Free Energy Scams and Fakes - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:10:13 pm
content: Lately, I have been seeing quite a few free energy scams or claims with some really crazy ass circuits and contraptions which claim to provide free or perpetual energy. What is up with these idiots? Are people buying into this and sending these people money? Or are they delusional and really believe this is possible. If you have any good stories of crack pot ideas or ridiculous looking circuits please post them. This is getting quite humorous to me!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:27:02 pm
content: No different than the 'Nigerian' scams going on every day in the ham radio community. W.C. Fields said that there is a sucker born every minute. Why should electronics and free energy be any different.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 23, 2014, 11:10:13 pmYeah, I used to go browsing YouTube for over-unity just for entertainment. Except after a while Google thought I was really into that stuff so the ads and suggestions became rather focussed. Now I stay away, afraid to trigger that part of Google again.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:33:59 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 23, 2014, 11:27:02 pmI never heardthisattributed to W.C. Fields before. It is usually (wrongly?) attributed to P.T. Barnum.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:39:37 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on January 23, 2014, 11:31:06 pmLOL, That's exactly what's happening to me now!!!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 23, 2014, 11:10:13 pmYep, that's why the persist.QuoteMany of them do unfortunately. A seller who passionately believes this stuff works is probably more dangerous than a straight out crook.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:47:20 pm
content: I actually get quite a few emails a year from people have have bought into these free energy scams (Steorn? Orbo for example), and want an independent opinion on whether they work and should continue to invest etc. I don't enjoy telling them they've been had.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 11:01:04 am
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 23, 2014, 11:10:13 pmLutec from Australia is my favorite :-)edit:http://www.rexresearch.com/christie/christie.htm

author: Icarus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:07:27 pm
content: People have some weird tendencies. They want to invest their money to things that they have no idea.For Instance, If you are going to open a dinner, you should be a good at cooking. So when your chef quit, you should be able to keep cooking.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:00:48 pm
content: There's a lot of them! I'm guessing that part of the videos are just troll physics, some are ad-money grabbers and some are investor magnets. But some of them look really great, like this one:http://hackaday.com/2013/11/30/gravity-powered-generator-real-or-fake/

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:28:22 pm
content: Proving that perpetual energy exists is like proving Bigfoot exists. Where is the scientific proof that these work? Show me a machine that uses no input energy and produces 500 watts out! It's give and take, some type of energy is needed to produce a reaction, and there are always losses. Some losses may be smaller than others, but there are losses. Solar is not free energy, the sun is burning fuel and radiating that energy with losses. Magnets require energy to produce, even small machines that attempt to operate off magnets are still not producing more than they have put in, and again with losses. Ugh!

author: nuhamind2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:24:04 pm
content: This kind of scam has taken a university as victim in my country. The rector resign after the scam exposed, yet they insist they are not scammed instead "breach of cotract".

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: dfmischler on January 23, 2014, 11:33:59 pmYou are correct, yet another senior moment. Actually, they are not senior moments any more, they are all the time.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:33:03 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on January 24, 2014, 01:00:48 pmNice, this is some really impressive CGI worksee their webpage:http://rarenergia.com.brI wonder which program they used. Of course, they were a bit sloppy with this image:http://rarenergia.com.br/imagem11a.JPGThe lights and shadows look very wrong and the workers as photoshoped into the image.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 01:28:22 pmI rather think you are preaching to the converted on this forum, Eric.I also think that few of the nutbars currently wasting their time on this nonsense believe the free energy they will very soon be harvesting is being created from nowhere, or can be extracted without losses.There is generally some foggy notion of a vast pool of gravitational energy, or zero point energy, or whatever. Tapping into this will overcome the mechanical losses in their revolutionary gadget and also provide the floods of free power which make them rich any moment now.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:39:20 pm
content: My workshop aircon unit uses 1.6kW of electricity to produce 5.5kW of heat. Stick a load of efficient thermocouples in series between the hot and cold bits of the heat pump and BAM! Free electricity. Easy.Kickstarter anyone?

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 02:49:38 pm
content: Youtube is full of people that are all about free energy etc... I saw a video about a ball bearing motor (you have a shaft on two bearings, apply DC or AC across the bearings, and the localized heating where the bearing contacts the race causes expansion and the motor to spin, but its not self starting) A simple physics demonstration, that Ive seen in the past. But there are people insisting that:A) its an induction motor (never mind the fact current is running though the rotor, and there is no windings...)B) its a homopolar motor (better guess than induction but still wayyy too much friction for that)c) people who say its a scam (fair enough, enough crap on youtube to be doubtful first)And last, but certainly not least:D) The BEDINI MOTOR OVERUNITY, YOU CAN USE THIS WITH PULSER CIRKIT TO GET 4-10V OF POWER AND TO CHARGE AND SUSTAIN ITS OWN POWER SUPPLY.Gah, I see all sorts of stuff that makes me ask 'why!' People winding all sorts of elaborate motors and windings, and magnets, and so much effort put into it just to fart around, where if they put that much effort into learning the underlying physics, then they wouldnt even need to mess with this and could do something productive with their time. I know 4hv has to actively chase off the overunity crowd. Though I'm sure they find the simple winding of a tesla coil secondary passe and boring by now :pQuote from: lewis on January 24, 2014, 02:39:20 pmIts fun to use careful wording to get the ire of physics teachers/etc in school. "5.5 KW out, 1.6 KW in, thats 344 percent efficiency!"You can tell that in their heads they are thinking 'YOU CANT BE OVER 100% EFFICIENT EVER, GAH! 'So they use the term "Coefficient of performance" for heat pumps, so above heatpump would have a CoP of 3.44, and it doesnt tweak the over 100% efficiency nerve

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 03:15:54 pm
content: It all comes down to "The Law of Conservation of Energy". You can't argue with physics!

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 03:18:34 pm
content: The real problem I see with the free energy , is that it takes away from any alternative energy sources getting a foothold and helping with are moving to better other sources , especially decentralize or distributive energy .I think there was a point in recent history , that education made people resistant to BS , but the powers that be / or want to be , have use the DUMBING DOWN in the schools , to make it easier to bull crap the masses .What is the worst thing about the believers = people who have limited knowledge fall into being sheep !Just my understanding of why we are not reaching almost any potential , most the corruption of greed .The classic definition of propaganda = if you can not hide the truth / you mix it with so many lies that no one will figure it out .

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 03:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 24, 2014, 03:18:34 pmWell it seems you've fallen for a bullshit of your own choosing as well - the conspiracy theory bullshit.There is no concerted effort to make mankind stupid. Mankind is stupid enough by itself. And if a tendency can be explained away by plain old human idiocy and good-intentioned bad decisions, then according to Occam's razor, one should not hypothesize the existence of some secret, undetectable pink invisible spaghetti monster that plots and conspires to make people stupid and immoral through media and education.EDIT: Actually, I think the anti-establishment conspiracy theory thought that you too are advocating, is the main reason people are more prone to believing scams these days. The reason selling over-unity scam stuff was harder 50 years ago (was it?) is not that people were smarter, but that people trusted science and scientists.Nowadays, if a physics professor stands up and speaks out against over-unity scams, many will simply dismiss him as "a pawn of the powers that be / big oil / the reptilian space jews" or whatever.Conversely, an underdog "inventor" con artist, who is borderline schizophrenic, blames all sorts of outside interference, and says something totally contrary to any accepted tenet of science, sounds "authentic" to many, because he's an underdog, and because he goes against the authorities... which makes him a "good guy".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 04:05:17 pm
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on January 24, 2014, 03:50:11 pmKeeping people stupid is a well known method to control people. Look at how religion works and how religion doesn't want science to explain nature.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 04:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 24, 2014, 04:05:17 pmWhich religion? Anyway, conspiracy theory and anti-establishmentism IS a religion of its own, and one of the more vicious ones.(Even hardliner islamists tend to inoculate their children against diseases. Conspiracy theorists often don't.)

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 04:23:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 24, 2014, 04:05:17 pmThat's part of my use of the term believers , I think the potential for narrow minded thinking , or my term mono- theistic-thinking .I would be happy to be convince that there are not some of these conspiracies , I put the challenge to you , but with the hateful tone it would be highly unlikely - starting off on the wrong foot .I personally try to avoid even the concept of believing in my own mind and try to use in its place understanding .Much like science vs. believing I am open to new information to calibrate my thinking vs. believing and having the blinders on and being hateful of anything that does not conform to my view .

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 04:52:15 pm
content: First, define "free energy". Perpetual (or nearly perpetual) motion is indeed possible (the Earth orbiting in space is one!), but you can't extract energy from it and still have perpetual motion.If you define free energy as any energy that costs nothing in itself, you actually have alternative energy.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 24, 2014, 04:52:15 pmI am mainly referring to perpetual energy or energy from apparently nothing or motion that self powers with no reduction in speed or loss. The earth is fueled by energy from the sun and other forces which influence the rotation (Even this slows over time). In space where there is zero gravity atomic particles still exist therefore collisions and some resistance will be encountered. I will admit, these forces are small but not truly perpetual. Even light traveling for millions of light years can be distorted and altered by these obstacles.I have no problem with alternate forms of energy when they are practical and proven to work. I also agree that highly efficient forms of energy do exist, but they fall short of true perpetual.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on January 24, 2014, 04:23:28 pmI'm also open to new information, however I tend to filter that information based on my knowledge of psychology, sociology, and the source of said "new information".And well, if you think my tone was "hateful", I think you should re-examine your own psychology. The very definition of religion is a set of beliefs that are deeply integrated with one's self - thus attacking one's religion equates a deep and personal attack against the core of his being, that provokes not rational debate, but a kneejerk reflex of self-preservation. Are you sure you aren't invested in certain beliefs beyond rationality?As for the existence or nonexistence of conspiracies, yes, our world is full of conspiracies, criminal and legal. People conspire to steal business from competitors, to drive prices up or down according to their needs, to rob a bank, or to win the next election.Some of this conspiring is indeed damaging to the public good, and should be uncovered and the participants punished accordingly.However, there is no great overarching conspiracy of some great new world order or secret "powers that be". As the NSA has recently demonstrated, humans are exceptionally bad at keeping secrets, and the larger a conspiracy is, the more likely it is for its cover to be blown. The idea that there is some kind of overarching conspiracy controlling all media, education, science and governments is more improbable than the existence of an old angry Jew who made humans out of clay, or the existence of a flying spaghetti monster.As for stupidity, there is nothing new about it. What is new is that with the profit-orientation of commercial media, and the ultra-egalitarian thought of the last few decades, the stupidity of the masses, the subconscious of mankind, has bubbled up into the mainstream. This is horrible, and does have some masterminds behind it (such as programming directors of major media companies), but was driven by a mundane desire to sell more advertisements, put more (stupid) people in front of TV screens, and keep them there - instead of some kind of new world order fantasy.As for the decline in the level of school education in the US, I think its main driving force was egalitarianism and anti-authoritarianism, which are cute, happy hippie ideologies, but sometime result in pretty bad decisions. (Eg. "school should be easier so as not to make anyone feel stupid", or "children with below-average abilities should also get a sense of success from school", or "let's not torture children with too much material to be learned, they need more time to play and have fun", etc.)Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 24, 2014, 04:52:15 pmYes, you can get "free energy" from the Sun or from geothermic sources...That's renewable energy for you. What people normally call "free energy" though is the scams that are promoted by misguided or downright criminal inventors and businesspeople, claiming to provide unlimited energy based on some kind of new esoteric theory that usually directly contradicts (and is proudly presented as contradicting) thermodynamic principles.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:26:04 pm
content: What do you think of this patent?http://www.google.com/patents/US6532740I guess it is possible to generate energy with the coriolis effect, but how much and what size has this machine to be? And the construction in the patent looks complicated, would it be possible to use something simpler, like Foucault's pendulum?

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:33:29 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on January 24, 2014, 05:26:04 pmKeep in mind, you can patent anything, it does not have to work.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:38:15 pm
content: The ones that make me laugh the most are the ones that harness 'wasted energy' from power lines and RF signals. I wonder if they'd notice and extra loading on the grid if someone put a few hundred thousand old fluorescents out by some pylons.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on January 24, 2014, 05:38:15 pmHa, good one. I don't think that it would do anything to the grid load because it's not drawing power from the circuit, The EMF is just merely exciting the atoms in the gas to produce light. Might be cool to see something like that though!

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:53:55 pm
content: Sigmoid , my impression is that you are reading much more into what I am saying , your studies should make you aware that with limited knowledge of an individual and having a " knee-jurk " response to a statement in a sentence or paragraph and assuming [ remember the acronym ] .That is very problematic in this type of interaction , where there is a lack of all the other communication functions like sight or body language , instant response / replies etc.I agree with a portion of your statements , but then you seem to read much from your own mind to what I was saying and inferring .As far as conspiracies , I do not have the idea of one , or there is a domination from one source - I think that comes from the mono-thinking mind , which from my experiences seems to come from religion and to me again religion is a western concept .Again this is the wrong type of medium for me to communicate a deep subject like these so I will limit as best as I can .As far my view of religion , it is a man made concept to cover for the lack of understanding in times of old , and has lot s of good philosophies / stories but the power over others has corrupted it , so along with modern knowledge / understanding I left it behind a long time ago after many yrs. of searching .If that is insulting to others , that is not the intent .My idea of insulting is the we can only insult ourselves , either by our statements / actions or accepting other peoples ideas - therein lies the problem - taking others view as our own and taking offense if we do not like other peoples views .Which ties into the idea of mono-theistic thinking has caused so many issues over time - do not take other perspectives as offense , threat or whatever , just thats who / what they are and you can chose to use there personalities as another perspective or worldview to learn from or not , its just an attempt to understand or not .I think there can be a danger in trying to figure out crazy , you may go nutsHopefully back to finding many good energy sources .

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 06:00:50 pm
content: I think the overunity scams are relatively benign compared to Rossi's E-CAT ... the hoaxers who realize that they can just use gullible (or corruptible) academics to get the media to treat them with respect do far more economic damage than the "everyone is trying to suppress us" overunity nuts.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 06:37:24 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pmIt can make for a significant load near field (that's how RFID and NFC work by altering the Q of the transmitting coil), but not far field. But you can't get very much from the far field...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pmConsider this more carefully. The alternating electric field is doing work on the atoms in the gas to excite them and cause them to emit radiation. From the first law of thermodynamics the energy to do that work has to come from somewhere. In this case it is the power line. However minuscule it is, there is in fact an energy drain on the conductor when you hold a gas discharge tube nearby and make it light up. To make an electric lamp light up you do have to feed power into it, or you would be getting energy from nowhere--which is the subject of this thread

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 06:49:40 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on January 24, 2014, 05:38:15 pmThis reminds me: a green / leftist political party from the NL coined a plan in their election campaign to put wind turbines on trains to recoup the energy!

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pmI am not saying that the energy is coming from nowhere. It is, the power lines! What I am saying is that HV power lines are emitting a fairly high level of EMF which is enough to excite the atoms in a gas tube. This energy is there all the time and is part of the loss from transmission lines. What I was saying, is that whether you have 1 FL tube or 300,000 FL tubes all lined up under the wires it should not effect the grid anymore than 1. Lets say I had (theoretically) 10,000 mW/M^2, and this was the energy that existed all along the HV power lines in question. Adding more of less in the way of gas tubes under these power lines would utilize the energy available but would not pull more from the grid. If I am wrong, please explain.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:19:22 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pmWhere does the energy go when it's not lighting up fluorescent tubes?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:25:03 pm
content: The energy is stored in the capacitance of the line to ground. The energy is returned to the system. Adding the lights will add to the voltage drop along the line and will show up in the power factor of the line. There have been some prosecutions for this under the "Theft of electricity" laws in most countries.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:29:31 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on January 24, 2014, 07:19:22 pmIt would be absorbed into the ground or other structures that might exist in close proximity. Think of it like a radio transmission but at much lower frequencies. If a radio transmission tower is broadcasting a signal at 50,000 watts, the energy that is being received by 1 radio or 1,000,000 radios does not change the wattage draw on the tower, right?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:32:46 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:29:31 pmMy suspicion is that it actually does, by an immeasurably small amount. I mean, yes, most of it is absorbed into the ground and such, but a resonant receiver like a radio is going to absorb it slightly more efficiently than dirt.The transmitter won't consume more power, but that's due to its non-feedback topology, not the fact that there is more being drawn. The output signal strength would be decreased very slightly instead of the transmitter increasing power to compensate. If you brought a trillion radios into the vicinity all tuned to the same frequency, I suspect transmit power would need to be increased.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 24, 2014, 07:25:03 pmWould this theft be the result of induction or physical access into the grid? I understand that their is a return through the ground, but I did'n't think it would be all that noticeable on with the grid monitoring systems unless it was considerable.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:53:44 pm
content: As far as the radio waves , my ham radio SWAG - scientific wild ass guess .Once the radio wave is transmitted , it exists in space / atmosphere , the makeup of the atmosphere at the moment of transmission is called propagation or is the resistive load that the power at the transmitter is trying overcome .The power applied is determined by the desired performance of the operator .In ham radio there are 2 extremes QRP - 5 watts or less and then max allowed depending on mode , band and rules of the origination of signal .In QRP using mode CW - morse code , and good propagation and the correct band , ham radio goes around the world and is not so strong that it is going to interfere much .With broadcast , they are on a set frequency within a set band - AM , FM etc. and there intent is to reach a large number so they are allowed huge power .Receiving has no affect on transmission at all .

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: lewis on January 24, 2014, 02:39:20 pmFunny that, I actually heard a friend of a friend considering that as a viable basis for perpetual motion machine design after "discovering" the very same thing while reading his aircon unit's user manual. Only he wasn't joking...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pmThere is a certain loss from power lines due to various factors, but if you make the power line do work by lighting up a bulb the loss will be increased.The power line forms a capacitor to the ground with air being the dielectric material. As you know a perfect capacitor in an AC circuit consumes no power. It is only when the capacitor is imperfect (when it has a resistive component, an equivalent series resistance, ESR) that it then has power losses.Placing a fluorescent tube in the electric field minutely increases the ESR of the line-to-ground capacitor and therefore minutely increases the power losses.Note here we are not considering electromagnetic radiation, we are considering an alternating electric field between the "plates" of a capacitor. A power line does not "emit" a field, it creates a field. It would "emit" radiation, or EMR, but at such a low frequency the emission of radiation is of extraordinarily low power. Not enough to light a bulb.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on January 24, 2014, 07:57:55 pmIn the US, HVAC equipment is rated in BTU/hr or tons, so as not to confuse the average consumer.

author: Terabyte2007
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:50:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 24, 2014, 07:59:59 pmYes, you are correct. I did not take into consideration the electric field in my prior post. I was focused on the radiated energy rather than the capacitively coupled electric field to ground. I would guess if you were to place enough bulbs in the field it would change the ESR but the question is how many would it take to set off alarms on the grid monitoring station?Good answer btw.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:51:51 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 24, 2014, 08:29:26 pmThat makes sense. But to this day I wonder what weird combination of smart-assery, arrogance and ignorance does it take to get you into even considering for a briefest of moments that the smart guys who designed it, measured it and then put the two figures next to each other in the freakin' spec sheet, somehow "overlooked" the fact that they accidentally designed a free energy device and now all it takes for you to claim the eternal fame and profit is to connect output to the input. Now I just cannot take anything this guy says seriously.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2014, 05:04:47 am
content: It might not be measurable easily but the mere act of actively using the power without having either a connection or a meter is what is used in the charge. This has been used for people using a phone to make calls that were not authorised, or even for charging a person who rented a shed without power who turned on the light inside.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2014, 05:29:25 am
content: I've been hearing a lot about Thorium reactors being the next big thing. I'm likely to believe that they are a real possibility because I've even seen Bill Gates talking about them, apparently they were working on them in the 1970s but the Watergate scandal happened and they lost their funding.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2014, 06:44:12 am
content: If you really want some free to you power, take a clamp meter to your ground stake, mine currently has 13A flowing in to it, meaning one of my neighbors neutrals have gone open circuit, however if i where to put this through a rectifier and a boost converter i am quite sure i could get at least 100W out of it before it started adding enough of a voltage drop to make him get it investigated,

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2014, 12:02:48 pm
content: How about investing US$ 11 million into cold fusion (LENR):http://coldfusion3.com/blog/it%E2%80%99s-official-us-startup-admits-to-purchasing-rossi%E2%80%99s-e-cat-lenr-technology

author: Mazda
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 12:30:19 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 27, 2014, 12:02:48 pmyoujust don’t like it cos it's going to replace Windmills.imo its real

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 01:03:21 pm
content: What - Rossi's process of turning nickel into copper and in the process release energy? Won't happen.I sincerely recommend that you familiarize with the nuclear binding energy tables freely available, in the net, e.g. here:http://physics.tutorvista.com/modern-physics/nucleon.html. You can see that unlike the light nuclei such as hydrogen fusing to helium and thereby powering the sun, fusing anything heavier that iron (Fe) will require extra energy instead of releasing any. That is indicated by the downward slope of the curve beyond iron. Nickel is just heavier that iron and copper more so; fusing Ni to Cu won't produce any energy. But this is apparently too difficult for the greedier investors to grasp and conveniently "forgotten" by Rossi & co.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 01:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pmI think IanB is right - putting lots of fluros near HV powerlines would drain some energy from the line.Air is a good insulator, because it has low electron mobility. Means as a dielectric, it's relatively non-lossy.But fluros, in an E field strong enough to ionize some of the gas molecules, have long mean free paths of the electrons. High electron mobility means as a dielectric medium, fluros are really lossy. The E field is doing work accelerating electrons, and that energy gets turned into heat and light (feebly.) That power is gone, not coming back.How many fluros it would take to drain one extra Watt from a 330KV 50Hz power line at say 10meters distance, I don't know. Probably a lot. But it definitely would drain power.What would the equivalent circuit be? A wire carrying an AC voltage in free space, with frequency low enough to allow neglecting EM wave transmitting losses and reflectances, can be represented as a capacitor - the capacitance to nearby objects, or infinity, right?But with the fluros and their mobile electrons, the capacitor gets a (small) series resistor, representing the loss of energy from the field.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on January 24, 2014, 02:33:03 pmOh my! But... it's NOT CGI. I've just spent half an hour staring at these images, and I'm pretty good at spotting image fl... sigh yeah, seen a few shops in my time, pixels etc. . But if those are fake they are _brilliant_ and the authors could make a living doing CGI and don't need to pretend to build... what _is_ that thing?Also, if it's CGI, where's the brilliant animation of it running? Because I really really want to see that that thing turning over. Just can't visualize it, after it got complicated.I too like looking at free energy scams for fun and giggles. That's definitely a great one to follow. So much girder! Such complex! Very bolts!They are going to be sooooo pissed when it does nothing.Alternatively, I'm going to be so entertained if it does work.One of my favorite 'free energy' amusements, are the web adverts starting "power companies hate this!" Then they have a photo of some technical device. Most of which are easily identified, but a few are quite difficult to identify.An article about those scams here:http://pesn.com/2012/12/02/9602223_Power-Companies-Will-Hate-This_Scam/

author: Mazda
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 02:53:09 pm
content: Quote from: Kremmen on January 28, 2014, 01:03:21 pmNo , that statement is somewhat misleading/ misunderstanding : the transmutation part is more of a side-effect.this is an interesting read :https://sites.google.com/site/lenrforthewin/home/are-low-energy-nuclear-reaction-devices-real

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 03:22:25 pm
content: I'm open minded, I'm willing to consider the possibility of LENR ... but if you think Rossi is anything but a fraud your brain flew out.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 03:36:02 pm
content: QuoteAll in all - very wow, so money!QuoteA Rube Goldberg paper shredder?QuoteI'm honestly confused about the whole Rossi thing. I'm not that much into the finer points of nuclear science to be closed to the possibility, but heseemsto be getting more serious investors. Mind you, I'm having a little trouble finding ANYTHING about Industrial Heat, LLC, which is a little weird, not even having a functioning site... or any news from non-free energy sites about the tech or its investors.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 03:42:56 pm
content: I doubt those guys running the fund have skin in the game ... the actual money almost certainly comes from people who are not sophisticated investors (probably quite a few pensioners).

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2014, 04:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mazda on January 28, 2014, 02:53:09 pmPardon me but it _cannot_ be a side effect if we are talking about nuclear fusion; whether cold or hot, makes no difference.Fusion is by definition the combination of 2 (or more) precursor nuclei into one (or more) product nuclei that are a different element. Such as transmutation of hydrogen via the proton-proton interaction into helium in the sun. No transmutation - no fusion because fusion == transmutation. It is like saying that there is a new kind of fission reaction where you don't _actually_ split an atom but you call it fission anyway. Doh.QuoteSigh. Which part do you think made it interesting, actually? Because i didn't spot it. This discussion seems to be full of evasions and oxymorons like the heading itself: LOW energy nuclear reactions. Indeed. By definition nuclear reactions involving the strong interaction (such as fission and yes, fusion) are the _strongest_ interactions known to particle physics. So failure to generate huge amounts of power in these "reactors" does not mean the nuclear interactions themselves would be low energy.Pons & al are either con artists or sad souls with delusions of competence. Their explanations as to what happens in their experiments are senseless and fly in the face of the most solid theories of modern particle physics. For example they advertise that their experiment produces helium from a hydride where hydrogen is present. Sure as fuck it does not; any helium present was smuggled there by the guys and the only reason they claim this to happen is that the description is somewhat similar to what TV science shows say happens inside the sun. That it only happens in the sun at some 4 million Kelvins and above is already lost on everyone, it seems. There is just no way this particular interaction will take place in room temperature, ever. I mean, it is not just a vague idea, explaining the details of the p-p process as well as the CNO cycle, was worth the Nobel price to Hans Bethe. The theory was that complex and the conditions necessary are nothing like what these guys are tinkering with.Ok, sorry about the rant. But hey, don't take my word for it. The one place where i go for the truth is arXiv and it didn't disappoint this time either.http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1306/1306.6364.pdfor go to arXiv front page athttp://arxiv.organd search Physics for "cold fusion"

author: CJWarlock
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2014, 02:17:50 am
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on January 24, 2014, 03:50:11 pmAnd an insightful analysis of the education reform through last 20 years proves otherwise.1. There is consistent shift in public education (in USA mainly - therefore I don't know why you don't follow the relevant data before posting) from stimulating creativity in kids to training them to be consumers (rat race attribute included).2. Reorganisation of system of values follows that shift as a logical consequence. Egocentric needs and means to satisfy them become more important than any honourable values and honest behaviors.3. Honourable behaviours are in fashion only as long as they serve the goal of material selfsatisfaction, or are profitable to particular big corporation, or are beneficial to the modern system of totally invigilated sheeps. Please keep in mind that the conciousness of being watched 24/7 also shifts the behaviours' patterns from these 100% private (as in being one-one-one with self, just chilling and being oneself) to the more publicly-correct ones (frankly: artificial).4. That artificialness is one of the hidden (not noticed at the first sight) factors of so called atomisation of the society. Atomisation means that people are less capable of just talking one to another, and, the key thing, organising, especially into movements. Atomisation is the goal in a pursuit for a obidient, "semi-paralysed" society. Or a sub-goal at least.5. USA was literally bought by umpteen corporationists quite a few decades ago, the things about NSA and similar agencies are coming out, the Information Awareness Office is a fact, and there are anough teachers in USA (and in other countries too - unfortunately) who speak openly and in details about the shift I mention in point 1.And an intersting fact: when the reform of education was taking place in Poland in the mid 90's the important participant in the talks was... a representant of Intenational Monetary Fund. There wouldn't be anything suspicious in that (especially if one believes in honesty of banksters' intentions) unless... that guy strongly suggested that: a) the number of public libraries in Poland has to be reduced to 10% (WTF?); b) absolutely no public higher education (which is costly enough already for students) - all studies, universities, universities of technology had to be only paid; c) the level of the education lowered and narrowed to only the knowledge suitable later for corporate employers. And what's the situation now, almost 20 years later? There is a whole lot of people who graduaded universities, including these of technology, but they only have diplomas and a simple set of commands embedded in their minds, and no creative thinking, no wide horisons - they are dumb and shallow as f..k and personal contact with them is artificial. They are nothing like students from before the education who were mostly McGyvers and Einsteins at the same time in comparison to the present-day-students. Of course there are noble exceptions between the last ones. This however does not change the level and mindset of general population of modern students. It seems like only universities where teachers do not obey new directives and teach the students with a way that sparks creative thinking and passion of active learning towards a particular subject have such exceptions.There is a political bond between USA and Poland of importing the sociotechnical schemes (from USA into Poland) with a variable offset of about 2 years (my priv observation). I followed the thread to the end and studied the case in Poland, in USA and also a bit in England. I did my homework (during last 5 years). Above post proves that enough. And what research you did before stating the old good "all-is-well, keep calm" opinion?QuoteSpeak for yourself and please do not generalise. Generalisation is a bad habbit.1. There are several particular factors during pregnancy that help or disturb brain development in fetus aswell as the general mental and emotional capacities of the child-to-be-born. The list is too long to include here. Interestingly enough, these factors are not only chemical or physical - they are also socioeconomical (among others) techniques that result in predictable mothers' behaviours that in consequence affect brain development in fetus (there are very interesting researches about what particular input can "programme" what particular things in a child who's yet in womb).2. There are several particular factors during child's development that help or disturb intelligence, creativity, and so on (nowadays USA public education tending to have attributes related to factors that disturb (actually they help but in making people obey and do not question authority)).3. There is a general curve of learning capability against age (generally: the younger the kid the more informations he sucks in). Just give the kids stimulating input (in the positive meaning of course). GIGO rule applies here.Just because you not necessarily realise these points it doesn't mean they don't exist.Of course I can understand that simply your field of interest may be placed in something else. In such case I think you'll find my points interesting and... satisfying your natural curiosity of a human being.Of course education system isn't the only thing to point responsible for people's intelligence nowadays. It's one of many. However, it's not a chance that the horisons of knowledge in general population aren't too wide. Please do not troll forum users here by calling the perfectly trackable "conspiracy" a "theory".I put the word "conspiracy" in quotes because it's more a plan (of shifting towards a more obidient and controllable model of society).

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 12:48:35 pm
content: Quote from: CJWarlock on January 29, 2014, 02:17:50 amHear hear!The deliberate decline of education, and the general dumbing down of Western societies, as part of a wider Globalist agenda are topics I track too.Could post links to some resources, but a certain mod here would delete them as 'off topic conspiracy rubbish'. Ironically proving the point, but never mind.Post away.Anyway, here's one of those laughable "Power companies hate this!" web adverts. Just the picture. In this one I think they've taken a picture of the ferrite rod antenna coil from a radio receiver. I'm still looking for the example I wanted to show, because it's so odd. But haven't seen it turn up for a while.

author: Greg Robinson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 01:46:38 pm
content: Such perpetual...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 01:56:58 pm
content: People are still building Perpetual motion machines? The one from the picture looks impressive but we all know it will failI'm a bit embarassed to admit this but my great grandfather build a perpetual motion machine in the 1920's or so. It did run for 3 days...

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:07:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 30, 2014, 01:56:58 pmNice, how did he do it? 3 days is longer than my drinking bird works. I wonder how much energy you could get, if you glue together some 100 of it, mount it to a generator and use rain for the water supply

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:21:48 pm
content: The Drinking Bird toy is a simple heat engine though isnt it? So it's not free energy but uses thermal energy from its surroundings.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:29:57 pm
content: Right, but there is no "free energy" anyway. Maybe would be better to call it "unusual energy" devices.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:33:36 pm
content: QuoteThere's nothing embarrassing about trying. There's nothing embarrassing about failing.There IS something embarrassing about scamming well meaning people, screaming loudly that THE MACHINE WILL WORK, ALL I NEED IS A PINT OF UNOBTAINIUM AND AN EXTRA 4 MIL USD, being a smug ass, feeling "sorry" for skeptics, whilst furiously defending a device based on a 4x4 pixel youtube video evidence.I'm a member of another few forums, on one of which there's a few guys, whom are obsessed by every mention of free energy, will defend against whomever dares doubt it with much vigor. Occasionally a schematic/plan is posted somewhere, and, curiously, they won't build it, they'll just defend it.One of the amusing tales of free energy took place just recently: A guy claimed a fantastic breakthrough, a simple mechanical machine, that made extra energy from nothing! His evidence and reasoning? A simulation in Algodoo. To sway the silly skeptics, he claimed that "since it works in simulation, and simulations are based on math, and math can't be wrong, or simulations used by all sorts of industries would be wrong, his device MUST work in reality". He also challenged anyone to prove him wrong through math. Apparently not the standard laws of physics math, which apparently did not work, but something else... He was so full of himself, it was almost cute.NOTE: Video in slovak:

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 30, 2014, 02:55:56 pm
content: I don't understand what he says, lots of mathematics that's for sure, but LOL, did he use PHUN as a prove for his device? Yeah, there can't be program bugs, and it is a very accurate and professional physics simulation

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 03:05:41 am
content: http://everist.org/archives/links/__Education.txthttp://everist.org/archives/links/__Dumbing_down.txtNot much in that one, it's a peripheral topics on which I see lots of related articles, but couldn't be bothered saving most of them. Also a lot of these fall under different categories, such as Autism, Fluoridation, Vaccination, etc. Those lists are in the same folder.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 03:22:07 am
content: Quote from: daqq on January 30, 2014, 02:33:36 pmWell I've seen slide presentations far more boring than that.There are a few moments of comedy gold! The swinging hammers thing taking off vertically (in simulation) for instance.But the best bit by far is the torus with fans inside. What a terrible shame there's no video of turning it on and watching it do nothing at all.The best results from reading weird science and over-unity forums, is when you come across something really bizarre like the report below. Unrelated to perpetual motion machines, but just... strange. Did it really happen? Who says we know everything in classical physics yet?http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/e-wall.html"Invisible Electrostatic Wall" at 3M adhesive tape plant3M accidentally create a force fieldDavid Swenson of 3M Corporation describes an anomaly where workers encountered a strange "invisible wall" in the area under a fast-moving sheet of electrically charged polypropelene film in a factory. This "invisible wall" was strong enough to prevent humans from passing through. A person near this "wall" was unable to turn, and so had to walk backwards to retreat from it.This occurred in late summer in South Carolina, in extremely high humidity. Polypropelene (PP) film on 50K ft. rolls 20ft wide was being slit and transferred to multiple smaller spools.http://classic-web.archive.org/web/19961226130950/www.att.com/conferences/eosesd/index.html17th Annual Electrical Overstress / Electrostatic Discharge Symposiumhttp://www.esdjournal.com/articles/final/final.htmhttp://www.esdjournal.com/articles/final/final.htmIn August of 1980 in the southeast United States, problems were being experienced at a polypropylene plant. Strange things were happening around a film slitting machine.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 03:40:47 am
content: Around here the government tries to suppress certain techniques of free energy:Conspiracy proved!

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 03:56:42 am
content: Due to some rather unusual circumstances, I may be in the position to "validate" a Bedini Motor generator thing-a-mijig. I've tried to convince this guy that he is wasting his time, but he is fully convinced that it will work. Evidently he has it running now, so I kindly offered to test it for him and prove that he wasted his money.He showed me the design, and all it is is an overly complicated contraption (with spinning magnets, of course) that hits a lead acid battery with short pulses of a few hundred volts. Bedini claims that you can use a single battery to charge a large number of batteries, and that the charged batteries have an increase capacity and become fully charged off the single driving battery. Uh-huh. The increased capacity thing makes sense, due to the desulphation (did I spell that right?) caused by the high voltage pulses. Amplifying the energy? Nope.My acquaintance has his reputation fully covered though, because the energy "created" by the machine uses a "different form" of potential that can't be detected using conventional equipment. How convenient. I have a feeling that, even after showing that the output power is lower than the input power, and that the charged batteries contain less energy than the original driving battery, he will still be fully convinced that he has proven every engineer in the world wrong. Still, I'm looking forward to scientifically ripping this thing apart.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 05:48:31 am
content: Quote from: lewis on January 24, 2014, 02:39:20 pmI think the origin of this lies in the fact that airconds did achieve some substantial leaps in efficiency some years back,& they could get more hot or cold air out with less power in.From that the new systemcouldbe labelled as "equivalent to an older 5.5kW unit",which although it is right,is silly,as no one is selling the old types anymore.Marketing folks (who don't know anything technical about their product) thought,"All that other stuff is confusing--just call it a 5.5 kW unit"Of course,we have similar things in our midst--A TV Transmitter puts 10kW up the spout,which,the customers are toldis 100kW (I know,EIRP,but they don't know what that means)RMS is another made up thing,done for convenience---newbies are amazed when they read 340v peak,& think they have done something wonderful!Then there is the much used,but technically wrong term,"RMS Power".Even worse,are the various types of Amplifier power ratings used by scam artists in the "audiophool" area.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 07:26:16 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 31, 2014, 03:22:07 amI'd kill a box full of kittens for a SPICE program that looked like that. It's like a cross between a simulator, The Simpsons, Super Mario, & Nyan cat ...

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 08:12:30 am
content: QuoteProteus has a nice UI and is quite friendly. Looks good as well, though it lacks said clouds! And you don't have to kill a box full of kittens, unless they changed the EULA considerably. If your looking for clouds and rainbows rather than functionality, you can combine whatever simulator you are running now it with some illegal herbage.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 08:25:04 am
content: Quote from: Ivk6zgoNo, the origin is a slightly disingenuous description.The aircon (edit: I assume that it is, in fact, a heat pump which can be used to cool in summer or warm in winter) in question does notproduce5.5kW of heat from 1.6kW of electricity - itmoves5.5kW of heat from elsewhere using 1.6kW of electricity. Elsewhere can be the atmosphere outside (dry air at 0oC has a specific heat of approx 1kJ per kg peroC) or the ground or water depending on the installation.The physics in this case is sound but it isn't free energy - it's (once again) thermal energy from elsewhere.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 08:26:46 am
content: Quote from: skipjackrc4 on January 31, 2014, 03:56:42 amWell, only if the battery had decreased performance to begin with. You can't desulphate (however it is spelled) a battery that is working as it is supposed to.Quote from: skipjackrc4 on January 31, 2014, 03:56:42 amThat is such well-known tell-tale of of pseudo-science that professional con man know not to use it anymore. So it probably proves that your friend honestly believes this junk.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 04:41:25 pm
content: All this type of stuff is what Richard Feynman called "Cargo cult science" They create their arguments and reasoning's as to what they expect then sit back to await the results and when they are not forthcoming it must be due to not being able to detect it or see it for whatever reason, such as you don't believe therefore you can't see it or don't get it. The great man explained it better but i will have to look it up again in order to quote directly. Personally I have given up trying to convince some people as one can onlyfor so long.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 05:00:58 pm
content: Cargo Cult SciencebyRichard P. Feynman. Worth reading.

author: skipjackrc4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2014, 05:16:32 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on January 31, 2014, 08:26:46 amSince there are supposed to be several car batteries involved (you need to collect as much of the "free energy" as you can, right?), he will be using old ones. Thus, I fully expect there to be a noticeable increase in capacity.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:15:08 am
content: Fresh thread over in the Buy/Sell section:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/vortex-coil-formers-for-sale/I'm sure there's some free-energy comedy potential with this seller, but it will take a little thought to get the best value.If you're wondering what the advert is for, google vortex coils free energy.Even on the first result page you'll find gems like:"Vortex-Based Mathematics (VBM) is different because it is a dynamic math that ...""Making a coil that produces unlimited free energy. A number grid that shows ... The zero is always in the center in the form of the vortex hole. ""The Unification Coil utilizes Vortex Based Mathematics, Sacred Geometry, and ...."I don't suppose the mods would consider NOT locking that thread, while we have some Q & A 4chan-style fun with the seller? (Assuming he'll answer questions.)Edit: Looking through that page of .... stuff, there's this:1Stop Energies: Vortex Coil Lighting InverterWhat's shocking, is that this guy could be 'one of us'. He has a nice electronics workbench, with 8 multimeters stacked on the shelf above. (at 1:23)Damn, a nice workbench AND a pretty girlfriend:Hey, is that the same coil former? Related source?Edit 2: Oops, sorry, make that wife not girlfriend, from reading the 'About' section on their site. Hmm, some more 'vortex based mathematics' references. Heh, and 'natural pathways' too! Not to mention a web page that prevents CTRL-C copy of its text content, always a great sign.I figured they were in the USA, the moment she said 'sodder' for solder.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 08:48:20 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 02, 2014, 07:15:08 amOf course, with vortex coils you can build overunity devices easilyI wonder why he has disabled the Youtube comments, I have some questions, like why doesn't he feed the output to the input to prove it.Looks like he is using this quality multimeter to measure the 864 Hz output:http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200813_PM_EN.pdf: "600 V RMS Maximum at 50/60Hz"

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 09:00:20 am
content: QuoteI wonder......?Or indeed why any of the free energy pushers have never managed to demonstrate one of their devices producing enough energy to run, say, a small house off-grid.I mean, if theyactuallyworked they'd fly off the shelves. Given that a solar installation has an ROI of about 10 years in most cases they could easily justify 10x your annual electricity bill for installing one.I don't buy "I need backing" - surely there are enough of these loons that a few could band together to produce a prototype with no problem.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:10:27 am
content: What is that coil supposed to do, I got the impression from the way it's wound and then connected that one field counteracts the other, ie. its self neutralising, all you have is 50 foot of wire electrically. Did any one else get the same idea from the second film.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:14:02 am
content: Vortex Technologies: POE Coil / How It's MadeAt 5:40 : connect to any wire on the other end.Small improvement on the process: except the same wire. Do not connect a wire to its own end. Otherwise you could end up having a few isolated loops in your coil, which would make it less effective.(Not sure in what it would be less effective, after all she is just connecting a power supply through it to the LED panel. She is not even making a claim extra energy is generated.)

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:22:56 am
content: QuotePOE = Pile of Excrement?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 10:30:49 am
content: Usually with 'vortex coil' rubbish, the prose is so vague & new-age there's no chance of figuring out what they areactuallydoing, never mind what they claim is happening.But with that 'Vortex Technologies: POE Coil / How It's Made' video above, it's tantalizinglyalmostclear enough to work out an equivalent circuit.But then it all falls down at the end, when what she's connecting up doesn't seem to correspond with that not-quite 'circuit diagram' she keeps pointing at.Dammit, am I going to have to make one of these things, to figure it out? I'd rather not.Is anyone clear on what's being done there?What I can get:- The winding is multi-stranded.- The first layer of winding is just wound around a toroidal volume, same as a standard coil around a ferrite toroid, except that the windings are skewed to an angle so they interleave rather than being laid turn by turn next to each other.- The second layer of winding reverses the direction of lay on the toroid. Also because of the skew, the wires lay at about 90 degrees to the wires of the first layer. But flux-wise, it's effectively counter-winding on the toroid. By the same number of turns, and still interleaving.- Then the two multi-stranded winding ends are separated and connected into two groups, forming two separate coils within the same wire bundle.But then it gets too vague. I can't see in what arrangement she connects them to the sig gen, or what the 'output' is from.Also no actual measurements of current, voltage, freq, power in, power out, etc. Unsurprisingly.OK, I admit it, I watched this because it's nice to see a pretty girl winding wire and using a soldering iron.Too bad she's never heard of heatshrink tubing, apparently. Or self-fluxing enameled wire. Or tag-strips.Holy crap! Check out the prices they want for these magical vortex coils prewound. Several hundred dollars each.Now there's an interesting question. If you had an opportunity to rip off a lot of gullible fools, easily, and make lots of money doing so, would you?I was going to say I wouldn't, but then I remembered I used to write software for illegal gaming establishment poker machines back in the 1980s, and that was sooooo rigged. So I did. And I wasn't even getting the profits. Sh*t.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 11:49:38 am
content: Multi-stranded? Thats not what I saw. The winding is single stranded. Maybe two stranded at best.The multi-strand is just a production method. She then goes ahead and connects the strands so they form one continues wire by soldering their ends together. (assuming she does not accidentally solders a strand to itself, but there's only a small chance of that)There are two of these "multi-strand-converted-into-single-wire" things. And while she does wire them in opposite direction, it is not entirely clear how she connects them. Current thus could still flow in one single direction, making it essentially one single loop, creating a stable single magnetic field in the toriod center despite the slanted angles.Or two opposing loops, making the current canceling each other out in classic thinking, but maybe creating weird oscillations and escaping fields through the diamond holes in the windings. If anything weird and 'otherworldly' would happen, I would guess it would be in this configuration.If you really think something may be happening, do build it and let us know. And don't forget to buy your wire and toroid template with them, so you are helping thembecoming richimproving the world.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 12:01:38 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 02, 2014, 07:15:08 amFit bird using a dremel. Phwooooaaaar! I'm all astir.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 12:19:40 pm
content: Quote from: cybermaus on February 02, 2014, 11:49:38 amSorry, I was unclear. I meant it's originally wound as a multi-strand. I know she then wires it up as two multi-turn windings.QuoteSeems her multimeter checking eliminates chances of that.QuoteNot quite, as the entire multi-strand reverses turn direction half way through winding. So even if the two groups are wired in series, it STILL cancels. But why make two groups, if they are then wired in series? So I think they are connected oppositely as well. So it... sort of doubly cancels. Does not make it 'uncancel'.QuoteOnly at very high frequencies, I'd have thought? But from the video it's not even clear if the energization is DC or AC.If it was a simply wound coil, reversing half way through, and also with two bifilar windings (one reversed) it's obviously going to produce zero magnetic field. It's the twist and 90 degrees between winding layers that exceeds my mental-model ability. I suppose the entire scam depends on exactly that, with most people.QuoteNo, Idon'tthink anything odd is going to happen. But I'm the kind of person who'd like to actually check on that, since I'm having trouble visualizing it. It's that trouble that makes it interesting. Would like to have one, put AC through it, and probe the space inside and between the windings with a small pickup loop coil to help visualize what the B field (if any) is actually doing.QuoteI'm having no difficulty visualizing the chances of me giving them any money. Zero.But it's times like this I wish I did have a CNC router, or a 3D printer. To make a bunch of those former disks. Already have rolls of suitable wire.Though, it's a lot of nice enameled wire to waste on a stupid idea.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2014, 07:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on February 02, 2014, 12:19:40 pmThat big reel of wire she is using in the video must cost a bomb. It's quite heavy gauge too.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 12:01:21 am
content: Here's a real classic! It's got everything - a catchy name, a link to 'physicists are baffled' bit of mainstream research, serious looking guys waving hands around over a bit of CGI mumbo-jumbo, funny looking coils, mention of Nikola Tesla, a trendy young guy giving a 'send us money' video, and a basic idea that's easy to say and sound like some kind of expert (even if so vague it's meaningless), and an 'opportunity' to invest in the 'new energy technology'.All torque, torque, torque and no working demo device powering a home. Why does this sound familiar?https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/magrav-technology-cd-version-01/https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/learning-network/videoAs energy scams go, I'd give them 8/10 for polish. But I'm disappointed there's no teasers online for their revolutionary patents. (I hope you can see the invisible single quotes when I write that.) No free teasers makes them lose points under my scam-grading scale.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 02:14:52 pm
content: So he is just selling an overpriced coin, and no facts at all about the invention?I would rather buy a Krügerrand for the next financial crisis.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 03:13:44 pm
content: This one could actually work

author: Chet
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2022, 07:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 23, 2014, 11:10:13 pmI am not an idiot...