5G/4G LTE Modem for WAN Failover - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 03:48:30 am
content: Storm Helene passed away and taught me a lesson: I need a WAN failover to 4G 5G Mobile Network.I started to do my homework, and it looks like 5G modem are too $$$...Anyway just curious to know what do you use to backup your primary ISP WAN connection.Thanks in advance.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 04:09:11 am
content: Your best mobile broadband modem option in terms of:* Price to radio quality (by a big margin)* Being regularly tested* Being directly on hand... is a mobile phone in tether/hotspot mode.If your home wifi router is any good then it can be set to client ("station") mode rather than access-point (AP) mode, connect to your phone's wifi AP and use that as the WAN. Then every device plugged into the network in your house will go through your phone's hotspot.If your home wifi router can't do this then I'd recommend grabbing a device that supports OpenWRT and learning to play with that. It can do pretty much anything and will be much more reliable than most SOHO routers (I have some OpenWRT devices with more than a year's uptime, I only have to reboot them for updates).

author: Postal2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 11:46:33 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 06, 2024, 03:48:30 amI use ADSL and USB-tethering. Tethering is supported automatically and immediately on any system, including Windows XP. Nothing needs to be configured, just connect the phone via USB (photo).Some old phones, such as Nokia with 3G, actually connect as a real modem and require a driver, but the connection is the same as through a regular modem 20 years ago.Old phones that emulate a real modem (with ATDT*99#) are natively supported in Windows 98.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 05:11:06 pm
content: In case of a hurricane or alike bad weather, mobile networks won't work either. Though, hurricanes in Italy are highly unlikely. Anyways, instead of a 4G/5G modem, better look for a Starlink receiver.Another thing, where I live I can just use the mobile phone to get 4G/5G Internet access, and/or share that with a laptop/PC if needed.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2024, 05:17:38 pm
content: I live in USA. The mobile towers were the only access to internet after the hurricane.It must have a ETH port, so my pfsense box will do the magic.[https://www.t-mobile.com/home-internet/plans/5g-backup-internet-options]Looks good to me, only downside are some NAT layers and the 130GB data cap.Hard to beat for $35 one time fee and $20/month.Yes my area has good Tmobile 5G coverage.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 07:27:56 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 06, 2024, 05:17:38 pmA cheap SOHO wireless router or AP that can act as a station/client will let you adapt a mobile phone wifi hotspot into something wired. If it can't do one of the voodoo bridging modes then it will put you beind a NAT, but mobile broadband services generally get CGNAT'd anyway so you it doesn't really matter.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 01:50:50 pm
content: True, this means leaving a phone in hotspot mode 24/7. It's a plan B, I still prefer the dedicated 5G modem as I posted before.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2024, 07:11:10 pm
content: See also herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/networking/usb-dongle-for-a-router-for-fttp-backup

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 08, 2024, 01:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 06, 2024, 05:17:38 pmI ordered it last night, sale lady did not charge me the $35 activation fee.$20/Month for 130GB 5G data/Month. Should work out of the box...

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 12:58:16 am
content: I had to curse to deactivate all WIFI on the 5G Modem, also the connection is horrible with latency once every 2 day >500ms.Only a desperate should think about a 5G modem for internet at home IMHO.For backup it is acceptable, a shitty connection is better than nothing.That said I have 3/5 bars of 5G signal... so it could play a role.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 11:03:09 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 26, 2024, 12:58:16 amBlame your telco/ISP, not the tech.I've been using 4G/LTE up north (north of the arctic circle, about 13km from the transmitter) without latency issues foryears; I think close to ten years now. Youtube et cetera work just as well as with a wired connection.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:04:57 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 26, 2024, 11:03:09 pmI continue to blame the tech:1) Mobile Cell tower quality of service depends on the number of users connected, the more users around the tower the worst it gets.2) Why 5G modems have a lower priority than mobile phones? (This is why people hack the xG Modems by changing the IMEI to a phone one).I imagine in your region (low populated area) the number of user connected is constantly low, and this would explain your good quality connection.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 01:25:48 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 01:04:57 pmCan you imagine all the gen z people with their tiktok taking time to load? The backlash of that would be unimaginable.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 02:01:06 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on October 28, 2024, 01:25:48 pmIf aliens will invade our planet they will start to investigate what are those little devices controlling humans.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 03:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 01:04:57 pmI do test the hardware here inHelsinki metropolitan areawith about 1.6M pop, with good connections and low latencies all through the day.Lotsof cellphones here; so much so that traditional landlines are a rarity in homes.Based onOpenSignalreport, all three major Finnish telcos are either Good or Very good; with "satisfactory load times". On 5G, typical download speeds are in excess of 200 Mbit/s.We did start the cellphone era early, what with Nokia and all. I've had one since 1997 (starting with a 8810i banana, used in the first Matrix films), and I wasn't an early adopter. (Over 80% of Finns had cellphones in 2000.)I know enough of the tech (via friends and former colleagues having worked in it) to categorically state that the problems you are having, is because your ISP or local telecommunications company is unwilling to invest enough in proper infrastructure to support the number of users they have. One benefit from 5G beamforming tech is that they can increase the density of the infrastructure a lot, allowing for pretty extreme user densities and aggregate bandwidths. Granted, in some locales it might be difficult to obtain permits or locations for the infrastructure, but in almost all cases connectivity, latency, and bandwidth issues are just a matter of the telco/ISP maximizing profits instead, and not any limitation in the tech.It is the competition here that keeps the telcos adding infrastructure as user needs increase: otherwise they switch to the better-serving telco.In the rural areas, the situation (with a single provider) is much worse; only where you have tourists, does the sole telco tend to keep up with the demand.The funkiest modem I have is a Frankenmodem: an USB 2.0 to miniPCIe ("WWAN") adapter holding a miniPCIe modem, such as Mikrotik R11e or a Huawei ME909s-120 (both of which I do have) – both 4G/LTE. A typical unlimited data plan costs about 25€/month here, although I use a 1€/day occasional one instead for testing (which probably has the least priority among all possible plans and devices). A few days ago I received an ADT-Link WS17 adapter (one with proper voltage level DC/DC converters, thus less waste heat generation and better power than typical ones), but I haven't yet tested it with my miniPCIe modems. These allows one to convert any Linux SBC into a gateway/firewall appliance/server; I'm thinking of using one for remotely-accessible outdoors cameras with local storage.Oh, and the antennae you use definitely matters. With el-cheapo poor ones, several of the cheap USB 2.0 to miniPCIe adapters (with linear regulators to 3.3V, which isn't optimal; 3.8V is preferred by the miniPCIe modems)overheatedwhen testing for extended periods here in Helsinki. I suspect it is because there is quite a bit of reinforced concrete between me and the closest infrastructure; I don't live in a penthouse exactly, you see.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:10:01 pm
content: Interesting readingNominal Animalthank you so much!I think if you design the antenna towers in the right way and you put more antennas in populated areas you are in the clear.What is happening usually in USA they put the least amount of antennas towers possible (US is huge) to cut costs, and when the big highway is full of traffic it's game over.Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 28, 2024, 03:20:38 pmI looked into building my 5G modem box, but TMobile was giving me the (shitty) 5G modem for free...Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 28, 2024, 03:20:38 pmI agree, the only good thing of the TMobile modem is the option to install external (outdoors) MIMO antennas.They costs >$200 which for my backup WAN it could be money out of the window.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:16:48 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 05:10:01 pmI agree. And there are quite a lot of them here in Helsinki; which means that individual stations also don't need/want to use full power all the time.All three operators have a map service, which shows the estimated connection quality in each region:Telia,DNA, andElisa, all in Finnish unfortunately. (You can even see that almost all 3G towers are gone, with just central Helsinki left, plus two regions with scattered individual towers in middle and northern Finland left. We have 5G all over, but not with as full coverage as 4G yet.)Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 05:10:01 pmExactly.There is alotof fiber installations too here in Finland, even in the remote regions (organized/bought by locals in co-operative fashion, but maintenance/upgrading of the switches and transceivers is an issue, limiting bandwidth), which helps with the wireless tower placement (reasonable access to trunk fiber). It hasn't been painless at all, though, even here.Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 05:10:01 pmIn most cases, it is easier and cheaper to get a 4G/5G/LTE router with external antenna support. If you get one with OpenWRT support, you can then switch to OpenWRT when the manufacturer support starts lagging (or reducing the usefulness of the device due to them trying to get customers to upgrade to later models, as is common in wireless devices nowadays).My needs differ: I really need a secure internet-accessible server with storage for cameras, as I just don't trust the cloud services at all. There are quite a few cameras known to work well with e.g. Zoneminder, so most of that is just Linux integration stuff (which I'm very familiar with). The most interesting facet of this all, to myself, is how to provide an easy access to status of the system without access to the configuration, safely, to non-technical users. Something like a small OLED screen just doesn't cut it; this needsvisualmanipulation of the non-technical users, via colorful graphics and "professional", customized look-and-feel. (Otherwise –– and I think you don't need to ask me how I know –– any error reports will be days late, with "it said some number I forgot, and my Facebook didn't work after that" or similar level or usefulness, with the end users pretty unhappy.)In general, it is a type of appliance that I do believe many small home offices would also benefit from. It is basically the exact device you're struggling with, with ISP/telco support for dynamic routing of entire assigned IPv4 and IPv6 blocks. The latter I cannot do anything about, but I have nowadays a pretty good idea of how to do the former.Quote from: Zucca on October 28, 2024, 05:10:01 pmHoly hell. Typical ones cost 50€-100€ here. Iskra P-60, a dual Yagi for 4G/5G, can be bought for85€plus shipping.A friend has a cottage in a small valley with fells all around, but managed to get both cellphone and 4G connectivity with Iskra P-58; apparently found some good-enough reflections to use! Had to replace the router (from Mikrotik to Teltonika) though, due to some OpenWRT issues.Up north, there is direct line of sight to the tower 13km or so away (it's high up on a small hill), so even standard WiFi external antennae -sized "bunny ear" antennae (designed for 4G/LTE frequency range) will work there, if the supply to the modem/transceiver circuit has sufficient power. During snowstorms and such, the connection is better with better outdoors antennae, though.(All the modems and 4G/LTE routers I have used or installed have used the MIMO main + diversity antenna setup, with modems having two (u.FL AKA IPEX) connectors. Even the quality of the pigtails used between those and the antenna SMA or whatever, matters. Fortunately, there seem to be quite good quality cheap ones available at Aliexpress in packs of 5 or 10, which is nice.)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:53:31 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 28, 2024, 06:16:48 pmI bought them 2 years ago due to having little clue, and then realized I basically wasted my money on buying huge overpriced antennas (compared to LTE or 5G only) with subpar gain that is no better than modem's internal antennas. The thing is, 99% of 5G modems have antenna connectors for 5G only (and most of antenna size comes from LTE frequency range). Not to say usually it's only 2 connectors despite having 4 internal 5G antennas, so you don't get 4x4 MIMO with external antennas (without modifying the modem like thishttps://router-mods.co.uk/product/huawei-cpe-5-5g-h155-router-modification-services/). And those that have them for LTE, have them separately. So it makes zero sense to buy antennas that combine LTE and 5G frequencies, and generally no sense to use external antennas to begin with. Now I have 2 unconnected antennas on my roof as I gave steel roof and LTE aggregation barely works when modem is placed in attic. But modem is placed in a plastic electrical box mounted on a wall. So if you find a need for external antennas, either buy external modem for a bit of extra price or put regular modem in protective box and put it outside the building.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:29:36 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 28, 2024, 06:53:31 pmGood to know; thanks!It sounds very much like getting separate LTE and 5G antennae, and only when standard/internal ones are insufficient, is the way to go. Matches my observations and experiments thus far, too.(Like I said, for me personally both here in Helsinki and up north above the Arctic Circle, the bunny ear 25cm long direct external antennae have worked really well. Not the eBay/Aliexpress ones, but the ones known/tested to work well. I did test some cheap eBay ones with several elements vertically, but they didn't really perform any better than the bunny ear ones do.)Quote from: wraper on October 28, 2024, 06:53:31 pmMikrotik and Teltonika have an interesting selection of outdoors models, but there are lots of ready outdoors models available from many reputable manufacturers in the 100€-300€ range here.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 09:04:02 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 28, 2024, 08:29:36 pmTo make performance on par with outdoor router, you'd need to modify indoor router (or buy quite expensive one) to have ~8 antenna connectors, then have those expensive antennas. Cheaper to just buy EUR 300-350 outdoor router or put existing indoor router in a protective box if you want it as cheap as possible. External antennas may make sense only if you want to squeeze the last bit of antenna gain, and you'd need something quite a bit better than most of the stuff available (several routers come with ~11 dBi built-in 5G antennas, like ZTE MC889A Pro, not easy to beat that).

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 02:57:15 pm
content: This is what people in USA buys...No sense for me...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 03:59:27 pm
content: ^No sense whatsoever, you can get outdoor router with better built in antennas for that price.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 01:04:29 pm
content: So yesterday I installed MC889A Pro (Qualcomm x65 5G modem). Got it for EUR 350. The beast is effing huge, much larger than I imagined. It's 650m (2100ft) away from the cell site, signal strength is like standing nearby it. I put it in place of the pair of Iskra P-60 antennas that I abandoned on the roof due to it being a worthless setup (5G routers usually have just 2 antenna connectors for 5G only as I said above). IIRC it's about 10 dBm stronger n78 signal than I had with those connected to MC888A router (x55 5G modem).