crying Newbie - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2018, 07:13:58 pm
content: Dear all,I have had a bad experience.Today It is some kind of “damage control”2 days ago a water pipe burst in my house and of course spray water ower my new developed electronic lab (note my amateur lab).I awaited 2 days before power up my gear.My old FLUKE 79iii was not working correct. It was flicking around in the different UIR modes.My new purchase HAKKO FX-888D was making some disturbing noise that remind me kind of sparks noise. I think it is busted!My new RIGOL DS1054X seemed to work.My new SIGLENT SDM3065X seemed to work also.My biggest concern is the expensive RIGOL and SIGLENT if there are OK or not.During their boot sequinse they are not making any error code!So my big Q should I be nervous?Please advise

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2018, 07:18:32 pm
content: Open up the stuff and dry them carefully. Remove batteries immediately if water gets inside electronic stuff.As long as there's no power applied, water doesn't cause much damage to the electronics.Powering on while there is still moisture inside can easily ruin the equipment.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2018, 07:24:02 pm
content: Two days isn't nearly enough time for water that has beensprayedover (and into) equipment to evaporate of its own accord.You shouldn't have powered up anything without checking for water ingress first! I suggest you don't power anything else up before you have taken the covers off and checking for signs of water.Even if something apparently powers up ok, tap water on device pins etc. will cause electrolysis and corrosion. I suggest you check things that you already powered up too.You should also remove batteries from portable equipment that gets wet immediately!

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 05:32:42 am
content: excellent advise. Bob Pease once called Tektronix about cleaning a test equipment PCB in the shower. They replied they have an old dishwasher that they stick their boards into when they get a return or do service on a customers unit.Key, is drying out, and removing any contaminants, "yucky" stuff from the water. If yucky stuff just use some board cleaner or wash...or 99% alcoholTry putting next to a heater or central heating outlet. Around 100ºF to 150ºF (tek uses 200ºF) with plastics that will help dry out..

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 06:13:40 am
content: Quote from: TheNewLab on September 20, 2018, 05:32:42 amThey missed to tell other "simple" things: old dishwasher is fed with deionised water that comes out of reverse osmosis filtration system. Then for sure they have ultrasonic and alcohol baths for "final rinse" and quick dry. If Tektronix wash PCB's in tap water - I will never ever buy any piece of equipment from them

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:14:23 am
content: You should NOT power up things that have been in water.Its not the water that kills electronics, it just causes nasty effects to electronics when power is applied. In a mild case the electrolysis between pins on boards could cause corrosion that eats away a trace, pad or pin. In a bad case the water becomes conductive enough to let currents flow where they should not and this can result in 230V mains input finding its way into a 5V supply rail and blowing up every chip connected to it.The right step is to as quickly as possible remove power and batteries(Includes internal backup batteries), then in the near future open up the equipment and dry it out really really well. If the water brought in some dirt along with it then everything must also be cleaned first. Best is to put the PCBs into a ultrasonic cleaner, but you could just use distilled water and a toothbrush to do it, maybe add a little bit of dish soap but then rinse it off well with more clean distilled water. Dry the boards in an oven for a while to get the water out, then wash with alcohol to get the last remaining parts of water out, dry it with towels and then in the oven for some more to be sure.Even if it powers on and works right now does not grantee it will still work 1 week later when the corrosion gets to it.By doing this you could even save equipment that was submerged in water for days (Provided there are is electromechanical stuff in there to gum up with water and dirt).I understand that you are a bit hesitant to open up some of the expensive equipment, but you already voided your warranty by dunking it in water. The stuff should be easy to take apart and reassemble for any competent electronics engineer, just keep track of all the screws and you can't mess it up. Laptops and tablets these days are MUCH harder to take apart than test equipment and yet even non engineers sometimes have a go at fixing them. As such an invested electronic hobbyist you have to get comfortable with taking apart your equipment since you will keep your gear for many years, far out of warranty and it will likely break at some point. Getting it repaired will cost a pretty penny, due to its age it might be a bit obsolete compared to brand new equipment at the time so it might not even make sense to repair, so you have to have fix it yourself. Also you can sometimes score broken old equipment really cheap and fix it yourself to get a very capable piece of gear without breaking the bank.EDIT: Fixing gear yourself also teaches you a lot about how it works and shows you some design tricks that you can use elsewhere in your own projects.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:18:30 am
content: Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 06:13:40 amPease is a autor of a famous book "The Art of Electronics". He write about his own positive experiece with Calgonit tablets and his common dishwasher at his home

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:42:33 am
content: Quote from: 001 on September 20, 2018, 07:18:30 amYes I know who he is or to be exact - was. Are you sure his chemistry was as good as his electronics?Calgonit contains Sodium citrate and Carbonic acid. It's pH is 10. If he would wrote in the book that jumping off the cliff is good for your PCB's - you would do that? Sometimes you shall use your head or just check what electronics industry isactuallydoing.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 07:53:06 am
content: You may get lucky, but corrosion is cruel and make take a while to finally appear. If you're insured, I'd consider it all junk and write it off. Wet precision instruments are just wet instruments.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:00:18 am
content: Quote from: uc on September 19, 2018, 07:13:58 pmThe first think you should consider, before anything else, is if any of it is covered by any insurance policies you have. Hopefully you can make a claim and get everything replaced, with only the excess to pay.Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 06:13:40 amYou're right, ideally deionised water should be used, but in reality plain tap water will work. Once it's dry the tiny amount ofdissolvedsalts aren't a problem, because they need water to be conductive or corrosive.The salts in the water are no longer dissolved, once it's dry and just sit harmlessly on the surface of the PCB and components.It wouldn't surprise me if some electronics companies just used a dishwasher fed by tap water many years ago, but I'd think they would have stopped this long ago.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:13:33 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 20, 2018, 08:00:18 amDuring servicing, Tektronix used to clean scopes by spraying them with water.https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/saturday-afternoon-give-your-oscilloscope-a-good-wash-downISTR there are videos of that process.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:05:46 am
content: @ucSorry to hear of your catastrophe.The SDM3065X getting wet is of concern and I would contact your supplier for advice for internal cleaning. It's internal sensitivity is much greater than a scope so any internal contamination with affect accuracy and stability.Without official guidance of how to clean the internals, a soft bush and IPA or distilled water to dislodge any deposited salts etc and then dry on a sunny window sill for a few days before reassembly.Maybe any water ingress is very localized so there's only need to treat obviously water spotted areas.Good luck, I have my fingers crossed for you.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:17:02 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on September 20, 2018, 08:00:18 amOnce I was rinsing "sticky keys" PC keyboard in kitchen sink. LED drivers ans similar "dumb boards" w/o sensitive circuits most likely will survive such as wellHowever... would you wash PCB's of your electrometer or >= 6 digit DVM same way?

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:21:38 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2018, 08:13:33 amAgain "small details" are omitted1) It was "Back in the 1960s and 1970"2) “[the instruments] are easy to wash and no particular precautions, other than those applying to vacuum tube type instruments, need be observed“Pay close attention tovacuum tube type instruments

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 09:31:02 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2018, 08:13:33 amNow that's a neat article, had no idea it was standard practice to hose down CRT scopes like that.My Agilent MSO6000 needs a bit of a clean on the knobs. Those rubberised knobs seam to be real dirt magnets, but that's easy to fix, just pull them off and throw them in a tub of water.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 10:08:01 am
content: For cleaning knobs, pull them off, throw them in a sock, close with cable tie, chuck in with the laundry, much less messing about then going at them with a toothbrush.A flooded lab is almost always an insurance claim in the first instance.Regards, Dan.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 11:00:55 am
content: Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 09:21:38 amThe "omitted" details are prominent in the link; if someone can't be bothered to RTFLink, on their own head be it.QuoteEr no. Did you read the link; it contains "Chuck Phillips is pictured at right washing a 7000." The 7000 series is transistorised.For the avoidance of doubt, I don't recommend this procedure on a modern scope

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 11:53:28 am
content: For the too-lazy-to-click-the-link people:

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 01:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2018, 11:00:55 amRTFmypost: I did read the article. Others may not. That's why I made it clear for those who plan to give their electronics "good wash". Don't forget that this is forum, not various RTFLink bookmark collection.Quote from: PA0PBZ on September 20, 2018, 11:53:28 amExactly what I am talking about. People are lazy and most of them will not read linked article.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 01:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 01:08:16 pmSince you chose to omit the inconvenient-to-you context, I'll point out you "missed"the picture of thetransistorised7000 series scope being washedthe text stating "A photo of Charles (Chuck) cheerfully washing a Tek 7000 scope back in 1972 has survived"That doesn't fit with your statement "Pay close attention tovacuum tube type instruments" (your emphasis).

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 01:46:32 pm
content: I did open the link, and the following paragraph made me chuckle:"1960s oscilloscope being cleaned in the shower and dried in a kitchen ovenwith the missus out on a shopping excursion." Italics mine.It made me chuckle because that is what I have done some electronics mischief in the past.But back to the OP's problem:-Indeed, an insurance claim would be the best solution.-If no insurance claim is feasible, the following approach has worked for me a couple of times:1) Drench the soaked instrument in deionized water. Let it settle for a while.2) Drench the instrument in alcohol. Isopropil is fine, but I like denatured 96% Ethyl better, I know it has great water affinity.3) Let it dry 24 hours.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2018, 08:24:35 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 20, 2018, 01:34:12 pmWhat statement? - It iscitationfrom that article! Did you even read it?Tek 7000 scope indeed have vacuum tube inside: CRT. RTFWikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tubeI am curious - what you want to prove? That you can wash modern electronics using pressure washer just because it worked in year 1972 and tek 7000 scope survived?BTW it's not even funny anymoreIf you really did not get it, correction in red:Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 09:21:38 am

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 01:35:25 am
content: I have used ordinary tap water for bulk cleaning of an old TV chassis heavily contaminated with dust anddirt. The trick is to not let that water evaporate on its own, but to rinse it off with something like isopropyl alcohol.In my experience, there are 3 main considerations:1. Removing contaminants2. Allowing to dry -thoroughly. (I put my TV aside and forgot about it for 3-4 weeks). As stated above, 2 days for enclosed equipment iswaytoo short.3. Checking for effects on switch mechanisms, grease and other susceptible mechanical parts.I remember the Serviceman column in EA once describing the repair of an electronic organ where some rodents had found their way inside via the foot pedal opening and, among other things, urinating over some PCBs. The first stage of cleaning was to remove the affected boards and hose them down. His argument: that the water would be far less damaging than the urine. I forget if there was a rinse of something like isopropyl alcohol - but I do remember there was a long period given for drying ... and that was on PCBs removed from the unit.Even if you do aim to get everything dried out - how much time will it take you? Even if successful, you may still be faced with calibration issues and/or latent problems that may lie dormant and come back to bite you in the arse somewhere down the track.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:07:05 am
content: Quote from: ogden on September 20, 2018, 07:42:33 amHmm. Who to believe, a dead jolly old man, quick to help, with a worldwide reputation in electronics, called on to consult by all sorts of people or a grumpy old man with a reputation for being acerbic and ungrammatical on electronics fora? Hmmm, so difficult to decide.Na, not really. I'd side with old Bob. Especially as he used to take stuff from his dishwasher and actually measure it in rigs where he was looking to detect femtoamp level leakage currents. Likehere. Kind of suggests it works, doesn't it?

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 06:51:59 am
content: Quote from: 001 on September 20, 2018, 07:18:30 amYou get your authors mixed up. Pease is has nothing to do with AOE.Troubleshooting analog circuits is one of his books:https://www.amazon.com/Troubleshooting-Analog-Circuits-Design-Engineers/dp/0750694998Also maybe a not best reference what is considered safe practices today as he died on a car crash driving his 1969 VW beetle, allegedly without safety belts.Actually I have washed dozens of "modern" boards with hot tap water and dishwasher soap.(used pressurized air to dry, give a good rinse with IPA followed by another air blast and the board was ready for operation in 15 minutes, usually no need for oven dry..)

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 09:32:22 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 21, 2018, 04:07:05 amGetting personal, huh? Do you know that not everybody speak native english as you? Maybe you just did not findyourforum yet? What about this one?https://www.writingforums.org/QuoteWell, that article does not even contain words "water" or "washing". All I find is talk about DIP packages"Very good way" to learn how to wash modern electronics using pressure washer, tap water and Calgonit. You shall give your hotline number so forum readers can seek for help or get contacts of your lawyer .Electronics and materials are changed. You cannot say blanket statement anymore "any tap water is good for electronics" just because for Bob Pease it worked. One of problems is that most PCB's today are manufactured with no-clean flux and they are never washed after soldering. That flux, ready to soak every salt that comes near it, is still there on the board. Second obvious problem - small pitch components, especially BGA's.There's similar discussion, BTW Tektronix practice is mentioned as well:http://www.circuitinsight.com/programs/50605.htmlArticle:https://www.embeddedarm.com/blog/deionized-water-the-gold-standard-for-electronics-cleaning/ Excerpt from originalgood wash for your oscilloscope:I spoke about this with a chemical engineer and he said the crux is the water and the detergent.The water should be the purest you can get, meaning demineralized, deionized, osmosis-treated, i.e.the stuff that does not conduct electricity! Professional window cleaners sell it by the gallon. The detergent should be mild and guaranteed to not leave deposits.

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 11:00:15 am
content: Back in the seventy's I used hot water and fairy liquid to clean off an old style TV pcb which had been leaked all over by a failing electrolytic capacitor. The manufacturer for some reason had mounted the capacitor upside down on the chassis frame so that any leak automatically covered the board below it. The fault had been a rolling picture and the electrolyte had formed a resistive path across the surface of the pcb. The hot water plus mild detergent treatment cured the problem. Without knowing how wet the instrument gear got inside or whether anything other than water added itself and how long it remained waterlogged it is difficult to recommend much. If the enclosed test gear still meets it's self calibration and has been dried out thoroughly, warm or hot area, for a couple of days it should be OK. Any easily accessible items using hot water and a mild detergent should be OK BUT make sure the items are thoroughly dry before powering them up again. Maybe a few days after the wash and brush up.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 11:17:54 am
content: Usually the real gotcha with this stuff is pots and switches, sometimes connectors, they tend to go intermittent when all the lubrication has been washed out and replaced with mud.The other 'fun' is high impedance nodes in things like scope front ends, and especially electrometer front ends (Like say condenser mic front end amps), it takes remarkably little when dealing with 10GOhms in parallel with 30pF to spoil your day.That said, I have done the dishwasher thing, on a modern board (Known to be built with water washable flux), and followed up by DI water and alcohol, and it was fine. The Dishwasher (No Calgone!) dealt with most of the flux and the DI water rinse got the dissolved solids. There were however no switches or pots on that board.Regards, Dan.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 12:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: JohnPen on September 21, 2018, 11:00:15 amRight. Try the same with RF boards of modern spectrum analyzer, results will differ for sureI washed PCB in kitchen sink as well, but it does not mean that it can be done with any board. You shall understand what you are doing.Seems, thatsome trollsone particular troll in this forum just have pathological drive to insult others by all means disregarding facts that disprovetheirhis position.

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 03:21:29 pm
content: Dear all thanks for your support.Some feedback for you guys,I have not power up my equipment, agin, as your advice.I have contact my insuring company and that road could be another chapter.But I have open up the FLUKE 79iii and clean the board with alcohol. I did find some deposit that must be old and not related to my water problem. Now it works fine. I learn a lot I am “chicken out” to do the same action with my RIGOL DS1054X.And especial the more sensitive SIGLENT SDM3065X, refer to our Mr. tautech commet.I think I will await the reply from my insurance company.Take care.//uc

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 03:33:18 pm
content: Quote from: uc on September 21, 2018, 03:21:29 pmI would be careful mentioning your equipment starting and seemingly working to the insurance company. They may easily mistake the equipment for non defective, "mistake" meaning it's the cheapest route for them. It really isn't unreasonable to claim cleaning and calibration costs for everything that has been wet and that means most of it is written off. It turning on isn't any guarantee it still functions as intended short or long term.Of course, any self respecting insurance company will try to convince you that drying the equipment and using it as is is just fine and that they really won't and don't cover more than that. Most will try anything to avoid a payout.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:00:33 pm
content: Be cautious in what you discuss with the insurance company. They may well claim that any damage to your instruments was due to improper post damage care, such as turning on prior to proper cleaning and drying.As to the arguments on how to clean that have come in this forum I will add a vote to the it varies and you have to know what you are working with.Vacuum tube gear. No, not necessarily good for dishwashing/spray cleaning. Paper capacitor packages. Bakelite junction strips and sockets. Many open switches. Many moisture traps.60s transistor gear. Possibly a golden age for power cleaning, but there are many traps here too.I think we can all agree that residues from cleaning are possibly evil, that dried salts can collect moisture from the air and lead to corrosion and/or leakage paths. Many of us can tell many stories of successful cleaning of boards by the Pease method (I have even cleaned boards along with the dishes on occasion), and many of us can tell horror stories of cleanings that went wrong. Like one of mine where schmutz left between layers of a multi-layer board at manufacturer collected moisture during a cleaning that then survived more than one bake out cycle. Made a battery that played hob with circuit operation.Many of the differences in experience may result from the vast differences in water quality around the world. Where I currently live dissolved salts in my domestic water are a few dozen parts per million. At my previous location they were measured in parts per thousand. Tektronix location in Portland probably had some of the better water around. But I would have guessed that Pease location in the Bay area would have been closer to the other end of the scale.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:03:44 pm
content: I frequently wash dirty boards out in the sink with dish soap and warm water. I normally let it dry for several days by a heat register though, or if I'm in a hurry I go over it with a hair dryer or put it in the oven on warm for a while.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 21, 2018, 04:03:44 pmThe problem is what happens if the equipment goes faulty in 15 or 30 months due to lingering. Will the insurer cover it? I can assure you they won't.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:14:18 pm
content: Insurance is a different matter. If I were going to deal with insurance I would want the gear to be professionally refurbished, or declared a total loss and then buy it back from the insurance company for salvage value and repair it myself.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:20:03 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 21, 2018, 04:14:18 pmExactly that.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 04:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 21, 2018, 04:20:03 pmIndeed.Also expect that next year's premium will be higher.And make sure you actually are covered - the Ts&Cs may "require" you to have declared high value, sets, and business items separately. The insurance company will use any and evey means to avoid paying out.(Tip with any insurance: only skim what is covered, but do carefully read the detailed exclusion clauses - and understand the circumstances in which each clause could bite you)

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 05:03:06 pm
content: I wash boards in various kinds of water depending on how many times I need to wash it and what type of equipment it's from. I add some Formula 409 to the mix. Sometimes I will use other cleaners instead.I scrub the boards with a relatively soft bristle dishwasher brush from Ikea.After rinsing I shake the boards to sweep most of the water off. Then I use a washcloth to dab off any remaining water that is accessible.The boards are then placed in front of a dehumidifier. Warm, dry, turbulent air will dry it out relatively quickly.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 05:07:05 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 21, 2018, 04:35:59 pmIf the premium's higher next year because of this you need a better insurer.

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2018, 05:33:32 pm
content: Decades ago I bought a surplus HP 524A tube type frequency counter (with the neon counting columns for displays) that seemed to have about a million tubes and consumed 600 watts from the A.C. line! While bringing it home on a winter day with the roads covered with slushly snow, the tarp covering the counter blew off and I didn’t notice that until the counter was totally soaked with water contaminated with road salt and all sorts of oil and other crud. Traveling at about 60MPH really forced all that water into every nook and cranny of the instrument.I knew that HP/Tektronix did wash their equipment with water followed by several other steps to complete the cleaning process. I modified their process and actually used a garden hose to spray every part of the unit, then used a lot of alcohol, then blew as much off as I could with a hair dryer on low heat. This was a military unit so the transformers were sealed which greatly helped plus I removed the frequency standard and cleaned that by hand. The only parts that seemed to suffer were some cardboard tubes covering some electrolytics so you couldn’t accidently touch them and get shocked but they had nothing to do with operation. After letting it set next to a heat source for a few days and re-lubing switches, I tried it and it worked and continued working for a few years until I upgraded and got rid of it.Just last week I cleaned a circuit board that was contaminated by a leaky NiCad battery with water, vinegar, alcohol, and a heat gun on low. If you are careful and after getting a piece of equipment really clean you let it dry properly, you will probably be in good shape. Sometimes you have to totally dismantle items like the rubber button switch pads on a front panel because they can really trap any water that seeps into them, and carefully clean under ICs. If you haven’t cleaned something using this process before, it might be a last gasp effort. If the unit was on when it got soaked or it was turned on without cleaning, a LOT of stuff could short out and the unit may not be repairable. But if it’s already totally dead and you've exhausted all other options, hey, what do you have to lose?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2018, 07:39:28 pm
content: I did hint on this before, but I probably didn't make myself clear enough. Don't touch any equipment you want to make an insurance claim for. You could still claim for working items, if there's evidence they've been wet, because it's reasonable to believe they've been damaged and will fail in future.I repeat,if it's covered by insurance, don't make any attempt to fix it yourself. Make a claim and get it repaired professionally or replaced, depending on what's more economical, which will probably be the latter.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 05:06:10 am
content: When my friend had a house fire that caused smoke damage everywhere, the insurance paid for the replacement of all of the appliances but they let him keep the old stuff that had been written off. It's worth discussing at some point, if the equipment got wet then insurance should cover the replacement cost, but you should be able to buy it back at salvage value which may be next to nothing. Then you can try to fix it yourself.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 06:24:35 am
content: Quote from: james_s on September 23, 2018, 05:06:10 amIt will depend on the insurance company - but buying the salvage saves them the hassle of disposing of it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 03:24:44 pm
content: Until they actually pay out, you still own the equipment. It's definitely worth talking to them about it.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 04:49:35 pm
content: Start watching Louis Rossman.You shouldn't clean your board before making a record of every single point where corrosion has occurred.

author: uc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2018, 03:35:45 pm
content: Dear Mr Scram.You are right about my biggest concern. When will the problem start???Dear Al:Another Q: Is my Equipment a: -1 “Low end” or 2 -“mid end” or -3 “high end”?My Tip: It is probably a “Low end” when a customer talking to insurance company. Prove me wrongI think the cost for cleaning the equipment and do calibration is very high. Without knowing, I think the cost for a Pro…is about USD >150/hour so say >USD 300 to fix my RIGOL DS1054X and SIGLENT SDM3065X.Any comments?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2018, 11:26:39 pm
content: Yes the insurance company would almost certainly declare the equipment a total loss, in which case you should be paid the pre-damage value of said equipment. You can then either use that money to buy replacement equipment or in many cases you can buy back the damaged stuff at salvage value and fix it yourself. If you manage to fix it then pretty much any use you get out of it is free.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2018, 05:22:19 am
content: But how does the insurance company determine the value of it? Here they would often want a repair quote from an authorized service center. If its reasonably new a receipt of how much it cost.This sounds reasonable for a TV but what about if i wanted to make a insurance claim that water poured over my HP 89410A (10MHz VSA). There is no Keysight service center in my country so the heavy boatanchor would have to be shipped off, it might be obsolete so questionable if they still fix them (Or would want to when they hear its full of water). Its pretty old so i can't get the price of it new while used prices for the thing on the internet can range from few 100s of dollar barings to a few grand. But i did buy it on ebay so i can sort of come up with a receipt.But then say my Agilent 1134A (7GHz active probe) probe was also next to it and got the water. Keysight probably doesn't fix these since they are not very serviceable and i bought it off a guy directly so there is no receipt. They are discontinued so you can't buy a brand new one anymore, while the newer B replacement costs over 7 grand new. Surely they wouldn't pay me 7 grand in exchange for a photo of what looks like a wet piece of cable.I have quite a lot of equipment but i was never sure how id make an insurance claim on it if something bad would happen to it. Like a lighting strike hits the pole just outside the house and blows half of it up.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2018, 06:23:17 am
content: It's quite common to use sale prices of similar gear on ebay or used equipment dealers. The only direct experience I've had was with a car which was quite a rare configuration of an otherwise relatively common car. They looked all over the country for comparable cars to base the value on, failing to find anything that qualifies they hired an appraiser who told them it was worth pretty much exactly what I said it was.I would expect them to give you a lowball offer and then you'd scour ebay sold items for comparable equipment and in most cases a decent insurance company will cave and pay out as long as the amount you're demanding is not completely obscene.If you have a lot of equipment you want to insure, take detailed photos of it, record model and serial numbers, make a note of anything unique about the specific equipment. Save any receipts you have, save any sold listings you happen to come across. It's not always trivial but it happens every day, there are people out there who's whole job is to assess the value of just about anything.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2018, 09:41:22 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on September 26, 2018, 06:23:17 amIt'd be safe to assume they're going to lowball you the first time. It's what they do.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:36:14 am
content: I hope your policy covers the equipment. I've come across several home and contents insurance policies that get a bit particular once you step outside the regular household stuff like a fridge, lounge, clothing, etc. There is sometimes an allowance of X amount for things like collections and hobbies, but if you have more than that, you have to detail what it is you want covered. They then calculate an extra component for your premium.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 02:41:43 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on September 28, 2018, 02:36:14 amIn that case it's time to get creative. An oscilloscope is a terrible yet expensive radio. A multimeter is a battery tester. A soldering iron is a wildly ineffective clothes iron or some strange cooking implement.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 05:18:41 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 28, 2018, 02:41:43 amI did listen to radio on my spectrum analyzer by connecting a speaker to the detector output BNC on the back. Works rather well actually.There are also often limits to how much they pay up. We didn't read the fine print carefully enough and we had lightning blow up the control electronics in the heat pump outside. There is a lot in there including a 4kW VFD to run the compressor at variable speed, the repair bill ended up to 1400€ but then the insurance company said that they only cover up to 1000€ so the other 400€ was from our pocket. Still better than nothing but we went to a different insurance company after that and clearly asked them about this coverage amount upfront(I think it is 20 grand now).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 07:19:16 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on September 28, 2018, 02:41:43 amThere can be disadvantages if they spot that and deny the claim.Over here when you take out insurance ofanysort, they often ask whether you have ever had an insurance claim refused. If you answer "yes", then the cherry-picking algorithm comes into effect.If you didn't disclose such a "material fact", then you would pay the insurance fee and get an insurance document. But if you had to make a claim, at that point they would look at your history, see you had lied when taking out the insurance, and declare the policy void. Bit awkward if that is travel insurance

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2018, 07:26:20 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 28, 2018, 07:19:16 amI assumed it was pretty obvious that I was joking and that I'm not advocating insurance fraud. If there was any doubt: don't commit insurance fraud.