Equipment Advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2012, 10:38:40 pm
content: I've currently got about £280 to spend, and want to get some new equipment. I need to keep about £50 for a project I'm currently working on, but the rest can be spent on equipment. I'm in the UK, so it's including 20% VAT unfortunately. I could do with a DMM and a soldering iron. The Hakko FX-888 looks nice except only dancap sell it, and they want check or bank transfer, rs-online also sell it, for a ridiculous price. Are there any other good value irons? I also need a new DMM and the Agilent U1242B looks so nice except that leaves me £30 for a soldering iron, which is just a bit littleWould it be worth going for that meter and saving for the iron in the long run? I also need a 'scope, but that's a different story.I have watched Dave's DMM videos, and the EX330 looks good for a cheapish multimeter, however I'd rather have to save a bit for it and have it last, than get something NAOW and have it break, or become inaccurate. I'd appreciated your opinions,Thanks.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 01:34:39 am
content: You can find the FX-888 at other sources in the UK.Took a quick look at Hakko's world site and it came up with both dancap and Grosvenor (http://www.grosvenor-group.com/products.php?level=36). RS (uk.rs-online.com) has a listing as well. It's currently stated that it's on backorder, but also gives a date it will be available (16th of Jan, 2012; 135GBP btw).As per meters, you'll want more than one anyway, so you can start with the EX330 and get a better one if you wish later (you'd be better off not to skimp on the iron, and get the Hakko or another decent used unit on eBay.co.uk).

author: Chet T16
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 02:09:56 am
content: I have this and really can't fault it (bought from these too)http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/atten-at938d-professional-60w-soldering-station.html

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 03:23:58 am
content: The EX330 is a good meter overall, but it lacks accuracy for the number of counts it has. One of the most annoying things is the lack of decimals in the temperature measurement mode. If you are replacing one of those little square chinese multimeters, then it is a good choice. You may also want to consider the Amprobe AM-220, the one that finished second place in the shoutout. I also have that one. It is more flexible. For example, it has a max/min mode in addition to the relative mode. max/min is used to measure the minimum or maximum value read by the multimeter since you set that mode. It can also measure the frequency and duty cycle while in the AC volts mode. None of them are true-rms. The Amprobe has better fuses, but the battery is harder to replace. The Extech comes with a non-contact voltage probe, just make sure you don't move it if you open the meter because the performance won't be the same. The capacitance range on the Extech goes an order of magnitude lower then the Amprobe which goes an order of magnitude higher then the Extech. Both come with these cheap and super light batteries, but they have lasted quite a lot. The Amprobe is a bit more accurate.I think I got meters with calibrations on opposite sides: one reads on the high side and the other reads on the low side. Ironically my cheap chinese meter is in the middle.

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 11:22:57 am
content: I already have a small crappy iron and meter so it isn't just getting such things. I think one of the main advantages of the hakko generally is cost, however you seem to lose that advantage entirely in the UK. Even grosvenor doesn't look easy to order from, and rs is overpriced. Are there any good alternatives? I did hear ERSA were a good brand and there RDS 80 looks nice enough, but I can't find anyone else with it. As for the meter, the reason I was looking at more expensive ones is because I would prefer to spend more for better, "buy once buy well". It just means I can't have it all at once, and since I'm planning to move to SMD and reflow with a hotplate, my iron isn't so massively important, my current iron is good enough for through-hole parts with leaded solder from my experience, although I know a better iron will feel massively better. I hope this explains my situation a bit better.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: ben1066 on January 13, 2012, 10:38:40 pmA cheap crappy meter will do most of what an expensive meter will do, likewise a cheap crappy soldering iron.In terms of being able to do the most with a limited budget I would spend most of it on a cheap scope.

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:22:41 pm
content: A cheap scope is considerably over the amount I can spend currently. Even the Rigol is over my budget

author: vtl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 12:35:01 pm
content: Well it probably comes down to what you use the most. If you use your multimeter everyday then its certainly worth getting a good one since its getting so much use. Also the cheap multimeters you lose out on some nice features compared to a decent $100 meter. If the Agilent is too expensive I suggest looking around for a used Fluke 87III, which goes for about 150$ USD on eBay. You'll miss out on the AC low pass filter, temperature sense and you get lower capacitance range. Although I think capacitance range is overrated, they almost never work in-circuit (must be removed) and can give wrong readings because you can't change the test frequency. My friend's Fluke 28II did not read a 240V mains cap properly (LCR meter confirmed).While the Hakko FX888 is great I think its fine buying a Hakko 936 knockoff on eBay, performance is excellent, a soldering iron is a pretty simple device after all (should be under 50 USD). Theres a review for one here on the forums. I'd rather have a high end multimeter than a high end soldering iron.Regarding a scope, I think getting one greatly depends on your geographical location. In Australia, scopes go for more money than you'd expect (even crappy 1960s ones) but sometimes you get lucky if you wait for ages. You'll probably have to take a punt on a broken scope and fix it up.I'm sure some people will disagree with what I said about the soldering iron but hey thats my 2 cents

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 01:00:06 pm
content: The Atten 938D mentioned before seems decent for the cost, I might go with that. I know you don't get the nice touches as you do with the real Hakko models, but they cost about 2x what they are worth here, you can almost buy a weller for a similar price. But in my opinion it is too much for the amount I use it.My multimeter is definitely used most, and will be used more soon since I'm trying to build a power efficient circuit so the micro amp range will be important, something I currently can't do. On eBay fluke 87s aren't really that cheap, even used, I can find one for about £150 used, no probes, no fuse, by the time that's added it's £30 off the mentioned Agilent.Has anyone tried the Agilent meter? There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of information on it unfortunately. I've seen the review of the older but higher model U1252A and it seems to work well, except for the continuity test. Does the U1241B suffer from the same issue? Also what is the battery life like?The Amprobe AM-220 is a nice cost, and if I get a better meter, I'll probably get it as a second. I would really like a scope as I do need it sometimes, but I don't think it's enough to warrant the cost against other equipment, and if I get any scope I think it'll have to be a DSO as most things I need to check are for example clock rates, or power stability, sometimes also rise time.I try to somewhat avoid used equipment unless it has been calibrated, the last thing I want is my test equipment to be off, then everything you do also is. Another reason I don't mind spending that bit more to get something I can trust. It's not like a mistake will cost me lots, but perhaps another set of PCBs and parts if it's enough of an error. Enough to make it annoying.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 01:24:50 pm
content: Calibration is overrated for hobbyists in my opinion, especially when on a limited budget. You can usually do a rudimentary performance check on most basic instruments like scopes and multimeters with limited means. This is especially true for an analog scope which was maybe 2% accurate fresh out of cal. A typical crystal oscillator will easily be accurate enough to check horizontal timing, especially if your DMM can measure the frequency to double check. Vertical attenuation can be checked with a variable power supply or even batteries. Accuracy is rarely critical for most circuits. A 5 V power supply with 1 V ripple is likely faulty, one with 10 mV ripple will be fine for most applications. Even if the 1 V happens to be 0.8 V or the 10 mV may be 20 mV.Good (eg. HP) equipment doesn't drift much, it's not unheard of to have equipment that was last calibrated for over thirty years to still perform very close to factory spec. Of course there is always the risk of hidden defects, but if the price is low enough, the risk can be worth it.

author: vtl
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 01:27:40 pm
content: Quote from: ben1066 on January 14, 2012, 01:00:06 pmDoes the US ship to UK? Just last week there was a really nice looking Fluke 87 III which went for around 150 plus ~15 shipping. It's a bit dry at the moment, but usually you need to play the waiting game for used equipment. Just set up the eBay email alerts so you don't miss anything good.The Agilent meters are reasonably new. I think they only changed to the hi-vis orange colour scheme last year so don't expect too many reviews.

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2012, 01:56:09 pm
content: Depends on the supplier, some do some don't. But it's a bit of a pain with expensive items, you get charged import VAT and tax, so it puts the price up by 20+ % !