The written review - consigned to history or a valued information source ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 01:06:48 pm
content: I recently wrote a review on the P2 Pro and need some feedback on whether such reviews are still wanted or whether YouTube review videos are now the ‘standard’ desired by forum members.My P2 Pro review is to be found here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-infiray-p2-pro-thermal-camera-dongle-for-android-mobile-phones/I personaly like to read written reviews on products where I can absorb the content at my pace and study the images. That is not to say that I do not enjoy the modern world of YouTube videos and reviews….I love them as wellPeople like ‘our’ Mike and Dave produce quality content that I very much enjoy.The question is, do people on this forum believe there is still a place for the written technical review or has the world moved on since we used to read reviews in hard copy magazines ?I told Infiray that I would produce a written type of review for the P2 Pro and that it would be unbiased, honest and of interest to this forums members. They originally wanted a YouTube video but I leave clever stuff like that to Mike and others ! I believe Infiray got a fair and useful review in return for their review sample. My time spent on the review certainly exceeded the value of a P2 Pro ! I have had no comment from Infiray on whether they liked my work so have to rely on you, good readers, for feedback.I am happy to receive suggestions for changes in content, format etcThank you in advanceFraser

author: Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 04:38:24 pm
content: Thank you Fraser, for this initiative.I like both, as long as they are full of pertinent content:Both are readable or watchable with the possibility, for the second option (YT), to do "pause" or to come back as often as wee need.For quantitative disclosure with some theory, the written version is very practical because we can do copy and paste, printing and working on paper support, in the peace of our shack, with care and time.One alternative i try to practice is to combine both by making Powerpoint presentations, with written, formulae, figures, schematics content, converted in video file and uploaded on my YT channel. And in the same video, with some simple windows tools like "video editor", i can add demonstration, tests "in the field".And i complete this video publication by feeding the dedicated description as much as i can with a max of details.Briefly said. Both manner to publish a review or a disclosure about a project are compatible and complementary.Whatever is the chosen one, the most important IMHO is to use these tools as much as possible with the highest SNR or infos concentration/density for allowing people of the community to use said infos for their own projects.Regards.Stéphane

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 10:06:13 pm
content: Both ways of presenting information have their place. I just think it's bad when authors think they only use one of the two media. E.g. only YouTube because it is so "hip" and generates more reach. Or just a written review because the author is not familiar with the new media.A written review can convey content in a comprehensible and chronological manner because a text needs a derivation otherwise you cannot follow it. This improves the deeper understanding of a topic.With a video you can show the functions of a device very well as if you were holding it in your own hand. This is difficult to do with photographic images. Also a video in which a moderator only talks to himself is pointless because you forget the content more quickly.Personally, videos annoy me because I then have to "stick" in front of the screen. I can skim a text or continue reading later. With a video I'm forced to pay full attention to parts that don't interest me because you don't know where something interesting is being said or shown.The best review is one that is written but also providesadditionalcontent via video.

author: Danielsan79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 10:29:11 pm
content: I like written reviews combined with video clips, charts and so on. I like to do Amazon reviews for the Vine program and i always film the products as well, thats why i bought the thermal camera and other stuff. I can not understand when people get for a example a camcorder for review and they never show at least a bit of video footage of the product. When i review for a example an electric blanket with a battery i will meassure how long the thing will work with a temperature Datalogger and give a runtime chart, will show the thermal image since i have a thermal camera now, i will meassure the charging current from the USB Port and meassure the real capacity of the battery with one of those AVHzY CT3 devices and so on. Thats why written text combined with video, images, charts etc. is the best, no need for youtube. Like Katzenhai said, in many youtube videos the people talking to much instead of showing the interesting stuff.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 10:39:34 pm
content: Thanks guys, useful comments. I know that when I watch a YouTube video I like some close-up steady images of the item being discussed and some video styles make me motion sickSome YouTube presenters include nice still images for the viewer to pause on, if desired. As has been said, the written review can be more convenient to dip into when time permits or to speed read. The inclusion of video 'bites' would certainly add to the review and, just as a picture can speak a thousand words, a video can greatly enhance an text description of an equipments behavior, performance and operation. I shall have to look into creating simple YouTube content for use in reviews. I found that my MP4 videos that I recorded for the P2 Pro review had to be ditched as they were too large for the forum upload. They might also eat Daves storage so better to store them off forum and provide the link ?Fraser

author: Danielsan79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2022, 11:23:37 pm
content: Of course you can use youtube for larger files that you can not store on this server. I use youtube for showing friends larger videos that are to big for whatsapp or for example when i order something from aliexpress or banggood and it has a problem, then they tell me to send them a youtube video about the proplem. I upload the videos as "not listed" all the time because they are not meant for everyone. Thankfully when i do an Amazon Review i can use their own Servers for that, so i dont need youtube much. Yes, real good pictures or video from a DSLR or System camera of the product under good lighting helps to show the "look and feel" of a product.

author: Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 01:41:54 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 21, 2022, 10:39:34 pmIndeed fraser, Yt can be fed by simple and slow, reader friendly watcher. The manner i feed my channel is to consider it like a "log book" which is usually found in lans or workshop. No "selfie", or self centred video, or whatever related to my person... Only data usable by others, or serving me as memory for helping me for other projects. And then it is very convenient for supporting a post here or there in diverses fora....It would be great to see you creating your channel!Stéphane

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 12:15:29 pm
content: I do believe written review (and discussion) is needed for such a technical topic. Especially when you provide links, tables and images. Which is always difficult to provide in a video.Even if you were to produce a video version of that review or future features, it would still require you to write up a script and produce supplemental material. So only publishing on YouTube doesn't sound like the way forward. One example there is is Igor's Lab - they always have a written review for videos they produce. And the written reviews show more data and details. some voices on the topic of how tech media changed are provided in this video:https://youtu.be/eBiTXzgAbgMBut I don't think this niche of thermal imaging is filled with quality videos on YouTube yet. Sure there are 'reviews' and comparisons. But nothing that goes into technical details with data like from the blackbodies. And they rarely know what they are talking about in the larger picture. Some of the products reviewed are only for a specific purpose (think hunting Scopes) and therefore they are really lacking in the actual technology. So yes there is a place. And there might be a audience for it as well.But you can't just assume every viewer understands all the concepts. So you would probably need to produce videos to explain such concepts as well.

author: Thermal23
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 22, 2022, 07:56:49 pm
content: Nice read, thank you!Have you seen this camera? they claim to be able to image in a very wide range of wavelengths.https://www.lightpath.com/products/infrared-cameras/

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 12:13:14 pm
content: This was an interesting exercise….451 reads and 18 voters. Make what you will of those figures but it tells me what I needed to know. Of the 18 who bothered to vote 12 (66%) like both written reviews and YouTube videos. Not a surprise to me as that is my preference too. The low interest in the poll and this thread does speak volumes thoughFraser

author: katzenhai2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 03:56:13 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 27, 2022, 12:13:14 pmOf the 451 reads, a larger number of bots (Google search etc) should also be included. Of course they can't vote.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 04:14:28 pm
content: It still indicates a lack of interest amongst those on the forum thoughThis is why I do not invest time with YouTube video production. The topic is too specialist and viewer base too limited to justify the effort. Based on this poll I will not diversify into YouTube, and future reviews will be dependant upon manufacturers interest in providing products for written reviews.It is looking like I have a very busy 2023 coming my way so at least I know where to focus my efforts.Fraser

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 06:20:57 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 27, 2022, 04:14:28 pmI don't particularly see the results that way. 95% preferred written or video, provided the video had the same technical content. That's a very big "if." In my experience, YT reviews usually lack the same level of technical and focus more on theatrics. Obviously, the incentives are quite different between written and YT, and theatrics wins. Only 5% preferred YT alone whereas one third preferred written alone.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 07:40:06 pm
content: Jpanhalt,Not wanting to appear mean but the poll is void due to lack of forum members engagement ~21 voters is not a representative sample of this area of the EEVBlog forum. The wording regarding written vs video reviews was deliberate as the poll was trying to establish the forum members preference if actual technical content was comparable. As stated, some YouTube videos are not up to the standard of a well written review.Fraser

author: Lambda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 08:27:04 pm
content: Fraser, perhaps just a food for thoughts....To do videos in a dedicated YT channel can be done without hoping nothing special in term of recognition.The idea, IMHO, is to feed a channel with the maximum of data which may be provided by the creator of such YT channel.Without hoping whatever in term of feedback. the important point is to render it visible to the community.What is important is just the fact that data are collected and organised in a "readable/watchable" manner for an eventual/potential visitor.Data published in this manner would stay available for the community.The content of such channel would be, perhaps, not immediately recognised, exploited, today neither tomorrow or even in a month or more, but one day or another it would be useful for someone, this i am convinced....I think it is the most important, again IMHO... A bit like meeting the requirement of providing an obligation of means (data, infos available for the community), but not of results (is someone will use it on short term ?...)It is more related to some "philosophical" point of view, i have to admit....One practical point is that illustrating by simple YT video link references an explaining text or review, especially when dealing with complex ideas or concepts, are also very convenient, i think so.Regards.Stéphane

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 12:41:48 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 21, 2022, 01:06:48 pmYootoob vids are almost always:talking heads (with or without the lips being visible), with useless pauses, ums and ahszero planning: little more than "here's me unboxing it, plugging it in, and it turned on OK"information sparse: I can speed-read at least a decade faster than people speaka waste of my life unless I can determine that it will (future tense) be worth watchingand don't contain any information that couldn't be put in words, and aren't searchable.Unless there is information thatrequiresmoving pictures, don't use a video. CGP Grey being an honourable exception E.g. the PACE soddering  videos that show solderflowingproperlyand improperly

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 01:22:39 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 27, 2022, 07:40:06 pm1) Not many members' polls get high numbers of responses here.2) Not mean at all. But I ask, why do an experiment if you don't intend to learn from the outcome? A ratio of 1:19 (now 1:25 ) is significant. That is just an approximation based on 4 questions and a null hypothesis that 25% (random) would pick any one of the responses.Regards, John

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 02:43:26 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on December 27, 2022, 06:20:57 pmI don't mind reviews by someone who bought the product and shares their experience with others. There are times when I get to see aspects not clear from online listings or product brochures. eg. there was a time when someone opened a welder up and showed the construction. The weld example were no better than I might have done but it still helped me.Whether the review is crude or polished I don't mind choosing. There's no one-size-fits-all or even a need for it. Do you want freedom of choice or freedom from choice?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 11:34:28 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on December 28, 2022, 02:43:26 amSilly question.A better question is how I can spend 30s (no more) choosing whether an article is worth reading. That's easy with a written article, and impossible with a video. That'snecessarysince many articles and most videos are a waste of time.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 09:42:59 pm
content: Now that the Poll has closed I will explain why I decided to create this threadA little while ago a very unpleasant character was banned from this forum for being closely associated with Infiray products. In an unwarranted tirade of hate filled messages sent to me, this person stated that my written reviews were “rubbish and useless to forum members” and his “professionally produced” YouTube videos were the modern standard for reviews. Having watched this individuals YouTube videos I strongly disagreed, but I refrained from saying so at the time.Now this individual had seriously ‘lost the plot’ in his conspiracy theory filled vile messages to me but he did make me question whether written reviews still had a place in modern forum life. Hence my original post and associated Poll. From this, I have established that forums are still a place where the written review has a place and an audience. There is not the drive that I feared for me to ‘convert’ to Video based reviews. Short video demonstrations maybe, but not long rambling videos about a product ! People like Dave and Mike already produce quality videos and I leave such to their expertiseFraser

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 09:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 28, 2022, 09:42:59 pmAmen. I have yet jumped/fallen into IR. but I read your stuff as the gospel should I ever delve into the low end.John

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2022, 10:14:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on December 28, 2022, 09:42:59 pmI feel I know how this forum works, and I trust the administrator(s) and moderators judgement here. Usually someone who ends up being banned, is NOT someone, whose opinion(s), should be taken with much credence.I.e. That is a strong indication to me, that their opinion(s), were much more sour grapes, hatred and other bad reasons. Rather than having significant merit.I'm NOT a thermal Imaging person on here, currently. But I hold your thermal imaging posts/threads/stuff, with extremely high regards!You seem to have an amazing breadth and depth of knowledge/experience in the field and an incredible eye for detail. I like reading your posts on thermal imaging, when I have sometimes encountered them.