HELP PICKING HIGHSCHOOL COURSES - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: toxicnos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 02:46:04 am
content: I am in grade 8 and i need to pick grade 9 courses in February, the school that is close to me has very few electronics courses. i am posting a like of the courses, I need help picking courses because i want to get into the field of electronics engineering. I have the marks and the determination. Can someone tell me what courses to pick for electronics engineering. I don't know if this high school is right for me but is is sort of close to my househttps://www.careercruising.com/individual/CP_CourseCalendar.aspx?SID=17411&DID=7078the link to the electronics courses. please not I am picking grade 9 courses.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 03:41:50 am
content: Sheesh. My school has NO courses anywhere close to electronics. I took a advanced placement physics course which only covered ohms law... just take a lot of high math. If you are clever, it will help you a ton

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 04:22:37 am
content: I hate to tell you this, but if you want to go into electronics engineering you should not be looking first and foremost for electronics courses in grade 9. The courses you need are mathematics (likely to be compulsory, but do as much mathematics as you can if you have options). Then science subjects; physics first, then chemistry. Avoid "General Science" as a subject, as this is likely to be diluted and dumbed down. You want real sciences like physics, chemistry and biology. After that, look for design and technology courses like electronics and workshop skills (metal or wood). Practical electronics is fun and you should do it when you have the time and if you can. Similarly practical workshop and design classes are fun and you should do those too. But only after you have signed up for mathematics and physics. And don't forget the arts subjects like languages, music, history, geography, etc. Pick the ones that interest you.If you are looking at a school that does not offer specific classes in physics, chemistry and biology, consider another school. I know it sounds boring, but your main objective in high school is to get the best chance at university/college admission possible. And studying electronics in high school is not going to help with that. Sorry(In case you're wondering, if you want to be an electronics engineer they will teach you all you need to know in a university course/program when you get there. It doesn't really help you to focus on such a subject in high school. Use high school to get a broad education, to have fun, and to get the qualifications you need to get into a good university.)

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 04:43:15 am
content: I think IanB has good advice - without a doubt you should take as many fundamental classes as possible and do as well / learn as much as possible. Math, Science (Physics and Chemistry), maybe some computer (IT/software) classes, and some complimentary courses (languages, history, etc.) will help you prepare for electronics engineering. Having said that, if you have room for an elective and you want to take something such as TIJ1O1, it might help fuel your passion. But if you can excel in one subject that will help propel you it is Math, Math, and more Math. Keep earning the qualifications and keep the determination. Knowing where you are headed and working hard and smart can bring success and build your passion - which will carry you still further.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 05:44:55 am
content: Yep, take all the math and science you can. You'll need to know algebra inside-out. Trigonometry and calculus are also useful. Tell you advisor, counselor, or whomever helps you pick classes that you want to go to college to become an engineer. I just peeked at your school's course list, and you should definitely be heading toward the calculus and vectors and advanced functions courses; if not right away, then take the prerequisites now and try to get there as soon as possible.Unfortunately, in the math courses, they probably won't talk much about electronics. It may not even be obvious to you why math is useful. But when you look at an oscilloscope, you will see lots of sine waves and exponentials, and it's important to understand where those are coming from. I wish I could explain it in one post, but I'm afraid I can't. But I promise it will be revealed to you if you study the math and then take electronics classes in college. For now, read as many data sheets as you can, and look at the equations and graphs. You might even take some data sheets in and show them to your math teacher and see if you can get some help working through some. Watch this video of Dave's to see how algebra gets used when interpreting a data sheet.http://www.eevblog.com/2011/09/29/eevblog-204-designing-a-li-ion-battery-gauge-with-the-lm3914/Note that, in electrical engineering, there's much more than just algebra and trigonometry that's useful -- that video is just one little thing to whet your appetite.In science, go for the physics and chemistry as much as you can.The math and science you take in high school will serve you well even if you change your mind and go from electronics to any other field of engineering. I'm just pointing that out, not trying to steer you in a different direction.There's actually nothing bad to learn in high school, as long as you keep up the math and science. English is always needed, because, whatever else you do, you'll have to communicate. A foreign language is never harmful. Arts and music are good, even if you don't really need much of them to do electronics.Looking at your school's course list, the technology classes appear to me that they are more oriented toward students who want to go into technology without getting a college engineering degree. And they're not directly electronics related, either. I would encourage you to take as much of them as you're interested in, as long as you have first filled your schedule with as much math as you can take. The math is more important, and will open the doors to doing serious electronic design in college.

author: jabramo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:16:15 am
content: So how this is how engineering works in Ontario Universities, you need university level grade 12 math, calculus and vectors, english, physics, chem and any one course of your choosing that is university or uni/college level (I took food & nutrition).If I were you I'd focus on those 6 courses more than anything. If you take a technology class that is an open credit (doesn't count towards uni) and score a 99 it won't matter if you do poorly in any of the mandatory classes.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:23:57 am
content: If you're still debating which school to go to, you might consider this (I don't know how close you are to the GTA):http://www.utschools.ca

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:39:20 am
content: Most was already said. Maybe one thing, if you have an art class that actually includes drawing/painting/illustrating stuff, and if you have a bit of talent, that can also help later for engineering.Being able to quickly sketch something in a readable form, on paper or whiteboard, if possible in 3D, nicely laying out the colors of your PowerPoint slides, drawing a funny comic figure to light up a discussion, having a bit of the right feeling to typesetting and laying out a document, etc. can all help very much. ThinkAdvanced Dave CAD 3D v13.3 with Color and AnimationActually anything about communication is very useful. Technical writing, making videos, doing animations, etc. are useful skills not only as an engineer. But as an engineer you might stick out, because many engineers aren't very good at communicating their ideas (or even just communicating with their colleagues).

author: Seg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:52:20 am
content: Math is the basis of everything. Math is hard. In my experience, advanced mathematics knowledge is the #1 thing that will put you ahead of everyone else and make you more valuable when you enter the workforce in any science/engineering field.Learn all the math you can in high school, if you don't learn it in HS you just end up paying a lot of money to do it in college instead. Better to learn it when the taxpayer is paying for it.(Note: USA here)

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:59:35 am
content: QuoteHmmph. If your school has "electronics" "elective" classes for grade 9, by all means take them. Just don't take them INSTEAD of doing as well in the math/science classes as you can. Most schools in the US these days seem to have very limited opportunities for "electives"; my kids' school only has a "budget" for them to take 6 classes a day, and they were all used up (math, science, english, history, foreign language, and gym.) IIRC, there were two electives a 9th grader could take because they had special status: band, and drama. It's sorta sad :-( Back when I went to school, we had lots of electives, and "electronics shop" was taught in a semi-vocational way. Wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, electronics shop. In its way, it was a sort of head-start on (HS) physics, it helped me get some summer jobs, and it was moderately fun. It wasn't really the beginning of an "electronics engineering" career. (That said, if you show up at university knowing the resistor color code, how to solder, and what various "real" components actually LOOK like, and how to read a schematic and create an actual curcuit, you'll be ahead of a lot of people. Just not curricula-wise.)Your list of classes only had one option listed for a 9th grader. Do you really have any choice?

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 08:08:19 am
content: wrt Mathematics: one thing I would say is more important: having guts.

author: Seg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 10:57:06 am
content: Basically, in the long run a high-school level electronics class isn't going to teach you anything you can't learn yourself with a soldering iron, a few Velleman kits and listening to Dave for a few hours...Math is going to be your best bang for your buck in HS. And yes, communication is vital. Pay attention in English/writing class.I skipped the beginner electronics class in HS and took an "independent study" electronics class. Which amounted to me and a few other guys just sitting in the back of the lab screwing around doing whatever we wanted while the beginners built their Velleman blinky LED kits.I blowtorched some RAM chips off an old ISA video card and put them in my even older Atari Mega ST 2 , upgrading it to a luxurious 4mb. Then I coded a spinning 3D cube in qbasic on the old 386 DOS machine that was in the back of the lab, with the help of Denthor's demo scene tutorials...

author: toxicnos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 12:22:36 pm
content: Wow guys thanks so much for putting all this time into helping me. This is why i love the eevblog community so helpful. Thatks for helping me become one of you. I fill remember what you guys toldme. THANK YOU!!!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 12:34:54 pm
content: The ultimate goal here it go on to study Electronics Engineering at university correct?If so, wouldn't you pick the classes that will assure you the highest grade in order to get into the best university?Plus you usually need to include high levels of math and physics classes as well.Electronics classes would be fun, but I can't see how they would have any impact upon getting you the marks needed to get into a given university course? They won't really tech you anything that will give you a major leg up at university.But that's the way it is in Australia. Basically, whatever mark you get in high school (called HSC here) determines what courses you can get into at any given university.

author: toxicnos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 12:40:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 13, 2013, 12:34:54 pmWow Dave commented thanks so much I understand what you mean and I really appriciate your and everyones help.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 12:44:29 pm
content: Quote from: Seg on November 13, 2013, 06:52:20 amNot necessarily. I've worked in EE for 20+ years and never had to use an integral once. But YMMV, and generally good advice of course. But let's not open that debate againWhere the math really matters that is guaranteed to pay dividends every time is in your EE course. If you are good at math, you should pretty much breeze through engineering. Those without good math skills will generally struggle pretty badly.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 01:02:47 pm
content: I will echo Dave's statement above. I'm not discounting it's importance, but the hardest math I've done was in school. In my 15+ years as an EE basic algebra is all I use in day to day activity. Keep in mind, the EE field is pretty vast, some areas you won't use any, others you'll live in Diff-EQ land with heaping sides of advanced calculus.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 05:37:45 pm
content: Quoteuniversity admissions (which I've been going through quite recently) aren't quite that naive. They're well aware that some classes are more difficult than other classes. And they'll look at 3 different GPAs (plus the standardized tests) For sure, don't take "easy" classes just because you know you can get good grades.That said, if your school has guidance counselors, it's not too early to talk to one "which engineering schools do we send people to, and what classes do they like to see on your record?"You might look at an electronics class as a chance to get credits for building projects and learning stuff that you would have done anyway. My last year in "electronics shop" was mostly independent study, and I wrote a nice little paper on CMOS logic (including internal operation.) It wasn't up to the level of analysis we'd later do in college, but it was quite a bit beyond normal HS-level class material.

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:15:31 pm
content: As everyone else has said, math and physics are the two most important subjects, by far. If you take calculus in high school, you spend an entire year on it. In college, Calc I is only a single semester. The same goes for physics. It's easier to learn things when they are less crammed into a shorter amount of time.When I was in high school, I took 2 programming classes (Java and C++), a logic systems class, and AutoCAD. Were any of these necessary? No. Did taking them make the first year of college easier? Yes, absolutely. At my school, we had a lot of available electives, and it only makes sense to take the technical ones if you can. That said, the core math and physics is far more important.

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 06:18:19 pm
content: I'll also add that advanced placement classes in History, Language, or whatever can get you out of taking them in college, meaning you have more university time for real subjects. I started out in college with over a semester's worth of credit.

author: Seg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 09:19:35 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on November 13, 2013, 01:02:47 pmWell that's what I'm saying, advanced math isn't strictly necessary, but it will open you up to some more esoteric, possibly well paying positions. And admittedly I'm talking from more of a CS point of view.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 09:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on November 13, 2013, 01:02:47 pmI find that my understanding of the fundamentals of calculus makes just about any circuit involving capacitors or inductors significantly more intuitive than without. Most people don't need advanced diff eq, but at least put enough effort into your basic calc class that you come out understanding what it is that differentiation and integrationdo.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 10:01:42 pm
content: One of the important things about mathematics is that it should not be thought of as solving equations or rearranging symbols in a formula. Mathematics is really about seeing and understanding patterns and conceptual relationships between things. Developing your ability to do this by studying mathematics can be of enormous help in engineering and many other fields of study.When I do engineering I spend a lot of visualizing the behavior of various components and predicting what they will do and how they interact with each other. When I do this I am employing mathematical thinking, even if I am not writing down equations.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 10:07:08 pm
content: Quote from: Seg on November 13, 2013, 09:19:35 pmTrue, often not a job requirement, but like Chris and Ian said, when you know the math you can visualize/conceptualize what your building or designing. This understanding will make you a better engineer.The math isn't hard, might as well learn it, who know what you'll be doing in 10+ years.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 06:09:03 am
content: Advanced math *is* necessary to pass your course in uni though.The pace of even first year mathematics, especially if you go to Waterloo or Queen's or UofT or McGill can easily drown you if you're not prepared.I remember about half my classmates getting slaughtered in first year linear algebra and calculus, feeling totally overwhelmed even on the first day, not because they were unintelligent, but because their high-school education didn't properly prepare them. Many dropped out after first year; depressed and disillusioned.I know the OP is worried about *getting* into university, but it's also important to be able to hit the ground running once you're there, even more important to have good fundamentals if you intend to engage in massive amounts of debauchery, which I highly recommend (try not to drink too much, or at all if possible ;-) )

author: toxicnos
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2013, 12:38:20 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on November 13, 2013, 05:37:45 pmThanks so much for the advice.