Henkel GC10 Solder Paste - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 08:27:19 pm
content: Thought i'd tell you a little it about myfirst experience with Henkel's GC10 solder paste.GC10 was billed as the first "room tempereture" stable Solder paste, you dont' need to store it in the fridge, and someone recommended i give it a try, at least for doing my prototypes / small run stuff, which is hand stenciled.The stuff is *Awesome*.. Its is exceptionally easy to work with, it adheres really nicely ( i'm on Gold ENIG boards ), and my stainless stencils come away very cleanly. I've recently done a bunch of .4mm QFNs and DFNs, mostly 0402's and its all tight pitch.. Honestly in the lab i woud expect to have at least a few parts that were problematic.I got 100% good joints ( 167 parts, 392 pads )Yes, its quite a bit more expensive than other pastes, (500g was ~US$80 ) but I'll never go back to anything else. and 500g will go a long way.I'm sold.NB. I have no assocaition with Henkel/Locktite, they dont' pay me any money. ( i pay them money )..

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 08:32:23 pm
content: I am using GC10 since a few months and can confirm your enthusiasm 100%.This is by far the best solder paste I ever used ( GC10 SAC305T4 ).

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 08:53:51 pm
content: Can leave on the PCB for 24 hours and it's still tacky and reflows fine. Also very good at stencilling and solvent do not separate (leftover paste become drier with each pass) unlike some others (including temperature stable Warton metals paste).

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 11:04:18 pm
content: Pity you can only buy it in 500g tubs. And their sample request form doesn't work ( for me anyway - can't enter anything in the email field)Can't say I've ever seen issues with storage etc. I get through one 500g tub in maybe 6-9 months and store at room temp - only new full stock is in the fridge.I occasionally need to add a few drops of liquid flux & mix it in if it starts to get dry.This is "Shenju Sparkle" paste from Ebay.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 03, 2016, 11:21:07 pm
content: Maybe I should fill a few syringes and sell them? Don't think that going to use all of the jar before it's past date. I don't return used paste to the main jar, so it's completely fine.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 01:09:53 am
content: it may not be great paste for a production line. but for lab/workshop prototypes its great.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 04:38:03 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 03, 2016, 11:21:07 pmFWIW,CML Supplydoes that with Kester EP256 here in the US (no-clean, 63/37). It still requires refrigeration however, and like the Henkel GC10, only comes in cartridges or a tub from Kester. It's really good stuff IME though, and breaking it down into syringes is very useful for hobbyists/prototyping/repair users.So it just might be worth giving it a go for supplemental income.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 10:10:38 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on September 04, 2016, 01:09:53 amWhy not ?

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 12:03:51 pm
content: and it is perfect for dispensers because it lasts for a very long timein the dispenser's glass tube.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 06:14:48 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2016, 10:10:38 amThere are remarkably good pastes out there. I'm sure some of them will have superior characteristics to the GC10 in terms of adhesion, lift off etc. However other attributes of them, such as lifetime, storage, handling, pre-use processing, make them painful unless you are doing lots of boards when compared to GC10.THe GC10 is just great from the ease of use for doing a quick one off, as you litterally can just blob some on the stencil and get started.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 06:19:52 pm
content: Does the GC10 have a leaded version?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 06:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 04, 2016, 06:19:52 pmThat was the main thing stopping me buying a whole pot to try.In a simple toaster-oven, leaded gives you enough margin between "reflow" and "incinerate" that you don't need to worry too much about uniformity and preceise temperatur control.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 08:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2016, 06:39:05 pmIf they just improved the flux part I don't see why it should not work also with leaded, unless if the don't have much market for it.

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 08:21:42 pm
content: Has anybody tried the GC3W temperature stable water clean paste?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 10:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 03, 2016, 11:04:18 pmThat is what I was wondering about too. A half a kilo jar is a completely useless waste for me, I need a paste once in a blue moon, so a syringe would be plenty already. The last one I had ended up thrown out because it dried out, even after being stored in a sealed bag in the fridge

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2016, 10:48:30 pm
content: GC10 seemingly does not dry out at all. I can leave it in the syringe for a month with uncovered needle and then just use it. All other pastes I used before would clog the needle in less than a day.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 12:22:45 am
content: I looked at their website. 'GC' stands for 'game changer'. I could find only GC 10 and GC 3, both are lead free. Up to 25C, shelf life is at least one year. At 40C, only 1 month.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 06:19:31 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2016, 06:39:05 pmIn deed. one of the reasons i'm getting a Vapour Phase Oven.

author: Smallsmt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 11:57:24 am
content: Hi Andrew,for the vapor phase oven I think you should use COBAR SCAN-Ge071-XF3+ ask Marc please.I use GC10 in the past 12 months and my 500g are now gone.It's easy to use but for printing at high room temperatures you should cool the paste down.At the end of my GC10 paste pot i received more grave stones so I think after 10 months mostly uncooled something changed.But still a very good result and stencil cleaning is much easier too.Best regardsMichael

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 12:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: Smallsmt on September 05, 2016, 11:57:24 amUnless you are reflowing the same design, not necessarily. The main pitfall of the vapor phase is tombstoning IMO. In my last design one particular ferrite bead tombstoned on each 4th board without obvious reason and always on the and particular side even though the tracks to both pads are similar.

author: Smallsmt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 04:21:14 pm
content: I used my big reflow oven and yes it was the same design.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 04:27:36 pm
content: Another possibility it that parts are put with less pressure (different PnP machine or settings/adjustments). When I hand assemble, if the parts are harder stuck into the paste, much less tombstoning occurs.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 04:30:38 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on September 05, 2016, 06:19:31 amPlease let us know how it works. I use GC10 and Galden LS230 but the solder look isn't anything close to the GC10 brochure. It's great, it's easy, it protects the plastic FPC connectors from overheating which is brilliant but I'm a bit worried. I couldn't find small quantities of higher temperature Galden nor have access to a well-controlled oven to make my own tests, sorry.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 06:01:11 pm
content: Quote from: Koen on September 05, 2016, 04:30:38 pmSAC305 won't be shiny, only more dull or less dull. You will need a different alloy to get shiny joints. If you mean this one:http://www.henkel-adhesives.com/com/content_data/386989_14747_LT8035_GC_10_SS_FLRV2.pdf, IMO it's in liquid state at high temperature.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 07:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: Koen on September 05, 2016, 04:30:38 pmThe Galden 230 will be around 230C, which is 10C higher than the melt point. I'm confused ( and now a little worried ) as to why it wont' have soldered nice as sinney like it does using conventional process's.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 07:47:08 pm
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on September 05, 2016, 07:39:41 pm13oC higherSAC305 won't be shiny, even if soldered under the nitrogen atmosphere or even soldered by naked virgins.QuoteBecause it won't under any process at all.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 08:58:09 pm
content: Yes, wraper. The result I have is closer to what they show in the PDF as "Current technology" than the shiny "GC 10" shown next to it. It may be completely fine, I do not know. I haven't run a batch in a while but if memory serves me correctly, joints were shinier after having been retouched with a soldering station.Just did a quick check and the GC10 received in April from Farnell expires mid-October 2016. Might be related, I don't know.Anyway, Galden and GC10 made the whole process a breeze.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 09:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: Koen on September 05, 2016, 08:58:09 pmIf rapidly cooled, it will be more shiny / less dull. Just remember that lead free != shiny unless you use some not very conventional solders, SAC 305 used in GC10 is somewhere in the middle. Picture on the left have oxidized surface. Dull surface of SAC305 have nothing to do with oxidation. Only idiot would use higher boiling point galden unless if using higher melting point solder alloy like SN100C.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 09:19:45 pm
content: BTW solder on those pictures are on the very tiny micro BGA pads. They are so tiny that surface shrinking (which makes the surface dull) likely cannot even appear like on larger joints you see on your PCBs.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 09:38:14 pm
content: Here's some GC10 reflowed in a toaster oven controlled by the ControLeo2 reflow kit.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 09:52:57 pm
content: Quote from: Gary.M on September 05, 2016, 09:38:14 pmFYI, resistor and capacitor footprints are wrong. There shouldn't be even nearly such huge distance between the pads. Part just touching edges of the pads is not right.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 11:25:25 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 05, 2016, 09:52:57 pmHmm, I'll have a look at that. Cad is Protel 99SE, footprint is 1206.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 12:16:28 am
content: Quote from: Gary.M on September 05, 2016, 11:25:25 pmBut parts are 0805....

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 01:04:17 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 06, 2016, 12:16:28 amParts are not 0805 they are 1206 as marked on the bags from Digikey.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 01:36:52 am
content: Well the "standard" for reflow footprints seems to vary all over the place. Here are two references, both from Vishay. I'm looking at 1206. Anyone got a definitive reference on this?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 07:34:50 am
content: Footprint size can vary. Often there are multiple recommended sizes given - small, medium and large. Which you will use depends on how tight your board is populated and reliability requirement. If you have no board size constraints, use medium - large. What's wrong with the footprints on your board is pad spacing, not their size.

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 09:25:07 am
content: Quote from: wraper on September 07, 2016, 07:34:50 amThanks. I checked it against the Vishay patterns and as you said the pad spacing needed to be tighter so I've edited the pcb library part to correct it.Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 03:20:11 am
content: Newbis shouldn't really undigg old topics and if, they should get flamed! So...I was looking at Henkel GC10 because of the room temp storage. Actually I can stare it in a fridge, no problem there, but I worry about the transport. It will have a warming experiences there. With US$100 it's also not extremely cheap.Here is what I like to add: There are very few room temp storage solder pastes on the market. In my search I came across this lead-free, no-clean ones:Koki S3X48-M406ECOIt's Japanese made and might be a bit hard to get. Easier to get are the very similarS3X48-M406-3and S3X58-M406-3.I will give S3X58-M406-3 a try in the next few days.