The end of the world's infamous bloatware (iTunes) is nigh! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 03:04:13 am
content: Yep, it is finally about to happen... iTunes is about to die. One must feel sorry for the poor bytes that were sentenced to a life of being part of the iTunes application. When iTunes is finally deleted, the hard disk should be treated for PTSD.But will Apple have learnt their lesson?https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-31/apple-s-future-ios-13-macos-10-15-watchos-6-tvos-13-mac-pro

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 05:09:17 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 03:25:32 amSounds like a Ryzen APU based mini ITX system would work nicely. Or probably don't even need mini ITX for that, since you could just mount the PC on the back of the monitor or the underside of the bench.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 07:51:23 am
content: I was "forced" to use iTunes by my daughter for a while ~7 years ago.It was the worst flagship program I have come across: a baroque kitchen sink that frequently acted as a disposal unit.While having had an admiration for Apples's usability since 1984, that admiration evaporated. No Apple, a "sync" operation that destroys your data when trying to download music isn't acceptable.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:02:20 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 03:25:32 amiTunes should be attacked. It is dreadful software. The cost of it (free) is far too expensive. The intuitiveness of the HMI gets 1 out of 10. The popup ads for the latest Justin Bieber Christmas Album gets 0/10.If your Apple dies, you are out of action for several weeks. If your home brew PC dies... maybe a day's downtime at most. You can build a decent PC. I built all mine over the past 20 years, spending many hours doing research each time on the sweet spot of quality/cost/performance/edge. I tend to go advanced but not too leading edge as the technical risk increases and the cost effectiveness diminishes. The only bad quality I have found it in building my own was from IBM's 20GB Deskstar ("Deathstar") hard disk in the early 2000's.I like Linux too. Unfortunately, Altium does not run on it.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:04:34 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 02, 2019, 07:51:23 amDitto! iTunes deleted all the files off my wife's iPod. It also destroyed the firmware on the device.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:22:14 am
content: So, if they kill off iTunes then how do users reformat the hard drives on their iPods?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:25:59 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 02, 2019, 08:02:20 amYeah it's HD hog alright but works well for what I use it for, just syncing my phone from time to time so if it dies i can easily build another and without losing any data.It's played OK with 3 versions of Windoze I've used it with.It is a PITA until you get used to it though however what it will be replaced with has me more concerned.3 new platforms apparently, one each for music and video streaming and IIRC a TV streaming platform.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:26:46 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on June 02, 2019, 07:51:23 amYep, when I was forced to use it I found the experience terrible.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:31:09 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 02, 2019, 08:02:20 amI can't speak for Apple, but yeah, I can have a PC back up and running for my main tasks in a matter of hours from scratch.Does it really take weeks to recover an Apple?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:40:13 am
content: nah, one day at most, such as with any pc.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 09:29:31 am
content: I'll believe it when it happensI reckon they'll keep the cash cow going, add or subtract something, give it a new skin and call it something different,like... iChunes ?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 06:34:54 pm
content: Meanwhile almost every other media player just uses USB mass storage, meaning you don't have to bother with any software to use it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 06:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 05:17:26 amShould be able to get a mini ITX Ryzen platform and install NVMe SSD and Wifi on that. Then for the 10G Ethernet, a PCIe card with a right angle adapter to keep the profile low. Shouldn't be too difficult to get it to basically the size of the mini ITX board, with some clever engineering for the thermal solution.Quote from: amyk on June 02, 2019, 06:34:54 pmBack in the day, Rockbox (for iPod and quite a few other audio players) did just that - do away with the proprietary database nonsense and just use the filesystem itself to organize the files.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 05:17:26 amQuote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 08:14:25 amI sense a disconnect here.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 08:36:08 pm
content: put iTunes on a PC, in 2013 just to get one free audio download from a website, been there done that, never again.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 03:06:19 am
content: I quite liked iTunes at one point, must have been around 2006? I had an iPod I got after trying out more than a dozen competing devices and finding that the iPod Nano (1st gen) was the only one that didn't have anything I hated about it. Anyway it worked well aside from making the mistake of trying letting it manage my library which would have been a catastrophe had I not had a backup. Then with each version it started to get worse and worse, more and more bloated. I think I quit using it when they changed it to no longer display the album artwork I had carefully curated. Then at some point I discovered MediaMonkey which works really well, just wish there was a Linux version.

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 03:18:24 am
content: You would be amazed by the quantity of bloated software out there. If iTunes was the only evil, I would be happy. Anti-viruses!Firefox!The problem is not only the software, it is the code and the tools that are used for compiling it. In that respect, .Net fails miserably. Basically, inclusivity in exchange for lessened efficiency.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 05:55:07 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on June 02, 2019, 08:02:20 amAwww, bullshit. Clearly you haven't used a Mac in, well, ever.If you use Time Machine (and you should) --- for which there is STILL no such tool for Windows that's free and just works without any bullshit -- all you do is start up the new machine and when it asks if you want to "Restore from Time Machine backup," you say yes, navigate to the backup (either a locally-connected hard disk or network-attached disk), click "OK," and then get lunch and when you get back, the new machine looks just like your old machine.When your Windows machine dies, you're fucked for a couple of days as you try to re-load Windows and then re-load all of the applications and configurations and such that you were using. It's a total clusterfuck.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 05:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 02, 2019, 08:31:09 amNo.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 06:04:36 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 02, 2019, 03:25:32 amFrom what a friend who works in Apple Support says:Apple has recognized that users have been bitching about iTunes for a long time, and the question was always how to fix it without screwing the people who've paid for music downloads and all that.The problem is that iTunes has become more than just a means to upload songs to an iPod and buy songs or albums from an online source. They added the streaming service, Apple Music. And it does movies and television shows, each with its own peculiar needs. You can rent movies or buy them. You can buy a season pass for TV shows, or buy one show at a time.So the thinking is that Apple will replace iTunes with more than one application, just like they do on iOS. There will be a Music app to manage streaming and downloads and your existing iTunes music libraries. There will be a TV app to manage TV shows and deals with a cable or satellite TV provider (which is how a lot of current cable TV channels handle their rights management). There will be a Movies app.I think this all makes perfect sense, and is long overdue.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 06:37:46 pm
content: Their mistake was letting it get bloated in the first place. iTunes should have never been anything but a music application. They should have had a separate podcast application, a separate video application, etc. These are all distinctly different purposes that I rarely if ever want to do more than one at a time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:37:25 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 02, 2019, 08:31:09 amNo. On the contrary, one of the features of the Mac that many professionals appreciate is Time Machine, the built in backup software. If you use it, you can be up and running again within hours, with everything exactly as it was on the old machine. And I meanexactly.So if a Mac dies or is lost or stolen, you can go to a local shop, buy a new one, hook up your backup drive, and within a few hours be back up and running with little to no manual intervention. From what I’m told, Windows and Linux still don’t have anything quite as seamless.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:40:28 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 03, 2019, 06:37:46 pmIt made sense if you look at the development of iTunes and the iPod. It began as a music player, then they added video to it. There was no streaming video back then. (Youtube hadn’t even been invented!)The mistake wasn’t in putting those things in to begin with, it was in not separating them soon enough.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 01:29:10 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 04, 2019, 12:40:28 amYoutube was founded in February 2005, while the video version of the iPod was first released in October 2005. I recall there was even a "Youtube edition" iPod with a red front. Watching videos on a 2.5" screen was really just a novelty, however.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 09:41:24 am
content: When I said with Apple you are out of action for a few weeks, I meant when the motherboard fails. You just can't go down the local store and get another one. What about sending back under warranty? Repair it maybe? Good luck.I do admit that Mac hardware is very reliable, so the risks are relatively low. Unlike IBM... now Lenovo. Or the low end Dells. In any case, no Altium support on platforms other than Windoze makes Mac OS and Linux a poor choice for anyone developing PCBAs using Altium.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 10:11:49 am
content: But wait! There is one piece of bloatware bigger than iTunes: Labview device drivers. Develop a simple Labview application that reads from the serial port and you have to load >100MB of device drivers... for a blooming serial port, because they force you to load almost every device driver for every NI DAQ card! One workaround is to write a DLL in C# and use .NET for sending/receiving data to the serial port.I would like to see a T-Shirt saying:"I love Edlin" on the front."I love iTunes" on the back.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 10:25:25 am
content: I was so fed up with iTunes when I wanted to switch from an iPhone 6 to an iPhone 7 (backup and restore) and after hours of frustrating failures, I got rid of a brand new iPhone 7 and promised myself to never use iTunes again.This used to be a simple task but when the versions of iTunes do not match versions of iOS on one phone or the other it is horrible to say the least. And I really tried hard.At the end I just gave all my Apple stuff away!Never again!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 10:34:41 am
content: My first exposure to the Apple ecosystem was the iPhone 4.Despite not having any interest in all the "feature and benefits" offered with iTunes, IHADto install it in order to enable my brand new phone. It could not be done any other way. This went against the grain so much I dare not even try to express my displeasure.Quote from: HighVoltage on June 04, 2019, 10:25:25 amSame here. I sent it all to Dave in the hope it might help with the 121GW App development, but I believe it's OS was too old. I'm still happy it's gone.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 12:38:51 pm
content: There was a lovely little tool I used that worked until a release in late 2017.It was called Share4Port and you can bind a sound card over the network and it will appear on Itunes as a speaker and you could also record from it.https://sourceforge.net/projects/shairport4w/It was very handy until that release and I read they were trying crack down and none Apple Airplay or certified stuff so it would no appear in the list of speakers.When it stopped doing that it became all bloat to me.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 01:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on June 04, 2019, 01:29:10 amOops, you’re right, youtube predates iTunes/iPod video slightly. But it certainly wasn’t the phenomenon it is now. (Remember the trouble many slow computers and internet connections had playing it?) But no doubt if Apple released iTunes video in May 2005, then it had been under development for a while before that.Anyhow, the red and black iPod wasn’t a YouTube edition, it was the U2 special edition, as in the band, with whom Jobs was chummy. (YouTube and U2 may sound only one consonant apart, but they’re worlds apart otherwise! :p)And while watching videos on them wasn’t anything likely to replace your TV, it did get used plenty for travel, watching on the bus home, etc.Regardless, my point still stands: the integration of video into iTunes made total sense in the context of the time when it was done. It’s easy to say in hindsight how we’d do things differently, but that doesn’t make the decisions wrong at the time they were made!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 01:39:11 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on June 04, 2019, 10:34:41 amAnd that was the last model to be that way. The 4S (and iOS 5) introduced the ability for the phone to self-activate.I’m surprised the iTunes activation requirement stuck around as long as it did. It made sense with the original iPhone, which used a super elegant setup within iTunes that not only activated the phone, but set up the then-new unlimited data plan with AT&T, but once they eliminated the data plan activation within iTunes, I don’t know why iTunes activation stuck around. (The only thing I can surmise is that it had to do with how the SIM lock was applied, insofar as it seemed that the phone was “born” or restored completely locked, and activation configured the appropriate SIM lock, according to Apple’s activation database, and somehow shoved this into the baseband firmware. So perhaps the early firmware didn’t have the ability to self-update, thus requiring it to be done externally? This is all pure speculation on my part.)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 06:32:32 pm
content: I really liked my iPhone 4, iOS 6 was so slick and polished, IMO it was the pinnacle of iOS development and nothing since has worked nearly as well. Unfortunately the hardware just got too slow for the modern world, and it had only 8GB of memory so I was constantly dealing with no space.My current iPhone SE is very nice hardware but the OS is crap. It has iOS 10 which is the last to support 32 bit apps, that's another thing that really irks me, about half the apps I use are 32 bit and have never been updated or had suitable equivalents made. In removing support for 32 bit apps Apple is attempting to forcefully take away functionality from me, things that are already working. Even after blocking their update server the OS update still manages to download like a virus behind my back and I have to be careful to check frequently and delete it when it does. iOS 10 is incredibly buggy compared to 6, my reminders don't work reliably at all and never have, in 6 they worked flawlessly and I relied on them heavily. Updating the OS would do no good because apparently the issue persists even in iOS 12 along with a host of new bugs that each new version brings.I never liked Steve Jobs when he was alive, but he must be turning in his grave, if he saw the state of Apple's flagship software today heads would roll. It used to be well worth paying a premium because it was so polished, now it is not really any better than competitors. The only thing keeping me on an iPhone is the lack of compact phones on the market, the original iPhones were the perfect size, pretty much every decent spec phone on the market today is a gigantic monstrosity. The huge size is completely unnecessary.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 11:17:48 pm
content: My main problem with iphones is that to make apps for them, even for personal use, you need to buy a mac (for the IDE) and an apple developer licence which costs $100/yr (at least when I last checked). It's also annoying that you must use iTunes to manage the phone from a computer, and there's no Linux version of iTunes and zero open source support. So it's nice to hear they have finally decided to get rid of it, although I don't have any illusions it will lead to better interoperability.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 12:22:47 am
content: What about the land fill mess from those iTunes crap cardsfuture generations will just love remnants of it in their morning breaky and maccas

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 07:14:43 am
content: Of course they do, I have 2 or 3 in my wallet right now. A lot of people like getting some sort of physical gift, maybe not logical but it's just how it is.

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 08:52:11 am
content: I still have an old iPod Mini 1st generation that I updated with a 32Gb compact flash card and a new battery.Used iTunes once and got pretty upset with that POS.Ever since I have been runningRockboxwith no issues.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 09:27:18 am
content: My only Apple device is an iPod Nano 3rd generation, won many years ago at a promotion lottery. Even back then I was horrified by the iTunes. Looked nice, but it felt like it was trying to control my life.Ditched it in a couple of days, looked for a free application that also allows to upload or download to any PC without the need of a crappy proprietary iTunes installed on the PC host. Why everybody can make a player act like a USB drive where one can drag files back and forth, while Apple needs a proprietary app installed on the host?The player is nice, very good hardware, I still use it to play audiobooks in a DIY docking station. Yet, it was incredibly expensive if it were to buy. For that kind of money one would expect an iTunes that lets you do whatever you like, but no, iTunes was acting like the hardware was some kind of freeware.Anyways, instead of iTunes found a program called "floola", and using it since.Floolawas so good that I'm still using it today, without any updates. Very small program, I keep it in the iPod, and run it from the iPod. Available for Windows, Linux and Mac. Let's one move or copy whatever between a PC host and an iPod player. No question asked, no updates nagging, no firmware push, no data harvesting, no calling home, no other stupid thing each and every piece of software does nowadays. It just do one thing, and do it well, without asking for attention or trying to "protect" me, or to "enhance" my experience.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:34:10 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 08, 2019, 12:22:47 amiTunes gift cards been made of paper for a few years now, FYI.Their primary purpose is to top up with cash, so kids can go to a store and buy iTunes credit before they have a credit card of their own. What baffles me is why there aren’t cardless cash top-ups, that work the same was as mobile phone top-ups (where the activation code is simply printed on the receipt tape).As for actually giving gift cards as gifts: I’ve never understood the point of this (and consequently of the racks of gift cards for every restaurant and store chain imaginable, as you now see in US grocery stores). If you’re going to give someone the means to spend somewhere, why not just give them cash, or a Visa/MC/Amex prepaid gift card (since those work online, where better deals are often found)?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:40:08 am
content: To add to my reply above:Quote from: blueskull on June 08, 2019, 06:03:31 amYes, astoundingly.More than ever:https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/first-datas-18th-annual-prepaid-consumer-insights-study-shows-growth-trends-in-branded-currency-2018-11-28In my family, my parents just give me actual cash, or (in the past) a check, or wire the money, or just ask me what gift I want. So the whole practice of gifting actual gift cards is odd to me.I forgot to say above that despite all my reservations about iTunes gift cards, I actually buy them for myself, paid for with my own credit card (the same card already on file with Apple as the default payment method). Why? Because at BJ’s they sell the gift cards for 5% below face value.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:58:51 am
content: That doesn’t make any sense. We are talking about consumers giving other consumers small-value gift cards. That doesn’t involve accountants or income tax. Nor would it make any difference, since from a tax perspective a gift card is the same as cash or any other non-cash gift. The IRS isn’t going to come after you for a $25 Chili’s gift card or $25 in cash, either way.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 02:31:54 am
content: Gift cards are, if anything,easierto track than cash. Cash is 100% anonymous. Gift cards aren’t entirely, insofar as both the transaction that creates the card and the transactions that consume it can be correlated.Tax rules in USA (and in most places, presumably) state that fundamentally, all gifts are taxable (with a few exemptions). So whether it’s as cash or a gift card or an actual object, or from a human person or a legal person (organization, company, or other entity), it’s all the same: taxable income.Hence my point that gift cards do not, in any way whatsoever, facilitate tax evasion. Cash is always the best for that.(I’m not a lawyer or tax expert, but I did take a tax accounting class in college.)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 04:40:12 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 09, 2019, 01:34:10 amBecause cash isn't personal, I'm not generally opposed to receiving cash but many people view it as a sort of cop-out, like you didn't even try to think about what the person you are giving a gift to would want. If everyone just gave cash as gifts it would be kind of pointless anyway, I give a family member some cash for Christmas and they give me some cash then it's a bit pointless to even exchange gifts in the first place. I do sometimes enjoy getting a gift card though because it encourages me to go out and do something fun or buy something I want but don't really need, whereas cash would just go into the general fund, I already have plenty of cash in the bank to cover my general needs so while useful it's not really a very exciting gift.