New Rigol DS2000-S series with built-in dual-channel 25-MHz AWG - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 09:48:18 pm
content: We discovered this over in theRigol DS2000 review thread- but I thought it warranted a new thread. New S versions of the DS2000 series are coming out, with built-in dual-channel 25-MHz AWGDS2000-(S)ourceHere are translated specs fromthis document:Number of Channels 2Sampling rate 200MSa / sVertical resolution of 14bitsMaximum frequency of 25MHzStandard waveforms sine, square wave, pulse, triangle wave, noise, DCArbitrary Waveform Sinc, the index rose, the index fell, ECG, Gauss, haversineThe sinusoidal frequency range from 0.1Hz to 25MHzFlatness of ± 0.5dB (relative 1kHz)Harmonic distortion of-40dBcSpurious (non-harmonic)-40dBc1% total harmonic distortionSignal-to-noise ratio 40dB (TBD)Square / pulse frequency range of 0.1Hz to 15MHzRise and fall time <15nsOvershoot <5%Duty cycle of 10-90%Duty cycle resolution of 1% or 10ns (whichever is the greater value)The minimum pulse width of 20nsPulse width resolution of 10ns or 5 (whichever is the larger value)Jitter 500psTriangle wave frequency range of 0.1Hz to 100kHzLinearity 1%Symmetry 0-100%Noise bandwidth of 25MHz (typ)Arbitrary wave frequency range of 0.1Hz to 10MHzWaveform length 2 ~ 16k pointsInternal storage of 4Frequency accuracy of 100ppm (less than 10kHz) 50ppm (greater than 10kHz)Resolution of 0.1Hz or 4, whichever is greaterThe amplitude output range 20mVpp ~ 5Vpp, high impedance 10mVpp ~ 2.5Vpp, 50ohmThe resolution 100uV or 3, whichever is the greater valueAccuracy of 2% (1kHz)DC offset range ± 2.5V, high impedance ± 1.25V, 50ohmThe resolution 100uV or 3, whichever is the greater valueAccuracy of 2% (1kHz)

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 09:54:07 pm
content: The latest DS2000 firmware includes support for the S series:Version: 00.01.00.00.03 Date: 2013-4-1E: Enhancements / M: Modification1. Added SCPI command for decoding data E2. Fixed the cursor window error when change cursor mode(201303000020) M3. Added option for power analysis (PC software) E4. Fixed screen saver error when the scope have a trial license M5. Fixed Anti-Aliasing error when reboot the unit M6. Optimized the sampling rate in AC or Ext trigger E7. Fixed “open record” error M8. Optimized the trace display in normal trigger mode when change the horizontal or vertical setting E9. Optimized the speed of PNG file storage E10. Fixed the data error of .csv file M11. Increased the sampling rate in ROLL mode E12. Switched the position of channel in XY mode M13. Optimized the compatibility for updated flash chip and writing/reading speed E14. Changed the RUNT as standard trigger M15. Support DS2000-S series E

author: nack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 10:27:03 pm
content: Any thoughts on what physical (dual) output they will use? Two new dedicated BNC connectors on the front/rear panel?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:07:39 pm
content: English specs on page 11, 12:http://www.tequipment.net/ProductImages/Rigol/DP831A/media/DP831A_doc_2.pdfSome screenshots from taobao:http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.105.QP7Yqx&id=23281788944http://www.rigol.com/upload/12-10/17/DS2000-S-1.jpghttp://www.rigol.com/upload/12-10/17/DS2000-S-2.jpgPrice is ~$1,100 for DS2072-S

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:22:48 pm
content: Looks great. I hope there will be no bugs.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:25:53 pm
content: Quote from: nack on April 16, 2013, 10:27:03 pmThe photo shows two new BNC connectors on the rear:

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 16, 2013, 11:07:39 pmNice! I like the integration into the screen design.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on April 16, 2013, 11:25:53 pmVery inconvenient!But not a show stopper.Agilent started an awesome trend here.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:31:36 pm
content: It's got full ARB capability, but will that be usable? i.e. using a waveform capture or download?They are most likely sharing technology from their DG2000/4000 function gens.They won't want to step on the toes of those products too much though.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 16, 2013, 11:31:36 pmI'm curious how it will work. The docs mention internal storage capability of 4 waveforms.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:37:48 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 16, 2013, 11:29:16 pmYes, I hate back BNC connectors... but I guess they're saving that knockout in the front for an MSO module some day.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2013, 11:53:47 pm
content: Rigol is really raising the bar. Now they just need people's confidence to compete with the bigger manufacturers. Some people around here still hate their support depertment. I fear for Tektronix's long-term future. (Will they be here in 20 years?)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:00:27 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on April 16, 2013, 11:53:47 pmUnfortunately, Tek are almost insignificant in the low and mid range scope market now, and this just pushes them further down the ladder.And rumour has it they have nothing on the cards to compete with.I hope that's not the case.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:03:49 am
content: I don't see any references in the Rigol Chinese or Tequipment docs to this enhancement in the DS2000 firmware:3. Added option for power analysis (PC software) E

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:06:45 am
content: Quote from: marmad on April 17, 2013, 12:03:49 amIt really is a classic tit-for-tat between Agilent and Rigol.Clearly going to be a copy of Agilent's excellent PSU analysis module.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:12:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 17, 2013, 12:06:45 amFunny!And I mentioned in another thread that it seems as though this change in the latest firmware:14. Changed the RUNT to standard trigger Mseems like a direct response to the GW-Instek GDS-2000A (which includes the RUNT trigger as standard).

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:22:45 am
content: I have noticed Rigol started copying certain aspects from different manufacturers. For example, the DS1052E's front panel looks like Tek's low-end offerings but the location of the buttons and knobs resemble Agilent's. Now they are trying to design their signature front panels. They use a lot of diagonal lines and an aggressive style. But they failed at that with their line of programmable power supplies.Agilent has created their own rival pretty much in the same way Apple gave Microsoft a place.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:33:26 am
content: Quote from: marmad on April 17, 2013, 12:03:49 amNice I hadn't seen that feature. If it works as well as the other brands, I'll be using it a lot.So with this AWG, at ~$1100 it's about $250ish more than the normal model. On paper it seems to out perform their base model DG1022 20MHz dual channel AWG in every way, and for around $100 less. I'm guessing there's no input for modulation, and at first glance there doesn't seem to be a sync output? Albeit most of the time you're syncing with the scope anyway which I'm sure you could do internal.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:35:39 am
content: Dave, do you think you will be able to get a hold of one of these? I'm sure we all want to see it compared to the Agilent 2000 X series AWG and see how did Rigol integrate the AWG in the GUI.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:36:19 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on April 17, 2013, 12:22:45 amYes, the DS2/4/6XXX, DG4XXX, and DSA8XX series all look like they came from the same industrial designers - but the DP1XXX series doesn't.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:42:36 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on April 17, 2013, 12:35:39 amAgilent 2000 X has no arbitrary generatornow.Rigol's generator is overall better.But in Agilent 2000 X there are many hidden features that may be enabled by new firmware, if Agilent guys decide so.QuoteI am not afraid. But they will have to come up with some new very upgraded version of DPO2000.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 12:48:59 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 17, 2013, 12:42:36 amNo idea.I could ask.Hassle @RigolTechUSA till he sends me one (and one for Marmad while we are at it!)I'm sure I could eventually get a loaner from John South at Emona.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:09:30 am
content: Perhaps this was mentioned in another thread somewhere - but I couldn't find it in a search. And it may be tangentially related to this same topic (connected to more UltraVision 'add-ons' that have yet to be unveiled), but while searching around online I noticed that there appears to be a concerted push to sell off Rigol's older MSOs. Both Batronix in the EU and Tequipment in NA have clearance prices listed.

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:25:57 am
content: I'm desperately trying to get Instek to provide a demo unit to Dave for review. It makes me sad now that everyone talks only about Agilent and Rigol -- because Dave hasn't done a review on Instek yet! Ah well, I hope to get that changed soon.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:53:15 am
content: Quote from: grego on April 17, 2013, 01:25:57 amGreg, you seem like an objective, intelligent, and articulate guy - you could just do a review yourself as well. There wasn't any info available online about Owon's SDS line when I made my SDS7102 review (and thread here) 18 months ago, and even though I didn't end up keeping it myself, the review triggered a wave of sales and new owners of the DSO - who've since enlarged that thread into the 4th biggest one here. So it doesn't have to be Dave who gets people talking about GW-Instek

author: grego
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 02:45:55 am
content: Quote from: marmad on April 17, 2013, 01:53:15 amAgreed, and I probably will do something with it in the near future - but I won't have the same cachet/weight that Mr. Dave is going to have.Either way I'll get around to it as soon as I can figure out some way to get some decent footage down here in ye oldebasementlab.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 03:49:05 am
content: Tek is dead man walking...

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 07:25:56 am
content: The jitter seems small.Quote from: marmad on April 16, 2013, 11:37:48 pmThey already have announced the MSO (with blurry picture) although it will only be on the 4000 series.(probably doesn't fit in the price range of the 2000 series)Edit: Wondering that the DG4000 didn't get an firmware update because this team was busy with this AWG.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 04:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: Hypernova on April 17, 2013, 03:49:05 amTheir scopes are good, but too expensive for hobbyists. You may buy one if you want long memory, not very fast update rate and you have many $$$. Might be okay for single-shot use.And they should update their 2008's DPO2000.It's crazy to have a 480×240 pixels screen in such an expensive scope.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 05:10:04 pm
content: Quote from: KedasProbe on April 17, 2013, 07:25:56 amI think Drieg told me that they're planning on an LA module for the DS2000 series as well, but perhaps they have a specific staggered release plan in mind (e.g. first LA on DS4000 and AWG on DS2000, then later the opposite?).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 06:25:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 17, 2013, 12:00:27 amEven worse, their high end offerings don't look much better in comparison with Agilent or LeCroy. Tek can't even compete with them in terms of pricing.These days I can't really think of many reasons why I would buy a Tek scope.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 06:58:21 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 17, 2013, 06:25:15 pmHaving grown up across the street from Tek's headquarters (Beaverton, Oregon), and seeing what it's like now... I am not sure I see Tek surviving. Hell, they're already a small shadow of what they once were. I guess I'm glad they're back focusing on what they did originally. Though the phaser printers are/were awesome, it's probably better handled by Xerox. But yeah, when Tek's cheapest scope is $1400, from what I can tell, it's just the Rigol 2072 that's $600 more. =/ Kind of sad... but I'm guessing the test equipment market is experiencing what the car makers experienced when Japan got in the game. Sure, you could buy a big America car, but why when you could buy a cheaper, more efficient, "better made" Japanese car?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 08:14:35 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on April 17, 2013, 06:25:15 pmMaybe because you needed the Wave Inspector feature? It is really nice. I tried it on DPO2000, but other specifications of the scope were not so good so I didn't buy it. The scope even has no Trig Out and the screen is really poor. But it's no problem when using mainly for hunting digital signals.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 05:32:22 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 17, 2013, 08:14:35 pmI had a read about Wave Inspector in Tek's documents and quite frankly it doesn't seem to offer anything that wasn't available in other scopes already almost 10 years ago. Direct zoom controls and waveform playback are even in my 13 year old LeCroy Waverunner (it's called 'Wave Pilot' there), and the capability to search memory for certain signal properties or specific sequences in decoded data has also been available for many years. However, I don't know about entry level scopes and it may well be that this is unique there but (not having checked) I wouldn't be surprised if similar functionality is available in Agilent's DSO-X.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:46:20 am
content: Using SCPI commands, I was able to play around with the features of the DS2000-S waveform generator 'inside' of the new firmware on the DS2000: setting the frequencies, voltage levels, phase, etc. of the two source channels. I also located (but haven't tested yet) the command to download waveforms to the AWG.Of course, without any external outputs on my model (and not having it open), it was impossible to know if anything other than variable settings inside memory were being affected (probably not of course). I haven't been able to make the DSO show anything (including the new menus or screen icons associated with the AWG - as shown in the image), so I'm wondering if those things are tied to having the model number with the "-S" in non-volatile memory (just like the bandwidth, 2ns timebase, and 100MHz filter seem to be tied to the model number inside the DS2XXX).

author: Wim13
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:00:44 am
content: Are that the same ommands as they use for the DG4000 series...

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 11:11:33 am
content: Quote from: Wim13 on April 18, 2013, 11:00:44 amSome of them - and I think some are from DG2000 series.

author: dougbert
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2013, 07:52:15 pm
content: Is it known if the signal generator feature does modulation or sweeps?I bought a DS2000 scope a few months ago, but I don't have any buyer's remorse, since I also got a DG4102 generator, which has lots of features...

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2013, 08:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: dougbert on April 27, 2013, 07:52:15 pmAlthough nothing definitive, here are the external commands that have been added to the DS2000 firmware for the AWG. It seems like it does modulation - but not sweeping. As Dave mentioned before, they probably don't want to step on the toes of their other products too muchDACCONTrolFIXedFIXed?PHASePHASe?ADJustADJust?STATeSTATe?VOLTageVOLTage?IMMediateIMMediate?AMPLitudeAMPLitude?DCYCleDCYCle?AMAM?DEPThDEPTh?INTernalFMFM?DEVIationDEVIation?NOISeSINusoidSQUareUSERAPPLy?OUTPut1OUTPut1?OUTPut2OUTPut2?DAC16INTerpolateINTerpolate?VALueLOAD?DCDC?AMPAMP?SVCTxoSVCTVCTXoVCTXo?LOADdataSAVEdata

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2013, 02:19:21 am
content: Quote from: staze on April 17, 2013, 06:58:21 pm- A couple problems faced by more than one company: 1) perhaps not seeing where the market is going (not sufficently anticipating changes in technology and customer requirements/opportunities), 2) not staying competitive with costs. If you miss the revenue line and the cost line it's tough to compete.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2013, 10:44:16 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on April 28, 2013, 02:19:21 amI think in case of Tek it's a case of #1 combined with:3) Being taken over by DanaherDanaher is well known for their management concept which fosters micro-management and money pinching, and drowns creativity. Tek has apparently lost a lot of their best people, and I wouldn't be too surprised when a few of them are now helping out certain Chinese T&M manufacturers.LeCroy had the same problem, but they were more lucky because they were bought by Teledyne, which seems to give them much more leeway and room to develop than Danaher does for Tek.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2013, 12:32:00 pm
content: LeCroy is bad at cheaper scopes. The WaveAce is rebadged crappy Siglent and Wavejet is rebranded Iwatsu... The Iwatsu manufacturing quality is OK, but it is too expensive and old! It's probably designed in 2006.http://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/oscilloscopeseries.aspx?mseries=50

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2013, 05:34:35 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on April 28, 2013, 12:32:00 pmI have the WaveJet, and yes you're right it was designed in 2006 (probably 2005 in fact). Mine was built in late 2006 (it was "old stock"). If you pay new prices it is over-priced but I think even new ones can be had for 55% off (that is what a LeCroy salesmen told me but I'd already got mine). I only paid £1200+VAT for a 350MHz 4 channel WaveJet with 4 500MHz probes so this was cheap enough for me to accept the old technology. (In fact, as the list price for the 500MHz probes comes to around £1200 I could argue I got the scope for free!)I'm very pleased with it. The main drawback is the noisy fan. When my warranty runs out I'll might change the fan. The build quality is very good, the calibration seems spot on (it was calibrated in 2006!). The sampling rate is fine (2GS/s on 2 channels or 1GS/s on 4 channels). The memory is ok (500k per channel) and I find it easy to use. It turns on almost instantly unlike other scopes and it has a nice VGA display. The timebase accuracy is better than most other lower price scopes. It is also small and portable. The main features that are missing compared with more modern designs are decoding options, high wfs per sec (3,600 instead of 50,000+), and it doesn't have trig out but none of these I miss. It is perhaps a little slow in writing to usb or at least in setting up when you plug a usb stick in. Annoyingly for me my model has a non-functioning rear USB port but the 300A series can be controlled from this port.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2013, 01:24:09 am
content: Any news about DS2000-S? Well, their function generator is better than DSOX2000 Wavegen...But when is it coming to market??

author: rkupka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 01:08:52 pm
content: I´ve just got info from our local RIGOL reseller that -S range won´t be comming to retail before Q4/2013.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 02:36:44 pm
content: So we have to wait till september 2013?

author: Jonas
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 03:01:27 pm
content: Yeah that sounds right. My local dealers said the release in China is imminent and the world wide release will be 3 months after that.

author: zlabsoft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 04:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: Jonas on May 22, 2013, 03:01:27 pmIt seen that it aleady on sale in taobao for quiet awhile.

author: JimmyMz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 06:23:39 pm
content: tequipment has stated, with certainty, that the Rigol -S series is NOT leaving China,BUTthere will be an "AS" series that WILL be released outside of China. He also confirmed that there is no ETA for the new "AS" series of oscilloscopes. Take it for what it's worth, but it's worth pointing out that tequipment is an official distributor ofmostRigol scopes here in the USA.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 08:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: JimmyMz on May 22, 2013, 06:23:39 pmHaven't they heard about the grey market, then?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2013, 08:33:04 pm
content: OK, so no replacement for my DSOX2002A coming soon. I needn't regret buying my scope.

author: lgbeno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 04:13:01 pm
content: I was just about to pull the trigger on a DS2072 and then caught wind of the -S series. Part of me is glad that I did and the other half is sad because now I will likely wait until September.I think that it is worth waiting for though... One thing that I'm wondering is is there will be any software features for doing some low frequency network analysis with the two functions in one box. If not, certainly a PC script could be written to do so. I can think of a lot of nifty measurements that I could do.

author: jhufford
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2013, 10:55:56 pm
content: It's been many months since the last post here. Anyone hear anything new about this? I was just about to order a rigol ds2202 and I just happened to hear a passing reference on Dave's review of the instek scope that rigol's coming out with a new ds2000 that has the function gen option. Should I hold off on purchasing the ds2202?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 10:38:57 am
content: Yes please, wait.

author: jhufford
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 07:38:30 pm
content: OK, I got the skinny on this. Chatting with tequipment.net, I was told the new scopes would be shipping at the end of November (ugh, I want one now! Like another poster said, Rigol I have money I want to give you, don't make me wait!)and here's the pricesRigol DS2202A -200 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope $1626.00Rigol DS2202A-S -200 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope with 2 channel source $1976.00Rigol DS2302A-S - 300 MHz, 2 channels digital oscilloscope with 2 channel source $2571.00So it's an extra $350 for the function gen. This will be my first scope for home and I haven't used a function gen since electronics class in college about 6 or 7 years back. Is the function gen worth it? Would I find uses for it if I had it? I'd kinda like to limit my purchase to $2000, so I could either get the 200mhz scope with function gen or the 300 mhz scope without. I plan to use the scope on microcontroller projects and I'd like to do some radio projects, like homemade fm and am transceiver (Which is why I'd like a minimum 200 mhz scope, so I can easily directly see an oscillator in the fm range).. So what's more useful, the 200-300mhz range or a 25 mhz function gen? Advice anyone?On the function gen front, how does this built-in one stack up to stand alone ones? What else will it do besides just the normal sine, sawtooth, sqaure, triangle, etc. ?

author: darrylp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 08:36:31 pm
content: Or playing devils advocate, get ds2072 now 800 us dollars, and a decent separate arb function gen. Cheaper, and you have it now. The ds2072 can be freely bandwidth and decoder upgraded to 200MHz--Darryl

author: manzini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 08:58:17 pm
content: Quote from: darrylp on October 14, 2013, 08:36:31 pmOwon, Siglent... after waiting months for version A, maybe ds1074z ...... I have finally bought a DS2072.The decision was making me dizzy, I have finally decided to have it now. I thought that a HW 2.0 of a platform with a year of revisions, at the beginning will be more stable than new hardware. This could be an absurd statement, but I'm too tired to product issues and it's my first rigol experience.An external awg will be the next.In any case, a very good company to my old Tek 2215.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2013, 09:17:39 pm
content: Quote from: manzini on October 14, 2013, 08:58:17 pmIf you look on page 224 of the DS2000A user manual from the Rigol Chinese web site:http://www.rigol.com/download/China/DS/User_guide/DS2000A_UserGuide_CN.pdfIt shows HW v2.0.It may be that the DS2000A has the same hardware as the currently shipping DS2000 series but with newer firmware to take advantage of the added hardware features present in HW v2(or the user's manual is wrong).

author: jhufford
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2013, 03:43:15 pm
content: Darryl -Very interesting idea. But I'm reluctant because Murphy's a real bastard and I don't want to void my warranty... And I don't mind Rigol making a profit, from looking at reviews it seems that Rigol is by far the best bang for the buck.It is awfully tempting, $800 for a scope and $800 for a DG4062 60 Mhz AWG, and still a couple hundred extra in my pocket... I might end up paying $1900 for the 200Mhz with function gen and then unlock it to 300mhz sometime down the road.. Seems the ds2072 are all sold out anyways.. Or, once the new models come out, any older models left in stock will be reduced in price.... Choices, ugh.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 10:26:24 pm
content: It seems thatDS2000A-Swith arbitrary generator is coming to markets.http://www.rigol.com/prodserv/DS2000A/http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS2102A-S/http://toolboom.com/en/Digital-Oscilloscope-RIGOL-DS2102A-S.phphttp://shop.meilhaus.de/en/rigol+ds2102a-s.htmhttp://www.batterfly.com/shop/rigol-ds2102a-s

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 10:51:58 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on January 08, 2014, 10:26:24 pmPeople in the EU have already bought it and have posted on this forum.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 12:06:29 am
content: Yes, I have it, but don't know much about it yet.. anything I should check/post?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2014, 10:40:55 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on April 27, 2013, 08:38:56 pmDoes anyone with a DS2000-S know what commands on that list are working over SCPI?And similar question for the DS1074Z-S. Ideally I'd like to generate a waveform from matlab/python/whatever and then program that using SCPI. In the DS2000 programming guide I found the :TRACE<n>:DATA:DAC and similar commands that would allow that sort of functionality. But in the DS1000Z programming manual I couldn't find the equivalent.For the DS1000Z-S we do have:[:SOURce[<n>]]:FUNCtion[:SHAPe]<wave> ... {SINusoid|SQUare|RAMP|PULSe|NOISe|DC|INTErnal|EXTernal}EXTernal: arbitrary waveformOr alternatively with[:SOURce[<n>]]:APPLy:USER.Great, so we canselectthe arbitrary waveform over SCPI. But how to program the waveform on the DS1074Z-S? Possibly similar to the DS2000A with :TRACE<n>:DATA:DAC.Has anyone tried this yet?

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2014, 11:23:34 pm
content: I have a 1074Z-S. If there's something you want me to try, let me know.Today I learned that AM modulation is not sweeping! Sweeping uses a sawtooth wave to modulate frequency, then?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2014, 12:15:45 am
content: Quote from: Rigby on February 20, 2014, 11:23:34 pmThanks!I don't have a 1074Z-S (yet), and I'm trying to decide if the -S is worth it. A big part of the usability for me would depend on how programmable it is over SCPI. So if you could check the following SCPI commands that would be great::SOURCE1:OUTPUT:STATE ON:SOURCE1:APPLY:SINUSOIDIf I understand things correctly, that should give a sine wave with default settings.:SOURCE1:APPLY:USERThat should change it to the arbitrary waveform. What waveform it uses, who the hell knows, since I cannot find that in TFM.Quote from: TFMSo presumably it will select waveform numero uno (out of 10 possible) by default.And if you could check those ...:DATA VOLATILE,200,500:DATA:VALue? VOLATILE,200:DATA:DAC VOLATILE,0,16383,8192,0,16383Those are from the DS2000 programming guide, and it would be handy to know if that works on the DS1000Z series as well.You can also load/save waveforms in *.arb format. So if all else fails you could use an usb stick or whatever to load new waveforms, but IMO that's not nearly as useful as programming in new waveforms over SCPI from a script or whatever your fav tool.QuoteI read that it supports both AM and FM modulation. FM modulation range is from 1 Hz - 50 kHz.With this you should be able to do some FM modulation with a 1 kHz ramp.:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FUNCTION RAMP:SOURCE1:MOD:FM:INTERNAL:FREQUENCY 1000If I read this correctly that should work with the builtin stuff (sine etc) as well as with the arbitrary waveform.The specs for the AWG on the 1000 and 2000 series look exactly the same, so I am hoping that Rigol is also providing more or less the same interface...

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2014, 02:07:41 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 21, 2014, 12:15:45 amThe first turns the source on, as expected, but returns an error.The second applies the sinusoid as expected, leaving all other settings alone. (I turned it to ramp w/AM modulation, to see if it would switch to sine wave again. It did.)Quote from: mrflibble on February 21, 2014, 12:15:45 amCorrect. The GUI on the scope shows "Arb" and the scope trace shows flatline. I've been diddling with the ARB waveform so that flatline could just be me.Quote from: mrflibble on February 21, 2014, 12:15:45 amthe first seems to have no effect.the second returns a value.the third seems to have no effect.I can't find a way to create a waveform in .arb format over USB or thumbdrive or anything. guidance on that is welcome.Quote from: mrflibble on February 21, 2014, 12:15:45 amresults as you expect.complete results:Quote from: My Scope

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2014, 06:36:16 am
content: These two guides lists the available commands for 1000z and 2000ahttp://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/Programming_guide/DS1000Z_Programming%20Guide_EN.pdfhttp://www.rigol.com/download/Oversea/DS/Programming_guide/DS2000A_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdfAnyone creating an graphical gui to control it?

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 01:21:43 pm
content: Could somebody who's played with the DS2000A-S series signal generator describe how satisfactory the user interface is in practice? I saw a youtube video of the DS1074Z-S's signal generator, and just setting the frequency looked pretty tedious.And speaking of which, I'm wondering if the DS2000A-S's sig gen superior to that in the DS1074Z-S, given that the price increment for the former is around $350, versus $230 for the latter?Thanks!

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 02:12:08 pm
content: It's the rotary encoder without detents that is the cause of a lot of issues I have with setting the frequency.Honestly the scope should have a 10-key number pad. It would make using the signal gen a heck of a lot easier.(I have a DS1104Z-S)

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 02:35:03 pm
content: The scope need an app for the signalgen to be used, I'm not using mine, for me this ui is totally useless.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2014, 02:59:38 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on February 25, 2014, 02:35:03 pmIt's actually not that hard to do if you want to play with SPCI. I think you can even do it over the network using telnet and without installing any software.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 02:20:54 am
content: Thanks Rigby and neslekkim for your comments!Regarding the possibility of a "remote UI": that prompts curiosity as to opportunities for adding a minimal external controller box with whatever UI knobs etc one might prefer... say an Arduino via USB or Ethernet.I know user marmad has done a lot of work on interfacing via PC, but I've not read enough of that to divine how easy it would be to assemble the software sufficient for a standalone controller to implement simple but useful UI functions.Thoughts?-- GrahamQuote from: Rigby on February 25, 2014, 02:59:38 pm

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 02:26:56 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 20, 2014, 10:40:55 pmI think Marmad found a way. I read it somewhere a moment ago but now I can't find it to link it for you. He looked at a firmware dump, so if you can find a firmware dump of the DS1000Z you may find the SCPI commands you're after.If you find some, let me know and I'll give them a shot when I can.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 03:14:30 am
content: I think Marmad's experiment is partially valid until further validated.Translation: AFAIK Marmad has a DS2000 series. So what validation steps you ask? Going through the DS2000A programming manual, and testing what SCPI commands also work on the DS1000Z.Chances are pretty good that Rigol is just silly and decided not to include some stuff in the DS1000Z programming manual for whatever reason. I did write down a few commands that might be interesting....Couple of quick tests. These are missing from DS1000 manual but listed for the DS2000A:LAN:STATUS?:CALCULATE:MODE?:SOURCE1:FUNCTION:SHAPE:DC:SOURCE1:VOLTAGE:AMPLITUTE MAX:SOURCE1:PULSE:DCYCLE 42:SOURCE1:PULSE:DCYCLE?:BUS1:MODE?I'd expect that return PARALLEL....As for programming a waveform, I noticed that should not be too difficult using a couple of commands. So if you are willing to try, then I can write a few lines of SCPI commands for it.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 03:47:00 am
content: Quote from: gwideman on February 25, 2014, 01:21:43 pmAs far as I can tell they are more or less the same, +/- the delta for randomized chinese documentation. As in, compared the specs for the sig gen on the DS2000A and on the DS1000Z and I couldn't find any significant difference. Most notable difference is max sine wave frequency. 1 MHz on the DS2000A-S and 25 MHz on the DS1000Z-S. But I would not at all be surprised if the current DS2000A firmware also goes up to 25 MHz for a sine wave. And if not, you can always program your own waveform so that it does.Admittedly, that way you don't get any potential optimizations Rigol might have made for improving the sine waveform.On the subject of sine waveforms ... did anyone take apart a DS1000Z-S yet to see what the sig gen part looks like? Would be neat if it's a separate assembly with it's own clock source. Would be even neater if that clock happens to be an easy 10 MHz. ;-) That would just be an extra bnc connector waiting to happen.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 04:36:21 am
content: Quote from: gwideman on February 26, 2014, 02:20:54 amYup, had pretty much the same idea. I do something similar for my own scpi controlled little projects. I've only recently started doing this, but so far I like it ... for the most part. STM32 + chibios + libscpi + caffeine == controlling your project with scpi commands over serial and ethernet. Latest thingy is some simple PWM stuff for testing H-bridges. So setup duty cycle, frequency, ramps, triggers and all that over SCPI. And the "front panel" right now consists of a couple of knobs + buttons.The part I don't like? The libscpi I use right now is very basic. But hey, for now it is almost good enough and doesn't have me lookingtoo oftenat writing my own lex + yacc or antlr based parser or whatever the cool kids use these days. That libscpi is still strncasecmp() galore, but MUST NOT THINK ABOUT IT. Black box. ohhhhhhmmmmmmmm.Right now I simply echo commands to the serial port. Later I'll reuse a simple qt app from some time ago that did something very similar. As in you press a pretty button in the GUI, and it then sends the appropriate command over serial/ethernet. I have that working on linux and on android tablet for controlling a DDS module. Should also work on windoze, but I haven't checked that build for ages because who the hell cares. Life's too short for windoze builds.All that to say that, yes, it's pretty doable to make your own control panel. But I will say that I am a bit ambivalent in that regard. Ideally a good scope UI will do all the things I need on the front panel with a minimum of button presses. I do NOT expect a scope like this (or a dedicated signal source for that matter) to have a full math toolbox for signal generation. That is something easier done on a dedicated PC. But the lack of 0-9 digits and nano-micro-milli buttons for quick entry of frequency and such, that is just silly. It probably is a space tradeoff, but still... And the lack of detent when selecting frequency also doesn't sound all that confidence inspiring either.Something like that would indeed prompt me to make an app on the android where you enter the frequency, and then send SCPI command. And probably a couple of frequency presets and all that. I already have that in the DDS controller anyways, so copy/paste ftw.Anyways, things that I noticed that could possibly do with some attention:- timestamps for use with segmented memory- creating waveforms using matlab/whatever and uploading it to the scope. Maybe something with pretty pixels, but I am not much of a GUI person. Command line tends to get the job done faster for me.- related to segmented memory, downloading all the segments in one fast transfer instead of this slowpoke business of reading a segment into display memory and then readout display memory for each and every segment. Not sure if that is possible, but it's worth looking into. That will require some experimentation as the high quality docs are useless as authoritative source. I think of rigol programming docs more as a "collection of command suggestions that might even do something".Oh yeah, related to timestamping the trigger ... does anyone know how shitty the jitter is on the trigger out on the DS1000Z? I think I read something like 2 ns jitter best case. So then since you know your instrument it would be 2 ns jitter. Which is pretty bad, but would still be useable for the purpose of knowing when a particular segment was.The reason I ask ... I would like to be able to combine the DS1000 with my HP scope. Let the DS1000 do the triggering, and then use the trigger out as trigger source for the HP. Basically to combine the large memory of the DS1000 with the better single shot capability of the HP for when I need to look at some fast edges. Maybe this will be shit, maybe not, I don't know until I've tried it. The HP is nice, but the memory size is soooo 1990's.As is the crt and the turbine engine fans.Quote from: Rigby on February 25, 2014, 02:59:38 pmSCPI over telnet looks to be trivial indeed. I recall it being port 6666 but not 100% sure since I don't own one yet, so not committed to memory.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 12:05:27 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 26, 2014, 04:36:21 amI can't find a way to make this work. Port 5555 is open when I scan, but telnet doesn't connect. sadface.jpg.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2014, 11:30:00 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on February 26, 2014, 12:05:27 pmI did a quick check, and it could very well be that it uses ye olde RPC port mapper on port 111. You can use wireshark to check the secret handshake between VISA and the rigol. That way you know what rcp call to do and make your own telnet wrapper with a small C prog or your favorite script language.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2014, 01:55:43 am
content: I'm very interested in progress on this! I've seen numerous threads thatclaimthat control via telnet (or at least sockets) should be possible, but I haven't seen a report of it being done, and how to do it.Really the interest is in being able to carry on the SCPI conversation without a VISA library, to facilitate simple external boxes to be able to talk to the scope.Thanks for reporting the efforts!

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2014, 02:14:28 am
content: Quote from: gwideman on February 27, 2014, 01:55:43 amJust send me one and I'll have sockets working for you within 24 hours of delivery. I'll even pay for my own energy drink.QuoteThat indeed is the idea.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2014, 01:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 27, 2014, 02:14:28 amI'm actually halfway inclined to give you webcam and remote access to a PC, so you can see the scope visually while you control it via SPCI. If you're interested in that, let me know and I'll get it set up. It will take me a couple days to get things going at the least. Using SPCI in combination with the front panel buttons seems to lock things up (actually anything complex seems to lock it up somewhat) so you'll need someone on hand to power cycle the thing, potentially.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2014, 10:33:54 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on February 25, 2014, 02:59:38 pmI think you're confused. SPCI is the group that got upset with the abuse echen was inflicting on his 1074Z (Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Instruments), during his 'teardown'.SCPIis what you were looking for.Learn it. Know it. Use it. (think, Skippy)

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2014, 10:35:07 pm
content: Yes, thank you.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 01:15:40 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 26, 2014, 04:36:21 amWhew! That was quite the brain dump!QuoteIt's not possible.Not on any of the Rigol models. I've asked Rigol if this is something they could enable, and they said no.You have to step through and select each frame, before you can send the samples it contains. Though you're really not reading it into and out of display mem. It's considerably faster than that would imply.QuoteConsidering the magnitude of the re-arm time on the Rigols, I don't think a few ns of TriggerOut jitter will be much of a factor at all. If that's going to be an issue for you, then this is not the tool you're looking for.

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 02:37:37 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 26, 2014, 11:30:00 pmSmells like it might use VXI-11, which is very common for instruments that support LAN. If you like python, check out my python VXI-11 driver athttp://www.github.com/alexforencich/python-vxi11/. You should be able to talk tho the device from the Python terminal like so:Code:>>> import vxi11>>> instr = vxi11.Instrument("192.168.1.xxx")>>> instr.ask("*IDN?")'some response'VXI-11 is quite common and there are definitely drivers available in other languages as well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 03:17:20 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on February 26, 2014, 04:36:21 amThe triggering is analog and comes from your input waveform, so it's going to what it's going to be, right?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 06:50:17 am
content: Quote from: Mark_O on March 02, 2014, 01:15:40 amWell, crap. I don't have one yet, so I can't muck about to see how fast you can get it. But I did watch marmad's vid on the subject, and there the frame by frame downloading looked damn slow.QuoteNot to worry, the effective re-arm time of my HP in this use case is even more.single-shot, slurp waveform over gpib, re-arm.Quote from: alex.forencich on March 02, 2014, 02:37:37 amYup, VXI-11 is my guess as well. If only because some discussions about other Rigol gear also talks about them using VXI-11 on their LXI enabled products. I had already found some linux-gpib + agilent code snippets I was going to use, but your python lib might be even easier.Quote from: EEVblog on March 02, 2014, 03:17:20 amTo a certain degree certainly. But you'd expect the triggering circuit to apply a fair amount of gain (plus clipping) to increase the slewrate into the comparator. Or am I missing something? Entire possible of course.Anyways, it is what it is as you say. I am just trying to find out more accurately "what it is". So I'm interested in hearing about people using the ext trigger in a setup, and if it was useful/crap/some-problems-but-okay.

author: gwideman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 07:34:46 am
content: Quote from: Mark_O on March 01, 2014, 10:33:54 pmHahahaha -- nice one. The screwdriver torture inflicted on that poor 1074Z is all the more painful given the current supply shortage. There are plenty of good homes waiting to adopt one. :-)

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2014, 08:04:01 am
content: Quote from: gwideman on March 02, 2014, 07:34:46 amYeah, that one was particularly painful to watch. That poor scope.I watched that vid before I made my purchasing decision to also go for a 1074Z, but yeah, I promise I will not abuse my scope like that.You know, whenever Rigol decides to provide dealers with more than 1 scope per month or something.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 12:56:22 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on March 02, 2014, 06:50:17 amIn that case, you've already seen how fast it can go. I doubt marmad tossed in some time-wasting code, just for fun.Actually, on the 1000Z you may be able to go somewhat faster than what you saw. The reason being that on the DS2000 he was also taking time to query for and retrieve the time-stamp logs. Since there are none on the 1000Z, you can skip that. Now while your reaction might be, "That time must be negligible", it may not be. That's because there are many segments (up to 60,000), and there's overhead and latency involved when asking for and retrieving that small chunk of data, that is way out of proportion to the size of the data. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like a 20%+ speedup, though I could be all wet. Also, the 1000Z has less data to transfer (24M vs. 56M), so that will speed things up as well.Still, it's probably going to be slower than you'd like, especially if you capture a large number of frames.