I need a new DMM - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 08:36:58 pm
content: My trusty Fluke 87 just had it’s 30th birthday and is set for retirement.I have a Fluke 789 process meter that lives on my bench that I use for 4-20 instrument calibration, but I don’t want to use it for general work in the field.My question is should I get a Fluke 87V Max or a Fluke 289 for field work? I work with VFD’s and troubleshoot motor controllers along with more mundane electrical chores. Does data logging and better resolution trump ruggedness and water resistance?We have 87-III’s at the shop so I’m used to them, what’s the learning curve like on the 289, how much do people that have 289’s use data logging?Thanks

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2020, 10:46:53 pm
content: I don't work in the same field as you, but I have some data logging multimeters and use them for very specific tasks on the lab/bench. I haven't had the need to use them outside that environment.Also, taking into consideration the lifespan of your previous meter, I wouldn't impose any limit on price as it would be easily amortized.Unless you are itching for something new or with more features, I would stick with the 87V or the 28II. The 87V Max seems a bit lacking when compared to the 87V, apart from the waterproof. There is a very long thread of discussion around here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-do-you-think-of-the-new-fluke-87-v-max/Depending on where you live(just saw your flag), you may have other alternatives such as Gossen, Hioki, Greenlee, Brymen, etc.Greenlee has some very good meters whose OEM is Brymen, a very good brand.

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 12:37:18 am
content: It is too bad Fluke stopped making the 189; I find it far more user friendly than the 289. The 289 is big and takes too long to boot not to mention the battery carrier back panel that seems like it is doomed to fail. Before considering the 289 I would suggest getting your hands on one and trying some of its features.Another meter to consider would be the Brymen BM869S that even JoeQSmith can’t kill. Welectron seems to be the best price with shipping sent to the US. ReadJoe’s thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 01:09:25 am
content: I went looking for a Fluke 289 for data logging and got fed up losing eBay auctions with $300+ bids on some pretty shoddy items; instead I bought a 'used' Keysight U1242C from the Keysight eBay store for $200; that meter can capture 20,000 readings stand-alone. The Keysight handheld meter data logger software is free and works well; it can also download data captured by the meter in a stand-alone mode.You will need a USB-IR adapter cable for the Keysight meter or there's a Bluetooth wireless system available too that allows use with an iPhone or Android App - also free.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 01:18:33 am
content: I'm happy with all 4 of my Keysights meters, even if the IP rated ones are a little squishy in the range switch.

author: analogueAdder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 01:30:48 am
content: I rarely use datalogging but Extech's software disappointed me years ago so I'm biased.Since you'll be using it in the field, I would recomend the most rugged option.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 10:08:43 am
content: Check out the U1282A that's listed on the eBay Keysight store 'used'https://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-U1282A-True-RMS-60000-Count-Handheld-DMM-/184127621124?hash=item2adedc8804This is IP67, has special functions for working on VFDs, has a basic DC accuracy of 0.025% +5 counts, and I reckon they might accept an offer of $325 based on experience. It 'only' has 10,000 internal memory capacity for stand-alone readings and comes with the USB-IR cable that allows you to connect it to a PC running Keysight Data Logger software.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 01:25:25 pm
content: Quote from: Gregg on January 30, 2020, 12:37:18 amI like the 189 as well, but in rugedness I don't think it compares to the 87V or the 179 (have/had all three). As you correctly pointed, it would be a good idea to look at them in person.Quote from: Gregg on January 30, 2020, 12:37:18 amThat is a good alternative as well and electrically very robust. Greenlee in the US sells it as DM-860AI have a BM857 that mechanically is similar to the 189: robust but not up to 87V/179 level. I never had the 869S in my hands, though.Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on January 30, 2020, 10:08:43 amThis is a good meter but slower compared to the 87V. The range switch is a bit squishy (perhaps to meet IP67) but it has much more functionality, accuracy and resolution than the 87V. The U1272A/U1273A have a few interesting features for the field, such as LowZ voltage measurements and smart ohms for measuring the resistance of ground connections. It has almost the same resolution of the U1282A, but it is not as robust as the 87V/179.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 03:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on January 30, 2020, 01:09:25 amAs an owner of an 87V and a 289, all I can say is that, for a datalogger, you're not missing much. The 289's datalogging is good, but in some ways frustrating. Although the meter's DMM features are great (aside from the display contrast, which is disappointing without the backlight), the datalogging suffers from the following:1. No easy/convenient way to offload the data without a proprietary cable and software (mind you, I actually like their cable, since you don't have to worry about busting a connector or having the connector wear out.)2. Unintuitive saved data file system (recordings that weren't expilcitly saved still sit in memory, so you can't even access them to erase them, short of a wipe.)3. Relatively slow and crude trendline graphing and navigation.My feeling based on looking around at the market is that datalogging DMMs in general are either a very niche thing or very tiny market.Based on my observation, Fluke decided to build some excellent technical specs (uniquely good in their line) into the 289, and then added on a rather basic implementation of datalogging. It's possible that this is because the 289 was designed at a time where the use-cases for datalogging DMMs weren't fully fleshed out. They did the best with whatever requirements they had at the time.As an aside, I use my 87V almost exclusively over the 289. Little things like the 289's large size and the fact that it has to boot up before use makes the 87V much more convenient for me. I suppose as far as datalogging goes, the 289 is the only portable datalogger I own and I do use it whenever I can, which is less than I'd like to admit.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 04:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on January 29, 2020, 08:36:58 pmDo youneeddata logging? Otherwise, I'd go for either an 87V, or a 28 II/87V MAX. I think the 289 would be a bit annoying as a daily driver, since it takes longer to boot up, uses more battery, and I understand the dot-matrix display isn't quite as easy to read in poor light.Why does the 30 year old 87 need to be retired, anyway? Has it actually failed? Otherwise, I'd just keep using it!Quote from: rsjsouza on January 29, 2020, 10:46:53 pmJust to be clear, the 87V MAX and the 28 II areidentical, other than the model number printed on it, and possibly which test leads come packed in the box. Compared to the 87V, the only reduced functionality is the lower diode test voltage, which isn't enough to test modern 3+ volt LEDs. This has always been true of the 28 II, and it being rebadged as the 87V MAX didn't change that. Recommending the 28 II while saying to avoid the 87V MAX makes literally zero sense.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2020, 05:51:12 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 30, 2020, 04:07:03 pmYou are right that the 28II and the 87V Max are identical. I should have been clearer. My point was that, if you like the 87V but is considering the 87V Max, there are drawbacks to the latter in a direct comparison. If you like the IP67 rating of the 28II, then there's no need to consider any other model of the Fluke line.

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2020, 11:54:33 am
content: Thanks for the replies.It’s a difficult choice, but I think as daily driver the 87V works for me. I like the idea of ip67, but it’s not a deal breaker and I like 9v over 4AA, I can keep a fresh 9v in my go-bag and not even know it’s there.There’s a lot to like about the 289, but it’s pretty big for my go-bag and the short battery life seems annoying for a daily driver. For me it’s more of a bench meter. I may pick one up for the bench if I can find one cheap on E-Bay.One of the reasons my original 87 lasted 30 years was that you are able to reverse the meter in it’s holster to protect it. You could toss it in your tool bag and not have to worry about it banging up against everything you needed for a job. The big flaw with the original 87 is that there is no battery door, you have to remove the back to replace batteries and the screw receptacles on the case are getting tired. Retirement for my 87 means it will live in my truck and be handy if I need a meter, but don’t have my tool bag. Another reason I’m upgrading is the newer meters are faster with higher counts and better displays.There’s a lot of great new gear, Bryman and Keysight meters have a pretty loyal following but I’ve used Flukes in the marine industry for a long time so I’ll probably stick to Fluke as my primary but I’ll check out the others that were recommended.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2020, 03:49:04 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on January 31, 2020, 11:54:33 amYou might be able to extend the life of these with the judicious use of fine GRP.Use small strips of fine glass fibre around the thread posts to prevent them splitting.Fill the old threads with resin.When it's cured, you can drill and tap it to suit; a machine thread might last better than a self tapping one as the pitch is finer so less force is needed to make a secure fixing.

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 10:52:36 am
content: Good trick, as a boater I’ve used the resin trick many times to repair worn or rotted screw holes.Although the 87 has served faithfully the new DMM’s are more precise and have features that I find useful. We have 87-III’s at work and I’ve been using a 789 for gage calibration. If I had a personal meter with more features I’d probably use them. I was using a Fluke 79 and the shop had Simpsons when I started working on ships. The reason I got the 87 in 1989 was that a DMM with a Hz setting was radically new. In my job as a plant operator it was useful. Funny note, one ship I worked on had a digital Simpson meter. It was just like the normal Bakelite Simpson meter except it had a segmented red led display instead of the needle gage, it was the worst of both worlds and completely useless.I really like the idea of graphical trending for troubleshooting intermittent faults and monitoring duty cycle, but I’m not sure if the 289 is robust enough for field work and an 87V or 28II/87V Max would suit me better. I’ve always had my own meter at work even though we had good gear provided. There is so much really good gear available that it is proving to be a really tough decision and I appreciate the input from the people on the forum.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 01:22:22 pm
content: I think the big questions are:1. what are your actual requirements?2. are these requirements best met in one instrument, or would it possibly make sense to have multiple instruments?I mention #2 because I don't think THE perfect meter exists, in the sense that there's no way to make one that meets ALL requirements optimally. For example, my most-used meter is my Keithley 2015 bench meter, because it's always set up, doesn't take up bench space, and is fast as hell. But if I want to do anything mains (or above 3A current), I grab my 87V or Keysight U1252B. The Fluke is also the first one I grab if I need to measure away from the bench. The Fluke and Keithley are the ones I use for continuity. If I need additional non-mains voltmeters, I have some Keithley 197's and a few cheap handheld meters, including the Aneng AN8008 that's the meter I grab to take places if I need to save space.If I need to catch transients, I use the 87V -- despite the U1252B having supposedly identical transient capture specs, in my (admittedly unscientific) testing it misses things the 87V catches. The U1252B also occasionally fails to autorange in situations the Fluke handles gracefully. On the other hand, the U1252B has an extra digit of resolution, dual display, better logging, and can measuremuchlower capacitor values.So for me, the answer is to have a whole stable of instruments that get used for different things. This may apply to you, too!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 02:19:07 pm
content: 87V is a ball ache compared to the old 87. I’d keep it, get it cal’ed and carry on.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 04:10:28 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 01, 2020, 02:19:07 pmI always heard that and, when I got the 87V, I was afraid it would be a real burden. However, given the default AC is only on current measurements, I really don't think it detracts from the meter. Obviously that I don't use it often and is a matter of opinion.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 04:26:22 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on February 01, 2020, 10:52:36 amIf the 87V is robust enough, then the 289 is robust enough, mate.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 04:56:15 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 01, 2020, 04:10:28 pmThere are two other annoyances other than the default AC:1. The display visibility sucks when it's flat on the bench in front of you2. Probe alert goes crazy if they get damp.Side by side if anyone is interested:The backlight on the 87V is better though. But that 87 has seen some shit and survived it

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 05:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on January 29, 2020, 08:36:58 pmIn my experience:- In the field, absolutely not.- In the lab, absolutely yes.TBH, so far I used logging only out of curiosity, for charging/discharging various types of batteries, and twice to log the current of two different refrigerators over a couple of days (home, indoors refrigerators because of suspecting them to turn themselves on much often than they should - one was really defective, the other was OK, but nothing in the field in an industrial environment, for example when I was doing some SCADA work, only casual measurements, no logging or high precision was required to my experience in the field, ever).About better resolution, never needed more that 1V accuracy for day to day use in the field, maybe 0.1V at most.In the lab, sometimes even the 100 000 counts DMM I have now is not enough, but then we are already talking about precision lab bench DMM needs, not handheld ones. For casual bench work repairs, 0.1V is usually more than enough to me.Ruggedness in the field is priceless, at the lab is irrelevant.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 05:10:12 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on February 01, 2020, 10:52:36 amOwner of 87V, 189 and 287 (identical size with 289), to me the Fluke 287/9 is more like a handheld oscilloscope, rather than a DMM, of course low speed scope but with high resolution capture.Also the outer yellow rubber at the case in 287/9 is molded to the body, not like 87 that can be detached say for cleaning.Btw, the 287 physically is quite big, it feels exactly like holding a big brick, sizes comparison of my 87V, 189 and 287 below.One thing I don't like about the Fluke 287/9 is the LCD display and it's boot time, size wise I don't have problem as I have relatively big palm.The LCD is made from dot matrix, hence it will always look soft grayish (see example below), even its viewed from the best angle and with the best contrast setting. No contest compared to sharp segmented LCD like Fluke 87 series.Boot time for Fluke 287/9, its subjective of course, its just I don't like it as it takes few seconds to be ready, not like the 87 that gives you instant ready to use when switched on for the 1st time.About the graphical trending capture, you're right, its handy, no hassle and need to lug separate laptop/tablet/phone just to view the logged data.Below example of 8 hours temperature logging I've done few years ago, at my 287 with temperature probe just hanging at free air, when I installed a new AC in a room, looks like the AC worked pretty decent at regulating the room temperature, it was set at 25 C.The 8 hours chart span, can be zoomed down to 2 minutes resolution, straight at the meter, no need any stinky dongle nor hassle to view it from other device, exactly just like a handheld scope does.Btw, as you can see, the LCD contrast is just suck, compared to segmented LCD like 87.My 2 cents.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 05:18:55 pm
content: You obviously need both.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2020, 06:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 01, 2020, 01:22:22 pmI see comments similar to yours and wonder what applications where you use it? It seems pointless to try to determine anything about the waveform. I bought a cheap Fluke 97 when I need something portable.Mid video, I compare a few meters with Dave's 121 when looking at a short digital pulse. I didn't use the 87V in this test. It may be better than the CEM but it's no LeCroy.https://youtu.be/mzBDgxkO3HE

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2020, 12:58:10 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 01, 2020, 05:18:55 pmWho am I kidding, I pulled the trigger on a 289 and ir3000 module. I’ll probably pick up an 87V Max/28II if I can find one at a good price, but there’s no rush.In the end I wanted something that could function as a bench meter and could handle light field work. The 87 can handle any rough duty for now, it owes me nothing after 30 years.Thanks for all the help.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2020, 09:59:16 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on February 01, 2020, 06:06:27 pmDetermining peak current in very pulsey loads like class-D amplifiers. Never said anything about trying to characterize a waveform...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2020, 05:38:58 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 02, 2020, 09:59:16 amPeak current is certainly one characteristic of a waveform but no matter. You must know something about the waveform and what to expect ahead of time or I don't see how you could trust the meter to give you a meaningful number. Then again, I guess that is true with any measurement.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2020, 03:16:45 pm
content: ooh yeah

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 12:29:18 am
content: My new 289 arrived today, I’m on the road for at least two more weeks and won’t get it until I go home.Does anyone use an i410 or i1010 clamp with a 289? If you do is resolution 0.5A or 289 display amps?My clamp meter now is one decimal resolution, I was wondering if the clamp ammeter attachment with the 289 had higher resolution than the stand alone clamp ammeter?Thanks.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 01:23:04 am
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on January 29, 2020, 08:36:58 pmwhat I love to use is the 87V for field work because of its simplicity. Real logging chores, complicated measurements, ...I always do in the lab, with a Keysight 34461A. Cramping too much features into a handheld is unergonomical.

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 05:47:45 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on February 05, 2020, 01:23:04 amI still have my 87 for grunt work, I’ll probably replace it with an 87V or 28II as my primary field meter at some point.I plan on using the 289 to log 4-20ma sensors and troubleshoot some duty cycle problems. Using electrical performance to troubleshoot mechanical issues can really speed the process along and I’m hoping the 289 will allow me to do that without having to stand around watching equipment cycle while waiting for a fault to reveal itself.The 289 should give me the ability to monitor and troubleshoot a system without tying up my hands for all my normal duties. The 289 is going to see a lot of time in the field, but my primary meter is still going to be an instant on, reliable workhorse like an 87V or 28II.Quote from: Fungus on February 01, 2020, 05:18:55 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 05:58:19 am
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on January 29, 2020, 08:36:58 pmThe 289 is not really a field test meter, it's more a high end lab meter.The 87V MAX is the same as the 28-IISeveral of Brymen's are good choices for rugged field use.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 06:53:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 05, 2020, 05:58:19 amPlus most of them have the option for datalogging via a cheap(ish) data cable.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 06:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 05, 2020, 05:58:19 amI agree with this. I have the 289 and I will sell it. The meter is as new, not used. My work is field service and this meter is a not for me.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 04:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: DiamonDiver on February 05, 2020, 12:29:18 amI'm not sure I totally understand your question. The fluke clampmeters, when used with the 289, are used in mVAC mode, to the full precision of the meter.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 05:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 05, 2020, 05:58:19 amBrymen is not bad at all, but the 121GW I have also suffers from the same featuritis (and complexity) as the 289, IMHO.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2020, 03:04:18 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on February 06, 2020, 05:35:25 pmSure, and I wouldn't recommend it as a field meter.There will be a new option coming up soon if the OP doesn't mind waiting:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 02:48:21 am
content: Quote from: frogg on February 06, 2020, 04:39:57 pmI was curious if the clamp meter attachment would have higher resolution than the stand alone clamp meter. I know the 289 has much higher mA / mV resolution, but I don’t know if the i410 outputs 3 or 4 decimal resolution. Most clamp meters I’ve worked with have only 1 or 2 decimal resolution.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2020, 12:20:12 am
content: There's aU1272A available on the Keysight eBay store right now- I would offer $196 if you want it.

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 02:22:29 am
content: Quote from: sotos on February 05, 2020, 06:54:10 pmUnfortunately I did not see this reply until after I purchased a new meter, I might have taken you up on this offer.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 02:28:45 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on February 05, 2020, 01:23:04 amI like my 87III a lot, tried an 87V briefly and hated it. The current modes default to AC Every. Single. Time. It's the most frustrating thing ever since I almost never measure AC current by breaking the circuit and neither does anyone else I know. My electrician friends all use a current clamp.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 04:18:03 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2020, 02:28:45 amI complained the Fluke about this a long time back and they claimed that customer research lead them to that change, people mostly used it for AC.In my experience the 80 series is the "electronics" meter, and the 70/170 series is the "electrical" meter, but that's not the way they market it though to be fair.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 05:53:25 am
content: I believe their customer research is wrong. It may well be that it is most frequently used for AC, however I would bet that a majority of the AC current measuring people do with it takes place with clamp probes that use the Volts range on the meter.The least they could do is make the setting sticky. The way it works is idiotic and frankly maddening, it annoys me enough that after being a Fluke fan for decades I will be looking elsewhere if I ever buy another meter.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 05:58:17 am
content: Depends a bit on the magnitude of the AC current you're measuring; if it's less than a few mA you're unlikely to get a worthwhile reading with a clamp.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 07:16:57 am
content: How often are most people measuring less than a few mA of AC? Especially commercial/industrial electricians, assuming that's who they're marketing to? A low current AC milliameter seems like a rather specialist instrument, if it's a feature they found that valuable it really should have got its own place on the dial. It's a major hassle to have it switch back to AC and have to hit the button again every time you switch from mA to A.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 08:20:21 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2020, 05:53:25 amThe argument that gets thrown around is this: People who write corporate procedural manuals want the meter to start up in a known state every time. That's why none of the power-on options are sticky.It doesn't explain the decision to always start in AC mode though, or why DC mode was a good choice for the older 87 models but not for the "V".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 09:19:14 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2020, 05:53:25 amYou aren't the first one, it's been common persistent complaint since the 87-5 was released.The little known 87-IV had separate switch positions for AC and DC

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 09:27:31 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2020, 02:28:45 amYou definitively have a point there. In the beginning I fell into this trap several times, now I got used to it.Does anybody know *WHY* they did this ?

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 09:44:08 am
content: Honestly everytime I measure current with a DMM I feel like I am doing something wrong, the burden voltage can mess up thing and you need to open the circuit to insert your tool.Much better to check the voltage across an already there resistor or use a clamp or as last card open the circuit for the dave µcurrent thing.https://www.eevblog.com/projects/ucurrent/ah, a decent lab power supply normally give me 97% the current values I need.Just my 2c.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 10:33:18 am
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on February 14, 2020, 09:27:31 amSee my previous post. "Customer feedback".

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 03:35:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2020, 07:16:57 amMaybe for checking earth leakage current on switching psus? It's the only one I can think of, off the top of my head.Quote from: Zucca on February 14, 2020, 09:44:08 amYes, I share your worriesI prefer to make my own shunts, for those instances when there isn't a convenient in-circuit resistor to measure off.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 08:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on February 14, 2020, 09:44:08 amSame here. The power supply shows a quite nice current measurement and, for point of load measurements, I either have thick film shunts on core and I/O power supplies to gauge current or use Dave's μCurrent. The burden voltage is way too high for DC and electronics. Perhaps that is why the AC default on the 87V does not bother me at all.

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2020, 07:17:08 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 14, 2020, 08:39:52 pmI feel the same way about using a DMM to measure current, the exception being 4-20mA troubleshooting and calibration.I thought about getting a Fluke i30 clamp for the DMM but the threshold is only 30mA. The 1mA resolution is ok, but the tool would be useless for 4-20mA work. In the end I couldn’t justify $600 for a tool that could only be used to find some parasitic loads. Fluke makes a process clamp meter for 4-20mA but I’ll continue to break the circuit with my DMM and 3 digit resolution and keep the $700 in my pocket.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2020, 09:04:47 am
content: Perhaps Fluke wanted to target the sparky market with the prestige of owning an 87V meterinstead of the 17x workhorse models and voltage stick prodders.The thing that's annoying with the 87V is measuring low level DC current in mA mode,and then switching to uA for more reso-digits and it defaults to AC and you wonder what's going on =Luckily I found this out BEFORE putting the trusty original 87 up for salei.e. I use the original 87 for DC current and 87V for AC current, and or both for more involved testsThe 28-11 has the same 87V annoyance, but for outdoor use it's king, and stays where it's put

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2020, 09:25:14 am
content: Almost all my handheld DMMs are "plugged" at it's current terminals ...

author: DiamonDiver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 01:00:11 am
content: When I got the 289 I also picked up a 117. The 117 lives in my go bag with my other essential tools for everyday use. It pretty much does everything my original 87 does, anything more advanced is covered with the 289 and 789.So far I don’t see the need to export graphs so I haven’t bought into the FVF software, but the data logging / onboard graphing has been extremely useful.I can drive a 4-20mA circuit from the control room with the 789 and record the signal with the 289 in the field for loads or the other way around for instruments. Saves a lot of time when chasing faults.I’m really happy with the 289 even though I’ll probably only use a fraction of the features on this beast. The 117 looks like it will be durable little workhorse.

author: parallax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 01:45:27 am
content: I just started getting interested in higher quality DDMs about 3 weeks ago. I've been reading many reviews and watched lots of videos. Just joined this forum today. I've had an Innova 3320 for I believe over 10 years. I has not gotten much use. However, I am starting to delve in electronics, and the limitations of the Innova 3320 are very apparent. I figured a descent quality multimeter would be a good investment. My current needs are mainly accurate DC voltage readings in the 3.5v to 8.4v range, continuity test, and testing capacitors. I've played with a Fluke 287 for the past 2 weeks. I understand that it is among the best portable DMM in the market with very high accuracy, but I don't find it fun to use. The 3 second boot up time does not bother me too much, but the display is not easy on my aging eyes with the low contrast, small digits size, narrow viewing angle, and the ghosting of the last 1 to 2 digits. It is also pretty big on my work bench, and has a pretty high center of gravity sitting on the stand, so I am concerned that it may be too prone to tipping over and damage the protruding knob or the screen. That plus the fact that I do not have immediate need for top-of-the line AC measurements and graphs, I may be returning this Fluke 287 to Amazon. I already ordered a Fluke 87V and a Brymen 869s to compare against the Fluke 287 before I make a final decision, but I anticipate keeping both the Fluke 87V and the Brymen 869s, and returning the Fluke 287.I look forward to learning from all the experience folks here. Thanks.

author: Mp3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 02:12:14 am
content: Quote from: parallax on May 07, 2020, 01:45:27 amI used to have an Innova 3320! total, complete, barely usable garbagei replaced it with a fluke 101 years ago and only now am getting around to replacing that

author: J-R
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 05:06:37 am
content: Quote from: parallax on May 07, 2020, 01:45:27 amI have all of these. The Innova is perhaps OK for the garage or glove box. It has no 10A fuse.The 287/289 has the best selector switch of the 3, and while the stand is a bit flimsy, on the bench I find it pretty solid. It's really a shame Fluke can't be bothered to update the UI. Also the battery life is poor.The 87V is a solid workhorse, but perhaps a bit out of place on an electronics bench. No comms options.Most likely you will end up with the Brymen 869s as the LCD is easily the best of the bunch and the dual display flexibility is good. BUT the selector switch is small and stiff and the stand is pretty weak. The meter sits at a much lower angle than the Flukes, which can actually help with the LCD visibility in many cases. Battery life is poor and you have to take the outer case off to replace the 9V battery.I'll plug the 121GW a bit as the selector switch and stand are decent. You can easily use a tablet or computer to make the display as large as you want without any cables or massive attachments (Fluke IR3000!).Maybe just spring for an HP/Agilent/Keysight bench meter?