PCB holder - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 02:33:59 pm
content: Hi,I am looking (and found nothing) for a PCB holder that satisfies the subsequent requirements:- allows to hold boards of various dimensions (e.g not only below 50x100mm)- allows to hold boards under different angles- is not a heat sink- does not melt when hot air soldering is usedWeller ESF-120 PCB is almost good, but AFAIK it does not behave well when hot air is blown on it, right? Does anyone a suggestion?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:32:53 pm
content: ConsiderPanavisewith circuit-board arms (314, 324 etc), they are all metal and grasp only on the edges.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:51:15 pm
content: I second thePanavise 315, sold separately or combined with a base. Make sure you have a solid base, working on a large PCB clamped horizontally gives you a lot of leverage. I use the low-profile base with 312 large base plate. When soldering on boards near the limit it will tip over if not supported. Something fixed to the surface (magnetic, vacuum or clamped/screwed) might be more stable for large boards.

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 04:00:30 pm
content: Thanks to both of you. I am completely amazed with what this company offers. This is mind-opening.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 04:31:23 pm
content: If you want a cheap DIY option, as long as you are working with mostly rectangular PCBs you can get a long way with two lengths of 1/2" square hardwood with a shallow V grove routed down one side, and each end drilled through the groove side, 6mm or 1/4", to take some 5mm or 3/16" allthread. A second pair of plain shorter lengths of the wood drilled at one end can be threaded on one of the allthread rods outside the pieces that clamp the PCB and used to hold it up at an angle. Use wing nuts, with washers between them and the wood so they dont sink in too much. The end that the extra arms pivots on should have wing nuts inside and outside. Sand the corners of the clamping pieces to round them off so they don't char so easily if you need to work with hot air right up to the board edge.Loosely set it up flat round the PCB. Tighten all the outer nuts till the PCB is as snug as you want it. Lift it to the angle you want and tighten the inner nuts till the support arms will hold the angle you set securely. You may need to glue a patch of wet&dry sandpaper round the pivot hole between the arms to get enough friction without overtightening.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 04:38:49 pm
content: https://hackaday.io/project/7574-the-devil-is-in-the-details/log/24735-find-a-3rd-hand-device-that-suit-you

author: Zef
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 07:23:22 am
content: https://pcbgrip.com/might be an option.

author: albert22
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 01:58:27 pm
content: Here is a thread that shows many options on board holders:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/pcb-board-holder-what-are-you-using/msg105247/?topicseen#msg105247

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 09:31:03 pm
content: I have one of these (or at least it looks identical - got mine at a HAM radio meet):https://www.amazon.com/Aven-17010-Adjustable-Circuit-Holder/dp/B00Q2TTQEEIf you tighten the set screws it certainly won't budge and the jaws are metal so even hot air won't damage it. Being a heatsink is not a problem because the board is held only by the edges. I am using this one for through-hole work and it works great for that (especially given the price!)And for more fiddly SMD work I have one of these:https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1s0i4OVXXXXXOapXXq6xXFXXXD/Free-shipping-Universal-font-b-PCB-b-font-font-b-Holder-b-font-Fixtures-Mobile-Phone.jpgI find that more practical than the larger holder above because it allows to fit the boards under the microscope. The disadvantage is that these holders are made to handle tiny smartphone boards, so for anything larger I have ordered the Stickvise now:http://www.stickvise.com/(make sure to order the Teflon jaws or replace the default plastic ones with something else if you want to use hot air with it, though)The various helping hands are universally hopeless for holding PCBs. I have used several, have even the Sparkfun one with the coolant hoses, but it is both way too tall to comfortably work on, the hoses are very stiff and "springy", making it very tricky to get them where you want them, and the alligator clips are really poor at holding anything else than a piece of wireIt does come with a very nice inch thick machined aluminium base, though.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 10:48:08 pm
content: Given your location, you might want to check out Bernstein Tools (Spannfix vices). I mention this, as Panavise products are harder to come by as I understand it. Worse yet, there's less selection and they're more expensive in the EU than the US.Hope this helps.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 04:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 06, 2017, 10:48:08 pmInteresting, didn't know this company. A vise on a ball joint is definitely nice for all sorts of things, I have a cheap one and it can be fairly useful.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 04:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on July 06, 2017, 09:31:03 pmIt's fairly easy to rework those holders to take larger boards, I wanted something for microscope use too. I did it here (Ignore the SMPS sitting on it in the other photo, it was a silly example for scale):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/a-super-cheap-$6-pcb-holder-from-ebay-that's-rather-useful/msg669729/#msg669729P.S. It's worth checking out this thread too:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/pcb-holder-for-smd-assembly-microscope/

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 08:11:47 pm
content: I think I rather prefer the Stickvise design than hacking these small holders - they are cheap for a reason and probably not worth hacking too much before their overall crappiness will show.The last link you have posted is basically Stickvise - pretty simple to make your own if you have some basic tools.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 08:48:06 am
content: I have the Third Hand fromhttps://www.hobbycreek.comand absolutely love it. Holding a board with 2 or 3 arms holds it VERY steady, far stiffer than you might expect.I also have one of these:https://www.amazon.com/Aven-17010-Adjustable-Circuit-Holder/dp/B00Q2TTQEE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1499590006&sr=8-3&keywords=pcb+holderFor boards I'm flipping over constantly (e.g. when populating THT boards), I tend to use the Aven more. For working on one side of a board, I use the Hobby Creek. I also use the Hobby Creek for wires and connectors.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 03:31:05 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 09, 2017, 08:48:06 amI DIY'ed up something similar (sheet metal under the ESD mat & strong magnets in the arms). My Panavise base is mounted to a steel plate, so they can be used in conjunction.FWIW,this postmight be of interest (other ideas too).

author: electrolust
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 09:00:28 am
content: I've been happy withhttps://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pcbite-the-professional-and-affordable-pcb-holder--4#/. I found it via eevblog. The device comes with insulators for the clamp, I guess they are to prevent marring of the PCB. Those might not survive hot air, but they are optional so you don't have to install them.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 06:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 09, 2017, 08:48:06 amI have got this thing from Sparkfun myself (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11784) but I don't like the crappy alligator clips they ship with it - very small and flimsy, had to immediately replace them because they wouldn't even hold a wire, even less a PCB. The other thing that I don't like is the stiffness of the hoses - it makes it really difficult to bring the hose where I want it. Did you lubricate yours somehow? Or some other mod?Another trick I have seen (not tried myself) is to use the magnetic dial indicator holders used by machinists, aka this:https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adjustable-Indicator-Holder-Digital/dp/B00L5T2ZA8These things release by a single knob, you can position it exactly where you want them and then fixate it there by turning a knob. The disadvantage is that the base is a very big and heavy magnet - it needs some steel plate to stick on and could magnetize things you don't want it to.

author: tronde
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 07:12:20 pm
content: Photographic equipment can also be a source.Just examples. They come in different guises.http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-Adjustable-Friction-Articulating-Magic-Arm-For-DSLR-LCD-Monitor-LED-Light-/131948038048http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Mini-1-4-Screw-360-Swivel-Ball-Head-Ballhead-Station-For-Camera-Tripod-JS-/322513974245

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 06:53:22 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on July 10, 2017, 06:52:05 pmThe alligator clips on the Hobby Creek one grip very well.The arms on mine are stiff, but not overly so -- they definitely are designed to stay in place, and all 4 hold a PCB very steady. I wouldn't want them stiffer, but I wouldn't really want them softer, either.

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 07:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 09, 2017, 03:31:05 pmI got Panavise from Mouser - 2 day delivery from USAnyway I have a question. I got the vacuum attached base, but I assume the are all the same ecept for the way this thing is attached to the table. I can loc the pitch and yaw angle of the base, but I cannot lock it so that it would be impossible to roll it around. I can lock two out of three degrees of freedom but not roll. Ok, when locked it requires some force to be able to roll that, but still it is not very firm. Is that the feature of that product or did I get a defect copy?

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 07:30:20 pm
content: I see that this is exactly as shown in the video below:The Panavise construction is deeply flawed: (edit: I think I have exaggerated here, its a design choice, perhaps better grip would require larger size...) the central pin has the circular cross section. As it has radius of say 2 cm one can act easily with large moment of force (large radius) on anything attached to that. If they made the cross section hexagonal, this thing would not move.This thing:https://www.servocity.com/articulated-vacuum-visehas the hexagonal cross section. The Panavise will work as a PCB holder, but I am deeply disappointed.EDIT: wrapping a piece of thin paper around the central pin *significantly* improves the situation. But I this should not be required... I guess that in the end natural fliction will make the surface more rough and it will fix itself, but still I would prefer a hexagonal cross section.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 08:10:50 pm
content: How would you then handle rotation of the clamp relative to the base, so you can change the alignment relative to the vertical drop slot? I change that quite a lot when I have PCB that I clamp vertically to access both sides.There may be a tolerance issue in some samples, and there may also be an issue with expectations on the side of the user. The panavise is not a heavy-duty vise suitable for holding objects ten times its size against significant external forces/torques.

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 02:47:09 am
content: This holder has two "balls" one inside the other one. The ball inside moves only up-down. If it would be allowed to rotate in both directions, then the situation would perhaps be better, but then perhaps two screws would be required to lock the position of the head. So perhaps I was too harsh and this was a valid design choice.Anyway it seems that with extra paper slip one can make it resist rotation to the point that the rubber attaching it to the table is about to give up.The resistance to rotation also depends on lubrication and a brand new product definitely is significantly lubricated. I expect that lubrication will wear down quickly and the rotation resistance will improve.I agree this is not a heavy duty equipment, but when equipped with PCB holder, the radius of the head attached to that is rather large (say 15-18 cm) which made rotating really easy.So I am not returning. I love the PCB holder in that comes with product, and teflon pads for the standard viseSomehow I have feeling that my copy was overlubricated, now the resistance is larger...

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 03:19:03 am
content: Either that or sample variation. I just tested mine with the Panavise 315 PCB holder. PCB holder and base were bought used, probably manufactured 25-30 years ago (more recent for the base). With the lock screw hand tightened without making an effort to make it extra tight, I definitely have to use two hands (one to hold the base securely) and a fair amount of force to rotate the PCB holder, even with the long lever action of the square rod (I had the rod centered, so not the maximum amount of torque). Much more force than I would be exerting on a PCB during assembly/troubleshooting If there is any slip during normal use, it is in the vertical rotation joint on the PCB holder itself.The Panavise build quality is not amazing. I also see a difference in finish for parts made in the last decade versus from decades ago. So a tolerance issue resulting in insufficient friction sounds plausible to me (as would incorrect lubrication). I guess you could argue that it is a design flaw to rely on too narrow tolerances, but without access to the design specifications it is hard to tell which is at fault.

author: lacek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 07:27:45 am
content: How is your base attached to the table? If I understand there are the following options: its not (but 300 base weights approx 0.6 kg, so is pretty light), it is attached to the weighted base mount (a few kgs more) or is vacuum attached to the base as mine is.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 08:49:44 am
content: It is attached to a fairly light base plate with rubber feet (model 312), not to the work surface. So obviously without holding the base the maximum torque is quite limited. But still, it would probably be more than exerted during electronics work. And holding it with two hands, it took quite a lot of force to get it to rotate at all.I do not have a torque wrench that goes that high, so I can not quantify it for you. The 303 standard vise head I bought new sometime within the last decade is easier to turn, so there definitely appears to be some tolerance there.