Charity shop selling unearthed and dangerous travel adaptors - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 12:16:20 pm
content: I was looking in the charity shops today and found these travel adapters that accept an earth connection but doesn't have an earth pin just a plastic one and I thought these are not allowed to be sold in fact I remembered a documentary on these many years ago on some BBC investigation that looked at all sorts of stuff like dodgy Iphone chargers and travel adapters that do not conform to standards.The shop workers did the right thing and took them off shelf but told me that they came from head office and they wouldn't have sent them if they were unsafe.They asked me if I was an electrician despite explaining the purpose of an earth pin to ground to earth if it becomes live in respect to class 1 appliances but they seemed clueless and trust everything they are told by the "head office"Accepts earthed UK plug and European too.No earth just a plastic earth pinThis is the first time I have seen a charity shop sell something that like this and sent by their "head office".I see "surge protector" on there but even if there is one what is that going to do missing an earth connection?Just noticed "Internat ional" missed a space in there on the package.Searching from the numbers I see it has it's on patents:PAT200930196087.4https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100311261A1/enQuoteNothing about earth in there.https://www.snapdeal.com/product/internatinal-adaptor-allinone-ag-pat2009301960874/659433643515IdenticalAmazon:https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B01DJ140LQThis has USB ports on it and surprisingly I see no negative feedback in terms of safety.Changed to .co.uk but "page not found" so not fold herehttps://www.ebay.com/itm/144361577020Seems they sell in USA but got imported over.Just found a Youtube video:Universal Travel Power AC plug adapter AU/UK/US/EUPanda Will 179,617 views 19 Jul 2010Up:147 Down: 126On second thoughts I should have brought one to tear it apart to check for that surge protector before reporting it.What do you think?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 12:33:52 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on August 23, 2022, 12:16:20 pmThis phrase gave me an amusing image of how that conversation likely went with a charity shop retail worker...

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 04:56:17 pm
content: This is what happens when the education system fails to produce people capable of logical thinking and with a decent basic knowledge of how the world and the things in it work.We're currently rewiring and partly refurbing a community hub/sports centre/library, and last week one of the young lads in the electrical team was doing some testing, and on one particular circuit, he couldn't find any continuity for the earth. The charge hand told him to leave it for now, get the rest of the testing done first, then go back to it.Before he got the chance to go back to it, I decided to remove the spur in question, as the equipment it was nominally powering a.) didn't work, and b.) was redundant.What I found was, that though in the spur there was an earth connection, the cable did not have the earth connected into the socket on the ring it was being supplied from... and I don't mean it had popped out of the terminal, I mean it had been cut off flush with the outer insulation.And yes, the PSU the spur was supplying was a Class I, metal bodied jobby (for powering a disabled assistance alarm).

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 05:14:57 pm
content: Amazon is full of 2 pin to 3 pin travel adaptors.EDIT: Irrc, the main concern with that type is the possibility of reaching around and accidentally touching live retracted pins.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 05:20:44 pm
content: You may be shocked to learn that there are countries with no earth connection in mains wall sockets.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 09:56:06 pm
content: Found a teardown of this same exact one from DiodesGoneWild.Credits: DiodeGoneWild"Surge protector" lie:Sounds to me very dangerous in that:1. Exposed pins at the back are indeed live and present an electric shock hazard if touched behind.2. If other pins are accidentally raised by pressing the buttons with it plugged in and they touch or lay against something conductive now isn't that a fire risk?3. You can accidentally insert the British, Italian and European plug the wrong way where it becomes live on the pin that stick out and is an electric shock hazard.4.No surge protection. The LED just has two resistors in series with it. So that isan absolute lieon the packaging and socket.5. The shutters don't lock with an earth shutter so a child can poke things in there but I'd imagine they are more likely to get electric shocks elsewhere first like touching the live pins behind it.Universal Travel Shock-dapter (Dangerous Adapter)DiodeGoneWild200K subscribers19 Feb 2017122,737 views UP: 1.6K DOWN 71This is a clever universal travel adaptor with 3 different ejecting plugs. It is sold on Ebay for just $1. The problem is that you can eject more plugs at the same time. When plugged in, the exposed pins of the other plugs are live. It also defeats ground / earth. Ground is not being connected at all, but you can plug into it appliances that need to be grounded. You can also plugHighlighted transcripts from video (Auto generated by Youtube and corrected some)1:48 as you can see there is no ground there is just European path without ground u.s. or Australian plug without any ground and British plug is just a plastic ground plane because the British socket actually requires the pain to open the shutters of those two but it was just made of plastic it doesn't connect anything2:21 like this one but that's absolutely nothing to prevent you from cutting appliances which has to be grounded like this Europe Iran you can easily plug it in is Italian one with the ground pin in the center you can plug it in and it's connected to nothing and the British one2:45 you can easily plug it in and the ground is always being defeated you can also very easily plug it in the wrong way and this pin is becoming live3:09 with this one at 12 and you can even plug the ground pin of the British plug into live and the entire metal cabinet of the appliance is now live and this is3:31 stop here so let's stay in Europe just plug it in and what if you accidentally engage those British pains now yes their eyes so you just got an electric shock3:34 plug it in and what if you accidentally engage those British pains now yes their eyes so you just got an electric shock in Europe and if you rock enough to be still alive you can fly to America and plug it in and again you exist engage those pains and again they arise so you'll have another electric shock and4:11 of those pins are live now the European ones are live and the American ones are are live4:17 and it claims to have safety shutters but they don't work at all you can stick up to anything into it even the ground pin or the British plug5:48 there is an LED and this is 2 two resistors in series both 74 kilo ohm each in series and that's it6:29 there is the shutter which is completely useless6:54 there is of course no ground connection it's just empty plastic hole6:58 it says surge protector but I already didn't find any need and this is how the

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2022, 05:03:12 am
content: I have found out that these have been recalled many times before and they sell under many different names:Insten:https://www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls/product-safety-report-insten-all-in-one-international-travel-adaptor-2007-0346Sold on EbayQuoteChargeWorx:https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/product-recalls/2018/03/charge-worx-international-travel-adaptor/Sold in Game storesRecalled: 08 March 2018Universal Travel Adaptor:https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/product-recalls/2015/12/universal-travel-adaptor/Recalled: 25 December 2015I have reported to the Charity's head office and got a sensible reply after clarifying a few things.I was told they were brought in good faith from a supplier based on conversations. They have withdrew them elsewhere so obviously they were selling these in other stores and now they are going to get it tested by a qualified electrician before approaching them to question what tests the supplier had done on it.Looks like they trusted their supplier too much and now they have been betrayed into buying this crap.I have found one on Amazon for £15.99https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apark-Universal-Adapter-Worldwide-Converter/dp/B08NSTJV6RQuoteCE and RoHS safety certification.That would be interesting when I report it.I see on this listing no mention of the fake "surge protector".

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 01:53:53 am
content: Of course they don't need fake surge protection. The poorly isolated death trap USB ports are bad enough.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 02:37:35 am
content: Theonly thing they can add to the next version isBLUETOOTH.I’m assuming it’s alreadyDIGITAL, because it’s either ON or OFF. 😱

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 03:35:06 am
content: These garbage adapters are everywhere.Last time I needed one the only place I found an earthed one was inside departures at Heathrow - and my, are Boots proud of everything they sell in there..

author: helio0centra@gmail.com
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 02:33:28 am
content: Big Clive calls them death-dapters because you can fit the ground pin in the live or neutral socket and make the whole metal body of your devices live at mains potential.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 02:47:59 pm
content: You know they are fake as the 'CE' mark is itself not compliant.The C and E should make two *intersecting circles* if extended.What you see on these is the 'China Export' mark - guaranteed as 100% tat. Unfortunately only the 'proper' CE version is protected by law, so having a 'fake lookalike' CE mark is actually legal.Stupid EU lawmakers......Bill

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 03:56:16 pm
content: QuoteBut not being CE marked isn't legal, is it? So technically it doesn't matter - without the correct mark they would be illegal to sell.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 04:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: Bill W on October 05, 2022, 02:47:59 pmThis is an urban legend which originated in 2008 and was debunked (with limited success) in the same year.Products bearing a CE mark with the wrong typography might well be legit, and just be labelled carelessly. And products which do not meet the harmonized technical standards arenotlegit when sold in Europe, whether they bear a correctly or incorrectly spaced CE mark, or no mark at all.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#%22China_Export%22

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 04:57:02 pm
content: The lack of an earth pin doesn't seem like that big of a deal, most of the stuff one would be travelling with (phone and shaver chargers, laptop, etc) won't have a ground pin anyway. Here there are still many pre-1960s houses that still have at least some 2 prong receptacles, adapters that allow 3 prong plugs to be inserted have always been common. It's not ideal but you don't hear about people dropping dead. The fake surge protection and cheap construction seems like a bigger issue.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 05:06:08 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 05, 2022, 04:57:02 pmBeing that it does not prevent inserting a plug requiring a ground, it's a big issue.QuoteYes, we're well aware no effort is made to prevent selling unsafe equipment to those not qualified to judge its safety in the US.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 05:09:37 pm
content: You don't hear about people dropping dead all the time here. Grounding is a good idea that adds additional safety in the case of a fault condition but properly working equipment will work fine without a ground. I just don't see it as a big issue, a travel adapter is not even something most people are going to use much. I don't really understand the obsession with safety much of the world including much of my own country has these days.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 05:24:58 pm
content: Okay I have seen some travel adapters with a plastic pin being classed as a class 2 appliance on the unit and packaging and not to plug anything in that may require earth.But when there are live parts around it like this particular one where it sticks out and someone could touch that couldn't be right.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 06:45:58 pm
content: I have to a agree that the title of this thread is misleading. Dangerous implies to me that I have to take special care or precautions to avoid injury or death, and that even with these precautions I am at risk. 30KV lines with 20 A current capacity are dangerous. This adapter is less safe than one with a proper ground, but it requires a combination of additional failures to cause harm. When the term dangerous is applied to anything which might under some set of circumstances cause harm it loses its meaning and value. Much like the vastly overused California warning that this product may contain cancer causing materials. Which is applied to virtually anything including untreated pine lumber.Members of this forum would be at almost zero risk from this device. They might use it, but wouldn't use it with a worn and failing piece of equipment while standing in a grounded bathtub.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 06:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 05, 2022, 06:45:58 pmPut your fingers round the back of this thing when it's plugged in and tell me how it's not dangerous.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 06:52:11 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on October 05, 2022, 04:01:22 pmHence my placing 'China export' in inverted commas.Urban myth or not, you see misshapen 'CE lookalike' marks on all sorts of items that cannot conform to any EN product standards as they are components, like a bare PCB.However a carelessly labelled product (that meets the underlying technical standards) is still non-conformant, as it does not bear a CE mark, merely a distorted pretty picture of one.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 07:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 05, 2022, 06:48:29 pm* As above yes you do have to take special care (not just with the earthing issue as in the title.)Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 05, 2022, 06:45:58 pmThanks for pointing this out.As I see now from interpretation that could be open from the title: dangerous because it is unearthed.If that is what you mean, the maybe I should have titled it "dangerous"AND"unearthed" travel adaptors.Sorry about that.I'll change the title.Titled changed to: "Charity shop selling unearthed and dangerous travel adaptors".I do see some danger but not to the extent of the live exposed parts.Just noticed from the URL that I did change it when discovered that the video.Quote

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 07:32:41 pm
content: They are certainly "dodgy" and I wouldn't buy one, but if I happened to have one around it wouldn't bother me to use it.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 09:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 05, 2022, 05:09:37 pmSays someone in a 110V country! Try those lax approaches on 240V and you get quite the shock, literally.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 09:43:14 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2022, 09:24:38 pmI have spent time in a 240V country and did some electrical tinkering while I was there. I don't think using something that is maybe not the most well designed device is necessarily a "lax approach", I know better than to plug it in with live prongs sticking out, I wouldn't feel unsafe using it. 120V can be lethal too.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 09:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 05, 2022, 06:45:58 pmI am pretty sure that all the safety ratings and stuff are aimed at the billions of people that aren't members of this forum.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 10:34:38 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 05, 2022, 09:43:14 pmDid you try floating ground connection on devices with safety grounds? That was what you were talking about in the quote (that you mysteriously detached) and is the very "lax" approach that seems to be routine in 110V countries. 240V stray voltages are worrying enough, hence we take the protective earthing seriously.Quote from: Someone on October 05, 2022, 09:24:38 pmPlenty of equipment is right up against the maximum permissible ground return current, let that 3.5mA rip and its very unpleasant. Any faulty equipment however... exposure to 110V is roughly 10x safer than 240V depending on which reference you go for. Even a 30mA RCD isn't enough to ensure safety with 240V installs as they generally don't disconnect within 30ms, hence the push for faster and lower current RCDs (and needing more of them to distribute the intentional ground return currents).

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 10:37:15 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 05, 2022, 09:57:07 pmAs an example some (most?) people on this forum could distinguish between:dont disconnect/defeat the earthingvsdont use a power lead unless it is unrolledvsnever connect a multi-way adaptor to another multi-way adaptorbut they are presented as "equal" rules to the masses

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 10:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 05, 2022, 06:48:29 pmOK. If you can squeeze your fingers into the space between the wall and the back of this device while it is still at least partially inserted in the socket you can get a shock. And if you are using both hands so that one finger from each hand is touching that shock has real potential for hurting you. But in my mind that is somewhat similar to pointing out that if you stick you finger into the pulley and belt system of a running car you can get hurt. Perhaps motor cars should have their hoods sealed and locked so that only certified mechanics can reach the dangerous bits.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2022, 11:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on October 05, 2022, 10:41:22 pmI know for a fact I can if you insert it in a typical UK socket.QuoteThe difference being that most people have an appreciation that there are nasty things in there, someone walking up to one of these plugged into the wall unawares, or perhaps, a child (who would not be easily getting access to the moving bits of a running car), would not be expecting live parts you can just touch.