Recommended Metcal tip(s) for drag soldering? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MatteoX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2023, 03:38:36 am
content: I got recently a Metcal MX500 soldering station for a very decent price. It came with a few used general purpose chisel and conical tips still in good condition.I would like to buy one or two hoof tips for drag soldering. I am using tin/lead solder. There are so many choices and I don't want to make a mistake. These gadgets are quite expensive ($55 - $60 new).I am thinking of SMTC-1147 (3.3mm hoof) and SMTC-1169 (2mm hoof). I would probably get first a wider tip and later add a narrower tip for crowded areas if needed. Metcal also has some concave hoof tips (like SMTC-1186 2.8mm, $65). Any thoughts/recommendations?What tips (for MX500) do you guys recommend for drag soldering? What temperature works better for you: 700 series (1xxx) or 600 series (0xxx)?I also saw that Thermaltronics makes compatible tips. They are significantly cheaper. For example, M6BV350 costs $36 vs Metcal equivalent SMTC-0147 for $58. They also have some other interesting tips like M7WV020(Hoof w/Dent 45° 2.00mm), M7WV300(Hoof w/Dent 45° 2.40mm) and M7WV031 (Hoof w/Dent 60° 3.10mm) Does anybody have experience with these tips? What is quality of Thermaltronics tips in general?I've seen here on the forum some discussions about tin face only (TFO) tips. Do Metcal or Thermaltronics make any of these?

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2023, 07:01:59 am
content: I have the SMTC-1169 and SMTC-1183.The 1169 gets used more often due to it being more narrow, helpful as the proximity of decoupling caps to the pins of the chip are usually quite close, the 2mm wide hoof squeezes better into the limited space. The overall area of the exposed surface will hold enough solder for any QFP package's side you'll see out there, so there's no point in going larger (e.g. 3mm wide) IMO. In fact, the problem with the 1169 is actually it is capable of holding too much solder, so if you load too much solder to the tinned surface, you will get bridging at the last few pins after dragging. The 1169 is tinned only on the hoof face.The 1183 does not have the bridging problem mentioned above, as the dent will help "scoop" away excess solder at the end of the drag. However it is wider and is more difficult to clean away solder within the dent.Overall, the 1169 is more narrow, agile and is my go-to, but it requires more skill and practice to use. The 1183 is also good as you will rarely bridge pins, but wider and does not always work with the space you have.I use 700 series temperature for all my tips. It works wonderfully on leaded and quite well for lead-free.Thermaltronics tips are a bit hit or miss. They work fine with my old second hand MX-500 (no LCD screen), but the MX-5200 refuses to work with them, throwing an error if you plug it in. The thermaltronics hot tweezers are absolute junk, the tips don't meet by a wide margin when you close the tweezers, and I literally had to bent the tips to have it hold anything at all. So overall I haven't been too impressed with Thermaltronics.I haven't use the thermaltronics tips enough to comment on tip plating quality, but the Metcal plating is very durable, wets well after a couple years of moderate use.Btw, the Hakko Fx-1003 tweezers works perfectly fine on both Metcal stations I own, so the Hakko Fx-1001 and fx-1002 will probably work fine as well (YMMV). Hakko's tip plating is bulletproof in my experience.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2023, 10:16:10 pm
content: Get the thermaltronics tips from amazon, they are cheaper and work just as well. No problems using them with my MX5200. If you have any issues just return them.The ThermaltronicsM6BV350you are referring to costs only $18 not $36.

author: MatteoX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 03:53:14 am
content: Quote from: TopQuark on April 11, 2023, 07:01:59 amThanks for the suggestions. It makes sense to look for tips narrower than 3mm. Both SMTC-1169 and SMTC-1183 look good. I'll try to find equivalent or similar Thermaltronics models. Since they are about half to a third of price of Metcal tips, I'll get both a hoof and a hoof with dent to see the difference in practice.Is it better to use a 45 deg. or a 60 deg. hoof? The latter will have larger area for the same diameter.Quote from: TopQuark on April 11, 2023, 07:01:59 amI even didn't know about Hakko FX-1000 series. I am currently not looking for the tweezers but it it good to know that they can be used with Metcal stations

author: MatteoX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 04:04:34 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 11, 2023, 10:16:10 pmYou are right. I don't know where did I found that price.It seems that Thermaltronics tips cost between 1/2 to 1/3 of the similar Metcal models (at least for the models I was comparing).In your experience, what is the longevity of Thermaltronics tips?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 10:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: MatteoX on April 12, 2023, 04:04:34 amMany years if well cared for, same as OEM tips. They have the color stripe to tell you the temperature rating as well (blue, yellow, red).Make sure you:- use the stand with sleep (magnets) in it, the WS1 that comes with your MX500 should have it.- do not use a sponge, use brass wool only.

author: Jamieson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 03:00:54 am
content: Quote from: TopQuark on April 11, 2023, 07:01:59 amCertain Metcal base stations were programmed to detect the faster thermal ramp up of the the Thermaltronics tips and would then flash that error code and shut down. Pretty sleazy IMO, like a printer rejecting aftermarket ink/toner.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 07:39:23 am
content: Bonjour, I was the original designer of the SP-200 Metcal station, (1990s)Very Happy to see this thread re Metcal tips and Thermatronics.I STILL use the SAME Metcal tips since 1990s, admittedly light use.After the expiration of Metcal patents others made compatible tips like Thermatronics.Generally tip selection depends on the desired temp and tip size/mass.I would suggest to use only 63/37 Eutectic solder if leaded is OK.Depending on the OP's requirements and use, OP might evaluate one each of the genuine Metcal and a Thermatronics and let the forum know the result, longevity, etc.Bon chance,Jon

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 08:12:04 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on October 25, 2023, 07:39:23 amOh!Thank you: I like mine

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 08:24:38 am
content: Definitely SMTC1147, both for drag soldering and general purpose larger work.However get the Thermaltronics one not the Metcal , not only is it a lot cheaper, but the geometry is better - it has sharper corners which makes it useful for reworking QFNs as it can get into the corner between the package wall and PCB, which the Metcal can'thttps://www.ams-electronics.co.uk/shop/iron-tips/iron-tips-thermaltronics/m-series/m7ds525-thermaltronics-soldering-tip-hoof-60-3-3mm-smtc-1147/Both Metcal and Thermaltronics have excellent plating life ( as long as you steer clear of leadfree) - apart from really fine tips, I find the heaters tend to fail before the plating.

author: Jamieson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2023, 11:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on October 25, 2023, 07:39:23 amNice design! We have quite a few original SP-200s around the workplace, all of them still going strong!

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 09:26:15 am
content: Jameson, TGGZZ: Many thanks for the note.The Metcal Smartheat were originally at 13.5 MHz ISO band and coaxial cable to the iron.It was prone to coax and connector issues and not that efficient.I was retained as a consultant to RayChem/Metcal to make the new 500 kHz resonant design and use a simpler cable, DIN connector and thus solve a few issues and have easier manufacture.Spec required 20 sec turn on to reach stable tip temp.Project took 1990..1992 to go into production.Later OK Industries and others sold SP-200 rebranded/relabeled. I think many 100,000s were madeFortunately I got few production SP-200 and selection of Metcal tips from the Customer.3 decades later my SAME SP-200 and SAME Metcal tips are still in service.It is a great satisfaction for an engineer and inventor to make use of their own ideas.Just a walk down memory lane....Jon

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 09:31:19 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 25, 2023, 08:24:38 amI've had the elements in 3 Thermaltronics tips die after 1-2 years of moderate use 3 days a week.They either stop getting hot at all, or they get hot but not fully up to temp, not enough to melt solder anyway.I was pondering replacing the knife tip that died with the Metcal version of the same thing, see if that has any issues.I do wonder if maybe pulling them out of the iron with the power on might not be good for them, but i would expect that to be more of an issue for the basestation due to reflected load, rather than the tip/element caring.I'd probably feel a bit more annoyed if i paid for the tips but i actually got 20 tips for free when i bought the iron. Was a special deal at the time. Great value for money when they cost $40 or so each

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 12:40:13 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on October 26, 2023, 09:31:19 amI don't find Thermaltronics tips any less reliable than Metcal - both usually die from heater failure before plating - typically they go intermittent first - the display on the MX5000 is a useful diagnostic, and you can sometimes revive them temporarily by tapping until you see the power increase suddenly. They always fail short, suggesing insulation breakdown of the coil.There was a time when Metcal gave a lifetime tip guarantee & you could send back tips with bad heaters & still-good plating for replacement - think I did this once - not tried recently as I mostly use Thermaltronics, but their website does still say the heater warranty is the lifetime of the plating.https://www.metcal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Metcal-Warranty-Chart-062021.pdfOn a couple of occasions I've seen an apparently dead heater actually be a ball of solder stuck in the connector, shorting the pins.