Microscope suggestion - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:57:23 am
content: Hallo, i'm searching for good microscope for mobilephones repair with high magnification at 20cm distance and clear image, hdmi 1080p 60fps.Now i'm using supereyes b008, but i want higher magnification at higher distance with fast hdmi transfer.ThanksLino Falco

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 12:50:24 pm
content: AmScope SM-4TZ-144A. Can be purchased from Amazon.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 12:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: tec5c on July 16, 2017, 12:50:24 pm+1; X90 + 0.5Except AmScope Camera

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 01:48:07 pm
content: Quote from: Armadillo on July 16, 2017, 12:58:11 pmI've never used any AmScope camera's however you're not the first person to give them a bad rep. Go for an OptixCam

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 03:07:48 pm
content: The best heavily duty multi scope arm everRecommended add on [because of my extremes]

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 03:09:17 pm
content: Thanks for suggestions,i prefer the smallest as possible, lens c-mount with camera is not a good choise?i not watch in microscope, only at monitorWich c-mount len give higher magnification at 20cm distance?

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 03:32:03 pm
content: Quote from: LEENO on July 16, 2017, 03:09:17 pmYou want to repair handphone? You need to be able to visualize the depth to aid in micro-soldering and real-time hand eye coordination. You will be the odd ball champion if you can use anything other thing than stereo microscope unless of course if you can afford a mantis [for mantis check eevblog].Watch industry player example Louis RossmannWatch player example JasonSorry IMHO, your bench is not complete if you don't own a proper microscope.!

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 08:49:26 pm
content: AmScope microscopes are great for the price, but as already stated - stay far away from their cameras. I have an MU503 (USB3 based 5MP) and it sucks balls. It requires you to have light as bright as the sun or turn up the gain resulting in a really noisy image.I'm going to upgrade the camera in a not too distant future and I'm tempted to get the Auto Focusing camera AmScope sells. It has HDMI output and is supposed to do 60FPS in 1080p which is just what I need. If anyone happens to own that puppy, I would love to see some raw capture from the camera...

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 09:28:34 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on July 16, 2017, 08:49:26 pmYeah!, after so much pain and suffering with their camera, I think they should offer free trial with their new camera, don't you think? Or member good discount.

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 09:42:53 pm
content: What do you think if i use this len replacing camera with sony hdmi camera 1080p 60fps?https://youtu.be/7sDPKeNVW-8Or thishttps://youtu.be/Zbr_sys5Jkk

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:39:17 pm
content: Depending on what you want to do.if you aspire to repair handphones and go into micro-soldering, you need to be telling the depth, hence the lens must be at least apart, as far as I know.Ask yourself if your present system can assure you of where your soldering head is.?Real-time means during micro-surgery, there is *ZERO* time lag for good hand eye coordination. You need to repair micros to appreciate this absolute necessity.At least you must peek through the stereo microscope to appreciate the difference and differentiate it and then you can decide for yourself.If you see Dave and the market players, you will see them can't do without it [though some sponsor speech may be necessary]And when you bought one, you will buy two after.BTW: The sellers of those usb or hdmi microscope won't be telling you all these. And static images sure look great, try to move your hands under it.

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2017, 10:49:59 pm
content: With sony camera i will have zero time lag. Lens of videos i posted may be good?Since now i done microsolders with supereyes b008.i attach photos of some my works with supereyes b008, its very slow

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2017, 11:04:46 pm
content: I have experience with zero lag video-microscopes. They are pretty good. If you have your bench already setup for it, I don't see huge downside. Depth of perception is overrated. If your soldering head is too high, it will be out of focus, anyway. It's the lag that is more important to me, and with the right camera, the lag is potentially imperceptible. They are easier to setup for recording video and taking pictures, as well. Looking away at the monitor might be awkward, but you can set up your bench to make it ergonomic.I use Amscope, personally. But I wouldn't mind having both.As far as the lens, I can offer the specs of a the prototypical Amscope for electronics repair. IMO, it has 3-22.5X zoom and about 6" distance between the Barlow and the circuit board. (8" focal distance, but part of that is taken up by the barlow lens and lighting ring).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 01:28:06 am
content: What is a good example of an entry level stereo zoom microscope?It turns out that Amscope is a Chinese company, BTW. They are based in Ningbo, which is a bit south of Shanghai. Amscope may sell the products of a bunch of different Ningbo companies.They make solid microscopes.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 01:46:26 am
content: I haven't heard any complaints about the head/optics of the Amscope for the cost. There are some quibbles with the stand. The 20mm steel rods are supposed to be plated in chrome in order to fit properly in the bearings and to handle the pressure. But they are not. This omission leads to some galling of the rod by the ball bearings. Of course, if you have an entry level version without the boom arm, this wouldn't affect you.I've got the boom arm, and I managed to limit the problem with careful attention to the orientation of the ball bearings. I don't know that I'll ever need anything better, but I'm still looking for the right camera.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 05:24:00 am
content: FWIW, I've anAmScope SM-4TPZ-FRL-5MI bought at the tail-end of February (23rd). Sadly, I've not used it yet (still in the box).

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 08:06:08 am
content: I'm tempted to get myself one of these:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1080p-HDMI-USB-SD-digital-microscope-camera-with-SONY-sensor/32464609452.htmlThe seller has been mentioned on YouTube a couple of times by happy customers. I know buying from China is taking a chance, but I'm willing to deal with that this time.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 08:41:44 am
content: Quote from: agehall on July 18, 2017, 08:06:08 am

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 08:48:19 am
content: I have a AmScope SM-4TZ-144A for sale like new, looking for 450€, it's in the EU. I have a CANON SLR Adapter for it, best way to solve the AmScope camera problem.PM me if interested.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 09:00:24 am
content: I am experimenting with making my own using this camera module:https://www.e-consystems.com/4k-usb-camera.aspI can post some example pictures later but it gives you 1080p60fps with pretty much no lag. Or it can give you a giant 13 megapixel image at 20fps.

author: hs3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 09:18:48 am
content: Quote from: agehall on July 18, 2017, 08:06:08 amThese seem to be ToupTek cameras so not just some random Aliexpress special.http://www.touptek.com/With ToupTek name you can probably find other resellers too but the Aliexpress sellers are probably the lowest cost sources.I have one of the XCAM1080PHA models and it's surprisingly big and heavy unit which I guess is usually good in this kind thing unless small size and weight are important.For someone considering the AmScope microscopes outside of US the Aliexpress sellers offering similar looking products may be a significantly cheaper option after shipping cost is considered. There seems to be sellers like fyscope, lucky zoom and others offering 3.5X-90X simul focal trinocular stereo microscope head sets for not much more than the basic model. The sellers then have different kind boom or articulating arm and light options that can be selected from. These look very similar to what Amscope offers but especially considering shipping the price can end up being much less.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 11:09:20 am
content: The big advantage of dealing with AmScope instead of AliExpress sellers, is that if something doesn't work, you have an american company to deal with as opposed to a chineese seller that may or may not care about your issues. And just imagine the return shipping cost of a scope if you have to send it back for some reason...With a camera, I can deal with shipping if needed.hs3 - if you own one, would you mind giving us a bit of feedback on the noise floor of the image? I currently own the camera AmScope sells as MU503 and the image quality that comes out of it is horrible. One needs to turn up the gain to get a decent image at a decent frame rate and when you do that, the image becomes crap as there is just soooooo much noise. I feel horrible for my stream viewers having to watch that crap.

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 11:11:49 am
content: please show video if possible, thanks

author: hs3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 12:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on July 18, 2017, 11:09:20 amThat is of course true that you might get better support from AmScope in case of a problem. Though the impression I got from internet comments about Amscope was that they may be more of a box shifter type operation too. But when the "3.5X-90X Simul-Focal Trinocular Zoom Stereo Microscope Head WF10X/20 SZM2.0X SZM0.5X SZM45TR" head set direct from China was $225 including shipping it seemed worth the risk. Shipping alone for Amscope can cost as much. This is all the optical parts but doesn't include the boom / arm.QuoteI have not compared to other cameras but it seemed quite acceptable to me.Optixcam seems to be same ToupTek camera re-branded and if you search on youtube for "optixcam" you should find some videos.https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=OPTIXCAMIn this video for example looks like it has the same mouse driven control panel:How do those compare to the MU503 image?

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 02:41:49 pm
content: Quote from: hs3 on July 18, 2017, 12:17:55 pmLike night and day. I'll capture some video later today and post it.

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 04:20:02 pm
content: Wath do you think about this camera? Seller say it can have competition with sony cmoshttps://eocmicroscope.en.alibaba.com/product/60658591523-804856991/1080p_HDMI_microscope_industrial_camera_Resolution.html?spm=a2700.8304367.0.0.766ba9c30z3IYI

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 04:46:38 pm
content: Quote from: LEENO on July 18, 2017, 04:20:02 pmImpossible to tell from still images and sellers advertisements - you need to see live video.Speaking of which - here is a short video of what comes out of my MU503. It doesn't fully show the problem - it looks way better on YouTube than on my screen - I might have to re-record this at 1080p instead. But for now, just jump to 3:10 to see the issue up close.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 05:09:46 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on July 18, 2017, 04:46:38 pmRegarding the picture being dark, perhaps you could experiment with brightness/gain/etc settings in the software? If it is seen by the computer as a webcam, virtual dub should offer some of the settings in capture mode. Might help to see some things better.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2017, 10:17:58 pm
content: I'm very happy with my Omano OM99 from microscope.com. I bought the double ball bearing boom stand - which is great. The clarity across the field of view is excellent. It would be hard to imagine a much better image. The only thing I don't like is the looseness of the eyepiece width adjustment. But that's fairly simple to resolve.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 06:07:32 am
content: Quote from: kalel on July 18, 2017, 05:09:46 pmAnd get even more noise? No thanks.The correct solution is to toss this piece of crap in the garbage bin and buy something with a decent sensor.Quote from: kalel on July 18, 2017, 05:09:46 pmIt is not. It has it's own drivers and requires special software. You can set all the parameters in the software, but the only thing that works without having to tinker with the image all the time, is to increase gain and that is not a solution if you ask me.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 11:19:59 pm
content: Here is a sample photo from the microscope at full 13 MP resolution, Tho it is compressed down in a JPEG to make it small enough to upload(Raw bitmap is 38MB) The camera can spit these out at 20fps. That framerate is too low to be used as a microscope but it could be very useful for machine vision. Turning the resolution down to 4K UHD gives 30fps so it becomes usable as a microscope if you have a 4K monitor to take advantage of it.Its from a e-con Systems See3CAM_CU135 camera module with a cheep chinese C mount microscope lens on it. The crappy optics make the image a bit fuzzyer than it should be.The chip in the image is 0.5mm pitch and has 0402 passives around it so pretty small stuff, tho not quite smartphone small.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2017, 11:32:17 pm
content: And here is a neat use for a high end scope.I used a board that has a LED on it blinking at about 1Hz. One channel of the scope is attached to the pin of the LED while the other channel is connected to a phototransistor that is looking at the monitor that is displaying the live image from the camera that is looking at the same LED.So letting this run for a while i created a histogram of frame latency. The mean appears to be 62ms and that works out to about 3.7 frames at 60fps with about 1 frame of variance around it, most of that would be due to the LED not being synchronized with the frame rate. There are a few outliers where Windows probably decided that it has something better to do than to show my video feed. So there is still some room for improvement, likely some double buffering happening somewhere still, but whats important is that the latency is very consistent and there are no dropped frames at all. This quick consistency makes it feel very smooth and you have to be really paying attention to notice those 60ms of lag.Here is also a video of the cameras live view. Tho it appears there are some skipped frames here or there in the video recording that are not in the real live feed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueMfynmQi-Q&feature=youtu.be

author: LEENO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 10:24:21 am
content: What do you think about this camera hdmi 1080p 60fps?https://mega.nz/#!TJoimbhT!JdFn0L5ehDdZADkojOyo0O7THimWsWzaXUYGyd2L5Hc

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2017, 01:17:56 am
content: Are you doing this for paid repair work? I keep thinking of doing this after watching Rossmann's videos, only I live in the SF Bay Area, in a way the center of Appleland...and I am not too confident people are willing to pay. It seems whenever something goes wrong everyone around here just go out and buy the newest model and then brag about it.I have also thought of using ebay and finding "bricked by icloud phones. There are several devices that can quickly flash and re-install the IMEI numbers that makes them again usable. That is another $350. I am not sure I could re-coup the cost all-in-all.So, please if you are making money on this, please give some background.Thanks,

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2017, 09:39:46 pm
content: Quote from: LEENO on July 20, 2017, 10:24:21 amYou can't really tell from that video either - it honestly looks like crap, but it's probably mostly because it is a cellphone capture of a monitor and not the actual image directly captured from the cam.Quote from: TheNewLab on July 23, 2017, 01:17:56 amI'm not doing this for money - electronics is a hobby for me. That said, I have a day-job that pays the bills and then some so I can afford to buy nice toys and I've learned the hard way that having crap tools is just as bad (or sometimes worse than) having no tools.Quote from: TheNewLab on July 23, 2017, 01:17:56 amI'm not sure buying used devices from e-bay is the best way to learn. Especially not cellphones and tables as they contain a ton of tiny components that are sensitive and you need experience to fix those.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 02:19:11 am
content: I just wanted to say that Amscope is a trademark of a Chinese company, United Scope (Ningbo) Co., Ltd.Ningbo is a bit south of Shanghai.Seems like a lot of optical instruments are manufactured there.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 06:28:08 am
content: FYI: Chris Long has gotten the AmScope AF100 camera now and is using that for his YouTube streams. It looks pretty darn awesome tbh.

author: Armadillo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 07:49:34 am
content: Quote from: agehall on July 26, 2017, 06:28:08 amHe first thing you see him in the video, he is eating..... LOL...

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:35:34 pm
content: We recently had to replace some equipment due to a corporate split. Comint to the missing microscope, I invited both Vision Engineering with the Lynx EVO and the Mantis Elite and Leica with a conventional stereo microscope fitted with a larger adjustment range and a variable telescopic arm. The Mantis didn't cut it, I personally thought the Lynx was pretty cool, but I deferred to the opinion of my technician, who has to use it most: we got the Leitz Stemi.

author: hs3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 07:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on July 26, 2017, 06:28:08 amIn the video that I linked to earlier I understood that the other camera that was compared to and which wasn't commented very favorably was the AF100.https://youtu.be/FTrVJX0byzQ

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: hs3 on July 30, 2017, 07:33:49 pmAmScope usually lists the sensor used, but in the case of theAF100, it just says CMOS.Makes me wonder if publishing it would have a negative impact on their sales volume.It seems that the Sony IMX236 sensor is the way to go ATM vs. the Panasonic or Aptima, but it's still USB 2.0 and no auto-focus. Still, 30fps would be sufficient for video over it's USB port or SD card. The best price I'm seeing for this particular camera is ~$325 shipped on AliExpress (RisingTech 1080P Sony Sensor).Better yet, get a PCIe x1 HDMI 1080P capture card to record 60fps video (i.e.Elgato HD60 Pro, which goes for ~$186).Combined, the pair come to ~$511 shipped, which is only ~$50 more than the AF100. Better frame rate recording at the cost of auto-focus and better image quality. Worth it IMHO.Edit: Fixed sensor P/N.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 05:52:49 am
content: You mean Sony IMX236, right? Anyhow, that camera from Rising Tech is what I'm leaning towards. I have extra HDMI-capture cards laying around on the bench, so they would work really well for me I guess.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 12:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on July 31, 2017, 05:52:49 amOops.Thanks for spotting that; it's fixed now.

author: amanda1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 02:11:51 pm
content: take a look at this microscopehttps://www.amazon.com/Andonstar-Digital-Microscope-Soldering-ADSM302/dp/B076XYRCYM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1519219823&sr=8-4&keywords=microscopes+for+soldering+boards

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2018, 04:06:16 pm
content: Quote from: amanda1 on February 21, 2018, 02:11:51 pmI prefer depth perception, so will stick with stereo optics when working under them (uses 2x objective lenses).

author: xxx2fan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 11:11:21 pm
content: I got this microscope PC USB and project it on a 32 inch tv, so far I'm very happy with it. took about 3 weeks to come and setup was easy. Had it about a vear now. I did motify the stand to give more height when working on projects that are higher on bench so I can get good pics like when working on scope etc. which is higher on my bench Link belowhttps://www.diyinhk.com/shop/usb-microscope-1080p-for-smt-soldering/48-1080p-smt-microscope.html