Siglent SDS1102X or X-S - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 10:52:23 pm
content: Hello people,Was wondering if anyone has had the chance to use one of the new SDS1102X or SDS1102X-S scopes?The X-S has a 25 MHz waveform gen built in, also trying to find out if it is a hardware difference or just a software upgrade option to unlock the X version?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 04:51:41 am
content: We should know lots more for sure in a week or so Scott.Some small study:From the User manual.http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X_UserManual_UM0101X-E01A.pdfP12, only the SDS1102X and SDS1202X models appear to be offered with AWG. (S)This might indicate it is only a factory installed option.Further to this on P152, Fig 87 in Option management, only Decode would seem to be offered as an option at this stage.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 04:55:08 am
content: Thanks for the manual link Rob, I will download it and have a good read.I will have a look around later tonight to see if there are any reviews online yet.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 05:02:28 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on September 07, 2015, 10:52:23 pmAfaik, only -S have built in 1 channel function generator hardware.This is only listed option what can activate using software lisence key.SDS-1000X-DC (Decode I2C,SPI,UART/RS232)1000X 1000X-S data sheet pdf.User Manual 1000XEdit: oh.. @tautech was fast

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 05:05:05 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on September 08, 2015, 04:55:08 amCan not be. Because we (or least I) do not have yet even sellers demo units. Just waiting.(personally I do not understand how some sellers can sell these in they web shops without note that they do not have these. Is it so that customer send money and after then they tell that sorry you need wait until we know what time we can get these. )

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 06:34:06 am
content: @rf-loopHaven't ordered one yet, only the SDS1202X is available at the special dealer price.I was hoping to get the only the 100 MHz version but no special price for that model.(confirmed today)Guess I'd better get my A into G and get one on the way.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 06:53:42 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 08, 2015, 06:34:06 amSame here. I'm waiting Siglent information about availability for order.One interesting question is how good its front (analog front end + ADC) is for 500uV/div sensitivity (and not factory forced BW rejection).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 07:22:33 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on September 08, 2015, 06:53:42 amI'm looking forward to your in depth analysis.

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 09:28:47 am
content: It is interesting that the non S version is shown with a front panel button for the "wave gen" in the manual... so maybe it is an upgrade.. Or just a mistake in the manual lol

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 09:51:04 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on September 08, 2015, 09:28:47 amAfaik there is not separate manuals for -X and -X-S.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 09:51:47 am
content: Quote from: TheDefpom on September 08, 2015, 09:28:47 amNo it's not a mistake Scott.P12Content Conventions in this Manual: This manual takesSDS1202X-Sfor example and the descriptions here have contained all the functions and performances of other models. SDS1000X series includes the following models:.......As yet we do not know if the GUI will inform the user in a non S version that the Wave Gen function is not available (very likely IMO), OR if the only way to tell the 2 versions apart is the presence or not of the AWG BNC output at the rear.I've already gone through this thought process and will be ordering the SDS1202X (non AWG (S)).It'll be ~2 weeks till I have it.

author: willd1971
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 09:52:32 pm
content: This arrived at Labtronix today:First impressions are this is a much bigger box than the mainstream SDS1000CML comes in. It's 46 x 29 x 27cm and weighs in at 4.63kgJust having a quick look, the screen is enormous, the feel is very solid, and reassuringly heavy. There is a 'universal knob'and all the knobs appear to have a push function too.Round the back there is a slightly recessed mains entry, you would need a right angle power lead to lie this unit on its back. Also note that there's no rubber bumpers for lying it on its back. But there are nice rubber feet for normal upright and angled seating. There's also connectors for USB device, LAN, Pass-Fail/Trigger Out, and AWG Output BNCs. These are well recessed for protection.Here's a grainy picture (sorry for the naff quality)The soft touch power button pulsates at you once mains power is connected - this might be irritating when you're not using the oscilloscope but I didn't find it too bright and could probably live with it.The SDS1000CML screen is a luxurious improvement over the old 320 x 240 Unitrend oscilloscopes I used to sell, the SDS1000X screen is another leap forward in display quality - just because you can fit so much on there and still see everything you want to.My experience of the SDS1000CML goes back about 18 months and what I really like is the honest 2 mega points you can capture and explore and this is not particularly dependent on timebase settings, if you are on a fast timebase which could only show a portion of the full 2mpts you could stop capturing and then scroll beyond the left and right hand edge of the screen to see the rest of the data. First impressions of the SDS1202X are that it doesn't do this, the way I visualise what's happening is that it trims all data to the left and to the right of the visible capture - so if you scroll either left or right the screen is empty. Really frustrating since there's a potential 14mpts in this souped-up device - example, I set the timebase to 2ns/div (the fastest) it shows a waveform constructed of 28 sample points because there's 14 horizontal divisions and 2 samples per division - you can even change display type from vector to dot and see each discrete sample. But 28 points is all that's been offered to me to analyse. Sorry this paragraph is getting a bit long. I tinkered a bit and found that pressing the timebase scale knob produced a split screen like this:By squashing everything vertically 2 representations of the waveform are shown. The upper illustration is the complete waveform capture, the lower is a 'zoom' in on the upper illustration allowing you to see more detail. This kind of feature has been around in DSOs for years, and was always a bit gimmicky in low end models like UTD2000 series, but the higher screen resolution of the SDS1000X series makes this feature very usable. I was able to capture up to 14ms waveform at 1gsps then zoom in and pan around as I saw fit. This worked ok and I could get used to it but I would like to be able to squash the upper illustration because it is just a visual reference, then unsquash the lower illustration which is the visual information I reall want to concentrate on. IMO the SDS1000CML does this much better at the moment (I would love to have the error of my ways pointed out here and to be shown that a simple button press will make the SDS1000X perform like the SDS1000CML here!). Perhaps a firmware upgrade could attend to this - I will speak to my Siglent contacts.On the other hand another longtime gimmick on low end DSOs is FFT - If you want a spectrum analyzer buy a spectrum analyzer! But I was quite pleased with the SDS1202X in this respect, with a bit of fiddling I was able to setup the frequency resolution to show the fundamental and harmonics of the test square wave and to use cursors to measure frequency peaks (manually aligned) and amplitudes. This is actually quite useful for audio frequencies if you have a steady signal like constant DTMF tones or something. Here's a quick peak:Another observation, this oscilloscope is labelled CAT 1 which means it is not designed or certified for probing mains power, it is only suitable for probing circuits which have no direct connection to mains power. IMO this is not the sort of oscilloscope you would want to carry round industrial environments anyway - it's too precious!I reckon the AWG and serial decode are probably software options, this model also appears to have a limited number of trials built in but I haven't looked in detail yet - personally I don't think the AWG upgrade is worth the money you're better buying a dedicated model for similar money like something from the SDG1000 range, or perhaps the SDG2000X (which is also sitting unopened at Labtronix waiting for a once over).Like for like the X series oscilloscopes are getting on for twice the price of the SDS1000CML series and the maximum sample rate is the same... so is it worth it? Is it too much for the hobbyist and not serious enough for the professional? Not sure yet but you can be certain it's a solid piece of kit with a wonderfully useful display.That's all I had time for tonight - I might have a bit of time to post a bit more if you want specific answers try me!In the UK Labtronix stock a range of Siglent oscilloscopes including SDS1000CML and with quick access to SDS1000X. You can find out more here:https://labtronix.co.uk/drupal/shop/oscilloscope.htm

author: TheDefpom
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2015, 01:46:11 am
content: Thanks for the detailed coverage of your findings. I'm sure this will be a popular thread once people start looking for these units.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2015, 06:16:51 am
content: Quote from: willd1971 on September 15, 2015, 09:52:32 pmIt is same as its big brother SDS2000 series.Using this kind of scope need learn new approach how to use scope IF need long capture. In real life I can ask in what situation?First time I hit this also I have been short time "surprised".There is lot of tools what can use and what SDS1000(CML) do not have at all.Where (for what) user really need that t/div setting is example 5ns/div and then scope display example 18div on the TFT and user still need that there is lot (hundreds thousends div's) of signal outside display?If I remember right CML have max 500MSa/s using long memory(1000X 1Gsa/s)500MSa/s is 2ns sample period. With 5ns/div setting 2.5 sample points per division. So, visible on the CML screen is perhaps 45 points. If you turn it to 2.5ns/div you have 22 sample points visible over screen (18div in CML) Look point where memory is 2M and slowest horizontal speed have still 500MSa/s. (it is 50ns/div with long memory)After then all what happend when you turn to more fast time/div is that internally oscilloscope ONLY do dipslay zoom and nothing else. This is good to realize. Also more, look what is 1000X samplerate when you turn 14M and 1ms/div. (Let me quess it is 1GSa/s) Then look what is CML samplerate with 2M memory and 1ms/div. (it is 25Msa/s). With CML for max samplerate you need use 50ns/div or faster with.With 2Mpoints there is 4000000 ns time in the memory. If time setting is 2.5ns/div there is 1600000 div and on the display you see 18 of these. For what you need these all 1599982 unvisible divs in run time.In run time it is very rare you need data what is out from diplay what you are watching. If you need capture long data and watch it scope stopped, why just not use max memory and max samplerate and stop and pan/zoom. Just as can do with CML but with better resolution due to double sample rate.If scope use 14Mpoints memory example with 5ns/div setting and it have 1GSa/s sampling speed.There is 1ns sample period. It is 14000000ns and it is 14ms. If one waveform capture take 14ms... well, there is just loosed idea about DPO. We need fast wfm/s update rate. If dead time is zero (impossible) with 14ms we can get max 71 waveform/s update rate. In practice less.If you want run time look what are thyere 1ms after trigger point, just turn horizontal shift to 1ms delay and look.. (with 1000X) When you are there in 1ms after trigger point your "window" is now there. For what you need acquired data between trigger point and this your "window" in run time. For what?If you want 14M data just turn scope to lowest speed where it still have 1GSa/s and capture.If want real time look, use low horizontal main time base and go to zoomed window.There is also tools for get more. As you may find there is always available history.After yoy find this 1000X features and learn new way to use scope and learned also new tools what are not at all in CML you do nnot want touch CML anymore, exept if have low budget and if CML is enough for needs. For many kind uses SDS1000CML is still good scope with some nice advantages as example full dual independent time bases for ALT trig mode with full separate triggers for both channels, nearly as real true dual beam scope what are really rare)For some very rare needs (or least make users happy with nothing) it is possible to do LOW speed acquisition mode where scope can acquire to full memory even with fastest timebases and without display intensity grading. Just if they want, they can do it. It is hard to imagine who need this and for what - just for nothing? Just only for that it is there? Other solution is that it may also try to learn a little bit more professional oscilloscope uses. I believe it can very soon forget to miss CML long traces outside displayed area after learn new practice.Perhaps Siglent take this and in some free time some programmer add this to FW and make menu button where people can switch between Normal and Antique mode.