What does everyone think about the recent price increase? (27%+ $7.2k->$9.2k) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: OnTheMF
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2014, 11:15:24 pm
content: I'm shopping around for some EDA software and was a little surprised to learn Altium is now $9.2K! I'm curious to know what current Altium users think? Was this a long overdue increase or are they trying to get blood from a stone here?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2014, 11:21:17 pm
content: This is typical Altium.I remember working at Altium when the price was something like $12K, and they slashed it by like 75% to $3K or something like that.And then the founder proudly stood there in front of everyone and said "We can never go back to high priced software, we have burnt our bridges."Of course, 12 months later it had doubled or something

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 03:43:33 am
content: Quote from: OnTheMF on July 07, 2014, 11:15:24 pmYes, Altium increased $2K on the 1st July 2014.If you are in the business of contracting your services out to various companies, then Altium might be your best choice as it has become a defacto standard for many companies designs.If not, then look carefully at what your actual needs are. You may well be able to save some considerable dollars by using Proteus or DipTrace which are both excellent schematic to pcb design packages.I've used all three. Proteus is very intuitive (has an easy to learn interface) & their pin limited versions are great value. DipTrace is less expensive than Proteus & does not offer so many smarts. But is also very good value & is very usable.Altium is the most complicated to use but offers the most powerful features. Look carefully at your design needs before forking out $9K plus for it.As I've said before, most of us who use Altium don't particularly like it, nor do we like Altium the company. But is has sort of become the defacto standard for many companies who demand designs be supplied in the Altium format.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 06:40:19 am
content: If you're looking at Altium, then you should also look at Cadence, PADS or Expedition before you consider dropping right down to the hobby tools.Personally I use Orcad PCB Designer, which is a cut down version of Allegro (Cadence), and can be had for about £2k.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:00:30 am
content: What I personally think if any company rises the prices of their products with more then 5% (and this is a whopping 27%):- they are going bankrupt and need money fast (or recently lost a lot of money on a failed product)- they have a lunatic in their marketing department / management- they have a monopoly and like to shake their customers down like the maffiaany or all of the above.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:16:41 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 08, 2014, 08:00:30 amOr the much touted "low cost" version is coming out and they are repositioning the price brackets?

author: koko79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:20:39 am
content: Ouch! Has anyone heard a justification from them? If you are going to do that you need a story to go with it....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:25:50 am
content: Quote from: koko79 on July 08, 2014, 08:20:39 amNew financials came out today:http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20140708/pdf/42qps9r034d7zr.pdfThey are going gangbusters, and hoarding case. (as always has been the case, Altium have zero debt)So there is no reason to do it from a financial perspective, apart from milking the cash cow even harder.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:43:25 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 08, 2014, 08:00:30 amAltium have increased their prices as revenues are stagnant, just like Microsoft (the last 3 years sales revenues has gone backwards) & Apple (the last 2 years sales revenues have gone backwards).When the technology (software in this case) matures, customers see little reason to upgrade. An example of this is Microsoft Word 2007 & Word 2013. Whilst the later version does a few more things, most customers can do everything they want with the earlier version. The same thing goes for Windows 7 & Windows 8.Altium is not much different. I own Altium 6.9 (2006/2007 version) & recently completed a contract design using Altium 14. The main thing I noticed is that a couple of screen bugs that p*ssed me off in version 6.9 have been fixed & the screen drivers have been improved somewhat. There are a few new features (which I didn't use or used a bit just because they are there).Would I pay $3600 (the price quoted about 2 years ago) to upgrade my copy? Nope, because I don't think it is good value (the money comes out of my personal pocket).The other reason Altium is having a hard time is because of the effects of the GFC & the dumb move to China several years back. There was no way USA military contractors were going to use the later versions of software that were developed in China for fear of backdoor leakage over the net & live net access to their computers via the Altium Component Vault.Now that Nick Martin has been booted from the company we wait in baited breath for Altium to once again concentrate on their bread & butter Schematic & PCB design software (& stop wasting resources on FPGA design software & nano boards).So far as I can tell, there has been a little more emphasis on the schematic & pcb side of things, but it has now come at a cost of some $2K more.As I said before, not many Altium users actually like Altium the Company.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:53:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 08, 2014, 08:25:50 amIt was common knowledge some 4 to 5 months ago that the price was going up by $2K on July 1st 2014. Altium carefully leaked this out to many of their customers.Many took the opportunity to upgrade before the price rise ............ but it will not be such a gravy train in another 6 months time.They have substantially cut their operating costs & this has improved their bottom line.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:54:50 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on July 08, 2014, 08:43:25 amThat is why they have announced they moving the HQ out of China to the US (for the 2nd time now)I predicted they last in China two years tops, and that was pretty close to spot-on.QuoteThat's basically happened, and they have admitted they are focusing on core PCB/schematic once again. Their real problem might be lack of programming talent.They were already short staffed on the core PCB side of things, and it's public knowledge that most of those key people have left since the China move.No idea how many programmers they have working on core stuff now, but it's not the key people they had for the last decade.They will never drop FPGA from the product because that would cause them to lose face, so they will only put a token effort into it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 08:57:20 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on July 08, 2014, 08:53:42 amThat tends to happen when all your old staff on high salaries have left.Plus no more blowing money on hardware, so yeah all this improves the bottom line, for now.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 09:29:31 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on July 08, 2014, 08:43:25 amIf you're contracting then aren't you spreading the costs amongst your clients and claiming back VAT/MOMS/Sales taxes/whatever-its-called-in-your-neck-of-the-woods and classifying the licence as a cost in your bookkeeping? Or was it a one off-gig?As for price increases, the golden rule is, if in doubt raise your prices. Consumers tend to confuse price with value.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 09:34:44 am
content: Quote from: bwat on July 08, 2014, 09:29:31 amSure you can claim your software on tax, but it's not magic, it's still the majority of that money out of your pocket.Many people think that things are free when you claim them on tax, you see the big rush at local computer market at the end of the financial year

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 09:50:10 am
content: I was thinking more along the lines of: assuming DerekG is a business then he wouldn't/shouldn't be taking anything out of his pocket for items like this. When offset against the money coming in, the costs aren't free but the items are a hell of a lot cheaper than if they came out of your own pocket after sales taxes, business taxes, and income taxes which would apply if he paid himself then bought the licence. I don't have the technical terms for these things in English. My business vocabulary is in another tounge. Also, SWMBO is a tax specialist so I've had my behaviourmodifiedwhich is why this post jumped out at me.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 10:25:36 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on July 08, 2014, 08:43:25 amThat is probably the reason that software firms (like Microsoft and Adobe) are now licensing their software on a time (month/year) basis (for instance Office365) they make the initial price cheaper but you can only use it for a limited time period, and if you continu to use it the total money spent is well over a single product would have cost you.This is my worst nightmare that all software vendors are going to do this time based licensing.

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 10:39:57 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 08, 2014, 10:25:36 amAs a young programmer in the early 90s I was told that "the software business model is a renting model." This was probably gleaned for the decades of experience with mainframes and the like. Once it was hidden in upgrades, now it's more explicit I suppose.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 10:48:43 am
content: For an EE hobbieist that wants to keep his sources in an archive and wants to be able also in a ten years from now to rebuild the code and/or change and re-order the pcb this would be disastrous if all software companies would go this way. I can foresee a lot of cracks/hacks resulting in even lower income for these companies.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 11:26:24 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 08, 2014, 10:48:43 amIt is scary when you read through many of the agreements for things like Adobe Cloud. You agree to let them use your files that you store there. Uh. No. I don't think so.Maybe with the extra money, Altium can finally learn how to measure length properly...

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 12:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: bwat on July 08, 2014, 09:29:31 amI contract from time to time for a company that always has the latest version of Altium. They supply the mini-cube computer with Altium already loaded on it. The mini-cube has 2 x raid SSD hard drives so it can be packed in your check-in (or carry on) luggage.I'm quite happy to complete the contract in Altium ver 6.9, then import the file into ver 14 & resave it ............... but that's not the way they work.They used to do all their design in-house, but since the GFC they don't have enough new design work to make that economical.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 12:56:29 pm
content: This happens when prices are set by people completely detached from the real value of money. "I mean sure, 9.2K oz dollars doesnt seem to be too much, right? My second swimming pool in the backyard was 5 times this much"This is about the yearly salary of an EE in east Europe, after taxes. It is also the price of a solidworks + autocad.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 01:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on July 08, 2014, 12:56:29 pmIf you are employing someone to use Altium 5 days a week, even in east Europe they cost a lot more than their take home pay, probably 3 times more and the $9k2 is for a perpetual license not 12 months. That kind of cost isn't a barrier, in more wealthy parts of the world it becomes trivial.Altium need to set the price to be competitive, high and they loose sales to the competition and loose upgrade purchases, low and they get more sales but less money per sale. There is probably a wide range of price over which their bottom line won't change much. When it was particularly low in the past I'm pretty sure they were trying to increase their number of users to make money from maintenance subscriptions, only Altium really knows how that worked out.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2014, 05:31:27 pm
content: But the employers cannot really afford it after a while. Instead of making a new job for someone, they start making double shifts, increase the workload of existing employees or start using cheaper software. I don't know which one is worse.In the meantime, the core package, what 90% of the users use didnt change much. Well at least, up to 13, because when I asked for 14, my employer showed me the "middle finger", stating that it is just too expensive.

author: QuantumPhys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 07:01:21 am
content: Anyone have any idea what is Altium's market share in the higher price market? I have seen data indicating that Cadence/OrCad/Allegro, Zuken, and Mentor are much better off, but for some reason Altium seems to be the most widely accepted in PCB fabs?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 07:06:05 am
content: Quote from: QuantumPhys on July 09, 2014, 07:01:21 amEh?

author: QuantumPhys
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 08:03:41 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on July 09, 2014, 07:06:05 amFor some reasons, PCB fabs in China often only accept Altium and Gerber, and almost none accept Cadence/Zuken/Pads/Eagle/KiCAD. Not that it really matters, but to me it seems to point out that Altium is much more popular in at least China.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 08:58:12 am
content: Quote from: QuantumPhys on July 09, 2014, 07:01:21 amhttp://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20140228/pdf/42n245lfpcxq8f.pdfSee belowQuoteThe big three earn more in revenue than Altium, but in terms of actual seats and in what segments, that's harder to know.Altium have approx 50,000 seats IIRC based on an investor presentation, so you culd work out the others seats if you know the average seat price, as you already know the market cap and percentages.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 08:59:14 am
content: Quote from: QuantumPhys on July 09, 2014, 08:03:41 amThat is because Altium is the standard everywhere in China. Too bad no one pays for it.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 09:07:02 am
content: That's a new one one me - though I only ever submit data for manufacturing in Gerber format, which every PCB manufacturer can accept. I'm not sure I (or my customers) would be too happy about releasing the original CAD source file anyway.In fact I'm quite surprised to hear of any PCB vendor directly accepting the native format of the CAD software used to design the board. How do they know which items from which layers are to appear on the board, and which are unwanted / documentation only? Does Altium have very clearly defined separation between items which always form part of the finished board, and items which don't?(In Cadence I have to define the set of artwork plots which form the layers of the board, along the lines of: to generate 'top copper layer 1', draw the pads from layer 1, shapes from layer 1, text from layer 1, vias from layer 1, and various other items which I want to appear on all layers by way of documentation, such as a copyright notice and alignment targets).If I were choosing a CAD tool right now, I wouldn't even give the issue of output format a moment's thought. Every PCB tool can generate Gerber, and every PCB manufacturer can use it. They may also share other formats in common, but for me at least, the ability to send the raw CAD data to a Chinese board manufacturer is so far down the 'nice to have' list that it doesn't even register. I'm not sure it even qualifies as 'nice'.

author: OnTheMF
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 09:24:25 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on July 08, 2014, 06:40:19 amYup, I've been looking at all of the major vendors. OrCad is near the top of my short list after I learned of the Altium price hike. The OrCad Pro 1-year license seems pretty enticing. I was going to be paying that in subscription costs with Altium anyway. One thing I really like about OrCad is the IDX support, which will make for some sweet photo realistic renderings in SolidWorks. Clients love that shit. The big downside is that I hear the learning curve is steep. Jury is still out though, the North American reseller will have to return my e-mails before anything happens...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2014, 10:27:51 am
content: Orcad PCB Designer - a.k.a. Allegro - does indeed have a learning curve like a brick wall. I'd never describe it as intuitive.It is, however, very capable, and now I've been using it for a while, it has indeed become second nature. Moreover, since it's the same software all the way up to the most capable versions of Allegro (just with different options enabled), I know it's not something I'm going to outgrow, and the effort invested in learning it will never be wasted.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 12:47:13 am
content: For what its worth, I just put my foot down and refused to pay the asking price. And told them that they needed to be realistic. A day later our reseller came back with a "realistic" offer. The discounts where significant. They were going to either get some money or no money.The "List" price is one thing, the actual price you need to pay seems to be something different.

author: Laertes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 05:14:57 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 12, 2014, 12:47:13 amI have had the same experience. We originally bought two seats, one with PCB and one Schematic only for something along the lines of 6-7k € in early 2013 and then got another full seat plus the PCB part for the second license for 6k€ about three weeks ago. So that makes a total average of around 4k€ per seat, which is much more reasonable than 9k(or the 6k€ that 9k australian dollars would be)...And that kind of holds true for most software packages - if they're really expensive, it pays off to talk to their sales reps and bargain a bit.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 06:29:34 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 12, 2014, 12:47:13 amthat type of "bargain" business is very common around here.

author: OnTheMF
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 22, 2014, 01:59:11 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on July 12, 2014, 12:47:13 amYea, they gave me some "discounts," just like every other vendor does. The discounted price was still more expensive than the old price, so I was not very moved. In the end I went with a time based license for OrCad Professional. Cadence gave me some really good discounts on training on top of a strangely low price for a 1-year time based license. It was only marginally more than Altium's yearly subscription price. At least this way if I find I dislike OrCad then I'm not out too much money. The break even point where a perpetual license for OrCad Pro was cheaper was 6.35 years. Pretty economical, especially when I'm not really sold on OrCad either.

author: Poe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 02:49:10 pm
content: Considering what it does and what it is..... The cost is silly. It's like woman's jeans. They will charge what they can get away with when the market is not sufficiently competitive. Hopefully Kicad gets better. Even if you prefer Altium, hopefully that will put more pressure on them to charge a reasonable amount.

author: etzz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 03:29:29 am
content: "I went with a time based license for OrCad Professional"Post back how Orcad is working for you (or maybe there are some Orcad users here that can report). I tried out the demo a few weeks ago. It seemed ok, but some of the "tests" I ran did not turn out so well. For example, in PCB editor, I never could figure out how to get a dimension down (although I did not read a bit of documentation, just experimenting). It strikes me as a no frills, get things done sort of tool. This is what I would prefer. I have been using Altium since 2006, and am getting tired of all the fluff and buggy releases. I can make it work, though.I did watch an Orcad video that showcased a .pdf datasheet to library symbol converter function. It seemed awesome, no more typing in and editing pin names from datasheets. It opened my eyes to what can be done if a CAD vendor focuses on the core problem at hand (schematic and pcb).I think moving to Orcad would be too painful and take too long, but maybe not.The baseline autorouter that comes with the pro package is limited to 6 copper layers, but you can do a lot with that (+ its basically CCT spectra which is very good). Routing with 6 layer groups within a larger stackup could get most of the jobs I have done.Let us know how it works for you, or how it compares to Altium!Thanks, Eric

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 05:36:15 am
content: Quote from: etzz on July 27, 2014, 03:29:29 amI'm in the same boat (Altium ver 6.9). I have used Altium 14 on several contracting jobs along with Proteus (which I actually prefer).My last 2 pcbs were actually completed in DipTrace as its fairly intuitive & easy to run.It all depends on your requirements. If your boards are not particularly complex then DipTrace will do the job at a good price.If your boards are more complex then Proteus is easy to get up & running & is still good value.If your boards are pretty complex then Altium will do the job for you at a fairly high price.The difference is that I like the guys at DipTrace & at Labcenter. I neither like the Altium software & even more dislike Altium the Company.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2014, 06:16:27 am
content: Quote from: etzz on July 27, 2014, 03:29:29 amI use it daily. I'd completely agree that it's not very intuitive.To add a dimension, choose Manufacture > Dimension Environment, which puts the tool into a 'dimension adding' mode.Then right click and select Linear Dimension (or any other type) from the pop-up menu. Click two points and it'll automatically add a dimension.

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 04:50:13 am
content: Unfortunately, pirating Altium seems to be painfully easy. Not that I've done it myself, but have seen other hobbyists locally with the full version for free. Sad that Altium doesn't have different levels like DipTrace, maybe I would actually consider using it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 06:39:17 am
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on August 14, 2014, 04:50:13 amThey will be coming out with a lower cost version soon-ish.Different package though, not Altium Designer.

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 10:09:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 14, 2014, 06:39:17 amWas that the secret call after the Amp Hour?

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 10:10:02 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 14, 2014, 06:39:17 amAny time frame for this new release Dave?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 03:56:33 pm
content: Dave Jones ?@eevblogYou heard it here first - the @altium FREE version IS happening... #ItAintDeadDave Jones ?@eevblog 13h@alberto0714 @altium It will be released this year. For Altium, that's accurate :->

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 09:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 14, 2014, 06:39:17 amSo, if this "lower-cost version" isn't Altium Designer with, perhaps, layer or pin or size limits, then how does that benefit Altium? I mean, if the libraries are different, or if the file formats are different, or if it just works different, that seems to be at cross purposes. Wouldn't Altium want to provide a low-cost tool that can be upgraded to the full tool?

author: Gunb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 07:26:25 pm
content: More expensive, more bugs and many updates - too many updates.Sorry, currently I'm not very happy with Altium.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 09:23:42 pm
content: Quote from: Gunb on August 18, 2014, 07:26:25 pmI'm with you on all of these comments.DipTrace has come a long way with its new release this year & Proteus is an excellent package too.The question is, if you need all of the smarts that Altium offers, are there any other competitive alternatives?

author: etzz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 02:51:50 am
content: As far as competition to Altium, I think Cadence ORCAD and PCB Designer are an option. The Pro suite is reasonable, and if you want to rent, its not much more than Altium yearly maintenance. As far as I can tell, it is missing blind and buried vias (paid option). The autorouter is limited to 6 layers, but you can do a lot with that by routing in sections. Also, the Autorouter/system may not have full blown high speed support, but it does include the basics. This means you might have to complete a few high speed tasks manually, but they could still be done. You can get the rundown on the Cadence website. This still compares favorably to Altium, as I am sure the autorouter will be much better (actually work).Best,EricPS: An option for me has been to use Altium Ver. 10. I am still on V10, as I also got fed up with the bugs and unneeded feature churn. In a few years, i may come back on board, but Altium will need to start focusing on the schematic/PCB tool, and work on the bugs.

author: Gunb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 09:58:30 pm
content: Today Altium 14 crashed 2x and generated an error report to send it to Altium.Independend from that sometimes Altium hangs for a few seconds when startingan operation.Same on my colleague's machine. One can notice that it has become worse over theyears.No written handbook, obsolete video tutorials and very expensive training courses.Well, makes me angry to pay so much money for it. Altium has to become much better.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 12:01:44 am
content: Quote from: etzz on August 19, 2014, 02:51:50 amI'm in a similar boat & have decided to use DipTrace for many of my new designs. I own Altium 6.9 & have contracted using Altium 13 & 14. I can't say I'm very impressed which is a shame as I started with Protel EasyTrax & AutoTrax in the early 1990's after moving over from smARTworks.Proteus is very nice too

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 12:09:34 am
content: Quote from: Gunb on August 20, 2014, 09:58:30 pmRemember, Altium is ONLY tested on Intel based processors. No testing is done on AMD & Altium do not recommend any processor other than Intel.Most crashes relate to the video card or from running out or RAM. Don't open too many complex boards at once & update your video drivers is always good advice. If the crashes keep occurring, change over your video card to another brand/model.Also, do not use Windows Vista.Remember as a minimum:Motherboard RAM = 3GBVideo RAM = 1GBProcessor = IntelI can't remember the last time I suffered a crash when using Altium.

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 05:09:30 am
content: I have an FX-8350 AMD processor, 8GB of RAM and a GT630 graphics card with 4gb of GDDR and it works smoothly. But I uninstalled it because I like DipTrace better

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 06:01:03 am
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on August 21, 2014, 05:09:30 amJoin the club. I still have some legacy designs in Altium & still do some design work in it, but essentially I too have left it behind for all but the most complex designs.You could have left it on your machine. The PCAD export filter in DipTrace imports fine into Altium with the exception that some of the component overlay text moves around.

author: Gunb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 07:44:21 am
content: Quote from: DerekG on August 21, 2014, 12:09:34 amLOL!My machine:Intel core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz8GB RAMGeforce GTX750 Ti, 2GBSamsung SSDWin7 - 64BitDon't start discussions about machine ressources, we've got several Altium licences on different powerful machines - they all have the same problems. And we're using Altium for years. It becomes worse from release to release. The update rate last month has revealed Altium's quality problems.Cheap bugs, just that simple.And: any software running only on Intel machines with such a high price is a bad software.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 10:55:09 am
content: Quote from: Gunb on August 21, 2014, 07:44:21 amWell, then it's time to see the light like I did. Don't keep bashing your head against the wallIf your designs are not super complex, take a look at the latest release of DipTrace. It's great value & easy to learn, yet quite powerful.If your designs are more complex, give a Proteus a try. A great UI & also pretty quick to learn.Both will save you considerable $$ & there is no doubt you will live longer.You can export your existing designs from AD so don't feel you're locked in.There are plenty of alternatives out there & as I've said many times before, I do not like Altium the software & I more intensely dislike Altium the Company.Take a deep breath & make a life changing decision that will reduce your future stress levels.PS: With the money you save, take a well earned holiday .................... every year until you decide it's time to retire

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 01:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: DerekG on August 21, 2014, 10:55:09 amIf people are already using Altium and they want a more reliable package minus some bells and whistles then they should consider going back to using Protel 99SE. I have used 99SE on basic windows XP machines up to my current machine which is a DELL i3770 running Windows 7 Professional and it always runs quick and reliably. For a 10 year old cad package it is still superior to a lot of current offerings today. Protel had their sh.t together when they released 99SE back in the hay dayI've been using Altium for the last month or so and gotten used to it. Altium is essentially a superset of 99SE but with the same commands enhanced or located in different menus. They have gone backwards on some features such as library management which is brain dead in Altium. For example if I want to edit a part on my schematic I can't just click on that part and it is automatically selected in the library dialog ready to be edited like it was in 99SE. I have to manually go search for it and then right click on it to edit it. Now that is brain deadBut you learn to get around these obscure features.One of the benefits of Altium over simpler packages is its multi channel design although there are some quirks with it. For example all of the channel rooms have to be oriented in the same direction otherwise when you clone a room it screws the up the rooms that are pointing in the wrong directioncheers

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 01:46:02 pm
content: I just checked out the guided tour of Diptrace and it looks like they have improved it a lot since Dave reviewed it a few years ago.http://diptrace.com/diptrace-software/guided-tour/For the price it is pretty good value.Isn't it funny how these cad vendors copy ideas from each other

author: Scribe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 06:44:33 pm
content: Seeing as we purchased it expecting Altium to constantly improve Vault as a new way forward, only to find that when they finally fixed it they decided to charge a fortune for even the most basic version... not very happy at all.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 07:03:02 pm
content: What is all this crashing stuff ? I use altium almost daily and very few if any crashes.My machine is nothing special. Quad core i5-760, 4 gig ram, win7-32 bit and gt680 nvidia card.But ! And here is the big but ! The machine is clean ... Nothing else gets installed.I had a problem with the .15 altium update due to a botched microsoft update of net. 4.5. Not altiums fault ! Reinstalling .net 4.5 solved tha altium problem.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 07:38:39 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 23, 2014, 07:03:02 pmIt doesn't much crash for me either but I know it does and has history of crashing for others.Quote from: free_electron on August 23, 2014, 07:03:02 pmNot likely to have much to do with it. Altium is a huge program with plenty of bugs (current version has several bugs in the variant system). Some of those bugs corrupt data in memory which ends up as a crash when the corrupt data fails bounds checks or causes an exception. The crash is remote from the bug which actually caused it so the crashes appear random and impossible to reliably reproduce. Crashing or not is more likely to do with what is on your board and how you manipulate it. If you don't use variants you won't see any of the current variant bugs, similarly if you don't much use arcs or differential routing or whatever you won't see crash causing bugs associated with those features.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2014, 02:46:05 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 23, 2014, 07:03:02 pmI get the rare crash in advsch.dll but no big deal. I can still save my work and restart it again.But I can get it to hang by resaving my pcb library back to 99SE format. It works ok for the schematic library but not for the pcb library so now I have had to create two separate pcb libraries when I wanted it to be common to both packages.cheers