Fume Extractor advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: furnacemike
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 10:32:42 pm
content: I'm currently looking at 2 fume extractors on Amazon and I'm torn. My basic use is soldering and desoldering. I do a lot of desoldering to salvage components, which can include vacuum gun, hot air, and hot plate. Hot plate desoldering of power boards can be especially bad, since it can produce an especially noxious acrid smoke (you probably know exactly what I mean). I live in an apartment and do not currently have a dedicated workspace, so I am looking for something desktop and portable. This also means venting to outside can be problematic. The specs on both units are similar:BAOSHISHAN Fume Extractor Soldering 3 Stage Filters Desktop Smoke Absorberhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P1T4WV5/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1WF5PLAB10LN6&psc=1KOTTO Strong Suction Hose Fume Smoke Absorber for Soldering, Electric Iron Welding, 3d Printing Extractor Absorber Remover DIY Extractor Carbon or HEPA Filterhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZHH5H7N/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hzaBoth feature a combination HEPA/Carbon filter (though the KOTTO it is optional), and both use 40W fans. I've read the reviews and watched YouTube reviews on the KOTTO (non are to be found on the BAOSHISHAN), and the seem pretty favorable. The BAOSHISAN also features a "pre-filter". The BAOSHISAN is quite a bit more money than the KOTTO, though I am not deterred by that outright. Both feature flexible hoses with a snorkel head.Overall, the BAOSHISAN seems to be a better quality build. The only hang up I have is the price of the filters. The filters for the BAOSHISAN are very expensive.So my questions are:Anyone have any experience with these units? Any thoughts?Is the pre-filter really worth it?Is it worth the extra expense in filters to go with the BAOSHISAN?Thanks!Mike, New Jersey, USA.

author: --Oz--
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2022, 01:18:33 am
content: IMO neither are worth it.I use a 12v brushless fan (120mm or 5") scavenged from a dead pc power supply, then run it at 6 to 10v (from a $2 dcdc buck converter). Here is the kicker, the fume extractors that have a funnel feeding the tube (shroud that feeds the fan) is killing the sucking (working area) distance, its like they have no clue what they are doing, then charge $80 or more. With my simple and free fan I can easily get 8~12" distance of fume extraction and the fan is on low, this also is low noise. Need more distance, just turn it up a little. If you want you can add the charcoal filters to the front for a couple bucks. Also, after some hot air rework I set my board behind the fan to cool down quicker if I am in a hurry.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2022, 09:26:28 pm
content: Quote from: --Oz-- on August 21, 2022, 01:18:33 am"Charcoal filters" for a couple of dollars are going to be worse than the ones the OP linked, and close to useless.Get proper branded HEPA filters (Levoit, Honeywell, etc.), which will be <$30 if you keep an eye out on amazon.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2022, 09:39:59 pm
content: Let me check what I have. I am a retired chemist and over the years saved a lot lot of stuff from the dumpster. Since you are in the USA, I may have something of interest, but it is 42 miles away at my second home. Nothing has any ducting. They are just fans in boxes. If interested, let me know. Cost is actual shipping cost.

author: Keri Szafir
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 03:58:03 pm
content: I just use a centrifugal fan, no filters whatsoever. It's there for drawing fumes away from my face and mixing them with the surrounding air, reducing the concentration to safe levels.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 04:45:17 pm
content: Quote from: Keri Szafir on August 23, 2022, 03:58:03 pmIf you're simply looking to disperse the fumes away from your face, a small quiet axial fan blowing sideways across your work area is very effective. You can get away with a lot less fan noise.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 10:47:15 pm
content: Quote from: furnacemike on July 02, 2022, 10:32:42 pmHave you considered venting out the window or into the bathroom with the exhaust fan running?

author: tinfever
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 10:06:54 pm
content: Clearly you need a three stage overhead air filtration system.MERV 11 prefilter > 12" Activated Carbon Filter > 24" x 24" 12" HEPA filterDon't ask how long it took me to build or how much it cost. I don't want to think about it.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 10:31:40 pm
content: loloverkill taken to a new level.Next project for you is to convert the whole room into a laminar flow hood.

author: tinfever
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2022, 10:40:17 pm
content: There ain't no kill like overkill!Next project might actually be to add an ERV (energy recovery ventilator) to get some outside air circulation without too much energy loss. No amount of air filtration will take care of high CO2 levels and I've decided to draw the line at an algae CO2 scrubber system.

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2023, 11:02:11 pm
content: hieverything is ok with this filter except gas stage filter you will never adsorb most harmfull soldering flux fumes by standalone activated carbon filter for this need to mix activated alumina impregnated by kmn04 with activated carbon then you get reall chemicall filter comparable to high-end soldering fume extractors , it is enough to mix 5kg of activated alumina with 1,2kg can filters activated carbon (lite version) to get excellent result for small air-flow 200m3/h - 300m3/h , activated alumina with kmn04 isnt cheap but at last whole cost for 5kg activated alumina + 1,2kg can-lite carbon + M5 prefilter + F8 prefilter + hepa h13 filter will cost you just half price of bofa or weller replacement filters and you propably get more better result with it , ive designed many soldering fume extractors in past and i getting stucked with gas stage filters still having a hope i create very big carbon filter (over 15kg of coconut activated carbon loadded to 4 cartridges and... ive never gets even 1/2 of gas adsorbtion result of formaldehyde and rest of flux stuff , activated carbon filter alone is complete waiste of money , activated alumina with kmn04 is also used in 3d printer fume extractors

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 04:41:30 am
content: Could you give any links to purchase that activated alumina with kmn04 thing?I could use it while printing ABS

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 05:59:53 am
content: I've been using the KOTTO one for several years and, for soldering, it actually works surprisingly well.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 06:55:26 am
content: I have the Kotto, I bought it a few years ago. It's a bit noisy on the higher speeds but aside from that it works very well. You do have to screw the hose in pretty hard to get it all to stay together though. Keeps the smoke out of your face and really makes a big difference in the smell, it has an activated charcoal filter in it. I'd buy it again.

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 08:37:04 am
content: Quote from: tatel on January 16, 2023, 04:41:30 amwell you have few options there , can buy directly from camfil activated alumina with kmn04 - 8% 20kg bag (this is best and cheaper option by buying directly from manufacture company) , other option you may try activated alumina made from china but it usually have less effectivity than camfil or purafil just 4 - 6% of kmn04 but from my experiments 5kg load of 6% is enough for small ariflow another thing you may to consider - when alumina is mixed with pelletised carbon you would propably inhale chemicall smell outgoing from filter itself (this is usually happend in air cleaners like IQAIR HEALTHPRO) - some people notice dirty chemicall odour outgoing from filters itself , solution for this is to mix activated alumina with high quality granulated carbon (not pelletised) like for example can-lite activated carbon 50% to 50% of alumina will give you result 5kg of alumina with 1,2kg of can carbon

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 08:41:30 am
content: Quote from: tatel on January 16, 2023, 04:41:30 amABS and soldering flux fumes - have very small gas size counted in molecular weight while odours have large , activated carbon is mainly effective against large gas particles thats why for smallest you need activated alumina + kmn04 impregnation which doubling its efficiency , for example you will maybe achieve same filtering result 5kg of activated alumina kmn04 8% < > over 50kg of activated carbon itself thats why small ammount of activated alumina is added to high end soldering/printing fume extractors

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 09:43:07 am
content: That would be the link?https://www.camfil.com/pl-pl/produkty/filtracja-molekularna/media-adsorpcyjne/activated-aluminaIt doesn't seem like they are selling bags of raw materialProbably I'll be getting filters for respiratory equipement...

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 09:59:18 am
content: Quote from: tatel on January 16, 2023, 09:43:07 amthey selling can sell 20kg bag of activated alumina kmn04 8% it called campure 8ill include part of my invoice there

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 10:01:10 am
content: Quote from: tatel on January 16, 2023, 09:43:07 amcampure 8 will cost you around of 10 euro per 1kg so is cheaper than chinese alumina available in small quantities and more effective becoz it has 8% of kmn04 impregnation but however you must pay at last for 20kg bag

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 10:12:17 am
content: Quote from: tatel on January 16, 2023, 09:43:07 amalso depending all for your needs , for 3d printer fumes is enough to mix alumina 4% with activated carbon , but for soldering fumes better is to use 8% there is also 12% alumina but it is very expensiff and used only in this shit commerciall soldering fume extractors (12% is used there where you want to have very small filter and achieve similiar efficiency to larger filter) so for example you will need 2,5kg of activated alumina 12% to get similiar result to 5kg of 8% alumina

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 10:37:37 am
content: Thank you very much for this information

author: joeyjoejoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 05:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: lfldp on January 16, 2023, 08:41:30 amWould the Hakko FA-430 qualify as a high end extractor?I have been venting outside, but I get lazy in setting this up for quick soldering jobs. Ignoring the price, my concern is1. How effective is FA-4302. If effective, will the charcoal degrade over time without use, and to what degree.Hobby use only so I won't use it a lot, so buying a really expensive replacement charcoal layer often is not really a great use of funds.

author: EE4all
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 05:55:59 pm
content: I made a setup using a "Tjernlund M-6 Inline Duct Booster Fan," along with appropriate hoses, splitter, reducers, and open cone ends. The exhaust goes through a wall bulkhead I installed out the attic to a soffit vent. It's a bit wasteful of inside HVAC air sure, but it's nice for any accidental magic smoke releases, that I can turn it up to high and clear it out quickly.

author: joeyjoejoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 05:57:09 pm
content: That's my current setup, but via a window, so open/close and put the panel in as needed. I have found myself not doing that, notably when it is colder then -20 outside.

author: tinfever
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 07:47:35 pm
content: Quote from: lfldp on January 15, 2023, 11:02:11 pmThat's very interesting. You mention never reaching 1/2 gas adsorption using activated carbon. Is that assuming a single pass through the filter? With enough passes, such as for a whole room air filter where the air would recirculate through the filter, would the adsorption increase significantly enough?I'd also be interested to know more about the makeup of soldering smoke. I assume we have the particulate matter and various gasses. The particulate matter I think would be taken care of by a HEPA filter, leaving just the gasses like formaldehyde it sounds like?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 09:44:26 pm
content: Quote from: joeyjoejoe on May 26, 2023, 05:43:06 pmIts not so necessary unless you are dealing with a lot of fumes (solvents, melting plastic, etc.). The main HEPA filtration is where the value is for soldering.That said, you can probably drop by a pet store and pick up a good amount of activated carbon for $20, worth it to me. It doesn't degrade over time, but it does get used up as chemicals/etc get trapped inside the carbon.https://smartairfilters.com/learn/smart-air-knowledge-base/how-know-change-carbon-filter/Seems like FA-430 stock has no carbon, as they sell this special filter:https://hakkousa.com/999-245-carbon-odor-filter.html

author: joeyjoejoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 09:54:33 pm
content: Wow, great find. In that case the Weller "Zero Smog" TL would be a much better value. Has an H13 filter and carbon filter for more or less the same price.https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2148697.pdf

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2023, 10:38:19 pm
content: I would still choose whatever you think is the better product, 10% carbon on a ~4kg filter is 400g which is less than $20 worth of material.The weller has a remote switch which is nice, although slightly lower claimed flow rate. Noise levels hard to tell as they don't give full spec, just "<50dB". Hakko filters seem to be cheaper.I was wrong about the Hakko as you can see a tiny bit of carbon foam on the bottom of this one:https://www.tequipment.net/Hakko/A1586/Fume-Extraction/Again, this is like $2 worth of material (breakdown), it won't be magic.

author: mastershake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2023, 03:58:05 am
content: i use ones that look like this unit (they sell them under a number of brand names)https://www.vevor.com/plasma-cutter-c_10061/vevor-filter-fume-extractor-pure-air-fume-extractor-150w-with-3-stage-filters-p_010418357277

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2023, 04:53:44 am
content: Still need to finally settle on a design for this but activated Carbon filtration is a bit of a must and it isn't that expensive. As to venting it to outside then that is another whole level of hassle IMO unless you are in a production or heavy use environment. This on is just a case of drop it on the bench near your work and plug it into 12V (in this case).The Carbon filter just sits behind the front perimeter frame for easy swap out. Just checked the video and this is running around 6V on a 12V 3W fan

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2023, 05:17:17 am
content: I found a second hand 2 port floor mounted air extractor system intended for a laser cutter and repurposed that.The advantage of having something really powerful is you can have the inlet further away from your work area and it will still pull fumes away from your face. Even when soldering close up.I have a flexible rubber input tube zip-tied to the underside of the microscope at the back.Works really well as I can move the microscope around as needed and the tube follows it.The 2nd port i've not used yet and is sealed up, but i'll probably run it to the 3D printer when i can be bothered.I also like the fact it has a filter so i'm not just pumping solder fumes around the room i'm actually removing them.

author: joeyjoejoe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2023, 01:11:45 pm
content: Quote from: mastershake on May 27, 2023, 03:58:05 amIs the on/off function digital? I am wondering if I can control it remotely with a smart outlet. If it's digital, which it looks like, probably not.My other concern with the typical import-grade units is the specifications. Is it actually HEPA, and what is the actual amount of carbon in this case. Also, are replacement filters available now, and will they be available in 5-10 years?

author: knotlogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2023, 08:56:58 am
content: Quote from: furnacemike on July 02, 2022, 10:32:42 pmSo I recently bought a unit off AliExpress that looks like that BAOSHISHAN, and the suction is.... not great.It works I suppose, just that I need to be careful about how I position the hose relative to the fume source.The build quality was a little questionable, but nothing that couldn't be fixed. It comes with a laptop brick style AC-DC power adapter which puts out 12V to a barrel jack. On the unit itself there's a matching port for the barrel jack, and a sticker near it that says 'Input voltage: 230V'.Needless to say, I didn't trust the suspiciously light AC-DC brick either. Not a problem since I have a good quality one lying around. Only the DC socket on the unit doesn't actually seem to match any industry standard size. Well, I wanted to open it up anyway to check what's inside... (Which is a 12V 1A fan... good to know it's all low voltage DC in there.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2023, 09:45:22 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 27, 2023, 04:53:44 amIf you just use the fan to move air away from you, thats fine. But the foam style carbon filter alone is near useless. You want HEPA, that is the priority here.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2023, 01:32:14 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 29, 2023, 09:45:22 pmYou need to understand what 'HEPA' is and is not. It is a term without specification when it comes to anything out of China for a start so because it has a badge on it like the "China Tick" doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean there isn't country specifications but apart from any major brand of filter you are guessing.Activated Carbon on the other hand is much better at filtering out organics, solvents, gases/smoke etc than HEPA will ever be. Non woven (NOT FOAM) Carbon like I have used (5mm uncompressed) is typically down to 2-3 microns (generally they use '5' as a number but is a tortured path for the air) while proper Hepa gets you sub 1 but will load up quickly on the surface with Rosin in particular.Best solution would be a layered approach so Carbon to take out the nasties and a Hepa sub micron layer in behind it. Easy to do and that housing has room for a second simple layer so Laser cutting it and or the Non woven is easy to play I guess.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2023, 10:43:16 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 30, 2023, 01:32:14 amI'm referring to certified HEPA filters (H13, H14), ones that have to pass actual standards for air filtration quality:https://www.air-quality-eng.com/air-cleaners/hepa-filters/The 5mm woven activated carbon has no filtering performance or spec that it has to meet at all. Its not magically going to be better at filtering smoke, while still having next to no restriction to a low static pressure PC fan. The better a filter is, generally, the more restriction it creates.Better off using granular/pelletized (as recommended above), if you want effective solvent filtration:https://www.teqoya.com/activated-carbon-filter-a-few-basic-facts-to-sort-out-the-truth/https://www.consumeranalysis.com/guides/air-purifiers/carbon-air-filter/You can use a hydroponic grow filter for $40 if VOC/odor is a concern, not sure of the exact carbon weight but its probably a decent value:https://www.vivosun.com/vivosun-4-inch-air-carbon-filter-odor-control-p68320123310966090-v58820960379611906

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 am
content: Except we are NOT trying to filter dust out here. An 'absolute' micron rating means squat to anything gaseous but it does however matter to 'dust and airborne particles'.VOC's on the other hand like we get from Soldering or in heavier use cases like chemical production or use environments (Labs, Spray painting etc) then Activated Carbon is what is used and not any 'Hepa' anything as a stand alone solution.Random Googling but it lays it out without a commercial bias fairly wellhttps://molekule.com/blogs/all/best-air-purifier-for-volatile-organic-compounds-vocs#Can-HEPA-filters-remove-VOCsLow static pressure fans are fine and even desirable here as more time for the Carbon to do the absorption thing, it only has to get the airflow thing done not suck the room into a wormhole.

author: Georgy.Moshkin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 02:46:59 pm
content: false sense of safety is what should be avoided here. I am familiar with affordable devices for measuring pm2.5, tvoc and formaldehydes, but haven't seen anything that may be useful in this case. you've probably already used some kind of ventilation, so keep it to be safe, maybe even upgrading it with powerful inline fan, and a second one for fresh air intake from outdoors. Moreover, people often forget about protecting their skin. Hands, neck and face skin should be protected from all those microsprayed splashes and droplets of solder and flux. I use an old long sleeve shirt, thin gloves, full face transparent cover (you can find it as face protection used for cooking/frying), 3m carbon face mask under this cover for anything escaped exhaust fan and sneaked under face cover

author: tinfever
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 04:27:21 pm
content: When soldering, I absolutely see my PM2.5 measurement go up so I definitely think you'd want to filter the particulate matter from the smoke somehow. I'd guess the particulate matter is probably a higher priority than VOCs, since the particles are getting inhaled and presumably getting stuck in your lungs (I'm not a doctor though so what do I know) and the VOCs are just going to cause issues with exposure over a longer period of time? Like I think formaldehyde long term exposure increases cancer risk or something?I'm sure somewhere there is research on the actual contents of soldering smoke and fumes. That would probably be helpful to know if debating about filtering methods.It's true that trying to filter everything perfectly is probably a fool's errand, because you really do need to have outside air exchange somehow, if only to keep the room CO2 levels from breathing down.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2023, 09:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 amThis thread is about soldering and de-soldering, where the prime concern issmoke particles, not "heavier chemical production use environments".Low static pressure fans are not desirable under any circumstance. You want high static pressure, to be able to use as fine a filter as possible, while maintaining high flow rates.Or in the case of VOCs, pass through more total weight of carbon granules (so you don't need toconstantly change the filterand circulate the air multiple times).I bought into this carbon filter for soldering bullshit too originally. But its not science backed at all. Its deceptive and harmful to peoples health that think that all they need is a 5mm sheet of carbon and she'll be good (Hakko, Metcal, and others are still marketing this, call them out if you see it)."Activated carbon filters in the form of foams, used with the simpler type of cleaner, had negligible filtration efficiency against either particulates or vapours and would, therefore, offer no protection against any hazardous component of the fume. The granular carbon filter in the tip-extraction system was an effective vapour filter."https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/42/8/511/148079https://www.isiaq.org/docs/papers/940.pdf

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2023, 11:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Georgy.Moshkin on June 01, 2023, 02:46:59 pmI don't think safety is a major concern for typical hobbyist soldering. We're not talking production work with a room full of wave soldering machines or rows of people soldering, it's not painting with nasty organic solvent vapors. All you really need is something to keep the smoke out of your face, people soldered for decades with no protection at all, which does not prove that it's safe, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that it is particularly bad for you either.

author: Georgy.Moshkin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2023, 02:35:25 pm
content: agree on hobby. With many desoldering I'd be more cautious. Smells can become really bad during heatup, especially when extracting components from burnt PCBs

author: OriginalDan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2023, 07:08:30 am
content: gonna throw my 2cents in here since i went down this road recently, i found it was best to exhaust out a window and it can be done fairly cheaplyyour local home improvement store may sell inline fan kits in various sizes from 100mm or 4" and larger in the kitchen/shower diy sections should have various parts to customize this to your setupthe kits don't usually have an 'Inline Backdraft Damper' so id get one and have it at the window mount to stop backdrafts so you can still solder during the winter,how you mount it to the window will be dependant on your window type, my house is from the 1950s and has those old school spring pull up windows so i got some wood, drilled a hole for the fan and the force from the window holds it firmly in place.with hindsight i would've changed a few things with my setup as originally i bought a "Micron FUME Extractor Desk Swing Arm T1297" and thought running a tube from that to the window would be enough, in reality the fan was aweful and pushed bugger all air and i got a lot of backdraft so i had to rethink and ended up modding my setup with the inline fan which works way better and i wouldn't even need the micron fan except it already came with a 100mm duct mount on the back and the spring arm helps push/pull it toward or away from your workspace as neededif i was to redo that part id used loc-line tubing or something like the exhuast with a hood on the aliexpress image9 below instead of the micron fan, the only issue being the largest size is 75mm so either you could get a 75mm inline fan and tubing for a more compact setup, or adapt 100mm to 75mm as 100mm inline fans are more common.try to go with a mixflow inline fan as they should push more airflow than some cheaper ones, locally the cheapest inline fan was an axial type at 119 m3/hr noise of 40dB another i found on ebay was a mixflow and had two speed modes of 145m3/hr or 187m3/hr at 34dbA or quieter at lower speed and was only $20aud more than the cheaper axial typeEdit: another option for those not wanting to exhaust out a window and want a simpler setup, get a decent quality true HEPA air purifier and plonk it close to your soldering, personally i got an Arovec AV-P152PRO which has 250m3/hr on max, and was under $200aud on sale. at max fan speed it soaks up the fumes easily, the only downside of this method aside from being a bit bulky on the desk depending on the model you get, is you'll need to replace the air filters overtime which costs whereas a nice exhaust setup you don't need to worry about replacing filters

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2023, 12:11:07 pm
content: I recommend taking action to eliminate or mitigate the issue of fumes in the hobby soldering world as soon as you are doing any sort of mass production. eg Where you will be sitting at a desk for an hour or so making 10,50,200 of something.

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:18:03 pm
content: Quote from: joeyjoejoe on May 26, 2023, 05:43:06 pmi heard about this fume extractor use just crap activated carbon and dont remove formaldehyde fumes like others such as weller/bofa and chinese soldering fume extractors

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: tinfever on May 26, 2023, 07:47:35 pmtoday is very bad day i did some experiments again with gas filtering by using camfil activated alumina 8% and even if i loadded around of 10kg of activated alumina i never reaching same filtration result by comparing to 1,5kg activated carbon (whatever is this) cartridge - where is the pit-hole ?! this must be very effective and specialised activated carbon or chemical media and i am sure now similiar or even more effective media is used in bofa/weller gas cartridges the one in bofa/weller is for sure impregnated with kmn04 but its efficiency must be even 50 times higher than activated alumina 8% from camfili think this camfil campure8 can be effective to use only in 3d printer fume extractors DIYi waiste alot of money for these experiments in last years and yes - with activated carbon you will never reach even 10% of formaldehyde gas removal even with alumina 8% you will need it alot much more than 10kg loaded to the filter- with enough passes before it will pass few times over the filter you will inhale yourself 90% of this gas

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:28:42 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 26, 2023, 10:38:19 pmthe kg no really matter the matter is media filtration material it can have just 1,5kg of this media and can be 100 times more effective than 50kg of activated carbon against most irritant fumes generated while soldering - read my other posts

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 31, 2023, 10:43:16 pmyou will never achieve same gas filtration results on carbons like that - the commerciall competitors uses speciallised impregnated carbons or activated alumina for chemisorbtion - the chemiosrbent you need to filter and remove whorst harmfull and smallest gas particles generated trought soldering and via 3d printing - any of these carbons from yours link would never adsorb all of this particles even if you load 50kg tape with this carbon for small gas particles (whorst one) you need chemical media filter not standard carbon filter instead - even if you load 200kg of carbon maybe it will works but you will contaminate it more faster than 1,5kg weller/bofa chemical media filter and you pay 30 - 50 times higher price for this carbon which you loaded to the filters than paying for 1,5kg bofa/weller media instead - now you understand where is main problem ?

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 amyou will never ever clean air from soldering fumes by using activated carbon even coconut activated carbon unless you load 200kg of this carbon to yours filter 200kg of carbon vs 1,5kg chemical media maybe will works same - chemical media specialised impregnated activated carbon or mixed with activated alumina impregnated with kmn04 chemical agent this is what you need to clean air from 3d printer gas fumes or soldering fumes because they generate alot of smalles gas particles the activated carbon can catch just few % of these fumes it can be used for filtering air but not if you wanna filter formaldehydes and similiar particles man

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 08:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 amread my other posts from this forum and you should understand all ill repeat there something in short - activated carbon cant catch smalles gas particles itself because its pores not match to angstrom diametres so if you wanna catch gas from soldering fumes small workplace you will need maybe 200kg ammount of activated carbon to catch all these fumes , now what is implemented in high end fume extractors is called the chemicall media they use activated alumina balls impregnated with kmn04 chemicall agent mixed with usuall activated carbon or they use speciallised activated carbon impregnated with kmn04 now about how it works - the smallest gas particles from soldering fumes or 3d printering hitting kmn04 oxidizer and this kmn04 potassium-permagnate by its chemicall properties convert all small particles to largest one after they going larger they sit on activated carbon and being easily absorbed ! thats why this commerciall filters are very small and can absorb all of chemicall fumes without loading 200kg of activated carbon this technique is used in high-end commerciall soldering and house fume extractors also 3d printer filters and what is more whorse they are more effective than 10kg of activated alumina mixed with activated carbon for example campure 8% from camfil because i tryin this i buyed camfil media and i never getting better result than even chinese fume extractors does - in china soldering fume extractors they dont use kmn04 they use some kind of industrial coconut activated carbon instead with very high activity

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2023, 09:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 amthe fumes generated while soldering and 3d printing are very small under 10A angstrom for example formaldehyde has under 4A size activated carbon cannot catch gas particles below 10A only potassium-permagnate can convert this particles to larger one also you can use molecular sieves with size 4A to filter formaldehydes with activated carbon you will maybe catch few % of gas fumes with formaldehyde included problem is about all these irritant gas particles are smaller than odours particles thats why filters for soldering and for formaldehyde removal are very expensiff because gas filtration media cost big money to manufacture - not hepa no no the hepa is just almost uselless addon in this filters

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2023, 09:29:19 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on June 01, 2023, 01:18:23 ampotassium-permagnate in this filters oxidize all smaller gas particles (angstrom diametres) to larger one when dirt air is reaching this filter after that these particles going tru activated carbon from filter and they all easy absorbed by carbon because they are large after chemicall reaction (large like odours and vocs)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: lfldp on October 21, 2023, 08:28:42 pmNot sure what your point is. I was comparing two units with activated carbon, the one with more carbon weight will inevitably last longer.You can't buy cheap commercial activated alumina systems that I am aware of. Yes it might be worth DIYing your own.But your claim of 100 times more effective needs a citation. It can be better at some chemicals and worse at others. For formaldehyde its not really significant.https://www.cwejournal.org/vol6no1/adsorption-of-formaldehyde-on-treated-activated-carbon-and-activated-alumina

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:06:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmin air filters there is one rule - if filter bed isnt enough effective to absorb or chemisorb all needed chemicals then it cant and shouldnt be used because it will going contaminate too fast and refilling costs would exceed costs of second proper filter with correct bedyou have 100 grains of activated carbon and 100 grains of alumina - the 100 grains of alumina will have capacity to chemisorb 10 grams of formaldehydethe 100 grains of activated carbon would have at last capacity to absorb 0,00001 grams of formaldehyde , the alumina 1kg cost around of 10 euro and 1kg of activated carbon cost 5 euro - where is problem ? the problem is about activated carbon is designed to catch mainly largest particles of gas fumes while impregnated alumina is designed to catch most harder to absorb smallest gas particlesnow if you pay 50 euro for 10kg of activated carbon and 100 euro for 10kg of alumina to use for chemisorb/absorb soldering fumes you will pay allways for activated alumina cheaper - why ? because activated alumina will LAST longer than activated carbon ! so in one year if you use alumina you could pay 1000 euro with its refilling but for activated carbon you will pay much more - 5000 euro (this is just example) you pay more for activated carbon because it is not designed for smalles gas particles and you allways contaminate it by these particles faster than activated alumina - now you understand such difference and why commerciall soldering filters uses activated alumina/custom impregnated carbons ? so now if you understand lets explain few other important facts:at last the 1,5kg of filter bed in solder fume extractor should absorb/chemisorb fumes from small soldering workplace these include spare fluxes - they can create no more than few grams of smallest gas particles during soldering and this filter should absorb/chemisorb 90 - 95% of these particles ! the 1,5kg of standard activated carbon would not absorb you more than 10% of these particles unless you load 150kg of this carbon but you will pay 10 or even 20 times more than specialised alumina for this bed ! so this is not unprofitable to implement and usenow i explain more creep details:i did make alot of experiments with activated alumina potassium permagnate 8% vs bofa v250 and vs chinese solder fume extractor called knokoo 150w fes150 and heres the result:diy filter loaded with 10kg of activated alumina mixed with 5kg of activated carbon vs bofa v250 vs chinese fume extractor with just 1,5kg of custom commerciall bed (carbon/alumina) and heres the resultthe 1,5kg bofa v250 and chinese fume extractor also 1,5kg of custom filter absorb much more smallest gas particles than my custom diy filter !!! - so where is the point ?!the point is in bofa and chinese filters custom very-high effective activated carbon/alumina ! it is enough of 1,5kg load to suck most harmfull gas particles but unfortunatelly 10kg of activated alumina with 8% potassium permagnate from CAMFIL isnt enough - they have also 12% for sale but bofa filter bed alumina+carbon and chinese industrial coconut activated carbon are much more effective ! they have very effective filtersin bofa they dont use exactly activated alumina but speciallised industrial activated carbon impregnated by potassium permagnate this is custom and you cant buy it from carbon shop , the chinese fume extractor dont use impregnation on carbon - they use some kind of high-effective coconut activated carbon - industrial gradeusually the impregnation of carbon is used for chemisorb most harder smaller gas particlesyou compare one carbon with another carbon filter ? you cant compare this untill you knows whats exactly is inside this filtersalso the bofa v250 and chinese fume extractor knokoo fes150 will be not enough to absorb fumes generated from bga station (much more than few grams of gas) - for this you should try fes350 chinese or larger units from bofa because small filters designed for small workplacesat last in basic reality whorst irritant and harmfull gas particles need very effective gas filters and this filters include very effective carbons/aluminas to meets this requirements otherwise if not all of this filters must be very large and contain alot of bed kgs - so designing diy custom soldering filters are totall waiste of money

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmthere alot of different type smallest gas particles generated during soldering and all of them not completly absorbed by activated carbons these include:Molecule Criticaldiam. (Å) Molecule Critical diam.(Å)Helium 2.0 Propylene 5.0Hydrogen 2.4 Ethyl mercaptan 5.1Acetylene 2.4 1-Butene 5.1Oxygen 2.8 trans-2-Butene 5.1Carbon monoxide 2.8 1,3-Butadiene 5.2Carbon dioxide 2.8 Chlorodi fluoromethane (Freon 22®) 5.3Nitrogen 3.0 Thiophene 5.3Water 3.2 Isobutane to isodocosane 5.6Ammonia 3.6 Cyclohexane 6.1Hydrogen sulfide 3.6 Benzene 6.7Argon 3.8 Toluene 6.7Methane 4.0 p-Xylene 6.7Ethylene 4.2 Carbon tetrachloride 6.9Ethylene oxide 4.2 Chloroform 6.9Ethane 4.4 Neopentane 6.9Methanol 4.4 m-Xylene 7.1Methyl mercaptan 4.5 o-Xylene 7.4Propane 4.9 Triethylamine 8.4n-Butane to n-docosane 4.9for this particles you need extra filters not just activated carbon filter

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:18:38 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmin yours photo diagram you have included comparise activated carbon vs activated alumina (white balls) not impregnated with potassium permagnate ! - white alumina balls have less capacity than alumina impregnated with potassium permagnate - the impregnation of kmn04 on alumina bed doubling its capacity do you understand this ? this is violet alumina called purple pellet (puratex) violet balls and its capacity is declared in % it can have 4 - 8 - 12% of kmn04 and if more have then more capacity you get

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmwhite alumina balls apply only in water filtration from heavy metals because its capacity is enough for this operation , the violet (purple) alumina is used for filtering smaller gas particles in soldering fume extractors in high-quality air purifiers like IQAir GC MultiGas

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:35:08 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmin 3d printer filters they use activated alumina with just 4% of potassium permagnated (kmn04) - consider "just" becoz 4% of impregnated bed have enough capacity to filter 3d print fumes and fit in small filter box - you can allways use 200kg of activated carbon for soldering fumes but you must refill yours filter after 2 months of soldering and 200kg of carbon will cost fortune , but bofa v250 with its indsutrial grade carbon (impregnated by potassium permagnate) will last 6 - 12 months and will cost you more cheaper

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmexample of 1kg activated carbon can absorb 100 grams of ammonia and cost 5 euro so if you wanna to filter ammonia the activated carbon choice will be right for youexample of 1kg activated carbon can absorb 0,00001 grams of formaldehyde and it cost 5 euro - its price is unprofitable for removing formaldehydes the profitable price is only in specialised activated carbon industrial grade or activated alumina (speciall versions) who can absorb 10 grams of formaldehyde and it cost 10 euro per/ 1kg i hope you understand this complicated requirements otherwises you will pay and waiste alot of money for building uselles diy soldering filters

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 08:53:00 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 23, 2023, 09:38:10 pmthis are example informations from weller zero smog gas filters:Wide band gas filterFor cleaning harmful fumes and vapours. The Wellerwide band gas filter consists of 50 % active carbonand 50 % Puratex. Harmful gases with a high molecular weight are cleaned by the active carbon. Puratexis suitable for absorbing gases of lower molecularweight. Because of its composition, Puratex is ableto convert a large number of chemical pollutants bymeans of molecular modification into non-pollutinggases.and this is exactly what i mean

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2023, 10:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: lfldp on October 26, 2023, 08:06:00 pmSo now its 1,000,000 times more effective than activated carbon? Before you said 100 times. Anyway your claim is incorrect asthe number is 16mg/gfor carbon.Quote from: lfldp on October 26, 2023, 08:18:38 pmOK potassium permanganate impregnated activated alumina. Indeed it seems relatively cheap, but in my country I only see it available in very large 55lb bags.I am sure it is effective and for some chemicals better than activated carbon (some not). But, you have not provided proper citations, only wild claims about its performance.Here is a list of chemicals to get you started:https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article-abstract/38/5/753/165539Please try to focus your thoughts into a single post.

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2023, 08:13:40 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 26, 2023, 10:05:16 pmQuotei give you just example as about technician documentations i should have on my pc old archives and when i find them ill upload youQuote- problem is if you have 95% of chemicals very poor absorbed by activated carbon and 5% of chemicals good absorbed by activated carbon then impregnated alumina is the only choicestandard activated carbon is designed for this what it is - not for small angstrom diameter molecules , by using standard activated carbon for filter soldering fumes its like you use chinese drill for release rennovations by company - they pay few times more than for one dewalt drill at all , for small rennovation chinese drill is profitablewell try and do yours DIY soldering fume extractor filter and let us know yours results , i did create many of them in last few years and i just tryin to warn there people about this diy filters are not whorst to make them - ill upload photos later , the hepa filter and prefilter you can buy cheap and use and they will be ok but the GAS STAGE filter isnt profitable to make you have no access to specialised activated carbons industrial grade with impregnates and whatever you try to create you will pay much more than for bofa/chinese filters if you want to achieve same gas filtration results or nearest and filter will be very largelater ill upload you photos of what ive created if i find them

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2023, 08:23:10 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 26, 2023, 10:05:16 pmQuotemost of desired soldering gas chemicals have size below 4A (angstroms) - there is also bed called molecular sieve type 3x 4x 13x , by 4x you can filter out most of soldering gas particles but from my experience these molecular sieves are less effective than activated alumina with kmno4if you want relatively cheap activated alumina with kmn04 in poland one company selling ithttps://allegro.pl/oferta/aktywowany-tlenek-glinu-3-5mm-1000g-ka01-12850753880- ask for purple balls 3-5mm but be aware this alumina cost 30% higher than camfil alumina and it have less effectivity but the camfil alumina you cannot buy just 1kg but minimum 20kgthis company have also molecular sieves (warning ! it is very irritant and if you dont mix it with high-quality activated carbon 30% sieve + 70% carbon) you will fell very irritant smell outgoing from yours filter -https://allegro.pl/oferta/sita-molekularne-molecular-sieve-12644223284from my opinion for small soldering workplace need filter with at last 15 - 20kg of activated alumina 8% from camfil and this filter will cost more money than bofa filters and will be very large so is not profitable again but if you wanna play do it

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2023, 01:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 26, 2023, 10:05:16 pmalso seems you still dont understand what is standard activated carbon available in internet shop than high-quality custom made activated carbon or treated activated carbon - the link you gave me claim about this company activated carbon impregnated with kmn04 works better than activated alumina impregnated with kmn04 for formaldehyde removal - all is depending on activated carbon type quality and impregnation value the problem is activated carbons cant be impregnated with high value of kmn04 the impregnation of bed damage part % of carbon quality the best bed for impregnation is activated alumina also it depend what kind of activated alumina they test vs they activated carbon because every alumina is different in quality activated carbons tooweller zero smog use speciall blend of activated alumina made by purafil it has more better quality and adsorbtion properties than activated alumina from camfil for sure... also purafil company release new activated alumina impregnated with different potassium - with that one one ball of alumina can get even 17% of potassium this is very high activity

author: lfldp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2023, 07:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 26, 2023, 10:05:16 pmah and i forget again somethingthe activated alumina purple with kmn04 you can buy small ammount from alibaba sellers - they have for sale "samples" and btw. you said the activated carbon absorb other chemicals than alumina cant - thats right but in "our case" solder fume extraction most of the smoke contain alot of molecular weight particles so the chemisorb (impregnated carbon or alumina) must be used and offcourse is mixed with standard activated carbon but alumina or threated carbon (purple carbon with kmn04 or other) is main most important part in these filtersis very hard to filter solder gas particles they are not like odours and in reality someone must create very big filters to remove them but in commerciall solder fume extractors they use very high-activity filters for this is enough to put 1,5kg of this chemical filter thats why they cost alot but from my opinion the chinese filters like knokoo meet all needed requirements and i use them everyday instead of bofa v250