UNI-T Bench Oscilloscopes: How are they? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2011, 10:27:21 pm
content: So I was looking around on eBay and I saw a lot of "nice looking" Uni-T oscilloscopes for very cheap. For example, $375 shipped:http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UNI-T-UTD2102CEL-1G-Digital-Oscilloscope-100MHz-/330611285911?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item4cf9f7df97And there are also ones that are around $300 shipped.I've seen some very good Uni-T equipment, (and some not so good). How do you think these are?Thanks.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2011, 11:10:15 pm
content: Why not use the search function first? This and many other cheap oscilloscopes have been discussed here in the past. Multiple times. E.g.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1331.msg17306#msg17306By the way, you happen to point to the eBay shop of that guy who recently spamvertised his web site with a pseudo-article about engineers using cheap voltage testers. Do you buy from spammers? I don't.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2011, 12:19:52 am
content: My personal "do and do not rules" forbids me about getting a new bench type equipment from any foreign country.I do count on the warranty plan, because the complex or heavy devices gets easily damaged from accidents in the transportation.Unfortunately there is no much of reviews about the UNI-T tools worldwide,and there is a good reason for that.The UNI-T plan is to dominate the Chinese market, they have all ready 3000 retailers in 72 major in size Chinese cities.Looks like that they do not care that's much for the west world, speaking about getting fame.Even so there is an international distribution network, respectable local retailers offer those products,with warranty and support.Just find one.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2011, 11:46:25 am
content: There are several reviews on eevblog of UniT scopes, none of them exceptional. There is also a review of a past model on youtube from a Philippine user.As B@W says, check eevblog archives. These reviews were not for the model you post, but of older ones. Things could change, and makers could improve but as it stands UniT is a risky buy, if you want an instrument that lives up to its spec sheet, so you are left with is this a gamble you are willing to take? Recently a user bought a Siglent scope, check the thread, and it was never reviewed here until he got one, but it was thought to be risky, what he posted suggests then showed subtle defects that wouldn't be noticed unless you know scopes. However, a more recent Atten scope, made by the same company, as posted and reviewed works better.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2011, 11:32:07 pm
content: Right. Well I have seen some good Uni-T things, but it's kind of one of those companies where I'm just not confident enough to completely trust. Like Fluke is the gold standard of DMMs and Agilent and Textronix lead the O-scope market, etc. Uni-T does not get that respect, and probably for good reason...BUT, if you've ever looked inside some of test equipment, you will probably realize that there is a pretty big markup. While there is a lot of research going on, $50,000 for an O-Scope? I'm sure tons of research and money went into it, and there had to be some excellent QC while making it, but in the end, these companies are still making a crapload of money.Uni-T could still be doing the research, but instead are catering to a different market. Small electronics manufacturers and repair shops cannot afford to buy equipment that is thousands upon thousands of dollars...because likely it doesn't matter if they are 0.5% off on their measurements. Because they cannot really compete in the upper segment, they price their equipment in the hobbyiest/smallscale sector where they have a much better chance at dominating their particular sector. They do this by keeping prices low.Just a theory. Just because it's cheaper, doesn't mean it's crap. And I'm not defending Uni-T. This applies to a lot of cheap test equipment like Atten, Rigol etc.But on the topic, I don't think I really want a Uni-T scope after looking around a little bit. The Rigols do look like more of a value, though physically they look like they belong in a different decade, but that's besides the point.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 12:56:59 am
content: FenderBenderI think that you are a bit confused .... no one cares at the low priced tools about fame and kings.All that you should do, is to find the device with the proper specifications for your needs.If you find that at the UNI-T products or elsewhere , just get it.But never from the other side of the world, get it locally.

author: gregariz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:08:53 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on September 12, 2011, 11:32:07 pmThey are making alot of $ but they have to. The Agilents, Teks and Flukes will be paying their design engineers ~100K a piece. They are all publicly owned heavily bureacratic companies with an army of managers, execs, sales and marketing functions that need to be paid. Their tooling costs are high in the 10's of K's everytime they make a mold. Their target customers are corporate and aerospace clients, whose contracts are large enough to warrant throwing down for 10 off 30K scopes at a time. Agilent routinely charges over 100K a piece for some of their gear, but even then they weren't making enough for HP to want to keep them. The dribs and drabs that they sell to SME's, cashed up individuals or rental places are just extra's... but make no mistake the corporate clients are what pay their bills.Some of the chinese stuff like Extech's higher end are aimed at corporate customers, but alot of what you see on ebay is aimed at SME's and hobbyists. Alot of these chinese companies are privately held, pay their people 1/10th of what the big guys do and are as lean as you like in terms of management.What any company makes often has very little to do with whether it satisfies most customers functions. Its about satisfying those with the $. IMO while some of the ebay stuff is cheap junk but most of it will be fine for the average user. You can also do pretty well if you don't need the latest bells and whistles just by buying second hand ex-corporate stuff.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:19:45 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on September 12, 2011, 11:32:07 pmyou can perfectly buy a piece of crap, best example are DSOs fromOwon - all these PDS/EDU crap of seriesHuatest (www.huatest.cn) HT100A/HT100BJingce-sz (jingce-sz.cn) JC1102TA/JC1102CALongwei (http://hklongwei.en.alibaba.com/lol, even no company website) - LW2102BMCH (http://mchinstruments.itrademarket.com/) - DS-2100CAthey didn't worth even a single line of text here - but they costs exact the same as UNI-T UTD2102CEL.So looking from that point UTD2102CEL is a good scope.There is of course , as always, something what i don't like - when you buy older hw revision of CEL modelyou will see how crappy they are - and probably never ever see firmware update (you have to be carefull, manydealers have still these old revisions). When you buy new revision you have to worry about your live, the powersupply or better said how it has been mounted a 1cm above main PCB is just a bad joke. Oh, and of coursethe new revision have still the same crappy firmware.Sure UNI-T will work, and of course you can measure/work with such DSO a light years better as with these"no idea what kind of toy DSOs they are" listed above - but is it worth money? I don't know, a cheap Siglent/Atten is probablybetter choice.Btw, if i would buy a toy DSO, then it will be probably LUCK3 from realt.cnThis toy costs 120USD and is just pure fun toy-like DSO. Actually Realt is not a real manufacturer, they selling rebrandedthings, no idea who is the original designer. Realt.cn is for example having rebranded Tekway DSOs, and they even a bitcheaper than directly from Tekway, somehow funny.

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:21:17 am
content: What is your application and purpose for purchasing this UNI-T oscilloscope? Is it you just want one to collect as a hobby? I have read, the UNI-T oscilloscope is very close to an wide screen Atten with 100 MHz and the sampling rate is different. UNI-T listed it as 50 Gsamples/s equivalent and 1 GSamples/s real time. Most entry level, low priced oscilloscopes are 1 Gsamples/s in equivalent mode and 500 Msamples/s in real time for $319.00 for Atten with 7 inch diagonal. The best on my table is an low priced Agilent 70 MHz DSOX 2002a with 1 Gsamples/s real time and 2 Gsamples/s in equivalent time. I do not trust the 50 Gsamples/s equivalent listing in the UNI-T. If your signal is less than 50 MHz, any of these budget oscilloscopes will work, even with an exaggerated specifications. I do not test oscilloscopes or write a consumer report on oscilloscopes, Dave Jones does a great job at the ones he owned and I have enjoyed the Yokogawa vertical style case models, DL1640L, others have reviewed on E Bay.These are all digital oscilloscopes, that they do not handle like the Tektronix 465 or early analog oscilloscopes. What do you mean about "they look like another decade?" The Owon have really slow sampling rates, but there is a battery option and they are as slow as the 20 Msamples/s Fluke Scopemeter 1-2-3. It should be based upon your project and the type of signal you are trying to view. You would not purchase a Tektronix MDO just to fix computer giant plotters, my example or help make seismographs for geology. Unless you are an oscilloscope collector.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:29:23 am
content: From the latest reviews I enjoyed more the Agilent oscilloscope dropping test .. LOL

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:43:54 am
content: Quote from: Lawsen on September 13, 2011, 01:21:17 amThe use as of now is just hobbyist work, though I will be majoring in EE when I graduate HS this year. (I'm young). The company I work for and the school I go to should have good equipment, but for hobby stuff that I'm still interested in...I'd kind of like me own.That was just a sly comment about it's appearance. Not actual specification.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:44:27 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on September 13, 2011, 12:56:59 amI might be confused though I don't get what you mean by ".... no one cares at the low priced tools about fame and kings. "

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:50:34 am
content: BK actually makes a pretty cheap scope these days. $450. It's not the best spec-wise, but I think you could trust the specs and the overall build quality, plus it's a US based company. I don't know much about o-scope terminology so maybe this is a real piece of crap, but I've been looking at it. BK generally has some very decently priced equipment.http://www.bkprecision.com/products/model/2530B/25-mhz-500-msa-s-digital-storage-oscilloscope.htmlThe only problem is: Although I'm 18, I'm still not quite free, and I'd probably have to consult my parents before making a $500 purchase. That's what I get for being 18 I guess.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:51:02 am
content: Quote from: Lawsen on September 13, 2011, 01:21:17 amyeah, these values are sometimes just random.I tested Tonghui TDO3062A, a 60MHz DSO with 200MSs real time and 40GSs equivalent mode - itwas able not only to trigger without any issues on 200MHz signal but it also reconstructed 250MHz signalwithout any wobbling effects in equ mode - so definitely properly implemented equ mode.A real 40GSs ? Well, probabaly not, but who cares, it worked much better as it should do.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 01:57:14 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on September 13, 2011, 01:44:27 amWell, some people like to buy stuff just for the bragging rights.In order to brag you need something famous.But as long you are still a student, you have all the time of the world so to research better your needs,and get the appropriate device.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 02:16:43 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on September 13, 2011, 01:57:14 amSo you're saying,Someone buys a $10,000 oscilloscope although they have no idea how to use it or what they will use it for, but they think they're cool because they have one?For an o-scope I don't need anything expensive. What I do need is some sort of "general purpose" oscilloscope, if such a thing exists. I A scope that works and will be reliable, as I'll probably never throw it away Granted $500USD is still cquite cheap for a decent bench DSO.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 02:49:16 am
content: Quote from: FenderBender on September 13, 2011, 02:16:43 amThis is what I have at the back of my head when I buy stuff, but this works only for DMM that is hardest for the manufacturers to come back with an interesting add on, that it will trigger me so to upgrade.By getting some expertness in the field, your needs they will grow too, and so do not think that much about what to get for now,soon enough you will sell it, so to get the better one..

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 06:29:13 am
content: Quote from: tinhead on September 13, 2011, 01:19:45 amhttp://www.hklongwei.cn- Dongguan Longwei Electronic Technology Co., Ltd, formally known as HK Longwei.And some more oscilloscope manufacturers: GAOtek, Ypioneer, Tonghui, Jiangsu Lvyang. All good candidates if you look for a luck bag.

author: Nermash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 09:05:35 am
content: You can guess how lucky you will be when they name their function generator "LW-1641 FUNC TION GENERATOR"... yes with a space:)

author: Kozmyk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 11:28:32 am
content: You've gotta love those "direct currency regulated power supplies" ;-)

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 02:47:55 pm
content: In that case, for $400 you could consider the Rigol 1052e, a conservative choice, US based subsidiary with local support, at least for warranty maintenance, and if you know how to deal, tequipment.net via the chat will work with you to lower price further.If you do not intend to hack it, then the Instek 1062a from the same vendor is only $10 more and has a better reputation.Quote from: FenderBender on September 13, 2011, 01:50:34 am

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2011, 11:35:06 pm
content: Kiriakos is correct that a local importer of the UNI-T oscilloscope is a lot more secure than purchase it from abroad in a shop at Hong Kong or mainland China. I have an Atten signal generator from a store in Hong Kong. My mother warned me that Hong Kong merchants tend not to accept returns and little consumer laws to protect you. If you are buying it directly from China or Hong Kong, then there are risks as mentioned by Kiriakos. I am Chinese American myself and I find there are risks. I bought some Sony Li ion batteries, IBM stylus pen for screen computers, and signal generator from China. All of these sales went well and the items are still functional after a few months, not a year, yet. If you like the lay out of the UNI-T and the specifications work for you and you have saved or worked enough for it, then buy it. We have seen just all types of oscilloscopes on this blog and we do not care much about the brand name. I like the low end battery powered Owon. I find for audio signals, perfect, no need for the Agilent DSOX 2002a to watch over it. Use, what works for you and when you practice the trade more, then you will have more money to spend on better instruments to your taste. There are so many low end brands to chose from. The Rigol 1052E and analog Tektronix oscilloscopes are the most admired in this website. The Tektronix MDO is like a dream to many just to try it. Tektronix has the best warranty policy, a life time replacement warranty from what I have read. Fluke has a great repair plan, too. We do not get any of these benefits with UNI-T, Owon, Atten, or Rigol. I do not know much about the service policy of Agilent, though I use one Agilent instrument on my cart. You are better off buying it from an importer near you and if there are problems with your instrument, then you have laws in your location protecting you with your sales record and bill. You are an individual that cannot afford to take a lost like a medium business. Be aware of exaggerated sampling rates that are too good to be true for the price. I was taught the Nyquist frequency to avoid aliasing, display wrong waveforms, if the sampling rate is twice your highest frequency signal.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 01:36:58 am
content: I'm sort of attracted to this B&K, but I'm not sure why. It's essentially a Tek 2001 scope, according to some sources, which I think would be a good thing. Maybe I'm just being an idiot, but although the Rigols, Owon, Atten scopes are typically fine, they still seem to run into more problems than their "big name" counterparts, which might have similar specs but are 2x the price.Again, I could be being dumb.

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 02:06:10 am
content: You are looking at brand names, but not what it has to offer to you. This conversation could go on forever, because there is always a new instrument on the market. Consider buying an oscilloscope on how the software feels to you. I like my Agilent DSOX 2002a 70 MHz, because of its software. I like the Owon, because it is battery powered. I like the analog Tektronix 465 for just plain simple click on the knobs and dial in what I want to view and no hassles with software and waveform shows up instantly. Get my digital camera and set it to marco mode and take a picture of the wave form. I am not going to write this listing more. The differences between an low end Tektronix 2000c at 70 MHz and other makes of the same from a place in China are the warranty and software. Every thing we mention is good as long as it is within the Nyquist frequency of your highest frequency to prevent aliasing, false wave forms. There is the function of calculus with Fourier transformation.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 02:26:13 am
content: Yeah I know. I'm inexperienced. Well we'll see when I get closer to actually buying it.By the way, how is the build quality typically on B&K scopes? I've seen good things on DMMs and other handhelds, but never scopes. Caps that won't leak? Good power supply? Safely wired? Brand-name silicon?Probably won't be til after Christmas and my birthday until I buy it. 18 years old means people still think I'm innocent enough to give me money.The joys of youth.

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 03:49:51 am
content: Tektronix 2012B instructions on how to use the USB to save a waveform and move it to the PC in French. The store in France for the Tektronix 2012B is Distrame S.A., 44 Rue des Noes, BP 618, 10089 Troyes, Cedex;www.distrame.frView here:Comparisons by Agilent; between a Agilent Infini-vision 2000 X series and the Tektronix TDS 2000c series oscilloscopes. The Tektronix 2000c series has a better warranty, if Tektronix is still around to help out in the future. I like them both, but can only afford and need one.View here:Atten ADS1102CML review:Atten has several models and the Atten ADS 1102CAL has a negative review from suspected noise in the internal oscilloscope's power supply electronics. The owner gave up on this Atten ADS 1102CAL and bought an analog oscilloscope and have been happier than the digital oscilloscope over this noise issue. What is your opinion and experience? Probe cable is not shielded from the manufacturer.B and K is good build quality, re-branded Chinese made oscilloscope. I do not have a B and K to show you as a tear down. You will need to contact the hosts or go to a B and K website to read about.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 05:12:48 am
content: A few Chinese dealers I met went out their way to help me with stuff unrelated to the sales. Not all dealers are like what your mom describe. It's a few of the rotten apples that made everyone look bad. There are many crap sellers on ebay too. Before you buy a large ticket item, all you have to do is to start a conversation with the seller. Talk to the person about the item, act dumb, and do your homework by judging.If you get prompt reply you are mostly safe. I met some great friends whom I've never seen this way.Use your common sense! Don't buy an oscilloscope from a seller who sells usb-mug-warmer, fluffy teddy bear keychain, 5mm brightest led light. Buy from someone who know what they are selling. Use the feedback, read the reviews. You are probably not the first.ebay is not the only place on the interweb. Use Google and search for mobile phone repair supplies store. These stores usually deal with electronic tools. That's it, I am sick of stupid stories of how dumb people get con on the interweb, use common sense, use your credit card protection and insurance. Don't rely on Paypal when shit happens.ith electronic tools. That's it, I am sick of stupid stories of how dumb people get con on the interweb, use common sense, use your credit card protection and insurance. Don't rely on Paypal when shit happens.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 06:25:38 am
content: Quote from: nukie on September 14, 2011, 05:12:48 amThere is only so much you can do to protect you. Yes, people get conned because they do incredibly dumb things. But some get conned, because the scam was clever and they were caught off-guard for just a second. Maybe because their mind was busy with some serious issues, or the kids just disturbed for a moment.You can't deny there are a lot of criminals out there. I my opinion, sites like eBay even worked as a catalyst, a "school" of criminals. A whole generation of kids learned on eBay how to do simple scams, e.g. sell the package, not the content, and get away with them, because law enforcement doesn't care about that internet thing, and international law enforcement doesn't care about an individual losing a few thousand $$$.With Chinese scam artists there is probably also a cultural element ("Service? we ain't do no stinking service, we want your money"), and a sense of historical entitlement ("for decades the west stole from us, now it is our turn").I haven't been conned personally on the Internet with a purchase - yet. And I mean the "yet". I am sure with so many criminals out there sooner or later someone will manage to do that. I do my part to make sure it is later, but I don't believe for a second it will never happen. Believing it can't happen to you makes you vulnerable.So I don't use PayPal. I check vendors before buying. I apply "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is". I do a lot of other things, like a separate credit card and whatnot. But I am prepared to get conned at some time.Part of me and my family's preparation for that is the same preparation I once learned about investing money. Never invest money you can't afford to lose. I only buy on the internet with fonds set aside and can be afforded to lose. Mentally the money is treated as already lost. It is kind of reverse screw-you money. The world will not come to an end when someone manages to screw me on the internet.And when I will get screwed I will go out on the internet and tell others how dumb I was. I don't care if you don't want to hear it. Maybe someone else can learn from it and can avoid the particular mistake.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 11:15:44 am
content: I didn't get my message across sorry. What I mean is that there are also honest people who depend and make a living on the internet.I don't know about other countries but in Australia, police in the internet fraud division is very active in monitoring and governing. I have first hand experience unfortunately I am a victim of scam. Much due to my carelessness and also it was not expensive item. However, what I learned is that it's not easy to govern trades across borders.That is all I have to say sorry about going off topic. If the oscilloscope is made in my country, I would definitely support by buying locally. But in this case it is not, I buy it overseas much because local dealers here are too greedy(margin markup) in the first place. Who wouldn't appreciate local support and warranty? but I take my chances rather than emptying my wallet.

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2011, 09:59:30 pm
content: I think the only thing to do when you get scammed is to try and alert others so that they don't fall into the same trap:My contribution:Consumer warning: GoodLuckBuy.com

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2011, 02:26:45 am
content: Quote from: Lawsen on September 14, 2011, 03:49:51 amI actually haven't seen any B&K scope teardowns anywhere. I'd assume they'd be good, but you never know, especially with a new low(er) end scope like this...they might try something new. Who knows?