OZ: Cooktop Power Point Switch - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:21:14 am
content: Does anyone know where to but a standard double or single switched power point, but with a 35-40A isolation switch for a cooktop?i.e. a switch like thishttp://excellife.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/HPML0618-ED770_40DPCTPWE_ED770_40DPCTPUG_Excel-Life_Dedicated-Plate-1-Gang-Double-Pole-Switch-Engraved-Cook-Top-40A_Data-Sheet-V2.pdfbut that integrates into a standard power point like this:Thanks.

author: Moshly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:38:34 am
content: http://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Products/ProductDetail?catno=30M35OV

author: dave_k
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:40:44 am
content: You might be able to use a Clipsal 2025XA, and substitute the switch with a Clipsal 30M35COOK.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:44:23 am
content: That layout is available with 10A switch mechanisms all around from a number of manufacturers.To get your high current extra switch, you would be best to buy one of those and then get a suitably rated switch mechanism and swap it.Quote from: dave_k on March 30, 2017, 08:40:44 amSomething like that ^^^

author: Moshly
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:49:17 am
content: Actually scratch that, Its only one pole, they also have one with nothing written on it.You could use a industrial din relay ? mount it in a fuse box under the bench.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 08:58:12 am
content: I'm pretty sure those switches won't fit the holes for the little 10A ones.I may be totally insane, but.. can you not get a plate to take a socket and a dedicated switch?Clipsal 2000/2Mate with:Clipsal 2031V45(do you need DP? 2013VD32)andClipsal 2000V15All you need's a simple box.E: And said box would be aClipsal 2157/2And yes, if all you've got is a single box you're going to have to attack the wall. Best to get it over with quickly, before anyone gets attached to that piece of plaster.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:12:43 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 30, 2017, 08:58:12 amNope, has to go into a standard power point sized hole on a glass splashback.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:14:26 am
content: I think you might be stuffed. I certainly haven't seen any AU offerings which take a >30A switch and a socket.Is the glass up yet? If it's not, get it cut again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:18:00 am
content: Quote from: dave_k on March 30, 2017, 08:40:44 amThey have a brochure for that it seems:http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/Files/Brochures/A0000272.pdfhttp://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/Files/Brochures/A0000153.pdf

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:21:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 30, 2017, 09:18:00 amNothing seems to say where that FITs, though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:23:51 am
content: Also available in single switche socket with extra switch.C2015X + 30M35COOKDon't need dual power point.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 09:26:00 am
content: Yeah, looks like it might. They're, uh, lacking in the documentation department, as always. Hell of a small body for a 35A switch, though.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:18:49 am
content: High current one might be quite a bit deeper than a standard outlet.Do you actually need the switch to be accessible? - presumably cooker has its own controls - could you hide a switch in a cupboard?Or maybe standard switch and a remote contactor

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:24:23 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 30, 2017, 10:18:49 amThey have much the same requirement we do, isolation switch exposed and visible within 2m.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:25:55 am
content: No the switch needs to be accessible, as if for a chip fire. So slightly to the side.You can get a 35amp mechanism from any wholesaler. They will be marked Hob. (Some hangover from the British days).30M35HOBYeah I don't know how they can cram it in.IIRC terminating 6mm csa wire into it can be a bit of a jam.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:28:39 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 30, 2017, 10:25:55 amIt would appear standard markings include cooker, hob, oven, and range, plus c/top, stove, and hotplate.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:56:15 am
content: Yeah under Australian rules the only kitchen item that needs an isolating switch is an electric cooktop.Hopefully the wholesalers will have something appropriate in stock maybe hotplate, hob or cooker.You can get a bigger format switch marked cooker but you have to lose the power outlets.Not sure what the other brands do, but for 35amps you don't want to go to EBay.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 10:57:39 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on March 30, 2017, 10:56:15 am30M35COOK:

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 11:29:25 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 30, 2017, 09:26:00 amNot really. They're not designed for more than a couple of full load disconnects and it's almost always a purely resistive load.I had a new switchboard put in recently and the sparkle insisted on retro fitting one of these. I spoke to an inspector who clarified it wasn't required as I wasn't working on or upgrading the appliance or circuit, so I had words with the sparkle and got him to see reason.If you have to fit one though, these single mechs are a good way to do it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 01:55:24 pm
content: Guess what ads I'm getting now .....

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 03:14:19 pm
content: Just use a small switch and a relay or SSR that can handle the amps

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 03:15:31 pm
content: Quote from: grifftech on March 30, 2017, 03:14:19 pmI'm not even sure that'd be compliant and it'd be a hell of a lot more work.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 03:47:45 pm
content: Don't trust the ratings on Clipsal, those are really optimistic about current ratings, they typically only will handle the rated current for a few switch cycles before cooking themselves. I have had to change a few that burnt out with only a 10A load ( kettle) over a period of around 6 months. Fine for lighting, where you have a 3A load max, but the 16A rating is just junk.Failure mode is they either melt the contacts out of the plastic, or just weld themselves together entirely. Only bonus is you can remove it a lot easier than to do the same for a CBI unit, but the CBI at least will handle the 16A load for a while.not good for a product that claims to comply to both SABS and AUS standards, I have had bad luck with the current Chinese made ones.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2017, 04:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 30, 2017, 03:15:31 pmProbably contactor rather than SSR for safety. Just need to use one that doesn't hum when closed.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 12:48:01 am
content: Quote from: BradC on March 30, 2017, 11:29:25 amThis is the aspect that I believe will allow these switches to live a long and happy life. In normal operation, they only have topass30A, not switch it. If you use it as an isolator, it will be turned on and off when there is no load connected. The typical exception case would be that someone might turn ononehotplate, realise the master switch is off and then turn it on - which will represent a clearly sub-maximal load. I can't think how anyone would turn on all the hotplates first andthenturn on the master.As for assessing how capable any given switch mechanism is for the ratings it has been given - I will leave that to the manufacturers and to the sparkies who can offer feedback from the field.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 01:14:35 am
content: Could i ask when this new requirement came into effect? about 2 years back we had a new electric stove and cooktop installed by a licensed sparky, he even had to run wires and install new circuit breakers for it, but there was no mention of an isolation switch?its a 7.5KW inductive model if that makes any difference,

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2017, 03:23:29 am
content: The switch for hotplates has been is at least since 2007, but in ammendment 2 it specifically mentions induction cooktops.Apparently it was 2012 when ammendment 2 came out.Quotehttps://www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/13613/AMENDMENT20220TO20AS_NZS203000.pdf