Programming AVRs without AVR Studio? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 04:58:16 pm
content: I want to ICSP AVRs (e.g. ATMEGA328P) so I found in a drawer an old AVRISP MKII, upgraded it firmware, installed AVR Studio and was able to read fuses, read theFLASH, etc (haven't tried yet to program, waiting for a cheap board to try on). So far, so good.The problem is that AVR Studio is monstrous and I need only the programming tool.Is there a way to instal only the programming tool? Any other programming tool that works with AVRISP MKII?I have strong preference to GUI over command line. Having a tool that works on Mac OSX is a plus but Windows is also good.Thanks,Z.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 05:16:17 pm
content: avrdude (command line) + gui tool (winblows)

author: filip_cro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 05:40:18 pm
content: AVRDude + Eclipse

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 06:02:14 pm
content: Quote from: madworm on January 07, 2014, 05:16:17 pmAny recomendation for a gui tool?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 06:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: filip_cro on January 07, 2014, 05:40:18 pmDoes eclipse supports AVR development (other than the programming aspects)? Is it stable? Friendly?(I am familiar with Eclipse in general, used it professionaly for Java programming).

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 07:08:35 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 07, 2014, 04:58:16 pmhuh? now you are considering Eclipse? whats wrong with AVRStudio4?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 07:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 07, 2014, 07:08:35 pmI think the one I installed was Avr Studio 6 (?). It was a ~700MB or so, took long time to install (including all kind of Microsoft stuff) and when I open it I get a huge menu, just to select a the programming option that pops ups a modal window with the programming GUI.As for eclipse, it is already installed on my Mac for Java development so adding a plugin should be simple, though I would prefer a stand alone programming gui.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 07:44:55 pm
content: You may want to see if avrisp mk2 is supported by AS5/6.I use code::blocks + avrdudess as a gui to program the chip. Very happy with that set-up.

author: filip_cro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 10:17:29 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 07, 2014, 06:04:03 pmIt's just Eclipse with avr gcc and avrdude.

author: psycho0815
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 12:28:19 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 07, 2014, 07:44:55 pmI second that. You can include custom tools in code::blocks quite easily for one click programming. Or use a makefile ,there a lots of templates on the web.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 04:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 07, 2014, 07:44:55 pmThanks. I managed to run avrdudess on my Mac. Looks nice. Will try to actually connect it to the MKii and program. If it will work, this is what I was looking form.

author: paf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 08:59:54 pm
content: For embedded development on OSX, one can first install Xcode (including the command line utilities) and then MacPorts:http://www.macports.orgMacPorts is a (FreeBSD ports-like) package manager with lots of tools available for download.After that, searching for avr one just needs to do on the command line:port search avrAnd the result is:avarice @2.13_1 (cross)AVR JTAG-ICE control softwareavr-binutils @2.24 (cross, devel)FSF Binutils for avr cross developmentavr-gcc @4.8.2 (cross, devel)The GNU compiler collection for avravr-gdb @7.6.1 (cross)GDB for the AVR processorsavr-libc @1.8.0 (cross)C library for the AVR microcontroller.avrdude @6.0.1 (cross, devel)an Atmel AVR MCU programmersimulavr @1.0.0_2 (emulators, devel)Simulator for Atmel AVR microcontrollersuisp @20050207 (devel)AVR In-System ProgrammerAfter that, to install avrdude (for instance) the command is only:sudo port install avrdudeWarning: some embedded development tools like sdcc and gputils are not in the cross category of MacPorts.After that, you are in command line paradise.If you want something more "Graphical" checkhttp://embedxcode.weebly.com(Embedded development with Xcode as IDE).My best regardspaf

author: Erwin Ried
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 03:07:32 am
content: I use khazama programmerwith an $4 USD avrasp from ebayhttp://khazama.com/project/programmer/

author: abhishekavr
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 04:40:38 pm
content: Use ponyprog.Tad simple !and works like a charm.You might need to configure the ponyprog a bit.You can read more herehttp://microcontrolleravr.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/making-your-own-programmer-board/

author: filip_cro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 04:56:09 pm
content: LOL. At least buy 3$ USBASP.

author: Kappes Buur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2014, 07:14:26 am
content: Use an Arduinohttp://michael.holachek.com/2012/09/avr-programming/There are so many YouTube tutorials on programming AVRs, for example:Dennis Millerfor using Atmel StudioBen Heckfor programming AVRsNEWBIEHACKfor all kind of Arduino related stuffmjlortonfor lots of arduino and other stuff

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2014, 02:40:39 pm
content: Quote2nd that. You could build one for more, of course.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2014, 03:59:30 am
content: Thanks everybody for the information. I found a combination that works for me on Windows:1. Atmel USB drivers extracted from Atmel Studio 6 (AtmelUSB.exe, 14,068kb)2. Libusb-win32-bin-1.2.6.0.zip (adding a filter for ISP MKII)3. setup-AVRDUDESS-2.2.exe (it includes avrdude).Small footprint, clean UI and works smoothly.

author: old gregg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 11:52:32 am
content: same thing for me. I installed AVR studio and I realised how massive I was. The folder in my document is 1.4G !took ages to install as well with all the microsoft softwares. Nightmare. Don't understand why it has to be so huge.By the way, for those you have issue with avrdude and Arduino (the "get_synth 500 error" or something like this). I managed to make it work good, don't know why though.I change the programmer for "arduino" (-c arduino) and the baudrate (-b 115200) and the arduino is back on work with avrdude. Those values were on a webpage .I switched to WinAvr with programmer notepad . I used to wath great newbiehack videos so it should work fine. But now I'm fighting to know how to connect (and make it work) with my new AVRspi MK2 programmer.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 12:16:05 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on January 08, 2014, 04:57:51 pmNice pun, hopefully no one finds it a little sexist...

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 12:21:55 pm
content: The 6.0 and later AS has lots of ARM-related stuff in it. Use 5.x instead.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2014, 12:30:13 pm
content: I've had issues with USBasp semi-bricking AVRsAfter finishing code development using USBasp (100s of flashes on one mcu without issue) i started to assemble and flash more units and 4 out of 25 ATMega165v stopped accepting SPI reprogramming and started running at 1/2 speed after their first ever flash failed.It must have corrupted some undocumented fuse bit or something, since 4mhz RC osc isnt an official option on that mcu, they definitely ran at 4mhz instead of 8mhz afterwards.Corrupt RC osc calibration byte maybe?My problems with the USBasp may have been just a bad unit, but yeah, i don't trust it.A stable software based USB stack on a 8bit mcu maybe pushing things a bit too much.For now i will stick to the LPT programmer method which has always worked perfectly.

author: Phroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2014, 01:20:34 am
content: Quote from: zapta on January 07, 2014, 04:58:16 pmIf you are looking for a Mac toolchain take a look atCrosspack. It's a nice package of avr-gcc, avrdude and tons of other AVR tools.It's command line and Makefiles though, so there would be a bit of a learning curve for you.

author: jadew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2014, 10:42:24 pm
content: I've been getting by just fine with avrdude + notepad++. Having to write your own makefiles has a lot of benefits (first and foremost, you learn more).Now... AVRs are not particularly complex devices so remembering the few include files and the names of a few registers (which you'll know anyway from the datasheet, since that will always be open) is not such a big deal.

author: corrado33
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2014, 04:22:14 am
content: I actually really like AVRSTudio. It's great for beginners and troubleshooting as you can step through your program and see register's change in uh "stepped time?" (This feature has helped me tremendously when I was starting out.) The size doesn't bother me too much, 1.5 Gigs is nothing in today's world of 3 TB hard drives for $100.With that said, if I'm ever on the mac or linux box I just use avrdude. I don't know what else you guys were mentioning, I always thought avrdude was a standalone command line tool but who knows...

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 02:04:44 am
content: Quote from: corrado33 on January 27, 2014, 04:22:14 amAverdudes is a gui frontend for averdude.https://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/02/19/avrdudess-a-gui-for-avrdude/

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 02:38:57 am
content: Studio 6 is bloated. But look on the bright siode, it could be worse... it could be Apple iTunes (bloatware with bonus crapware, idiotic, unintuitive and downright annoying).If you are using GCC and are using an antiquated PC, try 4.81. Works OK for me except annoyances like switching between two projects and the Studio remembers the last hex file, so it is easy to program in the wrong hex file. Other than that it works reasonably well.If you are using a great compiler like CodeVision AVR, it will only integrate properly with the bloated AVR Studio 6.1 or higher.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2014, 11:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 18, 2014, 12:16:05 pmthat was not a pun or typo but 100% accurate. its well known ladies prefer gui and must suffer bloat as a result. dudes use cmd line interface. seriously, more reliable and easier in the long run with batch files dressed up as desktop icons for the kiddies.not to mention 1000 times more efficient in terms of pc resources and speed. literally.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 02:49:49 am
content: Quote from: paulie on February 01, 2014, 11:22:15 pmI don't mind command lines if they come with a good GUI front-end ;-)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 02:05:05 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on February 01, 2014, 11:22:15 pmActually... I use AVRDUDE and I'm not a dude

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 09:40:20 pm
content: wonderful, its always great to see people break free from gender stereotypes. well... maybe does depend on which direction you cross over... like i said cmd line is more productive and less bricked avrs. some leave the gui fold for cmd line but few go back the other way.Quote from: wilfred on February 02, 2014, 04:53:22 amtechnically computation requires heat and heat is the enemy of long life. running gui intensive apps or heavy crunching my fan runs continuously. debug cycling with text editor, winavr, avrasm, and downloading it stops after the first minute and stays off. thankfully i spend 99% of my time in that latter mode. easier on not only the fan but the cpu too.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 09:46:48 pm
content: QuoteYeah, right,

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:20:46 pm
content: sorry mam, but that happens to be true. as teaching assistant and member of two ham clubs ive had the opportunity last couple years to set up nearly 300 individuals for avr programming. before i adopted the cmd line batch file approach bricking chips was pretty much a daily occurrence. now once a week or month is unusual. as far as productivity one can compile or assemble with a single keystroke instead of drawing down menus and clicking yourself to death. there is a reason they are called "shortcut" keys.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:38:56 pm
content: I'm using make, avrdude and avr-gcc:- "make" to compile- "make upload" to flash- "make fuses" to set fusesI don't even have to click anything

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:49:32 pm
content: hi markus, thanks again for your help with that lcr tester.i have a suggestion: instead of "make", "make upload", "make fuses" try 'm', 'u', and 'f' for less wear and tear on those little pinkies. i got another one: except for fuse put "-F" in all the commands. saved me a huge amount of time babysitting students who were confused by dudes overly protective signature check.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 12:06:49 am
content: QuoteI have no doubt that that is true for you.It would be unwise to generalize it to others.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 08:05:36 pm
content: i think its ok to say you dont "like" to do things a certain way or its not to everyones "taste". but an efficiency expert standing there with stop watch and poking through the trash bin might be in a position to do just that.... generalize. it turns out efficiency and waste are quite easy to quantize... just not very popular.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 08:27:38 pm
content: QuoteSure. Presummably that it is well established that:1) this "efficiency expert" is really what he said he is, and2) he has studied enough of the subjects, and3) his conclusion is applied to this group of subjects or like subjects, not some totally different subjects, and...The risk to generalization is that people don't always remember the caveats that made the generalization possible.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 08:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on February 03, 2014, 08:05:36 pmI would bet 10 to 1 that your efficiency expert will use GUI tools like Excel and not command line tools.Just saying... ;-)GUI programs are sometimes useful.(I am a heavy bash + vi + linux user so no bias here)

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2014, 10:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on February 03, 2014, 08:35:49 pmabsolutely. imagine trying to layout a pcb or edit video with cmd line. however imo things like compiling and flashing are best done with a single key rather than playing with mouse and pretty icons. but then i tend to be goal oriented and usually need to get things done asap. when it comes to fun have other outlets. to each his own.

author: scientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 03:52:17 am
content: Quote from: amyk on February 02, 2014, 02:05:05 pmIs avrdude basically just avr-dude? or does "dude" stand for something other than "agent"?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2014, 04:19:02 am
content: Quote from: amyk on February 02, 2014, 02:05:05 pmOr maybe you are ;-)According to wikipedia "the word can encompass all genders".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 04:16:25 pm
content: Quote from: scientist on February 05, 2014, 03:52:17 amAVRDUDE - AVR Downloader/UploaDEr(http://www.nongnu.org/avrdude/)

author: DomesticHacks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 04:26:08 pm
content: I use AVRDUDESS which is in my opinion the best GUI for AVRDUDE:http://blog.zakkemble.co.uk/avrdudess-a-gui-for-avrdude/It's written in .net so it should run under OSX (with mono).

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 05:23:35 pm
content: Quote from: DomesticHacks on February 06, 2014, 04:26:08 pmDid you have success running on OSX? Did not work for me but works very well on Windows 7.BTW, is there a way to persist the programmer selection? I need to select it from a long list each time I start AVRDUDES.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2014, 07:06:09 pm
content: lol... i wont say it.

author: vvanders
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 02:14:13 am
content: Quote from: paulie on February 03, 2014, 10:39:27 pmI'm not really understanding all of the AVRStudio hate here. VS is a very solid and industry standard IDE. I don't spend any time using the pretty icons or mouse(use the shortcuts!). If you enjoy vi text navigation then there's a very well done vi plugin. I spend most of my time at work in vi but given the choice I'd take VisualStudio over Eclipse or command line.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 03:29:33 am
content: Quote from: vvanders on February 07, 2014, 02:14:13 amHate is a strong word. I just want a program to program avrs from hex file but with avr studio I need to install tons of stuff and then rib a over crowded window just to lunch the programmer. That's a clear case of bloatware. Why don't the provide the avrisp mk2 software as a separate program?Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 08:44:40 pm
content: actually they do. last count there were 3 separate utilities which were the foundation upon which these monstrous graphics shells depend. iirc one is called avrisp.exe or similar. it took several hours to locate it buried in as4 and that was with online help. i shudder to think what it would take to dig those out of as6 which is an order of magnitude bigger. oh yeah... no drawback to bloated dev environments.for me avrdude does the trick when forced to work in protected mode but 99% of my programming is done from real mode (dos98) using a turboc utility i wrote years ago.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 09:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on February 07, 2014, 08:44:40 pmDo you remember avrisp.exe was a file on its own after you installed AVR studio?I have a nice Acronis utility that allows to restore disk state to a prior point. If it is a file by itself, I can installed everything again (already did twice), locate the file and restore my disk.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 09:29:03 pm
content: yes, all 3 exe files including avrisp(sp?) worked outside the environment. i have no idea where they are located on your disk. as i said it took me hours to find it on my own hard drive. why are you avoiding the obvious solution, avrdude.exe, which is used by 99.9% of avr programmers and is available from literally hundreds of internet sites?

author: Erwin Ried
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 10:40:50 pm
content: khazama avr programmer kicks avrdudess buttockshttp://khazama.com/project/programmer/

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 10:56:32 pm
content: its shouldnt be hard to kick avrdude butt because there are many things still need fixing and no interest in the creator to do so. ie those totally wacko fuse listings. and many errors in the error messages. however unless kazama has command line capability for reasons of productivity and scripting then im afraid there is no competition for serious programming. and what about the device list? will it do tpi? >128k flash?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2014, 11:01:22 pm
content: -it shouldnt be hard to kick avrdude butt because there are many-the other poster was talking about kicking avrdudess butt, not avrdude butt.avrdude is very different from avrdudess, like apple. Vs. Orange.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 01:11:25 am
content: ah... i didnt read closely. so kazama is just another pretty dress. then maybe more like apple and apple skin.anyway im still waiting for something better than dude to come along or fix the big problems. maybe theres hope... finally after years of waiting latest release does skip ff locations instead of pointlessly wasting several minutes programming a tiny 512 byte bootloader up high.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 12:49:42 pm
content: A few other solutions:1) bootloader: FLIP from Atmel is feasible but not as good. Teensy's bootloader is excellent but only available on Teensy. You have the Arduino stuff too. I think Atmel publishes a few of its own. But I don't think they work on 100% of their chips. And they are not practical on smaller chips.2) Dragon: It has the added benefits of hv programming.3) pickit2: it can be used to program avrs (just some?). Not sure of the limitations.4) write your own: it gets the job done exactly the way you wanted....To me, programming the chip is so trivial that I care little about the programmer / programming software. I guess that's why you see such a lack of interest / progress / bug fixes.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 04:59:26 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 08, 2014, 12:49:42 pmpart of my job as firmware engineer is developing bootloaders. many different types for at least 3 of my clients so im pretty up to speed on what is and is not available out there. so flashing tools are far from trivial for me. little things like that ff issue have a HUGE impact on my productivity to the tune of hundreds of man hours wasted (no exaggeration). so important i was forced to fix the problem myself but so many other bugs in the version i started from it was necessary to maintain two complete sets of exe and conf. one for bootloader work and another that works properly with all the avrs. until recent release that is.as far as pickit2 limitations, cost tops the list. you can literally buy a dozen avrasp which do ALL atmel chips instead of just a few like microchip. very important if you need to supply many clients and entire classrooms. thankfully pic is fading from both the hobby and academic scene.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 07:32:54 pm
content: I tried to program a new atmega328p chip with avrdude + avrdudes but it did not work. It could not even read the signature (got all zeros).I looked at the ISP signals and the clock sclk was about 1Mhz. I read somewhere that virgin AVR chips come factory fused to 1Mhz internal RC clock and that the ISP clock speed can be at most 1/4 of that frequency (that is, no more than 250Khz).Anybody know how to tell avrdudes to reduce the ISP speed? Avrdude has a '-B 4' option but I don't know how to make avrdedes to use it.I have no problem programming chips that already oscillates at 16Mhz.Edit: figured it out. AVRDUDESS has a Bit clock (-B) text field in the main menu. Setting it to 4 does the trick. It's kind of strange that the default setting is incompatible with out of the factory blank chips.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2014, 08:57:45 pm
content: QuoteThis is where I have trouble understanding you. You apparently have the demand for a better programmer; You said you also have the skills to make one yourself.Yet, you insist on using an inferior tool that doesn't fit your needs / stature.Why not just make your own "avrdude" the way you want? It helps your productivity; and it helps the community if others may find your "avrdude" more desirable.Instead, you are wasting your time complaining about someone else not having sufficient interests and urgency to fix a tool for you.Where is the disconnect?

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2014, 08:00:58 am
content: Sheesh. You are talking about hundreds of wasted hours messing around with flaky hobby tools. Man, the business case is obvious to anyone who can put 2 and 2 together. So run, not walk, to the nearest browser and order a proper AVR tool to handle the job for you. ISP Mk2 or 3 comes to mind and case closed. Or are all thos hours free of charge so that there is no matter how many you waste...?

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 03:16:38 am
content: Quote from: Kremmen on February 09, 2014, 08:00:58 amQuote from: dannyf on February 08, 2014, 08:57:45 pmthere does seem to be a problem understanding, maybe language barrier, so i will repeat. i do have my own "dude" and it functions perfectly for all my professional needs. only on the rare occasion when forced to work in windows or other gui os do the real avrdude problems crop up and since that is not often and im aware of the bugs, no problem.and im not looking for another programmer. usbasp is perfect. i have mkII, dragon, a $2000 dataio, and others sitting on the shelf and they dont hold a candle up to it. nothing but problems. as far as mkII i dont know how many times driver and firmware updates were required and probably still dont support tpi. reminds me of microchips programmers. not to mention you can buy a dozen usbasp for the cost of one mkII. so again, no problem.i was merely commenting on some issues gui fanboys might encounter. even if i did publish my utility unlikely anyone would be able to use it. for most real mode cmd line os is like garlic to a vampire. this thread made that clear. anyway its good you are happy with status quo.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 10:33:03 am
content: Oh, sorry, i'm sure. Whatever floats your boat.

author: redben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 10:33:42 am
content: I pesonnaly use X Code on my macintosh with avrdude to get hex file.The I upload hex with a very nice gui called avr tools :http://www.w7ay.net/site/Applications/AVR%20Tools/index.htmlThis app make the fuse set up much more user friendly.Regards,

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 11:00:22 am
content: QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo you spent pages and days rigorously complaining about an issue that a) is actually a non-issue and b) you rarely encounter?What happened to the "HUGE impact" on your productivity, or those "hundreds of man hours wasted (no exaggeration)"?Which side of the story are we supposed to believe?QuoteAbsolutely agree, as long as you exclude issues that it cannot solve.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2014, 11:36:46 pm
content: lol. you are easily confused. i can go into a detailed timeline for last 7 years but lets just say i started out with the same tools you and most others here adore then, finding them inadequate, took matters into my own hands. no regrets because it did nudge me into a higher productivity environment. and only recently did the dude dude wake up and fix that ff bug which was the biggest time sink. now if he would only straighten out the mislabeled fuse messages and also stop calling 1 bits 0 it would be quite a nice tool.issues that usbasp cannot solve? how can you solve "issues" that dont exist. or maybe you refer to non-hardware related.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 12:13:57 am
content: QuoteSure, particularly when your statements are diametrically opposite of each other. While they may be both wrong, they cannot be both correct.All I was trying to understand is how could you have trivial issues that cost you greatly in productivity losses and hundreds of man hours wasted? There can be only one possible explanation here and it doesn't bode well for you.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 12:15:09 am
content: QuoteThey may not exist to you. That doesn't mean that they don't exist at all.All it takes is to know it better.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 12:40:57 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on February 11, 2014, 12:13:57 amyou are making things up danny. i dont think i every said "trivial" issues impacted my productivity.1. one particular NON-trivial problem cost me, by estimation, nearly a thousand hours of wasted time watching avrdude progress bars. mostly loading programs that totaled less than 1/2 kbyte (500 bytes).2. solved by developing tools that did not suffer this NON-trivial problem. also relieved my workload bailing out students and fellow club members.3. years go by and avrdude developers start listening to myriad complaints (not me) and made changes. issues still exist but most of those who are familiar with the tool have workarounds so might be considered cosmetic or trivial. still causes noobs to brick chips so maybe not trivial to some.its hard put it more simply but if you really want to continue this "discussion" i will try.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 12:47:22 am
content: QuoteYou did say that those issues were "no problem" 3x, and that they only impacted you on rare occasions.That sounds very trivial to me.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 03:19:53 am
content: Guysl, this is a useful thread, please don't get it locked.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2014, 08:50:10 pm
content: agreed. silly that a person cannot understand there may be both nontrivial and trivial issues and the latter have little effect on productivity. maybe trolling, maybe personality issues, but i think out of hundreds browsing this thread it was worth repeating if the light bulb went on for a few.