First self-driving car ticketed - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 08:18:06 pm
content: Lots of self-driving car news of late. This was one day after the the pedestrian died.SAN FRANCISCO (KPIX 5) — A self-driving car was slapped with a ticket after police said it got too close to a pedestrian on a San Francisco street.A witness, Kevin O’Connor, snapped a photo after seeing the motorcycle officer pull over the self-driving car as O’Connor drove through the South of Market area last week. “There was another car stopped alongside and he looked a little befuddled,” said O’Connor. “The cop was just writing a regular ticket like they always do.”According to data collected by Cruise, the pedestrian was 10.8 feet away from the car when, while the car was in self-driving mode, it began to continue down Harrison at 14th St. Shortly after the car accelerated, the officer pulled it over.[more at the source site linked below]Quoted from:http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/03/27/self-driving-car-ticketed-san-francisco/

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 08:37:40 pm
content: How 10 ft is too close? Have they seen human drivers in SF? Somebody is not saying something here.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 08:44:42 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 28, 2018, 08:37:40 pmI don't know the California vehicle code, but in several other states, you must stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk and remain stopped until they clear the crosswalk (even after they've passed you laterally, you need to stay stopped until they exit the crosswalk). Failure to do so is a ticketable offense.Yeah, yeah, it's very commonly ignored, but it does explain how a pedestrian could be > 10 feet away and a "driver" still get a ticket.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 08:46:56 pm
content: Well, maybe. But it sort of looks like the self-driving car got selected for being self-driving. Otherwise you can just make a decent buck by sitting on any corner of SF and just ticketing people left and right.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 09:59:52 pm
content: Quote from: sokoloff on March 28, 2018, 08:44:42 pmDid anyone look at the live test of the self driving cars on the other thread? The cars would stop for a pedestrian but then they took off again just soon as they couldsqueezepast the simulated pedestrian. I don't know if all self driving cars operate that way but it looks like different laws and different interpretations in different jurisdictions is one more thing that the owners are going to have to deal with.It appears to me that these live tests have been pretty successful in finding a lot of flaws in the way that the self driving cars were intended to operate. I'm not saying that someone got killed in every instance but OTOH there's no way that a self driving car should have gotten a ticket for something like this! It shows that the designers and programmers missed something.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 10:17:19 pm
content: This is what happens when they try to re-invent the steering wheelBS companies with too much gullible investor cash and no brains, trying to cater for lazy fools who would like to be 'driven'rather than get off their obese behinds and drive a simple automatic car themselves, and show some courtesy on the roadThere is a reason we have Public Transport, cab drivers, chauffeurs...and LEGS and FEETIf I ever need an eco-friendly self driving vehicle, I'll get a horse and buggy rig with some solar powered fittingsLet's seewhois actually liable to pay for that ticket...get ready for the legal wrangle I suspect will follow, and the media circus

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 10:19:08 pm
content: I would like to be driven. This will make my commute much more pleasant and safe.But sure, "get off my lawn" attitude is very helpful here.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2018, 11:08:54 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 28, 2018, 09:59:52 pmThat is why we test things. That's what breadboards and prototypes are for in the electronics world. Spice only gets you so far...

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 12:16:40 am
content: I'm curious to know **how** a police office goes about pulling over an autonomous car. Can the car software recognise a policeman making 'stop' hand gestures, or flashing lights?Or is there a standard wireless signal police can send to an autonomous car, telling it 'you're busted, pull over'?If the latter, how long till hackers learn the codes?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 12:45:34 am
content: ^ There was a live person in the car, so the question is irrelevant in this case. But in general, yes, AV's have to recognize and pull over for all sorts of emergency vehicles running code. Not to mention stopped school buses, construction zones, flagmen.We're missing a key piece of data...namely, which direction was the pedestrian moving in? Toward or away from the car? If it was toward, I would lean toward supporting the officer's decision.Having extensive data recorded by the car itself is going to matter. In court it will increasingly be more than just cops opinion vs driver's opinion, and some of the more aggressive ticket givers may have to adjust to that reality, to avoid losing too many court cases. Of course, that goes the other way around too. Prosecutors can use the cars data as evidence to convict, particularly in felony cases where the burden of proof is high.Here's the California Vehicle Code that seems to apply here:Quote

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 12:46:00 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on March 29, 2018, 12:16:40 amThere was some video on this. Yes, they do recognize flashing lights and hand gestures. This also includes road workers holding SLOW/STOP sign, etc. That is in theory. In practice, at this time, a human has to ho this.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 01:20:05 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 29, 2018, 12:46:00 am* Under ideal conditions.I expect this will become a thing. Fooling driverless cars into doing silly things, by waving at them. Cardboard cutouts of police propped up by the road. And so on."a human has to ho this" Plenty of ho ho ho all round.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 01:22:25 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on March 29, 2018, 01:20:05 amWell, guess what? It is a thing with human drivers as well. There are videos of pranksters dressed as workers waving cars into roads that don't go anywhere.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 02:32:18 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 29, 2018, 01:22:25 amSure, but it's not very common. With autonomous cars, I expect it will become a very popular prank.Who can be first to get an autonomous car to drive into a river, for instance.What happens if you surround an autonomous car with traffic cones?How many cameras do they have? What happens when two or three of them get bug-splats?Producers of these cars are imagining their cars have to cope with traffic and environments as they are now (before autonomous cars.) They're forgetting that the presence of autonomous vehicles will result in changes in people's intent towards traffic.There's going to be a whole new chapter in the book of unintended consequences.Edit to add: Btw, google 'autonomous fighting vehicles'. Once those get used in some real war, public reaction to that concept is going to factor in as well.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 02:53:27 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on March 29, 2018, 12:16:40 am...and how long before the robot drone police pull the self driven t!meb0mb/s over for not having the latest firmware update and maps,slap an -UNROADWORTHY- sticker on it,and the passenger slacker has to either hoof it home old schoolor consider a public transport adventure, sharing the experience with the commoner/lower caste rabbleassuming the car doesn't get John Deere'D first, left in an alleyway and stripped down for parts by the local 'disassembly' gangs during moonlight hoursLet's see how the insurance companies roll with all this Murphy blessed self drive car BS

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2018, 06:49:05 am
content: And, don't forget these:Others exist...