Wanna buy a memristor ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 07:08:52 pm
content: http://knowm.org/product/bs-af-w-memristors/

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 08:45:37 pm
content: AHaH computing, brilliant or bullshit?They claim to have over 40 patents...

author: nugenta
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 09:57:34 pm
content: Well I certainly hope its not bullshit since i've been at it for 12 years and dropped out of EE graduate school to pursue it, but we will see.If you have questions, just ask. Also, if you guys want to review one of our memristors, just let me know where to ship them. As for patents, it has been a necessary evil. It was funded by a partnership with my mother and two local patent attorneys. Everything about what we are doing is little crazy, i'll give you that.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 10:02:50 pm
content: Quote from: nugenta on September 07, 2015, 09:57:34 pmMail one for Dave. You will get publicity and we will get an episode.

author: Chris C
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 12:13:37 am
content: Quote from: zapta on September 07, 2015, 10:02:50 pmI second that.Is this related to the memristor chip offered by Bio Inspired Technologies, also in Boise? I looked at that a couple of months ago, found conflicting specs between various webpages and datasheets, was difficult to figure out what its true capabilities were.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 02:56:40 am
content: I'd love to see a vid on them by Shahriar Shahramian. Or mikeselectricstuff, but Mike has a tendency to take a dremel tool to delicate semiconductors

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 05:38:14 am
content: Quote from: nugenta on September 07, 2015, 09:57:34 pmI'll grant you that the video on your website has me interested. I also tried to get my head around some of the stuff written on there last night and I was like, okay maybe I'll try this again when I'm not so tired.It looks like a radically different approach, often a hard path to follow for innovators, hence my remark, but I do hope it turns out to be a step forward in computing architecture.I'm sure this will catch the attention from some of the bloggers and we'll see about it soon!BTW, are there already products incorporating memristors on the market?

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 07:14:38 am
content: Quote from: ConKbot on September 08, 2015, 02:56:40 amSecond that, I enormously enjoy EEVBlog but I think Shahriar is more likely to go really deep into memristors. Sitting here on my armchair.

author: nugenta
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 02:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: Chris C on September 08, 2015, 12:13:37 amThe Bio Inspired Technology (BIT) and Knowm Memristor were both invented by Dr. Kris Campbell of BSU. I approached Dr. Campbell after seeing the data on the BIT-licensed device and asked her to enhance pulsed incremental operation and increase the on-state resistance for use in neuromemristive applications. Both BIT and my own company were funded under the same Air Force Research Labs STTR topic: "VLSI-Memristor Building Blocks for Future Autonomous Air Vehicles".

author: nugenta
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 02:45:43 pm
content: Quote from: ConKbot on September 08, 2015, 02:56:40 amNo need for a dremel. We can send a couple raw die as well if you like. You guys have a probe station?

author: nugenta
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 02:56:37 pm
content: QuoteYou have no idea. If we did not start patenting years before HP and the rest, we would not have a holy chance in hell. Perhaps we still don't, but i'm an optimist. It seemed impossible 10 years ago, and it seems much less impossible today. I also do not view AHaH Computing as some sort of wholesale replacement of what we have. My primary interest is, and has always been, to build learning synaptic processors. It just so happens that AHaH Attractors are also universal logic functions, which may or may not be useful.QuoteYes and no. The problem is the hype surrounding memristors. RRAM is a memristor without lots of intermediate states (the thing im interested in), and there are some RRAM memory products out there I believe. Until BIT and Knowm, I do not believe there were any discrete devices to play with. The Knowm device is also specially designed for incremental neuromorphic applications. Both BIT and Knowm devices come from wafers produced by Dr. Campbell and her students at the Idaho Micro Fabrication Laboratory at BSU. This is a serious bottom-up effort.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 03:35:32 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on September 08, 2015, 07:14:38 am+1 Shahriar designs chips for a living so should be able to make some sense of it - All I know is it's a pretty looking lump of Silicon (or whatever)

author: Shpushka
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 09:57:49 pm
content: Hello! Who can say me, please, where I can buy the Memristor (Sn or Cr or another one)?

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2016, 11:39:32 pm
content: Oh how my old circuit theory professor raved on about them. He only had a blackboard version but that never stopped him...seems he wasn't as insane as I thoughtAlso +1 Shahriar

author: riyadh144
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 09:58:11 am
content: Lets hope it is true, I would buy it if I had the money.You should really send it to Dave.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 01:16:48 pm
content: Fascinating tech and subject, I'm very aware I've not got anywhere near an understanding but it'd be great to see some sort of dev/experimenter's package available.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 01:21:03 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 07, 2015, 10:02:50 pmYes, mailbag please.Also, making my own memristor has been on my to-do list for a long time now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 01:23:57 pm
content: QuoteThat rules out myself and Mike then I guess, unless one magically finds it's way into my hands...

author: Holmes34
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 03:57:27 pm
content: Maybe someone in the States could hook Dave up with a pair of thosetelepresence robot armsand a scope to get around the export problems!

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 04:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 18, 2016, 01:23:57 pmAnd once theECCNhas been acquired, then what?Edit: I guess if the number will start with "5E", we might have to wait a long time...

author: riyadh144
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 07:01:50 pm
content: Can you send them to a person in the US, and that person sends it to dave.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2016, 11:46:46 pm
content: I can see that would be utterly fascinating to play with yet I have no idea what I would use one for currently haha.Quote from: riyadh144 on October 18, 2016, 07:01:50 pmYea, thats the likely solution but dont let em catch you, they might bust your door down with a SWAT team these days.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 12:54:43 am
content: Quote from: riyadh144 on October 18, 2016, 07:01:50 pmPlease! No one even TRY this!This is what gets people sent to prison, no exaggeration. The US can and will charge and extradite the foreign receiving party as well.Once something is classified as military hardware, the US has amazingly long arms. Never mind that the memristor is a fundament element, our laws, nor our congress persons particularly care.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 08:30:23 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on October 19, 2016, 12:54:43 amIs it illegal to export something that hasn't yet been given an export classification? Would it fall under a generic classification until determined otherwise ?

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 09:01:52 am
content: Looks like you'll have to make your own outside the US for a bit:http://sparkbangbuzz.com/memristor/memristor.htm

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 04:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 19, 2016, 08:30:23 amIn this particular case, where Defense dollars have been invested in development for a military application, the only safe route to export is to submit a request to the US State Department and ask for a letter that grants an exemption.The wrong thing to do is to try and export without a clear disposition.Just to give you an idea of how arcane and restrictive US law on military hardware is, as a US citizen, I can purchase the latest night vision equipment (if I could afford it). However, it is illegal for me to hand such a device to a non-US citizen and permit them to view through the night vision, even if we are in the US and I have no intention of selling or exporting the device. At that point, I have effectively exported the knowledge of what that device can do and have broken the law.So, when in doubt, ask the State Dept (or regulating authority) for disposition before transferring technology. Most of this stuff is explicitly detailed as part of ITAR, but there's some stuff, like this memristor, that have likely not been addressed yet. I just would not assume that this particular device is "generic" when the DOD might feel they own it at this point.Sorry for the "Danger Will Robinson!" posts, but this can be tricky business. I think if you're upfront and honest with State, you could get approval easily enough. Sneak around, and there's likely to be little forgiveness.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 05:21:24 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on October 19, 2016, 12:54:43 amIt sounds like it has not actually been classified yet and that Boise State has taken the precaution of not exporting the IC until they get the classification. I may be wrong, but it sounds like they are playing it safe rather than the law specifically making totally new/novel (and freaking passive!) devices not exportable until classification. I am unconvinced by the above argument above that since I shouldn't export a night vision system with obvious military uses and a clear and long classification as non-exportable that I should also not export a not-yet export classified passive electronic device. Maybe I am just adventurous in that way.Q for export experts: Are thereanypassive devices that are non-exportable?Q for memristor experts: What is this thing good for again? If I shove it in the feedback loop of an op-amp do I get some transfer function I couldn't do with the other passive devices? Or what?

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 01:06:45 pm
content: You can look up the purported applications of Memristor in wikipedia for yourself, but you'll find that many of them (non-volatile memory, neural nets) require a massive degree of miniaturisation before the concept becomes useful. These 8-memristors-in-a-DIP packages are purely for studying/scoping out these future applications; AFAICT any system containing one of these DIPs could be more easily and cheaply emulated using an 8-bit micro (and maybe some DACs).

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 01:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: JoeN on October 20, 2016, 05:21:24 amAs part of the STTR, the government will sometimes claim stuff, at least until it gets well developed. In those situations, it is controlled until the government says otherwise kind of mentality. When it comes to these kinds of projects, more often then not, it is a ask for permission or assume you aren't allowed to kind of situation. As LabSpokane said, they do NOT mess around.I do a lot of SBIR, STTRs bigger cousin, stuff at my work (have an NIH SBIR proposal going out today) and for some projects the government will just deem it classified and that's it; no more discussion. At my work, ALL doors MUST have access restrictions, each lab has independent restrictions. If we employ foreign nationals, which we no longer do because of the headaches, they are not allowed in the office areas of the building at all. Which meant they had to have a desk in the lab. If they needed to see the director, one of us had to escort them to and from his office. Honestly, it is interesting HOW strict they can get. For example, before I was here there was a PI working on a highly classified project. Nobody in the company knew anything more than the detail in his SBIR proposal. Even the proposal knowledge was limited to the few people that vetted and reviewed his proposal. After the proposal was accepted, they were notified of its classified status and had all sorts of documents to sign. Once the project got going, there were ZERO updates. Even his own boss was not allowed to be updated on the status of the project, not even as simple as its going well. This meant that his performance reviews were basically impossible. When the project finished, the government basically took him with the project. Literally two months after the project ended, the government hired him on and all of his equipment (which the government paid for anyways) and everything else went with him.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 04:47:06 pm
content: Wow, what a stifling situation. I'm glad I'm not in one of them...

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 06:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on October 20, 2016, 01:06:45 pmI wonder if these memristors in a DIP are actually just that, using some "phantom/parasitic power" method to achieve the 2 terminal passive requirement?

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2016, 01:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on October 20, 2016, 04:47:06 pmIt has its benefits from a job security stand point. Most Phase I SBIR projects are around 6mo to a 1yr, Phase II are 2-3 years. For example, as of right now, based on our budget my job is 100% guaranteed through the end of 2018 just from the projects that are on deck and that is assuming we don't take on a single other SBIR project between now and then.Otherwise....yeah. Lots of headaches and I will leave it at that.