Witch Multimeter for electronic hobbyist? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:46:56 am
content: Hello boys and girlsI wan't to buy a good hobbyist multimeter for electronic use with high resolution and for measuring uA and mA etc. i have looket at Aneng, Uni-t and other brands and i just do not know what to choose.I do not want to spend all my money on Fluke.I'm also open for trying bench top multimeters, but they are expensive....?Nice display with backlight is also wanted...

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:55:52 am
content: I don't know of any multimeters which are haunted.For my personal use, with similar needs as yours, I searched threads here and came up with the Aneng AN870 and the EEVBlog BM786. I purchased both of them and I'm happy with them for what they are and the prices. They both seem popular with other members here, so I'd suggest having a look at the specs of those two for starters, and see what you think, and determine what your price range is.I purchased the Aneng via AliExpress, and the BM786 via Amazon.

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 04:13:22 am
content: Thanks for quick feedbackIs the EEVblog 121GW multimeter any good? I have seen the test done of Joe Smith and i have read a lot of complaints regards to 121GW. Is BM786 better than 121GW?

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 04:41:18 am
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 04:13:22 amI didn't do a thorough comparison between the EEVBlog 121GW and the BM786, but the BM786 was cheaper, easier to purchase (Amazon), and in just looking quickly at the specs seemed to be a better meter for my usage. Maybe someone else who knows more can comment about the differences, issues, etc.

author: AaronLee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 04:53:59 am
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 03:46:56 amAnd to address that point, I've seen it often said that you can't have too many multimeters. There's times when you need two or more at once for measuring multiple things. That's why I chose those two portable multimeters I did. But for even higher accuracy I needed something more, and wanted a bench top multimeter. That was a tough decision for me. I've been happy with the Siglent range of test equipment for the value and features/quality they provide, so took a long hard look at their meters. But in the end, I decided that the cost savings wasn't nearly as much, compared to the cost savings of Siglent oscilloscopes and function generators over the big name brands. So for a bench top multimeter, I personally went with the Keithley DMM6500. Based on your comment about Flukes, I'd guess the Keithley is way over your budget. It is a very nice bench top multimeter though, and I have a few occasions where I need that additional accuracy it gives, and have a bit more confidence in it's readings than I think I would if it was a Siglent bench top. It was though a close call between the two in regards to my decision making.I prefer a bench top multimeter in general for what I consider to be overall easier to read displays, and without the need to ever worry about the battery going dead. Plus better connectivity options in general for bench top multimeters. I use all three, but prefer (enjoy) to use the Keithley most of the time.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 12:20:02 pm
content: I have a bunch of DMMs and a couple of VOMs but the one I reach for is the Aneng AN8008. It works well, it has a uA scale and it's cheap. Yes, one of my other meters is a Fluke 189 which cost nearly $400 at the time (20 years ago). I still reach for the Aneng...You will need more than one DMM so at least one of them might as well be the AN 8008. Both of my EEVblog meters work well but they're a little more bulky than the AN8008.I wouldn't trust the CAT rating on very many meters that weren't Fluke but I don't tend to use my DMMs to look at mains voltages. Make your own choice here but I use my meters on my electronics bench at 12V or less. The CAT rating is meaningless.https://www.tequipment.net/cat-ratings-explained/

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 12:37:44 pm
content: "Witch Multimeter"?You'll want one with ahexdisplay then.I'm here all week folks...

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 12:44:41 pm
content: OK, after that you deserve a serious reply.Of all my multifarious meters (all the way up to a 6 1/2 digit Keysight 34461A) the two that I reach for most are my (first generation) Fluke 25 and its recently acquired cousin the Fluke 27. Simple, only 3.5 digits but accurate, reliable, indestructible, and available secondhand for very little money.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 01:37:25 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 03:46:56 amIt really depends on you. Your posting in the beginner area, so I assume you are a beginner. Here is a very old lab with a analog meter built in. I would say its useful for the experiments they are having you run.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/show-your-multimeter!/msg3625497/#msg3625497I started out with a old analog VTVM. For my 13th birthday, I got another analog meter that I used for many years. Still today, most of the time when looking at current, I am not using the DMMs built-in shunt. Instead I opt for external shunts, transformers, other...If you are just starting out, I recommend learning the basics. As far as the Dave's 121GW vs Brymen BM786, if there is something specific you want to see, let me know.Here are a few videos on measuring current.Using an external resistor with the Fluke 101Simple powered shuntFor higher currents:Current transformer:My first DMM:

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:02:10 pm
content: QuoteJoe Smith tested 121GW and the result was not wery good. I just think it's a little strange that Dave talks rubbish about all other meters but not his own, when other (Joe Smith) just think it's crap.I think 121GW is i nice meter to look at, but if it fall apart after one year i do not want it...

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:49:53 pm
content: let's say: every meter for its purpose...Dave is right about his critique on Uni-T and others about missing protection, MOVs a.s.o. and the often flimsy construction; but that doesn't mean that those meters are not usable and worth the buck they costif you keep away from mains and power electronics, there's no harm using those meters in the lab and they can do you a good service for a long time

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 04:13:33 pm
content: You can watch and read a lot of reviews, but often half of those reviews is about the instrument, and half of the review is about the reviewer.You also have not said much about what sort of meter you want, but I'm guessing you're in sort of the same ballpark as me.I've bought some of the el-cheapo's and find them ... inadequate. I've bought two Aneng AN8009 meters, and a few weeks after buying them one of showed a 1% 1k resistor as 960 Ohms, unless you fiddle with the rotary switch or wiring, then it sometimes shows the correct value.There is also no chance in hell that I will ever buy a fluke. Sure it's quality, and they're reliable, but only people who have an excessive amount of money or fanboys buy those.I thought about buying an 121GW, but decided not to. It has a whole bunch of unusual ranges, which I really do like, but the quality of the meter is not on par with it's price, but that also depends a bit in how you calculate in those extra ranges, which also need extra hardware. Final decision of not buying it was the closed firmware. If the software for this thing was fully open I likely would have bought it.I really like the Brymen meters. Quality is quite good (although maybe a tad less then the flukes) but they're half the price or less.Brymen meters start around EUR70, and you can get "lots of digits" for EUR150 with the BM867s. (But not all digits are meaningful in all ranges).Just had a look at a store in the EU, (welectron) and they also sell the 121GW for EUR250.I don't give much about CAT ratings. I mostly use a DMM for low voltage use and the fuses are horribly expensive. (and as a beginner you will blow them. (Having a DMM that beeps at you when the probe is in the current socket while the dial is in a voltage measurement really helps here). On top of that, everything after the main fuses in your house is CAT 2 anyway, and it's not such a big deal if half the meter explodes and lets out smoke if you do something really stupid. Just as long as the casing itself stay's mostly closed and there are no metal parts sticking out it will scare you but it's still reasonably safe (for you personally, the meter won't work anymore after that).I am also interested in benchtop meters, but the meter I want does not exist unfortunately.The "professional" meters start at around EUR500, and they all have a 30cm or so deep cabinet, and I have no room for that.I was intrigued by the (relatively) new Owon xdm1041. The price is right, it has a nice front panel. Nicely readable TFT screen, but in the end it's just a handheld meter in a fancier box. It does not have decent data logging capabilities and it has unacceptably slow auto ranging for a benchtop meter. It is an extremely hackable meter though. The DMM with galvanic isolation is on a separate PCB from the microcontroller, and you can simply wire in you favorite microcontroller and start experimenting. Digilent has an "arduino shield" with the same DMM chip, and also some relatively cheap Chinese models have the same HY3131, but the chip is hard to buy separately, so building your own based on that chip is difficult.There is a vichi brand tabletop meter that is apparently half decent, but I don't like monochrome LCD's (although it has backlight (Continuously on?))If you're interested in tabletop meters, and don't want to spend too much, then I recommend to build your own. You can get quite decent ADC with built in voltage reference (such as ADS1118) for a few euro's, and with a bit of tinkering with analog switches for auto ranging and a bit of protection it's easily turned into a decent volt meter, and with small additions you can create other ranges. With 860 samples/s it's also plenty fast for very quick auto ranging.You can also build a few different meters. Having more then one DMM is almost a must for electronics work. For example to measure current and voltage simultaneously, or monitoring voltages at different points in a circuit simultaneously.Scullcom has published quite a lot of projects for measurement equipment, and open sourced it, so you can use those projects as a start and make your own variant.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 04:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 03:46:56 amOne of the reasons I don't have a Brymen meter is the look is not working for me - I also find Dave's blue option an unappealing colour - given that I do have a PeakTech meter whose original brand name I haven't researched.If you want to check their specs:https://www.amazon.co.uk/stores/PeakTech/page/B53F40FF-4E0D-44C8-BCFB-412208B54A75?ref_=ast_bln

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 05:08:52 pm
content: Wow!Peaktech looks like a wery exiting multimeter for a reasonable price

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 07:48:54 pm
content: Thanks for good answerWhat do you think about PeakTech multimeters? Just another random brand, or is it good shit?

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 08:57:27 pm
content: I have some Uni-T multimeters, I'm satisfied

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:11:56 pm
content: I bought an Uni-t 61E in an norwegian store for 7 mounth ago. I turned it on in the car and it did't work. Continuity test did not work, and the backlight flickered.I turned it back and get my money back. It just felt cheap and not worth the money. (120 dollar). It's alot cheaper from China, but still, i think i not want that one.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:25:04 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 07:48:54 pmSorry but I have not looked at any products from them. They offer a very wide variety of products. The handheld meters I am looking at have the TUV and GS marks. I think if I were to run one, it would be the PeakTech 3442.Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 09:11:56 pmInteresting as my 61E came without a backlight. Assuming yours was a 61E, there are certainly different flavors of the same model number. There's a whole thread dedicated to that meter here.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on September 05, 2021, 12:37:44 pmA similar thought popped into my head when I saw the thread. The joke might not make sense to someone who is not a native English speaker so I'll provide a hint, the word that was obviously intended is "which", the sound is identical but the meaning is very different. Isn't English fun?On that note, one of my coworkers recently joked that "If the engineer who designed English worked for me, I would fire him on the spot."

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 09:49:59 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 09:11:56 pmI suspect the battery was low, many meters (and other devices) will behave strangely with low batteries. If it felt cheap for the money then returning it is reasonable though.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 10:40:25 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 09:11:56 pmI know people who bought a Fluke only to find out they had some problems ..; this is to say that you have probably been out of luck. I have the UT71 and it works great (and the ut210 clamp meter, too, is worth more than the money I paid for it)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 12:13:21 am
content: I read your posts but I am still unsure where you are going to use the meter. If it is on the bench and low voltage circuits, some of the options above are reasonable: Aneng AN870 (Richmeters RM219) has a great price/performance. Richmeters RM113D is also a very entry level that is well built mechanically at a very reasonable price. You already have a bad experience with the UT61E, but it has a great set of features for the price. Another one that is quite well built is the Uni-T UT139C. All these multimeters are electrically fragile, therefore are useful for the purpose of low level electronics and the occasional outlet measurement.The Brymen BM235 is an excellent entry-level meter with good protection. The BM257 gives you a bit more features and robustness at a bit higher price. The BM786 starts to put you into the "serious" range of meters. Joe also tested the Fluke 101 and found out it is electrically indestructible - my experience with it, however, revealed a lacklustre build quality with two units I had. Also, it is a very basic unit w.r.t. features.Good luck in your quest!

author: xavier60
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 08:57:33 am
content: This ‎Thsinde model runs on a 9V battery and is less likely to be destroyed by electrolyte leakage than DMMs that are powered by AAA cells.The only annoyance so far is the auto power down warning beeps, like the Anengs do.https://www.amazon.com/Autoranging-Multimeter-Temperature-Capacitance-Transistors/dp/B075WRQYX5/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Thsinde&qid=1630917988&sr=8-3

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 10:59:22 am
content: Thanks for all answersI decided to try different types of multimeters, so i ordered five multimeters from AliExpress.I ordered:- TOOLTOP ET8134- Aneng AN870- Aneng AN8009- Aneng Q10- Bside S20 EMF Black

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:26:19 am
content: for the series "in the bunch maybe I'll find a decent multimeter"

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:29:01 am
content: five multmeters for around 130 dollar is good deal i think. Just for trying out something new

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:42:53 am
content: It might be interesting to uncover your justification [ed. I see now it was economical] for the particular chosen models. I tend to justify new meters if they have a special feature I currently don't have but would like.I initially got two of the same model meter that has some good (if expensive) features: diode voltage, external psu, and data loggingafter that I got specific meters with particular featuresmilli-ohm,insulation testing,IP rating - rugged,trend capture,mean and rms switchabledual temperature / Harmonic Ratio / Zlow

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:47:28 am
content: No justification. I just wan't to try something new. For that price i just don't care. i'm sure i find something to do with them

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 11:58:40 am
content: delivery scheduled for christmas?

author: edfarrington93
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 12:07:22 pm
content: I was going to say something smart about which version of witch is grammatically correct

author: edfarrington93
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 12:12:52 pm
content: Jeez, I was checking these out on Amazon and they even sell them in packs of 2,3, and 4!

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2021, 12:13:32 pm
content: the only loose end now, surely, is why the American witch looks like a boy scout!

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 05:48:36 pm
content: I do understand buying a few cheap meters out of curiosity.I do not understand buying 5 meters and **only** buy the cheapest low-end stuff.The Brymen meters start at around EUR60, and with one of those you have a pretty reliable meter that will last for many years and is also safe enough to use on mains voltages.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2021, 07:28:36 pm
content: More than one is best . Look for multi-meters that have a high input impedance 1M to 10M . Low impedance DMM can influence what your measuring . Not that Low impedance DMMs don't have their place in some applications. Low impedance is better when testing batteries for example . Although Fluke is generally out of my price range they do offer changeable input impedance on some models I believe .One should have at least one analog multi-meter . DMMs can give weird measurements as they which from one range to the next . An example is when testing a potentiometers resistance range .

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 01:37:58 am
content: Having been a beginner with nothing in the way of cash I understand your desire to keep costs down. However you still want a reasonably good meter as your first. If you have the cash support this forum by buying one of Eevblog offerings. Seriously why not, as a beginner almost any decent meter will work.If the offerings on eevblog are too rich for the budget get on DigiKey and search for meters around $50. They have more than a few between $25 and $75. Go with a recognized brand name that meets your requirements. If you are not sure about your selection post back here.Frankly if you are a beginner this is a good way to learn about parametric search on the various vendor web sites.As for Fluke, for professional use I wouldn’t use anything else. I’m not sure why there is so much negativity here. I suppose the same people would complain about a carpenter using a $40 dollar hammer instead of a $2, discount store special. You don’t need a Fluke but you shouldn’t dismiss getting one in the future, if you need a tool instead of a toy.As for desktop meters unless you can find a deal on a used one, most are too expensive for a beginner. That is pretty sad really because they are easier to use on a bench.One last thing; Alkaline batteries suck and can easily destroy what ever in a weekend. I strongly suggest meters that don’t use such batteries or can work on rechargeables. After 40+ years in the technical world I’m finally wising up in this regard. I buy Panasonic rechargeable AA & AAA batteries for almost everything except for cold weather gear.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 02:06:33 am
content: My understanding when I had to procure DMM was the min. requirement to get 3 of them. Although I swear by the one with the cute orange sleeve being the most accurate (given its mfg's marketing budget!), the two others are equally important and used for cross-validation...

author: ElectricPower
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 02:33:45 am
content: I never use multimeters for mains. I only use it in the 1-12V range. Maybe 24V some times. But yes, i'm going to order the Brymen 869S.The only Fluke that looks good, and have big screen cost around 800 dollar. I'm talking about Fluke 287. Insane price to pay for an hobbyist. For that price i can get an very good laptop, AND a good enough multimeter.

author: Mecanix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 02:50:01 am
content: Love my RIGOL DM3058E... for the price you intent doshing into that orange sleeve you might as well just get a calibrated benchtop one with SPCI and data logging facilitation, etc...And get two other handhelds ones, with non-orange sleeves ofc ;-)edit: did I forgot to mention 4-wires/kelvin testing? haha, picky...

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 09:50:50 am
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 05, 2021, 03:46:56 amindeed, avoid witch onesdon't cheap yourself, but some fluke, you won't regretif not, uni-t are fine but all that uni-t like ecosystem relies on being very attentive on measurement process, one mistake, you're friedwith some patience, brand multimeters that resist wrong setups are cheap enough, buy multimeter once in your lifetime, next step is second multimeter or scope or another testing gear you need.buying cheap stuff serve no purpose

author: MarkKn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 12:56:45 pm
content: I got a fluke 87v some years ago used from ebay and no regrets--used or grey market, I can't recall, but a big discount off list price. Accuracy reliability and auto-ranging were the most important reasons.I recently bought a siglent bench meter to complement it. I like the accuracy of the siglent and maybe more important the bright self lit display. I wanted a bench meter, and I don't have a rational reason for that, so I indulged myself. I had a somewhat old fluke bench meter that I bought inexpensively on ebay, but I had indications that it was very inaccurate so I got rid of it. Today I would have made more of an effort to see if it could be fixed, but I do tend to prefer measuring equipment I can rely one as a bedrock for electronics work.I also have an inexpensive fluke clamp-on to measure ac mains current. The visual display is quite small, so I only use it when clamp on ac current is needed. My eyesight is diminishing with age so a big visual display is something I am glad to pay extra for.It looks like there are some well specified multimeters for a fraction of the cost of what I have, and others here can speak more accurately about them. I see no reason why one of those would not do the job quite well for a person who doesn't want to spend a lot of money for an up market brand.As a child in the 1960-70s, I had inexpensive 20,000 ohms per volt meters, and I really liked the move to auto-ranging technology and greater accuracy.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2021, 08:38:38 pm
content: A bit late to the party, but: As with Fluke, you whether are a customer of them or you are not. At work I use a Fluke 179 for all the stuff I do that would involve a multimeter- and there might be the occassional poking in a mains cabinet or doing some measurements in a live device under test when doing safety testing for appliances.So yes, I want the multimeter to be of proven quality, robust and not to forget, being able to get regular calibrations with a short turnaround time from a standard cal lab.For hobby use that will not exceed 24V, nearly every multimeter is able to work. Depending on the usage (and how often it will be used) it can pay off to use a good quality multimeter that does not fall apart a year later...Brymen are some sort of special tip here in west europe for being affordable and good quality.For me, my portable multimeter at home for electronics stuff (and being able to poke around with mains, if necessary) is a Agilent U1272- got on ebay for a lucky price.And two old fluke bench multimeters for longer work sessions, mainly also because of their illuminated display...

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2021, 04:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: ElectricPower on September 28, 2021, 02:33:45 amIn some cases you can implement industrial panel meters to monitor fixed voltage ranges. You will need to look around but they can sometimes make sense if you don't mind a little bit of work to mount them. The idea is that a custom installation can avoid a the trouble of hooking up a meter constantly.As for the Brymen do make a point to get rid of the alkaline batteries. Try rechargeable if the unit will operate with them or Lithium primary cells. I can't over state how disgusting it is to open up a battery compartment and see the result of a massive alkaline battery leak.Sadly the common practice of pulling the batteries when not in use, is a pain on a lot of multimeters so I'm not sure that is a good alternative with this model.QuoteWell if you look at a top end Fluke and compare it to a entry level DMM it will look to be expensive. To get into the hobby I wouldn't recommend a new Fluke, as there are plenty of low cost entry level meters out there. Get started with a low end meter, just realize that a lot of the check box features that the meter makers market are not used all that often if at all. The basic features are what you will be using for a good long time.As others have already said in the long run you will need more than one meter. When you get to the point where you really need additional meters you will likely be able to justify a higher price. You will also have a better idea as to what features are important to you.By the way many of us started out with analog meters. Shocking yes to the young ones out there, but if you find an operable used one, at at reasonable price, pick it up. Often people get obsessed to resolution of a reading out to the nano volt but that is rarely needed and never by somebody just getting into electronics.