[SOLVED] Help: Need Keysight 34461A DMM Data logging to PC (XL) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 10:56:05 pm
content: My main real-time data logger to XL , an HP3456A DMM, failed recently.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/hp-3456a-fault-displays-random-numbers/msg2984316/#newWhile I deal with that I would like to do XL logging with a Keysight 34461A DMM.The 34461A does not have a GPIB interface so I cannot use the 3456A GPIB to USB interface module.I am not that familiar with how the 34461A gathers data other than what I can see on the screen which can be saved as a screen shot.So, if there is data stored inside the DMM, I do not know how to access it.I had a look at Keysight BenchVue and it is not a very useful or friendly interface and is expensive to buy.Is there a way to interface the 34461A to XL on a PC via USB and do real-time data gathering and plotting?enut11

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 11:30:38 pm
content: You should have a free Benchvue license with your meter if you buy it new, did you ever activate it? It should do all the logging you need and export to the format of your choice.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2020, 11:46:41 pm
content: There are many ways to get data out of the Keysight 34446x series of DMMs.If you just want to dump data out of its internal buffer over the Ethernet connection, 0xfede's Keysight DMM Plot program can export to a .csv file:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight_s-new-34465a-(6-5-digit)-and-34470a-(7-5-digit)-bench-multimeters/msg1356944/#msg1356944You can also do it programmatically (Labview, BenchVue, Python, etc), via SCPI commands over Ethernet, USB, or the (optional) GPIB hardware module.For Benchvue, you actually don't need to use the licensed DMM application. You can use the (free) BenchVue Test Flow that comes with the (free) basic BenchVue application, since you can use it to send arbitrary SCPI commands in a loop and export the results to an Excel or .csv file.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 12:03:51 am
content: Quote from: NoisyBoy on March 28, 2020, 11:30:38 pmNo, I am not the original owner. I am not sure if it can be transferred. And, there is still that interface to deal with...

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 12:23:46 am
content: I found a recommendation for an obsolete Agilent program"DMM_Connectivity_Utility_1.0.2.0.exe"but it does not seem to be available on the Keysight web.Does anyone have a copy to share?enut11

author: gslick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 01:52:28 am
content: Quote from: enut11 on March 29, 2020, 12:23:46 amThe download link in the first message of this thread still works:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-agilent-dmm-connectivity-utility-software/I just downloaded DMM_Connectivity_Utility_1.0.2.0.exe from that link. Haven't actually tried to install it.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 02:21:50 am
content: Thanks all. Seems to hook up for me at least. Installed the latest IO libraries from Keysight and installed first then downloaded and installed the Agilent DMM.exe and installed second. Windoze 10 64bitProper play after lunch

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 02:25:11 am
content: Yes, that would also work. It came with my two 34401s back when I bought them under the Agilent brands, it works with the 34460 and 34461 but not the 34465 and 34470. When I want my 34401s and 34461 controlled under the same app, that’s what I would use.It gives you graphical view and data export, as well as instrument remote control. If you don’t have access to Benchvue, it is a good alternative.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 02:42:32 am
content: Rough and ready test. From cold the 34461A (Hiz) against my 735A Transfer standard that has been on for months. Cursors/Stats work nicely and export of the screen Cap and CSV below (inside the zip) too.New Toy to play with

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 10:31:14 am
content: Thanks @beanflying. That looks a lot better than BenchVue to me. I will try it tomorrow.enut11I did find a way to get data from the 34461A DMM to the PC. Involves saving via the front panel to USB stick and then transferring the CSV file to the PC and opening it in XL. Crude but it works.Button commands are Stop/Acquire/SaveReadings/Browse/External/SaveReadingsI don't bother using the DMM to name the file as it is too cumbersome selecting one letter at a time. Easier to accept the default name and use Windows to rename the file on the USB stick.enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 10:37:09 am
content: I had been using the USB stick too but it is a PITA and I only have one GPIB adapter so this is great and I can leave the adapter on my loggers.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2020, 06:10:27 am
content: A bit more of a play today. Used the Keysight Connection Expert to find and hookup the the 34461A via the LAN portThe DMM utility automatically found it and worked as per the USB hookup.Also had a bit of a play with the Web interface not that I can see me wanting to use it much.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 05:32:50 am
content: Just cross posting a link to this thread and softwarehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/Haven't tried it and it is early days but worth following/trying.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 06:12:33 am
content: Also just finished making a DB9 Null cable to suit my 34401A and cheap and cheerful CH340 based USB adapter.Took the usual bit of fiddling with parity and bits on the configuration expert to find and recognize it as the 34401A but works just like the 34461A on LAN. It also worked running both meters at once.CSV from the 34401A in the Zip if anyone is interested.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2020, 10:17:20 am
content: I have now had a chance to test the Agilent connectivity utility from Post #5 and I am pleasantly surprised at how good it is logging from my 34461A to PC via USB.It supports real-time logging, different display types, screen shots, data marker analysis and data export to name a few features.I am now happy to use this for my voltage ref tests.Thanks for the link @gslick.enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 04:15:32 am
content: Also worth a look is Ian Johnston's softwarehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/3458a-logging-via-windows-app-revisited/Works well for me on the 34461A / LAN but not on the 34401A via the USB adapter.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 04:43:21 am
content: Looks impressive but probably too sophisticated for my needs. Nice to know it exists though.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 09:02:20 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on April 01, 2020, 04:15:32 am@beanflying, which USB adapter do you use with your DMM?enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 09:14:14 am
content: I actually tried to find it the other day but it is one I have had laying around for a while. I think if you picked anything with the CH340 chip it would be much the same and work. The FTDI ones were a PITA for a while due to the drivers being borked with cloned chips by FTDI. This Amazon link looks very close but they can be had cheaper on Ali or Evilbayhttps://www.amazon.com/CH340G-Converter-Adapter-Support-Windows/dp/B07MKHBPTLjust search for 'CH340 Adapter' seems to find plenty.I am going to leave both the meters running overnight and take a look at the stats for both as I haven't run both over time and compared them. Interesting quick look is the 34401A bounces more from centre but is more stable on average (guess) while the 34461A wanders up and down but is tighter around the wandering

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 12:01:25 am
content: And confirming what I already knew my 34461A and 34401A have opposing Temp Co's in the cooler morning. Over 100k samples on each and the data exported as csv properly. Slightly interesting I could tell when I turned on my LED strip lighting behind the bench on my 34461A trace while the 34401A trucked past it better.Good free fairly low fuss logging addition to the arsenalTime to start looking at sub ppm level noise removal

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 06:33:10 am
content: @beanflying. Thats an interesting comparison between the 34401A and 34461A.I will be doing a similar test between my 3456A and 34461A using my Cropico 1.00000v standardI have always been curious as to which one is more stable over long periods of time and varying temperature - comparing old with new technology.I have been logging with my trusty (but now sick) 3456A for about 4 years and I marvel at how clever the HP engineers were back in the 1970senut11

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 10:20:32 pm
content: How did you get two instruments, one above the other, on the DMM utility? The only option I see on mine is side by side which has a limited time view.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:10:51 am
content: It is sort of hidden but you can undock the individual instruments from the main window. Punch the circled icon and then there is a corresponding one to redock it.So in my case I started them both and undocked both then resized them.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 09:57:15 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on April 07, 2020, 01:10:51 amLooks very interesting. Can you do us a favor and summarize what software & drivers you have installed to get the screen shots you're posting? I think you're running the old Keysight Connection Expert, is that right?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 10:06:44 am
content: As per this using the links just above it to get a copy of the Agilent DMM softwarehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-need-keysight-34461a-dmm-data-logging-to-xl/msg2987204/#msg2987204https://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=AU&lc=eng&nid=-33330.977662&id=2175637&pageMode=CV

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 01:54:59 pm
content: I had the Agilent DMM Utility installed but it can't find ANY instruments and, when I click on the IO button, I get nothing.I reinstalled the 2020 drivers but it's still the same. I want to try to reinstall the DMM Utility but all the links for fileshares seem to be broken or don't offer me a file for download; any chance of that Agilent DMM Utility file again?

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 02:24:42 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 07, 2020, 01:54:59 pmThe Agilent DMM utility is an earlier, non-licensed version of the Keysight BenchVue DMM app. It was created before your Keysight 34461A existed so it may require a change in SCPI ID for the 34461A to be identified.On your 34461A, go to the menu: Utility > System Setup > User Settings > SCPI ID and try changing it to either AT34461A or HP34401A.Run the Keysight Connection Expert to verify that it can be identified and then see if the Agillent DMM Utility sees it.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 02:45:58 pm
content: Duh! It never occurred to me that I may not be finding any instruments because there were no instruments it recognized! Let me try that.It didn't work. I think I need to reinstall Agilent DMM Connectivity Utility.I can't find the install file, anyone got a copy of that Agilent DMM Utility file again?

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 05:20:19 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 07, 2020, 02:45:58 pmTry this link:http://www.filedropper.com/dmmconnectivityutility1020

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 06:56:39 pm
content: That downloaded file installed the Lantronix device installer! Clearly the zip file has the wrong contents. Now I'm worried there was some malware.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 08:07:21 pm
content: I think you accidentally pushed the wrong button. The area at the top of the page is advertising with a a blue button associated with it.You should push the large grey button below it labelled "Download This File" and then enter the Captcha code that is displayed.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 11:27:05 pm
content: I did follow that procedure and the file name, DMM_Connectivity_Utility_1.0.2.0.exe, seemed to be right, but when I it installed, it was the Lantronix device installer.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2020, 11:44:45 pm
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on April 07, 2020, 11:27:05 pmThat's very strange.I just downloaded and unzipped it and it is the "Agilent DMM Connectivity Utility - InstallShield Wizard".Screenshot of initial windows after double clicking it is attached.

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 12:22:54 am
content: So I downloaded it again and went to install, this is what I saw...

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 12:29:19 am
content: As per my original post I installed this firsthttps://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=AU&lc=eng&nid=-33330.977662&id=2175637&pageMode=CVand made sure the instruments could be found.Then second installed the DMM utility. I have just put the DMMUtility on my Google Drive herehttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1uc1dmdf1s0_0AjhoizHfp9YxXrgRwzjH/view?usp=sharingas an alternate source

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 02:25:53 pm
content: OK, now I'm getting somewhere.I had already installed BUT NOT RUN Keysight Connection Expert (KCE). When I ran it, I was able to add the 34461A as a LAN instrument but I'm not sure I have the right settings. I have the 34461A set it to SCSI ID as a 34401A from the front panel.Now when I run up The Agilent DMM Connectivity Utility, it finds an instrument at 10.0.0.93 but there's a '?' over it and nothing is working. I also don't have a database set up under Manage Data.Any suggestions?

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 02:34:57 pm
content: Aha, I have fixed it. In the Keysight connection expert window there's a bit at the bottom for the screen for the selected instrument that shows installed IVI drivers, I had none but there's an  button which took me to the web page where I could download and install the IVI driver.Then I ran up Agilent DMM Connectivity Utility, right clicked on the '?' instrument, and then clicked on 'refresh' in the pop up window. Now I get what I expected - see picture - but I still have 'no record found' under 'Manage Data' All I had to do was make a brief recording and the system then made a data log entry. Now when I click on 'Manage Data' all the saved logs are listed.That file beanFlying linked to was the correct one and not the stupid Lantronix utility I kept getting even though the .exe was 'DMM_Connectivity_Utility_1.0.2.0.exe'

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 09:03:51 pm
content: I want to use a HP3456A to log data to PC via the Agilent DMM connect utility but the program does not recognise the instrument (has an 'X' above the instrument window).Keysight Connection Expert can see the 3456A and gives a green tick. Some info is missing on the RHS and this may interfere with how the Agilent software sees the 3456A?Any way to get the Agilent utility to connect to old HP gear?enut11

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 09:44:08 pm
content: The help file shows Supported Instruments and Interfaces:

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2020, 10:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 31, 2020, 06:12:33 am@beanflying, there are different ways to implement the RS232 to USB interface using a CH340 chip. Any idea on the best way to do it from the circuits in the appl note?enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 02:40:59 am
content: Other than using a few adapters and a bunch of boards with them fitted I have never looked into them as they just workI had a fairly close look at the adapter I have and through the plastic there is one blob on board and a few stray components so fairly close to what is shown in 7.3 would be my guess. Also it is the more likely solution used to keep the cost down by $0.10.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 03:12:33 am
content: I found this on eBay. Is this what you were referring to in a previous reply?https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-CH340-USB-To-RS232-Ports-9-Pin-DB9-Cable-Serial-COM-Port-Adapter-Converter/264694256109?hash=item3da101d1ed:g:ORwAAOSwxGxejsNkAlso, what was the purpose of the null rs232 cable?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2020, 03:28:26 am
content: What I had been using was the one on the left in the photo attached below. I dug out the other RS232 (hadn't tried it previously) leaded one like you just linked. It caused a windoze error when I first plugged it in but I uninstalled and reinstalled it and it found the drivers and worked with the connection expert and DMM utulity. It is also a one blob only device so it is most likely near identical to the dongle version internally.So it seems that 'most' CH340 based cheap dongles or leads should work when teamed with a DB9 Null Cable.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2020, 08:26:00 pm
content: @beanflyingHad a look at Wiki and there are 4 types of Null RS232 cable wiring diagrams:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modemNo hardware handshakingLoopback handshakingPartial handshakingFull handshakingWhich one did you use in your 34401A to PC via the CH340 interface?enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 12:37:53 am
content: This snip from the manual should sort it out

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 08:48:38 am
content: Well, I built that null cable and connected it between the USB CH340 and 34401A (set to RS232) but I get no response from Keysight Connection Expert.I need to find a way to test the 34401A RS232 port.enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 08:56:21 am
content: Make sure your 34401A has the following settings.Set the Interface to RS-232 (default is GPIB)Baud Rate 9600Parity EVEN and 7 BitsThen have a large threatening hammer on the bench as a warning to it should it not connect

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 09:13:40 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 01, 2020, 08:56:21 amYes, already done that, without the large hammer

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 09:19:00 am
content: Make sure the adapter is showing up under Windoze 'Device Manager' and not just under the current BS dumb dumb viewer.If it isn't there or shows as a problem then remove it and reinstall the CH340.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 10:56:20 am
content: Yes, the interface shows up under Win 10 device manager

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 11:03:43 am
content: I have locked up the shack for the night as it is cold and wet. Recheck the cable/connections your end I guess apart from that I will look at any setting on the IO manager tomorrow that might help. That said I can't remember anything not working straight up for me when I first installed them

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 08:45:30 pm
content: Checked the interface cable againI set up 9600, 7 data, even parity, 2 stop on Com1Fails Connection Expert test. I suspect RS232 port is dead

author: Andreas
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 09:26:54 pm
content: Quote from: enut11 on May 01, 2020, 08:45:30 pmThe 34401A needs a cross over cable on the RS232 side.Quote from: beanflying on April 02, 2020, 12:01:25 aminteresting: in my comparison the 34401A behaved around a factor 3 better than my K2000 against EMI:see here and the following post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/emi-measurements-of-a-volt-nut/msg2684091/#msg2684091with best regardsAndreas

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 12:11:18 am
content: Thanks Andreas, I made the RS232 crossover cable as per reply #44 but no luck communicating

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2020, 01:10:37 am
content: Quote from: enut11 on May 01, 2020, 08:45:30 pmNow I have had a coffee, try using the settings on mine as per below. The stop bits on yours and flow control in particular.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 12:35:03 am
content: Ok, will give it a go but seem to remember the 34401A manual saying the Stop bits are fixed at 2?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 05:46:57 am
content: How have you got on? To get those settings above working my 34401A is running Even and 7 bits displayed on it. I haven't bothered changing it but it works as is so I am happy.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 08:03:21 am
content: Well, it turns out that I needed to update my I/O libraries to the latest version (2020) as you pointed out more than once!Now all working. I can log simultaneously with two HP meters.I am glad you mentioned the CH340 interface for the 34401A RS232 port. I bought it many years ago and gave up when I could not get it going. I dismissed it as cheap junkThat little tip has saved me from buying another expensive 82357B GPIB-USB interface.Thanksenut11

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 01:39:09 am
content: @beanflying, one thing I have not got right yet is how to have two charts, one above the other, as in reply #18.I can easily get the two charts to show side-by-side. I can then un-dock one and re-size it but when I try to do the same for the second chart, the first one disappears from view!enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2020, 01:56:10 am
content: I suspect is is just going behind the main window and becoming hidden on you rather than disappearing. The undocked windows just sit one in front of the other like standard Windoze ones. Then run the mouse over the edge or corner and pull on the handles that show up to resize them.

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2020, 09:48:27 am
content: I did it by using Alt-Tab to bring back each window after it was un-docked. A bit clumsy.Also, I cannot use any universal commands at the top of the main screen as it makes the un-docked windows disappear again.Anyway I have a work-around if I need it.enut11

author: enut11
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2020, 11:51:53 pm
content: Well, I have learnt not to mess with the Agilent Utility while it is logging. I was trying to flag an event on-the-fly when the program lost contact with the dmm.Meter locked up, PC locked up. Had to reboot everything!Still nice that I can log 2 variables at the same time, and it can be done in 2 ways:1) Using the main start/stop controls at the upper left, the resulting file logs both variables to a single file, or2) using the individual window's start/stop controls at the lower left logs separate files for each meter.enut11

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 06:27:29 am
content: Nice find, something for me to play with some time

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2021, 12:50:19 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on April 08, 2020, 12:29:19 amSeems Keysight may have removed the DMM Utility from their site. Still available on the Google Drive link above if needed and it should stick as I have plenty of spacehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-need-keysight-34461a-dmm-data-logging-to-xl/msg3004796/#msg3004796