PCB Software choices in 2013 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2013, 02:12:44 am
content: So Google has stacks of opinions about different PCB software but technology moves pretty quick and reading opinions of software that has been updated a thousand times since the posts doesn't seem like it's worth putting too much stock in.Anyway, here's my current situation. I'm in OSX, and would like to stay that way because Windows makes me want to punch babies within 8 seconds of launching it. That said, if I'm really, REALLY shooting myself in the foot here and losing good options I suppose I could buy Windows and run it in on my Mac or even buy a cheap PC strictly for doing this stuff. I'm generally doing really small boards, mainly small audio circuits like guitar pedals, microphone preamps, metering systems etc., mixing and matching between SMD and through hole (though lately I've been going back to through hole a lot), generally single sided and so far always just etched at home (though soon I'd like to start sending a few things to board manufacturers). Simple stuff, no need for complex 3D modelling or anything. No need for autorouting either, I always prefer doing it manually.Up until now I've used Eagle Light because that's the first thing I found when I started experimenting with this stuff (well, after Sharpies on copper board at least...). I'm reaching the point now where I'm getting a fair few requests for custom equipment and I don't want to be a dick in regards to the Eagle Light non-commercial thing, so it's time to upgrade. The problem though, is that I can't bring myself to punch my credit card details into the Eagle order form, it always just seems far too buggy and quirky to justify proper money. I dicked around with Kicad on Raspberry Pi a few weeks ago and I'd honestly rank my Eagle experience lower than that so far, it really feels like a dated, open source kludge. I've used a bunch of versions and updates now, but it never really seems to get any better. But on the other hand, I feel like I know it fairly well at this point and can work pretty quick. So before I drop cash on something that will always annoy the crap out of me with glitches, I figured I ought to look at my other options.Thoughts?

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2013, 03:12:07 am
content: DipTrace has an OSX version.Kicad is a moving target and always changing, not really something you want for designs you'll be fabbing 5 years from now.Eagle is pretty established, dunno if there is a native OSX version.Altium is Windows only and pretty overkill for what you need.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2013, 03:30:58 am
content: Yes, Eagle has native OS X version (which I assume is what the OP is using). It works exactly the same as the Windows version - with full file compatibility (they are just XML files anyways).I don't really have too many complaints about Eagle myself. I managed to crash it yesterday for the first time in a long while. Pasted some text into a package description that I copied from a datasheet PDF. Apparently there was some hidden characters in the data that Eagle didn't like, and would trigger a crash when I tried to use that newly created part. It was easy to fix though, since the file parsing error gave me a line number and column number to look for in the data file. Deleted the unhappy chars with a text editor and everything is fine again.I'm also using the free Lite version, but likely to buy a paid license soon because I am getting tired of forcing all my designs into tiny ass little boards.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2013, 06:02:48 pm
content: Diptrace forever.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 09:49:04 am
content: DipTrace is ok for small things. When you get into bigger things (like 200+ comonent boards) stuff like DipTrace, Eagle and Kicad doesn't cut it. I've tried to convince myself to use DipTrace but once I got a bigger project I had no choice but to return to Altium. Mac is NOT a system for engineering, deal with it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 10:07:21 am
content: Altium are supposed to be coming out with an entry level package soon. My educated guess is they still have no idea what customers want and will screw it up, but I'd like to be proven wrong.Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 07:14:45 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on September 13, 2013, 09:49:04 amMaybe is that I've designed only small PCBs, but why then they sell editions that handle up to 2000 pads and 6 layers?

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2013, 10:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: mcinque on September 13, 2013, 07:14:45 pmJust because Eagle supports 16 layers doesn't mean you would WANT to use it.I would be absolutely terrified at being forced to use it past 4 layers...

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 09:42:51 am
content: In our company they use this incredibly expensive custom CAD tool and I hear the engineers swearing and cursing on it every day.My guess is that there is no holy grail PCB SW out there, everyone of them has it's own annoyances but you only find out when you use it.If you want to produce for the end of the year I would stick with what you know and have the experience with.And look and experiment with other SW if you have the time for it.BTW: As far as I can see, the eagly hobbieist version has a non commercial form and agreement but on their site I do NOT see this non commercial stuf for the Light version:So if your commercial design has enough with 1 schematic sheet, 2 signal layers and 100x80mm routing area, you might be set, but check with cadsoft to be sure.http://www.cadsoftusa.com/shop/pricing/https://shop.cadsoftusa.com/en.html

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 10:10:58 pm
content: IMHO you should try and make at least two projects with a schematics/PCB package before buying. The biggest pitfall is not to read the manual and therefore dismiss a package because you don't understand the workflow right away.

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 11:18:53 pm
content: I agree. This is one case that RTFM goes a very long way, even though most of us probably think (maybe true?) that we are generally smart enough to not need the manual most of the time.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2013, 11:19:40 pm
content: QuoteHave you paid the $49 for the non-freeware "lite" version? AFAIK, that's permissible to use for commercial endeavors.

author: John steave
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 30, 2013, 04:16:19 pm
content: Mainly you may try to build your pcb knowledge for complete project perhaps it may be helpful for you.Thanks!!!

author: UnaClocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2013, 12:19:55 am
content: I can't get over how well Eagle works with OSX. Specifically, the multitouch track pad on the laptops (I've got one on my desktop too). Two fingers navigates around the board smoothly when zoomed in. Pinch to zoom in or out.. It's just so natural and intuitive.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2013, 12:30:12 am
content: Quote from: UnaClocker on October 01, 2013, 12:19:55 amHaven't heard those words used together before...KiCad, any platform: Scroll (two-finger swipe) to zoom. Ctrl-scroll to pan horizontally, shift-scroll to pan vertically, and you probably already have your fingers near the keyboard anyway.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2013, 01:06:50 am
content: Quotelol sarcasm detected.I didn't even know about the control + scroll, I tend to just zoom in and out moving the mouse where I want it.

author: jbe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2013, 09:09:14 am
content: I'm currently using Eagle 5.x running on osx.Did anyone manage to get KiCad running properly under osx? I would like to give it a shot, as i like its open nature.As for panning i very much prefer clicking+dragging with my middle mouse button (a.k.a. Scrollwheel nowadays), this also seems to work for other of cad-tools (e.g. autocad)

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 09:51:10 pm
content: We can't forget, the nice and freehttp://www.designspark.com/eng/page/designspark-pcb-home-pageIt's well worth the money,

author: sarm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2013, 10:38:13 pm
content: Many years ago i used Tango for DOS, more recently had been using Sprint-Layout from Abacom, it is nice, but i feel like i am working with Corel Draw and after some projects i think i need something better.I don't feel like Eagle will be a good rote to go, anyone as some feedback on the designspark ?Or i should wait for the altium free version

author: UnaClocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2013, 09:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: jbe on October 07, 2013, 09:09:14 amWow, 5.x? Why? I'm a bit new to this thing, I started with 6.x. Did they change something with 6 that you didn't like? Even just the few versions of 6 that I've been through, they've added a couple features that I wouldn't want to go back to an earlier version of 6 and lose out on.

author: Alphatronique
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 04:45:23 pm
content: If you look for something more professionalwhit lot of nice feature you may take a look to Zuken Cadstarit same price range as Altium ,Pads and similar ..what i really like was it scripting ability everything you may make from GUIwas doable by phyton scripting or OLE ,and have really nice report scriptingby push of a bouton i program my MyData pick place from my PCB CAD ;-)all that scripting have permit to me to setup a system that user use a online web storefor select schematic part it what and in a snap i able to generate a custom hand routed pcbrelying on cadstar Re-use block and scripting ( that "service" will launch in january)and finally please take time to look this ,i use that kind of trick every weekRouting with the CADSTAR Place & Route Editoronly bad point is for now it have better support in europe that in america