Do I buy a new Rigol 1054Z or an old Tek 2455? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 03:59:12 pm
content: Dilemma. My 50MHz Philips scope is dying. The power supply has exploded twice in the last decade (thanks X2 capacitor and Philips electrolytic!), one of the attenuator switches is shot and periodically smoke makes an appearance from around one of the switches. I can't find a source for that but I suspect it's the BJT controlling the illumination slowly letting go and that's the most convenient hole for it to come out of. It smells really bad too, like burning glue. I can't really be bothered to spend another week with my head in it scratching so I'm going to let it go.I occasionally dabble with 2m amateur radio so the bandwidth of a 2455 would be useful but not the end of the world as I'm getting by quite happily with a homebrew RF power meter and HP 5315A at the moment.So, do I buy a Rigol DS1054Z and crack it for 100MHz bandwidth (which is fine for 72MHz before doubling) or buy an untested Tek 2455 (250MHz) off ebay and direct my energy into repairing that? One is likely to be considerably cheaper than the other but more risky.Digital and storage ability of the 1054Z is interesting but again most of the time I can get away with a logic probe and / or scope with some triggering frigs (I built a pattern trigger a number of years ago that makes this less painful).Or something else?I'm going to buy a Rigol spectrum analyzer when one makes an appearance or I get some stock returned from an investment in the future but for now...

author: Amazing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:19:40 pm
content: I'd say get the Rigol. If you've never used a digital scope before you probably don't realize just how much more useful than an analog scope they actually are.I'm not much of an RF guy but analog scopes aren't super useful for RF. The spec-an you plan on getting should totally take care of your RF analysis needs.Lastly, do you really want put a lot of effort into fixing a complicated old scope, when you don't currently have a functioning scope to debug it with?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:27:28 pm
content: I've got a 20MHz LG shitbox scope which is used to fix the Philips oneYeah looking at the DS1054Z now. It's got serial/I2C decoder options which are nice. Wonder if you can obtain them for free

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:30:11 pm
content: I didn't try it and don't know if it is any good or not, but for what you're are doing maybe Siglent SDS1202X-E would make sense.. 2CH+1EXT, 200MHz.. It is very inexpensive..Maybe see if you could try one to see how you feel about it.. I have Rigol DS1074Z and it works fine, 4 ch is more important for me than 200MHz... You can't go wrong with Rigol, but If I were you would try Siglent too before deciding.. There is also GW Instek GDS-1102B (2ch) in that price range, but that one has no digital decodes.. For analog stuff good though...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:27:28 pmYes you can... All of it.. That is why it's popular..If you have a specific question about Rigol, ask...Regards,Sinisa

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:38:47 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 29, 2017, 04:30:11 pmIn addition to the alternatives you list the MicSig TO1000 series is also a nice choice (70MHz or 100MHz with 2 or 4 channels). I like the compact form factor, battery power and touch screen.AFAIK the Rigol 1054Z would be the lesser choice due to slow user interface operation and errors in the interpolation.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pm
content: The only reason I'm considering the Rigol is that it's crackableSome questions:1. Can use this for voltage logging over a long period of time i.e. sample at say 1 minute a div or even slower onto a USB stick? I'd like to use it to watch PLLs lock etc.2. What's the frequency counting like? I'm not expecting miracles here i.e. no 8 digit resolution requirements but a ball park figure without having to wait for my HP 5315A to warm up would be nice. Also can I log that over time?3. Assume I can use it as a reasonably accurate 4 channel common reference voltmeter as well if I want to?4. Does the FFT function stink or not? I've seen some of the older Tek digital scopes and the FFT stinks. First and 3rd harmonic powers would be nice but not essential!

author: Amazing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 04:51:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pmCheck Dave's FFT comparison video:I can't remember the results, but the 1054Z is included in the comparison.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:08:26 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pm1. Slowest is 50 sec/div in roll mode.. Expect a 2-3% accuracy. USB stick, and remote on a computer data saving..2. 6 Digit, hardware (it says so) .. it is reasonably useful for quick checks..3. see number one.. Not a very accurate one..8 bit scopes are not very accurate. I have Picoscope that is 12Bit and has better than 1% accuracy.. I use that for more accurate measurements..4. FFT stinks. It is very slow and controls are confusing... It does work, and in a pinch will do. If you really need FFT, GW Instek and Siglent I mentioned are much better choice.But if you really need spectrum, even crappiest spectrum analyser will be leaps and bounds better than FFT even on a 4000€ scope... And you said you're planing to get one..Regards,Sinisa

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:09:35 pm
content: You might not have to buy an untested 2445 on fleabay; sometimes you can try-before-you-buy. I have a working 2445B that I ought to sell; the A5 and X capacitors have all been replaced. PM me if you might be interested. (Also available: recapped, working 465, 475)My preference is for a Tek 485 (which can trigger on a 1GHz signal!) plus a Digilent Analogue Discovery (especially if you can get the educational discount)The latter is a 2 channel 14-bit 100MS/s (>10MHz) scope => spectrum analyser where you can see harmonics 50dB down, plus a two channel AWG => network analyser, plus a 16 channel 100Mb/s pattern generator and logic analyser. You can try it by downloading the GUI and playing with simulated signals.Bear in mind that:with digitising scopes, bandwidth is only one part of the spec. Where low-level analogue is concerned, the effective number of bits is at least as important.Ibelievethe Rigol ds1054z will only post-process what's on the screen, not what's captured in memory. That's a significant limitation for protocol decoding and spectrum analysispersonally I think a scope is usually the wrong tool for RF (other than baseband). Linearity and dynamic range are critical, and that can be a problem for low-end digitising scopes.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:25:56 pm
content: Thanks for the info and the offer. I'm heading towards the DS1054Z at the moment and grabbing an SA later by the looks. I'm just running through some DS1054Z things on YouTube. The FFT is shit so I'm not expecting miracles here.I've had a few Teks over the years (453, 475) which drove me insane and to Philips (I've owned mine since 1996 and it's been on at least 4 hours a day during that time) so I'd like to stay away from the older Tek units. I know them pretty well and I don't cherish repairing them any more after having to replace the HV multiplier in the 475. I got rid of it after that. The 24xx series are somewhat less nasty in that respect I understand. I'm starting to remember the hell I went through so I'm looking at new only now when I think about it. Thanks for the offer however!I'd like a standalone instrument.You are right with the post-processing of the FFT. It looks a bit like how LTspice works but with less resolution.I do a lot of stuff in the 1Hz-4MHz-ish digital space as well so it has utility there unlike the analogue scopes.So plan looks like:1. Buy the DS1054Z2. Sell a pile of crap I have (I should be a TEA thread member)3. Buy a DSA705 down the line when I NEED it.I am looking at the Siglent and GW instruments as well.I need to sort out my power supply and DMM situation too. Looks like joining this forum might be expensiveEdit: a piece of me wants to build a spectrum analyser so something with slow scan X-Y mode would be useful in the scope side of things.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 29, 2017, 04:38:47 pmYes Nctnico, Mcsig is also an option, seems like a really interesting thing...I don't find Rigol speed that bothersome (it is slower than some other scopes I agree), but I guess it has to do how fast people work and what type of work you do... I guess that was discussed to death before....

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 05:39:37 pm
content: Not sure I want touch screen myself. I like some knobs to twiddle. I still haven't forgiven my wife for touching my Sony FD Trinitron about 20 years ago

author: Tom45
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 06:28:08 pm
content: The 2 channel Siglent 1202X-E is 200 MHz and comes with serial decoding. I recently got the similar Siglent 1202X and much prefer it to my Rigol 1074Z. The Rigol does have 4 channels though.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 06:40:06 pm
content: ^^^^The new Siglent SDS1202X-E 200 MHz, 2 channel scope with all the serial decoding options and such is priced quite close to the DS1054Z. And it's 200 MHz!I still haven't heard that Siglent has issued revised firmware and they don't have a rep for being quick about fixing things but when they do fix the bugs, the scope will become even more popular.OTOH, the bugs may not be in an area of usage that matters to you. That was certainly the case with the DS1054Z while they spent a couple of years fixing things. The problems simply didn't matter - to me...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 07:13:09 pm
content: I'm surprised you don't have a cheap Sigrok-compatible USB logic analyzer. They are really cheap, only a few bucks on ebay. maybe you should pick one up so your decision can be informed by what is available there. Really can't beat their price.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 08:28:24 pm
content: Still doing research...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 09:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 08:28:24 pmTake your time. My most recent scope purchase took over 6 months of pondering.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 09:25:23 pm
content: Yeah it's definitely going to take a few days.This will probably be interrupted by a moment on ebay of "wooh that's sexy" followed by two weeks of fixing it

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 02:25:41 am
content: Get a good WORKING 60 to 100mhz analogue scope from a reputable seller you can TBYB and pick up yourself,and be back in business asapYou can always stuff about later on researching and deciding which way to go with the latest DSOsnail scopeswhen the wallet gives you the ok

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 03:56:17 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 29, 2017, 05:09:35 pmThis may or may not be true for protocol decoding, but it isno longer truefor FFT (spectrum analysis). In addition to the option of downloading the recorded waveform, you can make the displayed FFT choose its source with the buttonTrace(what's on screen) orMemory. This option was added in a patch a few years ago. This Memory FFT is what you'd expect in terms of fidelity, but it's rather slower than the Trace option.

author: IkariShinji
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 06:58:18 am
content: Siglent SDS1202X-E is 1GSa/S, the same as DS1054Z. Their 2GSa/S version is ~$800. I would take the 200MHz bandwidth claim a grain of salt.I did hear about the new Siglent being a little faster, no first hand experience though.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:05:47 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 29, 2017, 06:40:06 pmThe new firmware was released a couple of weeks back with 23 fixes in the changelog:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-'official'-siglent-sds1202x-e-thread/msg1259289/#msg1259289

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:07:26 am
content: Quote from: IkariShinji on July 30, 2017, 06:58:18 amNo user control latency, none.It's a nippy little scope.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 11:51:59 am
content: Siglent SDS1202X-E is looking like the winner so far.I am a little suspicious of the 200MHz claim. Has anyone done any rise time measurements with these?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 11:56:07 am
content: Quote from: Amazing on July 29, 2017, 04:51:46 pmAnd since that video there's been a new firmware which makes the FFT a lot better.It's still not the greatest, but that video is completely obsolete for the DS1054Z.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 12:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pmNo, but you can connect to to a PC with an Ethernet cable then use TELNET to control it, eg. download readings. There plenty of little apps available for this.Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pmIt's hardware. I don't remember the resolution but you can query it over Ethernet for logging.Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 04:43:26 pmIt's only about 5% accurate(and that's perfectly normal for scopes - they're not multimeters).

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 12:27:07 pm
content: My philosophy is: to buy a new dso or an old (full) analog oscilloscope (like Tek 465B, 2235, HP1740B, Hameg HM605), for sure not an old 2455 full of processor and digital control circuits....Then, go for the new Rigol 1054Z.There is a threat about repair of a Tek 2232....A FULL WEEK of work to repair it...That's the proof I am right...If you buy an old analog oscilloscope, buy an oscilloscope that is easy to repair, not a very sophisticated one...If you want cursors, measuring facilities, mathematical fonctions, and so on, go for new dso, don't loose your time and money.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 01:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 03:59:12 pmA new DSO definitely a safer "bet".On the old Tek 2455, assuming your own personal energy and time is considered free and expendable, and even you're so fluent and good at repairing this specific Tek model 2455........ the real question is .... "WHAT IF" its the un-obtainium chip inside that is broken once you used just for 1 week ?A new DSO is much-much safer bet, cause it has at least one year of "warranty" (read: peace of mind & better sleep), and then patiently lurking for a good high freq analog scope deal in the future as you've settled with the DSO for the mean time.Also need to remind you, most of the cases, you need another working scope in order to fix your broken scope.My 2 1/4 watt resistors worth of advice.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 01:54:02 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 29, 2017, 03:59:12 pmBuy the Rigol. It has its limitations but bang for the buck it's a great deal which I don't think you will find elsewhereBut Tektronix make some fine gear for sure. The best analog scopes were probably made by Tek. If you need an analog scope then buy the Tek as long as it's in good working order

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 01:57:31 pm
content: Fecking power supply has just gone phut as well.It's one of those weeksEdit: well that was easy. 20 year old filter cap has just vented! Will order a new one. Back to scopes!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 02:39:25 pm
content: Quote from: IkariShinji on July 30, 2017, 06:58:18 amThe Siglent samples/second per channel is exactly the same as the DS1054Z - exactly! And it's 2.5 times the maximum frequency, kind of an industry standard.DS1054Z - 4 channels * 100 MHz * 2.5 = 1 GSa/sSDS1202X-E - 2 channels * 200 MHz * 2.5 = 1 GSa/sThere are some reviews in this forum and several on YouTube re: the SDS1202X-ESomewhere I saw a video that shows the bandwidth of the SDS1202X-E running out to 300 MHz or so before it drops 3 dB. I think it is one of these reviews...

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 02:56:41 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 30, 2017, 02:39:25 pmA sample rate of only 2.5 times the bandwidth (which is the -3 dB point, not the maximum frequency) is very aggressive in my opinion. Only a steep brick-wall input filter would make that work, and I believe these scopes have a response that is even more shallow than the traditional Guassian response. Industry standard for Gaussian response is sampling at 4-10x the bandwidth. Seethis application notefrom one of the industry leaders for more information and examples.Quote from: rstofer on July 30, 2017, 02:39:25 pmGreat! Even more opportunity for aliasing.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 03:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 30, 2017, 02:56:41 pmWrong! A sample rate of only 2.5 times the bandwidth (which is the -3 dB point, not the maximum frequency) is very aggressive ineverybody'sopinion.The way the world works is that you're allowed to get a better ratio by paying more than $400. :-)nb. These scopes will do better in single channel mode. eg. the DS1054Z has 1GHz sample rate in single channel mode with 100MHz bandwidth. That's 10x.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 03:12:07 pm
content: Quote from: snoopy on July 30, 2017, 01:54:02 pmThat used to be reasonable advice if you have a small budget when it was introduced but nowadays there is more on the market in the same price range so the choice is more difficult and the best choice depends entirely on the requirements.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 03:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 30, 2017, 02:56:41 pmIt is much less of a problem then people think. First of all there is are the probes which load & dampen the high frequency parts of a signal.Secondly signals have harmonics which spread wider as the frequency increases so the chance they actually cause aliasing artifacts is low.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:08:19 pm
content: SDS1202X-E is winning so far.I have gone through 20 years of notebooks and found only two times I needed 4 channels. 90% of the time I'm probably good with one.Bandwidth looks relatively honest.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:14:45 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 30, 2017, 04:08:19 pmDo you still do exactly what you did 20 years ago?You mentioned you wanted serial decoders. That makes me wonder...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 30, 2017, 04:08:19 pmTwo comments on this:1) If you are working on digital circuits then 4 channels is very handy (think about decoding an SPI bus)2) 4 channels is just handy to have. I use more than 2 channels at least once per project. I don't want to go back to a 2 channel scope.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:56:44 pm
content: Just as a point, yes I mostly do what I did 20 years ago. I only seem to go near I2C and RS232 stuff or single logic bits externally triggered. You will still find me with a logic probe in hand! If I'm going to look at SPI bus, I'll be looking at 8 bit+ bus widths way before that so a logic analyser will do the job better there i.e. will scale past 4 inputs. I *could* buy an MSO but costs are escalating then.This is entirely for hobby use rather than professional (unless anyone is hiring and paying enough) so compromises have to be met as the financial director (wife) is trading this off against some new curtains and I f**king hate hanging curtains

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 05:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 30, 2017, 04:56:44 pmWhen I came back to electronics and embedded computing after 20 years in the wilderness, I was simultaneously horrified and delighted at how little had changed. The entry point isstillan 8-bitter without an RTOS programmed in C and using host-based debuggers. The only difference is the size (chip vs several PCBs), cost (!10 vs £1000), and JTAG replacing ICE.The major new interesting technologies are nanopower/energy-harvesting, much faster ADCs/DACs, and multicore processors with guaranteed specified loop times and good intercore/interchip comms mechanisms (XMOS xCORE).As for the 2 vs 4 channels arguments, consider that one of the 4 channels is in many ways the ext trig input on a 2 channel scope.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 07:29:54 pm
content: I haven't sussed the SDS1202X-E trigger yet. It has a dedicated external trigger like an analogue scope and unlike the DS1054Z but I can't work out if it's a dumb trigger (edge/threshold detect) or more intelligent or if you have to use one of the channels for more intelligence.So the basic dilemma is:1. DS1054Z: better reseller, stock and support in UK by the looks. More mature software. 4 channels2. SDS1202X: faster better user interface. 200MHz bandwidth. Don't have to keygen it.Now I'm sitting here with my 2m TX which I built with a diode probe, DMM and counter. Harmonics? Who knows! I'm not going to be able to find out even at 200MHz bandwidth what is going on as far as harmonics are considered with the FFT function. BUT I can measure fundamental power into 50 ohms with a terminator at the scope with the 200MHz bandwidth which is better than a shitty diode probe/load and cheaper than an SA to measure the power for now.So SDS1202X + cheap logic analyzer off banggood.Put the new curtains up. Wait until things have died down and buy an SAAnyone care to test/challenge this idea? It's always best to test and test again

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:39:35 pm
content: As to SPI, which is the primary reason I bought a 4 channel scope, it is also quite reasonable to trigger a 2 channel scope from CS' and watch the clock and one side of the conversation. It isn't ideal but it works.There is a huge difference between looking at SPI on a scope and on a LA. When you really want to know how the clock aligns with the data, you can't get there with a LA unless it samples at an awesome rate - like about the same as a DSO. And you certainly can't say much about signal fidelity. LAs are nice, I have a couple, but I really want to see the correct location of the edges and how clean the waveform is.I don't need to decode "War and Peace" on the screen or in memory. If one packet moves, they will all move. Anything at a higher level can be debugged with printf().If the SDS1202X-E had been available when I bought my DS1054Z, I'm not sure how it would have turned out. I already had a Tek 485 (2 channel 350 MHz) so I probably would have still gone for 4 channels but since the Siglent is $20 cheaper and has a better and more responsive UI, I might have watched the 2 videos (above) and gone for the Siglent. Heck, I still might get one! But I'll wait for the firmware upgrades.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 30, 2017, 08:39:35 pmIs the one I linked not enough ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:49:48 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 30, 2017, 07:29:54 pmThe 2nd order harmonics of 140MHz to 150MHz will be in the 300MHz ballpark and I guess you might want to see the 3rd (450MHz) as well. I don't know what kind of dynamic range such measurements would require but getting 50dB dynamic FFT range from an 8 bit scope is pushing it. All in all I don't think a 200MHz scope is going to cut it. I would feel more comortable using a spectrum analyser for these kind of measurements so I guess your wife has more leverage to get some home improvements done

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:51:26 pm
content: Yeah hence better to get a calibrated SA and look at the power in the frequency domain instead. That's next step

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 30, 2017, 08:51:26 pmThen don't overlook these either.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 09:17:14 pm
content: I'd probably look at second hand HP/Agilent for that to be honest. Some bargains in that space if you know where to look.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 01:40:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 30, 2017, 03:12:07 pmWhat are the options for a 4 channel scope in this price range ? ie street price of $399 ?cheers

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 08:05:15 am
content: GW Instek GDS1054B or MicSig TO1074

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 09:18:13 am
content: Ok outcome of this is as follows for me. Firstly thanks for everyone's help. Much appreciated. I have a massive spreadsheet going of everyone's data. This is brilliantly useful this threadSecondly I'm going to shelve the idea for a couple of months and watch some more opinions of the SDS1202X-E appear as my weighting literally sticks them level pegging with their compromises. I'm also interested to see what Rigol come up with next as an entry level model as they have some competition now. I don't expect that to appear soon. I've also started looking at some slightly more expensive options.Quick fixes in the mean time:1. Looking at my Philips scope this morning (yay to Monday off), I have snipped the illumination supply out. No more smoke. I can live with this for a month or two until it either forces the decision with more smoke signals and/or more information becomes available.2. My power supply is shot, completely. Current limit no longer works. Replacing the filter cap has not fixed it properly. So I just grabbed a working Thandar TS3022S off ebay. It's got more wumph then the old unit. This has shot 100 quid of my budget in the short term.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 02:56:02 pm
content: The issue of the firmware update was resolved a couple of weeks ago:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-firmware-update/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-'official'-siglent-sds1202x-e-thread/Now to wait a couple of weeks to get the reviews...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 03:05:47 pm
content: That's one thing I'm waiting for

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 01:54:14 pm
content: Ok the Rigol won. 4 channels was the winning feature and I will buy an SA in January.Thanks all.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:09:26 pm
content: Have fun!!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:10:41 pm
content: I'll no doubt post some questions when I receive it. Annoyingly I missed the shipping deadline today for telonic so will have to wait until Friday

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 06:25:40 pm
content: Telonic got the business:Now I have to wait until Friday. I hate waiting

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 10:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 02, 2017, 06:25:40 pmWhen it arrives you don't have to unlock it right away. All features are enabled as trial versions for 37 hours (or something like that).Make sure it all works before doing things to it...(although the hacksarequite easy to remove)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 10:34:57 pm
content: Thanks for the tip. I actually have no plan to actually crack it until I need one of the features. On the understanding that I already use a 50MHz analogue scope (the smoke machine as the wife calls it) I'll see how far I get with the defaults firstAlready looking at spectrum analysers.Actually I tell a lie, I've found out what TEA is, volt nuts are and time nuts are so I'm looking at a GPSDO and counter solution and a slightly better DMM than my Fluke 8600A. I have put off joining the forum for about 3 years for this reason

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 10:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 02, 2017, 10:34:57 pmLOLOLOL

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 10:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 02, 2017, 10:34:57 pmThe bandwidth will be 50MHz but all optional features are enabled as trial versions.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 10:53:50 pm
content: 50MHz should be fine in the short term.For ref, it's called the smoke machine because...My bench is the corner of the living room. We're sitting there watching Captain America and the scope is off as is the rest of the kit on the bench. It doesn't get left on. There's this unpleasant smell and she says "did you leave the oven on" so I go and check it. Nope absolutely fine. Nothing there so we sit down. Then we open the window. Smell gets worse. So I start sniffing around the fire place thinking something has died up the chimney. Nope nothing there either. Eventually I get to the bench and nearly fall on my arse as smoke starts pouring out the back of the scope. Dive into the cupboard and flip the main breaker. Smoke still keeps coming. All windows open, scope gets dragged off the bench and taken out the front. Now it's full of rancid smoke in the living room. One annoyed wife and the WORST smell you have ever smelled. Scope spends the night on the door step (thank goodness it's summer!). Crack it open the day after, when she is out of course, and there's an X2 capacitor on the inlet that is permanently connected even when the scope is off. This is now a pile of burned rubble. The power switch only switches the converter on and off. It's just sitting there with the main isolation transformer and mains side stuff powered up all the time!So the thing gets a good clean out from all the gunk, a new Chinese no brand X2 capacitor and it's working fine. However every time I've been using it I see her glancing at it nervously wondering when it's going to explode again.So she's watching TV and I'm at the bench and there's a burning smell. I glance at the scope and there's a small wisp of smoke coming out of the power switch. Turn it off, wait until the next day until she's gone out and crack it open again. Quick sniff around points to the PT that controls the graticule illumination. I snip the power to it and no smoke. Ok fair enough, so I do what I wanted to do and spliced the wire again.She comes home and I turn the graticule illumination on and smoke predictably appears."I think I need a new scope - look! The curtains will have to wait"She reluctantly agreesOld one was a PM3217. Think I've had it since about 1998 so has done OK!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 09:00:07 am
content: My new baby arrivedQuite a noisy beast! Might have to void the warranty and do something about that.Came with a free shitty multimeter which I may or may not bother to open.Now to try and shirk of everything unrelated to playing with itEdit: Free DMM came without a battery. Stuffed one in. Has fuses and a MOV in it although it'd probably kill me before they went off. Might keep it for low voltage monitoring as it lights up like a christmas tree:Anyway screw that - back to playing with the scope!Edit 2: Couldn't resist. I have blown the meter up already. 90v DC @ 1A on the 200 ohm range and it no worky no more.