too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 03:02:46 am
content: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/portal-by-arubixs-flexible-wearable-smartphoneOh no.....

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 03:19:38 am
content: Looks like they have individual square PCBs interconnected with flex wire and an OLED screen, the batteries will have to be modular connected with flex wire as well.Good timing on the campaign.Still, I don't think $300K is enough to get a full phone done and manufactured at $500 a pop for a brand new company that's never done it. And Flexible funding to top it off

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 04:59:12 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on September 29, 2014, 04:47:02 amThey did?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 05:10:18 am
content: Quote from: n45048 on September 29, 2014, 04:59:12 amWhere have you been on the last week. The whole bendgate and burned phones in the microwave are trending everywhere because people are idiots

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 08:10:38 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 29, 2014, 03:19:38 amI wondering how many developers and money is sunk into a "big name" phone. Id imagine atleast 100 and a few million a the bare minimum?Arn EMC and compliance tests very very very stringent on phones?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 08:14:45 am
content: wait 2 more apple generations and there obsession with making things thinner will force it to bend like a roll up (you can only get so thin before the space required for a rigid frame exceeds the space required for the electronics)

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 08:27:17 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on September 29, 2014, 08:14:45 amI dont want my phone to look like a......

author: DomesticHacks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 10:56:35 am
content: I was about to post this here, but someone was faster.I think it's bullshit, since there isn't even one image with a working prototype.Brilliant:QuoteTranslation => We don't knowQuoteWank wank wankQuoteBeside many empty (marketing) texte there are Excuses, excuses and even more excuses.Why are they trying so hard do convince us? I think we all know the answer.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 11:34:20 am
content: wow ! a mobilephone SOAP !

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 12:01:59 pm
content: This will be another scam campaign which will take $300k and never deliver anything except some cheap $5 headphones.Indiegogo should ban these complex project campaigns unless they submit a working prototype directly. Not just photos or renderings. It must have all or a significant part of the described functionality.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 12:19:03 pm
content: Quote from: n45048 on September 29, 2014, 04:59:12 amThey designed a phone that bent (iPhone 6+), but it wasn't supposed to be bendable to that extent!

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 05:37:09 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 29, 2014, 12:19:03 pmThe Apple designed Banana(phone)!(could be the official commercial for it)

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 02:52:53 am
content: There is so, so much wrong with this campaign that I don't even know where to begin.I'll just say that there are a lot of dumb people in the world, and the people investing for a flexible funded new type of phone concept with equal or better specs to top-shelf smartphones for less than half the price, developed and mass-produced in a matter of weeks/few months by a team of kids who say "building a smartphone and tech company isn't rocket science" - are people who deserve to be scammed out of their money.At some point, you have to have at least a functioning IQ and if you piss away your hard earned money for perpetual motion machines, well, it's your fault for being dumb

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 02:57:29 am
content: http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/09/28/disruptoverload-the-portal-is-everything-wrong-with-smartwatches-and-everything-wrong-with-crowdfunding-at-the-same-time/

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 10:54:34 am
content: Did you notice that on all images the time is exactly "15:56"?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 12:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: frenky on September 30, 2014, 10:54:34 amNot just "15:56" but "15:56 PM" in many of the images.Even better in one image it is "15:56AM"!

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 01:42:21 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on September 30, 2014, 12:55:14 pmeven the 15:56 PM is a pure nonsense.... either 15:56 OR 3:56 PM but NOT 15:56 PMso it's a proof that not a single fuck was given while creating the renderingsi'm very sorry for all the backers of that scam.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 02:47:09 pm
content: Haha, just noticed the time.It even has a 3200mhA battery, wait, yes, milli hours per Amps?Eh?And it has the "fastest" multi core processor!What happens if they bring out a faster one whilst shipping? Trade Descriptions! (Shipping!)Wouldn't it be easier to strap an iPhone or Android phone to your wrist? Might be smaller!I'll give credit to the graphic artists though.

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 03:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 30, 2014, 02:47:09 pmWhen reading that I imagine something like this:http://www.brightsideofnews.com/Data/2009_8_21/IBM-to-release-first-public-information-on-POWER7/IBM_POWER6plus_675.jpg?(IBM Power 5GHz Octacore)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 03:38:52 pm
content: >> too good to be trueI don't see any good. I prefer to read from flat screens and have my mobile device in my pocket rather than on my arm.What's next, rounded wallets and credit cards that you can carry on your arm?

author: jolshefsky
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 03:47:51 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on September 30, 2014, 02:47:09 pmTo be fair, that's just an unconventional unit.It just means the battery can deliver 1 amp for 3,200 milli-hours or 3.2 hours. 3200 mAh means it can deliver 3,200 milli-amps for one hour ... QED.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 05:19:08 pm
content: Yes, I expect it is a typo though, I haven't seen any other battery manufacturer of something I presume a LiPo indicating how many milli hours per amp it can deliver. It is possible to rearrange the equation on anything to get the same result.Is there no protection to the pledger in these kinds of campaigns? If the product doesn't exist or isn't ever going to exist, is that purely down to the pledgers own initiative to spot a fraud or do the companies running them have an obligation to do seek legal advice after 'n' number of complaints of non-delivery?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 07:28:48 pm
content: There appears to be no legal recourse other than suing the guys directly, due to such costs it would probably only happen through class action cases. I hope someone makes an example of these scammers soon, because it's really tiring to see honest people lose money - just because they can't spot that something just isn't currently practical or possible. Not everyone is an engineer, and not everyone knows where to research what technologies actually exist, and what don't...For example, flexible lithium polymer type batteries do exist (my university, the University of Leeds has developed ones) but as far as I'm aware, the capacity is very limited - last I'd heard was on the order of 100mAh max. The problem is to make a larger capacity cell (of cell-phone like dimensions) you need to roll the layers in a manner not unlike making an electrolytic capacitor. Bending the battery then can violate the spacing between the layers, which can lead to short circuits and Bad Things™. It's possible to fix the form factor of a LiPo (Nike+ fuelband has curved LiPos) but only during manufacture. It can't be changed while in use.Curved OLED panels do exist but only in very large sizes (55" for TVs, etc.) No manufacturer is selling flexible OLED panels of any form factor. Prototypes have been demonstrated at low densities. Many such displays suffer from repeated stress. The bonding on the chip-on-glass fails after many flexing operations, leading to stuck lines on the panel.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 07:36:57 pm
content: Ah, seems like it's been nuked by the Indiegogo team. Good!.... for reasons other than which I expected:http://www.arubixs.com/press-release/

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 10:16:42 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on September 30, 2014, 07:36:57 pmVery strange.I don't actually see a patent under that guy's name that has the claims he lists. Furthermore, it's far fetched that his claims describe an actual invention rather than just an idea of how a theoretical device could work.He sounds like some kind of wannabe patent troll / egghead inventor-wannabe.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 10:37:18 pm
content: I almost welcome it, if it stops a scam like this.Patent idea: "A Process for Extracting Monetary Funds off Unaware Individuals via Crowd-Sourcing"Claims:- A method wherein a "crowd-funding" site is used to fund a hardware or software Project (herein "the Project") of high complexity;- The method in Claim 1 wherein a hardware function of a device is not practically implementable with commercially available components;- The method in Claim 1 wherein the Developer "slags off" other products for not providing said impossible features;- The method in Claim 1 wherein the funding goal is not sufficient to develop the Project;- The method in Claim 1 wherein the funding is set as "Flexible Fund" (or equivalent), as an insurance to receiving the Funds;- The method in Claim 2 wherein the hardware or software project is never delivered, in whole or in part;- The method in Claim 2 wherein, if delivered, the result suffers from serious design flaws, lack of engineering oversight and poor engineering consideration;- The method in Claim 5 wherein Updates are issued in decreasing frequency as the Backer stress metric (see figure 4) increases;- The method in Claim 5 wherein the Lead Developer of the Project uses Project funds to purchase a luxury automobile, an exclusive condo, or shopping spree items.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 12:06:32 am
content: That attempt is ludicrous, since they depict a regular smart watch on their blog:www.ontomax.com/newsarchive/2014/july.htmwww.intellitablet.com/index.htmThere is prior art and commercial products before their claim.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 04:18:38 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on September 30, 2014, 10:16:42 pmHe is a serial inventor. Probably one of these:https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:%22Christian+Stroetmann%22#q=inassignee%3A%22Christian+Stroetmann%22&hl=en&tbm=pts&start=20

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 05:20:29 am
content: Quote from: zapta on October 01, 2014, 04:18:38 amI don't think he is an inventor, I think he is a patent troll.Check this out:https://www.google.com/patents/DE202013009033U1In October of 2013 he files a patent for "Data glasses, having an embedded portable computer system, a power supply, at least a transparent, multi-directional device for the optical signaling of the variable information"That is Google glass, which was first demo'ed in 2011, and sold as a commercial product to developers in early 2013.I think this guy takes advantage of the fact that the patent office (in the USA and likely elsewhere) grants patents on obvious things if there isn't already a patent for it. This guy seems to take things that are already being made/sold and patents aspects of them (or the whole device). His hope is probably that companies will license "his IP" or buy his patent (i.e. pay him to go away) rather than deal with a patent fight.

author: macgyver0815
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 09:45:35 am
content: The patent system is sooooooo last century...He has even patented multi constellation GNSS receivers plus dead reckoning as it seems ;-)(GPS+GLONASS receivers, which are commercially available since at least 5 years or so - would have to check how long exactly)https://www.google.com/patents/DE202013009159U1?cl=en&dq=inassignee:%22Christian+Stroetmann%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9skrVNWHFoWkygPqlYHYAg&ved=0CFsQ6AEwBzgUBrutally obvious patent troll, but I somehow don't feel sorry for this particular project ;-)

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 06:22:34 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on September 30, 2014, 07:28:48 pmThose both exist with practical specs and have been used in production by a major manufacturer.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 07:03:22 am
content: I thought the IPhone 6+ was the first flexible smartphoneToo soon?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 12:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on October 07, 2014, 07:03:22 amToo late!See post #11

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2014, 10:45:09 am
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on October 07, 2014, 06:22:34 amPerhaps I should have clarified. No technologies exist to demonstrate the flexibility of the Portal specification.You can build some components with a little bit of flexibility (or flexibility in one axis like for G Flex), but ultimately you're limited by currently available technology.