system76' laptops? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 01:48:03 pm
content: So, I am looking for a friendly Linux-laptop and foundsystem76's modelsOryx ProGazelleThey cost a little for customs duties: has anyone tried them yet?Thanks

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 08:22:37 pm
content: I had a eye on them, and they look pretty good. Don't own one. Had good feedback, but limited to one user... so...But TBH, I was seriously considering buying one as my next laptop.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2021, 09:44:18 pm
content: Why you see them as especially "Linux Friendly" escapes me. Your link talks about "Open Source Firmware", which has nothing to do with Linux. On top of that, it's NVidia graphics, which is totally proprietary and closed-source and gives endless problem for Linux users.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 12:51:21 am
content: Any laptop that does not come with pre-installed windoze (or the fruit brand os) is a plus in my book.But they are hard to find.Some of them have advertisements onhttps://distrowatch.com/Recently I accidentally bumped into:https://www.skikk.eu/laptopsThey also have an option to buy a laptop without an OS, or with Linux installed.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 07:35:18 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on November 07, 2021, 09:44:18 pmMaybe just because the only system they'll preinstall for you is a Linux distribution they have thoroughly tested and tailored for their laptops?As to NVidia, unless you're a zealous open-source activist, that's often a minor concern here. I have absolutely never had any issue with NVidia drivers on Linux. And possibly the choice they made here is that while NVidia cards give good performance, they also allow an hybrid setup (NVidia + integrated Intel), which is handy on laptops. When you don't need high-performance graphics, you can just work with the Intel graphics which is a lot less power-hungry. The system can automatically switch between the two. I don't know if a similar setup can easily be done with Radeon cards, for instance. I've never seen it, but if it's possible and well supported on Linux, then OK...

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 08:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 08, 2021, 07:35:18 pmCould be, I didn't go that deeply into their website, which is extremely marketing heavy.Personally, I've never had any problems 'dozing M$ on any machine and installing Linux over it.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 11:02:25 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on November 07, 2021, 09:44:18 pmI think this is related to choice of hardware that offers the most reliable diver support in the kernel. Likewise, the firmware itself is properly documented and has good interop with the kernel. Some of proprietary firmware has been known to have buggy ACPI issues, and UEFI boot issues (particularly secure boot) with the Linux environment.

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2021, 11:18:31 pm
content: As you're in the uk, check out pcspecialist. Both pcspecialist and system76 are based on up stream clevo technology.I have three laptops from them and run linux on two of them (mint/cinnamon) without any issues. I'm typing this on one of them.Unlike system76, pcspecialist don't support linux, they try to drive you to MS, but you can buy without the OS and install linux yourself.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 03:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on November 07, 2021, 09:44:18 pmSo they were somehow described on Youtube talking about their "Pop OS".

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 03:31:16 pm
content: QuoteYup, precisely

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 03:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 07, 2021, 08:22:37 pmWhich one? { Oryx Pro, Gazelle }

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 05:17:09 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 09, 2021, 03:33:46 pmOh, didn't get that far yet. Probably the cheaper option which seems to be the Gazelle, as I mainly use laptops while on the go or in lab but not as my main workstations for "heavy" work.The company seems to be a bunch of great guys knowing what they're doing. The only two things that seem slightly annoying to me at this point:- The keyboards. I definitely don't like those flat keyboards... but I know that's pretty much all we can find on laptops these days...- They come preinstalled with a Linux distro, and apparently there's no option to get them without anything preinstalled. Since none of the distros they offer are the ones I use... I suppose formatting the whole thing and installing something from scratch is possible though.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 07:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 09, 2021, 05:17:09 pmIt seems the keyboard on System76' laptops is not in the Pros-list.A reviewhere, it doesn't brilliant but rather "decent"

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2021, 10:46:32 pm
content: If you have any interest in machine learning, NVIDIA cards are the way to go. You could seriously need the GPUs for speedup.Not a maximum configuration for a laptop but this Dell uses the NVIDIA RTX 3080 which has 8704 CUDA cores. That's a lot of parallel computing!https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-m15-r4-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m15-r4-laptop/wnm15r409sDell has a PC with the RTX3090 with 10,496 CUDA cores.Many years back, I was running Redhat Enterprise Linux on a Dell Precision Workstation and every time Linux had an upgrade, I would have to rebuild the NVIDIA drivers. It was a HUGE PITA. I don't recall having that problem in the recent past. I eventually just gave up on doing upgrades!Given that Linux represents about 2% of desktops, you can see why manufacturers don't want to get into the market. Just 2% after 30 years!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 06:31:09 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on November 10, 2021, 03:24:19 amEven worse beyond thermal/power/current throttling, clock speed differences, or memory clock/width (all of which usually favour the desktop versions)The 3080 example use a completely different die with a different count of cores/compute units!mobile 3080 = a hobbled/underclocked desktop 3070 Tiits almost getting to be as bad as desktop processor model numbers

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 08:06:23 am
content: If it were an ARM or MIPS laptop I would buy it right away.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 08:30:26 am
content: I looked at them but instead settled for a Lenovo ThinkPad. Extremely Linux friendly, better support and they are a well established brand with a good reputation.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 10:35:02 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 10, 2021, 08:30:26 amPrices are somehow equal to Lenovo. This because System76 is located in Canada and you have to consider importing fees and related duties.That's a shame, but that's it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 05:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: evb149 on November 10, 2021, 03:24:19 amI was more concerned with battery life on the laptop. My need for a ML machine is limited but my grandson may need something for grad school. It depends on his actual major - yet to be determined, I think.Then the issue is portability, is it necessary for ML? It seems as though he will be using distance learning so perhaps not. For my uses, I would just build up a desktop. A few grand will build up a pretty decent machine - or a room heater.All to be determined in the next month or so.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 06:12:26 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on November 10, 2021, 05:48:59 pmThe battery in my second-hand ThinkPad Carbon X1/2017 allows me to run for up to 6 hours. Despite having an itnel i7 CPU, I don't use the laptop for heavy FEM calculations, but rather to write and debug code intensively, as well as Firefox to search for stuff and lots of open PDFs.With Premiere I only have 4 hours, but keep in mind that the battery has definitely aged.The best thing ever seen on the battery is the new Apple M1 laptop: a colleague loaned me a month ago and I had up to 11 hours of use on average!No Premiere there, only Finalcut.Quote from: rstofer on November 10, 2021, 05:48:59 pmML is something you should better run in a cluster. Say J-cluster, of which, the laptop should only be a terminal

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 07:24:01 pm
content: I don't think any of my laptops have exceptional battery life. I suspect using the CUDA units in the graphics adapter won't improve on that. Maybe I should look around for benchmarks specific to ML.It's not clear to me how a cluster of relatively small PCs improves on the concept of tightly coupled CUDA units with shared system memory. I looked briefly at AWS but that's a little out of my league. If I were doing this stuff for a living, it might be affordable.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 07:30:16 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on November 10, 2021, 07:24:01 pmJ-cluster = some NVIDIA Jetson boards (4?) + Carrier Board

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2021, 11:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 10, 2021, 07:30:16 pmI have the Jetson Nano and it's pretty clever. It only has 128 CUDA cores but, still, it's a start.Maybe something like this:https://www.seeedstudio.com/Jetson-Mate-Cluster-Standard-with-1-Jetson-Nano-and-3-Xavier-NX-p-4935.htmlEven then, it would only have 1664 CUDA cores, nowhere close to one of the high end graphic cards with 10,000+ cores.I have a lot more reading to do! I know exactly diddly about ML and even less about NVIDIA's offerings.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 01:10:07 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on November 10, 2021, 10:35:02 amIf by "Canada" you mean Denver Colorado then, yeah.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 10:57:23 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on November 11, 2021, 01:10:07 amd'oh,that's what reported in the wikiQuoteI didn't check it, and got confused due to a promotional link, probably from one of their supporter.Anyway, it doesn't change the problem: USA or Canada, you always need to *import* things

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2021, 06:45:37 pm
content: Yeah, getting those in Europe will incur significant extra cost, making them relatively unattractive price-wise.Take the average $2000 price point (depending on config it could be up to $3000), add VAT + custom fees, and start bawling your eyes out!

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 09:16:34 am
content: Probably not relevant but if you like KDE, I've really been enjoying my Kubuntu Focus laptop for work. Clevo makes the hardware, and speaking as a touch-typist, the keyboard is pretty good and includes a numerical pad.I wasn't cost-sensitive, but they finally figured out how to ship it to me without giving UPS ground a stupid amount of money. Admittedly it was by giving UPS air a stupid amount of money...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2021, 06:12:19 pm
content: I didn't know Clevo, but it's in Europe, so that should make things easier for us europeans too, and they seem to have more options than System76. I'll have a look! Thanks!