Vacuum Tube "technology"? China? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 12:20:50 am
content: I don't know why this struck me as a weird headline but it did. I tend to think of vacuum tube technology as antiquated and difficult to find parts for.I just completed a 5-tube radio restoration.https://interestingengineering.com/military/china-pistol-sized-vacuum-tube-warfare-techBut this is interesting technology. China is showing a lot of innovation, but the country isn't given enough credit.Just like Japan was once derided for cheap, crappy stuff, China has that honor today. More and more, they appear to be turning the corner.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:00:30 am
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on August 17, 2025, 12:20:50 amMy friend, they've already turned that corner. They're getting close to totally kicking our collective ass at some point in the near future.And good for them, I say.

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:08:10 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 01:00:30 amI think I posted my view on here. I see a lot of "China makes crap," and that's true. But what I find interesting about China is that you literally get what you pay for. If you want high-quality goods, they can produce them in numbers and at prices that can't be matched. If your goal is price, they can and are willing to do that, too.This flexibility or willingness to produce price-fixed products is something I've not seen in other countries/companies. So often, companies and countries strive to establish a "name" by focusing on quality and brand recognition.It wasn't so long ago that "Made in Taiwan" was a badge of low quality, but it has been my experience over the past 10 years that things have swung decidedly towards quality products from Taiwan.If you like, stroll down history with where "Made in" started. It was "Made in Germany"/"Made in England" and the reason was the inferior quality of similar goods from, get this, Germany!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:17:50 am
content: Quote from: Cyclotron on August 17, 2025, 01:08:10 amYou're actually about 20 years behind the curve when it comes to Taiwan.Taiwanese companies were making high-quality woodworking tools as early as the late 1990s-early 2000s.I have a Jet bandsaw, basically a clone of a Delta, which is a recognized quality American brand.It's pretty much equal to the Delta in quality, and was a hell of a lot cheaper.Other than that, you're correct about Taiwanese products.I remember when "Made in Japan" was a bad joke and a sure sign of crapola (this was back in the 1960s).

author: Cyclotron
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:26:16 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 01:17:50 amI suppose you're right. Jet led the way in introducing quality tools from Taiwan. I don't do any woodworking, but I certainly should have remembered the engine lathes and tooling coming from them.The last ten years I referenced were hand tools. These are where the rubber meets the road when it comes to quality. You make tiny mistakes, and it will come blazing through on hand tools. TSMC is also something I know a lot about, given my industry of trade, and they have been trending upward ever since AMD spun off GlobalFoundries. Now they are dominant.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 01:26:38 am
content: See how RF Vacuum tubes, high powered ones for radar and UHF TV broadcast actually work:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/see-exactly-how-and-why-a-microwave-tube-klystron-amplifier-works/

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 03:37:42 am
content: “I did not write half of what I saw, for I knew I would not be believed”Marco Polo, on his deathbed, talking about his experiences in China.The truth of the matter is, that after the century of humiliation, China is regaining its status as the World’s pre-eminent nation.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:47:44 am
content: I'm looking forward to arguing about which armies have the best tone....the glassiest highs.... The most haunting mids.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:13:37 am
content: It could be true, but I consider it most likely to be a deceitful propaganda akin of Chinese self driving technology being way ahead of Tesla and the rest of western ones, and many Chinese believing it and trusting their cars way too much. Only to be discovered to be terribly sucking and being an insane death traps in a large real world test.Quote from: Cyclotron on August 17, 2025, 12:20:50 amTWT and Magnetron tubes are not obsolete at all. You just don't see TWT in consumer products at all and magnetrons anywhere beside microwave ovens.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 17, 2025, 11:13:37 am"TWT"? What's that?Just love it when people throw out acronyms nobody's heard of. Yeah, yeah, I know ...

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:50:01 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 07:35:59 pmYou should write the same complaint every time you see MOSFET, BJT, SCR, EEPROM, NAND...Or you could spend a few seconds of googling if you don't know the term, on a technical forum I should say.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling-wave_tubeNot to say if you looked into the original article linked, you'd see this acronym as well.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 07:54:55 pm
content: Well, thanks for supplying the requested information, if buried in a Wikipedia URL.Was that so hard?And no, I didn't read the linked article becauseI'm not all that interested in that subject.And no, we all know what MOSFET, BJT, SCR, EEPROM, NAND, etc., mean.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 07:54:55 pmSo please say what's the difference between writing traveling-wave tube instead of TWT if you don't know and not interested about what either of those mean anyway?

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 09:25:06 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on August 17, 2025, 09:08:20 pmThere may be others who are interested.It's not a big deal; I just think it would be a nice courtesy if people would not assume that everyone knows what that TLA they're using means. That's all.(TLA = 3-letter acronym)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 07:54:55 pmMany beginners don't know at least some of them and some don't know even a single one.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:52:13 pm
content: TLA is three-letterabbreviationif it includes "TWT".Again, since TWT is a common abbreviation in vacuum-tube lore, most tube posters will not bother to define it, the same way that the microprocessor posters don't bother to define "FPGA" or similar abbreviations.I am reminded of an old Laurel and Hardy movie, where Stan added "those not interested need not apply" to a matrimonial advertisement.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:55:37 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 17, 2025, 10:52:13 pmWhatever, pedant.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 10:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 10:55:37 pmFeel free to correct mewhen I'm wrong.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:03:52 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 17, 2025, 10:58:16 pmOf course you're not wrong. You're never wrong, are you?Must drive your wife nuts.Just saying that for most of us, regarding TLAs: acronym, abbreviation, initialism: whatever. We don't really care. If it bothers you, that's your problem, not mine.Pretty much a distinction without a difference to most of us.Potay-to, potah-to.Are you always careful to choose between "who" and "whom"?To be honest, I really don't know the rules there.And you know what?I don't care.There are lots of things I won't know when I die.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:17:26 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 11:03:52 pmOf course I am sometimes wrong--otherwise my offer to let you correct me would be fraudulent.I try to admit it when I'm wrong.I also try to write carefully with accepted grammar when writing--it's just as easy to get pronouns right as to get them wrong, and corrections are easy on a keyboard.It's a habit from before retirement, when I wrote technical memos.In normal spoken conversation, no one is expected to never make a grammatical error.So if you don't care what a "TWT" is, why are you whining? If he had spelled out "traveling wave tube", and you were unfamiliar with the term, you would still have to look it up.If someone uses a term with which you are not familiar, a polite "What's a TWT?" is better than a complaint or accusation.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:25:42 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 17, 2025, 11:17:26 pmOK, let's just drop the whole thing.I was thinking of others who also might not know what that 3-letter whatever meant.Just suggesting using the actual term as a courtesy rather than the abbreviation.Now back to our regularly scheduled programming, vacuum tube technology (which is alive and well).

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:34:29 pm
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on August 17, 2025, 03:37:42 amThis is an example of the partial truths and spin than are common in discussions of China. China has been a great nation in the past, and will be in the future. By most metrics it is there now and is arguably pre-eminent or soon to be.But the implication that China has been pre-eminent except for a century of humiliation is far from correct. China was clearly not pre-eminent from sometime in the mid to late 1700s until sometime in the early 21st century. China must not have been pre-eminent when they were conquered by the Mongols (and it was under Mongol rule that Marco Polo visited.). While China was advanced and strong around during the first and second centuries it is certainly debatable whether they or the Romans were pre-eminent. Similar things can be said about golden ages in China in the bronze age and earlier.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2025, 11:55:35 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on August 17, 2025, 11:34:29 pmThe last Chinese golden age before WW II was probably the Song dynasty, 900 to 1279 AD.See J NorbergPeak HumanAtlantic Books 2025.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 12:35:48 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on August 17, 2025, 11:25:42 pmThe problem with people "thinking of others" is that "others" usually would be happier to be left alone with no concern of yours, and would rather voice themselves if something actually bothers them.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:34:34 am
content: Ok, I stand corrected about my dates of the Chinese pre-eminence.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:36:25 am
content: Quote from: UnijunctionTransistor on August 18, 2025, 03:34:34 amMy reading is that they are coming back: no hegemonic empire lasts forever.

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 05:31:47 am
content: ah, looks like this TWT has been around for a long timehttps://www.radartutorial.eu/08.transmitters/Traveling%20Wave%20Tube.en.htmlAlexander S. Gilmour jr.: ’’Principles of Traveling Wave Tubes’’, (Course-related training material), March 2014, ISBN 978-1-4951-0431-2there are also russian TWT on ebay going at US$40Quotehttps://www.righto.com/2021/07/inside-20-watt-traveling-wave-tube.htmlQuoteand there is an interesting note at the end of this websiteQuotefascinatingi only know korg did a THT component vac tubei dont think there is new development into miniaturisationhttps://www.r-type.org/articles/art-030.htmQuotethis is interesting greybeard RF stuffseem like exactly the same tech used in todays satellitehttps://www.everythingrf.com/news/details/15413-stellant-systems-delivers-space-qualified-35-w-q-band-channelized-traveling-wave-tube-amplifiersQuote

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 07:52:31 am
content: As is common, I often tend to plug in my own beliefs or angle when reading something like this:Vacuum Tube hardware has, still, some great milage left, but maybe more as the nano-scale machines REALLY take off, not just some hype plus some A.I. hype. This and the old-school, humble, mechanical contact switch, where items like transistor Vbe (input voltage) aren't so critical.The whole, power usage criteria has driven things pretty hard, towards obtaining efficiency and current technology isn't enough. Just, naturally, as a human race, many things could use MUCH improvement. Maybe some Vacuum tube innovation turns out frivolous. But, as humans, we check-out, eventually, avenues that have promise.Besides, a little research here, or there, doesn't use that much resources, compared to the advantages of electrical and electronic devices and systems.

author: UnijunctionTransistor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2025, 03:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on August 18, 2025, 03:36:25 amThe best reading about this behavior is Paul Kennedy’s The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers.There is another which I have not read yet, but looks interesting: Andrew Taylor’s The Rise and Fall of the Great Empires.