which SBC to get? raspi? beaglebone? ...? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2016, 05:17:23 pm
content: The time has come. I think i will get a single board computer.but which one? i can read the specs but we all know they are just parth of the truth.what am i going to do with it? i have no idea. two things in mind:-a small web server, also for things like partkeepr for the home lab. in this case it has to come with ethernet or wifi, an integrated video port would be nice too-more interesting, boss has asked if it would be possible to build an automated test machine and i've been toying with the subject. in this case it seems that beaglebone would be more appropriate but i base this assumption only on the fact that i've seen many open source cnc/laser cutter projects usigng the BBB, i have no idea why.ease of access to the peripherals would be nice, i know very little about linux, bash, etc. i do microcontrollers

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2016, 10:23:44 pm
content: The Pi is cheaper and has a few more options (like the zero) and tends to be a little more popular, its downside seems to be the less than open chipset on it. The BBB is more open from a hardware view, the data sheets are freely downloadable and all parts are orderable in single quantities through normal distributors.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 01:34:56 am
content: It really depends on the use case. Back in the day, BBB was an easy choice. Now, RPi3 is good for many things and would be the choice over BBB unless network throughput is important. RPi3 still has its Ethernet interface on the USB hub.There are many other choices out there for SBC nowadays, but for overall support (community or otherwise), RPi and BBB are still the primary ones to choose from.One nice thing with the BBB is that for an Arduino-like development environment it has a built-in IDE through which you can write code using JavaScript (node.js) and the BeagleBone API, also referred to as BoneScript, to interact with the GPIO pins. So, you don't have to do anything with Linux directly, if you don't want to, in order to have microcontroller-like functionality.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 03:21:02 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on November 16, 2016, 01:34:56 amtechnically you can do that on a raspi too with ASM coding, it's just more annoying and has a larger learning curve than a boomerang (badum tss)If money is not an issue I think there exist small 80x86 platform machines, not like a Galileo, but like a proper Mini-ITX type thing, just smaller. x86 beats the stuffing out of ARM any day of the year with it's better CISC based instruction set, giving more performance per instruction. It also has infinite ubiquity, something the Pi and Beaglebone don't have.Personally I have a dislike for Ti from the scam calculators they sell, but aside from that they are not bad.RasPis are good, but they take low cost as their priority, if you are looking for performance, you NEVER go RISC unless you have something that has a REALLY good IPS-CPS ratio, enough to beat out a modern Intel chip.If price is your concern, there is no better machine than the RasPi Zero, attach a USB hub with a network adapter and you now have a 10-15 dollarquad core(edit: still great machine) ARM machine.If you have time to waste and money to really blow, throw a load of RPi Zeros into a supercomputer grid. 40 nodes for 200 bucks, you're not that bad off, but of course this is reserved for people who have the time and money to program this into something useful, and the price of course doesn't count cables or other things.If size isn't your concern, you shouldn't be looking at SBCs as they are winners on the price to performance and size, but a real x86 machine can't be beaten as of yet. Not even Itanium nor POWER has gotten to it's level, such why they are not in ubiquity. x86 machines, even as SBCs have an almost INFINITE stockpile of software and hardware for pennies that will do what you want. Web server, automated testing, you name it, x86 can do it, and better than everybody else. Even something cheap like a Pentium will sweep a RasPi, and AMD is the budget machine lover (Except they stop at Micro-ATX in size).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 03:46:52 am
content: It'll come down what you want to do with it and what expansion options you want. I'm a huge fan of the Intel NUCs for small, low power but very capable machines. My only gripe so far with them is they don't make a dual-NIC model, which would be perfect as a router.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 07:26:39 am
content: i still have no idea of what i could really be doing with it.but one thing i dislike about the pi (for example) is that it claims to be low cost yet i always have to get some adapter or some other shit that brings the real price up where the it is the same as a cheap preassembled mini computer.question: how hard is it to access the peripherals? and how fast can i really do that? it is my understanding that the only/usual way is to use system calls and that is really slow?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 07:33:08 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 15, 2016, 05:17:23 pmLattePanda has an ATMega MCU built in (arduino supported) and can run windows or linux

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 08:22:55 am
content: Quote from: Psi on November 16, 2016, 07:33:08 am(don't care about the arduino stuff. i tend to study and learn and write my own code anyway)

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 09:36:45 am
content: Pi Pros:CheapWell supported, including a MASSIVE online communityLots of softwareBBB Pros:Lots of IOEmbedded flash on boardA real Ethernet interface (not via USB)If IO speed matters, the PRUs are useful but difficult to learnPi cons:USB Ethernet adapter is slower & with higher latencyUses SD card for all 'disk' operations: cheap cards may not survive very long when logging lots of dataBBB consLess widely supportedNo camera inputThere is a hardware design issue: sometimes the Ethernet interface chip is not reset properly so the network dissappears. This cannot be reset in software without resetting the whole board. Some units are worse than others, but most are OK

author: brucer37
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 10:43:40 am
content: I recommend the BBB. It fully open hardware - unlike the PI.with broadcom stuff.Edit: Supporting vendors that offer open hardware (without signing NDAs) supports the open source community.Support is good.Debian linux releases available athttp://elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBoneBlack_DebianMultiple sources.element14 currently have a BBB with Industrial rating for $46 exGST.I have several.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 11:32:01 am
content: yes. the arduino thing was just a remark. i'm not such an idiot that won't take it because it has the arduino plague on it it takes nothing to reprogram the avr mcu and write the code i want it to excecute.. i thinkQuote from: blueskull on November 16, 2016, 10:52:33 amthis raises a good point but i have no idea on the actual performances i could need.the possibility to go low level and the availability of a full datasheet to study the device in the BBB are appealing to me but the ethernet issue may really be an issue herelet's take my previous example shall we?i'd like to build an auto testing machine from scratch so i would need at least- control of the 4 axes, which would probably be delegated on a sub board with a microcontroller if i can't get it real-time enough and the SBC would just set the commands on where to move- control of the device programmer which may just be an usb device or a transistor that switch the button that write the firmware stored in the programmer if available- control of the external ADCs and DACs and digital signals (uart, spi, pwm, other protocols maybe ...) for testing <- on a separate sub board in the test head or if possible directly from SBC- control the whole thing directly by connecting a screen keyboard an mouse and launching the GUI or external control via for example ethernetthen at some point incorporating vision for better positioning of the heads.. but then where to put the camera interface? how far from the SBC? wouldn't it be the same to use something inbetween? lots of questions on this onewill require a long learning process in both mechanical and programming.. which is very challenging and exciting. aside the vision part i don't think i would really need a lot of processing power. the only advantage i see in the lattepanda could be the windows licence and that could may simplify programming by using visual studio if i delegate all the low level stuff to external boards... but at that point could skip the SBC entirely and design my own board that communicates via USB to the computer

author: brucer37
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 12:19:27 pm
content: On the elinux site there is also MachineKit image which implements LinuxCNC.The BBB board has an inbuilt Graphics Cape with HDMI. This Cape utilities IO pins. It is easy to disable to free used pins.Insteasd of using the HDMI interface you can use a LCD 4.3" or 7" LCD cape (with or without touch) and a wireless keyboard and mouse.Note: There is a warning in the SRM about driving IO pins before power up.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 02:08:15 pm
content: The one thing I love about the Pi is everything is on the Micro SD, no flash to break and no worries about flashing.Want to test something else or run another OS, just put another Micro SD in there. Same goes for backing things up.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 09:22:07 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on November 16, 2016, 03:21:02 amThe Pi Zero is only single core, not quad. The zero is based off the original Pi (one) which are single, the 2 and 3 are quad.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 09:25:53 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on November 16, 2016, 07:26:39 amYou don't need anything but a microSD card and power to use the Pi. I use whatever spares I had laying around from upgrading phones. We generally put a bigger microSD card in our phones every year or so so I have a few smaller ones left over and a couple power supplies from lost or broken phones.I've run most of mine headless so no keyboard, mouse or monitor.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2016, 09:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on November 16, 2016, 02:08:15 pmThe beagle will boot off a microsd fine, it just overrides the onboard flash.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 12:11:10 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on November 16, 2016, 09:36:45 amYeah, the PRUs look super useful for offloading the CPU, but not very friendly to develop for. It's the one thing about the BBB that I wish was more accessible to mere mortals.

author: brucer37
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 12:26:42 am
content: ... a little left field, but ...There is a Terasic DE0-Nano-soc that has an ARM cortex A9 and an Altera Cyclone V FPGA. About $100.Runs Linux in the soc. The soc has direct access into the FPGA fabric.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 01:45:08 am
content: Quote from: eugenenine on November 16, 2016, 09:27:12 pmDid not know that, have not played with the beagle, might pick one up now though!

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 01:59:26 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on November 18, 2016, 01:45:08 amIts standard Uboot. There are several distros you can download just like the Pi's, everything from Arch to Kali.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 09:51:07 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on November 18, 2016, 12:11:10 amSome useful gems here:http://www.righto.com/2016/08/pru-tips-understanding-beaglebones.htmlhttp://www.righto.com/2016/09/how-to-run-c-programs-on-beaglebones.htmland chapter 13 of Derek Molloy's book:http://exploringbeaglebone.com/chapter13/

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 10:43:35 am
content: only gave a glance to it.wiring (if one likes it)asmc.nice, have yet to see if and how i can dynamically change the program on the PRU.. being arm cores they can just excecute code from ram correct?i keep having good vibes about the beaglebone, will read a bit more in the weekendmeanwhile, a guy in my same field (automotive) suggested that i take a good look at the i.mx platform, for obvious reasons.however i haven't found a board like the BBB yet (cheap-ish and easy to get started, seems like i can only tick one of the two boxes)

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 11:05:22 am
content: Olimex Lime @ 33EUR? I have one here running my Logitech music server quite nicely.They also have a SoM version if you want to integrate it.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 11:06:49 am
content: The PRUs are not ARM cores, they are basically fast, simple microcontrollers with their own instruction set. Host communication is by shared memory & interrupt. The shared memory includes their program memory space. You don't have to use a PRU to access the GPIO pins, they can be accessed via the Linux file system:http://www.righto.com/2016/08/the-beaglebones-io-pins-inside-software.html

author: HypervisorX
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 01:11:05 pm
content: One thing I don't think I saw mentioned when scanning through most of the replies is the fact that the BBB has some built in analog to digital converter (ADC) pins.If you want to use an analog sensor with your automation project or have any other reason for ADC, with the raspberry pi you will need to deal with getting some kind of external ADC and interfacing with it from the raspberry pi. The beagle bone black already has 7 12-bit analog to digital converter inputs. I seem to recall the input voltage limit for the BBB ADC is 1.8v so do keep that in mind and plan around that when using it.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 08:57:43 pm
content: Thats one of the reasons why the BBB costs a little more than the Pi. There are some additional features.Another is the battery charge/monitoring if you want to go portable.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 09:40:35 pm
content: If you're unexperienced with linux i'd go for a Raspi3.There are huge amounts of info in the "net".And the community are using "the latest linux kernels".The speed is "ok'ish" , and you should use a Sandisk Extreme Class10 , or smilar card anyway.I'd only go for the BBB if you have need for the PRU's.Network performancewise the Odroid C2 , push & pull 900Mb+ both ways.It's faster (quite a bit), and have double the ram of Raspi, it can use emmc.But Hardkernel/AMlogic haven't even switched to linux Kernel-4 yet for their boards.That's a showstopper for me that they don't support the boards with up2date kernels.I'd get a RasPI/Bingo

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 10:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on November 18, 2016, 09:51:07 amThanks for pointing us in the right direction, nfmax.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 10:46:56 pm
content: The other option no one else mentioned (that I could see) is just buy both. I have close to a dozen now

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 11:42:06 pm
content: Haha, yes, they're not expensive...and that's how the collection begins.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2016, 11:59:38 pm
content: Guess I;m not quite to a dozen yet.Two Pi3'sTwo Pi2'sPi (1)Two Pi0'sBBBBanana Pi

author: Dielectric
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2016, 03:14:08 am
content: I'm really liking the Chip for stuff that doesn't need a lot of I/O:https://getchip.com/pages/chipThere is some native GPIO but it gets sucked up if you put a daughterboard (HDMI, VGA, LCD, etc) on; a few more are available via an I2C expander. Built-in Li+ battery charging, WiFi, and BT but no ethernet. The USB host port is severely power limited, I can't run my combo trackball/keyboard on it for instance. It's only $9, so not a huge commitment.For a tester, I'd go for a BBB every time. Better I/O and analog, and the Bonescript lets you do a lot as long as it's not super fast or realtime. PRUs are a black art to some extent but they're cool. Pick up Derek Malloy's book, it's pretty handy.RPi makes me nervous using an SD Card for the OS. BBB has eMMC, Chip has some kind of managed NAND, both technologies are more robust than SD.I have two Chips and one BBB, zero RPis. The BBB is for an actual revenue project. The Chips are here because I couldn't resist a $9 linux card so now I'm looking for a project. Maybe an Echo clone for one, the other I've been fooling around with Pico-8.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2016, 02:11:53 pm
content: On the BBB, if you are considering bonescript you should look at Octalbonescript first, as it is cleaner, faster, and better maintained. For simple, flow-based programming, take a look at Node-RED which has support for both RPi and BBB GPIO. Disclaimer: I am the original author of the BBB GPIO and analogue input support in Node-RED.