Tiny 2040 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 09:28:35 pm
content: Interesting stamp:

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 10:04:21 pm
content: Hey look, something that does less things for more money.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 11:14:34 pm
content: It's tiny.I have a product idea, a small stamp based on a NXP i.MX RT1170 with only 1 GPIO. Can you beat that!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2021, 11:21:58 pm
content: Why USB-C and not mini or micro USB?

author: oliviasmithh900
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 11:14:25 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on March 12, 2021, 11:21:58 pmNow everything's shifting to USB-C for better speed (I guess) and the main benefit is you can plug it in both ways

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2021, 09:11:45 am
content: Quote from: oliviasmithh900 on March 13, 2021, 11:14:25 pmThe connector does not affect the speed at all. 2040 is only capable of USB LS (low speed, 1.5 Mbits/s) and FS (full speed, 12 Mbits/s), regardless of the connector used.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2021, 02:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on March 12, 2021, 11:21:58 pmUSB type C connector is much better - easier to plug in, comes in both ways, has much better holding power.

author: mattselectronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 03:18:09 pm
content: Most USB-C Ports are also mechanically much more robust than all the other small USB connectors. This alone lets me preferr it over mini or micro USB connectors.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 03:37:25 pm
content: Mini and micro USB connectors love to break.I didn't feel sorry for them when the USB C came into the game

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 05:32:05 pm
content: None of my devices have USB C connectors, and I don't even have a USB C cable yet, so I cannot comment on whether the C connector is better.I hope so; but just don't know for sure yet, personally.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 05:36:34 pm
content: It is definitely much better.Drawback for the designer is that they are much more annoying to route (I mean, if you want to route them properly.) Another one is that they are hard to solder without a reflow oven. Unless you go for a mid-mount, with mixed SMD and TH pins. I've designed a couple boards with such a connector, and they are solderable by hand with no issue. And, another drawback is that they are a bit more expensive.The fun side with this tiny board is that the connector is almost half the size of the board itself.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 07:23:10 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 15, 2021, 05:36:34 pmThe type C connectors for USB 2.0 are very simple - single line, 0.5mm pitch. You do need two resistors, but these are needed only if the other end of the cable is connected to real type C port. If the other end is type A then resistors are not used.The type C connector for USB 3.0 is a bitch. The ones with two rows of SMD contacts are difficult to route and I guess you won't get a good yield with them. The ones with pins for the back side are much better though - easier to route, and easier to solder, and IMHO are better from SI viewpoint. I made a board with them. It worked, but I'm still working on a decent footprint for the next version - you need very small holes very close together. Also, they actually require a mux which switches the wires depending on the orientation of the plug - that's another $1-2 to your cost.For the Pico board, which is USB 2.0 (actually FS only), the USB 3.0 entanglements don't matter. I would use type C without any doubts. The micro B connector is not much smaller and is not nearly as nice as type C.

author: mattselectronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 09:52:20 pm
content: Do you have an recommondation for a USB 2.0 type C connector?Is there any defacto standard on a footprint, that is used by multiple manufacturers?So far I only found connectors with different footprints and that sucks, if that specific part is out of stock.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2021, 10:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on March 15, 2021, 05:32:05 pmSame here!- Just when I was starting to have plenty of USBtype Bcables, everybody started to use USBtype B mini. Not nice, but OK. Challenge accepted.- Then, gathered in time enough USBtype B minicables. That was when USBtype B microstarted to be the new mini. That was quite a lame move. Very fragile and hard to fit connector and, of course, new cables.- But hey, that's progress. For the 3rd time, piled up a reasonable number of cables, this time of USBtype B micro.And now, USBtype C!?

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 01:01:03 am
content: Quote from: mattselectronics on March 15, 2021, 09:52:20 pmIMHO, the most common footprint (not the exact part, but the footprint) is this:https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/gct/USB4105-GF-A/11198441

author: lucazader
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 02:18:03 am
content: Can confirm with Northguy.That is the most common one to find.Can be had with reasonable quality in china for around $0.1 (USD) or less each.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 09:40:15 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on March 15, 2021, 10:59:41 pmThe mini connector was the worst of all of them in terms of reliability, the micro was far better in terms of insertion life.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 05:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 15, 2021, 07:23:10 pmYeah. Even for pure USB 2.0, you still need to route both sides for the differential pair, which is reversed, so that's still a bit annoying. Requires tiny vias and proper symmetry. That is, if you want to route it properly, as I mentioned.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 08:38:08 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 16, 2021, 05:59:46 pmNot that annoying:

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 10:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 16, 2021, 08:38:08 pmYes, but reflections. Imbalance. OCD. Differential pair routing.Mostly OCD. It doesn't look right. It feels wrong.Oh, and the power has to come out of the port below those 5.1K resistors. Bad.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 10:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 16, 2021, 10:47:59 pmBesides those points - that may not be a big problem for USB HS - you can't route that way will all connectors. The only ones that I've found hand-solderable had pins that were not laid out like this, and which pretty much required using vias. Now I'd be interested in connectors that are both easy to route and easy to solder, but I couldn't really find any (at least available) when I needed them.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 11:15:15 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 16, 2021, 10:57:59 pmAfter banging my head for a long time, I settled on a connector that only has 12 pins. It looks like it has more, but actually there are pins shorted together, or way to close to each other. I've found TYPE-C-31-M-12 which is a LCSC part, and a compatible one from Digikey (not sure about the part number). I haven't tried soldering it yet.But to just brag a bit, I've soldered 1x2mm TVS arrays with 15 pins, DDR2 memory with hot air and this one doesn't look that difficult.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 11:37:00 pm
content: What's the drama with the vias?Are you doing single side boards yourself and soldering 0.5-0.3mm pitch components?Without solder mask it's impossible. It will cause shorts everywhere.The pair requires length matching if there's a considerable track length in the board.Otherwise, mounting it as close as possible to the interface, for 20... 50mm... will work well.I know it will break some ethics, buts that's trueI used a vertical, 90° angle, tru-hole connector in a personal project 2 years ago. Not a big deal, but 0.3mm vías and 6mil traces were needed.The space was a problem, that connector solved it very nicely.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 01:02:42 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 16, 2021, 10:57:59 pmLook at the DigiKey link I posted few posts ago. This footprint is very common. There are many parts with this footprint. They're very easy to route. They're very easy to solder manually. I soldered a dozen of test boards manually to test the enclosure fit.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 05:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on March 17, 2021, 01:02:42 amThanks. The one on your link is 0 stock. I think similar connectors were also hard to order, back when I needed them, at least from the distributors I use. But I'll certainly keep an eye on this for next time.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 06:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 17, 2021, 05:56:08 pmActually, Digikey's site is broken. If you search for the connector, they say they have more than 5000 on stock. You click on it, and it's 0. Farce.https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/usb-dvi-hdmi-connectors/312?s=N4IgjCBcoEwBxVAYygMwIYBsDOBTANCAPZQDaIALGHAMwCcArCALqEAOALlCAMocBOASwB2AcxABfQgFoE0ECkgYcBYmRAwADAHYaLCQaA