multi XY views - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 04:35:39 pm
content: I am looking for a way to have multi XY views. I have a (8-bit) digital scope with a single XY view. The output is OKish quality wise for me but I want to display multiple of these. What are my options ? I saw some scopes have XYY which is OK but not ideal for me. I dont need much bandwidth, even 20MHz would be fine. Should I look for multiple basic analog scopes ? Multiple basic digital scopes ? I havent seen any scope that can do more than XYY (XY and ZU etc), is there any such unit ? It can be PC based, can PicoScope or other such units can do this ? Does the bit depth (8 vs 10 vs 12) of a digital scope have a major impact on XY view as well ?Mete

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 04:48:12 pm
content: How many is "multi"?What's the budget?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 05:01:37 pm
content: Do you mean something like you want use a 4-channel scope with two separate XY displays from CH1/CH2 and CH3/CH4? Or something else? There may be some DSOs that can do that, but I haven't seen one and I suspect that it would be higher-end models that can do this if any. Perhaps something like a Picoscope can do it in software? As for analog, this is the closest I know of and it is a bit of an unusual case:

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 05:56:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 15, 2023, 04:48:12 pmBy multi I mean not more than 4, 4 would be great (4 XY so 8 channels in total if not shared, if shared, I can live with 4 channels).Up to a few K$ for an ideal unit, but it depends, if I can use it for other purposes the budget might be higher. I can get 4 analog scopes for 1K$ but it is not very ideal as they will consume lots of space and it is difficult to capture etc.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 06:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 15, 2023, 05:01:37 pmYes. Ideally I would like to divide screen to four, and use 4 quadrants in XY mode with any combination of 4 channels. Depending on the cost and capability, I will decrease my expectations. I think I should search more about PC based scopes, I havent used any before. This is more like -I think- digitize all channels and display them, much less functionality than a scope.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 06:36:39 pm
content: I'm not aware of any stand-alone scope that can do this, except maybe the Windows based scopes that allow you to write your own software to run on the scope.I'd have thought the Lecroy X-stream (Windows) scopes could do this, but although they allow a lot of math traces and can show up to eight different YT plots at the same time, they can only show a single XY plot as far as I can see. Maybe the high end Keysight or Tek scopes, but you're not likely to find them under 1k even for the older models.So unless someone knows an affordable scope that can do this, I think your best bet is either PC based scopes, if their software supports it. I'd start by looking atPicoScope(check the software in demo mode), and maybe also ifPulseViewhappens to support this, which would allow you to use a cheaper scopesupported by Sigrok/PulseView. The alternative is controlling a four channel scope (PC-based or stand-alone) from a platform like LabVIEW, MATLAB or Octave, and doing the visualization there. This will of course increase latency and reduce refresh rate.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 07:39:25 pm
content: I quickly checked Digilent WaveForms with a demo Analog Discovery Pro (ADP3450), and it seems like it does most or all of the things I ask. Any number of XY views possible, the source for X and Y axis can be selected freely from available channels.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: alm on March 15, 2023, 06:36:39 pmYes, I also think anything from Keysight or Tek will be out of this budget.Thanks for reminding PicoScope has also a demo mode. I tried this, and it seems that it is also doing all I am asking, and it can also do XYY or XYYY on any window.So now I think the question is should I try a PicoScope (I am looking to 4424A), Digilent Analog Discovery Pro (ADP3450) or something else ? PicoScope is slightly more expensive, Digilent looks better on specs at the first look (55 vs 20 MHz, 14 vs. 12 bit, 100MS/s vs. 80MS/s). I used Digilent Digital Discovery before and I am not very fan of the interface but I also have no idea about PicoScope.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:12:36 pm
content: Look at memory depth and also what real vertical settings they have. The Analog Discovery only has two real vertical attenuator settings, with the rest handled through digital amplification, which costs dynamic range. It looks like the ADP3450 might be the same. I'd expect the PicoScope to be a better scope, but I'm not familiar with them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:35:05 pm
content: Does it have to be on one screen? Would building a few of these do the job?https://sebholzapfel.com/blog/lcd-upgrade-for-the-hp-141t-spectrum-analyzer-part-1/

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:39:58 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 15, 2023, 08:35:05 pmNo, but I think eventually I will need a video output to capture, so I think PC based is a good solution.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 09:19:16 pm
content: It should be simple enough to implement a video output on that project I posted, it has a display.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 12:19:59 am
content: The Tektronix DSA series could display up to 8 concurrent traces in color on either a single graticule or a split screen with two graticules.The traces can be 'live' views, memory traces, math derived traces, or FFT traces from up to 12 input channelsAttached are images showing two screen captures and a digital camera view of the screen.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 08:07:12 am
content: Maybe 4 'scopes with HDMI output and some sort of HDMI capture on a PC. I'm not sure what the cheapest 'scope with HDMI output is, maybe a Micsig.Or ... maybe 4 cheap 'scopes with remote web interface, eg. Siglent SDS1202X-E. I don't know what the refresh rate will be like though.Quote from: metebalci on March 15, 2023, 07:39:25 pmIt only has 6 input channels though and buying two of them to get 4 displays ain't cheap.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 08:28:46 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 16, 2023, 08:07:12 amI decided to give PicoScope (4424A) a try.Using multiple scopes is an option but it will consume too much space, so it is not my first choice.About ADP3450, it has 4 channels and they can be freely assigned to any XY view as much as I can see. This I think is also a good option but I already have a Digital Discovery, so to see something different, I decided to check PicoScope first.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 08:39:05 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 16, 2023, 08:07:12 amNo webserver in that model.Only SDS1kX-E 4ch and 2kX-E 2ch models and the more expensive ranges have webservers.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 09:04:23 am
content: Just an update for a future reader of this thread. As I said last week, I decided to give PicoScope 4424A a try. My bandwidth need is pretty low so this works quite well for me. If channels can be freely selected for any (XY) view, then 4 channels are also enough for me. I received the unit and it works fine for the questions I asked at the start of the thread:- The XY output/display quality is pretty good, the unit has 12 bit ADC so I guess this is expected.- You can have as much XY view as you want (probably there is a limit in the software but I dont know). It is possible to have XY, XYY or even XYYY on the same view. Basically you select the channel for the X-axis, and then any combination of other (3) channels for the Y-axis is possible.- Any channels can be used for any XY views, in the sense that there is no limitation like one channel can only be used on one (XY) view.- Normal (YT) views can simultaneously be used.- I do not need XYZ style views either for using Z as gate or intensity, and as far as I see it is not possible to do this with the ready-to-use software (PicoScope 7). I did not check it thoroughly, so I am not 100% sure about this.

author: donlisms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 11:35:28 am
content: I think the 4-bay Tektronix 7000 series analog scopes should be able to do this. I've never tried it; my 7904 is currently... in a... rest period, while the power supply is being renewed for the next half century.My theory is you'd just put four two-channel amplifier plugins in it (your choice of bandwidth), push some buttons to configure the vertical and horizontal, and there you go.As a bonus, the display will be MUCH prettier than anything made of pixels!

author: n4u
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 03:08:57 pm
content: You may try switch between xy1 and xy2 using mux and generator. If u do it fast enought u may be able to display two results at once (even with adsitional offset cirsuit etc)

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2023, 11:39:27 pm
content: Quote from: metebalci on March 15, 2023, 04:35:39 pmWith some very rare exceptions, analog oscilloscope horizontal bandwidth is typically in the 1 to 3 MHz range. Fast linear sweeps do not require a lot of bandwidth.QuoteThe old 4-bay Tektronix 7000 series mainframe oscilloscopes have a mode where the vertical and horizontal bays are paired up to operate as two separate but complete oscilloscopes with the same CRT, so two completely independent XY displays could be shown. Horizontal bandwidth is still low as described above (1), unless 7S11 sampling plug-ins are used in which case the X and Y bandwidth would extend to 100s of MHz or even to GHz.(1) The 7104 has a 350 MHz horizontal bandwidth but is not really suited for your application.

author: ADT123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 05:47:08 am
content: PicoScope showing 4 x XY plots. As XY is best done with a 1:1 aspect ratio you can either select this as a software option which puts some padding either side of the waveform to ensure 1:1 or you can manually do this by changing the size of the overall window as done here.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 05:55:21 am
content: Quote from: ADT123 on March 28, 2023, 05:47:08 amThis is exactly what I am doing right now.