Delete Delete Delete - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 04:38:31 pm
content: Delete Delete Delete

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:09:06 pm
content: Normally all that needs to be done is shorting a jumper but if you can't find it. Try disconnecting the power, removing both batteries, the one for the real time clock (on the mother board) and the main battery pack, waiting for 5 minutes, then replacing all the batteries. Hopefully this will reset the BIOS settings in the SRAM.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:12:04 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 06, 2016, 05:09:06 pmNot on laptops, works only on desktop motherboards.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:13:27 pm
content: Hopefully the reset approach works but if it doesn't and you can remove the chip perhaps the password field can be read and rewritten with a chip programmer. There is at least one popular programmer discussed here in the forums that is sold on eBay - it covers many chips; there is a list and you could check to see if your chip is on the list. Might depend on the chip package - not sure how feasible it will be with SMD. Even if it is feasible it might or might not be cost-effective - kind of depends on how much you really want/need to get into the BIOS.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on August 06, 2016, 05:22:20 pmUnderstand, in case you change your mind here is the model from a pretty good seller.http://m.ebay.com/itm/High-speed-MiniPRO-USB-Universal-BIOS-Programmer-TL866CS-including-4-adapters-/221072202503?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253Dda9ab1f54c514682856f53a161d8210b%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D2%2526rkt%253D16%2526mehot%253Dpp%2526sd%253D172260016191&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460There are also other versions of the kit.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 05:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 06, 2016, 05:12:04 pmYes, on laptops too. The Toshiba ones I've seen have it accessible through the RAM bay and labelled B500. Though, I haven't that much contact with Toshiba laptops. Some models have supposedly a single pad that you have to short to ground.

author: KerryW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:04:17 pm
content: In my limited experience, the password was saved in the RAM area of the RTC. You can remove the battery and the password will be lost, along with your system setup information.Or you can edit the information, if you have the right tool.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:10:54 pm
content: Quote from: KerryW on August 06, 2016, 07:04:17 pmI thought that too but apparently it doesn't work for modern laptops.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:33:59 pm
content: Toshibas often have a couple of pads to short near the RAM modules.Removing batteries doesn't work for modern laptops as they store the settings/passwords in non-volatile storage.

author: KerryW
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:55:49 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 06, 2016, 07:10:54 pmThat's not a surprise. The manufacturer has access to the hardware and the BIOS, and can change anything they want. I wrote a program to read/edit the CMOS memory (back in 1995, under DOS) using I/O ports 0x70 & 0x71. If they kept that compatibilty it should still work. There are other programs available on the Net that do the same thing, but of course if they changed the way the data is accessed those won't work either.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 07:59:16 pm
content: Laptops are usually more protected (i.e. things aren't stored in a legacy location, settings are non-voltaile and there may be no easy way to wipe them) for obvious anti-theft reasons.The cause for resetting a BIOS password must be 80% due to forgetting things on a desktop, but 80% to use a stolen machine on a laptop. I have once forgotten the password on an Acer machine, the only solution was to ship it to the manufacturer with original purchase receipt to get it unlocked (I didn't bother). Same with Apple stuff and more.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 08:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: KerryW on August 06, 2016, 07:55:49 pmGiven the machine won't boot an operating system, whether it be on a hard drive or removable media, until after the BIOS password has been entered I doubt that will work.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 08:24:36 pm
content: There used to be manufacturer/master passwords, but if that is still the case today I don't know. Worth a search maybe.

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 10:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on August 06, 2016, 04:38:31 pmWait, what?Once upon a time, I bought an used Thinkpad T61. It came with a supervisor password (SVP) set up. One day I flashed a modded bios... and it wouldn't boot without the SVP.Had to do all kinds of juggling around with reading a 24RF08 (notthe BIOS chip) through the serial port on another computer in order to use some utility that would read and reprogram that EEPROM in a way that cleared the SVP.So, no, that wasn't too simple at all

author: Back2Volts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 12:46:35 am
content: I have used Thinkpads since they came out. Lots of them because of my employer. I do not know about other brands, but on the Thinkpads, there was the option to secure (we were required to) the hard drives. The pasword is actually stored in a special place in the drive. It is supported by an ATA(?) command. Long time ago, after a machine upgrade to serial drives, after moving the data, inadvertently, I was left with a parallel drive with the PW on it. I could never figure out how to unlock it. It was a 60GB unit. After a while the interest on it faded becuse of obsolescence. It is probably in a drawer somewhere.What I am trying to say id that there can be more to it that a PW in the flash.

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 01:02:30 am
content: Quote from: Back2Volts on August 07, 2016, 12:46:35 amI worked refurbishing IBM laptops.All these people who post "jumper 2 pins" "remove the battery" are all wet. 20 years ago this stuff worked, not any more.You are correct, there is a password stored on the drive. In fact there can be up to 4 passwords. When the drive powers up, you have 4 chances to enter the correct password. After that the HD powers down and you have to go through a complete power down/ power up cycle before it will accept passwords to test.There is also a password on the mother board. There was a "joe in Australia" who could zero out the password for you. You had to pull the eprom off the motherboard and send it to him. Don't know if he is still in business anymore.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 01:32:18 am
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on August 06, 2016, 05:18:36 pmI've restored a locked up Toshiba Satellite A200 bios fingerprint reader using the pad shorting process while booting IIRC.Pads are under the RAM as others have described and the process while simple requires 3 hands and the tongue held right.I've got the documentation at home I think and if you can't find mention of the process on the net PM me and I'll shoot it to you when I'm home week after next.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 08:16:18 am
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on August 06, 2016, 05:22:20 pmIf the price of a new board is 50 CAd, you've already lost your chances to make a profit on this one when you look at it for one hour.

author: Chalcogenide
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 08:33:31 am
content: I have had a strange experience with an HP netbook. I was given that thing with the request to upgrade RAM and do a clean Windows install, but they forgot to tell me the BIOS password. Long story short, if you entered the password incorrectly it provided an error code. There are websites that, given that error code, generate a "master password" that clears the user-set BIOS password. I was able to do the hardware upgrade and install Windows before the owner answered with the password.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 06:15:41 pm
content: OK, this may sound strange but bear with me.1) Put your laptop motherboard into a good quality plastic bag, throw in a few of those silica gel desiccant bags as well to make sure that it stays dry.2) Stuff the lot in a freezer overnight.3) The next morning pull the motherboard out of the freezer and let it warm up to room temperature. THIS IS IMPORTANT or you will have issues with condensation.4) Try the motherboard and see if the password is zeroed out.Why?Years ago this trick worked with the Philips coded radios that they fitted to Opel cars. If the power to the radio was lost and the owner didn't have the password then the freezer trick was used.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 06:51:53 am
content: Just a second is this still an electronics forum?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 09:24:17 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on August 06, 2016, 07:10:54 pmIt's not worked for laptops for a long time.All the way back to 486 and possibly before that.A simple I2C and SPI programmer for a PC is only a couple of TTL chips, should not be difficult to build something that can read/program them, the password is rarely encrypted by anything difficult to break.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 09:28:13 am
content: Quote from: JoeO on August 07, 2016, 01:02:30 amJoe in Australia worked out the pins on the dock connector for a lot of IBM machines and developed a programmer using a couple of TTL chips which would dump the 24RF08 chip, you sent him the image and he sent you back the password.Pretty simple to work out for yourself though with a bit of knowledge.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 09:29:47 am
content: Quote from: Chalcogenide on August 07, 2016, 08:33:31 amAnd Dell too.

author: Back2Volts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 03:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on August 08, 2016, 09:28:13 amThe drive passwords are on each drive, not on the 24RF08 chip. Each drive password can be different from the two other BIOS passwords. Pretty simple to understand that, a procedure like that may have been able to unlock the actual machine, but not get to unlock the drives. One would have to replace the drives.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 03:57:38 pm
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on August 06, 2016, 04:38:31 pmIf it doesn't even have a screen, why are you bothering to reset it? Is it some kind of test?QuoteObviously the BIOS is in the big chip, and the password is probably in the small chip.So build a simple reader for the small chip, and see what's in there:http://www.lancos.com/prog.htmlYou could also buy one of these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-SPI-Series-24-EEPROM-CH341A-BIOS-Writer-Routing-LCD-Flash-USB-Programmer/131861626827

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 04:14:26 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 07, 2016, 06:15:41 pmYears ago plenty of people tried to suggest this tricked worked, but it didn't (along with numerous other dubious methods that never worked). I used to repair head units for a living, the Philips units had either a 24C02 or a 24C16 that had to be dumped and edited, or overwritten with an image holding a known password.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 04:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: Back2Volts on August 08, 2016, 03:39:06 pmYes, they are, but I was referring to the BIOS password, not the drive security.My bad if I misread something.There are ways around those drive passwords too, some of which are easier than others and not guaranteed for all drives/security levels but I've personally unlocked two Seagates.I will admit the method I used is spine tingling and rather risky.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 05:51:38 pm
content: Assuming he have/purchase the programmer, he should have the original bios file to dump, right? (Or another identical bios to use as a "good" dump)

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 06:32:23 pm
content: Quote from: mcinque on August 08, 2016, 05:51:38 pmNo, the password is probably not in the same device as the BIOS.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2016, 07:22:42 pm
content: oh, so he should program/clear/edit the nvram/device where the pass is set?

author: knks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2016, 11:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: Back2Volts on August 07, 2016, 12:46:35 amI think you can issue ATA command to unlock the drive (without entering the password). If will erase all data first, and then unlock it.

author: pinyoro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2016, 08:28:49 pm
content: I have not looked into your motherboard model but on some newer boards the BIOS and CMOS is in the South bridge which is BGA device. In that case you may end up having to replace the BGA itself.

author: Losserty
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 09:31:40 am
content: Quote from: CJay on August 08, 2016, 09:28:13 amThe same problem I've had before, at the time, I forgot password and I was going toresetit , everything in front is going well,but when you enter the drive, you will never be able to complete the password test and receive no hints , i thought my computer was dead ,

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 10:50:41 am
content: I would assume you don't want anything off the hard-disk either?I believe if you reset the CMOS or non-volatile memory aiming to reset the password you will also reset the encryption keys for the hard-disk meaning you can access it again. I do not believe the keys can be retrieved to be backed up.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 10:55:42 am
content: Quote from: paulca on November 09, 2017, 10:50:41 amIs the password stored in the TPM?

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 11:38:55 am
content: Quote from: JoeO on August 07, 2016, 01:02:30 amhttp://www.ja.axxs.net/

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 01:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 09, 2017, 10:55:42 amI don't know. I'm assuming that, as the BIOS is password protected that the hard disk encryption may also be enabled. The BIOS password is to prevent people from getting to the decryption phase. I am also assumng if you were to reset the non-volatile storage you would lose the encryption keys for the disk as well.Remember these things are designed to keep you out of the data stored on the disk at all costs. Also note some some hard-disks have a security erase jumper. If set, in the even the disk is powered on and the correct sequence is not sent to the drive within an amount of time the disk will go into self-destruct mode and erase itself.Also note that there have been several precedent cases in the UK of people being charged and jailed for "Circumventing effective technological security mechanisms.", though I'm not sure how well this would apply in this case if there is no criminal intent.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 02:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on November 09, 2017, 11:38:55 amThat's the guy, lovely bloke.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 03:50:37 pm
content: Years ago a friend came to me with the HP laptop of one of his customers, an Algerian businessman. He had fired one employee and this one, before leaving, had set a new password on every PC in the office, including the server and this specific laptop. A local technician was able to restore all the other PC, but not this.I called HP support, who confirmed that the password was stored both in the BIOS and in the HDD, and offered to restore it for a fee,but asked for a proof-of-purchase.If I remember well, they said that they could generate a "master" password by knowing the serial number.The laptop was bought second-hand, from a guy in France who seemed vanished (maybe it was stolen?), so: no proof of purchase > no password recovery.The laptop is still sitting in my friend's office..I think that this level of security is excessive: humans make mistakes and their memory is limited, so...

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 04:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: ciccio on November 09, 2017, 03:50:37 pmDon't store anything you can't afford to lose on a user end-point.The data should be backup securely elsewhere so that it can be restored. Should a laptop be stolen is is far more important that the data does not fall into the wrong hands.

author: KuchateK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 04:35:46 pm
content: I don't have up to date knowledge, but...I think newer Toshiba laptops don't have those reset pads around RAM slots. I did it a few times on (very) old ones, usually they weren't marked and only single pad that required shorting to ground.In laptops passwords are not stored in BIOS. They use external EEPROM where they also keep information such as serial number. This way it is persistent when the BIOS is reprogrammed and they don't have to use any batteries to store settings.I had locked ThinkPad once and I found about that EEPROM hack. Some time after I did it on an HP and it also worked. The password was in the exact same location (EEPROM address) as on the ThinkPads. I hacked that laptop using nothing else than an Arduino. In the end, I was able to reprogram that EEPROM while it was soldered on the motherboard. Desoldering it was a waste of time.Look for an EEPROM chip on the motherboard. If you have one it is easy to do.