Software to use Seek Mosaic Core? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 04:03:56 am
content: I recently bought a used Seek Mosaic OEM starter kit and I’m wondering if anyone here knows of any software I can use to connect it to my computer and view the camera’s output? There’s a Seek sample viewer but it’s locked behind access to the developer portal and I suspect I won’t have much luck registering as a hobbyist, though I’ve submitted an application just in case.Anyway, I got this core cheap knowing I would probably have some trouble getting it set up buying it second-hand, so no big deal if I can’t get this working, but I’m hopeful that someone here might know of a way I can get this camera up and running!-Mike

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 10:25:16 am
content: As a first step you could try connecting the unit to an Android phone via USB OTG and running the Seek App that is normally used with the Seek Thermal Dongle cameras. If all works well, you could look at the work done on this forum to connect Seek cameras to a PC.Fraser

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 11:45:16 am
content: That’s a good thought, I’ll check it out later today and report back! I did poke around in JoeC’s Thermovision software but didn’t have any luck there.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 12:08:52 pm
content: The SDK API is certainly universal in its support for the different USB dongle cameras. The API will hopefully recognise your Mosaic. I have the SDK but cannot share it as it is only released under an NDA. I hope Seek will provide the Seek Viewer as that is a relatively ‘non-sensitive’ part of the SDK document and code set.Just for your information, in case you are unaware, the Seek OEM cores are basically the same as the seek Dongles but in a different format. The microbolometer PCBA is connected to a processor PCBA that creates a proprietary data stream that is passed across the USB link. In the host computer, the seek API unpacks the USB proprietary data stream and provides functionality and data for a host software application to access. Seek consider the imaging module, its USB link and the API to effectively be a single building block and the API is considered an essential part of the system. Others on the forum have created their own USB data stream unpacking API to read the data without the need fir the Seek API. The challenge has been to understand the purpose and use of the various data frames that are used for calibration etc. The Seek API limits what a programmer can do with the imaging module as only certain functionality is provided.Seek provide the required API for use with Android, iOS, Windows and Linux via their SDK developers portal.Will the software presented by members of this forum work with the Mosaic ? I am not certain. Those programs have been created through reverse engineering the USB data stream from the various Seek Dongle camera versions. The SEEK API is not in use. As a reverse engineered solution the programs will not work with the Mosaic if Seek have employed a slightly different USB data stream. The official API might recognise the camera model and adapt but the reverse engineered programs may not know what to do with a Mosaic core if it differs from the dongle cameras.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 12:39:01 pm
content: When connecting the Mosaic to an Android phone, remember that the phone must be in OTG mode for communications as a host to an accessory. Some USB cables contain the required ID pin connection, whilst others do not. If you have problems, make sure that he OTG ID pin is supported in your in the cables micro USB connector(S).Others on the forum have had all manner of problems with so called “OTG compatible” cables that turn out to not have the OTG ID pin connected.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2021, 12:51:58 pm
content: Please will you provide some close-up pictures of your Mosaic kit as such seem to be rare and I would like to compare the PCB’s with those of the earlier J3-603 core version that I have. No need to remove the microbolometer PCB from the lens assembly ! There is nothing much on that side if the PCB anyway. I am just interested to see an overall image of the kit chassis, both sides of the processor PCB and the rear (easily visible) side of the microbolometer PCB that is attached to the lens chassis.For information, Seek appear to have had issues with localised heating of the microbolometer PCB from the processor PCB when the two were mounted together on the lens chassis. The solution they chose was to separate the two PCB’s and connect them with a ribbon cable. I have witnessed this localised heating effect on the earlier (J3-603) core that was sold for OEM use.Fraser

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2021, 01:56:25 am
content: Quick update before I head to work and have more time to experiment: I’m surprised to say that Seek approved my developer application and I’ve been able to use the Seek SimpleViewer software to play with the camera! I’ll post some pictures of the core once I’m settled in at work in a few hours.

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2021, 03:52:30 am
content: Took a few quick pictures, I don’t have the tools to get the PCBs apart for better pictures right now though. I still need to get out to my car to try the official seek android application out at some point as well, but if that doesn’t work there does seem to be an example .apk available as well.

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2021, 03:55:18 am
content: Just a couple more pictures:

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2021, 12:17:10 pm
content: Those are very interesting pictures ! Compare your kit with the marketing images attached. You will see that Seek Thermal moved the processor PCB away from the microbolometer PCB to avoid thermal stability issues. In your version the processor is still on the rear of the microbolometer PCB but has a ‘large’ heat-sink bonded to the processor to radiate heat away from it. With the earlier J3-603 OEM core that I have, the instructions for use state that a heat sink of some sort should be attached to the processor IC. In my case, it was attached to a large copper plate in an effort to dissipate the heat over a large area inside the camera.Thank you for the very interesting picturesCongratulations on getting the developer access as well. What process did you have to follow to apply for that access please as I know others have asked on this forum when looking at buying a Mosaic kit. Do you go to a hidden link and enter the kits serial number and your details ? I gained my SDK via some product testing work I was doing for an OEM so they did the application for me.https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Seek%20Thermal/mosaic_core_specification_sheet.pdfFraser

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 01:11:02 am
content: I had some time to try plugging the Mosaic core into an android device today, unfortunately the official Google Play Store version of the Seek Thermal app did not detect the camera; luckily the Seek Simple .apk from the developer portal works great!About the portal, I had sent an email to Seek Support after seeing some references to a sample viewer software in the Mosaic core .pdf’s floating around, just asking if they could help me find the software. They emailed me back the next morning with a link to the developer portal and an explanation that I would need to register first. I can post that link from the email if you think that would be alright, but I can’t find it in a google search so I figure they might be trying to keep it private. The registration was just serial number, name, address, business, intended application and expected volume, those sort of things. Very short process, I think they approved me within 24 hours after I submitted the application.That’s interesting to see the different ways they’ve tried to mitigate the problems with thermal stability, I don’t think I’d ever have noticed there were such different designs in the marketing material without you pointing it out! I’m curious to know how effective the various revisions have been.Thanks again for providing more interesting information about these cores Fraser, I’m constantly impressed by the extent of your knowledge and thankful for your willingness to share it here. Do let me know if you’d like any additional pictures, I could probably separate the processor board from the rest of the core if you’d like to see the other side of the PCB and the microbolometer PCB.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2021, 11:18:50 am
content: MikeNC407,Many thanksThe process is as I suspected then. There is no detail of a Developer portal application form on the Seek Thermal web site, only a statement that buyers of the Mosaic kit should contact their sales agent. Maybe they are trying to avoid spurious requestsI have written to Seek requesting access to the Mosaic SDK to see how they respond to a UK based request. My previous access was through the camera OEM so I did not test the access application process personally.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2021, 11:11:10 pm
content: MikeNC407,I just found an auction listing for a Seek OEM kit 1514 that looks very similar to the images of the unit you have.I cannot find any information on the “1514” kit but have to wonder whether it is the Seek J3-603 developers kit that predates the release of the Mosaic core. That would explain the location of the processor PCB on the rear of the core rather than on the kits base plate.The auction is here.....https://www.ebay.com/itm/Seek-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-OEM-Starter-kit-model-1514-/124646782244?hash=item1d0586f524%3Ag%3As00AAOSwvaJgPBsa&LH_ItemCondition=4&nma=true&si=uEgoexp7F%252BYfThPV9x2wDAvD%252FxA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557I may be wrong however as I can find no detail of this kits core. It dates back to the time when Seek only provided development kits to OEM’s.Fraser

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 01:07:22 am
content: That listing is for the camera I bought and posted about here! I’ll have to ask the seller if he’s got any more information about it, I know he sold one of the same or a similar kit just before I bought this one. I did have to use S204SP (or something close to that) as the model number during the registration process as there was no option for 1514 and no other indication of the model number on the camera itself.

author: Abbott242
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 02:12:28 am
content: Haha that's funny this showed up - I bid on that too, but ended up going for another thermal core right as the auction was ending. I was worried about getting into the developer portal, so am glad to hear you're making progress. Looks like a good deal - good luck, and have fun!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 02:47:37 am
content: MikeNC407,If your kit does contain the J3-603 core you may want to ask Seek Thermal to provide the documentation for it as it may differ to the Mosaic series. I already have the J3-603 documentation so will compare it to that of the MOSAIC when I get time.Fraser

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 03:17:01 am
content: Fraser, any advice about verifying if I’ve got the J3-603? I’ll see what I can find out.Abbott, I had been pretty hesitant to bid on it because of the software myself but put in a last minute bid for something like $75 since the price was still so low and I got pretty lucky. What kind of core did you end up going for?

author: Abbott242
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 03:40:36 am
content: That's awesome! Definitely a good price. I got the ITC-1000 shown in the "mystery Raytheon camera" thread - unfortunately it's got some big issues, hopefully I can salvage it but we'll see.

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 04:03:49 am
content: Ah I see, I had been skimming through that post earlier. Tough luck with that core but it does look like you’re making good progress! I’m curious, does your core (or should it) show an FFC event indicator on the screen occasionally? I know some of the FLIR/Indigo cores do at least. If it’ll tell you when it’s trying to do a flat-field correction maybe you can actuate the shutter another way? I wonder if the core has any kind of software that might have been used to disable FFC events after the initial couple at boot?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2021, 08:22:30 pm
content: MikeNC407,I attach some pictures of the SEEK Thermal J3-603 core that I have. The "603" refers to the processor PCBA attached to the microbolometer PCBA rear. Interestingly my core is fitted with a "604" processor PCBA so maybe should be described as a J3-604.I can confirm that my core is not a MOSAIC type. Your Processor PCBA appears to have the same silk screen printed ID as mine so I suspect you have a J3-603/J3-604 core.The Mosaic core processor PCB is mounted remotely from the rest of the core. It has a 20 pin inter-pcb type connector in the same location as the 5 pin USB ZIF connector on the 603/604 version. The Mosaic processor PCBA still has a 5 pin ZIF connector, just in a different location.Fraser

author: gabiz_ro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 09:15:41 pm
content: Looks like HT-201 use same

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 09:58:35 pm
content: Official SEEK items in the pictures above all seem to have a heatsink for the processor, so does the HT-201 have heatsinking in the other part or somehow 'managing' without ?Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 10:09:10 pm
content: I hope the HT-201 does have a heat sink as it is stated as a requirement in the cores SDK and installation documentation. Even with a heat sink the heat from the processor PCB effects the performance of the microbolometer PCB.

author: gabiz_ro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2021, 10:56:14 pm
content: Photos are not mine.Found some on 4pda forum.LPC chip is clean,housing seems to prevent heatsink to be included.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2021, 09:30:18 am
content: If the rear casing is made from metal it likely has a heat transfer pad connecting it to the processor PCB. Some heat transfer pads peel away without residue on the chip.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2021, 09:48:44 pm
content: Quote from: MikeNC407 on April 02, 2021, 04:03:56 amThe Seek development kits are supposed to come either with a software CD, or a piece of paper with special URL written on it that is not publicly documented, that links to a special page on the Seek website where you can download software. I've read that they have a simple viewer app that runs on a normal Windows PC, but it's only available to people who have bought a Seek development kit. So you should already have access to it, as you have purchased one of their kits. If you don't have it, then you need to send an email to Seek and explain your situation and ask for a link to the software.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2021, 09:53:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 02, 2021, 12:08:52 pmYou said the OEM cores are a different format, and then proceed to describe a format involving a proprietary data stream, but don't identify which unit it's for. Is this proprietary data stream something that comes from the Seek OEM cores? Or is the proprietary data stream something that comes from the Seek smartphone cameras?

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2021, 09:55:08 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on April 02, 2021, 12:51:58 pmIs there a reason for closeup pics being rare? Are actual images of the board maybe a trade secret, protected by the NDA?

author: MikeNC407
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2021, 03:31:15 pm
content: Ben321, thanks for the response, I was lucky enough to get access to the Seek Developer Portal a few months back using the process you described. I wasn’t sure I would be given access because I had bought this unit secondhand on eBay, but whoever I emailed that day didn’t seem to mind.

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2021, 10:26:43 pm
content: Quote from: MikeNC407 on September 22, 2021, 03:31:15 pmI have a question. When using the desktop viewer software for the Mosaic core, do you need to first install a driver that also comes with the SDK? Or do you need to instead use 3rd party software Zadig to install the WinUSB or LibUSB driver for the core? Or does it work immediately with the viewer, without any driver (possibly using some default driver like the UVC, USB Video Class driver that comes with Windows)?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2021, 01:05:39 pm
content: Ben321,There is nothing secret about the MOSAIC core. The MOSAIC core is basically a J3-603/4 core that has had the “603/4” processor PCB separated from the cores chassis and microbolometer PCB using a ribbon cable. The reason is simple…. The processor PCB generates heat and this does have a negative impact on the cores performance when it is mounted behind the microbolometer PCB. The only reason that you have not seen close up pictures of the MOSAIC core is that no one has bothered to photograph their MOSAIC core and post the images online. The SEEK Thermal cored cameras that I have disassembled have all had either the J3-603/4 core or just the Microbolometer PCB connected to the video processor on a main board, as in the SEEK Reveal cameras. Cameras that do not need a USB link from camera to host do not use the “603/4” processor PCB.Attached pictures show the standard J3-603/4 and later MOSAIC core with its remote processor PCB for thermal separation.