East Tester ET3502 LCR-Bridge - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 03:29:14 pm
content: Hi...My new toy arrived today, a ET3502.The prices were so good in June that I thought OK, it's worth a try.This bridge is available with measuring frequencies from 100kHz to 1Mhz, I bought the 200kHz version, of course in the silent hope that something could be done about it.But even if not, at the moment the parts are so cheap that I would have no problem buying the 3510, if it's any good.And we'll find out in this thread.It arrived in just under 14 days, which is fast.I also had to pay less import fees than I thought, which is a bit annoying because I could have bought the 300khz version straight away.Here are pictures after arrival, more will follow when I have had a closer look.There was also a small CD in the box, but broken in half - I have made an inquiry to ET...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 04:12:29 pm
content: That thing is HUGE!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 04:43:56 pm
content: Jepp,And at first you get a fright when you open the appliance... A bit airy.But with hindsight, it all makes sense.The measuring unit, the interfaces, the supply unit and the control unit hidden in the front (probably a single-board computer), all separated from each other, the measuring board completely alone in the basement, shielded from the base plate, everything else is also made of metal (except for the front, of course) and the size is determined by the 7" display.That already looks good.Let's see how to dismantle the front panel.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 05:24:12 pm
content: Nice choice using an actual network cable.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 08:35:21 pm
content: if you take the trouble to calibrate the device, it gives very accurate results.I haven't tested more than the 100 Ohm(ref: 100.017) resistance yet, I'm a bit desperate with the LAN settings.DHCP set to "On" has no effect, I may have to ask East Tester again.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 09:12:13 pm
content: Can't you turn off DHCP and manually set the IP?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2024, 09:51:08 pm
content: Yes, but I really wanted it that way and no other way....Tomorrow I'll try it manually.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2024, 12:57:48 am
content: is the gpib port really active on thiswhy the board is empty on so many partsdoes it connect under it thru the handler pcb ?the lan cable from the front to the back seems only be somekind of a pass thru, they could have used a chassis mount female female plug ??yeah yeah cost ...i use them on some enclosure2015 motherboard design ?? u-fl to bnc cables ?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2024, 01:23:19 pm
content: Why not?Here a short video about the selftest of the ET3502:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kOLz0sYcEp2XxJJ5ROFvkBhz6mw2mctL/view?spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.61793e5fl2vFrx&usp=sharing[edit:deleted]

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 03:43:20 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 01, 2024, 09:51:08 pmI'm sorry I haven't done any more tests with the device yet, but I've really got stuck on the LAN thing.DHCP doesn't work, neither does manual, so I contacted ET, who are currently very helpful, even if the communication itself is a bit sluggish (a Chinese is talking to a German and both can barely speak English....)They sent me the 111-page manual, the SCPI protocol and a new firmware for the front unit, since then I know that there are four sections, each with its own firmware.I installed them this morning, but somehow it had no effect.Since ET themselves sent me instructions on how to configure the LAN interface manually, I assume that DHCP doesn't work anyway.Since they also sent me the SCPI list with the update and the instructions, I assume that the device does not have a web server and that I will always get the message "Connection refused" when I enter the IP address in my browser.So I started PuTTy and entered the IP I specified there - doesn't work either....Now they want to send me a video tomorrow on how to do it.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 04:09:27 pm
content: Did you start with something basic like sending pings to the device?Is it directly connected to a router/switch? One with LEDs for status indication?If direct connection or old switch: Did you consider the straight/crossed cable issue?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 04:13:55 pm
content: I have connected it in the same way as the other devices with LAN before, which also work with it.In other words, via the router (Fritz Box).On the ET3502, a green LED lights up permanently on the LAN socket when the cable is plugged in and a yellow LED flashes slowly.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 04:17:03 pm
content: for sure they love videos .....

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 04:56:51 pm
content: And did you try to ping it? I would try this before any other way of communicating with a device via LAN.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 05:00:00 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on July 03, 2024, 04:17:03 pmIn Germany, there is a saying "An image tells more than 1000 Words", so with 60fps its more than 60000 words per second. not bad

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 06:58:33 pm
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on July 03, 2024, 04:09:27 pmNow I did...

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:16:45 pm
content: O.K., so you know that the IP-address is configured correctly and that the connection is working properly. The next level would involve talking to the device on specific ports. Do the documents mention LXI?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:26:47 pm
content: No.I had performed a scan with Nmap.All ports closed except for one, 6666 TCP.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:40:38 pm
content: Can you talk to it by RS232 and/or USB?Best,

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:44:09 pm
content: 6666 sounds not very conventional. But worth a try to see if putty in telnet-mode talks with it on that port.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on July 03, 2024, 07:40:38 pmYes, did it last evening with Test Controller and some SCPI commands, no problem.I also wanted to find out the MAC address, but all commands containing LAN were answered with "null".

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:53:19 pm
content: At least they are providing firmware updates even many years after the release of a device. So there is the hope that one aspect or the other may be fixed in future.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 07:56:43 pm
content: We had already seen this with the ET44/45XX.Apparently 2024 is a year when a lot of things came out...My ET3502 was built in 01/2024, the new firmware for the front is from april....

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 08:08:10 pm
content: Don't know if this makes any sense, but 6666 is an IRC port. So if there is no success with putty and you like experimenting, you could see if it talks to an IRC-client.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2024, 08:46:20 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on July 02, 2024, 12:57:48 amGPIB is optional avaible.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 10:12:00 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 03, 2024, 03:43:20 pmWell...2 videos even, but they are so compressed that you can hardly recognize what is happening on the screen.But one thing I have to say explicitly is that East Tester makes a real effort to help, almost tirelessly.However, the language barrier is a big factor, so we haven't found a solution yet and will continue tomorrow.What I took away from today is that a different port address was entered in the video.I only have the ominous port 6666 free.I had found a program with which I could connect to the ET3502 via this port.But if you send a command (in hex...), you get a quasi endless response until the device freezes.Something is not quite right.Perhaps this will be resolved tomorrow, then I can finally start with the actual testing.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 10:30:38 pm
content: It's possible your port sniffer missed the correct port for a number of reasons. If the port was blocked for any reason, including the LCR not being setup correctly for remote communication for example.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2024, 11:21:45 pm
content: We will hopefully see "tomorrow".However, it is also a waste of time since it has become clear that the LAN connection is not the connection to a web server and therefore nothing can be done with it that could not also be done via the Usb or RS232 port.But somehow I want it to work, so I'll stay on the ball and when this is clarified, I'll continue with the testing.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 05:40:56 pm
content: The boys are killing me....At first they thought I was too stupid for the LAN connection and kindly advised me to use USB or RS232 instead.Then I sent them another video where you can see that there is an endless "response" from port 6666.And then I made the mistake and sent a screenshot of the test controller program, where you can see that SCPI communication is possible, but everything that has to do with LAN, all status requests, are answered with "null".What was the answer?Whether I would have tried RS232 instead of USB....OK.....I'll do them a favor and send them a screenshot of where I used the RS232.And this time I have labeled the lines in good/fail.Let's see what the answer is..

author: ZhuraYuk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 07:17:21 pm
content: Such emptiness inside, definitely not worth 450USD they were asking for it during summer sale.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 07:21:22 pm
content: They can put in a few more stones for you to make it look like "more".

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 09:27:20 pm
content: You don't put the  part in brackets.Brackets just means its optional, so a similar command would be::SYSTem:COMMunicate:LAN:SELF:AUToip:STATehttps://rfmw.em.keysight.com/spdhelpfiles/33500/webhelp/us/content/__I_SCPI/00%20scpi_introduction.htm

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 09:44:22 pm
content: And you need to type less if you just leave out the non-capital letters.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 09:46:11 pm
content: I just copied it directly from the manual and paste it in the commandline....I will try it again, thanks guys!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 09:55:37 pm
content: No changes...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2024, 09:51:35 pm
content: Not really, see pic.And you know what?It didn't matter to me, after I posted this screenshot ET, they came back asking me to test USB/RS232 - We get into an endless loop....They are trying very hard, but I have the feeling that the person who is looking after me has no idea about the whole thing.I'm going to ignore the LAN thing and concentrate on the device itself and post results.I think I'll get back to it later tomorrow evening.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2024, 08:42:49 pm
content: Ready...Comparison measurement of five different meters with the LCR values of the DMMCheck Plus.I will complete the table tomorrow.There were no surprises, only the realization that the Kelvin cables are not the best, not to mention the clips.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 04:35:14 pm
content: So, the results.I will also share them in the ET44/4510 thread and of course in the ST42 thread.I left the test frequency at 10kHz as the reference was measured at that frequency.And I repeated the R measurement because all devices except the ET3502 can do DCR measurements.Overall a good picture, every measuring device can be used...However, I went crazy when measuring the smallest L value with the leads of the East-Tester devices.It is definitely worth buying better leads for these LCRs, they deserve it.What follows here are other measurements on larger components, the presentation of the individual menus of the ET3502.And later, say in 2 weeks, the presentation of the ET3503...

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 04:58:01 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 12, 2024, 04:35:14 pmGet some Tonghui TH26011CS Kelvin Clip leads, they are much betterAlso, for measuring small Z components at higher frequencies (like small L) consider using either an SMD fixture, or Leaded DUT fixture like Tonghui TH26048A and B&K TL89F1.With a proper test fixture and/or quality Kelvin Clips measurement uncertainty should be reduced, enhancing repeatabilityBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 01:48:13 pm
content: TongHui....Sourcetronic.I then had a look at their website:https://www.sourcetronic.com/shop/en/lcr-meters/accessories/?p=1Three (!) pages of accessories...I think I'll probably spend some money.For the ET35xx range it would definitely be worth it, for the smaller ET44/45xx possibly too, but I'm out of the game there.I will only keep the ET35xx, because even if it has one or two "pitfalls" due to the cost, it is basically very accurate in the things I have tested so far and therefore gets better test leads/adapters from the proceeds of the smaller devices.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 03:20:33 pm
content: All these fixtures/cables/clips appear to be Tonghui rebrands, our comments refer to the Tonghui specifications.The ST26011Bis specified out to 5MHz, worth the extra $ considering.The ST29009B Tweezers are good to 15MHz, we have these too (the tweezer end of the ST26029B appear to be the very poor tweezer types, best to avoid). Rarely use the Tweezers for SMD devices tho, the SMD mounts like the ST29008A (clones) are what we find more useful.The ST2048 leaded fixture is also very good, don't forget the shorting bar ST26010.Many of the quality fixtures/cables came with our TH2830 like the TH26011C, TH2048A and TH26010 as standard, making the TH2830 LCR meter a good value IMHO.Anyway, SourceTronics looks like a good Tonghui resource for you folks across the pondBest,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 05:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on July 13, 2024, 03:20:33 pmSourcetronic also hasexcellentcustomer service, something I would never accuse TongHui of. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 10:45:58 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 12, 2024, 04:35:14 pmI'm still a bit busy with the camera settings, you're not used to taking screenshots with a camera anymore...QuoteI actually did that, I bought another ET3503, of course it costs more than a 3502, but as a 300kHz model it would be much cheaper than anything else on the market.Why did I do that?Well, after an endless number of correspondences between me and East Tester, they must have realized that the LAN interface on my device was actually defective - or they gave up and thought I was an idiot who could only be stopped by agreeing with him.They then offered a small discount because a) I still had the RS232 and USB interfaces that worked and b) they didn't want to take the device back because the loss would probably be too great.a) is definitely true, because the LAN interface has nothing that the other two don't have.However, I'm a “monk” when it comes to such things, I don't like them.So I wanted to buy another device and thought, wait a minute, if I'm going to do this, then at least one frequency higher.The 500kHz and even more so the 1Mhz version fell flat, they would be super cheap compared to other manufacturers with the same frequencies, but too expensive for testing.But it had to be a different, higher frequency - you can imagine why...So the ET3503.Costs over €200 more but it was worth it to me.I will then offer the ET3502 very cheaply, so to speak with the discount.But only when I have compared the two.

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 12:36:12 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 01, 2024, 03:29:14 pmI have the original CD if you need it. It has the huge manual for the unit.Here is the manual:https://www.easttester-cn.com/uploads/ET35-SERIES-BENCHTOP-HIGH-FREQUENCY-LCRMETER-LCR-BRIDGE-USER-MANUAL.pdfCan you provide the details around the firmware update? When I asked them about two years ago they did not have one. Attached screen of the version numbers.Also, another trap that you might see. The device does not boot when there is DHCP set to "ON" and no network cable plugged into the device. You have to have the network cable plugged in.

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 12:41:47 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 04, 2024, 11:21:45 pmYou are correct. There is no webserver installed on the device. No web interface.Dwaine

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 01:20:22 pm
content: Hi,QuoteHow did you manage that, is there a screenshot function?

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 02:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 12, 2024, 04:35:14 pmAs a naive amateur, the lesson I take home is that unless/until one is working in RF, the Shannon Tweezers cannot be beat.I do understand that capacitance changes drastically depending upon the circuit in which it is used, by 80%? So I get the need for a modern bridge for advanced work. But for those of us starting the hike, the ST 42 is looking to be the way to go.I am going through Dave's Capacitor playlist, and I am learning choosing capacitors is not as "easy" as it was 60 years ago. Fascinating.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 02:21:11 pm
content: Hi,QuoteYou can see it that way, although of course it has a few limitations compared to LCR bridges.But for ‘normal’ use, nobody needs to set up a benchtop meter, the tweezers are easily sufficient, no question.And in case you need to measure larger components, see here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/shannon-st42-lcr-tweezer-test-and-comparison-thread/msg5579359/#msg5579359

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 03:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: watchmaker on July 21, 2024, 02:10:19 pmWith all due respect for the Shannon Tweezers if one studies the specs and features this generally favors the handheld LCR meters unless one is constantly dealing with SMD and SMD already on PCB (Repair Shop), the Handheld LCR meters such as the DER-5000 are the more useful GP Instrument (larger display helps). Also, one can always use available tweezers cables so SMD devices aren't off limits for handhelds.Of course in a proper lab one should have bothThen the Lab Grade Bench LCR Meters like the ET comes into play and the deep dive begins, don't ask how we knowWRT Capacitors, they are the most variable electronic component of all (outside semiconductors), with so many variations it's hard to keep up. Even within a given capacitor type like Ceramic, you have all the dielectrics materials and parameters to deal with, and all the physical variations, then the Plastic Film types and Electrolytics, Aluminum/Tantalum, Polymers and on and on.It's almost like one needs a PhD in capacitors to just understand them!!Best,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:10:19 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on July 21, 2024, 03:18:59 pmI hated the tweezers that came with the DE5000, so I killed them and used the connector to make kelvin clips instead.I 100% agree that people should have both smart tweezers and an alternate LCR meter.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:22:57 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 21, 2024, 01:20:22 pmRTFM.....Again.But I think I'll take an extra stick for it, because at the moment every picture is overwritten by the last one.I also don't necessarily need to have the system message at the bottom left.But at least it works rudimentarily.Edit:Interesting, I couldn't upload it from the stick, the forum software was complaining.Although .png ending, the image was over 1MB in size....Then I “edited” it (just opened it with Paint) and saved it again.And lo and behold, only a few kB left...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:37:29 pm
content: 30 seconds to take a screenshot???Is it scanning 1 pixel at a time? 🤣

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:45:06 pm
content: It's not that long after all...But it could be much shorter if such a picture wasn't over 1MB in size.I think I need to talk to the guys again, because it doesn't matter what I do, I only ever get the picture from the measurement display, nothing else.But maybe Dwaine knows how to do it properly.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:58:40 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 21, 2024, 06:10:19 pmAgree, those tweezers are very poor, unfortunately we have them tooWe don't use Tweezers of any type often, much prefer the Bench Type LCR Meter SMD fixtures with better repeatability, however if we must measure SMD devices on a PCB then Tweezers are a must!!One could mate the type that Tonghui uses in the TH26009B and things would be much better, altho not sure where you could find them cheaply, as the TH26009B are ~$180.Best,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 08:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on July 21, 2024, 06:58:40 pmYeah, they cost as much or more than smart tweezers. The best price I found for them was $118, but haven't ordered them yet because I don't know if they're legit...and I don't really need them. 😉

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 08:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 21, 2024, 08:16:41 pmThey are good tweezers and have a BW of 15MHz, well beyond any of the complete type tweezers we're familiar with.We've used them with our IM3536 to 8MHz, and happy with results/performance, but then gain they are tweezers and we prefer SMD LCR fixtures.I wouldn't trust any source that's not a Tonghui certified source, as you don't know what you are getting. They may even say Tonghui with Logo, but who knows where they've been or could be total OEM rejects, or complete counterfeit.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 08:41:41 pm
content: Personally, I have no doubt that Sourcetronic's products originate 1:1 from TongHui.I could find out, but I don't see the point.Either way, I will buy Sourcetronic accessories for my ET35, even if they are a bit more expensive.You can still use them for another device, e.g. for an R&S LCX (cough...)...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 11:38:44 pm
content: I would also rather give Sourcetronic my money instead of Tonghui. I don't trust Tonghui as a direct source either. 😉I would love an R&S LCX. I bet those are sweeeet.

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 11:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 21, 2024, 01:20:22 pmYep there is a screenshot save. Hit the save button and then the screenshot menu option. It saves the screenshots as png file.Can you share the firmware update?Dwaine

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 01:17:27 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 21, 2024, 11:38:44 pmMe too!! Just maybe a Tonghui Rebrand?Some of R&S stuff looks suspiciously like Tonghui, especially some of the LCR fixturesBest,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 01:36:02 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on July 22, 2024, 01:17:27 amI sincerely doubt R&S would use Tonghui...firmware. The images I've seen certainly look nothing like the Tonghui fw.I would guess R&S also designs their main hardware. I would not be surprised if they rebrand the fixtures though. They'd obviously not be the only ones. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 07:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: Dwaine on July 21, 2024, 11:48:38 pmI can give you the firmware, but if you can take a snapshot of every screen until then, I wouldn't use it for now.I always get a screenshot of the measurement screen and that seems to be “right” at the moment:QuoteI replied that it wasn't that great (although in principle it was correct, because what more could you want than the measurement results), they thanked me very much and we'll see what happens next.I don't know to what extent this new firmware is responsible for this, so use the file at your own risk.

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:27:27 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 22, 2024, 07:54:09 pmI guess your device is updated to a more recent version than mine.1. I only have update option, not the 1 select option to update the Main.2. The folder name has to be updatefile on the usb key.3. My device only accepts a filename of ET35*.upt not hex files.Maybe I'l send East Tester an email and ask them.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:48:54 pm
content: You certainly know the saying about never changing a running system...I got the update from ET after I complained about the DHCP option not working.In the system I have the option of updating three different sectors or all of them.At the moment I can only take one screenshot of the measuring display and I can only save one image at a time instead of xxx in a row.If this works with your ET35, I would leave it as it is.But of course you can ask.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2024, 09:54:32 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 21, 2024, 11:38:44 pmLCX100 is the “smallest” model, but can be upgraded to 10Mhz and graphic display (sweep) via software upgrades.I don't want to rule out that such a device could be mine one day, but until then I could be satisfied with the ET35.It doesn't sound that good yet, but it's already prettygood in principle.I will be demonstrating this in the coming weeks, the device can certainly compete with one from TH/ST.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 03:41:21 pm
content: The ET3503 arrived today.There is no difference in the system apart from the model number, i.e. the frequency information is stored somewhere, you just need to know where.Oh yes, and DHCP doesn't work there either.Or is it my network, I can't imagine, because all the devices connected to it have DHCP active.Then why shouldn't the ET35 work...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 04:04:21 pm
content: What does the network config screen look like?

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 04:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 22, 2024, 07:54:09 pmSeems these are sold with some other names, too:Code:ET3500AET3500ET35014092AET35024092BET35034092CET35054092DET35104092E087108700872VICTOR 4092A0880VICTOR 4092B0881VICTOR 4092C0882VICTOR 4092D0883

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 05:00:44 pm
content: How do you get this data out of the hex file?@Josh:See pic...Normally I know that when you activate DHCP, it takes a while and then the network data is “pulled”.Here the menu remains as it is, regardless of whether it is on or off(DHCP).

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 05:39:15 pm
content: I've usedIntel_HEX_2.02 to convert it into a binary:Code:Intel_HEX_2.02/src/hex -o ET35.MAIN.V2.01.2416.001.bin ET35.MAIN.V2.01.2416.001.hexIntel HEX File Processing Software. Version 2.02. Copyright (C) 2023 Vitalij FedichevHEX file reading: 'ET35.MAIN.V2.01.2416.001.hex'BIN file created: 'ET35.MAIN.V2.01.2416.001.bin'and strings to extract the strings from it:Code:strings ET35.MAIN.V2.01.2416.001.bin |lessThen I scrolled trough the strings. They are often interesting.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 05:47:44 pm
content: What happens if you blank out the IP address?It shouldn't matter, but you can also try using a stricter netmask.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 05:48:20 pm
content: That looks a bit interesting, too:Code:V2.00.2129.001V2.01.2416.001V1.10.1520.011V1.10.1506.002V1.10.1506.002F.V2.02.2020.3.7192.168.0.123255.255.0.0192.168.0.1orCode:Model error,please contact the manufacturer!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 06:32:03 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 31, 2024, 05:47:44 pmNothing.Funnily enough, the self-test says that ethernet is OK.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 06:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 31, 2024, 06:32:03 pmMaybe it is! Maybe that's literally the only thing the ethernet can do. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 06:56:54 pm
content: In terms of function, it wouldn't matter, as it can do no more than the two serial interfaces.But I'm interested in the principle.It seems to work with Dwaine, his ET35 has an old firmware, so the key must be there.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:00:55 pm
content: Hello,can you enter an IP address manually. If so, is it recognized by your router?In my case, all IP addresses start with 192.168.178 and the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 and the Gateway is 192.168.178.1Best regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:15:13 pm
content: Hi,I've already been through all that with the ET3502, and the ET3503 will be no different.I entered the network data manually “back then” and the router recognized it briefly.But then the ET35 seems to “close”.You can also see this on the Ethernet socket, on the status LEDs.After switching on, “traffic” can be seen for a short time and then it is quiet.I asked East Tester to test this before sending the ET3503 and they promised to do so.It also took longer for the status message to change to “shipped”.But either they were just pretending, or it “works” for them and they'll think I'm an idiot by now - or they and I have completely different ideas about what an Ethernet port is and how to control it.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:47:00 pm
content: There is one more IP mentioned in the firmware:Code:192.168.0.70Did you listen with a packet-sniffer what it says before the ethernet connection hangs up?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 07:54:35 pm
content: Not to date, no.Is there a recommendation as to which tool is good for this?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 08:03:40 pm
content: Why are there even IPs in the fw?? Trying manually setting one the listed IPs from the fw and see if it makes a difference.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 08:12:03 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on July 31, 2024, 08:03:40 pmIt think the first set contained just the default settings. But the last one I've found was completely separate. That is the one, which can make one curious.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 08:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 31, 2024, 07:54:35 pmI would try tcpdump, but I'm living in a linux world. Don't know what windows users would prefer. Maybe you have a raspi with linux installed that could try to talk to the meter?

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 08:23:40 pm
content: Wireshark was mentioned before with the ET4xxx serial communication. It seems to do ethernet, too. Maybe worth a try.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2024, 08:29:09 pm
content: Quote from: w.v.s. on July 31, 2024, 08:18:42 pmI still have “Ubuntu on Windows” on my notebook.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2024, 10:01:41 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 31, 2024, 07:15:13 pmYou have to hand it to the people at East Tester, they are really keen to help.Today they sent me 2 videos to show that it works, they even downloaded the program I used last to show that it works.And they emphasized again that they had explicitly tested the ET3503 before sending it out.I believe them too, but somehow information must be lost between them and me as to why it works for them but not for me.The language barrier is high, they can't speak English, I can't speak Chinese, it all goes through the alibaba translator.....What you have to say goodbye to is the DHCP thing, they will probably have deactivated it at some point, probably because of what Dwaine had written about it (if it is active but there is no LAN connection when switching on, the device hangs).They didn't write that, but that will be the reason why they keep coming back to manual entry.Lastly, they wanted to know my network settings.They have a break over the weekend anyway, but I'm wondering what I'm missing in all this.As I said, in the meantime I don't think the Ethernet interface isn't working, it will probably work on the ET3502 too.But something is still missing in terms of information.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 12:44:32 am
content: Martin,Next time you communicate with them, ask why they reversed the BNC connections from what everyone else has and been doing for decades?? Every LCR Meter we've seen or used all have the L on the left and H on the right looking at the front panel.Reminds of the SPD3303X terminals spacingBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 09:53:15 pm
content: Hi,I can do that, but I don't think it will change anything.It doesn't really matter."Fun fact: The test leads are reversed.The red ones go to "L", the black ones to "H"...Something else, take a look at the video:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fIFq-a9pUUXXN_lfatnbyEut-dqt6XQt/view?usp=sharingThey point there several times to the subnet mask.Is it possible that this may not be 255.255.255.0 as usual?

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 10:02:45 pm
content: I would expect that 255.255.255.0 should work in an usual LAN-setup. Did they tell you what information you should get from that video?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 10:15:55 pm
content: "Of course" not...As I said, they really try very hard, but somehow something is "missing" in the communication.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 10:28:01 pm
content: Hello,the netmask is wrong in my opinion.Can you try a wrong netmask as seen in the movie?So:IP address: 192.168.178.22Netmask: 192.168.178.0Gateway: 192.168.178.1You can also choose another more suitable address for 22 if there are other conflicts.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 11:06:34 pm
content: Some of y'all need to do some reading:https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/glossary/netmask/Or for a quick cheat sheet of what the specific subnets allow:https://dnsmadeeasy.com/support/subnet

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 11:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 03, 2024, 10:15:55 pmHave you tried a IPCONFIG command on your PC to double check Gateway and Subnet values ?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 11:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on August 03, 2024, 11:06:34 pmHello,In the video, an incorrect number is entered in the Netmask field, which is not a netmask. But presumably the desired result is still achieved with the incorrect entry. I would therefore also try the procedure shown.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 12:46:37 am
content: Since you mention it, maybe EastTester should read more about netmasks. 😉

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 02:09:51 am
content: Hello,yes, but it's not that easy. Inhttps://www.lenovo.com/us/en/glossary/netmask/it is claimed that "A netmask consists of consecutive 1s followed by consecutive 0s" which is not correct, because the original standard did not restrict subnet masks to select contiguous bits of the address.But I don't think this is used anywhere.Best regardsegonotto

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 02:13:36 am
content: They were making a binary comparison for some reason. 🤷

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 02:55:42 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 31, 2024, 05:00:44 pmCan you change IP, netmask and gateway? If so I would try to put a network configuration compatible with your network and deactivate DHCP (edit: on the new device, not in your network).On a windows PC, ipconfig command, executed on a terminal, shows IP address of the PC, netmask and gateway. Then you could manually set the new device to use any free IP address in the range 192.168.X.1 to 192.168.X.254. Netmask and gateway would be the same you have in your PC.But, since you use DHCP in your network, you need to make sure there's no chance DHCP server could try and assign to other device the IP address you want for the new device, nor that you assign to the new device an IP already in use.You should get into your router, which is the gateway. Probably it would be enough to point your web browser to the IP of your gateway, i.e: http(s)://192.168.1.1 or something like that. There you should look at DHCP server configuration carefully.Usually DHCP servers are configured to never assign IP addresses in some arbitrary address pool of your LAN, i.e. it assigns addresses, say, between 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.200. In that case you would manually assign to the new device any (free) address between 192.168.1.201 and 192.168.1.254. That way the new device will not need the DHCP service, it will work, and the remaining devices in the network will continue to do their DHCP business as usual.On a home LAN, unless you modified something, probability of netmask not being 255.255.255.0 must be about 1 ppb. That netmask is what defines the number of devices your LAN can have. 255.255.255.0 means the three first groups of 8 bits in the IP address are fixed, and that only the last 8 bits are unlocked. So devices in that network can get addresses between X.X.X.0 and X.X.X.255 => 256 devices, each with its own IP address.But, by definition X.X.X.255 is the broadcast address, used to send messages to all devices in the network, and X.X.X.0 is the network address (of your entire LAN), used for routing between networks. So you can't assign any of these two addresses to a device in your LAN. This leaves you with 254 possible addresses. The router/gateway usually gets the first address, but it could be any of these 254 addresses.If I'm getting it right, some guy from East Tester told you to use an 192.168.1.0 as *netmask*? It has to be a communication error. Otherwise you'd have to guess he's high on something(multiple edits for clarity)

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 06:10:58 am
content: Netmask in the video is 255.255.178.0 and gateway 192.168.178.1?Using CIDR notation 255.255.255.0 is /24, meaning 24 bits are locked. You can do your subnetting any way fits you. If you need more than 254 addresses in your LAN, you could use a /16 bit netmask, and have 65534 addresses available. But the mask would be 255.255.0.0You could use a /17 bit netmask and that would leave half the addresses available on a /16 subnet, but netmask would be 255.255.128.0A /18 bit netmask would be 255.255.192.0I'm not aware that netmask could use fractions of a bit. So that netmask is wrong. Perhaps they have a typo and it would be 255.255.128.0 which corresponds to a 17 bit netmask. If you need 32766 IP addresses available in your LAN, that's the way to do it.Let's see what ipcalc says. We are going to use gateway' address and netmask of 17 bits to see what the resultant networks are:tatel@gis:~$ ipcalc 192.168.178.1/17Address: 192.168.178.1 11000000.10101000.1 0110010.00000001Netmask: 255.255.128.0 = 17 11111111.11111111.1 0000000.00000000Wildcard: 0.0.127.255 00000000.00000000.0 1111111.11111111=>Network: 192.168.128.0/17 11000000.10101000.1 0000000.00000000HostMin: 192.168.128.1 11000000.10101000.1 0000000.00000001HostMax: 192.168.255.254 11000000.10101000.1 1111111.11111110Broadcast: 192.168.255.255 11000000.10101000.1 1111111.11111111Hosts/Net: 32766 Class C, Private InternetSo, even if that netmask would be the right one 255.255.128.0, which it isn't, this device will be able to speak only to other devices with IP address between 192.168.128.1 and 192.168.191.254. Quite probably you LAN is out of that range?I think, you need to change that device network configuration and adapt it to your LAN configuration, as explained in the previous post. It should work with the usual 255.255.255.0 netmask as long as device's IP is in the address range of the LAN configured in your router. If not, get into your router via web browser, take some screenshots of your LAN configuration, and send it to these guys.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 10:33:05 am
content: Thanks to everyone for the excursion on the subject of networks.I had already done this "back then" with the ET3502, i.e. manually assigned the addresses.I haven't tried it with the ET3503 yet, I was too focused on the DHCP thing because East Tester had promised me to test the device before shipping.Yesterday, after watching the videos again, I suspected that DHCP doesn't work anyway and that you generally have to enter the addresses manually.I'll try that today and then let you know.

author: tatel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 11:52:59 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 04, 2024, 10:33:05 amYeah, I was pretty sure you know how to configure network settings. But seeing people wondering about netmask, etc, I posted it, just in case...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 12:09:17 pm
content: I had actually had a connection earlier...The device is not displayed in the home network, but Nmap finds it and it also finds a port (4321).I was able to get the ET35 to talk via Putty using *IDN?Then I tried a number of other SCPI commands and e.g. with all of them concerning LAN, either the ET35 fails or Putty closes.I will describe this in more detail later, but it should be noted that the ET3503 at least responds somehow.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 01:37:26 pm
content: Looks good. SCPI over TCP seems to work generally. As far as I remember, serial communication with the ET4XXX was a little special, too. So I think you can now try to experiment with timing, CR/LF termination and such aspects.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 02:01:03 pm
content: As long as you avoid the communication commands as much as possible, you will usually get an answer.However, as soon as you enter system:communicate:lan:self: and then what you want to know, either there is no response or putty quits.I currently have a 100Ohm resistor connected, I don't yet know how to display its value directly.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 02:53:52 pm
content: What happens with a simpleCode:FETCH??

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 05:07:24 pm
content: Oh look, with "fetch?" you get the value.It's nice that it's not in their own document.

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 08:01:17 pm
content: I think it is basically described in 2.4.10 with the defaults in [].

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 08:29:01 pm
content: I have tested a few more commands, most of them work well, the Ethernet interface works albeit very rudimentary - Somehow East Tester reminds me of Rigol...Good hardware, good ideas, but the software then....For now, it's time to focus on the actual features of the ET35.There are many things to adjust, cable length is just one of them.You can also make this component-specific and save/call it up, under these circumstances I believe that the device can definitely achieve the 0.05% basic accuracy.But how to test, I don't have such components here...I think I'll limit myself to values that are known and then compare them.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 01:50:48 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 04, 2024, 08:29:01 pmThink you have a TH2830 available, this could be a good reference to use. Would consider forgoing the Kelvin Clips and use the Direct Junction Box types for the Leaded and SMD type components. Might consider something like discussed here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sensitive-lcr-meter-measurements/For reference components consider quality leaded Polystyrene, Polypropylene, Mica Capacitors, with some C0G SMD types. For DC or very low frequency using the Kelvin Clips for leaded precision resistors should be acceptable, and you can also use your precision DMM to verify results.Inductors are another story tho, and we don't place much faith in any typical inductors we have where precision is considered. Precision reference inductors may be available tho, but likely expensive.If you consider the actual LCR measurement taking place with an inductor, it's the same as for a capacitor. The DUT Complex Voltage and Current are measured, then the Complex Impedance is computed. The only difference is the Impedance Angle is + for Inductance and - for Capacitance, then the test frequency is taken into account to display the Inductance/Capacitance Value. So unless the LCR is misbehaving the impedance levels measured, computed and displayed should be similar in magnitude but opposite in phase for Inductors and Capacitors. Sometimes meters display negative Capacitance for Inductance and visa-versa as the component goes thru resonance, or the wrong parameter is selected.Anyway, you should be able to get some good components for reference measurements at a reasonable $. If you decide to use the mentioned direct connected "boxes" for various DUT types, you should use the same "box" for the reference measurement on the TH2830 and then on your ET35, that should help reduce another "variable uncertainty" in your evaluations.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 08:38:23 pm
content: Hi,SMD Test Fixure AliexpressSMD Test Fixture SourcetronicI've looked at it three times, I don't see any difference....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 09:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 05, 2024, 08:38:23 pmThe generic ones on Ali are okay with some extra work like tightening fasters internally, and maybe needing to shorten wires. They also often don't send you what's pictured, which is why I got my generic one for under $20. 😉The DUT holders are also different and effect how things actually fit between the pins. Not easy to compare in photos, especially if one of the photos is a lie.I'm not saying not to get one from Ali, just be aware you'd be lucky if you receive what you hope to.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 09:03:31 pm
content: I will see in about 2 weeks.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 09:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 05, 2024, 08:38:23 pmHere's something that might help, follow the details on how to improve the fixture.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-smd-lcr-fixture-the-good-bad-and-ugly%21/msg4539458/#msg4539458We don't have a quality SMD fixture to compare with, but after some rework the cheap ones we have seem OK. Note on one, we had to 3D print another plastic SMD DUT holder as the supplied one was too shallow and allowed smaller SMD DUTs to slip under when the plunger fingers were engaged.Note that with the ET type LCR Meters reversed Terminal order, the Hcur and Hpot will be connected to the movable plunger rather than the fixed plunger on other LCR Meters. Might become an issue since the fields are higher with the H terminals which will now move with the plunger on ET types, whereas the Lcur and Lpot are close to ground potential and thus the field strength is lower wrt ground potential and should produce less field movement induced errors with other LCR Meters.Best,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 09:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 05, 2024, 09:30:25 pmURLs with an exclamation mark like that won't work. You need to replace the ! with %21:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/cheap-smd-lcr-fixture-the-good-bad-and-ugly%21/msg4539458/#msg4539458

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 09:49:07 pm
content: Hi,QuoteI consider this to be negligible with an AC voltage as the measuring voltage."Fun" fact:The Kelvin clip terminal and cables supplied are reversed.In other words, the red-marked wires are connected to L and vice versa.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 10:03:02 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 05, 2024, 09:49:07 pmKelvin Clips won't matter, SMD fixtures will!! Even more so with AC at higher frequencies. The modded SMD fixtures we have consistently produce a few fF uncertainties, don't think that would be the case on reversed H and L Terminals.At one point we were considering an ET type LCR Meter but then discovered the reversed order. Now won't consider them for that reason, even if we needed another Bench LCR Meter (we don't) and with a big discount.Anyway, of course YMMV.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 10:09:12 pm
content: We will find out whether that plays any role.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 10:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 05, 2024, 01:50:48 amYes, at work.If you want to know "exactly", either the ST2830 has to go to me or my ET35 has to go to work, because of the same ambient temperature/humidity.However, this should only be of an academic nature, although with 0.05% basic accuracy with an LCR measuring bridge, we are already close to the academic question.QuoteThat is clear, or I hope it is clear to everyone.QuoteInductors are the "bitches" among complex components.If they have a core, things get quite adventurous.The core causes them to saturate (well, you won't usually achieve this with an LCR bridge).The core has its own inductance, Al, which plays a role.A core has a large tolerance range, easily around 30%.If Q is negligible, and this is the case with a pure measurement, the tolerance values can be considerably reduced by adjusting the air gap.Nevertheless, I don't really "like" coil measurements.QuoteIf you have ever done arithmetic with complex values, you should be familiar with this.In principle, we can cover the majority of inductance measurements with a measuring bridge such as the ST2830/TH2830.The situation is different when calibrating power chokes, as the measuring voltages and currents of a standard measuring bridge are not even close to being sufficient.Or to put it the other way round, you are scratching at the "beginning" of an inductance.For such cases, there is then the voltage-time area measurement, with real voltages and currents.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 11:56:48 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 05, 2024, 10:09:12 pmAnswer is, It does make a slight difference where the moving Plunger section is active with the H or L terminals, favoring the latter just as we suspectedCuriosity got the best of us, so we used our SDM fixture with the TH2830 at 100KHz.First we did an Open Cal with the spacing ~ 0805 spacing, then measured an "Open" at same spacing with average of 64 and saw a variation of ~3fF total.Then we flipped over the SMD fixture so the H terminal is driving the SMD Movable Plunger, here we saw a Open variation of ~7fF. We returned to upright position and mounted a 0805 C0G 0.3pF capacitor and witnessed a ~6fF variation, then flipped over the SMD fixture upside down and had ~13fF variation, all with 64 averages at 100KHz.Next first we did an Open Cal upside down, and repeated the above with 0805 C0G 0.3pF results showing ~7fF variation upside down and ~5fF normal.These tests were done as quick tests just to "see" if terminal orientation had any effect on High Z Small Capacitance measurements.Very subtle effect but favoring the normal terminal orientation for our LCR Meters when using our modded SMD fixture as we suspected.BTW agree that Inductors are more of a measurement issue than capacitors, since we all can get quality, stable, somewhat precision capacitors in reasonable values, for reasonable prices. Not so to the best of our knowledge with inductors.We can send you a quality 10, 100, or 1000pF 0805 C0G chip cap from US to Germany and expect you'll get a result comparable to what we measure. Not sure what values would appropriate for the inductor tho, and what the results would be??Anyway, you can do the same tests we did with your ET35 by flipping over the SMD fixture, or do so with your SH2830 at work.Edit: Another simple test is to vary the plunger spacing between two fixed distances, use a spacer on the "Arm" so as not to disturb the fields around the active plunger and compare the results when flipped over and normal, we found the normal position has ~28% less variation in capacitance readings.As always, YMMV.Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2024, 09:16:12 pm
content: Hi,QuoteQuoteDon't be angry with me, but I very much doubt that a TH2830 can still resolve values in the femto range accurately, I consider that to be "background noise".

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2024, 04:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 06, 2024, 09:16:12 pmAgree, it can't!!However it can resolve with good repeatability to 10~20fF with carefully setup.For this level one must have an extremely stable mechanically and electrically setup. We prefer the modified LCR Meter SMD Fixture with the 4 cover attachment bolts. This has proven more stable due to the superior mechanical construction over the 2 bolt types. Also for the "Open Calibration" use a Plunger Spacing similar to the expected DUT spacing, the best way we've found is to wedge the Fixture Lever Arm so the Plunger Spacing is appropriate.Here's a measurement of a quality 0603 C0G "Ref Cap" we use. Measured 4.68440pF with TH2830 & SMD Fixture @ 100KHz on 12/23/22 and just now 4.68808pF shown. Over the years we made similar measurements with similar results, with the IM3536 even betterAnyway, hope this shows what we've been talking about and the better of the two cheap SMD Fixtures we have, expect the quality Tonghui types should be even better. If anyone wants to ship us one we'll be happy to evaluate suchEdit: Added images of SMD Fixture Interior, and lastly what we got putting the fixture back together and remounting on TH2830 with no recalibration (using previous Cals)!!!Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2024, 09:51:51 pm
content: Things have been quiet with the guys from ET for 3 days now, I've also given them a few nice "tasks" along the way.Before that, they always replied within 12 hours - that's outstanding.This is a nice device, but it could be even nicer, so I suggested the following to the guys:-Implementation of an average function-Implementation of a DCR function-Implementation of an ECAP measurement function-Screenshot not only for the measurement screen-More than one screenshot can be saved-Reduction of the file size to a realistic size, at the moment it is over 1Mb for a 640x800 pixel image, something is wrong.The first three points are available on the ET44 and ET45 models, so should not be a major problem.Actually...The guys have thanked me politely, let's see if it stays that way.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 01:25:21 pm
content: Unfortunately I have a cold, but at least there is one good thing, the package with the SMD Fixture arrived today...Makes a very solid impression for the fact that it doesn't even cost half of what sourcetronic wants for it (let alone other brands).I also tried it out on a 1Ohm resistor, then I remembered that the ET35 can also screenshots...Hence a screenshot of the smallest inductance I have here, a 10nH choke.Measured at 300kHz and of course open/short calibrated beforehand.That looks good and plausible.I would also like to have a test fixture like this for our ST2830 for work, so I will order one - but then one from Sourcetronic.This has several advantages, as you can imagine...

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 03:31:55 pm
content: Looks like your generic SMT fixture is nicer than mine. Mine only had 2 mounting lock tabs (though the pictures did show 4).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 05:12:57 pm
content: I took a few more pictures.It doesn't look too bad.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 05:33:09 pm
content: Hello,I don't quite understand the image 10nH.png. Shouldn't VAC be around 0.2 mV or IAC around 100 mA?Best regardsegonotto

author: w.v.s.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 06:55:54 pm
content: Hmm, I would also have expected something around 200mA, if these are the levels directly at the DUT.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 07:21:40 pm
content: Hi,I can't understand it at the moment either, maybe I can think of something else.Or I'll just ask ET.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 07:25:53 pm
content: Nah, just more proof ST283X > ET35. 😉😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 07:34:02 pm
content: Hm?I don't really understand that one now.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 07:50:49 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 12, 2024, 07:34:02 pmHello,if you measure the voltage at the DUT, you would at least know what is really going on.Best regardsegonotto

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 08:37:57 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 12, 2024, 05:12:57 pmMartin,That's the kind of SMD Fixture that can cause issues!It has no internal shield partition between the H and L sections. This will cause errors with small Cap measurements (high Z) as the internal fields change with plunger location on the moving end. This will be aggravated by the ET35 since its H and L sections are reversed which means the moving plunger end is the "hot" H end whereas the normal LCR Meter orientation has the moving plunger on the "cold" L side.Also we found this type with the two end screws on the cover use a thinner aluminum case/cover and powder coat paint the entire case and cover without any masking. This may cause less than ideal shielding between the cover and case which makes contact thru just the 2 end screws.The other (better) type SMD Fixture we have has 4 screws to hold the cover and uses threaded inserts in the cover.The cover you have looks like it might be sturdy enough tho, might want to ream the holes in the cover to remove the paint coating and get good contact with the 2 screws to case.The case looks as if it's only relying on the BNC washers to puncture the paint coating to tie to the cover, this may require removing the BNCs and cleaning away the paint coating around the BNC holes for better contact.Also check the Plunger outer cases, these form a somewhat coaxial conductor with the plunger, you want these to be firmly connected to the cover which must make a good connection the case to get back to the BNCs.Remember to check the brass threaded rods that make contact with the plungers, ours arrived loose and it took awhile before we discovered this "surprise"!!!Anyway, looks like you might have some reworking ahead to get this SMD Fixture up to standards for precision LCR measurements with the ET35!!! After getting things in order our modified SMD fixture has good repeatability even up to 8MHz, so these can be "coached" with a little effort into a good fixture for precision measurements.Keep us posted on your progress.BTW are you sure you have a cold, or just "skipping work" to have time to play around with this stuffBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 08:46:15 pm
content: QuoteUnfortunately not, but if at all possible tomorrow I want to go to work - just to measure the ST2830...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 08:57:21 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 12, 2024, 08:44:13 pmAfter egonotto noticed this, I looked into it again.I'm still not entirely convinced that the values are wrong, I'll hopefully take the same choke with the fixture to work tomorrow and connect it to the ST2830.Then record the values at the maximum possible frequency of 100kHz and measure them at home on the ET35.I also measured a capacitor earlier, like you did on your TH2830 a page earlier.However, 10pF, because I didn't have a 4.7pF.The result itself is plausible, but you can't derive it from the monitor voltage/current.I'll measure that tomorrow too, if I'm fit enough.And it's supposed to get really warm tomorrow of all days...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 09:17:10 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 12, 2024, 08:37:57 pmThe only question is how large these can be with a (current) maximum frequency of 300 kHz.That's almost audio...From an HF point of view, this fixation is simply garbage.And not only this fixation, others too.They are all not "HF-tight" ....I already have ideas on how to change this, I will also order the ST fixture for our test field as announced - and "of course" take it apart for optical inspection....

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 10:23:39 pm
content: Got a Wurth RF 0603 Chip 10nH Inductor & Pulse Electronics with Standard SMD fixture and measured with IM3536 at 300KHz and 100KHz. Readings are in nH(Vdut mv/ Idut ma).DUT Device 100KHz 300KHz 1MHzWurth 10nH 11.86 11.83 11.79Pulse Electronics 10nH 10.34 10.38 10.37With TH2830Wurth 11.878Pulse 10.574This is with our mentioned modified Standard SMD Fixture, swapped and use on both the IM3536 and TH2830.Note how small the Pulse 10nH is compared to the Wurth 0603 10nH!!Think your fixture is causing the issues you are experiencing.Just tried 8MHz and getting 11.83nH with Wurth, so the fixture is holding up well to 8MHz.BTW Tonghui specs thier SMD fixture to 120MHzWouldn't rely too much for low Z work tho, and why we developed the Special Split Kelvin FixtureEdit: Went back and reran with Wurth (Pulse is too small and difficult to handle) and added a couple images.2nd Edit Removed Vdut and Idut readings, see post 137 below.Best,

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 10:54:27 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 12, 2024, 10:23:39 pmHello,I have calculated the impedance. I must have made a mistake somewhere, because it doesn't add up.Best regardsegonotto

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 10:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 12, 2024, 09:17:10 pmSince these fixtures are somewhat direct clones of the Tonghui TH26008A which is rated to 120MHz and states, "Applicable to: SMD devices, high frequency small capacitors and small inductances." are you implying that their TH26008A is garbage??https://www.tonghui.com.cn/en/product_144.htmlBTW what is "HF-tight"?Honestly think Tonghui knows what they are doing and we've certainly got excellent results after modifying the clones but only to 8MHz thoNot too impressed (exposed blades in handle) with the Tonghui Kelvin Clips tho, but haven't seen any others that appear better.Hope you get over your cold soon!!Best

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 11:21:35 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on August 12, 2024, 10:54:27 pmYou didn't make a mistake, we did and in hind sight we shouldn't have posted the Voltage and Current valuesThe impedance calculated from these values must include the LCR Open and Short Calibration coefficients to be correct for the DUT, these coefficients are not directly available.We should have realized this before posted about Martin's readingsThanks for pointing this out, we'll remove those for clarity!!Best,

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 11:41:30 pm
content: Hello,thank you for your answer.The voltage at the DUT should be easy to measure using the 4-wire method. The current is distorted by the shunt.You should be able to estimate the impedance of the shunt from the values given. The phase shift must be taken into account.I still have to think about whether it is possible to calculate the shunt from the given values, i.e. measured inductance, frequency, measured voltage and measured current. The ohmic resistance of the coil should be negligible in this case.Best regardsegonottoPS: I don't think that's possible. If you look at the series connection of shunt and DUT, you have two unknowns, the shunt and the voltage that is applied to the series connection.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 12:11:07 am
content: The problem with these type SMD fixtures (why we developed the Split-Kelvin type) is the 4 wire Kelvin connection is made at the entry to the plunger bottom, not at the Plunger tip which makes contact with the SMD DUT.If you look at Martin images you can see where the Force and Sense (Hcur-Hpot and Lpot-Lcur) wire pairs enter the case top cover to the plunger, this is where contact is made, not at the DUT. The LCR meter will "attempt" to remove this unmeasured connection from the Force Sense connection to the DUT by means of the Open and Short Calibration, however this is far from ideal.The method we developed attempts to remove this uncertainty by keeping the Force and Sense wire separate until they are connected by the SMD DUT end terminals, thus removing most of the uncertainly in measurement. This is a little tricky to get all 4 connections to the SMD DUT, and why we created the rough contact surface texture, but with a little patience results are quite repeatable down to milliohm Z levels!! Of course this assumes that you are using an LCR meter capable of resolving this low a level!!Anyway, thanks again for pointing out our improper numeric postingBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 10:18:23 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on August 12, 2024, 10:57:49 pmThankyou, I hope tomorow it´s going better...I didn't say that Tonghui's fixtures are garbage, but from an HF point of view everything is still far too "open".I could imagine at least "sealing" the inside of the housing with HF sheet metal, perhaps even constructing a cover that can be placed on the fixture during the test.But these are just thoughts for now.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 01:26:12 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 13, 2024, 10:18:23 amThe case and cover are sort of an RF enclosure. However, the cover must be well constructed, tight fit, and connected to the case for good RF shielding. Also applying to the BNC shell to case for a good RF connection. If you study the design the only RF exposure is with the two plunger tips, which has worked well with our experience.You want the enclosure interior to provide space for the wire from the BNCs to the plungers, and also enough distance to each wire to have a small effective shunt parasitic capacitance. This becomes important for the movable plunger side as the wires move with the plunger the parasitic capacitance changes. If the space were smaller with wires closers to case/cover the parasitic capacitance would be higher and the capacitance change with plunger movement larger.Note the need for a field shield between the H and L sides of the enclosure for High Z and/or Higher frequency work, you don't want the H and L wires "seeing" each other electrically. A simple "L" shaped aluminum bracket shield bolted to the case would work, or even a Cu or FR4 rectangular section soldered to the BNC ground washer assuming the washer is well connected to the case.Suspect when you get the OEM Tonghui version at work, you'll see all the finer details they use. The clones obviously forgo many of these details to save cost, but one can recover the benefits with some additional tinkering and workBest,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 01:47:38 pm
content: @ Martin,Get some good pictures of the SH26008A (Tonghui TH26008A) if you can. As most quality OEMs they pay attention to detail, altho one could question the Guard Terminal on the REAR of the TH2830 LCR MeterBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 02:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on August 12, 2024, 05:33:09 pmThanks again for this post.I simply asked ET how the VAC/IAC values come about and as always they responded promptly (which is really great).They sent me a picture of a handwritten sketch, really cute.But then you can also understand it, because in my calculations I neglected the output resistance (100 ohms).So far so good, so understandable - but....The engineer who drew this has made a small calculation error.The nano value is one decimal place too low.This has hardly any effect on the current display, but the voltage is displayed too high by a factor of 10.So if this is the same engineer who is responsible for the software, then the same error will be found in the program.I have therefore sent ET a picture with notes on the slip of paper.Let's see what comes back.Martin

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 02:38:31 pm
content: 100 ohm source impedance is too high to evaluate low Z components like 10nH at LCR Meter frequencies. Look at the ratio between the DUT Z and the source impedance!!This is why the TH2830 has a lower 3 ohm range (30 ohm source) and the IM3536 is lower with a 0.1 ohm range (10 ohm source)!!Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 03:03:01 pm
content: Hi Mike,This is not a problem, the output resistance can be selected for the ET35 (as well as for the small ET44/45).QuoteAs with the ET35, you can choose between30and 100 ohms for the TH2830/ST2830.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 03:28:45 pm
content: The TH2830 has a lower 3 ohm range with 30 Ohm source impedance (IM3536 is 0.1 ohm range with 10 ohm source impedance), what is the ET35 lower range?Always use the lower range and source impedance except for higher Z components. The DUT current is mostly dictated by the source impedance for low Z DUT, so 30 ohms would give you ~3.3X the DUT current and thus ~3.3X the DUT voltage over the 100 ohm source, which makes things a little easier to resolve.Of course this assumes the ET35 can deliver this level of current stability and accurately at frequency.Best,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 03:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 13, 2024, 02:12:09 pmAlso ask, why would the ET engineer even suggest a 100 ohm source for the low Z 10nH inductor, when apparently 30 ohms is availableBest,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 04:01:01 pm
content: He did not suggest anything.He only calculated what I had asked.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 08:02:19 pm
content: Hi,Today I took the fixture and the choke/capacitor to work.Afterwards I also retested at home with 100khz on the ET35.I don't think you should pay too much attention to this Im/Vm thing.While the values for the ST2830 are still correct for the choke in terms of voltage/current, they are higher for the ET35 and both are wrong for the capacitor.I found an explanation in the ST2830 manual.There it is expressly stated that these Im/Vm values arefor informationonly, i.e. no accuracy is given, and they can deviate anyway if corrections (open/short/load) are used.Presumably this is why they can also be switched off on the ST2830, so that no confusion arises.For me this is the end of the matter, it would have been nice to find such an explanation in the ET35 manual too.But now I know, and now I'm almost sorry that I was bitching at the guys from ET before I read it in the ST2830 manual.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 08:25:55 pm
content: Why is the Rs value so far off between the two devices?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 08:30:50 pm
content: This is the case with the capacitor and I can't explain it to you at the moment.In addition, both are wrong.While the 82 and 86mOhms are correct for the choke, the capacitor would be in the three-digit kilo-Ohm range.Edit forget that thing, Rs should be equal to ESR.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 08:53:51 pm
content: Kemet has a nice simulation tool for their capacitors.Both LCRs measured the impedance of just under 160kOhm correctly, but the ESR is 3.3kOhm.https://ksim3.kemet.com/capacitor-simulation?pn=C1206C100FGGACTU&disty=mouser

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 09:11:54 pm
content: If the chart is correct, both meters failed ESR (Rs) measurement. Unless the cap is faulty, and then at least one still failed. 😉

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 09:23:46 pm
content: You can assume that the manufacturer's simulation is correct.The two show fantasy values, for whatever reason, but we have often discussed the subject of ESR.At 1Mhz, the actual test frequency for this value, the ESR would be around 1kOhm....What I don't really understand is that the primary value and the impedance are measured correctly, but some secondary parameters, as can be seen now, are not.Whether this is really different in more expensive devices....It's about time you got the Hioki up and running.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 09:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 14, 2024, 09:23:46 pmlol, I wish. Parts from China. The LCD might be here by Friday, but no idea when the touch panel will show up. Hopefully within the next week. In the meantime, I'm just messing with the front panel. Unfortunately, the sun was spotty today so I don't know if there will be any more improvement there. I'll find out in a couple hours when I check it out.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:43:02 pm
content: So I have now ordered the test fixture from Sourcetronic for us.I'm curious to see what it looks like inside, after all it's almost three times as expensive as mine from Aliexpress.But that's nothing compared to the R&S model, which looks exactly the same.They want 1500€ for it....The tireless people at ET got in touch again today and explained why the Im/Vm display does not reflect what is really there.They didn't know that I had finished with it, thanks to the explanation in the ST manual.I was tempted to torment the poor guys with the question about the Rs(ESR), but left it alone, as I had given myself the answer.I assume that the devices (ET as well as ST) are no longer able to display the “correct” ESR value with a 10pF capacitor due to their design.I would be interested to know @Mike whether your much more expensive Hioki does it better.Determining the ESR (Rs) value for a 10pF capacitor at 100kHz is probably a sporting task.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2024, 12:23:41 pm
content: @ Martin,Here you go. Random selected 10pF C0G/NP0 0805 and 0603 chip caps, measured at 100KHz.Note: Our setup has changed as we've added Power Line Chokes per Hioki recommendation to our IM3536 and TH2830 (actually added to all our instruments individually).

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2024, 12:52:36 pm
content: Here's the Tonghui TH2830.BTW, these test were quickly done without proper instrument warm up (10 minutes).Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2024, 05:48:06 pm
content: Thank you Mike!Do you have the data sheets or ESR values for the capacitors used according to the specification?It would be interesting to see how far they are from the measured values.I will be measuring values with larger capacitors over the weekend, but with the ET3502.Because I still need pictures of the running operation, I have put the ET3502 up for sale for a ridiculous 499€ (because of the non-functioning Ethernet).I am curious when the test fixture from sourcetronic will arrive.Oh well, as for the specifications (Kelvin clips) I haven't heard back from them yet....

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2024, 11:25:11 pm
content: The 0603 is a Walsin Tech 0603N100F500CT, can't recall what the 0805 was. These are just generic C0G caps, nothing really special.Must remember that at 100KHz a 10pF cap has a Z of 159.155K ohms (why the fixture shielding is so important)!!BTW if you really want to compare results with the ST2830 and ET35 try some TDK and/or Kyocera/AVX 1, 10, 100 & 1000pF C0G/NP0 0.1% 0603, 0805 and 1206 types. This should provide a good baseline to work from.Best,

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2024, 12:10:33 am
content: For leaded capacitors, smaller values for Polystyrene and Mica are very stable, larger values Polypropylene are good.Here's an example of what we mean about shielding, this is a Tonghui TH26048A Leaded LCR Meter Fixture. Note the shield between the H and L sides, the lack of paint on the case/cover inside and the threaded brass insert for cover connection.This quality fixture gives excellent repeatability with various leaded components, small and large Z valuesBest

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 10:28:34 pm
content: My assumption that the bandwidth of the ET35 series is determined by the firmware (and the hardware is always the same) has been confirmed by ET almost involuntarily.Since I had not yet received a discount on the defective Ethernet interface on the ET3502, I offered to give them the firmware that increases the bandwidth.They denied this, saying that the internal calibration would then no longer be correct....Aha, so the case was clear.At first I was tempted to write, give it to me anyway, because the internal calibration is described in the manual.However, you would need inductances and capacitances with a tolerance of max. 0.02% - never ever...If I were to buy these references for the different measuring ranges, I would be out a higher 5-digit sum.No thanks...What remains is the realization that the bandwidth could be increased to 1Mhz via software, but at the cost of having to recalibrate.I will refrain from doing so.The next message was that my suggestions for improvement regarding new features will only be incorporated in a new model series.So I hope that they will at least tackle the bug with the screenshot function.Over the next few weeks I will measure more components and compare them with the next best LCR, in this case with the ST2830 at work, and then report back here.But even so, I can already say that the ET35 is a good device in terms of its basic functions.Considering the price, a very good one.I paid a total of 950€ for the ET3503.For this you get a large, easy-to-read display with a 6-digit display for both the main and secondary parameters.Internal and external DC bias function up to 40V.Stepless measuring frequency up to 300kHz.Numerous correction options.You can see where you can get a 300kHz device for the money, I can tell you in advance, you won't get one.These are the advantages, the disadvantages can be summarized in one sentence:The software is Rigol-style...And with the same prospect of improvements as the “role model”.If you like “hard facts” and are looking for a higher maximum measuring frequency and external bias function at the lowest possible price, the ET35 is the right choice.I'm currently struggling to give a clear recommendation, but what I can say for sure is that the ET35 series is the best you can get for up to €1000.A little above that is the TH2830 series, for a little more the ST2830 series (same design, but better support).The series has no Ethernet connection and external DC bias input, as well as a significantly smaller display.But if 100kHz (or 200kHz “cracked”) is enough, you get a device that is better processed and generally gives the impression that it can do everything it has, quasi the “Siglent” among the LCR meters.That's my interim conclusion.The ET3502 is for sale, I will keep the ET3503, even if another LCR meter comes along.And that will come, because my series of tests between all the “purely” Chinese products has taught me one thing.I want a “final” device from a renowned brand manufacturer with appropriate support.And depending on where I can get it relatively cheapest, it will be a Hioki IM3536 or an R&S LCX device.I won't go below that, I've “seen it all” with the ET35 and the TH/ST28XX.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2024, 11:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 21, 2024, 10:28:34 pmQuasi is correct. In terms of hardware quality, the TH/ST stuff is excellent. But...The firmware and support suck, unless you go through SourceTronic, and then the support is awesome. Fixtures are generally good too, and cost much less than...the exact same rebranded hardware from other bigger brands. 😉

author: uliano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2024, 07:45:31 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 21, 2024, 10:28:34 pmDM'd you

author: VP 777
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 03:08:50 pm
content: Hello everyone. I also bought this miracle ET3501. The probes are made very unreliably. The wires need to be changed. I will do this later. I immediately put the wires in the screen, for alternating current. They give interference to the system, which prevents accurate data. You can see it in the photo. I checked for stability from voltage surges from the network from 170-242 V, the converter board showed a stable voltage of 4.9998 V. Which pleased me with the stability. We continue testing. The instructions in the kit are very simple. If there is an additional manual, send me a link, I will be grateful.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2025, 07:44:30 pm
content: Hi,Full Manual for all ET35 LCR Bridges and SCPI protocol....

author: VP 777
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2025, 07:47:45 pm
content: Hello everyone. I ordered copper tin wires with 12 AWG screen. I want to improve the accuracy of measurements. Tell me how to best calibrate the probes. Its most important parameter is the voltage provided in the system (example 1.00001 Volts +-) and it is constantly changing. I think it affects the values, and gives different measurements with high accuracy. You need to find this resonator that sets the voltage and attach a large copper radiator to it through paste. Like on a PC, on a processor. What do you think? Maybe also install a fan inside. It can also stabilize the temperature on the circuit.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2025, 10:35:55 pm
content: Hello,I haven't had any problems with accuracy on my ET35 (ET3502, ET3503).The specified basic accuracy is already very good; it is difficult to find devices below 0.05%, and impossible in this price range.However, the specified 0.05% only refers to a “sweet spot” in the nomogram.This is no different for other devices, as it is a fundamental principle.I did not investigate whether and how modifying the power supplies could have a positive effect, because, as I said, my ET35s did what they were supposed to do.If I were you, I would first specify whether there is a problem with accuracy.What I would do instead is invest in better test cables; the cables supplied are not suitable for the device.The same applies to the test adapters, whether for wired components or for SMD.Then I would seriously consider the line compensation option and perform an open/short calibration before each series of measurements (change in measurement frequency) to get the most out of the device.Because that is the “sacrifice” you have to make if you want to get the most out of such LCR meters in terms of accuracy.This would also be the case with more expensive devices or after a supposed improvement through modification.It is not possible to quickly measure something with the highest precision....

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2025, 01:52:54 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on April 27, 2025, 10:35:55 pmIs that required manually for each range? The SourceTronic and Hioki meters I've had compensate every range for the connected test apparatus. At least the Hioki also has options to do ranges individually.

author: VP 777
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 01, 2025, 11:40:39 pm
content: My device underestimates the value when measuring resistance from 0 to 10 k Ohm, and adds more when above 10 k Ohm. What could it be? The values ​​with capacitors are also incorrect, especially if the capacities are large, 10,000 UF, it easily lies by - 15-20% of the nominal value. ESR clearly shows more. I also want to ask, does your reference voltage grow slowly? I'm talking about (VAS 1.00001 V). Mine starts with 0.99987 and grows in 3 hours to 1.00021 V. Mine grew to 1.00040. Is this normal? I think the values ​​also change when calculating. I have an old device for measuring wire resistance, with an accuracy of 0.15%, its measuring clamps are better than those of the ET3501. The ET3501 does not give constant results with the next clamp.

author: VP 777
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 12:01:20 am
content: There is a factory email, maybe ask them how to set up this miracle. It is not clearly described in the instructions. Or not at all.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 01:35:44 am
content: Quote from: VP 777 on May 02, 2025, 12:01:20 amIn general, LCRs need to be calibrated correctly for every test setup, including test frequencies (usually calibration sweeps through all freqs).You need to compensate the cable length first, then run calibration for whatever fixture you're using.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2025, 07:23:34 am
content: Hi,QuoteThat's what measuring is for, to determine whether something is correct or not.The value on a component is initially just a designation; the actual value is the measured value.With electrolytic capacitors in particular, the tolerance can be as high as 20% (data sheet).With a 10000µF/20% capacitor, the value can range from 8000 to 12000µF and still be OK.Then, electrolytic capacitors of this size are generally only used in conventional rectifier circuits, i.e., the measuring frequency to determine the value should be 100 Hz or 120 Hz or DC.If, despite everything, you measure a lower capacity, the electrolytic capacitor may not be defective (or the measuring device may not be accurate).Electrolytic capacitors that have been stored for a long time can have more than 20% less capacity and would then need to be reformed.An indicator of a defective capacitor would be a lower capacity than its own tolerance and an ESR value that is too high.In addition to the tolerance, you need to know the “correct” value—see the data sheet.So, measuring larger capacities:-Measurement frequency 100/120Hz*-Fully discharge before measuring-Know the target values (tolerance, ESR) - Refer to the data sheet*)Unless otherwise specified in the data sheet.