DMM opinion Agilent u1252B or Fluke 87-V - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2011, 11:53:30 pm
content: Hi,Need advice regarding which to get, Agilent U1252b at $368 or Fluke 87-V at $320.Is the additional features of the agilent a worthy competitor for the Fluke 87-V?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 09:07:49 am
content: My generic advice would be,to get the DMM with the advanced features that you needtoday.By the way , how many DMM have you buy so far ?And with what criteria ?Good info for starters in the first document ( here ) .http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?cc=GR&lc=eng&nid=-34618.920238&pageMode=AN( by the way, I think that this thread should move on thegeneral chatsection )

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 02:41:47 pm
content: No i don't intent to get a whole lot of meters before i get the correct one. Therefore i hope those who already own multiple meters could give some advice. At the moment i am sure i don't need a 28-II. A 289 would be ideal only if the price is at the u1252B level.I do benchwork and i need a meter with high accuracy than the old Kyoritsu 2000 that i am using. What i like about the u1252b is the higher 100mf capacitance measurement so i don't have to wire them up in series to measure them with a fluke 87V. I deal with large caps.I don't really care about data logging at the moment as connecting a meter constantly will affect the performance of the circuit i measures. But you never know when you will need it. Anyway the cable i presume is not included.I am a bit concert about 87-V being susceptible to gsm signals and god know what. Does high voltage em waves affect it too? I am look for an accurate meter as a benchmark so if it is prone to interference it can be an huge minus.Perhaps it is a hard question to ask since each has their own weakens and strength that makes comparison difficult.

author: Wim_L
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 03:01:10 pm
content: If it's for bench work only, and you need high accuracy, perhaps you should be looking at bench multimeters instead of portables? Possibly second hand but calibrated recently?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 04:37:46 pm
content: Quote from: shadowless on May 07, 2011, 02:41:47 pmWell I do not know how well did you read the thread ( or not at all ) about the "87-V being susceptible to gsm",in the forum ..The major point is not if it is susceptible to gsm or not ,the true problem are that you can not use it by holding at the same hand the DMM and the mobile phone in call mode.Mostly electricians gets effected by this issue, who work in teams, and they have to be in touch by using mobile phones.And so, no one who doesjust bench work, gets actually effected by this susceptibility to GSM.Some young ones took advantage of this discovery ( 87V susceptibility - first shown in the EEV-forum ),and use it as excuse , for blasting the product as an problematic one.Well it is not a problematic one , that's my view about it.( And I do laugh with all those videos in youtube , that they replicate the 87V susceptibility,like to was an Circus stage , that Lions and bears run in a cycle so to collect the applause of the visitors) .Truly, I was hopping that true professionals, they would had the ability to see the true inconvenience that this susceptibility causes,than staying just in the surface of it .My computer speakers are also susceptible to GSM , every time that a mobile phone goes close to them,they make the known noises (digital interference tones),and they distort the music that comes from my computer .And so what ?Its an temporarily effect , it does not effect my work .About capacitors, if you work with them that frequently ,start thinking about getting an single tester just for that.My opinion is that we have to always look the capacitor tester on the DMM, as auxiliary tool , and not as primary.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 07:46:55 pm
content: Why would you want to measure the capacitance of large electrolytics? They are usually clearly marked. Accuracy is rarely important. Capacitance is not a good parameter to judge their condition, ESR and leakage (neither of which can be measured by a DMM) are much more important.About your question: both are good meters. You pay a little more for more features. The GSM susceptibility issue is clearly a design flaw, but I wouldn't consider it a big deal. If you're aware of it, it is easy to avoid placing your mobile phone within say 10cm of your DMM, especially when calling. And many people (including Dave) have used the 87-V for years without noticing the issue.I think Dave clearly showed the pro and cons of each meter, the final decision is your call. Neither of them are bad choices.

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2011, 08:11:44 pm
content: Thanks for the advice. I don't have a permanent bench, hence potable multimeter. I don't want to gather too many duplicated equipment so I guess i roughly know what i need to get.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2011, 05:04:25 pm
content: I have a 1252a and an 87V, they are about equal in DC accuracy despite the seemingly more accurate spec sheet on the Agilent. But the key differences you should aware off:Battery life of the 1252a LCD Agilent is only 10% of the Fluke 87V, or 3% if you chose the OLED versionAC, volts and amps, on the 1252a are 50% better than the 87V above 1kHz up to its rated highest frequency, about 100kHz for TRMSFrequency counter to 20 MHz on the Agilent, 200kHz on the Fluke but usable to 1MHzCapacitance accuracy is equalThe dual screen on the Agilent is very helpful in reading say, frequency and voltage simultaneously.The Agilent has USB connect option and a 200 entry data logger, easy to save measurements rather than writing it down on paper.The Agilent is a bit too sensitive, and is more likely to take longer to settle down, if you don't have your leads placed properly or your circuit is full of noise. It is very prone to picking up noise in the 1Meg ohm range and up, making it far less easy to measure high resistances.The test leads on the Fluke are superior in ergonomics and construction. Main leads of the Agilent are on par but the supplied accessories are mediocre build quality compared to a Pomona or Fluke set, but they are free. These accessories feel like PVC [ vs silicone for the main test leads] and the banana jack sleeve are too soft and oversized, so when you insert the test probes you'll miss the socket nearly 8/10 you insert it unless you look at it purposefully before inserting it.The Fluke ergonomics make it easier to work with and learn to use all its advanced functions.Summary: they are on par. If I had to choose one Fluke 87V for a field > lab work, and Agilent for lab > field work. Fluke has been proven in real life situations and the prior model has been known to last over 20 years. 1052a series is but 5 years old, there are a lot of unknowns in terms of long term reliability for the benefits it provides.Quote from: shadowless on May 06, 2011, 11:53:30 pm

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2011, 05:56:55 pm
content: FWIW I've been tracking several 1252 series Agilent DMMs that have mysteriously appeared en masse on eBay, now going on about 1 month. Despite all this time, from different sellers, not one has sold. Give you pause to think.OTAH, I also track many Fluke 87V and they sell within or less than the auction period. Prices typically in the $160-230 range, and new ones $300-400. Older series 80s Fluke still typically sell from about $100 and up.

author: shadowless
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2011, 10:44:00 pm
content: Thanks for the detail comparison, this is what I am looking for as a comparison that would help me with decision making. Appreciate the long reply.I am not a feld person, the meter would not leave the house. Fluke reputation is hard to compete with, only time will tell. Agilent has a more limited and immature range of accessories. Does 3rd party temp probes work on agilent?

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 01:19:28 am
content: I bet that every K-Type probe will work fine with it .About the Agilent accessories quality , I will have soon an opinion about them. ( In the next few days )They do have in their range and some more advanced in quality temperature probes (costly ones)I had accidentally add one , in my wish list of accessories, as I do participate as tester in their marketing research program.And other than the DMM unit it self , I will probably get one of those probes too.And I say the word "accidentally", because I found many days later on,of how costly it was ( Surface-Probe U1182A ), and I started to feel some sort of guilt about it.About the Fluke accessories , leads - crocks - extensions, they can be used on both DMM (Fluke and Agilent).Do not let this minor detail stopping you, from getting the what ever DMM, that you favor most.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 02:24:18 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 09, 2011, 01:19:28 amOne thing to note about Agilent accesories is that they don't rip you off, all are very reasonably priced, even in Oz$http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?cc=AU&lc=eng&nid=-34618.956189&pageMode=OPe..g the USB serial interface is AU$49Dave.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 03:17:20 am
content: I can vouch for Agilent's reasonable pricing on accessories. I paid $38 for my USB interface through Grainger. For comparison, I last spent $30 for an IR adapter plus $65 for the USB-to-serial cable to do datalogging with an older model Greenlee DMM. I haven't seen any Fluke leads lately, but both my U1211A and U1272A have very good quality leads for field work - silicone rubber and super tight connectors on the meter end. One thing I will mention - I have two sets of leads with the interchangeable ends (shrouded) and one pair of probe only leads (U1165A, made in Germany) and the German made ones seem more stable for probed (vs. clipped on) resistance readings. I'm guessing better overall quality.

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:08:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2011, 02:24:18 amFluke USB cable is $49.99 CAD. Software is about $100 but it's a lot better that most DMMs have. Amprobes (Fluke) software is 29.99 USD WITH cable included.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:38:03 am
content: Quote from: Wartex on May 09, 2011, 05:08:20 amOh, I thought the software was free, haven't actually checked that yet...Dave.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 01:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2011, 02:24:18 amI had to manually select Australia as default location , in order to see the pricing .( I had register to Agilent all ready , and my cookies are registered as Greek too )Even so, I have to agree with you about the pricing.But I think ( since I had buy so many test leads in 2010) :Leads from trusted Chinese brandsFluke TL71Amprobe MTL 90BI could possibly tell , or spot , the differences.I have to admit that the rubberized soft feeling , that some Fluke accessories offers to your palm,it is looks like a point of superiority.Every accessory that came with my 28II , I have it still unused, in the carbon box.Because I had buy separately the TL71 & AC72 (premium leads and crocks).The strong point of Agilent about accessories looks to be the U1168A Standard Test Lead Set package,lots of stuff in it , but this is mostly helpful for starters.If you do own, lots of leads and extensions like , add on crocks or pin set .Something that you care for , is to be all of them compatible, no matter the brand.The Amprobe MTL 90B leads (that comes with crocks) , is totally incompatible with the Fluke accessories.( Amprobe crocks to Fluke leads)If I found such an issue with the Agilent parts, I would be very unhappy about it.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 02:18:10 pm
content: Am I the only one that finds Agilent's web site ungly?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:18:06 pm
content: Its not ugly but certainly not attractive. but its very functional and I can get hold of all their tech data easily.Quote from: firewalker on May 09, 2011, 02:18:10 pm

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:27:56 pm
content: If there is something that I can say for their web site ,is that I like this simplified look of it .And what I liked more , was their technical documents,its not many , but they are very well written,I found many answers about questions that had bother me in the past.The Fluke documents , they have an very irritating marketing tone in them.And have 50% fear factor about CAT + 45% product promotion + 5% technical explanations.Agilent uses 10% fear factor + 90% technical explanations.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:33:28 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on May 09, 2011, 05:18:06 pmWell I took me long time to write my thoughts,and I posted my reply with out having read yours first ..By seeing how close our opinions are , I got an true surprise ..

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 05:48:12 pm
content: For cheap but functional test leads, look at Extech: you can get an entire set of alligators, miniclips, lantern probes etc., for $20. One key to lower cost is PVC insulated leads while the Fluke's are silicone rubber.Its likely a reason Agilent accessories shipped with my 1252a are free, its PVC too and the construction seem on the low end. Compare to the PVC variety sold by Extech versus Extech's own silicone based leads, the prices goes up over 2-3x.http://www.extech.com/instruments/categories.asp?catid=52Are the Fluke's worth the money? Just try to buy low cost clips and convert the cables to silicone. You'll be hardpressed to not reach Fluke's prices and not still have the same quality are their clips.Fluke isn't the only one with good leads, just you'll get what you pay for. Its a good compromise since the main annoyance with test leads is the main cable and probes, and less so the tip accessories.But you'll find with the alligators: insertion is error prone with Agilent's lead, but no-brainer with the Pomona/Fluke. The miniclips and grabbers in the Agilent work well but are not as sure fitting as Flukes: you replace the entire probe with the accessory so it fits tightly onto the cables. When you switch accessories a lot, those small differences start to matter, but hey, free is free! I use the Fluke accessories on the Agilent.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2011, 06:32:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 09, 2011, 02:24:18 amIt depends on the area. E.g. some oscilloscope accessories are ridiculous expensive. Watch thishttp://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/product.jspx?nid=-34382.793269.00&lc=eng&cc=USand note the elegant zip tie which is included.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2011, 02:39:17 am
content: I've had no problems using Fluke clips with my Agilent leads. They were the first accessory I bought for my U1211A. Later I got a cheap set of Craftsman accessories that look a lot like the Extech set someone mentioned and they all fit as well. What I still need to organize is some kind of toolbox for my U1272A and all those leads, my phone tester, my cable tester and my insulation tester. It's a mess with all the leads, accessories and USB cable to store...

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2011, 11:46:29 am
content: Try an army surplus tool bag. Its $11-18 [ I got mine for $4]; its WWII design, and having seen the WWII version know the canvas can last a lifetime. Cable and accessories go to any of 2 outside side pockets, and it has small pockets and bandolier inside. I prefer canvas like the military does as it will not burn a hole easily faced with hot embers or such.The price range is for standard and extra large.Quote from: PetrosA on May 10, 2011, 02:39:17 am

author: piercent
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 05:27:04 pm
content: Fluke just published a paper the ABCs of DMMs covering multimeter features and functions.http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/fluke/ABCs_of_DMMs.pdfIt's fairly comprehensive and covers choosing a DMM, Ohm's law, accuracy, digital and analog displays, DC and AC voltage and current, how to make voltage, current and resistance measurements, resistance, continuity and diodes, current probe accessories, safety, DMM failure, accessories and has a glossary. The main Newark Fluke page is herehttp://www.newark.com/fluke.