Update: Hard disk recovery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: orbanp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 06:47:08 pm
content: Hello Everyone,The power supply on my desktop computer went (it just would not turn on one morning) and it looks like it took the hard drives with it.While I have backup, it is not the latest, and I would like to recover the data from the hard drive.The hard drive I would like to recover is a WD 1TB Black Caviar SATA 3.5" drive, about half a year old. (The other drive was a failing 1TB WD Blue Caviar, about 5 years old, that I had on the computer too, the data was saved from it previously, and I have no further interest in that drive.)I replaced the PS, the computer starts up, but the drives are not seen by the computer.As last time I bought two identical drives, I moved over the electronic board from the unused drive to the failed one, and the computer booted up.I hope and wonder if I can save the data from that failed disk with that temporary replacement electronic board on it.My concern is that in that electronic board, with the drive firmware on it, they probably store "local" information about the platters in the disk, mapping out non-working sections, but still presenting to the user a "good logical disk".Obviously, now that local information about the platters is from another drive.Any words of wisdom on what to expect? Is the above assumption correct?These are so called "smart disks" (I have not really noticed it), is it going to try to remap again sections? Will I end up with two unusable disk?(So far I only saw that the login screen shows up, and shut it down after that, have not used the computer.)I am also curious that how only the drives got damaged, and not the rest of the computer? (I guess I still have to fully verify this.)Thanks for listening, Peter

author: Toasty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 07:28:56 pm
content: If it gets to the login screen, I'd say you're okay (and lucky). Clone the drive immediately.Bad sector / remap is stored on the disk in the MBR.THere:https://www.howtogeek.com/134735/how-to-see-if-your-hard-drive-is-dying/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 07:43:26 pm
content: Don't move boards. Check if some SMT fuse and/or TVS diode is blown. If you are lucky, it may be an easy fix.

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 07:55:59 pm
content: I've heard that board swaps don't work because of the exact reason you state, though sometimes there's an EEPROM you can unsolder and swap that contains the information needed in it. Certainly every time I've attempted a board swap it didn't work.If the data is important to you, you have to send the drives to professionals to recover it. Attempting anything yourself can make it worse.Do the drives spin up? Sometimes its just the suppression Diode on the power input that fails and you can remove it.

author: carl_lab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 08:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: Kevman on September 26, 2017, 07:55:59 pmBut attempting anything yourself also can make it worse.If it is very important data, let the professionals do their homework.Just my 2 cents...

author: Toasty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 08:52:27 pm
content: Press the hard drive to your ear and apply power. Any noises other than spin-up and a brief head movement? No grinding or clicking!Do you have any good drives lying about? Hook that to the computer and see if it's recognized.How old is the motherboard? Could the PSU have damaged it? Did the BIOS get reset by a bad onboard battery failure?If you swap -identical- hard drive controller boards, there should be no issue. You have to match the labels, except for the serial number.Check the chips to see if they are matching also.What country are you from? There's no flag in your profile....TPS: Could the BIOS have been reset to AHCI where it was SATA? I've seen that cause an unrecognized drive problem too.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 09:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: Toasty on September 26, 2017, 08:52:27 pmNo issue other than you may have 2 bricked drives after that, both failed drive and corrupted donor board.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 09:24:13 pm
content: Quote from: Toasty on September 26, 2017, 08:52:27 pmBeat me to itI've never seen or heard of a clapped out PSU taking out drives,just a loss of DC power to the drivesTry the suspect hard drives on another computer or hook them up via a USB adapterGood Luck

author: Toasty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 09:29:53 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2017, 09:13:37 pmIn my experience, I've never had that issue. The controller is not "written to" unless you flash it.I've swapped boards between hard drive "model number" matches and had "not recognized". But when usingidentical, as I described, there are no issues.T

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 09:41:13 pm
content: Quote from: Toasty on September 26, 2017, 09:29:53 pmThat depends on HDD model. If you were doing this blindly, you should have pretty good luck. Or just did not figure out you made problem tenfold worse for the drive needing data recovery.

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2017, 10:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: carl_lab on September 26, 2017, 08:26:32 pmWhoops, meant to say "Worse", not "work."

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 02:10:42 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on September 26, 2017, 09:41:13 pmIn my experience on swapping boards, I have noticed that modern HDDs with identical model numbers and very similar serial numbers were successful in retrieving data (a few I have here are running for 3+ years with swapped boards). The ratio of success was severely reduced with old HDDs, but you could at least recover a great deal of data by using a low level disk editing software (think of "Norton Utilities" type of software).

author: Toasty
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 02:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 27, 2017, 02:10:42 pmYes!Back when Norton wasn't bloatware!T

author: orbanp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 04:20:24 pm
content: Hello Everyone,First of all I would like to thank for everyone for the valuable information and advise!Hopefully things are clearer now!Here are some answers and other info, in no specific order.The PC is about 10 years old, I built it with an ASUS M2n-SLI MB with AMD dual core processor, and I think with an ATI graphics card. It is still running WXP Professional.The board sees other good SATA drives.I heard from a friend of my son, who did tech support at a surplus store, that they did swap control boards on Seagate HDs, and it worked for them (no data on how well, how long, e.t.c.)The drives I swapped the boards from have the same part number and even the production date is the same!Did some measurements on the failed board and on the good one.It looks like the failed board has trouble with the +5V line.I enclose a picture of the board.R67, at the bottom-middle, marked "000" is a resistor, or a "fuse", from the +5V input connectors, the three pins below that resistor. The resistor itself is (and measures) 0 Ohm, but if I measure at the pads, the resistance is about 80 Ohm or so. Looks like the soldering took a hit.At the other end of R67, the internal +5V, there is a diode, D2, to the ground. That diode is shorted. As "wraper" suggested, it looks like it is a Zener Transient Voltage Suppressor. It is marked 6AA 37. from ON Semi, but could not find exact datasheet. The marking is probably just a snippet of the full part number.Did find other SMD ON Semi ZTVSs that are meant for +5V.As for the HD board, I plan to touch up the soldering of R67 and will try to remove the diode. I see if I can scavenge a similar diode from another hard drive that is past of its prime.Hopefully my "SMD rework skills" are good enough for this. Luckily that diode is quite big!The PS that failed is a Coolmax V-500 unit. It is reviewed (and thoroughly trashed) on this web-site:<http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/coolmax-v-500-power-supply-review/>Mine is a bit different, probably an earlier version, with a bit beefier components (I guess it did not help!).Internally the board was marked as a 450W supply!So far I only checked for elco ESRs (all fine), and the power transistors, those are fine too. Will dig into that later...I will keep you posted!Thanks again for the help!Peter

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 04:47:53 pm
content: TVS diode is not needed for drive operation. You can safely just remove it given that current PSU is fine, and recover data. If you plan to use this HDD further, then it is advisable to replace it. TVS diode marking appears to match SMBJ5.0D (exactly what it is supposed to be) according to Vishay datasheet. But strange that it is made buy ON semi and marking does not match their 600W TVS diodes.

author: andy2000
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 04:51:13 pm
content: In my experience with WD drives, there's a small serial EEPROM that will need to be swapped for it to work. If you don't, the drive will spin up, and make the usual clicking noise of a dead hard drive. I assume it contains some kind of calibration data for the heads and disks.

author: orbanp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 09:34:56 pm
content: Well, it looks like that the drive now works with its own controller board!The computer boots up with it, but have not tested it exhaustively.I did remove that shorted diode and re-soldered that 0 Ohm resistor.Still have to find a TVS diode and install it. DigiKey has it.The same diode on the blue drive was also shorted, and there was a hole in one of the ICs. There the 0 Ohm resistor did not let go, it was a bigger size one.Would not be surprised to find some other dead components in the computer, like the DVD-drive, e.t.c.Will see!Thanks again for the help!Regards, Peter

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2017, 09:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: orbanp on September 27, 2017, 09:34:56 pmGood news matehope you retrieve every byte !

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 12:52:05 am
content: Glad to hear you had it sorted!But I do hope you've learned a valuable lesson from this unfortunate experience.Firstly, NEVER cheap out on PSUs! Buy only PSUs of reputable brands (Such as Seasonic/EVGA/Antec/Corsair), crappy PSU's have lousy protection, hence why it took down the HDD. It could've easily taken out the motherboard as well (Seen it happening many times!)And secondly, always maintain backups (as you just might need em when a disaster strikes!)

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 01:06:26 am
content: Congratulations on the recovery!Quote from: RayRay on September 28, 2017, 12:52:05 amI have seen build issues with EVGA, Antec and Corsair power supplies; brand alone does not guarantee quality - perhaps Seasonic, Seventeam and Delta may be more trustworthy, but I don't think that Delta sells under their own brand.Also, it seems the guy had backups, but not up to the last minute.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 01:33:40 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 28, 2017, 01:06:26 amWhat kind of issues are you referring to?Anyhow, having a quality PSU does guarantee that if wont fry any other components if it goes bad, that much is for sure.And yep, you seem to be right about him having some (non-recent) backups, totally missed out on that one.Still, he should improve his backup strategy IMO (so it'd be more frequent!)Quote from: rsjsouza on September 27, 2017, 02:10:42 pmI'd say you were just lucky!Nowadays, in a lot of cases, you'd need more than just a PCB swap (a ROM swap is often required as well), and this requires having a hot air station.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 03:46:41 am
content: Quote from: orbanp on September 27, 2017, 09:34:56 pmWell done. Now clone the drive onto a replacement and ditch the repaired unit.TVS failure is not uncommon, more so in the event of a catastrophic cause. Your drive has been exposed to out of specification power and you may still have milder damage elsewhere in the electronics with longer term reliability implications. Replace it while you still can if you value your data.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 04:00:07 am
content: Quote from: RayRay on September 28, 2017, 01:33:40 amErr.. no, it doesn't.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 05:50:57 am
content: Setup an automatic backup solution now.No time like the present to start backing up

author: ChrisLX200
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 05:58:30 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 28, 2017, 04:00:07 am+1. An Enermax PSU took out my MB, CPU and graphics card when it blew...ChrisH

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 06:57:42 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on September 28, 2017, 04:00:07 amIt does not guarantee but reduces chances of this by orders of magnitude.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2017, 07:50:30 am
content: Quote from: ChrisLX200 on September 28, 2017, 05:58:30 amFYI Enermax as well as other supposedly good companies sell PSUs made by several manufacturers and based on different platforms. Some of the lower end stuff often is not good at all and uses crap components.

author: orbanp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 06:40:15 pm
content: Just a quick update.Everything seems to be fine!I did get a new PS, an EVGA430W 80Plus. That was not the cheapest PS this time!I did clone the disk right away, the clone works fine too. I took out that drive, it is not in the computer.I will be backing up onto an external WD Passport drive. Hopefully this time I will be doing it more diligently than before.I left the rescued disk in the computer, I plan to use that one regularly and keep the cloned one. So far so good!I did get SMD ZTVS diodes, did measure the one that I put in, it works as a 6.5V Zener, so it is the right one.Here is a picture of the new ZTVS diode together with the old one, it looks a lot more substantial than the one originally installed.Nothing else got damaged in the computer, both DVD and CD drives/burners works fine.Still puzzled why only the HDs got damaged. Only thing I can think of that the HDs did not have any electrolytic caps on the power lines! Obviosly that ZTVS diode with the 0 Ohm resistor did not work as overvoltage protection for the transient that I had. Unfortunately I do not know what kind of transient was that killed those drives.I will also repair the old PS, but so far have not had time.Again many thanks for all who helped with their valuable suggestions and comments!Thanks, Peter

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 06:43:57 pm
content: Quote from: orbanp on October 13, 2017, 06:40:15 pmThe HDDs have, as you've seen, significant clamping which took most if not all the energy.