Anyone know this book "Fast Analytical Techniques for Electrical..... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 08:16:39 pm
content: While looking into impedance matching networks, I came across Extra Element analysis and then this textbook, Fast Analytical Techniques for Electrical and Electronic CircuitsQuoteI want some more advanced textbooks, for bigger circuits, besides just 1-2 stages. I like the sound of "Vorpérian describes remarkable alternative techniques to solve complicated linear circuits in symbolic form and obtain meaningful analytical answers for any transfer function or impedance."Anyone familiar with this book or others like it ? It's expensive new, I'm happy to buy old old textbooks as long as they are in good shape and the material is still used.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 09:54:11 pm
content: With modern computers able to do the drudgery fast enough (spit out symbolic solutions to arbitrary circuits) I'm not sure it would be worth your time/money.

author: SuperFungus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 02:51:25 pm
content: I've poked at this book on and off for years, but in full honesty I've never fully integrated the techniques into my process. It's very interesting in my opinion, I just haven't had enough consistent analog work to practice on to make the techniques fully sick for a long time.The advertised advantage of things like NEET over just throwing your circuit at a simulator or CAS is that it should produce results which are more interpretable by humans. If that human intuition leads to useful understanding that generates topology changes or awareness of which parts of the circuit are most performance sensitive etc that would otherwise be opaque it could be well worth the effort.You should be aware that the author has a series of videos on YT based on the first chapters of this book, which might be a good way to assess if you are interested enough to purchase it.

author: slugrustle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 05:16:36 pm
content: Thanks for the notice of this text! It's available from various sellers on abebooks.com for $87, ends up about $95 with tax and shipping inside the U.S.I don't know this text exactly, but we did study Vorperian's average switch model to derive the transfer functions of power converters when I took a power electronics course in grad school circa 2012.EDIT: The fact that the techniques in the text can solve for impedances and that Middlebrook was involved in their development is a big win. I had to analyze the Middlebrook Stability Criterion when designing a filter at the input of a flyback converter at work. In order to get the flyback converter input impedance, I ended up pulling a state space model from someone's master's thesis and wrangling it in Octave. Something tells me that the method in Vorperian's text might have lent itself to more understanding vs. plug and chug.P.S. Middlebrook Stability Criterion sounds like the name of a mutual fund, but it actually has to do with the impact of input filter impedance on switching converter stability.

author: jkostb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 05:58:53 pm
content: HI,I own a copy of this book. Vatche Vorperian teaches in this book how to use the Extra element theorem from Prof Middlebrook. As you probably know Prof. Middlebrook is the godfather of design oriented analysis. It is a complete different way of designing/analyzing circuits. Actually when I studied electronics at university we only learned how to analyze circuits with techniques which are not very suitable for large large analog circuits with feedback loops. Writing the math equations becomes very fast unmanagable. My first introduction to design oriented analysis was with fast analytical techniques, and it opened a whole toolbox for designing analog circuits. I highly recommend if you like analyzing/designing analog circuits, feedback loops or switching power supplies. Book is advanced and contain a lot of math which you have go through to understand topic fully. If you like design oriented analysis, have also a look athttps://www.venableinstruments.com/blog/dr-middlebrook.You will find on this website video lectures of professor Middlebrook.It is a pitty that professor MIddlebrook passed away! He was brilliant.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 03:47:01 pm
content: OK thanks, no I'm not familiar with these techniques, or all the stuff before it. But I can see just from a circuit like an input filter, BJT amp, output filter, with only some BJT parasitic's added, and none for RLC part's, already it turns into a mess of higher order s-polynomials, and heavily mixed and blended constants. And so far it's a lot of work to infer much from them.I know physics and EE are full of approximations, and I should use them more, or see what is commonly done. IDK at what point people stop trying to calculate stuff on paper and go to a simulator.I'll have a look at those video's, see if I need to learn any new math.I should get some old RF design textbooks, up to FM is fine. And some PSU design textbook. But real textbooks, with derivations and examples and problems.Any recommendations ?I have 1 Control theory book, but I'm learning more basic stuff still, so I haven't touched it yet.I have another nice book all on S-domain circuit analysis, there's lots more to learn in that, but it doesn't get much into multi-stage circuits, like a RX or TX circuit.Here's 1 thing IDK really how to find, the input impedance at 1 port, of a differential pair mixer. I can find it if I short 1 input, and only have a basic load. And I might have tried superposition to get another big messy equation.In the end I just used what it is with the other input shorted. IDK, I should drop all the reactive parts and see what I'd get then with superpostion. Some time-varying input resistance.I learned some basic's of Fourier series and transforms, I probably should be using them for some of this stuff.

author: jkostb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2023, 06:14:30 pm
content: If you are interested in analog circuit design (transistor amplifiers, current mirrors etc) , definite resources are books from Prof Razavi Behzad (CMOS circuit design, microelectronics etc). Here you learn the basics and how to use transistor models. You can apply the design oriented analysis techniques directly to this area. If you master these techniques, then you can gradually move into RF analog design.For power supply design: Have a look at fundamentals of switching power supply design (Robert Erickson). This is a great book covering switching power suplies. Again you can apply EET, design oriented analysis to theory. For learning power supply design you need to master a lot more topics. For example design of magnetics, control loop design etc. It takes some time and learning before someone is at senior level.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 07:05:21 am
content: Yeah I watch some of Prof Razavi Behzad lectures on utube, good teacher. I saw 1 of his books, but it was expensive, I should look for some older copies. Same for the above Prof's book.I ordered a detailed textbook on motors, alsoRF Circuit Design: Theory and Applications by Ludwig, Reinhold.... and Operational Amplifiers and Linear Integrated Circuits by Coughlin, Robert....Even if I don't dig into all of the books I own, including loads of pdf's, it nice to have them their.

author: Tation
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2023, 08:58:38 am
content: Own Vorperian's book and found it useless. The "fast" method implies the calculation of tons of impedances/transfer functions on tons of modified versions of the circuit. Each individual calculation is easy, but such tons of easy calculations outweighs the classical calculation method.After such tons of calculations, the partial results are non-trivially combined to obtain the desired result. It's illustrative of the uselessness of the method than one example in the book, when computing the frequency response of a single transistor amplifier, after tons of pages of calculations, reaches a rational polynomial expression (6 degree if I remember correctly) and then the author states that the poles can be easily (and numerically) obtained from the expression using a computer math program, so you end up needing a computer to solve the circuit and don't have any insight about the parts of the circuit affecting bandwidth, as your solution is numerical.

author: slugrustle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 05:16:36 pm
content: Quote from: Tation on November 16, 2023, 08:58:38 amFirst, thanks for adding another perspective here. I just want to clarify: Was the author asking you to use a numerical root solver? Or was he suggesting the use of a computer algebra system to factor the polynomial in the denominator to find the poles in terms of the various coefficients / component values / etc. from the circuit? I know there's not a closed form solution to a 6th order polynomial, but if it happens to factor nicely, that could still lend to easy pole identification and retain its ability to provide insight.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2023, 05:51:55 pm
content: Maxima (and the GUI version wxMaxima) will do symbolic solutions of circuits:https://www.guitarscience.net/papers/maxima.pdf