PCB Fab houses for the US - thoughts in mid-2024?... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2024, 04:50:11 pm
content: Hi all,This is a topic that keeps on popping up here now and then, but instead of piggy-backing on an older thread, I thought I'd start fresh. As the forum platform encourages us to do.As per my profile, I am based in the US and my personal experience with ordering my designed boards for fab is:OSH Park for anything small and relatively quick. Great quality and outstanding customer service.JLCPCB for anything big, and just about as quick if not quicker. Quality is good and customer service works if needed.Are there other places I should consider? I just gave PCBWay a go - because of reading they have more affordable shipping options - and their price was about twice JLCPCBs for this board. But maybe there's other great options out there? I'd be curious if some extremely aggressive place popped up in the US, but I don;t dare think it'd manage to be cheaper than the plethora of outfits overseas.

author: SCSKITS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2024, 06:18:48 pm
content: Look at ALLPCB also, they seem to be better for boards with thicker copper if that is needed.Also, lead free HASL is standard at ALLPCB.Lately been using JLCPCB for standard 2 layer boards.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 04:05:32 am
content: Quote from: SCSKITS on August 18, 2024, 06:18:48 pmThanks for the recommendation. I gave them a shot, but the "analysis" seems to fail. May be some compatibility issue with my files, but JLCPCB successfully took them in (though the lack of drill file from Kicad is a nuisance for sure).I do appreciate the recommendation.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 02:01:37 am
content: After (probably incorrectly) concluding that JLCPCB, as opposed to PCBWay, does actual electroplating of gold on the card edge part of a board (I guess... the "fingers"), I'm now left to wonder if anyone (affordable) does actual solid gold plating on... fingers?Anyone here having some good experience with a fab house and knowing they're doing solid gold plating?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 02:50:28 am
content: Quote from: Rax on August 20, 2024, 02:01:37 amIt's a parameter at order time. You have to select gold fingers plating. It costs extra but they dont have a problem doing it.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 03:03:57 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on August 20, 2024, 02:50:28 amMy question, though, is if they actually electroplate their fingers or just have ENIG on the fingers and call it "golden?" PCBWay does that, apparently (against my initial conculsions) but it's very costly. Certainly, I understand it must amount to a pretty penny, but I'm wondering which of the other relatively affordable fabs have this as a true option.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 03:11:56 am
content: Quote from: Rax on August 20, 2024, 03:03:57 amHere is the JLC info page on the gold fingers capability.https://jlcpcb.com/quote/pcbOrderFaq/Gold%20FingersIt doesn't specifically mention a "hard gold" plating, although that is what I expect as it is an option beyond ENIG. You may want to ask their customer support about it.To see other possible PCB suppliers, put some details into the form at PCB Shopper with gold fingers selected.https://pcbshopper.com/

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 03:16:12 am
content: Quote from: Kean on August 20, 2024, 03:11:56 amMy provisional conclusion is they do ENIG on the fingers and call them "gold."Quote from: Kean on August 20, 2024, 03:11:56 amI've started surveying other fabs thorugh that website, and actually PCBgogo seems to offer hard gold plating for less than an arm and a leg. I could go for it... I'll do some reading on this forum to see if they're worth doing business with.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 03:35:16 am
content: Quote from: Rax on August 20, 2024, 03:16:12 amThen why would it be an additional option?I suggest you ask their customer service, rather than here. Maybe you could suggest they add more info to that web page.It used to be that you'd have a copper strip (lower edge) to connect all the fingers in your Gerber file to allow for the electroplating. That would be removed during the bevel of the edges, so you'd want to discuss the process with them if it is the first time you've done it.I recall some of the ordering pages (maybe not JLC) specifying "hard gold" (i.e. electroplated) and a quick web search brought up some additional links on the JLC blog...https://jlcpcb.com/blog/comprehensive-guide-to-exploring-pcb-surface-finishhttps://jlcpcb.com/blog/pcb-gold-fingers-why-it-matters

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2024, 12:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on August 20, 2024, 03:35:16 amI didn't say I'm only looking for this information here. Their customer service - which of course I talked to - is non-technical (and what they were able to say tells me ENIG everywhere), and I also wrote to their engineering, which hasn't responded yet. I was asking here for peers' experience with this fab and others.I asked them exactly that - why make it an option - and I didn't get clear answers pointing to a different chemistry of process, other than it adds chamfering to the fingers.But nothing in the JLCPCB literature indicates they're doing hard gold (did you get a different understanding from it?) . On the contrary. They're making it sound prohibitive in cost. Also, adding the "gold fingers" option changes the cost of a given board by $0. ENIG is required for "GF" and that's what's adding cost to the boards.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2024, 12:40:37 pm
content: I got some responses from engineering, and they've been pretty forthcoming to my itemized questions. I am pretty good with the result.There's no additional immersion or other processing of the fingers. In short, no electroplating or anything more sophisticated.ENIG of a certain thickness (the finish of the rest of the board) applies. JLCPB has 1U and 2U available (latter is twice the thickness of the gold layer).Given the cost of hard gold plating on the fingers (which some fabs offer, but I am left to wonder of the actual quality of the output - is the actual thickness as claimed? Will electroplating actually be used?), I decided to use 2U ENIG, 30 degrees chamfer, and call it a day. I think this will be completely adequate.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2024, 09:35:13 pm
content: I sure wish OSHPark offered more solder mask colors than purple. I still might try them out but for some of the stuff I'm doing (lighting in particular) soldermask color matters.

author: xbst_
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2024, 12:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: meshtron on August 23, 2024, 09:35:13 pmThey do clear soldermask with black FR4 too. You can see the copper traces on a black background, it looks amazing. But no bulk prices and only 2L.I had some QC issues with them, they drilled a big hole in a random spot, near the edge so it also broke there, on roughly 3/4 of my last order. To be fair that was the only order they messed up, but out of a small sample size, and it was bad enough that they should've caught it in QC.

author: Rax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2024, 03:03:06 am
content: Quote from: xbst_ on August 25, 2024, 12:16:44 pmI love OSHPark for quick prototyping of small boards (in particular smd), and always found their quality exemplary. But the range of options is extremely underwhelming vs what the fabs overseas offer. Particularly if you're looking for particular options (card edge stuff, certain thickness and technology gold, etc.), none of it can be found at OSHPark. I guess they cater for a very specific diy community, which part of what I personally do fits perfectly into.Quote from: xbst_ on August 25, 2024, 12:16:44 pmInteresting to hear, I never had even an inkling of issues with them. I always found their product excellent, but that's my relatively small statistical sample.

author: Accu-Sembly
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 11:44:19 pm
content: Are you ordering bare boards or getting assembly too?