Are those arduino oscilloscopes good for a biginner? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:14:59 am
content: I have wanted to learn about electronic repair and design for ages but im a very slow learner so i often get discouraged by the bulk ahead. this is the main reason that keeps me from buying oscilloscopes second hand since most of those are either cheap and in bad shape(or in some remote place that i would have to pick it up from) or €100 or higher and in a somewhat okay state, which is just not worth it for the times i will actually have learned something from it beyond how to use it. so my question is, are those cheapish arduino oscilloscope shields and software worth it? can i actually learn with them as an absolute beginner? if so does anyone know what one is the best one? i googled it and an incredible amount of instructables etc popped up and i have no clue what i should look for, and what is worth the extra dime or not.thanks for even considering helping me

author: Gmetal
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:47:12 am
content: If it's really cheap, it might be an interesting thing to have, and better than nothing, but its pretty different to using an actual oscilloscope, and will be probably very limited in in usability.Even 'proper' USB oscilloscopes i find to be a huge pain in the ass. See if you can find a cheap old oscilloscope, even if its analog, and shabby, as long as it works, you'll learn alot. After all you don't need complex features if your objective is to learn, you just need to see a couple waveforms and compare/ practice measuring signals etc, and you'll get a better feel for it with a real one. Sometimes universities throw out old ones, so see if you can pick one of those up if there is one near you.Are there any particular projects you had in mind with the oscilloscope?

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 09:55:30 am
content: the problem is that everything that is in the kinda okay circle is more than 30 km from where i am and i dont own a car or have a driving license so the expense of getting it will always be high. the problem with the old shabby oscilloscopes is that the people selling them dont even know if they are functional 40% of the time, and when they are working for sure they are in some remote place not reachable with public transport without giving out more cash than the actual thing costs. everything that actually is displayed with its wave on is more than 50KM from where i live (and than still its all analog and chabby). maybe my budget is just set to low? because i want something for not (much) more than a €100 (about 120 us$)the only real project i have in mind is trying to seek the defect on an old laptop motherboard of mine i have laying around. but i think thats far above my knowledge at this stage so i just want to do some practicing with breadboards etc until i feel comfortable in trying to fix (or at least find the defect) in said motherboard.

author: Azhar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 10:05:23 am
content: I bought one of these ebay DIY kit scopes, it kinda does the job, but I probably used it ones since I bought it

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 10:14:02 am
content: the main reason i dont want one of those is that an arduino is multi purpose so i could always use it for some other project if i eventually upgrade to something better, but i dont know what the price of those DIY sets are and how they compare to the DIY one for arduino price performance wise. thanks for the suggestion though, hadn't even considered those yet.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:25:04 am
content: I thought you meant the kit 2 posts up. Both it and arduino use the same brains.Dave has already declared them toys.Is a courier too much to have a CRO shipped?

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:33:24 am
content: Just had a look on ebay.nl, prices are out of your budget. You could always make an offer, since unlikely to be moving. However you need to make sure there is a warranty or at least some guarantee.Id recommend you look at an analog discovery if your looking to learn. However the prices new are double your budget again. Are you are student? I think student pricing only applies to US students.http://www.digikey.nl/product-search/en?mpart=410-321&v=1286Alternative is to try posting WTB in the buy/sell forum here. Perhaps toploser/kjds have something?

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 11:54:23 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on March 01, 2016, 11:33:24 amebay isnt really used over here, we already had our own version marktplaats.nl (marketplace.nl literal translation). but even there everything is more than 50 km from where i live and often costs more than i can afford if it even is in working condition.i am a student but not a student in electronics so i dont know if it counts, i might look into that tho, thanks for the suggestion.

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 12:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on March 01, 2016, 11:25:04 amthose things are quite heavy(so postal costs quite a lot) and the people selling on ebay like sites wont do postal so i either have to have someone pick it up or get it myself. i can order them from outside the netherlands but then postal often reaches 20 euro or higher(for neighboring countries), and 40 to 50 from the UK and france etc.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 01:17:12 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on March 01, 2016, 11:25:04 amActually that kit is Cortex-M3 ARM processor (STM32F103C8) based. Just for clarification.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:03:11 pm
content: DSO138 is a great scope for a beginner as long as you measure frequencies lower than 200kHz.I has helped me quite a bit in troubleshooting, especially when it showed me that my homemade lab PSU was oscillating at constant current mode, certainly something a DMM could never do.

author: kunzem
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:23:20 pm
content: Imho you even better of with some old analog scope for 50 bucks from anywhere.

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:27:24 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on March 01, 2016, 02:03:11 pmim sure it is but im not looking for advice on an oscilloscope. the problem is the availability of any oscilloscope inside my price range at a reasonable to reach place.Quote from: kunzem on March 01, 2016, 02:23:20 pmyes i know this, the problem is that they are very sparsely available in that price in my country in "tested"(read checked if it turns on) condition. there are like 3 available in a 50 km range that dont show a sinus wave and the people offering them have no clue if they turn on or not. if i use public transport to get there its about 30$ and that at the risk of it not working when i try it at the pickup point. no thank you. ive checked several times a month and this situation has been continuously.

author: Wor3d
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:32:12 pm
content: I have to agree with the DSO 138, although yes, Dave declared them as toys, but I am also a student, and in around me I dont have any affordable (even old analog) oscilloscopes to get from... You build the DSO yourself, which is part of learning too,you also get schematics, which you can look into later, when you maybe know more stuff, realizing whata you work with. I use the oscilloscope many many times, it's great for troubleshooting, much better than the cheapo multimeter that I got. You can use it as a "logic analyzer" (like, high/low), or second multimeter, which is handy a lot. I use it all the time (but I am still looking for some old analog). I think is worth every cent from 20€ for people like you, and me. That's my opinion, cheers

author: meeder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:38:21 pm
content: @tjeulink: where do you live in the Netherlands? I might have something you probably could use. I have an old Philips PM3055 scope here.

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 03:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: meeder on March 01, 2016, 02:38:21 pmi live in amersfoort, its 10 min away from utrecht. how much would you want for it?

author: collingtech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 02:25:14 am
content: i have a very disapointing experience whit one arduino osciloscope thing, save the money and buy a used one , trust me

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 04:45:26 am
content: http://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?t=107

author: Renegade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 04:57:16 am
content: Quote from: Azhar on March 01, 2016, 10:05:23 amI bought one and will be assembling it sometime in the next week or two whenever I find time.I look at these things like learning projects. Also, I can use that in situations that scare me where I refuse to use my brand new Rigol. If I fuck up... oh well. I blew up a $25 project that I learned something from.DIY kits are great.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 05:14:48 am
content: An oscilloscope is a tool for debugging your circuit. When debugging your circuits, the last thing you want to do is second-guessing your oscilloscope -- or worse still, getting let up the garden path by a poor oscilloscope.For this reason, these Arduino oscilloscopes, funnily enough, require far more skill and understanding to use than a decent, proper oscilloscope. So I don't recommend it for beginners, you'll just end up blaming problems in your circuit on your oscilloscope and vice versa.

author: SpidersWeb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 05:23:19 am
content: I much prefer the 30+ year old CRO I found at a local recycling center for $5, than my brand new low cost kit scope.I'm a beginner myself, and found the kit scope to be quite frustrating at times - spent more times diddling around with it than I did the project.Edit: would agree it'd make a fun DIY project though

author: nealz
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 06:09:26 am
content: Save you money and get either a used analog or look for a used rigol.In either case spend time with scope before buying to be sure all is working

author: fubar.gr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 01:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on March 02, 2016, 05:14:48 amBoth of these statements are so true!This should be made a sticky in the Beginners forum. It would save newbies from so much frustration.

author: Renegade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 01:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on March 02, 2016, 05:14:48 amInteresting. I'd not thought of that before. (Beginner here.) I'll keep that in mind and use it as a learning opportunity. Thanks!

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 02:11:20 pm
content: Trust me, any scope is better than no scope. Even if it is DSO 138. I've got two of them, they are not absolute garbage. But they are not precise, don't rely too much on read outs. The useful bandwidth is around 150-200KHz, noise floor around 3mV.

author: Rager
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 02:56:36 pm
content: I did play arround with an arduino osci, but it is not very usefull. If there are things to debug, you need a real oscilloscope. Look on Ebay or somewere else for an used analog one, those come really cheap and are waaay better that a smalll same priced pocket scope. Debugging something with trashy debugging hardware is really no fun at all!

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 04:16:27 pm
content: The DSO 138 is cheap, and I bet it's at least 10 times better than what you have now. If they had been around when I bought my first scope 12 years ago I would not have hesitated. Instead I had to search and shop until I finally found a decent second hand Tektronix analog scope that I could afford. I used that for almost 8 years before getting a Rigol.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 04:27:11 pm
content: I'm generally of the opinion that the less experience the operator has, thebetterthe quality of tools that are required, not the other way around. Good tools make it easier to achieve the desired end result, and vice versa.If there's a placeat allfor poor tools - and I'm far from convinced that there is - then it's occasional use by people with experience.Having said all that, a simple scope based on a microcontroller might be quite an interesting tool to start learning with, butnotby actually using it as a scope to investigate other equipment. Instead, study the scope itself. Figure out how it works, what it can and can't do. Treat it as a worked example of an electronic device in its own right.

author: tjeulink
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 05:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 02, 2016, 04:16:27 pm10 times 0 is still 0. i dont own an oscilloscope (yet). but thanks for the suggestion, i will look into it!

author: adamlewerin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 09:05:36 pm
content: You could always get one to check if there is a signal or not, but I would not trust those for actually checking what signal there is.I got myself a 20€ PC oscilloscope, and although it is not accurate it can measure rough frequencies and wave forms, can AC-couple and so on - I advise you to do the same if you can. The EDU09 is pretty cheap and works for simple work, even though it is not too accurate.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 09:32:09 pm
content: I still think my Hantek 6022be was a good buy for 60 bucks.

author: danadak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:24:30 pm
content: The market has evolved dramatically for low costs scopes.One approach is the plugin series of scopes, like Tek 7000 series. You can get a basicscope on ebay with a couple of plugins, 100 Mhz or better, for ~ $ 100 - 150. Advantageof these is there is a lot of plugins that can be bought as needed that specialize in capa-bility, like digitizing, TDR, S/H, Spectrum, high G differential.... I use a number of scopesbut still use these older analog versions occasionally, so as a long term investment afoundation you can create for your lab.There are several analog / semi digital Teks for same price range, no plugins, portableseries, 465, 468, 475 that are still in demand today.There are USB scopes that use your PC/LapTop as display/control.I would advise you focus on 60 - 100 Mhz capable, 5 nS or less sweep speed capable.1 Mohm inputs, with 50 ohm additional capability nice.Also showing up on ebay and the like are the early digital scopes, like Tek TDS series. Theyare in same cost range, have advantage of more automated measurements, and they are functionallystorage scopes for looking at very low rep rate signals. Some have FFT which is super handy in a singleinstrument, but usually that comes at a higher price point.One thing you can do is pick up the phone and call local university purchasing departments, manyengineering departments regularly obsolete scopes and they are sold as surplus. An example myson purchased a full up 1 Ghz 4 channel DSO, LeCroy, for $ 150. Still have it, its bulky, but great.Also call companies and get a purchasing or engineering guy/gal; on the phone, explain you are abeginner, people are inherently oriented towards helping out the new EE starting out. You maybe surprised. I have also gone to junk yards that get industrial throw aways and picked up olderbut high performance Tek tube scopes, some for scrap price.There is free PC software you can sue with your soundcard. Beware you need to condition the inputto a sound card to insure you don't over V stress the input.https://www.zeitnitz.eu/scope_enGoogle "sound card input protection circuits"For probes get a switchable 1X/10 x probe, and tape down the switch to 10X. This is an insurance policy tokeep from over stressing scope Vertical amp inputs. Once you get disciplined about your scopes capability youcan use the 1X position as needed.Good luck, Dana.

author: danadak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:44:10 pm
content: On additional thought, when buying off ebay there are a lot of sellers thatdo not know the difference between a oscilloscope and a hummingbird,some fain ignorance to questions is it operational. So best if you can buylocal so that you can go, turn it on, connect the calibrator signal to an inputwith an alligator clip and a couple of paper clips to connect into the BNCs onthe scope. Always convey to seller you are at the beginning of your career,that sometime helps to weed out the sellers of crap.Regards, Dana.

author: Hendry Born
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2016, 10:49:58 pm
content: Save and be safeIf you want to gain some experience with a scope TBH the best practice is to buy a cheap Analog 20 Mhz scope on eBay!You will gain experience and learn.If you have any question, just ask!