circuit design and oscillation  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Carey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 04:47:34 pm
content: hello every my name is carey and im working on a clean energy project. My question is in my design works by oscillation, I haven't bought an oscillator and sign generator yet due to I want to get the parts needed and build a prototype and I was wondering is there a way for me to fix a certain wavelength into a diode in my prototype, so that it repeats from a fixed point ,for example a wavelength goes at 0,1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1,0 I would only need section 3,4,5,4,3,2

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 05:41:45 pm
content: Is this clean energy as in wind and wateror as in perpetual motion energy from the ether etc and snake oil

author: Carey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 06:05:27 pm
content: This is plasma. I am building a fusor with a few variation I've made in the design and it produces x-ray particles at certain frequency i.e "4,5,6,5,4" the high end and I want to use the low end and patch them like 1,2,3,-3,-2,-1 so that it's in constant loop, but doesn't reach the high end. all parts have been designs. but due to my lack of electrical skill I came here seeing as I watch his youtube vidz and I might find help on here

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 06:11:48 pm
content: You're going to have to explain what you want a bit more clearly. Diodes don't have wavelength and "4,5,6,5,4" is not a frequency.Also, if this is about what I think it is, you might want to don your asbestos underpants....

author: Carey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 09:56:08 pm
content: I use the 4,5,6,,5,4, as a example of how the oscillations/wavelength goes up and down on an oscilloscope, after a frequency has been put in. I came across a 8MHz crystal oscillator and I wanted to use it in my circuit so when I apply current to my fusor it will operate at the same at frequency/wavelength. I'm not sure if the crystal oscillator work the way I think though (the oscillator charges the capacitor at the stored wavelength imputed into it when jump started)sorry if this is still hard to understand I have little electrical background

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2013, 10:09:52 pm
content: OK. One thing to clarify: is it a crystaloscillator, or just acrystal? (How many pins does it have?)Also - you're right, you're horribly confused!But I can be gentle.... maybe.... if I have enough coffee first....Do you have a camera handy? Sketch what you want like it would appear on the scope screen and post a picture.

author: Carey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 03:43:14 pm
content: In this photo it shows the sine wave and the the 1st X is where the radiation would start and end at the other x on the opposing side. The green line shows where its safe and I would like to use both side to make one sine wave I think it called a modified sine wave if I remember right.The cycles would work with one for charging: 1,2,3,2,1 and the other for discharging -1,-2,-3,-2,-1I did some research and I came across Voltage-controlled oscillators, which looks like the type that would work for me. The crystal oscillatorhttp://dx.com/p/49s-electronic-diy-8mhz-crystal-oscillator-silver-10-pcs-164603looks like it only works for crystals according to wikipedia sorry. I bet you was likeandis he talking about

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 03:54:36 pm
content: OK. One thing to keep in mind is that people are lazy with naming of crystals and crystal oscillators all the time. Those crystal "oscillators" are actually just crystals. A quartz crystal by itself serves to regulate the frequency of an oscillator circuit, while the oscillator actually generates the waveform.Thisorthisis what a true crystaloscillatorlooks like.I'm still not 100% clear on what you want to do. First, I think you may be red-green colorblind, that's actually aredline!! Or there's actually a green line too, and I'm the blind one and can't see it...But I'm not sure what you mean by "use both sides to make one sine wave". Are you saying you want to generate asecondsine wave synchronized to this one? In that case, what you're looking for is a "phase-locked loop", and yes, they do use VCOs.What exactly does this sine wavedo? Maybe that would help me understand what you want. Where is this signal, what does it control (or represent), and where does/should it come from?

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:38:38 pm
content: Quote from: Carey on August 05, 2013, 06:05:27 pmI was going to come up with an acerbic comment about mixing a shitload of hype words into one sentence that makes absolutely no sense whatever.But then i remembered that the free energy crew lives in an alternate version of reality where words have different and much more elastic meanings. Thus 'plasma' does not really mean plasma, a 'fusor' does not really operate by nuclear fusion and 'x-ray particles' can be whatever the writer happens to fancy this week.Which is all good, because heaven help if any of those really worked. Well OK, plasma you can get from a workshop plasma torch but beats me what the correlation of that would be with free energy. X rays and fusion ...riiight. While the latter under some conditions _may_ qualify as 'clean energy', i say dream on.But by all means include and oscillator somewhere - it can't hurt.Frankly, i think there are other sites, forums and audiences more receptive to these 'inventions'.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 04:52:19 pm
content: OK, Carey, sorry for talking about you "behind your back", but......Kremmen, yes, I think his intended purpose for this is probably bullshit. And yeah, most of that seemed a bit like word salad to me. But rather than telling these people "piss off, you're an idiot", I'd rather try to guide them in the right direction instead. If that means playing with real electronics a bit to help him build his horseshit generator, I'm all for it. A curious spirit and some time poking around in the real world goes a long way.Carey, if you don't believe me that it's crap,pleasego ahead and continue to play with it (as long as you're not doing anything too dangerous). Either prove me wrong or prove yourself wrong, either is good, but discover and provesomething.Just saying "it's bullshit because I said so and you should believe me because I said so" goes completely against the scientific spirit that you (not you personally, perhaps, but lots of people here) shame the free energy crew for not having.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 05:45:14 pm
content: Perhaps i should apologize for my rudeness and it is nothing personal. c4757p you are right of course but in my experience the prognosis is not good. In my experience the concept of free energy is like faith healing - the people attracted will not respond to facts that conflict with their ideas which tend to have little basis in known physics.But i don't want to rub it in any more than i did already so better for me to shut up.If some concrete electronic issues pop up here then i might rejoin on that basis.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 06:21:17 pm
content: If you are nice to them you attract more of them. Not clever.

author: Carey
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 06:33:54 pm
content: It's okay people have their opinion. I was one of them to who didn't believe it's possible to get more energy out that you put in. But as I started designing it and reverse engineering how the part work I notice flaw in the design. Companies and people have even listed patients on such devices, so I can't be to far off the make. I do this some free energy method are flawed, since I can't find proof to prove it. My method involved redesigning the tesla coil and we've all seen those work and my design is just some combining of the tesla coil, fusor LHC and cern. the best way to think of it as is instead of striking flint stones to make fire, I just combine these and had you a butane torchAnyway thanks for the help and here's some patients of people design methods, though I not sure if any has built one yet.http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130015257.pdfhttp://www.google.com/patents/US8436543

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 06:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: Carey on August 06, 2013, 06:33:54 pmOh, dear. Not Tesla coils...Could you explain what you think the "flaw" is? Not trying to be (too much of) a smartass, I'm genuinely curious. I will say that I think you are very, very mistaken. I tried reading those patents, but I became drunk on the whereins, passed out and am now suffering from a massive hangover. I just can't take patent-speak....From what I gather from the patents, neither implies receiving more power than you put in. It all seems to be basic energy conversion of the type normally bound by the laws of thermodynamics....

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 07:41:50 pm
content: You can't break the laws of physics.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 07:56:10 pm
content: Well, youcan, but you get onehellof a ticket.Or you publish a paper.

author: CodyShaw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 08:13:44 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 06, 2013, 07:56:10 pmWuh oh, that's a sure way to get a lot of Physicists pissed off with you in short order.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 08:50:09 pm
content: Quote from: Carey on August 06, 2013, 06:33:54 pmI think I (we/the rest of us here) are the ones that have facts on our side and it is you who trusts on opinion or faith or whatever. A fact being defined as a belief in a verifiably true assertion, where the opposite case would be a bigger stretch. On that note the overunity schemes are invariably based on wishful thinking. The established fact is that energy cannot be created from nothing, only converted from one form to another (in the wide sense from matter via E=mc^2). None of these cases however violate conservation of mass-energy. So you would be better off continuing to believe that you really cannot win, and seldom get even, even.QuoteIt would beverysomewhat interesting to see what is your hypothesis for breaking the conservation law. If you are man enough to describe it here i promise it will take not 5 minutes to spot the flaw. Most of the free energy propellerheads know this deep within but since the fruit is so juicy they manage to stay in denial.And for pete's sake don't quote patent applications as proof of anything. Especially the US pat off is notorious for granting patents for everything from virgins to unicorns without the slightest requirement of actual functionality. All, and i mean 100%, of free energy patents are toilet paper, not worth anything.QuoteNot all of CERN one hopes, that being a rather massive installation... See this is the problem. Your 'plan' makes no sense. I too can combine a heap of unrelated random items but again it doesn't mean anything. Can you even put into simple words how such a combination would be accomplished and what is supposed to happen after the items you mention are 'combined'?QuoteThe first patent document is some kind of attempt - frankly rather silly - to improve the efficiency of a wind turbine by application of a EHD (electro-hydrodynamic) charge extraction by charged water mist. EHD generators are actually used e.g. in Tokamak type fusion reactors where the superhot fast moving plasma intersects an imposed magnetic field. Suitably placed electrodes can extract power from the conductive plasma. This idea won't translate to a puny water mist system where the water has to be separately charged anyway. I promise the efficiency will be low enough so that it is better to delete the contraption and just run the windmill as intended. Overunity - no way jose.The second patent talks about a power supply for a plasma system so it is not even relevant to overunity schemes in any way...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 08:59:48 pm
content: Quote from: CodyShaw on August 06, 2013, 08:13:44 pmNah.... not if they know what a 'law' is! Einstein "broke" Newtonian physics. More precisely, refined it, of course, but... semantics.....Not that I think any of this stuff has potential to do that. I was just being a bit facetious. I guess I still am. Hopefully Carey (and physicists!) can handle a bit of piss-taking.Quote from: Kremmen on August 06, 2013, 08:50:09 pmI was trying to resist saying something about that...Please... if you're building CERN into this...invite me goddammit!

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: Carey on August 05, 2013, 09:56:08 pmIt sounds like what you really need for your prototyping is a bit of test equipment called an Arbitrary Waveform Generator (AWG), because with an AWG you can generator virtually any type of repetitive waveform.If you want to generate a sine wave that has a wavelength that changes up steadily to a fix value and then back down again (in a linear fashion), with an AWG you could generate a Sine wave and then use a Triangle Wave to modulate the sine wave using Frequency Modulation.If you try this with a Voltage Controlled Oscillator (VCO) you would need another Oscillator that generators a Triangle wave, and then you would use the Triangle Wave to control the Frequency of the VCO.Of course with both hand built oscillator or and AWG you may need to build some type of amplifier to get the signal levels you require.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:19:43 pm
content: Yep..... if you're trying to rewrite the laws of physics an AWG is hardly overly specialized equipment. Buy me one while you're at it!! My function generator's kinda sucky...

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:40:51 pm
content: Does it really matter if it’s achievable or not? Whilst he enjoys what he does, doesn’t harm himself or others (in anyway because of his projects), doesn’t go begging for money to found his projects, and learns something along the way.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:44:15 pm
content: Isn't that kind of what I said earlier?

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 06, 2013, 09:44:15 pmYep but you seem to change your mind.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 09:52:09 pm
content: Nah. I'm not going to refuse to help him with an electronics-related question or tell him to piss off or anything, and I encourage him to experiment. That said, I'm hardly going to refrain from a bit of lighthearted prodding, which Ialsothoroughly encourage him to return!I'm not going to lie and say I think there's a snowball's chance in hell that his experiment will be successful, but I'm also not going to hold my nose up and refuse to engage him.

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 10:16:08 pm
content: Fair enough, and I’m not his mum or dad in case anyone was wondering.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 10:19:28 pm
content: Iwaswondering about that...

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2013, 10:29:12 pm
content: Well they say the apple never falls to far from the tree, and I‘ve never really believed in free energy, so that‘s all the proof you need on a forum.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 06:08:44 am
content: OK, now we are getting somewhere.From the circuit diagram, this seems to be some kind of resonant circuit involving an AC supply at one end and a Tesla coil somewhere at the other end. Or how sould we interpret the annotation " <here's a tesla coil> "? meaning the (air core) transformer on the right is the tesla coil?The middle loop with the spark gap is supposed to be a resonant circuit, right? And that is "jump started" by application of the AC that is then removed afterwards?The role of the torus is a bit unclear. How is it supposed to be "combined" (your word from the annotation) with the HV cap and the primary? Also, isn't the secondary of the tesla coil the HV side so why specifically a HV cap on the primary side?OK so far, but now comes the $1000 question? Where does the energy come from that sustains oscillation and how does this circuit produce power?

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 01:20:55 pm
content: The Torus acts as a capacitor which forms a resonant circuit with the secondary.Yes do it, build a Tesla coil. It's a fun and educational project. It's no free energy machine but who cares? It's good.Be careful with experimenting with high voltages though.

author: MasterOfNone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 09:56:34 pm
content: I didn’t know much about Tesla Coils until I looked them up (and I still don’t), but making a mistake while experimenting with low voltage electronics is usually pretty safe because of equipment like the bench PSU. Experimenting with a mains driven circuit that can produce 6000V or more can‘t really be safe, so you really need know what you are doing.From what I have gathered even if you manage not to injure or kill yourself, the thing could generate some spikes on the mains that could damage other equipment or burnout the house wiring if the design is wrong