Thermal Master "P2" testing by Fraser with plenty of images to view - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:09:52 pm
content: The Thermal Master "P2"I was asked by Thermal Master if I would be willing to take a look at the Thermal Master P2 camera that they have recently released to market. I am always willing to test and review a new thermal imaging camera or system provided I can speak freely of my findings. I accepted the offer of a sample unit on those terms and have no allegiance or bias towards Thermal Master or its employees. I was not paid for this testing and review.At this point I think we should discuss the current mobile phone thermal imaging market. This market is dominated by the Chinese manufacturers who are using imaging cores supplied by Infiray, Guide Sensmart and Hikvision. The performance of mobile phone dongle cameras that use the same imaging core is often dictated by the quality of the software APP and processing power of the host mobile phone. For the best user experience and frame rate you need a mobile phone with reasonable processing power. I am using the Motorola G62 in the testing of the "P2". It would be fair to say that the Infiray Tiny1-C thermal imaging core is dominant in the mobile phone thermal imaging dongle marketplace and it has been proven to offer excellent imaging at an affordable price. That said, the 3rd party manufacturers have to provide decent software APPs to process the data coming from the Tiny1-C imaging core. Such is where some manufacturers fail to deliver so buyers are advised to investigate reviews of the APP and its performance as well as that of the camera hardware. There is no guarantee that two different camera dongles using the same thermal imaging core means that one manufacturers APP will work with another's hardware.The Thermal Master "P2" name caused me some confusion at first as the market already has the Infiray "P2" and "P2 Pro". Thermal Master have created a New "P2" whilst still offering a Thermal Master "P2 Pro". That P2 Pro looks an awful lot like the Infiray P2 Pro. The fact that Infiray and Thermal Master use the same software APP makes the connection between the two companies obvious but I see no reason to comment further on this here. I asked Thermal Master whether their "P2" contained the Tiny1-C imaging core and they seemed somewhat bemused as to what difference the identity of the core makes as performance is all that matters. Whilst they have a point, the identity of the imaging core gives us a baseline against which to test the camera and it is useful information for those wishing to create 3rd party applications. Thermal Master confirmed that their "P2" DOES NOT contain a Tiny1 series imaging core. That leads me to believe that it contains the recently released Infiray Tiny2 series imaging core that is not yet fully understood in terms of its differences to, or advantages over, the Tiny1 series cores. That said, I believe that Infiray present the Tiny2 core series as a cost reduced product that uses a new version of their ASIC that previously lowered cost and simplified their core design. As we are now dealing with a new imaging core, we are on a voyage of discovery where its performance is concerned.I was going to produce an in depth review of the Thermal Master "P2" but after reading an excellent review of it I see no good reason to repeat the process. Please read this review to see how the new Thermal Master "P2" performs......https://goughlui.com/2024/10/15/review-thermalmaster-p2-usb-c-thermal-camera-256x192-25hz-40mk/First ImpressionsMy first impressions of the package that arrived for testing were very good. The Thermal Master P2 is packaged in a very professional looking box and it includes an excellent hard case to protect the dongle camera when not in use. This was sadly absent from the original P2 and P2 Pro camera sets so we had to make our own.The actual camera dongle is impressively compact and light weight, just as I found with the Infiray P2 Pro. This is possible because these modern dongle cameras contain the microbolometer package, micro lens and a processor to read the data coming from the imaging core and package it up for passing over USB to a host. There is no need of great processing power, complex power supplies or human interfaces. They are basically the thermal imaging equivalent of Software Designed Receivers (SDRs) that revolutionised the radio world. This dongle camera takes its power from the host via USB so there are no batteries inside the casing. This removes the issues of bulky cells and of battery failure rendering the dongle useless, as is the case with the FLIR One G2/G3 series of dongles. In terms of the Thermal Master P2 camera design, there is nothing to dislike as there is not a lot to it. It sturdy metal cased design is simple and functional, as it should be. I do note that the lens protection window found on the original "P2" and "P2 Pro" is not present on the Thermal Master "P2". This may have been part of a cost reduction process, but the miniature lens is well recessed and not really that vulnerable to damage or dirt unless a user is really careless with it. Whilst talking about the lens, we should address the matter of a close-up focus lens. Most dongle type thermal cameras do not have the option of an OEM provided close-up lens for PCB and electronics work. Infiray broke this trend when they offered the bespoke OEM close-up lens that attached to the front of their P2 Pro dongle camera using magnets. It was a clever and very useful accessory for those of us working on electronics. Thermal Master do not provide an OEM close-up lens for the new "P2" model and the older Infiray P2 Pro Close-up lens would require some modification to fit the larger Thermal Master "P2". Is this an issue though ? In my opinion, no, as a custom close-up lens for the Thermal Master "P2" may be easily fabricated, as has been done for many other thermal imaging dongles. From talking to Thermal Master, it is clear that their "P2" is intended to meet the needs of the "General user" market and offer excellent value for money. It is not intended to directly compete with the Infiray "P2 Pro" model. I think it only fair to state that the need of the electronics tech were not part of the design criteria with the thermal Master "P2" but it may be adapted to electronics and PCB inspection duties if desired, just like any thermal imaging camera. I found the minimum focus distance of the Thermal Master "P2" to be 15cm. At this distance, larger electronic components were clearly visible but smaller SMD components less so. The "P2" is still more than capable of displays a component that is getting hot on a PC though. It just cannot shoe that component clearly to the user without a close-up lens attached.So what about first impressions whilst actually using the Thermal Master P2 ?The problem I face when testing 256 x 192 pixel cameras is that I normally use professional thermal cameras of QVGA (320 x 240 pixels) or higher resolution. I have to adjust my expectations down a little when using the lower resolution cameras as I miss the fine detail that I am used to seeing from more expensive, higher resolution cameras. My first thoughts regarding the Thermal Master "P2" were "something is not right here". I was imaging a towns street at night and was getting imagery of the buildings and trees. I was seeing strange mosaic effects that I was not used to seeing when imaging such a scene. At first I thought it was due to the resolution of the camera not being able to adequately image the scenes but the effect was unusual. Further investigation revealed the cause of the issue. The Thermal Master "P2" mobile phone APP now includes an image processor called the "X3" that is supposed to improve the imagery produced by the cameras 256 x 192 pixel microbolometer. I have not been able to obtain a detailed description of what the "X3" mode actually does or how it works, but I believe that a dreaded AI software engine may be involved. I can advise that the "X3" mode did negatively impact the frame rate being provided by the camera system and this was especially noticeable when viewing moving cars where the image was particularly choppy. I believe this to be due to the "X3" mode image processing overhead as the situation resolved itself when the "X3" mode was disabled. On that point, kudos to the APP writers in so far as they permit the wondrous "X3" enhancement mode to be disabled if desired. From my testing I believe that the "X3" tries to enhance the images coming from the imaging core but can be "confused" by some scenes and it is this that results in the weird blotchy mosaic effect that I was noting when imaging buildings and trees. I cannot criticize an image processing system if it fails under some unusual situation provided it offers the required enhancement when operating in more common scenarios. The fact that the "X3" mode may be disabled leaves the user in control of the situation. I have to advise that even when the "X3" mode is active I have seen some very "over-processed" images being displayed by this camera. When the imaging is good, it is very good, but at times the images look like you are looking through a blurring filter as detail is absent. Judge for yourself when you view the images that I include in this thread. I am uploading both the good and not so good imagery in order to provide a balanced picture of this camera. For me, the "X3" mode needs to be used with care as it can certainly enhance an image, but it can also make a mess of it. Use with care.So what did the "X3" mode provide during my testing of the Thermal Master "X3" ?This image enhancement mode is not that different to other cameras that I have used in that it tries to tidy up the relatively low resolution image so that it is more pleasing to the human eye. It is what I call "Pretty Pictures" mode. The software acts upon the sharp jagged edges within an image that are caused by the pixel steps of non vertical or non horizontal thermal transitions within the scene. The "X3" mode effectively removes the jagged edges of square pixels and softens the thermal transition at the same time. This could be seen as a negative change in an image by purists but for those looking for nicer images the "X3" mode does its best to present such to the user.There is likely a lot more going on in the "X3" mode than just edge smoothing but that is the most obvious effect of the mode. I suspect that the whole image is analyzed by the enhancement software with a view to improving detail visibility and generally tidying up the image. That said, as I have seen, it can become confused by some scenes and may need to be disabled under those circumstances. During my testing I captured images with the "X3" mode enabled and also disabled to show the difference. Some images benefitted more from the "X3" treatment than others.Was the imagery produced by the Thermal Master "P2" any good ?Yes, I am pleased to advise that most of the imagery that I captured whilst testing the new "P2" was typical of that produced by a decent quality 256 x 192 pixel thermal camera dongle. As has been stated, the "X3" mode can take some getting used to but it did not prevent the capture of some good quality thermal images as it may be disabled when required. I believe that the Thermal Master "P2" would satisfy the needs of most users wishing to own a general use thermal imaging camera. The thermal Master "P2" does not stand out from the crowd as a new revolution in affordable thermal imaging BUT it is being brought to the market at a good price and it does deliver on its promises when it comes to capturing decent thermal imagery (within the constraints of its 256 x 192 pixel resolution). For best frame rate, the "X3" image enhancement mode may need to be disabled but this is not a criticism of the design. Image processing can be host processor power hungry, especially if AI software is involved. I did have a few APP crashes during my use of the camera. I found that if I tried to capture images too quickly in succession the APP would sometimes close itself and would need to be restarted. The crashes did not effect the mobile phone at all and the APP restarted without incident. I also had very occasional failures in the FFC function where the FFC flag failed to operate and created some unusual images ! This may well be a fault in my specific "P2" unit though. There is a bug in the APP that occurs when the camera is removed from the phone and reconnected. The APP will start but will show an incorrect temperature measurement until such time as an FFC event occurs. This is only a few seconds but it can be confusing to the user when the temperature is suddenly incorrect or suddenly increases after the FFC event.Data security and privacy relates issue ?Now to a matter that is of some concern to those who might share the images that have been captured by the Thermal Master APP. The APP attaches metadata to each image that includes the GPS location data and this is not a function that may be disabled in the APP. When sharing images from the APP, the user needs to remove the metadata if the GPS location is present and sensitive. I am using a FastStone viewer program to do this for me so that I can post the images on this forum. Also note that the APP upscales the images it saves to 1080 x 1440 pixels (~5MB) ! It would be good if Thermal Master updated the APP to permit the exclusion of GPS data from the saved image metadata and offered a lower resolution option for the saved images. Of note is the fact that when I removed all EXIF meta data from the saved images, they decreased in size from ~5MB to just ~500KB. That is a lot of data stored along side those images. Presumably this is mostly radiometric data. I have not investigate the contents of the EXIF metadata and interestingly, my earlier saved images contain GPS data, yet the most recent images contain no such GPS data in the EXIF metadata. Maybe Thermal Master have updated the APP to stop saving the GPS data ?Do I like the APP that Thermal Master provide for their "P2" camera ?In truth, no. I do not like the ergonomics of the APP and found it irritating to use as I hunted for features that are normally just a button press away for me. With time I got used to the APP but I still find it a bit of a faff to use. This is one thing that users of mobile phone based thermal camera dongles need to accept.... the APPs are not always that easy to use and holding a mobile phone to capture an image whilst trying to also access the required menus can be a miserable experience. This is true of many mobile phone apps for thermal imaging cameras. The APP does the job but could benefit from improvement when it comes to easy access to regularly used functions. Why can't these companies copy the logical layout of the menus found on the FLIR Ex series cameras eh ? On the Thermal Master supplied APP you have to exit the camera mode to access stacked menu settings in order to change the Emissivity value of the target ! Then there is the "Home" screen where you need to press a camera icon to reveal the save button ! Why not just have the camera icon as the save button ? There are likely more annoying APP issues but these two really bugged me during use. Something else that bugged me was the fact that the APP only partially responds to phone rotation. It rotates the measurement readings and the colour bar (when enabled) in live mode but saves all images and the colour bar in portrait modeAfter downloading saved images I had to rotate all images 90 degree counter clockwise as I was mostly imaging in Landscape mode. This seems a surprising oversight by the APP developer. Maybe the world only takes mobile phone pictures in portrait format these days ?Use for PCB diagnostics ?I have deliberately not focussed my testing on PCB diagnostics as I was specifically told by Thermal Master that such was not its primary intended use. That said I will show what may be achieved in this role, with the caveat that the use is outside that intended by the OEM. I will use a close-up lens to demonstrate the improvement in performance that such offers and this will be no different to many other dongle cameras. Without a close-focus lens the minimum focus distance was found to be 15cm. A focus test and temperature measurement accuracy test is included in the captured images.Captured imagesI am including a large number of images that I captured during field testing of the Thermal Master "P2" as a picture speaks a thousand words. I will annotate some where necessary but this is more to give readers an idea of the imagery that the "P2" can produce in general use. The images are larger size than I would normally post here but this is the size produced by the Thermal Master provided APP and downsizing them would potentially affect image quality, rendering them useless.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:38:15 pm
content: The full set of 18 focus and resolution images that provide the minimum focus distance and the point at which detail of the test Grille is lost.The Test Grille Black Body is set to a temperature of 30 Celsius, whilst the Black Body on the left is set to 40 Celsius.The Grille uses slots that are 2.0mm in width and the Grille circle diameter is 63mm. The lower Grille width is 60mm. The distance between the target Grille and camera was increased by 5cm with each saved image.The distance of the Camera from the Grille is shown at the end of each images file name.The Thermal Master "X3" image enhancement mode was on in this images. Another set of images will be uploaded that have the "X3" mode switched off.Additional comment 26/02/2025To assist those not familiar with IFOV in understanding the images that follow showing a grille test chart I am adding more comment here.When considering the capabilities of a thermal imaging system Instantaneous Field of View is one of the specifications of interest. IFOV is basically an angle figure that helps the user understand the size of an area on a target that illuminates just one pixel on the microbolometer. The size of the area on the target illuminating only one pixel increases with distance.The IFOV for the Thermal Master P2 camera with its 56 Degree HFOV lens and 256 Horizontal 12um Pixels is 3.81792 mRadAt 10cm the pixel size on target is: 0.38mmAt 15cm the pixel size on target is: 0.57mmAt 20cm the pixel size on target is: 0.76mmAt 30cm the pixel size on target is: 1.14mmAt 60cm the pixel size on target is: 2.29mmAt 90cm the pixel size on target is: 3.43mmAt 120cm the pixel size on target is: 4.58mmThe Grille has slots in it that are 2.0mm in width. As such the IFOV related "pixel on target" size calculations suggest that at around 60cm distance between the thermal emitter grille and the camera, only one pixel will see the width of the slot. There are more pixels seeing the slot in the greater lengthways direction, but at 60cm we have reached the distance limit where a single pixel is fully illuminated by the width of the slot. At greater distances, a single pixel will be partially illuminated by the slots width. For detailed imagery, it is desirable to have as many pixels covering the area of interest as possible. More powerful lenses are used to make this happen or the distance to target needs to be reduced. For temperature measurements, its is advisable to ensure that at least 4 pixels (2x2) are illuminated by the area of interest and many thermographers would recommend a minimum of 9 pixels (3x3) for measurements. If only one pixel is seeing the area of interest, it is all too easy for camera noise reduction processes and noise to mask that pixels signature and accurate measurements can be challenging. The user would have to ensure that the pixel is being fully illuminated, just as with single pixel IR thermometers. A single pixel may also suffer from not being in perfect optical alignment with the area of interest, leading to two or more adjacent pixels sharing the thermal energy and causing measurement errors.In the Grille test we see that the Thermal Master performs well and as expected. The grille aperture continues to be imaged beyond the predicted 60cm single pixel point but we know that errors may be creeping into the image due to poor illumination of pixels by the 2.0mm width of the grille slots. I found nothing to suggest that the Thermal Master P2 is not providing its full 256 x 192 pixel resolution and its optics, though quite wide angle, are operating correctly. The "X3" image enhancement mode does its best to clean up the image of the grille and maintain edge sharpness.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:44:46 pm
content: Continued....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:49:46 pm
content: The same test run but with the Thermal Master "X3" mode switched off.This shows the more natural image that is normally seen from a 256 x 192 pixel Infiray Tiny based core.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:51:40 pm
content: Continued.....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 05:55:41 pm
content: A simple comparison between the images captured with the "X3" enhancement mode active and then with it switched off.First image : "X3" mode onSecond image : "X3" mode offDistance to target is 20cm so greater than the minimum focus distance.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:01:42 pm
content: A measurement accuracy test was carried out using the Black Body on the left that was set to a known accurate temperature of 40 Degrees Celsius.Both the Black Body and the Thermal Master P2 had been allowed to temperature stabilise before the test.The resultant measurement was well within specification and impressively so.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:06:52 pm
content: A fault occurred during the Temperature test that had occurred previously but was infrequent. The symptoms suggest that the FFC flag had failed to move across the optical path so the thermal scene became the FFC reference, with interesting effects, as can be seen. The situation was corrected at the next FFC event. The particular camera being tested may have a fault in the FFC flag mechanism and it is not suggested that this is a common fault on these cameras. It is no surprise that the cameras temperature measurements were way off being accurate as the FFC flag is used as a temperature reference during an FFC event.I also attach the captured images from a previous FFC failure during a previous accuracy test.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:30:18 pm
content: Part of my testing of a camera includes a heated fine wire in a cross format that can provide insight into resolution capabilities and the effect of image processing on the common jagged edges of an angled hot wire caused by the pixel steps. A sort of stair step test. The wire is 0.4mm in diameter and is not heated to a very high temperature as such is not needed. A test run involves moving the camera away from the hot wire whilst monitoring the cameras imaging ability. At some point the resolution and optics of the camera render the fine wire almost invisible.In the attached images the first of a pair of images is with the "X3" image enhancement switched on. The second of the pair is with the "X3" off.The minimum focus point of the camera is 15cm.The distance between the hot wire target and the camera is shown at the end of the file name for each image.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:37:13 pm
content: In this set of images the hot wire target is placed 15cm from the camera to achieve acceptable focus whilst presenting the camera with the hot wire at the closest range for imaging it. The images may be examined to see the effect of the "X3" mode on the stepping normally present in an unprocessed image of an angled hot wire.The distance to loss of wire image is also attached. This test is just to show the effect of distance on the cameras ability to resolve a fine wire with its limited resolution and lens choice. The IFOV dictates the detail that may be resolved at a particular distance. In this test, the camera was just able to display something of the wire target at 135cm but the wire is virtually invisible at 175cm. The wire used in the target is 0.4mm in diameter.Once again, in these images, the first image of a pair is with "X3" mode on , and the second is with "X3 off"

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:50:11 pm
content: During testing of the Thermal Master P2 camera there was an unexpected issue if the camera was disconnected from the phone host and reconnected. The Thermal Master supplied APP recognised the camera and restarted imaging, but the temperature measurements were way off until the next FFC event, when the situation was corrected. This is not so much a "fault" but rather an issue that users should be aware of as it can appear confusing when it happens. I believe that when the camera is disconnected and reconnected to the host, a default measurement calibration is used until a true FFC flag temperature can be captured. In my testing the correct measurement of around 40 Celsius dropped to around 36 Celsius and then returned to around 40 Celsius after the first FFC event after reconnecting the camera. As I stated, this is not truly an issue in normal use of the camera. I attach images of before camera disconnection, immediately after camera reconnection and after the FFC event that corrected the issue perfectly.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 06:58:39 pm
content: For those who want to see some pictures of a PCB, I include these of a Philips Set top box. It must be stated that these are just to show what to expect from this camera in its default, as supplied, configuration without the benefit of a close up lens. I will post images of another PCB with a close up lens attached to the P2 after.Once again, in these images, the first of each pair is with the "X3" mode switched on and the second image is with "X3" switched off.The detail that is resolvable in the images is dictated by the IFOV of the camera and the minimum focus distance of its lens system. The addition of a close-up lens enables the camera to get much closer to the areas of interest whilst maintaining focus.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:08:15 pm
content: An old laptop PCB was selected as the next target. It was not optimal for the task as it was not powered and active. It did provide the required target for which many thermal imaging cameras are used in service centres etc. The imagery is not great and the close-up lens is not optimal. The close-up lens for the Infiray P2 Pro was attached to the front of the Thermal Master P2 using the integrated magnets but this was less than satisfactory. Good enough for a test though. I noted vignetting when using the close-up lens from the P2 Pro so it would be better to make a custom close-up lens more suited to the Thermal Master P2.The first of each pair of images is with the "X3" mode switched on, and the second image is with "X3" switched off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:37:42 pm
content: Continued......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:40:38 pm
content: Continued.......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:55:49 pm
content: Now for some CatsNow these are serious test subjects. Their fur makes for a challenging thermal resolution test that a 256 x 192 pixel camera struggles with.It is interesting to compare the unprocessed images of the cats fur with those that the "X3" image enhancement mode has tried to "improve". It basically does it’s best with the scene but is it actually better after the “X3” treatment ? No cats were harmed in the making of these imagesI will post the unprocessed images first this time and then the image that has been given the "X3" treatment. As I stated, cats fur is a challenge for lower resolution thermal cameras so do not judge the Thermal Master P2 too harshly.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:58:33 pm
content: More cat pictures. These are ALL unprocessed images with "X3" switched off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 07:59:59 pm
content: Cat pictures with "X3" stitched on....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:03:15 pm
content: Back to inanimate objects.... this time a kettle.First image with "X3" switched on, the second with "X3" off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:09:30 pm
content: Central heating hot water tank.There is electrical tape applied at strategic locations on the copper water pipes for temperature measurements. The tape is clearly visible in the images as bright bands on the pipes.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:17:06 pm
content: Central heating radiators.The first of the pairs of images is with the "X3” mode on and the second is with "X3" off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:18:56 pm
content: View of a kitchenFirst image "X3" on, second image "X3" off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:21:41 pm
content: Mug of hot water.First image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:23:24 pm
content: Pan of water heating on hobFirst image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:24:22 pm
content: Table lampFirst image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:26:31 pm
content: Engine compartment of Nissan X-Trail with Petrol engine.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:33:03 pm
content: Me ! after a walk on a cold day. Hence the cold cheeks etc.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:34:45 pm
content: Wireless CCTV cameraFirst image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:39:05 pm
content: House. The outside temperature was pretty chilly.First image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:42:03 pm
content: The cats play roomFirst image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:46:56 pm
content: Small LCD Television with Amazon Firestick mounted at an angle on its rear (for best Wi-Fi signal)First image of pair is with "X3" mode on and the second image is with "X3" mode off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:52:05 pm
content: Nightime in Morton-in MarshI believe that the "X3" mode was on in these images as it caused some strange effects

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 08:55:54 pm
content: Morton-in-Marsh continued

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:03:16 pm
content: Morton-in-Marsh continued...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:07:16 pm
content: Morton-in Marsh continued.....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:13:44 pm
content: Visit to Shropshire......

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:16:39 pm
content: Shropshire visit - Telecoms cabinets that contain fibre optic communications equipment and the local electricity sub-station transformer

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:21:24 pm
content: Shropshire visit

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:26:50 pm
content: Shropshire visit...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:30:51 pm
content: Shropshire visit ....We popped into the village shop during our walk so I took a picture of the open fronted drinks fridge.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:34:55 pm
content: Shropshire visit....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:39:53 pm
content: Shropshire visit.....Spot the Chickens !

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 09:46:41 pm
content: Well that is the end of the image uploads.Make of the "X3" image enhancement what you will. In many cases I did not like its effect on the images as it made them look "weird" almost like some sort of artistic "oil painting" filter had been applied. Thankfully Thermal Master provide the user with the option to switch off the "X3" image enhancement when not desired.That is all for now folks.Fraser

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:24:00 pm
content: I wonder if the problem with adding EXIF location is more to do with the phone.Assuming the 'app' uses the phone camera functionality, having embedding location in EXIF would be pretty standard on any photographic system these days.Readily obliterated by open-save in something like an old version of PaintshopPSI recognise that Hotel !Bill

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:05:57 pm
content: Thanks for this very thorough selection of sample images.A couple of things I'd like to know (apologies if I missed them) :1. What's the FOV and the parameters (focal length, sensor size, I guess) leading to it ?2. Is the data from the camera available outside the app, eg by connecting it to a PC as a USB device ?I ask this specifically wrt 3rd party processing of the images. I'd like to know if it's a useful device to use for vertical applications either by reading the sensor directly or by doing downstream processing (preferably live) of the supplier's stored data.It seems to me that there's lots of interesting possibilities created by using these cameras to feed other processing not considered in the apps. You can do this with visible images from the phone's camera and you should be able to do it with IR images.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:37:22 pm
content: The HFOV is 56 degrees and the VFOV is 42.2 degrees.The imaging array is 256 x 192 12 um pixels. I will work out the IFOV and add it here.Sadly the Thermal Master P2 is not described as PC compatible and no software is made available for its use with a PC or MAC. That said,Thermal Master do offer a PC software package for use of the P2 with a PC. I have not tried using the Thermal Master P2 with Infiray P2/ P2 Pro compatible programs yet, but will see if my Infiray SDK will talk with it. From what I understand, this P2 uses a different VID and PID to that of the Infiray P2 and P2 Pro and this will cause problems for software that checks for a camera using VID & PID data. If Thermal Master offer an SDK for their P2, that will contain the required API but that does not provide direct access to the camera. The access will always be via the API as I believe this is essential for correct operation of this camera. All to be confirmed and I will look into it.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 11:46:52 pm
content: The IFOV for the Thermal Master P2 camera with its 56 Degree HFOV lens and 256 Horizontal 12um Pixels is 3.81792 mRadAt 10cm the pixel size on target is: 0.38mmAt 15cm the pixel size on target is: 0.57mmAt 20cm the pixel size on target is: 0.76mmAt 30cm the pixel size on target is: 1.14mmAt 60cm the pixel size on target is: 2.29mmAt 90cm the pixel size on target is: 3.43mmAt 120cm the pixel size on target is: 4.58mmThese are the same figures as for the Infiray P2 Pro that I previously reviewed.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 12:16:22 pm
content: I have heard from Thermal Master regarding my comments about the “X3” image enhancement mode. They are aware that the “X3” mode works well for many thermal scenes but less so for some others. It is a new image enhancement technique that they are continuing to develop and thanked me for my feedback that helps their development team understand any issues. I have looked back through my saved images and what they say is very true. The “X3” image enhancement works very well indeed when it is able to make sense of the thermal scene. The mages I captured of the kitchen scene, mug, kettle, pan, lamp and cats play room are good examples of this. They all benefitted from the use of the “X3” enhancement. For some reason the images of buildings that I captured whilst visiting Morton-in-Marsh appear better than those that I captured during my visit to Shropshire. From memory, I had the “X3” mode active in both locations. Some of the buildings in Morton-in-Marsh are very old and leak heat. Maybe this is why they image better than the well insulated homes in Shropshire ? Thermal contrast in a scene, and lack thereof can significantly influence the visible detail.It is good to hear that Thermal Master acknowledge that the “X3” mode is not best suited to every thermal scene and that they intend to continue with its development. The ability to switch off the “X3” enhancement mode enables the user to decide whether they want it applied to a particular thermal scene so the user has control. The “X3” mode is another tool in the users “toolbox” on this camera solutionIt should be stated that even with the “X3” mode switched off, there will still be the standard, essential, image processing applied to the output of the Microbolometer so the user loses nothing compared to other similar cameras when electing to switch off “X3”.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 01:30:28 pm
content: Artag,If you take a look at the review I referenced in my first post, you will find details of how the Thermal Master P2 behaves when connected to a PC. In short, it can operate with a PC host as a UVC camera, like many other dongle type thermal cameras. That said, how much information may be extracted for 3rd party applications I do not know.The review may be found here and details of PC connectivity are at the end.https://goughlui.com/2024/10/15/review-thermalmaster-p2-usb-c-thermal-camera-256x192-25hz-40mk/Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 02:46:50 pm
content: I have added additional comment to the post I made detailing the Grille emitter resolution and IFOV test. If anyone was unaware of why I carry out that test, please revisit the post to see the explanation.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/thermal-master-p2-testing-by-fraser-with-plenty-of-images-to-view/msg5830463/#msg5830463Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 06:41:35 pm
content: Software for use of the P2 with a PCHaving just checked the Thermal Master web site download page, I see that they have released a software package for using the P2 (Android) with a PC.I have downloaded it and will report back on what I think of its features.https://thermalmaster.com/pages/download-centerFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 08:02:21 pm
content: More information on the Thermal Master "X3" mode from Thermal Master advertising...."[512 × 384 IR Resolution] Utilizing advanced algorithms like Razor X and TEMP IQ+, when X³ turn on, P2 IR Resolution is 512× 384 and 40mK high sensitivity. It can easily detect temperature changes within 0.04℃ and provide clearer, more detailed thermal images."Temp IQ+ is apparently responsible for the accuracy of temperature measurements whilst the Thermal Master "X3" mode is, in fact a "SuperResolution" function to enhance the 256x192 pixel image and provide a 512x384 pixel SuperResolution image. These SuperResolution functions usually use the inherent hand shake present in handheld devices to improve the microbolometers effective optical resolution to some extent.Fraser

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 03:41:34 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 25, 2025, 05:09:52 pmFraser, that is a VERY extensive and impressive review. Unless the P2 sells for about $20k or more Thermal Master got a great deal on your services by trading the camera for your work.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 12:20:10 pm
content: Electro Fan,Thank you. I enjoy testing thermal imaging systems but it does take quite a lot of my time to do so. I take absolutely no credit for the thorough written review that I linked to in this thread. It was the work of another and not me. My brief review on the EEVBlog forum is intended to give readers an insight into the Thermal Master product and is not as detailed as that which I produced for the a Infiray P2 Pro. With a great written review already available at the referenced link, it made no sense to repeat its content here.Thank you for your kind comment. I create these reviews to entertain & inform others, but I enjoy seeing how some of these modern thermal cameras perform, both in bench tests and in the fieldThe world of consumer thermal imaging has made great advances in recent years.I would do more such reviews but sadly my finances prevent the purchase of test units so I have to rely on samples supplied by the manufacturer and they are few these days. I have previously written to several manufacturers asking to borrow thermal cameras for testing and review but there was little interest once they knew I was not a Vblogger and “Influencer”Thermal Master appear to value my feedback and so sent me the P2.Fraser

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 07:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 27, 2025, 12:20:10 pmHi Fraser, I’m sure you are definitely an Influencer in the EEVblog Thermal Imaging forum and I’m confident many other EEVblog members agree. I’m also confident that EEVblog has a bunch of visibility along with some influence on manufacturers in the thermal camera market in addition to influence on many other adjacent test equipment markets and their customers - so perhaps the thermal camera manufacturers will realize that what members here figure out often becomes what happens next on youtube and influencer sites throughout the Internet. I’m betting lots of members here see the cascading sequence of what causes what. No doubt manufacturers can benefit from seeing their products through the eyes, discussions, and experiences of EEVblog members.Thx again for your contributions.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 08:57:17 pm
content: Very interesting point about the app's refusal to save an image without a GPS fix.Crippling for a HVAC or electrical engineer trying to record problems in a basement.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 09:59:02 pm
content: artag,No, it is OK, I think the reviewer meant the GPS receiver has to be activated for the APP rather than supplying valid data. I used the camera and APP underground where no GPS was present and the save function worked fine.Fraser

author: Danielsan79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 12:44:05 am
content: Hi, do you have any plans to review the Thermal Master X3 model? Would be interesting. I hope they release 640x480 models in that price range or a bit higher soon, i thought that would happen in 2025 but obviously i have to wait longer

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2025, 04:30:50 pm
content: If Thermal Master are willing to supply me with an X3 to test, I will happily test and review itFraser

author: NicoBrico
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 08:29:56 am
content: Wow, super detailed review!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2025, 10:32:31 am
content: I am being sent a Thermal Master P3 to test and that has manual focus macro capabilitiesFraser

author: ifonlyeverything
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2025, 01:21:50 pm
content: Does the software support manually defined level and span?

author: LazyDebug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 03, 2025, 02:07:24 am
content: Yes, it does.

author: Funn_Indication
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 03, 2025, 07:47:30 am
content: Great write-up — I’ve been using the P2 for a few weeks now, and your observations line up closely with what I’ve seen. The compact size really does make it easy to keep in a toolkit, and the image quality from the Tiny1 series core is surprisingly good for such a small package. I especially appreciate the stable 25 Hz refresh rate — no noticeable lag when scanning across a board or checking for thermal drift on components.One thing worth mentioning for others considering the P2: the app’s manual mode is quite handy. You can lock the temperature range when you need consistent readings, which helps a lot when comparing before/after thermal profiles on power circuits. Also, I’ve noticed that even after a long session (10+ minutes) the housing only gets mildly warm, so it seems to manage internal heat well.