Lecroy WavePro 950 mini teardown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 10:02:48 pm
content: Having recently bought a WavePro 950 I thought I would share a quick tear-down.The WavePro series was produced by LeCroy around the turn of the century and was the successor to the LC series, itself the successor to the venerable 93xx 'scopes as taken apart by Dave all the way back in EEVBlog #217There were 4 'scopes in the family - initially the range consisted of the 960, 950 and 940, the 954 was added later with features somewhere between the 940 and 950. The bandwidth and maximum sampling rate panned out as followsModelBandwidthChannelsSample RateAcquisition memoryWavePro 9602Ghz44Gs/s(4ch)/8Gs/s(2ch)/16Gs/s(1ch)Standard 1 Mpts Optional 4-64 Mpts (total across 4 ch)WavePro 9501Ghz44Gs/s(4ch)/8Gs/s(2ch)/16Gs/s(1ch)Standard 1 Mpts Optional 4-32 Mpts (total across 4 ch)WavePro 9541Ghz44Gs/s(4ch)/8Gs/s(2ch)Standard 1 Mpts Optional 4 Mpts (total across 4 ch)WavePro 940500Mhz44Gs/s(4ch)/8Gs/s(2ch)Standard 500 kpts Optional 2-16 Mpts (total across 4 ch)Data sheets for the960,950 and 940and the954can be found online.Apart from the data sheet and (thankfully) a user manual there isn't actually a lot of info out there on these 'scopes, nor even very much on the mailing list.They were built by Iwatsu in Japan and share much with the WaveRunner series, also built by Iwatsu. Forum memberWuerstchenhundposted excellent reviews of both theLT224and theLT264. His reviews/tear-downs are much more detailed than this one will be and they are worth a read as he provides background information including some details for the WavePro series.The 'scope's hardware was based on a PowerPC 603e CPU running approximately 100MHz with VxWorks based firmware.I bought the 'scope on ebay, initially it had been listed at just shy of £1k but was withdrawn and auctioned as a "for parts" item owing to "noisy traces".The first few pictures are from the auction, click on the photo for a larger version.Generally tidy although the bottom of the case has several scratches and damage to the feet. You can see from the second shot that the tracesarequite noisy but Dave explains inEEVBlog #601(plus the follow-upEEVBlog #610) why digital oscilloscopes have a tendency toappearmore noisy than analogue 'scopes and why high bandwidth DSOs in particular suffer from this problem.I had a hunch that there wasn't actually anything wrong with the 'scope so was fairly pleased to pick it up at about half the seller's original price.So, got it home and booted it up.Sure enough once I had watched Dave's videos again my hunch proved correct - kicking in the 200MHz BWL and setting the acquisition length to a more reasonable 10k points reduced the apparent noise considerably. I like the large 10" LCD that these 'scopes have, although the resolution is slightly limited at 640x480.Having a new toy means taking it apart, obviously - actually I needed to as someone had attached a huge security anchor to the 'scope - you can just see it in the last of the vendor's photos. I would quite like to remove it as it is huge, butt ugly and I don't especially need it but I wasn't sure whether it had been superglued to the side of the case or bolted through it so I needed to get the case off anyway.That is actually trickier than it looks. The first thing to do is remove the back "feet" - the rubber bungs hide the screws. I must replace the cover on the PC card slot - this could be used for a PC card hard disk, or CF card plus adapter for storage but I don't have the software option installed to make it work -bummer!Having removed the back legs it is necessary to remove the three screws securing the bezel at its base and then remove the bezel revealing a further seven screws (three across the top and two on each side) holding the top cover in place.Having removed the top cover we now have access to the CPU card - which is actually much smaller than I thought it was going to be - it is worth pointing out at this point that these things are big and built like the proverbial brick dunny.We can also see the fans.......two of them in fact, the larger is, well, enormous. Even the smaller is substantial and they are not especially quiet - I measured about 56dB SPL at 0.5m from the 'scope (ambient noise about 35dB SPL). The fan note is not too irritating but neither is it quiet, my 9354 (admittedly I swapped the fan on that one) registers 46 dB at 0.5m.Unfortunately I can't see what the actual fan manufacturer or part numbers are without removing the fans which requires more dismantling. So we can look at the CPU card which is an Iwatsu CPU603e (bit of a clue there as to the processor architecture).The CPU can take up to 512MB of PC-100 or PC133 SDRAM, I seem to have 128MB of PC-100 memory; I'm not sure if there is any benefit to increasing this.Interestingly I found the older version of the CPU card on sale on ebay, thought I would include the photo for comparison.Side views. I didn't strip the chassis down far enough to get the fans or PSU out.So, having had a look at the CPU let's flip the 'scope over and examine the business end of things. With the bottom cover off we can see the acquisition board - this side doesn't look all that exciting so the next step is to remove the screening - we need to do that to get the board out in any case.One of the input channels in detail.Having got the screening off we can now remove the six screws holding the card in place, the ribbon cables connecting the acquisition card to the CPU and the external clock coax and finally swing it up to take a look at the board properly. This is a large PCB which occupies almost all of the base of the 'scope - approx 12" x 15".The ADC's have some serious heat sinks attached. However I was very surprised to find that the airflow is not actually aimed at these heatsinks first. Air is directed through the square cut out holes over the front end circuits first and then backwards towards the ADC heatsinks in the centre of the board by channels formed by the front end screening.The acquisition board has an Altera EPF10k50 PLD for glue logic/controlFinally some more details of the front end modules, external trigger and CAL output.One thing which does surprise me is the number of trimmers in the input circuit, I expected that the adjustment on the input would be entirely electronic.I hope everyone enjoyed the photos. It looks like I'm stuck with the security thing BTW. It is glued to the side of the case, probably with industrial cyanoacrylate. I might be able to remove the glue with some acetone but I would probably remove the paint along with it and make much more of a mess than just leaving it there. I broke off all the superficial plastic figuring out how it was attached which makes it less obtrusive so I'll probably just leave it.Overall I'm pleased with the purchase. It's a lot of oscilloscope for the price. I considered buying a new 'scope but could not really justify the cost given that I would need something which is well out of the "bargain basement" of modern DSOs and I really can't justify the cost for hobby use.Time to get a network port on the bench and hope that the 'scope's Ethernet card works

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 10:10:53 pm
content: Just wondering: are the input BNC bolted to the frame or not? In the Lecroy LW420 I used to own they where not and the previous owner had not been very carefull so there was some damage to the board.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 10:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 22, 2017, 10:10:53 pmThe BNCs aren't bolted to the chassis per se - just to a metal strip which you can see I remove just before removing the screening from the bottom of the acquisition board.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 10:59:02 pm
content: Good score, and thanks for the picsI was looking at this too - price was very tempting and I didn't believe the "noisy traces" thing either. Decided in the end that I had enough test gear and didn't bid - happy to see that a hobbyist got it rather than some poxy test gear dealer!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 10:47:38 am
content: Nice review and great picturesI saw the scope on ebay, and like you thought that the noise "problem" is likely just user error, and while I was tempted to bid I decided to let this one go as I already have too much stuff to move for my personal BREXITQuote from: grumpydoc on July 22, 2017, 10:02:48 pmCareful, this is not from a WavePro 900. This is the CPU board of a WaveRunner1 LT. The main difference is in the memory subsystem (EDO/FPM on the WR1, SDRAM on the WR2LT/WP900).

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 11:26:19 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 25, 2017, 10:47:38 amIndeed.The WavePro has the "-2" version of the board and is marked S-K3775 on the right of the board (as pictured above) rather than S-K3740. I wonder whether the older version would actually run the WavePro firmware though given that my CPU card only has 128M of RAM and I think that the older card will take that much.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 11:30:21 am
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on July 25, 2017, 11:26:19 amBoth boards run different firmware and the older board is unlikely to correctly identify the WP900's acquisition system.Also, the older board can take two 64MB EDO or FPM memory modules while the newer board in your WavePro can use a single SDRAM module up to 512MB. Considering that a single 512MB PC133 SDRAM module is much easier to get than FPM/EDO (and especially the 64MB modules were pretty rare) I'm not sure putting the old board in a WavePro would make much sense, besides the fact that especially FPM memory is dog slow compared to SDRAM.However, if memory serves me right you can overclock the CPU if you find the resistor pads for the multiplikator. The PPC603e was pretty OC friendly, 100MHz or maybe even 120/133Mhz should be doable. This would at leats lead to a direct performance gain, i.e. higher waveform rates and faster math/FFT.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 12:04:47 pm
content: Thanks for the teardown. I miss my 2 LeCroys already (gone only a few weeks), and I've had them most my (working) life. Maybe one day again.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 12:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 25, 2017, 11:30:21 amIf it can run the WavePro firmware it should be able to talk to to a WavePro acquisition card.QuoteI don't think you'd want to do it at all - unless it was a short term thing to test an acquisition board or the only option to replace a non-functional CPU was the older card.QuoteDo you know what clock speed the WavePro CPU was running?Is it at all worth increasing the RAM on the board - I'm sure that I can find a larger PC-100 DIMM kicking around.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 01:26:44 pm
content: Quote from: grumpydoc on July 25, 2017, 12:37:43 pmAll three Series (WR1LT, WR2LT, WP900) are based on the same software (VxWorks), however the individual firmware images between each of them are different.In addition, if I remember right the older board also has a smaller flash memory which is too small for the WP900 firmware.QuoteIIRC 96Mhz.133Mhz should be doable without additional cooling.QuoteIt can increase performance if you run some of the advanced applications (i.e. PMA).

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2017, 01:59:39 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on July 25, 2017, 01:26:44 pmThat would very effectively prevent you loading the WavePro firmware!QuoteHmmm, maybe one day.....QuoteNo, don't have any sexy options. Extended Math and the basic jitter analysis is all.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2017, 07:11:36 pm
content: Interesting that frontend is very similar to DDA-125/LC684DXLI am replacing a few of these failed CP Clare RF relays in a 684 at the moment.LeoLC684:WP950:

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2017, 09:01:17 pm
content: Stumbled on this while trying to repair a DDA-260 aka Wavepro 960. So this is helping me, thanks!

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2017, 06:56:50 pm
content: Repaired the broken channel on my unit, the relay was cooked. Easy enough to probe with a DMM: measured the coil resistance, all of them 180 ohm or so, except for serveal hundred K if I'm not mistaken for the rotten apple.Leo Bodnar was kind enough to point me in the right direction and provided pointers for a replacement part. Got a slightly different one from the one he suggested: got the Coto 9903-05-20. The 9903-05-00 is closer (gull wing iso j-lead) but it was not available. The J-lead also reflowed nicely so I imagine the impact should be close to zero.Soon in an eBay near you (or PM me).

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 06:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on November 08, 2017, 06:56:50 pmOr.. not. The offset rotary is misbehaving. It starts to scroll and then jumps back up (loop... repeat). Any takers on this one? If not, I'll have to crack her open (again) and simply replace it...

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 09:42:53 am
content: So, I replaced the rotary with one from a SDA-6020, worked fine... here. I sold the unit and shipped it, now the customer says the rotary is still eratic. And two others as well (that I probably just missed). Does anyone have any experience with those? Any source to get them new? Any other reason why they might be behaving badly?

author: xemax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 08:42:28 am
content: I found this for the encoders:https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LeCroy_Owners_Group/files/Encoder Info LT WR1 and WR2/Another question:Is the sample memory part of the SDRAM? Or is it separate memory for the options "WavePro M/L/VL/XL"?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2017, 09:53:14 am
content: Quote from: xemax on December 24, 2017, 08:42:28 amIt's on the acquisition board, integrated with the ADC module AFAIK.

author: xemax
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2017, 12:13:01 am
content: I doesn´t found specs for the HAM631 ADC in the WavePro.In the service manual of the LTxxx scope i found this:HAM631 : Hybrid ADC 1 GS/s with 4Mb memoryThe HAM631 in the WavePro must have 4 GS/s with unknown memory.The sample memory options for WavePro 950 are:1Ch2Ch3-4ChStandard1M500k250kWavePro M4M2M1MWavePro L16M8M4MWavePro VL32M16M8MIf i activate the WavePro L option do i have more sample memory?

author: analogRF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 04:36:41 am
content: grumpydoc, did you ever try overclocking the cpu? or did you at least find out how to? I would like to do it on my WavePro 960 which i think uses the same cpu board as your 950

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 04:49:34 am
content: Very nice teardown, but we wish more hi-res photos. Never enough seeing some nicely engineered PCBA's.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 09:23:08 pm
content: Quote from: analogRF on August 20, 2018, 04:36:41 amDecided it probably wasn't worth it in the end.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2018, 03:47:17 am
content: Does anyone know if LeCroy ever released unlocked firmware for these? I'm looking at a WP 960...

author: Vit G
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2024, 11:04:11 am
content: Hi! what type of LCD display used in this device? My WP960 has a broken tft and needs a replacement. The part number from the Lecroy datasheet doesn’t mean anything, need the manufacturer part number that is printed on the display itself (on my tft no label unfortunately). maybe this is some kind of model from NEC? I think 940-960 have the same displays