Siglent SDS1000X HD versus SDS2000X HD - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: dexar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 12:48:38 pm
content: Does anybody know how responsive the UI is in the two scope families?I am guessing that the SDS2000X HD is powered by a more powerful CPU butcan you feel the difference compared to the SDS1000X HD when operating it?

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2024, 06:42:30 pm
content: The best answer can be done by the one that own both models, but excepting those that get a old test v.1 of the 1000X-HD I don't think that someone will buy both models for the future.This models does not have a CPU in terms of clasic arhitecture, but if you are refering to the application processor, 1000X-HD has a more recent and advanced one - Zynq 7000 UltraScale+ MPSoC, while 2000X-HD has an older version of Zinq - Zynq 7000 SoC.But ... while 1000X-HD is doing the signal processing with the FPGA logic included in the same Zinq MPSOC, 2000X-HD has 2 other more powerfull FPGA's available: Spartan 7 and Artix 7 to do the processing nedeed for 2x2 Gsa/s and 4x12 bit channels at 500 MHz BW.So the difference in power procesing of the signal became obvious.During use SDS100-X-HD is not slow at all, except when you have more math function simultaneously for ex. FFT or nested functions.So in terms of usability 1000X-HD does not show slowness as an obvious issue, only if you look for it you can find situations when it can be revealed. But I didn't find scopes that can't be kneel if you really want.P.S. If you look for a model with a clasic CPU from Siglent they have SDS7000A wich feature an x86 architecture.

author: dexar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 07:45:24 am
content: Thanks for the info. Now I understand why ERES is done in hw only in the SDS2000X HD.You wrote 500MHz BW. The highest BW model of the SDS2000X HD is 350MHz according to the siglent homepage.Do you mean that it is SW limited to 350Mhz or was it a typo?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 08:19:51 am
content: Quote from: dexar on March 24, 2024, 07:45:24 amCorrect. SDS2354X HD.However a BW upgrade to 500 MHz is available as an option....unpriced on the EU website.https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/350-mhz-to-500-mhz-bandwidth-upgrade/This only supports 500 MHz with 2 active channels and just one on each ADC otherwise a 350 MHz BW limit is automatically applied.

author: dexar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 08:33:17 am
content: Tautech, do you think Siglent will continue with updates for the SDS2000X HD. It sounds like it about to be discontinued?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 09:02:10 am
content: Quote from: dexar on March 24, 2024, 08:33:17 am100%, it is a very capable and popular model which fits well between the 8bit SDS2000X Plus and the new 12bit SDS3000X HD.SDS2000X HD has some more and better features than SDS2000X Plus yet they are both 500 MHz designs.In the future it may be changed to the dark scheme of the other 12bit models but this is just a guess on my part.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 09:35:27 am
content: TBH for several reasons and if your budget permits, get a SDS2000X HD.500 MHz capable platform.SPL2016 LA probe superior to that offered with SDS1000X HD.Considerably greater memory depth plus superior memory management tools.User configurable trace colors.Whisper quiet fan.SDS2XHD-BND option bundle promotion until mid year.https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

author: joeB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 12:45:50 pm
content: The SDS2000X HD also includes the 500 MHz passive probes.

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 04:41:54 pm
content: Batronix now has the SDS2000X_HD in stock at the lower price (Siglent recomended) - 2,237 E.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 04:55:06 pm
content: Indeed ! (2 day ago it wasn´t showed)https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS2104X-hd.htmlTogether with the bundle this would be maxmium insane price/performance ratio, even without the bundle.(Greetings from one who paid 3500 for the scope alone...)

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 05:01:06 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 24, 2024, 04:55:06 pmI paid €2831 in december 2022. Doesn't matter, I rather that these things depreciate in value than stagnation with no new released devices.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2024, 05:02:24 pm
content: It is a very good deal indeed. I had to talk myself out of buying it, as that would mean selling my two best DMMs and maybe some other stuff. As good as a deal it is, we are still talking about + €2K, which is a complete lab in itself.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 10:17:41 am
content: Hello,I have become weak.Best regardsegonotto

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 10:22:09 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2024, 10:17:41 amYou have my sympathy.I, however, wouldn't have my wife's sympathy if I were to be in your place.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 11:22:11 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2024, 10:17:41 amNo, you're strong and free to choose wisely!100MHz?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 11:33:52 am
content: Hello,yes it has 100 MHz bandwith and ENOB 8.7 bit (typical).Best regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 11:34:56 am
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2024, 10:17:41 amExcellent, will you have both 2000 and 3000X HD?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 11:38:25 am
content: Hello,yes, and I hope that the SDS2104X HD will arrive this week.Best regardsegonotto

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 12:12:25 pm
content: Hello,what surprises me is:SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HDMask test speed Up to 80,000 frames/sSDS2000X HDMask test speed Up to 14,000 frames/sSDS3000X HDMask test speed Up to 28,000 frames/sBest regardsegonotto

author: skander36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2024, 01:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2024, 11:38:25 amYou da man! ...

author: Frex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 10:51:09 am
content: Hello all,I'm also interested to upgrade my bench with the SDS2000X-HD,but I have some questions about it.First, is there a way to unlock it as for the non HD version ? (bandwidth and options).It seem that there is a hack, but not publicly revealed.Second, there is also complain about very slow update rate in LA mode comparedto non HD model,. Do this point has been fixed ?(There is a youtube video about this issue here :)Thank you in advance for your opinions.RegardsFrex

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 04:17:40 pm
content: I was about to pull the trigger when the 2104X HD was available at Batterfly the other week but when I got around to it it was gone. Oh, just as well I thought...it's not like I've worn out the 2kX+But now, when it showed up at Batronix at the new pricepoint I could no longer resist.SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND bundle coming shortly.If anyone else is ordering from Batronix don't forget to use that "Request quote" button.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 06:45:14 pm
content: Hello,the SDS2104X HD is no longer available from Batronix.Best regardsegonotto

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 07:02:24 pm
content: Hello,it is now exciting to see whether it will arrive this week. I have not yet received any information that the SDS2104X HD has been in transit.Best regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 08:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 26, 2024, 06:54:06 pmThis indeed suggests that the 100Mhz are being sold off.Does that make sense....I don't understand the strategy behind it, but I don't have to.Someone should let Welectron know that the prices have dropped for the 2104X HD - they still have some in stock, but at the old price.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 09:07:49 pm
content: Interesting indeed. It vanishing completely from the Batterfly website was what I noticed the other day when I almost let go of the idea. Then it showed up at Batronix long enough for me to place the order and then dissappears again.Have an order confirmation but it has not been shipped yet so I guess we'll have to see.Siglent.eu still lists it but at €2682 and I assume that's +VAT since they list the bundle at 235 (which is the price +VAT at other places).Siglenteu.com lists it at €1880.Swedish retailer Elektrokit.com claims to have one i stock but at an even higher price than Siglent.eu (around €2800 (+VAT) at todays exchange rate).

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 09:15:56 pm
content: Hello,I think it will work. It was still there on the night of 25.3.2024 to 26.3.2024.Best regardsegonotto

author: fredo_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 09:30:43 pm
content: It disappeared from Eleshop.eu too !https://eleshop.eu/catalogsearch/result/?q=SDS2104X+HDI received an email this morning from Jeulin.fr (where I ordered mine) saying it should be delivered by the end of next week... finger crossed !

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 10:01:59 pm
content: Why not, this is a very good scope that doesn't even have to hide behind the HDO6034A (in most areas, not all) and I congratulate anyone who was able to get hold of it at the last price.But I would have rather expected the "ancient scope" SDS5000X to be taken off the market.You can make mistakes like that.

author: dexar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2024, 11:17:01 pm
content: According to one distributor that I talked to Siglent has discontinued the 100MHz model. The ones that are at sale is the current stock.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 09:41:25 am
content: Yepp, the 100 Mhz model has been discontinued.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 07:38:53 pm
content: Yes, I asked Batronix and they confirmed that the 2104HD is being discontinued.With both the 800 and 1000 series having a 100MHz model I guess they felt there was too much overlap. But then, there's a 200MHz in the 800, 1000 and 2000 series so I don't know. Their decision of course.Anyway, they also confirmed that mine shipped this morning.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 09:00:25 pm
content: Hello,I ordered on Monday but nothing had been dispatched by Wednesday eveningBest regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 09:24:38 pm
content: Where, by batronix ?Have you received any kind of confirmation at all?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 09:50:59 pm
content: Hello,yes, I received an order confirmation and a pro forma invoice and transferred the requested amount immediately.Best regardsegonotto

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 09:59:30 pm
content: Already paid, aha...Then they'd get in touch if it had already been sold out.Otherwise, I would contact batronix again tomorrow if I were you.I would write, I ordered the scope and paid for it straight away and now I can no longer see it on your site - can I still get it?Or something similar.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 10:10:52 pm
content: Hello,I have written an e-mail to Batronix. I won't receive an answer until tomorrow.In my opinion, I have a purchase contract with Batronix. I therefore assume that Batronix has reserved a device for me.Best regardsegonottoPS: It would just have been nice if I had received it by Easter Saturday

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 10:26:51 pm
content: QuoteI can understand that very well, nothing is better than getting new toys at the weekend.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 10:35:44 pm
content: Hello,maybe I will get the SDS2104X HD and the SDS3034X HD at the same time.Best regardsegonotto

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 10:51:00 pm
content: Quote from: Frex on March 26, 2024, 10:51:09 amJust giving Frex's post a bump in case anyone can comment on the youtube video showing the performance of the X Plus vs the X HD for digital signals. Is that because processing the 8 bit signals is easier than processing 12 bit signals or maybe the test wasn't done properly or something else? Thx

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 27, 2024, 10:51:00 pmPay close attention to the fact that the devices are not setup the same. It's mentioned in the comments on the video too. There's also a link to the thread where it's discussed further here...and the video is 2 years old, so it's not even relevant firmware anymore.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:12:14 pm
content: Quote from: egonotto on March 25, 2024, 12:12:25 pmWhat accounts for the 800 and 1000 performance vs 2000 and 3000? Thx

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 27, 2024, 11:06:40 pmKungFuJosh, thank you.from the comments:"@voitano731 year agoPlus is set to 1kpts timebase , HD model is 4Mpts"this^ is what caused the X Plus to perform better than the X HD?So bottom line, if the testing was set up properly and the newest firmware was installed the X HD would perform as well or better than the X Plus on the digital channels? Or there is still some advantage for the X Plus?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:22:29 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 27, 2024, 11:06:40 pmDiscussion started here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4514990/#msg4514990And following.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:26:57 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 27, 2024, 11:19:25 pmThat's my assumption as well. However, testing is better than assuming. I would take a look at the conversation Martin linked.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:36:21 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 27, 2024, 11:22:29 pmMartin72 and others, thanks for referencing the thread but I don't see anything that definitely explains the performance difference. I saw other people saying they had similar results to what was in the video and I saw the suggestion that there were setup differences and I saw that there might or might not have been a bug report to Siglent and I saw that there was new firmware - but I didn't see where (in the thread or anywhere else) the performance difference was ever refuted or definitively explained. Sorry if I missed it. Was there a clear resolution? If so, maybe someone can please cite it? Thx

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2024, 11:54:47 pm
content: QuoteThe link was also only meant to show that there was a discussion about it, including confirmations that the person who first noticed it did nothing wrong, because others could also reproduce it.That's all there is to it, it came to nothing.I bought a set of original logic probes much, much later and didn't notice anything detrimental during my tests.Perhaps the update rate hardly plays a role in this case.Or it was fixed in the last firmware update.If there are any concerns, I would mention this again in the bug thread, it will get lost here.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 12:48:36 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 27, 2024, 11:54:47 pmMartin, thanks. I posted here in part because I was thinking I might "need"a 1000X HD or a 2000X HD rather than a 800X HD. So just to clarify, I'm not trying to report a bug - just trying to understand a few performance differences (and discrepancies?) mostly between the 1000X HD and 2000X HD but also among some of the other down stream, up stream, and adjacent models.To be candid, I might have developed a variant of TEA called "New Siglentitis" - which I think I contracted from trying to read all the HD posts and discussions around here - and now I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a 2000X HD. But when I see reports that somehow the 800 and the 1000 outperform the 2000 and 3000 on the mask measurements, and maybe the 2000X Plus outperforms the 2000X HD on the digital channels I start to wonder if I'm too far out over my skis?Maybe I don't understand enough about the FPGA or other architectural aspects of the Siglent product family to make an intelligent decision.For example, just above in this thread we have these specs:SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HDMask test speed Up to 80,000 frames/sSDS2000X HDMask test speed Up to 14,000 frames/sSDS3000X HDMask test speed Up to 28,000 frames/sI don't really absolutely "need" all of the features or any particular specs mentioned but I'd like to at least make a good decision among the available models.fwiw I have a 2000X HD sitting in a shopping cart but these last two outlier cases (mask speed and digital channel performance) are causing some cognitive dissonance.Maybe I just need to slow down and better understand the X HD line up from the 800 thru the 2000 series. After a few weeks of reading/studying I thought the safe/preferred choice was the 2000X HD and I was ready to hit the go button but between the X HD mask specs and now the X Plus vs X HD digital channel video I am having "almost buyer's" remorse.That's my story and I'm sticking to it - but I'm open to therapy.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 01:22:06 am
content: Hello,I have the mask test speed data from the data sheets. I don't know whether this data is correct. I have found errors in data sheets from time to time. I also don't know whether the mask tests are equally powerful in different devices.Best regardsegonotto

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 01:33:01 am
content: EF, nice post and it does seem unusual the Mask test rate is so low in the datasheet (just checked) compared with other models.However there is probably a partial workaround for the more simple waveforms in that SDS2000X HD provides for 2 user definable Zone triggers where when strategically placed and a Not Intersect property selected, using this instead of Mask could maintain a higher framerate.Not tested and none in stock but others might contribute/clarify.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 02:14:00 am
content: I don't believe the 80,000 on the mask test. It's probably a typo.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 03:23:52 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 28, 2024, 02:14:00 amSDS2000X Plus ?It is high compared to some other models but matches the SDS7000A spec.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 03:28:26 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 28, 2024, 03:23:52 amMaybe it was supposed to be 8,000? Just a guess.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 02:41:44 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 28, 2024, 03:23:52 amNo, 80,000 is what the docs say for the SDS800XHD. I find it hard to believe that a hardware accelerated function would be highest in the lowest model. That's not how hardware planning usually works. I also assume it was supposed to say 8,000.

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 05:07:21 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 28, 2024, 02:41:44 pmSDS8204X HDSDS824X HD measured Mask test max (average) is around 82400 test/s(Measured Fail pulses from Pass/Fail output BNC frequency with HP53131A using 1s gate. Up to maxPeakspeed is 89000 tests/s, measured (pass/fail pulses interval) using SDS3000X HDThere need note that acquisition works in burst mode. In this particular case 1 burst period was 34.7ms including around 2.6ms pause)Signal in to Ch1 10MHz and Mask test so that test fail in every acquisition.50ns/div, display dots

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 05:21:07 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on March 28, 2024, 05:07:21 pmSDS824X HD

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 05:26:07 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on March 28, 2024, 05:21:07 pmvoltsandjolts thanks for the model correctionrf-loop thanks for the testingAny ideas on why the 824X HD has such strong peformance vs the the 2000X HD and 3000X HD?SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HDMask test speed Up to 80,000 frames/sSDS2000X HDMask test speed Up to 14,000 frames/sSDS3000X HDMask test speed Up to 28,000 frames/s

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2024, 06:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on March 28, 2024, 05:07:21 pmSo you're saying the typo is the higher models instead of the 800 series?Quote from: Electro Fan on March 28, 2024, 05:26:07 pm

author: rf-loop
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2024, 04:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 28, 2024, 06:05:00 pmKindly, Please, don't put words in my mouth that I haven't said. I think the straw puppet theater belongs somewhere else - or not any - in my opinion, it is not suitable for anything.SDS3000X HD max speed is stated as up to 28000/s and it is true least at current FW 1.0.3.3.I also wonder where from come suspect or claim that it is not true.Later when/if I have idle free time to take SDS2kXHD on board (if need) I can also check it.With this test I measured ~28300 fail pulses/s from Aux BNC when test was continuously running as in image below.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2024, 04:22:37 pm
content: Quote from: rf-loop on March 29, 2024, 04:06:02 pmMy bad (even though it was posed as a question). 😉Still though, it's crazy to me that a hardware based feature would have the best performance in the worst model. Hopefully it's a temporary firmware limitation, but even that is odd since at least the 2KXHD model has had plenty of time to mature.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 08:10:04 am
content: Hi,QuoteAccording to the datasheets:SDS2000Xplus, SDS800X HD, SDS1000X HD, SDS7000A: 80.000SDS3000X HD: 28.000SDS5000Xplus, SDS6000A: 18.000SDS2000X HD: 14.000So the 2000X HD is the best model of all.However, I had never used the mask test to be able to judge whether the rate is really important in "real life" or only for data sheet fans.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 02:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 31, 2024, 08:10:04 amThis is still kinda confusing.Not sure why these specs indicate the 2000X is ”the best model of all” (maybe it’s just humor?).More importantly, while any one feature spec is just one feature spec - which may or may not be of interest to some users - this feature spec indicates that (unless it’s a documentation error) something is different about the architecture of the 2000X HD vs the product family siblings. Maybe hardware or firmware or support or some other aspect of product development?

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 03:21:05 pm
content: It was humor. Truth be told, it probably doesn't matter for most people whether it's 10k or 100k per second on a mask test; it's just the idea that they made more expensive models with a lower spec that I can't reconcile in my head.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 04:30:50 pm
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on March 31, 2024, 03:21:05 pmroger on the humorand yes this feature spec is not a big dealjust trying to understand the “why” and if there is any notable implication for the product (especially with respect to the support road map) beyond this one feature specit would be nice if someone from Siglent could explain it

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 09:17:04 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 31, 2024, 04:30:50 pmSame, I'd like to know why. I can make some guesses, but there's no point in guessing. I don't think there's any real concern for the support roadmap for any of these for at least a few years.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:27:49 pm
content: Hi,I would also be interested to know why this is the case.That it is probably not a big showstopper, this thought came to me when I found the specification in the data sheet of the SDS6000A, after all the "most powerful" SoC oscilloscope.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 10:52:55 pm
content: Maybe the (older?) 2000X HD has some different (FPGA?) resources that encouraged the designers at the time to be more conservative in how they managed/allocated the resources, and at the time the mask "budget" only got what it got? How much similarity/difference is there between the 2000X HD and the 800/1000/3000X HD? Which leads to the question of whether the 2000X HD is on some different firmware dev branch than the 800/1000/3000 X HD? Just pure speculation. Maybe rf-loop, 2N3055, Performa01, TopQuark, mawyatt, tv84, tautech, et al / others can give us an overview of the the similarities and differences of the underlying architectures of these scopes, and some thoughts on how the hardware similarities/differences might impact future firmware development, upgrade rollout, and product support across the models?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 11:38:48 pm
content: I think you are overestimating the insights that the (basically three?) siglent beta testers have.Even if they or some or at least one of them had this insight, it would be unwise to publicize it.For most end users, this is also not interesting in the sense of what benefit they get from the knowledge apart from satisfying their curiosity.Even if, as a technician, I naturally always want to know how something works together, I am basically only interested in one thing in this question.Does it make a difference or not?

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2024, 11:48:38 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 31, 2024, 11:38:48 pmMight depend on how curious someone is or what they find interesting.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 12:27:41 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on March 31, 2024, 10:52:55 pmTheir functionality and UI can be traced back to SDS5000X, which IIRC was the first to use the current UI or maybe discontinued SDS2000X ?QuoteSDS2000X HD was Siglents first 12bit model and as such much served as a development platform in some ways however initially they were priced beyond the reach of the average advanced hobbyist and SDS2000X Plus was the cheaper and more favored model.However now all latest Siglent DSO's essentially share the same UI, improvements and bug fixes are in time rolled out to all models.QuoteTypically all models use a dual ADC architecture, each with dual memory support but how they each might be configured can initiate confusion as they each have been configured in a way to meet their feature/price point vs marketplace competitors.At this stage the only model that seems different is SDS7000A as Siglent have developed their own next level acquisition HW to properly compete with other brands that offer 2-8 GHz DSO's.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2024, 04:20:05 pm
content: Hi,https://de.teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/t3dso2000hd-seriesHehehehe.....The 100Mhz model lives on, at least at Lecroy.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2024, 04:54:43 am
content: Maybe 14k was just a documentation error?@~4:15 80k pass fail decisions per second….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5gBDbsfO5Y&pp=ygUQc2lnbGVudCAxMDAweCBoZA%3D%3D

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 12:03:59 pm
content: As a follow-up to some of the Q&A in this thread regarding architectural similarities and differences that have evolved among Siglent oscilloscopes I happened to trip across various threads in the decade? long zoom-in zoom out discussions. Among the threads I forced myself to read post by post in an effort to understand what everyone was trying to communicate was this ~23 page ~2.5 year thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscope-zoom-out-quirk/msg3055600/#msg3055600By about page 23 this thread seems to have arrived at some conclusions, summarized (admittedly very simplistically) as:1. On some scopes using some settings what you get is what’s on the display.2. On some scopes using some settings what you get is what’s on the display plus more if you are willing and know how to look for it.3. On some scopes what you can see and find is substantially according to that particular scope’s default setting.4. On some scopes what you can see and find is substantially according to that particular scope’s default setting - BUT that setting can be overridden to some extent, ie to the extent the scope provides “memory management”.5. For years (a decade?) the zoom-in zoom out discussions continued (and maybe still continue) but by about page 22 in the linked thread it seems that Siglent decided to adopt/introduce a new(er) type of user configurable memory management.Among the reasons/benefits for the new memory management functionality is an enhanced capability to view and navigate waveforms and data that might have otherwise been off the display. It seems (I could be wrong about this) that the new/newer/enhanced user memory management capability didn’t make it into the 2000X Plus but did make it into the 2000X HD. Probably best to ask tautech et al which other Siglent models have the latest and greatest memory management, and if there are further distinctions in functionality among those that do.Just putting these history bread crumbs out there for anyone else that would like to shorten some of the history lesson without becoming an oscilloscope archaeologist.PS, It’s possible I’m either wrong about some of this or missing some important facts and nuances, so bring it on. No try, no learn

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 08:20:20 pm
content: QuoteThat is also the case.As far as I know, the changed management was integrated because it was necessary for the digital filter function.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 08:44:37 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 05, 2024, 12:03:59 pmBenefits are limited and reasons were to account for some workflows that struggled with display width only capture methodology also used in some other analytical DSO brands.QuoteCorrect, and we first saw Fixed memory introduced in SDS5000X IIRC.QuoteCurrent models supporting Fixed MemorySDS2000X HDSDS5000XSDS3000X HDSDS6000ASDS7000AFixed Mem has its advantages and disadvantages.Fastest and best acquisition performance is with Auto mem management.Neither suits all usage requirements.Zoom mode and its split display is preferred by some for its extended capture and capability of fine inspection of a large capture.Regardless of preference, deep memory capability always wins.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 08:54:42 pm
content: To be 100% clear, seems like this should say:Current models supporting both Fixed Memory and Auto Memory ManagementSDS2000X HDSDS5000XSDS3000X HDSDS6000ASDS7000A

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 08:59:41 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 05, 2024, 08:54:42 pmCorrect but......allmodels support Auto mem management.I should also add, and Fixed Sampling rate management

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 10:44:11 pm
content: Zoom-in Zoom-outFixed vs Auto Memory MgmtYada Yada… but seeing a 2000X HD in black might be the over edge compelling buying criteriahttps://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/05/SDS2000X-HD_Datasheet_EN02A.pdf

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 10:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 05, 2024, 10:44:11 pmI quizzed HQ when 'dark side' models were to be introduced a few month back after spotting them in posters and such.When was never revealed .....

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 11:00:11 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 05, 2024, 08:59:41 pmHowever, the “Auto Memory only” models still have a kind of manual memory preset.Just less than possible, e.g. if 100Mpts are possible, this value can be reduced via the menu.But not fixed.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 11:00:37 pm
content: Any hardware changes besides the case color?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 11:15:30 pm
content: That´s a good and interesting question Josh.However, I think Siglent wants to distinguish all their 12 bit models from the rest by color and nothing else.We will really know when someone has both and can compare them.Or simply trust the data sheet.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2024, 11:54:42 pm
content: Yes, I'm curious because we know the 1000X HD model changed with the color change, but that wasn't on the global market yet...and of course because of some things that improved since the release of the 2000X HD.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 12:19:39 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 05, 2024, 11:54:42 pmBecause HW changes were necessary to meet market expectations, SDS2000X HD, not so much as further improvement can be accomplished in FW.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 12:54:51 am
content: Quote from: KungFuJosh on June 05, 2024, 11:00:37 pm+1 for interested to learn if/as there are changes in the 2kX HD

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 01:11:41 am
content: Latest datasheet link:https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_05_29/SDS2000X%20HD_Datasheet_EN02A.pdf2022 version attached.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 01:35:47 am
content: Anyone with a known accurate freq generator up for feeding a 9,999,999.0 Hz signal into a 2k HD and seeing what counter says? Thx

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 01:38:32 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 06, 2024, 01:35:47 amDatasheet hints at this as SDS2000X HD has a good frequency reference:Time base Accuracy: ±2 ppm initial (0~50℃); ±0.5 ppm 1st year aging; ±3 ppm 20-year aging

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 02:17:14 am
content: Yep, saw that, Thx - just checking to see if someone wants to let one warm up for ~30 min and test it to see what happensI’m guessing it’s going read somewhere between ~20 Hz too high and ~20 Hz too low, but would be interesting to find out …

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 03:42:14 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 06, 2024, 02:17:14 amThose that test these instruments in greater detail than I can will tell you Siglent are conservative with their ratings.It might be half what you expect is what I'm trying to say.The little SDS800X HD for example has a much lesser timebase accuracy spec (time nuts run away) of some 25ppm yet none I have seen are anywhere that poor.Mine's ~9ppm and others I see here ~12ppm.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 06:41:52 am
content: OkLet’s see if we can get measurements from 3 users…

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 06:49:59 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 06, 2024, 02:17:14 amMine reads 10.00001 MHz cold, on switch on. After few minutes it reads 10.0000, with occasional flip to 10.00001 MHzScope is 2+ years old now.Counter is simple counter, so last digit has ±1 digit uncertainty..

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 07:10:33 am
content: ThxThat’s when you fed it an accurate 9,999,999.0 Hz?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 07:30:37 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 06, 2024, 07:10:33 am10MHz on the dot.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 07:36:19 am
content: Just for grins, what do you get when you set it for 9,999,999 Hz on the dot? Thx

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2024, 07:56:49 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on June 06, 2024, 07:36:19 amMaybe later I can connect it to AWG and see. This was just 10 MHz OCXO..The point is that last digit is 1ppm.Time base Accuracy ±2 ppm initial (0~50℃); ±0.5 ppm 1st year aging; ±3 ppm 20-year aging..So we are at 0ppm initial and <1ppm for aging in 2 years. For instance.Or, <1ppm initial error and 0ppm aging.Or <0.5ppm initial and <0.5ppm aging in 2 years..So definitely in spec.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2024, 03:27:20 pm
content: Any other users with a 2000X HD and an accurate frequency generator up for seeing what the counter says with a 9,999,999.0 Hz input signal? Thx

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2024, 03:48:21 pm
content: Not exactly what you asked, but ...............

author: gburdzin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2024, 11:38:46 pm
content: My 2000HD is only 1.5 months old with very little use so far (single digit hours). When I feed it a 9 999 999 Hz signal from an SDG2042X that is using a GPSDO external reference, the scope's frequency counter is showing 10.00000MHz.When I adjust the frequency down 1Hz at a time, the scope's frequency counter changes briefly but then settles back to 10.00000MHz. Once I hit 9 999 994Hz on the source, the scope's frequency counter finally ends up settling to a value of 9.99998MHz.Adjusting the frequency up 1Hz at a time, the scope's frequency counter shows 10.00001MHz when the source is set to 10 000 001Hz, but then stays there until the source reaches 10 000 012Hz, at which point the scope shows a reading of 10.00002MHz.I hope that helps.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2024, 01:00:11 am
content: Assuming I'm RTFM correctly, the SDG2000X series frequency accuracy is +/- 1ppm, which for a 10MHz signal would be +/- 10Hz.Timebase accuracy for the SDS2000X+ is also +/- 1ppm, and for the SDS2000X HD it's ±2 ppm initial (0~50℃); ±0.5 ppm 1st year aging.I did the same test with my SDG2122X and SDS2504X+, and the frequency counter in the top corner could be manipulated to ~9999999 Hz by dropping similarly as above. However, using the stats display, it was always varying with the mean generally on 10 000 xxx Hz.Either way, I don't think this combination of devices is accurate enough for this test to do anything meaningful unless manipulating the source signal to get your target frequency on the scope is the goal.ETA: The internal AWGs on both scopes say accuracy is 50ppm. I'm still curious to see what the result of that one is in comparison.