ATMega328P JTAG Debugger/Programmer Recommendation? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2014, 05:57:12 pm
content: What would be the best JTAG programmer for going bare-metal using the Atmega328P? Work will be light-duty basement engineering stuff. I don't need a commercial tool at this time. Budget is around $100 USD or under. I want a programmer that is pretty plug-and-play. I'd rather focus on developing on the uC, versus developing a programmer/debugger.Is the JTAGICE3 pretty much the only choice with this criteria?Thanks in advance!

author: skennedy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 01:11:28 am
content: I'm pretty sure that the Atmega328p doesn't have a JTAG interface as such. Instead it has a single wire debugWire system which I've never used before and it looks like you need the AVR ONE! to use.My suggestion would be an AVR Dragon which I have used quite a bit and think it offers pretty exceptional bang for buck. It isn't as fast as the JTAGICE3 but it will do most of what you want. Best part is they are $54.29 USD at Digi-Keyhttp://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&keywords=avr+dragonleaving you enough in your budget to buy some cables to connect it to your board.Hope this helps,Simon

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 02:04:32 am
content: Will check out the dragon. Thanks!

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 06:32:11 am
content: You can get an AVR ISP MK2 to program the chip, or any of the clones available on the market.You can also get an AVR JTAG ICE to do some debugging.

author: picandmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 09:43:25 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 29, 2014, 05:57:12 pmThen I would suggest for now you buy an Arduino Uno with its 328, or an ebay clone board for around $10 , and use its inbuilt bootloader and serial monitor for easy feedback /debugging.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 10:03:10 am
content: buy a arduino nano clone from china (approx $6-8) and load the AVRISP sketch into it, connect 3 LEDs => ISP programmer for AVR chips in a instantit works well with AVRdude software.debugging on 328P ? well... AVRs are simple MCUs, so rather focus on a good software design instead of "let's debug that later"

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 08:07:38 pm
content: The newAtmel-ICEis 45-85 bucks (depending on which cable kit you get with it), supports ATMega, XMega, ATTiny, and SAM devices via every Atmel debug/programming protocol except the high voltage modes. As a first-party tool it's natively supported in Atmel Studio, and will likely be much faster than any STK clone. That's a set of features that'll be really hard to beat.I don't know how it compares to the JTAGICE3, since the latter is still priced higher it must have some advantage, but for basement engineering I'd probably go for the versatility of the Atmel-ICE, unless you really need HVPP/HVSP, in which case the Dragon is the way to go.

author: larsdenmark
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2014, 08:50:29 am
content: Quote from: ajb on December 30, 2014, 08:07:38 pmYes, the Atmel ICE is the latest addition to the line of debuggers (this is hard to tell from looking at the Atmel website).Atmel has produced a video on how it works (which I can't find at the Atmel website at all):

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 11:36:48 am
content: Ah yes atmel edge, started on the right foot got very content free and waffle rich and then got cancelled with no explanation. Could have been a nice show but judging from atmels video output the department is run on attention deficit and they keep trying to be clever and spend more time making it look good with minimal content and lots of waffle from people who look like they don't really want to be on camera but have to to make it look like atmel is massive with all of these people and it looks horrible contrived. Paul Rako was the first genuine looking one and dissapered as fast as he got started after boring us to death in hist last known episode waffling about what he didn't like about a sprinkler timer and never got round to the promised redesign.I really wonder what atmel are playing at with their youtube channel, looks like it's micro managed and keeps changing manager every week.I have an atmel ICE, they confused the hell out of everyone with and ICE 1, 2 &3 that were not cheap and then realized that they needed to get in with the game and launched the cheap ICE (ICE 4?) which as a name scheme just made it confusing and declared that they beleived in cheap affordable tools and always had, yea right, while microchip had the pickit for under £20 atmel were selling the AVRJTAG that looked just like the AVRISP for over £200.........I use atmel but I'm not a fan boy, I just got fed up with microchip antiquities.

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 03:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 29, 2014, 05:57:12 pmFirst of all why would anyone want to use AVRs any more?? Are you some kind of historian, mastering avrcheology??As mentioned, those (facelift) ATTinyxx8 series do not have JTAG. Tinies use proprietary dW (debug wire) which offers limited functionality w.r.t. proper (JTAG'ed) ATMegas.The JTAGICE (a.k.a. JTAGICE-Mk1 ) does not service dW at all. It is their JTAGICE-Mk2 and -Mk3 that does dW debugging. Atmel also offers "drag-on", and most notable "avr-once" (600$ fail). Search AVRFreaks for that.As for their newest "at-me-lice" tools, it is also proprietary, custom chip, afaik it works only with their visual studio and only with their uCs.QuoteLooks like you have never heard about their "STK600" ($200) rip-off. They advert supporting JTAG but after unboxing you realize it actually supports only programming of the flash butno debuggingcapabilities..

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 03:16:06 pm
content: Well I will tell you one thing, at least they have far more functionality and don't present stupid silicone bugs on some of their most popular parts like microchip do. Their history of tools been expensive and by the sounds of it with poor functionality is what has hampered them so far. I don't understand the ins and outs of all of the interfaces but to be fair does the pickit support other chips and software interfaces? They have at last come up with a single tool for the whole range of chips which seems to do everything for a decent price. Were you expecting it to work with microchip as well? Most people supporting microchip claim that the extras you get on AVR are not necessary well if you don't mind I will be the judge of that.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:09:47 pm
content: If you are using AS6 the ICE is the way to go, it is very fast and works well in the 328 debugging I've done.I also made a 100mil adapter board for it to get away from those 50mil connectors:

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: Brutte on January 01, 2015, 03:10:39 pmSimplicity. Ubiquity. I don't need much for what I'm playing with. I also played with the ARM and quickly realized that was the wrong places to start out. It's a good place to end up, but for now, I'd rather have faster results on antiquated technology.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:58:28 pm
content: If you want to debug ATMegas, you must stick to the Atmel tools - i.e. JTAGICE or AVR Dragon for a low cost options.Mega328 doesn't have JTAG at all (only Atmel-specific DebugWire). The Megas which do have JTAG (e.g. ATMega32) use a proprietary variant of the commands that is not documented, so a generic JTAG adapter won't work. If you want to use AVRs, you are pretty much stuck with Atmel tools.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 05:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on January 01, 2015, 04:30:42 pmQuite, plus the AVR is sturdier than the ARM's. Find me an ARM to work over 85C...... some people need to understand that there are applications broader than their own and just because they have no use for one does not mean someone else does not.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 05:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 01, 2015, 05:04:25 pmThey are made on a different lithograph size. That is why they have so few peripherals, withstand 5V, and cannot run very fast.Above 85 degree your "application and gadget" processors found in the <50$ dev boards are not represented in big numbers. However, there are still plenty capable of 125 degree. Yet, these are more expensive in both part and development cost, and will probably require a call to get bulk. Those temperature numbers aren't the maximum capabilities, just a legal precaution.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 05:21:07 pm
content: I can get an ATMega168 in -55 to 150 spec for £4.5 for 5, but Atmel don't do an ARM uC that will match that range. Yes in my case it's more for legal cover, I'd be nuts using an 85C chip at over 85C in a safety critical device.........

author: MrAureliusR
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 09:28:21 am
content: DO NOT BUY AN AVR DRAGON!There are so many reports of it failing, mine included!! I'm still pretty pissed that I paid for a ZIF socket, and now the thing just does not work at all. I've tried hacking on it to no avail. Firmware updates make no difference.Seriously, cough up the cash for the JTAGICE3! Or, on Newark, I noticed there's a JTAGICE-BASIC for almost the same price as the AVR Dragon...Just my two cents.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 09:33:07 am
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on January 03, 2015, 09:28:21 amThe ICE is the latest one out. I have not used mine much but it works fine I don't know if you realise that you're referring to 2 different products. Their latest is just called ICE whereas in the past they made an ICE 1, 2 & 3. I'm not sure if there is any difference I think they just made case cheaper. They are obviously trying to compete with the PICkit

author: Brutte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 01:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 03, 2015, 09:33:07 amI have never tried their at-me-lice but I recommend to be extremely cautious when buying any tools from this company. Before you buy - read all tiny seventeen asterisks on the EULA what BASIC really means. Then study the forums, ask the (avrfreaks) users about the exact tool and exact revision.My experience says that for Atmel the "BASIC" does not mean the cheaper case as you suggest, but rather that the tool is going to die even sooner than their standard junk.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 01:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: Brutte on January 03, 2015, 01:30:32 pmNot sure whether die, but e.g. Dragon was crippled to be able to only debug parts with with <32kB of memory, probably in order to not compete with the much more expensive ICE line. They have removed this limitation in 2013 or so, but it wouldn't surprise me if something similar was going on here again.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 01:58:28 pm
content: Quote from: Brutte on January 03, 2015, 01:30:32 pmWhy don't you get a firm grip on some facts. As I said I am not a fan boy but you seem to be quite misinformed. I haven't read the user licence but I did look at the various options available. Basic refers to just the actual unit with the simplest required cable to connect it to the targets. Other options include further cables and adapters for different connectors and chips and possibly a fancy case I don't remember but there are 2 or 3 options.While the Atmel ice looks a lot like the Atmel ice 3 they made the case for the ice cheaper with no metallised coating.

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2015, 09:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 03, 2015, 09:33:07 amThe "ATMEL ICE" it the latest one out, see my picture above. No one should buy a dragon these days, they are many generations of devtool behind.

author: LoyalServant
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 09:24:21 am
content: Quote from: MrAureliusR on January 03, 2015, 09:28:21 amDragonslayer!Been there, done that... have killed 3 myself.Quote from: alank2 on January 01, 2015, 04:09:47 pmOH I have to do this too.... those 50 mil connectors bug the hell out of me.Very nice.Just want to point out that if you get them from Atmel they are cheaper than via a distributor... might ship slower.I have generally received stuff from Atmel within a week so it's not that bad.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2015, 11:13:12 pm
content: The AVR Dragon problems are well documented - along with a fix:http://www.aplomb.nl/TechStuff/Dragon/Dragon.htmlIt is a shame that Atmel couldn't be bothered to fix these design problems after so long, but it is hardly a show stopper, IMO.I am pulling mine out only if I need to program some peculiar chip or don't have ISP wired up for some reason (or it doesn't work because of fuse settings) - i.e. very rarely. And then I am fairly careful, being aware of the issues described in the linked article. I don't actually think I have ever used it to debug any AVR - I have mostly used PICs and ARMs in the cases where debugger was required.

author: funycat
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 28, 2015, 10:39:24 pm
content: Quote from: alank2 on January 01, 2015, 04:09:47 pmThanks for the great design!And here is my contribution for those who buy the Atmel ICE debugger in the bare PCB form:Have designed an enclosure for printing on 3D printer.You can find it published on thingiverse.com at this address:http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:983293

author: alank2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2015, 02:37:42 am
content: Your case turned out great funycat!

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 10:23:26 am
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