The Legality of Buying Hakko-Clones - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mmtt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:18:03 pm
content: Hi all.I would love to buy real Hakko stuff, but in the country where I am located, the market is flooded by Hakko clones, e.g. ones (or maybe all) ones containing 936 in their name, etc. Please note that stuff like Wellers and Hakkoscanbe found. But I have so far only encountered Hakko 888 with a 200% markup, and extremely expensive Weller stuff. I am currently on the watch for Hakko FX-600, Goot and Xytronics regulated irons with a budget less than $60.I currently own an unregulated iron which is causing me a lot of pain, although, I am willing to wait. But I wanted to know about the legal status of buying knockoffs (Of course, they have lower quality and reliability, but I am not a very heavy user).Hakko has a page about their IP protection:http://www.hakko.com/english/company/intellectual_property/They have sued Aoyue and won before:http://www.hakko.com/english/company/intellectual_property/news.html#news01and they have a big image showing knockoff images, stating they are illegal to purchase:http://www.hakko.com/english/images/company/intellectual_property/copy_poster_big.gifHakko knockoffs have slowly transitioned out of being 100% lookalikes but similarities exist. I know companies can get copyrights on looks of hardware, but not their part numbers (e.g. the whole 384, 486 naming and transition to Pentium by Intel story). And there are the story with patents (Hakko sued Aoyue for patents). Do the slightly different lookalikes that have compatible leads also infringe on Hakko IP? I prefer not to violate their IP with my purchase, even if I am not going to get caught.If it is indeed illegal as they state, why haven't Hakko blocked sales of knockoffs in US*? Soldering stations that are very similar to Hakko's old gear (specifically Hakko 936 and Hakko 937) are few clicks away on Amazon.Does anyone have an idea?*I don't live in US.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:02:53 pm
content: Where are you located? There's an option in your profile to set your country which puts a little flag under your name, that makes it much easier for others to provide geographically specific advice for things like this.Of course the laws vary by country, but as far as I know, while it's illegal tosellcounterfeit items, it's not (or at least is very rarely) illegal tobuythem. Copyright violation in the US, for instance, hinges on making copies available, not simply acquiring or possessing copies. That's why you see the movie and music industry going after people who aresharingmedia on peer-to-peer networks as opposed to the larger number of people who are simply downloading that media.Where it gets tricky is when things get seized in customs, as that case with Sparkfun and their Fluke-alike multimeters recently. Presumably if you buy a counterfeit item and it gets seized your only recourse would be against the supplier, which likely means you're SOL.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: mmtt on January 13, 2015, 09:18:03 pmIt would be much more helpful to know where you live, not where you do not live. Many brands are almost non existent in US, however available in Europe and vice versa. For example Hakko sucks in EU because of their insane prices here but rocks in US.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:21:27 pm
content: How about using a clone with real hakko tips? Does this gives a reasonable system at low cost?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:39:34 pm
content: Quote from: mmtt on January 13, 2015, 09:18:03 pmConsidering Aoyue is still around and making 936-clone irons, I don't think they really did. Hakko has since discontinued the 936, so you're not going to get a "genuine 936" new anymore.Anyway I think the only worry comes from the stations that are branded "Hakko" but not made by them, otherwise as you say model numbers are not trademarkable so an Aoyue or Quick or Yihua orQuakko936 is a different product. A lot of them use a slightly different connector for the handle and a thermocouple instead of thermistor sensor.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 12:28:26 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on January 14, 2015, 03:14:12 pmBut, if they just happen to stumble onto this website and this thread, then they will KNOW he 'knowingly knew' about purchasing a fake or stolen good. They could then prosecute. You screwed yourself by posting here! Big Brother is always watching. Now they will come after you and slap you with a $1 fine!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 01:02:35 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on January 15, 2015, 12:28:26 amYou forgot that he is not from US. Therefore can relax unless going to go to the US as they store all compromising material until the right moment comes.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 01:36:06 am
content: True!You better not ever come to the US. They will arrest you when you get off the plane, and stick you in a small cell with a big guy named 'Bubba'!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 06:52:56 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 15, 2015, 01:02:35 amIf he is that worried, he must be in Italy. In the US he will have to worry if he was selling the stuff, not the other way around as far as I know.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 07:02:45 am
content: in the US they could enforce it as well.. it is illegal to 'knowingly' buy stolen or faked (copy right infringement) goods. Will they enforce it? probably not. If you were found to have a thousand of these, probably, as they would charge you with an intent to sell them as well.