CE doesn't mean anything anymore - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: E Schnieder
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:21:31 am
content: A colleague opened up these 20W LED lamps at work to add a longer cable to them and.. Just look for yourself.When he opened them, the small plastic box containing the power supply was already open, with the soldered contacts already touching the case.Images are in the attachments.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:28:10 am
content: I'm afraid CE has never meant anything, unless combined with a reputable manufacturer or importer. Since the CE scheme relies purely on the manufacturer's or importer's self-declaration, anybody can slap a "CE" sticker on their product no matter what, if they are reckless enough.Buying mains-powered products from a no-name Chinese vendor is always a gamble -- be it lighting, power supplies, phone chargers...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:30:18 am
content: It means China Export.All you can deduce from the mark is it was made in china and exported.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:22:43 am
content: The value of the CE mark is more like a little below the QC stickers to show they went through quality control or quantity control.It's kind of required in the EU and essentially only says the importer declares that he takes (legal) responsibility for following the rules.The CE mark is no more than showing that there should be a declaration of conformity that tell whom to blame if the part is bad.P.S. this unit should get a place in the RAPEX list.https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers_safety/safety_products/rapex/alerts/?event=main.listNotifications&year=2019&lng=en

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 04:58:22 pm
content: Self-marking CE is as meaningful as the trust you have in the manufacturer. Obviously. As it will never be verified unless there are accidents and the company gets sued.CE mark has significantly more meaning when it is delivered by notified bodies (CE symbol followed by the ID of the NB, currently a 4-digit number AFAIK), which is mandatory only for a very restricted number of product categories (such as medical devices). Even so, it's far from perfect (but making it more stringent would hinder the industry so much that practically no new product would see the light...)

author: babysitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 09:41:16 pm
content: ... And the four digit number should be valid,too.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:09:34 pm
content: Any sort of certification mark means only as much as the entity behind it. Anyone can slap a certification sticker on anything they want, with the sheer volume of goods flowing in it's futile for the authorities to police all of it. If you are concerned about certifications, buy goods from reputable brands through authorized sellers that stand behind the goods they sell. Otherwise it's buyer beware, evaluate the stuff yourself.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 10:19:27 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2019, 10:09:34 pmYeah, there are plenty of devices with fake UL, VDE, FCC and many other markings.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2019, 11:19:38 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on April 19, 2019, 10:30:18 amDepending on the product, quality, and how bad luck prone the user is,CE = China Explosive

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 04:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: babysitter on April 19, 2019, 09:41:16 pmObviously, but whereas sticking a "CE" symbol on any device that can legally be self-marked is not a violation of the law in itself (the manufacturer takes full responsability), using an invalid NB ID is and could get the company in deep trouble, so it happens much less often in my experience.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 04:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: E Schnieder on April 19, 2019, 10:21:31 amThe importer of the lights is responsible for making sure the markings are legitimately applied and that the device complies with applicable laws and regulations. If you imported them yourself, you are responsible for this.I like the ground cable. They kind of stuck it in a somewhat correct location and went with it.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 08:53:34 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on April 19, 2019, 10:28:10 am^this.Quote from: Psi on April 19, 2019, 10:30:18 amIf you're serious: no, it means always "CE marking", it's only an improper labeling put to legally allow a commercial product to move inside the EU territory.There are some people that still believe in China Export Myth (heard it even in a Fluke video).You can't reproduce the CE symbol (even if it's similar but not the same) and then say that it means something else, it's explicitly forbidden.It's simply a CE marking (sometimes even deliberately wrong) put on a product that doesn't comply with the CE directives.If you're just kidding... nevermind.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:00:42 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 20, 2019, 04:20:53 pmIt isif the product you label doesn't really comply with the directives. You can self mark most products but you must go thru a testing process to understand if it's "a safe product" and complies with the regulations. If you don't do the test and declare it compliant, you make false statements that can lead to legal actions.Of course, until the product is tested, it remains legally compliant. But a bad earthing like that can prove you're not compliant in a matter of seconds.

author: alpher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:09:17 pm
content: All the joking aside, can anybody explain what exactly the CE mark means?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: alpher on April 20, 2019, 09:09:17 pmWithout trying to be funny, see the link below.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

author: alpher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 09:34:20 pm
content: Thanks, all I was looking for :Conformité Européenne, can anybody explain why is it in French and what it means?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 10:27:56 pm
content: Quote from: alpher on April 20, 2019, 09:34:20 pmhttps://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=auto&tl=en&text=Conformit%C3%A9%20Europ%C3%A9enneThe EU is seated in both Brussels and Strasbourg. Both are French speaking areas, although it should be noted Conformité Européenne is not officially defined as the meaning of CE.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2019, 11:09:55 pm
content: Quote from: alpher on April 20, 2019, 09:34:20 pmIt is in French, because that is one of the official languages in europe. EC stands for many things, like European Commission, so I guess they went with French to avoid confusion.It means that the product doesn't violate the European law, and such it complies with a bunch of harmonized standards:https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards_enJust a note that contrary to popular belief, not everything is self-assessed from the above standards. And not complying with it -> results fines or jail.

author: benbradley
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 04:47:42 am
content: Read closely the "Misuse" section of the Wikipedia article:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#MisuseThis may be "technically legal" (in the EU) because the "China Export" logo isn't an exact duplicate of the European CE certification mark, but it's grossly misleading.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 11:43:42 am
content: Quote from: benbradley on April 30, 2019, 04:47:42 amYou should actually read what you link.Quote

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 06:54:03 pm
content: Quote from: benbradley on April 30, 2019, 04:47:42 amNo. It isexpressly forbiddento reproduce the CE mark in any other form, in particular to mislead consumers.And if you think about it... it makes no sense to intentionally create a similar CE mark because with a non compliant product you would violatethe exact same lawswhether you place on it a the correct CE mark, a similar one or a wrong CE mark.Would you make a fake coin that is not perfectly identical to the original?With a non-compliant CE mark you are violating evenan additional rule: product not complying with the directives + CE mark not conforming to the specifications.Think about this: it is not with a simple and banal change to the spacing of the letters and by shortening the dash of E that a non compliant product becomes perfectly compliant with the regulations.Addendum edit: And nobody can reproduce without going in troubles marks like (for example) Nike or Gucci by simply changing the spacing between letters or changing some dashes in the "G" or in the "e", telling that "that is not the original logo, so you can't touch me, ha-ha!".And again (repetitia juvant), there is no "China Export" mark, symbol or group of exporters that decided to be unite under the same symbol...it is just a bad CE mark.You can find itsometimeseven in perfectly compliant products. They do in that way simply because they don't know the symbol specs/don't care/they think they are smart.