Blimey Some Good Advice From The Not So Nutter  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 11:32:01 pm
content: photon shows those silly voltage detector screwdriversthe type contains a neon lamp takes very little current to light, uses the user's body capacitance to earth ground to complete the circuit.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 11:36:54 pm
content: Yeah, saw this.How about that other yellow/red screwdriver huh?Sure took some stick before it failed.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2013, 11:37:37 pm
content: Quote from: Sionyn on June 17, 2013, 11:32:01 pmSo? I knew that in 1975 when I first played with one. Simple, straightforward, no moving parts. What's the big deal?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 12:01:12 am
content: The big deal is that higher voltages will pass straight through into you.They're design is a terrible idea.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 12:10:59 am
content: Do you really want to trust your safety to that cheap little resistor and your assumption that it's free of conductive debris? My god, they don't even bother to pot the thing so dust or moisture can't short across the resistor...

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 03:13:59 am
content: Quote from: Psi on June 18, 2013, 12:01:12 amThe screwdriver in the video was typical dangerous cheap Chinese shit. Standard 1/4W resistor barely rated at 250v for normal operation never mind where failure risks life. Not sure if I have one kicking around any more but I remember the resistor being much more substantial, probably 3/4" long with end caps and looking more like a small ceramic fuse.As for higher voltage the clueless shouldn't be working with mains voltage never mind higher and there are not that many higher voltage sources the clueless have access to anyway.It comes with a clip so you can carry in the a shirt pocket like a pen. It is a testing screwdriver meant to check the presence of mains so you can avoid working on it. I wouldn't have qualms about using a decent one to avoid the risk of finding out the hard way.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 04:20:00 am
content: That guy is twisted. Is he doing that shit in his house? Wow.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 04:32:18 am
content: The other screwdriver only failed due to corona discharge in the plastic at the sharp edge of the end of the shaft. Surviving nearly 100x overload without failure is retty impressive for that, all discharge before that was around the plastic from other exposed metal.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 10:23:15 am
content: Would make a good link to add here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_light#One-contact_neon_test_lights

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on June 18, 2013, 03:13:59 amYeah,back in the day,we used to sell well made ones at my first job-----I never liked them much,myself,but they were properly designed,with correct high voltage construction of the resistor,etc.Ours were made in Germany,& had the maximum voltage rating clearly written on them.(380V)They are meant to be used by people with some idea of what they are doing---not morons!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 03:23:00 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 18, 2013, 03:12:10 pmThe proper tool to check mains voltages is a DUSPOL (http://de.benning.de/en/corporate/products-services/testing-measuring-and-safety-instruments/testequipment/duspol-facts.html). Fluke got a similar tool.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 03:52:38 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 18, 2013, 03:23:00 pmIf I wanted something that expensive that won't fit in a shirt pocket I would use a multimeter.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 04:29:56 pm
content: fine! now lets buy a car that wont kill if hit at 300mph. when few KV reach a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. and only a dumb that is meant to be recycled will bring this cheapo into a HV installation site.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 04:56:29 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on June 18, 2013, 03:52:38 pmWould that DMM be able to add a load to trip the RCD or to detect phantom voltages? Would it also give you a clue about the voltage without looking at the display? What about detecting line/phase/hot? How do you handle (in a safe way) holding two probes and a DMM at the same time while reading the display? A DMM isn't the best tool for mains wiring.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 05:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 18, 2013, 04:29:56 pmI think he's not far off too much. For 240V AC the peak voltage is 340V. Now add a spike from a nearby inductive load. I wouldn't be happy using a cheap voltage detector screwdriver. The problem is that I'm part of the loop to make it work :-( And if I wear shoes with thick rubber soles the neon glows so dimly I can't tell if there's a voltage or not. I can't distinguish a voltage from a phantom voltage either. It's simply the wrong tool, but it's so cheap that a lot of people got one it the toolbox.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 05:50:03 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 18, 2013, 05:17:14 pmhe is far off too far. the spike you are talking about is nowhere near at cutting Kielbasa into half. let me correct myself... when few KV at nonnegligible amount of energy reach into a household, a cheap pen tester is out of the equation. tv, refrigerator, human, pc et al will be is.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 06:12:06 pm
content: given the price, form factor and safety of non-contact voltage detector pens, i see no reason why this argument exists.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 06:19:59 pm
content: Not sure if the same guy, but I remember seeing some youtube videos years ago where a guy was connecting TVs to Tesla coils. Either way, his neighbors must love him.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 06:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 18, 2013, 05:50:03 pmA potentially (heh) dangerous current also does not have to be anywhere near cutting a kielbasa in half. It only takes a handful of mA on a bad day, even if it is unlikely. Yes, there are risks inherent in everything, but when one of them can be avoided by taking minimal effort (a VoltAlert wand is $25 FFS....) I am going to avoid it.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 06:55:52 pm
content: I've been watching a few of his videos over the past few days. His neighbors seem to join in the fun - he had a ten foot tall jacob's ladder going in his garden. His wife also has her own channel which is pretty hilarious in its own right, she has a pretty good sense of humor about it.He seems to have a problem with people constantly flagging his videos. I can kinda see why - doing what he does is pretty dangerous. Especially when he gets out that huge capacitor and starts blowing up fruit...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 07:57:58 pm
content: He also has a small "behind the scenes" channel which makes it pretty obvious that the "nutter" is just a character he puts on for show. I was much less worried about his ability to do all that without killing anyone after seeing it...Heisdefinitely a bit of a curmudgeon when it comes to criticism, though.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 08:06:49 pm
content: I think the man in the video is the sort to have a fully working electric chair, he seems to get pleasure in putting extra large amount of voltage into things.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 08:08:06 pm
content: Don't give him any ideas...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 08:16:57 pm
content: Do you have a link to that channel? I'd be interested in seeing it and a few searches aren't turning anything up.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 08:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: Telequipment on June 18, 2013, 08:06:49 pmworst, that guy has a "thing", when you get close enough to it, you instantly vaporize into black ashes, be careful.Quote from: c4757p on June 18, 2013, 08:08:06 pmtoo late my friend. the title "The Not So Nutter" is a blatant cover up.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 09:43:44 pm
content: Quote from: duskglow on June 18, 2013, 08:16:57 pmIAintAvinit. A few of the videos make him seem like a normal, knowledgeable (if not too eloquent) guy just putting on a show. A few others make him seem like a completely deranged lunatic. And the rest are just kind of boring.

author: gxti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2013, 09:50:03 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 18, 2013, 05:50:03 pmThe kV are for show, but even at nominal voltage that thing is unsafe. It's one fault away from electrocuting the operator.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 04:02:06 am
content: Quote from: madires on June 18, 2013, 03:23:00 pmWhen we sold them,circa 1960,such high tech stuff was a distant dream.Electricians used them mainly as a quick check that Active & Neutral were present,& on the right pins in sockets,(although it was only a "suggested" orientation in Western Australia till the '70s).For serious work,they used an analog multimeter.Why I said I didn't much like them,is the possibility of the neon failing due to dropping the tool,where the next test would show a false "safe".It shouldn't happen with Electricians ,as they are taught to test their tester each time in a known active point (for multimeters,too!),but they can get a bit lax with this-----& the rest of us will probably just assume our test equipment is OK.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 01:16:06 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 19, 2013, 04:02:06 amGood point! And Mr. DIY would keep the broken one because it's still usable as screwdriver. After a while he'll have some broken ones and a single working one in his toolbox. Nominated for the Darvin Award :-)QuoteYeah, it worked for the last 10 years. Why should it fail right now? :-)

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 01:20:10 pm
content: Yep, the majority of DIY types tend to assume that if something hasn't presently killed anyone, it's not going to. I tried for a month to convince my father to fix his wiring, after discovering that the outlets he installed in the garage weren't grounded properly. But since he'd been using it for months already without issue, he didn't do anything. (I finally just did it myself...)Should have just waited for him to plug in something with mains filter capacitors and a "grounded" chassis and waited for him to discover the capacitors...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2013, 01:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on June 19, 2013, 01:20:10 pmHmm, are you sure that we don't got the same father?Most times my father asks if he could do something in such and such a way now. But it took some time.QuoteRecommended for educational purposes :-)