Counterfeit IGBT module - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 07:48:23 am
content: Hi,I need to replace an IGBT module in my inverter. It has already been discontinued so I purchased an "original" one from non-authorized seller. It is obvious the casing of the module comes from different mold and when I open the module, there is different silicon inside.Is there any chance the IGBT module is original?

author: moffy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 09:54:51 am
content: I don't know about its validity but I did find the INFINEON FP40R12KT3BPSA1 recommended as a possible replacement:https://au.element14.com/infineon/fp40r12kt3bpsa1/igbt-module-1-2kv-55a-press-fit/dp/3703586Again I haven't checked the various specs or pinouts but it might be worth a look if you are stuck.

author: PDP-1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 10:19:35 pm
content: I got a suspicious IGBT module a couple of years ago, the case didn't look at all like what was in the datasheet.Email or call Infineon with the part number on the package, they can confirm if it's real or just a string of gibberish numbers on a sticker. They are pretty keen on stamping out counterfeit parts with their name stuck on the side.If they determine that the part is not real, I'd recommend reporting it to the Electronic Resellers Association International (https://www.erai.com/information_sharing_high_risk_parts), they're an industry-sponsored group that tracks down electronic component counterfeiters. You just fill in a form and maybe get a phone call from them with some follow-up questions and they do the rest.It's bad that unscrupulous vendors would try to pass off any bogus electronic components, but it's even worse when it's a high power device where failure of the mystery part can lead to real harm or injury.

author: Phoenix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2023, 11:08:23 pm
content: It's quite possible that the production process has been updated (i.e. the new mold) and possibly even slightly different silicon given Infineon would need to have incorporated the Eupec part into their production.But it's worth an email to Infineon to confirm - if they care about a 1 off customer.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 12:04:31 am
content: Does the new one look like they cheaped out (smaller dies, thinner bond wires, etc.)? If it doesn't, it's probably OK.Fake transistors are notorious for containing smaller die and can't meet the original specs.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 12:22:50 am
content: I would not straight assume it's counterfeit just because it's different. Huge difference in production date, company was acquired by Infenion in the meantime. There easily could have been design revision.

author: PDP-1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 03:40:16 am
content: Quote from: Phoenix on December 18, 2023, 11:08:23 pmThe fake IGBTs I got were the only four parts that we ever intended to buy from Infineon. I sent them a picture of the serial number and of the component and they responded to say it was not a real part within a business day. They have a real business interest in tracking down fakes regardless of if you are a minor customer or not (or at least they did five years ago when my incident happened).

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 06:36:56 am
content: Yeah, different internal design doesn't mean much, just that it's not an absolutely identical part; but you already knew that from the outside markings and difference in date.Die size seems pretty similar; I don'tseea problem here. Even if it is a counterfeit, it seems like they went to a lot of trouble using correctly sized chips and adequate bonding. Bondwires anyway. I suppose the die attach could be bogus, or the chips not the right rating (but the right size)? Either problem will be made pretty obvious once you put the thing in and turn it on.And you have an internal photo with magic smoke still inside, so, aside from potentially further damaging the controls in the process, there doesn't seem to be harm in giving it a try?Do keep that in mind, though; blown transistors almost always take out the gate drivers, and maybe further stuff than that. This might be only the most visible damage, and you need to check everything before giving it another go.Tim

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 08:20:40 am
content: Thanks guys. I already contacted Infineon yesterday with all the pictures I have. No reply at the moment.I have two failed BSM35GP120 modules and fortunately for me both have rectifying diodes failed, transistors (at least internal body diodes) seem to be ok.

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 01:38:18 pm
content: I got reply from Infineon. Allegedly, it is difficut to tell whether they are fakes or not. Just a reminder, they have a picture of inside of the module clearly showing the silicon design. They are not very helpful unfortunately.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 11:57:23 pm
content: Quote from: gaminn on December 19, 2023, 01:38:18 pmIn other words, compared to the poster above who got a "not genuine" response immediately, it seems yours may truly be genuine or close enough that they can't distinguish; and perhaps there are some legal issues around asserting authenticity, so they are biased to call out fakes whenever they can, but don't want to say the opposite.

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 08:35:57 am
content: Yes, I think the same.Meanwhile, I managed to thermally destroy one "fake" BSM35GP120, injecting 100W+ power loss to one IGBT for some time without mounting it on heatsink. However, when mounted on the heatsink, one IGBT handled 120 W power loss, die reaching approx 95°C.I also opened another module I have FP50R12KS4C, it has different style of dies also.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 08:42:08 am
content: Well, legally or not, but also just that without traceable documentation or unique identifying characteristics verifiable on file, "possibly correct" is as correct as you can get. So, it's good science to say what they have.Tim

author: PDP-1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 08:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: gaminn on December 19, 2023, 01:38:18 pmInteresting. They were able to tell me my parts were fake since the serial numbers on the side were not in their production database. Also, as I mentioned, the packaging did not look anything like what was on the datasheet.Infineon has a list of authorized distributors on their website, buying from one of them should nearly guarantee getting real parts next time. I'm in the USA and now by Infineon stuff from Galco.com after getting burned once before.

author: gaminn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 01:02:55 pm
content: I asked again and now they confirmed it is counterfeit module. FYI it is BSM35GP120 module which has been discontinued already. I have no other chance then to try aftermarket/counterfeit products if I want to repair my inverter. I will have to spent some time with testing repaired inverter to be at least partially sure the inerter will last some time.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 01:39:22 pm
content: Quote from: gaminn on December 25, 2023, 01:02:55 pmIt actually looks exactly the same as FP40R12KT3BPSA1 moffy mentioned, except it having some pins placed in different positions. So most likely it's some other Infenion part that was relabeled.EDIT: likely isn't relabeled Infenion part as I found similar Chinese IGBT modules that look 100% like real Infenion parts besides marking. This for examplehttps://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/IGBTs_JUNSHINE-KWMFP40R12NS3_C780100.html

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 02:04:56 pm
content: IMHO this counterfeit part likely has the same voltage current ratings as original. EDIT: counterfeit also could be relabeled 25A parthttps://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-FP25R12KT4_B15-DS-v02_00-en_de.pdf?fileId=db3a30432d9b3066012da33f29623575I suggest searching for FP35R12KT4 in catalogs and checking datasheets for variant with closest matchhttps://www.digikey.lv/en/products/filter/transistors/igbts/igbt-modules/297?s=N4IgTCBcDaIGIAUDMBWASgRjAaQCoBYQBdAXyAFP35R12KT4_B15 seems to have about the same specs (except better saturation voltage) and the same pinout.https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/3204742.pdf

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 03:18:18 pm
content: Also you could use cheaper IXYS parthttps://www.digikey.lv/en/products/detail/ixys/MIXA40WB1200TED/4321808?s=N4IgTCBcDaILIEkAaBBALABgOoCECMYGGAKgKIAiIAugL5A

author: PDP-1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 09:38:23 pm
content: Galco.com shows seven BSM35GP120 in stock if you are in a market that they ship to.