Together United For A New Internet! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2014, 06:32:37 pm
content: So I Will just throw it out there LETS MAKE A NEW INTERNET! We Need A new one, Just LOOK at what they are doing to us!!http://www.extremetech.com/computing/189539-the-great-internet-slowdown-join-tomorrows-protest-against-the-fccs-new-net-neutrality-rulesJust Some Quotes! ...Tomorrow, September 10, will mark the first great Internet Slowdown... ...where some websites load more slowly than others if you don’t pay your ISP some extra money...Do You Want this? Do you want to Try To Stop It? What are the chances that people standing up will do ANYTHING to these Big, Powerful, Rich, Successful, "web’s largest companies"?!? Really you think you can do something to stop them?So who wants to start Over!? Yeah, We will most likely start at 56k, We will need to make new sites, And we Will need servers! But! But! We CAN Do It! Heck I can help with TWO of the problems already, I am one of an ENTIRE class at my school learning to make websites I KNOW that I can Get a couple of them to help us out and make sites, And Yeah I am only 16 But I DO have 10 UNUSED SERVERS! That is 40 CORES Of processing power, I Have 1800 FEET OF Fiber-Optic Cable, Heck Ya I am a Computer Geek! And I LOVE it!So Who Is With Me? We CAN Do It!! We Will all go down in history FAMOUS!! WE WILL!!"Lets Make A New One"Face Book Page:http://www.extremetech.com/computing/189539-the-great-internet-slowdown-join-tomorrows-protest-against-the-fccs-new-net-neutrality-rules

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2014, 06:57:22 pm
content: Good luck with that.

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2014, 07:00:55 pm
content: I Will try to be on the chat often if you want to chat(I live in the USA to try to give you a timezone idea)

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 10, 2014, 07:32:39 pm
content: I suppose you are connected with a device like the picture in attachment.I don't complain about speed, I can download 1GB in 1 minute

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 01:00:46 am
content: The problem is not speed, I Mean Just Look At The Top Link!!

author: Alex30
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 01:22:47 am
content: Hahaha, is this a joke?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 01:55:22 am
content: Change provider and problem solved, give money to who treats you better. Not all internet providers are cable companies.

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 02:55:32 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 11, 2014, 01:55:22 amYour flag shows that you are in the US. In that case, for high speed internet, you should very well know that sometimes the only provideristhe cable company, or the phone company, or some unwritten agreement between the two.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 03:49:43 am
content: Quote from: true on September 11, 2014, 02:55:32 amYour flag shows that you are in the US as well, in that case you should know that those supposed unwritten agreements will just open the doors to competition like say Google Fiber perhaps? and they will just take over.Sure they will try to stop small towns for trying to provide cheap fast internet. But not much they can dohttp://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/29/us-telecoms-fcc-block-high-speed-internet-chattanoogaEdit: I know, the guardian is not the best of sources

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 03:54:14 am
content: Quote from: eurofox on September 10, 2014, 07:32:39 pmI don't think I could stand going back to that kind of slow throughput.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 04:03:51 am
content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet2

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 07:48:09 am
content: Quote from: coppice on September 11, 2014, 03:54:14 amOne G Byte not Bit, this is not slow for an home connection

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 08:12:44 am
content: Quote from: eurofox on September 11, 2014, 07:48:09 amIn a minute! not in a second thats about 133Mbps, Still not bad

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 09:37:34 am
content: If someone could crack a method for easily and cheaply doing multiple point to point and secure connections between wireless devices over large distances, you could remove most of the need short of the international back-ends and rural areas, for ISP's,This would allow essntially free to use local internet, but congestion and speed problems would be interesting to see how they could be overcome,

author: Cside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 10:52:30 am
content: Dont fight for net neutrality. You may win today but you will ultimately fail.Fight the system. Profit based capitalism lobbying politicians is the cause we all know it but we know we are all guilty in some way of being seduced by it so we dont admit it.anyway win that war, and you solve many of todays woes.

author: Alex30
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 01:31:19 pm
content: Yes, we know that net neutrality is terrible, but proposing to set up your own net 2.0 with a couple of server boxes is quite funny

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 06:23:54 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on September 11, 2014, 04:03:51 amI knew about the internet 2 BUT it is only for universitys collages and the governmentNOT the public

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 06:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 11, 2014, 06:23:54 pmSo was internet 1In any event, the internet was designed to have priority bits to begin with, it was never intended to be free. Takes money for adding infrastructure and maintenance cost.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 07:43:13 pm
content: Well, in the US little is government owned, if any of it, not sure how much of ARPANET carries data nowadays.According to wikipedia, current Tier 1 carriers are:Level 3 Communications, TeliaSonera International Carrier, CenturyLink, Vodafone, Verizon, Sprint, and AT&T CorporationThey are not subsidized here, maybe where you are at, and I don't ever recall the government spending in internet infrastructure using taxpayer's money (unless it's the NSA I guess but that's a total different story).

author: Biff383
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 07:43:36 pm
content: Best I can do now for speed is going thru wireless... (sprint). It sucks but is still better then DSL. I wish I could get cable. Had it loved it ....moved. And I live within 5 miles of 250000 people or more.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 08:07:27 pm
content: They are multinationals, so who really knows who owns them.Anyways, that wasn't your question and yes I could look it up to see if foreign money is in the internet infrastructure, I'm pretty sure it is but I'm not going to even bother to look because you will have some other objection later about something else and there will be no end.Edit: changed my mind because I already did answer it before:Tier 1 US:Swedenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeliaSonera_International_CarrierBritishhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodafone

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 08:30:13 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 11, 2014, 06:59:46 pmThere are many private internets by usingwiki: [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_network .Exchange true random bits (TRNG) between a few members and they can make very secure VPNs using existing network, so there are many internets for years

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 10:20:28 pm
content: There is as well an "hidden" internet face that you cannot access with google and similar search engineshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Web

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 10:56:43 pm
content: Both TCP and UDP have a priority flag and a priority pointer that can be used to monetize speed. It never has been used as far as I know but I bet hardware will respect it since it's part of the protocol.Edit: Why is this thread under projects anyways?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 11:44:41 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 11, 2014, 10:56:43 pmBecause the kid is under the mistaken impression that by posting in a few forums he can gather the insane funding and technical knowledge required to start his own internet.

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 01:37:51 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 12, 2014, 11:44:41 amWhy would this take an insane amount of money? I am not planning on running new wire.

author: Alex30
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 01:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 12, 2014, 01:37:51 pmDo you know what an internet backbone looks like? Picture a couple of levels of an office building, filled to the ceiling with supercomputers.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 01:45:45 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 12, 2014, 01:37:51 pmThen how is it going to be a new internet which isn't under the control of the very companies you're complaining about?Either you have your own infrastructure and your own rules, or you're still paying someone else for the privilege of being told how fast you can go.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 02:24:52 pm
content: If you get a land line and use the fastest modem you'll still pay around $30/month if you are lucky with no long distance and throttled back to 56Kbps. That is progress!Meh.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 03:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 12, 2014, 01:37:51 pmThe article linked in your original post is not complaining about servers or web pages causing problems, it's complaining about the companies that control the pipe that connects those servers to each other. Setting up a few servers that host a few html pages doesn't change anything if they still use the same monopoly-controlled bandwidth-throttled pipe to send that information to somebody on the other side of the country/world.

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 03:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on September 11, 2014, 03:54:14 amMight have to put Aunt Bee back on the switchboard too! (for those who have no clue who Aunt Bee is, she's the switch board lady on the Andy Griffith Show - Mayberry Sitcom)

author: Justin567
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 05:26:28 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on September 12, 2014, 03:21:28 pmBut we would use the phone service. What will they do, make out phone calls sound bad?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 05:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 12, 2014, 05:26:28 pmModems don't work very well through voice codecs. So yes, that is literally what they'd do.Yes, phone backbones are going digital. They run on the internet.Do you begin to see the problem?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 05:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: Justin567 on September 12, 2014, 05:26:28 pmWho are you planning to call? An ISP? Then you're back to square one.Even for point-to-point connections, the same cable companies control the phone lines too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 05:29:17 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on September 12, 2014, 05:28:19 pmWhy, the datacentre he can throw together with some spare wire and a couple servers which were abandoned as out of date last decade, obviously..

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 05:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 12, 2014, 11:44:41 amyour post is just as useful as my earlier (deleted) posteven if he get the funding no matter how rich mr america is, this is pure lunacy. but i can sense there are hidden supporter(s) lie in this (very technical) forum/thread.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 07:48:02 pm
content: Quote from: Alex30 on September 12, 2014, 01:43:13 pmWait... what?Do YOU know what an internet backbone looks like? That's not what the one where I work looks like. Lots of teal plastic, blinky lights, blue-lit leaf logos, and patch panels. Not so much computers. (Just a few, really.)

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 08:12:26 pm
content: Quote from: SirNick on September 12, 2014, 07:48:02 pmGee... I thought a backbone was where all the OC48's & OC192 Mux's and assorted hardware hungout!

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 08:17:54 pm
content: Yup. That's pretty much the case. Impressive by the sheer scale, but it's pretty much just where channels of traffic come in or jump off. Not much place for computation. Mostly the domain of ASICs. (Despite all the hub-bub about software defined networking and the like.)

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 08:41:51 pm
content: No thickwire anymore those were the days (10Base5), now the backbone is all fiber opticshttp://dimbox.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/the-real-geography-of-the-internet-and-how-its-done/And a picture of a underground fiber trunk that some construction crew accidentally cuthttp://geeksontour.blogspot.com/2006/08/cut-cable-dead-website.htmlalthough to me they look like twisted pair copper

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 10:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: jlmoon on September 12, 2014, 03:42:52 pmNo. Aunt Bee was Andy's aunt. The telephone operator (who was never seen) was named Sarah.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 10:44:54 pm
content: What about a scalable wireless P2P mesh network? Not really a replacement for the Internet but rather an addition that makes the most sense in densely populated areas. The mesh network itself can use existing technologies like 802.11 as well as more unusual technologies like zapping lasers between neighboring buildings. Also make good use of storage and computing power which both have evolved orders of magnitude faster than typical Internet services.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 10:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 12, 2014, 08:41:51 pmHm, I'm pretty sure what we're seeing here is the formative stage of the stomach ulcer in the foreman whose job just wentwayover budget.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 11:00:21 pm
content: How do you think the Internet got to where it is now? Companies invested in communications facilities (e.g. fiber, routers, exchanges with other ISPs, etc). And now they expect to make money operating them. There is no real reason why more companies cannot enter the mix and compete for business as carriers. But it will take big investments, and the shareholders will want to get paid. And the cost of entry is way higher now than it was in the early 1990s, when the first commercial ISPs were operating on leased 56K and T1 lines (remember, this was more-or-less pre-WWW so it was mostly FTP, SMTP, and NNTP).If you are serious, then you need to write an excellent business plan explaining how you will justify the investment. Then find some investors and get to work. This will not be a hobby but will probably take over your life for some years if you do it well.Start by finding out what went wrong withMFS.

author: Alex30
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 02:54:55 am
content: Quote from: SirNick on September 12, 2014, 07:48:02 pmHaha, I guess not. I have just seen photos. Regardless, not something that one could replicate with a couple of server racks lol

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2014, 11:48:16 am
content: it's funny that cable ad revenue is down year on year and internet ad revenue is growing massive year on year.QuoteThe whole flow of ad revenue is changing and I suspect the losers are the ones pushing for a 2 tier system so they can fleece the money off the big winners.