CAN Analyser -Experiences - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 12:56:47 am
content: Looking for feedback / experiences with CAN Analyzers. Mainly machinery, but able to do vehicle (ODB? would be handy -or a separate project).I am well aware of what is "out there", just seeing what issues users have found / limitations / stay-away from stories :-) Recommended models?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 06:55:34 am
content: In automotive industry, the defacto standard CAN tool is CANalyser by Vector Instruments. It is very expensive but worth it compared to the cheaper stuff around.It can decode the CAN packet if you give it the message format in .dbc files.It has a programming/scrpting language (CAPL) which allows processing of message to respond or even developing tools.However, it has been designed to be as non-intuitive as you can get. Once someone has shown you how to do things, it is fairly easy. I personally think Vector did this to make more money by forcing you to go on their training courses.ODB2 has generic codes that all manufacturers must support but most manufacturers use their own specific codes for most useful stuff. Not sure if Vector provide .dbc file for the ODB2 standard.I have also used Peak Pcan and Ixxat analysers. They can only do the basic capture and log. We could not find any feature to decode the message.None of the above come with the ODB2 connector. They all come with 9w Dtype. We make our own adapters when we need.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:08:27 am
content: Yup, I know the whole area is a shltmess, is why I'm looking for experiences. My electrics mechanic has 3 units, one is a Vector, all around $5K+, and he is constantly switching between them to get info he wants, and still fails on many occasions.I was looking at the Kvaser options, at least they are more reasonably priced. May even grab a couple really cheap open-source ones as well .. usually, all I want to see is data integrity / error rates etc I'll likely have to do a bit of my own development work eventually.Wondering where to start.

author: zzattack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:14:22 am
content: I've drooled over Vektor's stuff, but even moreso over neoVI VehicleSpy for a long time. Never bit the bullet and always used my own custom hw to get what I need, even if that was often severely tiring.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:21:53 am
content: Quote from: zzattackGeeeez what a crock of a price. I hope vehicle Ethernet takes off and brings these prices back to reality :-) At those prices, would they ever "pay" for themselves?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:24:26 am
content: Hasn't anyone done a CAN plugin for Wireshark?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:24:39 am
content: Vector costs the mostNext up is probably IAXXTThen you get to the more generic ELM327 and CoFor buses and trucks, you will want something that supports 29 bit can identifiers. if very new buses and trucks then CanFD (which costs much more on average)And for small cars, 11 bit ID's are the norm, (OBD = on board diagnostics)Its rare that 11 bit and 29 bit get mixed on the same bus, generally only very custom agricultural gear pulls that crap.Machinery is mostly going to be 29 bit, I have some example logs from some machinery if your interested (PM) however almost all of it is fairly undocumented unless you can find the "CAN Matrix" for a given supplier, J1939 (generally 29 bit can) has a 2014 version of the agreed upon general PGN's and SPN's floating out in the wild, (try searching J1939DA) otherwise the latest is not that expensive (For single user only generally)For most of these devices there are free to use drivers so long as you have the devices and are not hard to inteface with e.g. python scripts. I've even gone as far as progromatically writing can scripts for a device as it logs, but that was some time ago,As to the ethernet comment, the really big gear uses it, and its non standard pinout, and generally end to end VPN's for fun, they really don't want third party hardware anywhere but on there sandboxed bodybuilder connectors

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:33:42 am
content: Thanks for all that. I'll look up those suggestions, but it doesn't make the shltmess clearer :-)Quote from: RerouterGreat news :-) !!

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 08:36:12 am
content: when I say big gear, I'm talking about 400 tonne mobile cranes where the engine along is bigger than some trucks, and mining gear that is generally only driven by ladies, if its normal loaders, forwarders and all that stuff where its not much bigger than a semi trailer, its probably still can

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 01:11:09 pm
content: We use kvaser interfaces. Very well built and in the Just Works™ category. the higher end models can also run custom srcipt/software written in C inside of them.We just wanted an analyzer to sniff the powertrain bus so we didn't buy any specific software for it, we use canking for the simple stuff and busmaster for the more andvanced things.Quotei've seen it done on fiat, renault and mercedes vehicles

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 01:57:23 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 19, 2019, 01:11:09 pmI just have PIC24 with ISO1050 which drops everything to the PC through USB (possibly with filtering), and then I can use C to parse it as I want.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 02:09:54 pm
content: Just ordered a couple of cheap "play modules" / analyzers from Digikey. Time to find out what I'm up against ... looks like a long journey ! btw did I mention that I hate CAN :-)

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 02:21:34 pm
content: As somewhat affordable CAN FD solution, I'm using aPeak CAN FDPro at work. It's dual channel and also support LIN.CAN FD ISO and non-ISO are supported and you can also create CAN faults. The applications are somewhat limited but there's also an API for your own applications. Of course it's not a CANalyzer which offers scripting, more advanced filtering and more in-depth manipulations like ignoring the acknowledge when sending.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 02:36:32 pm
content: Quote from: NorthGuy on July 19, 2019, 01:57:23 pmthe point of having the device running custom code is that it can then do what it has to do without having a pc connected, which is VERY useful in certain places

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2019, 02:43:26 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 19, 2019, 02:36:32 pmPIC24 can run custom code

author: rounin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 01:21:20 am
content: I'm releasing a new USB-CAN FD for public beta in the next week or so. I'll do another thread with more details soon.https://suburbanmarine.io/product/hadou-can-beta/This should work with wireshark in linux, although I don't have any message definitions for standard SAE vehicle busses.I have previously used Peak's PCAN-FD and liked it, on linux with custom PC side code. I'm using one to test my HW. Peak's GUI is nice.