Why I hate Apple (computers) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 11:24:25 pm
content: I know this is probably going to start a miniature war, and there will be people telling me "I did it wrong", but I need to rant.My partner has an older Intel-based MacBook and whilst it doesn't support the current version of macOS, it's still a capable machine for internet browsing and watching the odd movie or two.Anyway, for whatever reason, macOS was struggling. Things took forever to load, it was sluggish, something was not quite right. Probably just full of bloat from years of use. So I thought, let's just backup his shit, format, re-install the OS. Simple enough... right? After copying all his files to a USB drive (because the status of the Apple iCloud sync wasn't clear, there was no simple way to tell whether all his files were uploaded or not, so it was quicker and easier to do it the old fashioned way, rather than risk data loss), I followed the instructions on Apple's website to wipe the disk and re-install the OS. Now, whilst I'm not an "Apple person", I've used them for years and know quite a bit about the hardware and software, but I had the guide open just to make sure I was doing the right thing.I knew erasing the disk was also going to erase the recovery partition, that's fine. Don't really care about that since it can be set up again. Booted back up into the "internet recovery" mode, is where the first hurdle began...apparently, even though macOS and the wireless card in this machine supports WPA3 networks, the built-in firmware doesn't. It sees my network but refuses to connect to it. No reason, just a "nup, can't do it" generic error message. Once I resolved that (by creating and connecting to a WPA2 network), the machine locks up. Reboot and it wants to sign-in using his Apple ID (for reasons unknown), but that didn't work. It just refused to login or connect even though the connection was working and the correct credentials were being offered. No matter, skip that crap for now. It eventually began downloading and installing the OS.Except, that it wasn't the latest supported version of macOS for this machine. Instead, it went and grabbed a copy of macOS X 10 (Yosemite) which is almost 9 years old now. After getting this up and running, I figured I'd check and install updates. A few downloads and reboots later, we were "up to date". Except that we weren't. We were still stuck on OS 10. Even searching the Apple App Store, there was no sign of a later version of macOS. Eventually I found a link on Apple's website in some blog post which manually took me to where the OS update lived, but of course, you can't just download it and run the package... no no no... it forces you to use the App Store.But before you can download anything, you have to sign-in using your Apple ID. After entering in the correct username and password, it claimed the login was incorrect. 45 minutes went by and after lots of swearing and threatening to throw the machine into the bush like a Frisbee, it was by pure chance that I found some obscure instruction which said I needed enter in the password, let the authentication fail, then enter the password againalong withappending the 2FA code to the end. Oddly enough, that worked. Why the hell did I need to play this guessing game? If this was some kind of weird legacy requirement, why not say so in the application itself?Secondly, why not just provide the OS as an ISO image to be installed from a USB drive? Why all this fucking around and signing-in to stupid cloud-based garbage? Too bad if you wanted to use this machine offline. This whole process just re-affirmed three key points:If you're running legacy hardware, you're on your own, good luck.If you don't do things Apple's way, too bad, so sad.The hardware, whilst it may be glorious, is let down by the awful experience of macOS itself.OK rant over.

author: JeremyC
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 12:01:39 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 07, 2023, 11:24:25 pmI suggest to break the relation with Apple. Try zeroing the hard drive and install a free OS like Linux or FreeBSD, btw, MacOS is abbreviated from BDSWell, it may not possible to with newer version (after 2012?) of hardware manufactured by Apple...

author: dobsonr741
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:04:51 am
content: How to create a bootable installer:https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 02:06:05 am
content: Hey I love rants. And Apple computers have been around me since theIIeThank you becauseQuote from: edavid on February 07, 2023, 11:42:42 pmNow I have a new resource for patching older Mac!!!! Specifically a 2011 iMac given to me that Apple auto updated the OS on line and crashed her computer.THANK YOU!!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 07:39:28 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 07, 2023, 11:24:25 pmYup, for me Apple is that way:- the hardware is 1.6x expensive than common PCs- every three/four years you have to buy a new machine- "re-purposing" old Apple hw is an option with GNU/Linux

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 07:43:03 am
content: Quote from: JeremyC on February 08, 2023, 12:01:39 amYup, it's what I do, just ... sometimes you specifically buy apple hardware because you need software available only to apple.(Like, Finalcut on { M1, M2, ... })

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 07:59:44 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 07, 2023, 11:24:25 pmOf course, it's EEVBlog computers forum, everybody will tell you you should have nuked it and installed LinuxEven Fruit Inc is gently hinting at itMyself, I couldn't stand their software at all, whether it's installable or not.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 08:30:57 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 08, 2023, 07:39:28 amJust a single anecdotal data point :My 11 year old iMac and 8 year old MacBookPro disagree with you, as does my Wifes 11 year old iMac.Given what I spent on my iMac back in 2011, and what I just spent putting together a desktop to replace it, I'd say it was pretty price competitive. Likewise, when I replaced my last of many Sony Vaio with the MBP, the price was about the same. The difference is I never got more than 5 years from the Vaios. I don't see the MBP turning up its toes any time soon.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 08:45:25 am
content: I like rants, and of course you were "doing it wrong"I had to do the same over the years and instead of doing things on my own i checked guides, just to be sure. And i'm glad i did (also if you want a specific OSX version you can still download it from the app store, it's just that the page is not public and not reacheable if you don't have the direct link and obviously there are websites that post all links)Quote from: BradC on February 08, 2023, 08:30:57 amMy Mid 2012 also disagrees. Perfect machine to browse and watch movies on. And play music (with actual instruments, that was my workhorse for years, using mainstage. If i resumed playing today i will still use it, upgrading costs too much these days)

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:19:00 am
content: Quote from: BradC on February 08, 2023, 08:30:57 amThings like Finalcut are strictly MacOS-dependent: if you cannot update the OS, then you cannot update the App.So, you buy a new mac. Problem solved, and it's not even that bad because you can gradually writing off the initial cost of an asset if you use it for business.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:27:24 am
content: The real problem is: why the new Final Cut runs 10% slower than the previous version, and why the new MacOS makes the same version of FinalCut running on the same M1-hardware 20% slower than previous OS version?Update FinalCut, same M1 platform, same MacOS: 10% slowersame FinalCut, same M1 platform, update MacOS: 20% slower" 'cause Apple-science "

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:28:41 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 08, 2023, 09:19:00 amOpenCore Legacy Patcher. All macs are running currently supported (Latest-1) operating systems.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:41:26 am
content: Quote from: BradC on February 08, 2023, 09:28:41 amWith Apple "open" is nothing but an euphemism

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 09:44:41 am
content: Anyway, we are talking aboutthis(OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher). I report here for those who want to read and try it.

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 10:47:41 am
content: The advantage of ageing Apple hardware (other than the affordability) is there is a good chance of parts being replaced and/or upgraded by the technically competent. More DDR, an SSD, even a new battery. This is an option for models up to the year 2014, when afterwards, Apple began welding DDR and SSD chipsets directly onto the motherboard - not to mention their glue not screw design philosophy. Regardless of patching up to the latest unsupported OS, or Linux, welded DDR and SSD makes the latest models guaranteed to become paperweights by 2030. Especially for those who could not afford an extra $200 to 'upgrade' their Mac SSD from 128G to 256G at the Apple Store.Anyway, for MacOS dudes playing at home, know your Mac startup and recovery key combinations:https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201255From experience, for recovering an OS over the internet, always use the ethernet cable as the wifi flips off and on in random ways.btw  have you tried resetting the NVRAM?Power-on + Option-Command-P-R

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 11:23:48 am
content: Thanks for all your thoughts and feedback. I did actually try installing the latest version (which is apparently "fully supported" by this machine using OpenCore Legacy Patcher).It mostly works although the screen resolution is stuck at 2560x1600 with no option to change it as the OS identifies the built-in LCD as an "unknown display". Whilst it's fine for my eyes, my partner disagrees. And that's fine. It's his machine, I'm not going to tell him how to live his life.Performance is also quite sluggish (even on 8 GB RAM) but that's probably due to the CPU. Some things tend to glitch or just lock up completely. I'll try macOS 12 and if that fails, roll back to the last officially supported version.For those playing along at home, the machine is a A1534 (MF855LL/A). Last supported macOS version is 11 (Big Sur).

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2023, 11:33:12 am
content: Think different™: develop a lab PSU and make your negative terminals red and positive terminals black and call it an innovation. Then, eventually, admit it wasn't the best idea and make them both white and change the sockets from 4 mm round to 3.7 mm triangular. Sell adapters to 4mm round separately.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 09:42:30 am
content: Anyway, I *HATE* IBM and Microsoft for a lot of reasons, including that crazy "DOS mode" still in Linux utilities (because RedHat wants to support legacy stuff, the wrong way) and keeps partitions aligned on cylinder boundaries , which have been anachronistic since the late 90s.Why would my MIPS-router (which doesn't even have a BIOS) support that crazy wrong shit?!? Why is the firmware expected to work with a PC partition instead of a MacPartition?At least with the PowerMacs Apple has done something better!

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 01:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 09, 2023, 09:42:30 amwhat's that?Quote from: DiTBho on February 09, 2023, 09:42:30 amthis is simply not true, unless you (or your distribution maker) force the partitioning tool to align on cylinder boundaries (in case you need to work with older hardware). default behavior has been to align on megabyte boundaries for a good 10 or 15 years.fdisk hasn't been using CHS addressing either, for a very long time:Code:$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdaDisk /dev/sda: 5.46 TiB, 6001175126016 bytes, 11721045168 sectorsDisk model: ST6000NE000-2KR1Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytesSector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytesI/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytesDisklabel type: gptDisk identifier: F4E06B31-3AC4-AC40-A325-3F2F9280AED2Device Start End Sectors Size Type/dev/sda1 2048 11721045134 11721043087 5.5T Linux filesystemYes, it uses this kibi/mebi/gibi/tebibytes nonsense. The developers fell for this crap unfortunately. Kilobyte is, just like it has always been, 2^10=1024 bytes, this is etched in stone, you cannot simply declare 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes. It's the same as declaring Pi = 3 or tab width = 4 or, god forbid, 2.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 02:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 09, 2023, 09:42:30 amsys-apps/util-linux-v2.17.2 (2009) has that madness thing and I wasted this morning to fix the rootfs of my MIPS router.For many reasons I can't just "update" the whole rootfs, so I prepared a hybrid solution (1) and figured out that somehow the bug was somehow "fixed" probably only after 2011, while it took me only 5 minutes to prepare the patch.And that's even more funny, because mac-part has never had that problem! Not even the 2008 version!So, when I look at computers, I see how much { Microsoft, IBM/Personal Computer division, Intel } have pulled the handbrake on for years, and how much inertia we have in keeping "bugs" (even silly bugs) really fixed.(1) { /sbin/cfdisk, /sbin/sfdisk, /sbin/fdisk} purged from sys-apps/util-linux-v2.17.2, sys-apps/util-linux-v{2.20, 2.24} retro-fitted to portage eabi-2 as "overlay", patched, and re-emerged.(5 minutes to prepare the patch, 3 hours to prepare/test/commit the overlay)Code:# fdisk.old /dev/sdafdisk.original /dev/sdaCommand (m for help): pDisk /dev/sda: 4095 MB, 4095737856 bytes255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 497 cylindersUnits = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytesDevice Boot Start End Blocks Id System/dev/sda1 1 2 8192 27 UnknownPartition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary./dev/sda2 2 18 131072 82 Linux swap / SolarisPartition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary./dev/sda3 18 498 3859456 83 LinuxPartition 3 does not end on cylinder boundary./dev/sda4 1 1 992+ 83 LinuxPartition 4 does not end on cylinder boundary.Partition table entries are not in disk orderCommand (m for help):Code:# fdisk /dev/sdaCommand (m for help): pDisk /dev/sda: 4095 MB, 4095737856 bytes255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 497 cylinders, total 7999488 sectorsUnits = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytesSector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytesI/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytesDisk identifier: 0x4b566c84Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System/dev/sda1 2048 18431 8192 27 RouterBoot Raw/dev/sda2 18432 280575 131072 82 swap/dev/sda3 280576 7999487 3859456 83 unix/dev/sda4 63 2047 992+ 83 unixCommand (m for help):

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 02:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 09, 2023, 02:52:43 pmThat code you reference is nearly 14 years old, and back then the whole "partition alignment" was still a thing. Don't go blaming the tools.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 09:28:44 pm
content: One thing I've always admired about Apple was when they switched the whole shebang to x86. Not so much the decision to do it or whatever. And I realize it wasn't exactly seamless.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on February 09, 2023, 02:59:00 pmQuoteI blame the inertia.The point was/is: at least Apple has less inertia.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:52:44 pm
content: .QuoteNow come on thats not just a mac thing,windows also is guilty of such nonsense.My main machine needs a driver loaded before windows can see the network port,it even helpfully offers to search the internet for a suitable driver,but without a network port there's no internet.Meanwhile linux on the same machine and the network port works straight off ,even with a live cd.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 12:49:59 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on February 09, 2023, 10:52:44 pmThat's very true, it just added to my frustrations. What was more annoying was that the Mac could see the network (and even identified it as a WPA3 network). Why it wouldn't connect is beyond me. Once the OS was loaded, it was fine.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 08:26:45 am
content: You have the same level of frustrationresource successfully probed and initialized ...therefore feasible and potentially already readybut Ops, you cannot use itbecause science** accept it **with Synology-like (Chinese products) running GNU/Linux(embedded)Yup, the kernel can use the volume manager: ohhhh, great!!!Yup, you see two disks in RAID1 as a logical single disk: ohhhh, great!!!Just wait ... I don't see any option to use it in the custom application that comes with the product.What?!? It's already supported by the kernel, so why there isn't any "option" in any application?because science** accept it **Already seen, thousand times in thousand commercial products.(even in Amazon Kindle products)And when the hardware works without too many quirks,... you can write... += your-own firmware,... += your-own application,... += your-own Kernel module,... += ...O'man, perhaps the best trick is to be genetically engineered so you can only sleep 2 hours a day... more hours awake means more time for hacking, more things to hack, more hacks completedMy sweet dreams are made of this, because ...... because it's not just "Apple", it's "all of Computer Science", especially that made for business.When ...engineers have to meet poor commercial deadlines -> they don't have time to deal with all the miscellaneous features/optionsengineers have to obey the constraints imposed by the commercial division -> they are forced to "IGNORE" unpaid features/options, so consumers will pay for upgrades/new products that are the same as the current product with just more features/options on the side firmware/software

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 02:13:35 pm
content: I remember something like this happening to someone and it turned out to be a search indexer called Spotlight.https://www.technipages.com/macos-sierra-enable-disable-spotlightAfter I unticked the stuff to index it it was lovely and quick.They did have an SSD installed a couple of years before that.Quote from: Halcyon on February 07, 2023, 11:24:25 pm*They use to ten year ago at some point and I had one automatically install when it was cabled up.In 2012 or 13? I was given a Macbook that had a failing drive. I was given some CD's to reinstall it. I put a new drive in, it was all connected up and soon as I switched it on a setup started without putting the CD in (first with this fancy animated colourful strings across the middle of the screen) I wondering what's going on here. Is there some kind of flash storage installed with a recovery on there, an option on a mini pci card I think I read about being available at the time of the Duo cores but never seen them.No, I saw the light flash the on the network switch and can see traffic going to it. I had a network cable plugged into it.It installed it and then required a key or some number which the customer sorted out.I took out the drive and put blank one in and then I can see it briefly looking for a DHCP address and yes it was set to get the recovery image directly from the Apple's web storage which I thought was very nice as a recovery option.So easy and that was before it was called cloud.Joke: all before they started insulting the consumer with it.Years after that, another customer was complaining that their mac wouldn't update for some reason. I can't remember all the details but apparently when I did my checking it mention that the version was no longer supported and to just download an ISO image, copy to CD to reinstall. I remember the words "Snow Leopard and "EL Capitan".

author: TomKatt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 01:17:39 pm
content: I know there is a 'Apple Tax' on their products, but even as a WinTel pc guy I do like their hardware. Their mobile products "just work" with minimal fuss and I tweak enough gear throughout the week to also spend time setting up various flavors of Android settings.I've got an old mid 2015 Macbook Pro and it's still surprisingly useful. I think few PC based laptops would have survived in as good condition (including the battery), most likely because most PC gear is built down to a cost, where you're paying upfront for a bit more quality with Apple. I did the wipe and OS reload thing with and don't recall too much fuss getting the downloads.As for the cloud vs physical media for OS images, I think there's something to be said for the security that provides and you can be more certain that your OS image doesn't contain any 'rogue' instructions buried deep down. Likewise, I feel apps from the Apple Store are more secure than those from Google Play (or worse yet, sideloaded).