Review: Atten ADS1102CML 100MHz oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 10:15:48 am
content: Hi all,I recently purchased an Atten ADS1102CML oscilloscope. While I've not yet taken it apart, I did do an extensive review of the features that I use most.The review is here:http://www.cube.co.za/~tva/workbench/atten-ads1102cml/atten-ads-1102cml-review.xhtmlIf there are any other features you want me to test on this scope that I did not cover, let me know and I'll see if I can add them onto the review.Update/Edit:after receiving newer firmware from Atten, most issues are now resolvedUpdate2:--deckert

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 10:35:36 am
content: I'm surprised that given all the issues you still regard it as 'good' for general use.

author: aghp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 10:45:06 am
content: AndAtten made oscolloscopesare not sold also with Siglent name.If they buy something from Siglent and use they own standards this is of course possible. Then they are Atten and not directly comparable to Siglent. (also it can see that HW and FW do not match with Siglent)

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 11:52:32 am
content: Quote from: madworm on July 26, 2012, 10:35:36 amWell, of the five bugs that I listed, only one cannot be worked around (the averaging issue). If you need averaging, then this oscilloscope with the listed firmware is not for you. I don't use averaging, so it pretty much does everything I need and thus I consider it good. Not great or excellent, but good.Since my budget does not allow for an Agilent or Hameg scope, this one does just fine.Also, I found very few reviews of this scope online so I decided to make one available for those that want to make up their own minds. This is the closest other review I could find on the same type of firmware. It mirrors many of my findings:http://cseb.hu/siglent/If there is enough interest, I'll try to make a short video-review for the ADS1102CML. I'd also be interrested to hear if there are newer version of the firmware out there.--deckert

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 12:35:05 pm
content: Seems like the annoying behaviour with no menu response at slow time bases is found in all of those scopes. I mean ADS1022 has it, ADS1102 also does, Siglent scopes also do and Lecroy branded Attens also do (not a surprise, really).Does Rigol 1052 also behave like that?

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 02:41:18 pm
content: Quote from: madworm on July 26, 2012, 10:35:36 amAh.. Should have recognized the famous madworm!Been looking at the WaveAce posts and I'll definitely be testing a few of the bug you found to see if they are also present in this variant of the firmware I have.--deckert

author: aghp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 02:45:50 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on July 26, 2012, 12:35:05 pmWhere from all these bullshit disinformations come.I have Siglent SDS1102CML on my table.What ever time setting, frrom 2.5ns/div up to 50s/div, there come and go menu immediately after push some key what give menu... and also menu functions action immediately. Also things what can adjust using menu or directly from button acts immediately.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2012, 02:53:29 pm
content: Quote from: aghp on July 26, 2012, 02:45:50 pmThis is good info - what version firmware do you have aghp?--deckert

author: aghp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2012, 04:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: Deckert on July 26, 2012, 02:53:29 pmSiglent SDS1102CMLFW:3.01.01.31R18HW:10-61-3.3

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2012, 05:48:44 pm
content: Siglent == DinYoung Technology Company, Ltd, a subsidiary of Atten.And no, I don't work for Rigol. I just don't like to be lied at and deceived.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2012, 06:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: Deckert on July 26, 2012, 02:41:18 pmThe smaller the mosquito, the itchier its sting.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2012, 06:34:51 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 27, 2012, 05:48:44 pmSo what? Volkswagen makes an entire range of cars from high end sports cars (Bugatti) to low cost regular cars (Skoda and Seat). Many companies market different products under different brands.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 11:24:03 pm
content: Quote from: aghp on July 27, 2012, 04:33:05 pmThanks for the above information, aghp. I engaged in a dialogue (in Mandarin) with Siglent and then Atten and they were able to send me the latest firmware (version 3.01.01.31R16) for the hardware version I have. It fixes every single bug I found and adds some new functionality like non-linear accelerated adjustments on the positioning/cursor knobs.I have updated the review with the new findings:http://www.cube.co.za/~tva/workbench/atten-ads1102cml/atten-ads-1102cml-review.xhtml@madworm: I've tested most of the scenarios you had issues with on the LeCroy, including pulse-width triggering (have not yet tested slope triggering) and they all tested out fine.I am now really happy with the performance of the 'scope.The last thing I'd like to try and modify is to replace the time-base crystal/oscillator of the 'scope with a higher quality (more accurate?) one so that it does not display 31.9999MHz, but rather 32.0000MHz in the frequency counter display. Any pointers would be helpful, but I guess it is not that important. :-)--deckert

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 12:32:05 am
content: Good to hear you got a firmware upgrade. I also hope the rest works too ;-)

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 11:23:14 am
content: Good to read deckert has gotten a decent Siglent with the new firmware; how would other potential buyers do the same?

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2012, 11:44:15 pm
content: @saturation: that is certainly a good question. I 'spoke' to Lulu Yin (EU Sales manager for Siglent) who indicated that they are working on new software which is even more improved and the software is slated for release within the next two months, but of course, that is untested and unavailable now.I'd say that if you are in the market for a Siglent SDS1102CML or Atten ADS1102CML (or Xytron DSO1102CML) oscilloscope, make sure that you get at least software version 3.01.01.31R18 (the latest software available at this time) and at least version 10.x hardware likeaghphas.As always, check the hardware and make sure you have some sort of return policy if you're not happy with the received equipment.--deckert

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 02:29:48 pm
content: I wonder if they're going to release the update for 100Mhz only or for lower bandwidths too... Also my version is regular screen size, not enlarged.I would really like to have that low timebase refresh bug fixed....edit: I've just noticed that they no longer even have 'regular' screen size versions on their website... Fuuuukkk....

author: aghp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 03:17:03 pm
content: I have heard from some people who is working in Siglent that they are designing/developing some kind of public update sharing.It is solely that the policy dumb has not been in place for a long time.I do not know timetable and what products are first included.Dumb policy (this is not only Siglent problem) is that public download service has not been finished for a long time.It is quite useless to try to think that somehow it would protect the product when the software updates are not distributed from the very beginning.It is exceedingly difficult to share the upgrade to everybody questioner separately directly from the factory that should be used a lot of resources to more important matters.Also, pretesting of the product should be used a lot more resources. In addition to all the testers should have at least some level of expertise and experience on how the electronic test equipments will operate.The final test should also be use reliable external testers. These testers may not be the same peoples who have designed the device HW and FW. They have always more or less the so-called blind spot.Identified problems should be solved in a systematic and not chaos as is now happening in several manufacturers.When a product is "ready" then the development team is moved to the next project. Then comes the bug reports from customers. Then, when the pressure is too hard, to make someone alerted hastily patching and repair programs. Such an action is irrational if the idea is to achieve some kind of a good reputation in the market. When will Chinese companies learn this.In some Western countries, it has been learned the hard way decades ago in some reputable companies. However, some of them begin to show up dementia symptoms.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2012, 05:22:08 pm
content: Thanks deckert and aghp. I couldn't agree more with aghp, he raises the same questions about their firmware update process. Rigol has not done better, but the 1052e did not have as concerning bugs on its introduction in 2008.I think aghp has been fairly prolific is testing and providing support for Siglent [ I won't go into Siglent = Atten? issue] that makes Siglent ownership a consideration in Finland, using aghp for support; but IMHO the rest of the world would remain caveat emptor or on your own, unless you can find someone similar to aghp locally.

author: SiSco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 12:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on August 13, 2012, 05:22:08 pmAlthough maybe late I still like to share my experience as a brand new Atten ads1102cml customerand I can confirm that:Quote from: zetan on June 04, 2011, 10:11:22 pm... And that it also comes with a usb cable.The Atten ads1102 is indeed a nice little sturdy machine unlike what I also read in posts around the globe. Buttons and dials all respond well and feel nice & smooth. Then again, maybe my demands or expectations are only more in sync with the price of the machine...I also decided on this machine after reading what must be a 1000 posts around the web (that actually should have made me go for an old second hand crt scoop or a Rigol or Owon instead of Atten, since Atten 'catched' a fair amount of plain bad crits -including all sorts of irrelevant remarks, to my opinion-). The most objective review that made the most sense of them all (and maybe the only one in the world that got updated) I thought was the one by Deckert. Thank you Deckert if you're reading this, great review!I just received my ads1102cml yesterday and its looking, feeling and working great (love the wide screen). No crashes, errors, bad sampling or anything that it is not supposed to do at that price. (up to now:) ). Some signals may take some time to scan and store at a high signal resolution or time, but they always appear the way they should. Looks like all the bugs are solved in this shipment. I am now trying to connect to PC via easyscope... and that is where I have my only 'sort of' error. The CD marked easyscope 3.01.03.01.11 does not start up in my PC... (it looks empty) So I was going to find out about the support now I thought... The link via the Atten site was dead so I thought that was not a good sign at all... anyway I mailed to China and about 30 minutes later I received a link with the latest drivers and software in English! Well... so far for the 'bad' support... it gave me an almost instant solution, not bad I thought. Buying and using the atten has given me only double-pleasant suprises up to now, especially with all those negative comments about this powerfull beauty. I'm all smiles with mine. The only thing that annoys me up to now is the fact that I can not push a button with one hand without the machine sliding back on my tableBut maybe I'll ask support for a piece of anti-slip rubber to patch the sliding bug

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 02:59:20 pm
content: Enjoy. Some of those negative criticisms were not unfounded.I saw this video some time ago, not sure which variant of the ADS1102CML it is, but this demo does have odd behavior.You can watch the whole video, if not download it and slow it down to see what this fellow does. What is most obvious is at 2:40. As he runs through various digital filters the processing lags, so on occasion you see the square waves pop up fully unfiltered. On the Rigol, the response for the 1052e is instant, like an analog filter. Also, the appearance of the filtered waveform isn't entirely accurate for what he dials, and unless its the source, the square wave is a bit jittery for 10kHz on a 100MHz scope, not to mention small amplitude variations too.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 04:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: SiSco on October 13, 2012, 12:40:43 pmThan you for your kind remarks!Have you had a look at your hardware and firmware revisions (Utility menu -> System Status)?--deckert

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 04:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on October 13, 2012, 02:59:20 pmAgreed, although to be fair, the Video was uploaded in July of 2011 and quite a few firmware upgrades have become available since then. Doing a quick test on my own ADS1102CML with a 10MHz signal the trigger (wave from) is rock solid and stable. The same goes for the reaction time of the digital filter.--deckert

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2012, 09:37:43 pm
content: That is good news, Deckert, for Atten owners and thanks to your diligence. In the end, Atten has improved a lot since 2011, so if you receive an older firmware version and yours acts like this 2011 video, there is a solution.Quote from: Deckert on October 13, 2012, 04:35:48 pm

author: nzCdog
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 11:29:40 pm
content: Nice review, thanks

author: Herman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2012, 02:36:12 am
content: Quote from: Deckert on August 12, 2012, 11:44:15 pmSiglent have updated their website.Now you can download the newest firmware at Download Centerhttp://www.siglent.com/en/server/download.aspx?nodecode=119004002006.But maybe you need registration before you download. I download the newest firmware,it's 3.01.01.31R18.

author: sdaau
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 02:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: Deckert on August 10, 2012, 11:24:03 pmMany thanks for the nice page and the updates, @Deckert!As I found this page by looking for firmware 3.01.01.31R16, I hope it's OK to post here:I would just like to report a bug I found with Atten ADS1202CL+, also with firmware 3.01.01.31R16 - and that is, if you try to do "UTILITY"/"Do Self-Cal" while the triggering mode is Normal - then the whole procedure freezes at the first step "doing CH2 AD Offset cal ..." and the scope then needs to be turned off and on, as all buttons stop reacting. The workaround here is to make sure that the scope's triggering mode is set to Auto before doing self-calibration (which is notable after a reboot where your Self-Cal froze - since after reboot, the scope will remember it was in Normal mode previously, and will stay in that mode - causing a subsequent self-calibration to fail - until changed to Auto mode...)Btw, if you haven't seen it by now, please check out the thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/attenload-please-report-here-if-your-atten-%28or-related%29-scope-works/... it may beattenloadcould be working with other scopes noted in this thread.Btw, it's a shame Atten don't have firmware for download anywhere (unlike Siglent) - and I've tried atten.com.cn, attenelectronics.com and atten.eu ... (and I'd rather not try to burn Siglent firmwares on the Atten, and ending up bricking the device)Cheers!

author: bithead9
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 12:39:04 am
content: I have copies of the following for anyone that needs:ADS1000CAL Series_Software Version 3.0_V100R003B01D01P31R16.zipADS1000CL+ Series_Software Version 3.0_V100R003B01D01P31R16.zipADS1202CML_.zipeasyscope_v3.01.03.01.09_en.zipEasyScopeX_Win7.zPM me.