Choosing a scope for hobby lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Dalek
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 07:25:25 am
content: Hi, I'm new to the forum but have been reading for weeks spinning up on scopes. Last time I used Tek scope was in the mid to late '70s as an EE while designing software for component level diagnostics of inertial navigation systems. I caught the bug and digressed from hardware to software development. Now I've come full circle and getting back into electronics.I'm building a simple "lab" for designing/building/repairing amateur radio gear, audio gear and experimenting with robotics. A scope is on my list. Reading the threads, most are advocating a DSO. For now my short list is:1) Tek 7613 with 7B92A (dual time base), 7A26 (dual trace amp), 7A22 (differential amp)2) Tek 4683) Tek 2230 with probes, cables, manuals4) Tek 453All are available locally which is a bonus not having to pay shipping. The 453 is $40CAN and very simple and basic. The other scopes are $70-$110CAN and falls within my $200 budget. I'm leaning towards the 7613 only because I can upgrade the scope with other plugins, and relatively easy to repair. The 468 would be my 2nd choice with the 2230 as last since this would be the most challenging to repair. However, I do like the compact form factor and layout of the 2230. All are in good working condition.I would like very much your opinion and suggestions of my short list.Thanks,VE3EIB

author: larry42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 08:34:16 am
content: None of those are what ppl would call "DSO" nowadays. Having said that, for audio and amateur radio, you don't need any storage, robotics might need storage if you're going to decode digital busses, for that latter, a modern low cost DSO (e.g. Rigol, HP, Hameg HMO etc) with 100kpts+ of memory is way more convenient.You might want to consider a low cost 50-100MHz 2 ch analog scope now (like a Tek of some kind), then add a newer "real" DSO later as your requirements change.73 de M1CCO

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 12:17:44 pm
content: I think the first scope I used on the job (back in 1981) was a Tek 465. The first scope I ever bought for myself was an ebay 475a. But for digital stuff I found I needed storage. I tried a Tek 2430A, but it didn't sample fast enough (100 MSa/s). I sold it and got a TDS380 (400 MHz & 2 GSa/s, 1 Kpts), and that is great for looking at reasonably fast rise-time waveforms. I actually paid less for the TDS380 a few years ago than I did for the 475a (which I still use sometimes). If I had a lot of serial bus decoding to do, or something like that, then I would need much deeper memory.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 01:21:54 pm
content: I'd choose the 2230. I've had one for over 10 years and it always served me well. It is build in a compact way but the main board is hinged so you can turn it away to get to the other parts. Another advantage the 2230 has is that it has 4kpts memory which is handy to look at I2C and SPI busses.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 02:11:45 pm
content: You might want to consider two scopes. I use a combination of a vintage Tek 465 analog scope and a Rigol DS1102E DS. Works pretty well for my uses. I use the 465 for circuit tracing, finding noise and distortion, etc. and use the DS1102E for instant waveform measurements. Down the road I'll probably upgrade the Rigol to the 2000 series but considering I purchased both for under $500 total I'm very happy with the combination.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 02:46:03 pm
content: The 468 is kind of an odd beast. It's a 100 MHz 2 channel analog scope with a little digital storage added in. The DSO portion is only good to 10MHz with a max 25 MS/s rate. I think it can store 512 samples. So as a DSO it's not much good unless you're looking at pretty slow one time events. The analog side is pretty much like a 465, the digital side is fairly complex.The 453 is all discrete and pretty solid. Early ones used nuvistors in the front end, later ones went to FETs; I think it's possible to replace the nuvistor with an MPF102. 50MHz 2 channel scope with delayed sweep. A good basic scope, but a little slow. I've had one on my bench for years. Possibly the only part getting hard to find is the tunnel diodes used in the trigger, but that is not a real concern (yet). They don't go bad often. Screen is a little small unless you get the 453A.The 7613 is a variable persistence storage mainframe rated at 100MHz. The 7000 series are pretty handy, you can get all kind of interesting plugins including spectrum analyzers, curve tracers, differential amps, etc. One nice thing about the 7000 series is if a plugin goes bad, just buy another one, they are pretty cheap these days. I don't know if that one has a SMPS, but if it fails and goes into 'tick mode', it's a major pain to fix.The 2230 is the most modern of the bunch. It's a 2 channel 100 MHz analog scope with a DSO options and measurement cursors. The DSO option is a bit like the 468 - it has a max sample rate of 20MS/s but a 4K buffer. Pretty reliable, but sometimes they have problems with the power supply.My order of preference: 2230, 7613, 468, 453.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 03:53:18 pm
content: By your callsign I can see you are in Canada. Please, put your flag right there <-- so we know where you are.Since you are close to the US, a Tek 7000 series is a pretty sweet deal. I really like you can just plug modules to it and some of these are pretty unique. You can turn the mainframe into a spectrum analyser with the correct plug in. All kinds of modules and you can expand the mainframe gradually.Here's a good resource:http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Main_PageI wanted to buy something from the 2000 series like a 2225, but they can't get a lot of deals as you can with the 7000 mainframes. Weight was an important consideration for me as I have to get stuff on a plane for it to arrive reasonably fast and easy on customs. The 2000 series scopes weight anything from 11 lb. up to 20lb. If it has storage, 4 channels, and/or accessories it's going to weight a bit more, up to 25lb.And, by the way, nice username

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:06:31 pm
content: I have two Tek 22XX series (a 2225 and a 2245A) and they are both great. If you buy local and don't pay over the top then they are great general purpose scopes. 468 series always goes for bigger money for some reason.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on June 05, 2013, 04:06:31 pmProbably it has the word "digital" on it ?

author: Dalek
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:47:54 pm
content: Thanks for the feedback. All informative. The 2 scope idea is a good one. One now to get me started and gain experience, and a more advanced DSO as my requiremts grow for the digital world of robotics. Another advantage with this option is the fact that DSO will most likely be lower in cost in the future or at the least have more or advanced features for the same cost.I've narrowed it down to the 7613 and 2230. While the 2230 is a newer model and has a smaller footprint, and a limited DSO funtionallity, I'm still leaning to the 7613. Yes, it's an older model but that may be to my advantage if I need to repair it. Plus the availability of plugins make this a very versitile scope. A spectrum analyser plugin would be a very handy feature for radio work. I will be looking at these today to spin the knobs, as it were.Regards,Nick - VE3EIB

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2013, 08:45:15 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on June 05, 2013, 02:11:45 pmAgreed. I also use a 465 and I use a Tek TDS2012 in a similar way to yourself.For me a scope should be small and portable and not too heavy and not too noisy (from fans). The 465 just about meets these requirements and is a lovely scope to use. The TDS2012 is nice and small and light but isn't really that good as a digital scope compared to the modern offerings.I would avoid all the old school Tek scopes with plug ins because they take up too much room. I'm currently looking to upgrade the TDS2012 and I want something powerful but I don't want something too big or noisy or power hungry.The big plus point of the TDS2012 (or your Rigol) is they can be picked up easily and placed anywhere convenient because they occupy such a small footprint and can offer decent (but not spectacular) performance

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2013, 06:06:50 am
content: A 7613 isn't really that large.----A 545B is big,a 524AD even bigger!!My 7613 is sitting alongside a Compaq XP tower PC,& the PC "towers"over it!;DI probably wouldn't go much larger,although some of the high performance 7000 mainframes,which are wider,are very nice indeed.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2013, 12:18:35 pm
content: Yes but isn't it something like 60cm deep and 16kg and 200W power consumption? I suppose it's OK if you only plan to use it in one place and you have the space but the little TDS2012 weighs about 2kg (with 10W power?) and can be carried around the house as easily as a portable radio. One of its strengths is you can place it anywhere close to the work area and position the display for the easiest viewing and it is silent in operation.For the tasks it can't do well, eg looking at noise or modulated RF waveforms I use the 465 and it is reasonably portable and can be moved around the work area as required. It's main niggles are the bigger size, weight and higher power consumption and the slight fan noise it produces.

author: Dalek
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2013, 04:53:41 pm
content: My list now has a 2232 on it. Can't find a lot on this model. How does it compare to the 2230?Thanks,VE3EIB

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2013, 03:26:48 pm
content: Service manual available on Boat Anchor Manual site.If I'm reading this right it can sample at up to 100 MS/s, and has a 100 MHz front end. It can store up to 4K points total (i.e. 2K pts per channel if both are in use).