Curious Cables - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 06:44:28 am
content: I thought it was going to be a good aussie piss-take after the first smirk, but there was no punch line. He's serious.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 06:56:23 am
content: Oh yes, he is deadly serious. Serious about taking money off fools who don't know any better. What irks me the most is people who take actual real terms such as "sound stage" and bastardise them to mean absolutely nothing.This reminds me of a conversation on radio 2GB (talkback radio) not long ago. They were discussing the legal implications of people who give "spiritual" advice, tarot readers, etc... etc... basically, it came down to the fact that such bullshit has not (yet) been tested in court. In a nutshell, if the person giving the advice truly believes whatever to be true as opposed to obtaining a benefit by deception, then it's lawful, regardless of the actual outcome. How do you disprove it? It's not illegal to be a nutcase or believe in Hocus Pocus.Same goes for this bloke... if he truly believes he can hear a difference (whether it actually exists or not is beside the point), is he acting in a fraudulent manner? According to the law, no. Even if he was bullshitting everyone (which anyone with half a brain will realise), how do you prove it beyond a balance of probabilities?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 06:58:29 am
content: Needs debunking Dave.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 06:59:47 am
content: Just in case nobody was aware those curious cables are only for serious suckers, he could be the lead singer in a band if he wanted with those sleight of hand movements, Midnight Snake Oil perhaps.A drivel search reveals that it's no wonder they are able to offer free return shipping if the customer isn't satisfied, they can easily afford to at the prices they are asking for these things, just ridiculous.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 07:16:41 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 08, 2016, 06:58:29 amI want to. But I don't want to give these scammers money, or any publicity at all. Theywillquote mine any review/debunking.And of course they will simply argue "but you have tolistento it

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 07:26:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 08, 2016, 07:16:41 amHave you done a vid on Audiofoolery ?Surely you've gotsomeequipment to measure and prove theirclaimedBS is bogus.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 07:40:35 am
content: There is a real problem here. I mean, sure, the claims that the _cables_ themselves can make the sound better is bogus and can be proven with double-blind testing. But the problem is this: the _claim itself_ and the cost of the cables can make the user _believe_ and swear up and down that the sound is improved when they know that the special cables are in use! So, subjectively, they "work", even though they don't work by the mechanism that the sellers claim and no objective measurement can show a difference. If you say something sounds better to you than before, who am I to argue with that?Sure, we would say it's entirely a placebo effect, and we'd be right. And the effect would probably go away, or not be so strong, if the cables were as cheaply priced as "ordinary cables". So the high cost is part of the _actual_ mechanism by which they "work". Ditto the wordgames that claim "headroom" or "sound stage" or other enhancements. If you didn't have those kinds of phrases showing up in the testimonial "evidence", your placebo effect would be reduced.So... in a sense, the cables do work! Buy a set and hear for yourself! (just kidding......)

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:05:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 08, 2016, 07:16:41 amOf course such scammers will say that. A subjective listening 'test' is the only way they could have any hope of influencing the opinion of the listener ... because that's all that the 'test' would be able to show.I also support Dave in leaving this alone. He's never going to get an indisputable result - because the very basis of the scammer's claims lie outside objective assessment. It's a no win situation.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:08:02 am
content: I just realised .... I don't use any USB cables when I listen to audio off my computer.Does that mean I'm already getting superior sound - or do I have to find a way of running the data stream through one of these curious cables?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:15:37 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 08, 2016, 07:26:18 amFamously. A very old rant.I'm first hit on youtube for audiophool.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:17:14 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 08, 2016, 07:26:18 amYou can't debunk audiophoolery. The placebo effect is real.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:24:49 am
content: Don't you know, it's because the electromagnetic dielectric quantum field alignment of the cable atomic nuclei result in a smoothed flow of electrons and synchronization of the heterodyne asyncotropic Flux! Duh! It's obvious to any 5 year old!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:38:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 08, 2016, 08:17:14 amJust so.Even "worse": often the placebo works even when the recipient is told it is a placebo.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 09:13:25 am
content: I bet if you advertised a suitably wanky looking cable ( maybe a range at different price points) , but made no specific claims whatsoever about it, and offered a money-back guarantee, you'd still sell some.I know of someone taking a similarly cynical approach to woo-woo gadgets, making no claims at all, only including a couple of popular buzzwords, selling at an affordable price, and offering money back if not satisfied. He's sold thousands and not had a single return.Sometimes makes you feel like you're in the wrong business....

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 09:15:31 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 08, 2016, 09:13:25 amYep, unfortunately my conscience keeps getting in the way

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 09:20:29 am
content: I always like how the words, quest, challenge, extensive research, development and I couldn't listen all the way through to see if the ultimate 'quantum' was in there!

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 09:26:36 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 08, 2016, 08:17:14 amMore like Choice-supportive bias, Confirmation bias, Bandwagon effect, Framing effect, Illusory truth effect, Irrational escalation, Subjective validation, Authority bias (and more.)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biasesBut that Wiki list has a problem, in that it's missing the Fricken Moron effect, which is the one most applicable to anyone thinking a USB cable is going to make any difference to an audio stream.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 11:15:30 am
content: Something that might be an interesting challenge - see if it's possible to make a USB cable that sounds audiblyworsewhile still basically reliably working.

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 01:53:13 pm
content: Easy, just use a _reverse_ placebo effect:Explain in detail which inferior materials you used and how unskilled your laborers are.Tell how you went on an afternoon long quest to pick the cheapest parts from some overseas supplier's website.Make it look like any other cable with an ordinary, boring grey plastic sleeve.Put a very low price on it.And have it presented by an uncharismatic engineer who will use a lot of proper technical terms instead of words that appeal to the audiophile user.Bluntly state to the listener that he is not capable of making any distinction in the first place.Present testimonials stating how horrible the cable sounded.No technical design needed.Regarding these guys being fraudsters, has anyone tested their claims about special alloys and such?As USB can transfer data both ways, wouldn't these be bi-curious cables?

author: rfbroadband
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 05:02:08 pm
content: unbelievable...maybe one should ask him if these cables were especially tuned towards USB device classes 0x01, 0x10 and 0xeh, but should under no circumstances be used for USB device class 0x3h etc

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 05:58:11 pm
content: I thought this kind of things only happen in China (especially in Hong Kong and Guangdong province ).

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 07:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 08, 2016, 08:17:14 amI couldn't agree more. I tended to ignore most of it, as usually it's actually harmless (if someone wants to use 0 AWG wires covered by some ultra-tarot-quantum cloth to increase their speakers bass response, who cares? It's their money and copper deposit) but I engaged once or twice in discussion on one of newest trends - audiophile grade fuses. Using expensive fuses that don't actually have any serious certification is one thing - as long as wire has semi-right diameter and material it will do its job, but there are people that bridge fuses in their amplifiers to get even more clearer (or whatever fairytale term) sound. Fire hazard isn't an issue that is worth considering in golden-eared people community and discussion about it ends with "if you can't hear the difference then shut up, it's worth it".

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:24:36 pm
content: i'm concerned that he doesn't offer* a diclaimer for North/South hemisphere operation.The winding, twist of the conductors will obviously be affected by the Earth's magnetic field...* does he?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 01:32:46 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 08, 2016, 11:15:30 amInteresting, because that's 'falsifiability' - a cornerstone of the scientific method. If you can't make it sound worse with a USB cable then you can't make it sound better with one.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 02:25:57 am
content: I have one idea Dave could make a video on.Produce a DIY guide on how to make these cloth covered fancy looking cables.Perhaps the 1% of audiophools who only buy things for looks might realise how easy they are to make and question the insane pricesI did find this onehttp://www.instructables.com/id/Cloth-Covered-Banana-Cables/

author: made2hack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 06:29:25 am
content: I've already reviewed a high-end Audio Cables, and I can unequivocally state that they DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!http://youtu.be/DeBJVh4z99k

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 04:27:43 pm
content: What scares me most is that they are seruous about it.

author: Nozzer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 05:28:54 pm
content: A big problem is that Hifi Magazines tell readers that they need to spend a third of their hifi equipment budget on cables, rather than spending it on buying better quality equipment. I've experimented with my Cyrus hifi separates and The connection between my turntable. The tonearm I bought from SME (which is very easy to set up, unlike unipivot tonearms like the Hadcock!!!) came with an inexpensive cable to connect it to the pre-preamplifier. I compared it with another, more expensive cable I hadand there is no discernible difference in the sound! When I first bought my hifi I knew no better so spent hundreds of Pounds on unnecessary, overpriced, overhyped, but very prettylooking cables. I still use them only because I bought them over 20 years ago and they work just fine.I think the last time before that I was so naive and taken in by hype was when I enlisted as a Junior aged 16. Not even old enough to shave!Ex-Sucker

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 06:05:20 pm
content: Ah the irony, look what comes up on the right hand side on Autoplay

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 09:22:45 pm
content: Invite the guy to come to the EEVBlog lab. You can measure, characterize and compare various cables (scientifically) together and at the end, if he still claims his cables are "better" then put him thru a blind test and see if he can pick out his cable. Let him bring his own audio system if he wants to.He won't accept the invititation of course but it'll be interesting to hear his excuse.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 12:38:46 am
content: Quote from: TheBay on November 09, 2016, 06:05:20 pmThat's not irony .... that'spoetry!

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 08:01:14 am
content: I didn't noticed it.