Is it worth spending €200 on an Analogue Scope? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 01:00:20 pm
content: I've been looking to get an analogue scope for ages and they never seem to turn up and the prices i see mentioned around here!Local to me theres a 10MHz Scopex 4D for €125 and i've missed a Hameg 203-5 for the same money.Looking further afield i have found a Tek 2225 and Philips 3055 which work out at about 200 delivered each. I'd love the Tek because a) its a Tektronix b) its the same as the scopes we use in college c) dave has the videos on them. The philips is just sexy looking in its late 80's squarenessIts also in the UK instead of the US but spares availability would be worse than the Tek i imagineI have a Rigol so don'tneedan analogue scope but i do want one! Am i looking in the wrong places or are people just getting really really lucky buying 2225's for half the price?Oh and i have tried blagging a scope from college but with no success!

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 01:23:42 pm
content: You should be able to better then that.Just had a quick look and here is a nice 50MHz Philips scope in Durham currently no bids with 23 hours to go or 99 pounds buy now or up to half that if you want to risk it. Postage 20 pounds to the UK.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oscilloscope-PM3215-50MHz-/230703890051?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item35b705fe83I am not sure the type of electronics you do, but the analog scope is just great when you just want to quickly "see" what a circuit is doing. Most of the time, a 50MHz scope would be fine.To grab a bargain on the better Tek scopes, you just have to be patient and keep trying. If you see other people getting a bargain, then you can do it too.It also might be your bidding experience. Are you usually just outbid by a small amount? Sometimes people see a price that looks cheap, so they don't enter the full amount they are prepared to pay. Or you can get a free sniping program like bid-o-matic (http://sourceforge.net/projects/bom/)so you can put your bid in in the last seconds. Don't give the other guy time to increase their bid.Richard.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 01:59:37 pm
content: The problem is that the majority of the sellers doesn't ship to another country.I was searching for six month before I could find a seller that ships to EU.Alexander.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 02:14:57 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on November 24, 2011, 01:59:37 pmYou are right. I did assume that a UK seller who was prepared to sell to Northern Ireland would be prepared to sell to the Republic of Ireland, but perhaps not.I will wait to hear back from Chet.Richard

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 02:27:22 pm
content: I've emailed the seller, i missed that scope on my searches!Unfortunately in postage terms northern Ireland is a world apart from the south.Some people are willing to go to the extra effort but lots aren't

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 02:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: Chet T16 on November 24, 2011, 02:27:22 pmOtherwise do you have friends or relatives in Northern Ireland? You can buy it and use a Northern Ireland postal address.Richard

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 02:43:17 pm
content: I got a reply, they're willing to send it, just waiting for them to give me a price.Some of the US auctions habits postage of up to 400!

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 03:07:27 pm
content: You don't have to tell me about the US shipping prices. I have been quoted $120 to ship a manual to Australia.Richard

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 03:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on November 24, 2011, 01:59:37 pmand if they do, i better buy a high end rigol dso than paying for the shipping cost alone.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2011, 09:58:48 pm
content: Quote from: amspire on November 24, 2011, 03:07:27 pmThat's probably a standard UPS/Fedex quote. UPS and Fedex are quite competitive with the postal service for domestic shipments in the US, but not so much for international destinations. But they will probably have that manual at your front door within three working days or so.International shipping, especially overseas, is expensive for heavy items like scopes if you don't have the Chinese government subsidizing it. A heavy scope can costs hundreds of dollar in shipping. Shipping heavy stuff from the US got a lot more expensive when the USPS discontinued surface mail, and prices have gone up fairly steeply since. No idea about shipping from the UK to Ireland.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 02:01:09 pm
content: Have a look at the ones bellow.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hameg-604-60-MHz-2-Strahl-Oszilloskop-/190604058624?pt=Wissenschaftliche_Ger%C3%A4te&hash=item2c60e32000http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAMEG-ZWEIKANAL-OSZILLOSCOPE-HM-203-6-2x20-Mhz-/330644958533?pt=Wissenschaftliche_Ger%C3%A4te&hash=item4cfbf9ad45

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2011, 08:59:33 pm
content: Despite the seller saying he'd post that philips ebay wouldn't let me bid as I wasn't in the uk grr!On to the next one then!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 12:57:25 am
content: It seems that eBay UK suffers from the delusion that Ireland is a long way away.Or,maybe it is a hangover from the days when the Brits wouldn't accept Irish pounds.(Although you have Euros now!)They even looked askance at Bank of Scotland notes in England!VK6ZGO

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 04:02:30 am
content: Road trip! When working in the bush in the past, I haven't batted an eyelid at the thought of driving five hours just to get a meat pie and an iced coffee.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 06:55:09 am
content: Yes, shipping is the killer, you have to sort by "price + postage" as a first pass.Those that don't auto-quote a shipping cost to your detected region you have to ask, which can be pain.How much generally is postage from England to Ireland for something that heavy?Perhaps go for one of the lesser known brands?I get 52 results for used items over 50 pounds with the keyword oscilloscope from UK based sellers.Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2011, 10:38:29 am
content: DHL express cost (with tracking number) from UK to Hellas for my cro was ~45 $. I could select standard international post with almost half the cost. But... I believe it is better to pay extra shipping cost. The packet was in my possession in 4 days.Alexander.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2011, 05:13:53 pm
content: Got outbid on 2225 a few days ago. I bid in the last few seconds but someone had already put in a higher amount.I decided a 2225 is what i really wanted considering i'll be using them in college and found one with a lower price than the other went for. Higher postage (about 25 more) but its mine and its on the way!

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 09:37:32 pm
content: And its hereGot stung for import vat for 33 euro so it hasn't turned out to be a bargain by any means but it was what i wanted so i'm happy enough

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 10:44:46 pm
content: Good to hear you now have a great scope.Even if the shipping and taxes hurt a bit, the Tek 2225 will be worth it.Richard

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:20:45 pm
content: I really like my 2225. Its FAR quieter than my 2245A. Its should last you many years and may even be repairable by yourself if, God forbid, it should break.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:28:01 pm
content: That was one of my many reasons for wanting one, with so many out there and on here i should be able to get plenty of help both using it and repairing it if needs be.Is there any point trying to source proper tek probes for it? Can't imagine cheapo probes will make that much of a difference on a scope that hasn't been calibrated since 2004! I have the probes from my Rigol for now anyways

author: joedevola
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 11:40:53 pm
content: Hello,I have the 2225 and a Rigol too. Love both. As for probes, plenty of cheap ones on epay that work fine, such as thesehttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-100MHZ-x10-x1-Oscilloscope-clip-probes-Agilent-HP-sco-/170629058920?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item27ba48d168#ht_2065wt_907I found that the 'hook' on the probe ends of the Rigol supplied probes are not that great, they slip off often, so tend to use the cheap replacements in the above link.Cheers,Chris

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2011, 01:18:32 am
content: I have both Tek and Chinese eBay probes and for these scopes I don't notice a difference. Under heavy commercial use, the Tek probes will probably last longer. For a student or hobbyist, save your money.

author: Teknotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 11:48:31 pm
content: I too just scored a 2225 and need to purchase some probes. The original probe model (P6103) is now obsolete. The recommended replacement is the P6109B, however that too is now also obsolete. I spoke to tektronix about a suitable replacement but the technician said unfortunately they no longer make a probe they would recommend to match the scope as the compensation range falls short at 25pf on all their current range of probes.What I am looking for is a replacement probe with the same capacitive compensation range as the original probes (15-35pf). The input capacitance on the scope is 25pf.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2012, 11:57:45 pm
content: I picked up a couple of ebay ones for mine and they're perfect, they calibrated fine on the 2225

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 05:19:59 am
content: There are currently several listings on eBay for P6103, P6103B, P6109 and P6109B. Most of them are missing accessories, be sure to get at least the probe tip, ground lead and retractable hook. Many other discontinued Tek probes will also work fine,here's an exhaustive list(pay attention that the compensation range includes 22pF, bandwidth >= 50 MHz , attenuation = 10X and connector = BNC).Lots of cheap 'commodity' probes, like the no-name 'For HP/Tektronix' or ProbeMaster probes, will also work. Performance should be acceptable for 50 MHz bandwidth, though reliability may be lower.In my experience the tolerances for the compensation range are not particularly tight. I've always taken the compensation range to be a minimum value. I've gotten 12-18 pF probes to compensate reliably to scopes specced as 20 pF.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 05:58:28 am
content: Holy crap. It seems like everyone and their mother owns a 2225 since #196. I'm still working on fabricating a need for 500uV/div resolution.EDIT: I think we can definitively classify the 2225 as an eBay endangered species.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 05:59:55 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on January 10, 2012, 05:58:28 amThe market price for 2225 seems to a lot higher than it used to be before #196.

author: Teknotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 09:32:57 am
content: Thanks for all the info guys.I might try the cheapo probes first and then go for a nicer tek probe later on if one comes up at the right price.Cheers

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 02:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: slateraptor on January 10, 2012, 05:58:28 amYes. Its going to be like 465B's which I still see going for well over $200 on eBay. I have found noise in a circuit several times using the lowest division where I can barely count the peaks to discern the frequency. No way I would be able to get that at 2mv/div.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 02:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on January 10, 2012, 02:41:22 pmWell over $200 for units that fail diagnostics to boot.I've had my eyes on one and did the preliminary desk troubleshooting in the blind to gauge the feasibility of repair; there's a high probability that I've isolated the issue. The unit is being sold out of my home state, so if I acquire the funds before it sells, I'll be making a road trip to inspect the scope and do a bit of haggling.

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 05:06:19 pm
content: Hi Joy,I was talking to you on the phone a couple of times before i got my 2225 from the US, you thought you had a 2225 for me but it turned out to be broken.Numbers with +44 would be northern ireland which in postage terms is uk (i think the same as scottish highlands and the islands) even though i'm physically closer to most of the UK mainland :/

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 06:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: Joy at MCS on January 10, 2012, 04:21:58 pmThat's true, the Tek spare/'refurbished' parts market is much larger. The upside is that Philips used fewer custom parts, so the issue comes up less often. The quality of Tek scopes was also better, but this means they tend to command (much) higher prices.

author: Teknotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 04:22:08 am
content: Quote from: Teknotronix on January 10, 2012, 09:32:57 amEnded up buying some cheap UNI-T UT-P04 100Mhz probes off ebay for $25, free shipping. The next day I found a seller offering the proper Tek P6109B probes in new condition for a great price and bought them also, they are still in transit. For future reference, the UNI-T probes came today and calibrated fine with my Tek 2225.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 04:56:46 am
content: Quote from: Teknotronix on January 13, 2012, 04:22:08 amJesus. It looks like that thing came brand spankin' new right out of the box.

author: Teknotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 05:59:57 am
content: Quote from: slateraptor on January 13, 2012, 04:56:46 amYeah it is in good condition. However the photo improves look of it a little. There is one issue with it where the cal knobs move as you change the Volts/Div knobs, not sure how to fix that until I take the cover off.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 08:23:44 am
content: Quote from: Teknotronix on January 13, 2012, 05:59:57 amBecause cal text in picture is not exactly horizontally or littlebit clockwise I doubt that it is not switched to cal positionHave you really turned these variable/cal knobs fully clockwise to switched position. Normally when you turn these you feel small step in final. When they are not switched position (there is V/div variable setting) they may sometimes littlebit move as you turn big V/div knob. I have seen lot of nearly same type Tektronix (2200 series) and many times seen that some service/user do not know how to assemble this small "cal/variable" knob.Disassembly: remove this small knob. Pull out V/div knob. Just pull out. (careful with this V/div clear plastic dial and never ever use normal ethyl alcohol for cleaning. Only acceptable alcohol is pure IPA if really need other than water) Different models this small knob shaft construction may be different. (depended of construction, only to surface this fiberglass shaft) Also you can turn small shaft and finally turn to locked (cal) position. (sometimes this swith position need some force)Assembly: Push big knob back to its place. It can not go wrong. (I suppose this 2225 have this construction where iis not screw) Follow that dial do not touch front panel surface. (if screw, it need adjust so that dial do not touch front panel.. something like 0.2 - 0.5mm)Then this small knob. Be sure this shaft is really in cal position (swithed to cal). Push it on the shaft and push it fully down. (it hits inside hole to big knob) Then take littlebit back around 0.2 - 0.5mm and tighten screw so that text "cal" is exactly horizontally after you swith it cal position. Now it is free and turning big knob do not move this small knob. (also look that there is no any dirty inside this hole) It is common that some people push this knob too deep before tighten screw(s) and it hit big knob and then just this problem specially if small knob is in variable position (not locked to cal position).

author: Teknotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 11:05:37 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on January 13, 2012, 08:23:44 amYes, the cal knobs are in their indent "snap" position and still move when the volts/div knobs are moved. When I get a chance I will follow your disassembly/assembly instructions to try and remedy the issue. I only just bought this scope and the cal knob issue was known at the time.Thanks for the info!