wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 11:33:48 pm
content: trained habits feeling like an expertfaulty gloves will give false confidence when 2000V can arc over air (0.5...3mm)melted plastic is worst(100..250degC ) and wont evaporate like waterelectricity is not dangerous but lack of education and (proper)trainingsoon everything will be restricted and dangerous

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 pm
content: The video was at least surprising well researched , and the electrical terminology wasn't too butchered. But the whole stance of "Just don't do it, ever! Even if you're an electrician!" just doesn't resonate, and is maybe a little presumptuous for a middle aged cooking mum channel.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 12:48:59 pm
content: It'll end like it ended with chemical sets. The only chemicals included are sugar, baking soda, vinegar, lemon juice and salt.It's a conspiracy led by cooking mums! We will live in battery-powered homes.Regarding salt... someone should send this mom a link to DiodeGoneWild's channel."Saaaalt... more saaaaalt..."

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 01:08:28 pm
content: Quote from: John B on June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 pmMany electricians have no effing idea how things actually work to be frank. All they do is follow (or violate) the codes and what they were trained to do.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 05:11:47 pm
content: Electroboom could be immortal

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 05:23:43 pm
content: It's old news.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/death-by-fractal-wood-burning/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 05:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: John B on June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 pmJust to be clear, Ann Reardon is NOT a basic “middle aged cooking mum”. She’s a professional food scientist and dietician, worked in food service, as well as being extremely skilled in both food styling and photography. The quality of her videos isspectacular, both in terms of production quality (of the videography) and of the amount of effort and technical skill she puts into the foods shown. (In her debunking videos, she replicates everything they do, no matter how much work it causes, and then shows how to do it properly.) I don’t think I can actually think of any other studio-based YouTube channel that is so well done. Many have high production value but mediocre content quality. Others (like eevblog) don’t bother much with production value, but have superb content. The only other contenders I can think of off the top of my head are Alex (French Guy Cooking), Technology Connections and Techmoan, but I think Ann Reardon is just a bit ahead.Pretty much the only part that’s unscripted is her feeding her victims, er, I mean, her husband and sons, the awful recipes from the content farm how-to videos.As for “don’t do it, even if you’re an electrician”: I completely agree. The only people whose training truly prepares them for this is linemen and maybe industrial electricians. Standard domestic/office electricians don’t work on kilovolt circuits, AFAIK.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2022, 10:28:47 pm
content: I like Clive's video. I think he is on a similar wavelength to myself and presumably many people on this forum in that he recognises something is dangerous, but also acknowledges that human curiosity in something which combines something artistically beautiful with some scary forces of nature, will lead at least some people to try it out. As such, he does his best to explain the dangers and risk minimisation strategies whilst respecting the viewers own volition and personal responsibility.Contrast that with the OP's video, which is more along the lines of "abstinence only"education. Having looked through the comment section of the video yesterday, the general tone of he comments were along the lines of "Oh my god, I had NO idea electricity could be SO dangerous", or people calling for banning and deleting of any comments or content that even suggests that the art can be done in a safe manner (again none of this sits right with me), so perhaps the message of the video is appropriate to the target demographic of her videos.I get the impetus though. A few years back I knew this teenager around 13 years old at the time, who reminded me a lot of myself when I was that age playing around with all kinds of dangerous stuff. He mentioned something about a MOT and I managed to talk him out of playing around with it, without adding the "forbidden fruit" allure to it. Nobody wants to feel responsible if someone else does get injured or killed.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 06:25:32 am
content: For a bit of background, some of Ann Reardon’s most popular videos are debunking junk crafts videos. Several of those videos suggest doing patently dangerous things with molten sugar (like dipping an electric beater into it and turning it on to create threads), which she a) demonstrated the dangers of, and b) showed how to do safely. So it’s not as though she doesn’t want people to do things. I think that for a non-electrical audience, her advice is correct. And for his highly-technical audience, so is Clive’s.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 11:30:47 am
content: Just so you have an idea with what these people are playing with:

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 12:26:24 pm
content: Anne's video is appropriate for her primary audience, Clive's is appropriate for his. If someones only exposure to the inside of a microwave oven has been a sketchy youtube video, with no previous electronics experience, and wants to grab a junk microwave, get some jumper cables and a pair of leather gloves and have at it. 'just dont' is perfectly sound advice.500mA with more than enough voltage is so far into insta-dead territory, you need theory and practical experience to be safe enough.Can the fractal burning be done safely? Of course. For cheap? probably. How to get there is the problem.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 06:24:20 pm
content: I think Clive has the better idea. If you do it at least use a neon sign transformer and give yourself a better chance at surviving a mistake.Not much more expensive than salvaging a MOT, leave the MOTs for the amateur welders

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 06:30:53 pm
content: Quote from: John B on June 20, 2022, 10:28:47 pmNothing makes me want to play with something more than somebody telling me I can't do it and trying to ban me from even talking about it. Banned from discussion I'll go at it alone.For what it's worth, I've played with MOTs many times. They are very dangerous and I respect this. They can be used safely though, millions of people use them every day in their original application and it's just as possible to do other things with them safely.And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 07:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on June 21, 2022, 06:30:53 pmLet's keep in perspective that ratio of those who were killed divided by total users is way lower for bicycles than those who played dumb games with microwave transformer.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 10:19:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 21, 2022, 07:14:19 pmOnly a few people die occasionally when climbing the worlds most dangerous mountain:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnnapurnaBut we should focus on discouraging swimming and say anyone talking about the dangers of mountaineering is over-blowing the risk! lol, 30% vs 0.001% fatality rate.Playing around with anything more than 100V, you'd better know what you are doing. No, a youtube demo is not enough training or information to do it safely. The only way to achieve competency in that sort of work is through one on one training and assessment as there are so many little things that need to be constantly thought about and considered. No magic bullet or simple checklist to be safe when working with exposed conductors for making Lichtenberg patterns in wood (hint, the patterns are from thermal burning, just as it will do to flesh).Remember the below attached image is what ignorant consumers are sold! Low current, safe, warranty. Having been trained and worked on high voltage (and high fault current) live equipment, would I go near such a device? no way. Needs much more to make it safe enough for a trained person let alone an untrained idiot.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 10:31:17 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 21, 2022, 11:30:47 amOoof. Having the MOT plugged in the way he does raises a few concerns. You have to reach underneath the table in which the live MOT is sitting on, you could snag the cable and pull the whole thing off.I would use an extension lead and physically pull the plug to turn it off. That way you turn it on or off while standing back from the unit. It's tedious, but you have a very obvious sign that the setup is de-energised before touching it.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 10:47:53 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on June 21, 2022, 10:19:57 pmNo one would teach a Wood burning, Tesla coils and Jacob ladder training course ... too much liability, not enough profit.Closest to training you can get is books and youtube videos from the tesla coil crowd.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 11:09:30 pm
content: "Certified Tesla Coil Operator"

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 11:24:26 pm
content: Quote from: John B on June 21, 2022, 10:31:17 pmYeah, with this much power it's best to eliminate anything that can possibly go wrong. The rickety workbench in a dimly lit shed is a bad idea all around, I prefer to do that sort of ill advised ozone spewing stuff outside.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 11:26:06 pm
content: Quoteno wood burning,but tesla coils and jacobs ladders certainly made an appearance in the cse physics lessons at my school,then again it was a different era were chemistry included putting things like sodium in water and metal work including casting ,all considered far too dangerous in today's nanny state.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 12:23:41 am
content: Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2022, 10:47:53 pmThere are industries where profit is made, that use routinely high voltages. Enclosures with interlocks is the usual solution, but there are hand held applications:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauterization#ElectrocauteryBut consumers are cheap, ignorant, and selfish: "my friend on facebook did it and they didnt die" so the cycle continues. They never even recognize the danger. This ends up with heavy handed government intervention like restricting supply of things which could be transformed into something dangerous (chemical industry) which is bad for people doing electronics as a hobby or profession. Getting electrical parts at retail is already a bit of a juggle in Australia.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 04:37:17 am
content: Quote from: wraper on June 21, 2022, 07:14:19 pmDo you have any data to support this? I have no idea how many people play with microwave transformers. They are obviously very dangerous and this should be emphasized, but it is not rocket science to use one safely. Discussion should be open and encouraged, that is one way to teach people they are in over their head and teach others how to do what they're going to do anyway safely. People do stupid dangerous stuff all the time and telling them to never do it doesn't stop them.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 04:40:25 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 21, 2022, 11:26:06 pmWhen I was in school we had casting, woodworking, metal shop, in chemistry we made contact explosives and the teacher had a carbide cannon and potato gun among other toys. Part of my 8th grade physical education class was an archery unit where we used real bows and sharp tipped arrows. I bet kids these days don't get to do most of that stuff.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:06:50 am
content: Quote from: james_s on June 22, 2022, 04:37:17 amThe lack of data is an issue, but that makes it worse in many respects, as we don't know the relative risk. I suspect the risk is much higher in those who use a microwave oven transformer for something like wood fractal making, because it's an art and artists are generally less competent in dealing with high voltage than those who make Tesla coils and Jacob's ladders.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:11:10 pm
content: I'm not sure this is really comparable to a NST powered Jacobs ladder or Tesla coil. A MOT has much more bite behind it than a NST, and the end goal of a Tesla coil or Jacobs ladder is usually to watch from a distance in time limited demonstrations, sitting on a shelf in a harmless state most of the time. Not manually poking the output of a roughly 2kV, .5A 50/60Hz power supply into a puddle of salt water.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 06:45:51 pm
content: Quote from: BrokenYugo on June 22, 2022, 06:11:10 pmWhy do people need to get handsy with a MOT? That's the problem I see here. Why not just set up a jig, step away, THEN start the burning? I mean, with some HV stuff like industrial and lineman work, you have no choice sometimes, it has to be on, but someones got a do it. There's no reason people need to be getting all up close and personal with a wood burning machine.

author: Sredni
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 07:28:21 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2022, 06:45:51 pmHow do you take a selfie or make a youtube video with your face in it, if you don't?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 08:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2022, 06:45:51 pmIt seems to me that a good enclosure for this sort of thing is the microwave the transformer came in. Just remove the magnetron, keep the door interlocks intact. If you need to move the probes while it's operating, attach them to plastic rods that pass through holes just large enough for them in the grounded metal cabinet.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 10:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2022, 06:45:51 pmTakes more thought to work more remotely, which requires understanding what you're dealing with in the first place, space, planning, etc. And people are lazy and usually working from limited resources. Without giving any idiots attention by watching some vids, I'll hazard a guess this might happen fast enough it would be tricky to do at MOT power levels without eyes on it and ability to cut power quickly, or requisite skill to build some adjustable one shot timer circuit. Big Clive notes in his video that it can be done more safely with a NST, but it is more fiddly and slower.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 11:18:13 pm
content: A foot pedal seems the way to go, the shrouded kind that gets used to power some kinds of industrial tools.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 01:08:22 am
content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZrynWtBDTE

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 02:33:50 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on July 02, 2022, 01:08:22 amThey've realised they made a mistake and have put it back up.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 06:53:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 02, 2022, 02:33:50 pm*they were called out on their bullshit and did damage control before other channels picked it up. IMO if she just sent an appeal alone, they would have probably done nothing.WARNING: The following is speculation/conspiracy theoryWhy go delete all dangerous hack vids raking in all that dough, when you could just yeet the ones calling them out so the veiws keep pouring in to the sketchy crap. If people get killed doing cappy hacks, oh well, ad views already collected. Should this be grounds for lawsuits? Yes

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 07:09:33 pm
content: It's automated of course. A more logical explanation is her warning video was disliked and reported by the creators of the dodgy videos, causing it to be deleted automatically.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2022, 02:08:25 am
content: If so. Do they(some) do it on purpose, so that someone could get injured like that ?