Answer for "where do you see yourself in 5 years"( interview question? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: manubali
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:07:17 am
content: So, i had an interview with a big electronics company for repairs and service technician, the interview was good but i was rejected, after some rethinking i came to conclusion that they rejected me because i told them that i want to become design engineer in next 5 years. As design engineer is quite different from technician so maybe they thought i was not suitable for a technician role.Can it happen?? Can they reject me as my goal was different from there job requirements?? I even showed them pcbs that i designed myself amd i was 100% sure that i am going to get that job.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:18:52 am
content: Sorry about not getting the job.I hate this question. You shouldn't answer it honestly. If I would answer it honestly, you never get the job.What answers are they expecting?- In your seat- Managing my own company- Living in a different country- Working part time and becoming a consultant for way more money that you are paying me- Launching a sucessful Kickstarte campaign and quitting my job here- Doing an MBA and becoming a corporate weasel for disgusting amount of moneyAny of these are answers to that question. Any of these I rather imagine than the answer they looking for.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:24:04 am
content: - Stuck in traffic driving,- On a holiday (I tend to save them up for bigger blocks in off periods)- Training the new guy / girl- Singing a song to myself to get through a job that went pear shaped at the last minute.- I asked myself that when he returned from 2027 and he said no spoilers.When i was asked that question for my first job, I said "Honestly, this is an interview, I have no idea on the specifics, or if your even going to hire me, but In any case i'll probably be working somewhere that challenges my mind and lets me work with my hands"

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:32:30 am
content: Quote from: manubali on October 11, 2017, 10:07:17 amYeap. They are hiring for a role not as a step to fulfill your life goals.You might be able to get away with it though IF your aspirations mean that the current role will be fulfilled AND they end up with someone even better and whilst only paying you the initial salary.If you aspire to do a different role then effectively you are telling them you plan to leave.... not a good start.

author: medical-nerd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:33:44 am
content: Hiya'Ouch' - I'm so glad I've never been asked that question. At least in the medical field the options are more limited after the first few years. The only sensible response I could have given for the first 10 years would be 'still training'.Cheers

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:12:38 pm
content: My answer was always "still doing something I enjoy".

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:22:45 pm
content: That is a very poor interview question (and I spent 20 years hiring technical people), and if asked by a technical/hiring manager it shows his lack of experience and a hint for what you might expect working at such a company. Now I'd think nothing of it if asked by an HR person, for which Dave's reply is pretty good, though doesn't directly present an answer.

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:53:40 pm
content: Quote from: manubali on October 11, 2017, 10:07:17 amAlways keep in mind that headmasters of big companies want slaves who plays what they want. If you are different, you will be rejected. If want the job, plays with rules they prefer and never show that you are any better than them.There is plenty of sources where you can learn how to answer on such questions designed specifically to collect mediocrity and reliable slave labor.On any quite personal question my answer always was: "I did not expect that kind of question except related to the job" and leaving interview.You personally have always to vague what is your best interest to have that job, not their. And always be positive and learn from such "failures", you will eventually find company where do not search only for mediocrity. And believe me, you will be much happier in that kind of working environment.In reality, usually 4-5 years in one company is too much. Same people, same job - absolute saturation on job. Unless you do not have any higher interests, you will probably resign yourself and change the job.

author: khs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: manubali on October 11, 2017, 10:07:17 amMaybe I'm wrong , but maybe this was the "mistake".The job was to repair and make service - not design, so showing your boards you told them, this is what I want to do. Not repair and service. Or with other words. I don't like this job.Just my two cents.

author: gonzo_the_great
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 01:04:33 pm
content: At one of our annual reviews, I was asked, 'Where do you see your job taking you in the coming year?'My reply, ' Oh no, are we reorganising the desks yet again?!'

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 02:48:23 pm
content: Interviewer: "So, where do you seen yourself in 5 years time?"Me: [Raises one eyebrow and, in that tone that says, "You've let me down, and you're letting yourself down."] "Really??"Never answer this question. The question is trite, the answers can only be trite, dishonest or ridiculously naïve. Instead, ask them what they're really trying to find out, some of which might be:What are your medium/long term career goals?How ambitious are you?How driven are you?How realistic are you about what you personally can achieve in 5 years?Are you likely to stick around after we've invested time and money in you?Can you deal with a stupid question diplomatically?I don't have a clue how to handle this interview, do you?

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 03:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 11, 2017, 02:48:23 pmReally? Not they are stupid, but rather degrading and show much about the company. i.e. they key people.If someone spent 5-25 years of life in one company making him profit, taking insults and losing health, is it worth taking job in that company? Better cut-off that in beginning, on the interview.I can currently remember some of them:- Are you ready to work extended time without paying off (14h, instead 8h), weekends and holidays? Would you signed that?- Are you ready to break vacation if your superiors call you?- If your superior order you to do something and you know it can be better, would you tell him or do exactly as ordered?- If you are women, do you have or plan to have children? (BTW, this is legitimate question only on hazardous place!)- How many children you have and how they are old?- Do you have cancer, hearth, kidney or any other chronic disease? (Again, legitimate only for specific jobs.)- Where you are born, what is your religion and are you politically active.Etc...There is many of them have nothing related with actual job, but only to determine material status, psychological profile, health condition and other quite personal issues of applicant.My advice:Keep out from these companies!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 06:08:10 pm
content: Ugh I hate those sort of companies. Not playing that game. I'm doing the company a favour by agreeing to work for them, not the other way round. Never let anyone think it's different or the game is slavery not employment.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 08:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 11, 2017, 06:08:10 pmWhere is this type of disease more prevalent? Companies or Universities ?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 08:44:46 pm
content: Companies. Universities at least have a goal past aquisition of cash (well some do)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:00:45 pm
content: Your answer can be a good answer or a bad answer. Some companies just want a cog that does its job without squeaking. Obviously, your answer won't be the right one for them. Other companies want to grow their people, and those will probably like your answer. A lot of companies say they're the latter, but a lot won't put their money where their mouth is, quite literally.Honestly, I wouldn't want to work in a place where you're supposed to stay put. Of course they expect you to fulfil the job at hand, but 5 years is a long time. You can expect ambitious people to be more eager to learn about their profession and to look for ways to improve things.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:18:36 pm
content: This is a somewhat cynical approach to life, but it's accurate and any bumps in the road are shoulder shrugs, not crying into a tub of Ben and Jerry's. Everyone wants a cog that works harder, costs less every year and doesn't squeak.The only reason you run a business is to make profit and ultimately hand that over to investors or keep it yourself. The only reason you employ someone is because you can make more profit with their skill than their salary and operating expenditure is. If you treat them nice, they make you more profit. You give them a little bit of that profit to motivate them to make more profit. At some point, if the numbers don't add up, whatever your contribution and history is, you're instantly fucked. There are very few exceptions to this. 99% of employers despite outward intention wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.As a knowledge worker, you're basically a brain prostitute.As a professional employee, the name of the game is to (a) work as little as possible (b) gain as much cash as possible for that. If at some point you find it enjoyable, bonus! But one thing you need to do is make sure that at no point, all the carrot dangling by the employers actually results in anything on it's own. The only gains you can have are less time at work and more money. Anything else is plain old capitalist exploitation.Ergo, in 5 years I expect to have had an inflation busting rise every year and get more holiday days every year or you can sod off. But that's not how you answer the questionAnswer a question with a question:Tell me about your roadmap for five years and I'll let you know.I use a metric to describe my current employment situation. I take the market rate across 100 jobs on your average job site and do an upper standard deviation of it, take the absolute difference of that and current salary (excluding any benefits and bonuses!) and then multiply that by the absolute difference of monthly hours worked versus workable hours. If that decreases for 3 months in a row, I'm outta there in 2 seconds flat.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:22:13 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on October 11, 2017, 12:22:45 pmThat's the point. Give a non-answer they likely haven't heard before, without being a smartarse whilst kinda acknowledging the stupidness of the question. Although if the interview isn't going well and I know I don't want to work for this company, then I might insert the smart arse response

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 11, 2017, 09:18:36 pmc) Extract as much as you can from the company. e.g. Travel, new skills, professional courses etc.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 11, 2017, 09:24:01 pmForgot that - definitely!Also anything you can nick from the stationery cupboard

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:37:49 pm
content: Typical clownery as the rest of social whoring sometimes called rescruiting.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 09:46:54 pm
content: I really do hope you're not "work as little as possible" people".

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 11, 2017, 09:46:54 pmThat is a really good answer, in fact as good as any other answer. Only the situation it is given is propably wrong (as not politically correct and as such brokes the social whoring rules).

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:16:11 pm
content: Yes. They do not wish to spend time and money training someone for a job knowing he'll then move as soon as possible. In some way, yeah it's sad. In another way, they have goals too.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on October 11, 2017, 12:22:45 pmCan you explain why inquiring about a candidate's aspirations would be inappropriate? Showing a candidate that you have some interest in their career development seems a positive thing, and its something many interviewers do. Its not an easy question to answer well, but if interview questions were easy to answer there would be no point in asking them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:26:58 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 11, 2017, 09:46:54 pmTo be clear, this is more about keeping to your contracted hours. If someone wants you to jump, they better either pay you in notes or give you some more time back in lieu but always reserve the right to say no.Promises are cheap. Bonuses don’t materialise. Cash or time have immediate value.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:11:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 11, 2017, 10:26:58 pmFair enough, and I think I agree. I was mostly referring to how work shouldn't be a chore. If your goal is to do as little of it as possible, you might be in the wrong line of work.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:57:33 pm
content: Ok, first and most important tip.Never overthink an interview, ever!You simply don't blow an interview by wrongly answering just one (or a few) question.It's all about a feel thing, does it click or not?That's also how you should see a job interview.Not only if the company wants you, but how do you feel about the company as well.Because getting a job and feeling horrible after a few months is a total waste of energy and time. For you but of course for the company as well.I have done and given many job interviews myself.So best (and only) piece of advice, just be yourself!!Just be honest.About this specific question, simply answer what you really think. There is no wrong answer.If you only see this as something temporary (because you a little headstart for your own freelance business), it might be wise to give a bit more tactic answer.If companies are so formal and anal about answers I can already tell it's not gonna work for me, since I don't like to work with these type of people.I sometimes even ask how they actually work on a daily basis.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:10:59 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 11, 2017, 09:46:54 pmWhy not? What's wrong with wanting to work as little as possible?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:27:07 am
content: Well i'll take a spin to work as little as possible,take a good reference of how fast you can do a job when your starting to settle in to a job, you will learn new tools and tricks to decrease this time as things go on, keep them up your sleeve and use them sparingly that way when you have a rough day, or something hits the fan you can keep pace with yourself, and your not as stressed out.If your a salery worker, then they schedule an amount of work based upon your previous efforts, and the past few i have been in have scheduled it with almost no wiggle room,For wage work, your paid by the hour, not to say go council worker, but remember to get home on time, and have meal breaks, if there is a company culture of skipping meals and being asked to work through lunch. i consider it a red flag,There are 2 golden tenants i hold an employer to, lunch breaks are sacred, and if i'm working, your reimbursing me.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:42:53 am
content: A good company will see what's useful and worth the investement and how they can use certain talents.Maybe you're a person who shows up only a few days a week and are very anti-social.But when you do show up, you have all the answers and best solutions.In my opinion that's the right way of dealing with talent, it's about the end result.A bad company doesn't care about the end-result, but only the formalities, therefor wasting precious talent.

author: sasa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 04:31:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 11, 2017, 09:24:01 pmFor youngsters just finished university, that may be one of the primary goals. But for experience middle age or senior, that is pointless.Keeping in mind that is always cheaper for company to sack people and hire or employ ones with required skills/knowledge, than invest in existed is another factor. That moderately depend on company size, evolving plans, annual income and primary way of threading people as a slave labor or priceless intellectual capacity...Following upper, for youngsters, small company is probably much better choice. Preparing for interview would also include examining full portfolio of the company, number of employees, annual income, desirable blank preliminary working agreement, ex employees experience ("rumors", similar as some companies require recommendations from ex employer), etc, etc.And that is the whole point,youare the one choice the company, not otherwise. Making that relationship put you in quite inferior position, however nothing prevent you to resign if turn out to be a bad decision.In my opinion and experience, it must exists quite big reasons for experience middle age or senior person to apply for a job, instead to open his own company.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 05:05:36 am
content: "Quite possibly pushing up daisies!"

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:22:57 am
content: Quote from: manubali on October 11, 2017, 10:07:17 amDoing a post-mortem is a good thing. However, your assumption here may be wrong. It may have nothing to do with what you say. You don't know what is in the mind of the other guy. It could have been because the last candidate came across so well that nothing you could have said would get you over this hill; or he just saw a movie and the killer was wearing exactly what you are wearing.So, the best is to be truthful about yourself. If that is what you want to be in 5 years, they may as well know. If they don't like you because of that, you probably would not like the job anyway.If getting the job is above all else, you can be truthful with that also.Latch on to that question as an opportunity to sell yourself: "I need this job, and I think I am a good candidate for it. If I get this job, I will work hard to keep it. So, I hope in 5 years, I would have built up 5 years worth of successful track record. I hope by then, and in fact very much sooner, that I have earned your confidence in me: You'll by then and have the confident in me that I can take on any tasks you give me, get it done and get it done well. (Now repeat to get it sink in) So by then, you will be giving me responsibility for stuff that is most important to you because you know that I will get it done and get it done well! And of course I hope I am still here in 5 years with better compensation because ofmy increased value to youand this organization. (not spoken but keep in mindwhat you are trying to convey: After all, stuff important to you will have more value to you...)"

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:00:25 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on October 12, 2017, 01:10:59 amLike I stated before: if your sole purpose of working is to do as little as possible of it, you may have the wrong job. I would absolutely hate my life if I didn't enjoy my job.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:52:45 am
content: Interviewed an EE last week, and asked this same question.This was largely out of curiosity and to see if they had a clear plan for their future (what we could do to support them in their goal). I think the only answer I wouldn't have liked would have been "as your competition having stolen your products".

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:58:12 am
content: Quote from: fcb on October 12, 2017, 09:52:45 amThat's a good answer, except that he should end up in marketing instead

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 10:03:39 am
content: Quote from: sasa on October 12, 2017, 04:31:48 amI don't agree with this at all.Maybe if only companies think short term, but long term exact skills and knowledge are unimportant. Well, obiously you need at least some minimum skills, but "the click" is much more important.Besides if companies want to innovate, they NEED people with different ways of working and different mindsets. That by itselfs means it's very likely that candidates have a slightly different portofolio.With only looking and just skills, you risk going into tunnel vision and not being innovative enough (which is key nowadays to survive).So in the longer run it's definitly worth investing in things beside plain skills and knowledge.(for the same reason it's acutally more profitable to give people enough days off/holidays)I also don't agree that 'you' are the choice, not the company. It needs to go both ways. If companies don't respect you as a person, just even quit the interview. You can only have a good (working) relationship if respect and trust comes from both sides. So I don't agree that it will put you in an inferior position. In fact, my experience is quite the opposite.I also don't follow the last bit. There are tons of reasons why people don't start there own business.To name just a few, some people simply don't want one. Running your business can be pretty scary and risky, they prefer safety. Also running your own company asks for different skills (sales, marketing, managing), some people don't have or don't want these skills.Last thing is it happens all the time that seniors apply for new jobs.One of the main reason is that people want something else after a while.So I don't get this argument at all.It's quite common and nobody thinks anything negative from it at all.But maybe that differs per country?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 10:17:47 am
content: Having run as a contractor and my own business for well over 10 years, I wouldn't recommend it. It's a PITA.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 10:20:27 am
content: I think how companies treat or educate their employees also vastly differs between countries and, more importantly, associated labour laws. If you can't fire someone on a whim, it pays to educate him and keep him entertained. An unmotivated, badly trained employee whom can't be easily or cheaply fired is a no win scenario.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 10:55:09 am
content: I've interviewed many people for technical positions for a small company over the years and I never asked 'that' question.........but I can see a motive for doing so, it's not to get a definitive answer as such, it's just to see the response and help gauge the person inside a bit.........any answer at all is helpful to the interviewer.The person that claims they will be ruling the world sat in the directors chair......ok, the interviewer just learned something.The person that says they haven't got a clue......again, the interviewer just learned something.The person that says something in the middle......guess what again, the interviewer just learned something.IMHO.Ian.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 11:27:36 am
content: It’s really disturbing to see some of the replies here. Perhaps it’s due to cultural differences and upbringing. My advise would be to not dwell on it and move on. I never approach a position I interview for or others when I’m on the other side of the table that there is going to be the perfect position or candidate. A job is a means to an end. To earn compensation to provide for a sustenance. If you are looking for a perfect candidate or job you’re doing it wrong. No such thing exists. I’ve never worked a job I’ve enjoyed so much that I didn’t want to leave. Thank god that’s true. My time is better spent with friends, family, hobbies and interests. That’s not to say you can’t make a job enjoyable. Focus on what your good at. Eventually it’ll become enjoyable. Just don’t make it something that you can’t do without. I’ve seen way to many relationships and families broken over employment and jobs. Luckily I’ve always worked in positions where I’ve not been able to take my work home due to the proprietary nature of the data and work I do. I can understand that being hard when you can’t.My half a cent.-MSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 11:39:22 am
content: Quote from: michael.spivack.50 on October 12, 2017, 11:27:36 amIf your job doesn't entail a serious interest, you're in the wrong field. I can't imagine just working to eat. It would be a long-winded suffering.A job should be a means to an end, but that end shouldn't be purely monetary.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 11:54:50 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 11:39:22 amThere is more than just the field you're in.Some companies are simply just horrendous to work in (extremely formal, bad vibe, ridiculous expectations).So there is much more that counts (and is in my opinion maybe even more important)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: b_force on October 12, 2017, 11:54:50 amIn the second case: get out. As soon as possible. Even if it pays ridiculously well, staying in toxic situations is a great way of slowly squeezing the joy out of yourself.Do you really propose working in a field you have zero affinity with? Even if you try to minimize the amount of work you do, you still spend a significant part of your life doing it. It's rather terrible to have no interest in what you spend a lot of your time doing, other than the pay it brings at the end of the week or month.

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:21:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 12:09:07 pmInterest is a very wide and vague concept.Someone can have multiple interests.So let's say he graduated in electronics, but also has a very strong interest in social interaction and 'doing something good' (for the community, the poor etc).That differs per person.The question is were you get the most fulfillment of?Maybe you can find a job that's very tech, but has non of the other interests.Or maybe you can find a job that has the last two, but less tech.Sometimes you need to compromise.The fact is, you can also do a lot of stuff besides your job.So maybe your job isn't much tech, but you can have a rather serious hobby or even small company.I think most important is that you are happy with the work you're doing, because, YES you do spend a lot of time working.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:36:06 pm
content: I think we're saying the same thing. I'm not saying you should do the work you're trained for. I'm saying you should do the work that makes you happy. Yes, money is important too and you should be compensated properly, but not at the cost of actually enjoying your time. Life's too short to waste on something you don't like.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:43:35 pm
content: The risk of doing something you love is that if you end up working for a soul crushing hell hole then you will be left with nothing. This is one reason I jumped out of EE and into software. Three years working as tea boy grade work in a defence contractor was at risk of ruining something I loved.You need something to look forward to after work as well. If you get home and the next thing you're looking forward to is work, then that's equally as broken.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 11:39:22 amSometimes you have to bite the bullet to take what you can. When times are hard and companies aren’t hiring and you got laid off. Even I’ve flipped burgers at McDonald’s for 6 months to make my rent and put food on the table. Did I enjoy it not at first but the people I worked with and the relationships I made were priceless and that’s how I made it enjoyable. It wasn’t very stimulating, but it had to be done. Should you find that balance of a job you are good at and enjoy? Of course. But don’t make that your only goal if the circumstances demand you gotta take care of yourself. I see way too many candidates with huge gaps in their employment who just said they couldn’t find something enjoyable. That’s malarkey, and a big red flag in my book. It means your not resourceful and give up too easily.A job should be a means to an end, but that end shouldn't be purely monetary.It absolutely should. Especially when you are looking for a job and you are out of work. Of course the best time to look for a job is when you are employed. But many of us rarely realize that until it’s too late and we’re on the streets or back home living with our parents.Your completely missing my point. There’s no such thing as a perfect job and anyone who tells you there is they are lying to you. There’s always going to be a flaw that you have to deal with. There’s going to be something that you are uncomfortable or not quite right that you have to deal with. It could be a coworker, policy, corporate culture, manager or supervisor. Don’t let little things like that get to you.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:48:54 pm
content: Spot on

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2017, 12:43:35 pmSure, and agreed. You don't necessarily need to do the thing you love at work, but you need to at least like the thing you do at work.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:12:43 pm
content: If you wake up in the morning and say "oh goody goody another day full of work, I can't wait", then you are extraordinaily fortunate. Even more so if you still do after a couple years of it.Most of us, I think, want to work less. If you were "independantly wealthy", what would you do, would you still do your job? Few would. I sure wouldn't.One's self should not be defined by thier job, unfortunately in most society that seems to be the case - "nice to meet you, what do you do for a living?"Maybe, just maybe, the coming AI storm will rectify that by way of massive reduction in employment and unavoidable restructure of how we regard it, painfully pehaps, but ultimately for the good, when eventualy there will be a time when that common phrase is "nice to meet you, what do you like to do?" the world having got past it's present obsession with employment.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:35:57 pm
content: I don't think you're quite reading what I wrote. I said that work should be a means to an end, but that this end shouldn't be purely monetary. That statement concedes that food needs to be put on the table. If the choice is between not eating and taking a dead end job, then the latter obviously makes you happier. It probably doesn't make you happy, though. Just less unhappy.Also note that I never said that you should only take perfect jobs. Better yet, the worst jobs often teach you the most. That in turn doesn't mean you should seek them out. You should seek something out that makes you happy to at least some degree.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:50:49 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 11, 2017, 09:18:36 pmExactly!You pay me, and I allow to be screwed.But please......... do not ask me to pretend that I'm enjoying it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:59:57 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on October 12, 2017, 01:50:49 pmGhastly.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 03:31:13 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 01:35:57 pmI think we are at the same level. It bothers me to see folks give college and high school grads the advice that you should hold out for the best job and that if your not happy you should leave your job. The grass is always greener on the other side and once you get there you’ll find a flaw of some sort that will drive you away again. It’s a vicious circle and usually leads to a terrible work ethic as well as a broken resume. If you’re switching employers every 2 years. It’s not the job, it’s you. As a hiring manager. I like to see people who have longevity cause I know their not going to bolt when it gets tough. Most millennials. Just don’t seem to have the tenacity and wherewithal to gut it out. I get that when your starting out as a teen and 20’s there’s going to be movement, but at some point you gotta settle a bit.I agree money isn’t everything and doesn’t bring you happiness. Even people really don’t bring you happiness. That comes from within. Ultimately everything and everyone you know will eventually let your expectations down. It’s just best to not develop those expectations and realize shit happens. You gotta roll with it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 03:58:27 pm
content: I guess it's all about perspective.In my opinion it's also not healthy and smart to stay at the same job for more than 10-15 years, unless you're happy/fine with it.Depending on the size of the company it's even deadly to stay innovative with people sticking around for so long.Btw, a lot of times people don't choose to switch employers that often.Especially the last few years a lot of companies don't want to give any fixed contracts.So it certainly doesn't say anything about the person, sometimes it's bad luck.I have seen leaving enough very talented smart people, simply because companies can't effort a fixed contract.(for the record in many countries you can't just fire someone)

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:13:10 pm
content: Quote from: michael.spivack.50 on October 12, 2017, 03:31:13 pmThat is no longer true. It can be very hard for people to keep a job more than a few years because the companies are just nowhere near as stable as in the past. Only 3 out of the 11 companies that I have worked for over the last 40 years still exist, that figure gets much worse if you include companies that I've worked freelance for. Failing companies, and mergers and acquisitions followed by redundancy generating reorganisations often mean that the job doesn't exist for more than two or three years. These days you're very fortunate if you can find somewhere where it is physically possible to stay 4 years or more.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 12, 2017, 06:13:10 pmMaybe I’m the outlier. Myself and 7 others in my position have survived for 20+ years. Granted our respective original employers have changed due to acquisitions and mergers but we have all stayed put doing the same duties which always expand supporting the same customers through different contracts. I agree there’s no such thing as permanent contracts especially when dealing with government entities. I was given at least 5 opportunities to change companies, earn ridiculous amounts of money and even work directly for the federal government. It just didn’t feel right to stab my employer in the back like that and leave. I guess I have an unhealthy amount of loyalty.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:48:07 pm
content: I'd cut the ropes and say: " I have no answer to this question"...By the way, I'm studying engegneering, so I guess I'd be graduating, if everthing goes as expected.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 09:24:46 am
content: Quote from: michael.spivack.50 on October 12, 2017, 06:44:53 pmMost companies who have continued for decades have seen huge swings in what they do. If you have have been supporting the same customers for 20 years I think you must either be in low grade maintenance work, or an outlier.Quote from: michael.spivack.50 on October 12, 2017, 06:44:53 pmHow is changing jobs stabbing your employer in the back? Running away at a critical point in a short deadline project might be considered stabbing them in the back, but simply going where the opportunities take you is EXACTLY what any employer is also doing.

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 10:36:06 am
content: It's a no win question, you can't answer it directly without looking bad. May as well call them out on that & pass that monkey straight back to them."Where will I be in five years? Respectfully, that's a tricky question to answer. If I tell you I want to be running the company, you might think I'm over ambitious and will leave this role quickly. If I tell you I'm quite happy to be still doing this job, you might think that I have no interest in self progression. Neither of these are true, I'm somewhere in the middle.What do you think that the ideal candidate for this job will be doing in five years time?"

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 10:37:07 am
content: Quote from: michael.spivack.50 on October 12, 2017, 03:31:13 pmI think these supposed millenials get a lot of undeserverd flak. They are a product of the world they grew up in. Research also indicates that they work differently in some areas thanks to these different circumstances, but aren't less competent or hard working. Horses for courses and all that, and if you manage to incorporate their strengths into your work process, your company will benefit. If you try to fit everyone in the same mould, expect should expect problems. You probably deserve them too.Personally I feel there's a profound difference between thoughing something out and staying in a job that doesn't make you happy. I would leave a job because I'm not challenged or things are too easy. Both make me unhappy. I would not quickly quit a job because it's too hard. That's just a challenge to tackle. The same goes for loyalty. That's very explicitly a two way street, but research indicates that most employees take their relationship much more personal than employers. To most, you're just an asset. If so, you breed zero loyalty.Another thing to note is that the market has changed. It used to be common to work 10 or 20 years for the same boss. Now, that's becoming ever rarer, but that's as much caused by employers as it is by employees.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 10:38:56 am
content: Quote from: vealmike on October 13, 2017, 10:36:06 amIn the interviews I've done, saying you're in the middle quickly gets you discarded. It's a middle of the road taking no responsibilities answer. Say what you mean and people will like it, or not. But don't take the safe road.

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 10:49:35 am
content: That may be a country specific thing. In the UK, there's a very fine line between coming across as much better than average and bragging, but I do take your point.It's a crap question. The interviewer's job is to help you show your very best side and to keep you honest. It's pointless for them to ask a question to which you can only give an answer they'll find disagreeable.Delete the sentence about being somewhere between the two if you like, but I maintain that this one should be diplomatically batted back across the table.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 10:58:30 am
content: Quote from: coppice on October 13, 2017, 09:24:46 amIt’s a very expensive feat to keep someone’s clearance maintained and keep them trained on ever evolving products that a company constantly releases over the years. I travel twice a year to do hands on training for new products. Sometimes it’s overseas. Not to mentioned in the past 5 years along my company has bought three other companies in which we’ve had to take in their products and learn how to support them. I guess it comes down to the type of profession you are doing. I can understand if you have a marketable skill and feel like your position is dead end. I may have a decent marketable skill by being analytical and able to troubleshoot well. I’ve just not really felt unappreciated or underutilized.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: b_force
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:25:03 am
content: Quote from: vealmike on October 13, 2017, 10:36:06 amThat's actually with most questions.For the same reason I don't believe in 'what are your good/strong points and what are your bad points?'It's extremely subjective, and what is something positive for someone, can be negative for someone else.So that's always my direct answer that that question.The good and nice companies I did interviews with, also admit they just use these questions to just start somewhere.Unfortunately some other companies take it way to serious and strict.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:31:37 am
content: Quote from: vealmike on October 13, 2017, 10:49:35 amI disagree that it's a question which cannot be answered correctly. Not to mention that correct implies there is a right answer, while an interview is also about just getting to know each other.Some companies value employee growth a lot, and reward ambition with tough jobs that provide a way up to a better position. In those cases, an ambitous answer will score you points. It's also not a horrible thing to be honest to each other. I've seen companies tell people it needs them in position X for at least Y period. That way it's clear that you're expected to fulfil a position. After that, you're free to pursue your ambitions and if you did your job well, that will likely be facilitated by the company.Of course, the UK's stiff upper lip is well known around the world

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:34:32 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 13, 2017, 10:37:07 amSome of it is deserved but I agree they are a product of raising and life experiences. But sometimes you gotta grow up and take responsibility for your choices. About 10 years ago I hired a team of 15 engineers to do maintenance on three datacenters filled with our products. These are entry level positions. I got about three college graduates with computer science degrees, 4 former marines with some technical experience, and the rest were from a local technical/vocational school. We have to pretty much trained them all. About 10 to 12 two week classes all over the nation on varied products we were supporting. It was a 5 year contract. Everything is well documented with procedures. It was very clear these were entry level positions. A great deal of money was spent getting these folks up to speed on the various products and much of it is specialized. They good performers out of the entire crew of course were the marines. They didn’t feel the work was below them, had surprising analytical skills to overcome the more difficult troubleshooting scenarios that they encountered and didn’t question the bullshit work. I got similar performance out of the vocational and tech school grads. But the computer science grades. For some reason felt the entry level position was beneath them. Wanted to reinvent the wheel, and really seemed to lack initiative in any area unless it was for personal gain not the customers. Left a very bad taste in my mouth. Now I really look hard at people with no experience and definitely no degree.It’s nots like the work wasn’t challenging. There were plenty of opportunities to challenge oneself. They could have done a great deal to automate the mundane tasks they had to do and at least once a day there were troubleshooting opportunities in which they could have really dived into the inner workings of how systems work and how to troubleshoot them. Personally I feel there's a profound difference between thoughing something out and staying in a job that doesn't make you happy. I would leave a job because I'm not challenged or things are too easy. Both make me unhappy. I would not quickly quit a job because it's too hard. That's just a challenge to tackle. The same goes for loyalty. That's very explicitly a two way street, but research indicates that most employees take their relationship much more personal than employers. To most, you're just an asset. If so, you breed zero loyalty. I’m of a different mindset. I don’t think anyone else or anything else is responsible for your happiness. Only you are responsible for your happiness. Happiness in my mind is self created. It’s a choice. If you choose to be happy, you’ll be happy. If you don’t you won’t. I try not to let anyone else or anything else get control or own me or my emotions like that. It’s what my father always taught me and it’s what I pass along to my children. It makes life so much more rewarding. Not to mention that mindset helps you not be letdown when you don’t get what you want. Of course there’s shit that happens that’s egregious. Death, accidents, mean people. It’s healthy to have those feelings and express them. But not in an unhealthy manner. You have to move on eventually. Another thing to note is that the market has changed. It used to be common to work 10 or 20 years for the same boss. Now, that's becoming ever rarer, but that's as much caused by employers as it is by employees.I know. I’ve had 5 different supervisors since I started with this career at my company. One who passed away 3 years ago. I don’t see how it’s caused by employers. Aren’t people responsible for their own decisions. I can understand changes in benefits, salary, and layoffs. I’ve always been of the mindset to bust my rear to make myself irreplaceable. It means doing anything when asked, learning whatever you can to better yourself and add value. It’s kept me out of layoffs. I guess I’m just from a different period.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 11:58:58 am
content: How can people be responsible for their own decisions if these decisions are made for them? You should realize that different countries have very different legal frameworks, which have profound implications for employers and employees. Job stability can be very different in different countries. This means that letting people go is sometimes financially beneficial to the company, which happens with complete irrespect of their performance. Obviously, the less secure your job or the entire job market is, the more likely it is you take opportunities to improve the situation for yourself. Like you say, you're responsible for yourself and making yourself happy.Choosing to be happy sounds passive. I don't think I'd like an employee who doesn't strive to improve things for himself and others much.

author: michael.spivack.50
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 12:32:36 pm
content: I think we’re not going to agree on this concept. And that’s ok. I’m just speaking from my own perspective. There’s no possible way we are going to agree on everything. These are just my own personal observations and experiences. But what you queried below does leave me with some confusion. As I’m sure my reply might have done the same to you.How can people be responsible for their own decisions if these decisions are made for them? Is this English? I don’t think anyone else is responsible for my own decisions. I make them myself no one makes them for me. Maybe you were trying to say something else. I’m not sure. You should realize that different countries have very different legal frameworks, which have profound implications for employers and employees. .Oh I definitely accept that not just countries but even in the US different states have different legal frameworks that govern how employers and employees interact and and conduct work. I think I am mainly focusing on free Democratic societies in which people for the most part have a choice in their employment decisions. For the most part I don’t think anyone is forced to work in a field or profession . Job stability can be very different in different countries. This means that letting people go is sometimes financially beneficial to the company, which happens with complete irrespect of their performance. Obviously, the less secure your job or the entire job market is, the more likely it is you take opportunities to improve the situation for yourself. Like you say, you're responsible for yourself and making yourself happy. Absolutely. It’s a large motivating factor of why I’ve stayed where I am for so long. I got laid off about 2 years after I got my first job in the military. It occurred to me then as much as it does now that I had to change what I was doing to make it darn near impossible for an employer to want to lay me off. Layoffs don’t happen in a vacuum. There is a deliberate decision process that happens with active input from supervisors and other employees not impacted. I’m sure there’s times where it’s unavoidable. I don’t think that’s all the time. Usually that occurs when it’s much more catastrophic like a company is going bankrupt or under an acquisition or merger. Choosing to be happy sounds passive. I don't think I'd like an employee who doesn't strive to improve things for himself and others much.Actually choosing to be happy or mad or sad is the most active decision a human can do. Allowing others or things to influence your feelings is very passive.Of course striving to make things better is in my mind would be a decision and a positive one. But who do you think is more likely to strive to make positive change. Someone who sits around and complains or someone who identifies the problem and becomes the change.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 12:53:11 pm
content: Yes, it is English. I've sent you a message, because I don't want to broadcast the specifics on the forums.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 01:50:10 pm
content: Well 5 years is 260*7+6 or 260*7+7 days. So if the interview is on Monday, you can tell them, that you will be at home, enjoying the weekend.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 02:11:22 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 13, 2017, 01:50:10 pmI think they'll both be somewhat worried and impressed if you do that off the top of your head.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 10:15:16 am
content: What will I be doing in five years time? I have an engineering friend who would answer that perfectly. He is an Oz who permanently lives in the US in the US who works on 5 year plans over the last 40 years. My friend has done extraordinarily well in life - business, financially, family etc.18 year old Jesse Martin was an Oz who circumnavigated the world in 1999. He almost died off the coast of Perth in a wild storm as he was nearing the end of his voyage. When interviewed he said something along the lines of, "If I died, that won't be a tragedy because I died loving what I was doing, living my dream. A tragedy is someone who is near the end of their life and looks back and says, 'If only...'" It is a bit cliche. But there is some truth to it.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 11:29:08 am
content: I think this sums up this thread nicely.https://youtu.be/zP0sqRMzkwo

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 10:35:59 pm
content: I always hate that question because it's hard to figure out what they want. Me personally I don't like jumping around, so I am tempted to answer "in the same role", but for some employers, they may not like that because it will make me look lazy. But if I say "in a better role" then it will make them think they are wasting their time because they won't get to keep me for long or I'm just using them as a stepping stone etc. It seems there is no right answer to that question as it really depends their intention in asking it.I've been lucky myself when it comes to jobs though, either I'd turn out to be the only applicant, or I knew someone and the interview process was just formality and I knew I was getting it anyway. I find with most jobs it's who you know not what you know that matters. I was in an IT job for several years and when I left for another position I saw the job position come up to replace me, and I did not even quality for my own job.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:35:58 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 17, 2017, 10:35:59 pmDon't try to figure out what they want. A job interview is as much you interviewing them as it is them interviewing them. If there's no match, you will only suffer by pretending you want something they do not want. If answering the question the "wrong" way, you probably wouldn't have been happy anyway.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 19, 2017, 07:35:58 amThe big hint is in the name: inter-view, inter - between, view - looking.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 02:03:56 pm
content: Absolutely;Both the company must feel that it is in their benefit to hire you, as one must feel that it is a wise choice to work for that particular company.Having said that....in a market slump, or in an area where the jobs are scarce, or after a person has been unemployed for quite a while, unfortunately the companies have significantly much more leverage than the individual has.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 02:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 19, 2017, 12:51:47 pmApparently the origin is french:"early 16th century (formerly also as enterview ): from French entrevue, from s'entrevoir ‘see each other’, from voir ‘to see’, on the pattern of vue ‘a view’."

author: Old Don
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2017, 08:57:21 pm
content: I'll be (still) collecting social security, hopefully still playing around with electronics, if I'm not casting a fly on a trout stream. Drinking fine New York reisling wine to go with my wild trout dinner.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2017, 12:42:20 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on October 19, 2017, 02:03:56 pmThat's the main issue, these days getting a good paying job is hard, as most companies are in downsizing mode and doing mass layoffs, so if a good job comes up you want to bend over backwards for it. Should not be that way but sadly how it is.I see lot of IT/tech related jobs show up around here but most pay minimum wage. Some also have ridiculous expectations in hopes nobody applies, so that they can just hire a TFW. My favourite is when they want 10 years of experience in something that has not even been out that long.