Guide PC210 Review - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 06:40:21 pm
content: Hello,I have seen here a few informations about the PC210 from GuideIR but not a full review... So I decided to write one.Let's have a look on the specs:256x192 Pixels resolution (plenty for the price)Field of view: 56° x 48° (very wide - so great for indoor building thermography but not ideal for PCB work)Minimum object distance: 0.3mNETD: 45mK (really great compared to leading brands like Flir, Fluke or Testo but standard in many chineese brands)Infrared frame rate: 25Hz (really great compared to leading brands like Flir, Fluke or Testo but standard in many chineese brands)Focus-freeThe camera has a mechanical shutter (this let the camera freeze 1 or 2 times per minute for a moment while doing the NUC)Allows thermal video when connected to a PCPrice: 340 EUR + VAT (very affordable)(for all details see:https://www.guideir.com/products/thermographys-tools/pc/data_23.html)The first things that strike me is the build quality - the IR camera feels well build. The camera-body is rubberized and the camera feels good in the hand. I am pretty sure you can handle the tool also well while wearing gloves!I love that the camera offers a dayligth-camera as well as a flashlight an a laser pointer. I have not seen that on this price-range. But this features we will discuss in greater detail later on...Next positive thing is the very fast bootup-time. I know the InfiRay C210 and the Hikmicro Pocket2 - both need much longer to be ready.After booting up the image-quality looks impressive. The images are very crisp and the iron-palette is very vibrant and gives a great contrast:Next thing I tested was the close-up capability with and without a 50.8mm ZnSe lens:without ZnSe lenswith ZnSe lensThe ZnSe lens and the holder are not included in the package abut you can buy them from some websites or simply 3D-print your own... For PSC-work the FOV is very wide. I would rather go with a narrower FOV for that. In this case thePC230would be the better option. As I have a Pocket2 which I prefer for that kind of work because of the touchscreen and the smaller weight which allow me to use it on a goose-neck. I have bought the PC210 for it's wider FOV to use it for indoor thermography!The camera offers 4 imaging modes - thermal only, visual only, PIP and MIF (Multi Image Fusion - which is very similiar to MSX from Flir)Thermal onlyMIFThe camera offers for thermal imaging 2 ranges: -20°C till 150°C and 100°C till 550°C. When using the wrong range you will get a clear warning:This is the same behavior as the Pocket2. The InfiRay C210 which I had borrowed to test it for my book was not that polite and just displayed 176°C which is a very bad thing in my opinion as you could easiely mistake the 176°C for a correct reading... So I am very glad the PC210 does give a propper warning!The selection of palettes is OK but there could be a few more. The menu-system is very streight forward. The language-options are chineese and english, which should be no problem for the most of us.The analysis-software is solid and allows to generate reports if that's a important to someone. I would rate it worster then Hikmicro but better then Infiray... (see the comments below)The runtime of the rechargeable battery is very good. The half charged camera lasted the whole afternoon till now (20:26 or 8:26pm in my timezone) testing and playing arround.The bad and the guly:After so much positive points let's come to the nagtive ones...First on my list is the video recording. If you switch the USB-mode in the menu to "Presentation" the PC210 will start to act as a webcam. So I tryed to capture the video-feed with the windows camera-tool but the video was upside down and mirrored also. OK - so I tested VLC and the image was distorted and the feed was very laggy. I asked the support and I got the answer I should test PotPlayer.Ok with that programm I could get the video-feed running and I could record video im MKV format. There is no radiometric data in the video but that is nothing you would find at this price-point. Radiometric videos would be even hard to find for 10x the price of a PC210. So video recording works but it feels like this feature is still in beta-state.It would be great if I could use it with the windows tool instead of using some other software. The analysis-software has a video-feature as well but I could not connect to the PC210. That would be also a better option. I guess it would not be that much work to add option to the Guide-software to read the webcam video-feed of a PC210!The camera does a decent job setting the level and span (better then the Pocket2 but the Pocket2 has one-touch Level and Span and a manual setting also). I did the good old test with a pot of hot water:Auto-Level and Auto-SpanManually set to 60-80°CYou can see a reasoable amount of contrast in the water (this is a nice example of convection by the way) but after finetuning the Level and Span to the temperatures in the water in the analysis-software the whole pattern is much better visible. So manual Level and Span is a really handy feature and for me a must have! So I am really glad the support told me how to find it - I would really wish someone would have spend the time to write a longer manual for the camera which show how to access and use all features...As you see after editing the images loose their overlay data and they shrink in size. That makes the analysis-software a bit worster then the software from Hikmicro. But not many users of cameras in this price-range will need a tool to write reports. This would more hurt the users of higher end cameras.The flashlight is not ideal as it works - see next post.Guide please fix that in the next firmware update. This behaviour is great for the laser but it is carp for the flashlight-LED. Activate the laser when pulling the trigger but switch the LED on when I activate it in the menu. Please!I will come to conculsions after using the camera for a while longer and I will keep you updated if some other things come up...

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2022, 07:33:31 am
content: I found out that the flashlight comes on fast enough to illuminate scene for the daylight camera if you press the trigger guite fast...I guess this can be a very easy fix in firmware. When I activate the flash-light option in the menu the LED stay off. Is get just activated when I pull the trigger. That is inconvinient as I would have to hold the trigger always to use the camera as a torch or I need to have a real torch in the other hand... I would wish there are 3 options for the flashlight - off, activated by trigger and always on.When I press the trigger slowly the flashlight comes on a fraction of a second to late so that it basically did nothing for the daylight-camera. So slow and steady triggering will not work but faster pressing will. This make the feature useable somehow but still far from ideal. I don't like to press the trigger very fast to avoid camera shake. A slow and steady press of the trigger will often result in sharper images.This is with a 25Hz camera not that critical as with a 9Hz one but still I would rather go slow and steady.But I have also more great news - the camera does support manual Level & Span. If you hold the Menu-button pressed for aprox. 3 seconds you get another menu...Manual Level and SpanAfter long pressing the Menu-button a big letter appears in the left upper corner of the display:Automatic Level & SpanManual Level & SpanManual Span & Auto LevelThe way to set the manual Level and Span is a bit unconventional. You can shift both values up or down with the +/+ and -/- button. With the -/+ and +/- buttons you can shift the values further appart or closer to each other. This looks confusing on the first glance but after using it 2 or 3 times you get used to the way it works.I am really glad this option is there - this make the camera in my opinion a much better deal then a InfiRay C200/C210, UniT UT260B, ...

author: BmaxTom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2022, 06:04:26 pm
content: The manual mode only works properly from firmware version V1.3.6.20220520.https://eleshop.eu/guide-ir-pc210-thermal-imaging-camera.html

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2022, 06:18:29 pm
content: Thanks for the info but I had no issue before the update.What was the problem?

author: BmaxTom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2022, 06:33:46 pm
content: In M mode, the scaling of the temperature scale on the right is wrong.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-thermal-camera-anyone-familiar-with/msg4128304/#msg4128304

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2022, 07:15:46 pm
content: OK I did not recall that issue but maybe I have overlooked it as it was quite close. Not when I check my images displaying the feature you are right - the image does not match...

author: Shadar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 22, 2022, 09:28:56 am
content: Hi guys. I don’t know whether it may be of interest to anyone but there is a big sale going on on AliExpress atm. It will last for a couple of days. If you combine the sale and 12% discount code from hotukdeals you can get the imager with a very significant discount. I just ordered mine for £247. There may be VAT charges on import on the UK side when the item arrives but even then it should stay below £300.￡275.00 36％ Off | Guide PC210 Thermal imaging camera Thermal imager infrared camera Digital thermometer Night vision Infrared thermometerhttps://a.aliexpress.com/_mPCyCg8

author: jweaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 09:53:36 pm
content: Or even better this onehttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004183056641.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.64d91802YYg0A7I paid £258 for mine a few weeks back and it was delivered today, but I see its £238 now with free shipping.. And if the HotUKDeals voucher works (I didn't know about this when I ordered) it would take it down to £210..

author: Liam G
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 02:27:58 pm
content: Hi,Fellow PC210 owner here- Thanks tomarkb1980for the info/review. You make mention of a50.8mm ZnSe lens- is this the focal-length you would recommend for this camera, for pcb viewing? Also, can you recommend a cheap/reliable supplier of such macro lenses? I only need the round lens because I can easily make an adapter/bracket myself.Thanks.

author: jweaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 02:44:57 pm
content: I ordered my lens from eBay for £12 herehttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175179859366?var=474381676952..I have 3D printed the mount and am now waiting on the lens.. Depending on how I get on with it, I might buy the 101.6mm which is slightly more expensive at £13.19

author: Liam G
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 04:31:27 pm
content: Quote from: jweaver on August 28, 2022, 02:44:57 pmThanks. Do you know if there is any difference between IR Cam macro lenses and the ones made for CO2 Laser Engraver Cutting Machines? Are they made to the same standard?

author: jweaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 01:37:36 pm
content: I literally have no idea.. But I assume that for our application the quality is less important as we are only resolving a relatively low resolution.. So I figured the cheapest was best.. But I could be wrong.

author: BmaxTom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 06:17:28 pm
content: The pictures are made with the cheap lenses for CO2 Laser Engraver and Cutting Machineshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/what-macro-lens-for-the-guideir-pc210/msg4367173/#msg4367173

author: jweaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 08:04:13 pm
content: Has anyone worked out what the "Distance" setting does? I assumed it was paralax correction between the IR and Visible cameras, but changing it appears to do nothing..And on the same subject, what about the "ReflMeasure" setting.. At default its 23 degrees, but I have changed it and can't work out what it does.Anyone got a clue?Jon

author: Shadar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 04:07:15 pm
content: Quote from: jweaver on August 23, 2022, 09:53:36 pmGood find! Hope mine will arrive soon

author: wmattias
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 12:14:49 pm
content: Where did you find the STL/CAD files for the mount?

author: BmaxTom
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 04:00:30 pm
content: Do you mean the lens holder for the macro lens?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-thermal-camera-anyone-familiar-with/msg4111042/#msg4111042Quote from: wmattias on September 07, 2022, 12:14:49 pm

author: c00kemon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 09:32:03 am
content: I noticed that pc210 gives measurement accuracy errors when examining outdoors with an ambient temperature close to 0 and below. However, none of the settings help to fix this. I wrote to support about this and they answered me that this is an entry-level thermal imager and the measurement error is +-2% only at an ambient temperature of 23 C °. These thermal imagers are calibrated only under these conditions. I thought that support don't wand to deep dive into this problem. For me, this was a surprise and I consider this the main drawback of this camera, because I planned to use it for outdoor inspections.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 10:01:35 am
content: I have not noticed that but soon I can test it with my PC210...Do you have some sample images for me to look at?Or maybe post them in the FB group - we have a few ITC cert. thermographers there with Level 2 and Level 3. They may have an idea what can cause this and what could be done.

author: c00kemon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 10:16:20 am
content: I think it's a good idea, I'll send the image here, and you will move the question to your group, since I can't join your Facebook group yet. I couldn't recover my account, I'll deal with this problem later.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2022, 01:33:31 pm
content: You got a PM. Send me please a email with the files...I am affraid when you upload images here the EXIF-data could be damaged. I will post them in the group as images and as ZIP so that everone can download the originals and test them in some analysis tools.

author: jweaver
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:26:55 pm
content: When you say "measurement errors" do you mean an error message? or just inaccuracies in the measurements.The temperature here in the UK is now below 0 so I am interested to test.. Can you let me know a specific test i can do?Jon

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2022, 03:43:20 pm
content: 1st we found out that setting the reflected temp. did not affect anything. So it seems the software just do not factor in RAT.You can test to measure something with a known emisivity value after the camera was 5 - 10 min. in the cold.So just go outside for a few minutes and let the camera cool down before taking the images.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 08:17:06 am
content: I think I have found a bug in the firmware...The PC210 do not factor the reflected temperature in the temp. calculation! No matter if I set the RAT to -20 or +550°C I get the same temp. reading...I have attached my images so that you can test it yourself!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 11:31:05 am
content: Reflected temperature has a far greater effect when the target is reflective and so reflecting the environs temperature towards the camera. Try your test with a target that is lower Emissivity and the cameras Emissivity setting appropriate for it. Anything below an Emissivity of 0.5 becomes a challenging scenario for accurate temperature measurement if Emissivity enhancers are not employed. As you will know, the Reflected Temperature setting on a thermal camera is used to compensate for the thermal energy that is being reflected off of a low Emissivity targets surface in order to remove the reflected energy element from the targets temperature calculation. If the reflected temperature setting has no effect on a low Emissivity, highly reflective target, then that is indeed proof that the cameras measurement system is not using that variable in its compensation calculations. In your tests I see that you are using an Emissivity of 0.8. That is not a target Emissivity that would normally concern me greatly with regard to reflected thermal energy. It could be that the firmware only uses the ambient reflected temperature in calculations involving much lower Emissivity settings. I am surprised that your test showed little difference in the measurements with such wild ambient reflected temperature values though.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 11:51:53 am
content: Not wanting to devalue the usefulness of these budget thermal cameras, but when wishing to use a thermal camera for highly accurate measurements, within the limits of thermography physics, it needs to be understood that a budget thermal camera or dongle camera is unlikely to offer the measurement accuracy or measurement repeatability of a camera costing many thousands of Dollars or even tens of thousands of Dollars. Whilst this is well understood and accepted by many who buy budget thermal cameras, it is worth stating for those unaware. There are very good reasons why an industrial or scientific grade thermal camera is a very expensive item to buy. That being said, a budget thermal camera, as being discussed here, remains a very useful tool where great accuracy or repeatability of measurement is not essential. For scientific or Industrial R&D, such cameras would not be my first choice, however. As with many things in life, you get what you pay for and the measurement systems employed in the budget cameras can be very basic in their design and operating principle.Fraser

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 12:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:31:05 amTo make it short - the same settings on my FLIR and Hikmicro Camera did effect the results even with E=0.8! Especially a refelcted temp. of 550°C should give a much lower reading.Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:31:05 amI would disagree here I would say all below a emissivity of 0.8 it becomes chalanging and blow 0.6 I would say it's almost impossible to get a good temp. reading. That's why ITC for example recommand to use a measurement sticker for such low emissivity targets.Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:31:05 amIn normal circumstances I do agree. If you have a 37°C reflection of your body or something like that then 0.8 is totally fine but -60° for a clear sky or +550°C would make a big difference. But to shorten the discussion even with a emmisivity of 0.1 it made not difference if I set the RAT to -20°C or 550°C.But the temp. reading was different between E=0.95 and E=0.1... So some kind of calculation take place but the RAT is not factored in!Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:31:05 amI would say that is based on my shaky hand and not the camera.Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:51:53 amI fully agree with that but my InfiRay C210 and my Pocket2 are also budget cameras and they get it done correctly.Higher end cameras may offer more settings like humidity and others to be even more acurate and their sensors are for sure better and the cameras are calibrated, etc. There are many factors which made the price- and quality-difference.Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 11:51:53 amSure - i know many thermographers which work with high end gear in their main job but run a side-business with lower end models like a B20 or others. The whole post is not about pinpoint accuracy and I agree this thermal cameras will be never that accurate but at least I want to point out the actual issue.I guess that can be fixed with a firmware update and this will make the PC210 not a professional tool but at least a bit better.I know very well what for some usecases this issue do not matter at all as you are more concerned to see the visual image and not necessary the values - e.g. moisture detection, finding shorts in electronics, finding bad electrical connections or overheated fuses, etc.This cheap cameras offer a lot for little money and they allow each plumber, electrician, maintainance-techn., etc. to carry one and diagnose or see problems faster. No doubt!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 01:12:38 pm
content: Totally agree with your commentsIt does indeed appear that the PC210 has a bug in its firmware. I was wondering if it was just that a very course compensation algorithm was at work, like the cameras that only have High, Medium or Low Emissivity. I agree that it should be possible to include adequate compensation in the measurement algorithms of any radiometric thermal camera, no matter the price point. Having worked with some thermal camera manufacturers I have seen first hand how issues with performance can be missed during development, or in worse still, tolerated ! You have raised a valid failing in the PC210 that I hope Guide Sensmart will correct. As the manufacturer of the imaging cores, and so a good understanding of the technology, Guide Sensmart have no excuse for not fixing such an issue.Fraser

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 08:16:50 pm
content: One thing I'm wondering is that when the Hikmicro B20 takes 8 seconds to start up and the PC210 only 1 second then I start to think about whether the RAM might continue to be supplied with power here even after the device has been switched off. Then the battery would be drained further.On the other hand Hikmicro seems to use standard Linux and to judge by Fraser's teardown of their fever thermal camera drivers were also loaded that are not used afterwards, if I remember correctly.

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 08:21:42 pm
content: BTW, whats the difference between "Level" and "Span" if you can set them seperately? As I understood "Span" is the difference between max and min temperature visible on the screen. But then what is meant by "level"?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 09:21:07 pm
content: Level is the centre point around which the span extends… for example : Level set to 20C and Span set to 40C (+/-20C) camera displays the temperatures between 0C and +40C. If Level changed to +30C camera displays range +10C to +50C. Some cameras just require the minimum and maximum temperatures and set the level from those figures. It is desirable to be able to set a span and adjust its ‘window’ up and down in temperature using an easy to access level control.

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 09:44:32 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 01, 2022, 09:21:07 pmThank you very much.The way you describe it it sounds like there's more behind the idea of setting up a "level"?! So there are cameras where you set this level instead of just the span?In my experience this is how I do it:I have a thermal scene and I want to hide everything above and below a certain range (e.g. the object temperature) to get a higher contrast for the object to be measured. I then control the span to get a higher contrast by trial and error. To what extent does the "level" play a role there? Is that the object temperature which I then set as such?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2022, 11:02:39 pm
content: The span is your thermal ‘window’ on the scene and the level sets the position of that window to include items of interest as you change the scene that is being observed. This is important when observing a scene with a small temperature span as such a span provides good thermal detail and is positioned to include the targets of interest using the level control. The alternative is to have to keep setting maximum and minimum temperature span boundaries to suit the change in thermal scene content. With wide spans there is less need to adjust the level as the maximum and minimum temperature span boundaries likely cover most temperatures in a scene. As you say, it is sometimes desirable to use very narrow spans to pull out detail in a thermal scene. I commonly used spans of 8C to 2C. On a 2C span you needed to make regular changes to the level to suit a changing thermal scene.As previously stated, some thermal cameras only allow setting of minimum and maximum temperature span boundaries of a scene. Other cameras permit the setting of a particular span of temperature and the separate setting and easy adjustment of the centre temperature (level) to permit easy movement of the thermal span window up and down as required, without having to set specific minimum and maximum span temperatures. Then there are the ISOTHERM functions but that is another story

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:06:01 pm
content: This is the example used in my book.Span_1 and span_2 show you a wider and norrower span.Span_1 shows basically all temperatures and you have a overview of the whole situation. Here the temp. differences in the water as well as the temp. gradient on the table. In some situations you want to maximize the contrast for some narrower temp. span to see some details more clear.In span_2 I narrow the span ans set the level to the higher temperatures - this shows the convection in the water and the different temperatures in the water much better. All other temperatures are not displayed. But this can make a image much harder to understand. In span_1 it was pretty obvious we see a mug with a hot liquid but in span_2 it's not that obvious.Level_2 shows the same narrow span as span_2. The level set's which temperatures are in the span. The span set for example that we are looking a 20°C temperature range but the level set if we looking at 30-50°C or 60-80°C with that 20°C span. (Just look at the sliders under the thermal images and it become clear)In this image I use a level that let us inspect the temp. gradient on the table to visualize the condution of heat on the table instead of the convection in the water.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:39:55 pm
content: Can you detail where to purchase your book please ? If it is thermography related, I like to read itFraser

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:55:28 pm
content: English version on Amazon:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5KXF41Q/German version on Amazon and all book-stores in german speaking countries:https://www.amazon.de/dp/3756225933/It's a beginners guide which explains the basics. I payed attention that all "experiments" can be easyly done at home. I also explain the recommended procedures for building-, medical- or electro-thermography as well as UAV thermal-imaging.It's basically the most important things to get the best use out of your own camera for everyone who ist not going to do a full ITC Level 1 cert. I don't go that far as a Level 1 because I pay more attention to practical use then physics equations because I think in case you need then you can look them up yourself als long as you know what you are looking for.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:58:44 pm
content: Something to bear in mind when purchasing a thermal camera is what post image capture analysis software is available. Some cameras offer ‘on-camera’ editing of stored pictures or thermal analysis. I personally prefer to load the radiometric images onto a Laptop with a decent sized screen so that I can see fine details and carry out measurements with ease. Many/most PC thermal image analysis programs will also permit the user to select different LUT palettes, spans and levels. This is great for pulling details out of an image.The great thing about a thermal camera that saves fully radiometric images is that the whole temperature range of the cameras ADC is saved so post image capture analysis can create basically any image settings you desire that can be derived from the raw data. The span and level settings on the camera are basically for the users live image default saved image. Sadly some thermal cameras do not have ‘off-camera’ image analysis software or they do not save fully radiometric images so the raw data is not available to use in analysis software. You will see some cameras save a RGB image plus the spot temperature readings that are stored in metadata. Sadly spot data storage does not make such an image fully radiometric as the other pixel data is just the RGB levels that are often a somewhat mangled version of the raw thermal data due to histogram equalisation and noise reduction techniques that make for a prettier image on the display.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 12:59:54 pm
content: Markb1980,Many thanks for the linkFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 01:02:30 pm
content: Markb1980Can you share an image of the books index please as that will help forum members decide whether this is a book they needThank youFraser

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 01:06:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 04, 2022, 12:58:44 pmI talk about that in the book a little... As well as resolution, focussing, FOV, working distance and other things you should pay attention to when getting a TIC just in case someone get the book before buying a camera or at least to establish that knowledge for the later purchase of a more advanced camera.I also focus more on entry level cameras as PC210, Pocket2, C210/C200, M10, etc.Quote from: Fraser on December 04, 2022, 01:02:30 pmAmazon gives you a preview of the first few pages. Ther is also the table of contents included...

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 09:45:49 pm
content: I'm amazed how little people seem to deal with their thermal cameras. I read very often on forums about people wondering about "clicking noises" because they don't even read the manual to read the note on every other page that the "clicking" is a normal process and why this is happening.No offense meant but I already experienced the contents of this beginners book myself after a week of trying out the B20 in late march. Nothing new in it therefore sent it back to Amazon. I admit most people don't even bother with their cameras that intensively. Which then leads me to the question of what the content of such an ITC level 1 seminar is that costs thousands of euros/dollars? Maybe Level 2 or 3 may be more interesting when it comes to very specific applications?!Basically what I lack is special expertise: e.g. what does it mean if there is a temperature difference at the window? When is that 'peculiar'? What environmental conditions must prevail outside (weather, wind, rain, sun) in order to be able to draw conclusions from them? That only has meaning for home inspectors which I'm not or didn't want to be.My question above about the "level & span" related primarily to the manual setting of the level which Fraser addressed. It seemed as if it was the case with some cameras that you would enter the temp directly there instead of manually shifting the 'level & span' up and down like with Hikmicro cameras. Hence my request.Hikmicro has a decent Analyzer Software. Maybe not that of Flir but I never had one so I don't know.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 11:17:13 pm
content: QuoteI hear multiple times that the camera lags and freezes because the processor is too weakQuoteA certificate is a certificate - the sence is primary to certify you have some knowledge. It's like a degree.You can know it but it will be risky for any company to let you sign papers and protocols without any documentation that you know what you do. In case you would make a mistake no insurance would pay for any damage caused by your error or it would be at least very hard to get them to pay.No problem if you know all - it's a beginners guide and not all cameras come with a good manual - I have seen also manuals which are 6-8 pages long and only describe where you find which setting but don't tell you basically anything about the sence or usage.You also aksed about level and span. But if you think you know the basics what is the propper preparation for building thermography? (No offense)QuoteThis has nothing to do with thermography - this is knowledge about the physics of buildings. Most common issues are:1) Moisture2) Heat-lossTo correctly interpret what you see on a thermal image of a roof you have to understand for example hot moist areas behave thermally in contrast to dry areas. This need then knowledge about heat capacity and thermal inertia. BTW - that is a example in my book.Thermography knowledge is in the most cases not enough - you have to combine it with other knowledge. You will never be able to correctly interpret thermal images from buildings if you don't understand how the thermographed area of the building is constructed, why it's done this way and how it should behave normally. After knowing that you can get a idea what could go wrong and then you can proof your theory with further tests.If you think there is a water leak just use a moisture meter to check if the cold spot is indeed wet and then check the roof, doors, windows, walls, whatever visually to see where the water could come from or check the plan to see if there are some pipes which could leak.The same applies to thermal bridges. You have also to understand how walls are constructed to understand if a inspection with a thermal camera would even make sence. For example to inspect a rear-ventilated facade from outside is usually senceless or at least not relayable. To understand that you have to knwo what's a rear-ventilated facade and you have to recognice one if you see it.To understand if a temperature difference is OK or not you have to consider things like the dew-point, usage of the building, the standards of the time when they are build, etc. A house which was build in 1960 will not have the same good isolation as a brand new low-energy house and that's why in the old house some temp. differences may be totally OK while they would be a dissaster in a low-energy house.That's by far not all just some samples I had discussed with L2 and L3 thermographers I know for the book.That's why you can't just make a ITL Level 1 certificate and work as thermographer for buildings without a propper education as architect or something similiar. You can't do electric-thermograhy without the education as electrician or engeneer for electric systems.QuoteThat was all described in my book in the chapter about building thermography.QuoteYes that is true.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 11:38:13 pm
content: Markb1980,Well done for creating a useful book to assist those new to thermal imaging. As you state, many thermal camera manufacturers provide only the most basic of user guides with little or no explanation of how to get the best out of the camera. I liked FLIR and Inframetrics user manuals as they included a large section on thermal imaging principles. That said, I do not recall them going into much detail about the pitfalls awaiting novices who use the thermal imaging cameras. I believe this was a case of the manufacturer making the tool and providing a guide on how to access its various functions, but expecting the end user to have the required training and knowledge to get the best out of what the camera had to offer. A bit like buying most ‘tools’ really.If you have explained the basic principles, common camera features and how best to configure and use a thermal camera in your book, you have done a great service to those who have purchased the hardware but lack the experience to configure it correctly or to understand its behaviour when imaging different scenes.Fraser

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 12:04:18 am
content: I went a notch deeper then that with best practices for various situations like ideal conditions for building thermography or the wet roof example to demonstrate the heat capacity in a practical usecase.I have a facebook group with many beginners in that field and I see many people try it with learning by doing but that usually don't work out as you see here: https://www.facebook.com/tony.smith.71653/videos/5240107596017710(Sorry setting a link cause a error message from Facebook)In Austria there are some hardware-stores which offer "free" thermal imaging inspections and they usually also send people around with a TIC and the intention to sell something. I have once seen such a "free" home-inspection and the guy tryed to expain some women that she has a heat-loss and she need new windows. The problem was just that he thermgraphed a building with darker plastic windows which was in the sun for many hoursThe sad thing was that I am not really sure that "home-inspector" did even realize what bullshit he did in that moment.

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 12:12:22 am
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 04, 2022, 11:17:13 pmWhen we talk about the UniT devices you might even be right. At least the reviews on Youtube seemed as if the devices were not installed with the "most suitable for the product".QuoteOf course you are right. If someone does it professionally and earns money with it you should already have a good basic knowledge. But it also depends on what you intend to do. Doing your work as a heating installer you don't need a thermal camera but it can be very helpful for additional information. No need for an expensive seminar for this.QuoteExactly and that's what I mean. I don't have that knowledge. So I can't really use the camera in that area either. I would rather read a book that explains these specialities. However it would be very extensive and could only be written by someone with practical expertise in this area.But that's not meant to be a criticism of your book. I just wanted to express that if you get a little closer to your work tool you don't need a book like this. The info is either from the manual (okay, if it's badly written, then not) or from some info on the web and especially by personal experience. However i am also more of an autodidact who, if there is a corresponding interest, learns things myself as best as he can. Others are not so good at it or prefer to read a book.QuoteYou mentioned it but didn't elaborate. That would be too much for a beginner's book. I'm not even criticizing. Doesn't even belong in there.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2022, 12:33:22 am
content: QuoteTrue - as a native german speaker I could recommend you that one:https://www.amazon.de/Thermografie-einsetzen-Energieberatung-Bau%C3%BCberwachung-Schadensanalyse/dp/3481027338I have read it and I understood not even the half because I am not a construction engeneer nor an architect.QuoteThat can be said about every technicalbook. Some people want to spend time and search all informations themself others will spend a little money and get all in a book. You can learn basically everything nowadays for free if you use youtube and various other websites and blogs.Think about programming, CAD, photoshop and 1000 other things.QuoteI disagree - I have mostly all in what belongs to thermal imaging for buildings or even medical applications. Everything more would belong to construction-engeneering or medicine.Medical thermography for example is very easy - the body is thermically symetrical and that's basically it. All the rest is to understand how the body reacts to which issue and basically understand how the body functions.That's why I could teach you in 10 min. how to thermograph a body but you would need to be a doctor of medicine to read the thermal images correctly. If you want to discuss that further send me a PM with your number and we can discuss ther in german on whatsapp, signal or viber further. That thread here was basically ment to review the PC210 and not du discuss my book nor the sence of ITC certs...

author: Almenaar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 15, 2022, 07:57:30 pm
content: Hi all,as a newbie owner of the Guide PC210 I am happy to have found this very informative thread. Thanks all for sharing info, that helps me a lot in understanding working with this camera.I am a energy building advisor and want to use thermal imaging to help my clients in a better way.I have recently done a 1-day ITC course, and yes, I know, that ain't much compared to the knowledge of many people around here. But one has to start somewhere. I intend to start a level 1 course in a couple of months time, but first want to get accustomed to the new camera a bit.In the above thread I have read that @markb1980 posted about a Facebook group. I have been looking to find it, but did not succeed. Could markb1980 or anybody else give me a clue?

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2022, 08:14:55 pm
content: Hi Almenaar!This is the group:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1816479168568552According to the Level1 training - that is a great training but I am not sure if you can do all excercises in the L1 training with the PC210. This is a very basic camera. If you would really want to go that route seriously I would advice you to get a Hikmicro M20Wat least. For example to get the reflected temp. you have to defocus the lens or use the foil method and middle the temp. on the foil...You can't defocus a PC210 because it's a fixed focus TIC and you have no tool to display the avg. temp. in a box so youl would need to use the PC software in that case! This would be inconvineant and slow you quite a bit down. But for the work you want to do the analysis features of the GuideIR software are a bit limiting...The M10 would be suteable for the training but the narrow FOV would make your kind of work difficult!A M20W is the wide-angle version of the M20 with 256x192 resolution (lowest I would like to go for that kind of work). When you have joined the FB-group ask "Francois Viljoen" about the minimum requirements for the L1 training. He is a full-time L3 certified thermographer and also an ITC-trainer.Hope that helps a bit.

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 02:47:36 am
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 15, 2022, 08:14:55 pmThe Hikmicro M20Whas a fixed focus ("focus free") so you can't manually adjust it. The M20 (without theW) has a manual focus but a more narrow FOV.I don't know the prices in other countries but here in Germany the M20 costs almost as much as theM30. The price difference is marginal based on the relatively high price anyway.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 08:03:21 am
content: Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 16, 2022, 02:47:36 amYes I am aware of that - maybe it didn't came out in the message.The M10/M20 have man. focus but a very narrow FOV which make scanning whole houses / rooms difficult because you have to stand quite far away. The M30 has a FOV which is not that narrow as a M20 but also not that wide as a M20W. The higher resolution ia also a huge benefit as you can see smaller details.Anyway the M20W has a box measurement right in camera which will get the job done. The very wide FOV make it great for home inspections. I have rooms in my home where the FOV of the M20W would barely work. In some cases I have to stand in the hallway to get a whole wall in the frame with my Pocket2! So a M30 would not work and you have to take 2 thermal images. If the budget would be high enough a M30 would be an option but the narrower FOV would force you sometimes to take multiple thermal images to show a whole room or front of a house.Thats why I have recommended a M20W. Another option would be a FLIR E8 - also wide FOV but 320x240 resolution - but sadly more expensive as a Hikmicro M30!When I think about the need to create reports I would not want to use other software then Hikmicro or Flir. The options of Infiray or Guide are a bit limiting!Another idea would be to use a PC210 for scanning and then a M20 / M30 to inspect some parts closer. I am just not sure how that would be manageable in reporting!Quote from: katzenhai2 on December 16, 2022, 02:47:36 amI have found the M20W as low as 1666 EUR in Hersch. A M30 would be 2636 EUR. Thats basically a 1000 EUR price difference. The M20 is much closer in price but the focus-free design make the M20W cheaper.But thanks for pointing that out...

author: Almenaar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 03:59:54 pm
content: @markb1980: Thanks for your quick reply for Fb and also for pointing me in a better direction. When the first work/assignments done with the PC210 prove to be successful I will dive into finding better equipment. For now, it is a bit too early for me.@markb1980 and @katzenhai2: from both your replies I notice that there is a lot to learn for me! Thanks.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 04:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: Almenaar on December 16, 2022, 03:59:54 pmThat sounds like a good plan.Don't get me wrong - you can get work done with a PC210! But you will learn more then you need for your work in an ITC L1 class... Some of the things you would learn are not important for you - mostly you look for differences and not exact measurements. For example you don't care if a spot cool down to 14° or 13C or 15°C - the temp. itself is not that important. It's important to you that this spot is aprox. 5°C cooler than some other areas.There are a few things you need to do to prepare a thermal inspection of a home and some things to keep in mind when analysing the images. Many things from the L1 training are important for correct temperature measurements. For home inspections there are additional trainings available. Your work is to find anomalies and differences. Even if your temp. readings are 2 or 3°C off you will still see the differences as you will have probably everywhere the same error (an exception would be a local reflection) and so that the differences would be the same!I am pretty confident that you can do it without L1 training. Maybe the better option would be to get some kind of mentor who does home-inspections for a living and who can help you to get started! Try at least do discuss the images you took with knowledgeable people to get a feedback what you have done good and what not!

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 06:54:12 pm
content: @AlmenaarJust send me a PM on Facebook and I can hook you up with some fulltime thermographers which can give you a few tips...

author: Almenaar
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 07:28:06 pm
content: @markb1980: Thanks again Markb1980. If I can do without the L1 course that would be nice. At the other hand, as you have also written somewhere else in this thread: it is a certificate showing some expertise. That can be helpful in getting an easier entrance to customers and most likely also in charging more for the service.And I will PM you on FB, having the possibility to ask some questions to knowledgeable people would be really helpful too.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 08:18:56 pm
content: Quote from: Almenaar on December 16, 2022, 07:28:06 pmThat depends on the laws of your country. Some allow everyone to do thermal imaging and in some you need to proof that you have a formal education ...Quote from: Almenaar on December 16, 2022, 07:28:06 pmNot really - I have learned programming from books back in the days but I had never any formal education. Anyway I have worked almost 15 years as a full-time programmer and I have done multiple hundred of projects.No client ever asked me for some certificate or the like. Now a an professional expert I had to do basically certs for everything to proof some kind of education. If you are going to write expert opinions for a court or you want to do some kind of work for the public authorities then yes - you will need to show at least a L1 training. As far as I know for an expert opinion in court you will need a L2 at least.So it depends on the country and it depends on the type of work you do. If you want to rate the energy efficency of homes for the approval of state subsidies then you will need a cert. and a better camera also. As far as I know most european countries request at least 320x240 resolution for such reports and for expert opinions.If you use it as a tool helping you in your work like a plumber would use a cheap thermal camera for tracing heating pipes or an electician would use it to see how the underfloor heating works, then you can do what you want... My GF estimate real estate pricing and she checks most buildings with a thermal camera not for her conclusions but to see if something looks out of the ordenary and in such a case she calls an expert to investigate further.In case you do some kind of reporting for the client you have to check if thermal imaging is something you can do without a certificate in your country.Quote from: Almenaar on December 16, 2022, 07:28:06 pmLooking forward to it. We can discuss that further on FB with some friends of mine which have far more knowledge then me...

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2022, 08:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 16, 2022, 08:03:21 amIf you want to focus manually the higher resolution makes the M30 a better choice. The price difference between the M20 and M30 is marginal (on Black Friday it cost only €2,188).Since you referred to "defocus" I thought you were recommending a manual focus camera. Hence my hint that the M20Wdoes not have such a thing. Misunderstanding.Quote from: markb1980 on December 16, 2022, 08:18:56 pmIf I understand correctly L2 is the final certification course where you learn about hands-on thermal experience. L3 is be more intended to plan and carry out your own projects (e.g. in a company), e.g. with new production facilities: what needs to be thermographed and how, what the employees have to do when and how. At least that's what I've read about it in certification descriptions.But that all haven't anything to do with the Guide PC210...

author: aydd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 12:47:55 am
content: hellopls tell mepc210 where can i buy holder or 3d print file download link ?pc210 20 50,8 makro lens. Can you write the best selling site

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 07:37:43 am
content: Hi.As you are in turkey I would suggest Aliexpress or printing it yourself:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-thermal-camera-anyone-familiar-with/msg4111042/#msg4111042This is the lens:https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004441211317.html?spm...

author: aydd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 09:37:04 pm
content: I couldn't find this product on aliexpress.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 10:36:35 pm
content: Just search "50.8mm znse lens" - there are a lot of offers.

author: aydd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2022, 11:06:10 pm
content: no only holder .

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 12:15:39 am
content: I see multiple pages with offers:https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20221220161442&origin=y&SearchText=50.8mm+znse+lens&spm=a2g0o.detail.1000002.0

author: aydd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 10:33:27 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on December 21, 2022, 12:15:39 ami am buy uti260bbecause There is not available in turkeyIf I buy the macro lens in this link, is the board suitable for short circuit 50.8 20mm. pvd znsesehttps://tr.aliexpress.com/item/32241074105.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.7f19b60efsIlO6&algo_pvid=ad31eca4-cd22-49b8-8906-f3bd95184fd7&aem_p4p_detail=202212251421339425589170305090002789463&algo_exp_id=ad31eca4-cd22-49b8-8906-f3bd95184fd7-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000015545693735%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21TRY%21267.74%21192.77%21%21%21%21%21%402145279016720068934333274d0712%2112000015545693735%21sea&curPageLogUid=3L39xmIFPUgP&ad_pvid=202212251421339425589170305090002789463_1&ad_pvid=202212251421339425589170305090002789463_1Which lens would you recommend for the uti260b? thanks china pvd / usa cvd

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 08:29:44 am
content: For all entry level thermal cameras you can get a 50.8mm lens.But I would not recommand a UTi-260B or Infiray C200 for electronics. These cameras do not allow you you set level and span manually and that may become an issue in many cases.So try to get a Hikmicro B10 / B20 / Pocket2 or Guide PC210.

author: aydd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 11:15:02 am
content: I bought this product. 20x50.8 lens. Should I buy china pvd or usa cvd? which one is better

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 12:10:15 pm
content: I my opinion it does not matter!

author: zhe song
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 09:13:35 am
content: Can someone tell me where I can get a firmware upgrade for PC210? The version is V1.3.6.20220520

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 10:33:17 am
content: Quote from: zhe song on December 27, 2022, 09:13:35 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-thermal-camera-anyone-familiar-with/msg4601629/#msg4601629

author: rfspezi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 01:41:38 pm
content: Which camera model would be equal or better than the Guide PC210 in the similar price range?

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2023, 02:39:33 pm
content: I would say non at the same price range but if you are willing to spend 200 USD more you can have a Hikmicro B10, B20 or Pocket2 which are a overall better deal in my opinion and a overall more prof. tool!

author: sikseb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 02:52:31 pm
content: Hello markb1980,Would you recommend PC210 for house inspections both indoor and outdoor? Not professionally; just for home-use.Would you recommend PC230 over it it has autofocus & smaller FOV and costs ~100 EUR more?https://www.guideir.com/products/thermographys-tools/pc/data_165.htmlThanks

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:23:20 pm
content: Home inspection mean wide angle lens / wide FOV.See the comparison of the wide daylight camera and the very narrow FOV of the termal camera.With the PC230 you will ofern have no space to get all in the picture what you want if you have a normal flat or house.A PC230 is much better suited to inspect electrical cupplings or high-voltage transformers where you have to keep a greater distance.

author: sikseb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:00:39 pm
content: Thanks. Based on this now i have a pc210.Have some questions:What is roimeasure in the settings?What would be a good enough emission value for home inspection brick based walls, is 0.93-95 good?Thanks in advance

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:18:56 pm
content: Quote from: sikseb on February 08, 2023, 09:00:39 pmWhat do you mean by that?Quote from: sikseb on February 08, 2023, 09:00:39 pm0.95 would be OK for most walls. Basically you want to see differences when Inspecting homes and not pinpoint accuracy for the readings. You are much more concerned if a certain part of a building shows a temp. difference. (see the sample images - there you can clear see that some temperature is gettng lost and thatfor some parts cool down)Emissivity can be dertermined by a emissivity table - e.g.:https://ennologic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ultimate-Emissivity-Table.pdfThe Material in the wall do not matter but the material on the surface. That's why emissivity stickers work. You can stick them on a shiny surface which would be basically impossible to read reliably but the sticker allow you to do that.So you need to check the emissivity of the paint oder whatever is the last layer on the surface and not the main building material.

author: sikseb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 02:12:56 pm
content: Thanks. It is in the settings of thenpc210. Screenshot is attached.Also can you comfirm if the firmware is good enough?Thanks.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 02:23:38 pm
content: I have borrowed the PC210 to a friend - if I recall correctly that activates a box-measurement area in 3 sizes.I do not memorise the differences between FW-versions but as you can't update the firmware anymore yourself that is all you get and you stuck with it! If I recall corretly 1.3.x or 1.4.x is the latest version. So 1.2.2 seems to be an older version.You need to look at the forum - older versions had issues when using manual level & span!Best try what happend to images when you activate or deactivate the ROImeaturement.

author: sikseb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 07:49:00 pm
content: Thanks. Would anyone know the diff between version and firmware for this pc210 model?

author: damanloox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 06:29:44 pm
content: Does anybody know if there's any way of capturing "live" view (even with a lag) from the PC210 to mac? I can see "IR video" device when connected to the mac but can't use it ie. can't see it anywhere / in any recording/webcam software...

author: Matthias
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 08:59:22 am
content: Hey there, I wanted to "drop" the information that the camera stores uncompressed IR pixel data in the jpeg. I was looking into this a bit because I was curious how the software works (... actually, it isn't working so great for me).So I looked 3 hours into it and came up with a proof of concept of how to get the data out. Unfortunately, it is far from working properly as there seem to be some "mis-decoding"...If somebody wants to fiddle further:https://github.com/NerdyProjects/Guide_PC210_ImageExtractor

author: Hamelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 03:58:02 pm
content: Received the PC210 today, it is really working great.But never seen such a useless user manual..

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:11:54 pm
content: Chineese manuals look often so.

author: Hamelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2023, 04:54:05 pm
content: ..

author: serenkiy515
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 10:57:39 am
content: Hello. I ordered a PC210 for myself. While I'm waiting for the package, I'm reading your forum. Could you please email me the latest firmware. Or give a link?s.gezik@mail.ru

author: Hamelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 11:02:09 am
content: Firmware update is not recommended due to the risc of loosing the calabration data

author: serenkiy515
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 01:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: Hamelec on April 17, 2023, 11:02:09 amI got a camera today. It immediately became clear that the device overestimates the temperature. So I think I need to try flashing.Modification: v1.3.6.20220520firmware; v1.2.2.20211206

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 02:14:46 pm
content: What was the emissivity set to and what did you try to measure?

author: serenkiy515
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 03:46:15 pm
content: Quote from: markb1980 on April 17, 2023, 02:14:46 pmYour hand. 44 degrees, emissivity = 1P/S I apologize if I'm not expressing myself correctly. I use a translator.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 05:55:51 pm
content: I would exchange the unit - a update will not fix the issue for 98% sure. If you are out of the 14 days in which you can return the unit without a reason then you will have issues to reclamate that maybe...Skin should have some value in the 0.96-0.98 range I belive but that can not cause such issue normally. You can try if E=0.96 will help. The PC210 has anyway some issues with temp. readings according to many users here. I have a decent model but it has some firmware-issues which don't get solved by an update.The have anyway taken the cetisism and made adjustments for the new PF210 but old PC210 users don't get a firmware-update.Test also the software - it will not update the temp. readings when you change emissivity or the RAT. So also that is not really working great.

author: serenkiy515
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 01:46:11 am
content: There is news. The device spent the night in my room. In the morning I found that the temperature had returned to normal. Maybe when I got it, it was still cold inside. Or raw. He drove in a truck for 7 days at -8 degrees.And yet the issue with the update remains open. please share the file.Есть новости. Прибор пролежал ночь в моей комнате. На утро я обнаружил что температура пришла в норму. Возможно когда я его получил он еще был холодный внутри. Либо сырой. Он ехал в грузовике 7 дней при -8 градусов.И все таки вопрос с обновлением остаётся открытым. поделитесь пожалуйста файлом.

author: markb1980
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 07:21:43 am
content: To my knowledge noone has the actual file. There is a file around which some users have but it's not the latest one.Guide request you to send the device in for firmware update.You can look maybe some of the users here still has a update-file on his PC but as I told you it's not the latest version.

author: serenkiy515
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 02:31:22 pm
content: Anyway, I want to update. No one but you is talking to me here :'( .I think I figured out why there are such different readings in temperatures. Firstly, it is inertia. The device is large and closed. Inside it there is a thermocouple which is the reference point of the thermometer. When we go outside with the device from the room, the device relies on room temperature when measuring (does not have time to cool down / heat up), hence the incorrect readings. If the device is on the street for a couple of hours, it will start measuring normally (only on the street), there will be discrepancies with room thermometers in the room again.I think this is not a revision ofthe case or the software.Who didn't disassemble the device? See if there is a thermocouple or a thermistor insideВсе равно, хочу обновить. Не кто кроме Вас с мной здесь не говорит :'( .Кажется я разобрался почему такие разные показания в температурах. Во первых это инерция. Прибор большой и закрытого типа. Внутри него есть термопара которая является точкой отсчета термометра. Когда мы с прибором выходим на улицу из комнаты, то прибор опирается при измерении на комнатную температуру (не успевает остыть/нагреться), отсюда и неправильные показания. Если прибор полежит на улице пару часов он начнет мерять нормально (только на улице), в комнате снова будут расхождения с комнатными градусниками.Я считаю это не доработкакорпуса или программного обеспечения.Кто не будь разбирал прибор? Посмотреть есть ли там внутри термопара или терморезистор

author: Hamelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 03:27:29 pm
content: Anyway, you are free to do what you want - also to ask five times more for a firmware.Some opinions to it are written here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-review/msg4818269/#msg4818269https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/guide-pc210-review/msg4817654/#msg4817654and also in other threads here..good luck.

author: berke
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 10:11:31 am
content: Does anyone know how to get a video feed from this under Linux? It's UVC class but guvcview for example can't handle it. (I'd like to avoid messing with the FW if possible.)

author: marmalade
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 10:22:26 pm
content: I'm confused by the frame rate in the specs. What does 25Hz / 9Hz mean? Why are there two frame rates? Can someone help me?

author: Hawaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 08:22:00 am
content: Quote from: berke on January 09, 2024, 10:11:31 amHave a look at this, maybe you’ll find some info on the video streamhttps://github.com/Lexy1972/PC210Viewer

author: berke
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 09:03:08 am
content: There really isn't much in the code, it uses OpenCV to capture the images and by the description it just flips/rotates the image.I'll try capturing with OpenCV.

author: marmalade
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2024, 12:48:37 pm
content: Quote from: marmalade on January 29, 2024, 10:22:26 pmCostumer service wrote the following:Quote

author: rogerdammit
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 10:49:41 pm
content: Quote from: marmalade on February 02, 2024, 12:48:37 pmIs it possible to switch country or some other setting to get 25 Hz? Or it is hardware/firmware locked?

author: eTobey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 12:04:39 pm
content: Has anyone managed to get this cam working displaying on the PC with a lag that is smaller than 1s?