Extruding, molding, 3D printing, etc of enclosures - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 05:50:23 pm
content: Hello,I would normally machine an enclosure for a prototype product I am designing but started thinking that it might be easier to just 3D print it first and later mold or extrude it. I'm assuming there are services that will take my STL, STP, etc output and 3D print it. Has anyone used such a service and if so, how did it work out and do you have a recommendation?My product will ultimately need to be in metal; either formed, molded or machined from aluminum billet (unlikely for mass production). I can design it using CATIA, the much bigger brother of Solidworks and it outputs just about any code needed.ThanksJerry

author: tusior
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 08:43:46 pm
content: Hi,i think 3d printing of first rev of designs are very convenient, I have seen that approach in many companies. It pays off especially if your enclosures have complex shape and are not too big. Quality is not always good enough to provide them to customer, but still you can be sure that everything fits before machining.I used to outsource 3d printing, but them I found that much easier is to have own 3d printer (they are so cheap now), setting up machine takes only about 15 minutes and you can save money and time on shipping and discussions with outsource company.Best RegardsPiotr

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 08:55:01 pm
content: I was going to suggest buy a printer since cost is manageable, but that might depend on the enclosure requirements.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 09:10:44 pm
content: If you want another hobby, buy a 3D printer.If you want a 3D printed part, pay a service to make them.(I say this as a reasonably experienced 3D printer owner and hobbyist. I make a small volume device [20-30 per year] and 3D print the cases for them. It's a right pain in the ass and by far the least profitable part of the entire process, even after I've gotten the 3D design entirely dialed in.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 12:34:57 am
content: Do not buy a 3D printer yet, get the part first from a service and then determine at that point if you think you want one.Dirty PCBs has an SLA service for $1/g:http://dirtypcbs.com/store/print3dwhich I've used and was happy with.Also available (probably faster if its local):https://www.3dhubs.com/3d-printingI tried uploading a small part to 3d hubs, price is $10 for one week lead-time (PLA, 0.2mm), quite reasonable if the print quality is decent.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 03:11:52 am
content: Part of the answer to this depends on how sure you are of your designs. If you own your own printer you can get one or two iterations per day to correct problems. Going outside to a 3D print house will always be slower, sometimes by large factors.My experience so far is that 3D printing is a skill or art, not equivalent to loading paper in your dot matrix or laser and sending a file. The outside house will take care of all of the tweaks required to make a decent print. As your experience increases you will start getting good prints first try, but that is likely to be after a significant time investment.Be sure to pick your production method and include it in your printed design process. Not much point to optimizing a printed enclosure and then starting to modify it for extrusion or molding. Also recognize that your design can have features that make it easier to print. The ones I am aware of to date relate to avoiding overhanging steps (90 degree overhangs) and wall sections that are a small multiple of the selected skin thickness.

author: Deku Tree
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:52:51 am
content: 3D printers have come a long way. I purchased an Anycubic i3 Mega and it took 15 minutes to set up. I leveled the bed by following the instructions, and my first print came out perfect. I haven't had a single failed print for over 3 months of use and 4 rolls of filament. I was worried that it might turn into something that was less of a tool and more of a project itself, but it's been nothing but easy to use and incredibly convenient.I guess my point is that buying a printer these days isn't the time investment it used to be. If you just want to use it and not think too much about it, now's the time to get into 3D printing. I got mine for the same purpose; making enclosures and other useful items.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:00:20 am
content: Plenty of services out there will do you a 3D print including in metal or a bunch of other high strength alternates if you want to spend the $$.Given the fairly low entry price and I gather by your handle you have more than a little CNC experience wouldn't you buy one? Cetus 2 or 3 for PLA could sit on the corner of your desk or on top of a filing cabinet. Ender 3 or Pro will do you a larger volume and can handle PETG, PLA and even ABS depending on the bed being glass.The other question is if you want a service recommendation where on the face of this fairly large globe are you?

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 07:02:15 am
content: I like 3d hubs. Haven't done much with them but the website is great.

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 07:52:34 am
content: I'm in San Francisco. I have two CNC mills, lathes, etc. I also have a small CNC zero backlash mill that would only need a print head and heated table, if they are still used, and I could do my own parts. I'm really looking for a service recommendation I guess. I found one place where you upload the file and they send a quote so I'll try them out.On the other hand I should buy the parts to make my small mill a printer or even just buy a complete unit. The problem even with 3D CAD at the level it is, and CATIA assemblies are as good as they get, is that you really dont know until you cut it if all things will fit. Bolt holes, spacers, standoffs, display cutouts. etc. So having the printer will probably pay for itself. Even after simulating Gcode, I've had my large mill snap 3/4" end mills right off on the vise during a crash with the vise fully simulated as well. But a printer wouldn't help there.I've been selling enterprise CAD CAM systems and/or running my own CNC "out of control hobby" for 30yrs or so and maybe it is time to get something new for prototyping.Thanks,Jerry

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 08:09:09 am
content: I have been enjoying the playing over the last 6 months. There is a few design challenges in 3D printing but also some advantages over conventional machining. Fusion 360 and Sli3er are doing the job for me so far in software.Given the cost of a 'reasonable' printer like the couple I put above start with a complete unit then hack it is a better option in terms of time spent to $ saved.But if you only want to play skip the heated bed initially grab a complete direct drive extruder (not bowden tube) and hot end combo strap it onto a CNC frame then use PLA on a sheet of very clean Glass. It would be the simplest hardware solution for a conversion. Needs Stepper drive, Temperature sensor input and a Fan and Heater Cartridge output. If you needed to add a control board to the BOM skip it and buy a complete printer.Check out SLS Printing if you want metal prototypes.These Guys look worth a visit at least for youhttps://studiofathom.com/additive-manufacturing/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 11:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: cncjerry on November 30, 2018, 07:52:34 amSomehow you missed the two links I recommended, that will give a price immediately based on the model?BTW converting a CNC mill to a 3D printer is a fools errand, you might save some money in the short term but unless it has linear rails and belts it will be slow and cause accelerated wear.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 12:33:27 am
content: Only one issue dealing with 3DHubs you are really not dealing with their manufacturing in most cases. They claim 200+ offsite sub contract manufacturing points at undisclosed and uncontactable locations around the world. Much as their standards by all accounts are very good I wouldn't be a fan of this arrangement as dealing secondhand with the manufacturer in case of an issue would be a major PITA.I hadn't seen dirtypcb's offering printing but a few weeks delay may be an issue for some jobs.Speed on small 6 or 8mm Ball or Lead screws would more than cope with the sub 100mm/sec requirements of 3D printing in particular where it was built for router duty the backlash wouldn't be an issue either. The debate of belt over screw compared to a rack is much bigger than here requires. Based on his experience and gear available tinkering and playing are an option for him. Like you however buying one is the sensible option but we humans are not always sensible

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 02:09:00 am
content: Total overkill in the CNC departmenthttps://youtu.be/NEyL6cVWlo4

author: Styno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 07:34:33 am
content: Regarding 3D hubs: I had the enclosure made in batches of ten on two occasions. The first batch was fine and needed little rework, the second was of a much lower quality. The design has a hollow stud for a 2.2mm screw, on the second batch this was just an irregular blob of plastic.I guess that’s the risk of sub-subcontracting and i’ll Look for an alternative with more repeatable results.