Which scope with isolated inputs? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 03:58:40 pm
content: I need to select an oscilloscope for one of my customers. I think it is best if they get one which has isolated inputs so the can measure between any random point without needing to care about common grounds. I've looked at the Fluke Scopemeters 190 series but their memory is very short. Keysight has similar devices but they don't seem to have isolated inputs. So far the best I have found is the BK precision 2515 (2 channels 60MHz) but I'm wondering if there are better choices.

author: richpike
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 05:17:37 pm
content: Rohde just introduced a new handheld with isolated inputs:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/product/rth-productstartpage_63493-156160.html-Rich

author: commongrounder
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 05:47:31 pm
content: What is the purchase budget? The least expensive isolated input, handheld scope is the Hantek DSO-1000S series. They have 1meg memory.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 05:49:20 pm
content: Take a look at the Tektronix THS720P or the newer successors

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 06:10:04 pm
content: As usual the Tektronix offerings are ridiculous. The BK precision I have found is around $2200 and has 1 or 2 Mpts. The THS3000 series only has 10kpts and costs twice as much.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 06:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 06:10:04 pmI am almost 100% certain that the BK Precision 2515 is a rebadged Siglent SHS1062, while the BK Precision 2516 is a rebadged Siglent SHS1102. The Siglent version costs about half of the price of the BK Precision rebadge.

author: robert_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 08:02:34 pm
content: If you want something with any kind of performance:R+S RTH. Around 4k-ish for a decent version.We already saw a demo of this one, and its by far the best option for anything with isolated channels.NO comparison to anything from Tek or Fluke. Both of these are 20year old designs (Tek THS720/THS2000 is based on the TDS220/224...)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 08:09:59 pm
content: I looked at the R&S and this seems like a nice option but for some reason it does not have CAN decoding. I'll skip the BK precission/Siglent due to the usual Siglent firmware problems according to several threads on this forum.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 08:45:20 pm
content: You could give the Micsig a try. I had a play around with one a few weeks ago, and the interface really isn't that bad. If anything, they need better manuals, but the UI and keypad designs of every handheld scope ever are basically cloning the Scopemeters anyways.Also, this guy made a few videos about the Siglent:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-shs-1062-review/

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 08:54:06 pm
content: How come that the isolation adds so much to the cost?Would it become cheaper if scope manufacturers would introduce isolated front-ends in scopes for the masses?It almost seems like a contradiction that entry scopes for dummies do not have isolated front-ends to cope with beginner's mistakes.Every scope directed for the educational market should include an isolated front-end in my opinion, and it should be more than affordable if Rigol and Pintek enter a strategic partnership.Best of both worlds: Chinese digital scope and Taiwanese isolated probeWhen will #1 at Rigol take up the phone to make call with #1 at Pintek? =)Looking forward to the joint press release in China and Taiwan!

author: Macman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:15:21 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 08:54:06 pmIt does add significant cost to provide isolated inputs with a high bandwidth.Why would Pintek be of any help. They don't produce any isolated probes. They do make a range of differential probes but that is a different from isolated probes.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:35:44 pm
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on January 08, 2016, 06:28:01 pmI'm quite sure you're correct and this is not the only Siglent rebrand in the BK Precision range.http://www.bkprecision.com/products/oscilloscopes/2515-60-mhz-1-gsa-s-non-isolated-handheld-digital-storage-oscilloscope.htmlhttp://www.siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=93&T=2&tid=2Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 08:09:59 pmI'm not aware of any outstanding FW issues with either of these Siglent SHS series and they share the same FW for the 800 and 1000 models. Off the top of my head these have been around for ~4 years, maybe more.AFAIK the only difference is the SHS1000 series have the isolated channel inputs.

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:46:57 pm
content: To me it appears that most of the insulated oscilloscopes out there are hantek or siglent or owon, in different clothes, usually.Each and every one of the oem version seems to have it's quirks and bugs. Althought the rebranded ones may have a firmware from a completely different manufacturer, and thus some of the bugs may be fixed.Depending on the needs of the user, a second hand tektronix THS700 series may be most convenient solution. To get one at a decent price may require a little bit of time, but ebay or government sales may offer good chances.If a more performing one/new/4 channel model is required, up to my knowledge, Chauvin-Arnoux/Metrix has a fairly complete set of products, and may be worth to look at.IIRC, Fluke is quite limited functionality wise and connectivity wise. The same hold for the Keysight models.Another approach would be to ask for a demo, so that you have first hand experience of the firmware quality.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:47:46 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 08:54:06 pmQuote from: Macman on January 08, 2016, 09:15:21 pmAren't those the same thing?Note that Pintek is working on a 100 MHz low-voltage high-sensitivity differential probe that works nicely together with the upgraded Rigol DS1054Z. They could integrate this probe in the actual scope. I am not saying they would have to do it for all 4 channels, but they could do it for 2 channels.This would add around 300 USD in current pricing levels, but in case it becomes a mass product, the additional price might be reduced to 150 USD as a whole, which I definitely would be willing to pay for the extra level of security.For reference:My original email to Pintek:"Hello,I read more information about the DP-30HS differential probe.Really nice feature set.Only a pity that you don't have the low voltage (65V) high sensitivity (1mVrms) differential probe in 100MHz version. If you would have 4 of those differential probes, you could turn an upgraded Rigol DS1054Z into a fully-fledged 4-channel 100MHz digital isolated scope :)This would be a unique piece of equipment!Why does high bandwidth (100 MHz) always go hand in hand with high voltages (+1KV)?Do you see my point about low voltage, high speed differential probe with 100 MHz?It could turn every hobbyist's 100 MHz scope into an isolated scope, without loosing bandwidth. Hobbyists working on digital design projects, need the bandwidth, and at same time can make mistakes when measuring in their circuits. So I believe it makes sense.Regards,Pascal"The feedback from Pintek:"Dear Pascal,Thank you for your e-mail.I have passed your info to our engineer.We will develop a new model of different probe.The spec is:Bandwidth: 100MHz,Voltage: 65VSensitivity: 1mVrmsBy the way, can you please let me know your location? In Europe? Or US?Thank you"

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:51:34 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 08:54:06 pmTrue isolation requires all I/O's to be isolated as well, quite doable but costs money and time, not to mention PCB space.QuoteATM cost, and until a manufacturer is brave enough, things will stay the same as they are now.QuoteHELL NO.How could one teach safe scope usebasics?Scenario:Technician graduates, gets employed, connects employers DSO to a DUT as he/she would have at Uni and BANG.OK they didn't know any better.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:55:10 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 09:47:46 pmPlease provide source for this claim.

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 09:58:29 pm
content: Strictly speaking no. They are not.Isolated front-end means galvanically isolated.Depending on the implementation, the signal may be digitized and then the digital data is transmitted over an optical link. In other circumstances a transformer is used.A differential probe, in a way, puts a very high impedance within the ground loop and that's it.

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:02:50 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 09:51:34 pmIndeed, nothing keeps you wary of voltage shocks more than pain...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:16:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 08:09:59 pmI'd be interested to know ifanyisolated channel DSO has decoding.

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:27:50 pm
content: I have a Tek THS-720P which I bought brand new in 1996 and still use every day, and which is on it's 4th (homemade) battery. I also have a fancy-pants AEMC (or is it Metrix or Chauvin-Arnoux?) OX-7104 which I bought 2 years ago and is already on its 2nd battery (homemade) and which I now only take out of its case when I need to monitor more than 2 isolated channels and/or more than 1 Rogowski current probe. At first I thought my dislike of the AEMC scope was simply because it was new and I was being a stick in the mud, but over time I realized that I preferred the Tek scope because it really does have a superior UI, a better system for handling cursors, and it doesn't need special powered probes... The latter issue is particularly annoying if you work with power electronics (which is a prime reason for wanting isolated/floating channels) because a lot of times you want to clip onto a big bus bar or the like and the rinky-dink little grabber at the end of the probe tip just won't cut it. So I would recommend to the OP that he look for a THS-720P on ebay and make a new NiCd battery for it.That said, the Rohde & Schwarz model someone suggested above looks pretty interesting...

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:31:14 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 09:55:10 pmFor reference:My original email to Pintek:"Hello,I read more information about the DP-30HS differential probe.Really nice feature set.Only a pity that you don't have the low voltage (65V) high sensitivity (1mVrms) differential probe in 100MHz version. If you would have 4 of those differential probes, you could turn an upgraded Rigol DS1054Z into a fully-fledged 4-channel 100MHz digital isolated scope :)This would be a unique piece of equipment!Why does high bandwidth (100 MHz) always go hand in hand with high voltages (+1KV)?Do you see my point about low voltage, high speed differential probe with 100 MHz?It could turn every hobbyist's 100 MHz scope into an isolated scope, without loosing bandwidth. Hobbyists working on digital design projects, need the bandwidth, and at same time can make mistakes when measuring in their circuits. So I believe it makes sense.Regards,Pascal"The feedback from Pintek:"Dear Pascal,Thank you for your e-mail.I have passed your info to our engineer.We will develop a new model of different probe.The spec is:Bandwidth: 100MHz,Voltage: 65VSensitivity: 1mVrmsBy the way, can you please let me know your location? In Europe? Or US?Thank you"I have asked them for a follow-up today:"Hello Pintek,I wanted to follow-up about my idea which I suggested last year, about making a low-voltage (65V) high-sensitivity (1mVrms) differential probe with 100 MHz bandwidth.Did your engineer find a feasible and cost-effective solution for this technical design challenge?Would it become cheaper if scope manufacturers would introduce isolated front-ends in scopes for the masses?It almost seems like a contradiction that entry scopes for dummies do not have isolated front-ends to cope with beginner's mistakes.Every scope directed for the educational market should include an isolated front-end in my opinion.What will be the next step? A strategic partnership with Rigol to build scopes for the educational market that have isolated front-end?Best of both worlds: Chinese digital scope and Taiwanese isolated probe =)Only joking, but it would make sense for the educational market, if the price can be kept down.Regards,Pascal"

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:31:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 10:16:25 pmThe Micsig can, supposedly:http://www.micsig.com/en/product_detail.asp?id=19"Serial bus decode UART?LIN?CAN?SPI?I2C"

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 10:16:25 pmThe R&S scope offers I2C, SPI and UART decoding as an option.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 10:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 09:51:34 pmBuy the time the technician graduates, all scopes would be isolated anyhow, if this new paradigm shift becomes a reality, giving everbody the freedom to measure between 2 random measure points. Exactly the way it should have been from day one, as all you want to measure is the potential difference between 2 measure points. Nobody should have to care about which measure point is and has to be ground. Why do you have the tip and the clip in the first place otherwise (2 measure points and not 1!)?. In the current constellation they could even consider to drop the clip as it always has to be ground anyhow

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 10:39:17 pmWith 50+ years of scope manufacture behind us now, if it was that easy it would have been done for the masses decades ago. Instead we've had various methods to allow freedom of the probe reference (GND) connection, some safe, Differential probes, Differential plugins and other not safe although often used by experienced techs.Trouble is, we have the 50 years of those scopes on the market nearly all with grounded channel input BNC's so significant change to the existing understanding of safe scope use might likely confuse the novice to thinking they can clip a probe reference lead to anywhere. Isolated channel scopes arespecialistitems for specialised use and their additional cost of construction puts them in a league that not all can enjoy.You can't just modify FW to create one, the HW must be suited for purpose.HH isolation is a lot easier to design, there are less I/O's to consider and seemingly manufacturers think so too.Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 10:36:25 pmYes, but not asoneoption, however wouldn't it be nice if it was abenchDSO?

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on January 08, 2016, 10:39:17 pmThat's beyond the point, I think.You are simply suggesting that all the telescopes should have smoked lenses so that everyone can freely look at the sun with it.A tool is simply a tool. It shouldn't be idiot proof so that every one can be safe around it. On the other hand, the user should be given the education to use the tool, rather than the freedom to fiddle with it.What if a mechanic starts loosening the nuts on your car just to try out its new wrench?

author: hibone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on January 08, 2016, 10:31:45 pmIt doesn't seem there is any indication on the maximum voltage rating between channels. I may be wrong but the channels may have a shared ground in the MS3000 series of micsigs scopes. That could be nasty.

author: richpike
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 11:06:32 pmIt appears there are some promotions on it that make the decode/trigger options free (along with the MSO and advanced trigger) - but it's only on the 4ch models:https://www.scope-of-the-art.com/en/lab-promotion?rs_cid=sota_lab-promotion_2015_landingpage_rsint_scope-promotions_2014_landingpageThe 2ch offer is different:https://www.scope-of-the-art.com/en/field-promotion?rs_cid=sota_field-promotion_2015_landingpage_rsint_scope-promotions_2014_landingpage-Rich

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2016, 11:43:22 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 08, 2016, 11:06:32 pmIt would seem R&S get around this ^^^ for their HH by offering wireless LAN connectivity as an option, but is their std RJ-45 LAN connection isolated ? Possibly not.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 12:25:07 am
content: LAN is isolated by definition so no problems there.

author: robert_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 12:59:56 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 08:09:59 pmCAN decoders (and a few others) are under development, as i heard from R+S.Oh, and as for isolation:i measured around 30pf from channel (common/BNC shell) to channel, about the same from channel to the remaining parts (ie, logic port etc). Pretty good, floating measurements with some tens of V/ns common mode voltage work fine (didnt really work on THS720).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 01:33:43 pm
content: Still the decoding options from R&S are prohibitively expensive. I see no way to sell it to my customer that having CAN decoding on a 3000 euro scope costs 1000 euro extra. I'll already have a hard time selling the isolated scope for that price when they can buy a scope with a similar bandwidth starting from 500 euro.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 08:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 08, 2016, 03:58:40 pmThis can be addressed to some degree by use of any HH DSO forone channel but no moreunless there is isolation between subsequent channels and if isolation is only occasionally required this may be sufficient, but:HH specs often specify the max voltage elevation above mains GND that is permitted while operating on battery power and this need be observed.HoweverAfter 3 pages of this thread the OP has not yet stated a required spec.Be it:BUDGET ?# of channels ?BW ?Memory depth ?Sampling rate?I/O's ?HH or bench top ? (Is high portability required)Other features?It would seem there is as requirement for Decoding.....which types?I'm truly not wanting to offend the OP in asking this and while there is some choice of HH isolated channel DSO's available, for Bench top isolated channel DSO's the selection is very limited.Currently, benchtop DSO isolation when needed can be provided in 2 accepted (safe) common ways:A-B, uses 2 channels for 1 measurement and suffers from poor CMRR.Differential probes, for which a set of 2or4 will cost more than many DSO's.So do we take a moment to explore the commonly required/wanted specifications of an isolated channel bench top DSO?WHY?There will be manufacturers that will see this threadand the feature set members can wisely suggest.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 08:56:38 pm
content: Actually I wanted to compile some sort of a list with potentially viable choices. First step of selection is to get an overview of what is out there in order to set realistic requirements. If money needs to be spend then it needs to be spend but there has to be good value for money.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 09:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 09, 2016, 08:56:38 pmTo share with us?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 10:00:58 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 09, 2016, 09:01:10 pmOfcourse... Sharing is caring! working on it...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2016, 11:21:08 pm
content: The customer in question does a lot with batteries for vehicles and many of those batteries have a switched minus which gives all kind of potentials between the communication ports and the rest of the vehicle. They want to use an oscilloscope to look at currents & voltages coming in & out of vehicles and also look at what happens during a short circuit. Currents can exceed 1kA for several micro-seconds. However the people over there are not the kind that use an oscilloscope everyday. Combine that with batteries which can push enough power into a probe to vaporise it in seconds it is clear the measurement solution needs to have some safety build into it. Also some tests can be destructive; the easiest way to capture an event without needing to rely on a trigger is to put the oscilloscope in roll mode and press stop when the event has occured. For this purpose the oscilloscope needs at least 1Mpts of memory. So far I have been using current shunts, a differential probe and a normal oscilloscope (Yokogawa DL1740) to do measurements for them. Those measurements have also showed that a rugged, portable scope could be beneficial; my DL1740 had a rough landing on a concrete floor which didn't make it look better.I also mentioned vehicles and with that comes the CAN bus. They do have a CAN analyser so decoding on a scope isn't necessary but they will want to look at the signal waveforms. But even then they could create a ground loop between an oscilloscope with a current shunt connected and the CAN bus.So far I have compiled this list:HandheldsKeysightU1620A $3500isolated inputs, 2Mpts (1ch) / 1Mpts (2ch), CAN triggering, VGA color, 200MHz BW, DVMR&SRTH1002 $3400isolated inputs, 500kpts/250kpts, color, 60MHz, DVM+ 4 channel version available (no DVM).+ upgradeable to 500MHzBench modelsLecroyWaveSurfer 3022 $340010Mpts, 200MHz- no isolated inputs so potential short when regular probes used or other grounded equipment- diff probe neededKeysightDSOX 3012T $35001Mpts effective, 60MHz- no isolated inputs so potential short when regular probes used or other grounded equipment- diff probe neededI also looked at offerings from Rigol (desktop) and Siglent (handheld) but the bugs and limits (Siglent's handhelds have a normal and deep mode indicating something hasn't been properly integrated) are preventing me from considering these. Fluke, Digimess, Metrix and Tektronix handhelds all have too short memories. B&K Precision seems to be a rebranded Siglent indeed! Tektronix' DPO2000 series could be a desktop contender but unfortunately the display resolution got stuck in the 90's.All in all it seem the Keysight U1620A comes out on top because it has CAN triggering so at least it will produce a stable picture of a CAN bus.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 12:12:56 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 09, 2016, 11:21:08 pmMinor error, 4 Ch version has DVM and uses channel the BNC inputs but the fully featured DMM is only in the 2 ch versions that have the Banana sockets.With all the proposed candidates you've listed, for the money involved wouldn't you consider a much cheaper benchtop DSO with Differential probes could offer considerable savings?Is that not worth exploring?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 12:55:11 am
content: Which low cost DSO isn't buggy with the currently available firmware and has a reasonable screen resolution and the required memory depth? The whole low-end range from Keysight and Tektronix are a no-go for that reason. The Rigol 1000Z series still has many issues. But my main concern is that my customer will (not could) create a ground loop when using a probe or a shunt combined with a PC connected to another part of the battery. A differential probe in combination with a current shunt isn't a good idea (some are 0.5mV/A !) because you really don't want the extra attenuation which comes with the differential probe. Another option would be a clamp on current probe with a >1kA DC-1MHz range. I have not seen one so far.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 10:35:28 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 10, 2016, 12:55:11 amI know too well the position you find yourself in......customer has some experience but not quite enough so one can let them loose with the appropriate tools and know they'll be OK.Do I also correctly suspect you might be driving them remotely?The other factor that's not been discussed is purchase timeframe and that also relates to your so-called buggy low cost DSO's as they progressively become more mature.So let's explore Benchtop DSO's further:BW 60 MHz + ?Sampling 1 Gsa/s +?Channels 2 or 4Memory 1 Mpt +QuoteDefine reasonable?The above are potentially easy and many DSO's could be suitable until we get to Isolated channelsandCAN decoding. So let's address isolation at this time as this requirementcanbe addressed in other ways.Needs are:Voltage and current measurements (shunt type)Resolution required for each unstated.We suspect current measurement will need to be DC level capable and therefore the simplest is with a shunt and for isolation a Differential probe is a perfectly acceptable solution.From a know brand differential probe manufacturer.Just one from their range:1mV High Sensitivity Model65 Vp-p/30MHz Max.3 Range: x1/ x2/ x10Input Impedance (Between Input): 2M? // 1.7PFSo that leaves CAN decoding......And so-called buggy DSO's for a cost effective solution.I know there soon be further information to assist you by way of a respected members review of the SDS1000X to add to the only apparent other one hastily done by Dave.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 12:38:48 pm
content: The purchase timeframe is yesterday so I need something which is useable today. If there was more time I might have put another candidate on the list with bench scopes.Reasonable screen resolution is >=640x480. CAN decoding isn't strictly necessary but CAN triggering is probably very usefull. A differential probe with only 65V peak capability isn't going to cut it. The voltages they work with can be / sometimes are higher than that.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 01:56:01 pm
content: It appears to be an exercise in muppet-proofing.Would it be viable to hack the probes by putting inline fuses in the ground clip leads so mistakes with an ordinary scope become non-catastrophic?

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 08:16:40 pm
content: At a customer I work for, we have a couple of fluke 225c, and if I remember correctly, it has CAN decoding. It a very basic scope (for $$$$), but it is really robust and can be used by people that have no clue how to operate a scope (which is the mean reason the customer ONLY allows isolated scope that are CAT III rated...)

author: _Wim_
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 08:20:32 pm
content: Just looked it up, it is only bus healt monitoring, no actual decoding...http://www.tequipment.net/Fluke225Cscope.html

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 09:01:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on January 10, 2016, 01:56:01 pmI wouldn't call it muppet-proofing. Even I could make a mistake and batteries are typically very unforgiving. Fuses in probes don't sound like a good idea either. The battery management boards inside the batteries have some less-well protected interfaces as well which would still be blown up because a fuse is too slow. Secondly over time some of the probes will have blown fuses which nobody cares to replace so every now and then time gets wasted by probes which don't work.Anyway, I have recommended the U1620A to them and the R&S RTH1002 as an alternative but to me the U1620A is the best fit for that particular customer.