Was:Siglent new... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 08:14:07 am
content: was...

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 08:16:23 am
content: Reserved...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 08:26:57 am
content: €359 wow !And in the US for $399https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-u/

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 08:37:49 am
content: was...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 09:04:07 am
content: So they decided to create direct competition to DS1054Z from Rigol, even in price...

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 10:10:01 am
content: was...

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 10:21:39 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 26, 2020, 08:26:57 amThey are $638.00 downhere.I also found a quick teaser video.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 10:43:35 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on November 26, 2020, 10:10:01 amAt that price point, well, price isthepoint...I didn't say it was same performance. Apart from a bit less memory (DS1054Z has 24Mp) everything else should be better. Even 128kpoint for FFT, while downgrade for Siglent 1000X-E is WAAY better that what Rigol has. Or twice as much as 18000 USD retail Keysight DSOX3000T has with 64 kpoints..... OK 3000T has superb controls for FFT, but resolution bandwidth is not great...This does call for competitive comparison with the Z machine, but in real world scenarios, not datasheet comparison....

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 12:31:00 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on November 26, 2020, 10:10:01 amthe problem is they get into the race way too late when Rigol already partying at the finish line in America since E series. probably soon we'll see Riglol portable battery powered add-on upgrade into the market. btw, attached is FFT out of my 1054Z... i'm not going to buy one budget Siglent to find out how its done with it. at that price, we all did buy "budget" Rigol scope already.Quote from: rf-loop on November 26, 2020, 08:14:07 amdoes that mean what you wrote here is not what you believe? so its not true, right?(or maybe i begin to question my understanding skill in English language)

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 12:55:41 pm
content: My biggest question: What does the U (in the designation) mean?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 01:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 26, 2020, 12:31:00 pmDo you really believe all the scopes in the world are already sold and no new scopes will be sold ever again?Rigol portable battery for DS1054Z ? So you, like, hold desktop scope in one hand in the air, carry backpack for the battery ( or you hang battery around the neck), and measure with one remaining hand ?Combined price of DS1054Z and battery buys you Micsig tablet scope if you need thing portable without Rube Goldberg contraptions, unless Rigol is a religion and not a scope.Also what kind of battery pack? One that plugs in into mains socket on a scope? That one can be used with any device too.... Or did I miss DC 12V power input on Rigol?Also what is the purpose of picture of FFT that you calculated on computer from some capture downloaded on the scope. That is NOT FFT from your Rigol, that is straight out lie, and a deliberate one.Any scope has that, if you have PC connected and crunch numbers on a PC. It is cumbersome and takes effort, PC must be connected, software must be provided and used to make that....That is why people fuss about FFT directly in scope. It's quick and convenient. You just press few buttons and twiddle knob or two...And you know damn well that Rf-loop english is a bit rough at the times. Why the smart ass comments? Just politely point at the fact that he wrote something that sounds incomprehensible or wrong... Ask for clarification.. He knows his English is not perfect... Nor is mine or that many users here... Native English speaking users might even be in minority here on forum..That HAS to be taken into account in ANY discussion here. Thatcannotandmust notbe point of contention in ANY discussion here...Sincerely,Siniša

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 01:05:08 pm
content: was...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 01:05:31 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on November 26, 2020, 12:55:41 pm(U)ltra low features ?(U)ndercut pricing ?

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 01:26:54 pm
content: was...

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 02:26:46 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on November 26, 2020, 01:26:54 pmI would never get there.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 03:22:39 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on November 26, 2020, 02:26:46 pmWhy? We consider you a disassembler Zen master ...

author: GTheis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 04:32:45 pm
content: As a starter in having my own lab and seeing this EU price it makes me want to get this (I was going for the more expensive SDS1104X-E because I want to play with RF and FFT might be important in this case).From the datasheet, while I understood some, I didn't fully comprehend. In theory, they beat the Rigol quite a bit, no? Anyone to drawn very comprehensive comparisons for us newbies?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 04:51:28 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 03:22:39 pmI've tried mandarim for a year but... it would require reverse engineering in fulltime!!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 04:57:45 pm
content: Quote from: GTheis on November 26, 2020, 04:32:45 pmNah. They're really only one step up the ladder from the Rigol. The difference between them is about the same as the difference in price. What is it these days, about 30-40%? Seems about right.Quote from: GTheis on November 26, 2020, 04:32:45 pmThe Siglent FFT isn't anything marvelous. It has more data points but it's slow/painful to use.(and this new one doesn't even have many more data points)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:17:30 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on November 26, 2020, 04:51:28 pmNo need to speak.. Just be quiet, look wise, and pretend you're meditating..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:35:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 26, 2020, 04:57:45 pmIt is not quite true.. SDS1000X-e has 2 A/D converters that make sure there is no aliasing. It has color grading mode that is quite useful. Decoding is much better (has CAN and LIN too), table view for decoding is much more nicely laid out. It has very useful segmented and always running history mode (Rigol has record mode but you cannot do much with it), measurements are more precise, running from full buffer instead of on screen data.... FFT is 1 MPoints. Input sensitivity goes down to 500uV division, for real. So many, many improvements.This cheaper U model has same price as DS1054Z, and only one A/D converter and half the memory of X-E, 1mV/div real vertical sensitivity, and "only" 128kpoint FFT, that is twice what 25000 USD DSOX4000 has, and 8 times 16k on Ds1054Z. Most of other capabilities are same as 1000X-E series.I see this U Siglent scope as clearly better in capabilities than DS1054Z for the same price.Wecouldargue if it is better than small GW Instek GDS 1000B series, though....I look at it in a positive way. Maybe this will be small kick in the but for Rigol to put some effort to refresh low end offering... Competition is good.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 05:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 05:35:46 pmAnd many, many more $$$.If we're allowed to just keep increasing the price and claim "This one's even better!" then it's turtles all the way up.PS: Most of those a nitpicky, on-paper things that won't have much effect in real life.Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 05:35:46 pmThe Instek could cost a lot more, depending on where you live. If you're in the USA then it's under $300 and a total no-brainer.In Europe? More like $500.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 06:18:07 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 26, 2020, 05:50:50 pmI'm not sure if you're confusing X-E and X-U, the new one.1000X-E is 50% more expensive than DS1000Z in EU, but is much better, for reasons mentioned.1000X-U is new one that is 350€ andis in price range of DS1000Z. It has single A/D converter, same as DS1000Z, "only" 128 kpoints FFT (still massively bigger than 1000Z), and pretty much all other benefits of Siglent 1000X-E platform.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 06:33:39 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 01:04:05 pmurhhmm, i'm imagining... no, no and no ... no, yes and no..Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 01:04:05 pmcan we have 10Mpts FFT out of Siglent DSO? lie or not lie?Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 01:04:05 pmrf-loop is my friend, or my guru, so i know him (virtually). although he may not treat me like one. except that line is unbelievably understandable and NOT wrong, its always fascinating reading his posts making me feel like at home

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 06:41:07 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 06:18:07 pmThe clue would be where I say "more $$$".Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 06:18:07 pma) DS1000Z has 64kpoints FFT. Twice as many won't make much difference.b) It actually costs about 50 Euros more than the Rigol.But yeah, Rigol needs to respond.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 06:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 26, 2020, 06:33:39 pmBy same rules, yes, you can have 14 Mpoints of data from Siglent into Labview and have all of these and then some:https://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/371361J-01/TOC166.htmhttps://zone.ni.com/reference/en-XX/help/371361J-01/TOC162.htm...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 07:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 05:35:46 pmDon't think so. Look at FFT and memory depth for starters. With the U series Siglent is doing exactly the same as other brands: come up with a cheaper but crippled device in order not to eat into their more expensive models.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2020, 07:58:06 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 26, 2020, 08:26:57 amnb. That's without sales tax, which runs to about 20% in most of Europe.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 02:39:32 am
content: was...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 08:15:31 am
content: Quote from: rf-loop on November 27, 2020, 02:39:32 amie. Reduced right up until the first stocks of this thing arrive.Quote from: rf-loop on November 27, 2020, 02:39:32 amThat's what I predict, too.(except that VAT will go back up at the end of the year so it will be 374 Euros vs. 427 Euros)https://suw-steuerberatung.de/en/2020/06/07/temporary-reduction-of-german-vat-in-2020-and-its-implications-on-businesses-time-to-act-quickly/I just bought my Micsig from Batronix so I got the good price.

author: GTheis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 09:41:45 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 27, 2020, 08:15:31 amOh I just learnt that I've to buy stuff from Germany lol

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2020, 09:46:21 am
content: Quote from: GTheis on November 27, 2020, 09:41:45 amActually in the EU just take you pick of supplier:https://www.siglenteu.com/how-to-buy/

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 03:43:56 am
content: was...

author: evava
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 09:10:07 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 27, 2020, 08:15:31 amCould we know which Micsig did you choose for yourself?

author: Lowkus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 09:50:55 am
content: Is there a North American store that sells the SDS1104X-U, and if so are there any coupon codes available for it?Originally I was planning to buy an SDS2104X+ but I am just getting started in electronics so the SDS1104X-U might be the more prudent first scope.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:02:23 am
content: Quote from: evava on November 28, 2020, 09:10:07 amI got Micsig STO1104C Plus. Also from Batronix.. But for me VAT is no problem, company purchase..

author: uski
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:23:47 am
content: That new SDS1104X-U scope is awesome for schools and beginnersAnd even more advanced users for basic use.Got my first scope when I was around 15 years told. It was a used TDS220. I wish it was something like this instead !Beginners are lucky these daysThis SDS1104X-U doesn't have MSO but 4 channels and serial decode, definitely enough to play with UARTs, SPI and I2C. USB port for screenshots, perfect for school project reports.I totally see this in school benches all over the world !

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:39:28 am
content: Quote from: evava on November 28, 2020, 09:10:07 amI got the STO1104C - 100Mhz, 4 channels, knobs on the side.I also got it from Batronix, they had a special offer for that model which meant it didn't cost much more for the knobs.(The knobs aren't necessary BTW, I can see now that the 'scope will workperfectlywithout them)I got the bag as well. The bag is very cool to have.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:43:02 am
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 10:23:47 amI think the Micsig would be afarbetter choice, and only 100 Euros more.The screen is much bigger/better and the whole thing is much more modern to use.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 10:58:51 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 28, 2020, 10:43:02 amWell, I don't agree with you (which is OK).I said it before, MicSig doesn't have basic statistics on measurements. That is a HUGE problem if it is a primary scope.I have other scopes, so not a problem. But statistics is very important.That is my biggest complaint on Micsig STO1104C.It serves me well as a portable carry around scope, and for just looking at the signals, but there are few things that need to be added before it would be great entry level primary scope.Statistics is most important of them.

author: uski
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:19:56 am
content: That Micsig is interesting but has a smell of the horrible FNIRSI 1013D. Seems to be mostly sold on Banggood, Amazon and eBay... not a good sign.If they want to penetrate the "western" market they should really work with some established distributors (looks like they are with Saelig, it's a good start)There are three reasons I say this :- These distributors are established and care about their reputation and will not sell crap (at least they try not to). So as customers, it is a guarantee of a certain minimum quality level.- Good luck trying to get warranty/repair from something you bought on Banggood or even Amazon. After the return window, Amazon will simply tell you "go talk to the manufacturer".- I doubt school are going to buy from BanggoodAnd we all know the added value of some distributors (Tautech ?)Also, I think the major appeal of the SDS1104X-U is its price. I think it's a "race the prices to the bottom" scope, for people who don't need high end specs.Think like audio stuff, learning how to use a scope, and some basic digital signal debugging (I2C, UART, ...). My first contact with a scope was in high school, we don't need 5Gsps there.The Micsig seems to be $500, the Siglent $400. This 25% more matters when you are a student, or when you have to buy 20 to fill a lab.I remember when $100 was a reasonably big deal to me... but I was already doing electronics and using my TDS200. I would have happily kept the $100 more + VAT and used it for something else.If I had to choose now, I'd totally go to the SDS1104X-U without any second look for the reasons above (assuming I was in the target market obviously)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:24:09 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:51 amI though about this before I bought mine and figured that I'd never used statistics on my Rigol. Your mileage obviously varies.In a school environment I'd say it's much more important to have everything very visible and easy to find, which the Micsig excels at.Quote from: 2N3055 on November 28, 2020, 10:58:51 amNote that Rigol does statistics much better than Siglents - even the DS1054Z can plot a graph of values over time. :-)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:25:34 am
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 11:19:56 amDon't be ridiculous. The only similarity is the shape.If you ever get to use a well designed touch-screen 'scope you'll be going back home to sell your Siglent.Edit: As a cheap introductory oscilloscope for kids you could do a lot worse than a FNIRSI.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:27:31 am
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 11:19:56 amBy that reasoning you should be buying the Rigol DS1054Z.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:47:12 am
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 11:19:56 amYou can buy MicSig scopes from various distributors but MicSig also sells directly to end users through Ebay and Aliexpress. I bought my TO1104 directly from MicSig.QuoteTry to get Siglent North America to fix your scope if they forgot to install some capacitors. They simply won't and your praised distributors won't answer your calls either. The bigger problem you are describing is the lack of consumer protection in the USA. That is not a fault of a manufacturer but the choice of the people not to pay extra for service.

author: uski
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:52:56 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 28, 2020, 11:47:12 amCan't speak about Siglent NA service, but this really has nothing to do with consumer protection laws.In the US you can do a credit card chargeback relatively easily, which to my knowledge is much harder to do in Europe (it was harder to do when I lived there a few years ago, maybe it changed)Buying from Banggood offers the same level of after sales service worldwide : NONEAnd for Amazon, their return policy is the equivalent of the 15-days universal return window in EuropeAnyway, I am personally really not comfortable with brands whose main distribution channel seems to be direct to consumer through Banggood and similar sites. I had my fair share of receiving crap and being offered "a discount".I can deal with it when buying $1.5 ESP8266 modules, but not a $500 scope, that's above my risk tolerance.But this is just me and my humble opinion. Happy for you if you are happy to buy a $500 scope from AliExpress/Banggood/eBay, I just can't do it.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 11:56:21 am
content: was...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 11:52:56 amI got mine from Batronix.(They're much cheaper than anywhere else for this 'scope)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:03:04 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on November 28, 2020, 11:56:21 amYet here we are discussing Micsigs and FNIRSIs.PS: I'm just pointing out flaws in his logic. I think I see on in yours, too - you're not jumping all over people for mentioning Micsigs in a precious Siglent thread.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 12:18:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 28, 2020, 12:03:04 pmno! the topic now is "Was:Siglent new..." sigh. what happened friend (rf-loop)? tell me if Fungus hurt you.

author: christerb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 03:41:04 pm
content: QuoteSomeone must have reported at least one of his posts, and rightly so. Although difficult to interpret it was more about "politics" than oscilloscopes. Obviously rf-loop reacted by removing all his comments and most of the subject, which originally was "Siglent new SDS1104X-U, 4 channel 100MHz, 1Gsa/s economy oscilloscope".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 03:50:47 pm
content: Quote from: christerb on November 28, 2020, 03:41:04 pmWhich is an extremely childish move on his part. If rf-loop wants his very own thread then he should buy advertising space / web hosting somewhere and point to there. Most of these kind of threads naturally evolve into comparing pros and cons between similar offerings which is a good thing for the prospective buyers.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 04:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: uski on November 28, 2020, 11:52:56 ama) It's unlikely that you'll be sent a cheap knock-off of a Micsig.b) You can easily buy from the Micsig official store, follow the link from micsig.comc) You don't have to accept a seller's offer. All those sites will give you afullrefund if you ask for it.In short, it's your own fault if you get stiffed on those sites.

author: Lowkus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 06:40:23 pm
content: Is there any hack to improve the SDS1104X-U? How does it compare to a hacked DS1054Z?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 07:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: Lowkus on November 28, 2020, 06:40:23 pmNobody's actually got one yet, so...

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 07:13:45 pm
content: I put this here... i thought the product was a mis launch at first since this thread got hosed by the op.. no idea what happened here but annoying enough to make a new thread to look at laterhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 07:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: Elasia on November 28, 2020, 07:13:45 pmRight... everybody will now go over there to make that one confusing, too.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 09:00:52 pm
content: Quote from: Lowkus on November 28, 2020, 06:40:23 pmNone known yet as there are zero options to hack and already performance will be better than Z that apparently won't show data points properly in Dot mode....but it has been this way for many years.Fungus will say don't use Dot mode however all waveform reconstruction relies on properly sampled data points.Quote from: Fungus on November 28, 2020, 07:28:24 pmFungus is busy playing whackamole as there's now a real $ contender to his beloved Z.Should I be feeding the troll, probably not.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2020, 09:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 28, 2020, 09:00:52 pmLOL Dont knock the Z... rigols has that thing for years now and sitting on their throne at the cheap end.. they've had that one so long i'd think a new one would roll out not to far off to top it at a lower point now that gw is floating down and siglent has rounded their portfolio out with this one

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 07:07:35 am
content: @rf-loopShame this thread was trolled.Hopefully the troll leaves the building and you can repair some time soon.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 08:45:01 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on November 26, 2020, 01:05:31 pmRight now it means Unicorn - nobody's ever seen one.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 08:45:53 am
content: Quote from: tautech on November 29, 2020, 07:07:35 am...says somebody who's actively trolling right now.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 10:10:38 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 29, 2020, 08:45:53 amHe's back !

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2020, 12:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 29, 2020, 10:10:38 amPlease go and stay with rf-loop in kindergarten. You and him both are in the perfect place there. Leave it to the real engineers to have a debate about test equipment. We don't need sales trolls who don't add anything useful to the discussion for that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 09:24:53 am
content: Quote from: Lowkus on November 28, 2020, 09:50:55 amSaelig although they aren't listing it yet although Siglent in Ohio list it as available.http://www.saelig.com/category/siglent-benchtop-oscilloscopes.htm?Screen=CTGY&Category_code=oscilloscopes-siglenthttps://siglentna.com/product/sds1104x-u/If you ask for the discount code in the Saelig discount thread someone will flick it to you in a PM.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/equipment-discounts-from-saelig/