Help choosing a microscope - Leica S9/Ivesta or Zeiss Stemi 508 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: chephato
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:14:31 am
content: I am upgrading to the next level for my next microscope and am looking for something with better image quality, especially in the corners and edges than my current Amscope.Currently stuck between the Leica S9 (or as the new version is called "Ivesta") or a Zeiss Stemi 508.Has anyone used either or both and can share what they think about it/them?These will be used for microsoldering work.Trinocular option is essential for me if that makes any difference.I noticed that on the Leica the camera attachment is at an obvious angle to the clockwise which makes it look slightly weird whereas the attachment is straight in the middle on the Zeiss.A boom stand will be used for mounting.Price wise they are priced similarly.

author: points2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:23:11 am
content: Hiyou go from "next level" from "what" scope ?here is joke or what ?if no jerk, please explain

author: chephato
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:24:45 am
content: Quote from: points2 on December 13, 2023, 12:23:11 amNo joke.Did you read the first line? I said "... than my current Amscope" so clearly currently I have an Amscope and want to go next level from it.

author: KrzysztofB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:17:08 pm
content: If you don't mind bla bla in Polish, here is a link with some examples of video caputred with Leica while looking on laptop PCB / BGAshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2MUjZp4yv8ATdKRC-pZKhYdrdYNO0H2PhlL6xLzjMCoH6H9ZObKOnZyc4&v=4uMDJKANDjk&feature=youtu.be

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 12:38:18 pm
content: The specified working distance is larger on the Leica -- 122 mm vs. 92 mm for the Zeiss. Not sure whether you can change that by using different optics, or what other caveats might apply. But since neither working distance seems generous to me, that would tip the balance in favor of the Leica if I had to choose.(Not that I have to; my personal price range for a microscope is way lower.My cheap fixed-magnification "Swift" stereo microscope certainly can't hold a candle to either Zeiss or Leica when it comes to image quality, but it has a pleasantly large 200 mm working distance.)

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 02:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: chephato on December 13, 2023, 12:14:31 amHave you seenthis threadin whichLukegoeventually settled on an S9?You can add an auxiliary objective to the Ivesta 3 to increase its standard 122mm working distance.

author: chephato
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 06:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: KrzysztofB on December 13, 2023, 12:17:08 pmAle trafilismy, akurat ja mowie po Polsku i rozumiem co ten facet mowi.Thanks for the video link.To summarize what's being said in the video, the guy in the video is praising the quality of the optics and says he can see details he couldn't see before on his previous microscope. He also says the boom stand he's using is not the Leica boom stand.I noted that he has the integrated camera version of the Ivesta.It is cheaper than the trinocular version ("D" version) but I heard from elsewhere that the quality of the integrated camera is lacking, at least it was the case on the S9i. Also some people commented elsewhere that the integrated camera on the S9i had quite a delay to the point it was impossible to solder under. Wonder if that's still the case. Although the tech specs say you can connect using HDMI so maybe the delay was USB-related which is no more? Hmmm... well the guy in the linked video didn't mention that as a problem. Looks like he has his connected via HDMI so maybe that's the solution.Although I see, at least in the linked video, that it is pretty good. Perhaps Leica has put in a better integrated camera when they moved from S9 to Ivesta.Integrated camera makes the whole setup more compact for sure. But what if it breaks and its a no-fix. Does one need to spend a fortune to Leica to get them to service a replacement camera in there?All in all, I don't think one can go wrong choosing the Ivesta. But as it compares to the Zeiss Stemi... still up for discussion.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2023, 10:43:21 pm
content: Why are you getting a stereo microscope if you will be soldering using the HDMI image? Unless you are a youtuber.Maybe you can post some details and photos of the image quality issues you saw on the amscope.IMO things like: zoom range, ergonomics, working distance, FOV are more important to consider here.Asked to move to the correct forum:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/

author: chephato
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 01:51:44 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on December 13, 2023, 10:43:21 pmUnder a microscope, two things are possible: soldering and inspection.Sure, for soldering you use the eyepieces.But for inspection, don't you prefer to take your eyes off and look at a big monitor looking straight ahead of you?If you are shopping and can get a microscope that can give you both abilities, why wouldn't you want that?Do you lose anything by getting a microscope with external monitor viewing capability? No.Amscope are not bad but they are value oriented.Mostly the lenses are not planar and hence the image gets distorted as you move away from the center.I personally can't stand it when I have a large image in front of me but realistically only the middle part is useful.Don't think I need to prove this to you with actual images.I hope my answer makes you happy.I get the impression, by the tone of your post, that you are having a bad day.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 07:51:18 am
content: I thinkthm_wis just trying to help out, but he is having the same difficulty I am: we do not know what problem(s) you are trying to solve, by as you put it, upgrading to the next level. In concrete terms, we lack a clear and complete set of requirements – and unless we get the information to create that, we have to resort to largely wasted guesswork. Who needs that? I would hope not even you.So, here is my next guess after yesterday's went nowhere. Why are you looking at microscopes with non-plan objectives when you can't stand images in which realistically only the middle part is useful?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2023, 10:51:58 pm
content: Quote from: chephato on December 14, 2023, 01:51:44 amFor rough inspection or documentation of hundreds of units yes, monitor is good. For close detailed solder joint inspection of rework, I would rather have the stereo image of a microscope or Mantis or similar with good ergonomics. Of course, its personal preference, a lot of people here solder with 2D.QuoteYes that makes sense now, you are talking about the image quality using the trinocular port only then?The Leica ivesta video quality looks good, but honestly no better than a camera that can be had for $150-300 from aliexpress (~300 also gets you autofocus). So its up to you if you want a camera fully integrated into the unit, and pay a bit extra for that.Quotethank you, negative tone was not intended.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 08:34:09 am
content: Quote from: chephato on December 14, 2023, 01:51:44 amWhat model microscope do you have? Amscope sells all sorts.I was using a different stereo microscope this morning, at maximum magnification, to inspect and document a flat specimen, and thought of three issues you may be experiencing. Could you show or describe the distortion you are suffering? I most likely have zero experience with your microscope so assume I have no idea what you are seeing.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 02:08:09 pm
content: I have 4 high resolution microscopes in my shop. Three AO/Reichert 580s (.7 to 6x). One at each assembly bench and one over the small lathe. I work to .0005 mm.The other is a B&L StereoZoom 7 (.7 to 9x) with the camera mount for inspection and customer documentation. This is on the traditional desk stand with transmitted and reflective lighting for checking jewels at 60X.The B&L while a great scope, has a very long body making it unsuitable for bench work. However, this was the scope of choice when paired with the 15x Ultras for use by US photo reconnaissance agencies. Also, the square body of the SZ7 required an optional mounting head to provide for head rotation.The 4th scope is a fixed mag Olympus over my Schaublin 102.I used to buy and sell scopes to watchmakers as a service (really). This was 20 years ago during the transition from optical imaging to digital. Five year old $3K scopes for $150 USD.Here is what I know. A good LED/Halogen lamp is more flexible than a ring light. Get a boom mount that enables the head to rotate and has an articulation joint. This enables the microscope to be adjusted to you, rather than you adjusting to the scope.And forget about the light sources that were normally supplied. I have a box of em and they do not compare to a high power Ikea desk lamp.Get the best eyepieces possible. Only one pair. I have the B&L 15X Ultrawides on the two assembly scopes. They are the brightest and are sought after by amateur astronomers. Otherwise, look for Nikon or Olympus eyepieces.Change your mag range with an auxiliary objective, not the eyepieces. Read about exit pupil.For documentation, you do not NEED a camera port. Use one eyetube for the camera. For recording, both AO and B&L had attachments that were not cumbersome.Working distance is easily increased with a .75 or . 5 auxiliary lens. But the standard WD works for me at the bench and the lathes. I have not tried soldering under the scope.Oh, avoid scopes (or check very carefully) with tags from electronics manufacturers. Solder fumes coat the optics. Prefer scopes with property tags from academic institutions. And the AOs had gaskets at every assembly point. Very tightly sealed and still the fumes got in.Thirty years ago Russian and Chinese scopes were horrible. The Amscopes seem to be very successful today.This success could be because quality high resolution scopes like AO, B&L, Nikon, Olympus, Mejie (?), Leica (bought B&L), etc have all found homes. I did a quick search on eBay and such scopes are now hard to find and expensive making them too much of a crap shoot.Have a friend on the faculty check the back of the supply closet.But, optical designs haven't changed much in the last 30 years. A well-treated 30-year-old scope will not be easily distinguished from a recent scope. My son in law's father was the Microbiology Dept Chair of a research university and he shakes his head every time he looks at my scopes.Regards,Dewey

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 03:43:25 pm
content: So is this yourwatchmaking website? I have sent a couple enthusiasts there that had asked about watchmaking microscopes, and both said it was very helpful.All the microscopes you mention, and I am guessing, the OP's, have Greenough optics which may not be the OP's beer. I await his or her response.

author: Martinn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 05:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: chephato on December 13, 2023, 12:14:31 amI have purchased a handful of Zeiss Stemi 2000 for SMT work. A barlow lens 0.63x works best IMO for soldering. Image quality is gorgeous, as one would expect at that price point.I would not recommend using the standard stand for the Stemi 508, we always turned the base of the Stemi 2000 to the back (and put a large counterweight on it) to get a flat working surface.Maybe consider getting a used Stemi 2000. Don't forget the barlow lens, this will be expensive as genuine part.You might also consider the Olympus SZ series, like SZ30*, SZ40* or SZ60* (e.g. SZ4045). They are used as machine microscopes and you get them used at very low prices from asia. Chinese eye pieces have reached a quite good quality for a very low price, get WF 10x/22 for example. They have an excellent image quality. Zoom range increases with type number (as does cost). Again use a barlow lens, otherwise field of view will be rather narrow.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2023, 05:52:34 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on December 17, 2023, 03:43:25 pmGuilty as charged. After 40 years I am looking at EE as a new interest. But I intend to keep the website paid for since it seems others find it helpful. I may change it to show the current shop (applied all my lessons learned over the years to my new digs).Right now my electronics lab is temporary until I get the kinks worked out. But I am 90% there.Dewey