Step up from starter Logic Analyser - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: chrisabird
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 01:54:43 pm
content: I think I'm out growing my Saleae Logic 8 for working on my 6502 based projects. I would like to be able to probe 16 Address, 8 Data, Clock and Decoding lines at the same time to really see what's going on, doing it in 8 channels blocks really is time consuming. I'd really appreciate some suggestions for next LA devices.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 02:04:17 pm
content: I suggest the Intronix Logicport among USB-based analysers, or trawling eBay for an old HP or similar LA from the 8-bit era (with the usual caveats about reliability, space, noise, heat etc). The Intronix handled my 6809 project quite well. The limited memory depth is a concern, but is at least partially offset by the excellent triggering facilities. Memory depth tends to be more important on serial buses rather than parallel busses anyway.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 02:16:48 pm
content: A real logic analyser is much more useful than the Logicport. I'd look for a Tektronix TLA700 series (TLA715 for example) which can also be controlled from a PC so you have a big screen and a huge amount of triggering possibilities.

author: chrisabird
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 02:50:45 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on June 13, 2016, 02:04:17 pmThe LogicPort seems like an interesting compromise for it's price range. Thanks for the suggestion.Quote from: chrisabird on June 13, 2016, 01:54:43 pmThe TLA700 seems pretty hard to get hold of from a quick scan of eBay (at least in the UK). Are there other makes/models that would be good to look out for as well?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 03:00:43 pm
content: You'd have to get a TLA700 series from the US if you want one quickly. They rarely turn up in Europe.

author: FlyIt!
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 04:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: chrisabird on June 13, 2016, 01:54:43 pmFor my home setup I started with a Logic 8, too. And was very happy with what it did for me. Like you, I eventually desired more channels.And I looked at the Logicport (a friend within driving distance has one). But it felt clunky compared to the Saleae, and the small buffer didn't work well for me. Triggering options were pretty comprehensive, though.So I ended up getting a Logic Pro 16 from Saleae about a year ago, and have had no regrets. Onveryfew occasions do I wish for more than 16 channels, and the faster sampling rate is really nice (compared to the Logic 8, non-Pro version).OTOH...Quote from: nctnico on June 13, 2016, 02:16:48 pmYeah, having used some high-dollar LA's at work, a 'real' one is arguably not a Logicport or Saleae. But I've been quite happy with my choice. Depends entirely on your needs and ongoing use cases/profile. The 'infinite buffer' capability of Saleae is pretty unique, and I find it useful.

author: guido
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 05:32:30 pm
content: You could try to find an Arium ML4100 / Philips PM3632. Acient machines, but able to disassemble 6502. The machines are relatively easy to find. A pod for the 6502 not so. You can convert an 6800 or 6809 pod in to a 6502 pod though. And you need a ROM card inside the LA with decoding ROM. ROM images are available, but you need the ROM card.I have a number of those machines (three, you buy them for the pods), together with a number of pods. Including one 6502 pod.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 11:15:22 pm
content: Quote from: chrisabird on June 13, 2016, 01:54:43 pmPick up a real (but old) HP logic analyzer. This is dirt-cheap and perfect for the kind of technology you are using:http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XHP1660.TRS0&_nkw=HP1660&_sacat=0I have a couple of these that I used for projects 10 years ago. For more advanced projects you could pick up a 16700A series LA, which has deeper memory, exchangeable sampling boards as well as much faster processor. The 16700-series is also remotely controllable via WEB interface over Ethernet.http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=HP16700A&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.XHP+16700A.TRS0&_nkw=HP+16700A&_sacat=0

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2016, 11:19:10 pm
content: When comparing spec by spec the Tektronix TLA700 series is a much better choice. The TLA700 acquisition modules are easy to hack to full speed and memory depth. Secondly when doing selective storage (only store a sample when there is a change) the memory depth isn't cut in half like in the HP logic analysers. The latter is a serious downside of the HP logic analysers because you typically use selective storage when you want as much memory as you can.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2016, 01:12:29 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 13, 2016, 11:19:10 pmThat may be but not many such systems on Ebay. OP uses a Saleae Logic 8 so I assume has limited budget and low-end needs. The old HP 1660 bench top LAs are widely available, are designed for 6502 and similar microprocessor buses and there are tons of probes available on Ebay. I always end up buying HP/Agilent for that reason.

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 14, 2016, 05:09:16 pm
content: Quote from: John_ITIC on June 14, 2016, 01:12:29 amI agree with the HP/Agilent, but I wouldn't go for the old 16xx series. The 1660 only has 4k/8k memory depth and there's no reason to re-live the memory starved TE of that era, especially after using the infinite memory of the Saleae.If budget permits, I would take a look at the later 16720B model with its many modular capture options, which ranges up to 32M/64M memory depth:http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5968-9661E.pdf

author: henno10000
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 04:21:21 am
content: I too am looking at a new LA... Also considering the TLA714/715.nctnico, you commented with 'The TLA700 acquisition modules are easy to hack to full speed and memory depth.' .... I can't find that on the site...can you direct me please ?Thanks

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 09:38:35 am
content: Memory served me well for a change:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tla-hacks-)/msg615388/#msg615388

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 11:16:57 am
content: I've recently used an Open Bench Logic Sniffer to repair an 8-bit ZX Spectrum clone.Worked well in Linux with the OLS Java client and was rather satisfactory for debugging 16 bit of Address + 8 bits of Data and the rest for the control commands.The triggering capabilities were sufficient for my rather basic needs.The only issue I had is that under Windows, it doesn't work so well (the ols was not always recognized or triggered well).However, the cables I've bought (with small tweezer-style test clips) were an exercise in frustration - unclips frequently and some incorrectly assembled/manufactured probes. I've preferred individually-soldered wires.Commercial alternatives just didn't provided enough inputs in this case. And I found the price of the OLS to be very competitive.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 11:48:39 am
content: Yeah. Test clips get loose at a rate which is exponential to the number of clips attached. I always solder thin enamel wires to a board which go to a 2.54mm header which then connects to the logic analyser.