Need Advice: Suicidal lab employee vs Fluke HV source - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 04:05:41 pm
content: Hello Folks,now I need some advice from the quorum. One of my employees - a diligent office worker who also does some basic electronics work (keep the decades in order, sort components and stuff) is known to be suicidal when angered or when wanting to whore attention - in fact, she once tried to vault off our old office's balcony if I didnt manage to restrain her in time (15m high).Now, as seen in the BSW thread on the Auction, I am the proud owner of a Fluke 3000V 30mA power source which, um, can kill you dead. I urgently need it for my process computer project, do to the Human Body Equivalent tests. This means that I will need it once every six months or so at maximum.Now, my question is - do you guys have any idea to solve my problem?P.S. Firing the suicidal lab hand is not an option for moral reasons.P.S.2 This is not a joke. I am willing to provide Dave with proof documents.Edit to add poll.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 04:25:47 pm
content: I'm voting for keyed access.You have a moral, and in most places a legal, duty for the safety of your employees. If you have something hazardous in your workplace it's your duty to make sure that employees don't harm themselves with it. Normally you can do this just by instructing people in the dangers involved and insisting that only properly qualified folks are required or permitted work with the hazardous items but it isalsoyour duty to enforce those provisions. If you can't enforce them adequately by instruction them you must enforce them by technical means (e.g. keys and locks). Certainly under UK health and safety legislation you can be prosecuted for failing to adequately enforce safe working practices (e.g. It's not enough to just tell your staff NOT to do something, you must also make sure that they don't.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 04:33:09 pm
content: You might want a camera system for liability reasons.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 04:47:06 pm
content: believe me she is not suicidal, she just wants attention. People who do suicide dont say anything to anyone.Anyway Id go for the keyswitch.So your not selling it ??For hbm just charge a capacitor with a magiclick no need to be that precise

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 04:56:10 pm
content: Your problem is easy, you treat that worker like a five year old girl.You put the power supply behind Lock and Key and You keep the Key.Nobody but you has access to it, you do not leave it unattended.It is really that simple.

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 05:54:24 pm
content: My first thought is to put a big red DANGER label on it. Something like: DANGER, FOR USE BY AUTHORIZED PERSONNAL ONLY. Adults are expected to have a brain or two in their heads. I can't believe that any court would find you responsible for injury to an adult that ignored a sign like that. If you really want to get the employee's attention, the sign should say that they'll be fired if they touch it without authorization.If that's not acceptable, then I'd modify the unit to include a key switch and keep the keys under close control. The locked door is another possibility if you can keep her out of the room, but if it's in the lab you probably don't want to have to pull the power supply out of the locked room every time you want to use it.Ed

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 05:58:57 pm
content: Put the fuse in a locked cabinet/drawer.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:02:23 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on July 28, 2016, 04:47:06 pmSorry, that's a pile of crap. At best it's ignorant, at worst it's a bloody dangerous myth to propagate.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:04:58 pm
content: If she is really serious she will find a thousand ways to commit suicide, she doesn't need no Fluke HV supply for thatvote ("nothing");

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on July 28, 2016, 06:02:23 pmActually you are the ignorant (at best), and there's nothing to propagate here.Many people who commit suicide do so without letting on they are thinking about it or planning it,” says Dr. Michael Miller, assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.At best people who are suicidal give "hints" but they don't openly say it.http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/suicide-often-not-preceded-by-warnings-201209245331

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:25:21 pm
content: QuoteI for curiosity i had left her to jumpYou have a huge problem with this worker, and the problem is that the others employees will follow her.QuoteWhy can you fire her ?And Why didn't you call to police or medical when she tried to suicide?You have two solutions: you fire to her or you request to Job Ministery* or to SS* an psychiatric evaluation for her* i don't know the laboral legislation on his country

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on July 28, 2016, 06:14:18 pmAnd suicide is often preceded by warnings and discussion, so your initial assertion that people who talk about it aren't going to do it is crap.Please don't make sweeping generalisations about something so serious, I have lost one close friend and a relative to suicide, both of whom had talked openly about it and been in counseling.It is a myth that people who talk about and threaten suicide don't do it.Some do.Some do it by accident when they go too far in their attention seeking but they are still just as dead.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 06:59:46 pm
content: I agree with the collective suggestions:- Use a key (or keys) that protect the equipment from unauthorized use- Use a camera to identify potential unauthorized use of the equipment.- Label the surrounding area appropriately:- Danger and high voltage signs that match your department of labor and/or safety guidelines- Labels that state only authorized personnel can operate the machine under penalty of termination. I would make sure to leave a contact e-mail if a person needs access (never a phone, but a traceable e-mail).- Labels that state tampering with the protection mechanism is void under penalty of termination.- Labels that state the area is under surveillance 24/7Perhaps I forgot something, but I would definitely cover the bases with the stuff above (maybe I have been living in the US for too long...)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 07:20:07 pm
content: Ignoring the sad human aspect to this, do you really think a suicidal person is going to choose a HV power supply to do the deed? Are you going to put anti tamper (childproof) devices on all your electrical outlets? There's a gazillion ways to do oneself in. I would not worry about it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 08:37:38 pm
content: Like others already pointed out: there are many ways to end one's life so being overly worried about a HV power supply isn't going to help the bigger issue. After all you can't ban certain songs from R Kelly from the radioStill I'd keep such a dangerous piece of equipment disconnected in a cabinet.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 09:06:05 pm
content: Hi,I would consider some modifications to the power supply.1) Replace the on/off toggle switch with a key switch and hiding the key.2) Adding a high value series resistor inside the unit. For the HBM testing you have to charge a 100pF capacitor.A 100 Meg resistor gives you a 10ms time constant, and limits the current to 3kV/100E6 = 30uA (which is probably safe).This would also protect you from accidental contact.3) Make sure you have warning labels on the equipment like:qualified people onlyAt one place I worked we had a 'lone worker rule'. You needed to have buddy qualified in CPR in sight and sound of you for some operations.Jay_Diddy_B

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 09:09:28 pm
content: My two cents.Forget the high voltage power supply. Your company needs a good psychologist and a good lawyer.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 09:24:02 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 29, 1974, 09:45:47 pmWould 'adequate enforcement' really extend to the OP's situation? If the intent is to self-harm or suicide then that is beyond safeworkingpractices and into wilful freestyle abuse of equipment.There certainly is a responsibility to all in the lab (employees, visitors, cleaning contractors etc.) to make sure this new piece of kit can't harm anyone by accident, but treating this person differently doesn't make sense to me.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 09:34:16 pm
content: I voted for the key option.I'm somewhat amazed the PSU already doesn't have one if it's really that dangerous.I mean, laser equipment often has key interlocks, and what will do that.. only make you blind for the rest of your (then) miserable life?I wouldn't store it away in some private location; because one day you will figure out you need it but it's not around. OTOH if you only use it for planned tests, you'll likely know when it's going to be used.However a key should allow anyone being a tad silly ("Ooh, what does this button do?" - Dexter's lab) being hurt.Anyhow, also consult a doctor to let her see a psychologist. There is plenty of cognitive therapy and medication available for people that go suicidal when their present state of mind is not that good. Imho that's a skill one can enjoy for life.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 09:37:05 pm
content: It doesn't have an interlock ... it does have a fuse. A wirecutter turns any piece of wiring into an electrocution device in a couple of seconds. Just making it impossible to turn it on impulsively and grab the terminals should be enough.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:11:29 pm
content: to my opinion this thread talking about interlocks and the like doesn't address the real problem: either she needs help (if she really is suicidal) or she needs to be fired (if she is using it to manipulate you).In the first case, if she attempts to commit suicide, I would call the police and let them hospitalize her in a psychiatry. These people can handle such a situation, you probably cannot and you also certainly do not want to experience the case when she really succeeds with her intent. You will maybe have to live feeling guilty from that day on.In both cases, she will get separated from your HV source.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:23:34 pm
content: I don't understand the fuss about the HV power supply. Yes, at 3KV (...but only 30mA...) it is dangerous if abused. But so are any regular mains outlets, imho even more because these are able to deliver a lot more current... So why are you worrying about the Fluke but not about your mains outlets? Or the box cutters? I don't know what her problem is but the best you could do is to get her professional help asap

author: bollio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:24:33 pm
content: It's not your responsibility. There's a million less intimidating ways for her to kill herself on company property or with company property... Why only focus on the one trivial hv power supply? Are you going to go to her house and shut off the mains too?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:28:13 pm
content: Fire her! There's no reason for her problem to become your problem.What about other employees? What if she decides to take some along for the ride? You actually owe them a safe work environment.Check with someone knowledgeable in labor relations for your country with the intent to get rid of her.

author: bollio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:29:20 pm
content: Quote from: Augustus on July 28, 2016, 10:23:34 pmI like the way you think... LolIs there such a thing as jinx on the eevblog?

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on July 28, 2016, 06:14:18 pmMany people!=All peopleMy own sister was suicidal and after announcing it to the family a few days later drove herself into a tree at high speeds, she survived, but the fire rescue when they arrived at the scene didn't know how since she had been mangled so badly.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:38:42 pm
content: Hello Folks,what can I say. Thank you, first of all, for all the feedback.First of all, some generic things. a) I absolutely do not believe in Psychoanalysis and believe, in fact, that Psychoanalysts are harmful charlatans. Delivering someone to a psychoanalyst is something I would _never_ do - I would rather if my employee dies in a suicide, than to be tortured for years. I could write more here, but do not to protect Dave from legal repercussions. But I will gladly discuss this via email.b) Firing her is out of the question. I hired her knowing about her problems, and she is very loyal. So I see no problem to keep her on team: shenevergoes after others. I know how bitter it is to get backstabbed, and will never do that to the mine.So, to cut a long story short. Interlocks, it will be. Now the main question is how to shoehorn it into the Fluke 415B...I will report on that problem when I have the unit! My main issue is: my standard lock is a bulletproof kaba (have that one even on my toilet door) - now I need to think about a way how to make the Kaba control the PSU.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 10:54:26 pm
content: I wouldn't modify equipment. It makes selling it more difficult and what if you lose the key and need it? You might do a quick bodge to circumvent your own lock and make the equipment more dangerous than safer. Better keep it in a locked cabinet.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 11:13:52 pm
content: Remove the mains fuse so the device will not be operable without it. Keep the device in a locked cabinet.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 11:35:22 pm
content: When Fluke 415B is stored in a locked cabinet, there is no danger.Why would she want to kill herself with a 3kV PSU when she can use a mains socket or jump from a window? Is 3kV 30mA so much dangerous when you just touch it with your hand accidentaly? I believe you will get your skin burned. You would have to hold the 3kV output for a longer time to get electrocuted.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2016, 11:50:22 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 28, 2016, 10:38:42 pmOkay, I'll take the bait...Psychiatrists (and psychologists) are certainly not charlatans... As with all professions, some are better than others; there's also the matter of personal fit, not every doctor is right for every patient.On top of that, dealing with the psyche is not an exact science, but that doesn't mean they don't help people. They certainly do.But to call it torture and say you wish your employee would kill herself before seeing a mental health professional, that shows how much you really know, and how much compassion you really have.In fact, if you *really* believed that, then you would *help* her kill herself!People that commit suicide do so because they're already being tortured. Depression and anxiety can cause real physical pain, to the point that you'll do anything to make it stop. That sounds like torture to me. (And that's just plain depression! Things like bipolar and Schizoaffective disorders can be much, much worse.)A person who commits suicide creates a shockwave of devastation around them and can literally ruin others lives for years to come. (And I've experienced this first hand, after my uncle's suicide when I was 16... People are never the same afterwards.)I can also tell you first hand that seeing a psychiatrist isn't torture. When I was younger, I always felt like it was a bunch of crap. After all, I'm a smart guy, right? Why do I need to go talk to some shrink for hours, just to have him tell me some Freudian nonsense, right?Well, it really doesn't work like that (at least with a good psychiatrist). It's all about having a neutral third party that you can be brutally honest with, who can then help you figure out why you do what you do, feel what you feel and how to deal with those feelings in a constructive manner, instead of self-destructively. (Be it drugs, alcohol, attention seeking, whatever.)So, you're really doing your employee a disservice. Don't make her pay (with her life) just because you have backwards personal feelings towards the mental health profession. Also keep in mind that, because of your opinions, you could actually be held liable if she does kill herself under your watch. (You recognized she was suicidal and yet did nothing, because you don't believe in shrinks. That opens you up to a civil suit at the very least and possibly even criminal liability depending on your jurisdiction [reckless disregard for human life].)

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 12:06:15 am
content: Organizing her professional help is not backstabbing her but instead helping her. Your relation to psychology shocks me.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 12:15:54 am
content: I voted for the key switch. Seems like a smart and simple enough solution.Congrats on your attitude to this TAMHANI've been to a funeral within the last year for someone close who took his own life and I can tell you that the fallout is just horrendous.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 02:54:00 am
content: There was a student at my secondary school till 2008, he might be one year older that me. He finished his magister degree at an university and than hanged himself on a remote place in 2015. He was missing for a few days until police found him dead.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 04:41:19 am
content: QuoteI think that TANHAN has fear that the sawbones begin to give her drugs(antidepressive ansiolitic ,etc), she was estable for 90% of time ,she becomes a zombi and unestable 90%.Because the sawbones trend is prescribe drugs as candies.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 05:58:04 am
content: Has anyone actually asked her why she is doing these things? Has she indicated that she wants to harm herself? Chances are (as others have mentioned) that she is doing it for attention. That's not to say she isn't suffering from a mental illness, it's just that it might not necessarily be depression and she might not have the intention of actually killing herself.I'm not sure what the law and health system are like in your country, but in Australia, Police and Ambulance officers have the power to forcibly detain someone who is a threat to themselves or others and have them assessed by a doctor and mental health practitioner.You may wish to seek advice on that from the authorities. Leave it to the professionals, all you can do is provide for a safe workplace. Perhaps a policy that she is to be supervised at all times around high voltage equipment is enough.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 08:00:50 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 29, 2016, 05:58:04 amTo my opinion it does not make sense to ask her unless you are a professional. What if she tells you, yes, she would be saying this to draw attention, not to be alone, and then jumps from a balcony next day? If she would have any other form of illness that threatens her life, you would immediately call the ambulance and apply first aid. Why should that be different for mental illness?Quote from: Halcyon on July 29, 2016, 05:58:04 amSame here in Germany, and exactly what I also suggested.Quote from: vodka on July 29, 2016, 04:41:19 amFirst, to be unstable 1% of the time is enough if that 1% leads her to do silly things only once.Second, where does that idea come from, if not from watching too many Hollywood movies (sorry for getting sarcastic but I have the feeling to need to be drastic here)? Today's dentists and surgeons also don't give you a bottle of rum and a bite stick anymore, same holds for the psychiatric area. What they would do with her is to stabilize her in her depression by taking her away from her normal environment, by providing structure and healthy activities. They would develop a plan together with her what to change in her life and how/where to start therapy. Andbecausethey want to release her into her normal life as quickly as possible (next ones needing acute help are already waiting!) they will off her medical help that will help her staying stable until ambulant therapy starts having effect.Third, TANHAN, this is all not about your personal fears and objections towards psychology. You have the responsibility to help people in trouble like her. If you have objections, inform yourself to clarify your picture. The best way is to actually go there and talk with a doctor. They can also help people like you who are concerned with such a situation.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:56:42 am
content: Your problems with this employee are far greater than with just an HV PSU.Not only must you "do the right thing", you must be able toproveto adisinterested third partythat you did "the right thing" and didn't do "the wrong thing". Much more difficult, and requires the appropriate level of planning and deliberation.Get professional local advice w.r.t. employment law and medical practice.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 10:01:35 am
content: Quote from: tatus1969 on July 29, 2016, 08:00:50 amYou are quite right. I had my "professional hat" on for a moment there. This would be a question *I* would ask, but unless you're prepared for a range of answers, probably best not to ask in the first place. That said, there hasn't been a case of someone jumping off a balcony because they were asked if they were going to kill themselves. A question like that won't cause an already unstable person to think "Oh shit, that's a good idea, why didn't I think of that?". If they want to jump, they'd have made their mind up long before anyone asked about their intentions.It's one of the first questions law enforcement and ambulance personnelshouldask.Anyway getting back on-track, you may find she has been diagnosed with a mental disorder (don't assume though). It may be the case that whatever medication she is on isn't working for her or the dosage needs reviewing. Again, refer to my original point about calling emergency services.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 10:49:28 am
content: Best thing you can do is get her some help,Absurd and unethical suggestion deleted by moderatorPretty sure with a psychiatrist she could be better and the doc could provide you with information and advice you need. Dont forget to try the suicide hotline.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 10:52:51 am
content: Can't you just take the HV source home with you when you aren't using it ?If you don't want to modify it to fit the key switch, what about putting it inside a rack/enclosure with non standard screws etc fitted, then remove the internal power cord when you aren't using it. I can't see anyone going to the trouble to dismantle the whole thing just to be able to power it up.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 01:05:54 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 29, 2016, 10:01:35 amFully agree. My point was not that it could be harmful to ask why she is doing things (I have never been ich such a situation, but I know that keeping conversation going on can help because it helps keeping the troubled mind busy). What I meant is that I am just not an expert in interpreting the answers, and would not dare to make any conclusions on her momentary safety.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 01:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: System Error Message on July 29, 2016, 10:49:28 amI can only hope that you mean this ironic. I would suspect that doing that would be a criminal offense, even if meant well. Mental illness going to the point of suicidal thoughts is a serious disease (and can be healed in many cases!) and needs professional treatment.When talking about laws (in my case, German, but I think it will be similar everywhere): when you realize someone trying to commit suicide, then youhaveto keep this person from doing that. I'm not sure but I think that you can even punished for failure to aid performance if not helping, unless you see your own life in danger. If this requires physical actions like holding him/her tight then you are allowed to.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 01:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: tatus1969 on July 29, 2016, 01:05:54 pmFor a naive employer, perhaps the question shouldn't be 'Why' but instead "how can we help and support you through this?". Followed up with actually helping to source the appropriate professional help if required.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 01:51:30 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 28, 2016, 10:38:42 pm@TAMHAN - This statement reads like you intended to target all mental health professionals and the various different types of psychotherapies available. However, 'Psychoanalysis' is only a particular branch. You need to know there are many therapies out there, some of which may benefit your friend.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 03:09:33 pm
content: QuoteToday ,if the sawbones haven't the ill on the medic book , or neon cartel or its presentation letter, they don't know that you have. (Own experience)QuoteBeautiful euphemism stabilizer for say that the first step by PROTOCOL is given drugs to patient(Own experience, when i was at the anesthesiologist consult, she gave me a bag with a protector gastric and anxiolytic when i asked to her the reasons,she didn't know to respond me).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 04:56:11 pm
content: Thought experiment...Presume the worst happens either at work or at home and there is a statement implicating work. I expect you will then be visited by various representatives of the state and insurance company, etc.What will you say to them? What evidence will you show them that your statements are true and your actions (and inactions) were correct and appropriate?No, I don't expect you to answer on this forum, but I doubt "I discussed the problem on EEVBlog Forum" would be an acceptable answer!You need professional advice, as soon as possible.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 05:23:00 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on July 29, 2016, 05:58:04 amCalifornia: Section 5150 of the Welfare and Institutions Code which allows for an involuntary 72 hour commitment. It takes a court order to hold someone longer than 72 hours. Lacking a crime, that is unlikely. We don't lock away crazy people since Reagan shut down all the mental health facilities.http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=wic&group=05001-06000&file=5150-5155A few seem to extend moral obligations into legal obligations. I am not aware that a civilian has any duty to do anything. Certain occupations do carry a duty to perform but I don't believe that extends to employers when it involves a personal issue. Work site safety - sure! Comply with all Labor Relations laws - absolutely. Get involved with employee's personal problems - I doubt it! Protecting other workers from blow-back - well, that is probably a work site safety issue.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 05:53:23 pm
content: I may be repeating myself, but I strongly believe this is important:Protectyourselfbefore playing try-and-guess with your unlucky colleague.Talk to your lawyer and make sure your company is on the safe side (you DO have a good lawyer, right?). Have you ever thought what will happen to you and your company if a colleague actually commits suicide?If you are safe, you can start helping her.And of course: I am also shocked by your opinion on psychologists.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 05:56:47 pm
content: QuoteI think that the problem that is a thing that you never must talk at public as a fraud or planning a murder, becuase after they will go by you ,as Tggzzz said.Now you huge problem is how many employees saw the suicide attempt . if it passes other time and she dies they will begin to sing. I recommend that you search a lawyer for covering his back .

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 06:15:36 pm
content: QuoteNothing if it is spontaneous but if there are an antecedent the thing will be complicatedQuoteSo i am not surprise by his opinion i think the same

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 08:40:04 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on July 29, 2016, 06:15:36 pm"Nothing" means closing the company for a time long enough to clarify what happened. It can take really long, and no one will refund your lost profits for that period of time. If the company is small, in such a circumstance it's mostly doomed to fail.Not to mention the familiy and all the stuff that goes on with such a dramatic event.Therefore: protect yourself.Quote from: vodka on July 29, 2016, 06:15:36 pmI respect your opinion, but let me bring my experience: a good specialist can solve many issues, and a bad specialist ruins the work of ten good ones.I learned a great lesson: if you don't know how to do it, let someone else (a specialist) do it, as you may not be able to handle the consequences.A potential suicide isdefinitely notsomething I would mess (or become involved) with.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 08:55:53 pm
content: What you should do? Not worry about how to protect her from a lab-supply, but rather to stop her from killing herself.Report her to the local police office IMMEDIATELY, so they can take appropriate measures. Otherwise you could get into some big trouble.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:02:19 pm
content: Scientologists don't believe in Psychoanalysts either.This is a useful benchmark, to take your own beliefs and work out who else believes in that shit too.Just like Jeremy Corbyn and Stalin share similar thinking on mass political purges

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:12:08 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on July 29, 2016, 03:09:33 pmIn which country do you live? I can only tell from the situation here in Germany. It is totally different from what you experienced.

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 29, 2016, 05:23:00 pmIn Germany: yes. There is a jurisdiction "failure to aid performance" that is placed under penalty. For example, if you find someone hurt by a car accident, your are obliged to help. I put the original text into Google translate:"Those who do not provide assistance for accidents or common danger or distress, although this is required and expected of him in the circumstances, in particular without substantial own risk and without violation of other important duties is possible, will be punished with imprisonment up to one year or a fine."Would be interesting for me how this relates to laws in your countries.Of course this does not mean you should dig into someones personal issues. We are talking about knowing that someone is in danger of committing suicide. I'm sure this matches the term "common danger of distress".

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:26:31 pm
content: Quote from: bitslice on July 29, 2016, 09:02:19 pm*without words* O0

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 09:46:52 pm
content: Hello,here in Slovakia, things AFAIK are more relaxed. My lawyer says I dont need to worry much - at least as long as this thread gets deletedBut I think, the issue is solved. There will be a key in the PSU...I am just not sure yet technically how to make it work. The locks I want to use are normal "door locks"...

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 10:04:08 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 29, 2016, 09:46:52 pmNothing is solved. The PSU is one of the least of your problems...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 10:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 29, 2016, 09:46:52 pmSigh. There's a UK proverb: "There's none so deaf as them's won't hear".Does that mean you are free to stop worrying about that employee, and concentrate on important things like shipping your auction purchases to your home? (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/auction-(uk)-71441/msg993777/#msg993777)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2016, 11:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 29, 2016, 09:46:52 pmNo, kamarat, to sa mylis. Na Slovensku tiez plati paragraf o neposkytnuti pomoci. Nespekuluj a treba kontaktovat psychiatriu pripadne zachranku.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 01:13:56 am
content: You have identified a potential workplace safety issue with an employee and a piece of dangerous equipment (and made that public knowledge) , so it is now 100% your responsibility to manage that issue and ensure that employee does not have access to that equipment.How you do that is up to you.The other issue of dealing with an employee with possible suicidal tendencies is not the place of this forum. Seek professional advice.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 01:36:40 am
content: There is good scientific evidence that psychological, pharmaceutical and psychiatric intervention (individually and or combined ) decreases suicide risk.Take good professional advice to see if they think she really is at risk. If you have a complex electronic problem you would also seek good professional EE advice. If you really care this may save her life and save you a lot of legal and conscience worry.

author: botcrusher
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 02:32:06 am
content: ^ This.The earlier effective denouncing of mental health specialists should be treated no differently than refusing to let a surgeon perform life saving surgery. It horrifies me as I have had SEVERAL friends and family members brink on suicide, all of which were helped by mental health professionals and are alive TO THIS DAY, and live happy full lives. By trying to deal with this situation with the lock and key method, you are PLAYING with someone's life here. The PSU is the least of your freaking worries, the only "back stabbing" is your failiure to act and help the employee, instead leaving them to the vices of whatever issues are causing the tendencies.I'm not afraid to call things out for what they are, and have little patience for people who do not take these matters seriously.TL;DRYou are being an idiot, seek medical help for the employee because you have grounds to suspect another suicide attempt.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 02:51:12 am
content: Perhaps he didn't play with a flight simulator.....On Jul 28th 2016 Malaysia's Ministry of Transport released following statement in response to media reports claiming police had uncovered data from the captain's flight simulator showing a route very similiar to the presumed track across Malaysia towards Andaman Islands and then turning south:Give evidence to investigating team if it exists, says ministerPUTRAJAYA: Malaysia is unaware of any evidence that MH370 pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah conducted a simulated flight deep into the remote southern Indian Ocean less than a month before the plane vanished.Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said there was no indication that Zaharie had flown that route and authorities here were not aware of such evidence.He said criminal investigations were ongoing and he would leave it to the investigation team to examine whatever evidence they had.The New York magazine claimed to have obtained a confidential document from the Malaysian police investigation into the disappearance of MH370, which “showed the strongest evidence Zaharie made off with the plane in a premeditated act of mass murder-suicide”.“We don’t have that evidence as of now. If you have that evidence, please hand it over to the investigation team,” Liow said.http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b/0526&opt=0

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 05:57:22 am
content: The triangle of suicide: in villages where life is removed a custom. Alcalá la Real, Priego de Córdoba and Iznájar are the area with the highest rate of suicides at SpainNewspaper -EL ESPAÑOLhttp://www.elespanol.com/reportajes/grandes-historias/20160729/143736438_0.html.Here , some went to physicologic by suicide attempt or depression, but the vast majority(even who are treated) terminate for killing it

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 09:51:34 pm
content: Hello Folks,first of all: big thanks for all the replies. It looks like the employee has already sought help...which means that legally, I really do not need to worry. Plus, she technically isnt allowed to be in the lab area, so...Either way, I still want to install the lock. If just for the fun of it...will of course post a video when done!@Vodka. Given that you share my views, I have a very nice story for you about the "professionals". You will cry tears of laughter...but I cannot post it here or Dave might get in trouble for offending the darlings and fulfillment aides of the powers that be (see Gustl Mollath case. e.g.). So contact me via email if you want...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2016, 10:01:09 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 30, 2016, 09:51:34 pm... about some things, but you still need to sort out your defencesin advancew.r.t. other things.QuoteIn the UK that would be irrelevant. Her managers wouldpersonallyhave to ensure she wasn't in the lab area. And if they failed then, under the Health and Safety as Work Acts, they would bepersonallyresponsible if she did harm to herself or others.If you haven't got a solid legal opinion - on paper - about the local legal situation, then you are being optimistic.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 07:16:16 am
content: Surely if someone is suicidal and works in an environment ful of equipment that can be used to that end they should be signed off work ? not that that helps as she can still do it other ways but if as a manager you have to spend your day ensuring someone does not wilfully harm themselves with your equipment then it's pointless them being in the job.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 11:43:16 am
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on July 30, 2016, 09:51:34 pmYour opinion on psychologists based on anecdotal evidence (at best) is pretty much irrelevant. You are most likelynot qualifiedto have an informed opinion on or to judge them. There have been surgeons and physicians who killed their patients too. Does that mean we shouldn't go to see a doctor when ill, because they are all murderers? That's not rational thinking and in your case, specifically, dangerous - both for your company and your employee.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 12:25:19 pm
content: I second the security camera part, and sounds like you need some locks on the outlets too.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 05:36:24 pm
content: QuoteThey aren't murders but yes very incompetents and very arrogants. When i broke my elbow i didn't went to emergency despite i had an haematoma since the hand until the shoulder.( if i had gone they had done preventively fasciotomy (with infection risk or that cut a nerve) without care that i hadn't pain(untouch and touch) and had sensitivity(i noted pression ,temperature) ).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FasciotomyI was two weeks until i decided to go the emergency because i couldn't extend of all the elbow( style Napoleon) furthermore i saw that i tried to extend the elbow its deformed(when low the inflamation) but i hadn't pain.Now began the jokeThe emergency report put that i had a olecranon fracture and the symptom:asymptomaticwithextension grades lossandpainless(you see the incoherence).During the ingress before the operation, i manifested that i hadn't pain, but they as the grandmother with lentils,if you don't want cup the lentils,she puts a cup and half. the arm didn't pain me but i pained all the body.A month later of the operation ,at the medic consultant he told me that i never recovered the all the elbow mobility(after that 4 o 5 medics saw me and anybody said me nothing )It was passed the months and the elbow didn't get better, i had pain when i moved the hand ,closed hand and extended the elbow and i couldn't elevate weight more 5 kg (during a year) .6 months after of the operation i developed a huge spasms on the operated arm that i inhibited to controller the arm, any medics didn't know that i had. Only ,one approached a few , and he discovered that when my mind was concentrated the huge spasm reduced or dissapered(It seems crazy but it is certain). I passed a month learnt to concentrate for avoiding the huge spasms but still didn't control some movement of the arm(but it was improvement).Until that a day by accident i discovered that moving the tissues(packet musculars) of wrist(unconcentrate mind), the huge spasms dissapered and returned all the control of the arm, there began to suspect that the responsable the pain and the spasms were the nails of the elbow . Because , always that began the spasm and the pain came from the zone where were the nails(This was reported to medic).The problem persisted until that i was operated for extracting the nails from elbow, the same day disappeared all the huge spasm. Later months, i recupered all the movements from arm and a few more the elbow extension.At today, the aftermath i have two great scars, an elbow almost straight and low spasm when i press the zone where were the nails. But WITOUTH PAIN AFTER FROM 2 YEARS.COME ON ,FOR TRUSTING TO MEDICS

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 06:10:49 pm
content: And the relevance is??I've had my life saved (more than once) by medical professionals, really nice people too. Maybe it's not the safest option to follow your opinions.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 06:30:00 pm
content: @vodka I think you need to either sue your incompetent doctor or find a better one. Or both. Or you could maybe learn that without your (botched according to you) surgery you wouldn't be able to move that arm at all now or it would be irreparably damaged.However, I fail to see how your anecdotal evidence about a supposedly botched surgery with a sample size of one is relevant to the issue at hand. What you describe sounds like a freak surgery complication that simply happens sometimes, even if the surgeon does everything correctly.I know a person who has suffered a damaged nerve following a surgical aneurysm repair. It lead to two years of pain and misery (unable to sit, unable to move properly, constantly on large pain killer doses ...) until the true issue was discovered and fixed. However, if he didn't have had that original surgery, he would have been dead already - a burst aortic aneurysm means you bleed to death within minutes.