Few questions from a newbie - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ashiha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 02:02:34 am
content: I am someone who has generally preferred software over the hardware side of computers for most of my life. I am on my last year in college for my Software Engineering degree. I have chosen to expand my knowledge by learning what I can about hardware and have quite a lot of catching up to do.I have already purchased copies of The Art of Electronics by Paul Horowitz and Practical Electronics for Inventors by Paul Scherz and Simon Monk. I look forward to learning everything I can from them. I also am anticipating the release of the third edition of The Art of Electronics since the current one is very outdated in many ways.I have also been trying to learn everything I can from the EEVblog channel and think that Dave is awesome for doing what he does. I first watched his series on how to solder to answer some more specific questions that most videos and articles do not touch on, but he hit every point and did so on a fantastic camera with great angles.I have always been someone that learns better by having personal goals to set for myself. I have chosen to make my first project a subwoofer amplifier for my home to be followed by another speaker amplifier to eventually make my own surround sound system. I already have the experience in the creation of enclosures and am comfortable working with wood and fiberglass.However, I have some questions that I haven't found answers to in the videos so far (there are a ton of them!) that I'm hoping you guys can possible help out with.1. How do most people end up getting their bare boards built with solder mask? Are there companies where you send your diagrams and they send you a board? Do they generally have a quantity requirement or can you just do the one "prototype"?2. How do most people go about creating shells for their electronics? I have some ideas for things that I want to make in the future. They aren't necessarily meant for them to be created as inventions and sold, but I also would feel better about them being protected from the elements in some cases (one idea in particular is meant to be used at a shooting range).3. Where would you suggest buying things like solder, flux, and parts? I understand that you might have a large selection of parts built over the years from scraping electronics, but there must be a place that you go to sometimes. So far, I know aboutwww.mouser.comandwww.digikey.combut are there any others that I should know about?4. Dave has have gone fairly in-depth about soldering stations and has made recommendations on which are the great for professionals. However, are there any models that you guys can recommend for beginners or people who won't be doing very much soldering? I'm hoping for something cheaper than the FX-888D, but don't want to buy used if I don't have to. I can afford the FX-888D and similarly priced products, but I can't justify getting it if I'm not sure how much it'll get used. Are the cheapo, direct plug, single setting ones good enough for me?I'm very sorry for making this so long, but I wanted to be thorough. If you guys have anything else to add to help me in my learning process, I'd very much appreciate it. My goal here is simply to expand my knowledge for all things electronic and not to complete one particular project.I wish you all the best and hope to hear from you soon.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 02:24:26 am
content: WelcomePut a flag in your profile for local recommendations for suppliers.

author: ashiha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 02:38:58 am
content: Done. Thank you.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 02:44:50 am
content: Welcome to EEVblog... To answer your questions, there are plenty of options when you search Google. For example, a search for "PCB manufacturing" returns a pile of various manufacturers who can turn your drawings into boards. Look for example also at this list:http://www.ladyada.net/library/pcb/manufacturers.htmlAs far as creating shells, you have various options from 3D-printing places or many people are using laser-cut wood panels to assemble enclosures. The design will be different. For example, look up laser-cutting services and you will see they can offer wood, acrylic and other materials. You will have to design your PCB possibly with holes or stand-offs and also your enclosure with holes to place stand-offs and mounts, etcetera.... or if you have knobs and displays, plugs, etc... It is a complete challenge of design-engineering.You can get solder/flux and components either online or if you have a nice local electronics supply warehouse then why not shop in person? Then it makes it easier to exchange and return stuff. Regarding the soldering station... You should invest in a GOOD ONE because it will last you and last you for many years. If you buy cheap, it will not perform well and you will be frustrated. This is not something you want to cheapen out on.

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 02:45:43 am
content: I order pcbs from oshpark and sometimes from seeedstudio. Oshpark seems more reasonable for my needs. Regarding enclosures for the projects, it's all depends on what you're after - for a simple, yet nice looking cases I use ponoko service to cut acrylic and assemble pieces. Here is an example of one of these cases:Solder, connectors, etc I buy off ebay. Other parts from digikey.

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 04:33:51 am
content: And as a warning: avoid buying components from eBay. Especially from China. The only exception is extremely rare or specialized parts, and then avoid China.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 04:39:03 am
content: If there is a Fry's near you that is a good place for instant gratification. For instance they usually have the FX-888D for a reasonable price and they have a range of meters and other items you can examine close up before buying. I get my solder, flux and other items from there.

author: ashiha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 05:03:20 am
content: Thank you all for your contributions so far!That is great news about being able to order PCBs! I really didn't want to make them on my own and resort to not having solder mask.I love the acrylic work there and will certainly consider them on my future projects. I think I will also consider making fiberglass shells for stuff as well since I'm already comfortable working with it (I'd have to check to see how it affects electronics first).I am lucky enough to have learned the "do not buy from China / Hong Kong" lesson long ago and only resort to eBay purchases for things that I don't mind sub-par quality of.I do have a Fry's Electronics somewhat near me and currently use them for my needs, but I can't help but feel that their pricing on stuff can be atrocious at times.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 05:48:53 am
content: With Fry's, pick what you buy from them. Electronic components are expensive, sure, but at least you are paying for shipping if it's just a few items. They have had good deals in the past on some things like the FX-888 when it was being replaced with the digital model. Computer parts like disk drives and memory are as good a price as you will find anywhere.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 06:40:05 am
content: 1. A few examples of PCB companies that are commonly used by the hobbyist market:IteadstudioSeeedstudioOSH Park2. You can sometimes get lucky and recycle/repurpose something, use a pre-made box fromHammondor similar manufacturer, or go custom laser cut or 3D printed for example (wood, metal, acrylic). Seeedstudio offers these services as well.Couple of examples:Protocase(metal)Ponoko(wood, acrylic, 3D print)3. Distributors, as it's the easiest way to avoid fakes IMHO (also makes for filler items when ordering parts when possible, such as tossing in some desolder wick to meet a minimum order cost requirement).Newarkwould be another to add to your list of component suppliers.Allied ElectronicsandFuture Electronicscan be useful from time to time as well (tend to have large MOQ's, but useful if you use something often enough you decide to buy a reel for example).Tayda Electronicsmay be of interest as well (very low prices, located in Thailand).If you're after tools and supplies rather than components, you might want to also consider the following sources:All-Spec(prices are usually decent to begin with, and they run sale and clearance items well worth browsing)Stanley Supply(they also have a clearance section)4. Do yourself a favor, get a decent station to begin with.A bit less than $100 takes care of this in the US (Hakko FX-888D or Weller WES51), and you get better performance, better long term economy, and fewer headaches/less aggravation. Well worth the extra $40 or so you'd save on the initial price over the aggravation factor alone IMHO.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 07:30:50 am
content: Quote from: ashiha on July 12, 2014, 02:02:34 amThe normal way is NOT to get stuff laser cut, or 3D printed, wood chewed on by nude virgines at full moon, or whatnot. This is just hype, and there is a strange trend the more "ghetto" your laser cut, 3D printed enclosure looks, the more "authentic street creds" you are supposed to get.But it is all nonsense.The normal way is to buy a ready-made enclosure.Every electronic distributor has a selection. If you can't find what you need from your distributor look at other distributors, check the Internet (eBay, alibaba, etc.), the web pages of enclosure manufacturers (a very small listhttp://www.eevblog.com/wiki/index.php?title=Enclosure_Manufacturers), etc. The list of available pre-made enclosures in all sizes and forms is endless.And now here comes the trickFor one off, prototype, or even small seriesselect the enclosure first, then design the electronics and all components to fit into the enclosure.For whatever reason people again and again make the mistake to first design the PCB and then desperately starting to look for an enclosure.

author: Electronics-Repairman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 09:25:20 am
content: Be Careful,choose wisely, there are salesmen/women everywhere .

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 11:55:38 am
content: I will echo the sentiment here. Get the Hakko FX-888D or the Weller. The direct plug in, single temp firesticks are not suitable. A decent quality soldering with a selection of tips that are well taken care of can last for years. Don't cheap out completely, the frustration level isn't worth it. When I went to ITT Technical Institute, they gave us firesticks in our toolkits. I had it for quite a while. I took on a repair project for my job and convinced SWMBO to let me get something better as it would be a tax write off. I got the Hakko 936 about 6 years ago. I love it. I have 6 different tips for it and it meets all my needs. It's not a Metcal but it doesn't carry the price tag of one. If you are really concerned about quality pieces/parts, shop Digikey or Mouser for your components. More expensive than China/eBay but you get good stuff. You can even pick part manufacturers if you have a preference.

author: electron_misfire
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 12:22:15 pm
content: As for pcb manafacturers, i've only used oshpark and they are very good. Shipping is slow because I live in Australia but if you're in the states ten it's great.I can vouch for element14/newark/farnell, for projects I always get stuff from them.I also have personal experiences for cheap soldering irons; when I started out in electronics I bought a $10 soldering iron. After a month it broke and i bought the exact same iron again. Once again it didnt last very long.

author: Prime73
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 12:44:24 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on July 12, 2014, 07:30:50 amFirst time hear about this "trend". I cut enclosures from acrylic 'cause it's convenient and suites a project (for instance to enclose a prototype).

author: ashiha
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 06:39:51 pm
content: Thank you all so much for your input It has been immensely helpful so far!I took your advice and went ahead and ordered an FX-888D and am excited for its arrival.I still have so many questions, but I know most of them will be answered through the books I'm reading. I'm just excited to get to work on something is all. Are there any DIY kits that you guys could recommend for something somewhat useful just to get me soldering?

author: bwat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 06:54:54 pm
content: Quote from: ashiha on July 12, 2014, 06:39:51 pmSince you're a software type, see if this floats your boat (it's old school bootstrap an 8-bit computer from nothing - check out the PDF to see just how detailed it gets. I loved it!).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/msg470891/#msg470891In a similar vein I see I fancy the look of these (which I've not experience of - they just look like fun):http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sinclair-ZX80-Replica-Kit-/291185421490?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item43cc00ecb2http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jupiter-Ace-Replica-Kit-/291171682152?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item43cb2f4768

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2014, 09:41:46 pm
content: I know you are into software and I don't know your hardware level, so there are some ideas to help you learn hardware but still play with software... Buy an Arduino and pick up this book "Arduino projects for Evil Genius" like this:http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0071817727/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1405200946&sr=8-1There are plenty of books for Arduino with projects and you can learn digital circuits, multiplexing, resistor networks/ladders, transistor switching, analog input, timers, registers, counters, lots of other IC's and more....then you can break out your design to a custom board and mount your own Atmel with your code programmed in it.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 09:02:10 pm
content: I normally get my cases made at Schaeffer for anything that needs to look presentable.