Beginner desolder complete mess :( - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 02:54:59 pm
content: Not sure if to put here on the repair section, but as I'm a beginner.....Probably the worst desoldering disaster ever.Trying to replace HDMI port on Playstation 4.Unfortunately I've managed to completely screwup the pads (taken a pic the best I can through my miscroscope).Should have started on something less important for my first actual repairAm I screwed? Every pad is lifted (floating around) but still connected, 3 pads are missing, I'm hoping they are not used.Any advice please (yes I know I seriously screwed up and it's a right mess)Many thanks

author: ratatax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 03:58:34 pm
content: I would remove completely any damaged pads, solder the new connector to the remaining pads, then gently scratch the traces going to the removed pads to expose copper and solder thin wires directly from the connector pins to the traces.What's your soldering iron ? You need it regulated under 400°C and good flux to have any chances to make a decent job

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 04:07:46 pm
content: Too hot! Not enough flux.If you are in a hole... stop digging!Looks repairable since the majority of pins still are present... but maybe it's reached the point where it might be worth paying someone who does these regularly.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 05:08:45 pm
content: ThanksI've got a Hakko FX888D.I've got TOPNIK TK83 flux, I put a fair amount on, but it's a liquid flux rather than the gel youtube vids seem to use.I have enamelled wire. have seen a couple of youtube vids on this exact problem, so will give it a go and see how I go.Where I went wrong was with the reverse side where the lugs of the case are soldered to the board. Even putting flux, leaded solder and using a larger tip, I really really struggled to get it to melt, and stupidly pressed down on one of the lugs, pushing the pads off the other side.I'm not bad at soldering, but I really really struggle with desoldering at the moment. I can use my hot air gun and remove and replace surface components fine, it's always the big solder joints that I struggle to desolder

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 05:35:02 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 12, 2020, 05:08:45 pmwill make things harder to put together esp small pitch like that. i will use non enamelled wire strand stripped from normal wire and make sure no short to adjacent trace at finishing job.as others said, that thing is still repairable since it has few pads still intact, dont waste those! if you dont want fancy task later on such as dangling hdmi wires out of the pcb. and since some lifted pads can also acted as mechanical retainer/holder for HDMI port, in the end you may want to glue the connector to pcb using strong glue or something to compensate for the loss of mechanical strength. ymmv.ps: i can see few left bottom most pads will be much harder work to retrace.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 05:37:14 pm
content: It's important not to use anyforcewhen soldering or desoldering components. There's a great temptation to treat the soldering tool as a weapon and just lean on it, but that never works and causes disasters like yours. For connectors with SMD on one side and through-hole lugs, you should probably use wick on the lugs first and then take the connector off with hot air. This frequently cooks the connector, but most are cheap to begin with.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 06:01:16 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 12, 2020, 05:08:45 pmIf you don't need the component again you can destructively divide and conquer on it chop it into smaller pieces as you go, but if there is a big ground plane.... this can be challenging. Your next one will probably be better.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 06:08:51 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on April 12, 2020, 06:01:16 pmthis is one of very reason i stick with one hung low non temperature controlled iron (and HAKKO Presto ready as spare) with one boost button push. although i keep my temperature controlled iron ready when i need fast startup on small components.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 08:38:37 pm
content: Quote from: ratatax on April 12, 2020, 03:58:34 pmI keep a roll of 30ga wire wrap wire around for precisely these situations. Takes a steady hand but success rate is close to 100% even if all you have left are traces (no pads).If the connector relies on its soldered connections for mechanical strain relief to the PCB, you might also consider a touch of something to mechanically reinforce it to the board. UV curable superglue is handy for this and can be obtained in convenient little squeeze-to-dispense "pens" that incorporate a UV LED. Cures in seconds, and is non-conductive when cured.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 09:34:55 pm
content: Sorry that this happened to you, but I'm sure you can fix it.I endorse the "divide & conquer" philosophy also, even for simple things like TO-92 transistors but especially for connectors.I've replaced USB connectors by using a Dremel (or other brand) tool with a cutoff disc.Once you've had it chopped all up, the individual pins fall off with just a touch of the soldering iron.If you've chopped the shell up you only need to unsolder the remnant of one side at a time.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 10:18:54 pm
content: There is no fuc*ing way to desolder PS4 HDMI connector without hot air. Even with hot air it is a struggle...Trust me, I do this for a living and have replaced at least 50 connectors so far.You need to apply flux to all pins and heat bottom side of the PCB under the connector. Then just lift it when solder melts. Don't heat from the top or you will fry the surrounding components (depending of exact PS4 model, electrolytic capacitor for sure).Broken pads can be fixed, but you need microscope, steady hand and fine tip soldering iron.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2020, 10:21:29 pm
content: Btw. you need all pads connected, it will NOT work if some signal is missing.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 12:26:55 am
content: Quote from: flolic on April 12, 2020, 10:18:54 pmhave you tried low melt solder on the pins? you should have plenty of time desoldering one of the bottom side leg and lift up from that side before the low melt solder solidified again, preheating the leg and pcb with iron first will help quicken the later process. once its lifted from one side, the only thing connected is the other leg. but forget it if you are using temp controlled iron on that kind of ground plane.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 12:45:39 am
content: No, never tried low melting temperature solder. Hot air works ok, just needs some time to heat up the board.The thing is, those PS4 boards suck heat so good that it is general PITA when you have to unsolder or solder something.I have JBC soldering station and even when I am using largest tip that I have it is very hard to solder mounting pins of that connector without preheat. And I am using wide blade type tip that can reach both sides of connector at the same time.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 01:04:50 am
content: yup thats the problem. i remember repairing a graphic card just to remove few through hole electrolytic capacitors. i ended up putting them all in a oven, local heating with hot air took agessome boards are just too stubborn.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 09:32:13 am
content: I have worked on all kind of (computer) hardware, PS3 and PS4 PCB's are by a magnitude harder to work on than anything else.I guess they are designed that way with heavy ground layers to help spread and dissipate heat.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 09:45:23 am
content: Thanks allI put high temp tape over the surface mount caps/resistors near the top of the HDMI port. But I did all the heat from the bottom. I tried both my hot air gun and soldering station, it didn't seem to want to melt. Even had the hot air gun so hot (which probably helped cause this problem) that bringing my leaded solder within about 3 inches of the hot air, it instantly melted. I reverted to my soldering iron to get a mix of leaded solder on the joints, but no matter how high I set temp, the best the joint got was like thick sludge, it didn't completely melt.I also have good quality (MG) braid of various sizes, again no matter how much I tried,, only a tiny bit of the solder went onto the wick (used loads of flux)I really like the idea of using my dremel next time time I do something like this so I can separate the big ground lugs from the rest of the connector.I've got two replacement ports turning up Thu or Fri from Amazon.I watched this vid (from 16:40) (I wish my ground pins went molten like his does)I think what I will do is buy a few dirt cheap HDMI ports from RS as I should get them Wednesday, mount them on a bit of PCB proto board, and try what the youtube vid shows, to see how well I get on.I think I'll be able to find where each pin should go as there seems to be a ton of PS4 HDMI screwups on YouTube, some far worse than mine.Will get back and let you know how I get on

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 09:47:50 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 12, 2020, 05:35:02 pmCan someone recommend a gel type from either RS or Farnell please (bought my original flux after being recommended it by another poster on here when originally setting up my lab, been totally fine for soldering, not so good for desoldering)Many thanksI've also just found this which is a great helphttps://www.psxhax.com/attachments/j5gjki-jpg.3225/

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 10:45:09 am
content: maybe i just made a mistake thinking the TOPNIK TK83 is similar to the liquid crap i was having. so i take back my word.. my flux isnt ideal, but this video may help finding a better one...

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2020, 10:53:04 am
content: In typical Sony Fashion I see their HDMI ports are upside down, when mounted to the board, the thin part of their ports is on the top rather than all the ones on RS and Farnell where it's on the bottom.Can still have a good practise wiring individual pins with them though

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 03:25:47 pm
content: Soldering advice pleaseI've had a bit of a practise with my microscope and enamelled wire, some parts went OK, some didn't.I first tinned the end of 12 pieces of wire, with iron on 400c (750F) and dipping end of wire in flux, loading the iron with solder, and passing the end of the wire through the solder that's on the iron (as per a couple of youtube vids). This worked well in most cases.I then turned my iron down to 300C (570F)Then I removed the solder points from a few holes in a bit of prototype PCB, mounted one side of the ic so that the legs I'm soldering onto are between the holes I just removed.I then put flux onto the right hand leg, added a bit of solder, even with the wire in the tweezers, spent what felt like an eternity getting it to solder onto the pin (far too long, would melt the hdmi port), but hey, it was my first one and I'm learning.I then realised I should start at the left hand side so that I'm not bringing the iron over ones I've already done.I fluxed all the pins, dragged the solder across them all,. that seemed to work fine.then I fluxed the first pin, put wire in tweezers, this went straight on with zero problem. The rest I really struggled with, I THINK part of it was because none of the legs on this side of the IC were soldered down, hence when I touched with the iron, the leg moved a fraction down, when I removed the iron, the leg moved a fraction up.Anyway, I eventually soldered all 12 on (refluxing for each wire)Then I decided to solder the other ends to the PCB. I went from right to left, fluxing the PCB, soldering the PCB, fluxing again, then soldering the wire to it, then cutting the remaining wire. This worked perfectly to begin with.Then I snapped one of the wires, while trying to repair it, I removed the one to the left of it by accident. At this point I thought I would ask for advice.I took a photo through my microscope (first pic)I thought I'd clean the PCB then photograph again, hence cleaned the joints of the IC as gently as I could with Isopropyl and cotton buds (q tip), but even going as gently as I could, I snapped the 4th wire in from the right. This wasn't the solder joint breaking, it's the wire snapping, it's about as strong as a human hair (second pic), I also see getting a bit of flux on the top of the IC and removing with Isopropyl, removes the IC part number.And the final pic is a pic of where I soldered the other ends to the PCB (the one that looks like it's going underneath the others is the one that snapped)I'm using 0.1mm (38 AWG) enamelled wire as that's all I have, would going down a few grades be a sensible move, making the wire stronger?I just wondered after looking at my attempts, whether anyone has any advice before I try again? The legs on the HDMI port are going to be smaller than the legs on this IC. Or is it just a matter of practice, practice, practice? I have a load of cheap hdmi ports turning up tomorrow to practice with.Wish I could take a vid of me trying, but only have a cheapish microscope (Swift S41-20) , so please excuse the photos, hard taking a pic through one of the lensesI have some decent gel flux arriving tomorrow, that will probably be better than the liquid flux I used today.I've been using the smallest soldering tip I have (0.8mm chisel tip, Hakko T18-D08)Many thanks for all your help, I will get there eventually

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 03:39:41 pm
content: I use 30AWG wire... I bought a roll, suspect I will never finish it.[like this... 30awg (0.25mm) Ultra thin insulated connecting KYNAR wire - Green]You seem to be doing OK. FWIW when connecting to vias I use a fibreglass pencil first... so buy one if you haven't got one already... try not to get the fibreglass fragments in your fingers or lungs.My soldering iron lives around 350C so if you can get away with less you are doing well.I'm impressed with your efforts

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2020, 04:35:34 pm
content: Quote from: flolic on April 12, 2020, 10:18:54 pmI did it a couple times, but I had an Ersa IR hotplate with temperature sensor, I let the board heat up to 120ºC for some 3-4 minutes to ensure proper heat soak of the part, then using hot air plus a soldering iron and a river of flux it was easy-ish, hot air got the pins free, and then I danced around with the iron on the big ground pads, it was quite nerve racking the first time, but the connector came loose without any damage, and I always replaced nearby caps, no way I was going to risk a return on a repair due to a 50 cent cap.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 05:51:44 pm
content: Today my cheap HDMI ports turned up, along with some awg30 wire and decent gel flux (Farnell and RS still doing next day delivery which is nice)The thicker wire and the gel flux made a huge difference.I managed to solder all 19 pins on an hdmi port, then I stupidly wasn't happy with one a few in from the left hand side, so tried to re-solder it and the one to the left popped off. My tip isn't small enough to not bridge two pins.I took the others to the left off and started to re-solder, but I'm obviously getting tied (have numerous health issues) as I really struggled from this point, I'd get two soldered on, then the 3rd would end up knocking the previous one I'd done, so I gave up for the day.I've included pics of what I'm left with, don't think it's too bad for my first attempt at pins this small (much smaller than the IC I attempted yesterday), although far from perfect.Hopefully it wont take too much more practice before I'm confident on trying the PS4 repair.Many thanks for all your help

author: Manul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 06:58:12 pm
content: In my opinion soldering like it is shown in the video of Reply #16 looks horrible. A lot more nice is what flolic showed on Reply #10. I do same, just usually I use single strand which is not bent into double, but that does not matter so much. When you rebuild pads like that it is so much more nice. Just need to be careful to not disturb them while soldering connector. All this running of thick enamelled wire looks bad...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 07:24:39 pm
content: after cleaning it should looks much nicer. assembling is several magnitude much easier than when trying to dismantling it. so i will simply go direct to the board when assembling it.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 09:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: Manul on April 15, 2020, 06:58:12 pmI agree how flolic did it in reply 10 looks much neater. But I’m totally new to soldering under a microscope, and have gone from thinking I’ve completely ruined the PS4, to finding a method I have practiced that seems to be working.I will look at a few more vids to see if there’s anyone showing how to do what flolic did, and might have a little practice that way to see how I do.But as long as I get it working I’m happy. Once the covers are back on, no one will see anyway, I still want to do a good job, as long as all the pins are properly and securely connected, I’m happy, I can learn neater ways when I get more experience

author: Manul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 10:26:05 pm
content: It looks to me, that you have broken pads with traces under connector. How about these then? I still think that flolic example is easier and better.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2020, 11:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 13, 2020, 10:45:09 amI used this NT flux (as recommended) for doing an LQFP144.....worked excellent for soldering, lasted and boiled off far less than my old RMA. But...there is always a "but".....it was the most stubborn flux to remove it just wouldn't dissolve away (formed a gel grease). I tried almost everything. Eventually I cleaned most but that was more persistence in scrubbing!Would I use it again....yes if I can find away to clean it off.....

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 02:52:37 am
content: Quote from: Renate on April 12, 2020, 09:34:55 pmThis is also where flush cutters come in handy. If one doesn't have the tools to heat large pin count devices evenly on of the better approaches is to (as you say) divide and conquer. With flush cutters you just snip away the leads first.If some one has an opposite goal, that is to save part but not the circuit board, you can take the opposite track and heat the board up very quickly from the back side with a heat gun or torch and then knock the parts off the minute the solder melts. The board will be trashed but you can harvest very difficult to get parts this way.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 09:14:33 am
content: Quote from: wasyoungonce on April 15, 2020, 11:20:56 pmgood to know. from the video i think NT (the 1st in the list) is the best too and the cheapest per volume i guess. but difficult to clean is one problem. have you tried using thinner? it never fail me on most materials that need cleaning.

author: flolic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 10:02:03 am
content: Quote from: Manul on April 15, 2020, 06:58:12 pmI am usually using 0.1mm ot thinner wire. I solder one end and then bend it back. Then thoroughly clean everything and apply small drop of UV curable solder resist ink over the soldering point. Capillary effect then pull very small quantity of ink under the wire. Then expose the ink to the UV laser pen and after 10 to 20 seconds ink is cured. That will fix the wire to the board and it will not float away when you try to solder pin to it.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 10:38:31 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 16, 2020, 09:14:33 amI got the CIF. Seems very good, needed one RS or Farnell stocked for a reasonable price

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2020, 10:50:16 am
content: Quote from: Manul on April 15, 2020, 10:26:05 pmAs per the attached pic, there are other points they can connect to.The HDMI casing is metal. If I did it the way Flolic did it, I would have solder points under the metal which I would need to shield somehow.I see Flolic has recently posted that he uses curable solder mask when he does this, I don't have any and have never used it. It might be that simply coating the pins, setting it off with UV (don't' have UV light either), will make them totally heat proof.My worry as I'm new to this type of soldering is that once the port is on, I wont know what's happening underneath it, for all I know, the heat from the soldering iron might melt the solder mask if I haven't put enough on, or done it right, enough to cause a short to ground. Again, if I was experienced and I had practice using this method, I agree it would be the best, but as it is, I'd rather run the few wires to the points shown in the attached pic.Sure I could get solder mask delivered by tomorrow, but it's the lack of knowledge/practice on using this that makes me think it's more sensible to run wires in this instance.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 06:07:39 pm
content: Well I fitted new hdmi port, had to put 6 wires on it.Wasn’t the neatest of jobs, but all pins (except some of the grounds) connected and nothing appeared to be shorted.Put case back together just to test, fan sped up, then flashed red 3 times and went off. Nothing showed up on the screen.Tomorrow I will Recheck wiring and assemble the case properly putting new thermal compound on cpu, but I think I’ve screwed something somewhereAt least towards the end I found connecting wires to hdmi port reasonably easy, it sort of clicked.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 08:24:40 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 16, 2020, 09:14:33 amits funny when i'm working on something right now, i realized the flux (paste) that i use for cleaning iron tip is the NT ZJ-18 exactly as in the video. took me to go to our local online shop earlier to see if i can get the supplybut its actually right beside me all this time. i remember i got it free with soldering iron purchase from china last year. but i dont like it, it doesnt distribute solder on pins as easily and as nicely as the one i currently use (Kingbo RMA-218) so its just going to be my iron tip cleaner. cleaning it with thinner off the pcb is just as easy as the rest, no problem there.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 11:35:42 am
content: It's working, been on for over 20 mins nowI think it was just overheating before as had hardly any thermal paste on it.I spent a few hours today, cut an old HDMI lead in half, pliged it into the PS4 and checked each wire with the new port (and my additional wires).All was OK, so I put some conformal coating on to make it look a bit nicer, replaced the thermal paste with decent stuff, made sure all thermal pads were there, put it back together, turned it on, and this time the blue light turned to white, no red lightBut still no pic. Then it dawned on me, I'm plugging it into my PC monitor using an HDMI to DVI-D lead and I had set my PC monitor input to HDMI (doh)A few pics if anyone's interested.Thanks for all your help

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 02:10:06 pm
content: differential pair is not recognized anymore!well who cares if it works.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 07:01:46 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 18, 2020, 02:10:06 pmAs I have no clue what you are talking about, I have something else to learn about

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 05:33:48 am
content: Many of those signals run in pairs (positive/negative) and should be routed next to each other for best signal quality.That being said, it it ain't broke, don't mess it up againProblems may or may not appear if you try to use longer cables or higher resolution or refresh rate.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2020, 07:16:18 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 18, 2020, 11:35:42 amI just tack down the mega flapping wires with a bit of UV cure glue... try and keep it neat and tidy