Altium European Pricing - Violation of Internal Market? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: FivePoint0
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2014, 10:11:38 pm
content: In Europe we have the "internal market". Yes? I'm in the UK.That should mean if I want to buy a product from Germany, I can, yes? Not with Altium it seems.I got a quote from Premier EDA, an Altium reseller in the UK. It seemed expensive. I found that Altium could be bought in Germany (it might have been somewhere else) for £1,000 less. I asked for a formal quote from the cheaper supplier (Altium direct I think).I then got a rather irate email from Premier EDA solutions, who stated that they offer only a "value added solution" or some other cr@p. I asked for several more quotes across Europe, strangely no offices responded, or if they did they told me to contact my local reseller, i.e. Premier EDA solutions.Does this stink. It sure as hell does.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 01:57:13 am
content: All things being equal then the Pound should be at the same exchange ratio as the Euro, but it's not.So I can see why they feel strongly about it.I don't know the details but can someone explain what the UK doesn't have for not being participants of the Euro Zone? I know at one time they where (not adopting the coin but accepting the Euro and fixing the exchange rate) but later on they split and became independent from the Euro Zone or however it's called.Surely that will bring some limitations to trades in comparison to members that are both Euro adopters. Otherwise I just have to wait until the exchange is favorable and purchase goods from the Euro Zone for maximum profit and with the same protections as the rest of the Euro Zone. Doesn't sound like fair play to me, so some limitations must be at play somehow.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 08:14:14 am
content: The exchange rate between the Pound and the Euro was never fixed, and Euros aren't accepted as cash here. It's a foreign currency just like any other to us.

author: CrashO
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 09:22:07 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on December 16, 2014, 01:57:13 amUK is not in the euro-zone, but they are in The European Economic Area (EEA). Meaning any EEA member can "shop" in any of the other countries without importing hassles. For a company it means they can purchase goods in any of the countries and pay taxes (VAT) in their own country as if they would have bought it there. For private orders they pay the taxes on it in the country of purchase.So other then the EURO-GBP currency conversion, there should be no added costs or reason for the price difference.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 09:53:44 am
content: Ask them to quote in Euro instead??? Idunno.Tim

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 04:21:39 pm
content: It is nothing to do with exchange rates. The UK has an Altium distributor (with I presume exclusive distribution rights). They have been Altium distributors since 1994 and are a historical anomaly. I don't think Altium have any other 3rd party distributors and in this age of the internet would probably rather not have the UK one.They do offer added value, but, you have to pay for it with marked up prices regardless of you actually getting any.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 04:27:55 pm
content: Why do you want to buy from a distributor ? Simply buy from Altium directly.Altium has plenty of VAR's : value added resellers. these companies typically provide additional services such as DFM , autorouting through Spectra, Solidworks integration and quick-fab mechanical. if you don't need that : buy from altium. done.unfortunately for the UK , altium doesn't have an office there. the germany office services UKALTIUM SALES OFFICESALTIUM EUROPE GMBHPhone: +49 721 8244 300 Address: Philipp-Reis-Str. 3, 76137, Karlsruhe, Germany Fax: +49 721 8244 320 Working hours: 8:00 - 18:00 Email: sales.de@altium.com

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 04:57:27 pm
content: Quote from: FivePoint0 on December 15, 2014, 10:11:38 pmThat they force you to go through a local distributor is completely normal and common business practice - companies often price things differently for different markets and the distributors are not allowed to undercut each other (often a clause in their contracts). E.g. when we are buying some hardware that has an exclusive distributor in France, the UK manufacturer/reseller will send me to the (often more expensive) French distributor and won't talk to me any more.That has nothing to do with the single market - that only specifies, that the companyshall be able to sellacross the whole EU without any other state-imposed restrictions (like tariffs or extra taxes), things that are common for companies from outside of EU. Itdoesn't meanthat they have to sell to you.Does it suck? Yes, sure. Is it legal? Yep, unfortunately.

author: FivePoint0
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2014, 11:06:22 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies.Buying direct from Altium would have been ideal. From my position I don't believe there is any "added value" only added cost.I like the product, very much actually, and if a fraction of the effort wasted on FPGA etc had been channeled properly it could be the best! On top of that it's a shame the company is well just not that friendly. Othersare.In a strange way it almost feels like we are being made to look for an alternative, when with a simple change of attitude everybody could be happier.Has anyone in the UK bought from somewhere other than Premier EDA?

author: koko79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2014, 10:44:40 am
content: If you want to use it in the UK then you need to buy it from Premier EDA. There is not enough users to justify having more than one reseller. Unlike say autodesk or solidworks where there are lots of users so they have lots of resellers. Mentor, Cadence, Zuken and Altium all have just one reseller in the UK. Altium direct will only be interested if you are a big sale and even then would probably want Premier EDA to handle it. For what its worth if its a price thing Mentor, Zuken and Cadence all have good priced software now. Cadence has a Capture and PCB no pin or layer limits which you can rent for £499 a year or buy for £1695. That includes maintenance as well.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2014, 11:00:23 am
content: QuoteThis is mis-informed, yes often, though not typically common, these types of clauses exist in dealer contracts. They are illegal in the EU, A dealer CANNOT be legally prohibited from selling across the EU, not can any sort of "price fixing" be agreed.This type of illegal behaviour was very common in Europe, it was mostly enforced by " phone calls " from the manufacturer , or just them bringing pressure. ( I know I used to be a distributer) .Noone can force a seller to sell to you, but Altium cannot enforce a regime that forces you to buy from a specific distributer or country

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2014, 10:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: MadScientist on December 18, 2014, 11:00:23 amI don't see how is this "mis-informed" - you have yourself confirmed that this behaviour exists. Whether it is illegal or not to put such thing in a re-seller contract, that I don't know, I am not a lawyer. However, this is way too common - if nothing else, the distributors are toeing the line and don't want to go into each others' territory. If they did and the one whose territory was "violated" complained to the manufacturer, the manufacturer could will give the offending reseller a higher price next time or reduce the marketing money (Microsoft is well known for this) or could even revoke the reseller agreement. That is not worth the risk for anyone, especially if their margins are thin already.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2015, 11:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: FivePoint0 on December 15, 2014, 10:11:38 pmTake a look at my post here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-designer-pricing/msg597126/#msg597126If I can assist you, please send me a private message.