More audio foolery  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 06:09:44 am
content: This popped up in my google feed.https://audiobacon.net/2019/12/31/best-of-2019/amp/The website’s chief fool pretends to be an EE. The comments in the power cable sub-section are worth a few minutes of read time for how to prove you’re not an engineer.https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/18/

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 02:01:51 pm
content: Well the name of the cable brand says everything:Snake River...

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 09:16:07 pm
content: QuoteYes, I bet you do.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 09:54:22 pm
content: The level of leetspeak bullshittery from these people is beyond stupid.It makes me wonder how some of them manage to tie their shoelaces in the morning.

author: ZaphodBeeblebrox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2020, 09:59:16 pm
content: Since these auiophools are so afraid of measuring things, instead relying on "feeling" or "experiencing" them, it would do the gene pool a world of good to let them design their own power supplies instead."Now let's feel the power going in the supply for directivity of the electrolitic specialized compound materials specially designed for brighter over-harmonics of sub-zero phase shifted signals..."*touches mains inlet* <zap>BTW: Those comments in the comment section are pure gold! Present an audiophile with logic reasoning and they lash out at you for being "too objective"

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 01:34:28 am
content: I would love to have at an audiophool's setup with some test gear, a toolbox,...and a trashbag.Wonder how much would be left...

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:09:28 am
content: QuoteIt seems to me it all comes down to bragging rights and who’s got the biggest set that can spend the most money. It must be since we know it’s not about the technical specs that are conspicuously absent and its all reduced to techno babble with a very healthy dose of flowery adjectives that could just as well be some snob trying to describe a wine.What I find to be absolutely ridiculous are the cables, especially the megabuck speaker and power cables - all encased in the same 20 cent woven black nylon jackets with heat shrink on the connectors. Hell, you get over-molded connectors on $1 cables everywhere these days. As a manufacturer, how can you justify a $1000 plus cable finished with heat shrink? Seriously, the people that pay for that crap are just total idiots with no objective capabilities whatsoever.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:21:38 am
content: Quote from: WattsThat on January 03, 2020, 06:09:28 amWhat's odd to me is the attitude of peeps familiar with electronics design, gripe about rich people spending too much on oxy-free audio cables and then turn around and pay for gear that costs orders of magnitude more than the BOM.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:41:24 am
content: People spend thousands, even millions of dollars for a piece of canvas with some paint smeared on it. It doesn't do anything at all, it just sits there. Even the most ludicrously expensive audio gear is cheap compared to quite a few paintings and other works of art out there. Most of the audio gear at least does something in addition to being decorative.I'm not an audiophool but who am I to judge what someone else spends their money on? No matter what they do with the money somebody somewhere will be upset by it.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 06:54:26 am
content: I've run a few power cables in my time. When I was a boy, my first employer used Pirrelli brand cable. In later years, the elect wholesalers started to carry cheaper cable, due to the price of copper. What I can tell you, as a fitter, the old pirelli cable is just so nice when you happen upon it again after decades. The insulation just slips off with minimal wrist force. The stranded copper seems nicer as well.The real kicker is when you visit an old job to run more power outlets. You run into 30 year old twin and earth 2.5mm2. You cut and strip the old stuff and join it with the new stuff. Yuk.Too much handling of the new stuff in one day makes your hands ache with ordinary pliers. An apprentice showed up with fancy, non safe t-rex style wire strippers.Yeah, nar.Gimme the old, expensive stuff any day.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 07:29:50 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 03, 2020, 06:21:38 amI have been working as a serviceman at a high-end distributor long ago, so I have some insight how this industry works. Without justifying the viability of the products, there is a common misconception on audiophoolery (as you, audiophobes call it) here. I am not trying to proselyzate anyone but rather give an insight from the other side.Like it or not, the pricing of these products have similarities to industrial products, again without justifying the viability.Look at the first speaker on the link. What do you think how much money is to produce such a speaker? People who don't mind spending USD 20000+ on such speaker are OK to have defects in the surface finish, or dinged corners? Of course not! It has to be shiny and without the smallest visual deffect all the way. So you have to find someone who can build the box in such way, presumable in one shot. Then you have to carry around the 60-80kg behemoth without any damage too. It is an awfull lot of work to design, build and test such a speaker, then you have to face the market and realize that you are lucky if you can sell such a speaker one in every two year. Then people on EEVblog whine about lack of measurements, so they should head the anechoic chamber with it and perform all the measurements you can imagine, a simple frequency response won't cut it -we all know, Ok you have a waterfal ldiagramm, so what?In the meantime the constructors (let them be engineers or not) have family to feed and bills to pay, so the "value" of the products are inflated, -just like with industrial products.Amplifier enclosures are often made of custom machined parts, low scale manufacturing, these quickly pump up the prices even at BOM level.Cables: heat shrink tubes and 20 cent woven black nylon aside, the cables are not standard within let that be anything. Have you tried to contact any wire manufacturer to make a custom run of cable? How much do you plan to sell 1-10-100km? The price will grow inversely.All things aside, sure there are schwindlersm but as I've seen most constructors of such eqipments were real (and often very talented) engineers, and none of them could afford to own their expensive gears at home for leasure, not even those company heads. Also even if you'd see the real BOM cost considering all the corporate affiliations to manufacture such instrument, most of you would still consider it way too expensive.You are easily comlaining about these stuff, yet no one ever came up here with the idea to sell comparable equipment at 1/10 price backed up with all possible test measurements and successfull double-blind test results, to prove superiority. This should be a niche.Just my 2 cents.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 08:17:11 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 03, 2020, 08:04:23 am...at a few grands... that is considered as "cheap" then? For me certainly not! An AD1955 DAC chip, that will satisfy most listener is USD15.Quote from: blueskull on January 03, 2020, 08:04:23 amEven then, a luxury sports car, while impressive both on paper and on the road, is mostly unneccessary, unless you own an own race track for it of course, like most sports car owner don't...Like james_s said there are far too many items to spend million dollars on, yet somehow this forum has a "sweetspot" for audio gears, but it is really not much different from many others, like luxury clothing, jewellery, fine arts, etc.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 08:44:25 am
content: Well built electronics, from high quality parts (like most audiophile equippment are) can also last decades, but you should know that as well...

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 04:30:41 pm
content: There is, IMO, a HUGE difference between "audiophile" and "audiophool". A lot of the latter consider themselves the former, but that doesn't make it so. It's one thing to build equipment using top quality components, fine finishing f the cabinetry, etc, and selling it for an expected premium. It's another to make up utter BS like those "one way" Ethernet cables, or "directional" speaker cables, or those little pyramid stands to raise the cable off the floor to keep the vibrations from jarring the electrons.It's akin to someone buying a performance car and then using it in some sort of competition, or taking it to a track, vs some rando winning the lottery and then just HAVING to buy a $1mil supercar because they can, and then promptly running into a light pole the moment they exit the dealer's lot.Some may think they audiophile and the audiophool are both idiots, or both car owners are idiots, because that's not how they chose to spend their money, but they are two very different people.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 04:47:04 pm
content: Exactly, audiophool shit is a SCAM, it's claiming to more than it is which is just overpriced rubbish. Non-compliant Chinesium fuses filled with wax, plywood boxes filled with sand, crap CCA cables (wouldn't doubt it) covered in fancy insulation claiming to be "oxygen-free copper".

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 05:20:51 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on January 03, 2020, 04:30:41 pmThis ^There's a major difference between buying a $20k pair of top quality speakers from a reputable manufacturer (which will have been carefully tested and built), and $20k for "directional" power/speaker cables (given it's an AC signal, one needs little expertise to realise this is pure bullshittery).

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 05:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 03, 2020, 06:21:38 amthe BOM for software is 0, people pay for it knowing that developing it isn't freethe only development cost for the likes of megabuck speaker and power cables is writing the nonsense in thesale brochure

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 09:08:59 pm
content: Well, if you assume strictly physical 'materials'. This is one reason I could never go into accounting, it's absolutely silly. If I pay a programmer $30/hr for 40 hours a week for 6 months to write my software, that software sure as hell isn't free. I don't care what sort of voodoo is done on the ledger books, somewhere over $31k was spent (and actually a whole lot more, once various taxes and so forth are paid, even if no benefits were offered - a person's salary is just one part of their cost to a business) to get that software. The only way software can possibly be free is if there is a free open source program that you can use in your product with absolutely no time spent on having to modify it to fit your hardware. If you only have to pay the programmer for a month to modify the open source version, instead of 6 months to build from scratch, you just greatly reduced the cost, but it's still not free.Whole thing with going cloud vs having your own racks of servers - capital expenditure vs operating expense, often used as a selling point. I know this is not how accounting works, but to me, money is money, if a company takes in X and spends y to keep itself running, to me it doesn't matter which of those two buckets the money went to, it's still money going out. No, I do not want an accountant to explain this all to me.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2020, 09:20:40 pm
content: They have Latvian flag in their logo, WTF!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 01:11:20 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 03, 2020, 08:35:22 amWell I have lots of very ordinary reasonably priced electronics that have lasted decades so I don't think it's reasonable to say that electronics "can't" last. Take good care of it and electronic equipment can last a lifetime.Even if it lasts thousands of years, artworks and jewelry don't actually do anything at all, they're useless and purely decorative trinkets. Clothing is useful but if you use it, it wears out, gets stained, etc and you can get durable, comfortable clothes for a tiny fraction the price of designer stuff, just like you can get good audio gear for far less than audiophool stuff. I wouldn't personally buy either one, but if I were forced to spend $20k on either a pair of speakers or a diamond ring I'd spend it on the speakers, at least I could use those.High end audio equipment is really no different than expensive jewelry or art. People buy it because it's a status symbol, they have more money than they know what to do with and they like having expensive stuff. Ordinary people scoff at the price because they can't afford it and don't understand why anyone would pay such huge sums of money when there are things they see as being equally good or better that they can buy for far less. This is exactly how I feel about jewelry and art, I can buy a print of a painting for <$100 that I find more attractive than paintings people pay tens of millions of dollars for. I have no use whatsoever for jewelry, it's just tacky trinkets that take up space and you have to worry about someone stealing them.

author: unitedatoms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 04:30:06 am
content: If high and electronics is no different to art, then it is art. Then there should be no reason to treat diamond rings differently than some pieces of electronics just because they have an utility. With this approach comes an art critique. True art should always be recognized through some critique.The problem with electronics is that there is no art critique narrative, where something is recognized to be a new next thing, or something is found to be a kitch. And that absence of critique, is what makes many of audience enraged by cringe. The cringe is that the artist claims a technicality to be of value, when true value is in artistic expression rather than in obscure material based claim.And the good news is that the book was named Art of Electronics. Having this dogma, we can hope that Electronics is no more just a mere combobulation of engineering and science, but it is an Art. So we need to start looking for way how to critique it accordingly

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 06:30:14 am
content: I see art in many aspects of engineering, vintage Tektronix scopes for example are works of art, they're beautifully engineered in both function and form and hand built with exquisite quality. I have next to zero interest in purely decorative objects though, I like things that have function. Paintings and photos are some of the few exceptions to this, they can spruce up a room without consuming much valuable space. I see zero correlation between value and attractiveness though. I've seen a lot of expensive artwork that I would not want if it were free and there is some worthless art that is very attractive.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 07:37:37 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2020, 06:30:14 amThis is not a reasonable equivocation in my opinion. These cables are not being marketed on their form or function but rather BS claims.To put this in painting terms, the painting is claimed to have been painted using magical mystical crystals dipped in magical paint by a psychic claiming to be in-touch and guided by a famous long dead painter.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 02:29:11 pm
content: Quote from: blacksheeplogic on January 04, 2020, 07:37:37 amFunny you should mention that...https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7xznex/melissa-ann-lambert-aura-artist-mixed-media-paintings

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 04:10:12 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 03, 2020, 01:50:24 amAnd the most humble one, I'm sure.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2020, 04:12:45 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 03, 2020, 09:20:40 pmNo, I think in that particular context, the red/white/red is meant to depict a slice of bacon.Wonder who came up with the company name?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 02:02:28 am
content: Quote from: blacksheeplogic on January 04, 2020, 07:37:37 amWell there are various degrees of audiophoolery, some stuff just gives you a very questionable cost per real benefit ratio, other stuff is clearly bogus. There's the old saying though "A fool and his money are soon parted." Some people are just determined to spend their money, which I can't say really bothers me. If they don't waste it on one thing they'll waste it on something else, nobody forces anyone to buy into the mystical voodoo crap and anyone who does, I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 08:28:34 pm
content: QuoteWhen you buy, let's say, replacement tyres for you car, how do you determine which are the best ones? Me, I go for lowest price and expect to drift a lotbut if I were wanting to be really safe, how would I be able to evaluate the claims from the rival manufacturers?People in this forum are generally au fait with the subject covered by these audio claims, so we can figure it our by ourselves. However, Joe Public wouldn't likely have any deep knowledge at all - they would hopefully know that power flows from positive to negative, but many of these claims require knowledge that goes deeper than that.Further, they may even try the stuff out and find that it really does make a difference and they really can tell that scam product A has the expected result. It could happen to you in some other field. Maybe it would be nicer not to start with the victim-blaming.

author: unitedatoms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 09:19:28 pm
content: The tyres replacement is a mystery for me. I only know that I need winter tyres even if it is summer time, and that the cost very high, and that makes me to remember the fact that I even did anything with tyres (the fact of high cost). when expected cost is combined with cost of brake replacements it makes everything so complicated and beyond analysis, so I give up and trade the car for newer everything, with new tyres and brakes and windwasher liquid. So it gives me false hope that I solved all the maintenance problems.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2020, 09:46:31 pm
content: QuoteI think the TEA thread is that way --->

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2020, 04:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on January 05, 2020, 08:28:34 pmI read reviews from people who sound knowledgeable, it's usually not too hard to tell when someone knows what they're talking about. To some degree I also trust specifications because I buy tires made by reputable companies from reputable suppliers. Prior to the modern internet I used to look at tests done by Consumer Reports, they used to occasionally test things like tires and I always found their ratings to be pretty reliable.Lacking any such resources I would ignore the very cheapest options and the absurdly expensive options and explore the middle range using whatever information I could find.Tires are important and often overlooked. Crappy tires can put your car in a ditch, leave you stranded or worse. Trying to cut corners there is a false economy.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2020, 06:07:26 pm
content: QuoteThat there is basically saying that a scammer with the gift of the gab is going to rake it in. Which they do. The victim shouldn't be blamed for not being a polymath or a living lie detector.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2020, 01:38:59 am
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on January 06, 2020, 06:07:26 pmIt's going to take a whole lot more than one scammer. reviews are effective when you have a significant sample size to choose from, typically I focus most on the middle of the usually roughly bell curve of reviews, people who mention the good and the bad. Excessively positive reviews listing nothing negative are more likely to be fake or not based on a thorough test, excessively negative reviews tend to be people who bought the wrong product or do not understand how to use it, some complaining about the speed of shipping, the packaging, etc, those are easily ignored.Also like I said, I'm going to pretty much categorically ignore products that are hugely more expensive than comparable options unless I personally understand what justifies the high cost and know that I can benefit from it. I'm not even going to consider a $5000 set of tires for my car nor will I consider $1,000 audiophile speaker cables. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that.Often the victim absolutely deserves some of the blame for getting scammed. We all know scammers exist, learning to identify scams is an important life skill and I feel that falling for an obvious scam is a bit like stepping through the ice on a frozen lake or touching a downed powerline and getting electrocuted. Dangers are everywhere and to some degree we are all responsible for our own wellbeing. Some people on the other hand will always look for someone else to blame, they're the ones who will complain that there wasn't a sign or a railing or something to stop them from doing something stupid.

author: unknownparticle
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2020, 04:26:48 pm
content: Having been an audio enthusiast for many years, and also, importantly, a music lover, I can suggets one way to shut audiophool nonsense up, the blind listening test!I have a friend who is fortunate enough to be VERY rich, to the extent that spending £250K and more on audio is not an issue. I have always taken the piss out of him for this, saying that for an otherwise intelligent person he demonstrates all the intellectual ability of a single cell life formwhen it comes to audio.So, some years ago, I challenged him to the blind listening test, which, with some bullying from me he eventually agreed to, the phool!His UK home made the ideal location, as it had vast space and, a dedicated listening room. I rigged up my system, all bought used and costing a paltry £2k max, along with his collossus of a system, both behind screens! With 3 other friends as witnesses we went through a 10 track play list and all filled in comment forms indicating preferences and which system we thought was in play etc. The guy charged with playing the tracks stayed behind the screens and was to keep a record of what played on what when.The results were embarassing for my friend! Not once did he choose his own system as his preference, and actually made some insulting comments about it! The overall preference was for my system!This was a technique we used in a Hi-Fi shop I worked in at one time, when customers could not choose between items of equipment they were considering to buy. With the bias of make and model taken out of the equation, the choice was made easy, and often saved them alot of money!

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2020, 08:44:17 pm
content: A friend and I set up a blind listening test back in the 80s to compare a very highly respected and expensive preamp to my homemade IC-based unit. We found that even a small difference in volume was perceived as a difference in sound quality; and further, that neither of us could remember the essential qualities of a sound if more than a few seconds passed before comparing it to another. Once we got the levels matched, there was no difference. This same type of test has been repeated by many other people and it's very humbling when you realize your ears just aren't that good as measuring instruments; and being able to see which choice you're listening to totally botches your ability to discriminate accurately.I've done a huge number of comparisons between lossless and lossy audio encoding over the last few years, all automated by double-blind testing. Once a certain level of bit rate has been achieved using a quality encoder, it's essentially impossible for me to discriminate between them. And this is a situation where 80% to 90% of the audio has been discarded by the encoding process! I'm very critical of people who say they can easily hear differences between encoders as well as electronics - and generally, they won't submit to a fair listening test to prove their beliefs, so they get no slack from me.It's OK if people just want to buy audio jewelry and admit it to themselves; I'm just highly skeptical of any claims that one well-designed piece of audio gear is dramatically better than another. Except speakers, of course - there are so many variables between designs and room placement that we're still not even close to achieving transparency through the speakers in a typical room. Not even with DSP augmentation.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 03:27:22 am
content: I can certainly hear the difference between a CD and a 128kbs MP3 but there are definitely diminishing returns as you crank up the bitrate. Some types of music suffer much more from compression than others but again at some point I really can't hear the difference.I'm not going to claim that nobody can though, provided there's an actual difference that can be measured. I mean I can see flicker in lighting that some claim is impossible and apparently cannot see but it's flicker that I can easily measure and demonstrate with test gear, not super high frequency. Again there are diminishing returns, beyond several hundred Hz I can't detect the flicker anymore. Point is, some people's ears work better than mine, mine worked better when I was 17 than they do now. I used to be able to hear the horizontal whine of a 15kHz CRT from across the room and it was ear splitting in some. Now I can just barely perceive it if I put my ear right up to the housing.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 03:43:50 am
content: Quote from: GregDunn on January 07, 2020, 08:44:17 pmIn my experience, 192kbps seems to be the point where MP3 sounds "basically lossless", but it's highly content dependent. Some sound good with less and a few need more to not show audible flaws. (It depends on the "entropy" of the content - it obviously takes more bits to describe if it's complex.) I would say to go straight for 320kbps since storage is so cheap nowadays.BTW, I once bought a HDMI cable that claimed to make things look better. With my GTX 970 as the source, it worked no better than the "plain" cable I was using, but with a Raspberry Pi as the source, it actually did kind of work. That said, I don't think it's worth anywhere near the $120 list price - put that towards a better GPU instead. For the $15 or so I paid for it, it's at least worth the novelty factor.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 04:04:02 am
content: The quality of HDMI cables matters when you're pushing the limits, length, speed (resolution), interference, marginal quality source, sink or termination, etc. If you're using an average setup where all the equipment is reasonably compliant, the connectors are in good shape and cable lengths sensible you're not gonna see any difference. If all the bits are arriving intact that's as good as it's gonna get. When something is on the ragged edge a lower quality cable can push it over the edge.Quality is not tied directly to price though. Very cheap cables are likely to be crappy but very expensive cables are probably not much better than modestly priced decent stuff.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 04:45:11 am
content: One thing for sure to really piss off these goons, but they just swallow the insults or mockings, they knew it but unable to counter as its their native lingo, is to introduce new jargon words, but funny & definitely insulting ones.Rather using these goons favorite terms for example "brighter sound" , "lively" and etc , try start using words like "farty base" .. "wet fart smell nice middle" ... "spicy yet yucky treble" ... "shitty brown warm choco feel" ... etc, just let loose your imagination & creativity.It works every time.

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 08:05:57 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 08, 2020, 03:43:50 amThat's the case for me too. Some things are almost transparent at 128k, while others seem to need more bandwidth. The consensus seems to be that certain instruments like harpsichord and Latin percussion are the hardest to encode, while (ironically) much symphonic music is far less demanding. I picked the killer samples from my library and tested them at 256k, which is my default now. YMMV.It's not so much about the complexity as it is the ability of the encoder to select frequency bins and block size when capturing high frequency information; even a solo instrument with highly correlated harmonics can be tough to encode. E.g., the SiriusXM codec does OK on fairly busy rock music, but solo piano sounds horrible. It's dependent on how much masking is present in the ensemble of sounds, which can be leveraged to improve the perceived fidelity.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 11:09:50 am
content: I found that listening through headphones makes compression artifacts more noticeable.I have some really old mp3s like carrying them for like more than 20 years through generations of PCs, and it looks like along the way there were errors in the transfer so those mp3s suffering from more artifacts compared to newer ones of the same bitrate. Obviously less encoded or better yet, less dense formats are more bulletproof to errors IMO.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2020, 01:58:49 pm
content: As PT Barnum would say, a sucker is born every minute.I am also in agreement with the basic premise here, that once you reach a certain equipment quality level, any further cost increase will yield negligible to non existent improvements.Heck, in some instances it may make the sound worse!Having said this, to each its own.I happen to love vacuum tube audio, but I recognize it is pure nostalgia. And I don’t try to push my views to anyone.But the warm glow of tubes in a darkened room puts me in a mood that allows me to enjoy better certain types of music.So.......Everything is on your head!

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 01:28:04 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 08, 2020, 04:04:02 amThe cable I'm referring to has "active trickery" built in.https://www.marseilleinc.com/gaming-edition/

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: dzseki on January 08, 2020, 11:09:50 amThat seems very unlikely in my opinion. If you had transfer errors in these tightly compressed/encoded files, you would probably hear massive artefacts -- loud cracks, dropouts or such.If the more recently generated files just "sound better" than the 20-year-old ones, the more likely reason would be that the MP3 encoder you use today has an improved algorithm. So it can generate more faithful reproductions of the music with the same bitrate, compared to the old encoder.

author: dzseki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:31:38 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 09, 2020, 03:48:09 pmI definitely have pops in those mp3s and they were not there before...

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 10:04:28 am
content: Quote from: ThickPhilM on January 02, 2020, 09:54:22 pmThey can tie them just fine, but they would have to be laces that cost 100x normal laces and be directional...

author: ZaphodBeeblebrox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2020, 06:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: TomS_ on January 11, 2020, 10:04:28 amHowever, it becomes exceedingly difficult after those laces have been burnt in

author: Musclor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 09:14:16 am
content: He also reviewed a 1,000 dollar ethernet cable giving it a glowing review. He's obvioulsy a paid shill for these scam companies, or he's mentally ill (i don't use these words lightly).

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 09:33:56 am
content: I "discovered" that website after I saw a mention of "audiophile grade Ethernet" on Mikrotik's forum-So I did a search and I found a really insane world. I saw somewhere photos of an el-cheapo switch modified with an OCXO and an impressive signal integrity cabling!https://audiobacon.net/2018/09/28/the-linear-solution-ocxo-audiophile-switch-reference-ethernet-cable-the-missing-pieces-of-digital-audio/So these guys don't understand the difference between packet transmission with store and forward switches and sample based digital audio transmission systems such as AES/EBU or S/PDIF. Clock jitter and Ethernet!

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 11:26:54 am
content: Trying to find some words, but I fail.There honestly can't be people falling to this nonsense. What's next? "Audio grade room heating"? "Audio grade ambient lightning"?

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 12:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 05, 2020, 11:26:54 amWell, don't talk me about air conditioning currents hitting microphones(And that's not an audiofoolery problem!)

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 02:24:11 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 05, 2020, 11:26:54 amThat's already available. It's called disco light.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 05:36:11 pm
content: Here's an interesting piece of audiophoolery. It's a turntable. Cost? A mere $120,000. Even comes with an air compressor for the air bearings.https://walkeraudio.com/proscenium-black-diamond-v/I'm sure this ugly lump of metal and wood renders every click and pop with exacting precision...

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2020, 07:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on February 05, 2020, 05:36:11 pmI'd be surprised if they can hear anything over the noise of the compressor and the air hissing out from whatever bearing they're using it for.Every time I see something like this it makes me think of a line from B5, Security Chief Zack Allen saying "There's a thousand full moons out there beaming bozo rays into everyone's skulls" (paraphrasing a bit).

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 05:39:22 pm
content: Oh, it says they generously give you 100 feet of air hose, so the compressor can live in another room.What strikes me the most is the main improvement they cite over the previous model - the previous model used an oil lube air compressor! And no matter how good a trap you have in the air supply, some oil mist always gets through from those types of compressors. So I can only imagine what their lovely work of art, let alone your records, looked like after much use.As for the price - there are precision air bearing machine tools with a lot more complex electronics than a simple phono cartridge that cost less. And have better than their stated accuracy in 3 dimensions, not just on one axis.I'm rejecting this though, because of the formed crushed marble housings. I want my housings to be machined from a solid piece of marble, not sintered back together from bits of finely crushed marble. For that reason, I would never buy this.Edit: I see they are somewhat local to me. So I looked it up. It's run out of some guy's house! And if that's all the house he can afford, and those are the cars he drives - he's doing the audiophool game wrong. Or those 5 customer comments are the only 5 customers he's ever had.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 06:17:53 pm
content: QuoteBut does he live there? I bought my car from a dealer who operated from a (very rundown) house. Apparently, it was cheaper to purchase a house and use it for the business than build or rent a commercial car lot. Apart from the bazillion cars shoved into every corner of the garden, you'd think it was a domestic property (and maybe the council did when it came to business taxes too).

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 08:47:58 pm
content: I'd have to check zoning on that, but they are pretty picky around here, if it's Residential, you can do a small home based business without much pushback, but you have ot live there, or rent it out. You can't just buy a house in a residential neighborhood and make it a business office. If it's dual use (and seeing as how the whole street, and all the surrounding blocks, are all single family homes, I really doubt it) then you would be allowed to use the property as a business. with no problems.The aerial view and the street view are done at two different times, but both show the same cars (on Bing Maps anyway) - on the aerial view, on is just entering or leaving the driveway, when the camera car drove past, both were sitting in the driveway. Google doesn't have a street view of that road. Satellite view shows one of the same cars in the driveway.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 10:48:00 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 03, 2020, 06:54:26 amBut you’re talking about high quality legitimate product, right? Not $1000/m audiophool IEC power leads.All of us here respect quality. We just reject the scammy audiophoolery.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2020, 11:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 06, 2020, 05:39:22 pmDoes it mater in the slightest? You'd be hard pressed to find any bearing that is so out whack to come even close to compare with the vinyl record themselves which, more often than not, have so much twist and runout that it's a wonder that the concept even works.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2020, 01:20:46 pm
content: The player looks nice. Not that I would buy it, or assume it would be any better than my Technics player, but that just seems like some over-the-top construction. Thumbs up for the idea, the construction and the build quality.He do however sells some true phoolery stuff, too:https://walkeraudio.com/product/black-diamond-room-treatment-crystals/Brassy thingies to be placed in your room to enhance sound. "You can expect dramatically improved focus and a greater sense of realism and dimension in the soundstage as the walls and ceiling seem to open up."I'm not sure, if I could believe that claim

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2020, 05:46:52 pm
content: And the demagnetizer for CDs and LPs!

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 06:18:04 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2020, 05:46:52 pmI'll have you know that that demagnitizer realigns the chaotic electron spins in the quantum structure of the substrate material of LPs and CDs. This opens up the soundstage, imparts subtle, but obvious improvements to the midrange, and cleans up phasing errors and realigns the timebase. The differences are like night and day.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 06:41:46 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2020, 05:46:52 pmThat worksas wellfor iPods... !

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2020, 07:57:46 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on February 10, 2020, 06:41:46 pmI just wouldn't recommend it for any of the hard disk-based iPods!

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 09:41:00 pm
content: OH, they are even MORE critical to use there, to keep all your bits perfectly lined up so that they flow with the least jostling in a smooth path from the disk and down the wires to your ears! Like eliminating the turbulence from airflow or a flowing stream.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2020, 10:43:32 pm
content: The original iPod shipped with a Burr-Brown DAC. I wonder what color paint marker the audiophiles used to paint over the BB logo to eliminate the muddy coloration the Burr-Brown name surely imparted to the sound!

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2020, 09:02:15 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on February 11, 2020, 09:41:00 pmEasily the smoothest and most detailed sound reproduction to date, and that is saying a great deal. Music of all types sounded natural, transients were crisp, string tone was superb and the bass was full and solid. Stereo imaging precise and stable; and distortion remarkably low. I feel certain we have a winner here.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2020, 01:04:20 am
content: Quote from: tooki on February 11, 2020, 10:43:32 pmI'm under the impression that brand was a favorite for many audiophiles. Sadly (from what I remember), the coupling caps let it down with poor frequency response. Some later iPods were better in that respect.