New Solaradge Inverters with No display App/internet ONLY bullshit - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 01:55:29 am
content: What a jokehttps://www.pvo-int.com/en/solaredge-introduces-inverters-without-display/QuoteYou should never ever need a phone or wifi for the functionality of setting it up.QuoteWell I need it.How can they assume what the customer may not want.*Says who?Very assumptious and insulting towards the user where the inverter information is made much more difficult to see that depends on a finite set of things. Sounds to me like a very stupid idea. What when it goes wrong and it becomes unresponsive through the wifi? Wouldn't that tell me bugger all?I'd want a screen on the unit, powered by the unit with buttons to configure it, with the information showing right there at all times and to help me diagnose it without dependency of anything else and show me information when an alarm goes off when I am by it. Even some of the inverters I was quoted not only had a screen that will tell you stuff but had an alarm light too.ThoseSimple step-by-step instructionsappear to lead to many more things.Transcript:QuoteUtter bullshit.Well at least it shows the data through the application wifi connection without the need of internet like recently Enphase.You should not need to do any of that just to setup an inverter.QuoteI had a Foxess inverter installed many weeks before and it worked straight out the box as I was watching the workmen setting it up and none of that nonsense above. It was very easy, when the electrician put it on the wall, looked at checklist, set a few things with the controls, wrote some stuff down, did some tests and with the battery certified it and took a few pictures.They didn't need to waste time 'pissing and farting' about over a wifi signal, phone, internet, Google Playstore account sign in, app, 'sign in to that', webhosting, firmware upgrade, activation and commissioning through the portal or "app" in order for it to start operating.This trend seems to be becoming ridiculous with more manufacturers requiring their products to need internet and a whole load of other finite things that is not needed. Counterproductive when these finite things disappear.What do you think?Changed the title to something resembling it a bit better.

author: Helio_Centra
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 02:20:54 am
content: Thanks, I hate it.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 03:29:52 am
content: Quote from: Helio_Centra on October 07, 2022, 02:20:54 amKill it with fire.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 01:15:58 pm
content: Solar edge made in ChinaAssume the HW, FW, SW is backdoored.jon

author: ZigmundRat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 01:34:11 pm
content: It *is* utter bullshit. What happens 5 or 10 years from now when the device support (phone/tablet) is gone? Tons of issues with this (as you outline in your post). But this has been a trend for some time now. I just don’t buy these kinds of products. In this case especially there are MANY alternatives - buy one of them instead.BTW, my new SMA SunnyBoy inverter has WiFi, but also Ethernet. I think you can still get RS485 interface too. Although they like you to create a SunnyPortal account and report your stats this is not required. You can provision and operate it fully offline via the emnbedded web server. It’s also open enough you can do your own stats collection via MODBUS.There are other offerings in the market that provide a similar experience. These are the kinds of products I like to support.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 01:47:57 pm
content: Quotesorry sir that option is only available on tesla models

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 04:11:52 pm
content: Quote from: ZigmundRat on October 07, 2022, 01:34:11 pmI had a Sunnywebox with my previous 4kw Sunnyboy inverter that had ethernet of course. I remembered there were slots in the back the Sunnywebbox where where you could mount other modules.SunnyWebbox built in webserver and datalogger 2012 to 2019:I did have a few problems but that turned to be the power supply all along.The Foxess 6kw inverter that was installed some weeks ago has a built in ethernet port that supports pc/third party monitoring as mentioned in the manual with modbus and is now working with a Homeassistant appliance without the need of a "Smart wifi stick" thing that the manufacturer wanted me to get where goes through their website in order to monitor and datalog it which I told them was a big nono.https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.solaredge.comQuoteQuote

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2022, 10:32:12 pm
content: Solar Edge 17000whttps://www.segen.co.uk/product/solaredge-17000w-three-phase-inverter-no-display/QuoteBuzzword bullshit:sophisticated, digital control technology, efficient power conversion architecture, best-in-class reliability, fixed-voltage technology.1.So sophisticated it lacks a display and buttons to set it up.2.Which is what firmware?3.Look they are saying "please" sounds to me like begging that you update the firmware during the "Setapp" commissioning process.Pathetic4.It's new "comms" board and design is so "sophisticated", "superior", "efficient" and "best in class" unlike their older models that had displays and buttons that possibly was configurable and worked out of the box, that the new ones depends on and can only be setup with a phone, wifi signal, router, "app", internet, google play store account, Soleredge account and the manufacturer's webhosting to be in existence and supported.5.Rubbish. It doesn't need to be done like that it should work straight away out the box like many of the others I have seen.6.Digital control technologywhere it would only allow you to use a phone and the above has to be in existence for it to start working.What a poor excuse for an inverter that appears like it won't work out of the box without a finite set of things and a lot of messing about.In other words they just made more difficult to setup and trying to defend or justify it being a good thing using some fancy sounding buzzwords.Unfortunately I can't seem to find any reviews about this new screenless model yet.Just found the faq pdf:QuoteQuoteSo it is impossible for it work out of the box without a phone and internet.Joke: The inverter is so smart and intelligent and the customers are so damn stupid and confused, it is impossible for them to set it up that they need a phone and an app, internet and US to do it.https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar-panels-for-home/solar-panel-system-equipment/407281-new-solar-edge-inverters-no-screenQuoteI didn't know this nosense had been going on for a few years, I thought it was announced in early 2020.If that was me I'd be fuming the fact that it was sold with a built in display.QuoteI'd say they do have one over the homeowner.Fine way to treat a customer by swapping them over something where they loose features that were brought and paid for.I think this might be worse than Enphase as at least you can install theirs and start using it without all that nonsense from what I found out not including the monitoring side.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2022, 03:35:22 pm
content: ...What Helio said;"I hate it"

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2022, 09:35:46 pm
content: I found some old documents (see attachments) from 2016 from searching google for older versions of this inverter:http://www.europe-solarshop.com/solaredge-se17k.htmlThe only rubbish I can see so far in one of them:http://www.europe-solarshop.com/documents/solaredge/se-inverter-installation-guide.pdfQuoteI found that it already supports modbus via ethernet for pc third and third party monitoring with a document detailing the registers they use under the Sunspec alliance:https://discourse.nodered.org/t/solaredge-modbus-registers-sunspec/37683QuoteNow that sounds pretty sensible to me.So the same model produced before didn't need all that bullshit, a phone, internet, hosting and whole load of finite things to get it to work.For those who said they had their faulty inverters swapped over for this new pile of piss version, I wonder if in the UK whether they'd have rights and to demand for like for like from the manufacturer (model with a display) or have another inverter installed from a different manufacturer of the same spec fitted?I wonder what would have happened if my Foxess went faulty and the contractors were going to swap it over with a inferior pile of piss version that lacked, screen, controls, needed broadband, phone/app, webhosting which I won't as that was actually a requirement in the contract not to. That would mean they would have take it back and sort out another solution to make it right the way it was before.They should have called these things by a different model.http://www.europe-solarshop.com/solaredge-se17k.htmlOld version of model with display 2016:SolarEdge SE17K Three Phase Solar InverterNew version of same model number without display:https://www.solarenergypoint.it/shop/solar-edge-inverter-trifase-se17kSOLAREDGE SE17K – INVERTER TRIFASE 17 KWJoke: Like that large SolarEdge sticker is going to compensate and make me happy by how pretty and trendy it looks.QuoteVery stupid why they should call them the same name when,it has a new comms boardthat is different where it lacks features (screen and buttons) and demands (or lock the user in before they can use it) for things that were absolutely not needed before now at the expense and inconvenience of the customer.Or maybe it was their plan to do a switcheroo scam on their customers down the line with the warranty and on this occasion it saves them costs of a screen, buttons and lumber it all on the customers phone and a bunch of finite things.https://old.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/cmvywz/installers_anyone_having_problems_with_solaredge/QuoteThree years ago and that says a lot. What do they do, they hide the screen in their next batch of inverters so they don't communicate at all when they fail.Surprise SurpriseQuotehttps://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.solaredge.com?sort=recency&stars=1&stars=2QuoteInteresting. Charging for things that should be covered under the warranty.https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/stay-away-from-solaredge-inverter.201110/QuoteMy SunnyBoy 4KW inverter has worked from 2012 when it was installed to 2019 when I moved and has never ever failed during that time.I was quoted for one of these solar Edge from a company and I am so pleased we didn't choose it.https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/cm4zl7/solaredge_inverters_failure_rate/QuoteQuoteQuoteLooking at the article somewhere in that Reddit thread that focuses on their microinvertershttps://www.mcelectrical.com.au/solaredge-inverter-optimiser-review/QuoteQuoteQuoteGlad they changed their tune and admitted to the failures on their microinverters.I didn't have any microinverter or optimizer installed for this reason as it is a house and it took about a day for the company to put up scaffold.Microinverters were actually offered, (I can't remember which brand) as an option with the company that did the previous solar panel system in 2012 but was told later they stopped selling them for new customers as they kept on blowing up and costing them labour.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 04:52:47 am
content: they cheapen the shit out of it, the old one had a aluminum box, the new one is metalized plastic without a displaybut you should worry about the capacitors, not the user interface. any of these things is only going to be as good as its components no matter how you set it up. Would trade most features for good capacitors and transistors. not ones that leak and cause the device to failsomehow that old solar edge box with the display everyone seems to like had some dodgy yet good looking caps in it that were failing quick and taking the system out.seriously when a beast power electronics circuit fails it fails, you want it not to fail more then anything, nothing can cure that. fuck inverter repairs. you gon be scraping goo for a while sondo NOT get these without a warranty.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 05:41:28 pm
content: I want good components too but if it doesn't work out of the box and requires internet then that is a nono as well for me as wellThat worried me a bit and it's too late.I am not sure which caps are in the inverter that was supplied and it has a warranty sticker on it.That is one thing I should have asked the manufacturers.The nearest I can find is for a different series:https://www.fox-ess.com/three-phase/I believe they may not always get the components they are advertised with.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 06:13:33 pm
content: SE had a defect in their foil capacitors on the inverter that you like, it would limit to about 70VDC and despite your access to diagnostics it would give a error code to send to manufacturer.Unknown if you can replace them, but its heavy soldering, expensive caps and conformal coating, quite a bit of work to fix it.I also HIGHLY recommend adding a MOV-surge protection box near the inverter to protect it from the power company (like whole house protection). They have a few MOV but its not enough when its hooked up right near the circuit box.I was hoping the money went from the chassis and interface to x-raying capacitorsits built similar to a TIG welding machine.The fact is unfortunately that if you manage to get the thing to work, it will probobly keep working, until a component breaks down. If I had to choose, I would rather take the struggle during startup (yes, its a struggle with tech support etc) then have to keep replacing big ass heavy boxes. Still prefer the phone to UPS store. And Of course they will keep changing the mounting bracket and shit on you with every generation.I think its just one of those things where the demands are so high you can't trust a manufacturer even if its good and you have to spend money on your own tests. At least I would like to imagine they did something about it.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 04:30:47 am
content: I can't find anything about their foil capacitors failures and nothing detailing as to why so many are failing but I am not surprised how they cheapened it so much that failures somewhere were bound to happen. Thank you for sharing it.Joke: They possibly hit their 'cost down' approach so low they couldn't go any lower with the high failures.Trustpilot:QuoteSo they have the inverters in stock and are not giving them to customers who have been waiting for it under the warranty but are willing to give them to new and unsuspecting customers.QuoteStore with 600 in stock possibly waiting to fail to new customers.QuoteThat's a long time.I found this interesting about noncomplaint inverters sold onto the UK market.Quote*Might as well take the opportunity to replace the inverter with a different manufacturer, looking at Solaredge's recent change of products that are not like for like and now have a high failure rate.QuoteSo Solaredge had been selling non complaint inverters to the UK and the NationalGrid tolerated it at first until now. These working units that seem fine after so many years, one of them 7 years, now have to be replaced with the screenless pile of piss that won't work straight out of the box and requires phone, app, internet and hosting a whole load of stuff just to make it work and depends on it's foil caps not to fail if they haven't fixed that already.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 05:07:32 am
content: that thing is just a rumor with the caps from reddit, I never bothered investigatingI think it was something along the lines of leakage when they get biased high, so that means you need to desolder and test in a high voltage tester like mr carlson