Old Metcal STSS-PS2V-02 vs. New Aixun, Sugon/Aifen, KSGER etc? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: JHAnd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2023, 11:03:41 am
content: Hi!I want to upgrade my soldering iron. I have been eyeing the usual suspects KSGER, OSS, Sugon/Aifen etc. But now I found an offer for an older Metcal STSS PS2V-02 and wondering if this older model is better then the current offerings from china.I will use it for repairing and DIYing music gear such as: Guitar amps, guitar FX pedals, Mic preamps, guitar cables. So both stuff that might need a bit of heat and also smaller through whole work. I want to be able to do SMD if the need comes up, (some guitar pedals have small parts) but I won't be soldering on laptops or phones.Budget is max ≈150 euros inkl VAT+ shipping.I want tips to last long and think I can do most work with a 2.5mm chisel tip. I might want one larger 5mm chisel tip also and one for SMDs.So I don't think I will need a large variety of tips, just want them to last.I have these options to consider:Metcal STSS PS2V-02As mentioned this is an older model and suspect that I could get it quite cheap from auction including two used tips and a stand that may or may not have sleep function. I'm guessing it doesn't?I don't know if sleep function is important for metcal, they seem to behave differently because of the curie tech.Also metcal tips seem to last long at least what I can gather from forum opinions.Here's a pic of the stand:https://imgur.com/a/jv13NzEIf the stand that comes with the iron is not a sleep stand, I might have to buy this stand for 84 euro which makes it a lot more expensive and comparable in price to the more expensive to the chinese options such as Aixun T3Ahttps://se.farnell.com/en-SE/metcal/ws1/soldering-iron-stand-for-mx500/dp/1341341Other options I'm considering are the various chinese models:these prices are incl VAT and shipping to swedenAixun T3A-128 eurwith newer standhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004651501938.htmlSeems very popular and good quality.Can take both T12 and T245 handles/tipsAixun T3AS-111 eurhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005686224921.htmlNot tested by anyone yet.T245 onlySugon/Aifen A9 Pro 2023-130 eurhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005520949997.htmlSeems to be quite good quality, nice stand with brass wool in good angle, and cheaper then Aixen in most storesT245, T210, T115 handles/tipsSugon/Aifen A8T1295 eurhttps://katemedia.pl/en/home/2783-soldering-station-aifen-a8-for-t12-soldering-tips-75w.htmlPricier then KSGER and OSS for a T12 station but with a real sleep stand (no shake sensor), a place to put brass wool in the stand (at a good angle), and seems good quality overall.KSGER 3.1ST12 (don't want to mess with custom firmware)67 eurhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000453770565.htmlCheap option for T12. KSGER clone tips seem OK. Have to ground case but not a big problem.Not sure I like the shake to wake function and that it has to have 1m before sleep.What are your opinions on the sleep system in the KSGER and OSS? Are you annoyed by it or does it work OK?I read of some people having to shake it many times for it to wake.OSS T12-XT1278 eurhttps://katemedia.pl/en/home/1094-soldering-station-oss-t12-x-72w.htmlTip seems grounded, handle seems good. Same shake to wake sleep system as with KSGER.My thoughts so faron metcal vs t245 vs t12 after lurking on the forums for a while:I see some people preffering T12 stations vs JBC style because T12 clone tips are cheaper and of better quality then JBC clone tips. So if going for a 245 system I would have to buy genuine tips, increasing cost.Also I have read several times that JBC tips are not as durable as metcal or others. Not sure how Genuine T12 vs genuine JBC tips compare, but I have read something about JBC having thinner plating then other manufacturers to get that fast response time at the expense of tip longevity.Metcal seems to have a lot of power and have good results even when using undersized tip for the job. Tips are supposedly very reliable and about the same price as genuine JBC. Thermaltronics make tips that work in metcal also, but I don't know what tips would work in the STSS.I dont know the heat up time of the Metcal STSSIf the JBC take 3-4s to heat and T12 takes 6-8s then I don't think that makes much of a difference to me.Metcal I have a hard time knowing what to think. At first I ruled out Metcal because of the fixed temps, but after some more reading people seem to think that the set temps are a good thing even and the curie tech is superior because of how it can tackle everything without sweating. Also I read that tips last longer because of this tech?I don't know if all the praise for metcal i read is applicable to the older model I'm looking at vs the newer chinese stations.Sorry for the long scatterbrained post,Main question is should i get the above metcal or one of the chinese stations?Any thoughts?Thanks!

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2023, 09:32:26 pm
content: If you were in NA I would say definitely get the STSS if it can be had for <$150 with everything. As access to metcal tips in NA is easy and cheap ($18/ea). The only thing is where you are it might be expensive and hard to find tips.The stand is likely not a sleep stand but can easily be made by gluing on a few magnets.Heatup time of STSS is 8-10s, slower, but actual performance is the same or better than T245 during actual use.I have one A9 245 for $100, its good other than the tip is not earthed so I had to manually mod the board to earth it:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005003311588074.htmlBut if you don't want to deal with that, or don't want a stand and station integrated together, could get aixun 245.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 06:54:02 pm
content: I use a Metcal and would have a hard time going back to a conventional soldering station. It is just that good. In fact I keep a spare power supply around just in case the main one fails, so I never need to drag the old Weller out of storage. My Metcal (old MX-500 power supply, STTC-101 tip as example) will heat to soldering temperature from cold in about 10 seconds. If using a sleep stand, it heats back up to soldering temperature as fast as you can physically move it from the stand to the work.You can modify a regular stand to provide sleep by installing a Neodymium magnet into the stand near the tip's resting location. You can test the effectiveness of the placement with a thermocouple on the tip. It's not hard to get this to work effectively.The fixed temperature has never been an issue for me. Not long after I started using the Metcal I realized that the main reason that I used to adjust temperature is to crank it up for big or difficult joints. The Metcal doesn't need this. The heating element is only a few mm away from the actual tip and has a great thermal interface (solid metal since the heater and tip are one). There is no lag from a thermal sensor-controller-heater control loop. Instead, the instant that the tip begins to drop in temperature from touching the joint, it begins to absorb more energy from the power supply (which is always providing RF energy) and just seems to pump heat into the work, without over-heating it. I do have a couple of 600 and even a 500 series tip for delicate jobs, but I can't remember the last time I used one. I mainly use the 100 series tips (nominally 700 degree F).The Metcal desoldering gun MX-DS1 is just as amazing as the soldering irons, maybe even more so. The desoldering gun is powered from the same power supply (a dual output or switchable power supply like MX-500 or 5000 series is much more convenient) in addition to compressed air. There is no vacuum pump.

author: JHAnd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 07:36:26 pm
content: I didn't win the auction for the metcal unfortunately. Perhaps next time... I think I could have bidded higher if I had read you post about modding the stand with magnets, which would lower the cost significantly. Now that I know that I will take that into account in future bidding.You are right about the metcal tips being expensive here in Sweden... a STCC 2.5 mm chisel tip isabout 45 dollars w. VAT and shipping from elfa.seIs the STSS is compatible with the same tips and handpieces as the MX500?I think I prefer the stand to be movable from the base unit like on Metcal and Aixun T3A. Metcal stand providing sleep even without connection cord to main unit is even cooler, less stuff getting in the way.The C245 tips and original Hakko T12 tips are about the same price as the metcal STCC when comparing a basic 2.5mm chisel.T12clonetips are probably the most economical since they are supposedly of OK quality.What do you think of Pace WSJ100? The Pace handles look similar to Metcal with small tip to handle distance.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2023, 09:43:29 pm
content: STSS, PS2E, MX500, MX5000 are all essentially compatible.T12 clone tips are definitely the most economical if you want a wide range of styles. C245 clones seem to be on that pathas well.Not really enough people own the WSJ100 to be able to comment here, I'm sure its fine. But again, unsure about sourcing tips outside of NA. In US they are reasonably priced, $17.edit: aixun are claiming their tips are more robust than JBC, they are $12 each

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2023, 12:49:00 am
content: I bought at Ksger T12 and love it after I modded it. Grounding the case, more clearance to the heatsink. I use only genuine Hakko tips direct from Hakko so I know I don't get fakes. They aren't that expensive and the selection is good. Sometimes they have a 10% off sales and free shipping too.https://hakkousa.com/products/soldering.html?cat=378&series=67&product_list_order=price

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2023, 02:35:35 am
content: Quote from: JHAnd on June 20, 2023, 07:36:26 pmI have the Pace WJS100, and will highly recommend it. An extremely good, high-powered station. You must use the Pace 1128 series tips with this unit. IIRC, these are 120W cartridges vs the 70W ratings for the Hakko T12/T15 cartridges. The closest performing Hakko cartridge is the T22, which comes in at 140W.

author: slavoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2023, 07:32:39 am
content: Honestly, with such a budget, I don't recommend going for either an old Metcal or JBC. T12 will be more than sufficient for your needs. JBC/Metcal might offer better performance, but the practical difference and the associated costs are not justified for someone on a budget. Simply buy a good T12 unit with a reliable stand and sleep mode. I can recommend AiXun T3A and OSS T12XPlus. AiXun has its own software for PC and frequently releases updates for their soldering stations. Other Chinese brands do not have this capability.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2023, 06:50:54 pm
content: Here's a thought:The work you have described is not demanding from a standpoint of requiring high-precision, high thermal needs (ie multilayer PCBs) or production line 24/7 operation.People who have strict budgets cannot afford to purchase mickey mouse equipment just to have it fail prematurely and need replacement, or spend all of their time just trying to make it work properly.At your stated budget, why not just purchase a (GENUINE, not some clone!) brand-new Hakko FX888D? A very competent, reliable little soldering station from a very reputable manufacturer. Genuine parts are available just about everywhere, and tips are dirt cheap and last forever. On my own benches I have JBC CD-1B, Hakko FM-203HD and Pace WJS100 stations. So, what's been in my go-bag for fieldwork for at least five+ years now? An FX888D...Sure, it doesn't have the prestige of cartridge tips, isn't the coolest looking critter on the block, and it does take a bit more time and care to change out a hot tip (and really, how often do we actuallyneedto do that?) but unless you are answering to some tightwad of a boss who is counting the seconds, who cares anyway?Again, just a thought

author: JHAnd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 07:13:56 am
content: You have a good point, however a Hakko 888D costs 174 Euros without tips. I know Hakko is a lot cheaper in the US.For that kind of money or even less, I might as well get a station with newer cartridge type tips and sleep mode.The only downside is that it is not original as you say, warranty will be harder or impossible to claim if something breaks.On my current station I power it off when done with a solder joint and power it on before doing the next. I imagine sleep mode with a stand will be more ergonomical.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2023, 09:42:30 pm
content: FX888D would not be my first choice for field work. Slow to heat up, no sleep mode, and not capable of being battery powered.

author: Arts
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2023, 09:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 26, 2023, 09:42:30 pmHeats up in under a minute. I'm not in that big a hurry.Sleep mode is something you need for a bench unit; I don't plan to make a career out of a repair.I don't need battery operation, I work inthefield, not inafield. We have electricity.

author: BlackICE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2023, 01:07:10 am
content: I used a weller 1010na before my Ksger t12 that I see as very similar to the 888. Now I only use the Weller when I need to use 2 irons at the same time. Too slow to heat up, harder to change tips, worthless sleep function. You have to push a button to wake it up. Also the handle to tip distance is longer so harder to control. That said it solder about the same to me as the T12 and the Ksger needs user mods to make it safer. Note I also modded my Weller adding a fuse to the primary side of the transformer. Watch Dave's video of one smoking after he plugged a 120v unit into over 200V!

author: heygeorge
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2023, 09:44:28 am
content: AiXun T3A has exceeded my expectations in every way.https://www.aixuntech.com/product/t3a-temperature-controlled-quick-soldering-station-with-t12-936-handle/One thing that really stands out is the temperature control. It's incredibly accurate and consistent, allowing me to work on delicate projects with confidence. The quick heat-up time is impressive as well, saving me valuable time during my soldering tasks.T3AS is with a new integrated design but an economical price.

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2023, 12:13:06 pm
content: +1 for Metcal.happy with Metcal Mx 500 with Mx H1 Av Hand piece and Mx DS1 De soldering gun.About T12, i started with the Bakon t12 station and used it for 3 years with lots of clone t12 tips from ksger, quicko etc. it was working okay for me (still working after all those years i think 7 years now but now lives in my tool bag cause its small size is perfect for travel). After that i upgraded to the T12X by OSS team.T12X is a complete Soldering station compared to the Bakon t12. The handle is really nice just like the Metcal's one but is made of plastic with real nice silicone cable, had it's own compatible stand with place for sponge and brass cleaning thingy + 6 holes for keeping your 6 favorite tips in stand. The control unit had all the features that you would find normally in these t12 station. it can sustained 40 to 46 watt output power(tested on the back of a big IGBT modulewith 5mm chisel tip). overall it is a really nice station for low hour work.i have now upgraded to real metcal mx500 soldering station and been happy with it too. Mx Ds1 de soldering gun is awesome as well as the advanced H1 AV hand piece too.Just my 2 cent...

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2023, 12:23:17 pm
content: Quote from: fkfaraz on July 22, 2023, 12:13:06 pmsome pic from my collection, u can see t12 x control unit in some of the unit+its stand...

author: fkfaraz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2023, 12:25:17 pm
content: some more pic's

author: Prizmatic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2023, 11:25:57 am
content: I bought that upgraded handle for my T12 Quicko. The first thing to fail was the mercury tilt switch, the glass was cracked (presumably from factory) and the mercury/contacts in it oxidised, then the contacts inside the handle became intermittent and I had to regularly re-seat the tip to get it to work. The strain relief on the handle is a joke and the cable freely twists around which led to a broken wire. I got sick of it, shelved it as a spare and bought a Thermaltronics/Metcal.