Hookup wire - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 08:37:05 pm
content: Is 26 gauge hookup wire ok for my circuit board ?I am using PCB boards. I think the holes are the standard width apart.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 08:41:37 pm
content: Sure.I even use down to 30AWG solid wire-wrapping wire for low current signal connections.For example:https://www.amazon.com/YXQ-Breadboard-B-30-1000-Plated-Wrapping/dp/B015L1HVQS/ref=sr_1_17?crid=RV599SW72NHD&keywords=30+awg+wire+wrap&qid=1559853742&s=gateway&sprefix=30+awf+wire%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-17

author: DDunfield
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:05:27 pm
content: Depends on what your circuit board is doing...If it's jellybean low level signalling etc., it's probably more than enough.If it's driving the primary side of a high power inverter ... probably not so much.Wire size suitability depends on the current being carried.Dave

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:32:59 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on June 06, 2019, 08:41:37 pmI read where wire wrapping has some advantages over solder. Though corrosion and dirt could be introduced.Does it work in IC chips too?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: fixit7 on June 06, 2019, 09:32:59 pmYou mean actual wire-wrapping or just using the wire as hookup wire to solder?I use it for both. Just because I have the wire. The WW sockets themselves are getting hard to find and expensive.Wire-wrapping use to be used all the time before PCB were available.The company I worked for at the time wire-wrapped almost everything. Large racks (2x3 ft panels with six in a rack).Edit-I believe you had to have between 4 to 6 turns per post for a reliable connection. At least that's what I aim for.It's been years since I've seen it used commercially. It was just as secure as soldering.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:59:10 pm
content: I misunderstand.The tool isn't that expensive but the powered ones are.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 10:24:34 pm
content: I just use the basic hand tool:https://www.amazon.com/Strip-Unwrap-Cable-Prototyping-Wrapping/dp/B07L6GDXF1/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=wire+wrap+tool+power&qid=1559859258&s=industrial&sr=1-3Even the mechanical ones are expensive and you still need to buy the bit. I have one of these and don't use it.https://www.specialized.net/tools/wire-wrap-tools/wire-wrap-guns/jonard-ok-industries-g100-r3278ins-manual-wire-wrap-tool-ins.htmlAnd the power ones:https://www.specialized.net/tools/wire-wrap-tools/wire-wrap-guns/jdv-standard-pneumatic-sp-6021-electric-wire-wrap-gun-tool.htmlJust the first ones to show up on Google.I was just talking about the wire-wrap IC sockets. I want to say they are around $5.00 each.I would just use the wire with the cheap proto-boards and solder it. Wire-wrapping is too expensive any more. Especially, when you can get PCB made for $2.00 at JCLPCB.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 11:44:33 pm
content: I already bought some of these.After I use them up I will use the cheaper ones.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 11:59:33 pm
content: I've been using the green ones like you shown with no bus bars.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 03:21:49 am
content: 24 AWG is usually the smallest I use for mechanical reasons but 26 AWG can work fine also. Get a good set of wire strippers.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 04:15:51 am
content: I also use 30AWG single/solid conductor "wrapping wire" more than just about anything else for circuit board-level work, whether pcb rework or for use with protoboards. It looks "wrong" because the holes in the protoboard are so large. But as long as the wires are kept short, they can pass a lot of current with minimal voltage drop and heat.There are multiple reasons to use wire this thin besides cost. It is very easy to strip. The small cross section means that the insulation doesn't have time to melt while soldering the connection. And the very thin insulation and conductor make for high density connections without building a mess, and small enough to fit to the pins of almost any IC.You would think it is too thin to be reliable, mechanically, but IME it works great once you get the hang of getting the wires the right length and placement. Getting the jumpers where they won't be disturbed works a lot better than trying to use wire so thick that it can handle abuse.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 06:04:04 am
content: If you really want to get scientific, use a wire size such that the current density in the wire is low. A rule of thumb might be 400 circular mils per ampere. Look in a wire chart for the circular mils of the wire size you want to use and divide by the current you expect. If the result is above 400 you are safe. (the value 400 is arbitrary based on experience)Of course there is more to it than that. Wire has resistance and inductance, so it's possible those parameters will be limiting the suitability of a given wire size. Plus, thin wire is fragile.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 05:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 07, 2019, 06:04:04 amI think I will try 22 gauge. Like you said, thinner wire is fragile.So far, my projects have been low power.I will use P = E squared when I get to the point of more complex circuits.-----------------RFuture projects will be to use AC current for transformers to step down current.I salvaged a lot of parts from a laser printer.I think the bulb for the drum is what draws the most current. The input has a 15 amp fuse.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 06:01:29 pm
content: You may learn, as I have, that salvaging parts from old discarded gear can be very useful. I have a house full of components of many types, including diodes, transistors, ICs, motors, fans, transformers, capacitors, fuses, on and on. I file them so that if I need something I can usually find it.This has paid off for me over and over. Not only in saving money by already having what I need, but also saving time in searching for sources as well as being able to get on with the current project.Of course, as in my case, one can carry it too far. One needs to realize that most people would think it's foolish but I don't much care what people think.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 07:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 07, 2019, 06:01:29 pmIt is definitely not foolish.You are recycling what would end up in a landfill. That's commendable.Just a few things I have found in dumpsters or had been put out for trash in the last 6 months.Hard drives from a DVREnough wood to fill a small closetIroning board that had a broken weldTake care,Andy

author: DBecker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 08:37:25 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on June 07, 2019, 06:04:04 amAmpacity is primarily based on heat dissipation, not current density. You have to get to nm scale before current density and electromigration becomes an issue.Circuit boards can support high current density compared to round wires because of the large surface area. Small wires are similar -- there is still lots of surface area to shed the heat.I wonder how much wire wrapping is still done today. 30+ years ago I wire-wrapped my own prototype boards. The large ones had thousands of connections. The only way to do those with reliability and few enough errors was to use an X-Y position machine and a wire-wrap gun. It's easy to forget how literally painful and tedious that was, for only mediocre (10-50MHz) performance. The only benefit was how easily fixes and enhancements were made.I'm pretty sure that 99% of "wire wrap" wire used now is soldered board patches.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 09:36:04 pm
content: I have done my own informal tests on 30AWG kynar wire. With a 1 foot section, touching nothing but room temp air, the wire overheats enough to melt insulation at something around 6A. The copper starts to glow somewhere between 6-10A. Obviously, if ambient temp is higher (crammed in a box of electronics) these figures would be lower. And if bundled in a cable with other high current wires, etc.But if you are doing only very short jumpers to a circuit board, the circuit board will sink heat, too.The current you can pass depends on the situation. I don't even blink using 30AWG for up to 3A on things for my own use, where airflow/temp isn't an issue, even though the charts I've seen suggest the max is closer to half an A. Obviously, you have to consider all factors when doing this, including voltage drop due to the resistance of the wire (which increases a bit with temp).

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 04:40:02 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 07, 2019, 04:15:51 amI also use 30 gauge silver plated Kynar insulated wire wrap wire for point to point work but solid wire like this is not suitable for high vibration environments unless secured. With the Kynar insulation, it is available in all of the standard colors.But 30 gauge magnet wire with the insulation which burns off at soldering iron temperatures is even better if you do not require color coding and even this is available in a few different colors and it is less expensive. Since no wire strippers are needed, there is no issue with nicking the wire and it is faster to use.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 04:45:20 am
content: When you are looking for reliability you can always "glue" it down with some solder-able conformal coat removes issues with vibration.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 04:58:22 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 08, 2019, 04:45:20 amSuper glue works well for this.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 10:53:39 am
content: Quote from: fixit7 on June 07, 2019, 07:18:25 pmI tried using that argument with my wife and she says converting the house into a landfill is not commendable.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 05:06:42 pm
content: It can go too far. My dad grew up in the depression and often went hungry.I doHe kept screws, bolts, etc in glass peanut butter jars.I do the same thing except in small quantities.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 07:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 08, 2019, 10:53:39 amhmm, what's about all those women? they seem to just not understand, that men evolutionary stayed what they always have been: hunter-gatherersit's a pain; maybe the best solution is to keep wives out of the lab and adjacent areas

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 11:46:28 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 08, 2019, 10:53:39 amI have the same problem, except it’s an inner dialog... part of my brain wants to live fairly minimalist, the other part hates throwing away “useful” stuff...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 11:51:05 am
content: Quote from: fixit7 on June 08, 2019, 05:06:42 pmLike this guy?And the follow up:

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 08:41:54 pm
content: ^No Marge. I told you, I have spare couch feet here, somewhere. You didn't have to buy them. Ahh, fine. Well, give me those leftover couch feet and I'll start a new coffee can.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 10:28:47 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on June 08, 2019, 04:58:22 amEven better in my experience is the cyanoacrylate (super glue) that is UV cured. I find regular superglue that isn't squished between two objects takes a long time to cure. But for applications like this those little UV pens are amazing. Can be purchased locally for several dollars each, or eBay for a buck or two if you're willing to wait for Chinese shipping. You can put a "drop" in a certain place, run the wire through it, illuminate it for 4-5 seconds, and it will cure in that same shape while holding the (now) embedded wire in place. We keep a bunch of these around for all sorts of purposes. Extremely useful.Nothing special about this one, just the first that came up on eBay. Home Depot and other hardware stores stock them too.https://www.ebay.com/itm/Quick-5-Second-Fix-UV-Light-Repair-Tool-Glue-Refill-Liquid-DIY-TOOL-Welding-Kit/163048072567?hash=item25f66c2577:m:m47NcPPjPE4LQV0kgyXLmPg

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 10:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on June 10, 2019, 10:28:47 pmYou are handy as a pocket.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 11:22:22 pm
content: QuoteYou don't need special glue. All you have to do is sprinkle some baking soda onto the glue.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 11:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on June 10, 2019, 11:22:22 pmInteresting! But UV light cleans up way easier than baking soda when I'm done.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 12:40:38 am
content: Are we really talking about how to make a protoboard a permanent fixture?The key word here: "prototype"Is this thing going into space? Get a PCB made and put it into an enclosure!Or just put some feet on the board.Unless you are a bull in a china store, a little attention in handling the board should last some time.

author: fixit7
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 03:08:33 am
content: Curious as to why there are 2 resistors on this side?Is there a pic of the other side?Does this show wire wrapping?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2019, 05:47:12 am
content: Quote from: fixit7 on June 11, 2019, 03:08:33 amThe resistors are a modification to the filters for the encoder pins. To reduce noise and contact bounce.Yes. This is a very small example of wire-wrapping. Except for the discrete components.Notice for stain relief, I ran the wire down from the top in the same hole as the component pin, soldered and then ran the wire to the bottom side through the hole next to it. Essentially, creating a "J" hook.This is a 1Hz to 10MHz function generator based on an AD9834 DDS and a PIC18F2550 MCU.Edit-More detail here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/diy-function-generator/msg1115550/#msg1115550

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 10:07:47 am
content: Here is a restoration of a DEC PDP-8 computer.All the backplanes are wire wrapped. It can be a real rat's nest.https://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/UI-8/log2013.shtmlAnd here is a closeup example I found online. Modified wrap.F.Y.I.There are two different wire wrap tools.The "Standard" wrap just wraps the bare wire around the post.The "Modified" wrap wraps one loop of the insulation around the post.Wrapping the insulation around the post helps prevent shorts to an adjacent post or wire.There are also different length posts. Typically, 2 and 3 layer posts.The number of layers being the number of wires you can put on one post.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 07:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on June 12, 2019, 10:07:47 amAlso note that wire wrap posts are square and not round. The corners of the square posts bite into the wire and form a gas tight seal. When you unwrap a wire, you can feel where the metal post and wire melded together at the sharp corners.If a round post was used, tarnish between the wire and post can eventually make for an unreliable connections. If you must wirewrap a round post like a component lead, it should be lightly soldered as well.