Beginner's CPLD Development Board Advice ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: StarFishPrime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 08:44:56 pm
content: Hi FolksI am looking at getting into CPLDs. Initially for personal interest but I may like to introduce keen pre-university students to these next academic year.I'm thinking of starting with CPLDs but would welcome advice on a suitable development/evaluation board which i may then be able to test out with a couple of students. Unfortunately my students would require a pre-built board rather than knocking their own upThere appears to be a lack of CPLD boards compared to those for FPGAs.I am thinking of boards such as such asDiligent's CoolRunner-II CPLD Starter Board (https://store.digilentinc.com/coolrunner-ii-cpld-starter-board-limited-time/) though this appears non-stocked in the UK.Could you offer any advice here?CheersIan .. northeast uk

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 08:54:54 pm
content: Quote from: StarFishPrime on September 30, 2019, 08:44:56 pmThe prime reason is that small FPGAs are cheaper than CPLDs, and nobody is designing in a CPLD without a specific good reason.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 09:06:47 pm
content: In my view, definitely the Digilent board with the extra peripherals. There is a Digilent office in Romania if that helps:https://store.digilentinc.com/contact-us/DigiKey shows the CoolRunner II board as obsolete yet Digilent shows 401 in stock but 'limited time'https://store.digilentinc.com/coolrunner-ii-cpld-starter-board-limited-time/The 'stamp' format CMOD II is not shown as 'limited time'https://store.digilentinc.com/cmod-c2-breadboardable-coolrunner-ii-cpld-module/This may be a more useful format anyway. I like being able to plug these things into a breadboard. OTOH, I would miss the peripherals.I suspect that CPLDs are going the way of the dinosaur. Why don't you just move to an FPGA and ignore the advanced features or leave them to later.I'm not aware of any inexpensive FPGA boards. I tend to want a lot of peripherals and that drives the cost to high levels. My favorite board:https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-a7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-ece-curriculum/A pretty nice board:https://store.digilentinc.com/arty-a7-artix-7-fpga-development-board-for-makers-and-hobbyists/Again, neither of these are inexpensive.Somebody will come along with a recommendation for something from Lattice. Maybe something like this:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/LCMXO2-7000HE-B-EVN/220-2625-ND/3906092I have no experience with Lattice.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2019, 09:14:54 pm
content: As above.The line between FPGAs and CPLDs has become hair thin. I think the Coolrunner device could qualify as an FPGA actually, even if it's limited.So for your requirements, any small FPGA series would be a good fit.Lattice has many of them: MachXO2, MachXO3, ice40... I recommend them whole-heartedly, they are pretty straightforward to use, pretty capable, come in all kinds of packages, and the tools are decent.The dev boards are dead-cheap.

author: spudboy488
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 11:31:55 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on September 30, 2019, 08:54:54 pmThe reason I used CPLDs is the instant-on nature as they were non-volatile once programmed. Are there FPGAs that don't require to be loaded at power-up?

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:05:15 pm
content: LCMXO3LF-9400C-ASC-B-EVNThe Lattice Dev boards are IMHO very good value. The lesser ones, eg ice40, seem to have a shorter support span than the more up market ones... The one above has more LUTs than you can shake a stick at.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 12:59:30 pm
content: Quote from: spudboy488 on October 01, 2019, 11:31:55 amThe Lattice ones above all have non-volatile memory. (For the MachXO3, check the models. Some have embedded flash, some have some kind of non-volatile memory that can only be reprogrammed a couple times. The MachXO2s all have flash.) Boot time at power-on is on average < 1ms.If 1ms is still too long, from what I remember, Microsemi Igloo (/Igloo2) FPGAs are truly flash-based (meaning there is no internal transfer from flash to ram at power-on), making them virtually "instant-on" (although I couldn't find timing figures about that in the DS, but didn't look thoroughly.) To me, the Lattice ones with very short boot times are more than adequate for many applications, but, you have other options here to take a look at.For ease of use, ease of supply and the tools, I still recommend Lattice products over Microsemi ones, if the former fit your requirements. YMMV.

author: LovelyA72
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 03:23:18 pm
content: There's a famous low cost CPLD board on aliexpress that have EPM240T100 installed. If you just want to try CPLD without costing a lot of money, that's your choice.

author: Pete66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2019, 06:39:04 am
content: I created a CPLD dev board that plugs into a breadboard after watching some of Bill Herds videos.I built my board, bought some CPLDs on ebay (Altera EPM7032.xx and EPM7064xx series) these are old but cheap on ebay and they fit my board. Downloaded QuartusII 9.1 sp2 (I dont think newer versions of QuartusII support these old CPLDs) and I bought a USB Blaster on ebay.I added a few more features to my board than the one in the video. I made it to support multiple CPLD voltages 5V 3.3V etc....It was a fun project and it works great. The best part is you can plug it into a breadboard.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2019, 07:14:36 am
content: Go with Lattice, I used the ICE40 family and then an ultra low power ispMach 4000Z 1.8V device, also the software tool ISPLever Classic is just the right size

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2019, 03:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 01, 2019, 03:32:42 pmI was not sure about Igloo2, but we used Igloo a few years ago... I just remember there was a lot of disappointment when the Igloo2 series was released, but didn't remember they went as far as taking this nasty step...Anyway, as I said, I rather recommend Lattice products at this point for a number of other reasons.The very fast boot time is usually quite sufficient for MANY applications. 1ms at power-on is nothing. Even your power supplies can easily take longer than this to just stabilize...Now if you really need less than this for a particular application, sure, see elsewhere...

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2019, 11:25:09 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 01, 2019, 03:32:42 pmIgloo2, as well as the SoC variant based on it, SmartFusion2, absolutely have flash-based, "instant on" (once power rails are above certain thresholds) configuration. The PolarFire devices also have flash-based configuration.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 06:04:16 pm
content: Please have a look at:https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/LCMXO256C-3TN100I/220-1050-ND/2641851It doesn't get easier than this. Single Supply, no external configuration memory, simple usage, and only 2.41 GBP. You should have no problems with making your own board, and with a Chinese PCB maker like JLCPCB you stay below 5 GBP for a single board.You can use an FT2232D for programming, and you could even put the FTDI programmer circuit onto your board.fchk

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 07:06:00 pm
content: Over the last couple of days, I have run into this tutorial site:http://www.pyroelectro.com/On the left menu bar you will see a button to FPGA and CPLD which leads to several videos on the subject. The tutorials use an Altera based CPLD board:https://gadgetory.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66&product_id=126My board should be here any time now. Note that the kit includes the Altera USB Blaster programmer.This is a relatively small CPLD but it does offer 5V compatibility if you follow the directions. Otherwise, 3.3VWhen the author says to install the 13.0 SP 1 version of the software, he's right! Any newer version has dropped support for this chip.It's an inexpensive way to start, $50 delivered, and it gives me a chance to play with the Altera software. So far, I like it a lot!

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 07:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on October 15, 2019, 06:23:41 pmWrong? Nothing really. You might only save some money and cabling with the FTDI solution.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2019, 07:34:15 pm
content: As to JTAG programmers: It is useful if the programmer is supported by the IDE directly rather than having to use a second tool to transfer the image. There used to be some dongles that wouldn't work with Xilinx's ISE Impact tool and, in the case of Digilent boards, I had to use their Adept software. It's not a real big deal but it's nice to just click "Program" in the IDE.I like Digilent's current approach with either an FTDI chip or some uC doing the transfer. It integrates with the IDE and also provides a UART interface for FPGA projects. The JTAG approach for FPGAs doesn't include the UART capability.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 04:00:08 am
content: Simple and effective as 1st boardhttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/32705732826.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.7ed52277r6UZup&algo_pvid=c20fe7de-5e9b-4401-9c97-5503b72086de&algo_expid=c20fe7de-5e9b-4401-9c97-5503b72086de-8&btsid=49f3aca6-6cca-4f88-b49a-a57f31f56a37&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_9,searchweb201603_52

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2019, 06:46:04 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 15, 2019, 07:06:00 pmIt came in yesterday! There is something quite nice about having defined experiments and a kit that contains every single piece you will require. No messing around looking for parts!The software works fine but I'm having a problem assigning pins. I can select them, no problem, but I don't seem to understand how to make the software keep them. I found that if I use the pull-down menu in each box, things work out fine. Simply typing the pin number didn't seem to work, for me. I'm sure it is operator error.I did Lesson 6, a 4-bit counter, as a first example and the directions are clear and correct and, yes, it worked right out of the box.The USB Blaster is included although it is cheap enough to buy separately through Amazon. The USB Blaster II is a LOT more money, I'll pass. As I said above, the kit includes the programmer.The only thing I would add to the kit is a package of flexible jumpers:https://www.amazon.com/RGBZONE-Solderless-Flexible-Breadboard-Raspberry/dp/B07FDY64Q5/ref=sr_1_7The kit includes some of the usual solid wire jumpers used on breadboards and these work fine for the more permanent connections like Vcc and Gnd.For somebody wanting to get started with CPLDs, this is a very nice kit and the tutorials are excellent.http://www.pyroelectro.com/edu/fpga/https://gadgetory.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66&product_id=126I might consider adding a kit of solid jumper wires if I didn't already have several:https://www.amazon.com/AUSTOR-Lengths-Assorted-Preformed-Breadboard/dp/B07CJYSL2TThe included jumper kit is a little spartan. There are likely enough jumpers for the experiments but sometimes having a few more is useful.The fact that everything is included in the kit is a really big deal!Remember to install version 13 SP 1 of Quartus, no newer version will work. Install the USB Blaster driver according to these instructions:https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/programmable/support/support-resources/download/drivers/usb-blaster/dri-usb-blaster-vista.htmlI'm using Win 10 but the Win 7 instructions, linked above, work fine. HINT: Don't select the x32 or x64 directories - it says that in the instructions but I don't read instructions all that well.

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2019, 01:42:44 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 01, 2019, 03:32:42 pmWhat do you mean that the Igloo2 is not live at power-up? It is Flash-based in the same way the older devices are, no?I understand there is a difference with the newer PolarFire however which is SONOS-based, I still thought all these devices are instant-on though.Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 03, 2019, 03:05:51 pmWhy the disappointment when Igloo2 was released?

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2019, 08:09:15 am
content: @rstofer et allI'd go for this board - Altera EPM240 - It has room for a lot more "fun" than the small "Official board" -Only minus is it's 3v3 only , but so is most of the "new world"https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025899613.htmlAnd maybe also this (for larger projects) - FPGA - This board is real funhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32954333761.htmlRemember a programmerhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32831280653.htmlIn fact i'm "Bingo" on the Pyro website , and completed most lessons using the EPM240 Board.

author: Ditiris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 01:20:18 pm
content: I'll echo others here and recommend the Lattice MachXO boards. They're excellent value for the money, and really they're just more integrated FPGAs, so they're a natural stepping stone.