Is this company a bunch of thieves? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 10:46:32 am
content: I ordered some stuff worth about 65 US dollars and 4 months later it still hadn't arrived. Contacted them and 1 month later still nothing. Escalated it to a dispute with PayPal and the company emailed me this:---------A staff has responded to your request. And your action is required.Dear xxxxx,Thanks for your reply.We can resend the package to you.Would you please close the paypal dispute first? Please kindly know that only when you close the paypal dispute that can we handle this issue for you.If you close the paypal dispute, please let us know via this ticket.Thanks in advance.Best regards,JoannaTo reply, please visit the following link:---------------To which I replied no, you send the goods then I will close the dispute.To which they replied:--------------A staff has responded to your request. And your action is required.Dear xxxxx,Thanks for your reply.Please kindly know that if you keep the dispute, the money will be forzen all the time. We cannot arrange a resend.Please close the paypal dispute first.If you close the paypal dispute, please let us know via this ticket.Thanks in advance.Best regards,JoannaTo reply, please visit the following link:-------------Now I find that after I have cancelled the dispute through PayPal then if the good still don't arrive for whatever reason I cannot re-open the dispute. I would have lost my money.Does it sound like this company is following the proper procedure or are they just brushing me off? For certain, if the goods still don't arrive I will be publishing their name here in big red letters.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 11:22:23 am
content: What I can say, you acted like a fool. Who the hell waits 4 months, 2 months is absolute maximum even if the shipping is insanely slow to your place. And AFAIK shipping from the China to Australia is fast compared to the rest of the world. If you close the dispute right now, it is not a tiny bit better (unless it i tiny seller and a huge money) for the seller than closed dispute a month later (it is, if the seller is not honest and don't want to ship anything). What I can say, good luck getting anything from them.QuoteWhat kind of seller it is that cannot allow to have $65 frozen for some time? I'd say that reply automatically qualifies for being escalated and 100% refund. Close the dispute and communicate outside of paypal?

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 11:24:43 am
content: Do not close the dispute. Keep an eye on PayPal time limits. Escalate if you feel you are getting nowhere or are reaching the end of a time limit.Edit: Yes 4 months is too long. Hong Kong post takes 6-7 days to me and I am much further away than you, the problem is most of these sellers use 'china free post' with takes on average a month. Even if they claim to be in Hong Kong. For a $65 order they can afford to spend by proper post, which is still dirt cheap.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 11:58:19 am
content: Wow, you're quite patientThe seller is typical scammer, only interested in his paypal credibility and trying to lure customers into the "closed dispute" trap. If the buyer agrees, he doesn't have any leverage anymore. Game Over!

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 01:41:16 pm
content: sent the email to paypal and let them handle it, it sounds terrible.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 02:10:06 pm
content: Yes, reply a standard message.Quote

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 02:14:54 pm
content: Closing sounds like the wrong choice. Make sure the seller goes the extra mile in cases like this to keep their rating up. That's what the rating system is for, if they are not working for your interest I would make sure to get the cash back and order somewhere else.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 03:14:25 pm
content: Leave the dispute open, and let PayPal intervene (assuming the time limits haven't expired). Otherwise, as others have mentioned, there's zero incentive for the seller to do anything other than keep the money and continue with the scam as long as possible.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 03:18:33 pm
content: I've had this before. There's an escalate button. Hit that, copy and paste the email into the form and paypal will sort it. Takes a couple of weeks but they will recover the cash and kill their account as it's a direct violation of their T&C.Don't give in. Ignore their pleading. They're trying to rip you off.

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 03:33:46 pm
content: Do not close the dispute, escalate it. Even if you don't care about the loss of your $65 by escalating it you are helping other potential customers by putting fraudulent sellers out of business.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 05:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on May 31, 2016, 03:18:33 pm+1 to this.Do NOT close the dispute. It is your only leverage.Don't be afraid of their language, "money will be frozen all the time" whatever that means. The dispute is the only way you will get your money back, don't let them scam you into giving away your only leverage. Also, definitely forward those e-mails to Paypal, via the escalate option, as others have advised. I'm betting Paypal won't like what they see.As others have said, this seller is probably a scammer luring people into closing the disputes, then they don't need to do anything. They have your money and there is nothing you can do about it.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 06:06:56 pm
content: Getting a refund is the easy part, just don't communicate outside of PayPal.Whats the site?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2016, 07:59:54 pm
content: Closing the dispute means that you've come to a satisfactory arrangement with the seller. You'll probably find you'd be unable to open another dispute in the future for the same item.There are only two scenarios where I would close a dispute myself, either:1. I get a full refund.2. I receive a replacement product which is of suitable quality and as described.Until one of those occur, the dispute stays open. If they keep playing games, take the refund and re-order the product again via another transaction (but I'm dubious of sellers who behave like this, I personally wouldn't be going back).

author: cimmo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 08:01:06 am
content: Concur with all previous advice.But I will add one more bit - link your paypal accout with a credit card and in future select the credit card as the source of Paypal funds.That way, if something goes wrong and Paypal weasel out of giving you a refund, you can claim a refund (chargeback) via your credit card issuer.

author: batteksystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2016, 11:21:38 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on May 31, 2016, 10:46:32 amYou should not close it. I had this case one from a buyer from Philippines. He doesn't received the goods yet after shipping out for 3 weeks (although there is tracking). So a dispute is opened for around a week until he received it and close the case himself. I think most of the buyers and sellers are honest, but from other chinese forum I do heard that people scam on paypal exist. Right now it is a lot harder as each paypal account require verification.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 01:58:38 am
content: Young folks and engineers seem particularly susceptible to believing everything is a scam - it's totally unwarranted and out of line for some of the responders to say the OP is being scammed.The reason the seller wants the buyer to close the dispute is because as soon as a buyer opens a dispute, the money is frozen until the dispute is resolved. If the buyer does not voluntarily close the dispute, it will auto-close or will be escalated to PayPal. If escalated to PayPal, they will refund the buyer unless there is a tracking number showing proof of delivery.For international transactions, there will not be such a tracking number and it won't be able to be re-shipped and delivered before the deadline to auto-close or escalate to PayPal.What this means is, from a sellers perspective, they *are* going to lose the money, as well as 2 shipments worth of goods. So for a seller, when someone opens a dispute and wants a re-shipment, most sellers will not do it or will ask them to close the dispute first. I do the same thing. The better course of action is to contact the seller prior to opening a dispute and that gives the buyer the option to open a dispute at a later date, or to just refund the buyer and cancel the transaction.I doubt the seller is scamming anyone and I doubt the buyer is either. Yes, asking someone to close a dispute seems fishy, but do does waiting 4 months to claim non-receipt of goods. But most people are honest and most scammers don't scam for a few bucks here and there, they would be scamming for hundreds of thousands or millions.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 09:53:58 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 06, 2016, 01:58:38 amActually that's what the OP did. He tried to contact the seller before opening the dispute, but didn't receive any response. No response but asking to close the dispute seems very fishy to me.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 10:21:31 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 06, 2016, 01:58:38 amI don't know , I had the same experience two times out of 60 transactions. They tell you it was sent, it never arrived, you contact them and they say they will sent it again and still it never arrives. Hmmmm two times sent two times no arrival, that sure is statistically not a big chance.So maybe old folks are just to good from trust and are easy markings for bad persons. There are 7 billion people on this planet and even if only 5% is bad that still are a lot of bad people.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 11:16:19 am
content: Be careful, they have more tricks up their sleeve and know all the loop holes of ebay and paypal and shall guide you off. You just need to fall for one of the next N suggestions and paypal/ebay shall rule against you.

author: Ontaelio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 07:56:07 pm
content: This is a sure scam.Two simple rules:a) if the package gets lost, an honest seller will always want to refund to cut his risks. In fact, they will refund even if you ask them to re-send;b) if the package arrived, but the product is wrong/faulty, an honest seller will always want to re-send the goods to cut his losses.This is simple economics. The only reason they'll want to behave differently is when they know they didn't send anything.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 08:11:17 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on May 31, 2016, 10:46:32 amThey are brushing you off!Never ever close a Paypal dispute until you receive the parcel or a refund!I always open a Paypal dispute if a parcel takes too long and in many cases I receive a similar e-mail from the various Ebay sellers. After opening a dispute there still is a grace period for the package too arrive so I wait for the grace period to almost expire before turning the dispute into a claim.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2016, 08:14:55 pm
content: +1 to Ontaelio.If its reported as lost, a full refund avoids any future liability or further losses on that order. If the same customer reports another order missing, its time to consider sacking the customer unless their order volume is high enough for the loss rate to be normal.The O.P's supplier stinks like last week's shellfish . . . .@nctnico,Correction: "Never ever close a Paypal dispute until you receive the parcel or a refund!" should be "Never ever close a Paypal dispute until you receive the goods as described or a refund!".Open and check the order before closing any dispute as some lame-ass scammers have been known to ship rocks in a box in an attempt to time-out a high value dispute, or a quasi-legit supplier that's under pressure may simply ship another customer's faulty returns straight out to you.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2016, 04:01:04 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on June 06, 2016, 01:58:38 amGood engineers and money-wise people operate on a motto: "Trust, but verify."When verification gets dodgy, trust goes out the window.