[DONE] Sugon 8650 110VAC NEW still in unopen box - because of unionrepair.com - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 03:34:27 am
content: It seems I do have bad luck with buying a new hot air station.This is why I decided to buy a Sugon 8650.I am in located in USA but I moved from EU, so my bench runs on 240VAC 60Hz here in USA. I ordered a Sugon 8650 fromhttps://www.unionrepair.comand I selected the 220VAC version. The customer service thought it was my mistake and changed it to the 110VAC version and shipped it. They sent a message with their system notifying their action, but I was able to read it only after 3 days and it was too late.So I have now a boxed Sugon 8650 110VAC I did not ordered.unionrepair will give me a full refund but the shipping cost to china are out of my pocket, and it does not make sense to sent it back.They are very polite in telling me they painted myself in a corner.Anyone want this nice hot air station?I paid $356.72. Anyone wants it for330$ shipping included?Trying to minimize the loss here... even if it was not my fault....It's a very nice unit:

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 05:23:55 am
content: A 110V rated (Japan mains?) will be 10% over loaded on a 120 V mains in USA (nom can be up to 128V)Same for a 220V unit on 240V nominalJon

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 06:01:12 am
content: Japan is 100V, not 110V.Before the US standardized on 120V, we also had 110V, 112V, 115V and 117V. It's very common here in the US to see some of those printed on older electric equipment.It's also common for modern devices to be a little bit sloppy with their labeling, or they will try to limit the number of choices by fudging the numbers a little. For example, I have some new Keysight equipment that has only three settings: 100V, 115V and 230V.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 07:41:57 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on July 05, 2024, 05:23:55 amNo it's worse than that since P = V2/RIncreasing the voltage from 110V to 220V will increase the power by 20%.

author: elektryk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 10:44:29 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 05, 2024, 07:41:57 amRather 110V to 120V.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 11:10:48 am
content: In my experience, the difference between 110V and 120V is almost academic... In Brazil, where the nominal voltage on about 60% of the cities has changed over the decades (110V, 120V, 127V), equipment and appliances were always used interchangeably with some minimal practical results (except incandescent light bulbs which were sensibly shorter lived). I don't think the station would have its heater directly fed by the mains, so the lifespan influence would not be very significant.

author: testpoint1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 03:19:30 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on July 05, 2024, 11:10:48 amno, if that is directed power supply element, just like the heating element, for example, Hakko 808 desoldering station, japan version is 100V, if you used it in US, the heating element will be burnt in any time.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 04:12:11 pm
content: I nhave a Hakko desoldering gun which i bought cheap from Japan. The heating element is the same part number as US version. Works fine. Temperature calibration maybe a bit off but i never bothered to adjust.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 08:33:47 pm
content: I don't understand, you wired your whole bench for 220V exclusively?Why would you not have 110V, surely you'll add some 110 stuff if you are planning on staying in the US for more than a few years.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 08:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 05, 2024, 08:33:47 pmbecause I plan to go back in Europe at some point.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 08:42:46 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on July 05, 2024, 11:10:48 am110% this.A good designed device should work +-20% nominal volt mains input.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 08:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: testpoint1 on July 05, 2024, 03:19:30 pmThere is no mention of differences between Japan and US. From 110V (as stated above) to US (120V) the issue is absolutely minimal.I have inadvertently plugged my Japanese FR-301 in 120V (by accident) and used it for about 1/2 hour. Apart from a louder pump operation, no other issues happened. Given its cost, I will not keep using it (I have a step down transformer for this tool).

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2024, 11:15:02 pm
content: For Hakko, some products are sold with specific voltages in mind, others cover a wide array of voltages and in some cases don't have any adjustments for the voltage input.Hakko FR-301 has two voltage ranges with minimal power differences, 100V-120V and 220V-240V:https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fr301_spec.htmlHakko FR-810B appears to have just one, 100V-240V and the output power varies drastically:https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fr810b_spec.htmlSo for the Sugon 8650 I would speculate that they only have two models, one labelled 110V for 100V-120V and another labelled 220V for 220V-240V. Is this information published in the manual???

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 01:00:43 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 05, 2024, 08:42:46 pmA lovely example of why being pedantic about voltages is not particularly persuasive.In 2000, Australia went from a 240V standard to a 230V standard .... OVERNIGHT.The secret of how this was done without any immediate equipment change lies in the next level of detail of the specification:240V standard: 240V +6%,-10%230V standard: 230V +10%,-6%Do the math.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 09:19:02 am
content: what tips does it come with?it's a beautiful station! i'm sort of interested even though my old, crappy station is still working and refusing to die.Quote from: Zucca on July 05, 2024, 03:34:27 amloss? why didn't you threaten to do a credit card chargeback? they did not deliver what you ordered. surely they'd refund you or send you a new unit for free because otherwise you'd do a chargeback, and they'd end up paying an extra chargeback fee on top of the refund.you sure you're not selling a unit you got for free? that's what youshouldbe doing. that's what i would be doing.i am pretty confident that you should be able to get a full refund including shipping etc. if the vendor doesn't do that for you after you threaten a chargeback, then go ahead and follow through on the threat.either fix your story or go get your money back from them or from visa.....this should not be a loss for you. their mistake should be a $300 windfall in fact.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 02:02:17 pm
content: I'm with Digger here. It's not your fault that the seller changed the order without contacting you first and then sent you the wrong model. File a Dispute with your CC company or whoever you used to pay for the order. And if you bought the item through Ebay or Amazon, you can file a dispute with them too.FYI for others, even though most household power in the US is 110 volts (or 115, or 117 or 120 or what ever you want to call it). 230 VAC is also available in every home and is used for large appliances such as air conditioners, stoves, water heaters, clothes dryers and so forth. And lot of people wire up their work shops with both 110 VAC and 230 VAC and use 230 VAC for welders and machine tools and many use 230VAC powered hand tools. I have hand held drills, sanders, circular saws and scroll saws that are powered by 230VAC. I use 110 VAC powered hand tools most of the time but I was gifted a bunch to 220/230 VAC powered tools from someone that brought them back from Oman so I keep them for when I might need them.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 03:15:07 pm
content: As for the supply error - that is thefullresponsibility ofNOTYOU.If they were so concerned about your choice, they should have ASKED you about it andwaited for a replyinstead of making an assumption and sending you whattheythought you should get.There are times to be nice ... and there are times to dig your heels in. This is an instance of the latter.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 07:43:25 pm
content: apologies for continuing to drag this off topic, but regardless of the measured voltage (which should not matter for a well designed device if it's close enough), the modern convention in the US is to call it a multiple of 120. not of 110 or 115.

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2024, 10:35:39 pm
content: Current Australian standard as of 2022 (AS IEC 60038:2022) is 230V +/- 10%.The US service-side standard is 120V +/- 5% but there are extra details such as -10% is OK on the consumption (device) side and there are even further variances allowed as long as they are "limited in extent, frequency and duration".As mentioned previously, plenty of manufacturers are sloppy. Just the other day I was looking at small refrigerators made in China, and they were all covered with "110V" labels.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 01:50:04 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 07, 2024, 03:15:07 pmI am embarrassed to admit sometime I need another pair of eyes to see the obvious.I just opened a PayPal case:This selling is on hold for now.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 02:55:04 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 08, 2024, 01:50:04 amto be clear, at this point, they have missed their opportunity for you to return it to them at their own expense. now that you are essentially doing a chargeback, you should fully expect to get the unit for free.congratsif you already have a 240V unit (or one on the way), go ahead and sell this whenever you feel ready.edit:my analysis of the situation is this. shipping from us→cn is very expensive. the cost is quite asymmetric.they gambled on you not doing a chargeback (or PP dispute in this case... note that in the remote chance the dispute fails, a chargeback should be your next move if you paid with CC). they lost the gamble, so they can Sugon Deez, lolthe cheapest option would have been for them to offer you a partial refund.next cheapest option would have been to send you a new 240V unit and say keep the old one. i say this because they are only out the wholesale unit price of the new unit + cn→us shipping.next cheapest would be incurring a chargeback since they're out the full retail price of the old unit (including cn→us shipping and merchant fees) + chargeback fee + hit to their reputation.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 02:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 07, 2024, 01:00:43 am240V standard: 254.4V - 216V230V standard: 253V - 216.2Vnow if I have to design a device powered from mains these below are my specs:240V: 288V - 192V230V: 276V - 184V

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 06:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: digger on July 08, 2024, 02:55:04 amI'd be very leery about doing that, and consider whether it's worth it... while you're correct that you'd be perfectly justified in doing a CC chargeback, PayPal's stance has always been that if you chargeback a dispute that wasn't in your favor they will permanently ban you from their platform. (they also used to try to claw the money back out of other accounts, if you had a linked bank account, though I think they got in trouble for that.)You probably would get your money back in a CC chargeback in that scenario, but you'd likely struggle to ever order anything again that relied on paypal payment.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 10:47:54 pm
content: Quote from: abeyer on July 08, 2024, 06:49:08 pmthat's a very good point. just one more reason to not pay with paypal unless there is a good reason to do so: mainly person-to-person payments when there is no better option available (e.g. zelle). a routine, CC-funded, online retail purchase is probably not a good use case because you're subject to PP's dispute process instead of your CC's unless you want to risk your PP acct.i've only done a couple of CC chargebacks. supposedly if you abuse it, your CC might do something, idk. but it was painless. i did it over the phone. they just asked me a few basic questions, immediately sided with me, and never followed up for more info or anything.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 11:17:02 pm
content: Quote from: abeyer on July 08, 2024, 06:49:08 pmBS! I've been using PayPal since Ebay made them mandatory over 20 years ago and I've charged back a number of items via PayPal and they've never given me any grief about it. As long as someone has alegitimatereason to make a chargeback they shouldn't have to worry about PayPal and the OP has a rock solid case for the item not being as described.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 01:47:07 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 08, 2024, 11:17:02 pmThere are plenty of people who don't have issues, but there are decades of horror stories out there, too, and at the end of the day you're at their mercy. Up to you to decide if it's worth it to take the chance.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2024, 07:09:18 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 08, 2024, 11:17:02 pmyou've done a chargeback through your CC on a PP purchase? did you do a PP dispute first?i assumed that PP would retaliate against you by clawing money back from your PP balance and/or from linked bank accounts or by terminating your account... i have experienced similar behavior from other things like from "buyee" (yahoo japan auctions proxy service).however, check this out:https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/buyer-protectionQuote from: paypal TOS(emphasis mine)i'm astonished by how reasonable their policy sounds. so yeah, i would totally follow up with a CC chargeback if the PP dispute does not work out. i'd drain my PP balance and unlink my bank accounts first, though. lool

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 03:11:48 am
content: unionrepair.com responded to my PP case:okay... but I think it is not right I have to bank out over $165 now to ship something back I did not order.Normally the seller is very sorry, send an return label to the buyer and the item goes back to them.My spider senses are now telling me my money stays in the bank and they have to pay to get the item back.

author: digger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 09:49:40 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 10, 2024, 03:11:48 amdon't fall over, man. keep fighting.lol obviously they want you to do that because the shipping is expensive, and they don't want to pay it. further, they probably think that there is a fair chance you will abandon the claim if you think you have to pay to send it back.i suggest explaining that the item is "significantly not as described" which is a PP term.this would be my message:hello, to re-iterate, i ordered a 240V unit but received a 120V unit that i cannot use because the voltage is incorrect. i.e. the item i received is significantly not as described. the item is expensive for me to ship back to you since i do not have access to commercial shipping rates – i was quoted over $165 to return it. since this is your error, can you please provide me with an insured, prepaid label to return it to you?then i would see what happens. the reason why i suggest documenting the $165 thing is to make it clear to the PP agent reviewing the dispute. i'm hypothesizing that the agent may realize that this is significant compared to the cost of the item and be more likely to say you don't have to return it or make the seller pay for return shipping.so maybe the seller will just offer to pay, maybe not. maybe paypal – even if they side with you – will tell you that you have to pay to return it, maybe not.https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/buyer-protectionQuote from: PayPal TOSso yeah, actually, i take back what i said about PP's policy being reasonable. it's shit. imagine how a foreign vendor can abuse this policy to scam customers if the return shipping is prohibitively expensive, lol...if things are not looking good, i would call paypal and then ask them to escalate it to a supervisor or whatever. just from googling, i've heard that this can yield good results, but the tier 0 peons usually can't help. gotta escalate. also, remember that the sticking point is you received the incorrect voltage and cannot use the item.did you pay with a CC?i would consider doing a chargeback if the PP dispute ends up not helping you resolve this to your satisfaction.in addition, in the future, i would not use PP at allas i explained a couple of posts ago. pay with a CC for normal online shopping. if there is a problem, talk to the seller. if the seller doesn't fix it, explain that you will initiate a chargeback if they do not resolve it to your satisfaction. if that fails, then follow through on the threat.if the seller accepts PP as their only payment method, i would just check out as a guest (paying with CC) and not sign into your paypal account. if there's an issue the seller won't fix, i wouldn't involve PP at all. i'd call my CC and do a chargeback.a CC (especially a good one) offerswaystronger buyer protections and less hassle.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 03:49:31 am
content: I did not pay with a CC, so PP is my only hope.Digger you are a life saver, your support is much appreciate. Like a pro!I sent a message to them asking to send me the return label. Let's see what they say then.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 03:51:01 am
content: Quote from: digger on July 10, 2024, 09:49:40 amUnionrepair doesn't accept credit cards. PP was the best option for me.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 11:13:35 am
content: The question then becomes.... What was the source of funding for PayPal?In my case, it is a VISA card - so if PayPal doesn't sort it, then I can hit up the bank that issued the VISA card and file a chargeback with them. PayPal won't like that, but they know it is a possibility.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 11:30:10 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 11, 2024, 03:51:01 amThat's a red flag for an established business. It implies CC companies have had trouble with them in the past, or there are trade barriers that will complicate matters.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 01:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 11, 2024, 11:13:35 ammy bank, because I wanted to avoid fees.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 01:45:52 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 11, 2024, 11:30:10 am...or they want to go as cheap as possible.That said I agree 110% with you, it has become very clear to me.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 02:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on July 11, 2024, 01:45:52 pmSomething being too cheap / good to be true is also a red flagOh well, at least it is anewmistake, and not the end of the world!

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 03:36:13 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 11, 2024, 02:26:42 pmOf course, in this case is was the cheapest available but not in the "for sure scam" territory.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 05:16:06 pm
content: PayPal should have your back on this. Do not under any circumstances issue a CC chargeback against PayPal unless you are OK being banned from their service.If you feel like gambling, one alternative might be to open the unit up and see if there is an obvious 110V/220V jumper on the transformer primary side. Good chance there is. There may be two primary windings that can be used in series or parallel...(Edit: watching the video above it looks like the transformer is in fact labeled 230V, so the above is probably not great advice. The 1300W heating element probably isn't configurable in any event.)

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 06:25:30 pm
content: After escalating with PP, unionrepair provided an UPS return label and the unit was dropped off today.Now once they receive it, I should get all my money back.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 02:11:16 pm
content: Lesson learnt:1) Avoid buy online from company who does not accept credit cards 2) Always have a plan B to escalate with seller (PayPal, Ebay or CC dispiute)3) Going for the cheapest price sometime is just a bad decision.4) If the order is something strange or uncommon (220VAC variant for USA) ALWAYS contact the seller before buying.Thanks you all for the nice discussion and support in my unfortunate case, especiallydigger.