Side-track conversation on education and (PISA) test - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 05:20:46 pm
content: Quote from: sacherjj on May 08, 2014, 12:15:55 pmI started this new thread because this side conversation about education is distracting us from the discussion of Agilent's response in that thread. And us here in this forum are all techies, so education perhaps interest us all here.First:Shanghai, Macau, and Hong Kong are the only three locales because those are the only three places where PISA test were conducted. To the best I can discern (reading OECD stuff), it was their judgment that better to have some part of China then none - , so: (now my editorial) they probably just went where it is easy to get to. Granted, greater Shanghai area is larger than most US states (population 20-30million) it is time to expand further – Wu Han region, Bejing, Nanking, entire Pearl River Delta…Second:If we do compare places like New York City, we would do even worst. Just this week, our new “improved” system’s results were released. Of the high school graduates, ¼ is math proficient, 1/3 is writing proficient (proficient as in adequate for college entrance). Different States and locales want to move off “Common Core”. Indiana did and New York is/was discussing it. Indiana puled out because Common Core is inadequate, New York want to pull out because Common Core is too hard and the majority is failing.Third:I understand the inland China is about as under developed as our own Appalachian Valley or Cajun Lousianna Swamp land. Complaining about such regional advantage is like complaining about nation X won more Gold because they only send their best to the Olympics and that is unfair. If we continue the attitude of touchy feelie stuff instead of hard core merit based education, we are in trouble. As long as nation X takes education more serious than we do, we will continue our own decline. Instead, we should ensure our worst beat their best; or as close to that as we can.Looser with an excuse is just that – a looser with an excuse but still a looser. Until we face the unpleasant facts that we are falling behind, we won’t improve. Like any other mistake, we have to first realize we made a mistake before we can do correction.Rick

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 05:34:09 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 08, 2014, 12:40:41 pmDanny, replying to you in this new thread (and I will post a please read in another thread shortly).First, Asians are equalizing themselves the other way too... Some are as touchie-feelie as anyone else too quick on instant gratification than studying for the future.Second, do you know about "parent operated volunteer schools"? For 6 to 7 years, I volunteered in one - giving up every Saturday during school year. (We rented space from a local high school) I understand that those "main-lander's" operated Chinese school are far more aggressive that other (see next paragraph).I was at a high school listening to a school consular talking to parents on when to starting thinking about SAT....His and her (two speakers) were: you take the PSAT grade 11, and SAT grade 12, before that, you don't need to worry. Kids at one of those "more aggressive" schools started their SAT prep since 6th grade.Read about "Tiger Mom", that will give you some ideas. Attend a "math count" contest, it is like going to China Town...

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2014, 05:49:45 pm
content: I don't think the Pisa test is very accurate, here in the uk we have a very high ethnick diversity and a big mix of ability of students, we are unique you can't compare us to other countries. In china and Japan they bring there pupils up like robots, were not like that in the uk and we shouldn't be like that. One thing that we are missing is Japan (or china I'm not sure) has the highest rate of suicide of young people in the world due to there education system. No we don't want to be like that do we?

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 02:36:37 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on May 08, 2014, 05:34:09 pmYea, tell me about it. I'm Chinese myself, but going to ANY math/science competition, it's like Bangalore meets Beijing. I was at the Texas Science/Engineering fair a few months back, and I remember roughly 3/4 are of Asian descent.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 12:28:58 pm
content: QuoteABC news had a segment last night about MathCounts - and it looks like what you described.Our issues run much deeper than our education system, unfortunately.Here is the tip of the iceberg:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/opinion/sunday/bruni-america-the-shrunken.html?_r=0I am as far from a nytimes reader as you can find but that article is spot on. And it only touched on the surface of the issues we face.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 06:17:47 pm
content: There's lie's damn lies and statistics.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2014, 09:57:14 pm
content: Apparently, Piketty's book is selling now like hot cakes.It is interesting that socialism / communism are tried and abandoned in countries like China and Russia. Yet, in the land of capitalism, it has so much appeal.History goes in circles,

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2014, 12:35:27 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 09, 2014, 09:57:14 pmWell... I hate to say it, but I think you are right. Our education system failed us. We no longer learn history so we are repeating the mistake history has already so clearly shown us the fruitlessness of that approach.