careful trusting your supply chains too much, fraud @ NASA - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 01:39:39 am
content: https://science.slashdot.org/story/19/05/01/1352235/nasa-says-metals-fraud-caused-700-million-satellite-failureThat's some sad shit, ripping off NASA.as the first slashdot response says, stunningly reminiscent of 'the china syndrome'.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 02:12:09 am
content: No surprises here. It's a US supplier too, nothing to do with China.If something is mission critical it's mandatory that you do your own testing and not rely on certifications. After all, your supplier is not an insurance company and should a part fail they can not be liable for all collateral damage. In general no supplier will sign a contract that holds them liable for collateral damage because it is possibly unbounded.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 02:59:23 am
content: Easy there .....QuoteHere is what the reference to China means:Quotere:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Syndrome

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 03:04:30 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on May 02, 2019, 01:39:39 amRipping off the government, or religious organizations, or ? Does it make any difference?And I always wondered... what does China have to do with the China Syndrome?

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 03:09:07 am
content: It is a figure of speech, made famous by the 1979 film of the same name.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 03:12:45 am
content: What does Manchuria have to do with the Manchurian Candidate? They are just references to works of literature.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 03:13:04 am
content: Quote from: windsmurf on May 02, 2019, 03:04:30 amIf the uranium melts and forms a large, critical mass on the floor of the reactor hall it will "melt a hole all the way to china".In practice it hits the water table and then things go bad...

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 04:34:11 am
content: its a classic movie.in the movie there is a fabrication company that makes some kind of subassembly used in the nuclear reactor and they falsify x-ray welds inspection, this leads to increased vibration of a pump that causes some kind of systemic failure (I think it trashes a level switch and confuses technicians too) ( i want to say the cracks in the welds decrease their stiffness or something)It's called the china syndrome because of the reference to melting through to the other side of the earth, and I want to say the reactor in that movie was of unusually large size.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 04:37:44 am
content: Quote from: windsmurf on May 02, 2019, 03:04:30 amits nasa of all things. it ruined a scientific satellite

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 05:26:11 am
content: Reedin is overratedQuote

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 02:24:36 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on May 02, 2019, 03:13:04 amThings are bad enough before it gets that far and if it does, and water is hardly the worst thing it could hit. In practice large parts of what it melts gets incorporated formingcoriumuntil the surface area is large enough and the reactivity is low enough for it to solidify.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 03:22:04 pm
content: So this phenomenon is no longer exclusive toJapan?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 08:09:38 pm
content: In house QC is so important. Even if they had not tested it internally, in hindsight they could have looked at the x-rays and noticed they were all the same. No one thinks these kind of lapses in quality will happen though.Quote

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 10:44:40 pm
content: you should watch the movie, its kind of explained that management is shady. Riveting movie.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 10:52:33 pm
content: Usually, the welds are tagged with lead letters and digits that show up on the xray film. There is no mistaking substituted films but it is possible for the QA department to not notice that the same film shows up over and over.https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/x--ray-lead-letters.htmlThere is usually a source inspector witnessing the welds and the xray process. "China Syndrome" was a good movie but I wouldn't try to derive 'facts' from it.

author: extide
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 10:56:54 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on May 02, 2019, 04:37:44 amTwo, actually.It appears the company in question got off pretty easily IMHO, they cost NASA $700M in the failures but were only fined $46M and I think one low level guy went to jail. Top brass needs to be put in prison for quite some time and fines need to be much higher!

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 05:14:10 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on May 03, 2019, 03:54:24 amIf anybody wants to read the paper referenced in the video, it is here :https://www.eba-d.com/assets/AIAA-2003-4436-Separation-Joint-Tech.pdf

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 05:35:48 am
content: This has been going on for decades. Why is this news?Because a satellite was affected this time?Even us hobbyists concern ourselves with getting genuine parts.And the chances of counterfeit parts coming from anywhere but China seems vanishingly low.It doesn't seem logical to lay all the blame on the vendors.They get counterfeits slipped into their supply chain beyond their control or detection.Have we forgotten the FTDI debacle already?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTDI#Driver_controversy

author: harnon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 11:21:46 am
content: Or as we've had recently in Melbourne, fireproof cladding on highrise towers which... isn't.

author: windsmurf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:36:35 am
content: Quote from: harnon on May 03, 2019, 11:21:46 amIf there's any policy in China I like, its this. We should adopt it.https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-white-collar-criminals-death-sentence-2013-7

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 08:00:22 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 02, 2019, 08:09:38 pmWhen I was a teenager, avid to see naked ladies, I was told "when you've seen one you've seen them all". I soon found out it was not true at all.A gynecologist in Chile has been giving the same ultrasound print to his patients since 2011. One of them saw the ultrasound of a pregnant friend in Facebook and was surprised to see the same ultrasound. The doctor is now being sued.https://www.20minutos.es/gonzoo/noticia/medico-engana-embarazadas-misma-ecografia-3622501/0/So, it seems some people subscribe to the notion that "when you've seen one you've seen them all".