Canon 5D Mark II HD Video Documentary – Behind the Scenes - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ferroto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 05:28:25 pm
content: That setup was pretty damn impressive. I'm a bit of a photography nut and Canon fanboy myself.I'm considering getting one of thesehttp://www.adorama.com/ICADRT2I.htmlI've used SLR's from Canon before but this is the first digital SLR I've considered buying. Canon has used the same lens system since 1987, so I can reuse all my old lenses.Can't wait to see the documentary.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 08:42:52 pm
content: what this got to do with electronics? the art/state of electronics? heck no! this is camera/videography we talking about. or..... equipments poison! i'd rather call this the art of electronics:that guy is a photography super nuts! any pro videographer i've seen/read will not use a camera to make a video... try to handheld it and take some videos and see whats the outcome. but i dont say he cant do, time and era is changing. light is the main secret here, not that state of electronics 5D Mk2.ferroto: go canon!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 09:25:03 pm
content: what the hell are you on about ?SLR's never used to even have filming functionalities, now that an electronic shutter can be incorporrated into an image sensor without noise increase and despite the fact that the camera has a mechanical shutter still and video camera's will inevitable merge, and why not !

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 09:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 08:42:52 pmTry to find a video camera with a 36x24mm sensor for $3k

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 09:43:37 pm
content: SKR quality film, well thats something I won't turn down, although as the chip heats up it will get noisier, thats why point and shoot camera's are crap because the run the sendor all the time having no optical view finder

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 09:46:39 pm
content: My friend shoot this music video with his Canon 5D MkII camera:That is GREAT camera for making HD videos and I really miss video feature on older DSLR cameras... (I have 'old' Canon 5D)...

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 09:49:06 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 08:42:52 pmThe times, they are a-changing; the season finale of House was shot entirely on the 5D Mk II, so I guess at least some of the professionals are quite happy to use a DSLR for real video work now!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 10:58:30 pm
content: Quote from: baljemmett on July 24, 2010, 09:49:06 pmYes indeed.The film industry is going nuts over the 5D MkII.It really is possible to shoot a feature movie with one of these.Check out Karl's work on the Canon & HP TV ads, very impressive stuff indeed:http://www.karlvonmoller.com/blog/Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 24, 2010, 09:34:27 pmso what? my xl1s is 1/3" sensor 270K pixels capable of 720x480 vidz, and that $3k sensor is 22MPixels. if the guy is really into the state of EE, why dont he finds a way to create a 5616x3744 vidz. then thats art, thats state! if i want to do a HD documentary, i can as well use the $1K sony or canon camcorder.surely they can put that FF sensor on a shoulder mount digital betacam and put the price to millions, but NO! for now, its just in your dream, they are not going to do that... why? because they are sucks and the engineers up there are doing nothing but licking their management dickhead!now ok people. CALM DOWN! i'm not pushing anything, just my opinion OK? RELAX! COOL! Enjoy the Show. If you are happy about it, go for it! Cheers!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 08:42:52 pmKarl is a professional videoographer. Seen than Canon ads on TV, Karl is the one who directed and shot them!What has this got to do with electronics? The documentary IS about the electronics industry, and I thought some people might like to see some behind the scenes footage about the rig used to shoot it.Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:36:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2010, 10:58:30 pmimpressive indeed! i'm not questioning his skills in photography or videography. his skills is well above mine. but 1st, he intrudes into EEVBlog (with Dave's permission of course!) and showing his super duper gears (price included, well again, Dave's asking)... ok, thats still ok, totally find. but what i dont really agree is that his word of "state of electronics". heck, the real electronics could have achieve more than that!if that video comes out in Photog/Vids forum without including the "electronics" word... then i will be

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 11:21:02 pmIt's not about resolution but about chip size! As a photographer you should know about DOF and other photographic effects which are nearly impossible to achieve with that small 1/3" (or similar) camcorder sensors.

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:41:18 pm
content: Dave, you've got some work to catch with Karl's skillsJust viewed his Beekeeper vid from his blog - great stuff. "We've got the mod cons - we have electricity down the back" LOL.As for his video bit at the end of you own Vblog it felt a bit dark, but perhaps I'm used to your own videos which light up well in the background.But then again I suppose he is better at centering the audience's focus on the main subject, and the lighting achieves that by "blurring" the background "noise"

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:49:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 24, 2010, 11:29:55 pmis he using the 5D during the shooting? he is a professional videographer for christ sake! he should have a XL H1A or something.well ok, maybe i've unintentionally accused him as a "super nuts" well, i'm sorry, i take my word back. he is not a "super nuts" he is a professional.but.. maaaaybee, he is resembling the act ofother"super nuts" and "equipments maniacs" out there, just in more professional way of presentation....is that ok? is that right? correct me if i'm wrong ok?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2010, 11:53:35 pm
content: Quote from: flolic on July 24, 2010, 11:41:04 pmi think u have a misunderstanding there... DOF/bokeh/perpective effect are the function of lens aperture and focal length only. the function of chip size will equates to noise level, dynamic range, resolution.... and crop factor i think.my XL1S is an old a third inch sensor, but trust me! $1K or even larger sensor "handycam" cannot achieve the effect that it can get.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:00:47 am
content: Quote from: RayJones on July 24, 2010, 11:41:18 pmthats the art of photography! (and i said, not the art of electronics). dont worry! u'll get used to it.photographers hate crowded and "sharp" background, such as....... bunch of multimeters.... osciloscopes... etc.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:19:14 am
content: and to cool you people down... yea! i have to agree, he got the top of the line gears. even for the mere lens hood is... what again? thousand?thats the state of management!... oppppps... SORRY! not again!anyway, why the video doesnt have the download link?

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:22:38 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 11:53:35 pmYes, you are totally right on thatBut show me the lens for that small format sensor that can give cinematic like DOF and bokeh as Canon's 70-200 f2.8 L? Or 135mm f2 L? Or go as wide as Sigma 12-24mm lens on FF 5D body?About noise you mentioned, 5D MkII is so free of noise in low light video that I still can't believe it's possible...

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:25:26 am
content: Shafri,I think you are getting a bit too carried away with this particular blog episode.It was obvious to me that Dave knows Karl through some prior association, and by the by Karl offered to show Dave his gear, and have a play in Dave's shed/lab.Karl is FILMING, as another project, the Art of Electronics. This Vblog was not about the art of electronics.At the end of the day, it came across to me as a pair of mates sharing their wares in Dave's shed. Not all that different to Dave visiting his mate and blowing up DMMs with unrealistic voltages.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 11:53:35 pmPerspective is only a function of the subject distance, so the sensor doesn't matter. Bokeh is mainly a function of the lens. But DOF does depend on sensor size. The DOF is afunction of the subject distance, focal length, a few lens parameters like pupil magnification and exit pupil diameter, and the circle of confusion. The circle of confusion is the largest blur spot on the sensor/film that the eye considers sharp from the viewing distance. For printed images, people often use something like the sensor diagonal / 1500 (actual value depends on enlargement, viewing distance, human vision). The sensor diagonal obviously depends on the sensor size. The DOF of a camera with a 43mm diagonal (36x24mm) is the same as the DOF of a 1/3rd inch sensor (7.21mm diagonal according to Wikipedia) with the aperture value about six times lower (for symmetrical lenses or subject distance >> focal length). So the 5DII at f/16 has the same DOF as your XL1S at f/2.8.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:53:38 am
content: Quote from: RayJones on July 24, 2010, 11:41:18 pmI don't dare even try!QuoteCorrect. The darkness and highlighting of the main subject was deliberate.Also, the test video (and sound) has not been corrected in any way, Karl said there is a lot of editing work left to do in terms to tweaking the image to match what he wants and integrate it with the other footage from the other interviews.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:00:39 am
content: Quote from: RayJones on July 25, 2010, 12:25:26 amKarl has actually been watching the blog for a long time. He is shooting this documentary about the Australian electronics industry and wanted to include me as one of the interviewee's.He was kind enough to explain and let me show off the gear he was using to the EEVblog audience.He will also kindly let me upload the final documentary to show everyone.Shafri (being a pro photographer?) might find using a 5D MK2 for video a bit offensive, but there is no mistaking that it is taking the world of video by storm. Some very high end productions are being shot with it, and that's a fact.BTW, it also uses the 3rd party firmware tweaked for manual video control etc.Dave.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:10:55 am
content: Can you let us know whats going on with this so we might be able to watch it?Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2010, 01:00:39 am

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 am
content: Quote from: flolic on July 25, 2010, 12:22:38 amyea yea you are right, there is no video lens option for f1.2L AFAIK, gotta to associate with Steven Spielberg on that. but.... yea, put it on! put the 70-200 f2.8L on the 5D2 and try to make the shooting, it will be more fun for the handheld type of video. dont tell me about image stabilization feature, i know that. but.. i dont know, never tried that, maybe you didQuote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 amyou are right! but i only give you 66.666% mark for that 2 points. the exact answer should be:Perspective isonlya function of the subject distanceand focal length, so the sensor doesn't matter. = 100% mark answerQuote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 am80% mark... 100% = Bokeh is mainly a function of the lensaperture.Quote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 am0% mark... why? you copy-pasted other people's work!i probably give you some mark if you wrote...DOF does depend on distance between sensor plane to the focal point.let me tell you a secret, that nobody on earth do care to put it on the internet. COC is a subjective matter, it varies with each different observer, trust me, it cannot be counted in the engineering equation. just like colors or your favourite food.thats why you cannot see a value to the exact COC anywhere. canon, nikon, sony, etc etc camera makers got their own value to the COC specification.but pixel pitch and size does affect COC and its observer, but again... not the sensor size, its the size of a single photodetector on the sensor, there are twenty two millions of it.man! do i have to read all those theoritical? i'm a postgraduate pal! reading is not my type anymore! photography?! i'm tired already! plsss! not the 1/a=1/b+1/c?!Quote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 amyup yup! PRINTING! it has to do with resolution! thats why sensor size (pixel count actually) comes into equation/discussion. if you talk about resolution, then yes... 1/3" sensor lose!Quote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 amman! i dont understand what you are talking about! are you saying that when i put a 50mm f1.2L @f8 on the 5D2, the image will be similar effect to the same lens @f1.2 on the EOS 350D? (the smallest DSLR sensor)?Quote from: RayJones on July 25, 2010, 12:25:26 amWHAT! my mother's most miserable nightmare! i thought this is the only one! and i thought the Karl guy is talking electronic about his equipment! i'm skrewed!maybe i just a kicked out photography school student, not the tools and equipments school. and later i comes into the electronics school and swear by it.Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2010, 01:00:39 ami'm not a professional photographer, i'm a part timer and landscape hobbiest photographer. i'm a professional teacher! if you go to the real photog and videog community (i mean the real! not the wannabe!) it will be offensive to use a camera to catch video, much more offensive to videographers. some debates out there!but for me as a generalist, i dont really care, and really... thats not the main point.but from positive side... yes! this 5D2 is a winner, an option for a cheaper video equipment that can capture superb quality n resolution. it just simply cannot do all the real video equipment capable of doing.the real video "monster" is simply unaffordable!man, do i have to reply all those? stop it plssss. lets talk electronics!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 02:49:40 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 amReally?So the director that shot the final episode of House on a 5D MkII would be laughed at?George Lucas & Quentin Tarantino seem quite impressed by the sounds of it:http://hddslreader.com/2010/04/20/canon-5d-mark-ii-at-skywalker-ranch/http://philipbloom.net/2009/12/12/skywalker/See the film:http://vimeo.com/groups/canon5dmark2/videos/8100091I think you'd be very surprised at how seriously people are taking the capabilities of this camera for video.Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 02:58:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2010, 02:49:40 amby some fanboys maybe, but certainly not me, and i dont think they are supposed to. in the end, the final products that matters. its not the tools that make wonders, its the muscle and brain thats behind it.u give me that 5D2? i will shoot crappy vidz, just the same as always.all i'm saying is that... do you think that if you say "the 5D2 is the video everything!" to the guys with a XL1HA on his shoulder, he would be agree with you?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 03:09:58 am
content: its the same if i say my Uni-T UT71A DMM is everything that everyone should owns, it gives very precise reading, bla bla bla. whats with you and your Fluke 87-V?well.... just speculating their felling... whats with me? i dont own them.but as i said, the tools doesnt matter.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 03:16:51 am
content: and one more thing... the camera is not the only thing that you see, its just a small part, there a lot more behind the scene that makes the audience scream at the video, a lot lot more that cant be seen even if you find it to the wormhole, its in the brain of the maker. but in the end, the tools got the name and fame.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 03:32:02 am
content: i only copy pasted others people work, its up to you to do the translation...http://hddslreader.com/2010/04/20/canon-5d-mark-ii-at-skywalker-ranch/For a filmmaker with true cinematic aspirations, the end product must be technically capable of being screened according to Hollywood’s exacting standards. Apparently, if Blooms test is an indication, the Canon 5D Mark II is up to the challenge

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 06:26:17 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 amI disagree. Perspective is the relation between distance and relative size (that objects farther away are smaller, and by how much), which purely depends on the subject distance. The angle of view (which depends on focal length and sensor size) determines the crop, but you can get exactly the same perspective by cropping later, this doesn't change the perspective. You can correct the smaller angle of view of a smaller sensor by choosing a shorter focal length, which will yield the same perspective and crop, only the DOF will be different.Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 amThe shape is determined by the iris, but the other attributes like how well defined the aperture shape is and if the edges are obvious depends on the under- or overcorrection of spherical aberrations, which is determined by the lens design (and setting of the defocus control ring on the few lenses that have one).Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 amThis statement is not relevant to the discussion. Whatever criterion you choose, it will scale proportionally with sensor size. If you view on a 24" screen, the image from the 1/3rd inch sensor has been enlarged much more to make it that large (in mm, not in pixels). So the CoC is also enlarged, which means the CoC on the sensor must be smaller to compensate.Quote from: alm on July 25, 2010, 12:27:15 amSure, the resolution provides a lower bound, no point in choosing a CoC that's lower than the resolution of either the sensor or the output device (times scaling). But I'm not at all talking about pixel count, for my example, you could just assume both sensors are 1080p, everything except the sensor size (and derived values like focal length, for the same angle of view) can be identical. Actually, for the simple DOF equation, you assume pixel size << CoC, and when viewing (on a screen or on paper), your eyes should be unable to see individual pixels, otherwise the resolution was way too low, or you're too close (which is why CoC assumes a certain viewing distance). So as long as the CoC is much larger than the pixel pitch, the pixel pitch doesn't matter, and you could just as well assume a constant pixel pitch.Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 01:42:34 amI'm saying that you can compensate for the deeper DOF on smaller sensors by using a proportionally larger aperture and proportionally shorter focal length (to compensate for angle of view). The 350D sensor is 1.6x smaller, so the lens should be 1.6x shorter for the same angle of view (~30mm), and the aperture should be a factor 1.6 larger (f/2 on the 5D would be equivalent to f/1.2 on the 350D). This can be derived from the DOF equation, for the simplified case for a symmetrical lens (probably not a bad approximation for a 50mm lens), the hyperfocal distance h=f2/NC, with N the f-number and C the CoC. The near and far limits are a function of h, the subject distance v and v - f. Assuming v >> f (usually true except for macro), we can approximate v - f with v, and the sensor size/aperture/focal length only changes h. If you change the sensor a factor x, both f and C will change (see above), but h must stay the same (same DOF). So f02/N0C0= f12/N1C1= (x*f0)2/ N1(x*C0) => N1= x * N0. If you do it the hard way without my assumptions of a symmetrical lens and v >> f, the change in N will be slightly different than x. You can argue about that exact value, I'm not going to claim that it's exactly 1.600 or something like that, but it's clearly not 1, so the sensor size does have an effect, since you've effectively gotten extra lower stops (f/1.2 on 350D is now f/2.0, so I can go two stops lower than before, and lose two stops on the other end). This is why large format photographers use these extreme aperture's like f/64 to get enough DOF.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 07:12:50 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 24, 2010, 11:53:35 pmyes and the smaller the sensor chip the shorter the lens must be to achive the same angle of view, my first cmaera really had a 6.2-66mm lens because the sensor was so small and it was equivalent to a 28-300 film camera. Now I have a DSLR with an APS sensor I can use proper length lenses and my photos look normal now

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 11:33:31 am
content: More info on the doco:http://www.karlvonmoller.com/blog/news/Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 11:53:21 am
content: anyway, the misconception occured when this "behind the scene" is out before its documentary not as the usually the hollywood movies do (behind the scene is at the end of the story)... so when the documentary will be out? should be something and worth waiting for, i wish to see Dave is posing somewhere while Karl is doing the Blooms panning effect with the surrounding effect of the circle of confusion. hopefully it will be free! at least for us

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 12:49:30 pm
content: Karl has been kind enough to share the how and why of "grading":And gives a sneak peak at what the final doco result will look like.For those (including myself initially) who though the background was "too dark", it's time to learn from the pros!Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:08:36 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2010, 12:49:30 pmDave... dont be too much be influenced by a photographers mind, they got a very different perspective, as i said... they dont like oscilloscope! u may well say that Karl is astonished by your Tektronix... but thats just what they put it out, you dont know whats insideseeing is believing! believing is doing!... what did i say?unless you want to be listed in the best cinematic and director of photography award, then you can do whatever u like. this photography thing is really a subjective matter. will took forever to discuss what u like or dont like. as you said, you will not satisfy everyone. not the electronics bunch in here.we kinda used and like your existing setup (well lit lab n very crowded background)+spinning erthernet board as an intro. but that one can be improved though, but if you delve too much into photography, that will rip out some part of electronics within yourself.my opinion.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:14:05 pm
content: More behind the scenes stuff on Karl's TV ad for Canon:Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 01:22:34 pm
content: but the fact is.. actually... i will be more astonished if you can do all those blooming summer winter COC effect + horse riding frequently here in EEVBlog. you will be noted by videography giants out there more than ever!

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 05:37:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 25, 2010, 12:49:30 pmMaybe a vignette would draw the average fellow's eyes to the subject, but I was still staring at your bench gear.I can't help it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 07:05:20 pm
content: I think Shafri needs to spend a little less time in electronics and more in photography, he's getting that exited that I can't understand what he is on about anymore

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 07:17:50 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 25, 2010, 07:05:20 pmi'm done with photography, thats why i came here. and then... when i'm done here, i'll go somewhere else... just a matter of time.and trust me, sometime i also dont understand myself what i'm talking about.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2010, 07:48:45 pm
content: nice to know I'm not alone

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2010, 12:57:06 am
content: Quote from: Simon on July 25, 2010, 07:05:20 pmWhew, I thought it was just me!Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2010, 01:05:48 am
content: Quote from: shafri on July 25, 2010, 11:53:21 amWhen Karl's finished it!QuoteYes, the final doco will be available for all to see.Dave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2010, 06:47:01 am
content: so what exactly is this documentary about ? you Dave or electronics today on the whole ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2010, 06:50:24 am
content: Quote from: Simon on July 26, 2010, 06:47:01 amIt's about the history of electronics design and manufacture and hobby electronics in Australia, the changes, and the future.I'm just one of half a dozen people interviewed. See Karl's blog page for some of the other people.Dave.