solder pot differences? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 09:12:20 am
content: I see cheap chinese solder pots on amazon that last 6 months and cost $20. I see expensive US made solder pots that are huge that run $5000. What is the difference that runs soo much more expensive? We are currently doing dip soldering and I'm trying to understand why not replacing chinese solder pots every 6 months is not a better idea.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 10:02:49 am
content: I would suspect accuracy of temperature control and solder contamination due to the solder dissolving the pot walls is the main difference apart from pot size. Also a lot of the extra cost of the US product probably goes into liability insurance - If one of your workers gets injured, good luck trying to trace and sue a Chinese national Amazon reseller that probably changes IDs every three months, and it would be even harder to definitely identify and sue the original manufacturer, so you the end user will end up carrying the liability. Better be certain it meets all applicable US electrical and safety regs, and your formal operating procedures and PPE requirements are safe and appropriate, as if you do have an incident, OSHA will be all over you like white on rice! Heck, the US one is probably worth the money, just to reduce the risk of fun time with your local OSHA inspector.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 10:16:30 am
content: We are less than 10 employees so OSHA rules aren't highly enforced. I would imagine you are correct about electrical safety issues being the main concern. I don't understand why China can't use higher grade wires/components to make things safer and charge $2 more.My only issue with China solder pot is that it produces decent amount of dross even when using dross eliminator. I would have preferred a solder fountain but not many decent choices. The nicer solder pots have pumps what are they for?

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 01:08:51 pm
content: Solder fountains are intended for integration into other soldering machine structures...for example selective soldering machines...wave soldering machines.The price tag reflects the higher wages American companies pay and in general higher operating costs.Chinese manufacturers can and do make equipment with good life expectancy... bu then Amazon merchants...ebay merchants etc do not sell that kind of gear out of China.How is Your wave soldering machine doing?Figure out the ins and outs?

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 02:14:13 pm
content: Thanks for the explanation. I was wondering why solder fountains are soo big. I like the size of the little ones as I can place them in every workstation.I sold the Novastar wave soldering machine and got a selective solder machine (Jade Pillarhouse). Haven't had time to set that up yet. Just setup some old DOS based MPM 2500s last night. Having issues with my Fuji CP-642 turret machine, somehow I have blown x,y,z servos all in one month. Luckily I am getting them from China for ~$200.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 08:08:09 pm
content: nice choice... a selective soldering machine is fine piece of kit to have to hand.Small solder pots have a purpose in life. (Magnet wire) Tinning , gold stripping. clearing up solderability issues etc.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 08:47:59 pm
content: Yes and they are very hard to find at a reasonable price. The one I have needs to be cleaned and some TLC. I will let you know once I get it up and running. Luckily their US HQ is down the street from me but these manufacturers like to make alot of money registering machines.We use solder pots for wire tinning and dip soldering. Our only issue is constant poking to remove dross.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 10:32:25 pm
content: Dross is a big issue in terms of both solder loss ( degeneration of alloy ) and time spent on continuous surface maintenance.Have You investigated various options on dross control from oils to nitrogen cover?If dipping of small components is what You do mostly then you may be able to incorporate a sheet metal shroud around the solderpot and gently apply a nitrogen atmosphere within the shroud. If you can bring the oxygen level low enough the solder will be like mercury...bright and highly wetting.If the opening in the shroud is not too generous the nitrogen consumption may be reasonable.The other option is an "oil" cover to keep dross under control. The "oil" is a heavy ... very heavy thick flux like substance which covers and protects the solder pot from oxygen in air.There is a down side to this process... dross will coagulate and mix in with flux residues; an unholy mess at clean time.You can source nitrogen much like any bottled gas.There are other chemical solutions but they may be too toxic to fit within occupational health and safety rules; for example formic acid ( ant juice ) will reduce the atmospheric content of oxygen in conjunction with the nitrogen shroud but due to the harmful effect on operator you may have to have exceptional exhaust system and atmospheric monitor to detect ( from fading memory ) 5PPM of acid in air.Your soldering supplies vendor may be the best source of information on this.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2019, 10:46:39 pm
content: I dont really want to mess with nitrogen if i don't have to. Somehow the table top solder pots are really nice as I can put them on each workstation. I did buy some oils but we had bad luck with them. We may have put too much or too little.I have been wishing to implement a similar solution to automate manual operations:https://www.schmalz.com/en/applications/application-reports/details/flow-grippers-scg-for-handling-assembled-printed-circuit-boards/Operator can load parts and robot can do difficult job of dip soldering. I am waiting for them to develop AI systems so I won't have to ask staff to do uber menial tasks.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 01:08:02 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on August 22, 2019, 01:08:51 pmMy amazon solder pots fail in less than 30 days. Even though I have the free replacement warranty its driving me nuts. I want to buy a reasonable priced 80-100mm solder pot. Can anyone recommend a decent one? Smaller the better. All the ones on ebay/amazon look exactly alike and I have replaced them 5+ times.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 05:48:07 am
content: I've been told to look at American Beauty solder pots as they last long.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 06:54:31 am
content: I hope their solder pots are better than their 'Little Dandy' irons!See:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/dangerous-soldering-iron-or-am-i-to-blame/I'd be suspicious enough to give anything from them the same level of scrutiny I would any mains powered bargain basement far east product.How are the Amazon pots failing? Is it excessive pitting or eroding through, or do they develop electrical problems? If the pot itself is failing it may well be that your solder alloy or flux are incompatible with the pot metallurgy.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 03:02:09 pm
content: I had two die yesterday. One had no power, the other would not heat. I believe the culprit is the electrical parts.

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 09:49:10 pm
content: They're pretty simple circuits - should be somewhat trivial to repair or even design/build a replacement.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2019, 10:02:32 pm
content: One of the problems is iron will be attacked by solder.SO the vessel walls need to be protected from the aggressive nature of solder. There are surface treatments but...The other option is finding a suitable alloy of titanium in order to reduce the loss of vessel material.ANd yet the third option and probably the best option is to source a cast iron pot and use it as the solderpot.Yes I know what is difference between iron alloys and cast iron You ask?The difference is the crystaline structure of cat iron where carbon provides a protective layer between iron and solder.A deep cast iron frying skillet ( pan ) could be a good candidate. Typically found in camping stores or second hand in various sales and what nots.Attaching heating elements to the pot should be a small problem and there you go. A solder pot of great longevity and performance for not much money.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 06:03:22 am
content: I bought a slightly used american beauty 600 watt cast iron solder pot for $70. I also bought an aven 300watt chinese style solder pot with 4 year replacement warranty. Aven looks better than amazon brands. I called both companies and they seem to stand behind their respective products.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2019, 11:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on August 22, 2019, 10:32:25 pmIn our wave solder machine Argon is used to keep the solder inside the pump shroud dross free but that is not something you'd want on a desktop solderpot

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 02:40:45 am
content: When in operation what is typical consumption of gas like in say liter /min.?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2019, 11:22:55 pm
content: I don't go near the thing but a teeny tiny amount, its just of those little canisters you use for welding and I'm pretty sure they last months.

author: 1276-2449-1-ND
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 02:31:41 pm
content: I bought a little Chinese solder pot years ago for lead tinning and use it a lot in a production environment (many thousands of leads) and it's worked flawlessly.I was planning to get an American Beauty pot, but a local shop had the Chinese one and I needed it immediately.I put the pot on a larger base because having that much liquid solder in close proximity made me nervous. It has no temperature control and I was going to add one but it's not necessary: Once it's hot and the solder is melted it's turned off and the thermal mass is sufficient to keep the temperature steady for about 20 minutes -- more than enough time to get through a pack of leads.Dross was also less of a problem than I thought. At the start of a job much of the dross can be picked from the (hard) surface. Then when it's heated what's left can be removed from the surface of the molten solder, but I usually keep it to prevent the solder underneath from oxidizing (as long as there's no large chunks). I clear a hole in the dross for the leads, and generally only need to clear it every 15 minutes or so.I bought a big bar of tin/silver solder several years ago and have only gone through about 1/4 of it.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 10:20:02 pm
content: SMtech,Thanks.Reckless i look forward to hearing of Your practical experience.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2019, 12:59:08 am
content: So far my employees have liked it. The dross remover has been a huge hit. I was worried that our pcbs would be to big to use it but my workers were able to get it to work. It seems industrial grade. Amazon chinese units did feel flaky. Aven unit has been functioning so far. This solved our solder pot dipping issue so far. I will come back to this thread if I have any more problems. The amazon/ebay units are just terrible. We went through 5 of them in 6 months.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2019, 01:02:38 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on December 05, 2019, 12:59:08 amCan you tell us more about the dross remover? Is there a photo of it somewhere?

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2019, 01:11:22 am
content: You see the little silver ring, you rotate it around the pot to remove dross in half a second. Easiest method to remove dross I have seen. Sped up our production times greatly. That's why the American Beauty solder pot has become the go to solder pot even though its a bit ugly (reminds me of fondue pot).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2019, 03:41:47 am
content: Seems a bit obstructive. Most of the time I use a solder pot, I fill the pot to the very top with a meniscus bulging over. Scrape the dross with a steel straight edge, occasionally. You can also desolder thru hole components by floating the PCB on the solder. No worries about the sides of the pot oxidizing. You just need to set it on a solid bench, of course.Small pot for the win. Takes less solder to fill it. The PCB can be much bigger than the pot; the pot just has to be large enough to cover the entire component.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 02:02:41 am
content: So we managed to break two solder pots in the last week. Each one day apart. One american beauty and the other nicer quality chinese brand. I am not sure what we are doing wrong. We do use 8 hours a day straight, 5 days a week. Our power is fine. When they go bad they stop reheating. Any ideas?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 02:12:59 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on February 17, 2020, 02:02:41 amTake apart and find what's broken. At least check heater for continuity.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 03:33:12 am
content: Yes technician came in today to see what happened. On the American Beauty solder pot the 7 amp fuse was blown. I think it might have been affected by one of the workers putting a space heater on same circuit a few weeks ago. The other solder pot we replaced under insurance warranty. We do use a heat gun on same circuit from time to time so I am not sure if that could be affecting the total amperage on the circuit along with our 200 watt solder irons.