graphing calculator after you've finished your college - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 08:41:22 pm
content: Greetings.So here is the thing... Do you still use your graphing calculator after you've received your degree and started to work?I have a Ti Nspire CX CAS calculator and now when I'm closer to my masters degree i use it less and less.On regular bases i use my Casio 991ex and my Ti sits at home waiting for a better days(and maybe soon ill buy HP35s becauseof an RPN mod). What is your story?Cheers

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 08:48:27 pm
content: My TI 89 Titanium sits on my desk at work, never gets used. For simple arithmetic stuff I just use the calculator on the computer. For more complex calculations I use an actual programming/scripting language. There just isn't really a role for the TI to fill. That said, one of my coworkers uses his constantly, so YMMV.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:10:05 pm
content: NopeMatlabMathematicaExcelPunching stuff into the calculator takes too long and can't be copy pasted into reports easily...I use my HP48GX for very basic stuff anymore.

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:15:39 pm
content: Rarely but I sometimes use it for a quick sanity check when I can't be bothered to turn the chair 90 degrees and use the computer right next to me.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:23:03 pm
content: WolframAlpha does it so much fasterhttps://www.wolframalpha.com/But I have my graphing calculators on the desk and use them from time as well.The go to # 1 calculator is my HP 32S RPN

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:27:52 pm
content: I did for a while, but then I discovered RealCalc (android app) and the joys of RPN. I much prefer that for arithmetic vs the TI-83 I used for years. On the rare occasion I want to just see a graph of a function these days I'll use Wolfram Alpha or something. Any real number-crunching or analysis happens on the PC.

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:30:28 pm
content: I use my HP35s for quick calculations because it's RPN. I don't really understand the need for graphing capabilities in a hand calculator. My 50G had good programming capabilities, so I used it during exams in school for some iterative solvers that I pre-programmed. Otherwise, scientific calculators are easier IMO.Most often, I use my HP11C emulator app on my phone when away from my desk.

author: mzdenkov
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 09:51:35 pm
content: Oh my god. my poor TI.... As far as i can see from your answers my calc will or will not be in use, so we will see what future brings.Thanks.Cheers

author: razberik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:17:38 pm
content: I used TI-82 at university, bought on ebay for 20$.When I finished uni I won HP-48G for 40$ but never used it. My girlfriend use it instead for her school. She likes RPN which doesn't fit to me.Few months ago I finally won TI-89 for 25$. I use it in work daily. For basic calculations +-*/TI-82 is at my desk at home.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:28:40 pm
content: Given most data that likely needs to be processed/graphed comes via various instruments that means it ends up on a laptop/pc - so that's where it gets dealt with. HP42S and an emulator on my Android phone takes care of simple calculations.Other than the artificial world of school/tests where they need to ensure you aren't bringing in the 'answers' on your laptop etc, I see no use for a graphing calculator. i.e. they are limiting the device/capability by enforcing a certain model/brand as 'approved'.cheers,george.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 10:54:11 pm
content: Personally I HATE Ti calculators. They have never released a single decent calculator in their entire time as a companyI use my HP Prime in school, I am currently enrolled in college (15 years old), but just for a maths class. It's the best calculator I have ever used, and absolutely trumps any Ti calculators.Anything HP or anything RPN is great.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 11:13:15 pm
content: I have a HP49G on the desk and have the go49G emulator on my android phone. If I was choosing from scratch, I would probably go for a lower complexity HP model that also has an emulator available as I never really use graphing at all. If I need to solve a problem that needs graphing, I would do it on a PC.One of my main criteria for a calculator is that it has to run for at least months on a set of batteries and has to run for at least a day with the low battery warning, so I will never touch anything that requires a backlit screen.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 11:20:40 pm
content: I use it for some quicker calculations as I can type into it quicker than I can on the computer screen.

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2017, 11:44:48 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on January 26, 2017, 10:54:11 pmTotally agree with hating on Ti. Once you get your head around it, RPN is much easier for complex calculations.The HP calculator division did lose it's way for a bit, so I wouldn't sayanythingfrom them is great. They even abandoned RPN for a while, and though they've realized how stupid that was, their calculators still default into algebraic notation

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 01:01:06 am
content: Quote from: iaeen on January 26, 2017, 11:44:48 pmhaters gonna hate, RPN entry is one way to get the job done, algebraic entry is another. Neither is superior but I find I can do engineering calculations easier by seeing the entire calculation as its written. I'll always suggest making a clear distinction between numerical and symbolic maths, they're best attacked with different tools.

author: garboui
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 01:19:32 am
content: Never needed or used it outside one class that required it (TI-80). Everything else casio all the way! FX991ms, FX-260 as kickarounds (also the same as the real calc android app), and an fx115w as my main calc at work.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 01:57:05 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 27, 2017, 01:01:06 amRPN does have it's advantages. When you want to calculate something and you know exactly what your calculating because it's a personal problem (I mean literally, a problem you are working on not given) it's no competition because of the ability to immediately make changed without having to use bulky and slow signage, and other syntax.When you need to input an equation, that's where HP's textbook input really shines. You can make it look almost verbatim with what is written down, and afterwards you can perform RPN on it.And yea, the "Everything from HP is great" statement was a bit of a fanboy thing to say instead of a legit argument, but they have more calculators I would be willing to spend money on than Ti. Most of Ti's line is crappy Z80 based computers that have less computing power than an Arduino, but instead of being something reasonable like 30-40USD, they rip you off for over 100$.The 68k stuff in interesting to me ONLY because I like the 68k. It's still WAY more expensive than it should be, having around as much power as an IBM PC AT class system.Even The NSpire line is woefully under powered compared to the HP Prime. 133mhz vs 400mhz identical core/architecture ARM chips is a flat out 3x improvements no questions asked, and for often cheaper, as I was able to get my Prime for around 100-110 USD.Even the 50G which is going anywhere from 50-75 USD is a brilliant option for anybody. It's textbook entry system is complete and total bullshit, with a useless cursor system that came with the 49G line and went with the 49G line, with the HP Prime returning to the 48G's simple single cursor system instead of a strange block thing that made no sense to anybody.The awesome features of the HP Prime is it's touchscreen. It's not used for entry, for which you have the keyboard, but rather navigation and menus which REALLY speeds some more intrusive stuff up. You can also just pinch/zoom and finger around graphs and lists, which is AWESOME. The zoom controls are a bit odd, but the touch pan and zoom is brilliant.But in case you're out of the loop and are wondering, if these calculators are so much cheaper and nicer than Ti's offerings why does every North American school use them?Because they texas styled the market basically trapping schools into pushing their junk. I don't have official figures, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Ti-83 made a 20-40x markup from materials, assembly, and shipping, because it's a Z80 SOC with a screen and piss poor keyboard attached.There are also other things we are offered, Maple is something my school uses, but having the HP Prime, I find it does all Maple does and more, with the ability to install new applications onto it like a computer.Casio and SHARP also make calculators, but I haven't tried them out. Talking with a maths teacher about calculators, she said she dislikes SHARP's offerings, but I have never used either.For real world work, where you don't have to go anywhere, and when calculations are a number one thing you do in your work, a CAS program is perfect, but I find that if I am doing things like programming or CAD work that require multiple calculations off to the side, it's nicer to have a separate unit rather than a program that will take up a monitor or that I have to switch to. So if you're a programmer who needs a quick and dirty calculator for off to the side calculations that can be more than what a simple scientific calculator can do, I suggest a HP50G, 49G, or 48G (S lines available for 48 series if you can find it cheaper). Whichever one of those you can find cheaper, get it. The 50 and 48G have better keyboards than the 49G which had issues with sticking keys, (48 and 50G have hinged keys which have a GREAT tactile feel).If you are doing advanced work, but still use another program for your main work, and like the idea of an off to the side calculator, the HP Prime is great for advanced stuff. It's a pleasure to work with, ESPECIALLY if you need to do a lot of different graphing as it can display different graphs with different colours.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 02:49:52 am
content: I have the TI Inspire and an HP 50g. Both do the job but I actually USE my HP48GX although not so much for graphing.Graphing is mostly done athttps://www.desmos.com/although I use Microsoft Mathematics as well.For symbolic (and numeric) solutions, I am starting to fall in love with wxMaxima (the GUI shell for Maxima). It is excellent! My grandson and I use it every day to check his Calculus homework. It has a near vertical learning curve... The other day I was using it for node and mesh analysis for a problem posed in the Beginners forum. What a treat compared to solving the complex equations by hand!I also have GNU Octave but I have put it aside in favor of Maxima for now.ETA: I want a calculator with pure RPN. I don't care for textbook mode although I see where it is useful under some conditions. I've been using RPN since the HP35 came out back around '72 and I haven't found a reason to change.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 03:03:48 am
content: I know how to use RPN, mostly as self defense - in college the professor was all too happy to lend out one of his calculator to anyone who had theirs fail during an exam, no need to make someone fail an exam because of faulty hardware, right? Only his calculators were all HP's. Good for me, I had a nice Casio that never broke - only to have it killed 5 years later by a 3 year old "hiding" in a lamp on top of a 100 watt light bulb.But I still don't get how it's any more intuitive than a true algebraic calculator, at least one that has an actual display and not just digits - I can key in an equation as written and know I will get the correct answer because order of operations and all that good stuff will be followed. I'd take RPN over a calculator that can't do algebraic at all, but of the three I'll always pick an algebraic over RPN.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 03:43:05 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on January 27, 2017, 03:03:48 amThe algebraic entry systems are pretty good but you still need to use a lot of parenthesis. These are seldom necessary (if ever) with RPN. I do a kind of mantra thing in my head when using RPN and it works for me. My grandson is catching on and I think he now prefers RPN as well.This has been a much debated thing over the last 45 years or so. There are people lined up on all sides of the issue and, for me, it isn't worth discussing. I'm not an evangelist. If people like the other systems, they should use them. It's getting the right answer that's important.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:05:20 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on January 27, 2017, 01:57:05 amIf I've written out the equation why do I need additional steps? Answer should be immediate at that point, and then the strength of algebraic entry systems on modern calculators is recalling that entire equation and changing a few of the values to revaluate the result.No programming, no routines, no special modes, just a quick way to explore options in complex equations. You can then add in variable substitution to make it even quicker. All the methods have their strengths and weaknesses and you can find cases of each. For something that doesn't need to be recorded/stored/shared a calculator can cover many cases some people might use a spreadsheet program for, whatever works best for them.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:33:38 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 27, 2017, 04:05:20 amYou are justifying the use of an Algebraic calculator based on the way you use your calculator. On that basis you will always win the argument hands down.The point about RPN is your whole mental approach can be different - most of the time I have no equation written down at all. RPN seems to be a better way to enhance mental arithmetic. The advanced HP caclulators allow algebraic equations to be entered if you need to work with equations, but that is pretty rare for me.Anyway, a lot of "Algebraic" calulators use RPN when they feel like it - if you can enter a number and then press the SIN button to get the sine of the number, that is pure RPN. A pure Algebraic calculator would require you to press SIN first and then put the number you want inside brackets and then press "=".

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 06:06:30 am
content: Quote from: amspire on January 27, 2017, 04:33:38 amAnd qualifying it each time with the important point that people will use the same tools differently, and prefer different tools. There is no single vastly superior option for everything as some people in here are suggesting.Quote from: amspire on January 27, 2017, 04:33:38 amThats not an algebraic entry but rather the immediate execution (which has somehow been called algebraic entry):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator_input_methodsI'm talking as written style:

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 06:33:19 am
content: I used an Ti-84SE in high school, it was just perfect. Tactile enough buttons, large screen, programming. Which I did a lot in TI Basic, small physics and maths tools. Used it a lot at home as well.For university I bought an TI Nspire. Because it solves algebra for you, and was supposed to support hex and bin, which should be really helpful. It is now banned on schools.Now I'm a embedded programmer, and I've bought two Casio FX-991MS. From India, because that's where they sell them apparently. I bought them because they can do dec,bin,hex,oct with a button instead of a command. The two graphing calculators are now collecting dust.Shame, they were (artificially made) expensive.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 07:03:04 am
content: HP50g here. And a Casio FX991 ES PLUS but I mainly use the 50g.As for RPN loving, I can't stand old style RPN calculators. The 50g is an RPL calculator which is similar but different enough to be a thousand times more usable.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 08:10:11 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 27, 2017, 06:06:30 amIf you read that Wikipedia article, it says that "immediate execution mode" (or algebraic entry system - AES) is a mixture of infix and postfix notation. It then describes the potential errors that this mode can lead to.It then goes on to say that postfix notation is another name for RPN. I think the Wikipeda article is saying the same thing I tried to say.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 09:20:56 am
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on January 27, 2017, 07:03:04 amWP 34-S, HP35-S and Casio FX991ES.At school the kids have been standardised to Casio FX85 or similar so its useful to have the FX991 which is a FX85 plus a few constants and bits and pieces when helping explain homework etc.I use the WP or HP very rarely when doing one-off calculations....but to be honest.... 99.99999% of calculation is done in Excel, MatLab, R or Wolfram Alpha.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 09:22:11 am
content: That's exactly why I have my Casio

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 09:58:16 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 27, 2017, 04:05:20 amIt's exactly because of the "spreadsheet" case that RPN is better.Imagine you have an experiment and you are taking measurements. You have one DMM measuring voltage and another for current, and you would like to track the apparent power (V*I) over time, take the minimum and maximum and the average, et cetera. With an RPN calculator that is simplicity itself: you type the voltage, Enter, the current, *, and repeat. No variables and no programming. When the data is finished, you can see all the entries still there in the stack*, and process them in any way desired. You could, for example, average all the results and take their first differences by keying in DEPTH DUP ->LIST SWAP OVER \$\Sigma\$LIST SWAP / SWAP \$\Delta\$LIST.Or take the previous 6 results, and put them in an array. In RPLallprevious results stay on the stack. It's normal to have dozens of them and you can use any one at any time without "recalling" anything or storing into variables. You can even edit them in-place. Just like a spreadsheet.... It's no coincidence that RPN calculators like the HP12C are preferred by accountants.Algebraic entry simply doesn't generalize to such complex tasks—it's a sop to simple minds who can't evolve past the pencil and paper, or believe that mathematics "just does" require ambiguous infix operators.Or don't you think they are ambiguous?* note that arbitrary-depth stacks are a feature of RPL (Reverse Polish Lisp) calculators like the HP28S or HP48/49. Most earlier RPN calculators only have 4 stack slots, labeled T, Z, Y, and X, which is not convenient for sequential data entry. You would need to STOre the V*I results into a register or variable to keep them around.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 10:10:38 am
content: That is why I use the HP50G as my daily driver - infinite value stack and programmability. You can assign the program to a user key.This one is in the user menu on mine and gets used more than anything.<< INV SWAP INV + INV >>series capacitor, parallel inductor, series resistor.12e3 <enter> 10e3 <F1>Out pops the answer on the stack. Want to add another value?22e3 <F1>Another one100e6 <F1>Etc etc.Also no BODMAS crap. All operations are simply single or double arity functions with explicit precedence per operation based on stack position. There are ZERO inconsistencies like the (-3)^2 vs -3^2 above.To quote Viz, the thing is hotter than satan's bollocks.Edit: Note: for the first month of using it I wondered why the hell I bought it and it absolutely did my head in but it came to me literally after about 3-4 weeks that I'd actually been broken by the historical education enforced TI and Casio calculators we have here in the UK. Since SVPAM and subsequent textbooks displays turned up, it actually made the device less powerful. It's like digging a hole in the ground with an iPod instead of buying a shovel.

author: kultakala
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 11:04:38 am
content: Never had a graphing calculator but thought about it.My favourite one was HP41C which i used from the eighties until it broke 10 years ago.Today i use HP35S or HP34S (modified HP30B) and on my office desk i have a HP97 from 1980 which i still use :-)

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 11:22:01 am
content: I still have my TI Nspire calculator from uni and it sure has served me well there. I liked it that you don't have to memorize much syntax to get it to calculate things, pretty much put in in the way its written and it usually comes up with a result. Lovely calculator if you just came in to the graphing calculator world and just want to use the thing. I tried to use an older HP from a classmate and i was pretty much lost.However now it sits on a shelf gathering dust. A regular scientific calculator and excel gets me by for pretty much everything i need to do. Rarely i might use wolfram alpha.

author: iaeen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 11:49:42 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on January 27, 2017, 03:03:48 amWhat's the appeal of Casios? I've frequently heard people express the opinion that they were "fancy" or "high quality", but have never understood what it was that gave people that impression.QuoteIt's not about intuition; it's about efficiency.Calculators aren't humans, and their input methid isn't pencil on paper. As a result, you will never overcome the combersome aspects of algebraic notation. Yes, RPN takes a certain amount of skill since you can't key in the equation "as written", but that's not a big deal with some practice. Often for more complex calculations I can bang it out twice in RPN (thus checking my work) in the time most people take to type it once on an algebraic calculator.In engineering school, I would regularly finish exams30-40% fasterthan my colleagues. I didn't sacrifice quality for that either. If my exam score wasn't more than a standard deviation above the average, I considered it a poor performance.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:14:56 pm
content: Casio was pretty high quality compared to some of the shittier no brands available on the market in the 1980s and 1990s. Plus they were a principle innovator. I think that's where the reputation came from. They really aren't very good quality now. The buttons on the recent ones are terrible. They're actually all designed and made in China by a company called Kinpo Electronics. They also, perhaps ironically, make HP calculators and TI ones. If you buy an HP 300s calculator for example, the OS is the same as the Casio FX-85 ES. Even the TI 30 is the same underneath. The HP50g is a Kinpo developed emulator for the old HP Saturn architecture that runs on a relatively hefty ARM core (the source of the HP 50g battery gobbling). The market differentiation is the specification to which the calculator is made to now. Casio aim low. Some of the other recent HP calculators are AVR based if I remember correctly.Regarding the efficiency, it's difficult talking to a machine in its native language and it's difficult for the machine to talk in our language. Pushing this towards the computer doing the hard work is a subject of much study since the dawn of computing but it hasn't really got anywhere other than trivial expert systems (Siri, Google etc) and terrible GUIs (Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android). RPN/RPL for the purposes of calculation takes the mid-ground which is a healthy compromise between the machine and the human. If you're willing to put some effort in to meet the other half way then you end up with a good relationship. That works for humans too

author: spudboy488
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:44:06 pm
content: Old fart here. I never had a graphing calculator but I still use my 35+ year old HP11C at work. I use RealCalc on my phone since it will also run RPN.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: iaeen on January 27, 2017, 11:49:42 amI seem to remember that they supported the teachers by providing user guides and an emulator (for use in teaching demos) etc.Sometimes it's not the product but the ability to get a community around it.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 12:50:38 pm
content: HP 48SX here, bought in 1992. I learned that RPN was very similar to assembly language so it was a natural fit after working on 6502. Now I'm messing with forth since its similar as well.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 01:19:06 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on January 27, 2017, 12:47:40 pmThis is the case with Ti, but in overdrive. Ti nickle and dimes you with products that have a nickle and dime worth of parts that they sell for 100+ USD because all the books and courses are written for it. And for the unaware student, they don't know that the Ti 83/84 series have no power to speak of, and can't do much beyond college Algebra.HP's CAS system has been in the works since the turn of the millennium, and it works flawlessly. This disqualifies them from the ACT and other CAS banned places, in which case the 48G is perfect.

author: bghende
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:33:47 pm
content: I haven't touched my TI-89 since I finished college 10 years ago. It still sits within arms reach in my desk drawer. I find it comforting to know its there.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:42:34 pm
content: I have one calculator where the trig functions are all combined in a menu under a button - I'm not going to go look for it but anybody who has one knows which calculator I am talking about. I absolutely hate that calculator. On my HP48GX if I want sin(36), I just enter 36 and push the sin button. This is a really big deal when working on trig homework problems. The HP48GX is much faster!Here's the problem I run into: Am I in degree or radian mode? I enter 30 and press the sin button. If I get 0.5, I am in degree mode. I do this every time I start on a problem using trig functions.Since we are talking post graduation, the use of computers probably swamps the use of calculators. You really need to look at wxMaxima.Early in the Calculus course the students get started on the secant line by doing things like (f(x+deltaX)-f(x))/deltaX and eventually take the limit as deltaX goes to 0 where they come up with the tangent line. Attached is the input and output of wxMaxima. It is faster to type the statements into wxMaxima than it is to solve them by hand.We can change the definition of f(x):= <anything> and rerun the problem. It is regrettable that there is a text substitution, I would rather have taken f(x+h) than f(a+h) but I didn't write the textbook. Anyway, as h goes to 0, we wind up with the derivative of a3as 3a2. Try that with a calculator! Yes, some will give the derivative but not the derivation.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:47:23 pm
content: Another bit of calculator hate before I forget.Dear TI: Why the hell on Earth is the EE key shifted on half of your calculators?!?!?!

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 04:49:33 pm
content: I use a TI nspire CAS for the heavy duty stuff at university but for quicker calculations, I really like the TI-36X Pro. The buttons are nice to press (some other TI calculators don't always register button presses) and I find the layout pretty good.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 05:04:28 pm
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on January 27, 2017, 04:47:23 pmHP Prime has the Enter key on the wrong side. The button belongs under the index finger of the right hand. Every other location is wrong! You would think that HP would know this!Lefties may feel differently...At least the trig functions are on separate keys.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 05:35:34 pm
content: The prime is a fine example of design by committee. It's horrid. The whole context system switching back and forth in workspaces is a gigantic turd.

author: meeder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 05:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 27, 2017, 05:04:28 pmTo me as a lefty it works quite good

author: meeder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 05:59:37 pm
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on January 27, 2017, 05:35:34 pmIt does depend on what you are used to. I have a TI Voyage 200 and a HP Prime and the HP works a lot easier for the tasks I use it for.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 06:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: meeder on January 27, 2017, 05:58:15 pmAnd to me as a right handed individual (Formerly ambidextrous, but I now ween towards right handed), I find the enter button on the HP Prime to be in a better place than either the HP48G or the HP50G (Which has the enter keys on the left and bottom right respectively)

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 09:44:24 pm
content: Quote from: helius on January 27, 2017, 09:58:16 amYou're just providing a different case where RPN is superior, they all have their strengths but none dominate. Re-evaluating a complex equation with some different values in it is a strength of as written inputs (delayed evaluation), simple tasks are strength of immediate evaluation.Note how HP present their suggested stats calculations for the 12c and 50g:http://support.hp.com/us-en/document/bpia5198http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c01765247Which is the same list/spreadsheet entry as available on TI, Casio, Sharp calculators. There are workflows out there for all sorts of different tasks and people, I prefer as written and dont see the problem with letting the calculator check and confirm order of operation cases rather than leaving it to the user who might be confused by your example. Calculators are still a quicker way of doing many computations, but few people have jobs that need incidental calculations.

author: Nystemy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2017, 10:38:52 pm
content: I tend to prefer to use a cheap calculator on a regular basis, as I at least consider it faster to use compared to the computer.Then I have a TI82 and a TI84, and I tend to use them every now and then for doing some graphs. Mostly because the stuff I need to calculate is simple and easy and opening a new tab in the browser for Wolframalpha, simply takes longer then using the calculator in my case.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 12:14:02 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 27, 2017, 04:42:34 pmDarn you, I didn't need yet another package to play with

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 03:39:07 am
content: Quote from: iaeen on January 27, 2017, 11:49:42 amMy Casio story.In high school (around 1994-95), like everyone else, I bought TI graphing calculator. It was not a top of the line TI, I think it was TI-81.Then I went to college. And I decided to buy another graphing calculator. I went to the store. I am looking at TI stuff. I am looking at the price tag... I don't want to spend 80-90 dollars... I am looking at what else is there... I see Casio. It is half the price of TI! It has THREE COLORS!!!!!!! Wait. I just spent high school using this monochrome thing, why aren't there colors in TI?And that is how I bought my first Casio CFX-9850G. (I later busted it when I fell off the bicycle, but I replaced it right away with the same model which I still have.)Probably not best pic, but you should be able to see the Blue, Orange, Green plots.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 06:43:24 am
content: Quote from: eugenenine on January 28, 2017, 12:14:02 amIt's not all giggles... Today I tried to plot under Win10 and GNUPlot can't find my temp directory. It seems the code is so old that it only wants to deal with 8.3 notation. So, change your personal TEMP and TMP path to c:\temp (create the directory. Then you can plot and print the plot. Printing of documents longer than one page is hosed under wxMaxima. I think they're aware of it.I had a project where the output spanned two pages so I copied and pasted the code (not the output0 to a text file and ran Maxima itself from the command line and refirected the output to a LST file. Then I printed the file. There's always a way...I installed the package under Debian and it works well. But there is no way to print the plots without a lot of command line work. Totally useless1I like the arithmetic part but the rest of the stuff is an exercise in patience.

author: SingedFingers
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 08:54:37 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on January 28, 2017, 03:39:07 amI had one of them. I wish I bought the monochrome one in the end. The display was horrible.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 04:47:31 pm
content: All I had during school and study was a Casio FX602P, with the 512 step program memory. Still have it, still use it and the batteries last around 10 years in there. Was a hand me down from Dad, who no longer used it after he got a new HP41C for himself, plus a few modules later.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 04:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on January 28, 2017, 06:43:24 amI found the problem ^

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2017, 08:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on January 28, 2017, 08:54:37 amI couldn't agree more. I have 7 or 8 graphing calculators and another 7 or 8 scientific calculators, and this is the one that I can't stand to use because of the display.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 01:03:05 am
content: FWIW, I've an HP 11C, HP 48SX (needs repair), and an HP 50G.I still use mine for quick calculations. And although I don't use them for graphing, I do like being able to see what's on the stack (i.e. recursive calculations).

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 01:41:13 am
content: Quote from: SingedFingers on January 28, 2017, 08:54:37 amIt has setting to adjust the contrast.

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2017, 01:44:03 am
content: Graphing calculators are nice only downside is the size. HP50g user here, best is the genious macro/programming ide inbuild on it, the unit conversion, equation libraries (ie. to calculate the measuring impedance error figures) and dropping them to solver. Also the complex number handling is made correctly compared to any other brand I have had opportunity to test out. Even the CAS is nice to have in hand for sanity checks and boots up quicker than average math environment on PC. Last time I used the graphing were in summer when I were studying for myself the differences of pot 0..100% responses with different kind of shunt resistor networks around, it were handy to see the nonlinearities of different setups. The graphics are mainly for explanatory images in software and equation library for me.Reseated myself to study environment, but I can not see myself to dropping it out from my toolchain once I manage to jump to work environment again.. If it would just be a bit smaller.