I’m calling BS on this entire website! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:12:39 pm
content: This is BS! I am currently enrolled in the Mechatronics (mechanical-electrical Engineering) program at the local college. I now find myself perusing this site for new videos by Dave, and I currently own four multimeters, with a fifth one on the way. I have never had any alcohol or drug addictions. But I imagine they are similar to this addiction. Why is there no warning before you join this group? Is there a 12 Step help group or forum in here to assist us in dealing with this addiction? :-)Russ

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:17:33 pm
content: Luckily you can find all the help and support you need 'in-house' here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:30:19 pm
content: and wait till you start sourcing boatanchors from evilbay

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:33:20 pm
content: and don’t even visit the metrology section, don’t let that virus bite you.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:36:42 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on January 04, 2018, 04:33:20 pmRuss thinks he's got problems with only five meters, hell I've got five AVO's.Where's that thread of members that have 20+ scopes ?Or shouldn't we scare him off too early ?

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:41:44 pm
content: Yeah Russ take a look at this,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-7000/

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:46:23 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on January 04, 2018, 04:41:44 pmOoooh, I need a scope or two. Maybe more... :-0Russ

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:03:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 04, 2018, 04:17:33 pmTautech! No! Don't send him there. That's like sending a drug addict to an opium den!Ed

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:04:04 pm
content: The opium is some good shit though

author: neo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:04:59 pm
content: 3 scopes, 3 frequency counters, 9 digital multimeters, another 3 VTVMs and enough power supplies to trip over. All of this in varying degrees of function and in a year.5 multimeters is not an addiction, it is an appetizerLet the good times rollhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/5900/?topicseen

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:13:51 pm
content: I’m so screwed.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:14:07 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 04:46:23 pmTwenty is the suggested number to aspire to. Note that this is simply a guideline; feel free to buy more. They don't all need to be working, multiple 'project' ones can count towards your total.-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:17:04 pm
content: Oh, and please do join us over in thecrack house...errr... ...I mean TEA thread in the test equipment section. We're here to help, really.-Pat

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:21:36 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 05:13:51 pmNo really Russ it's not all that bad unless you get cursed like me and turn it into some career of sorts.Relax buddy, you're in excellent company around here.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:33:22 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 04:46:23 pmOh, you lucky person!Ahead of you is the joy of discoveringwhypeopleneedhave so many scopes. Raw bandwidth for some purposes, analogue for some purposes and digitising for others, numbers of channels, <spit> protocol decodes </spit>, variants such as TDRs and modulation domain analysers, then on to spectrum/network/logic analysers, ...And then there is the joy of grokking them sufficiently that you can read evilbay adverts an have a good guess which ones can be easily repaired.But be wary of the "ooh, aren't nixie / panaplex / VFD displayssoothing"; that way lies insanity.Ditto getting the maximum number of trailing 0s or 9s on a multimeter display.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:36:45 pm
content: No no no no, it's not about bandwidth etc.It's about the cycle of:1. Buy a scope2. Buy another scope to fix that one.3. Goto 2.I'm down to two at the moment. I nearly had 4 the other day. Peak scope was 7 I think.Purging LCDs from my bench was fun, and expensive.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:41:19 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 04, 2018, 05:36:45 pmNow you are getting into the distinction between publicly acceptable justifications and less acceptable justifications.QuoteAnd you still feel able to contribute to the TEA thread?How did you dispose of the scopes?

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:48:03 pm
content: WTF! I was just notified that my fifth DMM has been shipped, and I am already pondering the 121GW model.Russ

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:51:23 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 04, 2018, 05:36:45 pmHeretic!!While I'll (grudgingly) accept selling one if it's replaced by a better one, the TOTAL quantity on hand, if not remaining steady, should move in only one direction - UP!-Pat

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 06:09:42 pm
content: May I just excuse myself and say that the only reason I actually disposed of kit (and it was via ebay and private sales) was that I don't currently have enough room to store it all and am moving house soon so minimising stuff is a short term goal.This will be entirely rectified shortly with a house move and my wife will become like "200 scopes and dead husband" woman on ebay at the moment. In my will I am going to leave her 200 large double walled cardboard boxes and a skip full of bubble wrap.Also I bought another power supply yesterday so that's 4 now

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 06:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 04, 2018, 06:09:42 pmYou need professional help. Do not let your wife take out a life Insurance policy on you.Russ

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 06:24:58 pm
content: Generic scopes are bad coke, but for the full on crack experience you need to get a **NETWORK ANALYSER**! The box is just the start at that point, because the bloody calibration loads, never mind the phase stable test port extension cables and verification kits are where the real wallet rape happens.I bought an old HP 8753C thinking it was only £350 and I could beat the drug, next thing I know, 6GHz test set, calibrated HP reference SOL set in a cute little wooden box, several different APC-7 to more common RF adaptor sets, a Gore test port extension cable, calibrated attenuators for verification... Damn thing is getting expensive.Regards, Dan.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 06:44:22 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 04, 2018, 05:41:19 pmThat's Ok, I'm making up for bd139 I mean this time last year I had 1 little battery operated kit scope and a 20MHz CRO, now I have 5 working CRO's, a 20MHz, a 40MHz, A 60MHz and 2 100MHz CRO's, PC based one and the battery kit one, 6 bench multimeters, 4 handheld DMM's, 4 LCR meters, 1 RF signal generator, 1 function generator, 4 counters, 1 VTVM, 1 scope calibrator, 3 soldering stations, 1 desolder station, 2 Microscopes., 1 SMD rework station, 2 bench supplies, desk magnifier lamp, voltage reference, decade resistor box and a project 40Mhz CRO, 2 project radios and 30" project monitor along with 2 project internet radios. So you see, this group is the perfect therapy for you and not to mention loads that I've yet to list.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 07:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 04, 2018, 05:14:07 pmI'm expecting a Fluke 45 to arrive in the next few hours which will bring my total to 16. Thanks to the TEA group I expect to reach 20 by this Summer.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 07:54:10 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on January 04, 2018, 05:21:36 pmNo - turn it into a career and get the company to pay for all yourtoys- I mean necessary and very important test equipment.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:09:08 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 04, 2018, 06:09:42 pmThat opium must be good shit then because you've just added and LCD counter to your benchBig new house or not, if you get anywhere near 200 scopes or 200 item's of TEA keep a close eye on SWMBO, if life insurance gets mentioned, start selling some gear quick or the "200 scopes and dead husband" woman could well be SWMBO

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:12:08 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 04, 2018, 07:50:06 pmI'm sorry, that wasn't entirely clear.The quantity of twenty is for scopes. I don't know of a 'suggested' number for meters, but as they're (usually) smaller than scopes, I'd expect it to be greater - thirty, perhaps?-Pat

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 04, 2018, 08:12:08 pmIsn't it based on volume? So 20 scopes would be, maybe 50 multimeters (bench style, of course - handhelds have no limit).

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:27:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 04, 2018, 08:12:08 pmOh yea that's more like it - I thought that number was a little low.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:39:50 pm
content: I'm just glad that Mr Carlson has pursuaded SWMBO that the lab he had constructed in the basement broom cupboard with his person surrounded by deathly jauntily tilted ancient valve equipment and Tektronix CRO's above his head that weigh half a tonne, has let him expand his lab space somewhat into her old laundry room.Good on Mrs Carlson!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 09:23:32 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 04:12:39 pmOnly 5 meters? I'm at the low end of the spectrum and I am still 3 ahead of youPlus 3 scopes, 3 function generators, 1 LCR meter, 1 frequency counter, 2 bench power supplies and 4 others, 2 soldering stations, 1 desoldering station and 2 hot air stations. No addiction here. No problem here except that Italian disease--fundz-a-low--so no more toys for awhile.Luckily, the 3 ham radio transceivers, 4 personal computers, 1 laptop and 2 tablets don't count here.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 09:49:27 pm
content: Quote from: Neilm on January 04, 2018, 07:54:10 pmBonus points if it is a T&M company, like Hewlett-PackardBut I was hookedbeforeI did that.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:08:52 pm
content: The addiction I got from this forum is Aliexpress

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on January 04, 2018, 08:27:17 pmMaybe, except that some of my meters are bigger than most scopes....This combination (currently still in the repair queue), at 13-1/2" tall overall, full rack width, 18" deep and weighing about 90 lbs, will measure both AC and DC voltage, and resistance too!(I'm probably safe volume-wise, though, as I have a soft spot for Tek 500 series boat anchor scopes, too)-Pat

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:35:58 pm
content: That is a monster, what are the ranges on it?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:40:11 pm
content: Funny that I found this piece of paper on my things today...

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:51:52 pm
content: Gremlins struck again

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 11:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 04, 2018, 10:35:58 pm100mV to 1000V DC, 100mV to 750V pk AC, and 100to 10M-Pat

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 11:37:43 pm
content: Voltages are ok but the resistance ranges are a bit crap, for such a big meter I would have expected super low resistances and to go much higher than 10M, unless it has some real value, I'd junk that and replace it with loads more smaller more capable gear, although it looks as if you're not short of storage space in your lab

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 11:45:01 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 04, 2018, 07:50:06 pm16? What’s wrong with us? WTF?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 11:49:47 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 11:45:01 pmWhat do you meanUS?None of us have any problems .........

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 01:42:35 am
content: Quote from: tautech on January 04, 2018, 11:49:47 pmReally! I'm feeling fine - I just took my temperature and it's normal. Well, the only problem I could really say I have is I don't have enough DMMs. And it's not a big problem becasue I can just go back to Ebay, which I think I'll do right now!

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 03:00:32 am
content: I was feeling a bit off. Kind of blue, out of sorts, just not myself.But I just bought a Stanford Research DS345 Function Generator and an Oscilloquartz 8655S oscillator.I feel much better now.Ed

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 03:09:12 am
content: Quote from: edpalmer42 on January 05, 2018, 03:00:32 amNice!QuoteI completely understand.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:03:34 am
content: HelloAny recommendations for a clamp-on accessory probe for my Eevblog/Brymen 235?Thanks

author: mitchty
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:10:14 am
content: I was treating stuff like the oscilloscope/multimeters like I would cats. More than two and you're into crazy cat lady territory.But yeah my first thought was Mr Carlsons lab. That crazy canadians got an insane amount of test equipment.I'm glad there is everyone here to make me feel happy I'm not yet on the dark side of the force. Even if there are cookies on that side.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:11:52 am
content: Quote from: mitchty on January 05, 2018, 04:10:14 amOh, you’re well on your way.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:13:04 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 04, 2018, 11:37:43 pmWell, in its defense, it does date to the early/mid 60s, and IIRC the AC/Ohms converter has tubes in it, so...Besides, the mass helps keep my house from blowing away when it gets windy, and it has nixie tubes.Six of them. I think we can agree that they trump ranges, volume and mass.Let's get the new guy hooked on neon numbers!-Pat

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:27:51 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 05, 2018, 04:13:04 amI am so screwed.New Guy

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:30:06 am
content: Quote from: mitchty on January 05, 2018, 04:10:14 amCome on over - we have nixies and lasagna, too.And for what it's worth, Lab Cat and his five associates here beg to differ with your feline assessment.-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:32:14 am
content: Quote from: Russ on January 05, 2018, 04:27:51 amYeah, pretty much...-Pat

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:33:46 am
content: Nice. I'm glad your cat appreciates the smell of vintage electronics.

author: Andy-In_over_my_head
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:37:54 am
content: I feel you! I’m completely YouTube taught and I only do this as a hobby. I have a great career that’s not electricity. I got my first meter barely a year ago. I’ve now invested over $8,000 easily into my lab at home between all my multimeters, scopes, power supplies and almost daily eBay buys for components and junk. It seems way more expensive being someone who wants to build everything from nothing without gluing an arduino into a box and calling it a day. This forum is the only place I can go and say this and people will understand the reasoning to all the time, money and extensive studying learning the laws and math I’ve learned this past year. I wouldn’t change it for anything. Keep killing it and good luck brotha!

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:42:39 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 04:40:33 amCome on in, blueskull - the water's fine!-Pat

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:46:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 04:40:33 amRight ... right,that's what they all say at first.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 08:49:25 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 04:46:37 amAll you need is patience... A Solartron 7081 for £100, a 7 decade KVD for £180, then £14 each for a 10V source with <<1uV noise, two Guildline 10k resistors, and some free saturated Weston standard cells that are well in spec after 70 years and are great as noise-free temperature-controlled voltage sources.Getting cables/connectors for the above is irritatingly expensive and difficultQuoteI refuse to look at most free scopes, since they are boring. The only free scope I've had was a Tek 464 (effectively storage version of a 465).You have to be patient to get decent (== >350MHz or resistive divider) affordable probes, of course.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:01:17 am
content: Indeed. Patience reveals a lot of nicely priced stuff here in the UK at least. I've got some real bargains. I think I only had two lemons.I've worked out my problem is "TSOD" Transient Scope Ownership Disorder. I've actually counted up the scopes I've had since 1995 and it totals 28 now. I think I just like fixing and restoring them. After that I lose interest.This is the fun bit (£29 of scope):Pile of crap:Turned into pile of awesome with a few hours' work (with a friendly 465B):I think a non DM44 equipped 475 is probably my favourite scope ever.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:08:27 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 05, 2018, 04:13:04 amI suppose you have a point about the heft of, it helps to keep the house planted when twisters come byI have my share of Nixie's too but they are not as easy to read as LEDs

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:16:54 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 05, 2018, 11:01:17 amI have a long way to go yet I think then, I have to admit though that I seem have trouble in the letting them go dept, even if it is to release more cash for even more TEA

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:21:21 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 05, 2018, 11:16:54 amIt's all about the buy price and the $$$ made with a straightforward repair and cleanup. A pair of cheap new probes and stick the manual on CD. Once you get a good feel for fixing CRO's like bd139 it's money forjamnew toys.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:34:38 am
content: Exactly that.The two Teks above pocketed me £290 totalling over £200 in profit, which got spent on a new Keysight handheld DMM

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 11:43:42 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 05, 2018, 11:34:38 amI know, I've done that with 4 other scopes already and made money on all of them which I have reinvested in more TEA items, still find it a struggle though parting with them after the work has been put inHaving said that lack of space helps in that dept otherwise I'd have 12 scopes right now

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 12:12:48 pm
content: It does suck letting them go. For me it goes like this:1. Oooh new scope to play with.2. Oh it's really broken.3. Hours of work4. Yay it works but I'm fed up of the sight of your innards now.5. On ebay you go.6. Sold. Readies in pocket!7. Lamenting the loss of a close friend.8. Browsing ebay for exactly the same scope you just sold.9. Go to 1

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 01:21:53 pm
content: I think we just created a safety backup to the main TEA thread ...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 01:43:06 pm
content: I did think that earlier. That's going to bugger the top thread ranking!

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 01:54:46 pm
content: - Stay away from everything that has the word analyser in it.- do not worry about multimeters upto the point someone wants to know how much meters or scopes you have and you do not know.This will be your future, it goes like this, showing your lab to a mate:I: No I'm no horder, I only have 2 scopes,M: and what is that ?I: oh wait, I forgot my scopemeter, not really a scope...M: what is that there under that bench ?I: that is just an old Tek 453 from the first series they made, I do not consider that a scope, it is only 50 MHzM: and that enormous thing with a round CRT is a television ?I: Oh my Tek 547 with 1S2 plugin, no that is not really a scope, that is my TDR.M: I think I see a another crt behind that heathkit power supplyI: Oh, there was my 1 GHz sample scope. I could not find it. Hey, thanks mate for spotting it ,mumble mumble ,I'm not crazy, I knew I had a HV supplyM: What are those plugins on those shelvesI: some plugins for the 547M: But I see 2 sizesI: no that is just optical distortion caused by the tears in your eyesM: I'm pretty sure they are for a 7000 scope,I: Maybe...they could be for my 7704 and 7603, but they are not in the lab so I do really not count them.I: I do not know what you mean with "do you have more scopes that are not in the lab ?"M: and that small baby scope in the livingroom ?I: That is part of my museum collection, I do not use it.M: collection ? so you have more ?I: oh, just 3 miniscopes...and maybe an old 19" HP but that is in the garage, that's all, honest...I: you want to see my garage ? Sorry, I lost the keys.....Multimeters, no clue, 30 to 50 ?counters: 5:analysers: 7 or sopowersupplies ?, never enoughbridges: no clue 10 ?Calibration gear: What did you ask ? I do not understand the question. Could be I have some. I'm not a real voltnut, Does a 19" rack count as 1 ?And It could be I have some special stuff here and there

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 02:01:12 pm
content: A question for the collectors here. What is your plan for your collection when you pass away? I'm looking for ideas as I recently attained the age of 70.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 02:11:26 pm
content: I only started on here in October/November. Since then I have:20 x Multi compartment component boxes - full.1 x DSO USB Scope30V/5A bench supply50V/20A bench supply48V/10A DC Power supply3 x multimeters10 x breadboards of various makes and sizes4 x Arduino Nanos1 x Arduino UNO2 x Bare AVR chips4 x Raspberry PIs50W Solar panel + Charge controller + SLANew toolbox, new pliers, new screwdriver, assorted tools and hardwareHundreds of Dupoint wiresDozen of banana cables/croc clips/quick clips2 x Audio amplifersSeveral dozen cheap chinese Adafruit clones and assorted sensor modulesNot to mention several 18650 LIon packs and 2x lithium chargers... and a large dent in my disposable income!It's not just Dave, those feckers Adam Welch, Jullian Llett, Great Scott and others can take some blame too!

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 03:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 04:40:33 amWhy do you need three DMM’s? Why do I need five DMM’s?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 03:53:54 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on January 05, 2018, 02:01:12 pmI'm leaving a lot of boxes and bubble wrap and some instructions in my will.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:01:49 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on January 05, 2018, 02:01:12 pmBuild a monument pyramid style and take it all with you. To make it proper pyramid style, you'd include any live members of the family.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 04:43:30 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 05, 2018, 04:01:49 pmFinally, a voice of logic and reason. :-)

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 05:00:03 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 05, 2018, 12:12:48 pmThat's only because you still have loads of caps left over of the right value for that scope, when they all get used up, look for another make / model and repeat the process.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 05:50:24 pm
content: That's a good point. I've got bags of left over electrolytic and tantalum caps!

author: neo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 05:51:38 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on January 05, 2018, 02:01:12 pmWell, and this is assuming anyone gives damn in 60 years or so, have them auction it off but with the kick of only letting people who know what the more obscure items are in to the auction.Something humorous like that anyways

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 01:15:48 pm
content: Just reading these sort of threads is enough to infect person... Im still very early in my collection, but last summer i bought hot air station, why? Because i wanted one in case of smd repair work. And have not used it once since got it... Excuses i make to hurt my wallet...Constantly fighting urge t get more...

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 04:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: lapm on January 06, 2018, 01:15:48 pmYes, but now you have one, and it is better to have it and not need it than the other way 'round... (This is a mantra that test gear addicts put to very good use for justification of purchases.)-Pat

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 04:10:29 pm
content: Hello all AddictsFor what I am currently doing, my Eevblog/Brymen 235 should be more than sufficient. So why am I getting all hot and bothered over the 121GW model?Russ

author: neo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 04:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 06, 2018, 04:10:29 pmI would guess that it might be because it appeals to you and you don't have one yet.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 07:09:25 pm
content: Quote from: neo on January 06, 2018, 04:26:07 pmExactly. Dammit! I’ll find a way to justify acquiring one. And guys are not helping at all with this new addiction.

author: neo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 07:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 06, 2018, 07:09:25 pmOh, you wanted helpescapingyour addiction? See, i thought you said you needed helpembracingyour addiction!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 07:39:40 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 06, 2018, 04:10:29 pmBecause your suffering from that well known zero syndrome, where you convince yourself that you simply can't manage without the extra digit or two.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 07:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 06, 2018, 07:39:40 pmThat syndrome has three stages.Stage 1: Need moar digits.Stage 2: Moar digits must show 0, e.g. 10.000 000 000 000 MHz or 5.0000000V.Stage 3: Moar test equipment to verify stage 2.

author: flowbee64
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 11:15:55 pm
content: Have you checked the expiration date on those caps? After all, they are filled with organic polymers that have a shelf life.Perhaps an additional LCR meter should be added to your collection.....

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:02:35 am
content: Quote from: neo on January 06, 2018, 04:26:07 pmSlight correction added above.-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:04:11 am
content: Quote from: Russ on January 06, 2018, 07:09:25 pmYes we are. You want to buy more stuff, right? See? We're helping. (We're just a bit 'unconventional' in our help.)-Pat

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:06:33 am
content: Quote from: flowbee64 on January 06, 2018, 11:15:55 pmDefinitely!! A very useful bit of kit, especially once we get you buying old stuff to restore.-Pat

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:32:16 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 07, 2018, 02:06:33 amyou're not kidding, I'm waiting on my 4th LCR meter / tester arrivingKeep looking for that holy grail, the perfect in circuit tester

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:47:45 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 02:32:16 amDo proper in circuit testers even exist? I gather the surrounding circuit will always interfere with the measurements taken.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:54:39 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 02:32:16 amYeah, I have like four of them, too.-Pat

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:00:21 am
content: Is there a Psychiatrist in the group?Russ

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:07:26 am
content: Quote from: Cubdriver on January 07, 2018, 02:54:39 amCorrection - five. I forgot about the ESI 251 I got a few months back because it has a panaplex display.Actually, I suppose technically six, as I have a Smart Tweezer hiding here somewhere, too.Ai yi yi!!-Pat

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:46:17 am
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 06, 2018, 07:59:09 pmCrap, why cant you guys be satisfied with the absolute pure true analog definition of one of these:It's time to put away yourtoys and upgrade to the reality of a real mechanical device showing you the true force made by the voltage your measuring in the physical realm...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:58:12 am
content: Quote from: Russ on January 07, 2018, 03:00:21 amI'll volunteer !Russ, lie on my couch and let me massage your wallet.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 11:08:16 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on January 07, 2018, 08:46:17 amYep, I very much doubt that voltnuttery existed back when analogue meters was the only game in town. Digital has a lot to answer for in my opinion

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 11:29:21 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 11:08:16 amOf course it did!I have working high-performance equipment from the 1940s and 1950s (saturated Weston standard cells and a 7-decade KVD respectively).At school we routinely measured voltages to 0.1% using only a metre ruler, a resistance wire, a standard cell, and a sensitive galvanometer. Normal analogue meters were 2%, and DMMs were unknown.But none of us could afford the equipment, just as now none of us can afford the equipment for, say, mmwave RF. Hence the aphorism in my .sig

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 11:54:56 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2018, 11:29:21 amThis is a very important point really. I make it an objective of mine to be able to solve all problems I have with much simpler equipment as well as commercial gear I purchase and repair, hence why I build things occasionally. This is resulting in a cache of small gadgets and primitive implementations of commercial gear. This entirely takes the repair, purchase and depreciation cycle away and teaches you how to get from A-B using more fundamental abstractions. At some point I probably won’t be able to afford the equipment that I have and I’d like to continue doing what I like doing so I can shed it without fear of leaving myself a black hole in a problem domain. Plus it’s not worth selling any home built gear; it’s worth pretty much nothing.An example, can I afford a tracking spectrum analyser? No I can’t. I can however afford to build a rudementary one and keep it alive forever. They’re pretty much just signal generators with receivers with power meter which I’ve built a few of each already.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 12:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 11:08:16 amIt did. Look at the left piece of paper stuck to the meter. Someone calibrated this thing.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 12:11:55 pm
content: It still does. I calibrated my home built voltmeter with a home built REF02 (top spec one) reference and a high linearity divider with a ten turn bourns pot (high end one - cost more than the bloody meter did) and a vernier dialI will do a separate thread on this at some point. I wrote some software which draws the dial based on the calibration data as well

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 12:50:17 pm
content: The whole point of calibrating or needing a calibrated analogue meter is debatable, certainly beyond a known set point that aligns perfectly with a division mark on the scale as one persons judgement on a portion of a section between two such divisions is subjective. On the other hand, digital meter that particular error is thus removed, even a cheap arse meter will read on a low scale to at least a 1/100th of a division. With 4,5,6,7,and 8 digit meters are even worse, there is no such subjectiveness, it is what it reads and if it reads 95uV then you really want to know that it is 95uV and not 95mV for example.I'm not aware of any analogue multimeter that claims to have an accuracy anywhere near that of say 4 digit reasonable multimeter, even with an anti parallax mirror the closest I think you can get would be .1 of volt.So yes, it was possible to calibrate analogue meters and indeed was a requirement to check other meters against to ensure that 15v was the as 15v on another meter surely but digital meters have moved the game on to far more significant digits and different calibration standards surely???

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 01:34:00 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 12:50:17 pmManymanufacturers made them. A few examples:Fluke 887 DC accuracy +- 0.0025% of input + 0.0001% of range +5uV from 0 to 1100 Vdc at nominal calibration temperature."Here are some pics of the Fluke 883A Differential Voltmeter I just acquired locally for $20. Once recapped this thing is damn near spot-on to my 6 1/2 digit Keithley! I didn't even let it fully warm up."https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-883a-differential-voltmeter-(pics)/Keithley 660A As potentiometer it can measure from 100 microvolts full scale to 500 volts, with an error lower than 0.02% in the ranges from 100 mV up.HP3420A 1uV to 1000V resolution 0.2uV 20ppm, providing you have an external reference voltage.http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1966-11.pdfSee the aphorism in my .sig

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 01:38:49 pm
content: Snap.Edit: "See the aphorism in my .sig" <-- that should be your new signatureQuote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 12:50:17 pmIt's more that the scale on an analogue meter isn't 100% linear, so you need to correct for any non-linearities of the movement on the scale. The actual absolute reading of the meter is wholly insignificant other than for indication and measurements within the scale of the meter movement.That is until you start using bridges etc. Then you can indeed measure quite frankly ridiculous accuracy with an analogue meter if you use that as a null indicator in a bridge for example. You can easily go down to 6 digits. Look at HP3420We're rather used to using high resolution DMMs as transfer standards. That perhaps is pushing it a bit with an analogue meter.Really though, one of the finest bits of kit ever made was the HP427A. That is very accurate compared to something like an Avo.edit 2: Also Philips PM2504 is pretty good. I had one for years but the movement finally died irrecoverably so it was sold to someone else as a parts mule for theirs.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 01:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 07, 2018, 01:38:49 pmI'm up against the character count limit, and recursion would confuse newbies.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:18:35 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2018, 01:34:00 pmThis has just confirmed my point, you are referring to dedicated voltmeters built to such a high standard that you would be hard pressed to back in the day to come across these anywhere other than in laboratories doing things way beyond what the average hobbyist would have been involved in. The hobbyist would have been using multimeters and the clue was in the description, and that to me would have been something lower than a AVO, maybe something like a TMK or even lower back at the time. A Fluke 887 and the ilk would have been many 100,s of £ compared to 10,s of £' A hobbyist then would have to estimate the value between any 2 known points on a scale, but a digital readout is another thing altogether, it will display what it thinks that value is and it raises the question "is that correct" whereas years ago a hobbyist would have been happy with his estimate.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 07, 2018, 01:38:49 pmAgain the meters referred to here are once again in the highly specialised areas of professional labs and manufacturers rather than hobbyists, only the very well heeled could have afforded instruments of that quality back then and today a moderately priced multimeter could certainly rival their performance and is affordable to many hobbyists can and do run to such meters as the price of that level of performance has dropped. So once again the comparison is hardly a fair fight, rather like comparing the performance of a current F1 car with that of an average family runabout.I struggled to find any reference material on the HP3420 which highlights just how rare they were. And that leads me onto something that pisses me off, why do manufacturers insist on using the same name/number for different products in the annals of time? It seems that HP used that 3420 for both a printer and a computer???

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:42:54 pm
content: With HP, stick an A or B on the end. They didn't do that with their computer products:http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1966-11.pdfI think the point should be that accuracy isn't really required that much. You can build very complex signal processing chains, digital and analogue with a DT830 and some imagination. Just as you could with that old TMK, or in my case shitty old Micronta.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:08:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 07, 2018, 02:42:54 pmWell yes you can and that was part of my point, just how far are people prepared to go for that accuracy and is that accuracy really and truthfully fully justified? I can some instances where that could be, i.e. guided weapons for instance where you need to fire a missile from 100's of miles away get it to hit its intended target within a metre or less to prevent collateral damage to many innocent civilians who may be in a hospital next to a military target for example. But generally speaking such accuracy is not really required, is it another form of mines better then yours syndrome?In that case I'm just as guilty as the rest of us, hell yes,I'd love to have a 8.5 digit meter, those digits are so alluring but what real advantage does that give me over an AVO or a reasonable 3.5 digit multimeter when all I really need to know is if the meter when it reads 15V or 4.7kohms really means its pretty close to to 15v or to 4.7kohnms as it can get and not be say 20v or 6kohms.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 03:08:59 pmExcellent question.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:31:08 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 02:18:35 pmI think your assertion was ambiguous. I parsed it as (any analogue multimeter)...(4 digit reasonable multimeter), not a comparable or reasonable analogue meter.Besides, I indicated that schoolkids were taught how to get 3 digit accuracy from a piece of wire; some 4 digit DMMs would be pushed to do that! Plus a 10m wire (plus ruler) was all that would have been necessary to get 4 digit accuracyNot rocket science.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:36:40 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 03:08:59 pmI have always been very careful, both professionally and as an amateur, to distinguish "must", "want", "would like", "convenient", "cost effective".Clearly my having an 8 digit DMM is a "would like". OTOH I've seen a company spend 50*salary on a piece of hardware simply because it shortened the dev cycle by 3 months (i.e <<50*salary) - because it ensured a market window was hit.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:50:55 pm
content: Just a point on missile guidance, and a considerably more difficult job of getting the moon attached to a stick, a lot of the guidance systems are inertial as (a) there isn’t any absolute precision measure outside the atmosphere and (b) if there were, jamming it is going to give you a headache. Really even your laser painted guidance systems work on the same basis where the laser is “head in that general direction”. There’s a huge amount of error incurred over time with inertial navigation so you have to use multiple references, accept the error or periodically correct for it by giving whatever a nudge in the other direction.There’s an incredible amount of error and very little precision available. For fuel calculations they ballpark it and add a percentage! Even SpaceX did this and lost a booster because they didn’t make a good enough estimate.Same applies to measurements really. Look at the difficulty that lead to things like chopper and low drift op amps.I reckon you could build a guidance system with a DT830. I reckon you could get to the moon with a DT830 and crap Casio calculator (incidentally the emergency navigation computers on the space shuttle were HP41 calculators apparently). Problem comes is no one can make a traceable measurement or calculation with them.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 03:57:02 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2018, 03:31:08 pmSorry about that, I thought my post #83 would have shown my position, most of the time we don't need to have a meter calibrated to the nth degree, we convince ourselves that really cannot do without those extra digits. In industry that may be the case but certainly not so for the vast majority of hobbyists, we would like to have those extra digits, I know I would, simply because they exist. I would like to have a Rolls Royce, but do I need one, and can I afford one are 2 questions that spring to mind. Now that analogy may be OTT and that opens up a rabbit hole that I don't propose to go down.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:06:23 pm
content: In industry, 99% of the time if it needs more then about 2 digits of precision you are doing it wrong!There is seldom much to be gained by more then that in a production system, and I would tend to argue for this position even in an electronics lab, a physics or bio lab may need more in a research context, but one should take measures to ensure that that does not transfer to a requirement on production machinery.I have 5.5 digit instruments, but they are hardly ever used at that level, most of the time my Avo 8 would do just fine.Regards, Dan.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on January 07, 2018, 05:06:23 pmJust so, with one proviso. Sometimes high resolution (+stability) is more important that high precision.I once worked for a company that sold an instrument that measure coax attenuation with a resolution of 0.001dB. Nobody cared that the precision was only 0.1dB. It was used to assess thechangein attenuation with temperature, so they could predict what would happen when it was flung over the side of a ship.Always wish I'd surreptitiously cut off a sliver of the 61.8ohm TAT-7 that was in the lab!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:24:07 pm
content: Quote from: dmills on January 07, 2018, 05:06:23 pmThank you for your support, I agree with your comments and I still say that there are occasions when more digits are an asset, such as tracing a short circuit on a PCB, but often in reality it would be cheaper to replace the PCB then purchase a meter with extra digits. DMM's are far more accurate then a Avo 8 can ever be especially when working on live electronic circuits because of the OPV having a major impact on the loading of circuit components and could alter things while the meter is connected, and hence one of the reasons why VTVM's where introduced to help cure that problem, but as long as the loading effect is taken into the equation, no problem. How often do you come across schematics of the older gear where it specifically states in the manual that all voltages were taken using an instrument of 20,000opv for instance, use DMM with a value of something like 11M then you will notice considerable differences in certain parts of the circuit.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 05:24:07 pmNewbies (which you aren't) often think digital displays are better than analogue displays. That can easily be shown to be misguided by considering a cockpit...An artificial horizon is far easier to interpret than a display saying -35.6degrees roll, 43.6degrees pitch (no, now -45.4 roll, 22.6 pitch...).If you are monitoring 50 instruments, then it really helps if every "situation normal" measurement has the needle pointing vertically. Makes it easy to spot the outlier!

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:36:07 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2018, 05:33:10 pmTotally agree, digital displays in that context overload the brain.

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:51:25 pm
content: My Mechatronics Instructor is a Math/Electronics genius, and swears by digital. But, he insists that we know how to use analog too.Russ

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:51:37 pm
content: Also digital displays are crap at showing rate of change.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 05:53:53 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 07, 2018, 05:33:10 pmWhat cockpit is that where the dials point vertical for "normal"?I can only think of two cockpit instruments that do that and they are the ammeter and turn indicator. Possibly cylinder head temp and battery voltage.Airspeed... nope.Altitude.. nope (what is normal?)Prop Rpm... nopeManifold pressure.. nope.Fuel, nope.Fuel flow, nope.Most modern cockpits the PRIMARY integrated flight information display, which includes the artificial horizon is a digital colour LCD panel. The back up / standby artificial horizon is still the gyro stabilised floating ball style device but these days it's about 2" across and hidden away.Analogue gauges cost more to make and require much more maintenance and calibration testing. Which is why they are almost entirely phased out in these days of "glass cockpits"http://innovative-ss.com/products/flat-panel-displays/eids-engine-instrument-display-system/

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 06:09:55 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 07, 2018, 05:51:37 pmAnalog displays are also crap at showing rate of change.Very slow change, e.g. 1mV per minute from 24V. Digital with many digits is the best.Fast change, e.g. 1V per second from 24V. Analog is the best.Fast random changes. Both digital and analog is crap.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 06:22:52 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on January 07, 2018, 05:53:53 pmThe old, obsolete, flight engineer's panel tended toward that. There was also a tendency for an important subset of them to slowly rotate anticlockwisetogether, as the fuel was used. The main point is that it is much easier to see outliers (and assess the significance) in a set of analogue meters than in a set of digital meters.The only cockpits I've used have only had one important meter (analogue) and two useful meters (analogue) - and before going solo you had to do a flight with them all covered up, so that you didn't panic when (not if) they failedActually, one of the "useful" analogue meter is usually duplicated:digital version, only useful in a raceaudio version of the digital meter; used all the time without looking at it (doh)analogue meter good for quick glances, especially when the audio is beeping/booping strenuouslyThe important meter was the ASI, the useful analogue / digital meters were varios, and the other vaguely useful analogue meter was the altimeter.The turn indicator was your eyes, ears, and theveryanalogue yawstring

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 06:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 07, 2018, 06:09:55 pmWith an average of say 3 readings per second, digital suck at fast rates of change especially when you have to concentrate on whether the display is counting up or down along with other meters to monitor. I was monitoring the output of a SMPS recently with multiple DMM's and it was switching off before I was able to establish which rails were reading right and if any were not up to to spec in order to see if it was failing because the of a feedback fault or not. Switching to analogue resolved the problem because the needles would swing rapidly to the full value before the SMPS switched off.If your looking at a slow rate of change, digital is fine and in many cases better, like in the example you gave.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 06:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 07, 2018, 06:09:55 pmNot necessarily true. The human brain is well adapted to spotting slowchangesover time, and to assessing when they will become a problem.Canonical examples: fuel gauges, compass heading indicators.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 06:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 07, 2018, 06:28:57 pmBut the analog movement is a mechanical low pass filter. It doesn't show an accurate representation of quickly changing signals. Better to use a digital oscilloscope (with suitable differential probes in case of a SMPS).

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:01:01 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 07, 2018, 06:50:27 pmAssuming that I had a DSO and with enough channels which I don't.

author: THATguy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:01:33 pm
content: Wait until you learn that electrons are actually negative and the electricity actually flows the opposite directions in DC circuits!And that electronics is really electromagnetism, and everything is energy waves!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:03:42 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 07, 2018, 06:50:27 pmThat can be put to good use, as we did in school physics lessons.Ballistic galvanometers measure charge. I haven't seen any such digital meter, but I presume they exist.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:07:00 pm
content: Just as a point, the coil on a moving coil meter is a good frequency indicator from around 100Hz-15KHz too. Just stick it on the wrong range across AC and listen to the awful squealing coming out. I can guess that to 1-2KHz.Caution: single measurement use only. May emit parts or smoke.I’ve drawn a tree of measurement capabilities and I think that if you wanted to do everything minimally, a 50Mhz analogue scope and a fixed voltage power supply covers you for all major classes of measurement with an accuracy enough to get stuff done. Nothing else is required. Not even a meter.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 07, 2018, 07:07:00 pmShame, I was quite looking forward to testing this new fangled disposable frequency meter thingy too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 07:26:36 pm
content: I’ve got a few moving coil meters floating around so I shall demonstrate when I get some time. I’ll do a video of it. I’ll use an audio FFT app on my phone and drive it off the DDS. That can knock out enough current to murder one.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:28:14 pm
content: Cruelty to meters is not acceptable, it's a piece if TEA equipment that you're meanttomto be cherishing not sending it skyward on a Non return ticket

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:41:27 pm
content: These are just the movements not anything nice.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 10:11:17 pm
content: Quote from: Russ on January 04, 2018, 05:48:03 pmDo you have any temperature meters to measure fewer?

author: Russ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 01:06:15 am
content: This is an illness. I already have four DMM’s, yet I am looking forward to the arrival of my cheap Aneng 8009 meter. WTF?Russ

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 02:07:01 am
content: Quote from: Russ on January 08, 2018, 01:06:15 amIts just the excitement of a new toy arriving, don't worry we all feel like that, personally, I can't wait for my new items to arrive, each and everyday I look forward to my doorbell being rung as it might be one of my new additions being delivered. It doesn't matter if its spare parts for one of my repairs or a new piece of TEA gear. I don't expect that I'll be the only to say that either, ask anyone of us and I think you'll get a very similar response. Relax and enjoy the journey as for having 4 DMMs, my response is only 4? I have 9.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 02:48:47 am
content: Quote from: Russ on January 08, 2018, 01:06:15 amI see.Can you tell me when you first became aware of this longing for DMMs?Did you have a happy childhood?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 10:12:47 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 08, 2018, 02:48:47 amMy answer is "During my happy childhood, doctor".

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 12:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 07, 2018, 12:07:09 pmExcellent point. They got it down to 3.5 digit precision...

author: Ero-Shan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2018, 06:59:08 pm
content: Quote from: Specmaster on January 04, 2018, 06:44:22 pmUgh! I didn't even do a real inventory apart from the scopes (owing to that "20 scopes" thread). And yes, I do have exactly 20 scopes. And about 20 power supplies, 40+ DMM, 5 (or was it 6?) counters, around 12 big old (4 1/2 digit) panel meters, 1 LCR meter (not counting that cheap transistor/diode/scr/L/C/R/FET/whatever meter), 2 VTVM, 4 function generators, 3 solder stations, 1 desolder station, 6 decade resistor boxes, a 30 inch monitor in my lab and a 42 inch (4k) monitor at my real computer, but alas no RF generator, no microscope, no SMD rework station. I might be leading when the score is on pure numbers, but I'm sure you'll run rings around me when it comes to overall quality and breadth. So many things still to add ...