Any good perfboard recommendation? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: thejoggingmat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 02:40:16 pm
content: So I've been using perfboards like these (in the sense that they have the exact same looking pads), which I bought from my local electronics mall, for a while:However, I find them absolutely deplorable to use. The unused boards also seem to deteriorate over time. Their pads are fragile: I wiggle jumper wires 3-4x, they separate from the board; I seat a 14pin IC into its socket gently, there is a 50-50 chance the pads separate from the board. 60/40 rosin core solder (1mm & 0.8mm) doesn't feel like sticking on the pads without lots of persuasiveness (ie: a massive amount of solder), and when I apply rosin flux to the pads and heat with my iron, the pads also have a 50-50 chance of liberating themselves clean from their board prison.I've seen one of those fiberglass-like green-coloured boards that cost 3x more for half the size:They look and feel of a higher quality. Should I plunge in and try out?If not, any good quality perfboards I can order and ship inexpensively to me?

author: kerrsmith
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 03:37:13 pm
content: I have found these prototype boards to be really good - they are also pretty cheap so you are not risking too much to test them out (plus you get 40 of them):http://www.banggood.com/40Pcs-FR-4-Double-Side-Prototype-PCB-Printed-Circuit-Board-p-995732.html?p=2D100314686672015046They are double sided and seem really good quality - I have been using them for a while and have not had any issues with them. The solder flows in to the holes well and you get four different sizes.For me they have been really handy as I now always have a prototype board about the right size so I no longer need to cut up perf board which tends to leave rough looking edges.

author: MatthewEveritt
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 03:54:01 pm
content: Yep, I've used both and the decent FR4 through-hole plated kind are much nicer to work with.

author: homebrew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 04:10:46 pm
content: Quote from: thejoggingmat on February 08, 2016, 02:40:16 pmThat is pretty much what one would expect. They don't deteriorate in that sense but rather oxidize, because the copper is not protected in any way. It gets especially worse if the boards are handled a lot and taken out of their packings ... An abrasive pad might work to remove the oxidation layer ...Also very normal is that the pads delaminate if they are overheated. Use a modest temperature and do not exceed 3 seconds of soldering time.I've successfully used these types of perfboard for more than 15 years ...Yes sure, plated through FR4 boards are much nicer but also much more expensive. As always ... you get what you pay for ...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 05:08:37 pm
content: I use the cheap Chinese green FR4 with plated through-holes and they're great (other than that those fools used the same silk screen for both sides of the board, so the XY coordinates on each side of the board are different, making them nearly useless!). Take the time to comparison shop on eBay/aliexpress for them -- you'll find MASSIVE price differences on them. You'll find weird shit like a pack of 20 costing three times as much as the 10-pack from the same vendor.Here are my most recent purchases of these (and a few other handy boards):http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-X-1-Square-Prototype-Circuit-Board-Kit-PCB-Proto-/171267678767?hash=item27e059622f(Note:These have strips of 3 holes linked under the solder mask!)http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-40X60X1-6MM-2-54mm-Double-White-Side-Printed-Circuit-PCB-board-Programming-/221788474178?hash=item33a39f8b42http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-Prototyping-PCB-Circuit-Board-Stripboard-94x53mm-S-/260848705054?hash=item3cbbcb5e1e(Not FR4, but strips instead of individual pads)http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Double-Side-Prototype-PCB-Tinned-Universal-Breadboard-5x7-cm-50mmx70mm-FR4-/400985300997?hash=item5d5c962005http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-Double-Side-Prototype-PCB-Bread-board-Tinned-Universal-40x60-mm-FR4-/281677183686?hash=item419544bac6http://www.ebay.com/itm/10Pcs-Double-Side-Prototype-PCB-Bread-board-Tinned-Universal-3x7-cm-30x70-mm-/281679984734?hash=item41956f785ehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/50PCS-Double-Side-Prototype-PCB-Bread-board-Tinned-Universal-2x8-20mmx80mm-FR4-/381374535525?hash=item58cbb19765http://www.ebay.com/itm/20x-SOP8-SOP-SSOP8-TSSOP8-SMD-To-DIP8-Adapter-0-65X1-27mm-Converter-PCB-Board-/371236706047?hash=item566f6e96ffhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-New-SO-SOP-SOIC-SSOP-TSSOP-MSOP14-to-DIP-14-Adapter-PCB-Board-Converter-F03-/171216569279?hash=item27dd4d83bfAs for the cheap phenolic boards that aren't tinned and thus oxidize and become harder to solder: What I do when I buy them is to completely coat them with rosin flux. This is a time-honored method for halting oxidation and maintaining solderability. For this, I actually use a homemade flux made of about 15% rosin dissolved in IPA.I haven't had trouble with the pads separating from the board altogether. AFAIK, this could be either just a poor quality board, or excessive heat when soldering. (Or both.)

author: keethrax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2016, 06:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2016, 05:08:37 pmThanks! Haven't run into that. Now I know to keep an eye out.

author: thejoggingmat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 02:23:46 am
content: Quote from: kerrsmith on February 08, 2016, 03:37:13 pmThanks for the link! I went ahead and ordered 2 of the 40piece 'kits'. I've been searching for 'perfboard 50pcs' on evilBay and it always came up with the brown ones.

author: thejoggingmat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 02:34:24 am
content: Quote from: keethrax on February 08, 2016, 06:39:17 pmWow... I wonder why they do that...

author: thejoggingmat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 02:54:42 am
content: Quote from: homebrew on February 08, 2016, 04:10:46 pmI found it extremely difficult to solder the brown boards without elevated temperatures and more contact time (>5s). The solder doesn't want to stick if I don't. Applying flux beforehand seems to delaminate the boards I have. Probably it's because my boards are over a year old..Unfortunately though, my soldering was absolutely rubbish when I first bought the brown boards so I can't really comment on how they were last time.I ordered some FR4 boards from China, and will try to get some as well locally to play around.

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 03:12:56 am
content: I used stripboards for most of my career. They have strips of copper that are perforated. The strips form half of a pcb and the parts and a few short jumper wires form the other half. The strips were cut with a gentle drill bit kind of tool, then each strip was used for many parts of a circuit.Stripboard was called Veroboard long ago. I designed the parts layout and connections so that the board was a small as possible. Each board looked so good that it was sold as the finished product (special one-of-a-kind circuits). Some logic circuits were huge. The only boards that had the copper coming off were from Radio Shack and old ones from Korea (same thing?).

author: Renegade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 04:52:05 am
content: Beginner perspective here, so take it for what you will.I've used both the brown and green boards pictured in the OP, and found the green ones easier to use/solder on.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2016, 05:46:43 am
content: Its no good just applying flux to the bare copper pad boards unless they are really new or come with a peel-off plastic film to prevent oxidization like good quality stripboard used to.They have to be cleaned to bright copper with a fine abrasive pad, then all the dust removed before fluxing. Also you need to use a hard rosin flux dissolved in alcohol, not a paste or gel flux as it must dry to form a non-tacky protective layer on the pads. Also you need to give it enough drying time, as the holes are often punched, not drilled, resulting in micro-cracks and residual alcohol in them can cause bubbling that could pop a pad when soldering. 24H at room temperature should do it, or a few minutes with a hairdrier or a hot air gun on low heat.If you are stuck with reworking an old bare copper stripboard or padboard, you'll need a fiberglass pencil brush to clean the oxide off the pads as you cant sand the whole surface once any joints have been made, + you'll need a flux pen of liquid rosin RMA flux. Gel/paste fluxes need too much cleanup, which is a P.I.T.A on populated perfboad.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 10:25:00 pm
content: Do any companies make impedance-correct stripboard for RF stuff?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2016, 11:00:29 pm
content: Quote from: thejoggingmat on February 09, 2016, 02:23:46 amOn eBay, you need to search for "double side PCB" to find the glass epoxy boards.(And I wouldn't call it perfboard unless it was a plain board with no copper at all, like classic Vector board.)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 12:49:14 am
content: Quote from: cdev on February 10, 2016, 10:25:00 pmYou used to be able to get long thin PCBs containing a single long 50/100/75ohm track on 1.6mm single-sided self-adhesive FR4. Cut to length, and stick on your groundplane. Brain failure means I've forgotten the manufacturer's name, yet again - not that it matters since you can't buy them anymore.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 01:54:53 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 11, 2016, 12:49:14 amWas it made by Circuit-Stik?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 09:41:47 am
content: Quote from: Audioguru on February 09, 2016, 03:12:56 amI generally prefer strip board too.I also like other types of prototyping board which are handy for ICs.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:03:53 am
content: Quote from: edavid on February 11, 2016, 01:54:53 amThat name doesn't ring a bell, but that is a weak statement. It is possible they were sold under different names, of course.Nowadays it would be economical to get a Chinese house to fab them for you.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 10:25:41 am
content: Quote from: thejoggingmat on February 08, 2016, 02:40:16 pmWhat? Don't you solder the socket firmly seated *on* the PCB? Or you have had very bad luck with your el-cheapo boards, I've got a box full of mixed sizes of boards that looks like yours and have seldom had any problems unless I severely overheat the pads while soldering - something that can easily happen unless the board is cleaned and fluxed before using them, they are a bit hard to solder as-is.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2016, 02:28:36 pm
content: It's discussions like these that remind me why I pretty much do everything I can on a cheap pcb from somewhere like dirtypcbs.... Prototype on a breadboard, carefully transpose into a schematic, lay the board out, order, and no more hand point to point soldering.With that in mind, my $0.02....When I do need to do stuff like this (aka a one-off prototype or I can't wait), I generally prefer the boards which pretty much mimic a breadboard.Me and true stripboard (where you cut traces) don't get along very well. For whatever reason I've never mastered cutting traces. I seem to either not get one cut, or I slip and cut two neighboring traces. (ok, a bit of an exxageration but not much of one). Particularly evil are the ones with strips horizontally on one side and vertically on the other. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Actually I'm probably doing it wrong.The breadboard-style (or similar to breadboard) style makes it simple to create 'mini nodes'. Not such a big fan of the ones with the 'power stripes' down the middle of the board (under where the traces are) - too easy to create a bridge.My second choice (and probably first for more 'analog' type designs with few IC's) is just plain perfboard without any copper on it. The ones with plated through holes (but not bare copper) are ok, but I've had too many problems related to the copper on the board. If I get a good FR4 with solder mask and plated through holes (and hasl solder on the board), then things are ok.One note: If you get one with bare copper, get some steel wool or some of the green scrubbies and buff the copper before using it. It should be bright and shiny. If it's tarnished at all, you're going to run into issues soldering to it, and with the cheaper perfboards (phenolic paper instead of FR4), the pads will come off before the flux can clean the oxides off of the board.