Ryobi chargers are Bricking Batteries in Firmware preventing repair!- PROVEN - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 10:15:16 pm
content: I ran across this YouTube post from Badar's workshop. I haven't seen this anywhere and this is the right group to evaluate it and sort it out.I thought at first it was click bait or more miracle ways to bring Ryobi packs back to life. Its much more!This guy has experienced some dead Ryobi packs- he replaced some bad cells but the packs remained unable to charge. He dug in further with a firmware debugger, downloaded the code and determined that these packs by design, brick themselves permanently if they ever detect a non chargeable fault. If you replace all the batteries, you still can't recover the pack! This is remarkable. I've experienced some of this and have tried to troubleshoot bad packs with one or two bad cells with no luck. I even talked to Ryobi tech support and they said nothing- this is pretty bullshit.Dave- I think this requires your bullshit detecting skills and really highlighting this. I think its awful.Here's a link to Badar's Workshop YouTube-

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 11:08:13 pm
content: Its for your own safety sir,you might change the cellsfor a more reliable model preventing us selling you a new pack every 6monthswith one thats incompatable with our chargers.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 11:23:10 pm
content: This is a safety feature and it should be present in all devices. Ryobi batteries are not user replaceable. You need special tools to even disassemble the pack, much less to assemble it back.Ryobi does not want a liability of some Joe replacing them with SureFire or whatever random crap batteries they've got on Aliexpress for pennies.

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 11:36:04 pm
content: Based on the video, it is a safety feature which on at least some occasions triggered without adequate long term cause. There is no obvious reason a reset procedure should not be available from Ryobi after an authorised centre has tested the cells, for example.I can see cause for the safety stop, not for near-irretrievable bricking which goes against RTR.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 11:44:41 pm
content: There are no authorized centers. And there is no procedure for replacement of the cells. You can advocate for everyone to be better, but the way it stands right now, permanent switch is not an issue.Ideally they will design empty battery case that you can fill with your own batteries. But again, given the amount of 100000 mAh batteries on Amazon, this is not going to happen. Poor battery performance reflects poorly on the brand.

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 12:09:47 am
content: Quote from: jwet on September 05, 2025, 10:15:16 pmWhat would be remarkable is if there was no auto-brick if you for example hit a severe under-voltage on pack. If you can discharge a cell below ~1.8V and recover the pack, I would consider that a massive fire hazard. I don't know what caused the fault, but having that feature in place is a pretty fundamental part of pack design and not something weird. FWIW I have a dozen Ryobi batteries from various generations and none have self-bricked yet.

author: uer166
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 12:11:57 am
content: Quote from: kite31 on September 05, 2025, 11:36:04 pmHow can youpossiblyknow what an "adequate long term cause" is? I can believe that it can be false triggered in theory, but surely that's a rare affair (more rare than cell failure), therefore not really a problem.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 12:31:32 am
content: If you try to discharge a Ryobi battery too far, it will simply switch off to prevent damage. When that happens you simply charge it up again and continue to use it. I suppose you could in principle leave a discharged battery on the shelf until self-discharge takes it too low, but in my experience the self-discharge rate is negligible. I suppose you could also abuse a battery like crazy to the point of failure, but that would be abnormal.If you do have a dead battery and you don't want to pay retail for a replacement, then I suppose "Ryobo compatible battery shells" are available that you could put your own cells in, or you could buy a complete 3rd party clone battery.On the whole, I would rather have a genuine Ryobi battery that performs like a Ryobi battery than a make-shift repair job. If you look out for "battery and charger included" deals on tools, or Black Friday sales, you can get genuine batteries at quite reasonable prices.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 12:55:45 am
content: Quote from: kite31 on September 05, 2025, 11:36:04 pmRyobi are sold through big-box hardware stores, there's no way some kid at Bunnings is going to be able to reliably diagnose a failed battery pack and declare it safe to use again. As others have pointed out, it's a legitimate safety feature designed to minimise the risk of lithium battery fires - can you imagine what would happen to Ryobi's brand if YouTube videos of their batteries on fire started to appear?

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 01:00:38 am
content: Quote from: uer166 on September 06, 2025, 12:11:57 amI based that comment on the video author's failure to find any defect in any cell.We have people on here repairing battery packs all the time, yet I did not propose personal replacement of a cell. We do have Ryobi repair centres in this country, not at Bunnings.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 01:25:03 am
content: Quote from: kite31 on September 06, 2025, 01:00:38 amFor most consumer electronics and electric appliances, the two most important design criteria are, in order of importance, that it 1) not catch on fire and 2) sort of do its job for at least the duration of the warranty period.The battery is an expendable wear item. There is no service procedure for replacing cells and I'm pretty sure they have good cause not to facilitate such repairs.

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 02:38:36 am
content: And yet people do it, and talk about it at length, and replace them in their phones and computers. See iFixit for example, apart from this forum.Whole packs rather than cells can be replaced with new packs, the usual practice. To say a whole battery cannot be replaced because another failed seems odd.The notable point in the video is that a brand new pack of cells would not function once software was aware of any prior fault in a pack which is no longer present. If the fault was not in the cells but the BMS then that is, in principle, testable.Nowhere did I propose someone attack a battery with screwdriver and hammer. Right to repair involves sufficient information for qualified people to undertake repairs without exclusive dependency on a manufacturer, planned obselescence, or item replacement (at expense) when a part will do.Post Script: I do not buy Ryobi.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 02:51:26 am
content: On a completely unrelated note, interesting to see that they've got some pretty serious electronics in there to take care of the batteries, they've put a lot of effort into making things safe and ensuring they're working properly. Contrast that to premium-priced DeWalt which are almost entirely dumb, just18650s and wires between them and a bare-bones balancer.I wonder if there's some inverse-quality law here where the budget brands like Ryobi and Einhell/Ozito have sophisticated control circuitry and the expensive premium brands have next to nothing.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 03:00:51 am
content: Quote from: kite31 on September 06, 2025, 02:38:36 amThe software has no concept of the replacement of any number of cells up to and including all of them. It has no need to have such a concept, because the pack is sold and supported as one single unmodifiable unit.Quote from: kite31 on September 06, 2025, 02:38:36 amThe 'part' in this case is the entire battery unit. That is how these parts have always been treated.

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 03:18:54 am
content: Yet neither of those is necessary, in the literal sense.

author: indeterminate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 05:38:04 am
content: Over discharging a cell will cause dendrites to grow in the cell and over a number of cycles it will lead to an internal short in the cellthis will result in the cell going into thermal runaway and rupturing then catching fire.So deactivating the battery when the voltage of one cell goes to low is a good thing and you will find this feature in many battery packs

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 06:15:54 am
content: The problem is that people who know nothing about this safety feature think it's planned obsolescence. I've even seen people claim it's some kind of conspiracy.When you see people tearing apart cells without proper safety precautions and swapping them out for 18650 cells from laptops, it's because of these idiots that houses catch fire or buildings under construction burn down.(and crappy quality battery) Li-ion different from Nicd, Nimh, or AA batteries. think of them as having a hand grenade in your hands. pull the pin (no safety feature), and it's over.

author: MariuszD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 09:51:59 am
content: One thing I don't understand is, on what basis does anyone claim that the manufacturer is responsible for the botched modifications/repairs the user made after the purchase?Safety is only important when it increases profits.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 09:59:01 am
content: Quote from: squadchannel on September 06, 2025, 06:15:54 amYou forgot "and solder tabs on it with their grandfathers plumbing soldering iron".

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 10:55:51 am
content: Quote from: jwet on September 05, 2025, 10:15:16 pmThis is how tons of products are designed, and with good reason.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 10:56:27 am
content: Quote from: MariuszD on September 06, 2025, 09:51:59 amIf battery packs were easy to repair, e.g. replace one or two damaged cells in a pack, then ebay etc. would be filled with battery packs badly repaired by 'someone'. And that is a risk to brand reputation.This is already happening though, as I found out for myself when I boughtthis replacement Dell batteryon ebay uk. Business seller, dozens sold, looks absolutely perfect original when you receive it. But mine failed, opened to find horror story. Cells obviously reused from some other equipment, really ugly tab welding, scruffy build, but original Dell pcb from 2010. The plastic case mouldings look original - did they obtain old Dell moulds, as their casings were most likely made in China? Anyway, looks pefect outside, horror inside. This is a risk to the Dell brand if houses start burning down.

author: jwet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 01:28:55 pm
content: I'm surprised that this doesn't seem to bother people. I fully understand the safety implications surrounding LiIon batteries. In my applications job at Maxim, I worked closely with automotive, power tool, cellular and notebook PC manufacturers designing charging and BMS systems for high volume consumer applications. I even wrote some articles and app note firmware for some of our chargers Looking at the pack on insertion and determining whether it is fit to charge is a standard phase of the charge cycle- it's called qualification. Determining that the battery is not chargeable and refusing to charge is fine. Some chargers will try to safely slow charge a battery in this condition to bring it to a chargeable state- this is variously called recovery or pre-conditioning. What is NOT ok and is not common in my experience is making an irreversible change to a battery turning it and its internal electronics into Ewaste. I have cordless tools from all major brands including Ryobi. Ryobi are the most finnicky and failure prone batteries that I've used by a wide margin. I've had one Bosch battery refuse to charge in 10 years, i've had a dozen Ryobi's in the same time.I think at the very least, they should advise customers that these batteries are unrepairable once deemed no good. This is a real safety problem in my mind.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 02:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: MariuszD on September 06, 2025, 09:51:59 amThey are not responsible, but they also don't want a million of TikToks by brain dead people crying how Ryobi set their house on fire. It is a brand risk. And nobody will pay attention to small details, like the fact that it was repaired by some moron with garbage parts.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 04:53:25 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on September 06, 2025, 01:28:55 pmIt would bother me if I had not already decided to never buy another Ryobi tool in my life. I'd buy Harbor Freight first. I think disposability is pretty much implied and Ryobi isn't the only manufacturer with unserviceable battery systems. I had two Milwaukee M12 batteries that become more and more difficult to charge after about 5 years because the temperature sensor circuit had drifted and was overestimating the cell temps. The cells were still good. For some reason I can't remember I was unable to fix it (sensor integrated into some unobtanium chip or something like that) so I complained to Milwaukee that my perfectly good batteries were almost unusable due to this minor fault. They sent me two new batteries but they weren't going to facilitate battery repairs either. It's service by unit replacement all the way.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2025, 11:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: jwet on September 06, 2025, 01:28:55 pmIt doesn't bother me because all my Ryobi lithium batteries have been reliable. I like the fact that the batteries switch off when the voltage is too low. I have seen stories of other brands (like DeWalt) that can be killed easily by over discharge.QuoteIt says on the battery, "Do Not Open". If you want your battery repaired, you will call a Ryobi service center and they will advise you to recycle it and get a replacement.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2025, 12:50:16 am
content: Every time this sort of thing comes up - Laptop batteries, Makita, Ryobi, and Dyson (who I hate with a passion but defend their choice here)...These batteries are not particularly expensive when you consider how much use you can get out of them before they either lose enough capacity to be worthless OR.. the battery management system deems them "old", or "dangerous" and won't accept any charge. Both for safety reasons and as a way to ensure that people don't regularly use batteries that might not be in the safest state.Then consider the cost of repair - Most of these batteries are <$100. Say you charge really cheap for repairs - $30/hr. 3 hours? 2 hours if you want it to be worth while. So this brings up the obvious questions:1) Is it financially worth getting the battery "refurbished" with either new cells -that you have no real faith in since thats down to who repairsit (for <$100) or worth, having someone hack the firmware to buy extra life, andpossibly bypassing safety features.2) is it worth the time to to this? Either DIY, or finding a company/place to do it, shipping it to them, and getting it back?3) Say the above can be done and is significantly cheaper - you save, what $40? and for thatyou have no idea what state that battery is in- do you still leave it left on charge unattented for an hour?Or do you expect people who do this to also have sand buckets on hand for charging their dodgy stuff?4) For power tools, say you use it for a living, you use and charge that battery several times a day.. why on earth would you cheap out saving a few dollars when the tool failure for an hour will cost you far more than that?5) Liabilty. Say you get your pack refirbished/hacked, you put it on charge, it starts a fire and causes damaged property. The original manufacurer could be responsible if that was stock, and under warranty. but its not.. and what about insurance? will they pay up when they find out you've essentially voided the warranty/guarantee of the battery? Nope.I get it, I'm an electronics guy, I love taking this apart, repairing, retrofitting and even modifying things but given the time, money (you still need some equipment to do this DIY) and effort to save <$50, and lose the trust you have with an original battery - especially something that can go very wrong very quickly if tampered with incorrectly.... I just can't justify it, and frankly I'm not sure I would trust someone who makes that kind of risk/benefit analysis and thinks "yeah! I know better". Of course I don't leave things charging in my house over night - but I do leave things charging unattended, and I don't want doubt in the back of my mind to save a few bucks.Add to all this - batteries do not last forever. Even with light use, stored in reasonable conditions, that battery probably isn't going to be great in 6,7 or 10 years time. I have noticed that for some (older people) this period doesn't seem very long and thingsshouldlast a decade, but these batteries are just not designed for that, and its folly to think that everything should be.I have no doubt "planned obsolescence" is a thing in some consumer tech, but with batteries.. its no conspiracy, its companies trying to reduce the chances of incidents leading to bad press and liability - that you agree to by buying the product.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2025, 03:22:38 am
content: well i do have over 10x 20v 5 amps DEWALT li-ion batteries still going very strong, some are 2016 and up, charged on 6 months intervals if neededand one who had the fuse metal strip burned and bypassed by a good awg wire, and this one i put it on their biggest impact and still going goodyes i've heard about some brand who deliberately disable packs after x charges, i simply avoid them.