How to panelize pcb? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: somuchtyler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 07:11:57 pm
content: I got a little PCB that I am making, its size is 18mm by 39mm. I can get 10 pcbs (100mm x 100mm) for $4.90 from elecrow. So I could probably fit like 10 of them on 100mm x 100mm.. I am using "circuitmaker" to make the PCB, but I really want to panelize it (with mouse bite, because vscore costs more money), but I don't have the tools to do it.. Circuitmaker apparently doesn't allow panelization of boards since its their free version. So I am wondering is there something else I could use where I could import the gerber files and it panelizes it for me...?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 07:25:12 pm
content: In Eagle, you don't need to use a special tool to panelize a board. You can just copy and paste the board after you "break annotation," which removes the connection to the schematic.Are you going to make your own stencil and/or order one from a third party? Or are you going to assemble them on your own PnP or have them assembled by another party? That would be the biggest reason I imagine you might want to panelize the board yourself, so you can have that file.If those don't apply, most manufacturers panelize a board for you, and they will make it as space-efficient as possible from their perspective, using their materials/machines. They have heard of mousebites. These PCB manufacturers have a lot of experience in panelizing boards for assembly/manufacture, relative to you or me, I'm sure.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 07:31:02 pm
content: Most PCB manufacturers will do the panelizing as service, including cutting the contours with little breakoff tabs. They'll even accomodate different PCBs on one panel.You probably just need to check another place on their website for this.

author: mark03
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 08:08:15 pm
content: Some of the inexpensive aggregator services, like OSH Park and Dirty PCBs, expressly disallow panelized designs. I don't know much about Elecrow, but you should probably check to make sure this is ok.One of those sites, I think it was Dirty PCBs, has a credit at the bottom of the page for the gerber tools they are using. You might start there.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 08:16:00 pm
content: Many (most?) of the PCB vendors appear to expressly disallow panelized designs. Especially if you are trying to take advantage of their (for example) 100x100mm "introductory special" schemes. If you try to do that, they will charge you the price for separate boards even though I fail to see how it makes any difference to them (aside from losing the revenue from charging for each copy).It is this charging what appears to be artificially high prices for small boards that makes me think seriously about making my own boards vs. sending out to Asia. Are there PC board vendors who charge sensible prices for multiple small boards?

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 08:51:05 pm
content: If it is the same design you are panelising, not multiple boards, then JLC And others like it make this easier since they do it all including v-score, just upload the normal Gerber and say how many rows and columns you want of it in each panel. I did one a while back, don't think it cost much (any) extra from memory, only once you go to multiple designs does it get more pricey.For merging gerbs into moiusebite panels google this is not rocket science Gerber merge, I have used this a number of times with DirtyPCBs - for which the 2 layer service is fine with them, but not the 4 layer. Most other manufacturers will either reject or charge like a wounded bull because "multiple designs".

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 09:00:25 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 09, 2018, 08:16:00 pmI wondered about that myself and the only explanation I could think of is processing time and toolcost for the extra milling and drilling.There is also some unwritten rule about maximum nr of holes, if you enter your own prototype board with a few thousand holes it probably will also be rejected or increase in cost.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2018, 09:43:21 pm
content: Just had a look at that JLC order, it didn't cost me any extra as long as the panel was under the normal size (100x100 as it was). Just upload your single gerber, the "Dimensions" are the single pcb size, the PCB Qty is the number of panels you want, choose "Panel by JLC" and put in the number of rows and columns, the panel size below is calculated and then check the price.Obviously this is only good for rectangular/square pcbs, any curves and v-score isn't so useful to you.This is the panel that cost me $2 for 10 panels plus shipping, 100 pcbs total, looks like they have changed their calculation slightly and this 2x5 would now not go through for that price since including the edges it's slightly over 100x100, but I could do 2x4 within the limits.Not that I'm a JLC fan boy, but, that is a ridiculous cheap price by any account and there's nothing wrong with the quality or speed of production.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 03:58:59 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on October 09, 2018, 09:00:25 pmNo and No. No interior milling at all. And no more holes than if it were a single board. If itlookslike repeated patterns, the price skyrockets. I can't even get a design with a fold (90 degree angle end piece) to be treated as a single board. No milling or grooving involved. Maybe if I disguise the 90-degree joint as a 20-pin DIP package. Perhaps that will fool themQuoteProbably, but I have never heard of anyone hit that limit. Have you?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 06:56:29 am
content: No , a quick google found some manufacturers with hole limit like this one with 350 holes max. :https://www.expresspcb.com/miniboard-standard/

author: kjr18
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 07:36:39 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 09, 2018, 09:43:21 pmI did the same with my small li-ion charger/booster thing. I made this way 80 pcs for about 12$ with shipping included. It's hard to beat that price.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 08:46:29 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 10, 2018, 03:58:59 ami did panelize my board in Altium and then sent to Itead, no extra cost no question asked. they just forgot to send me free open source board as they claimed to offer, or maybe thats the penalty for me not sure. but i didnt expect/ask them to mill/cut for me, i cut it myself.Quote from: Richard Crowley on October 10, 2018, 03:58:59 amistr itead specify the limit, but i guess only rf/ghz stuff that will hit it.

author: somuchtyler
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 04:10:13 pm
content: Anyhow, I found what I was looking for athttps://github.com/ThisIsNotRocketScience/GerberToolsTutorial:https://hackaday.com/2017/06/21/panelizing-boards-the-easy-way/

author: xaxaxa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 06:11:29 pm
content: Elecrow doesn't charge for multiple designs as long as your milled slots are 2mm or wider, and the board is mechanically rigid. Or just don't put slots at all and saw it apart yourself.Don't use the automatic panelizing software because from what I've seen none of them respects the mechanical characteristics of the resulting PCB. The board won't be acceptable for the automatic handling and transport robots and will be a huge pain for the board house to deal with. I've seen plenty of bad examples. This and the time cost of milling are the main reasons board houses charge for multiple designs. MAKE SURE YOUR PANEL IS ABSOLUTELY MECHANICALLY RIGID.JLCPCB has a rule that if the length of the longest slot is more than 1/3 of the board width, it is considered to be separating two designs and will cost extra. Presumably this is due to many dumb users submitting shit filmsy pcb panel designs and they are fed up.EDIT: that top picture in the linked hackaday article is just one such bad example of a mechanically filmsy and impossible to handle panel. If you send this kind of design to a board house don't be surprised when they ask for $100 in engineering fees.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 08:20:11 am
content: I can't believe no one has said this stuff yet. I've been burned by this vary stuff so I SERIOUSLY recommend anyone thinking of panalizing a design pays attention to this...While the PCB Manufacturer can design the panel for you (and you should probably let them do it if you don't know what you are doing), you must do the following things:1) Make the PCB Manufacturer send you the panel design before they actually make it, and make sure they send you the full panel design (including any Routes, Mousebites, holes, or fiducials they add) not just the rough outline.2) Have your PCB Assembly house approve the design. I have had my assembly CM reject panels before because the rails weren't wide enough or because there wasn't enough support for how they wanted to hold the panel when it went through the machine.3) Once your CM approves the panel, KEEP THE FULL PANEL DESIGN DRAWING!!! and make sure you send it along EVERY TIME you order boards, especially if you change PCB manufacturers. Once your CM is set up for that design (paste stencils, pick and place programs, etc) if you change anything you will need to pay new NRE for all new assembly stuff. This is why you need to get the full panel design up front and keep it as a fab document. Don't rely on the PCB manufacturer to remember what they did last time. Make this panel design part of the fab package.Now if you are hand assembling the boards, then this is less important. But if you ever plan on having a CM assemble your boards then you should really be on top of the panel design/records.

author: srce
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 01:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: somuchtyler on October 10, 2018, 04:10:13 pmYep, I've used that before with Dirty PCBs. Worked well and easy to use

author: t1d
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 03:25:41 am
content: The board houses that I have used - basically those offering 100mmx100mm, for a set price - specifically allow panelizing of multiple designs, if the various designs only have drawn lines, to indicate where to cut them apart, yourself. That is to say, there is only one, outside cut edge, for the whole panel. So, when you import/append the different designs, onto a single panel, you need to remember to go back and change all of the interior cut edge lines, to the silkscreen layer, before submitting it to the board house.Don't try to cheat their deal, by placing routings/etc., for separation cuts. That will just make them stop offering this option.I have always found the details, regarding panelization, in the ordering instructions. But, you have to look for it.Seeed and Itead, do it, for sure...I cut mine apart with a cheap tile saw. I use a diamond blade, that is a solid circle... That is, no teeth gaps... It came from Harbor Freight... The cheap, black, plastic one. It works absolutely great! Cutting panels is a cool breeze!

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 06:44:20 am
content: I dunno, I just sent a panelized board made using ThisIsNotRocketScience as is. JLC PCB, then just routed the edges, and did the lines between boards as vscore.I found "Panel by JLC" to be useless to me, it's no mentioned anywhere but it adds a 5mm strip of extra PCB material to the left and right edges of the panel.This is a problem if you send them 2.8cm high by 5cm wide PCBs as it automatically makes it into an 11x8.4cm panelDid fine later, my PCB software Designspark, allows copy and pasting of PCB designs, even from other projects.