Best Circuit Design Software - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: thakidd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 08:42:40 am
content: Hey EEV Forum!I am wondering what good circuit design applications are out there. I have a list of criteria I would like to meet...the closer to first one, the better.1) I prefer open source2) If open source fails, I hope to find an application that does not cost over $3003) Anything commercially available over $300 :-(Definition of AppThe application I seek will allow me to easily draw schematics.Hopefully has a knowledge of mainstream parts enabling me to drag and drop components into the schematic.I am most interested in my computer testing my schematic design programmatically to discover design flaws.It does not have to create circuit board layout files, although this would be a plus.Thx in advance for all of your suggestions.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 09:46:08 am
content: Altium designer will do all of the above but it's to expensive.Proteus is another package which should do all of that. I think is cheaper but I've only used Altium (at work) so I don't know.LTSpice is good for simulation but the schematics often don't look very nice and it doesn't do PCB design.Many people use Eagle for PCB design but its user interface is horrible, it has a steep learning curve and the PCB and schematic have to be done simultaneously; one can't simply draw the schematic, then do the PCB.KiCad is open source and quite good but is just a schematic and PCB program.

author: Feanor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 10:34:46 am
content: I use Circuit Maker 2000 and PSIM for simulations, Ultibum for PCB layout and drawing pretty schematics for reports and reference charts, etc. There are "student versions" of all this stuff around.No software is going to tell you what the design flaws in your circuit are. You have to run a simulation, check the voltages and currents that result, and see if you are getting what you want/expect. If not then get debugging.Check out "Express PCB" as well for free PCB software. You must order your PCB from them though. But in a way this is good to because the whole order process is built into the software which saves messing around trying to get the correct files for your PCB to be fabricated.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 11:34:47 am
content: Express PCB is nice and easy to use, not an advanced program but very useful for simple stuff.

author: bound
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 12:12:39 pm
content: Hi ,Eagle software is nice too .http://www.cadsoft.de/

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 06:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on October 13, 2010, 09:46:08 amNot certain where you got that from, but it's not true. You can draw your schematic and then create your PCB without any issue.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 10:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: TheDirty on October 13, 2010, 06:29:49 pmHow do I do that?Suppose I want to create a PCB from the attached schematic. There doesn't seem to be a command to create a PCB from a board and if I create a blank PCB with the same file name Eagle whines about the PCB and schematic not being consistent. I've spent ages Googleing for an answer but the most common advice is to start again so if you could help, that would be great, thanks.

author: Hideki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 11:55:32 pm
content: File menu -> Switch to Board or click the fifth icon from the left that says Board. Eagle will ask if you want to create a board from the schematic.

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 12:02:14 am
content: Stolen from the Sparkfun tutorial.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 06:50:55 am
content: Thanks, I'll remember that!

author: jahonen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 08:09:17 am
content: Please correct me if I am am wrong, but more difficult problem with Eagle is that if you make changes to the schematic in way how it is usually done in professional environment, i.e. you make substantial changes to the schematic, which has corresponding existing layout (without keeping the layout simultaneously open) and then try to transfer the changes to the layout.More expensive software usually handles those situations quite easily by having the ECO operation (or similar). That works quite well even if changes are really substantial. But with Eagle you must then make corresponding changes to the layout manually. That can be quite tedious if you have several hundred changed pins etc.Regards,Janne

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 08:22:35 am
content: Quote from: thakidd on October 13, 2010, 08:42:40 amI have a video coming up tomorrow that shows off gEDA, an open source EDA package. The other open source one is KiCAD.I also have an extended interview with the developer of gEDA, hopefully out tomorrow also.Dave.

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 09:20:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 14, 2010, 08:22:35 amThatis the one I was trying to remember! I'd seen it in a wiki somewhere as I was adding Kicad, but forgot to bookmark it to check it out later.I'll definitely have to play with it. I'm always ready to try out a new tool.Edit:gEDA linkfor quick reference

author: TheDirty
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 12:35:03 pm
content: Quote from: jahonen on October 14, 2010, 08:09:17 amYes, this is the case. Once you create the PCB you have to have the PCB file open at the same time in order for changes to travel across without getting the two files out of sync.Obviously there is a price difference between Eagle and upper tier design packages. Whether the above is a deal breaker really depends on the environment. There are many smaller businesses that do not have a problem with that requirement.This issue doesn't relate at all to the OP, which 1. can't afford a package that can merge changes and 2. doesn't even really care if it can make PCB's.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 12:48:30 pm
content: dip trace30 free trial and 300 pin free versions available.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2010, 12:50:00 pm
content: http://www.osmondpcb.com/<==mac only freeware

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2010, 06:13:15 pm
content: is gEDA available for windows ? I checked up the website and there seems to be no window version. I'm planning a Linux installation (Ubuntu) sometime but prefer cross platform software

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2010, 06:54:16 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 15, 2010, 06:13:15 pmWhen I was playing with gEDA recently I had a look. Apparently someone did once build a Windows version (of at least some of the apps in the suite) but I think it was pretty old; the prevailing attitude in discussions I read about it was "you Windoze users shouldn't be allowed to use it anyway, use a real operating system" so I gave up researching Windows support and stuck to trying it out on Linux.Unfortunately in the end I found I couldn't get a good HP-GL plot out of it (in traditional Unix fashion it generates Postscript, which you then try running through several different filters to try and get HP-GL but fail miserably) so in the end I went back to EAGLE, since I already had it installed and it drives the plotter nicely.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2010, 07:04:39 pm
content: so are the plot problems under linux as well ?it looks like KiCAD is the way then, to exclude windoze users deliberately when it can be done is a bad idea and for me makes the project look like a game being played by some crackpots that just want to be different, I install my schematic and pcb software on a number of PC's among which my work one so I can work on stuff during my lunch break, so if they think I'm too unworthy to be able to do that then stuff them.I did offer to help translate KiCAD to Italian but have not got much of a reply back, anyone know how to get into this (I know someone on here helped with the spanish side of it). the more people that can use it the more chance of it being developed.

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2010, 08:44:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 15, 2010, 07:04:39 pmYeah -- sorry, I was a bit unclear there I think -- I never did find the elusive Windows version that someone had built once (some people did provide links instead of just speaking of it in hushed tones, but the links seemed to be dead at the time).QuoteThat's pretty much what I figured as well. OK, some people have strong feelings about their software ideologies, that's fine; but I'm in no hurry to spend loads of effort compensating for it, especially if I'm going to be insulted in the process. I'd rather just find something else that does what I want with less of the attitude from the developers, especially since I'm only messing around at this point so "just don't bother" is also an option!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 07:20:30 am
content: well KiCAD is cross platform, so I can use it on windows now, use it at work and when I install linux use it on linux too. I'm not sure if you can put custom parts into a separate folder but I've not looked into it yet. with expresspcb I have my custom parts folder on a portable disk so where ever I go I just plug the disk in and I have my own library without copying parts all over the place as I make them and move around

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 09:18:54 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 15, 2010, 07:04:39 pmI set up a yahoo group about three or four years ago to get together a bunch of people to translate the original french documentation into english. The project was very successful and I feel this contributed to the use of Kicad taking off. Got my name in the credits for my trouble. If you go to the main kicad site you can still see the yahoo group listed even though it no longer exists. I was amoderator for the Kicad developer yahoo group for a while before everything moved over to Launchpad (a Ubuntu developers site/resource athttps://launchpad.net/kicad). If you need any ideas please ask.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:12:31 am
content: well i think I have joined the team on launchpad and I think I've emailed the group asking what I should do to get translating. I think one thing that does KiCAD no justice is having the project spread all over the place: it's own website, launchpad and sourceforge, it does not exactly inspire confidence

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:22:50 am
content: ^^^I agree about the website, the Windoze version download of KiCad took quite a bit of finding.Anyway after downloading 109Mb, I've sucessfully installed it on my Windoze 7 lapdog and it runs quite well.BUT it doesn't feel intuitive and I wanted a tutorial to get me started on KiCad with a simple example design and where is it on the website?And unnecessary error messages kept springing up! Such as something about no schematic file being available before saving it!

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:26:51 am
content: Yes, you have as I've just got a copy of your email. I agree the project needs a bit of tidying up and streamlining.Maybe you could ask Jean-Pierre Charras about this. Problem is they will say that they are spending all their time coding which I suppose is fair enough.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:28:39 am
content: well all they need to do is code in one placewhy the hell paste the thing all over the place ? surely that is wasting time ? it looks like the project has been handed from people to people as different people have headed the project

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:32:00 am
content: Quote from: TheWelly888 on October 16, 2010, 10:22:50 amYou can safely ignore that,just one of It's quirks. There are tutorials on the web. Just google 'Kicad tutorial'.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 10:41:23 am
content: The development effort was originally organised via a yahoo group which was closed down only recently in favour of the Launchpad site.The main developers involved have not changed at all (lead developer is Jean-Pierre Charras). It's just as more people where getting involved the traffic on the yahoo group was becoming unmanageable. The Lauchpad site had more facilities for manageing different branches of the code and keeping track of things. So everyone decided to move there. Things are getting done and thats the main thing, even though it may appear a bit chaotic on the surface.I suppose this is the nature of small open source projects.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 11:02:32 am
content: right, I emailed Jean Pierre and just got a reply saying "we always need translators" and that was it, not very encouraging.@thewelly there is a PDF manual for each application, I've not found any bugs so far but I've hardly scratched the surface

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 11:10:41 am
content: Best thing is join the kicad users group and ask how the translation is carried out. There are a few posts relating to .po and .mo files. I'm sure that the people who have done a similar job will be able to help. I was just involved in the help file translation and not the translation of the menu's etc in the software itself.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2010, 11:34:48 am
content: yea well you'd hope someone that tells you that they always need translators and heads the project to be a bit more proactive in welcoming people on board, translating will not benefit me at all as I'm a native brit but I know that there are a few talented people buried in Italy and so if I helped make the program more accessible to them they may contribute and we would all benefit

author: Bloch
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2010, 11:03:35 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 15, 2010, 07:04:39 pmIf you are looking into this ?I found this folderhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kicad-testing-committers/kicad/testing/files/head:/Documentation/and this filehttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kicad-testing-committers/kicad/testing/annotate/head%3A/Documentation/GUI_Translation_HOWTO.pdfThe best part was this...Quote

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2010, 12:44:38 pm
content: yea I'm in contact with them