Understanding USB-C vs Thunderbolt confusion - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:16:24 am
content: This seems like a simple question, but the answer doesn't appear to be completely clear. I need to order a monitor, that will work with both PC and Mac laptops (both via the USB-C "type" port).Obviously some modern Macs have Thunderbolt interfaces, PC's don't. I need to be able to drive the display, charge the laptop and access the monitor's USB hub, all via 1 single USB-C/Thunderbolt cable.I currently do this with a M2 MacBook Air paired with a Lenovo ThinkVision T27p10 monitor. It works a treat.That being said, if I want to support newer MacBooks and PCs alike in the same way, do I need a monitor with USB-C input or a monitor with ThunderBolt input? From the research I've done, I need the former.In other words will a Thunderbolt source work with a non-Thunderbolt display, or is the opposite true?Life was much easier when if the plug fit, the thing worked.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:39:18 am
content: It does not matter.I use a Thunderbolt output on my Mac mini to hook on to a non mac display (aoc) with usb C input.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 08:10:43 am
content: Quote from: Sorama on December 03, 2024, 07:39:18 amThis is where the advice seems to get murky. Some say it does matter and some monitor manufacturers are producing monitors in both flavours.The collective advice and research leads me to believe that, generally speaking:- A Thunderbolt source will work with both a Thunderbolt and DP over USB-C monitor.- A USB-C (non-Thunderbolt) source will only work with a USB-C monitor.This is what I'm trying to confirm.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 08:12:42 am
content: USB-C is just a connector.If something advertises that it supports sending or receiving video over USB-C then that means it supports DisplayPort Alternate Mode. You might see a DP symbol beside the connector, but anyway if it does video then it will do DisplayPort.Things that do Thunderbolt 3/4 over USB-C support higher speeds and the protocol is actually PCIe. Thunderbolt devices can always connect to a DP device at the other end (at lower performance).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 08:14:52 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 03, 2024, 08:12:42 amThanks. I understand that and this seems to be confirming what I believe (above). So for overall compatibility, I should be choosing a USB-C/DisplayPort monitor, not Thunderbolt.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 08:15:15 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 08:10:43 amYes. And a Thunderbolt output with work with a non-Thunderbolt monitor.It's just that you only 10-20 Gbps DisplayPort speeds in both cases, not the higher 40 Gbps Thunderbolt speed.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 08:49:39 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 07:16:24 amMaybeyourPC doesn't....https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/accessories/thunderboltex-4/

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 09:57:18 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 08:14:52 am??That doesn't follow.I mean ... it will work with everything, but so will a monitor with Thunderbolt.The monitor with Thunderbolt will work even better with a computer with Thunderbolt, but it will work with any computer with USB-C.Non-Thunderbolt is usually cheaper, so if you don't need the higher performance (more pixels, more FPS) then sure DP is fine.Either kind can be a USB-C hub to plug other devices into, but a Thunderbolt monitor will allow high transfer speeds to SSD disks etc.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 10:52:59 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on December 03, 2024, 08:49:39 amOK sure. You can buy Thunderbolt expansion cards. I'm specifically talking about laptops.Quote from: brucehoult on December 03, 2024, 09:57:18 amI've read reports of interoperability issues with each other. It seems to be the case of "it depends".

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 11:14:33 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 10:52:59 amSo the original statement:Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 07:16:24 amPretty much all of that is exaggeration/incorrect:Every single mac shipping right now has thunderbolt (notsome).Many "PC" laptops have thunderbolt, even cheaper business tier portables (and pretty much all workstations).It has been this way for years.Recent USB versions are subsets of Thunderbolt, but for backwards compatibility USB-C monitors are more universal.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 11:37:40 am
content: Actually, Thunderbolt was developed by Apple and Intel (intel now has all the rights) and in the beginning (v1 & v2) was used by means of a DisplayPort cable.Thunderbolt v3 uses a usb C cable and is able to not only transfer audio and image, but also data.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 11:40:24 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 03, 2024, 11:14:33 amYou are correct. And I stand corrected, even my M2 Mac which I still consider current, has Thunderbolt 3.The issue is, I do have older PC laptops which whilst superseded by today's standards, are still in use. I need to cater for those. Those definitely don't have Thunderbolt, so I'm looking for the best of both worlds. None of this is going to be used for gaming, so anything above 60hz is mostly pointless.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 05:46:57 pm
content: In any case: thunderbolt displays will work with USB type C ports that support video and USB-C monitors work with thunderbolt hosts.The only issue with USB type C is that the max bandwidth is less and also can be partitioned less flexibly than thunderbolt. This makes thunderbolt better for multi monitor and docking stations where you want multiple high speed devices sharing the link.

author: Squarewave
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:16:54 pm
content: Some modern PCs have thunderbolt, my HP does.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2024, 07:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 10:52:59 amMy Dell laptop has two Thunderbolt 4 ports and also a USB-C port with DP-alt mode.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 06:33:27 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 03, 2024, 07:25:46 pmSeems it's more popular than I originally thought. I concede.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:02:17 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 03, 2024, 07:16:24 amMany PCs today have Thunderbolt, too — Thunderbolt is developed primarily by Intel, after all! Consequently it’s very common on PCs with Intel chipsets. It is much rarer on AMD chipsets.Anyhow, what you want is no problem. A Thunderbolt 3 or 4 port is also USB-C.A Thunderbolt device (disk array, display, etc) works only on a Thunderbolt-equipped computer. But a USB-C display will work on USB-C ports and Thunderbolt-enabled USB-C ports.(AFAIK, USB 4 largely eliminates this distinction, as it formally incorporates Thunderbolt into USB. I think there are some minor differences. I’d have to look into it more.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:05:53 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 03, 2024, 09:57:18 amIt probably depends on the precise implementation, but my understanding is that Thunderbolt displays fundamentally cannot be expected to work on a “plain” USB-C port.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:56:56 am
content: I have a Thunderbolt dock at home, that I use with my work laptop. I plugged in my home laptop that only has USB-C, USB 3.1 or something into it. It was one of this: "I wonder if it works" questions. It did. And then when I disconnected it the laptop BSOD. So I suggest getting compatible things and don't rely on chance and other people experience.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 10:06:44 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 04, 2024, 09:56:56 amOther peoples experience, when that is specific model of computer and specific model of peripheral is often the best thing to rely on!

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 10:24:19 am
content: According to internet, Apple's 27" 5K Studio display, for example, works with non-Apple PCs with ThunderBolt 3/4 at 5120x2680 @60 but will also work at lower resolution with DP Alt Mode on USB-C.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 11:02:37 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 04, 2024, 10:24:19 amFor the price of an Apple Studio display, I'd expect it to do that as a minimum, and make me coffee in the morning!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 11:33:19 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 04, 2024, 10:06:44 amUntil you get a firmware or windows or apple update and it breaks it all.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 11:46:20 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 04, 2024, 11:02:37 amIt's worth getting a good monitor. It's what your eyes are looking at 8 or 12 or 16 hours a day. It's something you can use for a decade or more, with as many different computer upgrades as you want.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 12:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 04, 2024, 11:46:20 amYou know my monitor. I recently checked my vision on an automatic machine, it turned out to be not very good, namely 0.45/0.75 (correction no/yes). But I don't feel discomfort and don't wear glasses.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 09:03:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 04, 2024, 09:05:53 amIt probably depends on the precise implementation, but my understanding is that Thunderbolt displays fundamentally cannot be expected to work on a “plain” USB-C port.This is not my understanding. Thunderbolt's data communication protocol for devices like storage arrays and external GPUs is basically PCIe, but that is not what used for displays. Even with thunderbolt, display port is it's own alternate mode which is superset of the regular USB-C display port alt mode. I don't know for sure if it's required by the standard to be backwards compatible with USB-C, but the handful of thunderbolt monitors I am aware of work with USB-C.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 10:44:10 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on December 04, 2024, 09:03:08 pmDoesn't it depend on whether the USB-C port actually supports DP-alt mode? There may be some that don't.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 10:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: Postal2 on December 04, 2024, 12:02:52 pm0.45/0.75 diopters? If so that’s absolutely nothing.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2024, 10:56:20 pm
content: For a professional use (thunderbolt..) docking station I can recommend the products from Sonnet:https://www.sonnettech.com/home.htmlThey also have compatibility charts and appear to do some products that support "displaylink" basically a external graphics card over USB 3?https://www.sonnettech.com/product/usbc-to-dual-4k-60hz-hdmi-adapter/overview.html

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 12:59:52 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 04, 2024, 10:44:10 pmYes for sure. If the port doesn't support display port output it doesn't matter what kind of display you hook up to it.The question was about compatibility for USB-C vs thunderbolt monitors. And as far as I know either will work as long as you connect it to a video capable port, whether it is thunderbolt or not.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 02:03:14 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on December 05, 2024, 12:59:52 amRight. You have to check the specs!I just looked at my Lenovo Legion Pro 5i 16" Gen 8 (2023), which I've never really paid attention to the ports as I only ever used the HDMI and an always-on USB A to charge my phone. The main reason I got it is the mighty 24 core i9-13900HX CPU (with 32 GB RAM and low end 4060 GPU) and it was cheap (US$1500+tax) as the Gen 9 were already out.Back:- USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 PD (support data transfer, Power Delivery 140W and DisplayPort 1.4)- USB A 3.2 Gen 1- USB A 3.2 Gen 1 (always on)Left side:- USB A 3.2 Gen 1- USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 (support data transfer and DisplayPort 1.4)Right side:- USB A 3.2 Gen 1Don't confuse PD with DP, though it seems at least in this case PD includes DPIt seems both USB-C ports support up to 5k @60Hz without Data Stream Compression. I don't know whether DSC is supported -- that would enable up to 8k monitors. Actually I'm guessing since the HDMI supports 8k then the USB-C probably does too?(not listed above for conciseness: RJ-45 gigE, full size HDMI 2.1 (up to 8K/60Hz), traditional 20V 300W power, 3.5mm headphone/mic, Wi-Fi 6E, 802.11ax 2x2 Wi-Fi + Bluetooth 5.2)

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 05:38:57 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 04, 2024, 10:44:10 pmWorse, thunderbolt controllers don't always support the negotiation and formats that USB do.ComputerMonitor/DockThunderboltThunderboltOkThunderboltUSB-C + DP altmodeOkUSB-C + DP altmodeUSB-C + DP altmodeOkUSB-C + DP altmodeThunderboltFailHad a visitor to the office today which enabled testing that last combination with a recent entry level business laptop. Windows 11 identified it was seeing a thunderbolt peripheral and popped up a warning with a link to further information. Pretty slick. PD still negotiated charging for the laptop but no USB downstream or Video connected.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 06:18:37 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 05, 2024, 05:38:57 amIt's supposed to work. Does your monitor's manufacturer say it works? Can you name names?

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 08:39:35 am
content: Quote from: tooki on December 04, 2024, 10:55:40 pmI just looked, it turns out that in different countries visual acuity is determined differently. I don't know what the device is called, but you put your head in there, and it shows a little plane behind the lens, everything moves automatically, and then a tape with printed results comes out. Apparently, the device is adapted to the country in which it is used.QuoteThe problem is that a person can easily memorize the chart and cheat, hoping to get a job where visual acuity matters. It is impossible to cheat an automatic device.The quality of my vision, which I have given above, indicates that even with glasses (correction) I will not see the line of text that a person with normal vision should see. However, I can easily read small print on products in a store.At a distance of 5 meters, a person with normal vision (not me) can distinguish 2 stripes, spaced 1.2 mm apart. Let's assume a sufficient pixel size of 0.1 mm and multiply by 5120. We get 5 meters. We recalculate the diagonal of 27 into a horizontal of ~22. The horizontal is ~55 cm. The viewing distance is 55 cm. Apple calculated everything correctly. If I had the same sharp vision as brucehoult, I would probably plan to buy such a display.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 10:20:05 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 05, 2024, 06:18:37 amWhy is it supposed to work? The thunderbolt endpoint(s) specifically call out in their documentation packages that a USB-C source is insufficient, only a thunderbolt source will work but that thunderbolt is backward-forwards compatible.I'm not sure there was any backwards Thunderbolt compatibility built into USB specs, just that USB4 is a subset of Thunderbolt 4 and shares protocols/pinout/negotiation.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 10:41:42 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 05, 2024, 05:38:57 amThis seems to be accurate based on the research I've done and people I've spoken to. I ended up going with the USB-C version of the monitor and it works perfectly with all the machines, including modern Macs with Thunderbolt.Seems like this is the way to go to be on the safe side.Thanks everyone for their input.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 11:30:28 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 05, 2024, 10:20:05 amI've already pointed out that Apple's materials say their Thunderbolt monitors work on computers with USB-C DP.Obviously I believe you that the device you have doesn't work, but why are you reluctant to say what it is, so that others can avoid it?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 12:34:28 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 05, 2024, 11:30:28 amSure, Apple's monitors might, but what about other manufacturers? I'm not purchasing Apple monitors.I don't have a monitor that "doesn't work". I was looking at a new display to replace the ones I had. The research didn't seem so simple (that's evident just in the comments in this thread). I ended up going with the Samsung USB-C models and they work great.Monitor manufacturers seem reluctant saying that it works with certain machines because of these incompatibilities. You won't find it anywhere in the Samsung specs, for example. There was a reason behind my original question because it's not straightforward. I wasn't about to spend good money on something that didn't work, because I didn't do my homework properly.@Someone provided a real world example showcasing this issue. That's not to say all USB-C DP sources will fail on a Thunderbolt monitor, because that's not always the case either. I was looking for the path of least resistance, and a monitor that worked the best in most situations.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 01:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 05, 2024, 12:34:28 pmI just checked the manual for LG's 27" 5k Thunderbolt monitor, which internet says is comparable to Apple's in quality but much cheaper, and is much better than Samsung's.https://gscs-b2c.lge.com/downloadFile?fileId=s9rQnprzSnnnuCWBNL5gBQIt explicitly says it supports connecting the "Thunderbolt" input port to USB-C DP on Windows 10 machines, though you get only 4k resolution. Apparently they supply different cables in the box for Thunderbolt and USB-C connection to the same port on the monitor.The manual for the Samsung 27" Smart Monitor Viewfinity S9 S90PC 5K says: "Connects to a source device using a USB Type-C cable. When connecting a USB Type-C source device, make sure to use the USB Type-C 3.1 Gen2 10G cable so that the screen is displayed properly. Lower version cables do not support the video input function (Displayport ALT)." The illustration on P25 shows that, again, separate Thunderbolt and USB-C cables are supplied but that they both plug into the Thunderbolt port on the monitor.The manual says the S9 series support 5k from both Thunderbolt and USB-C sources.https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/202402/20240228042159001/BN81-24425G-02_WEB_M50C%20M70C%20M80C%20S90PC_ASIA%20MENA%20AFRICA_L06_240226.1.zipSo that's at least Apple, LG, and Samsung supporting USB-C DP on their Thunderbolt monitors.QuoteSee above for my homework results.QuoteNo they didn't.They said some unspecified device failed, under some unspecified conditions.As they have not said which device we can not:1) avoid that device2) check the manuals to see whether they claim compability and there was perhaps user error

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 03:19:35 pm
content: I have a usb adapter compatible with Windows XP (photo). Of course, not USB-C, but almost. All that's left is to buy a monitor.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 08:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 05, 2024, 01:36:36 pmThat's it, way too much reading to find some short line that is almost ambiguous (who remembers all the USB x.y n.m gen r combinations?) statement.The two thunderbolt endpoints I have here (and others) say in the manual that only thunderbolt works for a source. I was able to verify that a random newer USB standard did not negotiate anything beyond the PD.Will zero USB devices negotiate with those endpoints? perhaps, I can't claim that at this time.Will all USB devices work on all Thunderbolt monitors? No, I found the example to prove that is untrue.... and it is supported by the documentation.Are there other Thunderbolt endpoints that also support USB sources? Yes, some even advertise clearly that they are universal.But Thunderbolt alone is not always downward/sideways compatible with USB. From my tests, and from the documentation of manufacturers. Unless someone can find a Thunderbolt specification document somewhere that says it must accept USB encapsulated sources (of some format) then I'm siding with the manufacturers in saying Thunderbolt is just that and no more.Given the OP is asking for a solution that isn't full of corner cases and "might work might not" then the advice has been pretty much on the money, get a monitor that explicitly states it will do USB DP altmode, I'm yet to find a laptop that advertises video out on a USB-C connector which couldn't connect to that sort of end point (still does not mean 100%, but better than the cases which I can very quickly find failing examples of).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 10:12:51 pm
content: The other thing is, I don't want multiple cables. I want one cable that will work with all machines.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2024, 11:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on December 05, 2024, 08:21:55 pmAnd you STILL haven't told us what these "two thunderbolt endpoints" are, which makes your information not useful to anyone.QuoteWhich is the case for Thunderbolt monitors from all manufacturers I checked: Apple, LG, and Samsung.Perhaps there are one or more 2nd tier brands where it is not true, but I'm unlikely to buy a monitor from outside that trio, and I don't have time or inclination to check all others -- unless at some point I'm in the market for a monitor and see a particularly interesting deal, in which case I will check exactly that one.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2024, 03:30:54 pm
content: I just discovered USB-C wear when charging a 3 year old tablet. I had no issues with micro USB for 10 years. The USB-C wear was that the tablet was not getting enough current when charging from 0%, the charging started in cycles, I waited 15 minutes. Then I turned the USB-C over and it started charging normally. I suspect the whole USB-C thing is a world class scam.Confirming the problem is easy even for a schoolchild. Open the device that will receive a large current. Connect USB-C and look at the heating of the USB-C socket with a thermal imager. After that, draw a conclusion about the durability.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2024, 04:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: Postal2 on December 12, 2024, 03:30:54 pmI have had issues like that with charging iPhones and the Lightning connector. It happens that dust and fluff can accumulate in the connector port and create poor electrical contact.With the Lightning connector the electrical contacts on the plug and socket are open and accessible, and very easy to clean with a toothpick or some other implement.With the USB-C connector the electrical contacts are buried and hard to reach with any cleaning implements. I'm not sure what the best cleaning method might be, compressed air maybe?Anyway, I think the Lighting design is more robust than USB-C in this regard.

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2024, 05:01:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on December 12, 2024, 04:41:40 pmI've added to the previous post. No, the cord is always in the same position in a clean place where the tablet is placed to charge. It has probably been through ~1000 connection cycles in the same position. At each stage I reconnected it several times. It took some effort to turn it over, and it worked immediately. The tablet is used only at home, and it runs out of battery because I sometimes fall asleep with it on.At the moment, I marked the top of the USB-C plug with a cross so as not to mix it up. Before that, I noticed that the tablet sometimes takes longer to charge than usual.I assume that the nickel coating on the contacts has worn off and degraded. And if you think that it is thick enough on your cable, perhaps this can be checked chemically. Buy the cheapest connector on Aliexpress, disassemble both connectors, leaving only the contacts and put them in acid, which eats nickel. I assume that the nickel dissolution time will be the same, unless the sellers of your expensive cable bought connectors from the absolute garbage that they usually find.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2024, 11:50:53 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 12, 2024, 04:41:40 pmIn a way yes. But there’s also a strong argument for having the “consumable” part of a connector pair — the spring side — on the cable and not in the device.I suppose the counterargument is that having the springs in the device means a device maker will choose a connector with robust, long-lasting springs, whereas a cable maker may choose el-cheapo connectors with lousy springs that lose force.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 10:33:42 am
content: Quote from: tooki on December 13, 2024, 11:50:53 amThis seems to be the case with older Apple products. Poor connectivity was either due to junk in the receptacle (on the device) and/or poor quality cables (even the Apple genuine ones were a bit crap).I've had far fewer issues with USB connectors over the past several years. Anecdotally, I probably replaced 1 USB socket for every 20 Apple lightning connectors.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2024, 08:17:34 pm
content: For sure, Apple’s switch to PVC-free cables (around 2010 I think?) led to years of cables with poor longevity. (Like the insulation seemingly growing in length over time, causing it to buckle and eventually split open, splintering lengthwise at strain points.) It took a long time for them to find something that works. And even now I’d argue that PVC insulation still holds up better.The very first generation of lightning plugs was susceptible to the same failure mode that affects many USB-C and HDMI plugs (and nearly all full-size DisplayPort plugs) today: snapping off of the little PCB the connector straddles, if the plug housing is subjected to any force. They quickly changed that to a better design that is well-supported, and that problem vanished. (Both in Apple cables and in authorized third-party cables, since Apple supplies all Lightning plugs for those.)At some point much later on, they changed the plating of the contacts from gold to rhodium to better resist arcing damage from hot-plugging. A super common failure mode was for arcing to damage the gold plating, and then for moisture and finger oils to provide a path for electrolytic corrosion. (Since the contacts on the lightning plug are completely exposed, it’s very easy for them to become contaminated.) Look at many a well-used lightning plug and you’ll see one contact per side that is corroded while the others are largely intact; that’s the 5V contact.While I can’t verify it, I assume the 5V pins in the connectors also have more corrosion, due to contaminants transferred from the plugs.This question never occurred to me before, but I wonder if this a contributing reason to why USB-C was designed with all its contacts recessed, even though it makes the plug a bit fatter.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 01:33:36 am
content: Just a brief update, it looks like it's possible to run the monitor I purchased at 3440x1400 @ 100hz using DP over USB-C in "high resolution" mode, at the expense of a speed reduction over the built-in USB hub and ethernet port.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 04:39:26 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on December 16, 2024, 01:33:36 amSo the DP takes over all the signalling on the high speed pairs and the USB connection drops back to a USB-2 ?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2024, 06:25:10 am
content: Quote from: Someone on December 16, 2024, 04:39:26 amI'm not entirely sure. I haven't had time to do proper testing with some high speed SSDs. I probably won't get to it this year, but when I do, I'll report my findings.Even if it is USB 2.0 speeds, that's perfectly fine. The hub in the monitor is only being used for keyboard, mouse and a webcam. Any drives generally get plugged directly into the machine itself and the ethernet port isn't being used as Wi-Fi is faster.