Any bibles out there on low noise measurement techniques? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 10:09:47 am
content: I'm kind of on the hunt for some good reading on best low noise measurement practices for when you're really down in the weeds looking for stuff. I've come across all sorts of tips and tricks over the years from around the web, stuff in data sheets, stuff I've just worked out for myself etc but I always wonder if there's some kind of reference already out there that lays things out concisely because I've really been chasing my tail on a couple things lately.I guess I'm talking about dealing with anything and everything from RFI, to common mode noise, to ground loops, to shielding test setups, to low noise amplifiers for testing low noise amplifiers, and so on... you get the drift. I keep thinking it's gonna be in a Bob Pease or Jim Williams book somewhere but I haven't found a full on deep dive into this stuff anywhere so far.

author: Theboel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 10:24:02 am
content: not sure if this in Bible level but I need a month just to read ithttps://download.tek.com/document/LowLevelHandbook_7Ed.pdf

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 10:30:14 am
content: Quote from: Theboel on October 10, 2022, 10:24:02 amJust found this months bed time stories, thanks!

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 11:31:13 am
content: That's been the bible for many years, under the Tek name now, since they own Keithley. There are certainly good Jim Williams articles/appnotes on the matter, but the info is a bit scattered. No matter, as you should read all of them anyway! Ditto on Bob Pease; I think the best is his bookTroubleshooting Analog Circuits, though a bit pricey. Though I don't think he addresses the matter directly, the Ott books on noise and EMI explain a lot and are essential on any good ee's shelf.Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systemsis, IMO, the best, and can often be found used.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 11:44:47 am
content: Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on October 10, 2022, 11:31:13 amSidenote- I've spent a bit of time reading your articles over the years too!

author: precaud
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 12:38:10 pm
content: In an engineering context, there's gotta be a better word to use than 'bible', a book of fiction and hearsay...

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 01:52:01 pm
content: The word "bible" means book: the etymology goes back to the Phoenician city Byblos which manufactured papyrus.The original meaning persists in words such as "bibliography", a secular term.The Holy Bible is a book of scripture. In English, it is capitalized.In modern dictionaries, the fourth (or so) definition of "bible" is "a publication that is preeminent especially in authoritativeness or wide readership".

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 02:17:42 pm
content: as for the bible.. you can start compiling them by googling "low noise measurement" or "technique... one of them such ashttps://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/an101f.pdfin general you need nV/div oscilloscope or a spectrum analyzer as the above video told you...

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 03:22:00 pm
content: Somewhere I have a book titled Electrical Catechism or similar. Rather than bible, we could have The Catechism of Low Noise Measurements!https://openlibrary.org/books/OL6987675M/New_catechism_of_electricity

author: Sengcid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 08:55:03 pm
content: Hello,You can find theoretical stuff on noise and practical tips (twisted and coax pairs, star points and avoidance of earth loops) in a collection of monographs via the link: -https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1TbomXeoBbIe-IVADaOOmyyLH9le-3wAtAttached are the contents with relevant bits highlighted plus a few choice bits.I also have paper copies of the following: -Radeka, V.: “The field-effect transistor – its characteristics and applications”. IEEE Transactions on nuclear science, NS-11 (June 1964). pp. 358-364.Radeka, V.: “Field-effect transistor noise as a function of temperature and frequency”. National Academy of Sciences Gatlinburg conference (1967). Semiconductor Nuclear P. Detectors and Circuits. pp. 393-401.Van Der Ziel, A.: “Thermal noise in field-effect transistors”. Proc. IRE, 50 (1962). pp.1808-1812.Chris

author: Atomillo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 08:10:47 am
content: Quote from: Sengcid on October 14, 2022, 08:55:03 pmI'm unaware of your own personal opinions regarding how ethical is the current scientific publishing scene, but if you don't mind breaking copyright you can pretty reliably use SciHub for matters like this.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 09:14:59 am
content: From my library:Keithley, Low Level Measurements Handbook - Precision DC Current, Voltage, and Resistance Measurements, 7th Edition. Cleveland, OH: Keithley - A Tektronix Company, 2016.H. W. Ott, Noise reduction techniques in electronic systems, 2nd ed. New York: Wiley, 1988. 978-0-471-85068-7H. W. Ott, Electromagnetic compatibility engineering. Hoboken, N.J: John Wiley & Sons, 2009. 978-0-470-18930-6C. D. Motchenbacher and F. C. Fitchen, Low-noise electronic design. New York: Wiley, 1973. 978-0-471-61950-5C. D. Motchenbacher, J. A. Connelly, and C. D. Motchenbacher, Low-noise electronic system design. New York: Wiley, 1993. 978-0-471-57742-3T. H. Wilmshurst, Signal recovery from noise in electronic instrumentation. Bristol ; Boston: A. Hilger, 1985. 978-0-85274-783-4R. F. McDonald, P. J. Edwards, and W. N. Cheung, ‘Shot Noise-Suppressed Operation of Bipolar Junction Transistors’, in Unsolved problems of noise and fluctuations, Adelaide, Australia, 2000, pp. 79–84. . Available:http://www.sws.bom.gov.au/IPSHosted/NCRS/wars/wars2000/commd/mcdonald.pdf(the last one is a bit of an oddball bonus)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 09:50:44 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on October 15, 2022, 09:14:59 amOoh! That name takes me back a few decades

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2022, 01:58:24 pm
content: The two books listed above by Motchenbacher are essential.The 1993 edition is good for using Spice to calculate noise; the 1973 edition has a Fortran program listing for the same purpose, but Spice is far easier.

author: Sengcid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2022, 06:50:44 pm
content: For accurate and sensitive measurements it is essential to apply good EMC practice. The book by Ott is excellent; however, he criticises the sloppy use of the earth symbol in circuit diagrams but proceeds to do the same.More appropriate for the novice as is the free internet resource “EMC Standards”: -Colleagues hunting nanovolt level resolution/accuracy may also find the attached interesting.

author: MK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2022, 07:46:36 am
content: Quote from: nfmax on October 15, 2022, 09:14:59 am

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2022, 09:11:28 am
content: Quote from: MK on October 19, 2022, 07:46:36 amIf there's anything worse than noise, it's link rot

author: Sengcid
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2022, 06:44:19 pm
content: Circuit diagrams for some ASL resistance thermometry bridges can be found via the link: -https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1iP1y5qsarMN89gggmoAjWQzmWa530XUVThere are many gaps remaining. Any help welcome. I can provide word docs for editing/adding comments.Also, does anyone have info on the current noise for Interfet low noise JFETs?Herewith a sample - the F25.