FS [UK]: Keysight 33210A Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generator - SOLD - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2020, 06:41:23 am
content: Hello,I am looking to sell my Keysight 33210A which is in used but working condition (previously repaired - please see thread herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/help-identify-ic-217384/).It is missing the rubber bumpers and the handle.I wanted to mention the unit does NOT have the ARB option (i.e. option 002) enabled.Asking price is£700£650£600£450£400£350£300£250.I prefer collection, but shipping is possible at extra cost.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2020, 06:44:06 am
content: And a few more pictures...

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 02:41:11 pm
content: Price drop

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 07:09:58 am
content: Another price drop.Am I that off the mark with the price for this?

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 07:38:15 am
content: Quote from: giosif on May 29, 2020, 07:09:58 amYes, I would say so.I've seen quite a few 33210s sold for around 300 euros on ebay in the past.Unless you really want/need to buy Agilent/Keysight branded equipment, and have "profesionnal" specification requirements, there are cheaper alternatives, especially at the 10MHz range.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 03:09:03 pm
content: Thank you for that!I'm just puzzled by the difference from the retail price (seeing it at around £1,300 online).I mean, I know that is a new device and it includes the "brand value-add", etc., but still, I wouldn't think a used one would shed £1,000...

author: George Edmonds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 03:29:34 pm
content: It is the difference between the commercial world with tax write offs and the hobby world which you are aiming atGeorge G8HIG

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 03:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: giosif on May 29, 2020, 03:09:03 pmIt varies, but the Keysight AWG offerings seem very expensive compared to competitors. Their oscilloscopes are still expensive but comparatively less so and it seems these seem to be more popular amongst hobbyists and on the used market. These oscilloscopes also have unique qualities but a single channel AWG of unremarkable bandwidth is harder to justify.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 08:13:05 pm
content: Quote from: anotherlin on May 29, 2020, 07:38:15 amAre you sure those weren't the older and lower-spec 33120A? 300 Euros would be a reasonable price for one of those

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on May 29, 2020, 08:13:05 pmI wonder the same.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:29:20 pm
content: Quote from: George Edmonds on May 29, 2020, 03:29:34 pmI understand what you are saying, but still, I would have expected more of a 50%-60% percent drop in price, not 75%.Even the venerable (but rather long in the tooth) Fluke 87V fares better when comparing retail vs used price.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:32:29 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 29, 2020, 03:38:57 pmYou are probably right. I am only a hobbyist, so I don't deal with commercial pricing of such equipment on a regular basis, even more so for Keysight gear.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 09:35:53 pm
content: Price lowered once again.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 08:38:54 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 29, 2020, 03:38:57 pmAn additional issue with this model is that there is no external reference input (it is optional) - many hobbyists I think (I've not done a survey though) have acquired some sort of GPSDO and like to have things to plug it into!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 01:29:04 pm
content: Quote from: giosif on May 29, 2020, 09:29:20 pmThe 87V is quite sought after.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 05:54:47 pm
content: On the other hand the Fluke 28II ex, which is £1,264.80 new (inc VAT on RS) sells on ebay for under £300 used because companies aren't going to risk buying a used Ex model and hobbyists only treat it as a 28II which is bulkier and perhaps less desirable than the 87V.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fluke-28-II-Ex-IP67-Intrinsically-Safe-Industrial-Multimeter/383563891002

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 07:28:33 pm
content: At the risk of continuing this off-topic tangent, I recently got a used 87V for £112, and saw one go for £102 a week or so later.If I had the cash I'd jump at that 33210, as a decent AWG is on my hit list, and it seems reasonably priced. Sadly, it's well beyond my means atm (too many other TE acquisitions still to pay for)...

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 06:06:02 pm
content: Thank you everyone for your input!Lesson learned for me that not all products depreciate in price from new to used the same way (in general terms).

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 06:08:53 pm
content: Dropping price once more.I need to stop doing this or I'll end up paying for someone to take it.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 06:40:31 pm
content: At GBP400 + shipping, folks are probably comparing it to a new Siglent 2042X.33210A 14-bit, 1-channel, 10MHz, 8kpts (!) arb memory, has a Keysight badge, which adds some value.2042X 16-bit vertical, 2-channel, 40MHz (sine, hack it for more), 8Mpts arb memory. GBP490 inc VAT delivered with warranty.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 09:04:54 pm
content: Dropping price once more.One more comment and I'm giving it for free!Only kidding.Seriously, though, this is the last price drop.After such an experience, I can relate to those users asking people to name their price for a given product being sold vs. offering a price from the start.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 11:01:04 pm
content: Quote from: giosif on May 31, 2020, 09:04:54 pmWell you could have done a few minutes research to find out what these have been selling for in similar condition, most buyers will do the same... except here they discover your price is unrealistic and then possibly never come back to check/consider it again.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2020, 11:55:18 pm
content: IMHO, the 33210A is completely overpriced. For 350€ you get- a new RIGOL DG1022Z (25MHz) instead of 10MHz with the Keysight- 2 Channels instead of one- Much more modulations, waveforms, arb, external reference and whatnot- 3 years warranty- If really short of money the DG1022Z can be hacked into a 60MHz model.Buy a Keysight just because of the label

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 01:33:39 am
content: 33210A does have one very nice feature compared to the other AWG's mentioned - the output is isolated.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 07:08:40 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on May 31, 2020, 11:55:18 pmGiven the alternatives mentioned here, I wonder how Keysight is selling these things (i.e. the 33210A)...In any case, I need to review my lowest price threshold.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 07:36:19 am
content: Quote from: TheSteve on June 01, 2020, 01:33:39 amThank you for that info!I hadn't noticed the difference on the other AWG's.In my (very limited) experience with function generators, I haven't encountered situations where output isolation was needed, but I can see that coming in handy in some scenarios.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 07:44:02 am
content: Quote from: Someone on May 31, 2020, 11:01:04 pmI thought I had done my research but, obviously, not well enough.To my defense, the listings I could find on eBay were at a similar price with mine, but I am aware eBay pricing is not necessarily indicative of market value (i.e. sellers listing items with silly price tags).What I should have done more is look for Rigol & Siglent equivalent products and compared specs and prices.

author: toastedcrumpets
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 10:55:29 pm
content: Don't feel bad about it, I think you're taking this pretty well.I find the best way to price common test equipment is to search for it on eBay, and apply a filter by "sold". You'll then see what price they really go for (rather than what somebody wants).Taking the 33210A as an example, none have sold in europe recently but one went in the US for $350 last month. The US is the land of milk and honey though when it comes to cheap second hand test equipment...

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2020, 11:56:31 pm
content: Quote from: giosif on June 01, 2020, 07:08:40 amIn fact I am *sure* they dont sell the 33210A very often. The big irons (33622A, e.g.) have some unique features like ultra low jitter,so I think they can ask a good price for it and get away. The 33210A has too many competitors for a fraction of the price, plus a lot more features.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 07:13:52 am
content: Quote from: toastedcrumpets on June 01, 2020, 10:55:29 pmThank you!I will do that with my future sales.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 07:16:20 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on June 01, 2020, 11:56:31 pmNow, with a more complete picture in my mind, I completely agree with you.Thank you for the explanation!

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 07:18:51 am
content: Another price drop.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:09:05 am
content: I think that is quite a fair price.Specialist equipment like this can take some time to sell, so be patient!

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2020, 09:38:23 pm
content: Thank you for the confirmation and for the advice!

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2020, 01:03:19 pm
content: For any prospective buyer, I've updated the initial post to mention the unit does not have the ARB option enabled (i.e. option 002).

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 04:30:22 pm
content: Another price drop...I need to make space in my home "lab" (a few multimeters also coming up for sale soon).

author: toastedcrumpets
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 05:15:50 pm
content: I am tempted! The AWG option is sorely missed though.Out of interest I grabbed a quote for the upgrades (as well as the current list price), thought I'd share

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 06:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: toastedcrumpets on June 10, 2020, 05:15:50 pm... The Keysight upgrade prices are completely ridiculous. For *any* one of them you can get a complete new function generator with a lot more features, more channels, more frequency range, more memory, ... than the original equipment.Everyday a dumb person wakes up - you only have to FIND him

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 08:18:32 pm
content: Your price is good and I am surprised that it has not sold with your latest price drop.As long as the user does not need the ARB option 002, all is good.I had called Keysight Germany and they answered:Euro 370,- plus 19% Tax = Euro 440 = 392 GBP for the ARB option upgrade!So, totally crazy, if you ask me.For older instruments like this one, they should offer such upgrades for free.https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=1486620&nid=-536902257.0.00&id=1486620

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2020, 09:04:51 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 10, 2020, 08:18:32 pmJust to get this into a perspective, they are asking 400GBP for 8K, and the default standard for a Rigol is 8M. These people are sick.

author: thals
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 09:20:48 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on June 10, 2020, 09:04:51 pmCome on guys, this is clearly a legacy instrument that Keysight kept in the lineup for commercial customers that need to replace this exact model. All major manufacturers do this, and coming from an industry branch that has to keep running equipment for many years, I really appreciate this.But I understand, for a hobbyist the priorities are different.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 11:28:14 am
content: Quote from: thals on June 11, 2020, 09:20:48 amOh, let me bump the price back up to the original £700 tag, then.Only kidding.I understand what you are saying and agree with you, although I also agree with the others that they should at least drop the price for software upgrades (i.e. the ARB option).Keysight can't really say it costs them to keep that option available in their inventory.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 12:18:08 pm
content: Quote from: giosif on June 11, 2020, 11:28:14 amAstronomic update prices are standard with Keysight. They try to recover all the money the lost on rebates they had to give when selling you the equipment.My tip: Ask youself what you might need in the next 3 years, arrange a packet price including all options necessary, and very negotiate hard on this. Forget later updates.

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 01:21:18 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on June 10, 2020, 08:18:32 pmBy the way, have you guys bought directly from Keysight? If so, what's the "process", in particular, how much rebate can you get from the list price?I'm considering buying a 53220A counterI've bought my 34465A new, from an official Keysight distributor in France, it was discounted, I don't remember exactly, must have been 10% or so.I've also been able to take a 10% rebate coupon from Farnell on a E36121A, it was one of the rare occasion that they would allow test instrument to be discounted.In both case, I didn't have to bargain.As for pricing, yes, Keysight is more expensive. In particular, for waveform generators, Siglent and Rigol now have same performance specifications for much less.Why buy Keysight then? If you had the money, would rather drive BMW, Mercedes, or Toyota, Nissan? (I drive Volvo)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 08:18:10 pm
content: Quote from: anotherlin on June 13, 2020, 01:21:18 pmYou may want to pick different brands to illustrate your point as Toyota and Nissan make objectively better cars than the "premium" brands. Statistics show Toyota and Nissan are much more reliable than the German brands. That in turn does illustrate the point people are making. Would you rather drive a basic and used 20 year old four cilinder BMW 1 series or a brand new 8 cilinder Toyota with all the bells and whistles for less money? I like good quality kit as much as the next guy but this is essentially a basic signal generator sold at a huge premium due to the badge. By omitting basic features it's not even that good a generator, regardless of any real or supposed quality difference.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 09:00:21 pm
content: Quote from: anotherlin on June 13, 2020, 01:21:18 pmI have bought many instruments from the official Keysight eBay store and have always been very happy with their service.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2020, 09:41:41 pm
content: I haven't had much luck selling things here, even at low prices. I think most of us are bargain hunters, we're looking for something cheap and many of us are experienced at finding cheap gear. Personally I like to gamble on as-is untested or known defective stuff that I can get even cheaper.The best way to find the actual value of something is to look on ebay, but make sure you look at sold items, not the ridiculous asking prices on a lot of gear that sits for months or even years without selling.Also high end gear is a lot like high end luxury cars. The people who are buying it new have deep pockets and are the sort who want new high end stuff. It depreciates rapidly though because the people who buy used cars (or high end test gear) typically have much lower budgets. Honestly you might be better off just listing it on ebay at this point, I'm not in the market for a function generator myself, I just bought a 33120a for $160 last year but after this many price drops people might just be waiting to see if it drops further.

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 11:49:56 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on June 13, 2020, 08:18:10 pmI was rather about comparing Rigol's DG2000 series vs Keysight 33500B series.The DG2000s have specifications that basically meet those of the 33500Bs, but at basically half the price.There are some details that makes 33500Bs (and 33210A) better for some use, for example at low frequency, sine wave is only 0.04% THD vs 0.075% for Rigol.For audio, the 33210A would be perfect.Comparing BMW with Toyota or even Nissan, is indeed incorrect as Toyota has a long proven history of reliability, and objectively, you can indeed consider them "better" than other "premium" brands.In particular, total cost of ownership is no match: cheap at buying, cheap at maintenance (parts easy to find, no loss of resale value by not going to manufacturer's licensed garage, no need for "premium" gas), proven reliability, etc.However buying cars, is not something so "rational" for some people, hence Mercedes, BMW can prosper.For engineering, even if Keysight is more expensive, for "professional" use, there are still a few reason to pay the extra price.In particular, this is a "proven" company, it has a network of distributors.

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 05:06:25 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 13, 2020, 09:41:41 pmI hear you (this is the reason I only look for broken stuff when searching on eBay; most of the times anyway).Yes, eBay is probably going to yield a better price, but then you also have to pay eBay and PayPal fees, plus there's also the risk of buyer asking for a return/refund (if for justified reasons, then I would have no issues; but I've had an experience in the past where they complained about something I did not find reasonable, yet had to cut my losses and accept the return).I have more confidence and trust in people here (except for very new users with only a handful of posts).

author: giosif
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2020, 05:10:56 pm
content: Just to mention this is now sold.Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!I didn't expect it to grow this long, but it certainly gave me a few things to think about.If you feel so inclined, you are more than welcome to continue the conversation.Thank you again!