Equipping my first home lab. I kindly ask for your help with suggestions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TheKid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 03, 2022, 11:58:20 pm
content: I am a seasoned professional who works with low-level firmware and some hardware debugging. I am looking to build my own lab at home and my budget for lab equipment is $2500USD. Trying to get the best bang for the buck equipment. I have done some research but there are so many options out there and it's hard to tell which buys are good with my limited budget.I will be taking on fairly complex projects for an individual and am familiar with using all sorts of testing equipment professionally.For the PSU I definitely do need 3 channels so far I have specced out these two1. Siglent SPD3303X-E2. Rigol DP832I prefer the Rigol because for me the 3rd channel is essential and it seems with rigol all 3 can be programmed. Siglent's 3rd channel is fixed.For the DC Load I'm split between1. Rigol DL30212. Siglent 1T8511A+I also need an Oscilloscope with minimum requirements of 4 channels 100Mhz and 1GSa/s. I was thinking about Rigol MSO5104 ~$1300. I can't find anything that is comparable to this. I am interested in hacks that increase functionality without hampering its use. I don't know what hacks are still viable.Also, I am genuinely thinking of just getting something cheaper, like say in the $500s range while keeping up with mentioned requirements and just buy a Saelee Logic Pro 8 that is ~1k. I have not really used the Digital functions of the oscilloscope at work(please change my mind). I use a Saelee for I2c, UART etc. It has a good search function too.My tentative budget allocation is like this.PSU+ Load + Ocsilo/with digital functions(or saelee)$400+$500+$1500I will mostly deal with digital electronics and circuit board design for battery-operated devices. I foresee possibly doing some kind of power use analysis on the hardware I design but that is the most I will be needing in terms of special functions.I am open to other brands but I find that Rigol and Siglent have the best bang for the buck. I don't mind used items but the hassle that comes with it is just not worth it unless there is a local pickup which I have not been able to find good ones in Atlanta.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 12:05:32 am
content: Look at the GW Instek GPP-4343. Neither of the power supplies you are listing are very good in terms of useability. On top of that the GPP-4343 can also act as a load.GW Instek GDS1054B or MicSig TO1000 series are also nice oscilloscopes for a low price.

author: bateau020
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 06:35:59 am
content: If you are focusing on battery operated devices, a low cost power analyzer like the Joulescope or zs-2102-a might be interesting. For power drain profiling, you may want more resolution than your average scope can give you.For a low cost scope: stay away from the Rigol 1054Z, as the protocol decoding is flawed (only based on on-screen frame, not in-memory). Siglent SDS1104X-E is better in that respect, and hackable to 200MHz. I also found a low voltage differential probe to be invaluable, as scope's MATH functions have always disappointed me.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 06:51:21 am
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 03, 2022, 11:58:20 pmYou can get the MSO5074 for $1000 and unlock the extra bandwidth, it's easy (and reversible).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 10:58:44 am
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 03, 2022, 11:58:20 pmWelcome to the forum.SPD3303X-E $ 399SDL1020X-E $ 499SDS2104X Plus$ 1399Total spend $ 2,297^ three popular sellers for us.PS, all 3 can be enhanced.

author: TheKid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 03:27:40 pm
content: The GPP-4323 looks solid. I don't quite understand how the load feature works on this one but I think I can forgo a load for now.After researching a bit more in this forum I have decided to put Siglent SDS2104X Plus on top of my list.If I add up these two products it will be $2100 before taxes. I think I can live with this for now. Probably use the rest of the money on some good probes and power resistors for source testing.I have boiled things down to two options. Unless somebody else can confuse me even moreOption:1Siglent SDS2104X PlusGPP-4323Pro/Con: The GPP-4323 has a num pad and a LAN option could be useful for powering down remotely.Option: 2SPD3303X-ESDL1020X-ESDS2104X PlusPro/Con: SPD3303X-E This does not have a num pad and I am unsure how usable siglent's system is with just knobs.Channel 3 has fixed voltages with no current limit feature.Banana plug connector issues and various usability issues.I prefer to have a dedicated load.Update: Thank you all for your suggestions I have decided to go with Option 1. I predict to outgrow these entry-level options quickly in a year or two so probably a good idea to buy equipment that can deliver. The siglent Oscilloscope is nice in terms of delivery though I hear math options are lacking. This is fine. I won't be getting into high-end analog circuits anytime soon.

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 05:40:33 pm
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 04, 2022, 03:27:40 pmWhether you outgrow the SDS2000X Plus “quickly” or not is one question. The more important one is what you really need if this ever happens. If you get to the true challenges in analog engineering and start designing your own high speed bus, then you’ll of course want at least an upper midrange or even high-end scope that has all the applications like eye diagram and jitter analysis as well as the active probe support that’s required for such developments. Yet such instruments are expensive and not always the best general purpose option, so the SDS2000X Plus might still remain handy as a daily driver.The math options aren’t lacking at all. The SDS2000 series already has very advanced math with powerful FFT, as well as deep measurements, which you can’t take for granted in competing instruments.The SDS2000X Plus just happens to have only two math channels, but it has a formula editor. In many applications this makes it more powerful than a scope with four math channels but only math on math.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 06:18:13 pm
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 04, 2022, 03:27:40 pmIf your budget is a 'for now' budget with the possibility of adding stuff later then #1 seems good. You likely won't 'outgrow' either of those instruments anytime soon. The math implementation (and lack of per-channel ERES in the acquisition menu) is a quirk of the SDS2000X+, but I certainly wouldn't say that it is lacking in any way. In the few instances I've used it for something complex, once I poked through the menus and figured it out I thought that the results were outstanding. And the 'high-end analog' capabilities are also outstanding due to the low front end noise and 10-bit mode.I don't know exactly what you do, but perhaps you will need an SMU before you need a full-fledged DC load? Logic and current probes for the scope? A signal generator? Leave some space on your bench...

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 08:29:35 pm
content: Wise choice selecting the SDS2104X Plus, very capable and versatile DSO. We just posted about using this DSO to show parallel self resonance of inductorshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-kind-of-device-can-measure-a-coils-self-resonance-frequency/Regarding the SDP3303X-E. The UI is a bit quirky, but one can get used to it quickly, and the non-standard spacing of the output terminals in just dumb!!! We have 3 of these and the GPP-4323, so can speak from actual user experience rather than speculation.The GPP-4323 is the superior PS with 4 independent outputs and all can be individually set for current and voltage, and all are very accurate, and built-in load function (altho we've never used it)...hands down the better supply!! However, it costs almost twice the SDP3303X-E (which is easily enhanced to the SDP3303X), and as of to date has no means we're aware of to do a user calibration. The SDP has a user calibration routine, although this must be carefully followed (we screwed one of ours up, but Siglent NA fixed it under warranty)Even tho the GPP-4323 is the superior PS, we seem to always reach for the SDP3303X-E for quick measurements...so one might assume the SDP UI isn't that imposing as you might guess from all the negative comments.Anyway, hope this helps from actual real time user experience....and don't forget the discount at Saelig!!Best,

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2022, 09:27:30 pm
content: QuoteBest scope choice in this price range, no doubts.Actually we use three of them daily, it´s the "cheapest serious scope"...PSUs, I would take care of their noise behaviour and if you can´t get "high enough" what budget concerns, better take linear regulation ones for EMI reasons.

author: TheKid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 03:04:19 am
content: Quote from: Performa01 on July 04, 2022, 05:40:33 pmI meant I will outgrow the PSU and load quickly. The Oscilloscope it top notch. The complaints I have is just an echo from other much older posts on this forum. The formula editor sounds very good! Im excited.

author: TheKid
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 03:19:39 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 04, 2022, 09:27:30 pmYup, that is evident. I think it beats the Rigol 5000 series handily given the complaints about the software. I have used one of the lower rigol models it has cartoonish fonts and UI is all over the place To me it is no point having numbers on paper if the thing fails in basic functions. Hopefully, I will like the siglent. Although to me having one dial for all channels is a no go in terms of usage. Unfortunately, siglent appears to have only one. But beggars can't be choosers it's nice to see mid-tier manufacturers bring the price down for individuals.Ultimately yes I will need a better PSU that is linear but that is a couple of years away. A proper resistive load as well but maybe I can make these myself.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 04:38:23 am
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 05, 2022, 03:19:39 amVertical gain and position are only two of many controls and adjustments on a scope. I have scopes both ways and it really doesn't make much difference once you get used to it.QuoteUnless I'm badly misinformed, the GPP-4323islinear and has one large toroidal transformer.

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 05:09:57 am
content: Quote from: TheKid on July 05, 2022, 03:19:39 amI keep hearing the complaint about one multiplexed vertical control vs. individual controls for each analog input channel.The serious question: is it really worth it?For serious R&D work, most of us set up the DSO for the required measurement and then tweak the circuit / firmware of our project instead of scope settings, until the measurement results are where they should be.Really not much need for constantly twiddling knobs on the scope.For service & repair, we might probe a high number of test points in sequence, thus maybe need to adapt the vertical sensitivity continuously, but this is usually done with just one single channel, so a multiplexed control doesn’t make any difference.And finally the question, why so inconsequent? What makes the analog input channels so special? Why not have individual controls for all the other (zoom, math, reference, digital) channels as well? This could be a total of up to 32 individual control groups and users of a mixing desk in a home studio might get envious 😉Answer: because some users that make such complaints might tend to use their DSOs like analog CROs and the old boat anchors did not have any additional channels. Few of them had more than two analog channels, but tiny screens in return, so the space requirements for individual vertical controls were not a problem at all.The arrangement in e.g. an SDS2000X Plus is consistent. We have the shared vertical controls, surrounded by buttons to select all possible sources: Channels 1 to 4, Digital, Math and Ref. Only Zoom is not at an ideal place, but then the switch between main and zoom window will usually be done by a simple screen touch anyway.Anyway, the individual vertical controls are a dying species, mostly found in old(er) designs these days. The more modern ones of the big boys don’t waste front panel space on individual controls but rather have a large screen instead…What about Keysight 1000X, Infinium MXR-, UXR-, EXR-Series?What about LeCroy WaveSurfer, HDO, WaveRunner, WavePro, WaveMaster, LabMaster (practically the complete lineup)?What about Tektronix 2-, 3-, 4-, 5- and 6-Series MDO/MSO?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 08:50:53 am
content: To be honest, more knobs to play with would confusing me...I´ve "learned" on lecroy scopes, so for me it´s no problem even when fast acting.Press channel button x, adjust, then press button channel y, adjust...a matter of "milliseconds"...

author: Hexley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 03:28:58 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 05, 2022, 04:38:23 ambdunham7 is absolutely right about the GPP_4323 -- it is linear and has a toroidal transformer. While that transformer is large in the electrical sense, it is physically quite compact -- with the welcome result that the GPP-4323 has a much smaller footprint on the desktop than its competitors. Really quite welcome if space is at a premium on one's workbench.The fan is also a very quiet at normal loads, which is another welcome feature.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 04:12:35 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 05, 2022, 04:38:23 amYes the GPP-4323 is linear and has a toroidal transformer, same for the SDP3303X-E. Both have similar noise levels, are ~ the same size, and fan noise is not an issue with either, they are very quiet.During our career we developed SOTA circuits, systems and semiconductor chips, and after retiring a few years ago still engage in advanced developments. These continuing efforts require accurate, low noise outputs with precise voltage and current limit settings, and no overshoot on turn on or off and why we selected the GPP-4323 and SDP3303X-E. Many of the circuits we've been involved with have chips that cost upwards of $10K, so one is very careful and utilizes quality supplies for test and evaluation.Here's how the 3 SDP and GPP stack up on the bench.Best,

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2022, 05:00:46 pm
content: If you can live with 24MHz and 8 channels on the logic side (at least to start), there are <$20 logic analyzers that use the sigrok software. That’s plenty for most of the low speed serial and digital interfaces, and given the price, I bought one many months before I needed it. Once I needed it, it worked nicely (and was way easier than the Rigol 1054Z that I have).