Cheap tools - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: A
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 20, 2017, 11:45:43 pm
content: Do you guys have any recommendations for cheap soldering stations not looking to spend over $100 AUD.Also a good quality multi meter that is less than $50 AUD.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 06:29:49 am
content: How much research you did exactly?Quote from: A on January 20, 2017, 11:45:43 pmHakko FX-888DQuote from: A on January 20, 2017, 11:45:43 pmAnything by UNI-T.

author: A
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 11:45:42 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 21, 2017, 08:19:29 amThanks for the response I just brought the Doss ZD99 for $16 AUD at a store called radio parts (bargin) After using it for about 2 hours I really like it. But I still have a shit box $5 AUD digitech multi meter. Do you have any recommendations for a good multi meter?

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 01:33:21 pm
content: So you have $134 AUD left from your total $150 budget for both. Get Dave's multimeter.

author: A
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 11:13:55 pm
content: Dave's multi meter looks pretty good.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 01:59:51 am
content: Don't forget used equipment, occasionally you can find a deal. I'm rather partial to Fluke meters and Hakko soldering gear but there is other good stuff. Careful not to go too cheap, there's a saying "buy cheap, buy twice" and someone once told me "Buy good tools and only cry once" and so far that has worked for me.

author: cowana
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 01:24:41 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 02, 2017, 01:59:51 amI'm a fan of the method of "buy a very cheap version - if you wear that out, splash out on a high quality model". It works very well for things you end up using infrequently, such as circlip pliers or broken bolt removers - while I'm sure my ones would wear out quickly if used hard, they suit my light use very well.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 01:32:42 pm
content: Quote from: cowana on February 02, 2017, 01:24:41 pmI'm also a fan of this method, especially if it's first time for you using that kind of tool. After using the cheapie you will know what features do you actually need and what are things annoying you the most. And sometimes you'll just stick with cheapie because it's ok for your workflowThat's especially true with power tools, there's no reason to buy $500 electric drill if you're making 10 holes a month - even a cheapiest Chinese model from local hardware store will more probably become stolen by drug addicts from your garage than wear out.

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 01:51:23 pm
content: Quote from: cowana on February 02, 2017, 01:24:41 pmI'm not a fan of this approach. It might work for things like pliers, but for most tools durability isn't the only consideration. When price affects the quality of the work and ease of use of a tool, I'd much prefer to spend a bit more upfront.The two specific tools called out in this thread are prime examples of this. A cheap multimeter isn't going to wear out* and neither will a cheap, non-temperature controlled soldering iron; however, paying for quality will save you a lot of headache and generally make the hobby much more enjoyable.*unless you blow it up, but then cheapness can easily become a safety hazard.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 02:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: iaeen on February 02, 2017, 01:51:23 pmAgreed. Exactly this. On the other hand, having to use a cheap and crappy tool will make a newbie appreciate the more expensive good quality one much more. Some people learn from the mistakes of others, some have to burn their own fingers (and wallets) first.However, when it comes to tools and test gear, unless it is really "I am going to use it once a year" type of purchase, I am not so rich to be able to afford buy cheap things. Sooner or later I would have to buy the proper tool anyway, so I wouldn't save anything by buying the cheap junk.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 02:26:20 pm
content: The problem with cheap tools is many of them are unusable. I stopped buying cheap tools time ago and it saved me a lot of money.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 02:44:21 pm
content: Some cheap tools are just fine. Others are worse than a waste of money. Unfortunately, by the time you can tell the difference you can usually afford more expensive tools and have most of the tools you need.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 05:57:19 pm
content: I occasionally buy cheap tools when it's something I only need once or twice, or when I plan to modify it for some other purpose. I'll buy a cheap socket at Harbor Freight and turn it down to fit a narrow recess or weld something to it to make a custom tool, no sense in paying a premium for a SnapOn or something for that. Some cheap hand tools are just fine, and the step drill bits I got at Harbor Freight for like $10 a set have been just as good as the one I paid 40 bucks for elsewhere. Other things though, like the cheap desoldering iron I had for years don't work nearly as well as the Hakko 808 I eventually bought. Had I known there were such a huge difference in performance I would have bought the Hakko years earlier and saved myself countless hours of frustration.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 08:45:31 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 02, 2017, 02:44:21 pmCheap tools may be a good way to learn exactly what you need first (and how to care for it first) before investing on a better long term one. After you learn the applicability of the tool and what feature you may miss or never even use, things like that, you are far better equipped to pick the more expensive long-term tool.For consumable (wear down) tools, I actually prefer the cheap-but-within-reason ones. Like a fresh (cheaper) cutting disc that cuts just a few times -- instead of using an older longer lasting but a little duller disc because of wear. That way, when I start a series job, I start with a fresh disc.Even wire-cutter fits that profile at times. Eventually, they seem to develop some dull spots. The damn thing is 99% good, just a lone dull spot because I cut something way too heavy that one time. Too wasteful to throw it out, but so annoying when I happen to cut at that dull spot.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 10:25:41 pm
content: I find that the real issue is to figure out when to go cheap and when to go expensive. It's never obvious.To stay on the Harbor Freight topic, I bought 2 sets of metric and SAE wrenches (made in different countries despite being sold in a similar package). After rounding one too many bolts with the metric set, I measured them and discovered the sizes were all over the place. Who would have thought you can get a 14mm wrench wrong by 0.5mm?Then Harbor Freight also sells the "industry standard" $69 1.5ton aluminum car jack. I have never seen one fail although I have seen hundreds in use and it's much cheaper than anything else. Go figure.I tend to buy:* Cheap for anything that I know has really good reputation (see HF jack above) or something that is disposable or is unlikely to fail at its job (e.g. a big pipe wrench).* Moderately expensive, known brand for most everything that I need to rely on. A good example is the Ryobi line of battery-powered tools. Most do their job well. For an occasional user, they are generally sufficient and the ecosystem is vast.* Expensive when I need to or it provides sufficient productivity increase (or frustration decrease). Going used for those is often a good option to control costs. This can be screwdrivers (having one very good set of screwdrivers, wire cutters, stripper is invaluable) or test equipment (Fluke 87V, Metcal system...).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2017, 11:50:19 pm
content: I have a HF compressor and a series of nailers from a pin nailer to a framing nailer. Bought everything on sale about 12 years ago and for my occasional use, they work just fine. If it is something I will use regularly, I would rather spend more and get better quality.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 12:21:10 am
content: That reminds me, I have a Harbor Freight pneumatic brad nailer that is fantastic, the trigger feels cheap and flimsy but every other part is precisely made and has a nice solid feel. Another similar one I was considering cost 6 times the price and had terrible reviews, the cheap one had great reviews so I bought it. So often these days the expensive stuff is the same cheap Chinese product with a different name slapped on it. I'm willing to pay a premium for something that is truly better but I'm not going to pay 5 times as much just for a name.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2017, 11:26:25 am
content: Cheap tools are often quite awesome.Headaches? They're in hindsight. If you start at the top, there's nowhere to go but down.If you start at the bottom, things just gets better and better in w/e it is you continue to invest in for fun/work/hobby/profit.I mean, you have no idea how good you have it if you start with all the best... Then you get those first world problems, lol. Ennui, the French call it?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 12:02:21 am
content: Also for hobbyist (or even professional that is still human), tools are not necessarily much different than toys. I just bought 8.00 analog DMM from Walmart. Tool? Toy? I dunno, but if it inspires me to use it, it will be worth the cost.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2017, 09:24:01 pm
content: Unless they see very infrequent use, (like once in 10 years) I never buy cheaply made tools. High quality tools can easily be had on eBay or at yard/garage sales for almost the price of cheap tools or even less as long as you don't try to buy the latest greatest model and you have some patience. I have probably scored over 3/4 of my tools this way, and I've probably got a couple truckloads worth. A recent example - a Fluke 87V with TL71 leads and a very nice Fluke lead set in a Velcro closure roll for less than $100 on Craigslist.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 11:05:03 am
content: Quote^ Watch out for rabbit holes.When you seek out quality tools of which you already have, I'm guessing, at least 3 or 4 of... you're not really getting any benefit from the quality, anymore!! Last-a-lifetime quality is supposed to be a benefit of only needing ONE, no longer worrying about it... and actually using said tool to accomplish things (that don't entail collecting more of same).I wake up at the bottom of a rabbit hole every now and then. Gotta clear the bench, reprioritize, and thin out those truckloads, myself.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 04:01:59 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 04, 2017, 12:02:21 amWell, yes, but you probably know that you shouldn't go anywhere near mains with that kind of "toy". An average hobbyist or newbie that buys this kind of thing doesn't know that - until it stops working or, worse, blows up in their hands.Case in point - colleague from work is redoing some lighting in his house and also bought one of these. Didn't work and when we opened it, the wire connecting one of the input terminals was detached and freely rattling inside around the PCB! Scary stuff, considering he was using it to check mains wiring!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 08:15:59 pm
content: ^ I personally don't understand the "must use Fluke" for mains mentality. If DMM doesn't work, then I obviously won't use it on anything.BTW, if this is the same model (I bought mine last week) you have to open the housing to put the battery in, so I've already given mine the once over.Insulation from mains is pretty easy. Are probes and leads covered in plastic? Yes? Is the housing of the DMM made of plastic? Yes? Ok, I'm good. Lol. 120V is not scary because of DMM you use, but the safety protocol you employ. Wear shoes. Don't touch bare wires while they're live, and only one at a time when they're not.If my DMM catches fire, it's ok. I don't carry it in my pants while using it. It's hard to read that way.There are plenty of mains devices that I use every day which are not made to Fluke standards. While I'm measuring mains (with any DMM), I'm at least aware of it for the seconds or minutes for this operation. If I have to probe mains once in a while, I am not going to buy a Fluke. (I actually have got a Fluke for free and have never used it.)If several hundreds of volts or if I do this day in day out, maybe I start being more particular.Basically, you should be more scared of shoddy wiring in things that can start a fire while you're asleep than the quality of your DMM. IMO.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 09:11:55 pm
content: It's a bigger issue in 240V land, or if you're working on something commercial or industrial, 277V lighting circuit or 480V. While 120V is not likely to do any spectacular damage, I've seen what can happen when something shorts in 480V equipment and the flash & bang is an order of magnitude more exciting than on 120V. A person could easily be seriously injured by a cheap multimeter failing on that, there's a good chance the housing would explode.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2017, 10:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on February 02, 2017, 08:45:31 pmI buy based on usage these days, but I also had to learn the hard way too many times to count. It certainly made me appreciate better tools that are frequently used.As per dull spots on your cutters, manufacturers typically offer resharpening services, and they'll sharpenanybrand (~$8 last I checked Swanstrom). You can typically sharpen them 3 times before they're worn out, giving you a much longer service life which also translates to a lot more financial value as well.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2017, 09:41:30 pm
content: ^Microshear flush cutters still cut even with minor dings, and most of us can sharpen them at home many times, if necessary. I'm sure true flush cutters can be sharpened approximately 3 times, or so, if they were to simpy go dull from cutting something mildly abrasive. But one decent ding is usually going to do them in. The microshear flush cutter edges overlap just slightly, somewhere on the order of a mil or two. Small dings don't leave a gap when the jaws are closed. If you're tired of throwing away flush cutters, you should try one. So the jaws cross each other like scissors (just barely); but jaws come together all at once like flush cutters. They are shaped like flush cutters and can cut as flush as anything. The Xurons I have were <$8.00, and they will cut same as new well beyond the point where your standard flush cutters have needed to be refurbished beyond repair. Like a new pair, all the time. I bought mine in 2013. 4 years of "brand new flush cutter" performance and no sign of slowing down.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 12:23:18 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 06, 2017, 09:41:30 pmYeah, I've got a pair of "Plato Model 170 Shears". They are just over $5 US, and they work as described above - at least if you don't abuse them. I don't abuse mine and they have lasted "forever".

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2017, 07:46:32 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on February 06, 2017, 09:41:30 pmThere are 3 blade profiles; bevel, semi-flush, and flush. Bevel lasts the longest, but also leaves the largest spike. Semi-flush lifespan is nearly identical to bevel, but leaves a very minor sized spike. Full flush are the most delicate, so have the shortest lifespan but leave no spike at all. Personally, I go for semi-flush except when they're not available.And they can still cut with dings as well, but it's dings that are by far the reason for re-sharpening rather than abrasion (copper is softer than hardened steel after all).

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 06:54:28 pm
content: As far as I can tell from 1 minutes of search and skim, microshear == semi-flush.And yeah, I was mistaken when I said they cut "as flush as anything." You're right. They leave a little "spike."I would think this could matter when making jewelry or the iike.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 07:17:41 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on February 07, 2017, 07:46:32 amI thought the dings were for wire stripping.These days, when half the time you're dealing with plated steel rather than soft copper component leads, it's worth having a cheapish pair of cutters with TC inserts for non-critical stuff. There are loads on ebay if you search for 'wire cutters TC'. Most are for orthodontic or jewelry use and will happily cut spring steel without damage. There are pliers too.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 03:04:14 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 08, 2017, 07:17:41 pmDepends on how it got there; if manufactured that way, then definitely for wire stripping (spin around that wrapping post baby). But I meant those that came about because the user cut something too big for the cutter to handle.You're definitely right about plated steel. I check with a magnet so I know which cutters to use as to avoid damaging what I have (I've Tungsten Carbide cutters from both Swanstrom and Erem).Nice recommendation for TC cutters for those on a tight budget (search term).FWIW, I got my TC cutters used from eBay for ~$20 per shipped.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 10:20:06 am
content: No, I did mean the unntentional dings!Yes, those medical/orthodontic ebay cutters are really good. I probably wouldn't trust ebay sourced ones in my mouth, but they're great for the bench, lots of interesting shapes too. I have a pair of these though:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TC-TUNGSTEN-CARBIDE-TIP-JAWS-SIDE-WIRE-CUTTER-CUTTING-JEWELLERY-JEWELRY-PLIERS-/151610569656?hash=item234cb1b3b8:g:HfQAAOSwPYZU-QAjThe box joint is a little loose, but I did actually cut a coil spring with them the other day and it didn't leave a mark.This style look as if they might be really nice for fine stuff too:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dental-Orthodontic-Hard-Wire-Cutter-Plier-TC-Dentist-German-SS-CE-POINTED-TIP-/171567045546?hash=item27f2315baa:g:kXkAAOSw-7RVBvlsP.S. I couldn't resist, I'll let you know!

author: tablatronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2017, 05:25:42 pm
content: Buy what you can afford to get the job done. You can replace it later, and probably will if you use it. With tools you cannot really predict what you will have for a lifetime until you aquire and learn.It is amazing what you can get done with a few shitty tools. Waiting around to buy something to save up for premium will just delay your learning or skill or project.Plus buying cheap terrible tools will allow you to learn the difference, and find actual deals in the future. Die cast, drop forged, good steel vs crap alloys, you can buy decent chinese tools if you know what to look for, and sometimes smell.I buy tools at wallgreens, dollar general, tractor supply crap bins. And luck out now and then. Sometimes you even get the same thing branded for triple the price. If you use it everyday buy a nice replacement and throw the old ones in the shed or hand em down. Those little stupid eyeglass screwdrivers, i have a whole drawer i buy sets for $1 when i see them, and i always lose them anyway.Arguments can be made for power tools, but if you are not a tradesperson, it usually is worth buying the $60 low midlevel version or fathers day sale garbage.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2017, 05:33:54 pm
content: I used to buy cheap tools, then I discovered what a difference good tools make, at least for certain things. I don't lose my tools, they're an investment that I take good care of and return to my toolbox when I'm finished using them. Cheap screwdrivers tend to strip screws, cheap pliers are often loose fitting and don't get a good grip. Cheap wrenches often have poor tolerances and round off bolt heads. You can't always judge quality by price, but the cheapest cheap stuff is usually crap. Even in cases when a cheap tool would be ok, I try not to support the race to the bottom culture that is resulting in everything being cheap crap. I cringe at the thought of how many resources are wasted making millions of tons of throwaway products in China that are a waste of fuel to ship around the globe and fill our landfills here.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 12:46:00 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/a-list-of-recommended-multimeters/

author: Harb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 04:05:01 am
content: Although some people have no choiceCheap SUCKS....that is all

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2017, 04:12:27 pm
content: Here is the use case for "cheap tools". Purchased a little more than 50 years ago when I was in high school and making do on allowance and odd jobs. Back when Japan was the source of cheap tools. Before they moved up the food chain. Before the US even talked to China, let alone did business there.These still work much as they did then. They are too large for many of today's jobs, but still get used very regularly, partly because they have trained my hands to fit and use them over that same 50 year interval. The major flaws are the plastic coating on the handles which didn't survive contact with the family dog back in the beginning, and a loosening of the hinge on the pliers over the years. If you look at the pictures carefully you can see the evidence of my peening the joint to re-tighten it and then regrinding the jaw tips to refine the alignment afterwards. Not bad for something that cost between a quarter and a tenth of what a "quality tool" cost back then.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 04:06:26 am
content: Lol, sorry but those Japanese "cheap" tools are at least an order of magnitude better than the garbage that has been pouring into our country from China for the last decade or two. The difference between the quality of cheap tools 50 years ago and cheap tools today is huge.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 04:34:33 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 02, 2017, 02:44:21 pmLOL..well said. If you need to ask should you get a cheap tool, quite sure you do not need the expensive one. BUT not all cheap tools are the same. Getting to know which is which is not the responsibility of the worst-cheap tool makers.My problem is with the "free" tools that come as bundle-gift. Very seldom you can get a useful quality. Being a typical EEVBLOG forum reader, I can't bear to throw them away. SO get myself those cheap induction coil heater to harden them, grind them, sharpening them, etc. Probably do not worth the time. Frankly I do enjoy building the ability, and the adventure.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2017, 01:14:52 am
content: Quote from: all_repair on April 27, 2017, 04:34:33 amI understand what you are saying about the "free" tools. Most really are in the throw away before you waste time on them. But as you say it just hurts to waste something potentially useful. I largely get this out of my system by using them for secondary purposes - epoxy mixing sticks, fire tongs and other ways that I wouldn't mistreat a tool I wanted to keep.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2017, 09:25:54 pm
content: QuoteThis may have been the case 20 years ago. But today, we have the internet. Good or bad, you may know within a couple of weeks of it hitting the market.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 12:57:08 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on May 02, 2017, 09:25:54 pmUnfortunately you don't. What you have is the informed opinions of people who may or may not have the same evaluation criteria you do, and the uninformed opinions of lots of people who think they are experts. It is often hard to sort this out to make an evaluation.The most obvious example is the Rigol 1054Z. Reading the threads here you could conclude either that this is the best scope value ever seen on the planet, or that it is a horrible smudge on the whole concept of DSOs. The true answer depends on who you are and what you are wanting to do.Even things like YouTube teardowns of a product don't solve the problem. I have seen any number of these teardowns note some "problem". Which I could care less about. But I know the impact of that "problem" on my use case. I have the knowledge evaluate whether the "oh mys" and "can you believe thises" reflect a condescending desire to have everything gold plated, a real concern about a problem that I won't encounter, a real concern that can be overcome by careful use, or just a wild opinion.Until you have enough skill and knowledge to understand what you want to do with your tools, and what different tools can contribute to those things you will still be operating largely blind.The information available on the internet can avoid help avoid some mis-steps, but the situation really hasn't changed too much.

author: Brettj
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:05:30 am
content: I learned the hard way about most cheap tools. Some are good, some are somewhat good, and some are crap. I would buy the best my budget would allow.If I used it everyday I would save up and get something better. If I used it infrequently I might buy a cheaper one.But when it comes to DMM for work I'll only use a Fluke. Why, because I need to make that what I'm working on is either the correct voltage or off.Also I will never buy a used DMM. Why e cause you never know what the person did to it before you bought it. Wether for home or work.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 04:13:47 am
content: These are my all-time favorite flush cutters. But, alas, not available anymore....But my replacement favorite is the Hakko CHP-170

author: tablatronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:59:22 pm
content: love those chp flush cutters, they are cheap chinese $5 on amazonYou can buy a 5 pack for the price of knipex 78sAnd I do like my cheap tools, yes Ill take that $.69 screwdriver

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:47:10 pm
content: QuoteIf you have no clue what you want your tool to do, you are not trying to buy a tool. You are trying to buy happiness. So go ahead and fall for whatever you hear and spend as much as you can, and try to stay none the wiser so long as you live.The info is out there. This is a very different situation from 20 years ago, when you either heard first hand, or you trudged around town and payed higher markups at specialty stores, or you blindly ordered things from a catalog. lol. If you are not finding the specific information you need based on incomplete reviews, then you are still no worse off than before. And you can email technical questions to the company. Or you can even ask owners specific questions on Amazon. Or forums like this. If you think there is no useful information about the Rigol 1054, just lols. There's tons of info easily available. If that info isn't helpful to you... you are not buying a tool. You are a consumer trying to consume, lol. If you can't make sense of the info and opinions, then it doesn't matter to you, does it? You can't know what you want until you learn how to use a scope and what it is going to be useful for... to you. You're still better off than 20 years ago.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 12:50:29 am
content: Honestly it depends on what you're trying to buy. Not every consumer item out there has accurate reviews - you can't claim otherwise. Sometimes you can find out a lot about the things you're trying to buy beforehand and sometimes you can't. There are a lot of reviews posted by incompetent consumers, not to mention people that write glowing reviews who are only familiar with the one item they've bought and have no basis for comparison. I will definitely agree that things are better with the internet though - at least now it's easy to get loads of information to sort through and make ones own judgements. Back in the day you could ask the guys you worked with, your neighbor, your friends and family and that was about the extent of it. The sales folks were a bit better knowledge-wise than they are today, but they've never really been a good source for truthful and correct info.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 01:25:35 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on May 03, 2017, 09:47:10 pmThere is a lot of information on the Rigol thread. You can use it. I can use it. But we are both experienced and know what we want and what we are looking for. We can understand both the advocates and the nay sayers. Same thing for other sources. How many counts do you need for a meter? You can find that on the web. Easily. You can also find lots of advice on how many counts are useful. What is difficult is relating that information to your own needs when you are just starting out. Who knows at the beginning that they will be a volt nut?Another great example of this problem is Consumer Reports magazine, a product rating magazine popular in the US. It is run by very earnest, well meaning people who honestly try to evaluate the pluses and minuses of products. They attempt to do comprehensive evaluations of products and provide that information to their subscribers. Articles are littered with tables comparing features, and with reports on tests and real life usage by members of their large staff. But they often have significant fails. Two examples.At the beginning of the calculator revolution they rated the TI-59 highly for reliability, and downrated the competing HP-35. Based this on a test knocking the two calculators off the top of a filing cabinet onto a concrete floor. The more lightly constructed TI-59 fared well in this test while one of three HP-35s broke. They didn't uncover the fact that the keypad on the TI-59 often failed after a year or so of heavy use, while the HP product just kept ticking. Most engineers will encounter the latter problem, only a small subset will run into the first, even though it is a realistic accident.More recently, they highly endorsed the current trend in refrigerators which have a freezer in the bottom and two doors in the upper refrigerator compartment. They based this recommendation on more usable room and easy access. Not noting that the room, and to some extent the access comes at the expense of icemaker capacity. Consumer Reports happens to be located in the norther tier of the US. For Americans in the sunbelt this lack of ice making capacity turns a refrigerator into a terribly frustrating device.Both examples are cases where expert opinion fails to answer a question that may or may not be obvious for a researcher to ask. Only experience lets you know these often not obvious personal preferences and needs. Once you know them the internet is an excellent tool for selecting items satisfy those needs.