Some people should not own computers - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 06:48:44 am
content: Having a high level of ability with computers and electronics, some of us become the default help desk fall guy for relatives and friends. Just as it was in the "Can you please look at my TV" days.One bloke I know, a devout Illuminati conspiracy theorist, used to call me up every Saturday complaining his "damned computer thing" has problems. Eventually I spent and entire weekend fixing his laptop which had been full of crapware, bloatware, spyware, malware and where-do-you-want-to-go-to-today-ware. I did as much as I could to teach him how to use the computer. Within a week he was back on the phone again. I then suggested he do a course or buy an Apple which is more pensioner proof than a Windows machine. He was too lazy to do a free local course at the community centre. And he could not afford an Apple because he could not find work in Australia (seems not uncommon with Illuminati cult followers). Fortunately, he relocated overseas.Over the years I have come across people who "latch on" to you as friends because they know who are skilled with technology. Sometimes you keep your talents to yourself. I have learnt these people are users, not friends. Once a manager at IBM told his brother-in-law (whom I had never met) "I know a bloke who will fix it for you for free." He rocked up at my door unannounced on a Saturday morning to fix a memory problem at chip level in his Amstrad.Should some people simply not own a computer because they are technically inept and won't help themselves? Any other stories people have of helping technically challenged friends and relatives with computers and electronics who have almost driven you nuts?

author: f1rmb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 07:00:06 am
content: Sounds familiar ;-)

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 07:01:07 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 04, 2014, 06:48:44 amYes, then I learned after reinstalling the OS for the 3rd time to lock down all privileges and give the user the equivalent of "guest" or non administrator helped a lot.However, that doesn't stop them from social engineering or phishing emails. Adding something like adguard also helps remove questionable ads and provide some URL checking.In the end, some people are gullible or have no street smarts regardless whether they use a computer or not.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 07:04:32 am
content: I definitely don't know anything about computers or fixing them. Nope. Won't make that mistake again!

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 08:00:20 am
content: oooh man...I hear ya, they are everywhere, doesn't mater country or planet...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 08:21:48 am
content: Computers are just too complicated for some people.I think there must be a market for a simple unit that just does basic web & email, with all the software on read-only media , so no possibility of viruses etc.

author: daveshah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 08:22:52 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2014, 08:21:48 amThat's basically a Chromebook

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 09:07:51 am
content: I hear tell the trick is to mention your rate is $50/hr or what have you.Tim

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 09:46:35 am
content: $50/hr is cheap depending on how badly they need there computer or its data in the next hour,One night i had a friend of a friend ring me up at 3AM on a weekday saying his computer stopped working and smelled smoke and needed it working before 5AM, he was an hours drive away from me and in a panic so i flat out said $450 an hour plus parts, and he reluctantly agreed,his power supply had failed, swapped out with a $90 good quality unit i had in spare, tested it and was done in about 15 minutes, easy money as he had no other choice under those conditions, and i didn't exactly want middle of the night service calls repeated :/

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 09:46:47 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 04, 2014, 09:07:51 amOr that you are only familiar with Linux.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 11:27:42 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on October 04, 2014, 09:46:35 am$450 is a fair price. Where I live, we have a severe shortage of plumbers for a number of reasons. I had a plumber out recently... $350 per hour. I booted him out after 1.5 hours. Got another one, not much cheaper at $1800 for about 6 hours work. They don't need to spend 4 years studying for a degree, don't need to know about computers, and have a far better job prospects than electronics engineers have. I look forward to some plumber asking me to have a look at his computer... $350 to knock on his door, $350 per hour thereon. After all, ripping people off is the only language they seem to understand.

author: steve750
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 11:50:28 am
content: I agree with all the comments above. People don't realise how valuable your knowledge is. I too am first call for family and friens repairs, and word travels fast that you 'kown all' about computers. It should be worth a few bucks but, family=free, friends=a beer and generaly I am the one spending hours for next to nothing.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 11:51:27 am
content: who remembers dave's rant about people asking him to fix their tv's

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 11:55:28 am
content: bingo

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 12:47:02 pm
content: I've said it before and I'll say it again, computers are still not ready for the mainstream consumer. Yet somehow almost everyone has one.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 12:50:15 pm
content: Quote from: steve750 on October 04, 2014, 11:50:28 amReminds me when I worked at a company of about 60 engineers and programmers working on an advanced PBX system. The company had one of Australia's richest men as the chairman. As the company was going under, the chairman personally guaranteed he would pay all our entitlements to keep us hanging on working for no pay. A few months later we were all retrenched. He lied to all of us. Paid us not one cent. He had one of the PBX's in his mansion and after we were all retrenched it broke with a problem I was aware of... a dry joint on a 20 cent power resistor in the SMPS and a burnt track. About 20 minutes to repair it.His private secretary contacted me to fix it. I quoted him $6,000... $3,000 to look at the problem and a further $3000 if I fix it. He was paying for my knowledge and that included the knowledge that he was a prick.

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 01:07:44 pm
content: Cost of living, overheads, etc. mean I charge $110/hour. Seems like a lot of dough, but there isn't a lot left at the end of the week.I keep my mouth shut about computer issues. They have the capacity to chew up massive amounts of time, often to no end.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 02:12:49 pm
content: Solved a computer issue last night. Put in windows CD, pressed reset and booted off CD, then selected install and left it at that. Lot better than trying to find which weird combination of leftover drivers and old dreck was causing the issue. Left him to reinstall windows and had supper with the family, then let him install video drivers and steam. Probably working well now, as all old stuff is gone from assorted video upgrades. This time even got the keyboard to have the right keymapping.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 02:47:01 pm
content: Quote from: daveshah on October 04, 2014, 08:22:52 amI think it would have to be more basic than that ;-)

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 02:50:31 pm
content: Welcome to the club!I only fix the computers of my family and a few friends. Luckily I've managed to educate most of them, so I don't have to spend much time with that. My parents are happy Linux users. If someone else, e.g. a neighbour, asks, I simply say no or offer to fix the computer if he spends the same time working in the garden (or whatever I got in my mind). Works a treat. Only a few accepted that special deal over the years

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 03:00:25 pm
content: Singing to the choir.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 03:10:02 pm
content: When I was 16 I fixed a Windows XP machine once that was missing a ntldr file, which apparently is quite important.It took me 15 minutes worth of procedures to start the automated repair thing, and run fixmbr which resolved it.I hestitantly accepted 50 euro's for the whole deal, probably because the whole thing took 2 hours due to a very slow machine. The rest of the time was filled with coffee, tea, biscuits and apple pie.Now I know better, and probably would refuse to do any work on someone's computer. They either should get themselves educated, or get an iPad (or something similar without a mouse, in Dutch/local language and not hard to forget how stuff works).

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 04:01:16 pm
content: Solved the problem with my mother in law always asking me to fix her computer. I fixed it good, installed Linux and did not give her the password now she cannot screw it up, well it's worked so far. By the way she is 94 and and was surfing the web and writing her stories within the hour and her computer skills are zero.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 05:43:08 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 04, 2014, 12:47:02 pmI sometimes doubt if computers are even ready for the market. For instance on my iPad Air running the latest iOS 8.02 the wireless download speed drops to about 10 kb/s unless I first close all open apps. After I do that the speed goes back to a more sensible 15 MB/s. How you are supposed to browse the web when an open browser app slows the internet to a crawl eludes me.I sincerely hope Apple are going to fix this in the next update or I will be returning my defective product for one that is actually designed to work.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 05:43:31 pm
content: Rule #1 I do not fix MS Windows Computers even if it is a hardware problem, I will however help you load Linux Mint on your machine after showing you how to backup your data and transfer it across.Rule #2 I do not fix Sony equipmentRule #3 My costs are 100 Euro for the first hour and 50 Euro per hour after that.Rule #4 I do not fix anything for free unless you are my girlfriend.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 06:14:42 pm
content: I would say rule 4 is negotiable as well.Rule 1 is usable up to a point, where reinstalling is the quickest and least painful, especially if you make them a limited user as well. Lessens the spyware, but you still have the browser crapware.Rule 2 is Sony is fine so long as I did not buy it, and will use it till it breaks and is not repairable without buying something from Sony, whereupon it becomes a kit and scrap metal.Rule 3 is negotiable, sometimes you charge more ( especially after hours and on weekends and public holidays) and sometimes you charge less.

author: kxenos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 06:32:19 pm
content: I still run the helpdesk for family and close friends. For the rest, I have a colleague of mine. Whenever we can't charge for a repair we say I'm too busy but I know someone who can repair it and send the clients to each other and everybody's happy.

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 07:11:26 pm
content: I know the feeling...Apparently being mostly tech-literate and handy with a screwdriver means I can magically fix any of your problems.One of my parents friends came up to me the other day and asked if I knew how to fix his laptop where the power cord wouldn't work and it didn't recognize the battery...Umm, nope, I don't even know what model of computer you have, and with that problem something's probably fried on the chip level. Just because I fixed my computer with a broken screen doesn't mean I am all-knowing about every model of computer made on earth...

author: Zeta
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 07:29:49 pm
content: The thing is most people will recognize an activity involving manual labor as work but not so an intellectual activity. So asking a lawyer friend an advice over dinner or doctor brother to check on your skin seem just fine.I run the help desk for computer related stuff for family and close friends because they also help me with other stuff when I need it.

author: BBQ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 08:23:01 pm
content: Usually "simple" tasks, i.e set up a router or install some driver, but the payment has always been fair.But PC's makes me so tired, so tired.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2014, 08:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: Mr Eastwood on October 04, 2014, 02:47:01 pmHere in the US, used to be WebTV, but that is gone, here is a replacement:http://landel.com/mailbug/email-replacement-for-webtv/.I recently set up a computer for a fellow ham club member who is older and a computer luddite. I set her up with a restricted account and when I brought the computer over her house and set it up, I flat told her I would not teach her how to use the internet and to find some computer savvy friends at her church. I didn't even want to help her with the computer but got suckered into it. One of the other club members had asked me for some help (him I was willing to help) and after I agreed, that's when he told me it was for her.I couldn't say no at that point as she was sitting right there-this was at a meeting. Close friends and family know better to volunteer me. They have learned to say that they may know someone and get the details and then come to me and ask if I am willing to help and what, if any, is the fee. Only family is always free, SWMBO says it must be so.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 12:33:40 am
content: A friend who worked at our local appliance store in the late 90's, told me that a middle-aged customer, after hearing all the hype about the information superhighway, walked in and asked the salesman, "I want to buy an internet."In the early to mid 80's the vast majority of people who paid top dollar HI-FI stereo VCR, had the sound simply played through the TV. They were the same people who invariably left the the ratty plastic protective film on the VCR front panel or TV remote control.There is one company out there who profits from techno-fools...http://www.sanityeducation.com.au/. Their advertising "It's not that you can't, it just that you have never been shown how." is inferring you and I are the cause of the problem...

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 12:39:54 am
content: QuoteI don't know which is worse: belittling those people who need help or providing them with help and getting paid for that.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 01:09:23 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 05, 2014, 12:33:40 amSometimes we are.There is a huge difference between showing, explaining, and walking someone through how something works & how to use it, and actually educating them. There's also huge differences in the way people learn - particularly depending on their age, the reason they're trying to learn, how related it is to things they already know, and how invested they are in learning (e.g. whether they want to learn, feel they have to learn, or are being forced to learn).That's something I didn't fully grasp until (a) I spent a lot of time helping my 70+ father - who does semi-professional audio & video reconstruction, editing, and CD/DVD/BR mastering on his computers - and realised he basically doesn't have much of an idea where he's saved things unless they appear in the "recently used files" menu, and (b) started lecturing & tutoring students myself.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 02:00:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 04, 2014, 12:47:02 pmI think it's the other way around - the mainstream consumer is not ready for computers.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 02:11:45 am
content: Every time you are tempted to call someone stupid, think about the countless number of people who could have called you the same, justifiably so.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 03:26:21 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 05, 2014, 02:08:02 amIt's called usability and ease-of-use. Products must be intuitive, and usability studies are very important in making a good product.I doubt Apple did serious usability studies with iTunes. Some people like iTunes, many people I know hate the infamous bloatware with a passion. Apple's paradigm is "You will do it our way because we know what is best for you."

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 07:04:04 am
content: Its gets worse once your friends and relatives work out that you can remotely help them with their computer using remote control software like teamviewer (if I can get in), no matter where or what timezone they live in.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 08:51:10 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2014, 08:21:48 amI don't believe in that. The most "stupid" users always want the most shiny bling device, and are the first ones to put "whatever" app on it when they meet.they need a simple device, but don't want it.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 08:59:41 am
content: Quote from: jhalar on October 05, 2014, 07:04:04 amThis helps a lot of times. Most noobs can't even read and pronounce decently the english error messages popping up the screen, and I don't want to listen to an long uninterpreted rant. I call them back in the evening and have a look.I help a lot of friends for free, but only the ones capable of doing something else. There's a plumber, somebody who makes good cakes, and another with a car garage full of tools. I'm also not charged for their short-term services, and every intervention ends up in drinking some beers.The topic starter is right, but a lot of people should also not own a central heating, a kitchen and a car.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 10:54:41 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2014, 08:21:48 am~Unfortunately it doesn't stop them from responding to phishing emails.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 12:58:01 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 05, 2014, 12:33:40 amCuriously, i found that seniors are quite a bit better at learning than many of the younger people.A few years ago i taught my 90 year old grandmother how to use a computer.She had no clue even what a mouse is, and only heard about computers on TV and in sci-fi before.Yet, it took her a few hours to grasp the basics.Reading and sending the e-mail, skype, how and where to store files, how to look photos, how to pay the bills over the internet, etc.And i haven't heard anything other than specific questions from her since.On the other hand my brother, who is a doctor and a generally smart person, still can't seem to grasp the basics, and every now and then i get to clean up some winlocker ("it's not a virus, it was a movie player from a *free movies site*!") or deleted system files ("i didn't name any files in english!"), or whatever.Maybe it's just luck.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2014, 01:05:44 pm
content: I have managed to cut out most of these support cases. Except my mother.Last time she visited, she dropped only 7 broken computers on me, saying maybe you could see if you can make one or two working ones out of these... Of course she expects me to do it for free since shes family...Haven't even started that this salvage projects yet.. Im considering if i should keep detailed operations log on every one i investigate and salvage... And lets not forget those important files on all those hard-drives she wants to be saved... Why she docent backup things is beyond me... And slap some sort of €/hour rate on it to highlight fact i have better things to do then play computer trash salvage game...

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 12:41:59 am
content: I too tend to get a bit frustrated with fixing other peoples computers.Sometimes I don't mind if its just a simple job, or if I get some payment, but that too can be annoying.It does depend onwhoI am helping though. For example my Dad is quite patient, will write down error messages, explain it calmly, tell me what he did to try and fix it himself etc. Sorting his problems out is OK and can be quite pleasant. Whereas all I will get from my mother is 'STEVE30 IT DOESN'T WORK - FIX IT NOW'.I actually find I can't help people with their computer problems as much these days. Many people use newer versions of Windows, but I haven't used anything newer than XP. And so many people use smartphones and tablets, both of which I have never used myself, and can't possibly help with.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 02:16:19 am
content: I have a relative who does not own a computer or a mobile phone. He does not own an ATM card or a credit/debit card or a cheque book. To pay the bills, he goes to the bank, withdraws money using an antiquated paper-based bank book and goes to the post office to pay his bills. He pays cash for everything. He drives a 1970's HX Holden (General Motors) car that he can fix himself. He has a full time job as a cabinet maker and he does not use a computer at work.Should he own a computer? No. He does not WANT to. The only modern electronics device in his home is one telly - an old picture tube type and a set-top box he got someone to install after the government cut the analogue signals off. He does own a land-line phone, but he calls no-one.If anything, the government would have almost no method to spy on him. No digital footprint. No tracking his mobile phone. He enjoys complete privacy and lives a happy life.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 04:57:46 am
content: Same here... I have these rules for dealing with this sort of thing:If it can't be handled over the phone/mail within 5-10 minutes then no.If it's from someone who has not talked to me in 10 years and suddenly remembers I exist (Those conversations are amusing: "Hey, David! Haven't heard from you in a while, how are things... ", "Good enough here, you?", "Eh, my computer's a bit weird, it's..."), then no.The only exception to this are my 2-4 closest relatives, whom I have painstakingly educated and denied all administrative privileges.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 07:10:08 am
content: When I used to have a side job fixing computers at a local retail establishment, we used to have this woman that would come in every 30 days or so for us to safely update her antivirus definitions for her. The reason she wouldn't do it is because she keeps her 3 DSL modems locked up in a safe, because her neighbors use them to spy on her and record everything she does, and also how they steal her credit card numbers before the cards are mailed to her and she has to be careful because of all the hidden cameras in her house transmitting wirelessly to them. So she doesn't dare connect her laptop to the internet because they'd then be able to read her private documents, so her updates have to be done under the supervision of specialists who promise not to leave it connected for more than the 10 minutes it takes to update everything. She now no longer has the money to buy any more DSL modems because all the others are infected by the hackers that live in her neighbors houses."Yes ma'am we'll be very careful with your computer, that will be $39.95 please."

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 11:57:11 am
content: You could make a fortune selling her aluminium foil for hat-making.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 12:08:46 pm
content: @Stonent, sounds like the help she needs is not on her computer but on HER, and those guys (and gals) charge a lot.A silly comment I heard recently was they have renamed OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) CDO, so the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be! HiHi

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 12:43:48 pm
content: Quote from: wagon on October 06, 2014, 11:57:11 amMake the hat and double the fortuneDon't forget to tell her it was made with 99.999995 oxygen free aluminium to inflate the price further.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 12:52:18 pm
content: My girlfriend has an external harddrive which has had issues recently. Just stopped working etc. I told her to leave it alone, I'll check to see if its just the converter electronics etc. Try to run data recovery on it, etc, but to wait until I could get a chance to play with it, to leave it alone until then.Then I get text messages "It's not screaching, its clicking now, I knocked it off the edge of the bed accidentally" And then she sends me a youtube video of people fixing that hard drive by opening the lid, moving the head back into the park position and putting it back together.JUST F*@#$ING LEAVE IT ALONE, I'm not taking the top off without a clean room and torque drivers and torque specs. Jeeze.I've gotten used to the idea of people actively working against you with software problems... not hardware problems.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 04:14:08 pm
content: I'm lucky, most of the people around me either know the basics or dont bother me. I am tech support for my house though. However, its abundantly clear that I will not fix every little problem and I am not bothered but every so often. If I was not tech support for my house, I am sure they would be paying quite a bit(in time and money) for what is done.Computers are practically a basic life skill today and not learning how to use one would be similiar to not knowing how to prepare food 200 years ago. In rare instances a person can get by, but otherwise...you know.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 04:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on October 06, 2014, 04:14:08 pmIn WW2, people being inducted into the services had to be told "this is the hole for water, this is the hole for oil, this is the hole for petrol. If you put it in the wrong hole, the engine breaks down".Computers are at that stage now, whereas cars+people usually don't fall into that trap.But soon cars will revert to the unreliability of the '40s-'80s - due to them becoming infested with too many computers.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 05:08:51 pm
content: Quote from: German_EE on October 04, 2014, 05:43:31 pmHow much do you charge to your mother or father or brother or sister ?David.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 05:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: steve30 on October 06, 2014, 12:41:59 amYour mum calls you steve30?!Unfortunately it is a fact of life that if we show an ounce of knowledge or willing to fix something then it will be forever associated with us!Friends and family I usually fix, close family and close friends I do it for free as they help me, I help them, I don't keep tally the number of times but if I did, I would definitely be in credit!Typically, depends what I am doing I will charge £20 - £30 for the work, from reinstalling the O/S to replacing parts on a laptop to replacing a screen. I have had anything from new machines where the owner doesn't know how to switch it on to computers in bits from a "professional shop" where the owner has gotten pissed off with the time they take and just gone in and fetched it in it's disassembled state and dumped it on my doorstep.I tend to just say no to other people as I don't want to be seen as a "business".I tend to fix other stuff like tv's and set top boxes for my parents and my missus' parents for free, I buy "broken" things like tv's and the like, fix them and sell them for a profit sometimes.I would estimate that I make no more than £300 a year doing all of this, and that might be overstating it a bit!I have a full time job I make my own stuff at home and I don't want to waste my time fixing computers every evening for people I don't know.I know people that charge an absolute fortune for doing various things, one thing that is an easy money spinner is setting up a wordpress template and selling it as a "handmade website", friend of mine's dad had a website set up by a "professional" company, using wordpress, charged him £2,500 for the pleasure, what is really annoying is he didn't even think to ask until it was too late and he paid the money for the monstrosity he had built for him.Ah well!

author: steve30
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 05:51:13 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on October 06, 2014, 05:09:21 pmNah, I substituted my forum name is to avoid ambiguity.Are the WordPress sites they make any good?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2014, 11:59:29 pm
content: LolSome are, but it depends on the template, wordpress itself is a good framework, but some are a bit too home made.Some just look proper naff, it's the price some people charge that gets me, I wouldn't mind if they made it themselves!

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 12:41:02 am
content: Wordpress is insanely easy. It's kind of funny that people don't ask me to make websites for them just because they know I can, they ask me to fix computers for them so why not...Either way, I've made a few wordpress sites at a profit - small businesses that are just getting into the Web are great, it's the perfect thing for them as they don't need many special features, just a theme and images and stuff... beats flipping burgers!

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 12:02:09 pm
content: It is insanely easy, it's a good bit of coding, and fair play if you can make a living from it.Some people do take the proverbial when it comes to pricing up.It's strange though because someone will pay £500 for someone to come and fix a radiator or something, but when you say anything of sorts for a computer they look at you a bit strange, in my view, if someone is willing to pay a fortune to have something fixed they use maybe a few months in a year, why are they not willing to pay a fortune for something they use every day of their lives?!I am not saying I would charge someone £500 to fix their computer, but not everybody can do plumbing, and not everybody can fix a computer, especially at component level.I know you can buy a new one for less than £500, but it's more about the information that could be lost.A thought i have always found interesting.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 12:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: TheBorg on October 07, 2014, 12:41:02 amI hope you're subscribed to a security mailing list. Wordpress provides you with a lot of fun, expecially if you've installed plugins.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 12:41:21 pm
content: Quote from: ConKbot on October 06, 2014, 12:52:18 pmSoftware engineering--the ongoing battle between engineers trying to make idiot proof software and the universe building better idiots, so far the universe is winning. Even though I am tech support here at home, the wife and stepdaughter do little with their laptops so problems are few and far between. Speaking of software idiots, it seems that Microsoft will be giving free windows 10 upgrades to Windows 8 users. I guess they were tired of stepping on their own genitalia with golf shoes over the debacle known as Window 8, they are going to do something for the user s instead of the profit margin.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 01:34:15 pm
content: QuoteSeverity?Frequency of incidents is just one of many factors in motivating people. You wear your underwear everyday but that doesn't mean you will fix that hole in it.If your annual bonus check isn't being issued on time, you would be very eager to get it fixed.It is not that hard to comprehend this, right?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 02:37:47 pm
content: The attitude here towards the technology-challenged folks is no different from the general public's disdain for the socially-challenged nerds: the nerds don't know how to talk to people; how to lead people; how to build consensus; how to effect changes; they don't know how to prompt themselves and their ideas; they have no idea how to dress for occasions; ...Every time you belittle those who are NOT as good as you in one area, just remember that there are countless people out there who can beat you in countless areas.Hopefully the thought of that will bring some humility to you.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 02:46:39 pm
content: "How much do you charge to your mother or father or brother or sister ?"No sisters. As for the other three my fee is the usual rate plus 2500 Euro for the exhumation and reburial

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 02:53:19 pm
content: Googling skills. That's what needs to be taught in primary school.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 03:39:07 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 07, 2014, 02:53:19 pmYou would be surprised, but when I was around 12-13, I was learning DOS commands, winzip, using the search button on the internetz (altavista and yahoo if I remember. Google was nowhere back then) in school, amongst other skills which are invaluable. I had an excellent physics/informatics teacher.Yeah, I'm not that that old.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 03:59:35 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on October 07, 2014, 02:37:47 pmNot really,"Nerds" come in all sorts of people these days, and I don't think most of us "belittle" people who have no technology sense, it's just the times they were brought up in, I have been praised several times for being patient with people, I know how frustrating it is when something doesn't work properly, I was brought up in a world where if you couldn't fix it yourself and it costs too much to get repaired then it stayed broken.I know there are things that I can't do that others can, I don't really care though to be honest, it would be quite obscure if we as humans possessed every skill going.What I find hard to comprehend is lack of common sense, as they say, you can't fix stupid.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 05:24:39 pm
content: QuoteWhat's common sense is relative to the framework of reference and often times highly specialized.For example, it may be common sense to us to make phone calls or to drive a car - not so for folks living in the Amazon;How to survive in the rainforest may be common sense to those living in the Amazon - not so for folks living in Northern Europe;...The fact that many people struggle with computers tend to show that computer knowledge is anything but common sense.But that's beside the point here. What I wanted to say is that we have to respect other people, regardless of their lack of certain skills that we possess.Not knowing about fixing computers doesn't make them stupid; Knowing about fixing computers doesn't make you smart either. We have differing skills and that's good for us all.

author: sunnyhighway
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 06:15:28 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on October 07, 2014, 05:24:39 pmYou seem to have common sense and common knowledge mixed-up.Common sense is more like: If you look to the left, you won't be able to see what's going on at the right.People texting whilst driving a car, seem to miss that particular piece of common sense.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 09:49:59 pm
content: Common sense is common sense.Knowing how to fix something is a skill, you are getting confused between the two.Common sense means if someone phones you up and says you have a problem with your computer, pay them £50 and they will fix it for you, you do, they frig it up for you on purpose so you pay them more money, fine, you learn not to, they do it 3 or 4 times again, after you explicitly told them what would happen, that's stupidity and lack of common sense!Not knowing how to install a new motherboard or not knowing how to use a piece of software is skill, n problem with that.And I wouldn't expect anyone from the Amazon to know how to fix a computer any more than I know how to make a bed out of a tree and soggy leaves!

author: steve750
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 10:23:14 pm
content: Too many people have a computer because it is the trendy thing to have.They have no real need or use for it. An understanding of how computers work, as most forum members have, makes using them easier. The average punter lacks this.Its true you don't have to know how a car works to drive it, but it helps so I have to agree with Dave's point 'computers are not ready for consumers yet' When I help family/friends I do try to educate so that I don't have to keep going back but find it easier to switch my phone off!

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2014, 11:22:58 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 04, 2014, 06:48:44 amI helped a guy once that had over 1,800 trojans, viruses, malware and god knows what else! It took all night to get his machine back to a decent working order. Unbelieveable!!!

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2014, 04:29:09 am
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on October 08, 2014, 11:22:58 pmReminiscent of the old Strongbad Virus Email bit:http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail118.html

author: TheBorg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2014, 04:50:22 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on October 07, 2014, 12:02:09 pmI do it mainly over the summers when I have more free time... it pays for the hobbyQuote from: madires on October 07, 2014, 12:10:59 pmYeah, sometimes it can be a bit sketchy but most of what I do is just get a business name out on the web, I don't handle much sensitive information. Sometimes the things that come up are just plain stupid thoughQuote from: Stonent on October 07, 2014, 02:53:19 pmPeople think it's pretty cool when I can google stuff and come up with relevant information most of the time. Honestly, Googling takes practice. It amazes me how often people are incredibly verbose with google and expect it to come up with what they want. Google doesn't understand english, it understands search terms... though that gap is getting ever smaller.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2014, 09:02:05 am
content: Quote from: TheBorg on October 09, 2014, 04:50:22 amperiod1: Search engines didn't work well, and there was not much information on internet. Getting the info you wanted, was very difficult.period2: Search engines were optimalised, and there was much info on internet. Getting the info you wanted, became very easy.period3: Search engines were made profitable, and there was too much info of all kinds on internet. Getting the info you wanted became very difficult.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2014, 11:29:01 am
content: google at times relies on someone going word for word with you, in a particular case, a song lyric had about 25 la's e.g la la la la , la lai spaced it with commas from what i heard and lo and behold another internet user had asked it as a question in the same format,More recently google has become very cumbersome to use, with all its promoted links, and radically falls off topic by the 3rd page, where as say go back 4 years if i was determined enough i was still digging up gold by the 50th page, if this keeps up i'm likely to jump ship to a dumber search engine, where if i specifically type out something, then i'm ok with synonyms, but not flat out ignoring everything but the word that will get the most hits, even less happy when i have to deliberately mis-spell words to get hits to scoot around googles filters, or pop culture references...On the up side google caching generally allows one to see past a large number of invite only and paywall sites, as you see what there bot sees,

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2014, 11:46:57 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 09, 2014, 09:02:05 amperiod4: search engines de-emphasise the useful stuff that doesn't change over time, and emphasis the ephemeral stuff that nobody will care about in 6 months. Yes google, I'm looking at you

author: Timmay
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 09:59:43 am
content: Quote from: Galenbo on October 09, 2014, 09:02:05 amYes, this is where the term "Google Foo" comes from. Some people have not been privileged to watch the internet grow from the BBS era. Terms most internet users who think they are savvy have never heard of: ICQ, Quake, mIRC, BBS, Hyperlinks, cyberspace, AOL, Prodigy, Tripod, Warez, <blink>, and the list goes on. Point being, some of us are privileged to have watched the internet grow some are not. That isn't to say you should or shouldn't help it just means some people are always going to be internet noobs, and if you can help them you should. If not, oh well.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 10:25:26 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 09, 2014, 11:46:57 amPeriod 2a:When jerks realised with the advent of period 2, you could cause chaos by putting all sorts of false hooks on the net - and letting computer illiterates believe hem to be true.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 09:13:33 pm
content: The original subject reminds me of the, probably apocryphal, story about the help desk operative who received a call from a user complaining that their computer didn't work. (The following is reduced to the bare minimum.)After patiently attempting to locate the source of the issue the operative asked the user to confirm whether or not the power cord had become dislodged. The user replied that that would be difficult because there was insufficient light as there was a power cut, and asked what they should do now.The operative suggested that the user should return the computer and ask for a refund as they were clearly too stupid to own one!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 09:27:47 pm
content: QuoteThat, sadly, is how the elitists of our societies look at the rest of us.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 11:25:45 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on October 11, 2014, 09:27:47 pmDarwin was here

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2014, 06:23:04 am
content: I had that where a person complained that she could not print, and had sent around 400 jobs into the server spooler, around 100 per printer that was attached to her computer. The laser printers are not connected to the UPS that her computer is attached to, so of course they would not print. She was totally unaware that computers and printers needed electricity to work, she could not connect the idea that the switch on the wall that turns on the lights is actually also connected to the printer and the computer as well.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2014, 08:02:49 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 12, 2014, 06:23:04 amWell, at least she had the sense not to plug the printer on the UPS, that will most likely reboot her computer every time she tried to print

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2014, 08:13:45 am
content: That would be beyond her ability. She can plug in a cellphone charger, but if the switch on the plug is off she has no idea. Her knowledge of electricity is a bill she moans about every month, then goes and turns on all lights in the whole house when she gets home and leaves them on till bedtime. Changing bulbs is a task for the hubby, and plugging in anything other than a kettle is not doable. Ironing is done by the maid, who has a clue.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 02:54:38 pm
content: I totally relate to that post, I'm sick tired of people knocking my door to repair their precious pcs, or people that I don't see in years text me to ask for favors.Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 04, 2014, 08:21:48 amI don't want to be an Apple fanboy but this device is an iPad, I have 3 cousins that use iPads since the were 4 years old and could barely talk right, I know 2 elders that own one as well and just use it on daily basis. iOS is as best as it gets for the main public, one app per task, no configuration, no viruses...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 02:59:51 pm
content: This reminds me ofMedieval helpdesk with English subtitlesOr the English versionSeveral times I felt like that

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 04:33:02 pm
content: Quote from: victor on October 15, 2014, 02:54:38 pmLet's say it's less malware. There are viruses and trojans for iOS too, but much less than for Windows. But there's another threat regarding privacy. A lot of apps scan for personal data, GPS location, phone numbers, email addresses and what have you and send the data to some server. I doubt most users know about that.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 04:38:54 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 15, 2014, 04:33:02 pmThere are no virus, but there are scam apps, but the average user does not download apps regulary, so this is not a big deal, they will probably download one of the very popular app. Let's not get into the privacy issue, that exist in all platforms even banks and stores that sell your personal info, at least iOS give you some control over which apps are trying to access. Facebook and Google can gather so much information about you independent of OS.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 15, 2014, 02:59:51 pmStumbled to another support video.

author: victor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:02:30 pm
content: Quote from: madires on October 15, 2014, 04:33:02 pmThere are no virus, but there are scam apps, but the average user does not download apps regulary, so this is not a big deal, they will probably download one of the very popular app. Let's not get into the privacy issue, that exist in all platforms even banks and stores that sell your personal info, at least iOS give you some control over which apps are trying to access. Facebook and Google can gather so much information about you independent of OS.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:44:41 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 15, 2014, 05:45:08 pmThis is my favorite tech support video.Old but still very good:The Website Is Down - Sales Guy vs. Web Dude