Cross Road Future Decisions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kyle.tricarico
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 18, 2021, 08:06:02 am
content: Hey everyone!New to the forum!I’ve been directed here for some advice on what to potentially do moving forward with my career in electronics.I’m currently studying an Advanced Diploma in Electronics and Communications engineering. I’m finding it difficult to learn electronics through this way, as I’ve always done my own research and learnt more independently.This course will be done by the end of next year. With the option to move into a bachelor degree, which will be another 2 1/2 years, I’m unsure about whether it would be better to use that 2 1/2 years to gain industry experience, and make a start with me electronics career instead.My question is: should I move into the industry after this advanced diploma, knowing I’ll get into a lower paying job, but gain industry experience earlier than others that continue on to do the bachelor.ORDo I continue on to do the bachelor, get into a higher paying job, and start moving forward with my career then, even though I’m finding the course difficult to follow.Obviously this is a personal decision to make, but it would be great to hear some other experiences on the matter, maybe someone who has been in the same boat.Thanks heaps!Kyle.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 02:24:58 am
content: Be aware that generally, a Bachelor's Degree used to lead you to a management position. There are few R&D technical roles in Australia and given the current state of the world, I'm not sure if you want to plan on looking OS for R&D work.If you are a hands-on person, my first impression is to point you at industry after getting your diploma to get some experience - this is worth far more in job security.On the other hand, we have call center roles here being filled by engineers with Masters degrees because there is nowhere else and stupid managers and recruiters taking them, not due to skill but because they think they're getting a 'bargain', never mind that they are completely unsuited for the role.B.Eng is full of more maths and physics at a theoretical level, less hands-on, which may not be your 'thing' - then there is the consequential HECs debt to consider.Build your practical skillset, try and identify a long-term niche in electronics/technology, and aim there. If, after a few years, you find the degree appealing, go for it.This is just my personal opinion and you probably should seek wide-ranging advice to make your final decision.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 02:49:25 pm
content: I'm coming from the R&D side of things here is USA. If you were here I would recommend staying in school as long as you can and pursue the most advanced degree you can attain. Once you leave school the likelihood of returning to extend your education is slim. You can always learn "hands on" later, but the deep thinking and understanding may not be as easy without the discipline of school.In any case as I've advised all the grad students when I was an adjunct prof, find something you really like, as you'll likely not be that good at something you don't like! If later in life you find that you don't like what you are doing, then move on to something you really like. I've been lucky, since I was 8 I've always known what I wanted to do, and still doing it almost 70 years laterGood luckBest,

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 06:09:11 pm
content: I failed engineering in uni on 1st try straight out of highschool. A couple years later, I did 2 year technologist diploma and got B's, worked for 6 years after that and then went back to uni for 3 year engineering degree where I got straight A's with full course load despite having to relearn math at the start of it. Don't let grades discourage you, worst case, you take a reduced course load and take 4 years instead of 2.5 years. It's all about having the right mindset to dedicate enough time and concentration to it. My first try at uni, I wasn't interested, would read stuff over and over and it would not sink in so I'd go party instead. My 2nd try, I was into it, I was familiar with the applications for it and it was way easier.I learned more applicable knowledge for my jobs as HW/FW designer in 2 years of college than I did in 3 years of uni but I get more job offers and slightly better pay after the 3 years of uni.Working as a tech or trying to be an entrepreneur for a bit before getting the degree is fine. You get an idea what the jobs are like before you commit 2.5+ more years to schooling. If you do return to school, your experience will make school more enjoyable and more useful and it'll give you a leg up on your classmates when you are competing for jobs. It also gives you a chance to save up some money and live more comfortably during uni.I finished uni about 5 years ago. If I could start over, I think I would have been better off if I focused on home renos or trying to make and sell something simple instead of going back to uni. Uni made my life as an employee better but life as an employee isn't great and as inflation continually outpaces wages, I don't think it's getting better. I think despite getting great performance reviews and moderate raises, I'm essentially getting a pay cut every year until I quit my job and make my own money selling electronics or houses and my time in uni doesn't help with either of those.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 06:37:11 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on October 19, 2021, 02:49:25 pmI agree with this. A bachelor's degree (or even higher) means you have been taught analysis methods and math. Without those tools you won't be able to tackle more complicated problems. Not saying everyone with a bachelor's degree is a genius (far from it) but I have met several smart people that would have been so much better at their engineering jobs if they had completed a formal education at a university.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 07:14:24 pm
content: A BS is kind of a binary thing: You either have one and you are considered a graduate engineer, or you don't and you aren't.OTOH, I'm not sure a BSEE is worthwhile. Heresy, I know, but when I look at the job increases in the US for Electrical Engineers (includes all kinds of EEs including power systems) the growth rate sucks.https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htmSoftware Developers have better opportunitieshttps://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htmOn those pages, you can drill down by area and see wages by area - Silicon Valley pays very well but it's expensive to live there.With all the emphasis on Machine Learning, I would think that a strong background in Linear Algebra plus software development skill would be ideal.I'm also of the opinion that BSs are pretty common. If you want to stand out, think in terms of a Master's.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 07:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on October 19, 2021, 07:14:24 pmI'm seeing that here too. I'm seeing a lot of job ads in BC Canada for SW and barely any for HW. Some, probably not all, but some of the SW employers just want some SW courses, they don't care about degrees.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 07:50:05 pm
content: You should probably think about learning the 'hands on' stuff on your own.Buy some lab equipment (scope, signal generator, power supply) and a bunch of parts. Demonstrate and document the circuits you learn in class. I have a lot of fun with my Analog Discovery 2 and a simple 0.1 ufd ceramic capacitor and a 10k resistor. I can do a Bode' plot of the frequency domain and a conventional V/t plot in the time domain.The AD2 will also let me do FFTs and I can create the signals with the internal AWGs. Details of tool elsewhere...The AD2 is truly a lab in a backpack. My favorite tool.Buy an Arduino Starter Kit and do all of the experiments. You will gain a lot of experience with embedded programming in the ARduino domain and that won't be highly regarded. But it's a start!Buy a Raspberry Pi Starter Kit and do all the experiments. They are nearly identical to the Aduino experiments but in this case all of the development is done on the Pi itself. BTW, the AD2 will run on the Pi so you can use the same system to develop, view and run the code. Very handy. You will also become competent with Linux.Buy a STM32F Nucleo board (pick one) and get FreeRTOS running with a bunch of tasks. Code up interrupt handlers for the various peripherals and communicate to tasks with semaphores or queues. Get a complex system doing something that can be the object of 'show and tell'. Maybe bring up FatFS (a file system, SD cards are interchangeable with Windows and Linux) and do some kind of interrupt driven data logging from the ADCs. The STM32CubeIDE does a fine job of providing template code. You will learn a lot about the C language.Get an FPGA board and code up some kind of system. I would recommend doing a CPU design (it can be your own design or any of the RISC based CPUs). Get it running some kind of OS loaded from the SD card. You will learn some serious HDL skills along with deeply embedded code.Side issue: On the Pi, install Python and all of the extra libraries for Machine Learning. Buy some books, follow along. The whole deal behind ML is matrix algebra. Pretty simple math but a LOT of it.Extra credit: Think about the NVIDIA Jetson Nano for Machine Learning projects and parallel programming. Basically, the Nano has 128 CUDA cores so can execute 128 threads in parallel. The larger video cards have over 10,000 cores. We're talking multiple teraflops of compute power. We got to the Moon with 2 megaflop machines. The Nano also runs LinuxThe Coral Dev Board is similar and is a Google offering. I think the NVIDIA options are faster on the high end graphic boards but both have a ton of tutorials aimed at ML.All the big kids are playing with ML. It's time to get on board.At some point you will want to move the ML stuff to MATLAB with the Deep Learning and Parallel Computing add-ons. Every engineer needs to be proficient with MATLAB.That list ought to take a while!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2021, 08:11:42 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on October 19, 2021, 02:24:58 amNot entirely a bad thing! In nearly 40 years of working, I did precious little actual engineering. I did project management and I bought engineering.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2021, 04:26:35 pm
content: Quote from: aargee on October 19, 2021, 02:24:58 amIMHO that is a generalization. In the end it depends on the person whether someone gets a management position or not. Lots of people choose to keep working on projects and end up in a coaching role learning less experienced engineers the tricks of the trade. Lots of others end up in 'parked until retirement' jobs as well. In the end the number of managers needed is limited.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2021, 11:02:38 am
content: Actually, i stand by my comments here in Australia. Quoting outlooks for jobs in North America or Europe is quite a different thing. Our market is extremely small for R&D engineers in the electronics field, if the intention is to go abroad, then sure go for a Degree, Masters or PHD.

author: Slh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2021, 08:05:15 am
content: My feeling would be that having bachelor's makes one a better engineer as it will introduce you to a lot of concepts and things that you won't need immediately but may find useful later in your career. That's not to say that you shouldn't do the practical stuff as well. Engineers who leave uni having never done anything practical on their own tend to be a little disappointing.If you're just planning to do small Arduino type control boards then maybe it's not necessary but as soon as stuff starts to get more complicated then then the extra maths, analysis and sometimes concepts from completely different fields will be invaluable. Also, Arduino type control boards aren't going to last forever so having the degree gives you more options.My degree had two years of general engineering. Everyone had to do maths, linear circuits, electromagnetism, structures, mechanics, thermal, materials and a bunch of others. I didn't enjoy doing all of them but I'm grateful that I did as i often need to work with engineers from other disciplines and it makes things better being able to talk their language. You'll probably find that no one wants to buy a PCB. It always needs a mechanical case, possibly some thermal modelling and nowadays some software. Also you often find people who think that because they can drive Solidworks that makes an mechanical engineer. If you work in small companies being able to correct and guide people like that is essential if you want to get a good product. Sometimes you find that customers have unrealistic expectations of mechanical or thermal problems and being able to demonstrate why this is an issue is an invaluable skill.