HP 85685A RF Preselector Need CLIPS and Software - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2018, 11:24:09 pm
content: I just acquired a HP 85685A RF Preselector for my HP 8566B spectrum analyzer. I have located 2 documents on line but I'm looking for additional information.It appears that a portion of the system verification and almost all adjustments must be done via GPIB. The PDF copy of the operations/test/adjustments manual refers to BASIC program that is on a software disk in the front of the manual to run most of the procedures. Unfortunately since my only manuals are PDF's I don't have the software disk.I found 2 PDF Manuals:1. 85685-90003 85685A Preselector Operations, Tests, and Adjustments Manual (missing software disk)2. 85685-90098 85685A RF Preselector Operating and Programming Manual (Does not have any GPIB commands for maintenance)What am looking for:1. The software disk or BASIC program that goes with the 85685-90003 manual.2. The schematics and/or service manual for the unit.3. A more comprehensive list of GPIB commands that cover accessing internal functions or registers.What I have done to date:- Checked HP/KS site but the is little there.- Checkedhttp://artekmanuals.com/.They didn't have anything; left a message but haven't heard back.Any help is always appreciated.rastro

author: hwalker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2018, 03:10:10 am
content: rasto,The basic program was contained on a LIF floppy disk written in HPBasic and was intended to be used in a HP instrument controller system (i.e. HP9825). The floppy can not be read by any modern computer system and so would not do you much good if you could obtain one. The floppy was also protected such that a hard copy of the program could not be printed out.- Herb

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2018, 04:16:19 pm
content: Quote from: hwalker on September 18, 2018, 03:10:10 amHello Herb,Thanks for the insight.I suspected that the floppy containing the BASIC program might be in LIF format.However I don't completely agree with you that I a pointless effort; I would still like to get a copy or image.My basic approach:Try the LIF to DOS format conversion to see if can glean any information.Investigate an HP9825 emulator which may solve the problem altogether.Find an old controller so I can eves drop on the GPIB communications to derive commands to the preselector.LIF to DOS Please refer to:https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&nid=-11143.0.00&id=1000000786:epsg:sudHP9825 emulator:http://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/emulator/Ultimately I need to get is a print out of the BASIC program service routine so I can understand how to access and control the internals of the unit via GPIB.I suspect that I'm not the only person looking to extract software/GPIB service routines for checkout and maintenance on other vintage HP equipment.rastro

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 18, 2018, 05:11:20 pm
content: Have you posted to the HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment group on groups.io? If not I'd recommend asking there , hopefully someone has an image of the floppy stored.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2018, 07:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on September 18, 2018, 05:11:20 pmI'm a member under the yahoo groups. You just motivated me to finally logon to the new system to post. Done.I wish the new site had filter for only unread threads.

author: hwalker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2018, 12:52:20 am
content: rasto,I'll check around the lab for an old copy of the performance diskette. I have used the LIF to DOS conversion utilities (HTBasic) but they only worked for converting data and not programs. I believe the programs were in binary format. To use the performance diskettes we pull a HP9845 or HP9825 out of storage and hook it up to a HP9121 or HP9122 diskette reader. After running the performance routines the system would go back into storage until needed again. I had no problem getting a listing of the HPBasic programs that we created in the lab, but the commercial HP programs such as the performance tests and the EMC tests would not allow listing. HP was probably the first company to do copy protection of their software.Have you hooked the pre-selector up to a HP8568 or HP8566 and run the pre-selector peaking routine? This is a good way to run a confidence test to ensure the combination is operating O.K. and does not require any external software to run.BTW,I noticed that Agilent still has programming documentation for the pre-selector with example HPBasic programs at the following address:https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000002109%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-85685A/rf-preselector?pm=PL&nid=-32400.536881724&cc=US&lc=eng- Herb

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2018, 04:29:25 pm
content: Hello Herb,Thanks for checking on the diskettes. If you find them and could post an image I hope to be able to use dos to LIF conversion to write a disk on a normal floppy disk drive. My HP8510C I believe can duplicate both dos/LIF but I doubt I can use this as remote GPIB floppy???I do have an HP9122 which was not system checked. I have gone through the process with cleaning the sony drives of dried grease that creates mechanical eject issues. I don't have a controller (ex:HP9845/25) I guess that have to go on my shopping list. I did send a message to the HP9845 emulator site to see if the HPIB emulation option will pass through to a USB/GPIB adapter - although I think it's doubtful.Yes, I did find the 2 documents at keysight and ran two of the performance verification procedure which did not require the service disk. Both table 1 & 2 Low/High frequency noise levels passed. I also ran some of the test mode (GPIB Switches) to verify DAC's and memory.Additional Functional Checks:1. I also performed the self calibration (comb generator) routine from 10MHz to 2.0GHz and it completed/passed.2. I used the sweep the start/stop frequencies from table 1 & 2 to measure signal amplitude between filter and bypass - both pretty flat and within a couple of dB. So it seems that the 25??? RF paths are correctly configured with calibration data. I was working under the assumption that the start/stop frequencies was targeting each specific filters or RF-path.Overall it seems to be working. With out the service routine, I can't really verify that the comb generator calibration constants are correct, but have no believe they are a problem.I did back up the EEPROMS (calibration constants) and firmware. It's interesting that one of the EEPROMS shows all "FF" while the other appears to have various values. My guess is that the 68K processor being a 16-bit word and the DAC's are probably 8-bit the high byte EEPROM data isn't really utilized.rastro

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2018, 08:43:32 pm
content: Quote from: rastro on September 19, 2018, 04:29:25 pmYou might submit those files to ko4bb.com for posting in their firmware directory. I don't think I've seen them online anywhere.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 12:38:13 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on September 22, 2018, 08:43:32 pmYes I agree. I posted the firmware yesterday. I did not submit the EEPROMS since they are machine specific with system S/N but my Zip file text note has the the cross-referenced part number for the EEPROM's.I'll probably submit the few HP docs I have because I didn't see these backed up either on ko4bb.com. I haven't done this yet because I found some errors in some of the check out procedures and want to add an additional text file highlighting my concerns.BTY thanks for all you contributions to the community. I've benefited from you postings on CRT rejuvenation and Tektronix 492 SMPS rebuilding... Hopefully I can pay some of it forward.rastro

author: matthuszagh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2022, 01:10:17 pm
content: Quote from: rastro on September 17, 2018, 11:24:09 pmHi rastro,I was able to track down a copy of the CLIP. I think I was fortunate in finding this, as there don't appear to be many in existence. Anyway, I scanned it and uploaded a copy here:https://groups.io/g/HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment/files/CLIP%20folder%20for%20Component%20Level%20Information%20Packets%20%28CLIPs%29/HP%20CLIP/hp_85685a_clip.pdfI plan to mirror this on the internet archive, ko4bb, etc. soon.I also purchased a copy of the Installation, Verification and Service Manual (HP 85685-90097), which came with the complete verification software. I plan to scan/copy these shortly and upload them. I believe you were interested in the software. If you're still interested in these let me know and I can post back with a link when I've done so.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 10:32:16 pm
content: Thanks for touching base with me. I went to the sight and downloaded the CLIPs. I appreciate you scanning & posting those documents. It sounds like other people where looking for them as well.Yes I'm still looking for a copy of the software disk. I'm glad you located one. Have you been able to run it? It may be in the old HP format but you may be able to do save it to a file using a "DD" Unit/Linux copy command. It may also might use HP basic to implement the test/alignment drivers? If that is the case a pint out of the basic program might be useful.RegardsRastro

author: matthuszagh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2023, 05:21:30 am
content: Hi Rastro,Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I'm just now trying to read these. Unfortunately no luck so far. The data is on MEMOREX 2S/2D Microdisk double sided 135 TPI floppies. I tried loading them into my Sony MSFD-20U USB floppy reader, but I just see errors (in Linux) such as the following:[3679302.661485] sd 12:0:0:0:  Unit Not Ready[3679302.661489] sd 12:0:0:0:  Sense Key : Medium Error [3679302.661490] sd 12:0:0:0:  Add. Sense: Cannot read medium - unknown format[3679302.709487] sd 12:0:0:0:  Read Capacity(10) failed: Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE[3679302.709490] sd 12:0:0:0:  Sense Key : Medium Error [3679302.709491] sd 12:0:0:0:  Add. Sense: Cannot read medium - unknown format[3679302.725501] sd 12:0:0:0:  Write Protect is on[3679302.725502] sd 12:0:0:0:  Mode Sense: 00 46 00 80No luck with dd either, but not so surprising given the error:dd if=/dev/sdf of=hp_85685a_disk_1.disk status=progressI don't know anything about floppies. If you have any ideas let me know. I have an old HP 382 computer, but unfortunately the floppy drive on it has never worked. But, if I am able to get the programs off the disk I should be able to use that to get the source code, I think.I've also posted here:https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/topic/how_to_read_a_memorex_2s_2d/96348357.

author: matthuszagh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 02:06:42 am
content: I just uploaded all the software (https://archive.org/details/hp85685a_software). This contains the disk images, program binaries, and the source files, which I retrieved by LOADing and SAVEing on an HP 382 controller.FYI I may, at some point, look into modifying this software to work with other instruments as I don't have all the units required for the calibration. I'll post an update if I get a chance to work on that and make any progress.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 02:45:26 am
content: Yep, it seems to call out a massive number of different instruments, up to and including an 8753A VNA.Even if it proves impractical to execute the programs directly, though, knowledge of what GPIB commands are issued by the HP test software will likely come in handy. Not all of that info appears to be documented in the manual.

author: rastro
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 12:56:37 am
content: matthuszagh,I really appreciate you posting the disk files. It looks like you put in quite a bit of work to get different duplicate file types of the disks along with extracting the BASIC programs. I agree with KE5FX that having the programs using the GPIB commands if a big help.Thanks Again,rastro