Chinese owners kicked out of Nexperia - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 08:58:37 pm
content: Can't find an English article yet but the Dutch government has taken control over the shares in Nexperia owned by a Chinese company called Wingtech. The reason is doubts over continuity of production and retaining IP for the European and US markets.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 09:37:17 pm
content: I found this article (in English) quickly but I'm sure that there are others.https://www.reuters.com/world/china/dutch-government-intervenes-chinese-owned-computer-chip-firm-nexperia-2025-10-12/But it doesn't say that the owners have been kicked out, only that the Dutch government can over ride some corporate decisions. Still I don't think that that's going to be nearly enough to stop the back door transfer of IP and other sensitive technology to China.This sounds like the same kind of concerns that the US has had, and continues to have, with many of the Chinese companies; and the Chinese employees of US companies and even of US government agencies.I wonder if anyone in the UK or the EU is paying attention?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 09:50:34 pm
content: Critical national industries, which now include semiconductor production, should not be sold on to unfriendly countries.Chinese companies can invest in the company if they like, but having them take on ownership completely and replace the board... I just don't like that one bit. China would certainly object to European companies taking control of Chinese ones, like BYD... there are joint ventures, but that's never giving over control.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 09:54:52 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 12, 2025, 09:50:34 pmI think that when it comes to business, there is no such thing as a 'Friendly" country! I think that most countries out there would be fine with stealing IP for an economic advantage.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 10:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 12, 2025, 09:50:34 pmWhy is that, pray tell?How is it any of our god-damned business what or who "China" owns? (I put that in scare quotes because it's not as if the Chinesegovernmentbecomes the owner of all those entities; often it's Chinesecompanies, same as anywhere else in the world. You know: capitallism.)Is China really "the enemy" now?Not in my view; but then, nobody asked me.Sure, let's us (the "West") startanotherwar, this time with China. That ought to work out just splendidly, dontcha think?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 10:19:18 pm
content: Of course, the answer is to ban export of critical rare-earth materials to unfriendly countries for military purposes.Who would think of that?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 10:50:52 pm
content: Quotechange critical rare-earth materials for semiconductors and the foots suddenly in the other shoe

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 10:55:01 pm
content: All I can say here is that eventually--perhaps even in my remaining lifetime--once the hegemonic empire (the US) crumbles and collapses, the Chinese will be free to go ahead and fully develop their economy, including becoming the world's cutting-edge suppliers of semiconductors.Which will suit me just fine.

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 11:12:52 pm
content: Things like this are happening everywhere. Large agricultural corps and farms all over the world, and key industries, are being purchased or infiltrated. It's a communist totalitarian regime doing what they do.The outcome will not be good. I don't know how it might be stopped. The Chinese have weaponized the West's system against itself. I blame AK.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 11:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on October 12, 2025, 11:12:52 pm

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 11:27:09 pm
content: friendly vs unfriendly countrysalliances exist between friendly countrys. North American / EU alliance vs the BRICS alliance.unfriendly countrys are from the other side that are hit with tariffs or sanctions or both.military alliances also back this up with force. legal alliances in international lawfare.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2025, 11:40:48 pm
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on October 12, 2025, 11:12:52 pmI wish I could take credit for all that, I really do.Unfortunately I must decline the accolade.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 01:22:58 am
content: when will germany take back kuka ?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 08:09:47 am
content: the dutch don't seize things often. but when they do...Its always amusing because on some level its theft. All seizures are. So its like people from the street coming in and taking stuff. So its like the mayor suddenly has it in his office haha. like quimby . put that machine in the mail room. put the trash commissioner in charge of operations. the age of semiconductor guilds?ensuring 'local' operation of technical things (for no reason other then protectionism) IMO is kind of like what guilds used to be.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GuildI wonder if its a good solution or if it just sounds good. Guilds resulted in a fair share of problems, historically. Some might say they were the reason why hard-line communism spawned

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:46:24 am
content: This kind of thing seems to be happening more often these days. I think many people in governments across Europe are starting to reassess how much crucial industrial capability is owned by foreign entities that may not place as much value or care in them as their home nations.For example, just earlier this year in the UK we had a whole debacle with the Chinese owners of the last remaining primary steel plant in the country wanting to shut it down, which would leave the UK without any capability to make steel from scratch (i.e. from raw materials). Workers literally blockaded Chinese management from entering the plant, and parliament was recalled from recess to have an emergency session to pass legislation to stop it happening.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 12:38:22 pm
content: Really? I thought the same guys were constantly hammering that borders were a bad thing and that we shall all live happily in a global world where each country would have its own specific strengths?What happened?

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 01:51:30 pm
content: The recent news of China placing restrictions on the rest of the world for processed REEs is the exact endgame they want to play. That's power.The UK steel production is a great example. They come in, use the capitalistic system against itself, shut it down, and import the steel until the UK does something it doesn't like, then they pinch it off.Western entities need to have economic reasons to buy out a company like the steel producer; that's not true for China. The payoff is in the power it gives them, and they have enough economic power to easily absorb any losses.If folks don't think this is planned, they are naive. China's Belt and Road Initiative is about centralizing the governance of the world's resources under China.China likes to say, "We follow all laws and regulations of the hosting country". So it's time to change the laws.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 01:58:58 pm
content: QuoteUnlike the west who do it by inventing some flimsy excuse to arm up and use force .

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 02:10:27 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on October 13, 2025, 01:58:58 pmSo you're saying you agree that China's Belt and Road Initiative is as I described?I haven't seen anyone argue that the West isn't also vying for the same power.Everyone in the West who remains living there is implying their tolerance and support of the West's existence and influence. That's not to say any of us have to agree with everything that's done in our name, but if we object substantially, the way to eliminate all support of the system is to move to the opposing countries.A recent post from a person claiming to live in the US exhibited their desire for the failure of the US in favor of China. One has to wonder why that person remains in the US.I can't imagine hating my own country so much and remaining a citizen there.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 02:18:56 pm
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on October 13, 2025, 01:51:30 pmI'm not sure that's quite the best example of that particular kind of taking-advantage-of-the-system, because the UK steel industry has been suffering for decades, before the Chinese started playing these kind of games. My understanding is that since the 1980s we've been kind of caught in the middle of a lose-lose situation where our domestic steel industry doesn't have enough domestic demand to sustain itself economically, but can't compete in exports against other large steel producers (North America, Asia, etc.), and because government has been very lacklustre in its support industry has looked to foreign investment - India, China, etc. - but which then leaves it open to these kind of shenanigans later on.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 02:40:12 pm
content: QuoteSome managers have different ideas. For shareholders, a company has to increase its profits every year. If not, the company is failing to generate a satisfactory shareholder return. So "good managers" will find ways to increase profit every year and they are being paid substantial amounts for doing so. The only thing they care about is profit.In the end, it is taxpayers being screwed over several times because a lot of the IP from Nexperia, Philips has been developed with subventions from the Dutch government while managers and shareholders have nothing to worry about. They just go to the next company to screw around some more.To me, those managers belong in jail for theft. But that is never going to happen.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 03:16:04 pm
content: Temperance;To expand on your post, large companies privatize profits, but socialize risk and losses.This is specifically true if the company is deemed to be “too large to fail.”

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 03:54:23 pm
content: QuoteIndeed, and that is what happened in Europe starting from the end of the 90's.Meanwhile, the Eu is spending tax money to bring semiconductor manufacturing back to the EU. In an article in 2021 they wrote in some magazine that the EU will spend 680 billion on that.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 06:14:49 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on October 12, 2025, 10:05:20 pmBecause China has an active policy of being unfriendly to the west. And, who could blame them? We'd do the same thing in a similar position. But that shouldn't be impacting us as long as we (the collective western economies) can resist it.We don't deal with Russia for more significant reasons namely the war in Ukraine, but a similar policy of controlling the level of influence China is sensible.We do not have true, unfettered capitalism and we never should have that, the best arrangement is a combination of free markets with regulatory oversight, and in this case the oversight is whether the company that owns the critical infrastructure is friendly to us or not. I would argue NOT in this case.As I said, I've no problem with China buying shares in a company... or, indeed, a Chinese-born investor solely controlling a company (this is not about nationality / race)... the problem comes when the Chinese government has too much control over that company.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 07:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 13, 2025, 06:14:49 pmNote that a substantial fraction of Chinese companies are actually owned by their government as SOEs, “state owned enterprises (quantitative estimates vary), including companies owned by the military. Many are partly owned by the central government.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 13, 2025, 12:38:22 pmWhat happened? Half of the workers in the first world countries lost their jobs to sub-minimum wage workers inthirdunratedworld countries, the third world countries are rapidly poisoning themselves and the rest of the world by dumping toxic waste into the atmosphere and the world's oceans and rivers, and the term "quality control" has became a punch line in a comedy show. In the mean time the world's top industrialists and financiers, such as Mit Romney, are getting filthy rich ateveryone else'sexpense.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 09:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: HwAoRrDk on October 13, 2025, 09:46:24 amI don't think that it's that foreign entities don't place as much value on an industry as the home nation but the very opposite. They see how they can potentially use that industry against it's home country in the future when it's to their (i.e. China's) advantage.I think that the Chinese are much more foresighted than the US or the UK. We look for an immediate payoff but the Chinese think much about future potential.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 10:06:45 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on October 13, 2025, 01:58:58 pmNot the West, you're describing the U.S. But you Brits didn't mind too much in 1917 to 1918 and 1940 to 1945. Did you?Remind me again, how long was it before you could feed yourselves again and you stopped rationing food?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 10:18:57 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 12, 2025, 08:58:37 pmI don't get it TBH. I thought Nexperia was an attempt to sell of the "low value" IP from NXP, to make it more lean and more profit oriented. So they can sell ICs with larger profit margin and invest in technology, instead of participating in the race to the bottom with BC817 clones.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2025, 10:21:52 pm
content: Quotetypical septic always get the dates wrong,and unlike recent forced regime changes their was some validity for kicking off ,especially the second time around,the first was a bit more questionable.Quote9 years to end rationing,but as for feeding ourself,were still waiting,theirs more money to be made setting fields aside for wildlife or planting solar panels rather wasting it on food production

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2025, 08:40:25 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 13, 2025, 10:18:57 pmAnd meanwhile parts of NXP is also shutting down in Nijmegen, so that strategy hasn't worked.In the end, if Nexperia could possibly do the same, the region loses even more university level jobs.I don't think any (western) IC company would be able to make any money doing that. Like, how many 74 or 4000 series devices are on your modern designs? I may sprinkle in a few 1Gxx parts that shouldn't cost me more than 2ct each. So the 6 gate parts shouldn't cost me more than 6x2ct=12ct for a QFN-20 logic chip (I wonder what the silicon/packaging cost ratio is for those parts).. And as soon as some other brand can sell me the same gates for 1,98 ct each I will update the BOM because its jellybean.Much better to be in a business for boutique niche chipsets that are not pin compatible with anything on purpose, that serve a slightly more complex feature, but that don't require enormous silicon/packages. E.g. sell an energy harvesting chipset in a similar sized package for 2-3 euro's each. 20x more revenue, just requires a some R&D.Nexperia is also focussing those chips nowadays, lots of AEC-Q100 too.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2025, 03:34:16 am
content: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202510/1345706.shtmlhttps://chinaeconomicreview.com/china-places-export-controls-on-nexperia/CN restrict export of nexperia (made in china)"all your dies are belong to me"Quotemight as well close down all ops in china right ?remember ARM heist ?https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/the-semiconductor-heist-of-the-century

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2025 05:34:43 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on October 13, 2025, 09:58:21 pmthat has to do with the government planning. Government projects will keep going full steam even when its a total dumpster fire, its insensitive to basically anything but massive opposition. Corporate projects are much more sensitive. This is a hallmark of soviet style management, the projects are ultra hard to shut down, and the statistics/data is very padded. Even when there is a big problem they will just apply increasingly absurd propaganda to keep it running. I imagine it like a milling machine with a long end mill, operated by someone that is told to maintain chip rate, even when they run out of metal to cut and they bore through the vise and start cutting into the table. It could be the same style of thinking applied to the 5 year plans (some of which were great and some of which turned out beyond sad). I assume that is part of the function of the china government involvement in bigger companies, to 'keep them going'.There is some foresight, but there is also coverups and extensive data massaging and stuff that may prevent what a business analysis would make the call to "shut this shit down".And I suspect forced IP sharing, if there is a technical problem that is effecting one company, they basically can force another company to help or just determine how to help. I suspect there might be less profitable cross industry consultant work. Its very easy to demonize a consultant that wants to profit from their knowledge of say tuning a process, understanding of materials, code structure , etc. So if the businesses are highly private and individualized, this could be a expenisve expenditure. But if the friendly party member can just have a few dinner meetings with a company that knows how to do it, they can get you that information for 'free' (probably smaller bribe), since... everything is basically part of the same company. I can imagine annoying expenisve stuff like 'corrosion data', characterizations of materials/parts, guidelines, chemistry information, code... is 'cheap' to share, where in a free market it can be absurdly expensive. Instead of a expensive NDA contract, some matters can be solved with a 'pow wow'. But the technical brains that understand this stuff ain't getting rich.