More Chinese fakery? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 03:38:01 pm
content: 50g tub of Mechanic brand solder paste sealed with hologram label.Weighs 39g gross.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 03:41:58 pm
content: I blame the scaleWith out a fresh calibration certificate it is considered as toy.But I have one idea for you, visit a local super market and use their scale for the dry-nuts.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:28:03 pm
content: Dave,http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=185please.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:35:44 pm
content: Contact the vendor (Dealextreme?, I did buy the same item from them but I didn't check it. I will the next time).

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 04:28:03 pmI think theIgnore Listunder your Profile settings can already do that -- I haven't tried it myself but I understand others have had success with it!

author: hacklordsniper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:43:43 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 04:28:03 pmSometimes Kiriakos can write a joke which is not easy to understand sometimes, but he is also a valuable contributor to forum so why ignore him?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:47:53 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 04:28:03 pmBeg for pardon for my ignorance if any, what that solder paste has to do with this ??

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 04:54:32 pm
content: It's not related with the solder paste but with the "rather troller" answer received.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:21:33 pm
content: yes the chinese are master forgers of any kind. dear kiriakos that would be quite an error for the scales to make and you have automatically assumed it is faultym, why ? What is it you love so much about the Chinese ? or is it their similarity to the greeks ? (fake products / fake economy). My personal experience of the chinese is that they will skin you at every opportunity and honesty is not part of their industries volcablery.I have to admit that as tolerant a person as i am if i were not a moderator I'd be seriously considering using the ignore function !

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 07, 2011, 03:41:58 pmFixed it for you. Needs to have 3 smiley faces otherwise people think you are being serious.On topic: I have 4 sealed containers of the same paste that I bought from DealExtreme. They weigh 50, 50, 49 and 49g on my uncalibrated kitchen scales50g is also the net weight which shouldn't be including the container... In any case, its usually pretty close and the stuff is dirt cheap. 39g is a bit rubbish though. Did you only get one? If you got more than one are the others just as bad?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:26:04 pm
content: oh well your scales are definitly not callibrated, i mean comon they must way 60g at least how dare you accuse the seller of cheating

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:31:10 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2011, 06:26:04 pmOh damn. The scales have a Made in China sticker underneath! Must be a conspiracy!http://www.dealextreme.com/p/high-intensity-soldering-paste-35g-33706Looks like there is some going around that's not 50g. Most of the different Chinese brands of solder paste come from Mechanic's anyway, with a different label slapped on. The lodestar stuff I got once had the mechanics logo on the bottom half carved off...edit: another underweight version sold by DX (20g!)http://www.dealextreme.com/p/high-intensity-soldering-paste-20g-33705atleast they are honest about it

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:32:32 pm
content: Quote from: EdoNork on November 07, 2011, 04:54:32 pmI got it now, thanks. Ahhh.. that shit head again.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2011, 06:21:33 pmMy sympathy to you Simon !

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:37:44 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2011, 06:21:33 pmSimon you are free to think what ever works for you .Personally I am far from accusing one billion of people as scamers.Yes I love the Chinese people and every one on this planet.If you wish to be added on my empty ignore list, send me a PM .This is what the wise people do.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 06:55:32 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 07, 2011, 06:37:44 pmCalling a moderator stupid is not a wise move dude.Especially you depend so much on this forum by riding it's popularity, and use it to stalked every manufacturers and gained free multimeters, I'm sure you've give them tons of bullshit by promising them to write a review which is a crap, and worse nobody going to read it cause you're the king in the ignore list among members here.Really wish there is a way to warn and inform those poor manufacturers that they're wasting their hard earned money by giving away their product to a freebie that will not yield anything rather than bad publication.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 07:29:08 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on November 07, 2011, 06:24:14 pmThis was an extra one the ebay seller sent after I complained the first two were equally underweight.I have had a couple before with identical labelling from a different ebay sellers. Didn't weigh them but one which I have partially used still weighs over 40g gross. I weighed these because they felt light.They all have a number revealed when you peel off the holographic label which is supposed indicate non-fake. The new underweight ones have a little folded leaflet under the lid showing other Mechanic products (with Chinese text) and a link to the Mechanic website.Hard to believe someone would go to so much trouble to produce such a good fake. Perhaps if the labels, hologram and packaging were 'leaking' from legitimate Mechanic production or their suppliers it wouldn't be so much trouble. Hell, the way China is it wouldn't surprise me if the same factory makes product for Mechanic during the day and underweight fakes during the night.In passing I am not stupid enough to own a scale which reads 30% low without knowing about it. As best I can tell with some old calibration weights it reads about 0.15% high.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 07:45:01 pm
content: It's possible underweight ones are rejected, or as you said, someone's doing some dodgy manufacturing on the side.I've never had any issues with the four or five orders I've bought from DX so I consider them reputable enough. How much did you pay for them?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 08:54:19 pm
content: Quote from: hacklordsniper on November 07, 2011, 04:43:43 pmPerhaps because he's a racist fuckwit who is perpetually rude to others in order to stroke his own ego? Could just be that people couldn't give a flying fig about tales of sandals and uncles and POS Japanese motorcycles.Now the idiot has decided he is a capable reviewer and is intent on foisting his half assed assessment complete with "are we there yet" postal updates prior to any biased evaluation based main on country of manufacture.Any moron who continually claims "they are not afraid to die", should probably do us all a favour and do so at their earliest possible opportunity. And yes there would likely be 25 posts about the suicide note and the lament it was regrettfully written with a chinese biro.Yes he does occasionally produce a rational interesting and maybe even insightful post but at a rate of about 15 per 2000, I can see why people would want to select the ignore option. I know I have!It's available in your personal settings.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 09:23:36 pm
content: I can imagine one under-aged to play the cowboy in the forums, and use all of his imagination to become an perfect killing machine of the other people feelings,those are the famous keyboard fighters.But by reading all those nonsense's that comes from the keyboard of one over aged loner guy in his retirement,makes me to wonder if your own kids ( if you have any ) are still talking to you.In every school class, every little kid gets knowledge and training, so to become ready to live in a such full of competitiveness world.The same philosophy stands for the athletes and the business world, at any level .I am glad that I can not come close to your standards.Simple because I am different, and I am proud of it.After of your 200 answered flame posts , this is your lucky day, you got an reply !!

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 09:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on November 07, 2011, 07:45:01 pmIf they weigh and reject them it would be done straight after filling so they could recover the solder or manually top up.Quote from: metalphreak on November 07, 2011, 07:45:01 pmBit less than $5 delivered (but I am not in the states). Never really looked at DX before, probably try them next time.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 09:29:04 pm
content: See the beauty of ignore is I did not have to bother with whatever trite reply was sent.No need to dictate what others should or shouldn't believe, no need to badger moderators about what I think should or should not be posted, no need to waste any time at all.Use Ignore folks, and please don't quote idiots, it makes for a happier day.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 09:51:08 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 09:27:08 pmhttp://www.dealextreme.com/p/mechanics-soldering-paste-50g-7952USD$3.36 inc delivery worldwide

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 10:31:54 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Now I agree that sometimes our friend from the land of the "wine dark sea", shoots from the lip, but I do not think that this is one of those times. It bloody well seems to me like a good natured jest.--Who ever heard of a digital scale being off by 20%, Who would believe such a thing, its preposterous. Someone who works with electronics all day, would bloody well know better. Likewise, the mention of a calibration certificate for a $20 digital gram scale. Now, just how GD dumb would you have to be to think its worth spending $100+, rather than just putting a can of tuna on the stupid thing, just to test it, clearly, preposterous as well. Also, I understand that those little smiley faces are called emoticons, and are supposed to give a hint as to the emotional nature of the posting, whether it is playful or in deadly earnest, no? Now, the original poster to this thread, seems to have picked up on these not so subtle hints, but others? Not so much. In any case our friend was not being hateful, like some of his responders.--That being said. There is no call to insult people's national origin. That is a low blow. There is marked difference between disagreeing with someone and calling them a s**thead.--Now, DJ sometimes refers to shoddy workmanship by saying the product was made by One Hung Low. One Hung Low, if you did not know is the reputed author of a book titled "Chinese Rupture". DJ does not say that all Chinese or Greek people are scammers and ripoff artists. He just gives the individual miscreants a gentle chiding. Do thou the same. Allow people to disagree, without immediately resorting to "fighting words".--Also if I were British or American (which I am), I do not believe I would be accusing other countries of having a "phoney economy". But I do admit for the nonce, that the American economy is looking a bit more phoney than the British one. But is is a difference of degree and not of kind, I think.--One of our forum brothers has stated:"Really wish there is a way to warn and inform those poor manufacturers that they're wasting their hard earned money..."--Can it really be that he thinks there is no way to contact manufacturers. "Duh, If I only knew the name of that there Brymen Technologies Company, maybe then I would be able to figure out how to contact them, duh. Then I would really rain on his parade, hahyuk, hahyuk, goorsh."--Moondoggie (the handsome surfer from the Giget movies) also stated:"Calling a moderator stupid is not a wise move dude."--If you are not a moderator you had better be careful about disagreeing with Moondoggie, lest he use that rapier like wit to unleash some of that terribly clever profanity on you.--I knew if someone said the magic word Uncle Vernon would ring in complete with profanity (just in case you want to show your children the forum), and bad grammar, considering this is his first language. Now he cannot see certain posts, because he has them on ignore. "Nya, nya, you cannot see me because, I have my hands over my face." I my case UV has me set to ignore, not because I insulted him, but because I took him to task for insulting someone on the basis of their nationality. Now whenever someone quotes me he chimes in with more profanity, begging and pleading with everyone to put all of his enemies on ignore, trying to police a plebiscite from the droppings of various posters. In any case we only need to wait for for one more to show up, and we will have the full Trollhouse Tag Team Monty, complete with more disgusting profanity laced gibbering. Stay tuned."I could see that, if not actually disgruntled, he was far from being gruntled." P. G. Wodehouse 1881 1975Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 10:54:54 pm
content: there are good and bad alike in china like everywhere but when you want good it is best to deal with them through the well known brands, as we all know no matter who sells it, it was made in china. Of course if dealing direct you are left wide open to scams and they do exist ! I worked as an interpreter trying to help import stuff and we got no where, between bad quality (if you could call it quality of any kind) to people expecting to sell us containers of goods on their say so and a photo with no sample provided and you had like a day to say yes or know. We were eventually advised to use a local agent, basically someone who YOU pay to tell you who is good and who is bad and deals for you and no doubt gets a hefty cut.I work for a company now as a quality inspector for a company that buys goods from china, much of it has to be reworked ! one of my last rejection was a box of air conditioning filters (receiver driers) that were packed upsided down - guess why ? because they had the wrong valves on the top, so yes i am weary, because "I" have to deal with their shit on a daily basis and this is after going through an agent.After you have dealt with the chinese to the extent i have, then you can come and tell me they are all pure people that would bend over backwards for you at no cost !

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2011, 11:06:58 pm
content: very fascinating religios discussion "sidenotes" here, at least can cure my boring timeonce i have a list of i*nor*, not anymore. i dont see the point i dont see the reason.ie i'd rather reading a troll, than read "this user is in your i*nor* list". quote from other user makes thing worst.people swearing is the same as people swearing. i keep telling myself that.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 12:19:53 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 07, 2011, 10:54:54 pmA customer had a first batch of 1000 boards from a sub-contract assembler in China who sourced PCBs, components and assembled but didn't test. They were OK to work with and I certainly got the impression they were trying to be helpful. The boards came with a fake Fairchild MOSFET fitted which was so far out of spec not one of the boards worked. The expense and delay sending them back for rework meant we settled for them supplying 1000 non-fake MOSFETs and us doing the rework. The MOSFETs looked fake without measuring them, a couple of other chips looked dubious but worked OK.I never did know if it was them trying to screw us knowingly fitting fake components, or knowingly fitting fake components they expected to be in spec, or if they got screwed by their (no doubt) Chinese component suppliers shipping fake out of spec components.Do the Chinese try to screw over each other or is it more reserved for exports?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:30:22 am
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 08, 2011, 12:19:53 amThe Chinese definitely try to screw over each other. For just one example, consider the adulterated baby milk scandal.As I understand it, Chinese culture historically relied on a purchaser physically being present and inspecting goods before parting with money. This balanced the tendency of vendors to sell fake goods. With a shift to distance selling this ability to check goods on the spot broke down and the law hasn't caught up yet.(But remember that in every nation, everywhere, the same tendency applies. Just think of British TV shows like Minder or Only Fools and Horses. The difference in the West is a more mature legal framework for consumer protection.)

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:48:28 am
content: If you can find a copy, read "Poorly Made in China" by Paul Midler.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 02:08:05 am
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 08, 2011, 12:19:53 amI hate these generalisations, like saying all Americans are dim, all Aussies are drunks etc.Are we the western consumers actually the ones trying to screw China, by chasing the impossibly low prices? Sure it's a damn sight more complicated than that but any way you view it greed from all quarters is the major driving force.I'm not suggesting it would be a good idea for a second but the US, Australia and Europe could change the situation in days by simply halting trade. As if that were possible.There is nothing uniquely Chinese about the examples quoted, there are reputable and disreputable traders everywhere. The more you pursue cheap prices the more you'll find the shonks. Penny markets anybody?Until we place a value in quality the rot will continue, but that's not to say paying more is a guarantee of quality, I deal with a few excellent Chinese manufacturers, who really do care about their customers and who hold the same business ethics as others I deal with from Europe, NZ and the USA.Sure China has more than it's share of shonks but then isn't trade with China over represented with those seeking below cost deals?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:23:41 am
content: I have a theory,& it is only a theory,that the "shonky" thing is not a part of Chinese culture from the past,but grew from the time when the only customer was the Chinese Government.If you could put one over on the Government,you felt better about yourself,as it was one of the only freely available means of protest.It has become embedded in the industrial culture,& other customers suffer because of it.That said,most of the mass produced Chinese domestic stuff is OK,(except when they get ripped off by their parts suppliers),it seems to come to the fore more with equipment made in smaller quantities.Other countries have their moments,too!We bought a Wertheim vacuum cleaner made in Germany some years back,& it is a pile of crud!Most German stuff is excellent,but occasionally a "shonky" product slips through--the same goes for Japan, the UK,France,the USA,& certainly,Australia!(If your country is not included,please add it)VK6ZGO

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 06:45:37 am
content: yes every country has it's garbage on the market, for england I can probably give you my very own company (although much of it is not made by us but china and other countries). As a company we always expect the impossible at what we want to pay (I believe) but i think maybe some of our customers are also like that. The problem is that they are willing to turn out garbage at a price for for garbage and companies that are stupid like mine will buy this garbage. the minimum expectation these days is rubbish, we all need to raise our expectations above this.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 07:55:48 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 08, 2011, 03:23:41 amJust as a side note: I don't think Wertheim is a German company at all,Wiki says this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wertheim_vacuum_cleanerJust because it sounds German doesn't mean it's German.If you want a proper vacuum cleaner have a look at Vorwerk, they're made in Germany and they are properly good.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:01:22 am
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 03:38:01 pmso rufus... other than the weight, is there anything else that is fake? like the functionality? because doing the comparison of weight alone...The Fake $21/200g incl shippingThe Real $152/144g excl shippingassuming the net weight of the fake solder paste is somewhere say 20g (minus the bottle 19g). so 4x = 80g. let me buy 8x = 160g and scope out some paste so 144g left... so "the fake" is $42/144g, "the real" is $152/144g. if "the fake" works as it should... oh i choose "the fake"!. and remember, "the real" is excluding shipping cost which is the same (or more) as item cost to my place, and no "China EMS service" option.as per Kiri's comment: i know your (Rufus) measurement is ok since i got cheapo chinese scales too (various range) that work fine OOB without proper calib, but just to make sure, i've bought calibration weigh to see how those scales are far off. my finding, i cannot fault the chinese scales to the 2nd last decimal place. i've completely dismantled (including its weight sensor) one of the lowest and most sensitive range scale (200g max), doing mod on rusted battery tab due to leaking china batteries and re-assembled, still work within spec!edit: err.... is that 39.0KGits showing?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:21:01 am
content: Quote from: david77 on November 08, 2011, 07:55:48 amSo true !!I had an similar story too, an Italian sounded brand who was distributing a package of satellite dish plus receiver.One day one Italian doctor came to my shop, asking for a new dish and receiver for his villa, and I suggested the Italian package.He was happy for few seconds, but the users manual failed at the part of been honest for the true origin.Even so he got it , the bang per buck it was good enough.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 10:21:19 am
content: Is mail-order solder paste from an unknown source such a good idea?Aside from dubious supply volumes and pointless hijacking from the stalls about scale accuracy, who knows what conditions the stuff will encounter during storage and via transit?A product best stored under refrigeration will have encountered all manner of extremes between China and your place.That huge price discrepancy when you purchase locally could just be your paying for a known quantity .

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 11:30:32 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 08, 2011, 10:21:01 amYes you can't decide on the Name. Actually there are a lot of brands which were high-end products decades ago and vanished from the market because the were shut-down due to bankruptcy. Chinese companies bought the name rights and now they put it on chinese low-quality discount products to assume it to be actually the original product....So with a few bucks they bought a good reputation

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 12:35:31 pm
content: this happened to the British Quad, it was bought up by a bunch of people who don't give a toss and buy any company they can get their hands on from electronics to boats

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 12:50:37 pm
content: Quote from: Achilles on November 08, 2011, 11:30:32 amYes, or the related trick of high-street stores buying/licensing a name that used to be well-regarded and slapping it on whatever cheap tat they're pushing on the unsuspecting consumer today. Ferguson is the obvious example in the UK; I think Goodmans and Grundig have suffered a similar fate too.

author: samgab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on November 07, 2011, 04:28:03 pmhaha, totally!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 01:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: samgab on November 08, 2011, 01:22:14 pmwho are you kid? lurker?

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:25:41 pm
content: Can't we all just get along?!Anyway, I'm honestly not surprised. It would really depend on the price though compared to decent or even good solder. If the quality was somewhat comparable, it would be hard to pass up a deal where even though you're getting a bit less than advertised, the price is still stupidly low.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:38:23 pm
content: The label recommends 5-10 degrees Celsius for storage. The bottles are sealed so it doesn't dry out. A few weeks at room temperature while its in transit should be fine. As they are only 50g I usually consume the entire amount within a short period anyway. It's much cheaper and convenient than paying $50+ for a 250g jar shipped from a specialist, which goes off even when stored in the fridge after 1-2 months (once opened).It depends on what you need it for. It's great for hobbyists or small volume stuff. For $3 I do not hesitate to open a new jar just for a few boards.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:43:53 pm
content: Dried paste can back to life with some drops of isopropil alcohol.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 03:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: david77 on November 08, 2011, 07:55:48 amIt is certainly marketed in Australia as a German product.In the past,I have bought excellent products & junk too,all definitely made in Germany.Like I said,every country has companies which will try to sell you rubbish---China just seems to have more of them!VK6ZGO

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 05:42:01 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 08, 2011, 03:51:59 pmAnd they have that attitude if you are from the west you deserve to be ripped off.

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 06:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 08, 2011, 05:42:01 pmDon't quite agree with that. Every country has those marketing-specialists. For example, have a look on ebay. I often encountered from the US that they charge double the postage than they really pay. If you can make some extra money and the customer is far away.....what should happen to you?! Return the product: A) no return accepted b) Postage more expensive than the ProductPeople far away are more likely to be ripped off than ones that actually are near you and could sue you.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: metalphreak on November 08, 2011, 03:38:23 pmNormal room temperature or mail room (IE: back of a white van driven by a numbskull) temperature? Not something we ever get to know, but important for those who have to certify their products.QuoteAgreed. When your not using the stuff on a regular basis most of it ends up in a skip bin.QuoteAnd for three bucks you can afford to chuck any crook stuff. If you're getting results most of the time I can see the actual advantage.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 08:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on November 08, 2011, 05:42:01 pmThis goes hand in hand with our attitude that if it's from China it must be substandard yet cheaper than local production cost. Go figure.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 09:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: Achilles on November 08, 2011, 06:22:41 pmThe usual argument they make is the west stole so much from them (gunpowder, porcelain, paper ...), that they have a moral right to do so now in reverse.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 11:55:18 pm
content: Quote from: david77 on November 08, 2011, 07:55:48 amI just checked ,& you are correct!A sticker on the bottom says"Made in China".I can't believe I didn't check that!I'm not senile,I can still spell Alzh....,er,Alzei...er,.....The Vorwerk doesn't seem to be sold in Australia---After all,why would the local scam artists sell something good,when they can make big bucks selling Wertheim rubbish?The Wertheim was expensive,based on its so-called performance & a recommendation from "Choice " magazine.If it had been a third of the price,I would have said "fair enough,you bought cheap,you expect junk!",A $70 Japanese Sanyo is better engineered than this very expensive unit.VK6ZGO

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 03:32:18 am
content: QuoteUnfortunately, this isn't true. There are lots of "middlemen" who will happily slap their high-price label on the same junk you could get elsewhere for cheap. And that's without getting into controversial subjects like fashion, style or "audiophile quality." More typically there is the "exponential price increase for linear improvement" that goes with most actual high-end products. "Value for the money" is a very real concept.QuoteNonsense. It's tin, lead, and rosin, all of which are rather cheap commodities. Mostly likely source is manufacturers who have converted to lead-free, and have a surplus of lead-based solder that they can 1) sell for cheap, 2) throw away (and worry about local hazmat disposal rules, if any), or 3) use anyway. It could be old material or it could be material that failed one or another quality inspection, but the chances that it is "diluted with crap" are pretty minimal. There's not much cheaper to dilute it with!

author: Frangible
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 05:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on November 08, 2011, 09:28:24 pmAnd then calls it "Homeopathic Solder Paste!"

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 08:14:12 pm
content: If it isn't outright fakery its likely as AcHmed99 suggests, a QC issue. You can see it in a lot of other products such as the 858D hot air gun, some are far worse than others. However, besides the weight I'd worry more about whether the solder paste, is truly solder paste or that it isn't diluted by something that isn't solder paste.Quote from: AcHmed99 on November 08, 2011, 09:28:24 pm

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 10:37:47 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 09, 2011, 08:14:12 pmthe OP hasnt come back with any conclusion yet (i've made my calculation). so there's no hard proof on the topic. the chinese maybe lied about the weight, but the term "you get what you pay" still hold. i did get a total fake solder flux from chinese, its eligible to call it fake since it was a total "useless". and i do agree with you, most price we pay for high quality stuff will go to thing like QC, expensive machinery and labour cost, not directly at the product cost. chinese may have cut these costs.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2011, 10:58:41 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on November 08, 2011, 09:28:24 pm1 lb (450 g) of flux-core solder wire costs about $25 in the USA, of which the dominant cost is the metal content. Therefore I would expect 50 g of solder paste to cost about $3, again presuming the main cost component is the metal content.The high cost of solder paste might represent a significant mark-up on small quantity packaging, or it may be the cost of achieving a uniformity important to industrial process users.For the home user I don't think it is good value to pay $20 for 30 g of solder when you can have 450 g of the same solder for only a few dollars more.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 12:18:19 am
content: There's a huge market for solder paste in syringes and small tubs! Go to China visit any electronics repair booth, you see one or two lying around. It makes no sense buying more than they could consume, as mention these stuff expires. Needless to day, a lot of prototyping house also order these by the syringes since customer requirements for different type of solders.Solder paste cost more due to their short term storage, so no one would want to stock up on those in a large quantity. Guess what, small volume big price!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 12:56:19 am
content: I don't get why solder paste has such a limited storage life. It's not like it's a food product. Rosin flux paste lasts basically forever, and solder lasts basically forever, so why should the combination be so unstable? Is it because the finely divided solder gets eaten by the flux?

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 01:01:29 am
content: Quote from: westfw on November 09, 2011, 03:32:18 amI wish I could statistically prove this! It is quite true for multimeters. Once you go below $50 you start to see really crap products. Once you go above $500 there isn't much improvement, unless it's something really specific (precision kind of stuff). Maybe the price-benefit curve gets inverted at some point.

author: slipjointed
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 04:45:24 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 10, 2011, 12:56:19 amIt's mostly the stuff with highly acidic flux, it is reactive and it's only so long until flux and solder start to become one.

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 04:57:31 am
content: Since there's lead in it is it against the law to throw it into the trash? Anyway, it'd be nice if you could return that kind of stuff to manufacturers so they can recycle it somehow :/

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 07:08:55 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Maybe someone could design a binary flux past. Solder and flux to be mixed together in small batches at the time of use. The idea of course is to promote much longer shelf life, by preventing any degrading reaction. The solder particles would have to be carried in a nonreactive liquid though, otherwise you might end up inadvertently breathing them."It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge. " Enrico Fermi 1901 1954Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 10:39:59 am
content: Quote from: nukie on November 10, 2011, 12:18:19 ammaybe they only store this "dry small solder balls", tree sap, and isopropil alcohol separately. only mix it when there's order.