what deveploment fpga - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 11:23:17 pm
content: What fpga development board to choose that does not exceed $ 40, and is quite powerful.?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2020, 11:59:17 pm
content: That's all relative, what sort of project do you have in mind? What onboard peripherals do you need? $40 is pretty much going to limit you to the various hobbyist oriented dev boards out of China. Last I checked there are some pretty decent Spartan6 and CycloneIV boards that are within your price range. The programming cable for Xilinx parts is much more expensive than the Altera cables, clones of both are widely available and work fine.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 12:22:56 am
content: mine is arduino and small electronic projects, but I'm curious to understand or learn the basics of fpga, that's why I set that cost limit.what is your opinion about thishttps://es.aliexpress.com/item/32853559714.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2ac569bdDeScz1&algo_pvid=63efb771-65f6-4d6a-a896-4c4192bdcdf1&algo_expid=63efb771-65f6-4d6a-a896-4c4192bdcdf1-43&btsid=0ab6f81615838867979901248e13fc&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 01:44:53 am
content: That's probably fine, looks like maybe it has the programming hardware built in? I didn't look too closely to see what that other QFP is.If you just want to dip your toes in, I like the EP2C5T144C8 mini boards that are only about $12-$15 plus a few dollars for an Altera USB programming cable. I like Quartus a bit better than ISE or Vivado in many ways but it's a bit of a toss up. FPGA is a *big* step up from arduino and a completely different paradigm, it is digital hardware design masquerading as programming. The cheap CycloneII I mentioned is old, slow and tiny by modern standards but you can still fit an entire functional 8 bit computer in it that runs several times faster than a real Z80/6502/etc.The nice thing about HDL is it is not too hard to make it hardware agnostic. Much of the code that works on one FPGA will work on another with only slight modifications.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 02:20:24 am
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on March 10, 2020, 11:23:17 pmThere are plenty of small FPGA boards under or around $40 that you don't need to order from China:https://tinyfpga.com/https://www.crowdsupply.com/tinyfpga/tinyfpga-bxThe BX is large enough to implement things such as RISC-V (or other) CPU cores on.https://www.crowdsupply.com/1bitsquared/icebreaker-fpgahttps://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/fomu

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 12:24:18 pm
content: That's probably fine, looks like maybe it has the programming hardware built in? I didn't look too closely to see what that other QFP is.what is necessary is that one connects it and can already be used, like the arduino one, etc. After one buys the shield or accessories, I don't understand the QFP?

author: oPossum
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 01:05:48 pm
content: QFP is Quad Flat Pack. Looks like it is a MEGA32U4.Some of these are within your budget:https://qmtechchina.aliexpress.com/store/4486047?spm=a2g0o.store_home.1000001.12.7c21590bU2grjx

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 01:15:08 pm
content: Slightly out of your price range but worth a look:https://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=165&No=593

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 01:17:55 pm
content: OHO Electronik GODIL50_XC3S500E DIL FPGA module is available from Trenz Electronic for about 43 Euro

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 02:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on March 11, 2020, 01:15:08 pmI will see what it is

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2020, 03:40:09 pm
content: I have a couple of Lattice Ice Sticks, they cost around $25https://www.latticesemi.com/icestickI was following various tutorials at VHDLwhiz.com and set my toolchain up as recommended:Visual Code with the VHDL add-on for the editor. This is a very nice editor.ModelSim Student Edition for the simulatorLattice iCEcube2 for the synthesizerLattice Diamond for the device programmerFour separate programs to do what should be done in a single program, like Xilinx Vivado. I don't know if this was the best, or only, setup but it's what was recommended.Even if the toolchain is a little ugly, the device works well and is well documented. It seems to me to be a bit limited on IO but for a starter board, why not?I would recommend starting with VHDLwhiz's "FPGA and VHDL Fast-Track" tutorial (<$20) if, for no other reason, to get help setting up the toolchain. It truly is a PITA.https://academy.vhdlwhiz.com/fast-track

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 05:54:50 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 11, 2020, 01:44:53 amOr buy similar, but Cyclone IV (EP4CE6) based, board with JTAG dongle just for $22 (without shipping):https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32709028421.htmlAnd QMTech sells this board (EP4CE15 plus some peripheral bells and whistles) just for $27:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33007471265.html

author: ggchab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 08:26:42 am
content: You might find some interest in this video:"SDG #093 Beginners FPGA Clock Implementation in VHDL"

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 03:44:41 pm
content: Will this model plate  https://en.aliexpress.com/item/4000323573953.html [/ url] work on Intel Quartus 18, or should other software be used?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 03:53:52 pm
content: Just my 0.02$: don't buy of Ali, especially not when you're just starting out. An experienced designer will be able to figure out soon enough if he's doing something wrong or if the HW is fuxored. But in case it doesn't work you may be chasing your own tail for weeks without ever knowing it was a bad chip, bad design or just dead board you got of ali.A tinyfpga is 'known good' and cheap, or you can even get an official Lattice icestick for 25$ (all mentioned above) so the incentive to buy something of Ali is limited.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 04:28:12 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on March 12, 2020, 03:44:41 pmThis board will not work with any version of Quartus. Because Zynq is made by Xilinx, so you must use theirVivado toolwith their JTAG dongle (Chinese clonescosts about $20).P.S. There is documentation and examples for this board:https://github.com/ChinaQMTECH/ZYNQ_STARTER_KIT

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 04:39:50 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on March 12, 2020, 03:53:52 pmI probably have about 20 random Chinese dev boards, I don't recall ever having a problem with any of them. That seems to be a product they have pretty much nailed. YMMV though.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 04:47:27 pm
content: LCMXO3LF-6900C-S-EVN

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 05:14:17 pm
content: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813061054.htmlI'd say pretty decent board, with even available examples and a quick start guide, which actually shows useful stuff in understandable english language.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 05:31:34 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on March 12, 2020, 05:14:17 pmthanks, this also seems to be a good board to start. And Vivado Design Suite vs Quartus pro 18?

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 06:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on March 12, 2020, 05:31:34 pmFor Altera (now Intel) FPGAs (Cyclone) useQuartus(just Quartus. Pro edition a)paid only b)don't support Cyclone IV family).For new Xilinx FPGAs (Artix 7, Zynq, Spartan 7) - Vivado.For older Xilinx FPGAs (Spartan 6) -ISE.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 06:30:37 pm
content: Jeez...Vivado/ISE is ONLY for XILINX devices, where Quartus is ONLY for ALTERA devices.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 06:52:32 pm
content: Completely off the rails...At the very early stages of learning, is an FPGA board even necessary? Funny thing: I have never done any simulation because when I started, the simulator for Xilinx ISE wasn't free. I never learned how...Now that ModelSim Student Edition is free, I wonder if ModelSim plus an editor of choice (Visual Code?) wouldn't be sufficient. Sure, there is the problem of creating the first HDL project plus the additional code for a test bench but it saves money on relatively worthless hardware. Once the initial learning projects are done, the low end hardware simply won't be adequate or, in some cases, even supported with the latest tools (Xilinx Spartan 6 requires the no-longer-supported ISE, for example)For dipping a toe in the water of logic design, I wonder if just simulation wouldn't be adequate.Other tools, like Vivado, have a built in simulator so they are very much a complete environment.As I said, completely off the rails...https://www.nandland.com/goboard/simulation-introduction-led-blink.html

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 08:04:59 pm
content: rstofer, the truth is that when I started with arduino I used proteus to simulate, then I bought u mega2560, arduino uno, DUE, esp32. I think I should do the same with Vivado Design Suite, test if I would like to introduce myself in fpga or leave it aside, that way I would not leave a fpga plate in the memory drawer.in spanishrstofer, la verdad que cuando empeze con arduino usaba proteus para simular, luego compre u mega2560, arduino uno, DUE, esp32. Creo que deberia hacer lo mismo con Vivado Design Suite, probar si me gustaria intruducirme en fpga o dejarlo de lado, de esa manera no dejaria una placa fpga en el cajon de los recuerdos.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 08:53:57 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on March 12, 2020, 08:04:59 pmI don't have a lot of experience with simulation but I did a little project the other day using Vivado and, while Vivado is a LOT slower than ModelSim, it does a nice job. Vivado is Xilinx's answer to development, it's free and it works very well. I had a transition hill to climb from ISE and Vivado is a LOT slower than ISE (which caused me to buy/build a very high end PC) but, in the end, it has turned out well. The thing is, it doesn't matter what I think about Vivado because the newer, and more capable, chips will only work with Vivado and the older chips will only work with ISE. I have more older boards than newer but I tend to leave them in the drawer. Mostly, I use the Digilent Nexys 4 DDR board now named Nexys A7. I like it because it has a LOT of gadgets. But it's pricey...https://store.digilentinc.com/nexys-a7-fpga-trainer-board-recommended-for-ece-curriculum/I have attached a ZIP file of my simple Vivado simulation project. You SHOULD be able to unzip it somewhere and have Vivado open the Vtest7.xpr file. Then run the simulation and you should get a waveform display. I am far from competent with simulation, I hope it works out for you.This is the end result of the <$20 tutorial at VHDLwhiz.com that I linked earlier.

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 09:11:14 pm
content: Thanks rstofer for the information, I am going to download the file and try it out, with respect to the plate, u $ s267, I'm sure I would have fun.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 10:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on March 12, 2020, 05:14:17 pmSilkscreened on the board: "Nixie Tube", with IO pin numbers?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2020, 10:54:44 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on March 12, 2020, 09:11:14 pmI started playing with FPGAs after I retired about 16 years ago. Simulation wasn't much of an option so I had to go straight to synthesis. I would have anyway, simulation isn't hardware...One thing I quickly discovered is that a multitude of switches, buttons, LEDs and 7 segment displays come in handy. I could create a single step clock, breakpoints, a full speed clock and control these debugging tools from the gadgets. Over time I just moved up with the changes in chips. I started with the Spartan II (Nice! 5V Interface), a couple of iterations of the Spartan 3 and now to the Artix 7. I still think gadgets are handy.I do understand that most of Digilent's boards are pricey but I don't care! If I am having fun, that's all that matters.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2020, 07:26:33 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on March 12, 2020, 10:28:34 pmFancy Chinese name for seven segments displays.P.S. Board developer(s) have amachine translatedsomewhat strange relationships with English language. Remind the unforgettable Shoarrian fox user manual: "Dynamic display method is, according to a certain frequency in turn to each digital tube COM terminal send low level. At the same time send the corresponding data to each paragraph"