Windows 10 Creators Update 1703 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 04:14:40 pm
content: Things have changed at MS. My wife will never forgive them after the key switch. The forced upgrade (at least that's what they call it) has given me a productive boost.To my friends who were let go. I'm glad your not part of this mess because it would end our friendship! To Bill and company for letting go of the reins, a BIG thanks to you all as well.To Satya Narayana Nadella, good luck with the new direction you are taking the company. I hope you figure out who your target users are fast.Sorry for the rant.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 04:17:33 pm
content: Looks like "F9" is an attractive option

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 05:27:01 pm
content: Sorry to hear Joe. I use Veracrypt with 1607 and all is well. WinPE or WinRE don't recognize the Veracrypt bootloader to load 1703 so it falls back on 1607 and prevents the Win10 "upgrade" .I still get periodic fixes for 1607 layered on Veracrypt. I would hope by the expiration of support for 1607, 1703 would have all bugs worked out.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 05:55:06 pm
content: Beyond all the Spyware and Candy Crush game and other useless BS they had in 10, it was at least as stable as my XP box that it replaced. PC was so much faster I was changing how I was implementing some of my designs. Now I am beginning to hate the new PC. The intrusive popups from MS in the middle of doing work. Why? At one time the PC was generating a fair amount of traffic. I figured it was a patch. No, it's all outgoing data. I look in the services and there is a keyboard monitor running, sending my data out. I quick search, yep common knowledge.Last one, I was going to upload some pictures on this site. Plug in the flash key. Nothing. I start looking, all the USB devices are down. The Signal Hound is on a separate PCIe board and even it would not run. Power cycle the PC, again, and now at least the devices are working.Several times and a long time, yea those are understatements. I feel so productive!!!

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 06:05:55 pm
content: Hi Joe.Be prepared for Fall Update on 17th Oct. It will be a big update. I would recommend to create a disk image on the first days of October.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 06:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 07, 2017, 06:05:55 pmWait, what!!! That was a 3.5GBish update they just did. With my connection speed my wife's laptop took a good 24 hour to complete! Really!! How much bigger can it get?? I'm pretty big on backing up data and to be honest, if they brick it with all their BS it may be the better in the long run. I am looking at pricing for 7 64-bit now.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 06:59:10 pm
content: There are a lot of changes. Biggest features added like Mixed Reality, Timeline, Onedrive on Demand

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:26:28 pm
content: I have been using 1703 since whenever Microsoft pushed it. I didn't know about the problems at the time and I don't have the problems now.I have 4 machines running Win 10 (2-Surface Pros, 1-Surface Book and a new I7-7700k desktop) and they all work flawlessly. As far as I'm concerned, Win 10 is the best version ever created. Win 7 was good, Win 10 is better.I'm not the least bit concerned about the October update. It'll work out just fine!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:29:55 pm
content: Until there is an acceptable consumer version of Windows 10, I intend to avoid using it. OEM Windows 7 Pro is around $150. A bargain compared to the hassle of keeping Microsoft at bay with Windows 10.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:40:20 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 07, 2017, 07:26:28 pmThey usually do but I've seen a lot of problems with modest hardware. Last week a friend asked me why he couldn't install Creators Update on his new Windows 10 notebook. After checking his notebook specs I found that he owns a cloudbook (32GB eMMC and 2GB RAM). I don't understand why a manufacturer sells a notebook that It can't be updated within the same OS.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 07, 2017, 07:40:20 pmAsk instead why a vendor produces a "universal" OS (phones, tablets, workstations) that can't be installed on a lightweight notebook?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:55:16 pm
content: Win10 for me? NEVER. Microsoft can go to hell. I am running Win7 until it isn't possible and am switching to Linux as I can.I think I have spent more time fixing other people's computers for Win10 problems, and avoiding and removing Win10 spyware pushed as updates to Win7 than I have ever spent fixing any other problem on my computer. Win10 is junk.

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 07:58:23 pm
content: Finally Accepted the Creators update on a Production Computer (Used for Stage Projection).Beeg Mistake. It does not like the Geforce GT730 Graphics Card. As soon as you reboot after installing any driver for that graphics card, it shows black screen, with spinning dots. Logging in to teamviewer shows that the machine works fine, it is only the Displays that are dead.Worked until 2AM in the morning busy reloading the computer, reinstalling all different versions of the Driver, and finally got it working.Shut the machine down, took it to the Venue for a wedding, and Black screen again.Eventually found a machine at the Venue that the user kept on telling it not to install updates, so it did not have the creators update. Popped the card into that machine, installed the driver, and the Presentation software, and got it up and running with about 1 hour left to the wedding.I have found a place to download the Anniversary Update, and am downloading that now. I will be reloading that machine, and then doing all I can to kill that beast that is Automatic Updates.Damn U Microsoft!

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 08:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on October 07, 2017, 07:54:58 pmI agree with you mostly but hardware should be prepared for OS lifecycle. I think the problem is that Windows 10 has become a rolling update OS like many linux distro and it will grow in the next years until MS decides that Win10 brand isn't cool anymore.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 08:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 07, 2017, 08:32:55 pmI don't want to be a bad omen bird, but YES!

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 08:54:15 pm
content: I run Windows Server 2016 as my desktop OS, and it doesn't have stupid updates like this, just normal boring updates that previous versions of Windows did. This means an update is not as likely to brick the machine. I strongly suggest it to anybody with an Imagine or MSDN subscription.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 08:55:18 pm
content: I have a working MS Windows 10 machine that drives a lot of my test equipment and I want it to STAY working. I have therefore removed the network drivers.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 09:02:54 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on October 07, 2017, 08:55:18 pm

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 09:39:38 pm
content: You can use programs like spybot anti beacon to stop windows 10 doing an ET and phoning home. With that and a few registry tweaks like turning of the silent app installer you are fairly safe.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 09:48:20 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 07, 2017, 09:39:38 pmAs far as I know, you can't stop WIn10 from spying. Some of the spying is built into the kernel. It has its own built in rootkit.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 09:57:42 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 07, 2017, 09:48:20 pmI think that a lot of outbound network traffic can be blocked through the firewall if privacy is a big issue.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 11:09:13 pm
content: Pretty good video on the MS culture.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 11:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 07, 2017, 07:26:28 pmThat's the part that hurts so much - it is a good OS. Except that they ship all sorts of user data to unknown lands, tend to fiddle with the UI unannounced and prevent users from having real and proper control over their system. Windows was always a bit obtuse in that regards, but now it's intent, instead of an accident. Not to mention that horror show they call the Windows Store that gets feverishly pushed.It's has turned into a system you're allowed to use, rather than it being your system, and we can thank Nadella for that.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 11:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 07, 2017, 09:57:42 pmLightages is right. It's woven into the fabric of Windows, so removing or disabling it is practically impossible. Blocking the network traffic in your firewall isn't really viable either. The telemetry traffic gets mixed in with traffic you do need, they can change servers at will and there are many thousands of domains used.Your best bet is looking for an Enterprise, Education or Server edition. Only those actually allow the disabling of telemetry, simply because Microsoft cannot afford to infuriate those user groups. Normal users are too fragmented and organised to get a say, as most don't know or care, and therefore have to swallow whatever comes their way.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2017, 11:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 07, 2017, 11:06:54 pmWith the wrong telemetry setting, chances are you send your confidential document to Microsoft as part of an error report. Obviously, you don't have any control over how that information is secured along the way or on their servers. That's one conversation I wouldn't want to have with my security officer, and in some industries it can impact a career in serious ways.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 01:41:44 am
content: Speaking as a user of Microsoft operating systems since DOS 6 and Windows 3.1, Windows 10 is not gonna happen here any time soon. The only possible use I see for it in the future is to run a gaming only machine.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:01:10 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 02:11:51 amDo you have any suggestions which aren't illegal?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:10:37 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 02:11:51 amLots of problems here:1. Microsoft tells us that they ship out lots of data. That doesn't make it right, even if it means they get away with it from it from a legal point of view. Of course, as someone pointed out, a lot of the information is buried in a War and Peace sized text, written in legalese, referring to yet other texts. A bit more recently, more insight was given into what is actually shipped back to Microsoft and the picture painted is not comforting. The fact that Microsoft has been shifty and reluctant about the details certainly hasn't helped them make their case.2. No one is forcing you to use Windows 10. Except that support for other version of Windows seems to be intentionally frustrated, and that people have been upgraded against their will. Obviously, support for Windows 7 and 8.1 will eventually be dropped completely. Moving to another OS simply isn't always an option. Microsoft intended to drop support on a previously supported processor generation and only backtracked under threat of legal action. If you want to use Windows 7 on AMD's new chips, or anything newer than Skylake, too bad. It isn't going to happen. You need Windows 10. If that's not forcing, it's so close I have trouble telling the difference.3. Stopping updates is like driving a burglar out of your house by setting it on fire. It's not a viable solution if you care about a secure system.6. Open source is not the same as a guarantee against backdoors. There have been examples in the past where very clever editing of the code made it function very differently, which only someone intimately familiar with the code and system could discover and decipher.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:16:32 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 08, 2017, 03:01:10 amUsing Windows 8.1 seems to be the best solution for now. It's almost as good as Windows 10 under the hood, and is more secure than Windows 7 while also having a longer support period. It seems to get a lot of hate it doesn't quite deserve, so maybe Windows 10 can finally be its saving grace.Another solution would be to get the Enterprise, Education or Server Edition. Those explicitly allow telemetry to be turned down the most. Not off, mind you. There is still communications going on for the sake of updates, which doesn't seem unreasonable and is a lot like previous versions of Windows do it. The Server Edition is freely available, but generally not cheap. The Education Edition is often cheaply available to students, educators, schools and institutions, but generally is only legally available to that group. Enterprise can only be purchased by companies who buy larger quantities at once, so called volume licensing, and is probably the toughest to obtain legally.Finally, there's the Enterprise LTSB Edition, which has the explicit purpose of being a version with the least amount of update ugliness going on. This version is intended for systems that need to be as reliable as possible. One example would be the computers that are used to process information coming from medical devices, like MRI scanners. This seems to be a great version to have, except that it's as hard to get as the Enterprise Edition.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:21:26 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 07, 2017, 07:55:16 pmI am exactly the same boat. Windows 7 is the last version of Windows I'll be using. I would sooner switch to Mac OSX before using Windows 10 (and I absolutely hate Apple).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:42:19 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 03:34:32 amI never knew FTDI chips are ITAR restricted

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:07:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 03:47:27 amDo those state funded researchers then share that technology with all third world countries (or better yet - ALL countries), or do they try to get advantage from the fruits of their labor? I suspect the latter, which is just what ITAR is all about.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:17:39 am
content: I have spent the last few days getting a workstation setup I can accept. I hate windows, 99% of my work is remoting via SSH to Linux servers, and as such I love running i3wm as my desktop environment due to the amount of sheer screen space it provides. But... I also like to play games with friends, and when most of them do not operate under Linux windows is the only option.So, what I have been messing around with is Debian 9 running a KVM guest with a GeForce 1080Ti passed into it. I was running windows 7 in the guest but to make the video card work (nVidia intentionally detect VMs and refuse to load drivers) the system has to UEFI boot, which while I could make W7 boot, it was very unreliable, hanging during the "starting windows" screen about 90% of the time. Windows 10 however just works, so that is the path I used. The idea was to use steam so stream games back to the host, which works pretty damn well, but the latency is a killer in some games.So... my solution is to leverage the nVidia capture API to dump uncompressed frames into a block of shared memory between the host and the guest. This is all still in the proof of concept stage, but it seems plausible, it might even be possible to map the memory straight to a DRI mmaped surface making the entire process zero copy. Here is my gripe with windows now...It took me a few hours to write a proof of concept tool to create a shared memory region and pass it to the VM as virtual hardware.It has taken me a few days to get a bare bones does nothing Windows driver built... it doesn't even do anything yet.Why did it take this long... windows updates, broken system, recovery required, etc, etc, etc....My biggest general windows gripe is the fonts.... If you turn off font smoothing to make small size fixed width fonts more legible (in my opinion), the entire system looks like ass. I never liked font smoothing, I like nice clean hard edges for text and find it much easier to read for long periods of time.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 03:21:14 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 03:34:32 amYour family had enough to send you here to the US for your education. You talk of buying higher end PCs and equipment. We can assume it's not a question of money. It's a difference in upbringing. Personally, if I were hiring people and knew one was at a lessor technical level than another but had higher ethics, I can tell you which one I will extend an offer to. I can always teach the technical side.Interesting video about the Windows 10 tracking.https://youtu.be/wPFbAqICUJo

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:40:56 pm
content: nobody mentioned yet that the last updates for W7 included backports of the W10 spyware!!

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 04:57:44 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 08, 2017, 04:40:56 pmIt's the same for Windows 8 and 8.1. Worse still, these updates are often "re-released", which means that if you uninstalled them, they get pushed again.The upside is that you can easily uninstall these updates, which is completely impossible in Windows 10. The difference is that it is tacked onto the older OSs, while it's woven into the new one. The matter of updates being re-released can be remedied in various ways, like having a task run regularly to check for and uninstall said updates.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:10:53 pm
content: The spyware pushed as updates to Win7 were basically stopped when the free update to Win10 stopped.There were programs that helped kill them. The thing to do is not allow any Win7 updates until you can search them and see if they are more spyware from Win10.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 07:38:46 pm
content: Microsoft doesn't care about it, until they do care. Imagine the joy when one of those universities gets audited. Of course, Microsoft isn't alone. Thanks to the BSA, a lot of parties can require you to allow an audit and they will look not only for their own licenses, but those of others too. So you don't just get slapped around for an illegal Windows key, but also for that copy of Photoshop and Inventor.It's a collection of parties with deep pockets and very experiences legal teams, who have played the same game for years. You won't come out on top.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 08:53:40 pm
content: The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 08:55:38 pm
content: Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10. More specifically, it providing the option to "defer updates", but downloading and installing them anyway. There are a few other options that are given to the user, that are similarly ignored. As I have got older, I dread updates more and more,as they do tend to 'break' things. In the interest of balance...However. The cries of 'spyware', anti-privacy, and general bashing of MS is getting as bad as the bashing of Apple. You are all free to choose what OS you use (unless for work, in which case your IT department worries about security, not you). For every thing I dislike about windows 10 (windows 7 had a similar reaction btw, but was muted because vista was so ghastly) there are many things I do like, but don't really think about because it just works.And that's the point: we expect OS's to be intuitive, responsive, and just do their job - when they do that, we don't notice them. That is why you will find few people "praising" an operating system (unless they are trying to jump on a bandwagon). But features we don't like? we remember.-Edge is now, IMO the fastest 'convenient' browser for windows. Not that it is stellar, just that chrome and firefox have bloated out with heavy memory usage.-Windows defender means we won't have to install bloated and resource-hogging third-party antivirus apps. Again, it isn't ideal, but it does its job just fine.-My PC is as fast, if not slightly faster as it was under windows 7. On 6 year old hardware, I find this hard to believe, but its true. 5 seconds from power button to desktop.-Win10 does have higher hardware requirements than win7, and whilst I disagreed with the big push for windows 10, those who find it terribly slow are probably running hardware that is past its prime.-Windows 10 is as customisable as win7 was, one sometimes has to go through hoops to turn off certain features, but it is doable. Often taking about 15 seconds to google, which is much quicker than writing a forum post about how much you don't like that particular feature. Many of the 'hacks' that were used for win7, are the same for windows 10. (customized searches, explorer, admin rights, themes, shortcuts etc..).As for privacy and personal information. We give away a fair bit of personal information, which is sold on in the 'big data' market. Many seem to think this is illegal and hidden - it really isn't, just read license agreements. I would obviously prefer if my personal information wasn't collected, but ultimately it is still my choice to use windows 10, warts 'n' all. It would be very difficult to live ones life trying to not give away any personal data, but its possible - its the price we pay for modern convenience.And those who have resolutely stuck to windows 7, good for you. It is a fine OS, and almost all applications will still run on it. You use this knowing full well the risks of an OS that is no longer supported, and with a slow decline of available software. I can't see windows 7 use dropping significantly in the next few years.For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from. Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:06:06 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 08, 2017, 07:24:59 pmThere is no need to try and justify your comments to me.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 08, 2017, 08:55:38 pmIf I switch, it would not be to any of the GNU flavors. I play with it from time to time but it's always a nightmare to get anything running and many of the tools that I use the PC for do not support it. Personally, I would rather have MS get out of the data mining business but it seems it may be the only way they can turn a profit now under the new leadership.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:16:12 pm
content: Could go back to XP plus good anti virus and malware programs that way there is only a chance that you get hacked as opposed to the certainty with windows 10 that all your data is grabbed.The way Microsoft is carrying on they will get done over again by the EU.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 08, 2017, 09:15:03 pmYou see, this is my point. You want all the convenience and app support of windows, but also you want their company to have a business model you approve of. The data mining business is booming, and has led to advances in voice/face recognition, and believe it or not, greatly improved financial security. It has its dark sides (with medical records sold to insurance companies) but its not like we don't benefit from it at all. Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data? My point is, you benefit from this.Of course you're free to state your gripes with the software and the company, but if you disagree with a company - why do business with them?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on October 08, 2017, 08:53:40 pmCorrect.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 08, 2017, 09:31:09 pmUmmmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:42:47 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 08, 2017, 08:55:38 pmExcept that you are forced, for reasons already mentioned. Migrating to Linux or Apple isn't always an option. Having a 90% market share means not always leaving people options.Also, calling it bashing is a bit of a lowball tactic. It suggests people haven't looked at the facts and didn't take any care to form an opinion. I think people here at least have been quite careful in their wordings, and nothing discussed here is blatantly untrue or misrepresented.Finally, the fact that other parties harvest and sell your data at every opportunity doesn't excuse Microsoft to do so. Many of those services and companies inherently deal with things online. By its very nature, you can't expect full privacy when online. Also, most of these services are provided to you freely, and you pay with your data. In the case of Windows 10, there is no inherent need to harvest and collect data. This has been artificially woven into the OS to allow Microsoft to jump on the bandwagon. It also is a paid product, which means paying again with your data doesn't sit quite right. Not to mention Microsoft being rather disingenuous about what is harvested and when. Only in the face of legal action, they finally yielded a little bit.An OS that actually sends detailed information about what application you use, what websites you visit and much more on its default settings can easily be called spyware. Any program on your computer that would do half of that would be considered rather dangerous and very unwanted.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:49:44 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 08, 2017, 09:41:36 pmI'm not sure that is enough. There's a fair chance they've been rolled into fresh images by now, as the first non Windows 10 telemetry updates were released years ago. I'm not quite sure, though.Do note it's not just Windows 7, but 8.x too.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:54:37 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 08, 2017, 09:24:42 pmAny day of the week.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 09:58:47 pm
content: See this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:04:34 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 08, 2017, 09:24:42 pmI want no collection and no forced updates. And yes, I would be willing to pay for it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:07:44 pm
content: Why would Windows 10 suddenly be an order of magnitude more expensive than its precursors? That doesn't make much sense.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:10:44 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 08, 2017, 09:58:47 pmI can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:16:22 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 08, 2017, 10:10:44 pmI understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 08, 2017, 10:16:22 pmMost industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2017, 10:54:49 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 08, 2017, 10:30:09 pmI empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 am
content: So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough. I need a better router.Where's that $450 stripped version of Windows 10 I am hearing about???

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 12:30:45 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 09, 2017, 12:23:24 amI am talking about an OS, the philosophy behind it, and the danger to us. I already spoke about going to Linux. WTF is your point?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 01:26:45 am
content: Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228. Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this. Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.Also, I tried blocking port 443 for fun. Have wireshark running now. Funny stuff. Watching the traffic, I feel like I am sticking it to the man.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 01:38:23 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 09, 2017, 01:26:45 amI installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 02:56:02 am
content: Windows 10, version 1703 Diagnostic DataIn my opinion, 90% or more of this is none of their damn business and should not be necessary for "diagnostics" (figuring out why something doesn't work right).The diagnostic related services are one of the first I shut down in any Windows 7 installation. Can they easily be turned off in Windows 10? I'm guessing "No" on the easily part.https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-diagnostic-data

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 03:07:00 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 09, 2017, 01:38:23 am10 running 10?I use VirtualBox to run XP to support my old apps that will not run under 10. I have found one Big plus. I own Office XP and when I run it, it would crash on 10 prior to the 1703. I thought it strange that 10 would not run their own apps. It appears they fixed it.I shut off everything related to the network and just let wireshark sit for a half hour. It's pretty interesting. You can see them trying to send data using the 443 port. The hit the DNS and it all looks fine, then they go back to their site. They keep trying and eventually figure out to try port 80. Then we get a flood (I left 80 open). Then they try to again connect on 443. On and on it goes. Looks like a fair number of addresses if you wanted to try and filter it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 06:10:32 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 09, 2017, 03:07:00 amActually 7 running 10.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 08:03:54 am
content: the real joke is that "professional" software never used to run on windows (the toy o.s.)you used to have to run it on Solaris, Irix or some other unix variant.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 11:41:09 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 amHi JoePerhaps you may find this thread useful.http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30222844-Stop-Windows-10-From-Spying-On-You-36-DNS-Addresses-to-host-file

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 10:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 09, 2017, 11:41:09 amThanks! Not too surprised that others have traveled this same path. It looks like it may be doable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2017, 10:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 09, 2017, 10:21:12 pmJust be aware that Microsoft can change its service addresses on a whim, and that there are reports of Windows 10 circumventing the hosts file altogether. If you block anything, make sure to do it elsewhere in your network.There's another Windows 10 feature I discovered: it circumvents VPNs, unless you've gone through some effort to prevent it to. Worse still, it's not immediately evident this is happening at all. Instead of neatly sending DNS requests over the VPN, like previous versions of Windows do, it sends it out on any and all available network connections available. This is supposedly to ensure the quickest DNS response, but it tends to utterly destroy a lot of the protection granted by the VPN. I don't quite see the gains offsetting the cost.To me, it's a simple nuisance, but some people in less scrupulous political climates might literally get killed over the feature.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 01:01:27 am
content: Perhaps this is monopoly getting too arrogant.We (USA) broke up Standard Oil when it had close to 90% of the market back in 1911 creating 5 smaller oil companies to compete against each other. Again, in the 1980's we broke up AT&T creating 7 baby-bells thereby eliminating the monopoly and again we had competition.Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Tweeter, so on, either approach or exceeded the 90% mark in their respective markets. Sherman Act is there to control monopolies from engaging in anti-competitive behavior or misuse its monopolistic power. It is perhaps time to assess whether it is in the interest of consumers to invoke the Sherman Act. At the very lease, it may bring some humility back to these all-powerful emperors running these tech behemoths.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 01:30:30 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 09, 2017, 10:38:33 pmNo plans to block anything at the PC level. Trying it out right now.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 04:17:20 am
content: Warms my heart to stick it to them... This what happens when you press a few keys on the windows 10 calculator...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 04:28:12 am
content: What is all this stuff from CLOUDFLARENET .... Oops, I guess that one needs to stay.Anyway, I'm just running DD-WRT in a Linksys router. Seems simple enough to telnet in and set it up. I have not been able to get the command window to stick yet. I can save it and tell it to run it at boot. But after a power cycle, telnet in and the iptables are not set correctly. Guessing it is just lack of sleep and something stupid.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 07:40:08 am
content: DD-WRT is VERY old,you should look into LEDA.https://lede-project.org/

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 08:11:57 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 10, 2017, 04:17:20 amUnfortunately for my day to day work I *need* windows. Fortunately I've been virtualizing it since Windows 95, so I've kinda learned to work around stuff where required.On the whole I've always found Windows was *more* reliable under virtualization and (at least in pre-Win8 versions) often snappier. There are a few follow-on advantages to that :- You can completely deny it access to the outside world.- You can easily and frequently snapshot the machine so you can install/test software and roll back with zero consequences.- No issues with Virus/Trojan because of the first 2 points.- Hardware upgrades on a whim with zero driver issues (and consequential WGA headaches if you actually run that stuff).- No issues with updates or the OS trying to do things behind your back.Certainly not for everybody, but for my use case it's a super low maintenance option that has far more advantages than disadvantages. Like I said though, I've been using Linux on the desktop full time since about 1996 with windows in a box (TrelOS it was back then from memory, then Win4Lin, Qemu with the KQEMU proprietary accelerator, and now QEMU/KVM). I played with VirtualBox for a while and I've had a good go at VMWare, but always got better results *for my use case* using the Qemu based stuff.I did spend quite a bit of time watching Windows 10 in a box to see what it spoke to, but I gave up after a while as even with all the published tweaks there was no way to keep it quiet.Fortunately the software I have that will only run on stuff later than 7 will run on 8.1 and I've got a nice trimmed SOE of that which behaves nicely in a VM so I haven't had to use 10 in anger yet. It did seem to get upset and leave a lot of gumph in the event logs when it couldn't phone home, particularly as it could resolve DNS.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 04:39:42 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 10, 2017, 07:40:08 amSwitching to newer is what got me here in the first placeBesides being another "new" spinoff, I saw where they were attempting to make it stable, what benefits does it offer? I was looking to see if I could find some sort of matrix comparing the various flavors. I've been running DD-WRT for some time and it's been rock solid. I really don't do much with it beyond just using it.http://www.zdnet.com/article/dd-wrt-linux-firmware-comes-to-linksys-routers/I forgot to add that if you use WRT, store your iptable scripts in the firewall, not the startup. Lack of sleep. Works fine.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 08:18:14 pm
content: My biggest gripe has been the auto-rebooting. I got Win10 first on my laptop, and noticed that it would even *wake itself out of hibernation* while in my backpack to start applying updates. Actually, it would spin and spin for an hour, then it would fail to hibernate again.As a result, the battery would be totally flat when I powered it on the next day even though it started with 90% the previous day when I'd put it into hibernation.Win10 Enterprise was said to have policy options for disabling this completely ridiculous behavior. I picked up Win10 Enterprise for my desktop PC, set group policy, and figured my days of losing work were over... but not so!It turns out that even in Enterprise, Windows actually ignores its own group policies set to disable auto rebooting. Eventually people found out how to hack the registry to work around this.Thus began a 2 year game of cat and mouse where Microsoft would change the reboot policy behavior and schemes with every major update, breaking the fixes before it. My desktop PC would wake itself at 2am out of hibernation and burn 100% cpu applying updates, then never shut off. Eventually after enoguh corporate customers and important people reminded MS how idiotic they were, the problems lessened.However, I still have to physically remove my laptop battery when it's stored in hibernation or I risk updates ruining it and melting the bottom of my backpack.Other than that, W10 works well for me

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 09:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: marshallh on October 10, 2017, 08:18:14 pmPrecisely this. At work we moved one of our PCs to Win10 before IT adopted it and it was a nightmare - I would say the problem is, as you mentioned, not auto-rebooting but auto powering up/wake up. I also had the same issue with flattened batteries out of nowhere only to find out the damn OS was doing the favor of leaving "All your files are exactly where you left them".Since after IT adopted it and my notebook was "updated", I have noticed an improvement in this BS. Also, since the reboots are mandated by IT after applying updates (even on my previous beloved Win7 laptop), I can't distinguish anymore what is Win10 exclusive.Oh well... Hopefully this gets sorted out by the time I am forced to make a decision.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 11:45:15 pm
content: https://betanews.com/2017/10/09/cortana-skype/

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:20:17 am
content: Makes me want to start a small business just for the sole purpose of being a 100% non-Microsoft shop. Just to prove it can be done.I type this on my W10 laptop as the fan churns away while downloading monthly updates.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 08:38:07 am
content: i type this on my Debian laptop while finding the entire situation hilarious.for the record, i'v been using linux since everybody was raving about that new o.s. called windows2k that had install cd's that could explode in your drive!!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:21:09 am
content: As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited. Similar to their 64-bit version.I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun. I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX. That could have been me.Looking at my spectrum analyzer, they have an API that will work with Ubuntu 14.04 but not a turn key copy of their main software.I have ran OpenOffice and would be willing to use it. Last I looked, they did not have a flavor that supported Project.Any sort of CAD packages I looked at for LINIX were not usable. Again, it has been a few years since I looked at it.If Windows went away, I am sure the tool providers would switch to some flavor of LINUX. Maybe they are waiting to see if one flavor dominates over the others. Anytime I have looked, the tool suppliers are VERY specific about what it would work on and no support. It seemed more like throwing a bone to the academics groups that an all out effort to support a different OS then Windows. Can't say I blame them. Better to support the majority when it comes to business.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:39:12 am
content: PC ran all yesterday with no applications but Wireshark. My second attempt has some impact but eventually they got through. I even saw some data to Inktomi Corp. Maybe the whois database is out of date. Akamai was another that was really bad and I started adding them as well. Even Google and Yahoo seem to have a few hooks. I let the new tables run through the night and nothing new came up.

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:21:09 amNo problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 12:54:28 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:21:09 amLinux lacks of good project management tools. You can download ProjectLibre. It's an old tool that was resurrected this year. Jan 2017 version works fine (Linux and Win). Interface is not pretty but features are ok. (You can open and save ms project files)https://sourceforge.net/projects/projectlibre/I didn't find any good and free web based app to edit ms project files.For an Office Suite, I like LibreOffice better.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 01:00:31 pm
content: Beware: it looks like the cumulative update of October shows the BSOD on some systems after reboot.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 01:10:14 pm
content: Quote from: EdoNork on October 11, 2017, 01:00:31 pmI applied fixes yesterday without any problem

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 01:11:30 pm
content: So you have one of the "other systems".

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 03:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 11, 2017, 08:38:07 amThat's hilarious, except that a lot of the major engineering software packages aren't available on Debian, or any other Linux flavour. Why do you think people like us put up with Microsoft? It's certainly not because they have never considered Linux.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 05:14:39 pm
content: well wine is pretty good,not perfect but not bad.what software are you running?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 05:33:18 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 11, 2017, 05:14:39 pm"Pretty good" isn't going to cut it if it's not supported by the developer. As soon as you start mucking about with Wine, you trade one pain for another.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 pm
content: when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 06:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 pmSure it is. If you use an OS that's supported by the developer - which typically means Windows 7 and beyond - and problem you find is their problem. If you start mucking with Wine, any problem becomes your problem, without guarantee of anything being fixed.There is a reason people pay ridiculous amounts of money for things like FirePro and Quadro cards. In some generations, the hardware is even exactly the same as the consumer cards, but the support is completely different.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: jaromir on October 11, 2017, 12:51:59 pmI looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat. Same old same old. Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu. Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days. But again, I don't follow the GNU trend. I also looked at LabVIEW. It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions. I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature. Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead. I was using Slackware but started with LXI. There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support.I've been using Ubuntu (a few years old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmCurrently, I see two problems with the various Linux flavours. Like you say, Ubuntu really is quite good out of the box. However, as we've established, the support from manufacturers in some areas isn't enough to make it a viable alternative. Professionals generally don't have the luxury of tinkering with things too much.Another problem I see is that things quickly become murky when you can't use the GUI to set or install something. That seems to be a bit more common than it is in Windows. I'm not saying that's Windows always provides a streamlined experience, quite on the contrary, but there generally is some ancient tool available to do what you need to do. If you're not a Linux veteran, getting something done outside of the GUI often boils down to the fervent Googling and trying of what basically are magic spells. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and the how and why generally is rather unclear. To make matters worse: the GUI experience often is quite different from distro to distro, with the same distro even offering several desktop environments. The most consistent experience is the CLI, but that has the aforementioned problem of a very steep learning.I'd really wish Linux would finally become a fully viable alternative to Microsoft and Apple products. For general day to day computer use, browsing and multimedia consumption, I think it's mostly there. Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:38:22 pm
content: The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced. It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run. So no iprange support. The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router. To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask. Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere. Chances are good I would never hit one.Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle. Sort the IPs when I am done. Lookup who owns them. If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file. Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router.I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs. It keeps trying and fails. Non-stop. It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off.Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 11:26:21 pmThat last remark seems to be the unfortunate truth for now, at least when it comes to desktop computing. If you employ a handful of pricey engineers, you don't want them to be experimenting with the software. It just needs to work, or alternatively you need to be able to call someone to make it work right at this moment. Not to mention the liability problems. Just imagine the fallout when calculations turn out to be erroneous. Even if the software isn't at fault, not using a recommended setup will be a pain to explain.The server side of things is obviously another story, as is embedded.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 11:42:09 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 11:38:22 pmThere are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:27:57 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 11, 2017, 11:42:09 pmI thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it. With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask. Narrowed it down to two of them. Another Linksys and an ASUS. Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them. I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid. Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 12, 2017, 12:27:57 amIf you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:26:30 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmIn general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmIn my experience, companies that need to support their software in Linux go where the money (= customers) is. Redhat is used by a good number of large customers for us, while at the same time we need to cater for the broad developers - thus Ubuntu/Mint come into the bandwagon as well. And yes, it is a nightmare if you try to support everything.Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmI started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:32:31 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 amMy last computer project was moving from WHS2011 to FreeNAS. That's pretty much working fine, so next I'm thinking about a pfSense Firewall/Router.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:05:58 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 amUsing the router for a repeater and needed the wireless. I don't have a junk PC that would be good enough.Quote from: rsjsouza on October 12, 2017, 01:26:30 amThat's hardcore.My wife had bought me a book called maximizing security or something like that. I was heavy into Slackware at the time. Countless hours spent reading that book and playing with network security. Now days I am far too lazy and just want to program some scripts for the router and get on with life. Difference is back then I was thinking about hacking from the outside, where now it is flipped and apparently the OS is the concern.Testing my wife's laptop now and all looks good. The only problem I ran into is she has a MS email account and used MS for main search engine. So I had to explain, no more.Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically. Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user. Just a thought. Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

author: technix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:24:33 am
content: I know that this limits my dev kit options, but this is one of the reasons I actively decline to use Windows. Updates are shoved down my throat when I was least expecting it. Windows always seemed to have some kind of updates pending and will reboot when I am not actively sitting in front of it, even when there is an ongoing task like long time datalogging happening. I almost never am able to collect a night worth of data without an update interrupting me. This is not even talking about updates breaking things, forcing reinstallations of some apps. If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.It is just too sad that a few tool vendors adamantly refuse to provide their tools for another operating system, and the open source community failed to catch up in some cases. (I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.) On the operating system end, it is lucky that high quality desktop Linux distributions exist, and Hackintosh is a thing.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:29:37 am
content: QuoteLack of trust. I know the router will block it. Funny, I went to look it up on the MS website too see how it compares ... Oh yea....

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 04:39:30 am
content: I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 05:11:53 am
content: That's what I looked for.https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+EssentialAmazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390You have a link for cheaper?

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:31:39 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmI think there is not much of deal with software companies actively supporting only one or two major distributions - for most of the cases you can run the software on anything other, perhaps with minor setup. Linux world seems to be very scattered and diverse, but those are just colorful covers of the same principle.RH was the "standard" Linux distribution for big companies and universities, that's why Altera supports it. But running it under Ubuntu and Ubuntu-alike distributions is just matter of unpacking the installer and running it manually. I can't remember exact details (it was two years ago), but it took a minute of googling while downloading the installer.As Windows user, I was watching the Linux world for something like 15 years and made transition few years ago, as soon as I was able to locate all Linux tools I need for what I do (and it was no-go route for me before), so I understand your hesitation.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 07:00:28 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 12, 2017, 05:46:29 amOEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 08:47:32 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 12, 2017, 02:18:41 amWhy would you spend hundreds of dollars if excellent free products are available? You need to set things up in both cases and a firewall is one of those cases I think Linux has an edge, especially if a developer tailored the distro specifically to the purpose.Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:16:16 am
content: I think the idea is to get the new version of Windows but without all the extra garbage that Windows 10 is burdened with. That would probably be worth $120 to a lot of people. I wonder how well it would play with games. However, as I said, region locking could be an issue. True or not I don't know, but I've heard of people not being able to get Windows updates because of using a version outside it's intended region.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:27:11 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 12, 2017, 09:17:03 amSorry, I misunderstood. It would be a huge disaster for Microsoft if they'd be caught doing that and the chances of discovery aren't slim with a lot of competent people working with the server versions, so I don't think they'd risk it.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 09:58:06 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 12, 2017, 02:05:58 ammine can do that,i have it downloading addblock lists.https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmwarei would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 11:10:59 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pmUbuntu dropped it's own Unity Desktop and returned to Gnome this year. 18.04 LTS will be very interesting

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 11:55:33 am
content: All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 12, 2017, 11:55:33 amWindows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:22:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 12, 2017, 12:10:49 pmGood to know.I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:33:47 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 12, 2017, 12:22:10 pmBetter or worse is a qualification that depends on a lot of things. However, your comment seemed to imply that the VM was quick thanks to Windows 7, but 8.x or 10 shouldn't perform much worse. In theory Windows 10 should perform better, but in practice that difference is probably minute. Other properties of the OS have a much more profound impact on the experience and should therefore be the deciding factors.Personally, I think Windows 8 strikes a nice balance between the two. It has quite a few of the optimizations of Windows 10, while lacking the nasty new features. If only people could look past the tiles

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:40:32 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 12, 2017, 09:17:03 ami would assume the oposite, there is both big money and politics in corporate espionage.it would be far more subtle than a keybuffer relay though.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:46:52 pm
content: Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 12:51:29 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2017, 12:46:52 pmYou mean the telemetry api, I presume?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:06:10 pm
content: No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:52:27 pm
content: so they know you typed "ls" ?paranoid scum need to be eliminated as terrorists.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 01:57:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2017, 01:06:10 pmThey can call home, as can pretty much everything in 10, but don't if telemetry is disabled. Then it's just the api that's present, but doesn't get called.If it were any other way, it would be world headlines.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:03:53 pm
content: You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-diveAlso for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.As for development tools, read this:https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 12, 2017, 12:22:10 pmMy daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7. 30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad. I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2017, 02:03:53 pm" I suspect many will not want to install .NET core for this reason, which is a shame because .NET core is otherwise cool"Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool. There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code. Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 02:58:34 pm
content: did you read the comments on that link??they also put spyware in visual studio.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 03:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on October 12, 2017, 02:44:33 pmRarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.From a technology standpoint it's pretty good. We were serving up to 15,000 requests/second from 8 front end web machines running about 5 million lines of horribly complex C# written by the lowest bidder talking to hundreds of web services all over the internet and internally (all also running .Net) and SQL Server databases. We also have desktop apps in it as well. Speed and resources are nowhere near the problems with it.The problems are with the tooling, general friction getting simple shit done, privacy, lack of support and licensing costs. Which is why it's heading in the direction of other tech for us.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 04:27:38 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 12, 2017, 09:58:06 amI suspect most modern routers can do pretty much anything but I think you way overestimate the capabilities of the elderly. I know of people still using AOL. I have a friend who's old XP PC finally gave out and we "upgraded" them to Windows 7. Talk about a steep learning curve. I don't think companies realize when their managers/marketing and developers change anything that has been a standard for years, just how it effects this group of people who just expect their PCs to work the same way they have for the last X years. Try explaining to your grandma why MS decided to move all the menus in Word let alone telling them they need to reflash their router.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 04:35:29 pm
content: the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.they want to boot to a command line and type:Quoteand be able to just switch it off when they are done.dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 05:14:21 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 12, 2017, 04:35:29 pmIf you're lucky you may join the ranks soon enough. I'm just saying that having a product that would be easy for the average person to use may do well. I am not aware of a turn key solution today that you can just plug in and forget about it. I doubt the average person will ever attempt to reflash a router even if all the hard work has been done for them already.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 05:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: eugenenine on October 12, 2017, 02:23:26 pmThis morning I created a new VM with Windows 8.1 Pro under linux again to test it and I hated. It was not quick enough like win7 and I don't find a word to describe such UI. That's why I went from Win7 to Win10 in the first place. Programmers should be still asking for forgiveness. I'll leave the previous Win7 VM that I created yesterday. Almost perfect!

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:23:48 pm
content: lolhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/outlook_smime_bug/same old excuse - whenever they get caught it was a "bug"yes, in some way it was...... just not the way they meant!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 06:56:38 pm
content: That’s just total shit. How did they fuck it up that bad?

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 07:34:03 pm
content: that's my point, the fuckup was getting caught!!

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 12, 2017, 03:44:55 pmGranted its been a few years since I was in that role but Windows core OS patches rarely broke compatibility but .NET patches did all the time, the devs were always having to change code after a .net patch.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 07:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 12, 2017, 04:35:29 pmThats why I run Slackware.Wait, does that make me elderly?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 07:54:47 pm
content: CentOS here. I did a bit of slack in the past. Anyone remember Bob?Quote from: stj on October 12, 2017, 06:23:48 pmI worked for a defence contractor with UK CESG spooks dealing with the network side of things. They’d be pissed about this too. I think it was a genuine fuck up. The thing you have to worry about is the other actors who did notice it but chose not to disclose it or sold it on the darknet markets.Then again perhaps that’s why they’re all still using Lotus NotesQuote from: eugenenine on October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 pmThere was only one big breaking change that I remember in the last 15 years which required a code change and that was because the HashTable algorithm was flawed and had an O(N^2) complexity which meant you could DoS attack the server with a crafted form post. If they had to change code lots then the dev team was shit

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2017, 08:01:18 pm
content: I moved into ITrisk in 2012 so it would have been before that. Was multiple dev teams at different companies prior, they all hated when we did .net patches because they had to change things.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 11:36:29 am
content: more fun!https://thehackernews.com/2017/10/ms-office-dde-malware.html

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 12:10:16 pm
content: Oh FFS another one!

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 01:18:28 pm
content: What I would like to find is a tool Win10 which can wrap around my network hardware driver. Let win10 think I don't have any network devices at all. And, have a modified Firefox, and maybe 1 or 2 other remote network viewing tools with their own private internal link directly to those wrapped network drivers with a third party separate network protocol driver not made by M$. I don't mind loosing all Win10 network functionality for privacy just to allow me to use my EDA tools in private uninterrupted leisure.The added benefit will also be adobe acrobat not blabbing to adobe behind my back as well as many other unnecessary network crap.I am well aware of how many software items will no longer function as today they require online access.But, except for exploits within firefox, nothing else should be able to sen or get anything online.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 01:31:20 pm
content: Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 01:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 14, 2017, 01:31:20 pmI wont get the gaming performance of my 1080ti then.The idea is to F--- M$ knowledge of any connected networks right down to the kernel level. Then, only for the Win apps I want, allow them to use my private software network driver.I need a solution I can distribute and install on any existing setup Win10 machine out there.It needs to be a solution that there is nothing M$ can work around or do anything about.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 02:16:51 pm
content: has anybody tried just patching all the i.p. addresses to 127.0.0.1 in the windows system??

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 03:56:12 pm
content: Doesn't work. It uses it's own DNS resolution system which is in the guise of "malware prevention" to stop DNS hijackers from preventing windows updates and windows defender updates.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 04:07:04 pm
content: I've continued running the router. The only change was I enabled the known CDNs for now. I thought originally it was the tables were too large and complex for the old router, causing some speed problems. It appears this was not the case and it was caused from not using the CDNs.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 04:10:11 pm
content: I've seen estimates that Microsoft may have as many as half a million internet connections available to use. It seems like trying to stop their spying by blockading would be useless.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 04:17:52 pm
content: maybe you can block port numbers instead?is m$ using 80/81 or something else?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 04:31:39 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 14, 2017, 04:17:52 pmWTF would they use 81 for?If they used a unique port, it'd just be blocked, and.. they'd move to using a port you can't arbitrarily block.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 04:55:01 pm
content: I had started out blocking ports. They are fine with only these open.Quote from: joeqsmith on October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 amI have had Wireshark running and so far nothing new has shown up in the last few days. For sure you would not want to block individual IPs. As you can see, I was going for entire ranges (and then some). My concern is with Microsoft using Akamai's CDM services rather than missing another range owned by Microsoft. All I can do is monitor it at this point and see if something changes.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 05:30:14 pm
content: I guess shutting down TCPIP-v4&v6.sys, having your own private one in it's place which refuses M$ would also work.I wonder if something like PeerBlock, with the right table of IP's & ports would do it?http://peerblock.en.lo4d.com/detailsIt supposed to intercept right in-between Windows and it's TCPIP.sysI use it on win7 and it blocks anything I want, coming in or going out.You can make custom block lists, and ports, enable and disable them in real time...They claim Win10 support. However, it loads after windows boots, which means there is a small window of opportunity for windows to contact M$.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 07:16:31 pm
content: I wonder how many third party tools like this broke (or worse report they work and do nothing) after the recent "updates". Blocking at the router at least decouples you from the OS. Not aware of a MS patch that will reFLASH the router, yet anyway.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 11:53:13 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on October 14, 2017, 01:46:31 pmPass it through to the VM.I understand what you are asking but unless you want to get your hands dirty and learn to write Windows device drivers (and that's a nasty rabbit hole to crawl down), a VM or external firewall is the way to do what you want to do.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 12:27:53 am
content: I actually WANT to like windows 10, because 8 was so terrible, but the more I have to work with 10 the more I hate it and the more I'm glad I switched to Linux for my own stuff.I just hate how the dialogs are so big and flat and almost feel like they are often missing options. Everything takes up too much space, there's too much white, it's just ugly and annoying to work with. It also has so many weird quirks and because everything is so dumbed down it's hard to find any way to troubleshoot stuff. For example I had to troubleshoot a mic issue for a family member. Just trying to find a basic sound recorder program was like pulling teeth. The standard start menu is like completely useless, there's no "accessories" folders or anything, everything is just jumbled up together. Managed to found a recording app but it looks like it was coded by a 3 year old. It has like no features. I could not even tell if it was recording or not. Long story short one weird thing about this mic issue is that in the sound properties (after digging a lot to try to even find them) it showed that the mic was picking up sound, it was also set to default, and the only recording device, yet no other programs worked. I found another section where you have to give permission on a per app bassis, but you were limited by what is in the list. I had installed Audacity for troubleshooting since that recorder app was garbage, but it did not show up in the list.Overall I just found the entire experience unintuitive and frustrating. Never did figure out the issue and just gave up. On that same person's computer the printer also randomly stopped working. They are pushing all these forced updates and it just breaks everything.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:33:41 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 15, 2017, 12:27:53 amThey are all frustrating.I love Linux, but I have never once been able to successfully been able to do a version upgrade to an Ubuntu derivative without a non-working result. Quite often, the GUI never starts properly after updating. I am sure it works for some people - particularly if they are only using standard applications, but I now have to just clean install for a version upgrade. If you do not update the Linux versions, it usually means you cannot run the latest versions of applications unless you compile them yourself. That could mean you are not getting the latest security updates and bug fixes for applications.For this reason, I love the idea of the rolling updates - like Arch Linux derivatives - but at some point, the rolling updates will break things. No good for ordinary users. For example, a year or two ago, Samba (Windows network file sharing in Linux) decided to remove functionality from one of their services because they really wanted you to be using a different service to do that job. All of a sudden, perfectly working Windows shares stopped working.I did suspect that Windows 10 was going to be a 100% rolling update, but now we have discovered that Windows 10 is actually a new Windows version every year. This year, it is TWO new versions (the Fall Creators Edition is coming out this Tuesday I think). I like using WSUSoffline so I can update PC's offline, but with Windows 10, the updates seem to be largely combined in 12 massive files (many 1Gbyte in size), so downloading the latest Windows 10 updates for 32 and 64 bit involves 5 to 10GBytes of downloads.Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.I am still using Windows 8.1. It is better then Windows 7 as long as you configure it right so I don't have to use Metro (except for 1 window). If you like the Windows 7 interface, then the Windows 8.1 desktop is mostly the same, but the differences mostly improve it. I could not use Windows 8.1 "out of the box". Windows 8.1 will be supported until Jan 2023, but Microsoft have killed my ability to recommend it as they will end non-security updates next year on current Intel processors. 8.1 has over 5 years of life. They are crippling it!Just as a guide, here are the current sizes of the WSUSoffline updates (for Win32 and Win64 together):Windows 7: 5.9GbytesWindows 8.1: 7.1GbytesWindows 10: 12.2GbytesThe Windows 7 updates are for 8 years of updates.The Windows 10 updates are for just over 2 years of updates.Most of the Windows 10 updates is for functionality that most of us do not need or want.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 03:31:30 am
content: I assume this is a new feature added to the 1703 that was requested by the masses. Often now when starting the OS, it kicks off their store. It's never done this the year prior to the 1703 forced upgrade so I assume it is new. What's interesting is they start out trying to talk to their servers and all I get is a stupid spinner. As I continued to monitor the traffic, they seem to switch to Akamai's and get the store to show a LinkedIn ad.I left the store application open and changed the router tables to include this entire block. I then tried to access the store and after several minutes it fails. So it does appear they will use the CDM for a backup. Shutting down this block from Akamai did not seem to effect anything else, so far.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 03:37:26 am
content: Quote from: amspire on October 15, 2017, 02:33:41 amYeah Linux has it's issues too, one thing that frustrates me the most about it is the permission system especially over networks, it's really not scalable if you want multiple users to be able to have different permission levels. Ex: I can't imagine trying to manage it in a corporate environment. That and I hate how UID/GIDs have to match across all systems, that is the stupidest thing. It does not even care about the username/password. There's ways to set it up differently but it's very convoluted and I could not imagine having to go through all those steps on each and every machine, if there was a lot to do. I guess you could script it though... that's where Linux shines, it's easier to automate stuff.As far as windows 10 rolling updates I can't imagine how messy that is going to get over the years. Patches on top of patches on top of patches etc... Well, I guess even new releases are basically that.I don't understand how their OSes are so bloated though. Like how do you possibly have THAT much more code every time without really having anything to show for it? It's crazy. Heck, they even remove stuff. Like newer versions of windows don't have telnet, and other simple apps like that. Super annoying. You can install it, but if I'm troubleshooting something on a computer that's not mine, it's nice if it's already on there.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 06:54:32 am
content: Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 02:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 15, 2017, 06:54:32 amYou can turn this off, although I do believe it is on by default. Like so many annoying things about windows 10, you do have some control over them, you just have to go through the settings to turn off what you don't want/need. Ads, 'game recommendations', error reporting etc.. can all be turned off, the settings for which are not hidden away.Whilst I still prefer windows 7 - because as we get older we become more resistant to change - I don't like the idea of running an OS that no longer has support, and still has published vulnerabilities that will never be patched. Look at the regular wave of breaches for XP systems (that still has a significant market share in the UK- it won't be long before it could happen to 7/8.1Give it a year, and I'm sure there will be more information about customizing ones OS, optimizing memory usage and size making it more tolerable.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 03:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on October 15, 2017, 02:21:53 pmI played around with it when they were pushing the 1703 update, just for the local. Imagine the security problems if you could not disable it. Although, I have seen them re-enable features like this that I have disabled. Take the update service for example. When I just ran services, it was no longer set to disabled and was running. I disabled it, again.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 03:34:18 pm
content: Services will often be re-enabled after an update. If you defer updates, and allow them to install one by one manually, you can keep track of it. In some ways this is annoying, as you may have to do this every time, but on the flip side, it is part and parcel of keeping things 'up to date' for security. I imagine they reset some settings because users may turn off features vital to security, then forget they have done so, leaving themselves open - and of course, if they lose valuable data they will blame the OS, despite the user turning off features designed to prevent that.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 03:47:03 pm
content: To be clear I had disabled the update service after 1703 was installed, after blocking all the ports except for the three listed and after changing the router's tables to basically block all the traffic with Microsoft. Enabling the auto updates does not seem to do much except generate unanswered traffic.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 07:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: amspire on October 15, 2017, 02:33:41 amThey don't want money. They've got money. They want data.Yourdata.It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data. Who knew?

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 11:18:30 pm
content: Quote from: KE5FX on October 15, 2017, 07:52:30 pmPretty much this, data is now worth more than anything now days. And they know they have most people by the throat and most people are not going to switch to Linux, so they don't really care if they piss off people. What makes it worse is that the majority of people don't even care and just say "I have nothing to hide" and accept it.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 am
content: 1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.2. Not interested in untrustworthy cloud anything, but $84 a year? I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.Quote from: blueskull on October 15, 2017, 11:30:17 pm

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 02:44:43 am
content: Quote from: rdl on October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 amBefore you do that, why not put a KMS server on another PC on your network and install Win 10 Enterprise with a KMS key? That'll get you up, running and activated. Then you can try all the telemetry disabling stuff to see if it's worth spending the $20 to illegitimately get a "legit" key.

author: anishkgt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 07:30:35 am
content: Quote from: saturation on October 07, 2017, 05:27:01 pmCould you please share more on the VeraCypt. I did checkout what it was but since its related to security and encryption, i wish to know more about it. Windows does an encryption app called the BitLocker Drive encryption.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 08:27:12 am
content: Just a heads up with enterprise edition. It still has baseline security telemetry when everything else is turned off. That means it farts off binaries in your system via windows defender and smart screen randomly.This is why we’re making steps to kill it. Even via MDM/GPO it can’t meet our security policy.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 06:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on October 15, 2017, 11:18:30 pmQuite interesting take indeed. It looks to me that Windows has become a "free" shopping/advertisement platform. I wonder if that is one more nail in the coffin of desktop computing for the common man, given that mobile has been much more prevalent for this audience these days?One can only wonder...

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 09:17:04 pm
content: Dutch DPA: Microsoft breaches data protection law with Windows 10https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/en/news/dutch-dpa-microsoft-breaches-data-protection-law-windows-10

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:52:19 am
content: Quote from: rdl on October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 amYou're forgetting about the "Software as a Service" part. Everyone does it now. Why have people spend money once, when you could have them spending it forever?

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:22:03 am
content: Quote from: rdl on October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 amThank you for your report, User. This bug has been scheduled for attention at the highest level of priority. We are pleased to report that it will be fixed in the next release.-- Microsoft

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 02:38:26 am
content: Was going to watch some TV and about 10 minutes into it, there was that stupid update popup. This time it offered a hide button, so I selected that and went back to watching. Whole show disrupted now. Settled back in and again about 10 minutes later, the popup shows up. This time I tell it to go ahead and give up on using the PC. Thanks again Satya Nadella for taking a PC that has ran fine for a few years and rendering it useless.Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup. This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht! It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number. At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router. The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 08:59:59 am
content: i just found out yesterday, a lot of modern laptops have a rootkit in the UEFI bios that phones home and downloads a load of crap into your windows install!!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 10:10:09 am
content: It’s a shit show isn’t it?I actually installed freebsd on a spare desktop pc I have lying around yesterday. See if there is a decent spice variant in the ports collection ...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:37:13 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 18, 2017, 10:10:09 amPlease post what you find for SPICE. Maybe start a new thread for it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 12:00:10 pm
content: Will do.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 12:29:13 pm
content: LTspice ??i dont use it, but remember seeing it in repo's for years.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 01:45:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 18, 2017, 02:38:26 amLooks a typical scam to me, i once in awhile see it on exactly tv watching web sites. May have nothing to do with MS. You really think MS support wants to talk to you ?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 10:38:12 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on October 18, 2017, 01:45:11 pmI can only offer the forum what happens as I continue to tighten down on the traffic. I am not posting the information to try and sway anyone's feelings about it, more just sharing the direction I have taken to try and make the PCs stable again.If you would like more information about the Microsoft 10 Update Assistant and the message, just Google the following:"Something went wrong. You can contact Microsoft support for help with this error. Here is the error code"Leave the quotes in.I did not write down the specific code but assume that it would be unique to them being unable to download the updates. After uninstalling all their patches along with the new update assistant, I have not seen another popup on this PC.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 11:43:36 pm
content: Came across a free program ShutUp10 from the respected anti-defrag company O&O:https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10I haven't tried it yet, but it looks useful. It is a standalone portable program so it isn't installed, and it gives a simple interface to control security and privacy settings. If anyone is able to test it, it would be good to see if it helps to control Windows 10 a little. I currently cannot as my only Windows 10 is out of action till tomorrow.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:08:15 am
content: Quote from: amspire on October 18, 2017, 11:43:36 pmIt's probably one of the better ones, but all it does is wind all the publicly available switches down to zero. When I tried it, Windows was still very chatty,bthus my method of total isolation for the Windows machines.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:12:56 am
content: I was just able to try ShutUp10 in a Windows 10 VM that I had just updated to the Fall Creators Edition out last Tuesday.Seems to work OK. When doing the upgrade, I turned off all the privacy options and Cortana during the update. I had selected a "Keep Nothing" upgrade, so I turned off all the "Talk to Microsoft" features presented to a new Windows user during initial setup.ShutUp10 seems to show that over 90% of the Windows "Features" that talk to Microsoft are still running. I have attached a screen snapshot. There are another 3 pages of features after this one.You probably shouldn't just go in and disable everything (green). That would disable things like Windows Defender that you may actually want. So if you use this tool, you do have to read what you are disabling.ShutUp10 does have a recommended setting and you can choose the recommended setting for all the options with a click.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:28:02 am
content: Quote from: BradC on October 19, 2017, 12:08:15 amThanks. I just went in to Windows settings and turned off all the privacy options, and yet Shutup10 still shown the majority of the features can still chat to Microsoft. So this utility is probably a big improvement over wading through the Windows Settings, but I am sure you are right. There will be things that Microsoft never want to disable.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 03:23:43 am
content: I've been usingSpyBot Anti-Beaconand will check out ShutUp10. Looks interesting. Thanks for the link.Update: Just finished exploring it. Lots of good options in there. I blocked lots more stuff and exported the settings to make it easier to re-apply after future Windows updates.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 07:33:41 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 19, 2017, 03:23:43 amI also have been using spybot anti beacon plus I have turned cortana off in the registry plus the silent app installer. Without the browser open I have no outbound traffic according to wireshark after turning on the computer other than the handshake with router.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:39:24 pm
content: Comparison of Windows 10 Privacy toolshttps://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/Beware some tools change things that cannot be undoneWhy You Shouldn’t Use “Anti-Spying” Tools for Windows 10https://www.howtogeek.com/273513/why-you-shouldnt-use-anti-spying-tools-for-windows-10/

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 12:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 19, 2017, 12:39:24 pmThe things can be undone just fine. Those tools just won't. Others will, however.

author: HoracioDos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 01:14:02 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on October 19, 2017, 12:49:23 pmOk. That was a small warning. I read somewhere that changes are made not only in registry. Of course, they can be undone manually if needed.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 03:48:03 pm
content: Since it doesn't seem possible to make it completely non-intrusive and private with a reasonable amount of effort, I've found the best option is to simply not use Windows 10.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2017, 08:42:33 pm
content: Quote from: HoracioDos on October 19, 2017, 12:39:24 pmI have had no trouble with Windows update and as I use a separate anti virus program windows defender is disabled anyway and not wanted as for the windows store I have as yet to want anything from it, silent app installer is disabled in registry as I am fed up with having noxious games perpetually popping up.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 02:51:50 am
content: I decided to let the little laptop run this latest set of updates. Over 5GBytes downloading. Consider it had just downloaded 3GBytes I'm impressed. I assume 10Meg of that is for a new updater that will attempt to work around any blocks I have come up with, and 500M for the new Candy Crush game that requires .NET 10. 2G for the latest .NET 10. The rest being ad and spyware. Maybe some cute menu tossed in there.I would gut that company starting at the top. Come on Bill, find someone that won't destroy in a few years what it took so long to build.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2017, 01:08:41 pm
content: Bill is too busy with his covert ugenics program using insect delivered "vaccines" these days to give a shit about m$

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 01:17:55 pm
content: I will instert this here also:PSA: Do not install Microsoft creators fall update if you use AltiumThere is a problem with update kb4041681 which comes with this.https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4041681/windows-7-update-kb4041681OK, this is a windows 7 update issue, but it is clearly there in windows 10QuoteInstalling this update may cause applications based on the Microsoft JET Database Engine (Microsoft Access 2007 and older or non-Microsoft applications) to fail when creating or opening Microsoft Excel .xls files. The error message is, “Unexpected error from external database driver (1). (Microsoft JET Database Engine)".Altium uses this for DBLib libraries, at least the Excel ones. I couldnt open any of my libraries, I got a EOIeException error. SoI couldnt place any new components. I dont know what else might have been broken, I had to go back to a restore point.Forum with similar error.https://forum.live.altium.com/posts/219414Hopefully someone from Microsoft realizes, that they are breaking software that are somewhat more important than their 3D wet dream desktop.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 01:31:59 pm
content: Doesn't surprise me. They fired all their QA. We're all fucked.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 11:44:51 pm
content: Huh...Didn't someone earlier say Altium was the reason they were locked into MS Windows and couldn't use Linux or Mac? Well, guess that's resolved itself.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 12:15:55 am
content: Sure. (no sarcasm)I'm no fanboy, it's just increasingly easy to poke fun at MS. Give them some more time, I'm sure they will brew up more annoying bugs "for Altium to fix" by altering *their* software.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 11:30:21 am
content: Ran into a new problem but I am not sure if it related to the creators update. Its highly suspect.I have a custom board inside the PC that I talk to using LabVIEW. When I bought the new PC, I switched over to using their driver Wizard tool. This creates the INF and INI files. I then talk directly to the board using LabVIEW built-in functions.I went to run it and was able to read and write to the board just fine. Everything worked normal, except there were no interrupts. I did not suspect the hardware would fail and cause this. I had made no changes to the code since I ported over to with the new PC. When I would attempt to enable the events triggered by the hardware interrupt, LabVIEW will error with a code that had very little information on. Size mismatch or such.After various tests and having no luck, I was going to reinstall the hardware in the old P4 machine just to make sure it was not really a hardware problem. Instead, I decided to recreate the INF/INI files from scratch. The tool I used is the same version. The two files match with the old ones. I attempted to update the driver to new (even though it was identical) and Windows 10 would not allow it because of the signature. I used the shift restart/seven to override this. And bingo, it all starts working.I don't install a lot of software on this PC. The only other thing that was new was I had to upgrade VirtualBox after the creators update. It makes no sense that MS would have scrubbed the settings and disabled the interrupts. Yet, I can't explain why this happened. Maybe when they were blue screening my PC with their latest spyware, Candy Crush X-box updates, they disabled the hardware as part of the recovery.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 01:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 26, 2017, 12:01:57 amthat's interesting, it should run with MONO in Linux then.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 02:18:10 pm
content: Quote from: stj on October 26, 2017, 01:04:35 pmBecause that supports directx, right?I suspect maybe 1% of current Altium users want to run their tool on Linux, but 99% of Linux boys want Altium to support their OS. Even though they dont have a license for it, and not planning on getting one.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 02:59:57 pm
content: i'm not concerned,i do reverse engineering - not design engineering.the only thing in altium i would use is the schematic creation - and there are faster and smaller programs that do that just fine.(KiCad is not one of them!)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 05:28:51 pm
content: OK, this is REALLY important!Xilinx Vivado does run on Win 10 1703 but it will not start on 1709. The update has to be removed which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do.BUT... You need to now prevent Windows from automatically updating in the future. Google is your friend.It appears I may be stuck at 1703 for the foreseeable future.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2017, 06:18:10 pm
content: loltry to start it from a command-linethat trick used to show you what is not being found etc.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 10:06:34 pm
content: I already rolled back to 1703 and I guess I plan to stay there indefinitely. I simply can't afford to lose any node licensing or not be able to run Vivado. It would be fair to say I built the computer specifically to pick up the pace on FPGA projects. I don't use it on a daily basis.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 10:45:04 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 26, 2017, 05:28:51 pmWhat version of Vivado?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2017, 01:40:31 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on October 27, 2017, 10:45:04 pmVivado 2017.2When I checked the error code on Google, I found it to be a common problem. It seems many people are backing up to Win 7. That isn't necessary but it certainly doesn't run on Win 10 Version 1709.I have forgotten what the error code was and it isn't worth upgrading to 1709 to find it only to have to back down to 1703.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2025, 12:24:50 pm
content: I recently updated Windows 10 to 22H2, using an image, not over the internet. I think this is the forth time I have updated the OS on this PC. I was then reminded of MS's interference with my use of the computer the following day, as they pushed updates. I allowed it. Same on the following day. Run Wireshark for 15 minutes or so and sure enough, the new updates have added additional IPs for MS, just like every time I have upgraded. I have added the new IP blocks to the router and the OS is again silent.I am curious if anyone has ever dug into where MS stores the hard coded IP blocks?

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 05:42:33 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 15, 2025, 12:24:50 pmI just did that, and it made it so my home computer wouldn't boot anymore. Sorry, no boot device found. Thanks.I'm tech savvy, somewhat, so I was able to fix it through the command line, but I'm not impressed.We have a company goal of switching completely over to Linux in the next few years. It's not so easy, but I'm working with a customer now that is way on board because it makes their IT life easier, for this particular application.The fact is that with Windows, YOU are the product, not Windows. I'm kind of picking on Microsoft, but they're just one offender of many.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 10:49:53 am
content: They pushed another update the following day, doing a search now, it appears they opened up two new blocks of IPs that the OS is using. It's a pain to have to sniff the bus to figure out what has been added.I have not worked for a company who adopted it. The last time I looked at LINUX was at least five years ago. OCTAVE was STILL being build with 32-bit. Building for 64 and finding something that was stable was next to impossible. The documentation was way out of date. I wasted a lot of time trying to hunt down all the required files to rebuild it. Once you get it to build, there are too many problems to make it useful. Repeat the process of finding all the files to build it the previous version. Finally get it to build, and find different bugs. After you have four versions of 64-bit OCTAVE built, you pick the one with the bugs that effect you least. Typically I'll spend 2 weeks looking and am always left with a feeling of it was a waste of time. Not because of the OS, but the lack of compatible software for it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 05:04:30 pm
content: After this last update, there is a fair amount of traffic with various Microsoft Azure data centers. I mapped out the ones I found with wireshark and added these to router. Now when the PC boot, I don't seem to get all their new fancy backgrounds, tool bars feeds and other worthless to me features. So far, I don't see a problem with adding them.I have mapped MS IPs in 2017, 18, 20, 21 and 2025. At a glance, it looks like they are trying to take over the internet.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 05:11:02 pm
content: Have you considered just filtering DNS so you don't have to maintain IP level lists which absolutely will change over time?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 05:31:10 pm
content: I have not looked into any other method beyond blocking IPs. The only time it becomes a problem is when I update the OS, which is very rare. Actually, the mandated update they push is the whole reason for my blocking them.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 11:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2025, 05:04:30 pmI something this happening with Windows LTSB 2016 back in 2020 with traffic. I found when I switched of Device Association Framework (Dashost) it stopped.The windows update would be switched off but when left for about 5 minutes lots of activity from switch with the lights flashing, lots of IP address connections from TCPview from svchost.exe which seem to resolve to Microsoft and Azure. I was still trying to isolate the issue as i didn't think it was that believing whatever it was doing depended on that particiular service to start but gave up and just left it off. I had no printers joined up to it and "Device Installations Settings" disabled to prevent auto updating of drivers or software on things it finds on the network.I had it on my desk testing it out and see what it does and was removing things I don't like. I found it didn't seem to do this behaviour with LTSC build 1809 so I just cloned a copy over a few years later.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 02:31:33 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 16, 2025, 05:11:02 pmWhen I last looked there were some hardcoded IPs also.I only run Windows inside a VM and none of my WIndows VMs have access to the world. For the one application I need web access I use Firefox through a local proxy server.Not for everyone, but it stops all the applications phoning home too (I'm looking at you AutoDesk and Adobe).

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 04:57:38 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 15, 2025, 12:24:50 pmIf this is about the Windows update, I just take out the drive,Find WaaSMedic, and remove the files to it and in the backup/cache folders then search and remove it from the registry.Set updateorchestrator to manual (4) in registry editor offline mount in services. Go into C:\Windows\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestratorNote down the files.take ownship and remove them out somewhere.Put the drive back in.In C:\Windows\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestratorset permissions to deny "SYSTEM" account access.In registry search for the task names. Make a backup of each key. remove the contents but keep the key, then set "Deny" to "TrustedInstaller" account.Change UpdateOrchestrator in regedit services back to automatic so now when it starts that it can no longer set permissions to deny user accounts to the task scheduler tasks and recreate the keys to update and shutdown behind your back.It has worked for 5 years now with the LTSC.It took me weeks to observe what it was doing.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on August 17, 2025, 02:31:33 amI suspect this is true and that they continue to add addresses to each release.Blocking at the router requires no modifications to any of the PCs. It just takes some time to hunt down the new addresses.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 04:50:45 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on August 17, 2025, 02:31:33 amWell, I have a freshly updated Windows 10 VM running with all DNS blocked. So far, the only attempt to reach anything outside its subnet was an attempt to query an external DNS server. I'm curious what tried that.E: For giggles, it can now resolve dns.msftncsi.com, so it thinks it has connectivity. And still it hasn't tried anything.Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2025, 01:30:42 pmNor does blocking at the DNS level - and it doesn't fail the moment they decide to change their DNS records.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 05:49:45 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 17, 2025, 04:50:45 pmIf it is a hard coded IP as suggested, it's going right to the source.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 06:52:55 pm
content: not derailing the threadStopUpdates10 from Greatisis able to stop all updates from entering in a win 10 or 11 setup, freeso far it worked fine in a few setups we have, to keep them stabilized and functional without being messed up ...some machine are doing tests, need python or other stuff, that some updates brokes without warningsaint broke, we dont touch them ... and they dont touch the web

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 06:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2025, 05:49:45 pmWell, so far, no hard coded IPs to be seen.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 17, 2025, 06:57:22 pmFor a unique version of 10, I have blocked some IPs to prevent the updates. After updating 10, I have had to add more IPs. I have seen this behavior with each update. PCs that were not updated continue to be blocked using the original IPs.If it were by name, the older versions of the OS would continue to update with changes to the DNS (assuming nothing was blocked). This is not the behavior I seem to be seeing.This is why I have suggested these IPs are hard coded into each release.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:39:01 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2025, 07:29:31 pmNot if they're adding new domains, not new IPs. And you can keep those lists up to date automatically, because other people made them long ago.Again, absolutely zero attempt with DNS blocked to make contact with the outside world (apart from one attempt to reach an external DNS server I can't explain).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:45:46 pm
content: You think they have different unique names that they have added for each release?When looking with wireshark, I always see it going direct to unique Microsoft registered IPs.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 08:11:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2025, 07:45:46 pmI know they've added different domains as they've updated.QuoteImagine that, the IPs belong to Microsoft when they're running Microsoft services..Wireshark will show you the DNS requests resolving those IPs, too.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:34:32 pm
content: Can you provide a list of the domain names you have blocked?As long as I am not using the PC on the internet, it never seems to go to the DNS. I just let the PC run, collect what ever IPs it uses, see if they are owned by MS, and if so, block them.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 17, 2025, 09:34:32 pmSure, *. As I said, I blocked all DNS to prove the point.There's significant lists here for 10:https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/tree/master/data/hostsQuoteMeanwhile, a nice empty list of absolutely no attempts to contact external services without DNS resolution of them..

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:53:39 pm
content: What are you using to block them?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:07:25 pm
content: I usePi-holeat the moment, but most any DNS server can use a blocklist.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:10:51 pm
content: What are you running it on?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:45:05 pm
content: A container on one of my machines. Any old Pi will do, though.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 01:44:36 am
content: One thing I can not stand is something that does not do what I set it to do where I have no control over it and other processes override what you do. That'd be SCUMMY WaaSMedic and OSRSS (I think?) that I remembered removing in 2019 in pro, then LTSB AND LTSC.I know the DNS thing works well but when taking out you'd have to carry around that portable router. I'd want to get to the source and gut out that crap and make alterarations it till it does what I want it to do where I know it is not going to do things I don't want it to do behind my back when given an opportunity.Absolutely disgusting users have to resort into using a pocket firewall just be in control or interference harassment they receive from the updates and that Appstore. There's not way I could tolerate that behaviour.If you want to give my modified LTSC disc image a go I am willing to make a copy available but of course need to buy a key from a volume licensor before connecting it up to internet. Took me about two years to get it the way I want it before I started using it. Might get another 4 years of being left alone. On 1806 no stupid "APP" store and promotional things that can install without consent another big nono.I remember sending Steve30 a copy a few years ago and I gifted and paid for his key and he seemed pleased with it when he tested it during some video editing I think.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 02:21:59 am
content: You dedicate a PC for your routing? Why not just use a router? Do you use every entry in the lists you provided? Looks like 2-3000.Using the IPs, its about 20 - 30 lines.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 02:30:02 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2025, 02:21:59 amWhat's a PC? A computer. What's a router? Well, it's a computer which is used to route. And yes, because I have needs beyond that of the average, I do use an actual PC for the task. But Pi-hole isn't a router, doesn't run on my router, and doesn't run on anything dedicated to it. As I said, it runs in a container - a virtual environment alongside numerous others.QuoteNo, because I'm not attempting to block those functions. If I did, using all three lists would take three lines.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:17:07 am
content: Blocking Windows is a fools errand, IMHO, like sticking fingers in a leaky dam. It's a loosing battle.Better strategy is to dual boot to Linux, and dedicate Windows to what you really need it for, if anything. It will get harder and harder to lock down Windows, so why fight it? Just accept that's what the platform is. It's not going to get better, ever. It will only ever get worse. They've said as much, and we should believe them. So the real path forward IF this is a problem is to choose something else.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 04:22:20 am
content: Or do as I do: get yourself a copy of good old Windoze 7.No phoning home.Pretty stable. (Make sure you have AV!)Does everything I need it to do (and I do programming with it).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 11:51:57 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on August 18, 2025, 03:17:07 amSo far blocking Windows 10 over the last 8 years has not been much of a problem. I spent far less time sniffing than I did attempting to build software for LINUX.Quote from: Monkeh on August 18, 2025, 02:30:02 amArchitecture. My router is nothing like a PC.QuoteCould you explain this?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 12:18:49 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2025, 11:51:57 amWhich of course has nothing to do with something which is not a router doing something which is not routing, but anyway..QuoteThe server uses the lists directly. You do not have to manually add every entry, you just tell it to fetch the list.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 12:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on August 18, 2025, 03:17:07 amYeah, and deal with compiling software, then deal with it getting broken when installing other software, and entering sudo password for every fucking little thing. Infuriating. Thanks but no,thanks.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 12:41:44 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 18, 2025, 12:18:49 pmI certainly agree that a generic PC can act as a router but I have not seen a product sold as a router that would make for a good PC.QuoteThat makes sense. Those lists were all three years old. Where are you pulling the lists that are maintained from?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 01:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2025, 12:41:44 pmThose lists are current for Windows 10, which has not seen a feature update in three years. There are, of course, great multitudes of other lists for other purposes which are worth investigating.Windows does appear to occasionally attempt external resolution to bypass local DNS filtering, but this is trivially prevented.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 01:04:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on August 18, 2025, 01:01:47 pmCare to provide further details on this?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 01:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2025, 01:04:43 pmWindows will reach out to 162.159.36.2 to resolve fe3cr.delivery.mp.microsoft.com. Simply blocking outbound DNS except to your approved resolver will prevent this - if you're to filter DNS, it's best not to leave the side door open while the front is guarded.This did take a day or so for it to try. So I guess there's one hardcoded IP.Now, if it takes a day to get around to it and resolves it to an address you haven't blocked..

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 02:01:37 pm
content: I have yet to block any IPs owned by cloudflarenet. EEVBLOG and a few other sites I visit use them.QuoteAny new set of IPs owned by MS that I locate, I add to my block list. It's been a few days since the last changes. So far, all is good. Last time I looked was 2021, or four years ago. I had no problems until this last update (like every other time I have updated).Time wise on my part, there is not a lot involved. There are not many sets of IPs that I have located.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 02:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on August 18, 2025, 12:31:25 pmI literally can't remember the last time I had to compile something myself for Linux.Also, Windows asks you to elevate/give permission for quite a few things as well.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 02:25:25 pm
content: My desktop is an old Ubuntu 22.04. Don't need to update daily/weekly, don't need an antivirus, don't need to compile, and didn't touch Windows since a decade ago (don't recall exactly since when).Honestly, I don't understand how anybody can still stay captive to Microsoft and all its crap in 2025.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on August 18, 2025, 02:25:25 pmSounds similar to what I hear from MAC users. Unless the corporate world adopts it, I won't embrace it. I don't see that happening in my life time.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 04:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 18, 2025, 03:04:12 pmCompanies that are pushing online services, like Adobe, are most likely using Linux infrastructure for their hosting. The comparative ease, efficiency, and cost-effectiveness of using Linux for cloud hosting is a thing that is pushing the corporate world in that direction. Once companies have gone through the exercise of a Linux port for cloud hosting, one of the major barriers to desktop support is overcome.If the corporate world starts seeing Microsoft as a cost rather than a benefit (continuing obsolescence, expensive upgrade/migration cycles, subscription fees) then change may happen.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 05:31:54 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on August 18, 2025, 04:57:22 pmSure, we may even go to the metric system like I was told some 40-50 years ago... Anything can happen.I've never worked for a company where the end product was software. I don't remember there ever being enough interest in LINUX to investigate how much of the software we use would even run on it. Having such a rich history with MS since the first IBM PC, I don't see a change coming anytime soon.***DOS 1.0 released August 1981. That's a long time in corporate America.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 07:06:35 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on August 18, 2025, 02:25:25 pmIt seems to be turning more captive than ever. I mean I read that they now DEMAND that laptops have a camera after a certain date:A Reddit post:https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/peiy23/microsoft_makes_webcams_mandatory_on_windows_11/I tend to disable the built in ones. In the 2010's I remember at one time camera's were once vulnerable to things like Flash player. I'd get laptops to look at where the camera light use to turn on on it's own when connected up to find a service or a rootkit installed by what they thought was "a free game" they installed which I use to warn them against.I never bother using the built in cameras due to rubbish picture quality. They may be better now but I don't like or want a camera CONSTANTLY FACING DIRECTLY AT MY FACE DIRECTLY IN MY LINE OF SITE but i don't mind at other angles.Considering they were poor quality I find that just intrusive, spying on the back door treating the user stupidly like sh*t and b*gger off Microsoft, what a begger's belief). I winder how are they going to enforce this, during installation? and then what if it was disc imaged across, have some nagging dialogue in front.If I couldn't make my modified copy the way I did now where it functions in the way I want and does only what I want it to do then I'd stayed with Windows 7 until I find another solution.I use to like Ubuntu until they started out with the Unity thing in 2012 I think then "Activities" and the annoying animations.I am thinking about Ubuntu Studio (based on that Ubuntu) but comes with KDE that allows me to switch off most of that annoyances and animations and some useful packages in there for audio that I appreciate considering it is free (free and not burdensome).One thing i noticed is sometimes it display that annoying dimming overlay behind dialogues over things I might be trying to read something i can't stand especially when excessive but generally to me it looks promising and a future option.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 07:17:58 pm
content: For work, pretty much every PC has a camera and mic for running Teams. I assume any laptop or notebook you would buy today would have one built in. Privacy wise, you could always cover it up. Guessing they want the microphone as well.I have yet to run Windows 11.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 07:44:06 pm
content: Quotenothing a bit of tape or a laser pointer cant cureQuoteso dont use unity

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2025, 02:35:46 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on August 18, 2025, 07:44:06 pmOh yes in one of the LTS editions in 2012 I managed to remove it.I found no "unity" in it has I found no options to hide it when totally unwanted that I found some instructions to remove the package altogether.

author: u666sa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2025, 05:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2025, 10:49:53 amFreeBSD is an excellent operating system. Very simple to use, much more secure than Linux. Combine FreeBSD with tor browser

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 02:36:08 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on August 19, 2025, 02:35:46 amThey dumped Unity, like, almost 10 years ago.Ubuntu with KDE is a good experience.Quote from: joeqsmith on August 16, 2025, 10:49:53 amWhy don't you just use the supported version instead of building your own?For real, I really don't care one bit what OS anyone uses, but a lot of problems are self-inflicted.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 03:53:57 am
content: Reading this, by the way, via smartphone (maybe some $32 plus $40 monthly.I read the really complex, and bulky comments, as people, including very productive EE's struggle. Hard to follow, but one learns how to 'triage' largely by ignoring the really detailed and convoluted arguments.I suppose one could argue, that (I) should wade in and learn to deal with the sheer bulk. Yeah, if that was clearly possible.Smartphone, music videos, and some great writings by other EE's (and wanna-be EE's) is the outer limits, of what I seek. Plus wanting to teach a little music / piano theory. (THAT, also from an EE perspective.)Hey, uh (wait for it...here it comes, lol):Can you folks (please) include your price of purchase & maybe hours spent, on 'Teaching Microsoft' how to behave, w customers.Of course, though, I must admit, smartphone as main computer / server does suck, and often.(PS; I have been seeing A LOT of software quality issues, more lately, on the cheapo Adnoid Phones. Like spontaneous settings, turning off my ringer settings, going into Screen Lock, PIN required (first day of purchase).Big box stores and all: They don't care and aren't set up to handle technology product shortfalls.But, I've posted this as I am somewhat shocked, by the levels of, err, dis-satisfaction among the crowd of responders, here!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 12:48:45 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on August 22, 2025, 02:36:08 amThe 32-bit version would not support the large data sets I was working with at the time using Matlab on Windows.***After locating that last block of IPs owned by Microsoft and adding them to the router, all has been silent with the new updates. While the DNS lists were maybe 2-3000 long, there are only 20 or so blocks of IPs. I have to imagine the router can handle these short rules faster than the long lists. Consider that a block is normally well over 64k IPs.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 12:55:39 pm
content: Matlab runs on linux.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 01:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on August 22, 2025, 12:55:39 pmYou asked why I wasn't using the "supported version". As far as knowing what software we use will run on LINUX:QuoteThat's true for any OS beyond Windows.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 02:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on August 22, 2025, 01:13:37 pmNo, I get that. I was more wondering if you own Matlab, why not just run that on Linux instead of trying to recompile Octave?The landscape for what's available in Linux has changed pretty significantly in the last decade. Altium and Solidworks are the two holdouts that would force me to dual boot or have a dedicated computer. Most others have jumped in, including things like Labview and Matlab.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 02:47:27 pm
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on August 22, 2025, 02:04:27 pmI didn't look into Matlab licensing. National Instruments had a version for LINUX at least 25 years ago but it was limited (few features were support). It was similar to their early 64-bit versions. I think they still offer it but they do require a separate license. I am not sure if MatLab has 100% support for LINUX or if they require a separate license. I'm sure I could have obtained a temp license if I wanted. Of course, there are several applications in use beyond these two. It would take time to determine if they all support the same releases of LINUX, licensing, what features no longer work..... The fact that you are having to dual boot pretty much says it all.***Emerson, NI and LabView, from a corporation stand point it would be a non-issue as we pretty much dropped them. I still use LabView at home, but getting a new license for LINUX and Windows would cost about $20,000 USD. It's just not worth it. They are too busy fucking over the few customers they have left and working on features that I personally don't give a shit about. If they had even just doubled the price with a perpetual license, I may have pulled the trigger as the 2020 version we use has a few features I would want. Namely, the 64-bit release was fully functional.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 04:01:21 pm
content: Looking at the latest data I have collected, I have now located 21 blocks of IPs owned by MS, which includes Azure.The total number of IPs is now 62.96 million.Of course, this prevents ALL Microsoft traffic (until the next time I decide to upgrade the OS). I don't get their latest screen backgrounds, the tool bar weather and news, candy crush, or any updates what so ever.A few years ago, I was playing an on-line game (rare I play any games). When MS bought Blizzard, they moved the IPs to MS. No more Blizzard, which was an improvement in life anyway. Maybe more important would be I have no access to any of their on-line help, tools...... It's all blocked. I admit it is a very heavy handed approach to dealing with their mandated forced updates.QuoteThe cost of a router is typically under $250. I may invest a couple of hours (my time), each time I have upgraded the OS to track down their latest back doors. Of course that may take a few days of sniffing traffic.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2025, 05:19:24 pm
content: Again, I have not allowed MS to upgrade this PC very often, but shown is the number of IPs owned by Microsoft that I detected since 2017 to current. Almost a 7X growth.Now maybe they always had 70 million IPs, or maybe they have even more assigned to them. I don't know. These are just what I have identified when making the updates. I tighten it down until I no longer see any traffic. And again, if say the OS had not been patched since 2017, it would not be effected by these new blocks they appear to have added. Each update has allowed access to more IPs.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2025, 06:00:48 am
content: some chatter on netQuoteQuoteQuote

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2025, 01:49:06 pm
content: From what I have read, MS has not yet been able to replicate the SSD failure but they also talk about the restore option now being a problem.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2025, 03:18:45 pm
content: Discovered another block of IPs owned by MS. The total is now over 80 million that are being blocked.One thing I have noticed with this latest version is during boot, they have changed something in how they discover the attached peripherals. This PC has custom made hardware. There are no drivers for it. There are some other non-standard hardware features. When the PC boots, it now connects/disconnects from various devices several times. You end up with the 3-dings repeating over and over. This now takes a few minutes for the OS to settle. The previous versions did not do this. Beyond that, I have not ran into any problems with it. All my software/hardware continues to be compatible.