Looking for a multimeter for my father (hard of sight) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:36:06 pm
content: sorry guys for asking such a newbie question as what multimeter but...I work with my fathers repairing boilers and heating systems. its a partnership that been going for about 10 years. the problem is he is getting on now and his sight is failing and the multimeter he was used too was taken when his van was stolon().I gave him a extech ex330 but he did not get along with it. he is used to manual ranging and he is vision can be very bad.his needs a very simple. all he needs is voltage measuring(240Vac), measuring resistance and continuity. he is not stupid(far from it) but it needs to be super simple and have a super big and bright display and be robust as it will get kick about. Also I know I am asking for help but retirement is not an option...so a simple, well build multi meter that has Large bright display.also if it helps I have bought the EEVblog ruler and the give negative feedback Tee Shirt... and will donate to EEVblog if I get a good suggestion

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:52:03 pm
content: Fluke 77-4 comes to mind. Large backlit display, easy to use (although auto ranging), built like all Flukes. $100+ on eBay or $300 new.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:04:56 pm
content: Dangerousness aside, how about a voltage indicator tester likehttp://martindale-electric.co.uk/martindale-vi137002-voltage-indicator-fused-variant-p-350.htmland a simple battery/bell type continuity tester.Probably the safer option, at least for the voltage test bit. Don't think I'd let my Father prod around in boilers if I knew he was struggling to see the meter.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:17:53 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on January 03, 2014, 10:52:03 pmAnother option would be the Fluke 179 which measures temperature which might come in handy for HVAC purpose?I think the simplicity of the Fluke 77IV/170 user interace for what your father needs is good. For example, ACV, ohms, backlight and continuity are all main functions. That is, you don't need to press a "select" button to enable the functionality.On the EX330, the continuity, ohms, capacitance and diode are all shared in one rotary setting and you have to press mode to get to the right one. If the annunciators are small, then your father will have a hard time seeing what is being selected.

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:20:01 pm
content: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluke-116-multimeter-temperature-microamps/dp/B000YY128Qhttp://www.rapidonline.com/test-measurement/fluke-116-digital-multimeter-82684/http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697745.pdfNice simple meter meant for heating engineers.Got one here, customer return just repaired by Fluke. Looks like new but missing the temperature probe, £75 shipped in the UK.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 03, 2014, 10:36:06 pmVery few manufacturers make manual ranging meters that are safe. You will find a lot of crap manual ranging multimeters, but I wouldn't stick them into 230V AC.The only company that I can think of that is respected, safe and designed for HVAC community is Fieldpiece. Have a look at what they call their "bench meters".http://www.fieldpiece.com/products/category/metersThey are all manual ranging and have backlight. Unfortunately, the manual does not state how large the lcd digits are.I haven't see any teardowns of Fieldpiece meters to see what type of input protection they have. For example, do they have thermistors, varistors, fusible resistor, current limiting resistors, isolations slots, HRC fuses, etc?

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:28:02 pm
content: sorry guys...I live in the UKthe 77-4 is sounding good so far, just looking for a video review to get a feel of how it works.I think you are right about the cycling though the options with buttons presses. he was so used to just turning it to what he need and that was thatthe manual ranging one was a no name make he had for years and years. must of built up muscle memory with it

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:28:36 pm
content: Fluke 113 looks good?http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/uken/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-113.htm?PID=55990

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 03, 2014, 11:28:02 pmMartin did a review of the Fluke 177. The Fluke 77IV and 177 are virtually identical with some differences. At least you will get an idea though by watching his videos.As a bonus, the Fluke 115 is also in the video. The 115 is like the 116 mentioned in the thread.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:45:59 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on January 03, 2014, 11:28:36 pmI think the Vchek feature will confuse his father. I'm somewhat familiar with it from my Fluke 12.While I have a 113, it wouldn't be my first recommendation for his father's needs. In addition, the 113 is low impedance multimeter.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:52:05 pm
content: Yes, possibly...It did also confuse me at first because it seems to combine several functions on the one dial position. Most odd...However, it does look like you simply plug the leads in and it auto senses for AC or DC voltage or continuity?I don't like this type of operation myself (assuming I understand it correctly) but it's worth considering because of the sheer simplicity of operation.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:57:14 pm
content: don't Laugh but i was hoping for a display like the bat signalthe 77-4 does look good but I would be tempted to borrow it.as an aside... how do they decide a DMM is for HVAC? For me I would expect dual Temp readings for differential temp....

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:01:01 am
content: I would need to try out that 113 to get my head around it...it also would be polar opposite to what he is used to. maybe not a bad thing if I cant get a good manual ranging one.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:04:41 am
content: The 113 does seem a bit odd.See this link for more info on typical practical uses.http://www.fluke.com/fluke/uses/comunidad/fluke-news-plus/articlecategories/dmms/revenue+meter+socket+checks.htmVCHEK combines a continuity test and a voltage measurement on a single switch position. The meter automatically determines and displays what is being measured. This eliminates the guesswork and allows the meter technician to quickly determine whether continuity or voltage is present without changing switch positions or pressing any buttons.The Fluke 113 also incorporates a low impedance input, which acts as a load for the socket tests, in cases where ghost voltages may be present. This combination makes ease of use a key factor in selecting and using the Fluke 113 for all meter socket checks.The Fluke 113 is now ready to make either a continuity test, diode check, or voltage measurement. All three tests are automatic. The meter will determine the correct measurement.If the meter got confused (surely it will get confused if the signal is intermittent?) then I can see this driving me a bit potty.But maybe it is OK?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:08:46 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 03, 2014, 11:57:14 pmI've never worked that out either. Like all of the auto multimeters out there for mechanics that don't seem to do anything different to a generic one. I think it's just marketing bollocks.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:19:43 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 03, 2014, 11:57:14 pmThe main things that HVAC guys need are the normal voltage, current and resistance measurements in the ranges an electrician needs, plus microamps for measuring flame sense. Most boilers I have dealt withuse the flame to rectify an AC voltage and measure current flowto confirm flame presence (you need to shut off the fuel if there is no flame before something blows up). I don't think the Fluke 77-iv can measure the flame sense current, so I don't think it will get the whole job done.Oh yeah, being able to measure temperature is often helpful, too.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:24:23 am
content: I think you should do more than just looking for a multimeter with a large display. If your father's eye sight is so bad that he has problems with the displays of common multimeters a trip to an eye specialist or optician seems to be urgently needed.Because, if he can't read the meter he likely has problems seeing other things when working. And that means it becomes dangerous. E.g. what about finding and hitting the right test points and not accidentally touching something dangerous he can't see any more? What about reading labels or instructions about voltages, safety switches, etc.? What about driving his van?

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:37:12 am
content: Thank you for explaining what flame rectification isI have never try to measure it directly. the boilers I work on have them combine in with the spark generator (it use one probe to ignite and measure for flame) and I am not sure I can put a high voltage spark though the micoamps range on a DDM.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 12:44:31 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 04, 2014, 12:24:23 amits a few things. its a combo of old age making him long sighted and producing no tears to lub his eyes. he has to add cream to has eyes which makes them blurry and i think the surface of his eyes is damages in some way as well.for his driving...he has always be a dangers...just he has his eye sight to blame now. don't worry he is on first name terms with the optician and eyes doctors.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:27:07 am
content: My father who is 88 suffers from poor vision as well (macula degeneration). I got him one of these to help surf the net.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-10X-Lighted-Magnifying-Glass-LED-Head-Headband-Magnifier-Loupe-W-Sunshield-/181178907330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2a2f1abac2&_uhb=1....he still drives a car!

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:34:26 am
content: Well I hate to be the first to suggest it but in this special case this is maybe the answer youre looking for. A Uni-Trend 70A...I know I know UNI-T so sue me. But asside from the fact that it is made by UNI-T it is a very rugged and stable multimeter.A friend of mine's father got one for the same reasons it has an ultra big display it is manual ranging and big as hell.http://www.uni-trend.com/UT70A.htmlRussian Product Video

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 03:19:07 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 03, 2014, 10:36:06 pmMehran, may I suggest, say how big a display he needs. For example, 1 inch high character LCD or whatever. What another person consider large may not be what you think of as large.Rick

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 04:23:32 am
content: Every Uni-T multimeter I have seen has had very high contrast displays. The only Uni-T meter that seems to get the input protection right is the UT139C.http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeters-AC-DC-with-Temperature-Auto-Range-/181179994103Isn't there the option for many Agilent meters to use bluetooth and then run a remote display on a computer or ipad or Android? That would provide a huge display.But..... why isn't everyone talking about an OLED display?The price is horrendous but:http://www.tme.eu/en/details/u1273a/portable-digital-multimeters/agilent-technologies/#or for a much better price:http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/124600/VOLTCRAFT-VC-890-OLED-DMM-Digital-Multimeter-with-Software-includedCAT-IV-600V-CAT-III-1000V?ref=searchDetailOne thing that seems to be overlooked is that the text on the selection dial and buttons are not going to be easy to see. There is no fix for that other than a magnifier.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 07:08:20 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on January 04, 2014, 04:23:32 amTrue. But the position of the range switch can be memorized by hand, but there are no substitutes for big letters on the screen if one can't read it otherwise.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:34:29 am
content: Is there a "speaking" meter on the market? I foundthis one, but it is no longer on the market. I don't know if it would do what you need, anyway.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:42:31 am
content: It might be a little too expensive, but one of the agilent OLED meters would probably be the best for someone with poor vision?

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:16:29 am
content: They do not make it anymore.I restored this one for a friend who is blind.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 02:08:02 pm
content: Has he considered glasses? Though my dad insists his vision is perfect

author: KedasProbe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 04:26:39 pm
content: Maybe a BM257http://www.tme.eu/en/details/bm257/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/#

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 04:52:24 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 04, 2014, 02:17:28 pmyeh. thats sounds about right.the UNI-T UT70A looks like a good runner. its the cycling through functions vis button presses that he really does not like.the problem with that brymen 257...is i want itwas hoping he would keep the ex330 and I could buy one also have that function cycling again.does anyone know much about UEI spotted this(DM384):http://www.instrumart.com/assets/UEi-DM384-Data-Sheet.pdfthe display looks interesting and looks fairly simple?

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 04:55:45 pm
content: You would have to make sure that his vision is not affected by colour. My father has troubles with reds and greens... and he still drives...

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 05:24:48 pm
content: OK, I'll jump in as well.I don't think the Fluke 113 is that great. Certainly it's a bad choice if you can't handle the low impedance or limited resistance range (less than 100k ohms if I recall). Also, the displays on the newer Flukes have rather poor contrast which is probably every bit as important as large digits.The nice thing about Flukes is they do a good job with readable fonts (for lack of a better term) and icons. Extech seems to love VERY tall letters that actually aren't that easy to read in the end. Fluke seems to do a good job with the right about of white space and the like. However, the contrast on the newer models just isn't that good. Many of the older models had great contrast. The square box 23, 7x series especially as well as the first gen tapered meters (23-3, 77-3). They don't have back lights but that might not be needed much of the time. Really, I think those Brymens would be worth a look. If the new Fluke 177 and similar still has good contrast I would consider one or a Fluke 87-3 (again much better contrast vs the 87-5).

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 05:34:11 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 04, 2014, 11:16:29 amVery unusual meter. I love the squiggly feeler wire for the AC range! Thanks for the picture PA4TIM, a real beauty.Electricians never die, they just get older...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:23:53 pm
content: I just did an informal test with my girlfriend as to what she found easier to see from a distance. The meters involved were:Brymen BM257Brymen BM869Uni-T UT71EDigitek DT2843RFluke 27FM most recent model with yellow and charcoalThe 27/FM came in second to last place for display visibility but still pretty good. The BM257 came in first for display.The 27/FM came in first for easy to see selections on the dial and for the input jacks. This was because of the large distance between selections and unambiguous symbols and text. The input jacks are very clear and easy to see with COM jack being clearly a different color than the red input jack.My conclusion is that amongst the meters I have I would select the Fluke 27/FM for a person with poor sight if the only option was an LCD display. I think that seeing other things other than just the display are important if not more important for safety. The 27/FM will also take a beating that might occur from not being able to see too well where it is being placed or if things get spilled on it. The CATIII/1000V doesn't hurt too if the person can't see what they are connecting to very well. I am not saying that a sight limited person should be poking around high energy circuits but the design will absorb errors that might not be foreseen.Another more expensive option might be the Amprobe HD160B, but it is very expensive.http://www.tme.eu/en/details/hd160c/portable-digital-multimeters/amprobe/hd160b/#I think a good Fluke 27/FM fits the best from what I know of multimeters. It is relatively inexpensive and very durable as well as being fairly easy to use and unambiguous.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 10:55:37 pm
content: thanks Lightages. not sure about the 27fmbeen think about this all day and it is kill me. I have total analysis paralysis. the BM257 is sold outthat UEi look like a winner but i cant get it in the UK and cant get enough info about its insides. the I hate the manual selector on the UT70A.feel like Buying a fluke 17B and telling him to just deal with pressing a button.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:05:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 04, 2014, 10:55:37 pmFirst result on Google.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UEI-DM384-Digital-Multimeter-HVAC-NEW-/360511140994

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:14:31 pm
content: sorry, i meant a UK or EU suppler for warranty. The meter is a little bit unknown and if its god awful its going back...my risk it and do a review for you guys...

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 04, 2014, 11:14:31 pmAh OK, see what you mean.Must say though, the meters I hate using the most are the Fluke ones as they are the ones that go to sleep while you are using them, gets old fast. More annoying when you have one on the bench with a device on soak, or when you are jammed in a corner in an appliance. They're nice, but I wouldn't buy one. The Uni-T one is the one that is in the tool bag, not too expensive to get knocked and dropped (and it has survived plenty of both) and it pretty much does what the Fluke does.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:25:43 pm
content: Hi,for dark areas and bad eyesight I would prefer an OLED-Display, for example this Agilent:http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-2043720-pn-U1273A/handheld-digital-multimeter-45-digit-water-and-dust-resistant?nid=-34618.991693&cc=DE&lc=gerNot cheap, but IP54 (when dealing with Water not so bad) and a very decent brand.But I had one of this Agilent OLED-Meters in the Hand for only 5 Minutes, therefore it's a blind shot from me.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:53:52 pm
content: what you guys think of this?http://uk.milwaukeetool.eu/test-and-measurement-en/2217-en/expensive though at £130...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:04:17 am
content: I don't know about that meter because the display doesn't look that good in the one "photo" that looks like a real photo. I don't trust those images provided by the manufacturer to represent the real look.This video says it all, horrible display IMHO.The 27/FM is really a great meter for taking a beating and ease of use. It is debatable if the display is good enough though.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:06:41 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 04, 2014, 11:53:52 pmDon't know if they make these themselves or buy them in but their recent push in the power tool division has worked. Can't fault any of their new kit, would put it on a par with Makita and DeWalt. If the meters are made to the same standards I don't think there'll be much wrong with it. Never seen one IRL though. Probably not something I'd order off the internet before trying one out.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:24:05 am
content: The Milwaukee has apparently only 30 hours batt life with the light on and is nearly unreadable without it.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:27:37 am
content: ha, perfect

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:42:34 am
content: The Fluke 116 looks pretty good, and I am a retired person with poor eyes. I'd love to see what that Milwaukee display looks like in person. Battery life or not.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:00:26 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on January 05, 2014, 12:04:17 amA review of a multimeter by a pair who give us this gem: "If you have a resistor or whatnot, you can go ahead and put your resistor on and it'll calculate, uh, all kinds of-" So, the same things as ohms?" "Resistance?" "Yeah. Oh, I don't know." "I think so, I think it's measured in ohms."Next, a review of a VNA by a philosophy professor and a truck driver.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:25:53 am
content: If you're that conflicted about which is the best, than why don't you make your father take part in the selection?Ultimately it would be for him and no matter how much time and effort you put into this, you can't really think with his head.So why don't you show him what prospects where you able to find?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 01:33:12 am
content: Here is one you should consider: Uni-T UT50Seems to tick all your boxes:Manual RangingVolt ACOhmsContinuityRobustBig display with auto backlight sensor (Bonus: cover the sensor and the light stays on all the time)http://www.uni-trend.com/UT50A.html5 models:50A (20uA, no Hz, C/F)50B (20nF-100uF, no Hz, C/F)50C (20nF-100uF, 20kHz, no Temp)50D (2mH-20H, no Hz, C only)50E (no uA, 2nF-20uF, 20kHz, C only)Available at Maplin:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNITREND-UT50A-MANUAL-RANGING-DIGITAL-MULTIMETER-TESTER-/201008997183?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2ecd11e33f

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:38:18 am
content: Really Wytnucls? Just look at the confusing selection dial text and compare that meter to how the 27 is easy to discern what selection to make or has been made.http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/MKuvmoW0AZQ/maxresdefault.jpgIt is not just about seeing the display, it needs to be easy to see what the functions and the connections, IMHO. Yes I had a father who had the same problem as described for the OP's father so I have a little experience in the matter although I am no expert.quarros is right too. Mehran should show his father the images of different meters so that he can decide which looks easier for him to see and use.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:08:53 am
content: Everything is on the range switch. After a short while, one remembers where all the high range positions are. It is a lot easier for vision-impaired people to operate than press on push buttons repeatedly for function selection. The small text doesn't matter.That's probably why his father wants a meter with manual ranging.The 27 has a problem with the selector. There is no easy way to tell the direction the switch is facing, with your eyes closed. The small LCD could be a problem too. Has it got a backlight?

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:20:20 am
content: I have an idea, It is maybe stupid but hey...I looked on the UT50 and realised that there are a lot of wasted space on it, because of how the plastic mouldings are connecting, but it is possible toprint and cut a sticker that covers the side mouldings to. So bigger letters can be used for the range selector.(But I stand by my original suggestion that the best compromise in this case would be an UT70A because of those humongous letters,)(Originaly I thought of an UT58D or E but those ones don't have a back light making it worse in low light condition)

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:28:09 am
content: Note, the older Fluke 27's (the ones made in the 80s and 90, not the latest version that Dave showed in his video) have relatively poor contrast. Great meter but the visibility is the poorest of all the Flukes I have tried. Clearly something changed during the life of that meter.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:29:52 am
content: Even better, since it is a cheap meter, one could glue some raised markers on the most relevant positions on each quadrants, for touch feel.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:38:34 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on January 05, 2014, 04:08:53 amPerhaps you are right but there is much to remember.Quote from: Wytnucls on January 05, 2014, 04:08:53 amYes that is a good point. On the other hand, the 27 is so simple to operate that there isn't much to push and the buttons have very specific functions that are easy to remember too.Quote from: Wytnucls on January 05, 2014, 04:08:53 amActually the selector switch does have a bevel on the pointer end with a bump so it is easy to tell by feel where it is pointed. No back light but I assume a person with vision problems is not going to be working in the dark but rather in a properly lit area.Again I like quarros' idea of putting stickers in places to aid in selection. I bet this will be necessary regardless of the meter chosen or at least beneficial.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:47:28 am
content: Not much to remember:Volt AC: start at 45 deg, going upVolt DC: start at 270 deg, going upOhms: start at 180 deg, going rightContinuity at 45 deg.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:54:33 am
content: I like autoranging, for power related fieldwork I used to use a meter that had AC, Continuity, Resistance on the dial. That made life easy (good or bad it's easier). If working in equipment or on the bench I want my meter to default to DC measurement (not ac) and DC current. Man it would be nice if they let you set those types of defaults on a meter or even have a button to let you switch between setups.Sorry that's a bit off topic.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:18:57 am
content: Another good feature of the UT50 is the power button. The range selector can be left on the last used position, between measuring sessions, without having to worry about battery life.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:26:27 am
content: After all this nit picking I am curious to see what the father ends up using.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:30:08 am
content: Probably two wires and a light bulb...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:47:15 am
content: I like the Milwaukee review. Temperature thingy, temperature prongs. FOR SHITS SAKE ITS CALLED A THERMOCOUPLE.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:36:53 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on January 05, 2014, 01:00:26 amDarn - That make me spit coffee all over my keyboardAbsolutely the comment of the day. I'm still laughing.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:33:37 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on January 05, 2014, 01:00:26 amWell I guess they have different expectations than we doAnyway, who do you think is the OEM for that meter? I really dislike the inverted LCD display. Those only work for me when they are back-lit. At least it appears the refresh rate is good and I will assume the housing is reasonably durable but really, so many meters are. I suspect the accuracy is usable but poor by electronics standards (guessing ~1% DCV).

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 03:41:55 pm
content: What about an older fluke that has the selector switches / pushbuttons on the side?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:49:20 pm
content: Old Flukes have tiny LCD screens.Another good reason for using manual ranging is the hard to see decimal point and range indication. For someone with bad vision, it is probably difficult to figure out what the auto ranging is displaying. With manual ranging, the display makes a lot more sense.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 06:19:04 pm
content: well the die has been cast...for better or worse he is getting a UNI-T UT70A. showed him and he liked it.

author: kolbep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:01:59 pm
content: http://www.specialneedscomputers.ca/index.php?l=product_detail&p=841Or google for other talking multimeters.What about desktop multimeters, dont they have manual range, big buttons and big display

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 05, 2014, 06:19:04 pmCan we ask you to get back to us after he used it a little? I think we all really curious what will he say about it later. Especially after "all this nitpicking" as Lightages said.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:48:31 pm
content: The 70A should be fine. The few gripes could be the push button to switch from AC to DC, the poor backlight and the busy range switch selections.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:50:41 pm
content: That is a very big display. UL listed so that's a plus. I wonder what a multi function socket is? Says it's included on the Uni t product page.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:54:18 pm
content: It fits on the jack connectors for convenient cap and transistor testing.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:55:46 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on January 05, 2014, 08:48:31 pmlets hope it defaults to AC

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on January 05, 2014, 08:50:41 pmMakes no difference in the UK.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:58:03 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on January 05, 2014, 08:48:31 pmActually if I remember right, the back light on it can be hacked, and there is space inside the case for additional battery. But I'm unsure on that one.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 12:53:49 am
content: I am glad your father benefited from the discussion. I hope he finds that meter to his liking.

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 06:26:20 am
content: Bad news. I was able to talk with my fathers friend and the UT70A in voltage measurements defaults to DC. Sorry that I did not know.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 08:31:40 pm
content: Ahhhh...great.why have meters default to bloody DC... and why with a meter that has million and one selector switch would have added a flaming ac/dc button...idiots.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 09:18:42 pm
content: Well, all of the Brymens I have tried allow you to select the default start up but they are autoranging. Maybe this BK Precsion model would be to his liking:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/bk-precision/multimeters/2703c.htm

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 12:50:26 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 06, 2014, 08:31:40 pmWell sorry for being a bringer of bad news.Still The UT50 that Wytnucls suggested has separate AC and DC measurement and while it has a smaller display it is still have large letters among the competition. Maybe that can still be an alternative.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 01:59:47 am
content: ok... what about this:http://www.amprobe.com/amprobe/usen/Multimeters/General-Purpose/DM9C.htm?PID=73215amp probe dm9cscraping the bottom of the barrel in turns of quality and the specs are poor...but it does what i think it needs too and i can get it in the UK!!!

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 09:10:16 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 07, 2014, 01:59:47 amAsk your father that seeing the decimal point would be a problem or not, and Since it is an auto ranging meter the range finding time also can be annoying, but not necessarily a problem. As I see it you already have plenty of good choices the UT50, the BK 2703C, or the Brymen BM257... These are all good choices and met the criteria's that you presented, so why go differently?

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 10:08:50 am
content: The dm9c really looks easy, no buttons, I like it.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 10:49:51 am
content: How about the Amprobe DM7C?It's very basic, but appears to be well constructed and have all the qualities your father is looking for, including manual ranging. Linkhere.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 02:24:41 pm
content: the DM7C has no continuity.I have the UNI-T UT70C on order and the DM9C. when they come i will let him pick and send one back.also tracked down the brymen in the UK is sold by Greenlee so could get that for me...I know I have been a Pain and thanks for you help. will post back with internal photos of them.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 04:05:39 pm
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 07, 2014, 02:24:41 pmI thought that at first, but according to Amprobe it does:Quote

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 04:31:02 pm
content: you want to look at a machine with an active display.with that i mean not a display that uses reflected or transmitted light but actually lused emittted light . like an LED or OLED display.stay away from blue or red backlights. bright yellow backligts with black digits give good contrast.white backlights are sort fo ok but yellow is better.i would look at the agilent OLED machines like the U127#A or 1273AX

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 04:38:22 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 07, 2014, 04:31:02 pmProbably the best option for the hard of site. I worry about him mucking through the menus though.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 04:56:03 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 07, 2014, 04:31:02 pmIt is true, look this.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2014, 05:43:51 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 07, 2014, 04:31:02 pmAs brilliant as the Agilent meters are, I'm pretty sure we're well out of the original price range.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 12:55:59 pm
content: Had a play with the UT50A today. Quite impressive meter for the price (22 Euros in Malaysia). Very sturdy, good firm range switch and extra large digits on a clear LCD. The backlight was a letdown; it comes on by itself in the dark, but is very dim and glows a pale green from both sides of the window. Still a good choice for someone wanting manual ranging or with deficient eyesight, IMHO.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 02:02:19 pm
content: got the UT70A today in the post...had a little look at it...first off i think they have sent me a already opened/ tried out DMM...the bad news is AC/DC is a total deal breaker. tried it out on AC main when it was on dc and it read a perfect 000 when there was 240VAC on it. no warning or beeps just perfect 000. this will kill my father...only slight positive is it does remember if you selected DC or AC if you switch the meter off and back on via the AC/DC button on the front... only problem it would be dead easy to switch it back to dc with out noticing and you can change from ac to dc with the meter off...another knock, as a test i wasted to measure a 12k NTC that is used in boilers. so turned it to the 20k ohms scale and read 000...thought it was weird and look at the scale again...i only managed on my first go to put it in-between the 20k & 200k scale...the screen is good and big but does not blow me over with contrast, back light is ok...screen would of been fine though for my father.is sadly going to be a tacky back I think

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 08:50:56 pm
content: Whilst that meter doesn't sound overly fantastic, it does sound like your father shouldn't really be allowed near electricity if his eyesight is so bad that it makes him unable to see what the hell he is doing with the meter. There's also a real chance he won't be able to see what he is actually testing either. For the 230VAC measurements I would look at a set of GS38 test lamps, like these for instance -http://martindale-electric.co.uk/martindale-vi137002-voltage-indicator-fused-variant-p-350.html

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 02:09:24 am
content: Quote from: Lurch on January 09, 2014, 08:50:56 pmno, the DMM is just silly. the AC logo is tiny and easily over looked. basically it could fool any one that the measured wire/device is not live when it is...just poor design:i even went to the trouble of making a little videothe think that gets me...if you were making a meter with giant numbers...why make the ac letters so small? and why in dc have no logo or letters?btw that's a UNT-T ut60e in the background and the boiler is a intergas HRE 36/30

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 03:17:12 am
content: Quote from: Mehran on January 09, 2014, 02:02:19 pmI'm almost afraid to ask. But what is your overall impression of the meter aside of the obvious blunder with AC?

author: staxquad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 03:56:55 am
content: Extech MN15A (£24.00) for manual ranging, MN16A (£31.12) for autoranging (Amazon.co.uk)For the MN15A, from off, AC is dialed to the right, DC is dialed to the leftWhen he would want to measure the mains, he's flick the switch one click to the right and would know he's on the right range and on AC. At a glance he would also notice the switch orientation too (maybe painting the dial pointer yellow would help).XXXXXXXIf he wants to measure DC, he's got to move the switch the other direction.Measure AC and DC Voltage to 600VLarge easy to read digital displayDC Current function to 10AThermocouple Type K function for surface and air temperature measurements up to 1400°F (750°C)Resistance tests with Continuity and Diode functionsManual ranging model with 9V and 1.5V Battery testConvenient mini size with protective rubber holster and tilt standfor the MN16A, from OFF position AC is first to the right while DC is second to the rightMeasure AC and DC Voltage to 600VLarge easy to read digital displayThermocouple Type K function for surface and air temperature measurements up to 1400°F (750°C)DC Current function to 10AResistance tests with Continuity and Diode functionsAutoranging model with AC Current, Capacitance and Frequency measurementsConvenient mini size with protective rubber holster and tilt standData Hold locks reading in the display

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2014, 01:54:21 am
content: got the Amprobe DM9C today..So this is clearly the budget meter which is fine. display is clear, it up dates quickly and auto ranges in good time. the selector is a bit spongy but fine. the outer rubber case and stand really show the cheapness. the test leads a crap but that's was a given. biggest let down is the continuity buzzer. it is fast but scratchy and quiet.the plus side good build quaintly for the price i paid.(£30). it feels like a good basic DMM that is meant for real work.I like it and my dad is happy with it. the screen maybe bigger on the ut70a but did not impress me and comes with glass fuses to boot...

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2014, 02:14:20 am
content: I really like the way they grouped the dial, and having separate selections for continuity, diode check and ohms. No shift keys.

author: Mehran
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2014, 02:31:01 am
content: for a basic meter it is quite nice... when i gave my extech 330 to my dad i started to use my ut60e for work...it looks like its gone though the wars...i may get one for my self as a throw about in the tool boxone thing is though, no back light...but think I may drill a hole in the side of the case and put a led be hide the screen with external switch and replace the piezo with one which is a bit louder.