Is the Flir E4 (with hack) the best option today? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 09:09:31 am
content: I'm ready to purchase a thermal camera.It will be used for a wide range of things, from PCB fault diagnostics to racecar tuning from tire/exhaust temp.(I know I'll need an external lens for PCB work with the E4)I was about to get a Flir E4 and hack it, but the model is quite old now, are there any better options?I don't want something that plugs into a phone because it will become unusable when phones switch to the next standard after USB-C, and I just don't like mechanically mounting something via USB.Any other thermal cameras I should consider?

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2020, 11:37:12 pm
content: Same here , not the racing anymore , but lots of uses .Same question

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2020, 11:40:50 pm
content: Anyone?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:28:28 am
content: There is a lot of previous discussion on which are the best ‘bang per Buck’ thermal cameras but my view remains unchanged since 2013 !1. The Ex platform represents the best value for money ‘all in one’ handheld solution thanks to the ability to upgrade the lowest specification E4 to beyond the highest specification E8. The camera does use a fixed focus lens but it can be manually focussed with a 3D printed adjustment tool. A close-up ZnSe lens may also be used fir PCB work. There are many designs of close-up lens holder available on 3D printing design repositories. Image quality, once upgraded, is excellent for the price paid. Take a look at FLUKE’s offerings.... they are expensive for the imaging performance you receive as the lower specification models have not been reverse engineered to make them upgradable. They are in reality Infrared Solutions designs as FLUKE do not design thermal cameras.2. There are other thermal cameras that have been introduced since the E4 was released but none that offer the ‘hack’ that permits the significant improvement in performance at no cost. The Ex series was a true ‘gift’ to us in this respect. With other cameras you still get what you paid for and no more.3. The Thermal Camera Dongles are a path into thermal imaging at decent resolution and at relatively affordable prices. The cost of the image processing system, its power and display are removed from the BoM as the users mobile phone is used for that tasking. Be warned though, dongle style cameras are not everyone’s ‘cup of tea’ and performance can be very dependant upon the power of the mobile phones processor. Temperature measurement accuracy and range can also be very varied across this market segment. I am not a fan of the dongle style cameras as I like my tools to be an ‘all in one’ solution not vulnerable to the idiosyncrasies of symbiotic relationships with varied hosts and the availability of the required software to make it all work in harmony.4. You comment that the Ex series is an old design. In the World of thermal imaging it is fair to say that development has been occurring at a good pace in recent years but when it comes to the microbolometer arrays, the pace of development is relatively pedestrian. Often Imaging array dies are just offered in different packaging and performance remains unchanged in most respects. Development in the area of lenses is pretty static now that Chalcogenide IR Glass production has been perfected. The data processing electronics in ‘all in one’ camera designs may be chosen from a broad range of current powerful processors or ‘system in a chip’ dedicated video processors. This is an area where manufacturers decide how much they need to spend for the desired performance though. They will not necessarily use the latest and greatest chipsets if older chipsets can do the same task well enough and at lower cost. Older model ARM chipsets are still being used in new release thermal cameras as they meet the requirement and can be a low cost on the BoM. The image processing software is an area that will be ever developing at the sharp end of thermal imaging equipment. Static and dynamic noise reduction techniques married to lower noise microbolometer/ROIC packages will strive to produce low noise imagery approaching that of cooled. Ameras. This is done using ever improving noise reduction algorithms but there can be drawbacks to such image processing that should be understood. Lower budget thermal cameras will likely use well proven, commonly available noise reduction algorithms and techniques. They are not high performance imaging systems so will not spend the research time developing cutting edge noise reduction systems. Some cameras use other manufactures cores so the noise figure of the camera is dictated mostly by the cores performance but can be made worse by poor back end design ! SEEK Thermal cores are now common in 3rd Party cameras and the noise levels of these cores is relatively high compared to a well designed Core that uses a ULIS microbolometer. The Chinese manufacturers are churning out all manner of thermal cameras now. Some use SEEK Thermal or ULIS imaging arrays whilst others are opting for ‘home -grown’ imaging arrays and cores. The Chinese Thermal Camera market is a veritable minefield fir the unwary buyer...... you get what you pay for with thermal imaging but you can get an awful lot less if you buy the wrong ‘cheap’ thermal camera ! The specifications provided can be incomplete or a work of fiction.The Ex series was a solid, well thought out, design in 2013 and it remains so today. Hence why FLIR can still sell these ‘old’ designs. Quite simply, they deliver on their promises and in our case, they deliver far more than FLIR ever intended or wanted of the series ! Unlike the common consumer marketplace electronics, the churn in thermal camera models is glacial and not normally ‘fashion’ driven like a mobile phone etc. The longevity of a thermal cameras availability from a manufacturer often leads to firmware bugs being discovered and addressed before the model becomes obsolete. It also leads to the customer base growing quite large and experimenters investing their time in tweaks, upgrades and hacksThis is why the E4 remains upgradable in 2020 despite FLIR’s efforts to prevent such.Hope this helpsFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 12:36:36 am
content: Oh, and a used FLIR Exx series is the next upgrade step from an Ex series camera. Some users would benefit from going straight to a used E40 and upgrading it to E60+ specification. The Exx series trumps the Ex series in all respects. As I said, you get what you pay for and buying a decent used thermal camera can offer a huge saving whilst delivering otherwise unaffordable performanceFraser

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 03:40:53 am
content: Thanks Fraser!!!There is a 2ndhand E4 I can get locally which is cheaper than new.It looks to be in great condition but is there anything important that i should check?I don't believe it has been hacked yet. The seller is selling it as 80x60.He says the model is E63900

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 01:10:56 pm
content: As long as it is working and displays a decent thermal image without dead pixels evident, you should be fine with a used camera. These cameras are well protected in their rubber ‘coat’ so relatively robust. Check the screen plastic fir serious scratching as it is soft and easily scratched. Make sure the camera can save images to its internal flash memory. That is about it for an E4.It is good that it is in standard configuration as you will be dealing with a Virgin unit and will be able to back-up the file system before upgrade. You will also know exactly what has been done during the upgrade and so avoid a possible botched upgrade scenario. Remember that a used camera does not have a warranty however.Fraser

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2020, 11:51:06 pm
content: Thanks.I heard back from the seller and he saysModel no is E41.1L and running software 1.22.0Which means it's like 6 years old. hm..

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2020, 11:43:52 am
content: What is your concern about it being 6 years old ? Mine is from 2013 and still like new. These cameras are reliable and use quality components so do not get too concerned about age. In fact it would have been an even better buy if a few months older and running firmware V1.19 as that still contains the Service MenuYour decision of course.Fraser