What to do, Disrespectful Graduate Student... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:12:52 pm
content: I'm a bit miffed, and undecided. That is unusual, for me as I've worked for various universities for more then a decade.Today I gave a three minute talk about an instrument under development to a consortium of five major companies that fund us, four professors, and ~30 grad students. During my talk, one of the students burst out in laughter, and started telling the students around him my project could have never possibly worked, and never achieved the resolution it did. Detecting picolitre quantities of water using capacitance sensing is difficult, but I'm not the first to do it. I specifically said, picoliter resolution, most likely probably nanoliters in real world applications with background noise...So he started the jokes with the five students setting around him, when funding was on the line. I had one minute of solid laughter to talk over...I had a chat with him, as the meeting broke up. Not saying anything about the breach of discipline, but proving my work had been reviewed by peers off campus. As well as going into a few technical details about the Impedance Spectroscopy related to the project..This was in earshot of the corporate sponsors... So I proved my case... My PhD boss had reviewed the poster and the theory..I'm just the senior technician, but I'm royally mad that he did it in front of the funding consortium representatives. Many of whom have known me for years.I spend much of my time mentoring students on presentation skills. I know what the norm is.This one is consistently a cut-up, and rarely spends time in the lab. You can usually find him in one of the machine shops, yakking... No one ever says anything to him about his mouth. I'm twenty years his senior.I don't normally expect people to defer to me because of my age, or my experience. But I do expect proper conduct when we have visitors.. I can probably undo the damage with the consortium, at the poster session..So End RantEx...Question, assuming I've given you an accurate depiction of the facts, would you?A. Let this pass, he'll be gone soon, and his first employer can straighten him out.B. Invoke the Collegiality rules and send him to the Dean, or at least his Professor... Probably helping him finally realize that Grad Level Engineering is a serious business. (He does get a full stipend, and thus is an employee.)C. Wait till after the poster session tomorrow, pull him aside and have a chat with him about Respect.Criticism welcome, I learn new words that way...Steve

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:20:41 pm
content: D. Invoke hindsight and realise that I should have addressed his doubt during the presentation by inviting him and others to an extended discussion wherein you can give details in support for claims made and discuss the research in more detail than is possible during a 3 minute synopsis.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:23:55 pm
content: I wanted to do that, but the moderator called "Time" as the VIPs were to be transported to Dinner.. That is why I'm miffed... 3 Minute rule was strictly enforced.Steve

author: SteveLy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:31:18 pm
content: You have been criticised & mocked by one of your peers. The criticism is fair game, that's how science is done. The mockery is immature.Find out why this rude person disagrees with you and in your next talk address the issues one by one. Maybe give a special presentation doing just that. It will make your argument a lot stronger. Obviously as it stands questions remain, otherwise the rude guy would not have had much of an audience. The unpleasantness during your last talk might turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Also ask him to raise his concerns in a civil manner next time.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2015, 11:42:57 pm
content: Invite the individual to a meeting to discuss his/her concerns in a structured way. But also invite a freshman medical student in order to be able to administer the ceremonial ripping of the second arsehole for when the first scenario fails to end constructively.If that is the way the idiot behaved, s/he will not survive well in work. Needs bringing down a peg or ten.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 12:32:58 am
content: As Wilfred said.Most likely the corporate sponsors present thought the guy was an asshole for behaving so rudely. Probably there are now at least five companies where said individual is unlikely to gain employment in the future.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 12:50:35 am
content: BeeeeeeeeeeBut first find out if/how and to whom he is connected to so you don't end up with a horse's head in your bed.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 01:38:46 am
content: I would have simply apologized for the noise and continued with the presentation. After the presentation, I would go to whoever you work for and tell him that this fool is trying to derail our funding and he should do something about it so we all get to keep our jobs.One thing's for sure. He burned a whole room full of bridges. Even if he was 100% right, there is no one in that room that will ever forget the loose cannon that's bad for business.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:00:44 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on October 23, 2015, 01:38:46 amGood Answer I don't know I could have been so easy on the guy.I think I would have asked him and his friends be ejected from the hall.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:11:53 am
content: Quote from: IanB on October 23, 2015, 12:32:58 amYep, this.Criticism is fine, but you don't interrupt a designated 3 minute talk, you bite your tongue. What a dick.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:30:23 am
content: Man, I feel like such a neanderthal amongst you all. I wasn't even halfway through your post and I said aloud, "I'd just take him aside and beat the shit out of him." Nothing gets your point across like a full body tackle and whatever follows.But then you'd have to worry about losing your job, etc etc. I know, how uncivilized. But, you have to admit, it would feel good and just.For a more typical approach for somebody in your position: can you get him transferred to your charge, and just ride him hard and make his work life miserable, providing him every opportunity to shine (read opportunity to fall on his face)? We have a saying amongst supervisors here, "Start the paper trail early on, and document everything." referring to the process to give somebody the boot.Bottom line, he disrespected you on a personal level. Chivalry and the high road are for suckers.Edit: I do realize violence is not an option for you. That may not be apparently clear, but I do. It's just what little jerks like that deserve, and typically all they truly understand.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:06:41 am
content: Quote from: unitedatoms on October 23, 2015, 02:44:28 amThere are masochists everywhere.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:52:57 am
content: Academia....

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 05:06:07 am
content: Let the results of your project do the talking for you. Otherwise he is one of the many out there in our field that have a psychological complex. Pay him no mind. He is probably one of those types who tells others how bad their work is but never produces anything of substance themselves. Very common. They are always miserable because they look down on everybody else and curse their misfortune in their life situation .

author: bigdawg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 06:28:12 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 22, 2015, 11:12:52 pmI have had my share of impertinent grad students in my career too and the sad thing is many of these folks automatically assume they know better than anyone else just because they are Dr. or studying to be one. I have let it slide on most occasions because my feeling is that these kids dont know any better, and atleast in my field, there are dime a dozen phds with little or no experience whereas there is a very limited supply of experienced Research techs; and everyone who has worked enough in labs treats them with high degree of respect. Some days, I wish I had stayed in engineering after my B.S. since I feel like in those depts, M.S. is more of a terminal degree and no one looks down on that like some do in physical sci depts.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 06:39:04 am
content: Have pity on the poor fellow. If he goes through his entire life unable to keep his big mouth shut at appropriate moments, it must be a very sad existence.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:36:26 am
content: You're American. Shoot him.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:37:52 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on October 22, 2015, 11:12:52 pmIf I understand right, you are many years in that environment, and many externals were hearing your speach.You surely know some better than others, to the level of "trusted"Ask one of those guys to send awritten complaintto your organisation, including a description of the guy's behavour, the way it disturbed everyone's time,and expecting a better screening of attendees next time.And in the mean time, just sit and wait.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:38:44 am
content: I would at least tell his professor what occurred. Not sure which dept. will suffer if the sponsors back out but they too ought to know what occurred. Not from revenge but informational.Anyway what does trigger me is that you already noticed him, you describe his behaviour the last year or so, so maybe you already had an allergy against him? that is normal btw. No single working human being can like all other human beings.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:40:28 am
content: Quote from: unitedatoms on October 23, 2015, 02:44:28 amSales isn't better: too many stupid people trying to sell something too hard...Sports? too many strong people trying to get the finish line too hard...

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 07:45:49 am
content: Quote from: John Coloccia on October 23, 2015, 01:38:46 amReminds me of a Godfather/Sopranos scene where the Boss apologises for the rude behavour of somebody who "spoke without being spoken to".

author: GNU_Ninja
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 08:07:51 am
content: That graduate student is a pillock. One of the first things I learned at university was;Always stay on good terms with the technical support staff. That disrespectful attitude will come back to bite him in the ass with interest the next time he needs to requisition some lab equipment or whatnot. Mark my words

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 08:13:43 am
content: Quote from: GNU_Ninja on October 23, 2015, 08:07:51 amIsn't that a beautiful term.....pillock.+1

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 09:26:42 am
content: I think universities give too much credit for knowledge, and too little to basic behavior problems. There should be some bar, which you need to pass, if you want to become an engineer, behaving like an engineer should be one of them.I saw and see too many people who graduated, and were complete morons or clowns. They dont deserve to be an engineer.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 11:02:06 am
content: In an ideal world you'd talk to the kid informally, he'd have respect for age and experience and realize he was in the wrong and say sorry and learn something. Realistically it's just going to create drama which will detract from work and accomplish little.Was his professor there? If so I'd ask him nicely to do his job, he is the one who should be educating the kid.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 11:29:45 am
content: Yep, go and have a chat to the professors, I am certain that the student's unprofessional behaviour in front of representatives of a funding body has not gone unnoticed.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 10:06:00 pm
content: I would have chosen option B, let the college staff deal with the problem. As others have pointed out the way you dealt with the problem and defended your position will probably be remembered by others in the room for all the right reasons.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 12:11:23 am
content: I had one of those types in my class before for two years this guy would mock everyone. Especially the girls as he thought girls could not be EE engineers. Well one day he made a huge mistake in mocking me in class. His problem was taken care of by a good and true method of an American ass whooping! Never again did he ever mock anyone in any class. I am not condoning violence but sometimes it is the only thing these cowards are able to understand.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 12:28:25 am
content: Quote from: Docholiday on October 24, 2015, 12:11:23 amI generally don't condone violence, but maybe it is appropriate in a situation like this. The individual involved sounds like a bully, with words rather than physicality his chosen weapons. Bullies thrive and continue to act as they do because they don't encounter consequences to their actions. A beating might actually be better for the student than some of the other possible consequences. Loss of his position. Dismissal from school. Blacklisting in the employment field.It also makes you wish that he encountered his comeuppance earlier in life when the consequences would be smaller for him, and when he had more time to benefit from being a better person.

author: JacquesBBB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 01:49:57 am
content: I would have a discussion with his phd advisor. This is not a proper attitude in a meeting. He should have waited and ask question to you, audible to the full audience and let you the possibility to answer. Doing in a different manner is not proper scientific attitude, and he should be reminded accordingly as part of his phd training.Ask him how he would react if someone would do the same thing to him during his phd defense.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 02:02:58 am
content: Steve,Keep your head held high, keep doing good work, and let Karma take it's course. PhD advisors can make life really miserable for a grad student, so maybe he/she will intervene on your behalf.