Manage shipping worldwide - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2023, 12:09:49 pm
content: Hello,for us in Jordan, customs is a real pain. it could cost a lot and require annoying stuff which will for sure take from net profit.thus, I found a way to manage my product shipping and handling without these products coming to me... which is to use NextSmartShip company (or anything similar).it goes like this: I contact PCBway to make say 100 boards (my product is just a small board) and put them in the usual bag they deliver boards from, then tell them to ship to Nextsmartship address dedicated to me. then i will see the quantity becoming 100 in my nextsmartship dashboard. After that whenever anyone makes an order i just manually ship it from nextsmartship dashboard.anyone did similar thing?here are some points which concern me:1- what if I need to test the products before considering them ready? like if there are some faulty units. I assume pcbway or the likes of it can do some testing if provided with instructions??2- what if the product needs MCU programming or similar manual preparation. I see Digikey offer programming feature which can be used but also one should guarantee the pcb house to be able to do it. please state your experience in this. also, if i want them to insert the board in enclosure and tighten it...etc.I had an idea to solve it: to hire someone inside China to do such stuff for a reasonable fee. like sending him the boards from pcb manufacturer and assembler, then he does the programming or putting the product together...etc. then he does testing with provided test rig or so... THEN he ships the products to nextsmartship to be 100% ready to be shipped.looking forward to your opinions.

author: Georgy.Moshkin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2023, 01:17:55 am
content: Since nobody answered yet, I share some thoughts regarding your questionsQuote from: VEGETA on June 04, 2023, 12:09:49 pmHave you considered 7-day trip to China? Two-way flight ticket + 7 days x 400 CNY hotel + other expenses. It may be cheaper than "reasonable fee".I think, it's even possible to order something and receive in a less than a week using SF Express, shipped to your hotel address. Or negotiate with fulfillment company if you can visit their storage and get your product ready for the client.Idea 2 - Learn how to work with customs in Jordan, you have a potential to solve it. Consider different point of view, where problem is in your product and not in custom fees. In other words, your product may be not profitable enough.Idea 3 - Try to minimize number of operations and entities involved. E.g., maybe fulfilment company is able to do some of this testing. Why it should be a different person? Explain operations needs to be made in simple terms, something like "need to plug each device X in USB port and press a button on notebook program Y" and provide a simple photo. Sometimes very smart people got scared away by something they never learnt, you can avoid this by pretending operation is simple, and making it simple too of course.Quote from: VEGETA on June 04, 2023, 12:09:49 pmFor 100pcs product, providing instant refund for failed unit is probably cheaper (no return needed, just give people their money back). Try to put more effort in making it more reliable from manufacturing point of view. Maybe only consider this if something starting to sell very well and you need to optimize your process before you run out of stock.Quote from: VEGETA on June 04, 2023, 12:09:49 pmProbably too expensive, and SMT assembly company needs to get your chip from Digikey(?). I'm not sure what kind of MCU you are using, on STMs you can flash chips using internal bootloader, this operation may be combined with testing person from your first "1-" question. You can even make a small USB-powered flasher device with two LEDS: red - power/not flashed , green - device already flashed. Some person plugs it in dedicated port of your product and waits LED to become green.You may consider shipping unassembled product, e.g. a DIY kit: well packed enclosure, screws and PCB.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2023, 05:33:29 am
content: QuoteI considered this but thought it will be tiring and won't be available always since I have a full time job. by reasonable fee I meant something like paying an engineer an hourly fee to grab the boards, program them, assemble, etc.. then ship them to warehousing company. he could complete the job in 3-5 hours at max if not less.QuoteOur customs are notorious for such stuff, or for anything. It can be done easily through a broker but the fees will be affecting me. Plus, they tend to not believe inquiries and bills from Chinese companies (PCB houses here) and use their own estimation. Paperwork itself costs some, opening an operation for customs costs quite some money...etc.Thus, if I could avoid all that it would be better.Quotekindly mention your suggested fulfilment companies.I believe such tasks can be done by PCB manufacturer, PCBway does mention such service but what I am not confident about is how to program the MCU if it exists.Quotemy current upcoming product should never have any failed unit, I did what you said and made it very good using genuine good ICs. but I imagine if the product is somewhat more complicated and needs programming and so on.. it would be better to test first.QuoteI am still didn't design a product requiring mcu but plan to in future. my go-to mcu is PIC and I have PICkit3.this flasher device, should it be connected to laptop or something? i am not really familiar with how such stuff is done.once possible solution I found is for me to ensure using digikey programming service (can be found on others probably) by the pcb fab... or buy from manufacturer directly and ship it already programmed by manufacturer to pcb house. and if none of these are available then i can just order the mcu alone, pay whatever i got to pay, then program all of them and send them to pcb house. therefore programming services are nice if found.i hope someone makes youtube detailed video about all this one day

author: Georgy.Moshkin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2023, 07:36:29 am
content: Quote from: VEGETA on June 06, 2023, 05:33:29 amYour idea about contacting PCB fab makes more sense. Need some people who get used to assembly line type of work.5 hours * 60 minutes = 300 minutes.300 minutes / 100 devices = 3 minute per device.Maybe a little too optimistic.. hourly rate probably will be high. Unless it is some young hobbyist making it for fun. I may be very wrong about this, just an opinion.Quote from: VEGETA on June 06, 2023, 05:33:29 amIf MCU have USART factory bootloader, then you can flash one MCU using another through serial connection.When I worked with some PICs, I was pretty disappointed that there was no factory bootloader, at least I haven't found any in reference manual.You already have a good idea of your production, divide your plan to actionable steps and start act on each of them. You can post messages that you search for a person for enclosure assembly / electronics testing, email PCB assembly shop and ask about prices for flashing, etc. If you go with PIC, then you can arrange debug connector for PICkit connection, etc.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2023, 08:21:09 am
content: Quoteit was just a number out of my head, nothing real. when it comes to this then I can weigh in the cost of this vs getting the boards myself.i will at some point try to get one small batch delivered to me, go through all procedures, etc.. just to see the complete process and its cost.Quotei don't know any of this.at some point i really like raspberry pi pico MCU RP2040 and the way it gets programmed. the programmer\user can hold the button, then plug the board to his pc using usb. after that he can put the firmware there. something like this is easy but not for all mcus. I never programmed anything but PIC besides arduino stuff.Quotefor my latest product, no mcu needed just a simple 18650 board which is tiny and it will be inside sega dreamcast as final application. pcbway just manufactures and sends it to fulfilment company. then I will make some test jig if i deem it necessary.