ERSA iCon Pico vs iCon Nano! Is ESD protection important?? Soldering station. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: enigma
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 06:14:04 pm
content: Hi everyone! I wish you a Happy New Year!Now...I want to buy a good soldering station, but living in Europe (Greece), where Hakko is not an option, i decided to buy an ERSA!My budget is limited so i have to choose between 3 models:RDS80,iCon Pico, oriCon Nano.RDS80andiCon Picohave a very small difference in price, although i couldn't find any technical differences between them.( I emailed ERSA in Germany, asking about the difference between these two, but no one replied!)iCon Nanoon the other hand has a difference of about 100-120$ with the other two just because it offers ESD protection i think.(I couldn't find any other technical difference in specifications betweenNanoandPicoeither.)Links below:http://www.reichelt.de/Soldering-Stations-ERSA/RDS-80/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=69172&GROUPID=553&artnr=RDS+80http://www.reichelt.de/Soldering-Stations-ERSA/I-CON-PICO/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=110014&GROUPID=553&artnr=I-CON+PICOhttp://www.reichelt.de/Soldering-Stations-ERSA/I-CON-NANO/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=2&ARTICLE=89494&GROUPID=553&artnr=I-CON+NANOI work with SMD (cellphone main-boards repair) and i know that they are very sensitive components, but i don't know how important ESD protection on the solder station is.If anyone could suggest me one of them, or give me some feedback/review, i could appreciate it a lot!Does anyone knows if there is another difference between them except ESD protection?I really don't know if i should buyiCon Picoor add another 100-120$ and buyiCon Nano??In this moment i can't afford adding 120$ more without a good reason! Please help!Thanks in advance!

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 06:49:17 pm
content: I went through a similar decision process a year ago. I went for the iCon Nano as I felt that ESD protection was important, but I can't definitively give scientific evidence of this.Here is what ERSA wrote to me (they were very good about responding to my e-mails so I'm surprised you've not had a response) :our ESD-safe solder stations are especially designed for industrial environmentand for working on sensitive electronics. These stations meets the old MILstandards and the present IPC standards for industrial soldering equipment. Thismeans that our soldering tips are connected to ground potential via the earthconnection - although our control station electronics is designed aselectrically isolated. So the earth connection is not required for electricalsafety, it's just for grounding the tip. Here the resistance must be less than 5ohms according to the standards. But this is not the only thing. Also thehousing and the iron must be made of antistatic plastics or conductive materialto avoid electrostatic charge (as well as the soldering iron cable).All of our antistatic soldering stations are equipped like described above.If a station is not marked to be antistatic, then it doesn't have a groundedtip. The mains plug is just a two-pin plug. Neither the housing nor thesoldering iron or iron cable material is antistatic in such case.Just the mains irons have a grounded tip. But here it's for electrical safetyonly. The grip and cable material is not antistatic, too.In your case:Stations like the i-CON PICO and the RDS 80 are NOT antistatic and they have nogrounded tip. From the performance side, the i-CON PICO is comparable with theESD-safe i-CON NANO. Hint: The RDS 80 has no chance against an i-CON PICOperformance-wise. Our i-CON generation is precisely temperature controlled by aTC sensing the tip temperature in front of the heater. The RDS 80 just controlsthe heater temperature and this makes it quite slow in the way of comparison. Soboth stations are typical hobby stations, but the i-CON PICO has industrialheating performance (9 seconds for heating up only!) anyway. If you just solderwires to plug pins then you may not need an ESD-safe station...Hope this will help you making your decision.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:16:05 am
content: If the tip is grounded and if you have a ground strap, what can go wrong with the non ESD safe iron?

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:37:18 am
content: I have heard complaints from several RDS80 owners, that its iron's cable is annoyingly stiff.As far as ESD goes, I haven't owned an ESD safe soldering iron until just recently and I have never killed anything with static. At least not that I would know (static discharge doesn't necessarily immediately kill the component, it could just damage it and you would have to face the consequences later).Quote from: enigma on January 04, 2014, 06:14:04 pmDon't make it sound like you are settling for an Ersa, they make better equipment than Hakko.

author: AlienRelics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:41:10 am
content: Keep in mind that if you don't have an ESD mat and a wrist strap, you and the board can pick up a charge and blow a chip when the grounded tip touches the board.So there is a lot more to it than just an ESD safe soldering iron.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:41:48 am
content: Quote from: zapta on January 06, 2014, 01:16:05 amAs I understand it it needs to have around 1 Mega Ohm resistance. So it wont discharge to fast if you're using it in an energised circuit.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:57:33 am
content: Quote from: quarros on January 06, 2014, 01:41:48 amI thought the same, but it turns out that is only true for wrist straps and ESD mats. Soldering iron tips have a direct connection to mains earth.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 02:06:38 am
content: Quote from: Dave on January 06, 2014, 01:57:33 amWell that don't make much sense to me...So if you're using an ESD station on either an energised or "self charged" circuit than you can easily fry your circuit by grounding a charged trace...Well call me stupid but I just don't get it.

author: enigma
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 10:09:35 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 06, 2014, 01:16:05 amThat was my question exactly! If the only difference between iCon Pico and iCon Nano is the ESD protection, then why there is a difference of 120$? A quality ground strap starts from 5$ on ebay. You can connect it to a grounded device and you are OK.Also, to answer some of the questions,there are standards for ESD safe soldering stations, and from the OK International statement of compliance (googled), the strictest would ensure:* The resistance between tip and ground is less than 2 ohms* The AC voltage present on the tip is less than 2mV RMS* The tip presents a leakage current of less than 10mA RMS* Transients are kept below 2V peakI'm not an engineer yet, just an EE student who works part time at a cellphone repair shop. The other guys that work there are a bit irresponsible and ignorant about the ESD and other dangers that could result from not taking the right precautions, not working in a clean/safe place, not using quality tools or not handling the PCB with caution.The other daythishappened to us too and i suspect it happened because of ESD.This is the reason i'm worried about ESD protection in the soldering station now!

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 12:20:06 am
content: You are getting close to the pricing of the JBC stations. You may want to consider them too.

author: enigma
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 12:52:07 am
content: Quote from: Spikee on January 08, 2014, 12:20:06 amI don't think so. Take a look at the pricing of JBC in Greece.http://www.marelectronics.gr/products.php?category=518&company=JBC&lang=gr

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 12:53:56 am
content: I have the first one and i paid like 350 euros at the time.

author: miro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 01:54:49 pm
content: Could you figure out what is really the difference between nano and pico? I can't believe that it's only the ESD safe design. The price difference is 50€ or more and the price difference of the replacement irons is almost ridiculous (144€ vs 71€). I want to buy a soldering station that I will use for a long time, so I'd like to be sure, that I don't buy a wrong station for my purposes. I want to be able to safely solder microcontrollers and other CMOS chips. If i would kill enough chips with a pico it would maybe justify a purchase of a nano...

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 05:34:23 pm
content: This is what ERSA told me about the difference between their ESD safe irons (e.g the Nano) and the non ESD safe ones (like the pico)(sorry I realise I've already quoted this above but I repeat just the relevant bit here):our ESD-safe solder stations are especially designed for industrial environmentand for working on sensitive electronics. These stations meets the old MILstandards and the present IPC standards for industrial soldering equipment. Thismeans that our soldering tips are connected to ground potential via the earthconnection - although our control station electronics is designed aselectrically isolated. So the earth connection is not required for electricalsafety, it's just for grounding the tip. Here the resistance must be less than 5ohms according to the standards.But this is not the only thing. Also thehousing and the iron must be made of antistatic plastics or conductive materialto avoid electrostatic charge (as well as the soldering iron cable).All of our antistatic soldering stations are equipped like described above.If a station is not marked to be antistatic, then it doesn't have a groundedtip. The mains plug is just a two-pin plug. Neither the housing nor thesoldering iron or iron cable material is antistatic in such case.Just the mains irons have a grounded tip. But here it's for electrical safetyonly. The grip and cable material is not antistatic, too.So it sounds a bit more complex than just an esd strap.

author: Xaero1982
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 05:54:32 pm
content: Quote from: enigma on January 07, 2014, 10:09:35 pmThe Pico and RDS80 is made in China, while the Nano is made in Germany.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 07:02:39 pm
content: Quote from: Xaero1982 on March 08, 2014, 05:54:32 pmI was under the impression the Nano is also made in China.Even if it is, I don't believe it matters in this case based on reports from members that own this station.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 07:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 08, 2014, 07:02:39 pmI just checked and my Nano is made in Germany - at least that is what it says on its base.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 07:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on March 08, 2014, 07:05:35 pmGood to know.Although, given the standards/requirements to meet "Made in Germany" do leave a lot to be desired IMHO (20% content or "significant transformation" rules last I checked).For example, my Weller WD1 states "Made in Germany", but the power board (one that connects to the iron), is made by an Asian contract supplier. Not sure about the controller board (no ID marks that I recall), no Weller logo or P/N's on either board, unlike the transformer (and what I'm accustomed to with Weller; made getting replacement parts easy). Final assembly is done in Germany, and both the stands and irons qualify as "Made in Germany" (suspect the stand is 100% German, and the iron a bit mixed based on the PCB in the WSP80 <quite rough looking>). Can't even access the one in the WMP (replace the entire iron if it dies scenario, as there are no replacement parts at all).Also seeing issues with German hand tools that are outsourcing at least part of it's manufacturing (i.e. Asia for metal work w/ plastic molding done in Germany <think screwdrivers>). Definitely not what they once were back when they indicated W. Germany on them (cough, cough - Wiha - cough cough). They own a plant in Vietnam FWIW, so it may at least be under Wiha's control the entire time, unlike going with a contractor route.So I see "Made in Germany" as a mixed bag these days.

author: miro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 09:13:01 pm
content: Thanks for the replies! So the huge price difference is mostly because of the ESD safe design and a "made in Germany"-label? At the moment i don't even have an antistatic mat & wrist strap, but maybe in the future. Do you think, that a purchase of an ESD safe station is generally necessary for a hobbyist? I mean, many things, that hobbyists do don't meet the industrial standards but still work.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2014, 11:18:30 pm
content: Quote from: miro on March 08, 2014, 09:13:01 pmI debated this before buying the nano. I felt I was spending a lot of money on other stuff like an oscilloscope, power supply and so on and the difference between the pico which is £130 at Conrad presently and the Nano which I paid £185 for from the importer (who where much cheaper than Conrad, Farnell etc.) was £55 which was not a big fraction of what else I'd spent. So I thought it was worth it for peace of mind. (I think the price difference was from £115 to £185 at the time so about £70. It is a big percentage of the soldering station cost but a small percentage of overall equipment cost.)But, I suspect that for the hobbyist the pico is fine. You say that the Hakko isn't an option in Europe, it is an option in the UK and in Holland so it may be possible to buy via those sources - though the UK one may be restricted to UK only. The UK agent ishttp://www.dancap.co.uk/.There are quite a lot of European agents listed on the Hakko web site but not Greece :http://www.hakko.com/world_network.html.

author: miro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 09, 2014, 12:49:13 pm
content: Thanks, i've considered buying hakko, but the prices and tips availability in Europe/Germany is rather bad compared to ERSA. There is a german distributor, but his webshop is currently offline. The UK price of a FX888D is just about the price of an i-con pico. I've considered buying a hakko clone as well, there are many clones in the sub 100€ price range that claim to be ESD safe, for example aoyue, that has a distributor in Germanyhttp://www.aoyue.deBut i don't know anything about the quality of aoyue, maybe it's not as good as ERSA.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2014, 07:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: miro on March 09, 2014, 12:49:13 pmThe difference is the FX888D is ESD safe whilst the pico isn't.I'm not pushing you towards Hakko as I am very pleased with my Ersa - but I have the nano. If I was choosing between the pico and the Hakko 888 I might be tempted to go the Hakko route to get the ESD protection.

author: WVL_KsZeN
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2014, 08:44:39 pm
content: I once contacted Dancap, but they only sell the hakko's in the UK and will not sell abroad. You could tryhttp://soldeerpunt.nl/maybe.

author: miro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2014, 01:55:05 pm
content: I asked ersa-shop.com about the difference pico vs. nano and just got the answer. They stated that pico's temperature control is based on the measuring of the heater resistance. Nano has a "true" temperature sensor (probably a thermocouple, don't know what do they mean otherwise), which makes the measuring preciser and quicker, so nano is better for large solder joints.This contradicts to the mail from ersa, posted by jpb, where they state, that pico and nano both have a thermocouple....

author: barnacle2k
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2014, 04:10:10 pm
content: I use an Ersa nano as my main iron.Positive:instantaneous heat uptight temperature controlperfect for lead free.Lots of tips to choose fromThe downsides:no knob - we all love knobsPower switch on the back- so annoying that i am thinking about moving it to the front.

author: equilibrium
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 08:38:19 pm
content: Dear All,I'll shortly buy a soldering station that is going to be my long-term main one. I've got my choices down to icon Pico and icon Nano. I'm a bit biased towards Pico due to price concerns (Nano costs around 130 CHF more here in Switzerland), but I really need to know if Pico has auto stand-by when the iron is put down in the stand, i.e iron temperature goes down significantly until it's picked up again. If I understand correctly, Nano has this functionality and Pico does not according to the specs on the Ersa site. Can anyone who used either of them help me out? Thanks!

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 09:15:51 pm
content: I don't know about the pico as I have the nano. The nano will reduce in temperature if you don't use if for a little while - it doesn't drop immediately. A slightly annoying thing is that to wake it up you need to press a button not just lift the iron up.I am very happy with the nano though and would thoroughly recommend it.Personally I went for the nano over the pico because having it ESD safe I felt was important.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 11:30:18 pm
content: Isn't the Nano more of a general purpose iron (can do thru-hole as well as SMD) vs. the Pico being meant for small SMD sizes?Keep thinking the Nano would be comparable to JBC's T245 iron and Weller's WP80 or WSP80 irons regarding size of what it's meant to tackle joint wise, and the Pico to JBC's T210 or Weller's WMP.

author: L1XV
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 10:28:23 am
content: Here some difference which annoys me to dead. My soldering iron is crap, I have the pico. I don't recommend it, if you plan to change the tips frequently..Don't know why, but its crappier than the cheapest Chinese clone station. Look at the thread.On the Pico both are made of plastic.And the iron stand is also crap, go for the iCon Nano. And i suggest to anyone not to buy the 0102PDLF02 tip. It get to less heat as the station shows you. For example you adjust 350°C on the station an will get about 210°C.I wouldn't recommend it at all to buy the i-Con Pico or the nano. It has to many things that are bad designed. On/Off switch on the back. Fixed Power cable, you have to use a sd card to program the station etc... better get a good Hakko 936/937 Ripoff (or Original) and genuine Hakko tips.Very expensive spare parts like the heating element or soldering iron...

author: equilibrium
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 10:32:46 am
content: Thanks for the detailed explanationAlso, Nano's stand looks much sturdier indeed.So I guess I'll be going for Nano then.

author: unicornio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2014, 02:42:35 pm
content: for me, the best welders and soldering stations is weller, are Germans and in tin solder issues they are best...i have one like this (is not exactly the same, but very similar):https://www.google.es/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=QngmY1-JsZWLBM&tbnid=YGv2DC1DZgHcJM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hksolder.com%2FWELLER-LEAD-FREE-SOLDERING-STATIONS-WSD81-301.html&ei=dAx-U9_6JMqq0QXRt4HQCA&bvm=bv.67229260,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNFoESg_wluEHv_Un98dEWW8cjEfmA&ust=1400855962180231

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 10:17:05 am
content: Quote from: jpb on May 10, 2014, 09:15:51 pmSorry to resurrect this old thread, but just FYI, if it's reached the standby temperature, you don't have to press a button -- just touch the tip to the brass wool. It will detect the temperature drop and wake up. The only time you have to press a button to wake it is when it's in the process of entering standby, when it's expecting the temperature drop.I do wish they'd just put in the accelerometer as in the large i-Con series. Oh well.

author: Alfons
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 11:36:03 am
content: The motion sensor of thze i-Tool has advantages and disadvantages. If the standby time is set too low and you have a steady hand during soldering, it may happen, that the soldering iron suddenly goes into standby. Is already happened to me.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 02:55:55 pm
content: Quote from: Alfons on December 05, 2015, 11:36:03 amTurn on some music, and regularly perform some air drumming while soldering; see if that doesn't help stop false standbys.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2015, 04:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 14, 2015, 10:17:05 amJust seen this - useful to know, thank you. Though currently my electronics lab is all packed up in boxes whilst I live in a (small) rented place. I look forward to soldering again when I finally sell my house and the family can move into a new one (with enough room for my lab I hope - my lab being only a smallish desk).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 12:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: Alfons on December 05, 2015, 11:36:03 amA different effect happens with the Nano/Pico, which use temperature drop to detect inactivity. When it sees a stable temperature for the standby delay, it drops into standby (e.g. the default of 250C or whatever). If you try to solder a small joint during the transition to standby (when it's expecting the temperature to drop slowly), the joint may not draw away enough heat to make the temperature drop steeply, and the station won't detect it as activity and will happily keep dropping down to the standby temperature. Once it's reached the standby temperature, though, the temperature drop from wiping the tip on the brass sponge will tell it "hey, there's activity!" and heat it back up by the time you reach the workpiece.The same problem exists if you grab the iron and try to wake it on the sponge right after it leaves standby to drop down to sleep mode (50C default). It just happily keeps dropping until it reaches the sleep temperature. This requires pressing a button to wake again.This is why, regardless of which model i-Con you have, Ersa advises that this can be a consequence of a short standby time in some cases.Quote from: jpb on December 05, 2015, 04:04:45 pmI also live in an apartment and have to have my electronics crammed into a very small space. (It gets a dedicated 60cm wide swath of my desk.) I feel your pain!!

author: Alfons
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2015, 04:22:41 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on December 05, 2015, 02:55:55 pmI now have a second extra-i-Tool worried me, and then i play with both a drum. With only one makes it no fun.If I have a very tight next to each other set of pins, I succeed, the sensor 20sec. long not trigger. Either the sensor is insensitive or I have actually too steady hand.I'll help me now with extra strong espresso from my San Marco-Espresso-machine. Double dose per cup.

author: exk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:28:55 am
content: I have found three differences. i-con nano has:1) ESD protection2) more flexible soldering iron cord3) the iron doesn't heat up after few hours continuous use3.5) the heating element is more expensiveReference in non eng lngERSA soldering stations

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: Alfons on December 07, 2015, 04:22:41 pmI have my standby set to 20 seconds (lowest it will go on i-Con 1) and have never had it go to sleep in my hand. Maybe I drink too much coffee.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 19, 2016, 07:41:07 pmCannot find nano on newark webside, and price for pico is ridiculous. On EU farnell they cost quiet differently.

author: sainter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 05:54:54 am
content: I bought mine here:http://www.lokmita.lt/elektronikos-gamyba/litavimui/stoteles/antistatines-litavimo/greitaveike-skaitmenine-antistatine-litavimo-stotele-i-con-nano-su-greitai-kaistanciu-lituokliu-i-tool-nano-0ic1200a.html]http://www.lokmita.lt/elektronikos-gamyba/litavimui/stoteles/antistatines-litavimo/greitaveike-skaitmenine-antistatine-litavimo-stotele-i-con-nano-su-greitai-kaistanciu-lituokliu-i-tool-nano-0ic1200a.htmlPrices without VAT.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 06:14:10 am
content: Best prices I have found for Ersa equipment are from this distributor:https://www.ersa-shop.de/index.phpThe website seems to be in German only, but they ship internationally. Prices on the site are incl. 19% VAT. They are an official ERSA distributor and carry the complete line, spare parts etc.. Disclaimer: I have ordered an i-CON 1 station from them and have been happy with the service, but have no other affiliation with them.

author: sainter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:48:30 am
content: I would say, that ERSA soldering stations ar great. Tip selection is through the roof, even for the low end models. It even has a few beef-up ones that have enough thermal mass to desolder larger heat sinks. And 80W of power from i-con nano still gives you only 10-12 s heating up time for this monster tip. (~6s for normal tip).