Lube DMM Selector Switch? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 12:58:50 am
content: My old Micronta 22-167 failed to read ohms due to dirty selector switch. I opened it up and cleaned with rubbing alcohol (IPA) and now wonder if I should apply some lube to reduce wear? WD-40?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 01:42:37 am
content: Wd40 is not a lubricant. Additionally don't use petroleum based products around plastics if you expect any form of longevity.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 01:57:18 am
content: WD40, means Water Displacement formula #40. It was a chemical soup dreamed up to remove water from surfaces. It is not a lubricant and should NOT be sold as such, but money speaks. Do not use it on anything you care about. It is slightly corrosive and attracts dirt and dust like crazy. It has very little lubricating properties.Use WD40 for displacing water, freeing up siezed bolts nuts, or other fitted parts, then clean them and apply a proper oil, grease or other lubricant.There are dielectric greases that are used for switches and such but I do not have experience in sourcing them.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:48:46 am
content: Lightly apply WD40 with a cotton budif that's all you have till you get something appropriateOtherwise you'll have bigger problems due to friction and wear as the IPA has washed the lube away

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:46:59 am
content: Regardless of what Electro Detective says do not use WD40 in a multimeter especially. It is not a dielectric lubricant, will attract contaminants and can cause the safety rating and accuracy of your meter to go down. It is one of the worst things to put inside your DMM. It is also flammable. Do I need to say more?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 05:52:32 am
content: https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-22058-Dielectric-Tune-Up-Grease/dp/B000AL8VD2Use it sparingly

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:02:14 am
content: I have been using PAO synthetic oil on switch contacts for many years with good results.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:41:29 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 02, 2017, 03:46:59 amMore anti-WD40ism(())If OP applies it with a cotton bud, it's only the LIGHT lubricant that will remain, to ensure minimal selector track friction,and adequate contact till OP can source an appropriate lube.LIGHT lubricant means it won't attract any more contaminants than any other lubricant would,and nothing is going to catch fire unless your suburb gets napalmed by a nest of mutant fireflies,or the multimeter gets tossed on the BBQ along with the usual cadavers during an after work beer binge session.Try it for yourself on any similar material/s and plastics before taking the plunge,it smells like petrol yes, but that soon goes away.Do a metal to metal resistance contact measurement as well, and see what happens.There is way too much WD40 paranoia, it's not an aggressive product as some others,and common sense dictates if you've got nothing else to bail you out,it's better than nothing

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 08:13:08 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 02, 2017, 01:57:18 amPeople seem to enjoy repeating this like sheep, especially on car related forums where it apparently isn't a penetrating oil (it is), it has no lubricating properties (it does) and is generally evil (it isn't).I would be the first to state that it's not really the correct stuff to lubricate switches. However it's basically a light oil in a solvent, the same as most other penetrating oils, so has very similar properties, i.e. fine for very light duty lubrication, freeing of rusty/stuck parts and it's excellent at removing heavy oil and grease.I'd go for a proper switch cleaner/lubricant such as Servisol "Super 10", and use it sparingly.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 09:29:54 am
content: ExactlyI have Servisol, WD40 and just about every other tinned formula required for electronics, automobile, garden tools...and anything else where friction may need sortingI have used WD40 in OP's application to lube rotary selector tracks on a meter when I didn't have another option, with long term SUCCESS,otherwise I would not be recommending it as a short term fix.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:01:02 am
content: Personally, I really wouldn't contaminate things with a short term fix, followed by the necessary clean up!Order the correct product and be patient for a few days.P.S. The best contact cleaner/libricant I've found is Electrolube EML (in fact Electrolube have a whole range of contact lubricants, many of them for very specific automotive applications (at manufacture). EML doesn't have all the Audiophool hype of Deoxit but is just as good - Don't get me wrong, Deoxit is an effective product but seriously, just compare the product datasheets!Electrolube SPG is a really effective lubricant for plastic parts, detents etc. It's worth having some of that around too.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:30:37 am
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 02, 2017, 08:13:08 amThe problem is that the solvent removes any existing lubricant, and the light oil will evaporate soon. Leaving an unlubricated (is that a word?) joint. So the correct statement is that it does not lubricate for long.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 01:28:46 pm
content: I tend to use Shell Cassida, as it is sold as safe to use on nylon, plus it is white, food safe and I use it a lot at work as a general purpose grease. Being safe on nylon parts makes it a good lube on switches, as they tend to use nylon or bakelite parts as insulators or spacers, though the cheaper ones use ABS plastic, which is very brittle with time and stress with any lubricant.http://www.gannonoils.co.uk/images/stories/shell-cassida-grease-eps.pdf

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:27:53 pm
content: So its one person's word and experience against another.... I say there is a problem and others say there isn't. I have experience that makes me say what I say and the others have experience to say otherwise. AMP Connectors did a study on the effects of WD40 on their connectors in the 1990s. The conclusion was that WD40 was corrosive in the long run, attracted contamination, and was recommending that all of their customers not use WD40 for lubrication nor for protection.People can believe what they want, but usually where there is smoke there is fire.metrologist:Do you what you think is best for you but please follow up with some more research of your own and ignore me and the others. I don't think you will find a consensus here.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:38:19 pm
content: o.k. get ready for a flame-fest or tears.i am a repair engineer working on pcb's upto 40years old.i have seen WD40's work up close enough times.IT IS A PCB DESTROYER!!NEVER put it on a pcb or spray it into chipsockets - specially into chipsockets.it's a penetrating oil - and it does.it slowly gets under the tracks and eventually lifts them off the fiberglass matting.any pcb that has been contaminated with WD40 must be washed with a de-greasing agent as soon as possible.i'll just add that i dont give a shit if you dont believe me, it's your pcb's and if they ever end up on my desk they will probably be turned away.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:39:41 pm
content: btw, the correct thing to use on sliding contacts is contact lubricating grease - any good supplier should list it.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:59:29 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 02, 2017, 01:28:46 pmFWIW, Electrolube SPG (Special Plastics compatible Grease) is an ABS compatible lubricant. They also produce SPGA, specifically for for ABS and polycarbonate which is more adhesive to the surfaces (but that one only appears to be available in 200l tubs!)http://www.electrolube.com/search.html?sitesearch=spgElectrolube stuff also seems easier to source in the UK - RS, Farnell etc.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 04:07:54 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 02, 2017, 02:27:53 pmOne thing I think we agree on is that there should be lubricationI had a distant memory of seeing permatex silicone based dielectric grease so went rummaging around my shop and found the tube. I applied a light coating to the tracks with a toothpick.The meter was failing to read resistance and jiggling the selector made the reading jump from Mohm to kohm on a short. Now it is working well. Thanks all.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 05:05:12 pm
content: Please do not use WD-40 on electronic devices that you value. I too have used the stuff for decades as well - and it is very useful *in applications that it's suited for!* Sensitive electronic devices are not one of these. For mechanical movements that aren't too finely constructed or for cleaning gunk from same - it works great. Ignore Electro-Detective, he has been outed as an instigative troll even by Dave.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 06:00:50 pm
content: while we are on the subject of lubes.does anybody know what the fine mint-green stuff is that used to be used in vcr's on the plastic gears and sliders??i wouldnt mind a pack of that.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:03:55 pm
content: I always suspected that it was something that exuded from the kids when they were toddlers! They used to post all sorts of stuff into ours.P.S. I remember the grease was black in early Ferguson top loaders, presumably something Moly based. I guess you can work out from the above posts what I would recommend as an alternative.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 08:07:39 pm
content: Quote from: stj on July 02, 2017, 06:00:50 pmProbably available from Matsushita as a service part, or from Sony as well. Slide lubricant, probably a molybdenum sulphide based additive with a non tacky base lubricant and metal soap thickener.The black one is similar, just a molybdenum disulphide based additive ( black) in a similar base. a good substitute is to go get a tube of Molyslip oil additive, though I will warn you it is hard to get out of your fingers afterwards and it permanently stains clothes.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 09:02:49 pm
content: not from SONY, those assholes used regular "golden" grease that hardened over time and jammed everything up!!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:04:37 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on July 02, 2017, 05:05:12 pmMore baiting?I never recommended OP to use it on 'sensitive electronic devices' which implies spraying it on, which is a no no.If eKrutz READ the comments above in sequence rather than engage in continued butthurt underhanded troll calling (from ONE post Dave outed me from) I stated apply 'with a cotton bud', which means only the light lubricant remaining will be applied, and none of the carrier solvent.I have used WD40 (and all the rest of the magic sprays and greases) wisely for decades too btwThe original post again:Quote from: metrologist on July 02, 2017, 12:58:50 amA"dirty selector switch"requiring a temporary lube is not 'sensitive electronic devices' and if OP only had WD40 on hand, it would have done the job till sourcing something suitable suggested by members aboveIf OP metrologist thinks I'm pulling his leg and wishing harm to his meter or 'instigating' anything, I will remove all my comments immediately

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:34:28 am
content: .Quoting Youtube posterAllAmericanFiveRadio"PANASONIC model RF-800 1964 This was the first time I used WD-40 for this purpose.I'm being conservative with the years it's much closer to fifteen years ago.I had tried many tuner cleaner products, and some worked for awhile, some did nothing and others made it worse. I have had zero problems.I do not spray the WD-40, I use an eye dropper, or a small screw driver to apply just a few drops where I want them."Many more Youtube replies have similar positive experiences at youtube.com/watch?v=lyjUDh7Djpo

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 03:43:28 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/question-dmm-grease/http://www.machinedesign.com/archive/lubricating-electrical-switches

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 04:27:29 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 02, 2017, 11:04:37 pmYou are a dangerous and harmful troll. Your "advice" is potential harmful to equipment and possibly dangerous. Stop polluting with BS and personal attacks.OP, do what you wish but be aware that people with experience are recommending against WD40 for your use. Use it at your own risk.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:15:15 am
content: Premium lube isKrytox GPL series oil or greasewhich is very expensive and basically liquid teflon in a non-petroleum, non-silicone base. Used in aerospace. Best stuff I've used, it does not evaporate or attack plastics, semiconductors etc. But the price ouch.MG Chemicals Nu-Trol control cleaneris electronic grade mineral oil and non-aggressive solvent. For switches, potentiometers etc.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 06:00:34 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 03, 2017, 04:27:29 amHello?! Who is attacking who here? What advice is'potential harmful to equipment and possibly dangerous'? a simple temporary lube of a dry selector switch when nothing else is available ?Have you read any of the comments above that supports my 'experienced' advice ?Here is another supportive link:Fluke 80 Series 111 Service Information, please note the product suggestion and usage in the first two sentencesThe same information can be found in all three Fluke 87-1, 87-111, and 87V user manuals,that's 25 years worth of WD40 recommendation and Fluke have not changed it. I'll trust their 'experience' too, thank youThanks to member'sotos'for the linkwww.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/question-dmm-grease/?action=dlattach;attach=29668It's the OPs call anyway, as stated earlier, if OP is not comfortable with my 'experienced advice' and or comments, or suspects alleged trollage here, I will delete them immediately.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 06:42:09 am
content: Please can we stop this! Everyone is entitled to have their say and some have had it more times than necessary!

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 08:36:25 am
content: Again, WD-40 is fine WHERE IT'S SUITABLE. I use it as well. No one here is "anti-WD-40" or attacking you in any fashion, that is just more trolling type behavior that Dave warned you about in the other thread. In response to your Fluke manual comment: the Fluke manuals recommend using WD-40 where? Applied sparingly to the METAL input jacks. Nowhere else. For the rotary switch they spec Nye gel lube - which is almost certainly silicone grease as recommended by Lightages.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 09:01:48 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on July 03, 2017, 08:36:25 amSo what are dirty or dry selector switch contacts in a multimeter made of? METAL, plastic or glued on hardened compressed conductive bagel dough ?your quote "WD-40 is fine WHERE IT'S SUITABLE" > exactly my pointGlobal Moderator Simon has asked cordially to knock it off, and that's good enough for meWage earning WD40 representatives and their CEO are welcome to join EEVblog and defend the 'multi' uses of their product in electronics.I've done more than enough for free already, and scored a negative vibe as my reward

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:21:10 am
content: The traces are made of metal, sure. They're also attached with what amounts to glue to fiberglass circuit boards (which can soak up oil like a sponge when they're older). Using WD-40 on a circuit board is akin to spraying one with mineral oil... would you do that? I wouldn't. If you would like to chance harming your gear go ahead and use it in your sensitive electronic gear. I'll continue to use products that are suited for what I want them to do and what they are used on.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:34:55 am
content: yes thank you I think we all know now that WD40 might not be ideal, any alternatives ? I think the WD40 recommendation is simply historic as in back in the 40's where "electronics" were not much different from house wiring.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:05:17 pm
content: I am no expert esp when it comes to plastics, but I would tend to try using a small amount of a 'switch cleaner/ lube' e.g. Deoxit - I would test on the plastic in an out of site/non critical area first. Shariar used it to clean a resistor standard's switch with good results. I have had similar results with the switches in old scopes and an old thermal RF power meter.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:59:42 pm
content: just use a safe grease - i would avoid one with graphite or teflon in it.i think lithium based grease is plastics-safe.cheap too.https://www.rapidonline.com/sealey-scs106-ep2-lithium-complex-grease-cartridge-400g-84-2124

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 03:45:41 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/multimeter-or-oscilloscope-hv-safe-lubricants/msg914477/#msg914477

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on July 03, 2017, 11:34:55 amThe correct lubricants have already been mentioned and people keep recommending those that aren't. What else can we do?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:59:34 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 03, 2017, 06:00:34 amThe use of WD40 in that document is referring to the test lead jacks, NOT the switch!You have just proven the point that WD40 is NOT to be used on the rotary switch as they specifically recommend another lubricant for the switch, NOT WD40.The correct lubricants have been already pointed out, and also in the document provided by Fluke that you have referenced. There is no reason to use something that is not recommended except for the end user being too cheap, lazy, or can't wait the few days to obtain the correct lubricant. Using WD40 can actually lower the safety of the meter by contamination and degradation of the parts it is in contact with. This is not a simple matter of opinion but a matter of damage to equipment and a matter of changing the safety of equipment.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 06:41:37 pm
content: DeOxit is mostlyPetroleum Napthaor lighter fuel.WD40 is halfKerosene, AKA jet fuel andvery hard on some plastics.You'd have to know the PCB laminate epoxy and DMM case plastic to really know.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:46:28 pm
content: Thanks Joe, but that's not the amount one would put to revitalize dry switch track/s in a pinchi.e. that 'drop' is way too much and will cause issues.One pass with a moist cotton bud, and a second pass with a dry bud dabbed on to pick up any excess and mop up any surrounding areas and gaps is the way to do it. Good luck with the'before and after'arcing biz from track to track thenAfter the kero odour disappears, you're good to go, and it won't attract any more dust than exotic grease or the mud products that petrify over time.One last time...if you had a badly performing meter with dry switch contacts,with NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE but saliva, water or WD40 to apply lightly and carefully on to the metal contacts,and needed the meter functioning ASAP, what would you do?Well, I've applied it SPARINGLY many times and have not seen any plastics degrade nor CB or switch tracks lose their 'adhesive-ness' or peel off like sunburn on any boards.The stuff comes off with IPA or non-residue switch cleaner anyway, so no drama.Millions would agree with me, millions won't,and the rest may be doing it WRONG,or have the correct lubricant available so they don't have to go there.Guys, OP asked if WD40 would be ok, I assumed that's all he had on hand and needed the meter working asap,so I honestly commented YES you canI didn't say to spray the stuff on like Deoxit, Servisol, Glen20, and take his chancesPlease Consider

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:29:55 pm
content: Took a bit to flush it out of there.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:30:32 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 03, 2017, 11:29:55 pmWell, there was enough on there to lube a small garden clipperor perhaps a seized Micronta or Harbor Fr!ght selector switch, whilst out in the desert tracing a stranded vehicle crusty wiring problemThanks for the video/s btw

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:44:30 am
content: If you have watched some of my videos were I pull the meters apart, some like the Fluke 107, have their switches saturated in grease. I doubt they do this without having a good reason and I doubt it is poor quality control from the Fluke. Like the article I linked, the grease has more than one job to do.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:28:49 am
content: For some historical reference of what Tektronix recommended in their 475 CRO service manual ( and probably all others manuals of this vintage that had mechanical swithes), see photos below of pages 4-1 and 4-2 of the manual.Maybe not so clear is where they suggest the use of WD-40 is acceptable, but most likely it refers to the cam parts of the rotary switches and not the actual contacts.FYI

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:34:52 am
content: Guess that was written before they found out that it is impossible to put silicone grease on the switches without it migrating to the contacts. That stuff migrates everywhere. Bonus points if any of the contacts are prone to arcing.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:55:33 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 03, 2017, 03:43:28 amHonest, I did search, but ran out of oomph. Deja Vu.Some folks would apply a few second spray of WD40 so enough got under the PCB to make it to the contacts, then work it around a bit, then give it a rinsing spritz. The good old days...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:03:35 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on July 04, 2017, 02:55:33 amNo problem. I've never been impressed with this site's search engine. Hopefully you found something useful.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:09:13 am
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on July 04, 2017, 02:28:49 amThat document is 44 years old. I think we have learned a bit about material science and chemistry since then. WD40 is also 64 years old.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:20:48 am
content: Do we know if there have been any changes to the formulation of WD-40 since then?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:38:53 am
content: Quote from: alm on July 04, 2017, 03:20:48 amGood question. The one thing we know for sure is that it contains flammable liquids, as per the MSD sheets. I am sure that putting flammable liquids inside a CAT rated multimeter is not conducive to safety.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 04:13:36 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 04, 2017, 03:09:13 amOnly provided for historical value, make of it what you like.Perhaps its these types of documented uses that over time may have shaped peoples opinions/attitude to using what is a very familiar brand product ......whether that has been for the correct purpose is the real question.And just so you know I would not use it either in my electronics and with so many more suitable and 'improved' modern products why would you.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: alm on July 02, 2017, 11:30:37 amTake a sheet of glass > clean it with IPA > place a small dot of WD40 > place in a box / "dust free" storage > wait > examine the results.IIRC some of the metrology grade stuff Dave have reviewed did suggest to use WD40 on the rotary switches. This doesn't of course mean it is suitable for general use in every such device.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:31:21 pm
content: You can reverse-engineer WD-40 from theWD-40 MSDS datasheet.It's basically kerosene and napthalene for solvent, and transformer/mineral oils for lube. I only use the stuff on my car for rusted bolts and find the lubricant evaporates in days and not long lasting.Someone mentioned silicone grease (dielectric) is not good.Has anyone tried it?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 09:03:29 pm
content: Both that GE high voltage grease and MSD grease are silicone. Yes, I have used it on the multi-meter rotary switches. I use that GE stuff for a lot of high voltage applications. I'm sure there is much better stuff out there.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 01:31:25 am
content: The Nye gel lube that Fluke specs for the rotary switch is a silicone grease carrier with some fluorocarbon solids added from what I can gather by reading the MSDS. Silicone grease is fine for low voltage or non-arcing applications in my experience.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 02:41:46 am
content: Looked like it was obsolete. I spent a little time looking at what they offer now. I wonder if anyone knows what Fluke is now using.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:14:56 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on July 05, 2017, 01:31:25 amAs long as there are no contacts that might arc anywhere close either. I believe in the case of the telephone exchanges the grease was also not applied to the relay contacts, but to some other part and migrated to the contacts. Due to the property of migrating everywhere and being very hard to remove (not soluble in common solvents), it was banned in some labs for fear of contamination.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 03:41:05 am
content: From the late '90's Fluke 87 service manual, in ourrehash of this thread..."Rotary SwitchTo clean the rotary switch potentiometer, do the following:1. Remove the circuit board assembly as described earlier under “Removing and Reinserting the Circuit Board Assembly”.2. From the back of the circuit board assembly, push the switch shaft in, and remove the polymer thick film (ptf) contact assembly.3. Clean the ptf contact assembly and the potentiometer on the circuit assembly with alcohol. Blow these parts dry with clean, dry air.4. Using a Q-tip, apply a thin film of W. F. Nye Gel Lubricant, #813S (Fluke PN 926084), to the entire surface of the ptf pattern and the hole in the center of the pattern. It is important that the grease be applied in a film of consistent thickness such that grease does not accumulate on the ptf wiper contacts. Remove excess grease with a dry Q-tip. No portion of the ptf pattern should be left unlubricated.5..."NYE Part number seems beFLUOROCARBON GEL 813S-1 MSDS"A very soft, PTFE thickened, medium viscosity chlorophenyl silicone grease for potentiometers, electrical contacts and precision instruments exposed to extreme temperatures. Benefits include excellent thermooxidative stability, unusually low volatility."

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 03:16:16 am
content: Forgot to mention earlier that if WD40 isn't anyone's cup of tea as a desperate measure,KFC finger juice applied sparingly can get the job done too in a pinchunless the Colonel has changed the formula in the last few years

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 05:54:04 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 06, 2017, 03:16:16 amThey have KFC in Australia, how about that.Colonel Sander's deep-fryer used corn oil, but now it is soy/canola blend. Yes changed in the last few yearsDid you know PDMS,dimethylpolysiloxanea silicone-based synthetic polymer is added to deep-fryer oil as an anti-foaming additive.Possibly better for your multimeter than WD-40 with its nasty plastic eating solvent.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 12:25:55 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2017, 03:03:35 amI usually go to an internet search engine and type "<search term> site:eevblog.com " without the quotes. It works really well for me.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 03:55:14 pm
content: I tried that again today and got better results... Most topics I read previously introduced lubrication as an ancillary topic and it was taking a while. Now that I have better terms I found Rob Renz's replies and links amongst others. Now I will panic over using a silicone based grease.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 11:23:56 pm
content: The NYE lube recommended for the rotary switch by Fluke IS a silicone based grease:QuoteI would refrain from using silicone based grease in an application that even has any arcing components NEARBY the application site, but personally I will still use it anywhere that has a continuous contact or on very low voltage/current switches that are very unlikely to experience any arcing. I've followed the same guidelines for nearly a couple decades now with no issues. The appropriate Caig/DeOxit products work well for the others.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 02:10:29 am
content: Has anyone tried applying Windex very sparingly in a desperate'need the meter working NOW'dry selector track scenario yet?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 02:57:11 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 07, 2017, 02:10:29 amWindex contains Ammonia. Ammonia and copper don't play well together.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 03:01:32 am
content: would it give the copper tarnish a good scrub ?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 03:41:43 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 07, 2017, 03:01:32 amSo you don't wanna be seen as a troll, but keeping polluting the thread with nonsense.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 05:04:27 am
content: I think theanti-silicone lube postis copy pasta ofElectrolube's marketing sheet.They don't mention what alternative is used in their products.I call bull on it ashigh-voltage switchgearmanufacturers are using silicone grease. And we aren't arcing and making silicon-carbide here in our DMM's.And (old) Fluke advises NYE silicone-lube (with teflon). So I'm in the pro-silicone camp.I think the chemical compatibility is important- with copper, gold, plastic, rubber, phenolic and FR-4 pcb etc. inb DMM's.Silicones are quite inert, so I think they are a good choice.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 08:00:15 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 07, 2017, 03:41:43 amThat's your say so, and not my problem if discussion re easily available and cheap generic cleaning and lube chemicals don't interest youQuote from: floobydust on July 07, 2017, 05:04:27 amHV switchgear lubricants is a hard one, especially inside a sealed unit exposed to high and low temperatures, and the time factor.I've seen the insides of failed switches where the lube had turned to hard green slime, sometimes making contact only on hot days.Silicones are ok if they don't slime about into places they shouldn't, or get chunky and cause issues

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 09:31:32 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 07, 2017, 08:00:15 amThe problem is you keep posting ill considered opinions with no consideration towards material compatibility. I originally had you pegged as a troll, but now I'm pretty convinced you just don't know any better.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 09:52:05 am
content: you need to make sure the chemicals dont effect plastics or rubber - it's not just the dielectric property's

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 11:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: stj on July 07, 2017, 09:52:05 amAgreedI test chemicals on landfill bound unserviceable electronics and boards first, before applying or spraying into a working device,and give lubed traces a good zap with 50v to 1000v insulation tester/Megohm meter (been doing that before there was an 'internet') to see how well or how bad a product performs, and repetitive mechanical/friction testsI don't just buy into any hyped product, or a handful of user recommendations(who may be silently sponsored)For example, take De0xit, there are other MUCH CHEAPER products that do the same job if not betterI bought and tried ALL the magic sprays and greases years ago, and ran them to see what worked, and what didn't work as wellThe exercise and initial cash outlay saves money and service grief in the long term,NO COMEBACKS,and you eventually use up the stuff anyway where it suits, so no money wastedPlease wait a minute for the 'troll' call on this comment too

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 03:52:21 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 07, 2017, 11:39:44 pmOK, so who are you accusing of being a lying company shill?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 09:48:29 am
content: what's it worth to you?

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 03:18:32 pm
content: LOL, troll calling others troll... too funny. Someone should really send Dave a link so he can warn this guy again. Nice try with the baiting BTW...more trollish behavior.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 03:40:59 pm
content: I am watching the topic and will review it later, I'm currently out trying to raise money for charity.Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

author: jordanp123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 03:50:29 pm
content: In a nutshell, when cleaning the Wiper PCB tracks should a lubricant be applied afterwords or not ?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 04:10:37 pm
content: yes - unless you want to wear the gold/carbon plating off.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 06:24:58 pm
content: The type of lubricant & the lubricant base are like debating religious values. 100's of different formulas.stj, I looked intolithium greaseand it was the usual mess of opinions:"...lithium is an alkali metal and it conducts electricity""...lithium chloride is a solid, it does not contain free moving ions to conduct electricity. It only conducts when it is in the molten or aqueous state"I find companies selling it for use in switches and HV switchgear etc.Lubriplate lithium greaseI have no idea if leakage current is a problem with metal-salt lubes like lithium and molybdenum.You spend $500 on a DMM and probably want to use the right stuff.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 10:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on July 08, 2017, 03:18:32 pmWarn me for what Kretzi ?injecting a bit of humor here and there, the 87V Affair, suggesting alternative 'working' methods to get stuff done...?Lighten up mate

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 02:40:07 am
content: You got kicked OUT of the 87V thread by Dave, if you keep it up you'll probably be kicked out of this one as well.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 03:18:06 am
content: Quote from: jordanp123 on July 08, 2017, 03:50:29 pmBasically it's best to use the same stuff that was there before the cleaning,if it's not in a service manual what to use, email the company's support and find outIf the original stuff was attracting dust or became hardened sticky sludge in a short time, get a better product recommended for wiper pcb tracks.i.e. don't leave it clean and bare if there was lube there to begin with, otherwise it's metal to metal friction you don't need = $$$

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 04:01:51 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on July 09, 2017, 03:18:06 amThat is the best thing you have said so far. I agree.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 04:31:57 am
content: For sliding contacts like the ones in a DMM switch, consider using polyphenylether based lubricant. It stays wet but doesn't attract much dust, and forms a very thin layer that won't raise the contact resistance. MG Chemicals and Techspray make them.Obviously this is not suitable for any surface that experiences mechanical loading, like the spring and ball bearing in the switch assembly. The proper lubricant for those is silicone grease.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 04:37:57 am
content: I recently got some lubriplate for my antenna tuner and I got it in 3 small (1/4 fl oz) tubes sold as genie screw drive garage door lubricant. Its enough to last me a very long time. I forget what it cost but it was only a few dollars. It seems to help, I'm still learning how it works, how much to use, and need to do some more experimenting with it. Would be happy to test it in any way you can come up with. Very sparing application seems to be best.Quote from: floobydust onTodayat 12:24:58lithium greaseand it was the usual mess of opinions:"...lithium is an alkali metal and it conducts electricity""...lithium chloride is a solid, it does not contain free moving ions to conduct electricity. It only conducts when it is in the molten or aqueous state"I find companies selling it for use in switches and HV switchgear etc.Lubriplate lithium greaseI have no idea if leakage current is a problem with metal-salt lubes like lithium and molybdenum.You spend $500 on a DMM and probably want to use the right stuff.