Apple is locking batteries to iPhones to prevent repairs! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 12:28:35 am
content: https://www.ifixit.com/News/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-iphones-now#wppost-comments-container

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 12:51:48 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 09, 2019, 12:47:23 amthat would explain a non-apple battery not getting authorized, but taking the genuine battery from a brand newiphone won't either

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 01:04:38 am
content: Full Rant:

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 01:27:15 am
content: They'll get challenged for the 'right to repair'.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 02:46:47 am
content: Are they under some obligation to let you replace the battery? It's a real dick move and one more reason not to use their phones but I don't *think* this is a legal issue(yet). They are going to lose money if other people can and do repair the phones rather than them doing it. Do they ship these back to have work done or do they actually do things in house? Don't like it then don't support them is all I can say. This is definitely one of those cases where it's not hard to do.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 04:52:00 am
content: From my understanding, the phone is still usable in that state. I suppose they could make a new update that cripples it, but that would be asking for legal problems and even more backlash.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 09:02:00 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 09, 2019, 01:33:13 amIf that were true, then taking a battery from an identical product should work, but it isn't, they are tieing the battery to the actual product.Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 11:54:17 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 09, 2019, 09:02:00 amAs an example, laptop batteries with BMS have always been swappable, and the same goes for those infamous Dell PSUs with a 1-wire ROM.The "safety" thing is bullshit too, you can use a DW01+MOSFET like all the "good" products do.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 12:05:04 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 09, 2019, 09:02:00 amActually, according to what I understand Louis was saying, such a replacement batterywilldo everything a new battery is meant to do: charge and supply power to the phone. The only thing that appears to be happening is that the battery "health" report is not reflecting the true state of affairs.QuoteThat is one possibility. Another is that the battery health reporting routine will not automatically reset upon replacement of the battery, but will need some form of "resetting" action - presumably with some proprietary Apple secret sauce software that is not (and never will be) made available to the outside world.As Louis has said, the continued display of the poor battery health report even after a good battery has been fitted is an excellent mechanism for customers to develop distrust of any independent repairer. This is not just a move to restrict the business of repair to Apple only - but can constitute a deliberate ploy to undermine a complete industry.But .... would Apple be so underhanded?

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 01:17:42 pm
content: Nothing surprises me with Apple. They built their entire business model on a proprietary closed secret walled garden philosophy. And you know what... they have billions and billions of dollars in cash and one of the highest valued companies in the world to show for it. Obviously it means nothing to consumers, otherwise Apple would have suffered from this tactic long ago.The number of times people have to change their batteries during the useful lifetime of their phone (i.e. until it is rendered "obsolete" by various technological advances, phone-upgrades with their cellular plans, software OS update limitations, etc) is relatively small. I don't see this happening very often. Most people will be chucking their phones, breaking them some other way, or finding them too "slow" (due to throttling in software or other battery-age-related Apple voodoo) far before they will start complaining about their battery life. That is, unless there is some manufacturing defect and then Apple should be providing free or heavily subsidized upgrades (like they did recently to some of their devices).Thankfully we have choices. Let Apple continue to do what it wants, and if people don't like it they can choose NOT to use Apple products. Apple wants to control every aspect of the user experience, from start to finish. They will do whatever they can to make sure only "Apple Certified Repair" centres can do any repairs, and the heck to all 3rd parties that don't want to play in that system, "fair" or not. Fortunately we have people like Louis Rossmann (I watched the full rant video) around to continue to work around the system, and the "right to repair" movement making it's way through the industry, but that is more of a GENERAL BATTLE with regards to consumer rights versus corporate power.Ultimately we may end up not legally "owning" any Apple products in the future, but perhaps be given some kind of fair-use permission... the way music and other media content is going. People will pay a subscription, the item will technically belong to Apple and they will give you the right to use it under their terms and conditions. Printers have long locked people into using their own brand ink/toner, with ever-more sophisticated chips to thwart 3rd party suppliers and software lock-outs. I think they already have printer subscriptions straight from the manufacturer where you are basically getting supplies automatically ordered and varying discounts on the printer if you buy a certain amount per year (free printer if you promise to buy certain quantities of supplies annually). Perhaps Apple will do something similar.Cellular phone carriers (at least in North America) have long hidden the cost of phones in their plans, which is why people fork over $80-90 per month (when the actual phone service is $40) but get a heavily subsidized or even free iPhone. Obviously the remaining $50/month over 2 years is the value of the "free" hardware and then some. They would think twice if they had to pay up $1000+ at the time of their plan renewal. By squeezing consumers slowly on a monthly basis they can pay way more out but not feel it, so these companies would prefer to lock people in to long-term payment plans, subscriptions, etc... I assume AppleCare would cover this kind of stuff, they would prefer to make everyone be on it... It's only a matter of time until it gets factored in to the costs somehow or gets added in as a monthly payout. Full service coverage from all aspects, you pay for it.If you want control, more choices, the ability to hack and modify and repair more easily, you have many more options but Apple is not one of them.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 01:35:32 pm
content: This seems to be a positive development. By doing highly visible things like these Apple is effectively lobbying for a right to repair bill.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 01:45:48 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 09, 2019, 01:27:15 amSure it would challenge the right to repair, but let's not entirely deny the potential safety issues either. LiPo batteries are still definitely dangerous stuff if not built and handled properly. Many "random" chinese batteries you can find on eBay or similar have been proven unsafe by many independent testers.It even poses regulatory issues. If the manufacturer officially supported replacing batteries, that would be an integral part of the product's design. And compliance to the required safety standards would be possible ONLY if the manufacturer can prove that the replacement batteries have been all tested properly with the product itself. It's a mess. Really not that simple.Failures due to LiPo batteries (overheating, fire...) still unfortunately happen on a regular basis even with very recent gear. It's not been definitively solved, so this is a real issue, not just fantasy.IMO, a manufacturer really offering the right to repair and still perfectly complying with regulatory requirements should provide a direct way and approved way for users to be able to replace the batteries themselves: easy access (not potentially destructive), official replacement batteries (or at least a list of alternative references that are officially supported), etc.Letting users do whatever they please to attempt "fixing" their equipment is all nice, but it poses a myriad of safety concerns.Opinions of qualified engineers have two sides. Of course they will be well informed, but at the same time biased. What any well-trained EE would find pretty safe and mundane would not necessarily be if you let the average Joe do it.Just a few thoughts. Not implying either that Apple does everything right, but the question is definitely not a trivial one.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 03:05:24 pm
content: it's so disgusting

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2019, 11:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 09, 2019, 01:45:48 pmDo you have any sources for those claims? In fact the most memorable incidents of widespread battery explosions and fires have been from reputable manufacturers, including Sony over a decade ago and more recently Samsung.Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 09, 2019, 01:45:48 pmBullshit excuse. The manufacturer is only responsible for safety of products that it has manufactured and can't (more likeshouldn't) be for the actions of any third-party. If someone breaks the screen on his phone and cuts his hand on it, or replaces the battery and burns down his house, or beats someone to death with it, the manufacturer is completely innocent.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 12:18:22 am
content: I can buy that there is a potential safety issue, but I don't believe that was their motivation here.On one hand this sort of thing ticks me off, on the other hand I've pretty much decided my SE will be my last iPhone anyway unless something changes in the direction Apple is going. I bought into the iPhone originally because it was a compact well designed phone that offered reasonable performance and a nice display in a nice small package with a really slick polished UI and it was relatively bug-free.Now they are making gigantic phones with clunky designs like that butt ugly notch in the screen that compromise functionality for fashion. The OS for years now has had the same sort of fugly flat style and inconsistencies as Android and no longer stands out. It has gotten progressively more buggy as each version adds features I don't need and new bugs, never fixing the existing glaring faults such as reminders being so unreliable that I can no longer rely on them at all. The only thing keeping me on it for now is that I've already bought into the ecosystem with a bunch of apps, but if I give in and allow iOS to update to the latest version I'll lose a number of the apps I care about because they're 32 bit only and have been abandoned. When it comes time for a new phone I'm coming up short on compelling reasons for it to be another iPhone. Used to be the locked down nature and lack of installable storage was a reasonable trade for other aspects but most of those other aspects are now gone.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 06:11:13 am
content: I'm out too.My current 6s will be mylast iPhone.I actually (April) bought a Motorola (Lenovo) G6 for $170 , to try out Android.It was a lot cheaper that the OnePlus, my wife has.First impression .. I like it , It's not filled w. bloatware , and have received regular updates (3 times) , including Android 9.My friend got the G7 , and he loves it. It's the latest Moto G phone.https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/10/18304664/motorola-moto-g7-power-play-review-budget-affordable-android-phonesI like the iPhone(s) , have had 4 (from 3G to 6s) . But they're becoming to expensive , and i DON'T like Apples repair policies.Wrt. Google snooping a lot in Android , it's true by default. But you can "Tame" it a lot on the phone and on your google account. (If Google honours the settings)If the Librem5 gets a good takeoff , i might consider that later on. But that would be from a security point only.But for now i actually like the Moto-G6, as you get so much functionality for the $$.I'm not a "heavy" phone user , but the G6 does all that i used my iPhone for.I'm using Signal and Telegram , as an Apple "Blue SMS/Facetime" replacement , they does a nice job./Bingo

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 02:29:09 pm
content: What a lot of fuss about nothing, not to mention a click-baity title.This is of no practical consequence whatsoever!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 02:37:57 pm
content: Quote from: stevelup on August 10, 2019, 02:29:09 pmIt discredits all battery replacements done by 3rd party. IMHO it's pretty big consequence.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 02:45:37 pm
content: Sony, the inventor of mass-scale lithium ion battery manufacturing, was DRM'ing their batteries in the 1990's, for the very first li-ion battery generations! Back then, li-ion was like space technology, all locked down, and expensive as hell.Apple is just very late to the party.Safety was the excuse then, and it still is.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 02:56:17 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on August 10, 2019, 02:45:37 pmThe safety excuse it ruled out when Apple OEM batteries can't be swapped between phones.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 04:33:34 pm
content: There's no legal way of getting hold of OEM Apple batteries in the first place so it's a moot point.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 04:41:54 pm
content: If I buy a refurb product I want to know it has a genuine screen and battery in it or not. This is fine with me. In some circumstances i.e. tail end lifespan phones I don't care what has been put in it but if it's a relatively new one with a price premium I want to know.The things they're really trying to kill off are:1. when someone buys a contract phone and turns it in for a replacement and the contract supplier throws out a refurb done by their 3rd party slave farms using crap parts from the lowest bidder. Then it busts again so they take it to Apple. Apple tell them to fuck off or pay up because it has been meddled with.2. someone actually buys a phone from Apple retail, a 3rd party repairer botches the repair and they take it to apple.I know sooooo many people who have taken their phones to a 3rd party repairer who have destroyed it or put junk parts in. It's a total minefield. Some of the repairs are absolutely horrific. A friend of mine actually had a Sony handset repaired and they put a 3rd party screen on where the LCD was bonded at a slight angle. When they took it to another third party repairer to get that sorted, they found the first lot had basically broken all the clips off opening it and just poured epoxy in it to get the new screen to stay putScrew right to repair complainers here. You can repair shit if you want. That's fine. this doesn't stop you. It does however stop people getting screwed by half arsed refurb outfits and refurb factories fitting non OEM crap to devices and trying to pass it off as a quality refurb which it isn't.But you know, APPLE BAD, FUCK APPLE. Blah blah blah. haters gonna hate. Especially if it brings you business and YT views.Same people don't complain when they have to pay 40% of the value of their car for a part which needs replacing because they drove it into a treeQuote from: bingo600 on August 10, 2019, 06:11:13 amWait until you have a warranty repair done. Then you'll find out what a steaming turd of a support network is behind the Moto handsets. Lowest bidder repairers. Problem? Not cost effective for them to repair it so well we just set off the water damage indicator (which was checked and photographed before sending it off) and return it with a £50 handling fee. Bye bye warranty. This happened to me.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 05:11:36 pm
content: Quote from: stevelup on August 10, 2019, 04:33:34 pmfrom broken phones that isn't worth repairing?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 05:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 10, 2019, 02:56:17 pmStill not ruled out. If anything, it enforces that even more. Not only does that make non-genuine batteries impossible to use (well, until someone cracks it), but that also makes the repair itself impossible (except maybe at Apple where they probably have the tools to reprogram the whole thing to accept a new battery). The repair itself can be a safety hazard if not done right on those phones in which everything is packed extremely tight. It's very easy to poke into the used battery while trying to remove it, or twist it, possibly making it very unsafe.I agree with bd139. You guys don't seem to realize how bad third-party repairs can go and especially how much harm it can do to a brand. Even if the manufacturer doesn't directly support third-party repairs, in which case many people think "it's ok, the liability is all on the person who does it, who cares?" It doesn't work that way in practice. Look at how many people have been repairing iPhones. I think even Apple never expected that to happen. If millions of products get "fixed" by third-parties and end up catching on fire or something, that WILL hurt the manufacturer's image and reputation.The refurb products point is also a good one. One thing to consider is the market it could represent, especially in poorer countries in which Apple is trying to sell. It would completely kill this opportunity for them.The car example is interesting too. Actually, most people don't care for a right to repair in general. They only care when they think they CAN repair the thing (most people probably wouldn't feel comfortable fixing their own car even if that was possible.) Problem is with the "CAN".I'm all for the right to repair, but if you want a phone that can be repaired, buy one such phone. There are still a few on the market that are much easier to repair than iPhones, even have removable batteries, etc. They don't look as sexy though. It would be unfair to the customer if Apple didn't clearly state you can't repair their phones. But they are pretty open about it. You know what you buy.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 05:31:40 pm
content: Another one is the stolen market. Real life example here. My father in law is a victim of that. Turns up at a local hooky shop and buys an iphone 6 plus. Yes he's an idiot but he doesn't make a lot of money and wants an iPhone because it's what he knows how to use. Great stuff £200 no questions asked. After a week, 1/4 of the right side of the screen packs in. Takes it back to the shop who tell him no warranty - £150 for a new screen and fuck off (standard independent shop policy and they're gone before you can sue them and only deal cash and no receipts here). He's not the sort of guy to argue with them. Guy tells him to leave. So comes to me to "have a look at it". Hmm suspicious, looking at the iCloud account, name is Japanese not his. Turns out the thing has someone else's iCloud account still assigned to it and we can't work out the password and TouchID doesn't work. Also battery only lasts 3 hours max. Got him to take it to the Apple Store and they confirmed the IMEI number was not the one that matched the serial number on the case and the IMEI belonging to that serial number was blacklisted.Goes to police to report it. They do precisely fuck all. He's out of pocket for £200, has a half working stolen phone with a hooky screen and a bad case of depression.The whole repair, second hand and bottom end of the market, which is where most of the repairs take place is the pits of hell.Saying that I just bought a refurb 32Gb iPhone 7 for one of my kids today. I'd like to know if it's a turd or not. Fortunately I'm sensible enough to buy it from a sensible place, on a credit card and I have insurance to cover total replacement if she smashes it.On SiliconWizard's phone repair point; I've replaced several iPhone/iPad batteries now and home buttons etc. Yes. This is beyond the average person. Most people do precisely ZERO repair of any kind to anything and the notion that they can manipulate a delicate electrical item first time with no practice, no muscle memory for the tools which are the worst things on the planet if they come with the "repair kit" and no dexterity is laughable. Cue my nephew's broken Galaxy S4 where he tried to repair it himself and fucked it up.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 08:06:59 pm
content: Some disturbingly authoritarian opinions here...

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 09:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: edy on August 09, 2019, 01:17:42 pmExcept no.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 09:59:24 pm
content: Hmm. Indeedhttps://opensource.apple.com/

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 10:04:09 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 10, 2019, 05:13:34 pmYour car example perfectly illustrates why safety is a bullshit excuse. People have been doing very involved things with cars for literally a century now. Cars are obviously way more likely to kill someone if they get it wrong. Is it a problem? Not to any relevant degree. Neither are people blowing themselves up in droves with hooky self repaired phones. It's simply a bullshit excuse. Not to mention it's a very slippery slope as consumers would have to be protected against all kinds of minor repairs. Better make that light bulb non replaceable, it's mains voltage after all.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 10:50:44 pm
content: The HVAC industry also seems to be very against DIY with them claiming that it's not safe to DIY. Yet the examples they could come up with are nowhere as safety critical as, for example, replacing the brake pads on your car.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 11:31:23 pm
content: Read the video text then come back to me about safety.https://youtu.be/WZvCV_Eom8s

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 12:36:14 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 10, 2019, 11:31:23 pmMillions of people are walking around with aftermarket batteries in their phones. It's just not a problem to any relevant degree.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 01:08:08 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 11, 2019, 12:36:14 amand millions of cars drive around with aftermarket tires/wheels/brakes/suspension etc. etc.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:07:55 am
content: We have yearly government mandated vehicle safety checks here. They validate that the vehicle and workmanship is fit for purpose. Also all the parts have to comply with EU and UK regulations. Lots of vehicles fail. Lots of parts are recalled.This exists because all those “its not a problem” scenarios turned out to be a problem that was killing people.As for the US, half the vehicles there are dangerous as fuck. Wasn’t it Florida who introduced safety checks and you lot had a hissy fit over it?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:10:58 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on August 11, 2019, 12:36:14 amApart from when someone buys one second hand and is unaware of this and thinking they are getting something that hasn’t been meddled with.This is the argument.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 10:54:36 am
content: Let the wood ducks blow dough on their iOBEY phones,what they don't know can't hurt them,especially when it's a new battery for their life support iDeviceHey, do these things still allow you to make phone calls, text messages, photo snapsand query where the closest phone repair kiosk and dunnies are?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 12:22:14 pm
content: To group all third party repairers into a single bucket and demonise them as a whole is an untenable attitude, IMHO.If we apply the same logic to motor vehicles, then all the independent mechanics should be run out of town and you must take your vehicle to the manufacturer's authorised service centre. Likewise, we should round up all the independent washing machine repairers and tell householders to only deal with the manufacturer. This list can go on as long as you like.If it comes down to it, if we want to properly apply the fundamental principle here - then nobody here should ever repair anything, unless trained by and in the service of the manufacturer. It's just not safe!If you think this is being silly - then you've just killed the argument for the "end of third party repair".The real issue here is NOT third party repairers - it is the shonky operators. These are found in EVERY corner of the world in every industry, so let's not get all righteous for a reason that just does not hold up.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 12:39:53 pm
content: Hence regulation...In all areas there are a lot more shonky than good operators.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 01:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 10, 2019, 11:31:23 pmThis is something that could happen to anyone, even with a genuine Apple replacement battery, things can and do go wrong. Seeing as the phone was on the dash, in full sunlight, it might have just simply overheated due to the sun. Screens can also be cooked in the sunlight and infact in the owners manuals they actually state that the phone should not left in full sunlight and or in extremely hot locations and being behind glass in a car, on dash is just about the worst possible place for a phone to be.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 01:55:22 pm
content: Not necessarily.It's not just a battery. There's a BMS, NTC thermistor, protection MOSFET, current sense resistor and polyfuse in the battery pack. All the protection stuff is in the battery.Ergo, you're throwing the entire safety decision onto a market which the objective is to undercut the next guy and the entire market is a race to the bottom. Stupid decision to make. Corners get cut. You get the cheapest battery they can get their hands on to keep their margins up. To undercut the next supplier, expect the above protection features to be half arsed as well. Most bottom end stuff from China sacrifices such things entirely to undercut the next guy. Look at the average power bank you get - literally no idea what you are getting.Average clone battery and install is £30. Major chains are £40. You can get an official replacement done with a genuine battery for £45 in an Apple Store same day turnaround. I don't get the value proposition here.If you leave an iphone on the hot dash, which I've done many times before, it'll shut itself down into a low power state, stop charging and tell you that it needs to cool down. But does it if the NTC above is just a standard resistor because it was one milli-yuan cheaper?

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 03:17:03 pm
content: All of which can fail, yes I understand the argument about clones and cheaper batteries that may or may not have these parts in them, but the point being made in the video was that even if you have an identical brand new and sealed phone, just purchased from your local Apple store, the same battery will not work in another brand new and sealed phone purchased from the same Apple shop. That has zero to do with the BMS and is all about restricting any attempt to repair / replace the battery to an Apple store. Some Apple stores will happily replace the battery for you and others will come with all kinds of reasons why they can't or wont do this and instead want you to purchase a new phone.There are documented cases of some stores even claiming that new Macbook Pros, only a few months old that fail due to manufacturing defects have been refused repair claiming that the machines have suffered liquid damage when they have not and these things cost £1,000 plus.Samsung had an issue once with some batteries bursting into flames from the factory so it can happen to anyone. I do seriously treat Apple with suspicion and that is as an Apple user myself. Either you own your own phone etc or you are leasing it and if you are leasing it, then they need to upgrade your phone FOC at regular intervals and lower the costs. If you own it, then it is yours to do with it what you want.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 04:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2019, 01:55:22 pmIn the manuals I have seen it makes no distinction between on charge or in use about its warning to leave the device in excessive heat spots and car dashes in direct sunlight, through glass is about the hottest place that you are ever likely to leave a device in without even giving it as much as a second thought. The batteries and LCD screens are just 2 things it is never a good idea to place in such a location regardless whether the device is on charge or even switched off because the heat can rise above the safe recommended maximum temperature for these items. In that case it makes not a jot difference if you have a NTC or a resistor fitted because if the device is neither charging or being used, the NTC etc can do zero to protect it, and if it did display the warning but you ignored it, or were not present to see it and respond, what happens then?If we had to take our cars back to the makers own chain of stores to replace the battery on them when the time came, how happy would you be, especially if the nearest was some miles away from and you needed a new one fitted out of hours or at weekends or even as a result of a breakdown on route to somewhere, pretty pissed off I bet.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 04:08:56 pm
content: Currently updating to the latest version of Windoze 10 on my Intel I7 laptop, so fecking slow, I could mow the lawns and cook lunch before it finishes and considering I can't cook, I'd even have time to learn how to cook before this thing finishes....come on...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 04:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2019, 09:10:58 amThat argument would apply to any and all consumer devices and it obviously doesn't. Maybe we'll just pot all regular house lights for fear of someone rewiring one unsafely and selling it on. We can go back and forth endlessly but mobile phones are not a special case and the safety reasoning is a bullshit excuse. I can hardly believe people are arguing for a world where any modifications to your equipment are off limits.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 05:32:12 pm
content: I’m arguing for a world where the manufacturer can tell you to piss off on a warranty if you meddle with it and a world where you can find out if what you’re buying is legit.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 06:16:14 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2019, 05:32:12 pmI think that already is the case that the manufacturer can tell you to piss off on a warranty if you have meddled with it. But once out of warranty, you should be able to fit after market or original parts if you can get your hands on them. The fact that you cannot actually buy original Apple parts is itself in my view a huge no no. How many people will religiously always fit the original even when the warranty has expired? The same argument could be had that it is a safety issue with cars but I don't know of a single country where a manufacturer of a car could get away such restrictive practises, even changing the tyres can seriously alter the safety of a car making less stable in the wet and icy conditions, seriously have adverse affect on the stopping distance in an emergency and or the grip. I know that my car has different tyres to the original fitment and maybe even the brake pads might be after market ones for all I know.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 06:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 11, 2019, 06:16:14 pmand car manufacturers cannot make warranty dependent on using their authorized shops to do service

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 06:47:51 pm
content: And that kind of was my point, if car makers cannot make their warranty conditional on only using their appointed agents for servicing and repairs, why the hell can a mobile phone maker??

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 07:18:14 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 11, 2019, 06:47:51 pmthe car makers did until consumer organizations got the laws changed

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 07:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on August 10, 2019, 09:47:34 pmQuote from: bd139 on August 10, 2019, 09:59:24 pmI stand corrected. I didn't realize how much Apple has open-sourced... very interesting.Still I think when it comes to their hardware they very much want to have control over everything and will protect it however way they see fit, including making sure only 3rd party repair centres that abide by their rules can do it... hence the need to become an Apple authorized repair centre. Last I checked, Louis Rossmann was not an Apple "authorized" repair centre and so he was having trouble getting parts, had some seized on importing, etc.Yes I realize there is a higher cost involved in purchasing Apple-only parts on becoming Apple-authorized, etc... and Louis doesn't want to deal with that bull and to be more competitive he can get around Apple and still fix things independently. I applaud him for his genius and valiant heroic effort in helping out the common man. But at the end of the day, Apple will have and execute the right to make it increasingly difficult. And the battery is just another piece in this cat-and-mouse game. Before long the entire device will have a master table containing the serial number of every single component of the phone (screen, battery, camera, touch ID button, port, etc...) that if changed will require Apple-certified repair centre-only software to change, so no components will be swapable between devices:

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 08:27:09 pm
content: I think you have Louis Rossman all wrong, he actually wants to buy genuine Apple parts but they will not supply him and neither will supply their so called Apple approved agents there has been many recorded incidents where people have taken Apple products to their Apple-certified repair centre only to discover that Apple will not even supply them with the parts required to fix laptops, etc as well. Check out this link and there are other in this long saga, including one where Louis Rossman does fix the Mac Pro computer

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 08:34:46 pm
content: It's rather simple...Apple is striving to be as vertically integrated as possible. This has obvious benefits (especially for platform security), but it also has obvious drawbacks (especially for repairability).I have a feeling that the fraction of iDevice buyers out there who have the know how to purchase and use the tools needed to repair such tightly packaged electronics (assuming, for the sake of argument, that gen-u-wine Apple parts are readily available) is very tiny indeed relative to the whole population.Most people simply don't care if their device is repairable or not.It breaks, they buy another one.I probably have the capability to do such repairs myself; I'd just need to invest in a little bit more equipment for my lab. However, I have no desire to. My hobby interests run towards RF and analog electronics, as well as old test equipment. I'd much rather have Apple fix things first party, so I know I'm not getting counterfeit parts and I don't have to do the legwork. Life is too short to worry about every little thing. IMO, YMMV...

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 08:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on August 11, 2019, 08:27:09 pmThanks for that video... I watched it, pretty shocking. So it doesn't matter much if you are an ASP or independent, it seems like Apple will make it hard on you either way.Long story short, you don't have too many options if you want to fix your Apple devices and when you do, the prices will probably be fairly high. And at the end of the day, consumers have made the choice and by the looks of Apple cash in the bank it seems they aren't suffering at all for this decision (they are happy to fork over their Apple-bucks).I support Louis in all his endeavours but if even ASP's are getting such hard treatment, I don't know what Louis expects. He's probably better off doing his own thing and just dealing with the fallout as it comes along. At least until Apple changes it's ways or consumer law/right to repair movement takes a better foothold. Otherwise it is a free market.... you are free not to buy Apple products, and at least for now free to have Louis repair it.

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:38:31 pm
content: Apple's iPhone sales fell at their steepest-ever rate, according to data for the three months to the end of March.While Apple Service revenue continue to grow at record paceSource:https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48110709

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:42:37 pm
content: That’s because they last longer than the competition and actually have service

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:50:20 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2019, 09:42:37 pmthey are working hard to "fix" that

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2019, 12:22:40 am
content: QuoteSo good and blessed by the OEM's I can't do much like change a battery with a genuine part.QuoteRestrict information because they feel like it?More like"Unable to verify this Apple battery has been replaced by an authorized Apple repair store. Health Information not available to users."Bullshit.https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/08/07/new-service-battery-message-in-ios-pushes-consumers-toward-official-replacementQuoteSounds insulting.I was considering an Iphone many years ago and I was told by someone you wouldn't like it now it is becoming too restricting and eventually they gave theirs away.I replaced a complete screen (with covers and hinges) from a broken down Macbook I found on Ebay last year.Not sure if they are tied down but I can imagine that being a problem for future models.I remembered when they used glue to seal them shut.Now they are making it difficult through software.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2019, 06:31:09 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 11, 2019, 09:42:37 pmThat likely is part of it.Also the latest models have gotten much more expensive, they have made controversial design decisions like removing the headphone jack and the stupid notched screen, and the software has gotten a lot more buggy. I know several people other than my self who are long time iPhone users planning to buy something else when time comes to upgrade.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2019, 08:13:54 am
content: Back in the old days it was normal to make the service manual public.Normally it was/is a complicated document, so only tech people can/could read it.I miss those days so much, and sometime I am so sad when I open those paper scanned pdf today.