$295 4-ch 50mHz -OR- $220 2-ch 200mHz Digital Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 05:15:55 am
content: Honestly, I'm down-sizing (need space) and want to get rid of my hulking Tek RM503, 465B, and a Leader scopes.I rarely use scopes, but last time I was watching digital signal train an OBDII break out box.Most likely use:viewing audio amplifier output clippingUPS output waveform shaperoom acoustics, subwoofer placement using FFT on microphoneWill I use it for RF? Probably not (I'm not about to learn radio at 72)Will I use 4-ch? Probably not, but I never had one either.Frankly, a 2-ch 20mHz would probably do the job, but never had 4-ch so curious and 100mHz is just so common and probably not a bad idea for better rise time, square waves, and logic pulse trains.Really torn between the $220 price vs 4-chNOTE: The 4-ch 100mHz is $395 which is simply not worth it to me. (I could keep the 465B since it's 100mHz but I'm just so tired of the huge CRT scopes although I absolutely love Tek stuff including the tube scopes.ALSO: the rule of Tech is DO NOT buy for future use because prices keep coming down. If you buy something for use 5 years for now, 5 years from now you'll be able to buy something better for cheaper.My lever of confusion and indecisiveness is great.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 07:01:19 am
content: Quote from: MrCreosote on November 23, 2024, 05:15:55 amWhich brands / models are you talking about?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 07:06:50 am
content: Sometimes I wish we lived in a slower world where a 200mHz oscilloscope is considered to be high speed.All those photons are too short, I am tired of it.If you meant 200MHz, the answer is oscillations. If you try to build your own amplifiers and stuff, or do switching supplies, you can see fast edge signals ring, even if their not radio frequency signals. Or amplifiers that hang up and oscillate in some high MHz region. Its the difference between seeing a bad loop or being confused.

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 07:37:00 am
content: I'm hooked on the Uni-T Ultra Phosphors which have a 3-view FFT window which includes Waterfall (and 56M deep memory)Models are UPO1054 and UPO1102 (you can see how they matrix the model number: UPOabbc a= series, bb= mHz, c=# channelsA more appropriate question should maybe have been: recommendation for a beginners 1st scope:My usage is strictly diagnosis/repair - I don't built circuits.My major activity was/is computer repairs: bad caps and PCB damage repair under stereo microscopes. Mechanical repairs. Finding microscopic solder cracks, etc.I'm so old school I have Hexacon soldering stations including a Magnum and also the light pencil SMD iron. I want to get a hot air rig and a lab power supply I can run regulated V or A. This hobby has been on a back burner for many decades, but interest is recurring. I'm 72 so don't have much capacity to learn a lot of new stuff.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 07:41:02 am
content: For PSU, audio and general use we have analog scopes, TEK 2465/7/B in US and Hameg 203/204 in FR.10-20 MHz and 2..4 ch is fine for 99% of work.have paid $5..40 for the Hameg in France! Still work fine.For digital scopes we use Yokogawa DL1740 and DL7440.Just my experienceJon

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 09:40:53 am
content: Quote from: jonpaul on November 25, 2024, 07:41:02 amMrCreosote wrote:Quote from: MrCreosote on November 23, 2024, 05:15:55 amBut he also wrote:Quote from: MrCreosote on November 25, 2024, 07:37:00 amSo are you a beginner with scopes or only with digital storage oscilloscopes (DSO)?Uni-T oscilloscopes are not so common here. There is little information from the field.Normally "we" would recommend this one if it can cost more than $250:https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds800x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/#But since you don't want to "learn a lot of new stuff", it might be a bit too complex. I don't know, I have a cheaper scope myself.

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 02:45:03 pm
content: $395 for siglent 4-channel Siglent SDS1104X-E 100 MHz scope is an excellent deal, given that it is unlockable to 200 MHz. But there are even better deals now from both Rigol and Siglent. The idea is to get a 4 channel, less MHz, but that is easily unlockable to more MHz.2-channel? Nah.As far as UNI-T, no. They have crap products, I'm convinced at this point, due to my horrible experience with UT-61E+ and BLE dongle. The dongle itself does not work the meter, and even if it worked, there is no software for the bluetooth on PC. Owon is a much better brand than UNI-T. Realize what UNI-T means, UNI-TREND. Now, realize that their entire lineup of products is not professional.Spend a few dollars more, get a good tool from excellent brands like Rigol and Siglent. Skip UNI-T alltogether, avoid like plague.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: u666sa on November 25, 2024, 02:45:03 pmWhy?

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:29:56 pm
content: i would say nah tooa 4th channel one may get handy very fast, i bought a 2ch and 1 month later i regretted it, the price differences was minimaland now with brand who can receive bw upgrades for free cough, its a good investment for 4ch ...my 2 centsjust not forget to buy the needed bw probes if unlocked ... i resold the 100Mhz ones and bought 200Mhz ones from Amazon, they are very good

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:46:16 pm
content: @coromonadalixYes, more is more and better. That's relatively simple.But if you have a small budget and have to decide between, say, sampling rate and 2 or 4 channels, which is more important?

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 05:05:03 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on November 25, 2024, 09:40:53 amI'm very familiar with scopes and really interested in getting spectrum analysis features - the Uni-T waterfalls really caught my eye - no one has them The waterfall would be useful tuning pianos and other transient signals like room acoustics (but I doubt these low end scopes are fast enough to capture room dynamics - maybe reverb in a church. The waterfall is like having a microscope for the first time - you put everything you can think of under it.I don't design circuits and have yet to do any kind of RF repair. This is "new stuff" I refer to. My main effort is diagnosis and repair and I have never fixed a radio. I wouldn't rule it out, but I would definitely no invest in RF repair capability - by the time that might happen, 1 or 2 generations of improvements/cost reductions will have happened.Never invest in tech you plan to use in the future."Beginner" was aimed at how to address my original question: Looking for consensus choosing which of 2-ch/100mHz -v- 4-ch/50mHz given no other information.

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 05:38:15 am
content: Quote from: u666sa on November 25, 2024, 02:45:03 pmUNLOCKING: I totally forgot about that. Will probably have to re-evaluate: ability to have 200mHz for a 100mHz price is nice but I doubt I need that at all. But it does sweeten getting a 4-ch.(It really annoys me that they do stuff like that. If it's a 200mHz scope for the same manufacturing cost, set the price for desired profit and quit selling the 100 detune. But you can make more profit if you do the 100/200 dance. NOTE: companies that do that rub me the wrong way - it indicates they are greedy.Uni-T: All I know about them is a lot of people like their IR imaging guns. In fact, looking at digital scops over the years, I never heard UniT mentioned. They make some expensive stuff and they have insanely deep memory 56M in the 2 scops I mentioned. Their MSO7204X 2GHz 4Ch Mixed Signal is a $16,000 scope - so they have a pro and a consumer line?HANTEK: This was the first cheap digital scope I became aware of years ago and without doing any research is one I would probably get if I wanted the lowest cost. However there is a recent model that had all kinds of problems with firmware I believe that was quite the "hobby" to straighten out. That really soured me on H.TEKTRONIX: I'd like to know what Chinese company manufactures Tek digital scopes and what other brands.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 06:35:03 am
content: Quote from: MrCreosote on November 26, 2024, 05:38:15 amGet over it !All scope manufacturers have been restricting BW with SW for decades, all of them !And BTW, if you really wanna be part of an engineering forum learn to use the correct denominator.M = Mega u = Micro

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 07:06:21 am
content: I would go with 4ch over 2ch any day.Unless you know for sure, based on what you do, that you'll have situations where you can't get by with 50mhz and need the 200mhz.Being able to show 4 things on screen is just more useful more of the time.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 08:08:07 am
content: @psi@MrCreosoteTautech is right. You should pay attention to that:mHz = Millihertz. 200mHz means 0.2Hz, i.e. “once every five seconds”.MHz = Megahertz. 200MHz means “200 million times per second”.And while we're at it: Hertz is not a plural.1Hz is also pronounced 1 hertz, not 1 hert or hurt.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 09:13:01 am
content: We found over decades CRT scopes can have advantages in some situations especially EMI, analog, audio.We have no bias and use both digital and analog CRT as needed.99% of the time simple design, debug, repai is fine with a 2 ch analog 10-20 MHz.Analog scopes can last decades unlike the cheap digitals.Some of our TEK are veterans from 19070s..1990s.Our Yokogawa digitals are circa 1990s..2000s.Enjoy,Jon

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 09:29:53 am
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on November 26, 2024, 08:08:07 ampsi was just taking the piss, he well knows MHz as by now he should've improved his scope to 500 of them.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 09:53:26 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 26, 2024, 09:29:53 amThe problem is too serious to make fun of.Quote from: Psi on November 26, 2024, 07:06:21 amBut why?Isn't it more of a fashion thing?As I said, there is this “more-is-better” logic and many here seem to be in sales and for them more ($) is better anyway.Isn't it just like four-wheel drive in cars?Sounds kind of good, but most people living in moderate zones in cities don't really get anything out of it.I think for 70% of scope work one channel is enough, for 99% of the work two channels are enough and for the rest there are solutions with DSOs (reference waveforms, saved waveforms..).If I really need to “observe” 4 channels at the same time, I can add my handheld scope.I don't doubt that 4 channels can be more convenient and sometimes even necessary, but isn't the importance for the hobbyist a bit exaggerated these days?I'm talking about when you have to divide up a budget sensibly.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 01:19:59 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on November 26, 2024, 09:53:26 amIt is more like having a car with 2 or 4 seats...If you are only doing quick poking around the circuits (service scenario) to verify there is signal and that it roughly looks the part, all you need is 1 ch.If you are trying to look into some detail, be it analog or digital, then you need as many channels as you can.With modern slow serial buses having up to 4 signals, 4 analog channels go a long way..2ch is a weird in between combination, I either need only 1 or more than 2.Today hobby users work a lot with Arduinos and microcontrollers and looking at SPI buses is common.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 02:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul onTodayat 09:13:01 am

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 03:35:15 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2024, 01:19:59 pmThis is a good example of a de-facto standard that many people don't need.I have a car with 5 seats, but it's almost exactly like an oscilloscope: 70% of the time one seat is enough, 99.9% of the time two seats are enough. I've never used more than three seats, as far as I can remember. But hey, "normal" cars have five seats. If I had to pay 12% more for the rear seats, I would have decided against them.Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2024, 01:19:59 pmWith 2 channels you can compare two (or successively n) signals (phase shift etc.), that's fundamental in my opinion.Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2024, 01:19:59 pmThere are logic analyzers for SPI etc., no?

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 05:21:33 am
content: Thanks for all the tips. My bad about the M vs m - I really didn't give that a thought. But I did know to capitalize H in my fence.Again thinking of what my Real Question is:My electronics bench is 5' x 2' and I do not have room for my Tek 465B which I love dearly.So keep the Tek if I get backed into a corner and need a real oscilloscope, but to keep space on the bench, get something throwaway cheap: Like AliExpress Hantek $172 or Hanmatek (! LOL) $125...OR Something completely different:Get a decent HANDHELD OSCILLOSCOPE which would also be handy portable - something even a digital oscilloscope really isn't.This portability is something I would use.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 05:34:45 am
content: Quote from: MrCreosote on November 27, 2024, 05:21:33 amA 7" display DSO is VERY portable and as you're limited for space as I was many years ago when I ditched CRO's and went entirely DSO.A handheld scope is in no way a replacement for a DSO !But this is to be a new world for you and I understand the apprehension albeit misguided.Sale of your Tek 465B could help fund something decent.....

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 10:54:40 am
content: Quote from: MrCreosote on November 27, 2024, 05:21:33 amYou would have to define your needs more precisely.So far, I'm not quite sure what you need, even roughly.A 7-seater car? A pickup truck? A Ferrari?The handhelds are fun and often sufficient, but as Tautech says, they don't replace a benchtop DSO.Even the cheapest Hantek offers much more for the money, including fundamental things like sampling rate, sensitivity, trigger options etc...But if, as you say, you value a fast, high-resolution FFT, then the cheapest scopes are not enough.The handling of the Hantek, for example, is sometimes quite fiddly. There are people who are driven crazy by this.I don't know what to advise you. Sometimes there are things you don't even think about. For example, fan noise or start-up times.This can also annoy some people.That's where handhelds or cheap scopes can have an advantage.But as I said above, I think the Siglent SDS800X HD models currently offer the best value for little money.https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds800x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

author: Smepic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 01:04:46 pm
content: Take a look at the Rigol DHO804. They are decent scopes (12bit, 1M FFT, hack up to 200MHz), small and "semi-portable". By "semi-portable" i mean that can be powered via USB-C power bank .And this week they are on salefor $279.EDIT: Correction, 279€ in Europe (30% off from 399€). USA/Canada are 374$ (15% off from 439$).

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 03:33:10 pm
content: and theses Rigol DHO804 could be put on computer monitor arm ... for space concerns ??they have vesa mount holes

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2024, 08:00:12 pm
content: What am I going to use it for? That's my problem too - could be anything.Last time I used the 465B I was looking to see the communication train between the scan tool and auto PCM using an OBDII breakout box.I would never in a million years thought I'd be doing that.My 465B is more than what I need - so if push comes to shove, I don'tneedan oscilloscope BUT I know if one was readily available on my bench, I would use it more.A handheld would be useful since I could use anywhere, garage, house, bench or offsite. I purposely bot a BlueTooth Data Logging DMM (OWON "BEST") to plot heat cycles in a muffle furnace and also battery charging voltage. Very useful.For years I've been wanting to get a Fluke Scopemeter but just too expensive.The OWON HDS272S handheld and the cheap FNIRSI $178 2-ch 100MHZ DSOFound this Black Friday 110MHz 2-ch Hanmatek w/FFT and poor memory depth for $135 shipped:https://www.amazon.com/HANMATEK-Bandwidth-Oscilloscope-Channels-Professional/dp/B0833YFNKPAt this moment, if I was forced to buy something. It'd be the $135.I wonder if BF prices for this stuff will drop on Friday or Cyber Monday?

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 08:09:36 am
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on November 27, 2024, 03:33:10 pmThere is room for it w/o arm however, the arm would be quite cool but don't think there is anywhere to mount it. The bench is an antique secretary's table which I should sell and get a proper bench but that is way, way down in the list.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 10:19:20 am
content: Whatever you decide, I wouldnotrecommend a Fnirsi 1014D.With the space you have available, perhaps a Zeeweii DSO3D12 would be quite suitable?You can put it in the drawer after use if necessary.Of course, it's far from being a benchtop DSO and the FFT is also very rudimentary, but you wouldn't have to tidy up your desk.The Owon HDS242S would also be a option, however, this has no FFT at all.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256805737614947.html

author: MrCreosote
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 04:34:32 am
content: Quote from: u666sa on November 25, 2024, 02:45:03 pmKerry did a teardown of the Uni-T.To all: what do you think of the build quality? (why Uni-T? only they have FFT Waterfall)

author: deadly_penguin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 10:00:03 pm
content: If space is the concern I'd take a PicoScope any day of the week over pretty much anything else, despite the price.The 2000 and 3000 series both come in Mixed Signal varieties (16 channel) which is quite handy; at work I've got both a Pico 3200 MSO and a nice big Agilent MSO6000 - unless I need the better analogue performance/extra analogue channels on the Agilent I usually prefer the PicoScope since it's vastly better than the Agilent for mixed-signal stuff.You could try a Micsig? They look nice, quite compact, but I've not had one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 10:15:47 pm
content: Quote from: deadly_penguin on December 01, 2024, 10:00:03 pmMicsigs are nice.The footprint isn't really any smaller than my Rigol DHO804. Their huge advantage, space-wise, is that the probes connect along the top instead of on the front.All 'scopes should do that... having the probes stick out the front eats up alotof desk space.(or on the side... same thing)