Infuriating Employment Agencies and How Not To Write a CV / Resumé - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2011, 04:20:04 pm
content: For obvious reasons, I think that right now many of us are thinking about the world of employment and where things are heading, so it seems appropriate to post this here.Recently I have been the recipient of quite a lot of attention from employment agencies. Not because they have work for me, but because I am self employed and run my own business. The agencies dig my details out of trade directories, put 2 and 2 together and assume that I must be in need of employees. So much so that one particular agency keeps sending me the CVs of other engineers in the region who are looking for work, despite me repeatedly telling them to Go Boil Their Head (okay, I did put it more politely than that).It has been great to read other peoples' CVs though. Surprisingly entertaining, and an eye-opener to say the least. The most recent CV I was sent was a real stunner. 3 years out of Uni and asking for £38,000. In the South of the UK that is probably peanuts, but this guy is in the UK equivalent of Detroit. He also has 6 basic English errors in his 55-word Personal Statement, the very first thing you read on his CV.Anyway, rather than clutter up the place with a huge long post, I have put it on my blog athttp://electronicsdesigner.blogspot.com/. If there is enough interest in it, I will gladly post the item here. I just wish I felt that I could publish the CV in full. Legally speaking I probably could, as it was unsolicited but, out of respect for the person concerned, I thought I should only post excerpts.If you read nothing else, then read this:Get someone else to proof-read your CV! It is easy to use the wrong word, spell it incorrectly, or even miss entire words out altogether. You can read it yourself several times and your brain will not see anything wrong. If you are dyslexic or not writing in your native language, then this is doubly important. In a 55 word statement, there is NO excuse for messing it up.Leave out the crap! This CV is 4 pages long. People don't want to wade through swathes of detailed exam results, or read about irrelevant skills you used 5 years ago and about which you only have a basic understanding. If you claim to be an embedded software engineer then a score of 45% in your Embedded Systems module at Uni isn't going to impress, even if you did graduate with a 2:1Elephants in the room. From his CV details, this guy was clearly born in Pakistan and lived there until he was 16, albeit now with UK nationality. Equality has come a long way, but we aren't there yet. We are at the stage where having an Asian name doesn't matter so much, but having been brought up outside the British culture very well might. Don't lie, and don't go out of your way to hide anything important, but equally don't give the recruiter's subconscious bigotry any fuel. There is no need to add your native language ability in Punjabi and Urdu, or what qualification you got in a Foundation College in Pakistan, unless it is required for the job. They will see your ethnic background when you get an interview, at which point it won't matter any more because your technical ability will shine through.Remember this: Ofallthe people you meet during the course of your application, only one of them has the power to say YES. All the rest are there to say no.I am always willing to learn more about recruitment and it would be interesting to see what people think of job applications and CVs. Maybe you have been responsible for recruiting and have some helpful hints. If you think I am wrong, say so!

author: ShiftPlusOne
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2011, 08:40:44 pm
content: Thanks for the tips.I don't quite understand why the language thing is a bad idea. Isn't it worth mentioning that you know languages other than English?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2011, 10:19:02 pm
content: After spending a fair bit of time on both sides of the ledger both writing and reviewing I can confirm any suspicion that head-hunters in general fall into the same class as real estate agents and marketing consultants. That is their particular skill is the application of large fees for minimal input.It may just be me but I'd have thought one of the tasks these head-hunters should be performing would be to review some of the CVs they pass along. I've been presented some true literary masterpieces including works of obvious fiction. Many featuring unique twists on the English language and languages unknown. Absolute mastery of language isn't necessary, good communication and presentation is!Please note that atrocious spelling and grammar is certainly not the reserve of immigrants or foreign applicants, I see more than a few ransom note style resumes from our home grown graduates as well.On the other side of the ledger I had my own CV heavily criticised by head-hunter in chief because of its size. Same said document did compromise a get to the point summary, along with a comprehensive summary of employment and project history. The headhunter hated my CV prospective employer loved it, guess who it was written for? Take advice from consultants by all means but remember a CV made to a formula is just another amongst the masses. Video, web links and other stuff can set you apart from the crowd, just make sure they are appropriate to the position your applying for.Long since self employed those same headhunters now randomly send me the unsolicited CVs of many aspiring yet clueless individuals interspersed with notices of some hard to fill positions they figure I'd just love to close up shop and apply for.As an employment applicant it's a good idea to ensure your resume/CV is accurate and well presented. As an employment consultant I'd have considered it in your interest to not pass on CVs that don't cut the mustard. All too often neither is the case.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2011, 10:53:52 pm
content: In America, if you can speak more languages than just english fluently you are much more valuable. Especially if its something like spanish.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2011, 11:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: Time on April 12, 2011, 10:53:52 pmTrue. If appropriate, but fluency in Gaelic or Babelese for example while useful may not win you the position.What is far from valuable is any mangling of the native language of a prospective position

author: alvarop
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2011, 12:43:44 am
content: Could we do a Resume/CV peer review thread on the forums?

author: allanw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2011, 06:10:08 am
content: At least in the US, it seems like a CV is only used if you've published papers. Otherwise people only submit resumes.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2011, 05:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: allanw on April 13, 2011, 06:10:08 amI didn't know there was a difference.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2011, 07:42:04 pm
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on April 12, 2011, 10:19:02 pmTrueQuoteI have had some bad experiances with agencies trying to "help" me get a job. Two spring to mind when I was last hunting having just been made redundant when the company closed.The first one was an agency that carried an advert for a job very similar to the one I had just lost. Very similar in fact. I applied - and found out that it was actually for my job - the one I had got 4 years before.The second insisted that I submit my CV in MS Word (I didn't own a copy). They wouldn't accept anything else. Usually I wrote my CV in OpenOffice and then PDFed it but it wouldn't export to the version of Word they wanted. When I got an interview from a company I saw what had happened to my CV. Completely butchered. The careful formatting I had done when I saw a friend who had that version of Word was completely ruined. The fonts had been changed (in an attempt to highlight bits that were relevant to the job). They had not included the covering letter I wrote (which was tailored to the job application as described in the advert.)Fortunately I had copies of what I had done which I gave to the company so they could see what I had considered to be all relevant information. As the interviewer said when reading the letter he wouldn't have invited me for an interview. The job they were offering was a technician role not a design role which his what I wanted. When I showed him the advert I had responded too, he showed me what originally had been sent out – again totally different to what I had seen so we just had to conclude the agency had “tweaked” the ad to make it more appealing to me thereby allowing them to increase the number of candidates that they sent for interview.Needless to say I never used either of those agencies again.Neil

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2011, 08:00:35 pm
content: That point about coming out of uni and asking for 38k, university qualifications and professional 'activity' in your industry will raise the offer, I have seen 36k with a certain doctorate Midlands UK. But you can't just go to a Multinational company and tell them how much they should pay you. Instead you enter the company (with a great salary) and work your way up. If you are an established professional or they are calling you in then they have a very good idea of what a starting point for remuneration is in your case. And don't be cheap, they don't want cheap, they want effective and not overpriced. Some other employers are looking for a 1-man army to help kick-start a venture. Other skills are important there. You should always ask yourself why is your potential employer hiring, apart from what they are after.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2011, 02:33:58 am
content: As mentioned above, if your language abilities are relevant to the job then sure, they should be there and in a prominent place. I guess it is difficult when you send your CV to an agency to tailor it, with the result that it is tempting to put everything in. Possibly including the kitchen sink, oven and dish washer. The impression that it left me with was that the writer is fluent in two languages. Unfortunately English isn't one of them.I don't blame the candidate in the least, the agent should be earning his money by correcting the CV, customising it by filtering out anything unnecessary and presenting it in a better format, so the candidate is presented in the best possible light. Then again, given my experiences with agencies, when they try to "improve" things, they end up massacring them.Running a quick search on this particular agent revealed that he graduated last summer with a Degree in Classics from a major London University (where he was popular in the dramatic society) and joined the agency three months ago. He really should be able to correct some of the more glaring mistakes. If I were ever in any doubt that agents don't actually want to work for a living, then this was it. I have used this agency in the past, it scares me to think what they did with my CV.I will be writing to the agent. Not to help the agent, but because I think that the person he is representing deserves a hand.

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2011, 04:32:33 am
content: I am working on mines, but with just a BSci., we write resume in the U.S.A. Most firms only take on line where it is cut or copy and paste it onto their web site form. I have education in geology, then that will be mining and mineral firms. The electrical markets have picked up momentum this year, but will not be like the dot com era in San Jose. A job was offered to me right at the factory gate, unreal. The rent in San Jose was $2,000./month USD during the 1996 to 2000 dot com era. Real estate, education, and government jobs are still scarce. The U.S. Federal government plans to reduce trillions of USD in spending. The U.S. government came close to shutting down, because it cannot increase the debt ceiling by law. California is not doing well at all.My suggestion:1. Do not write one resume for all jobs.2. Write a resume for that particular job and list relevant skills that might be attractive to that job.3. Each job should have its own, unique resume, no one generic resume for all jobs.4. Try to keep it one page. Most prospective employers are not going to invest the time to read your thesis or long research paper or special creation or project.Generic resume will leave out the suitability for that particular job.Lawsen

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2011, 04:51:30 am
content: Proofreading is a must. I haven't submitted any CVs or resumes but I translated books for about two years for a Polish publisher. The thing that always made me most nervous was knowing that I might have missed something in my proofread that their non-native English speaking proofreader would miss. In fact, I'm pretty sure they did miss some things - I read a number of reviews of the books later that stated that the English translation was just "Ok" but could have been better. It's the final presentation that counts and you certainly don't want your CV to read like a usenet post

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2011, 11:39:52 pm
content: Talking of proof reading, I think it must be the season, or perhaps something in the water. I got this job in my emails today:QuoteFairly sure they meant telescopicmastrather than mask. Quite what a telescopic mask might be, I am not quite sure. I also have a job spec here that seems to be 3/4 of a page of management speak rather than anything useful. This is a mere 20% or so:QuoteI don't know about you but I feel sleepy after reading that b*llocks. Pretty sure there was almost no real content in there whatsoever. A bit like those cans of spray-cream for the top of cakes, except less fun.

author: McPete
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2011, 10:03:31 am
content: This is all interesting reading- I've just submitted my CV for a traineeship, and I've borne this thread in mind as I've been writing... Keeping it brief, highlighting the experience that my prospective employer is likely to care about, and providing a small insight as to what I'm about were what I went for. I set myself a 2-page limit, and really pushed the line that I'm well established and ready to learn more. If people are interested, I'll thow a modified version up here for scrutiny and nit-pickery.

author: alvarop
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2011, 10:09:06 am
content: Quote from: McPete on April 15, 2011, 10:03:31 amI will be graduating soon and currently looking for a job. Maybe we can start a thread where we post the resumes and have more everyone take a look. I can't think of a better crowd to review them than other people in the industry.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2011, 12:51:17 pm
content: Pro tip: If you have any past or present projects include add pictures of them to your cover letter. They are as the saying goes worth a thousand words.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2011, 11:56:09 pm
content: Better still, have a web page with project details. You can keep that up to date and put on a lot more information and photos than you would on a piece of printed paper.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2011, 01:55:09 am
content: I know foreigners who can talk heaps better than me.Some time back, I did an adult education public speaking course. The teacher had an interesting story about how she and her family emigrated from India to Australia when she was a child.Back in those days, there was a lot of scrutiny and there was one important criteria that had to be met before their application to migrate would be considered. This woman's parents had to supply the Australian government with specific declaration documentation, references from consulate diplomats and even photos(!) to convince the immigration dept that they all were indeed 100% white.