is happening? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: israel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 03:43:22 pm
content: Much has been said about Chinese laboratory equipment, which on paper are equal to or better than other major brands.in this case there are similar ... ARE EQUAL.as I'm happy with my SIGLENT wave generator sdg-1020, I purchased a second generator (SDG-1025).in this forum you speak lecroy generators, but looking on ebay these generators observe a difference in price between them.there are real improvements in respect to SIGLENT vs lecroy?price differences are grotesquedatasheets are identical evenhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Siglent-wareform-function-Generator-Counter-SDG1025-2chs-25Mhz-125MSa-s-16K-AWG-/290876041558?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item43b9902956http://www.ebay.com/itm/LeCroy-WaveStation-2022-25-MHz-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Generator-/160904218038?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2576a385b6http://www.siglent.com/UploadFiles/en/Files/DataSheet/SDG1000_datasheet_en.pdfhttp://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/pdf/wavestation_datasheet.pdfRegards,

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 03:46:56 pm
content: They are obviously the exact same instrument. LeCroy is clearly trying to make money off their name without doing any actual design work by rebadging Siglents. Shame...

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 08:18:09 pm
content: It's very sickening to see the price difference. The internet put an end to import products costing FAR more than the retailer is charging. I'm an American, and as much as I hate to say it...I assume the U.S.A. must rank near the top of a fictional list titled, "Charges $xx.xx More-Than Actual Import Product Cost." Please, don't assume I don't know Lecroy is a French owned company, because I do. This thread just gave me a chance to put a microscope on top of import products and the horrifyingly high prices charges to frequently unsuspecting, hard working buyers.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 08:20:47 pm
content: "Frequently unsuspecting, hard working buyers" aren't the ones buying these turds.

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 12, 2013, 08:20:47 pmWhat do you mean?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:12:57 pm
content: These are for businesses and schools that refuse to buy anything from a brand they don't recognize. If Dick H. Jr. in Bean Counting thinks it's better to buy from LeCroy than Siglent, that's between him and Dick H. Sr. in management who hired him. No hard-working individuals are paying for these out of pocket.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: JimmyMz on August 12, 2013, 08:18:09 pmThe Swiss navy is now launching their warships ... LeCroy is (was) swiss... now owned by Teledyne

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 12, 2013, 09:12:57 pmThey probably are, but proxied by the Tax Faerie.

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 12, 2013, 09:23:44 pmWow, I unsuspectingly painted the picture of a practice I find greedy, and added an exception (i.e. French heritage), but after your post I Google searched. I found, "Teledyne Technologies, Inc. is an industrial conglomerate primarily based in the United States but with global operations," and now realize I never needed to add the exception. This type of overcharging on imported products is shameful!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 09:53:00 pm
content: Shameful to mark it up? Bullshit. Anybody who is in the business of selling things wants to make money doing it, that's kind of how selling works. If people still want to buy from them, who cares? You can still get the original from Siglent and spend closer to what it's worth, it's not like LeCroy has a monopoly on function generators.What's shameful is rebadging... It's always sad to see a business go from "test equipment company" to "money company".....

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 10:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: JimmyMz on August 12, 2013, 08:18:09 pmLeCroy was found in 1964 in Chestnut Ridge, New York ... And they still have their headquarter there.They started this Siglent/Atten re-badging before they were bought by Teledyne. Maybe to tart up the bride before the marriage. Oh, and by the way, Teledyne has its headquarter in Thousand Oaks, CA.Unless California and New York are now part of France they aren't a French company. They aren't a Swiss company either. They were and are an American company - ripping the world off since 1964 if you want to say so.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 10:56:06 pm
content: I think it's sickening because it means they haven't even bothered to engineer a decent product -- these Siglents are rife with bugs/problems, the PC software rarely works, plus they are generally very poorly made. This is a common issue with re-badged products, like LCD/LED TVs, DVD players, etc. with "Toshiba" and "Sharp" written on them, are 99% rebadged products from China or somewhere else, only higher end are in-house engineered. So you get same quality as supermarket product, but at 50% more!

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2013, 11:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on August 12, 2013, 10:10:10 pmCould you have been bothered to read the whole 1 page thread? It appears you missed something. Trying to be a smart-ass works much better when you're fully informed. Although, I think you did a great job on the Google search information you provided.@c4757p You asked who cares, and I raised my hand. Just because a product sale doesn't (absolutely) effect me, I still have empathy for others facing greedy sales tactics. I suppose we are polar opposites on this topic, and that's fine. As far as I'm concerned, tame disagreements are okay.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 03:26:23 am
content: It's the old adage, "Nobody ever got fired for buying (IBM / HP / Intel)"IBM computersHP PrintersIntel processors

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 03:32:12 am
content: It's "nobody ever got fired for buying (IBM / HP / Intel)" combined with "who cares if we make products as long as we make money".Quote from: JimmyMz on August 12, 2013, 11:16:54 pmI can understand that. I don't really think anyone's facing greedy sales tactics, to be honest - it's their own dumb choice to buy the thing at a higher price even though a cursory look at Google would tell them they could get it for less. But I will agree that there is at least a slightly dodgy element to it. Like I said, they've become a "money company" rather than a "test equipment company". You know as a business owner that your business is a shell of what it once was, when your "customers" no longer own any of your products...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 03:36:44 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on August 13, 2013, 03:26:23 amWe need to change this. I say they should be run out of town with a LaserJet strapped to their backs...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 03:38:04 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 13, 2013, 03:32:12 amWell HP rebadges Rigol, VW rebadges the Dodge Caravan as the Routan, Porsche rebadges the VW Tuareg as the Cayenne.It happens.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 03:44:17 am
content: All of those are sad. I don't think they'rewrong, just sad.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 05:20:55 am
content: Quote from: JimmyMz on August 12, 2013, 11:16:54 pmI did, but In your xenophobia you couldn't even be bothered to do a google search to inform yourself.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 11:59:38 am
content: And why doesn't this forum have a :popcorn smiley?Anyways, on topic this sort of rebadging is indeed a bit silly. But then again so are lots of other things in the wonderful world of commerce. You can always vote with your wallet and buy the moderately priced Siglent instead of that piece ofFrenchAmerican overpriced gear.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 01:43:16 pm
content: Wow. I expected a price difference, to pay for the after sales service, warranty, etc. of the LeCroy brand. But a six-fold difference isn't just a mark-up. It is gouging, plain and simple. They are fleecing their customers who expect a genuine LeCroy engineered product. Disgusting.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 02:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on August 13, 2013, 01:43:16 pmTrust me, genuine LeCroy engineering is not that good. In fact, it's not good at all.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 07:26:32 pm
content: Reminds me, I did see a Porsche Cayenne that got hit on the driver's door by a 3.5 ton HiAce. He went 50m down a road normal to the direction he was going, and the taxi went through the building I was living in. With having the impact on the door the driver was fine, even if his brand new ( sub 500km ) vehicle was bent like a banana. All the airbags deployed, side, curtain, dashboard, side bolster and seatbelt tensioners. With all that the drivers door still opened, closed and latched even though it was the impact point along with the A pillar. his insurance was definitely not happy, as the taxi was of course uninsured, and they needed 5 ambulances to handle the injured in it, along with the driver having vanished into thin air. Police arrested him later.

author: israel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 10:00:53 pm
content: I assumed it lecroy was a brand very serious in the world of laboratory instrumentation. but would have to know what came first... the chicken or the egg.who copied whom?siglent or lecroy was before?although I think siglent (about this generator) was already in the market before lecroy.Regards

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 11:03:07 pm
content: <suppose the brand Technologytronics is a well known, widely used scope company, and I am a product manager>I call Rigol, and order 10,000 DS1074Z's, at $400 each, and go ahead and sell them for $3000 each. Despite a recent review by Dave, scathing it for outrageous re-branding, my local university purchases 100 of these brand-spanking new scopes.This is the ugliest form of re-branding, which LeCroy very frequently does. Sure, for your low-end products, rebranding, and adding $100 to your MSRP is fine. But over 6x? No. So, the final verdict: LeCroy is full of shit. And frequently, many universities just go ahead and purchase these products, just because of the brand.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 11:13:13 pm
content: Boohooo "such shameful behavior"Don't tell me you would do exactly the same thing in their situation.Someone walks up to and says "I'll pay $300 for your $50 widget". Are you going to say no?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2013, 11:58:28 pm
content: Quote from: marshallh on August 13, 2013, 11:13:13 pmI would not do the exact same thing.I would balk at the suggestion of letting them have it for $300. I would insist to let them have it for $299.99. Because monkey brains are stupid and only delicious when chilled.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2013, 07:55:51 pm
content: Quote from: JimmyMz on August 12, 2013, 08:18:09 pmI don't get what is sickening about it, or what is wrong with being near the top of a list of "who charges more above import costs". Being in business is expensive. Being in business in the USA is very expensive, considering our labor, taxes and insurance costs.If a company is charging an exceptionally high price for something, then that is a market opportunity and someone can undercut them and make sales wins all day. Isn't that the American way, and what capitalism is all about?Notably, the Siglent unit says "5 sold". The LeCroy? None sold.Ain't capitalism great?