Tronstol E4 high precision pick and place(SMT)machine-8 head  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 09:37:10 am
content: The link of Tronstol E4:https://youtu.be/fBYNy7gVhmQAfter more than 10 years of technological accumulation(we are the original team from Neoden), Tronstol E4 is a high-end version of Tronstol E1. We have always focused on R&D and innovation in the field of SMT. Precision meets efficiency with our intelligent pick and place machine Tronstol E4, revolutionizing assembly with cutting-edge technology.New intelligent feeder system with our unique library database makes placement so easy.Here are some details of E4:For the hardware:1.Through the combination of screw drive and servo motor, precise motion control and quick response are achieved;2.The grating ruler motion system can feedback position information in real time to ensure the accurate positioning of the placement head in three-dimensional space.3.The motion control system installed on the one-piece square steel frame ensures the stability of placement and the durability of the machine.4.The three-section track allows the placement machine to handle multiple circuit boards simultaneously. This increases the overall efficiency of the machine, reduces idle time and increases output. The track uses an electric top plate: driven by an electric motor, the movement position and speed of the top plate can be precisely controlled.5.The new patented intelligent feederhas its own memory function. Each feeder is locked to a material. After the feeder is disassembled and replaced, it can be used without editing. It is highly convenient and intelligent.6.The vision system uses 4 CCD laser flying cameras and 1 Mark camera to achieve shooting while walking, high-speed positioning, and high-precision identification. When combined with a dark vision HD camera adapted to low-light environments, the E4 is suitable for a variety of application scenarios for complex surface mounting.7.It can support standard tap&reels, standard IC trays, short tape trays, vibration feeders and bulk materials.With the auto nozzle changer 8 different models of nozzles can be used together.0201,BGA,TQFP can be mounted.For the software:1. Friendly user interface design, convenient for customers to use.2.Material and feeder library: the same component does not need to be edited if you change different PCB.It really reduce the time to install the tape&reel and edit the stack information.You only need edit once for the pick height,pick delay...this function can really save your time.The function of the material library saves the time of repeated editing of materials. After optimizing the material library, it can realize direct posting without editing.3.Offline software:you can edit you file in your computer.It will not occupy the machine.4.The self-designed software has powerful functions, high flexibility, and real-time updates and iterations.5. It supports simultaneous use of tape, tube, short, IC tray, and bulk materials, especially the bulk material function, which allows customization of bulk material templates for various sizes, shapes, and types of components.And if you want to mount bulk material automatically,you can update E1 plus which has the vibration feeder tray.6. Automatic correction of picking position,it help you edit the file more quickly.7.Flexibility in Mark selection:You can use none mark,one mark,two marks or any quantities of marks8. Visualization of each hardware communication node makes maintenance and debugging easy...

author: lundmar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 12:20:13 pm
content: Looks like a nice machine!Does it support software upgrades without us having to go buy new controller boards etc?How much does the machine and feeders cost?I can't find any information about the E4 on your website?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 01:04:15 pm
content: 1.Yes,it can support online or offline:Online need contact the Wi-Fi and update from our "update software" directly.Offline is copy the software to the U disk,and update it directly.You don't need buy any other boards.2.Could you send me your email,I'll send you the quotation list.3.The website will update in this week.Due to this machine we sold it in China first.It already in the Market more than three years.We updated the hardware many times,it's stable and reliable now.And some of our Europe's customers also have been using it to production.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 01:14:31 pm
content: This is my email address:jemma.zhang@tronstol.com,you can contact me directly.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 01:44:47 am
content: The website is ready:https://www.tronstol.com/pick-and-place-machine/pick-and-place-machine-tronstol-e4.html,please check it

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 10:49:23 am
content: What makes it a an advanced E1 and not an updated A1 to which it seems far more similar?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 11:40:30 am
content: Maybe the appearance of E4 looks like the A1,but the "soul" is total different.The appearance of A1 is beautiful,so we still use the similar appearance.All the hardware and software are total different than A1.But some useful functions,we still use it,such as the picking position can align directly from "one click".Our database is based on E1,we called it "Easy" series.So this is the advanced of E1,all of our E1 customers can easy to operate E4.1.A1 use Raspberry Pi,E4 use PLC;2.A1 use belt for motion control system,E4 use guiding screws;3.There are so many different control board for A1,E4 integrated al the board on one main board makes every node more clearly;4.We designed new patent electric feeder which has the ID function;5.The most different is the software,E4 have powerful functions on software,due to most of the functions already are used on E1 before.After we updated the CCD flying camera on E4,some functions of the software is also updated.For example:(1)you can make the bulk material's model by yourself;(2)you can update the software online;(3)you can choose any type and number of the fiducials;(4)After the mounting is finished,if you missed one component,you can feeding it directly;(5).If the mounting is stopped suddenly,you can start where it is stopped...The most important thing is our R&D team is focus on development which makes our software more friendly to users especially saving the time to edit a new file.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 12:00:27 pm
content: Hi Alex,I saw your message about Tronstol E4.Due to you didn't login in.I can't reply here directly,Could you send me a message by email:jemma.zhang@tronstol.com.Thank you so much

author: Felix235
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 21, 2024, 06:41:26 pm
content: I bought the Tronstol E4 and have been using it for a few months now. I have already assembled over 1000 PCBs with it.What I really like about the machine is that it is very reliable and precise. 0402 is no problem.For larger components, that are supplied in a 12 or 16 mm strip, I had to increase the motor power of the feeders to make them work reliably. I also had to lower the exposure of the camera looking up so that only the silver contacts of the components were captured and the black housing was reliably not captured. I have found a value that fits all the components I use, and now it works reliably.Another advantage of the machine is its low weight of only approx. 200 kg. This makes it easy to operate on the upper floor.However, it does start to wobble a little if you run it at high speed. I usually work at 50%.If only components are placed that are aligned with the Laser Flying Vision, the machine manages approx. 3600 components per hour at 50%.If you place the feeders correctly and sort the order of the components in the file correctly, this increases the speed.The component library and the smart feeders are useful if you use the same components over and over again on different boards.What is really very good is the technical support from Jemma. I received quick support from her several times.Now to the disadvantages:- The delivery time was far too long. Including 2 months transportation I had to wait almost half a year. (I am still waiting for 2 pcs. 24mm feeders)- There are only feeders available for narrow tapes (8, 12 and 16mm). I can't say yet whether I'll get the 24mm feeders I orderedI was able to convert a few feeders to 24 and 32mm myself with the 3D printer so that I can use them to assemble my circuit boards.- Unfortunately, the machine only has 38 slots for feeders (8, 12 or 16mm) plus a tray. If the upward-facing camera is not needed, there are 4 more slots. From 24mm the feeder needs 2 slots.All in all, I can currently work well with the machine.Nevertheless, I hope that Tronstol will make further software updates available.It would be helpful, for example, if the machine could calculate an optimal sorting of components and feeders.Or the option of being able to set a camera exposure value or threshold value individually for each component.This machine is very well suited for prototypes and small series and is not very expensive!Perhaps there are other people who can share their experiences.

author: pastaclub
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2024, 05:18:06 pm
content: Quote from: lundmar on July 10, 2024, 12:20:13 pmIs this a secret?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2024, 02:10:00 am
content: The individual communication via email allows me to better understand your needs and provide you with better quality service. If you want to learn more about pricing information, you can also consult me directly. I'm willing to provide you with comprehensive answers and services :)This is my email:jemma.zhang@tronstol.com

author: Aspartame
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2024, 02:16:28 pm
content: This looks like the obsolete Neoden s1, do you know why it failed?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2024, 03:32:46 am
content: Tronstol E4 is total different than Tronstol A1(which is called Neoden S1 before).In fact, Tronstol A1 was a hot sale product in the market, especially in the US market.When it was first launched on the market, it was not very stable. After the subsequent hardware iterations, customers love it very much especially in office use scenarios.Our company continues to improve technology and process.Here are some different of the hardware,see the attachment.Our machine's biggest advantage is our unique intelligent software.I'll share it later

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2024, 08:15:08 am
content: Since many customers asked what is the difference between Tronstol E4 PNP machine and Neoden S1 (Tronstol A1) PNP machine , we made a video to help you learn more:https://youtu.be/sbqdEIBGWNA

author: Aspartame
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2024, 04:06:35 pm
content: The specs look ok, but the proprietary feeders are the major issue. The number of feeders are very low, but this is not a major issue considering a prototype machine. I would advise to buy this machine only if the machine comes with at least 50 free feeders.

author: lundmar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2024, 12:41:42 pm
content: Quote from: Aspartame on August 02, 2024, 04:06:35 pmI don't mind the proprietary feeders, especially if they work smarter and better and at a fair price.I know the prices on the E4 from Tronstol. However, I recommend that Tronstol make their product prices (MSRP, manufacturer's suggested retail price) public.This whole business of keeping product prices secret is silly to me. If you have secret prices you have secret products. If you want to sell more you need to put the MSRP prices out there.

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2024, 06:29:36 am
content: When I met the 4 founding members of Neoden long long time ago, I knew one of them were different (he was working on Neoden 4 back then). He just had that air of wanting to do things differently, while the others were more keen of let's get Neoden big just like other existing Chinese PNP companies. So you can see today Neoden machine are pretty much similar like other Chinese PNP (runs on Windows, CL & NXT feeders, similar ball screw setup, etc) yet still inferior. While Tronstol wanted to be like your Chinese version of Essemtec. I don't really know how Tronstol came about from Neoden but in a way, it's much better as now both companies has own distinct identity in terms of how their machine are designed. In terms of pricing, I think Tronstol is not on Alibaba and Aliexpress, so price is not known to public. Just slap a price on their own website would be great. If people can afford, people contact you. If can't, they move along.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2024, 06:57:21 am
content: Yes，bringing the greatest value to customers is our eternal goal.During the PCB production process, we need a lot of time to install the tape&reel and edit the materials.For customers who often need to change new PCBs, frequent editing work is too inefficient.We are always thinking about:1. how to install tape&reel faster：our new feeder is easy to operate the tape&reel without any power supply.2. how to solve the problem of duplicate editing:The "library function" solves the problem.For the same material we only need edit once,you can use the data directly in your next new work file.3.How to improve the accuracy: Only we have this independent technology of grating ruler + servo motor closed loop system solution...More than 80% of E1's customers have made repeat purchases, and many of them are directly engaged in mass production.We learned from our previous R&D experience at Neoden, and after becoming independent from Neoden, we had complete autonomy. E4 is built on the software basis of E1, and its hardware performance is much higher than E1. Equipped with intelligent feeder, programming becomes easier.For the software:1.We choose Linux system, which is open source and has strong support for third-party libraries. It is safe and convenient for network interconnection. It is ready for the extension of other network functions.2.Tronstol E4 uses a new self-designed parallel action scheduling framework at the bottom layer, with a large framework and multi-module bottom layer design. It supports function superposition, so function iteration is more convenient. When designing Neoden S1, our software technology was not as mature as it is now. When customers need to add a certain software operation function, we need to break the underlying software architecture before updating, which greatly increases our R&D costs.3.Service delegation mode, function delegation, and plug-in module management also make E4's software functions more powerful. Tronstol E4 is built using a multi-technology platform: qml python c++ sql language, etc. It also uses front-end technology support such as HTML, JavaScript,VUE&etc.4.Its professional image processing software algorithm is also the key to improving mounting accuracy and supporting various types of bulk mounting.5.The design of Canbus makes the functional nodes of the hardware visible, which allows customers to check the mechanical status more intuitively, which is of great help in after-sales troubleshooting.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2024, 09:48:31 am
content: Many customers ask the video of Dual-TronStol A58 PNP machines direct connectionhttps://youtu.be/pzGAVxbDF80: Tronstol A58 two machines directly connected to meet the needs of production customers.High Speed 4 heads machine small size can meets your different kinds of production.This is our customer's production site.He has over 58 types of materials, so he used 2 A58s and connected them directly through suspension rail for efficient production.

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2024, 09:26:08 pm
content: What exactly is patented in the new feeders? I can't find a video of the way the tape is loaded to the feeder, so we can se if it's quick and easy. Also how feeders are loade to the machine.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2024, 03:21:48 am
content: This Intelligent feeder is developed and produced by Tronstol. Intelligent means that each feeder has its own ID address. Once it is bound to the material, you don't need to edit the material parameters when mounting another new PCB if all your materials are edited and store in the library before. All material data such as pick height,pick delay,pick speed,the size of X,Y and etc are directly bound to the feeder. You can check this video:https://youtu.be/23TvYdLZfCIIt is so easy to install the tape&reel without power supply. And it is also convenience to install or remove the feeder from the feeder bank.The dimension sizes is small which will not occupy the room. You can check this video:https://youtu.be/FRVG2ue50DYThis is the electric feeder which will not course the noise.And you also don't need extra air source.The most important thing is that its price is lower than the common electric feeders on the market.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2024, 10:10:24 am
content: Quote from: Jemma.zhang on September 04, 2024, 03:21:48 amWhy not bind the feeder pitch to the component library too? On Essemtec if you have multiple pitch options for a single library part you choose which one you are using in the software when you load the part to the feeder. This is sometimes needed for things like 2512 resistors which can be 8mm or 4mm pitch depending on manufacturer and 0603 caps which are almost always 4mm pitch except that very rare occasion when its 2mm. This puts a prompt and therefore a reminder to the operator to check this metric, requiring them to enter it on a feeder control is a step they might otherwise miss.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2024, 02:13:23 am
content: Our Trosntol A1 (Neoden S1) feeders and software have such functions; each feeder has a communication node, but the cost will increase a lot. Our factory default setting pitch is 4mm. Customers will use“picking test” to check the material's setting when editing files. If the pitch is wrong, the component cannot be picked correctly. Customers can easily find this problem and solve it. After all, most feeder pitch is 4mm, so it will not take so much time to change the data.We just want to save the cost for our customers.

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2024, 09:25:29 pm
content: Perhaps feeder ID adress is new for Neoden/Tronstol, but other manufacturers use it for at least 15 years so it can't be patented. So what is patented in the new feeders?Also it's a bit weird that so many settings are related to a "material" (I guess that's what I'd call a "part number"). I'd expect this to be related to a package, for example 0603 resistor should have the same settings regardless of its resistance (1k, 10k, etc)?Thanks for the video showing how the tape is loaded to the feeder, looks quick and easy indeed. Shame you can't reveal feeder price.I've noticed another strange thing. Looks like components are picked on by one, I think you could achieve even higher speed by picking them up with all heads simultaneously?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2024, 03:27:13 am
content: Thanks for your feedback.Perhaps feeder ID adress is new for Neoden/Tronstol, but other manufacturers use it for at least 15 years so it can't be patented. So what is patented in the new feeders?-Yes,some misunderstanding.I'm talking about feeder, which we developed ourselves and applied for a patent for the feeding design structure.ID just one of its function.Also it's a bit weird that so many settings are related to a "material" (I guess that's what I'd call a "part number"). I'd expect this to be related to a package, for example 0603 resistor should have the same settings regardless of its resistance (1k, 10k, etc)?-Wow,it's really a good idea.Thank you very much for your suggestions. We are always improving and upgrading based on customer feedback.Could you tell me in detail which method is more convenient to use?Did you use this similar function before,for which PNP machine and which feeder？At the beginning, our R&D purpose was to allow customers to reduce the time spent editing materials when mounting new files.And when you want to swap or replace the feeders,you don't need edit the material information,such as pick delay,pick speed and etc.Since the material information has been bound to feeder.Of course, we also consider the situation that customers use 2 or more E4 PNP machines directly connected. When customers mount different boards, achieving “”Zero“ material editing is our goal.This is very efficient for prototypes and small PCB assembly. How to make the functions more user-friendly and convenient to use is what we have been thinking about.This is my email address:jemma.zhang@tronstol.com.Just free tall to me if you have any good suggestions.We also hope that customers can get more satisfactory products at the lowest cost.Thanks for the video showing how the tape is loaded to the feeder, looks quick and easy indeed. Shame you can't reveal feeder price.-The price is USD109 for 8mm feeder.I've noticed another strange thing. Looks like components are picked on by one, I think you could achieve even higher speed by picking them up with all heads simultaneously?-Yes,we'll make a video to mounting the IPC9850 for 0603 with 4 heads together.It may show you in next week.

author: meshtron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2024, 09:41:58 pm
content: Finally got to watch the video on this today - looks like a really nice machine.I own another brand Chinese PnP that does okay for what I need for now, but we'll outgrow it soon-ish and the software is.... Challenging. This seems like the right kind of step up in functionality and - critically - software approach. I appreciate the CAN-bus communication network, the level of customization and (whether or not it's a gimmick vs big-name machines) the idea of each feeder being a data entity to which I can attach part and config data makes a lot of sense vs what I have now. Flying cameras are a nice addition too vs what I've got today.0402 is about as small as I'll ever need to place and I also appreciate the flexibility with various kinds of feeders having been given good consideration.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 02:22:51 am
content: This is the video show you 4 heads mount IPC9850 0603 PCB:https://youtu.be/zfcZqMhj8C0Also it's a bit weird that so many settings are related to a "material" (I guess that's what I'd call a "part number"). I'd expect this to be related to a package, for example 0603 resistor should have the same settings regardless of its resistance (1k, 10k, etc)?-I discussed with our R&D team about your feedback.We'll update the setting of ID feeder.The step of locking the material with the ID feeder will reduced. When you use the feeder for the first time,you need choose feeder's stack,the ID feeder will lock the material automatically in this step together.When you mount another new PCB,if you need use the same feeder again,you don't need do any operation.The machine will automatically recognize which stack install which material.There is no end to the upgrade. We will continuously improve the software functions based on customer feedback

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2024, 05:51:17 am
content: Quote from: meshtron on September 12, 2024, 09:41:58 pmThanks for your review.We use customer-centricity to create products.Let me explain more about our CAN-bus:The CAN- bus can see the nodes through the "bootloader". Different nodes will leave the network when unplugged. This is the characteristic of the network. Through this network concept, node offline alarm, firmware version query and firmware upgrade functions can be realized. The sensor page of the PNP manual interface has node online notification. In this interface, unplug some nodes to see feedback. In particular, the front ,rear feeder bank and mounting heads can be checked.You are definitely correct to know the feeder. It is very flexible software and hardware. Our feeder bank is detachable, so you can manage not only the feeder but also the feeder bank according to different PCBs.If you need any support in the future,you can let know

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2024, 10:18:59 pm
content: Quote from: Jemma.zhang on September 07, 2024, 03:27:13 amWhere did you applied for this patent? China, US, Europe? What is so innovative in this "feeding design"? Looking at the videos it seems to be pretty standard.I don't know why you're boasting so much about this unimportant for the customer thing that feeder is patented (when in fact it isn't), if you have a much better argument: feeder price.Could you please explain a bit more about footprint settings: size, thickness, deviation, nozzle, alignment method is quite obvious, but there are some other settings and I haven't seen explanation of the other options in the videos.

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 02:44:05 am
content: We are making the video to explain the setting,when it is ready,I'll show you

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2024, 09:00:48 pm
content: Are you still making the video?

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2024, 12:50:05 am
content: Yes,of course.Due to we are in the National holidays,the video will be ready after the holiday

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2024, 09:26:10 am
content: Quote from: jayx on October 02, 2024, 09:00:48 pmThe video is ready,please check it.This video is showing you the material setting for Tronstol E4 PNP machine:https://youtu.be/_ZhORD_l4mU

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2024, 03:05:06 am
content: Welcome to our booth.C6.669 Electronica 2024,November 12-15,2024.Location:Trade Fair Center Messe Munchen Am Messesee 2,81829 Munich

author: Jemma.zhang
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2025, 02:38:44 am
content: This is the link how to set bulk materials:https://youtu.be/N_ypzPYtJP8?si=QG9yT3-V4vT_6ND5