how much should I charge - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2012, 04:49:24 pm
content: Work are asking me to design electronics for them. At this point I'm thinking - why don't I offer to take the assembly work on at home (having me or them getting the boards made). But how much do you charge for such labor ? I want to be competitive (and I can as I don't have too many overheads) but not cheat myself.I have to assemble them and I guess test them.

author: Pat Pending
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2012, 08:06:55 pm
content: Friends at work do exactly just this, but as salaried employees they are expected to do it for free even though they were not hired for this express purpose.The company covers the costs incurred from part sourcing, kitting and assembly. Probably not what you wanted to hear.That aside, you can start with a number that is 3 or 4 times cost, not forgetting that your time and tools usage are also part of that cost equation.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2012, 09:22:24 pm
content: well I'll be doing it as a separate subcontractor, separate from work, I've already done enough for them in designing the damn thing

author: BalticLab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2012, 03:26:44 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 17, 2012, 09:22:24 pmOne of the biggest problems is strictly separating work you do for them as a freelancer and stuff you do for them as part of your actual employment. It's not unheard of that employers abuse their position to pressure employees, who are also external contractors, into playing exactly by their rules (Price, Budget, etc.).A former colleague of mine also does freelance services for his employer. He did take out the time and money to have a lawyer design a very thorough contract between him and his employer for the freelance work. They work together very well since then.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2012, 05:58:11 am
content: well they don't have the tools or skills themselves so I'd have to take it home to do and no money = no work, as it is they are clueless so if i turn round and tell them to get lost they will find themselves paying a lot more elsewhere.PCB train want £7 each for small boards with 20 parts, 50 boards go to £10 ea. and these will need an off board TO-220 package and I should also assemble it into the case to make sure the TO-220 is properly isolated from the case, they can provide the cases (as they need to machine it first)

author: Jimmy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2012, 08:46:43 am
content: What I would do is quote for the job and quote high as it is a pain in ass when someone thinks it is a conflict of interest. Always get someone else to write out the purchase order and sign a delivery docket. I number my boards so it is easy to keep track of exactly what has changed hands. The good thing is I do warranty repairs during work hrs

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2012, 08:49:59 am
content: yea I'll go as high as I can without loosing it to another supplier. Thing is you see I'm writing the firmware and will probably have to program the chips so it can start to look quite involved and I can offer to take all that load off them.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 09:40:45 pm
content: Depends on the way you are organised, and how the payment is done.Are you an official company with legal structure etc? In my country someone who can't write costs 34 euro/hour. Trained techs cost +60euro/hour.Is it a semi- or complete illegal evening job? I know people repairing tractors and skidsteers for 45 euro like this.The conversion euro/hour to Pounds per Job can only be made by you..

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 05:53:08 am
content: I'll be doing it as a business (self employed sole trader)

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 06:14:45 am
content: Quote from: Simon on October 18, 2012, 05:58:11 amAlternatively you could find yourself in court over breach of contract. You'd have to clearly exhibit that all of the product development was yours and none was done as part of your employ otherwise they could readily claim part or full ownership of the IP.It's a messy area and would not be the first of these arrangements to end up turning ugly.Do a business plan. You don't decide what you sell things for, you first work out your cost of sales and work from there. Cost of sales will be much more than a component list and an estimate of labour.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 06:46:30 am
content: The development is being done on their time, although I'm having to work on the firmware at home as they don't have the gear for bread boarding and testing the program out, but I will make known later the involvement of this sort of project as they have no clue what they are doing or asking for or the software needed so I'll tell them what they need to buy and how much it costs for next time.I am offering the assembly only of the boards as a contractor. They don't want to build in house and like i said don't even have a half decent soldering iron for through hole parts never mind SMD.The next bombshell I'll have to drop is that whoever they choose has to be able to program the pics once soldered into the boards.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 06:56:07 am
content: Simon, why not just offer to do this work as part of your regular job on the condition that you're paid overtime?Going self-employed as well can work, but it's a bit of a pain to set up, and if you're doing all your work for one company I really don't see the advantage.Being an employee means you already have contractual terms set up, you get paid, and you get covered by employer's liability insurance. The company assumes responsibility for the finished product once it goes out into the field, and that can be a big deal depending on what the product actually is and how it's used.I work 3 days/week as an employed design engineer, and the other 2 days a week a self-employed design consultant. My consultancy work is fun and varied, but setting it up properly was a pain, and there are significant overheads which may or may not apply in your case.For example, I have a professionally drawn-up contract with each of my customers which clearly stipulates who owns what and who is liable in the event that things go wrong. I have professional indemnity insurance, an accountant, and a lab with all the proper tools and equipment.Of course, I charge accordingly. I have an MEng degree and 15 years' experience as a professional design engineer, and although I have had potential clients baulk at the fact that I charge more per hour than a decorator or mechanic, most of my customers recognise the value of my service and come back again and again.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 25, 2012, 07:00:27 am
content: thats why I'm offering assembly only with testing of the board (put in inputs and check outputs to make sure it behaves), the design side is their liability as I'm doing it on company time although I am having to do some homework on it too but that has nothing to do with my offer of assembling it for them.I'd take work from anyone which is why I'd do it self employed and want to sell my own stuff.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 09:20:35 am
content: I agree with the above, going freelance work for your employer is very messy and should be avoided.As I said on the phone, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to take your work home with you - just charge the overtime. If you're competing, tell them how many hours it'll take you to do it and they'll see it's cheaper. Even if it cost the same or a little more, they'd be better off choosing you because they know you and if it goes wrong they can discipline you which they can't do to a faceless person on the Internet.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2012, 11:30:45 am
content: I'd rather charge £10 a board than get £8.25 p/h to assemble 20 and hourI'd also not end up paying so much NI, they are looking at local companies to assemble it. At the moment a cable maker ! I'm still trying to get them to comprehend that the assembler won't neccessarily make the PCB