Art of Electronics 3rd edition, deployment  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 03:12:45 pm
content: After my upcoming deployment, I'll be going to school full time for EE. These next 6 months will be a long break from being able to work on my electronics projects. I want to stay with it and prepeare for school as much as possible in the meantime. I have my associates degree already and have been in the field as a technician for 5 years now. My question is, vague and theoretical. My question is, how well will reading and understanding the art of electronics third edition on my deployment, prepare me for undertaking EE courses.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 04:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 12, 2015, 03:12:45 pmIt will notdirectlyprepare you for the theoretical part of a degree. (BTW, I don't know what an ""associates degree" is).It will give you a practical background so that you can see the importance of the theory in practice.It will give you a sprinking of theory, but essentially it assumes that you know the theory and need to know how to apply the theory in practical suituations.When doing a practical project, it may enable you have a better understanding of which questions should be asked and answered because the answers are important.Summary: TAoE is a good and very usefuladjunctto the degree - but it is neither necessary nor sufficient.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 06:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 12, 2015, 04:51:49 pmAssociates in the states is a 2 year degree. I don't know how best to prepare for EE and maintain motivation while deployed aside from that book.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: Kappes Buur
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 12, 2015, 06:26:45 pmDoes that mean that you are familiar with instantaneous changes in a circuit, or is that simply for electrical DC levels.Electrical Engineering goes heavily into math, as in calculus and later on LaPlace. You may want to be prepared for that.To get an inkling of what is involved take a look atthe videos for the MIT 6.002x courseon Youtube.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: Kappes Buur on October 12, 2015, 08:43:28 pmIf you mean time constants, then I'm familiar with that. I also have a lot of practical hands on experience and really good rf theory. I want to be prepared though. I almost wonder if i should have asked what caught people off guard in their ee program? I don't want to be caught off guard.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 09:29:54 pm
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 12, 2015, 08:47:22 pmI suggest you look at the syllabus for your course, or at least at the vids pointed to above."RF theory" covers alotof ground, e.g. propagation/channel models, characteristics of different modulation schemes, erf functions (which is the steepest curve I know!), DSP, and information theory - plus lots more. Even a PhD isn't sufficient to claim to "know" the theoretical aspects of RF.As to what caught me out? Thinking the theory would be easy and an extension of schjool physics. Fortunately I realised my mistake after 2 weeks, so I had plenty of time to get my act together.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 09:32:17 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on October 12, 2015, 09:29:54 pmCan't argue any of that. All true and valid points. Thank you for the info!!!Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:14:54 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 12, 2015, 08:47:22 pmOf course, the best first step toward being prepared is finding out exactly what's covered by the courses you'll be taking. For me, EE courses, whether they were for analog, digital, or power systems, were primarily theory and math. I had to take 3, or was it 4, semesters of calculus along with EE classes. Very little was practical apart from practical-sounding homework/test questions (e.g., an electric motor has the following characteristics, compute the...) and a little bit of circuit building in a digital/microprocessor lab.It's good to have both, theoretical and practical, in whichever order you gain the knowledge.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:17:09 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 13, 2015, 03:14:54 amDid you get to build stuff or was there long stretches of just theory? I just got my lab together and i fear, i wont be able to put it to much use during the courses.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:34:54 am
content: Lab classes were the only opportunities to build things. But even then, the builds were not extensive, just a little breadboarding for basic building block circuits. If you wanted to do some real building, you did it via extracurricular activities, such as themicromousecompetitions, or by going above and beyond the standard lab projects. For example, for a lab project that where we simply wired a microprocessor to external memory and stored/read data there, I wrote a RAM tester/debugger in order to troubleshoot IC, breadboard, and wiring issues. The assembly code for the tester was an order of magnitude more extensive than that for the actual project.My EE concentration was in computer hardware (i.e., low voltage digital), so I didn't see what the power engineers (i.e., high voltage/current analog, motors, etc.) were up to as far as lab activities.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:37:18 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:17:09 amSure you can. Build the stuff that you write equations for. You'll probably be one of the few who has practical experience and is able to go beyond being atextbookengineer.

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:39:14 am
content: When I was doing my EE it seemed like what held up people the most, at least the first two years, were Calculus and Physics courses. At least where I went to school (CU-Boulder) Calc I was actually fun, Calc II was a bitch, Calc III was fun again, Diff EQ was pretty hard, and Linear algebra was difficult. Of course if you don't understand Calc you'll have trouble understanding Physics, especially the second semester- 1st semester was mostly mechanics and so forth, 2nd was all the stuff that was most applicable to EE.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:39:15 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 13, 2015, 03:34:54 amThis is the program. I hope i don't lose motivation going through all that theory.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:40:52 am
content: Quote from: JoeB83 on October 13, 2015, 03:39:14 amWas trigonometry easy for you?Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:41:55 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:40:52 amTrig was fun, except for trigonometric identities. And unfortunately, trig identities are VERY important for Calc II. I also took trig in high school, so your mileage may vary if you're taking it at college.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:44:32 am
content: Quote from: JoeB83 on October 13, 2015, 03:41:55 amThat's pretty much how I felt just finishing trig last month. Any tips? Just keep hammering away?Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:46:10 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:44:32 amPretty much. You'll use a little bit in Calc I, but definitely do a major review before taking Calc II.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:47:01 am
content: Quote from: JoeB83 on October 13, 2015, 03:46:10 amWill do. Thanks!!Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:56:19 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:39:15 amLooks like more labs than I recall having. That's good. The labs are the most fun. Since you have a lot of practical knowledge already, stay motivated by connecting the theory to what you already know. The theory is the "why" behind the way the practical works the way it does. That should lead to plenty of aha moments when the two come together.I experience it the opposite way that you will since I learned the theory first. I get, "so that's what that meant" and "so that's what that's for" moments.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:57:46 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 13, 2015, 03:56:19 amThis is great. I really appreciate the advice and you looking over the program for me. Thank you!!!Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 04:10:53 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:57:46 amSure thing. All the best on the program and your future EE endeavors.

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 04:36:54 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:47:01 amNo problem, glad I could help!

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 04:54:08 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:44:32 amTake trig-based physics. Same is true with Calc 1, the physics teaches it so much better than the math course does.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:04:17 am
content: The two sides complement each other well.The theoretical, mathematical stuff is valuable to have some experience with, but in my experience some universities are weak when it comes to hands-on lab experience and practical skills in prototyping, research and development, design and construction with real hardware.Maybe some people view that as work for a technician, not an engineer, and it's beneath you and a job for somebody with a smaller paycheque. I don't know.But they're valuable skills to have.Do practice designing and building physical real-world electronics, even if it's not exactly on the syllabus.I've seen students who can draw the circuit of say a non-inverting opamp amplifier, but then you ask them to go and physically build it in the real world and they're completely lost.They can't translate that drawing on paper to a real physical device and get past that layer of abstraction.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 08:09:44 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:17:09 amBlimey! My lab consisted of a multimeter and a 25W soldering iron! I still managed to build an Altair-like 6800 computer - a terrible mess, but I learned a lot and it provided good ammunition for CV and job interviews.The course will be your best chance to gain and understand a broad range of theory; don't miss that opportunity. You can always gain practical experience later.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 08:16:00 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 13, 2015, 03:39:15 amThat's largely up to you. Don't forget to ask questions.An engineer wouldn't find the theory boring, because that's what enables them to advance the art. Theyoughtto find the theory challenging - if not then they are just marking time.A technician might find the theory boring and pointless. That's OK, because both engineers and technicians are necessary, just as both doctors and nurses are necessary. (But the technician-vs-engineer conversation has been done to death elsewhere on this forum, so please let's avoid driftingthisthread!)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 08:28:16 am
content: Various people have made points about trigonometry and calculus. Since much enginering theory is based on them you will most definitely need them.The Euclidian trigonometry I learned when I was 11-13 was sufficient for the university course. I've never learned non-Euclidian trig.I had exams using basic integration and differentiation when I was 15, and it was necessary for my physics courses between 16 and 18. Nowadays calculus is still necessary for that physics, but is only taught between 16 and 18; shame.Differential equations are necessary for much engineering, but in electronics only the results are necessary. Any belief that finite element analysis (or similar) is sufficient is misguided - although FEA is necessary in the real world.

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:01:16 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 12, 2015, 03:12:45 pmBrush up on your math and physics, EE is heavily dependent on theory. You need to be very confident with Calculus, otherwise school will be hell for you. The great thing about math is the only equipment you need is a pencil and paper.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:10:07 am
content: Quote from: nbritton on October 14, 2015, 01:01:16 amHow do you all master math? Unfortunately, i was a poor student when i was younger so there is a lot of gaps in my knowledge and i get frustrated trying to learn from YouTube kahn academy, etc. Trigonometry was hell for me and i barely got a B-.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:23:40 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 14, 2015, 01:17:02 amSame here-I took an extra 4 credits (Linear Algebra-highly recommended!) and earned a math minor.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:24:11 am
content: Anyone else had equal parts math? I'm weak on trig and can't do well self study but that's my only option when i deploy.Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: JoeB83
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:26:36 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 14, 2015, 01:24:11 amThese can be helpful:http://www.amazon.com/Schaums-Outline-Trigonometry-5th-Problems/dp/0071795359/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1444785958&sr=8-2&keywords=trigonometry+problemshttp://www.amazon.com/Humongous-Book-Trigonometry-Problems/dp/1615641823/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444785958&sr=8-1&keywords=trigonometry+problemshttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0071635343?keywords=calculus%20problems&qid=1444785921&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2

author: nbritton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:32:06 am
content: Quote from: Daniel_Reyes on October 14, 2015, 01:10:07 amGo back and master Algebra, it's the foundation for all advanced mathematics. Pickup a college algebra book and memorize everything in it, know it like the back of your hand. Then move on to pre-calculus. I did bad in math the first time around in school due to bad teachers. I ended up going back to the local community college and taking all of their remedial math classes. After doing that I aced math. Everything in math is built on layers of previous knowledge, so you must master the foundational topics.Also study statistics.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:35:56 am
content: Quote from: nbritton on October 14, 2015, 01:32:06 amI'll do that. I'm sure you're right. Thanks!Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: ryanralph
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:41:52 am
content: That's a pretty decent lab setup you've got there, it will probably be better than any labs your uni will allow undergrads to use!Just out of interest where are you located?

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:44:33 am
content: Quote from: ryanralph on October 14, 2015, 01:41:52 amThanks! I'm located in Texas but I am from CaliforniaSent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 01:53:37 am
content: I definitely feel blessed. I worked my butt off for these things, that's for sure. The equipment lets me learn by diving right in which is how I learn best. I'm hoping it will help me endure the theory. I've learned some hard systems that I've had to work on, enduring months of theory and actually enjoying it before but the one part that always gave me the most joy was the hands on portion.

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:02:30 am
content: What was it like going through your EE program? Were you always happy, excited? Tired? Stessed? Are you happy now? What's your general feeling from life?Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:11:48 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 14, 2015, 02:09:11 amI'm loving this insight. Thank you!Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

author: Daniel_Reyes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:28:48 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 14, 2015, 02:09:11 amHow were your classmates? Did you get along with them? Were they passionate?Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk