Design engineers: Can you shut off your brain during non-work hours? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 03:39:35 am
content: Greetings,For lack of a better name, I’ve been in a “EE design lead” role for the last four years.While I love the nitty gritty, I find it extremely difficult to shut my brain off during non-working hours. I’m still early in my career, turning 29 this year, so maybe it is something I need to learn and to actively work on.Up to a certain complexity, many engineering projects are lead by one main designer who guides/steers the development based on his/her analysis/projections/imagination/feelings(!). This often puts a lot of burden on one person to figure out how to best do something.Often this obsession over some project detail spills over into non-working hours. For example, as I take a bite of my lasagna at dinner, I’ll think “Where the hell am I going to squeeze that heatsink?” or “Hmm would a simple little PMOS circuit do the trick there” or insert a million other things.I’ve noticed other lead engineers, including my ex-boss, seem to have this tendency too. (Sending emails at 3am with answers presented to him in a dream.) No shade there at all; he was an extremely effective engineer and did not seem to bother him.I just wonder: Are there those of you out there in “intense” design lead positions who can turn your brains off when you’re not on the clock? Is that something you learned or is that just who you are?Thanks,Tim

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 03:53:02 am
content: Not an engineer here but I also have these issues."Hmm how could put that motor in that small space""What could I do to keep x thing going while stopping the MCU core""Tomorrow I'll check the voltages at x y z points, the issue must be there"I find it more like a curse than a good thing, sometimes I can't sleep well because my damm head keeps rolling.The problem is too much anything causes obsession.A weekend, few beers, fixing car stuff and some barbecue, I don't even think in that.But when it becomes your daily activity for too long amd you don't compensate with other things, it happens.Heavy exercising helps a lot!

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:01:51 am
content: I've been retired for more than a decade and still haven't gotten rid of the habit. When working I could shut off during regular non-working, non sleeping hours as long as I was fully occupied with sports, family or volunteer activities, but would always wake up in the middle of the night and work through whatever the issues of the day were. Didn't get of bed, just lay there with my eyes closed and thinking for one to three hours. That habit persists, itt is just different topics.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:25:32 am
content: Never take work home. Learn to draw the line. At my current workplace we have official "Right to disconnect" policy. It explicitly disallows work related calls and emails after hours unless you are in an overtime paid support role.

author: DavidAlfa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:29:05 am
content: This is not "right to disconnect", have you read anything?

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:15:14 am
content: I've been retired for over 20 years (I retired fairly young) and I still can't let go of a good problem. When trying to figure out something interesting (and that's all I work on now, the interesting stuff), I will lay awake thinking about it, and often wake up with an answer. During the day I will often find myself staring off into space, trying to find a new way of analyzing the solution-space. And I was this way during my engineering career.Yes, I can disconnect and enjoy other things, but usually during a lull between projects. I did eventually learn to recognize the early-warning signs of burn-out, and will force myself to ease off before I really hit the wall.That's not just what I did, it's who I am. And I couldn't imagine being as happy any other way.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:34:44 am
content: I'm 31 and in that role. I also had that problem, but now yes, i can. I've been close to burnout many time in the past couple of years and i made it through because i managed to learn how to distance myself from work.Sometimes i can't, as it could be a problem that's really been bugging me, or an important deadline (a red flag is not having, nor taking "peace periods" between one deadline and the other, or between one pain in the ass and another)What i can suggest is to find another hobby, or discipline, that you throw yourself at completely so your brain becomes 100% focused on that, in a few years it becomes easier to disconnect from work at will, at which point you may start receiving "the answer in a dream" (or more commonly, under the shower. Active brain is disconnected, subconcious found the solution)

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:52:15 am
content: Helps to have a hobby or something/someone else to look forward to after work.I also took teams off my phone so I didn't have to deal with the client outside of being in their office. If an idea pops up into my head during the weekend or whatever, will just email it to myself and get on with life until Monday.Funnily enough I come up with some of my best ideas when travelling. When people are glued to the screens mid-air, I'm scribbling down all sorts of things in an exercise book.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:56:08 am
content: Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2023, 03:39:35 amNope. I always see the engineerng angle in everything I see and do.Same with video production, Mrs EEVblog hates it when I constantly yap on during reality TV shows about the production quality and issues, the maniputation through editing and the mood music etc.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 07:22:47 am
content: I'm my own boss and work from home, so there's essentially no distinction between 'home life' vs 'work life' - there's just 'my life'.I'm completely OK with that, it seems like a natural and obvious way to exist. Maybe that wouldn't be the case for everyone.It does help that I have outside interests that are nothing to do with engineering, and which take up a fair amount of time. For example, I help run a local archery club, which means I get to meet people, organise courses, teach new members, and occasionally even get to shoot my own bow. These activities do represent a commitment of time and effort, but that's fine - it gives them priority over collapsing on the sofa which is probably what I'd end up doing otherwise.If you do find your mind dwells on work, try doing more physical exercise. I've had some great technical ideas while out riding my bike.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 07:37:53 am
content: No.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:14:38 am
content: Putting your thoughts on paper is a good one.Then you sort of have already organized them once and your head can give up a bit.

author: Miyuki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:14:48 am
content: I have completely free and random work time so I just track the time I think about the problem and report it at the end of the monthWhen Im in the mood to work on Sunday at midnight it's ok.It works great if you have mood swings, so I can work every other week or so.It is not applicable to all roles, but I think it can be fairly manageable in most positions.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 08:17:49 am
content: No, why?I come on here to find other electronics ideas/questions/info to displace work stuff from my brain.Quote from: Bud on June 13, 2023, 04:25:32 amIt's interesting to distinguish between, just what simmers in your mind because it does, versus what work wants/needs you to do (and, what workshould be expectingyou to do). If it's just, going to happen, or helps overall, don't worry about it; if you're expected to be on call, or staying late, or people putting big expectations on you, demanding boss(es) or clients, that sort of thing -- that's paid time, heck with that.Also maybe matters whether it's hourly or salaried. If hourly, it's kinda up to you how you want to count that; salaried, it's usually assumed or included, but you might argue that's the case whether, for example, your contract has a one of those "all your creative output is our property" clauses.If it's becoming a source of stress, absolutely; disconnect, turn off your phone, disable email alerts, go do something fun, whether that's as similar as working on another (but unrelated) project, or completely unrelated like exercise, socializing, playing games, etc. Your health comes first!And if their expectations are out of sync with yours, or your pay, or contract, well, that's a political problem, not an engineering one; make your grievances known, and don't be afraid to shop for a new job; you have no duty to them beyond what they pay you!For my part, I've probably confused people every so often, as I have a penchant of staying up at all hours (as is no mystery if you've been watching time/date of my posts here), so occasionally send a message during off hours. I should probably keep in mind more often that people may have email alerts on their phone or whatever...Tim

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 09:52:30 am
content: I'd recommend Sudokus. For years i have been doing one each day. Just ten minutes to calm down. Or physical activity like tennis or soccer.In my case a certain patience came with age. I learned that the first idea isn't always important and one better sleeps a night or two to find a good solution. Help is required if one can't sleep any more.Regards, Dieter

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 02:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: DavidAlfa on June 13, 2023, 04:29:05 amSerious discussion:https://www.prodoscore.com/blog/right-to-disconnect-laws-are-they-coming-to-the-us/

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 03:22:43 pm
content: Don't see the problem. Either you like what you do and enjoy your mind churning things, or you clock watch and stop at the end of the day.FWIW, I sometimes think up great solutions to work problems when I am drifting off to sleep. The only problem with that is remembering WTF the solution was when I wake upAs it happens, I realised one of my best solutions when I was mildly, er, intoxicated but managed to retain the idea the next morning and the implementation made a big contribution to my company's products of that time.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 03:50:20 pm
content: I often lived some distance from my job, and had a one-hour each way commute over winding country roads. That was some of my most productive time, as some days once I got to work I spent most of my time putting out other people's fires. That was also critical to the company's success, and it's always interesting to help someone figure out a difficult situation, but for my own designs I needed the uninterrupted "flow" time. For me that was often during my commute. Or, between the hours of 11PM and 3AM, and I gave myself permission to come in to work late. My boss backed me up on this.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:00:36 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 13, 2023, 08:17:49 amI seem to remember Germany making it a law (or at least talking about it) banning emails after normal work hoursI think some Germany companies started it after they were forced to pay overtime to people reading and respondingto emails outside work hours, so they made it a policy to queue up emails delivery until normal work hours

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2023, 05:56:08 amThink this is the gift/curse of all good scientist/engineers!!Best

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:27:33 pm
content: About 30 years ago, the best technical idea I had for my job came to my head as I woke up at home on Christmas morning.I had to wait a few days before I could reduce it to practice.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 04:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 13, 2023, 08:17:49 amYes, this is interesting, and certainly something I've thought about. In my case, work neverexplicitlyexpects me to do work after normal working hours, or anything like that. The outward attitude of our management is, more or less: "it gets done when it gets done". Digging a little deeper, even if company has that outward attitude, it can certainly still have structural/systemic issues whichimplicitlyenforce a certain employee lifestyle.Like many of you, my brain has worked like this for as long as I can remember. I've practically been doing engineering projects for most of my life (well before anyone was paying me for it.) My brain certainly enjoys thinking about problems and imagining solutions. And I find the conscious/subconscious interaction pretty fascinating. As many of you note, it is often the case that the best ideas come from a subconscious voice. I think you still need to stimulate your subconscious with conscious thought. (e.g. you have toconsciouslythink of thatbadfirst idea , before your subconscious can come in and steer you in a better direction.) But the fact that subconscious is so important to solving problems sort of implies that ithasto be done in off hours...so, it's like you can't really turn off your brain or else you'll never solve anything.Certainly I get a lot of energy from problem solving, as do most of you. I'm just trying to understand how crazy you all are, and if you try to "manage the crazy" or if you just fully embrace it? (Or, pessimistically, do you let it take over you?). If you suppress it, you may kill a part of yourself in the process..yes, but on the other hand, there's a lot more to life than just solving engineering problems.

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:15:29 pm
content: I work for myself so generally I can work or not work as I please.I tend to do something different outside work hours to give the brain a change.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2023, 05:56:08 amAh, I have no problem looking at the world as an engineer. That's just natural.I am really talking about being "present" in other aspects of life. You know, I shouldn't be doing a tolerance stack-up in my head at my nephew's 2nd birthday party. That's just crazy. But sometimes that's what the brain wants to do!

author: mendip_discovery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 05:21:30 pm
content: I think you are preaching to the choir with this problem.What I do is ride motorcycles, this takes up a fair amount of conscious brain that allows me to just enjoy myself for a while. Then I am often physically tired when I got home (rides are normally more than 8 hrs on constant riding) then I sleep.During the week I listen to an audio book as I fall asleep and set it on a time so it doesn't play all night. I find it provides enough distraction to fall off to sleep.I still have weekends and nights where I cant rest until I finish what I was working on.

author: PwrElectronics
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 06:08:16 pm
content: Just a few days ago I had some thought pop into my semi-awake status just before getting up in the morning. Yes, it was to do with my current design project and fortunately I remembered it and was able to act on it later that morning.I've been at this now for a little over 30yrs and although not a real common thing, I have had work related ideas or reminders to do X pop into my brain after work hours many times. Does not bother me.Long ago, there was a older mechanical engineer I worked with who once told of when he was a fairly new engineer and working on some sort of gear or transmission project. He had a dream/nightmare about being chased by gears and woke up in a sweat but was able to solve his problems from some insight gained.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 11:09:47 pm
content: Short answer to the OP, yes.A couple of old man observations, if I may..The premise of work/non-work hours is confusing since this is a salary-man construct. Believe it or not, engineering is an art and most folks take too long to realize that regular hours and productive hours are not the same thing.When you realize that you're doing someone else's work on your time is when you've finally evolved enough to begin branching out and walking your own path in regards to time management. For some, that means the daunting transition over to self-employment.Apply regular critical analysis to your mindset as you would some project.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 11:21:22 pm
content: Thinking about designing and problem solving during all waking hours, and possibly sub-consciously during non-waking hours, is a feature not a bug.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 12:43:15 am
content: Quote from: John B on June 13, 2023, 11:21:22 pmNo, to some of us it's a curse. My doctor finally prescribed Zolpidem for me so that I could get to sleep otherwise I was like the walking dead the next day due to a lack of sleep. Since starting Zolpidem I'm 100% functional the next day and I'm often up by 6AM and I often work past 11 at night. After years of never getting a full night's sleep I've found that I can function perfectly well on about 5 to 6 hours of good sleep per night.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 01:35:35 am
content: I hear you. I have a friend who got into sleep problems , his drivers license was suspended (I guess by recommendation from his physician) and his wife drove him to work for a few months before he got re-evaluated and his drivers license was reinstated. No joke, that may happen, so folks think about it, no work worth it.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 01:55:18 am
content: To many of us, this is just how our brain works.My advice is to not be afraid of getting professional help, if some aspect of it starts negatively affecting your life. It is no different to e.g. an athlete getting medical help with stress fractures in their bones.I did not, and instead did the typical Finnish male thing – "through the gray stone", as the saying goes – and silently just grit my teeth and redoubled my efforts, and it slowly but utterly broke me. There isn't much I regret in life, but the one thing is not acknowledging my unhealthy work environment and habits, and seeking professional help and change a decade earlier.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 02:00:51 am
content: Quote from: hans on June 13, 2023, 06:08:06 pmRemember and write this on the wall:There is no such thing as loyalty to your company. Your company will get rid of you as soon as they see it fit.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 03:29:33 am
content: Quote from: Bud on June 14, 2023, 02:00:51 amTruth!But that's not what drove me and kept me awake at night. I just couldn't quit thinking about a problem. Even after it had already been solved or had been irrelevant by changing something else.I found that one thing helped was to stop working on something when I had some kind of success. I used to just press on to the next part of the problem but I found that if I quit and walked away after having some success, that I could sleep better that night. The last big headache (problem) that I had took me about six days to fully resolve but I only worked on it for anywhere from a few minutes to a couple of hours per day. But it didn't tie me up in knots thinking about it.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 04:11:14 am
content: There is very little or no "company" loyalty. But individual managers/owners may show loyalty.What does exist is evaluation of value. Often done poorly, but companies want to have high production per pay employees. If it takes off hour work to be recognized as high value you have to do your own evaluation of whether the job is worth it to you. You have to consider pay, security, enjoyment of the work and a variety of other things. There is no one size fits all rule for this. Someone in a job rich area, with no family obligations and a broad range of skills and interests will have greatly different answers than someone who has niche skills developed because that is his life's fascination combined with other obligations that tie them to an area or employer.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 04:59:41 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 14, 2023, 01:55:18 amWell, you wouldn't want to shut your brain off. It doesn't end well.Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 14, 2023, 01:55:18 amYeah, cheesy I know, but you should always try having a balanced life. You can't shut your brain off, but you can try getting it busy with varied things that will help it not obsessing.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 05:45:33 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 14, 2023, 04:59:41 amFor me, woodworking and other tactile and olfactory creative stuff (like cooking) does "relax" the analytical part of my mind.I know a few others who do meditation, sports (running and biking), and such; but it indeed is about "shifting balance" or "shifting gears", not so much "shut brain off" type of thing. Concentrating on the moment in particular seems to work for many.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 06:56:54 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 14, 2023, 05:45:33 amTo me it's alpinism. Tthere is nothing else from the moment you touch the rock, snow or ice, to the moment you and your partner (if applicable) have arrived to the top (and sometimes after you have descended, because you also have to climb down most of the times). Your awereness must be 100% on what's in front of you and the immediate surrounding. Work issues, relationship issues, money problems, all has to disappear, and nothing else leaves me at peace like in those hours.That said, I always wanted to get into woodworking because you still create something, but with your hands more than with your mind, and i love working with hands, but i don't have the space yet to get started.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 08:51:32 am
content: I have found that I can get some of my best ideas when I take my mind off a problem that I had been working on for hours or days. I remember once where the answer to a problem that I and others had been working on for weeks came to me while standing in line to get a sandwich for lunch. I was mentally debating chicken or roast beef.YMMV.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 01:04:11 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 14, 2023, 06:56:54 amI have that kind of relationship with several video games I play. It varies, of course; you can have anything from a quick intellectual puzzle like Sudoku, to difficult but self-paced games, to low/no pause games that strongly encourage a flow state (i.e., maybe you can pause, but it's not especially advantageous to do so).Of the middle, FTL: Faster Than Light is my example; you are not only able, but strongly encouraged, to pause often: take time targeting your weapons, assigning crew stations, ship's systems, etc. I've played through it enough times not to read and cogitate on most of the messages/events, though it's not so engaging that nothing ever crosses my mind; or I may just get up and take a break, and then other thoughts drift back in.The latter case, in the past I've played quite a lot of several FPSs. Like, I grew up on Quake 2 online multiplayer, and still play a fair bit of Classic Doom (the mods coming out these days are exquisite!). But most recently, I've been playing a lot of Rain World, a fascinating 2D survival platformer / simulated ecosystem / body horror / post-apocalyptic sci-fi game, which has more-or-less one-shot death, so, fail a jump and it's back to the start; or, just stand around too long and a giant lizard is likely to munch you (let alone if you're moving through an area strewn with them, among other hazards). It's not just that it's a challenging game, but indeed itdemandsattention, and won't let you progress until you've shown your competency, at each leg of your journey. It seems like, of the range of people I've seen playing it online, a sizable number of them are very [self admitted] ADHD brains; I'm not sure if the game specifically helps with that condition, but if nothing else, the demand for engagement seems a surprisingly effective way to engage the hyperfocus flow state characteristic of ADHD. For my part, I find I'm rarely thinking about anything else while playing, unless some bit of lore happens to twinge me just right and I have to pause and give it a think.There's probably a fair amount of merit to discussing games in this context, relating to lifestyle and relaxation, to mental health and so on. It's interesting that such things have generally been frowned upon to discuss in the past, perhaps seen as trivialities, or too off-topic; well, between societal expectations, and a growing sensitivity to our own mental health, perhaps there is room for them after all?Tim

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 01:42:50 pm
content: I find games always a funny one."You still play video games? You're 30, it has been 15 years since I last was into video games!"is very common thing to hear. But meanwhile many people set this societal expectation that board games must be fun. Ugh. Most board games would be described as Dice Simulator with lots of DLC reskins in various game formats. They are also a great way to pretend you hang out with people and then not have conversations with them.What if, when you're in the mood of "playing" something, you could learn to play something together or against each other, where your choices and outcomes are not predominantly RNG based?"But that's why I play a sport"Oh yes thats good for physical health, which games do not pose an alternative for. But I don't think many can play sports for 20hrs+ a week, unless they make it their career. Sporting excessively late at night is also a great way to wreck your sleep schedule, at least it is for me.. So I think its a supplement and not an entire substitute.Then the other day people will say: "Hey, have you seen that series/movie?"Sure, I may or may not have seen it. But personally I'm far more interested in open-world RPGs than to watch a 100% linear story. Now again, these 2 hobbies can also be supplemental as playing games can be done at a level thats more recreational than relaxational. But it depends on what type of game you pickup. I think you get the point, though.Personally I love to play simulator based games, RPGs, team-PvP or PvE, or creative-style games (Tycoons, builders, etc.). The latter can be dangerous though, as there are many games that speak for the engineering analytical mind. Its easy to get carried away and break out the calculator again to find optimal builds for XYZBut I find simulators as a great way to unwind. There is something majestic in picking up a task with no list of requirements, and just do it at whatever immersion depth you wish. I find flight simulators to be excellent for that. In no way do I have the options to be a (professional) pilot, but it fun to try and master these big machines that are out there, and try or learn something every time

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 01:47:39 pm
content: While thinking about work, I often get inspiration during non-work hours for solving a problem.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 02:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: hans on June 14, 2023, 01:42:50 pmOh yes, I've so far avoided the likes of Minecraft, Terraria, Factorio, etc. I have too strong a suspicion I would spend altogether far too much time in them!Also for those highly technical / code golfing / nerd sniping types, there's the genre of "Zach-likes" which involve programming  computers directly, or creating clever mechanisms or such. Also kinda along that line but also related to older puzzle-sim games like The Incredible Machine (ah, I remember playing that on a friend's Macintosh..!), Opus Magnum comes to mind.Or if you want a just damned clever reimagining of ye olde Sokoban block pushing game: try Baba Is You. Not so much a game to unwind, it'sveryclever at times; this is no accident as the credits is a whos-who of top puzzle crafters today, pretty much all of them had a hand in one level or another.But yeah, indeed not so much for physical health, but the mental health value of gaming is not at all to be neglected!Tim

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2023, 02:35:19 pm
content: How about, design engineers, can you turnonyour brain during work hoursI'm sure the dudes here can think of a few co-workers of whom, progressed quickly into management.Seriously though, such is the choice between having a job and having a vocation. If you never think about your tasks outside of working hours then you've got yourself a job. And in ten year's time you'll still be there, happily doing exactly thesamejob. A vocation is not something you do just for the money, you do it because you have a passion for it. Nursing, teaching, sports, writing and performing arts, are all examples where people are doing it for the passion and not necessarily the pay (especially musicians). Ergo, a job is what you do but a vocation is what you are.Ask, would you be a creative EE if you were not paid? Of course you would. Be happy, you're an engineer, and you're thinking like an engineer. Even if the engineering volume is abit too loudin your head right now. I have no idea what your thing is, but whatever it is you find, watch out for interests that might become your next vocation. Or evenvacation, if you love doing them too much.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 02:19:44 am
content: Quote from: AndyBeez on June 14, 2023, 02:35:19 pmFor some in each of those professions it is a job. Though that is certainly rare in music.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 04:31:25 am
content: I basically just switch from doing stuff for work to doing stuff for personal projects.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 05:52:49 am
content: I must check my notes where were I and how was it.I can also drive a car and suddenly notice that oh dear, I'm already here.Seems that I can at least switch off of something.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 08:29:29 am
content: It's only natural something we are passionate about consumes us and like the skills we have learnt we also need learn how to manage it.It's right and proper to be the best we can but at what personal cost ?We all have our ways to manage the work and we each are very different with vastly different techniques which comes full circle to learning how to manage your time best.I decided the most valuable part of my day was rest, proper rest and with a less strenuous day than the physical work I once did sleep didn't always come easy.A dear uncle would say, if you can't sleep you haven't earned it !Nowdays a double or triple nightcap is my right medicine and just before bed while watching whatever crap is on TV or a session watching some YouTube unrelated to your daily chores.It's just another skill we need learn, good luck finding your remedy.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 12:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2023, 05:56:08 amyesterday I was offered a NOS Campy BioTherm water bottle for cheap, and ... instead of looking at its cool 90s design which perfectly fits my titanium 90s road bicycle frame, I immediately took my smartphone to find a "datasheet" ...The man looked at me, without saying a word but he had the face of wondering "hey buddy, do you seriously need to look at the datasheet to buy my water bottle?" - while, in my corner, I just didn't even think that it could make him embarrassed.Instead, in my head, I was just wondering why it was so light with the suspect that didn't use steel and glass, and when I found out it was completely plastic, I started thinking that thermal insulation with polyurethane foam is less efficient than a glass vessel with double walls where the space between the walls is a vacuum which reduces the heat loss due to conduction and convection.As a result, the guy changed his mind about the possible discount and even asked me for more money.Moral of the story is, reasoning like an engineer with a trader can be counterproductive

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 06:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on June 15, 2023, 12:29:49 pmI disagree. To me, the moral is that one should consider interacting with traders (and other "normies") as an engineering problem (for oneself to solve); and investigate which kind of interaction patterns yield the best mutually beneficial results. Pulling up your cellphone instantly doomed you to failure, I'm afraid.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 08:53:56 pm
content: I used to, especially when I was facing interesting challenges. You get the "flow", psychology term, look it up.It's easier if you work for a bad employer, you can just say that you don't care, and the brain switches off. Most days I can turn it off 5 minutes after leaving work. Physically separating the space where you work also helps. Have a separate desk for work at home situations, don't do anything else there. It's the desk where you are at work, and nowhere else at home. If you have a laptop, keep it there, and have personal computers and laptops, not just the company one.I only suggest doing this if you are satisfied with your job position. If you want to go ahead, spending the extra time might be very well worth it to get better results at work and to get ahead, or to get a raise. Nobody got to the top of their field by spending 8 hours a day doing something, the competition is just too much. You need to be exceptionably smart, driven and conscientiousness to do that. At 9 years you might be already there at your current employer, so it could be time to sit back, especially if the pay is good. If the pay isn't good, then ask for raise or gtfo from there asap.And channel that energy of unpaid work into something else. Side job, hobby, family, working out.

author: MMMarco
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 09:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on June 15, 2023, 12:29:49 pmYou should've asked him instead of pulling out your smartphone.You most likely gave an impression of distrust and got "punished" by it so to speak.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2023, 09:14:20 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 14, 2023, 02:19:52 pmAll these are great. I've sank 420 hours into Kerbal space program this year, learned orbital mechanics.2 years ago I was playing this game called Bitburner, which is a javascript programming game, similar to Uplink, with some idle game mechanics. According to Steam I ran that for 1200 hours, though probably more than half of that I was AFK. I went in not knowing any javascript (and kinda loathing the language).And earlier, Minecraft with mods can get pretty crazy. There are mods for automation, you can build nuclear reactors with temperature control, automatic processing machines with electricity network and automatic sorting and mining. There was a programmable "turle" that you could program in LUA which you could use to make world devouring Neumann machines. I know the game looks silly, but it has a lot of depth with mods.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 09:03:47 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 15, 2023, 06:57:56 pmAfter the previous failure, as a compromise, I told the trader "I specifically want one of these" - showing a couple of pic of the Bianchi Champion bicycle water bottle - "find it, and make your price"That's what he is very happy to hear- the product name/product and vendor id, instead of the product specs- a pic of the product, instead of the product datasheet- have a generous margin of gain to make his price (maybe that's what widens his smile the most)The Bianchi Champion bicycle water bottle is less aesthetically cool than the Campagnolo BioTherm because it is not aerodynamic, and it's also more fragile because it is made of glass and steel, almost like a common camping thermos, so if it falls it breaks up, also 100g heavier, but better for me because it's able to supply fresh water for many more hours!Problem solved

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 10:14:04 am
content: Can't shut down, and don't want either. It's a valuable skill, not a bad thing. You are concentrated on the project. If you are not getting stressed about it, there's no problem and nothing to fix. Changing yourself into someone else, who is able to let go of work, could be more stressful.Your paycheck should really reflect that skill, though. Working as freelancer consultant/designer could work for you better; else, if you self-report working hours, you should be accounting for these mental work hours, too. If bureaucracy prevents this, then circumvent the system, misreport the status so that you are actually further ahead than you tell anyone, finish your work early and work on your own projects or whatever you want for the rest of the time.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 10:16:36 am
content: Quote from: Bud on June 13, 2023, 04:25:32 amDisconnecting from the workplace, workplace rules, communication, emails, calls etc. is extremely important, I agree with that. But do let your mind work on the technical details. When it happens outside office hours, your mind is free to explore all the ideas, and this reduces stress and ultimately benefits the workplace, too.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 10:24:04 am
content: Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2023, 05:20:12 pmIt's not crazy, and you definitely should be doing tolerance stack-up if that is what you want to do. You are full-grown adult who can make your own decisions. Your nephew will have his 3rd and 4th birthday party anyway, and you are just one random old guy there, but that tolerance stack-up is a unique and important problem right now and right here, way more important than some made-up social constructs.And I'm serious. It's different if we are talking about yourownson, then you are responsible to teaching him too how to do the tolerance stack-up, which is a win-win. See the difference? Would others let you explain your stack-up to your nephew in detail? If not, your presence is not valued as that important, and no one can demand you change yourself into some kind of statue who just sits there acting as a non-playable character.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 10:34:08 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 14, 2023, 05:45:33 amI find walking in the forests, mushroom/blueberry hunting etc. extremely valuable, not because they would "shut down" that analytical side of mind, not at all, quite the opposite; but such activities have the tendency of shutting the arbitrarylimitsdown. Such limits are,* How long does it take to implement?* How about the deadline?* Do we have a budget for this?* What would customers say?* Do we need this at all?* Does this conform to MISRA, TISAX or whatever BS* Could you please not write this in C?and similar bullcrap everyone has to deal with their workat some point, usually during office hours... But when picking blueberries, your mind is allowed to store an angle in 256/360 degree units to remove all wrapping logic, and the next minute, if that leads your mind into calculating how much thermal energy can you store if you excavate a 10x10x10 meter hole in your backyard and store water in it, then so be it, this is important right now. After letting your engineering mind flow freely for 5 hours straight, usually it results some significantly important idea which is useful and also happens to tick those stupid limit checkboxes. Of course not always, and that's fine too, because you are not responsible to anyone about your own mind.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2023, 12:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2023, 03:39:35 amThere is not a work related mental issue a "after work beer" cant fix.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2023, 10:21:17 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on June 16, 2023, 10:24:04 amHaha. I get your general sentiment. I guess my point is: It’s not that these thought experiments/musings are not important to me. They are, after all, what the brain seeks for some sort of mental satisfaction. But, it can be sort of selfish in certain circumstances. Letting my brain do the things it wants to is easy. Just saying, I *want* to be present for these other moments, and to make sure I am there for family and friends during their important and difficult moments. Not that you were implying the opposite of that..

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 06:18:43 am
content: What did you try to make your life during non-work hours a little more interesting? Can't you find another adult who forces you to be present by talking to each other?Regards, Dieter

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:21:07 am
content: Quote from: MT on June 16, 2023, 12:07:22 pmYou are so wrong it is not even funny.Granted, you have to have an unhealthy attitude towards work and work-related issues first; but then, the end result can be a burned out husk of a man. Take a guess why I know that for a fact.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 07:55:47 am
content: For the OP, maybe try getting a vacation, or a new hobby, something different than the profession.

author: m k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 10:56:54 am
content: There can also be things that one must do but can't.Real outside of one's head or not is irrelevant.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 04:31:46 pm
content: By the way, thanks for sharing all your ideas and advice. It is good to hear similar stories and experiences. Don’t have many people in my life who I can relate to on this. Not planning on running away from engineering either; I think that would lead to intellectual death on some level. I also have lots of hobbies, some technical, some more artistic, many a blend of the two. Maybe I need to be more purposeful about working on those. And it is up to me to decide what balance of work related stress and intellectual stimulation/nourishment works for me.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 04:38:38 pm
content: Physical exercise is necessary to supply adequate oxygen and neurotrophic factors to the brain. The more strenuous (heart rate maximizing) the better.Around 90% of frontal cortex neurons are inhibitory: it's precisely the experience of racing thoughts and inability to "shut off" that signal cerebral degeneration.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 06:12:48 pm
content: I remember reading a report 20 or 30 years ago about a high fraction of unmarried men at HP. They hired unmarried men intentionally. For somebody affected by such situations: It's not a personal disposition but a disposition of commerce in general. It's not enough to say: I am feeling uncomfortable but it's my problem. We need a little bit of resistance to protect our private lives.Last year one of my neighbours started inviting me to walk an hour or two in the nearby forest. I thought maybe he wanted some advice. It turned into a habit and we went maybe once a week. Meanwhile he left and moved somewhere else.Regards, Dieter

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 12:15:13 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 18, 2023, 07:21:07 amGood grief! Ok so you obviously had to many beers and didnt understand the concept of it all and your work place was a hell hole to begin with as you are not supsed to have a bottle every day.No wonder you become a husk of a man.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 12:47:35 am
content: Quote from: MT on June 19, 2023, 12:15:13 amNope, didn't drink then or now at all. Then, just because. Now, I don't use anything stronger than sugar and caffeine, just to help keep my brain chemistry working the best it can.Quote from: MT on June 19, 2023, 12:15:13 amYes, yes it was,for me. For a different type of person, perhaps not.For someone else, this kind of environment would have posed no problems at all. Me, I am a problem solver, not a salesperson or contract negotiatior. One university lecturer / artist I worked with commented that they "loved working with me, becausenothingis impossible". Combine that with an upbringing that required oneself to belittle the amount of work achieved, and utter rejection of properly marketing oneself and one's skills, and I was like a square peg in a triangular hole. A silent peg that nobody ever noticed even being there.Yes, you can say that it was all my own fault. The problem, really, is that I did not recognize the imbalance (of how I did not fit in that kind of a work culture) nor the need for rebalancing myself.Switching gears, doing something else that lets these aspects of ones own mind refocus and concentrate on something different but equally interesting and meaningful –– again, for me, tactile and olfactory information makes a huge difference ––, is the first step. It also makes it easier to recognize whole-life imbalances. A major error for me was to redouble my work efforts without stacking stock of the situation first, and reject all hobbies –– life –– outside work.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 10:11:14 am
content: I don't get the joke about after work beers. Or was it actually serious advice? Can't tell. Because if it is, then it sounds quite cynical to me (e.g. as far from the truth as one could be).Quote from: helius on June 18, 2023, 04:38:38 pmBut those symptoms also are signals for a great number of other diseases. Like bipolar disorder (mania) or autism and ADHD (hyperfixation) to name a few.I agree with you that staying physically fit is essential to keep the brain fit. But marrying 1 symptom directly with a severe disease doesn't sound right. Otherwise the headache I have now could also be a symptom of a far progressed brain tumor.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 11:27:00 am
content: Quote from: hans on June 19, 2023, 10:11:14 amI mean, self-medication is a thing. Ethanol is one of the worst medicines you can take, but, it's legal, and socially permitted [in the western world, largely], or even encouraged, so, there it is.Self-abuse is often a response to external abuse, whether from a personal relationship, or the ennui (and worse) of this capitalist hellscape we live in. Or specific conditions (depression), which is basically the same thing but done to oneself biochemically (give or take exacerbation by outside forces too). Tons of people (and media especially, and the former, I suspect, largely because of the latter) stigmatize drug use, thinking it's a failing of a person's moral fiber to give in to such addictive products, and therefore theydon't deserveof compassion, they've brought it on themselves. A very old fashioned, Victorian interpretation.Whereas if you actually looked at the history of these people, you'd largely see they fell into drug use, whether by peer pressure (particularly when younger, more susceptible to it) or by stress or abuse. And social stress will be a strong factor in peer pressure itself taking that dark turn, so it almost seems redundant to mention. (Indeed on a system level, it's irrelevant; we can assume some level of peer pressure exists in a population regardless, and simply consider overall stress of the population and its response to it. Maybe it has individual effects, but individuals on the whole will have better outcomes more often if that stress is addressed first.)So it's no accident that many drug users are in poverty, homeless, abused, mentally unwell. Many may become unemployable as a result of such circumstances, making it a positive feedback loop that therefore needs additional force to break (rehab programs), in addition to dealing with the underlying causes.Anyway, not to get overly serious here... Just to say that, the seemingly casual response of "drinking away the work day" is indeed a normal response; a dark one, but a human one. The severity of that response can range anywhere from "out with the mates", to, eventually shivved in a dark alley over a dimebag of meth or whatever. The same force that might tempt you to have something "just to unwind", is the same force that tempts others to much darker fates.And, not to say that a little ethanol here or there is necessarily a self-abusive thing, not to the most severe degree the term brings to mind. But when we have a conscious understanding that it's incrementally bad for overall health, and continue to do it anyway, that's still a very slight but definite harm we do to ourselves. And that's just the easiest case, you know, you have a couple drinks, you feel fun for a couple hours, no hangover, no consequences, other than the nebulous idea that you've been told it's bad. Which sounds more like other people trying to guilt-trip you, you don't feel any worse from it personally, right? But there's also the level of, maybe you do drink enough to get a hangover, and now the physical after-effects are manifest, and you still do it on an irregular or greater basis, despite knowing it's bad, and now the abuse is clearly both physical and mental. When I say "abuse" here, I mean anything from a sliding scale of "knowing it's bad but it doesn't feel bad overall" to "constant state of drunken fog mixed with cirrhosis".So; it's largely a response. It might not be a healthy one, but it can happen. And if it gets really bad, it's a gateway to other and worse kinds; it's a sliding scale. I would suggest monitoring your alcohol consumption, and using that as a hint that, maybe you should start looking for a new job. Or family or "friends", or place to live; whatever the stressors may be.(For my part, can confirm: my alcohol budget shrank notably when I quit my first job. Haven't been  employed since.)Tim

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 08:08:18 pm
content: I think I'm echoing what a number of others have said, in that I think that thiscanbe a good thing, to the degree that it's 'natural' where you aren't feeling pressured or expected to do it as part of the job, and it doesn't otherwise interfere with your life. There are plenty of times where you don't really otherwise benefit from attending to something you need to do (washing the dishes, in the shower, taking the garbage out...) and there's quite a bit of anecdotal evidence, as well as some more formal study, that points to this kind of "letting things simmer in your mind" as a positive part of creative problem solving.That said, there's one thing I find important: If in the course of doing this I have an idea or solution or any kind of thing I need to come back to and isn't just idle contemplating, or when I'm in the middle of thought and need to set it aside to pay attention to something else, Icapture it in writingsomeplace that:Doesn't mix/overlap with personal life stuff, so it stays out of my way until I'm ready.I know I will come back to 'on the clock' when I am ready to follow up.My go-to is just sending myself a quick email from my phone to my work email so I'll see it next time I log in to do work stuff. But a note taking app, a dedicated notebook, or even just a pile of stickies or something, could work just as well.If I don't do this I find that my mind knows there's something it needs to remember, and will kind of keep coming back to that to keep it fresh... leading me to dwell on it longer than necessary or to feel like I need to sit down and actually "do it" now. Getting it written down in a system where I know I'll come back to it when I need to helps me get the benefit of this kind of thought without it becoming a burden.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 08:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 19, 2023, 11:27:00 amYes, and there are a number of reasons why. One of them, and maybe the most common, is that it allows us to regain control over the pain we feel.Essentially, we "cover" (mask) the pain inflicted to us by external factors with a pain that we inflict to ourselves, which we feel we have control over and which is more predictable, and thus usually more bearable.Note that the fact we have more control over self-inflicted pain/abuse is usually only temporary. Just consider how much control you have over your drinking habits once they have become an addiction.But at least in theory, we're still potentially in control. Feels less desperate.Pain masking with another kind of pain is a very common behavior, and it works to a degree, until the masking stuff gets worse than the original source of pain.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 02:49:35 am
content: Thanks, that's a trenchant observation.On a less morbid note, it is similar to how an itch can be relieved by a counterirritant.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 06:21:48 am
content: Quote from: abeyer on June 19, 2023, 08:08:18 pmExcellent advice.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 02:57:48 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on June 16, 2023, 09:03:47 amstrategic success, it worked!!!not one, but two items got -20% off!!

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 05:34:54 pm
content: When I was 27 I started the lap swimming thing, largely possible due to somewhat unique flex schedules, that employer established. That was the start, of manipulating my day and long commutes in often horrific traffic, both sluggish traffic and dangerous fast chaos traffic. (That's where you could witness someone risking life and limb to gain a lane change or other trivial advantage, when traffic flow gets fast. Rain? They (drivers generally) didn't care about rain or safety.So, that heavy regular exercise helped a lot with being able to get to sleep.Worse, though, than electronics development stresses, are the various office interpersonal interactions and the need to have a career interaction, with large corporate entities, and electronics has a newness compared with more 'mature' markets, but the corporate novelty is lessened these past years...not so much like 1978 I guess.Insomnia in itself, without work stresses can be a challenge, but medical folks have various advice like reducing the room light, keeping temperatures down, etc.Office politics is a bigger and less tolerable stress source, than basic product development.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 07:09:47 pm
content: Personally, I think people become engineers precisely because they can't stop their brain from solving problems, even during 'down' time.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 09:17:08 am
content: Quote from: Microdoser on June 22, 2023, 07:09:47 pmOr scientists.Although I'm not sure "they cannot stop" is the best description; more like "they don't want to try to stop", i.e. they find it a comfortable, natural way of approaching the world. I know I do.Of course, when you decide you want to try something different, it can be hard, but that tends to be true for any new behavioural pattern.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 04:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: karpouzi9 on June 23, 2023, 04:26:57 pmUnless there is a serious emergency (fire, explosion, etc.), I agree about 3 am e-mails.Some people are awake at 3 am, especially in different countries and time zones, and send the e-mail while they are awake.When working with a Japanese company in the fax days, we exploited the time difference:I would send a question there at the end of business in Chicago, the recipient would have a full working day to write an answer, and I would receive my answer by the beginning of business on the next day.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 06:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on June 23, 2023, 09:17:08 amI'm not addicted, I can stop any time I like

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2023, 07:46:20 pm
content: 5 years ago, in the surgery room, not under total anesthesia, so I was consciousme: hi Doctor, nice to see you.surgeon: you look at me with a strange expressionme: I was actually taking a look around, and I see there is a monitor, can I watch it?surgeon: what?me: I'd like to see how you operatesurgeon: this is a full prosthesis(1), we have to open the leg, and there will be a lot of raw meat ...me: ... raw meat(I smiled at this expression, thinking about how, with the scientific method,I first clean the inside of the turkey at Christmas, and then put it in the oven)surgeon: are you really sure you have the right stomach to handle it?me: sure, but... can I also ask a few questions?surgeon: um?me: about the titanium part, about the tolerances of the couplingssurgeon: X_Xme: and about the torque wrenches I saw on the table, ...surgeon to the anesthetist: I think this guy wants to steal my job ...anesthetist to the surgeon: umm, I am not sure ...anesthetist to me: can I ask you a question?me: sureanesthetist: I guess you are an engineer, right?I wonder how he figured it outedit:(1) hip prosthesis

author: Georgy.Moshkin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2023, 02:51:32 am
content: no need to shut off anything if you do not have an anxiety, insomnia, panic attacks. But if you have some of these and yet have a good planning skills, good experience with solving engineering problems, then maybe it's time to shut off the work, not the brain. Brain should go low power by itself when there is a plan and dividing of tasks in smaller pieces.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2023, 05:16:45 am
content: I DO have a related job and stress thing that's been helpful to myself, during sleep time:In a stressful setting (at work), when tossing and turning at end of sleep time, (assuming you aren't doomed to respond to alarm clock madness), there is a technique for how to start your next day. In other words, for the transition you would need to make, to wake up, get up, and start your new day.It works like this:Suppose, as you've been glancing at your bedside clock, and must get out of bed soon, suppose you have been starting to run the day's tasks ahead, in your mind....Messed up this, and messed up that. Now, as all those thoughts circulate, what you want to do is WAIT for a positive thought and situation, like suppose a co-worker, 'Jim' has done a few really good management items at the job, and now this Jim guy is building a new manufacturing fixture, or something...That's it: that's the point in time, (laying there still in bed), that you should start up, rise up and get moving, on that positive thought. Doesn't have to be spectacular, just maybe a little smile, and thinking positively, " That Jim really is going to make this organization move up to a better positioning, in marketplace". Whatever, but you get the idea, just use some minor positive aspect, as a sort of trigger, saying 'Ok that's it, I should get out of bed, now'.(Starting day grumpy isn't going to help).

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2023, 05:43:46 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on June 23, 2023, 07:46:20 pmPeople think that anaesthetic was invented for patient care and comfort. It was so the doctors can concentrate without the patient doing so much screaming, or worse, being a chatty one.