Multimeter recommendation - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: crispus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 11:23:48 pm
content: Hello everybody,I want to buy a new multimeter and I have some opinion about some multimeters, or some recommendations.Ideal it will be:accuracy >= 0.1% (VDC)display 19999+ (counts)true RMSautorangepossibility to measure under 1mV ccpossibility to measure under 1mA ccNice to have:temperaturedata logger>3 samples /secetcSome possible models:Agilent U1241B - 10.000 counts, 0.09%, autorange, true RMSUNI-T UT71C/E - 50.000 counts, 0.025%, autorange, true RMS, resolution: 10uV, 10 nABrymen BM-867/869 - 50.000 fast / 500.000 slow countsProtek D620Protek 608???Which one will the best choice? I don't know if to go with Agilent if even its performance doesn't look as good as the others, but is known for its quality...P.S: Sorry for my romglishThanks

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 11:30:06 pm
content: Absolutely no on the UNI-T UT71X series, NO. I have one and regret it. DO a search on it and see. If you want to consider a UNI-t consider the UT61E. Again search on this. It is a good meter for a good price.The Brymens, well I only have the idea that they are good based on a review here, a teardown, and a review by mjlorton on his youtube channel. I am in the process of buying one.The Aligent is a good meter by all accounts, but it is more expensive than the Brymens for less accuracy.The Proteks have been mentioned here and the 608 has been reported to be unreliable.Just my 2 pesos...

author: crispus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 09:01:28 am
content: Thanks for your input.First time I heard about Brymen from mjlorton's review and seemed to be pretty good (if is ~ comparable with Fluke).UNI-T is out, so is Protek...The final now is between Agilent and Brymen. I would like Agilent for its brand, and Brymen for its features.There are other brands/models under 250$ that worths?Thanks.

author: psycho0815
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 10:32:26 am
content: Hi,I have an Agilent U1241B and i can absolutely recommend it, if you can live with it's slow continuity, which is it's only major downside (i posted a short review here on the forum, if you'd like a bit more detail).The Brymen one seems to be really nice specwise, but a bit hard to come by, at least here in germany.There's also the extech EX530 which is 40000 counts at 0.06% dc accuracy. I have an ELV-branded DM9199 (http://www.elv.de/digital-multimeter-dm9199-ip67.htmlwhich seems to be a re-brand (same specs, and extremely similar looks).For the ELV price it's a really nice meter, but i wouldn't pay the >200€ extech wants for it though, because of a few downsides.Namely:slow continuityslow auto-rangingpainfully slow update-rate (spec'ed at 2/s, feels slower)overall feeling and build-quality is only ok, not great, YMMW

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 11:29:41 am
content: Quote from: crispus on October 23, 2012, 09:01:28 amThe Brymen's battery life sucks I think compared to the 300 hour Agilent?Maybe also a Yokogawa?http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/yokogawa/dmm/ty520.htmDave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 11:43:14 am
content: Quote from: crispus on October 23, 2012, 09:01:28 amThe Brymen's battery life sucks I think compared to the 300 hour Agilent?Maybe also a Yokogawa?http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/yokogawa/dmm/ty520.htm(but not 4.5 digit)or UEIhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/uei/digital-multimeters/dm397.htm($250 on ebay)The UEI has a nice 50mV range and impressive 0.1%+5 current accuracy. 0.3% AC too.Dave.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 12:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 23, 2012, 11:29:41 amUser Tesla500 from these very boards did a nice review of a similar Yokogawa a long time ago:

author: Otatiaro
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 01:11:43 pm
content: Quote from: psycho0815 on October 23, 2012, 10:32:26 am+1.Thomas.

author: crispus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 09:45:17 pm
content: Thank you everyone for the input. (Dave, what a nice surprise, thanks). The UEI looks impressive. I will try to find it in Europe because otherwise it will be too expensive (24% VAT, and about 5% Taxes).I can live with Brymen's battery (99% of time I will be at my desk). There are another downsides of Brymen?LE: Meanwhile I found the teardown topic ofBM867, and Kiriakos-GR's review:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/brymen-bm869-review-by-the-eye-of-the-industrial-electrician/

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 11:30:56 pm
content: It looks like the Brymen has around 100 hours of battery life. Yes not great, but weighed against the price, performance, and construction, it is a small consideration to me.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 11:41:54 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on October 23, 2012, 11:30:56 pmYeah, it's ok, but not quite in the category of your solid every day use meter.And I think standard for these various 500,000 count meters, in which there seems to be a lot of re-badging going on.Dave.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 05:20:25 am
content: The Brymen 857 I just got draws about 5mA when it's on and runs off a 9V battery.According to wikipedia, 9V battery capacity (mAh) =Alkaline:565Zinc–carbon:400Lithium:1200so I guess I should be buying lithium 9V from now on

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 05:36:35 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on October 24, 2012, 05:20:25 amInterestingly, you can buy an el-cheapo meter for the cost of one 9V lithium battery!Actually you probably buy 3-4 one-hung-low Harbour Freight specialsDave.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 06:54:27 am
content: a 1200mAH PP3 lithium is going to be very expensiveAll he needs is the UT61E, don't know why he didn't think of it! Lightages can prove the UT71E is almost the worst meter is the worldI would love to see it do mains on ohms thoughQuoteUT61E accuracy = (guaranteed, the chipset is 0.05% supposedly) 0.1%display = 22000 counts, exceeds his specificationsTrue RMSLIGHTNING FAST AUTORANGINGVery fast continuity test for a 20k+ (not counting the other ES51922 meters) counts meter actuallyAnd then you have 3Gohms impedance on mV range but hey, if you have got it secured tightly it wouldn't matter, and then the residual noise on mV scale is about 0mV if you have clamped alligator clips very tightly1mA? probably so, just watch out for the burden voltage on the uA scale (1kohms at 131uA, and 10ohms @ 1mA)But it CAN measure under 1mA given you know what you are doingEven if it's a integrated holster you won't hear it creaking like a door with weak joints if you twist it, ever.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 10:20:52 am
content: You seem to be in love with that UT-61E, but I can tell you that the UT-71 has no problem with mains power (240V here) on all ranges (I checked it with the 71B and 71D models), not just Ohms. There is built-in protection up to 1000V on all ranges (Crowbar circuit). So, please stop dissing equipment which you know little about.The 71 is a fine meter, if you can live with the slow latched continuity test, the fast-blow glass fuses and the lack of MOV behind the PTC.It is easy to beef-up the protection with replacement fast-blow ceramic fuses (not those 20c medium-blow Bussmann fuses, like in the UT-61) and a GDT (Gas Discharge Tube) soldered on the ready footprint next to the PTC, if you are going to play with serious voltages on a regular basis (I would buy a Fluke if I was in that situation, really).40,000 count with AC+DC TrueRMS, temperature, internal 10,000-point field data logging, also convenient USB data-logging and a gorgeous multi-data back-lit screen is a package that is hard to beat at that price point.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 10:28:00 am
content: 3x CR2 sized lifepo4 spot welded in series makes a pretty awesome rechargeable slightly oversize leakproof 9v replacement.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 03:45:47 pm
content: Lightages talked about the inaccuracy of his UT71E. That's how i got the impression it's a bad meter especially when all of the UT61Es mostly doesn't have such poor inaccuracy (IE: more than the "listed" accuracy)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 07:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on October 24, 2012, 03:45:47 pmWe don't know if Lightages bought his 71E meter from a reputable seller. I have a 3-year warranty from an accredited agent and could return my two UT-71 for repair, if required. Uni-T, to their credit, went out of their way to help him solve his problem.The only issue he had with his meter was an alleged 'out of calibration' situation. He said himself at the time, that he would be happy with his purchase, if he could get the measurements within certified limits, which he did eventually.Now, he has changed his tune, talking down the 71E at every opportunity, for its puny input protection, while praising the 61E, which is barely better in that regard.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 09:05:10 pm
content: I may have said that I managed to get my UT71E within specification, but after all the months of it drifting all over the place I cannot have any confidence in it. It was also by having it open so many times that I realized just how poorly designed the inputs were. I sincerely believe that there is no way it could really meet its CAT specifications. Sorry if I can change my mind after considering new evidence as it were.No I did not buy mine from a reputable dealer because such a thing does not exist in Chile. For the price charged and for the specifications, it is simply a big letdown. Yes the 61E is not protected fully but it is much better than the 71E.For the money there are safer meters but perhaps not as fully featured.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 12:20:29 am
content: Further to my assertion that there are better than the UT71E for the same price range, much better:Amprobe AM-140-Ahttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/multimeters/am-140-a.htmReviewed here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/amprobe-am-140-a/msg155623/#msg155623Brymen BM867http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm867/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/#Reviewed here:andNow of course these meters lack a couple of features of the UT71E, but have better features in other ways and some of the best input design and protection I have seen. If anyone wants my UT71E I will sell it for $120 plus shipping if people think it is so great. It has seen very little use and will probably see little use in the future.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 04:51:27 am
content: Since you are obsessed with accuracy and now, also with input protection, you should perhaps consider acquiring a Fluke or Agilent multimeter.Every meter has its pros and cons and these two don't meet my requirements: no internal logging, tiny range selectors and poor LCD screens.Uni-T is a big company, making sophisticated equipment, used all over the world. If they state that their meters meet international standards, I would have more faith in that statement, rather than in some assertion to the contrary, by unqualified people on the internet.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 07:50:34 am
content: Of course out of the box the UT61E don't meet any standards, CAT II maybe? Just slap HRC sockets and some properly-rated MOVs and you are good to goWe are not "obsessed" but the UT61E barely drifts and your "barely better" comment is just wrong. There are so many areas that the UT71E is much worse and none the better, how do you trust the data logging if it drifts?Well then if you want to know the drift use a trusted voltage reference and leave it there for a week, i'll betcha your UT71x will drift like a mad dogAnd no, don't tell me what to do! I'm not going to fork out 300$ for a meter i do not have any use or budget for.I just need a 50$ DMM that i can vastly improve on the input protection and nothing else, as well as a good display (You know what? The 61E's display works better than a 87v, eat that)

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:28:52 am
content: I was talking to Lightages, but since you want to join the conversation, I'll bite.Your first phrase validates my statement about the input protection on the 61E beingbarely betterthan on the 71E. I can't comment on the accuracy of the 61E, because I don't own one. On paper, it seems pretty average, with an all-in-one Cyrustek 22,000 count ADC, with no microcontroller and no screen driver. I think Uni-Trend could have had a real winner with the E model, if they had used all the features of the ADC, to provide temperature measurement and a screen backlight, at little cost to themselves.Drift over a long period on the 71E? How do you know? Do you have figures? What is your sample? I can't comment until my calibrated 480,000 count Rigol DMM arrives. I can tell you though, that there is no short-term drift, with a steady last digit, while measuring a constant voltage supply, with both meters.The display looks ok, probably on a par with the 71; again, I don't understand why the backlight was omitted.As for the 'many areas' where the 61 is better, you'll have to be more specific, to get a reaction from me.For the record, I never said that the 61 was a bad meter; to the contrary, I think it is great value for that money and it has few competitors in that price range.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 09:59:24 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on October 25, 2012, 04:51:27 amYou can stop being personal about this. I made some statements, and you want to attack me for making them. You have no idea of my qualifications nor my experience.I purchased a meter for its stated accuracy, and its stated safety ratings. It did not match either. That is a simple fact. My opinion of the UT71E has evolved with experience with it. It also costs the same as other meters that have been demonstrated to meet their ratings and specs, although in single samples. Now you state that if I am concerned about accuracy and safety then I should not buy a UNI-T but then assert that you have confidence in UNI-T to meet their ratings?If someone wants to buy a UT71x after my experiences, then fine. I am just trying to help steer people to better quality for the same price.I am not in love with the UT61E. For its price it is what I would expect. It is a much better deal than the UT71E in my opinion.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:14:14 am
content: I was speaking in general terms, because you're not the first one to dispute Uni-Trend's statements about conformity with international standards, but no one has ever produced any clear official documentary evidence to show where the standards are infringed.If you are an experienced qualified electronics engineer, I will gladly exclude you from the aforementionned group (which I belong to), but you would still have to produce some evidence to back up your extraordinary statement, to be taken seriously. (A European company could take you to court for such slander)We know that the Uni-Ts aren't built to Fluke standards, but that doesn't mean that safety standards IEC61010 are breached.Now, it sounds like with your 71E, you bought an expensive lemon and are rightly bitter about it (excuse the pun). But, there is no need to taint the whole line because of your bad experience. I have two of them and cannot find any fault with them (yet) and they stay within their published tolerances (so far). Just like the 61, I think the 71 is very good value for money. I have no qualms recommending them, with the added caveat of poor continuity and reduced safety, compared to a Fluke, for instance.I don't know if these meters meet IEC61010, but Uni-T is a serious company and they could easily comply with those lax regulations at little cost.They can take 240V on any Volt/Ohms range selection, that I know for sure. I can't test the 1000V claim yet. I will test 240V on the A/mA range, but I need some spare fuses first.About the 61E, speak to Martin Lorton, he has had some reports of dodgy measurements from his followers. More lemons probably...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 11:26:41 am
content: Fair enough. Just remember that a piece of paper does not make me qualified. I do not have such papers and if that is all you will take to believe I have sufficient qualifications from experience, so be it.I agree that my UT71E could be a lemon as far as accuracy goes, but it is clear that the current measurements are not made for more than 250V and thus do not meet their CAT ratings. I have not tested the volt/ohm input for the CAT rating either but having a battery snap wire running against the input trace is most definitely not safe practice and probably will not withstand high voltage.I have my opinion, you have yours.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 01:01:17 pm
content: I don't think you understand the CAT rating.Meters are tested on the Volts/Ohms range only. They have to sustain the following voltages for very short transient. The PTCs, Crowbar circuit, MOVs and GDTs would come into action then, to protect the meter from damage for voltages over 1000V. If you look at your meter, you'll see that the CAT rating is on the Volt/Ohms range only.CAT II 600V 4000V peak impulse transient 12 Ohm sourceCAT II 1000V 6000V peak impulse transient 12 Ohm sourceCAT III 600V 6000V peak impulse transient 2 Ohm sourceCAT III 1000V 8000V peak impulse transient 2 Ohm sourceCAT IV 600V 8000V peak impulse transient 2 Ohm sourceCAT IV 1000V 12000V peak impulse transient 2 Ohm sourceWhen you measure current on the Amp range, there is very little voltage across the shunt and fuse, as its resistance/impedance is usually around 0.01 Ohm, in series with the circuit under test which could have a 1000V supply with a 200 Ohm load for instance, causing no problem, as long as current is kept below 10A. If you go over that 10A rating, the fuse blows, whether it is rated at 250V or 600V.If you try to measure 1000V across a live supply, with the leads in the A/mA, causing a short, then all hell breaks loose, high voltage and amperage is applied to the shunt and fuse, with possible arcing and destruction of the meter, even with HRC fuses. This is the situation where a higher voltage rating for the fuse is safer, to contain the energy flowing through it.There is further protection behind the fuse on the mA/uA range, consisting of a bridge rectifier and Zener diode, limiting voltage to 6.3V in case of overload.So, in short, the voltage rating of your fuses does not affect your current reading limits and 600V/1000V is fine on the UT-71.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 05:52:22 pm
content: Hold on a sec, those glass fuses have a VERY limited breaking current. I have seen some explode violently from just 100amps surgePlus they're not DC rated, which means it's EXTREMELY risky to use over 50VDCThere are so many users of the UT61E and i have calibrated it after receiving them both within a month, they are well within specsEven my local supplier took away the 71E when i went to ask because people complained it IS crap.Doesn't meet accuracy specs, doesn't meet CAT rating. Good luck containing a 4000V peak impulse without a add-on MOV on the both the 6X and 7XBut hell, if you shorted the current range thereotically it won't have any voltage drop, BUT IT WILL HAVE THE VOLTAGE FLOWING THROUGH.There's a stark difference between Voltage Drop and Voltage going through it, alright, if you don't believe me try it on a 250VDC(!) 100A supplyA good competitor? What else? MS8218! As if i would need internal logging!Stays well in spec, 50000 counts and a proper bargraph that looks more like a analogAnd guess what? I haven't seen a inaccurate reading outside of the specs, a friend of mine(who has some the same voltage reference as martin...) was interested in the UT61E and borrowed both of mine to check it's accuracy,10V was exactly 10.000V (both of them!) compared to a HP 34681V was 1.0001V and the other one 1.0002V(He left it overnight and left it on datalogging with UltraDMM, the graph was pretty stable)Alright, you also took shots at saying the UT61E was "barely better" than the UT71E when you didn't own one,it's not that i didn't own one before, i did! For a short while... i refunded it at a local shop because it was NOT even 0.5% on most DC and AC ranges compared to my UT61E

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 06:56:55 am
content: To avoid this pissing contest and avoid continuing to hijack this thread, I have started another thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects-designs-and-technical-stuff/cat-ratings-and-interpretation/In any recommendation of any multimeter one must consider its use, and possible mode of failure in this intended use. Consider that an instrument might be pressed into service beyond the original purchase criteria and that the best buy is to buy something that will not be dangerous or have flaws that might cause harm from future error in use, or from unintended use by the original purchaser or another person.IMHO the UT71E is not a good buy, there are others as I have posted that are much better buys. The UT61E is a good entry model multimeter but it too has its flaws.In the low end of multimeters to buy it is definitely worth look at Dave's video on the $50 shootout, and for better meters his $100 shootout. I am sure that Dave will be the first to say that his reviews do not reflect the total of all available choices, and that the evidence of a good meter from one manufacturer for a specific model is not conclusive evidence that all models from the same manufacturer are equally as good. This is shown easily with "$50" Extech vs the "$100" Extech.If you want no questions asked general acceptance of quality, buy an Agilent, Fluke, Gossen, etc and pay your bucks. This is, of course, not a guarantee that you will get the best buy, the most accurate, nor even the most suitable to the task you want.IMHO, if someone has a concern with the accuracy, reliability, and safety of a specific multimeter, and it is not just the opinion of just one loud mouth complainer, then it warrants consideration.Again, my recommendations for meters would include UNI-T for these models for low energy and low voltage work and for a budget price: UT10A as a really nice little pocket meter, UT33C as a good general purpose small troubleshooting meter for automobiles and general electronics.For general electrical and electronics with a fair amount of safety and confidence, the UT61E is a good buy meter for around $60.For high energy circuits and high accuracy I would not hesitate to buy a Fluke 87V, Aglient 1252, Bryson BM857 or BM867 or BM869, Amprobe AM-140-A or AM-160-A, or UEi DM397. This list is not exhaustive of course and some are MUCH more expensive than the others. The list also not from experience but from trusted sources for reviews and information.My experience with modern multimeters is rather limited as I have just started to update my equipment after my last updates of equipment from many years past.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 10:18:02 am
content: I own three Uni-T multimeter which includes a 71D. I own this unit for a few years now. Of all the DMMs I have, this is the one which drifted the most, I did not take note if it is still within accuracy spec. I record results of all my DMM periodically and I have very stable array of well aged LTZ1000 as references.The readings is unrepeatable for the last digit and it doesn't like reading noisy DC, ie the filtering is kaput. To the point I had to do something, I followed the calibration video but I could never get it right. This annoys me OCD majorly. Long term accuracy is unstable.If someone would payme 90% of what I paid, I would gladly part with it. There are many choices out there, the 61 series is a praised DMM even in the Chinese forums. I wouldnt hesistate to buy it.The 71series is not too bad its actually very well built and robust structure wise. It has super useless stand, tilt angle is no good for me. It's probably the most feature packed DMM among Chinese can offer. But unfortunately it's jack of all trades it does everything but not perfectly. Don't believe me? Why don't get one 71D, then compare to the similar spec Fluke 187? Of course one would argue its silly to compare different priced items, but they have near same spec right? Perhaps the UniT should revisit 71 series spec sheet?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 01:09:43 pm
content: Hi Nukie,Sorry to hear about your troubles with the 71D.Uni-T does revise their PCBs and lay-outs fairly regularly, so hopefully your problem, assuming it was a design fault with the meter, has been sorted-out. Mine are quite stable, but I will only be sure about their long term reliability, once I get a precise instrument for comparison.It is strange, because Uni-T has not skimped on components, pairing a pretty good Cyrustek with an TI low power uController.Have you ever tried to have it fixed by Uni-T? They are usually pretty good with that sort of thing, although accuracy is only garanteed for a year, I think.yes, sorry, I meant to say TI uC. Thanks T4P. and 2 Holtek LCD controllers and a 512K I2C™ CMOS Serial EEPROM and an AD/ES636 TRMS to DC converter and a ST HCF4011 Triple input NAND Gates uChip.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 03:09:36 pm
content: Wait, that's a TI MSP430 uC, the other one, not the holtek LCD controller. So there's actually 3 chips.The cyrustek is ONLY a ADC and yes, i would prefer everything packed into one ASIC.

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 05:51:51 pm
content: I saw Protek 608 New in Box on ebay for ~$60 (incl shipping) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/221150904775?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) for 3 days and no one take it. I am not related to the seller and have no experience about protek. I read the comments about it in this forum. I am just surprised to see the price drop in just one year. If I haven't bought a new ut61e recently, I may have given this one a try.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 06:16:56 pm
content: But the viewing angle is terrible.The UT61E has a display a million times better though