Drywall without drilling a Hole? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 02:28:46 pm
content: Hi everyoneHere in my Basement I want, need to construct a Drywall to seperate my Server from the rest of the Room. Thankfully there is a Brick, Concrete wall on the other side so I just need to construct an maybe 2 - 3 Meter long Wall. The Problem is since its the Basement I cant drill any hole into the Base Concrete Block and if I would drill into the Concrete Ceiling my Dad would kill me...and or drive me to the next Underpass where I can spend the rest of my life.Is there some System available in Europe who work with Clamps and is also sound absorbent?Thanks

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 02:55:48 pm
content: forget clamps,use descent construction adhesive to attach your bottom and top plate to the concrete,and make the studs a tight fit to keep the top and bottom plates in place while the glue goes off.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 03:00:22 pm
content: I found something from a German Company:https://www.knauf.de/profi/sortiment/systeme/cubo-raum-in-raum-systeme.htmlHmm can some Glue be removed without any trace?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 04:05:53 pm
content: you can glue a wal together with epoxythe glue is gonna leave a stain and require grinding to get off conrete most likelyotherwise you can get threaded rod (3/4 inch) and spread it between top and bottom

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 04:15:12 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on October 07, 2023, 02:28:46 pmWhy is a separate room necessary for the server? Is it primarily due to the noise from cooling system? Could a proper server rack be a viable alternative solution?

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:01:45 pm
content: QuoteYes and it will be in a Server Rack but that is a bunch of Metal and will not damp any noise. And no Foam will not help. For years a had an noise isolated Pc Case. Did it help? Nope since the GPU Fans Radiated outside who was noisy as hell.So back then I wish there where some Sound Absorber behind the Pc.Now even my back then Silent Mini Pc is loud since I could not chance the Fans because its damn impossible to find compatible anymore....QuoteIts a Wooden Ceiling and Linoleum on the Floor. If there is not something who is design to be removed some day it will not possible to use it.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:16:13 pm
content: Build four walls and a ceiling. Don't attach them to the structure. If possible make the partssmall enough to be removed by the doorways. Doorway will need a sill to keep up the structuralintegrity. More drywall equals less sound.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:32:14 pm
content: Don't use drywall unless you want all the work of jointing/sanding/dust to finish it.The simplest would be to build a free standing room, as others have said. Sheet the walls with 1/4" plywood filling the void between the studs with fiberglass insulation.The insulation will provide a better sound barrier than the drywall. Plus, wood sheeting will be easier to finish, just paint primer and top color coat.As far as the doorway, just leave the bottom 2x4 plate the full length of the wall. It will keep the wall straight at the doorway and a 2" step over a seldom used door is easy to step over.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 05:46:25 pm
content: Sound isolation typically uses two layers of drywall separated by z strips. It works well and what you find in movie theatres. If insulation is used rockwool is much better than fibreglass at attenuation.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 06:08:55 pm
content: Quotenot sure about the op's location,but over here 1/4" ply is over double the price for an 8 x 4 sheet compared to12mm plasterboard1/2" drywallQuoteUnless your after a dog rough job your still going to need to fill the joins between the ply sheets and give the whole thing a sand before slapping the paint on

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 06:32:58 pm
content: Kerdi is for showers, it is light foam and does not provide structural integrity. It is supposed to be placed on walls or studs and covered with ceramic tile.

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2023, 11:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on October 07, 2023, 05:01:45 pmHow much power does the server dissipate? If the power is high, how do you plan to keep the proposed insulated server room cool? Are you installing A/C, or will you rely on forced ventilation? If the power consumption is low, could you simply rebuild the server making it quieter?

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 03:49:06 am
content: Sound damping and isolation is a complex job as you have discovered from your prior experiments. Doing it well requires both barriers and energy damping materials. It is directly analogous to making electronic filters where the energy damping is performed by resistors.Best damping materials vary with frequency, but tend to have either particles that rub together when moved acoustically (sand for example) or viscous gel type materials. Lead wool used to be a standard option, but obviously isn't a good answer today.Amateurs can have difficulty getting access to materials. One of the best ways to get them that I know of is from the shops that do high power audio installations in cars.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 04:13:33 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on October 07, 2023, 05:16:13 pmBest sound isolation is a solid box within a solid box with as little coupling between the two as possible.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 06:22:10 am
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on October 07, 2023, 02:28:46 pmWhat exactly would be the problem with a few drill holes for wall plugs (anchors)? It's not like you need to drill all the way through the wall or ceiling... You will not weaken the structure to any significant extent, and won't cause water to leak through the walls either.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 08:54:01 am
content: Do you have any home improvement stores or hardware stores there? Go look for rigid foam insulation. Comes in sheets like plywood but cheaper and much lighter. Very easy to cut with a utility knife and you can use duct tape or just about any adhesive with it.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 05:51:28 pm
content: Instead of making a wall to create a separate room, make a cupboard/box for the rack instead.Although server rack hardware noise profile tends to be dominated by high-frequency noise, start by eliminating low-frequency conducted noise.You do this using something that builders call a floating slab: a thick layer of rockwool or similar insulating wool on top of the base concrete, with a reinforced slab of concrete on top of that. The only contact between the concrete slab and the concrete foundation is the insulating wool. Minimum thicknesses depend on the area, but knowledgeable building engineers can give you exact figures. Your box then builds on top of that floating slab.(It is how in e.g. apartment buildings you can completely stop conducted noise through floors. With a correctly done floating slab, you can walk with wood clogs, and the downstair neighbour will hear absolutely nothing. It does add weight and cost, as typical floor slabs are at least 4" thick, also reducing room height by about 10".)High-frequency noise can be absorbed by normal acoustic panels. Air cooling intake and exhaust are your next focus –– unless you build a rack out of a fridgerator with sufficient continuous cooling capability for your rack hardware, say used restaurant cooling cabinets or similar. Soft foam baffles and dust covers, and as large fan diameters as you can fit, can help a lot.I've built silent PC enclosures (but latest one almost a decade ago now). The tricks there are similar: you use an outer box as the shell (this corresponds to your existing basement space), then an insulated inner heavy box for the actual hardware. You carefully design the airflow so that it has enough turbulence to ensure all surfaces and components are kept cool, and also to hinder sound propagation. Using convection (hot air rising upwards) can help, but can also create laminar flows with "backwater pools" outside the flow where the air does not mix and just heats up. Foam baffles work well, as they also absorb higher frequencies. Cheap soft closed- and open-cell foams work well, and you can use gasket silicone (non-acid curing; preferably platinum-curing ones, like you'd use with electronics) with such foams to "glue" e.g. case fans, stopping all conducted noise. Personally, I'm still looking for cheap very low durometer (i.e. soft, spongy) silicones a 'hobbyist' can use; the ones I have easy access to here are automotive (gasket silicones) or household (but these often have antifungals and tend to be acid-curing) silicones, with hobby shop casting and makeup/effect silicones either too expensive or sold in too large buckets.That said, my own limit for furniture-hidden "silent" PC enclosures is around 100-200 watts of heat produced, and for anything substantially more, I'd actually go for compressor cooling –– the fridge approach. Running that does cost relatively more, depending on the hardware of course, and you need to use e.g. desiccants (larger silica packets you can dry out in an oven, for example) to keep the air inside dry and not condensing to the surfaces and ruining your electronics.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2023, 06:33:26 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 08, 2023, 05:51:28 pmHah, that put's me in mind of the very noisy comms and server rack (kindly provided by the US IT department), that we had when we were setting up our UK office. For the first few weeks we were crammed into a single room in a serviced office complex. The shielding proved very effective in noise reduction, but was prone to a certain amount of unauthorised tampering.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2023, 02:44:21 am
content: If I wanted to build walls like you describe, I would get some adjustable support poles similar to these:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08C55QZPTI would put high density foam on the outside of the header and footer to take up any irregularities; something like Armaflex which may be cheaper to buy as pipe insulation tubing.https://www.amazon.com/Armaflex-APT03434-Pipe-Insulation-Lineal/dp/B00FY4WSOIAfter getting the header and footer located, individual studs can be cut to fit. Depending on the installation, I might leave some posts inside the walls with removable access panels to tighten them if needed. I’d put everything together with screws, not nails. The drywall doesn’t need to have the screws mudded over, but should be taped at the seams; just use a thin coat of mud and if it needs to be leveled off, use a damp sponge and wide straight mud spatula to scrape off the high spots, no sanding needed.There are some types of hot glue that claim to be removable; try in an area that won’t be noticed first.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2023, 04:37:08 pm
content: Thanks for replay all. Well the "project" is month behind my own deathline and I am pissed that my Dad still refuse to run some Electric Power Cable from the UPS to the Server rack.Hopefully this weekend I can relocate the Huawei Server into the Rack and prepare everthing to move the NAS to. UPS, Router, Switch* are currently still in the small Network Rack.* Mabye I will move then later to depend on the noisefloor.Currently I search for all the thinks I bought over the last years for the Server Relocation. Hopefully I find all stuff.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 10:00:46 pm
content: If you have a 3D printer, putting cables thought the dry wall without an RJ45 termination can be done using these. Then terminate at the cable end after the cable is pulled through the dry wall. Not recommended for mains cower cables of course.https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3921134

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2023, 10:21:02 am
content: I don't know about Austria, but in most areas of the US there are building codes. And it can be illegal to construct things like walls unless they are constructed in conformity to the code and with a building permit. And inspectors will come out and inspect the construction to approve or disapprove it. The owner of the building would be responsible for such things. And could be responsible for any fines that are assessed. Some building inspection departments here can even make the owner tear out any construction that is not up to code.A separate room in a room sounds like the best bet. But then there is electric installation: power outlets and lights and switches. This is not just for legal purposes, but also for safety.If I were you I would do some more checking with your dad and/or the building's owner. And find out if the city or other government entity is involved.