"The Great One Man Myth" (or: Elon Musk Deconstructed) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 08:12:43 pm
content: http://www.technologyreview.com/review/539861/techs-enduring-great-man-myth/Discuss.Quote

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 08:55:12 pm
content: TL,DR.Obama expressed that socialist point of view much better "you didn't build it"

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 09:30:38 pm
content: As much as I admire what Mr Musk does referring to him as an inventor or engineer is wrong. He is the product architect at Tesla, but that just means he basically has final say on what goes or not. He's obviously very knowledgeable about the industries he is involved in, but he is not directly involved in any of the engineering or design stuff.As for government subsidies this comes up far too often. Tesla paid off the loan and the only subsidy they get now is tax benefits which work out to something like less than 0.01% of what the oil industry receives or in discounts on mortgages.

author: Tallie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 09:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 04, 2015, 09:30:38 pmIs this fact?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 09:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: Tallie on August 04, 2015, 09:31:28 pmWell, he probably has final say on what is done or not. And he decides on the general direction the company follows. But he didn't influence the choice of 18650 cells, or how the motor is made, or how the cooling system works, etc.At best he's a physicist with programming experience. And he's made some pretty stupid comments before about software, specifically the open source software that Tesla and SpaceX uses and concerns about open source software being less secure, which is nonsense.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 09:36:38 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 04, 2015, 08:55:12 pmIt's socialist now to give credit where it's due? Or just not to lick the boots of "job creators"? I have infinitely more respect for the people who do things than for the people who tell them what to do.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 10:19:22 pm
content: Just regurgitated Musk hater nonsense repackaged. The article is pretty blatant editorializing without offering evidence to back up most of the claims. Definitely not journalism.Musk is surely full of human imperfections but just like Jobs, his success attracts those who seem preoccupied with them and seek to deny his well earned success.Quote from: zapta on August 04, 2015, 08:55:12 pm

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 10:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 04, 2015, 08:55:12 pmC'mon! It's the MIT Technology Review! Totally unbiased, objective, and scientifically sound.After seeing Elon Musk's management style in action, I would be very hesitant to ever work for him. At the same time, without Elon Musk, none of these ventures would exist. And he's the only one that's made an electric car that doesn't suck.I hate subsidies as much as anyone, but the U.S. spends IIRC, $6B each year, just patrolling the Persian Gulf. That's a hell of a subsidy just to assure supply of a minority of our fuel requirements.And the Space Shuttle was really cool, but SpaceX's launch cost per kg is nearly 1/10th the cost of the cheapest shuttle mission. In fact, the entire SpaceX development program is less than the cost of the top end of one shuttle mission ($1.5B).Not bad performance for our tax dollars...

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2015, 11:24:02 pm
content: QuoteIf that was true then I guess the Musk statement would be somewhere on the web. Anyone know where?All he has to do now is change his birth certificate so he can become Prez. Then the subsidies would really flow like they did for Halliburton.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 12:02:42 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on August 04, 2015, 11:24:02 pmYou don't get things by becoming President. Infinitely cheaper, easier, and more effective to simply donate money so that the sitting President has to do what you say. The American political system is corrupt to the core, and blindingly obviously so. The rich canbuya US President.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 12:09:05 am
content: If the Musk story gets people fired up, so will this one about Jobs:http://www.technologyreview.com/news/532841/steve-jobs-lives-on-at-the-patent-office/

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 12:21:55 am
content: There are a couple of interesting points lurking in the article, but it would take a few more revisions to shape them into a coherent essay:- For all their public charisma, even innovation leaders can be assholes.- Today's innovations are only possible because of yesterday's innovations (well no shit).- CEOs have employees, and don't actually do everything single-handedly (maybe some people think that Elon Musk is literally Tony Stark?).- While the private sector is capable of impressive accomplishments, the groundwork for those accomplishments is often laid by public sector investment in infrastructure, research that opens up new fields, and incentives that help stimulate growth in nascent markets.The last point is particularly important with some politicians in the US trying to second-guess the NSF, cut NASA's research in areas that are inconvenient for them, etc, and others who are incapable of understanding that sometimes the free market isn't the best route to prosperity.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 12:23:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 12:02:42 amYep,I'm afraid you're right.But to be fair, I doubt it's much better in most countries - it's just that it has become especially exaggerated and transparent in the US in recent years.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 02:00:49 am
content: Quote from: ajb on August 05, 2015, 12:21:55 amThat's the thing. Where did Must get all his rocket scientists?I'm betting that they aren't new graduates of the local rocket school.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 02:49:35 am
content: I can't find the article now (citation needed), but at one point I read that SpaceX was having problems with some sort of excessive force or turbulence or something that none of the engineers could figure out. When they brought on an old retired senior engineer from the NASA rocket days he immediately recognized the problem as something they studied and solved in the 60s. There are some wheels that are more painful to reinvent than others.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 03:41:59 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 04, 2015, 08:12:43 pmWhile it's hard to disagree with this statement, it should also be acknowledged that the public-sector also bought us expensive rockets that have zero hope for the expansion of human civilzation into the solar system. If that's not a goal, then fine. The "with enough time and money I can fix anything" approach will suffice.If it actuallyisthe goal, then a change of mindset is required. NASA, facing a budget crunch, flirted with the idea of bringing launch costs down with the shuttle, but (for many reasons) succeeded only in inventing the most expensive way of getting from A to B ever devised. ULA continues to provide a similar "service" with no end in sight. SpaceX would literally have to blow up 20 rockets to equal the loss of one Space Shuttle orbiter.Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 12:02:42 amImagine how frustrating it is to live in such a situation! I love my country, but it's not because I'm proud of the government or the political system. Very few of them really understand how important space access/travel/exploration is. NASA's budget is proof of this. After all, it's only the rest of the Universe, how important could it be? The dinosaurs at least had the excuse of being unable to ask the question.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 05:32:33 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 04, 2015, 09:36:38 pmYes, it's a common pattern among socialists to discount and demonize the achievements of successful individuals, corporations, countries and cultures.As for Musk, I don't appreciate his heavy reliance on government 'incentives' but I must say, he can make things happen and I respect him for that.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:25:21 am
content: Isn't the guy discussed in this topic, a banker that uses his dollars to buy himself a new image?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:59:21 am
content: My two cents of this article:I find it sad that only the one person of that organisation gets the credit. How nice it would have been if the engineers of all those disciplines wouldhave become the heroes and inspired next generations to study those difficult science studies that are so needed for our future.Think about the number of jobs involved:For any succesfull multi discipline multi billion $ company you only need one such narcist false profit, an "oracle": someone with charisma, the right connections,networking with banks and other investors, believed to be able to see and create the future (cough cough).But you need thousands of other employees which do the actual work.How sad that a society puts this one man on a pedistal so that our kids want to become such an a**hole and get their MBA or whatever instead of a science study.There is a remedy: higher salaries for good engineers ;-) Make those engineers the heroes instead of the lobbyists.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 09:00:02 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 05, 2015, 07:25:21 amNo. He has never been a banker. He is CEO of Solar City (makes solar panels) Tesla (makes EV cars and batteries for EV cars and for home and industrial use) and SpaceX (space launch company).Quote from: Kjelt on August 05, 2015, 07:59:21 amHe routinely credits (and even names) his engineers. The last stockholder meeting, he brought one up on stage to explain the finer points of something.Quote from: Kjelt on August 05, 2015, 07:59:21 amIf kids follow Elon Musk's example, they will get Physics degrees and become programmers. I'd be cool with that.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 02:08:22 pm
content: Did anyone actually think Musk designed any of his products*? The whole rant seems to be burning one massive, hastily erected strawman.*Or seeing as Jobs was brought up had talents beyond credit theft and marketing? TBH a rant like this aimed at Jobs would be more fitting without having to make up any BS about his popular image.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 02:48:57 pm
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on August 05, 2015, 09:00:02 amI think PayPal is very technically close to a bank, in the opinion of the US Government at least.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 03:06:05 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 05, 2015, 05:32:33 amAchievements of management aren't achievements. Wake me when he's actually done things, not just told other people to.(Actually, wake me when you know what a socialist is.)It is a similarly common pattern among corporatists to discount and demonize the role of the workers, and further to insist that having a modicum of respect for these workers is socialism.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 03:44:54 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on August 05, 2015, 03:06:05 pmWell, wake me when you set up and lead an organization that provides thousands of jobs and sends rockets to space.Musk >> c4757p.Quote from: c4757p on August 05, 2015, 03:06:05 pmNobody here discounting or disrespecting workers. It's in your mind. Recognizing achievement of person X doesn't mean we disrespect person Y. Musk had major achievements and I respect it. It doesn't mean that his workers didn't have achievements on their own. Achievement is not a zero sum game. Enough with the class envy.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 04:01:35 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 05, 2015, 05:32:33 amYou keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 04:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on August 05, 2015, 04:01:35 pmA quick Google search:so·cial·ist?s?SH?l?st/nounnoun: socialist; plural noun: socialists1.a person who advocates or practices socialism.synonyms: left-wing, progressive, leftist, labor, anti-corporate, antiglobalization; Moreantonyms: conservative

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 04:19:33 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 05, 2015, 04:05:35 pmCongratulations, you can use Google. Now correctly apply the word. Even better, learn what it really means - with a broader and deeper understanding than provided by one particular dictionary definition.You could start here:Libertarian Socialism

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 04:26:40 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on August 05, 2015, 03:44:54 pmI'm more interested in the people working those thousands of jobs and building the rockets. "Creating jobs" is boring. Sure, Musk has accomplished more than I have, but his employees have accomplished even more. I'm tired to death of hearing about him... let's hear about them a bit for once.Quote from: zaptaClass envy! That's a funny one. Whatever my emotions toward him may be, I promise you there is no envy.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 05:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on August 05, 2015, 04:19:33 pmThanks.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 05:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 05, 2015, 02:48:57 pmThey need a bank licence in NL from the Dutch national bank to operated so..

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 05:54:01 pm
content: My take.....Throw 100 of the worlds most capable coders in a room and say "GO!" Not much will happen. Add 1 visionary software architect to the mix and it will more likely produce something useful. Next, throw in someone that has a keen sense of what most people in the world need or desire and a reasonable understanding of what is possible with software - and you will be on the path for a world changing idea.On a forum of engineers, including myself, it is not going to be popular to describe engineers of all disciplines as 'paint' that are needed to paint a large scale solution that one person has visualized. Big things take teams of brilliant people that can sort out and solve huge numbers of complex issues. In general, for this to work - they need to be told what the problem is and what parameters and resources they have to solve it. It is the legwork of the bigger picture. Without the big picture visionary on a pedestal calling the shots, the designers and engineers applying all manner of cerebral prowess would be aimless and therefore get nothing useful done regardless of skill. I doubt that the ultra-smart aerospace trained engineer could put this team together to realize a bigger than life dream. I have not yet seen Elon Musk make claims that he designed every piece and part of his companies. It is very unique to have the vision of the future AND the skills to build and guide a team at this scale to make the vision a reality.This is not short-changing engineers. Imagine a world class orchestra with no sheet music in front of them. Mozart gets the credit because the orchestra is silent without his pieces of paper that layout his vision. I don't think even the best composer the world has ever known can play all the instruments needed to play the music they conceived.As for taking advantage of government incentives and buying defunct mega-factories super cheap is cunning brilliance. Why spend money when you don't need to? It large scale eBay and coupon shopping to kickstart a new business.For anyone that thinks this is all BS, go start a company and sell it for $billions, and then start a new car company and an f'ing rocket ship company.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 06:08:43 pm
content: I will concede that the "leaders" are important... if dreadfully boring, andnomoreimportant than the people they lead. We don't hear enough about the people who actuallydothe things the leaders tell them to do. Sure, they need someone commanding them in order for them to accomplish things that take multiple people, butfuckam I sick of hearing about these leaders all the time. The things the people under the leaders are doing are actuallyinteresting.Let's have fewer articles gushing about what a visionary Musk is (and sure, proportionally fewer articles ranting about how he's not), and see some articles about the technologies "his" people have invented. We have enough leader worship in the world as it is.It's fair to say that they are important, and I'll have to admit to a bit of an accidental strawman in thinking people here were implying the engineers werenot- but that is the impression that I get all the time from those who like to talk endlessly about how great leaders are and never mention the people they lead. A bit ofbalancewould be nice, FFS. Some of us really couldn't care less about "people issues" and just want to get to the meat of how things were done. Sadly, it seems that this will be forever limited to niche locations like this forum, the general populace will continue to be fed stories of great managers and never hear about great engineers.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 06:28:21 pm
content: I agree and would LOVE to learn more about how the accomplishments are actually achieved. The problem is that only a micro-spec of society is interested and capable of understanding any of it. It is much easier for general society that reads the news to wrap their hands around Elon than to wrap their heads around the practical challenges of shooting a rocket into space and docking with a space station travelling at MACH 25.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:15:14 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 05, 2015, 06:28:21 pmInterested I'd agree.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:31:40 pm
content: In reality, you need both the whacked out idea guy and the engineer (and someone with good business skills) to be equally important to have a successful company. It's like what the US President, House and Senate were intended to be when they created them. They are all important, have different roles, and they all keep each other in check. When you give the president too much power (like declaring war without congressional approval, or always parking in the handicap parking space) that's when things get out of wack.The glorious leader praise has a lot of parallel with science fiction authors. I think science fiction authors get WAY too much credit for thinking up how things are going to be in the future. Imagining how things might be in the future is the easy part. Actually making those things happen is just a little bit harder. If the science fiction author misplaces a period, the reader just skips over it. If an engineer misplaces a decimal point, things blow up and people might get killed.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:39:46 pm
content: I guess it seems pretty obvious to me that for any successful enterprise that relies on science and technology, it takes both excellent hands-on engineers and scientists as well as a leader with some vision and the skills to actually allow the magic to happen. Both are necessary and neither one is sufficient. Often the leader has the necessary technical chops to really have a hand in day to day technical decisions and sometimes they don't. Often when things are starting out they have hands on involvement but with success and growth the role of the leader by necessity becomes one of providing vision, inspiration and management.Lots of examples of this. Apple computer, Hewlett Packard, Intel, etc, etc - pretty much any large successful technical company. The same is true for basic science. Most renowned scientists eventually grow the size of their lab in proportion to their success and no longer are hands on but are simply managing and inspiring a group of graduate students and postdocs.Both are important. It's just that the leaders get the attention - both good and bad. This has always been true. It also seems true that the more innovative and successful they are the more they attract admirers and detractors.In case anyone has not seen this before, I think the video below gives a pretty good idea of who Musk really is:

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 07:50:44 pm
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 05, 2015, 05:54:01 pm*BINGO !

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 08:33:42 pm
content: Oh well what's worth I am glad there are still 60's proven technology russian rockets available to provide new supplies to the ISS, while those advanced "future" spaceX rockets still keep failing

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 08:38:28 pm
content: Every successful venture has a mix of people. At the top is usually the charismatic leader, who is the visionary that chooses the destination. In the supporting roles, there are the very technically able (engineers / scientists), those who focus on the finance side (accountants), and those who champion the vision and push it into the market (sales / marketing). It takes all competency in all four elements to successfully make things happen.Musk's space venture would be nothing without his engineers, and conversely, the engineers would not have a rocket to build without Elon. And so it goes for the other groups.A lot of the over-focus on Musk is related to the Media. Musk the Hero Technocrat Entrepreneur is a far easier story to write than the gory details of how a rocket makes it to space.

author: vvanders
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 11:40:02 pm
content: Keep in mind he also dumped millions of his dollars into spacex and Tesla almost to the point of bankruptcy.He could have very easily just lived on the interest.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2015, 11:51:02 pm
content: Quote from: vvanders on August 05, 2015, 11:40:02 pmThat is the single most important thing about Elon Musk. He had the balls to put his own money on the line.It's easy for anyone with an idea and a dream to do a startup and spend someone else's money. But few people put all their money on the line. That alone commands respect.There are countless people just as smart as Elon, with just as much drive, passion and vision. The difference is he got lucky with his early business ventures, got a huge wad of cash, and had the balls to bet it all on black.Make no mistake either, there would be no mythical Elon Musk, no Telsa and no Space-X if Musk didn't have that money to begin with to enable it all.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 12:01:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 11:51:02 pmIn a parallel universe....Elon Musk walks into a bank with a business plan and a loan application. "I want to get a loan for a rocket ship please", he says. The banker laughs as he pushes the young boy out the door. Elon replies, "...but I am smart, have passion, vision, and DRIVE!...Seriously, I can build a commercial space transportation system".Yep, I guess you need your own money for that big vision.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 12:46:24 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on August 05, 2015, 08:38:28 pmTherein lies the center of the problem here. I was once at a talk an astronaut (George Nelson) gave, and someone asked him why there was so much media focus on the Space Shuttle toilet. He said "Probably because it's something they can understand."The media likes to have a hero and/or a villain. They are in the newsbusiness. I.e., they have to package their stories such that the consumers want to consume it. So everything is a crisis or a controversy.Media reporting of the space sector alone would improve immensely if they made reporters spend one lousy day playing "Kerbal Space Program."

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 02:59:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 11:51:02 pmTry to raise a significant amount of money. It's not that easy.Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 11:51:02 pmHis multiple successes suggest to me that it may be more than just luck. Same applies to Steve Jobs.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 03:58:04 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 06, 2015, 02:59:45 amI agree that raising startup capital is not easy. Earning $billions of your own from scratch is substantially harder. I have been trying for a while now to earn a few $billion, and so far, no luck. Gonna have to stick with banks, leases, and VC's. Sucks, right?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 04:29:59 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 06, 2015, 03:58:04 amGood luck. Anything of interest for people here?As for Musk, he worked his way up in small increments. His first startup got him a measly $22Mhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#Zip2He is a serial entrepreneur.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 08:54:40 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on August 05, 2015, 05:54:01 pmThrow in a banker too, to get everything payed.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 09:55:35 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 06, 2015, 04:29:59 amWell I give him credit for that, I suspect 95% maybe more of the (not self) employed engineers on this forum would take that money, retire and do electronics for their hobby. Perhaps a small business as hobby on the side, but never invest all 100% gambling on loosing everything and have to apply for a job to become an employee again.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 10:27:57 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 06, 2015, 02:59:45 amSure, but it's what peopledothese days. Hardly anyone puts up their own money any more, let alone practicallyallof it to the tune of $100M.Quote from: EEVblog on August 05, 2015, 11:51:02 pmIIRC Paypal was not doing great financially, and ebay bought them out fairly cheaply in the scheme of things at the time.Someone else could have come along at any time and pipped PayPal for six leaving them worthless.I'm not saying it was all luck, of course not, but some luckalwaysplays a part in any success story.There are countless people that had a better idea and better products and worked harder and were smarter businessmen than Musk, but many of them luck-out and never get the financial reward Musk did. As mentioned, PayPal actually got bought cheaply for $1.4BN. Not a Nest-like lucky dip of $3.2BNSame for Telsa and Space-X. They were both on the verge of bandruptcy, as in weeks away for Tesla, before the 4th Space-X rocket finally worked and they got the NASA contract days later. That saved Space-X and Tesla. If that rocket failed, it's likely this thread would never have started.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 10:36:49 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 06, 2015, 09:55:35 amThe thing is once you get that money and a name for yourself, it gets easier to get money. If Space-X and Tesla had failed (as they were on the verge of doing), Musk could still walk into any VC and get a chunk of cash for the next venture. The serial entrepreneurs know this, and hence are more willing to gamble it all, but most don't, they like to blow other people's money not their own.This is Musk's biggest strength, as being the biggest shareholder because he put his own money in, it puts him in a position to execute things however he wants. That's important for a company like Space-X that literally is rocket science. If Musk had no share in Space-X and used all other people's money, the VC's would make him do things too safe and rigid etc that would probably be more likely than not to guarantee ultimate company failure.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 07:10:02 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2015, 10:27:57 am"Elon Musk’s Space Dream Almost Killed Tesla"http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-elon-musk-spacex/

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 07:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2015, 10:27:57 amYes, this. Absolutely.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2015, 09:09:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2015, 10:36:49 amThat has been Donald Trump's modus operandi from day 1. In Trump's case, he had Daddy's name and money.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2015, 09:12:59 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on August 06, 2015, 09:09:49 pmDonald's brother Fred Jr Trump also had Daddy's name and money.Turned out a littlebit different.Quote from: EEVblog on August 06, 2015, 10:27:57 amAlso the other way around: Without serious efforts and ambition, you can't have luck.Who again said it? How can you make it if you never even try.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2015, 09:23:12 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 07, 2015, 09:12:59 amYou can per definition always have luck since luck has no preferences.I myself have a large aversion against the popular "if you really want you can make it" prophecies that gains popularity the last decade. I agree that if you do nothing the chance is small you will have everything. But even if you do everything within your powers it is still a small chance you end up with everything.Only the ones that make it end up in the picture inspiring others to try to do the same thing, what is forgotten that for every person that really makes it, there are thousands that never will, and that should also be good enough.A normal life with a family and a normal job, nothing wrong with that. Too bad those normal people do not get in to the picture (except Dave ofcourse). Youth all dreaming to become rockstars, moviestars or models while only 0.001% will ever become that (and regret it later on in life).

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2015, 11:55:20 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 07, 2015, 09:12:59 amSome people are much better than others taking advantage of opportunities that luck brings.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2015, 02:53:35 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 07, 2015, 09:12:59 am"The harder I work, the luckier I get". Trump said that, attributing the origin of it to a golf player who exercised hard to win.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 11:46:18 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 07, 2015, 09:23:12 amWhy do you give him as example? I think there's not too much normal in his life, being the most known EE in the world, being in a healthy shape, doing also outdoor adventures and sports, having published books and articles in his youth of both EE and other domains,...Looks more like a life those selfmade multimillionaires have/had.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 11:59:43 am
content: Well before a couple of years he shot his vblog's he had a pretty normal EE career and family life and at the look of it he still has. I don't see him driving a ferrari and sitting behind a desk controlling a company with 1000 peopleHe just got one student employee now. He still gets home on time for dinner with the family as normal people do.He can answer for himself but I still regard Dave as a family man.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 12:13:05 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 07, 2015, 09:12:59 amOf course, you can't become become the founder of Space X and Tesla and PayPal by luck.You can win lotto by pure luck, but not much else.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 12:27:28 pm
content: Whatever side of the fence you sit on here about articles like this, or on the fence, the headline of this article will make you so furious you'll want to self harm, you have been warned:http://fortune.com/2015/07/29/ubeam-meredith-perry-wireless-charging/

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 12:41:08 pm
content: So long as they do not use My money they are welcome to the delusions they believe in.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 01:17:30 pm
content: They had better called it brainless charging

author: Bob F.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2015, 01:18:13 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 08, 2015, 12:27:28 pmI think there may be something wrong with me: I laughed myself silly instead.To paraphrase Stephen Fry: there is simply not enough vomit in the world to respond adequately to such arse-gravy.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 08:26:57 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on August 08, 2015, 11:59:43 amThat's all part of the media campaign, most Ferrari owners put it in the garage of one of their country cottages...He even owns Multimillion company Batteriser, behind the scenes :-)

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 08:29:42 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 08, 2015, 12:13:05 pmI can't. Except when someone puts my name on his lotto paper by accident.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2015, 09:34:12 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on August 10, 2015, 08:29:42 amI have been very lucky with the lotto, mainly because Ithuba has so few outlets, and they are so regularly off line when I do chance across one. Hoever, on the last ticket I won $2 on a $1 ticket. The local post office used to do lotto, but the new operator did not give them a machine, and the other post office has a machine, but it has been broken ( Eish, Ungaas lutho when tata ma chance will be talking again mlungu) for the last 2 months.........

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 04:51:07 am
content: Musk's latest hobby, barnstorming:

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 07:22:29 pm
content: For the most part......I want to be Elon pretty bad.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 01:38:02 am
content: Checked the writer's bio, and (no surprise) they are on staff at Slate, where your feelings are news.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 03:18:34 am
content: Quote from: zapta on August 12, 2015, 04:51:07 amFoe $650, you too can "barnstorm" a la Elon. It's just a ride at an airport in England.

author: djacobow
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 04:00:56 am
content: Actually, Solar City is also very close to being a bank.Solar City does not make solar panels. It installs them. But more importantly, it _owns_ them. You pay them monthly for the the energy, less than you would for utility power, but more than if you owned them yourself. But you don't have to get any of your own cash involved. That's the business model.It is a finance operation, first and foremost.Quote from: LabSpokane on August 05, 2015, 02:48:57 pm

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 07:37:17 am
content: That's a good point, and it should remind us that there is not that much that is fundamentally new. General Motors also had a finance subsidiary (GMAC) that became nearly as large as the manufacturing arm of the company. They were also involved in mortgages and derivatives, making GM (prior to the bailout) in some sense a bank.