The new tinySA "Ultra+"  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 09:20:17 am
content: I got this yesterday. Apparently it's the successor to "Ultra"Comes in 2 variants: ZS406 and ZS407. The former goes up to 5.3GHZ (as the Ultra) and the latter goes to 7.3GHZ.Here's the official comparison page:https://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=TinySA4.ComparisonThe 4 main differences are:1. Bigger battery (5000mAh)2. Normal mode up to 900 vs 800MHZ3. On the ZS407 version: Ultra mode up to 7.3 vs 5.3GHZ4. Better phase noiseI haven't had time to test it properly (especially on the phase noise improvements)Physically, the device is identical to "Ultra" (30g heavier, due to the bigger battery) and uses the same firmware as Ultra.Price for the 5.3GHZ version (ZS406) is the same as Ultra.HW version is "V0.5.4" while my Ultra is "V0.4.5.1"Let me know if you need specific comparisons between the two (I have the regular Ultra and also the Ultra+ ZS407)

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2025, 09:34:26 am
content: Early teardown pictures: I can only see minor changes on the PCB without opening the RF shields (there are some components removed/added)Obviously the battery is the biggest visible change.Pictured: tinySA Ultra, and tinySA Ultra+ ZS407

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 04:39:36 pm
content: Still testing and comparing the Ultra+ to Ultra.One difference I missed, is the display: the LCD on Ultra+ is new (new connector, new part number, and even different colors! Colors are warmer on Ultra+. Also, a dot matrix is visible. Not sure what it is: touchscreen grid?)

author: W4PJB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2025, 12:38:08 am
content: I love mine. It's obviously somewhat limited compared to a bench instrument, but it's certainly easier to carry than an 8566I also like the idea of having a $139 S/A to plug "questionable" loads into, before I plug it into something MUCH more expensive and difficult to repair.One thing I do wish for is the menu to be full-screen (like the frequency entry keypad), and not a tiny little bar on the side. It would be SO much easier to operate if the menu items were closer to thumb-sized, not to mention easier to read. I don't like using the included guitar pick or scrolling up/down the menu with the 3 way switch on the top. But those are minor gripes. Considering what it can do, it's an amazing instrument.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2025, 09:51:07 am
content: Same here. It even has the potential to sell upgraded versions and features (e.g. I'd buy one with a bigger display)At this price point (and even higher), there's no competition.In my lab, I always use either a SignalHound or a benchtop SA, but when travelling, I usually take the tinySA.

author: silly sausage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 10:50:01 pm
content: What size screen are they,is is like the nanovna ie 2.8" and 4 inch?.

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 11:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: silly sausage on January 20, 2025, 10:50:01 pmYes. Why don't you read more athttps://tinysa.org/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage?

author: LM21
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2025, 11:06:35 pm
content: How close to a carrier you can see? It would be nice to see AM or FM modulation side bands of a 1kHz tone. Besides, schools could use these spectrum analyser in teaching radio basics.

author: unicornio
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 02:16:58 am
content: really tinysa and nanovna are the gamechangers of pedagogy and the democratization of radio technology!...I am very impressed by the great precision and usefulness of both toys...

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 11:24:20 am
content: Quote from: LM21 on January 20, 2025, 11:06:35 pmThe resolution bandwidth and video bandwidth are sufficiently narrow that you can conduct 2 tone tests on SSB transmitters with one, although the span needs to be quite narrow as the sweep speed becomes very slow at narrow bandwidths (the same with an ordinary SA).For the money they are an incredible instrument. The only downside is the user interface, but if you want to spend upwards of 10 times the price for a "professional" hand held instrument, go aheadSJ

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 12:02:12 pm
content: Quote from: LM21 on January 20, 2025, 11:06:35 pmYes

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 12:18:37 pm
content: Just for comparison, same signal, same setup, on a professional spectrum analzyer (>20x the cost)

author: tchicago
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 09:43:03 pm
content: Quote from: mehdi on January 22, 2025, 12:18:37 pmThe noise floor is 10dB better. Which is not that much a big deal at this dynamic range. But this is at 1GHz frequency.Could you please repeat the same comparison test around 5GHz?

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2025, 10:12:43 pm
content: Quote from: tchicago on January 22, 2025, 09:43:03 pmHere's 2 screenshots, one from tinySA Ultra+, and one from Signal Hound BB60D.Settings:Center freq: 5GHZSpan: 10KHZRBW: 200HZ (minimum for tinySA Ultra)RF Signal generator: Signal Hound VSG60ASignal: AM modulated (1KHZ), -20dBmSweep time for BB60D: 45msSweep time for tinySA Ultra: 20 seconds

author: aimc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 03:13:46 pm
content: Mehdi, could you please show us the noise floor from 0-12GHz (open input) on the new Ultra+? I am just wondering because on my older Ultra it goes up to only -40dBm. I understand that the second half of the spectrum after 6GHz is just using harmonic mixing. May not be relevant in most application cases but I am also interested to see how bumpy the noise floor generally is...ThanksLutz

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 07:40:21 pm
content: Quote from: aimc on January 24, 2025, 03:13:46 pmSure. Here is a comparison between the original Ultra and the Ultra+ ZS-407.It's better to connect the input to a 50 ohm load, rather than keeping it open (which would pick up strong signals)Here's the settings I used on both Ultra and Ultra+ :RBW: 100KHZ (the lower the RBW, the better the noise floor, but also sweep would be very slow)Attenuation: 0LNA (pre-amp) : ONSpan: 100KHZ - 12GHZScan time with the above settings was almost 100 seconds.Keep in mind that some settings (like RBW and LNA) impact the noise floor.Let me know if you'd like to see more tests/comparisons.

author: rteodor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 08:59:29 pm
content: If your sig gen can hold a stable signal let's say at 500MHz and 2GHz and see what is the drift of the marker (in frequency and amplitude) from the cold start to lets say 30 or 60 minutes of running.It would be nice to see the effect of outdoor winter temperature too if its not too much to ask.

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2025, 10:50:18 pm
content: Quote from: rteodor on January 24, 2025, 08:59:29 pmI need to find some time to do this, but for now did one: a 30-minute test from cold start in room temperature (22C).Used Signal Hound VSG60A signal generator using an external ultra low phase noise OCXO as reference.Signal: CW 2GHZ -20dBmtinySA settings: RBW 200Hz, span 10Khz, Center freq: 2GHZUsed a tracking marker set to search for peak.Here is the readings:TimeMarker frequencyAmplitudeCold start1.999999GHZ-22.1dBm5 Minutes1.999999GHZ-22.3dBm10 Minutes1.999999GHZ-22.3dBm15 Minutes1.999999GHZ-22.3dBm20 Minutes1.999999GHZ-23.2dBm25 Minutes1.999999GHZ-23.1dBm30 Minutes1.999999GHZ-23.6dBmAt the end, I also measured the output of the signal generator, using a power meter, to compare against the last reading from tinySA:1.9999998MHZ , -21.5dBm

author: rteodor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2025, 04:52:45 am
content: I was thinking more of taking max hold captures at the beginning and at the end to make it more simple but thanks for extra measurements. Its nice to know that is so stable in frequency and not bad either in amplitude.

author: markus_jlrb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2025, 11:49:32 am
content: HI TinySA experts,I'm observed an issue comparing the Ultra+ (ZS-407, V0.5.4) vers the old ULTRA (HW V0.4.5.1.1).I purchased two devices of both HW Versions, so my tests were run on four devices.The ULTRA+ device shows independent of used FW Ver. -193- and -196- and independent of remotecontrol or direct screen operation the attached spectrum (center 500MHz, span 10kHz, RBW 1kHz)The Input is terminated with 50Ohm.Any ideas what is the reason for the spectral shoulder located to the center frequency?Thanks in advanceMarkus

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2025, 12:01:49 pm
content: Marcus, are you aware that a dedicated TinySA group exists? There are a lot of active users including the designer.https://groups.io/g/tinysaSJ

author: markus_jlrb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2025, 12:25:25 pm
content: @SJ,thanks to point me to the groups.io link.BTW I now try the old FW Ver. -175- and thespectrum is now flat as expected.Could by a FW issue and not a HW one asI thought.Was not able to find any issue comments ingithub for the -196- FW version.To complete my observation I attached the-175- FW spectra for the ULTRA+ that nowlooks ok.Sorry for raising this issue at these thread.I will direct my questions as recommendedby you in the groups.io forum.Markus

author: YU2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 05:00:02 pm
content: Hi,Is it possible to observe 5 g WIFI signal and possibly 5g cellphone ?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 08:39:24 pm
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 09, 2025, 05:00:02 pmWhat is a 5G wifi signal?For the phone, yes. You need to figure out which band your country uses. You need an antenna that works at that frequency reasonably well, and place it in close proximity.Notice that the antenna needs to be close, because it's even difficult to measure these things even with the right equipment...

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 12:03:14 am
content: SNR? SFDR? 3rd or intercept?j

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 09:15:05 am
content: Quote from: mehdi on January 18, 2025, 04:39:36 pmThere is some tiny and nice SMPS PSU in the background what is model?

author: mehdi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2025, 09:47:08 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on August 10, 2025, 09:15:05 amMatsusada R4K

author: Vovk_Z
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 10:11:49 am
content: Quote from: YU2 on August 09, 2025, 05:00:02 pmYes. I guess if you want just observe then its own simple telescopic antenna may work somehow too at these high frequencies. Of cause it is not very good at 5 GHz but your probable WIFI observing distances are several meters.