Amazon fire stick - has GPS?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: thefatmoop
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 09:30:01 pm
content: FireStick 4k - Just purchased for the bedroom and popped it open because it's surprisingly heavy. I was greeted by what i'd say is a GPS antenna. Must be amazon's answer to VPNs region lock bypass / account sharing.Normally wouldn't think much of it, but dang that's dystopian.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 09:41:31 pm
content: Why would they put GPS in a device generally installed deep inside a building where GPS seldom works?

author: thefatmoop
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 09:44:11 pm
content: I'm struggling to find a datasheet for the antenna. I'm 20% of an antenna expert - i'd say that's not a wifi antenna. That's a GPS/GNSS antenna

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 10:10:55 pm
content: Quote from: thefatmoop on July 14, 2023, 09:44:11 pmSo where is the wifi antenna? Why assume a gps one when there isnt a wifi one there.Looking up the first few digits and antenna showed me images of the unit.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 10:23:14 pm
content: The older versions used two separate antennas in the same form factor. And that was clearly for Wi-Fi.While GPS antennas generally look like this, it is possible that Wi-Fi/ BT antennas are implemented in the same form factor.

author: Shonky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 10:27:28 pm
content: It's the WiFi antenna. Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 10:34:39 pm
content: GPS in a device like this doesn't make sense because Amazon already knows where you live, you probably shipped the stick there and order other stuff all the time...Just think about it. It's a high gain Wi-Fi antenna - probably designed to maximise the gain pointing away from the typically metal chassis of the TV. 4K video requires 15Mbit/s min data rate, so they need a good antenna solution to ensure even in suboptimal locations they can stream 4K video.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2023, 10:39:29 pm
content: https://fccid.io/2AYZN-5272It's just one of the wifi antennas, kids.And yes, Amazon file these things through shells to stop people finding them.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 02:09:46 am
content: I'm not surprised OP thought what he did; WiFi antennas are usually of the whip type, if they're even visible (most of the time they're just a PCB trace), and the high-gain ceramic square type is more commonly used for GPS.Quote from: Monkeh on July 14, 2023, 10:39:29 pmIronic that there's a "Purchase on Amazon" link there... which doesn't find it.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 02:50:39 am
content: Quote from: Shonky on July 14, 2023, 10:27:28 pmPattern recognition.Consider it a device audit.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 03:45:20 am
content: So much for truth in advertising. A product sold as a "fire stick" that can't even melt solder!

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 05:09:52 pm
content: Reply #10, I'm sure they'll bring out a version powered by an internal LiPo someday, then there will be cases of it inevitably living up to its name.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 05:21:01 pm
content: Quote from: Shonky on July 14, 2023, 10:27:28 pmThat's just what they want you to think.

author: isometrik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 06:19:06 pm
content: A quick search on DigiKey shows that Bluetooth+WiFi ceramic patch antenna are a thing:https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/rf-antennas/875?s=N4IgjCBcoJwGwFYqgMZQGYEMA2BnApgDQgD2UA2iAMwBMAHDFXCALrEAOALlCAMqcAnAJYA7AOYgAvsTB06VZCDSQseIqQoh6cOgAYFxbXojFaugOwIT1GhboAWVh26Q%2Bg0RMnStmzCM74IiKYrJJAA

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:02:07 pm
content: The reasoning of OP makes sense in the light of the latest Netflix changes.What those streaming services don't want is people sharing their account with friends.One way to verify this is to determine the location of the client hardware. Fitting a GPS receiver is cheap and would provide excellent location data.However, this would not work for lack of reception, as already mentioned.But the location can be determined through WIFI network recognition, too, though not as accurately.Anyway, when I read the starting post, I was wondering that a GPS was indeed the case until I thought about reception. This means we are closer to this dystopian future than we might think.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:05:27 pm
content: Some recent GPS receivers with appropriate antennas work remarkably well indoors, at least in a house or small building.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:13:53 pm
content: They don't really need a GPS to know exactly where the firestick is:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:19:51 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on July 15, 2023, 09:13:53 pmThat only works with public hotspots. How many firesticks are connected to one of those?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:26:54 pm
content: No, this uses all nearby network names. It does not need to be connected to one.The stick itself can scan all the network names and determine location based on that very accurately provided you are not in the middle of nowhere where there are no other networks.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 10:18:34 pm
content: Seems like it would be possible to program an ESP32 to spoof any location you want?

author: Shonky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 10:34:40 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on July 15, 2023, 09:19:51 pmNot at all correct. Many home WiFi hotspots are recorded by MAC address with their (approximate) location. So all a device needs to do is see one hotspot (public or private) and you can get a location within 50m or so. Add a couple of neighbours and you can get quite a good location.The device doesn't even need to connect. It's enough to see the broadcast SSID advertising to see that MAC address.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 10:39:45 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 15, 2023, 10:18:34 pmThey use summary of all the networks. You can add your own matching some other location, but you can't subtract your neighbor's networks.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 10:56:35 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on July 15, 2023, 10:39:45 pmOne could generate some interference (with NRF24L01 or similar) to block out the neighbor's networks, with the power very low to limit its range.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 11:05:17 pm
content: Sure, but it does not sound too reliable, plus you would affect your own network too.This can't be productized for the masses, and I don't think they care if a couple geeks jam their own network to spoof the location.It may be easier to just have it in a Faraday cage with just one access point. This way it will only see the notwork it is meant to see.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2023, 01:28:28 am
content: The jamming could be at such a low power level (fraction of a milliwatt) that it basically has to be attached to the back of the device.I suppose just putting it in a metal box along with a Raspberry Pi would work. But then why not just use the Raspberry Pi as the media player? (I suppose one could use a Raspberry Pi Zero, plenty powerful enough to use as a VPN router and cheap, but only limited to 1080p graphics.)