Brymen 869s arrived defective? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 06:38:35 pm
content: Hi, I recently purchased a brymen 869s multimeter from TME, and it arrived today, so I started testing its functions, and I believe I have found a problem with my multimeter ma/ua port.It seems that anything involving the ma/ua port doesn't work, when I'm in the volts range (not doing any measurement) with 1 probe connect in the COM, and 1 in the A range, the multimeter starts giving a warning sound as expected, however when I do the same with the ma/ua port it doesn't start beeping, nor does it display any error on the screen, I have seen at least one review where it seems like this should happen even in the ma/ua port.That problem however is not the only one and not the most significant, when I connect the temperature probe to the T1 (probe connected to COM and Resistor/Voltage/Capacitance port) it shows the temperature, however when I connect the probe to T2 (Amps and ma/ua port) it doesn't give any reading, despite me changing the select to show T2.Finally when I put 1 probe in the COM and one in the Amps I can measure current just fine, I tested this on an arduino which has a current draw of around 50ma, however if I connect the Amp probe into the ma/ua port there is no current reading, more than that, there is no current passing to the circuit since the arduino doesn't even turn on. I have also tried this connection with a cheap multimeter (just connected the probes of the brymen on the other multimeter) and that multimeter was measuring in the ma range just fine.So it seems to me that either the ma/ua port isn't giving a connection, or something is defective inside the multimeter (would a broken/blown fuse do that?). Is there something that I'm missing here in the multimeter, or is it defective?I can't open the multimeter since that would void the warranty, also can't check the fuses since they can only be accessed by opening the multimeter (which would void the warranty), is there anything else that I can try?Also took some pictures of the multimeter ports, and was wondering if this loos normalhttp://imgur.com/Lir1uNP,HjZr7tf,7dMwr9R,pgTb9dothe rubber doesn't look very good, almost as if it's old or has seen heavy use, which is strange considering that the rest of the multimeter is of pretty high quality, but obviously no idea how they usually look.Thank you.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 06:48:40 pm
content: The lack of of mA/uA measurement sounds like the fuse is blown. Checking the fuse should not void the warranty. Have you checked for continuity between the mA/uA port and COM port?You're right that your V/Ohm socket looks beat up. If you didn't do this then it looks like you got a previously used meter.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:00:58 pm
content: I also think that checking the fuse shouldn't void the warranty, however since the multimeter comes with a seal that would be broken if opened, I prefer not to risk it, especially since the multimeter literally arrived today so is very much within warranty.I have checked continuity between the ma/ua and com and got no continuity, also checked continuity between the amp and com port and got continuity there, however didn't get continuity between the com and resistance/voltage/capacitance port, not sure if this is normal or not since I have never done it before, and my cheap multimeter has the ma in the voltage port so couldn't confirm that.From what I recall the sockets already looked like this, since it was something that I noticed right away, also only had the multimeter for a couple of hours, so doubt it was me, but since I didn't take photos at the start, and don't know how fast these get damaged, have no idea to 100% confirm that.Anyway that being said, thanks for confirming that it might be a blown fuse, since never had one and wasn't 100% sure what the behavior would be.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:01:50 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 17, 2014, 06:48:40 pmThe above works for some meters, but not all. For example, on the Fluke 80 series, measuring the resistance between the mA/uA and COM port will show 1k ohm for a working fuse. So continuity will not beep.On my working mA/uA Greenlee DM-200A (aka Brymen BM25x), I get around 1M ohm resistance reading between the mA/uA (left hand side of the split input jack) and COM port. If I touch the right hand side of the split input jack, I correctly get InEr.QuoteI agree the input plastic jacks look abnormal.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on July 17, 2014, 07:01:50 pmGood point. I should have been more clear - measuring the resistance is a better test.Given the input jack damage. I would send it back to TME and ask for a new one!

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:11:34 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 17, 2014, 07:06:32 pmIt will be interesting to see what shipping costs are involved in sending it back to TME since the OP doesn't have the country flag set. This is one caveat I pointed out in the Where to buy Greenlee thread ...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/usa-how-to-purchase-brymen-dmm-(greenlee-brand-or-other)/

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:17:04 pm
content: The seal on the multimeter is not a legal binding thing as far as I understand. It is just TME's way of trying to prevent idiots from playing inside with things not to be touched. The multimeter is meant to be opened during its normal intended use, to change fuses. It is described in the instruction manual in fact. Given this, it is illegal for TME to refuse warranty if you open the meter. At least that is my understanding of the warranty laws for the EU. In other words they can't deny you an advertised function and use of a product in order to maintain a warranty. They also did not inform you before the purchase and it arrived with this sticker on it without your consent or knowledge.But, if you can wait for another to arrive then send it back to TME and demand a new one as this arrived non-functioning from the box. Or you can ask them to send you a new fuse for free if it is just the fuse and you feel like opening it up.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 07:42:39 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 17, 2014, 07:06:32 pmRe tested it using resistance and got a resistance value of 10 ohm (just for reference since multimeter used is trash) between the com and the amp, and no signal at all in any of the other ports (com with ma/ua and com with voltage).Quote from: retiredcaps on July 17, 2014, 07:11:34 pmAs for returning it, could have sworn had I selected my country, anyway that's fixed now, I'm from Portugal, so it shouldn't be a problem, since we are both EU countries, and it took the package just 1 day to arrive here (by UPS). BTW does anyone know if TME returns the money (or covers) the costs of sending the item back? Since paying for something that arrived possibly second hand and definitely not working properly, doesn't sit very well with me. Not that I expect the costs to be very high, but still.Quote from: Lightages on July 17, 2014, 07:17:04 pmIf nothing else I expect that brymen wouldn't be ok with that, since there is a reason why fuses aren't soldered into place (besides bad design), however given possible complications, and more importantly that apparently this isn't how the jacks normally look, I prefer to wait 1 or 2 weeks (still have 1 multimeter even if not a good one) to hopefully get a new one that is working, but yeah in any other circumstance I would just open the case and replace it, since it would be much faster and honestly far simpler.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 11:07:58 pm
content: Contact TME, explaining the problem with videos and pictures. Don't break the seal. Insist that they should send you a new unit. If they want the defective one back, they should bear the cost of postage.Don't forget to reference this thread, pointing out that potential customers are watching carefully how TME handles this case.If TME establishes that the only issue is a blown fuse (not covered by warranty), it could be difficult to convince the company that you didn't rupture it yourself, while testing the meter.They should be able to determine from their database though, whether this unit was a previous customer return, with some undetected faults.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 01:01:07 am
content: Did you check the uA/mA range resistance with the meter in uA or mA? I think it was the Aglient I had that showed open circuit in mA range when I did the resistance test. When I selected mA it then had continuity. Also, I think the Brymen meters should give you the wrong plug warning in both the A and mA jacks if you are in say voltage range. The Agilent didn't actually give you a warning when you were in mA, just the A range.I'll check my little Bryman meter (Greenlee 200a / Brymen TBM 250 series) and let you know how it reacts.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 03:19:41 am
content: BTW my brimen says 869s and the manual also says 869s, does anyone know if there is any difference between the 869 and the 869s? Because the specs and functionality seem to be the same (as far as I can tell).Quote from: Wytnucls on July 17, 2014, 11:07:58 pmAlready did, although didn't link any pictures yet, since their initial contact form is not only hard to findhttps://www.tme.eu/en/complaintbut also very limited, but I did link them to the forum post, and will certainly be sending them pictures after the initial contact.While blown fuses are not covered by normal warranty I do believe they are legally obligated to take the multimeter back, as long as the item is returned in the first I believe 14 days (or something like that), at least that's how it works in my country, and I believe that's not a law from my country but a EU law, so it shouldn't be a problem there, some people even exploit that law to try certain electronic products, or even use them for a few days and then return them, which means you sometimes get products which were already opened/used.Then again can be wrong not a lawyer and don't expect much in the way of trouble here, I have bought enough online items to have this happen to me once or twice before (items that are dead on arrival), and never had a bad experience, sellers usually seem interested in solving the problem, so hopefully their customer service is as good as their efficiency in normal sales (got the item in less than 24 hours after ordering it).As for them thinking that I blew the fuse, from my experience that's not relevant (in my country anyway), I have had one case of getting items that stopped working in a couple of days, went to trade them for good ones, and got yet another defective one ("first generation" of computer SSD's were amazingly reliable), and they still had to trade it, and I know if I was them I would also think that I was somehow managing to connect an SSD wrong (which would be tricky without breaking anything).Also got to say the idea of someone managing to blow a fuse of a multimeter that is built like a tank with nothing more than 7.5v and a current draw of 50ma is hilarious, especially when the same circuit works in a multimeter so cheap that the price of postage is a bit more than the actual multimeter cost.Actually thinking on it, is there even a way to blow a fuse with those things, maybe by shorting the battery?Anyway will keep updating this topic with info on how it goes, until the issue is resolve, to give people some idea of what to expect from TME on future deals. Hoping to get some answer in the next 24 hours.Quote from: Robomeds on July 18, 2014, 01:01:07 amHad tried that when I did the continuity test, but forgot to try it when doing the resistance test, that being said just tried that and still no signal what so ever, but thanks for the suggestion.The eevblog brymen quick look up didn't show the test on the ma to see if it beeped, but saw another review which did try that and it definitely gave error signal like in the amp jack, also both the ma/ua and the amp port have a symbol that says jack with the continuity buzzer symbol above it, which I assume is suppose to signify that they are both suppose to give sound when the dial is in the wrong place.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 04:00:35 am
content: OK, just did a quick test with my meter. Not the same model as yours but still a recent Brymen. With the mA fuse in place I get continuity (100ohm or so, checked with a second meter) only when the meter is in the mA range. However, I get the warning at all times save for in the amp ranges. When I pull the fuse the warning goes away. With my meter you get to the fuses through the battery cover but that doesn't mean the same is true for yours. Regardless it sound like you have a blown fuse.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 04:07:43 am
content: Unfortunately it's not the same in mine, the only thing you can get to without opening the case is to the 9v battery.

author: jay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 05:52:07 am
content: Quote from: Micael on July 17, 2014, 07:42:39 pmTME has this dumb policy that buyer pays cost of return shipment even if it's returned due to being defective. It's quite common in B2B trade but not in consumer trade (except all those EBay sellers). I don't think this practice is even legal in consumer trade inside EU (note that if it's not found to be defective then the customer is responsible for the cost but don't quote me on this). I wouldn't order from there if I wasn't in EU. I once received a defective product from TME. It took weeks to even get a reply from them. They eventually handled the case fine but after the incident I've been willing to pay a bit higher price to another shop that has good service when things go wrong.Off topic: TME often ships sensitive components in normal plastic bags. Sometimes they've put components like pots in static dissipative bags and small FETs in normal plastic bags. They never use those shiny ESD safe bags, only pink static dissipative. It seems they should inform their employees of ESD safety.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 06:27:26 am
content: I actually saw that in the warranty conditions paper that they sent with the multimeter, but considering that the first line on that paper says it only has 12 month warranty I just take the paper as wishful thinking on their part. Hopefully they don't take several weeks as was your experience, but if they do not super worried about it, will just keep using the multimeter since everything seems to be working fine with the exception of the ma measurement mode and I have a device for that, but it will definitely affect future purchases from me.As for ESD yeah not sure what's up with that, most of the stuff in my order came in the pink bags, then for some reason jumper cables came in esd safe bags, but maybe it wasn't them that bagged those.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 07:03:38 am
content: Quote from: Micael on July 18, 2014, 03:19:41 amAs far as I know the "s" versions are built with better compliance to the latest CAT rating standards, i.e. fuses rated to higher voltages. Everything else seems to be identical.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 09:05:21 am
content: The fuse ratings were correct already (1000V). I suspect the innards are exactly the same, although some creepage and clearances may have been revised.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 10:00:10 am
content: BTW does anyone know what is suppose to come with the multimeter in what concerns leads, I saw 2 images of the leads that I havehttp://www.118volt.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Brymen_BM10A.jpghttp://static4.tme.eu/katalog_pics/c/f/d/cfd0cb614ed0959738a2dc94e25d46d3/pp-bm10a%20.jpgand they both show those 2 gold plated banana plugs, however my multimeter only came with the leads, the 1kV CAT-IV cover, and the k type temperature sensor.Even tme has that imagehttp://www.tme.eu/pt/details/pp-bm10a/condutores-de-provas-_-conjuntos/brymen/pp-bm-10a/#in fact the review made by Kiriakos-GR also has those plugs, does anyone know if they are suppose to come with the multimeter or did they change that?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 10:13:12 am
content: If you were referring to the lantern spring attachments then the answer is no, they do not come with the meter. There are also variations in the leads you get with Brymen's meters. Some come with non gold plated non-silicone leads, some come with gold plated (with no screw threading) and non-silicone leads, and some with gold plated and silicone leads.I do carry the lantern springs as an individual item in my eBay store in case you want them in the future.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 10:28:37 am
content: Thanks for the answer, and yeah after taking a closer look at the photos they are different from mine, while mine are gold plated silicon leads they don't have the screw threading on them.

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 12:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: Micael on July 18, 2014, 10:28:37 amI suspect yours are actually not silicone. I have those too (without threading) and they feel very supple but there's still a difference between them and the silicone ones if you have both in your hands.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 02:36:21 pm
content: Just got an answer from TME, and they booked a pick-up of the package this monday (21/07/2014) through DHL Economy Select, they didn't ask for any further information, merely sent the information that I needed to prepare the package for the pick up. In short so far so good, but will keep updating this topic as the situation updates.Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 18, 2014, 12:32:18 pmHmm I see, could have fooled me, they have a very nice feel to them, but OFC no way for me to know for sure without ordering ones, which will probably only do if I end up breaking mine, but who knows curiosity might get the better of me and I end up ordering ones anyway since their price is pretty good IMO. May I ask what part of them are different, is it the actual leads (the part you grab with your hands), is it the cable or is it both?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2014, 03:26:27 am
content: Quote from: Micael on July 18, 2014, 02:36:21 pmThe cable part feels different. The silicone ones feel even more flexible and straighten up more automatically.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 09:53:20 am
content: So DHL showed up Monday to pick up the package, there was a few problems like them not calling as they were suppose to, but that's DHL fault not TME, at this point the package is on the way to them, so will report when I get any new info from TME.Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 19, 2014, 03:26:27 amThanks for the info.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2014, 03:01:01 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on July 18, 2014, 01:01:07 amI did some test with my BM857 (similar to yours):With the DMM turned off, I get 0? on the A jack but infinite on the mA/uA jack.Turning it on, I still get 0? on the A jack but now I get 2,05? on the mA/uA jack when the rotary switch is on A/mA position, and 102? when the rotary switch is on the uA position.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2014, 07:07:32 am
content: So it seems that they are indeed a bit slow when it comes to solving this sort of problems, getting the multimeter to them was easy and fast, however the multimeter arrived there on July 25 and I have yet to receive any response from them on the subject, considering this isn't a warranty situation I find this sort of time-frame to handle this type of problems to be a bit too much.Will post here again if I receive any updates on the situation.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2014, 07:48:40 am
content: Yes, that was my experience with TME. Fast to sell, slow to help. I think I will go back to recommending to sty away from them. Franky is much better even if he might cost a little bit more for some things.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2014, 03:57:24 pm
content: So got an email today about the RMA, and it seems they are shipping it back today by UPS, so basically it took them 2 weeks from receiving it to send it back.It also seems that they sent it for warranty since the pdf they sent (by email) has this:Complaint process resultsComplaint status: Complaint processed successfulyComplaint solution Goods shipment, Warranty repairGrammatical errors aside, given that the product was returned in the first few days (the complaint was filled in less than 24 hours really), I have to question the legality of sending a product for warranty and having your customer waiting for it to come back.I have never had this happen to me either in my country or in the EU, from my experience stores just verify that the item has indeed arrived, and then give you a new one or they issue a refund.On the bright side if the BM869 went for warranty repair then brymen works pretty well.Will post back when I get an update, although I suspect it will take almost a week to get here, since they sent it by UPS standard instead of the express saver which is from my experience what they usually use to send packages that arrive the next work day.Quote from: Lightages on August 07, 2014, 07:48:40 amFor multimeters and leads and that sort of stuff I would have to agree, not so much because one is slow and the other is fast or what ever, but generally you want to order from people that are specialized and know their stuff, which from what I can tell seems to very much the case with franky (never ordered anything from him... Yet) and OFC not the case with TME since it's a generalized electronics store, with thousands of products.That being said if you are for example a business inside the EU, buying from TME has it's advantages, since they are from the EU the vat is deducted right away, you have no possibility of it being stopped in customs which OFC means you get things much faster (1/2 working day, vs from my limited experience with hong kong 15 days at the very best case scenario), and with the disadvantage of them not being a specialized, comes the advantage of them not being specialized, which means you can order hundreds of dust masks while at the same time ordering some IR leds and other electronic stuff.

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2014, 07:24:15 pm
content: The multimeter arrived Thursday, and it is now working as expected, I am now able to get measurements in both A and mA, and when I change the dial to go outside the current measurement with the probe still in the mA socket, the multimeter starts beeping (and giving an error on the display), just as it was with the A plug (and still is OFC).I had taken a few pictures of the stickers and so on before and they are all in the exact same place, there was even a bit of dirtiness close to one of the stickers, and it's still there. The only thing that changed was the seal that breaks if opened, which is not in the same place. So it would appear that they indeed sent the unit to be repaired, and waited for it to get fixed, instead of sending a new one.All in all can't say I much liked the way they handled this, since it took about 4 weeks to get the unit back in my hands.They responded quickly to the RMA request (a couple of hours), and they set the collection quick enough (the next working day after acknowledging the RMA), however the service they used takes a week to take it to their installations, then they took 2 weeks to get the unit fixed, and then they sent it by normal UPS which took yet another week to be delivered.If this was a normal warranty case, I would have considered the 4 weeks to be somewhat normal, especially considering that 2 weeks is spent in the transportation between me and the shop, however for this case which was an item that was DOA (well not dead dead), I am used to have the unit just being replaced by a new one, which means it usually takes at most 2 weeks, not 4.Quote from: iloveelectronics on July 18, 2014, 12:32:18 pmSo had to order ones with the threading the other day, since one of the cables from my cheap multimeter just simply broke, and you were exactly right there is a difference between the ones without threading and the threaded ones, while I don't notice any difference on the handle of each one, the actual cable is very different, in that the threaded one is in fact made of silicone and much nicer than the normal ones.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 02:31:44 am
content: Quote from: Micael on July 17, 2014, 06:38:35 pmQuote from: Micael on August 16, 2014, 07:24:15 pmMicael,Do you think that TME sold you a previously used DMM?I bought a Brymen MB319 from TME several months ago, and except from the fact that TME had opened the box to stick their labels on the DMM (which also required them to remove the rubber boot); my BM319 was pristine.Martin

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2014, 03:31:22 am
content: I don't know, I found the plastic on the ports to be a bit weird, but after making that post I saw a few pictures of other brymen multimeters, and it gave me the idea that the ports normally look like that, and honestly if the multimeter had arrived in working order I wouldn't have even given it a second thought. If we exclude the port thing (which might be normal), and the fuse being broken, the multimeter was in perfect visual and mechanical condition, there were no scratches or anything like that.That being said I wouldn't have found it weird if it was a unit that had been returned to them, they got it, did some basic testing and found it functional (only the mA port was not functional), repackaged it and sold it again, I know this tends to happen (not talking about TME, but about stores in my country).To clarify the multimeter being a bit dirty on one of the stickers might have been caused by me, I only took photos before sending it, and this was after several hours of handling it myself, so chances are that it was caused by me, not them. Was merely mentioning it to make a point that they probably sent the multimeter to warranty, instead of just sending a new one to replace the non functional unit they sent me, which would have been far quicker, and more inline with what I'm used too from sellers.

author: unbiased
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 03:26:25 am
content: Quote from: Micael on August 18, 2014, 03:31:22 amHi, I just found and read through this thread and sorry to see that you had such a bad experience with your BM869S from TME. I too just received my BM869S from TME today and just check my probe input ports. If it makes you feel any better, the volts jack port on my new meter also seems to have a ragged worn around the edges look to it but not as ragged looking as yours. All the jack ports on mine don't look smooth, so I think that's just the way they are. Your meter looks to just have had a blown mA/uA fuse. They probably just replaced the fuse and sent it back to you. You could have just done that yourself and saved all that hassle and time but I understand being concerned about that stupid TME sealed sticker tag that they stick on there to make sure you void your warranty if you opened it yourself. sigh! Bad on them!

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 09:26:45 am
content: I think the jack ports get a little knock or two when being inserted into the upper case.Piece work assembly driven, and the marks seem to match the circumference.Not big deal to me.The warranty sticker is a pain indeed, will break that when I have had time to fully test the meter.(My info debt is very high here, so I had better get some internal pics up soon! :p)As Lightages said, the validity of that sticker in UK has to be zero, but TME do havesomereports of being a little "lax" in communication. So I would just hedge my bets as I said.They are really built well for the money, am very happy with mine so far and feel I dodged more than one bullet looking at the other manufacturers products(again a doff of the cap to EEVBlog fora for great help with my kit this last year (and putting up with my ramblings)!!)

author: Micael
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2014, 11:10:09 am
content: Yeah and if you look at some more photos, you will find that it is as far as I can tell a common "problem" in all of them, so most likely it's as you say due to the way they are manufactured/assembled.I know that the seal has absolutely zero legal value, I doubt even brymen agrees with the seal, but it goes without saying I was never going to sue TME if they refused to repair/replace it, and you know while not a major expense it's still a fuse that costs a few €, on a product that you bought new from a store, if they had made me replace the fuse myself (without them paying for it), it would have been a surefire way for me to not buy anything from them ever again.Also I was expecting for them to handle it far better than they did, literally all my experiences with defective products in the first 14 days has been that they get replaced by a new one, to put things in perspective a few weeks before I had ordered some crappy cheap chinese cameras that were sent through Germany, to do some testing on them, one of them arrived broken (a cheap chinese product that doesn't work, shocker I know), I sent the camera to them, and a little more than a week after, I had a new one back. This for me is how these things always work (or used to always work), and it's a shame to see TME not be the same way, since if I ever need an equipment in a rush (not the case with this one) I know I won't be able to buy it there, because I would be waiting far too much time for the problem to get fixed.Yeah the multimeter is really good, granted can't really compare it first hand to others, but from all I saw and have experienced so far, in what concerns higher end multimeters it seems to be really good value for money, especially when you look at the big name brands like agilent and fluke, where for this kind of money you're not getting anywhere near this great a multimeter, I mean if we compare brymen 867 to something like an agilent U1232A, or a fluke-114, the brymen is a vastly better multimeter, and it certainly doesn't seem to be worse built than the top brands.