Recommendation for timers for DIN top-hat rail mounting (230/400V~)? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 05:10:53 pm
content: I am Looking for a recommendation for timers for DIN top-hat rail mounting.I want to build a simple control box with a timer and three-phaserelaycontactor to limit the charging time for my hybrid car using a three-phase outlet (3 x 16 A, 230/400 V~).I want to be able to set the time based on the initial charge level so that the expected charge level doesn't exceed 80%.The time interval setting should be easy to change without extensive menu navigation.

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 07:47:39 am
content: I recently had to do this for a borehole pump, it could only run for 10 mins at a time due casing issues and dry season so i used a Sonoff wifi switch(din rail mounted from amazon ) controlling a 3 phase contactor , firmware was replaced by esphome which can do timers via a little bit of code, later i added current sensing so if the pump well was dry it would sense the drop in load which helped a great deal, it now automated filling so the main tank is always full now reducing water woe's.darkspr1te

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 08:15:59 am
content: For commercial products ELTAKO will surely have something for you, but these devices are ment to be setup once and then run forever.https://www.eltako.com/de/catalog/products/865/fsu14Maybe your best option would be a Raspberry Pi in an DIN-Rail case powered by an DIN-Rail power supply and a relay driver connected to one GPIO.https://www.berrybase.de/hutschienengehaeuse-fuer-raspberry-pi-5

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 09:04:26 am
content: Somehow, I think a software-based DIY solution is overkill for this application.I'd prefer something ready-made for rail mounting.But I don't need a watch, I need something like a timer that gives me an impulse from the start for a duration of 1-10 hours.Or a DIY solution with a count-up/down IC and an oscillator.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 09:18:24 am
content: Then this?https://www.eltako.com/de/catalog/products/1773/mfz12dx-230v

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 09:25:50 am
content: Quote from: fchk on September 13, 2025, 09:18:24 amThis looks better, but in my opinion it is not suitable for changing the time setting often (you have to use a screwdriver).Maybe something similar to this:www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B0DDG8QHLR/134-8688987-1091940Problem: I did not find a user manual...

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 11:58:12 am
content: sounds a job for the old "roll back" timers.big knob on the front you could twist by hand to set the time,not a menu in sight, something like these offerings from omronhttps://industrial.omron.co.uk/en/products/h3crmaybe.

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 12:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on September 13, 2025, 11:58:12 amYes, not bad...

author: gdr771
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2025, 10:50:00 pm
content: Omron, Idec, Finder, Crouzet, Rockwell, Selec, Carlo Gavazzi, Schneider, Weidmuller, and several others all make multi-function or one-shot or off-delay timers that would do the job.I second themadhippy's suggestion for Omron's H3CR series, which is pretty unique with the nice big dial on the front. Most others are a tiny knob or require a screwdriver.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 08:08:43 am
content: Surely you can set the charge limit in the car (?) and/or in the "charger".Having to dick around with a timer, manually calculating chargetime and tweaking a timer sounds like a kludge.If Ihad todo it that way I'd probably try to find a good old mechanical timer (think old microwave oven) and have it control the 3-phase contactor. Quick and easy to set. Perhaps that's what themadhippy meant with "roll back".

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 09:03:25 am
content: Quote from: H.O on September 14, 2025, 08:08:43 amNo, you cannot select anything in the car and only the current on the charging cable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 11:20:12 am
content: Quote from: gdr771 on September 13, 2025, 10:50:00 pmFinder series 88 is basically the same.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 11:20:46 am
content: Quote from: Greybeard on September 14, 2025, 09:03:25 amCan’t you get a better charging cable with more advanced features?

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 12:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 14, 2025, 11:20:46 amThe cable I got with the car cost about 700-800 Euro, so a better one won't come for "peanuts"...

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 01:21:41 pm
content: If you like Omron's H3R, what about the H3-CA? Small LCD display on the front and once triggered, it shows the elapsed time as bargraph. Depending on model one can have times between millisecond and weeks.Disadvantage of all automation relays is, they need their own socket. At Omron this looks till today like an antique tube socket.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 02:00:23 pm
content: Quoteindustry standard "octal base" even though they also come in 11 pin.Makes changing out a part simple so saves down time ,,and your not tied to 1 manufacturer when your 50 year old machine packs up due to a knackered relayAnother make to add to the list (if youve deep pockets) is dold ,for examplehttps://www.dold.com/en/products/relay-modules/timers/timers-off-delayed/ec-7666?c=133

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 02:09:04 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on September 13, 2025, 11:58:12 amI found a similar timer on Amazon that appears to be an Omron clone (H3BA). What's the difference to your mentioned H3CR?www.amazon.de/Fictory-Multifunktionales-Zeitrelais-8-poliger-Timer/dp/B0FJD73G9QI'm not sure if this particular type offers the functionality I need (a start pulse starts the relay for the set time, after which it switches back off).What I don't understand:What triggers the output pulse on the far left (red marking)?Is it applying the operating voltage while the trigger is already present?That wouldn't be relevant for my application, since the operating voltage is always present.And what does thet-afurther to the right mean (also marked in red)?Does that just mean that something happens before the time t expires?So you can reset the relay output with the reset input. OK.Or if the trigger occurs again within the time t, the time is extended by t (I don't want that to prevent incorrect operation; I think it can be prevented with appropriate wiring).I also found a datasheet for the Omron H3Bx-N...https://docs.rs-online.com/7835/0900766b813990b3.pdf... which seems rather confusing to me.So, which Omron relay would be the right one?(PS: Is there a way to hide long links like the Amazon one above?)[-> solved]Quote from: themadhippy on September 14, 2025, 02:00:23 pmNice one, but I can't afford to spend 200-300 bucks just on a timer relay...

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 03:06:51 pm
content: Quoteignore the stop button, unless you need one.Pushing the start button powers the timer coil which closes the contact on the timer and maintains power to the coil even with the start switch released ,once the times up the contacts will open releasing the coil. Use a second set of contacts on the timer to control the main contactor.The start switch could be another relay with its coil powered from the start pulse instead of a physical switch

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 04:18:44 pm
content: QuoteNormally you can remove all symbols behind the questionmark in an URL. Won't affect the correct delivery of the desired website and as far as i know a lot of them representing referrer and probably session-ID's

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 05:04:56 pm
content: Quote from: Greybeard on September 14, 2025, 02:09:04 pmThe Power, Start, and Reset lines areinputs.The thing you marked in red is the Start signal, so it’syour inputto start a cycle, not an output!Youtrigger it.Quote from: Greybeard on September 14, 2025, 02:09:04 pmLiterally look at the notes at the top of that section of the datasheet.

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2025, 05:18:03 pm
content: Then I understood correctly so far.I think I have to take the 11-pin version:https://www.amazon.de/Walfront-Verz%C3%B6gerung-Timer-Relais-Zeitrelais-Sekunden-Steuer-Timer-Relais/dp/B0FPDXVNK4?Datasheet:https://docs.rs-online.com/36ca/0900766b815c01c9.pdfCan I use this product for switching a conventional 3-phase 16Arelaycontactor (the datasheet of the Omron timer states: resistive load), or do I have to use a 3-phase solid staterelaycontactor?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 02:10:08 pm
content: Quote from: Greybeard on September 14, 2025, 05:18:03 pmThe Amazon listing is for some no-name clone. You cannot use the Omron datasheet for it and expect it to mean anything!Who knows what specific configuration the no-name one is.If you want something that's usually more affordable than Omron, look at Finder.As for the relay: what you want is acontactor(DE: Schütz), not a relay (DE: Relais). Note that the timer itself will almost certainly have relays as its output, not a control voltage for your contactor. So you'll need to switch an external voltage to energize the contactor. (For example, using 230V AC and a contactor with 230V coil.)

author: Uunoctium
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 04:33:22 pm
content: Since the OP is resident in Germany it is worth, that he takes a look at "Kleinanzeigen". Search string: "Omron Zeitrelais"eg H3CR-A at 8€ ea, new

author: Greybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2025, 09:09:19 pm
content: Thank you for the "Kleinanzeigen" hint.These are the 8-pin-version.This is my circuit: