Purchasing P&P machine - Open PNP Desktop SMD Pro - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: semir-t
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 07:16:43 am
content: Hello,Last year I purchased reflow oven and stencil printer. I did few boards with it and I am really satisfied. I manually placed components without any issues but I would like to try to automate this if possible. So I am not working on big batch productions and I usually manually solder up to 10 samples and if I need more I just produce in China. But I would like to be able to increase this number to at least 100-200 samples so that is why I am looking for P&P machine.I went through the forum and found some good reviews on the available machines under 5k but based on what read each of them has some issues and I am having some doubts at the moment so I started looking at the openPNP.Yesterday I saw this machine:Based on my needs do you think this machine would be a good purchase for me ? Can anyone give me suggestions with some other machines ?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 08:53:11 am
content: Every machine in every price bracket has weaknesses, compared to its peers, there are actually quite a small number of the smaller machines with any decent level of feedback in this forum. I don't think anyone has tried this one, or the Pandaplacer or even the LumenPnP for example and there are several others hidden away in various corners of the internet.Mostly they have gone for Charmhigh,Quihe,HWGC,KAYO,Neoden&Tronstol maybe the odd DIY Liteplacer.The software on all of these is quite different to a modern production SMT machine, functional but lacking anything more advanced than a panelisation feature. I haven't seen anything myself that suggests openPnP gives you any massive advantage. Sure you get system you can tinker with, in return you get to wade through 100's of threads and minimal documentation, at the end of the day you still have a cheap small PnP.If you are using a machine to make things to sell or to help your commercial endeavours the low cost of these machines make it worth trying one of them if you think it looks interesting. As long as you don't expect too much, you don't have a great deal to lose and someone has to be the first to jump. There is a low risk its a paperweight, at least its easier to throw in the bin than a 20 year old machine weighing 1500Kg.

author: semir-t
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 12:27:15 pm
content: Yes, exactly.I saw that there was a thread where Dave was looking for a machine with similar characteristic and I was really interested in Neoden YY1 but I see lot of people are saying that feeder system is not good and that they don't provide software updates. Their current price is around 5k and with all the issues I would rather wait and invest later to better one once I have actual need for it.I mean, currently for the boards that I do I don't really need the P&P machine as sample count is always around 10 boards which I can do by hand. And the low cost version based on OpenPnP are looking interesting at the moment for me to learn how they work and at this stage I am more looking it now as a hobby machine rather then something that I will provide as services. Of course hope is that it will help me speed up a little bit at least.

author: TONY HUYNH
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 15, 2025, 08:39:57 am
content: Your budget is under 5k, you can check out AFARCO iRON PnP, it is also developed based on OpenPnP, but completely different from other OpenPnP machines, it is completely made of aluminum alloy, and quick to assemble.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2025, 12:14:57 pm
content: That sounds super spamming their Tony. Also my advice for pnp... don't. Get jlc or the other places to do it or just do 1 or 2 by hand. If your time is worth anything then it'll never be worth while. Of all the parts of my factory pnp is the least useful to have in house. I find sheet metal (punch / press brake) and mill turn to be useful even if just for prototypes as you can so quickly see how things fit together, look and feel but realistically they are all poor financial choices to bring in house. So just do it if you think it'll be fun.

author: Rat_Patrol
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2025, 02:15:09 am
content: Quote from: loki42 on June 15, 2025, 12:14:57 pmThe biggest rebuttal I have for this is to keep your widgets as proprietary as possible, which is why assemble my own boards for my products. Bad enough I have to have the PCBs made by some rando company that could take my gerbers and do whatever with them. At least they have no idea what components go on and what they ultimately do.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2025, 09:37:38 am
content: I'm not making military or government stuff so I'm not very worried about sneaky boys stealing my stuff, my ideas aren't unique. My 3 pick and place machines are fun to watch, but at over 4000 kg each with feeders they take up a lot of space. I also need to worry about stuff I wouldn't otherwise, oh that part is on 88mm tape, I'll have to buy a feeder for that etc.I've seen a bunch of great machines cheap at auctions lately.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2025, 02:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: loki42 on July 18, 2025, 09:37:38 amYes, if your boards have anything programmable, just do the program loading at your site, and the copiers are defeated.As for used machines, I totally agree. The functionality of even 20-year old production machines is WAY better than the Chinese desktop machines. I have a Quad QSA30A (built by Samsung) that has 3 nozzles, flying vision on each nozzle, automatic nozzle change, and uses Quad's electronic feeders. I had a Philips CSM84 before that had mechanical feeders. These used spring force to advance the tape and peel the cover tape, and they were always sticking due to varying peel strength. The Quad electronic feeders are VASTLY more reliable. Watch out for 3-phase machines, most of the later models seem to require 3-phase power. I'm guessing some of them might be able to be rewired for single-phase, but that could become quite involved.After I got the machine, it needed a bunch of work, probably from being stored in a humid environment for a number of years.If you want to see it run:https://pico-systems.com/images/PickAndPlace.AVIJon

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2025, 03:20:32 pm
content: This P&P seems very limited in terms of feeders.Besides, I'm selling a smallSMT VP2800HP with 84 feeder lines.The AFARCO iRON PnP seems to be a belt driven P&P. Does it achieve its stated accuracy without drifting away all the time because of the belts stretching out?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 01:44:49 am
content: Quote from: temperance on July 18, 2025, 03:20:32 pmYes, note that on most machines wider tapes (and their wider feeders) take up several slots, so reduce the feeder capacity. More feeders are ALWAYS a good thing!Jon

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2025, 03:26:47 am
content: Also worry about max height and Max part size it can do. One of my machines does a lot less height than the others.