Black Accumulation on Hakko Tip - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 06:20:40 am
content: Hi Guys! I’ve done a lot of searching around for why my tip is turning black on the chrome part (as opposed to the iron part, which takes solder). Most people seem to have this problem with the iron part, and not the chrome part. Some places said the black stuff is burnt flux. I think that the black stuff is creeping into the iron part, however, and that’s concerning. I have an fix-888d (a legit one!), and I love how quick and qualify it is. It’s just the tip that’s giving me issues. Refer to the pictures below.I use Sparkfun lead free (not special blend) or RadioShack lead free. I have a t18-d12 or 16 tip, and I run my station at 620-660 degrees Fahrenheit. I tin my tip before I turn it off, and I use the brass that came with the station, along with this from RadioShackhttps://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-tip-tinner-and-cleaner-0-5-oz,for cleaning. Idk what the RadioShack stuff does, except smell like ammonia when usedWhat is on my tip and how do I remove it?https://photos.app.goo.gl/X66l6rH3r4yHMxyI2https://photos.app.goo.gl/Al9wgmjS5nJ7Pt2y1

author: mictas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 08:51:54 am
content: I found a YouTube video.https://youtu.be/YKKlA_CMNrI?t=110Enjoy.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:04:01 am
content: Most likely the black is oxidized flux and flux residue. It is normal to get some discoloration around the tip from this. If it spreads onto the tinned part of the tip it indicates tip damage which is not good.I have to say that for hand soldering, the use of tin/lead (60/40 or 63/37) solder is much better. It has a less aggressive flux, it wets better, it works at lower temperatures--it is therefore easier to use and it extends the life of the tip. For many decades people had settled on tin/lead as the best solder formulation. In modern times the science has not changed and lead free solder did not suddenly become better. The traditional tin/lead composition still works best.I say this because I have never had any issues with tip damage or oxidation using tin/lead solder and a mild flux.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:36:52 am
content: Discolouration and dulling of the hot parts is quite normal over time, the impotant part is the last 5 / 10 mm that you solder with. Wiping the bit before and after every use will keep it clean and prevent the crusty ring of black crud which otherwise forms above the tinned area. The tip cleaner will be an aggressive flux so you should use it only when normal tinning & wiping fails to coat the tip. I also try and avoid the metal scouring pad type cleaners as they scratch the coating and in my opinion don't do as good a job as a damp tip sponge. I'll also second the opinion that for hobby use, leaded solder is much better than lead free.

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 11:59:26 am
content: Thanks guys. So is there a way to remove this? I know lead solder works better, but I started out with lead free, and it has yet to discourage me from this hobby. Will the black stuff hurt tip life, assuming it stays where it is?

author: mavu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 12:36:27 pm
content: Quote from: bobdabiulder on December 11, 2017, 11:59:26 amI usually take some paper and rub it off (when cold).It doesn't remove everything, but I don't want to use anything more aggresive and makes it look "used" instead of "crusty"

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 02:37:40 pm
content: What is your tip temperature set to? Maybe it's too high. For lead solder, usually no higher than 350 C or 660 F is necessary. For lead free, < 375 C or 700 F. Lower is better for tip life.I agree completely with the sentiment that leaded solder is the best to use for building projects. The lower working temperature, the less aggressive flux, and the simple presence of lead all extend tip life. I once read a paper by a major soldering equipment maker (maybe Weller?) about tip life with Pb vs. Pb-free solders. They stated that Pb will preferentially bond with the Fe in the tip plating, providing an effective barrier against erosion of the Fe by the Sn. In Pb-free solder this doesn't happen and the Sn erodes away the Fe. I can't find that paper any longer.Use the tip tinner/cleaner very sparingly. It contains a very aggressive flux compound that will eat through even very bad oxidization on the tip, allowing it to be tinned. This can rescue a tip that is otherwise unusable, but itdoesdamage the iron plating. If you use it on an otherwise healthy tip, the lifetime of the tip is shortened. Instead, try a brass bristle brush (like a toothbrush with brass bristles). Remove as much solder as possible on your sponge/brass wool, then go to town with the brush. Beware of hot solder and other junk coming off the tip while doing this of course.Immediatelytin the usable area of the tip very well, preferably with SnPb solder, and let it sit a while to form a nice inter-metallic layer between solder alloy and iron plating.I prefer the damp (not wet!) sponge method of tip care, over brass wool. I find that it effectively keeps flux residue to a minimum. Always use distilled water only, and keep the sponge clean.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 03:28:40 pm
content: Use at your own riskhttps://pt.aliexpress.com/item/Multitool-Cleaning-Soldering-Tip-Refresher-Abrasive-Lead-free-BS-2-cream-tip-revival-cream-oxidation/32822425598.html?spm=a2g03.search0104.3.10.rVNrAU&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10345_10342_10547_10343_51102_10340_10341_10548_10541_5000012_5130012_10084_10083_10307_5080012_10539_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060012_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_33,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=3456dd23-5812-418e-9490-4b465a07e9a2-1&algo_pvid=3456dd23-5812-418e-9490-4b465a07e9a2&rmStoreLevelAB=0

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 03:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: macboy on December 11, 2017, 02:37:40 pmI literally said “650 degrees F” in the OP... would have saved you a paragraph to read what I said. Half of the suggestions you say are ones I mentioned and am already doing. Regardless, I do appreciate your reply.

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 03:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on December 11, 2017, 03:28:40 pmHow about this?https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008BWKCL6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fLQlAb9TTWCJZ

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 05:37:46 pm
content: Quote from: bobdabiulder on December 11, 2017, 03:37:39 pmRe-read my response, I didn't suggest doing anything you've already tried, but I did suggest NOT using the tip cleaner that you have said you have tried. You also don't mention using lead solder, a brass bristle brush, or a damp sponge, which are the only other suggestions in my post.

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 06:11:13 pm
content: QuoteI reread it. You didn’t read the part of mine where I mentioned temperature, or the type of solder I use. Obviously, I stay away from damp sponges except in very rare situations, because they thermally shock the tip, and water will rust the iron on the tip if misused. I don’t have a brass bristle sponge, I may get one now though. I will limit my tip cleaner use now that I know how bad it is for frequent use.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 07:35:43 pm
content: Quote from: bobdabiulder on December 11, 2017, 06:11:13 pmIMHO this is a bit of an urban myth. A damp sponge (use distilled water) is fine and is a good way to remove water soluble crud and oxidation from the tip leaving it nice and shiny. The iron won't rust because the tip is hotter than the boiling point of water and is in any case completely coated in solder. And the thermal shock (the puff of steam) helps the cleaning process. It does no harm to the tip.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:04:11 pm
content: What I use is a piece of brass tubing. About 3/8" to 1/2" in diameter. I cut the end at a slant. The one I have used for better part of a decade for tip cleaning has been further modified with some snips/cuts/bends to make a nearly straight section that extends past the rest of the tube. I call it my "brass fingernail." Good for removing labels from metal and plastic parts, too. I gently scrape off the burnt residue, always pushing from the base towards the tip, so as not to catch the edge of the chrome. I have never suffered any damage from doing this.If the tip is cold, you can finish by wiping the tip with a paper towel soaked in alcohol or acetone. After breaking it up and removing 99% with the tube, the remaining fragments will dissolve more easily. If you are going to clean the tips, cold, it is better to fling off and or wipe off most of the solder, before turning off the iron. At least make sure there is not a big blob to solidify right at the edge of the chrome.For routine maintenance, I find brass wool keeps most of the residue at bay, but not 100%. I have tried large gauge stainless steel wool, and this is too aggressive/hard and can damage the chrome. It is possible that finer gauge steel wool would work ok, but this is what works for me, and it's good enough to date. Brass tube for deep cleaning (usually just do a bunch of my tips every once in a while, when they are cold); brass wool for routine cleaning while working.The black residue is mostly cosmetic if it's far enough up the tip where it isn't an issue. The ones where I get the most problem is with my TFO tips. On these, it can eventually build up to the point it will scrape against a component lead and bits of it will fall off.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:16:03 pm
content: I find brass wool very harsh on a tip's plating, techs on the shop floor throw Hakko's brass wool into the garbage. They only use a damp sponge to clean tips.If there is slag build up, I use a block of wood to scrape it off. Yes the wood can get a bit burnt, but it's gentle scrape.There is "soldering tip cleaner" paste noobs seem to like, but I find it rarely does anything.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:20:00 pm
content: "I find brass wool very harsh on a tip's plating, techs on the shop floor throw Hakko's brass wool into the garbage."To each their own.Possibly my most used tip is a 3mm TFO bevel. This collects residue like no other tip, due to the design and how it's used. After 4 or 5 years of seeing very heavy use and being cleaned solely with brass wool and brass tubing, it DOES show a little spot of damage on the edge of the chrome. This damage is the spot where I have dragged the tip against the inside bend radius of hundreds of thousands of SSOP gull wing IC leads.If the tip were to wear out eventually, I would just buy more. It has paid for itself several times over, already.There may be a difference between tips and techniques, too. I am using genuine Hakko tips. And I don't jab into a ball of brass wool. Over the years, my Hakko brass wool is balled up on the left side of the holder. I insert the tip into nothing but air, and swipe it against the brass wool on the way back out. This keeps the wool from catching on the leading edge of the chrome.Aside from the hardness of the wool (which brass is softer than chrome), you also want to avoid too high of a localized pressure at any one point, esp near the edge, while cleaning with something like a brass tube/edge. Getting too much pressure on the chrome can cause the chrome to bend beyond its elastic limit and chip out at the edge.Any rate, a wet sponge or paper towel is not aggressive enough to efficiently clean off the residue, once it has taken hold. The residue is very hard and very brittle (more brittle than the chrome) and is held onto the chrome, mechanically, by locking into surface defects. The brass tube makes short work of it. Once you break it up, the smaller bits are easily wiped and/or dissolved away. The brass tube is pretty close to ideal for "catching" the residue and quickly chipping and cracking it...well before the same would happen to the chrome. As long as you don't exceed the elasticity of the chrome, causing it to chip, you will not do any cumulative damage through abrasion.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 09:50:34 pm
content: Quote from: bobdabiulder on December 11, 2017, 06:20:40 amI had a Hakko 936 and had the same issue that you have. If it is not where you apply solder to make your joints, don't concern yourself, the black stuff won't hurt. If the tip wets fine and works, you're good to go. It may not look pretty but it is more cosmetic than anything else. When the tip stops wetting, replace it and only use genuine Hakko tips, there are way too many issues with 'Fakko' tips. I would also make the switch to lead solder. Tips will last longer because the flux is less aggressive and leaded solder requires less heat. I keep my temp about 600F for lead for my FX-951 and my Metcal. The very little lead free that I do, I have a dedicated 800 series tip for my Metcal, which is 850F. I use Kester 44 63/37 because it's eutectic and when I need extra flux, I use MG Chemicals 835 RMA flux. Hope this helps.

author: bobdabiulder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 02:45:52 am
content: Ok. New picture now. It’s clear that the black stuff is causing the good iron area to shrinkTime for a new tip? Or should I ride this one out?https://photos.app.goo.gl/nIRxshorZ5HEAcwP2

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 03:28:44 am
content: There's nothing visibly wrong with that tip. Just break off the charred residue with a brass edge.QuoteAbove the chrome line, no problem. Below it, it will quite possibly allow the tip to oxidize by preventing that area from taking tin.The working part of that tip is several mils thick iron. If there is anything wrong with it (perhaps it got oxidized underneath all that residue), there's no way it corroded all the way through. Any "damage" to the iron tip is the same kind of "damage" that your steel tools take when they rust. It's just surface rust; it's nothing some fine abrasive can't restore. Just keep the abrasive away from the chrome plating. After chipping off the residue, you can assess any further issues. If the iron isn't taking solder, you can try chemicals (acids, generally), or you can just buff it with abrasives. Wipe it spic and span while hot, let it cool, kapton tape over the chrome, and buff the darkened iron tip with an abrasive compound on some cloth or leather. To really get in there on a deeply corroded spot, you might need to get creative. A bit of 1000 wet dry over a stick, or a fine stone file. Something that will let you precisely work on the problem area. Of course, you will want to tin it, immediately, next time you fire it up.About the only thing you can really mess up on a Hakko tip is to damage the chrome plating. And on a tip like that, you can lose a whole lot of the chrome and it would have little effect. Until there's a crater in the tip all the way thru the iron, and the copper burns up, it's still good. You just have to understand what's wrong and how to fix it. What is ever wrong with the tip is surface rust. How to fix it is to remove the surface rust. Pretty simple.

author: ahbushnell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 03:51:17 am
content: Quote from: IanB on December 11, 2017, 07:35:43 pmI suggest dropping the discussion.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 04:21:56 am
content: They're been including sponges with soldering irons for at least 50 years. I don't think there's anything wrong with using something that works for you.If the OP got enough life out of his tip, and he want to replace it rather than clean it, that's fine, too. Heck, the part of the tip that got covered in burnt residue? That means he wasn't using it, anyway, lol. Why change anything?