Suggestion on new PC - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: blueskull
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 05:24:46 am
content: Hi, I want to build a new PC workstation for Altium Designer and MinGW compiler toolchain.I do gaming, but I'm not a serious gamer. Portal 2 is the most demanding game I'll run.I suffered from bizarre memory problems alot, so I WILL buy something with ECC memory ONLY.Here are my chioces:a. C226 mobo+Xeon E3-1271 V3+DDR3 1866 (Memory Controller OC) ECC 8G*2+GTX 750 Tib. X99 mobo+Xeon E5-1630/50 v3(Quad/Hex core)+DDR4 2133 ECC 4G*4+GTX 750 TiPrices for C226 and X99 is close (X99 is $50 more expensive), prices for E3-1271 V3 and E5-1630 is very close.DDR4 is a little more expensive than DDR3, but quad channel offers much more bandwidth compared to DDR3.The only drawback is X99 platform consumes much more idle power (80+W vs 40+W).I want to put everything into a small form factor case, both C226 and X99 have uATX mobos.So, what you guys may suggest me to buy?I want to buy things from newegg or superbiiz.

author: awallin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:22:02 am
content: I just built an LGA2011-3 machine, and to my surprise there was no stock intel cooler supplied with the CPU.The third party coolers are all very big so you have to carefully check that they fit your case and that they don't block RAM-slots - the cooler will also come very close to the GPU card.I was a bit disappointed that drivers for the GTX 750 Ti are not automatically detected&installed on linux (Ubuntu 14.04LTS) - had to find and install the nvidia driver manually.I put 2x 8Gb DDR4, but maybe using 4x sticks provides more bandwidth. The X99 did not boot even to the BIOS unless the ram sticks are exactly in the right slots (there are 8 slots on the mobo).

author: JuiceKing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 09:03:34 am
content: I learned the hard way that box size is directly related to long-term PC happiness. Make sure the case you get has adequate airflow with margin. My main PC dates back to 2005, but no component is original at this point; everything has been upgraded over the years. The system wasn't rock-solid reliable (and at times terribly unreliable) until I got a big Corsair box for it 4 years ago. That gives me room for a big heatsink on the CPU, big fans on the front, top and back. Big fans can run slow and silent. Cool components just keep working. The original case--spec'd by the assembler/manufacturer--was just too cramped for its own good.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 06:49:53 pm
content: H87M-E + I5-4670 + 2x8GB DDR3 +250GB SSD + 2TB HDDNo clue about your Nasa-EEC memory, the reason why you would need that, the solution you try to reach with that, and the new problems that will pop up with that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 07:06:13 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on November 21, 2014, 06:49:53 pm+1If you go this way, a couple of years down the track just drop an I7 in for a cheap futher upgrade.

author: abaxas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 07:16:00 pm
content: Buy an ex corporate machine that is 3-4 years old. Stick in 8 gig of ram, a low end graphics card and an SSDTotal cost 15-25% of what you are currently spending for 60-70% the performanceRepeat in 3 years time for a machine better than you have already spec'ed.

author: magetoo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 08:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: abaxas on November 21, 2014, 07:16:00 pmI was going to point to the/r/buildapcsubreddit but have to say that is a perfectly valid option too. (power and space being the possible drawback)

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2014, 09:40:40 pm
content: QuoteA few different strategies:1) buy a high-end machine: I am still using a dual-xeon workstation I got several years ago (5 - 10 years, I think), and I think I can use it another 3 - 5 years. Perfectly capable for what I do, and plays most of the games. Yes, the machine was pricey but you get to use it over a longer period of time;2) buy a low-end server: you will often find those deals from time to time, HP, Dell, or Lenovo. TS140 for example has a E3 version that goes for $300(?).3) build you own. A dual x5650 go for $100 - 200. Building one from parts, especially you already have some of them, is likely the cheapest way to go.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 02:40:44 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 21, 2014, 05:24:46 amI'd get an Asus motherboard and A-brand memory like Kingston if I would build a machine myself. Over the years (decades!) I have build lots of rock solid PCs with those two brands. I only had a defective memory module once. Running x86memtest for a day or 2 is a good idea. I second the suggestion about a case with a good airflow. A used machine may be good value for money as well. For everyday use ECC memory may be overkill if you have a good motherboard and memory to begin with so an i7 based system could be another option.On paper the i7-4790 will provide the same computational performance as the Xeon E5-1630. I'm looking at buying a new PC as well (from Dell) but I have not found good comparison between the i7-4790 and the E5-1630 v3 where it comes to actual performance. The larger cache and more than twice the memory bandwith the E5-1630 offers should make a difference somewhere.I wouldn't get an old server. These are likely to have run in a hot place for a long time. Besides that servers are usually very noisy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 11:00:14 am
content: I wouldn't fixate on upgradeability. Sockets and memory change so much that by the time you want to upgrade your machine you end up buying a new CPU and memory which force you to buy a new motherboard as well. I'm more or less in the same boat regarding upgradingDell has 'Precision T1700' desktop systems in a small form factor case with Xeon E3 processors and ECC memory. The reason I buy 'for business' Dell systems nowadays is because their cases have better airflow than standard ATX cases and they have proven to be quite reliable. My kids trash their Dells by playing browser based games which have the CPU work at full power all day long.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 06:05:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 22, 2014, 11:00:14 am+1 The only time you should be worrying around being able to upgrade is when youre doing a new CPU every 6 months because youre paying $$$$ for the biggest and best for gaming etc...Spend enough to get a machine which will last a while, stuff it to the gills with RAM so you dont have to worry about matching timings later if you upgrade etc... Well maybe not completely full on those server motherboards with 8-16 slots that support 8 or 16 GB each, but on a desktop machine with 4-6 slots, I say max it out.I retired my last PC when I went to play a game (DayZ) that was PC only, and not a crap console port, and it was absolutely bogged down. Checked on newegg and the system was 7 years old, with a graphics card that was 3 years old. Oddly enough the xbox360 and PS3 were ~ 7 years old then too, so no wonder I could max out the settings still run console ports just fine

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 06:59:46 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on November 22, 2014, 12:02:17 pmThe 1U and blade servers I have worked on seem to be perfectly happy with a 100% load 24/7. Granted, they're kinda useless as workstations since you can't put much of a GPU in a 1U. Some 2U servers can accept GPUs but your best bet is to go 4U or bigger.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2014, 08:09:02 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on November 22, 2014, 06:59:46 pmThe thing is that those 1U server cases are designed for proper airflow while the standard ATX computer cases for which the design dates back from the early 80's have no planned airflow at all.

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2014, 12:26:50 am
content: It always seemed to me that the latest and greatest flavor of the month cpu's and boards have never really been worth the cost increase. How many people are really going to need that 5% difference? unless you plan on slagging the computer to within an inch of it's life with solidworks or creo, I would think an i5 quad core with a truckload of memory should generally be adequate, and just allow for an upgrade to an i7 should you find yourself really taxing the processor more heavily than expected.my biggest question would be whether or not to go with the 1150 or the 2011 socket. The 1150 seems so give you the most vendors, mobo options, and bang for the buck, while the 2011 seems to be more forward looking. With the speed at which things are changing in the computer market these days I'm not so sure anybody should even bother with looking 5 years into the future.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2014, 12:42:55 am
content: Something I learned recently to my cost is that modern high performance hard disks get HOT. Very hot. If you don't install them in a ventilated bay with good airflow they will fail. Guaranteed. Memory chips also get hot. Make sure they are cooled as well.Yeah, you may want to install just an SSD. But do you feel lucky? Do you?Short answer: small case equals loud fan and very annoying background noise. Large case equals quiet fan and a peaceful existence.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2014, 03:08:42 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 23, 2014, 12:42:55 amIMHO when using an SSD the key thing is to disable swapping to the hard drive especially when using Windows.Edit: I did some digging into how reliable SSDs are and much to my surprise the failure rate of A-brand SSDs is much lower than the failure rate of hard drives. I'm also pleased with how affordable SSDs got. Even 1TB from an A-brand like Samsung or Sandisk is not breaking the bank.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2014, 05:08:52 am
content: Blueskull, sounds like you're on the right track. Especially if you're after a high reliability machine, stick with the Xeon and ECC Registered RAM. The only advice I'd give you is if you're going all out to build a fairly high-spec and rock solid machine, do yourself a favour and invest in a Supermicro motherboard. Forget that consumer level stuff. You'll be happy you did for many years to come.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2014, 10:02:52 pm
content: If you are willing to give up just 100MHz core clock, grab the E3-1241v3. The box price drops substantially. If you can give up 200MHz, and grab a E3-1231v3 it's even lower, but not by as large a delta.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 08:21:34 pm
content: IMHO you should get as high a clock rate your money can buy. There are still many applications out there which are single threaded. Xilinx ISE for example; even though you can enable multi processing I've never seen it use more than 1 CPU.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 10:16:58 pm
content: Xilinx ISE does seem to only use one thread to do the bulk of the work. No idea if the underlying problem is simply difficult to solve with multiple threads or if it's just crippled to help sales of the paid versions.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2015, 12:59:16 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 22, 2014, 06:09:51 amQuote from: blueskull on November 22, 2014, 06:09:51 amSomehow, I see some conflicts and contradictions between both quoteblocks.