What FPGA dev board? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 11:21:18 am
content: Suppose my goal is to put as much of the equivalent logic circuitry as practical of a VIC20 or BBC model B computer onto an FPGA, what would be a good, modestly priced and adequately capable dev. board / device family to buy to get started? I have prior experience with Altera CPLD programming using Quartus extensively, but am not devoted to Altera if there are better alternatives. Not interested to spend big bucks on development software subscriptions. And I guess I'm stuck with BGA now too? That's a bit poo for prototyping beyond the dev. board.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 am
content: Something like this:I would choose a FPGA board which can deliver at least an onboard RGB or HDMI video output to make your life soooo much easier, though you are now out of the 25$ fpga board range. If you are familiar with Quartus, stick with Altera, otherwise you will be in for a learning curve.This board might have the juice for a Vic-20, you will need to check the existing online Quartus VIC-20 or even Commodore C-64 projects to verify gate count & ram requirements.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Altera-Cyclone-IV-FPGA-EP4CE6E22C8N-V2-Development-Board-USB-BlasterProgrammer-/152251880703?hash=item2372eb54ff:g:8HMAAOSwYIxX5KVZOr with ADC & DAC + display and com ports:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yes-Development-Board-Learning-Test-ALTERA-CYCLONE-IV-FPGA-Accessories-Kit-Y2R3-/152403159377?hash=item237befa951:g:SDEAAOSw5cNYYlDJMore similar:http://www.ebay.com/itm/EP4CE6E22C8N-FPGA-Board-with-Programmer-Altera-Cyclone-IV-NIOS-II-/111975895262?hash=item1a124890de:g:sRoAAOSwPcVVpGmgThis one will give you access to many IOshttp://www.ebay.com/itm/EP4CE6E22C8N-FPGA-Board-with-Programmer-Altera-Cyclone-IV-NIOS-II-/152474117827?hash=item23802a66c3:g:DzEAAOSwB-1YykKlNow, if you want to get 'SERIOUS' and have HDMI, Audio and want the horsepower to emulate an few Amiga 500s, or, Amiga 4000 with 24bit color video out + a bunch of IOs access, or, run something like 6 VIC-20s all at once on one display, you can get this guy: At 175$, the extra 125$ is worth all the extra goodies and it's not a clone like the ebay 50$ units above.https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=830This one is as cheap as it gets with VGA & PS2 keyboard though without an ADC, you cannot connect an audio cassette to an analog input to load tape programs:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-For-EP4CE6-Altera-FPGA-Development-Learning-Board-NIOS-Kit-USB-Blaster/401198451919?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D987524bc5c4a4c009eecacbb85864e39%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D201691662826

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:35:06 pm
content: Warning: Don't install the Chinese disk, get Quartus right from Altera and only use the projects on the Chinese disks for those cheap ebay boards. Especially the 35$ one.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 amI bought this board, as mentioned by BrianHG, don't use the DVDs with which it is delivered, they contain only cracked and probably virus infected versions of Modelsim and Quartus. But after some search I found the documentation, see this thread for my journey :-)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/mysterious-fpga-board-with-vga-output/But I didn't tested the samples so far, but a simple LED blinking example I wrote before worked, so I guess the hardware is ok. Should be sufficient to implement a VIC20. For the 6502 there are already lots of FPGA-projects out there on OpenCores etc. The Cyclone IV comes in TQFP as well, easy to solder.If you are willing to pay a bit more, I can recommend the DE0 Nano. Very professional board and good documentation. You can add VGA with an R2R network.

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:07:49 pm
content: A bit better than the DE0-Nano is the DE10-Lite, it is based on the MAX10 comes with SDRAM too and has a bigger (50k LE, 180 kBytes Block RAM) part. It has built-in VGA port too.I have several FPGA boards and I'd recommend get yourself something good, except for the smallest boards for like 20-30 I'd avoid to pay 50 for some no-name cyclone iv boards from ebay.

author: JonM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:52:31 pm
content: I'm waiting for delivery of a ZYNQ based Snickerdoodle:https://www.crowdsupply.com/krtkl/snickerdoodleThey have already delivered a quantity, but I included the piSmasher board which is not quite ready.Note that the "black" version includes a Xilinx SDSoC license.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 02:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 amThat looks nice, but I think "Cyclone" devices with the suffix GX require one of the two paid-subscription versions of Quartus. It's nigh on midnight now and I've given up after a few minutes of trying to find again the relevant device-to-Quartus-version table on the abysmal Intel/Altera website.Those cheapo ebay boards might be OK, but the possibly inadequate supply rail routing and bypassing puts me off.Quote from: ale500 on May 08, 2017, 04:07:49 pmI think that's the overall best looking option so far.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: GK on May 10, 2017, 02:26:13 pmAll Cyclone V, including GX are supported in the latest free Quartus prime:https://www.altera.com/products/design-software/fpga-design/quartus-prime/download.htmlIt's the Cyclone 10GX which aren't supported in the free version.If you are not sure, you can download ant test compile the same chip used in the eval board, Cyclone V GX 5CGXFC5C6F27C7N, with nothing but a wire from 1 input to 1 output.If you still aren't sure, you can ask Altera. I don't think a cheap 175$ eval board would be so cheap for those paying 5k$ for 1 year subscription version of Quartus.

author: renewin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 10:41:01 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 amI have this FPGA, the board has some flaw that makes writing to the EPCS fail 99% of the time, i know someone else who has the same board with the same problem. It's not impossible to write to the EPCS, if you keep trying it will work at some point, but don't be surprised if you have to try more then 100 times.Quote from: BrianHG on May 08, 2017, 11:47:04 amI received this FPGA today, and it does not come with any documentation or schematic, I have tried to contact the sell, and have not gotten any reply yet. Without documentation that shows the pin configuration the RAM is going to be difficult to use, which makes eg. NIOS limited to the RAM you can build with logic elements.If you have the money look at the DE boards they start at around 100$,https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=204#Category205

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 05:52:56 pm
content: Original link for your boardhttps://world.taobao.com/item/523151181632.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.dExTo0#detailOn add is write documentation is on Baidu cloud

author: renewin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 07:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on May 11, 2017, 05:52:56 pmThe board is called Logic^3 and made by Daxigua,http://www.cnblogs.com/logic3/is the best information resource i have been able to find.Contacted the ebay seller and asked for technical documentation, they send 54 slides from an old Altera presentation, all other documentation have been able to find have been i Chinese.Can't recommend buying this board, and i would advice anyone planing to buy a cheap fpga dev board to make sure you can get schematic/documentation before you buy the board.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2017, 02:55:00 am
content: If you know what you are doing with FPGAs, so want to experience the pleasure of debugging a poorly documented board, then go lowest tier EBay.If you have no experience with FPGAs, and want to be able to follow a tutorial on the web, and have a reference manual for the board, then go top tier like Terasic or Digilent. You can then focus on HDL and learning the flow.How many hours did it take you to become proficient with coding for software? Learning HDL is approximately comparable. Your software experience won't count for much, as all the design patterns are different, and you have to learn/discover them.How many hours do you expect to be spending with the board? If the number is single or even double digits then you are under-estimating the amount of learning you will be doing. And if you are going to spend that long then you might as well enjoy it.Unless you have a specific end-goal in mind, go for a devboard that is physically small, portable, well documented, usb-powered, relatively modern, has interfaces you will use and has at least a few tutorials to get you started.If you were next door to me, for your stated use-case I would lend you a Digilent Basys3. The deciding factor being the analog VGA, USB keyboard support and quality of documentation. It has enough on-chip RAM and logic for an 8-bit system. But if you are going to spend that much you might as well get a Zybo for a few $ extra and get HDMI and ARM cores.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 12:11:54 pm
content: Why do people need anything more than pin assignment map, on an FPGA development board.The fpga vendor software like quartus / Diamond / ISE is the key for everything, and documentation for that software is available online.The unique information you need from an FPGA board is a pin assignment, and a schematic as a plus, everything else is totally unnecessary since FPGA is a general purpose logic circuit defined by a language and all the debug program process is standard for each FPGA vendor

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 02:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on May 15, 2017, 12:11:54 pmTo reduce the learning curve.You can eat any elephant a mouth full at a time, but it helps if you have a smaller elephant, and lots of seasonings to.make it taste better.

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 08:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on May 15, 2017, 02:41:32 pmI think people confuse learning and quick results. They use pre-made examples to get results fast. And the market delivers. If you search, you can get a board which will do something for you very quickly. However, this is opposite to learning. Learning occurs not when you observe what others have made, but when you do it by yourself. Learning cannot be done quickly and requires time. Moreover, the more time someone spends learning, the better he learns.It's like you would take a taxi to the airport, which would get you there really quick, and then you would think that you have learned driving a car. Sounds a little bit silly, doesn't it?IMHO, The best way to learn is to get plain FPGA without any bells and whistles.