I recommend Multimeter with limited budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 am
content: Hi, greetings to all.I live in Italy, I don't speak English, I was looking for a multimeter for non-professional use, I needed a tool to keep at home to use in case of need, just to perform some checks on electronic boards.The budget is quite low, I thought I would spend about € 100 - € 120, as far as possible I would like to get a valid multimeter, with good build quality and that lasts over time. Which model do you recommend ?

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 10:29:52 am
content: Don't worry, even if you don't open them in English, the forum is open to everyone! With that money I would get a uni-T model, decent quality at a low price.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 11:09:30 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amIt's an easy decision if you're in Europe - get a Brymen!eg. The BM235 is a good little meter and easily fits your budget:https://brymen.eu/shop/bm235/

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 02:49:01 pm
content: For 100..120 euros can get you a lot of good stuff, specially if you look for used. Just keep an eye open our your local ebay/craiglist/2nd hand journal/olx/facebook market.You may score a used 87V, I've got mine for 100 usd because it was missing the yellow holster.The BM235 as suggested is pretty cool and very well made and you can support the eevblog by buying from dave.https://www.eevblog.com/product/bm235/A Fluke 17B is also a great meter and very well made.For about 70 euros maybe the UT61E+ be a good choice, although the input protection is not the best (as uni-t's are historically), just do not use for everyday mains probing and it should be fine.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 03:09:45 pm
content: I'm going to shockFungusby agreeing with him. In your locale and at the price listed in his link, the Brymen BM235 is a very good choice. An EU seller, an authorized product and a 3 year warranty are all good things as well.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 03:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amAre you looking for a desktop (da tavola) or a handheld one like the one from Brymen?

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pm
content: @CharlotteSwiss, @Fungus, @rvalente, @bdunham7, @Just_another_DaveThank you very kindThe uni-T multimeters from what they have explained to me and from the exams of Dave Jones do not respect the certifications and safety standards.The BM235 seems great to me, what do you think of the BM257 model ?https://brymen.eu/shop/bm257s/But on the forum it says this:Brymen BM867 CATIV / 1000V Fuses rated only for 600V which is strange because the bigger brother BM869 which is built the same way has 1000V fuses. It appears that this problem can be corrected merely by installing the higher rated fuses. Reviews by mjlorton on his websitewww.mjlorton.comand here by iloveelectronicshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/brymen-bm-867-teardown-pictures/(Submitted by Lightages)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-list-of-multimeters-that-do-not-appear-to-meet-their-claimed-safety-specs/?allIs the 600V limit a problem ? If I have to check a capacitor and I exceed 600v, do I risk immediately blowing the fuse ?Yes, I need a portable multimeter like the BM235The EEVblog Multimeter BM235 is AU $ 160.00 which should be 102 euros, I don't know if I can order from Italy, what changes from the original BM235 ? With 107 euros I take the BM257

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 03:51:09 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amFor low voltage circuits the Aneng 8008 / 8009 / 870 are fine meters and will only set you back $20-$30 USD from aliexpress. These meters have been discussed quite a bit on these forums.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 03:59:08 pm
content: Quote from: ledtester on November 02, 2021, 03:51:09 pmThank you, I knew the Aneng models, for what I have to do they would also be fine, but it is always a Chinese multimeter, the Brymen seem superior to me, I think they are built in Germany.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 04:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmDespite the BM235 is an excellent meter, the BM257 has more features such as bargraph and PC communications. Both will last you a lifetime. Brymen meters are manufactured in Taiwan to an excellent level of quality.Uni-T and Aneng are enough for bench applications but really not very suitable for high power electrical circuits such as you would find in a distribution panel or outdoor electrical installations.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 04:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmYou would have to read the datasheets carefully, but I think the main difference is that the BM257 has PC-Comm which allows you to connect it to a computer with an optional cable.I don't know if the BM235 fuses are rated for 600V or 1000V, but at your level of experience you should not be exceeding 600 volts anyway. Voltage doesn't blow the fuse, current does. The fuses are only involved when you are using the current jacks. The fuses voltage rating refers to the maximum voltage that it can interrupt when it blows. If you exceed both the voltage and current rating of the fuse, your meter may turn into a ball of fire rather than blowing the fuse. This only happens with 'high energy' circuits, such as industrial electrical service panels. You should be pretty safe with anything that runs on batteries or plugs into a wall socket.I think the EEVBlog version comes with better leads. It may be difficult or expensive to get this version in the EU at this time, unfortunately.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 04:33:48 pm
content: I guess it will be easier to give advice if you're more specificabout what are you going to use it for.QuoteAFAIK, the fuses are for the Amp ranges. No expert, but I've neverseen anyone checking capacitors using the Amp ranges.If you don't need Amp ranges you could also look at the Fluke 101.Looks like brymen.eu is based in Poland - check if they handle VATetc., or if you have to do it. There's also a 10-15€ shipping fee.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 05:33:56 pm
content: Quote from: ledtester on November 02, 2021, 03:51:09 pmThe probe sockets on those are pure junk. While the meter is OK what is the point if you cant reliably connect the probes. Do not buy these Aneng stuff.

author: Just_another_Dave
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 06:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmUnless you’re going to work with medium or high voltage applications (which I wouldn’t recommend you doing, unless you really know what you’re doing), 600V is enough for measuring everything. Capacitors used in most circuits are rated below that voltage (higher rated ones can be found in power electronics and maybe some RF applications), so their dielectric will probably break before damaging your multimeter

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 06:38:13 pm
content: If you gonna eventually test a 230V socket, even with a aneng multimeter I'd do it, i'd just be extra careful (specially with that poor pvc prones).But i'd never touch a 380V/440V electrical cabinet with nothing but a CAT III/IV certified instrument. No way.As you're in europe, try finding some used gossen metrawatt or maybe used hiokis, brymens, amprobes (same group as fluke, danaher) any of these are good deals.This is the topic for the uni-t 61e+https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-uni-t-ut61-series-(ut61e)/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:01:05 pm
content: Quote from: rvalente on November 02, 2021, 02:49:01 pmVery basic features though, and in reality no better made than a Brymen.Quote from: rvalente on November 02, 2021, 02:49:01 pmIMHO the UT61E+ is only worth it for the PC logging feature. If you don't need that feature you can geta meter with similar abilities for much less money.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmBM257 is an excellent meter if you want to max out your budget. You get extra features like the bar graph and peak detection.Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmHopefully not. You shouldn't really be going near 600V.Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmA capacitor should always be fully discharged before you measure it, ie. at 0V.It wouldn't blow the fuse anyway, the fuses are only on the amps ranges.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:09:06 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on November 02, 2021, 05:33:56 pmI don't know what abuse your meters receive but I own Anengs that have lasted for many years. My old AN860B+ is one of my favorite meters ever.If you get an Aneng be sure to get some gold probes to go with it. They really make a big difference.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:27:20 pm
content: Thank you all, very kind.I need the multimeter to check electronic boards, power supplies, for the moment I have an electrode welder, a satellite receiver and a PC power supply that I would like to check because they don't work, things like that.I was referring to the voltage of the capacitors which sometimes reaches 1000v, this for example is 1000v but we are talking about voltage, the voltages of the alternating current I think it is a different thing.As a shop that sells in Europe there is also this,:https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM257s-Multimeter_3Regarding the Aneng I saw the video of Dave, when he opens the multimeter he has a laugh, he says that it is not very solid:

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:40:47 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amUni-T UT161, will cost +- $70 on AliExpress 11-11 (AC 20kHz, AC+DC).Or Kaisi K-9033 (dual display and bargraph) or Aneng AN870 for +- $32.Or if you just want to have a DMM for eventual use at home: Aneng M118A (auto selection and range) for $11

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:50:20 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:27:20 pmYou can think about a Small DMM & Oscilloscope (very important for modern boards), like this one: Hanmatek HO52 50M, $138 -https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002339897106.html

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:53:06 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 02, 2021, 08:40:47 pmAbout the aneng and uni-t multimeters they explained this to me, this is what they wrote to me:"Forget the various ANENG and emulate digital multimeters (already because they exist also rebranded). Dave Jones when he examined one (and to realize it just open one as I did on my 8008) highlighted the internal constructive danger.Yes, because they are invariably all (including the aforementioned UNI-T 61E) with alleged certifications for the various categories of overvoltages induced on the electricity distribution networks, 105% disregarded.As a design of the printed circuit (dimensions, areas of respect provided to avoid the firing of dangerous internal sparks due to the limited space; absence of slots in the air, etc.) as well as as passive components for managing the transistors (PTC first of all but also varistors with metal oxides, gas dischargers these very uncommon indeed).And this is a question of safety first of all that the purchase price; Digital multimeters of this kind are only suitable as fourth, fifth equipment and only for direct current measurements (within 250 Volts AC ... I wouldn't dare to measure potential differences above 400 Volt AC at 50 Hz). "

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 08:58:41 pm
content: I think my Hantek 2C42 is border line valid as a DMM but it does fit your budget - you get an oscilloscope to boot.Can't comment much on the previous suggestions (Uni-T, BM235, used Fluke 87V, BM235, Fluke 17B, UT61E, Aneng 8008/8009/870, BM257, Fluke 101, used Gossen Metrawatt et al) other than a quality DMM appears to be at least a long lasting product, in my experience.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 09:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 02, 2021, 08:50:20 pmBeautiful instrument but it's too expensive for me, yes the oscilloscope is very important, maybe in the future I could even buy it.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 09:09:02 pm
content: Quote from: armandine2 on November 02, 2021, 08:58:41 pmThe Gossen Metrawatt falls within the budget, the Hantek 2C42 costs 168 €https://www.conrad.it/p/gossen-metrawatt-metraline-dm-61-multimetro-portatile-digitale-cat-iii-600-v-cat-iv-300-v-display-counts-6600-1897112?gclid=Cj0KCQjww4OMBhCUARIsAILndv6jUXoUJ4VzN8oJRMKU0AXoVy4FFa1gyCHQUERRf3O97WYrmLubSMQaApHiEALw_wcB&source=googleps&utm_campaign=shopping-feed&utm_content=free-google-shopping-clicks&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_source=google&utm_term=1897112&vat=true

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 09:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 09:00:28 pm€ 120 = USD$ 139, this is exactly your budget. Is a DMM + Oscilloscope in the same device.Another option is the Unit UT161E (it's save, you can find reviews up 1000V+) and the KKmoon DS0120M ($60) or ADS5012H ($65)https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001864713768.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001294858727.htmlTotal will be $125 (the DMM is better, but the scope is only 1 channel)

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 09:30:35 pm
content: Re. price of hantek - mine was a bargain

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2021, 10:32:14 pm
content: @Trader, @armandine2Opening the link the price is slightly different:I do not know the brand in question, on aliexpress there is a risk that they make me pay customs.Besides the oscilloscope, I would need a capacimeter to test the capacitors. Sorry to the translator it's difficult.https://it.aliexpress.com/item/32753389334.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.3502665f1eyoFz&algo_pvid=ebc8f5be-a86f-456b-bb77-e03f2d377557&algo_exp_id=ebc8f5be-a86f-456b-bb77-e03f2d377557-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000017750025530%22%7DI was left with the doubt of the capacitors, the 1000v of the capacitors have nothing to do with the 1000v of the alternating current ? at home there are no problems the maximum is 230v, it is also true that the capacitor must be discharged before taking the measurement.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 01:37:47 am
content: Check the price on Nov-11. Check other sellers.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 01:57:49 am
content: Quote from: Trader on November 03, 2021, 01:37:47 amOkay, I'll do some more research, thank you

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 03:13:15 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:59:08 pmBryman itself is a Taiwanese company.This excerpt from bryman.eu doesn't mention Europe:Quote

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 03:56:23 am
content: Quote from: ledtester on November 03, 2021, 03:13:15 amYes, that's right, unfortunately I was wrong, the bryman company is in Taiwan, thanks for the correction.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 09:32:10 am
content: I like the look of the Gossen you linked - but it looks like you do not get a capacitance function.The Hantek capacitance specs are not spectacular - see below (range, accuracy, resolution)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 09:34:41 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 10:32:14 pmThe voltage shown in the capacitor only specifies its maximum operating range, not a voltage that is constantly present on it.In other words, the capacitor can be charged with any voltage from near zero volts up to 1000 VDCand you always want to discharge it before measuring it.A capacitor cannot store AC voltage.Regarding the other options suggested and reviewing your original post, for light use and no involvement with high power electrical systems you will be satisfied with most of the suggestions here. A summary would be:If you are looking for a meter that will last you a lifetime, go with the Brymen meters and perhaps even the Fluke 17B - but the Fluke is the one that has the least amount of features. One advantage of these brands is that, if you buy them from an official channel in Europe, you will have warranty.The Uni-T UT-61+ and the UT-161 are good options at a lower price than the Brymens and have better input protection than the other lower cost options. They may be also sold by a distributor in Europe, which would give you warranty as well, but I suspect the price will be higher that buying direct from China and you will miss the warranty.The Aneng AN870 is also a good option at an even lower price, which can suit your needs as well. But it will come at the cost of being mechanically and electrically less robust when compared to the other options. I suspect they don't have an official sales channel in Europe and buying direct, although cheaper, will give you no warranty in case of problems.The cheaper Anengs mentioned here (8008, 8009) have several reports of mechanical weakness (I have a similar model and can attest to this) and, in my opinion, are not worth it. At this price range (below twenty dollars), in my opinion me the best meter is the Richmeters RM113D.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 10:13:21 am
content: My mistake on the Gossen - if you get the DM62 version, you get a capacitance measuring function

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 11:00:29 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 03:42:30 pmUnsafe Uni-T? So would I be lucky to still be alive? I have 3 uni-T multimeters, I've never had a problem. I would buy them back!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 03:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on November 03, 2021, 11:00:29 amI'd take the word of somebody who looked at the circuit and components over an anecdote of "not dead yet".

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 05:08:06 pm
content: Of all these anecdotes I am entirely sure, that the "not dead yet" part is in most of the cases true, if the poster is talking about himself. (herself in case of Charlotte.)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 06:15:44 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on November 03, 2021, 05:08:06 pmIt's also true of free DT830 meters.So long as you operate then 100% correctly they'll measure 1000V! Just make sure the dial is never in the wrong position and you'll be fine.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2021, 07:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amI found an Excellent DMM, the best option you can find for that price, and it's on Italy.https://www.ebay.com/itm/Is-dmm180-Digital-Multimeter-High-Precision-PC-Auto-Range-True-RMS-rs232-/224560612944This is the Same Mastech MS8218, for Only 50 euros!!! A bargain.https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMMastech%20MS8218%20UK.htmlCheck the datasheet, it can't measure high capacitors, but all other measures are like a high end DMM.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 am
content: Thank you very much to everyone, very kind,@rsjsouzaIf I understand correctly the fuses of the multimeters are intended for current and not voltage measurements, the brymen 257s has two fuses inside one holds up to 10A and the other up to 400mA, if the capacitor is charged and I measure it in voltage should not have problems, with the multimeter in capacitance mode if the capacitor charged instead could be damaged.Great summary thank you so much for your availability and the time you have dedicated.Yes exactly, I need the multimeter for light use, at most I could use it on the home system, but I do not exceed 230vI like the Brymen very much, it was also recommended to me on an Italian forum, yes the warranty and spare parts are very important especially if the price of the multimeter is high.Personally I prefer to take a device that lasts me for many years, of course the price of the Aneng AN870 is great, it is on aliexpress, but I don't like to buy on this site, the delivery times are very long and in case of failure I don't know what guarantees I have.Here I found a review:https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMAnengAN870%20UK.htmlThe Richmeters RM113D. I found it in this Italian shop:https://www.manomano.it/p/richmeters-rm113d-multimetro-digitale-voltmetro-13631000@CharlotteSwiss I meant that they are less safe compared to a high end multimeter, that's what I read on the forums, I don't know if that's true.@ Trader These DMMs are really interesting, I must say that I did not know this brand, I do not know where it is built and if there is an official site or shop that sells in Europe, I hope it is not Chinese, yes I have seen the price on ebay, there is written that it is new but it is strange, new costs almost double.In this regard, I also found a manual in Italian:http://www.radiosurplus.it/pdf/DMM180.pdfHow build quality and internal components is better the DMM or the Brymen ?

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 12:47:42 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amHi Marck,I believe that if they were really dangerous, the same manufacturer would have run for cover. Honestly, I too had read some unfavorable opinions on the web, but it seemed to me a stance in favor of other brands. Then if the reasoning would be: better a uni-T or a Fluke, the answer seems obvious to me. But it would be like comparing a small city car with a Ferrari sports car

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 01:45:43 am
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on November 04, 2021, 12:47:42 amHi, I do not think they are so dangerous to the point of being withdrawn from the market, from what I understand I think it is a problem related to certifications.I'll report what they wrote to me in a forum:". I say immediately forget the various ANENG and emulate digital multimeters (already because they exist also rebranded). Dave Jones when he examined one (and to realize it just open one as I did on my 8008) highlighted the danger internal construction.Yes, because they are invariably all (including the aforementioned UNI-T 61E) with alleged certifications for the various categories of overvoltages induced on the electricity distribution networks, 105% disregarded.As a design of the printed circuit (dimensions, areas of respect provided to avoid the firing of dangerous internal sparks due to the limited space; absence of slots in the air, etc.) as well as as passive components for managing the transistors (PTC first of all but also varistors with metal oxides, gas dischargers these very uncommon indeed).And this is a question of safety first of all that the purchase price; Digital multimeters of this kind are only suitable as fourth, fifth equipment and only for direct current measurements (within 250 Volts AC ... I wouldn't dare to measure potential differences above 400 Volts at 50 Hz). "They say that for voltages within 250 volts a.c. there are no problems, then I don't know what to say, I'm ignorant on the subject.I show you the various reviews I have read, they are in Italian though:http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6609#p6609http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6697#p6697http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7080#p7080http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7761#p7761http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7808#p7808http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16577#p16577http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17600#p17600http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17974#p17974http://mylothehack.altervista.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=18245#p18245

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 03:33:39 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amCheck that review page and the videos (part I and II), is a Solid, Safe, Cheap and Excellent DMM.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 04:06:19 am
content: Quote from: Trader on November 04, 2021, 03:33:39 amThank you, unfortunately there are no subtitles about the videos, I will try other videos.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 04:31:39 am
content: Quote from: armandine2 on November 03, 2021, 10:13:21 amAfter some research I found the DM-61 I think they are almost the same:https://www.conrad.it/p/gossen-metrawatt-metraline-dm-61-multimetro-portatile-digitale-cat-iii-600-v-cat-iv-300-v-display-counts-6600-1897112?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5oiMBhDtARIsAJi0qk3juhMFvbQUNMhBN4xiq3jtIiDpxqdA61zb81JAQI5znUYw7E3orusaAtxvEALw_wcB&source=googleps&utm_campaign=shopping-feed&utm_content=free-google-shopping-clicks&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_source=google&utm_term=1897112&vat=trueThe DM-62 costs 150 €:https://www.amazon.it/GOSSEN-METRAWATT-METRALINE-Hand-Multimeter-Digital-Kalibriert/dp/B07GTTV7F2

author: erwets
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 04:53:19 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 08:56:27 amDepending on your use case the Aneng AN8008 is afantasticlittle multi-meter for like $20 USD. I know people are a bit pessimistic about its build quality, but I purchased a couple which have lasted for quite a while now.I have done some fairly advanced work with a couple AN8008's on some tricky projects. I don't recommend the AN8008 (or any cheap multimeter) if you are working with higher voltages (say anything > 50V). Otherwise, you should certainly consider getting it.For other applications, I can also highly recommend Dave's Bryman BM786.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 06:02:57 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amCorrect.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amThe meter shouldn't be damaged, that's the difference between the Brymen and a cheap meter.But... it won't be able to measure the capacitor.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 06:09:40 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amI don't understand this logic.You get no garantees but that's perfectly OK when you pay half price for everything.If one in ten things fail you're still ahead by a big margin.(and failure is lower than that)The secret is not to randomly buy the total crap they sell on there, only buy things that other people have bought and recommend.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 10:23:00 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amYou are correct on the first assertive for any of the meters mentioned in this thread. On the second assertive, the Brymen is the only one that will most probably survive the mistake, with a lower chance for the Uni-T meters.And that is where your decision process is: if you are looking for a multimeter that will be more forgiving with mistakes, the Brymen and the Fluke are the ones with the most chance of survival.Just keep in mind that no equipment replaces the lack of attention and inexperience, thus always be attentive when making measurements and any model here can last you many years.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amNo need to thank me. As you can tell, we on this forum love to talk about multimeters.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amFor light use, you may be thinking that you are spending too much right now but it may simply be your only purchase for life. If that is your rationale, then the cost of purchasing a meter today will be insignificant throughout its lifetime - 20 or 40 Euro will make zero difference if the meter lasts 10, 15, 20 years...My dad bought a very expensive ICE in the late 1970s that I used when I was a kid and I still have it! Years later we bought a digital (also expensive) meter that lasted with me for 20, 25 years and it was lost due to a stupid mistake on my part. Both meters had great lives and survived my inexperience of early years.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 amAlthough I and many others here have successfully bought things on Aliexpress and Banggood many times, the risk is higher that things can go wrong. At the end of the day, it is your money and therefore balance the risk with what your conscience makes you more comfortable.I must say that the price of the Richmeters in the store is a bit high for what the meter offers, but buying locally can give you some extra reassurance with returns and (maybe) warranty - just be sure to have all the terms fully clarified with the dealer before making the purchase.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pm
content: @erwetsPerhaps the aneng an870 is slightly higher, yes in my case it would also be fine for the electronic boards, it may happen to carry out some checks in the home system which is at 230v, however even in the electronic boards such as in the power supplies there is always the high voltage part at 230vI think the Bryman BM786 exceeds the budget, I don't know if there is a shop that ships to Europe.@FungusAs I said on aliexpress I have never purchased, I have no judgments about it and I do not know their return policies and guarantees, I do not like the fact of waiting two weeks to receive the goods.Yes, the reviews are very important, as long as they are all authentic, even on amazon if I'm not mistaken they have withdrawn some tacklife products because there have been problems with the reviews.If I buy a product that costs € 50 and pay € 25 for it and I have no guarantees, I still lose my money in case of problems, and I have to buy the product again, I repeat that I do not know the aliexpress return policies, I do not know how it works, I think that by law there are guarantees otherwise no one would buy. In Europe we have a 2-year warranty, at least in Italy it is like that.@rsjsouzaYes, the use of the multimeter in my case is light, the high voltage part at 230v is still present above all in the power supplies:If I'm not mistaken, the ICEs are an Italian company located in Milan, they are truly exceptional multimeters, someone has complained that those recently manufactured no longer have the quality of those produced in past years.https://www.amazon.it/MULTIMETER-ANALOGICO-MOD-680R/dp/B00B22CP26/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=tester+ICE&qid=1636030830&sr=8-3#customerReviewsI agree, I have to be careful what I measure and how I set the multimeter otherwise I risk damaging it.Yes, the choices to climb with price and quality are these:-Brymen BM257s-Gossen metraline DM-Uni-T Ut61e-Aneng AN870-RichmetersOn Aliexpress and Banggood I have never purchased, I have to inform myself well, there is also the question of customs, it depends on the type of shipment, inside there are many shops, it is a bit like ebay I think, on ebay I have protection from paypal, I usually only buy products shipped by amazon, some even say that on Aliexpress they are better than amazon

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 03:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pmAmazon is much better than Aliexpress. Check this DMM:https://www.amazon.it/Multimetro-Elettrico-Temperature-Continuit%C3%A0-Retroilluminazione/dp/B07KSRPHZ5/https://www.amazon.it/LOMVUM-T28B-multitester-amperometro-identificazione/dp/B07FVT5HVX/

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 03:25:20 pm
content: A person I know (professional electronic) who works in Ticino has always used an Italian brand: HThttps://www.ht-instruments.it/it-it/prodotti/multimetri-digitali/From what he told me, they are of good quality at a fair price.If, on the other hand, you want decent quality at a low price, I have to repeat myself: UNI-T

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 03:29:50 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pmICE is a Milanese company and they even have a website with replacement parts.https://www.icericambi.it/That said, I wouldn't purchase an analog meter, unless I had a very specific requirement or was feeling nostalgic.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pmAt least here in the US, Amazon sells some garbage products, but the Amazon machine has a great deal of power to influence and can be very helpful to solve problems. A similar story happens with eBay and Paypal.As for Aliexpress and Banggood, I personally never lost money with a transaction but I had much more failures with their sellers than with the other two. Not to mention that, depending on conditions of international freight, packages can take quite a long time to arrive (or not arrive at all).

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 04:24:36 pm
content: QuoteJust remember that 230Vac is an average - when rectifiedand smoothed in that power supply, it will be ~330Vdc.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 05:15:06 pm
content: I really wonder how unsafe is a DMM, I mean, around the world (most in poor countries) there are thousands of people working for years with just a simple DT830 in several electric/electronics areas with 600V+ (I don't recommend this).I think the Aneng AN870 or the Uni-T UT161 are pretty ok for a 600V-1000V range, and the most important is the Probe (20A probe is pretty safe).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 05:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 04, 2021, 05:15:06 pmAnd then you post a video showing a cheap DMM literally exploding and flames coming out of the power strip that it is connected to.....Yes, the worldwide DMM mortality rate is probably pretty low. However, I see no reason that someone willing to spend 100 Euros should buy cheap junk.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 05:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 04, 2021, 05:44:09 pmI said "I don't recommend" that DMM, I just want to show that even if you try to measure the "current in your mains", only the DMM will be harmed (most of the time).The main point is about the AN870 and UT161, both are safe; the AN870 has a strong rubber protection, the UT161 has a high brand fuse and several PTCs.I had a similar accident with a cheap chinese DMM and just the fuse exploded. The DT830 has no fuse, maybe this is the reason the DMM exploded (the DMM is the fuse, LOL).

author: Bobson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 06:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 03, 2021, 07:30:47 pmAs a previous owner of this piece of s*t, I can say it is in no way Excellent or like a high-end DMM.It is incredibly slow, bargraph is ultraslow, PC connectivity software is a nightmare.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 07:43:43 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 04, 2021, 05:15:06 pmThe major issue with ultra-cheap meters is that you can't always guarantee what you are getting over the years. The Mastech M830 clones such as the DT830 you mentioned have been through so many iterations of price reduction that you can't really know what you are getting. Check the thread below for details about these meters over the years:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/harbor-freight-cen-tech-90899-small-teardown/Even Uni-T was caught doing that with their UT61E meters (the precursor to the UT61E+ discussed here).The issue with the video is that the meter not only failed to contain the explosion but such event will scare you enough to cause a good injury in case you are on top of a ladder measuring a lightbulb socket, for example. By the way, the guy in the video should not be holding the already very frail probes with both hands - any issues and his heart will take the impulse.Quote from: Trader on November 04, 2021, 05:15:06 pmJust be careful that, apart from vacuum tube circuits, those voltage levels are mostly present in systems with quite a large power delivery (a three phase system, distribution panel, etc.)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 08:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pmTrue, but you're completely missing the point.If you buy two products at that price and one of them breaks then you're still ahead by $25even though you had to buy another one.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 01:28:03 pmImagine there aren't any, if that helps.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2021, 09:13:54 pm
content: @Trader, @CharlotteSwiss, @rsjsouza, @tunk, @ bdunham7, @Bobson, @FungusThank you very much everyone, I received a lot of advice, it is a wonderful forum.I thought DMM was a brand instead it means digital multimeterYes Amazon as guarantees and support is unbeatable, of course I only buy products shipped from Amazon, yes it is true there are many junk productsOn Aliaexpress they do not always cost half, it depends on the products I think, you have to see how much you pay to send them back, all the time that is lost then, if a product is defective I prefer to be reimbursed, there is also the risk of customs, not always obviously, many people who bought it were happy, there is a minimum of risk everywhere.Regarding the budgeted HT multimeters I found these:https://www.amazon.it/HT-Instruments-Compatto-multimetro-misurazione-temperatura/dp/B019ZFIIE0/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3% 91 & crid = 2MOLNCYE2YM6T & keywords = multimeter + ht & qid = 1636057541 & sprefix = multimeter + ht% 2Caps% 2C196 & sr = 8-5 # customerReviewshttps://www.amazon.it/HT-Instruments-estremamente-multimetro-digitale-integrato/dp/B01F5DAUHY/ref=sr_1_14?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3% 91 & crid = 2MOLNCYE2YM6T & keywords = multimeter + ht & qid = 1636057541 & sprefix = multimeter + ht% 2Caps% 2C196 & sr = 8-14I should deepen my research regarding HT multimeters, from the few reviews I have read they look great, I don't know if they are better than BrymenYes it's true ICE is a Milanese company, the analog multimeters I have seen are used to test capacitors:A technician who repairs televisions uses it a lot:In the end, with the budget that I have, the winner seems to me to be Brymen, this shop sells everywhere both on amazon and on ebay:https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM257s-Multimeter_2https://www.ebay.it/itm/273679202038?hash=item3fb88d36f6:g:eE8AAOSwBdJc7csNhttps://www.amazon.it/Digital-multimeter-Bargraph24-segm-40x-BM257S/dp/B01M0B4W6B

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 06:52:16 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 09:13:54 pmMaybe.The cheapest Aneng 870 on amazon.es is 52 Euros and delivery "2 - 14 of december" (One month)In the Aneng official store on Aliexpress it's 33 Euros + free 12 day shipping.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 09:13:54 pmYou still don't see the big picture.Youdon'tpay to send them back.Ever. If it arrives broken you file a complaint and usually get your money back, or a partial refund.Then you order another one.a) It doesn't usually happen, so why worry?b) In the long term you come out far ahead in terms of money.Quote from: marck120 on November 04, 2021, 09:13:54 pmNot since June 2021. Aliexpress now charges VAT/IVA directly so there's no extra customs charges.Plus you get an invoice. Try getting an invoice out of Amazon. They'll send you one from Luxembourg or something.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 10:45:12 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 05, 2021, 06:52:16 amThe Aneng 870 that is on Amazon is sold from an external shop, I usually only buy products shipped from Amazon, usually the goods arrive in 4-5 days.On Amazon I have always been happy, if there are problems you can choose whether to replace the product with another or return it and get a full refund, some time ago I bought a pair of scissors, unfortunately it was damaged, the courier went to your home to collect the package and finally I was refunded the full amount of the item.I explained that I have never bought on Aliexpress and that I do not know their rules, so I cannot give a judgment, I have no experience in this regard.The important thing is to receive a full refund or even replacement is fine in case the item arrives damaged, I have to understand even if there is a guarantee, for a valuable item I think there is a guarantee.About the Aneng 870 I found some reviews:https://www.pieraisa.it/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3825https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMAnengAN870%20UK.html

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 03:50:03 pm
content: The cheapest and good Brymens I found are these:https://www.ebay.it/itm/273321048791https://www.ebay.it/itm/273679202038For me the best option (cost-benefit) is the Unit-T UT161 (Aliexpress 11-11), it will cost less than half of these prices. Or Kaisi K-9033 or Aneng AN870, less than 1/3 or 1/4 of Brymens.But if you can increase your budget:https://www.ebay.it/itm/273321049022

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 08:13:51 pm
content: Quote from: Trader on November 05, 2021, 03:50:03 pmThanks for the reports, very kind.The Brymen shop is always this:https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM257s-Multimeter_2sells on ebay and on Amazon:https://www.amazon.it/Digital-multimeter-Bargraph24-segm-40x-BM257S/dp/B01M0B4W6BYes, for the Brymen bm867s I would have to increase the budget, I don't know if it suits me, in the end I could also take the Brymen bm235, the Brymen bm257s is only 25 € more.I did not know the Kaisi K-9033:https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1000008353803.htmlThe UT161 should be this:https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005002717433552.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.28d813a3qet3wL&algo_pvid=952820c1-020d-4e26-b8af-0a55b829-4e26-b8af-0a55b829-4e2202_expc26-952-9520-852-35829-exp829-502-0a55b829b554-0 & pdp_ext_f =% 7B% 22sku_id% 22% 3A% 2212000021840472942% 22% 7DNow I decide what to do, I just have to choose between the models in question. The Brymen is certainly the best, the choice is only a matter of price.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 08:23:00 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on November 04, 2021, 03:25:20 pmNow this Italian brand seems interesting, not heard of it before, and not much discussion about it on eevblog either.I reccommend you and marck120 to check Joe Smith's chnannel on Youtube. If someone has the money, it is worth to buy the Brymens because it is both mechanically and electrically more robust. It will just last longer.So it is not only about safety, or features, but longevity as well.On the other hand once I read an interesting sentence from an honourable member, which could be interesting for the very few ladies here in the forum:Quote from: Fungus on February 23, 2021, 05:42:21 pmQuote from: bd139 on February 23, 2021, 05:45:45 pmQuote from: Fungus on February 23, 2021, 07:44:00 pmCharlotte I just wanted to know your oppinion about the dresscode you could recommend if someone would like to make an impression on ladies when showing up in an event with a Fluke. Ladies around me could never really ansver the question, and I did not dare to open a topic for this.And I am still undecided whether the Brymen could make the same effect. I think indeed that the Brymen owners could very welcome some encouragement, that theirs would do it as well, and the extra money to spend it on Fluke is not that much needed!

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 08:28:27 pm
content: If you don't need to measure amps, why not go with a Fluke?FLUKE 15B+ F15B+ $127.00https://www.amazon.com/FLUKE-15B-Range-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B00QRQHLVC/ref=sr_1_54?crid=27AM9ENQ7X2KA&keywords=Fluke&qid=1636143810&sprefix=fluke%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-54Or,Fluke 17B+ $162.00https://www.amazon.com/Multimeter-Temperature-Frequency-CARRYING-INCLUDED/dp/B00VURQDHQ/ref=sr_1_70?crid=27AM9ENQ7X2KA&keywords=Fluke&qid=1636143898&sprefix=fluke%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-70If you don't need to measure amps:Fluke 101 $45.00https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-101-Multimeter-Equipment-Industrial/dp/B01IB9S6WK/ref=sr_1_85?crid=27AM9ENQ7X2KA&keywords=Fluke&qid=1636144072&sprefix=fluke%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-85

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 09:03:55 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 05, 2021, 10:45:12 amThe discussion in the forum above is a typical discussion when the AN870 is mentioned: reasonable for the price but, despite the possibility of a multi-kV event in a lifetime to be minimal, don't expect any safety at all if you are unlucky. My main issue is not with the rare event where a transient can make sparks fly, but the event where you are distracted and you slap 230V with the meter on ohms or temperature - the Aneng and the Richmeters are the ones with the least chance of survivability, followed by the Uni-Ts and at the top it would be the Flukes, Brymens, Gossens, Hiokis, etc.That said, Fungus has a point where you can throw one in the trashcan while buying the second one in case of any failures - something that can happen with any meter, really, but the cheaper one would save you money in this event. As you said yourself, the decision hinges on what you value the most on your new equipment. The main suggestions you summarized in one of your previous posts will serve you well.Quote from: marck120 on November 05, 2021, 08:13:51 pmJust be careful with this model in particular: years ago I reviewed the same meter from another brand (Surpeer AV4) and it was a very unfinished product - bad bargraph, several non-working functions... For the price you are much better served by the AN870.Quote from: Neutrion on November 05, 2021, 08:23:00 pmThis brand is an OEM for Mastech. They used to be the king of ultra cheap low quality meters, but were supplanted by Zotek and its OEMs (Aneng, Richmeters, Zoyi, etc.). I have a couple of their meters and they are not great.Quote from: DW1961 on November 05, 2021, 08:28:27 pmIn my experience with two Fluke 101s, I had quality control issues with both and would not personally recommend as I don't think the legendary Fluke quality is present in this meter - besides, it lacks several functions and for the same price I think any other meter is a better choice. For the 15B+ and the 17B+, unfortunately I never had them but people praise them a lot - however, as with all Flukes, the features are quite scarce when compared to the other models discussed here in the same price range.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 10:05:18 pm
content: You should also consider the UNI-T UT210E Pro Clamp Meter.Is a very good DMM and very precise current meter.UNI-T UT161E and UNI-T UT210E will be around $100.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 11:01:58 pm
content: @Neutrion, @DW1961, @rsjsouza, @TraderIn particular, the FLUKE 15B + is very interesting, it falls within my budget:https://www.ebay.it/itm/123770864016?hash=item1cd1518190:g:oBsAAOSw3QpZbFpGhttps://it.aliexpress.com/item/33045309725.html?src=google&src=google&memo1=freelisting&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=9317477424&albag=97096040627&trgt=536572975094&crea=it33045309725&netw=u&device=c&albpg=536572975094&albpd=it33045309725&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrJOMBhCZARIsAGEd4VFBmEXsCX-JxT_-6AHJeErfH0Vg6EsZFqosEo4Vh8sB7cjBby9OcrcaAvW-EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=e4b72e6b1ebb4a298c9e07e13adcabf6-1636151252084-02791-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=e4b72e6b1ebb4a298c9e07e13adcabf6-1636151252084-02791-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=20595a34fc63406d91c5329d9794bd56Unfortunately, on Amazon.com the shipping costs are too high:In this price range it seems important to me to compare the FLUKE 15B + with the Brymen bm257s, with the FLUKE 15B + did you explain to me that I have fewer functions ?Can't I measure amplifiers with the FLUKE 15B + ? With google translate I can't understand, what is meant by amplifiers ?How build quality and internal components is the FLUKE 15B + better than the Brymen bm257s ?In this regard, I found some discussion:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/brymen-bm257s-or-fluke-17b/https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectronics/comments/d1qr2i/brymen_bm235_vs_fluke_17b/

author: xbb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 11:34:55 pm
content: If you buy the Brymen I don't think you'll regret it ever, get one with silicone leads.You can buy it fromhttps://brymen.eu/,https://welectron.com/orhttps://www.tme.eu/Another cheap option to consider might be this:https://www.amazon.it/AmazonCommercial-Compact-Digital-Mulitmeter-Temperature/dp/B083V7N12H/,but I'm not sure how safe/durable it isIf you want the Aneng, I can tell you that it's safe to buy from the official store in AliExpress

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2021, 11:50:59 pm
content: marck120I have a 15B (not +) and it's an excellent basic DMM however be aware 15 & 17's come from Asia and do not have international warranty. Nearly 10 years back when I got mine and a bunch of them for a customer I brought extras as the local supplier so to offer a replacement warranty but being Fluke of course that wasn't needed.Our customer got one of the little US made reference boards to keep an eye on their accuracy and after a year only a couple out of 15 needed tweaking to have the LSD match for them all and of course they were all still in spec despite daily the use by Avionics cadets.These have some miniature pots in them so you can adjust them if required although again being Fluke that's proven to be unlikely.If I was to upgrade and I'm not, Daves BM235 would be a likely candidate although I have heard reports the selector switch in Bymens are stiffer than many other DMM's and that might be afor me. YMMV.Must try Defpom's one next I visit him with gear to review.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:04:14 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 05, 2021, 11:01:58 pmI'm not sure what "amplifiers" means in this context either, perhaps audio? The Fluke 15B is a Chinese market only meter AFAIK and would not have any official warranty in your country. It is also average-responding on AC volts, not TRMS--and has a very limited bandwidth as well. Someone correct me if any of that is wrong as I've never laid hands on one. The BM235 and 257s have an on-chip sampling TRMS that is also low bandwidth (under 1kHz) only. If you want audio-frequency BW on AC volts, you need to go up a few models.As for the build quality, the word is that they're both perfectly adequate, but I've no personal experience.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:38:32 am
content: @xbbI agree with you, the Brymen are high quality multimeters, I was only making a comparison with the FLUKE 15B + since both are excellent, in terms of value for money and functions, perhaps the Brymen bm257s is betterThe AmazonCommercial multimeter looks great, there are tons of models, it takes a long time to do research on all models.Yes, the official Aneng shop should look like this:https://en.aliexpress.com/item/33004463675.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_promotion.promoteRecommendProducts_undefined.13@tautechI did not know that the Fluke 15 and 17 came from Asia and as you explained to me without international warranty.In case you had to upgrade your multimeters you told me you would choose a Daves BM235, a custom Brymen basically, so I assume the Fluke 15 and 17 are quite dated models and you think the Brymens are better than the Flukes in question.I believe the Brymen bm257s has more functions than the FLUKE 15B +, as build quality I cannot say which is the best. In the end, accuracy is important when it comes to measurements.@ bdunham7I also had thought of an audio amplifier, I don't know, if in my country there is no official guarantee for the Fluke 15B then it is better to leave it alone, maybe bought on a European shop the guarantee of the European community is applied, I don't know how it works.No the BW in audio frequency on volts AC does not interest me also because I do not even know what it means.Perhaps the Brymen bm257s has more features.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 01:09:36 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 06, 2021, 12:38:32 amAFAIK, the PC-Comm feature is the only significant thing the BM257s has over the BM235. Either one will suit your needs.

author: Trader
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 01:44:12 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 05, 2021, 11:01:58 pmIn the very beginning, I recommended you to buy a Multimeter-Oscilloscope around your budget (see that post).The best DMM for Audio must be True RMS with an AC bandwidth of 20Khz, AFAIK the UT161E fills these requirements*.* (the UT61E was tested up to 20 kHz and worked properly)

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 02:13:25 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on November 05, 2021, 08:28:27 pmIf it works, it must be a Fluke!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 03:35:26 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 06, 2021, 01:09:36 amBargraph, as well as frequency meter.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 03:58:49 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 06, 2021, 12:38:32 amNo, only a better/different feature set.Look again at the spec for 15/17B for bench and general electronic work and for sure they don't have all the bells and whistles which if needed I would use another instrument on hand.When I got mine they were only $62 yet still lots more than any gawds amount of cheaper meters in the marketplace and more than double the cost of most....but it's a Fluke !joeqsmith tests meters to failure and the 15B+ fared very well in all his tests which is what you might expect from Flukes decades of engineering and design experience.QuoteCertainly higher functionality for the Brymen vs 15B but accuracy will be similar as it should for brands of their reputations although Fluke as mentioned has decades more experience and I don't overlook that. YMMV

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 04:51:50 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 05, 2021, 11:01:58 pmYou can measure Amperage / Current with the Fluke 15B+. You cannot measure current with the Fluke 101.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 08:29:13 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on November 05, 2021, 08:28:27 pmBecause they'reveryexpensive for the features you get.Brymen is just as good quality but you get much more for your money. Plus it's easy to buy in Europe.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 08:42:00 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 06, 2021, 03:58:49 amHe also tested Brymens and found no problems.Also: Brymen is the only company that responded directly to Joe's results and sent him new meters and new firmwares to try.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 10:47:59 am
content: Thank you so much everyone@ bdunham7, @Trader, @ledtester, @rsjsouza, @tautech, @ DW1961, @Fungus@ bdunham7I was referring to the number of functions between the BM257 and the Fluke 15B +, exactly as you explained to me the BM257 compared to the BM235 has the PC-Comm function and the frequency meter, in the end I don't know if I will ever use all the functions.@Trader,Of course, I remember the posts, I don't know if the BM257 is also a True RMS with an AC bandwidth of 20Khzhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/i-recommend-multimeter-with-limited-budget/msg3788222/#msg3788222https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/i-recommend-multimeter-with-limited-budget/msg3788258/#msg3788258@rsjsouzaIn a post you explained to me the differences between the BM257 compared to the BM235, even if the bargraph I don't know exactly what it is forhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/i-recommend-multimeter-with-limited-budget/msg3787649/#msg3787649@tautech, @ DW1961, @FungusI was looking at the BM257 and Fluke 15B + manuals:https://www.fluke.com/en-in/product/electrical-testing/digital-multimeters/fluke-15b-plus#,https: //dam-assets.fluke .com / s3fs-public / 151718__umeng0000.pdf,https://brymen.eu/shop/bm257s/?gclid=CjwKCAjwz5iMBhAEEiwAMEAwGI_Mf9R0ehsdxTyiXsfYcGKUTRTi574jPxqoxNA_fWmcyiWCZxFEERoCu6MQAvD_BwE,https://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102085/102085.KARTA_EN..2010-03-09.1.pdf,http://www.brymen.com/images/ProductsList/BM250s_List/BM250s-manual-print1-IEC61010-1-3rd-r2.pdfObviously the manuals are all in English I do not understand much, I have not made a list of the functions of the respective multimeters, by eye the BM257 as you have confirmed has more functions, all the basic functions I think there are also on the Fluke 15B + I do not know if some essential function that I will need is missing.Since in terms of build quality and accuracy in the measurements they are perfectly identical for the same price, I would say that the BM257 is cheaper because it has more functions.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 12:30:31 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 06, 2021, 10:47:59 amYes. The Fluke 15B is a very, very basic multimeter. The BM257 is even better than the Fluke 17B.It's not just a list of obvious measurement features. The BM257 will warn you if the probe is in the "amps" socket and you turn the dial to measure volts.This feature will save your expensive fuses from silly mistakes.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2021, 08:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 06, 2021, 12:30:31 pmPerfect thank you very much.Apart from all the other functions, the warning of the probe in the wrong socket is very important for me, the first days I will be very careful I would not want to burn the fuses immediately, all the functions I will learn a little at a time even if I have seen several tutorials in English but there are subtitlesThanks for everything. Greetings to you and everyone.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2022, 08:19:35 pm
content: Hi, a few months ago I bought the Brymen 257s, I noticed an anomalous thing, short-circuiting the leads should immediately go to 0, this does not happen, do you think the multimeter has some problem ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX4Cy5j68Ho&lc=UgyhIyhzV40Q3iIupUF4AaABAg.9Xv1WUGGoTU9Xx4TMxtg53https://youtu.be/wX4Cy5j68Ho

author: mqsaharan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 05:03:52 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on February 02, 2022, 08:19:35 pmThere is no need to worry. Your meter is fine.In the video you linked, the meter is in ACV function. BM257s is TrueRMS meter. It is normal behaviour for such a meter in ACV function. In DCV function, it should go to zero immediately.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 07:12:20 am
content: Also do be aware that for this DMM the AC volts function is only specified for between 5% and 100% of the range. Since this is a 6,000 count DMM, that is 0.3V for the 6V AC range, for example. So switch to the 600mV AC range instead or even the 60mV AC range if appropriate.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 12:47:10 pm
content: Thank you so much for answering me, very kind@mqsaharanHow do I switch from ACV function to DCV function ? I don't read ACV and DVC on the multimeter@JRAgain I did not understand how to switch to the 600mVAC range or the 60mVAC range, do I need to disable the AUTO function and switch to manual mode ?--------------------------------------------------------------EDIT:Ok I understand, I was confused by the acronyms I should go from alternating to direct voltageDCV (Direct Current Voltage) direct voltageACV is the alternating voltage (Alternating Current Voltage, Alternating Current Voltammetry)Measurement of alternating and direct currents)ACA Alternating Current (Ampère)DCA Direct Current (Ampère)(Measurement of alternating and direct voltages)ACV Alternating Current (volts)DCV Direct Current (volts)Yes in direct voltage it goes to zero, but short-circuiting the test leads should also do so in alternating voltage ?

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 03:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on February 03, 2022, 12:47:10 pmEnglish has an inconsistent use of acronyms related to electrical units and quantities. SI standard symbol for electrical voltage is V (IEC standard uses U, which is better to not mix quantity with unit) and electrical current I. Units are volt (V) and ampere (A) (note lowercase letters when units are spelled out). English is also different because it uses the same name both for unit and quantity (volt/voltage). Now there are no good standardized symbols to indicate alternating or direct voltage or current, so I understand why there are various ways to express that. But ACV/ACA/ACI/DCV/DCA/DCI are just plain silly and confusing symbols. Better to use plain units (V and A) and symbols like ~ and ⎓ instead of this mishmash.

author: Niwivan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 04:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: mqsaharan on February 03, 2022, 05:03:52 amI have several multimeters including the BM257S here. Actually it seems strange to me too ... In DCV it is ok and it is always 0, but by orthocircuiting the leads in ACV the BM257s still remains above 0. My other multimeters such as UT61E +, short-circuiting the leads in ACV, the display stops showing values fluctuating and everything becomes 0. They are both two TRUE-RMS multimeters

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 04:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: jukk on February 03, 2022, 03:03:20 pmThanks for the explanations, I agree, in fact at the beginning I did not remember the meaning of the acronyms ACV and DCV, then I always make a lot of confusion. However it remains a mystery, a friend who has other digital multimeters short-circuiting the leads marks zero, they explained to me that there is probably an internal adjustment for compensation.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 05:13:52 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on February 02, 2022, 08:19:35 pmAs others have said, the True RMS takes a while to settle - not to mention it can be also noisy and thus give a reading other than zero even with the probes shorted.I don't have the BM257S, but its little brother BM251S (Greenlee DM200A), which is not a TRMS but averaging and it settles faster due to this. Check the attached video for reference (rename from .zip to .mkv)

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 06:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on February 03, 2022, 04:27:17 pmThe slowness of the display to get to its ultimate low value is called 'settling time'. The minimum number of counts displayed with the leads shorted for a long time is called 'residual counts'. That's all assuming that there aren't fields present causing actual voltages on the shorted leads. It may seem odd and would take a while to explain, but 'better' TRMS meters typically end up having a bit longer settling time and some residual counts. This is just a characteristic of the type of converter used and its bandwidth. It can be annoying and in many cases, users would actually be better off with an average-responding meter than TRMS. However, I can assure you that your meter is not broken and appears to be performing to spec. You shouldn't really compare it that way with other makes and models, especially since some are known to use gimmicks to fake a 0.000V reading any time the true reading is within a certain number of counts of zero.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 07:29:58 pm
content: Quote from: marck120 on February 03, 2022, 12:47:10 pmIn case you didn't find the answer to this already, the mV ranges for AC and DC volts are at the selector position for Temp. Once at that position, you may need to press the Select button multiple times to choose Temp, mV AC or mV DC as desired.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2022, 09:03:05 pm
content: @rsjsouza, @bdunham7Thank you very much for the explanations, now I have repeated the test in AC, I have also seen the video attached. After about ten minutes with the leads in short circuit the value drops to 0000, then it oscillates between 0000 and 0001, if everything is normal I don't worry. My friend @Niwivan has a BM257s identical to mine, he contacted me after he saw my video on youtube, because he too found this "anomaly" if you can call it that.@JRThanks, no I did not find the answer, I have now found the answer thanks to your explanation, mv are the millivolts, to tell the truth I have never used the millivolts measurement, no I know on what occasion I might need it.

author: mqsaharan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 02:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: Niwivan on February 03, 2022, 04:21:52 pmI do not exactly know why some meters like UT61E+ shows 0 quickly and why some other meters like BM257s takes very long to show 0 with shorted probes in ac functions. May be it is because different TRMS ICs have different settling times.No matter the reason, it is a known fact that meters with TRMS converter usually show residual reading with the shorted probes. Some manufacturers mention that fact in their manuals. For example the following paragraph is from Fluke 289 Users Manual:"AC Floor:When the input leads are shorted together in the ac functions, the Meter may display a residual reading up to 200 counts. A 200 countresidual reading will cause only a 20 count change for readings at 2 % of range. Using REL to offset this reading may produce a much largerconstant error in later measurements."

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2022, 04:24:11 pm
content: Quote from: mqsaharan on February 04, 2022, 02:58:54 pmThanks for the information, yes, as you explained to me, maybe each multimeter is calibrated differently, in some multimeters they told me that there is an internal adjustment for compensation. The user @Niwivan has made the return of the multimeter also for other reasons, let's see when the new BM257S arrives if it has the same behavior. However in the end from what I understand it is a false problem, this residual reading does not affect the measurements at all. Sorry REL what function is it ? now it escapes me.

author: Niwivan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 10:44:16 am
content: Quote from: mqsaharan on February 04, 2022, 02:58:54 pmThanks everyone for the answers!. As Mark120 said, I returned my BM257s because it also had bushing "A" badly soldered with a strong misalignment, which made it difficult to insert the probe into the hole.As for the ongoing conversation. I also learned a new thing, which is that some TRMS multimeters takes very long to show perfectly 0, with shorted probes in AC mode.But now I have a question. Do the residual counts on the display negatively affect AC measurements of a few mV? I tried with a loop of wire around a toroidal, and I correctly measured something like 0.7 VAC. But I have no idea about lower measurements ...ThanksIvan

author: mansaxel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 11:25:06 am
content: Quote from: marck120 on November 02, 2021, 09:09:02 pmI own a pair of older Gossen meters, a MetraHit 14 and a MetraHit 25. They are incredibly well built, safe, and high quality. I assume without having seen them in reality that the Gossen Metraline DM61 is going to be at least approaching that. If you buy one, my impression is they'll serve you well. Much more so than Aneng or Uni-T. Brymen might beat them on features, but I'll take dependability over features any day.Why? See, 85% at least of the measurements one makes, in my experience, are measurements that will not challenge your instrument in terms of resolution, range or precision, but you still need to be reasonably certain that they're right; that what you see at first look is a correct measurement. Quality instruments like Fluke and Gossen will give that. (And probably Brymen too, but I have no experience so can't tell.)My experience with even the cheaper instruments from quality manufacturers is that the longevity and quality will be inherited down from the expensive ones. I have what was the cheapest Fluke ever when introduced, a model 10. I've had it for 28 years, and never done anything to it except swapping batteries. It still is dead accurate well within its limits. That is dependability. That is what you want. I trust Gossen will deliver at similar levels.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 12:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: Niwivan on February 05, 2022, 10:44:16 amRead the manual: Most meters only claim accuracy above about 5% or 10% of the AC range.

author: Niwivan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 05, 2022, 12:10:43 pmHi, sorry, I mean if there is a minimum threshold, below which, due to residual counts, the multimeter is no longer accurate in its measurementsthanksP.S In AC, the claim accuracy is 1.0% + 5d

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 02:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: Niwivan on February 05, 2022, 02:07:55 pmYes.Any decent multimeter will quantify the accuracy loss in the manual, eg. the Fluke 87V manual says:Below 3% of range? Time to switch to a lower range!

author: mqsaharan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2022, 06:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: Niwivan on February 05, 2022, 02:07:55 pmYes, there is. But it hard to find unless the manufacturer has mentioned it in the manual/specifications. For example, take a look at the picture that Fungus has posted. Read it thoroughly and you'll find the answer to your question for Fluke 87V.But for Brymen BM257s, you need to ask the manufacturer as it is not mentioned in the manual.Edit: I also think that the error due to the residual counts is part of the reason the manufacturer has mentioned that the accuracy is guaranteed at or above 5% of the range.Quote from: Niwivan on February 05, 2022, 02:07:55 pmYes, it is. But only for 5% to 100% of the range. For readings below 5% it is unknown. And again, you need to ask the manufacturer.

author: marck120
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 06:46:00 pm
content: Hi, I have the multimeter stuck on diode test, do you think it is damaged ?EDIT :Now it has started working again :When it was frozen the display emitted a strange flickering :