Rigol ds1054z - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:00:38 am
content: I have a rigol with a month of use, and as I bought it in tequipamnet, when I start it after a long free time, if the tips are set X10, they decompensate with the operation of the minutes everything is fixed, This does not happen the same if X1 is configured, the measurements are correct compared to a TEK oscilloscope and a RIGOL function generator. Once they are compensated, everything works perfect, but I do not like that defect. The problem that does not have technical information about it is not where to start looking for the fault, I tend to bad welding, but this affects the four channels more to one than to the other. I sent both tequipamento and Rigol, without any response, and the cost of sending it from Argenina to the US costs me the same as the oscilloscope.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:02:59 pm
content: I upload some images of the problem, the first is X10 probes, where the defect is seen.The second image is taken at the same time as the first one, configured probes X1.and the third probe image configured X10, ten minutes after having initialized the oscilloscope.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:08:31 pm
content: Are you saying the probe compensation drifted "AFTER" you have done the compensation at the "SAME" probe ?Or different probe ?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:18:40 pm
content: Bear with me, as I'm trying to understand what the issue is, so here comes the questions...When I look at the first image you've posted, have you adjusted the compensation screw to get a nice square wave to start with?If you have, are you saying you can't get it any better than what's on the first image (stays out of cal no matter where you adjust it; i.e. drift asBravoVis asking)?Lastly, is it consistent with all the probes or just select ones?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:18:57 pm
content: This was posted before by the same user. He is saying that as soon as the scope is turned on, the signal is uncompensated, then after some minutes (I remember he said 5 - 10 min), the signal get compensated all by itself.I really cannot imagine any component that can be experiencing such temperature change in that short time.What happens if you turn it off, then on back again? Are the probes uncompensated? If yes, then it is not a temperature issue.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 27, 2018, 12:08:31 pmthe four probes are the original ones, they are compensated, what happens is that when I start it after many hours off, if the probes are configured X10, they start decompensated and ten minutes later they are fine, it is not the same if I configure them X1.Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 12:18:40 pmthis happens in the four probes, ten minutes later they are perfect.Quote from: BravoV on April 27, 2018, 12:08:31 pmthis happens in the four probes, ten minutes later they are perfect as they compensate

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 12:18:40 pmI thought I was the only one that confused on the OP's post. It seems like there is a language barrier here.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:38:39 pm
content: Do you have any other probes you can test with?This would isolate the issue to either the scope or the included probes.It may not matter, but they changed the included probes at some point IIRC.Mine are the RP2200 passive probes (older ones), and I'll check to see if they behave the same as what you're experiencing*.* I don't recall this being the case, but I'd rather test to be sure.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:47:17 pm
content: Try these :- Use only one probe at say port 1- Set to 10X (and DO NOT change to 1X during the test)- Compensate the probe byusing the supplied screw driverto make sure its ok- Wait or do use the scope as normal for hours.- Again, DO NOT switch to 1X during the test.- DO NOT change the probe or move to other ports, stay at port 1.Does the problem still exist ?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:49:42 pm
content: these are the probes that the rigol DS1054Z now brings, are the PVP2150

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 12:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 27, 2018, 12:47:17 pmHi, as I said before, once it takes about ten minutes, the probes are compensated, regardless of the channel, this happens after the oscilloscope has been off for several hours. at this moment after an hour it is this way.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:01:17 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 12:54:09 pmSorry, "the computer" here you mean is the oscilloscope right ?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:03:23 pm
content: yes, the oscilloscope, I sorry

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:24:00 pm
content: The problem is not only the cost of return shipping from Argentina to the US, but Tequipament recommends me to contact RIGOL, and RIGOL tells me to contact Tequipament, who sold it to me, and I only I ask you to guide me where to look for the fault, I do not know if it is a problem of power, of the power source or of bad welding, there are people who have changed the oscilloscope and sent it with another fault.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:27:45 pm
content: Have you run a self-cal on it?Doubt this will affect what's going on, but it's worth a shot.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:34:09 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 01:27:45 pmyes, I have done a self-calibration with and without the present error, nothing changes, and with the tips of the tektronic the error continues

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:43:42 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 01:34:09 pmSo you have been able to test the DS1054Z with different probes and get the same result?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:51:55 pm
content: Yes, if I turn it on without the probes and at 10 minutes connect the probes it is compensated, the same if I turn it on with the probe connected. the probes I use are from a tektronic

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 01:59:20 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 01:51:55 pmI get the frustration.FWIW, I'm accustomed to turning gear on and letting it warm up (still recommended/required on current gear). So I've not paid any attention to the issue you're experiencing (don't know if it's normal or not).I need to let mine cool down (ran a fresh cal to give it a clean slate if you will), and I'll see if I can't reproduce it with the RP2200 or other probes I have on hand.Next questions:After it's warmed up 10min+, does it behave as it should with measured signals (not just 1kHz square for probe cal)?Do you have another scope to compare the same signal (CRO, DSO, doesn't matter)?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 01:59:20 pmif after heating (it seems we are talking about a valve equipment) behaves well compared to a TEK TDS 1154 and a function generator Rigol DG1022, both teams belong to a friend. The rigol picks up a little more noise than the tektronix with the original tips, with the TEK it works excellent, always after 10 minutes.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:17:47 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 02:08:04 pmEven for non-valve equipment (save its CRT if present).For example, I've a TEK 2445B on hand which needs to warm up a bit. I usually give it ~30min.On current equipment, take theTektronix 71507.5digit DMM. According to it's documentation, it requires a 90 min. warm up time. It even generates a log entry when this period is completed.Granted, this ^ is a precision instrument, but there may still be heated references and such used in other gear. Precision PSU's would be another bit of kit that may take this approach.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:21:40 pm
content: Dug into the manual for the 2445, and found...Quote

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 02:21:40 pmOk but the Tek 2445 is valvular, it's like the old TV or radio equipment, it is incredible that this happens with a digital equipment. My doubt is that if it is a poorly welded component this will worsen or directly die. And another thing the people of Tequipament and Rigol leaves much to be desired, since they were dedicated to dodge the problem before recommending any advice to review the equipment.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: TK on April 27, 2018, 12:18:57 pmok, if I turn it off and turn it on within a time range from 0 minutes to plus or minus 30 minutes, the probe remains compensated, the longer the error begins to be noticed.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:45:13 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 02:26:50 pmThe only valve in a 2445B is the CRT (or any other 24xx or 22xx series). Everything else is purely solid state.If I understand the rest of your statement/concern, are you talking about thermal cycling of a bad solder joint?If this turns out to be the case, at least it's an easy fix.As per your issues between TEquipment and Rigol, it's ultimately the compromise made by purchasing it in US at an acceptable price (not even sure there is an Argentinian distributor). The global locations make it a mess.Technically this is agrey marketpurchase. FWIW, some manufacturers even use this as an excuse to void the warranty unless it's sent back to the original country of purchase.For clarification (further information on link)...QuoteOf course, this is getting outside of what's going on with your scope.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:50:07 pm
content: Here in Argentina the two who say they are representatives, told me to talk with Rigol or Tequipament, since they only sell it, they do not have the service documentation of this equipment, they say that Rigol leaves the merchant both the seller and the user orphan.bad father

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 02:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 02:50:07 pmThe term: monkey fucking a football seems very appropriate here.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 03:00:31 pm
content: is true

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 03:29:54 pm
content: Glad you got a laugh out of it.Support issues like this really separates the adults from the juveniles in terms of corporate structure & response. Rigol's gotten to the point they're making at least acceptable equipment (I suspect their new ASIC will really give their gear a boost), but they're still falling short on distributor issues as well as solving customer issues. They're getting better, but it will take time. Hence the juvenile comparison (still growing up).Same goes for other Chinese based T&M manufacturers (i.e. Siglent Uni-Trend, Hantek). Taiwanese companies I'm familiar have been around longer, and fare a lot better at support IME (i.e. GW Instek, DER EE).So it's the trade-off/compromise we make to get less expensive gear ATM. After all, proper support costs money and is reflected in the MSRP of their products.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 03:34:14 pm
content: If the bad thing that the "support" they say they provide is a true lie.For now, as I only do small projects of electronics and arduino, I use it with the probe in X1, and at the same time I configure it in X10, until I provide the solution.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 03:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 02:21:40 pmThe Rigol user manual requires 30 minutes warm-up time before running Self Cal, and also indicates in the Specifications appendix that specs are only valid after 30 minutes of operation.https://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/DS1000Z_UserGuide_EN.pdf,pages 14-9 and 17-1.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 03:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 03:34:14 pmFrom what I've seen here in the US (US office), it's not all that bad. Seem to recall they usually responded within a day or two. The part I really find annoying though, is you have to request firmware and wait for them to send you the link.The only other annoying issue I've had, is with the 1x/10x switch sliding to 1x extremely easily and has no tactile feel to let me know it's moved. Fixed with a bit of tape, but it's still a minor nuisance in the grand scheme of things.Quote from: ebastler on April 27, 2018, 03:43:17 pmThanks. I'd forgotten that they specified a 30 min warm-up. But I've made it a habit to turn gear on and wait that long.So much so it's pretty much a Pavlovian response at this point (minus the food).

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 04:09:36 pm
content: The Rigol user manual requires 30 minutes warm-up time before running Self Cal, and also indicates in the Specifications appendix that specs are only valid after 30 minutes of operation.if I have that in mind, but1- It does not say that the X10 probes will start unbalanced after being turned off for a long time.2- And for the time of 30 minutes for an optimal measurement, these Chinese of Rigol if they do not win it, surely they tie it.

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 04:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 12:23:47 pmDo you live near the ocean? sound like some kind of heavy moisture effects from salty air nearby the sea. Moisture disappears when the 1054 heats up...Michael

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 04:52:49 pm
content: no friend, I live in Concordia, province of Entre Rios, in Argentina, about 650km from the Atlantic Ocean. I continue listening to yourgenders.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 07:52:44 pm
content: OK, it's sat OFF long enough it's at room temp.Results:Probes were properly compensated right after turning it ON. None of the strange behavior you're experiencing.Given what you've described, thermal cycling is a very strong possibility of it's cause IMHO. And as it's not channel specific, you don't need to remove the shielding on the front ends and check there. Save you some effort at any rate.Do you have any cold spray?If not, I've used a duster can inverted (sprays liquid) as a substitute.A hair dryer can be of use as well (faster than waiting on the equipment to heat up).

author: Roeland_R
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 08:22:01 pm
content: Do you have the same problem when measuring an external squarewave instead of using the internal calibration signal?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 10:05:59 pm
content: yes Sr. same problem, after it compensates it remains like a violin

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 10:09:13 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 27, 2018, 07:52:44 pmif I think I'm going to have to uncover it and see if I find the weld failed, which I think is the problem. what is "thermal cycling"

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 10:15:25 pm
content: this image is registered depies of two hours of use.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2018, 11:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 27, 2018, 10:09:13 pmThermal cycling is just a term for heating & cooling cycles on the PCB's/components. It can introduce mechanical flex, and if that happens to occur on an improper solder joint, it can cause undesirable behavior (even cause a joint to fail). The result could be anything from intermittent operation to varied values for example, which sounds like what you're experiencing to me.I'd definitely open it up and carefully inspect the solder joints after the analog input sections. Use magnification if you have it (hard to spot sometimes with the naked eye).Using cold spray and a hair dryer can help you locate a bad joint. This technique can help you find it quickly and easily, particularly if the joint appears good during a visual inspection. For example, a component appears to have wet properly, yet the component lifts off of the pad when heated or cooled as the connection is purely mechanical. It's a very handy technique, and can really speed up finding such a fault.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 12:55:44 am
content: ok, I'm going to see if I can get the spray to cool down in my city.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 01:18:33 am
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 28, 2018, 12:55:44 amCold spray tends to be R134a refrigerant (i.e.MG Chemicals Super Cold 134).A simple trick you can use if you don't have cold spray is turn a duster can upside down so it sprays liquid.Cheap and easy.

author: pgo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 05:27:18 am
content: Hi,Just my two cents worth.Since all four channels have the same fault and drift in the same fashion I believe it would be unlikely to be a soldering problem. I would not think that poor soldering quality would be that consistent across channels.It could be some kind of contamination problem as suggested earlier I guess - it's at least plausible.However I would suggest that a manufacturing fault it the cause - likely one of the front end components are incorrect - for example the same capacitor in each channel has the wrong value (less likely) or is of the wrong type with anincorrect temperature coefficient. This would account for temperature dependent drift on all channels due to a single error - incorrect batch of capacitors.Since the drift occurs within the warranted warm up period you may not have a case under warranty?We did have several oscilloscopes at work that had significant drift in trace position on the screen during warm-up - about half a division. The supplier argued that this was within specs. We ended up returning them.bye

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 01:28:51 pm
content: Whatever the problem, I have to solve it. Since it has three years of warranty, but the costs of return shipping cost almost the same as the equipment, I would have liked that Rigol had sent me a service manual, to know where to look. The oscilloscope once it stabilizes is going well, but it is the first and last time that I bought in of Rigol and tequipament. Example a year ago I bought a Chinese welding station, came with the failed display, after 45 days I received a display replacement, I changed it and now it works well.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 01:42:44 pm
content: Can you measure Peak to Peak voltage when it is uncompensated and compensated?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 03:07:51 pm
content: ok, tomorrow I upload the images of compensated and uncompensated values.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 06:23:50 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 28, 2018, 01:28:51 pmI doubt that a service manual even exists. Or if there is one, that it goes beyond: "Here's how to open the unit and swap one of the two PCBs."

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 09:42:56 pm
content: Dave reverse engineered the DS1054Z front end.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-675-how-to-reverse-engineer-a-rigol-ds1054z/msg534470/#msg534470

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2018, 10:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: TK on April 28, 2018, 01:42:44 pmthe first image is uncompensatedand this is already compensated after about ten minutes.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2018, 01:17:02 pm
content: and this image is after 14 hours off.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2018, 06:11:23 pm
content: I ask, it can not be a power source problem, since the defect is of the four channels, but in different ways?

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 08:57:07 am
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 29, 2018, 06:11:23 pmWell, I would really like to see all 4 channels together, not only CH1 and some kind of a timeline...It would be also very interesting to see if other, non-Rigol probes do the same mysterios things to see if it is a probe-related problem or a 1054z based one.Anyway, if the probes stay correct compensated after 10min powerd up... who cares... maybe wrong capacitors in the frontend? No NPO but Y5V (0,002€ct cheaper per 1k)? who knows...Most of the more complex electronic devices needs some kind of warmig up. The LeCroy - Currentprobes (3 years old) loose there Zerocompensation when changing range, my LISN-Receiver needs about 30min for repeatable results and my (home made) diffprobes also need some warming up not only because the Opamp-bias currrents rise.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 10:25:18 am
content: What is your normal or average room temperature ?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 12:57:44 pm
content: hello, these days it's 24º (75.2ºF), I measure the temperature in the BNC connectors of the oscilloscope, when they reach 29ºC (85ºF) the channels are perfect

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 05:55:13 pm
content: Somehow we should identify the culprit. Is it the scope or are the probes unstable. I doubt that the problem is the combination of both.Sorry if I missed that and repeat one test you're already done: Have you tried to run the scope for 30 minutes that it should be OK without the probes attached and then attach the cold probes? Does it come in un-compensated state or does it show a perfect waveform?Also you can try to warm up the probes before switching on the scope. Placing them in the sun for few minutes would bring them even above the normal operating temperature.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 05:58:43 pm
content: Quote from: Twoflower on April 30, 2018, 05:55:13 pmThats too troublesome, use wife/mom/GF's hairdryer, that should be enough to warm up the probes.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 06:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: Twoflower on April 30, 2018, 05:55:13 pmWould the probes warm up once the scope is switched on? They do not dissipate any significant electrical power, right? So I can't see how a warm-up effect in the probes would come about, and would rather suspect [edit: typo corrected] the scope.Nevertheless, it can't hurt to try with a different set of probes if you have access to one.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 07:12:27 pm
content: things that I have tried.1- probes of a tektronix oscilloscope of a friend. result you got the error.2- turn it on without the probes and after 15 minutes connect the probe, result, the error does not appear.3. turn on the device with probes x1, there is no error, change immediately to x10, you see the error.4- compare measurements with the tektronix once stabilized, result correctly measured

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 08:02:24 pm
content: So your test has definitely ruled out the probes.It was a simple test to just rule them out. The probes get warmer by the heat-transfer from the scope via the BNC. I'm aware that the passives should not get warm from themselves. Or you have a bigger problem than the compensation.I think it's a good time to review Dave' videos about the scope-probes and the one were he reverses a front-end of a scope (EEVblog #675; actually a DS1054Z, here's theschematicDave created). I'm not sure at which voltage/div setting the 'attenuator' is bypassed (you hear a faint 'click' sound). Can you see if this makes some difference if you're above/below the switching point of that relais? But it could also be impossible to do so because the range is too high too low. The D4000 switch between 2V/div and 5V/div.But that will only help to narrow down the root-cause. Fixing it will most likely require a modification which will most probably will cause problems if you need the warranty.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 08:03:59 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 30, 2018, 07:12:27 pmIs the scope fan working ?

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 09:01:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 30, 2018, 08:03:59 pmGood question. Scope could be overheating.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2018, 10:05:15 pm
content: if the fan works, the oscilloscope has 45 days, the fault is when it starts not running for minutes, at 10 minutes or so it works perfectly.

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 02:05:20 am
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on April 30, 2018, 10:05:15 pmI don't understand this statement.Is the fan working; yes or no?This is what I'm thinking:If the fan is not working, the scope will overheat, and some part inside the scope will change tolerance.If the probes are compensated when the scope is overheated, the trace will look good as long as the scope is hot.When the scope cools off, the part inside the scope will go back to the correct tolerance, and the trace will show the probes are uncompensated.As the scope heats up again (overheats) the trace will then become correctly compensated.This seems to describe your problem.So check to see if the fan is working.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 02:37:34 am
content: if the fan works correctly, it is the one that it brought from the factory, the equipment is new, but I live in Argentina and the round trip to the US costs almost the same as the oscilloscope. Before opening the team, I want to have an idea of what I have to look inside. Since neither tequipament, nor Chinese Rigol gave signs of life.

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 03:40:01 am
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 02:37:34 amI don't understand this statement either. There is a language barrier.You don't have to take the scope apart.Turn the scope on and listen for the fan. Do you hear the fan running? Do you feel the fan blowing air?Is the fan running, yes or no?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 12:04:05 pm
content: Adrian, if you want you can explain in Spanish and I will translate it to English

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:03:59 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 01, 2018, 12:04:05 pmCuando enciendo el osciloscopio después de muchas horas de inactividad, las sondas son desequilibradas, sondas de opción X10, en la configuración X1 comienza perfecto.1- las mediciones se realizan perfecto una vez estabilizado.2- temperatura ambiente promedio de mi espacio 24ºC.3- el ventilador funciona correctamente, expulsa aire. solo que es ruidoso.la otra información está en esta publicación, desde el principio.Mi opinión es que puede ser que la fuente de energía genere demasiado calor, ya que en los conectores del osciloscopio una vez que se estabiliza hay 30 ° c. y lo que realmente hace es desestabilizar los conectores, que en este caso debería haber poca temperatura. estoy pensando en destaparlo y hacerlo funcionar con la fuente de poder alejada para ver como influye.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 01:03:59 pmTRANSLATION:When I turn the scope on after many hours of inactivity, the probes (switched to X10) are uncompensated. If probes are in X1 mode, they work perfectly.1- Measurements are perfect once stabilized.2- Average room temperature is 24ºC3- The Fan is working. Blows air out of the scope but it is noisyOther information is in this thread (from the beginning).My opinion is that it can be the power supply generating too much heat, as the connectors (BNC?) are at 30ºC once stabilized and destabilizes the connectors, they should be cooler. I am thinking on removing the cover and try with the power supply far away to see how it influences the operation of the scope

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:22:06 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 01:03:59 pmI don't have the DS1054Z, but someone can verify if the Fan should be blowing air towards the PCB or the opposite? I think my Keysight 1000X's Fan blows air towards the PCB

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:26:23 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 01, 2018, 01:22:06 pmLooking at the front of the scope, the fan is mounted on the left-hand side. It blows air out of the scope on that side; the air inlet is on the right.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 01, 2018, 01:22:06 pmen el mio sopla hacia afuera del osciloscopio, ahora me gustaría entrar a la duda, habria que preguntar al que posea uno.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:51:02 pm
content: Weird question ...I know you used X1 and X10 vice versa during your normal use.Now, what if, turn on the scope, set to X10 , compensate and NEVER switch to X1 , continue use or observe as before, does problem still persist ?Again, never switch to X1, just stay at X10 only.PS : TK need help here, TIA

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 01:55:46 pm
content: from the beginning I compose them and use them in X10, but in some moments I do not want to wait for a few minutes then I use them in X1, but I always use X10, they are compensated in X10, what happens is that when the BNC inputs reach about 28ºC is compensated alone, or really the decompensas

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 02:07:32 pm
content: Lets wait for TK, it seems like you don't get it.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 02:25:53 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 01, 2018, 02:07:32 pmsince I received it,1- I lit it2- X10 configured probes3- I compensate the probes4- I used it for a few hours and turned it off5- the other day when I turn it on I see that they start decompensated but with the running of the minutes it is corrected.6- I get in touch with tequipamen and Rigol. I do not receive an answer.7. for convenience I start using X1, because there is no problem8- in fan works correctly. it expels air and is noisy9- the measurements are correct, compared to a tektronix.10- use other probes and you missed the error.11 - I do not buy more tequipament and never more a Rigol team, have no post sale serviceen español:desde que lo recibi,1- lo encendi2- sondas configuradas X103- Yo compense las sondas4- lo use por unas horas y lo apague5- al otro dia cuando lo enciendo veo que comienzan descompensadas pero con el correr de los minutos se corrige.6- yo me pongo en con tacto con tequipamen y Rigol. yo no recibo respuesta.7. por comodidad las empiezo a usar X1, porque ahi no se ve el problema8- en ventilador funciona correctamente. expulsa aire y es ruidoso9- las mediciones son correctas, comparado con un tektronix.10- use otras sondas y el error perciste.11- yo no compro mas a tequipament y nunca mas un equipo Rigol, no tienen servicio post venta

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 04:40:24 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 02:25:53 pmTranslation:1- I turned it on10- I used other probes and the problem persists11- They don't have post-sale (customer) serviceThe other translations are good enough

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 04:52:04 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 01:27:22 pmTranslation:Mine blows out of the oscilloscope. But to be sure, can someone with a DS1054z confirm?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 04:56:40 pm
content: Air is drawn in from the right, and is pushed out by the fan on the left.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 05:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 01, 2018, 04:56:40 pmok, same as mine, then it is well installed

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 05:07:17 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 01, 2018, 01:51:02 pmTranslación:Pregunta rara:Sé que normalmente usa las dos X1 y X10.Ya si enciende el osciloscopio, pone las sondas de opción x10, las compensa y NUNCA las cambia a la configuración X1. Sigue usandolo u observando como antes. ¿Todavía existe el problema?De nuevo, nunca cambia las sondas a la configuración X1, se quedan de opción x10 solamente.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 05:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: mbless on May 01, 2018, 04:40:24 pm1- I started it10- place the probes of the tektronix and in problem it is still there11 - once they sell you the product, they do not give you an adequate post sale service, if you have problems they do not solve it.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 05:46:50 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 01, 2018, 02:25:53 pmAll thru Google translate, hope its not confusing.(Todo a través de Google translate, espero que no sea confuso.)Understand you're angry with Rigol and Tequipment, but please, just answer YES or NO on this simple question.(Comprenda que está enojado con Rigol y Tequipment, pero responda SÍ o NO a esta simple pregunta.)Looking at above quote, and also your "other" replies since the beginning of this thread, it seems like the problem happened when you used/switched the probe into X1. Even you switched it back to X10 later.(Mirando la cita anterior, y también sus "otras" respuestas desde el comienzo de este hilo, parece que el problema ocurrió cuando usó / cambió la sonda en X1. Incluso tu lo cambiaste a X10 más tarde.)Now, the question ...(Ahora, la pregunta ...)If you used the scope with X10 and never switch to X1, the problem never happened,yes or no ?(Si utilizó el osciloscopio con X10 y nunca cambió a X1, el problema nunca ocurrió,¿sí o no?)Please .. just answer Yes or No.(Por favor ... solo responda Sí o No.)Sí, ya sabemos que odias a Rigol y Tequiment, y Rigol es malo porque su apoyo es malo. No necesita repetir esto una y otra vez, solo quiero ayudarlo con la discusión técnica.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 06:11:24 pm
content: NO, no no.When the US oscilloscope came to me, the factory X10 probes were already configured, I did not change them X1, when I saw the problem that was being raised when I turned on the equipment. I decided to try this option from X10 to X1.(cuando me llego el osciloscopio de USA, ya vino configuradas las sondas X10 de fabrica, yo no las cambie X1, cuando vi el problema que se pesentaba al encender el equipo.decidi probar es opcion de X10 a X1.)

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 06:20:05 pm
content: call tequipment and ask for RMA and return postage

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 07:00:05 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 01, 2018, 06:20:05 pmI told you, I got in touch with tequipament, they told me to get in touch with RIGOL, the people from Rigol told me that it was a matter of tequipament, besides sending it to the USA from Argentina round trip costs me $ s226. that they do not take care of that cost abroad. So I decided to ask both of them for an internal scheme of rigol 1054z, which stopped answering the mail. I just wanted to be told some idea of where to start looking for the fault, and if it was a failure of the PCB, they would send me an I replaced.In short, I understood that they wanted to tell me to fix them alone (here in Argentina we usually say "Fuck you for a fool", but I have already learned "No Tequipament, No RIGOL" and have a happy life.in spanishLe comento a usted, ya me puse en contacto con tequipament, me dijieron que me ponga en contacto con RIGOL, las parsona de Rigol me comentaron que era asunto de tequipament, ademas que el envio a USA desde Argentina ida y vuelta me cuesta u$s226. que ellos no se hacen cargo de ese costo al exterior. Asi que decidi pedir a ambos algun esquema interno del rigol 1054z, lo cual dejaron de contestar los mail.Solamente queria que me comentaran alguna idea de por donde empezar a buscar la falla, y si era falla del PCB, que me enviaran una yo la reemplazaba.Resumiendo,yo entendi que me quisieron decir que las arregle solo(aca en Argentina solemos decir "Jodete por tonto",pero ya aprendi "No Tequipament, No RIGOL" y tenga una viva feliz.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 07:31:21 pm
content: RMA = return merchandise authorizationask for return postage tooYou will ask to return the scope for a refund. it is defective.what consumer protections are in your country?Rigol expects the distributor to take care of a new defective shipment, that is what I would expect my distributor to do.It is more efficient for everyone that way.Rigol does not want to deal with individual customer. Distributor already has their hand in that, so they can finish what they started.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 07:49:43 pm
content: this mail is one of the few that answered me tequipmentBrian Amorim <techsupport@tequipment.net>Hello Emilio,Thank you for your order.We apologize about this inconvenience.In this regard I would normally advise that you contact Rigol directly as they would be able to advise of all the possible remedies to the scenario you are experiencing.Ive called Rigol and they unfortunately do not have anyone there that speaks Spanish so if you would like to call them in English their information can be observed below.503-828-9028this mail is the only one I answered RIGOLJessica.Xiao@rigol.comDear Francesquini Emilio A.,Please contact with the supplier Tequipment.Thank you .Best regards.Jessica Xiao***************************Rigol Technologies Inc.No.8 Ke Ling Road, Hi-tech Development Zone,Suzhou, China 215163Tel: +86-512-66706688 ext.11071Mobile: +86 135 8426 1457Skype: wenlan0112Website:www.rigol.comLike RIGOL on Facebook: fb.me/RIGOL.INTLin Argentina the one that sells these equipment, does not give technical support.-what consumer protections are in your country?Here if you bought abroad and you have some problems, they tell you that it is not their problem, that you solve it.in spanishen Argentina el que vende estos equipos, no da soporte tecnico.-what consumer protections are in your country?Aca si compraste en el exterior y tenes algun problemas, te dicen que no es problema de ellos, que lo soluciones tu.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 10:11:54 pm
content: Why don't you try sending an email to Rigol USA? They are the ones dealing with Tequipment and you might be able to get some solution.Porque no intentás enviar un correo a Rigol USA? Ellos son los que se encargan de la relación con Tequipment y por ahi te pueden solucionar el problema.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2018, 10:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 01, 2018, 10:11:54 pm'info-intl@rigol.com' ,and send to rigol usa, at the time, explaining my problem, send images published here, also request quote from the PCB that controls everything that the general control, I never received a response or received.in spanish'info-intl@rigol.com', ya envie a rigol usa, en su momento, explicando mi proble, envie imagenes aqui publicadas, tambien solicite cotizacion del PCB que controla todo lo que el control general, nunca me respundiern ni un recibido.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 12:20:22 am
content: Try info@rigol.comRigolna.com (Rigol USA) website says it is the USA contact email.If you want, someone can translate the email if you write it in Spanish. Also make reference to this forum thread so they are aware of the problem you are having, and explain them the shipping / export / re-import issue that you have from Argentina.The Rigol distributor in Argentina should provide tech and warranty support, and I am almost certain that this must be a standard distributorship agreement. How do they warranty the units they are selling? I am sure they are not re-exporting / re-importing the units to / from China because it is a very complex administrative process. Even if it is not in the standard agreement, Rigol can ask them as a favor to help a customer... that is most other test equipment manufacturers do. OWON ships the main boards / or any part that they consider is the culprit and email customers the self service instructions, to avoid sending the units back to China.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 01:09:27 am
content: Quote from: TK on May 02, 2018, 12:20:22 amThank you, I just sent you an email, also place a link to this site, I made reference to the two places that they passed me on their phone and that they sent me to USA.I see it difficult since I have sent more than 20 mails and nobody is interested, nor in offering to sell me a central PCB,in spanishGracias, acabo de enviarles un mail, ademas coloque un link a este sitio, he hice referencia a los dos lugares que en su momento me pasaron ellos por telefono y que me digieron que lo envia a USA.Lo veo dificil ya que he enviado mas de 20 mails y nadie se interesa, ni en ofrecerme de venderme una PCB central,

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 02:41:58 am
content: I decided to run a quick test on my DS1054Z to make sure it isn't effected. Here was my process:1. Let scope warm up for 30 min2. Compensate x10 probe3. Turn off scope and let it cool down for 3 hours4. Turn on scope and monitor compensation waveformThe back wall of the ground inside the BNC connector measured 24.5C before turning it on. After 30 minutes it stabilized to 34.9C (10C increase!); I only tested the waveform on channel 1 but the other 3 channels measured 34.9, 35.0 and 32.8C, respectively. I compensated my stock RP2200 probe in x10 mode. I then turned off the scope, waited 3 hours and then turned it back on. The probe was still properly compensated, so no problem here.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:43:45 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 01, 2018, 07:31:21 pmHis Rigol was bought across border, hence, considered as gray market merchandise.Usually, the product manufacturer will be lazy or hesitate to support this kind of problem as they don't like their product sold across border, and they have the obligation to maintain a good relationship with local distributor.Here, theauthorizedRigol distributors in OP's country, they got two actually ->www.hertig.com.arwww.temtecsa.com.arThe OP is fully aware of the risk, buying a gray market stuff is ALWAYS troublesome if there is a problem, so basically he is facing the risk now with the decision he made by purchased it at Tequipment.Simple question, if you were Rigol, would you sacrifice your relationship with local distributors for only one or two naughty customers ? Or even better, if you were Tequipment, will you just wash hand, pass and throw (ping-pong) this problem back to Rigol ? Think again ..Su Rigol fue comprado a través de la frontera, por lo tanto, considerado como mercancía del mercado gris.Por lo general, el fabricante del producto será flojo o dudará en apoyar este tipo de problema ya que no les gusta que su producto se venda al otro lado de la frontera, y tienen la obligación de mantener una buena relación con el distribuidor local.Aquí, los distribuidores autorizados de Rigol en el país de OP, obtuvieron dos en realidad ->www.hertig.com.arwww.temtecsa.com.arEl OP es plenamente consciente del riesgo, comprar un producto del mercado gris SIEMPRE es problemático si hay un problema, por lo que básicamente enfrenta el riesgo ahora con la decisión que tomó al comprarlo en Tequipment.Pregunta simple, si usted fuera Rigol, ¿sacrificaría su relación con los distribuidores locales por solo uno o dos clientes traviesos? O mejor aún, si fueras Tequipment, ¿solo te lavarás la mano, pasarás y arrojarás (ping-pong) este problema a Rigol? Piensa otra vez ..

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 11:35:53 am
content: Gray market or not, it is a FAULTY DS1054Z unit, so If you are Rigol, would you deal with bad press or ship a new main board to this customer that his only fault is that He lives far far away in Argentina? Tequipment is a US distributor and they sold and shipped this unit to Argentina, so they probably violated Rigol Distributorship agreement... They should jump up and solve this problem.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 12:17:47 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 02, 2018, 11:35:53 amYou don't understand the nature of this problem, as the devil is in the details.Either Rigol HQ or Tequipment, will be happily to replace (read: NOT fixing) the scope, as long he is willing to PAY the shipping charge from Argentina to US ... AND ... US back to Argentina, or back and forth from Argentina to Rigol in China, not a big deal.How hard is that to understand this ?Its like saying that you bought a new Mercedes Benz car in Canada, cheap, half the price, and say an imaginary condition you can drive across US border without being charge even a single cent back home, nice eh ? If your car breaks that is still under warranty period, are you saying that the Mercedes Benz as company and their America's distributor is responsible to fix your car without any charge at all "in US" as like those who sold legally thru local distributor ?Also you need to be "fully" understand that "LOCAL" distributor exist everywhere in the world, for a reason.For those who still don't understand, just fyi, distributor is not a non profit organization, people who work there need to feed their family too, and definitely will not do the support for FREE to buyer that didn't buy stuff from them, its not too hard to understand what is this all about.No entiendes la naturaleza de este problema, como el diablo está en los detalles.Ya sea Rigol HQ o Tequipment, con mucho gusto reemplazará (lea: NO arregla) el alcance, siempre que esté dispuesto a PAGAR el costo de envío de Argentina a los EE. UU ... Y ... a los EE. UU. De regreso a Argentina, o de ida y vuelta de Argentina a Rigol en China, no es un gran problema.¿Qué tan difícil es eso para entender esto? : - //Es como decir que compraste un auto Mercedes Benz nuevo en Canadá, a mitad de precio, y dices una condición imaginaria que puedes conducir a través de la frontera de EE. UU. Sin cobrar ni un solo centavo en casa, ¿eh? Si su auto se rompe y todavía está en período de garantía, ¿está diciendo que el Mercedes Benz como compañía y su distribuidor en los Estados Unidos es responsable de reparar su auto sin ningún cargo "en los Estados Unidos" como aquellos que vendieron legalmente a través de un distribuidor local?También necesita estar "completamente" entendido que el distribuidor "LOCAL" existe en todas partes del mundo, por alguna razón.Para aquellos que todavía no entienden, solo fyi, el distribuidor no es una organización sin fines de lucro, las personas que trabajan allí también necesitan alimentar a su familia, y definitivamente no harán el soporte GRATUITO al comprador que no les compró nada. , no es muy difícil entender de qué se trata todo esto.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 01:07:18 pm
content: BravoV, I understand what you say, but I told you something before buying the rigol ds1054z to tequipment I four like a long chat until I cleared my doubts. And one thing that I took into account was the post-sale service abroad, the cost of an eventual use of guarantee knew it, but I never thought that if you have a problem like mine, and more than that I put the good will to tell you both tequipment and Rigol, because they both sent the same mail, asking for help, or they had to sell me a PCB that I ran with the expenses and the responsibility to open and change the PCB, since it will be cheaper What to send, change and not have the bad luck that comes with another failure.I commented here in Argentina, so you know the warranty services, they are not the best, when they asked me they answered that I would claim the one who sold it to me, besides they were not importing that model that what I could do was locate the problem, source of power, or the central PCB, since there is no more that can be changed, and request if they send me one with or without charge, and they told me so "YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE THAT IT IS A CHINESE PRODUCT", then choose to request the PCB, they told me to look under the oscilloscope if I had the security band and to my surprise it was like that.I do not want to think they sold me a RIGOL DS1054Z -B (open box)and this is the last mail from TEQUIPMENT, that I received.Emilio,I have found your order No. A339740 in our system.Unfortunately, we do not offer the central plate of the scope separately as a replacement part.We can help you with the purchase of a new scope. This is also past the return period of 30 days.Please let us know if we can help you with that.Thank You,Dawn MaxwellTEquipment.NETAn Interworld Highway, LLC Company205 Westwood AveLong Branch, NJ 07740Phone: 1 (877) 571-7901 | 1 (732) 222-7077Fax: 1 (732) 222-7088So if you sell a lot of equipment, you should have a proper after-sales service, as I read another company to send some capacitors that were missing in the assembly I think it was Siglent, with the difference that I did not ask for it.in spanishBravoV, yo entiendo lo que vos decis, pero te comento algo yo antes de comprar el rigol ds1054z a tequipment tuve como cuatro largo chat hasta que despeje mis dudas. Y una cosa que tuve en cuenta era el servicio de post venta al exterior, el costo de un eventual uso de garantia lo sabia, pero nunca pense que si uno tiene un problema como el mio, y mas que pongo la buena voluntad de decirles a ambos tequipment y a Rigol, porque a ambos les enviava los mismo mail, solicitando ayuda, o que tuvieran a bien de venderme una PCB que yo corria con los gastos y la responsabilidad de abrir y cambiar la PCB, ya que me va a salir mas economico que enviar, cambiar y no tener la mala suerte de que venga con otra falla.Te comento aca en Argentina, para que sepas los servicios de garantia, no son de lo mejor, cuando consulte me respondieron que reclamara al que me lo vendio, ademas no estaban importando ese modelo que lo que podia hacer era localizar el problema, fuente de poder, o la PCB central, ya que no hay mas que se pueda cambiar, y solicitar si me enviavan una con o sin cargo, y me dijieron asi "TENES QUE TENER EN CUENTA QUE ES UN PRODUCTO CHINO" , entonce opte por solicitar el PCB, me dijieron que me fije debajo del osciloscopio si traia la banda de seguridad y para mi sorpresa estaba asi.http://subirimagen.me/uploads/20180502075748.jpgno quiero pensar que me vendieron un RIGOL DS1054Z -B (caja abierta)y este es el ultimo mail de TEQUIPMENT , que recibi.Emilio,I have found your order No. A339740 in our system.Unfortunately, we do not offer the central plate of the scope separately as a replacement part.We can help you with the purchase of a new scope. This is also past the return period of 30 days.Please let us know if we can help you with that.Thank You,Dawn MaxwellTEquipment.NETAn Interworld Highway, LLC Company205 Westwood AveLong Branch, NJ 07740Phone: 1 (877) 571-7901 | 1 (732) 222-7077Fax: 1 (732) 222-7088Entonces si vende muchos equipos, deberian tener un servicio de post venta acorde, como lei que hizo otra empresa de enviar unos capacitores que faltaron en el el ensamble creo que fue Siglent, con la diferencia que yo no lo pedi que me lo regalen.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 02:38:36 pm
content: fail of my Rigol1054zhttps://youtu.be/yEiK1yS9LlM

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 03:07:45 pm
content: your video is blocked due to copyright claim. did you have a radio playong music in the background?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 03:16:10 pm
content: No manufacturer nor distributor will send you the main board ("central plate" ?) for you to fix it yourself, period.So stop dreaming.Just ask Keysight, Tektronix, Siglent and etc, none will allow you to do that, so its not only Rigol.You must send back the whole oscilloscope back to Tequipment or Rigol, which is we already know that is not possible as the shipping price it self maybe more than the price of the oscilloscope.Just want you to realize that your rant about Rigol & Tequipment is pointless, it will happened exactly the same again if you buy Keysight, Tektronix or Siglent across border.We have few Siglent distributors here in this forum, just ask them "publicly" not in private message, if the product is broken when bought cross border, will they send you the main board for you to fix it your self ? I don't think so.¿Ningún fabricante ni distribuidor le enviará la placa principal ("central plate"?) Para que la solucione usted mismo, punto.Así que deja de soñar.Solo pregúntale a Keysight, Tektronix, Siglent y etc., ninguno te permitirá hacer eso, así que no es solo Rigol.Debe devolver todo el osciloscopio a Tequipment o Rigol, que ya sabemos que no es posible, ya que el precio de envío puede ser superior al precio del osciloscopio.Solo quiero que se dé cuenta de que su diatriba sobre Rigol & Tequipment no tiene sentido, volverá a suceder exactamente lo mismo si compra Keysight, Tektronix o Siglent al otro lado de la frontera.Tenemos pocos distribuidores de Siglent aquí en este foro, solo pregúnteles "públicamente" no en un mensaje privado, si el producto se rompe cuando se compra a través de la frontera, ¿le enviarán el tablero principal para que lo arregle usted mismo? No lo creo.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 03:53:45 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 03:16:10 pmBravoV,1st I think you do not read anything look what I answer Tequipmant. "We can help you with the purchase of a new scope"2nd if they do not send a PCB, at least they say it, do not turn around asking for images and explanations of the problem and give no idea of what it can be.3rd when you sell a product and ensure that you have a technical support, at least respect the commitment, and not once you sent the product instead of helping complicas.4th of the other brands I do not speak, but if I'm not mistaken, Siglent lacked a capacitor to some equipment, according to this linkhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1348938/#msg1348938and 5º if you are not going to contribute ideas of possible failure or how to look for it, and a problem that can make you leave it like this, then do not think about things that are not relevant.in spanishBravoV,1º me parece que vos no lees nada fijate lo que me contesto Tequipmant. "podemos ayurdarlo con la compra de un nuevo alcanze"2º si no envian una PCB, por lo menos que lo digan, no que den vuelta pidiendome imagenes y explicaciones del problema y no dan ninguna idea de lo que puede ser.3º cuando vendes un productos y aseguras que tenes un soporte tecnico, por lo menos respeta el compromiso, y no una vez que enviaste el producto en vez de ayudar complicas.4º de las otras marcas no hablo, pero si no me equivoco, Siglent le falto un capacitor a unos equipos, segun este linkhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1348938/#msg1348938y 5º si no vas aportar ideas de posible falla o como buscarla, y problema que puede tarer el dejarlo como esta, entonces no opines cosas que no vienen al caso.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 03:55:42 pm
content: I do not own that scope, so I assume the compensation capacitor(s) is in the BNC socket part of the probe.The 1x range does not use the compensation capacitor(s) (it is used by 10x range only).The compensation capacitor(s) is a crap and changes with temperature. You showed the temp changed +10C at the BNC connector thus the value of the compensation capacitor(s) too.The fact 1x has no such issue supports my hypothesis his oscilloscope (the box) is OK.His probes use a crappy compensation capacitor(s).Try this:1. switch the oscilloscope on2. plug the probes into the connectors, 10x range3. wait 1hour4. compensate the probes, such you see the nice picture5. unplug the probes from the oscilloscope and wait 1hour, do NOT switch the oscilloscope off6. after 1hour plug the probes (still in 10x range) into the bnc connectors7. look at the picture - you will see decompensated probes, I bet8. wait 10 minutes - you will see compensated probes.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:05:58 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 03:53:45 pmYes, I will stop, as I give up too, good luck on your quest.Sí, me detendré, ya que también me rindo, buena suerte en tu búsqueda.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 04:05:58 pmThanks for your opinion and appreciations of the problem.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:29:11 pm
content: imo5. unplug the probes from the oscilloscope and wait 1hour, do NOT switch the oscilloscope offIf I disconnect them and connect them after an hour, the computer continues fine, the error occurs if I turn off the computer for an hour or more.it is when the equipment cools, that it happens, also in different measures it happens in the four channels.in spanishSi las desconecto y las conectos despues de una hora, el equipo sigue bien, el error se produce si apago el equipo por una hora o mas.es cuando se enfia el equipo, que ocurre, ademas en distintas medidas ocurre en los cuatro canales.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:31:18 pm
content: One more idea which, from what I have read in the thread, has not been explored yet. Quite unlikely in my opinion, but in the spirit of systematic troubleshooting it may be worth checking:I assume that all your compensation tests were done using the internal reference signal (1 kHz square wave) of the scope.Is it possible that the probes and input stages of the scope are doing just fine, and that the drift problem is in the reference signal instead?Not too likely, but this would explain why all four input stages are affected in similar ways. But if you have an external signal generator, or a second oscilloscope, it's a quick test measurement to rule this out. You could also use a computer sound card output to generate a 1 kHz square wave.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:40:00 pm
content: The compensation is about edges only, thus the rise and fall times of the 1kHz has to drift away.. Less likely I think..@Adrian: do compensate the probes, do NOT switch the Rigol off, and put the probes into the refrigerator (freezer) for 10 minutes. Then plug the cold probes back into the Rigol.Tried it with 1x and 10x setting.What do you see?QuoteLet us use here in this discussion words "probes" and "Rigol" for clarity.So when Rigol cools, you loose the compensation?Does it mean your probes, cool or warm, when connected to a warm Rigol always show good compensation?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 04:54:41 pm
content: I did a measurement test using a RIGOL dg1022u, I do not remember if that was exactly the model, it is owned by a friend. really excellent results X1, X10 one compensated the probes (4).My friend owns a teltronix, so we also compared the measurements with the tek. They were good, it makes me happy.I have used their TEK in few occasions in my projects, the RIGOL behaved in the same way. it makes me happy.We measured the square signal output of 1 kHz from the rigol with the probes of the tek and the rigol (noisier) but for the price ... I'm happyprobe the probes of the tek, in the rigol under the same parameters, result: the defect continues. I get angry.I still do not uncover it, until I know what I'm looking for and where I should look for it.in spanishHice una prueba de medicion usando un RIGOL dg1022u, no recuerdo si era ese exactamente el modelo, es propiedad de un amigo. realmente excelente los resultados X1, X10 una ves compensada las sondas (4).Mi amigo es propietario de un teltronix, asi que tambien comparamos las medidas con el tek. fueron buenas, me pone contento.He usado en pocas ocaciones su TEK en mis proyectos,el RIGOL se comporto de la misma manera. me pone contento.medimos la salida de señal cuadrada de 1 kHz del rigol con las sondas del tek y del rigol (mas ruidosa) pero por el precio... me dejo contentoprobe las sondas del tek, en el rigol bajo los mismos parametros, resultado: continua el defecto. me enojo.todavia no lo destape, hasta saber que busco y donde lo debo buscar.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:03:12 pm
content: Ok, you compensated the TEK probes when Rigol was warm.When you use TEK probes with Rigol, you see bad compensation when Rigol is cold.After 10 minutes, when Rigol warms up, the TEK probes show good compensation.Correct?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: imo on May 02, 2018, 04:40:00 pmYes, the 1 kHz signal would have to develop overshoots or slow rise times. I agree that it's not so likely, and included that disclaimer above. But worth ruling out, to make sure we are not barking up the wrong tree.Hmm, come to think of it: If the 1kHz signal were messed up, one would expect to observe that at the 1x probe setting too. That's not the case -- so forget about my earlier suggestion.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: imo on May 02, 2018, 05:03:12 pmif imo, they behave the same as the rigol probes, when I use them in the ds1054z, the BNC connectors of the rigol when they reach more or less at 29ºC (84ºF) are well compensated.in spanishsi imo, se comportan igual que las sondas del rigol, cuando las uso en el ds1054z, los conectores BNC del rigol cuando llegan mas o menos a los 29ºC (84ºF) quedan bien compesadas.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:24:13 pm
content: these are the current temperatures.ambient temperature at this time 23ºC (73, ºF)at the ventilator air outlet 29ºC (84ºF)in bnc connectors without probes connected 32ºC (89,6ºF)in spanishestas son las temperaturas actuales.temperatura ambiente en este momento 23ºC (73,ºF)en la salida de aire ventilador 29ºC (84ºF)en los conectores bnc sin sondas conectadas 32ºC (89,6ºF)

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:24:44 pm
content: This DaveJ schematics of the Rigol's front end shows the capacitors under doubt.Based on the info above, imho, Rigol used a capacitor(s) with a higher temperature coef as allowed in the schematics below..PS: I would rule out the temperature drifts in the related analog circuitry (opamps/dac/adc, operational points of transistors, etc) as the issues Adrian shows are only signal edge related (AC stuff).He is not indicating the 1kHz ref signal moves up/down or its amplitude is higher/lower.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:26:39 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 03:16:10 pmYou are completely wrong, I received main boards from OWON 2-3 years ago with a video on how to open the scope and make the repair myself. It is very cost efficient for manufacturers to do it.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: imo on May 02, 2018, 05:24:44 pmyes, the reference square signal, does not vary, remains stable.in spanishsi, la señal de cuadrada de referencia, no varia se mantiene estable.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:43:22 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 02, 2018, 05:26:39 pmThank you for giving me the reason to my request both to rigol and to tequipment that is in my opinion the one that would have to intermediate with rigol, since it has sold more than 1000 rigol ds1054z, according to their statistics and have more than 500 stock.there are companies and others are business projects (rigol). The sad thing is that I fell for a bad publicity made by certain people that is not worth mentioning.Returning to the subject, the use with that failure, in time could become a disaster?in spanishgracias por darme la razon a mi pedido tanto a rigol como a tequipment que es a mi entender la que tendria que intermediar con rigol, ya que le lleva vendido mas de 1000 equipos rigol ds1054z, segun sus estadisticas y tienen stock de mas 500.hay empresa y otras son proyectos de empresas (rigol). Lo triste es que cai por una mala publicidad hecha por ciertas personas que no vale la pena nombrar.Volviendo al tema, el uso con esa falla, en el tiempo podria convertirse en un desastre?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:55:22 pm
content: I am starting to doubt in with what I wrote above.What is the signal path in above schematics with 1x and 10x setting?I think the 1x goes via the attenuation network (see the schematics above), 10x goes straight.Am I right??If yes, then the issue is not in the above circuitry (1x works fine, Adrian wrote).Somebody has to doublecheckAfter watching Dave's video - the attenuator (with the capacitors under doubt) seems to be used with 10x setting too.

author: mbless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 05:57:58 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 05:43:22 pmI don't think so. It's just that if there is a large temperature coefficient to the components, it leaves a large range of variability to over/under-compensated signal.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 06:04:32 pm
content: RIGOL people are informed, also pass the link to this topic, depend on them if they want to help. Tequipment already showed that only the dollars are interensan, that I see it well, each one takes care of his hen housein spanishla gente de RIGOL esta informada, ademas le pase el link de este tema, dependen de ellos si quieren ayudar. Tequipment ya demostro que solo interensan los dolares, que lo veo bien, cada uno cuida su gallinero

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 06:47:59 pm
content: The attenuator network (with the capacitors in Q) is used for 500mV..10V/div ranges people say.@Adrian - is it possible to check your issue when you set the vertical range (while watching the calibration signal quality) outside that range?For example:1. 10x Probes (Rigol or TEK) compensated when Rigol is warm2. with cold Rigol watch the signal below in an available range below 500mV/div or above 10V/divIf the signal with cold Rigol will be compensated properly, than the issue comes from the attenuator network (see the schematics above).

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: imo on May 02, 2018, 06:47:59 pmabove 10v decreases, almost imperceptible, below 500mv decompensation increases.in spanishpor encima de los 10v disminuye, casi impersectible, por debajo de 500mv aumenta la descompensacion.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:40:02 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 05:43:22 pmI'm not sure of what bad publicity you are claiming victim to, but Tequipment likely would have served you the same as they would a local. The return policy I believe was available to you, in time. I too would have to pay return shipping for service in this case.So now you are done with Rigol and attempting warranty service?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:45:19 pm
content: There is one thing that I forget to document.When I turn on the equipment with the X10 probes, after a few hours, these are decompensated.but if I move the key from X10 to 1, the defect is automatically corrected, without specifying to the oscilloscope that I have changed the key of the probe. CH1> Probe> X1.Does it automatically detect the change?in spanishhay una cosa que me olvide de documentar.cuando enciendo el equipo con las sondas X10, despues de unas horas, estas se muestran descompensadas.pero si muevo la tecla de X10 a 1, automaticamente se corrige el defecto, sin especificarle al osciloscopio de que he cambiado la tecla de la sonda. CH1>Probe>X1.¿este detecta automaticmente el cambio?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:54:49 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 07:45:19 pmNow I am really confused... The X10 probes start uncompensated, then 10 minutes later they get compensated and work correctly, but then after few hours they get uncompensated again??

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 07:26:22 pmI would try hard to see if other V/div settings are affected.It helps if you haven't got enough amplitude on the display to increase the timebase to obtain a longer displayed period and therefore see the uncompensation better. Then you can adjust at 2 and possibly 5 V/div to examine if the fault is exhibited at those settings.I also wonder if this PCB has had factory rework and not cleaned properly afterwards.Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 07:45:19 pmProbe compensation can only be performed on 10x + probes. (10, 100, 1000......)

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 07:57:24 pm
content: The scope does not recognize the mode of the probe.By the way here's Daves explanation of the 1x probes including also the 10x probes:

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 02, 2018, 05:26:39 pmSure, I believe you, its just that must be on a special occasion, don't know, maybe that particular model was still on full attention from the crowd at that time.Just don't believe its the standard policy, and norm in supporting their product, case by case I guess.C'mon, it doesn't make any sense if the manufacturer is willingly to send out "for free" the main board when everytime someone just need to say ... "Hey Owon, your product is broken, because I say so, now send me the replacement board, oh, I know how to use screw driver, don't worry."

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:31:39 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on May 02, 2018, 07:40:02 pmI acquired it on 02/15/2018 and I received it on 03/28/2018 in my house, they told me the 30 days from the 15/02, so they say that the claim of the team is not valid, that does not leave me conformed because the 30 days were completed on 04/28/2018.They decided that I was in contact with Rigol, which I did, send images, I attached this link to this information, request that they sell me a central pcb to make the change, I do not receive any response. it costs me cheaper to buy a secure pcb plate, than to send the equipment back and forth u $ s226.Yesterday I returned to send a mail to Rigol. Tequipment does not answer me.in spanishyo lo adquiri el 15/02/2018 y lo recibi el 28/03/2018 en mi casa, ellos me contarorn los 30 dias desde el 15/02, por eso dicen que no es valido el reclamo del equipo, eso no me dejo conforme porque los 30 dias se cumpleron el 28/04/2018.Medijeron que me onga en contacto con Rigol, lo cual hice, envie imagenes, adheri este link dinde esta completa la informacion, solicite que me vendan una pcb central para realizar el cambio, no recibo respuesta alguna. me cuesta mas barato comprar una placa pcb seguro, que enviar el equipo ida y vuelta u$s226.Ayer volvi a reeviar el un mail a Rigol. Tequipment no me responde.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 02, 2018, 07:54:49 pmcorrect when I turn off the computer for a few hours and it cools.in spanishcorrecto cuando apago el equipo durante unas horas y este se enfria.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:38:43 pm
content: Quote from: Twoflower on May 02, 2018, 07:57:24 pmthanks is one of the quvi videos when it detects the problemin spanishgracias es uno de los videos quvi cuando detecte el problema

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:39:38 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 08:29:40 pmI at no time request sending the pcb at no cost,- already paid the central PCB.- I took care of shipping costs.in spanishyo en ningun momento solicite envio de la pcb sin costo alguno,- ya abonaba la PCB central.- yo me hacia cargo de los costos de envio.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:43:59 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 08:31:39 pmRead here, your own quote ...Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 01:07:18 pmThat 30 days is not warranty period, its the "RETURN" period.If you send back the oscilloscope in whole, "AND" paid in advance the shipping back fee, they will happily to replace with the new one for you.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 08:39:38 pmHow much did you pay ?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 08:51:17 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 08:43:59 pmMaybe - have Tequipment ever said so?I don't think they would have to do that, since the scope is meeting all its specifications.Remember that 30 minutes warm-up time are specified in the user manual.It is quite possible that Tequipment would still replace the scope (if they don't have to swallow the shipping costs). But I do not think they would be legally obliged to do so; it would be goodwill.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 02, 2018, 08:51:17 pmOf course, provided its truly broken.The big problem is, don't know anyone aware, may be its just me, until this 134th reply, we still can not get a clear and definite picture of what is the problem "actually" ? As all replies are so confusing with mixed bags of unclear direction and sometimes mixed up with ranting.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 09:00:50 pmThis DSO does indeed have a problem, see his vid:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rigol-ds1054z-109465/msg1512256/#msg1512256

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:13:19 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 02, 2018, 08:43:59 pmWhen I got in touch they did not talk about changing equipment, they told me to analyze the problem, so I sent the oscilloscope two things can happen1- they tell me they can not replace it with X reasons.2 - I happen to have a coma I read that it usually happens that they send another and has another flawplease bravo, instead of looking for a needle in a haystack, stand on the client's side and how things complicate. and see what it says to help me with the purchase of other equipment and I read wrong.in spanishcuando yo me puse en contacto no hablaron de cambio de equipo, me hablaron de analizar el problema, asi que envio el osciloscopio pueden ocurrir dos cosas1- que me digan que no me lo pueden reemplazar por X motivos.2- que me suceda coma he leido que suele pasar que envian otro y tiene otra fallapor favor bravoV, en ves de estar buscando una aguja en un pajar, ponete del lado del cliente y como complican las cosas. y fijate que dice que me ayudaran con la compra de otro equipo y yo leo mal.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 02, 2018, 09:09:08 pmthank you for watching the video, that same rigol and tequipment have them and I sent them by mail and today I sent them this link for case they have not received the maiol for being very heavy.and enough to defend TEQUIPMENT AND RIGOL, are people who only trade, or I am the first to happen that instead of solving a problem we complicate it more, until we feel guilty of having bothered them.in spanishgracias por ver el video, ese mismo lo tienen rigol y tequipment ya que les envie por mail y hoy les hice llegar este link por caso que no hayan recibido el maiol por ser muy pesado.y basta de defender a TEQUIPMENT Y RIGOL, es gente que solo comercian, o soy el primero que le sucede que en vez que no solucionen un problema nos la complican mas, hasta que nos sentimos culpales de haberlos molestados.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 02, 2018, 09:09:08 pmAh, having watched the video, now I see the problem:The scope is meant to be operated horizontally! Placing it upright, on its side, may block the air intake!Seriously though: No doubt, the scope shows a significantly stronger drift of the probe compensation than what istypicalin the DS1000Z series (or other scopes). What I meant was that it still meets allspecifiedproperties. Hence, Rigol or their dealers are probably not obliged to accept a warranty return, but may well do so under goodwill.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 02, 2018, 09:26:22 pmGood will, do not make me laugh, it's the least I have, I've seen in the post that you found me with the deployment of a welding station, I like to get the images to whoever buys it, at the time I got an email with the replenishment, that's good will. You have to bother about this issue published on eevblog, no sir, they are busy selling, not in trouble, they have not looked and the emails with images and videos that they send to both.in spanishBuena voluntad, no me hagas reir, es lo que menos tienen, yo comente enun post que tuve problema con el display de una estacion de soldadura, les hize llegar las imagenes a quien se la compre, al tiempo me llego un correo con el reepleza, eso es buena voluntad. Usted cree que que tanto RIGOL o Tequipment se van a molestar en ver este tema publicado en eevblog, no señor, estan ocupados en vender no en solucionar, no habran mirado ni los mail con imagenes y video que le envie a ambos.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 09:13:19 pmQuote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 09:20:24 pmThen you must provide better analysis of the problem.You need show how this problem is not only with the probe Cal output and also is with other 'fast' square wave inputsofother amplitudes. You need to get access to other wave sources and do videos of them too.1KHz is fine but at lower and higher amplitudes to fully/properly demonstrate there is a problem with the DSO.Looking ahead,IFRigol or TE acknowledge there is a problem, either of them can organize a replacement mainboardIFthey are confident you can replace it without damaging the DSO or the new mainboard. (Static damage)If they are not satisfied you can do the replacement then the DSOmustbe given to their/your local distributor for authorized repair center replacement of the mainboard and so keep the warranty.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 02, 2018, 09:36:43 pmWhat you ask is a joke, no, it's like a patient comes to a hospital and tells a doctor everything that hurts, and what is the problem of the disease and how to cure it.send images, send video, explain how I could, since I am not a tenian or engineer to have the right words, I have a very poor English, from April 3, 2018 to only four days of having it in my possession, until 26 April try to show at least interest in the problem, just in case you do not want a barbecue, and the only thing that responds is, contact RIGOL Tel: + 86-512-66706688 ext.11071 and the Chinese answer me to get in touch with Tequipment that they sold me the oscilloscope, that they saw me as a fool who passed the problem. Please, let's talk seriously, if the recipients are technicians, they will realize that it really is a problem, the equipment is not valvular, so you have to wait to use it.of these I have several receivedej_vasko@rigol.comHello,I have forwarded your e-mail to our technical support staff and they will contact you shortly. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.Thanks,E.J. VaskoRIGOL Tech. Shipping Dept.in espanisheso que pedis es un chiste, no, es como que un paciente llege a un hospital y le diga a medico todo lo que le duele, y cual es el problema de la dolencia y como curarla.envie imagenes, envie video, explique como pude, ya que no soy un tenico ni ingeniero para tener las palabras adecuadas, tengo un ingles muy pobre, desde el 3 de abril de 2018 a solo cuatro dias de tenerlo en mi poder, hasta el 26 de abril trate de que por lo menos mostraran interes en el problema, por las dudas no sera que desean tambien una parrillada de agasajo, y lo unico que responden es, pongase en contacto con RIGOL Tel:+86-512-66706688 ext.11071 y los chinos me contestan que me ponga en contacto con Tequipment que ellos me vendieron el osciloscopio, que me vieron cara de tonto que se pasan el problema. Por favor hablemos en serio, si los que reciben son tecnicos, se daran cuenta de que realmente es un problema, el equipo no es valvular para que haya que esperar para usarlo.de estos tengo varios recibidoej_vasko@rigol.comHello,I have forwarded your e-mail to our technical support staff and they will contact you shortly. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.Thanks,E.J. VaskoRIGOL Tech. Shipping Dept.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 09:59:25 pm
content: My comments are no joke, they are part of proper diagnosis of the issue.If this problem is rare the Rigol technicians may not have seen it before and therefore your distance from them is the problem that requires good basic analysis to help them to offer you a solution.Great it seems that you are getting some recognition from Rigol and I hope they can offer a solution for you.Wishing you a speedy solution.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 10:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 02, 2018, 09:59:25 pmGreat it seems that you are getting some recognition from Rigol and I hope they can offer a solution for you.Wishing you a speedy solution.That email is from the first days of April, so I commented that they always send the same mail, they never really cared about the team's problem, I apologize if I expressed myself badly.in spanishese mail es del los primeros dias de abril, por eso comento que siempre mandan el mismo mail, nunca se interesaron realmente por el problema del equipo, disculpame si me exprese mal.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2018, 10:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 02, 2018, 09:34:33 pmAdrian, your English is getting worse... it looks a lot like Spanish

author: mstck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 01:58:08 am
content: Hi AdrianI just stumbled on this thread and thought I would let you know that I experienced this identical problem with the Rigol I purchased from Tequipment in September last year. I even sought advice from the members in this forum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ds1054z-noob-question/msg1295238/#msg1295238I finally resolved to allow the scope to warm up for a few minutes before using it (which they say is good practice). I recognize that this is not necessarily an acceptable solution to the problem but it was the best I could do at the time. I really wanted the other members to know that at least one other person has experienced this problem.A month or so ago I turned on the scope to use it and lo and behold, the problem had vanished. The probe compensation had not changed. I have done nothing to the scope to address the problem since I did no know where to start. I just turned it on a few moments ago, and it's still functioning as it should, no change in compensation setting after an extended period being off.Maybe we got units from the same batch and your problem will disappear after a while. I hope so.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 02:26:58 am
content: Quote from: mstck on May 03, 2018, 01:58:08 amThanks for your inputit may be that I have the same luck. It will be that these Chinese fix it by wifi

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 03:03:16 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on May 02, 2018, 09:26:22 pmSaying the DSO is within specifications is a cheap cop out. The thing is obviously faulty and there's no telling whether more problems will surface. Of course, when those do appear they won't take responsibility.It seems Tequipment isn't a company you want to be dealing with.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 05:44:11 am
content: QuoteThe bimetallic relay (switching the compensation capacitors on/off) has broken in your box@Adrian: does the compensation improves (within those 10minutes) abruptly, or it is a continual process?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 10:54:41 am
content: Quote from: imo on May 03, 2018, 05:44:11 amHello Imo, if you see the video you will realize that it is progressive, and is slowly accommodating.in spanishHola Imo, si ves el video te vas a dar cuenta que es progresivo, e va acomodando lentamente.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2018, 01:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 03, 2018, 03:03:16 amthe problem that when the winter comes, the wait will be greater so that it compensates.but unfortunately a solution I do not have, just that rigol accept to sell me a central pcb, I thought that as tequipment has bought so many rigol equipment, I would advise how to correctly request a PCB, but then I realized that I had already paid the oscilloscope.in spanishel problema que cuando llegue el invierno segura la espera va a ser mayor para que compense.pero desgraciadamente una solucion no tengo, solo que rigol aceptara venderme una pcb central, yo pense que como tequipment le ha comprado tantos equipos a rigol, me aconsejaria como hacer correctamente la solicitud de una PCB, pero luego me di cuenta que ya les habia abonado el osciloscopio.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 04:35:10 pm
content: Hello, good afternoon, I just wanted to comment that rigol china contacted via email, from the technical support, requesting me images, if possible a video and the corresponding serial number, to which I accessed, Photos, video, serial number and purchase invoice and a brief explanation of the tests performed.This is the video that brings youhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU8Q-E0Mpgo&t=64s.Today I received a couple of images and a pdf to disarm the equipment, and remove the possible moisture from the inputs of the BNC, it is like to start eliminating possible causes, hopefully that is the problem, and not defective components.I will keep you informed of how Rigol's health progresses.in spanishHola, buenas tardes, solo queria comentar que rigol china se puso en contacto via mail, desde el soporte tecnico, solicitandome imagenes, si era posible un video y el correspondiente numero de serie, a lo cual accedi, Fotos, video, numero de serie y factura de compra y una breve explicacion de las pruebas realizadas.este es el video que les acerquehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU8Q-E0Mpgo&t=64s.Hoy recibi un par de imagenes y un pdf para desarmar el equipo, y quitar la posible humedad de las entradas de los BNC, es como para empezar a eliminar posibles causas, esperemos que sea eso el problema, y no componentes defectuosos.Los mantendre informados de como avanza la salud del Rigol.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 06:49:05 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 10, 2018, 04:35:10 pmRemove moisture from the BNCs? Like blowing with a hair dryer? What is the relative humidity in your place?

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2018, 10:17:32 pm
content: hello, if the device does not lie, today there is 52% humidity and 24ºC

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 01:35:06 pm
content: I'm eager to see if Rigol can get your scope working.Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 10, 2018, 04:35:10 pmYour videos will look better if you hold your camera horizontal (landscape position) to match the aspect ratio of what you are videoing.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 01:46:46 pm
content: Quote from: Gary350z on May 11, 2018, 01:35:06 pmAfraid the op doesn't understand English well enough to get that, prolly this one is better ...https://youtu.be/AqHZJe6306k

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 05:39:11 pm
content: Adrian, te estan recomendando filmar con el telefono acostado para que los videos tengan el mismo formato que la pantalla del RigolAdrian, the recommendation is to film with the phone turned 90 degrees so the videos match the same form factor as the Rigol's screen.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 05:47:02 pm
content: I wish people would just stop whining about filming vertically. The incessant complaining is much more annoying than any badly framed video could ever be and people tend to complain even if filming vertically leads to a better framed picture. It's 2018, where most content is consumed on mobile devices and orientation has consequently become arbitrairy.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2018, 06:04:16 pm
content: TK, I understand, it happens that they are recorded videos for Rigol technical support, since they asked me for images or video of the problem so I captured the image through the rigol and recorded videos, I share them here in case the same thing happens to someone, from A few days ago they are behaving ten points, they explained how to open it, where to proceed and precautions. What I will not try for now is the new firmwarein spanishTK, te entiendo, ocurre que son videos grabados para el soporte tecnico Rigol, ya que me solicitaron imagenes o video del problema asi que capture imagen mediante el rigol y grabe videos, yo los comparto aca por si a alguien le ocurre lo mismo, desde haces unos dias se estan comportando de diez puntos, me explicaron como abrirlo, donde proceder y precauciones . lo que no voy a probar por ahora es el nuevo firmware

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 12:50:42 pm
content: Hello, I wanted to tell you that I made the cleaning recommended to me in rigol China, with alcohol and cotton, always wearing an anti-static bracelet, for now it's excellent. room humidity 51% temperature 18ºC, two days ago of the cleaning. I hope so continue. Apparently more than 60% humidity does not like it.in spanishhola, queria comentarles que realize la limpieza que me recomendaron en rigol China, con alcohol y algodon, siempre usando una pulsera antiestatica, por ahora anda excelente. humedad ambiente 51% tempereatura 18ºC, hace dos dias de la limpieza. ojala siga asi. Por lo visto mas de 60% de humedad no le gusta.Cleaning image of cleaning area / imagen de limpieza de zona de limpieza

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 12:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 16, 2018, 12:50:42 pmBullshit. I've got a marine aquarium in the same room and humidity is close to 80 %. Moreover I live at the seaside and anyway humidity here is high. My DS1074Z is one year old and it doesn't do anything of the sort.QuoteZarandajas. Tengo un acuario marino en la misma habitación y la humedad está cerca del 80%. Además vivo en la costa y la humedad sería alta de todas maneras. Mi DS1074Z tiene un año y no ha hecho nada parecido.Cleaning image of cleaning area / imagen de limpieza de zona de limpieza

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:02:34 pm
content: Interesting... maybe there was a lot of flux residue

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:19:45 pm
content: can be, tell me to perform these steps, if the problem persists and it does not become that the problem and was the main board could get to send me one to be replaced, but first step with step to identify the problem .in spanishpuede ser, me dijero que realize esos pasos, que si el problema persiste y no llega a ser ese el problema y fuese de la main board podrian llegar a enviarme una para ser reemplazada, pero primero pasa a paso con los paso para identificar el problema.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on May 16, 2018, 01:19:45 pmAlright, that sounds more reasonable. But suggesting that a humidity higher than 60% can be a problem...

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 01:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on May 16, 2018, 01:36:02 pmthe truth is not but the problem disappeared, and it was days here in my city of high humidity reaching 95% and a lot of rain, hopefully that and not a component problem.in spanishla verdad no se pero el problema desaparecio, y fueron dias aca en mi ciudad de mucha humedad llegando a los 95% y mucha lluvia, ojala sea eso y no un problema de componentes.

author: Twoflower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2018, 04:27:10 pm
content: English:Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the culprit are the trimmers right hand side to the relais. I could imagine that these could be more sensitive to humidity or other influences.Spanish:Yo no habla español.

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 08:33:54 am
content: What did the areas that you cleaned look like before you cleaned them?Were they clean or dirty?Did you see any flux there?It's nice to know you got help from Rigol China. I've always had very good help from Rigol USA.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2018, 12:29:19 pm
content: hello, they were like in the image they sent me, it looked like a little layer of dust, nothing that was very noticeable, spend alcohol with a cotton, close it wait 10 minutes and it worked, the weird thing is that it is so sensitive to humidity .Those who answered me were rigol china, tequipmenten and rigol usa, nothing at all.in spanishhola, estaban como en la imagen que ellos me enviaron, parecia como una pequeña capa de polvo, nada que fuera muy notorio, pase alcohol con un algodon, lo cerre espere 10 minutos y funciono, lo raro es que se tan sensible a la humedad.Los que me respondieron fueron rigol china, tequipmenten y rigol usa, nada de nada.

author: treesap
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 08:59:21 pm
content: I would just like to report that I experience the same problem with the probe compensation (with each of the probes/channels). I can only get itsogood. To be honest, I haven't rechecked the compensation after the device has "warmed up," but I will do so when I get home from work today. I'm wondering if this applies to all the models in a specific run? I acquired mine about 2 weeks ago from TEquiment (their Amazon store, that is.)

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2018, 09:53:57 pm
content: I solved the problem in this way. As the rigol told me to uncover the equipment and clean it with alcohol and cotton swab, in the four places marked in the image above, it was solved by 80%, but not satisfied with that after three days I repeated the process, but leave the equipment uncovered, receiving the plate ten minutes of sun, then re-assembled the equipment, and this is 100% perfect, which made me think that these teams are long filed or at some point accumulate moisture and rigol knows , that is why they recommended cleaning, but after seeing that it improved I deduced that the humidity was in the whole motherboard, so now I am really 100% satisfied with the result of working to remove the humidity, and calm because it is not a failure of some component. I acquired it in tequipment on February 2, 2018in spanishyo solucione el problema de esta manera. como me dijieron los de rigol destape el equipo y limpie con alcohol y bastoncillo algodon, en los cuatro lugares marcado en la imagen de arriba, se soluciono en un 80%, pero no conforme con eso a los tres dias volvi a repetir el proceso, pero deje el equipo destapado, recibiendo la placa diez minutos de sol, luego volvi a armar el equipo, y este quedo 100% perfecto, lo que me hizo pensar que estos equipos estan mucho tiempo archivados o en algun momento acumulan humedad y rigol lo sabe, por eso me recomendaron la limpieza, pero yo despues de ver que mejoraba deduje que la humedad estaba en toda la placa madre, asi que ahora estoy realmente 100% satisfecho con el resultado de trabajo de quitar la humedad, y tranquilo porque no es un fallo de algun componente.yo lo adquiri en tequipment el 2 de febrero de 2018

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 12:36:22 am
content: FWIW, I compensated one probe on CH1 immediately after turn on, then moved the probe to each other channel and it was still within compensation. After 1 hour, the probe is still identically compensated on each channel. 28C 52%RHI have noticed a compensation drift before, but did not note the changing conditions. It was not to this degree, however.

author: treesap
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 02:10:14 am
content: I'm back now, with pictures. I've left my device on for about 40 minutes, but have not seem MUCH of a change, though I believe it is a bit better, since first powering it on. Unfortunately, I did not think to take pictures until after it had been on for quite some time. I will do so tomorrow, as I will be using it for the next few hours.If I attempt to make the peak of the square wave completely flat, it has a definite high point on the left left side of each peak, as well as a distinct low point at the left hand bottom of each. I can reduce these peak, but as you can see in that photo, this results in top (and bottom) of the wave becoming clearly unlevel.Am I just trying to get better compensation than is realistically possible? I've certainly seen other photos where this unit with the stock probes has been adjusted much more accurately. (I actually ended up torquing one of the screws a bit too far in trying to achieve it the very first time I tried--oops.) The other three probes are consistently the same as in these images, though. Any insights? (My apologies for the slight lens flare--my camera lens isn't quite inperfectcondition.)

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 02:51:47 am
content: 1. Re lens flare and huge file size: Please just push the "print" button on your scope, just below the Help button at top right. This will print the screen image to a USB thumbdrive you have inserted into the USB port at bottom left. The image will be perfect, it will be the same resolution as your screen display and will be much smaller to up/download.2. On every probe I have, from Rigol or other manufacturers (Tek, HP, ProbeMaster), there is no "stop" to the adjustment cap. It is continuously rotating so you can't break it by turning it "too far". I don't have any of the newest model Rigol probes but I would be surprised to find that they were different in this regard.3. The compensation traces are looking quite a bit better. Are you using a plastic screwdriver that came with the probe to adjust the cap? Using metal tools can affect the setting.

author: treesap
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 30, 2018, 05:00:44 am
content: Thank you for the quick and detailed reply. I will certainly export the traces in the future. That will definitely be a better solution.Oddly, it did appear there was more than a "stop" position on the probe, but even a "break" position, in which further adjustments did absolutely nothing. As all further adjustments seemed to have no effect, I just set the probe aside. I will definitely do some more tests tomorrow. I am comforted by the fact that the probes are quite low-cost, at the least. However, it would be great if some more turning on the screw cured my issues.I am using the plastic screwdriver. For what it's worth, though (and this may be my problem), I did use a non-magnetized Wiha screwdriver at first on the first one (before noticing the included tool.) That might've been the coffin nail, although it had worked until the final torque with the included tool.So, you think the traces are looking acceptable now'? I was guessing they would serve me just fine, but the perfectionist in me was questioning whether they could get as impeccable as some of those I'd seen. I'm anxious to try them again tomorrow, to see if they are as good after first powering up the instrument. (Admittedly, if they still aren't, it's no serious bother--it just defies my understanding of ordinary, solid-state electronics.)Thank you again for the advice!