How to get a job as an electronic engineer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:02:58 pm
content: Hi folks;Well I can't get JOBI have recently graduated electronics engineering and physics. I've designed a lot of DIY projects such as an Analog IC (not just a simulation 50 mos). I've been writing programs with C++ since i was 12. I've designed a processor for a specific application (FPGA) and lots of power electronic circuit, analog instrumentation stuff. I 've experience in embedded linuxSo, I can't get f****** job.What should I do ? What is your advice ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:08:17 pm
content: What country & city are you in?Keep trying...

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:12:33 pm
content: I'm in Turkey, Istanbul

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 12:16:15 pm
content: A little more information would be helpful. Where did you graduate from, and what jobs have you applied for?Are you getting interviews, or being rejected before that stage? It might be worth posting your CV so we can take a look.It sounds as though you have some good experience, and personally I place a lot of value on experience gained outside of a degree course. It shows genuine interest and enthusiasm for the subject which a lot of people don't have. If you can help that come across at interview, it should definitely work in your favour.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 01:17:30 pm
content: Thank you for support.I'll translate my cv to english and put it in here.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:06:29 pm
content: I don't have much experience in employment advice area, so you should definitely take this with a (huge) grain of salt, but it seems to me that kind people who want to help you need to (as we say it in my language) pull words from your mouth with pliers.You told us why you think you'd be proficient, but what you haven't told us is why you'd think that companies you applied for a job would think you're proficient enough to do the job.You haven't told us what type of positions you applied for and what type of companies you applied for. You haven't told us anything about what type of impressions you think you left during interview (and we don't know if you even got to the interview phase and if you did, to which sub-phase you got to).Sometimes hiring patterns may look extremely strange to outsiders. For example some agencies in my country are basically family run businesses and when they're hiring, they already have candidate in mind before process even starts, so you basically need not apply. Some other companies only hire graduates from certain universities and that becomes visible only after you analyze their employees for a while.Some companies may want a level of "focus" from their candidates. For example I've been a witness to analyses of CVs for a marketing position in a company. A candidate finished engineering related secondary school and then moved on to undergraduate economics studies, but not in marketing before finishing marketing masters. That was judges as too unfocused. Seeing you finished both physics and electronics engineering, some people may think that you're a jack of all trades and master of none. Back to the company example: Another candidate's problem was that he didn't look "refined enough" even though he had needed experience. Sure, that type of job requires more people skills that engineering, but I wanted to use it as an example of non-obvious requirements.Since I'm talking about "people skills" how good are you with that? Do you fit with local expectations? Can you easily explain to others what you think? Some data about communication with companies would be welcome here. Once again, I'll mention two diplomas: to get them, probably means you're very smart. That can sometimes be a problem if it's some lower level manager that does the interviews. He might be intimidated by you! Also have you been "networking" with people in same position? What do other recent graduates from your schools say? Are they having problems finding a job as well? What are their experiences?You also mentioned that you're a recent graduate from an university, but you didn't write more about that. Are your grades good? In some areas some employers may pay more attention to grades than real experience. Opposite of what I wrote can happen as well. If you're too good, some companies may avoid you. Sometimes it may look like a better idea to hire an average Joe who will be happy with the job and work for years than a genius who will find the job bad and want to move on as soon as he learns the basics.One more thing I'd like to ask you if how long have you been looking for a job? Perhaps it just takes more time to find one than you expected. Are you aware of how things are going in your local jobs market? If you haven't already, try looking up some statistics and see how well you're going. It could be that the job marker got saturated quickly by large amount of new graduates for example. One more thing that could happen is that companies got used to an "employer's market" where they could pick right candidate from a sea of very experienced candidates and the sea quickly drained up without the companies noticing it. That happened in few areas in my country and for a while nobody could get hired until the companies realized that they can't hire a guy with decades of work experience for a beginner's salary.As I said, I don't have much experience in looking for a job, but keep in mind that the more information you provide, the greater are the chances that someone could give you helpful comments.Finally I wish you good luck in your search for a job!

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:14:42 pm
content: In Turkey there are large household electronics manufacturers like Arcelik (Ardo), Vestel...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:36:11 pm
content: There's a lot of good stuff here!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^With regard to your CV, one of the things I'd normally check - but (sadly) can't do if the original isn't in English - is the quality of the spelling and grammar.I know it's an emotive subject, and plenty of people will argue with me, but personally I'd found a very strong correlation between the quality of written English in a candidate's CV and how they perform technically at interview. If someone has a keen eye for detail, and getting things correct comes naturally to them, it manifests itself in the quality of their writing.Even if there wasn't such a link, one thing which I've had to explain to a few candidates is that it's not necessarily what they can do that matters - it's what they can explain to other people that they've done. There's no point in doing all manner of clever things if you can't clearly explain and record what they are, and that's another reason why I look so closely at the quality of their CV.If you're getting interviews, then chances are your CV is fine... it's getting you through the door, and that's what it's there for. That's why we need to know a bit more about where your job search is going wrong.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on November 24, 2013, 08:36:11 pmAnd of course if you are writing in a language you don't speak natively, it is essential to get a native speaker to proof-read it.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 08:59:59 pm
content: Try networking and asking people. Many jobs are filled with out ever being advertised.If sending in your resume is not helping try walking into the door of the building and talking to an HR person (that is often easier said then done).Good luck

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2013, 09:45:33 pm
content: Oh god please whatever you do don't work for Vestel. I fix so much of that junk, it's crazy how bad it is. Cost cut everywhere. Unless, that is, you know how to fix that.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 08:45:54 am
content: I've read hundreds, or possibly thousands of grad CVs over the years, at times in a recruiting phase I'd have them piled 50cm (that's 18") high on the desk. To get an interview then your CV needs to stand out. Crisp, clear and concise on no more than two pages of A4. If you're a grad then you won't have much good experience so I want to know what option courses you've taken and what final year project you did and how it turned out. I also want to know a little about you, but only a short paragraph with facts, so mentining being a member of the university hangliding club is good, telling me that you are a focused team player just tells me that you've nothing more interesting to write about yourself than reusing stale cliches.Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 24, 2013, 08:54:18 pmI remember a discussion I had over a CV. I refused to interview a bloke and my boss wanted to know why as he thought the CV was ok. I pointed out that I didn't want anyone that used the word "eclectic" on a CV when he clearly didn't know what it meant. Such little things are the difference between getting an interview and not.If you are getting interviews then the CV isn't the problem but your interview technique, but I'll leave that for another time.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 12:11:19 pm
content: Thank you everyone. I have been looking for a job for two months (1.5 to be precise)I've applied 20 jobs and got only 4 interviews. My GPA is 91/100With your guidance, I dediced to re-write my CV.

author: sprocket
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 02:02:45 pm
content: A well written CV and job application is alpha and omega when you are in competition with loads of other dudes with similar qualifications that you have. You have to stand out, be precise and concise, you have to remember the guy reading your application probably have a stack of 200 applications on his desk waiting to get sorted, so don't waste his time either.So basically what you need to do on the first couple of pages of your application is to make sure your application don't get trashed in the first sorting. There are many ways to do this, but tell a little about your self, perhaps add a picture, in doing that, the guy doing the hiring will instantly relate to you and not toss your application in the bin. If you are doing volunteering work in the local sports club or what ever you are doing make sure you add that as well, tells a lot about a person what he does in his spare time. You might do a little research on the company you want to join so the application you have sent don't look like a copy pate application you could have sent to a hundred other companies, it shows interest. Calling the guy might be an idea too, but you have to be careful doing that, he will get very grumpy after 200 random guys calling about a job, asking the same questions. So if you do call him, make sure you have relevant questions.All the in depth detail stuff about your qualifications and the stuff you have made is secondary in the first sorting. All the fancy details is in my experience obviously important, but only really matters when the HR starts to figure out who he wants to call in for interviews.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 02:36:51 pm
content: Build a social network, which you should already have done in university but hey it is never to late to start.Ask friends/family if they know someone inside electronic companies you are interested in, then try to contact and just ask to see what kind of job he's doing and what the company does. Don't ask directly for a job (which is not done) but at least get to know some people inside and more important let them know you!Be a bit more pro-active if the passive way does not work for you. But then that is the western european style, I have no clue what the customs in Turkey areMaybe you should also try companies outside Turkey

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 09:03:51 pm
content: Another one here (B.Sc EE). 5 months and counting.There is a bunch of details adding up making it a hard time for me.Not finishing in time.Not graduating from one of the top schools.Close to no working experience at all.Shrinking job market.Increasing number of graduates.Hard to get an apartment in the bigger cities where most of the jobs are."They can't really get through to me and see my personality" ?No idea on this one.Maybe this is not the right path for me. Unfortunately there is a hard time getting any kind of job right now.Confidence is pretty low right now.

author: Tris20
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 09:16:19 pm
content: How many have you applied for? According to "UK 300"( see guardianuk300.com), of the Uk engineering students surveyed, 11% have been searching for 3 months, 38% for 3-5 months, 33% for 6-8 months and the rest have been longer. Also, average job applications made is around 26. However, it doesn't state what jobs these students are actually going into. I feel your pain though. Everything I see is asking for at least a 2.1 A lot of jobs I see are asking for this even a few years after you've graduated as well, so just one or two bad exams and you're missing out on a lot of job opportunities, regardless of whether or not you've picked up the knowledge since.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 09:55:58 pm
content: If you want to get ahead of other applicants: build circuits in your spare time to broaden your horizon. Trade your X-box, Playstation, TV, etc for a soldering iron and a scope.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 07:30:40 am
content: Everybody told me "be honest in the interviews". I belive that's a terrible idea.Let me give you an exampleSome guy: How long would you expect to work for us if hired ?Me: As long as we have mutual benefit.- What is that ?- You need enginners and i welcome (salary) cheque.At that point my buddy told me that is a very bad response. In fact that's blunt truth because I know well that if I become a liability, the will fire me instantly.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 07:56:55 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on November 28, 2013, 07:30:40 amThere is a difference between truth and tact that is essential to learn.

author: ah ffs
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 08:46:54 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on November 28, 2013, 07:30:40 amA no BS response. I like it but certainly not what HR want to hear.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 09:10:47 am
content: Quote

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 09:22:14 am
content: It's a great response to share with a few mates *after* you've been hired, but however honest you'd like to be, it's really not what an interviewer wants to hear. They want to feel like they're in the position of power, where they'll be able to make the decision as to how long you actually end up working for the company (even if that's a total illusion and you're free to walk out any time you get a better offer).IMHO you should give them some credit. If they're asking you how long you'd work for them, it's suggesting that they're planning to keep you on for a long time, and that's a good thing. Tell them what you'd *like* to do. Maybe say "for as long as the work remains challenging and allows me to develop as an engineer", or "at least a few years, with a view to moving up into engineering management as the team grows".But not "for as long as I need your money". Seriously

author: ah ffs
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 11:08:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 24, 2013, 12:08:17 pmFor how long though? How long can you have been unemployed or work in an unrelated industry before you will no longer be considered by any engineering company and end up with a wasted degree?Quote from: KJDS on November 25, 2013, 08:45:54 amYou wrote off a candidate for a single word in their resume? That's a bit strong isn't it?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 11:12:40 am
content: Quote from: ah ffs on November 28, 2013, 11:08:36 amWhen you've got a couple of hundred CVs with perhaps twenty useful candidates in them, it gets to the point where you need to whittle it down to a number suitable to interview. I don't want to interview more than five for each position open, so need to lose fifteen. On such small things major decisions are made.

author: ah ffs
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 12:07:19 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on November 28, 2013, 11:12:40 amFair call. Just seems like a trivial reason to disqualify someone. Especially considering your boss deemed them OK.Think I'll go have another look at my resume. There's probably a heap a words giving recruiters the sh*ts.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 04:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: ah ffs on November 28, 2013, 12:07:19 pmIt some times works the other way around also. We have brought people in for an interview just because we liked a specific word (or their email address) from their resume.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 05:04:53 pm
content: Its difficult to vet people just from their resumes. I've worked with people who knew shit about programming and still got hired as a programmer.Since then I introduced tests so people can at least show they have actual knowledge.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 09:40:47 pm
content: @AndyC_772: I have another interview tomorrow. I'll use your valuable advices. Thank you.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 10:05:41 pm
content: Good luck

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2013, 11:47:17 am
content: Quote from: Icarus on November 28, 2013, 09:40:47 pmTry to make a detailed list of things they asked you and how you responded and post it so we can analyze it.We already had the honesty example. Perhaps there's something more that we've missed.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2013, 12:34:32 pm
content: Things I'm looking for when interviewing graduates.EnthusiasmA sense of humourAn understanding of basic electronic principalsA ability to learnFail on those top two and I don't care if you have the potential to be a genius. No manager wants to manage a prima donna. It's something tolerable when the prima donna is already experienced and capable of bringing a great deal to the table, because by that stage they'll be mostly working on their own, but for a grad role you need to show you can contribute.In any team project, some of the tasks are the equivalent of cleaning the toilet. As someone that's worked as a contractor for the last decade I'd done my share of them but they are equally likely to end up with a new graduate. If an interviewee can't show enthusiasm about dealing with everything they will have to undertake, and can't demonstrate a sense of humour especially when things go wrong then I don't want them on the team.As far as the technical side goes, what is really important is not what the answers are but how they are answered. If you don't know something then say so, don't procrastinate or prevaricate and whatever you do don't bullshit. Crisp, clear and concise answers are all that are needed. If a question is asked which you know a lot about, cover the basics and then ask if they want more detail. Don't spend five minutes explaining one leaf on one tree when they ask you the shape of the forest.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 08:11:30 pm
content: Folks, finally I've got a job as a design engineerEveryone who show me guidence and support, Thank you very much.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 08:31:32 pm
content: Excellent news, well done

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 07:32:27 pm
content: Alright, i managed to get a short internship at a hospitals technical division! Hopefully it will lead to something more permanent.

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 01:25:50 pm
content: Hi guys,I have a job now at an electronic manufacturing services company. It is a trial employment.Not strictly as an engineer, but it is interesting anyways.Good times, hopefully they will last.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 01:44:42 pm
content: Quote from: Icarus on November 28, 2013, 07:30:40 amIt really does depend on who you're talking to.If it's a manager/HR person you need to avoid the absolute truth and instead say what they expect to hear, or at least filter your responses to be more "business like*.But if you're speaking to an engineer, or someone more hands-on, then the truth will usually be better received than business jargon.I'm oversimplifying it a little, other factors come into it and you have to make a judgement call on which way you should go.There's ways to "phrase" the truth so you don't seem like a dick.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 02:01:30 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on April 18, 2014, 01:44:42 pmThere is a difference between truth and tact. It may be true that the woman interviewing you is ugly, and it may be that being truthful is good, but. ...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 02:19:39 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on April 18, 2014, 02:01:30 pmYep, tact comes into it, but i cant think of any real situation where a woman interviewing you would expect you to make comments on her looks.If she actually did come out and ask "do you find me hot or ugly" then it's anyone's guess what reply she would consider the "right" one.

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 03:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: BBQ on April 18, 2014, 01:25:50 pmBest wishes bro.Quote from: Psi on April 18, 2014, 01:44:42 pmI'll follow those guide lines. I belive manipulating human behaviour is much harder than manipulating electron.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 05:56:43 pm
content: Absolutely right! Electrons behave according to physical laws which are both known (at least well enough for most current practical purposes) and, more importantly, consistent. People do not.Also, they're all the same. Whatever rules hold for one electron also apply to all the others you're likely to encounter.You won't ever come across an electron which is a jerk, or one which actively dislikes you.There's probably a whole thread in its own right here...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 11:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on November 29, 2013, 12:34:32 pmI will never hire someone who has an arrogant "know-all" disposition. I have worked with a few of these over the years. They are vexations to the spirit and it is a joy when they leave. Electronic engineers and embedded programming has more than their fair share of these social misfits.Enthusiasm is top of the list. One volunteer is worth ten conscripts. The best tend to be those who were brought up with a screw driver in their hand, not those who for cultural reasons were brought up with servants and studied engineering because that was what was expected of them. I always ask them why they got into engineering and what did they enjoy doing as a child. "Pulling things apart and working out how they worked" ranks high. Doing electronics, embedded programming or mechanical design work at home ranks VERY high.I also test engineer's knowledge and IQ. I have learnt not to trust anyone I don't know. I usually give them a quick IQ test to determine there level of logical reasoning. I learnt a lesson years ago when I was party to hiring a Star Trek fanatic who faked his degree and who did not even know what our mains voltage was.The ability to learn generally comes with the degree. I look for those who LISTEN to ideas of others. No-one, including ex-military personnel, knows everything.Those who can sacrifice their own behaviour for the sake of the team is important. That is, if we have coding or PCB design standards, they should be adhered to.On the social scale, it is good to work with those who like to have a bit a fun - a bit of personality. Those who think outside themselves.If the applicant is a ham radio operator, that is a plus because that proves they volunteers rather than conscripts and probably have some social skills as well.If you fit all this, you won't have a problem getting a job as an engineer.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 03:53:18 am
content: Funny list. I'd hire the opposite.Enthusiasm? A dangerous thing. Since you used so many military comparisons, enthusiasm kills people. I prefer people who think first. Never volunteer if you want to live. And boy, do people go on my tits who, after a hard working week, enthusiastically want a meeting a 5:30 pm on Friday to enthusiastically discuss some nitty gritty detail the world doesn't care about, instead of wrapping their shit up and go home.Hams? Yeah, only if I want to have people ho wstuck in the past, with that token showcase project at home. You know, that project full of cobwebs which they intend to finish since 25 years, but didn't because they were busy honing their "social" skills by exchanging small numbers with people all over the world all night and meeting in clubs where they tell each other how great the past was and that they are god's gift to the electronics world.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 04:33:08 am
content: QuoteI agree with all these.My first post graduation technical job was unpaid volunteering at a local community radio station. After a few months I managed to find some paid work, partly due to the volunteer role.Soon after I managed to get my "volunteer" colleague a job at my new company.Whatever you do you cant just sit at home posting off resumes, you need to keep learning at the bare minimum.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 05:19:31 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on April 19, 2014, 03:53:18 amAnd somehow that's worse than being the resident Moray Eel on an Electronics Forum?Seriously though,BAW,don't ever stop being a Curmudgeon---that's your peculiar charm!

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 06:15:56 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on April 19, 2014, 03:53:18 amEveryone is entitled to their opinion.But some of the most up-to-date smart people I know happen to be ham radio operators. Many engineering graduates today would not know how a $10 K-mart AM radio worked, and know stuff all about transmission line theory and RF. To many, FM radio just works - no idea how a Foster Seeley discriminator works, let alone ever heard of it. I use RF in my job designing medical electronic products that use Bluetooth and other stuff.Not all of us live in the past. Most electronics true believers live for electronics in the past, the present and the future. And we never stop learning.