Eagle goes rogue - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 01:51:59 pm
content: Eagle goes rogue, so it is time to move to KiCAD, orgEDA

author: jaromir
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 02:55:55 pm
content: There is subforum dealing with gEDAhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/geda/

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 07:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:59 pmIs Eagle no longer available as free/limited for non-commercial use?As it happens, I am just now writing an Eagle-to-KiCad conversion tool. I wonder how long they will keep the file format open, could be a waste of time!

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 10:40:20 am
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on January 21, 2017, 07:11:09 pmEagle is now property of Autodesk, and they changed their license into 500USD per year. So the license is no more a lifetime license, it has an expiration date, montly, yearly, you can choose, but no doubt it's more expensive.No changes on the free-limited editions, but there are no more educational licenses.Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on January 21, 2017, 07:11:09 pmawesome, is there a repository ?

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 11:28:48 am
content: Quote from: legacy on January 22, 2017, 10:40:20 amIt was intended for my own use, but I might publish it on github when it is slightly more usable.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 11:42:28 am
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on January 21, 2017, 07:11:09 pmOnly the versions <= V7.70 which you can still download, install and use without the need to register:ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 12:48:26 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 22, 2017, 10:40:20 amThat's not quite true. There is still a free version, but it now requires an Autodesk account and it phones home to check up on you.That's not a change to the capabilities of the free version, but it's worth being aware of.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 06:26:38 pm
content: I wanted to try it, but

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 07:06:17 pm
content: I'd be expecting this on Windows if it would throw an error saying: "You are using Windows 95, this software requires at least Windows XP". Well, Apple...

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 07:47:20 pm
content: Quote from: Scrts on January 22, 2017, 07:06:17 pmWhat do you expect Apple to do about it?CadSoft decides which OS versions their software supports... not Apple.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 08:31:43 pm
content: I evaluated Eagle some time back, must have been about 7 years ago and decided the free version was far too limited. I went with KiCad and have been using it ever since, seems like a no-brainer to me. I tried several other EDAs around the same time, played with OrCad at work, tried every hobbyist oriented package I could find as well as a couple other commercial ones. My conclusion was that they all suck, they all have quirks, they all have a learning curve, and once you learn your way around, most of them will do the job. Given the way Autodesk has behaved on this matter, I would not even consider Eagle.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 08:33:43 pm
content: unless it uses some of the newer OS feature it's easy to get around the version lock.right click on the application, show additional content. open the .plist file and change the minimum OS version to whatever. save, apply command "touch" to the app and presto!http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/17396/forcing-getting-app-to-run-on-lower-mac-osx-version

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 09:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 22, 2017, 08:31:43 pmWhat do you think about OrCAD ?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 10:04:08 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 22, 2017, 09:33:57 pmThat was more than 12 years ago, it seemed complex and confusing at the time but I hadn't really learned any of them proficiently back then. Honestly I don't feel like I can have a useful opinion on OrCad at this point without seeing what a modern version has to offer. I've been using KiCad almost exclusively for a bit over 7 years now and done many dozens of boards in that time, I hardly notice the quirks anymore and have seen no reason to seriously pursue anything else. Perhaps if I were designing complex multilayer stuff like PC motherboards or RF products I would feel differently.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 11:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 22, 2017, 08:33:43 pmThanks for the tip. It works ! (until I reach a problem)I had to register in autodesk, but this is minor. Will see how it goes. Eagle is my CAD of choice.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 01:36:06 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 22, 2017, 08:31:43 pmIs it easy to find libraries like it is for Eagle? Or you have to makeevery single componentyou need to use?

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 02:19:36 am
content: Re: OrCAD, No mention of price on their website, and "How to Buy" refers you to find a "channel partner" for a quote. I learned decades ago, "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 04:27:17 am
content: Quote from: Scrts on January 23, 2017, 01:36:06 amI haven't had any trouble finding libraries, although I only use them for common stuff like resistors, capacitors, IC form factors and whatnot. For anything else I normally just create my own parts, it's faster than looking for something that will work and I get precisely what I want rather than settling for close enough. That was something I learned early on when I was trying out different software, I'd find library parts that looked reasonable but weren't quite right or left something to be desired. They usually come in big collections so then my libraries get cluttered with hundreds of parts I never, ever use. It takes only a few minutes to create a new part and if you go off the datasheet or use a caliper to measure a part in hand, the layout for it will fit perfectly every time.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 05:17:40 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 23, 2017, 04:27:17 amExactly, never rely on third party parts libraries, you *will* get bitten. (Vendor provided libraries are generally OK, though I'd still verify each part with the datasheet's recommendations to make sure.I don't know about Eagle or KidCad (see what I did there?), but in most sane EDA tools creating your own footprints is pretty easy.If I create the footprint myself, which takes only a few minutes really, then I *know* it's right.DipTrace (which is what I use) includes thousands of patterns as part of the core library and they all seem to be fine, though I still verify pad sizes and spacing for anything other than generic passives. (And if they need to be changed I can just copy the pattern in question from the core library to my user library and apply changes.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 05:40:22 am
content: Creating parts in KiCad is pretty much the same as creating parts in any other EDA I've tried. You draw the schematic symbol in the library editor and you use the module editor to create and name the pads, draw the outline, etc. Eagle and KiCad are really very similar, all of the professional grade EDAs work very similarly, going from one to another is just a matter of learning the quirks.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 12:31:57 pm
content: Farnell / E14 used to have parts on their website, not sure if they still do - can't say i've noticed the eagle part download button since they changed their website a few months back, I don't know if they still update it, but you can buy EAGLE still from Farnell / E14.Anyone know for sure?

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 12:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 23, 2017, 02:19:36 amHere OrCAD v9 was 5200 Euro for a single node locked license.A customer bought it.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 12:58:49 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 23, 2017, 02:19:36 amWell, SAN MATEO, Calif. Intercept Technology Inc will give you a blast since their DrawingX, QCX and ReleaseX arepriced at $25,000 eachfor a site license. All are supported on HP-UX/PA, Linux/x86, Solaris/Sparc and Windows/x86 platforms.Located around San Jose, CA, New Cadence Allegro combines Best-of-Breed Design and Analysis Tools with a Co-Design Methodology Across All Three Design Domains IC, Package, and PCB. The Cadence Allegro platform supports Windows, Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM AIX, and Red Hat Linux platforms. Specific operating system support varies by product. U.S. pricing for a1-year license starts at $54,000for the Allegro Package Designer, $45,000 for the Allegro Package SI and $25,200 for the Allegro PCB SI.In these cases, yes, just don't ask the price

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 02:31:17 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 23, 2017, 05:40:22 amIt would be a pain to do components if you work with FPGAs. Do 484 pin component just eats time, especially when one pins has like 3 options. I guess there is also no way to import from other CADs?

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 03:22:20 pm
content: well, any chance you happen have XC95108-7PC84C for EagleCAD? KiCAD?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 04:19:11 pm
content: Quote from: Scrts on January 23, 2017, 02:31:17 pmI did that once, and then wrote a script to do it for me from then on (at least for Xilinx). Now doing a 484 or 676 or whatever pin FPGA takes no more than 2-3 minutes with KiCAD with zero errors. It helps that all of KiCAD's files are plain ASCII, so you can create or edit them however you like.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 09:41:01 pm
content: I was just checking out the subscription page, and thought that $20/month would be handy if I ever wanted to work on eagle files. The big limitation is 2 signal layers, but if a power plane can be split to hold a couple of different power nets (can it??) that would be OK for a lot of projects.And even the pro version is only $90/month. It'll mean that people like me can cheaply get their hands on Eagle to do a paid job if needed, without having to buy the full license, and just charge the rental of the license to the customer.. Compared to the old pricing model which I looked at ages ago and had about 10 different price points with different levels of features, I think this is an improvement.The free version now seems able to be used professionally, but has the free version always been so terribly limited? - 2 schematic sheets?? yikes. I can see how makers will be annoyed if work done in their older free version of the software can no longer be used in the new free version..I wonder what happens to everyone who owns a perpetual license for an older version?

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 09:47:35 pm
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on January 21, 2017, 07:11:09 pmwell, if they really piss people off, or scare them away, I guess right now is the time where the conversion tool would be needed. On existing files.Altium does an OK job of importing ASCII eagle projects too.... (though I have this niggling feeling there's also binary eagle format that eagle users can choose to save in?) I imported the EEZ-PSU project to have a look and it handled that mostly OK with a few spun around connectors. That could be an interesting project to test your converter on.. it has 3 different PCBs in one file, and a pile of schematic sheets in the one schematic file that relate to different boards in the PCB... if your converter can handle that it can handle anything! :-)

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2017, 10:32:37 pm
content: QuoteA power plane would count as a separate layer in Eagle. 2 layers means two layer PCBs, not two signal layers in the CAD package.QuoteThe free version is NOT ALLOWED to be used professionally. Non-commercial use only.QuoteIt used to be limited to one schematic sheet (of infinite size...) This has never particularly struck me as a limiting restriction.It used to be that $49 (then $69) would upgrade you from the free non-commercial version to the low-end commercial license (which had the same physical limitations.) So if you designed an Arduino shield as a hobbyist and suddenly everyone wanted to buy it, you could shell out a bit of cash and be all legal and moral to sell PCBs on Tindie, or in your web store, or whatever.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:41:52 am
content: Quote from: westfw on January 23, 2017, 10:32:37 pmaaah - so by "signal layer" they mean *ANY* metal layer on the PCB? that's, well... the politest way i can describe that would be to call it "alternative terminology"In that case, the $20/month version is pretty useless for anyone doing anything moderately interesting. Still. nice to know I can temporarily grab the full version for 90/month if I ever need it.Quotehttp://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/free-download"Download free version of EAGLEPCB design software for students, makers, and professionals."I haven't read terms past this download page, and I know what the rule used to be, but if you can't use it for professional work then it is NOT free software for professionals, and at very least they'll need to fix this page.Quoteaaargh!!! the horror!

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:57:53 am
content: Quote from: legacy on January 23, 2017, 12:58:49 pmTypical marketing buzzword bullshit. I'm surprised they didn't use "synergy" as well.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 03:07:19 am
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 24, 2017, 01:57:53 amWow, that's right out of the corporate BS generator.http://cbsg.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/liveAt a place I used to work, the CEO would send out emails now and then that sounded exactly like they were written by that. We would all look at each other and snicker whenever one came on.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 03:10:04 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 24, 2017, 03:07:19 amMission Statement Generator

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 06:41:31 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 24, 2017, 03:10:04 amHah! Armed with this, I'm all set to become CEO of a fortune 500 company

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:05:58 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 24, 2017, 01:57:53 amI was looking for an EDA software for my HPUX v11.11 2xPA8900@1.1Ghz UNIX workstation.Just because I am curious, but it's 10 orders over the definition of "expensive", so I am putting linux and KiCAD on itHave you ever used Synergy ? If yes, where? UNIX? HP? IBM? SUN?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:11:17 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 22, 2017, 09:33:57 pmI use it every day professionally - Capture and PCB Designer, which is the entry level version of Allegro.IIRC you can now rent this package for about £600/year here in the UK. I have a perpetual licence which was around £2000.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2017, 01:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on January 24, 2017, 01:11:17 pmI have used Allegro HDL from Cadence for my work as automotive HW engineer. It's powerful tool with lots of custom integration we had, however I really liked Altium more.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 03:08:08 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on January 24, 2017, 01:11:17 pm£2000 for a perpetual license is a bargain compared to £600 a year. PCB technology has not changed much in a while, I'm not even sure what new features a CAD company could come up with to entice me to upgrade if I already had paid a bundle for a license. That's only going to get more true I suspect, which is why everyone is so keen on going to the subscription model. Thankfully with open source offerings getting better all the time, the ball is in our court.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 07:54:51 am
content: I felt much the same. The cost of rental is actually about the same as the (optional) annual maintenance and support fee for the perpetual licence, which I decided not to continue with this year as the updates coming out just weren't that useful to me. I have a tool now which works and which does everything I need.There are a *lot* of additional features in the higher licence variants, though. If you ever find yourself thinking that an open-source tool might be somewhere near 'complete', just compare its feature set, performance and usability to something like Orcad PCB Designer Professional, which is about £4000 to buy.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2017, 08:57:17 am
content: Well the open source stuff doesn't yet match the high dollar pro stuff but it's getting closer all the time and for all but the most hard core hobbyists it's good enough. Big companies doing high end stuff will always be able to afford to pay for the top end software, that has always been out of the hobbyist reach anyway.I've observed a trend with software in general, having been a computer enthusiast since the mid 80s. For a long time I eagerly anticipated the next version of practically anything. I drooled over the new features it would add, new capabilities it would give me, newer was always better. The same was true of hardware, a brand new top of the line machine was fast but never quite as fast as would have been nice. You never had enough RAM, hard drive was never big enough, monitor never had enough pixels or enough colors, there was *always* an upgrade on the horizon. Then sometime around a decade ago things started to plateau, productivity software pretty much had all the features people needed, for the first time ever available computing power really started to outstrip user needs. RAM got cheaper and cheaper, hard drives grew into hundreds of gigabytes and for the first time ever I started to have difficulty filling them up. I started encountering new versions of software that were actually *worse* than the versions they replaced. I got burned multiple times by this and upgrades went from something I eagerly anticipated to something I approached with caution or avoided entirely. New versions moved everything around, making arbitrary UI changes, adding useless features and/or taking away or breaking features I did use.More recently almost everything has progressed to a rapid release cycle, QA has become largely a thing of the past, replaced with a ship it now, fix it later, fix it often mentality, a constant stream of updates that interrupt my work flow and break stuff that was working as often as they fix stuff that was broken.Rather than a finished, tested product, software is in a perpetual beta, QA is passed on to the end user, and the product is in a constant state of flux like one of those project cars that is never finished, always being tinkered with and modified,always something half baked, zip-tied, dangling wires, accessories that aren't hooked up yet and sections of bare primer bodywork.Well this has turned into more of a rant that I intended, I'll get off my soapbox now.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 12:18:58 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 25, 2017, 08:57:17 amThere is a good reason for this. You see, the problem is that software doesn't wear out - and in an economy that relies on constant consumption of new products this is very bad news.But don't worry, the fix is in. Modern software is designed to wear out after a fixed period, so you have to buy it again and again. This way the corporations can continue sucking at your wallet and get even richer. Ain't Capitalism wonderful?

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 07:40:37 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 26, 2017, 12:18:58 amThanks to capitalism you are free to start to write and sell your own EDA software.With communism everybody is obliged to use one and the same product owned by the state.And the state will decide which features are good enough for you and which bugs will be solved.Ain't that wonderfull?Capitalism is far from perfect but all other solutions are worse. Read some history.Look at which countries build fences to keep people out and which countries build fences to keep their people in.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 08:15:06 am
content: There's been mention on the Time Nuts mailing list of an email address where you can send your concerns about Eagle, apparently Autodesk seem to believe the subscription model is welcomed by customers.Support.eagle@autodesk.com(Sorry if this is a breach of some nettiquette rules but, screengrab of the relevant email body)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 08:51:47 am
content: I'm not anti-capitalism, but like any system it does have flaws. It works both ways though, yes a company can try to charge whatever they want for something, but I can also decide whether or not I agree with the terms and I'm free to shop elsewhere. The more mature a software product gets, the less significant each iteration becomes so the easier it is for community developed open source software to catch up. At some point it might just be the case that software isn't worth as much as it used to be. There are only so many times one can reinvent the wheel, and since software never wears out you have to either keep finding new customers or keep convincing existing customers to buy new versions. I get that, but I'm not obligated to support a given company's business model.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:52:10 am
content: To cut a long story short, the biggest problem with EDA software is vendor-lockin & non-standardized (and proprietary) file formats.The only real solution for this is to make available and/or improve the already existent open-source EDA packages.If enough companies start to donate money / programmers, the problem will be solved and we will reach something like Libreoffice which is,at some points, maybe not as good as ms office but is still perfect for 95% of the users.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on January 26, 2017, 09:52:10 amBut why would they do that? Donating money and programmers just cuts into profits and kills their market. In a Capitalist economy, any company that gives their stuff away is cutting their own throatunlessit's just a hook to get customers buying their other stuff, and/or an attempt to kill the competition so they can corner the market.On the other side we have programmers spending a lot of time and effort to develop true open-source software simply because they think others might need it - with no expectation of any payback. That's not Capitalism, so what is it? Sound more like...'a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.'

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 21, 2017, 01:51:59 pmI tried KiCAD a while back and hated it. Perhaps it's improved now? Let's see...Oh yes, now they have a wonderful 'push and shove' router! Just one problem - for some peculiar reason it only works in OpenGL. Why would that be a problem for me? The graphic driver in my computer has OpenGL v2.0, but KiCAD needs v2.1!!! Why???And the user interface still sucks...

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 26, 2017, 10:09:10 pmSo, why are the biggest contributors to Linux big "capitalistic" companies?Because they use Linux as a tool to run their business. And there's no reason whyelectronic design companies can't do the same.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:13:14 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 26, 2017, 10:31:55 pmBeats me, but you could buy a nice new PC dedicated to running KiCad for the cost of renting Eagle for a year or two.The interface kinda sucks, but the Eagle interface sucks too, it's just a matter of what you're used to. I used to use Eagle but I've been using KiCad for quite a few years now and it's fine. I tried every EDA I could get my hands on and came to the conclusion that they all suck, stick with any one of them and most will do the job.

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:24:10 am
content: Well OpenGL

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 05:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 26, 2017, 10:31:55 pmPerhaps you can ask your graphics card vendor to update their drivers.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 05:27:49 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on January 27, 2017, 05:06:47 pmAsk Dell? Yeah right.Their website has a page with (presumably the latest) drivers for all their machines - only problem is it doesn't work for me. I can select the computer model, graphics card etc., but clicking the download button doesnothing. At some point the frustration just isn't worth the effort...Quote from: james_sSure, but KiCAD sucks more. Nevertheless Iwilllearn how to use it, in case I need to make a large/multilayer board that the free version of Eagle can't do.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 02:24:23 pm
content: OpenGL 2.1 was released in 2006, 10 years is a pretty reasonable time to allow for adoption. It's not like you need last year's hardware.Funny, I have just being getting to grips with Eagle in order to test my project converter. I find in Eagle I can't even select an object reliably, I often end up rotating some other object instead. It's been driving me nuts, do I really need to consult the manual just to figure out how to select an object? In comparison, KiCad's method is reliable and easy to use, so I in this case I would give the points to KiCad.The judgement of "suckiness" seems pretty much to be what you are used to.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 05:49:10 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 28, 2017, 05:27:49 amI always go to graphics card manufacturer website and get the latest drivers there. My HP laptop support page offers older drivers. When I updated graphics drivers from Intel, there was windows update offering me older drivers from Microsoft.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 05:02:34 am
content: Quote from: Scrts on January 28, 2017, 05:49:10 pmATI is apparently owned by AMD now and I can't find a driver for my card on their website. I have a newer PC that surely will work but I don't want to move it into the workshop, so at this point I am resigned to just running KiCAD in default graphic mode.Now the newbie questions begin...To drag an object in KiCad you hover over it and press 'G'. So I do this over a via and it pops up a menu with 4 options - the via itself and the 3 tracks connecting it to it.Question 1: is there any way to make KiCad select the via automatically, or do I have to traverse the menu every time?Question 2: If Ihaveto select a track from the menu, how can I tell which one to select (apart from trying to figure it out from the descriptions)?Question 3: If I select the via then it snaps to the visible grid when being moved, but if I select a track it snaps to a larger grid. Why does it do this?

author: alex0801
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 09:12:53 am
content: Time to finally switch to KiCAD....

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 11:48:24 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 29, 2017, 05:02:34 amSorry, I don't buy it. On AMD website you can download even win98 drivers for Radeon 7000 series from 2001. what is GPU model?

author: legacy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 12:12:08 pm
content: Jesus, can't you buy a new laptop ?

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 09:26:58 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 29, 2017, 11:48:24 amRadeon X600 256MB Hypermemory. Please show me where to download the driver from AMD's website!

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 09:36:02 pm
content: Quote from: legacy on January 29, 2017, 12:12:08 pmIt's a tower not a laptop. I could buy a new graphics card for it I suppose, but if I have to buy new hardware just to run KiCad then that Eagle subscription starts to look a lot more attractive.Anyway enough of that. Does anyone here actuallyuseKiCad? Where can a newbie get good advice on how to operate it efficiently?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 11:16:22 pm
content: Not when you can buy a new GPU for £50 as a one time purchase, and the EAGLE subscription costs £400 per year. Use yer loaf!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 11:31:15 pm
content: You could buy an entire brand new PC every single year for the cost of an Eagle subscription, only you don't have to, buy it once and you're good for another decade.I've been using KiCad for about 8 years, I've done many dozens of boards including two commercial products with it. There's a KiCad forum right here on eevblog.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 12:13:45 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 29, 2017, 09:26:58 pmOption 1:http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop/legacy?product=Legacy1&os=Windows%20Vista%20-%2032Option 2:Find Radeon custom drivers. For example there were Radeon Omega drivers. Tweaked stuff.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 12:44:55 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 29, 2017, 09:36:02 pmYou could also tryhttps://forum.kicad.info/, there is a Yahoo group but I wouldn't recommend it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 01:56:34 am
content: Does anyone still use the yahoo group? I used to belong to a number of yahoo groups, they all became unusable after Yahoo revamped everything and they died out.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 08:54:08 am
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 29, 2017, 09:26:58 pmhttp://support.amd.com/en-us/download

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 05:14:40 pm
content: Quote from: Bruce Abbott on January 28, 2017, 05:27:49 amI was being facetious -- my Dell Studio XPS running Win7 kept exhorting me to UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 10 RIGHT NOW! during that free upgrade time last year. After being assured that I could revert back to Win7 (and ensuring my backups were up to date), I did so. And the machine booted into 640x480 VGA and the two displays were mirrored. Dell no longer supports the machine, and AMD doesn't support the graphics card. I reverted back.As for why the CERN guys chose OpenGL 2.1 instead of 2.0? You'd have to ask them. There is always going to be pain at where you draw your development line.

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 09:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 30, 2017, 08:54:08 amBeen there, done that. Clicking "display results" didnothing. But wait, perhaps there is a reason for that? Turned off hosts file and... bingo!That's the good news, now for the bad. Installed driver from AMD. Now KiCAD switches to opengl and... promptly crashes!Time for a system restore....

author: Bruce Abbott
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2017, 09:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 29, 2017, 11:31:15 pmThanks for that, checking it out now!