Earth or Mars - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PICmonster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 03:55:20 pm
content: Hello EveryoneIf we start laying out electrical infrastructure on Mars one day will the return connections be to Earth or Mars?

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:05:59 pm
content: To ground

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:18:41 pm
content: Well, they probably have Mars quakes so that means a three-pin plug will be live, neutral and mars.An exercise for the reader, how are three-pin plugs wired on the International Space Station?

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:19:37 pm
content: Quote

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 11, 2015, 04:18:41 pmlive, neutral and floating?And on the moon, we don't earth things, we moon them

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:26:24 pm
content: You have to be communist to get to live in space. The Russians have had just over 1 space station on average up there since 1971. The USA shuttle went up less than 2 weeks at a time. now they can't get into space at all. Have to buy tickets same as we do from the Russians, or the chinese if they'd talk to them,

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:27:52 pm
content: there are no three pin plugs as there is no connection to earth, is that the riddle ?48v dc in the space station section, that's the russian orbital segment. and the passive modules of the USOS are all high voltage dangerous.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 11, 2015, 04:18:41 pmThey don't have them, they have combined 120 Vdc and data plugs, well at least on the US modules. I do believe the Russian side still uses a 28 Vdc similar to what the shuttle used though.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:42:53 pm
content: 28 sounds about right, but nothing to do with the nasa shuttle. Every country has had a space shuttle program btw.http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htmThe US uses dangerous voltages on their part of the ISS. people cannot work on the dodgy US solar panels without major protection, but the russian section is no problem to work on with bare hands.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:48:26 pm
content: I do not see an issue here. If go to space station/Mars and want to Earth some equipment, simply bring flower pot with you and stick a wire in it. That is how real profesionals do the earthing

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 04:50:23 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 04:42:53 pmI didn't say it was directly related, just similar.QuoteTwo countries used to have shuttle programmes, none do any more.QuoteTBH 120Vdc isn't that dangerous.QuoteThe hard vacuum could be a slight problem when trying to do thatThe Russian section also relies on the same 8 solar wings. The 28V vs 120V is just for distribution.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:39:50 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on August 11, 2015, 04:50:23 pmthat you know of. Two countries, which two do you mean ? Japan with their H2 Orbiting Plane (HOPE) and the French Hermes spaceplane ?Or the Russian Spiral OS manned spaceplane and the US SpaceShipOne ?Or how about the Chinese Shenlong or Tian Jiao or V-2 VTOHL ?Which two of the many many countries which have had spaceplane programs do you mean are the 'only two' sigh.QuoteI should have know. You're one of those.

author: PICmonster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:43:56 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on August 11, 2015, 04:19:37 pmI expect they have there own agreed space standard

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 05:39:50 pmAny of them actually flying manned missions? If the answer is no then no country has a shuttle programme.QuoteSpiral was cancelled in the 80s. SpaceShipOne isn't a shuttle, it's not actually a space vessel seeing as it's suborbital, and it's not the US's it's TSC's.Again if it isn't manned and doesn't go into space it's not a shuttle.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 07:14:22 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on August 11, 2015, 05:56:06 pmLol. Reminds me of how the USA completely lost the space race, and then as sore losers someone claims that Yuri Gegarin didn't go into space because he used a personal parachute to land. Plus, because the USA had rockets that were only 1/3 as powerful as they would need to be to get into space, they magically redefined space as 'just gettin high' and came up with 100 miles. hilarious. It's like you don't want to call it a space shuttle, so what is it, a cabbage ? lol.Considering 40% of the NASA space shuttle fleet exploded killing all on board in the two largest ever in flight space disasters, which are big records btw, I'd say it is a wise idea that other nations thought twice about doing such a stupid thing. The Russians saw Buran when it returned from space and thought, well, this is no safer than the Soyuz, and where would you go exactly ? it's like building a 22 wheel 100 ton truck with a bus at the front of it as well. What could you possibly do with it? drive through at McDonalds ? I mean where is it going ? They ended up doing nothing but joy-riding.At least the Russians and Chinese have progressive goals. Nasa no longer has any manned space program except buying tickets same as me (like NASA I have budget shortfalls at this time)

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 09:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 07:14:22 pmYou said every country HAS a shuttle programme, none currently do. The closest is a suborbital leisure craft that isn't a national programme but a private concern. Everything else you had to say had nothing to do with anything I was on about and you were kicking off about.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 02:08:27 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 11, 2015, 04:18:41 pmThey do.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 02:34:21 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 04:27:52 pmHmm, second thread in as many days where people seem to be incorrectly ascribing magical protective properties to the Earth. Perhaps it would be less confusing if the three wires were renamed thusly:- Live- Current return for live when things are going well (neutral)- Current return for live when things are going badly ("earth")The latter is *often* tied to Earth because current going from live through your body and into the garden is a "going badly" case. But all that's requires for three-wire safety to work is a) the "going badly" wire shall not carry current under normal circumstances so that no dangerous voltage drops can form and you can safely connect the cases of things to it, and b) "going badly" and "going well" conductors *are* connected together, but only on the other side of any RCDs.Whether the entire system is floating or not is irrelevant -- the Earth as a while is floating, after all, nothing special.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 05:13:41 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on August 11, 2015, 09:38:50 pmYou can go back and read it, but who has the time in this busy fast paced world, certainly not you right ? Here let me QUOTE my own original message.Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 04:42:53 pmSee ? I use past tense. As in "nasa HAD a manned space program, but can't get it up anymore". 8-)I HAVE a space program same as NASA, I try to think of ways to build my own spaceship, but I can't at the moment, and if I had enough money and Russia was willing, I'd buy a Russian ticket to orbit, funding constraints permitting, same as Nasa.I would buy a ticket to the outer solar system when those come up if I'm still alive.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 07:58:05 am
content: The third wire should be renamed the fault wire or trip wire unless of course it is a three phase system.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:00:33 am
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 11, 2015, 07:14:22 pmIt does make more sense tonotcall it a space vessel if it falls down again after you throw it up in the air. (EDIT: IMHO)

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:22:18 am
content: Quote from: apis on August 12, 2015, 08:00:33 amThat is exactly why so many people say Alan Sheppard's first flight was not into space. The rockets the US could build at the time were only about 1/3rd as powerful as the Soviet rockets. So Sheppard's ship could in no way come close to breaking free of gravity enough to enter orbit and not come down (for a while). That is how logical people think about space. You go up and do not come back down, you enter orbit. So Yuri went into orbit and the US redefined space as 100 US miles up. Laughable. Illogical. Spin. Hype.Same way some people are impervious to reason and think that Buran wasn't a space shuttle. It was larger, could lift 5 times as much as the US shuttle, carry more idiots inside, but they had a lack of idiots for it and use the Soyuz instead to this day because it is safer. (touch wood they don't change the production line). They got the Buran back from orbit and had a look at the few missing tiles and thought, screw this for an idea. I would goto mars with the Russians, I wouldn't go to the Airport with NASA let alone orbit.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:33:12 am
content: On an aircraft or space ship the earth/ground wire is connected to the metal chassis.The neutral point of the AC system or one of the rails of the DC system (normally negative) will also be connected to the chassis to prevent it from floating at a high voltage with respect to the chassis, under fault conditions.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:51:54 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 11, 2015, 04:18:41 pmWhat's really confusing is that for consistency the Mars wire has to be red.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:02:02 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on August 12, 2015, 10:51:54 amWhy? The Earth isn't green and yellow striped.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 12, 2015, 11:02:02 amsmog=grey

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 03:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on August 12, 2015, 11:02:02 amNow you're applying color common sense to a topic in which there's little place for it. Would you have made the Active wire brown, and Neutral blue, as in Australia? I guess different people make different mental associations with colors, but that always seemed to me the exact opposite of what I'd have expected. And WTF was wrong with red/black anyway? If all the color-blind people would hurry up and electrocute themselves, we wouldn't have that red/green confusion to complicate things.Besides, green and yellowisa fairly standard color theme for a lot of places on Earth. If you exclude the blue and brown bits.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 05:16:41 pm
content: "I would go to mars with the Russians, I wouldn't go to the Airport with NASA let alone orbit."Agreed when it comes to Russian engineering abilities however the food would be a problem. One week of Russian food is enough but if I had to eat it for three years during a Mars mission I'd either go crazy, starve to death or attempt to walk home.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 05:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: TheElectricChicken on August 12, 2015, 08:22:18 amThat's a lie. A little something happened to the USSR before the Buran was shelved and the resulting loss of money to fund it was what nailed the coffin lid shut.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 07:04:09 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 12, 2015, 05:16:41 pmYes, thank goodness that they will take their Chinese friends with them to Mars.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on August 12, 2015, 05:26:27 pmI disagree, the Soviet/Russian space program had a variety of ways to get into space including the worst way of all, which is to mix crew with cargo, a recipe for disaster. They had the choice of taking Buran OR Soyuz. It's like deciding which car to drive to work or wherever, if one is prone to falling apart or losing tiles, you might take the other. You can't ride two horses with one arse. You only need to get people into space, you don't need to fund a variety of ships (which they had) to do it. As for NASA today, they can choose to ask Putin for tickets to space, or what, ask the Chinese ? the US is not even on speaking terms with them.They could always put the Soyuz money into Buran, but what for ? you never need to take 100 tons to the space station every 6 months. Even the NASA shuttle, with only 1/4 the maximum payload only ever took 15 tons, ONCE. The rest of the time it was just packaging in a garbage truck.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:29:56 pm
content: Already set up for this, my gear all have Mars terminals on the rear.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on August 12, 2015, 08:29:56 pmI tried that, but unfortunate they melted...