How do you protect your handheld meters from battery leakage? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 09:27:17 am
content: Hey everyone, how do you protect you handheld meters and other devices from battery leakage? I've recenetly experienced another set of energizer AAA cells wet themselves. Putting batteries into my meters before and removing them after each use is kinda impractical. Most of my meters require at least one screw to be remove to access the battery and most of them only have plastic screw threads which would probably wear out quickly, even if you are careful and try to reuse the old thread every time you put the screw back in. For the better meters it is even more of a hassle because you have to remove the silicone sleeve first.I wonder if there are Li-Ion packs available, that fit into a standard 2/3/4 AA or AAA battery compartment. How do you protect your stuff?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 09:48:14 am
content: There are AA li-ionbatteries with usb charger and 1.5V switchermounted inside the battery body (with up to 1600mAh, but I would be a bit skeptical about that).

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 10:04:48 am
content: I use low self discharge (e.g. Eneloop) NiMH batteries in all my equipment that takes AA/AAA/9V batteries. No problems with leakage, and battery life is fine. If I wanted more battery life or low temperature performance, I'd look at primary lithium batteries, but they are expensive and you need to check if your equipment can take the slightly higher voltage.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 10:13:14 am
content: I use LSD Ni-MH or Ni-Zn for AAA and AA, and Li-ion PP3's. Even in stuff like remote controls. If I could use rechargeable AG13's I would.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pm
content: Quote from: imo on September 18, 2022, 09:48:14 amThanks imo I did not know those USB-rechargable batteries existed. Unfortunately we don't seem to have the Fenix brand here in Europe. What is availablehereseems to bei either no name or brands I haven't heard of. Does anyone have experience with one of those Brand (e.g. Hixon, Hakadi, Kratax ...)?Quote from: alm on September 18, 2022, 10:04:48 amI've used the Eneloops only for my DECT phone so far. They died pretty quickly within a year or so. They didn't leak but also didn't charge any more. I guess that was due to the memory effect and the way DECT phones are used (discharge only a fraction of the capacity during a call and put the device back into the charging station). In handheld meters this will probably be less of a problem. However I'd expect the lower voltage to be a problem - For instance I have a meter that runs on 3V (2 AAA in series) with NiMH I'd only get 2.4 V at best which I expect to be trouble. Do you have any experience how battery powered test equipment deals with those lower voltages?Also looking at the amazon reviewsEneloops (Or NiMH batteries in general) don't seem to be 100% leak-proof either.Quote from: AVGresponding on September 18, 2022, 10:13:14 amNi-Zn batteries look interesting in contrast to Ni-MH they seem to deliver 1.6V (I guess running with <= 110% of the rated voltage should be safe). Can you recommend any brand and good charger for the Ni-ZN cells? I guess your regular Ni-MH charger won't work for those.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:26:39 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pmDECT phones are a special case due to their almost constant charging. They sell special batteries for this (Eneloop Lite, I believe) that cope better. In general NiMH does not like constant charging, unlike NiCd.Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pmIt's not been a problem in any of the equipment that I use. Equipment made in the past two decades is generally designed with NiMH batteries in mind. The only exception I've seen was a cheap Mastech LCR meter that would constantly indicate low battery, but would work fine either way. My Fluke 189 DMM works perfectly on NiMH batteries (4xAA). The discharge curve of NiMH is much flatter than alkaline and the output impedance is lower, so in practice the difference is much smaller than the full capacity open circuit voltage suggests.Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pmClearly, but there appear to be much fewer reports of NiMH batteries leaking. I've only seen it in really old batteries that had been in storage for years. Due to the need to charge, I inspect NiMH batteries more often than back when I was using alkaline.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:32:42 pm
content: Ni-Zn isn't a good idea. I have a number of them and I throw them away. They don't hold charge well and plus most meter doesn't need the full 1.5V to run. NiMH are fine for voltages. But the meter is a low drain device so you need to use Eneloop because other NiMH would have too fast self discharge rate.I do agree removing the battery is a pain.Now while Energizer alkaline AA leaks does Energizer Lithium AA leak? If they don't I think I would use them. Kinda expensive but I don't want to ruin my meters.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pmDoes not appear to have leaked anything outside. If NiMH "leaks" it's just some crystals on terminals at worst, and it's really hare. Unlike Alkalines which totally trash the device.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on September 18, 2022, 12:32:42 pmI have seen 9V lithium batteries (I don't remember the brand) used in smoke detectors leak a blue liquid. It did not seem corrosive to me. I could just wipe it off.But I believe lithium AA batteries have an initial voltage of 1.7 V. I'm not sure if all equipment can deal with this.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 12:51:03 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 12:14:00 pmI use Turnigy brand cells from Hobby King. The LSD Ni-MH consistently exceed their stated capacity, and they are good value. I use a bench psu to charge the Ni-Zn, a bit naughty I know...Quote from: BeBuLamar on September 18, 2022, 12:32:42 pmWhy would you throw them away? They work perfectly well for me. I use them in my Fluke 289, without any problems; I use the meter pretty much daily and only need to recharge every few months. Also there's no need to pay the exorbitant premium for eneloops,Turnigyare just as good and a fair bit cheaper.Ni-MH are not always fine for use in DMMs, there are cases where the voltage is too low and causes the low voltage shutoff too soon, iirc the 121GW is such a case (though I'm happy to be corrected if it isn't).

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 01:08:42 pm
content: Quote from: alm on September 18, 2022, 12:40:55 pmI haven't used non-rechargable lithium batteries yet, but according to theirspecthey deliver 1.5V just like their alkaline counterparts. They are expensive though, but especially in more expensive test gear spending a few more bucks on a batteries seems to be reasonable considering the cost of the equipment it may damage (like Daves Fluke 3000 that was recently killed by Energizer alkalines, I still wonder if @EEVBlog tried to get a replacement under theEnergizer no-leak warrranty. They honored the warranty for one of my devices, but that was considerably cheaper than the fluke - I'd really be interested to see what happens when they have to replace expensive gear).Energizer claims that it would be impossible for their Lithium batteries to leak:Code:Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ Batteries are GUARANTEED NOT TO LEAK. Due to advanced technology, Ultimate lithium™ batteries will not leak under normal consumer usage. If you believe that you have a leaking Energizer® Ultimate Lithium™ battery, contact 1-800-383-7323 for return instructions.

author: Vincent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 01:30:00 pm
content: I'm one of those peasants who just takes the batteries out of something whenever said something isn't used for a while.I'll assume the question is more specifically about a particular choice of batteries that may prevent leakage or make it less likely. In that regard I go carbon-zinc. In my now-almost-ancient Mastercraft 52-0052-2 multimeter (a rebrandedColluck HH2205L), even a carbon-zinc 9V battery lasts plenty of time. They probably leak if discharged deep enough but in this specific case the battery is out way before it reaches that point so leaks are very unlikely to happen.Plus carbon-zincs are so cheap, and in the case of 1.5V cells I've got graphite rods I can use for other purposes once extracted and cleaned.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 01:48:24 pm
content: Quote from: Vincent on September 18, 2022, 01:30:00 pmyou beat me (by a few minutes) to mentioning carbon-zinc.an interesting ad i happened across, looking for the cheapest source of carbon-zinc cells in NZ:https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/eveready-carbon-zinc-battery-aa-pack-of-50/p/349581while less than 50 cents each, also noteworthy is the writing on the package, "Leak Resistance Guaranteed":this suggests the manufacturer is well aware that other battery technologies DO leak!cheers,rob :-)

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 02:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on September 18, 2022, 12:51:03 pmYep, I can't comment on Turnigy specifically, but there are several brands of good low-self-discharge NiMH batteries.Quote from: AVGresponding on September 18, 2022, 12:51:03 pmI don't own a 121GW. I see both reports of NiMH batteries having problems in the 121GW, and people saying it works fine. Maybe there was a firmware update?Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 01:08:42 pmThe initial voltage is higher than 1.5V and can cause problems in some devices, likethe 121GW.Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 01:08:42 pmThat's not saying it's impossible, it just says it will not leak under whatever they deem normal usage, and that they will reimburse you if they do leak. Is that very different from what they say about alkaline batteries?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 02:02:11 pm
content: Carbon-zinc batteries leak just as bad as alkalines. It's just that currently alkalines are more prevalent now so you see them leaking more often.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 02:10:40 pm
content: Also as long as device does not shut down with single cell voltage above 1.2V (which would be a crappy device wasting almost half of the alkaline battery capacity), there are basically no downsides in using LSD NiMH cells.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 03:02:54 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 01:08:42 pmI've not had the Varta version, but the Energizer Ultimates have an OCV of ~1.8V initially and ~1.7V when totally dead. The cell impedance goes up as they discharge (or get cold). Their best use cases are devices that are only used very rarely (low LSD, no leakage, device will be OK for 10 years plus) or the occasional poorly designed product that can't cope with the appropriate range of voltages seen from normal batteries over their life. Otherwise they cost too much and don't have that much longer of a useful life than good NiMH. My supposedly battery-hungry Fluke 289 will log for over a week with Eneloops.One option not mentioned thus far are the two-cell Li-Ion 9V battery replacements. Large capacity, low internal impedance, low self discharge, no leakage--they're my new go-to for smoke detectors and meters that take the 9V type.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 03:04:10 pm
content: Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 09:27:17 ama) Don't use alkaline batteries.

author: 25 CPS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 04:09:47 pm
content: I ended up putting my handheld test equipment and a bunch of other things onto an annual preventative maintenance plan after having leaks destroy two Agilent U1177A IR/BT adapters and damage a multimeter, and had batteries leak in other things like flashlights, wireless weather station receivers etc. The details are over in the Test Equipment Anonymous thread.I seriously think the major downside of long battery life is that it can end up being too long and invite batteries to leak before they run down and force a replacement with new ones.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 04:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 18, 2022, 02:02:11 pmSounds almost like you have some first hand experience with leaking zinc carbon batteries. alm mentioned above that while lithium batteries do leak they seem no be less (non?)-corrosive. Do you know if zinc carbon leakage is less/more/just as bad as alkaline leakage?

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 04:34:35 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 18, 2022, 02:02:11 pmi'm not entirely convinced of this.from reading the wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery), an alkaline cell has a "pressure expansion seal" at the base (under the negative cap). that such an expansion seal is needed points to pressure build-up inside not being uncommon.a zinc-carbon cell, again from a wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc%E2%80%93carbon_battery) is mechanically far simpler, lacking an expansion seal. it appears that any pressure is alleviated via the carbon rod (that exits the cell-proper under the positive cap) being porous. however, the zinc casing of the cell is consumed over time, and that may release contents.so both have issues, but different issues. certainly, in the last 10 years i have noticed alkaline cells having a disproportionate proclivity to damage/wreck equipment; i don't recall ever having something damaged by a leaking zinc-carbon cell.one solution may be the invention of a 2xAA case, containing a Li-Ion 'pouch' cell and series dropper diode. i have seen Li-Ion cells being used as single-use in some chinese-manufactured products.cheers,rob :-)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 04:47:31 pm
content: I don't care about what wiki says since I had both types leak into my devices.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 04:53:24 pm
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on September 18, 2022, 04:34:35 pmYeah I had something like this in mind when in my original post:Quote from: Traceless on September 18, 2022, 09:27:17 amI have seen LiIon battery packs in phones, notebooks etc. bulge but they did never spill any liquids. If one would simply make an 2/3/4 AA or AAA shaped plastic casing with contacts on the top and bottom put a LiIon pack inside and then seal the plastic casing that would be pretty much leak-proof. It would also likely have a much longer durability and capacity compared to regular AA/AAA rechargables.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 05:00:26 pm
content: I'm usinglow self-dischargeNi-MH rechargeable, brand TRONIC energy eco (bought from LIDL).They really are low at self-discharging, I recharge them (for the DMM) once a year or so.Their color scheme looks like this:https://budgetlightforum.com/node/55247They come in format AA, AAA, C and 6HR61 9V(7.2V), all the same brand, name and color scheme.

author: Vincent
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 05:16:20 pm
content: Is it possible that alkalines and carbon-zincs will leak in different contexts?In my experience, you better not forget alkaline batteries in a device for extended periods, they'll almost invariably leak.Carbon-zincs do leak, but very often did I open up the battery compartment of some device, found 20+ years old carbon-zinc batteries in there, and they were 200% dead, but cosmetically pristine. One recent counter-example was some sort of battery-powered fan for camping. I suspect the batteries were quickly drained, giving enough time for the magic juice to be released instead of the batteries just drying like raisins.Just a hypothesis though, I'm no expert in the battery department LOL.

author: Traceless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 05:30:49 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on September 18, 2022, 05:00:26 pmThanks for sharing your experience with the Tronic batteries. I just found a NiMH long term test (link below). Apparently the IKEA Ladda perform nicely as well.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 05:38:18 pm
content: here is another interesting one:https://www.bunnings.co.nz/solar-magic-3-2v-600mah-14500-lithium-batteries-2-pack_p4351891pack of two 3.2V, 600mAh, 14500 size Lithium LiFePO4 rechargeable batteries. being sold for use in solar garden lights. looks like LiFePO4 may have a self-discharge of something like 2%/month. just fit in every 2nd space, with dummy cells (wire link) in between.cheers,rob :-)

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 05:52:54 pm
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on September 18, 2022, 04:34:35 pmBack in the day, leaking 'leakproof' Zinc Carbon torch batteries (AA, C, and D) were a real problem, and that was with shorter shelf and operating life than we typically see today with the higher capacity Alkalines.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 06:20:49 pm
content: My handheld instruments are all old so use 9 volt batteries which have two layers of protection. The only 9 volt batteries that I have had leak and damage something are carbon-zinc batteries, and there is no reason to use them instead of alkaline 9 volt batteries.For my other things which use AAA and AA cells, I use low leakage NiMH cells. I have gone through one complete set over more than 5 years for everything and none of them leaked.Another alternative are 1.5 volt Li–FeS2 (lithium iron disulfide) AA and AAA cells which are now available and suppose to never leak. I doubt their 1.8 volt open circuit voltage will matter to anything.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 01:08:51 pm
content: Quote from: alm on September 18, 2022, 12:40:55 pmThey are usually less than .1V more than alkaline which when fresh can be as high as 1.65V. I wouldn't worry about it.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 01:24:23 pm
content: Apparently (as reported elsewhere on this forum) the Brymen 235 will not function properly (shows an error) if you use primary lithium cells. So there are at least a few things where this is a problem. I haven't run into any myself.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 02:52:29 pm
content: Problems with the high initial voltage of primary lithium batteries have also been reported for the 121GW as I wrote before:Quote from: alm on September 18, 2022, 02:00:06 pmSo yes, the higher voltage matters with some meters.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 03:07:13 pm
content: Hmm, perhaps those that do have an issue are optimized for better use with NiMH? I wonder if the Brymen 726 has the same issue? I have the 726 but I don't have enough of the Lithium batteries to try.In other equipment I have I have never had an issue.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 05:52:00 pm
content: I can say one thing for sure, NEVER use Duracell alkalines, they WILL leak, positively the worst battery on the market.My preference is Panasonic or Varta, so far, they have never leaked.Intuition would suggest that cheapo batteries that are supplied with devices should be the worst, and although I never trust them I've known them go for 6 and more years, still have life and not leak! In fact, I've just had to borrow a D cell from a big 4 cell torch I bought in 2016 from Aldi. needed it for an Avo 8. Not only have they not leaked but despite having quite a few hours on them, they still have a healthy terminal voltage and short circuit current! The brand is Activ Energy, made in China, which I've seen in a number of Aldi products. So, surprise there!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 06:07:42 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on September 19, 2022, 05:52:00 pmI had AAA Pairdeer alkalines in my Fluke Voltalert it originally came with, IIRC got it around 2008-2009 as a gift with oscilloscope purchase. Used it only occasionally and forgot what batteries it had. When I looked in a few months ago, found out they expired a decade ago but still worked just fine. Unlike Duracells which leak in unopened package.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 07:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: unknownparticle on September 19, 2022, 05:52:00 pmI have had just as many Energizer alkaline cells leak. I am currently using ACDelco alkaline cells for things which do not rate low discharge NiMH cells, and I make no special claims about them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2022, 07:58:55 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on September 19, 2022, 07:39:49 pmYep.I don't know why we have to have thread after thread of finger pointing which Alkalines are the worst. They'reALLbad, and there's alternatives.Just stop buying alkalines, problem solved.Quote from: unknownparticle on September 19, 2022, 05:52:00 pmSo far...

author: Jeff eelcr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 11:21:45 am
content: Also apply some type of dilectric grease to terminals and battery.Jeff

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 05:38:53 pm
content: Just pulled apart a 42 year old NOS (new old stock) rechargeable battery pack for a TI-55 and as expected, found that the NiCd AA cells leaked, but not too badly. I could not find any low discharge NiMH cells with tabs, so ordered some normal ones.

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 06:18:50 pm
content: I just renewed my supply of Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA batteries.The current price is $3 USD per cell.After recovering from the shock, I Googled why they cost so much now. Sources say electric vehicle production is driving up the cost of lithium.Prices for lithium have increased 438% this year, according to Fortune media.I may have to see if the low voltage (1.2V) of my Eneloop batteries will work in my application.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 06:42:55 pm
content: In my experience things not working on NiMH batteries has become the exception. The only place I use alkaline batteries these days is in hostile environments (like bike lights that get exposed to the elements) or in very low drain devices where the hassle of recharging is not worth it for me (remotes and clocks). All cheap things that I wouldn't mind replacing if they leaked. I'm sure NiMH batteries would work fine, but either they would wear out faster or I would have to take the clock from the wall more often.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 08:29:11 pm
content: I just did a little testing WRT to my Brymen 726.It shows a low battery indication once the voltage drops below 3.7V That's about 1.23V per cell which does not bode well for using NiMH batteries.I raised the voltage up to 5.1V and it did not produce any indication that that was an issue. However, the only two Energizer "AAA" Litiums I have measure at 1.85V each! That would be 5.55V for the pack. I'm a little reluctant to test that high.The current alkalines have been in it for a year and are now at 1.48V - so I replaced them and will use thesm for non-critical use.Some questions come to mind.1a) Has anyone tried the BM726 with NiMH cells? b) How long do they work before a recharge is required?2) Has anyone tried Lithium batteries in this unit?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2022, 08:46:15 pm
content: Quote from: Gary350z on September 21, 2022, 06:18:50 pmIt's beyond me why anyone would pay that for a single use cell. Eneloop in disguise like IKEA LADDA or Amazon Basics cost about $1.5-$2 per cell, and often even cheaper when there is a deal.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2022, 01:31:49 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 21, 2022, 08:46:15 pmI have considered them several times over the years, but they always had too poor of a price per capacity. They do have certain applications where they have no substitute like operating at extreme cold.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2022, 04:47:02 am
content: has anyone tried asingle14500 size Lithium LiFePO4 rechargeable (nominal 3.2v) in place of 2xAA cells in a handheld meter? it would slot into one of the AA locations, with a shorting bridge in the other - this would only work if the meter did not require a 1.5v tap.cheers,rob :-)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2022, 06:38:11 pm
content: Quote from: robert.rozee on September 22, 2022, 04:47:02 amThere's no reason it won't work but the capacity will be a third of other solutions.Maybe good for remote controls or other very low power devices. Self discharge is about the same as alkalines.