Siglent special offers on the SDS2000X series - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mark-r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 03:50:25 pm
content: I've been looking to buy a new scope and, as you do, I've been looking at websites doing my research.I think my decision has just been made easier because on their US site, Siglent has announced a free bandwidth upgrade for any SDS2000X series scope, and a buy 2 get 4 deal for software options (I was interested in the MSO and Arb options so looks like I could get the serial decode and logic probe hardware free.If this offer comes to Europe too, I think this makes Siglent unbeatable for price/performance.

author: robert_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 04:42:38 pm
content: Is the firmware finally useable?Last version i saw was a pretty bad joke.

author: DanNorman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 04:42:55 pm
content: mark-r: You should checkhttp://www.siglent.eu/

author: DanNorman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 04:46:09 pm
content: robert_: The latest firmware for SDS1000X series is certainly very usable. As I understand, they share part of the firmware with SDS2000X?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:01:08 pm
content: 1000 points FFT, only decode what is on screen and like 1400 points high-res is not what I would call useable.BTW: Siglent.eu isn't their official site and but a dealer and from personal experience I wouldn't recommend to buy from them!

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:14:11 pm
content: Quote from: mark-r on April 01, 2016, 03:50:25 pmYes, of course it is also in Europe.1.You pay (example) 4ch 100MHz modelYou get 4ch 200MHz modeIf not want options, thats it.2. If you want also options offer (need do together with oscilloscope purchase)You pay LA lisence + LA probe (16 channel)You get LA lisence + LA probe (16 channel) + FG + DC(FG = function generator. DC = serial DeCoder)3.If purchase directly 2 or 4 channel 300MHz model offer can not rise frequency so for compensation it give LA+LAprobe + FG + DC free.siglent.eu is just one seller in Europe. It is NOT Siglent official.Here is Siglent official in Europe:http://siglenteu.comOffer is here, including 0% VAT prices and official explanation about Siglent rules for offer.http://siglenteu.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=2332&sid=210

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:26:43 pm
content: Quote from: mark-r on April 01, 2016, 03:50:25 pmDefinitely looks to be a great offer, but without any warranty* I would think twice!(*I would lose the warranty immediately by changing the cheapo, noisy fan with a proper one.)

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:28:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2016, 05:01:08 pmIt is not so simply...Please tell also how much "only" there can be on the screen for decoding.For real frequency domain analysis there is also real tools available. Example SSA3000X.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:40:38 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 01, 2016, 05:28:10 pmTry and use decoding for diagnosing a real problem and you'll know how utterly useless it is to decode what is only on screen. Say you have a long I2C message and you want to look at a timing problem somewhere in the message. On an oscilloscope which only decodes what is on screen you won't be able to look at the problem with the message decoded on the screen because once the beginning of the message is off-screen the decoding is gone.Regarding FFT: Like many spectrum analysers the SSA3000X starts at 9kHz and won't be very usefull at those frequencies either. Long FFT on an oscilloscope is very handy to look at filters and frequency response in general in the audio range (DC to tens of kHz) and to look at EMC problems in switching power supplies where the problems are usually (far) below 200MHz. It is very handy to see the shape of the waveform and the spectrum together in order to determine what causes an EMC problem. A spectrum analyser won't show the signal only the resulting frequency spectrum! Also the frequency resolution can be much higher than that of a spectrum analyser if you have long FFT records. All in all it is total nonsense to say FFT on a scope is just a toy in general.edit: typo

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:42:42 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 01, 2016, 05:26:43 pmWhere you have been listening it?Also FAN they used is not at all worst elcheapo. But also it is not FAN's rolls-royce.If FAN noise is really real problem I believe it is somehow possible to negotiate with Siglent in some individual particular situation. (I can not promise but I want believe. But of course it also depends... (many things))Example in SDS2000 or SDS1000X FAN is really not problem (and I listen these nearly every day) if compare example Rigol "turbines" what I have also listened in same environment.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 05:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2016, 05:40:38 pmWhy need move beginning of message out from screen. You do not know window?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 06:03:07 pm
content: What window? Please be more specific!

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 06:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 01, 2016, 05:42:42 pmIn Dave's recent teardown. It was growling terribly with no any sign of rubber insulation between the fan and the case. Really, it is a 2k euro device and they save on a 10 euros fan and 0 euros rubbers? Sure, it is not Rigol level noise, but that things would be out of question (e.g. because of the noise).Other deal breaker for me is the lack of a proper, pre decimation peak detection mode, if I listened carefully Performa's review set.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 06:32:56 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 01, 2016, 06:09:18 pmThis must be some kind of misunderstanding of the wrong interpretation.Least in SDS2000 (2304) I can not see any problem in peak detect. (and I believe SDS2000X is least same or better.)

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 06:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 01, 2016, 06:32:56 pmQuote from: Performa01 on January 10, 2016, 05:00:56 pm

author: mark-r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 09:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2016, 05:01:08 pmAny reason for that? I ask because the 2 official UK distributors don't even have the 2000X series on their websites at all, never mind the offer, but siglent.eu have already changed their prices to reflect the offer.

author: DanNorman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:02:00 pm
content: siglent.eu is clearly an authorized distributor. As is eleshop.nl from which siglent.eu is shipping.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: mark-r on April 01, 2016, 09:47:40 pmAfter making the sale Siglent.eu was not doing anything (except for hoping I would stop complaining) in trying to get Siglent to get the SDS2204 I bought from them in a useable state. They even refused to take it back when it turned out Siglent would/could not fix it within a reasonable timeframe which basically left me with a loss of 2000 euros (and a non working scope). Siglent.eu (and they have many other websites/brands as well) is clearly just moving boxes.If you consider buying any Siglent equipment get it on loan first and only pay when it works in a way which is acceptable for you. That way you don't risk getting screwd.@DanNorman: Funny you mention Eleshop.nl. Their service was top notch when I found some issues in my GW Instek GDS2000E scope. They contacted GW Instek for me and had the issues fixed within a couple of weeks with the first fix arriving within a few days.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:14:27 pm
content: Hah, then I can replace the fan without losing the not too effective eu warranty(sorry, just kidding)

author: DanNorman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 10:27:05 pm
content: nctnico: eleshop.nl is the company that shipped my Siglent SDS1000X even though I paid to siglent.eu. I´m glad you say their customer support is good! It´s always a gamble buying chinese stuff

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 08:25:22 am
content: Quote from: mark-r on April 01, 2016, 09:47:40 pmQuite possibly because the offer is so very recent.I was made aware of it only yesterday; Friday NZ time.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 08:33:07 am
content: Yes, official release for this information was yesterday01.04.2016".....Free bandwidth upgrades onnewlypurchased SDS2000X starts from now to 2nd July 2016.........Public info to end customers will be released today...."Design world made a video for SDS2000X:(Time 3:00 also inside scope)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 08:37:32 am
content: Quote from: pxl on April 01, 2016, 06:38:37 pmAs the last FW for both 2000 and 2000X series was released early Dec last year and Siglent have taken detailed notice of Performa01's analysis of the later V2 FW, (mostly in Jan, at least those you are quoting) it would be prudent to expect further tweaks (some based on Performa01's findings) for the 2000X series.I'll have one in a few weeks to try for myself.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:52:08 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2016, 08:37:32 amYou mean like the kind of tweaks they did for the SDS2000 in the two years since the scope has been released, many based on user findings?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 09:59:50 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 02, 2016, 09:52:08 amAnd dare we say thanks for yourconstructiveinput for ongoing product development.Not likely, there's been none.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 10:14:01 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2016, 09:59:50 amI'm still waiting for RF-loop's comparison between the SDS1000X/2000X versus other brands when it comes to the advanced features like digital channels, decoding, decoding on digital channels, FFT, math, processing speed, network connectivity, etc. Pretty pictures is one thing but every time I bring up comparing the advanced features then suddenly they are not relevant or there is an akward silence. So man up and show how much the firmware has been improved by Siglent!

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 12:19:55 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 01, 2016, 06:38:37 pmThere is some kind of bug in peak detect as Performa01 have noted.This is based to my testings and valid only for SDS2000 without X.For reliable display in peak detect mode.It looks like it happend with 200 - 500MSa/s with some memory lenght.There is available guite lot of memory settings and until this bug is repaired I recommend to avoid 200-500MSa/s speeds.This can do by selecting amount of memory. There is 1.4k to 70M (in SDS2000) memory settings. If your t/div setting with memory you have selected give samplerate between 200, 250, 400, 500MSa/s just select amount of memory so that speed is 100MSa/s or below or 1GSa/s or more. I can not find situation where I can not do this.Of course, this is my personal recommendation and it is temporary until the problem is resolved.What ever speed in peak mode trigger itself is rock solid reliable if peak width what cross over trigger level is 1ns or more.I can perhaps imagine how this happend there after ADC but without real knowledge how it trig and how it pick up data for display pathway it can only do more or less clever guesswork.I have just tested it using all t/div speeds with pulse what scope see around 0.5ns to 2ns width and setting trigger level where is is just bit over 1ns Trigger counter do not loose pulses and what ever t/div I can select memory so that samplerate is 100MSa/s or less or 1GSa/s or more. It need note that with full memory there do not even need peak detect between 5ms/div to 1ns/div range because 5ms/div can do 1GSa/s and 2ms/div to 1ns/div all is 2GSa/s. Below 5ms/div if want peak detect work need drop memory so that samplerate drops to 100MSa/s or less and/or go to more slow timebases down to max. Including also roll mode.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 01:18:30 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 02, 2016, 09:59:50 amSo I guess you're agreeing then that the SDS2000 (amongst other Siglent products) are still in development state and haven't yet reach a status where they can be considere mature enough for being released to the market?QuoteI believe myself (and many others) have given Siglent way more feedback for their products (in my case the SDS1000, the SDS1102CML and the SDS2000) than a manufacturer that charges 100% for a product where maybe 80% of the specified functionality works correctly or at all at release really deserves. Not that it was of much use, considering how long it took them to even implement some of the simpler fixes.But of course I'm happy to offer to extensively test any new Siglent product and provide an extensive list of bugs and potential feature improvements, however I fear my hourly charge-out rate might be a bit too high for them (only a moron would do it for free).I guess instead of fixing the current mess first they rather throw new bug-ridden products on the market, like that new SSA3000X, which again comes with hillarious bugs like having the screenshot file selection window captured in that screenshot itselfYou really can't make that shit upQuote from: nctnico on April 02, 2016, 10:14:01 amExactly.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 01:30:35 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 02, 2016, 12:19:55 pmHow long is temporary? Peak detect never worked right on the SDS2000(X) for over 2 years now!

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 01:55:16 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 02, 2016, 01:18:30 pmYour SSA3000X comment is valid for this?Current Version: 07.03 | Published?2016-03-29Today this is history but..I remember my old R&S Spectrum analyzer what price was one house when it was new.There was nearly fatal class bug. If with narrow range RBW (least if was using this narrow continuously adjustable RBW) adjust too fast freq span or center freq whole equipment crash (freeze) and can not go out until boot agen. All user settings loosed and default setup loaded. Even with latest firmware what have less bugs what previous. Never fixed.But, it is clear that Siglent (as many others also) need develop better practices for FW beta/final test before product is accepted to public sell.There need be independent test group who know how equipments are used in real works in customers side and never they can same persons who do FW programming. If programmer is who do these important tests it is big major class mistake! Programmer is many times blind for his own mistakes exept in very very early phase basic things! Also testers need have lot of experience. Saving 1 amount of money in this phase costs easy 100 or thousend time more. Whole working culture need develop. (And least I believe it is going on but also time is running...)

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:08:24 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 02, 2016, 01:55:16 pmI don't know. But the thing is that such blatantly obvious bugs should not be in a release product.QuoteWhat model was that?QuoteI wonder what model that was, because I know pretty much all the R&S SAs back to the old FSEA Series, and while I've seen quite a few bugs in them, I can't recall that anything that serious would have been left unfixed.QuoteI fully agree with you here, however I think it's clear now that this unlikely to happen. Siglent isn't a new business, they're doing this for a while, and I'm sure they must know that pretty much everything comes out with bugs that should not be in a release quality product. It's not that they don't know any better, they willingly decide to forego improving their development methods, very likely in a means to keep costs down.The sad thing is that this is actually a real shame, because I believe their hardware (with some exceptions) is actually pretty good. For the SDS2000, my only complaint with the hardware would be that the multi-function encoder knob was placed too close to another knob (was it Trigger Level?). That's it. Everything else is down to software. If they were to do software properly, they had very good chances to climb up the T&M food chain to become a reputable brand which can then charge higher prices. But they're pretty much pissing away that potential with their software.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:09:06 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 02, 2016, 01:30:35 pmThis time it can say it really did not work (V1 in SDS2k). Today, situation is very different. If I use SDS2000 it never fails in peak detect. I can extremely easy avoid just these some memory/samplerate combinations where this problem exist if peak what need detect is ns class. (these selections combinations can also turn off so that user can not do these settings, also this method for repair it is just ok if want fast repair.)I do not try tell it is ok. But, when user know his equipment current limit he never trop to this trap what is extremely easy jump over (until it is repaired) Previous peak detect FW repair was totally in different class.Also this bug is not in HW. But all know to do list have also some kind of priority order.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:21:56 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 02, 2016, 02:08:24 pm5GHz FSB but not remember anymore exactly version.(but it is true that this crash did not happend easy, only in some rare settings combinations + very fast turn adjusment knob, but still wonder it because mostly R&S (what I have used) equipments have been really in top-class or "state of art" class.)

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 02:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 02, 2016, 02:08:24 pmI think opposite. Not as black and white but I believe they are developing. Of course this process is hard and perhaps also they have done mistakes and need learn. Perhaps also in some phase some peoples have been too optimistic and believe that some thing is "easy to do" and after then reality come in...What I have talked with Siglent, and what experience I have with them I can see continuous trend to better in many areas.Also I have some kind of imagine what kind of recrytion process they have in China going on and it also may give signal that something is going on in product development. (some times it can see in Siglent (real) chinese internet sides).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2016, 03:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 02, 2016, 02:21:56 pmWell, the FSB was, together with the FSA, amongst the first spectrum analyzers R&S made, and that was way back in the '80s. I think the FSB was R&S' equivalent to HP's 8568B.It's been a very long time when I last saw an FSB but if I remember right these things didn't even have firmware upgrades in the sense as we have today (the firmware was spread around the boards in various EPROMs, although some part of the user software was on a MFM hard drive?). R&S probably did fix the bug in a later firmware version, but a firmware upgrade at that time would have probably meant board swaps plus re-alignment which I'm sure wouldn't have come for free.Back then we mostly had HP SAs (pretty much 8566A/Bs), and I remember that some of these had some minor bugs which wasn't present in newer production units, and when the affected wenit in for repair (which wasn't that uncommon) HP seemed to replace the firmware in those units as well.Thanksfully, that's not much an issue today.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 05:30:39 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 01, 2016, 06:38:37 pmHere is attached small table where can see problematic settings combination with PeakDetect mode.NOTE: This is NOT SDS2000X, this is tested using SDS2000!I have tested it now with every settings what can see in table.Also with these problematic settings trigger itself work rock solid. But some times detected pulse is very attenuated on the display. If all is ok, trigged 1ns or more wide pulse must be least trigger level height.(ADD: Note for table: Peak detect works also with these orange colored settings but do not meet specifications >1ns minimum. In these areas it also trigger rock solid down to 1ns glitches. Problem is peak draw. In table orange areas it looks like that reliable display need >2 - >5ns glitch width, depending decimated samplerates)Also just two random images from tests...

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 06:26:07 pm
content: At 1ms, how does a 50ns pulse look like with 14k? (e.g. at rate 10kHz)

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 08:29:34 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 03, 2016, 06:26:07 pmNot exactly as you want but I find these. If neeed later can do as you want at 10kHz.In these images pulse is rectangle and rise/fall 6ns and middle width 50ns. first near 500Hz and two other well under 1Hz

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 09:03:14 pm
content: Thanks, it seems good, indeed. The problem really edge case then.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2016, 09:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: pxl on April 03, 2016, 09:03:14 pmNo. Nothing is more confusing than a signal showing at one time/div settng and dissapearing on another. It makes you doubt the measurements. Try it and you'll see for yourself...

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 03:37:58 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 03, 2016, 09:26:50 pmIt can correct easy. Siglent can shut off these "illegal" settings combinations in PeakDetect mode.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 05:55:42 am
content: Quote from: pxl on April 03, 2016, 06:26:07 pmHere image using 50ns pulses with 100us period (10kHz) and PeakDetect 1ms/div, 14k memory (in SDS2k what ever memory lenght is selected or currently in use, whole lenght is visible, no overlap =what is captured is what you see, even with 70Mpoints lenght. This is Siglent solution, others can do how they want.)(Note for previous table: Peak detect works also with these orange colored settings but do not meet specifications >1ns minimum. In these areas it also trigger rock solid down to 1ns glitches. Problem is peak draw. In table orange areas it looks like that reliable display need >2 - >5ns glitch width, depending decimated samplerates)Note agen, this is SDS2000notSDS2000X !

author: willd1971
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 04:39:16 pm
content: Attention UK buyers. The SDS2000X promotion is now available from Labtronix here:https://labtronix.co.uk/drupal/shop/oscilloscope/sds2000x.htmLabtronix can drop-ship these oscilloscopes direct from Siglent EU, takes no more than 5 days - we always aim to give the best service and the best prices!<***UPDATE***>Delivery time has increased to approximately 2 weeks due to high demand - Sorry.Hopefully this will settle down after the initial period of the offer and more stock will be on-hand</***UPDATE***>All the bestWilliam

author: mark-r
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2016, 09:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: willd1971 on April 04, 2016, 04:39:16 pmBrilliant, I'll order one soon

author: papousek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 02:34:28 am
content: @ Siglenti can not find official seller in Japan,,,please help

author: F5D
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 am
content: Hi guys, I am new on this forum. Fantastic resource of information! I am mainly an audio guy, collecting synthesizers etc., but do my own maintenance and modifications to gear, where I need test equipment. I am also looking for a new scope to keep up-to-date. At work I use more expensive stuff. This Siglent series looks really promising, especially with the offer price.I would also like to hear what are the actual differences in use between the SDS2000X and SDS1000X series? Is the 2000-series really faster drawing on the screen with same settings? I just noticed an interesting thing browsing the brochures. For 1000-series, the highest sensitivity level listed is 500 uV/div, whereas for the 2000-series it is only 1 mV/div. This must be a mistake, right? The 2000X should reach the same noise performance as the 1000X? Also, would like to know how the enhanced resolution (eres) works with the latest firmware, how does it affect the update rates etc. And lastly, the FFT-mode, is it useable or not. I mainly need frequency range 0 - 500 kHz for audio equipment.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 08:07:37 am
content: Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amWelcome to the forum!The scope looks promising but I'd strongly recommend to read the threads about the SDS2000 and other Siglent gear as 'looking promising' doesn't mean the promises get fullfilled. Siglent has a very poor track record in terms of firmware bugs, and the SDS2000 (the predecessor of the SDS2000X, with the difference being down to cosmetics and sample memory size) still has issues even after more than 2 years on the market. I had a SDS2204 myself, and it was truly by far the worst scope I ever had (and I had a lot!).Therefore my advice, do your research, don't believe the marketing that tells you about all the great functions you get, make sure if you buy a Siglent scope that you can easily return it as many functions may not work correctly or at all.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 08:25:43 am
content: Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amYes and no. Mostly yes.Highest wfm/s speed for SDS2k(X) is 140kwfm/s. Highest speed 60kwfm/s with same settings.But fastest speed exist with different t/div setting. SDS2k(X) highest speed is using 5ns/div and SDS1kX max speed exist with 50ns/div. There is more or less differencies if look different settings combinations but mostly SDS2k(X) is faster than SDS1kX. With some settings difference is marginal. Of course if we set 50ms/div and there is 750ms capture lenght in both. In this case of course difference is very minimal if any.Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amThis is not mistake. SDS2k(X) do not have 500uV/div sensitivity and SDS1kX have and it is not digital vertical zoom, it is real.Also in this forum you may find some tests etc.Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amIt slows wafm/s speed lot of. If I say "typical" (both models) is that with ERES wfm/s speed is always <25wfm/s and mostly something roughly like 10wfm/s. Also, maximum acquisition lenght using ERES is 14k. Eres is more hard process than "High-Res" in many scopes what use simple box car average.Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amYes, it works and can use but...it is far away what true audio work need. For this purpose - not for serious use.First thing where is drops out is frequency resolution what is really rough due to small amount of sample points used. Other thing is speed. It is slow. Third is dynamic range. This FFT can use to some very limited purposes only or just example in basic schools, kids can take lesson number one about what is FFT with it and play rest of lesson time in classroom before this lesson one hour ends. FFT is these scopes weakest point.But need note that of course from scope can get out raw sampledata and give it to example Matlab or what ever.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 08:48:28 am
content: Quote from: F5D on April 08, 2016, 05:51:09 amWelcome.QuoteLittle apparent difference, the GUI on each series is very similar.The predominant differences are at least double the sampling speed of the 2000X series, significantly more memory depth and faster update rates.QuoteNo mistake and in each case at full BW; ie. not BW limited at maximum sensitivity.The 1mV sensitivity range was added to the2000 series(previously 2mV BW limited) with release of the V2 FW some months back as a beta, but now officially adopted as "shipped" FW for 1000X, 2000 and 2000X series.QuoteWhy?Higher BW of the 2000X series will display moreapparentnoise.Check out Daves vids why:http://www.eevblog.org/video/EEVblog601-WhyDigitalScopesAppearNoisy-640x360.m4vhttp://www.eevblog.org/video/EEVblog610-WhyDigitalScopesAppearNoisyPart2-640x360.m4vQuoteMuch other information can be found in the below thread where the FW that was developed for the 2000X and 1000X series was also released for the 2000 series, the earlier HW version of the 2000X range.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/As there is not a lot ofrealinfo, (although plenty of conjecture) on the new 2000X range other than just these few on EEVblog that you've probably found already:https://www.eevblog.com/2016/03/31/eevblog-864-siglent-sds2000x-series-oscilloscope-teardown/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2000x-japan-review/Dave might add to these if he does a review on the 2304X that he did the teardown on. Let's hope he takes more care in any forthcoming review than he did for the 1000X.Much of the "in depth" analysis of these Siglent's has been done by rf-loop and Performa01, members that physically have these DSO's and have shared theirrealfindings.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 08:50:24 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 08, 2016, 08:07:37 amYes you had old version and at this time it was really bad. But repeating and repeating your feel from history... it looks like some kind of fixation to this your sad case so that all where read Siglent is like red flag for bull.Both models, current version of SDS2304 and SDS1202X-S is here on my table and every potential customer in Finland can come here and test himself as much as want before any deal. This is also what I always recommend before buy. Also here in Finland is customers who have these equipments and perhaps also they can tell what they thing after they have get some experience with these.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 09:40:49 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 08, 2016, 08:50:24 amI wouldn't consider December 2015 to be that old. And without evidence I find it very hard to believe that all the issues that have been in the scope for almost two years have been fixed by Siglent within the last four months.QuoteI don't know, tell me, but I'm not the one having a financial stake in selling Siglent gear. How is it when a product almost two years after it came to market is still ridden with bugs? You don't think that is a 'red flag'?And it's not that the SDS2000 was an exception, it was just particularly bad because it was Siglent's most complex product. But it wasn't the only Siglent product that was thrown to market with bugged firmware that take a long time to fix, and first impressions we read about the new SSA3000X spectrum analyzer suggest that this one also was rushed to market prematurely.QuoteWhich is why I recommended that if he decides to buy one that he can return it easily.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 10:47:12 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 08, 2016, 09:40:49 amNo need even return. Just come visit and test as much as want, even in some special cases possible to take this test unit to home and test more or come agen to continue testing. After then can make decision if want buy or not. It is so simple.Also same in China, if you are buying chicken, look this chicken so carefully that you really know if you want buy. If you suspect any bad, just do not buy. This works on the street in China and this works also in Finland.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 11:09:16 am
content: Still it is 2 former SDS2000 owners saying the SDS2000(X) is not worth the money versus 2 Siglent sellers who want to make money. Who's advice would you take?So far nobody has shown whether the decoding has been improved, CAN triggering works properly and that all the other problems and limitations have been fixed. For the last scope I bought I put together a lengthy test plan to make sure it works to my satisfaction:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-%28200mhz-4-channel-dso%29-review/This testing took me several hours and I have not even tested everything (like the search function). You can't go to a shop, turn a few knobs and determine whether an oscilloscope suits your needs or not. You need to use it for a couple of hours and test the sh*t out of every function.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 01:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2016, 11:09:16 amWhat money? Do you think whole world is money and only motivation is money. Least for me it takes more than give if I count money. So there need be some other reason. Can you ever think that whole world and all is not as you think or perhaps better say "believe". It do not matter anything if I sell one or not exept that I like Siglent company, also I like my customers. Also I like if I can give any help for do these equipments better, if I can give even small crumb to do these better I'm happy and it is enough for me. If this is germany or britan company I do not even think to do anything with them. But, this is pure original chinese good class company what also think other values than just money alone. I have been contact with many kind of chinese companies. But, many of them are total shit. Then there is some of these beautiful rough diamonds.Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2016, 11:09:16 amIf there can not, here can. And here is not "shop". Here can sit with equipments and do testings how ever need.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 01:39:29 pm
content: If Siglent is such a good company then why didn't they take my SDS2204 back and refund my money?Anyway that is besides the point. You can't just emphasize on a pretty picture on a screen and try to ignore what is not working or implemented half (checkbox features) because that is twisting the reality.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 03:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2016, 01:39:29 pmHow you can connect my words and your case with this phrase "...such good company". I have not said anything to do with your individual case with a Dutch seller. This you need ask from man in the middle there in Holland between you and Siglent.You can buy example from Batronix and you have free 30day return.http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2204X.htmlQuote from: Batronix web side

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 03:49:10 pm
content: But that doesn't help if you are at some fed up with waiting for Siglent for a promised firmware update which never comes. Worse, I had to buy a different oscilloscope to get my work done! Siglent could have stepped in to overrule the seller or make things right with me directly but they didn't.

author: pxl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 06:05:56 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 08, 2016, 08:25:43 am

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2016, 06:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 08, 2016, 11:09:16 amActually, I think there was another one in this forum, a long time ago, who sent his scope back because of the firmware bugs.QuoteThis, exactly!

author: papousek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2016, 03:34:59 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on April 03, 2016, 05:30:39 pmHi, Rf-Loop, did you received the SDS2000X new firmware? how do you value it?Received a notice to update the firmware just now, but i prefer to hear your comments.Tks.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2016, 10:05:21 am
content: Quote from: papousek on April 12, 2016, 03:34:59 amSorry, I do not have SDS2000X. I have SDS2000 (2304) for my tests.There is now update for SDS2000X and 1000X but update is not yet released for SDS2000

author: Smoking
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 07:12:48 pm
content: Dear Mr. ntcnico,Please tell every one the real story why Siglent.eu did not make a 100% refund.Because mr. ntcnico purchased a new unit on 18-8-2014 send a email on the 26-8-2014 he had a problem with installing a license that was fixed the same day. Then.... after almost 5 months !!!( 2-1-2015 ) mr. ntcnioce sends a email that he has some problems. He never contacted any one from Siglent.eu or Siglent in this 5 months time! What you did instead is writing on the eevblog about how bad you think the unit is.Mr ntcnico thinks the best way to solve his problem is not to contact the supplier or the manufacturer no the best way is first to write for months on the internet how frustrated he is and then after 5 months he contacts the supplier and demands a solution in 2 weeks or a complete refund.If you are not happy with your unit that is fine... your opinion!But do not tell lies about bad service or help if younever contact anyone of siglent.eu or siglentdirectly in that 5 months

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 07:19:09 pm
content: Better post under your real name than some alias!I knew new firmware would be released soon (hoping this new firmware would make the SDS2204 oscilloscope fully functional as specified) but when the new firmware arrived after waiting for several months AND it turned out the new firmware just put more limitations on the functionality rather than fixing problems AND didn't provide previously missing functionality I complained -ofcourse-. I have contacted Siglent.eu several times giving them all the opportunities to make things right. In one of their e-mails they basically told me to sod off because they or Siglent didn't like the review I wrote on EEVblog.

author: Smoking
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 07:47:34 pm
content: Mr. ntcnico,You lie again!You never ever contacted siglent.eu in those 5 months not once!!And yes I am from j. Rijnders from siglent.eu and I take great pride in giving good support. ( and yes I also make mistakes I am human )But telling lies about siglent.eu then you make it personal. If you have a complaint just tell me.If you told us directly ( and not after 5 months complaining on the internet without us knowing about any problem ) we made a full refund directly but you never ever contacted us in those 5 months.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 07:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: Smoking on April 14, 2016, 07:12:48 pmAnd you are? Right, obviously someone from siglent.eu I guess (as even Siglent staff has the courtesy to clearly state their affiliation).I don't know you, I don't know your business, and of course I don't know what really happened, but let me just say this: if there ever was any slightest doubt that nctnico's statements regarding siglent.eu were untrue or incorrect, even the slightest, your post certainly made sure that all doubts went away.Coming here, hiding your obvious affiliation with a large Siglent reseller, and then aggressively engaging a customer in public tells me more about siglent.eu than anything nctnico or someone else could say. Of course any business has the right to address complaints made in public, but this should be done in a professional, formal, open and courteous manner. You made it absolutely pretty clear that 'professional' and 'courteous' and not part of Siglent.EUs business practises, and considering how you do wash your dirty laundry in public, I'm horrified just by thinking how you must be handling customer complaints in less public setting.I guess the lesson here is if you want to buy Siglent kit then better avoid siglent.eu and take your business somewhere else.But hey, well done to tarnish siglent.eu's reputation more than any customer review or criticism could have done! That's is truly achievement!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 08:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: Smoking on April 14, 2016, 07:47:34 pmWell you clearly read the review and connected it to the right person. Should I have send it to you for proof reading first? Maybe you should have contacted me after reading the review to ask if I needed any further assistance? That would have been good service!As I wrote before I have waited for several months so Siglent could get their firmware together so yes it took a while for me to contact you but that doesn't mean I was happy or satisfied with the Siglent product you sold me.Anyway, when I get home I'll dig up the e-mails I send to you and the ones I have received from you and post them here so everybody can decide for themselves and be sure about the time line because I have also been in contact with Siglent about the problems (thanks to Tautech and Siglent America).

author: Smoking
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 08:39:10 pm
content: Hi ntcnico,got all the emails and date's here :9-8-2014 17:5711-8-2014 11:4812-8-2014 14:1716-8-2014 23:3718-8-2014 12:5118-8-2014 14:5418-8-2014 15:4125-8-2014 17:5626-8-2014 18:4926-8-2014 16:15 in this email you tell that you installed the license key correctly ( nothing about any big problems )2-1-2015 14:53 this is the first email you tell me about the problems!!2-1-2015 17:2921-1-2015 17:0421-1-2015 18:09Why do you keep telling you have contacted me by email between 26-8-2014 and 2-1-2015?I do not understand why you keep telling that we did not give any support.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2016, 09:03:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 14, 2016, 07:48:25 pmAnd whom might you be referring to?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 04:56:01 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 14, 2016, 09:03:07 pmThe official Siglent account here on the forum. Of course that's not to say there aren't any sock puppets but it doesn't look to be the case.And as to sellers there's you and rf-loop, and you both clearly show your affiliation as Siglent resellers. How it should be.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 11:31:49 am
content: Quote from: Smoking on April 14, 2016, 07:47:34 pmAs promised I dug up the e-mails. As it turns out I complained about the functionality immediately after receiving the oscilloscope.E-mail from me send on 25 Aug 2014J.,Ik heb de SDS2204 ontvangen en er even mee zitten spelen. Ik heb gemerkt dat er toch best nog wel een paar bugs in zitten en dat in tegenstelling tot wat ik eerder heb gelezen het decoderen van protocollen niet werkt op de digitale kanalen. Ook de peak-detect mode doet niet wat ik ervan verwacht. Ik moet nog even nadenken of dat iets is waar ik mee kan leven of niet.Verder lijkt het erop dat de 'keys' voor de MSO en decodeeropties niet geinstalleerd zijn. De status ervan staat nog op trial. Het serienummer en ID zijn:Serial: xxxxxxxxxxxxID: xxxxxxxxxxxxIn this e-mail which I wrote right after receiving the SDS2204 I state that I found that decoding didn't work on digital channels and peak-detect isn't working correctly and that I'm thinking about whether I can live with these short comings or not. Furthermore a license appeared to be missing. The problem with the license got sorted after a few e-mails.E-mail from me send on 2 Jan 2015 14:53J.,Ik heb in augustus 2014 een Siglent SDS2204 bij jullie gekocht. Destijds was de firmware duidelijk nog niet af (bugs en functies die in de documentatie staan maar niet of gedeeltelijk zijn geimplementeerd) en zaten er behoorlijk wat bugs in de software van de oscilloscoop. Ik heb afgewacht tot Siglent een nieuwe firmware versie zou uitbrengen die de bugs en ontbrekende functionaliteiten zou oplossen. Inmiddels heeft Siglent een aantal dagen geleden versie 1.1.37.2 uitgebracht maar die firmware is nog steeds niet op een niveau dat voor mij acceptabel is. Ik heb een opsomming gemaakt van de punten waar ik tegenaan ben gelopen:- High resolution mode afwezig- Averaging signaal weg in 'stop stand'; niet bruikbaar want hoe moet je dan met de cursors een meting doen?- Protocol decoding decodeert alleen wat er op het scherm staat. Inzoomen op berichten in een stroom van berichten werkt daardoor niet en tevens is de zoomfunctie niet beschikbaar tijdens het decoderen. Dit maakt de protocol decoding praktisch niet bruikbaar.- Protocol decoding werkt niet op de digitale kanalen; Siglent heeft mij toegezegd dat dit wel kan en het is 1 van de primaire redenen geweest voor de aanschaf van de SDS2204.- FFT is niet bruikbaar zonder post-processing zoals averaging- De cursors werken onhandig (wisselen sinds versie 1.1.37.2 tussen 1,2, beide verticaal en dan 1,2, beide horizontaal)- Geen measurements tijdens decoding- Bij het bekijken van digitale signalen is er geen zoom functie- Peak-detect werkt niet in roll-mode- Remote besturen / SCPI werkt niet over LAN (de netwerk aansluiting is dus onbruikbaar)- De kleuren v/d kanalen worden soms allemaal geel. Wisselen tussen verschillende modi lost dat na een tijdje op.- In het algemeen zijn functies beperkt samen te gebruiken (bijvoorbeeld zoom & digitaal, zoom & protocol decoding, measurements & digitaal, measurements & decoding)Er zit zo'n 5 maanden tussen versie 1.1.35.1 en 1.1.37.2 maar de verschillen zijn minimaal. De bug in de zoomfunctie in combinatie met de digitale signalen (versie 1.1.35.1) is bijvoorbeeld opgelost door de zoomfunctie voor digitale signalen maar helemaal uit te schakelen. Dat is natuurlijk geen oplossing!Ik ben momenteel offertes aan het opvragen voor een andere oscilloscoop want ik neig er sterk naar de SDS2204 terug te sturen. Er ontbreekt gewoon teveel aan en ik zie niet dat Siglent op korte termijn een firmware versie uit gaat brengen die alle tekortkomingen oplost.I send this e-mail to Mr Rijnders a few days after Siglent released a new firmware version for the SDS2204. Because this new firmware release did not make the oscilloscope functional I send a detailed list with problems and stated that the functionality level of the SDS2204 was not acceptable to me and I was thinking about sending it back.E-mail received from Mr. Rijnders on 2 Jan 2015 14:53Hoi N.,we vinden het vervelend om te horen dat u zo veel problemen heeft.U bent trouwens wel de enige tot nu toe dit meld we krijgen eigenlijk heel veel goede reacties.Ik zal met Siglent even overleggen wat we voor u kunnen betekenen.We zullen uw bevindingen voor leggen aan engineering en komen hier op terug.PS. Wij vinden het wel zo netjes dat klanten eerst ons op de hoogte stellen van eventuele problemen zo dat wij de kans hebben om problemen op te lossen.Het EEVBLOG vol zetten met :All in all I think I can stick with my earlier conclusion: DON'T BUY! My new year's resolution is to get an Agilent/Keysight oscilloscope in 2015!Dit helpt niet met onze coulance!In this e-mail Mr. Rijnders says he will forward my complaints to Siglent and get back to me. But he also makes it very clear he is not happy with the review I wrote about the SDS2204 and that that review may affect their effort to help me.E-mail from me send on 2 Jan 2015 17:29J.,Bedankt voor je snelle reactie.Als je op EEVblog kijkt/leest dan zie je dat er een aantal mensen zijn die een SDS2000 hebben geprobeerd en teleurgested hebben teruggestuurd omdat het apparaat er op papier ontzettend goed uitziet. Ik vind van mezelf dat ik een gebalanceerde review heb geschreven; echter ik kan een SDS2000 oscilloscoop niet met droge ogen aan iemand aanbevelen. Dat Dave Jones (de eigenaar van EEVblog) -voor zover ik weet- zelf nog geen SDS2000 heeft gekregen ter beoordeling geeft ook al enigzins te denken.Natuurlijk speelt ook een stukje emotie mee; dat er na 5 maanden tijd zo weinig vooruitgang is geboekt heeft mij enorm teleurgesteld. Zoals je op EEVblog hebt kunnen lezen was ik na aanschaf al niet zo positief en speelde ik toen al met de gedachte om de oscilloscoop terug te sturen. Ik heb toen besloten om eerst een nieuwe firmware versie af te wachten. Ik weet dat Siglent zelf en diverse andere Siglent distributeurs meelezen. De problemen zijn dus bekend bij Siglent en ik denk dat er vanuit de distributeurs flink wat druk op Siglent wordt uitgeoefend om de problemen op te lossen. Siglent heeft in de tussentijd echter diverse andere meetinstrumenten op de markt gebracht en ook alweer een nieuwe oscilloscoop laten zien op een beurs in Munchen. Het heeft er alle schijn van dat de SDS2000 niet de hoogste prioriteit heeft.Ik ben nog steeds van mening dat wanneer Siglent de pijnpunten oplost de SDS2000 een echte game-changer in oscilloscoop land kan zijn. Waarom ze e.e.a. niet voortvarender aanpakken is mij een compleet raadsel. Wellicht willen ze niet in het vaarwater van de SDS3000 c.q. Lecroy's Wavesurfer 3000 gaan zitten of is het toch te hoog gegrepen voor hun software ontwikkelaars.Anyway; Ik heb bewust even de tijd genomen om mijn emoties te laten bedaren, e.e.a. goed op een rij te zetten en informatie te verzamelen om een weloverwogen besluit te nemen. Het uitgangspunt daarbij is dat de SDS2000 zoals die nu is niet voorziet in de (beloofde) functionaliteit die ik nodig heb. Dat kan ik niet zo laten want daar loop ik op een gegeven moment tegenaan.Ik sta open voor alternatieve oplossingen en laat me graag verassen maar mijn vertrouwen in Siglent (voor alle duidelijkheid: de frabrikant) is momenteel erg verdeeld.In this e-mail I explain why I waited for the new firmware to give Siglent a chance to get the firmware in order but that my time to wait had run out. I needed the oscilloscope to work as promised. In my last sentence I wrote I'm open to any solution.E-mail from me send on 21 Jan 2015 17:05J.,Ik ben even benieuwd of je nog iets verder bent gekomen met Siglent.After not hearing anything from Mr. Rijnders for almost three weeks I decided to ask him how things where progressing.E-mail from Mr. Rijnders send on 21 Jan 2015 17:29Beste N.,Ik heb je lijst doorgeven aan Siglent. Ik wacht hun reactie en commentaar af.Maar ik moet je zeggen dat ze niet blij zijn met je manier van communiceren.Een credit gaat hem niet worden.Ik snap ook niet waarom je niet eerder en direct naar ons bent gekomen maar een forum uitkiest ( waar wij adverteren ) waar je mensen adviseert om niet de SDS2000 te kopen.Wij krijgen eigenlijk alleen maar goede reacties. We moeten ook geen appels met peren gaan vergelijken en elke scoop / merk heeft wel zijn voor en nadelen.Kun je even aangeven welke versie firmware je nu draait. Dit is mij niet helemaal duidelijk.In this e-mail Mr Rijnders writes that he forwarded my list with problems to Siglent and is waiting for their comments. He also states Siglent isn't happy with my review and therefore has decided not to take the SDS2204 back. Furthermore he states he only gets positive reactions on the SDS2204 and that every piece of test equipment has it's issues. Finally Mr. Rijnders wants to know which firmware version I'm using.E-mail from me send on 21 Jan 2015 18:09J.,Ik heb versie 1.1.37.2 in de oscilloscoop.Dat Siglent niet blij is hebben ze naar mijn mening grotendeels aan hunzelf te danken. Zij brengen immers een product uit dat nog niet af is. Dan moeten ze niet gaan klagen dat mensen op een forum gaan posten dat er nog dingen ontbreken. Daar is niets van gelogen en ik ben niet de enige! Het feit is en blijft dat het apparaat niet doet wat is belooft en wat mij betreft moet het zonder morren worden teruggenomen.In this e-mail I wrote that Siglent has to thank themselves for my negative review because the oscilloscope's firmware simply isn't finished. Either way the fact is that I got a product which doesn't meet it's specifications and it should be taken back without hesitation.After this e-mail I never heard or read anything from Mr Rijnders again (at least not until the forum posting above where he addressed me directly) and it was clear to me he didn't want to make things right. At that time I decided not to push any further because the time, effort & money I (likely) had to put into getting my money back would exceed the amount of money lost (lawyer expenses add up quickly).

author: papousek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2016, 09:42:14 am
content: i bought a 2104X today, it seems pretty so far,,does any one have any experience to hack Siglemt product? my SDG1025's latest new FM also indicate a option for higher frequency. i would appreciate if anyone give me some ideas

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2016, 09:35:46 pm
content: Quote from: papousek on April 18, 2016, 09:42:14 amSiglent have been adding BW upgrade capability in FW to many of their devices but to date they've not offered purchasable upgrades. However by doing this it does indicate BW can be upgraded by FW and AFAIK only the SDG2000X range AWG has been hacked, you can read about it in the SDG2042X thread, ~p6 IIRC.We look forward to your feedback on your new 2104X.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 12:13:06 am
content: Siglent.eu is not the official Siglent.That might explain why there is no good will.Maybe better to go for a bigger distributor that actually cares about its customers.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 12:25:00 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on April 19, 2016, 12:13:06 amCorrect but AFAIK they had a EU presence before Siglent opened their Hamburg branch and they are an authorised Siglent dealer trading as JR Special Electronics.http://www.siglenteu.com/howtobuy.aspx

author: Smoking
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 06:43:32 am
content: Hi Mr. ntcnico,You just proved you lied about contacting us in those 5 months.In the email you on the 25th you talk about that you found a "bug" and no word about major problems... until 5 months laterAlso your last email in 2014 is this and you donot write about any problem at all.26-08-2014 : 16:49Bedankt! Ik zie het probleem nu. Ik moet eerst kiezen wat voor licentie het is. Ik had verwacht dat dat ook in de key gecodeerd zou zijn; meestal is dat namelijk wel het geval.Thanks! I see the problem now. I must first choose what license it is. I expected that would be also encoded in the key; usually that is precisely the case.So what is your point of bad service?Your just frustrated you made the wrong decision in the past in how you should deal with the problem.If you did the normal way ( communicating to me directly ) we had helped you without a doubt.To conclude and I will not reply after this because there will always be a customer that will be unsatisfied no mater what we do.In your writing on this blog I can see you know a lot about electronics and show you have a high intelligence but you do have a problem with communicating and you let your frustrations take the overhand.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 10:46:20 am
content: Quote from: Smoking on April 19, 2016, 06:43:32 amPlease point me to where I lied about contacting you somewhere between receiving the scope and Januari 2015? I never wrote that anywhere so that is just a fantasy in your head.And now you are complaining that I should have bought a different product?That is rich! You should have taken the SDS2204 back in Januari 2015 without questions asked because the oscilloscope clearly did not meet it's specifications. There is no way that can be denied because there where too many flaws and missing functions in it to meet it's specification and/or be useful at all. You should have known too that the firmware wasn't ready when I bought it so if I had complained then you would undoubtely have told me to just wait for the next firmware release.And sometimes it just happens customers complain after a longer period. Every now and then that happens to me too because customers start testing a design after 6 months or more and find an issue or want something changed. I myself buy test equipment long before I actually need it for an upcoming project so problems could stay hidden to me. All in all it is not out of the ordinary to get a (serious) complaint after almost 5 months.Good customer service is knowing when you sold a lemon for an orange and you should take the product back in order to keep the customer (happy) even though you may not like some aspects of your customers. Please take a course in how to deal with customers (I have besides over 25 years of experience in dealing with customers) and you'll learn that going on the defense is the worst thing to do because it just makes you lose customers and give a bad reputation. Every now and then I do have a decent budget for test equipment or have to buy/recommend test equipment for my customers. If you would have taken the SDS2204 back (or bought it back for a slightly lesser amount) you would not have lost any money and kept me as a customer. How can that not be a win-win for you? A good business man knows that sometimes you need to give in a little in order to gain more. Oh, and rule number one ofcourse: the customer is always right. Rule numbers 2 through 100: see rule number one. Rule 101: if you see things the customer's way you'll also see ways to make money from that customer.Sure I'll admit my mistake was not to send the SDS2204 back immediately. I already owned a Siglent SDG1010 function generator (and still do) and that worked out right of the box. I just never imagened Siglent would have such a hard time to get the SDS2204 firmware in a state where it was acceptable. Unfortunately it ended up with me getting screwed because I gave you and Siglent almost 5 months to make the SDS2204 work properly.And be sure I learned from this misadventure! When I bought a GW Instek GDS2204E oscilloscope a couple of months ago I tested the sh*t out of it before deciding to keep it.

author: rob-from-perth
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 01:36:54 pm
content: First a disclaimer, I have nothing to do with either party here, I was reading this thread as a person interested in purchasing an oscilloscope.Also I've been told I should be a more active participant on these forums.. HA!The art of good customer service is to turn an enemy into a friend.I've been an advocate for various companies over the years and my greatest pleasure has always been to turn someone that'had it in' for my organisation. By talking to them and understanding their issues, it was by far the best way to get them on side.I have turned the most venomous customers into powerful advocates for the businesses I've worked for.Reading some of ntnico's earlier posts, he was already strongly advocating for Siglent. Until he had issues which it appears werenever really heard.Username: Smoking who claims to be aSiglnet Rep/EmployeeEU Distributor, if it was my company you'd no longer be employed.It doesn't make any difference if ntnico is telling the truth or stretching it. He paid money to your company to purchase aproduct in good faith. He effectively helped pay for your salary and your R&D research and gave his hard earned money up toyour organisation. Customers no matter how difficult should never be insulted the way you have insulted him on these forums.Yes he has a strong opinion, yes he publishes what he believes to be factual information. These things are his truth and they have value.You have shown that Siglent doesn't give a damn because he posted some negative commentary. Any intelligent person will read that commentaryand then form their own opinions. nctnico should not be punished for giving this information, but valued. Because if he is right, he has justshown Siglent how to improve their product, something a fleet of engineers seemingly couldn't do. If he is wrong, then make the productwork more intelligently or easier to understand. Often thats where the biggest misunderstandings are, in operational use.I believe Siglent still should be doing everything possible to help him, even 5-6 months later. Instead of abandoning him. a $3000 (guessing thats roughly the price), is a dropin the ocean for a large chinese manufacturer that is pushing out thousands of units per month/year. The goodwill lost on these forums could ultimately cost millions.Any time a customer of mine has been unhappy for any reason, I've always been quick to refund them, exchange the item, or upgrade them to a better model.Yes it costs me money and I am only a small when you compare my annual turnover to Siglnet, but it seems my support is superior. I sleep easy at night knowing I've done my best to help someone when they felt thatthey didn't get good value for money.Why do I care about this? I've been looking to purchase a new scope myself. The SDS2000X looks right up my alley in terms of features and performance.BUT after seeing the way a customer is treated that has a grievance, I am not so sure I'd look at purchasing that scope. I don't want to fight with an account rep to beheard if I have a problem. In another thread seeing how the Keysight/Agilent rep has chimed in to help people understand a problem / bug , has greatly impressed me.That is customer service.Name calling behind your nickname on an internet forum (talking to you Smoking) is just atrocious behaviour. I hope you get banned or suspended until you learn some manners.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 02:37:45 pm
content: Thank you for your comments.This person is not a Siglent employee. I believe they are a European distributor but I am checking on this from my end. Regardless of what the customer may or may not have done, we want to always take the high road.Our European website is located atwww.SiglentEU.comThanks again.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 05:48:36 pm
content: @ Rob from PerthNice summary but what you aren't aware of is the time and effort behind the scenes that was taken to address the problems Nico was having, even by myself from the other side of the world.That we couldn't get his DSO FW to a state that satisfied Nico at that time was disappointing and Siglent themselves acknowledged that with apartial refundfinancial consideration.Why he has continued to bag many Siglent products when great effort was taken in an attempt to rectify his issues......well, I'm not sure.EditCorrection of fact.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 06:17:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 19, 2016, 05:48:36 pmI'm aware of your efforts and I'm grateful for them but ultimately they did not result in Siglent making any progress with the firmware development and getting the SDS2000 firmware in a usefull state. The firmware of December 2014 had the following issues:- High resolution mode absent- The averaged signal (thin trace) dissapears in 'stop mode' and gets replaced by a 'furry' non-averaged trace; not useful because it doesn't allow to freeze an averaged signal and do measurements with the cursors.- Protocol decoding only decodes what is on screen. Zooming in on a stream of messages by changing the timebase doesn't work and the zoom function is disabled. This makes protocol decoding practically useless for looking at malformed 'bits' and/or zooming in on parts of a message.- Protocol decoding doesn't work on digital channels. Having protocol decoding on digital channels was one of the reasons for me to buy the SDS2204 (someone from Siglent confirmed decoding would work on digital channels on EEVblog).- FFT is not useful without post-processing like averaging to clean up the signal. Also 1024 points are not enough.- The cursors work terrible in version 1.1.37.2 (they go through the sequence of x1, x2, x1+x2, y1, y2, y1+y2).- No measurements while decoding- No zoom for digital signals- Peak-detect doesn't work in roll mode- SCPI over LAN doesn't work which makes the LAN connection useless. I tried sending commands over the LAN but the oscilloscope doesn't respond to commands requesting waveform data.- Sometimes the colors of the 4 analog channels all turn yellow. Changing modes eventually fixes that.- CAN triggering on message ID not working- Over all the functions are hard to combine like zoom & digital, zoom & protocol decoding, measurements & digital, measurements & decoding, etc.QuoteSorry but I didn't get a partial refund! Just a key for the signal generator option which I accepted in order to increase the potential resale value (which it didn't; I couldn't even get half of what I paid for it!). Anyway I needed a working oscilloscope in Januari 2015 and it turned out the SDS2204 was not going to be in a useful state anytime soon at that moment so I had to buy a different oscilloscope to get my work done. It is simple as that. Worse, the SDS2204 wasn't even useful as a bring-to-customers scope either so I had to buy another scope for that purpose as well.I have had extensive contact with Siglent trying to explain to them what the problems where and they told me they aim towards a 6 month release cycle for the firmware but it ended up taking about 16 months from December 2014 until now to get to a somewhat decent level assuming the firmware Siglent released a short while ago makes the SDS2000 (finally) deliver on it's specifications. All in all you can't really expect people to buy an oscilloscope and wait for about 20 months (August 2014 to April 2016) for it to have all the specified functions -more or less- working?Again I reallyreallydo appreciate your efforts to help me and Siglent should be really gratefull to have you as a dealer but there is no denying that Siglent put a product in the market which did not work according to the promised functions and they where not able to fix it within a reasonable timeframe.edit: typo

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 06:29:04 pm
content: - Protocol decoding doesn't work on digital channels. Having protocol decoding on digital channels was one of the reasons for me to buy the SDS2204Jesus christ. what's the point in having digital channels then?

author: rob-from-perth
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 12:51:16 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 19, 2016, 05:48:36 pmThis is the opportunity part. Where nctnico can be turned into a friend, instead of being in the enemy camp.His passion for electronics and products seems obvious.So put him in the beta program. Send him beta samples, get him to test it and report on it. Get his changes implemented.Give him a direct line into the engineering department. Engineers love to fix things and by direct access to customers withpassion, they stand a much better chance of building a better product.This will redirect his animosity and put it towards something far more useful, better products for everyone.I watched Dave's video where he speaks to the Siglent CEO. He said a third of (or was it half) their work force is R&D / Engineers.That is awesome, but if they are out of touch with customer needs, then what's the point?One company I worked for I had to constantly remind our R&D team, we are making products for customers, not for ourselves.The products where we had deep beta programs going and took on and processed all the feedback were amongst the most successful.Companies need to not fear spending money in this way. If Siglent want to dominate, or even just have a better chance in this section of the market, then they need totalk to and listen to their customers in this section of the market.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 06:22:47 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on April 19, 2016, 06:29:04 pmWhich FW are you using?Please see this post where Performa01 tests MSO decoding with an earlier FW:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/msg835171/#msg835171And with the latest FW, rf-loops comments:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000-new-v2-firmware/msg918937/#msg918937

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 06:43:07 am
content: Quote from: rob-from-perth on April 20, 2016, 12:51:16 amI get all this ^^^^ and we sing from the same song sheetbut there will always be some that don't want to engage to that degree. Then there's some that recognise the possibilities of the SDS2000 series (and others) and can't do enough, this is what's happening behind the scenes ATM.The scenario you propose is much how I'd like to move forward (and I've proposed such) but with the knowledge Siglent has made good progress with all of their FW especially in the last year and with thanks to 2 more branches, more beta testers and the constructive feedback from many members of this forum I hope we can look back and know the recent past were trying times for us all.In the few short years I've been a distributor, Siglent now has much closer dealings with the end user of their products and I'd like to think that can improve further.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 09:19:17 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 19, 2016, 06:17:51 pmFinancial consideration is what I was told, not mention of a free option so thanks for clearing that up.My mistake, sorry Nico.

author: salviador
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 01:01:50 pm
content: I just buy this mso , I am quite satisfied.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2016, 12:34:32 am
content: Latest FW see this post for links:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/msg972331/#msg972331