Who Killed Radio Shack? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 10:55:47 am
content: cool video dave

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:26:39 pm
content: Very interesting. It's the first time hear this explanation of the ridiculously low shipping cost from China to the US due to UN regulations. If this is true than its a distorted market.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:45:25 pm
content: As someone that buys and sells on ebay, I was aware of the ridiculous difference in shipping costs between China and everyone else. I did not know about the different categories. That's just insane that China would be category 3. The USPS loses $1 on every package from China. What ?!? We need to withdraw from this UPU and let everybody pay the same price as residents at the border, or refuse delivery.

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 12:55:23 pm
content: I am for free trade! But free trade also has to mean fair trade. Who appointed the UN the gods of international postage rates? I had no clue about this. Some countries like China and Japan have also been really good at manipulating the currency market to artificially devalue their currency making their products cheaper to buy internationally. I don't like tariffs that are put in place to protect certain industries (like US domestic sugar production for example), I would be for tariffs against anything from countries that manipulate their currency to affect trade.A related bit of governmental wisdom that keeps money out of domestic markets in the USA (and I'm sure the same idea applies in other countries), is huge taxes when a domestic company tries to transfer money earned by an international division to the USA. (Trying to stay business based here and not get too political) The taxes levied against this money are HUGE, so no company will just transfer the cash. I know someone who ran a company with factories in multiple countries including China. If he transferred cash to the USA the taxes were over 30%! He wanted to expand the plant in the US but due to the tax structure it made more sense to build the machinery partially in China and then sell them at a loss to the US factory where they could be finished to the proper spec. The upshot is that a company is penalized for transferring money earned abroad back to the domestic market. This is a boon to China, et al., but a real detriment to everyone else.

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 01:01:25 pm
content: It is a really big problem as typically the retailers are selling the same products produced by the same China factories but they have to pay shipping costs and tariff charges when importing stock, followed by relatively high local shipping costs.The typical Chines seller avoids all that cost due to the subsidised postage prices, as well as having less regulation mens the cost of employing people to process the orders are much lower. Levelling the playing field on postage costs would help considerably.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 12:51:31 pmDoes this mean that you are OK with the asymmetric shipping cost?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:34:29 pm
content: This situation is not news to me. Australia Post suffers the same burden as USPS - and, I would hazard a guess, as does Royal Mail.It has been that way for quite some years - but one must ask why China remains at the most favourable level.Aside from the devastating effect this has on competition, the thing that really gets up my nose is that everybody is paying more for articles posted in Australia in order to help Australia Post cover the cost of subsidising China.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:37:23 pm
content: What I personally do when I want to buy cheap chinese crap, is look for a U.S. located seller of the same item and buy from them. It'll cost a couple of bucks more, but the fact that I get it in 2-3 days instead of weeks is worth it to me.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:48:04 pm
content: we recently made an order of cable assemblies from china.they actually outsourced the work... to a japanese company.why didn't we order from the japanese company in the first place? because it was cheaper to do this way, also because of shipping rates

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 02:44:31 pmI'm not familiar with the Canadian scene, but I have a little exposure to the Australian one - and I ask you: "Have you imported much?"

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 02:57:54 pm
content: The only advantage to buying within your country is usually shipping time. The UK is small: most post can arrive in 1-2 days. Some items even arrive same day. For many items, even if shipping costwasadjusted, the item would still be cheaper.Places like Radio Shack, Tandy, Maplin etc had HUGE mark ups and for a long time exploited that fact and then when China started selling direct they started moaning like crybabies.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:05:36 pm
content: Quotethat cannot be true. our dear forum experts have confirmed the universal truth: the chinese government subsidized their export shipping to benefit those who buy electronic junk from china.now you are saying that the UN made them do it? or our governments made UN made them do it? I'm shocked, absolutely shocked!Really, the guy is pretty myopic, if you ask me.1) on upu: soverign governments can elect not to sign those treaties. So if you want to blame for "unfairly low" shipping rates, you should blame your own governments, or your postal services to sign those treaties for self-inflicted wounds. maybe next time they can publish the treaties for public comments BEFORE signing them (hint to the most transparent administration in history, TPP. or ACA for that matter).2) on radioshack's death as a surprise: it was only a surprise to the super ignorant. it is plainly obvious that they were dying, to even the causally observant. In the business world, it was widely expected.3) on the cause of radioshack's death: the world shifted from right underneath those guys. the hobbyist market isn't sustainable in today's world. electronics are getting cheaper, and designed to be mass produced, and shipped globally. the internet / ecommerce is just the last straw that broke the base of the camel called radioshack.its moronic management didn't help either.for the society at large, radioshack's death is a progress in the right direction: that's how our recycle capital, from the least / less efficient ones to the most / more efficient ones.without death like radioshack's, you don't get birth of something better and newer.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:06:09 pm
content: Most favourable level is 5 (for least-developed countries). China is at level 3, basically the one all those countries that don't fit in any of the others fall in.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:07:38 pm
content: It was less than 10 years ago when the USPS was heavily subsidized and the shipping rate of the surface mail from the US to Europe were pretty low - even cheap some would say. The other US shipping service providers like Fedex or UPS couldn't compete with the USPS due to the heavy subsidising. Still, even today the USPS gets $18 billion each year from the federal govt:http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/Yes, Chinese sellers are heavily subsidized today and people are buying stuff from the Chinese sellers due to cheap prices and free/cheap shipping. Did this kill Radio Shack, I do not know.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 02:41:34 pmYou dodged my question. Are you OK with the asymmetric shipping cost?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: NottheDan on September 18, 2016, 03:06:09 pmLet me guess, at level 5 you get paid to send mail. ;-)The issues of inexpensive shipping from China came here a few times but the general assumption was that this is due to there low labour cost and the fact that the sending side determines the cost. The fact (if it is true) that this is actually based on a discriminative regulation by a UN agency is new to me. That's a completly different story.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:46:28 pm
content: I ship small items all over the world. Being based in US depending on the destination country the shipping costs are ridiculous and sometimes cost as much as the item I am selling (and this is the cheapest option using USPS). I actually even subsidize the shipping cost by taking less profit on those since I charge a $10 flat international shipping, and I've had cases where I had to pay $15 or more.Very different to what Chinese sellers on Ebay have to pay. I've seen items as cheap as $5 with free shipping. Which is unbelievable.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 03:47:03 pm
content: I would also claim that there has been quite a big change in the field of electronics as a hobby. Yes, today's beginner hobby builder can buy through-hole components or kits and build some electronic gadgets presented in the few remaining hobby magazines. However, most of the exiting projects are based on microcontrollers, and the information is available on the internet for free. You can buy those microcontrollers as a modules, like Arduino or mbed. Those modules are really inexpensive. Stocking the standard logic gates, 741's and 2N3904's is not profitable any more - and nobody is really using 741's any more so you should stock quite a lot different op amps. Building stuff using the logic gates and discrete components is not considered useful as you can get much improved performance and lots of extra features in a smaller size when implementing the project using microcontroller. Changing the functionality of the project device is pretty easy - just reprogram the microcontroller. Yes, you still need some glue components, but not as much as before. Also, programming computers and stuff a like has driven people away from the electronics as a hobby. So, there may be much more in killing the Radio Shack than just the Chinese postal fees.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:04:33 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 12:51:31 pm

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:04:47 pm
content: I think Radio Shack was only used as an example to illustrate the main point, which wasthe ridiculousan unfair imbalance in postal delivery cost between Chinese and U.S. based mailers.Probably if China had to pay the same postage as U.S. residents do currently, charges for domestic mailings could be drastically reduced or even eliminated. I would consider that a "benefit". Not likely that would ever happen though.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:17:50 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 18, 2016, 02:37:23 pmYeah especially if you are in a situation where time == money. Sometimes saved time is more economical than the actual price difference.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 18, 2016, 04:04:47 pmThere are 2 flaws in that assumption:1) everyone wants to wait 4 weeks for an item to arrive2) every shipment is below the import tax thresholdIMHO the presenter picked two items which where cheaper from RS than China but I'm pretty sure these are exceptions. When I look around in the Netherlands at online shops selling tools I notice that they charge at least twice the amount of money for an item compared to buying it from China directly.If RS was indeed cheaper then what probably killed them is was trying to compete on price instead of convenience and service.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:34:03 pm
content: I think anybody who has done these two things probably understood what the main point was.1. Bought something from China thru ebay for $1.99 or less with "free shipping".2. Personally mailed small package across town.Radio Shack really has little to do with it.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:48:21 pm
content: I think that the video is tendentious and manipulator. I see that the USA have fear the lost their world hegemony and they need to demonize their rivals China and RussiaNow they begin to slander ,sooner they will return to a Monroe Doctrine(*).* The file named "carta" is an example of the Monroe Doctrine by the Apple case

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 04:59:27 pm
content: Radio Shack kills itself. It always easy to blame others. If you put a Radio Shack model in China and remove the postage factor, Radio Shack would also fail. When there is internet, if the retailers still want to extort the same margin, they shall fail. Yet new type of retailers like Zara and Uniqlo can succeed.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 05:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 03:35:49 pmThanks for clarifying your position.Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 03:35:49 pmI see a problem with central regulation (an UN agency in this case) that arbitrarily skews international trade.Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 03:35:49 pmDomestic USPS consumer will benefit from not having to subsidize shipping from China.I fail to see how your hate to some people translates to support for centrally regulated skewed and discriminative shipping costs.

author: Jeff_Birt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 05:17:33 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on September 18, 2016, 04:48:21 pmThe video uses Radio Shack as an example and outline the problem of the UN manipulating postage rates which is a benefit to some and detriment to others. Manipulated postage rates do benefit China unfairly to the detriment of most other nations, which is the point of the video.I also wonder how many of those bemoaning the salaries of CEOs spend $60 on their favorite teams jersey and root for their favorite players who make millions of dollars a year? As long as these salaries are due to the free market who cares. If a board or directors screws up in who they hire or what they do let the company go bust (i.e. no government sponsorship or bailouts.)

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 05:22:22 pm
content: It almost sounds like some people didn't actually watch the video and are making assumptions based on the title. Radio Shack was only used as an example, it just as easily could have been Sparkfun or Adafruit or any number of others. Of course, using Radio Shack makes for a more attention grabbing title.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 05:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 18, 2016, 04:04:47 pmWhat this manipulator never says is Radio Shack when they imported the same items by container, the shipping cost to RS is almost zero as compare to the cost of individual packages to the China drop shippers. If he wants to compare shipping cost to shipping cost. But he is not. He skipped the big part on how the RS prices their goods vs their cost. Those goods that they sold must cost them less than 25% of what the drop shippers are selling, and yet they are selling them with no value-add at 100% of the drop shipper price which is probably 300 to 400% of their cost price. With the internet, if they cannot value add, they just can't compete with virtual store that does not need to pay rent.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:11:56 pm
content: He wear so formal and with a backdrop that is trying to make him looks authorative but his intent is evil. There are quite a lot of this type video against China that purpose is political. My experiences with drop-shippers are no good, the quality is not consistent and the shipping delay is too unpredictable and too long. But these drop-shippers add some value to people who could not shop directly on china website. The status 3 that China enjoyed also are not so competitive as it is tied with local post offices, both are equally inefficient. But the drop-shippers are not even using that. They are using somekind of bulk shipping that Dave used before that could ship all over the world. People who know how to buy from china website are not using drop-shippers and are not using the China post. I am paying full market price for a higher quality product and delivery and yet at a lower price than the drop-shipper is selling.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 05:36:06 pmWell, some countries bicker better than others. This is one of the promises in our current national election cycle, better negotiation skills and results.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 06:35:31 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 18, 2016, 03:31:54 pmThe calculations and criteria are somewhat complex.http://www.upu.int/uploads/tx_sbdownloader/docCongress20bTerminalDuesEn.pdf

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 18, 2016, 05:10:03 pmThe UN signify less that the wisthle's guyQuote from: AcHmed99 on September 18, 2016, 03:35:49 pmSo ,It is the same as Apple at Europe with his discriminate taxes. They use the trick of "Double Ireland Coffe", they have shops and benefits on all countries of europe,but they only pay 1%at rest of europe and 99% on ireland.And if you have read the letter, all the USA corporations have gone out on squadron for threating to Merkel.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: vodka on September 18, 2016, 07:05:24 pmI am not familiar with the EU's tax laws and regulations so cannot comment on this. The EU can tax by the registration country or by the destination country of the goods sold. The people of the EU have my permission to chose either approach.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:35:18 pm
content: i missed radioshack. Their prices may be cheap, their items may feel cheap, but they dont fall apart and are still better quality than the equivalent from china,

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:38:46 pm
content: As pointed out above, the bulk of eBay sellers are using a bulk discount service. If I order from Franky who ships by the local post office in HK, it costs more but the parcel arrives in a week.BTW, the salaries of many large companies CEOs would make top premier league players pay look like minimum wage.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 07:51:04 pm
content: I watched the video and understand they tried to use RadioShack as an example... but it's a BAD EXAMPLE.RadioShack was dying long before eBay/Alibaba and Chinese ePacket shipping was nipping at it's heals. Perhaps that was the final nail in the coffin.... But many things did them in. It was the case of a BRICK & MORTAR store which lost it's focus, and it's core customer base left. They then turned into a gadget/stereo/electronic toy shop and then cell-phone reseller which happened to have some electronic bits in the back. The COST of having so many physical stores and not selling enough through them (and too little too late in the market of the gadgets) is what did it. And RadioShack never had much of an online marketing store/presence.Look at all of the other successful non-Chinese stores we have that people buy from every day, some that have physical locations (like SAYAL here in the Toronto area), or online-only like SparkFun, Element14, SpikenzieLabs, Adafruit and so on. I think many people buy from those stores because of the reputation, they know they are dealing with trustworthy companies and have quality items. Yes there are Chinese eBay sellers that can compete with them, but people do like to buy from a reputable company that has a 1-800-number you can call and get answers to questions, in English.Meanwhile....Yes the fact that I can buy a Casio watch on eBay for $25 with free shipping did tempt me. But I went to my local store and found it instead for $35, and I BOUGHT IT because: (a) I could try it on to see how it was, (b) if I liked it, I could buy it and wear it right away, (c) if there was a problem with it, I could return it easily, and (d) I was helping to keep a local store open. So I paid another $10 because of reasons a+b+c+d all combined. I can't tell you the value I placed on each reason, but it wasn't $2.50 each.As far as electronic gear, honestly how many people today buy components, fix stuff, buy kits, and so on? You think RadioShack or any brick & mortar store can survive on that market alone? Obviously not. Even large stores in my area like SAYAL are in large industrial units, with large warehouses that are bare-bones decor.... Just a big place to stock everything I would need as far as electronic components. Most of them sell to consumers but also maintenance and electronics trades-people who need a reliable nearby source of parts. You can't afford the kind of locations and stores that RadioShack had and sell items with margins of cents on the dollar.Can China even be made to play on an "equal" level with USA?Well there is a big loaded question right there. You can change shipping costs all you want. We as consumers will lose... Who will win? The Postal Service? We are not going to equalize China with the USA through shipping. There are so many other factors here that have driven manufacturing to China and why they are able to do this. Even brick & mortar stores here buy from China, they just buy in huge volumes. Same goes for online stores, which may actually act as a sort of middle-man for Chinese companies anyways. Sure you can load up taxes and shipping costs for buying foreign goods, China included. But in the end I don't think it is the solution.It also means they will find ways to cut costs even further... so if something costs $10 with free shipping, it's because $1 of that item goes to pay for the extra filtering cap or a fuse or protection in there. Instead of adding $2 shipping so you pay $12, the Chinese will charge $8 + $2 shipping.... so still costs $10. Now all they've done is transfer some of the cost to SHIPPING., while removing the protection and cheapening the product further.So you will still save money buying from China, only that the stuff will be even less safe.There has to be a better answer.... but me thinks there is a reason why the USA and most other countries allow this. They could easily stop it, but they haven't. Why?

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:04:39 pm
content: Its a good thing you bought locally. Trying to return an international shipment is a disaster if something is wrong.The chinese however have upped their game since. They now ship to local warehouses and ship from there so they can say "from the US or UK".

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:27:16 pm
content: QuoteWhen the consumers don't have enough money , if you don't make cheap products available, they'll realize this and want more money. Chaos!

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:30:01 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 18, 2016, 05:10:03 pmAn UN agency that (and whose meddling in international trade) precedes the UN by quite a few decades, that was conceived because the un-skewed trade that preceded caused massive problems that it was designed to solve, and which it did and does solve. That only 'arbitrarily' skews trade in the minds of people who refuse to look at the reasons and processes behind it.And, an agency that has no issues with countries making further special arrangements with each other, like the US did with various European nations. So I guess your own rulers don't see the problems you see or they would have done something.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:32:55 pm
content: Someone also mentioned service. How many stores these days have experienced salespeople to guide a shopper? At Home depot I can ask the older guy in plumbing how to fix this or that, get some advice on what to buy, etc. Lots of small local mom & pop stores may cost more but those folks help you. Even some electronics stores have people who can give great advice.Why do I not like BestBuy and most large chains? Because they are only there to sell and when there is nothing to compete on but price, they will inevitably lose against China and other online stores. In my area at least, they usually hire unknowledgeable people for minimum wage who can show you where to find something. If you ask them advice, they really don't know anything. They are not there to interact, help and provide value-added service.I'm not sure where RadioShack was along the lines of service, but if they made it a place for geeks to hang out... it could have become a Hotspot for the Maker movement. Imagine "RadioShack Thursdays... the geek-friendly weekly meet up" to discuss the latest gear, technology, etc. Presentations could be given by the members of the "club" and you'd rotate who gives the next topic. It could be some electronic kit, radio, new technology or other related topic. Radioshack would buy some pizzas and provide the space for the club meeting. What great marketing that would have been!By the end of the meet up, they could have some specials or a list of bits they need to build the "project" discussed in the meeting. People would likely buy it from the store right then and there... Ching ching.. cash register full! With a physical store, they had a great opportunity to use it for SO MUCH MORE. It was not Chinese cheap postage that killed Radio Shack.[ADDED:]I'm not the only one who thinks this... Apparently it was observed by others. I found this article AFTER I wrote this post which summarizes exactly my thoughts on what magic ingredients the old Radio Shack had that made it so popular. It's a good read:https://www.wired.com/2015/02/dear-radioshack-adored-love-wired/

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 08:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: NottheDan on September 18, 2016, 08:30:01 pmYes, that's part of the problem and we are working on changing it and a few other 'historic' adjustments. Stay tuned.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:13:40 pm
content: Quoteif so, he needs to give a new video, new title, new narative, new storyline, and probably a new presenter.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:19:26 pm
content: QuoteWhat? Are you saying that so many of our forum experts on postal services have all been so wrong for so many times? I thought they were quite authoritative, with facts, data, analysis, logic (or the lack of), ..., they sounded more convincing than used car salesmen,Fundamentally, the postal rates blame resides squarely on the postal services of your own country: you cannot blame the chinese for your post services having signed a contract that lost themselves money and drove jobs overseas.BTW, have you noticed that many "chinese" parcels are originated outside of china now? Hong Kong and Singapore, etc. Care to ask the guy which category those countries belong to? They may help poke another hole in his storyline.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 09:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on September 18, 2016, 09:19:26 pmOk, I get the international agreement where the receiving country delivers a package for no charge for the customer or the sending country. But what about the shipping cost for the sending country.I've literally once bought a 50 cent item on ebay from China with free shipping and received it in 10 days via air mail! (not shipping container via boat). So how does the sending Chinese company get by with such low cost shopping at their end that shipping a 50 cent item doesn't lose them money?Subsidized by Government, tax credits, ? I've asked this basic question on several boards over time and no one has posted a definitive answer.

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 10:03:27 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on September 18, 2016, 03:31:54 pmWell it still costs the same,but your customer contact advisor is a Nigerian Prince with excellent contacts inside the Nigerian banking system.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2016, 11:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 18, 2016, 05:22:22 pmBut Sparkfun and Adafruit are alive and well. Radio Shack isn't.Radio Shack died because in the modern era, selling electronic components from a chain of storefronts isn't viable in most areas, and Walmart/BestBuy killed their sales of PCs, stereos, TVs, etc. RS was NEVER a price competitor. They used to make a steady income from selling 2 1N4001s for a buck to people who need them NOW and are willing to pay a huge markup. I already miss them when doing field repairs on something and you need a replacement connector, wall wart, cable or switch RIGHT NOW in an unfamiliar area. You could almost always find an RS in the local strip mall or wherever.The area I live in once had at least 6 electronic parts jobbers within a 30 mile drive. Only one remains. The death of the TV repair industry and increasing reliability/specialization of industrial electronics drove the rest out of business. How the one remains open is beyond me. Never any customers in there and layers of dust on the stock, some of which is 30 years old....

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:08:30 am
content: The guy did a great job choosing an attention grabbing title for a video about the UPU, postage rates, and the U.S. government being stupid.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:47:41 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on September 18, 2016, 09:19:26 pmI don't think I blamed the Chinese.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 01:14:09 am
content: Indeed, it wasn't China, or cheap online competition that killed Radio Shack. It was 1950's business practices in the 21st century that doomed them.Disclaimer: I worked for Radio Shack in the mid 80's while I was in college, so some of this is personal experienceFirst of all, there was oversaturation - in my neighborhood alone, a small suburban area, NOT a major metropolitan area, we had TWO Radio Shack stores within walking distance of one another. I worked at one, my best friend at the other. Within a 20 minute drive of my home, there were at least 6 Radio Shack stores. Sometimes this worked out, at least for the company, as if we were out of stock of an item, we would call the other store and it wasn't really inconvenient for the customer to head over there. However, I have to wonder how often that customer then bothered coming back to our store. Of course, that worked both ways.Second of all - the insane business operations. EVERY customer was written up by hand. We sold computers, for goodness sake. But no, all sales tickets were hand printed. Then at the end of the say we keyed all the day's receipts into the store computer. This was long after even smaller retailers had gone to electronic cash registers and so forth. Then they tried to ride the wave of charge cards, and set quotas on everyone to get x number of credit apps per shift. Never mind it was only good at Radio Shack (and really there never were a lot of truly high ticket items - a full computer system, or the higher end stereos was about it) and the interest rates were horrible even for the times. Remember the free battery of the month club? Whenever someone came in for their free battery, we were supposed to write up a sales ticket, getting their name and address, AND try to get them to fill out a credit application. 9 times out of 10, this just pissed off the customer. That other 1 out of 10, they understood we were just doing what we were told. They still didn't take the time for the credit app. The free battery thing was one of those "Oh hey, I'm walking past the Radio Shack, let me pop in and get my battery" things, they weren't in the store shopping, they came to pop in and pop right back out again, and here we were trying to delay them with a credit card application.Thirdly - even by then, there was a distinct lack of product knowledge. There were exceptions among my coworkers, but most of them had no clue what they were selling. I don't claim to know everything, but I could talk intelligently about the electronic parts we sold, the computer systems, and stereos. We had one guy who knew pretty much all there was to know about hooking up phone equipment like autodialers and answering machines (this was just after it became legal in the US to connect your own equipment, add you own lines in your house, and competing long distance companies like MCI and Sprint were popping up). Others I worked with were just outright clueless, many times I overheard utter bullshit being spewed to a customer.And other things - I worked at the store near home over the summer, then transferred to one closer to college once classes started up. At that store, my manager was big into audio and video, and knew what he was doing. He had pretty much every combination of receiver and speaker hooked up in our store, so a customer could put together what they thought they wanted, and give it a listen, and we could maybe steer them to better speakers, or whatever. One day the district manager came by and told the store manager in no uncertain terms that ONLY the stereo system featured in the monthly flyer was to be hooked up, nothing else, and he needed to take it all down before his next visit. We had 2 boxes full of coax splitters and amplifiers, RCA cables, speaker switches, etc. When inventory came around, the store manager took one look at the boxes full of random stuff and basically said the hell with it, we're not inventorying that and putting it back on the shelves. I ended up with a box full of bits that to this day I have not fully exhausted despite giving TV coax cables to various other people as well as using them myself. What's just funny about it all is that even a store like KMart had a display with all their (crappy) car stereos hooked to any of their (also crappy) speakers so you could listen to any combo you wanted. But not Radio Shack, oh no!Oh yes, inventory - another horrible all night and into the next day manual process. The computer would print out inventory sheets, then we went around the store and counted. Marked counts on the sheets. All fine and dandy for big box items, but those pegboards full of electronic parts - and you know there was always a joker who put pack a pack of 1K resistors 4 back on the peg for 10K's. After all this, the numbers were then keyed back into the computer to generate the final inventory report. For the standalone stores or those in a strip mall, it was no big deal, because those stores could stay open as long as necessary, and open as early as necessary. But our store was in a mall. Mall leasing rules set an absolute time we could stay and get in, and also dictated that our gate had to be up and the store open to customers within a certain time of the mall opening or face fines. We had all sorts of tricks to get a jump on the inventory, like counting all the big stuff during the day. It wasn't like we were going to sell more than 1 of some stereo system in a day, so we just kept the completed sections behind the counter and if someone happened to sell one of those things, they just marked it off on the inventory sheet.In my area, I was pretty much stuck. If Radio Shack didn't have an electronic component, I had little choice but to mail order. And mail order in those days (prior to working at Radio Shack - under 18, no credit cards, no checking account) meant giving my Mom the money, getting her to write me a check, and sending it off and waiting at least 2 weeks - 3-4 days for the order to reach the company, usually on the other side of the US, a week waiting for the check to clear, and another 3-4 days for the order to come back. There was one shop nearby that carried RCA components, which was great when I built my first computer, which was all 4000 series CMOS, so I could get a few spare chips, when I could convince my Mom to drive me over there. But they were not a full service component shop, they had very little else, and even the 4000 series parts, they didn't stock much, most of the time I went there and ordered something and then had to go back a week later to pick it up. In a metro area that hosted 6 universities and the ATT/Bell Labs and plant that built among other things the first 64Kb RAM chip, it was amazing there were no electronic component sellers, at least on a consumer level.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 02:56:58 am
content: No Radio Shack in England (or rather very very few).When I grew up as a hobbiest teenager needing parts, I was lucky enough to live i the UK. The maplin catalogue was the most important thing you could have. Maplin were a tiny bit more expensive, but it came quick. Get a postal money order, mail off your order and 2-3 days later it was on your doorstep, also used Greenweld quite a bit. Once I got a moped I could actually get to Greenweld (and buy 2nds from the Vero factory), and it was quite the treasure trove.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:06:19 am
content: Tandy,as Radio Shack was known in Australia,operated as a franchise set up.Even back when they first appeared on our shores,I wondered how they survived.(It was rumoured that they were a CIA "front")Tandy tried to do everything,but were uncompetitive at all of it.Dick Smith,at the time was going "gangbusters".They had more stock,much cheaper prices,& tie-ins with the local magazines,so they could provide kits.DSE got into CB radio very early,& Tandy never caught up,By the time they got stocks,everybody & his cat were selling CBs at less than half their prices.Tandy also tried to compete on HI-FI equipment,right at the time when it went from a "geek" hobby to a mainstream thing.The big Domestic Appliance/TV stores killed them!They were left as the place you could get weird non-mainstream components,or small bubble packs of more standard parts-----good,if you just needed one or two & were a long way from Dick Smith,Altronics,Jaycar or the like.Computers looked like Tandy's "white knight" (TRS-80 et al),but the rise of the PC killed that.Dick Smith sold out to Woollies who kept things going as normal for a while.Following that,they bought up the Tandys stores closed some, & converted the rest to DSE.For some unfathomable reason,they then chucked out all the Electronics stuff,& tried to sell mobile phones & computers.Ultimately places like Harvey Norman,JB HIFI & so on took all that market segment,leaving DSE to die ignominiously.Jaycar & Altronics seem to survive OK,& still have a reasonable stock of parts.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 10:55:55 am
content: "I don't think I blamed the Chinese"Sorry. That wasn't directed at you but those ignorant "experts" we so often run into here.No amount of facts, logic, and rationale could sway those folks.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 11:02:31 am
content: "The system seems designed to minimise administative overheads and make for an efficient cross border transfer of mail. Predominantly letters and small items. "It seems to be designed to facilitate delivery of parcels internationally by making the cost of such parcels comparable across disparate economies from the sender's perspective. So someone in China may pay a comparable cost, relative to his income, to send a letter to the US, vs a US person sending that letter to China.If you didn't have that system, it would be cost prohibitive for someone in a poorer country to send a parcel to a richer country.Whether that system is fair is up to debate, but it's rationale is pretty clear to me.

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:40:33 pm
content: I agree that RadioShack is a bad example but I think some people are missing the point somewhat.Say you want an item that costs $1 from a Chinese factory.Option 1 order from a Chinese seller, they buy from the factory add 50c markup and add 50c postage. So they can sell you the item for $2.Option 2 buy locally. The item has to be sent from China using commercial shipping and import duties paid, 20c for arguments sake. Has to be held in a warehouse or shop waiting for your order, perhaps another 20c. Order is packaged by staff that have to be paid at least minimum wage and have all sorts of employment protections such as working conditions and paid sick leave. The 50c markup that the Chinese seller is content with wouldn't come close to covering these costs so lets add $1. Now lets post it, to the customer $3. Now your expected to pay $5.40 and there may be sales tax depending on where you live.If it cost the same to send locally as it does from China you might be more willing to buy it. If in our example it cost the Chinese seller $3 just like it does the local seller to post the item to you our example would be $4.50 from China or $5.40 from a local supplier, for the sake of quick delivery and convenience of returns etc many would choose the local option. That is just on a equal pricing structure, if you took into account the actual cost to send something from China has to be more than it does from one state to another in the same country then in theory someone sending a package from China should be paying more than someone sending locally.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 12:49:15 pm
content: "Order is packaged by staff that have to be paid at least minimum wage and have all sorts of employment protections such as working conditions and paid sick leave. "This goes back to a question I asked a while ago: whose fault is it that you live in a high cost country?Is it the Chinese fault that our governments mandated minimum salaries, labor protection laws, or environmental niceties?If you follow your logic, you have to conclude that it is our governments who regulated jobs out of our own people.Alternatively, you could also argue that losing such jobs is just a price to pay for those niceties.Apparently such niceties are must haves when you have the income to afford them. Some perverseness in offering them to those who cannot afford them.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 02:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: Tandy on September 19, 2016, 12:40:33 pmIn the volume game, once you have the base cost covered, the cost for an additional piece is negligible. The bulk shipper is buying up the slack at the minimum price from the Postal system. Amazon is doing likewise too in shipping out of USA. Due to even higher volume that Amazon can bring, they are able to enjoy higher priority than normal drop-shippers. The RS thing and the class 3 rate are irrelevant. Volume and cost of business are. When you have a production line running, and when the fixed cost is there, the game is to fully load up the line to the maz (= the postman instead of carrying 1 box to 1 street at 1 time, he should be carrying 100 boxes to 1 street a 1 time). In this game, there is no subsidy from developed countries to less developed countries. If Amazon was allowed to be more agreesive, and further subsidizing the expansion to Singapore like they did in the first year, they would be building up a warehouse here and doing predictive stocking up, and predictive distribution ahead of sale by now. But last 2 years, Amazon was stopped by the shareholders.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 07:15:52 pm
content: Interesting look at an issue most of us would not even have known existed. I agree with others that many factors played into the demise of Radio Shack, and they just make a good example to highlight the shipping cost issue. But this is a serious issue, especially when you consider that long story short, you have taxpayers subsidizing companies abroad while hurting their home business and economies.This is hardly logical, except when you consider that the bigger picture here is trying to level the playing field in the world economy. From a global trade standpoint and trying to bring "3rd world" economies into a competitive position, it makes sense. But it tends to stink to the high hilt when you consider this is exactly the type of thing that goes on with relatively no input from the taxpayers who subsidize it and the companies that suffer from it. Amazon gets appropriate criticism for a lot of things, but if they think it's an issue, I'm inclined to listen, they're a smart company.Radio Shack killed themselves, though. They were in the most advantaged position to ride into the information age, the maker scene, and all the technologically driven commerce we see today, but they diddled around with misguided business models and made themselves irrelevant by not staying ahead of the curve. They should have been leading the charge, but it seems like their management just was out to lunch.Like others have noted, you can still make a choice on your buying habits. As consumers, and the primary beneficiaries of our respective economies (good or bad results), we have to be smart in our buying habits. Cheaper isn't always better, especially when you look at what that mentality can lead to in the long term: WalMart, Lowes, etc. If you are in a bigger city, or a medium city, you still have choices. But in small town America, like where I'm at, Walmart, Lowes, etc is all there is. You're forced to use these retailers because there isn't any competitors. This is the reality for a lot of people. A lot people say "Just don't give them your business.", and that's fine if you live in an area that has other options, but I challenge anybody to come here to this small town and the millions just like it, and show me an alternative. Walmart used to be all about "Made in America", but they flipped the script and now the majority of that store is filled with products from China. And then you have half their workforce on some form of public assistance. And God only knows what kind of human rights or labor issues we're directly supporting by buying all these Chinese goods. Bottom line is we have to start being a lot more educated as consumers and start leveraging our power in the marketplace. It's ultimately up to the consumer what we will tolerate. As long as we keep acting in a short sighted manner and remaining ignorant about the bigger picture, we will continue to get manipulated and contribute to all sorts of issues that are not in anybody's best interests in the long term.And Radio Shack is also a good example of consumers responding appropriately. Radio Shack had it's head up it's ass for far too long and people took their business elsewhere. And I was a Rat Shack fan for years, but they lost me when they went through all those silly phases as "battery store" or "phone store" or whatever marketing failure they were on at the time. They drifted away from their core model, and in my opinion, that was the primary reason they should have been a leader on today's electronics/information market. And even Best Buy and that sort of chain...where the heck was Radio Shack during that whole boom? Like they could have gone from small shop to big box without much effort, but again it seems management was out to lunch. Although, I seem to recall they did try an entry into that segment of the market, but I don't remember what it was called. --- I looked it up...Incredible Universe. I actually went to a grand opening. From what I read, it seems like their overall vision was a bit grandiose and couldn't compete with Best Buy and such, which didn't try to turn their stores into some retail theme park mix. The place where it was located is now a Home Depot. Go figure.None the less, good video. Educational and informative.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 08:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on September 19, 2016, 11:02:31 amThat's seems as a reasonable consequence for being poor.

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 09:21:48 pm
content: I think that saying that anything "killed" Radio Shack is off-base. RS is still there online, and still has tons of stores. The ones near me seem no different than they were before they filed for bankruptcy.

author: Tandy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2016, 10:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: mathsquid on September 19, 2016, 09:21:48 pmRadioShack Corporationisbankrupt, there are still stores that carry the name RadioShack but they are run by an entirely new company called General Wierelss. General Wireless bought the trademarks and a number of store leases from the bankrupt RadioShack Corporation and continues to trade as RadioShack. They left many suppliers with $ millions unpaid debts. The new company sells a similar range of products but that is new investment, the old corporation is just going through the legal process of dying.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:06:04 am
content: "That's seems as a reasonable consequence for being poor."Not an unreasonable position to take.And that's my point earlier: we can all debate whether that's the right or fair approach tobhavebthe rich subsidize the poor. It happens that the folks at the you decided on a different path - they prioritized global access to postal services more so than the monetary aspects of things.Again, you don't have to agree that it is the right thing to do but it is not that hard to see how others might have taken that approach.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:34:44 am
content: Video probably had something to do with killing Radio Shack as well

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:31:50 pm
content: I wonder how many of those small packages from China are delivered every year by the USPS. The estimated loss of $1 per package comes directly out of the pockets of American tax payers. I wonder what percentage of American tax payers actually buy stuff from China that's sent by mail.Quote from: @rt on September 20, 2016, 11:34:44 amNot really. At least I don't think so. There's no doubt that use of the Radio Shack name did grab some attention though.Quote from: zapta on September 19, 2016, 08:13:34 pmI agree with the noble cause of supporting poor countries. However, in this case it's more like the two countries with thelargest GDPs in the Worldsupporting number three.edit: GDP not economy. Note that the EU is considered as a single entity/country. While, as the article states, "GDP is generally considered a poor figure for the purpose of making comparisons", it is something to keep in mind.

author: RGB255_0_0
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:36:39 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 20, 2016, 01:31:50 pmYou might want to change that statement.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:41:50 pm
content: "The estimated loss of $1 per package comes directly out of the pockets of American tax payers. "Someone mentioned this earlier but didn't use the exact term: marginal cost. Google that up.Essentially, it can be good business to lose money.Also, there is the concept of "social warefare".

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:46:05 pm
content: Quote from: RGB255_0_0 on September 20, 2016, 01:36:39 pmI agree.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 01:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on September 20, 2016, 01:41:50 pmThat's what I was wondering. Is this postage cost difference really enough to worry about? I'm sure actual numbers exist somewhere.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 02:17:24 pm
content: The marginal or incremental cost of delivering a piece of parcel is likely very low, once you have the infrastructure set up. That's why this is a scale business in that everyone wants to be bigger and bigger so you can spread the same fixed cost over more deliveries. Very much like the airline business where the cost to carry a passenger-mile is less than ten cents.I don't know what that 1usd figure is but ibwoukd think it is far high than the marginal cost. Let's say it is 50cents. If the postal service gets at least 51 cents for that job, it makes good business sense to have that business, even through on a fully loaded basis it is losing money on that parcel.

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 02:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on September 20, 2016, 01:31:50 pmHe was making a joke.

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 02:58:14 pm
content: to be more specific i missed the old radioshack where things were really cheap. The new one seems pricey.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 05:04:06 pm
content: Quote from: System Error Message on September 20, 2016, 02:58:14 pmWhen was Radio Shack EVER a cheap source for anything? At least for components, they were always the most expensive place to get parts. Charging $1.99 for a 555 timer chip that you could get for $0.25 from a "real" distributor. They were the go-to place when you needed a jellybean part RIGHT NOW, and didn't care about paying the huge markup, but you could always do better on price from just about anyone else....

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 05:53:02 pm
content: "When was Radio Shack EVER a cheap source for anything? "For decades until the late 1980s and early 1990s. They started their life as a catelog company and then bnm store on fancy electronics.There were lots of deals to be had then.They basically lost its reasons to exist.