Inkjet Printers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 08:54:13 am
content: Who ever invented the inkjet and thought it was a perfect thing for casual users who rarely print things should be shot.I have just spend another several hours of my life trying to coax an inkjet (in fact, several inkjets from my stockpile, going through them to find just ONE that I could get to function properly) so my mum could print some photos, as she needs to do a couple times a year (for reasons unimportant). Cleaning cycle after cleaning cycle, cleaning contacts and nozzles on HP carts, cleaning cycles and dripping alcohol into brother cartridge ports, using all manner of ideas to coax a brand new HP cartridge apparently dry and clogged from the factory into actually, you know, working.My favourite part was where I finally got one genuine black HP cartridge flowing, actually printed one page perfectly, and then the printer decided the cartridge, the full cartridge, was magically no longer valid, not just invalid but "not intended for this printer", despite the fact that it's exactly the right cartridge.Finally, touch wood, I have coaxed both the colour and black cartridges into enough life to give a fair rendition of a realistic colour print on the HP, if that will last longer than the ink takes to wear off my hands, is anybody's guess.Inkjets have precisely two things going for them; firstly, they are small and cheap, unlike most colour lasers which are big and expensive, and second they contain lots of useful parts which can be liberated when you get so fed up with them that they take flying lessons out the nearest window./Rant

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 09:03:42 am
content: Chuck the lot and pick up an old mono laser on ebay. The likes the of a HP4250 is built like a tank. 20k pages before these been a refill on a large toner cartridge.Tell the mother to get her photos printed in a shop, does not cost much and quality will be better.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 09:07:54 am
content: Yes I have two mono lasers on the go at any one time for my own purposes, they are cheap and reliable.And yes, I probably should just give her a USB stick and tell her to go down the shop next time!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 09:18:38 am
content: Good advice, been there myselfMy last surviving inkjet plonker gets used as a black and white printer,the dead FULL colour cartridge/s stay in there just so the pos works with the black cartridgeThey saw us coming when they released inkjet printers and half assed printer drivers

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 09:28:09 am
content: A printers sole purpose is to test how much frustration a human can take.Now think of all the people servicing printers as their full-time job...

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 10:26:45 am
content: Not to play down your problems with your inkjet printers guys, just chiming in to share my experiences on the opposite. I've been using Canon PiXMA inkjet photo printers for some 13 years now and never had a single clogged nozzle. They often sit unused for months/half a year on end and then print just fine when needed, after they finish their (admittedly long) maintenance routines.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 10:47:07 am
content: I once owned a Canon Pixma, it refused to scan a document to USB because the printing nozzle had "expired".For 4 years no I have an Epson. Not a single issue... yet.Was Epson the first to break the Ink Mafia Omerta with their EcoTank printer?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 10:57:31 am
content: Quote from: Towger on June 01, 2017, 09:03:42 amI agree. Inkjet printers are a rip-off. I haven't used one in years. It's much better value to go to a print shop for occasional colour prints.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:16:01 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 01, 2017, 10:47:07 amRight, that's the only reason I had to ditch my first Pixma (and replaced it with another...) but it was printer only (no scanner) model. Indeed, their print heads keep track of the number of dots they spat out in their lifetime and then shoot themselves in the head as they reach their "projected life expectancy" (read: when Canon think it's really high time for you to get a new one). Of course, assuming typical workload, by the time it happens, the prices and availability of the replacement heads makes the repair non-economical. That's a bit low, I agree and if they even refuse to allow to use the scanner in the relevant models (my second one has a scanner built-in), that's just outrageous. Wasteful also, as their machines are of quite high quality and well-engineered.Fun fact: they use a "dual-chamber" ink cartridges, with a liquid ink and sponge sections and employ a kind of a hybrid low-ink detection system, based on a combination of optical sensing (for the liquid ink section) and dot-counting (after what the sponge absorbed is all that's left). Apparently, they got sued by some people who complained that the printer driver forced them to replace the tank while there was still some reasonable amount of ink still left in the sponge. Canon's solution: now they tell you that the "Ink in the tank this or that hasprobablyrun out" or something to that effect

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:19:00 am
content: I haven't had an inkjet printer in 20 years...Laser all-in-one is the way to go.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:21:11 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 01, 2017, 10:57:31 amUnless you, like me, enjoy printing photos at home and consider it a part of your hobby. Also, you have full control over the choice of the medium you print on. You can go as far as tweaking your printouts to the color temperature of the light you use to illuminate the prints on your walls. Then you just accept that, as a hobby, it has to cost more than the commercial solution

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:22:33 am
content: Quote from: P90 on June 01, 2017, 11:19:00 amFor youGo ahead and print a gallery-quality photo on a gallery-quality paper on your laser printer

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:37:19 am
content: Quote from: Zbig on June 01, 2017, 11:22:33 amI suppose I should say a laser for the average user...Well if you need a photo inkjet for a specific task, then by all means, knock yourself out... LOLIf I require an occasional color print or two, I just go down to my father in-law's and waste his ink... LOL

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:45:38 am
content: I believe HP uses water-based inks. On the few that I've had to struggle with, steaming the printhead briefly in boiling water seems to work. They're not good for CIS conversions either, since they use thermal heads which are easily damaged by running dry (could be deliberate...)Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 01, 2017, 10:47:07 amCommercial/industrial large inkjets have always used bulk ink and piezoelectric printheads (also used by Epson), and people have been converting Epsons to CIS long before they came out with EcoTank.

author: hamdi.tn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 10:15:54 pm
content: anyone can explain to me why ink cost that much compared to dirt cheap printerall the time i end up throwing the printer and bying new one coz it cost less than refill. this is evil.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 10:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: hamdi.tn on June 01, 2017, 10:15:54 pmThe printer is free. It uses special ink cartridges. That's where the profit is: expendables. Been that way in industry for many years. I could get a $million instrument for "free" so long as I got locked into a reagent contract. The printer itself is a one-time purchase. There is minimal longer-term profit. Analogy: software by subscription.John

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on June 01, 2017, 10:48:59 pmor...Hardware By DECEPTIONThe'cheaper to buy a new printer'scam has been going strong for what... 20 years?Disgusting to think what ratio of UNNECESSARY computer related waste that dumped printers occupy, in some countries back yardsI see lots of them here in peoples front yards, waiting for hard waste pickupsI bet most of them work perfectly, but fail in the-one click to print-'occasional use' functiondue to an empty cartridge, paper jams,badly scripted USB drivers supplied with bloatware,screwed drivers due to some Fupdateor some dud 'free' anti-virus programgoing into a processes lockdown tantrum.The -All In One- printers are a total wank, and I refuse to buy one at any price,who needs ANOTHER scanner when current scanner functions, and all the customer needs is just ANOTHER printer that works 'occasionally' (lol)I don't need an -All In One- printer which resembles a childrens toy clothes iron press

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 12:44:41 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on June 01, 2017, 11:05:49 pmI'm quite happy with my Brother all-in-one monochrome laser printer that I've had for 10 years. I use it to make photocopies all the time, without having to go through the computer. Toner is inexpensive for it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 01:00:28 am
content: I gave up on inkjet printers around 10 years ago because I'd spend 50 bucks on a stupid ink cartridge, use it once or twice and then find it was plugged up the next time I needed it. Bought a color laser printer off of craigslist and never looked back.Inkjets print much nicer photos but it's not often that I need to do that.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 01:11:32 am
content: The next whatever type printer I buy WILL be researched beforehand, more than any other gear of interest.I have better things to do than waste time doing 'printer support' every time someone needs to do a 'quick'or 'occasional' one page print

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 02:53:42 am
content: Still using dot matrix ribbon printing. It's slow, but it works, and it's a tank. There is no screwing around. If the machine has drivers, and you have paper, throw it in, start the print, and it will finish it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 03:10:19 am
content: I think the last time I used an inkjet printer was sometime in the late 1990's. Since then, I've only ever used laser printing.Sure, technology and ink formulations are probably much better than they were then, but they are still plagued with problems for the light-duty user. Clogged nozzles, alignment issues and maintenance/cleaning routines which take considerable time and waste a lot of ink.I use a Brother HL-2250DN and while it has been superseded by newer models, it's still a great little printer. I pay under AUD$100 for a high-yield toner cartridge which gives me around 3000 prints which works out to be about 3 cents per page. The only maintenance required was the paper pick-up rollers needed replacing, which is required on every printer without a tractor feed at some point.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 03:23:22 am
content: Hate ink jets, been an advocate of mono lasers to the family, and get colour printing done in a shop.However the kids have hit that stage in school where they need to print colour at home. Long story short, the Fuji CP225W is a sub AUD$150 colour laser printer. Not an option for colour photos, but at this price who needs to screw around with ink!Check it outhttps://www.binglee.com.au/fuji-xerox-cp225-w-colour-printer

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 03:42:44 am
content: Quote from: ludzinc on June 02, 2017, 03:23:22 ambuy them a monochrome laser printer and a box of artist's color markers... LOL

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 03:53:25 am
content: I got rid of my HP paintjet and good riddance.I bough this guy:https://www.amazon.com/Brother-HL-3170CDW-Wireless-Networking-Replenishment/dp/B00BQU141C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496375220&sr=8-1&keywords=brother+hl-3170cdwOk, so it's a 200$ color laser and a little big, but, quiet, no ink cleaning, double sided printing, and, youcan resetthe toner cartridges toner level counter from within the printer menu, no software, allowing you to use all the toner left right until then end without worrying about a print-head drying out just to be trashed.Though the toner costs, I've printed far more on this printer with the toner which came with it than all those stupid paint cartridges which needed replacement. The only word of warning, if you want your printer to last forever with perfect prints, only replace toner cartridges with originals from brother. Any third party compatible refiled junkWILLtrash your printer.It's a winner for the price and I will never touch a paint jet again in my life. It also prints great on regular office copy paper, though I like using the super bright white copy paper from HP. No need for photo quality paper.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 04:10:42 am
content: All inkjet printers are garbage. I only use monochrome laserjets. Screw color. One for letter size (hp 2035n)and another for 11x17 schematics and other drawings I need to read (hp 5200).If you need color then consider anything but an inkjet. They are a waste of money and the marketing wanks that hatched the idea should be exiled to a deserted island.I recently discarded an epson workforce tabloid printer just like this. It felt great.https://youtu.be/fjsSr3z5nVk@grouchobyte

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 04:27:56 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 01, 2017, 08:54:13 amI don't thinkanyonewho knows anything about printers thinks they're perfect for casual use. Naïve consumers who don't know any better choose the cheaper printer over the more expensive one, not realizing the downsides. (With laser traditionally being more expensive to buy, though that's changing now.)As a giant printer nerd, I've been recommending for ages that sporadic users choose laser.Quote from: Zbig on June 01, 2017, 10:26:45 amSame here. I got my first Canon-branded* inkjet in 2003 after my Epson became irrecoverably clogged, as most Epsons of the era did. The Canons have never given me trouble. (Of course, I never buy entry-level; maybe those suck, but I say "caveat emptor" if you think buying a $79 printer is a good idea.)*My first two printers were an Apple StyleWriter and Color StyleWriter Pro, which used the print engines from the Canon BJ-10e and BJC-600e, respectively. (I may be off by a letter on the "e" suffixes.) These printers were also tanks that handled any kind of abuse. I took old cartridges (they contained the print head) for the original StyleWriter and refilled them with all sorts of inks, from "proper" inkjet refills, to the cheapest fountain pen ink, and it reliably printed with them all. (I didn't dare try that with the Color StyleWriter Pro or any of my newer Canons, since they use separate individual ink tanks with a quasi-permanent printhead which I wouldn't want to contaminate.)Quote from: grouchobyte on June 02, 2017, 04:10:42 amIf you need high-quality color, inkjet is the winner, end of story. No color laser can match the print quality of a color inkjet.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 06:53:56 am
content: This post is rockinI thought I was alone in having SERIAL bad luck with inkjet printers and Fing cartridgesclapping out wayyy before their use by dateNext purchase favourite here appears to be a Mono laser printer,hopefully plonk it down, fill er up, install drivers, test,and walk awayand if necessary buy an-assume one good use only-colour inkjet printerI'm def going to get into some Youtube inkjet printer demolition videos later,and feel The Force flowing through them

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 08:56:29 am
content: I've never really had much trouble with inkjet printers. I find as long as you clean the dust and other crap out of them, they are fine. I've also found genuine canon ink to be better than generic.My Canon ip4000 is 12 years old now and still works very well, although I normally use my LaserJet 4M Plus for anything non-colour.I've been pondering getting my old Epson Stylus Photo 750 going again just for the fun of it. The motors in those sound like they are trying to play tunes.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:08:14 am
content: I bought a cheap Samsung color laser printer several years ago. It was cheaper than a full set of Epson inkjet cartridges. It even has ethernet and wifi. So far it's great, not a single paper jam or shitty prints. Granted, it's not the fastest (in color), but I couldn't care less, I don't print that much anyway. When I incidentally need to print something, the damn thing should just work.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:29:43 am
content: I've been through a few ink jets and have a couple of lasers now, an old workhorse HP 6MP and an Oki C5200 colour that does shit hot photo quality.Recently when we changed the office PC to Win 8.1 an oooold HP scanner was no longer supported so it had to go.Tucked away was a Canon Pixma that we had bought our daughter many moons ago and it had done so little work so I thought it might be useful for scanning and copying. Of course the head would likely be dried out and it was.New cartridges and numerous cleaning cycles couldn't coax it into life.With nothing to lose I ripped the head out of it and gave it a good wash and clean. A little success but nowhere near what it should print like.Spurred on by some small success I left the print side of the head on wet paper towels for a few hours in some misguided attempt to dissolve all the dried out ink in the jets. Result was much better but still not real good so it got the same treatment again, this time overnight.Easy fix really once you know how.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:58:33 am
content: For me inkjet is nearly free to use. I bought canon pixma ip2200 in 2005 for about $50 + 4x 100ml bottles of good quality ink (lifetime supply) for like $15-20. Lasted me for about 9 years, bought black cartridge for about $18 once as it electrically died after many years. The downside was that it had cartridges with built in printhead, therefore less life and more pita to fill them. Right now Canon still sells printers with exactly the same cartridges, with one added ripoff, though. It has 2x less ink in usual cartridges, and my usual cartridges became "high capacity ones", and my high capacity cartridges are no longer supported by new models.In the end when color cartridge died 3 years ago, I just bought a more expensive Pixma ip7250 which has a standalone printhead + 5x 100ml bottles of decent ink for around $25-30. I think filled them around 5 times so far. No issues as for now.Using laser printers won't be any cheaper for me, especially if using original consumables. They also come with crappy reduced capacity cartridges, so soon you will pay 60%+ of your cheap laser printer price.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 10:44:44 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2017, 09:58:33 amIf you think Canon's PIXMA is a ripoff, then buy a different brand. Free printing is not a human right.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 11:09:00 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on June 02, 2017, 10:44:44 am, really? I just said they kept the same cartridges but halved their capacity (3ml per color). You can see where the things are going. If that is not a ripoff, then I don't know how I should call it. "normal capacity" became nearly unusable, and those cartridges are a total waste of built in printheads as would last 20+ times of ink capacity in those cartridges. I any case, this is a reason why I skipped those models right away and gone to higher price range.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 12:26:38 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2017, 11:09:00 amThat's a big time ripoff... all these inkjet printers and their "starter" cartridges are a ripoff. Everytime it cleans the head, it wastes half the ink...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 12:34:31 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on June 02, 2017, 12:26:38 pmThe point is, those are not just starter cartridges, like in laser printers. Those are "normal" capacity cartridges you buy in the store.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 12:36:42 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2017, 12:34:31 pmin that case let me rephrase that... it's a fvcking rip-off!

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 01:01:33 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on June 02, 2017, 12:36:42 pmmy local officeworks has printers.so why bother with the cost of owning one.we all know the business model, cheap inkjet printers, sold at cost. expensive cartridges, all this running on firmware that has hiddan spyware.I have a inkjet printer just for the flatbed scanner in the lid of it. I have given up on printers a long time ago!

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 02:17:58 pm
content: I still have a TWENTY year old Epson Photo EX. This prints up to nearly 12" wide with six ink colours, which is why I have kept it. I fired it up a few weeks ago to do a print job. This was the first time it was even plugged in, in about 7 or 8 years. No joke. I installed a "new" (>10 year old, but unused) ink tank and performed two or three cleaning cycles and boom... working like a champ. I did a test print to flush some more ink through the system, then I was off and printing. Epson piezo print heads FTW.

author: DmitryL
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 07:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: grouchobyte on June 02, 2017, 04:10:42 amCome onThere are some more or less good working inkjet printers... I can recommend these guys as an example (among many others):http://digital.markandy.com/A bit expensive though

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 07:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2017, 11:09:00 amWell, again, if you spend $50 on a printer, you're gonna be paying through the nose (and other select body parts) for the ink. It's almost universally smarter to spend 2-3x as much up front on the printer, in exchange for much lower running costs.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 08:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 02, 2017, 07:51:05 pmThe issue is, a few years earlier they sold printers for a little bit less money and same cartridges but 2x more of capacity (still supported by new models). The most ridiculous part was that they dropped support for true high capacity cartridges for no technical reason.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 08:58:06 pm
content: Quote from: DmitryL on June 02, 2017, 07:21:07 pmI need 11x17 or tabloid format because I print B size schematics, mostly for making red-line edits when debugging a circuit. There is nothing available that is reasonably priced between inkjet crap ( and I mean CRAP) like EPSON or a full blown color laser at $2000 USD. Even a new monochrome Laserjet from HP is the size of a small car, weights 80 lbs and cost $1.8K USD. I hear that architects are flocking to the market in search of used/refurbished monochrome laser printers like the HP5200 because there is really slim pickings on the tabloid printer market unless you prefer screwing with ink or paying through the nose for a really high end plotter.Ya, I know for letter size there are some decent inkjets on the market. I will NEVER consider one again for 11x17 printing, NEVER!@grouchobyte

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:00:45 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on June 01, 2017, 11:22:33 amIf I need gallery-quality photos on a gallery-quality paper I will go to a professional printing service and not screw around with a crappy inkjet and overpriced paper. The results will be much better.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 02, 2017, 08:00:23 pmI assume you're referring to the PG-30/40/50 series and the color equivalents? Yeah, it's a bit strange. (That change coincided with moving to region-coded cartridges, i.e. the PG-40 and -50 are worldwide, but USA has the PG-30 while Europe and Oceania have the PG-37. Ever since then, new cartridge series have been released as e.g. PG-2xx for USA and PG-5xx for elsewhere.)What's really strange, though, is that the page yield on the PG cartridges — which Canon has obviously gone to great lengths to not advertise — are odd. For example, some places list the PG-30 as having 220 pages yield and the PG-40 having 195, despite the latter being larger. (30/37: 11ml, 40: 16ml, 50: 22ml).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:09:59 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 02, 2017, 09:00:45 pmAnd what do you think they will print it on? If it's larger than an 8x10", they're gonna do agicléeprint — the art community's snobby and inadvertently perverted term for, you guessed it, an inkjet print.Yes, for smaller prints you can get it printed on actual silver halide photo paper. But it's not really better than inkjet in terms of print quality. And an inkjet print using archival pigment inks should be more lightfast than a silver halide print, since the color dyes in silver halide paper are not as stable as pigments.For smaller sizes there's also dye sublimation, though you really only find it at those instant-gratification photo print kiosks at stores anymore.

author: imidis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:18:08 pm
content: Not necessarily. Production laser printers do a pretty damn good job. Either way a professional print service will be able to do it cheaper and better regardless of method.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:33:27 pm
content: I look at a lot of photographs in galleries, and I've noticed that the pseudorandom dot pattern on inkjet-printed work is almost always visible. It is not visible on lightjet/lambda prints.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 09:52:50 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on June 02, 2017, 09:04:11 pmYes I mean them and CL-38(31), CL-41, CL-51

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 10:44:28 pm
content: Photo print quality on color laser printers varies widely. My friend had a Minolta Magicolor laser that produced beautiful semigloss photos, almost as good as an inkjet on photo paper. The consumables were horrendously expensive for a laser though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 11:06:23 pm
content: Quote from: helius on June 02, 2017, 09:33:27 pmI guess the visibility of the dots depends entirely on the quality of printer and print mode used. For sure, at arm's length, you cannot see the dots of a 6+ color, 2pl droplet printer. (Think 4800dpi.) In contrast, the 300-600dpi 4-color units used for fast poster printing have obvious pixelation at arm's length.The "pseudorandom" pattern is called stochastic screening, btw.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 02:40:13 am
content: I remember using a colour wax printer at work (I think I may have mentioned this in some other thread somewhere). I think it was the Phaser 850 or 860 from memory (and yes, it was one of the Tektronix branded units before Xerox bought their printer division).It used solid wax blocks as ink. It produced some fantastic images at up to 1200dpi resolution. The downsides outweighed the good however; The wax was very expensive, the print speed was slow (about 3.5 pages per minute at the highest quality) and you literally had to wait for the printer to warm up so it could melt the wax before printing. Cleaning the print mechanism was easy, it would simply run a routine which heated the print heads and other components so that the wax became liquid and dumped it into a waste tray.These are the solid ink blocks it used:It was certainly one of the more interesting printers I've used.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 03:59:20 am
content: I used to refill my own color cartridges and for years was able to get decent color prints when i needed them. But it is a royal PITA cleaning the heads when you have not used them in a while. Now I have a black and white laser and its been years since Ive broke out the inkjet. The heads can be gotten to work again, it just takes time for the dried ink to moisten up enough to be cleared out.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 10:46:56 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 02, 2017, 09:09:59 pmI hope you do realize that there is a difference between a large, high resolution professional quality inkjet printer or plotter (like the ones used for A0 posters, for example) that is running almost nonstop with proper maintenance and the crappy consumer disposable inkjets.Not all inkjets are made equal.

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 12:45:43 pm
content: If its of any interest to anyone, I did a quick comparison of "lightjet" and inkjet prints on my website last year.http://stevecoates.net/printing/index.htmlThis is just one example, and in this case, I found the consumer inkjet to be better. There are many more examples where I have found the Lightjet/Silver Halide to be far better. I personally prefer the paper finish on proper photographic papers. Fujifilm Crystal Archive DP2 is very nice.My own inkjet prints have noticable dithering, which I don't like. I actually printed some photos a while back with the setting 'ordered course', rather than the standard error diffusion, and I actually preferred the appearence of the ordered course.I bought a photograph a few years ago from my local newspaper. It is obviously inkjet (printed on Epson brand paper), but there is no noticable dithering, and it is very sharp, with nice colours. Its just as good, if not better than some of the lightjet prints I get. No idea what model of printer they used unfortunately.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 09:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 03, 2017, 10:46:56 amThat's definitely true, however the problems I had were not related to heavy use but rather infrequent use. I regularly go a month or more without needing to print anything and it's those periods of disuse that would often clog up the print heads beyond recovery.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 09:55:28 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on June 03, 2017, 10:46:56 amSure. But the print quality from good desktop printers is superb. The larger printers often have lower resolution, since their prints will not be viewed from as close. But you are absolutely right about the maintenance. That said, there are huge differences in the maintenance needs among desktop inkjets - the Canons with individual ink tanks tend to be very tolerant. My 9 year old MP970 prints perfectly every time, whether it's been a day or two months between prints. I've literally never had to run an extra cleaning cycle on it.Quote from: Halcyon on June 03, 2017, 02:40:13 amI think Xerox still makes solid ink printers, in fact!While you remember them as slow, they were actually among the fastest printers of their time - provided they were kept on so the ink was already melted. (Every warmup cycle used a ton of ink, so these were terrible for sporadic use. They were great office workgroup printers though.) Their print quality was better than color lasers of the time, but they kinda stagnated in this regard. Modern lasers far exceed the quality of today's solid ink printers. (Liquid) inkjets are so far ahead it's not even funny.On speed: these use a full page width print head. They expelled ink onto a transfer drum, which then rolled it onto paper. They whir for a few seconds with no visible action, and then suddenly spit the printed page out at a startling speed. The models of around 2001 (Phaser 860 I think) were around 10 pages per minute in standard mode, and provided the machine was already warmed up, this speed was no joke; these things had beast processors in them, and by the time you made it down the hall to the printer, the first few pages were already waiting for you. .One of the unique features of these printers is that InkStix can be loaded without even pausing a print job. (As can the paper, which isn't so exotic.)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2017, 10:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 03, 2017, 09:12:37 pmIf they're left powered on rather than off this can happen as they don't go through the head maintenance cycle.If you want/need an IJ be sure to select one that you can easily remove the print head and sit it down on wet paper towels should it ever become clogged.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2017, 10:18:32 am
content: Quote from: tooki on June 03, 2017, 09:55:28 pmI have one, Phasor 360, and the only reason I have it is because the consumables are so expensive, and the machine will use a block of each colour wax per startup cycle, and if you leave it on will use a box of them ( 3 colour, black is free, and if you actually want more it literally is a free add on to the next order) per month, which is a not small running cost. Add to that a maintenance tray, which is an oil bag ( nice silicone oil), a wiper and a waste ink tray, plus a gear driven flag that is going to tell you at 1000 pages it needs to be replaced. I just used a screwdriver to work the ratchet off and wound the tray gear back to the beginning to fix that, you had over 2l of oil there and would use 50ml in the 1000 pages. I used to print pages with white test on a black background with it, simply because it would do so, and there was no cost for the ink if you wanted a colour page otherwise.Only issue was the printing would smear, and if left in the sun or heated ( like in a laminator) they would really smear and go through the paper. Always wonder how it would work as a PCB transfer method, if it were not for the silicone oil contamination on each page from the oil coat on the transfer drum.BTW the way they work is they have 160 (IIRC) piezoelectric print heads on a bar, 40 per colour, and make an image on the heated oil coated drum by spinning it and stepping across the drum generating a series of wax droplets ( different sizes for intensity along with a dither pattern) till they had made a full pass and made a full image on the drum. Then paper feed took a sheet, warmed it up to slightly below the melting point of the wax, and passed it so it touched the drum and picked up and cooled the wax image, then used a PTFE coated roller to ensure adhesion and popped it out the top. Would also work with laser tranparencies.Early ones had a free recall and upgrade after a few of them had the PTC drum heater catch fire, the mod was a new PTC heater, a fan for it to move the air, and an extra few one shot thermal fuses along with a temperature thermoswitch for improved control. Took a day to install as well by the local tech. They also have an internal ultrasonic cleaner for the print heads, and a vacuum purge for the heads as well for shut down. We had one scrapped because of a paper jam, they turned the machine off, and the paper jam became one with the drum, and then they tried to remove it with a knife, scratching the drum.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2017, 12:55:56 pm
content: I have the best of both worlds here. I have a Brother HL-1440 laser that is networked with an HP JetDIrect EX plus. I also have an Epson Workforce WF-3540 inkjet all in one that is dedicated mostly to company use. SWMBO prints the bill pay statements when she pays bills, other than that, it's strictly company use. Thus, the company pays for the ink. There is very little printing done here. The laser can go more than a month without being used. The Epson is used a few times a month. The scanner function gets used far more. I leave everything on since I claim part of my electric bill for having a home office. The laser was a garage sale find for $10 with an extra toner cartridge. I have it about 4-5 years and have been through 2 toners and 1 drum and it just keeps cranking. The Epson is about 3 years old and has not failed to print yet and is also a non reimbursable business expense so it is a deduction come tax time. I won't buy bottom of the barrel ink jets. I find if I stay around the $200 mark, I will get a printer that lasts. I like not having to worry about the cost of ink for it.