Decent lab bench for a beginner EE? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: KayEE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:23:50 am
content: Hi guys! I am an EE student in my last year of school and a new member on this forum. Recently, I have been planning to build a decent lab bench at home so that I can make electronics with confidence. I have been doing some research online with a limited budget of around ~1200CAD. Here is a list of essential items I am thinking of buying:Hakko FX-888D soldering iron (with tweezers, magnifier, solder wick, Solder Spool)Rigol DS1054Z 50 MHz Digital OscilloscopeSaleae Logic Anazyler 8 channels 100 MS/sUni-T UT139C mulmiteterI am feeling a bit confused about the PSU. Since I am located in Canada, we only have limited choice for PSUs. I was thinking of TENMA 72-8335A Triple Output PSU (2 x 0~24VDC, 0~1A and 1 x 5VDC, 2A) for 110 CAD:http://canada.newark.com/tenma/72-8335a/power-supply-3ch-24v-2a-adjustable/dp/47X1648.This has been my research so far. I would highly appreciate any feedback/suggestions on the listed items. If you would like to recommend me a different PSU available in Canada at a similar price point, I would love to hear from you.Thanks,Kay

author: billfernandez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 11:38:45 am
content: Your general approach looks good. You might want to see if you can find an affordable power supply where the third (low) voltage supply can output 3.3VDC, which is an increasingly common supply voltage for digital logic. You might also want to add a general-purpose signal generator.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 12:33:11 pm
content: I would try snapping one of the HP 662x PSUs used from ebay...if you can live with the fan noise (wife or family) and the quite severe magnetic emissions which piss off most combiscopes if too close.Also, an AWG IMHO is a must. But that would probably go out of your price range...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 12:55:08 pm
content: I think you need at least two multimeters (so you can look at two values at once).I'd get one good one and one cheap-ish one.You also need mutimeter leads with hooks/crocodile clips so you can hook it up and leave it there.

author: Kamkut17
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 02:35:57 pm
content: Being pretty new to the whole scheme of things, take my advice with a pinch of salt, but I dont see you including some sort of helping hands tool, or at least a PCB Vice, which in my opinion, is essential. You have no idea how frustrating it is to be soldering something and it just flies all over the place because it isnt supported. 20-30€ is all that a decent quality helping hands tool will cost, and it should come with a magnifying glass.You'll want 2 multimeters for measureing voltage and current at the same time.If you are having trouble with finding a PSU, build one yourself! Dave has brilliant videos where he explains all the steps he goes through when designing something like that.And also, dont forget the mini-fridge with refreshmentsEDIT: I'm assuming you have already seen daves video, but just in case, here it is

author: KayEE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 03:39:48 pm
content: Some additions to the list after reading comments:Another multimeter ($50 - $100) - Still lookingHelping Hand Soldering Stand + MagnifierBreadboard/Jumper wire kitPSU - Still Undecided/Looking.Signal generator(Entry level) - Still Undecided/LookingI won't mind building a small PSU with 3.3VDC/5VDC output but still I want to buy a decent PSU so I don't have to deal with mains at this point

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 04:51:11 pm
content: More stuff:A good magnifying glass.Decent lighting (eg. a couple of LED lamps on flexible arms).Some sort of storage drawer/box system for organizing all the little things you'll soon be accumulating.After that ... you have to decide what sort of stuff you'll be building.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 05:12:37 pm
content: As for DMM's, you could opt for a Brymen BM257S as your good meter (~$125- $135* shipped), and a Uni-T 139C as your less expensive unit (~$44C).FWIW, most of the helping hands with alligator clips fall over too easily. You'd be better off getting a Panavise IMHO (Panavise Jr. isn't terribly expensive, but it is limited as to what it can do). Another alternative is DIY your own out of CNC coolant hose (segmented type; there's plenty of information on these and Panavises if you search the forum).As per breadboard, look for Wisher (decent quality, yet not too expensive; Taiwanese origin).I'd also suggest getting a proper 2 layer rubber ESD mat (think large place mat size, such as 24"x30"). And there happens to be an eBay seller,canvu0_0, based out of Canada (good prices, and shipping should be reasonable too). This not only can help with ESD, but it can handle molten solder and impacts, so it will protect the table beneath it. FWIW, I've purchased a mat from this seller, and it's of excellent quality (mat is made in Canada by Scientific Americas).I'd also like to reinforce the mention of test leads & connector ends. I findProbemasterto offer quality at good prices as they sell directly to their customers (shipping via USPS & UPS). Personally, I'd suggest looking at the modular 9000 series, as the connectors attach directly to the lead, not to a non-removable probe (probe adds weight to the test point = tends to slip off a lot more often).Regarding supplies such as solder, wick, and additional flux, I'd suggest buying quality (better performance will reduce the number of issues with lifted pads and such, as well as reduced aggravation). Brands to look for would include Kester, Alpha Metals (Cookson), AIM (American Iron & Metals), Multicore/Henkel, MG Chemicals (particularly for liquidRosin 835in 125ml bottles**), and Indium.As per power supplies, I'm partial to quality used units. Particularly those with multiple outputs as you get a much better value & quality than new (i.e. pennies on the dollar vs. new prices). Some examples currently listed on eBay.ca:HP 6236B(+/- 20V @ 500mA can do a lot & 0-6V @ 0-2.5A; useful with op-amps)Leader LPS 152(+/-25V @ 0-1A, 0-6V @ 0-5A)Lambda LPT-7202-FM(2x 0-20V @ 0-1.5A, 0-7V @ 0-5A)BK Precision 1651(2x 0-24V @ 0-500mA, 0-5V @ 0-4A)* I'm guessing Franky is out of stock ATM (memberID =iloveelectronics).** Dispensing can be done with a brush bottle (think nail polish bottle), brush pen (i.eBON-102; those on eBay areverylikely counterfeits), needle bottle, or even just dip a small paint brush.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 05:45:16 pm
content: Re Multimeters: I have recently restored my Keithley 177 which was dirt cheap. IMHO, it is great value....I paid like 39$ or so plus shipment.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 05:47:07 pm
content: The BK Precision 1651 is a nice little all around power supply. Mine came in the avocado green and burnt mustard color scheme. Tektronix also sold a version which came in colors that fit in a little better with the rest of the lab equipment. I have a digital volt meter waiting to be installed, but I'm keeping the analog amp meter.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 06:24:14 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 25, 2016, 05:47:07 pmThey're definitely prettier, but the least expensive one I found that appears to be fully function and has a return policy comes in ~$193C shipped (here, assuming BIN price; though there is aMake Offerbutton).OP:If you don't care about appearance, or they don't like your offers, go for the BK Precision 1651 linked aboveifthis is the unit you'd prefer operationally speaking, as they're all decent units IMHO.BTW, you should be able to find free .pdf copies of the Operator Manuals online (KO4BB's site andBAMAare good starting points). Particularly to help figure out wiring the output terminals when there's either aSeries/Parallel/IndependentorTracking/Independentswitch involved if needed.There are other brands of course, and come in other output counts (i.e. single, dual, or even quad output). I just searched for triple output models as they're common enough and offer more value than single or dual outputs generally speaking. Not so many quad output units, so expect higher prices per output than triple supplies.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:00:52 pm
content: There always seems to be a few jerks on ebay that try and sell the Tek version at ridiculous prices. I guess because of the brand name. They do show up fairly frequently at decent prices though. I paid $99 plus $15 shipping for the one in the picture. I paid about$25 less for the BK version I bought 10 years ago. They're both pretty good power supplies. The Tek is rated a bit more conservatively, but I've never actually open both at the same time to see what the real differences are.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:18:59 pm
content: I wouldn't buy a PSU with an analog meter. Can you set it to 1.8V for your FPGA supply? 4.2V to charge a lithium cell? No, you have to hook up your multimeter. Very annoying. Worse than slide rules.Now, PSUs are the one item where you can save lots of money. You can get fixed 13.8V PSUs really cheap. You can get a 4-6 amp rated one for like $20. If you get the right one, it has an LM723 inside. Cut a PCB track, slap in a pot, bam, you have a 1.5V-15V adjustable PSU with excellent regulation and stability. Slap in another 50 cents worth of parts and another pot, and you have adjustable current limiting from 0mA. Add one of those chinese 4 digit volt/amp meters and you have a really nice power supply for next to nothing.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 25, 2016, 05:47:07 pmLOL. Never noticed this, but the B channel is on the left the Voltage and Current adjustments are on the right. Ass backwards. Also the A/B switch is vertical and not super intuitive in its location. Probably better served on the right side of the panel. I bet that GUI caused plenty of magic smoke when unwittingly reaching over late at night and diddling the wrong controls based on intuition. Way to go Tek. I was there then in a different group, but fortunately far away from the retarded marketing wanks that let this happen.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 02:25:02 am
content: Quote from: grouchobyte on March 25, 2016, 08:34:33 pmTektronix rebranded them, as did BK Precision (ODM = Escort?*). FWIW, Escort was acquired by Agilent/Keysight in 2008**, which became the basis for their hand held product line.Sadly, we're starting to derail the thread, so let's try to stay on track.*Source.**Source.

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 02:36:31 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 26, 2016, 02:25:02 amThose were the days when Tektronix was imploding. I'm not sure they ever recovered from those dark days. It's funny and sad to think about. Okay, you can have your thread back now....

author: KayEE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 04:49:06 pm
content: Thank you all for your valuable adviceI liked the idea of buying a good meter (BM257S) with a less expensive one (Uni-T 139C). I will add ESD mat, test leads, storage system, Panavise Jr. and soldering supplies to my list. Also, good to know that I can buy a used PSU from a named brand or modify a cheap 13.8V PSU.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 05:34:14 pm
content: I would check AliExpress. They sell a nice bit of stuff really cheap. Small things like tools and suchcrap...I also get my soldering tin and shite there.Beware of the ESD mats though, which can be stinky.

author: ROBOT
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 05:44:29 pm
content: Why are you limited on power supplies in Canada? The shipment or the mains voltage?

author: TomB19
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:01:05 pm
content: Why would anyone prefer the UT139C over a UT61E for an electronics bench?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: KayEE on March 26, 2016, 04:49:06 pmI forgot to mention; getting a kit simplifies matters as it includes a ground point/block and a wrist strap. Mat only means you'll have to add these bits separately, though it does allow you to get precisely what you want and/or go after better quality if you wish. Or like me, find a wrist strap that fits & keeps proper contact.Quote from: TomB19 on March 26, 2016, 06:01:05 pm20,000 counts is nice, but isn't a necessity. And as a beginner, I have to assume has a higher risk of making mistakes. So based on that logic, it's better to have the improved safety of the UT139C over the UT61E. This will also allow the OP to branch into checking the mains side of circuits without the need to purchase new tools.Once the OP's up to speed on proper use and understands the limitations of any particular piece of gear, then cheaper meters may be warranted.

author: KayEE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 07:22:57 pm
content: Quote from: ROBOT on March 26, 2016, 05:44:29 pmI mean shipping and limited suppliers as compared to US. Tequipment and Saelig ship free for orders over $99 in US but charge $60-$110 for shipping to Canada. Also some items I found on ebay.com say "May not ship to Canada". So only options we have are ebay.ca, amazon.ca, digikey.ca, Mouser Canada and Newark Canada and may be few other.Quote from: TomB19 on March 26, 2016, 06:01:05 pmAlso UT61E is missing temperatureQuote from: nanofrog on March 26, 2016, 06:10:59 pmI assumed ground point/block and a wrist strap were obvious

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 02:53:16 am
content: Quote from: KayEE on March 25, 2016, 08:23:50 amYou could consider the Weller WES51 over the Hakko FX-888Dhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/stahl-soldering-station/msg872899/#msg872899In Canada, at the consumer level, it seems that it is easier to obtain genuine Weller parts (like tips) than genuine Hakko partsFor a Power Supply, if buying new, I am partial to the GW Instek modelshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/buying-a-power-supply-for-different-electronic-projects/msg893597/#msg893597http://www.tradeport.on.casells the GW INSTEK GPS-2303 and other models, but I never dealt with them.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 04:01:36 am
content: To OP be sure to check the Beginner section of this forumhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/there is a good list on stockpile

author: Chris60601
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 04:35:11 am
content: Quote from: Kamkut17 on March 25, 2016, 02:35:57 pmFinished watching this about 30 minutes ago. Great work and there was a ton of things I didn't even consider.For giggles, I went to Amazon to see if the kit (power supply) might be available - nada. I figured I would try the site.I suppose just about any DIY kit out there would do. Of course, not real sure about the need (or diff) of linear or switched.Chris

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 08:08:00 am
content: Bench and shelves I assume you have.Safety; an isolating transforner / rcd. Emergency stop push.Bench environment : articulated light, magnification, workpiece holding. You can have all the fancy soldering stations and test gear you want but if you can't hold the workpiece still or see what the hell you are doing you the results will not be satisfactory. A second hand milling / machine vice is fine for smaller items, a bernstein or similar swivel vice is handy. I think the PCB holders are a bit pricey. An old woolen sock filled with dried mung beans or other pulses is handy so sit irregular boards on and get them to co forn.PSU. Make one or get a good one that'll last many years.. Pick up a used HP/Agilent/keysight on ebay. It's worth waiting for a good deal on one. You could repurpose an old ATX PSU in the meantime if you have the facilities to drill penetrations for fuseholders, binding posts and switches.A cheap set of calipers. You'll use them frequently to measure pin spacings, apertures, replacement screws, battery sizes ...Dispenser bottles.I wouldn't bother with a logic analyser.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 02:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: Chris60601 on March 27, 2016, 04:35:11 amTheDC Power Supply Basics Tutorialpage over on radio electronics' site may be of interest (covers the basic differences and the pros & cons of their use).

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 04:38:25 pm
content: Used HP linear power supplies are great. There are tons of them on ebay and they are usually reasonably priced for what you get. Personally I own a HP3611A and a E3620A for dual rail stuff. They are dead silent and deliver very clean power.

author: Kamkut17
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 10:08:16 pm
content: http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/adjustable-dc-regulated-linear-power-supply-with-usb-power-port-csi-1501x/This looks like a very good general purpose PSU, although its not a huge brand, it does look like it will do the job, and its worth nothing! Definitely consider this one

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 11:16:15 pm
content: You need a hammer for widlarizing.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2016, 12:03:22 am
content: I'll second (or third) the idea of used HP power supplies. They can be very cheap, although you might have to replace the odd filter cap on the older models. I have 3 of them on my bench. Don't like analog meters? Either replace with a digital meter or get a 6114A and punch in 3.30 if you want 3.3V output. I found one of those for $60 that was 100% functional. That one is good for 40V at 2A. Power Designs is another good brand to look for. Something like a TP325 will take care of most simple requirements.Also spend some money on good hand tools. I like Excelta pliers, which I think are a great deal for the money, but there are other good brands. You'll also need screwdrivers, nutdrivers, torx drivers, tweezers, etc and some way to organize them.Also some good jumpers, clip leads, test leads, patch cables, bnc cables, etc and a way to organize those. Don't forget some hookup wire.

author: fmiz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pm
content: I'm in the same position as KayEE, I'm an EE student and I'd like to setup a decent lab at home.I have used an hp/agilent e3631a at my university's lab, and I found useful having 3 outputs.I've searched for a few days online for bench PSUs, reviews, used prices on ebay, and I don't know what's the best approach.I'm in the EU and shipping PSUs from the US looks VERY expensive. So far, I've found 2 old looking Thurlby dual output PSUs, a cracked BK precision 1651, a used HP E3630A for 250$, then brands that I don't know anything about: GW instech, Iso tech. While searching, I found the very cheap Korad KA3005P, then the bigger KA3305P and the related eevblog thread. I can buy a new KA3305P from reichelt for 200€ (around 230$, rebranded RND lab, I hope it is still the same thing...).I don't want to make anyone angry at me for putting this KA3305P in the same line as an HP E3630A, but would you still buy the hp one for that price?The old hp unit does not have constant current mode, no on/off soft button, no serial port (not that I care about this at this point), unlike the korad.What other name brands can I search for (maybe that are more common in the EU)? What do you think is a reasonable price for a used 3 output linear psu (with constant current mode capability)?Sorry for going off-topic: I'm also looking for two multimeters, I was thinking of buying the aneng 8009 for 20$ on bangood and 121GW for 280$. Is it better to instead buy 2 identical meters (like the EX330 (60$) or BM235 (105$))?

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 26, 2018, 05:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: fmiz on August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pmThis one from peaktech brand is IMO decent general purpose power supply:https://www.reichelt.com/de/en/laboratory-switching-mode-power-supply-30-v-3-a-peaktech-6225-a-p178728.html?&trstct=pol_3It's a switch-mode one so not exactly low noise but useful for most of the things.HP 6632B is pretty common on second hand market with 150...200 euros price range. Big, heavy, fragile and works as a space heater but also very accurate and works as a LOAD!I once bought 30 of them when the price was right, rear suspension on my car was maxed out

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2018, 07:13:52 am
content: Quote from: fmiz on August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pmThurlby Thandar's are decent, as is the BK 1651, and GW Instek as well (i.e.GPC-3020). Shipping is expensive because they're linear supplies, not SMPS (big heavy transformers & heatsinks). Noticeably lower noise and ripple though, and if possible, I'd suggest getting a linear over an SMPS if at all possible.Between the GW Instek GPC-3020 and the BK Precision 1651, I'd suggest the GPC-3020 (I know this one has switchable input voltage as well as both CC and CV modes).Quote from: fmiz on August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pmFor that particular model, Yes. They're still in production and go for $698 MSRP. I would suggest getting a unit with CC mode though hence the recommendation above ^ (the linked seller ships to Italy).Quote from: fmiz on August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pmDepends on the market.Comparatively speaking, they're cheaper in the US than anywhere in the EU/UK as there's just so much more of it available (supply & demand). Since there's so much less of this type of stuff in your market, the prices tend to be a lot higher and the selection more limited.Importing from the US is a possibility, but you'd have to be sure it's input voltage is switchable on the linear units assuming the shipping rates are feasible as well as any customs duties and fees.Quote from: fmiz on August 26, 2018, 04:25:48 pmMultiple meters is generally a good idea as you'll likely encounter the need to take simultaneous measurements. It's also another way to get specific features/functions. Having identical meters gets you the first part, but not the second.Is there a specific feature in the 121GW you need? If not, you could better spend your funds on say aBM235orBM257, and add in an Aneng and even a Uni-T, say theUT-139C(no idea what you really need). All for less than the cost of the 121GW.