Allergy to Wifi and mobile phones - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 03:31:49 am
content: I guess she should not make EE her hobby.Woman can’t leave her house because of an allergy to Wifi and mobile phonesSource:http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/21/woman-cant-leave-her-house-because-of-an-allergy-to-wifi-and-mobile-phones-6336490/#ixzz4TXA6n6RM"The former nurse has to wear a shielded bed net on the rare occasions she leaves her home and can only visit places with poor mobile phone reception......When the town got 3G signal Kim started to experience breathlessness and heart palpitations and moved to Chard, Somerset.She said: ‘My head felt like it was going to implode and explode at the same time.‘I was also getting breathlessness, heart palpitations and lower back pain. I had started to suffer from serious ear aches and was becoming really sensitive to light..."

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:06:46 am
content: There is evidence that heavy cellphone use causes certain kinds of brain cancer.Also, mold, constant exposure to hydocarbon fumes, the smell of burning rubber, many perfumes, and engineered nanoparticicles in the environment (or diesel exhaust) can individually or in combination create something- a state of immune system hyper-responsiveness, that might be called "toxicant induced loss of tolerance" . Thats a situation thats quite real.The more people are exposed to harmful substances on a regular basis, the more common things like that get!Its potentially very very costly to society if we ignore the need to get these things out of our environment. Pretending they don't exist just destroys peoples trust in regulators.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:19:51 am
content: Heavy cellphone users are brain damaged in the first place.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:27:27 am
content: I should pay her a visit and drop off a couple battery powered APs, see how ill she doesn't get without knowing they're there.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:34:11 am
content: With any luck, that person will lose the human race sooner rather than later.Can't somebody just drop by and kick her square in the box? What a piece of amphibian shit...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:56:41 am
content: We still don't fully understand the role of pro-oxidant stimuli on the immune system. They may have a signaling function. The immune system's function is to remember events that represent threats to the body's vital systems and one of the things that threatens the body is a sudden decrement in its "redox state".Some exposures to RF (the ones that create measurable changes are lower than action levels) influence the body's redox state. That much is known.We see people like (extreme example) the Panawave cult in Japan- and laugh, but there is *some* basis in fact for reasons to avoid strong RF exposures. Especially right next to your head. Low glutathione may make people more sensitive to cell damage from RF, so its reasonable to draw a connection. The body is smarter than we think.Hmm.. here is a potential antidote- seriously- this is not surprising, NAC increases glutathione. NAC is also radioprotective.E. Ozgur, G. Gler, and N. Seyhan, “Mobile phone radiation-induced free radical damage in the liver is inhibited by the antioxidants n-acetyl cysteine and epigallocatechin-gallate,” International Journal of Radiation Biology, vol. 86, no. 11, pp. 935–945, 2010http://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/35510070/Ozgur_etal_2010_IJRB.pdffound in..https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijcb/2012/683897/International Journal of Cell BiologyVolume 2012 (2012), Article ID 683897, 16 pageshttp://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2012/683897Review ArticleElectromagnetic Fields, Oxidative Stress, and NeurodegenerationClaudia Consales, Caterina Merla, Carmela Marino, and Barbara BenassiUnit of Radiation Biology and Human Health, ENEA-Casaccia, Rome 00123, Italy

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 05:29:01 am
content: Quote from: cdev on December 22, 2016, 04:06:46 amThere is? Can you cite reputable sources? Last time I checked, research showed that there was no conclusive link between RF from mobile phones, Bluetooth devices and consumer Wi-Fi devices and tissue damage, let alone the cause of cancer.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 06:05:06 am
content: A quick scan of PubMed reveals an approximately equal number of studies that found associations at higher exposure durations and urged caution (use of hands free headsets) and those that found no significant increase in risk from exposures. Generally, it seems long term use does carry significant risk. I think its smart to be cautious.here is a sampling. (Below) But the main point I am trying to make is that anything that is pro-oxidant likely has a potential under some conditions, of causing serious illness in some people in an additive manner. So many things we are exposed to depleteglutathione, strong RF being one of them. So its wise to avoid them. Cancer is basically a disease that occurs when the body's first line repair mechanisms get used up, so its wise to try to avoid depleting them any more rapidly than necessary. Thats also why NAC (n-acetylcysteine) is a good thing to take.1: Morgan LL, Miller AB, Sasco A, Davis DL. Mobile phone radiation causes braintumors and should be classified as a probable human carcinogen (2A) (review). IntJ Oncol. 2015 May;46(5):1865-71. doi: 10.3892/ijo.2015.2908. Review. PubMed PMID:25738972.2: Yoon S, Choi JW, Lee E, An H, Choi HD, Kim N. Mobile phone use and risk ofglioma: a case-control study in Korea for 2002-2007. Environ Health Toxicol. 2015Dec 21;30:e2015015. doi: 10.5620/eht.e2015015. PubMed PMID: 26726040; PubMedCentral PMCID: PMC4872697.3: Carlberg M, Hardell L. Decreased survival of glioma patients with astrocytomagrade IV (glioblastoma multiforme) associated with long-term use of mobile andcordless phones. Int J Environ Res Public Health. 2014 Oct 16;11(10):10790-805.doi: 10.3390/ijerph111010790. PubMed PMID: 25325361; PubMed Central PMCID:PMC4211006.4: Vijayalaxmi, Prihoda TJ. Mobile phones, non-ionizing radiofrequency fields andbrain cancer: is there an adaptive response? Dose Response. 2014 Apr22;12(3):509-14. doi: 10.2203/dose-response.14-012.Vijayalaxmi. PubMed PMID:25249839; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC4146338.5: Coureau G, Bouvier G, Lebailly P, Fabbro-Peray P, Gruber A, Leffondre K,Guillamo JS, Loiseau H, Mathoulin-Pélissier S, Salamon R, Baldi I. Mobile phoneuse and brain tumours in the CERENAT case-control study. Occup Environ Med. 2014Jul;71(7):514-22. doi: 10.1136/oemed-2013-101754. PubMed PMID: 24816517.6: Lee Titsworth W, Murad GJ, Hoh BL, Rahman M. Fighting fire with fire: therevival of thermotherapy for gliomas. Anticancer Res. 2014 Feb;34(2):565-74.Review. PubMed PMID: 24510985.7: Mihailovi? G, Markovi? M, Zivkovi? N, Mihailovi? G, Markovi? M, Berisavac I,Spai? M. [Epidemiological features of brain tumors]. Srp Arh Celok Lek. 2013Nov-Dec;141(11-12):823-9. Serbian. PubMed PMID: 24502107.8: Lagorio S, Röösli M. Mobile phone use and risk of intracranial tumors: aconsistency analysis. Bioelectromagnetics. 2014 Feb;35(2):79-90. doi:10.1002/bem.21829. Review. PubMed PMID: 24375548.9: Hardell L, Carlberg M, Söderqvist F, Mild KH. Case-control study of theassociation between malignant brain tumours diagnosed between 2007 and 2009 andmobile and cordless phone use. Int J Oncol. 2013 Dec;43(6):1833-45. doi:10.3892/ijo.2013.2111. PubMed PMID: 24064953; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC3834325.10: Hardell L, Carlberg M, Hansson Mild K. Use of mobile phones and cordlessphones is associated with increased risk for glioma and acoustic neuroma.Pathophysiology. 2013 Apr;20(2):85-110. doi: 10.1016/j.pathophys.2012.11.001.PubMed PMID: 23261330.11: Grigor'ev IuG. [The probability of developing brain tumours among users ofcellular telephones (scientific information to the decision of the InternationalAgency for Research on Cancer (IARC) announced on May 31, 2011)]. Radiats BiolRadioecol. 2011 Sep-Oct;51(5):633-8. Russian. PubMed PMID: 22279776.12: L'Abbate N. [Motivation and significance of IARC classification for mobilephone]. G Ital Med Lav Ergon. 2011 Jul-Sep;33(3 Suppl):384-7. Italian. PubMedPMID: 23393882.13: INTERPHONE Study Group.. Brain tumour risk in relation to mobile telephoneuse: results of the INTERPHONE international case-control study. Int J Epidemiol.2010 Jun;39(3):675-94. doi: 10.1093/ije/dyq079. Erratum in: Int J Epidemiol. 2012Feb;41(1):328. Montestruq, L [corrected to Montestrucq, L]. PubMed PMID:20483835.14: Ahlbom A, Feychting M, Green A, Kheifets L, Savitz DA, Swerdlow AJ; ICNIRP(International Commission for Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection) StandingCommittee on Epidemiology.. Epidemiologic evidence on mobile phones and tumorrisk: a review. Epidemiology. 2009 Sep;20(5):639-52. doi:10.1097/EDE.0b013e3181b0927d. Review. PubMed PMID: 19593153.15: Croft RJ, McKenzie RJ, Inyang I, Benke GP, Anderson V, Abramson MJ. Mobilephones and brain tumours: a review of epidemiological research. Australas PhysEng Sci Med. 2008 Dec;31(4):255-67. Review. PubMed PMID: 19239052.16: Hartikka H, Heinävaara S, Mäntylä R, Kähärä V, Kurttio P, Auvinen A. Mobilephone use and location of glioma: a case-case analysis. Bioelectromagnetics. 2009Apr;30(3):176-82. doi: 10.1002/bem.20471. PubMed PMID: 19142876.17: Karipidis KK, Benke G, Sim MR, Kauppinen T, Giles G. Occupational exposure toionizing and non-ionizing radiation and risk of glioma. Occup Med (Lond). 2007Oct;57(7):518-24. PubMed PMID: 17728306.18: Hours M, Bernard M, Montestrucq L, Arslan M, Bergeret A, Deltour I, Cardis E.[Cell Phones and Risk of brain and acoustic nerve tumours: the French INTERPHONEcase-control study]. Rev Epidemiol Sante Publique. 2007 Oct;55(5):321-32. French.PubMed PMID: 17851009.19: Takebayashi T, Varsier N, Kikuchi Y, Wake K, Taki M, Watanabe S, Akiba S,Yamaguchi N. Mobile phone use, exposure to radiofrequency electromagnetic field,and brain tumour: a case-control study. Br J Cancer. 2008 Feb 12;98(3):652-9.doi: 10.1038/sj.bjc.6604214. PubMed PMID: 18256587; PubMed Central PMCID:PMC2243154.20: Schüz J, Böhler E, Schlehofer B, Berg G, Schlaefer K, Hettinger I,Kunna-Grass K, Wahrendorf J, Blettner M. Radiofrequency electromagnetic fieldsemitted from base stations of DECT cordless phones and the risk of glioma andmeningioma (Interphone Study Group, Germany). Radiat Res. 2006 Jul;166(1 Pt1):116-9. PubMed PMID: 16808597.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 06:55:00 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 22, 2016, 05:29:01 amNot to mention the question of are the negative effects (if any) from the RF or from the other effects of holding a self heating block of electronics against your head? More control groups please.Also, the WHO promised answers this year:http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs193/en/

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 11:16:18 am
content: It's quite ridiculous, unless strong proof is shown.First, it's a rather curious case of "application dependent" effects. Transmission on the 900 MHz band, the mobile phone frequency when people begun to complain, are not new. That band has been populated with very strong TV transmissions for a very long time. Urban areas are literally flooded with transmissions all over the spectrum. From MW broadcast transmissions to UHF television. Now, suddenly, mobile phones or WiFi networks are harmful?The 2.4 and 10 GHz bands are used, for example, by microwave motion detectors in alarm applications. Has anyone complained before? Not that I know.If this was true, people who live in harbor areas would grow tentacles by now. Many ships approach harbors with the radar operating, and it's a rather powerful microwave source. Also, some arguments against mobile phones attribute the problemsto being "pulsed" (like the old GSM phones). Current technology is not TDMA, hence not "pulsed" in the same way. Radar is pulsed, though.For those who want long term studies, well, mobile phones have been in widespread use for more than 20 years now. Data from European public healthcare doesn't show any correlation between mobile phone usage and tumors in 20 years.So? Physics doesn't suggest any particular problem unless we consider thermal effects. But for thermal effects to be significant you need a lot of power.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 11:32:36 am
content: You can also kill yourself by playing video-game too:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020462/Xbox-addict-20-killed-blood-clot-12-hour-gaming-sessions.htmlAnd it's way more credible than the allergy to wifi...

author: KhronX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 11:39:42 am
content: Are you implying she might be, as the saying goes, "full of hot air"?Quote from: borjam on December 22, 2016, 11:16:18 am

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 11:47:45 am
content: Quote from: KhronX on December 22, 2016, 11:39:42 amAs far as I know, a recent ruling recognised "electromagnetic sensibility" as a mental illness. Call it "antennaphobia". If I remember well, there was a case a two years ago in Spain. A woman sued because there was an antenna close to her home and it was causing her all sort of mayhem. The thing is, the transmission equipment wasn't installed yet. It wasn't physically there if I remember correctly.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 03:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on December 22, 2016, 06:05:06 amThat's a good sign that there is no actual causation.Humans on Earth have been subject to RF for over a century and if there were real negative health effects (beyond heating caused by ultra-high power), we would certainly have seen them by now.Quote from: borjam on December 22, 2016, 11:47:45 amThat reminds me of this:https://mybroadband.co.za/news/wireless/11099-massive-revelation-in-iburst-tower-battle.html

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:01:07 pm
content: I doubt if her "allergy to wifi" is supported by fact but the effect of (higher levels of) RF on human tissue is certainly measurable and there are times, at a cellular level, when theglutathioneit depletes makes the difference between, say, getting cancer and not getting cancer, or birth defects and not getting them. RF causes various changes. Thats why we have limits on RF.Also, there arethings like this.J Natl Cancer Inst.1987 Aug;79(2):233-8.Brain tumor mortality risk among men with electrical and electronics jobs: a case-control study.Link:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3474455AbstractBrain tumor risk associated with electrical and electronics jobs and with occupational exposure to microwave and radiofrequency (MW/RF) electromagnetic radiation was evaluated with the use of data from a death certificate-based case-control study of brain tumors and occupational risk factors in northern New Jersey, Philadelphia, PA, and southern Louisiana. Next-of-kin of 435 white men who died of a primary brain tumor and of 386 controls who died from other causes were interviewed to obtain information on lifetime occupational history and other factors that might be related to excess brain tumor risk. The relative risk (RR) for all brain tumors was elevated among men exposed to MW/RF radiation [RR = 1.6; 95% confidence interval (Cl) = 1.0, 2.4] and was significantly elevated among men exposed for 20 or more years. All of the excess risk for MW/RF radiation-exposed subjects was derived from jobs that involved the design, manufacture, repair, or installation of electrical or electronic equipment (RR = 2.3; 95% Cl = 1.3, 4.2), while risk of brain tumors among MW/RF radiation-exposed subjects who never worked in electrical or electronics jobs was not elevated (RR = 1.0; 95% Cl = 0.5, 1.9). Furthermore, risk was elevated for electronics workers who were considered to have no exposure to MW/RF radiation. Among electrical and electronics workers, risk was highest for engineers, teachers, technicians, repairers, and assemblers combined (RR = 3.9; 95% Cl = 1.6, 9.9) and was limited to excess risk from astrocytic tumors (RR = 4.6; 95% Cl = 1.9, 12.2). Risk of astrocytic tumors among these electronics manufacture and repair workers increased with duration of exposure to tenfold among those employed for 20 or more years. Among electricians and power and telephone linemen combined (electrical tradesmen), the RR for astrocytic tumors was slightly elevated, but not statistically significant (RR = 1., and showed no consistent evidence of a duration-response relationship. Electrical tradesmen are exposed to extremely low frequency electromagnetic radiation, while men in some jobs associated with electronics manufacture and repair are exposed to electromagnetic radiation in the very high frequency and ultra-high frequency ranges and also may be exposed to soldering fumes, solvents, and a variety of other chemicals.PMID:3474455

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:16:19 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on December 22, 2016, 04:01:07 pmBut those limits are rather high.QuoteIt's very difficult to separate variables here. Electrical and electronics jobs imply exposition to toxic and outright dangerous chemicals and fumes. Berillium oxide, lead solder, different kinds of flux...The studies seem to pick on electromagnetic radiation but there are quite a lot of factors at play. Some of those factors are already well known as dangerous.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:54:27 pm
content: Right, and also the depletion of glutathione is additive. Glutathione's availability in the body is dependent on its precursor, cysteine's availability. Glycine too but glycine is not the rate limiting one.Whey protein for example, (lots of it in milk products) is a good dietary source of cysteine.Multiple toxicants impact the glutathione pathway.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:59:51 pm
content: Worst case scenario for hysteria.They have not been in the news recently, but in the 80s and 90s there was a "new religion" (cult) in Japan who were frequently the subject of entertaining news stories, called "Panawave" or "Panawave Laboratory".Worth looking up!

author: sainbablo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 05:50:45 pm
content: Has any one seen/known or aware of a person who has suffered from RF related human cell disorders including malignant growths?

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 06:17:24 pm
content: I tried to find some reference about human body natural frequency, but all I could find was a bunch of biblical mumbo-jumbo or similar. There could be some truth in certain frequencies interfering with our nervous system and brain. How this affects the functions of our body, I have no idea. I could not find any detailed, reliable and accurate test reports for this.I know a few people who are sensitive to being near high voltage power lines. They get headaches and other symptoms (no tentacles growing out though). This is however very different from RF signals.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 06:54:41 pm
content: I have never heard about a double blind test where a patient started to fall ill when exposed to WiFi and/or GSM radiation andwhich clearly shows that people can start to fall ill when exposed to that kind of radiation...Such a test is very easy to setup.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 07:37:35 pm
content: The higher rate of tumour formation is very easy to explain, in that those who had them, most probably were using chlorinated hydrocarbon cleaners for decades, as those were the most common flux removers and board cleaners around. It might be interesting to compare the tumour rates with another group exposed to them, like older airconditioner, motor mechanic and white goods repairmen, who were also exposed to the same chlorinated solvents in the workplace, but who did not have the high radiation doses, but who instead had asbestos and other fine particle exposure. you probably would find a lower incidence in the electronics group, as the others would have had heavy exposure.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 07:57:39 pm
content: Sounds like she's been watching too much Better Call Saul...

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:09:37 am
content: The biggest problem with RF exposure is the fear of it. People usually start complaining about negative effects of newly installed mobile phone base stations before the installations actually get powered.It is known that excessive fear can have a negative effect on health. With RF emissions, tests showed no negative effects even with way higher levels than permitted. They also found that studies that pointed out dangers where usually down right fraught, to get more funding. This finding actually seem to have closed the discussion about 5 years ago.There are dangers in using a mobile phone to much - but this is more like causing car accidents, running against poles or falling of a cliff.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 01:05:43 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on December 23, 2016, 10:09:37 amAgree. I keep complaining when my wife multitasks with her mobile while driving.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 04:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: slicendice on December 22, 2016, 06:17:24 pmIn our final quarter at ITT years ago (yes, I'm one of those) We demonstrated a 3 watt 70 cm amateur fast scan tv transmitter and receiver we built. We built small 3 element yagi antennas mounted on 10 lengths of pvc pipe. When we powered on the transmitter to test it before the demo, my friend, who was holding the pipe with the transmitter antenna, had his muscles lock up until we powered down. We didn't know because he couldn't speak to ask us to turn it off. He was fine after a few minutes, and 17 years later, still has no tentacles growing out of his forehead.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 06:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on December 23, 2016, 10:09:37 amYes, but not as much as radiation. People freak out every time...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:13:17 pm
content: There are high tension wires near where I live, and once in a while when the weather is good, I go hiking up there with my camera and sometimes, tripod. which is woven carbon fiber. (Its a Manfrotto knock off)When unfolding the tripod or collapsing it, I can feel some tactile equivalent of a humming or something. This has never happened anywhere else.Its a square woven carbon fiber.. the kind that look like a checkerboard or basket weave.. I have no idea what it is. Probably the electrical field.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 04:54:28 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on December 23, 2016, 10:09:37 amOr falling in to fountains. That one was local to me, a woman walking in the local mall was caught on the security cam footage nose down in her cell phone texting and walking right up to and tripping into one of the decorative fountains they have at each of the mall's central intersections where an east-west wing joins the main north-south structure.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 06:21:16 am
content: Quote from: cdev on December 23, 2016, 10:13:17 pmIf going up there at dusk take along a 5ft fluorescent tube and hold it vertical, it will light up from the field gradient. Take some string to make a guyed tower of it and some tent pegs and leave it there as a night light.