Rigol 1052E 50Mhz to 100Mhz doesn't work - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 01:07:34 am
content: I have the original 2.02 firmware on the Scope. I press Alt button and enter 010, Rigol or nothing else appears on the Hyper Terminal screen.Could someone be real specific as the exact cable I should be using. I was using a Serial Cable 9 pin male to 9 pin male (from desktop to Scope). I did not try to go from my laptop to the Scope as the laptop uses a 15 pin female.Please help me.All help will be very much appreciated.Sincerely,Soky157

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 01:41:40 am
content: As I said in the video it is a straight through cable. You might have a cross-over "null-modem" cable.Dave.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 01:47:35 am
content: Dave,You are my hero, I watch your Videos regularly. Could you please offer me a little more help.Soky157

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 03:46:32 am
content: Check pins 2 and 3 with a multimeter.On a null modem cable, pin 2 on plug A will be connected to pin 3 on plug B and vice versa.On a straight cable, pin 2 on plug A will go to pin 2 on plug B.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 04:52:45 am
content: Hello,It is definitely a Straight Thru cable.(It even says so on the packaging). 9 female on each end. One end goes to my Desktop PC and the other to the Rigol Scope.I hope this helps.Soky157

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 04:57:44 am
content: Are you entering 010 from the row of number keys across the top, or using your number pad? The number row generally doesn't work with the Alt trick.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 06:33:10 am
content: So many words before but simple:2 ----------------- 23 ----------------- 35 ----------------- 5My recommendation is that cable is not long, only < 3 meters. Cable shield is good to connect only one end (to connector metal ground) and other end isolated..Remember: 9600 baud, 8 bit, NO parity, 1 stop (not 1,5 or 2), no any kind of handshake. (very stupid but, this is Rigol way to do it)Before try any mod, try communicate with scope (normal documented command) enough time. Watch all errors, if you see ANY error in communication (example missing answer from scope or corrupted data) As long as you find any kind of error in communicaton do NOT mod!)If you see any or some errors after your training time then you need check PC - Rigol communication first. (one problem may be windows or computer RS232 port. (all RS232 ports are not good. Some are neraly or full out of original specifications. With other machines I have find this problem as long as there have be PC computers in world and I have make professional critical communication solutions lot of (mainly in old times)I recommend to use some kind of terminal software what can make Macros (you find many of these free in net)... so you make macro for whole strings what you need send. (this is good becouse if you need repeat you have ready strings and can not make typing errors)Then you send it by one mouse click. (one for serial, one for model)LF is always last character you send and remember also space is character!) LF is (decimal coded just as type with ALT 010) Some softwares read #010 for LF. (it is HEX coded 0A)Also remember that there is NO any kind of handshaking. So Rigol RS port is open all times. If you connect cable there may be some garbage inside buffer allready waiting next LF. (Connect cable first then power on to Scope)Go to system display just after you turn on scope. (do not send anything after power on in this time... )In system window send these 2 mod commands (exactly as you have see and better to send them as "macro" string), you see that things what you send change in display. Just as you send. If they do not, if both or just one do not follow you... shut OFF!(if you need repeat, even if example model or serial have already change as you want... you need send BOTH of these strings.Do not touch anything (now RUN/STOP is red)Send reset command.Run/stop change green. (if uou now try use scope it do not follow any key)Do not send anything to scope.Just turn it off and then on.If all is ok... nice... if not.. repeat (but first think if all serial communication is really ok and without ANY mistakes)There are many other way also to do this what maybee are ok. I do it this way...becouse <censored>I have experience of many mods with several 1052E's and still one machine do not work as others.. in this one machine serial numbers prefix (some numbers just after last letter in serial) is lot of different as others.But main thing: If you are not sure how to do or you have not good gnowledge and experience with serial communications. Make first lot of training with normal documented commands with oscilloscope, it is very safe and it can teach you how to do. After you are sure that all works just exactly without errors then you can try mod more safe. Windows hyperterm is possible most bad terminal what you ever can find. (But also it can use but it need extremely careful becouse all you type all go to port)For other communication solutions with windows and RS232 it is also good to read this Agilent note... (this is also qualid for Rigol's)Quote(yes, this is well known problem...)Thank you Mr Bill GatesYour pants are ....... in every corner with problems.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 08:47:23 pm
content: Yes, I am using the numeric keypad on the right of my keyboard to press 010. How long do I keep the Alt key pressed?Thank you very much,Soky157

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2010, 11:08:16 pm
content: You hold the alt key the entire time you are entering the 010.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 01:18:10 am
content: Thanks for all your replies. I have tried the things mentioned but as yet I am not able to get the ALT 010 to do anything get the Rigol from 50 to 100 mhz. Very disappointed.Sincerely,Soky157

author: mlaargh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 01:47:29 am
content: If I remember right, I had to use the top number keys for the alt-010 trick on an xp machine. The ten key pad to the right of the keyboard did not work for me. Did you try both ways?

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 02:56:29 am
content: Hello,Yes, I have tried both ways with no success.Soky157

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 03:28:58 am
content: At what point should I have the Rigol Scope Turnen ON? Watching the Video I could not tell for sure. Also, When holding down the Alt key while typing in 010...how long at that point should I hold Alt in?Sincerely,Soky157

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 04:29:07 am
content: You can have the scope turned on at any time, just connect the serial cable and go.You hold down ALT type the numbers and then release ALT. Make sure you have NUM LOCK turned ON.Someone mentioned that Crtl-ENTER works too, but I have not tried that.To test your serial port short out pins 2 and 3, you should see characters echoed back to you.Dave.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 04:52:54 am
content: Hi,When you say to test your serial port to short out pins 2 and 3. As I am very new to this and you are an Engineer could you please tell me how to do that? (the pins on the cable to my scope or to the Destop PC? Exactly how would I short them?Thanks for your help,Soky157

author: Waifian
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 12:15:45 pm
content: Just a wire from the pins 2 to 3 on the end of the cable not connected to your pc. Then with hyperterminal up and echo off see if you get characters on your screen when you type them on the keyboard. If that works then you know you are getting a signal through the cable. You still must check with a multimeters continuity tester that one end of the cable pins 2,3,5 go directly to pins 2,3,5 (these pin holes are labeled on the end of the cables next to the hole. ) on the other end to be sure it is really the right cable. Straight through cables are actually kind of hard to find I had to modify a regular one to work for myself.What are you going to be using this o'scope for?You do have a digital multimeter right?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2010, 01:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: soky157 on April 21, 2010, 04:52:54 amTake a piece of wire or a paperclip or something and insert into pins 2 and 3 on the connector at the scope end of the cable plugged into the PC forming a shorted loop. The numbers should be marked on the connector.I've got to say though, if you don't know how to short two pins, then I can't see why you'd need to do the mod and get the full 100MHz bandwidth!Dave.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2010, 01:50:03 am
content: Thank you for the explanation of how to short the pins I will do that and see what happens.This is a very friendly and helpful forum of people and I am very appreciative.Soky157

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2010, 03:56:33 am
content: In response to the question from Dave, if I dont know how to short two pins why would I want to mod to 100Mhz. I do know how to short two pins. I am adept in many things Electronic and Microcontrollers. What was not clear was pins from the PC Pins or the Scope Pins. The Serial Pins make since and that is what I will do.The puzzling thing for me (since I spent many years as a Teacher) is how degrading someone simply because they are brave enough to ask a question that is more than obvious to you. Consider yourself fortunate that you understand things that others are trying to HARD to learn.Honestly Dave, maybe it is not for you to "understand" me. Just a simple answer to a question is all that is needed. Please place your help with others on this forum that are up to your level.The help thus far from you is appreciatedSoky157

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2010, 05:31:34 am
content: Quote from: soky157 on April 22, 2010, 03:56:33 amNo offense intended, just trying to help as usual. In this case, there is potential risk in upgrading your unit, so I thought (and still think) that if someone had to ask a pretty basic question like that then there is probably more risk than usual that they could ruin their unit. I didn't want that to happen. If there was no such issue then I would not have questioned it.To be fair, your question was:QuoteYou did ask "how to do that" and said "I am very new to this", so it was very easy to interpret that as being from a complete beginner. So my apologies if you are not.RegardsDave.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2010, 10:31:35 pm
content: No worries Dave,I really do appreciate your taking the time to be concerned and helping me.Soky157

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 05:57:40 am
content: OK, here is what I have found out after following the most recent suggestions:1) I shorted out Pins 2 & 3 on Serial Cable unplugged from the Rigol Scope (Desktop Serial plugged in) Nothing that I typed in in Hyperterminal showed up on the Hyperterminal screen. (Echo was turned off)2) I tested for Continuity for Pins 2,3 5 (got the Continuity beep tones) they are connected together. This is a true Straight Thru Serial CableAny other suggestions?Thanks guys for all your helpSoky157

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 09:32:34 am
content: Quote from: soky157 on April 24, 2010, 05:57:40 amSounds like a problem with either the cable or hyperterminal. Did you select the correct serial port and disable all flow control? Did you verify that there's continuity between pin 2 and 3 on the PC side?Quote from: soky157 on April 24, 2010, 05:57:40 amAre pin 2,3,5 connected to the same pins on the other side, or are they shorted together (without you shorting them)? The latter doesn't sound right.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 06:18:18 pm
content: have u tried *IDN? command? if you get reply from rigol showing model and serial number, then your cable should be ok i think, correct me if i'm wrong.

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 06:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on April 24, 2010, 06:18:18 pmIf Hyperterminal isn't even working with a loopback, then the problem does not rest with the scope. It's a computer or cable issue.I suggest to the thread author that you read up on wikipedia and other articles on basic serial communication. Look up the pinouts and different cable types, pay specific attention to how the RX, TX and GROUND wires are connected (all other pins are legacy and are never used in modern devices anymore). Then you will understand which pins are to be connected where and why, the questions here will make more sense, you'll understand the subject and hopefully get that scope modded safely.You might also consider that your serial port could be shot. Laptops especially are easy to blow the serial circuit. I did a lot of work with industrial serial devices in college and our desktop computers that were 3 years old had 50% dead serial ports from students plugging bad cables or wrong cables in. Consider purchasing a USB-Serial converter ($10-$20 USD) or try another computer.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 08:07:17 pm
content: Wow, thanks for all the suggestions.1)Pins 2,3,5 are connected to Pins 2,3,5 on both ends on the Straight Thru Serial cable. I put wires out of each those respective pins on each and used my Fluke 87III multimeter on the Continuity setting. All three Pins gave the continuity tone. So I know they are connected. (I hope that makes since)2) I used the same Hyperterminal setup this time as I used for for the Rigol Mod settings on Hyperterminal. Except I turned ECHO off as suggested from another Forum member. I chose Comm port 1. I am not sure what you mean by "did I select the correct Serial Port...I did not see that option in Hyperterminal. For Flow Control I chose NONE.3) I only tried the *IDN? command when I was trying to do the MOD a few days ago. I did not use the *IDN? for the testing purposes mentioned above.4) I am going from my Desktop to the Rigol Scope (not) my laptop.5) The Serial cable I a using I purchased from a Computer Cable Specialist store. They make Custom PC cables. This was not Custom but off the shelf and NEW. I have only had it one week.Thank you guys immensely for all your help.Soky157

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2010, 11:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: soky157 on April 24, 2010, 08:07:17 pmYou had to have seen the option to change the comm (serial) port. When you first open hyperterminal it requires you to set up your connection. You can load old saved connections or create a new one each time. Comm port 1 is not necessarily the comm port that your serial port is configured to. To be sure (I assume you're using Windows XP):Control PanelSystemDevice Manager (Look for comm ports and it will tell you which is hooked up)There are missing steps here, I've been using Linux for so many months now I don't remember how it goes anymore. That should get you there, though.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2010, 07:49:12 pm
content: Yes, I am using XP Pro. I will take a closer look and see what I find.Soky157

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2010, 11:21:21 pm
content: When you say that there are many more steps that I have not included you are correct. I am just telling you my choices at the beginning of the Mod when choosing the correct Com port. I have not ever been able to get past the *IDN? part because nothing is ever written to the Hyperterminal screen.In Device Mgr my Ports are listed as follows:a) Bluetooth Com4b) Bluetooth Com5c) Rim Virtual Port Com6d) Rim Virtual Port Com7

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 01:38:52 am
content: I don't believe any of those are an RS232 serial port. What is a RIM Virtual Port?

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 02:18:46 am
content: I can't remember ever putting anything on my PC that would setup a RIM Virtual Port...I don't know.

author: wd5gnr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 03:04:22 am
content: I think that's how a Blackberry syncs over USB maybe?

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 03:10:43 am
content: In any case, now you know why you don't have communication over comm 1. There is no comm 1!So next you need to figure out whether you need to install a driver for the com port, or maybe your computer wasn't ever intended to use it (would be weird). Easiest thing to do is just buy a USB to serial.

author: marianoapp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 03:48:47 am
content: why don't you mod the scope through usb?you have to installthisafter that execute the "VISA Interactive Control" and double-click the scope [it should be the only one under usb]you should see a window like this [Basic I/O tab]in the viWrite tab you have to write the command you want to send to the scope [such as *IDN?, :INFO:MODEL, etc.], and then press execute. You don't have to do alt+010 or anything else, just write the command and press execute. To read the response from the scope after executing a command go to the viRead tab and just press execute

author: wd5gnr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 12:06:02 pm
content: I wonder if you go into your PC's BIOS if your COM port is disabled? BIOS interfaces are all different but it is probably under something like Chipset | Integrated Peripherals or something like that?

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 07:57:06 pm
content: I will try what you have just suggested. But I just realized that maybe first I will try the Mod once more on my Wife's PC it is much newer. The desktop that I tried the Mod and got all these problems is very old (just wasn't thinking). I use a Gateway NX860XL Laptop (I mother this thing). I did try using the Laptop to Mod but didn't help either.Also, I have used the USB to Serial plug but was not successful that way either.Soky157

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2010, 09:46:01 pm
content: Quote from: soky157 on April 26, 2010, 07:57:06 pmBut did you check to be sure you were using the correct comm port?I think it would be best if you tried the USB method above. You can fry your stuff if you don't do this right.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2010, 05:30:11 am
content: I failed to mention in the my previous post that originally the COMM 1 port DID show up in the Hyperterminal choices. It is only the last couple of times I have opened up Hyperterminal that it no longer showing. The very first time I tried the the MOD COMM 1 did show up and I chose it from the list BUT the Mod the did not work.Yes, I have tried the USB to Serial route connected to my Laptop but with no success.All of this does not mean I will not try and try all you suggest again...I willSoky157

author: sigxcpu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2010, 12:19:17 am
content: soky, there is no "usb to serial route". you just put a standard usb cable between the computer and the scope.anyway, i would not do this mod if i were you. if you don't know exactly what you're doing you can damage the scope forever.

author: soky157
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2010, 08:38:05 pm
content: Hello by usb to serial, I was referring to one of those adapters that has usb on one end and serial on the other end. I was not aware that I could just go straight USB to USB from PC to Scope. My mindset was that at the very least I would need usb to the Scope and Serial from the PC.What is so bewildering with all this. Is using my desktop and my Laptop neither have been able to 'connect' to the Scope. Whether is I should continue with this mod may be food for thought. But I have got just to figure this out.Thanks for your input,Soky157

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2010, 03:58:20 am
content: Just connect by USB already (the port in the back). There's really no good reason to use the comm port after this much trouble.

author: kc1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2010, 03:21:01 am
content: Quote from: marianoapp on April 26, 2010, 03:48:47 ammarianoapp - wouldn't i need to enter \n for a linefeed after command?

author: marianoapp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2010, 03:59:32 am
content: i just tried it out and it work both ways..when i moded mine i didn't use the "\n" and it worked fine

author: kc1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2010, 07:26:22 am
content: Quote from: marianoapp on May 05, 2010, 03:59:32 amconfirmed! Thanks, I was able to convert to 100Mhz without using '\n' after each command. I just clicked execute.Thanks!

author: dealexcel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2010, 11:31:26 am
content: after dave published this video, our ds1052e's sales volume raised but ds1102e dropped

author: kc1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2010, 04:27:00 pm
content: Quote from: dealexcel on May 05, 2010, 11:31:26 amWell, if it's any consolation, I would never have purchased either model if I hadn't learned of the hack. I most certainly would not have purchased the 1102E under any circumstance. sales of 1102E may have declined, but I'm sure the difference was made up by the marked increase in 1052E sales volume. but then again, what do I know? I'm just a lowly engineer riding the coattails of the marketing department.