Advice on purchasing an oscilloscope in Aus - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: bbjk7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2013, 04:42:54 pm
content: Greetings fellow electronics enthusiastsIf you don't want the background story, just skip the the bold bitYes I know you must read through probably a hundred of these per month,but I'm only a 21 yr old apprentice at this stage who needs to carefully evaluate what I spend my hard earned cents on,so your input on this matter would be highly appreciatedSo I'm in the process of slowly building up a small electronics setup,having bought a power supply as well as two slightly decent multimeters over the last two months.Now I'm thinking the next step should be an oscilloscope, & it would be a nice addition, but which one? And why are these things so damn expensive and hard to find in Aus?According to Dave, if you have 1 analogue and one digital, you're pretty much fully equipped, so that is what I will be working towards. but for the moment, I am also saving up for other things and will only consider a old analogue for now as my budget is only somewhere between $200 - 300.The one I'm looking at (cheapest DECENT one I could find) is a Kenwood 40MHz CS 5135, the guy wants $200 for itThoughts?Know of somewhere I can get a cheaper analogue scope of roughly the same specs?Should I perhaps wait a bit longer until I feel comfortable with forking out around $700 for these things?I know the general response is usually "It all depends on what you need". Truth is, I don't NEED any of this stuff. My workplace has it all... but I only work on my personal projects at home, and they are limited to what I have at my disposal. Any extra features would not really go unused.So basically, the most important factor for me is "Bang for Buck". I could always just save up for a year and a bit to buy one of those new ds1000z series scopes.Thanks for reading

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2013, 06:30:49 pm
content: Dave made a whole video about getting a cheap scope. Recommended viewing. And there are indeed "thousands" of such threads here. Recommended reading. And before you ask, no, you and your case ain't special in any way.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 12:59:33 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 28, 2013, 04:42:54 pmNow see here young manhttp://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/#selection

author: neggles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 01:43:07 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 28, 2013, 04:42:54 pm-cough-http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-2013-Newest-Hantek-DSO5072P-Digital-storage-oscilloscope-70MHz-2Channels-1GSa-s-7-TFT-LCD/928482560.html-cough cough-https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/Just saying, mana high-bandwidth DSO will almost certainly be a lot more useful to you initially than an old analog scope. Analog scopes have their place, don't get me wrong, but DSOs are a lot more flexible and useful. If you can only have one, the DSO is the one to have.also,QuoteIt's called the Australia Tax. Sucks to be us- plus the market for o-scopes and meters and other precision test equipment is small enough in high population density areas like America and Europe, never mind us with the population of Texas in the landmass of the continental united states.It's all made overseas, too, and a lot of the EU/US companies haven't quite grasped the idea of the australian dollar being worth similar amounts to the US dollar yet.Quote from: AlfBaz on September 29, 2013, 12:59:33 amShame on you for recommending him a five year old productThe 1052E's specifications are just woeful compared to the similarly-priced chinascopes, especially on screen resolution and size (which is important!)

author: bbjk7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 02:31:38 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on September 28, 2013, 06:30:49 pmYou're not helpful...I have watched that video, and I have countless watch lists on ebay for these things. People just don't want to sell them for any less than $200And I have read through probably a hundred of those thousands of threads out there, none of them are applicable to someone buying a scope in aus.Quote from: AlfBaz on September 29, 2013, 12:59:33 amyes i'm aware of the entire bottom range that rigol has to offer, it's probably the first place I went to at the start of this quest 3 weeks back, not good value for money.this ?Quote from: neggles on September 29, 2013, 01:43:07 amneggles, you on the other hand are quite helpfulQuote from: neggles on September 29, 2013, 01:43:07 amThanks for those, they are quite tempting, but, reason I'm staying clear of cheap DSOs is Dave's rant on EEVblog #86... don't watch the whole thing, just the 2:20 -4minute mark. I fall into the trap of doing that, he's just so entertaining it's almost, hypnotisingI guess I'm just not ready for what I want, I'll come back in a year or soEdit: At around the 6:40 mark he states: "you can get a 100mhz dual channel scope for under $100"THAT is what i'm after, but cannot find. So I've gone up to $200 and the best I could do is hassle someone down from $250 to 200 for60 mhz..40MHz!!Even accounting for inflation... Things don't just go up 100% in price... and that's only forHALF THE BANDWIDTHNOT EVEN HALF THE BANDWIDTH

author: neggles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 03:01:22 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 02:31:38 amCan I just point out that EEVBlog #86 is three years old, and he's talking about silly little useless things like this:http://www.diyertool.com/measuring-equipment/oscilloscopes/dso203-pocket-sized-digital-oscilloscope-arm-dso-nano.htmlwhich only have maybe 1-2MHz of actual useful bandwidth. They're utter garbage for measuring anything beyond the KHz range, and even then, they're still pretty rubbish.Also just after 2:20min he says "if you can afford to, go out and buy the $400 Rigol DS1052E" - the DSO5072P is wayyyyy better than a DS1052, especially hacked to 200MHz.These new chinascopes are excellent value for money and give you all kinds of really useful features. If you're in Melbourne, I've got one arriving tomorrow so you could potentially meet me at CCHS (http://www.hackmelbourne.org/) one tuesday/saturday and have a bit of a play with it to see if you like it.Also, the price of test equipment (especially old analog scopes) has gone up in recent years due to increased demand (more people getting into electronics) and decreased supply (more of this stuff being thrown away) so it's a lot harder to find a scope now than it was in 2010. If I might ask, what state/city are you in? You could potentially find a local hackerspace with equipment you can use.Also maybe ask around at universities to find out if they're planning to trash old scopes soon

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 03:23:55 am
content: I have a Siglent SDS1102CNL (100Mhz, 2 Ch.) which I bought for around US 30 including UPS shipping. Since you are in Australia, you should be able to get one for cheaper. Also, take a look at Owon. I personally don't like them, but I know some people that do. There are many good, cheap Chinascopes out there.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 05:10:56 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 28, 2013, 04:42:54 pmThe Kenwood is way overpriced for a 40MHz 'scope.Hang in there,you should be able to pick up a Tektronix or HP for around that price.Don't just confine yourself to eBay,look in Gumtree,& whatever your local classified ad paper is (in WA.it's the Quokka).Try Hamfests & Amateur Radio carboot sales--My Tek 7613 mainframe 'scope cost me $135 at a Hamfest a few years back.Don't be scared off by the bigger Oscilloscopes----if they don't fit your bench,get a bigger bench!The 7000 series mainframes perform as well as many of the later Tek models,plus they are extremely versatile.Don'tbuy an older digital,(I'm talking '80s & '90s stuff).They will be very disappointing for general use.The latest digitals are much better,but the cheaper ones still have some limitations.I don't have a DSO,but if I did buy one,it would probably be a Rigol .

author: bbjk7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 01:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on September 29, 2013, 03:23:55 amQuote from: echen1024 on September 29, 2013, 03:23:55 amaround US 30 including UPS shippingSince you are in Australia, you should be able to get one for cheaper.Since you are in Australia, you should be able to get one for cheaper.Oh... Pardon me sir... I forgot that here in the land where we saddle up kangaroos, we also have a fine vintage of OSCILLOSCOPE ORCHARDS.And yet I'm the one who gets accused of not reading enough...Quote from: neggles on September 29, 2013, 03:01:22 amYes I'm aware that video is 3 years old, just shocked still that they've gone up so much in price. Also, I know he was talking about those pocket oscilloscopes. Just thought I'd be able to get a decent old analogue one one for much cheaper like he said...As for the DSO5072P, yes it is quite a nice and tempting scope... And I would be quite interested in meeting and sussing out this scope, but currently I reside in the finer part of Australia (Adelaide, you Victorian scumKidding! I too am originally from melb) but my thoughts were that I'd just get the bare minimum analogue one to get by for now, then when I'm ready to to fork out for the "chef d'oeuvre" of my setup.. I'd get something like this:http://www.eyou.com.au/product/1799/or this:http://www.eyou.com.au/product/rigol-ds2072-70mhz-2gss-2-ch-8-color-lcd-/Quote from: vk6zgo on September 29, 2013, 05:10:56 amAmen. But after 3 weeks, that's all I could find... and that WAS on gumtreeQuote from: vk6zgo on September 29, 2013, 05:10:56 amIt's not the size I'm afraid of... it's the priceAnd no, I don't intend on touching any pre 2000 DSOsYes, the Rigols are what I'm working towardsbut won't feel comfortable spending that amount of money for at least the next year or two.Thanks, I'll tell the guy to go bury his scope... In hope that it will take root and nurture us young, knowledge hungry, kangaroo jockey australian electronics enthusiasts

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 01:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 28, 2013, 04:42:54 pmWith that budget you can by a low end digital one. You wouldn't generally spend that sort of money on an old analog.They are hard to get because we have a very limited market here, and there are a couple of surplus dealers who snatch up the rare pallet loads that go to auction or whatever.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 02:15:03 pm
content: The Rigol DS1052 is the way to go. It may be 5 years old, but with a solid interface and a 3-year Oz warranty, it is still hard to beat. As a beginner, it will take you a loooong time to outgrow it. It may not have the sexiest screen, but is more than adequate for your likely tasks.Saving for a year to buy something shinier doesn't make sense, you want to learn about electronics now!

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 03:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 01:31:33 pmLololol. Around UD300Sorry for mistake.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 03:43:39 pm
content: Why not a oscilloscope build in your country, I got one like that long time ago, I think the brand was BWD?eurofox

author: neggles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 03:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: eurofox on September 29, 2013, 03:43:39 pmThe problem there would be that (to my knowledge) no such thing exists.Quote from: Wytnucls on September 29, 2013, 02:15:03 pmThe warranty service from Hantek/Tekway is surprisingly good (pay shipping one way and you're good) and these devices are cheap enough that "buy a new one" is just about a valid plan in case something DOES go horribly wrong. I'd agree with you if there was, perhaps, a 2-channel DSO1000 scope available - but I just can't recommend a DS1052E to anyone given its age, price and relatively mediocre (by modern standards) specs.Plus OP already said he looked at it and decided he didn't want oneQuote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 01:31:33 pmAw, that's a shame. I do know a few people who live over there in "oh god what you call this WATER?"-villeThe good news there is though, the way AliExpress works, if you get the thing and you find it lacking you can pretty much return it within ~30 days without any trouble beyond not getting postage / return postage back - Ali holds the money in escrow until you approve payment to the seller, and so they're basically at your mercy.I got a 50% refund given to me by AliExpress once when a company shipped me a mini projector I ordered missing the VGA port that they insisted was there...

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 04:01:58 pm
content: Quote from: neggles on September 29, 2013, 03:52:30 pm

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2013, 04:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 02:31:38 amWhat an odd response from someone who was about to shell out 200 bucks for a circa 10 yr old piece of crap 40 Meg scope

author: neggles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2013, 04:56:10 am
content: Quote from: eurofox on September 29, 2013, 04:01:58 pmThe company has been out of business for many, many years - but yes, about 30 years ago they did build o-scopesI just got my DSO5072P and I have to say I am very impressed.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2013, 07:13:50 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 02:31:38 amHuh?You said you were prepared to pay up to $300 for an old analog scope!And a brand new $350 digital scope is bad value??Just go and buy this:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SDS1052DL-7-inch-Color-Widescreen-50MHZ-500MSa-s-32Kpts-Digital-Oscilloscope-/141006175893Under $300, includes shipping, and will do you for quite some time. Much more useful than some old analog scope.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2013, 07:16:43 am
content: Quote from: bbjk7 on September 29, 2013, 02:31:38 amYou, like may other fail to realise what I'm saying there.I have never said to stay clear of cheap bench scopes like the Rigol or Siglent or Owon, or Hantek etc. I'm talking about the toy pocket scopes and USB scopes.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2013, 07:29:16 am
content: You have been given a lot of good advices on spending that $300 on DSO and imo you should follow it.The only reason that I could think of on spending that kind of money for an analog scope is you're getting a high performance, top tier analog scope, say like >300 Mhz and came with high performance genuine probes as well, and the most important thing is also its guaranteed working, not like that crappy 40 Mhz one.Also most people will choose this later option are "usually" already have or experienced DSO that they know exactly the reason to get these high performance scope even they're analog, cause DSO with > 300 Mhz performance is still quite pricey.