Really RS Components, I am not allowed to order solder anymore?? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 04:51:13 am
content: We truly are living in the darkest timelinehttps://twitter.com/geoffrey_mcrae/status/1359351339696877572

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 05:09:37 am
content: Yes, the phaseout of lead continues. They've been steadily working on it for 20 years, so I'm not sure why it's a huge surprise.E: And yes, you can still get lead flashing as an exception exists for it.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 05:28:20 am
content: You kinda look like Dave Gahan.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 11:48:00 am
content: Edit: This is from may 2019.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 am
content: And you're not even living in EU... those fuckturd want to even ban lead ammunition. (To be replaced by much more dangerous steel one)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:02:03 pm
content: Rapid also pull this same craphttps://www.rapidonline.com/warton-metals-omega-63-37-fast-flow-2-flux-solder-wire-18swg-1-22mm-500g-85-6150

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:15:18 pm
content: CPC/Farnell aren't, as yet, refusing as far as I can tell.Wonder how difficult it is to get 'professional' status?

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 02:04:15 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on February 10, 2021, 12:15:18 pmI'm just praying it'll be as simple as a certificate of incorporation or VAT registration.If they go the same way as lead paint, dichloromethane or corrosive chemicals then it'll be a training course or third party certification... or the most annoying option of all, needing to supply a "business only address".. which is an absolute PITA when you work from a residential address!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 02:34:17 pm
content: Rapid say 'account holders only'.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 03:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 amAnd by what metric do you consider steel ammuniton 'much more dangerous'?

author: julian1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 05:40:57 pm
content: Does RS have a choice, if the 'reach' legislation/regulation they refer to is valid?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 05:47:57 pm
content: Just buy it on eBay. No one gives a fuck there!

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 06:35:59 pm
content: I've already bought a lifetime supply of lead solder. I'm set.

author: rfclown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 07:37:50 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 amI'll have to switch to the depleted uranium ammunition they use in the A-10.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 08:13:01 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 amIt just makes sense to ban lead ammunition in applications where it pollutes the environment and endangers wildlife.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 09:05:09 pm
content: Apparently from 1 Mar 2018, sale of lead metal ( excluding roofing sheet, batteries or ammunition) is banned to consumers :https://ila-reach.org/2018/01/new-restrictions-and-labelling-requirements-affect-lead-from-march-1-2018/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 09:35:33 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 amThe amounts of lead released into the environment through ammunition far, far, far, far, far exceeds what is released through electronics. It absolutely makes sense to switch ammo to something else.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 12:51:43 am
content: I ordered some the other day, and also a pair of tweezers to get free postage (final price was within pennies).They removed the solder from the order without telling meandcharged me postage on the tweezers I did not need.I complained stating I would not accept the tweezers, had not agreed to pay postage, and I only wanted the solder.The solder was posted to me and I now have 500g of 60Sn/38Pb/2Cu 0.7mm solder, and some mediocre tweezers.Should last a while.

author: dcarr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:23:37 am
content: I've been using lead free solder for everything (down to 0201 SMD) for 15 years. Give it a shot! It's not much, if any, more difficult and you can eat pizza while soldering with no worries!

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 10:41:15 am
content: You can eat pizza equally well while working with leaded solder. While regulated (and monitored to some extent), all food, drinks and drinking water contain some lead. FDA says daily maximum intake for an adult to 12.5 µg/day. There is no way handling the metallic solder with your hands, then touching food with the hands unwashed would cause material to transfer in this amount. With solder paste, I would be much more careful.OTOH, if you are concerned about health effects, you should bereallypaying attention to the flux used in the solder. There are differences, and anecdotal comments always mention lead-free solder containing a more harmful flux. Whether this is actually true or not, I don't know, but it's worth spending your investigative time and energy on if you are concerned about health (which is obviously a good idea).

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 12:44:27 pm
content: As children, we smashed old batteries, shook the plates out of them with our bare hands, and melted them on the bonfire...My generation is not impressed by anything. But people are getting weaker and more afraid of everything.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 01:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 11, 2021, 12:44:27 pmWell...:https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=RUAnd for us, European Fucktards:https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.LE00.IN?locations=EU

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 01:19:00 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 11, 2021, 01:02:21 pmIt is not a fact that the lead from the battery affected this...We have many problems worse than lead. By the way, not so long ago in Russia, newspapers were printed with lead-containing paint. About 30-40 years ago.And I am not inclined to believe implicitly any sources at the same time. We often see inaccuracies and even deception.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 01:47:59 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 11, 2021, 12:44:27 pmNo, people are getting stronger by eliminating completely unnecessary toxins."What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is utter bullshit. Of course in some isolated cases it is true but generally (especially regarding biologically cumulative toxins), nope.You can read about the effects of lead athttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoningRe being afraid, it's also easier to live when youdon'tneed to be afraid about something that has been removed.Really, 1900's was quite crappy century toxin-wise. A lot of shit we don't really need and which actually affects our health. Your (and mine) generation may not remember because things started to get better already in 1990's. Worst was before that. Asbestos alone was a killer, and these were really painful deaths. Good riddance.The flipside of better life is that some people get oversensitive to smaller and smaller things. But that's a completely different matter. We didn't poison ourselves 10 000 years ago, and don't need to do it now in order not to be "oversensitive".

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 10, 2021, 02:04:15 pmIn our country, it seems all you need is a license number (in fact you can be a freelaancer - with your own VAT number, but you still need to register a license for electricals, meaning you need at least an official electrical education - meaning a random Joe can't get that kind of license).

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:48:51 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 11, 2021, 02:27:22 pmSo you need to be a licensed professional of a profession that doesn't usually solder?

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:50:32 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 11, 2021, 01:47:59 pmBeing less afraid does allow for a much greater degree of pragmatism and avoidance of blanket rules, and maybe a little understanding that perhaps the kind of consumer who who would intentionally purchase leaded solder from RS is probably knowledgeable enough not to start using it as salad garnish, and, even if they did, is unlikely to use the remainder to hand solder a sufficient number of boards to cause any significant contamination

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 03:10:56 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on February 11, 2021, 02:48:51 pmStrictly looking at the law, you need to be registered as a person working as a licensed electrician. To be one of them, you need a formal education related to electrical. So the license really covers a broad spectrum of people from "real electricians", across "electrical project managers" up to those electronics guys working in a lab enviroment with hteir soldering irons and osmellocscopes.But to be honest, I am not sure, that is my explanation of the law. It may even be, that a "lead proffessional" may only be a licensed chemist wearing hazmat suit. One does not really tell, with that kind of shitlaws we have (or the SU is trying to push).

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 03:20:21 pm
content: The EU would shit a brick if the job my dad spent 10+years doing still existed,he spent 8 hours a day chucking lead ingots into a melting pot to make lead oxide,his H+S gear was a pair of gloves , a dust mask and a pint of milk a day.Regular health checks were carried out on all the staff and i don't recall there ever being any problems

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 03:36:38 pm
content: I think that in Europe and America there are already quite a lot of people from another culture, where they are not so sensitive to the environment. Therefore, it is not reasonable to rely on culture and it is necessary to regulate it by law.In addition, it is necessary to keep the business on a leash, without this, for the sake of profit, no one will limit themselves.The human body is a fairly stable and protected system, capable of recovery within certain limits. Therefore, playing at home with a solder coil can be completely safe, but a nearby factory that regularly exudes pollution for a long time is a problem.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:13:02 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 11, 2021, 03:36:38 pmIf i am not mistaken the whole anti-lead-solder policy is not meant to protect the people using it; it is primarily meant to prevent lead entering the environment when the devices in which it is used are scrapped and / or burned. But I could be wrong

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:34:29 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 11, 2021, 04:13:02 pmYou are entirely correct. Which is why lead flashing is not such a problem. It stays in large sheets which get recycled. Domestic use of lead solder will end up in landfill. All of my bench sweepings at work get dealt with in the same waste stream as other electronics waste. How many home-gamers have a dedicated waste bin for solder scraps that gets properly dealt with by a licensed hazardous waste contractor?? 0%?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 04:38:47 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on February 11, 2021, 04:34:29 pmBut The Man is infringing on our rights to not adapt our soldering techniques!

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 05:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on February 11, 2021, 04:34:29 pmI live in an area where the non-recyclables go through an incinerator for heat and power... I'm not defending it, just being pedantic, at least I don't need to worry about my leaded-waste contaminating landfill leachate... I just hold me breath on days the wind is in my direction

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 05:33:28 pm
content: I just typed "lead free solder" into ebay, because I want RoHS solder, and found most sellers are still listing 60/40. One stated, "this  solder is suitable for all lead and lead free soldering electronics." So you might want to start looking there?I wonder if anyone has some "low-alpha lead solder" going cheap?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on February 10, 2021, 11:55:25 amThe British army were considering banning lead 20 years ago due to it beeing "hazedous to health" Like it made much difference to you when travelling through you at supersonic speeds.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:20:58 pm
content: IIRC this particular ban was enacted (3 years ago) because some overzealous Swedish politician couldn't live with the cognitive dissonance that the EU has some general policy somewhere of banning sales of any teratogens to consumers and lead is a known teratogen. So its nothing really serious and without any explicit aim.As others remarked, plenty of lead in all forms is still available on auction sites because nobody cares. If there is something that the EUSSR actually genuinely really seriously cares about, like nitric acid, rest assured you won't find it on auction sites.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:25:32 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on February 11, 2021, 06:01:50 pmActually the concern in that regard is lead dust on indoor ranges. Adequate ventilation is a sufficient solution, however.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: woody on February 11, 2021, 04:13:02 pmTwo regulations are at work:RoHS (which required lead solder to be eliminated from new products) is about environmental protection.REACH (which restricts the sale of lead solder to consumers) is about consumer safety.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:37:26 pm
content: And neither applies to this case. Or maybe REACH does, I don't remember. It's not RoHS related, at any rate.Yeah, sorry, it's REACH indeed.https://ila-reach.org/2018/01/new-restrictions-and-labelling-requirements-affect-lead-from-march-1-2018/Not sure how it applies to customers from Australia, I think it isn't supposed to

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:46:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 11, 2021, 06:28:54 pmAnd realistically we're the unfortunate collateral in the latter. Realistically most 'consumers' using lead solder are not in any serious danger, however we're also a piddly minority. Industry has switched away from leaded solder and the world hasn't ended, so why should there be an exception to the rules for a few stubborn users?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 07:45:03 pm
content: Well, the big, legitimate exception is for repairs: since a) alloys with only trace amounts of lead (as happens when residual lead solder mixes into a lead-free joint) are brittle, and b) components and PCBs designed for lead solder may not withstand the higher temperatures of lead-free soldering, it is highly inadvisable to use lead-free solder to repair devices originally assembled with lead solder. That’s why RoHS expressly permits lead solder to be used for repairs, and for lead solder to be sold. (It only bans its use in new products.)REACH, having entirely different ambitions, makes no such distinction. Stupid IMHO.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 11, 2021, 07:45:03 pmIt is not stupid, it fits into modern politics: you do not need to repair, buy new things, otherwise the economy will be sated and collapse, and the money bags will not be able to get their next billion.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:28:05 pm
content: Lead is harmful. In sufficient quantities. But even when lead was used freely everywhere most people saw no detectable problems with lead poisoning. But those who lived near heavily travelled roads did suffer from the tetraethyl lead used in gasoline. Some, but not all people who had lead pipe plumbing had problems. Depended on both the water chemistry and their usage pattern (water dwell time in the pipes). And children who ate dirt around lead painted houses and chewed on the walls of such houses.By quantity lead in gasoline was by far the most usage. Orders of magnitude greater than others. Paint and plumbing next. Lead in ammunition was down the list. Electronics some where down in the decimal places. We have long since eliminated all of the real problems with lead exposure. These residual attacks on any lead use at all are a combination of theater and lack of understanding.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:40:37 pm
content: It's neither theater nor lack of understanding - it's bureaucracy. Once you create it, it gets a life of its own.In this case, they made some rules, they follow the rules. That's all it takes, nobody cares about lead.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 10:14:06 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 11, 2021, 09:40:37 pmThat's the trouble with society, we should have seen this coming, its always the bureaucrats who take the lead...

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 10:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 11, 2021, 09:40:37 pmIt seems to me from the outside that the European bureaucracy is successfully moving along the path of the USSR and is already surpassing it.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:55:09 am
content: Quote from: penfold on February 11, 2021, 10:14:06 pmIf I started a poll, most users of this forum would likely be in favor of banning sales of teratogens to consumers. Think of the children, think of the terrorist, think ofAnd it's the same everywhere and these are the people who then go on to elect those bureaucratic politicians and get what they deserve.As they say, monarchy can be good or evil depending on the ruler, but democracy is always dumb

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:23:29 pm
content: Next they'll be banning dihydrogen monoxide ,i meen it sounds pretty nasty stuff as it kills thousands of people every year.Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of dihydrogen monoxide ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. dihydrogen monoxide withdrawal means certain death. And lets not forget it accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals,it can cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of vehicle brakes.It is the major component of acid rain and is used as an industrial coolant

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: magic on February 12, 2021, 08:55:09 amI very much doubt that. I think this forum leans quite heavily on the side of personal responsibility and away from heavy regulation.What I think most people would agree with is banning dangerous ingredients in consumer products that people expect to be inherently safe, like toys, clothing, toiletries, food, etc.So no lead allowed in toys, but lead solder allowed.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 11, 2021, 12:44:27 pmJust becauseyoumanaged to survive doesn't mean that a lot of kids didn't.I see whinging about how all of the playgrounds here in the US have gotten rid of many of the old play structures, and replaced the concrete pads with the softer recycled rubber, and all of the whingers say, "kids today, they're weak,ididn't get hurt!" And that ignores the kids who did. Who were hurt seriously enough for those old structures to be outlawed and for safer structures to be mandated.Am I glad my kid has safer play environments? Absolutely. Am I glad he hasn't broken any bones or lost any teeth like many of my friends did? Absolutely.tl;dr: OK, boomer.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:55:12 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 12, 2021, 03:57:16 pmIt leans away from heavy regulation but the assertion about "personal responsibility" is made without facts in evidence.it's more like "freedom to do whatever the fuck I want, fuck the man."

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on February 12, 2021, 07:55:12 pmIt would be a very different story if authorities were more open and honest about policies such as these. Soldering is listed by the UK-HSE as not "significant exposure to lead" and the quantities of lead solder consumed by "consumers"(which I'm interpreting as hobbyists) is surely minimal compared with all other sources of lead into the landfill waste stream... surely there is another reason

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 11, 2021, 09:28:05 pmThat's how it always is. Any sort of program or movement created to solve some problem takes on a life of its own and does not simply go away once it has accomplished the goal it was created to accomplish. It will start digging deeper and deeper looking for problems it can solve.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:18:29 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on February 12, 2021, 07:51:32 pmI struggle to think of a more condescending and stupid dismissive comment as "OK, boomer", it tends to make me think a person who says it is a smug moron, and I'm not even a boomer. It's just disrespectful, and a euphemism for "shut up idiot" or something along those lines.The soft rubber pads on playgrounds is a nice improvement. Removing all the play structures that anyone could ever possibly get hurt on is stupid. I'm really glad I grew up in the 80s-90s instead of now, the bizarre obsession with safety beyond any sensible degree has just gone to ridiculous levels. You'd think bodies were piled up in heaps on playgrounds across the nation. Kind of circles back to my previous comment on organizations/efforts taking on a life of their own. Having solved more serious problems they start going after increasingly petty "problems".

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 11:49:57 pm
content: I've long had the theory that the "Hot Wheels" style tricycles were/are the cause of many serious automobile accidents. The low center of gravity of this style tricycle makes them much safer for young children. And because of this they learn and try many crazy things that would have resulted in bumps, bruises, broken bones and worse on the older style tricycles. Those opportunities to learn the relationship between actions and consequences must be learned later when the consequences are much more severe and the potential for learning may not be as great. Those young years are called the formative years for a reason.The same theory applies to many of the safety features that have been mandated over the years.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 12:18:17 am
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on February 11, 2021, 04:34:29 pmDo you not have a local recycling facility? I would never throw electronics waste in the trash, it all goes to the recycling depot.https://www.recyclenow.com/dont-bin-it-bring-ithttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Waste_Recycling_Fee

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:07:35 am
content: cider, red meat and cigarettes

author: zl2wrw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:27:39 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on February 11, 2021, 06:25:32 pmAs far as "health hazards" are concerned, the whole point of bullets is to be dangerous (if you couldn't use them to tear a hole through an animal from a distance, they would be kinda useless...), but arguably there is nothing to be gained by having a bullet continue to be dangerous for quite some length of time after it has been fired and has come to a stop.Part of the concern about lead in indoor ranges is not just the projectiles, but the primers (the part of the cartridge that ignites the gunpowder when struck by the firing pin) - Lead Styphnate is a common priming composition, and you can probably figure out what happens to the lead when the priming composition burns...(Mercury Fulminate used to be used for primers before lead styphnate was common, but it was replaced with lead styphnate mostly because of corrosion issues with firearm barrels rather than concerns about mercury exposure)As far as outdoor shooting is concerned, there are also concerns about environmental lead contamination. Rain water picks up CO2 from the air forming (dilute) Carbonic Acid, which reacts with metallic lead to form Lead Carbonate (which is water soluble). In New Zealand, when hunting waterfowl, it is illegal to use lead shotgun pellets because waterfowl swallow small stones, about the size of shotgun pellets, and use these to grind up food inside their crop. In California, hunters have to use non-lead bullets because of concerns about scavengers like the California Condor ingesting lead fragments in the entrails etc left behind by hunters.Quite recently our great illustrious leaders here in NZ banned steel shotgun pellets (and pretty much all other steel ammunition), but after a small farce, they had to go back and change the rules so that steel shotgun pellets were specifically exempted from the ban

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:30:00 am
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on February 14, 2021, 12:27:39 amThis is what happens when you legislate without comprehension. Are they related to Yansi, by any chance?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:41:37 am
content: Quote from: zl2wrw on February 14, 2021, 12:27:39 amI can understand banning lead, at least in certain instances, or perhaps they could compromise and make reduced lead ammo made of some kind of alloy, but steel? What was their reasoning for banning steel pellets? Iron decomposes in the natural environment and as far as I know it's quite harmless.I would go so far as to say a majority of our lawmakers are not very knowledgeable about the things they legislate, and the laws tend to be rushed through on emotion after some incident without sufficient time being taken to consider unintended consequences. The result is a great many laws that do not accomplish their intended goal, and in many cases make the problem worse or create other worse problems. I'd be kind of surprised if the situation was much better in other countries, I tend to think politicians are pretty similar no matter where you go.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:42:38 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 14, 2021, 12:41:37 amARMOUR PIERCING!!!!!!!!1111

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:45:47 am
content: How would one manufacture resin core solder, anyway?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 07:54:09 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 12, 2021, 03:57:16 pmLike with DHMO, it's just a matter of asking the right question such that lead isn't mentionedSo forget lead. What about all the nasty mutagenic stuff which causes children to be born with no hands and five eyes all around their head. Do you really think such evil stuff should just be available on shelves for everyone to buy? What if pregnant women ingest it by accident? What if Ahmed adds it to municipal water supply? Wouldn't it be a good idea to just ensure that teratogens in general stay where they belong, in closely controlled labs?You don't hate unborn children, do you?Yes, every place on the Internet and IRL has a contingent of outspoken libertarians who immediately come to answer something about "responsibility" or "Darwin". Then the silent majority votes their own way.And yes, sometimes you would be surprised what kind of nanny-staters you will find even of forums very similar to this one. And you never know how many of them are reading your posts, greeting their teeth quietly, and later go elsewhere to rant about responsibility being a codeword of colonialism, toxic masculinity or other bullshit.Yeah, I guess I have lost faith in modern society entirely

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 01:46:03 am
content: I mean mass market anti lead seems good enough, trying to pinch off the engineering department makes little sense, those are not mass market prototypes. Lead solder just works better, leave it for the factory engineer to figure out how to make it work with lead free optimally and let engineers and repair people use lead since it basically amounts to nothing in the environment?This is how it goes:Prototype count : 50Engineering check list :-finalize design for ROHS compatabilityManufacturing count : 500 million.Alright like the amount of stupid reflow ovens and stuff in development labs and the amount of overhead needed for 'good' lead free work will pollute the environment more then the small amount of lead used. Usually with lead there is no problems with lead free you practically need good tools unless you wanna deal with bogies related to solder bridges and other crap. There really are better things you can use the money allocated to policing engineering people with ROHS that would have a far better and more immediate environmental impact. I call it the 'get real' policy. If you make everything in R&D the same as 'mass market' design you will get NO WHERE.There is a guy for turning a mechanical design into cheap thin gauge oragami mechanically, this guy does and should continue to exist for electrical bonding. To me its like someone saying "oh yea we won't allow you 1/8 inch plate to make backbones anymore, you need to figure out how to make everything from 22 gauge steel in the lab". So then instead of a drill and a tap set (wow thats actually pretty high end!!) you roll out the presses, dies, sheet metal cutters and benders. Memo: tin smith training begins on tuesday.I have seen people that were perfectly suited for doing a job with lead be driven to basic rage from having to deal with lead free solder. Less training = better. You can have a salary and equipment budget that way.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 10:12:07 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on February 15, 2021, 01:46:03 amThe "ban" only applies to non-professional uses at present, so it still allows for use in prototype dev, just so long as you can prove you're not just a hobbyist

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 12:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 10:12:07 amI hear you, but I think it should be the REVERSE! 'Hobbyists' soldering a few components/wires at HOME, is notthe problem, and probably wont end up in landfill. However, the huge 'registered' Companies that manufacturemultiple millions of devices/circuits worldwide, are the ones that should be limited!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:52:16 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 14, 2021, 12:45:47 amHuh? We can and do...

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:33:06 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on February 15, 2021, 12:17:31 pmBut they ARE limited, have been for a long time now. (See RoHS for example.)

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 15, 2021, 03:33:06 pmYes, restricted from selling stuff containing lead to consumers (I've not needed to check recently but I assume even the remaining exemptions have been revoked for telecoms and other non-consumer stuff?), but professionals have never been restricted in purchasing it for prototype and legacy rework/repair stuff at their own discretion.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 05:23:12 pm
content: btw gnif you should turn that lead into work plates and hammers, they are useful tools in the shop for doing clean work.vise jawlead hammer setlead work plate (be sure to cast it with a RS logo on it for maximum grip on odd shaped parts that will dig into the various crevices of the letters).if you want a good no slip no mar surface for doing something like drilling holes in a PCB look no further then a lead plate. Or if you need to push the PCB into something while yanking something off lead works good (you can make some lead blocks and other things also) the lead hammer is the one least likely to damage anything in your shop.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 06:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 10:12:07 amBut hobbyists frequently are the ones repairing old gear that was done with leaded solder.Whatever the case I'm glad I don't have to deal with that level of nanny state nonsense over here, I can still get leaded solder easily. I should probably stock up on a few rolls in case that changes. I've never been satisfied with the results of lead free. I don't eat it and I do my best to fix stuff to keep it OUT of the landfill.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 07:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 15, 2021, 06:23:01 pmI know, hence why I'm on the side of "this rule would be far less ludicrous if there was a cohesive foundation to it", if it was dangerous to use then they need to update professional H&S guidelines, if its to reduce lead in landfill bound waste then they need to redo their maths or consult the EU heavy-metals in waste contamination report they commissioned.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 07:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 15, 2021, 06:23:01 pmMaybe first-generation lead-free was bad, but modern lead-free solder works just fine, honestly, with the caveat that the joints are not expected to be mirror-shiny. No, it's notquiteas nice to work with as leaded, but it's not the nightmare many people make it out to be. This is, of course, assuming you're using a high quality solder brand.However, I would decidedly advise against using lead-free to repair equipment originally assembled with leaded solder. The components may not have been designed to handle the lead-free temperatures, and mixing the two results in weaker joints.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 07:46:09 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 07:18:53 pmAgain, it's not ONE rule. The entire issue is that two entirely distinct regulations are at work here. Each one IS cohesive within itself. They don't really tie into each other because they each have entirely different goals.See what I wrote early in this thread:Quote from: tooki on February 11, 2021, 06:28:54 pmQuote from: tooki on February 11, 2021, 07:45:03 pm

author: Keith956
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 08:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 10, 2021, 09:05:09 pmI had no trouble ordering 60/40 solder from RS last week. It's definitely not banned in the UK.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 09:28:11 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 15, 2021, 07:46:09 pmI am not questioning whether or not the restriction is triggered by either RoHS or REACH, I am expressing scepticism whether or not the true justification for the ban was that it's deemed an "uncontrolled risk" under RoHS and REACH. Recycling schemes currently exist which are considered adequate risk mitigation for preventing old lead containing electronic equipment entering landfills and evidence linking any cases of lead poisoning to leaded solder is somewhat lacking.If you consider that lead roofing materials are still available, and the replacement of such items is not restricted to professionals and it DOES put the DIYer in direct contact with lead compounds which are readily absorbed by the body, again which electronics soldering does not according to the statement from HSE. It now becomes a question of how one is considered an uncontrolled risk for the general public and not the other.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 10:06:44 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 09:28:11 pmAs best I can tell, listing under REACH is about inherent human and environmental toxicity of a compound, not about net risk after risk mitigation.I don't know under what justification lead roofing materials could be exempted from REACH. However, what constitutes "restricting purchase by the general public" seems to vary wildly. Anecdotally, it seems that many distributors that cater primarily to professionals will take your word for it that you're a professional, and sell it to you anyway.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 11:28:41 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 15, 2021, 10:06:44 pmWe might be on crossed wires because to say "...listing under..." is quite different to saying "...restricted as a result of..." which is where risk mitigation comes in

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 11:50:08 pm
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 11:28:41 pmThe relevant part of REACH is Annex XVII, which is the part that actually restricts trade in it. Here's the entry for lead:https://echa.europa.eu/substances-restricted-under-reach/-/dislist/details/0b0236e1807e30a6What's weird is that thedraft explanatory documentfor that made it clear that it was focused on items that babies could mouth.But the Swiss chemical trade association'spress releasesays that the EU lead consortium's guidance on Annex XVII compliance expressly listed lead solder as a product whose reclassification (as a listed material) requires it to be restricted from consumer sale.The other thing is something called Article 33.https://www.tsgconsulting.com/news-detail/lead-on-reach-candidate-list/But honestly, what a f••king mess of a regulation, in the sense that it seems to me to be a web of various rules.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 12:26:27 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 15, 2021, 11:50:08 pmIKR, but application of reach is down to the member states (and those who.. err.. aren't), the REACH document itself is very prescriptive in areas, but any exemption or restriction is nearly impossible to attribute to any one source yet all states seem to have the same outcome.Its maybe just some perceived lack of objectivity I'm imagining the authorities having when considering whether "soldering" is a worthwhile task for a hobbyist and perhaps to a layperson which swung the restriction rather than considering the facts and mitigation for lead/lead-free. This is where my backing falls apart, because a) all I need to do to use lead solder is pick it up off my day-job workbench (and pretend I didn't) and b) I'm not totally against lead-free, it just not as nice. But something makes me think the powers that be weren't considering the pros and cons objectively. If that makes sense. Especially when weighed against roof flashing strips being the task with an actual likelihood of exposure.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 12:39:56 am
content: Oh, you make total sense. Had anyone with two technical brain cells to rub together been in charge of RoHS, it would never have banned lead in electronics, since they would have realized that the overwhelming bulk of lead in electronics was in CRTs, which were very clearly on their way out, and were indeed nearly entirely obsolete by the time RoHS took effect. There was definitely no objectivity at play.I know even less about REACH, just that it's a much bigger Jabba the Hutt of a law.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 01:22:14 am
content: people do burn PCBs but the problem is like 150 smart phone boards being toasted at the same time inside of a barrel all day every day in some village

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 09:33:54 am
content: Quote from: penfold on February 15, 2021, 03:51:16 pmPlease read the quote you replied to, no need to run in circles with obvious facts.

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 12:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on February 17, 2021, 09:33:54 amI agree it was somewhat pedantic, but with regard to the actual topic, without a distinction between "restriction of purchase" and "restriction of sales", your statement offered no clarification.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 01:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 15, 2021, 11:50:08 pmMy guess is that any idea surrounding banning the sale of solder wasprimarilyfocused on banning the sale of leaded plumbing solder. Leaded solder for electronics being sold to consumers was probably never even really properly considered by the crafters of such legislation.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 08:38:09 pm
content: Quote from: drussell on February 17, 2021, 01:23:26 pmYou might be right, although I think it's been years since I've seen leaded plumbing solder in stores. I wonder how much of the lead actually makes it into the water, I'm guessing it must be not much. My house is all copper plumbing with leaded solder.

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 09:14:21 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 17, 2021, 08:38:09 pmVery,verylittle, at least under normal chemical conditions, especially when you're just talking about joints.Places like Flint still have actualPIPESmade of lead that are somewhat surprisingly even historically normally reasonably safe because of the passivization layer that builds up on the inside... No significant amount of lead typically actually leaches into the water from these systems under "normal" circumstances. The issue in Flint was the disaster of introducing completely different-than-historic, insufficiently treated, chemically reactive water into what is essentially such a carefully balanced system.Not that I'm saying it's good to everintentionallyput lead in direct contact with your water supply given the science which we now know and new jointswillleach some small amount of lead into the water before it becomes mostly inert, but on just ajointthat should be very minimal overall exposure. Lead pipes themselves does seem like a bit of a bad idea in hindsight even though they were once cheap and flexy, easy to install I suppose?

author: drussell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 09:16:17 pm
content: Oh yeah, I forgot to add...Quote from: james_s on February 17, 2021, 08:38:09 pm"Mine too..."

author: penfold
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 09:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 17, 2021, 08:38:09 pmI think you're on to something there. As drussell stated that a properly made lead joint won't leach anything significant into the water, however I've heard there are combinations of fluxes that don't readily wash out during purge and cause significant corosion over time, presumably resulting in compounds that enter the bloodstream... I just can't find any references to which fluxes they may be

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2021, 08:33:06 pm
content: I am a US Physician who was definitely involved in occupational lead exposure control. There are still lead PIPES everywhere. All the cities had mostly lead pipes. Only newer communities have plastic pipes and even those communities may get their water from the old system. Remember, Plumber comes from the Latin word for Lead. There are some theories that lead exposure brought down the Roman Empire.The Flint, Michigan exposure came from switching the water from the usual source, which was the Detroit Water System, to a local river, which had been polluted from industrial use a long time ago (and could dissolve the lead in the old pipes)I don't know who thought the river water was OK, nobody in Michigan who I know of would drink from any river near Flint. I am from Michigan.I would imagine the use of lead pipes was universal outside of the US also.Lead leaches into the water if the water is acidic. Otherwise it does not leach out in any quantity.Some ceramic (homemade pottery mostly) had lead in the glaze and this could leach out if you used the bowl for something like tomato sauce. Pewter tableware had lead in it in the past and lots of it is still in use. Never serve Gazpacho in hand made ceramics.Burning batteries for recycling has always been a big contributor to workplace lead exposure and there are special rules and process for dealing with this exposure. Lead is remelted from old, dead batteries.Lead was banned from car bodies because of the occupational exposure, smoothing out the lead joints meant grinding at some point which put the lead into the air quite efficiently.Lead slag on top of molten solder pots is an issue because it is discarded and turn easily to dust.Hand soldering, even in mass production, has never been shown to be a risk from lead fumes, but hand to mouth is certainly the risk and there are OSHA rules for these occupations. Wash your hands before dinner is just one of the rules that applies to us.Chemicals do leach out of plastic pipes also but the compounds disappear from the water after using the pipes for maybe a few weeks.

author: Keith956
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2021, 04:26:50 am
content: Quote from: james_s on February 17, 2021, 08:38:09 pmA bit like 'How much mercury in tooth fillings is absorbed over the years'. Arguably removing it is more dangerous than leaving it there.

author: CambridgeMart
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2021, 11:17:16 am
content: I also fell foul of the RS refusing to ship leaded solder to 'non professional' users and being hit with a postage charge because it reduced the order value belowe £30. The irony is that I am a professional engineer as well as a hobbyist, but I don't run a business (I'm sure many of us are in the same boat), so the rule has become that they will only sell to registered businesses regardless of whether there's anyone qualified in the business or not.As far as the environmental aspect is concerned, where does lead come from in the first place? Granted it's not pure lead in most cases, but lead sulphide (galena), but that doesn't make it any less harmful.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2021, 09:48:32 pm
content: Quote from: CambridgeMart on April 16, 2021, 11:17:16 amIn my case I was purchasing it for my business, a business which is registered and designs electronics, but they still did not want to sell it to me! I tried click and collect first, and was told it had to be posted, then when I tried to get it posted they just removed it from the order without even telling me.After a strongly worded message, they still did not reply or communicate in any way, they just shipped it and charged me the right amount, being free postage.I now have enough solder to see me for many years. I think I will try various dodgy sources on AliExpress before I buy from RS again...

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2021, 10:57:38 pm
content: My advice to anyone encountering this issue, get Mechanic 63/37 solder from Aliexpress:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000808497448.htmlor this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000273337131.htmlTheir solder is of excellent quality, and I've had nothing but good experience with it!

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2021, 12:31:13 am
content: Just a delayed followup.RS did give me an account with them, but I had to prove I was a business (provide my ABN, etc). So while this was a solution for me, many people will still be left unable to order products containing lead. When the solder was finally shipped it came with a ton of documentation on the "hazardous" material, basically stating that if I am caught improperly disposing of it that I will be prosecuted, etc.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2021, 11:41:04 am
content: Quote from: gnif on April 17, 2021, 12:31:13 amI have just decided to not buy from them any more. Had they sentanymessage letting me know in advance that this was a policy, giving me time to respond, then I might not have decided that. As it was, even though I am a business and have an account, they just didn't ship it and didn't even respond after being contacted. Stuff 'em.Now I will go to a marketplace that has less concern over that sort of thing, like AliExpress or eBay. I suspect this will be a wider 'unexpected consequence' of the legislation.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2021, 11:00:27 pm
content: How long until lead-free rolls sold with fake 63/37 labels start showing up?

author: Matt Coates
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2021, 11:06:49 pm
content: Somerset solders are really good -https://www.somersetsolders.com/Give them a ring and let them know you're a 'professional user' and they will happily sell you leaded paste and solder. Its well priced, great quality and freshly delivered from Qualitek. Most paste I've ordered from Farnell/Rs has been very close to expiry after sitting in the warehouse for many months.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2021, 02:02:25 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on February 11, 2021, 06:01:50 pmIt's not about the danger to the person being shot. It's the 99.99% of rounds spent in training or practice -- often at outdoor target ranges where they are just shot into a dirt mound.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2021, 02:29:13 am
content: Lead solder is mainly a problem in Europe where they like to incinerate trash. During this the lead is vaporized and like with most gases scrubbing is a matter of percentages, not whether you remove it all since that's impossible. Solid lead is harmless, you can handle it all day without problems. Lead bullets don't cause lead poisoning - you bleed out if you're shot, poisoning is really not a concern. The real problem is when you poke holes in the meat bag, the bullets themselves are sometimes left in place. The main problem is when it's used on ranges small amounts of it is turned to dust or vaporized, which makes it bioavailable. Just lead bullets themselves are not a concern - you could eat them and just poop them out the other end; they're not bioavailable. Copper jackets are likely to cause more problems. The problem with lead paint is it contains lead alloys that are highly bioavailable, taste sweet, and is difficult to keep away from children who might eat it like candy and hence can get huge doses of it - not like the naturally occurring trace amounts. Steel bullets are a problem in dry climes since they tend to spark fires when they hit rocks. (And believe it not, ingesting bioavailable iron in sufficient quantities will similar to lead cause iron poisoning.) For this reason shooting ranges tend to ban them.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2021, 03:37:06 am
content: Quote from: bson on April 18, 2021, 02:29:13 amYou guys incinerate about 32Mt of waste a year yourselves. And that's only the municipal figure - apparently you don't bother gathering figures on industrial waste.