A Full beginner starting componet kits all in one box! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 01:45:29 am
content: I had such a hard time getting all I needed since I don't have an electronics shop near buy. Second problem was waiting for parts from china only to find they sent the wrong ones, orI was stalled by needing one part that took two weeks too long to get.This is my idea for new members: I will work with you help find he most popular parts, then neatly package them into kits with nice documentation of pin out and resistor color code charts and cap code parts etc. I will buy them in bulk from all over, spot check a few, then box them up into small med large RF Arduino etc. kitsThe best part is the parts are already by a usps hub in USA and international shipping can be done cheaply and quickly the same day. If people have questions I speak perfect English and will get email back during normal business hours.I was also thinking of stocking tools like hayco's and solder pumps wicks.The goal is to do this at around cost(members only) so the price is the same but cuts out 20 different suppliers having to price shop, and waiting weeks of shipping for some thing that doesn't come. Have a Problem? Send email. Problem solved.Also thinking about sending refills for when you kit gets low on one part you use a lot.What I need from you guys is a list of most common parts with the "Small Med Large and RF" box type in mind, and where you bought it from so I can just start placing big orders.I also want to package them up in nice plastic boxes with optional paper or electronic instructions of what they can make out of it if they are new.Could also do a subscription service too! I am a business man by background so this should be easy for me.So what can you recommend for parts and what supplier would need them?Also I want to give away free units to members once it starts as a token of appreciation for your help and seeing how the product could be improved.Nothing better then looking up a project to build and saying I have all those parts lets start now!

author: rcowboy78
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 02:56:28 am
content: I think Jameco already does this in the US. They are called grab bags. they have a 2lb bag of a bunch of misc parts. Then of course they have capacitor bags of all different sorts from mylar to electrolytic. Then they have a grab bag for resistors, 7400 series, IC's, transistors, etc. However, if your looking for specific parts, then you'll have to order those individually. They're not all that expensive either, but you gotta add shipping. If you order over $25 from Jameco you get free shipping on your second order.Just though I'd throw that option out there.They also have refill bags.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 05:15:32 am
content: And Jameco sells assortments in a nice plastic container with drawers and labelshttp://www.jameco.com/z/00081832-540-Piece-1-4-Watt-5-Carbon-Film-Resistor-Component-Kit_81832.htmlThey also have several kits for various types of capacitorshttp://www.jameco.com/shop/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&freeText=capacitor%20component%20kitI have ordered some inductors and such from China and the wait is far beyond my attention span. I just buy my parts from DigiKey.

author: mgraves235
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 09:43:05 am
content: i don't have much advice, as far as suppliers go, but i think you have some great ideas. There are no electronics dealers anywhere near me, and i've also had numerous projects stalled while waiting on components from china, only to receive the wrong items. I like the idea of a member club, and really like the subscription service idea, possibly with options that cater to different aspects, i.e, avr stuff, programmable micro controller stuff, etc.. I wish you the best of luck with this endevour. I'd love to give you my business.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 12:37:07 pm
content: Another thing to consider: a parts kit for the Art of Electronics and/or the study guide. Many people here have complained that those books' examples/experiments rely on parts that are obsolete, or are only available special-order in large quantities. So a kit of parts (using sensible substitutions for the obsolete parts) would be a huge service.Others here have put together parts lists for the major parts distributors, but it seems that no one distributor carries all of the parts.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 01:37:33 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on August 07, 2017, 01:45:29 amAll that has a cost. Charge (a fair price) for it!If you want to do it as a hobby/favor for the hobbyists (like me), that's fine as well, but even there you're probably going to want to add some markup to cover returns, lost shipments, payment fees, scammers, etc (so that you don't end up losing money overall). If you want to do it as a side hustle/business, charge even a little more to make a profit. There are a lot of hobbyists with more money than time to devote to the hobby, and people in that situation won't blink at a reasonable markup if you've clearly added value (by saving time, curating lists, finding replacement parts for AoE shopping lists/projects, etc).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 03:34:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on August 07, 2017, 12:37:07 pmDigiKey has a parts kit for Learning The Art Of Electronicshttps://www.digikey.com/en/resources/edu/harvard-lab-kitI don't know if it is complete and I don't know if substitutions have been made. I do know that it is fairly expensive - about $270 for the combined analog and digital kits.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 05:07:04 pm
content: Kitting is $expen$ive$ either in setup costs to automate it or in per piece labour costs. US minimum wage varies per state (and in some cases per city, with NY expected to reach $15/h next year) upwards from the federal minimum of $7.25/h. Average pay in China is around $4.90 USD/h and the minimum wage in Shenzhen is only $2.90 USD/h, so its typically going to cost around 3x as much to kit in the US, and you'll have difficulty getting quality staff, so your defect rate is likely to be higher.Lets consider a high end through hole resistor kit: 10x E12 values resistors for all decades from 10R up to the 100K decade and E6 values for 1R and 1Meg decades, so 840 resistors total in bandoleer taped strips of 10. That's 84 strips per kit. Assuming you've got the space to kit 1000 units at a time (i.e. spread out 1000 kit boxes, say 10 across by 100, long on a *Loooooooong* workbench), for each value you need to cut 1000 pieces of 10 from the bandoleer, stamping the value on the tape (I did say high quality kit) at lets say 4 seconds per piece and lets guess the setup time is 5 minutes (get reels or bandoleer boxes from stock, set stamp, return excess stock, update stock level), add 1 second per kit to walk along the bench dropping a strip in each box and you are up to 5300 seconds, or 5.3 seconds per kit. Times 84 and allowing about 5 seconds to close and seal the kit box, you are looking at 0.125 of an hour per kit. Assuming you can maintain about 90% productive work, that will put $1 on the cost of each kit or $2 in NY. Kit that in Shenzhen, paying halfway between minimum and national average wages so you can recruit and retain good workers, and with the higher cultural tolerance for micro-management, you can probably kit that for $0.50 USD per piece. N.B. that's labour costs only. There will be per unit costs for packing materials, and also amortization and recurring overheads that need to be divided [per unit over the the total kit production.That's not even a complicated kit - throw one of each item in a small box. There's no individual bagging or added packing materials to protect individual fragile parts and minimal individual labelling. The extra handling required will push the labour costs up considerably for more complex kits.I just don't see how its possible to compete on commodity component kits against EBAY sellers if you are doing your kitting in a 1st world country. I think the only model that may work is to operate it as a club, where the members put together a list of parts wanted, and as soon as you have 90 signups for a particular list, qty 100 of each item are ordered, (to allow for shortages and defects) and when all parts are received about 10 volunteers come in and kit, and get a kit for their labour. However that require *MUCH* more organisation and commitment than low-level club kitting*which is difficult enough to organise unless there is an established tradition of it in that club. Also it only takes one flake to screw things up badly . . .The economics differ considerably if you are kitting rare and/or high value parts. The tighter control you get kitting locally and faster time to market make it viable *IF* you can get the volume. Kitting the $270 kit mentione above probably doesn't even come to 5% ($13.50) of its RRP.* eg: a group of 10 members agrees a parts list and divides it up between them, then you all go off and order your 1/10 of it, repack in 10 bags and meet up again to swap one of your 1/10 kit bags for one of each of the othersP.S. I cant think of a quicker way of killing your enthusiasm for the hobby than getting into high volume kitting.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 05:29:00 pm
content: This thread is worth a read as well, including my recommendation for an initial stockpile.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/from-no-parts-to-decent-stockpile-best-approach/msg1153564/#msg1153564

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 03:03:13 pm
content: Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the weeks of waiting for china post is ridiculous. It would be cool if we could somehow give them away to young people that sign up for the board. I know Dave makes money/ his living off this board so I don't want to have it cut into any of his sponsors if this would apply. The idea isn't to make a business but kind of make it an organized group buy thing, maybe get a whole weeks worth of orders and have one person per continent. That way if we do have to get parts from china they will be sitting in NA or Europe or AZ and be ready to go in a few days time. I know china has really cheap labor but they can't beat my cost: it would be free.I should also add I have owned quite a few businesses in my life including rick and mortor locations so I have a good eye for business and learned what to do and more importantly what NOT to do over the years. Like hire an employee with a secret drug problem that can only sell while on drugs.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 09:49:50 pm
content: Better to make it a public project/BOM at a distributor like Mouser or Digikey. Let them deal with the packing and shipping.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 10:32:23 pm
content: I had similar though at one point, when first getting into SMD resistor/caps. At least for these, you could use snail mail regular flat envelopes and a few stamps to send a lot of parts in cut tape.I started into SMD resistors by buying a couple of lots of partial reels of resistors on eBay for couple bucks a reel. But ended up with lots of redundant parts in certain values. It would be cool to be able to send these to people who would use them...But it really takes a lot of quantity to make sense. You can buy a whole reel of resistors for $10.00, new. If you divide 5k resistor enough times, even the snail mail letter rate of postage is going to be excessive. And sending full reels takes some amount of packaging. The middle ground doesn't make much sense, either.I like the idea of a Mouser/Digikey cart. And looking at Mouser from different countries, it looks like the kit should cost over 50 euros in order to make free shipping for EU. If you think there's $$ to be made, I think you're wrong. Mouser and Digikey and Newark will crush you on selection, let alone logistics, searchability, and efficiency. China will crush you on cost of resistor/cap kits. A "noob" kit, besides being completely different things to different people, can only be bought once, and partial refills will be very inefficient unless your time is worthless. The noobs will either buy once then drop the endeavor, or they will continue on using established channels and with confidence to use cheaper and better parts for given application, out of variety of tens of thousands of options rather than using jelly bean parts just because they don't know how to read a datasheet.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 05:17:07 am
content: The idea isn't to make profit but rather to make it so people on this site (especially new people) can get a bunch of parts from the US(since I am and most members are) in a few days without having to go shop around and spend an hour trying to find best value part at the best cost then trying to find shipping options and you are not stuck waiting 5 weeks for one part to come.What I would like to do is have different flavors of kits available with a lot of through holes since making your own pcb's isn't something you start with, I have been doing this hobby for quite awhile and still doing wire wrap.Then have threads where you get step by step instructions on how to make particular circuits since you will have all the parts you need then, you can ask questions and see others revisions and mods for it.When I started this I always found I was missing one part. I would order that one part and either pay too much or get it from china and totally forget about it by the time it came in the mail.I'm willing to start this I just need input as to where what to buy since I'm still kind of new and could use more parts myself.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 01:35:39 am
content: I'm reposting from another thread, but this is my suggestion of where to startIf I were building a kit for beginners from scratch, it would haveresistors (10/ea) 1, 4R7, 10, 22, 47, 1M, 2M2, 4M7resistors (25/ea) 100, 220, 470, 1k, 2k2, 4k7, 10k, 22k, 47k, 100k, 220k, 470kcaps (ceramic, 5/ea) 22p / 47p / 100p / 220p / 470p / 2n2 / 4n7 / 22n / 47ncaps (ceramic, 20/ea) 1n, 10n, 100ncaps (electrolytic, 16-25v, 5/ea) / 0.47 / 1u / 2u2 / 4u7 / 10u / 22u / 47u / 100u / 220u / 470u / 1000u (maybe a 10/ea of the 10, 100uF)diodes (15/ea) 1N4004, 1N4148transistors/fets (10/ea) 2N4401, 2N4403, 2N7000 (maybe more 01s fewer 03s)power fet (5/ea) IRLB8721I think most beginners fixate too much on the transistors. a 2N4401/03 will nicely replace most general purpose Si transistors like 3904/2222/BC107/BC547

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 02:22:47 am
content: QuoteAdd some slightly more exotic diodes to that:* BAT43 - 200mA 30V Schottky* A small selection of LEDs* A small selection of 300mW Zeners in the 3.3V to 12V rangeIt also needs some other bits:* 5x NPN TO-126 package medium power transistors e.g. BD135 or similar,* 2x PNP TO-126 package medium power transistors complimentary to above e.g. BD136 or similar* 2x 555 timers* 2x jellybean OPAMPs - but choose ones that are nicer than the uA741!* 2x LM317 regulatorsSindgedFingerssuggested:* 2x each trim-pots carbon: 100R, 2K, 5K, 10K, 50K, 100KEdit: Added regulators, trim-pots + quoted boffin's list

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 11:29:39 pm
content: This is getting good. Really gives me a starting point. Now to figure out what the cost vs how many kits you could make. I don't feel comfortable trying to make money off this as this isn't my forum and if it does make a profit it should go to the forum patreon. Maybe an optional donation with each one?

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 12:17:26 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 18, 2017, 11:29:39 pmGood luck

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 12:22:34 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 19, 2017, 12:17:26 amWho is in your avatar?

author: alexanderbrevig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 12:26:41 am
content: Quote from: Beamin on September 19, 2017, 12:22:34 amGoogle image search;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_Girl_Wants_(Christina_Aguilera_song)EDIT: FWIW I'd buy such a kit, at a surcharge, when I started out "for real". I even contemplated doing what you're consideringI concluded it will be too much hazzle unless the price makes it worth it to pack, label and ship. Making it worth it means some beginner has to be charged for my time.Maybe a way to contribute would be to host shopping carts for sites that supports this?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 12:33:59 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 07, 2017, 03:34:47 pmUrgh. Something about digikey's website won't allow me to even view the list, since I'm not in USA. Stupid automatic region identification. I can't even override it manually...

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 01:27:07 am
content: Quote from: tooki on September 19, 2017, 12:33:59 amUse a proxy or tor? Would be either slow or a pain in the ass either way. Some sites like google automatically think your doing something bad if they think you are using tor. That's the big reason why I don't use it. Capcha's pop up every where and I can never get the image right without 5 tries. Such a pain in the ass and playing the sound is just as bad as the picture.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 01:36:43 am
content: QuoteYou can pick one via Profile --> Forum Profile then in the upper right. I choose musicians.When I used my real photo it scared away people and I got complaints.I once posted a question and got really crazy answers from members such as write a custom program to do what I wanted. I got a good answer (it was a setting in Explorer) from someone who has posted only one post and that was for my question. To this day I think he thought it was my pictureand if I had used my real picture he would not have answered me.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 07:34:41 pm
content: If I plan a project on the weekend and order the parts from Digikey on Sunday evening, I will have them by Thursday using Priority Mail. I have a bunch of parts, sure, but they are mostly leftovers from other projects. If I need 3, I buy 10; that kind of thing.I did buy a resistor, capacitor and electrolytic capacitor kit from Jameco and I have refilled it with leftovers ever since. All I really wanted was the cabinets.The list of parts above (boffin's list of resistors, capacitors and transistors) will make a good kit. Just order it from Digikey and be done with it.The idea of hunting around for the very best price, hoping to get quality components for cheap, is a waste of time. All of the stuff coming out of Digikey is quality and the prices are what they are. Time is money and waiting for questionable components out of China seems to me to be a waste of time.

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2017, 12:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 19, 2017, 01:36:43 amWant instant help on a car forum and all your posts read? Put a picture of one of your girl/exgirl friend in your avatar and sig. If you are a basement loaner find a cute but not super hot girl on the 34th page of google images (where they can't reverse image it easily that's why a real person works better) taken from a cell phone camera. Put that in your sig with an ambiguous login name like "dandyBMWgurl" and you will get all your questions answered no matter how stupid.