Planning to purchase a Rigol DS1052E, seeking guidance - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 05:40:47 pm
content: Hi all,I just registered today to ask a question but couldn't help my self reading posts around. I am planning on purchasing a Rigol DS1052E, I read most of the posts related to this device that came up on search and I still have some questions.1 - 3.5ns min rise time is documented in datasheet, how will the waveform look like when I feed 1ns rising/falling pwm ?2 - Device supports usbtmc protocol, anyone used it with instrumentation toolbox in Matlab ? How much delay approximately do you think will occur between DS1052E capturing the signal and Matlab ploting the data ? There is no information available on this. I would like to synchronize Matlab and DS1052E, use it as a data acquisition system as well.3 - Running time ; how much can it operate continuously in hours ? Does it heat ?4 - Can it be used as a function generator ? Can it output signals that I will set the parameters ?5 - Since it has FFT, can it perform as a frequency counter as well?6 - Which platform and language is used to program this device ? I assume there is no IDE/API to achieve this but I would like to implement custom stuff.7 - Does it have an auto calibration feature ?I have intermediate assembly and advanced c programming skills and I liked the look (price, lol) of this device. I don't mind if upgrade hack to 100MHz is a company strategy to melt the stock but it sure look attractive.I know above are a lot of question but would love to hear opinions and recommendations about this product.Have a nice day!Yigit

author: McMonster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 05:56:43 pm
content: 4. No, it can't.6. I guess firmware was written in C, but I don't see many modded images around (except for ones hacked for 100 MHz), so I don't think there's any easy way of reprogramming the device itself.7. Yes.I haven't used it much since I got it and it's the first digital oscilloscope I ever used, but as a hobbyst I'm absolutely satisfied by what this scope can do.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 05:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 01, 2011, 05:40:47 pm1) 3.5ns. someone just feed it with 680ps risetime, and its still showing... 3.5ns, 3.3 actually.4) no. it has cal out 1KHz square signal though. but you cant set the parm, and its also not advisable to use that other than its purpose. someone broke it on his scope.5) yes it can do FC, its accesible from side menu6) Windows (i'm not sure about others). it has API.***- you should have no problem digesting this...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1483.0[edit: i saw the attachment in the link is missing, not sure why maybe latest host transfer or someone delete it dont know... let it be.]

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 06:07:05 pm
content: Why would you buy the DS1052E when you can get the DS1102E for $399usd. see this posthttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=5746.0

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 06:27:47 pm
content: There are -very- strict custom regulations in Turkey, I can get it for 399$ + %18 VAT + Shipping which yields to approximately 550$ for me. I can buy DS1052E from a local dealer for 550$ already. Since DS1052E and DS1102E have identical hardware, it didn't come logical to me to order from a foreign country. Also in case of a malfunction, it is easier for me to contact the local.There is a 278$ offer for DS1052E online as well, but the dealer didn't look that trustable to me.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 06:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: McMonster on December 01, 2011, 05:56:43 pmI inspected a little further and I think all the functionality including the graphics are coded in VHDL. That alsomightbe the reason why there are not that many mods around. From my experience I can safely say that reverse engineering a generated bitstream VHDL design iswaytoo much harder to reverse a compiled C binary.Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 01, 2011, 05:57:15 pmIt wouldn't be hard to implement function generator to this device, is there any post on this ?I guess it's the company strategy. After all they have a seperate line of product as waveform generators.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 07:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 01, 2011, 05:40:47 pmsqrt((1 ns)^2 + (3.5 ns)^2)) = 3.6 ns

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 09:07:35 pm
content: This is the only question left unanswered. Good news, no, it doesn't over heat. You can run it probably indefinitely in room temperature without an issue. Certainly at least 1 week continuously if not more.When I first got it I ran it 24hr x 7 days [ as part of a burn in, trying to fail something in the DSO, and while under warranty], and I used a thermocouple to check its internal temps; the stock noisy fan does work to maintain temp. The actual temperature is very stable, I think I posted the result on eevblog its in the archives under a thread on changing the Rigol fan.Quote from: y33t on December 01, 2011, 05:40:47 pm

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 09:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 01, 2011, 06:41:16 pmhow? post? no.sat: i know you are the one who should answer that question.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 09:38:41 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 01, 2011, 06:41:16 pmThis seems far-fetched to me. I don't believe the scopes have anything like a high-speed DAC, what part of the signal would be generating the signals?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2011, 11:49:25 am
content: Thanks mecha. I think alm said the key issue, a basic scope typically won't have a good DAC, if one at all.Also, many 'all in one' type devices often have the 'other' devices poor value for price. Take the Agilent 3000 series with the FG option that Dave recently reviewed [ even with the updated FG firmware]. For $400 you could get a much better FG than what Agilent provides. Even the capacitance meter in many DMM is 'basic' compared to getting a dedicated one [ which cost often as much as the DMM, if not more.]Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 01, 2011, 09:22:29 pmQuote from: alm on December 01, 2011, 09:38:41 pm

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 11:52:03 am
content: Quote from: alm on December 01, 2011, 09:38:41 pmI am not talking about a fully functioning high end function generator but it would be nice to an adjustable (duty cycle and frequency) pwm module. There is altera fpga on the device and I don't think whole blocks of the hardware used in the design.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 02:16:34 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 03, 2011, 11:52:03 amyou mean like adding code section to it? lets say you managed, where's the output pin? have you studied the hardware?

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 04:25:35 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 03, 2011, 02:16:34 pmYes, like code section.I studied both altera and xilinix fpga in theory and implementation thus I assumed it wouldn't be that hard but no, I didn't study this device specifically. PWM signal can be directly generated in one available output port of the fpga, it will not require any sort of analog components. If there are people who is also interested in implementing a custom module to this device, I would be glad to contribute and take a seat.Two possibilities that will keep this from happening ;1- there are no pins physically available on the fpga.2- there is block code/data protection on the fpga.

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 04:32:23 pm
content: Couldn't we use the 40 pin header designed for the logic analyser?

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 05:20:29 pm
content: Don't buy the DS1052E; the DS1102E is now the same price ($399) and doesn't need to be hacked to get the 100MHz bandwidth. Buy it instead

author: ben1066
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 05:29:47 pm
content: If you read what he said about customs you'd see why its still prefered.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2011, 05:38:36 pm
content: Hm, I would not particularly like to hack ageneratorinto a highly-sensitivemeasurementinstrument.It is easy enough to inject all sorts of nasty noise into the analog side of the box. I know this is done in the industry, but those boxes (I assume/hope) have been designed from day 1 to do this, so have the necessary shielding and whatnot.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2011, 06:44:16 pm
content: Quote from: ben1066 on December 03, 2011, 04:32:23 pmI had read somewhere that the LA module (daughter board) itself contains a dedicated FPGA. Thus I think there shouldn't be any analog components between LA pins and the FPGA (core). But this is just a guess, where does the LA input pins actually lead to ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2011, 07:27:02 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 04, 2011, 06:44:16 pmthere's thread in another forum (rcgroup iirc) discussing about this. there's another LA head thats connected to LA front panel, and the LA head got circuitry too (protection etc). you try to find it. imo, its better for you to study on how to make the LA module working (instead of try to generate signal out of it, you may want to look at DDS3x25 thread discussion about this fpga based AWG), because i think it already on the software, i pressed the LA button on my ds1052e, it says "no LA module detected" something like that. so if you can make it work, will be a good thing, i willl be willing to help

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2011, 01:05:51 am
content: I don't see the point of implementing a basic function generator inside the DS1052E FPGA. You'd basically be using it as an expensive FPGA development board. You'd still have to add an analog output stage (at the very least a buffer to provide some extra ESD protection and output current) and connectors. Might as well grab a cheap FPGA dev board. The only advantage I see to the scope is that you get the controls for free. The downsides (voiding warranty, risk of bricking your scope, FPGA may be protected, may have no free gates, no free pins, tricky software interactions) outweigh the benefits in my opinion.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2011, 05:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: alm on December 05, 2011, 01:05:51 amYou don't have to addanyanalog stage to generate PWM. I did itevenwith PIC microcontrollers so will be a piece of cake for the FPGA. You can generate PWM at one pin and can capture it from another pin on an FPGA without any analog stuff. I am not talking about turning the DS1052E to a function generator, what I mention isaddingsome code at some other block of FPGA. Thus your recommendation about using a cheap FPGA board will actually be expensive to me because I already paid for the hardware with presumably usable space.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2011, 05:55:25 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 04, 2011, 07:27:02 pmSo you are saying that the DS1052E firmware already contains the code for LA and it just pokes a hardware module to activate it ? If this is the case then this became more interestingOn the other hand, you can't know for sure that if core pokes for LA hardware to activate the existing code or the actual LA hardware contains the code for it self. Latter sounds more probable then the first to me. I mean if I was the vendor I would keep the relevant software on the daughter board (LA hardware). Will look into DDS3x25 thread once I find it.Great than that makes two of us, we might make this work if possible. If we brick the device somehow, this is already the best place to be.ps; my last sentence made me question myself because I will get the device on wednesday and talking about bricking it before I get it

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2011, 08:35:21 pm
content: Quotei hope you dont brick the already paid hardware. no i'm not into bricking my scopeand maybe you are right about LA FW in the daughter card. i'll never know. i bought a dev kit for fpga for less than $20, if i want to mess with something, i'll mess with the $20 board. not the $300++ board/device.Quotehere, good read23 pages...Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 11:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 05, 2011, 08:35:21 pmThanks for the link, that was some stuff to digest. Guess what ? I also decided to buy a Hantek DDS3x25 after I read the threadYou have written a code to get over 7.69~7.5MHz sync issue then this means I can port your code to work under Linuxtoo many good news in such a short periodbtw, did you crack DDS3x25 open ? whats the technology? I am interested in because I would like to have programmable filters like in DDS3005.I am researching more about LA implementation for DS1052E, will report once done.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2011, 11:58:50 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 06, 2011, 11:17:46 pmDid Hantek release the drivers and SDK for Linux?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2011, 02:25:38 am
content: i've posted the teardown picture in the thread. if its missing, msg me i've forgotten which page is it. yes not sure if you can make it run under linux, unless you make your own driver. feel free to PM me for the goltek code if you want. cheers.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 05:02:21 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 07, 2011, 02:25:38 amGot it, looks nice. I didn't get the device yet once I do, I'll be knocking your doorOn the other hand, DS1052E arrived, feels nice for now. Came with HW:58 2.05. Downgraded, upgraded, showed some love and it got into 100mhz club. Run madmar's flickering test it updates data at 50ms polling speed flawlessly. Couldn't find your implementation (Toyscope) anywhere though ?There is one issue, when probes are free I measure a peak of fluctuating 80mV with 10-20mV average. I thought this might be originating from EMI but it is the same when probes are not even connected to osc. WTF ?Also device is USB 1.1 meaning maximum of 12mbps is allowed. How many bits does it take to represent one sample with this device ? I know its 1gs per second thus for one channel 1024xbits. I am trying to make (almost) real time acquisition, only the voltage.I am still looking into enhancement ideas, there might rise a possibility to drive Hantek 3x25 over DS1052E for complete sync.Sun is rising now, time to zzzz. cheersedit; it's 8bit thus >> 1024x8 = 8kbit/s which is pretty low I think. There seems to be no hardware limitation to view data real time. I will look into the other stuff but this is my priority now (plot channel 1 vs time over VISA/USBTMC in Matlab).:STOP //stop acquisition:WAV:POIN:MODE NOR //grab data frm channel 1:WAV:DATA? CHAN1:CHAN1:SCAL? //voltage scale:CHAN1:OFFS? //voltage offset:TIM:SCAL? // get time scale:TIM:OFFS? // get time offset:RUN // run acquisition:KEY:FORC // put the scope back in local modeNow, I had read that the scope crashes if one wants to read out of range. I want to hear more about this! You coded these stuff in VB, I assume you know the details.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 03:04:47 pm
content: here's the toyscope and the class i made (not sure if its completed, updated or what) maybe it will be helpful for you.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 07:07:40 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 09, 2011, 03:04:47 pmThanks for the link mate!When I do ":WAVeform:DATA? CHAN1" I get the following output ;23 38 30 30 30 30 30 36 30 30 CE 35 36 35 36 3435 36 36 35 35 35 36 34 35 36 35 36 35 36 36 3535 36 36 35 35 36 35 36 35 35 35 36 34 36 35 3635 36 36 34 35 35 35 36 35 36 35 34 35 CE CD CECE CE CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CD CECE CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CD CE CE CDCF CD CE CE CE CD CE CE CD CE CE CE CE CE CE 3636 35 34 36 36 34 35 35 35 36 35 36 35 36 35 3636 35 35 36 35 34 35 35 35 35 36 35 35 35 36 3536 34 35 34 35 36 35 35 35 36 35 36 35 36 35 3634 CD CE CE CE CD CE CE CD CF CE CD CE CD CD CECE CD CD CE CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CF CE CECE CD CE CD CD CF CE CE CE CE CE CE CE CF CE CDCE CE CE 35 35 36 36 34 35 34 34 36 35 34 35 3635 35 36 34 36 33 35 35 35 34 35 34 35 36 35 3435 35 35 36 34 36 35 34 36 35 36 34 35 35 34 3634 36 35 34 35 CD CE CD CD CE CE CD CE CE CD CECE CE CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CDCE CD CE CD CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CD CE CE CDCE CE CD CE CE CD CE 35 36 34 35 34 35 34 35 3435 35 35 34 35 34 36 35 36 34 35 34 35 35 35 3434 35 35 35 35 36 36 34 35 35 36 34 35 35 34 3534 36 34 35 35 35 35 34 35 CD CD CF CE CD CE CCCE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CDCE CD CE CD CD CF CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CDCE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CD CE 36 35 35 34 3535 36 35 35 35 36 35 34 35 34 35 34 35 34 35 3336 34 36 34 34 35 35 34 35 34 36 34 35 35 35 3635 34 35 34 35 36 34 36 35 34 36 35 34 CD CD CECE CE CE CD CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CC CE CDCE CD CE CC CE CD CE CD CD CE CE CD CE CE CE CECE CE CE CC CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CE 3535 34 35 34 36 34 33 36 35 35 35 35 34 36 35 3534 36 35 34 35 34 35 35 35 36 35 36 34 35 35 3634 35 35 34 35 34 35 34 34 36 35 34 36 34 35 3634 CD CE CD CE CE CD CE CD CE CE CE CE CD CE CDCE CD CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CD CE CE CD CE CDCE CE CE CD CE CE CE CD CE CD CE CD CE CD CD CECE CDWhich part of this data is the "actual data" ? To put it another words, which portion of this data is plotable ?Couldn't get VISA runtime to work under Slackware64 13.37, I plan to continuously run :WAVeform:DATA? CHAN1 for DAQ as real-time as possible. Also I had read that reading the long memory might be very close to real time acquisition. I checked your code and it looks fine, but VB and C are as different as they get. I am using rigolterm.c as skeleton (data provided above is output of a mod of rigolterm).Is there a better way from continiuosly sending :WAVeform:DATA? CHAN1 ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2011, 09:42:35 pm
content: Quotesending ":WAVeform:DATA? CHAN1" will return 600 points from screen (not 1024), there's another version that it will return 10 bytes string (header) to show how many data in following sequence. you also can check here...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4473i dont know any other method other than provided api (visa32.dll)

author: Lawsen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2011, 12:34:01 am
content: I love my Rigol 1052E for $355.00 from a store in Hong Kong. I use that oscilloscope to view square waves from a HP giant plotter circuit board and even experiment with the 555 oscillator. The color display is nice enough for me. I cannot asked for more in my service applications. You can always save up or work for name brands like Agilent DSOX. I would like to try the Clever Scope, an USB via computer oscilloscope. Rigol 1052E does not has a full function signal generator. It is just a square wave. You might try different brands of probes like those by Agilent. The screen on the Rigol is better than the monochrome screen on low end Tektronix digital oscilloscopes. I have not used the FFT to give you an opinion. For everyday electronics work, the Rigol is one of my favorite. It does not weighs much to be carried on the train to commute to part time work, too. There are small pocket signal generators for $60.00. I like to experiment with these.

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2011, 09:42:57 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 09, 2011, 09:42:35 pmOk then, 600 points and each point is represented by a 8-bit decimal ? What is the time reference for these points, is it 600 points per second ?Btw, how much lag is introduced in your ToyScope ? I mean how realtime is it?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2011, 01:15:57 pm
content: Quote from: y33t on December 10, 2011, 09:42:57 amyes 8bit. try to plot it as is, then you'll figure out what. its inverted on screen. try to play with vertical offset as well etc etc.lawsen: its usefull for seismic and geophysics analysis as well, right?

author: y33t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2011, 09:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 10, 2011, 01:15:57 pmAlso it might be involved in quantum entanglement phenomena as wellThis 600 points, does it correspond to 1 second ? I understand that because we are reading from the internal flash memory, we are reading LIFO thus real time is impossible. Is it possible to read a specific amount of points or do we have to get it in bulks of 600 ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2011, 11:20:56 pm
content: answered...1)tryto plot it as is, then you'll figure out what. its inverted on screen.2)Other Than FFT Feature Useful for an Oscilloscope3)I Need Help to get Rigol DSO Command Respond from PC