Beginner starting out, what test equipment should I invest in first? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:03:27 pm
content: My name is Benjamin, and I'm a first year EET student. I've been trying to set up my own home electronics lab so I can learn things myself before my school SLOWLY gets around to them. However, I have no clue what test equipment I should get first, or what parts I need to get started. I've watched Dave's video on setting up an electronics lab, but I don't have the money to just buy everything at once.I'm wondering what equipment would be most beneficial for my supplemental self-education of electronics, and what I should seek out and buy first.Most of the stuff I have so far are things I bought for video game console modification, as that is what initially got me interested in electronics. I've successfully and neatly installed an NESRGB board into my NES, replaced the capacitors in my Game Gear and modified my Sega Genesis for S-video. I'm fairly competent with my soldering skills, but I want to actually learn about circuits instead of just following and relying on other's work.The equipment I currently have:Hakko FX888D Soldering Station,Hakko FR300 desoldering gun,Milwaukee CAT. NO:2216-20 Multi-Meter (I know it's an electrician's meter, but it is fairly rugged and it was a gift from my dad that sells power tools, I'm not complaining!)A kind-of working Leader LBO-520 analog oscilloscope (I already made a post on this in repair and might have made myself look silly. I gave up on trying to fix it for now as it is out of my abilities to troubleshoot.The wave form shrinks vertically when it is moved to the bottom of the screen.)Basic ESD mat and wrist-strap,General hand tools including screwdrivers, side cutters, pliers, etc.Solder wick, small wire, etc.What should I be looking into getting next that would help me in actually learning about electronics and electronic circuits?I hope I'm not coming off as an idiot or being rude here. I'm just slightly overwhelmed trying to figure out what I actually need and what would be most beneficial to me overall.Thanks in advance for any advice.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:16:03 pm
content: QuoteIt depends on what kind of "electronics" you are interested in and what's on your bookshelf already...

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:30:48 pm
content: My bookshelf is sadly rather barren, outside of the books I have for my college courses.I guess I could do with a few book recommendations too.As far as what I'm interested in, I'm not entirely sure yet. I'd like to learn the general basic stuff, and go from there. I do have an interest in analog video circuitry that comes from my retro gaming hobby, but I think that may be a bit advanced for me right now.Sorry, I'm basically a complete noob outside of soldering and identifying basic components and reading basic schematics. My college courses so far have been on extremely basic stuff like what components are, what they do, how to use equipment, and a ton of calculations involving Ohm's Law and other basic algebra.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:37:50 pm
content: There is some free electronics videos or tutorials found on the sticky post at the top of the forum.It sounds like you enjoy a little bit of repair, you could also pick up something like Electronic Troubleshooting (Jermome E. Oleksy) on Amazon, it's only $6 secondhand. The book is a little out of date but has a consolidation of concepts about repair that are really hard to find without a lot of noise (people who have no idea) on the net.Grab anything and everything you can find that is broken and open it up and attempt to repair it or do a fault analysis. This can also become a sideline if you catch a bargain to fund yourself into better gear.The other thing is look for kitsets or projects with good instructions that show theory of operation. Focus on one thing at a time unless it's totally over your head. If you don't understand something take a note and set aside some time to break it down and learn the theory behind it.Don't buy gear for the sake of it, learning working towards goals will bring more satisfaction in the long run.

author: MatthewEveritt
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:44:02 pm
content: I might suggest a bench PSU (I've lost count of the times the current limiter has saved parts from self inflicted 'learning opportunities' ).Other than that I'd say you were pretty well set up. Better than me anyway. Get stuck into something and see how it goes.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:53:33 pm
content: Get a second, quality meter. You can do voltage and current measurements or simple sanity checks. If the budget is there, try to match the test equipment in your school's lab. You will be able to learn to properly use test equipment faster. If that isn't possible, try get the same type of equipment but older. The same basic principles of use will apply. Build your book collection. You can get the Art of Electronics, books on analog and digital circuit design, op amps, etc. I would even plan on keeping your college textbooks. The foundational information will always stay the same. You can download free circuit simulator software and pcb design software to broaden your skill set. As far as parts, think of projects you would like to tackle. Build up bill of materials lists and add extra to build up a stock and cover the inevitable oops. You can buy kits of assorted jellybean parts cheaply from China. The quality may not be the best but they are good enough for prototyping and experimentation. Don't forget a breadboard or 2 and some prototyping boards. Hope this helps.

author: AlStorm Prime
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 01:57:40 pm
content: For me this already looks like nice starting kit. All I would like to add will be a "consumables" and "toys" to play with.Like prototype boards, few breadboards, microcontroller development kit (like32F401CDISCOVERYor any other you will find attractive).Also, some kind of power supply can come handy. I was fine to start (sounds like it was years ago, but it wasn't) with batteries and basic AC/DC adapter. May be you will want something more advanced here.P.S. As you said - budget is limited. In this case, probably, you will find more reasonably to start first and make the decisions to spent money only when you will face the situation you will not be able to solve with the instruments you already have or can get access to in school lab.

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 02:42:39 pm
content: Wow. A lot of great suggestions here.@Shock, I think you hit the nail on the head, I am interested in repair work. Specifically on old game consoles. I think I will be purchasing that book. I already have a few things lying around that need some repair work. The majority of equipment I have right now was stuff I bought because I needed it for the mod work I was planning on doing.@MatthewEveritt I've been looking into getting a bench power supply, but I am utterly lost as to what I should get. I've been thinking about getting one of those Elenco AC/DC power supply kits that go for ~$70 on amazon, but I kind of want to follow Dave's suggestion and build my own, as I feel I would learn a lot more that way.@GreyWoolfe I've been tempted to do that. The meter I have now is a decent one. It was a gift from my dad (He sells power tools for a living,) and he normally sells them for ~$80-$100 or so. A second multi-meter would be nice, but I'd rather focus on spending the money I have on other stuff right now. I've been looking at the Art Of Electronics book for awhile, but I don't know if I should get the second edition, or the third edition. I have bought my textbooks for my electronics classes with the intention of keeping them as well. I've been looking at buying an assortment grab bag or a few kits of some jellybean parts. I have no idea what I actually need though. I've also been meaning to buy a breadboard for awhile now actually. Not sure why I haven't yet.@Alstorm Prime I do need some consumables and toys to play with! My school lab has plenty of equipment that I have access to, the issue with that being it is an hour drive away.I appreciate the responses.Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I'd like to learn as much as I can!

author: fivefish
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 02:56:47 pm
content: QuoteYeah, I would start with that route... start with the power supply kit. Get comfortable now working with 110Volts, and get the PSU working. Then use that as a jumping point to building your own PSU design.You know, sometimes I'm surprised when people have avoided this aspect for such a long time, they have built several (low voltage) projects but have not done a single 110Volt wiring task. They lose their minds crazy when it's time to wire the 110V section of a power supply project and just get "frozen" and can't move forward with this step.The sooner you get over this "hump" and fear, the big boost it will do to your confidence.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 03:04:11 pm
content: If you are going to focus on repair, then a second multimeter is really good to have. it would be really nice to have one with a microamp range. Seeing as you already have a meter that appears to be safe for higher energy work, you can skimp and get something more like the Uni-T UT136B. I did a review on it:Get a cheap hot air station too perhaps. The power supply kit is a good idea I think too.

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 03:50:21 pm
content: So, buy a breadboard, buy some books, buy the power supply kit, buy a cheap hot air rework station (would be nice for re-flowing handheld console screen ribbon cables...) and get a second cheapo multi-meter to go along with my decent one?I've also been looking into getting one of those $50 mini-dso function generator kits. Kind of leery about that one though. Afraid it will turn out to be a piece of junk.Once again, I appreciate the responses.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:08:21 pm
content: At your stage and with your equipment, there is only one necessary too that you didn't mention: your brain!You are at university. You should be stretching yourself to do things that are sensible but out of your comfort zone. You should be partially failing and partially succeeding, and thinking about "now that I know the problems, what would I do differently next time?".A professional engineer is someone thatcan selectsolvableproblemscan work out what they will need to know and obtain before starting (even then they will get it slightly wrong!)can use imagination to overcome obstacleswith whatever is to handcan do for $1 that which any fool can do for $10My advice to you is therefore to select something that interests you and find a way of doing it with your current equipment. Only if you knowwhythat equipmentcannotbe sufficient should you borrow something.For me, back in the 70s, the stretch project was to build a 6800-based computer from scratch using discrete TTL, a multimeter, LEDs and switches. It worked, was an unholy mess, but I learned a lot and it impressed potential employers.There are only two mottos that I think are worth a tinker's cuss. One was on the desk of IBM's TJ Watson: "Think".

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:12:53 pm
content: ... and a TransistorTester of courseGet one via ebay or build one yourself. Great project for MCU beginners and very valuable.

author: mich41
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 04:58:02 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 12, 2015, 04:08:21 pmSecond that. The stuff I bought out of immediate need tends to get used over and over again and everything else lies in boxes. What's the point of getting two multimeters before you have any idea where you'd like to stick all those probes?

author: firehopper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 05:19:46 pm
content: forest mims books! thats how I got started. bought the big green one from radio shack. and got hooked.. this was over 20 years ago though

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 05:29:23 pm
content: I'd say for a basic lab:Edit: In priority order1. Hand tools2. Soldering Iron3. Meter4. Scope5. Power supplyAnything else should be considered a luxury and secondary to getting parts for your projects, until you have the money to do both. Your projects can of course be useful bits of test gear.

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 10:20:26 pm
content: Thanks for all the great responses! You guys are a great help and have collectively given me an idea as to where to go with my supplemental electronics hobby.I decided it would be best to buy a few books right now, and learn some stuff from them. I already bought the Troubleshooting Electronics book suggested by Shock earlier in this thread, but I'd also like to order something on practical circuit design. I'd like to order the Art of Electronics, but I don't know what edition to get, second or third? Another book I'm looking into is Practical Electronics for Inventors: Third Edition. Any good? I'm sure Uni will teach me ton of theory, but I want practical knowledge!As far as equipment, I think fixing my scope would be an excellent idea once I finish reading the Troubleshooting Electronics book.I also think I'll order that power supply kit, even if I am disappointed by it's lack of features.As was mentioned, it would get me used to working on 110V wiring, and apparently comes with theory of operation, and other educational stuff. I think I'd enjoy putting it together, and it would give me something to use to power basic DC circuits as I learn.As far as parts, should I get a grab bag, or should I order a few kits to give me some basic jellybean parts?

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 10:56:29 pm
content: To be honest, if you're at Uni then you can safely skip "Practical electronic for inventors" and go straight for art of electronics.Horowitz's book has this awesome thing for EE students (or any engineering), that it's in most part readable for anyone, but there are hard parts when you're stuck and normally you would have to refer to another book but as EE student with theoretical apparatus you can work it on your own (maybe slower than by googling) using your theoretical jibber-jabber:)Don't worry too much about jellybean parts, after you have started actually assembling some projects, you'll (sooner than you'd expect) turn into jellybean hoarder and won't have that problem anymore (not that situations like "you don't have that 2.2R 1% 1W resistor at midnight and start looking for home appliances to salvage something because you really want to check this cool circuit out" won't happen, I'm just presenting a general picture).*looking at electrolytic caps collection inherited from my father, they were expensive (especially high voltage ones) in Poland during commie times, so every non-repairable TV ended with salvaging all caps, they are probably all dried out at the moment, but I can't bring myself to throw them out (maybe I'll make reverse polarity surprise fireworks strip from them someday to give them a good funeral)*

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 11:05:14 pm
content: Thanks karoru! Good to know! Would I be alright ordering the 2nd edition of Art of Electronics? Or should I go for the third edition and shell out the extra cash? Or would I be better off ordering both?

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2015, 11:10:50 pm
content: There is no reason to order both. I'd just order third edition, second one is kind of rusty in microprocessors department - Motorola 68000 may not be the platform of choice for explaining stuff in 2015;)

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 12:37:28 am
content: For things you need:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/from-no-parts-to-decent-stockpile-best-approach/Resources:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/and Google by using this method :xxx filetype:pdffor example : "basic electronics filetype:pdf"A Fellowes binder to make your own books (from the 1,000s of books found using above method)http://www.amazon.com/Fellowes-Binding-Machine-Star-5006501/dp/B008WJYMTQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1447373493&sr=1-1&keywords=fellowes+binding+machinePower Designs power supply via eBay - there is a large following on this forumIf you are lucky maybe a non-working one then you could repair it. A non-working is hard to find because of their high quality. If you like Art Deco you will like them, especially the 2020s.Volunteer at a thrift shop to test and repair their electronicsStudy the attached photo for more ideasCan you afford the same equipment as your school's lab? Can you list what they have?

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 02:59:28 am
content: I've already noticed both of those threads, and have skimmed both. I plan on going over them in more detail over the weekend.I can't afford the same equipment as my school. They have basic Tektronix benchtop DSO units, 100 MHZ BK precision CROs, function generators, frequency counters, separate AC and DC power supplies, transistor testers, curve tracers, microscopes, and other things I can't remember right now/don't know about yet.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 03:01:01 am
content: What exactly is an EET course?

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 03:12:11 am
content: Electronics Engineering Technology.

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 04:20:53 am
content: Ah, is that a BSc. or BEng. degree?Just curious as you mentioned that you're being taught how to use equipment. Which I think is good practice but was not the case at my University so without background knowledge of using the gear, it turned into a noob fest in the labs pretty quickly. i.e., people trying to use the spectrum analysers as scopes etc. Was a good laugh...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 10:53:33 am
content: Quote from: karoru on November 12, 2015, 10:56:29 pmI have both, and I find the Art of Electronics (3rd ed.) to be far better written, and far better organized, than Practical Electronics for Inventors.

author: YoshiKnuuckles
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 11:28:18 am
content: I'm not sure actually. The program I'm in now is a two-year (more like two and a half,) Associates of Science at a community college. If I want I can transfer to a traditional University after I finish and go for a bachelors in EET.Apparently the difference between the EET program and the EE program is that EET is less theory and more hands on experience based, as opposed to EE which is straight theory and little hands on experience. At least that's how it was explained to me in the orientation course I had to take last semester.I do like that I'm already learning how to use equipment and actually allowed to play with the equipment and components a bit in labs.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2015, 01:01:00 pm
content: Yoshi, I have bought and built the Elenco power supply. Google mods for it. You can easily add bleeder resistors, over and reverse voltage protection diodes and swap out the potentiometers with inexpensive 10 turn pots for more voltage settings control. It was added fun to figure out how to incorporate the mods and it makes the power supply more useful. You can even add a display if you want.