Clueless politicians want to legislate something that's not possible - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 08:52:20 am
content: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/u-s-inks-bill-to-force-geo-tracking-tech-for-gpus-and-servers-high-end-gaming-gpus-also-subject-to-trackingQuoteQuote

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 09:07:50 am
content: Typical trade protectionism. It's funny that as soon as capitalists get big they start hating that damn free market they benefited so much from.It is possible to implement tracking, but not exactly difficult to work around it. If it is internet based, determining location by server environment, then tunnel any network traffic via VPN and you can be anywhere in the world. If it means every graphics card has a GPS receiver on board (which would be bonkers), GPS simulators aren't expensive. About the only thing you could do is some kind of time-of-flight test to a datacentre somewhere. e.g. if more than 400ms (on average) from the datacentre in California, then this card is locked out. But, it would be difficult to make reliable for less performant internet connections - and, of course, some customers will not want to connect some machines to the internet.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 09:16:45 am
content: Breaking news coming in: bears do sh1t in the woods.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 09:36:03 am
content: Politicians don't know what they are doing? Wow, now that's breaking news. Call the networks. Call the newspapers. Call the internet folks.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 10:08:16 am
content: it is possible, other more sensitive equipment already has geofencing. But unlikely to be economically viable on anything other than datacenter cards.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 12:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on May 15, 2025, 09:07:50 amI made a GPS simulator from a ADLM-Pluto and some attenuators. It's really not that difficult. On the other hand they could ask for a firmware that request a one time usable authentication key, on every boot, and lock you out if you cannot geolocatie your hardware.We shouldn't dismiss these, there are very good reasons why some technology needs to have export control.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 01:19:12 pm
content: "Clueless politicians..." Senator Cotton's credentials include Harvard undergraduate (Magna cum laude), Harvard Law School (JD), Army Ranger, and tours of duty in war zones. It's unlikely he is clueless.Most important, legislation needs to be introduced to open discussion. Every affected party will have opportunity to testify either in person or in writing. Rarely are such bills enacted without multiple changes, such as compliance time and scope. Export controls seem to be needed for national security and is unrelated to any trade war. That's what Senator Conton's bill aims to accomplish.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 01:40:38 pm
content: I don't really care about it being possible or not in that case. It would be such an unacceptable breach of privacy for a democracy that IMO nobody should even consider whether it's technically feasible or not.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 02:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on May 15, 2025, 10:08:16 amyep, I heard of CNC machines with GPS and gyroscopes if moved it gets bricked until a manufaturer tech comes on site and reenables it

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 04:54:05 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on May 15, 2025, 01:19:12 pmSo he's a lawyer proposing laws to cover something outside his field of expertise?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 05:13:26 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on May 15, 2025, 01:19:12 pmIf this guy never had any physics or electronics lessons, then he could be very clueless about those subjects. There is a difference between being smart and knowledgeable.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 05:16:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 15, 2025, 05:13:26 pmThen there's this:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_disease

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 05:19:30 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 15, 2025, 01:40:38 pmDoes France have a constitutional right to privacy? Does France, Australia, etc. have free speech, religion, and association? Please point me to those sections. The US, which is where that legislation is being discussed has no such right. Our concept of "privacy" is derived from other sections and is not explicit as our freedom of speech is.Direct to your question, which part of the American constitution would that legislation violate?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 09:33:12 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on May 15, 2025, 01:40:38 pmWhat privacy? To have a datacenter specific version of the video cards? Nobody will care about your GTX Supa-dupa 4090 Ti, what they care about is the specific accelerators used for AI training with 100+ GB of memory.Quote from: langwadt on May 15, 2025, 02:08:10 pmExactly, multi axis CNCs that were capable of making specific propeller blades were banned from export. And as a result, to this day, russian nuclear submarines are more noisy and easier to detect than the western counterparts. I don't think people realize these sort of mundane looking technologies are literal life and death, likely changing the course of history.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 11:06:00 pm
content: Plenty of software already has geo-fencing restrictions (eg Altium), unless there is a specific requirement for hardware tracking that I missed, they can include this functionality in the drivers.Nvidia kind of does this already as it is:https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/275717/defeating-nvidias-telemetry/And yes, obviously there are easy ways around it. But you still presumably meet the letter of the law.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 11:19:29 pm
content: The classic:https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 11:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 15, 2025, 05:13:26 pmEven those within the field can be blind and clueless.The solar roadways guy has a masters in EE.The Batteriser guy has a PhD in EE, was an EE professor, and was CTO of a top power company.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 11:47:56 pm
content: We're not talking about huge CNC machines, but chip & board-level devices which can be used as parts of other systems. Pretty much impossible to implement any kind of effective geo-locking for something like that.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2025, 11:51:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 15, 2025, 11:19:29 pmMaybe he was following in the footsteps of the Great State of Indiana in the USA, which attempted in 1897 to pass a bill defining pi as 3.2(And @TimFox, before you chime in with your inevitable explanation that this is not quite the case, I'll save you the trouble:The bill introduced in that state actually proposed several possible definitions for the value of pi, ranging from 3.2 to 4.0; apparently the bill was the brainchild of an amateur mathematician who dreamt it up for completely self-serving reasons.It didn't pass.)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 03:49:19 am
content: All this will do is both make the rest of the world that much more motivated to develop cracks, and give China an advantage since they will no doubt continue making and improving cheap unlocked devices.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 04:58:56 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on May 15, 2025, 11:51:37 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_pi_billThe bill was passed by the Indiana House of Representatives on February 6, 1897 without a dissenting vote.QuoteI think Trump's Republicans would have passed it. Just imagine how great America would be if it could control the value of pi. (Shh, don't tell Trump).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 05:48:02 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on May 15, 2025, 09:33:12 pmUS Navy would disagree with you.That is one of things Russians do really well...Their submarines are scary good. There is nothing easy about detecting them.But yeah, propulsion technology is art of it's own.All new submarines, when photographed, have their aft side covered..

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 06:29:15 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 15, 2025, 11:19:29 pmThis is the same moron who decided that Australia's National Broadband Network didn't need to be made of fibre optics, and instead he wanted to utilise the existing, corroding copper twisted pairs. You can probably guess what happened. All the experts basically said "I told you so" and in recent years they've started running fibre everywhere, like the original design back in 2009/2010, because endlessly chasing faults cost more than just running fibre in the first place.Thankfully this clown is no longer in-charge and you'll be able to order connections up to 2 Gbps to your home (without resorting to Enterprise Ethernet) later this year.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 06:43:26 am
content: I think is damn stupid to think that a foreign government won't be able to put a new controller for a mechanical system on a mechanical system and then lie that their forces are degraded. Unless they reallllllly need a little media boostI am tired of software with magic features that turn out to be nothing at all, and it works exactly like you think it works.Theirs just won't be hyper cost engineered and they pay a little extra for some 'would be nice' components that make sense but are not added to the BOM, like ferrite beads, mounting screws, a LDO, etc.. which the excellent design team worked hard to figure out how not to use... never forget that... its corporate....I mean for something as critical as submarine propellers that have like a cold war history/legacy to upkeep. That will get moneyhydraulically rammedinto it for the sake of keeping up appearances. The #1 answer to insane cold war spending projects in the USSR is that they managed to come up with nice rocket engines. Its like something everyone can agree on, national pride about your fathers worksmanship. also IMO that will have little to do with if you agree/disagree with current government. MAD is seen by many as a geopolitical necessity that basically improves the outcome no matter what happens or who is in charge because it has to do with preventing people from doing stuff based on primal fears that are kind of uniform between facists, democrats, etc. So it will be very easy to find people that think fixing submarine related problems is noble in the end because they think that in the end the threat of strategic nuclear bombs will basically dampen any problem to be smaller scale on a long time line.Restricting hardware can cause a short duration disruption though. But I can't figure out how someone would manage to leverage this. I guess they try to control rate of development. I think there is people that think they can stay on top of it, kind of like competition between two big businesses lol. But causing disruption in technology for no good reason does not make sense and probobly has unintended consequences and economic costs because it almost starts making me think of biowarfare, which has unpredictable outcomes and no controls. Same thing with random internet attacks. It makes me think that its a extremely short minded plan. I think that will only possibly be manageable for dealing with some isolated state like NK, Cuba, etc.And you might think in the LONG scale, all these efforts result in something akin to causing heat, because its interesting how Cuba and NK are the most heavily sanctioned places on earth, but they are the only true communist regimes that did not collapse from internal pressure. I start to wonder if the reason they are still around (instead of being essentially over thrown by their populace) is because they have had such 'economic measures' taken on them. To me its kind of like a frying pan, if it over heats a little you throw away the food and can scrub it, if it over heats alot (like glowing red) you end up with lumps of coal that are basically welded to the pan.... Ever left rice or potatoes on a burner stove set to high for way too long? It's ridiculously bad. If its anything other then a stainless pan your gonna throw it out, and you might be able to salvage stainless or cast iron if you know how to do metal refinishing.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 09:04:20 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on May 15, 2025, 09:07:50 am"FREE Market - Now with trade deals and private backroom handshakes."

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2025, 12:38:36 pm
content: You aren't thinking invasive enough.Always online, with IP tracing, with GPS, with AI to detect likely fraud based on latency to a bunch of points of presence, with no presumption of innocence and the obligation for a customer to prove their location to the satisfaction of the US government if they trip the fraud detection.It's possible, just extremely non desirable.