Rant about bad experience buying from DigiKey to Europe - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: benj38
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 05:23:38 pm
content: Hi guys,Just had a bad experience buying from DigiKey sending a package to a friend in Austria.UPS charged me 14.33 Euro (on a 53.57 Euro order: almost 27%!) to get the package, and DigiKey refuses to refund me.They actually told me that if I refuse to accept the package I will be charged shipping both ways which will be about 38 Euro, and no parts!It is not a big order, so it does not hurt much, but I sure will never take a chance with them again.The Digikey order clearly stated "Incoterms: DDP (Duty and customs paid by Digi-Key, VAT due at time of delivery)".so I should have paid nothing except for VAT (which, BTW, according to my friend is always waved for packages below 20 Euro, and many times for packages up to 100 Euro - depending on your luck).Now this charge is clearly not VAT since:1. The UPS invoice clearly states VAT: 0.00, government fees: 14.33.2. VAT is 20% in Austria (this is the maximum rate, it is lower for some things), which would come out to 53.57 x 0.2 = 10.71, which is nowhere near 14.33.The annoying thing is that talking/ emailing DigiKey customer service about this is like talking to a wall! They simply do not want to grasp the meaning of incoterm DDP!--- Feel free to open Wiki and educate yourself about what DDP means if you don't know.A little example from the last email from them:"...duties and taxes were due at time of delivery... This is from the government and again this is not a charged on behalf of Digi-Key".Compare this to the text in the order confirmation: "Incoterms: DDP (Duty and customs paid by Digi-Key, VAT due at time of delivery)"In short, it looks like DigiKey are either clueless about international shipping terms and rules, or are playing dumb. One thing is clear though: if you get hit with any charge they are simply going to drop it on you in complete violation of the terms of your order.End of rant.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2020, 05:27:09 pm
content: Must be something specific to continental Europe since I've never seen such charges in the UK and my DigiKey orders all seem to get fulfilled from the US... unless things are changed now we are in Covid19 times?

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 05:41:53 am
content: Quote^ This is the key. And you pay VAT on thevalueon the "free" shipping as well and I'm pretty sure that's the discrepancy you see.VAT here in Sweden is 25%.Had I ordered parts for €53.57 Digkey would then add the value of the "free" shipping to the total value of the parts IIRC €16 so I'd pay 53.57+16 * 25% = €17.39 and it's been like that for the 10 years I've been ordering from Digikey. I've objected to the fact that I have to pay VAT "twice" on the shipping but Digikey say it's out of there hands. It's €4 so not the end of the world but lately I've heard from other Digikey customers here that they've been able to reclaim that cost from Swedish customs.Now, why UPS says that VAT is 0.00 I don't know and I'm not surprised. UPS constantly messes up, trying to double charge me, first sending me an Electronic invoice to be paid Before the parcel is delivered and then the same invoice on paper a week later. When I call them up they always discards the second invoice but I can't help but wonder how much money they make doing this - intentionally or not.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 08:33:10 am
content: Digi-Key have screwed up. Same thing happened with me with Arrow and I eventually ended up getting them to refund it.DDP means duties and delivery paid. Any duties are the responsibility of the seller. You shouldn't have to pay anything.Also, you don't pay VAT on the value of free things. The seller pays VAT on these and can't reclaim it. Of course Digi-Key is a US corporation so I don't know how that would work. But free shipping is not a gift, it is a business expense that is provided to make you buy the product.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 11:00:36 am
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 17, 2020, 05:23:38 pmIt’s frustrating, but you have to pay super close attention to the words. Digi-Key isn’t wrong here.Duty, customs, VAT, and government fees arefour different things. DDP incoterms mean customs and duty are prepaid, but not VAT and fees. Those still have to be paid.Never mind, I remembered wrong. See replies below.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 12:07:46 pm
content: Did you ship to a residential address?

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:18:12 pm
content: There is import duty of up to 12%, and there is VAT on top of that. Then there may be administration fees to collect and pass on these monies.Death and taxes... unavoidable!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:22:41 pm
content: If UPS charged you, why you blaming Digikey?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 02:39:18 pm
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 17, 2020, 05:23:38 pmWhat currency did you pay for the order: USD or EUR?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 05:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 18, 2020, 11:00:36 amBy default incoterms DDP includes VAT. The term "DDP VAT unpaid" is an uncommon variant where the seller has not paid the VAT for an item upfront, but has paid other duties.Fees are charged for the processing of VAT. If no VAT is to be paid, no fees should be due.

author: benj38
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 09:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on June 18, 2020, 02:22:41 pmQuote from: tooki on June 18, 2020, 11:00:36 amThe meaning of DDP is extremely clear, and is an international standard: the seller is responsible for all expenses, and takes all the risks of possible costs incurred by any entity (carrier, government, etc.), and of any type (taxes and fees included, as well as VAT) until the package is in the hands of the customer!See for examplehttps://www.linkedin.com/pulse/difference-between-incoterms-dat-dap-ddp-what-heck-vat-matthew-newman.Quote from: tom66 on June 18, 2020, 05:06:17 pm100% correct!Quote from: tom66 on June 18, 2020, 08:33:10 am100% correct!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:00:49 pm
content: If the invoice came from UPS, you deal with UPS. Period.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:04:57 pm
content: One of the things people don't always grasp is that the 'customs value' of a package is not what you paid for it. It's what the item is worth on the open market.If you get a 30% discount on something worth $100 the package should still have a customs value of $100 even though you paid $70If you get free shipping on an order this is like a discount and the customs value is whatever you paid + whatever you didn't pay for the shipping.This seems moronic to me, but that's how it works.You end up paying too much tax because you bought something for $70 but were charged tax on $100 etc..Not all companies comply with the rules to the letter, some will set customs value to what you paid including any discounts, but they're not supposed to.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:28:10 pm
content: Happens all the time. UPS can't comprehend "free shipping" so they pull out some number out of their ass. They also try to charge you the processing fees instead of billing it to Digikey as supposed.Mostof the time if you provide them with a valid VAT number the package is processed trough customs in Germany and you pay 0% VAT as it goes under "VAT Exemption For Intra-Community Transactions"

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2020, 10:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on June 18, 2020, 10:04:57 pmYou could argue (correctly!) that the free shipping simply means the cost of shipping has been added to the product price instead!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 05:28:43 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 18, 2020, 05:06:17 pmYep, sorry, you and benj38 are correct. My bad!

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 06:33:18 am
content: So to recap, you ordered things for 53.37 EUR, expected to be billed 10.71 EUR of VAT, but instead were billed for 14.33 EUR, which is 3.62 EUR more than you expected, or 6.8% of the initial total price of your order.I know how frustrating it is to receive unsubstantiated 20 to 40 EUR invoices from shipping companies for some services you didn't knowingly agree to, but clearly 3.62 EUR of excess on top of your expected 10.71 EUR, marked clearly as "government fee", is something different.You could ask UPS for a breakdown of what this "government fee" constitutes. Chances are, it's simply 20% of 71.65 EUR, which would be 53.37 EUR + 18.28 EUR tax value of "free shipping". Or then again, there might be another VAT-related government fee of 3.62 EUR there.

author: benj38
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:22:28 am
content: Quote from: Bud on June 18, 2020, 10:00:49 pmNo, for two reasons:1. I had no contract with UPS, I had one with DigiKey. UPS was acting as an agent for DigiKey.I should not be expected to deal with sub-contractors I have no agreement with.2. I have called DigiKey before paying UPS and asked what to do, and they said I must pay whatever they ask, and then ask DigiKey for a refund, which they now refuse to do. Thus, I was following DigiKey's instructions!

author: benj38
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:34:43 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 19, 2020, 06:33:18 amNo.1. As I said in OP, VAT is usually waved for packages of low value coming into Austria, depending on your luck, and the invoice clearly stated VAT was not due. I also said in the OP that "It is not a big order, so it does not hurt much". In short, I was wrongly charged 14.33, which is over 26% of the order value.2. Let's see you get a big company like DigiKey to use the same reasoning: "Hey, I just paid you 1% less than you expected, why don't you ship anyway?"It always amazes me how the richer (and by this I mean big companies) expect the poorer to "just be flexible, it is a small amount, what are you fussing about", but when it comes to them will not even accept one cent less.3. I am old-fashioned like this. I believe there are things called principles. My mother taught me I have to honor any agreement I sign. I know it is out of fashion these days. My apologies.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:38:00 am
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 19, 2020, 07:34:43 amI know it's not the same thing, but Amazon shipped me 2 x 16GB DDR4 modules instead of 1. I contacted their customer services and they told me to keep the extra as a gift. More expensive for them to accept it as a return I suppose.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:48:42 am
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 19, 2020, 07:34:43 amIf this is the same as they do here in France (where shopping at Digikey is the same pain), that "government fee" is most likely not "government" at all but it is the UPS flat fee for them filling the customs paperwork (even when none is required) on import for you. At least here in France they itemized it on the bill like that and didn't hide behind any "government fees" last time.UPS loves to charge this, here in France it is more like 20 euro. Digikey will wash their hands off it because it is not them charging it. However, they are outsourcing the customs declaration to UPS instead of filling it themselves (it is the shipper's responsibility) - and UPS will never pass on a chance to milk you.We have managed to get this fee waived once when my incensed manager got a local Digikey rep on the phone (they are trying real hard to look like a local company, with a French website, French phone number and even an address in France) and accused them of deceptive business practices because there is no customs (and thus no customs paperwork) to be dealt with when buying something from a French company. But not everyone has stomach for that ...If UPS/Digikey has these practices inyour country**then Digikey is best avoided. I go there only if nobody else is stocking the part I need.**I emphasize this, because this differs a lot between countries due to differences in customs laws and which company Digikey ships there with - these arenotuniform EU-wide. E.g. there are no such issues in UK or Denmark and people there don't understand what are we complaining about!

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 10:11:38 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 19, 2020, 06:33:18 amLast "funny business" bill I saw from UPS/Digikey the VAT was calculated from 18 euros "free shipping"Goes really close also in OP's case: (53.57+18)*0.2=14.314 (off by 1.6 cents)

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 11:47:41 am
content: Are you being serious?You, youself, wrote in the OP:"The Digikey order clearly stated "Incoterms: DDP (Duty and customs paid by Digi-Key,VAT due at time of delivery)""So the discrepancycannotbe about anything else than the 3.62EUR. I accept if you are after this 3.62EUR "by principle", until you get a proper explanation, or refund for that. I have principles myself, too, but I strongly recommend to think critically whenever you find yourself twisting the truth for your own gain.But what you just wrote - total and utter bullshit.Yes, small packets can get past customs "by luck" without you "needing" to pay VAT, but this luck, IME, does not happen with UPS. Also note while you talk about VAT being "waved", it's possible that you are actually committing a possibly criminal offence (albeit meaninglessly small) by not paying the VAT, unprompted; depends on your local jurisdiction. Why are you counting on this and require Digikey to be responsible for the fact you weren't lucky to be able to sneak past paying the required VAT, which you were informed about beforehand, and which you clearly acknowledged from the beginning? You clearly agreed to pay 10.71 EUR at the time of delivery, and now you are wasting Digikey's time arguing aboutthat.By all means go on and fight for the unexpected 3.62EUR if you feel it's necessary for principles.But it's clear at this point requesting refund for VAT is not about any sound principle, just you lying to yourself, or being a dickhead. Digikey is being responsible for not "refunding" you anything, because that would be then subvented in Digikey prices for me to pay.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 11:51:42 am
content: Quote from: janoc on June 19, 2020, 07:48:42 amNo, do not mix things up, thisclearlyisn't the case. It wouldn't be just 3.62EUR, and with the standard Digikey "Duty and customs paid by Digi-Key, VAT due at time of delivery" delivery, that 20EUR or similar cost should not happen and would be an actual mistake. I have never seen it with Digikey; with others not specifying DDP, this does happen.Though, I order from Digikey supplying an EU business VAT number, so I don't have to pay anything at delivery time.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 01:22:12 pm
content: Go to UPS web site and check the fees, there are plenty of fees UPS can slap on you other than import duties. Digikey has nothing to do with them.https://www.ups.com/ca/en/shipping/zones-and-rates/customs-clearance.page

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 01:48:19 pm
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 19, 2020, 07:34:43 amI thought only personal gifts were exempt from VAT? (and usually quite small amounts of money, the specific amount varies by country).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 03:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: benj38 on June 19, 2020, 07:34:43 amAccording to your own original post, the confirmation email said "Duty and customs paid by Digi-Key, VAT due at time of delivery". That’s clearly not saying “VAT is not due”, it’s saying the exact opposite.And to be clear, that exact wording is shown on the website during the checkout process,beforeactually placing the order:So it’s pretty clear that VAT is not covered by Digi-Key, and that it will be due on delivery.As for the amount, the shipping is a plausible explanation. Another is that the item in question perhaps is taxed at a higher rate than normal stuff? I dunno what EU VAT rules are like.As for the exemption, I suspect silversolder is correct. Also the question of whether the €20 exemption means €20 of VAT due, or on €20 worth of merchandise.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 03:22:24 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 19, 2020, 03:17:34 pmEUR 22 worth of goods excluding shipping cost. If this value is exceeded, then VAT is applied to both goods and shipping cost.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 04:28:35 pm
content: To qualify for the "gift" exemption, sender has to flag it as a gift in the customs document. Not likely that an electronic component vendor will do that!

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 06:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 19, 2020, 11:51:42 amThat's becauseyouare mixing it up. VAT would never be billed as "government fee" plus the OPs invoice clearly states it is not VAT that is being collected.That is most likely the UPS charging the paperwork filling/brokerage fee and nothing to do with VAT.That you didn't have to pay anything means little - as I have said multiple times whenever this sort of thing with Digikey came up (just search the forum, the OP is by far not the only person complaining about this), it depends a lot on which country you are in. When I lived in Denmark, I have been routinely ordering stuff from Digikey with no issues. Once I moved to France, I have got a nasty surprise in the form of these extra fees slapped on every order. So that you don't pay anything in Finland says absolutely nothing about the situation in Austria or France where the customs regulations and laws are different. This isnotharmonized across EU!

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2020, 07:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 19, 2020, 06:27:12 pmYes you are right this is a real possibility. That raises the question: what happened to the VAT? The OP has agreed to pay the VAT at the time of delivery, this is well documented and happens with Digikey. Needing to pay VAT should happen everywhere, regardless if there are unexpected extra costs in France for example. If your guess is correct, which it might be, that this bill was something else than VAT, the VAT would be still unpaid!

author: benj38
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2020, 05:54:48 pm
content: Just wanted to let you guys know that DigiKey came through in the end!Without saying why they have changed their mind, they have issued me a refund for the 14.33 Euro.The email about this simply read "Attached is a copy of your memo". Go figure.I am very glad that they have decided to honor the terms of the agreement, and thought you should all know.Thanks everybody for their comments and observations in this thread.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 12:52:46 pm
content: They probably read this forum.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2020, 04:45:10 pm
content: I bought a batch of parts from DigiKey mid May, including a cut tape of 100 items that cost £200+. They arrived in a couple of days as normal, packed everything up and sent them to my assembler. Roll round to mid June, assembler doing a check before loading their machine says it's the wrong part in the DigiKey bag. A few photo's later and sure enough, the tiny ICs in the tape are 5 pin and right ones are 6 pin. The labels on the bag are correct, just the wrong item packed. They only come in the one footprint, so I know I hadn't ordered the wrong part in error (been there, done that).So, a month after delivery, I give DigiKey a phone to ask what the options are. About 6 minutes later I had an apology, a refund on my card, and no need to ship anything back. I was quite impressed really. Still waiting for the odd part to come back from the assembler, as I'd like to know what I know have 100 of.