burning satilites making magnetic shunt? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2024, 11:02:46 pm
content: https://www.yahoo.com/news/paper-claims-dying-spacex-satellites-192557146.htmlSo if I understand it correctly the magnetic dust from the sats is making some kind of magnetic shunt for the planet.I think thats interesting. Or maybe its more of a shorted turn? I think the idea is that it makes a conductive plasma ring

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 12:18:51 am
content: This is nonsense.A layer of magnetic material thick enough to shunt the earths magnetic field would also be thick enough that we would not need one.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 12:49:40 am
content: I think its more like a shorted turn on a transformer (of conductive plasma filaments)I believe its translucentish if I understand it correctly.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 06:06:58 am
content: Have you noticed the article doesn't say or prove anything? All there is "potential", even the PhD is not a PhD, but a "candidate" to Phd. That article is propaganda.Spacex satellites has to do with Elon Musk. Elon Musk upset the establishment, therefore he must be associated with negative outcomes in everything he does. The message is 'Elon bad'. Starlink is really bad for the establishment, because Elon refused to censorship his satellites. People were able to stay in touch with the world when the establishment wanted them muted. Elon disobeyed, and now the masters are displeased. Bad Elon! Bad!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 06:43:42 am
content: Yeah that may sound like nonsense, that being said, I don't like much the idea of polluting the space around Earth with all this waste that we'll never be able to get rid of. (Or doing so would probably make sending satellites completely uneconomical.) And I personally don't care about who does it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 07:07:49 am
content: Its a idea involving physics we don't need a discussion about politics and complaining about PR or Anti-PRI did read something about rarefied plasma forming in the upper atmosphere in quite large sections, miles across. I imagine this theory suggests that this plasma formation could increase.I am not sure if they are thinking about Sprites.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper-atmospheric_lightningWhat would a shorted turn of plasma around the entire earth do exactly anyway?I am still not clear if they mean shorted turn (project westford type deal) or just a magnetic particle shunt that disrupts the field lines.Maybe they can launch a rocket in a orbit that will not last long filled with lots of pure iron dust and see what it does...the referenced article analysis mentions conductivity, and electric charge conductivity. but that makes me think of a conductor. but they also talk about magnetic shielding, which makes me think of like a powder inductorhttps://www.livescience.com/space/space-exploration/controversial-paper-claims-satellite-megaconstellations-like-spacexs-could-weaken-earths-magnetic-field-and-cause-atmospheric-stripping-should-we-be-worried

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 06:24:14 pm
content: Hypothetically, a magnetic shell around the earth would actually increase the strength of the magnetic field, inside the shell.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 06:30:39 pm
content: QuoteAt 1.2K temperature

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 06:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on March 17, 2024, 06:24:14 pmI think its a question of cycloton motion. Not sure how the analysis works out with different size shells

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 07:32:39 pm
content: This is junk.The billions of micrometeorites the Earth has captured for over millions of years?Most metals sent to the sky aren't magnetic mainly due the high weight of the steel (Aluminium, magnesium, titanium, copper...),and will react extremely fast with the heat and the high ozone levels of the upper atmosphere during the reeentry.Aluminum will convert so fast to aluminium oxide (Alumina), a great isolator!And it reflects light so well that it might help with the greenhouse effect (In fact it's been already mentionedhere.Even 10K starlink satellites won't make much effect over huge 160.000 Km² outer earth surface.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 08:49:25 pm
content: not sure how well alumina is made in a vacuum or low partial pressure. aluminum oxidizes pretty darn slow. not much O2 there either.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 09:00:36 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on March 17, 2024, 08:49:25 pmyes, I'm wondering how you oxidize metals up there as well.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 09:02:48 pm
content: I don't think so when hitting the atmosphere at 17000mph, melting and coming apart at several thousands of degrees, plus ozone is an extremely potent oxidant (Supposing it reaches that atmosphere layer).From this article:https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2313374120?_ga=2.213978450.492158759.1697570369-891100340.1697570369QuoteAnd:https://aerospace.org/article/satellite-reentry-manipulating-plungeQuote

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2024, 09:11:10 pm
content: it says they cover 400-50 miles above surface. that only takes care of a thin slice. 350 - 35 = 315 miles left

author: twospoons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2024, 09:00:20 pm
content: Just for fun, lets put some numbers on it.Orbital altitude for Starlink is 550km, and the radius of earth is about 6300km. If the satellites were turned into a monatomic vapor shell 1m thick, the volume of that 1m thick shell would be 6x1014m3The satellites weigh 260kg, and there are about 5500 of them for a total mass of 1430000kgIf we make the stupid assumption that the whole mass is aluminium, then apply the ideal gas law, assuming a temperature of 273K (it varies from -65C to 125C in LEO) the pressure of that mass monatomic vapor of aluminium spread into that huge volume is just 3x10-19Pa.For comparison, the gas pressure in low earth orbit is already 1.3x10-5Pa. That's 14 orders of magnitude higher than our vaporized satellites.Which really means that even if we vaporized every satellite and bit of space junk currently in orbit, and stuffed it all into the same orbital space it would make fuck all difference to the gas pressure already present.You could, however, turn the starlink satellites into a loop of wire at 550km altitude, and there are enough of them to make a wire just shy of 4mm thick that would go right around the planet.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2024, 10:03:54 pm
content: I am not sure how much gas pressure relates to magnetic conductivity or whatever they are talking about exactly.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2024, 10:14:35 pm
content: Has anyone bothered to look at the actual paper (linked in the article which the OP refers to)?The paper does discuss its assumptions, and one of them is that many (!) additional satellite networks beyond StarLink become active in the future, namely 100 of them. It also assumes somewhat heavier satellites, and that their whole mass is turned into microparticles in the magnetosphere upon re-entry. How realisitic all these assumptions are is up for debate, but they are all spelled out there -- in contrast to the various more or less sensationalist secondary articles which people seem to restrict themselves to.There is no mention of superconductivity at all, by the way.