im about to cry please help - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 12:57:13 pm
content: so i start working with cadsoft eagle pcb design software and im kind of made my circuit until i checked for errors and noticed that a lot of connections isnt connected. i tryed messing with grid size and so on nothing helped its now seems tricky to do it and i have made short video how buggy and out of place it looksi seen many people using this software with out any problems and it looks straight forward but for me it feels cursedplease watch italso search is messed up toowhen i search for tda it doesnt find anything witch is seen in the video. when i have downloaded a library it only came up with search term tda2003 and as i later figured out there is an other one witch only could be found with tda2003v term

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 01:03:52 pm
content: try diptrace it's free for hobby use 300 pins limit - you can ask for a 500 pins it's free too but have to ask for itdiptrace has IMHO a far better user interface than eagle is more easy to learn.you also have DEX Autotrax recently came, but there are still some issues with the software but the original author wants to correct them.

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 01:08:50 pm
content: thanks and btw if i saw schematic in data sheet witch has tag test circuit is it on that i use it for day to day application or do i need to add more parts to make input cleaner and so on?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 01:21:20 pm
content: Never change grid in schematic editors!Use Alternative grid (by holding alt) to move texts off main grid. But never change main grid.To get stuff back on main grid, hold ctrl while using the move tool to grab the component.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 03:14:45 pm
content: Before you get in too deep, switch to Diptrace.I tried Eagle when I first started and found its user interface to be very difficult to use. Diptrace is very straight forward and generally follows the familiar Windows ways of doing things. Eagle apparently, was designed by aliens from another planet.I do agree with starting your own library. In Diptrace creating a new part is trivial. The editor is not much more complex than Windows Paint. Spending a lot of time to find a part in the libraries is not good. Then most of the time you find that the part has problems like hole size is off, or doesn't snap to grid right, or whatever, and you have to fix it. I actually removed most of the default libraries, since I don't have much time for that.So whatever you do, at least download Diptrace and give it a try.

author: Relaxed
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 03:21:20 pm
content: You need to use wildcards like * if you are searching for parts of a component name. For example "TDA*" and you will find every component starting with "TDA".

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 03:30:36 pm
content: Stop screwing with your schematic grid. Leave it on 0.1".There is a manual and I highly suggest reading it. You really can't just dive in to a tool like this and expect to get places quickly.

author: kurt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 03:54:38 pm
content: Some years ago when I was lokking for a schematic capture and PCB package, I fond that there was 2 main kandidates for free. Eagle and DipTrace. I wanted to give them both a fair chance so I finished one project in Eagle first and then tried DipTrace. I never looked back at Eagle. In my opinion it have one of the most horrible user interface I have ever seen in any software. I'm sure they have both evolved since then, but I have stuck with DipTrace.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 04:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: kurt on February 28, 2015, 03:54:38 pmyep - no they did not evolve the user interface ...

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 05:09:50 pm
content: Patience. Whenyou connect your netlines in the schematic window you have to make sure your green netlines meet up right at the tip of the pins in the components. It takes a little practice but you will get it. to insure its connected use the info button and click on the pin to see if it is connected to the right net. There are many youtube videos that will walk you through it. Once you get the hang of it and have your go to parts in your library Eagle is actually one of the faster ones to use. Its not as slick, but once you think in its method, it is really not bad.

author: MoighonFweeman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 05:12:31 pm
content: If your circuits use common components, you can use Fritzing as a circuit editor. You simply cannot compare Eagle and Fritzing: Eagle is so much more powerful. However, the interface of Fritzing is pretty intuitive, so it's good for drawing out a simple circuit.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 06:11:32 pm
content: I actually am not an Eagle user. Tried it but didn't like it. But I also suggest patience. NONE of the CAD programs are easy. There is a fairly steep learning curve for all of them. Once you make it up the curve it becomes natural. I would think twice before you throw away your current investment in learning Eagle. It is a very usable program, liked by many.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 10:45:42 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 28, 2015, 06:11:32 pmBecause of that, plenty of parts are available on the internet. Farnell even supplies scripts (to add a part to a lib) for some parts.Eagle uses the same interface from the early days. I'm sure that was just as any other program with the tools on the left, and the menu/options at the top. Much like CorelDraw for example.Only the latest version changed all the icons. Fortunately they've added a option to use the old icons.Once you've done a few boards in eagle, collected/created some .lbr's (see sparkfun, dangerousprototypes or microbuilder), some .ulp's and made a .scr with your settings. Then you'll see that eagle is a useful tool.I'm sure that there are plenty of other tools around. From unaffordable to open source. From total garbage to overpowered.Eagle does it's job. When you know how to use it.I remember using eagle for the first time after using only Altium designer. Eagle looked like a horrible piece of antiques. But the job got done.Then had to use Multisim and Ultiboard for a while. Lets just say that Eagle is faster to use and more reliable.I have no experience with diptrace. It looks like a viable alternative to eagle. It's in the same price range.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 03:35:53 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on February 28, 2015, 10:45:42 pmIt's earlier than that - Eagle was originally a DOS-based graphical program, and has largely stuck to the 'choose action -> select object to apply it to' (aka 'verb-noun') paradigm of many pre-Windows programs. Windows (eventually) settled on the other way around; 'select object -> choose action to apply to it' (aka 'noun-verb').If you keep that basic difference in mind then Eagle makes a lot more sense. Interestingly, the verb-noun paradigm stuck around longer in CAD & drawing software than anywhere else.(Those who remember Windows 1 & 2 will remember that things weren't nearly as settled, and both paradigms were used by both programs & the Windows shell itself. It wasn't until Windows 3, or maybe Win/286 & Win/386, that Windows settled on it's current way.)

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 06:44:38 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 28, 2015, 03:30:36 pmit doesnt apply to eagle because than i cant even touch wire to a component especially IC

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 06:53:10 am
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on March 01, 2015, 04:33:52 ami will use kicad because diptrace is so bizarre i did proper circuit and did auto routing and that fucking diptrace routed some caps + to ground point and i figured that out after drilling 100 holes eching it tin'ing copper with solider because i didnt had liquid tin and also putting all components in when i powered it one trace burnt. what a fuck man?im so dissapointed

author: kjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 07:06:21 am
content: I am using Eagle since the DOS days and once you are familiar with it it is very easy to use. It's major strength is the scripting and user language part. Most of what I do is now handled by ULP's like automatic panel creation, tape-out and document generation. Something I never got working right in other programs. KiCAD looks like it is going slowly in the right direction but why change.The schematic editor only connects if the pin is on the grid. Another thing is that if you insert a part from the paste buffer it will NOT connect. That's a bit strange but if you know it you won't do it.The suggestion made here several times to leave the grid as it is (100mil or 0.1") is the best one. Do the same when you generate new devices in a library.Another thing (for me) is to never use the pre-made libraries because the majority of them are pretty crude and not practical for production. One example is the stencil (or cream) which is always all the way to the corners of the pad and you just reduce it with the scaling. This isn't the way many SMD parts want it in production. I only work from my own libraries which evolved over the years.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 07:23:00 am
content: Eagle is old, archaic, out-dated, and difficult to use. The only reason it ever gained any following is because at one time, many years ago, it was pretty much the only free option. That is no longer the case. Life is too short to waste time with software that fights you every step of the way and makes you want to bang your head on the desk more than anything else.On the other hand, the problems you've described using Diptrace makes me think the real issue is not the software.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:16:11 am
content: Quote from: justin66 on March 03, 2015, 06:44:38 amYes, it does apply, and yes, you can connect a net to a component pin on the schematic at the default 0.1" grid. It's about the easiest thing to do.There is nothing wrong with the tool. Please slow down, stop richocheting from tool to tool like a runaway flubber (.. do people even know what that is these days?), and put some effort into learning. If you ask questions, there are many here, myself included, who will be happy to answer and help you.Quote from: rdl on March 03, 2015, 07:23:00 amEagle does not fight you, you fight Eagle because you have preconceptions about how it should work.It's not perfect butit works.

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:39:23 am
content: Quote from: kjs on March 03, 2015, 07:06:21 ami was using eagle at first too but i got too frusturated when i wasnt abble to connect dam traces to an ic look at this

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:41:05 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 03, 2015, 07:23:00 amtake a look at my other post lolhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/am-i-stupid-or-diptrace-is-completely-bullshit-crap/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:41:26 am
content: Quote from: justin66 on March 03, 2015, 08:39:23 amThis is 100% user error. You are throwing things around and changing settings without understanding what you're doing.Slow down, maybe read the manual, ask some questions.. anddo not change grid on the schematic.

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:47:15 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 03, 2015, 08:16:11 amcompared to diptrace eagle is crap in my opinion. traces happily connect to components in diptrace when eagle doesnt want me to connect them serriously i was wanting to to thiswhen i was using eagle. tutorials didnt help eather. diptrace was like blessed rescue for me i did everything pretty straigt forward and i didnt ran into any problems except autorouter fucked up my circuit and now i don know if my tda1554q's are blown or not because . look at thishttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/am-i-stupid-or-diptrace-is-completely-bullshit-crap/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:49:35 am
content: Quote from: justin66 on March 03, 2015, 08:47:15 amEagle works fine. It is absolutely trivial to connect a net to two pins if you don't muck with settings.Please calm down, slow down, and examine what you are doing, no matter the tool you choose to use. And do not judge a complex piece of software based on ten minutes of blindly clicking.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 08:52:47 am
content: easy, use diptrace then.I never had trouble with eagle but maybe i'm lucky or too methodical.

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 11:05:47 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 03, 2015, 08:49:35 amwhat am i doing wrong i dont get it btw i mesed with it whole evening and does eagle autorouting is any better than diptrace's?

author: justin66
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 11:06:29 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on March 03, 2015, 08:52:47 amhow did you learned with it?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 03:23:37 pm
content: Using the tutorial built in, the one in adafruit and the one in sparkfun.The sparkfun ones are pretty good to get started:https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-eagle-schematichttps://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/using-eagle-board-layout

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 07:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: justin66 on March 03, 2015, 11:05:47 amYou changed your schematic grid. Don't do that. Place two parts, click the net tool, and click at the end of the pin. That's all there is to it.Forget about autorouting.

author: kjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 07:47:01 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 03, 2015, 08:49:35 amI agree and never had any issues except for the adding of parts from the paste buffer. You can always check whether a part is connected by moving the part itself. If the wire follows its connected.I made and had made 100's of PCB's in Eagle over the past 25+ years (most for commercial use) and errors were "user mistakes" in 99.9% of the cases I had a problem. I only know of one case were Eagle had a bug (was fixed within 3 days, there service was perfect). KiCAD looks like it might be on the right path and I would really like to get an open source alternative. I will continue to try it until it is what I need and then switch (that's what I say since years).What others stated here before and that's valid for all the programs I tried: trash the libraries and use them as a starting point at best.

author: atferrari
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2015, 11:38:55 pm
content: Instead of crying, I suggest to use frequently ERC and DRC and learn to interpretate what they tell to you.Run the whole GND trace first (which should be a continuous one throughout the whole PCB, then power and finally signals. The idea behind this is to discipline yourself what in the end means less time wasted hesitating on what is next.I refrain myself ranting about my bad tools. I know I am going nowhere with that. I am still the same idiot in spite of all my blah blah blah.Buena suerte. That is, good luck.

author: Hideki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 01:15:04 am
content: I must repeat what has been said before: Forget about autorouting. No, really, don't use it! (in any program)It is of course harmless to try it and see what it does, but if you actually use the resulting layout, it is guaranteed that you will get hurt. Then you get to write angry and/or frustrated posts complaining about how crap the software is and how insane it is that you have to do the layout manually. It is 2015 after all. Surely computers are able to do it for you? No... they are most definitely not. You will have to wait until someone develops real artificial intelligence (that could take a while).If you really want to use autorouting anyway, wait until you have some YEARS of experience with laying out PCBs without it.The Eagle trouble happened because you didn't know a vital piece of information - that the line you draw needs to end up EXACTLY on top of the pin. It will snap to the grid, but it will NOT snap to the components.Another less vital piece of information is that what they call Wire is not what you want to use to connect two components. Use Net instead, which will automatically place junctions so you can avoid doing that manually.