Video subscription content password sharing warning - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 06:21:12 am
content: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/warning-issued-anybody-uk-netflix-25812864QuoteI wonder how they are going to enforce this and by what detection method for things like simply sharing a password.You may have some with many slow multiple broadband lines through connection sharing where some kind of balancing by connection is taking place that may appear randomly from those different connections or IP addresses and they might suspect "content from x account is being accessed from multiple connections" and possible has the password shared.Some years ago I was trying to compare a scene out of two movies with Amazon Prime but a message that multiple playback was detect and one of the players stopped so they couldn't watch content at the same time as someone else on that platform.*What if it was a large families with grandparents living in different properties and the children move between them and the parents property where the parents pay for everybody. What if they have many houses?**I thought that fair use allows users to share time limited parts of the videos when doing reviews and commentary.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 06:54:38 am
content: Trying to get more subscribers, as sharing a password in a single household is allowed, but sharing when not living under the same roof is not, so they are trying to get those to buy their own plan.the one local provider tried this, the backlash they got from limiting to one device only was considerable, especially as often this blocked the only device streaming, the actual set top box they supplied, and also stopped a lot of smart TV sets ( yes an oxymoron, a display should just be a dumb thing that handles a stream coming in, not needing to have updates, but a sweparate box which can be changed) from supporting the app on them.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 07:13:57 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 25, 2022, 06:21:12 amDon't tell me that everybody in the UK had assumed until now that sharing the password to a streaming account was legal?? There was no "new ruling" from the IPO; they just published a guidance document reminding people of the existing laws and T&Cs of streaming providers. (With kind support from their friendly lobbyist next door, Meta, which I find quite remarkable.)QuoteThat seems a bit far-fetched. Have you ever seen this in the real world?

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 08:26:21 am
content: I gave up doing event photography a few years back as every time I published my photos online they would just be lifted and shared on FB. If I asked FB to take them down I would he branded the Assh*le for doing so, at the same time it has created a internet that doesn't quite get copyright.But back to the subject of sharing passwords I would love to see this go to court as that is the real test. Netflix etc will soon end up as bad as the Sky service, pay a expensive price and still have to endure adverts. I was quite surprised that the online tv providers haven't been covered by Ofcom/BBFC/ofwatch etc so they stuff they publish wouldn't necessarily be allowed on UK TV. Netflix etc have been ok with sharing for years as it got people hooked on it, many would go onto buy thier own service as they liked it but the investors want money, money is power so we are seeing the lawyers gearing up for those stupid lawsuits again, just like the early 2000.How do they know you have multiple addresses. Well each unit has a fingerprint, they will compare that to its IP/provider, as A only access it from this device at this IP but then B uses a different device on a different IP at the same time but always from a different IP then they are never at the same address. some would just take a photo of a computer screen. So no amount if java would stop them. There were even some that would remove the water marks I had put on.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 08:30:41 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on December 25, 2022, 07:13:57 amI don't feel at the moment for some time now that I am living in the real world and so far behind with everything.I know someone who told me last year about their friend, that one day OpenReeach vans turned up in their village, not replace the ageing adsl 1, with FTTC or FTTP but to disconnect the landlines (analogue voice portion) and giving them VOIP phones to connect to their router. Apparently he didn't like it as it kept on cutting out. When the children are using the broadband no chance of making or taking calls and he said mobile signal is poor there too.Yes, I have. I am using a Pfsense router with two VDSL FTTC lines (2x8 static ips one for the gateways apart of the deal) no FTTP available yet as it is the countryside and a 4g backup modem connected to the pfsense plaftorm. In 2015 I had what I have got now before I moved.I had been in places some years ago where ADSL 1, 4mbps is all they had and fibre to the cabinet was not available but for the same price in one shop Talktalkbusiness offered 4 adsl lines for the price they were paying for one until FTTC became available and I set it up with connection sharing and it helped a little but only does it by connection.Quite unrealistic from what I was expecting in this day and age. I was told FTTP would be in this village last year. It was cabled far up the road cabled up but not still not operational for a year according to someone I know and they are building new houses further upMaybe it may change shortly where they'd have to.I see quite a few people last year could only get 30mbps fortunately there was some available slots/capacity 80mbps just on moving and I am getting about 60 to 70mbps download. Nothing exciting which is why I have two expecially when I am living with many who may need the bandwidth.Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 25, 2022, 08:26:21 amIf they dare put channel logos up as similar to what they do on terrestrial Freeview television channels then they loose my custom. So many channels but I can't tolerate logos during movies and I tend to get distracted very easily.I remembered last decade there was this TV viewer that I found a lot more stable than Huappuage's own Wintv viewer for this tv tuner I had and it was called Dscaler and that had a configurable logo/watermark killerhttps://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/dscaler4.htmthat could be adjusted in size, colours and moved around and can be set to blend in with the surroundings. There were 4 channels and channel 5 started to doing then the rest followed with only 3 left but I don't bother with terrestrial anymore. The only thing I see is the news and it isn't nice.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:52:57 am
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 25, 2022, 08:26:21 amCopyright only really exists for large companies. It's as good as non-existent for the individual, without the resources to do anything.Did it really affect your business that much? Presumably you only uploaded a small selection of low resolution photographs.

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 10:19:04 am
content: I uploaded all the photos at low res. But the younger generation would just share them via FB as that is all they wanted to do, plus the credit crunch at the time so hardly any spare cash at the end of a event so many to stopped buying the photos. It wasnt a big money maker for me, it would buy kit and it got me outside at the weekends. I also ended up with a competitor at events who had more more money to waste than me.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 02:43:39 pm
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 25, 2022, 10:19:04 amThen it appears as though your business model was flawed to start with. Perhaps you should have gone after the older market or done weddings, when people want a physical photo album? Not selling the pictures and just asking for money for being a photographer is another option.Quote from: ebastler on December 25, 2022, 07:13:57 amIt doesn't affect me, as I don't subscribe to anything and probably never will, but I didn't think it was illegal, just breach of contract. It does sound over the top. Just charging users who share extra, then cutting them off and taking them to court if they don't settle the bill is a better way to deal with it.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 03:46:53 pm
content: amazes me how large corporations can find 27 cops to bust someone's door down for file sharing,or order a dog van to collect a shoplifter from tescos,but have your home broken into or your car nicked and its a struggle to even get a crime number,well not unless your a celeb.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 06:36:41 pm
content: Almost nobody is going to care, and unfortunately the streaming companies are going to respond by making the legal product even less convenient than pirated content which further increases piracy, it's predictable as it seems to happen every time.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 08:16:30 pm
content: Password sharing is illegal? Really?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 08:33:54 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 25, 2022, 08:16:30 pmReading this link:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64003237Basically seems to say that if the act (in the UK), of sharing a password, is part of an activity to fraudulently obtain services, goods or stuff, without paying for them. Then that is illegal.E.g. A screw driver is usually legal. But if you use it to gain access to a cash machine and steal £2,000 from it. Then that is illegal, and the screw driver is (in legal terms, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure of the legal terms), connected to the crime(s).

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 08:37:52 pm
content: Yeah. Meaning the title of the quoted article was, as usual, a clickbait.Quote

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on December 25, 2022, 08:33:54 pmIn the US you can be charged with possession of burglary tools for carrying otherwise legal tools in certain circumstances. A prybar and screwdrivers are legal to own and possess but if you're found creeping around at night with these tools in a backpack that is suspicious.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on December 25, 2022, 08:33:54 pmInteresting, the screwdriver, like given the keys to do it but whether the key owner gave the keys to a third party to do something else and third party accessed content without permission from the key holder (that could be against the terms and conditions) or the key holder purposely gave them their credential and password to obtain the service for free that they haven't paid for in the keyholders name without the keyholder never being present whilst using the service.Quote from: Zero999 on December 25, 2022, 02:43:39 pmhttps://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/21/sharing-tv-streaming-passwords-is-says-uk-copyright-watchdogQuoteA small extra monthly fee offered sounds sensible if non family are using an account without the account holder present under a different roof than going to court. Maybe like Netflix they could do different plans like "charge by roof" or "by individual groups living under different roofs.Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 25, 2022, 08:16:30 pmhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64003237QuoteMore likecredential sharingas it isn't the password alone.Accounts could have the same password by coincidence.Reminds me an article about easy to guess passwords being used by many and I think one of them was "123456"https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/20/123456-worst-passwords-revealedQuoteQuote from: james_s on December 25, 2022, 06:36:41 pmAmazon Prime seems to already have a mechanism in place allow one playback at a time. Some years ago I was trying to compare scenes from two different movies (I believe were n the same filming locations) and a message about multiple playback and one player stopped.

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:41:05 pm
content: Oh hello, PriateBay. It has been a while.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:45:22 pm
content: Well it's pretty much the same thing as with DRM in the end.The main question IMO is whether credentials to a subscription-based service or digital rights should be attached to a person, or to an access right independently of whoever uses it.For subscription-based services, it's not hard to restrict the rights to only one (or a predetermined number of) simultaneous users. But attaching those rights to a person rather than an "use" is opening a can of worms.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:53:44 pm
content: In USA the DCMA act has $150,000 fine per offense.jon

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 09:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 25, 2022, 08:16:30 pmQuote from: MrMobodies on December 25, 2022, 09:34:55 pmI suppose a new answer, which I think applies to both of you, is (and it could also be classed as an analogy).Imagine you have purchased, just ONE single train ticket, for a long (and expensive) train journey. Then you take your entire family, friends and some others, with you. Perhaps ten poeple in total. Then, as the train inspector, checks that all passengers, have the correct paid for ticket, you use a sneaky very thin (fishing line), tied to the ticket. To pass it between those same 10 passengers (cheaters), while the ticket collector (inspector), is walking down the train.I.e. A bit like how some of the Mission Impossible Movies, trick people, sometimes, using various methods.So, that would be (the ticket sharing), illegal. As it would be fraudulently obtaining the train journeys, without paying for most of the train fairs (apart from one of them).I suspect, the video providers (Netflix, Amazon Prime Video etc). Could come up with techniques, to reduce or ensure, that the service(s) are used appropriately. E.g. Providing a dongle or something, which has to be plugged into the computer, or network or wi-fi (for mobile phones). In order to get the services to work.Alternatively, perhaps that dongle (or device), needs to be connected to the particular internet network, in order to allow it to work.Anyway, I suspect, they could come up with some kind of technical solution(s).Where it could get complicated, is if in the one household, in the same home/address. Has three different IP addresses (because they are NOT using a land-line/broadband), but instead all using mobile network internet services. Each of which, has someone, watching the paid for, video services, on their own, individual mobile phones.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 10:26:47 pm
content: It's kinda compilated.Are you paying for an account for the house, or are you paying for an account for you as a person to use the service.If it's only for you as a person then you should be able to use your password while at a friends place to watch movies.But it seems like most of the streaming websites imply that it's an account for you personally but anyone in your household can use it.Which is kind of a contradiction, or at the very least makes it hard to state that an account being used at more than one location at different times is a sign of anything illegal.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 10:33:22 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on December 25, 2022, 09:59:00 pmAlso bit like selling those modified Kodi boxes all set to access paid content without paying for the content.I think they should define the terms of usage and different plans (roof plan, individual plan, remote family and friends plan and maybe some plans requiring the USB dongle for authentication attimes if they move around a lot or are behind cgnat.Edit:As MK14 pointed out Netflix has clearly defined theirs.QuoteReminds me of that but that was done in protest.QuoteThat's where the dongles would come in handy for Carrier Grade NAT with many users behind them. I came across an article some time ago in America that a few cable providers had been implementing CGNAT it instead of IPV4 due to a shortage as they had started with IPV6 and BT were quietly trialing it with an opt out.I see device checks with Google and they could use something like that to authenticate and allow or add multiple IP addresses if using a internet connection sharing configuration especially for areas limited with slow broadband.https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/05/uk-isp-bt-quietly-forces-cgnat-ipv4-internet-address-sharing-pilot.htmlQuoteNice they had an opt out for those it don't suit.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 10:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 25, 2022, 10:26:47 pmWell, taking netflix as the 'gold standard'.https://www.netflix.com/signup/planformSeems to say:QuoteWhich seems to be reasonably clear. It is for one entire household, at the same address (implied), with various maximum concurrent usage amounts, depending on the plan you pay for. I.e. Between 1, 2 or 4 devices simultaneously, depending on plan level, paid for.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 11:03:49 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 25, 2022, 10:33:22 pmThanks. I enjoyed that post, on multiple levels. I found the ticket picture funny. Also, I was very interested to learn about the IPv4 Internet Address Sharing Pilot. That is worrying. Does it mean there is a risk, of a private internet webpage, being directed back to your internet connection. Could sometimes go to the wrong user (especially if it wasn't encrypted by the browser, i.e. http rather than https etc).On searching for more information about the IPv4 Internet Address Sharing Pilot. I also noticed, that it claimed the post you just made is (technically speaking, so don't panic), illegal in the UK.Here:https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/01/uk-isps-react-to-the-pros-and-cons-of-ipv4-internet-address-sharing.htmlSpecifically, why it could be bad for security:Quotehttps://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/uk-gov-says-password-sharing-on-streaming-services-is-illegal.htmlAlso specifically, why the post you just made could be (technically speaking) illegal:QuoteHence that could mean we get:QuoteSo we could suddenly get fines in the post (maybe?), from "law firms", because of alleged password sharing, and/or possibly/maybe? sharing images on this forum.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2022, 11:05:39 pm
content: Define "live with you"?But all this is nothing new, this is inherent to the idea of DRM. While we can all understand the need of finding a new way of monetizing stuff that can be easily copied, pretty much anything we've come up with so far is absurd one way or another. I don't have a magical solution to this though.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 01:07:57 am
content: Meh. As I saw someone online say“They think by blocking my account that they will generate three more accounts, one each from the people I shared with, but in fact they will end up with one less account”Greed comes in many guises. I can see right through every one of them. They’re desperate due to falling subs. Ah well hard cheese - let me play a sad song for the billionaires.Why are clumsy business practices SO common now? (rhetorical)OP: No need to get swept along by the “news” drama queen hyperbole. “Warning”? Nope. Just another meh “news” article no one cares much about. I have a thousand and one things to watch, few of them on Netflix and countless other ways to watch them.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 01:17:17 am
content: Quote from: mendip_discovery on December 25, 2022, 08:26:21 amThere’s a certain art to adding watermarks that are not tacky or appearing money-grabbing, whilst not spoiling the experience of viewing the photos as a potential customer or future client. If that fails, I’d consider stamping “SAMPLE IMAGE” diagonally across the image in a typeface with moire/pixel noise pattern; let’s face it - your actual customer has paid you and received the actual untouched images, and these ARE samples after all.One might consider a random pixel encoding technique which slightly alters known pixel locations by a value randomised by the SHA256 hash of the original image. I digress…

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 05:09:24 am
content: I wonder if we might see a rise of "restreaming" devices, similar to Slingbox before that became another cloud service. Basically, the additional users would be accessing the same player device although they would be doing it from remote.