Any networking gurus? I need some help. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:27:18 am
content: Copied this from my tomshardware post as that place seems a little slow. hardware wise and software wise with computers I'm pretty well set off but I haven't delved much into networking, and this is one thing that is proving troublesome."Hey all, something which has plagued me for a long time, I have an hp proliant dl380, a sexy little quad core xeon blade server, with a wireless card in it, and two LAN ports built into the motherboard.I also have an old AXIS 2401+ video server and a couple old CCTV cameras, and want to use one to monitor where my server is stored.The problem lies that the only way to get to the network from my garage is wireless, and the video server will have to be in the garage with the actual server.When connected to the main router I can (or was able to, it's been a while) get the video server page and a camera feed no problem, but when using it directly with the computer I can not access it.I have tried direct ethernet connection, and also going through a hub (with the hub using the computer as WAN source, and using the video server as WAN source), and tried all methods bridging my wireless and wired networks, and can't get the dang thing to work.What can I do?edit: after a bit more fiddling I got the router working, changed it's IP over, thanfully it let me so it's alongside wireless just fine now, now I just need to get the video server to show up, I have tried it plugged in as WAN source, and alongside the server on another port, this router doesn't seem to have a device list though so trying to figure out how I can find it's IPBasically I want to be able to forward this page or something, maybe using xampp or some other web hosting stuff. (which I can figure out"The router I have is pretty old, I have what I think is a newer one, I'm going to crack it open and wire in a power supply with a 5 volt regulator and try that, I am going to be up all night so I might just drive on over lol.Just wondering if anyone here has any ideas? The only thing I can think of is using a wireless router with DDWRT to act as a rebroadcasting station and maybe that will allow me to hook in with Ethernet so it shows as on the main network but I don't think that will work, and I don't have any wireless routers. as you can probably tell I'm throwing this together with scrap stuff XDedit: yeah, this linkysys nr041 is at least 3 years newer, and has an uplink mode, maybe that will help *shrugs*

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:20:29 am
content: Well none of my wall warts could provide 700ma, so I found this small power supply, it throws out 12v at 1 amp, and 5v at 1.5 amps, and funnily enough it's from an old fairly large (I think 64 port) Ethernet hub, I have a couple though one is mysteriously dead, but I've got it ghetto rigged up so it's all set to go lol, just need to test it out whenever I feel like heading out.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:43:30 am
content: I hope you put something thick and insulating under that PCB. That looks seriously dangerous. You have rectified mains voltage on the back of that power supply board taped to a metal box!Seriously, put the power supply in an insulated box before you kill yourself.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:44:14 am
content: Who needs earth wires.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 09:24:37 am
content: Quote from: Codemonkey on June 28, 2014, 08:43:30 amIt's insulated, I seriously doubt anyone on these forums would tape a bare circuit board to a metal box, I'm offended that you think I would.Anyways, it seems that the Ethernet cord I have is either defective, or more likely a crossover cable, and I can't find another one

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 09:43:09 am
content: I worked on a system that used pairs of DDWRT bridges.We had to do a fiddle to get the bridges working though.Everything had to use DHCP. This was not because we couldn't figure out what address to use but because it helped the DDWRT routers setup their ARP tables.We then had to set the DHCP server to give the some bits of equipment fixed leases on their IP Addresses. This was so important IP addresses didn't float around.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 12:20:11 pm
content: Found another cable, went back, swapped the ones between the server and the axis box, and it works! (also used the first router, as the axis box wasn't getting an IP on the ghetto one) I have video! (recorded a video to upload about it but figured eh, whats the point).Anyways now I just need to fix the loose BNC from someone yanking the cord on the cam, and I also need to figure out a bit more networking stuff, whenever I have LAN plugged in the computer uses that as it's main network, however I want the wireless to be the main one so that it can access the internet and have LAN purely for the video camera, I'm still trying to figure out how to do that.edit: fixed the camera, the metal frame was frickin bent the cord was pulled so hard and the BNC retaining ring that the clip slid into had broken off, I'm amazed I got video out of it.No BNC's around so I used the gen lock one, and worked like heck to bend the frame and get it to fit in. Still a bit crooked but it should work fine now, never going to need gen lock anyways. Camera is a Panasonic Super Dynamic wv-cp450

author: nihilism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 12:43:56 pm
content: Electrical safety obviously is not a priority in Canada.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 01:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 09:24:37 amStill the tape you use is not enough by far. The word inadequate doesn't even cover it. With this setup you really are asking to receive a Darwin award.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 01:49:39 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 28, 2014, 01:44:55 pmI think three layers of electrical tape is plenty for a short term solution.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 01:52:22 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 01:49:39 pmI think you're nuts. Put something solid in there. A piece of scrap plastic, some fibreglass, even a bit of old breadboard (and I mean BREAD board, as in kitchen).

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 01:55:47 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 01:52:22 pmOnce again, temporary, had it running a couple hours, maximum to see if that router would work the way I needed it. Three layers of tape, no excessively sharp leads or solder joints, and minimal pressure pulling the board down. It did not, it is no longer in service.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:03:03 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 12:20:11 pmI assume that you're running DHCP on your router. That's also the default setting for your computer. If you connect any of your computer's network interfaces to the LAN the OS will try to get an IP address (plus GW, DNS) via DHCP. Connect another interface and it will get another address. It might be possible that the GW of the new interface will overwrite the former one or that you end with multiple gateway addresses. Either disable the ethernet interface if you prefer WLAN or set some fixed IP address.Your first post is a little bit unclear about how you connected the servers in the garage to your LAN. Have you tried to use another WLAN router as WLAN client for the video server and used the internal WLAN card of the other server? As usual a diagram would have been helpful

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:10:58 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2014, 02:03:03 pmI should get a graphical network mapping tool or something, can't recall what it is but theres a good one.Alright, so my blade server is the main thing, the PC where everything is happening, it is connected via wireless to the home router.The axis video server is a standalone box, no operating system or anything, just a video input/output, Ethernet, and terminal blocks for power and camera controls.I have the dlink hub set up, with (when connected) both the blade server and the video server box just plugged into a couple ports, nothing on the internet port.The default IP is different, so the wireless router is set to 192.168.0.1 and the hub that I access the video server through is 192.168.1.1, no IP conflicts due to this so that works fine, and if I put in the IP address for it, I can get to it no problem, get the video page and feed.I'm going to try and find a good tool to make a diagram, easier than text. I do believe that it is prioritizing LAN, however in the advanced adapter settings wireless is set as the first but I think it may change when I have wired plugged in, I have to check.I have also found a post about changing the adapter metric, but I think I need to reinstall the drivers as it gives me an error when trying to access the internet protocol 4 properties to change this. I'll have to check both of these out when I go there next.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on June 28, 2014, 09:43:09 amBridging two LANs via WLAN with consumer access points is a lot of funFor OpenWrt the best method is to setup a WDS AP and a WDS client AP. I think that should also work for ddwrt, since both are linux based and face the same bridging issue. Some WLAN chipsets allow the required bridging to be done inside the chip but it has also to be supported by the driver.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:24:12 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 02:10:58 pmI see. The simple solution is to give your main router a second LAN address (from 192.168.1.0/24). BTW, hubs don't have IP addresses

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2014, 02:24:12 pmIt is a router, I just slipped up, this doesn't work with hubs, not sure if that affects your answer or not, but I'm not quite sure how that would help.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:44:33 pm
content: This is the network setup.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:50:37 pm
content: No, that's a simplification which misses out all the important parts: The wireless.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:53:06 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 02:50:37 pmIt's a wireless connection, what more do you want? that's not where the issue lies. The issue is using that as the primary connection while having the wired router plugged in.This is exactly how it's set up anyways, aside from another computer on wireless which doesn't matter. Wireless to server, second router directly wired up.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:54:51 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 02:53:06 pmIt will cause you issues if you want to access anything on the other side of that Blade from your home network.As far as the primary connection stuff goes, well, it might, just a little bit, help if you tell us what OS you're using.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 02:54:51 pmWindows server 2008 R2 (edit): though I don't imagine it will have any special tools or services relating to this that regular old windows 7 wouldn't, never say anything relating to this type of networking when choosing services to install.

author: abaxas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:56:09 pm
content: Just to get this right.The blade server is connected to the home network via wireless and the dlink router via cable?So basically you have two different networks with no connection between them.

author: at2marty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 04:02:06 pm
content: Quote from: abaxas on June 28, 2014, 02:56:09 pmThat's my suspicion as well. The blade server in this scenario needs to be configured to allow requests from the home network to/from the video server.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 04:03:02 pm
content: YESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Plugged it in, manually defined metrics, and I can now (and currrently am) use the internet and have my video working! WHOOO!!!It just needed a little help to know which network to try firstNow I just need to forward the IP from the sub network, through my server, to the main network and then allow it to go through the router firewall. I might be able to use xampp/apache the same way I did my dayz server. We'll see.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 05:13:44 pm
content: Alright, so this is the network so far.The green lines are able to be directly accessed from the internet through the main router (With the ip range of 192.168.0.x) The blue is the router and subnet of 192.160.6.x, and only accessible from the server. What I want to do is forward the video server through the subnet router, to the main router, and then forward that to the internet, represented by the red line. How I can do this however, is tricky, since the main router can not see the secondary router. and thus can not forward it or any of it's IP's to the internet.

author: at2marty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 05:33:18 pm
content: O.K. I'll try to decipher exactly what you are trying to accomplish.Essentially, you want to expose your video server to the internet, is that correct?You also want to be able to access your video server from your home network, is that correct?What you want is a DMZ (google it).Keep in mind and be aware, exposing a computer on your home network to the internet is not the smartest thing in the world to do, especially if you are exposing it with common ports wide open (http port 80 as an example). You really need to know what you are doing, which it sounds like you don't.I will tell you this. Expose an improperly configured web server without proper safeguards and protection to the internet, and I estimate that you will be lucky of you don't have some kind of intrusion or attempt within 5 minutes.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 05:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: at2marty on June 28, 2014, 05:33:18 pmI will only be allowing the ports it needs through (though I am unsure what ports it does use, don't think it's available in the documentation), I have decent experience port forwarding a few different things from my main server without any issue, and those are somewhat obscure ports, I would just need to chose another obscure one for the video server I imagine. I can do that no problem but you are right, I don't really know what to do to accomplish this with this network setup.Accessing the video from the home network is not as important as I do not live there anymore, but it is probably a step along the way to being able to access it from the web.

author: at2marty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 06:12:47 pm
content: What specific OS is the video server running and what specific program?What specific OS is your other server running?Ideally, you want to remove the "main server" from where it's at, and install a computer to act as a firewall. If it was me, it would be a Linux computer with two network cards. You also want to ditch the second router and install a switch.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 06:20:55 pm
content: Quote from: at2marty on June 28, 2014, 06:12:47 pmMain server is windows server 2008 r2, the video server is not an actual computer, like I said, it is a small dedicated box that just has a web page with the video feed on it. I need the second router because the only internet access in the garage is through wireless.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:01:59 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 06:20:55 pmYou don't need a router for that.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:24:49 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 07:01:59 pmA couple of powerline networking adapters like the XET1001 and a switch will make your life way easier

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:43:04 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 07:01:59 pmIn this case I do, since the video server needs to acquire an IP address to work, directly hooking it up did not work.Quote from: miguelvp on June 28, 2014, 07:24:49 pmI have a couple but unfortunately the garage is on a different circuit, and they don't work. Believe me I wish they did, would be a stable connection at least lol.edit: just bridged the connections on the server, and the ip address is showing up under the main router, so I think it might be working!edit2: damn, since doing that I can't get into the video server page. hrmmm It also says that IP is invalid for port range forwarding, I'll try changing the subnet for the dlink router.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 07:43:04 pmAnd what's wrong with the router on the other side of the wireless?

author: jlmoon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:47:06 pm
content: Anything with a IP address in the public network is hackable, if that video server has a web service protocol it will only be a mater of time before it will be discovered. Looks like you only need one subnet with a sonic firewall, dmz's and some understanding on how to apply subnetting with /0, /128 or smaller.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 07:58:12 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 07:46:19 pmIt's not where the camera needs to physically be.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:09:49 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 07:58:12 pmAnd that matters.. why? Bridge the wireless to wired. You'll need WDS.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 08:09:49 pmThat's what this whole thread is about, I've gotten to bridging, I am just working on getting the forwarding now.Side note: found a zoomable lens (only manual) from an black and white camera, but still has active iris, and works a treat, will be nice to have a bit of a closer view.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 08:11:55 pmIf it were properly bridged it'd just be working!Get an actual wireless bridge or an OpenWRT supported AP or router.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:18:49 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 28, 2014, 08:12:44 pmExcept those are not options. I have the server, the household router, the secondary router and the video server, that's it. That is all the equipment I have, that is all the equipment I can get.If I bridge them using windows with a different subnet mask, I lose internet access though windows says have it, if I use the same subnet mask, I can access both. but internet is brought to a crawl, and I can't forward the IP properly.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:52:32 pm
content: Found options hidden away in the video server so I was able to manually define the port it uses (and also change video size, which may be really nice, hard to see quality over remote desktop), anyways I think if I bridge connections now forwarding might work, going to give it a try and hopefully I can still connect to the computer.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 08:58:23 pm
content: I think the main problem is the way the garage's network is connected to the main router. I that right, that the garage is connected to the main router via the server's WLAN card and that the second router and the video box are connected to the server? And the server is bridging the LAN to the WLAN or does it route the traffic? A simple design would be to connect the second router to the main router and to place the server and the video box behind the second router. Using a Windows server as router or firewall is a bad idea.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 09:04:37 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2014, 08:58:23 pmYes, you have it correct, I am trying to get the server to route traffic from the second router to the main one, I am getting close to that. I think I just need to find the main routers external IP (I was able to do that with an old SaskTel one but now we have a cisco one, which barely loads the page half the time) and it should be all set. I bridged connections and I think it took down the internet for that computer, possibly not, but I'm not sure what IP to try with the port I set to access the video server.Unfortunately I can't connect the second router to the main one was it does not have wireless, so I couldn't use DDWRT to do that.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 09:38:58 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 09:04:37 pmIf I had to choose between buying an inexpensive access point or spending some time to setup a Windows Server as a router, the decision would be a no-brainerHave you enabled RRAS on the server?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 09:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 28, 2014, 09:38:58 pmNot sure, I doubt it but I will give that a try next time I'm there, won't be too long since I'm moving and using the garage as storage.Here's a video on the server setup, it's a bit old, and I think I made a mistake thinking the two 3.2ghz xeons stacked to 6.4, can't recall lol. I also sold the tower style server, and the batteries on the UPSes finally died off completely.That dell machine is also out of the picture.Be warned, shaky video, took this a long time ago before I started watching youtubers.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 11:03:50 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 09:50:05 pmIf only stacking processors like that were as easy.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 08:41:41 am
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on June 28, 2014, 11:03:50 pmYeah lol, would be nice XD

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 11:56:58 am
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 28, 2014, 09:50:05 pmBefore that, please readhttp://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd458979.aspxto get an idea about RRAS. And if you feel the sudden urge to get an access point, don't hesitate

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 12:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 29, 2014, 11:56:58 amAlright, hopefully it's not too complex lol, I feel like I'm super close, I can forward the IP of the video server, I just don't have a way to find out it's external IP since it doesn't have an operating system, can you think of anything?

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 12:58:20 pm
content: Have a look at the bottom right hand corner of your last post.Or am I missing something?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 01:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on June 29, 2014, 12:58:20 pmKind of, the video server is what I need the external IP of, not my actual sever, however since it's just a box that hosts a web page, I can't browse the web through it and so I can't easily find it's external IP. I have it's IP and port forwarded in the router, I just don't know what the external IP address will be specifically :/

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 01:33:25 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on June 29, 2014, 01:26:16 pmThe same as the external IP for any other device behind that (NAT) router.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 01:39:03 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 29, 2014, 01:33:25 pmHmm, I'll give it a try with that then, I thought I had but I made have mistyped the port or something.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 09:10:58 pm
content: The fundamental point when you are connected to the internet is to sit behind a separate firewall.The ONLY exception is roaming with your laptop when conditions are slightly different.You should never ever use your data server as your primary firewall.Those functions that you wish to be accessible from the outside need to be in a DMZ, i.e. a separate network segment with severely restricted access via a primary firewall, or via specific unit designed for secure access. Furthermore the machines in the DMZ should not be able to initiate a connection to the internal network.In order to achieve securely this you must have a range of static IP addresses.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 09:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: Dave Turner on June 29, 2014, 09:10:58 pmI'm not hosting any data on it, just a Dayz server to mess around with (since you can do some interesting stuff compared to single player) or a minecraft server if I get back into that. I do have this server and the axis box set as static IP's right now. packing for the move is getting escalated so I doubt I will be able to try anything out for a while.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2014, 03:35:17 am
content: Hey all, needing to use this as a security cam for real now, someone has been dumping trash on our property in the back alley.I have a filezilla server set up, and can connect with the client however I am working on setting it up on the axis box, I am just doing it locally, so 127.0.0.1 is the main address, and through the router it will need to be 192.168.0.100, however I am wondering what the actual upload path needs to be. The default is the ip followed by /ftp/upload, is that correct? It does not seem to be working, since the video server is not connecting to the filezilla server, I'm not even seeing an attempted connection though the video server's network connection and the router's network lights are going crazy (which is a good sign so far lol)

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2014, 05:11:20 am
content: oooh! oooh! oooh!I poked around in the HTML, and found the direct link for the video feed, and with that, yawcam software sees it as an IP camera! And that software has motion detection! WHOOOOOOOOO!!!I bet it's FTP will be usable, or maybe it even has direct saving. I'm going to drive on back and play with this some more instead of over teamviewer (since I can't turn the lights on from here)

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2014, 06:44:26 am
content: *happy dance*Perfect! the motion detection works great, I bumped the video resolution up (an amazing 704 x 480!) and took off encoding, it's a little slow, but it should be more than good enough to read plates from the back alley, plus yawcam does just have the option to save an image (500ms seems to be the best workable option, maybe with a USB webcam it would work faster, but this is alright), and email notification with the images as well, so within around two minutes, usually closer to one, I get an email a load of images, seems to be set to around 30 right now. Sure it's no live feed, but this is one step better.