Bought a Rigol DS1054Z with a defective LCD - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 05:50:51 pm
content: Hello,Few days ago I've bought an awesome Rigol DS1054Z digital oscilloscope, and today I've made a special rack / wall mount for it, and when I looked directly at the screen, I've noticed some terrible stuff. Initially I thought that it's just dirty so I took a towel and some window cleaner and gave it a gentle wipe - but no, the marks are still there. Upon closer inspection, it looks as if the screen has been scratched from the inside? When there was a bit of lint on top of the screen and I moved my head about, I could see that the marks were deeper down in regard to the top piece. This is ridiculous, it was brand new gear factory sealed from a respected distributor. How did this make through the factory inspection? Or is there even any inspection at all?What should I do with this? I think I will give the distributor a call on monday and ask for a replacement. In meanwhile, take a look at those awful marks. The top of the screen is immaculate, everything you see is on the inside. It was extremely hard to capture with a camera. It's at least 10 times worse in person! Camera only shows parts that are lit up, but I can see everything all the time while looking directly at the screen. And they also don't disappear when the scope is turned on. Unacceptable quality. It's a shame because other than that it's a really good value for money.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 06:14:19 pm
content: Looks like some youtuber did a not-too-careful teardown video on it then sent it back.Where did you get it?When it arrived was it sealed in a double box? (one box inside another box)If you only got it a couple of days ago then definitely send it back.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 06:57:51 pm
content: I bought it locally from a company that sells test equipment. The lady broke open the factory RIGOL branded seals/tapes when I was there and was checking something, serial number to fill out a warranty card I think. It was in two boxes indeed. I got it on 5th of july, day after my birthday... what a disappointment...It was definitely factory sealed, and factory scratched too!Maybe Rigol had it returned before and "refurbished/remanufactured" it? Seems unlikely, I think it was a Chinese assembly worker that wasn't careful enough. I'm really stunned about the fact that it had made it through quality inspection and calibration.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 07:35:21 pm
content: Quote from: FrozenHaxor on July 09, 2016, 06:57:51 pmIf these scratches or marks were indeed made in the factory (or were present in the raw coverglass material and went unnoticed), that's obviously not good. And I can certainly relate to your disappointment, and the annoyance about having to get the scope replaced.But I understand that it took you four days of ownership to notice the scratches. So they were probably not that obvious, or only obvious under certain lighting conditions. Please consider that when setting your expectations in Rigol's quality control. I don't think Rigol -- or any other manufacturer of budget equipment -- can spend more than a few minutes per unit on QA.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 09:43:46 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 09, 2016, 07:35:21 pmActually I saw that when I took it right out of the box, but it didn't even occur to me that it might be damage, I thought it's just dirty from a finger touch during packaging or something, then I used the scope in a way that I looked at it from an upward angle, and they were completely invisible. Today I build a wall mounted rack/stand/shelf type of thing where it sits directly in a parallel manner to me. That plus the angle of my lab lighting made it pop out so much that now it's the only thing I see on this scope...I know for sure that Rigol has left a sour taste in my mouth, and my lab probably won't be seeing any of their equipment any time soon.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 09:59:59 pm
content: Not to be kicking the hornets' nest here but put things into perspective. Your scope works, you have a cosmetic issue that becomes annoying under certain circumstances. I agree, get a new scope, I would also but to swear off of Rigol equipment is, in my opinion, a little over the top. Realistically, there is no such thing as 100% Q.C. $100K+ Teslas roll off the assembly line with issues, so will a $400 oscilloscope. Mind you, I don't have a Rigol scope,I am not a fanboy, I have a hacked Hantek that I got for a very good price from a forum member.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:17:09 pm
content: Quote from: FrozenHaxor on July 09, 2016, 09:43:46 pmI hope that your dealer will put this right for you quickly. With regard to future equipment purchases: In my view, there's no point anyway in collecting equipment from one manufacturer only. Buy whatever meets your requirements and budget best, whether it's Rigol, another Asian low-cost brand, or maybe used higher-end equipment in some cases. You might even come to appreciate the Rigol's build quality in comparison with other budget manufacturers.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2016, 10:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on July 09, 2016, 09:59:59 pmI guess you're right. Sure it works, but you see, my other hobby is car detailing so I guess you know where this is goingI'm too much of a perfectionist about all the little things that I get aggravated alot over such stuff. I might have went a tad too hard on Rigol in general, but jeez. What happened here is sketchy from a customers point of view, especially since it's my first apparatus from Rigol, never had such issues with Agilent or even Atten.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 12:31:26 am
content: Quote from: FrozenHaxor on July 09, 2016, 10:30:18 pmIf you're that much of a perfectionist you might want to avoid Rigol.The LCD is was probably defective when sent to Rigol - should have been caught by QC though(guess we're assuming there is a QC). Anyway hopefully it isn't too huge a hassle to get it replaced. It is a very nice scope that I am sure you'll enjoy once replaced.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 01:33:17 am
content: You bought it in a shop and it was unboxed and sold to you in person. I would say that's it as you had your opportunity to inspect it with a fine tooth comb and loupe plus microscope and high power light sources from all angles when you were thereIf it was mail order then you could send it back under your mail order protection scheme. Or perhaps be more sensible and use the opportunity to wangle a few quid back for a trivial imperfection knowing the seller is on the backfoot.Tell me again, how much do you pay for a "detail" job on a car? Do you really expect Rigol to polish and wax your scope to such an anal degree for the price?

author: LightlyDoped
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 07:33:33 am
content: When you get your replacement scope, you might want to avoid using window cleaner on the screen. It's not a windshield.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 09:41:42 am
content: Quote from: LightlyDoped on July 10, 2016, 07:33:33 amWindow cleaner is one of the best cleaning things around for this sort of thing.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 01:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 10, 2016, 09:41:42 amIndeed it isI use ammonia free stuff though (Meguiar's Perfect Clarity Glass Cleaner). It appears relatively safe.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 02:32:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on July 10, 2016, 09:41:42 amNo, it's really not. Most window cleaner is made for glass and contains ammonia, or other chemicals that can etch plastics and cause them to fog. That's assuming there's even a clear, hard plastic window over your LCD in the first place, which is rarely the case. Using a cleaning solution not specifically designed for a bare LCD can eat away at the protective coating and will damage it with repeated use.Ideally, you would use canned air to remove any dust and debris, followed by a dry microfiber cloth, to remove smudges.For stubborn stuff, like greasy fingerprints, you can mix one or two *drops* of unscented dish liquid (Dawn is very good for this) in a spray bottle with *distilled* water (tap water contains minerals, which is what causes water spotting when it drys). You could also do a 1:1 mix of ~20% Isopropyl Alcohol and distilled water (giving you a 10% Iso mix); the alcohol speeds drying and helps with grease!The above recipe also works well for for clear polycarbonate (such as eyeglasses), just make sure you use a clean microfiber cloth free of any hair or dirt. (Personally, I use ChemWipes to clean my glasses, screens, etc.) Do *not* use paper towels or toilet paper, it's abrasive!

author: whitevamp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 03:38:25 pm
content: just my 2¢1:1 one part water to 1 part vinegar.i find it works better then dawn or anything else.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 05:21:47 pm
content: Quote from: timb on July 10, 2016, 02:32:47 pmI would avoid using isopropanol, I've had it damage plastic surface finish before.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 06:22:48 pm
content: Quote from: FrozenHaxor on July 09, 2016, 06:57:51 pmluckily, just send it back. dont further clean it with window cleaner or anything even distilled water, window cleaner wont cure a deep scratch like that, the only cure is send it back and get a replacement. dont further reply in this thread, move your ass this minute to your local shop, tomorrow if now is late night. customer always right.

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 07:21:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on July 10, 2016, 06:22:48 pmIt's sunday my friend, I will drive by them tomorrow. Shouldn't give me hard time really.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2016, 10:25:20 pm
content: Agreed. Since the damage is on the inside of the screen, it should be a no-hassle exchange.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 12:38:40 am
content: Quote from: FrozenHaxor on July 10, 2016, 05:21:47 pmSame here, but only when using straight ~90% Iso. Diluting it down to a 10% mix should be more than safe for all types of clear hard plastics and soft LCD screens. (Common commercial eyeglass cleaner sprays are just 10% Alcohol, 89% Aqua, 1% Detergent solutions. If that's good enough to clean polycarbonate lenses without stripping off the anti-glare/UV coatings, it's good enough to not damage an LCD's coatings.)I restore a lot of vintage test gear, and when I do, I actually take it completely apart, disassembling the case, etc, so it can be scrubbed and detailed. After washing cases (both metal and plastic) in a bathtub with dish detergent, I rinse with clean tap water and rinse again with a 1:9 Iso/Distilled water mix in a spray bottle, then let air dry.I've never had an issue doing that, even with old plastics. (Except the time I grabbed the wrong spray bottle and hit a 1970's vintage plastic instrument case with ~90% Iso; the black plastic turned a chalky white! Luckily, an application of Mother's Back to Black after a bit of buffing brought it back to life.)

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 05:48:48 am
content: Quote from: timb on July 11, 2016, 12:38:40 amQuote from: timb on July 11, 2016, 12:38:40 amPhew!

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 01:11:47 pm
content: I drove by them today, and they were extremely nice about it. The owner of the company turned out to be a great guy and we had a little chit chat about electronics and equipment in general. He compared with me several scopes from the same batch and none of them had this issue. It turned out under his inspection light that my screen was even more damaged than I thought, there was a radial stress mark in the middle of it, and he said it's a good thing I returned it because it might have failed after a few years due to the damage.He also asked if I knew about the "upgrades" and if I need any help with them, lol!definitely going to do further business with this company!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 03:21:55 pm
content: I'm glad to hear that this turned out well for you!From looking at your most recent photo, it seems that the company you bought from is NDN in Poland?Nothing wrong with giving them a little plug here, I think ;-)

author: FrozenHaxor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 04:52:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 11, 2016, 03:21:55 pmThank you!Yes indeed, that's the company. I've bought from them once before and always received good service.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2016, 11:04:02 pm
content: Yeah, good thing you exchanged it. Having the screen die completely after the warranty would be a real bummer. Thanks for the update.