Which (old) Logic Analyser? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2014, 08:27:21 am
content: Now that (thanks to the good people of EEVblog) my Agilent MSO7054B is running with its proper memory size, my thoughts are turning to a reasonable logic analyser. But whereas it was fairly easy to make the scope choice, a quick look at all the LA models and their module options gives me brain-fade. Combine that with a quick skim on ebay where I see *wildly* varying prices for what appears to be somewhat similar items, and I realize that I don't even know enough about what is out there to even begin asking the right questions.What I would like is somewhere in the region of 500MSa in timing mode, better than 200MHz in state mode, 70 channels at least, and lots of memory depth. I'm not fussed about portability, so a benchtop cage and a separate PC is ok. The only consideration there is that it costs a lot of money to air freight a boat anchor from the U.S. to Australia, so smaller is better in that regard.And of course, it needs to be relatively ebay-cheap!I've read some (but not all) of TiN's exploits with his 714 and its modules, but it would be good to get a range of opinions if people are willing to share their experiences with other makes/models.I've got a TLA700 Series User Manual from the Tek site, there doesn't appear to be one for the 600 series. If anyone can point me to other good manuals I would appreciate it.Regards,

author: alexjordon27
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2014, 09:04:11 am
content: Hey there,Thanks a lot for sharing this Logic Analyser post. I am really impressed with your post.Thanks and please update some more relevant News on that.Thanks & RegardsAlex

author: Basstudio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2014, 12:23:17 pm
content: I have never used the portable USB types before but I have used the Agilent 16500/16600/16700/16800/16900 mainframes throughout my engineering career, personally I think these are the 'dogs bollocks'. However they are not cheap and not many appear on eBay these days because people don't get rid of them. I am not sure what you consider cheap but the common Agilent logic analysers like the 16500C usually sell between £200-400 here in the UK and a 16702B £600 and upwards BUT this will depend on what measurement modules are installed in the mainframe. The 16800 and 16900 are Agilent's current models and still remain expensive for one that works.I am a bit of a sad logic analyser collector so if you are UK based and depending on your price point I do have a Agilent 16700A, 16700B and a 16702B for sale if you are interested. Price always depends on what measurement modules are installed though.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 05:09:26 am
content: Thanks for the comments, I'll have a look at those models. I have a HP1630D, but with only a 1K sample depth and 10ns timing it's a bit limited. I don't think I've used it for 10 years or more! I'm in Australia, and from past experience getting gear from England is generally even more expensive than from the U.S., so I'll have to reserve judgement on your offer. However, I will definitely keep you in mind. Are any of your units in the ballpark of the performance that I mentioned I would be looking for?Regards,

author: esprits4s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 05:45:19 am
content: What's your budget?16500C or 16700/16702 (a or b) are often available, with cards, for well less than $1K. Prices go up quickly for 16800 or 16900 series. 16700 series are the current sweet spot for features and value in my opinion.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 07:17:00 am
content: I've just been looking at some documents on the 16702 and 16741 which seem to be a possibility for my specs. I see a 16702A plus 1 x 16741A on ebay now for $500 as a buy-it-now price, so maybe that's indicating a m/frame plus two modules for around the $1000 - $1200 landed here in Oz. But I see a dramatic difference in the front panel (at least) between a 16702A and B. It looks like they junked the keyboard from the /A (fair enough, I detest that sort of thing), but is there increased functionality in the /B, or is it simply nicer to use? I haven't yet got to reading about 16742s (I think that was a number I have seen somewhere, maybe has deeper memory???). Ignoring price for the moment, what are your thoughts on that sort of setup? Are there useful benefits in some of the variants ('A', 'B', etc) of the mainframe and the modules? Are probe sets readily available? And what is the software situation - are there any repair hassles if, for example, the disk/controller fail? I would obviously not be buying a new(ish) piece of equipment, but I also wouldn't want to discover that it was made of unobtainium, or that a crash might irrevocably destroy any licenses. As I said in my first post, I don't even know the right questions to ask about recent LA systems, so all input is greatly appreciated.Regards,

author: esprits4s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 01:37:07 pm
content: The B version has a faster processor, more memory (128 to 256MB vs. 64 to 160MB), and larger screen (same resolution though). The 16700B can often be found for much less than then 16702B and offers the same performance if you are okay with using a keyboard, mouse, and external monitor. The B version also comes with a larger hard drive 18GB vs. 4.3GB. Otherwise, they are pretty similar IIRC. I haven't compared them in quite a few years, but I believe the GUI is the same and they can both use the same selection of line cards.

author: esprits4s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 01:40:45 pm
content: The nice thing about these Agilents is that a ton of them were sold and accessories are commonly available on Ebay for reasonable prices. Here in the states, the Agilent series and accessories are a little more common on Ebay than the Tek equivalents. They are huge though... Shipping will cost a pretty penny.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 02:19:57 pm
content: Sailor check out the Pipistrello LX45 with OpenBench Logic Sniffer.64MB, 200 MHz 8 and 16-bit, 100 MHz 32-bit capture. Approx 16 secs capture at 200MHz.Pipistrello LX45http://saanlima.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=515v tolerant IO boardhttp://saanlima.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=55Port of OpenBench Logic Snifferhttp://saanlima.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8I'm considering this setup myself but haven't got around to it yet.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 05:23:16 pm
content: Ignoring your statement that it should be "ebay cheap" and in case you've recently had a lottery win the Agilent e-bay store is doing a deal on their latest logic analysers:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-PREMIUM-USED-Logic-Analyzer-SPECIAL-/181342739240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a38de9b28They claim to give you $40K of memory for free not to mention a $76k main frame for just $9k!They are premium used so you get the original warranty - so sell the car (and the house but not the shed where you have your lab) and get some good kit.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 08:45:47 pm
content: Going a bit older, you might also consider the 16500b, they can be found a little cheaper than the C and, if you get one with a LAN card, have about the same capability (less memory, and require an HP keyboard and mouse, but they can be run remote). Not all of the cards are compatible though, so verify your chosen cards will work in the B if you go that route. I would avoid the A series. If I were looking for an LA now, I'd probably try to find a 16700 as the best compromise on age/priceIf you go for any of the ebay deals, make sure they come with cables, they're expensive and difficult to find separately, but do not add that much to the purchase price when bundled. I picked up a 16500b with the LAN option, 3 100MHz state cards, cables and a DSO card for $350 US + shipping.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2014, 10:39:33 pm
content: IMHO a TLA700 series mainframe is a better buy. It runs plain Windows and the software can be downloaded from Tektronix. Besides that the acquisition modules and probes can be found cheap on Ebay every now and then. I do advice to buy a complete set (mainframe, modules and probes) to get started.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 10:01:14 am
content: Thanks everyone for your inputs. I've been digging up all the datasheets, manuals etc for the Agilent and Tektronix systems, and then trying to rationalize one against the other. There seem to be roughly similar prices for similar systems on ebay, if you ignore the **absolutely ridiculous** prices that some sellers put on their goods! While the Agilent systems seem to have a lot more documentation available, I have to say that the Windows 2000 base of the Tektronix sits a lot more happily with me. I still run W2k on a couple of my older systems, and I have a pretty good handle on getting into the guts of things if I have to. Plus TiN's hack of the TLA7AAx module looks useful..., so I'm leaning the Tek way right now. Of course, when you see a nice unit for $300, then read on to discover that shipping is $1700, well,If anyone has reasonably extensive experience with comparable Agilent and Tektronix systems, it would be good hear their opinions.Regards,

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 01:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: Sailor on April 27, 2014, 10:01:14 amIt seems to me that your primary problem is the shipping cost, US to Australia. Which I can make a useful suggestion about.I bought a Tektronix TLA 721 mainframe, with control module, no other modules.It was listed US $629.95, seller kindly dropped to US $375 when I asked nicely. ALWAYS ask, even if there is no 'make an offer' on the listing. Especially with high volume sellers. They often just want to move it.Then I had it shipped to Oz via a reshipper in the US.http://www.shipito.comWho I can't recommend enough!I'd been using them for a while by then, so knew the drill. They're very good, and obtain a huge discount from the international freight companies due to the large volume they ship. But I'd suggest you try a few lower value items via them before you do a big expensive item.Anyway, the shipping costs were:About US $90 to ship UPS ground from the seller (I forget the state) to the reshipper in CA.Box was 71 lbs, 67 x 67 x 67 cmFreight quotes were:$470 via TNT$341 via fedex economy.I chose Fedex, but that was a BIG mistake, that I won't make again. I'd rather have paid the extra $130, to not get screwed around by Fedex. It was the first time I'd seen them quote less than TNT, who are invariably excellent.Anyway, it did get here undamaged. Best of all, one reason the seller dropped the price was he didn't know the Win2000 logon password. It turned out to be nothing, just press enter!(It took me a while before I thought of trying that, ha ha.)Modules, probes and original manuals are easy. There are always lots of choices, and sometimes some very cheap ones.Shipito have a freight cost estimator on their home page, so you can work out roughly what things will cost to bring to Oz, before you buy. Which means you can put the extra cash into the quality of equipment. (Or in my case, just be able to afford something at all.)

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 01:56:15 pm
content: Hey, that's good info TerraHertz.I have been kicking myself because I remembered reading a post in the last few days in which someone (probably you!) had talked of using a reshipper, but I didn't make a note of who it was.Interesting words of yours 'I bought a Tektronix TLA 721 mainframe, with control module'. Does that mean that something advertised as a 721 mainframe might not have a controller in it? I've been trying to figure out exactly what is in things like the 711 and 721, and what the real difference is between them, etc, etc. And from that, to exactly how the windows system communicates with the sampling modules. And so on...Regards,

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 04:38:57 pm
content: Silly question, but why do you need something so large and fast?Worth considering something very much older? I find the most valuable thing in a LA for me is the range of disassemblers, 8085, 6801, 68000 etc etc but I am messing around with that era hardware. My most used LA is a Tek 318, all 16 channels and 10MHz! But it works straight away, no remembering all the menus, attaching 50 probes etc.Define the problems the LA has to solve. I still prefer a scope, before prodding a signal you think, what am I expecting to see? With just one to three signals you can do that, not possible with 50 channels, the problem is buried in all the signal traces.Just my thoughts.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 09:50:24 pm
content: I agree that having a lot of channels isn't so important nowadays. I use 16 channels at most. A professional logic analyser has deep memory and software tools to deal with large amounts of data. The Tektronix software for example allows to search through the data looking for specific patterns.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2014, 11:37:25 pm
content: I guess it's a case of 'horses for courses', woodchips. I have done a lot of work over the years with my HP1630D, but as I noted earlier, it hasn't been in use for a long time, mainly because it's just not fast enough. It has 100MHz timing, but only 25MHz state, and most of the ARM chips these these days are capable of running 'way faster than that. Although I agree that I can't see me ever needing a system with more than 68 channels, and rarely even that.QuoteYes, and I too have spent a lot of my life working just like that. It works if you're chasing a solid or frequent fault, but when the fault is very intermittent I find that method can get frustrating fast (slowly!). In those cases it's nice to be able catch a broad range of signals. Plus the deep memory of modern modules, and the complex triggering possibilities, all help to make life easier. My 1630D has got just 1024 points of data!Regards,

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2014, 02:18:55 am
content: Quote from: Sailor on April 27, 2014, 01:56:15 pmWhen embarking on a project, creating a folder for it and keeping notes in a text file of things like reference URLs, can't be beat.QuoteYes it does. Try doing searches for the model number, and note what you see in pics. The TLA 721 is just an empty frame. It needs a control module, that occupies 3 slots at the left. This is a custom PC, that runs the system.Other things to be aware of:* The controller module has no ethernet port built in. You'll need a plugin 'type 2/type 3 PC Card' to provide network connectivity. Mine came with an Intel 10/100 adapter card and the cable.* The power cord is special. Uses a 'high temp' IEC connector. You can buy them, but best if included in purchase.* Make sure you see the thing booted and working. The module's hard disk is in a removable cartridge.* Best to get a mainframe that includes some slot blanking panels. No one seems to ever list the blanking panels alone on ebay, and I don't like your chances of getting them from Tektronix for any reasonable price. It was just pure luck that the one I bought had 3, since at the time I didn't realize that was an issue.QuoteSince Tektronix has become one of those bastard companies that removes online information about their older products, the best way to find details on their equipment is to obtain old Tektronix catalogs. Ebay has many, but mostly older ones. For the TLA series you want Tek test, measurement and monitoring product catalog, for years 2001 through 2004 or later. They do turn up. To really see how the TLA system evolved, best to get a series of the catalogs. Because don't expect Tektronix to ever publish a neat table of model numbers, module compatibilities and software versions.Also the TLA series software manuals contain chapters detailing the hardware and module compatibilities for that particular software version. So once again, it helps to have several.

author: esprits4s
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2014, 02:31:01 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on April 28, 2014, 02:18:55 amI've never looked, but this is surprising since Tek is pretty good about having info on their older oscilloscopes available at tek.com. Another plus for HP/Agilent then because they have tons of documentation on their out of production logic analyzers available for download.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2014, 09:09:32 am
content: All good words. I've probably spent 20 hours or more this weekend scouring the net for TLA docs. Once you get past the first half-a-dozen or so easy ones, it's like pulling teeth. Asesprits4ssays, it's a vastly different proposition to the Agilent situation.QuoteCertainly not like the attached Agilent file.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2014, 09:22:52 am
content: The only problem is that the search engine on Tektronix' website isn't very good. However all the information and software is there! It just takes more effort to find it.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2014, 10:22:10 am
content: Also there is option to get TLA7016 if one really want to deal with bulky monitor-less frame.TLA7016 is just a network module, which can be installed into almost any standalone frame, like TLA720, TLA721, TLA7XM (extension unit).I saw before network unit for TLA7016 on bay sold for 300$USD, while TLA7XM or 720 can be bought for 300-400USD. With shipping it may get around 1K total,but as a pros you will have latest generation frame as of today, which supports all new modules. And I saw TLA7XM with network module sold as TLA7016, with all app's running.But anyway usually anything better than 7AA4 costs a fortune, and not much people here need that fast or serdes-capable LAFrom what I saw on spec-wise Agilent units are not as fast as Tek's.I was able to use my 7AA4 to capture 400-533MHz DDR bus (was using mainly to mux it out to TDS7704B, but still was able to get meaningful data on TLA App), which iskind'a over guaranteed spec for 7AA4. And it can go faster if use state mode. But big cons is the software, it's bulky and buggy, so be patient, when you use it, sometimes it's trickyDon't know about Agilent's, never saw their LA's in person.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2014, 11:30:03 am
content: That's not a bad idea, TiN. Is there a particular number for that network module? Or is it simply called a 7016 network module?I've been looking at heaps of TLA720/721 and a couple of tla714 on the web. It seems that many of them are missing their hard drive. Old IDE drives and standard Windows OS are easy enough, but are there special drivers required? Then what about the Tek application s/w? And are there license numbers, IDs, etc required. Is all of that do-able, or is it *essential* to get a unit with a working drive and the Tek s/w?Along the same lines, if I was to follow TiN's idea and get a mainframe and network card (whatever it may be), the same question arises about the application s/w, lic, ID, etc. How does one handle that?

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2014, 11:36:48 am
content: @TerraHertzI've had a good read of the Shipito.com site, and it certainly sounds good. I threw some numbers into their calculator and the figures they came up with are quite attractive, especially when the dimensions/weight get beyond the normal postal limits. I'll give them a try when I finally settle on a LA.Thank you.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2014, 04:54:44 pm
content: No need anything special, just usual MSDN Windows. Drivers are embedded in Tektronix Application setup, so they will be installed automatically (it's PCI Bridge driver from what I recall).I had bad harddrive in my TLA, so just installed fresh one and setup everything from scratch.Key for modules options is stored in module vxWorks NVRAM/ROM, independently of OS/x86 side.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2014, 05:25:32 pm
content: I wouldn't go for a large mainframe. Too much noise.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2014, 11:25:09 pm
content: TiN, thanks for that. In your TLA7AA4 hacks thread I see talk about firmware revisions; is that the vxWorks code in the MC68360 that you mention?Besides the firmware files, there must also be an app for installing them in modules - or is that just a part of a single monolithic Tek app for the analyzer? As you can see, I'm still trying to get my head around the 'big-picture' of exactly what goes into a TLA7xx and what makes it run. I can (just) imagine those firmware updates being on the Tek web site, but what about the main app, and any other utility/support apps? Surely they don't come for free from the Tek site? Do they?!?Quote from: nctnico on April 28, 2014, 09:22:52 amI've spent a lot of time on that site, and found non-intuative ways of accessing some of the old material, but so far none of the 'hard-core' firmware and apps codeIf you tell me that it's there, I'll just keep pushing buttons until I do find itEdit: I've found the Ver 4.4 and d/l it. I haven't unpacked it yet, but I gather that the module firmware(s) will be found in a seperate folder of that package.The Tek search/download function is completely nuts!Quote from: nctnico on April 29, 2014, 05:25:32 pmI hear you (or perhaps not, I'm going deaf in my old age!), I too hate screaming fans. But even the portables like the TLA714 have half-a-dozen fans on the side...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 01:45:12 am
content: The scumbag $no...reserve on eBay, or something like that, sold me a broken one with a screwy hard drive, and once that was fixed, a bad acquisition card (TLA704). When you turned it on, the whole room would start whirring.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 07:39:10 am
content: Quote from: Sailor on April 29, 2014, 11:36:48 amYou're welcome. But like I said, don't do a big TLA as the first thing you run through Shipito. There are a few things you need to get the hang of first. For one, they have a 'max expenditure per month' limit, that is quite small to begin with (a few hundred $) and only goes up as you establish your identity with them. Ultimately you have to complete and snail mail a US government form to them, with assorted forms of ID, before you become '100% known' and get the maximum spend limit. It seems like something they're forced to do by government regulation, not something that benefits them.Since 'spend' includes International freight, if you try doing a big transport first thing you could end up getting the package stuck at their warehouse. Unable to be shipped because you're not allowed to pay for it... Catch-22.And that is going to cost you, especially if it's oversize.This never happened to me, but it did delay some purchases I wanted to make, till the whole ID thing was sorted out.Another small trap - Really big boxes can be oversize for your 'mailbox' at some of their warehouses. Check that before you choose which warehouse to send a purchase to. If an item is oversize it incurs a small daily charge. But even if you've paid the shipping bill, the box won't be shipped if there is an outstanding fee. Ha ha.. the fee bills around their midnight.You can set it up to auto-pay from your deposit with them. But if you forget to do that, the box gets wedged - you pay the fee, but next day there's another, so it still doesn't ship. It's only a couple of dollars, but I did once have a large box stuck a couple of days till I worked that one out.Fortunately their help support people are very good, and you can actually have conversations with real helpful humans. Unlike ebay.As for choosing which warehouse to use... You get several 'mailing addresses', one at each warehouse. You set your ebay/paypal shipping address to whichever one you want. You can change it back and forth for individual purchases. Very useful, especially when buying from ebay sellers who don't want to sell overseas. You just don't tell them you are not actually in the USA. Your address looks like you are.Downside is that for some of the addresses like in California, you'll get charged local sales tax by the seller if you use a CA warehouse. For this you can use other ones, such as Nevada. BUT! It's not such a simple equation, since all airfreight goes through LA International, and if you have something ground shipped to Nevada, then you are going to pay a higher airfreight bill due to the extra hop and handling by whatever airfreight company you choose.On top of all that, if you do a lot of packages through a single Shipito site, you end up getting an extra bulk discount from them. So there's a 'lost advantage' from chopping and changing.It can be a headache working through the different options, if you're trying to save the last possible percentage point on costs.These days I just run everything through the Hawthorne CA site, since I'm mostly consolidating multiple very small purchases like manuals to single parcel shipping to Oz.The Hawthorne CA site is about one mile from LA International. From Hawthorne to my door in Sydney, TNT really does do it in 2 to 3 days. For prices that are usually cheaper than everyone else's quotes on Shipito's system. It's amazing.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2014, 12:48:39 pm
content: Solid Gold, mateLots of little gems in there...QuoteIf I change my Paypal shipping address, will this take care of the following sort of caveat on some seller's site?'We will only ship to the address of the buyer's PayPal account.'

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 02:53:28 am
content: P6810 probes to go with TLA7Axx modules appear to be very hard to come by. Are there other probes that are suitable for that module?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 03:52:06 am
content: Quote from: Sailor on April 30, 2014, 12:48:39 pmEbay and Paypal are now one company, with unified billing.In ebay, via your login name --> Account settings --> Addresses --> primary shipping addressYou can set up several addresses, and select which one of them is current. It applies to both ebay and paypal, and changes become effective immediately. Best to double check you have it set right before paying for an item, because if you have it wrong you're in for a world of pain.When you pay for an item, your current shipping address is passed to the seller. And no, they are NOT going to ship it to some other address you give them later. So get it right.Typically these addresses in ebay/paypal are supposed to include a phone number. But Shipito does not want to be answering phones, and there's no phone number associated with your shipito addresses. The simplest way around this is to enter (888) 888-8888. It's accepted by ebay's system.Another thing to watch out for is forgetting to set your ebay address back afterwards to whatever you want your default address to be.QuoteYou know that's a differential data probe, with LA connector that doesn't fit the cheaper TLA7M/N/etc modules?But it can be used with single ended data, via the right end leadset.For single ended data, and cheaper TLA7M/N/etc modules, P6418 & P6417. The difference between these is physical; the 6417 is more robust and can have individual channel wires replaced.The TLA721 and other mainframes are nice in that you can get modules with high bandwidth and memory depth. But do you want to start with the top end modules? There are much cheaper modules and probes to start with.Also the target board interconnects are easier with the lower bandwidth ones.Plus, wouldn't you want to be testing the mainframe initially with the lowest cost module you can find?There are lots of probe types, some with only minor differences, others major. Like the P6860 for TLA7Axx modules, which has direct PCB pressure contact.I don't know why there seem to be no P6810 listed at the moment. Chance?Ha ha ha! How's this for most absurd ebay pricing? Item 140744382608. A P6810 probe, for US $5,795.00! And there's not even a pic of the complete probe, so it _could_ be just a single line spare part kit.Maybe a typo, and they meant $57.95? Offer them $40.If it's a complete probe.It really is best to get some old Tek catalogs.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 06:55:08 am
content: Thanks for confirming the Paypal bit - the (888) number is a handy tip also.The reason I asked about the P6810 probes is because that was the only probe listed for the TLA7Axx in the Tek 'Logic Analyzers - Detailed Product Information' (page 34) document that I was reading (dated 2002). The P6817/18 are only listed for those TLA7M/N/etc modules. Because some of the systems I am looking at have TLA7Axx modules with them, and as I *really* like the memory depth on them, I figured that I should look for the right probes.Yes, I saw that listing too... and if you keep looking long enough for TLA7Axx, you'll find some listed at $15,000 and more - one was $29,000!I've also looked at several TLA715 portables. As they can have external k/b, mouse, and monitors (up to 1600 x 1200), that is essentially where I would be at with something like a TLA720. Are there any particular drawbacks to a '715? I don't see the limited slots as a problem for me..Regards

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2014, 03:52:26 pm
content: P6860 probes are more common. Some come with a Mictor adapter but it isn't hard to make an adapter to 2.54mm headers.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 12:57:12 am
content: Do you have any feel for the longevity of the elastomer pad on the probe? Tek specify (not unreasonably) a storage method that protects them when not in use. I would be pretty sure that ebay probes will just be stored in a bin with a dozen similar bits and pieces, so they may not work so well when you receive them. Any idea of how much replacement pads cost?

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 04:05:13 am
content: 715 is same as 714, just better CPU/memory. If unit is controlled remotely it does not make difference. Usability of LA running standalonewith it's small screen and slow UI is pretty crappy, so only option for me is to have TLA App running on my speedy workstation, so basicallyTLA is like an bulky dongle for PC. 2 modules limitation in portables can backfire if you plan to work on big parallel buses or memory interfaces,for example DDR. NEX DIMM full-width interpose requires four 7Ax/Bx modules for complete capture, for example. But if your focus just common debug,then there is no difference on either portable or remotely controlled mainframe.QuoteAs of probes - you got it there, probes are where all the money sits in LA business. P6860 are common multichannel ones for 7AA/AB/AC/Bx modules, support bothsingle-ended and differential, while much more expensive P6810 is more for every day work. All these probes are active, they have a buffer closeto tip. I even opened up one channel to take photos, and posted it somewhere here sometime ago. If you want I can post photos of gear I have for TLA.Cheapest way probably get P6860 (probably end up around 150-200$ if have patience), 6860 to mictor adapter (cost pretty penny too, I paid 100 for mine),and then mictor to 2.54mm or whatever you like (this you can build youself, nothing special or buy common mictor breakout dongles). This will get you34 channels or 17 differentials (but there some limitations on 6860 to mictor adapter), which can be really fast. I had no issues with 100MHz signals in such setup.If you want have everything nice then you can hunt for P6810, but I guess it would not be cheaper than 500-1000$, used. And leadsets are around 50$ each too..http://www.tek.com/support/faqs/general-purpose-probing-why-would-i-choose-p6810-over-p6960-optional-general-purpose-leOr if you in DIY, you can get some cheaper low popularity probes, and modify them for your specific needs, but performance will be worse than above.Or can design something likehttp://www.movingpixel.com/main.pl?SQUIRE.html,but buying mating connector for TLA mezzanine might be not easy.As for elastomer, don't know if it's long-life but both of my P6860 probes work just fine without any service. Got them off ebay of course.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 09:27:32 am
content: Thanks for posting TiN, I remembered that you had a 714. From what I know, there isn't any LAN port on the 714/5, but I am aware of a thread here where you have been talking about remote control of your system., I'll look it up, but what is the interface that you are using? USB, PC Card, ...?I'm pretty sure that I will be getting a 715. It has a TLA7aa2, and some (2 or 3 ??) P6810s and some other odds and ends. I'm sorting it out with the seller.There are some cheap P6860s at the moment, and I'd thought of making my own transition board - gold pads on each side and then just run a lead to a socket for 0.5mm / 0.025sq pins. I could easily tag a few such boards onto some layouts that I'm doing at the moment. I remember seeing that pod that you opened, do you think it would be practical to attach the flying leads directly into the pod?Regards,

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2014, 10:25:54 am
content: PCMCIA Lan.If you getting 715 with aa2 and 6810 probes it's really nice deal. Probes alone cost more than anything else.You probably will never need 6860's if you have 6810.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2014, 03:02:16 am
content: Well, I bought 4 of them anyway. $30 each was a good price, I thought.

author: Sailor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2014, 12:00:08 am
content: My TLA715 is still several weeks away, but I am trying to prepare for it. I have an Intel MBLA3456 (PCMCIA LAN card) coming, and a couple of second-hand Hitachi Travelstars (for alternate OS tests, etc).I believe my unit has only one 256MB SODIMM installed, and I will get another to boost it to 512MB - actually I would get two (identical) modules. But I'm also wondering if the board will actually make use of larger modules e.g. 2 x 512MB, so my question is:Has anyone tried installing larger memory modules (larger than those in the old Tek spec sheets) into a 714 or 715? i.e. maybe Tek designed in all the trackwork, but only spec'd the currently-available memory sizes.Regards,OK, just answered my own question. The 815E chipset (used with the Pentium III in the TLA715) can only handle 512MB. It wasn't until the Celeron and later that gigabyte memory was possible. (sigh...) it's hard to remember using such primitive machines...