Is it "overclocking" when Intel advertises it? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 10:17:05 pm
content: see here.Is Intel really saying that you should run your computer "out of spec," and provide tools that enable that?Or are they just re-defining the term "overclocking?"

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 10:49:47 pm
content: It is, given this disclaimer: "Altering clock frequency or voltage may void any product warranties and reduce stability, security, performance, and life of the processor and other components."Basically they don't want to bin the processors that would 100% perform under the overclocking conditions. So they don't guarantee operation, but there is nothing wrong with trying if it works for you.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 02:30:17 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on September 08, 2021, 02:07:02 amWhy? If I don't care about the warranty why shouldn't I be allowed to overclock if I want to? PCs are so powerful now that I don't bother to overclock, but in the past I have overclocked nearly every PC I've owned. I never damaged anything doing it though they would become unstable if the clock was pushed too high. I'd rather they give me the option to easily overclock it at my own risk than not. It's my money and my choice if I want to gamble on possibly losing it.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 02:41:36 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on September 08, 2021, 02:07:02 amThe part failing in any of the billions of ways unrelated to the overclocking is irrelevant. It is only if it fails as a result of the overclocking that the warrantymaybe restricted. And it is on the purchaser to decide if they want to risk it. I see this as the other side (maybe the same side) of the coin from "right to repair" people don't want unreasonable restrictions placed on the end users right to repair their stuff. So overclock if you want to.QuoteNo-one would buy a car under these circumstances. Which is why no manufacturer makes such rules. Arguing by analogy has the limitation that it can never be stronger than the weakest part of the analogy. It is best to not take the analogy to ridiculous extremes as it has the opposite effect to that intended.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 02:49:53 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 08, 2021, 02:30:17 amWeirdly he says there is EVERYTHING wrong with it and then goes on to explain why there is NOTHING wrong with it.How would Intel even prove that a failure was due to overclocking if you denied it?Enough voltage to cause physical breakdown would be bad. Too hot would be bad, but modern CPUs protect themselves against that.Even if running a CPU hot make it fail of old age more quickly, that's still going to be after you wouldn't want to use it because it was obsolete anyway.I ran an i7-860 and then an i7-4790K continuously at 90 - 99 C for years with no hint of a failure.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 02:58:53 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on September 08, 2021, 02:41:36 amIt's possible to void the warranty by turning up the boost pressure too high on a turbocharged car. Many people still increase the boost regardless, or at least they did back before there were so many computers controlling everything and kicking fault codes.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 08:22:05 am
content: As someone who has owned four Subaru station wagons , I can say that I bought the 1995 and 1997 ones (in 2001 and 2011 respectively) used with around 100,000 km on them in full knowledge of the head gasket problem. I just mentally added the ~NZ$2500 (US$1500) cost of replacing them during a scheduled service before catastrophic failure to the cost I paid for the cars. Once you put a WRX gasket in them they stay fixed forever.I don't know anything about this coolant flush thing. I certainly haven't done it.The head gasket design problem thing is annoying but realistically it adds about 1 cent/km to the lifetime cost of running a great car that uses 20 NZc/km of fuel anyway.1995 Legacy 250T (T for Touring, JDM model, 4EAT)1997 Legacy Lancaster Grand Wagon (later similar models called "Outback", 5 SPD with dual range). Finally sold it in fine working order in 2019 as I was moving to USA.2017 Outback Touring (CVT). California model. Very sadly sold after 11 months as I returned to NZ after COVID hit.2008 Outback 2.5XT EYESIGHT (JDM model, 265 HP "WRX STI" engine in an Outback. 5EAT) Has a full suite of modern safety features including dynamic cruise control, pre-collision mitigation, lane departure warning, car in front moved off warning, Vehicle Dynamics Control. Yes, in 2008.https://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/outback/2008/brucehoult/1005227

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 03:45:07 pm
content: I suppose my point was that Intel is apparently pandering to the gamer/mod kids with the use of the particular term "Overclock" to refer to giving end users a tool to tune system performance. Most users simply run the processors at the settings determined by the motherboard/computer vendor and get on with work.Those of us who do FPGA and ASIC design for a living know that a design will usually work even if static timing analysis indicates failures, although of course it depends on the degree of fail. If a path fails by 150 ps in a 100 MHz design, it'll probably work. If it fails by 2 ns, it probably won't work. We know STA is run at "worst case" temperature and voltage settings (we have no control over the third parameter, process). The point is that STA tells us that the design isguaranteedto work at that frequency and worst-case conditions, and we don't want to ship product that fails to meet timing. (We also need to ensure that the always chip sees temperature below worst case and that voltages remain stable and at spec.)So when I see "overclockers" with crazy liquid cooling systems, I know that they're trying to find a temperature at which the timing still works, even if they have never heard of STA. They have no process/STA data; they're experimenting and looking for a point at which the system is "stable." And if it crashes, the worst that can happen is that they lose their game. As Bruce says, the processors will protect themselves from catastrophic failure.