WHY, just why... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 05:37:42 pm
content: do they use hard to distinguish colors on the probes? Isnt life hard enough in electronics?Have not seen real colors on those really. We are not living in the middle Ages anymore, where color pigments were expensive!

author: Andy Watson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 05:42:31 pm
content: So that they match the insipid colours used on the rest of the instrument

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 05:48:03 pm
content: But they miserably failed. See channel 4! It was a kind of green. And the backlight of channel 1 is orange! Its a bloody mess!

author: axantas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:01:16 pm
content: They failed 100% regarding the color choice. I am constantly mistaking that creen with gryanMaybe they were googling "Chlorophyll" instead of "Green" during the coloring process...Chlorophyll is expensive...

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:13:49 pm
content: With soooo many options for customization, even some scopes running android, I can't understand why they can't let you choose the channel colors.You can give a channel a name, but not change its color. I guess they have never reard about 'color blindness'

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:17:58 pm
content: Good luck finding an associated plastic ring for the probe regarding your chosen colour... But indeed the designers should level up.

author: empeka
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:19:44 pm
content: Can't help with channel colors on screen, but to make probes more distinguishable I've replaced rings with thesehttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/32920850408.htmlQuote from: RAPo on March 15, 2024, 06:17:58 pm3d printing

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on March 15, 2024, 06:13:49 pmSome R&S scopes, like the MXO4, lets you choose each channel color and it can be any custom color (i.e., not from a fixed menu with a handful of choices). It not only changes the trace color, but also the LED backlight color of the vertical buttons and knobs for the channel that is selected.But there's a minor downside: The probes *do* have a color ring, and unless you remember, or physically mark the channel colors, you can't plug the probes into the right channel when the scope is off.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 06:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 05:37:42 pmIs this about having limited color vision? Which probe colors become a problem with color blindness? It's actually hard to know without experiencing it.

author: axantas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:06:11 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 15, 2024, 06:40:43 pmIt is about the fact, that one should be GREEN and one CYAN and they are both kind of "light dark blue" and "light light blue".As for the color rings - we all might have a lot of spare ones, but it reamains a failure of Rigol.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:09:56 pm
content: I used to roll my eyes at Rigol's choice of "light blue" and "dark blue" as two of the channel colours (plus yellow and magenta). But with my new Siglent scope, I find that my slight colour-blindness makes the distinction between yellow and green non-obvious for me. Maybe Rigol were actually considering that and omitted green for a reason?I wish I could adjust the colours on the SDS800X HD (as, I believe, it is possible on the higher-end Siglent models). I would only want to tweak them a bit -- making the yellow a bit more orange for example. Hence, no need for custom color rings on the physical probes or for RGB LEDs on the scope buttons which adjust to the custom colour. A software change would be enough to make me happy.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:12:24 pm
content: DHO924SI don't use the rings because the color is there next to the BNC.Also, the channel selection buttons are also colored, and in my case they are very different, I couldn't even confuse them.Colors can be distinguished quite well on the screen.What's more annoying for me is that if "color grade" is turned on, everything is blue...I don't understand why it wasn't possible to use the channels' own color... Compared to Micsig's color grade, this is a joke anyway.Also, why not green instead of light blue. This was a very poor decision from Rigol...

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:18:14 pm
content: Quote from: axantas on March 15, 2024, 07:06:11 pmIts not just rigol! Many, if not all. It is kinda nice to change the color of the channels, but you cant really do this to the outside of the sockets (at least without letting it look ugly)!Why are these idiots choosing "light blue" and "light blue with a tint of green"? There are bloody colors called BLUE and GREEN, that are easy to distinguish!I cant help myself but think there is a agenda behind this. Maybe no manufacturer wants to do good stuff, to not let the others lose too much, so everyone can generate enough revenue? Its the same with the software, that could be easily made better. At least on the rigol side...

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on March 15, 2024, 07:12:24 pmShow me one oscilloscope from the other manufacturers, that has a green color on a channel!

author: guenthert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:22:42 pm
content: Ah, c'mon. Nothing like ol' Commodore choosing light blue text on dark blue ground. That can only be beaten by the flag of East Frisia.Seriously though. About 10% of males are "colour blind". That however is usually just "colour weak", i.e. there are three fully functioning kinds of receptors, just their peak sensitivity is closer, i.e. their ability to discriminate colours is diminished, e.g. unable to distinguish pink from white in low light conditions. Really strong contrast help and for the oscilloscope's probes only four colours are needed.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: axantas on March 15, 2024, 07:06:11 pmBut why is it a fact that one should be green and one cyan? That seems to me more like an opinion.Also, the screen is not shown in the picture, so I cannot judge the appearance of the traces. Furthermore the traces are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, so you are not relying solely on the colors.As for the probes, one is light blue, while another is dark blue with a white contrasting pattern. If you were seeing them in black and white, they would be highly contrasting due to the pattern.Overall, I do not find any difficulty seeing the difference in the four colors, which is why I am asking.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:23:39 pm
content: I use the rings to keep track of the probes after they are matched (compensated) for each channel. I don't normally leave things setup.For keeping track of them on the DUT, I only ever have four, so no big deal.My active probes have an LED that emits the color that matches with the channel they are connected to.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pmSiglent, pretty much all of them. Also see my post above; it's not without downsides (for some of us).

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pmMicsig, siglent, hantek....after a quick search, I couldn't find anyone other than Rigol who doesn't use green, for scopes with more than 2 channels.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 15, 2024, 07:25:02 pmYou are right! I had a quick peek on a picture of the sds814, but that light green looked light a light blue on the first glance!

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:43:14 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on March 15, 2024, 07:26:19 pmWere there any ones with some vibrant colors on the scope?

author: axantas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 07:43:28 pm
content: They used the new color palette from Hermès - that's whyBleu FridaBleu FranceRose MexicoLimoncelloThey perfectly fit, wearing them together.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:02:35 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:43:14 pmI don't know what you mean, but I look at the picture from any scope, and I can distinguish the channels quite vividly with almost all of them.However, these two "Bleu Frida, Bleu France" can be very confusing.I can tell them apart, but they don't stand out as much as blue and green.With the oscilloscope I found on the Internet, for example, red, blue, green, yellow were very clearly visible and distinguishable.But my Micsig also has this, only not red but purple?You can ramble on about this topic for a long time, but it's not worth it.It's a factRigol chose the wrong color, and I think it's not possible to change because the channel's input and buttons are color-coded.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:09:53 pm
content: Quote from: csuhi17 on March 15, 2024, 08:02:35 pmYes you can! And so can i, but you know, i am german, and i want to recognize the right probe/color in less than 100ms, and also in not so perfect light conditions.I hate it when people sell lame things, and also when people buy those lame things, and love having those lame things!

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:15:51 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 08:09:53 pmIt helps us feel superior, when we can readily use those lame things without discomfort.The same kind of superiority of owning a car with manual transmission, when so many unfortunate people can only drive automatics

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 15, 2024, 08:15:51 pmThere are different dimensions of "lame", I guess.I will happily use an old CRT scope without any bells and whistles, and eyeball voltages and times on the printed grid. On the other hand, it got really annoyed that Rigol's on-screen axis labels are such a mess. (Mixing different units on the same axis, and making it really hard to set round values for the labels.)"Careless and thoughtless" is the flavor of lame that annoys me most...

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:30:26 pm
content: I paint the color bands on my probes so I don't need to deal with the little plastic rings. I can pick any colors I want. The paint goes in the little slot where the ring would have gone and has so far not worn off after many years, but if it did I would just touch it backup. I've never needed to change a probe's paint color, but if I did I could just paint over it.I bet nail polish would work pretty well here too.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 15, 2024, 08:23:32 pmIf you talk about poor product design, then I am with you every time. Having a bad user interface on a product would upset me too.

author: csuhi17
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 08:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 08:09:53 pmFortunately, the color intensity can be adjusted for many scopes.You can't just change its color.I just noticed that I set it to 100% for Rigol, but 50% was enough for Micsig.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 09:30:38 pm
content: The screen printing on the DHO800 is off compared to the DHO1000:But yes, selectable trace color would be the best.

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 10:24:33 pm
content: Always wondered why the scope guys neverthought of using the resistance colour codes.Maybe 2=red and 3=orange is difficult to discern.For two channels there used to be a sort of standard:L (1) = yellow and R (2) = red.However, today many manufacturers have decided against this "standard".Just look at your headphone, speaker outputs etc.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 10:37:20 pm
content: Quote from: Messtechniker on March 15, 2024, 10:24:33 pmBrown, red and orange is a cruel joke for people with some variant of color blindness. A friend of mine who can distinguish neither green nor red once had to wire up a UTP cable, and to her the brown, red, orange and green wires all looked like shades of brown.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 10:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 15, 2024, 09:30:38 pmI wonder why they printed the first 2 Channels with black font, and the others with white font.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2024, 11:03:58 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 10:52:30 pmI think it's to match the color coding on the probes? In one case you have a dark pattern and in the other case you have a light pattern as a visual identifier in addition to the color.

author: slugrustle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 01:43:07 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pmPicoscope!

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 02:11:18 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pmThat's green all right:Does this count as an oscilloscope?

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 05:28:18 am
content: Quote from: IanB on March 15, 2024, 11:03:58 pmDark pattern? What dark pattern?Quote from: slugrustle on March 16, 2024, 01:43:07 amOH MY GOD! LOOK AT THOSE COLORS! I think for some people those 4 colors just look like black...Quote from: shapirus on March 16, 2024, 02:11:18 amYes, and its funny how they also choosed the grid to be some color closer to green...

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 10:04:01 am
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 16, 2024, 05:28:18 amNah I think it's gray or something. Either way it's very usable. The UI on this scope is actually quite good.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 10:40:14 am
content: R&S is yellow, green, orange, blue on my RTB2004. You can apply effects (e.g. to show up infrequent events) on a channel but can't change the base colour.Zero issues for me, but I have good colour vision. Configurable channel colours (given they're using RGB LEDs as channel indicators, it should be easy-ish) was a feature request from some on this forum but unlike others it didn't make it into new firmware AFAIK.

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 11:30:37 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on March 16, 2024, 10:40:14 amThat sounds like the same issue with rigol. The hardware was designed good, but those that designed the UI for it were not so much motivated...

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 02:16:12 pm
content: They should sell it as an option. I think many of us will happily spend $15. Easy earned money for the manufacturers.Quote from: eTobey on March 16, 2024, 11:30:37 am

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 02:18:08 pm
content: The Hameg HMO series has a green colour on channel 4.Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pm

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 04:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: MarkL on March 15, 2024, 06:29:35 pmThe MXO5 adds RGB LEDs right next to the BNC jacks so that they actually match, too.What’s a bit annoying on the MXO4 (which they could easily fix in software) is that the colors of the RGB LEDs aren’t calibrated to match the display.Edit: in fact, this even visible on their own photos of the MXO5. Look at channels 7 and 8: plainly different on-screen, nearly identical on the LEDs. And channel 3 is deep orange-red on-screen, and basically peach colored on the LEDs.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 04:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: eTobey on March 15, 2024, 07:20:29 pmALL of the top manufacturers do: Keysight, LeCroy, Tektronix, Rohde & Schwarz. They all use yellow for Ch1, and then pink/red, light blue, and green for the remaining channels, in varying order. So do most of the low-cost ones. Rigol is fairly unique innotusing green.On 8-channel scopes, it’s common to have two different shades of green, one slightly yellowish and one slightly bluish.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 04:41:56 pm
content: Why not white traces?___________________

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 05:00:33 pm
content: Yes, I'm ready for it, I have already the white plastic rings ;-)Quote from: xrunner on March 16, 2024, 04:41:56 pm