Upgraded SDG1000X Plus AWG's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 10:38:22 am
content: New 16bit 2ch models of 25,30 and 60 MHzWestern release 12 Nov 24Additional new featuresWebserver10 MHz Ref In/OutPRBS code types up to 40 MbpsPRBS3 ~ PRBS32 code output, with adjustable rate between 10-6 bpsTTL, LVCMOS, LVPECL and LVDS level output.Differential pair output.Datasheethttps://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_11_11/SDG1000X%20Plus_DataSheet_EN01A.pdfhttps://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sdg1000xp/https://siglentna.com/waveform-generators/sdg1000x-plus-series-function-arbitrary-waveform-generators/https://www.siglenteu.com/waveform-generators/sdg1000x-plus-series-function-arbitrary-waveform-generators/POI listIn-depth tests:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-the-new-siglent-sdg1022x-plus-output-100mhz!!/Webserver fundamentals:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/upgraded-sdg1000x-plus-awgs-coming/msg5819707/#msg5819707

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 10:55:55 am
content: As an SDG2000X owner, I would be looking forward to an SDG3000X...And this:QuoteYou should mark it in bold so that it doesn't cause irritation again.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 11:54:43 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 09, 2024, 10:55:55 amAs a not-yet owner of an AWG, I'm conflicted between the SDG1000X and the SDG2000X series.The SDG2000X series is getting a bit long in the tooth, but the 120 MHz reach and the longer memory are of some interest to me.I was even thinking of PMing tautech to get some advice - hoping in a "just wait a bit" answer.This new AWG makes me wonder if a refresh might be in the working for the SDG2000X too...I'll give it some months (I have a voucher to redeem at one online shop, but it's going to expire mid next year), then decide.I have translated the DS with DeepL, @tautech, can I post it here?(the © notice wouldn't seem to allow it)

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 12:21:46 pm
content: With 16bit, 8Mpts of memory and almost the same sample rate, the plus is almost the same as the 2000X, at least in this area - it will be interesting to see whether there will also be a plus version of it, in order to distance itself sufficiently not only in terms of frequency.The models seem a little strange.30Mhz and then a jump to 60Mhz, that's clear.But 25Mhz....

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 01:03:37 pm
content: According to the data sheet, the square wave rise/fall time is 11ns. In the version without “Plus” it was around 4.2ns.Is that the “price” for 16bit?Sorry for a noob question.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 08:44:47 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on June 09, 2024, 01:03:37 pmNo.SDG2000X is also 16bit with comparable rise/fall times.

author: gf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 09:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on June 09, 2024, 01:03:37 pmDoes it also have the "Special circuit for Square wave function, can generate Square waves up to 60 MHz with jitter less than 300 ps+0.05 ppm of period"?[ Without special circuitry, using only DDS or EasyPulse, a jitter-free, low-overshoot, arbitrary frequency square wave with a rise time of 4.2 ns is IMO not feasible at a sample rate of only 150 MSa/s. ]

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 09:50:03 pm
content: I guess Siglent moves from the old Blackfin-based architecture to more modern silicon. It's very well possible that they use the same ZYNQ-based "compute module" that they installed in the SDG6000X (and some other of their gear) -- at least, they already ported all the AWG firmware to that platform and could re-use it in their re-vamped entry level AWG(s). Which absolutely makes sense from a business point of view. Very likely they will also release an SDG2000X Plus some time soon.I hope upon this supposed "unification" of their "small" AWGs, they will have another look at the firmware and take care of several user complaints and suggestions for improvement...Attachment: Photo of ZYNQ compute module.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 11:53:30 pm
content: Sharp observations Tom.Certainly that exact module is used in other devices and one I have here is from SSA+/SVA analyzers.The webserver is an interesting addition for SDG1000X+ and looking at this SVA PCB it would seem support is totally from these processor modules which makes me wonder why it hasn't already been implemented in SDG6000X as they would only require mouse support as they are already a touch display device.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 01:03:17 am
content: Does the encoder at least work, or do I need to treat it like a princess? Work meaning it always increments when turning one direction and decrements for the opposite direction. It updates without missing or stalling. I would actually want to be able to use it like the encoders on every other bit of equipment I have.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 07:33:52 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 10, 2024, 01:03:17 amReally, this old hardy annual from you Joe ?How could we even know as no one in the west has even seen it or has any knowledge of its design other than what we have recently found online.And I don't even have a crystal ball, do you ?Although I might get a chance to use one in August when I visit HQ, do you need me to abuse the encoder and report back ?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 09:00:17 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on June 09, 2024, 11:54:43 amYes to get the most out of Siglent DSO's Bode Plot feature the 120 MHz capable model is the one to go for.QuoteSDG1000X+ should be out by then although I have no inside info ..... as yet.HQ are on Dragon boat festival holidays until tomorrow.QuoteGo for it !What © notice ?

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 10:29:55 am
content: Thanks for your answers, tautech!Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2024, 09:00:17 amAttached to this post. Being automatically translated, it contains some peculiar language (judder for jitter etc...) and some blank pages.I did not cleain it up in any way.The notice at the end of the document states:QuoteOh well, I'll throw you under the bus if Siglent complains

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 12:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2024, 09:00:17 amCan confirm this, works seamlessly with LAN connection. Now maybe Siglent will allow the Bode Plot to 200~500MHz with capable DSO and AWGBest,

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 01:52:04 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2024, 07:33:52 amI was hoping the person marketing their equipment would know something basic like this. If not, would know who to ask.There is no need to abuse it at all. I just want to know if it works with normal use.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 03:25:48 pm
content: I think Rob should abuse it and see how well it works. Why not?

author: Hexley
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 04:29:19 pm
content: The SDG1000X Plus datasheet shows maximum frequency of the square wave as 20 MHz. Seems to apply to all models. I guess this follows in the footsteps of the SDG2000X, which also has a fixed maximum frequency for the square wave across all models (25 MHz), per its data sheet.This is a downgrade in performance from the original SDG1000X, which had maximum square wave frequencies of 30 MHz or 60 MHz, for the SDG1032X and SDG1062X, respectively.That square wave bandwidth on the original SDG1000X always seemed like a unique selling point to me.

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 04:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: Hexley on June 10, 2024, 04:29:19 pmWith 11ns rise/fall time probably not even the 20MHz look good.I don't quite understand that. My cheap scope has an AWG with < 5ns rt.Why is that worse than the SDG1000X?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 05:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on June 10, 2024, 12:48:41 pmI once thought that we had already discussed the topic of “more” with the conclusion that 120Mhz is already ambitious.And that it could become disruptive/lossy above that.But of course, I would also like 500Mhz.I also found the specs description of the Lecroy-branded SDS2000XPlus quite exciting:Quotehttps://www.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/t3dso2000-series-oscilloscopes

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 06:04:43 pm
content: I wonder if their contract with LeCroy has anything do with the limitation.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: mawyatt on June 10, 2024, 12:48:41 pmWell high high would you wanna go ?SDG6000X models certainly plug and play with Siglent Bode plot DSO's but even the 200 MHz model is ~$1500.At that level of investment to provide FRA and Phase measurements the ~$1600 SVA1015X comes into play and pushes capability to 1.5 GHz ......in a single instrument !And with analyzer capability too !

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 10, 2024, 03:25:48 pmLittle more advanced in usage methodology than seeing how fast I can spin an encoder.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:25:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2024, 08:05:57 pm🤣

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:35:26 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 10, 2024, 07:33:52 amYes please. It's really annoying the way it behaves in the SDG1000X.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:54:25 pm
content: What exactly is wrong with it?I usually set the frequency I need via the keypad, for example.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:59:05 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 10, 2024, 08:54:25 pmLikewise but not always.I commonly use < and > to select the exact digit to change then use the encoder. < Quickandaccurate.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 09:02:31 pm
content: This makes me so curious that I'm going to use the SDG1062X at work tomorrow.Maybe I'll make a clip of it.I don't remember any problems with the encoder wheel.Maybe I've forgotten about it, we'll see.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 09:05:52 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 10, 2024, 09:02:31 pmWithconsideredanddeliberateuse the encoder works fine.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 10:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 10, 2024, 08:54:25 pmSome times (quite often actually) I need to manually sweep through a frequency range.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2024, 11:12:44 pm
content: I also use it to find a resonance point, for example.But in my case we're talking about maybe +/-50Hz and slow "start-up", which has never been a problem with the SDG1062X.But there are supposed to be people who turn the encoder as if it wasn't smart and then complain that not every turn is acknowledged immediately.Nobody can tell me that they are doing a serious task at that very moment.I can't take that seriously.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 10:51:49 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 13, 2024, 11:12:44 pmYou don't have to. I'm just sharing my personal experience. It's not a secret that the encoder on the SDG1000X sucks

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 01:21:30 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 13, 2024, 11:12:44 pmBy "smart" you mean that the encoder response accelerates when you turn it faster? I only have an SDG2000X -- on that one, there is no dynamic acceleration, and I think I like it that way: One encoder detent equals one audible click equals one step up or down on the numerical digit. Is the SDG1000X encoder implemented differently?I do notice that the SDG2000X encoder starts to miss steps when I turn it a bit faster. Which is not an entirely irrelevant scenario in my use: Say I expect the need to "tune up" slightly, e.g. to find a resonance, and then find that I am still further off than I thought. Rather than changing the cursor to a more significant digit, I just give the encoder a turn or two, which I can do blindly (while looking at the scope). In that case the encoder response becomes spotty, quite noticeable from the irregular audible clicks.It seems that Siglent took a very conservative approach with the encoder debouncing. Still better than toolittledebouncing, with the encoder making extra steps or moving backwards! But based on the experience with encoders in other products or my own designs, I think that they could have found a better balance.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 02:39:01 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 14, 2024, 01:21:30 pmAt least with the one we bought for a trial, it will randomly change directions.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 04:33:12 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 14, 2024, 02:39:01 pmOuch... So they should probably copy the conservative debouncing approach from the SDG2000X.The SDG2000X had issues with bouncing buttons in its earlier firmware versions, which Siglent fixed with an update a few years back. I don't recall any changes to the encoder behaviour, but maybe that was improved at the same time?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 06:03:02 pm
content: Guessing that it can't be corrected with firmware or they would have addressed it. Personally, I really like having an encoder for a UI and will frequently put it to use. I'm not a fan of the detent but I can't overlook the fact the settings are not smooth.In this case, the product didn't cost much. I have asked about other higher cost Siglent products having this potential problem but this thread reflects the typical response I receive.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2024, 10:03:40 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 14, 2024, 01:21:30 pmDeepl translation error...QuoteYes, "debouncing" is a matter in itself, how far you want to go.If the "dead time" until a pending signal is regarded as a "real" one is too short, you get the notorious jumps.If you choose it too long, the user has the feeling that he can turn "forever" until something happens.Although I personally have no problem with the latter.Now you can't expect high-quality encoders with the cheap SDG1000X and SDG2000X classes, although that would be an interesting separate topic in itself, how high-quality is it, in terms of being as bounce-free as possible.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 01:17:15 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 14, 2024, 10:03:40 pmBeing an integral part of the UI, I certainly expect them to work, regardless of the cost. I has asked if the higher end products were any better or not but so far, I have not got a clear answer.I picked up a cheap hand held multi-band radio a few months back (Tecsun PL-990). It uses encoders for tuning. I was expecting it to have problems out of the box but it has worked flawless. I can turn the tuning as fast or slow as I want.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 06:25:15 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on June 14, 2024, 10:03:40 pmAs if the encoder of the SDG6000X is any better...All these small AWGs (form-factor wise) share the same "mechanical" hardware and a very similar, almost identical user interface. And IMO, this leaves quite some margin for improvement.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 08:51:26 am
content: QuoteI didn't have the 6000s in mind at the time, but yes, they are also part of it because the "X" at the end indicates the cost effective series, be it for generators, oscilloscopes, analyzers...etc.

author: slavoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2024, 06:45:40 pm
content: I own a 1032X and now 2042X. The encoders works exactly the same. They do not change in direction, but are...sluggish. If you pass a certain rotation speed (which is low in this case) there is no more response improvement. Another issue - instant quick rotation of the knob gives almost no response. It will sometimes jumponevalue when I go fast half a turnThere is nothing wrong with the encoder itself, its the software handling issue.//Regarding the new Plus version, I didn't think I would pay so much attention to it, but the new pseudo-black color palette from Siglent looks awful. It's as if they ran out of dye. The SDS800X HD looks the worst.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2024, 10:00:08 am
content: Do we know when the new AWG will be out and cost?Thoughts on upgradeablility of 25 MHZ version?Given my amateur student status, I may just get the current one, but I do suffer FOMO.Thanks!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 03:48:46 am
content: I hope to check one out in detail tomorrow while at HQ for a couple of days.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 08:17:10 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 10, 2024, 03:25:48 pmDone so today and with prejudice and encoder works magnificent no matter how hard you abuse it.Siglent have done a great job with SDG1000X Plus.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 09:12:28 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 12, 2024, 08:17:10 amAny hint from HQ on when it will be available outside of China (EU, in particular)?

author: jasonquin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2024, 05:44:45 am
content: Got it yesterday.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 14, 2024, 12:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: jasonquin on August 13, 2024, 05:44:45 amCan you give the approximate cost?Thanks,Dewey

author: jasonquin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 02:44:32 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on August 14, 2024, 12:08:55 pmFor the 25MHz model, it cost me 2288 RMB (320 USD).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 02:47:59 am
content: Quote from: jasonquin on August 15, 2024, 02:44:32 amNot coming to the West and will be a prohibited Siglent export. < This directly from the last few days @ HQ.Edit to clarify, SDG1025X Plus will be a China only model so OP updated.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:16:48 am
content: Quote from: watchmaker on August 14, 2024, 12:08:55 pmQuote from: jasonquin on August 15, 2024, 02:44:32 amThe 25 MHz model is only for online sales.And 30 MHz model is about 400E so it come close to SDG 2000X which can go up to 120 MHz. In my opinion it does not worth, especially if Tautech said that will be reserved for China market so you need to buy from grey market.Better go with the 2000X which is the best AWG on the market for his price.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 08:23:42 am
content: Quote from: skander36, snipped to smithereens on August 15, 2024, 08:16:48 amIthinktautech was specifically referring to the 25 MHz model (highlighted in the quote), but up to him to clarify (thanks!), ISTR the same applies for the regular 1032X.On the other point, it all depends on the price, but I generally agree.

author: hpw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2024, 01:21:25 pm
content: I do not know why only up to view 35MHz, as Audio ADC/DAC requires up to 100MHz square waves clocks and on the other channel a very low THD audio signals.Supporting wide digital squares levels as predefined is a nice to have otherwise at first to trimm

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 03:33:15 am
content: Western release of 3x SDG1000X Plus models, 25, 30 and 60 MHz.OP updated.Datasheethttps://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_11_11/SDG1000X%20Plus_DataSheet_EN01A.pdf

author: markus_jlrb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 03:24:31 pm
content: >to clarify, SDG1025X Plus will be a China only model so OP updated.Played with this device at Electronica2024 in Munich today.The SDG10xxX Plus will be soled in Europa too. 16Bit DAC.Price located a bit above 300$ for the starter model (25MHz).Markus

author: Ulrich.G
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 12:38:20 pm
content: Batronix has the 30Mhz & 60Mhz models already in stockhttps://www.batronix.com/versand/siglent/SDG1000XPlus.html

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 06:10:10 pm
content: Hi Tautech,If you already have the Plus version of the 1000 series, can you do this test set-up?Here I used the SDG 1032X, at 1MHz and a signal level of 999-mV and 1.1V-PP.A short good 50-Ohm coax cable and a good 50-Ohm BNC in line terminator.Then I show two pictures here below, one is at 999mV TT in 50-Ohm and the other is at 1.1V in 50-Ohm.This shows the differences in the output amps.The rise and fall times are around 3.5nSec.I would like to see this measurement repeated on the Plus models, please.In both measurements, I use alternating triggering so that both flanks come into view at the same time.This is the 1MHz signal of 999mV (just before switching output)The scope is SDS HD 12 Bit, with 500Mhz bandwidth.First the 999mV picture almost no abberations verry good!.And this is ad 1.1V-PP Output Level, not bad but good be a little better..So I am interested in the quality of pulse abberations.If it is good enough from the new model I will purchase such a generator for my second workbench and then I can also use it for Bode Plost with the Siglent scope I already have there.In any case, thank you very much!Bram

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 07:59:47 pm
content: Quote from: blackdog on November 13, 2024, 06:10:10 pmWon't have any until next order....next year ETA.3.5ns not possible with 1kX Plus.

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 08:42:25 pm
content: Hi tautech,If the flank steepness are really 10nsec from the Plus model, then I see no reason to buy a Plus model from the 1000 series... and 446,49 Euro's!The only reason stopping me from buying another SDG1032X, is the stupendous operation of the encoder of this series of generators, but enough has already been said about that.Thank you for the reply!Kind regards,Bram

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2024, 08:07:52 pm
content: In depth tests:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-the-new-siglent-sdg1022x-plus-output-100mhz!!/Added to OP POI list.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2024, 06:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 09, 2024, 10:38:22 amThere are not many affordable (new) instruments on the market that can generate PRBS signals. Having built myown PRBS generatorlast year, I am excited to see this function now being added to this popular series of devices. But the "adjustable rate between 10-6 bps" in this quote kept me puzzled.I now think where this comes from. According to the datasheet, the rate can be set"between 10-6bps and 40 Mbps". That first scientific notation somehow must got degenerated into the text in the quote aboveI guess this 10-6bps setting is included for people with a lot of patience. If I'm not mistaken, that is one bit every million seconds, so 11.6 days per bit. To play back a single, regular PRBS PN15 sequence (which has a length of 215-1 bits) would take 1040 years, not to mention that you at least need a couple of these sequences in order to do things such as locating bit errors....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2024, 07:25:41 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on December 25, 2024, 06:25:41 pmBack when I copy/pasted from Gurgle Translate little things might go wrong.....Now we have an English datasheet which does indeed state 40 Mbps.https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_11_11/SDG1000X%20Plus_DataSheet_EN01A.pdf

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2025, 05:33:03 pm
content: Last week, my son dropped by with his brand new Siglent SDG 1000X Plus, so we decided to do a deep dive and compare it with the 1000X and the 2000X.Actually, there were a lot of things to look at: several new waveforms, new output signal modes, some hardware changes (in I/O), a webserver, and at least 22 areas in which the performance of the new unit differed (usually improved ;-) from its predecessor, the 1000X.But there were quite some surprises too… One is that the PRBS, the new waveform Siglent is putting quite central in its advertisement, does not seem to work (well, the jury is out – let me know if you manage to get it working with a PBRS analyser…). There were also several other surprises, like the Siglent implementation of the new output signal modes, the vastly increased startup time, changes in the user interface, issues with the screenprint function, and more.I still think it's an interesting device to buy (like the other SDG models), but...I summarised everything in a video.Enjoy!

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2025, 05:52:22 pm
content: And not to forget, the black cat made a guest appearance.Great video.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 08:20:34 am
content: Tautech (on YouTube):QuoteThat is great. Can you also where the link, or tell us which documentation provides this link?Also, is it possible to install EasyWave X without installing a (new) NI VISA driver? Some of us will have good reasons to do so (like some changes to Windows configuration that the package requires - see video - or not to mess up an already complicated and delicate VISA configuration on an existing machine, using VISA drivers of other makers). I think many of us will be happy just to use EasyWave X to create a file and bring it to the signal generator using a USB thumb drive, and do not need/want to use a VISA connection at all.Tautech (on YouTube):QuoteI do hope so. For this video alone, I made some 50 screenshots (got them on my computer), involving 16*50=800 clicks or wheel turns on the three SDGs

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 08:46:32 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 01, 2025, 08:20:34 amSee attachment.Put 'NI-VISA Run-Time Engine 5.4' into a search engine, download and install.Eg.https://colab.research.google.com/drive/1TegzwxibejLtQTE5HnltRq0AYjUclqkLQuoteYep current screenshot implementation is pitiful !Itmustbe improved !

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 10:15:35 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 01, 2025, 08:20:34 amHello Rudi!Siglent officially support industry standard NI VISA.Other VISA layers might work. Or shall I say should.I know I had Keysight IO Libraries on one PC (because of Keysight GPIB adapter) and that enumerated devices normally.I am not saying it works 100% because I did not stress test it. Just noted it seemed to work.As for PRBS sequence, would you be willing to do experiment ?Would you try to invert the the output and then try the sequence?Just curious.... :-)I don't have BERT tester or something that would easily check if PRBS sequence is generated in proper order...Best,Siniša.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 10:27:02 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on February 01, 2025, 10:15:35 amFYIFor connectivity drivers only NIVISA Runtime is required and is all I have ever used....for many years.No need to install 500+ MB package one does not need.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 12:38:51 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on December 25, 2024, 06:25:41 pmRigol DG800 (none-"Pro" Model) ?

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 02:12:07 pm
content: Dear Siniša ,As for PRBS sequence, would you be willing to do experiment ? Would you try to invert the the output and then try the sequence?Just curious.... :-)I actually already did so.. the Anritsu MG3700A I used has a data invert and clock invert. Tried both. Als shifted the clock from -180 to 189 degrees, to prevent that data s&h was exactly at the transition point. Alas, still not working.We keep looking!Best, Rudi

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 05:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 01, 2025, 02:12:07 pmRudi,Thank you for the response.. I am not surprised you tried already...There are holidays in China now...After they return, I will ask them to verify why PRBS sequence is not generating standard LFSR sequence according to selected polynomes.I will ask for this to be verified for SDG6000X and 7000A too... Just in case.I am sure it is something that will be easily fixed by FW update.Best,Siniša

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 05:51:05 pm
content: I promised to share the PN9 code that can be loaded as an ARB waveform into a Siglent SDG waveform generator. I tested this on the 1000X, 1000X plus, and 2000X, but I think it should work on any SDG model. The code is just below 16k in length, so it fits even in the ‘smallest’ SDG signal generators. The code was succesfgully tested on Anritsu MG3700A and on Fireberd 6000A BER testers.The ZIP contains four files (plus this manual):EEVBLOG post with PN9 code.rtfThis is an EEVBLOG message I posted on September 03, 2023 which contains a ‘good’ PN9 code (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-prbs-pn9-pn11-or-pn15-bit-sequences/). Its length is (2^n)-1 so 511 bit.SDG-PN9-16352-v03.csvThis is a Comma Separated Values file in the SDG template format containing that PN9 code. Not that simply making a pattern of 511 values does not work, the SDG will just create a sawvave from point to point ;-) Instead, in this file, each PN9 value is repeated 32 times so the total length is So the sequence is 511*32=16,352 bits. This way, it just fits in the 16k limits of the ‘smallest’ SDG signal generators.SDG-PN9-16352-v03.binThis is the binary file that the SDG created by itself the moment the previous .CSV file is imported. I share it because of you use the .XML settings file, then it loads the .BIN, not the .CSV.SDG-PN9-16352-v03.XMLSDG-PN9-16352-v03.XMLThis is an SDG settings file in ‘readable’ Extensible Markup Language. This file loads the PN9 file in Channel 1, a square wave for clock into Channel B, a frequency for Channel 2 that is 511 times that of Channel 1 (after all, the ARB file contains 511 bit positions!), sets TTL compatible levels for both channels, and creates a Sync output each time the PN9 pattern starts again.Instructions on how to use:A). Copy the .BIN and the .XML file to the local memory of the SDG using its built-in file manager.• Please note that within the file manager, you need to select file type ‘’State’ to see the XLS and file type ‘Data’ to see the .BIN.• Make sure the name of the copied file is not something like xxxx_copy1.xxx, that sometimes seems to happen. If so, just remove the “_copy1” part.B) Turn on Channel 1 and Channel 2 outputs. Now you should get a 511 kHz PN9 code on Output 1, and the 511 kHz clock on Output 2. You should also get the pattern sync out at the BNC AUX connector on the back of the signal generator.C). Connect a scope to the three outputs, and you should see something like the screenshot below. Use the Sync output to trigger the scope. Connect a BER tester to the outputs, and the code should be recognised.D). If the BER tester does not recognise the pattern, use the Channel 2 phase parameter to shift the clock signal relative to the data signal. (I did not have to do that myself, but the tester might see the clock transition going high at the same time as the data transition going high).E). If you want a PRBS of another frequency, then remember to increase or decrease the set frequency of the two channels to the same degree. Channel 1 and Channel 2 should maintain a 1:511 ratio!(Hope that I did not make any error somewhere... If so, let me know, and we can probably fix itEnjoy!Rudi’s Electronics Labhttps://www.youtube.com/@rudiselectronicslab861

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 09:03:02 am
content: Dear Siniša,QuoteLook forwards to hear updates on this.Normally, generators that generate or analyze PRBS patterns are designed to comply with international standards such as ITU/CCITT Rec. O.151, O.152 and O. 153 (some instruments’ documentation refer to CCITT V.52, but this one was replaced by CCITT Rec O. 153). Indeed, my R&S SMIQ and my TTC FIREBERD6000A, in their documentation, refer to compliance with the above standards.CCITT Rec O. 153 includes specifications for a PN9 code and notes that the pattern may be generated in a nine-stage shift-register whose 5th and 9th stage outputs are added in a modulo-two addition stage, and the result is fed back to the input of the first stage. (See an example of such a design attached, from the SMIQ manual). The standard requires, among other things, that the pattern includes one sequence of 9 consecutive ones and that the longest sequence of zeros is 8 (in a non-converted signal version).The PN9 code I used in my ARB file (above) and used for DIY PN9 generator (seehttps://youtu.be/kVQ1luBDxFY?si=BjXYPgj9dBVp0qkH) is the same as the one generated by the R&S SMIQ and I know it is identical to the one generated by the Wandel & Goltermann SF-60. Therefore, it is CCITT Rec O. 153 compliant.Since the new Siglent 1000X Plus I tested went back to my son, I cannot analyse its sequence right now. But when I have it around again, I’d be happy to do so.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 10:44:46 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 02, 2025, 09:03:02 amI will let you know...It'll be some time...I actually like ITU-T 0.150 (05/96) better for explanation of sequences. All in one place.. 151 and 152 specify BERT sequences for faster data rates.. IIRC...Back in the days of testing slow serial links we didn't call it PRBS-9 it was simply called 511 sequence... There were small portable testers that could only test with 511 sequence. I believe it is used up to 14400 baud....Been a long time since I have been involved in that .. When 19200 Baud 4-wire Motorola modems were hi-tech.I would addend to your statement that: "Normally generators of PRBS patterns follow ITU 0.150 if they are used for the purposes explained in ITU 0.150, i.e. telecom testing.."Fun fact, to be mathematically correct, these are not only PRBS sequences possible. There are dozens of other types.ITU chose LFSR based sequences that are classified as linear recurring maximal length PRBS sequences because those are easily implemented in hardware and fulfil required randomness criteria .It also works well for the purpose of creating test signals to train data link. It was cheap, cheerful and worked well for the purpose. What is not to like?For other purposes (like spread spectrum hopping for instance) you can use other sequences that are also technically PRBS but with different characteristics..Best,Siniša

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 11:24:57 am
content: Dear Siniša,I just looked at ITU O.150 (I think it is the letter "O", refering to the O-series, rather than digit '0'!)That is indeed a nice document, as it includes a lot of information in the 151, 152, and 153 recommendations, as well as additional useful text.For instance, I am just reading in Section 3:"[a 2^n-1 pattern has] strings of n consecutive ZEROs (so-calledinverted signal) and n – 1 consecutive ONEs"In Section 5.1, on NP9 patterns, I read,"The sequence may be generated in a nine-stage shift register whose 5th and 9th stage outputs are added in a modulo-two addition stage, and the result is fed back to the input of the first stage. The sequence begins with the first ONE of 9 consecutive ONEs. [...] Longest sequence of zeros: 8 (non-inverted signal)."Indeed, the maximum number of one's and zero's was already noted in the FIREBERD600A manual I was reading:- PN9 is pseudorandom pattern with a maximum of 8 sequential zeros and 9 sequential ones.- PN11 is pseudorandom pattern with a maximum of 10 sequential zeros and 11 sequential ones.- PN15 is pseudorandom pattern with a maximum of 14 sequential zeros and 15 sequential ones.- PN20 is a pseudorandom pattern with a maximum of 19 sequential zeros and 20 sequential ones.... but I did not realise that these numbers were indeed by definition equal to (n-1) and (n).I find the ITU O.150 text on "(non) inverted signal" signal (abovce, underlined) a bit confusing, as it seems to refer one time to what an actual bit is (mark or space) and the other time sems to refer to an entire pattern being inverted. Anyway, many devices a function to invert the signal, so you can quickly check both.Best, Rudi

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 05:30:39 pm
content: Hi all,This weekend, I did a deep dive into the question of whether PRBS ‘works’ or not on the new Siglent SDG1000X Plus.In the video I did on this, I checked the actual code coming out of the SDG and compared it to shift register implementations and to other instruments, and also looked into the spectral properties of the PRBS of the SDG.And, I also show how you can implement a PBRS-9 shift register algorithm in Microsoft Excel in less than 90 secondsBottom line... In some way, there is a PRBS signal coming out of the SDG, but... Siglent, please change this and provide us with a firmware update!Anyway, the video is.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 07:57:35 am
content: Interesting stuff Rudi,Did you actually try out a Siglent VNA and measure it?Will try to replicate your procedure with my DG2052.In the meantime, I would propose the following:Keep this improper signal and add a submenu in the arb section called Standard PSBR and add signals to that based on a LFSR with a defined minimal plynominal, e.g. a list as describedhere.It is always good to have a signal that looks like something, but is not it exactly ;-).@Tautech could you contact Siglent HQ and inquire how (and why!) they implemented this functionality as it is now?

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 08:58:28 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9, heavily snipped by me on February 08, 2025, 05:30:39 pmNice description and introduction to PRBS, thank you!Just one nitpick: you repeatedly stated Siglent should use a LFSR implementation for the PRBS.Well, the produced sequence IS an LFSR one, and of the same Fibonacci family.It's just using a different, still maximum length, polynomial, x⁹+x⁴+1, instead of the more common x⁹+x⁵+1 - it's easy to verify with any online LFSR calculator/simulator or your spreadsheet.I had the suspect that was the issue since your first video, but here you have collected and shown the sequence, so I could check, thanks again.The 9 and 4 taps have no common factor, guaranteeingmaximum length(and the other properties).Note that O.150 states an implementation "may" use the 9-5 polynomial, that's the weakest recommendation one can read in a standard, and not binding in any way.That said, there are standard, and there arede factostandards and implementations which everyone should follow.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 09:16:39 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on February 09, 2025, 08:58:28 amI agree with your assesment.PRBS sequence they produce is valid, hence spectrum and balance is correct.For loopback testing and eye testing it is perfectly good sequence...But...De facto standards are just that, de facto standards.Not mandatory, but it is nice to comply because it makes engineers life easier.So it would interoperate with other equipment..I am going to discuss this with Siglent engineers and if there is no hard reason why sequence is such, i think they should use "the usual" polynomials...Just to play nice with other kids...And yes, @Rudi, VERY nice investigation...Best to all,Siniša

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 11:52:43 am
content: Please see my plea foraddingthe sequences for the usual poynomials, but alsokeeping the current implementationQuote from: 2N3055 on February 09, 2025, 09:16:39 am

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 12:07:02 pm
content: A look inside

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 02:44:50 pm
content: Dear all,A lot of interesting contributions this morning!After the suggestion on YouTube to try other seeds than '111111111', I realized that that was actually not the solution, but realized that it might be the used polynomial instead. While making and finalizing a video on this, others had already come to the same conclusion. Nice to see great minds on the forum!The video is here (and of course, I now added acknowledgments to @newoldbrain in this video for the first with this finding!)QuoteIf only I had one ;-)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 03:28:29 pm
content: As a side note, SDG7000A, supports user defined polynomials...Yes, I know, completely different class...

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 05:15:40 pm
content: QuoteOh, that is nice indeed. I recall I did look into both its data sheet and manual whenb I prepared my first video on the SDG1k+ and could not find this information. But I am now also checking the firmware release information, and see this was added in 1.1.1.33R1 (released on 11/06/2024).This firmware upgrade signals that people do care about PRBS implementation ;-)Do you know what the implementation was before the firmware allowed you to make choices? Is the regular ITU implementation or the one we now see in the SDG1k+ ?PS It would be nice if the Siglent User Manuals and Data Sheets would indicate with what firmware version they correspond. I seem to see that the codes on those documents relate to updates (for the 7000A, the latest user manual is EN01Eand the latest data sheet is EN01C. Both of these mention the 625MBs PRBS maximal speed, introduced in the firmware (released1.1.1.29R8 ). But to what precize version they correspond, I don't know. Other manufacturers are often explicit about this.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 05:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 09, 2025, 05:15:40 pmI don't know at this moment how it is implemented in 6000 and 7000A.As for mapping of datasheet,manual and FW releases, I am afraid other manufacturers are not very precise either.This is something that was communicated to Siglent.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 08:26:04 pm
content: QuoteIt's true that many more manufacturers could do a better job here. But fortunately, it is not rare either. Looking at my main set of main lab instruments, I note that for 8 instruments this information is provided, and 13 not (of which 6 Siglent devices...)And, really, it is not so hard to do this well, is it? Any reason why you would not do so?**** Observations ****Firmware version is clearly identified in the user manual (7 devices)• HP E6392A: “This manual applies directly to instruments with serial number prefix JP5MG, or firmware revision B.03.00 and above.”• R&S FPC1500: “The contents of this manual correspond to firmware version 1.50 and later.”• R&S RTB2004: This manual describes the following R&S®RTB2000 models with firmware version 2.4xx: R&S RTB2002 (1333.1005K02), R&S RTB2004 (1333.1005K04)• R&S AMU200A: This manual describes firmware version FW 3.20.286.xxx and later of the R&S SMU200A [...]• R&S NGE105B: “The contents of this manual correspond to firmware version 1.53 or higher.”• R&S CMU200: “This operating manual describes version V5.20 and higher of the R&S CMU base software[…]”• TTC FIREBERD 6000A: “This Reference Manual applies to all FIREBERD 6000 Communications Analyzers incorporating Software Revision L.”Firmware version is provided in the user manual but you have to look for it a bit (1 device):• SR&S SMIQ: “The current version (SIMQ firmware version 5.70 or higher)” (page 2.169)Firmware version is not at all identified in the user manual (13 devices)• R&S CMD52, 55• Anritsu MG3700A• EA PS 2042-20B• GW INSTEK GPM-8310• Keithley DMM6500• Keysight DSOX1204G• Racal 6103• Siglent SDG1032X• Siglent SDG1064X Plus• Siglent SDG2042X• Siglent SDL1020X-E• Siglent SDM3045X• Siglent SDS2104X PLUS

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2025, 08:35:52 pm
content: That is because you have a lot of R&S instruments and old HP.Keysight does not do it anymore.My pet peeve is when document not having publishing date, just version.As I said, it was communicated.I presume you understand quite well that organising optimum document/knowledge/info flow is not actually trivial...

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2025, 08:13:26 pm
content: I might be onto something on what might be happening in the SDG1000X+ FW, or most probably VHDL/verilog FPGA code.Give me a couple of hours to verify (or falsify) my hypothesis on my generator.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2025, 08:25:14 pm
content: OK, looking forward

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2025, 10:07:30 pm
content: OK, here is the result of the investigation.The hunch:Due to the way a LFSR works, the number of zeros following the maximum ones run is determined by the exponent, ie., position of the first "tap" starting from X⁰ == 1.E.g., for the PRBS-9, with the standard X⁹ + X⁵ + 1 polynomial, the expected number of zeros is five.The SDG1kX+, instead, produces four zeros, hinting to a X⁹ + X⁴ + 1 poly.BUT! 9-5 = 4. That's what you would get by reversing the tap order - BTW, much easier to inadvertently do in verilog than in C, IMO.VerificationI verified whether that was the case for all the de facto standard polynomial (from Wikipedia, the standard, or any other source):Code:PRBS7 = x⁷ + x⁶ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ7 = x⁷ + x + 1PRBS9 = x⁹ + x⁵ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ9 = x⁹ + x⁴ + 1PRBS11 = x¹¹ + x⁹ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ11 = x¹¹ + x² + 1PRBS13 = x¹³ + x¹² + x² + x + 1 Not useful for this quick test!PRBS15 = x¹⁵ + x¹⁴ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ15 = x¹⁵ + x + 1PRBS20 = x²⁰ + x¹⁷ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ20 = x²⁰ + x³ + 1PRBS23 = x²³ + x¹⁸ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ23 = x²³ + x⁵ + 1PRBS31 = x³¹ + x²⁸ + 1 ᑫЯᗺƧ31 = x³¹ + x³ + 1NOTE: I didnotcheck that the full sequence matched the reversed polynomial, just that the first zero runs matched the expectations.Results:PRBS-7, tested at 1 MbpsNot off to good start. A sequence of 3 zeros does not match either polynomial.PRBS-9, tested at 1 MbpsThis is a positive, as we know by now!PBRS-11, still 1 MbpsAnother positive.PBRS-13NOT tested, as the run is of length one in both directions!PRBS-15, 1 MbpsAnother positivePRBS-20, 1 MbpsThis one is a bitinconclusive, O.151 gives the poly I used - a positive, but O.153 suggests the reversed one, as does Wikipedia.I don't have the spec at hand now, I might need to check at work tomorrow - if I can get them.I'd still count this as a confirmation.PRBS-23, Now at 10 Mbps, to get a faster trigger.Confirmed.PRBS-31, 40 Mbps, maximum for the SDG1kX+Yup!Conclusion:Of course, the hypothesis can be thoroughly confirmed only by a deeper check (wondering: is it enough to checknbits after the maximum one run? Possibly yes), but, with the exception of PRBS-7, a complete outlier, I'm strongly inclined to believe that a bit index reversal is what happened.What do you think?EtA: Ihatethis forum attachment mechanism...

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 08:00:16 am
content: @newbrain,Seems you nailed it!This strongly suggests that Siglent did not consciously use other polynomials - having some reasons to do so - but instead made a programming mistake (and never actually tested whether the generated code was the one they thought they had made).Time permitting, I will try to capture the bit sequence for all code lengths from the SDG 1000X Plus. Initially, I was facing some limitations in that the R&S RTB oscilloscope I use to do parallel decoding was only saving relatively short decode files to its memory. But now I found that using SCPI, I can get large data sets (over 600,000 values) without problems, just with some patience (see another threathere).Then we can compare the Siglent bit patterns with those of others.I know there are several PRBS code generating examples in C++ to be found on the internet, but they are for specific PRBS lengths and specific polynomials. I'm not much of a programmer, but would someone have a C++ code that would allow the user to set a PRNS length and the desired set of (two or four) polynomials, and then it generates that data? One that would run in an online C++ compiler, likeProgramiz? That would be awesome; then we could compare all scenarios.Best Rudi

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 08:26:05 am
content: For python code see thislink.And java implementation ishere

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 08:49:33 am
content: Or this:https://pylfsr.github.io/For a quick check, there's also this online calculator:https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/linear-feedback-shift-registerIt's of course not that practical to generate very large codes, but I'm pretty sure one does not need to check more than the first n bits, as at that point all the taps "have had their say".The initial state needs to be set to all ones (e.g., for PRBS-9: 111'111'111), and the so called "connection coefficients" are entered with the LSB first, from x to xn(e.g. for the standard PRBS-9: 000'010'001 with a one in the fifth position, for X⁵ and a one in the ninth position for x⁹).I was not able to find a polynomial for PRBS-13 that matched Siglent's output, but did not try many combinations. I must say, though, that it's neither the straight or the reversed one for some common definitions I've found.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 09:02:41 am
content: Finally got my paws on 2 of these today and they both sold to the same client the night before !As an EEVblog viewer he said to hang onto one until next week so to get some content about them uploaded.Thanks Ben.A wee look at the webserver Instrument control page with a Windoze screenshot and another using the virtual button to save a screenshot to your browsers Download folder.As attached.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 05:06:49 pm
content: Quote from: newbrain on February 11, 2025, 08:49:33 amFound!It'sX¹³ + X⁴ + X³ + X + 1, still a maximally long LFSR, no resemblance to any I (nay, Google and Copilot) was able to find.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 05:39:06 pm
content: If this SDG can generate a sync pulse at the start of a PRBS sequence?

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 05:58:21 pm
content: QuoteNo. For reasons unknown to me, the sync out via the AUX connector is disabled for PRBS mode. If you have a scope at the receiving end, you may use minimal pulse width to find the sequence start (since, for instance, a PBRS-15 code has to start with 15 ones in sequence, so you can search for a pulse within that length).If you load a PBRS pattern into the generator's ARB memory, however, the sync out via the AUX connector works, and you have your sync pulse. And then you can use the second channel to create a clock sync. See my video on this for details.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 05:59:35 pm
content: QuoteNice job, and good to see all this advanced reverse engineering

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 06:12:40 pm
content: All this PRBS brings back very old memories of our early high speed digital comms work. We were developing an early rendition of GMSK MW System for use in a heavy multi-path environment. We didn't have any high speed BERT equipment, so as usual we developed our own. Probably should start a dedicated thread if anyone is interested.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/early-digital-comms-concept-based-upon-gmsk/Best,

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 08:14:03 pm
content: Hi sfs1,Can you tell us the type number of the DAC and opamp's used in the output amps?Thanks in advance,Bram

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2025, 10:57:10 pm
content: Opamps are ADA4937-1 (differential transimpedance amp) LMH6702 (low level driver) and THS3491 (high level driver). DAC most likely is an AD9122.Offset voltage driver not identified, S/H opamps for generation of internal control voltages are TLC272 (or equivalent).

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 08:03:02 am
content: In the attached ZIP you will find both TXT and CSV files for PRBS3 thru PRBS17 as produced by the Siglent SDG1000X Plus (current firmware;1.01.01.33R81P.01.01.01.42R2, Release Date 30/8/2024). There is also an Excel spreadsheet, but it only contains PRBS3 thru PRBS15 - longer sequences do not fit in that format ;-)These sequences can be used to test hypotheses about how they were generated :-)I did this as carefully as I could and think no errors are present, but it was fairly late last night, and I still want to double-check one day by capturing once more.I later still want to add PRBS-18. Longer codes are not possible to sample with my current setup: I sample with an R&R RTB oscilloscope using the clocked parallel bus decoder and the transfer via SCPI. the maximum number of values I can capture that way is 600,000. We need to capture slightly over two full sequences (to be sure one is entirely present from the 1111… seed up to the end), and preferably like 4 or 5 sequences (to do robustness checks). So, there are limits as to the maximum sequence length that can be acquired this way.Best, Rudi

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 08:21:01 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 12, 2025, 08:03:02 amPlease note the newer firmware shipped in the units just received:https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG1000X_Plus_P42R2_EN.zipTell us, when did your son get this unit and what supplier sold it without being updated to the latest FW version ?Note the release date: 2024-12-06

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 10:09:39 am
content: Quote from: tautech on February 12, 2025, 08:21:01 amJust to make it clear, my tests were done with the latest FW, which was is the one my unit (from Eleshop ) came with.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 01:27:56 pm
content: My tests and data capturing were done with the latest SDG1000X Plus firmware (1P.01.01.01.42R2, Release Date 30/8/2024).That's the same version Tautech shared today.My apologies that I accidentally mentioned the wrong firmware version this morning (1.01.01.33R8), which does not even exist for the SDG1000X Plus, but is the latest firmware for its predecessor, the SDG1000X. Will correct it in my earlier post.Best, Rudi

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 03:13:49 pm
content: Hi,I received my SDG1062X-Plus around December 15, 2024 and it was delivered by Eleshop Netherlands.My firmware is now P42R2 and in guess this is the firmware the generator was delivered with.I do not remember changing the firmware, I was quite busy in December...Kind regards,Bram

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 03:15:43 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on February 11, 2025, 10:57:10 pmWould be interesting to compare the chip signal line up with the new 1000 series, the 4000 and 6000 series!!Best

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 03:24:02 pm
content: This whole thread made me buy a SDG1062X+ (yes, I'll know a Rigol fanboy converting or at least eating it both ways) to Siglent.The purchase was made at Batronix last week and was delivered with firmware V1P.1.1.1.42R2.Quote from: blackdog on February 12, 2025, 03:13:49 pm

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2025, 04:57:34 pm
content: Quote from: TurboTom on February 11, 2025, 10:57:10 pmIt is

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2025, 08:55:04 pm
content: To test a bit of how PRBS patterns look like for different polynomials, I created an Excel spreadsheet that can create patterns from PN3, PN4,..., PN16 using any polynomial.Feel free to play around... Just enter the code length and the two or four polynomials you want to use, and there you go.I also included the common polynomial sets as examples (like those found in ITU Rec. O.150)And you can also easily copy any of your own patterns into the sheet and check whether they correspond to generated patterns.And ... let me know should you encounter any mistakes or so...Generate PN3 to PN16 pattern for any polynomial v09 .xlsxUpdate: PS There is a small error in above spreadsheet: it shows one pattern a bit too much. To correct that, put "=2^B4-1" in cell B10. When I was trying to make it look better and easier to use, I made a mistake....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 07:09:04 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 01, 2025, 08:20:34 amConfirmation that USB screenshot handling is to be improved.A couple of changes are coming but most notable is when a USB stick is inserted it becomes the default screenshot save path.Unknown release date.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2025, 01:09:12 pm
content: [ Specified attachment is not available ] [ Specified attachment is not available ] [ Specified attachment is not available ]NEWBRAIN:QuoteUsing the Excel spreadsheet I shared yesterday, I now checked out polynomials that conform to the pattern observed at the output of the SDG1000X Plus.In most cases, the working hypothesis by NEWBRAIN (“taps 2 and further are in reverse order”) holds. But, as NEWBRAIN already noted, this is not the case for NP7, and I now show that NP12, NP13 and NP14 are also different. Interestingly, NP7, one of the four-polynomial codes, does follow the working hypothesis.Whatever the exact reason, I think there is now little doubt that there is SOME programming mistake in the SDG1000X Plus. And perhaps also in the SDG6000X and possibly other models.[ Specified attachment is not available ]PS There is a small error in yesterday's spreadsheet: it shows one pattern a bit too much. To correct that, put "=2^B4-1" in cell B10. When I was trying to make it look better and easier to use, I made a mistake....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 07:03:03 am
content: Webserver remote control functionality.A series of screenshots exploring operation without the front panel controls and with a PC mouse finds this mode of control quite intuitive.Basic functionality overview.Firstly, any Parameter changes are made by first bringing up the menu by clicking on Feq, Amp, Offset or Phase where the appropriate field is high-lit and can be changed with the PC keyboard and the desired units setting or click Cancel to return.Clicking on the channel tab places most of the other front panel buttons in a menu as virtual buttons where we can access their menus.Waveform Sweep, Burst and Modulation operations where we would have lit front panel button to press again to disable requires a slightly different approach in that we click on the channel tab again and click on the operation type again to disable it.Selecting waveforms is as simple as clicking on the waveform shown in the menu and folders of all available then clicking on the waveform type we want.OutputsClicking on Load gives us the option for HiZ or 50 Ohm output to match to our load needs where output levels are automatically adjusted for amplitude levels to match the expected load.Managing output Off/On is as simple as clicking on either.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 08:33:24 am
content: Yup, TBH took me some time to discover all of those 'hidden' click targets, but once you know it's quite easy!What I'd really like in a future FW revision is a way to tame the brightness of the LCD, that thing is fierce, especially at night.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 08:38:33 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on February 16, 2025, 08:33:24 amJust boxed this one up for the morning mail....Do we have a Display menu or anywhere this might be best added/implemented ?Somewhere in the System menus I guess.....Will get SDG6022X out and investigate......but then the HW has to support it.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 01:20:18 pm
content: Unfortunately, the webserver is not at all dealt with in the manual (except that you can set a password for it…)I agree it is fairly intuitive– and very much like the webserver in my SDS2000X Plus oscilloscope. (But see below for some differences.)The only function I could not find so far is making a screenprint on the device itself (which is normally a long push on the Store Recall button). But since you can now make screenprints to the computer itself, this is not really much of a limitation. And in the web app, then using the “UI Style ‘Normal’), the screenprints have the correct color (i.e., the same color as shown on the screen). So not like the wrong colors when you make a screenprint on the device itself to its internal memory.As can already be seen in Tautech’s message, there is this extra menu line (with items ‘Sweep, Burst,’ etc.) that was not present before that allows access to the physical buttons of the device that are not replicated on the screen interface. By default, the channel tab says “BSWV”, which is not explained anywhere but may mean something like “Basic Wave’ (i.e., a wave that is not modulated, swept, or ‘bursted’).To get to the utility menu, you also need to click this “BSWV” or “MOD” or whatever; it’s not very elegant, but well, it works….Improvements that I would appreciate are:That computer alphanumeric keyboard input (as well as backspace key etc.) would be accepted when creating filenames, renaming, etc. This is very awkward via the screen interface! Funny enough, the number keys [0-9], as well as the left and right arrows, do work (!). You can even use the ‘up’ and ‘down’ keys to toggle letters on the screen, but there seems to be no way to select these after toggling. Not being able to use the computer keyboard effectively is a missed change - over time, my SDGs accumulated many files, and it would be great to clean up once in a while.Connecting a USB keyboard to the SDG directly does not work either. I see it getting power (caps lock light goes on, etc.), but keystrokes are not recognized by the SDG. Too bad.When entering values into numeric fields, the <enter> key is disabled. Would be great if hitting enter would just allow you to input the value (in the default unit setting at the bottom of the screen).Going to Utilities > Test/Cal > Selftest > KeyTest, you can check the (rather straightforward) routing from the computer keyboard to the SDG front panel keys).From the above test, we can see that a push of the rotary key is, in fact, not mapped to anything on the computer keyboard (the logical candidate would have been the <enter> key. Having that said, it would not have solved much, as the push of the rotary key does almost nothing on the physical device either; you cannot confirm values or choices; it just seems to work in very rare instances, like recapping a file name. I would like that rotary push to be used much more effectively throughout the device!Clicking on the ON word in “*CH1:Sine.ON” turns that channel on. I know you can turn it on via the same word at the lower right button, but I intuitively started on the “ON” at the top.The clock source icon, phase mode prompt icon, and LAN icon would bring you to these three menus, respectively. (They do so in the SDS webserver.) Or at least to the Utility menu, where these things can be set.Clicking ‘Output’ toggles between the two values (ON/OFF). But clicking “Load’ just above it brings you to a menu with only two items (but does not toggle and requires more clicks). Would be nice to have that consistent.As noted, the SDG1X+ web interface is in many respects similar to the one of the SDS2kX+. But the latter one has useful additional extra buttons under the simulated screen (like “Waveform(.bin) Save” and “Waveform(.csv) Save”. It would be great if the SDG offered similar things, like directly uploading an ABR waveform!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 07:12:34 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 16, 2025, 01:20:18 pmSome changes are coming to how screenshots are to work on the device.We'll know more when the new FW arrives.WRT other comments, SDG1000X Plus is the first low cost Siglent AWG to offer a webserver and unlike several of the other model (2kX, 6kX) does not have a touch UI but I've sure these more upmarket touch display models don't support keyboards or mice or offer a webserver.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2025, 09:03:49 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 16, 2025, 08:38:33 amI searched the system settings on my SDG6022X and didn't find anything related to display settings.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 11:13:25 am
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 14, 2025, 01:09:12 pmRudi, Newbrain,I got word back.In attachment is the list of polynomials that are implemented. It confirms the findings by you guys.It is not a programming mistake, why was it chosen to implement those exactly, I am unclear on that...I got confirmation that Siglent recognizes that it would be nice to use ITU recommended sequences for the sake of de facto standardization and playing nice with others.They said they will implement those, but noted they cannot in this moment promise exactly when that will happen .It will go into pipeline and will be integrated into they existing FW release cycle.Best,Siniša

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 12:06:56 pm
content: Thanks a lot for reporting back!Well, there goes my hypothesis.It would in fact have been a bit too egregious as a bug, but it was worth a shot.The choice of polynomials is a bit baffling, why pick those instead of using a well known list?I've used PRBS professionally - not a lot - for a BER estimation self test in communication equipment; but TBH the probability I'm going to use them at home is slim to none (though you never know). It's been fun though, and an opportunity to familiarize with my new AWG (really happy about it, ATM).

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 02:53:53 pm
content: Dear 2N3055,Thank you for this feedback. It is interesting to learn that Siglent intentionally chose these polynomials. I really started to think this had to be a programming mistake, thinking that one would not deviate in a way that breaks compatibility with others without (explaining) clear value in doing so. But apparently, I was wrong.Knowing this, I would be interested to learn whether the SDG6000X, as well as the SNA5000A, SNA6000A, and SHN900A, have the same implantation as the SDG1000X Plus, or whether these (all) use the more regular ITU polynomials. And especially the SDG7000A, as this instrument is more likely to be used by telecom engineers.In any case, looking forward to a firmware update that would implement the more regular PRBS polynomials, but hopefully also other improvements suggested, such as:- Activating the sync out for PRBS (as it is for all other waveforms except noise and DC, for obvious reasons)- Reduce the startup time back to that of the 1000X and 2000X (it is currently twice as long)- Allowing all waveforms to use the differential out setting and, for ‘digital waveforms’ like squares, pulses, etc, the logic level settings- Better USB thumb drive compatibility (most of my modern USB thumb drives fail to work)- Saving screenshots directly to USB instead of internal memory- Solve the screenshot color problems in the UI style “Normal”- Bring back the better readable and larger font of the 1000X and 2000X

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 03:37:28 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 18, 2025, 02:53:53 pmI'm curious if these work with it:https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-3-Pack-Ultra-Flash-3x32GB/dp/B09FFK1QLR/(SanDisk SDCZ430-032G-A46)I use those on all my test gear (32GB version), and it works with all my Siglent stuff too. Also worked on my ST2832 when I still had it. 😉Thanks,Josh

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:07:33 pm
content: Agreed, but please *add* the polynomials, the current polynimials should also be there (maybe in a special menu).Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 18, 2025, 02:53:53 pm

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 04:24:32 pm
content: @ Josh:QuoteShort answer: I have some of the same drives here that are the same or pretty similar (SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.2; SDCZ430-016G). They are nice because they hardly stick out a front panel. I just tried them on the SDG100X Plus, and yes, they work.Long answer: The USB situation seems to be a bit erratic. Several modern (mostly USB-3) thumb drives refused to work with the RTB1k+ when I first got it - I got a double beep and a message ‘“USB device removed” when I inserted them. This includes drives from Samsung, Sandisk, and Lexar. I think also the above-mentioned SanDisk Ultra Fit refused to work earlier. But later, some of these drives did work again - but sometimes taking very long to be recognized. No idea why.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 05:07:41 pm
content: Quote from: RBBVNL9 on February 23, 2025, 04:24:32 pmWhen in doubt, always use the SDFormatter app to format the drives before trying them in TE. Manufacturers use some weird choice of limited hardware compatibility for USB drives, but I've never had an issue with those cute little Ultra Fit drives. Firmware updates on all devices, even Siglent recovery files on multiple devices using a 32GB drive, no problem.Sometimes USB drive detection is very slow, depending on the firmware. That's probably why you had some issues.Thanks,Josh

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 08:27:28 pm
content: Thanks, Josh.I should indeed consider using SDformatter. Given its authoritative source.QuoteI noted that for some usb drives the SDG was t-e-r-r-i-b-l-y slow in recognising them. But by ‘not working’ I meant the SDG after inserting showing a message ‘USB drive removed’ rather than ‘USB drive connected’.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2025, 09:37:20 pm
content: Sounds like new product + new firmware woes. 😉

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 07:34:50 am
content: Dear KungFuJosh,QuoteWell, yes and no…I tried this a little bit. However, the first thumb drives I formatted in SD Formatter did NOT work in the SDG1k+. So I think the issue is the following… Before or while formatting, SD Formatter does not provide information about the file system it uses. Thecurrent pagefor this utility does not provide information on the file system either. It does report this information afterwards, after the formatting is done (and, of course, you can use a computer to get details on the formatted drive). But you have no control over it.Trying to find further information, I found an“Article by our experts”of the SD association that states, “The SD Memory Card Formatter automatically formats with different FAT file systems, FAT12/16, FAT32 or exFAT depending on SD memory card capacities, SD, SDHC and SDXC.”Now, after a bit of experimenting, it seems that storage media of 64GB or larger, SD Formatter formats them as ExFAT. And, the Siglent SDG1k+ does not support that file format and fails to recognize the drive (“got get a “USB drive disconnected” message right after inserting). Storage media of 32GB and lower seem to be formatted as FAT32 and work in the SDG.When using the formatting utility in MacOS, however, I can also format 64GB drives in FAT32 format, and these do work well in the SDG.Now two reflections:I read different things about the maximum partition size of FAT32. Some suggest it is by design limited to 32GB, and then SD Formatter would be right in switching to ExFAT for larger drives. Other sites suggest the 32GB limit is an artificial one, and implementers may lift that limitation (as Microsoft apparently did in 2024). Anyway, I am not going to dig deeper into this as it is probably a rabbit hole.I have not checked all possible permutations relating to SD, SDHC and SDXC (and SDUC), and I do not know how the SD Formatter considers a USB card (it works with USB cards but is obviously designed for SD/SDHC/SDXC/SDUC Cards). So, my analysis of <=32GB and >32GB may be more nuanced.Bottom line: If your USB drive is 32GB or smaller, it’s a good idea to format it using SD Formatter. If its 64GB or larger, you better use an operating system that can format it at FAT32.Best, Rudi

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 03:24:16 pm
content: That makes sense. I've only used 32GB drives in my TE, as there's little benefit of anything bigger. For me at least. 😉

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 03:57:19 pm
content: Sure, a (much) smaller drive is also perfectly fine for this type of duty! The thing is that my 'regular' cards lying around tend to be larger and larger these days - also since I fancy the ones that have USB-A and USB-C connectors on the same thumb drive ;-)At some point, I bought some 10 of these small Sandisk Ultra Fit drives, with the idea of leaving them permanently in TE so I could directly make screen prints, etc. But I noted that over long run times, they had the tendency of getting a bit warm, and I did not like that. So I stopped using them this way.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 04:07:12 pm
content: They do get warm, but lots of drives do the same. I've never seen them get more than warm though, and never anything that would be considered dangerous or out of spec for the gear. Funny, I also have 10 of them.

author: miro123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2025, 05:25:50 pm
content: I have bought one sdg1062x + . The fan noise is similar to those of my siglent scope. Does somebody know what type of fan can be used as replacement. I have changed my scope fan with noctua with similar airflow, static pressure and dimensions.Does somebody already made such fan swap?

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2025, 07:16:39 pm
content: Hi,I am owner sdg1022X Plus and using dc waveform I noticed weird behavior,but this is also present in setting offset or amplitude, or even frequency of other waveforms.My software version is V1P.1.1.1.42R2 and generator is not modified.Going to bug it can be replicated this way:1. set DC Offset value of 1 Vdc from keyboard, it displays like "1.000 V"2. move cursor to right with direction cursor and don't stop at last digit, in my case cursor can go between digits and "V"3. If you now turn knob left or right it changes offset by ten timesYou can do this setting value in first step to e.g 12mV and go with cursor to position "m". Then it somehow remembers this new offset value.If you enter in first step positive value it is possible only to jump this way only through positive values if negative only jump through negative.This all seems strange to me, just like some software bug.Can anyone replicate this behaviour?

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 03:24:46 am
content: I think this is the intended behaviour. You are basically changing the exponent (0.8 mV ... 8 V = 8e-4 ... 8e0), and when the next value would exceed a lower or upper limit, it sets itself to the minimum or maximum allowable value.

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 03:52:42 pm
content: Thanks, and yes maybe this is not a bug but intended.It just surprised me.But I found another strange behaviour and IMO more serious, potentialy harmful.Disconnect all devices before trying to replicate.It took me a while to get a way to replicate it on my AWG and here it is on for dc waveform:1. enter -1 Vdc from keyboard2. move cursor to the last digit (smallest) with right direction button3. turn knob right and increase value to say -999.0 mV4. move cursor to first digit with button5. and now increase value turning knob right until -1.0 mV6. and turn once more to right, on my generator it ends in "-0" on display (see attached screenshoot) with cursor on minus sign7. if you don't disconnected awg from any circuit do it now and then turn knob right (it jumps in my case stright to 10 V) or left (it jumps in to -10 V)My generator is SDG1022X Plus without any mods with software V1P.1.1.1.42R2.Do anybody can acknowledge this behaviour?

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 04:19:42 pm
content: We've experienced what we consider strange behavior from various Digital Devices with Digital Rotary "Pots", Direction Arrows, and so on. Us old "seasoned" types learned long ago to always disconnect (either by equipment button our physically unplugging) things that create inputs (like power supplies and generators) when making changes. We had a case when an equipment analog pot had an intermittent wiper disconnect when rotated a certain way that cost us a bunch of expensive ICs, so learned the hard way back in the old Analog DaysBest

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2025, 05:07:46 pm
content: I was playing with single BC547 transistor using awg to apply voltage do base and nothing wrong happend when this voltage jump happend.First I was even not sure how this happend and suspected that it was my fault.Yes I learned from this at least to not turn knobs blindly and control display.Anyway it is not knob physical jump, it can happen when starting values are differenet than -1 V.I didn't do extensive research but now I know to disconnect when I see "-0". Or something strange/unexpected.Cheers

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:11:52 am
content: Quote from: greg-2 on May 28, 2025, 03:52:42 pmYes, very irritating. Intuitively I would say a single click on the knob should never change the value by more than 1V, or whatever the most significant digit is.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 08:45:15 am
content: This problem appears to be related tomy findings I mentioned several times alreadyfor the Siglent engineers to see (btw all not yet sorted by firmware updates), I even had some direct correspondence several yeas ago.It's really sad to see Siglent is still not addressing these major shortcomings of the U/I. This makes this otherwise very capable range of AWGs a pain to use in many cases. If their AWG design department would be equally good at "listening" to the users as apparently their oscilloscope and RF gear groups are, they would have much better AWGs and would probably "roll up" all the competition. Whatsoever, during the last several years I got to understand that this most likely just is "wishful thinking...".

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 12:50:53 pm
content: Maybe I'm missing something, but what you're describing sounds like normal behavior. On my R&S SML03, if I move the cursor using left or right arrows when editing Frequency or Level, it changes the number in that position directly. If cursor position (highlight) = X, and I was at 0.X, or X.0, or X0.0, or X,000,000 it changes the X. Always.It's up to the user to pay attention to what they're doing. 🤷If you're using sensitive equipment that can't directly handle the full output of the device you're adjusting, then follow Mike's advice and turn off output and/or disconnect the device before adjusting levels.

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 02:15:54 pm
content: Normaly siglent awg behaves as you described - maybe I described my findings not clearly.I try to illustrate this with screenshots:s1: setting offset from awg keyboard to -10 mVs2: placing cursor to digit "1" and increasing value using knob as normal, I get -9, -8 until "-10 mV" . It is ok. Now -1 reached with cursor still on digit "1".s3: increasing value one time more using knob and the result is literaly "-0" as shown on screenshot with cursor on minus sign. And if you turn knob now the offset changes to +8 V or -8 V depending on rotation directions4: and this is final resultFor me not normal is when you end up like on s3 on minus sign and from there change using knob is to min or max awg voltage,it should be IMO not "-0" but "0.0 mV" or "-0.0 mV". And even "-0.0 mV" and cursor on "-" sign I expect that I change voltage polaritybut not jump to max or min allowable value.Best,

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 02:41:12 pm
content: Maybe the minus sign is awkward, but it's still as I described.Think of it this way:-0 = 0 is the single digit value. If I'm on my R&S, and I move the cursor over to the left, it jumps to the next column that wasn't previously there. If 0 is the single digit value, the - symbol is now the double digit value on your SDG. Since (from your description) +/- 8 = max voltage, trying to adjust the second digit +/- 1 (= +/- 10V) then it will jump to the maximum allowable value, considering adjusting to (for example) +10 is impossible.So it sounds like it operates exactly as it is supposed to (albeit confusing). However, they could improve it by doing it the way R&S does on the SML and add a 0 to the new column you're adjusting, instead of leaving you on the - sign. Then you would see -00 which would certainly be less confusing.Thanks,Josh

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 03:09:27 pm
content: I tried it on a SDG2122X and the result is the same.

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 04:35:39 pm
content: So maybe, maybe this is as was planned but I really doubt.One difference, there is bare "-0" on display, with no units of offset, no Vdc, no mVdc. See screenshot.But when you start from say "-1.0 mVdc" and with cursor on "1", incresing value with knob leads to "0.000 Vdc" shown also on screenshot.So I don't like their way if it was by design.best,

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 04:46:35 pm
content: If it was by design, the designer might be from another galaxy

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:00:00 pm
content: Functionally it's normal. The UI part of it clearly needs to be improved, as the R&S example shows above.There are lots of areas where the UI in their products can be improved. However, it's something they've come along way on in the last 5 years or so. I upgraded from very old firmware on the SDS5000X to the latest firmware from this year, and stepping through each fw version, you can see where things sucked before, and improved greatly over time.Somebody should let them know this part of their SDG series UI needs improvement.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:01:49 pm
content: Siglent product support is excellent!

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 29, 2025, 05:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: greg-2 on May 29, 2025, 04:35:39 pmTested on SDG2042X, IMO it's a bug or GUI inconsistency (likely depends on internal rounding of float values).Sometimes after going to zero display shows "0.000 Vdc" (good, then jump by 1 digit up), sometimes display shows "-0" (bad, then jumps to extreme pos/neg value).Enter -10mV with buttons, select 1mV digit with cursor, go to zero -> "-0" result (bad)Enter -5mV with buttons, select 1mV digit with cursor, go to zero -> "0.000 Vdc" result (good)Enter 0mV/5mV/10mV/other value, select 1mV digit with cursor, go up/down to zero -> "0.000 Vdc" (good)This needs fixing, something is not quite right there.

author: greg-2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2025, 02:05:06 pm
content: so at least two lines of awg are affected. I sent a message about this bug to member called Siglent.

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 05:06:28 am
content: I hooked up this beautifulLeo Bodnar LBE-1421to the 10 MHz in. The Signal on the 10 MHz out is clocked with the 10 MHz in (so I can daisy chain it to another instrument, I wasn't sure if that's standard). However, the 10 MHz out on the Siglent doesn't look amazing. Is that normal?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 07:02:47 am
content: Quote from: sfs1 on June 11, 2025, 05:06:28 amCheck the datasheet and manual for the termination/load requirements.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 01:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: sfs1 on June 11, 2025, 05:06:28 amnot related to the awg, i'm curious, is your 1204 the 200MHz version? i'm surprised to see such thin traces. my 200MHz 1102g has much thicker traces on the same settings.thank you!

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 02:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 11, 2025, 07:02:47 amI did use a 50 Ohm termination. Looks the same with or without. 🤷🏻‍♂️Quote from: Anthocyanina on June 11, 2025, 01:36:25 pmInteresting. It's the 70 MHz version. You're in 10:1 and i'm not sure what signal you're measuring. Let me give you a new example to compare. I feed a 2.000 Vpp signal (yellow) from the signal generator (set to 50 Ohm load, so 4.000 Vpp if set to Hi-Z) and the 10 MHz out (blue) into the scope with BNC cables and 50 Ohm terminators. I set the scope to factory defaults, set the probe attenuation to 1:1 and increased the timebase to 20 ns/div.In other news, I have fitted a Noctua NF-A6x25 fan. I had to make this adapter from 3-pin fan to 2-pin (my box of Chinese pin connectors says "XH" so I think it'sone of these). Everything has been okay after about 1h of operation but I have no idea if this will cause problems long term. Just reporting on my attempt. If I ever get any warnings or shutdowns or anything I will post here. It's only slightly quieter, even with the low noise adapter installed. The original fan is actually reasonably quiet, but the case design really amplifies the fan noise. Still it's a small improvement.

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 03:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: sfs1 on June 11, 2025, 05:06:28 amThat does not look normal, can you try the other AWG channel?Best

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 08:56:15 am
content: Quote from: sfs1 on June 12, 2025, 02:57:45 pmThat looks quite odd, especially the duty cycle?Is the LBE-1421 generating a non symmetrical waveform?For reference, the screenshot of my SDG10262X Plus clock output, with a 10 MHz Square wave:SDG's clock input is 50 Ω terminated and connected directly to a 10 MHz OCXO, and it's quite ugly to look at (OCXO mounted on a breadboard, no buffering whatsoever - I don't think its output is 50 Ω, flying wires-BNC-SMA-BNC...).One thing I noted fumbling around with cables and adapters: if the clock input is interrupted, the SDG will detect the problem and turn off the output, plus it flashes a warning.If the interruption is brief/chaotic enough, recovery is not guaranteed, sometimes it will generate jumbled up waveforms.Easy remedy: disable and re-enable external clock.Edit: F*ck the attachment system of this forum.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 09:49:23 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on June 13, 2025, 08:56:15 amYup, ongoing serious bug.Use only the 2nd and subsequent attachments to upload a thumbnail then Copy/Paste its URL between IMG flags for a full size image. For multiple full size images a little planning is needed as one can't plant multiple image flags to have them ready for later editing so you need Copy/Paste them within your text first and then insert the image URL's.Use the Modify Message tab for this at the bottom right of your posts.

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2025, 06:03:40 am
content: Quote from: mawyatt on June 12, 2025, 03:07:43 pmThe green signal is the 10 MHz output on the back. CH1 (yellow) and the LBE-1421 (red) look square and symmetrical. No doubt CH2 will look the same as CH1.The second screenshot shows the 10 MHz out of the siglent with the clock set tointernal. The reference waveform in the background is with the clock set to external. You can see the asymmetry is not there with the internal clock but the shape is the same.Quote from: newbrain on June 13, 2025, 08:56:15 amYes yours doesn't seem to have that offset / distortion, so it might be the LBE-1421 introducing it, even though it's output looks perfect if I measure it directly.I don't know if any of this is a big deal or how square these 10 MHz outputs usually are. It works perfectly fine as an external trigger for my scope at least.EDIT: my apologies, I was AC coupling when I measured LBE-1421 directly. It does have a DC offset of about 750 mV at 1 Vpp. This explains the offset / distortion compared to the internal clock.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2025, 01:38:02 pm
content: Defpom has a look at SDG1022X Plus

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 06:54:06 am
content: A new firmware for the SDG1000x-plus has been released:https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG1000X_Plus_P43R8_EN.zipThese are the changes in the Release Notes:QuoteApart from the PRBS polynomial changes (), and some bug fixes, I'm curious about the new way of setting up true arb.I'll give it a shot during the weekend.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 07:41:04 am
content: Quote from: newbrain on September 05, 2025, 06:54:06 amNice, been asking for the screenshot feature to be enhanced so that when a USB stick is fitted it saves there by default....but we now also have the choice of PNG and not only BMP.You can set the filetype to be saved in the Utility/System menu.Long press of the encoder and bang, a message pops up that it has been saved.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 09:14:46 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 05, 2025, 07:41:04 amHA!Just tried on 6000X and it also saves like that...!!Nice!

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2025, 02:02:39 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 05, 2025, 09:14:46 amI hope those screenshot improvements are coming to the SDG2000X!

author: Performa01
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2025, 08:15:19 am
content: This looks like a really convincing offer in the entry level class.I'm planning to take a closer look at it, when time permits...

author: sfs1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2025, 01:00:15 pm
content: I was hoping they might have fixed this annoying behaviour where you go from 1 Hz to 1 µHz and then back up in 1 µHz increments. I think it should just not let you go below 1 on the most significant digit.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 09:23:59 pm
content: It’s nice to see Silent being responsive to our earlier criticism of the PRBS not working. Having taken a closer look at it today, I started to note that the new patterns it produces are… not all correct either. Let’s give them another try?<a href="">video

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 10:37:25 pm
content: What is the native DAC sample rate in the Siglent SDG10x2X Plus?Is it 125 MSa/s, which then gets interpolated to 500 MSa/s (4x) or 1 GSa/s (8x).?

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 07:04:25 am
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 10, 2025, 10:37:25 pmIt's 250 MS/s, upsampled to 1 GS/s,from the datasheet:QuoteAnd:

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 03:42:17 pm
content: Thx Newbrain for the highlight..Been in a debate with one of theseAi-language models.(that obviously is highly error-infested at times)That takes a stand that it's likely a 125Msa/s that is interpolated 8x to reach 1GSa/s.The datasheet about point-to-point Truarb at 250MSa/s, It made these arguements for the 125Msas/s claim while still being able to deliver point to point at 250MSa/s.QuoteApproaches to test it.Quote

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 03:57:39 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 11, 2025, 03:42:17 pmPlease take useless AI (short for : Artificial Idiocy, Copyright) discussions elsewhere.When you need data consult datasheet or ask somebody here that actually have clue.Why do you waste your and our time arguing with machine that gathers data by popular opinion scavenging (meaning clueless people OPINION all over the world) and extrapolates mathematical information by lexical analysis when it was 20 seconds to look it up in datasheet.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 04:13:27 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 11, 2025, 03:57:39 pmSeriously! AI sucks, especially for this kind of info. I forgot the spacing on my SPD3303X, and Google's AI did agreatjob.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 04:57:55 pm
content: It varies a lot from topic to topic.. Political-loaded bs, close to useless as its so loaded nowadays..When its comes to programming or test approaches, I do find it useful to guide certain approaches and highlight conclusive indicators.Though native DAC clock seems to be pretty straightforward to validate, with the approaches above.And I hope it goes without saying, when you use Ai language models, as a possible source for info, specs etc or just technical guidance always eparate the dirt from the cinnamon, as there are a lot of errors and then you can debate and validate it with others.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 05:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 11, 2025, 04:57:55 pmIt's sometimes okay to help with very basic programming. It will still lie if it doesn't understand or makes a mistake.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 05:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on September 11, 2025, 05:21:04 pmThey are flooded with mistakes, no doubt about that, and they will lock into a repeating loop mode, to the point that you wanna go ballistic.You need a lot of patience with these language models, and second-guess everything, and it is not as if they are improving with each revision, more like the opposite..As far as I can tell, Siglent does not publicly specify the native DAC clock for the SDG1000X/SDG1022X series, and the TrueArb point-to-point sampling rate listed in the datasheet (e.g., 250 MSa/s / SDG1022X Plus) is not necessarily equal to the actual DAC clock, couldnt that in theory run at a lower rate with internal interpolation, buffering that then is used to achieve the advertised TrueArb rate.The datasheet's point-to-point rate of 250 MSa/s (TrueArb) aint that a functional limit for waveform playback, not necessarily the raw DAC speed.

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 08:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: DaneLaw on September 11, 2025, 05:56:47 pmSix of one, half dozen of the other.Ifdistinctsamples are pooped out 250×10⁶ times per second*, the physical clock of the DAC is totally immaterial, be that realized with a DDR approach or an interleaving mechanism or fed at 1 MHz and using a PLL.With an opaque box approach, you can't discern the three from a DAC with an actual 250 MHz clock.The AI answers look like discussing with someone that knows just enough to be confused on the matter and makes irrelevant points.*and passed through a reconstruction filter, and amplifiers yaddayadda...

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 09:48:56 pm
content: To sum up, at least from a black-box perspective, the effective 250 MSa/s playback limit is what matters, - hence the quite common 4× interpolation on Siglent’s entry- to mid-range arb models.The raw DAC clock is just an internal implementation detail you can’t actually use, which is why datasheets likely don’t bother publishing it.- unless you’re geeking out over the design or comparing models that differ in their sampling approach.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 10:34:01 pm
content: To reply, for instance Rigol DG900Pro claims 1.25GS/s but support 325MS/s in arb mode.It probably uses similar x4 upsampling in DAC.Rigol DG800Pro does 2X upsampling, still with 325MS/s in arb mode.Upsampling simplifies filtering after DAC... Or makes for a better filtering with same order filter.And contrary to what was claimed here, Siglent datasheet (unlike Rigol one that is vague on this) clearly states SDG1000X+ generates signal at 250MS/s and that is up-interpolated to 1GS/s.But usually max AWG waveform sample rate and native max sample rate of AWG data-pump are same number.

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2025, 09:37:28 am
content: Still processing the recent firmware upgrade (see also my video posted above).I noted that Siglent also released an updated manual for the SDG1000X Plus (version EN01C). I really like it that firmware changes are properly documented in an update to the manual (I do like it, however, if a manual states clearly what firmware version it describes…)I found the following parts of the updated manual interesting:In the Sync section (12.7), the manual notes that a sync signal is output for all waveforms except noise and DC. Would that mean that with the new firmware, it will now output a proper the pattern sync for PRBS? What makes me a bit sceptical is that the section continues by providing the sync details for the various modes, but then does not mention the PRBS mode at all. I’m curious to see whether the sync is now available or not but cannot test it now as I just left on another work trip…For PRBS, the manual now states: “There are two output modes: length and formula. When selecting a formula, users can customize the polynomial output. See Table 9-7 for details”. I find that a bit odd, and this is not really in line with what you see on the screen of the instrument. I’d expect (and what it also suggested with the chosen user interface) that for the manual polynomial (‘formula’) mode, you first specify then length and then the taps you want to set. But ion the case of this instrument, perhaps the length setting the user selected is just ignored and the instrument will just assume that highest tap number will be used to set the length of the shift register. Could run a test on this where I have the opportunity.There is no information related to the changed DC mode. That one now has an ‘Amplifier’ setting that can be turned to ‘open’ or ‘closed’. This new parameter is missing in Table 9-1 of the manual. No idea what it really means and how it related to the very brief note in the recent FW changes document, and which of the two settings is the ‘old’ mode, and how apparently there is an effect on accuracy as suggested in the FW changes document.Will do a bit more hands-on testing once I get back from my trip!

author: RBBVNL9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 06:54:55 pm
content: Just did a test, and despite the claim in the updated manual (*), the new firmware does not output a sync ('pattern sync') signal for the PRBS waveform. When you try to activate sync, you get a 'Cannot output a sync signal' error.*:"When synchronization is turned on, the [ Aux In/Out ] interface on the instrument's rear panel can output a CMOS signal of the same frequency as the basic waveform (excluding Noise and DC), any waveform, and modulation waveform (excluding external modulation), with a maximum frequency of 5 MHz."Section 12.7 of manual version EN01C (which covers firmware P43R8_EN).