Yes, I Love Short-O-Matic Capacitors - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 10:39:20 pm
content: I'm looking for .01uF class Y caps to replace the death caps in an old radio...and found these "beauties"...https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/capacitors-and-resistors/emerson-paper-in-oil-tone-capacitors.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2021-06-gp&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhtrrrL738AIVjeDICh2XyAHEEAQYAyABEgJffPD_BwEPaper-oil caps...in 2021...for "tone".TBH, I don't care if audiophools fry their crap with this...I just hope that they don't leave these fresh bombs in something us sane people will end up with.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 11:40:42 pm
content: Audiophoolery aside, the originals lasted several decades, it's likely these will too.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2021, 11:55:48 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on June 01, 2021, 11:40:42 pmAnd for 20 cents instead of 20 bucks I could get a ceramic or plastic cap that'll likely last a century.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 12:21:10 am
content: Wait ...Howmany do you get for $19.99?ONE?

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 12:44:37 am
content: I wonder if these are a custom run or some relabeled $5 commercial parts.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 01:08:20 am
content: It is an easy sell to a reasonably big market. Since guitars are already expensive, "upgrading" for $20 does not sound like a bad deal. And you only need 1-2 per guitar, so on individual level total cost is not that significant.They obviously don't make any difference, but $20 is pretty cheap by audiophool standards, so why not?Plus it is not like StewMac are known for their generosity.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 04:16:21 am
content: A website like that is never complete without a Calafornian cancer warning. Which this one does have

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 05:57:57 am
content: The reviews are pretty good also.One mentioned their guitar sounding "too muddy" with a big cap so when they got a smaller cap it sounds bright all of a sudden!Wow i wonder what the µF thing means? Doesn't matter, it's the brand that makes it sound this way, no doubt.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:05:15 am
content: Quote from: Raj on June 02, 2021, 04:16:21 amThese might actually be full of PCBs and actually cause cancer...I mean...does it say certified by anyone anywhere? I doubt anyone will certify a paper capacitor.

author: Daixiwen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:48:00 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 02, 2021, 06:05:15 amI'm not a guitarist but I don't think you are supposed to eat or smoke them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:59:22 am
content: Quote from: Raj on June 02, 2021, 04:16:21 amIf you sell virtually anything to a customer in California, it is in your best interest to have that stupid warning. Prop 65 was crafted on good intentions but it is an absolute joke. It covers a massive range of different substances with a very low bar on the "may cause cancer" determination, and it takes absolutely no account of quantity or form. If you sell something that does contain some tiny amount of any substance on that massive list and you didn't display the warning you are potentially liable for penalties. The end result of course is that everyone just slaps the warning on everything because it's easier to do that than it is to figure out whether the thing you're selling actually needs it or not. Thus the thing is entirely worthless and California is the butt of jokes all over the world but the powers that be seem blissfully unaware. They *felt* like they were "doing something" to make the world better and that's all that matters to some people.Regarding the paper oil capacitors, I wouldn't use them in anything but I don't really think it's a problem. The old ones made in the 1930s often lasted well into the 80s and beyond and I don't think I've ever seen one fail spectacularly, they just get electrically leaky and go way up in measured capacitance. When used in electric guitars they are not exposed to high voltage.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 11:05:55 am
content: It's good to know that they are mil-spec. so they will be able to withstand the combat stress while you play your guitar in a tank battle.Quote

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 12:01:25 pm
content: Some paper/oil caps have pretty hefty dielectgric absorbtion, about as bad as electrolytics. So you may get on than just a capacitor.For the contriction with glass hermetics seals this price is not too bad, but I wished they would have an old style wire wound resistor inside and not a mediocre cap.

author: Wolfram
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 01:03:13 pm
content: Arguing that a capacitor for a craft guitar build is too expensive and technically inferior to a modern PP film cap is a bit like arguing that a wedding ring could have better structural integrity if made out of titanium compared to gold. Personally I prefer using modern film caps to replace bad paper-wax parts in sixty year old Hammond organs, but I could also see why other people would disagree with me on this point.Anyways, hermetic PIO caps are not that problematic in terms of longevity AFAIK? In my experience, paper-wax capacitors develop leakage due to moisture ingress, and paper-zinc X capacitors are notorious for failing in across-mains applications due to moisture ingress, but hermetic PIO caps shouldn't have any of these issues. A lot of PFC capacitors on the high voltage grid use a PIO construction, with the reliability requirements in this application there can't be anything inherently wrong with the technology. No engineer should use a capacitor without an agency safety rating in an across-the-line or line-ground application anyways, so that shouldn't be an issue with these capacitors.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 01:08:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on June 02, 2021, 12:01:25 pmWhy do you think there is a need to burn in audio components?I like the retro style of the components. They certainly got that heatshrink design and naming right. I wonder if they buy the part from China or do it locally though. Or maybe NOS parts?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 01:56:38 pm
content: The best caps for audio are KP/MKP and KS/MKS. IIRC, someone measured also various audiophoolery caps and none of them were any better. Waste of money, or victim of cognitive dissonance.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 03:42:25 pm
content: Add C0G to the list of 'good stuff for audio' caps.Unlike the film parts you can reflow them without extensive pain.Regards, Dan.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 05:10:43 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 02, 2021, 01:56:38 pmI'm as skeptical as anyone, but when it's something for a musical instrument "better" is subjective. You may not want a really good capacitor, it's entirely possible that a really lousy capacitor will result in the particular sound a person is looking for. It's common that one *wants* to color/distort the sound of an electric guitar, completely different from audio reproduction where the goal is for the output to be as close as possible to what went in.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 05:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 02, 2021, 05:10:43 pmRight, of course ... and that's what the myriad of effects pedals and boxes are for.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on June 02, 2021, 03:42:25 pmCeramic caps aren't a good idea for audio. But they are great for RF.Edit: C0G could be fine, but typical values for audio applications are quite expensive.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 02, 2021, 05:10:43 pmA few days ago xraytonyb has done two short videos performing a small experiment with a 1 kHz tone and its first harmonic at 2 kHz. The feedback is quite interesting.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2021, 06:51:18 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 02, 2021, 06:08:52 pmJust because popular X7R and Z5U ceramic dielectrics have high loss and are non-linear, does not mean that C0G/NP0 ceramic capacitors are bad for audio. When audio designers started paying close attention to capacitors, there seemed to be some confusion about available dielectrics, and larger values were not yet readily available in C0G.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 09:57:02 am
content: Quote from: madires on June 02, 2021, 01:56:38 pmProbably the reason why serious audio equipment manufacturers mostly use these standard caps instead of audiophoolery caps

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2021, 08:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: Raj on June 02, 2021, 04:16:21 amWarning: The state of California has determined thateverythingcases cancer.

author: agtrbt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2021, 03:52:07 am
content: Douglas Self mentiponed capacitr distortion in a few audio electronics books, they can be significant with material other than polypropylene, polystyrene, C0G NP0 dielectric and falling close to the reacting frequency.Also beware of mislabeled / counterfeits from Winnie-the-Pooh.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2021, 01:50:42 pm
content: Specifically, at frequencies where the AC voltage across the capacitor is significant compared with the total voltage in the circuit, e.g. near the corner frequency for an RC low-pass or high-pass filter.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2021, 02:27:57 pm
content: I see they come in different colors.But they forgot the blue ones. Which would provide the exact tonal quality if someone is playing R&B, Bluegrass or soul music.“Feeling the bluessss, baby, feeling the blues, yeah!”

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2021, 02:57:46 pm
content: Buy a can of "Audiophoolery Blue"!

author: HerbTarlek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2021, 02:24:16 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 02, 2021, 11:05:55 amProblem is, the branch of the military to whose specs these are made is theGreat Navy of the State of Nebraska.