Meet a novel modular electronics system for prototypes and real-life! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 09:45:40 pm
content: Hello everyone!I'm very excited to share with you my experimental project Hexabitz - a novel modular electronics system that works for prototyping and real-life applications. Details are available on Hackaday:https://hackaday.io/project/28419-hexabitz-modular-electronics-for-realFeel free to leave any feedback/comments/questionsWe haven't started shipping hardware yet. Probably will do in Q2 2018. Please like and follow the project on hackaday to follow our updates and be the first to know when we start shipping.Wishing everyone happy holidays!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2017, 09:56:12 pm
content: QuoteThis is interesting

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 04:07:15 pm
content: er, no one is going to use these "in real life" ie in a commercial product are they? For prototyping that product maybe, but for the actual product, er, nope(a custom pcb is much more robust and has a form factor that is optimised for the end application, and these days, a custom pcb is very easy to develop and costs peanuts)

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 04:43:48 pm
content: Quote from: Asaad on December 23, 2017, 09:45:40 pmI'm fairly certain that this claim is false.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:05:50 pm
content: It's not a solution for all applications but there are certainly applications that will benefit from it:All single-qty, one-off projects: making a test platform for your product. Running a research demonstration, etc. You cannot connect Arduinos together and build something small enough and reliable for outside environments etcIf you want flexibility to replace anything in the design. You have a product that sells up to hundreds of units but you want to customize for you customers. Your original design has mini USB and you found down the line you need micro USB? One customer wants to replace BLE with Ethernet? You want to replace one DC relay with higher current one or an AC relay? etc. Accounting for all these variations when you build your own hardware is nearly impossible and will cost you a huge investment in time and money.Maintainability and serviceability: Instead of throwing away the entire product on malfunction, just replace the damaged moduleIf you don't have skills or resources to build your own PCBAsIf you need an ultra fast solution. It takes at least few days to get simple PCBAs from US fabs at very expensive prices. Offshore prototyping takes 2-3 weeks. You can combine Hexabitz modules together in 5 minutes and build a reconfigurable board that is as close as possible to custom made ones in terms of its size, weight and reliability

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:08:06 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on December 24, 2017, 04:43:48 pmI appreciate the feedback but can you point me to what part you have doubt with?

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:13:48 pm
content: I need to clarify that by "real life" I certainly don't refer to commercial mass-produced products. "Real-life" means application outside your lab bench where you are constrained in volume and weight and want to replace a custom PCBAs with something reconfigurable and reusable. It also refers to applications where you need more robustness and rigidity than what you get when stacking shields together with cables and wires running around, e.g. on a drone/robot, road-side equipment, factory floor, etc.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:23:21 pm
content: The linked web site loads so much trash that I gave up waiting for it.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 07:25:46 pm
content: Can you please be more specific? Are you referring to pictures/videos or something else?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:03:33 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on December 24, 2017, 04:43:48 pmHalf and half (I think) I have seen modules for Prototyping but I have not seen anything for real-life applications.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:09:18 pm
content: Quote from: Asaad on December 24, 2017, 07:08:06 pmThe extraordinary claim has been made bold.There have been many other modular electronic systems created before this one, some more useful than others. While yours may be different, it certainly isn't a world-first.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:13:41 pm
content: Oh I understand now. Sorry for the confusion..I was referring to first system "that works for prototyping and real-life applications" because Hexabitz has a rigid formfactor, horizontal integration and low volume/weight compared to many other systems. It's definitely not the first modular system and not the last.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:25:04 pm
content: If you know any systems with comparable design I appreciate pointing me toward them because I always like to refine and improve Hexabitz design. However, I haven't come across anything similar so far, particularly looking for systems without connectors/wires overhead and with full modularity/re-usability factor

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 11:46:32 pm
content: DEC Flip-Chip comes to mind - it was how DEC built systems components up into the early 70s. Each board implemented some logic function and was inserted into a backplane, which was then wire-wrapped on the opposite side for the interconnects. This wasn't just a prototyping exercise - it was how the systems were put together, as sold to customers. I still recall fixing anRLRK-11 disk controller (it was already vintage then in the mid 80s) made entirely of half a cabinet of these. Probes could be attached to board extenders or directly to the back plane...

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:02:27 am
content: What about PLCs?

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 12:04:34 am
content: Really interesting bson! (and love the organic routing lol)Most automation companies (Alan Bradly, Siemens, etc) build their larger PLCs this way. I think they call them DCS (Distributed Control System)One concept I'm trying to challenge in Hexabitz is the idea of a smart motherboard / dump daughterboard (shield, etc)This idea made sense when computing was expensive but not any more. Although now you see it everywhere as a legacy of Arduino design.I believe having a small MCU/logic blob in each module provides immense benefits (flexibility, scalability, modularity, etc) that dwarf its cost/power.The ultimate form of this is actually embedding some logic in the PCB itself and making it intrinsically smart and configurable but I don't have resources to do that lol

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 11:02:23 am
content: My replies should be taken as constructive observations, rather than just criticism!Quote from: Asaadfor demonstration & prototyping of course you can connect arduinos together! (which is why you can buy lots of different "shields" precisely to allow one to stack together different I/O. Sure, can end up with some point to point wiring, but there is nothing in your design that is fundamentally any more robust that an arduino (both are "bare pcbs" with basic components fitted, both are missing the actually things that make electronics "robust" (ie proper connectors,environmental sealing, mechanical support etc etc)Quote from: Asaadwhen you design a product, you often build in options. Because the actual pcb itself is very cheap, you can put on say two usb footprints and DNF the one you don't want. In fact, these days, for low volume products, as the cost is actually the development and not the parts, most people just have a single build spec, and the unneed parts are simple not used, despite being fitted.For volume production, defining, fixing, and validating the specification is the entire process. You be foolish to change something just before production unless you really, really had too, no matter how easy that was to do (just ship it with a different usb lead to fix the "wrong usb socket" issue for example!)Quote from: AsaadFor low volume prototype this is irrelevant, for production, nothing is fixed these days not because it can't be, but simply because the h/w is soo cheap it costs less to just replace it that to spend the time to work out whats wrong and fix it!Quote from: AsaadMost people, if they have the basic skills to do a controls / embbedded project can manage to slot together the basic hardware,either via arduino style shields, or on pin boards etc etcQuote from: AsaadTheses days, a lot of the early dev is done in the virtual environment. Why mess around with h/w at all to get the first spec together? I certainly don't! I'd say products and demo's go:Virtual -> subsystem dev (pin board etc) -> 1st proto (real pcb) -> production

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 11:17:27 am
content: I must have been in the embedded world for too many decades, I simply can't grasp how this system could help me with prototyping (at all!).The project seems nice and polished and such, but to my ignorant eyes it just looks like a "project for the projects sake" (which is also perfectly fine, just don't try and "sell it" as the "cure for all")And, the title ticks my eyes, this is nowhere true!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:00:24 pm
content: Quote from: bson on December 25, 2017, 11:46:32 pmYep, and IBM’s SMS cards that were used in the IBM 1401 for example. These were introduced in the late 1950s.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 02:26:31 pm
content: https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/usa_project_tinkertoy.html

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:41:57 pm
content: Definitely not saying "it's a cure for all".. Where did you see that? I admit the title is catchy but there's nothing in text that says this is the solution for every embedded problemPutting together electronic modules in minutes instead of custom design and manufacturing is called prototyping I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 06:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: max_torque on December 26, 2017, 11:02:23 amI truely welcome your comments but I have to disagree with many of themQuote from: max_torque on December 26, 2017, 11:02:23 am- Solder joints are more robust than wires and connectors- Hexabitz arrays are horizontally integrated by default which matches custom made PCBAs default formfactor- Putting shields and different dev boards together end up with 10x larger size and weight than a custom made PCBA while with this design you might end up with 2x at most.- Most other platform don't scale up (i.e., you can only connect 7 shields or 5 dev boards or whatever the bus/design limitation). Being a mesh network and not bus-based makes Hexabitz scale up easily. (I connected 37 modules easily and the resulting board had relatively small size/footprint)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 07:44:20 pm
content: is driving 5 rgb leds with 5 mcus is your real life reality? please show us something more real rather than something that just capable of charming our girlfriend...Quote from: Asaad on December 23, 2017, 09:45:40 pmi hate to say it and reply in this thread, but we are going to see more and more of this fartbook generation in the future, that probably think life is all that too easy (due to internet bad influence i guess)... i have alot in mind but i believe it will just trigger fire than anything else soothing, so i say best when i say nothing at all. i hope this thread will end soon until we see something more real, i hate wasting my time browsing long list of unread threads of useless topics with nothing but defense mechanism inside...

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 08:19:21 pm
content: I will not respond to your unprofessional comments but for the LED part:- The project page clearly says it's "work in progress"- If you saw the RGB led and didn't see a 600V AC relay that can drive most of your household stuff then you haven't read the page and just skimmed some pictures- Be assured there are at least two dozen modules that are more useful than an RGB LED but I didn't have time to post about all of them. If you cannot extrapolate same concept to other modules/applications then something is wrongNobody forced you to read this useless thread btw..

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 10:58:24 pm
content: Your problem, and the reason it provokes so much negative reaction here, is your, frankly rather overblown, claim:QuoteTwo reasons.Firstly people with longer memorieshaveseen modular electronics systems before so they take objection to "world's first truely modular".Secondly, "electronics" encompasses much more than a bit of messing about with microcontrollers. Any RF modules - no, any analogue modules - no, in fact nothing more than LEDs, power sources, serial lines and relays, not even any general purpose digital input modules or output modules. With the existing modules you've basically got to "we have blinky" or "we have blinky at AC mains voltages" and no further, which is a shame as the basic idea for interconnecting modules has real merit even if it isnotageneralelectronics system solution as you have claimed.If you'd billed it as "A novel modular system for embedded microcontroller prototyping" you'd have been much closer to the mark. Overblown claims that can be seen through immediately tend to make people feel that you're trying to cheat, even if you aren't and are just being bombastic.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2017, 11:19:39 pm
content: Thanks I appreciate the honest feedback..Working with your advice I changed the title and first post.QuoteI didn't say the project is complete. The project page clearly says it's experimental and work-in-progress. I have many more modules to post that cover wider range of applications but explaining the concept is easiest with simple ones.QuoteI was only referring to first in being used for prototypes and in-field environments. It was mentioned in the first post but the title didn't fit.Anyway appreciate your comments above!

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 12:28:20 am
content: Page no longer loads?

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 12:37:34 am
content: Fixed

author: hexreader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:00:03 am
content: Thanks for listening to feedback and acting upon it.Now that the hype is reduced, it actually looks like a fun product.Might buy a selection of boards to try when they are ready.

author: RandallMcRee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:24:26 am
content: Jeez-- cheat? bombastic?He is just naive.

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:44:05 am
content: Interesting idea.I would like to see some finished products assembled out of this stuff. Right now this seems like more of an educational tool rather than a tool for designing finished products. I do low volume production and cannot really imagine this system being useful, but I think the idea is pretty cool!

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 09:59:56 pm
content: Quote from: AsaadThey really aren't!A crimped wire joint is robust, as the crimp cold welds the parent metal of the wire to the terminal (hence old skool wire wrapped pcbs for high reliability applications (Aviation, space, Defence etc) and modern full crimped wiring harness in for example a typical mass produced passenger car) A soldered joint can be affected by a large number of effects, from corrosion to diffusion and of course mechanical strain (solder has a very low creep resistance indeed)Without suitable, validated mechanical support and load sharing, simply soldering together pcbs is a very low reliability solution, which is why you generally don't see it done (often, mechanical fasteners will be used instead, for example the mounting of a ceramic hybrid module to another pcb using spring clips)

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 05:03:18 am
content: https://hackaday.io/project/28419-hexabitz-modular-electronics-for-realgives a 404 not found.Pity, the concept sounds interesting. Want to see it.

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 05:24:21 am
content: Sorry doing some maintenance. Will post back when it's online again

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 05:42:33 am
content: What are your plans to market this?FYI Good job

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:27:26 am
content: No clear plans yet. Basically I just wanted to start by collecting feedback and I got enough feedback already. I have work to do and it's not just technical but finding a compass as well.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 07:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: Asaad on December 24, 2017, 07:13:48 pmThe slightest shock or vibration will rip the pads off the PCB where those modules are joined together. Even faster on the non-orthogonal arrangements.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 07:46:30 pm
content: On modular electronics:anyone knows SEMs (USN)? Or their precedessors (lost the name)? Sigmatronik by BBC?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 10:06:19 pm
content: Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on December 29, 2017, 07:42:03 pmHow about using pins (about 10mm long) made from 12ga pre-tinned wire?

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 11:18:43 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 29, 2017, 10:06:19 pmIf I had to build something like it, I would try to avoid solder on the inter-module connections.I would give the little 'snap balls' from Oxley a try. Or those 'chaotic wire ball' connectors, if you know what I'm referring to.

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2017, 01:57:29 am
content: Quote from: Asaad on December 28, 2017, 05:24:21 amI have to say, this is very annoying. Twice now Ive tried to look at it, and I just get 404s.Surely you can do your maintenance without taking the entire thing down? Or dont announce it until you are happy with the content and wont take it away for days at a time.If youre trying to get people interested in a product, this is not the way to go about it.</rant>

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 11:07:10 pm
content: Hey guys,Finally we're back online! Sorry for the delay. It took MUCH more time and effort than I thought.Previous format was limiting so I made a custom demo website:https://www.hexabitz.com/All technical details are still on our hackaday page:https://hackaday.io/project/76446-hexabitz-modular-electronics-for-realThere're some demo projects there but it still very work-in-progress. We're working our way slowly through new modules and demo projects as time permitsYour feedback is very welcome! Also we're applying for Hackaday 2018 competition. If you find the project interesting, a LIKE is very much appreciated.Cheers and sorry again for taking the site down!A.K.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 07:31:48 am
content: I find the concept very interesting, and the website looks quite good, though a bit too "consumer marketing" to my taste.I can't comment on it's usefullness or feaseability. However, for RF applications there are similar prototyping systems in place, X-microwave comes to mind. I've never used them though since they don't go up high enough in frequency.However, I always have my doubts about modular products and their feasability. Especially outside of one-off productions for custom experiments and industry, I think any modular product has to trade in too much other requirements - size, cost, reliability, flexibility, etc. to be viable.And those where that isn't a problem is where you will probably find FPGAs or industrial PLCs. You really need to look for the differentiator that sets you apart from these systems, and play up on those advantages.Good luck!

author: Asaad
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 02:38:37 am
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on March 16, 2018, 07:31:48 amThanks! That's why I ended up doing two websites. The custom website presents the topic in layman terms for the general public and the hackaday one is full of technical details for us (geeks). If you show the hackaday website to normal people they runaway and feel overwhelmed(the domain name and black background is enough to scare people off!)QuoteOne of my inspirations for this design was actually the phased-array radar antennasQuoteAgree you always have to make trade-offs. But this is a prototyping system at the end, so you're not very constrained in cost, size, etc. This exactly was thesis for this project. Right now, you either need to make a custom board, use a mess of prototyping solutions that are not scalable or go to the very high end to use modular PLCs. I think there should be something in the middle that gives you modularity, better formfactor and still being prototype-ale. The tricks we use with MCUs + DMAs + Serial ports in the mesh architecture are actually meant to emulate FPGAs (albeit at a lower bandwidth) but with a much cheaper off-the shelf solution (the kind that you can put in each board)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 05:17:51 am
content: Marketing. With little fragments. Is so. 2005.(No seriously, it was cute the first time. By the time every ad agency started with "Innovative. Dynamic. Holistic. ." it just got tired and sad.)