SMD Soldering Practice Boards - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 02:53:43 pm
content: I found that I really needed to get off my butt and make sure I can solder SMD devices properly. This when I ordered a clock kit and realized it had mostly SMD components LOL. I didn't realize it but there are actually SMD practice boards on Ebay you can order. They don't do much when assembled, except turn on or flash some LEDs, but this tells you if you soldered it all properly. The one in the pic simply has a lot of low value resistors in series, some diodes in series, and an LED. If you put it together right and apply about 9V the LED will light. It also has an IC but it isn't electrically connected it's just for practice.I started off with the 0603 and it's going pretty well so far.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 04:11:09 pm
content: Did you use extra flux? The solder wets and flows much better with it.Also, if you can afford a cheap ebay stereo microscope you will be able to see the details much better.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 04:28:32 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on May 16, 2015, 04:11:09 pmYep, I got a flux pen, 0.3mm solder, a small tip for my Hakko, and a board holding vise. I just got all the 0603's soldered. So far it's going pretty well.QuoteCurrently I have a set of magnifying glasses that I'm using.As far as the microscope, are you talking about something like this - or a different model -http://www.ebay.com/itm/10X-20X-Excellent-Binocular-Stereo-Microscope-/141662194572?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fbb98b8c

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 08:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 16, 2015, 04:28:32 pmYou want a stereo microscope with good lighting and magnification of ~x5-x10. Extra points for zoom and long boom.I am using this one (no boom)http://amzn.com/B00A15N1ZAThere are many other models in the market, for example this one (long boom, no zoom)http://amzn.com/B0056X4RRSFrom my experience a microscope make a big difference with soldering SMDs. You really see what's going on, not just during soldering but also inspecting after reflowing in a oven. There is at least one thread here about microscope selection.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 09:00:41 pm
content: Tidy work is all part of a dancing act, will a few key things needed to do a good job.CLEAN tipLeaded solderTweezersMagnification. Depends on how old your eyes are, dual lense heatset is all I needTemp control.Too finer tip can be a curse as it won't hold enough solder.Needle tips are hard to use for other than very fine work when there is little thermal mass.Chisel or hoof styles seem to be the most popular.For SMD passives, I just wet a pad with solder, hold the device in place and re-heat, then solder the other pad. Too much solder on the tip or added will leave balling like yours, a concave fillet is whats required.If it looks ugly, get the sucker out and do a pad again.I'd add you job looks nice and clean.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 09:14:34 pm
content: Do you have hot air?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 09:58:29 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on May 16, 2015, 08:51:05 pmOK thanks for the links.Quote from: tautech on May 16, 2015, 09:00:41 pmThe Hakko tip I got for this does have a very small chisel tip, and it seems to be working very well. It's model # T18-D08QuoteThanks, it's turning out pretty good. I watched quite a few SMD soldering tutorials on You Tube. Some were good, others not so. Some people seemed to fidget with each piece so much it seemed they couldn't leave well enough alone. One guy was even putting some sort of putty under SMD parts to keep them from moving! I'll see if I can find that video and post it.I'm now going to try the 0805's.Quote from: pickle9000 on May 16, 2015, 09:14:34 pmNot yet, but I would bet I'll have one sooner than later. Got any suggestions? I've seen some threads on this forum about some of the El Cheapo ones, but there seemed to be a concern about the internal wiring safety. It's the ones that go for ~ $50 - $60. Maybe their made better now.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2015, 10:13:55 pm
content: I've found the skew or knife tips can be handy, they are long enough to heat both pads of a passive and allow it to be swept off or picked off with tweezers.I'd add I still use a chisel tip for populating and the skew tip only for rework.Hot air is great to have, it's the most convenient way to do some PCB work however for the few new boards I do, I just hand solder. Keeps the skill levels up.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 12:11:19 am
content: Check this out. The guy puts putty under the SMD parts. You can skip ahead to about 4.5 m.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 12:18:56 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 17, 2015, 12:11:19 amNever used such stuff, for hand work just tack a lead or two to a pad.Common in wave soldering, so the wave won't dislodge components.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 09:39:15 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 17, 2015, 12:11:19 amSeems to work quite well for a SOIC. Maybe not essential but whatever.(hope he doesn't do it to resistors...)

author: djQUAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 12:22:53 pm
content: I agree with tautech. I also use the K series tips for my Hakko stations when working on SMDs.Makes it a lot easier by being able to heat both terminals at the same time and let the molten solder pull the parts into alignment.With some tricks, you could even use it to remove excess solder and produce the right concave joints and also remove solder bridges between IC pins.http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_k.html

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 02:53:13 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 16, 2015, 10:13:55 pmGreat I'll get one of those knife tips.I finished the little board, and the LED lit up, so I guess it's a success.I got one more practice board, a little bigger. It has a 555 timer and a CD4017 and it's supposed to flash LEDs in sequence. If anyone else is just getting into SMD these practice boards can be found all over Ebay for cheap.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 05:48:39 pm
content: The board is the very first listing on eBay searching for smt practice board. $5.04 with shipping. Since it actually does something, I might have to get 1 or 2 to practice on.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 06:01:38 pm
content: I ordered 10. Might have to get a group together and have them bring soldering tools at the next ham meeting to do a little practise. Seeing as most are on the high side of 50 I probably will have to take a few magnifiers along so that they can actually see the parts, along with around 1l of flux.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 07:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 17, 2015, 02:53:13 pmClose ups?It SHOULD now be marked by members.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 07:27:26 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 17, 2015, 07:09:07 pmOK, but go easy on me now LOL -Note: There was no chip for U4

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 07:38:58 pm
content: Nice, if you look at the RH pad of R5, that's what you should be trying to achieve, a concave solder fillet that is strong and conserves solder.We're all a little heavy handed on solder, but you just study some PCB's from new designs and see now little solder is actually required, do you see components fall off?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 07:45:05 pm
content: More looking, D1 (Melf) + pad is perfect,concave fillet from top to bottom.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 10:37:40 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 17, 2015, 07:38:58 pmYep, it's tempting to add too much solder.Again for anyone interested, here's the three types of practice boards I found on Ebay.Type OneType TwoType Three

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 10:51:04 pm
content: The concave solderers are preferred because they allow to inspect and confirm the wetting. With a bump it's hard to identify cold solderer.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:00:29 pm
content: OK dumb question for the day. All the SMD resistor sizes have value markings printed on them, but the caps don't.Why?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:23:29 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 17, 2015, 11:00:29 pmAccording to this site:http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/capacitor/capacitor-markings.phpQuoteBut I don't buy it, surely they could add markings but it probably increases cost and that's probably the real reason.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 17, 2015, 11:23:29 pmI don't buy it either. I just opened a strip of .1 uF caps for the next practice board, and they have just as much space on the top as an 0603 resistor.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 17, 2015, 11:26:13 pmBut who is going to increase their cost and the manufacturers will purchase the cheaper non-marked ones anyways? It has no benefit for anyone unless it must meet a standard and then all the consumers will pay for markings that 99.999% of the consumers won't care at all.Edit: plus the ceramic material might require a more expensive process for the markings not to rub off.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 17, 2015, 11:29:53 pmBut that just begs another question -Why markanySMD component if it increases cost? Why mark resistors with values? Why mark other SMD components with anything?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:48:29 pm
content: For SMD you need one of the many tweezer type measuring tools, some just plug into your DMM, but if you want quality:http://www.advancedevices.com/I have an older set of these and I WOULDN'T be without them.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2015, 11:58:00 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 17, 2015, 11:48:29 pmI am using a cheap one from amazon ~$20 and it works great for me. R, C and diods and LEDs

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 12:07:58 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 17, 2015, 11:48:29 pmOuch those are 'spensive!I could go for some that plug into my bench meter though.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 12:29:15 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 18, 2015, 12:07:58 amYou'd happily pay that much for a scope, right?Well I use mine much more than a scope, and 10+ years since I bought mine I havent forgotten the pricebut as I've said, I'd buy them again.IIRC Mastec has a cheap version, nowhere near as much functionality, but handy all the same.I'll see if I can find a link.....

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 01:12:31 am
content: Hmm, would this do?http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Testing-Tweezers-Probe-Leads-For-Multimeter-Tester-SMD-Probe-/271592723134Of course there are the 1st I found, there might be other ones cheaper or better

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 01:16:40 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 18, 2015, 01:12:31 amI hope so because I just ordered a pair like that not 30 minutes ago!

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 01:22:34 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 18, 2015, 01:12:31 am- You could solder some appropriate pogo pins on and that would probably make them OK to use.- There has been a fair but of talk about resistors losing their markings. I hope they stay, but I doubt it will be in the long run.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 02:17:37 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 18, 2015, 01:16:40 amI had better results with the Mastech ms8910 ($18.05 on amazon) than this one. The tips of this one are very poor.YMMV

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 07:32:45 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 18, 2015, 02:17:37 amSo with a Mastech Ms8910 and eliocor's Lindstrom SM-108 tweezer (plus a soldering iron and solder) you could be soldering SMDs? Or are there some other tools generally needed?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 07:48:35 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on May 18, 2015, 07:32:45 amMagnification.Headset does the little SMD work I do just fine, but I use the a hell of a lot for general work too.Old eyes.They do work OK, just don't expect miracles from them:http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-Smart-SMD-Tester-Capacitance-Meter-Multimeter-MS8910-3000-counts-LCD-display-Auto-Scanning-Auto/32316959233.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.126.pRE4HN

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 10:37:41 am
content: If I understand it correctly to work with SMD you'd need1) Properly fabricated PCBs so forget about making at home2) Very very clean environment and pure white in colour so you can spot them little pieces3) hot air machine and good quality soldering iron with special tip (shovel shaped)4) PCB holder5) Stereo microscope with long stem or head goggles6) Flux and solder and braid something or otherHave I missed anything?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 12:03:33 pm
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 10:37:41 amGotta have some good tweezers to handle the parts too.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 01:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 10:37:41 amYou can use SMD for prototyping on cheap stripboard with very few special tools.0805 and 0603 resistors and caps bridge the gaps between strips nicely, and save a lot of space. Once you get the hang they are quicker to use than through-hole.With care, you can use SOT-23 transistors on stripboard as well:Tripad board works well, but you can also cut tracks with a craft knife.Doesn't look as pretty as a proper PCB, but it works.ICs still need to be through-hole or mounted on an adapter for stripboard prototyping, though.If you have good eyes all you really need is tweezers, a decent iron, fine solder and lots of flux.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 02:49:54 pm
content: can you please suggest the appropriate flux?

author: tron9000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 03:10:45 pm
content: I find having a little tub of Tippy solder tip cleaner near by is good for refreshing the tip if it gets a bit gummed up. It stink! but shoving it in that then giving it a wipe on the sponge and the tips like new!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 03:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 10:37:41 amAlways done mine with home etched PCB's. No masks. Layouts and pads are important as to not cramp things for hand population.Restricted myself to SOIC and SOT-23/6 and 0805 discretes plus a good few very small signal and zener diodes.I'd go to 0603 happily, but 0805 is what I have.Good solders are the key, sorry I have little idea what I use, I've had them for years. 1 Multicore something, 2 RS AG alloy, 3 who knows, looks, melts and works like solder.Don't leave PCB's too long after etching without protection against tarnishing. I spray mine with laquer after post etch checks and again after soldering.Sucker is always needed to fixDon't often need hot air, quite rarely in fact and almost never for PCB population.Tweezers are a MUST.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 03:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 02:49:54 pmI use an Edsyn FL88 flux pen, but the Electrolube SMF12P pen may be more readily available.Solder is Qualitek 60/40 Tin Lead 0.38mm.Edsyn FL22 flux gel is also highly recommended - it comes in a syringe and has a thicker consistency than the liquid flux pens. It's pricey, though.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 04:55:57 pm
content: If you want something a little harder, try01005.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 06:14:37 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 18, 2015, 03:17:48 pmDon't you need to tin the pads and then mask them to prevent bridging?

author: Canobi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 07:01:20 pm
content: Never had a problem with home etched so far either. I've gone down as far as 0603 with one or two components, but it gets tricky. I actually really enjoy SMD work, I find it very therapeutic.Thogh to make thing a little simpler I've just got some solder resist film to test out, and as I don't have a design that's ready to etch, I thought I'd knock out some discreet component breakouts to use on a breadboard so I can progress with my current project (the one drawback with SMD that, can't use em on a breadboard as is).One SMD soldering tip is to warm the PCB prior to soldering as it will help with ground planes lacking relief vias (only really works with solder resist layer PCBs mind).For our many legged little friends, lots and lots of flux and a wick on standby (I use BLT no clean liquid flux).You can get away with minimal tools after you've had some decent practice, iron, flux, wick, tweezers and a glass/magnification. I've been soldering for nigh on 33yrs now and only occasionally reach for hot air.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 07:52:03 pm
content: What process do you use right after etching? Do you tin it somehow? Do you prepare a solder mask?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 08:43:17 pm
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 06:14:37 pmIF you go finer than SOIC, IMHO yes.Thats fine enough for my needs.BUT I've never used additional flux, no doubt with better fluxing I could go finer.I do get a little bridging, often easily fixed with MOREsolder and suck off the excess.With leaded solders the incorporated flux is normally plenty, but if your iron is a little hot the flux might flash off leaving you short of flux, that's when bridging happens.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 09:37:12 pm
content: Help.What's going on with my tweezers? One side of them clings to the chips! I've cleaned them with alcohol, lightly filed them, and even rubbed a hot soldering iron on the one side thinking it was some sort of sticky residue, but nothing will stop them from clinging to the chips!Is it magnetism? The chips are attracted to magnet. These are supposed to be non-magnetic tweezers.Of all the weird problems ...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 09:46:42 pm
content: Bugger.Got a tramping compass? Check for magnetisim.Gentle baking required? Add chocolate icing when cool.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 09:57:22 pm
content: Maybe use watch maker's tweezers which are guaranteed to be non magnetic.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 10:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 18, 2015, 09:46:42 pmHold on ... I'm taking another picture. I think I discovered a new physics property.Stand by -

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 10:25:41 pm
content: Behold - Magnetic wood.I cut the end off a flat toothpick about the same size as the chip, and it sticks to the same part of the tweezers!What the hell is going on?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 10:32:43 pm
content: Rosin on tweezers.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 10:47:17 pm
content: Static?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 11:06:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mr.B on May 18, 2015, 10:47:17 pmOnly on one side?Quote from: pickle9000 on May 18, 2015, 10:32:43 pmpickle9000 - I think you must be right, but it's hard to believe. I've cleaned and even filed the tips of the tweezers, it's hard to imagine any rosin is left, but I'm going to work on it with several other chemicals.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2015, 11:14:51 pm
content: The rosin could be on the resistor and transfered back to the tweezers after cleaning.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 12:28:52 am
content: Quote from: akis on May 18, 2015, 10:37:41 am1. Nice but not necessary. Besidesstripboardmentioned byrolycat, there are alsoSMD to DIP adapterboards for different package types. There are even some designed just for passives. Once soldered up, you can then insert them into a bread board or use solder to connect them as needed. It's also possible to dead bug with SMD's and some wire as well.2. Good lighting is highly recommended (if not necessary, depending on eyesight), but clean, meh. Just enough of a spot to work on is all that's genuinely required.3. Hot air is nice, but you can solder most packages just with an iron and appropriate tip, which in most cases, is a properly sized chisel/screwdriver shape for the pad. Drag tips have their place, as do the "shovel" types if I'm thinking of the same shape you are (rarely needed actually; meant for soldering a lot of pins simultaneously).4. In most cases (i.e. single side), you don't actually need a PCB holder, as it will lay flat on your work surface. They do make working with components on both sides of a board far easier though.5. Depends on the size packages you're working with and your eyesight. Magnifying head visor will be nice to use with larger packages for example, but may not be necessary. There will be a point however, that you will need magnification, and that will extend to a microscope if the package is small enough (say 0402 & smaller).6. You'll want to use quality consumables, whether it be for SMD or thru-hole (solder, flux, and desolder braid/wick). Brands such as Multicore, Kester, Alpha (Cookson), AIM (American Iron & Metals), Indium, MG Chemicals (best wick/braid I've ever used), ITW/Techspray, and Stannol. There are some quality Japanese brands, but given the heavy counterfeiting, I'd just skip them. Simplest way to avoid getting garbage is to buy from distributors (eBay can be really risky IME).As per flux, I'd recommend at least RMA, but RA would be better for a hobbyist IMHO, as it can work with both new and old work (heavy oxidation). In particular,MG Chemicals Rosin 835is available in small bottles (hobbyist friendly sizes of 100ml & 1L). I believe Stannol does as well. Some prefer tacky/gel flux for drag soldering (doesn't spread as much as liquid).MG Chemicals 8341-10mlfor example. Chipquik is another popular brand.FWIW, I find no-clean formulations are harder to clean than rosin based flux as a general rule (purely synthetic; some is actually rosin or rosin based, which is easier, so read the datasheet if possible). I also opt for liquid in bottles as it's a lot less expensive than the disposable pens (you can dispense it with needle bottles, refillable felt or brush pens, or just dip an artist brush for example).Quote from: xrunner on May 18, 2015, 12:03:33 pm+1Although the very specific shapes have their place, you can do a LOT with a couple of pair (say a #5 & #7 pattern inSAmaterial, which is anti-magnetic & anti-acid). So look for 5SA (or 5.SA/5-SA) for example on the tweezers itself. Watchmakers tend to use models designated by anSwhich is magnetic and vulnerable to acids (these also tend to just have a number without any letter designation stamped or etched into the tweezers).I'd suggest Pakistani made as a minimum if you can. Swiss is best, followed by Italian, Pakistani, and finally Chinese IME (there's also tweezers from Japan, Taiwan, and India). If money is really tight for example, VETUS is about the best of the Chinese brands from what I understand.Given what I'm seeing for UK prices though, Swiss can be had for ~10GBP or less (8.66GBP for each pair linked) at Farnell under their Duratool brand(5-SA&7-SA). BTW, these particular Duratool pairs are rebranded Ideal-Tek, which is as good as it gets IME (example of their5-SA). Same exact pair, but at more than 2x the cost. BTW, Ideal-Tek ODM's the tweezers for Lindstrom and Belzer for example.Sorting through all of the Duratool tweezers (P/N's that start with D00* = Swiss made), they have aDURATOOL D00349 TWEEZER SET, SA, 5PCSkit for 35.57GBP.So that makes these Duratool pairs one hell of a deal right now.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 06:53:20 am
content: Say I have a home made PCB I have just etched. Do I apply the rosin "http://uk.farnell.com/multicore-loctite/pc21a/flux-pc21a-5l/dp/1115472" over the whole PCB and wait 10 mins to dry? Or do I only apply it as I go along?Currently I have been using SK10 on my PCBs. I let them dry overnight,http://www.rapidonline.com/tools-equipment/kontakt-chemie-flux-sk10-spray-200ml-87-0715- is this more or less the same?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 07:59:13 am
content: Quote from: akis on May 19, 2015, 06:53:20 amI'd just go with what you're using and flux core leaded solder.This stuff is fine for me:http://www.jaycar.co.nz/Service-Aids/Chemical-Aids/Aerosols/Circuit-Board-Lacquer-Spray-Can/p/NA1002

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 11:26:25 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 19, 2015, 12:28:52 amVery nice find.One thing that is often worth checking with kit from Farnell is whether their sister company CPC have it cheaper.This is the case with these tweezers. The5-SAand7-SAcan be had for £6 each, and the5-piece setis only £28.45.As with the Farnell prices, these are all ex VAT.CPC also have free postage on all orders at the moment.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 11:36:54 am
content: Nanofrog states-I'd suggest Pakistani made as a minimum if you can. Swiss is best, followed by Italian, Pakistani, and finally Chinese IME (there's also tweezers from Japan, Taiwan, and India). If money is really tight for example, VETUS is about the best of the Chinese brands from what I understand.I have a couple of the VETUS tweezers and I have been able to hold 0402 resistors to a practice board for soldering without any problem. I got them for less than $6 USD each off of the internet.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 12:30:17 pm
content: I worked on the tweezers some more with 600 grit sandpaper, and they are working a lot better. Must be flux wicking up onto the metal. Hard to believe it's that hard to remove. Somebody refresh my memory - what's supposed to be a good flux remover?Working on the 2nd board. The connections are OK but I still want to put too much solder on the tack pad. The second joint I usually do OK. It just looks so good when you are flowing solder it's hard to hold back.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 12:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on May 19, 2015, 11:26:25 amWasn't aware of CPC, so even better.To make things easier, here's the search results forDuratool D003*.Quote from: GreyWoolfe on May 19, 2015, 11:36:54 amYou can get Pakistani for around $6 if you're willing to hunt.FWIW, there's a clearance sale going on here in the US on a number of styles as well at Newark. Even those still at regular prices aren't horrible. Oddly enough, I also checked MCM, and it seems they're not even listed.Quote from: xrunner on May 19, 2015, 12:30:17 pmAlcohol (isopropyl, ethanol, methanol, or denatured work well and are inexpensive). If it's particularly stubborn, you can also use or add acetone or xylene (i.e. a 80% alcohol + 20% xylene makes for a good flux cleaner for more stubborn deposits but won't soften/melt plastics or take inks). Be careful with acetone as it's even more aggressive (i.e. can soften/melt plastics and take the silk screen legend markings off).FWIW, denatured alcohol, acetone, and xylene can be found in paint departments. The Kleen Strip brand from Home Depot does well IME for example (their denatured alcohol is a 50/50 mix of ethanol and methanol).

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 05:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 16, 2015, 09:00:41 pmOkay I am dancing extra hard here:* 0603 size is my standard go-to size* Old through-hole era 35W iron, NO temperature control* RoHS solder (tin-silver type)* Almost no tolerance on board (was intended to reflow but stencil got too expensive)* No magnification, bare eyes only (I do have 20/20 vision)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 08:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 19, 2015, 12:30:17 pmJust a light tinning of the tack pad is generally enough., hold the passive down and reheat that pad.OR different technique: load tip, place and hold component, touch conponent terminal and pad together while watching for fillet to form or solder to wick across the joint.Be prepared to cleanup any pad with a sucker.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2015, 08:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: technix on May 19, 2015, 05:37:06 pmIMO doable but without temp control the flux will be baked off too quickly, see if you can get a light dimmer and put it in series with your iron to tame the heat.For inspection, you should have a headset at least, without it you can't see the inperfections or tiny whisker like bridges no matter how good your eyesight is. High density PCB's more so.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2015, 06:55:36 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 19, 2015, 08:40:41 pmI have soldered several TQFP-100 packages (Altera EPM240/EPM570 CPLD eval kits) and flux boiling away too quickly does pose a problem. However since I do inspection with my multimeter, coupled with my 20/20 vision, magnification didn't came to me as a need really.About the iron, I think I will take one of my earlier IoT dimmer project board and make a digitally-controlled dimmer out of it, probably with temperature probe feedback.

author: savril
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 08:16:34 pm
content: I've done the same board as you. Did the same mistakes(too much solder) plus 2 pad lift and repaired. This board is inexpensive enough not to fear loosing the components or the board. It made me feel secure enough to get into SMD.However it didn't not light up the LED when I plugged it. I checked all the connections, diode orientation, that the LED was not fried, ... Only to discover that the total resistance was 12k and that I would have to plug it to mains voltage to get it to light up.So resistors values are random.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2015, 10:36:34 pm
content: Finished the second board. It simply flashes 10 LEDs in sequence using a 555 timer and a CD4017 decade counter. The hardest part was the tiny 0603 resistor packs with 4 10k resistors in each one. They are all just wired in series for a total of 200k, but when I tested the series total I got some reading in the 4 Megohm range. The second row had a bad connection to a pad, after touching them up it fixed it. Also had solder bridges on these when installing. Tough and tiny little buggers.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:58:26 am
content: That looks like a fun build for practice. At $5.25 USD a bargain even. No 0402 soldering though. I am ordering one.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 12:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on May 22, 2015, 11:58:26 amYea it's a pretty good idea if you just want to practice. The next board I think does the same sort of thing once it's done - flash 10 LEDs except they are in a circle on this one. Oh and another thing - it's got 0402's to solder. man, those things areTINY!After that I have a "real" kit to make. It's a clock kit that looked rather unique so I got one.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:16:46 pm
content: So this is what I treat as SMD soldering practise kit.The chip in the middle is Altera MAX II CPLD in 100-pin TQFP package, pictured EPM570T100C5N and I also have a couple of such boards populated with EPM240T100C5N. Supporting the CPLD is AMS1117 in SOT-223, a bunch of R and C's (1206 and 0805 footprints, and I populated all footprints with parts one size smaller - 0603 parts in 0805 footprints, 0805 parts in 1206 footprints) and a few LEDs (0805)

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 12:51:57 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 18, 2015, 02:17:37 amYou are correct ^^^Those El Cheapo SDM test clips for DMMs ... suck. I just got them the other day and I am disappointed.The tips are just not pointed enough to penetrate any surface contamination. They work OK, for the most part (although not all the time) on clean SMD parts. But anything already soldered - fuggetboutit.Lessons learned.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 02:05:35 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 21, 2015, 10:36:34 pmNot sure if I purchased from the same seller as you did - I purchased on eBay from asp_ezpone. The price was $4.25 plus $1.00 for shipping to the U.S.http://www.ebay.com/itm/351311595209?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITI ordered the kit and about 8 days later I received a package from asp_ezone saying sorry for the delay but the moment you bought this product it was out of stock. To show their concern for customer happiness they included 10 pieces of "Dupont" breadboard jumper cables which look nice enough.About 2 days later the original order for the SMD kit showed up.So that's about 10 days for delivery of a PC board with about 100 components from China for $4.25 plus $1.00 shipping and a free shipment of 10 breadboard jumper cables within the first 8 days just to maintain customer satisfaction.Amazing customer service!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 01:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 01, 2015, 02:05:35 amWow - that's a great outcome.I just ordered a pair of Mastech SMD RC tweezers. The other piece of junk I got that uses an external DMM wasn't worth spit.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 03:32:59 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 01, 2015, 01:07:47 pmThe MS8910 are very useful for smd work. Amazon sells also another Mastech kind that is more expensive and seems to have crappie tipshttp://amzn.com/B000WZVQR4I carefully filed the tips of the MS8910 to have better mechanical matching. Also, if you turn it off (rather than let it shut off), you need to press longer to turn it on again (I didn't realize that and thought that it's dead).

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 08:20:43 pm
content: Slightly off topic but two questions:1) Does anyone know if there is a "gullwing" tip for a Weller WESD51 soldering iron? If not, what would be the next best Weller (WESD51 compatible) tip for SMD drag soldering?2) I've been using Kester 48 lead-free RA solder .031" and it works pretty well but I'd like to try the same or something similar in .020"; Kester makes this in a 1lb reel but I'd like to try it in a smaller package first - anyone know of such a product (Lead Free RA .020 in a package one ounce or less)? From Kester would be great but I'm open to other recommended brands.Thx

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 01, 2015, 08:20:43 pmDoesn't appear they make a dedicated tip (gull wing, spoon, ...), but you can use others.Chisels, hoof types, and knife shapes will all work (just need to develop your technique). Hoof would probably be easiest (they're calling them single flat, such as the ETDD). Between a chisel or knife, the knife should be a little easier IMHO.Photo of an ETDD (largest hoof offered):Quote from: Electro Fan on June 01, 2015, 08:20:43 pmIf you're set on Kester 48 broken down into smaller packages, it looks like you'll have to resort to eBay (15ft. of Kester 48, 66 core, SAC305 alloy).If you can be more flexible on flux, then this might be of interest2 oz. SAC305, no-clean from SRA.But why not use lead based solder instead?It's a lot easier to work with, and it solves tin whiskers (one less thing to chase down).

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 10:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on June 01, 2015, 10:03:05 pmnanofrog - Good finds - Thanks!The eBay Kester solder looks good - I've been thinking about trying that particular version of their products. Just curious, how many feet do you think might come on the standard 1 lb roll (vs. the 15' which is A-OK/perfect for a trial)?And thanks for the tipon the ETDD

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 11:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 01, 2015, 10:54:04 pm~1000ft for .020" of 63/37 (never looked for length on lead-free).Less dense alloys such as SAC305 will be longer for a given weight & diameter.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 12:02:48 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on May 21, 2015, 10:36:34 pmMy board arrived today. Very excited. Unfortunately, I have a job related repair on my bench that comes firstWorst yet, it requires a systemboard that I have to get shipped to me because they are too expensive for us to each stock one.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2015, 12:55:29 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 02, 2015, 12:02:48 amCool - show us a pic when you are done. And make it a closeup shot - that's what they want to see for scrutiny.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2015, 11:16:47 pm
content: Got the Mastech MS8910 yesterday. I really like it - much better than those cheap DMM add-on probes. The sharp tips really make a difference. Not a bad little tester all in all.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 12:09:05 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 06, 2015, 11:16:47 pmI found it to be also useful detecting hidden bridges on smd ICS after reflow. It's easy to touch two adjacent pounds with the tips.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 12:16:08 am
content: Update on my board. Of course the damn thing doesn't work. I did a little troubleshooting yesterday and narrowed the problem down to the resistor packs. I will have to rework them and see what happens. Maybe tomorrow-too brain fried right now to do more than read posts.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 01:23:55 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2015, 12:16:08 amYea those are tiny and I had a hard time with 'em too. Take a break and come back to it tomorrow.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 03:13:10 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 06, 2015, 11:16:47 pmI got one a good while ago, I was a little disapointed with it compared to the Advanced Devies unit.Gave it to my best customer as a thank you.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 08:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 07, 2015, 01:23:55 amWell, the rework didn't go well. I ended up removing the 2 problem packs and cleaning the pads. Upon the resoldering attempt, I first lost a pad then lost the 2nd resistor pack I removed.Not a problem with the tweezers, just the ham fisted tweezers driver. No big loss, the price is cheap and it is good practice. I am going to get another kit and try it again. At least I will have parts if any go flying!Xrunner, what did you use to solder the packs? I used my Hakko 936 with a conical SMD tip and .031" 63/37 Kester 44. Even with the new and improved glasses and a headband magnifier, it was very hard to see what I was doing. Those leads are really close together and I'm not getting any younger.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 09:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 07, 2015, 03:13:10 amWhat did you like in the advance devices? What model?

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 09:21:32 pm
content: tautech recommended the Advanced Devices Tweezers to me...Ordered on Friday - tracking says they are in NZ now - should receive them tomorrow.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what-did-you-buy-today-post-your-latest-purchase!/msg687368/#msg687368What did I like about them?AccuracySpeedOLEDApparent build quality. (Will verify when they arrive)

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 09:44:14 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2015, 08:30:54 pmI used a small Hakko (T18 D08) tip and .3 mm solder. It's tough, no doubt.Quote from: tautech on June 07, 2015, 03:13:10 amWell compared to a $300 unit, yea I guess you'd be disappointed.It's just a hobby, so I draw the line on many expenditures, that little SMD tester is one example. Of course if you want the best go for the ST5S, but for hobby playing around the Mastech works OK and seems to be accurate.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 10:42:44 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on June 07, 2015, 09:14:32 pmThere has been a couple of model changes since I got mine a good few years ago.I think mine is the original: LR44 x 3 batteries, and side rocker/toggle switch. (STAD ver.3)Then they offered a rechargable pack with IIRC an inductive charging cradle.Latest model is a bit different and seems more compact:http://www.advancedevices.com/st5s/Seems the best priced model is:https://smarttweezers.3dcartstores.com/Smart-Tweezers-Colibri-PN-ST52CAD_p_73.htmlAlthough is is missing a few features of their other model.I've only got the straight tips for mine, I won't use it for PCB population, only component value checks and test. It's much faster than a DMM for simple checks, resistors, diodes etc, although one should always lift a leg for true accuracy.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 11:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2015, 08:30:54 pmUse flux, (flux pen will do) pre-tin one pad, add flux again this time on both pads and place resistor with some light weight on top (from your tweezers) so it doesn't tombstone while you solder the pre-tined one. Then do the other one.Clean with IPA to get rid off the sticky flux.Edit: a board holder like the one xrunner used will help a lot, to prevent the board from sliding around while working on it.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2015, 11:58:21 pm
content: Xrunner, I am using the same tip, so my choice is good. Miguelvp, I use MG Chemicals liquid flux through a syringe for control. I do use a PanaVice to secure the board. I go flux and tin 1 pad, solder that, solder the opposite pin and then go back and solder the rest. I also use ipa for cleaning. Maybe, X's board holder is more suitable as it sits flat on the work surface. I will have to look into that. I know there was a post on a new one on the market, I will have to go find it.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 12:10:40 am
content: It's called stickvise.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 12:13:32 am
content: thanks.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 12:47:04 am
content: I'm soldering a "real" SMD kit now. It's a little board I ran across on Ebay that does an FFT on an audio input and displays the results using LEDs. Should be a little fun to see it it works like they claim.I just need to make a small change. It's designed to accept a stereo input, and it sums the voltages from the L and R on the input plug through two resistors, and does the FFT on the combined audio. However, I'm going to use it on a mono input (using a mono plug) and I don't want the other input from the input stereo jack they supplied to get shorted to ground via the mono plug sleeve, so I will just leave one of the summing resistors off the board. All of this has to be gleaned from the schematic, as they do not supply any instructions whatsoever.http://www.ebay.com/itm/131366777479?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=430695780141&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 05:51:02 am
content: Quote from: tautech on June 07, 2015, 10:42:44 pmThere has been a couple of model changes since I got mine a good few years ago.I think mine is the original: LR44 x 3 batteries, and side rocker/toggle switch. (STAD ver.3)Then they offered a rechargable pack with IIRC an inductive charging cradle.Latest model is a bit different and seems more compact:http://www.advancedevices.com/st5s/Seems the best priced model is:https://smarttweezers.3dcartstores.com/Smart-Tweezers-Colibri-PN-ST52CAD_p_73.htmlAlthough is is missing a few features of their other model.I've only got the straight tips for mine, I won't use it for PCB population, only component value checks and test. It's much faster than a DMM for simple checks, resistors, diodes etc, although one should always lift a leg for true accuracy.The new ones have very small display. Seems to be a usability regression though I am judging only from the pictures. I looked at them for some time but the cost will be disproportionally to my hobby needs.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 06:18:41 am
content: @zaptaBeing OLED I figured that the contrast should be fairly good, and therefore very readable.Mine should arrive tomorrow or maybe the next day.I will post on the display quality.

author: savril
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 10:12:00 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 07, 2015, 11:58:21 pmPanaVice doesn't seem a great choice for SMD to me. I use a board holder at table level, it permit to rest you arm on the table which is better to get a steady hand. You should try to solder on you table without holder (you don't apply much pressure with SMD so that sould do it).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2015, 12:20:13 pm
content: Savril, I am learning smd in the Panavise is not the best. All my soldering has been through hole. I am probably going to treat myself to a stickvise as it seems that whenever I try to solder anything not being held in place, it moves on me, even on my rubber ESD mat. I will keep playing with cheap smd kits until I am comfortable. I am hopefully going to upgrade my soldering iron this year to something like the Thermaltronics TMT-2000 to get a shorter tip to hand distance for better control. I love my Hakko 936, but it feels a bit awkward and bulky to solder small smd components.

author: Canobi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 11:15:14 pm
content: I just finished making a reflow hotplate and was considering getting some of those practice boards to test it with (well I say finished, I still need to wrap it and box the main section but it's working) .I had a peak in the PCB scrap bin at work today and hit the jackpot. I found rucks of these unpopulated AC drive control boards which should prove to be quite good in learning how to solder in tightly packed areas too

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 10:43:04 pm
content: Been busy but made some progress on the little audio range FFT board. Don't have all the LEDs on yet but took a break to see if it was responding to an input - it was. The blurb about it on the seller's page didn't mention what frequency bins it uses, so was using my generator to manually scan it a bit. Looks like the first three bins (first three LED columns on the left) cover up to about 4 kHz.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 01:19:34 am
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on June 08, 2015, 12:20:13 pmAssuming there will only be parts on one side, why not lay it directly on your ESD mat?Should keep it from skittering around IME.

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2015, 01:43:13 pm
content: @Canobi: That "hot plate reflow" thingy looks extremely interesting !. Could you please post a couple more photos of it ? And some details ? Thanks a lot !

author: Canobi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2015, 01:09:39 am
content: Quote from: ale500 on October 05, 2015, 01:43:13 pmSorry for the late reply, been a bit busy with another project.The only other pic I have of it is an early WIP (see attached) but I will take some more for you.The base was a repurposed hi-fi chassis which I'd stripped clean for parts after it stopped working (iowa twin cassette IIRC). The heating element was given to me by the head engineer at work. We had this jig which heated large power modules for AC inverter drives before they went up the solder bath. That particular line of drive was phased out and the jig was just kicking around for ages. After making enquiries as to its fate and explaining why I was interested in it the head engineer let me take itThe temp control came from ebey and was originally for an electric cooker hob. Being as the element is AC it seemed an appropriate, if not exactly elegant solution to some form of control rather than just on or off.The hex pillars are also from work. At the time of building there was a plethora of different lengths to choos from so was able to play with the hight to find an optimum.The plate itself is a heat sink from another line of AC inverter drives.It also has an insulated armoured power lead going from unit to plug but I haven't yet got round to casing the main body.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 07:42:09 pm
content: My recent hand-soldering: AVR Inspro-512 board. EAGLE's default footprint for resistor networks are uncomfortable to solder, and the transistor array is, well, almost like crazy.