Help on finding an oscilloscope that can display zoomed traces when rolling - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bens
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 08:50:20 pm
content: We have six ancient LeCroy 9300 series scopes that we love for our neurophysiology research studies but are slowly dying. We are looking for replacement four channel scopes that allow us to display live scrolling traces simultaneously at a slow time base (e.g, 500 ms/div) and a zoomed version of the same channel at a faster time base (e.g. 10 ms/div) Our old LeCroy scopes have this function where both the acquired channel and the math/zoom channel continuously scroll across the screen, letting us see both slow changes and fast events in our live biological recordings. But the more modern Keysight or Siglent scopes we've tested don't seem to have this function. (The Siglent SDS800X HD displays a message saying that the zoom feature is not allowed in roll mode.)When I contacted LeCroy, they pointed me to extremely expensive scopes (HDO6000B and HDO4000A) that still have that capability but are well outside of our price range. LeCoy said that the "zoom" function only works after you stop continuous scrolling in their less expensive scopes.We are looking for help finding a more modern 4 channel scope that displays the acquired channel along with a zoomed version of that channel while continuously scrolling for less than $3k. The lowest bandwidth option should be fine for our biological signals though it would be great to have 10 or 12 bit ADCs and a large screen.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 09:08:51 pm
content: IDK of any packaged oscilloscopes that work that way, but an oscilloscope is probably not the best solution for your use case anyway. Some alternative methods would include using two separate instruments or a PC-based data acquisition system. Using an expensive high-bandwidth oscilloscope for this probably isn't the best solution, especially when you could have much better vertical resolution with other methods.How many channels, what voltage range and what bandwidth do you actually need? I'll assume your BW needs are very low considering your "fast" trace is 10ms/div. This can be done with a digitizing multimeter like the Keithley DMM6500 (16-bit @ 1M samples per second) or with a PC based scope like the Picoscope 4444 if you actually need 4 channels to use in this fashion. Displaying the traces exactly as you describe might not be a built-in feature, but since these both can download all the data to a PC in real time, you'd just have to set that up in software.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 09:39:24 pm
content: Quote from: bens on February 12, 2025, 08:50:20 pmAdd the Rigol DHO800 to that list.

author: mikes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 09:53:47 pm
content: What about feeding the same signals to two lower cost scopes?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 10:03:12 pm
content: Quote from: bens on February 12, 2025, 08:50:20 pmWelcome to the forum.Dedicated Roll mode = correctTimebase Zoom mode works in Auto Roll mode < can this meet your needs ?Just tested with SDS1104X HD, see screenshot.Can test other models if required.

author: bens
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 10:06:12 pm
content: Thanks for the suggestions. We need up to four channels and the BW requirements are minimal (50 kHz). We already acquire data in 4-8 sec duration episodes that are synced to the stimuli we apply using a PC-based 16-bit ADC system. Over the years it has been extremely helpful to have the LeCroy oscilloscope show us the data around the acquired episodes to determine if any slow drift occurred or if the fast events changed.We could use a second PC ADC system, or a Picoscope, to generate the continuous scrolling display on the computer display. But our PC is already running 8 or 10 other programs at the same time to control the laser scanning and CMOS imaging systems, micromanipulators, stimulus generators and such, each with their own GUI display. It has been helpful to off-load the work of displaying the continuous data stream to the oscilloscope, especially since these single neuron recordings are technically difficult to perform and might only last 10 or 15 minutes. Simply getting two inexpensive 4 channel scopes, each operating at a different time base, would solve the problem but not as elegantly as our current LeCroys where changes in vertical gain etc are coordinated on the slow and fast time base traces. Things also are a bit crowded in our equipment rack (attached a photo).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 10:14:22 pm
content: Quote from: bens on February 12, 2025, 10:06:12 pmAs you can see in the screenshot provided, the timebase zoom window has a separate tab where you would toggle to use one or the other and you can vertical zoom the timebase zoomed window to examine any part of the trace in great detail.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 10:42:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 12, 2025, 10:03:12 pmCan you tell me how to enter the "auto roll mode" on either an SDS1000X-E or SDS2000X+ model? Is there some setting that impedes this from happening on its own when you select a slow enough sweep rate?I may have misunderstood the OP's question as to exactly what they wanted to appear.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 11:40:06 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 12, 2025, 10:42:46 pmNo.At slow timebase settings Auto Roll mode becomes engaged automatically.Dedicated Roll mode behaves differently in what/how it displays of the capture buffer.QuoteDedicated Roll and timebase Zoom is what he is chasing.We all need test more models to find what he seeks.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 11:44:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 12, 2025, 11:40:06 pmOK, so I slow it down to 100ms/div and I don't see any rolling with either model. What exactly is auto-roll? How does it behave?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 11:48:11 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 12, 2025, 11:44:20 pmOne fills the display buffer before anything is shown on the screen, IIRC this is Dedicated Roll mode.Auto Roll OTOH shows a display while the buffer is being filled.You'll really notice the difference at slower timebase settings.Away from a DSO right now....

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 12:17:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 12, 2025, 11:48:11 pm100ms/div, starting with just dialing down the sweep rate, then pressing "ROLL" and then pressing it again.https://youtu.be/aa6HdLEH6zo

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:18:49 am
content: At this moment, from Siglent, "smallest" model that has this capability is SDS3000xHD.It can have Roll and Zoom at the same time.6000A can do it too.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:24:44 am
content: Because this has never occurred to me before, I have just tried it out on my cheap Hantek.In principle it does that, if I understand the problem correctly?Since it's limited to 4k mem. depth in roll mode, it's not particularly useful though.Time base is 5s -> 200ms zoomed in the attached screenshot.Just saying. This is definitely not an option for bens.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 05:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2025, 09:18:49 amThat's probably the perfect slide-in replacement for his old LeCroy. Just a bit over the $3k budget though.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 07:26:34 pm
content: Recently recycled an old LeCroy 9300 after the power supply failed. That's the second supply I've seen fail in one. They are old.Quote from: bdunham7 on February 13, 2025, 05:06:17 pmInteresting. Playing with one, it doesn't appear to support it. Guessing I am doing something wrong as I consider myself a noob to this scope.QuoteSeems to be limited to 50ms/div in zoom with 500 ms/div. Other thing I notice is it will greatly slow down data collection if you do anything, like move the mouse.Maybe a demo from the experts would be helpful for the OP.

author: FloBX
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 07:56:40 pm
content: Hi,ourMagnovasupports Roll-Mode in combination with very high zoom factors (currently up to 100000x at 500ms/div) as well. You can also change the zoom factor while running and stop to further investigate. See the attached screenshot as a quick "proof".Best regards,Florian(Batronix)

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:03:18 pm
content: Quote from: FloBX on February 13, 2025, 07:56:40 pmWhen do you anticipate these will be available in the US?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:03:22 pm
content: Quote from: FloBX on February 13, 2025, 07:56:40 pmI had stopped reading their thread long ago and was excited to see your post as the OP is in the USA. A quick lookQuotesame old song and dance.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:21:15 pm
content: Showing error with my SDS3034X when attempt to set it per OP's requirements.Also keep in mind, if you want to do this with more than one channel active, the Siglent will not allow you to display them in separate graphs.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 13, 2025, 08:21:15 pmSo it won't let you zoom in to less than 50ms/div, the same lower limit that applies to the roll mode in general? Or is it limiting you to 10X or something like that? Looking back at2N3055'spost, I see he has selected 2s/div and 200ms/div, not 500/10 as the OP stated.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 13, 2025, 08:30:56 pmTo my limited noobness, the zoom appears limited to 50ms independent from the sample rate. I would try the help, but it is in Chinese only.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:01:43 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 13, 2025, 08:21:15 pmThis shows dedicated Roll mode and zoom timebase.What does auto Roll mode allow ?Don't have SDS3kX HD to compare.....QuoteWhen another channel is active and selected zoom should be available for it and shown in another channel tab.SDS7000A allows for up to 9 windows of waveforms to be displayed.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:19:50 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 13, 2025, 09:01:43 pmIf it has an auto roll mode as you mention, I could not find it in the manual and do not know how to select it. You would need to provide more details.Display wise, they appear to overlay everything. Guessing OP would want them all separate, as that is what I would want....The two mid range LeCroy DSOs that LeCroy recommended were outside their price range. The SDS7000A is in that same ball park. Far outside their $3k budget.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:26:51 pm
content: While hunting for this auto roll mode you mention, I attempted to select roll using the mechanical button. I have to select it several times before it will take effect. The pulldown works every time. It almost looks like the mechanical switch is polled and the software misses my attempts to select it. Is this expected?Thinking of polling and UI problems, interesting side story. Remember my complaint about the encoder with the low end Arb not tracking? Being told to slow down, use the keypad..... Everything but fix the problem? A friend of mine has that same arb and was using it to run a test while we were on the phone. All of a sudden, he starts cursing out that encoder.Felt good to know I am not the only one.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 13, 2025, 09:19:50 pmAuto Roll mode is just that, you get indication of it working at slow timebase settings when the Acquiring message pops up.Pretty obvious to the observant.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 13, 2025, 09:35:39 pmIts not obvious to me but consider my noobness to the scope. If I set the timebase 1s/div, the scope will sit with a blank screen and after 10 seconds, then show the results. Changing to 2s/div results in the same effect for required 20 seconds to update. I would consider that a slow timebase. There is no roll like the OP is asking for. The only way I have found to enable it, is to manually select it.***10s/div, same effect.If I select Roll manually, then set the timebase to 2ms/div, the roll indicator turns off. As I start to dial down the timebase, once it reaches 50ms/div, the roll indicator turns on and it does begin to roll. I continue to decrease the timebase to 500ms/div. It appears no different than enabling the roll after I had set it originally. I then enable zoom and again am limited to 50ms/div. Guessing this is not what you expect but I am not seeing anything else. It could very well be obvious, but like saving a waveform to memory, it took some guidance to sort out that I needed to import, not save.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:48:19 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 13, 2025, 09:35:39 pmOK, if you look at the short video I linked a few posts back, is that "auto roll" in the beginning and at the end?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 09:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 13, 2025, 09:48:19 pmIsn't it obvious??!!

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:14:51 pm
content: Hello,when zooming in roll mode (SDS3000X HD), you can set a minimum of 50 ms/div.Best regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:29:42 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 13, 2025, 09:45:24 pmMy scope is loaded with fw.1.1.39, last published one.I simply selected roll mode, set 100ms/div and enable zoom.When you enable zoom, timebase and vertical knobs starts controlling zoom window.If you want to control timebase, just tap with your finger in top part of window to select master timebase/vdiv (let's call it physical timebase/vertical) and set those. Tap again in zoomed window and then vertical and timebase knobs will control zoomed part.Top window shows which part is selected and shown magnified in the bottom.Master timebase for Roll mode must be 50ms/div or slower, or scope reverts to normal triggered acquisition mode.If you have trouble with the keyboard, contact support. It reacts very fast to input and does not skip. If you have any problems, try keyboard test.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:37:28 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on February 13, 2025, 10:14:51 pmGood to know their wasn't some hidden feature I missed. I am curious with the same settings you show, if your unit also stumbles when moving the mouse and if your Roll button is also a bit hit and miss when trying to select it?I see you are trying to show the multiple zoomed channels. Exactly my point. You attempt use some offset and eat into the dynamic range. OP's old LeCroys will show all four traces in their own graph, no offsets and full dynamic range.That 7000 series that tautech mentions seems like a very good fit in my case as it seems to have similar features to what I am used to. It's just so overkill. I want one!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 13, 2025, 10:29:42 pmI think the issue here is that you cannot zoom in beyond 50ms/div. The OP wanted a 500ms/div timebase zoomed in to 10ms/div.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 10:53:45 pm
content: I did try a second scope. Similar effects with mouse movements causing the display to jitter. I think for the button presses, I just need to take a deep breath, act my age and slow down...My guess is OP is not going to like that graph overlay as well but we will see if they provide any further details about their requirements.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 11:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 13, 2025, 10:41:31 pmAha I missed that... Sorry.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 01:31:32 am
content: LeCroy 64xi vs Siglent SDS3034X HD Roll Mode Demo. While the LeCroy can do what OP asked, I would not recommend they try to replace their vintage, dying scopes with more vintage dying scopes. You can see the Siglent's display jitter when moving the mouse. Also how the LeCroy can display the normal and zoomed roll sweeps in individual graphs.That 7000 would like good on this desk....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 02:00:44 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 14, 2025, 01:31:32 amNow set 3000X HD sampling and mem depth to match the LeCroy....Direct comparisons should be apples vs apples.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 10:18:56 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 14, 2025, 02:00:44 amI believe he is referring to fact that scope slows down when both Roll and Zoom are active for a second or two when you are moving the mouse.Once you stop using mouse, it speeds up again.I did not notice that because I pretty much never use mouse on the scope.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 11:04:56 am
content: So if your budget is $3 x6 stations, and your functionality requirement is very specific ( assuming you don't also need them to be general purpose scopes)How about something like this from Red Pitayahttps://redpitaya.com/product/stemlab-125-14-4-input/With a cheap laptop ( or maybe Raspberry Pi/Nuc etc. ) , and a couple of $k of the budget to pay someone to write software for the exact display functionality to do what you need

author: bens
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 04:13:41 pm
content: Many thanks to everyone for checking for this function on their modern DSOs. I've written the .NET code that operates the two data acquisition systems we use on our rig computers. So one solution is to add another NI DAQ card to emulate the roll + zoom feature we love in our old LeCroy scopes. It sounds like this is the best way forward since we could make the GUI display expand vertically with the number of channels displayed. We haven't done this already because of the inertia of adding yet another subsystem that has to be installed and maintained in each rig. We would pay more than the $1.5k that the DAQ card + accessories would cost to have a dedicated, robust standalone DSO that has this function.Because our researchers have to do so many things very quickly when we have a short-lasting neuronal recording, we want to avoid getting a modern DSO that requires going deep into menus (or using a mouse) to use the zooming functions that were implemented so simply using the math channels in our current scopes. If we have to emulate our 30 year old LeCroy DSO, we would also make a small enclosure with some pushbutton switches and a rotary encoder to control the zooming function via a Labjack interface. All this is possible but not something we've been eager to jump into without checking to see what is available off the shelf.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 04:53:47 pm
content: on the siglent roll mode is one button on the front, and zoom is another button next to roll ... not complicated !

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 04:59:43 pm
content: I have a bottom end LabJack that I use a fair amount for random experiments. It's never had any problems. I would imagine going this route with your setup would make a lot of sense assuming you never need the higher bandwidth your old scopes can provide. Mine uses USB, but their higher end units offer Ethernet.Nice thing about coding it from scratch, you can make it as simple to use as you like..Quote from: tautech on February 14, 2025, 02:00:44 amWhile there are always going to be differences preventing a direct comparison of different products, I'll put something together for you later today showing similar setups.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 05:11:42 pm
content: Quote from: bens on February 14, 2025, 04:13:41 pmOne possible option that has been overlooked here would be the Tektronix MSO22/MSO24 scopes. These have the "stacked" display mode where traces are each in their own window (a very valuable feature that Siglent ought to implement IMO) and they do have a roll mode. The only remaining question would be if there is any limitation on zooming in on the roll mode display. I don't have one to check out, but I think a phone call to Tektronix would resolve this question fairly easily.

author: bens
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 05:41:31 pm
content: For the zoomed trace, we typically use 10 ms/div on the LeCroys. We might be able to get by with 20 ms/div but 50 ms/div is too slow for our signals. My read on the previous messages is that sweep speeds faster than 50 ms/div are not possible for the rolling zoom trace on the SDS3000X HD series scopes but there are other DSO options that will work if we can increase our budget to >$5k. Please correct me if I got this point wrong.We are very partial to our Labjack U3 boards and probably have at least 25 running now in various rigs. Also pretty old technology but they have been bulletproof in our hands and are easy to program. We keep looking for more modern alternatives that still cost around $100 but haven't found any that match the capabilities and robustness of the U3. Plus we often use the various tic modules that connect to it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 08:01:27 pm
content: I use the U3 HV. They wrote me once here offering to send me a higher end unit for a demo but they wanted it returned. Otherwise I would have taken them up on it. I've used that U3 strapped to my race bike to most recently control part of my spectrometer experiments. It covers the majority of my basic needs.Beyond your 500ms/div and 10ms/div zoom roll requirement any idea what you need for a sample rate, or memory depth? Does the sampling need to be synchronous?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 08:18:05 pm
content: I am just curious, 10ms/div means that a blip will fly over the screen in 100ms..That is quite fast.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 08:30:20 pm
content: Doubt they are affordable new and I haven't tested this exact functionality, but if you considered used equipment, look at Yokogawa's scopecorder series. They come out of their paper chart recorder lineage so likely support roll mode in a very flexible way, and know at least that they do support individual trace zoom modes.

author: bens
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 10:37:28 pm
content: Not sure how much neurophysiology people want to know... We use the fast sweep to monitor the size and shape of synaptic potentials, triangle-shaped event lasting 100-200 ms, that arrive in the brain cell we are recording from. Experiments are done today but I attached a picture from old PC-recorded data to show response shapes. Most of these events are evoked by our stimulus but there are few spontaneous events toward the end on some of the five repeated trials shown. These synaptic responses are the elemental way one brain cell talks to another cell. We need the fast (10-20 ms/div) zoom sweep to assay response amplitude and slope of the rising phase of these events to tell how well "connected" that particular cell is.Because this is biology, it would be a nightmare to try to use the automatic triggering and measuring functions in DSOs. We'd get tons of garbage along with our real synaptic responses and we would have to verify each event. This is what we do the day after the experiment on the episodes acquired with our PC DAQ system. Instead, we can get a rough idea of neural connectivity during the experiment by looking at how often we see different types of synaptic responses on the scrolling LeCroy display and then decide which synaptic circuits to probe.We don't need fancy ADCs or simultaneous sampling on the scrolling display--we have those features on the PC DAQ system we use to acquire episodes linked to our stimulation.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 11:17:27 pm
content: Still, I would have no idea how fast you actually need to sample at. Over that 100-200ms event, do you need a resolution of 1ms or 1ns?Quote from: tautech on February 14, 2025, 02:00:44 amVideo starts out showing the power up time of both scopes to when a trace is displayed. For this video, I am using my daily driver which has a SSD, faster CPU and additional RAM. But we are talking about a Windows XP based, 17 years old scope.Next I show both scopes with 2 channels with a 0.5ms/div roll mode. LeCroy zoom set to 10ms and Siglent set to 50ms/div. Both set to 1MS/s and 5MS. Various graph modes are shown with the LeCroy. Note the lack of any jitter with the LeCroy when compared with the Siglent. I show the Siglent with a long chirp to better show the problem.Next I show the internal help menus for both scopes. English vs Chinese. I have no idea how to get that Siglent to show english.Next I hammer on one of the LeCroy's buttons to show how fast the scope responds. I repeat this with the Siglent. It's slow enough it misses my attempts to press a button every so often. I am not too surprised by this after seeing how slow their Arb's encoder is polled..Finally, for a treat, I put some batteries into my reaction practice timer and have a go. This timer is used to simulate my race bike. A perfect time is 0.500 second. Negative is a red light, or too quick. The computer opponent is 0.530 or 30ms. Can the old fart take it on with zero practice??

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 01:45:47 am
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on February 14, 2025, 08:30:20 pmThat is another option. My (older) Yokogawa DL708 supports zoom in roll mode so I'd guess newer models do as well.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 03:24:52 pm
content: Until they provide the required sample rate, hard to say. I showed a MHz sample rate but maybe they only need kHz. That really would be an easy job to pull off with a dedicated low cost data acquisition system. They have an acquisition card plugged in their PC, which makes me wonder why they don't just plot that data the way they want to and ditch the scopes all together. Guessing there is a lot of legacy and old timers clinging to their old scopes that they trust..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2025, 03:38:33 pm
content: Special acquisition units for neurophysiology exist for a long time. I have used these for a project about 2 decades ago; back then it already plugged into a USB port. These units also provide the necessary amplification and safety isolation. There has to be more to the requirements that an oscilloscope is deemed a more suitable solution. Perhaps getting the software part going is the obstacle and a box which works off-the-shelve is a better solution all things considered. Real (made & designed by) Lecroy scopes have a lot going for them in terms of math and signal analysis which is logical if you keep in mind that Lecroy originates from making data acquisition systems for research & academic purposes.

author: Odd-Job
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 12:56:50 am
content: Why not repair what you have rather than replace?If they are still functional but becoming a bit unreliable now is the time to get your maintenance department on the job, especially if you have six units, probably use 2 or 4 at a time, max? If the have spent most of their life turned on, running and monitoring rather than on off on off on off all day they are inherently more base 'burnt-in' and therefore reliable.These are basically a late 90's-2000's monochrome desktop computer running a dedicated OS with manufactures in-house I/O's Software and Hardware.Schematics and service manual freely available online, and a brief search tells me the first on TO-DO list is treat it like an XT or AT motherboard/UNIT. Replace BIOS/LOGIC Back Up Battery, then service Switching Power Supply, as it is a pretty standard generic unit made in TAIWAN, so REPLACE ALL CAPACITORS, check ALL POWER RESISTORS, replace ALL HEATSINK COMPOUND.A competent Tech with parts at hand should be able to do 1 a day in MHLO including a de-dusting and clean.If your institution is not open to my suggestion, I will take them off you hands for free as long as you pay for FedEx freight to me, personally in Australia.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 07:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 13, 2025, 09:01:43 pmI would like to see anyone who has access to one of these, please turn on all four channels. Now display each channel on it's own unique graph. It sounds like from Tautechs couple of posts, they support this, like my LeCroy DSOs. However, reading the users manual for the Siglent, it appears this is not supported. That would be a major miss if the Siglent restricts what can be displayed in these windows.I am expecting it to work something like I show with the LeCroy in that video. Turn on all the traces, select the number of windows and the scope will automatically bring them up.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 07:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 19, 2025, 07:12:24 pmImages on the US website show 2 channels in use with Math operations on both displayed in 4 windows.https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds7000a-digital-storage-oscilloscope/I grabbed a screenshot from one when at HQ last year:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg5605511/#msg5605511

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 07:34:19 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 19, 2025, 07:18:35 pmPretty much what the manual suggests but not what I want to see. Just show me a simple time domain for each trace in four separate windows. It looks like it can't do this which would be hard to believe.Also for kicks, set the 7000 with 2 channels with a 0.5ms/div roll mode, zoom set to 10ms, 1MS/s and 5MS. Can you even set the zoom below 100ms??

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 08:14:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 19, 2025, 07:34:19 pmJust quickly:First window is master that always shows all. Other 4 windows are 1 channel each...Second 2 s/div timebase, Roll, Zoom 10 ms

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2025, 10:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 19, 2025, 08:14:25 pmI forget the # of window choices....Is it 1, 2, 4, 6 and 9 ?Found in the manual in 36.7. Window Layout Setting P291https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDS7000A_UserManual_EN01A.pdfautomatic, 2x1, 4x1, 1x2, 2x2, 4x2 and 3x3.The Multiple Displays Setting > Extend is novel, allowing an external monitor as an extension of the scopes display and to display other waveforms not shown on the scopes display.....Tempting to get one to explore all these features.......

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 01:53:08 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 19, 2025, 08:14:25 pmIt looks like depending on the mode you use, the first window may or may not have all the channels displayed. It doesn't appears its as simple as a button push.Looks like setting the time/div, sample rate, memory depth is not easily accessible. Is there a reason you chose to show different settings for the normal and zoomed in timebase? Can't the scope show 500ms/10ms with a 1MS/s sample rate and 5MS depth?Would you mind making a quick video showing all the key presses to set it up?My concern is that the firmware doesn't appear polished or well thought out and may require several keystrokes to set it up.I am also curious about their PC software interface. Could you try doing the same, say 4 channels with roll/zoom on 8 graphs with the PC interface? I wonder just how capable it is. Looking at their documentation for it, a lot of it is in Chinese. I am also curious about the USB connector on the rear with what appears to be a network symbol. I am guessing you can use this port to interface with the PC but looking at the manual for their software, it only appears to support Ethernet. Could you confirm?I would really have liked to see a detailed review of this scope.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 03:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 01:53:08 pmMaybe I misunderstood. First image is 4 channels in normal mode. Second one is 2 ch in Roll mode... But that is me being too literal..I'm not sure about video. But I will tell you, it is not as easy to setup and manage multi window layout as I would like. It is not bad, but could be better. They obviously could not blatantly copy LeCroy way of doing it, and what they came up with is not as polished, yet. They are working on it though. It is actively in development, improvements and new features alike. I cannot share details. Sorry.I am afraid I cannot help much with PC software, I installed it, quickly tried it works, but did not test it at all. Too little time for everything. I don't know if PC software supports USB, sorry, tried only with Ethernet.On the back side of scope there is T&M Device type USB to connect to PC. You can use it as a normal VISA connection.On the left side are Host USB connectors on PC motherboard.Detailed review would be, like, a month of work... I am afraid I won't be making one soon.If there is something more targeted you would like to see, I can test or explain few things here and there. Cannot promise much more than that. You can send me PM if you like.Best,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 03:37:19 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 01:53:08 pmThe webserver will be very similar to the SDS3000X HD you are using.QuoteUSB Device.For P&P connection to a standalone Siglent AWG for Bode plot.Have you tried USB connection with your ARB and Bode plot ?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 04:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 20, 2025, 03:19:47 pmTautech had asked for an apples to apples comparison using the roll/zoom which I demonstrated here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5818377/#msg5818377Again per the OP request, I stayed with the 500ms/10ms normal/zoom with roll. The 3000 was limited to 50ms on the zoom, which you did not show in your first post. I am asking for these same settings on the 7000. Apples to apples.The first screen shot was fine. It shows the problem. Why waste all the screen area? Rather show one graph per channel, but it seems you can't.In that video I show how easy it is to change the windowed setup with the LeCroy. I would like to see how difficult it is with the 7000.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 20, 2025, 03:19:47 pmThat's too bad they have you under what seems like an NDA. As a potential customer, I am expecting an open book when it comes to their roadmap.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 20, 2025, 03:19:47 pmI would like to keep the discussions in the open forums so others can take advantage of the dialog. That quick video, while hardly a review, at least demos the basic problems with the 3000's UI causing the data collection to jitter and the limited zoom range. Took maybe a half hour.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 05:30:51 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 20, 2025, 03:37:19 pmI posted about it here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-a-replacement-general-purpose-oscilloscope-for-home-use/msg5654881/#msg5654881

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 05:37:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 04:27:45 pmI am not going to discuss what is not public. That is all. If Siglent wants to publicly speak of their roadmap it is theirs prerogative. I do have understanding that you do not always want to open your cards to competition or "make promises".There is always an option that you contact Siglent NA and discuss with them what you like to know.I don't work for them. If I don't like something I will say it. But having some knowledge about process, I have appreciation how it is not easy to please everybody.I did not take into consideration of what Tautech asked for. I don't follow every conversation or remember every posted thing. I just did something that I thought it was what you asked for, a representative example of a sort. I will try to look into details later and try to do it "apples to apples" as you say.As for how easy it is, it is actually very easy. You enable channels, select one of multi window grid presets and then you drag a channel from status line to window of your choice. If you do that right it is fine. What is not optimal is that after the fact, you cannot easily rearrange the stuff. You cannot have any possible combination either. There are limits what you can do. Like preset grid. You can maximize individual windows to full screen and move them around manually though. But you cannot resize them freely.In regard to this multi window layout, I am a bit spoiled by Picoscope, where you can have any number of windows with any number of channels, math and physical, X-Y plots ......But that is a PC application, and it is all rendered in software and speed is not the same as on physical scope...I guess there must be some compromises.As for open discussion, that is my choice too. I suggested that I would not mind if you would ask some detail over PM if you want to, that is all.There is always an option that you contact Siglent NA and discuss with them what you like to know.Best,

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 05:41:51 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 05:30:51 pmType B USB connector in the back is definitely not for AWG control.It is USB 2.0 Device (USBTMC) port where you connect your PC to control the scope.USB ports on the front and on the left side are where you connect other devices so scope can control them.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 05:53:10 pm
content: QuoteTime blurs my memory.... I am old enough to member the spreadsheet and word processing keyboard stroke patent wars. As an end user, I would want them all to work the same. I remember Richard Stallman was fighting to prevent companies from locking down the UI. He argued the typewriter as such an example. Imagine if they all had different key positions.After seeing how well UNI-T copied the Fluke 289 UI with their 181A, IMO this was a good thing. It made the 181A very easy to drive as I was familiar with the Fluke. They added a few improvements as well.If Siglent flat out copied how some of these features work with the LeCroy, as an end user, I would have no problem with it.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 20, 2025, 05:41:51 pmThat's interesting as it doesn't appear their SigScopeLab software supports USB, only Ethernet.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 06:49:36 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 05:53:10 pmAs I am sure you know, these two companies have long and prosperous collaboration.And unlike Rigol /Keysight story, it seems they both respect their partners and are acting accordingly in good faith..

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 07:15:52 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 20, 2025, 06:49:36 pmI am not sure if you can patent something like a scope's UI but if Teledyne and Siglent are in bed with one another, all the more reason to have a standard UI.Do you have to do the drag drop to select what graphs are assigned to which channels? Can you do this through the keys? Software?Can you run a jitter analysis on more than one channel at a time? When running a jitter analysis, do you still have access to all of the other measurements?Also, I am curious if you have access to prereleased firmware? Or, are you just running their latest release?From what I can tell, the 7000 uses a standard BNC. They don't appear to offer SMA adapters. Are you just using standard adapters for this? Does the scope have a way to account for their errors?If you want to measure rise time, they appear to have a 90/10 preset. For 80/20 you have an option to change the threshold. When you do this, does the measurement readout display the threshold you selected? Say you want to use the screen shot for your report, is all the information there?While it appears to have similar histograms as the LeCroy, I don't see where they support 3-D trending or waterfall curves like LeCroy. Is there a way to do this internal to the scope?I wonder if they have any kind of auto tracking. Say you trigger on the rising edge of CH1 but show the rising edge of CH2 which is delayed from CH1. If there is drift to this delay, does the scope have a way to track it and keep it centered? More so, can the trigger combine events from more than one channel. For example, trigger on the first rising edge of CH2 after the first rising edge of CH1?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 08:52:52 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 07:15:52 pmThank you for logical and clear division into topics. I numerated them so I can go step by step.1. I have no opinion on this, nor have any insight in what are details of their relationship. From some conversations I have learned it is very professional and respectful bilaterally.2. Yes, drag and drop. As I said it is not very elaborate at this moment.3. No you cannot. Jitter analysis is an operational mode, hardware assisted at that.4. Sometimes, to some.5. Yes, standard BNC. You get SMA adapters with Ethernet Testing Kit. At this moment there is no generalized user controlled deembedding.6. No it does not show. That is a good suggestion. Will report as enhancement for whole platform.7. No 3D or waterfall plots at this time.8. No auto tracking or auto adapt in a manner you asked. At this time I think triggers are same as on your 3000xHD. So there is pattern and qualified trigger that can do what you asked.Hope this helps.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 09:13:12 pm
content: Thanks for the information. The picture is slowly coming into focus.9. If you are using the measurements and they are all set to say use CH1 as your source. Now you want to change them to use CH2. Do you have to recreate every measurement or is there a way to easily change the source?10. For your scope, they show a typical rise time of 116ps and < 125ps. Using the bandwidth = 0.35/tr, we get 3.0GHz. They claim a BW of 4GHz (-3dB). I am curious if you have measured your scopes transition and BW and how it compared with the datasheet?11. Concerning BW, the datasheet has a note 1 where they talk about having the Enhanced Bandwidth = On and Type = Best Flatness. I search for these terms in the manual and found nothing. Could you explain this in more detail?On #4 above, I am still not sure if you are currently using the latest released firmware. I want to know if the results of tests you run reflect what others have access to.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 09:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 20, 2025, 09:13:12 pmHehe, thanks for numbers...9. Ergonomics of measurements is exactly the same as on your 3000xHD. Only diff is you can have more of them in advanced mode with stats (9 to be exact)10. Front end AA filters have sharper cutoff than that. For 4GHz version BW is some 4,3 GHz -3dB AFAIK.11. I don't know. This might apply only to 6GHz version. I will check.Best,

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 02:35:20 pm
content: 10. Do you have a way to verify the bandwidth? Can you plot it?12. Does the 7000 provide a means to derive the sampling clock from an external source? It appears to support a standard 10MHz reference, but no mention of synchronizing the sampling clock.13. More just a general question. I am curious how you feel about the over all mechanical construction of the 7000. That 3000 appears to be very solid compared to my LeCroy 64xi. I would expect the LeCroy to have been a rugged warrior but instead is a dainty princess that hasn't aged well.Also, just a reminder, I would still like to see you run through that simple zoomed roll test using the exact same settings as 3000 (and 10ms zoom or what ever the limit is).Thanks again for answering my noob questions. This really helps.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 03:45:04 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 21, 2025, 02:35:20 pmHi.10. No, I don't have leveled siggen to 5-6GHz that would be needed for that.12. There is 10MHz IN/OUT. It can have internal OCXO. AFAIK 10 MHz IN (± some reserve) it is , no other frequencies are supported. Internal clocks are PLL-ed to 10MHz in. I don't think that external 10MHz can be directly edge synchronized to sampling clock. I might be wrong though. Would need to check.13. It feels sturdy enough. Front panel is made from same type of plastic as 3000xHD that feels good quality, robust. It does not look like brittle type. Not an expert for plastic, can't say what type it is. There is robust metal subframe inside that actually holds it together. Back cover is just there for the looks, bears no structural loads. Handle is attached directly to metal subframe. And for the enjoyment of EEVBLOG handle aficionados, handle is made from metal...Thank you for the reminder, there is weekend coming up, so I will try to arrange some images.Glad to help, if and when I can.And noob you are not.Quite the opposite, thank you for direct, concise and precise questions....Best,

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 04:32:17 pm
content: 10. No problem on the verification.14. 7000 has the ability to measure THD. I can not seem to find any specs for the scope's THD in the manual or datasheet. Have you measured this? If so, can you provide the setup and results?15. I have not found any mention of recovery times. Have you ran any tests to see the effect of over driving the front end? Does it recover within the full 12-bits within a clock cycle or something, so good that there is no concern?16. Do you use the scope in a high noise environment? I see they claim IEC 61000, 10V/m up to 1GHz and 3V/m to 2GHz. They don't provide any sort of test report and I wonder how the scope actually performs with these tests? Does it just stay running, or does it have any effects on the scopes ability to measure? I think I have shown photos of me having to get out the aluminum foil for one scope to be able to use it at 10V/m. Any input on this would be helpful.17. I have never used a scope like this for X-Y plotting of the music/graphics. After seeing how fast that 3000 could update, I wonder if you see similar performance with the 7000? From an actual use case, I'm not sure I would care, or what it would even tell me. More just curious.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 06:36:17 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 21, 2025, 04:32:17 pmJoe,14. Do you mean SDS7000A has THD measurement? Only place I know there is THD measurement is in the Power analysis App. No I did not measure it. To measure THD I would need to use markers in FFT. It would be first 7 harmonics.15. I use it mostly with active probes and try to keep everything on screen. I didn't test it on 7000A16. I make it a point for my lab to EMC quiet. I didn't test it in high EMC noise environment. I will see if I can get some data on this. No promises...17. Yeah I can try. I did not try because, like you I don't have much use for it... I did try with 3000xHD, like you, an there it works quite well. Will let you know...Best,Siniša

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 07:34:40 pm
content: 14. I assumed that from pg. 194 of the user manual where they talk about the FFT and the ability to auto place the markers on the harmonics, it would calculate the THD. So I thought, I wonder what the scope's TDH was spec'ed to, or how low it could measure, but wasn't able to find any details about it. They spec the noise floor, which is good enough.16. Would be very interesting to see. Every so often I end up dragging equipment into the chamber. This would be a big undertaking, but if your company has a chamber and setup to run these tests, it would be interesting to run a sweep. We are fully automated for rotation, H/V axis.... Receiver is realtime, so running a sweep wouldn't require too much chamber time.The table is fairly large and not very smooth. Manual claims the scope comes with 250 GB SSD or better, so I wouldn't expect any problems with vibration.17. Curious if you purchased the arb and digital accessories with yours and if so, how do you like them? Thinking about a high performance scope, I guess I wasn't envisioning using it for bode plots or a logic analyzer. It looks like the arb was limited to 50MHz. I can't see using a 4GHz scope to do bode plots to 50MHz..... Still, maybe it add some additional benefit. What's your opinion? I assume they support an external generator like the 3000. Maybe it is unlimited.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 08:06:06 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 21, 2025, 07:34:40 pmJoe,16. I have a small company. I wish I had chamber in house at my disposal. Yes it would be interesting to see.. I don't expect the level of vibration from table would be a problem.17. AWG is internal to scope. It is 50 MHz max, yes. Scope will control any Siglent AWG for bode plots. AFAIK max for Bode is 120MHz, even with AWG that goes higher. Digital probe is same as one for 3000xHD, 6000A and 2000xHD. It is good quality and works fine.Best,

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 08:20:59 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 21, 2025, 08:06:06 pmSPL2016 is used with several additional models also.Basically from SDS2000X Plus and up.It can be DIY'ed but the 10 way micro coax ribbon cable it uses if difficult to source in small lengths.Thread about it on the forum.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 09:05:53 pm
content: 18. Does the 7000 support differential signalling? What kind of probing is offered? MICTOR? Connectorless? Similar to my thought of a 50MHz arb on a 4GHz DSO, would I ever see a need to use it as a simple 16 channel, single ended logic analyzer. I have never thought about it. Have you ever used it?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 09:16:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 21, 2025, 09:05:53 pmI had bought the original SPL2016 for my SDS3104X HD and had already used it a few times.Once with an older logic circuit with umpteen 4000 ICs, once to monitor an 8-bit bus, in both cases the purchase had already paid off.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 09:42:53 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 21, 2025, 09:16:25 pmThat's kind of my point. We have mixed-mode scopes that are lower end. I fully can see the 3000 supporting such a feature. Maybe others consider the 7000 a more general purpose instrument than I am. Once you start getting into more specialized equipment, it seems like an odd combination.Of course, you don't have to use it, but if you are, the question is how capable is the feature? Does it match the performance of a 4 or 6GHz DSO, or is it an HFE socket on a cheap handheld meter?I have a cheapo logic analyzer somewhere that was damaged by a software developer working on some micro project that was riding on the AC mains. They didn't understand the basics. Would rather them blow a 3000 than the 7000 series.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 10:12:24 pm
content: I can fully understand that.You don't buy a 4Ghz (now there is an 8Ghz model) scope to then perform such measurements.Look at the accessories on this page, including test fixtures, you're more likely to do that with a scope like that.https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7604A-H12.htmlI therefore consider the LA option and the AWG option to be a kind of “appendix”; it somehow slipped into the design.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 10:50:57 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 21, 2025, 10:12:24 pmYour link shows only 6. Where did you see they offer an 8?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 11:01:00 pm
content: Sorry,Currently it is available up to 6GHz here, but 8GHz has been announced on the Chinese website.https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 11:13:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 21, 2025, 09:42:53 pmSPL2016 specs:https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2025/02/Logic_Probe_DataSheet_EN02A.pdf

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 05:27:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 21, 2025, 11:13:27 pmIf you are going to tack a LA onto your flagship product, why not up your game with advanced probing options, diff inputs, software that rivals the best LAs available today.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 06:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 22, 2025, 05:27:41 pmSome reasonably new active probes and accessories developed for 7000A and other models with active probe support:https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/differential-probe/sap5000d/https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/active-probes/https://siglentna.com/products/accessories/probes/scp5000-current-probes/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 07:41:07 pm
content: I am expecting probing options like these:https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-06707/data-sheets/5968-4632.pdfI'm not buying a 4G+ DSO to work on my Arduino. Sure, simple single ended probing with some clips can be very useful. For these projects, you could purchase a cheap LA and be far better off.Very old photo of such a home project. The HP logic analyzer is the cable going off to the left. Terminators are on the board so the LA's cable simply plugs in. There's nothing fast. The circuit is built on a wire wrap.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 07:48:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 22, 2025, 07:41:07 pmWhile it might not seem obvious at 1st glance, the flying leads and grabbers for SDL2016canbe unplugged to provide 2x 20 pin headers for direct DUT connection.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 07:58:48 pm
content: It's been a while but if I needed a LA during development, I would commonly use MICTOR or connectorless. Now days, mostly JTAG. I do see people using LAs still, but again I'm not going to use a 4G scope to look at a 20MHz SPI bus.QuoteKeep in mind that connectorless probe has 54 contact points.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 08:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 22, 2025, 07:58:48 pmPerfect for a dedicated LA.Answer me this, which DSO's provide more than 16 LA channels ?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 09:08:36 pm
content: Hello,Tektronix has oscillographs with up to 64 digital channels.Best regardsegonotto

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 09:13:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 22, 2025, 08:07:50 pmAnswer me this, which handheld meters come with Beta measurement features? Why do companies add low end features like this to a meter? Perceived value of the feature richness? Personally, when I buy TE (or anything for that matter) I expect it to do what it was designed for well. If I buy a washing machine, I want it to clean clothes, not tell me when to order more soap. I am not buying a high speed scope to fill in as a cheap LA.There must be some reason why companies include these features as Siglent isn't the only one. As a potential customer, I am only suggesting that when purchasing such a scope, a LA is not something I would consider as part of my decision. For a low end scope, I would certainly consider it.Things I would consider are that whole window mouse dragging thing. Ability to measure jitter along with every other parameter at the same time without having to reconfigure the scope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 11:20:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 22, 2025, 09:13:46 pmMy old VICHY VC90 and along with its low cost one of the reasons I purchased it way back in hobbyist days.Found a good few low Beta transistors with it too.QuoteIt's optional, if you don't need it don't purchase the LA probe or any of the more advanced protocol decodes.QuoteWhich for some could be a valuable feature.As mentioned before I don't have 7000A however beta testers that frequent here could investigate window dragging which it might already support as when you look closely at each window they have an X to close them.Much like any of the popup windows which we can drag around the display to where it best suits usage.QuoteEye/Jitter analysis is a std feature in 7000A unlike for SDS3000X HD you have.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 12:12:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 22, 2025, 11:20:39 pmThat is true for any features.Quote from: tautech on February 22, 2025, 11:20:39 pmIs that really true? I have my doubts.Quote from: tautech on February 22, 2025, 11:20:39 pmYou missed my point. As we previously mentioned, once jitter has been enabled, ALL other measurements for that waveform are disabled. It's too bad that they did not architect the software more like LeCroy where these added features have no effect on the normal measurements.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 12:19:56 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2025, 12:12:18 amHave you not tried with SDS3000X HD ?You can even shift the virtual keyboard around the display.In fact any of the OSD boxes that have a X to close them. Standard feature for all DSO's using this GUI.Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2025, 12:12:18 amNo I didn't.Jitter measurements in lesser models are part of the Measurement featureset whereas Eye/Jitter analysis in 7000A is a Analysis mode.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 01:31:45 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 23, 2025, 12:19:56 amFrom your previous posts, the 3000 does not support showing individual channels on unique graphs. And the only way to select these with the 7000 is to drag each channel with the mouse (so I have been told). So, make a demo, showing all 8 graphs loaded, then rearrange them with the mouse.None of what I have asked about should have been a problem to demo. Running your apples to apples test for example should have been a couple of minutes to setup and show. Now that we know the 7000 is even more limited than the 3000 in that regard, I wonder if the lack of any demos is because of the problems. Personally I would rather understand the issues and limitations before taking the next step.Quote from: tautech on February 23, 2025, 12:19:56 amThe analysis mode was previously covered. My point is that was a poor choice to structure the code for the 7000 in such a way that it limits the user. While the 3000 may work differently, not imposing such limitations, it lacks the BW.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 02:40:12 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2025, 01:31:45 amWe are talking at each other with crossed purpose !Hunt out the previously posted multiple display screenshots where an X is showing where you can close the waveform window.Any/all OSD windows with an X to close we can drag around but 2N2055 needs to confirm we can rearrange waveform windows.If not, this feature IMO should be added as you have pointed out would be desirable.Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2025, 01:31:45 amThe Eye/Jitter analysis mode is correctly positioned on DSO's with sufficient BW to make best use of it.6&7kA

author: Momchilo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 02:59:18 am
content: You could check the Yokogawa Scopecoders. They are brilliant for this task. New ones are probably too expensive. Sometimes you can get the older generations quite cheap.The models would be DL750, DL850 and DL950. Each model is a own generation. You can decide how many and what kind of channels you want. Each channel or channel pair is a separate input card. So you can customize it for your purposes. E.g. up to 16 isolated channels or just 4 "normal" channels with up to 16bit resolution.The newest DL950:https://tmi.yokogawa.com/solutions/products/data-acquisition-equipment/scopecorders/dl950/Long timebases in Roll mode or single mode with updating waveforms while waiting for the trigger are possible. Of course with active zoom as well. You can have many different graphs with assigned signals.I use those scopes at work and like them a lot.They have probably also smaller/cheaper models that are good enough for your task.I am not related in any way with Yokogawa, just a user. I just wanted to add the manufacturer to this discussion.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 04:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 23, 2025, 02:40:12 amCrossed purpose, meaning we have different goals? My goal is to learn more about the instrument to determine if it would be a good fit for my application. I greatly appreciate the frank and open feedback from 2N3055 and matia100.I assume you are in the business to sell instruments. Like any salesman, you feel the need to inject and steer the conversation. That can be of value when you have detailed knowledge about the product. It appears more an attempt to do damage control.Similar, after seeing that Siglent arb's encoder behave the way it did, I would have expected you to own in, not blame the customer when I raised the concern. That's damage control.Quote from: tautech on February 23, 2025, 02:40:12 amCorrectly positioned? My problem is the way Siglent implemented the jitter measurements with the 7000. I have no idea what you are trying to convey but would guess that you disagree.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 04:45:45 pm
content: Quote from: Momchilo on February 23, 2025, 02:59:18 amWe never did hear back from the OP and still have no idea what their sampling requirements are outside of knowing which DSO they are currently using. Could you setup and repeat the simple test I show in the following link? Maybe post a video of it?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-on-finding-an-oscilloscope-that-can-display-zoomed-traces-when-rolling/msg5818377/#msg5818377

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 04:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 23, 2025, 12:12:18 amThen again, if you want a real Lecroy, buy a real Lecroy. The whole philosophy behind Lecroy scopes (the ones they design themselves) is geared towards analysis which gets in the way of using their scopes as a more general purpose oscilloscope.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 06:00:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 23, 2025, 04:56:27 pmI have a history with LeCroy's DSOs, which is why I use them for a comparison. My 64xi is for general purpose use. When considering a replacement, I know what I am looking for. Its not their philosophy about the architecture, but rather their cost cutting measures that has got in the way.Indeed, I may end up with another LeCroy, but for now per Tautech's recommendation, I am looking at Siglent.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 07:05:11 pm
content: *** Also, while someone posted that the Zoom window was limited to 100ms when using roll, could you verify that? Seems odd that it wouldn't at lease match the performance of the 3000.18) What is the lowest vertical scaling? The 3000 will go down to 500uV/div. I would assume the 7000 would match it.19) Does it support tool tips?20) Do me a favor and set the inputs to 50ohms (nothing connected to DSO beside AC power). Set the vertical scale to what ever the lowest setting is. Turn off ERES (select normal). Set horizontal to 500us/div and 1M pts. Turn on channel1, auto trigger. Now, move the mouse. Does that signal bleed through?21) The 3000 will turn off a menu after 10 seconds. It does not matter if you have the mouse hovering over the menu or not. Does the 7000 have the same 10 second timeout? Is there a way to program it?22) You had stated that you own a smaller company. Are you required to have the equipment calibrated? If so, how are you handling having this scope calibrated? If sending it back to the factory, any input on turnaround times, costs, maybe a sample report and such would be helpful.23) When running 20 above to check for the mouse signal, could you also not move the mouse and set the trigger to normal and see if there is any periodic noise you pick up.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 07:24:20 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 07:05:11 pmAnnoying isn't it !They used to be 3s before I complained bitterly menus autoclosing on a new user was a cause for frustration and now 10s is factory default .....yet it's the first thing we change to OFF before dispatch.See screenshot for the menu management location and menu display options.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 07:44:32 pm
content: Three of us could not figure out how to change that. I eventually read the getting started manual and if it was mentioned, I missed it. So I turned to the real manual and tried searching for "auto" "memo" "close". No luck. Its simple now that I see it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 07:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 07:44:32 pmIt's in the User manual under: Hide the Dialog Box P37https://int.siglent.com/u_file/document/SDS3000X_HD_UserManual_EN01A.pdf

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 08:35:52 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 07:05:11 pmHi Joe.*** Current public FW might have the limit. One I have does not. When the next FW will be published and what will be included I personally don't know.18. 1mV/div.19. If by tooltips you mean does it pop up small text labels when you hover over some button with mouse cursor, no, it does not.20. With wireless mouse? There is some, minor bleed in of RF, barely visible in the noise, and only on front panel USB. (Logitech M185) On the USB ports at the side I see nothing. With wired mouse there is nothing on any USB ports. I must note that I have very early HW revision, don't know if that has any impact, better or worse.21. on 3000 and all other touchscopes from Siglent from the same family, in Display menu you can set "Hide menu" timeout to some time, or to Off meaning it will never hide it automatically until you close it manually.22. No, I don't have contracts at this time that oblige me to have traceable calibration. Which would be a nightmare here in Croatia, and in my town specifically, because I have very little choice but to send equipment for calibration somewhere else. For my Keysight scope it was Germany for instance, so for me Siglent EU is the same.... In an attachment, a calibration doc for my 3000xHD, sorry for a bad photo, a quick snap with a phone. But you'll get the gist of how it looks.. For pricing and turnaround, since you are on the other continent (some would say different planet), asking Siglent NA would be best source of real info on this. I know they have some cal labs they work with. I would ping them for that.23. No, I don't see any periodic noise, no triggering at all. When set to Auto trigger, vertical histogram shows nice Gaussian distribution....Best,Siniša

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 09:36:30 pm
content: That is really interesting about the zoom. So with your top secrete firmware, they don't limit the zoom like the released code. Can you actually set it lower than the 3000's 50ms or just the same?18) Odd they would limit it to a voltage higher than the low cost 3000. I wonder what the reason would have been.20) The Siglents we have were supplied with a RAPOO M218 wireless mouse. I take it yours was not supplied with a mouse. Interesting that you are able to detect it when it's plugged into the front USB connectors only.22) I'll check to see what they are doing for calibration and service for the USA. I would imagine they have this all automated as the scope is fairly complex and it would take some time to go through it. If they detect a problem, I would assume they could service it here in the states rather than having to ship it back to the factory. As a minimum, provide customers with a loaner while it is out. Do you have a service contract with them?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 09:56:25 pm
content: 20. Yes std mouse with many Siglent instruments, but not all.Rapoo mouse also works just fine with other Siglent touch display instruments that aren't shipped with a mouse.However beta testers often get the bare minimum of accessories with a prerelease instrument.....22.Siglent branches have Cal equipment for basic tasks that run their inhouse automated scripts, last I talked to now retired GM at NA they were using the Fluke universal calibrators we also saw last year while visiting HQ.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 28, 2025, 09:56:25 pmI wonder what Siglent's response to hearing about the mouse bleeding into the input would be. Seems like it would be easy enough to replicate. Move mouse, does it show up in the trace or not.... I wonder if the fancy decoder software could pull the data off the mouse.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:25:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 09:36:30 pmHello,I believe with the SDS3000X HD, 500 uV/div is only a zoom of 1 mv/div.Best regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:27:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 09:36:30 pmI'd guess that the bandwidth is much higher.22) :We (a small company where I work) have to have our equipment calibrated annually by an accredited calibration laboratory.Any calibration protocols that come with the equipment are of no use to us, no matter how detailed they are.The main reason for this is that a calibration by the manufacturer is not relevant if he calibrates his own products, which also makes sense.An oscilloscope calibration at an accredited, listed laboratory costs about €300.A 6.5-digit multimeter costs €150.The good thing is that I can also have my devices calibrated by these and other laboratories in Germany at roughly the same prices as a private individual.Most laboratories here also accept private orders.As tautech already wrote, Siglent calibrates its products automatically and the results are stored in a database.In two cases, I received the complete protocol on request.For the Cost-effective (“X”) series, a one-page confirmation is usually enclosed that the product has successfully passed calibration.For the Pro series, a complete protocol is enclosed.The SDS3000X HD seems to be an exception; a complete protocol was enclosed with my oscilloscope.Well, it's not that cheap anymore...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:29:28 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on February 28, 2025, 10:25:11 pmAFAIK no, in contrast to other brands, Siglent does not “cheat” in this respect.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 10:49:15 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 10:21:22 pmWhich would not be unexpected when using a mouse dongle in the front USB sockets near to the analog inputs.However as 2N3055 points out, there is zero interference when using the rear USB sockets for any mouse dongle as most would do so to preserve the front USB sockets for storage and such.Of course Siglent would know about this and it seems like a logical compromise to place the mouse dongle in the rear USB sockets for sensitive work.OTOH, find me a use process that can't be done without a mouse ?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 11:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 28, 2025, 10:29:28 pmHello,I had played with SCPI programs for MHO3 and SDS3000X HD on 15.10.2024. The results for the SDS3000X HD are output as a 12-bit word from the ADC.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5678075/#msg5678075With the SDS3000X HD I worked with 500 uV/div, 1 mV/div, 2 mV/div and 5 mV/div. The result of 500 uV/div and 1 mV/div cannot be distinguished. If 500 uV/div is really not a zoom of 1 mV/div, the ADC values at 500 uV/div should be significantly higher than at 1 mV/div.Best regardsegonotto

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 11:32:04 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 28, 2025, 10:21:22 pmI would hate to see that my honest effort to give you truthful data serves only as a material for standup....No, you cannot really see anything that could be decoded or considered real signal. I said I saw something in the noise. No that there is signal over the screen. And if I were to use the mouse with it on permanent basis, it would be connected in the back. Those 2 ports in the front are really for USB sticks for easy access. I don't want to use them up for permanently connected peripherals.But, speaking of USB memory sticks, I don't use them at all anymore, because all Siglent touch scopes (event tiny 800xHd) can directly map network drives, so everything goes to network directly...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 01:39:28 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 28, 2025, 10:27:25 pmWhen you have your local laboratory calibrate your 7000, do they run all the same checks to prove full operation of the scope? Does Siglent supply your lab with the software to run through all of these tests? Or, does someone manually do what they feel is needed to prove the scope is in working order?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 01:51:17 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 28, 2025, 10:49:15 pmDouble negative sales speak. So you are suggesting that plugging the mouse into the front is expected to cause interference and is a known issue. I assume then that it is documented. Where? Similar to blaming the customer for turning the knob on the arb too fast causing it to act erratic. I see both as design issues.Much of my use cases are running the scopes automatically over the remote connection. When using them standalone, I seldom use the touchscreens and tend to stay with the mouse and keypads.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 02:05:51 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 28, 2025, 11:32:04 pmNo worries.Quote from: 2N3055 on February 28, 2025, 11:32:04 pmInteresting is every scope we purchased, the user plugged the mouse dongle into the front. They still have one port for the stick if needed. The BW on those scopes is so low, I could not find any interference. I'm surprised with the 7000 that you can't see the carrier.At home, most of my old Ethernet based equipment is Windows based. I share a local area area on my desktop and let the equipment use it. I still use a stick from time to time with my one scope as the PC is not always on.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 02:29:56 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 01:51:17 amNot at all, only common sense that when you introduce a possible interference source to sensitive measurements they might have some affect as you well know.You'll get worse RFI from overhead LED's......Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 01:51:17 amSimilar although I've found the virtual keypad adequate for my needs and less clutter on the bench.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:42:41 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 01, 2025, 02:29:56 amSiglent supplies the wireless mouse with the scope. You claim it is common sense that it would cause problems depending where it is connected. Again, point me to where this is documented?I wonder how it would behave with a unshielded USB extension cable plugged into the front for an antenna... Rather than a stick, what happens with a M.2 carrier or external HD with long cable?Sure I can use a wired mouse (adding another antenna) or potentially use the side ports and put tape over the front USB connectors to avoid any potential problems. But it's like asking me to turn the knob slower on your Arb. I am expecting for a scope of this class, that the designers took every step possible to avoid such a problem. The manual talks about the scope being tested at 10V/m. Can you provide the full test report? I can't find it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:42:21 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 04:42:41 amReply #107 above.Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 04:42:41 amWhy wonder, test it and provide what could be valuable feedback.Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 04:42:41 amDatasheet actually: P16https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_07_01/SDS3000X%20HD_Datasheet_EN01B.pdfRadio-frequency electromagnetic field Immunity IEC 61000-4-3/EN 61000-4-310 V/m (80 MHz to 1 GHz);3 V/m (1.4 GHz to 2 GHz);1 V/m (2.0 GHz to 2.7 GHz)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 10:16:50 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 02:05:51 amPeople do what they do. I just shared with you what I do and what my rationale is. That is all. Maybe I am overthinking...I have an always on PC that I have a share on for this purpose.I use stick mostly with Keysight that doesn't do LAN shares. That is not often, don't use it much lately and pulling data from it even less.Screen grabs I get directly from instrument's Web page, which even Keysight has.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 01, 2025, 06:42:21 amThat's a customer's comment is all, not a formal document from Siglent.Quote from: tautech on March 01, 2025, 06:42:21 amWhile it may provide valuable data for me, I don't see Siglent actually doing anything with this information. Like the arb's knob erratic behavior, or the mouse/USB not properly shielded, just blame the customer.Quote from: tautech on March 01, 2025, 06:42:21 amThat is not a test report but only an indication that the scope had possibly been tested. Somewhere at Siglent, there would be an actual test report/s.***Not a good example as they are looking at emissions rather than susceptibility, but this is basically what I am looking for:https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/reliability-data/linear_technology_ltm4624_en_55022_emc_report_31363029_002_rev0.pdf***I imagine with the scope having a problem with the low powered mouse, even with nothing connected to it and the inputs grounded, at 10V/m you are going to see that get into the system.Part of the problem when companies send products out for certification, the people conducting the tests may be clueless about the product and have no idea how to go about testing it. Any time I have used and outside lab, I camp out on-site for this reason. Siglent may have their own EMC lab. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 04:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 01, 2025, 10:16:50 amFor the mouse, the problem I see would be if someone were not aware of the issue and end up wasting time hunting down signals that have nothing to do with what they are testing. Maybe ship it with soft plugs and a warning about the use of USB.Networking wise, where I work we do not have free access to the network. IT likes to be in control. At home, anything goes.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 07:36:40 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 04:36:16 pmI know of a chap that had problems with a Fluke DMM which led him on a massive task exploring and testing DMM robustness yet he isn't prepared to do a single test or fully readandunderstand my reply of yesterday.Relevant parts in highlight.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:40:30 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 01, 2025, 07:36:40 pmQuoteWhat is the pass fail criteria? What was the setup? Are you suggesting that the scope is completely immune?I suspect with the USB problems, the scope would be effected, even if I were to ground all the inputs, leave out the mouse, and only have a line cord attached. I can certainly run it, but I want some idea what to expect before investing any resources.Testing meters at home is a far cry from running EMC tests. I have not totaled up the amount I have spent on meters over the last several years but lets just say $5000 USD give or take. Designing and constructing the equipment, then running the tests, documenting results, basically free as I am donating my time. Now, how much do you think it would cost to rent a chamber to run a full set of tests on a scope? Say the scope is damaged as a result. Who covers the costs?You seem ignorant about what you are trying to discuss. Nothing against you as I know you work in sales, not design. I really wouldn't expect you to have much of a background if any. In contrast, I have been involved in running tests like this over my entire career. Again, just find the right people and provide a copy of the test report. It shouldn't be a big deal.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 09:15:26 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 01:39:28 amWe don't have an SDS7000A, we almost bought one, but at that point we decided to buy a LeCroy WavePro HD-MS.It costs significantly more, but had the features we needed. Siglent now has the same features, but it was too late.For day-to-day jobs, we have calibrated Siglent scopes in the lower price range, and for development jobs, we have the larger Lecroy.I can see on Monday whether the calibration protocols differ depending on the type.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 09:22:59 pm
content: I have not been to an outside lab since it appears, August of 1995. Almost 30 years ago. I needed to run a similar radiated susceptibility test. The total cost back then was $7k USD. In today's dollars, roughly $14.6k. The blue colored folder contains the test report. It's not a simple, Yeah we passed line on a paper. There is a lot more to it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 09:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 01, 2025, 09:15:26 pmI wonder what the features were that you required that they did not support early on? Assuming you evaluated the 7000 on-sight, I wonder if you have any other feedback? Even hearing the engineer's impressions would be helpful.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 10:03:34 pm
content: I am the test field manager at my company and responsible for the procurement of suitable measuring equipment.Last year, we needed a scope for a new project that could also analyze various USB and Ethernet protocols.For this, we needed a bandwidth that our existing scopes could not provide, we “only” had 500Mhz.I immediately thought of the new 7000A, which is incredibly affordable for the 3GHz bandwidth.At the same time, I was in contact with Lecroy.The 7000A was just released last year and at the time didn't have any options in the direction we needed them.The WavePro 254 HD-MS had 3(!) web pages full of options, there is almost nothing that couldn't be analyzed with the scope.Time was pressing and so I decided together with the development manager that we would buy the Lecroy.And then something came into play where I still don't know if it is also possible with Siglent:direct sales.You should never buy a Lecroy scope from a dealer.If you contact Lecroy directly and buy the product from them, “astounding” discounts are available.In the configuration in which we received our 254 HD-WS, it would have cost almost €100,000 on the street; we paid half that.As I said, the SDS7000 now has a number of options including test fixtures, but not “back then”.If they had been there at the time, we would probably have bought one, if only because at around €30,000 including options, it would have been significantly cheaper.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 04:36:01 pm
content: 23) Do you have a way to create a PAM4 signal that you could measure? Looking at the following post, you can see me using the SLJ's Gigawave 6400 to view such a waveform. Notice the histogram to the right.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-sized-6-ghz-1-tss-et-scope/msg5376890/#msg5376890Can you repeat this test using the 7000? They have an Amplitude measurement which supports histograms.QuoteWhat does the scope actually show when looking at the histogram? Do you see the highest distribution for all four levels? Do these peaks match up with the what the scope shows in the time domain? I suspect this is going to fail and am guessing there is another way to plot the distribution but I am not finding anything in the manual.24) Have you tried to do pattern testing? The manual shows some basic waveforms. I wonder if their software supports making more than the three masks they show. Again, thinking PAM4 for example. Can you create a mask for each eye? It has the ability to auto create a mask. How does that handle the PAM4?25) One other question about the mask testing. As we have discussed, the 7000 has these unique Analysis modes which all seem to have their own special subset of functions. I am curious if you select the eye-diagram analysis mode, then try and use the mask, does the auto mask generator work the same as the standard mask test?QuoteThe 7000 has two front USB ports. Is one more sensitive than the other?26) I am curious, before you purchased the 7000, did you look at other brands? Assuming cost had a high priority, did you look at Rigol? They seem to have scopes in the similar price range/bandwidth. Skimming the manual to see if they support multiple graphs like LeCroy and it appears they don't.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2025, 03:08:16 pm
content: Looking at the Rigol DS70000 and wonder how long that flip display is going to last. Not sure what to make of the electronic label.QuoteI wonder when the label fails after 20 years is the scope dead? Looks like some no value added marketing BS to me.https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-a700a785-35be-4014-8360-aa2ec0a4bbdc/1/-/-/-/-/DS70000_UserGuide_EN.pdfSoftware seems less mature than the Siglent.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 02:34:33 pm
content: Looks like our first Siglent SDS3000X HD is dead. Almost made it a year of continual use.No errors on power up. Looks like it will not display a trace. Appears to never trigger in any mode. Reset and auto setup do nothing. UI seems to be normal. Just no data.I guess we now get to see how their service works.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 02:37:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 16, 2025, 02:34:33 pmWhich firmware version? Did you do a full factory restore, or just basic reset?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 02:56:03 pm
content: Basic reset. The help file is in Chinese so no idea about any factory restore.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 03:15:45 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 16, 2025, 02:56:03 pmIt's basically the same on their modern scopes. Go to Utility -> Save/Recall -> click Recall -> Factory Default.If that doesn't help (try more than once), then try flashing the latest firmware version again, and do the Factory Default 3 times.It's probably not much better, but I think they might have an English manual.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 03:48:49 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 16, 2025, 02:34:33 pm

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 04:14:40 pm
content: 1)Factory recall 3X times. No effect.2)Reload same firmware DSO came with. No effect.3)Factory recall 3X times. No effect.4)Run calibration. Odd, it allows it. Says it finished with no errors. No effect.5)Factory recall 3X times. No effect.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 04:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 16, 2025, 04:14:40 pmThat sucks. I guess it is warranty time. It's possible a recovery package might also exist that could help, but I don't know.This is dumb, but worth checking- the traces aren't hidden, right?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 05:20:52 pm
content: Been using them for several months without any major issue. With nothing attached to the scope, auto trigger, all waveforms on and displayed. You get nothing but a blank screen. Worked fine yesterday. Today, dead.It will be interesting to see how the others hold up. Basic lab environment. This particular scope was assigned to the same bench for it's short life. Not like it was being moved around.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2025, 06:09:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 16, 2025, 05:20:52 pmMoving it around shouldn't matter much anyway. I'm curious what the problem is since I want to upgrade to the 3000 eventually.I look forward to seeing how quickly Siglent resolves the issue.Thanks,Josh