drool, the tool kit on the ISS - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:16:07 am
content: Via Tim Peake @astro_timpeake.http://www.flickr.com/photos/timpeake/sets/72157634315750824/betting mostly titanium too, had small titanium working MRI, light and strong best kit I ever had

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:38:28 am
content: No multimeter or scope?

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:44:58 am
content: What! no woodworking tools?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 09:20:22 am
content: More likely to be off the shelf these days as with the Russians doing all the shifting and humping there is not so much weight problems and once up there it really dose not matter what a spanner weighs. certainly all those sockets looked like chrome plated. Nice tool box though but I don't see how they drain the sump in zero gravity after undoing the sump plug with one of those sump keys in the bottom right of the socket draw

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 11:22:13 am
content: Needs a bigger hammer....Can you imagine how the station would 'twang' if you hit it ?

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 11:46:43 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 25, 2013, 11:22:13 am"in space no one can hear your scream" - old favorite

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 12:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on June 25, 2013, 08:38:28 amThat raises the question - what test gear do they use on the ISS?If any?I can't imagine they would even have a need for circuit level repair or soldering?

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 12:36:26 pm
content: P.S. I mentioned non magnetic MRI safe tools - check the prices !http://www.universalmedicalinc.com/Non-Magnetic-Tools-s/171.htm

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 12:47:28 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on June 25, 2013, 08:38:28 amNot having a basic multimeter would be a huge fail IMO. You just never know and being able to test for power, voltage across a switch etc would be priceless if SHTF.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 25, 2013, 12:24:30 pmWhy? carrying spare assemblies would be a lot of weight, so the ability to diagnose and repair at component level would be essential.

author: WBB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:26:31 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 25, 2013, 11:22:13 amI can't imagine the procedure one would have to go through in order to get permission to use a hammer on the thing.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:37:37 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 25, 2013, 01:01:42 pmI'm not sure, but that would require spare parts, tools, some chemicals (conformal coating), a way of dealing with fumes (from soldering and the chemicals) and someone with the knowdledge how to fix those electronics. That adds weight too and requires storage space. Does soldering work without gravity? Your drop of flux went that way :-) (ok, gel type flux fixes that) My best guess would be that they got tools for wiring, wire, connectors and a DMM, more like a sparky than an electronics repair shop.BTW: Where's the duct tape?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:40:12 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 25, 2013, 01:01:42 pmYeah, but who's got the skill to do it?I suspect everything up there would be a redundant system anyway, and spares would be the only option. I doubt they would have the tools, talent, or time to dick around troubleshooting any product to component level.Does soldering in zero g even work? I think they might have some problems...Checking Google...It seems it does strange stuff:http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2004/16aug_solder/Given that they only decided to seriously experiment with soldering in space in 2004 (some done before that mixed results), I'd say it's safe to assume that soldering and hence electronic component level troubleshooting and repair is not even contemplated on the ISS.I would be surprised if they don't have a multimeter to measure system level stuff though.A scope would be unlikely I think.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:44:33 pm
content: Fluke claim to have flown on the shuttle:http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/community/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/rd/25-years+of+dmms.htmThese multimeter pressure modules are used on the space shuttle and ISS they claim:http://www.transcat.com/PDF/crystal.pdf

author: N TYPE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:51:24 pm
content: Imagine if they socketed every component to get around the problem of soldering...Board needs re-capping? No Worries! O0

author: calmtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 01:51:45 pm
content: They seem to have had an Rohde & Schwarz FSH3 speccy onboard as well:Glossy marketing brochure with pictures from ISS

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 02:09:38 pm
content: historical nasa footage of component level trouble shooting in space:

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 02:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 25, 2013, 01:40:12 pmRepair is easy - diagnosis is the hard part, and that can be done with remote expertise on the ground.QuoteBear in mind there will be a lot of stuff there that is not mission or safety critical, like all the experiments etc. that the whole thing was actually built for.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 02:15:23 pm
content: Holly shit, i'd actually bu some of these!http://www.universalmedicalinc.com/Titanium-Phillips-Screwdriver-p/71726-umi.htm

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 02:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on June 25, 2013, 02:15:23 pmmail some to dave and he will do a magnetic mine teardown tuesday

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 05:54:54 pm
content: They have a soldering iron, seen it on the videos being used. Must have a DMM as well, most likely a Fluke as well, and the duct tape is not an optional extra either, leak sealer, hold downs, getting space suits to fit, fixing worn gloves, emergency hole fix kit and such. AFAIK the emergency hole kit is a set of adhesive rubber patches and a lot of training on doing it fast. If it is so big it does not fit then you are dead anyway. Remember a lot of the walls are not much thicker than 1.2mm alloy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 06:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 25, 2013, 11:22:13 amDon't ever let me near the ISS!However I doubt a soldering iron will do much good. Most of the critical circuits are build using ultrasonic bonding:Further they seem to use consumer grade laptops and guitars:

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 07:08:16 pm
content: I think you'd have a hard time finding an outer space grade guitar.The laptops are probably high-reliability business grade.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 08:36:32 pm
content: Looks like they have a scopemeter, and they had trouble charging the one belonging to the Russians.http://search.nasa.gov/search/search.jsp?nasaInclude=scopemeter&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&ud=1&site=nasa_collection&client=nasa_production&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&simple_start=&news_start=&images_start=&videos_start=&podcasts_start=&baynoteOrGSA=baynote

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2013, 09:58:53 pm
content: Here is an interesting snippet.Fromhttp://www.sae.org/aeromag/features/spacestation/interesting bit below.Diagnostic tools will be primarily used to perform fault isolation. Crew members will remove a defective ORU, carry it to the MWA, open it up, and use the diagnostic equipment to pinpoint the faulty component. Once identified, the component will be replaced, and the diagnostic equipment is again used to determine if the repair was successful. For situations in which the ORU cannot be removed, the diagnostic tools can be carried to the unit for maintenance.EVAs are performed outside the station using special tools, tethers, and aids.One such diagnostic tool is a scopemeter, which is a combination of a multimeter and oscilloscope manufactured by the Fluke Co. It can be used to measure voltage, current, and resistance to detect, digitize, store, and display waveforms with frequencies up to 100 MHz. Using special probes, it can also measure temperature and pressure. The scopemeter features a liquid crystal display and is powered by a rechargeable power pack. This tool was shipped to ISS during flight 2R in October 2000. Another one will be sent up on assembly flight 6A in April.Another piece of equipment to be hauled on flight 6A is a pin kit, which is housed in a Nomex pouch and has some of the same components as the one used by the Space Shuttle crew. Items unique to the ISS pin kit include prefabricated jumper/test cables, materials for manufacturing custom jumper cables, alligator clips, and assorted fuses.ISS crews also use a logic analyzer, which consists of a portable computer, a portable computer memory card international adapter (PCMCIA), and LabVIEW software. The PCMCIA card has numerous probes to allow the computer to monitor several different points in a circuit or several circuits simultaneously. The logic analyzer application software is designed to monitor the logical state ("1" or "0"; high or low, etc.) of particular points within a circuit or electronic component.A function/sweep generator produces standard waveforms - sine, saw-tooth, and square - to diagnose electronic circuits and perform fault isolation. Generally, this tool is used to inject a known reference signal (wave) into a circuit; the output of the circuit is monitored with the scopemeter or the logic analyzer. The function/sweep generator used onboard the ISS is an off-the-shelf unit that has been repackaged in a new cabinet and adapted to operate from 120 V dc power.A power strip is also employed. It plugs into a standard UOP and provides four UOP type sockets, each of which can be switched on and off independently. The four sockets can be used to provide data connections. The unit also features a removable fuse.

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2013, 12:40:55 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on June 25, 2013, 02:21:08 pmI wish, sadly they stayed with the machine. - best tools I have ever used light, strong, no corrosion ( I live near the sea so rust spots are a constant problem on infrequestly used tools, even high quality, even with a coat of annoying oil) If I strike the lotto .......- aside from a bench full of Agilent toys

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2013, 01:48:33 am
content: That's it .. it is official .. I am going to buy a big red hammer like that one on ISS .... call the thing Bertha and stop buying sensible meters

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2013, 12:25:10 pm
content: well, $50-60 for a near indestructible phillips is pretty good imho.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2013, 06:54:30 pm
content: Quote from: mickpah on June 26, 2013, 12:40:55 amDid you ever try a compound called WD40 Long term Corrosion Inhibitor OR froglube?I saw video reviews of these two products and the anti-rust results they showed were phenomenal, eons ahead of regular things like WD40, house hold oils, etc. The froglube you need to actually heat a part up before you coat it, while the WD40 LTCI is just spray on.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 07:35:13 pm
content: Quote from: Dave on June 25, 2013, 07:08:16 pmI recall during the early days of the space shuttle, reading scientific/computer journals back then, one problem was the trace (inside the IC) getting too small. While smaller trace presents a smaller target for stray energetic subatomic particles, the noise to signal ratio is much higher when it does get hit. So, the larger die CPU's were preferred. No doubt the traces are even smaller today with 90nm/65nm die technology.I am not sure what the state of technology is, and stray particle hit is still a problem or not. If so, I doubt commercial grade laptops will do the job. They will probably need special shielding. Anyone with knowledge in that area give us an update?

author: muvideo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 08:41:52 pm
content: Wow, interesting toolbox !!Quote from: peter.mitchell on June 26, 2013, 12:25:10 pmI've never used Ti alloy tools, I'd like some first hand experiences,just for curiosityMaybe I'm wrong but I imagine that they are notmore indestrucitble, after all, than good steel toolsSurely are lighter non magnetic and chemically resistant, but agoodCrMoV alloy steel is a very good material, probably somewhere around1.5-2GPa tensile strenght, and can be made very hard too,depending on surface threatments.Also old Beryllium Copper tools are hard and resistant,i'm amused by the fact that few percent of Beryllium(well, perhaps i'ts not that easy) turn the soft copperinto a very hard and strong alloy

author: mickpah
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 12:06:43 am
content: Quote from: muvideo on June 30, 2013, 08:41:52 pmTI are tools are not used for for strength, at least in my application. Have a look what happens when steel screw driver meets MRI.I'm pretty sure this is a 1.5 Tesla Machine, 3.0 Tesla is now common in clinical use and higher field strengths in research.For even more funwatch these guys tring to remove a chair thathad be grabbed by the magnetThe patient is placed in the magnet bore for scanning, magnetic items in a scan room are not exactly funny if you are being scanned.MRI tech is really cool to work with high power RF, High power linear amps to drive gradients , Phased array transmit/receive sub systems..... weird mix of power and signal electronics

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 12:51:22 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on June 30, 2013, 07:35:13 pmThey use Thinkpads exclusively.http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-35/hires/iss035e022360.jpgThere are seven there alone. All appear to be R/T61s.E: T61p.

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:35:51 am
content: OMG .. or I shuld say OMG Big Blue in space !!!.. the crappiest laptop line/brand ever made. Trust me .. I have one from work and these crap-pads are truly absolute junk the literally squeak and crak on you from day 1 you have them. Noticed that they run Win XP also. I bet NASA is stuck in some contract with IBMI just hope that IBM does not run the same 2 year service period they do usually

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:45:08 am
content: Quote from: calin on July 01, 2013, 03:35:51 amI've owned mine for five years, it's still going strong. Thanks, but I'll stick with a laptop not made entirely from plastic.QuoteNot all of them. And heaven forbid they pick a known quantity for an OS running critical operations on the ISS.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 01:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: calin on July 01, 2013, 03:35:51 amDidn't they sell the PC/laptop business to Lenovo?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 01:39:15 pm
content: Broken laptops are ejected through the airlock! So instead of a dead dog and the other items from Jules Verne's story there is a whole string of laptops behind the ISS

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:43:17 pm
content: Yeah they did sold that to Lenovo ... and I think the quality actually improved after they sold it to Lenovo .. so imagine how crappy these are. I am typing right now on oneThese don't even qualify as high quality debris ....

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 04:16:36 pm
content: They did do a software upgrade to Debian recently on the laptops. They are only used for non critical things, like entertainment, experiments and photography. The data on them is going to be backed up if it is necessary, otherwise they are just reimaged if they fail firmware wise.They have had quite a few fail, and they were placed in a Progress module and sent with the rest of the garbage to a watery fiery burial in the South Pacific. The old battery packs though and other parts that wear like the HDD CDROM and memory though have been cannibalised from them before though to either upgrade or fix others that failed.Remember that with the cost of the laptop being the cheapest part of the package ( delivery is 100x more of course) they maxed them out on order, and tested them for a few months before sending them up to weed out failures. kinda was hard on the guys who had them on inventory though, as when they went up they never came back, and then come annual inventory they get the query of where is laptop xxx,yyy,zzz and they have to say it went up on mission x.y.z and is on the ISS and they have no idea if it is still working.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 05:45:35 pm
content: Quote from: calin on July 01, 2013, 03:43:17 pmThey really are not crappy. They're a hell of a lot more solid than the junk sold by popular brands.Quote from: SeanB on July 01, 2013, 04:16:36 pmNon-critical things like their interface to the flight controls of the ISS.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 06:17:51 pm
content: Quote from: mickpah on June 25, 2013, 08:16:07 amcraftsman titanium pliers?Spanners and sockets seem to be Snap-On brand, not too shabby.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 06:42:27 pm
content: Quote from: calin on July 01, 2013, 03:43:17 pmThat was almost 10 years ago. Actually, Great Wall Computer formed Lenovo Group for the acquisition. The new name was to let customer focus on the Thinkpad/IBM's PC names as oppose to let customers think of them as the Great-Wall-Thinkpad. Simply put, while Great Wall machines were selling well in China (number 1 at the time), they didn't think the Great Wall brand will do as well internationally even when compared to a new and unknown name.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 06:55:21 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 01, 2013, 04:16:36 pmYes, the money quote wasQuote

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 06:36:26 pm
content: More likely they got tired of the slow internet connection being held up always by the laptops phoning home for updates.... I know you can turn it off and have a server push them, but still.........

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 07:19:12 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 02, 2013, 06:36:26 pmThis "autoupdate" could have been a good thing, but many companies saw it as a way to ship at merely half-done then fix it post delivery.Even when it is used right, it is never good to introduce unknowns into a system. The resource to validate and re-valid every updates is very expensive and disruptive (to production lines). While most of the patch/updates works but certainly not ALL of them.Then there is the trouble with net-abuse. More precisely, it should be call customer abuse via the net. I'd love to return to the days when apps (those without reason to use the net) be net-free. I don't want Acrobat reader phones home on when, where, and what document I am reading (you can google "acrobat phone home", this started since Acrobat 6). I don't want my DVD player to phone home (not sure what it tells mother) each time I try to watch a movie...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 07:39:51 pm
content: It all started with that piece of spyware called real player........ Thank goodness for the original versions of some firewall ( can't remember at moment but it became bloatware later) having the ability to block outgoing connections on a per program basis, as well as per port or destination IP.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 07:56:11 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on July 02, 2013, 07:39:51 pmZone Alarm - I think that is the one you are thinking of. As usual, Microsoft killed that market by incorporating something they called "firewall" for "free". Now there is no more personal firewall for anyone to use.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 08:01:02 pm
content: Windows Firewall can block programs just fine.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 08:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2013, 07:56:11 pmThanks, I did use it. The built in firewall is only marginally better than a chocolate teapot, it has so many holes in it by design it is pretty much no use at all. Funny thing is that for years I ran my computer directly connected to the internet, no router but a straight DSL modem and a live IP address with no NAT or any port blocks. Then again I was using RH4 and such........

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 08:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 02, 2013, 08:01:02 pmI may be out of date here. Do you really mean there is a version of Windows Firewall that can block outbound packets by originating program, source and target ports, and source and target IP?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 09:15:06 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on July 02, 2013, 08:46:57 pmhttp://www.howtogeek.com/112564/how-to-create-advanced-firewall-rules-in-the-windows-firewall/

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 09:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: mickpah on July 01, 2013, 12:06:43 amIf I owned an MRI machine, I'd definitely chuck a load of shit in it just to see what happens

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 09:58:06 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 02, 2013, 09:15:06 pmActually, I didn't know Win7 could do by-program block. I gave up on Windows firewall for a while and never checked! Learn something new today. Thanks!