Repaired Flir A20 high drift? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 07:30:50 am
content: I recently bought a A20 "for parts or not working" on Ebay to play around with. The camera did not power up and was drawing too much current. Opening the unit up, a dual FET (type SI4948) on the power supply board was clearly blown. This was due to a short circuit behind it. The short circuit was a shorted tantalum cap. Replacing both the FET and the cap fixed the power issue and the camera boots up now.But it is showing excessive & unstable drift (I think). Attached a plot where the camera was pointing at a wall inside our house. From a cold start the drift in certainly worse during the first hour, but also after that is it not very stable and sometimes becomes again worse.The image does appear fine, no obvious distortions are visible. Plots were made with the 30-day trail version of "ThermaCAM Researcher 2.10 PRO"Questions:- is this normal behavior for an A20?- if not normal, where would I look to fix this? The FCC certainly works OK as I can see it moving in front of the sensor when the lens is removed.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 10:22:17 am
content: Not unreasonable for an uncorrected camera, it is plotting the room temperature changes - I guess your heating goes off at 23:00 and turns on at 07:00 ?Most cameras are several times more sensitive to case / lens / sensor temperature than to the scene. As such I'm thinking that one or more sensing device (thermistor, LM45 etc) is disconnected thermally from the intended item it should be tracking, or maybe even open circuit / reporting a fixed temperature.Does the camera try to sense lens temperature ?The main flag sensing thermistor is OK - you get back to the right wall temperatures at each flag operation.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 12:18:04 pm
content: Quote from: Bill W on April 09, 2023, 10:22:17 amYes, that is indeed the caseQuote from: Bill W on April 09, 2023, 10:22:17 amYes, there are 3 temperature sensors connected with a flat flex (analog devices DS1624). I cannot find an option to read out these temperatures (maybe in some hidden service menu?). This DS1624 chip also has a memory function to store the lens type and serial number, and that is read out correctly, so at least there is communication with the DS1624 installed in the lens. The other 2 sensors are in the compartment where the FCC sits, and in the compartment where the thermal sensor sits. No idea if there is communication with these,It would indeed make much sense that on of these it reporting an incorrect temperature. When I have some time in the lab, I will try to read out the 2-wire communication to check if all temperature are reported correctly, unless somebody knows another (easier) way to read these out?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 12:33:28 pm
content: When I connect via the analog BNC out, there is a menu that reports the "optics temperate". It does appear to be stuck at 26.9°C, which could explain the issue. I removed the lens and spayed some canned air on the sensor to make it cold, but the value remain 26.9°C (even when I rebooted the camera to ensure the value being read out).Remark: in the attached screen shot the camera was not pointing at the wall...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 12:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 09, 2023, 12:33:28 pmA bit of RTFM, and temperature source = value means the temperature is fixed to a user defined value. So it could be just a configuration issue. It appears this setting is only accessible via the internal webpage

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 01:08:10 pm
content: It was indeed fixed to 26.9°C, but it appears I cannot change the source from the user menu. Trying now to access the service menu (password required...)

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 01:18:47 pm
content: I think the password is "3vlig", but this gives the following error page:Access Error: Page not foundwhen trying to obtain /service/service.aspCannot open URL /service/service.aspOther passwords give no reaction, so I suppose "3vlig" is correct but some browser issue or something.I have to leave now, some more playing later this evening...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 07:55:00 pm
content: Just an update: I spent the last 3 hours testing various browsers (Edge, Chrome, IE and Mozilla), installing different Java versions, adding the camera IP-address to the Java security exceptions, disabling firewalls and internet security options, but cannot get it to work.The user pages work in the "basic simple mode", but also do not work in the "normal mode" as shown in the manual (screen stuck at "loading application"). When I try to open the "http://192.168.xxx.xxx/user/result.asp" page to see a live view of the camera, I see a java app loading, but then it shows an error "NoClassDefFoundError" (javax/media/ControllerListener).This makes me want to, so I am done for now...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 08:55:51 am
content: Some more playing around this morning. It tried running chrome without security with the following command line instruction:"C:\Program Files\Google\Chrome\Application\chrome.exe" --disable-web-security --user-data-dir="D:/Temp/ChromeDev"Did this not solve my issue.Also tried debugging with the Firefox developer version, which lead me to think that ActiveX support was needed seeing the errors generated.Looking for ActiveX support in a modern browser I found the "IE Tab" plugin for Chrome (https://www.ietab.net/). This allows you to emulate IE7 to IE11. With this I have some partial success, as now I could load the user pages to modify the temperature source, but still could not access the service menu, and also could not display a live image.So hopefully this fixes the drift, but now I am also curious what else could be done in the service menu

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 01:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 10, 2023, 08:55:51 amThat modified settings does not appears to have changed anything (or at least nothing obvious). So far I have not succeeded in opening the service page. I have only 1 pc that has a firewire port, and unfortunately it does not allow to run a VM to test with an older OS (win10 32 bit is not supported by VMware player). Will try to fiddle with it some more at a later stage, but currently I am running out of ideas how to get those service pages working on my machine.

author: railrun
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 01:26:21 pm
content: Have you checked if the service.asp is in this folder?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 02:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: railrun on April 10, 2023, 01:26:21 pmCurrently I do not know how to browse the files on this camera, so I cannot check this. I did try FTP (anonymous and user "flir"), but got no response.

author: barelectricbear
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 03:18:27 pm
content: If you own a RaspberyPI you can try installing Wine and it has an older IE browser.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 04:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: barelectricbear on April 12, 2023, 03:18:27 pmHi, do not own a Rapsbery PI, but it also does not appear to have a native firewire port (maybe some HATs exist that do that). I will probably by an older laptop for cheap, as this will come in useful for different experiments also (like those that need a "real" serial port)

author: barelectricbear
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 06:33:01 pm
content: You are better off buying an older laptop, preferably with WinXP already installed, and most laptops built between 2005 to 2015 will come with a mini firewire connection.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 07:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: barelectricbear on April 12, 2023, 06:33:01 pmThis is what I did. I bought an old laptop with WinXP SP3, and now everything in the "user" section works as expected. I can see live images and fully control the camera via the browser. All java apps load correctly in IE8Unfortunately I still get:Access Error: Page not foundwhen trying to obtain /service/service.aspCannot open URL /service/service.aspwhen trying to open the service pages, so these are indeed probably not present on the camera at all.Does anyone know another trick to access the service menu?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 01:54:05 pm
content: I get the same response to 3vlig on the A20, A40 and S60 cameras.These cameras predate the removal of Service Menu’s by FLIR so I hope the files are still present, but activating the service menu has eluded me to date. In truth I spent no time investigating the matter but I may revisit it.Well done for buying a vintage WinXP laptop. Such a laptop can be very useful indeed and I would not be without one.Be aware that WinXP had its IEEE1394 TCP/IP support removed in one of the service packs. If needed, you will have to run an early version of Windows XP.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 02:09:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 22, 2023, 01:54:05 pmThanks for testing this. Good to know it is not only my camera!Quote from: Fraser on April 22, 2023, 01:54:05 pmI have been using VMs for that, and this covered most of my uses, but I do agree it is useful to have an actual pc (that has a real serial port and PC-card slot). For 50€ including shipping there was no excuse for not having one if you like to experiment with old measurement gearQuote from: Fraser on April 22, 2023, 01:54:05 pmI am not sure this is correct. I am running XP SP3, and also on Win10 32bit IEEE1394 TCP/IP support was available. Maybe it was once removed and than reintroduced due to many complaining?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 03:00:16 pm
content: I managed to connect via FTP (using WinSCP) with username "flir" and password: "3vlig" port:"21" and no encryption.Instead of the IP address if used "IRCAMxxxx" with xxxxx the last 5 digits of the serial number of the camera. Before trying to access via FTP I did try to log in onto the service page with password "3vlig", not sure it this make a difference.Now to find some "useful" files...EDIT: login without password to access filesEDIT2: see filezilla settings below, I was getting sporadic results

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 03:05:37 pm
content: Interesting about WinXP IEEE1394 TCP/IP support. Thank you. I believe I read the warning a a thermal cameras user manual and clearly support was reintroduced which is greatFraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 03:14:13 pm
content: If appears a similar config file system is used as for the Ex and Exx series, with hopefully the same CRCEDIT: seems a different CRC check, as no #ID is in the fileAttached the config files (not too much in there)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2023, 03:33:53 pm
content: _Wim_Thank you for this discovery and for your efforts to discover the A series secretsNow I have a good reason to dig out my A20 and delve into its firmwareBest WishesFraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 05:15:00 am
content: Connection via FTP was not reliable via WinSCP. I had more luck with FileZilla using the attached settings. Mainly the advanced settings "dos with forward slash-separators" is important, which is a setting I am not sure is possible with WinSCP.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 05:46:41 am
content: Attached the complete back-up of the camera files.It appears indeed no service pages are available under the "web" folder. Mainly the "calib.reg" and "default.reg" contain more interesting configs to play around with.Like for example:.image.perf entry.image.perf.NETD entry.image.perf.NETD.SaveImages bool falsein default.regOff course the first goal is to figure out how the CRC is calculated, otherwise no modifications are possible...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 05:51:07 am
content: @Fraser or any other A40 owner, would be nice to see the config files for an A40, this can indicate what the potential "upgrades" could be...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 07:11:15 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 23, 2023, 05:46:41 amCRC code is resolved!Just delete the CRC32 from the text file and save it (be sure to leave the CRLF) on the previous line.Modify the file as desired, and then use this tool to generate a new CRC32 code:https://www.digitalvolcano.co.uk/hash.html

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 08:53:38 am
content: In "main.elf" some interesting text can be found:Code:image.perf.NETD.total.mKimage.perf.NETD.total.measureimage.perf.NETD.temporalimage.perf.NETD.spatialimage.corr.filter.globalActiveimage.corr.filter.noiseGenimage.corr.filter.temporalimage.corr.filter.spatialPal Ntsc Riven serial no: Myst serial no: FPA serial no: FPA size:Time constant : Responsitivity [cts/C]: Temporal noise : Spatial noise low : Spatial noise high : Temporal row noise :Steady state video : Step response : Operability [%*100]: Non operating rows: Non operating columns: Ready time :ATP date: ATP time: ATP station: Integration time [%]: Video mode: BB low temp : BB high : Lens F [f*10]This means some artificial noise generation is at least possible... Before making mods, I am hoping to compare first with an A40 config file

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 11:48:47 am
content: I started to collect possible interesting text in "main.elf", see attached. Will continue this evening...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 12:08:19 pm
content: Hi _Wim_I will dig out my A40 later. I am currently mid-clear out of my garageHappy to send you the complete A40 file backup as soon as I download itFraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 02:18:15 pm
content: I found the following section in the "main.elf" fileCode:Built in testUsage: bit -{V|v|} {}Operator input is expected when "capital letter" tests activatedVverboose, display long result during testsvverboose, display short result during testsDDisplay results onlyaRun test that need no operatorARun all testkMABC PicKMABC Joystic/buttonsjMA7C PicJMA7C Joystic/buttonspPower PicfFocusSShutterrFilterlLenstTemp SensbBatteryiIrdaHwIIrdaConnectcClockxExpansion RamdFlash DiskOSoundQVideoELeft cover buttonsGKeyPadmMapshImagenVerifyg gain corrr pix replacementh histogramf framesumPAD portsBBeepsStatusLcdLLaserXLaserBtnTVisualYVisualImageyBacklightRRemote tempuViewFinderThis made me realize a terminal interface is problably available. After a bit of experimenting, I found it was possible to make a telnet connection via Putty.Entering the usual "help" got me a list of commands that the camera understandsSo even more options to play around with!Remark: for the monent the "built in test" (aka "bit") does not seem to respond

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 02:43:58 pm
content: The commands have been documented here apperently:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/enhance-a-old-flir-thermacam-e45/msg1792505/#msg1792505Thanks to joe-c for already figuring all of this out, make my job much easier

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 03:30:58 pm
content: A word of warning: currently I cannot login any longer, not via FTP and not via Telnet (also not after rebooting)I guess the following is the rootcause: before I found joe-c document, I was experimenting to get the "bit" command to work. Because I did not have to log in when I connected via Telnet I though maybe the "passwd" command was used to login. But this was to change the password, so I entered twice "3vlig".But I am afraid this added a cariage return/linefeed or other hidden character to the password, and hence I am not able to log in any longer with "flir/3vlig".So do not use the "passwd" command!

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2023, 06:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 23, 2023, 03:30:58 pmStill stuck on this very annoying issue.I am quite convinced this was caused by the default setting in putty "return key sends telnet new line instead of ^m", causing the password now to contain an additional newline character. I can however not find a way to correctly enter a newline character via telnet when entering the password. I thought this would be possible with "RealTerm", but so far I have not succeeded. Any tips are much appreciated.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 10:53:41 pm
content: _Wim_,Sorry to hear of your password issue.I hope you can work out what the new password is.I found my A40 today and hope to download it tomorrow. Have an A20M as well but that should be the same as your unit.Best WishesFraser

author: eliocor
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:36:05 am
content: Try to:- use the telnet terminal in 'raw' mode- do not use the 'Enter' key but instead use a direct combination of <Ctrl-J> and/or <Ctrl-M>- send your "supposed working" login string using macro keys.. good luck!

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 05:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: eliocor on April 25, 2023, 12:36:05 amThanks for your reply. I have already been experimenting with this using "realterm" where I can sent ASCII numbers instead of characters so I have full control over what I have sent. This way I can sent a newline (10) and or cariage return (13). I have also tested with using Ctrl-M instead. I have not use socket communication in raw mode, because I am unsure how to do the telnet layer.I tried adding different special characters to the password, but so far no luck. A screenshot of the origial password change via telnet (in putty) can be seen here attached. The used putty config also. Unsure which invisible characters were added by Putty after "3vlig". I did use the enter-key after entering 3-vlig. Currently I have tried ASCII (null) (LF) (CR) (STX) (ETX) (FF) but running out of ideas.Worst case I could try and write a small app to perform a brute force attach as the password in not long...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2023, 05:57:31 am
content: Just a quick update: so far I had no luck trying many combinations, so I am now trying the "brute force" route to see if somehow characters where changed due to keyboard layout issues or some other glitch.I am using this tool:https://www.whitelist1.com/2018/04/bruteforce-i-attacking-ftp-server-with.htmlResponce of the camera is quite slow, so only 2 passwords per second can be tested. With a password length of minimum 5 and (hopefully max 6) this would take around 6 days to test. If 7 characters, this would take 58 days

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2023, 06:11:27 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 29, 2023, 05:57:31 amJust realized that this off course will take much much longer, I was just thinking about number (so only 10 possible options per character). With the character set to max, this will take way too long. For now I will leave it running (as I am out of ideas), but this will not be a viable option also I am afraid.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 06:38:27 am
content: Some update. I generated a list of passwords to test. The list has 3 sections:"3vlig" + variable extra end charactervariable first character + "vlig" + variable extra end charactervariable extra first character + "3vlig" + variable end characterThe variable character go through all ASCII characters apart from {2, 3, 4,13, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 } as these can give issue with continuing the testing passwords.Same "bruter" tool will be used as above. This gives me approx 120.000 combinations, at an avarage test rate of 2.5 passwords/sec, a little more than 13 hours of testing time...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 08:55:16 am
content: So far no hit...Does somebody know if it is possible to update the firmware on these? This might reset the password to the default value. But there is no firmware available on the Flir support website, nor anything mentioned in the manuals about this.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 10:19:36 am
content: No firmware updates for these as it was a RTB update process. Firmware updates were usually provided during a “return for calibration check” event.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 10:28:23 am
content: You may have already considered this option, but have you thought about setting up a telnet link between two computers and monitoring what is actually transmitted when you enter 3vlig on the sending PC ? That may make it clear what was actually sent to the camera as the new password.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 11:12:38 am
content: _wim_I am going to have to do some research on the passwd command that you used as I recall that some cameras require a specific data format for the entered password…. That is to say, some expect a hash of the password to be entered whilst others use a specific format and syntax for the entry. Sadly there is the possibility that the password now set bears no resemblance to what you entered. The passwd command may not contain error checking on the entry. When service utilities change the password they can change the password form (for example, hash it) before it is saved in an effort to obfuscate it from prying eyes searching through the code. The camera firmware then reverses the obfuscation to check the user enter password against what was set by the service utility. Direct use of the passwd command may be risky without knowing what the camera firmware expects in that free text field.I will see what I can find out.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 07:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 30, 2023, 11:12:38 amThanks for this. It must be something like this, as the list I am currently checking has not worked yet (still 17.000 tries to go though). Once the Bruter tool has stopped, I will try to read out the 24C32 eeprom on the main processor board to see what is in there. Once I have a back-up of its contents, I will try to erase it, because it quite possible that will reset everything to default values.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2023, 07:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 30, 2023, 10:28:23 amThought about that, but I do not think this will learn me much, as a pure telnet connection should not alter the contents. Just the stop characters could be different (and maybe an additional start character from the previous transmission), but these should now have been covered by the above password list I am currently checking.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 05:51:04 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 30, 2023, 07:20:19 pmBruter has finished, but no password found...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 08:10:01 am
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on April 30, 2023, 07:20:19 pmSo I read out the 24C32 eeprom, and the password is in there in plain text (and 3vlig like I entered).I erased the eeprom contents, and I can now again connect via FTP and Telnet. But I did loose all of the information related to serial numbers and maybe some other info. But so far the camera still seems to work fine, I can capture images, connect via ThermaCam Researcher and get no error messages. So definitely an improvement, will try to experiment with the eeprom contect by just errasing the password section and leaving the other info intact.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 09:57:09 am
content: I have now reset the addresses from1C0to1DFto "FF", and this seems to work. I have again all serial number information, and login via FTP and telnet is now without any password. All functions seem to work fine, so I can finally continue without trying to "upgrade" the config files

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 11:05:33 am
content: _wim_This is excellent newsIt remains a mystery why the new 3vlig password entry would not work but at least you have now regained ftp accessI will get on with downloading the A40 with you.Keep up the good workFor information, the A20 and A40 come from different heritage lines. The A20 is from the old Ex series (not the later Ex we all know and love). The A40 is from the Pxx/Sxx series. They may share firmware similarities though.For those interested, it has been common in the industry to repurpose handheld industrial thermal camera designs for static camera development. The developers basically take the proven handheld camera design and just remove all the parts not needed for static camera deployments, such as the battery bay, viewfinder and in some cases, the user local control keypads. We are fortunate with the A20 and A40 that the user local control keypads were retained.The FLIR PM570 was adapted into the “320” static camera and actually used all the same PCB’s inside the modified casing. The “320” was sold under various model names including the “737” and an SC series science version. Why design new when you can adapt a current proven design.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 12:39:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 11:05:33 amYes, I also do not understand. I even wonder if it is not a bug in the passwd command.Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 11:05:33 amThey probably do share some firmware, as the web folder of my A20 even has an A40 image. So at least the web browser part is common between the two.Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 11:05:33 amDo you know what was special about the science versions? Did those camera's work as a sort of USB-licence for the science software packages? I ask because the following string was found inside of the firmware:"config.image.digital.1394Researcher"Would be very nice if this enabled some of them more expensive Flir software, so it at least could be used with this camera. I am aware there was an "A20MResearcher" version, but the flyer does not really specify if the licence was then imbedded in the camera.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 01:43:06 pm
content: No sadly FLIR have not used the cameras as a virtual licence dongle. Both Researcher & ResearchIR software came with its own licence in paper or HASP dongle form.From memory, Researcher can be run in demo mode for a period of time. ResearchIR 4 is also useable in demo mode.The FLIR Science cameras normally provide more software functions than the Preventative Maintenance versions of the same camera chassis. Science cameras were intended to be more versatile to meet the needs of lab and R&D users.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 01:48:35 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 01:43:06 pmI have been using ThermaCAM Researcher Pro 2.10 up till now in demo mode. I states a 30 day trail, and I am sure those days were counting down initially, but now it seems stuck on "30 days left", while I have not made any effort to hack this. It could however be it is now only a reduced function set, but as I have not used this software very much before, I cannot tell if this is the case.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 05:32:48 pm
content: Efforts to download my A40 firmware failed today. I am using Fiilezilla 3.0 on a WinXP Dell X300 laptop and I can gain access to the cameras server but not download the folders or their contents. Firefox places a question mark on the folders as though it cannot make sense of the contents. I tried logging into the A40 service mode but it made no difference. I also tried all available server types but only Default and Linux produced a file structure download. DOS failed to download the file structure.I have. I option to configure my FileZilla as per your image as mine is too old and the version 3.64 will not run on less than Windows 7.I do not have a FireWire equipped Windows 7 laptop to hand at the moment.Efforts to download the file set will continue another day. I attach pictures of the issue I was having and relevant menu settings. Setting Port 21 made no difference in my case.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 05:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 05:32:48 pmDid you try setting the server type to "dos"? I would expect this will do the trick..I should read before I postI will try on my XP machine to see which settings work there.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 05:58:21 pm
content: On my windows XP machine (SP3), the attached settings work ok (just copied the entire contents to the HD without issues). I do have a more recent version of FileZilla installed (3.8.0), if I remember correctly this was the latest version that runs on an 32bit machine.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 06:03:50 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on May 01, 2023, 05:58:21 pmThis was the reason I choose 3.8.0, not 32 bit, I did not remember correctly but just checked my notes:https://forum.filezilla-project.org/viewtopic.php?t=33573

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 06:54:48 pm
content: All is well.I used downloaded Filezilla 3.9.1 that is the true final release to support XP (3.8 is the official last release for XP).I selected "DOS" server and this time it workedI have attached the zipped A40 file downloadFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 06:58:24 pm
content: The "User" folder in "Web" appears the most interesting in terms of contents. A Configuration file is present

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 06:58:24 pmI would expect this would be mainly to upgrade the webpage functions, but probably not camera performance. For me the "default.reg" in the main folder seems the most interesting, as this is also were Flir added CRC "protection" to avoid us tampering with it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:09:38 pm
content: I was wondering where the actual OS resided amongst all these files..."Main.elf" looks likely.It will be interesting to have a good look around this file set. Thank you for your work detailing how to access the file set. If you need any files from my A20, feel free to let me know.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:09:57 pm
content: I am surprised both cameras (A20 & A40) have PID parameters defined for a TEC controller, yet they have different values (see comparison screenshot were left is A20 and right is A40).As far as I know, both are uncooled, so why?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:13:46 pm
content: I just noticed that the file set includes compressed (RAR) recovery volumes for Files and web kits. Nice to see thisClicking on one receives a "do you wish to recover this volume" response.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 07:13:46 pmHad not noticed these before. Indeed a nice feature when something is messed up!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:26:53 pm
content: Regarding the PID entries.Microbolometer cameras are uncooled but that does not mean that they do not employ temperature stabilisation. There are three distinct variations on temperature stabilisation systems used in microbolometer based thermal cameras.1. No heating or cooling : Offset tables are used to compensate for ambient and microbolometer die temperature changes. Microbolometer die runs in thermal equilibrium mode.2. Heated: The microbolometer die is heated to an operating temperature and then a combination of compensation tables and heater input manage the data from the microbolometer.3. Full heating and cooling temperature control using a peltier module and TEC. This approach permits the manufacturer to set the operating temperature of the microbolometer die for best performance and temperature stability. Ambient temperature changes are countered to keep the microbolometer die at the set temperature. A fully temperature stabilised microbolometer die may be "tuned" for best performance by the manufacturer. A TEC temperature controlled microbolometer is a great performer but the camera has to provide a TEC and the power to run the Peltier module.The A20 and A40 are professional Industrial cameras that may operate in widely varying ambient temperatures. They contain a fully temperature controlled microbolometer die. Hence the references to a TEC in the file set.Cooled cameras are a completely different beast.Fraser

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 07:26:53 pmVery interesting, I did not know that.Just compared the binary files, they are identical, but the A40 has an additional one (indi.bin).The default.reg files are very similar, with the main differences more due to different sensor and default config of measurement tools, but no obvious performance increases spotted so far.I was hoping to find one of these:.image.perf.NETD.total.mK int32 0.image.perf.NETD.total.measure int32 0.image.perf.NETD.temporal int32 0.image.perf.NETD.spatial int32 0The above I have tried before I received the A40 files, but did not produce any noticeable effect.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 07:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 06:58:24 pmI did a quick comparison of the configuration file contents and the files under the web folder, the main difference appears to be that a different login principle is used. For the reset I found a function related to motorized zooming, but apart from that, everything looks identical.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 08:03:39 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on May 01, 2023, 07:09:38 pmMain.elf is very different between both camera's. There are some common sections, but I would say they are 80% different.

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 08:16:31 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on May 01, 2023, 07:59:59 pmAccording to the "filekit" info text, it seems the A40 is from 14-Jun-2006 and my A20 is from 15-Apr-2005. It seems the have upgraded the login principle in that period. It is probably perfectly possible to deploy the entire web folder of the A40 to my A20, but based on the comparison, not much will be gained, and there is always the risk of getting stuck again...

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2023, 08:32:42 pm
content: This might be worthwhile to experiment with on the A20 (in screenshot left is A40, right is A20)This was found in the calib.reg file

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 07:10:29 pm
content: Quote from: _Wim_ on May 01, 2023, 08:32:42 pmI set the values to zero on my A20 also, but do not see any difference. Anybody an idea what these (see attachment) would be doing? (left A20, right A40)"FTheor" is mentioned a couple of time, and on the A40 the value is always lower

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2023, 07:15:15 pm
content: "Minspan" was also consistently lower on the A40 vs the A20 (A20 had minspans that were 2x or 4x the value of the A40).I made them equal, but cannot say I see any visible difference.