Aggressive Responses Considered Harmful - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 07:38:53 pm
content: From a discussion about the goto sentence that has had aggressive responses in a thread about converting assembler to C, and from the defense that has been made of having that attitude to illogical or pseudo-religious ideas in technology, I thought it was relevant to make a defense of respectful behavior with others in the forum.There are several reasons or points of view that should be taken into account:1. Open communication. If we want the forum to have open communication and dialogue, encouraging aggressive behavior based on judgment without process can lead to very undemocratic “lynchings”, which encourage much more silence than dialogue. Who decides what is illogical and who applies force? If this is not well regulated, excesses are assured and the general climate suffers. It is not the moderators who behave like this.2. Lack of direct communication. An important part of the communication is lost because it is written. This is a basic principle of forums and should be taken into account to try to avoid misunderstandings as much as possible.3. Lack of scientific demonstration. As much as we like to think that we are discussing demonstrable truths, the technical reality is quite different. There are no scientific papers that demonstrate the greater reliability of the moderate and controlled use of goto versus not using it. Just as there is no demonstration that using spaces is better than using tabs to indent code. All these discussions sometimes end up in “flame wars” among other reasons because they are unprovable. Even if there is a scientific demonstration of the superiority of a technical option, this would be buried among many other technical and personal reasons that are also important for a technician to decide to use another option different from the recommended one.4. Right to express your opinion. Basic in democracy. What more can be said. When we insist on trying to convince at all costs, there comes a time when we lose our reason. If someone with his particular reasons is convinced of his point of view, we can expose the motives for which we defend and prefer our own. The frustration of not being able to convince the other should not lead us to lose our reason.5. Non-technical and personal opinions. In many cases a person may argue that he prefers a particular technology because he finds it more convenient or simpler or more powerful or whatever. This is a personal opinion and not an absolute technical opinion. It is completely true because it is a simple opinion that fits the personal or professional circumstances of that person. Another person with different circumstances may argue the opposite and both would be correct. There is no argument if this is understood.The clearest example is in the joke of two people looking from different sides at a 6 (or a 9) and each defending that they see a different number. They are both right!6. Trolls. I think this is an unrepresentative case of what happens in this forum, but it can happen. If a troll tries to use illogical arguments and the response is to try to “burn him with fire”, you are going against the proven principle of “don't feed the troll” to prevent him from succeeding in inflaming a conversation.In short, aggressive responses or responses that involve a personal attack are not justifiable, much less insults.It takes a lot of effort for some to behave that way, but the whole forum wins if we all commit to upholding respectful behavior towards each other.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 07:52:07 pm
content: At first, I thought this might be another thread about tariffs and/or the current American President. What a relief, it is not.I haven't kept up on the ASM2C thing, but I agree with your principles. Many years ago and somewhere else, I presented code to clear the stack or at least allow a goto/branch without return from an interrupt (PIC MPASM). Talk about a Chicken Little response. It's crazy, don't do it, all hell will break loose without a single rationale.I don't do that very often (twice), but in my current project I do, and everytime I look at my code, I am reminded of those warnings. BTW, my code is working fine.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 09:12:43 pm
content: I didn't make it past the first sentence as the topic seems about software.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 09:21:00 pm
content: The topic is not about software, but about how people sometimes respond too aggressively to technical disagreements.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 09:46:23 pm
content: Ok. Quick glance, seemed like just another etiquette post. Do you really feel such posts have an effect on human behavior? Site seems civil enough to me.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 10:08:00 pm
content: I tend to see aggressive comments the same way as if a ram tried to kick you - I mean, seriously, you wouldn’t start kicking the ram back, would you?As for those who using aggression and trying shut up others to push their views, I often get the feeling they might not even be real people, but rather some kind of fake accounts run by AI, designed specifically to shape public opinion in a desired direction.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2025, 11:43:08 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 06, 2025, 07:38:53 pm“Affirming the consequent” and “denying the antecedent” were well known logical fallacies, amongst others, dating back to Ancient Greek discourse.Bertrand Russell and Ludwig Wittgenstein later codified it into the math we know today.Incidentally, democracy also originated from the Ancient Greeks, so there’s a relationship between logical debate and democracy.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 06:21:30 am
content: I mostly agree with your engineered-to-be-agreeable post, but still, partially disagree, especially because "aggression" is not any sort of root problem here. Instead, it is asymptom, and it is more fruitful to analyze the situation as a whole.Extremely harmful people deserve aggressive replies (this is an opinion; just like your opposite opinion is), pointing out to others that trying to interact with them is useless. Luckily, such extreme "lost causes" are very rare on a forum like this; only two names pop into my mind currently, the two to whose bullshit I keep responding to by "as always, ignore X". Approx once a year, I try to interact with them, to test out if they are any different; the result is always the same.We all are sometimes wrong and sometimes not very capable of engineering-minded discussions. However, it takes something special to turn this to the "clearly wrong more than 50% of the time and proud of it" level. I mean someone like radiolistener, who isalmost neverright aboutanything, and has a history ofnever everaccepting the fact that theycouldbe wrong onsomething. I mean, I have never seen radiolistener or jonpaul have adiscussionabout anything, with anyone. They just come and state their facts. Which are incorrect or misleading >90% the time - exactly because theyneverlet anyone question any of it.It's an interesting equation. I mean, I see people who are mostly correct often saying "I stand corrected, thank you". Now if you are wrong all the time, opportunities to say that, and grow as a person and an engineer, are plentiful, but if the opportunities are always ignored, nothing will happen. It's the same broken record for years, possibly decades.What I consider harmful is intentional, malicious spewing of bullshit without any intention to ever fix any of those claims, or even discuss about it, going on for years, from thread to thread, regardless of the subject, possibly for thousands of posts. That is very toxic, and some aggressive backlash is to be expected.Trolls like radiolistener utilize this aggressive backlash. So-called useful idiots* (see Picuino) jump in and start to defend their bullshit only because they see them as victims of "aggression". In reality, people like radiolistener use so calledpassive aggression24/7 in order to ruin the SNR of a forum like this, and are very happy to victimize themselves if it gives them yet more competitive edge.*) not actual idiots, see the history of term; meaning a person whose good will is being exploitedAnd of course, LLM's have made their work much easier. They don't have to write their lengthy hallucinations themselves anymore. radiolistener can simply write a prompt with a few incorrect key points and ChatGPT takes on and does bulk of the job.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 08:06:25 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 06, 2025, 09:46:23 pmMuch of it still is, but there's certain topics that seem to degenerate rather quickly

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 09:50:36 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:21:30 amThat is the key point, from which much of the snipped content follows.This can also be true in real life. We've all come across pests (various contexts and types) who won't accept "no" for an answer. Sometimes they cannot reasonably be ignored, and so the response needs to be ratcheted up until they do desist.There are also completely antisocial misfits; they can be (and are) rapidly excluded from the forum, but that is not so easy in real life.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 12:48:31 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:21:30 amYour approach, while it may seem like a clever tactic to you, actually reflects a typical pattern of dismissive behavior often associated with trolling. By repeatedly ignoring someone and occasionally "testing" them with the expectation of confirming your own bias, you’re not engaging in genuine dialogue - you’re reinforcing a preconceived narrative. This creates a closed loop that blocks constructive exchange and promotes provocation rather than understanding. Ask yourself: what meaningful outcome do you truly expect from such behavior? If you consistently assume the result will be negative, you ensure it will be. Productive discussion requires openness, not predetermined dismissal.Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:21:30 amYou are misinterpreting constructive disagreement as "passive aggression." Maintaining a calm and reasoned tone in response to provocations and insulting is not a tactic of manipulation, but a conscious choice to preserve the quality of the discussion and avoid escalating conflicts. Accusing someone of "ruining the SNR" while actively engaging in personal attacks and dismissive labeling is counterproductive. If you truly value the integrity of the forum, I encourage you to focus on the substance of the arguments rather than projecting intent onto the manner in which they are presented. Constructive dialogue thrives on mutual respect, not assumptions of bad faith.It’s very easy to fall into the trap of underestimating your counterpart, especially in online discussions where you have no clear view of the other person’s experience or depth of understanding. Someone you assume to be wrong might, in fact, have a much deeper grasp of the subject and may be trying to explain things that you simply do not yet understand. If you, instead of listening and thinking, resort to calling them a troll and throwing insults, you achieve nothing - except exposing your own ignorance and inability to maintain a respectful, intelligent conversation.Moreover, if you lack the necessary knowledge or experience in the topic, behaving this way is outright foolish. And even if you happen to be correct, and the other person is missing something, insulting them and sticking labels on them will never help you prove your point. A rational person would first try to understand why the other side holds their position, and if their explanation is unsatisfactory, counter it with solid arguments.Choosing instead to replace arguments with personal attacks and insulting (as suggested byNominal Animal) is a losing strategy. It makes you look either like a fool or a troll yourself, and no one with common sense will ever take insults as a valid technical argument. Expecting otherwise is delusional.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 01:28:26 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 12:48:31 pmOne of you two is in my "ignore list"; the other isn't.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 01:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:21:30 amI see you use war rhetoric. The “useful idiots” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot) were the defenders of communism in western areas, so called in a pejorative way by the capitalists during the cold war.You also present Trolls to be fought aggressively.I disagree. Neither this is a war, nor you have to fight anyone (that's what moderators are for).If someone really were a Troll, that inflammatory attitude would only serve to fuel the discussion further.The rules of most forums are clear in this regard. You have to respect others. Not their opinions, which may be wrong, but their right to be wrong.Another topic that has been discussed is the Pygmalion effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect) and Self-fulfilling prophecy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy).If you presuppose bad intentions from someone, you may be encouraging precisely a behavior that you do not want, but that you yourself are generating.The old adage “Do not feed the troll” can serve well for all those occasions when frustration (for whatever reason) will not let us continue to write in a reasonably respectful way.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 01:38:14 pm
content: I have example from this forum. There was a case when a user, asked questions about a piece of software that I had developed (though he didn’t know I was the author), began to accuse me of being clueless, calling me incompetent, and dismissing everything I wrote as nonsense - all while presenting himself as an experienced specialist in the field.To be fair at some point, I even started to believe that perhaps he really had deep expertise. However, as I continued reading his posts later, it became clear that he lacked even basic knowledge of the subject. Ironically, all of my initial assumptions about the hardware/software issues he was facing turned out to be correct, even though I myself wasn’t fully confident at the time and just proposed them as possible causes.When he eventually realized that I was the actual author of the software in question, his tone noticeably changed. But this raises an important question: what was the point of resorting to insults and theatrically portraying himself as an expert while ignoring reasonable and constructive suggestions? Such behavior is not only unproductive but also self-defeating.In total, resorting to insults and labeling is an unwise strategy, regardless of how confident you are in your own experience or correctness on a given issue. Any technical topic inevitably involves nuances that you may not even be aware of. Rather than attacking your counterpart, it is far more productive to ask clarifying questions and understand their reasoning. In doing so, you might discover perspectives that lead you to reconsider your own position - or, conversely, gain the opportunity to explain your point more clearly and help the other person recognize their mistake. In either case, respectful dialogue will always yield better results than hostility.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 02:22:52 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 01:28:26 pmGood decision.If you are feeling strong negative emotions, it’s actually the right decision to step away from the discussion and cool down. As the well-known saying goes, "If you are angry, you are wrong". Engaging in a discussion while being angry rarely leads to anything productive. In such cases, taking a pause is far wiser than continuing the conversation in an emotionally charged state.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 02:43:23 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 02:22:52 pmThat "well known saying" is just wrong - or maybe you think that if I'm angry because a drunk driver knocked down my daughter, then I'm wrong.It is entirely possible, and sometimes reasonable, to be aggressive without being angry.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 04:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 02:43:23 pmEmotions themselves do not define the objective correctness of a situation. In practice, following emotions tends to lead to poor decisions. Emotions are, by their nature, primal instincts - they served well in basic survival scenarios, but they are a poor guide in intellectual discourse. When you allow emotions to dictate your behavior, you rely on the same mechanisms that govern instinctive animal reactions, rather than rational human judgment. Maintaining a clear, reasoned approach places you above instinctual responses and leads to far more effective outcomes in any meaningful discussion.Therefore, if you feel aggression or anger rising, it should serve as a signal to stop, step back, take a break, and calm down. If certain topics consistently provoke such strong negative emotions, it might be wise to avoid discussing them altogether, as this could indicate that you have unresolved psychological trauma related to the subject. Engaging with such topics without addressing the underlying emotional triggers may only reinforce negative patterns and hinder productive discourse.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 04:50:35 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 02:43:23 pmAnd it's even more reasonable to be angry without being aggressive.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 05:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on April 07, 2025, 04:50:35 pmSometimes that doesn't cut it, e.g. someone who feels it is OK to touch up a woman, despite being asked to stop.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 06:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 07, 2025, 01:30:02 pmYeah. But forum rules actually do not prohibit trolling (oppositely, it says not to feed them; some sane advice).Then again, trolls come in many flavors and I use the term in general sense: purposely writing messages with the purpose of fueling useless discussions. With this definition, radiolistener is a 100% clear troll. Some trolls I genuinely kinda like, e.g. the Connecteur guy, his style of trolling (starting with some just a little bit weird premise and then message by message add more and more weird details finally kinda-sorta revealing (but not admitting!) it was all trolling) is very original and fresh. Some others, e.g. the now-banned Postal2 guy, could be kinda fun to play with but unfortunately very damaging, due to him purposely targeting beginners and those in need of help with false but convincing information.If you look at how I for example usually reply to radiolistener's bullshit, I do that exactly in a way that avoids feeding the troll. The method is minimized submersion into the (otherwise endless) "discussion", and rapid escalation of the underlying fact that the discussion is futile - which will be the end resultanyway. So the "discussion" is escalated directly into the end within one message instead of 10 pages which we have seen on radiolistener topics numerous times (trying to redefine sampling theorem terminology; "gateware", etc...) . I have elaborated on this conscious strategy before, seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/supporters-lounge/help-from-neutral-members-where-i-went-wrong/msg5636395/#msg5636395. Nothing has changed since then.Although, to be fair, this time I fed the troll a tiny little bit too much (a message or two), but it is worth testing to see what happens, maybe once a year. Endless AI-generated crap ensued, just like before. Really the only reason why I replied to the actual points was this goto discussion was not radiolistener original content, similar points have been seen before by others so it felt worth replying to.I very much agree with your "don't feed the troll" sentiment and consider myself quite OK-ish at following that, although some others are better; the simplest way to achieve this is of course to use the ignore feature like I know many others do (and then resist the temptation of clicking "show message anyway" button, something tggzzz can't manage to do), but my ignore list would be so short that why bother.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 06:16:27 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:03:05 pmI sometimes wonder about RJSV, although his posts seem to be more about attention-seeking and validation ("Look how charmingly eccentric I am - please indulge me.")

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 06:34:27 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 07, 2025, 01:30:02 pmYou couldn't be more wrong.Trolling, by definition, is game. It is sports. You can call sports a civilized version of war, of course, but the difference is fundamental.I don't think I have ever asked anyone to be banned (forum equivalent of killing), except obvious spambots of course. To some others on this forum, trying to get others banned -destroying them- seems to be recreational pastime - see e.g. case treez. That is war rhetoric. Stalking around and provoking them in every thread they create, is a war tactic. And I hate that.Calling trolls out as trolls, and their bullshit as bullshit, while respecting their right to exist on the forum, is sports, on the other hand. The sports where the trolls committed to, with their own choice of trolling.And you, my friend, should maybe listen to the forum rule #4:Code:4) Don't take things too seriously, chill out, life is short, have a laugh.I respect you and radiolistener and your existence of both as human beings, and on this forum. That does not prevent me pointing out that bullshit is bullshit, and radiolistener's bullshit should be just ignored instead of feeding him.QuoteMy track record is excellent here*. My posts to radiolistener have stopped potential 20-page long flame wars many times. Of course I can't be sure if they would have escalated into such without, but let me still be proud about that for a moment.*) in my own opinion of courseI count this one a partial success as well. The goto crap "discussion" stopped quite quickly after my comments. Now all I hope the thread gets back to the track and useful for the OP. And if you are willing to discuss about goto, you will find plenty of opportunities to do that without radiolistener.QuoteSure, but that's very abstract. What is respect? Apparently immersing oneself into endless flamewars e.g. over basic terminology ("firmware" vs "gateware" or similar crap), replying to others while ignoringevery pointthey said and talking monologies that are designed to trigger others into replying more, then again ignoring every opposing point made, and repeating the same bullcrap to keep the infinite cycle going - apparently this is "respectful" as long as certainoffending words, like "bullshit" or "idiot" are avoided. Yet in reality, people like radiolistener have zero respect to anyone else; they are superior, they are gods who e.g. choose what terminology others have to use. They avoid a few magic words but act like total jerks while keeping perfectly calm. It's a sort ofpassive aggression, and it's very effective social trick, especially in politics.And that is not respectful.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 07:22:00 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 07, 2025, 01:30:02 pmDepends on what you mean by "respect". Respect has to beearned; it doesn't come for free.The "right to be wrong" has limits. Too often statements are made that could cause an inexperienced person to be killed or, word, injured. And, after the dangers being pointed out, those statements are repeated with added false reasoning. Under such circumstances "respect" is completely wrongheaded.Yes, that occurs in this forum.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 08:10:27 pm
content: I have been reading the definition of troll, which can become quite ambiguous. I'm going to read more on the subject before forming an opinion.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 08:29:05 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 07, 2025, 08:10:27 pmThe "original" usenet meaning is give here:https://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/troll.htmlNote that a good troll - and they do exist and can be useful - requires subtlety and wit and knowledge, and a knowing audience.Some lazy journalists wanting to look kewl have often used it to mean "bullying on a web forum". Instead of ignorantly perverting useful and subtle words, they should just use existing perfectly adequate words.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 10:18:02 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:03:05 pmAccording to the definition of "trolling", e.g.,Cambridge Dictionary:Quoteit is aboutposting insulting messageswith the intent to provoke someone. There is nothing in the definition about "fueling useless discussions".If you personally consider a discussion to be meaningless, you are always free to simply ignore it - there is no need to assume that, just because it holds no interest for you, it must be equally irrelevant to everyone else. The very fact that the discussion has arisen indicates that it is of interest to some participants. So if it does not interest you - just move along. What is the problem? Moreover, your lack of interest in a topic has absolutely nothing to do with trolling.What you are doing now - repeatedly attempting to insult me by labeling me a troll - is in fact a textbook example of trolling itself.The same applies to userNominal Animal, who justified insulting those with differing opinions, which is essentially an open call for trolling.As you can observe, in their message, Nominal Animal dismisses references to company guidelines and the opinions of experienced individuals as "shit":Quote from: Nominal Animal on April 04, 2025, 07:58:16 pmand then proposes to use insults against those who use such references:Quote from: Nominal Animal on April 04, 2025, 07:58:16 pmThis is clear and unmistakable trolling. And the fact that you (Siwastaja) actively support his conduct, naturally raises certain questions about the possible connection between your accounts.I also have observed that, for some reason, users from the UK rather frequently exhibit patterns of trolling or adopt an unusually aggressive and unreasonable manner of communication. I wonder what might be the reason for this - the pattern is so consistent that it naturally raises the question of whether there is an underlying factor, is it possibly specific social circumstances in the UK that contribute to such behavior?PS: I am fully aware that, after exposing the trolls so directly, they will likely summon reinforcements to launch coordinated attacks against me (they usually do that). However, this does not concern me in the slightest, as I can easily ignore their provocations. And should their aggression escalate beyond acceptable limits, I can always involve the forum administration to address the issue appropriately.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 10:25:43 pm
content: Here is the thread if anyone is wondering:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/converting-assembly-to-c/Instead of asking the OP what their end goal is with respect to C code limitations, two regulars get into an argument over what is "best". When clearly there is no answer to that. No one comes out looking good here.Next time just state your opinion, preferably without saying people who do or do not discourage gotos as being idiots, and move on once OP replies with their preference.Quote from: Siwastaja on April 07, 2025, 06:03:05 pmPlay nice implies not trolling.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 10:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 10:18:02 pmClose, but no cigar.That is merelyonedefinition, a definition that seems to suit your purposes. There are other definitions. I've given one and it easy to find others.Most of the other definitions include the word "especially X" indicating that X just one example, and "provoking" which does not imply insulting.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 10:47:27 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 10:32:33 pmAs stated, the Cambridge Dictionary defines trolling as posting insulting messages to provoke someone. While other definitions exist, the core idea remains the same - the deliberate intent to provoke through insults. Trolling typically involves targeting individuals and using emotional manipulation.Therefore, when a discussion shifts from technical points to personal attacks, it marks the start of trolling.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 10:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 10:47:27 pmNope - as very clearly specified in other definitions such as the first paragraph ofhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(slang)By several of those definitions, your post constitutes trolling

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2025, 11:46:42 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 10:54:34 pmWhile Wikipedia can be a helpful starting point, it is not the most reliable source, especially on topics like trolling. Wikipedia is a platform that is edited by users, and many of these users may have vested interests, including those working for professional troll farms. With the ability to edit and influence content, these users can easily alter definitions to suit their own agendas. Moreover, according to some estimations, up to 80-90% of accounts on popular platforms are operated by bot farms or professional trolls hired to shape public opinion. On forums, however, the number of such professional trolls is lower, but they still exists and working together.Wikipedia itself defines trolling as the act of making personal attacks or insults, not just posting "useless messages," as you've suggested. Therefore, your interpretation seems to be inconsistent with the widely accepted understanding of trolling.I believe you may be referring to the fact that trolling doesn't always start with insults - and that's true. More subtle forms of trolling involve gradually provoking the user into saying something foolish, only to later highlight their ignorance and insult them for it. For example, trolling can start with seemingly innocent or foolish questions designed to make the person say something wrong, which is then used as a basis to attack their knowledge for insulting.The important point here is that the troll's ultimate goal is to insult the person, not to engage in technical discussions.There is no clear line in such cases - some subtle trolls manage to provoke insults without directly using offensive language, often by identifying someone's vulnerabilities and manipulating them. However, the same effect can often occur when someone has no intention of insulting anyone. These are borderline situations where trolling can be suspected, but there is no objective evidence to support the claim. Suspicion does not equate to fact, so it is important not to accuse someone based solely on assumptions.However, when a discussion clearly shifts from technical topics to a direct personal attacks and insults, it becomes clear trolling and is an unacceptable form of communication.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 12:45:46 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 07, 2025, 10:25:43 pmThe topic starter was offered solutions, and what remains is simply rewriting the code to avoid using goto. Of course, this will require time and effort, as it involves analyzing what the original code was doing. This is essentially the work that one is paid for. There are no magical solutions to transform spaghetti-code filled with goto and labels into structured, easily readable code. The process involves painstakingly reviewing what the original code was doing and refactoring it piece by piece. There are no other options for this.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 01:32:57 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 08, 2025, 12:45:46 amThey were specifically told to either USE goto or NOT USE goto, aggressively. At no point were they even asked if they had requirements or preferences around it.As stated by OP here, the infighting was a waste of time and turned them off the thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/converting-assembly-to-c/msg5871153/#msg5871153If you want to debate: create a new thread about the specific coding debate and take the discussion there.If you want to offer an option: present it and note its benefits.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 03:47:08 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 11:46:42 pmartbyrobot sticks out in my mind as a discussion that attempted to remain technical, but his constant refusal to accept advice, outed him as a trollbeforethe attacks and insults gained momentum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/mechanical-engineering/my-advanced-realistic-humanoid-robots-project-441835/msg5669833/#msg5669833

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 05:23:34 am
content: Quote from: Andy Chee on April 08, 2025, 03:47:08 amThe thread you linked is quite long, and I haven’t read it in its entirety. However, judging by the later posts, it looks more like an attempt at fraud - persistent promotion of a dubious project with the goal of collecting money, rather than trolling. While this behavior is certainly problematic, it is a different issue. Trolling typically involves deliberate personal attacks to trigger emotional responses, whereas here I don’t see such tactics. This looks like a scam. I don't see any trolling on that thread (at least at the end).You know, there are certain types of "projects" whose primary goal is simply to collect money by riding on hype. The authors often promote all sorts of implausible ideas, speak about advanced technologies, yet it becomes clear from their explanations that they themselves do not fully understand the subject. Despite that, they actively push their vague "project" and demand donations (which is actually the real goal). This thread gave me exactly that impression - doesn’t it seem like such a case to you?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:47:33 am
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 08, 2025, 05:23:34 amThere was no apparent fraud, merely a misguided individual, possible with mental problems. Comparisons were drawn with Terry Davis andhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOSHis initial posts were misguided in many ways, and the initial responses were polite and ignored. He continued more forcefully, and so subsequent responses becamegraduallymore assertive, but were still ignored.He simply would not listen, and continued to annoymostpeople, especially by wasting their time.Under such circumstances polite and rude responses were ignored - and eventually he was banned.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 02:06:49 pm
content: I think the term troll applied to a person is much harder to define than the term trolling, attitude.A person may not be a troll, but troll another on some occasion.The term trolling is also very broad and can range from a joke in which one person tries to kidding another, to hostile and aggressive attitudes to the extreme.I like the definition given to me by chatGPT:QuoteThe trolling attitude can be annoying and even poison normal forum interaction, so I understand that it is a major problem that should try to be minimized in any forum.The problem, and with that I would like to return to the topic of this thread, is how to respond to those attitudes that are annoying because the person does not respond as we expect from a normative iteration. If a non-moderating user considers other is trolling, can respond by trolling the troller, teasing and annoying the other, but where is the limit?Can one go so far as to respond with even greater aggressiveness than that demonstrated by the other?I think that such behavior breaks the rules of the forum and is harmful to the majority.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 06:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 07, 2025, 08:10:27 pmIt's also a matter of taste how you define it, it's not like a protected legal term like "attorney of law" or "doctor of medicine".Some use "troll" as generic insult against someone who just disagrees with them, which I don't like. I think it's pretty neutral term.Some use "troll" to mean people who purposely write opposite to what they think is the truth in order to trigger replies. In my opinion, this isn't a strict requirement. I also count people who deliberately A) refuse two-sided discussion, B) repeat points that theyknowwere challengedby everybodyandknowthat no one wants to hear their positions for 999th time again, trolls. Even if they believe they are right, and even if they legitimate are making the point.At some point, you have made your point clear. Repeating it ad nauseam with the only purpose of triggering irritation is, in my opinion, thus one form of trolling, one of the nastier ones.I like trolls who are funny, not (too) irritating.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 06:13:15 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 07, 2025, 10:32:33 pmYeah. IMO it's a surprisingly poor definition; I think something being insulting is totally orthogonal to something being trolling. Clearly Cambridge dictionary editors did their job hastily here without looking much into the history and culture of this word. Which, to be fair, is understandable if they are not "in" the internet culture.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 06:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 10:18:02 pmNominal Animal, did you hear that one? F**k, they finally found out that I'm your alter ego, that we are one. What do we do now?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 06:50:43 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 08, 2025, 06:13:15 pmAgreed, and IMHO they usually do better.It is, of course, theirjobto document internet culture terminology. This particular terminology isn't new, unless you regard the mid-late 80s as new!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 08:06:26 pm
content: Quote from: radiolistener on April 07, 2025, 10:18:02 pmThat's a bad definition of trolling. You can leave messages that are useful and doesn't bother 80% of the people because they are not part of a cult.You can be offensive and a good person at the same time.For the same reason: I would also argue that school bullying, when the bully picks on someone for an actual reason, is a net positive for society. It teaches children normal behaviors and punishes idiocy. We would have so much less blue haired lunatics today, if they would have gotten a good old fashioned ass whooping back in elementary school.It's also default and normal behavior to men to give hard time to each other. The only time I've ever seen guys be nice to each other is when they are talking about their family. 2 minutes later it's back to calling each others names and pranking each other.OP, your university is over. You have to get out of your safe space, and grow a thicker skin.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 08:20:46 pm
content: School bullying good?Not as I remember it.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 08:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 08, 2025, 08:20:46 pmYou mean you don't think "might is right" nor that the "tyranny of the majority" is merely asserting society norms?Maybe bullying made tszaboo what he is.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on April 08, 2025, 08:06:26 pmGoing to politely state, in sincerity for your own good, you should think things through before you form opinions.It's not unknown for young children to jump off bridges and end things because of school bullying. I grew up alongside a close friend whose little brother ended his life in precisely that way, onto train tracks, and others will have experienced similar things.I doubt you'd be able to say what you wrote, face-to-face, with anyone whose child or sibling did that.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:48:22 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 08, 2025, 06:08:21 pmIt is definitely not a neutral term, the goal of a troll is to get a rise out of people.QuoteExactlyQuoteExample? Either they were not a troll (whose very definition is irritation), or, the person being trolled at that time was not you.https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/59wx7r/i_just_realized_that_root_of_the_phrase_internet/https://cyberpsychology.eu/article/view/15360Quote

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 10:43:02 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on April 08, 2025, 08:06:26 pmWasn't it you who posted some years ago about being bullied at work, looking for consolation in here? Did you learn a thing or two about how to behave and received some appropriate spanking or was the other person at fault?Previous year a girl jumped from a building after being bullied at school. Maybe you want to have a conversation with her parents on how to raise children properly.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 10:54:29 pm
content: I have no idea why this thread is in "General Technical Chat".

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 11:12:20 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on April 08, 2025, 10:43:02 pmGood point, maybe its OK when bullying happens to someone else but not you, there was no spanking involved:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/how-to-deal-with-manipulative-coworker/But living in Netherlands with these kind of opinions would probably put you in the minority and at risk of being ostracized in the workplace:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/sunshine-coast-university-women-only-engineering-professorship/msg5856979/#msg5856979

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 05:49:11 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 08, 2025, 11:12:20 pmMinority? You might want to talk to people. Or see election results.And no I wasn't complaining about bullying because who I am. I was complaining because some backstabber lied about my professional work to management to get the promotion that was promised to me.Why are you derailing the conversation with personal stuff?Quote from: SteveThackery on April 08, 2025, 10:54:29 pmIt's a bunch of reddit mod type people complaining that speech is harmful.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 06:23:18 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on April 08, 2025, 08:20:46 pmIt's so complicated, not simply black and white. Even if we accept the simplification that it's never good, then the question becomes: who is the bully and who is the one being bullied? It sometimesseemsobvious but be very careful not to accidentally take the wrong side!I used to make the mistake of "taking sides" of those being bullied and "helping them out" by becoming their friends and defend them, and ended up taking sides with some very horrible psychopaths, e.g. one actual terrorist who was later in jail / mental institute later.Nearly all "normies" are surprisingly capable of acting very nasty to exclude someone from the group, but after a decade of thinking I came into conclusion that since this trait exists in large groups of diverse people, it has to be forgood reasons. It has to work right on average because otherwise we wouldn't be here.That biological trait can be manipulated, though. A dangerous psychopath can appear either:1) the leader of the bully group, manipulating large number of normies who believe that it's in common good to exclude the target, even if truly harmless.This is the classic image of bullying;but also, and this is what you are missing:2) the "weak bullied kid", manipulating the small number of those who "stand up for the bullied", like me; in that case I would be the useful idiot.By becoming overly sensitive to bullying, oversimplifying the issue and condemning it as a whole, we give a lot of room for those psychopaths to operate. And they are very capable of manipulation of people in good will, like you and me.Evidence is that most school shooters etc. were being bullied. And the obvious "explanation" that bullying somehow turned them that is so blatantly horribly incorrect from simple common sense that it isn't even funny. For example, apparently (based on all nice speech) bullying is super common everywhere all the time. Why only 0.001% turn into school shooters? No, it's the other way around, they were bullied and excluded from the groupbecause we have developed an instinct to detect psychopaths who are dangerous to our existence. They were dangerous very early on.So cases like school shootings happen because normies ("bullies") did not have means or courage to go far enough to really exclude the dangerous subject. In a more primitive culture, they would have driven out of the town with sticks, to be eaten by wolves.Curingthem by love and inclusion is beyond realistic capabilities for normies. Psychologically, that is the job of their mother, and if that failed due to whatever reason, chances of outsiders for fixing a dangerous psychopath is basically zero.Normies somehow get this right on average, even if it sometimes feels horrible to us. I mean, see how 97% of teachers and principals deal with cases of bullying: they say "please kids, you are both wrong, now behave", add some nice-speak "we don't have bullying at our school", walk away, and do absolutely nothing, and that feelshorribleto "victims", for obvious reasons, and it feels horrible for people like me who want justice. Yet, people like me are easiest to manipulate here.And still, what these principals do, while maybe motivated by laziness, isthe correct action on average. Those who try to act strongly, almost always end up doing that resource-constrained and so prone to manipulation that their odds for something as simple aspicking the right sidehasworsechances than tossing a coin; tossing coin would be 50%-50% and not prone to manipulation.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 06:35:10 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on April 08, 2025, 09:25:46 pm100% true, but that's a useless argument, though. There are numerous of situations where saying the truth is totally inappropriate because it causes so much pain. Yet, discussing the same thing in other context, e.g. with those who are not directly involved, it can be useful to take different viewpoints.Finally, in the long run, I also believe that questioning the simplified premise that e.g. a suicide was directly caused by bullying, should be questioned, even by the close ones. That is, after all, what they are likely doing in their heads anyway. The only way to find the inner peace and acceptance of what happened is to understand what happened; blaming certain individuals or certain actions is a war tactic, it's a simplification which is designed to keep you afloat for some time, but not indefinitely.But this should be dealt with in professional psychotherapy, something which us kitchen sink psychologists should absolutely avoid. This is exactly why we should never go to grieving parents who lost their kid to train tracks and say "hey ho mum, you failed at son-mother relationship and your son ended up being a social outcast, that's the reason he killed himself". Nevertheless,that might be the truth, and what's horrific,said mum might very well understand itand it's a huge burden that needs to be resolved, for forgiving themselves, their son, and the bullies. Blaming "the bullies" indefinitely is an easy, populist way to manage anger, but it's not very useful.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 06:35:23 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on April 08, 2025, 10:54:29 pmIt is in the same place as the forum rules.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 06:49:54 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 08, 2025, 08:34:39 pmQuote from: temperance on April 08, 2025, 10:43:02 pmQuote from: thm_w on April 08, 2025, 11:12:20 pmYou guys realize this is exactly what this common bullying looks like? You are behaving exactly like the "normies" I mention. You are behaving exactly like those numerous "outer members" of a bully ring behaved when the girl jumped from the roof. You even do the hard work of digging up old messages. It's the job of the higher-ups in the bully ring to then utilize the results of your work against the bullied one, and you get social acceptance as a return. In this case of course, there is no ring leader or really serious bullying going on, so it's not a big deal, it's not like tszaboo is really being driven to suicide by you guys. But it's still interesting to see this dynamic pop up in a limited fashion so quickly, even when the context is so strongly against bullyingin whole completeness, yet what you intuitively do is instantly apply it just like it's applied in real world.You would be exactly ones of those who could not say anything at the face of the grieving parents and siblings, because you know you were a small part of the system.I feel kinda bad for tszaboo now and intuitively want to take his side, against you guys. Isn't it interesting? But I won't do that. Maybe tszaboo is a really nasty person. Or maybe he's totally harmless, and nice person in the real world. I don't know, and I try not to care; it isn't important. And it takes more than this to become serious or dangerous bullying; tszaboo is probably following his own advice and applying thicker skin.In any case, I really like to have tszaboo here. Just don't treat him as definite source of Truths, but he sure does raise some good points that almost always have some grain of truth. He ignores me and doesn't like me, but I have no reasons to ignore him; I hate echo chambers and tszaboo is one of the best echo chamber destructors on this forum.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:27:56 am
content: Quote from: Picuino on April 09, 2025, 06:35:23 amRule 5: "This is an electronics forum, so try to stay on-topic. We understand that threads drift off-topic, but try not to start deliberately and grossly off-topic stuff."I was actually wondering if there was a better forum in EEVblog's domain, but there doesn't seem to be. I withdraw my comment.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 08:59:33 am
content: Didn't read the thread, but I've spotted the wordtroll, which reminded me of this:Troll Hunter Full Movie English SubtitlesSir. HollowatLess known movie, but an entertaining one. Have fun!Never try to reason with trolls, or with an indoctrinated.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:57:30 am
content: QuoteThe idea that someone can justify bullying by compartmentalizing the suffering of others as something beneficial/corrective for society is worrisome. The remainder of your statement concerning "default and normal behavior to men" has nothing to do with bullying.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:34:38 am
content: Quote from: temperance on April 09, 2025, 10:57:30 amQuite the contrary. If you look at these as trends, with the widespread helicopter parenting, and the overprotectiveness it's clear that removing conflicts made children less happy over the years/decades. They also don't learn crucial social skills like conflict resolutions and mediation. There is a right time to learn these skills because mental development slows down.The same way you would separate 4 year olds fighting (because they don't have the right social skills), or adults (because it's very dangerous and they should already know better), you should let elementary and middle school children dosomeinfighting. Externally cutting out all conflicts leads to dysfunctional adults.It would also teach them that not everything will be tolerated by society. And places these boundaries in the open instead of just shoving it down. The boundaries are still there, and they are still disliked, but they are completely oblivious to it.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:44:29 am
content: Correlation is not causation. I really hope you are never in charge of any children.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:49:54 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on April 09, 2025, 11:34:38 amThis seems so rational, balanced, moderate ("some", "cutting outall"), and common sense viewpoint that I find alarming it sees so much backlash.These human traits are going to exist anyway, we just can't weed them out. Having an open and honest discussion about it would seem like a good idea. But what we usually see is this low effort populist "bullying bad, now I said it and I'm out of here".Real bullies, on the other hand, are narcissists; they areverycapable of working within the external limits.Quote from: AVGresponding on April 09, 2025, 11:44:29 amAnd here's one more obvious bully to the above list. I'm surprised people are fine with this kind of personal attacks. I would, for example, never say this to radiolistener. I might call him an idiot, because that's what his "contributions" to discussions look like, but I would never question his capability of doing normal human being things, like being a father for example.How do you think that feels if tszaboo really is in charge of children? Maybe he even has children? Probably not very bad since this is just one random bully on the internets, but still; quite horrible!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:57:28 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on April 09, 2025, 11:44:29 amI find it funny how the people that are against the "aggressive responses" and "harmful language" can write the most awful and vile responses.It's like a mask falling off. "He is not one of us, everything goes".Go ahead and look in the mirror.

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 12:06:12 pm
content: In that case you must define bullying because that what you are talking about is probably not bullying but disagreement. Bullying is inflicting harm upon others as means to gain power over others with sometimes dramatic end results such as people taking their own lives. I don't think this can be seen as a corrective measure.How many people in your school were the victim of bullies because they had thick glasses or other problems such as stuttering? I know quite a few of them and if you look at those people today, they are the ones who took care of their future while some of the bullies are all ready dead (Two of them became alcoholics and an other one snorts various substances.) or they are unemployed doing absolutely nothing.By your logic the bullies should now be bullied as a means to correct their behavior.

author: Tation
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 01:35:10 pm
content: Metasocial threads considered boring.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 02:57:01 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 09, 2025, 06:23:18 amThat was too long an attempt at justification for school bullying to want to read.When tszaboo or anyone writes unhealthy or abnormally wacky thoughts, it's always in part a judgment call how strongly one calls it out. I'm glad it does get called out.Just when you think he might learn something from sentiments people express, either he digs down, or blocks, or hands over to the vultures who creep out and often side with his (and others) nonsense in various ways, (such as sticking their beaks in to pick at something barely related to the core topic, or some cherry-picked ancillary comment, or dig at those trying to help) because it suits their own agenda.That doesn't help anyone in the slightest, and they likely don't care about him in the _slightest_.Regarding the prior comment:QuoteI bet we all feel like that for him from time to time; it's human nature. But then he doubles down with more nonsensical output or simply refuses to want to improve.Case in point, look at that earlier link where people corralled to provide him positive support; such is nature, no normal person wants bullying to occur. Did he improve himself from that experience? In that light (and regardless), his comments regarding bullying were insensitive to anyone with a child being bullied, and plain wrong. Naturally, he was called out on it.I'd hoped he'd be more open to change, but he's not. Hopefully, others reading the thread will be, though, were they to ever consider the merits(!) of bullying.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 03:14:42 pm
content: Quote from: temperance on April 09, 2025, 12:06:12 pmNo, I mustn't because words have meanings and I'm using them in the traditional sense without rewriting the dictionary to uit my needs, unlike some people.Quote from: temperance on April 09, 2025, 12:06:12 pmSure, I'm all for telling useless people to get their s together and start acting like an adult. Even if that makes them uncomfortable.

author: metertech58761
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 09:18:50 pm
content: I'm the OP from the referenced thread. It still amazes me how _quickly_ the thread got away from me and descended into tl;dr territory.Another thing to think about before sending a 'hasty' post - you have no way of knowing if or how it may impact their RL situation.(if they don't get no respect IRL and they don't get no respect online, where does that leave them? Just saying.)

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 10:54:51 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 09, 2025, 06:23:18 amOK but thats not what was being discussed. They were encouraging bullying of children, either you are for or against that statement. Don't try to weasel out of the answer by saying "wellll sometimes its opposite".Quoteand you think from your terrible personal experience this somehow applies to everyone?Many people in my school were bullied, not a single person became a terrorist or ended up in an institution. Even if they did, how was defending them doing the wrong thing? Do you have some proof showing that psychopaths who are bullied turn out worse if they are befriended or defended?Or is it that the bullies that usually turn out bad:"Further evidence from longitudinal studies indicates that the tendency to bully others at school significantly predicts subsequent antisocial and violent behaviour."https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/070674370304800904Quote from: Siwastaja on April 09, 2025, 06:49:54 amSo you are attempting to discredit us by saying we behave like "normal" people. Uh...QuoteIts a technical forum, any technical contributions he adds (and there are quite a few) are appreciated.The off topic, political extremist views are not. They don't belong here. He clearly has issues holding himself back from posting them, and if its an issue here, it may be an issue in the workplace as well. Which is why that link was relevant.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:12:38 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 09, 2025, 11:49:54 amBecause its adifferent viewpointfrom what he said before. Fighting and conflict is clearly not the same as bullying.Either he purposefully stepped his presented view backbecauseof the backlash, or he's made some mistake with the english language.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:21:02 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on April 09, 2025, 03:14:42 pmIf they were bullies as kids, the result of trying that with the adult version may well be a punch in the mouth!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:29:35 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on April 09, 2025, 11:21:02 pmAdult bullies are adept at spotting those who, for a variety of reasons, are too weak to retaliate.That is true at all scales from domestic/family to countries.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2025, 11:35:27 pm
content: Anyway back to the original C thread:Quote from: Siwastaja on March 28, 2025, 07:07:35 pmThis is what I read: anyone who posts "direct quote from above from radiolistener" is an idiot.How is this not a personal attack?Why is posting something like this necessary instead of simply countering with technical merits?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2025, 05:31:13 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on April 09, 2025, 11:49:54 amQuote from: tszaboo on April 09, 2025, 11:57:28 amYour laughably pathetic attempts to triangulate and gaslight me won't work.The ironic conclusion your posts draw to is, "Do as I say, not as I do". How cliche...