Bench Space reduction ideas?  Analog Discovery 2 maybe? Other ideas? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 04:41:15 pm
content: I am looking to reduce the footprint of my bench, without getting into it too deep, i have a lot of older gear. I want to get down to a small primary footprint and add logic analyzer capabilities. The idea is, if I really need to dig out the DSA or the spectrum analyzer for example, I could temporarily place it on the bench. I'm not looking to get rid of the other gear, just use it less often where they don't need a permanent place on the bench.I mostly work with audio, RF below 30mhz and getting back into digital (no logic analyzer at the moment.)to get things started, i got a silent SDS1104X-E, and am planning on getting an AWG to complement it. it does have a logic analyzer option, but, I hear that, although it works, still needs more development, plus it costs about $440 for the hardware and firmware/license.I've read a bit about the Analog Discovery 2. The attraction of it is it provides me a 16 channel logic analyzer and also can do some basic audio functions including THD measurements using its built-in AWG and Spectrum analyzer, Network analyzer functionality within limits which would work for me for audio use. that gets the DSA and my distortion meter off the bench for most things, and can fit in a drawer when not in use. what is the opinion of this device? are there better alternatives?also, open to other space reduction ideas?A computer is already fixture on my bench, so, I am not opposed to computer attached devices.

author: umbro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 04:49:05 pm
content: Hi,this is good.https://quantasylum.com/collections/frontpage/products/qa401-audio-analyzer

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 04:51:52 pm
content: If you replace the computer with a laptop, you may gain some additional real state.Ideally, the "computer" in a workbench should have been a tablet.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 05:11:54 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 11, 2018, 04:51:52 pmMy second "bench" which is where I spend most of my time, is a smallish desk in a spare bedroom. I also have a computer there, a mid-sized tower PC, which I use constantly. The CPU is under the desk, the 25" monitor hangs on the wall, and I use a small inexpensive wireless keyboard and mouse, which can be put to the side quickly. The money I saved by not having to buy a nice laptop, which I don't otherwise need, could buy a hobby level scope.

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 05:32:36 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 11, 2018, 04:51:52 pmI would suggest that the "ideal" configuration would be the CPU crammed back under the bench somewhere, the associated flat panel display wall or crane mounted and the keyboard and mouse (wireless) at hand but easily put to the side when not needed. I admit that I have not achieved this myself yet. My "main computer" sits on a table across the room from my bench. I frequently "chair surf" back and forth between the two.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 06:40:33 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 11, 2018, 04:51:52 pmyea the processor i am using is very small one of that micro itx types, so it is smaller than a laptop, and using a wireless keyboard and mouse, so takes up less space than a laptop. it's under the shelf with the 23" monitor over it against the wall, and I store the wireless keyboard and mouse under the shelf on top of the micro pc, so pretty much tucked away out of the way. a tablet would be a nice option. I have a laptop I could swap in but, it's bigger than the computer lol

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 06:52:26 pm
content: Look at the GW Instek MSO-2000E series. I have not tested this myself but from experience with the non-MSO version (which runs the same firmware) I'm pretty sure it works.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 07:05:07 pm
content: thanks, though, i already got the SDS1104X-E .. cost wise all in with the AWG and dso you're at 1150ish and the gwinstek would be and at 2k for pretty much the same functionality.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 08:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: innkeeper on July 11, 2018, 07:05:07 pmWith the difference that the GW Instek actually works so it offers better value for money even at the higher price. You wrote it yourself: you have doubts about the Siglent being able to deliver on what it promises.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 09:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 11, 2018, 08:12:20 pm

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2018, 11:22:13 pm
content: I know what you mean about space. As much as possible, I've avoided buying full-width rack gear. If you have a lot, you may want to get a rack to put them in so they take less floor space. If you don't have too many, a rolling rack as used for audio gear might be a good solution (easy to relocate).Depending on your vertical situation and ground stability, shelves are also your friend when it comes to optimizing space.The AD2 is a great space saver. Some say that it's pricey for what you get, but you do get a lot in a really small package. I'm glad I got one, but for audio analysis take note that the ADC is only 14 bits (still better than the 8 bits on most scopes, though). Still, it's good enough for general purpose distortion measurements (depends on your requirements, of course).I recall Dave did a video on a National Instruments lab-in-a-box device some time ago. I don't remember how good it was, spec wise, but do remember it being expensive. It was larger than the AD2, but still a space saver compared to individual test instruments.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 12:33:32 am
content: It sounds as if your computer situation is mostly optimized for space already but no one has mentioned a slide out keyboard tray. I have a standard metal 5 foot office desk I used as a main computer desk and put in a selfmade tray with slides bought from home depot. I love this thing, it also doubles as an airline food tray when eating and smurfing the internets. I know you shouldn't eat in the lab. don't judge.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 12:45:27 am
content: Quote from: umbro on July 11, 2018, 04:49:05 pmi don't need it, i want it, .. i wish you had not showed me that... yea out of budget for the immediate anyway. certainly would make a few pieces of gear on my bench redundantthough it's not the best solution, I may go with either a soundcard setup or the analog discovery 2 for basic testing and analysis.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 12:57:20 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on July 11, 2018, 11:22:13 pmI'll have to take a look at the lab in a box.The rack idea is a good one. I have more than a few pieces of gear that are rack mount sitting on the bench shelves., that with some of the new gear i do not need to use as often like the DSA and the RF signal gen, and a few others that there are rack mount kits for, like the hp spectrum analyzer, I could make up a small rack on wheels and move that equipment into there. and just by coincidence there all GPIBthat would be better than lifting some of that gear off the shelf, especially the monstrous DSA ... that's a great idea.hmm, yes...the DAC is a limitation on the AD2, but i think for just my average bench testing it would be functional enough. when i really need to know low-level numbers i can still dig out the dedicated gear. but its a limitation to be aware of. Similarly, i noticed it has a "relatively" high noise floor.if there's a better bang for the buck/space id certainly be interested. with these small units that can be tucked away in a drawer, its no hindrance to having dedicated items, like one LA and one to do audio analysis since they don't take up bench space when not being used.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 01:00:26 am
content: Quote from: innkeeper on July 12, 2018, 12:45:27 amIf you have the patience, haunt ebay for a while. I already had an AD2 but I recently saw an AD1 that no one seemed to be watching. In the end I got it for $55 shipped. It is almost as good as the AD2. I was going to sell that, but my grandson just signed up for a summer drone/robotics course. If her gets enthused I will give the AD1 to him.Also, I like these little HP power supplies. They are built solid, easy to work on and can usually be picked up on ebay for $30-50. Just have to look for the nice ones. I picked up the BK DMM for $20 shipped as well. Nothing fancy, but it is always on and right there all the time.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 01:01:05 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on July 12, 2018, 12:33:32 amhides my beerhmm i could do a slide out under the shelf. ... kinda like that idea.

author: SWR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2018, 07:24:54 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 11, 2018, 08:12:20 pmI agree with nctnico on that one.They have recently brougt out a new model called MDO-2204ES.That scope is a real “swiss army knife” including:4ch 200MHz scope with 40M samples and 29K segmented memory with advanced search.Spectrum analyzer with 1Mpt FFT and fast update rates down to DC (ideal for audio).Serial protocol analyzer with UART, I2C, SPI, CAN and LIN with advanced search.16ch logic analyzer.Dual 200MHz AWG with 16K waveforms and synchronisation with scope channels.Dual programmable power supply with current limit.Digital multimeter with integrated screendump for easy report generation.All this in one compact scope where you can download apps with different extended functionality and easy labview interface. It’s a very compact solution. 😊

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 01:31:45 am
content: That sounds pretty cool (and expensive). Any western pricing info yet?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 05:08:30 pm
content: I have the MSO-2204EA which with the 1.32 FW runs the SA function for the MDO in demo mode which you can break out of and control. Unfortunately, i mentioned this to Instek so they promptly made it not run on the MSO.I continually encounter bugs in the Instek FW. However, they do fix them. I've since discovered to my horror that the tier 1 companies don't do significantly better on their FW QA at 10x the price.But I did buy a refurbished Tek 485 just so I don't have to deal with bugs all the time.The big cost in the LA option for a DSO is the ADCMP58x comparators. The Digilent LA functions are bare 3.3 V inputs to the FPGA. Not a robust design at all. The ADCMP58x pods are good for 40 V. So one is not likely to damage them.If you want a really good LA at low cost, A Zynq dev board with 1 GB of DRAM and a pod for a Siglent or Instek scope is worth considering if you don't mind learning to use FPGAs.I've been assembling a dev system so I can write open source FW for cheap DSOs starting with the Zynq based GDS-2072E. I've got a little bit more stuff to wire up and I'll be ready to play.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 12:51:47 am
content: Do you have a thread for your Zynq firmware adventures?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 03:06:59 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on July 21, 2018, 12:51:47 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/open-source-instrument-firmware-project-104048/msg1425564/#msg1425564I've not done anything significant yet. Shortly after I started it I started buying T&M gear and have so busy setting that up that I've not done any software side work. However, the last few days I have been outlining the architecture. I spent my career in seismic processing, so DSOs are pretty trivial..I've never used an FPGA, but that is simply because at the level of complexity of seismic processing they are not cost effective. A friend spent about $250K having a program ported to an FPGA and a GPU. The conclusion was it was not worth deploying either.Which is not to say I've not been busy, I have a Zybo Z7-20 and a BeagleBoard X15 installed in an old PC carcass with a dedicated ethernet switch and a hard drive for the X15. I just got the 2.1 mm power plugs for the USB 3.0 hubs, but have not wired them up or fabricated the mounting plate for the hubs.i also stole the monitor mount for the console KVM switch monitor to build a hand tool holder described in the Projects section. So I need to buy a couple more mounts. One for the monitor and one for a rework station.I'm also prone to running off and playing with random stuff like voltage references and at the moment, working on a 20 input multiplexer for my DMMs. Which in turn requires a GPIB controller, etc.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 05:51:03 am
content: Thanks for the link. Sounds like you got a littleGAS. Very easy to do.