Comparison of primary cells (ZnC, NiMH, NiCd etc) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 01:06:00 am
content: I noticed in Dave's video blogs, that he's been using VARTA AA batteries.Recently, I decided these don't seem to carry much life in typical devices (micro voice recorder, TV remote etc).Has anyone compiled an objective comparison of cells available in Australia- (it probably needs to be revisited every couple of years for product variations etc)All types with brand, origin, model would ultimately be useful to a lot of buyers.Even an 'aged' matrix format poll could be viable - with users adding the pervasive +1 / -1 votes against each listing.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 01:55:51 am
content: Would it be helpful to mention that NiMH and NiCd are not primary cells, but secondary cells? (Primary cells are single use disposable cells, while secondary cells are rechargeable.)Let's suppose we are considering AA batteries. Single use first.In this case zinc chloride ("super heavy duty") cells carry so little energy in the AA format that we can forget them as obsolete.That leaves alkaline batteries. To a first approximation, all alkaline cells are similar in performance. Just pick the cheapest. Alkaline cells shine for long run time, low drain applications like clocks and remotes. They suck for high drain, short run time applications like cameras and things with motors.Next, consider rechargeable batteries.NiCd is obsolete and low capacity. No need to consider them.Then you have NiMH. These have twice the capacity. They come in two basic types: "original technology" and "low self-discharge". Forget the old technology type as they go flat if you leave them sitting for more than a month or two unused.So you have the low self-discharge type. Of these, by far and away the most reliable brand is Eneloop. They are predictable, they hold their charge almost forever, and they manage dozens or hundreds of recharges without failing.Once people have discovered the secret of Eneloops they never look back.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 04:18:16 am
content: Quote from: IanB on May 20, 2014, 01:55:51 amEnergizer L91/L92 AA/AAA Li/FeS2 primary batteries, perfect for high drain low duty cycle applications like remotes, torches, cameras, etc. And they do a nice 9V version for smoke detectors and multimeters!

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:09:05 am
content: For batteries from a (US) perspective, there are three worth buying (not counting LiPoly packs, etc):Kirkland Signature Alkaline AA cells (Costco)~ $0.14/cell, and one of the leading capacities out thereEnergizer L91 AA cellsFor a lithium primary AA "compatible" (they do start at 1.8V) chemistry, these rock. 10 year shelf life, great for low and high discharge. Shipped thousands of them in products. Expensive. Never, ever buy Chinese cells - QC and safety features are suspect, and we did have one explode.Sanyo/Panasonic Eneloop NiMH cellsLast forever, don't die mysteriously, hold a charge. Can't complain. There are knockoffs out there these days, so be aware. Avoid eBay.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:18:57 am
content: I forgot about the Energizer lithiums. They come in two varieties, Advanced and Ultimate. The Advanced are 2/3 the price of the Ultimate and have the same capacity at low to moderate loads. That makes the Advanced much better value.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:19:37 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on May 20, 2014, 01:06:00 amYou can find a fairly objective comparison here:http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.phpBut it is not country specific.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 07:50:50 am
content: Quote from: theatrus on May 20, 2014, 06:09:05 amMy vote goes for Energizer lithiums and Sanyo Eneloops as well.For primary cells/alkalines I have been using Panasonic Industrial's from digikey. Cheap enough ($0.24 per piece in 100pcs box) and no worries so far.

author: bitshape
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 10:16:17 am
content: For primary cells: Energizer Lithium Ultimate L91/AA & L92/AAA & Energizer Lithium L522MJ9V-block (Metal Jacket = long life version).For rechargeable cells: Panasonic Eneloop AA & AAA (= Sanyo Eneloop).Charger: Maha Powerex MH-C9000 (with thereplace_those_nasty_Fuhjyyu_lyticsmod).

author: electrophiliate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 10:21:15 am
content: I had one of those VARTA 15 minute ultrafast NiMH AA battery chargers in Dave's teardown video. It did not last that long, eventually there were a few loud (capacitor?) pops and that was it. I did not bother to repair it, instead I bought a more reliable but more expensive Energizer 1 hour NiMH charger (CH1HR-2 model) which has worked well. I do not use AA batteries much anymore, and the ultrafast charge did not seem to last as long as a slower charge (and the batteries got very hot!), but I had the impression that the VARTA batteries were simply not as good as those from Energizer or Duracell. I cannot really say which one of those brands of NiMH batteries is better though.

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 03:01:17 pm
content: Quote from: bitshape on May 20, 2014, 10:16:17 amHello bitshape,can you share some details about the mod?thanksquarks

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 03:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: quarks on May 20, 2014, 03:01:17 pm+1. Details appreciated!

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 03:40:42 pm
content: Eneloops also can do very high discharge.I shorted an AA (may be two, I forgot how many were in) by mistake and it actually brought the battery connectors to RED HOT.For a while, I was Eneloops only. But since they don't make 9V, I tried the TEnergy 9V. Six months later, my next purchase were TEnergy AAA - not Eneloops. For some applications for me, Eneloops are too expensive for the additional capability over TEnergy.I think Eneloops' recharge cycle at 1500 nominal was plenty (that's a practically a life time - almost 30 years if you recharge once a week), they need not push it to 1800. I rather they increase the capacity - I would prefer 2500mAH (AA size) at 1000 cycle than 2000mAH at 1500.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:19:18 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on May 20, 2014, 03:40:42 pmThat would be Eneloop pro, but they are only rated for 500 cycles.

author: bitshape
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2014, 10:53:20 am
content: Quote from: quarks on May 20, 2014, 03:01:17 pmOh, nothing too fancy, just after ending of the warranty-period I did the replacement of 3 Fuhjyyu (GP) capacitors inside this charger. I used genuine Panasonic FC capacitors for replacement. The power-brick I must do next to have upgraded all the Lytics with some longer life Japanese ones.The Maha C9000 is not going to charge 'better' with this mod if you liked to think that. Only 'endurance' may improve.

author: quarks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2014, 11:44:35 am
content: Hello bitshape,thanks for the infoHave you had a problem with the charger or why have you changed the capacitors?byequarks

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 06:28:11 am
content: Here's something I came across a couple of days ago.Not an available battery technology yet, but sounds interesting. Let's hope it does make it to market.http://powerjapanplus.com/about/news.htmlPower Japan Plus Reveals New Ryden Dual Carbon BatteryAlso, Panasonic 18650 LiIon batteries should be included in the comparisons here, you'd think.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 07:04:38 pm
content: Avoid Duracell AA cells as these seem to leak for a lot of people. I haven't seen an alkaline cell leak in decades until I saw Duracells in my remotes recently.Sony also makes a nice low self-discharge NiMH cell called CycleEnergy which are easier to find, at least for me in Montreal.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2014, 04:45:47 am
content: I've been usingtheselately, not too shabby, pretty cheap too.http://rightbattery.com/73-1-2v-aa-2400-mah-nimh-turnigy-lsd-battery-tests/http://budgetlightforum.com/node/9312

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2014, 01:31:56 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on May 23, 2014, 07:04:38 pmNot just their AA cells, their AAA cells and 9V too. Rarely does it leak, but once a while you get a cell that leaks and kills your electronics. I have at least two toys (my kid's toy), a wall clock, and a bath room scale that was killed by their battery leakage.I now use rechargeable only. I have yet to have one of those leaking.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 06:40:09 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on May 23, 2014, 06:28:11 amSounds almost too good to be true.Would be truly amazing if it would be non-lithium based.

author: denelec
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 11:32:51 pm
content: I've tested a lot of AA primary batteries a many years ago. Just for fun.They come in 4 families, according to their chemistries.I tested them by discharging them in 10.0 ohms resistors.Here's my conclusion:Regular carbon-zinc:Cheapest. Often leak once dead. Do not buy.Heavy-duty carbon-zinc:Twice as durable as regular carbon zinc. Less prone to leaking.Alkaline:Three time as durable as heavy-duty carbon-zinc.Lithium:Flat discharge curve. Not significantly better than alkaline in low current applications.The variations of performance between brands is small; something like 20% difference between the best and the worst within the same chemistry.For most applications, the best value is to buy the cheapest alkaline you can find.Lithium make sense only in high load applications. But in that case, you could use rechargeable NiMH.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 09:38:38 am
content: Quote from: denelec on May 27, 2014, 11:32:51 pmOr really low load applications with +10years battery life

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 10:29:35 am
content: There is one place more where lithium makes sense and that is in very cold locations.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 08:33:15 pm
content: Quote from: mzzj on May 28, 2014, 09:38:38 amAlkaline such as Duracell and even house brand (e.g. Kirkland/Costco) now have 10 year rated shelf life for a much lower cost.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 08:45:59 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on May 28, 2014, 08:33:15 pmBut alkaline cells leak. That renders them dangerous to use in anything you value. (The most recent item of mine damaged by leaking alkaline cells was my central heating controller.)So I see two choices for smaller sizes like AA or 9 V:1. For high drain devices or anything with reasonably frequent battery changes, use rechargeable (Eneloop).2. For low drain, low maintenance devices like smoke alarms, use lithium.For things that need D cells use alkaline, but try to use Japanese cells like Fuji or Sony, keep them outside the device unless it is in use, and keep a close eye on them.