3d Pocketcopter  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pm
content: Saw this today:https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/3d-pocketcopter-the-flying-camera2 "Software / Web / Marketing guys" and 1 "micro electrician" want to create a coaxial copter with a 3D camera - pocket sized 19 x 4.5cm.Wifi / Bluetooth12V Battery (=min. 3 cells)!25min flight time.Water resistantCost 89 Euro.NO real development done yet, only some renderings.Want to deliver May 2015.I'd say very unrealistic, what do you think?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 04:10:57 pm
content: I am only sorry for the fools that gave these guys 110k already.They will most likely never see neither the copter nor the money. No engineering experience in the team, the device should have flight time of 25 minutes, but there is no specified mass - in no way could they fit a meaningful battery, motor, gearbox, radios and a camera into a pen-sized form factor. Even a thick marker would be extremely difficult if not impossible.I do wonder how they want to steer the thing, the computer rendered images show only two coaxial rotors, with no swash plate assembly on neither of the rotors.If this is not outright scam, these guys have absolutely no idea how to manufacture something like that. But they got 110k EUR for it already!.BTW, the video interview in the campaign is completely unrelated (they claim it as inspiration). It is from German TV, they guy is Prof. Rechenberg (TU Berlin), he doesn't have anything to do with this project. I wonder whether they got permission to use the video for their commercial pitch.

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2014, 06:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 20, 2014, 04:10:57 pmI am pretty sure they did NOT ask for permission.That TV show aired beginning of this year - not much time for newbies to work out such an idea in their spare time

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 09:55:41 pm
content: Those blades have a uniform cross-section and no tilt....

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 08:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: Whales on September 22, 2014, 09:55:41 pmYeah, they are perfectly flat, so that certainly wouldn't fly. But as it was an "artistic impression" of the product, not CAD, I was willing to let that slide. The lack of any steering mechanism is a significant issue, though.

author: sunnyhighway
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 10:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 20, 2014, 04:10:57 pmI guess they will be using CoG (Center of Gravity) steering.Here is some good reading about CoG steering on Coaxial Helicopters:http://www.dei.unipd.it/~emg/downloads/SIMPAR08-nuovo/MiniAndMicroUAV/Bermes.pdf

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 10:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: sunnyhighway on September 23, 2014, 10:00:31 pmThey won't get the thing (well, assuming they will actually try to build anything) off the ground unless they'll be using magical fairy dust as well.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 03:04:56 pm
content: Quote from: sunnyhighway on September 23, 2014, 10:00:31 pmRight, but that requires some significant moving mass that is off-axis from the main rotor(s). There isn't much space (if any) for that in the pen-sized tube they are showing.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 03:26:00 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on September 24, 2014, 03:04:56 pmBTW - While it might be pen-shaped, it's certainly not pen-sized. Reading through the comments, that tube is actually 5cm x 20cm...it's pretty damn big.

author: Dongulus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 03:51:46 pm
content: The particular design that this project seems to have been inspired by appears at the 6' minute mark of the German interview video. The pilot looks to have decent control of the steering. Does anyone have any speculation on how the steering on the German design works?

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 08:21:51 pm
content: Quote from: Dongulus on September 24, 2014, 03:51:46 pmBy employing a proper (although simplified to cyclic control only) swashplate assembly on the lower rotor.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 06:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: macgyver0815 on September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pmSmall RC aircraft usually don't use 3 or more cells - there is little the point if those small cells cannot provide any current for motors.Quote from: macgyver0815 on September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pmYeah, right.See examples in RC hobby market - only bigger quadcopters(with wide props) or RC planes with big wings and huge batteries could have such fligh time.There are multiple other reasons why you would like to choose bigger multicopters or RC planes for aerial video/photo/FPV and not small helicopters.Quote from: Indiegogo campaign textShow some test results then. What exactly and how it was tested?Quote from: macgyver0815 on September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pmCampaign could add more features for this flashy project. Add solar panels in blades for a good measureAdditional features will not likely have any effect on implementation and delivery...Quote from: macgyver0815 on September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pmI agree 100%, there is no chance they will pull this off.

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 08:09:24 pm
content: Quote from: electr_peter on September 25, 2014, 06:16:46 pmSolar frigg'n bladezz!O0

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 09:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on September 24, 2014, 03:26:00 pmOK, I didn't go through the comments. The size certainly wasn't clear from the project description!On the other hand, even 5cm diameter is not all that much - if there was to be some sort of moving mass for steering in there, then most of that tube would be taken up by that mechanism. And where do they put the electronics, camera, radios, battery, etc?I think that these guys have absolutely no idea how to build a helicopter like that and are in way over their heads.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 11:59:36 pm
content: Quote from: macgyver0815 on September 20, 2014, 02:10:14 pmBuy a DJI Phantom with FPV and buy a really big pocket?