder to absorb. For some they can use text book but I also feel the practical aspect of electronics is better shown visually than via text book.This is why Daves videos are a godsend to all who want to learn the practical aspect of electronics. In my case they have been a great refresher as I have been running a company instead of proper electronic work for the last 15 years.In my second year I have just received my blackboard youtube op-amp theory video and find great theory great theory explanation. -EECE 251 - RC Circuits tutorial 03unique voice.Quote from: EEVblog on February 21, 2013, 08:48:21 pm

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 12:54:57 am
content: Personally I find video just another information resource, among all the others - textbooks, magazines, internet articles, databooks, etc. Each has their own strong points, and in the case of videos the strong points (if done well) are the visual detail (I don't know about you, but my brain works better with images than with text), lots of contextual information, and in many cases historical interest.Ultimately though, to learn anything well I have to actually do something experimental with it, using my hands. Otherwise it just doesn't tend to stick.One advantage physical books have, that beats videos by a mile - in 10 or 20 years, when you've forgotten some detail and need to refresh, the book is still sitting on your shelf. Good luck finding that fancy video again (and playing it) in a couple of decades.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 01:10:33 am
content: Again, people learn in different ways. We've all heard that said.Since age 6 we have been learning through "video"...or rather just going to school. I do agree that a good book is very helpful, but a good video can be equally as helpful.I've made two videos and they've been on very basic subjects. You may criticize me for making those, sure. However, I think my videos have their place. Will my videos be in the greatest depth? No. But I do believe they may lay solid groundwork because you can hear me emphasize certain points or perhaps make something more clearly than say a textbook could.However, I totally agree that you can "vegetate" in front of a video very easily. Just as you could in a college lecture or a high school math class. If people want to learn from videos they should treat them not as some sort of magical link that directly injects knowledge into your brain, but rather as a "class". ie. You should take notes on videos!

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 06:29:38 am
content: Agree almost, to "all of the above".Something not mentioned, or I missed in the posts so far is the type of video world like Dave makes.EEVblog videos are interactive. I'm not sure if he has a live chat room like the twit.tv shows, but asynchronously interactive.In a lecture hall, a few questions can be addressed, but then the day ends and new already molded classes take their place.In Dave's world, we can reply to his shows, ask questions, yell at him etc, and it affects his future shows.Example was the poor flogged to death project of returning a LeCroy scope from its grave. But, I watched every minute of appended attempts.As for infotainment, my wife even tolerates the show on the main display because of his accent, my enthusiasm of pausing stuff to point out interesting items, (yeah, right), and things that turn both our heads to the set like: It sticks out like dog's balls!.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 06:43:21 am
content: Dave's the engineers version of 'The crocodile hunter'.Croc hunter would go : remember the time i stuck my finger in a crocs cloaca.Dav goes : remember when i stuck my soldering iron in the Lecroy scope ?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 07:28:17 am
content: Heh.Let's hope the similarity doesn't extend to 'dies horribly with a scope probe through the chest'.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 09:30:15 am
content: Quote from: jh15 on February 22, 2013, 06:29:38 amI would be dragged out of the house in tar and feathers.

author: vk3yedotcom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 10:18:18 am
content: I'm biased having produced videos but I'd have to disagree. I'll give 5 reasons why.1. If you're demonstrating stuff nothing beats video. I'm thinking test gear, electronic music, audio, receivers etc.When we had to learn everything out of books you'd have to imagine stuff like how an audio filter or receiver should sound (assuming you were isolated from other builders). You might not necessarily know if you've built or bought a good one. Now there's heaps of comparisons and tests (good and bad) on video.2. I once drew and explained a transmitter circuit . 30 minutes long - I thought it would put people to sleep. But oddly enough it got many views and sparked interest worldwide. Obviously some people like this style, even though personally I'd rather a circuit on a static website. eg3. Demonstrating safety. Better to see and hear an exploding capacitor than read about it in a text book. Even things like dangling wires can hurt so avoid trip-prone lengths, eg 2 min into the following:4. There can be the touch of theatre and the unpredictable. Such as when the dog went for the apparatus being tested, the operator and then the camera. Again it could be described as a safety message, eg:5. There's also what some would call the soft stuff like motivation and inspiration. If you aren't motivated you don't decide electronics is worth learning or keeping going with. So you don't. I'm sure Dave has had comments to the effect that his video encouraged someone build / develop something.The counter argument of all this is that by videoing stuff you're reducing the mystery of creating something (even if an explosion) you've never seen happen before. However as far as we know smell remains safe from transmission.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2013, 03:45:22 pm
content: Different data types are best with different playback formats, same with knowledge. If motion is key, videos; if static then photos or text. The problem is misuse of these, using information best presented as static in video format and vice versa. For example showing a transient capture on a scope is best with video, showing a parts list is best as text, showing a PCB is best with a photo. Video lecturers, IMHO, are totally misapplication of knowledge, that is best just written down and read, and the purpose of class thereafter is to be interactive, bringing up questions about the text since no one can answer that but the expert or teacher.When speakers/lecturers are speaking too slow or too fast, you can control the speed if you have such a player, so you can go at your own pace. You can easily repeat items if you didn't get it or need to go slower, its up to the viewer or bypass what you already know. I also can play or step forward or backward videos to examine items as needed.Dave's tear down videos are kind of a hybrid, he essentially gives a "fly by executive summary" where static photos and text could suffice, but the video does it faster because of HD format. Instead of multiple static photos, a run through in high resolution is similar to many hi-res photos that are overlaid on each other, when I need to detail some issue he brings up quickly, such as reading part numbers, I freeze or screen grab the frame.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 01:27:14 am
content: You guys are forgetting that youtube is the perfect mechanism to get young people interested in electronics. I have started electronics by watching the videos of photonicinduction, eevblog, and afrotechmods. And look where I am now! Broke and desperate for more test equipment

author: Chalky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 02:34:09 am
content: Quote from: GK on February 21, 2013, 01:17:43 pmI'll tell you why WE do it - we can't afford to go buy textbooks on every subject we're interested in. Send me the appropriate cheque and I'll stop viewing Dave's wonderful videos?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 02:52:54 am
content: Quote from: Chalky on February 23, 2013, 02:34:09 amJust in case anyone wanting to buy books doesn't know, try abebooks.comIt's a world-wide co-op of 2nd hand booksellers, with a unified stock database and ordering system. I find it excellent.For instance:http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=%22the+art+of+electronics%22Prices there are around $22, since it's such a well known book. Many others can be found a lot cheaper.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:09:34 am
content: Well, if someone is really motivated, there are "less legal" ways to get a book.Art of Electronics is available on torrent sites, and at 736 pages it would cost you maybe 5$ in paper and about 3$ in toner to print it, even less if you print 2 pages on one side (50% zoom).Not condoning piracy... but if you don't have money it's not like the author has lost a sale. If it makes you feel better you can think of it as borrowing the book from the local library for a few weeks.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:25:43 am
content: Quote from: mariush on February 23, 2013, 03:09:34 amAssuming, if someone's that poor that they have a printer, and it's capable of regularly handling print loads like that. Though it is likely they'd have the spare time to do the printing, then binding it somehow. Don't forget the cost of the ring binder or whatever's needed to hold it together.Personally I prefer nicely bound books, some of which include color. With titles on spines, and sensible sizes.Also, good luck finding obscure older works as torrents.Recent example I bought: book $1.50, postage $12 from USA. A colorful travelogue of Hong Kong, from the 1970s.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:37:18 am
content: I agree with you partially.But the argument about a printer being expensive doesn't stand, unless you really need color.Black and white laser printers are as low as 60$ nowadays:http://www.newegg.com/Laser-Printers/SubCategory/ID-630?Order=PRICEIn general, they come with a 800-1000 page toner, which usually lasts for about 1200-1500 pages if you print with toner saving methods.Official toner refills are expensive, but ebay has lots of toner refills cheap, usually 5-15$ for about 3000 pages. For some printers, you may have to get an initial refill kit that's more expensive, as it has some reset chips or hardware that has to be installed in the printer but after that... toner is super cheap.My Samsung ML1710 has original 1000 page toner, probably printed about 4000 pages on it. The 3000 page toner refill is 100$ at retail but it has new drum as well. Unofficial refill bottles are about 5$ for 5000 pages (and this particular model doesn't need reset chips or hacks, i just pop out the cap and pour toner in it)So yeah, it's expensive at 60$ or more, but it's something that lasts at least 1-2 years, so it's not really a big investment if you consider how those 60$ spread over time.I can understand you want binding, nice colors etc, but I'm just saying this is a good alternative compared to buying the book used (as it may come with torn pages, or highlights, or grease spots, bad cover, the previous owner may have been a smoker etc etc)

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:52:12 am
content: I tried printing out TI's "Op Amps for Everyone". After I had the entire bloody thing printed, I realized it was pretty much a water soluble boat anchor that took an evening to to make and 1/4 of a tank of ink.Print quality was subpar. Paper didn't have quite the same feel, and most of all it was a real pain in the ass to read unless you had some way of binding it. And at that point, you might as well just buy a used copy of it. Some of this is my fault, but personally I think it's not worth the effort. I think the same thing about DIY PCBs, unless your project would cost a fortune at a PCB house.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 04:10:11 am
content: Well, this is really getting off topic, so I'll keep it short.It's partially your fault...You've used inkjet, laser printers work much better and the toner doesn't smear or spreads if it gets wet.Normal copier paper is heavier than most book paper, but there are various paper styles around. Here, the default copier paper is market as 80 grams per square meter (or some other unit), on Amazon I see they're marked as 24lbs, 32lbs... I don't know what's equivalent.The point is there's all kinds of paper, so you can buy lighter paper to make the print feel more like a book. I can easily go to the mall and get 60grams paper, or 72 grams paper..Those things that make holes in paper are cheap (under 10$) and super easy to use, they basically come with stoppers at the ends and methods to set the "paper depth" so the holes are cut constantly at the same place... Ring binders are also super cheapAlternatively you can put the stack of paper under a press, put some string through the holes, add glue, print cover on thicker paper or cardboard and you have a book:

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 04:18:08 am
content: Cool for sure, and believe me I looked up "how to bind a book" too, but as I was doing that, I just felt (personally) that I was going through quite a bit of work, and it was detracting from the whole learning electronics things. I definitely respect the art of making books, I just think there comes a point where you might say "I'll just suck it up and buy it".Oh and I'm well aware my method wasn't ideal. If you have all of the right tools, I'm sure the result would be much more pleasant, but for me, I'll stick to printing out app notes, and that might be about it.

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 04:37:16 am
content: Hey you guys get a room/thread.Check out sites likehttp://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/for a depressing read, but wiil save you money and educate you about printers.I am depressed about books being pay per read on a maxipad or Kindle, licensed, you do not own, your kids don't find on shelves, and no more dusty books to be found by future generations to learn from.Books Kindle at Fahrenheit 451.Now back to the video stuff, where I want learn a lot about doing good quality videos from my hackerspace.Mainly the depth of field and 3d depth of Dave's cameras. Just look at his title picture, everything is sharp, but it has depth, maybe due to low pixel/highh photon well depth?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2013, 03:51:08 pm
content: Quote from: GK on February 21, 2013, 01:17:43 pmI don't understand how you can come to that conclusion given a few silly comments from people who aren't really interested in electronics; If they were truly interested they would just go off and research the subject in more depth.Textbooks and reading is a relatively new concept in our evolution; for the most part our brain is highly evolved for visual learning; for example, the world record for memorizing the order of a shuffled deck of 52 playing cards as fast as possible is 21.90 seconds! to do this requires a lot of training but they use something like the "Mnemonic dominic system" which is based on creating mental visual pictures that tell a story in an interesting way. So it's no surprise when we all like teachers who teach in a interesting way, rather than make us have to read a dull textbook all the time.On the other hand there are people who haven't adapted very well to the concept of "textbook" based learning; My wife actually works at the local college as a learning mentor for students with learning difficulties such as dyslexia and dyscalculia etc;I personally are very appreciative to anyone who takes the time to produce good factual online video in any delivery style!

author: PeteInTexas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 05:32:35 am
content: Video is an inefficient medium. It simply cannot match the information density offered by textbooks. Think of your favorite electronics text; now imagine learning about every bit of information in that in a video. It will take more time to watch and understand the video than reading and understanding the text, because, among other techniques, you can scan and skim and still have decent comprehension. Can't do that with video. Skip a minute and you're lost.What text demands though is a higher ability to focus and concentrate, something that is fast disappearing in today's average brain power.

author: Pentium100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 06:12:06 am
content: Generally video works better for me. I can watch a video and understand what is in it pretty well. A text is more difficult to understand, then again, it is written differently (if someone made a transcript (with relevant pictures) of one of Dave's videos it would probably be almost as good as the video for me, but usually the texts are much more dull than a Dave's video and that makes me fall asleep). A good text is useful for when I need to know something in detail, but I usually cannot remember those details, so I use the text to look them up when I need them. I can remember sounds better than text, so a video is much easier to remember.As for information density - sure, texts have more information and I'll use them when I need that information (as opposed to general understanding).Live lectures are all over the range - some are great, and some are the lecturer just reading from a book in the most boring voice possible.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2013, 10:53:59 am
content: Quote from: jh15 on February 23, 2013, 04:37:16 amOh yeah, that's another whole issue. Seriously, some of the bastards pushing for extreme copyright/DRM-locked computer hardware need to be put up against a wall and shot. For crimes against Humankind and knowledge.Actually, my mistake. Not 'some of them'. ALL of them.While it's true that Kindle 'paper' screens are rather nice, and it's possible to jailbreak them to run opensource reader software, and no-DRM texts, I certainly won't be buying one until they come in Open Hardware and Software form from the supplier. Which I expect to happen ... any never, ever now.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 02:29:54 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 23, 2013, 02:52:54 amYou need to be careful with Abebooks. A number of times I've seen them come up with prices from thebookdepository that are $10-20 higher than what you can buy directly off thebookdepository website (I have no idea why.) So I've got a bookmark to a few sites. When I find the book I want, I just copy the ISBN and paste it into each site to quickly review their actual price on the same book.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 04:05:48 am
content: Quote from: Harvs on February 25, 2013, 02:29:54 amIt's just like auction sites. Book sellers will post whatever they think they can get for them. Good deals and bad deals can be found. Myself, I usewww.bookfinder.comIt includes Abebooks in the search.

author: Anquietas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 02:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on February 25, 2013, 04:05:48 amWhen I find a book on AbeBooks I am interested in buying I usually look up the seller in Google and contact them directly. I have done this seven times already and five times I got nice 10%-25% discounts for buying directly from them and not through the AbeBooks store. This is always worth a try.

author: JackOfVA
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2013, 08:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: PeteInTexas on February 24, 2013, 05:32:35 am100% correct.A spoken presentation runs 125-150 words per minute - Dave might be a bit faster in bursts, but I suspect even his average is in this range.A typical book will run 250-500 words per page depending on size and format, with textbooks running towards the upper end of this range.A 30 minute video from Dave has perhaps 4000 spoken words, corresponding to 8 to 12 written pages.But, it's a worse ratio than this because a well written book or technical article will avoid the pauses, junk words, etc. 30 minutes of video is closer to 6 pages of well written and edited text. And, I don't think Dave starts with a script writer - winging it makes for a more entertaining format but reduces the information density.On the opposite side, graphics and showing how to do something - such as Dave's tear down reviews where it's not always obvious how to open an instrument case - are areas where video is far more efficient than the written word, even with drawings or photos.Ultimately, in most electrical engineering studies, there's no substitute for the math - and I can't see that being more efficiently done through video. Regardless how the concept is presented, though, in order to fully understand it you still have to work problems and produce the correct answers.And, there's certainly a place for open ended questions to be asked of students and open end assignments, including those that certain of failure. The purpose is to show that not all the answers are "in the book" and that original thinking and creativity is an essential part of being a successful engineer.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2013, 05:25:51 am
content: Other factors with information are cost of storage, reliability of access, and convenience of access.It's very easy to just assume that things on the net now will always be accessible. But this is a very dangerous assumption. So many people seem to assume this, but I think it's very, very naive. Wait and see.For entertainment, it's only important in a cultural sense. Future generations should have access to the entertainment works of the past, but it wouldn't be a total disaster if they don't.But for technical matters, itmatters. The viability of technological civilization depends on the accessibility of technical information, to whoever needs it. And itwillbe a disaster if we lose this. (I personally suspect a global crash of technological civilization now would very likely result in death of almost all life on Earth for millions of years, due to all the radioactive materials that would end up entering the ecosystem, but that's just me.)For electronic forms of information such as videos, ebooks, etc, there is a hidden but quite high cost of storage. That's because as yet we do not haveanyform of storage media that will reliably last indefinitely. CDs, DVDs, hard disks, etc, all have quite short MTBFs. As little as 10 years sometimes. It's just not good enough. So to truly 'archive' any digital media it has to be carried in multiple copies and regularly transcribed from one media to another. For any large scale archive that's a huge effort.Videos are particularly bad in this respect because of the sheer size of the data files. Video is a very inefficient way to store information, in terms of bits-per-knowledge.Reliability of storage on the net - we can't quantify that, because the net is so new and hasn't yet had to endure any serious political weather changes. Though, the DRM takedown demands plague is pretty suggestive of how things will turn out.Convenience of access - this one of the reasons I don't much like video as an information source. It's darned hard to look stuff up in video, because it isn't really a random access medium. Typically no index, no ability to grep the content, and no way to find specific details other than just skimming through until you find what you want. For this, books are vastly superior. Especially for ebooks since you can electronically search the content.I'm always amazed when I see people throwing out old books, especially data books. But I don't bitch about it, I just grab the books.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2013, 08:52:51 am
content: Quote from: Anquietas on February 21, 2013, 03:58:07 pmNo it doesn’t depend on the student; this whole line of argumentation doesn’t make any sense.The problem is, with a cook-book approach to the discipline, one can go surprisingly far in electronics with only superficial knowledge. You can design and build a whole heap of shit without a thorough understanding of how any of it really works. If you can read an IC applications datasheet and apply the provided formula chances are high that you can design even a functionally complex PLL control system, or even build a fully functioning SMPS or a DDS-based function generator or whatever. You needn’t have the first clue about control systems theory or sampling theory or anything else of that nature.Reading through the responses to my opening rant, there seems to be a general disconnect, or perhaps just a plain failure to grasp the distinction between knowledge and understanding. If you are too lazy for textbooks and your bar of personal satisfaction isn’t raised particularly high, sure, you may enthusiastically gain enough of the former (knowledge) to get your jollies by watching YouTube videos, but you will definitely gain sweet FA of the latter (understanding). The latter only comes to a degree worth writing home about with a concerted, dedicated and long-term effort on your own part; lots of textbook hunting, lots of reading and lots of practice by means of repetitive and iterative problem solving. And it goes without saying that those adverse to textbook self-education are well behind on the knowledge front as well.If, as a “student”, such is beyond you, then no amount of factoid-absorption via YouTube videos will ever magically and efficiently transform you into someone with the smarts and understanding to devise (just for example) a truly better PLL control system method, rather than just another someone capable, if at all, of cobbling together something of practical utility that works, drawing from the already established state of the art.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2013, 10:37:31 am
content: Quote from: JackOfVA on February 25, 2013, 08:39:52 pmYes. Watching a video, for the most part the best you can hope to do is to keep up and forget as little as possible. Comparisons have been drawn between video presentations and a lecture environment. I don't think the comparison is valid. Perhaps things have degraded a lot since I was last in school, but I've never sat through a moderately advanced lecture on electronics theory that was not structured to be simply supplementary to textbook learning. The principle goal of the lecturer is to simply ensure that the students are given sufficient resources and direction/guidance to fulfill the learning objectives outlined in the curriculum, the scope of which is usually, by necessity, pretty restrictive.