Help me spend $3500 on test equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jlbraun
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:31:22 am
content: In the interest of not showing a profit in my LLC this year, I need to spend some money.I do mixed signal design and development up to about 100MHz on the digital side and am hoping to start doing some more RF design work up to the 2.4GHz ISM band.I have:Rigol DS1102D MSOFluke DMMDual 10A power supplyCheap sig-gen <10MHzIn consideration are:spectrum analyzer w/TGGood stereo microscopeBetter sig-gen / arbScour ebay for a used vector network analyzerHonestly I think I am leaning towards a used VNA but I don't know if at $3500 that is too much to hope for one that actually works and doesn't need a board replacement.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 04:38:19 am
content: QuoteBuy me a DSA?

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 07:41:11 am
content: I've almost got the SAME problem! Except my number is ~ $10K and I'm shooting for staying in the 15% bracket.Grabbed a bunch of stuff in the past couple of months to add to my arsenal...BK2709B $105, DP832 ~$400, SDS7102 ~$430, a bunch of tools from iFixit ~$380, a Makerbot 2X ~$2.6K, Flir E4 $1K, and a bunch of other stuff for another ~$1K.I've still got about $4K+ to go. Plan on getting a few more lighting fixtures for the shop to augment the other 7 4ft dual-tube types, a decent boom 'scope, a good Variac, another Nexus 7, heck, that only accounts for another ~$1K.Really it's kinda hard to spend money when you really WANT to...I'd like to get a really good solid method of whipping up halfway decent one-off prototype PCBs here in the shop, but sending out for them is almost worth it except for the 2 week lead time.Ya know, maybe a couple of good UPS's for the shop wouldn't be a bad idea. One for the PC's and one for the bench...

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 08:27:04 am
content: Id grab another psu, and grab a whole bunch of banana->x cables, another multimeter, isolation transformer, variac, a bunch of bnc cables, terminators, splitters, attenuators, spectrum analyser.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 09:47:25 am
content: I'ld buy one or two bits of good but used probably HP gear, all the cheap stuff I bought early on, I regret, and have practically given way. My 10+yo HP stuff is going well and the support from Agilent and others e.g. agilent-HP blogg site is good if it does go bad.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 02:46:33 pm
content: Usually its better to pay as much tax as possible. This gets you the most money in your wallet. Buying test equipment you don't need is a waste of money. Test equipment devaluates even faster than a car.Then again a thermal imaging camera and a spectrum analyser with tracking generator are very useful and are likely to pay off. I bought a used spectrum analyser (Advantest from around '95) a couple of years ago. Recently I had to get a product through EMC testing and it paid for itself instantly.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 05:25:45 pm
content: Huh. A spectrum analyzer with TG is probably your best bet here as sending your product off for EMC testing then finding out it failed is a big drain of cash.

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 08:35:51 pm
content: You could always host a giveaway.

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 09:59:03 pm
content: Quote from: ixfd64 on December 25, 2013, 08:35:51 pmI'm in!Maybe 35 giveaways of $100?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 10:37:17 pm
content: Quote from: jlbraun on December 25, 2013, 04:31:22 amHow much tax do you pay on such a small profit?Also, you do realise that by buying gear you are actually losing money, right?But of course you are buying gear, so that coolQuoteDo you really need a VNA? That's a pretty specialised bit of kit.A good spectrum analyser with tracking gen at 2.4GHz will eat up all your budget unless you buy 2nd hand. The cheap Rigol only goes to 1.5GHz.A good microscope is well worth the money, as is a good soldering station.Got an LCR meter?

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 11:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 25, 2013, 10:37:17 pmObviously, I don't know the specifics of the O/P's case, but I agree that buying stuff to not show a profit (eg. lowering overall tax burden by purchasing deductible business related equipment) isn't the way to go about it.In my case, it's about staying below the cutoff for the next tax bracket...and I've got about 5 more days to make sure it doesn't happen. An LCR meter is a decent idea...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 12:25:35 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 25, 2013, 11:57:59 pmIn Australia, trying to stay under a tax bracket is just pointless, because you only get taxed at the higher rate for every dollaroverthe tax bracket. So if the bracket is $80K, and you earn $81K, you only pay the higher tax rate on that $1K over. So spending that $1K in order to save maybe 5% ($50) in extra tax on that $1K is pretty silly.I see this the week before tax time. You see people flock to the local computer market or whatever plonking down cash to buy the latest PC so they can "write it off on tax". People are actually silly enough to think that "writing it off" on tax means you get it for free

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 02:34:41 am
content: Not to mention you won't get the whole expense back in your tax return anyway, because you have to apply depreciation rules on your equipment.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 03:41:09 am
content: All true...but I'm justthat closeto going over the breaking point, and if I do go over, the extra tax is on all of it, not just the chunk over X.I know I won't get the whole value back, just a percentage, and yes, depreciation etc. My old 2246A is what...20+ years old? Might be worth $zero on paper, but it's worth a million if I didn't have anything else.meh...besides, it's stuff I've been wanting to buy and/or upgrade anyways. Just been looking for a good reason to get it.You know what they say...Those who die with the most toys...Can't play with them anyways...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:27:30 am
content: This is the official US federal benefits finder. Notice question 8. For many people, gross income affects more than just taxes.http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/benefit-finder/#benefits&qc=cat_1

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:29:54 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 26, 2013, 03:41:09 amReally? Is that how it woks in the US?That sucks!These are our tax brackets:http://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/Taxable income Tax on this income0 – $18,200 Nil$18,201 – $37,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200$37,001 – $80,000 $3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000$80,001 – $180,000 $17,547 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000$180,001 and over $54,547 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 04:33:42 am
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on December 26, 2013, 02:34:41 amIn oz anything under $5K gets instantly written off. You can depreciate it if you so chose, but I'm not sure why you'd bother.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 05:22:47 am
content: In the USA you can choose to expense or depreciate. In general for computer equipment depreciation is around 5 years that is about a life of a computer.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 06:35:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 26, 2013, 04:29:54 amI'll be the 1st to admit I'm for from any sort of tax expert. And maybe the tax burdens are different for those with different types of companies.As for me, I'm a "single-member disregarded entity LLC", barely one step above a sole proprietorship. Boils down to all of the $$$ going in/out falls thru to me as a person for tax purposes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_bracket#Tax_brackets_in_the_United_StatesSo, maybe corporations gets hit harder. I don't know.I do know I went thru everything with my tax person a couple weekends ago, estimating end-of-year totals, etc.We came up with the ~$10K figure under a really-bad-case scenario.If I don't get rid of that extra $10K in a justifiable manner (eg. buying relevant equipment), I get to pay a good chunk of that $10K straight to the man.(Hence the purchase of the Makerbot2X, Flir E4 and handful of other stuff in the past couple months)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 08:06:35 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 26, 2013, 06:35:57 amThat's exactly the same as how the scaled tax bracket works here.So I think it's not true that you have to spend that extra $10K for tax purposes, unless as someone else pointed out, you are getting government benefits for something that stops once you reach a certain income threshold.Let's say you earned $97.850 taxible income, $10K above the 25% threshold. You pay 28% on that $10K instead of 25%, a whopping 3% more. So by spending it you are spending $10K to save $300 in tax. So unless you really need that stuff, it's just a silly thing to do.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 01:18:41 pm
content: I smell what you're cooking...but still...I WANT STUFF! Even if some of it does end up being mildly silly.

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2013, 11:30:13 pm
content: SkiMask, you're buying this with your company's money, correct? I think that is the disconnect in communication here. Corporate taxes are a completely different beast in the US, so the tax brackets do not apply here.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:35:33 am
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 26, 2013, 11:30:13 pmWell, yes, it is the "company's money", but like I said, at the end of the year, LLC = Me...at least that's the way I understand it.And Dave is obviously a helluva lot bigger than I am.

author: wilheldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 12:55:49 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 27, 2013, 12:35:33 amI'm no accountant, and I don't own a business, but I know that my company bought a $20k digital stereomicroscope last year to burn money for tax reasons. There must be something in US corporate tax law that allows you to buy capital goods in order to avoid paying additional taxes. And it makes sense because you buying more capital goods expands the economy, and the government ends up getting more revenue in the long run.Dave's company, while bigger than yours, is also in Australia, so corporate tax law is likely very different.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 04:47:59 am
content: Taxes hurt brain...Must continue talk toys...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:07:49 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 27, 2013, 04:47:59 amApril 15th. Day of increased suicides in the US.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:18:58 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 27, 2013, 12:35:33 amThat's called a "sole trader" in Australia, and that's how I've operated up until now. Everything I have said applies to that situation, and I'm pretty sure it's the same for the US. If it all goes on your personal tax return, then it's silly to buy stuff for tax reason.Now, as a corporation, there is still no benefit for me to buy things to avoid tax, it's still just as silly. The only difference with a company is that the tax rate is a fixed 30% instead of scaled like it is for personal tax returns.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:20:47 am
content: Quote from: wilheldp on December 27, 2013, 12:55:49 amThat could simply be an internal thing, spending a budget before year-end is very common in large corporations. No real tax advantage, it's just how internal company and project budgets work.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:22:20 am
content: I'm going to apply for the R&D tax concession this year!http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/programs/innovation-rd/RD-TaxIncentive/Pages/default.aspx

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 05:38:47 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on December 27, 2013, 05:34:35 amNo. I became a company now so I potentially wouldn't regret not doing so down the road...

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 07:10:25 am
content: We go through this sort of BS also this time of year. We look at it this way. If we need something anyways, we just get a better one, or option it up. Also things like new ESD mats and parts bins, and other happy crap of the like. Make your life better stuff you otherwise would not really think about. Its widely known among company controllers over here if you don't show a reasonable amount of expenditures like that the IRS can actually get kinda curious, and that is not good. We upgraded one of our CAD packages and Eagle this year. Also i bought myself a new low end siglent (Whe wide display one) and some other junk, and tomorrow i will do a round to see if anything else is needed around the shop. All part of the business dance. We considered a 3D printer, but we want something nice thats easy to use. Have not found that yet.. What we really need is a new PCB washer, but they are kinda hard to find here in the states.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 07:33:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 27, 2013, 05:18:58 amMay be silly, but at the end of the day, you've got a new toy or two!Not like you need any more toys (or have room for them)...

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2013, 09:04:06 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on December 27, 2013, 07:33:25 amBut if you have not time to play?