Forum Topic Suggestion: Dedicated "Vintage Computing" section - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 02:05:23 am
content: Hi Dave,I know it's been discussed here before (I can't seem to find the thread), but I think it's probably time to re-visit the idea of creating a "Vintage Computing" section.Old computer technology is a huge discussion point here and to lump it in with "General chat" means a lot of topics are getting lost in the noise.Thoughts? I've added a poll for shits and giggles.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 02:11:05 am
content: Yea the thing about forums like this is the problem of over-boarding (a major section of a forum is called a "board") vs. keeping the main forum view layout simple and direct.There becomes so many areas of interest that it seems like you need to create a board for all of them. It's a tough call between over-boarding and just letting people search for the areas on interest. But because people are lazy they don't use search ...I don't have a dog in this fight - let's see what he says.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 02:16:29 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 25, 2017, 02:11:05 amSure and I'm concious of this myself. We can't just go creating boards to suit everyone, but since the topic of old computer hardware is discussed in such volume here (not to mention Dave has done several videos specifically about old computers), it probably wouldn't be a bad idea. "Thermal Imaging" for example has it's own board but with relatively few topics."Jobs" and "Work Wanted" could also probably be merged into one.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 02:41:43 am
content: Of course I agree. We need something to compete with VOGONS.I think there would be a good enough volume of retro computing enthusiasts that would like to pop in from time to time. I would definitely hang around there.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 04:36:04 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 25, 2017, 02:05:23 amWhy? Are you getting bored of General Chat?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 04:41:41 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on July 25, 2017, 02:41:43 amYou agree? Are you getting bored of General Chat as well?

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 05:00:30 am
content: Not entirely sure what your point is.I'm not getting bored of the general chat, I just think it would be neat to have a retro computing section on the forum. I will of course still be on the general chat, but considering that there are a decent amount of people interested in legacy computing, a new section to the forum would not be unreasonable. As Halcyon said, even Dave has had a few retro teardowns on his channel (Gonna go watch the one he did on the Sharp 68k machine he did now that I think of it)

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 05:27:19 am
content: Quote from: Shock on July 25, 2017, 04:36:04 amA bit, yeah. But it has absolutely nothing to do with that. I'd love to see all the vintage computing stuff all in one place as it forms a significant number of posts on the forum.Just about every page of posts in General Chat has something to do with vintage/legacy computing:Page 1 - Help needed with OS/2Page 2 - upgrading cpu in old pcPage 3 - Does anyone else have memories of tracking the MIR space station?Page 4 - Etymology of the word "computer", How to tell if old PC is a Homebrew?, is a pocket sized Altair 8800 a brilliant idea?Page 5 - Making a retro dos/windows gaming pc need a little helpPage 6 - Covox Speech Thing clone (for lovers of vintage computer gear)Page 7 - IBM System/360 Front Panel, Xerox Alto RestorationPage 8 - Worst 5 Computer KeyboardsPage 10 - Remember the ZIP Drive ?Page 11 - Take on Me by the Floppotron!Page 12 - Any other older folks learn to program with this?Page 13 - Installing macOS, New Pentium Pro retro build, i386DX-16I think you get the picture. I could go on but I'll be here all night.

author: skarecrow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 01:18:38 am
content: You got my vote! I love vintage gear. Would be nice to see a section dedicated to it. I used to have a nice collection of vintage computers, but most of the stuff got lost in the shuffle over the years. I'll never let anything happen to my working 1973 Zenith terminal though. :-)Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:05:59 am
content: I was actually just talking about the popularity of vintage computers/games in the workbench pictures thread. I think it would be a good idea to have a forum like that here, most forums about the topic don't really get too in depth and it would be nice to discuss it on a bare metal level with seriously knowledgeable people.edit: I would also suggest that the forum be dedicated to both old computers and old console/arcade game systems since there's huge cross-pollination in those hobbies and servicing both is similar

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 07:02:02 am
content: Quote from: dos on July 26, 2017, 05:05:59 amWhich is why I suggested the title "computing" because it encompasses all that, plus embedded systems etc...

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 08:34:05 am
content: I'd like to see a 'Vintage' section, but why just computers? Why not generally vintage technology?Electronics and computers would turn out to be the greater portion of discussion I think, even if the title didn't specify just those fields.Also, what is 'vintage'? Anything prior to say, 1980? 1970? 1960? Anything just out of warranty? (Ha ha.)

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 08:50:25 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on July 26, 2017, 08:34:05 amIn the hobby of "vintage" games and computers it's anything before the mid 90's, as that technology accelerated so quickly.edit: I think a catachall vintage forum would be a bit too broad. there is a big difference between say a 16-bit digital computer and a tube amp. Like Halcyon said a vintage "computing" section would be great, it would encompass things like old calculators and stuff like that too which also have large communities (let me tell you about my HP collection...)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 09:29:24 am
content: For sure we need one. Now people are asking how can they should connect a 74HC138 on projects area, you tell them that they should use stuff from this 21 century, and they tell you that they want to build an 8 bit computer for whatever reason.I think, you can pretty much call anything vintage, what does not run Doom.There are definitions like that. It is a smartphone if it can run Angry Birds, you are drunk, if you need to rest your head against something when you go to the restroom...

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 04:46:40 pm
content: The unofficial VOGONS definition is basically anything early Socket 775 and before. The definition is definitely up for debate, but that's normally where I draw the line. You can of course make period accurate systems, which is more to what the whole thing is about.I suggest we, however, restrict the section to computing, because when you expand it to old technology, you have room for basically everything that the General Chat talks about, just if the general chat was here 20 years ago.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 04:16:25 am
content: The "vintage" line changes year after year. To me "vintage computing" refers to anything pre-Windows XP in relation to software and original Pentium-based machines or older. The vast majority of my gear at home is from the 1980's however.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 04:35:53 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 25, 2017, 02:05:23 amI don't recall this being bought up before?I did a search for "vintage computer" and I got 5 pages of results. There are no doubt more, but finding them and moving them might be difficult.The "Products" board is looking a bit thin... Hmm...

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 04:41:05 am
content: I think "Vintage Electronics" would be more appropriate. This would cover far more topics than a forum specifically dedicated to computers.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 04:48:58 am
content: Ok, done, with some topics moved to seed it. Will see how it goes.

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:23:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 27, 2017, 04:48:58 amThe TEA thread seems an odd choice to seed the vintage computing section

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:53:59 am
content: I think Vintage Computing is manageable, but please don't change it to Vintage Electronics. That would cause mass confusion due to all the vintage test equipment repair, restoration and just plain drooling that over that happens here.Ed

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:56:19 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on July 27, 2017, 05:23:02 amFixed

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:58:31 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on July 27, 2017, 05:23:02 amThink of it as penance for gluttony.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 06:00:27 am
content: Vintage ?It's hardly been out of the box.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 06:01:49 am
content: Approx 20 years plus is vintage (in case anyone is confused).

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 06:18:13 am
content: My "Tandy 1000 ex/hx PLUS Expansion to 8-Bit ISA Riser card project" topic is prolly better suited to the Vintage Computing section too.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 06:52:46 am
content: Quote from: Shock on July 27, 2017, 06:01:49 amAhh, I didn't realize that you are owning the official definition.I have seen various different definitons applied, e.g. by the organizers of vintage computing festivals. I like the criteria most European vintage computer organizations seem to have gravitated towards: "Older than XX years andinteresting, which typically excludes Windows PCs", or something alsong those lines.Of course these criteria are not absolute, and Windows machines can be quite interesting, e.g. if they have a unique form factor. And you can probably find some machines/devices which are quite a bit younger than 20 years, and are nevertheless of interest to (some) vintage computing enthusiasts -- either if they were groundbreaking innovations, or quirky dead ends of the technology roadmap.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 08:06:09 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 27, 2017, 07:26:46 amDefine "vintage computers" as pre-1930, you mean? Hmm, let me think... There might be one tiny little weakness in that suggestion, but I can't put my finger on it...

author: Rbastler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 08:12:36 am
content: Woudnt have to do much with electronics then, if anythingId say starting with 1990 and back should be considered vintage. I certanly would consider my L40SX to be vintage...Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 08:17:49 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 27, 2017, 07:26:46 amWell as an active member of a real life Commodore & Amiga user group, I'd suggest most of my fellow "retro" computer enthusiasts would strongly disagree with your categorisation of our beloved 70's-90's (very early) computers as not "vintage".

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 10:01:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 27, 2017, 04:48:58 amCheers Dave!

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 10:14:12 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 27, 2017, 09:34:03 amWell if you want to get technical, the computers most of us collect and play with from the 70's-90's (early) should be classed as "Vintage Personal Computers" as that 17 year period between 1975 and 1992 was really the dawn of Personal computing.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:05:06 am
content: If they do add this, it would be a god idea to add a trusted "moderator-at-large" for a week or so, that would volunteer to look around on the forum boards and move existing vintage computer threads to the new board so they'll be in one place. After they get done they can be removed from moderator status.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:11:23 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 27, 2017, 11:05:06 amProbably not a bad idea. Smells like a job for gnif ;-)

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:23:32 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 27, 2017, 11:05:06 amAnd you are volunteering? Thanks mate!!

author: djos
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:29:50 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 27, 2017, 10:41:45 amNow vintage mainframe computers, there's a fascinating subject.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 11:47:54 am
content: Quote from: djos on July 27, 2017, 11:29:50 amIndeed.Is this board going to tolerate discussion about getting emulator software working so you can run old mainframe operating systems and software? DEC PDP 10 anyone?What about IBM 370 or VAX VMS? What about FPGA emulations?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:03:50 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 27, 2017, 11:47:54 amHell yes! Bring it on wilfred!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 12:34:03 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 27, 2017, 11:23:32 amSure. I put my money where my mouth is.Thanks mate!!

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 03:38:25 pm
content: Let me take you on a time warp to the 80s, vintage was referred even back then as 20 plus years old.Sorry if you didn't speak english, hadn't heard of the internet, weren't talking to people all over the world, weren't born or were told otherwise from someone who had no idea.Two decades is a long time there has been 6 versions of Windows for consumers to use in the last 20 years. Back in the 80s people expected most things to last well over 10 years before replacing, but 20 years old, man that was vintage.Case closed.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 03:50:55 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on July 27, 2017, 03:38:25 pmAttitude problem?Time to go to bed?

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 05:52:35 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 27, 2017, 03:50:55 pmWhat are you trying to do, provoke me? I'm not even talking to you dude LOL.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 03:46:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 27, 2017, 04:48:58 amGlad to see the new forum!Not sure what you looked for to find the seeds, but some appear to be there by mistake:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/see-y'all!/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/nice-examples-of-breakout-systems-for-sbcs-that-aren't-prone-to-creating-rfi/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/overclocking-an-uncooled-attiny-to-44-24mhz/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/programmer-for-tms2516/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/vintage-computing/uv-eprom-over-programming'/