Any good BlackPill style small STM32 boards out there? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rf-fil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2024, 11:21:44 pm
content: The eBay BlackPill boards are often faulty or fake - it's actually a waste of time and money. The same design from more reputable suppliers is pricy. I'm OK to use a Nucleo board, but sometimes the small form factor like the BlackPill is super useful. It'd be great if there was a cheap (MCU cost + small PCB cost + reasonable mark-up) small form factor PCB. Nowadays, I'd prefer a STM32G4 or H7.. Is there anything like that out there? Google failed me this time.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2024, 01:12:17 am
content: You didn't see this one?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/blackpill-stm32g431cbu6-170-mhz-32k-ram-128k-rom-12-bit-adc-and-dac/Should be all over aliexpress.

author: shtirka
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2024, 07:38:05 am
content: Quote from: rf-fil on June 27, 2024, 11:21:44 pmHelloIf you're looking for Blackill style board, then I recommend the STM32F446 board variant fromhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006051651136.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21SEK%21SEK%2063.86%21SEK%2063.86%21%21%2142.59%2142.59%21%402103872a17195600715194893ebdf8%2112000035503740771%21sh%21SE%21891317837%21&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007524327660.1005006051651136. If on the other hand you're after an H7 board, I recommend this boardhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005872938104.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21SEK%21SEK%20235.57%21SEK%20235.57%21%21%21157.10%21157.10%21%40211b61a417195598560904430e8ae0%2112000034654506459%21sh%21SE%21891317837%21&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007524327660.1005005872938104from the same guys - it is however a little bigger than the Blackpill, to accomodate for the screen and the camera.Ilya

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2024, 02:33:20 pm
content: What about the Nucleo boards from ST itself?

author: GromBeestje
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2024, 08:31:51 pm
content: If you are looking for a Black Pill, I'd recommend buying them from the WeAct Studio Official Store at AliExpress, As WeAct Studio is the designer of those boards, their official store will have the real deal. They do have H7 and G4 boards as well.https://weactstudio.nl.aliexpress.com/store/910567080/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2024, 08:46:24 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 28, 2024, 02:33:20 pmToo big.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 01:25:12 am
content: I also like the form factor of the Blue / Black pills much more then the Nucleo boards. With the Nucleo boards, you also buy a programmer with each board, which is a bit of a waste and makes them more expensive than needed.I also like WeAct. They even have some GIT repositories with a bit of information. I may even be tempted to buy some Blue pills from them. In general, the Blue pills are broken and I don't buy them because you simply don't know which processor (all with their own peculiarities, different ID's Errata's etc) and it's just not worth it wasting time on them.With WeAct however, you can buy the Blue Pill in different variants. CH32 and GD32 for "cheap", and STM32 for around EUR3.5, which is the same price as from before all the fakes started turning up.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 05:34:24 am
content: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006458983136.html

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 10:23:21 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 28, 2024, 08:46:24 pmHow so? The Nucleo-32 boards are slightlysmallerthan a Blue/Black Pill.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 10:27:28 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on June 29, 2024, 01:25:12 amThe Nucleo-32 boards are slightlysmallerthan a Blue/Black Pill. They have the same header spacing, which makes me suspect one is based on the other, though I don’t know whether Blue Pill or Nucleo-32 came first.All the Nucleo-32 boards cost $10 on DigiKey, which seems very reasonable to me given that they include the programmer/debugger and are guaranteed to be made with genuine ST parts, no knockoffs.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 09:55:20 pm
content: Yes, the Nucleo boards come in 32, 64 and 144 variants depending on the MCU.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2024, 10:05:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 29, 2024, 10:27:28 amcould also "abuse" something like this:https://www.digikey.dk/da/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/STLINK-V3MODS/11610874I think there's a thread here with the reverse engineered pinout

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2024, 08:20:07 am
content: At the moment I am mostly saturated by the boards I have already bought from WeAct and the programmers (6 or more of the small ST-Link V2 clones with an aluminum housing) that I bought over the years (I also have 15+ Blue pills from before they got too cheap and had fake chips).If I was to start now, I would indeed very likely buy some Nucleo-32 boards. They are a bit more expensive then the Chinese boards, but the difference is not insurmountable. The boards cost just over EUR10, which is still in the order of lunch money. Another advantage of these Nucleo-32 boards is that they are explicitly pin compatible with arduino nano. So it seems you can exchange them in your project, (for example when Flash runs out or you need more MHz or peripherals).https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/stm32-nucleo-boards.htmlAlso, I just did a download and import of the altium project found below into KiCad:https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/nucleo-g431kb.html#cad-resourcesAlso, the STM32G431 seems to be one of the brightest jewels in the STM family for hobbyists. It is quite affordable and it has a quite big set of peripherals. It's also among the later models, and the crud / bugs / errata's from the old STM32F103 has been left behind. If you don't want to get confused by the (quite ridiculous) thousands of "different" models that ST sells. then it is a good starting point. Just buy a bunch of them, and put them in all your projects. It's giant overkill for a lot of projects, but it's price is low enough to not really matter. It's small enough for small projects, and it's powerful enough that you don't have to switch to another processor if your projects start growing. Just keeping with this processor for a few years or so cuts down on the choices you have to make when getting started. When you've gained some experience, it's perfectly fine to take a more nuanced approach. For beginners having to remember which processor has which peripherals becomes a nuisance if you have many processors.I have not matched Schematic with PCB yet (That is still a separate step). but import of schematic and the PCB works. These Nucleo boards are also 4-layer PCB's, and this is another reason why it's worth spending a bit more on them.STLINK-V3MODS is another product I would buy if I was to start now. As I have already stated I already bought a bunch of Chinese ST-Link V2 clones and as long as they keep working I have not much reason to buy yet more programmers. It's also cheap enough to "abuse" as a development board in itself. I have not looked about which processor is on it, and it may also be a decent start to standardize on. (See remarks about G431 above).There are a few things that I do not like about ST. First the legal mumbo jumbo in their licensing. If I interpret that well, they attempt to reserve the right to force you to destroy anything you get from them, whenever they have a whim to say so. I'm not a lawyer, but I very much doubt this is much more then complete nonsence in the EU, but it's definitely not Open Sourced or centered around the users rights friendliness. But it's also not the worst I have seen.https://www.st.com/oplaSome software rantsAnother part I am having difficulty with is the ST Cube IDE stuff. It "mostly works", but I am afraid that if some obscure setting somewhere falls over, you can spend days trying to figure out what it was. I have worked with some "bare metal" projects, which use just GCC and even write a linker script from scratch, but that is definitely not the way to go with STM32. Such tutorials can help to give you a better understanding of how the processors work. Even working with just the header files (with register names and such) is not advisable for STM32. The IC's are too complex and you have to do a lot of things in the right order to get things going. I also did some HAL projects, and I completely despise that. It's a complete fuckup in which you have to jump around though 6 layers of indirection just to find out that functions do absolutely nothing.LL seem to be quite usable though. Especially if you already have some experience with register level programming of 8-bitters. LL is mostly a minimal interface to map software functions to the hardware. It's easy to understand what it does and how it works. I have tinkered around with it for a little bit (a few evenings) to port some code that I had written for an ATmega 8 (and ATMega328) and it looks doable to write some LL level functions so software libraries can be compatible with both AVR and STM32. (I am not an "arduino" guy, I very much dislike it because the platform teaches bad practices to beginners).I like the ideals of LibOpenMC3 but unfortunately this project has been limping along for quite a lot of years. If firmware interoperability / portability between uC's from different vendors is important to you, it may still be worth looking into, but for myself, I think I'll focus on LL.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2024, 08:03:57 pm
content: I highly recommend WeAct from Aliexpress. They design good quality modules and open source them on github.https://weactstudio.aliexpress.com/store/1101545918/pages/all-items.htmlI used several of their products with good results, for examplehttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801269871873.html(with an STLINK V2 debugger and platformio on Visual Studio Code).

author: mark03
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 12:19:51 am
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on June 30, 2024, 08:20:07 amI had a client once insist on using the LL calls for an STM32 project, and it still baffles me. As far as I can tell, LL is just an obfuscation layer between the registers and the code. You seem to need about the same number of lines to get things done, but you sort-of lose the direct linkage with the Reference Manual which makes programming directly at the register level so straightforward. With direct register access, I don't need to look anything up if the RM is open on one screen, because all of the CMSIS identifiers track the register names and bit-field names in the RM.Agree about the HAL, though. It would take take a lot of work and some good programmers to maintain a "good" interface at that high level, and even so a lot of people would still be unhappy with it. ST has invested neither the good programmers nor the time, so...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 01:30:23 am
content: Well, even the LL abstracts a bit so that it makes porting to a different series of STM32 easier. Usually. Sometimes. That's the point. Now, your call of course.But if even if the HAL or LL are not that good, well, many customers just expect something like that. If vendors only provided a basic set of header files with register definitions, I think that would put off many potential customers. Heck, the number of them who even use CubeMX to generate code (which is not needed to use the HAL, btw, but just shows that many developers want something quick to use) is high, you'd be surprised.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 10:25:28 am
content: The goal of LL is to add an light weight abstraction layer. The goal of it is to mapfunctionalitytohardware registersIt's not for reducing the amount of code, but for making it more robust and portable. I think I've seen some workarounds implemented in LL to circumvent silicon bugs.If you only want to do direct register programming, then there is nothing from stopping you, (and the LL also does not get in your way) Things like programming the clock frequency PLL's, dividers and switch settings, combined with waiting for the PLL to stabilize before switching to the new clock frequency is an example of a task that is a nuisance to do if you want to do direct register programming.One of my more important projects is a network stack for Uart over RS485. It has packet assembly, byte counting, checksum calculation and verification, and of course also some UART functions and ISR's. This library has been running on AVR's for 20+ years. As an experiment I tried to port this to STM32 and with help of LL (and writing some LL functions for the AVR myself) this library can be made to run both on AVR's and STM32, so I have only one code base to maintain for this library.

author: lbthomsen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2024, 06:01:16 pm
content: I have bought multiple black pill (stm32f411) from Aliexpress and I have not had any issues so far. I _know_ most - it not all - stm32f103 based blue pill boards have fake chips and endless problems. But I don't think stm32f411 clones exist - yet.

author: rf-fil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 04:46:51 am
content: Btw, the STM32G4 boards from WeAct work pretty well - no issues observed.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 05:04:55 am
content: This one works pretty well:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005303669884.htmlThe only con is that its headers has 2 rows, so it may be problematic to use all signals on a breadboard

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 07:41:12 pm
content: Dual pinrows ....But i'we been eyeballing this for a while.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007502799023.html?

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 09:50:31 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on September 09, 2024, 07:41:12 pmaliexpress is weird, first time I clicked the link it was $0.99 max one per buyer, second time I clicked it is $9.99 no limit

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:11:02 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 09, 2024, 09:50:31 pmIt's not "weird", it's "marketing", and it's bloody annoying. I am often sniffing around to find a decent deal for 10 pieces of some gadget, and all you find is those "one per buyer" deals.It's also quite common that if you go through on such a deal and want to checkout / pay for it, that the price suddenly changes. Sometimes I then just don't buy the thing (which is a waste of time) sometimes I do buy it, but give negative feedback just because of the silly scam. We all know aliexpress sells cheap stuff, but they're really going too far lately.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 03:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 09, 2024, 09:50:31 pmI see price cut if I am logged out and it disappears when I log in. I think it's a special discount for new users.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 05:39:06 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 10, 2024, 03:39:06 pmThey do that. Also, prices shown by google are often times these lower prices.But there will be a sale in about 5 hours. There are genuine deals usually on these sales. For stuff that's more expensive, there are coupon codes.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:11:44 pm
content: Yes you just need to login to see the real prices. Its not that hard, but can be annoying.You can also use something like pricearchive:https://www.pricearchive.org/aliexpress.com/item/1005007502799023

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:24:39 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on September 09, 2024, 09:50:31 pm0.99 USD is the promotional price for a first purchase of a new buyer, who never used aliexpress before.You can buy even more expensive thing for 0.99 USD as a first purchase.But the second purchase will be at usual price.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:28:43 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on September 09, 2024, 07:41:12 pmhm, it looks even more interesting... higher speed and more RAM, also have ADC and DAC... but twice more expensive

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:29:37 pm
content: And 640KB ought to be enough for anybody!

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 10:55:07 pm
content: What is still missing to be happy is USB3 support... USB FS onlyBut it looks like nice and cheaper replacement for RP2350...

author: profdc9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 11:08:30 pm
content: I made a BlackPill type board you can have made yourselfhttps://github.com/profdc9/STM32F411surface

author: rthorntn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:44:47 am
content: Quote from: profdc9 on September 10, 2024, 11:08:30 pmThanks, is this a drop in replacement for a blue pill, same size & spacing (I need the bluepill for a Braids THT Eurorack PCB)?No problem putting a 128K CBT6 on there?