Blown USB - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 02:48:23 pm
content: Hey there.I made a stupid mistake and some voltage slipped into my laptop. I was actualy making an 3D printer when some 220 mains slipped into my arduino board blowing up the arduino, 4 stepper drivers and 3 of my usb(the one I had the board connected to is the only one remaining). I did measure the other usb's and i found that I dont have the 5V on it. I did try to give it 5V from the other usb and see if it works but it does not. Is there a way I can find out were is the IC controller of the usb on my notebook's motherboard?. Sorry if I posted in the wrong place. My device is a Lenovo ideapad Y580.

author: Legit-Design
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 03:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: raulprodan on May 17, 2014, 02:48:23 pmYes there is a way to find it. Depending how it is built the USB IC is probably near usb ports. You trace the traces coming from USB ports and check the IC markings with google. Or post pictures here if you cannot find any relevant pictures about the insides with google. Since you are only missing 5V line probably there is a surface mount fuse that has blown. Could try external 5 volt powersupply to check if there is any usb at all?

author: true
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 03:33:08 pm
content: Many modern designs will fuse either each USB port or set of ports individually - and if you're lucky it's just the fuse. But if you did verify with external 5V that USB isn't working, then the ports are probably shot, unless the design uses an internal USB hub (unlikely on your Ideapad). Modern USB is all attached to a SoC or what used to be called a "southbridge" - you're also lucky the entire unit didn't go down

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 03:42:11 pm
content: Usually USB comes directly from the chipset. You will be lucky if there is some switch IC in between. Is that connector black or blue? If it is blue, then this is USB 3.0 port which often have separate controller IC (depends on chipset used). It might be an answer why your laptop still boots. Partially working chipsets with blown USB ports are not unusual however.

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 04:02:05 am
content: Thank you for all your replys. Yes I have bouth USB 3.0 and USB 2.0. I did read somewere that the usb that was connected to the board blew is the only usb that I can charge devices with, so it might have some more protection circuits. I think also that the fact that it is on another board and connected through flatflex might be an indicator that those traces are time multiplexed not and not run directly to the mother board. There is a IC on the MB near the flat flex end. But this one works...

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 11:31:42 am
content: On isolation failures when mains gets to run where it wasn't supposed to, it usually leaves very visible black burned or missing traces and evaporated ic pins.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 11:53:48 am
content: You can find the schematic by searching "LA-8002P"; Compal is the OEM.Unfortunately the USB controller is integrated into the chipset, but if it's only a power issue you can try looking at the protection components.

author: rexxar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 05:50:27 pm
content: Could the ESD protection have failed short to ground, maybe?

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 05:57:05 pm
content: I wll post some pictures later with themater board. But until then, t is clear that 220V from the mains got into the usb via the arduino? Iwill post the picture with the arduino board.

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 07:42:16 pm
content: Top View:Bottom View:Aux Board:To be clear again, the arduino that is posted a higher was connected to the USB2.0 on the 'Aux Board' and the other ones don't work anymore. This one is fine. But I dont think it gives me the "A power scourge has occurred" popup, anymore, if i short it out by mistake.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 11:32:39 am
content: I think it's safe to say that the USB controller in the chipset is dead.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 12:28:11 pm
content: You're lucky that the laptop even boots. USB protection is designed to deal with stuff like short to GND, dataline shorts etc. Not 380Vpeak mains.Replacing the southbridge (if that's nor BER) may also not solve the problem, as something else on the way could have been blown too.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 01:44:06 pm
content: Dataline shorts are not protected anymore. The datalines only have esd diodes, some resistors and maybe some ferrites.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 03:38:47 pm
content: well illumated sharp pictures around the usb ports. if you have a bit of luck just the esd diodes, but how on earth could mains get onto that arduino board?

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 04:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: M. András on May 19, 2014, 03:38:47 pmWell I went home made with the design of the 3D printer and used a chinese thing to heat up the fillament, instead of a propper heating element. I dont even know yet how it was possible. I think that the heating element inside the chamer moved and made contact with tho outer case allowing some voltage to transfer.BTW I dont know if I did a good thing or a bad thing by joining the ground of the latop(not actually a ground) to the ground of the soket I was using.

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 02:19:09 am
content: I did a similar thing, but with only 24v volts. Luckily, my laptop had a PCMCIA slot so I could get a PCMCIA usb card.

author: paulhm81
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 07:26:41 am
content: If the chipset is the culprit you can replace it for a reasonable price. In my area it's around 100 euros to get it done including the chip. That would be in cluj. Then again I'm wondering about the missing 5V on the ports. That has little to do with the chipset imo.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 05:47:50 pm
content: Quote from: raulprodan on May 19, 2014, 04:08:21 pmIt was a bad thing but you probably did not have much choice. USB is only rarely isolated so it is easy to create a major ground loop during fault conditions. This is a big flaw with devices that have separate power supplies and use USB for communications.The solution is either to not use USB or use some form of galvanically isolated USB port. Isolated USB hubs and bridges are available but only recently have they become inexpensive and none that i know of are faster than 12 Mbits/second. Sometimes with a PC you can rely on an inexpensive USB peripheral card to localize the damage but that is not always a sure thing.Serial ports like RS-232 have the same problem with lack of galvanic isolation but at least they are trivial to isolate. USB (and Firewire) is so much of a major pain in this respect that Ethernet is a good alternative.

author: fluxcapacitor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 11:49:27 pm
content: Have you tried the USB`s with another OS such as a linux live cd .If the USB`s are working under linux its a windows proble,the ports could have disabled themselves, theres an "fixit" tool from microsoft to fix such problems -http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900Its also possible,but unlikely,that the usb`s are disabled in the bios.Worth a check.

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 04:49:03 pm
content: UPDATE!So I did have time to do some extensive tests. The data lines are working. I did manage to connect Vcc from the working USB, through some external circuits, to the other USB and they worked. Then I tried to solder some wires inside the notebook form the same USB Vcc to the others. I did test them one by one and all togheter and they worked. Then when I mounted everything back together it failed. Now not even the only one left does not work. I did measure it and it only has 3.4 - 3.1 V on it. I have no ideea what I did wrong. I did not measure it in the beginning but I did asumme that it has 5V. Any solutions? cause now I dont have any working USB's and I suspect that the battery is draining faster. Not sure of this. I did cut everything I did out but ofcourse it does not work.

author: Nickk2057
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 05:07:33 pm
content: use a laptop cradle... meaning the things that the laptop goes into so that you can get other ports and such.... if those work on there then you SHOULD be set..... (if those are not blown too)

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 09:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: Nickk2057 on May 27, 2014, 05:07:33 pmThat will not help. They have not made any docking station for the ideapad. Or at least I dont have any way of connecting to one.

author: raulprodan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2014, 09:31:53 pm
content: So to recap. I did blow the 5V mains from my USBs by allowing 220AC, or a part of it, on hte usb port. I did some tests, and all the data lines are intact, at least for USB2.0. I did had one remaining USB that does not work anymore. Given the fact that this was the USB that made contact with the mains, I think that the some of the circuit was already damaged, and today when I was doing my testing I did pull more current from it(with an external HDD that did not spin BTW) and caused more damage. Now this port is reading 3.1V instead of 5V and ofc no device works with this. My ideea is that I destroyed some regulators or some fuses, so if you could help me look for them that would be great. I dont really have experience with parts this small, or complex.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2014, 12:19:09 pm
content: Get the schematic (or the pages I posted earlier might be enough) and start tracing where the 5V comes from. 3.xV might be a polyfuse that needs some time to recover, you'll need to look at the circuits to be sure.