Best PCB Design Practices and Books/Articles - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:22:46 pm
content: I would love to here all the best ideas for PCB design and layout.Book reference, online PDFs, even example artwork.Seems like there is a lot to learn.I would like to add important features to my work. (AutoTRAX DEX)Thanks for your help.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:29:26 pm
content: Relating to the thread about your software the following crossed my mind today and I'll write it down since you are more or less asking for it:A PCB design isn't just a bunch of gerber and drill files. A PCB design also comes with a bill-of-materials in order to facilitate assembling the PCB whether it is a prototype or a mass produced. The basis for a bill-of-materials starts with a good parts management system. I posted a link to a video about Orcad's part management system (which uses an external database) earlier. Without a good parts management system creating a BOM is a tedious process where you have to manually put a list together with all the tolerances, part numbers, supplier order codes, etc.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 11, 2015, 07:22:46 pmUse this forum's "search", and you will find many many pointers. Google also works quite well.After that you will be able to tell us what you do/don't understand, and formulate a more pointed question that can be answered.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:32:55 pm
content: http://www.eevblog.com/wiki/index.php?title=Online_Electronics_Tutorials_and_Books

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:38:39 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 11, 2015, 07:22:46 pmMake a design, order the pcb's and solder the components yourself on the board. After a design or 40, you get the hang of it.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:47:17 pm
content: Found this 600 page book.http://www.hdihandbook.com/Downloaded it and looks great.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 07:59:00 pm
content: Found this on HIGH VOLTAGE PRINTED CIRCUIT DESIGN & MANUFACTURINGhttp://www.magazines007.com/pdf/High-Voltage-PCDesign.pdf]http://www.magazines007.com/pdf/High-Voltage-PCDesign.pdfI think I'll add this to my real-time DRC.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 08:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on February 11, 2015, 07:38:39 pmLife's too short and a bin full of duff boards is too expensive.I want to stand on the shoulders of giants

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 08:12:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 11, 2015, 07:29:26 pmI have custom part attributes. You define what you like.See attached.Seems like another topic for what should be available for a BOM.

author: JohnnyBerg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 08:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 11, 2015, 08:04:13 pmDesigning pcb's is a skill, you can't learn that from a book. Some may even say that it is art, and not science.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 09:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 11, 2015, 08:12:05 pmLooks OK but I have two more questions if you don't mind:1) Is it possible to attach one symbol to multiple parts?2) Is it possible to attach one footprint to multiple parts?If yes to both questions then I think you got part management covered.The reason for sharing symbols and footprints is that in some cases a change is required to symbols or footprints. It would be cumbersome if all parts would need to be changed.To drift even further off-topic (or maybe not since we are talking about best practices) another question popped into my mind: One of the problems with some CAD packages is that the symbols and footprints are not included in the design file. This means that if you send a design to someone else that person needs the exact same libraries in order to be able to open your file. This ofcourse is a major nuisance when working on a project with multiple people because the libraries are never in sync. How does DEX handle that? Are the symbols and footprints included in the design file?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 10:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on February 11, 2015, 08:32:51 pmThis thread stems from discussion from this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/dex-eval-by-free_electron/Iliya is the principal behind DEX

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 10:52:39 pm
content: Ouch. In a normal setting you first try to understand the problem before you attempt to write a program to solve it. Sorry man. I just had to say it. But, at the same time i tremendously APPRECIATE IT that you are willing to learn.You want to stand on shoulders of giants : i am giving you a whole washlist of things you can start implementing but i'm only met with hostility.-manual wiring . Scrap that autowirimg stuff. It doesnt work- programmable grids- random unit system- origin settings- industry standard file exchange (step)- multi-edit of parameters- custom assignable attributes on symbols (not just designator and value but anything i want to add)- editable courtyard shapes- editable silkscreen shapesAnd much more.This all base requirements to do any kind of board design.I made a few footprints now and now want to know the same thing ntcnico writes : how do i tie one fottprint to multiple symbols? How do i tie multiple footprints to one symbol ? How do i make multipart symbols like a quad nand gate ?

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:32:12 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 11, 2015, 10:52:39 pmThis reply is off topic. The topic isBest PCB Design Practices and Books/ArticlesPlease post your views to the topic you created.Thanks

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 11:58:54 am
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 10:32:12 amFree-electron is (was?) in the process of writing a PCB design book. If you ask nicely perhaps he might share some of it with you!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 11:59:53 am
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 10:32:12 amIt was a reasonable response to your statements, and therefore relevant.In addition, it would appear that you didn't give us all the information available to you that could have helped us help you.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 12:13:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 11, 2015, 10:52:39 pmThat often leads to years of research and no result. With technology evolving continuously it is hard to come up with a solution which can be used for years. Creating a piece of software which is easy to extend leads to results quickly and can be adapted to changing requirements.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 12:28:39 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 11, 2015, 10:52:39 pmIf by "normal" you mean "typical", then I'll contend the available evidence is against you. There are far too many machines where clearly the designers' haven't understood the problemMy current beef is with cars with touchscreen controls - in order for the driver to use them they have tolookat it rather than justfeelingit. I want the driver's eyes looking outside the car, so they see whatever they are about to hit!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 01:12:45 pm
content: yep, still writing on the book. Hopefullly be done mid this year. I got the demoboards coming in from china , hopefully before their spring festival.I have to add a few chapters on DFM and so e other things relating to mass production and taking care of that during layout. DFM DFT and the likes.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 01:13:20 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 12, 2015, 11:58:54 amThanks, but I am interested in books and PDFs that exist. I personally do not need a book on Altium Designer. This topic is for existing information.Judging by the grammar used in his posting, I would expect it to be very difficult to read.I findComplete PCB Design Using OrCAD Capture and PCB Editorby Kraig Mitzner is a good book.Perhaps he could post his draft for all to see as he is keen to most comments and videos of his ability to use DEX. This would be great and we could all add our comments and experience to make the bookthe standard PCB design book.JohnnyBerg states:Designing pcb's is a skill, you can't learn that from a book. Some may even say that it is art, and not science.So the free-electron book is doomed to failure.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 01:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 01:13:20 pmSo , if pcb design can't be learned from a book why are you asking for books ?And no, this is not an 'Altium' book . The book is written tool-less.Maybe i should add a chapter about crappy pcb design software. I can use DEX as prime example. If you are going to flame me i will flame back ! You comments are way out of line .Your reply is also off topic.Now go read the washlist of problems i posted in the review topic and watch the videos i made to document them. Fix em. And please do explain how to link one pcb stmbol to multiple schemaric symbols and the reverse , adde soldermask layers and paste mask layers so i can move on and try to get some proper parts made in DEX.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 02:32:46 pm
content: oh , here is a good book :http://www.alternatezone.com/electronics/files/PCBDesignTutorialRevA.pdfwritten by some aussie bloke.. but it's probably going to be discarded because of religious reasons. Something about minds being corrupted by the Altium demon, and cool-aid drinkers and other brown-nosing.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:10:34 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 02:32:46 pmIt's not what I would call a book. It's only 25 pages. However it is very interesting.It is written by Dave, the owner of the web site.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:15:58 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 01:19:25 pmPlease read it again before mistakenly attributing other forum users comments to me. Here it is again. (I believe that PCB design can be learned by reading a book)JohnnyBerg states:Designing pcb's is a skill, you can't learn that from a book. Some may even say that it is art, and not science.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:17:02 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on February 11, 2015, 08:32:51 pmBoth I and free-electon disagree. However, what works for you is fine.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:20:30 pm
content: How could anybody possibly insist that a book would be useless in PCB design? Sure, you don't become an expert PCB designer by reading a book, but it's not all "art". Metric fucktons of electromagnetics stuff and manufacturing stuff in there that can definitely be taught...

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 01:19:25 pmPlease calm down and devote more of your time to your book.I have changed my mind; please send me a copy of your book. It's OK is it's not finished. I would love to learn from you (can run a spelling checker and grammar checker on it for you). Washlist! Stmbol, addeThanks I advance.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:25:21 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyBerg on February 11, 2015, 08:32:51 pmThere is a lot you can learn from a book about clearances, layer setups, creating parts, solderability, preparing for production, etc, etc. BUT creating an actual PCB is like solving a 3D maze and that definitely takes talent. I have worked with people who really struggled to get a board routed.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 03:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2015, 03:25:21 pmAs I said in one of my videos, manual routing is like maze solving. You need good visual skills and great peripheral vision as well as a sense of 2.5D (layer swapping).Mathematically, routing is NP complete. That's why people bitch about other people’s routing.However, sometimes the tool can help you get out of the Maze.Here the yellow arrow is telling you the best end point.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 04:11:09 pm
content: Sorry, no previews of the book. That is author-publisher privilege.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 04:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 04:11:09 pmWhat a shock.Does it exist? I would have a bet with you but I don't know how I could collect my winnings.Perhaps we could put the cash in escrow.P.S. We all have plans to write a book.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 04:25:14 pm
content: Don't be an ass. That's how publishing works. You're not just "writing a book", you're writing itforthe publisher.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 04:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on February 12, 2015, 04:25:14 pmYou write books for the reader.There are many ways to publish a book.I suspect he doesn't have a publisher, perhaps he can tell us so we can all monitor it. It was Dave who suggested I ask him. So is he an ass as well?Please let's get back on topic.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 04:39:02 pm
content: It looks to me as though he has no trouble finding a publisher.And no, you're an ass for feeling the need to insinuate that there might not even be a book, despite being about a five second search away from verification that the man has already written multiple.Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 04:37:52 pmDo these words mean anything in the real world?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 05:06:50 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 04:18:23 pmin your case i believe winnings is spelled with an h and a single n as opposed to a double n . that seems to be all you do.Please go work on your non existing paste layer or solve a couple of my bug reports i filed, i'll go work on my non-existing book.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 05:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 03:40:31 pmWhich , if you had any know-how of PCB design, you would realize is wrong, for at least 3 obvious reasons. I'm sure i can find even a few more than that.(hints why: sideways pad connections is not allowed because of bridging and AOI ,angle of attack is wrong and the only remaining channel is already occupied by a trace... )And i'm not even going to mention that this pin could be a sense wire requiring a kelvin connection to the node on the other end in which case the arrow should point to wherever that other track is leading. that is really advanced stuff which i don't expect DEX to cover. So i will not complain if it lacks that functionality or understanding.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 06:36:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 05:12:42 pmsideways pad connections is not allowed because of bridgingBut that's the intension, 6 joins to 7!Even it I routed vertically out from pad 6 there is nothing to bridge to!With soldermaskAnd i'm not even going to mention that this pin could be a sense wirerequiring a kelvin connection to the node on the other end in which case the arrow should point to wherever that other track is leading. that is really advanced stuff which i don't expect DEX to cover. So i will not complain if it lacks that functionality or understanding.Uhh, you just did. You can always ignore the yellow hint arrow. Does Altiumknow that this pin could be a sense wire requiring a kelvin connection to the node on the other end in which case the arrow should point to wherever that other track is leading.So, when's the book out?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:08:32 pm
content: Yes altium can know that if i inject a net-tie object on the part that requires the kelvin connection. In that case altium will not let me tie it at the component. Net ties are made for that so you can create things like sense lines kelvin points or star points. Simlly drop where you need it and altium will do that. Like i said : i wont complain if dex cant do that. I will mention such a thing does exist but i wont comain if dex does not have that capability.The connection you made in your first drawing is not allowed. Such commections lead to cracking of the copper and have a possibility to create false posisitves during AOI (automatic optical inspection) both during etch and post soldering. In case the mask needs modification due to the mask sliver to be too small then this stub of copper will wick away paste leading to bad solder joints and again failing aoi. These are manufactuirng problems that must, i repeat MUST, be solved during layout. The layouter meed to know this and the layout tool should not give 'bad ' suggestions. It is bad practice to route a board that way. Manufacturing terances , copper thick ess and kther factors may require that sliver of mask to disappear during production and then the problems begin. Such defects are caught in the DFM portion of the board layout process . dFM : design for manufacturability. There is also dft design for testability which involves creating testpoints for ate bed of nails or flying probe. That too is the task of the layouter and the cad tool must understand the aging rules like the probe pitch , detecting connections without testpads and other rules.Good software has that understanding and provides the tools to the layouter to solve the dft and dfm requirements. During the design rule check the software must flag violations against dft and dfm rules. That is why we pay the big bucks for such software.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 07:08:32 pmAs for when the book is out : that is not your worry. Actually it could be. I was hoping to give examples with DEx i the book.. If only i could make it work properly...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 07:08:32 pmIt depends on the pitch but in general I agree. On a 1.27mm pitched SOIC you can get away with it but on anything with a smaller pitch the trace should exit on the long ends of the pad. Having a trace in between pads makes it hard to check for shorts and may cause soldering issues as well.I don't mind a CAD not blocking this but it is something a PCB designer should be aware off.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:26:02 pm
content: Indeed on an so pitch of 1.27 you can get away with it. My trained layouter eye spots a quad package with much smaller pitch so the alarm bell goes off immediately. It is bad practice no matter how you twist or turn it. Not done. Any pcb layouter will immediately comment on such layout structures

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 07:08:32 pmBut I did not complete it. I took the DEX hint and did it direct. See second drawing.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:34:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2015, 07:18:55 pmI don't think the soldering issue on pin 5 would be much worse than pin 9. The routing was done with Electra.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 07:10:11 pm

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 07:58:57 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 07:34:58 pmThe problem isn't with pin 5 or 9. The problem is the direct connection between pins 6 & 7. If you route a trace between pads this way it looks like the board has a unintended short due to solder bridging between 6 & 7 after soldering. This is bad because it will trick people into thinking there is a soldering problem with the board OR ignore unintended shorts due to solder bridging. Always route connections between adjacent fine pitch pads from the long end of the pads.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:01:35 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 05:12:42 pm

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2015, 07:58:57 pmSorry, I mean pin 6 and 7.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 07:30:04 pmYou dont seem to understand what we are talking about . The short vertical trace between pin 6 and 7 is what i am talking about. That is not allowed for the detailed reasons i listed.Anyway you will mot learn this stuff from books , you need access to the standards from IPC and you will need tot talk to people doing board design for production. A lot of this stuff you learn by sending a design to manufacturing and having it shot down in flames. There are courses you can follow like the CID course from IPC but that is only the basics. It takes years to know all the intricacities.There are some good courses at certain universisties like the emc course from mark montrose (which i did and aced it with top score)Ather good books are the handbook of black magic (yes that is whats it called) and the books from the speeding edge: pcb layout done right the first time. There is emc for pcb design as well. I will post a list of the books i have laying around that deal with some of the complex stuff.Pcb technology has evolved tremendously from when you did layout on rubylith. Accept that there is a whole bunch you do not know. That reflects on dex as well. I have listed several things that are minimum requirements to do a modern board. Stuff gets really complex once you start doing HDI boards . I just did a board that has 0402 parts with 4 mil track and gap as smallest feature and simultaneously traces that need to hold 100 ampere. Creating the structures for such currents alone is bery comex as you need to spread power vertically through the layers.Via stitching rules for example, taking into account plating thickness , ohmic differences betwen ated and rolled copper. You cant ace voas too close together because the hole wall will warp. You need to know the weave of the material to guarantee enough strands and mot cause in hole delamination. All that stuff needs looking at and then design rules are set up so that once we start drawing we cannot violate any rule. Mechanical rules , placement rules , soldering rules. Electromagnetic rules testability rules and much more.A good software can handle these conex rule sets and work interactively with the layouter to make sure no violations creep in.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:15:08 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 08:01:35 pmLook, your drivel is getting a bit long in the tooth... You seem to be good to spot the mistakes in someone elses stuff but you cant recognise the blatant mistakes and huge shortcomings of your own stuff.Go on, read your books, write one yourself if you want to ,and go fix the problems in your software.If you don't want any of my advice anymore then tell me, i can spend my time better than trying to help you improve dex.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:29:23 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 08:15:08 pmI was following your advice and got the 404 error in my search. Appears Altium of all people screwed up.Yes they do sell Altium.http://www.eda.co.uk/http://premiereda.blogspot.co.uk/This is their Farnborough road show.And this is their Edinburgh road showThis points out how you don't need to sell many Altium Designers to break even.Anyway, I'll try elsewhere. Got a book to write.Here's some advice for youhttps://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101204063922AA93s6K

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:37:50 pm
content: I don't care if i is written with capital or not. I'm not that blase (french word look it up) and if the spell checker on the iphone can't pick it up so be it.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:38:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 12, 2015, 11:58:54 amDear free-electronCan you please share some of the book with me?

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 08:42:43 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 08:37:50 pmWere you not taught it in school.The Importance of Grammar and Spellinghttp://kevinjbrowne.weebly.com/grammar-and-spelling.htmlThe major problem with poor grammar and spelling is the impression it creates for the reader of your document. Consider the following real example:"Mr. Browne i was e mailing you to see if there is anyway you can let me into ur class. Im going into teaching and this will eb my last semister and i need this class if it aint to much to ask can u let me in the class thanks."Here this student is requesting entry into my class. Look at the number of misspelled words and the poor grammar (including the use of "aint") in this short note. Do you think I allowed this student to enroll in my class? No!No one is going to take you seriously if you don't take the time to proofread your document. It's no good saying that you simply write like you talk. This is simply unacceptable. What poor grammar and spelling indicates is one of two things. 1. You're not intelligent enough to write any better. 2. You don't care enough to write any better. Either impression is negative.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:03:01 pm
content: Come on.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:05:46 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 08:37:50 pmJust checked both my iPad and my Samsung S3.I don't care if i is..is auto-converted toI don't care ifIis...I did not need to use a spell checker.Note the capital I. It appears you don't even know how to use a phone. How can you be trusted with reviewing software. No wonder you are so confused.As for giving me advice, I'll pass on that one.No one is going to take you seriously if you don't take the time to proofread your document. It's no good saying that you simply write like you talk. This is simply unacceptable. What poor grammar and spelling indicates is one of two things. 1. You're not intelligent enough to write any better. 2. You don't care enough to write any better. Either impression is negative.I'm done with you. Enough is enough.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:09:23 pm
content: seriously, quit nagging about the spelling.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:13:45 pm
content: Maybe you can write a book about how to turn on the spell checker on the iphone. Mine seems to be broken. I am not a native english speaker , and neither are you judging from the accent in your video's man you are hard to understand.I rely heavily on spellcheckers , thesaurus and proof readers that fix this.So there you have it.And no i cannot release portions of the book because that would be breach of contract.I amy post a few pages as pdf in a few months as sneak peek but right now none of the graphics are done. Without graphics the text is hard to follow.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:31:36 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on February 12, 2015, 09:09:23 pmI agree. Complaining or attacking people based on spelling and/or grammer is seriouslyNOT DONEon internet foraSo quit the childish bickering and get on topic. Please play the ball and not the man.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:36:08 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 09:05:46 pmYou are rejecting his input because of minor grammatical errors, and yet you're incapable of posting a quote without messing it up.Are you familiar with the expression 'the pot calling the kettle black'? You're the pot. A very big pot.As for this book you now plan to write, I'm afraid it won't be much of an authority on the subject. Reading a few books doesn't get you there. Making hundreds or thousands of boards does.There's someone in this thread who's made hundreds of boards.. what was his name.. Oh, right. Vincent Himpe. free_electron. Works for Tesla Motors, has been published multiple times.. He's not worth listening to though, he doesn't bother to triple check every word he types in a forum.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 09:39:38 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 12, 2015, 08:15:08 pm^^This and the what I can only describe as attempted bullying that follows from Iliya is why you shouldn't bother trying to help him!He blatantly does not care what you think of his software, I doubt he will take any of your advice, and will bury his snout in the ground (his head won't fit!), and he would rather complain about / make fun of spelling and grammar than take your free advice and fix his software.Having bad spelling and grammar is not a sign of low intelligence, it's a sign that he is busy with other things to reply to your bitching emails about something which quite frankly does not matter, if you don't want to take his advice, then don't, simples!I find it bizarre that an author of a PCB software program is asking for advice on how to design PCB's, but there you go.Unfortunately (for you, I couldn't give a shit) you have missed a prime opportunity for people to HELP you improve your software, something which after seeing how you have responded to free_electron, after he has spent his time trying to assist you, I wouldn't (and I suspect a fair few others wouldn't) touch with a pointy shit stick, and would not recommend it to anyone else.Had your attitude have been different then it might be a different story, but nope, you just keep sitting there taking the piss out of everyone who tries to help you and see how far you get!

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:10:26 pm
content: Vincent, i have to agree with Iliya on one thing.Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 03:23:41 pmDevote more time on writing your book!Whether you include Dex in your book or not does not matter at all.The time you spend with Dex always seems to end in an argument with Iliya. The time you spend arguing with Iliyia is time not spent on your book.Do what you want or need to do, but seeing two threads becoming filled with arguments between Iliya and you, i rather wish that you work on your book instead of spending so much of your time with Iliya/Dex. I think, in the end, much more people are looking forward to read your book than having any kind of interest in Dex. (Guess what i would throw my money at...)

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:11:48 pm
content: Quote from: Iliya on February 12, 2015, 09:05:46 pm… and yet when people tell you that no-one will take your product seriously when all the examples look amateurish, slapped-together and generally poorly executed (seriously, it tookweeksbefore we saw anything even vaguely real-PCB-like in the various threads about DEX), they're being unfair by holding you to the standards of other, better packages and are just out to pick fault. Right. Just so we're clear on that.Look, you have not only admitted but demonstrated beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that you are not familiar with the intricacies of proper PCB design. What on earth do you gain by alienating anybody who tries to actually help with information about what they need to get the job done properly?

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: elgonzo on February 12, 2015, 10:10:26 pmI see passion, expertise and skills on both sides. The passion is shared (both are passionate about PCB design, you can sense that from the posts) ,the expertise and skills are divided: Vincent on PCB design and PCB software use, Iliya on software design and graphical programming.If this would result into 1+1=3, that would be a great outcome. The conversation just needs a reset on the noise.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:29:56 pm
content: If we can get them out of the loopgraven and back to the design table, we might be able to witness something exciting happening.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2015, 10:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on February 12, 2015, 10:29:27 pmHe doesn't have to suck it up - even in sales. But if he wants to have the same advice as what he was getting here from FE - with the same relevance - in a business context, it would cost big time.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 03:39:59 pm
content: Book list- Right the first time , a practical handbook on High speed PCB and system design Volume 1. Lee Ritchey- Right the first time , a practical handbook on High speed PCB and system design Volume 2. Lee Ritchey- High speed digital design coursebook. Howard Johnson- High speed digital Design , a handbook of black magic , Howard Johnson / Martin Graham- Power Supplies , switching regulators inverters and converters , Irving M.Gottlieb- EMC & the printed circuit board Mark L. Montrose- Printed Circuit Board Design Techniques for EMC . Mark L. Montrose- Signal and Power integrity. Eric Bogatin- Advanced Signal integrity for High Speed digital designs . Stephen Hall and Howard Heck-PCB Currents How they flow how the react . Douglas brooksRitchey, Bogatin , Montrose and Johnson are the 'guru's. gobble up any of their books.especially the Right the first time from Ritchey show you all the fringe effects that can have massive impact on a design. That thing goes really deep with tons of real world examples.Then there is anything you can get your hands on from IPC. that alone is enough material to keep you reading for a few years ... You are better of becoming a member with full access than to buy the standards individually. IPC really covers every aspect from the board design cradle to grave. including assembly , soldering, DFM DFT , procurement , quality control the whole shebang.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 04:03:44 pm
content: Right The First Time is free, I must check that out.http://www.thehighspeeddesignbook.com/

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 04:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on February 13, 2015, 04:03:44 pmOr, if you go via Amazon, you find "£1,246.18 + £2.80 UK delivery. Used, good: average wear, reasonable shape, may have limited notes and/or highlighting".

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 04:15:33 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on February 13, 2015, 04:13:04 pmI have heard some of this is automatically controlled pricing. Sellers have bots that price books based on what other have them priced at. Occasionally you get two bots entering into escalating pricing wars even when no one is buying...

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 04:23:36 pm
content: The pdf edition of Right The First Time looks pretty good on a Kindle, text is large enough to be readable and the figures look good on the B&W display.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 04:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on February 13, 2015, 04:03:44 pmOnly the first volume is free. Second volume you need to buy. Oops. it's not free, it came with volume 2 on a cd. Bought mine used in a local shop here for 30$ ..That link you posted is NOT the book by ritchey. It is a scam. Some chinese dude made a pdf with lots of advertisements for board houses in it . it's got 48 chapters and every chapter is 2 or 3 pages tops.. it doesn't look anything like the real book. (i got the real book and the cd here right next to me)here is the correct link :http://speedingedge.com/.that other website is a fake.the book is 95$ and you can buy directly from Ritchey. no need for 'peddler prices'http://www.speedingedge.com/isp/store/categories.php?category=Handbooki have the cd + book version (volume 1 is cd , volume 2 is book. for a long time volume 1 was not available in print )

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 05:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 13, 2015, 04:23:40 pmWow, you are right. The pdf looks comprehensive but there is a full page ad every 6 or 7 pages.

author: DIPLover
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 08:01:28 pm
content: Thanks for the list of books free_electron.Iliya, you need to stop being so fucking hostile, man... (cue Pantera music...)I can certainly vouch for High speed digital Design, a handbook of black magic , Howard Johnson / Martin Graham.It's a great book and a goldmine.It is getting a bit long in the tooth (published ca. 1993 IIRC) and there were rumours of a second edition, Amazon even took preorders for it, then cancelled them all 6 months later...We still use it in undergraduate courses, haven't found anything better in a comparable format.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2015, 08:27:57 pm
content: one thing to remember about what you will read in the books : it is up to the DESIGNER to implement the techniques. the software can only go so far in automating that.Good software will allow you to set up a rule set and watch over it that you do not violate the rules while the designer tries to make a placement and routing.the speed with which a board can be designed is heavily driven by the tools available in the cad program. a rich toolset that can be access quickly and flexibly is the key. a small toolset with rigid set ways and controls all over the place are a hindrance to effectively do a design. it becomes too cumbersome and time consuming to alter anything then you end up with mediocre designs.a lot of times ,during design , you need to radically change placement or shift parts or push a cluster of tracks. if you need to do that by hand every time then it simply won't get done as it is too much effort. if the cad program can handle that then such things are a non-issue and the quality of the board will increase heavily. same thing for stuff like bus routing, differentials snaking , testpoint insertion and other elements.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 03:12:06 am
content: It's Valentine's Day, let's have some love here.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 09:41:40 pm
content: Does tough love count ?Made in Dex by the Author of Dex ...The 'Typical Horn Circuit"- Ford Horn Ciruit (cir-uit typo -1-)- for a ..dodge viper (car image -2-)- with three horns (yeah sure, typical cars have three horns. -3-)- with a shorted relay coil (that relay never does anything -4-)- and missing connection dots (at least 5 of em -5,6,7,8 and 9 -)- and a switch that does nothing but connect the horns, through a resistor and a mystery box labeled 'y', to ground. -10-- on a sheet labeled 'Horn Ciruit' (Cir-uit typo -11-)Designed by someone appropriately named Art, initials S.M. . At least Art is happy with Dex: it fits his S.M. tendencies to a dot.So there is at least one known customer that uses it...And all this at revision 1:8 .At this rate we're going to need 64 bit integers for revision numbers , before we get this one error-free.Maybe we should use floating point numbers as DEX is really good with em. The zero: zero coordinate can be represented in at least three incorrect ways. All close to, but not quite, zero.Love and kisses.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 02:54:00 pm
content: I have fixed example that comes with DEX. It is meant as an example to show you the type of graphics you can do and not to be an actual real car diagram.

author: LordNobady
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 03:01:50 pm
content: S1 is not doing much. nothing at all to be exactly.try connecting the swich between the VCC and the relay coil, and the other side of the coil to the Ground.

author: Iliya
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 03:19:43 pm
content: Quote from: LordNobady on February 27, 2015, 03:01:50 pm

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 07:09:02 pm
content: Yep. The relay winding can not be energised without a current source.The switch must be in series with a branch from battery red and the other side of the relay to GND.

author: Josephine85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2015, 09:56:01 am
content: this is s a useful collection of books and pdfs. helped ma a lot. thankls for that.also find some good books here:http://www.cadsoftusa.com/training-service/manuals-books/i am working with cadsoft eagle, so these ones are perfect for me