HELP!!! Cleaned Aluminium Front Panel and all the lettering came off!!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: Chris56000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:17:54 pm
content: Hi!I'm in a rather daft predicament at work!I put one of those small 1U 19" type aluminum front panels from a pcb at work to clean off the yellow dirt and grot on it in our hot wash tank and all the bloody lettering came straight off!!!It was only lettered in ordinary Helvetica lettering and I can easily re–create the label design, but I'm looking for some means of printing them on the panel – I've got a HP colour laser at home & I bought a roll of self–adhesive vinyl from my local craft store – will this melt in the fuser, or is there a special setting for vinyl on the printer?I need to get this sorted somehow before my grumpy Manager gets back on Monday, so ordering online is out of the question!By the way I'm in the UK so American store brands are no good to me!Any quick suggestions please?Chris WilliamsPS!There was another (clean!) unit the same for me to take the measurements, size, spacing, positioning, etc., of the original labels by the way!

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:24:20 pm
content: https://www.google.com/search?q=letrasetEdit:https://www.ebay.com/bhp/dry-transfer-lettersAnd afterwards some spray-on lacquer.Good luck,DC1MC

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:32:11 pm
content: Unless the vinyl is designed for a laser printer it will probably melt and destroy the fuser.You could try the 'toner transfer' idea that's used to make circuit boards. Create a mirror image version of your label, print it on transparency, special toner transfer paper, coated inkjet paper, or (my favorite) store flyers that have a shiny finish. Then you have to use an iron or a hot laminator to transfer the toner to the aluminum panel. A clear coat spray afterward would be a good idea.If you've never done something like this, it might take multiple attempts.Good luck!Ed

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:47:05 pm
content: I'm pretty sure you could get a Brother label maker in the UK. I don't know what they might cost, but in the US, they are around 50 dollars. You can get clear tape stock. It seems to be pretty durable and you can choose between several fonts and sizes.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:48:55 pm
content: If it comes down to it, a fine brush, a steady hand, and some black paint (or black primer, which will stick better) will do alright if you cover it with some polyurethane or something. Not super uniform lettering unless you're really good, but legible. Something like a paint pen and an overcoat could probably do alright too.

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:56:49 pm
content: It doesn't take much to remove some silk screening. I've had some instruments where the printing started coming off with Windex ammonia based glass cleaner.

author: JFJ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:37:42 pm
content: Earlier this week, I noticed that my local Aldi store hadDymo Labelmakermachines for £14.99, andClear Plastic Label Tapesfor £3.69 each. It may not be an ideal solution, but it would be quick an easy.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:54:10 pm
content: It is highly unlikely that you will put back that bloody lettering so good that nobody notices. It could be so that by trying to fix it, you will do next bad thing to that panel. My suggestion would be - don't try to hide it, admit what happened. After all your intentions was good. Everybody sometimes makes mistake. Yes, I don't know your manager. If he is capable to fire you just because of such minor mistake- try to fix it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 08:54:10 pmI'm with ogden. Hiding the problem only leads to further complications and makes you look dishonest. Cleaning equipment is hardly a grave offense. Honest mistakes can and will happen and people regularly break very expensive things. Being upfront also allows the problem to be fixed properly, which is in everyone's best interest.At least you didn't drop a satellite causing $135 million worth of damage.

author: anachrocomputer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:21:13 pm
content: There was an article on Hackaday today about using over-the-counter phone customisation services to deposit etch resist on PCBs. It seems that you can go to a booth at the shopping mall and get images printed onto small metal objects (typically phones) for customisation. Now, I've never seen such a booth, but there again I wasn't looking for one! If you could find one, and somehow give them the artwork and the metal panel, I wonder if they could print on it? They appear to use "UV printers", whatever they are.

author: cvanc
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:42:25 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2018, 09:10:40 pmWow! I zoomed in on that and it appears there was not one damn bolt trying to hold it to the platform. Someone totally skipped that step

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:52:00 pm
content: https://www.stereoping.com/eurorack-frontplatten-erstellen-mit-der-toner-transfer-methode/?lang=en

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2018, 09:10:40 pmor drill a hole in a part for the spacestation and cover it up with a bit of glue

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 10:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: cvanc on September 20, 2018, 09:42:25 pmThe bolts were fitted and later removed by others. The people who were tilting the satellite didn't check again. There's a detailed report on what happened.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 10:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 20, 2018, 09:53:38 pmI missed that glue bit and don't see much about it. Where did you read that?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 10:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2018, 10:20:24 pmI can't remember, but from what I understand someone at the factory drilled a hole in the wrong place orthe drill slipped, instead of fixing it properly it was glued. Maybe the guy did it to hide his mistake,maybe he was told to hide it

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 03:52:00 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 20, 2018, 10:56:34 pmA bit like the Chinese transmitters we had at one of my jobs.They stuffed up when tapping one of the screw holes to fit a cover panel, so they stuck a self tapper in that hole.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:03:42 am
content: I would use a DTP or Inkscape like program to make a new front panel to size and go to a copy shop to print it on a large format printer. I would make a bunch of them because you're not unlikely to need several tries. Then I would perhaps laminate it to prevent the printing from being destroyed, then I would cut it very precisely and - this is going to be hard, maybe glue orit in place. After you put knobs, etc, on it may look okay. Keep it simple. Use a nice simple font.

author: Koray
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:05:22 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 20, 2018, 10:20:24 pmSpace station air leak: someone drilled the hole, say Russianshttps://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/05/space-station-air-leak-someone-drilled-the-hole-say-russians?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:06:00 am
content: You can get waterslide decal material that can be laser printed, I've used transparent stuff to make decals for model airplanes.

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 12:03:49 pm
content: I would call around to professional print shops and see what they could do. Also ask them how to protect the print so this doesn't happen again. If they have no solution for protection, I would find a spray can solution over entire plate of transparent plastic coating of some type. All of this is not cheap, so I would wait and let the manager decide this and offer your solution from shop, i.e. price/time etc. and make them (your company) pay for it. This is normal operating costs, not your fault. Grumpy manager or not this is best way. Then take the plate to the most promising shop.One thing that you must realize is that grumpy managers are there to handle such matters. If manager gets grumpy because you bring a problem to them, you should not take this as being grumpy to you, you should throw up your grumpy manager shield and do what is right, allow manager to make this decision, but give them some options/solutions. Often, you don't know why managers are grumpy, could be pressure from above or simply a bad disposition.Hope this helps...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 03:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: Chris56000 on September 20, 2018, 07:17:54 pmIMNSHO you would be unwise to try to conceal your cockup.When I've cocked up, I've instantly openly told my managers. There has been no comeback. It has confirmed that I am an honest employee. If I can say what lead to the cockup and why it won't happen again, so much the better.When people have tried to conceal things from managers, particularly if they have lied, I have see repurcussions up to and including instant dismissal. The basic problem is that the managers then know that they can't trust you and your integrity.OTOH it is beneficial that, when you reveal your cockup, you also suggest one or more possible remedial actions.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 03:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 21, 2018, 03:27:16 pmI would agree there. I have screwed up a few times at work, everybody does sooner or later. I've always told someone right away and have always been commended for doing so rather than trying to sweep it under the rug.

author: Bashstreet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:47:04 pm
content: It is best to fess up and tell what happened.If the manager is total nutter he will find reason to fire you sooner or later any case.I do not know circumstances of your position or the company or people you work with but covering up error can bite you in ass later.This really is such a minor error that i cannot believe anyone getting fired over it if there really is such risk and the company is run like madhouse maybe you should hide your error....but that just sounds...Best of luck any case keep us posted.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 06:06:32 pm
content: Life lessons learned, if you screw up, admit it, own the problem and fix itor at least make sure they know you can, it builds character and earns you respect.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 06:11:20 pm
content: Where is Chris? Did he sell his computer because he lost his job?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 06:22:56 pm
content: Last seen trying to clean melted sticky backed vinyl out of the office laser printer I think

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2018, 01:26:07 am
content: A sign maker could cut out a sticker for you.You can use the cut out lettering directly and be done, or use the 'negative' of the cutout as a stencil to repaint the lettering onto the panel.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2018, 04:42:53 pm
content: Quote from: anachrocomputer on September 20, 2018, 09:21:13 pmThey mean industrial inkjet with UV-cure lacquer inks.Ordinary inkjet uses solvent-based inks (usually water based, but organic solvent based in some industrial inkjets, like the ones used to print expiration dates on jars), so the solvent must evaporate for the ink to cure, which won’t work properly on all materials. Water based inks must absorb into the surface a bit, to prevent wicking and to give the water time to evaporate.UV-cure lacquer inkjet doesn’t rely on the ink drying at all. Instead, strong UV light cures it. Same principle as dental sealants, UV cure adhesives, etc. The inkjet lacquer droplets just sit on the surface of the object being printed, until the UV light hardens it into a durable dot of colored resin. As such, nearly any surface is printable.

author: Chris56000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 07:51:26 pm
content: Hi!I told my manager that the lettering came off the panel when I tried to clean the yellow grot off it and he told me to try and do the best you can with transfer–lettering!!!I only finished re–lettering it this morning – it's really awkward because letters you've already done have a habit of lifting off the panel back onto the sheet again, or not going onto the metal panel!Sometimes I've been able to find another unit cheap to replace accidently–damaged cosmetic parts in the original but not this time!Chris Williams

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 08:07:40 pm
content: Something like a cheap 3D printer fitted with a plotter pen? Maybe even just the first layer of plastic would do?I ruined one of my stainless steel rulers by trying to clean it with isopropyl alcohol.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 08:11:05 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on October 25, 2018, 08:07:40 pmNow you have a very accurate steel blank.I wouldn't have thought that'd be an issue.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 08:18:48 pm
content: Quote from: Chris56000 on October 25, 2018, 07:51:26 pmThe secret with transfer lettering is to burnish them down to the panel with the backing paper that comes with the sheet and a blunt instrument (eg. back of a teaspoon). They won't lift off again then.@metrologist:At least it was areallycheap stainless steel rule.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:28:00 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on October 25, 2018, 08:07:40 pmCrazy!!! You’d think that they’d use solvent-resistant lacquers. (What brand, so I don’t ever buy it by mistake?) All my stainless rulers have engraved or etched markings filled with paint, and it never occurred to me that that isn’t universal!

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 09:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on October 25, 2018, 08:18:48 pmTwas Helix brand and old school from when they were made in USA, so that surprised me. Now they are made in China and are cheap. There is a professional version at WalMart for $20, but I will pass. I have etched precision rulers (machinist scales) for when it will matter.

author: Chris56000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2018, 09:55:35 am
content: Hi!QuoteNot so – I ain't daft enough to try anything like that on corporate machines – I've got my own at home to try with, altho' I used transfer lettering in the end!I'm showing the result to the manager who QA's my repairs on Monday!! (I'll report back what he said!!)Chris WilliamsPS!I'm pleased this thread is providing entertainment for everyone!! We all make mistakes, or the unexpected happens that causes official bother –realtricant or grumpy electronics is no respecter of gear, wether it's your own or you're repairing it in the course of employment as I was, and these things KNOW – if they can find a way of getting the most careful and dilligent employee stuck in it, they will!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2018, 02:41:23 am
content: This is a good way to make decals for an instrument, if you ever need to do a "pro" job:https://decalprofx.com/Vertical/2_EXAMPLES/2c_Customer_Photos/Customer_Examples.html

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2018, 01:19:41 pm
content: Have you tried those?Getting the entire setup is somewhat expensive (~ $100 US or so) and the process is very labor intensive.When it works it is quite impressive, but after a lot of effort I had about a 20% success rate.I was in a bind because I needed white lettering and the only economic ways to do that were Profx or an Alps printer (when I say economic, I mean spending less than several hundred US dollars). I finally ended up using some white dry transfer lettering. I just found the Profx too frustrating to deal with.At this point I am cleaning the aluminum front panel for an old R2R tape deck and I am very concerned about lifting the labeling (that's the kind of mistake you should only make once) It looks like it was dipped in a vat of cigarette tar but is coming clean with careful work and some SimpleGreen.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 04:38:38 am
content: Yes, I have the kit and also found it has a learning curve. You need more stuff than just this kit... you need the right kind of printer, and a good laminator, not to mention some kind of software for creating high resolution artwork. All of these things take time and practice to get the best out of... but it is quite enjoyable if you like doing graphics arts!I had several email exchanges and phone calls with the company (I think I was talking to the inventor of the system, he was that knowledgeable) before buying the kit.The whole process (whether used for PCBs or artwork) is critically dependent on getting a print with a nice, heavy layer of the right kind of toner on to the transfer paper. Not all toners give good results, not all printers lay it down thick enough. The supplier recommended two methods: either (1) print the artwork on any printer, then use a Canon personal copier to make the toner version, or (2) use an older HP laserjet e.g. a LJ 2200 or 2300 to print the artwork using original HP toner cartridges. Either of these are cheap on eBay.I tried both and found the Canon copier does not provide the same resolution as the laser printer, but if ultimate resolution is not important then it works fine.It was a bit of a project to find the right driver from the HP web site that would actually deliver full 1200dpi resolution from the older printers under Windows 7, but once everything was dialed in - the output is outstanding, and the toner transfer paper is 100% effective at applying it to whatever you're working on.A completely different method for making instrument panels could be to use a vinyl cutter to cut the artwork out directly from adhesive backed vinyl. I haven't tried that yet, but have recently acquired a cutter (with its own learning curve, of course) and it easily cuts precisely enough to make letters, numbers, and other graphics for a panel - in any colour (and white). This process also has a learning curve, of course. The most important part is probably to learn to enjoy the learning!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 06:38:38 am
content: Quote from: Chris56000 on October 26, 2018, 09:55:35 amHeh, excellent. It's been useful seeing all the suggestions, some Idea's I've not seen before.Pleased you sorted it out and didn't get grief for it, hopefully it passes QA.

author: Chris56000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 10:53:36 am
content: Hi!Just a quick update to let everyone know my manager passed QA on that job and didn't say anything about the remade front–panel lettering, so it's now gone back to the Customer, who hopefully won't notice one or two of the individual letters skew–whiff here and there a bit!!!Chris Williams

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 05:52:49 pm
content: If you ever have to do it again, here's how I do it-https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/lettering-panels-with-a-leroy-guide/

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2018, 10:51:41 am
content: Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on October 31, 2018, 05:52:49 pmVery interesting Conrad, I like that technique, do you know if there were different fonts and sizes or was there a trick to get different sizes from one guide (like a pantograph copying device)?*edit* answered my own question, plenty of different fonts and I think, no trick for sizes other than a new guide.Still nice but not as flexible as I'd hoped, a little expensive too once P&P is added as most sets, while quite cheap, come from the 'states so cost more to post than buy.