Navy learning to sail by the stars for the first time in a 10 years. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 12:40:20 am
content: This is interesting reading. The US Navy is back to teaching basic navigation, paper maps, compass, sextants, ect.There was a better article I read at work but I can not find it right now, I will keep looking or some else can post it. The better article referenced a fictional book were the enemy took out the satellites and jammed the communications and we were were literately dead in the water not knowing what to do. The book is now recommended reading for academy students.Here is this article, I will keep looking for the better one.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/02/17/why-naval-academy-students-are-learning-to-sail-by-the-stars-for-the-first-time-in-a-decade/

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 02:33:30 am
content: Makes perfect sense! I'm surprised they weren't already learning these "legacy" skills. Australian Army, Navy and Air Force all train for basic survival skills during basic training and through routing exercises. This includes being able to navigate yourself from A-to-B. Even at work, I see young people not being able to use a street directory. It's just far too easy to punch something into Google Maps and have it do the work for you.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 02:39:12 am
content: I actually keep around stuff like bus schedules (I have a stack about 3 cm thick) for the local system because they are so useful. Of course I could use google maps even without data (No data connection), but it's not good for whipping out a schedule and using it on the fly. It's also good so I can give lost riders a map to use or borrow. It's also a bit of a collection thing too. Even still I tend to use more antiquated methods like maps and just asking people. I have a smartphone, but no data for it, and I wouldn't use it anyways.

author: steve_w
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 03:14:21 am
content: When I was in the air force I learned the value of the stars,the army sleep under the stars,the navy navigate by the stars andthe air force uses stars to select accommodation, the more the better.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 03:39:49 am
content: It's surprising to me that they ever stopped teaching this. It seems like a no brainer to have people on a naval vessel that can navigate without electronics in case of war, EMPs, etc.In college I had to take a geography course to meet breadth requirements and took a celestial navigation course. This was in 1983 - long before civilian GPS availability. I remember it as great fun - learning stars, looking up the necessary values in thick books full of tables. I wish I still had those skills....

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 03:41:23 am
content: ... and NASA used stars as navigation fixed points on the way to the moon. Essentially sextant method, as far as I understand.https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=nasa+star+navigation+apollo

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 03:46:55 am
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on September 05, 2016, 03:41:23 amAs did/do long range spy aircraft and bombers - the SR71, B2 bomber, etc... - well not to get to the moon.Ironic that the article cited shows a picture of teaching using a laptop computer. It seems it's harder to get away from dependence on electronics than just ditching the GPS would suggest. Sextant, books,pencil and paper is all they should need.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 05:23:41 am
content: Used to work instruments/autopilot/INS on B-52's. During maintenance debriefs, I used to have to ask the pilot/copilot if they used the sextant, if it worked ok, fogging in the optics, and so on.Last time I remember hearing an affirmative answer was sometime around July 1994. Took a 3 month working vacation off the flightline. When I came back in October-ish, I remember asking the question and getting a look from the aircrew like I had just turned stupid or something.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 05:47:54 am
content: Even a basic understanding can be useful.20 years ago I had to visit someone in a place I was completely unfamiliar with. I managed to locate them OK - but on the way back home I got turned around and didn't know which way was what. My street directory was on the dining table at home and it was very late on a moonless night - and far too late to go knocking on people's doors.I knew there was a main road to the east, which, once found, would take me home - but which way was east?So I stopped, got out of the car and looked up into the sky. I found the Southern Cross, worked out where south was ... and found my road home in under 5 minutes.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 05:54:21 am
content: Quote from: Skimask on September 05, 2016, 05:23:41 amMy dad worked on the Astro-inertial guidance sytems for the SR-71 and B2 bomber (Northrop electronics division). These systems use celestial observations to correct inertial navigation errors. No pilot input needed...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 05:56:16 am
content: Ahhh... the SR-71. My favourite aircraft.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 06:04:23 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 05, 2016, 05:56:16 amIronically, an aircraft almost completely made from Titanium bought from the USSR and South Africa. They then flew recon missions over both countries.

author: albert22
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 06:21:14 pm
content: A sextant by itself is not enough to determine position. You need to know the time with accuracy. That is why a marine chronometer was aboard. Then you could know your longitude. To get position in latitude and longitude you also need an almanac to know the position of the stars and tables or other means to solve the spherical triangle. An estimate of position is also required.Nowadays the thick books with the almanacs and tables can be replaced easily by a laptop.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 07:51:14 pm
content: The resurgence of old school navigation is likely due to the vulnerability of GPS to jamming. Jamming can be mitigated, but it's really going to take eLoran implementation to make electronic navigation robust against interferers.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 08:46:51 pm
content: Quote from: Homer J Simpson on September 05, 2016, 12:40:20 amI seem to remember a documentary on board an aircraft carrier that every day some guy had to use a sextant to find the ships position so they knew how to do it if they had to , I guess they stopped doing it

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 09:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on September 05, 2016, 05:54:21 amAstro-Tracker (as it was called on the BUFF) was gone before I got a chance to break anything on it.