For sale: Used high end fpgas - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: mribble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2011, 04:53:15 pm
content: I have a bunch of XILINX VIRTEX-4 XC4VLX200 FPGAs. New these are over $5K each, but these are mounted to boards already (8 per board) and would need to be removed. Does anyone know where I could sell something like this?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2011, 07:08:34 pm
content: Try ebay but I wouldn't be too optimistic about price. They may be 5K new, but if you were building things using $5K FPGAs would you risk buying from an unknown source?And they're probably too old to be of interest for development/prototyping.

author: mribble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2011, 07:47:35 pm
content: I kind of figured as much. If anyone has a cool use for these I could probably donate some of these to a cool project. I just hate seeing such cool chips being wasted.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2011, 08:09:16 pm
content: Another issue with big FPGAs is that although possibly attractive for hobbyists, the free version of the software often only supports the lower end devices - people buying $5K chips can afford a few K for devtools.

author: JonnyBoats
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2011, 03:50:42 am
content: How about posting a photo? It would be fun to see what a 5K FPGA looks like ;-)

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2011, 04:57:27 am
content: Quote from: JonnyBoats on October 21, 2011, 03:50:42 amProbably less exciting than you think! e.g.A brand new one could be yours from Avnet fora mere $8000.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2011, 08:11:25 am
content: There are evaluation boards on eBay with two of those beasts for about $300.It looks like there is no much interest in them.

author: mribble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2011, 12:10:36 pm
content: The photo from joelby looks about right.The boards I have have 8 of the chips soldered to daughter boards. I didn't keep the master boards. The chips either need to be unsoldered (which I can do) or the daughter board has sockets that you could interface with.I know these were working great about a year ago when they stopped being used and the systems replaced with larger fpgas.

author: tnt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2011, 10:06:10 am
content: Can you post picture of those daugther boards and their socket. I know what the FPGA look like but I'd like to see if those daugther board could be easily re-purposed.

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2011, 10:55:55 am
content: Yeah, for the hobbyist, a large FPGA is almost impossible to use. You'd have to remove and re-ball it, and to build a PCB capable of carrying one would be expensive (6+ layers). For a company, unless the part is obsolete and not still available new, using second-hand parts is a huge gamble.One possibility is that FPGAs can be used for bitcoin mining, as long as the market hasn't crashed. The implementations I've seen tend to use the JTAG interface for all I/O, so you could probably use any old eBay circuit board as long as you could figure out the power connections.A daughterboard is very interesting though! Having the schematic would be a bonus, but as long as the board itself was fairly simple it ought to be possible to trace each connection to the header.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2011, 10:53:09 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 20, 2011, 08:09:16 pm...ISE Webpack supports up to X25 for the Virtex-4, to be specific.But the verdict still stands. Even if you had dev tools at your disposal, there's that tiny caveat of having the prerequisite knowledge to design a proper board that could support the device class (hint: the process is non-trivial and time consuming). And if that wasn't an issue, then forking up the Benjamins for a multi-layer prototype + reballing + mounting would cost more than a pretty penny; I'd estimate $1000 easily.Quote from: mribble on October 20, 2011, 07:47:35 pmBut if you're willing to send a board my way, I'll pay for shipping.I'm sure I can think of a project (more like experiment, really) in partial reconfiguration that can consume all my free time next year.

author: mribble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2011, 06:07:47 pm
content: These are no longer available.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2011, 12:52:05 pm
content: That particular Virtex 4 series was terrible... Afaik PCI-e was barely working and the tools at that time also were bad. you can try eBay, but I doubt You'll get a good offer for these chips...

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2011, 01:30:15 pm
content: Quote from: Scrts on November 08, 2011, 12:52:05 pm*cough*PCIe != PCI-X*cough*Although I do agree that the old tool chain was a bag of suck ass.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2011, 05:08:29 am
content: Anyone interested in some Xilinx XCV1600-8FG1156 chips? (US only, I guess. Not interested in dealing with export issues!)I have 40, still sealed in their supposedly moisture-proof bag (However, they're from ~2002, so I'm not sure that they're still moisture-free.) At this point I'm more interested in finding a good home for them than making a killing, but back in ~2005 Digikey claimed they were worth about $3000 each...1156pin BGA; not useful for the casual experimenter or small business...

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2011, 10:36:12 am
content: Quote from: westfw on November 11, 2011, 05:08:29 amMight as well hang 'em up on a wall to spark up a conversation while entertaining guests. To be sure, I'd be happy enough just having a legit BGA device with massive I/O in my possession, let alone a marvelous piece of history.Virtex-E overview:http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds022-1.pdfSpartan-6 overview:http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdfTable 1 of page 2 in both docs is applicable.On one hand, we have a bleed-edge (at the time) 180nm reconfigurable device in a BGA package with massive differential I/O capability, making it developmentally prohibitive.On the other, a modern 45nm economy class device where the same amount of embedded block RAM can be had for ~$16 in a hobbyist-accessible 144-pin QFP. Don't believe me?http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/XC6SLX9-2TQG144C/122-1745-ND/2339919It's amazing how quickly technology becomes obsolete...and I'm not talking about 8-bit TTL microcontroller obsolete, because even those can still be effectively used. In this case, the devices you have in your possession arereallyobsolete in terms of development overhead. Just thought I'd throw that out in the open.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2011, 09:17:16 am
content: Oh, I believe you. Being an ethical sort of dumpster-diver, when I found $120K (nominal) worth of chips, I asked whether there was some way to put them back into use. The answer was essentially "well, we don't really want to , and probably couldn't even if we did want to [not the official supply chain!]"The people who chase the latest and greatest very-expensive parts don't linger, and they don't use parts from the trash (even their own trash)!The only way they'd be likely to be worth anything to anybody is if there were a design that used them that was now paying "legacy distributor" prices for them, and that's not at all likely (companies who use $1000 chips tend to either disappear completely or upgrade to newer technology.)Depressing, though.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2011, 11:17:53 am
content: Those chips are not supported by common version tools. Even not supported by 2-3 years old tools... Those FPGAs can be used only for repair old devices, but no way for new projects.

author: JonnyBoats
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 06:30:26 am
content: Quote from: westfw on November 11, 2011, 05:08:29 amI bet they would make a nice paperweight if cast into clear acrylic. It's something I'd love to have on my desk, much better than trashing them.

author: slateraptor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2011, 07:06:09 am
content: Quote from: JonnyBoats on November 22, 2011, 06:30:26 amMuch cooler on a wall...at the very least, it'll preserve the device's dignity.

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2011, 05:14:43 pm
content: I'll give you 20 bucks for them

author: sorin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2011, 02:24:42 am
content: why they cost so much?

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2011, 07:37:26 am
content: It depends... Calculate the price per transistor and You'll see that it doesn't cost that much

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2011, 09:36:42 am
content: Quote from: sorin on December 02, 2011, 02:24:42 amLarge die size, high test cost, low volume.And also because they can.