USPIRG report: Repair Saves Families Big - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 02:09:14 am
content: This is a new report that's come out about the need for a Right to Repair.https://uspirg.org/sites/pirg/files/reports/RepairSavesFamiliesBig/Repair-Saves-Families-Big_USP_Jan2021_FINAL1a.pdfAnd another related link on formal "skill-sharing" networks .https://www.shareable.net/skill-sharing-landscape-emerges/

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 01:55:17 am
content: The world needs new paradigm with repair rather replace.Governments should financially punish bad corporate citizens like Apple who send software updates to slow your phone down so that you buy the latest model. Governments should create repairable compliance legislation (eg: like safety approvals), so that products designed not to be repaired cannot enter a market such as Apple's "worm in your ear" earbuds. TVs should not be allowed in the market unless there are spare parts and repair documentation available for a period at 10 years beyond the end of life of the product (It is legislated here that car parts are available for 10 years after EOL). TV sets are far too cheap, so when they break people throw them out rather than repairing them. Governments should also make spare parts free of sales tax, VAT, GST etc. Jobs will be created - the near extinct TV repairman might get his old job back.It will never happen in countries with backwards thinking governments. like our Victorian state government (under Daniel Andrews) who are imposing a 2.5 cents per kilometer tax, effective July 1 2021, on electric vehicles because they won't be raking in taxes from fuel. And they wonder why Australia has one of the slowest uptakes in the world. As electric vehicles increase in popularity, this tax will undoubtedly escalate.I don't know about you, but I get great satisfaction repairing rather than replacing. Over Christmas, an elderly relative had a 25 year old electric gate opener fail. I tracked the fault to a cracked solder joint on the RF receiver PCB. FIXED! I felt really good. No need to replace it.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 02:14:48 am
content: Yes.. Doesn't it feel good to fix things! One less piece of e-junk. Lots of saved money.Little known international agreements now often dictate what governments can do.So if something they did in order to help consumers lowered a foreign companies profit, they could get brought before an international arbitration court and if they were found in violation they quite possibly would have to change it.So there really does need to be a RIGHT to repair.The costs of fighting an ISDS case are astronomical. For example, Australia passed a law that required large warning labels on tobacco packaging, they were sued in an ISDS case and the battle dragged on for years. Although they finally won, the cost was in the tens of millions of dollars to get that victory. You would think, how could it possibly break the law to protect consumers?I would too.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 03:58:24 am
content: I love repair, and would love to see spare parts available. But everything has consequences. The capital spent on maintaining those stocks will have to come from somewhere, probably new product development. Those forced long product lives will also reduce the demand for new stuff. It feels good to repair your 10-20 year old PC, but those who have done it feel the pain of a slow machine with limited graphics.Those unintended consequences lurk everywhere. The fuel taxes in the US and I presume in much of the rest of the world started as a way of making those who used the roads needed by these newfangled gas powered machines pay for them. And it works pretty well. Most road funding here over the last seven or eight decades has come from these taxes. But as the gas eaters go away, so does the source of funding for roads. And green as they are electric cars still need roads. It is appropriate for them to join in paying for road use. And as they become dominant it will become necessary.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 04:09:06 am
content: IMO right to repair with cars is huge when it comes to non essential control systems stuff (anything but breaks). Honda sells like a $50 pcb for 900 dollars for controlling a few steppers in the ventilation system ..Storage requirement for 900$ savings : 1cm2 IC. Everything else is bog standard. Its about like 10000 times smaller then then the subassembly. Everything you might not be able to get for a car would easily fit in a match box probobly. Mail me a envelope please, I will keep it for you1 match box of unique micro processors for 300 million people has a volume of 15x15x15 feet. Nice cube worth god knows how much. Just park 2 tractor trailers in the parking lot of a dennys or something. Worth more then a few trillion dollars

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2021, 07:39:20 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on January 16, 2021, 03:58:24 amI think their plan is to privatize everything (roads included). That's part of why they are holding off on the infrastructure for now. The other is outsourcing/offshoring. Its cheaper. But sourcing labor locally post GPA seems likely to be FTA-illegal if others are cheaper. So it seems they are just doing nothing for now.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2021, 05:12:18 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on January 15, 2021, 02:09:14 amWOW! WHAT a concept!!!Umm, actually, I've been doing this for at least 40 years, probably more. Yes, my first fix was a furnace gas control valve with I was about 12.This particular valve used a heater and a bimetal strip to lift the pilot valve on a pilot-actuated servo valve to turn on the gas burner.Our HVAC guy (they didn't call them that back then) could only replace the whole gas valve at huge expense. I diagnosed the problem asflexing of the wires to the heater, and wrapped some wire around a pencil, so the flexing was spread across some length, not right at theconnection. That fix worked for something like 20 years until my dad sold the house. Much better than replacing the valve every year or two.I'm getting ready to replace the main bearing and seal on our washing machine for the 3rd time. It seems the seal wears out every 4 years andthen the water corrodes the bearings. That's a big job, but much cheaper than replacing the whole washing machine.As for computers, my main desktop has been running continuously since 2014, and was a used Dell Optiplex from eBay. The Optiplex is their commercial-grade line, I don't know what is different about them, but they are extremely rugged. The one before that was also an Optiplex, used on eBay, and I ran it for 12 years before deciding to upgrade. It is STILL running at my mother-in-law's house.Jon

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2021, 06:02:39 pm
content: Wouldn't you hate it if after just a few years, its manufacturer declared your computer EOL and refused to sell you some otherwise unobtainable part that was essential to the operation of your computer, which otherwise was in perfect condition?Quote from: jmelson on January 17, 2021, 05:12:18 pm

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2021, 09:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 16, 2021, 01:55:17 amAsk for a quote on replacement parts (not even workshop time/fitting). I found plastic parts costing more than the replacement value of the whole vehicle! Just because they do have the parts available (1 month lead time shipped from offshore) doesn't mean they are economically viable repairs.That old joke: the worlds most expensive car? one assembled at home from spare parts.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 03:38:07 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 17, 2021, 06:02:39 pmUnlike cell phones and such, desktops (and even laptops) can be opened up and consist of numerous separate components, which can be swapped out.I've never bought ANYTHING direct from Dell. There are, essentially, computer junkyards that tear apart computers that may or may not have anything wrong with them, and sell the parts for a SONG! But, I almost never have to do that, anyway, as these Dell Optiplex models have just been amazingly reliable.Jon

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 04:50:29 am
content: I'd love to see the price of consumer goods double or triple, right now they are artificially cheap to the extent that it's cheaper to throw something away and buy a new one which comes with indirect costs to the environment that aren't in the price tag at the store. Stuff used to be way more expensive, it was built to last and to be repaired. A whole industry existed around repairing goods, and due to the cost people didn't accept disposable junk.Being able to repair stuff has worked out very well for me. I've never paid money for a TV in my life and I've lost count of the number of them that have passed through my hands. My clothes washer and dishwasher were both free, my clothes dryer was only $50 and the only reason I paid anything for one is that it matches the washer. I've gotten cars for peanuts, a couple of them for free. Lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed eaters, generators, I've never paid anything for them.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 05:56:59 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 16, 2021, 01:55:17 amI'm not sure why you singled out apple here. In my experience, there are ton more people with old apple phones that are still going strong - well supported on their second replacement batteries etc than any other brand.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 06:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on January 18, 2021, 05:56:59 amIt happened to me - I had an old iPhone 4s that I liked... I upgraded iOS for no particular good reason (vague ideas of better security, compatibility, etc.) and it literally ruined the phone, it would get hot and the battery wouldn't even last a day (before, it ran fine for several days - there was no problem with the battery).I could live with that, if Apple had allowed me to revert back to the previous version of the OS and get me back up and running again. They don't permit that, though. Once you upgrade, that's it.I had to buy another phone.Needless to say, it was not an Apple.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 11:47:30 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on January 18, 2021, 06:03:54 pmThat's the thing I hate most about Apple, the one-way door on updates. I've locked down all of Apple's servers on my network after getting burned by their aggressive updating, usually to one release past when they really should have stopped updating older hardware and it becomes unusably slow with no way to roll it back. I finally broke down and updated my phone from iOS10 to iOS14 because some apps I needed required a later version for whatever reason and after extensive research I decided I could live with it. It's usable but even so I noticed a substantial reduction in batter life, I used to be able to go all day without any problem at all. Unfortunately iOS10 was incredibly buggy, reminders which I used to rely on heavily never worked right anymore, they would fail to pop up all the time which made them completely useless. I still miss iOS 6, it had a gorgeous polished UI, which they completely threw out after the stupid pissing match between Scott Forstall and Jony Ive.I'd LOVE to kick Apple to the curb but Android its terrible in its own way and I use iMessage to communicate with friends across the border. I wish they could be forced to open up iMessage so it could be used on other platforms.