CEX CPU Packaging - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: paul_g_787
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 02:11:30 pm
content: Apparently CEX think this is appropriate packaging for a CPU

author: paul_g_787
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 02:12:28 pm
content: And I don't even wanna know what this crud is on it.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:53:26 pm
content: If I were in your position I would send this back.You have no idea of knowing what ESD damage could have been caused and some devices can be 'walking wounded'. Think about the Intel chips that failed in NAS drives where the clock pin was not quite strong enough to last 20+ years.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 06:24:47 pm
content: Nice.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 08:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 09, 2022, 05:53:26 pmMe too.I got some RAM from ebay and it was packaged in polystyrene foam, so I returned it for a refund. I was actually lucky, because I made a mistake and ordered the wrong type, so I had an excuse to return it. I did order the right type, but from a different supplier who fortunately packaged it properly.

author: paul_g_787
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 11:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: evb149 on July 09, 2022, 03:49:40 pmYes there is some white thermal grease on there. Although I have no idea what the brown crud is.

author: paul_g_787
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 11:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 09, 2022, 05:53:26 pmYes I am going to send it back. Although last time I had a problem with CEX (A scratched game disc that would not play) they refused to refund it so I had to get the bank involved.Fortunately I paid for the CPU using paypal so should be covered if they act useless again.

author: niconiconi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 01:31:25 am
content: At this point, I'm quite surprised about how rare we see ESD damages in electronics.Many cards and chips, including CPUs, are handled like this daily in computer stores and repair shops, without any precautions (though, I've checked the transparent packages that originally come with RAM and CPUs, they're indeed ESD-safe, but any packages in secondary markets are suspects). I had received a 10 Gigabit Ethernet card in many layers of bubble wraps, it still works. We also see popular development boards like Arduino or Raspberry Pi with zero ESD protections on GPIOs, the I/Os go straight into the ASIC, and many boards are carelessly handled by hobbyists, yet most still work(myself included, I once physically touched the SoC on a Pi while explaining the danger of ESD - it instantly crashed, but continued to work after power cycling).My conclusions are that engineering-level ESD tests and controls are meant to be 100% repeatable and rigorous, the IEC 61000-4-2 is quite a strict test, but even a pretty loose and weak 2 kV human-body model is still a real engineering test under laboratory conditions.In real life, if you allow a factor of uncontrolled luckiness, the "ESD passing rate" goes up. In addition, a fully-assembled board is probably less likely to be damaged by ESD because there are many components on the board to absorb the energy, especially the decoupling capacitors in the power supply. Also, ESD damages can be latent failures that are not tolerated in production, but in practice at user's side, these failures may never even show up if the component is not operated at the extremes of their ratings - who cares if the on-chip ESD diodes on an interface become slightly leaky?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 10:17:59 am
content: Yes, in my experience devices are quite ESD tolerant, I have even felt a 'shock' when touching a Zynq FPGA board without a wrist strap and it still worked OK afterwards.But I've definitely still killed a few things from what I can only assume to be ESD so I take many more precautions now.

author: andy2000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 04:21:28 pm
content: The problem is that ESD damage can cause a delayed failure. Unless the chip was cheap, I'd return it.I have seen strange failures in Intel CPUs that may have been caused by ESD. For example, I have a Haswell i7 that only works if I disable one core in BIOS. If I don't, it does strange things. Windows will boot, but various UI elements start behaving progressively worse, and stop responding. I've been using it as a triple core in a home theater PC for over 5 years.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:09:45 pm
content: And there the lesson was learned:Never ever ever deal with CEX.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 10, 2022, 05:09:45 pmEh, I've not had too much bother with them - I think it depends on what you buy from them.I had a Samsung S5 from them die after a year and a half and they exchanged it within their warranty for an equivalent. The manager waived the higher price as that one had more internal storage.I also had a GTX 780 die on me that I'd bought from them after a year - and they also replaced that - but with a GTX 1060 which was a decent upgrade.Annoyingly I tried to buy some 28" Samsung 4K monitors from them, online during lockdown III. They took the cash and send me a dispatch note only to email me 3 days later with a grovelling apology about how they can't sell monitors online due to transit damage and please have your money back. Er, but why could I buy those on your website? Crickets...However for some of their items the prices aren't that competitive so you have to value the warranty and being able to see the item in person.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:34:12 pm
content: The other side of the fence is the worst though. They screw over the people selling the stuff to them.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2022, 05:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 10, 2022, 05:34:12 pmIn what way? They might offer you a low price for it, but then you don't have to deal with eBay/gumtree/etc. which is a nightmare on its own. Kind of like how selling your car to a dealer will always get you less price than going private but then you've got all the risks of a private sale.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 04:28:17 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 09, 2022, 08:26:36 pmYears ago on Ebay I had things sent in all sorts of unsuitable packaging including regular plastic shopping bags which I found unexpected at the time so I started to remind sellers not to forget the anti static bag.This year quite few sellers don't seem to bother and ignore my request and reminders in the order notes. I now tell them that if it arrives in a non anti static bag, I will class it as dead on arrival, open a case for a full refund and demand for a return where the seller either pays for the return and issue me a returns form or they can come and pick it up themselves.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 07:11:27 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on July 11, 2022, 04:28:17 amYou don't even need to do that. When I returned it, there was an option to say it was packaged inappropriately.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 07:55:34 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 10, 2022, 05:43:10 pmThe pricing differences are terrible to the point of being predatory.Hardware £500 newEBay price £350CEX offer price £150CEX sale price £420When CEX and Cash Converters are the only place available to you to sell your assets to make ends meet, which is realistic in a lot of places, it’s predatory. I know someone who was in debt and needed to clear stuff out quickly and they got utterly screwed.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 08:04:57 am
content: Quote from: niconiconi on July 10, 2022, 01:31:25 amYet, random unexplained failures which are never investigated are common in electronics.The problem with ESD is indeed delayed damage.My observation is, people who don't take ESD seriously (and I don't mean you need to buy all expensive crap; no, pretty simple mitigation strategies are good enough; I mean people who deny the existence of the issue), also seem to struggle with... everything. It is hard to say if it is just correlation ("those big shots are not going to tell me what to do!" IQ90 Dunning-Kruger, so that the same attitude causes other problems, too), or whether there is correlation involved (hidden ESD damage causing problems, and these people being unable to connect the dots). These people just shrug off the problem as one-off unexplained incident which is "just normal".In reality of course, decent ESD practices cost almost nothing to implement. Static shielding bags cost next to nothing and can be reused numerous times, so you normally don't need to buy them, just decide to use them instead of throwing them into trash. Tabletop ESD mat which comes with a grounding clip costs like $20 and lasts for years or even decades, and that is pretty much all you need to buy.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2022, 10:58:18 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 11, 2022, 07:55:34 amThe general rule for retail is that the price for items in the store is about 2-3x what it cost to manufacture.So it's not surprising that they offer around half to buy it as they sell it for. They have rent, electricity, staff and insurance costs and they offer a warranty on the products they sell.If you want to get more you have to do that work yourself. There's absolutely nothing predatory about offering an easy option that gives you less money.