Chokes and Inductors ... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Slothie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 08:44:23 am
content: ... are they the same thing? If you look at the component catalogues they seem to make a distinction, but what actually is the difference? I have a couple of axial chokes or 5.6uH and I need a ~5uH inductor for a switch mode voltage converter. Is it going to do? Or is there something special about the cores in "chokes" rather than inductors?Ian

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 08:51:04 am
content: Same thing, like capacitors are often referred to as condensers.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 09:03:10 am
content: Inductors and chokes alike will have characteristics other than their inductance but the two words are synonymous and often used based on context

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 09:10:44 am
content: They are both the same thing, however I have only seen inductors called Chokes when used in high power devices such as UPS units.Regards

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 09:24:54 am
content: Chokes, transformers, fly-backs, toroidals, ferrite beads, coils, etc., AREinductors, which, as a term, denotes the family including any passive electrical component with inductive behavior and properties.'Inductor' is a general term, like capacitor, resistor, semiconductor, etc.-George

author: TerminalJack505
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 09:29:20 am
content: I've always wondered about this too. I think the term 'choke' is used for a specific mode of operation for an inductor. That is, the term 'choke' is used when an inductor is being used for filtering purposes.If this is the case then I think therecanbe a difference between a choke and an inductor in that a 'choke' may (purposely) have a lower Q factor than a traditional 'inductor'.You would be better off using a choke (aka low Q factor inductor) for EMI filtering, for example. The lower Q factor will cause the absorbed high-frequency energy to be dissipated as heat rather than returning the energy back to the circuit.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 09:44:05 am
content: Chokes are inductors designed for high DC current (much higher than their RF current). They also have high losses since they are used as filters they need to block and/or dissipate RF, not store energy efficiently.Normal inductors are designed for DC current either smaller or of the same order as the AC current.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 07:42:53 pm
content: A Choke is not intended to be part of a LC circuit, but being of a LARGE size compared to inductors of the same rating as they dissipate heat in the AC inputA choke is basically a AC Choke, it literallychokesthe AC and dissipates off the excess ACThey really aren't meant to be a store and release sort of thing, it's more of a lossy inductor

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 08:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: TerminalJack505 on July 21, 2012, 09:29:20 amYep, if an inductor is used to block high frequencies it's called a choke, e.g. a common mode choke.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2012, 10:14:07 pm
content: Alright! Chokes are not only the inductors that 'choke' (kill, block or eliminate) the AC component in DC lines or the HF component in LF lines. The older members might remember with a smile theVK200 RFC(RFC: Radio Frequency Choke) that was widely used in the RF equipment of the seventies/eighties.It took me a while to find a picture of the infamous VK200 RF choke:But chokes are not only used for filtering. For example, the DC-DC flyback converters are called 'ringing choke converters' because the flyback inductor is not really a transformer; it is a choke actually (we should better call it a coil), often with a primary and a secondary winding, or with extra auxiliary secondaries. Why the flyback coil cannot be called a transformer? Simply, because in transformers the energy transfer happens directly from the primary to the secondary windings and at the same time. In the flyback, instead, the primary does not transfer energy to the secondary but it charges the magnetic material of the inductor, while the magnetics are discharged by the use of the secondary winding of the flyback inductor.Now, if we can use the same exactly inductor we have just discussed at the flyback example above, and we use it in forward topology, only then we could call this specific inductor a transformer; but we cannot do that because a transformer needs a magnetic medium of different properties than those of a flyback coil.This is an excerpt ofa piece I wroteabout flyback converters:"Actually, [at the Flyback Topology] we are not talking about a transformer because we do not collect the energy as we are pushing it to the primary winding; this is the Forward Topology. Instead, we collect the energy stored in the magnetic medium, which is the ferritic core. So, this is two coils coupled magnetically together using the same ferritic core, where the primary creates energy that is stored in the visible air-gap of the ferrite core (or in the invisible countless tiny gaps created by the bonding material of the ferritic powder the ferrite cores are made of), and we discharge the coil's energy by using the second coil (the "secondary"). This is the so-called Flyback Topology that energised the electron beam of the TVs, where it was firstly used commercially and, thus, became widely known; the electron beam that "flew back" to the next line of the field/frame during the blanking time after rendering the end of the previous line."-George

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2012, 02:21:46 pm
content: Quote from: A Hellene on July 21, 2012, 10:14:07 pmI think it's called a storage throttle. But with a primary and a secondary winding it's a transformer ;-) The difference is how we drive that transformer, i.e with a nice AC causing a magnetic flux or with DC impulses while storing their energy in a magnetic field. If I would take the flyback coil from above (primary and secondary windings) and drive it with AC there will be a magnetic flux inducing voltage into the secondary winding, matching your description of the classic AC transformer.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2012, 05:52:46 pm
content: A coil having both a primary and a secondary windings is not necessarily a transformer; it could either be a transformer or a flyback or just two coils magnetically coupled together (i.e. the SEPIC dual inductor). What makes the distinction is not how the primary is driven, but how the energy is collected from the secondary.Inductors and their windings have a polarity. Assuming that the primary has a positive drive, we can collect the energy from the secondary either by using both the positive and the negative phase outputs, or, by the use of rectifiers, the positive phase output only or the negative phase output only.In the first two cases we have a forward topology and the inductor can safely be called a transformer because the energy transfer is direct and immediate from the primary to the magnetically coupled secondary.In the third case we have a flyback topology, and the inductor can not be called a transformer any more because there is not any direct energy transfer from the primary to the secondary windings; instead there is energy storage from the primary to the magnetic medium and energy harvesting from the magnetics by both the primary and the secondary windings after a delay determined by the driver and the inductor circuit resonance, where the stored energy will pick the easiest path to flow no matter if this path is through the primary or the secondary or through both the windings. The most simple examples of this topology are the boost/buck/buck-boost converters, where the inductors they use do not have a secondary winding.Of course, conventionally, we call every inductor with more than one windings, a transformer.-George

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2012, 06:14:36 pm
content: I have seen a few designs of TV sets that use the forward and flyback sides. A single winding that delivers +200V and -20V from the same winding. You look carefully at the component list and see the diodes are both 1000V silicon fast recovery diodes, and a supply that supplies 200V at 100mA and -20V 1A, but uses 3A diodes for both units, and they run hot for both diodes.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2012, 06:22:19 pm
content: Choke's is the early or original term for an inductance much in the same way as condenser was the early or original term for a capacitor. The choke was seen back then as throttling or choking the flow of electricity in much the same fashion as a condenser (or Condensor as it was spell't then) was seen as literally condensing electricity.

author: Kartika
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 02:22:23 pm
content: Hi, Is did anyone measure how much induction there is for example @100 MHz vk100 vk200

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 02:46:47 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on July 22, 2012, 06:22:19 pmIn the past a common appliance was to use a choke as part of an LC filter in a linear DC power supply, typically for tube amplifiers (where high voltage and low current was needed). There's where I've seen the term choke used the most. The difference to other inductors in this appliance is typically that the choke is built like a small transformer with very large inductance (up to tens of henrys), small current and most important, an air gap in the core to prevent saturation from the DC current. The size of the air gap can be calculated for the specific DC current that is needed. Without an air gap, the inductance will fall dramatically at higher loads. Such chokes can still be successfully used in linear power supplies, if the current demand is within the choke spec. For instance Hammond, Edcor, Lundahl and other transformer manufacturers have DC chokes in their sortiment.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 08:02:26 pm
content: From what i understand a choke is meant to handle power, like a power supply and alike.And an inductor is the general term that is used everywhere and sometimes interchangeably with choke.Personally i don't use the word "choke", i use the word "inductor" purely because i like it better.A choke is an inductor but an inductor is not necessarily a choke i think.Also what about potentiometers vs rheostats?Regarding the condenser and capacitor question, i've only heard the word "condenser" used in the context of old tube amps because it's (IIRC) the old word for capacitor.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 08:33:11 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on February 20, 2022, 08:02:26 pmYes, it's the old word for capacitor. In Europe, variations of the Latin word "condensator" seems to be used in most languages (kondensator/condensatore/condensateur/kondensaattori etc.).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 09:08:36 pm
content: Quote from: jukk on February 20, 2022, 08:33:11 pmWell in my language it is "kondenzator" for a device and it has "kapacitet". So condenser for a device and capacity for the size of it's, well, capacity...We use "zavojnica" (coil) and "induktivitet" for inductance value. Choke ("prigušnica") is used in context of usage, i.e. a functional explanation for a coil used for a use in a circuit, not for a component type per se.We call voltage a "električni napon" ("electric tension")..Electric potential is called a "potencijal", potential...Current is called a "struja" which actually is a current.I translate it to English when speaking English, but in my language it is not an "old" word but a very current one. I believe in German also... So we who don't speak English as a first language sometime slip up and use "Englified" version form our native language..It does not matter most of the time, because it is usually understood anyways..

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 09:23:07 pm
content: Quote from: jukk on February 20, 2022, 08:33:11 pmSame in my language (kondensatorius), but i forgot to mention that i was talking about the English language.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 09:26:29 pm
content: In electronics, "condenser" is no longer relevant in the English language. In others still: most germanic languages use the word "kondensator", slavic as well, it seems.Interestingly, the term is very common in power production and distribution (we're talking big megawatts here!) as in "rotating condenser" or "synchronous condenser" for power factor correction. But that's a completely different animal

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2022, 10:11:39 pm
content: Anyway, regarding the headline, I don't think it's been mentioned that it can be contextual:A choke is used to "choke off" AC current, i.e., reduce the level to an insignificant amount. Whereas, an inductor is probably a more intentional value, e.g. used for tuning a filter.In this sense, a choke is analogous to a coupling capacitor, where its value is simply large enough not to matter for the intended signals.Both examples (coupling capacitor / RFC) are highpass filters, so do affect the frequency response, but maybe you aren't too concerned about the low-frequency roll-off.(RFC = radio frequency choke. Same as any other choke, just... for RF.)Note that RFCs can have quite low Q as well, e.g. even ferrite beads being suitable sometimes. Whereas an inductor will normally have a modest to high Q.Analogously, transformers (when used for transformation ratios) often have a similar characteristic (high enough inductance not to mind, Q irrelevant). Whereas transformers for energy storage might be better calledcoupled inductors, and will have modest inductance (significant effect) and modest to high Q.Analogously, further: electrolytic capacitors occupy that sort of "excessively big enough" and lossy region of characteristics, being used in the same ways.Tim