Quality LCR Measurements at 1MHz - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2022, 05:38:36 pm
content: Anticipating some upcoming effort which will require accurate (<0.1%) matching of many L,C & R SMD devices at frequencies up to 1MHz (later maybe up to 2~5MHz), we've been looking at available instruments to help. The required frequency range is beyond our TH2830 and DE-5000, so looking into higher frequency options, one of which is from Hioki.From the limited research we've done, Hioki seems like a well respected OEM. We have a TH2830 from Tonghui which is quite good, but have no experience with Hioki.The one LCR meters that seems to fit our expected needs is the Hioki IM3536, but can't find any independent reviews/teardowns, and can't seem to find many reviews of Hioki in general other than handheld meters.Any folks have any direct hand experience with Hioki LCR meters, or any other options that cover the intended frequency range. Know about using a VNA and such, but prefer to go with a LCR meter or impedance analyzer.Things that are important sort of in priority:CostFrequency 1MHz or greaterAccuracy/RepeatabilityFixturesDC Bias capabilityGraphics capabilitySize/Noise (fan)Best,

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2022, 06:07:46 pm
content: Maybe you can look at a used Hioki 3532 if cost and higher frequency are the first considerations.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2022, 08:38:18 pm
content: Hi,Sourcetronic, where we got ours, offers LCRs up to 10Mhz:https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/

author: profanum429
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 12:11:02 am
content: We have a 2MHz Sinephase USB Impedance Analyzer;https://sinephase.comWe use it for transducer work and it seems to work OK. Downside (or upside depending on the user) is that it is a USB device so you'll need a Windows laptop. You can get a fairly rudimentary API that lets you get the values directly from the device so you can make your own Labview/Python/C++/whatever app to interface to it for custom test setups if you want.Fixtures are a bit basic, but they can supposedly design whatever extra fixtures you might dream up.Just wanted to throw out another option!

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 01:22:43 am
content: Hi,You may want to look at the HP 4275A LCR (Z) meter. It is accurate and easy to use. You would have to find a used one. It covers the range 10kHz to 10MHz in a 1-2-4 sequence.You will need a fixture for SMD parts.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 09:40:42 am
content: I would recommend against the HP 4275A. I used to have it's lower frequency brother and it gets inaccurate real quick once you get outside it's comfort zone. The HP 4275A is also an old clunker likely to have a whole bunch of problems.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 09:58:09 am
content: Had HP 4275A for decades no issuesalso 4277A Z meter.For wideband Z measuring 100 kHz..500 MHz we use HP 4195A network Spectrum Analyzer to 500 MHz with matching 41952 Impedance test set and SMD fixtures.Expect ~$2k on epay plus the test sets and fixturesJon

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 10:55:54 am
content: Rohde and Schwarz just announced their new LCR meter, the LCX, todayhttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/lcr-meters-and-impedance-analyzers/rs-lcx-lcr-meter_63493-1172288.htmlIt goes up to 10 MHz, has excellent specifications, a full set of fixtures, internal and external DC bias, built-in graphics, etc.

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 12:54:13 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on March 15, 2022, 09:58:09 amSame here. 4274A is a bit of a dog especially at low impedances due to low drive current (10mA IIRC). But the 4275A is very good, I still have and use mine.

author: Keith956
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 01:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on March 15, 2022, 09:58:09 amDitto, got both, plus a 4280A for 1MHz C / C-V / C-t of caps down to femtofarads with builtin bias to +/- 100V. Like the HP3458A which is still the gold standard 8.5digit DMM, they were built to last.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2022, 01:56:00 am
content: Thanks to all for responding, we now have a few things to consider.Best,

author: Thundr_Pat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 09:05:46 pm
content: I have been using a Hioki IM3536 LCR and IM3570 Impedance Analyzer recently and have really been liking it so far.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 12:57:47 am
content: Ended up deciding on the IM3536, mainly for the extended frequency range (8MHz). How is the fan noise on your IM3536, ours is quite loud!!All our fixtures for the Tonghui TH2830 we have fit and work with the IM3536, which is nice!!Best,

author: Thundr_Pat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 07, 2022, 08:40:07 pm
content: The fan noise is certainly noticeable. I might have to borrow a dB meter and measure just how loud it is. Ill update with my findings

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2022, 10:27:34 pm
content: Something I've been kind of expecting/hoping to appear is a variant of the NanoVNA firmware that runs VNA "apps." Basically, user-written scripts that run on the device itself. An LCR meter would be a very obvious example but it's not hard to think of others... distance-to-fault measurements, velocity factor and cable length, crystal frequency and Q measurement, an emulated grid-dip meter, amplifier P1dB, that sort of thing.Most test equipment would probably benefit from a more application-driven approach, but it's a no-brainer for VNAs.