New Rigol DS7000 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: extronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 06:35:39 am
content: Have you seen?http://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20180515/MSO7000&DS7000_QuickGuide_EN&CN.pdfhttp://www.rigol.com/File/TechDoc/20180515/MSO7000&DS7000_DataSheet_CN.pdfonly Chinese, but have a look on photos and tablesQuick spec:100-500MHz bandwidth10" multipoint touch screen10GSa/s ADCrefresh rate 600 000 waveforms per secmemory for 450 000 waveformsHDMI for extrernal display2 channel waveform generator16 channel logic analyzerRS232/UART, I2C, SPI, CAN, LIN, I2S, FlexRay, MIL-STD-1553 decodingWonder if it's hackable

author: Daruosha
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:29:53 am
content: I wonder who designes their new line of products. Just look at the "quick" buttonIs it a toy with matching shaped buttons or a serious tool?However spec sheet looks interesting.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 10:04:01 am
content: Yes, the Rigol designer did create some quite 'special' designs in the past year.I have no idea, what they intend. Probably something like"oh, this button with the cutout at the top right corner has already been used 5 times now. This is boring, lets now use one with a cutout on the lower left area..... and then some with a missing top left corner ..... and now lets use one rotated by 90° to show that we are progressive".And these strange moving lines to group buttons - yuck.Probably the user shall call him lucky that they do not use blinking RGB LEDs all over the unit.If you look closely at the screenshot you can see that this 'design' is also been used in the software itself.User friendly is defined differently..... I am so glad that I can use my boring Keysight DSOX4000 series scope.Anyway, here the datasheet is available in English:http://emin.vn/media/uploads/mso7000.pdfEdit: I added a picture where I noted some of the thoughts the Rigol designer might had during the design..... and a website with a (useless) video and two pictures of the PCB of the DS7000 scope:http://www.rigol.com/DS7000/DS7000.HTML

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 10:08:22 am
content: Actually usability is a good reason to have some different shape/size buttons, some different grouping lines etc. But, that scope design might not be a good example on how to use them

author: nrxnrx
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 10:33:56 am
content: Found a site with prices. Never heard of them, but here they are:https://www.yoycart.xxxxx/Product/570032364221/(replace "xxxxx" with "com")$3572.23 - DS7014 (100MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)$5759.01 - DS7024 (200MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)$12944.13 - DS7034 (350MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)$16737.52 - DS7054 (500MHz 4-channel 10GSa s)$5580.50 - MSO7014 (100M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)$7811.90 - MSO7024 (200M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)$14506.12 - MSO7034 (350M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)$18968.93 - MSO7054 (500M 4 16-channel Logic 10G)Edit: The prices above are wrong (or not in USD). See below:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg1603999/#msg1603999

author: extronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 11:26:53 am
content: OMGI can buy Rohde&Schwarz RTB2004 with all options for 3600 EUR.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 11:42:24 am
content: Quote from: extronic on June 05, 2018, 11:26:53 amYes, but the RTB2004 is pretty limited in many aspects. This DS7000 scope should probably be compared to the RTM3000 series.Also: 3600 Euro = $4200, thus no big difference (though nobody know what the Rigol options will cost), but the RTB2004 will offer much less than the DS7000 for the money.

author: extronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 11:57:07 am
content: Quote from: Pinkus on June 05, 2018, 11:42:24 amWhat exactly do you mean with "much less"?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 12:20:27 pm
content: https://gsmserver.com.ua/nfs/product/876444/file/MSODS7000.pdfInteresting details..@extronic much less in every aspect... read the info..We'll see how mature it will be at release... But in theory, very interesting...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 12:33:37 pm
content: If the prices are right then it is very expensive. Especially for a Rigol. The R&S RTM3000 is a better candidate to compare against (but the RTM3000 has 10bit ADCs, 1GHz and a higher resolution screen for the same price). The Rigol presentation never mentions the number of ADC bits. Also the 10Gs/s is a bit misleading. With 4 channels you have 2.5Gs/s.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 01:50:35 pm
content: Looks like a ds4000 replacement, hopefully with more polish this time. If any of the Chinese manufacturers are going to have a chance of fighting in the pro market they're going to have to offer superb quality. Why would anyone risk ordering one for work instead of the well established brands, regardless of value.

author: darkstar49
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 02:28:33 pm
content: 'wondering why 10GS/s (per channel, as per the data sheet...) for 500Mhz max??or they'll show up with higher bandwidth models later on... but anyway, if the mentioned prices are correct, 19K for a 500Mhz MSO sounds pretty ridiculous... one could probably get a Keysight S-Series, R&S RTO or many other higher-end scope for that money...

author: Tommmy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 03:18:14 pm
content: Hi, played with it at Hamradio Friedrichshafen last Weekend. (only DS7054)It feels like the MSO4024 which i have at work only better, thanks to the touch screen.The Exhibitors says it's 7XXX€ for MSO7054 without any Options.I added Scans from the flyer.You can now use 4 decoders at the same time. (who needs 4 at the same time)

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 04:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: Tommmy on June 05, 2018, 03:18:14 pm4 is really pretty much. Seldom I use three at one time, usually I need only one or two.Even better: at Rigol this meansbi-directionaldecoder, not this Rohde&Schwarz bullsh*t where (RTB2004) each direction uses one of the two available decoder (thus RxandTx: no decoder left - or: MOSIandMISO: no decoder left).As Rigol counts one decoder always as a bi-directional decoder, for R&S (in their counting scheme), this would mean the DS7000 does come with 8 decoder!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 07:40:29 pm
content: Quote from: bugi on June 05, 2018, 10:08:22 amIf that "Quick" button is designed to be used with the thumb then it looks fine to me.Cute, but it's not as if you need to read the text on that button more than, like, twice in your entire life.If that button is there instead of pushing the multifunction knob then you'll be praising deity when you actually have to use this 'scope.(and if not, thenRigol)

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:06:26 pm
content: Specs look promising... but it's really too bad it's only an 8 bit converter. If they could have gotten to 10 bits or so that really would be high end scope specs. I guess with so much sampling rate, you can probably get an effective 10 or 11 bits even on a 500MHz signal, but still, if the bandwidth cap is 500MHz, I'd certainly prefer more bits out of the ADCs over higher sample rate.

author: ch_scr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:25:53 pm
content: It looks to me like the real news is Rigol is announcing its series of ASICs called "Ultravision II" Family. Seems to consist of differential probe, frontend, ADC and clock / processing ASIC. The presentation shows they really don't need a lot of expensive periphery, except the RAM and some nondescript dual core application processor. So a lot more of the customer money gets into their pocket, less of the money gets into the pockets of FPGA, ADC, frontend, clock IC makers. I would say it is big news for Rigol and we will see a whole family of new devices based on this, being released in the expensive to cheap order. I also would say this marks a milestone in the growth of Rigol and shows they really think big and have deep pockets, developing all these ASICs at once. Also note they develop ASICs for what is scope specific (=expensive) and leave out the mass market stuff (RAM, AP).Edit: typo

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 08:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: ch_scr on June 05, 2018, 08:25:53 pmI tend to agree. Which was the last new Rigol scope Dave has showed / tore down? It wouldn't surprise me if it is the DS1054Z from a few years ago.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 09:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on June 05, 2018, 08:06:26 pmThey couldn't drop the sample rate much since it halves for 2, and 4 channels. So at 4 it's just 2.5gs/s.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 10:32:43 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 05, 2018, 09:00:26 pmOof, yeah I see that now. I suppose it's probably a single asic scope, then? I assume that means we'll likely see a higher end variant with a pair of asics with a couple years time at the new top end... though at the pricepoint of these, would having two asics in one scope so they could manage 5Gs/s on 4 channels even be competitive with stuff at the 20k+ pricepoint they'd likely be at? I guess that's all conjecture, but maybe there's a different version of the same core/chip that will come into a new higher end version - I assume there will be cut down derivatives of this on the lower end, in time, too.

author: darkstar49
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2018, 01:58:01 pm
content: On page 6 (section1), they mention "up to 10GS/s real-time sample rateper channel"But from the rest of the data sheet, pretty unclear...

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2018, 06:40:06 pm
content: QuoteMarketing people are using such a wording to say 10GS/s with single channel only. They would not write "up to" in case of 4x10GS/s, they would write "10GS/s real-time per channel"

author: EmonaSATom
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2018, 05:21:22 am
content: Hi Guys,Tom here from Emona Instruments in South AustraliaYou may be aware that we are the Australian and New Zealand distributor for Rigol with head office in Sydney.We are currently working on pricing and information for the new 7000 series, should be on our website soon.EDIT 20-06-18: pricing is herehttp://www.emona.com.au/ds7000/

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2018, 11:09:37 am
content: here is the exact spec:10 GSa/s (single-channel), 5 GSa/s (dual-channel), 2.5 GSa/s (four-channel)memory analog channels:- standard100 Mpts (single-channel), 50 Mpts (dual-channel), 25 Mpts (four-channel)- with option 250Mpts250 Mpts (single-channel), 125 Mpts (dual-channel), 50 Mpts (four-channel)- with option 500Mpts500 Mpts (single-channel), 250 Mpts (dual-channel), 125 Mpts (four-channel)memory digital channels 62.5MptsEuropean public launch date (with prices) June the 12thAll models with pricing, data sheet, user manuale etc. will be active on June the 12th at 00.01More info, just ask, bye

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2018, 04:27:39 pm
content: The automatic measurements have a bloody small font again as in DS2000. That is bad.

author: Gallymimus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 05:44:18 pm
content: Quote from: nrxnrx on June 05, 2018, 10:33:56 amWow those prices are MUCH higher than the ones listed on Rigol's own website:DS7014 100 MHz 4 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $2,699DS7024 200 MHz 4 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $3,699DS7034 350 MHz 4 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $6,999DS7054 500 MHz 4 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $9,999MSO7014 100 MHz 4 16 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $3,999MSO7024 200 MHz 4 16 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $4,999MSO7034 350 MHz 4 16 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $8,299MSO7054 500 MHz 4 16 NA 500 Mpts 600,000 wfms/s $11,299

author: nrxnrx
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 06:55:33 pm
content: Thanks! I updated my post to point to yours.

author: etl17
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 06:59:55 pm
content: I wonder if the 100MHz models can be hacked to become 500MHz. Since all models have the same sample rate, it's quite possible that they also have the same front end. However, I wonder if the 10Gs sample rate is enough to compete with the R&S 16bit DACs. What do you guys think?

author: extronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 07:09:28 pm
content: New info on Rigol's website, price, specs and some videoshttps://www.rigol.eu/products/digital-oscilloscopes/7000/

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 07:24:37 pm
content: > Options> Bandwidth Upgrade> DS7000-BW1T5> 7000 Series Bandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 500 MHz

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2018, 09:30:33 pm
content: Wow, there is search and navigation.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:20:29 pm
content: The prices seem to be pretty much on par with the R&S RTM3000 if you go for a similar configuration. I don't think the 500Mpts memory depth option is included in the prices listed a few postings back.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:35:10 pm
content: Yea, I try not to be a snob but if the price between rigol and rtm3000 are similar I'd never consider the rigol. Unless reviews show it is actually a pretty good scope.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 07:06:10 pm
content: On the low end there's a pretty big difference: $2600 vs $4200. Also, the rigol has zone trigger and 10x the wfm/s -- but the R&S has 10bit.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 10:02:38 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 13, 2018, 05:35:10 pmHopefully Dave and/or Shahriar will get their hands on one soon, if it can at least keep up, maybe it will even drive the price of the segment down.

author: bozidarms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 01:03:53 pm
content: Rigol has one very useful function, namely Histogram!By R&S one can find Histogram first in RTA series (unreasonable costly).

author: RigolTechUSA
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 04:22:31 pm
content: Thanks for all the interest on the new scopes. We have been working hard on video content that describes all of the new features in the 7000 Series. We have put together a set of landing pages with that content as well as some videos showing head to head differences between the Rigol 7000 and some competitive scopes. I wanted to share this link for those looking for more information:https://www.rigolna.com/DS7000Now that the product is released we are happy to answer any questions.RIGOL USA Office:www.rigolna.cominfo@rigol.com877-474-4651

author: tequipment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 04:54:01 pm
content: Here is the link tohttps://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS7014/Digital-Oscilloscopes/andhttps://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/MSO7014/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/You can easily see the full series with prices.We think this scope will be a winner. We are offering 60 days return rights plus our eevblog discount on the units.Best Regards,Evan CirelliVice President and Co-FounderTEquipment.NET

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 05:35:45 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on June 13, 2018, 10:02:38 pmYea, it has some really interesting things going on. Decodes are ~2k(or 900 if you need 1) and mem is ~1.4k. It feels like it's in a weird place max BW being 500mhz but everything else comparable to the "standard" 3000 series scopes, including price. For me the LA specs are a little disappointing for the price.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 05:52:53 pm
content: Quote from: tequipment on June 15, 2018, 04:54:01 pmThen why do you have such a small amount in stock?I visit quite a few companies and so far I've only seen A-brand oscilloscopes in this price bracket. If Rigol wants to have any chance to make a name for themselves and compete then the firmware has to work 100% from day one. I just did a price comparison and the pricing on the DS7000 series is pretty much on par with similar instruments from A brands. There is very little room for justifying a make-do scope with partly working firmware in a professional environment where time equals money. I'm sure people will say I'm too negative but let's be real: Rigol doesn't have a very good track record and fixing firmware on their higher end models has taken long in the past. I'm looking forward to some in-depth tests which go deeper than twiddling some knobs to see what is what.

author: max-bit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 08:06:20 am
content: When reviewing on eevblog?Of course and teardown ....

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 09:21:56 am
content: An oscilloscope in that price level is a "long term investment" for most users. Imagine year 2025 and an 8bit oscope sitting on your workbench.. Also probably no beefy sells without several independent in-depth reviews with teardowns..PS: My bet the Rigol's bosses have started already to think on whether they do not miss a historical opportunity to become the clear winners by introducing the 70xx with 10bits instead of 8..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:17:03 pm
content: I took a quick look at one web shop and if we compare similarly equipped RTM3004 and DS7014 (base scope + bundle) RTM3004 is 6290€ (no VAT) and DS7014 is 3799€ (no VAT). In that config RTM will have AWG and ARINC 429 protocol and Rigol won't.If you compare similarly configured RTM3004 MSO and MSO7014, RTM is 7640€ (no VAT) and MSO7014 is 4799€ (no VAT). Rigol will have two channel AWG , and RTM will have ARINC 429 and spectrogram mode.So if Rigol will not be buggy, prices are quite better for similar capabilities.. And Rigol does have 600K Wfms/for those that care about that. It has 1Mpoint FFT, and histogram measurements.That is for 100MHz base model. As BW goes up, there is less difference though..It remains to be seen how DS/MSO7000 series looks in real life..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 02:20:46 pm
content: Quote from: imo on June 17, 2018, 09:21:56 amFor general purpose work, 8 bit is just fine.. For power analysis, I would go with 12 Bit or more anyways ......

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 04:42:50 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 17, 2018, 02:17:03 pmTrue but in the region up to 200MHz there are many cheaper alternatives.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2018, 05:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2018, 04:42:50 pmThat is true...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 08:17:18 am
content: Quote from: max-bit on June 17, 2018, 08:06:20 amI have not been contacted by Rigol

author: EmonaSATom
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 20, 2018, 01:03:51 am
content: Australian Pricing is here:http://www.emona.com.au/ds7000/DS-7000 SERIES (Inc. GST)DS-7014 100MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s $4,754.20DS-7024 200MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s $6,514.20DS-7034 350MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s $11,310.20DS-7054 500MHz, 4CH, 10GS/s $15,328.50Email: testinst@emona.com.au

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 09:43:46 am
content: Canadian pricing is here:https://www.rigolcanada.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/7000/Interestingly it's cheaper over here than in OzBut still expensive

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 09:46:39 am
content: We will get demo unit and stock units on June the 26th . as soon as possible we will release some videos . if you like to see anything special just reply here or send me a DM. thanks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 09:53:52 am
content: I presume they are software bandwidth upgradable?

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 09:57:07 am
content: Yes they are:Bandwidth Upgrade OptionBandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 200 MHzBandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 350 MHzBandwidth upgrades from 100 MHz to 500 MHzBandwidth upgrades from 200 MHz to 350 MHzBandwidth upgrades from 200 MHz to 500 MHzBandwidth upgrades from 350 MHz to 500 MHz

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 09:59:14 am
content: Interesting about the overload recovery time.Do they really mean 0.5 PERCENT the recovery time of other scopes?

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 10:56:24 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 15, 2018, 05:52:53 pmThis.Some years ago, we bought Rigol's flagship: the DS6104, including most options (uart, spi, i2c decoding etc.).When we started to use the remote LAN connection, we hit the following three bugs:bug no. 1: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in October 2015)When I run this software:https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/and select LAN connection,I get randomly the response: "command error". This blocks the connection for 5 seconds and a timeout occurs.This happens randomly, and when it happens, it does after sending different commands.So, it's not related to one and the same command. Sometimes the program runs fine for minutes.bug no. 2: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in Januari 2017)Apply a squarewave of 1KHz to channel 1.Set triggering to normal, rising edge.Set the memory depth to 1.4Mpts.Acquire the signal, then set the scope to STOP mode.Download the waveform in RAW mode, format BYTE.When you observe the downloaded waveform, the triggerpoint isshifted about 460 nanoSec.bug no. 3: (reported at, and confirmed by, Rigol in December 2016)When setting the treshold for the UART serial decoding,it seems to work fine.But when asking for the threshold setting, the value is always 10% ofthe actual value.This bug happens when the probe attenuation is set to 10:1.These bugs are still unresolved and make it impossible for us to use the remote connection.We have learned our lesson and we willneverbuy Rigol stuff anymore for our business.

author: Porenbeton
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 23, 2018, 11:33:39 pm
content: I think there are quite a few things interresting about this scope.It finally has some functions now performed in hardware instead of in software unlike all the other scopes from Rigol.Decoding beeing probably the most useful out of them. The decode function in all rigol oscilloscopes at least up to the 4000 (i am not sure about ds6000) series is in my opinion barely usable.It just slows down too much and has a lot of actual glitches in the data because the software has problems to correctly decode the on screen waveform data.Hopefully the implementation in hardware is executed good enought, under this circumstance this would be a pretty big selling point for most people i think.Also if i understood their marketing correctly math functions are also now completly in hardware. This would negate the huge loss of responsiveness from the ui while using math.Beeing able to display 4 fuctions at the same time is also nice to have. But there is one big downside to this: I could not find anything related to custom math functions in the datasheet norecould i see it in their marketing videos showing off the math functions. So I assume it is not implemented in this model or it is missing in the documentation and i overlooked something in the video.Would be something interesting to look up if anyone here gets their hands on this. This function was quite useful from time to time, so it would be a bit dissapointing if it really was missing.Also a quote from the store of one of Rigols distributors Batronix for the memory upgrade for the DS7000 series:"[...] Simple activation via software code (memory is already build-in). Please specify the serial number of your oscilloscope, [...]."So its safe to assume that all options are again activated with codes generated from the serial number if the description on the distributors store is correct.If this scope is both option and bandwidth hackable then 2200€ without tax is really a unbeatable price for a 4 channel 500mhz scope with such high amount of sample memory andreally high update rate + hardware decode.But I wonder how responsive the touchscreen and the overall UI will be.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 11:03:10 am
content: Improving the speed of the fancy math and the analyses functions (including the UI responses) of an oscope is great, the only issue I see is the rule which still works in our today's digital world:QuoteWith 8bit input you get 8bit output. Any advanced math co-processor or any fastest ASIC cannot change that..

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 02:34:23 pm
content: Quote from: imo on June 24, 2018, 11:03:10 amDepending on the particular way the 8-bit input is produced (needs to have suitable level of uncorrelated noise), the desired math done, and the bandwidth needed, yes, they can produce more bits from less input bits. Basically the samples/bandwidth/time -to- more (effective) bits -tradeoff. The first example that comes to my mind is the FFT done while ERES is enabled, giving (slightly) lower noise on the produced FFT, etc.

author: modernjack3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 07:21:49 pm
content: Damn.. this new scope is really messing with my head.I wanted to get a DS4024E with 200MHz BW but now the DS7014 seems just so attractive.Sadly I could only afford that scope with 100MHz BW and now I am struggling really hard.The fastest Signal I would be going to measure would be a 50MHz Clock signal - do you guys think it is worth it to still go for the DS4024Efor the higher BW or should I get a DS7014 with 100MHz BW?I hope I asked this question at the right place...sorry if I did not.Greetings, Jack

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 07:52:55 pm
content: Quote from: modernjack3 on June 24, 2018, 07:21:49 pmI have a ds4k scope and while it has served me very well I think it would be a big call to buy one now. It is quite dated and while it can grab data fast any of the new scopes beat it on the processing of that data.I would go with the new guy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 07:56:47 pm
content: Quote from: modernjack3 on June 24, 2018, 07:21:49 pmFor a 50MHz clock signal you'll need at least 200MHz to see some harmonics an have a clue about what the square wave looks like. 250 to 300MHz is even better. Still when spending this kind of money it is wise to look at other brands or even used. Read Karel's post carefully.

author: modernjack3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 08:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 07:56:47 pmThat is true but I thought about maybe renting (or borrowing) a scope with such a BW just for this one signal in the worst case or ( the case that I hope for) -Maybe the DS7k series will also have some hardware hacks to push up the BW limit.If not so then maybe I can afford a Software BW upgrade some time in the future...The new ASIC (not to mention the touchscreen) is just so tempting :/Greetings, Jack

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 08:16:36 pm
content: If you really want a nice touch screen and ASICs then buy an R&S RTB2000 or RTM3000 series. At least these scopes work and have 10 bit ADCs. AFAIK this is Rigol's first ASIC based scope and it may have some issues. I wouldn't want to be an early adopter for new technology which can't be fixed by a software update.

author: modernjack3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 08:47:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:16:36 pmYou definitely have a strong point in that regard!But I do not really need the 10 bit resolution and when it comes to the rest then the Rigol - at least on paper as far as I can see- is the clear winner when it comes to price and performance or am I missing out on something important that I can't see?Greetings, Jack

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pm
content: Quote from: modernjack3 on June 24, 2018, 08:47:37 pmYes. There are many pieces of test equipment which look great on paper but don't work in real life. I really see what you mean and I went down the same rabbit hole already. A couple of years ago I spend over 2000 euro on a newly introduced oscilloscope which didn't work and I was foolish enough to believe the manufacturer (in this case Siglent) would fix the firmware soon. I ended up throwing it in the trash (=money wasted) and bought a different oscilloscope because I needed an oscilloscope which works. Again: read the posting from Karel. His experience is very similar to mine. If you want a piece of equipment which works then stay clear from Rigol and Siglent. They don't test their firmware at all. Sure the A brands slip up too but A) too a far lesser extend and B) they make things right even if it means taking the hardware back and fixing it.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 12:57:15 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pmYou forgot to add C) charge you 2-3 times what "B" brands do for the same (or less) features content.You get what you pay for.

author: lukier
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 09:17:14 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 24, 2018, 08:55:20 pmThis is quite true, but I get the impression that things are changing. I must say I was fairly impressed with Siglent's responsivness and quick firmware fix releases for SDS1104X-E (see the big thread).On the other hand you have stuff like Keysight's E36300A PSUs, bad standby & fan control design, long wait for firmware update and potential recall as AFAIR CH1 overshoot is still there. Or R&S having if I remember correctly fixed firmware release cycle (every quarter?) because dunno "we use SCRUM so f,.. you".Things are not as they used to be.Of course, overall, brand name stuff is still better, less bugs, better commercial support, repair service, providing spare parts for a long time after release and so on, but yet they charge for all that in much higher product prices (except the price of this Rigol scope maybe).

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 09:51:06 am
content: Quote from: lukier on June 25, 2018, 09:17:14 amI am sure that the part about not testing their firmware is not true. All companies test their hardware, firmware and software before release. However they all don't have the same capacity for testing and so don't find and fix all issues prior to release. Different companies also will have different tolerances for what they will release as well. E.g. Keysight might delay a release due to a spelling mistake in the UI, but maybe Siglent would go ahead and fix it later.The problem is that it is impossible to test every combination of every feature. You would be there for multiple lifetimes. Nobody can do complete testing, but some companies can do better than others. For example if a company invests in an automated test framework, and then invests in creating tests for that framework for every new feature, and then invests in maintaining those tests as the firmware changes, then they have an improved testing capability vs someone who did not invest.Also, Keysight/R&S/Brand A have many years of experience of testing complex devices. They also have many experienced people who are able to use their intuition and discover bugs first before the public ever see them. Their ability to pull this off will obviously diminish as they lose these people through natural attrition, cutbacks etc and as the complexity of the instruments increases. They will need to adapt and no doubt they are doing so as this is pretty obvious stuff.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 10:30:44 am
content: Quote from: hendorog on June 25, 2018, 09:51:06 amThe difference is that with Rigol (and Siglent) very basic functions are not working properly and new versions even break existing functionality every now and then. There is no other explaination for this other than that the testing is not performed in a structured way (= using a test plan and a software tester / software testing department) which equals to not testing at all.

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2018, 05:48:22 pm
content: I must agree with this point. I recently got the SDS1204X-E + MSO option. The MSO is a new "instrument", but I went for this combination as it seemed to tick all the boxes for my needs at a low price. Plus, its "just" a few extra digital channels for a scope that is already used by forum members for a while, right? Unfortunately, the MSO is very problematic, and practically useless, too many bugs for me to live with. Whats more, I have no idea when it'll be fixed (if at all), and if so what the fix will "cost" in other parameters of the scope.Personally, I will think twice the next time before buying an instrument that doesn't have a proven track record.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 03:25:09 am
content: I have the good old Rigol DS1054Z and hacked it to 100Mhz with full features. Probably just one of thousands who have done this and found the scope to be good value because of its hackability. The scope has gone thru many firmware revisions with the latest being early this year. Pretty well sorted but Rigol still spell Pulses as Pluses, not exactly an issue but still no fix for a simple spelling error.The DS7000 appeals to me and probably lots of others like me that bought the DS1054Z, providing its hackable. If its hackable I would upgrade even though my 100Mhz scope meets my needs. What I'm attempting to say is if I am to upgrade to another 8 bit scope then it must represent great value for money otherwise I stay with what I have.I'm hoping Rigol will turn a blind eye to a hackable upgrade path just like it did with the DS1054Z. If this is possible then this scope will get my money and I'll upgrade. Look forward to seeing what pans out with this new scope from Rigol!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 07:53:03 am
content: DS7000 is potentially very powerful.A brands are only good because they tend to keep a platform for very long time. R&S new series is very buggy. Even with basic functions. No better than Siglent in my eye.But since R&S is an company that plans to sell these scopes for 6-7 years or even more, they will eventually fix all of it. And then, if you buy it then it will be rock solid.Most important concept here is to keep updating existing, already sold hardware. And not to churn out new scope every 2 years and never fix old ones.Until now Rigol (for instance) was playing catch up game. Trying to make scopes that will be good enough to compete with big boys. Making new platform every year or two. Learning and developing.Using existing A/D converters, FPGA etc. Trying different combinations to make it work and yet to cheap to produce. Changing things all the time. Experimenting. Giving up on the stuff that didn't work..Like we all do.Meanwhile, Keysight (for instance) kept on producing same old Megazoom architecture (that's 10 years old) , building on 10 years old code base. It made sense for them NOT to change anything major.And since they knew they were in it for a long run, they made hardware with room to grow some and kept developing and debugging software.Don't be naive. It wasn't so they can give more to old customers they already gave them money.It is because they have to keep producing same old scope but make it look relevant and fresh.But not being idiots, in today's brave world of field upgrades, they let you download new versions. You like them for it. And it makes life easier for them, because they don't have to support bugs on 27 sub-revisions of software since it was released. Win- win.And now, Rigol has a chipset. It will make sense for them to play the sam game. Keep the platform. Milk it a bit. Develop few more scopes with it. Debug it and make it modular so they don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time... And build up reputation, so they can also charge a bit better prices...In 70s Honda was a cheap, mini hatchback crap that sold only because it was cheap. Chinese are just following Japanese method. How successful are they going to be, I don't know. But by judging what they did so far, we should not underestimate them.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2018, 08:08:26 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 26, 2018, 07:53:03 amBut Rigol have not released new oscilloscopes every year or two.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2018, 01:04:31 am
content: They could've at least made it black or gold or something.

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2018, 06:04:03 am
content: the black one will come in the future, see as example the Rigol RSA5000 and RSA3000

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2018, 11:22:57 pm
content: I'm looking forward to reading/watching some independent reviews on this new scope.Dave when are you getting hold of one to tear down and review?Without serious and in depth reviews we dont know if the new DS-7000 series is buggy or up to spec!No one wants to be an early adopter of a brand new product featuring its own custom asic and feature set, without seeing some serious independent testing.Come on Rigol get some of these units out for testing in the wild!

author: maxpayne
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 04:05:15 am
content: Got a mail this morning from Rigol showing comparison with Keysight 3000T and Tektronix MDO3000...https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-006b/t/page/fm/0?sid=TV2:XzlBJUIBo&sid=TV2:wMsyMtJJp

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 06:47:24 am
content: The problem is that they are comparing Rigol pricing vs. list prices of competitors. I doubt Rigol actually thinks companies are paying the list price when buying a scope from one of the A brands. If they are counting on the list price difference to sell them, they are in for a very bad surprise.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 10:31:44 am
content: Quote from: maxpayne on July 03, 2018, 04:05:15 amWhy is R&S' RTM3000 missing from this comparison? Why only compare with older oscilloscopes which have been on the market for several years?

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 10:44:19 am
content: Choosing the right brand/model is like deciding what to vote during the elections.Don't look at politicians' programs and campaigns. Instead, look at how they performed in the past.In general, people tend to think that the next time they will perform better...

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 09:57:03 pm
content: Rigol have a niche in the value area for test instruments when compared to similar others, they offer performance for price, (bang for buck).If they step up in the feature set and start competing with the A brands the only way they can get a foothold is by having lower, (much lower) purchase price. If these DSOs offer entry point hacking to higher BW, etc, they will be a runaway success, but for $11,000 other established options present themselves.The Chinese make the Great Wall vehicle range and can be viewed as an analogue for Rigol, great value vehicles, (very low prices) but never considered when up against a similarly priced A brand vehicle.IMO if Rigol want to compete with the established big boys in test measurement then their prices and features must represent value for money. Paying to enable every option/feature on the DS-7000s is pushing the proverbial up hill. The features/options should come enabled and only pay for enabling BW upgrades. Making the Protocol Analysis options for the scopes free would be a step in the right direction. This would make them a more attractive alternative to be considered.I would buy one if they represented real value, (low price, many features) otherwise other A brands would get my money!

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 10:52:32 pm
content: Well, DS7000 looks quite good on paper. But the front panel is confusing. It has 100Mpoints per channel. It might be slow at this memory setting.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 05:07:51 am
content: It has anywhere between 25 and 500Mpts per channel depending on what options you have and how many channels you have enabled.At €2600 (incl VAT) for the base model it looks like a nice contender if/when it's found to be hackable.IMHO the prices for the options are ridiculous, i mean €900 each for the decoder option (yes there's a bundle at €1900) and €1350 to enable the full memory - on a scope costing €2600...come on.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 07:24:12 am
content: Quote from: H.O on July 04, 2018, 05:07:51 amHaving you looked at the cost of options for what they compared their scope to? This isn't a replacement 1054Z.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 07:58:33 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 04, 2018, 07:24:12 amThat would actually be a really nice addition to the whole measurement market portfolio: Something like a "DS1504X" or how it would be designated: An instrument the compact size and low weight of the DS1054Z but equipped with the new ASIC, a high resolution touch screen and the grunt of the 7000 model. Don't mind shared controls on a compact scope. I guess if Rigol would offer that (at a resonable price, of course), they would sell quite a few...Cheers

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 08:18:18 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 04, 2018, 07:24:12 amSort of and they appear to be equally ridiculous.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 08:25:35 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 04, 2018, 07:24:12 amI understand what you are saying that its not a 1054Z replacement and compared to A brands its price is competitive.The thing is that its new and untested, and has not been independently assessed by any qualified 3rd party yet. New ASIC feature set and specs remain simply advertising blurb until tested live in the lab.Rigol are good cheap test instruments that generally if buggy when released get fixed, but the DS-7000 as I said before does not tempt me. Cheap to get into then expensive to option up. Rigol need to add value for the prospective customer to consider this scope over others.To make this value brand scope sell then Rigol will need to sharpen their pencil and add real value for the user. IMO Rigol need to offer all protocol decoder options free on all the DS-7000 models. The cheapest 100MHz BW model as well as having the decoder options free, should also start at 200MHz and drop the 100MHz model option altogether.Rigol need to understand that their market share comes from the value for money sector of test equipment. When spending $11000 on a value brand like Rigol DS-7000 the other 'A' brand DSOs will win me and my money.I would love to buy a feature rich DSO like the DS-7000 but Rigol need to be more realistic in their pricing. Option enabling on the scope is value adding for Rigol only, (increased profit) and not the customer who can clearly see hardware is already in place.It would take a massive pricing rethink by Rigol to tempt me to buy their new scope. I would love to upgrade to the new Rigol instrument, problem is its priced like a Porsche and in reality its brand is the analogue of a Great Wall pickup.When are we going to see independent reviews on this new Rigol scope?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 03:04:57 pm
content: When is Dave Jones going to review the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series?In this review I would like to see an extensive real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.The test should test the speed when using full memory depth, and should verify if the protocol decoding is really done in hardware.One should also make a long memory capture, and search in the long memory capture to verify how easy it is to search within a long trace.Maybe use an actual PCB board of a commercial product, where I2C, SPI, CAN signals are present, and perform a real world protocol decoder test and Logic Analyzer test.Perform a real world troubleshooting session, to put the product to a real world test!This video would have a dual function: verify how good the MSO version of the new Rigol 7000 series is, and at the same time educate about troubleshooting techniques using powerful protocol decoder and LA tools.Of course the test should also verify how good the new analog front-end is (bandwidth, trigger implementation, jitter, noise level).Rumours in the past indicated that Rigol engineers have no clue on how to properly implement the trigger circuitry, and that there actually is a fundamental flaw in the design.Maybe the trigger implementation can be verified in the new Rigol 7000 series.Another nice test would be to check if Rigol has a similar feature as Siglent to generate Bode diagrams on the oscilloscope, where the oscilloscope controls an external signal generator.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 05:02:57 pm
content: Seconded. Rigol's 4000 series had a bug where serial decoding didn't work in segmented memory mode until years after release, it would be good to know if there were any similar bugs in the 7000.The 4000s also have annoying trigger UX, but AFAIK that's a result of the firmware and software, not the hardware. The hardware trigger works OK -- no sub-sample spacing but otherwise fine, and no clock jitter on trig out, so it's a real trigger rather than a GPIO abomination. The jankiness comes from the fact that its time offset isn't calibrated out in the FPGA so the software attempts a secondary digital trigger to nudge the trigger crossing a few ns to the specified trigger location. This works fine when the trigger is on-screen and not at all when it isn't. Also, for some reason, the software trigger isn't applied while scrolling, so on low ns/div the signal appears to hop between the uncalibrated hardware trigger and exact software trigger, which is frustrating. You can work around this problem by manually entering a timebase offset to calibrate out the trigger delay, but ugh.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 10:36:45 pm
content: Dave! if your reading this?Have Rigol made this new scope series available for test and tear down anytime soon with you?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2018, 08:45:29 am
content: Yes, we are all waiting for this detailed review as per above description!

author: hmlittle59
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2018, 03:24:42 pm
content: Hello All,My 2 cents and recent observation.I have a early Rigol DS2102, use only as needed for the pass 5+ years. Software rarely updated and when I did Rigol Rep. was shocked at the version I had. Works great. Still has over 1000 min. of trial code active.Anyway...Was looking to upgrade to the Rigol MSO4014 from TEquip. and the price was $ 3500.00 plus 2 Free Bundles of upgrades (Bandwidth and Trigger Code).Well that price break and the Bandwidth are gone after the 7000 came out.Snooze you loose. Now $3999.Now I will also wait on Dave's REVIEW.I may just go back and just get the upgrades for my DS2102 only once they run out and save a dollar or 2.Like I said...My 2cents and observation.Howard

author: annerajb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 18, 2018, 02:59:23 am
content: Concur. Just found the DS7000 would like a few reviews from knowledgeable third parties.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2018, 10:49:55 pm
content: I keep Googling looking for DS7000 reviews from 3rd parties but find only Rigol and distributors posting the videos and specs.You would think Rigol would have had this out to Dave and others to post reviews/teardowns to maximise their marketing for a new premium product they bill as being the match and better value than the current 'A' brand offerings.Makes me wonder why we are not yet seeing reviews from the likes of EEVBlog etc?

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 09:15:19 am
content: Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but one slightly disappointing thing, maybe, is that the 10 GSa/s is, erm, muxed over all 4 channels. Whereas on other 4ch scopes, I think, it's just muxed across AB and CD.So while it's 10GSa/s when using one channel, you can't do the trick of using CH1 and CH3 to still get the full sample rate.e.g. on a ds1054z with 1GSa/s, you could use CH1 and CH3 and it won't split the sampling rate in half.Sampling 4 channels on a DS1054z would give 500MSa/s per channel, and the DS7000 would give 2.5GSa/s.I suppose it's still a minimum of 5x greater.Using 1 channel it's 10x greater, any more than 1 channel, it's never more than 5x greater.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 09:21:36 am
content: Quote from: carl0s on July 20, 2018, 09:15:19 amnot at all. 1054z has a single ADC.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 10:12:20 am
content: Quote from: carl0s on July 20, 2018, 09:15:19 amThey all do that. At least you can have on ch with 10GS. All other have with 2x5GS shared over 4 channel(2.5 GS/ch), or 4x2.5 GS, or 1x5GS over 4ch (1.25 GS/ch)....You have to go to a class higher scopes to have higher sample rates...5x than analog bandwidth of input channel is absolutely perfect.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 03:29:46 pm
content: Ah fair enough. Maybe it's the sample memory then? I can't remember what it was, but something is split per bank of A/B and C/D.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 04:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 20, 2018, 10:12:20 amHmm I guess I've got confused somewhere along the way, but the Siglent 4ch scopes have 2x ADC and 2x storage over the 2ch scopes. I just watched Dave's teardown of the DS1054z again and I see all 4 channels go into the same ADC.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 07:34:32 pm
content: They have dual 1Gs/sec that is 500MS/sec per ch... I think 10GS/sec divided by 4 is still 2,5GS/sec per channel..And it has 100/250/500 Msamples memory divided by 4. Keysight DSOX3000T has 4Msamples...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 08:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: carl0s on July 20, 2018, 04:06:01 pmYes, that's the point of difference and the reason for the higher price......2 ADC's.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 10:29:57 pm
content: How does this look against the R & S with the capacitive touch screen and fluent interface? 3004 or whatever it is? I think bigger screen with less laggy interface and general fluency is what would draw me into buying the 100MHz version of this. and hackability of courseThe Rigol looks to be much better value with more memory. We just need to see if the interface is good. Even though I have no genuine need or use for it, I could see myself buying one of these just for the general tool-addiction satisfaction.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 06:04:08 pm
content: Has Rigol approached you already about this new DS/MSO 7000 series Dave?

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 10:06:00 pm
content: It would appear to me that Rigol has not made this new scope available in the field yet for 3rd party testing!Begs the question, why!!!!!!!I cant find an independent review anywhere on line. Its got me thinking the new scope may have some teething, (or worse) problems and they need time to arrange a fix?Why else would Rigol keep such a well spec'd meter featuring their new ASIC away from independent reviews. Marketing test instruments like this without reviews means loss of sales to other brands. I dont understand Rigol's delay in getting scopes out the door for review, maybe a Rigol representative would like to comment?

author: John South
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 03:06:36 am
content: Hi All - Just a heads up that we (Emona Instruments) are getting one of these in for Dave to review. It will be here pretty soon and I'm just contacting Dave now. For any Australian and New Zealand people interested we also have local demonstration units available - any interest in seeing one please PM me .

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 06:14:45 am
content: Quote from: John South on July 24, 2018, 03:06:36 amThats great news!I'm looking forward to finding out more about the Scope and no better way than a review from EEVBlog!

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 01:27:10 pm
content: The actual review should be detailed and not be fluffy!Quote from: pascal_sweden on July 04, 2018, 03:04:57 pm

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 06:25:12 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on July 24, 2018, 01:27:10 pmSuch a thourough review takes a lot of time (I've been down that road before a couple of times) and doesn't lend itself well for video. I think Dave will take it apart and do a quick tour on how it works in general (and that's probably it). The teardown will be kinda interesting but not something you'd use for a purchase decission.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 07:49:27 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 24, 2018, 06:25:12 pmEmona Instruments clearly state they will be making the DS7000 available to Dave for a review. There is a clear expectation that Dave will review the product and I'm sure he will also do a teardown while he is at it!

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 01:18:05 pm
content: Such a great and marvelous piece of equipment deserves a great and marvelous review!

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 04:54:59 pm
content: Since Dave did the quick teardown of the Siglent 1104X-E 8 months ago he has not seriously revisited this scope. I know when he did the Rigol 1054Z it was a market changing release and he did a couple (2 plus a dedicated summary) indepth reviews of it. Since I am in the market for a low budget 4 channel scope I am disappointed at not seeing a more serious follow up of the Siglent. I know Dave is more of a hardware guy than software, and most of the changes to the Siglent have been soft/firmware. I am quite interested in seeing how he treats this Rigol 7000D, in what seems a fairly substantial release from them. Will he give it the indepth 2-3 video attention he gave the 1054Z? Is he getting away from dissecting equipment that deeply? I know there have been a good number of other YouTube reviews of the Siglent 1104, but Dave has been kind of the standard I use to judge the others by. Even though this scope is way out of my market, it's design and components may trickle down to the hobby level I am at.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 03:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 25, 2018, 04:54:59 pmAs for videos I'd expect a teardown video and nothing more. He barely touched the R&S scopes other than for demonstrating problems.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 03:58:50 pm
content: What interests me most about the DS7000 is how many CPU horsepower it has under the hood to process signals. This is where oscilloscopes (cheap and expensive) usually fall flat on their face with very few exceptions. The DS7000 is likely to be a bugfest for at least the first few years but with a decent amount of CPU power there is at least some potential.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 08:04:59 pm
content: Maybe, but even in Rigol's demo videos the FFT is a dog.

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 12:42:33 am
content: Looks like Tek, Keysight and others might have a bit of catching up to do. The days of charging megabucks for a mid level scope might be over now that the chinese have moved into this segment. But then doesn't the Tek MDO3000 come bundled with a spectrum analyser ?cheers

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 01:44:22 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 27, 2018, 08:04:59 pmWhich demo is that? The one I saw made it look pretty impressive at first glance, but was static so hard to really conclude anything.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 01:50:40 am
content: You can judge here:https://youtu.be/zrfG9wtQjh0?t=98The big color-graded FM demo was static for a reason

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 03:09:09 am
content: FYI, I should be getting one early this week. I believe it's the 500MHz model, but I assume the hardware is the same. I haven't looked into details.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 04:19:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 28, 2018, 03:09:09 amI'm looking forward to your review!You must be the first outside of Rigol and its Distributors to get your hands on one!Will it be a hackable upgrade and does it perform, can't wait to watch the video.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 04:49:39 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 28, 2018, 01:50:40 amYou mean the slow refresh? But isnt that just because its being triggered externally by the spec an?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 05:18:29 am
content: I agree with nctnico.. Don't see a point. If you're spending $3K+ on a scope chances are you're not a hobbyist. And as such you should get a proper scope from one of the big boys.Rigol's UI alone makes me want to pull my hair out. No way would I put up with it if money wasn't tight, which if you're getting one of these 7K ones, it isn't. Not to mention all the bugs.

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 06:27:34 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on July 28, 2018, 05:18:29 amThe price of the lowest end model is a mere $400 more than the list price of the, rather old now, DS4014. And it has much better specs.Quite a few of us have those DS4k scopes.It might turn out to be rubbish, will be interested to see what Dave thinks. But right now it looks pretty good.And with a bit of luck the big boys will be forced to release something decent to compete, like last time. It's a win win for hobbyists.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 07:43:20 am
content: I agree, looking like the UI is responsive throughout the video - only that it is waiting for a trigger event to occur.Quote from: hendorog on July 28, 2018, 04:49:39 am

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 07:59:59 am
content: Quote from: snoopy on July 28, 2018, 12:42:33 amThe devil is in the details. I went down this road before thinking a 'cheaper' Chinese scope would perform equally well based on specs on paper but it didn't and I ended up wasting a few k euro.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 10:21:43 am
content: Quote from: timgiles on July 28, 2018, 07:43:20 amAnd also, that is on a 125 Megasamples... Not 32kS, not 4MS.. So that looks interesting.It seems a very promising hardware. It will drill down to bugs. If it won't be buggy then a good scope.As far as U/I goes, that's personal preference..From what I could see browsing through the manual, it has many good things.The problems I see:One thing I don't like is that in manual math seems very rudimentary. The way it is described in manual it doesn't have advanced mode, meaning arbitrary math. That means math, as described, is on the level of ds100Z not ds4000. That's not good.Math source can be only channel and ref. No math to math piping. R&S RTM3000 does it right.Because of 2. you cannot perform FFT on math. That would be awesome. Picoscope, R&S RTM3000, Tek MDO3000/4000 and others can do it...On all list/table based U/I elements, use of screen estate is inefficient. Lots of small windows in the middle of the screen,overlapping over other important data, no docking... R&S is doing it right, Lecroy too. Keysight is kinda OK.I'm sure if I played with it for some time I would find more things that are suboptimal for a scope that wants to be midrange..

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 12:52:35 pm
content: Quote from: timgiles on July 28, 2018, 07:43:20 amI'm looking at the considerable delay between the trace appearing and the FFT updating. It's a good fraction of a second.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 02:40:34 pm
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 28, 2018, 12:52:35 pmIt says 125 Mega samples.... so it's probably not a 32k FFT..

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 03:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 28, 2018, 10:21:43 amand those god damn button shapes. I can't un-see it now on my DS1054Z. There's no logic to it at all. I think I have been able to fathom out some of the sort of symmetry that has made them choose which corners to chop off which buttons, but it's utterly insane and no other equipment has weird randomly shaped buttons.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 03:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: carl0s on July 28, 2018, 03:00:39 pmYou won't even see them after it's been on your bench for two days.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 03:24:13 pm
content: Quote from: carl0s on July 28, 2018, 03:00:39 pmYeah, while i kinda agree with you it is not some fancy design, i couldn't care less. It's a tool...I personally think design (apart from ergonomics) is being given too much attention ().. I abhor form over function...I DO care about clear logical layout, that support hierarchy of instruments menus and functions...

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 08:30:06 am
content: This scope has performance in spades. The established brands should be worried. I recall that it was going to be released at last years Electronex show in Melb but was held back. Looks like they spent a year ironing out the bugs before they were going to make it public. From the videos and comparison to the TEK MDO3000 it looks quite impressive.cheers

author: hendorog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 08:43:55 am
content: Quote from: jjoonathan on July 28, 2018, 12:52:35 pmHmm, yes there is something going on there.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 08:57:59 am
content: Quote from: imo on June 24, 2018, 11:03:10 amAny band filtering, even decimation using an elementary boxcar filter, will enhance precision.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 09:31:34 am
content: Quote from: bson on July 30, 2018, 08:57:59 amNot at all. You may get more resolution but only if there is enough noise AND the ADCs are linear (which they aren't) otherwise you'll see a fantasy signal.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 06:40:04 pm
content: I am looking formward to the review.https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1024170698275618817It is already online.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2018, 12:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 30, 2018, 09:31:34 amThere are some basic laws of physics which, as of today and in this Universe, still apply. You get samples with 8bits of amplitude "V", and, you get them the time "T" apart. Creating any other better values out of these 2 is just the "fantasy", correct.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2018, 03:02:56 pm
content: Quote from: imo on August 05, 2018, 12:23:27 pmE... No.(don't attack me for lack of mathematical rigor here... it is deliberate)If you do have A/D converter that is 8 bits for example, and very linear and monotonic (it has accurate step). And you have signal that is right between two steps, what you get on the output?Signal will have a certain amount of noise in it, and if it is random noise, you will get random rounding to lower and upper value on output of A/D converter. In a 100 samples, average of those 100 samples would be pretty much exactly in between bits. If signal was a little lower, you would get more flicking to low value and less on high value.In a way it would look like a PWM modulation between two bits, and average of several measurements would converge to a true value, to an accuracy higher that A/D has.Sometimes noise is deliberately introduced, that's called dithering.It is valid technique, but has limitations.EDIT: Sorry I pressed something and it got posted before I was finished.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2018, 03:11:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 05, 2018, 03:02:56 pmFirst of all the noise will need to have a higher amplitude than 1 LSB, secondly that noise would need to have a perfect Gaussian distribution. In reality 8 bit ADCs are made to have 8 bits. Any extra linearity is just a waste of money & effort because that is not the goal (IF it is even possible to get the extra linearity).

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 10:48:24 am
content: It could have been a nice order configuration option from Rigol that the user can select a Matte display or Glossy display upon ordering the oscilloscope.Some people prefer Glossy, while other people hate it. In fact I personally prefer Matte display so much better, as the reflections on a Glossy display can make the oscilloscope display useless in some lab environments.Or if it is too hard to implement a configuration option, why not just stick with a Matte display which works for most people?What do other people on this forum think about this? Why would one like to have a Glossy display in the first place? Is there any advantage at all, or is it really only a disadvantage as such?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 11:00:21 am
content: Glossy screens are crap. There is no option where they are better that matte... Glossy is cheap multimedia crap that is so ubiquitous because tablets use them. Which would be so much better with matte screens too. And matte screens show less smudges from fingerprints ...I guess it needs additional cost to make matte screen and apply anti reflective coating.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 11:49:43 am
content: Maybe the anti-glare filters from 3M can help here:https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/All-3M-Products/Privacy-Screen-Protectors/Protection-Products/Anti-Glare/?N=5002385+8710873+8711017+8725355+8725357+3294857497&rt=r3

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 12:08:13 pm
content: Absolutely they could... And they should come already laminated on screen from factory....

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 12:27:57 pm
content: Anybody in touch here with senior management from Rigol? Please make them talk to 3M management for a good bulk rate on factory mounted anti-glare filters!

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 02:15:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 06, 2018, 11:00:21 amUh, my experience so far has been such that matte screens are a nightmare to clean from fingerprints (or any smudges) and the fingerprints show up just as well as on glossy (until you try to wipe them off; glossy gets clean in single wipe, matte just gets worse and needs microfiber and soap water and still needs half a minute of gentle wiping). All the way to the point of getting permanent marks on my anti-reflection coating of one of my displays, because it seems impossible to get whatever crap ended up in the microscopic pits... Also, most matte surfaces are, afaik, based on some form of plastic/non-hard material, which means that if you use it as a touchscreen, it will not be nice even matte for long (e.g. the most used spots on a matte-surfaced keyboards get glossy in less than couple years, and the spots that get hit by fingernails much faster).There must be a reason why majority of touchscreens are glossy, even on the most expensive high end devices, which could (and would) use more expensive choices. Best examples are some expensive laptop models which offered both touch and non-touch display versions; the touch ones were always glossy, non-touch ones had always anti-reflection.For non-touch displays I always choose some anti-reflection stuff, but touch ones... until they can figure out a type that can last years without getting wear marks and a method to clean them properly, glossy it is for me.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 02:45:02 pm
content: I have two touch screen scopes with glossy screens and it really is not an issue at all.

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 07:45:53 pm
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on August 04, 2018, 06:40:04 pmYes you're right Dave, that physical interface is a complete.. a complete failure.My DS1054Z is bad, but that has twice as much of everything. It extends into the square corners and face of the housing itself.FFS Rigol, soften the edges of everything. Make buttons square with slightly radiused corners, or just round, maybe with a convex front, orient all the text horizontally, and don't mix conflicting of fonts.If a button says "Back" on it, give it an arrow pointing to the left (back), not an arrow pointing up.I know it's not of primary importance, but it's pretty important. It's like decent spelling and grammar in business.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2018, 09:11:28 pm
content: Not true. With 8Bits resolution on paper, you will get quite less bits in reality, due to noise, nonlinearity and other issues.The ENOB value should be compared. The RIGOL does not even have this specified (prove me wrong). I guess that its about 6-7Bits across full bandwidth, not more.

author: Wolfgang
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 09:23:51 pm
content: I cant help the impression that the discussion here focusses a bit much on aspects of aesthetics and product exterior design and not so much on the features and specs of the unit. The same thing happened with other equipment like the RIGOL electronic load, e.g. There were serious flaws, but the majority of the review minutes spent was on design aspects if button should be labeled left to right or if backwards slanted characters should be allowed by law. This, IMHO, is the wrong priority for a technical forum (dont get me wrong - I dont like their design too much myself - but I dont think it is the most important thing to talk about in such overwhelming detail).So, I suggest to focus on features, compliance to specs, bugs, usability, reliability, ... first, and then all the aesthetic aspects. If handled the other way such a thread gets filled with gossip because everyone has a different taste.

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 09:35:24 pm
content: Quote from: Wolfgang on August 07, 2018, 09:23:51 pmI agree with your observation! The thing is though, all we have so far is Dave's first impression of the scope. He is about to perform the teardown and then the review later. So really this being the first 3rd party review on the internet we are all waiting on the details of this scope to be revealed.The real strengths and weaknesses are yet to to be revealed and I for one am curious if Rigol have made a step up with this new scope.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 06:01:30 am
content: Boot output:Code:U-Boot 2014.01.Rigolee.dirty (2018.03.27 - 15:01:25)I2C: readyMemory: ECC disabledDRAM: 448 MiBDPU: 20170604NAND: OnDie ECC supported, 1024 MiBzynq-In: serialzynq-Out: serialzynq-Err: serialNet: Gem.e000b000BootParam=0x0Hit any key to stop autoboot: 0NAND read: device 0 offset 0xd900000, size 0x3591fdþNAND read: device 0 offset 0xd900000, size 0x88 bytes read: OKNAND read: device 0 offset 0xd500000, size 0x12c0081228808 bytes read: OKLoading logo, x=310,y=247,width=404,height=89NAND read: device 0 offset 0xe100000, size 0xd8d69014210704 bytes read: OK## Loading kernel from FIT Image at 03000000 ...Using 'rootfs@1' configurationTrying 'kernel@1' kernel subimageDescription: Flamingo Linux kernelType: Kernel ImageCompression: uncompressedData Start: 0x030000f8Data Size: 3296960 Bytes = 3.1 MiBArchitecture: ARMOS: LinuxLoad Address: 0x00100000Entry Point: 0x00100000Hash algo: sha1Hash value: 3baba24f03cf5590e2c536eaa322b6dba603dabfVerifying Hash Integrity ... sha1+ OK## Loading ramdisk from FIT Image at 03000000 ...Using 'rootfs@1' configurationTrying 'ramdisk@1' ramdisk subimageDescription: Flamingo-Update-RamdiskType: RAMDisk ImageCompression: gzip compressedData Start: 0x033276fcData Size: 10901113 Bytes = 10.4 MiBArchitecture: ARMOS: LinuxLoad Address: unavailableEntry Point: unavailableHash algo: sha1Hash value: 55bdcbebccba845da403130143793ee0135e53a1Verifying Hash Integrity ... sha1+ OK## Loading fdt from FIT Image at 03000000 ...Using 'rootfs@1' configurationTrying 'fdt@1' fdt subimageDescription: Flattened Device Tree blobType: Flat Device TreeCompression: uncompressedData Start: 0x033250acData Size: 9613 Bytes = 9.4 KiBArchitecture: ARMHash algo: sha1Hash value: 4b3f2131fa7fc01da8110e0b15068def40b971c5Verifying Hash Integrity ... sha1+ OKBooting using the fdt blob at 0x33250acLoading Kernel Image ... OKLoading Ramdisk to 1b099000, end 1bafe679 ... OKLoading Device Tree to 1b093000, end 1b09858c ... OKStarting kernel ...Uncompressing Linux... done, booting the kernel.Booting Linux on physical CPU 0x0Linux version 3.12.0-xilinx (rigolee[member=167213]Jim) (gcc version 4.8.1 (Sourcery CodeBench Lite 2013.11-53) ) #35 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 22 17:58:17 CST 2018CPU: ARMv7 Processor  revision 0 (ARMv7), cr=18c5387dCPU: PIPT / VIPT nonaliasing data cache, VIPT aliasing instruction cacheMachine: Xilinx Zynq Platform, model: Xilinx ZynqMemory policy: Data cache writeallocPERCPU: Embedded 8 pages/cpu @c09ef000 s8384 r8192 d16192 u32768Built 1 zonelists in Zone order, mobility grouping on. Total pages: 113792Kernel command line: console=ttyPS0,115200 no_console_suspend, root=/dev/ram rwPID hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)Dentry cache hash table entries: 65536 (order: 6, 262144 bytes)Inode-cache hash table entries: 32768 (order: 5, 131072 bytes)Memory: 437424K/458752K available (4185K kernel code, 255K rwdata, 1716K rodata, 176K init, 178K bss, 21328K reserved, 0K highmem)Virtual kernel memory layout:vector : 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1000 ( 4 kB)fixmap : 0xfff00000 - 0xfffe0000 ( 896 kB)vmalloc : 0xdc800000 - 0xff000000 ( 552 MB)lowmem : 0xc0000000 - 0xdc000000 ( 448 MB)pkmap : 0xbfe00000 - 0xc0000000 ( 2 MB)modules : 0xbf000000 - 0xbfe00000 ( 14 MB).text : 0xc0008000 - 0xc05cb76c (5902 kB).init : 0xc05cc000 - 0xc05f80c0 ( 177 kB).data : 0xc05fa000 - 0xc0639d78 ( 256 kB).bss : 0xc0639d84 - 0xc0666924 ( 179 kB)Preemptible hierarchical RCU implementation.Dump stacks of tasks blocking RCU-preempt GP.RCU restricting CPUs from NR_CPUS=4 to nr_cpu_ids=2.NR_IRQS:16 nr_irqs:16 16ps7-slcr mapped to dc802000Zynq clock initsched_clock: 32 bits at 100 Hz, resolution 10000000ns, wraps every 4294967286msConsole: colour dummy device 80x30Calibrating delay loop... 1731.78 BogoMIPS (lpj=8658944)pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301Mount-cache hash table entries: 512CPU: Testing write buffer coherency: okCPU0: thread -1, cpu 0, socket 0, mpidr 80000000Setting up static identity map for 0xc03f7df0 - 0xc03f7e48L310 cache controller enabledl2x0: 8 ways, CACHE_ID 0x410000c8, AUX_CTRL 0x72360000, Cache size: 512 kBCPU1: Booted secondary processorCPU1: thread -1, cpu 1, socket 0, mpidr 80000001Brought up 2 CPUsSMP: Total of 2 processors activated.CPU: All CPU(s) started in SVC mode.devtmpfs: initializedVFP support v0.3: implementor 41 architecture 3 part 30 variant 9 rev 4regulator-dummy: no parametersNET: Registered protocol family 16DMA: preallocated 256 KiB pool for atomic coherent allocationsgpio->base_addr is:0xdc84e000The gpio irq num is:52zynq_gpio e000a000.ps7-gpio: gpio at 0xe000a000 mapped to 0xdc84e000hw-breakpoint: found 5 (+1 reserved) breakpoint and 1 watchpoint registers.hw-breakpoint: maximum watchpoint size is 4 bytes.zynq_ocm f800c000.ps7-ocmc: ZYNQ OCM pool: 256 KiB @ 0xdc880000bio: create slab <bio-0> at 0vgaarb: loadedSCSI subsystem initializedusbcore: registered new interface driver usbfsusbcore: registered new interface driver hubusbcore: registered new device driver usbpps_core: LinuxPPS API ver. 1 registeredpps_core: Software ver. 5.3.6 - Copyright 2005-2007 Rodolfo Giometti <giometti[member=183778]linux.it>PTP clock support registeredEDAC MC: Ver: 3.0.0NET: Registered protocol family 2TCP established hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)TCP bind hash table entries: 4096 (order: 3, 32768 bytes)TCP: Hash tables configured (established 4096 bind 4096)TCP: reno registeredUDP hash table entries: 256 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)UDP-Lite hash table entries: 256 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)NET: Registered protocol family 1RPC: Registered named UNIX socket transport module.RPC: Registered udp transport module.RPC: Registered tcp transport module.RPC: Registered tcp NFSv4.1 backchannel transport module.Trying to unpack rootfs image as initramfs...rootfs image is not initramfs (no cpio magic); looks like an initrdFreeing initrd memory: 10644K (db099000 - dbafe000)hw perfevents: enabled with ARMv7 Cortex-A9 PMU driver, 7 counters availableNTFS driver 2.1.30 [Flags: R/W].msgmni has been set to 875io scheduler noop registeredio scheduler deadline registeredio scheduler cfq registered (default)DPU:Map vRam to 0xdca00000DPU:Map iReg to 0xdcc00000DPU:Ver=0x20170604dma-pl330 f8003000.ps7-dma: unable to set the seg sizedma-pl330 f8003000.ps7-dma: Loaded driver for PL330 DMAC-2364208dma-pl330 f8003000.ps7-dma:DBUFF-128x8bytes Num_Chans-8 Num_Peri-4 Num_Events-16e0000000.serial: ttyPS0 at MMIO 0xe0000000 (irq = 59, base_baud = 6249999) is a xuartpsconsole  enabledxuartps e0001000.serial: failed to get alias id, errno -19e0001000.serial: ttyPS1 at MMIO 0xe0001000 (irq = 82, base_baud = 6249999) is a xuartpsbrd: module loadedloop: module loadedxspips e0006000.ps7-spi: master is unqueued, this is deprecatedxspips e0006000.ps7-spi: at 0xE0006000 mapped to 0xDC858000, irq=58libphy: XEMACPS mii bus: probedxemacps e000b000.ps7-ethernet: pdev->id -1, baseaddr 0xe000b000, irq 54ehci_hcd: USB 2.0 'Enhanced' Host Controller (EHCI) Driverehci-pci: EHCI PCI platform driverULPI transceiver vendor/product ID 0x0424/0x0009ULPI integrity check: passed.ULPI transceiver vendor/product ID 0x0424/0x0009ULPI integrity check: passed.xusbps-ehci xusbps-ehci.1: Xilinx PS USB EHCI Host Controllerxusbps-ehci xusbps-ehci.1: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1xusbps-ehci xusbps-ehci.1: irq 76, io mem 0x00000000xusbps-ehci xusbps-ehci.1: USB 2.0 started, EHCI 1.00hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub foundhub 1-0:1.0: 1 port detectedusbcore: registered new interface driver usb-storagemousedev: PS/2 mouse device common for all micei2c /dev entries driverrtc-rx8010sj 0-0032: Update timer was detectedrtc-rx8010sj 0-0032: rtc core: registered rtc-rx8010sj as rtc0xi2cps e0004000.ps7-i2c: 100 kHz mmio e0004000 irq 57zynq-edac f8006000.ps7-ddrc: ecc not enabledsdhci: Secure Digital Host Controller Interface driversdhci: Copyright(c) Pierre Ossmansdhci-pltfm: SDHCI platform and OF driver helperusbcore: registered new interface driver usbhidusbhid: USB HID core driverONFI param page 0 validONFI flash detectedNAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0x2c, Chip ID: 0xd3 (Micron MT29F8G08ADADAH4), 1024MiB, page size: 2048, OOB size: 64Bad block table found at page 524224, version 0x01Bad block table found at page 524160, version 0x0113 ofpart partitions found on MTD device pl353-nandCreating 13 MTD partitions on "pl353-nand":0x000000000000-0x000000040000 : "Env"0x000000100000-0x000004100000 : "DATA"0x000004100000-0x000004500000 : "Bmp"0x000004500000-0x000004900000 : "Bmp1"0x000004900000-0x000005100000 : "Bit1"0x000005100000-0x000007100000 : "Sys1"0x000007100000-0x00000d500000 : "App1"0x00000d500000-0x00000d900000 : "Bmp2"0x00000d900000-0x00000e100000 : "Bit2"0x00000e100000-0x000010100000 : "Sys2"0x000010100000-0x000016500000 : "App2"0x000016500000-0x00001a800000 : "Reserved"0x00001a800000-0x000040000000 : "User"TCP: cubic registeredNET: Registered protocol family 17Registering SWP/SWPB emulation handler+-----------------------------------------+|Touch driver |+-----------------------------------------+usb 1-1: new high-speed USB device number 2 using xusbps-ehcihub 1-1:1.0: USB hub foundhub 1-1:1.0: 4 ports detectedTouchscreen ProductID: 0x2543Touchscreen VersionID: 0x0102input: ssd2543 as /devices/amba.1/e0004000.ps7-i2c/i2c-0/0-0048/input/input0rtc-rx8010sj 0-0032: setting system clock to 2018-08-08 13:49:57 UTC (1533736197)RAMDISK: gzip image found at block 0VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) on device 1:0.devtmpfs: mountedFreeing unused kernel memory: 176K (c05cc000 - c05f8000)Starting rcS...++ Mounting filesystem++ Setting up mdev++ Starting ftp daemonrcS Complete[1;31m<root@rigol>[0mrpcbind: cannot create socket for udp6rpcbind: cannot create socket for tcp62018-08-08 13:50:10: (log.c.166) server started7 2048 16 2 "/dev/fb0"

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 06:12:19 am
content: Ok, it uses a dual core ARM CPU w/ 512MB of ram in a Xilinx Zynq FPGAQuoteSo the new "Asic(s)" is most probably about front-ends/ADCs/sample_buffers/DSP only..

author: thn788
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 06:40:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 08, 2018, 06:01:30 amApparently a Xilinx Zynq with Dual-Cortex-A9 and 512 KB L2-Cache, which seems to be running at 866 MHz. According tohttps://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds190-Zynq-7000-Overview.pdfthis might be a Zynq Z-7010, Z-7015, or Z-7020 (assuming Rigol doesn't use over- or underclocked CPUs).And is this an open, working Linux prompt without password protection?Quote from: EEVblog on August 08, 2018, 06:01:30 am

author: Andrew
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 09:48:28 am
content: Date Sheet page 22:"Note: 1mV/div and 2mV/div are a magnification of 4mV/div setting..."Where have we seen that before?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 10:55:14 am
content: Quote from: Andrew on August 08, 2018, 09:48:28 amOn Keysight DSOX3000T and 4000 series for starters......

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 03:10:42 pm
content: They really need to update their linux kernel, gcc and toolchain. Spectre and meltdown anyone. And the performance improvements they are missing....Come on Jim.....Linux version 3.12.0-xilinx (rigolee@Jim) (gcc version 4.8.1 (Sourcery CodeBench Lite 2013.11-53) ) #35 SMP PREEMPT Tue May 22 17:58:17 CST 2018

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 05:25:57 pm
content: Because its important to hook your scope up to the internet so that it can look up scope porn while you aren't using it?

author: Dwaine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 03:06:39 pm
content: No... But T&M manufactures should start caring about their kernels and code for security and performance/bugfixes.

author: modernjack3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 08:08:35 am
content: Hey guys!I got my DS7024 a couple of weeks ago and so far I am really happy with it, it worked like a charm leading up to yesterday when I was trying to debug a grayscale clock when the math function (not even a complex one - just Channel 1 && Channel 2) made my whole device crash.First I thought it might be a one time thing but after retrying the same mesurment over and over again it just kept crashing on me... for now I just hope the rest keeps working and I dont stuble upon any more hidden "features"... and that this crap gets fixed soon.I just hope future scopes, as they are getting more complex and buggy won't need a "Day one Patch" just to be properly functionalOtherwise the scope des a great job so far, the memory depth is just impressive and the touchscreen makes it possible to quickly scroll and zoom through signals that go over a long period of time.The included probes are sometimes having a little bit of a problem with actually pulling their "measurment hook" or however you would call it, all the way in which feels kinda cheap but yea...Another thing to mention is that whilst the scope is definitly not loud, it is audible in a quiet working area, so if you are easily annoyed by that you might want to pass on this one.All in all I am really happy with this scope and so far and I havent encountered any bugs in the hardware that couldnt easily be fixed by rigol.This math function flaw seems to at least be fixable by a simple software update if they care enough.In case you guys want to hear any fedback to certain features of the scope or have any questions I could answer, I am happy to do so!Greetings, Jack

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2018, 04:46:11 pm
content: Have you escalated the bug to Rigol? What do they say?

author: modernjack3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 08:50:42 am
content: So far I haven't really gotten time for doing so... but once I did I will let you know what they did!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2018, 02:20:27 pm
content: Quote from: modernjack3 on August 20, 2018, 08:50:42 amPerhaps you could post a small list here.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 09:40:58 am
content: The v00.01.01.07.01 .GEL file is a .TAR archive and can be opened with the 7-zip decompressor.Inside there are the following files:Code:21-06-2018 10:18 81.133.568 app.img21-06-2018 10:18 4.736 fw4linux.sh21-06-2018 10:18 4.784 fw4uboot.sh19-09-2017 07:15 71.920 logo.hex21-06-2018 10:17 14.210.704 system.img13-06-2018 14:10 3.510.668 zynq.bitfw4linux.shandfw4uboot.share 2 AES-CBC encrypted shell scriptsapp.imgis a UBI image (file list attached)logo.hexis a 404x89 bitmap (format 16bpp Rgb565). (image attached)system.imgis a U-Boot FIT Image containing a gzipped 32MBytes filesystem image (rootfs.img).zynq.bit(FPGA bistream) has the following parsing:Code:00000000 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000004 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000008 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000000C - FFFFFFFF Padding00000010 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000014 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000018 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000001C - FFFFFFFF Padding00000020 - 000000BB Bus width auto detect, word 100000024 - 11220044 Bus width auto detect, word 200000028 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000002C - FFFFFFFF Padding00000030 - AA995566 Sync Word (BPI/SPI Mode)00000034 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00000038 - 30022001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 TIMER00000040 - 30020001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 WBSTAR00000048 - 30008001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 CMD NULL - No Operation00000050 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00000054 - 30008001 00000007 T1 W 00000001 CMD RCRC - Reset CRC0000005C - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)00000064 - 30026001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 FALL_EDGE0000006C - 30012001 02003FE5 T1 W 00000001 COR000000074 - 3001C001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 COR10000007C - 30018001 0373B093 T1 W 00000001 IDCODE00000084 - 30008001 00000009 T1 W 00000001 CMD SWITCH - Switch CCLK Frequency0000008C - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00000090 - 3000C001 00000401 T1 W 00000001 MASK00000098 - 3000A001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 CTL0000000A0 - 3000C001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 MASK000000A8 - 30030001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 CTL1000000B0 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (8x)000000D0 - 30002001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 FAR000000D8 - 30008001 00000001 T1 W 00000001 CMD WCFG - Write Config Data000000E0 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)000000E4 - 30004000 T1 W 00000000 FDRI000000E8 - 500D621C T2 W 000D621C00358964 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)0035896C - 30008001 0000000A T1 W 00000001 CMD GRESTORE - Pulse GRESTORE Signal00358974 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00358978 - 30008001 00000003 T1 W 00000001 CMD DGHIGH/LFRM - Last Frame Write00358980 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (100x)00358B10 - 30008001 00000005 T1 W 00000001 CMD START - Begin Startup Sequence00358B18 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00358B1C - 30002001 03BE0000 T1 W 00000001 FAR00358B24 - 3000C001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 MASK00358B2C - 3000A001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 CTL000358B34 - 30000001 E3AD7EA5 T1 W 00000001 CRC00358B3C - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)00358B44 - 30008001 0000000D T1 W 00000001 CMD DESYNC - Reset DALIGN Signal00358B4C - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (400x)The IDCODE =0373B093corresponds to theXilinx Zynq-7015.Inside the app.img there is another FPGA bitstream (K160M_TOP.bit):Code:00000000 - 0009 (0x0009) File Header Length00000002 - 0FF00FF0 (0x0FF00FF0) File Header Long 100000006 - 0FF00FF0 (0x0FF00FF0) File Header Long 20000000A - 00 (0x00) File Header Zero0000000B - 0001 (0x0001) Key Length0000000D - 61 002B (key a) Design Name: K160M_TOP;UserID=0XFFFFFFFF;Version=2015.20000003B - 62 000D (key b) Part Name: 7k160tffg6760000004B - 63 000B (key c) Generation Date: 2018/06/1200000059 - 64 0009 (key d) Generation Time: 22:41:0800000065 - 65 00661EDC (key e) Bitstream Length: 00661EDC [0000006A-00661F45]-------------- BITSTREAM ------------------------0000006A - FFFFFFFF Padding0000006E - FFFFFFFF Padding00000072 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000076 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000007A - FFFFFFFF Padding0000007E - FFFFFFFF Padding00000082 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000086 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000008A - 000000BB Bus width auto detect, word 10000008E - 11220044 Bus width auto detect, word 200000092 - FFFFFFFF Padding00000096 - FFFFFFFF Padding0000009A - AA995566 Sync Word (BPI/SPI Mode)0000009E - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)000000A2 - 30022001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 TIMER000000AA - 30020001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 WBSTAR000000B2 - 30008001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 CMD NULL - No Operation000000BA - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)000000BE - 30008001 00000007 T1 W 00000001 CMD RCRC - Reset CRC000000C6 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)000000CE - 30026001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 FALL_EDGE000000D6 - 30012001 020035E5 T1 W 00000001 COR0000000DE - 3001C001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 COR1000000E6 - 30018001 0364C093 T1 W 00000001 IDCODE000000EE - 30008001 00000009 T1 W 00000001 CMD SWITCH - Switch CCLK Frequency000000F6 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)000000FA - 3000C001 00000401 T1 W 00000001 MASK00000102 - 3000A001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 CTL00000010A - 3000C001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 MASK00000112 - 30030001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 CTL10000011A - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (8x)0000013A - 30002001 00000000 T1 W 00000001 FAR00000142 - 30008001 00000001 T1 W 00000001 CMD WCFG - Write Config Data0000014A - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)0000014E - 30004000 T1 W 00000000 FDRI00000152 - 50198570 T2 W 001985700066171E - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)00661726 - 30008001 0000000A T1 W 00000001 CMD GRESTORE - Pulse GRESTORE Signal0066172E - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)00661732 - 30008001 00000003 T1 W 00000001 CMD DGHIGH/LFRM - Last Frame Write0066173A - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (100x)006618CA - 30008001 00000005 T1 W 00000001 CMD START - Begin Startup Sequence006618D2 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (1x)006618D6 - 30002001 03BE0000 T1 W 00000001 FAR006618DE - 3000C001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 MASK006618E6 - 3000A001 00000501 T1 W 00000001 CTL0006618EE - 30000001 E3AD7EA5 T1 W 00000001 CRC006618F6 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (2x)006618FE - 30008001 0000000D T1 W 00000001 CMD DESYNC - Reset DALIGN Signal00661906 - 20000000 T1 - 00000000 NOP (400x)It has IDCODE =0364C093which corresponds to aXilinx XC7K160T FPGA.flamingo_consoleis the main app. Inside are the interesting validations.Rigol DS7000 - License Upgrade Options (as seen on the app code):Code:BW1T2 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (100MHZ TO 200MHZ)BW1T3 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (100MHZ TO 350MHZ)BW1T5 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (100MHZ TO 500MHZ)BW2T3 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (200MHZ TO 350MHZ)BW2T5 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (200MHZ TO 500MHZ)BW3T5 - BANDWIDTH UPGRADE (350MHZ TO 500MHZ)MSO - ENABLE 16 DIGITAL CHANNELS2RL - MEMORY DEPTH UPGRADE (250MPTS MAX.)5RL - MEMORY DEPTH UPGRADE (500MPTS MAX.)BND - FUNCTION & APPLICATION BUNDLECOMP - RS232/UART BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISEMBD - I2C/SPI BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISAUTO - CAN/LIN BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISFLEX - FLEXRAY BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISAUDIO - I2S BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISSENSOR - SENT SENSOR TRIGGER & ANALYSISAERO - MIL-STD-1553 BUS TRIGGER & ANALYSISARINC - ARINC-429 SERIAL TRIGGER & ANALYSISAWG (DG) - DUAL CHANNEL WAVEGEN 25 MHZJITTER - JITTER & REALTIME EYE DIAGRAM ANALYSISMASK - MASK TESTPWR - INTEGRATED POWER ANALYSISDVM - INTEGRATED DIGITAL VOLTMETERCTR - INTEGRATED 10 DIGIT COUNTEREDK - EDUCATION AND TRAINING OPTIONIf anyone knows any other descriptions or corrections...

author: carl0s
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 05:27:25 pm
content: Seem to be a lot of man pages in there ?!?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2018, 06:14:01 pm
content: It would be interesting to check if the non-MSO version has part of the unpopulated circuitry in place on the main PCB Board to make your own MSO version and DIY Logic Analyzer probe.If this is the case, one can do with the DS7014 model and turn it into a fully functional MSO7054 model!

author: Hagrid
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2018, 07:15:11 am
content: Quote from: modernjack3 on August 16, 2018, 08:08:35 amThank you a lot! I wonder if you can use math functions on other math functions and then further process the data (making measurements, doing statistical analysis, using the color grating or histogram feature or all at once). I know the error will get worse and 8-Bit resolution is not that much to start with.If this thing is found do te hackable this thing will have a massive impact i guess.

author: linus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 08:40:13 pm
content: HiI was about selecting a new scope to analyze BLDC motor drivers when the 700 Series was released. Has anyone yet concluded how the MSO7000 compares to the RTM3000 in real live scenarios? i.e. has anyone used both?More specifically I'm looking into MSO7014 vs RTM3004Thanks for sharing.Linus

author: extronic
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 05:25:02 am
content: Quote from: linus on September 11, 2018, 08:40:13 pmYou'd better wait for Dave to review MSO7000. He's already got one for testing over a month ago and millions of people around the world can't stand waiting to watch his review

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 04:16:06 pm
content: Quote from: linus on September 11, 2018, 08:40:13 pmhere is a nice pic for you, I took it yesterday at the office

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:04:18 pm
content: Quote from: linus on September 11, 2018, 08:40:13 pmYou better get them both on loan and see which one meets your expectations.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 06:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: simone.pignatti on September 12, 2018, 04:16:06 pmi DO have to call your office tomorrowAbout the choice, get them both on loan and don't underestimate the pattern generator on the RTM!For example, in a board i'm re-designing these days the inputs are high voltage signals in a certain sequence. after a bit of conditioning they can be resolved as a parallel logic bus. Capture, reproduce on the pattern gen.. maybe add some spurious and see if firmware/logic handles it well without the risk of blowing something up.

author: linus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 07:56:22 pm
content: Thanks, SimoneSo, what is your first impression?Linus

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2018, 08:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: linus on September 12, 2018, 07:56:22 pmBoth units are really nice, R&S user interface is very friendly and after 5 minutes you start the unit for the first you are already navigating through the menu finding what you need. Rigol UI is more recent and may need some firmware update (like R&S had after launching).Rigol unit is wider to accomodate the 4 channels command without loosing display size (both 10.1" touch).Rigol has the HDMI port which is really cool, I was at customer making a demo and we used the 60inch monitor they had in the meeting room, impressive.Probably R&S has a cleaner signal.For Rigol to get the signal generator you must buy the MSO.

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2018, 08:36:32 pm
content: Hello everyone!Few weeks ago I got hold of a new Rigol MSO7014, and this week-end I discovered this awesome forum!I have a decent electronic background, and I am happy to experiment (within reason) on my scope for the greatergood of the community, hopefully to find a way to "upgrade" this new model

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2018, 08:22:54 am
content: I think the JTAG was located in the teardown, seek @ 11min58sec

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2018, 09:09:34 am
content: wat - To help keep the hounds off Dave, if you have any general feedback on the scope please feel free to share.May relax a few who's pockets have money trying to burn themselves out of. Not me of course...no, no definitely not me....really

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2018, 05:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: RobBarter on September 24, 2018, 09:09:34 amI don't have anything cool to measure yet, that will come soon...Some marginal comments: it's cool that you can have 4 analogue channels plus the digital on at the same timeSmall downside: it takes about 40 seconds to bootI have one little concern: I don't see how to enter an expansion license, that menu is disabled. (Possibly this will change with the next FW release??)

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2018, 08:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: wat on September 24, 2018, 05:43:35 pmPossibly only a USB pendisk (with the specific license) will enable the local upgrade??

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2018, 09:11:32 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on September 24, 2018, 08:08:53 pmRigol-supplied keyfile?Has anybody ordered their DS7000 with upgrades? How do they work?

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2018, 03:19:14 am
content: Has anyone done any comparisons with Keysight 3000 scopes ? I only see comparisons done with Teks 3000 scopes and we know how hamstrung they can be when there is too much going on at once.

author: jamodio
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 25, 2018, 03:24:41 am
content: Same as other options, they send a pdf Software License Certificate with the key.You go to their site, enter the key and serial number and it generates the license file that gets installed via USB.

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 09:29:04 pm
content: I've used it a bit, generating some waveforms with a microcontroller (dacs and PWM output, ignore the not-perfect saw-tooth, it's normal like this).The response is good, just one critic: it should save the settings when powering off: after boot it always starts up with the default settings: all 4 channels active, 1V/div and 1us/div. Digital inputs off.Probably every other DSO at power up has the settings that were left last time it was used

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 10:09:44 pm
content: Quote from: wat on October 01, 2018, 09:29:04 pmHave a look at themanual, page 19-6, "Power On". Configure this setting to "last" it should work as you are used to.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 10:12:12 pm
content: Quote from: wat on October 01, 2018, 09:29:04 pmEven the humble DS1054Z has a menu item to select that...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2018, 10:24:32 pm
content: Press Utility  System, and then press Power On continuously to select "Last" or"Default". By default, it is "Last". Last: returns to the setting of the system at last power-off. Default: returns to the factory setting of the system.manual is your friend.....

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2018, 07:17:24 am
content: Thank you guys ()Honestly I wasn't expecting it could exist an option different from "Last", I've never seen it before on any scope (or maybe I forgot about it...)I'll read the manual, promise!

author: zeratul42
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 12:27:01 pm
content: Any idea to find magic private key ?

author: seppeltronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 07:31:05 pm
content: HelloI'm buying an Oscilloscope next week and think I get a Rigol MSO7014. What do you think about the unit? The discussion was that my colleague prefers scopes that have a dedicated knob-set for each channel, so I came up with the MSO7014. The other option would be the R&S RTB2K-104M.Any comments/recommendations?Thank you very much,Best Regards, Seppel

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 07:40:06 pm
content: Make a test plan to see if the oscilloscope does what you need it to do. If you need to do that on your boss' dime then you better get the R&S RTB2000 or R&S RTM3000 because there will be no money savings. Bosses like to pay for tools which work out of the box and don't need a whole lot of tinkering.The R&S scopes are also a much safer bet when it comes to firmware updates and support. Rigol doesn't have a good track record getting the firmware on their higher end scopes fixed quickly. Look at the DS2000 and DS4000 threads on this forum.

author: seppeltronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 12:57:57 pm
content: Hello,well, the “scope thing” has a longer story. In general we order the scope for one of my colleagues, he'd like to heave TDS2014C (we all know it's a vintage scope), he will use it a lot and he requested to have 4 separate controls. Because the TDS2014C is so hopelessly outdated I stepped in and with the argument that the DS7014 also got 4 knobs we may order the Rigol. Finally I was able to get a better discount on the MSO than the DS, that way I was able to get an MSO. It's a compromise, but considering the TDS2014C starting-point I pulled it very far. The HDMI Output is also something that may be useful on workshops, tech-days,... so I can show off the things we do. The Rigol has an Integral math function, we use the Integral math function a lot on our other measurement systems.The R&S RTB2k104M with the RTB-PK1 option-bundle was my first choice, but I could not “sell” the “one knob” control to the department actually buying the scope. What also concerns me, the R&S is the piezoelectric effect of the Input, the environment we work in is related to vibration. The R&S is a good scope, that is very likely the next one I will push to buy.Best Regards, Seppel

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 04:21:37 pm
content: The microphonic sensitivity on the R&S RTB2000 is mainly due to the BNCs not being fixed to the case. The RTM3000 has the BNCs bolted to the chassis and this should take care of most of the microphonic sensitivity. Then again I don't think it is much of a problem in real world scenarios. It doesn't look like much but Dave is sending very large impacts directly into the oscilloscopes. It is unlikely a vibrating table causes a similar effect. Also consider that modern scopes have near real-time web interfaces so having a big screen connected to an oscilloscope directly is not that big of an advantage. It is a pity the department buying the scope is so hung up on the 'one knob' because with a good touch screen interface you can do without the knobs AND work faster.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 05:58:13 pm
content: The "piezo effect" is a hard sell if you have to specify the oscilloscope where someone else has to use as well and may have his mind set on a specific model that does not have this effect (I am assuming this does not happen).I would contact the three manufacturers and get demo units to get the "approval" of everyone involved. That would be a much safer approach, although you may not have the luxury of time.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2018, 11:35:13 pm
content: Dunno when it started, but there seems to be a sale where you get all the protocol decoders, the power quality measurement and the AWG (on MSO models) options for free until end of this year:https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/7000/

author: seppeltronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 01:21:49 pm
content: Hello,we just bought a Rigol MSO7k with Trigger-options, my first impressions:You can increase the brightness of the MSO7k, per default it's dim, after setting it to 80-90% it is ok.Having HDMI is awesome, I tried it with a big screen in a meeting-room, cool feature. I'll propose we will use it on one of the next Tech-Days where we show products to customers. Why they just got 1280*720, instead of the 1920*1080 I have no idea, hopefully they offer it in one of the next updates.Boot-time is ok, I used Tek's, LeCroy,... that were far worse, I think Dave overreacts.The protective front cover is included, I think every scope(or other equipment) should have it included as standard. It makes storage very convenient, very nice.It'll take a while until I can come up with some more details, currently I'm very busy with project management,... In January I'll have more time.Best Regards, Seppel

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:43:29 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on August 21, 2018, 09:40:58 am500MHz and 500M memory are not options that Rigol have disclosed. Interesting.Just think, they are selling, at a profit, a 4CH 500MHz mixed signal scope with 500M of memory and dual ARB's for as little as US$900 retail.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:47:25 am
content: Quote from: seppeltronics on October 14, 2018, 12:57:57 pmHighly unlikely to be a problem in practice, the feet and case decoupling would almost certainly attenuate anything to down in to the existing noise floor.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:49:17 am
content: Quote from: seppeltronics on October 13, 2018, 07:31:05 pmIf the company is paying, and money isn't really an issue, get the R&S, it's a much nicer and more capable scope with the 10bit ADC. Little contest there really.

author: oliv3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 07:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on August 21, 2018, 09:40:58 amI'm curious, I'm looking at both shell scripts, but the first character seems to be off in both. In fw4linux.sh the first character seems to be an '=' but I'm quite guessing it should be a '#' to make the first line a comment. I can't seem to spot what caused the error, it's not a simple bit-flip ..as for fw4uboot.sh, it seems to be missing the entire first character ...Can you double check if this is indeed what went wrong?Finally, I think the shebang went missing on purpose; they probably are calling the script as `sh fw4linux.sh` somewhere so the executability likely won't matter ...

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 08:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: oliv3r on December 23, 2018, 07:29:16 pmThe first 4 bytes are (what I think is) a CRC32, after decryption! I didn't bother to verify but I can if needed.So, I cutted those 4 bytes. (i think all of them)I assume that if that is important maybe they, when removing the CRC, replace it with the proper #.I have the AES key in the 5000 thread, so you can do the decryption yourself to validate.

author: oliv3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 09:47:56 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on December 23, 2018, 08:07:03 pmI don't have a scope yet, so I'll see if I can run the binary in qemu (I have it from the fw update). But if you manually did some cutting, then that can explain things, or rather, maybe they muked up the en/decryption of the file and it's not exactly 32 bits (I would not be suprised there).But thanks, that explains it!

author: rowifi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2019, 11:09:43 am
content: I've recently tried this scope.It's full of bugs, regularly locks up and hardly worthy as a serious instrument at this time.1. Using the search button regularly causes a lock up2. Memory waveform recall.. lucky if it does.. partial recall, sometimes none, sometimes a bit, occasionally most.3. Cursors that have been moved offscreen loose their position when the other cursor is moved.4. Cursors don't track the math trace properly5. Trigger rearm time seemed to be 60ms, no hope of storing fast segments into memory6. Plugging in a probe generated a whole load of screen data/noise killing the current view.7.. There were others.

author: mindy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2019, 12:34:34 pm
content: Hello,So far I'm happy with MSO7k performance & functionality, but I'm a bit concerned of my device calibration and wondering is this something what can be fixed by a Firmware upgrade or I should be filling a warranty card for my brand new scopeI'm unable to get a perfectly flat 1k square with included passive probes RP3500A, I'm getting a small dip at the beginning of each wave.Can this be a source of a small overshoot observed on a signal generator?When I tried a DIY 1k probe on a 50input with 1:20 attenuation I got a perfectly flat square wave.Does anyone have a similar experience or can suggest if it's still in a acceptable error margin or should I be concerned and send it for a repair?BTW tried to re-calibrate multiple times but this does not helped

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2019, 11:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: mindy on February 10, 2019, 12:34:34 pmI'd say that was due to the probing technique, nothing to do with the 'scope.Quote from: mindy on February 10, 2019, 12:34:34 pmWhat does a piece of 50 Ohm terminated coax cable give you?Quote from: mindy on February 10, 2019, 12:34:34 pmNo.

author: mindy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 10:55:33 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 10, 2019, 11:15:40 pmI've tried to use a spring for my probe ground to minimise signal ringing on measuring signal from my integrated AWG what made little to none effect.I saw very similar result (overshoot) on a different (external) signal source as well.But the most important is a compensation 1k square wave which clearly shows a dip and can not be fully compensated.This should eliminate an inductive loading from the equation as compensation signal ground is connected internally.Obviously I'm not going to solder my probe tip to compensation clip for a better contact, but I did my best to make sure that it has a good contact.Any further tips to try before concluding that either Probe OR Scope is defective?Quote from: Fungus on February 10, 2019, 11:15:40 pmAs I mentioned I tried a quick test (1k 0.25W resistor directly connected to compensation signal & Channel 1) and I got a perfectly flat square wave. Then I'll have more time I'll make a bit more robust probe with compensation and parasitics taking into account. Differential probe would do even better. But my concern right now is about 1M ohm range / included Probes quality.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 12:09:13 pm
content: You can try a coax cable and a 50 Ohm feed-through terminator. A 1M input usually has various frequency cross-over points which need to be adjusted. Perhaps you are seeing the crossover between the LF and HF path of the 1M input. The 50 Ohm input path may be entirely different.

author: KlausF
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2019, 01:08:11 pm
content: Nice device, but imho way too expensive, regrettably.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 12:41:49 pm
content: Quote from: pingus on February 18, 2019, 09:03:13 amYes, it's labelled on the front, "Rigol"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIGOL_Technologies

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 01:58:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 18, 2019, 12:41:49 pmLOL

author: swansonbroth
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 06:21:25 am
content: Hi there,is there a way to get all the options and a bandwith upgrade up to 500 MHz for my DS7014 over a GEL File?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 08:55:13 am
content: Use the same method as in the MSO5000 thread. Just need to craft the correct 7000 patch.

author: swansonbroth
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 09:06:09 am
content: @tv84did you have a workaround or how is the procedure?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2019, 12:48:49 pm
content: Quote from: swansonbroth on May 16, 2019, 09:06:09 amI didn't do any patch for the 7000. If anyone wants to create the patch, I can provide the bytes to be changed.

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2019, 04:47:25 pm
content: Hello all,something similar to the previous post, but not necessarily locking it to a GEL file: what's the best way to enhancea MSO7014? (FW 00.01.01.07.01)I read the "Hacking the MSO5000" forum, all of it.Now, having the ssh enabled (root/root), I would think the -fullopt should be easiest way, and I can see in the "start.sh", line 82, the flamingo app being launched:Code:/rigol/flamingo_console $PowerOn -wpu_compress &shall I just add the -fullopt there? Will it work?Otherwise I don't think I have enough experience to create a GEL file myself to patch the app,but I'll be happy to move on another forum ("Hacking the 7000"?) and provide assistance to someone more capable and create a tutorial for it.Thanks

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2019, 10:11:34 pm
content: Quote from: wat on May 18, 2019, 04:47:25 pmSell it and buy a used DSOX3014?(Sorry, I really couldn't resist the opportunity or, as we say in my home country: we lose the friend but don't lose the joke)

author: KlausF
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 10:17:58 pm
content: Too tired for reading so much. Waiting for a video review.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2019, 08:27:52 pm
content: Just tested:A fresh fully licensed MSO7000 with the latest v00.01.01.09.02 FW doesn't show any sign of working with the JITTER/EYE options!!What a mega bummer!!!Even the MSO5000 shows some signs of JITTER based on the MSO8000 developments...Maybe this 7000 thing is dead and it doesn't even know it!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2019, 07:35:39 pm
content: Bandwidth on a "opened up" MSO7000 using a Leo Bodnar fast rise time pulse generator 10Mhz (40picosec version):First image of the pulse genny taken with acquisition set to average, measure set to normal mode, BW @250Mhz as you can see the average is just a shade of 1ns for rise time which would indicate a BW around the the 350Mhz mark using 2 averages.Second trace as above with BW limit removed all other setting identical, now the result is 455 picosec rise time which is pretty close to around 820Mhz.The 3rd one is a 25HMz rolling linear sweep, 500mV p2p.

author: SpaleKG
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 10:37:16 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on August 25, 2019, 07:35:39 pmCan you share resources for unlocking MSO7000? Do you have GAL with enabled SSH? Or if you have any patched GAL for MSO7000.Quote from: tv84 on May 16, 2019, 12:48:49 pmI would like to try to create patch for 7000. Please provide what needs to be changed.Thanks,Spale

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 10:53:12 am
content: Quote from: SpaleKG on September 27, 2019, 10:37:16 amUse the method for the MSO5000 as described here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2682411/#msg2682411You will need to patch the app accordingly.

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 08:49:07 pm
content: Thanks totv84, here is an happy owner of an "upgraded" MSO7014!!!500MHz and all the options enabled!I have the latest FW downloaded from the Rigol main website:https://rigol.com/supports/software-firmware-download_3.html(Google Chrome is great to translate pages in Chinese!)

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 08:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: wat on October 01, 2019, 08:49:07 pmWelcome to the club actually you have pretty close yo 1Ghz BW as well Tv84 is rather good isn't he

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2019, 09:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on October 01, 2019, 08:53:56 pmI would say awesome, yeah!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2019, 09:50:27 pm
content: Backup scripts for MSO/DS7000Here.

author: swperk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2019, 12:44:27 am
content: Another big thumbs up to @tv84! I've got a fully enhanced DS7014 now, running the 01.01.07 firmware. Does anyone know if it's possible to "enhance" the 01.01.09.02 firmware?

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2019, 10:41:11 am
content: Just curiosity, How is the web interface of DS7000 is like DS5000 a jpg image who refreshes very slow?

author: fact
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2020, 07:14:42 am
content: The MSO5000 and MSO7000 series are very similar in appearance and base firmware. The differences can be found in the larger bandwidth and better connector for the LA-probe in the MSO7000. The MSO7000 package also includes the LA-probes whereas this is an option for the MSO5000.Compared to R&S scopes you will find the noise floor of the Rigol offering to be higher and some rough edges in the firmware for the Rigol scopes, but even the R&S scopes still contain bugs.Both Rigol scopes are hackable.

author: fact
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 04:13:59 pm
content: I looked at the options and decided that going for a MSO7014 would allow for a sensible investment with an interesting upgrade path. My scope now has all options enabled and a measured bandwidth of 800+ MHz. My budget is limited and certainly not sufficient for a scope with the specifications I have now. No idea how the responsiveness compares to the 5000 series but for me the 7000 is responsive enough.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 09:02:27 pm
content: The 7000 is one that is overlooked, with the help of certain astute members of this forum the 7000 can be turned into a really good scope for a sensible cost.Remember 10G/s + 500M of memory makes for good debug, it now has high resolution and precision functions, plus a 10 inch screen some useful tools plus an hdmi out.We have one of these in test lab and it works very well, we also have an 8000 which is a real serious model. We also have Siglent, HP, Tektronix kit as well.The Rigol's hold there own in a lot of areas, as I have mentioned before no they are not upper mid point top five brand scopes, but they do a lot right and the 8000 has some decent noise figures in certain areas that are equal to or slightly better than some of well know long established brands we have entertained recently.We now have a LeCroy wavepro to bench test so we are lookig forward to that, however the Rigol scopes and RTA are damn fine for what we require and our staff like them and some of them are used to big ticket ticket items.I occasionally curse the 8000 boot up time around 50 seconds , but the Tek mso64 took around 5 minutes to boot up. granted it is really an R&D scope and not an everyday bench item.The 7000 you get an awful lot for your money, though I would suggesting investing in a couple of good probes,. Rigol also manufacturer a Tek to Rigol adapter as well.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2020, 10:17:14 pm
content: Sighound36 forgot to mention that he also possesses MSO5000 so he's one of the few people here that have tested/used them all.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 09:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 19, 2020, 11:30:34 amAs I was a little disappointed about the noisy frontend of the 5000, I was toying with the idea to change it against a 7000.Asked the rigol.eu support, if they are differences between the 5000 and 7000 what this concerns, they´ve answered no, not at all.Therefore, I´ve changed the brand.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2020, 11:17:28 pm
content: I would think the main difference frontend wise would be the 50Ohm switching on the DS7000/MSO7000. There might be other simplifications in the MSO5000, but it seems sensible to assume that the noise level is in the same league.What's for sure is that the DS7000 doesn't have a true 1mV/div or even 2mV/div range, either. So the lowest vertical range actually is 4mV/div and everything below is just digital magnification. I guess they didn't even bother to implement lower ranges since they would be unusable due to the noise level.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 08:56:14 am
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amhttps://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/spl2016/Fits SDS2000X, SDS2000X Plus and SDS5000X

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 09:03:15 am
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amIn some way this reminds me of my PC repair shop days. People would come in with crappy PCs which didn't work well due to bad hardware. So the first diagnosis: you bought crappy hardware, live with it. Can tweak it a little but half your PC needs replacing if you want a machine which works fine. After making do for a while they usually came back for the hardware swap. So money going into my pocket again. But in the end these people ended spending more money on their cheap PC compared to buying a good one.I'm seeing a similar pattern here. People keep swapping between scopes and brands and have to lose money in the process.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 09:32:50 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2020, 09:03:15 amWhen we listen to you, we have the impression that the oscilloscope is unusable, unreliable and crashes like a crappy PC....but it is not the case.I would have loved to be able to afford an RTM3004 or a Keysight 3000T but this is not possible at this time.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 12:10:31 pm
content: For those guys that want do play with their MSO/DS7000 here is a .GEL to temporarily open the SSH port.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 01:33:50 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 09:32:50 amThen why did you go through (IIRC) 4 oscilloscopes in the past year?How much money did you spend in total?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amNot only on this level. On any level. There is no such thing as a perfect scope that makes everybody happy.Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amI would bet that none of the mentioned scopes or any other somewhat serious digital scope of the last twenty years actually hadpotentiometersbuild in. Even twenty years ago, all the scopes on the market used rotary (quadrature/incremental) encoders.Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amThat's true but not really an argument to buy a Rigol DS/MSO7000 which doesn't even have a 1Ghz option.Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amActually, only the top end model "SDS2354X Plus" comes with proper probes - and costs nearly as much as the Siglent SDS5034X (actually more if you consider the free options you get with the SDS5034X ). Anyway, this being cheap on the probes is really ridiculous.Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 08:32:18 amWhich is bout half of what it costs normally (3806.81€ including VAT). So while saving money always is a nice thing, it doesn't really make sense to compare a bargain to regular prices of other products.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:12:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2020, 01:33:50 pmYou are not 100% wrongI bought severals scope in the past four years....but I need 2 scope, one at work and one at home.I started my business in 2015 and I have to say that I was not as crazy about test equipement as I am now.At that time, the scope that were in my budget were based on old platform with limited CPU power, less capable regarding protocol decoding, auto measurement or math function for example.And no one had a touch screen.When i saw the progress that was made at this level, I wanted to change before my old scopes became unsaleable or completely obsolete.But you can be sure that when my business will be more peaceful and that I will have more money, I will buy a Keysight.For the moment, I have not encountered big troubles during my development because of my Chinese scope.I am certainly less competent than you and work on less complex things which explains why I can live with 2000€ oscilloscope when you need a >6000€ one.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:22:09 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 21, 2020, 02:08:53 pmYou are right, I meant rotary encoder. But that doesn't change the fact that they are cheap on the Siglent and much better on Rigol scope.It sound ridiculous but that matters to me, just like the fan noise....and to be honest, it is better on Siglent scope.And regarding the price, sadly, it make sense to me. I hope one day It will not.I don't know why the price was so low this time, it is a brand new device. For me and my needs, I think it is hard to have a better price/perf ratio.And last little info, the MSO7000 has no 1Ghz option you are right, but hacked to 500Mhz, it has a BW >800Mhz which will be enough for me.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 02:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 02:22:09 pmOf course a ~50% discount can change the perspective about a product, but this doesn't really matter for those paying the full price.Quote from: jemangedeslolos on February 21, 2020, 02:22:09 pmWell, that's debatable I guess. Maybe it will give a step response that looks like 800MHz bandwidth, but that's not necessarily the same thing.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 03:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 21, 2020, 02:41:04 pmI never said that my choice was the best whatever the scenario.I had never been interested in this scope before coming across this offer.After taking a closer look, at this price, I thought it was one of the best options for the poor man that I am.Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 21, 2020, 02:41:04 pmI think Sighound36 has all the equipment necessary to make this measurement for us.I believe he use two method to measure the BW and he found 850Mhz with flat method

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:04:02 pm
content: The rise time taken with the Bodnar reference (40ps) no bandwidth or high resolution mode on

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:10:51 pm
content: So the average step response bandwidth with the commonly used rule of thumb (0.35/t_rise) would be 764.5MHz. Anyway, as assumed, this is just the bandwidth calculated from the rule of thumb which doesn't take into account any (digital) filtering going on in the scope. At least my understanding is that the factor 0.35 is merely based on an RC lowpass filter at the input.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:30:43 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 21, 2020, 04:10:51 pmThat is correct. Basically you can't determine the bandwidth of a DSO using the rise time.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:54:41 pm
content: Correct 0.35 is rule of thumb, though some use 0.45 depending on how good they want you to see there products.That means that a great many product literature sheets are incorrect then?https://community.keysight.com/community/keysight-blogs/oscilloscopes/blog/2016/09/01/what-is-oscilloscope-system-bandwidth-and-how-do-i-find-the-bandwidth-of-the-scope-probe

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 04:58:44 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on February 21, 2020, 04:54:41 pmThe link you added clearly says that the factor of .35 isn't set in stone. So yes, every piece of literature which blindly assumes a factor of .35 is wrong. Bandwidth (of any system) is defined as the point where the level is >3dB different compared to the reference level.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 05:25:57 pm
content: Indeed but using the 0.45 formula would give a a greater bandwidth in retrospective so in essence stretching things a bit I feel!You can also use a know signal frequency and amplitude as benchmark and work you work up the frequencies until you reach the point of -3db roll off this you can compare to the rise times to check you are getting for a correlation between the two methods.If you like (Siglent appreciation society founding member) I am happy to work both methods on our Wavepro 254 for you later if you wish.The 7000 is with one of my colleagues this week, however I can also perform the same tests on the MSO8000 ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 06:56:35 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on February 21, 2020, 05:25:57 pmNo. Bandwidth is bandwidth.QuoteOnly testing with an RF generator yields valid results. Using the risetime is nothing more than an educated guess.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 08:12:45 pm
content: Yea, those coefficients are essentially guessing at the filter. That's why you go .45 for >=1GHz because it's likely brickwall. The real test is passband flatness across whatever you consider the bandwidth to be. A Rigol may well see an 870MHz signal but it's definitely not going to be flat or a nice roll off. It'll likely be up and down significantly more than the quoted bandwidth range.

author: fact
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 08:29:01 pm
content: Measured the bandwidth of my MSO7000 with a RF-generator, -3dB frequency at 760MHz for CH1.This was pretty close to the estimated bandwidth of 810MHz using a Bodnar fast rise-time generator.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 09:06:20 pm
content: Didn´t really need an rf generator for my works and buying one only for measure once the bandwith would be too expensive.They are some chinese things on the market for a few bucks (appx 120€) - But i think, they´re too crappy, or ?

author: fact
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 09:08:50 pm
content: I used the tracking generator in my SAA3021x.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 11:59:28 am
content: DHL lost my package

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 01:57:01 pm
content: Quote from: fact on February 24, 2020, 08:29:01 pmI have measured three via this means using a E4433b and they were all different, the best one I measured was 818Mhz @-3 dB the least was 787Mhz @ -3dB the bodar equated 830 and 870MhzThe 8000 was reading 2.216Ghz@-3dB and 168ps on the Bodnarhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso-8000/msg2823500/#msg2823500The Wavepro254 measures 2.687Ghz@-3dB the bodnar reads 158ps on that scope

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 11:46:16 am
content: Did anybody try the latest FW 1.2.0.5 for the MS/DS7000?FW link here:https://int.rigol.com/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/wd/7000

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 12:27:39 pm
content: I have the lastest....but i almost didn't use my scope with previous firmware.What do you want to know ?There are still some bugs I have to address but aybe you have a specific request ?

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 12:39:44 pm
content: Well, mainly if it possible to "enhance it" it as I did with the previous FW

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 03:04:55 pm
content: I can't answer you on this, I didn't apply the patch as I did on my previous MSO5000.

author: Leon23
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 03:18:38 pm
content: Jemangedeslolos:I read you went for the 7000 series coming from 5000 series, what was the main motivation? I assume you hacked the 5000 to 350 MHz.Was it possible to fully upgrade the MSO7014 to 500MHz?I might be able to come across an used RTB2004 for 2000e but havent decided what scope to purchase yet.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 04:42:22 pm
content: HI LeonA fully opened up 7000 equates to around 830Mhz, but it is a different animal to 5000.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 04:49:32 pm
content: Don't look at my post above, it is also because of Sighound36 that I switched to MSO7000

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 04:55:34 pm
content: And I must say that I find that an used RTB2004 for 2000€ is very expensive unless it is full featured.If it has no option, you might as well buy it new. I received a private message right here from a reseller who offered me 20% on the entire R&S range.

author: Leon23
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 07:04:42 am
content: Thanks both for your input. It is the RTB2004 fully featured for 2000e (rarely used). It seemed like a better choice than MSO5000 series with a more mature firmware and less bugs, 10 bit ADC and better display.I am missing out active probe interface and possibly some megahertz, therefore I´m trying to see whether or not someone have successfully hacked the 7000 series :-). The SDS5000 series does also look interesting but cannot find if there is any hack available.BTW what is the difference between MSO7014 and DSO7014, did the MSO series include the LA?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 07:11:19 am
content: Quote from: Leon23 on May 15, 2020, 07:04:42 amThere certainly is if you hunt hard enough here.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 08:03:18 am
content: Quote from: Leon23 on May 15, 2020, 07:04:42 amThe 7000 series is fully upgradeable via non purchase methodsThe mso does include a 16 channel LA probeThe 7000 has a larger screen better touch experiance, 10G/s sample rate and 500Mpts of deep memory it's a grown up version of the 5000 a nice user experience. The bode plot function is due very very soon as well for both the 7000/8000 seriesWe have the 5000, 7000 and 8000 Rigol models and use them every day we like them.Martin72 made a very good observation regarding the 5000 its rough diamond and he was spot on it's just seriously good value with a plethora or options. It is being thamed nicely nowThe 7000 is more refined, nicer user experience coupled with more raw horsepower plus a superb 500mpts of deep memory and 10G/s plus a genuine 50 Ohm scope termination and probe recognition.It also has the ability to perform multi domain analysis with its inputs which may prove useful as well.hope that helpsSighound

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 08:02:32 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 15, 2020, 08:03:18 amCan you eloborate a bit further on the use cases for which you use these oscilloscopes / what kind of work they are used for? Since you have also been shopping for a higher end oscilloscope I'm very interested in your opinion and experiences where it comes to the Rigol oscilloscopes.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 08:14:47 pm
content: If ntnico buys a Rigol scope for himself, I think I can leave this world in peace. I will have lived everything.As they can record data beyond the screen, nothing is impossible

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 08:32:54 pm
content: Quote from: Sighound36 on May 15, 2020, 08:03:18 amHow many people are "we"?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 08:47:23 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on May 15, 2020, 08:14:47 pmI perfectly understand Nico's request. Sighound is one of those sensible members that has real experience on test equipments that range from $1k to $100k and can say unbiased words for all of them from a user perspective, and not as a seller or paid demonstrator.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 09:42:33 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on May 15, 2020, 08:47:23 pmI too understand very well. You advised me to ask him for the MSO7000... So I harassed him by pmI am sure that he will never admit it publicly but he told me that he is so happy with his MSO7000, that he is ready to exchange mine for his last little Lecroy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 09:52:23 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on May 15, 2020, 09:42:33 pmThat is not entirely true to put it mildy. You did ask me a very generic question about 1000 to 2000 euro oscilloscopes without mentioning any specific brand and/or model which I didn't answer over a month ago. I'm sorry for not answering but I had some deadlines to catch at that time but that shouldn't result in the kind of mud slinging you are doing right now. If you wrote your posting while drunk then I strongly suggest to put an alcohol lock on your keyboard.Edit: cleared up by the post below now.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 10:09:43 pm
content: I wanted to say that I asked Sighound36....And I'm fine, thank you very much. We don't have the same sense of humor if you do have one.Just wanted to grad some general info from more experienced user than me. Not a big deal if you had too much work at that time but I was not referring to this.

author: stafil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 10:15:07 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on May 15, 2020, 08:14:47 pmIf that's what it take for you to leave this world in peace, then let's all chip-in and buy him a Rigol! I am happy to put in the first $50

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 10:52:02 pm
content: I was just kidding againI was a little surprised because If you search on the forum all the evil that Nico thinks about Rigol, there will be so much info that you are going to put down the eevblog forum, maybe the whole Internet and burn Australia once again.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 10:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: jemangedeslolos on May 15, 2020, 10:52:02 pmYou have to realise that everything is in constant motion. Including Rigol and thus my opinion. I'm always interested to learn about the use cases from someone who is doing serious work with an oscilloscope and what lead to buying a particular model. Those use cases may not match mine but they could match one of my customer's so if that comes up I have some good suggestions for them to consider.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2020, 11:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 15, 2020, 10:59:24 pmYou are very right about this.

author: jealcuna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 01:37:41 am
content: Hi, I am following the guidehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2682411/#msg2682411to hack my MSO7014 oscilloscope, however I can not find the Bpatch file for my version 00.01.02.00.05 and model. Does anybody has the file or guide trough another solution?Thank you very much for the effort in the forum. c:

author: jealcuna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 01:45:17 am
content: Quote from: wat on October 01, 2019, 08:49:07 pmCan you guide me with the part of Bpatch file? Do you create this file? Have you update fw to 00.01.02.00.05 and hacked again?

author: jealcuna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 03:53:30 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on February 21, 2020, 12:10:31 pmI can add, that the updating message does not disappear, however, the ssh access is allowed. By restarting the oscilloscope ssh access is lost.

author: jemangedeslolos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 07:28:43 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 15, 2020, 10:59:24 pmIt was exactly the meaning of the question I asked you by mp. I wanted the advice of someone more experienced than me, who has advanced uses and who could have had a favorite in this price range for every day use as I also need a scope at home in case of sick child.I am fully aware that things are moving. The surprise comes from the fact that YOU may have just realized it.I think I don't need to remind anyone that you spit tirelessly on Rigol, at every possible opportunity so Im not the one that have to "realize" something.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 08:55:32 am
content: Morning chapsYes indeed jemangedeslolos did suggest that having another 7000 in place of the LeCroy would be beneficial for me and providing an exchange service would be advantageous for both of usTv84 the 'we' relates to myself, my son and good tech that is on the staff, we all use Rigol's kit every day, personally I use the 8000 which is a very good scope with features that would cost at least 14k alone on the Tek/Keysight/Lecroy and it does it very well, plus it sports a seriously deep memory.We specialize in ultra quiet linear and switch mode power supplies, audio master clocks, RF harvesting and green energy projects. We also have the Lecroy for pure R&D it's more accurate and has serial data tools that are superb, however the 8000 is the workhorse and its decent for the outlayWe use a great many manufacturers equipment from Tek/R&S/Keysight/Keithley/Rigol/Kikusiu/Agilent/Tekbox/TTI/Picoscope/Flir/Fluke.We have no association with any of the vendors other than we use all of the big four (and others) they all gave professional quality service and advice. I purchase what I feel is the right piece for the job in hand, the badge is not important, the product performance is.Totally understand that other purchasers will have other individual requirements and their findings will be different from ours.Hope that helpsSighound36

author: Gandalf_Sr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 09:00:10 am
content: jemangedeslolos,I usually get when you are joking and I appreciate it, it gives me a much needed laugh. I too joke around sometimes with obscure references to Monty Python (not a programming language) sketches (sorry not an Arduino project) that many won't understand.Some people do seem afflicted by an inability to be teased or laugh at themselves.nctnico, I fart in your general direction. (this is a joke, it is a reference to the Monty Python Holy Grail movie where King Arthur and his men, on the quest to find the Holy Grail, meet the French soldiers at a castle).

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 09:55:21 am
content: Quote from: jealcuna on May 16, 2020, 01:37:41 amjealcuna,My telnet script is supposed to get hang and be temporary. Those are features, not bugs.I could, but I won't, share a patch solution. I do that only when nobody else has been able to.But there is enough information in the forum for anyone who has a real interest/need toeasilymake his own DS7000 patch, since the MSO5000 patching is almost the same but with different offsets.These .GEL files are .tar files so any packer, like 7zip, can unpack/pack these .GEL files.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2020, 10:19:12 am
content: Quote from: Gandalf_Sr on May 16, 2020, 09:00:10 amI proclaim Rigol 7000 is not good enough. It doesn't have a shrubbery! Nii!!

author: jealcuna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2020, 09:27:42 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on May 16, 2020, 09:55:21 amYou totally misunderstand me, I am not saying that the behavior of telnet script is a bug. I am just clarifying the expected behavior if any other user want to check the script.Anyway, I was requesting help, because yes, I am lost, and does not mean that I am not interested in make my patch. If you do not want to help, it is ok, but not put words in my mouth and make a judgement without put in the place of others.Thank you very much.

author: Leon23
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 07:59:02 pm
content: Did you manage to unlock your 7014?

author: jealcuna
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 08:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: Leon23 on May 18, 2020, 07:59:02 pmAlmost, hahaha. Well I could disassemble appentry file and I check the offset suggested by mabl in mso5k thread, and it has the same instruction. However I am not sure if the complete behavior is the same. I can not assume that mso5k and mso7k with different fw versions has the same behavior. It could be a coincidence or not, anyway, I will not take risks so I have not performed any modification.I decided to use the promotion license of rigol, and I am happy with all functionalities. It does not enable more memory and bw, but for my immediate work, it's enough.I was playing with waveform generator in arbitrary mode and I save some .arb files to usb. I create a python script in order to create custom signals and save it in the same format as oscilloscope. The only thing that I have not figured out is the interpolation mode.This is my first oscilloscope so I am really exiting for all the features. So any advice, or hint, that you can share, I will be deeply thankful.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 08:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: jealcuna on May 18, 2020, 08:40:16 pmI say it again: "the MSO5000 patching is almost the same but with different offsets."Anyone who is able to see what is patched in the MSO5000 can easily find the same disassembly in the 7000.BTW, the risk of bricking the scope is negligible because there is always the bootloader update method.

author: fact
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2020, 02:58:41 pm
content: I just installed fresh firmware in my MSO7000.This text is from the release notes:----------------------------------[Supported Model] All the MSO/DS7000 Series Digital Oscilloscopes[Latest Revision Date] 2020/06/18[Updated Contents]--------------------v00.01.02.00.06 2020/06/18- In the calibration part, fine delay calibration between channels is added----------------------------------No major changes, XY-operation still a blob moving over the screen, no Bode plot, .....

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2021, 04:20:16 am
content: I tried "upgrading" the MSO7014 to all upgrade options using the MSO5000 guides and recommendations from here. It didn't work. Although I know I still have to try something else (more work). I just want to let everybody know about this experience.1) Use the gel file fromhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg2930476/#msg2930476to get ssh running.This worked fine. One thing that I wanted to do was to get ssh _always_ running without needing to use the USB key just in case something went south with the appEntry executable and then I couldn't get to the device again (because I didn't even get appEntry program running at all!!!). I mean, the plan is to tweak a binary directly. This is kind of insane (easy to screw things up).1.1) EXTRA STEP: Get ssh always running!!!In the MSO5000 thread I read somewhere that at /etc/init.d/rcS ssh was previously started, but rigol removed this in newer firmware versions. I looked at the file and I saw "#/usr/sbin/sshd" commented out. Tried removing the comment, reboot: did't work. I think the reason is because the "/" rootfs of the device is some sort of union filesystem that stores changes in RAM only. Only things changed in /rigol are permanent.Reading more, I found that after /etc/init.d/rcS /rigol/shell/start.sh is executed. In this file I added /usr/sbin/sshd at the beginning of the file. This worked perfectly. The nice thing about this is that sshd is loaded before appEntry is executed, if appEntry fails, sshd will still be running and I could restore from an old appEntry file easily and then try fast with many appEntry versions as possible.Everybody should do this! It is nice to have ssh always running!!!2) backupI just used this.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg2757408/#msg2757408Both the normal backup and the nand backupI also did a scp of /rigol directory3) Get appEntry modified correctly. I couldn't find an already modified version of an appEntry for a MSO7000.Suggestions from @tv84https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg3070602/#msg3070602are that one must "find" the "offsets". Well. Reading more I guessed they were referring to the bytes changed on the appEntry binary file. The suggestion appears to go in this direction:a) go find a MSO5000 patch fileb) get the corresponding original appEntry filec) patchd) compare original appEntry vs patched version and find out the patched data.e) search for that same binary data on my MSO7000 appEntry filef) modify data on MSO7000 appEntry file to be the same as the patched MSO5000 content on those "offsets"g) copy new patched file to the MSO7000 instead of the original file (optionally: generate a patch file and put it in the forum)I did all this and it didn't work. Actually my oscilloscope came with several packages already activated and they got deactivated. I put the original appEntry file back again, and the licenses are still deactivated.Result: total failure!!!!My firmware version: 01.01.02.00.06 (which is a weird version by the way, I can only find 00.01.02.00.06 on rigol webpage, I'm guessing it is the same, for some reason it is showing 01 at the beginning).The offsets I found are the following:0x0017E4C8 : 4 bytes modified0x0017E4E4 : 4 bytes modified0x0036DDE0 : 4 bytes modified0x0036DDFC : 4 bytes modified0x001cc0e4 : 8 bytes modifiedIn the last offset the data was already "patched". My guess is that because of the already activated licenses maybe something was already activated there. But not sure. Binary file shouldn't be different in my opinion.Next steps: disassembly/decompile. This takes a lot of analysis time. Not my idea when I decided to buy the oscilloscope.So, for normal people, or people without time: Don't buy this oscilloscope thinking it is easily upgradable for free: it is not: unless someone does this work and puts the patch here. Get the MSO5000 instead.Also, another word of advise, a next firmware version they may change the appEntry file so much that previous patches may not be "adjustable with finding out offsets" like pointed out before. This should apply to both generation of oscilloscopes (less of a problem with the more popular MSO5000 that people are more willing to put the patches freely online).I'll get back if I'm getting any results with disassembly. I will be looking for a mentioned famous license checking function in it. Don't hold your breath, it could be that it changes to another function number totally different on the MSO7000. I have played a bit with ghidra before. I couldn't do much. The task then was very complicated. I hope this one is easier.

author: normi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2021, 12:40:21 pm
content: Looks like they are changing the license portion of the appEntry, I have seen a similar thing on a later version of the 5000 firmware.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2021, 05:58:00 pm
content: Not likely.@memeruiz,My guess is that the patches were wrong.Are you sure you reflashed the stock FW?Have you re-inserted the licenses via the usual method?If that doesn't work, it means you somehow corrupted your FRAM's pubkey.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2021, 09:43:01 pm
content: Quote from: normi on April 19, 2021, 12:40:21 pmThe mentioned function from here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2233152/#msg2233152I guess is just an address really. Checked on my MSO7000 appEntry file and there is no function there. (As expected, quite unlikely that these two software compilations (one for 5000 and one for 7000) will have the same memory position for all functions). That commentary is not really giving any useful information to find it in the rest of the code. So just do from scratch rev. eng. ...I have to look more into all the comments of that thread to see if I find someone giving more details.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2021, 09:50:26 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on April 19, 2021, 05:58:00 pmNot likely what part?The patches are sure wrong (but it was not a patch really, just a manually modified appEntry version)! It would be working otherwise!Why do I have to reflash the FW? I changed the appEntry file temporarily and then just recover with the original one. No changes anywhere else (except start.sh for sshd).I tried copying the .lic files back again to data dir. but didn't work. I'm not sure if that is the "usual method" .... I will have to look for the "usual method" on the MSO5000 thread probably then.Well, if I changed a bin executable file by hand incorrectly, anything can happen, even corrupting something I guess. But I find that highly unlikely. My guess is that maybe the software detects that something changed in the binary itself and then invalidates all licenses. (like a protection). Not really sure.I didn't play with FRAM. Except maybe your backup script did something bad there, if it somehow touches that.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2021, 08:39:45 am
content: Quote from: memeruiz on April 19, 2021, 09:50:26 pmThe "not likely" was an answer to @normi's post.is a "manually modified appEntry version" if not a patch?The "usual method" is the way Rigol tells us how licenses must be inserted. Have you seen any official method of inserting licenses through copying files in a telnet session?"Well, if I changed a bin executable file by hand incorrectly, anything can happen, even corrupting something I guess. But I find that highly unlikely... Except maybe your backup script did something bad there, if it somehow touches that."With these comments, I'm out.

author: normi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2021, 11:48:26 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on April 20, 2021, 08:39:45 am

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 04:26:51 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on April 20, 2021, 08:39:45 amI used vbindiff between an original appEntry and a patched appEntry for the MSO5000. That way I found the data changed by the patch. Not only the offsets but also the particular changed data and also its context (data before and after).Then, I used a binary editor ghex. This tool has a binary search function. I looked for similar data before and after the patched data in my appEntry MSO7000 file. Then I applied the same changes to the data between. I did a manual patching basically. I have done this before, when files haven't changed much this works fine. In this case the data on the last offset was not that similar on the MSO7000 to the MSO5000.With respect to the licenses thing. I have never inserted any Rigol licenses yet. This Oscilloscope is very new to me. I will be asking for the license updates they are giving now for free, then I will discover this license activation method. I don't know how to do it. I did try to scp the .lic files back to the /rigol/data dir. from my backup. That didn't work. I guess it is not the right method. Didn't know this oscilloscope has a telnet port open (it seems very obsolete to be using telnet for anything now a days).If you are sure your backup script works fine then ignore the message. I was pointing out, it is the only other way I could see any corruption there. I never imagined people could get offended (apparently) by pointing out all possibilities, in technical conversations. I will be more careful from now on ... avoiding getting people unintentionally offended.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 04:31:54 am
content: Quote from: normi on April 20, 2021, 11:48:26 amThe licenses came with the Oscilloscope already. So I don't have any license files, nor instructions to do this license activation. I will be asking Rigol for the free licenses they are currently offering. I will then discover how to do this and I will have the necessary files. I don't know if the .lic files are the same as the "keys" you are mentioning.The build date on the firmware I will send it to you privately, I'm afraid there are eyes around here that could use that for blacklisting me.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 10:37:14 am
content: A bit of more updates:I modified the patchfinder.sh for working in Linux.I ran this script using appEntry_01_01_04_08.bpatch using appEntry.ori.01.01.04.08 against the following appEntries:appEntry.ori.5k.01.02.00.02 Finds proper offsetsappEntry.ori.5k.01.02.00.03 Finds proper offsetsappEntry.ori.5k.01.03.00.01 Finds proper offsetsappEntry.ori.7k.00.01.01.09.02 No resultsappEntry.ori.7k.00.01.02.00.05 No resultsMaybe some things must be tweaked in patchfinder.sh to "search better or more" ....Manually I was able to find most changes against my firmware version (01.01.02.00.06). Except the last binary change. But it didn't work.Is there a newer patch file than this one: appEntry_01_01_04_08.bpatch ?Is there a patch file specifically made for the 7k?I haven't found any on the forums.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2021, 12:13:07 pm
content: Good newsGot my MSO7014 totally upgraded. Thanks to everybody that contributed so many details of the Osc.I had to objdump three files:appEntry.5k.01.01.04.08appEntry.5k.01.01.04.08_patched (with appEntry_01_01_04_08.bpatch)appEntry.ori.7k.01.01.02.00.06With the object dumps I was able to get a better context on the things I was changing by hand. I think the problem from my first attempt was the last 8byte change. It was a bit more different on the 7k than the other changes.patchfinder.sh was not able to find these changes between 5k and 7k. Maybe it has to be tweaked to force a stronger lookup for more far away address. I'm not sure how exactly patchfinder looks for the changes. Find attached patchfinder.sh modifed for linux. You still have to install zsh in linux to run it! You also need binutils-arm-linux-gnueabiCode:zsh patchfinder.sh appEntry.ori bsdiff patch.txt appEntry.newAlso find attached the bspatch for MSO7000 firmware version 01.01.02.00.06 (which is not on the Rigol webpage yet for some reason). It could be that this patch also works for older firmware versions. Please check!

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2021, 11:01:39 pm
content: Thanks @memeruiz, this worked like a charm!

author: mindcrime
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 12:47:49 am
content: Awesome, now I just need to go back through this entire thread, re-read it all, really digest / understand what's going on here, and then I can take a stab at hacking my MSO70204.I'm hoping it goes more smoothly, since I get the benefit of learning from the pains you guys have had already!

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 12:53:23 am
content: And managed to brick the scope. Somehow it didn't persist settings through reboot, so tried to install the latest from the website (v00.01.02.00.06), no change. The patched appEntry from v01.01.02.00.06 doesn't work with that, patching it with the same patch bricks the scope - ssh doesn't come up when it gets stuck at appEntry, at least for me. Now I can't reinstall from the bootloader after pressing "single" on power on, says the package is invalid? Doesn't seem to use the USB really, at least not for an extended time before complaining about the package. Does anybody have an idea?

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2021, 10:25:35 pm
content: OK, not being able to reinstall from the hidden menue was apparently due to a too big USB stick, a 2GB one worked fine in the end. Does anybody have the v01.01.02.00.06 install file?Patch for v00.01.02.00.06 attached, please use bspatch to apply.

author: memeruiz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 03:44:46 am
content: Quote from: drhex on May 02, 2021, 10:25:35 pmAwesome @drhex that you could get your scope working again and upgraded.I'm at a loss with my scope firmware version. It is not on any website for downloading. Apparently is newer than all the downloadable ones.When you applied bspatch, did the patching gave any errors or warnings? (Like patch not applied or failed)The last binary data chunk is tricky. I think the binary asm instruction may change from firmware to firmware because it is a branch execution and the branch address is different. (This is what I noticed comparing with the 5k). Not sure really.I hope this doesn't mean a different binary patch is necessary for each version.

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2021, 05:52:27 pm
content: I created the patch from a diff based on the 01.01.02.00.06 version. The symbols to be patched are the same in 00.01.02.00.06.bspatch didn't complain when applying the 01 patch to the 00 version (think it would only complain if the target file is too small). Bit of a pity that patchfinder.sh doesn't display the actual offsets in the file - may figure that out at some point, I just searched with a hex editor and patched accordingly.My scope came with the 01 version, too - so your original patch was very handy! Don't think the last change is an issue as such as there are no hard addresses in there. Worked without any change for me (but I haven't really looked for side effects).

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 09:02:00 am
content: hi drhex,I had the same problem of the persistance of the settings after reboot,this solves it:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds7000/msg1863522/#msg1863522Quote from: drhex on May 02, 2021, 12:53:23 am

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 11:42:22 am
content: Thanks for mentioning, I did work that out in the end - I did expect this setting to influence scope channel setup but not basics like the IP configuration. Seems it resets EVERYTHING.

author: normi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2021, 12:28:31 am
content: Quote from: drhex on May 09, 2021, 11:42:22 amThe default setting looks like its there to ensure that all scopes will have a standard setting, so if you report an issue support can be sure that they are comparing a scope with a known configuration. The missing feature is to allow you to add your custom setup as an option to boot the scope. You can manually store and load your settings though, sometimes it takes a while to get all the triggering correct for a decode so I have to store the config to prevent having to repeat process.

author: normi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2021, 12:57:52 am
content: Quote from: drhex on May 03, 2021, 05:52:27 pmDid you see jitter analysis enabled under measure > Analyze

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2021, 03:48:52 pm
content: Yes, that is there and can be enabled - it isn't showing any results though (which may be entirely to me not using it correctly).

author: BarsMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2021, 10:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: memeruiz on April 21, 2021, 12:13:07 pmThis week I got MSO7014.I am glad to report that patch files from memeruiz worked with no issues. Factory firmware version was matching.Thanks to everyone involved in enabling this path

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 03:05:15 pm
content: Quote from: drhex on June 03, 2021, 03:48:52 pmdrhexThis is the position were found ourselves in two years (with the 5000 we even had the eye feature accessable (after opening up) BUT non functioning as with the 7000 as well. We managed to stretch the BW upto around 3/4 of a Ghz as well thaks to Tv84One of the reasons I went over to an MSO8000 at that time.The 7000 offers some great features 10G/s, 500Mpt memory, some nifty analysis tools, hdmi output 10 inch screen etc.The chaps in the main lab still use a couple of these, but not for really low noise measurments.Nice to see interested still in this under rated scope.

author: BarsMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 08:28:06 pm
content: Quote from: drhex on June 03, 2021, 03:48:52 pmI can confirm that both jitter & eye are there, but not showing anything for any clock recovery methods.Only histogram is there working as crude jitter tool.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2021, 08:50:08 pm
content: We did some experimentsherewith a MSO5000.

author: BarsMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 09:23:06 am
content: Quote from: tv84 on June 13, 2021, 08:50:08 pmQuote from: Sighound36 on June 13, 2021, 03:05:15 pmOn your screenshots I see that something is working better, than for me...I see measurements of Jitter. Is it not correct, or they are deficient on some way? What settings you used to get these?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2021, 10:44:32 am
content: Quote from: BarsMonster on June 14, 2021, 09:23:06 amI just forced the MSO5000 to 500 MHz BW. Sighound36 did the rest with the settings.

author: normi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2021, 04:18:55 am
content: I have the 5000 and the Jitter analysis works as far as I can see, I am not able to see an issue. The clock is recovered and the histogram works, and the table is filled with results. The Eye analysis does not work, and does not detect clock speed.Why is it reported as not working, also is it possible that the 8000 has some additional files which are missing from the 5000 and 7000 which could be preventing the Eye analysis from working.

author: Sighound36
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2021, 05:07:58 pm
content: I would just check the results on the 5000, this is what we had and it wasn't accurate shall we say (or not what I would like call reliable, repeatable consistently good readings).The 5000 and 8000 boards are quite different, suspect both a bandwidth limitation as well as processing power possibly memory limitation?

author: BarsMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2021, 08:40:12 pm
content: I've noticed interesting sampling artifacts of my unlocked MSO7000.Signal from LeoBodnar's pulser (SMA->BNC) is fed into channel 3 (could be any other), and we enable other channels to enable 2.5/5/10G sampling.With 10G sampling - rise time is 474ps, 10ps std deviation.With 5G sampling - rise time is 459ps (!!!), 15ps std deviation.With 2.5G sampling - rise time is 458ps, and some huge artifacts / jitter (52ps std deviation).It is probably expected that when you feed high speed signal into 2 sampling blocks - everything gets slower. So highest bandwidth is achieved with 5G sampling.But cause of artifacts with 2.5G sampling is not clear.Any opinion?

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2021, 09:30:10 pm
content: Quote from: drhex on May 02, 2021, 12:53:23 amHi All,I currently have the same issue as @drhex.Had the same FW version and used hin patch file. Unfortunately I'm now getting stuck at the boot screen with the loading bar.I tried restoring the firmware with the hidden menu, but it sais 'Upgrading firmware failed, please check the package."I am using a 2gb usb stick as suggested, but no luck. I tried FAT and FAT32 formats.Any Ideas ?

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 09:26:45 am
content: I managed to find and fix the problem.I tapped into the UART port in the device to get the log while updating.Code:Firmware upgrading(Re)start USB...USB0: USB EHCI 1.00scanning bus 0 for devices... 1 USB Device(s) foundUSB1: USB EHCI 1.00scanning bus 1 for devices... 3 USB Device(s) foundscanning usb for storage devices... 1 Storage Device(s) foundreading ds5000update.gel** Unable to read file ds5000update.gel **** Unable to read file ds5000update.gel **0x4000000:0x2000000:fw4uboot.sh:File not found fw4uboot.shError:tar 0x4000000 0x2000000 fw4uboot.shas one can see, u-boot is looking for a file called "ds5000update.gel" even though this is a 7000 and the update file is called "ds7000update.gel".I renamed the file into "ds5000update.gel", the update then preceded flawlessly.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 09:51:57 am
content: Congratulations in finding the solution!If you haven't skipped any prior firmware updates (as the name of the file might have been changed in the boot code), this clearly shows the amount of testing Rigol invested in the firmware update.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 10:34:52 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 01, 2021, 09:51:57 amLet's say that Rigol never advertised the use of the bootloader update menu. Since they must be aware of that part internally, I don't think there is a major error here.BTW, nice find. As I did all my initial researches in the 5000, never had noticed that "small" detail.The name seems impossible to change via update since our opinion is that you cannot update the bootloader via a FW update package (almost sure).

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 10:57:22 am
content: Alrighty, the hack worked on the second try.All options are now enable.That being said, there is another problem.I think you guys all have the MSO7000, whereas I only have the DS7000 (no function gen and no logic analyser). Yet, with the hack, these features are showing up on the UI.I guess one would need a different patch to disable these options.Does anyone have any experience with this ?

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 11:46:54 am
content: Quote from: CookieMonster on September 01, 2021, 10:57:22 amLooking at the patches that are public, I see no way around that.

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 12:50:48 pm
content: You mean there is no way around accepting the generator and analyser UI elements that have appeared ?Are there any links to explain how the patches were created ?Would it be possible that the appEntry executables are different for the MSO and DS models ?Perhaps one could upload the original appEntry of the MSO, so that I can compare it to mine.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2021, 02:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: CookieMonster on September 01, 2021, 12:50:48 pm1. Yes, with that hacking method.2. No.3. The app is the same.

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 01:28:00 am
content: pity.. I guess there is too little demand for someone to make a patch w.o. the the LA and Gen.

author: CookieMonster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2021, 10:10:03 am
content: BTW In case anyone in interested in silencing the D7000..I changed the fan in mine for a Noctua NF-P12 redux-1300.This worked flawlessly, it fits well mechanically and there is no apparent current monitoring like in the DP832 - at least it wouldn't trigger with the ca. 200mW reduced power consumption.I also changed the fan direction, this takes away the whiney noise.It's still audible, but its a much more bearable lower volume and low pitch air flow noise.

author: tom0021
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 02, 2022, 03:53:48 pm
content: There is a new firmware here:https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/wd/MSO7000v00.01.02.01.03from 03.12.2021it has a long changelog:[Supported Model] All the MSO/DS7000 Series Digital Oscilloscopes[Latest Revision Date] 2021/12/03[Updated Contents]--------------------v00.01.02.01.03 2021/12/03- Added average operation in math function- Added CAN-FD protocol decoding (DS7000-AUTO option)- Added SCPI instruction to switch the manual cursor measurement area- Added SCPI instruction to set the contents of the analog channel label- Analog channel labels support resizing and add SCPI instructions- Supported dragging analog channel labels to change positions and adding SCPI instructions- Added SCPI instruction to switch the measurement threshold setting mode- Delay and phase measurement supported edge event setting, edge support first, last orautomatic, and added SCPI instruction- Supported changing the cursor position by inputting time or voltage- The storage depth can be modified in the stop state- Updated touch screen driver- Optimizing DC calibration algorithm in self calibration- When zoom is on, the cursor function will measure the extended time base by default- Fixed the problem that the probe ratio parameter is invalid for the search function threshold setting- Optimized the waveform of XY mode- Supported turning off the display of the source channel of the math waveform- Modified the identification instability of RP7000 series probe- Improved WebControl web page refresh speed (related to network speed)- Optimized WebControl web page control, supports dragging and drawing rectangles with the mouse- Supported modifying labels and file names through the physical keyboard- Optimized bandwidth frequency response @1MΩ input impedance- Supported the connection communication of T2R1000 probe adapter- Optimized the digital filtering function in math function- Modified the problem that the network printer cannot printHas anyone already tested this version?

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2022, 12:45:35 am
content: Ok, had a quick look at 00.01.02.01.03, the signatures for the patches are still there, albeit in different places. Have patched one tonight but not tried yet, will post the patch here provided it works.

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2022, 05:46:11 pm
content: After a bit of rigmarole (seems gel_pack.sh doesn't produce a working image) I can confirm the patch still works, locations have changed of course.

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2022, 10:51:12 am
content: @cookiemonster Different issue, tried again my end, this is about the formatting of the USB stick, probably the lower blocksize on the smaller sticks. So DSO7000 behaves differently from MSO7000 apparently.

author: GurljoM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 09:05:31 am
content: Quote from: drhex on March 05, 2022, 05:46:11 pmFigured it out based on your previous patch and confirmed the assembly code changes in Ghidra. Works great on the scope too.Tha appEntry changes for FW v00.01.02.01.03 are:offset values1810B4: 00 00 A0 E11810D0: 00 00 A0 E137BE0C: 00 00 A0 E137BE28: 00 00 A0 E142FA30: 00 00 A0 E1 01 00 A0 E3See attached the patch file.Cheers

author: IW4EGX
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 26, 2022, 02:38:49 pm
content: Hello,a DS7014 is going to arrive in my Lab in the next days....i've purchased it new but i don't know what revision of firmware is loaded in the oscilloscope until it arrive.Is there a way to unlock Bandwidth and Memory Expansion?thank youNicola

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2022, 10:53:24 am
content: Hello,I've prepared a 1 click patch for the latest fw 1.02.01.03 using the details fromGurljoMand the automatic patch script frommablThe procedure is pretty straightforward:-Upgrade fw as normal-Copy the content of the rar file into the usb stick, and "upgrade" the fw again: the screen will turn white, press "Menu off" button (I tried other buttons but they didn't work). You should see the details of the patch being applied.Done!P.S. It is similar to what omgoleus didhere

author: toybuilder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2022, 07:59:35 am
content: Thanks for the easy-to-use patch, @wat!As @cookiemonster mentioned already, the patch results in the system running as a MSO7000 and turns on the soft buttons for the Logic Analyzer and the Signal Generators that are not on the DS7000. If you activate them through the soft buttons, otherwise hidden LEDs turn on for those features!When I performed a self-calibration after the patch, the self-calibration process failed while working on the non-existent Logic Analyzer. Since I had already calibrated my unit after the initial firmware update, it is not clear to me whether it is running with the calibrations data stored prior to the patch, or if the second self-calibration process correctly set up CH1-CH4 before failing calibration on LA. So far, it looks like it is at least correctly calibrated. For anyone else with a DS7000, I suggest running the self-calibration immediately after the firmware update, before the patch.I'm glad your patch works with FW 1.02.01.03, as that added support for using the keyboard to set the label names and print output file names! That was a key feature that I felt was missing with earlier firmware.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2022, 03:03:49 pm
content: Rigol likes to advertise fast waveform update rates for their DS7000 and DS8000 series scopes. They have several videos on Youtube showing how well it works. It does seem to be second only to Keysight. But if one looks closely, all the videos use 10 ns/div time scale and there is a note in the datasheet saying that 600,000 waveforms/sec is specified only for 10 ns/div time scale. So, the question is how fast is the update rate at other time scales? There is evidence that it maybe is substantially slower, even for shorter time scales.For comparison, here is a table from a Keysight app note on the update rate in their 3000-X series scopes:1 ns/div - 20 ns/div 960,00050 ns/div 570,000100 ns/div 340,000200 ns/div 170,000500 ns/div 74,0001 μs/div 38,000

author: JehTeh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2022, 03:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on August 12, 2022, 03:03:49 pmWhen I was messing around with this yesterday on my MSO8204, I noticed the following (waveform rate was captured using a second scope on trigger out. Trigger source was a 10M signal on Trig IN. All measurements single channel enabled).- At 10ns/div, auto memory (scope sets 1kpts, 10GS/s): ~700k/s- *any* other timebase I tried (auto or 1k mem) (200ps - ms range) - 110k/s max- At 10ns/div, manual 1k memory (scope drops to 5GS/s): 110k/sIn fact I can never seem to get above 110k/s except in that explicit first case, where it jumps to well over 600k. I also noticed that when running in 'fast mode' there is the occasional long dead-time where no triggering occurs - you can see seconds worth of ~700k/s triggers on the other scope then a 'long' (100's of ms) period where nothing happens.This strikes me as somewhat strange. I didn't spend more than 20m playing with it, but my initial, very probably unfair, reaction is something along the lines of 'is this just a special path Rigol has in here for advertising?' - not saying it is the case, I don't have enough information yet, but suffice to say I am going to be emailing my rep shortly for further clarity because it strikes me as very strange. I fully understand there will be lots of cases where the scope won't be hitting 600k+, but as it is it looks like someone spent a lot of time either optimising for just a single path or there is a bug somewhere in other modes (very, very possible - despite the price of the CAN decoder for example it is pretty buggy, albeit still quite usable).

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2022, 06:26:51 pm
content: I've confirmed with Rigol tech support that DS7000 has the same "feature", only 10ns/div scale gives 680,000 wfs/sec update rate, any other time scale it is at least 5 times slower.To me the most interesting question is how they managed to speed up the firmware for only one horizontal setting but not others? It's like making a car that can drive 5 times faster on only one road.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2022, 06:37:53 pm
content: Quote from: maxwell3e10 on August 17, 2022, 06:26:51 pmMaybe that's the only real HW rate the scope works on. All others are calc/emulated in software.

author: maxwell3e10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2022, 07:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on August 17, 2022, 06:37:53 pm10GS/sec*10 nsec/div*10 div =1000 points. The display is 1024 pixels. So it could just write horizontal scale directly to display. I am wondering about anti-aliasing/bandwidth limiting filters though, seems like they would be more time consuming than simple scaling.

author: luky315
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 01:33:17 pm
content: Comming back to the self-calibration issue: Does someone have informations what the failed self calibration after the "liberation" patch means? Are the analog channels still correctly calibrated, even if the logic analyzer part fails?

author: Wong
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 13, 2022, 02:25:31 pm
content: The new firmware version v00.01.03.00.01 has been released. I don't know whether it can be hacked.https://www.rigol.com/products/detail/MSO7000v00.01.03.00.01 2022/12/08- Provides the VNC remote control function- Optimized response speed for controlling vertical gear offset- Optimized response speed for controlling horizontal time base migration- Optimized the trigger Settings menu physical key response time- Control the real-time response of the cursor position- Cursor measurement supports simultaneous measurement of two sources- Manual cursor measurement supports multiple cursor display types- Manual cursor mode Allows the cursor to move according to the waveform- Multi-function knob can be pressed to switch the adjustment of cursor A and cursor B- The cursor indicates that the color changes with the source color- Manual mode cursor measurement added dual channel source Settings menu- Changed the Delay Scan (ZOOM) mask color- ZOOM mode supports cross-area measurement of the cursor- Latency Scan (ZOOM) function on and off response time- Optimized waveform movement speed in the delayed scan (ZOOM) area- Improved waveform display brightness- Changed the color of analog channel CH4- Measure any edge add modification- Improve reset instruction *RST response rate- Improves the response rate of the clear command- Improve the response rate of measurement instructions- Improve the command rate of waveform export- Webcontrol Adds the function of exporting screen and memory data

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2023, 07:49:45 pm
content: Hello, I've been away for a while from his forum... Did anyone make a patch for the latest fw?

author: carlos33193
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 09:49:02 pm
content: Anyone have an update on this for MSO7000? Latest firmware. Thank you!

author: carlos33193
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 06, 2023, 10:08:52 pm
content: Quote from: wat on May 14, 2022, 10:53:24 amYour patch worked beautifully easy on firmware 01.02.01.03. Even though my Rigol came with this firmware already it was failing the checksum in your patch script, downloaded the 01.02.01.03 firmware from previous post link (https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/wd/MSO7000) and flashed over and then re-ran your script and it succeeded checksum and restarted with all options. THANKS!Any chance you could make this auto flasher for the latest 01.03.00.01 firmware?

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 08:17:34 am
content: I wish it was that simple: I can generate the batch, but I need from someone the details on which bytes to patch

author: luky315
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 02:08:53 pm
content: Now they have the v00.01.04 MSO7000 Firmware

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2024, 08:57:05 am
content: Link to download the 1.04 FW:https://www.rigol.com/products/detail/MSO7000(Using chrome to translate into English helps a lot...)

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2024, 01:29:54 am
content: Will have a look next week.

author: Wong
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 17, 2024, 02:44:50 am
content: DS7000(ARM)Updatev00.01.04https://kdocs.cn/l/csXWKvRt3y9D

author: drhex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2024, 11:32:24 am
content: Did open 00.01.04 up fall last year. Same patch still applies. Just look for the byte sequences with a hex editor and replace.

author: wat
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2024, 09:07:00 pm
content: Quote from: wat on May 14, 2022, 10:53:24 amDone the same for FW 1.04, easier than I thought to compare the patch.. thanksdrhex

author: carlos33193
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 22, 2024, 03:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: wat on April 20, 2024, 09:07:00 pmWorked perfectly! Thank you!

author: BTO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2024, 11:12:38 pm
content: PUTTING FORWARD AN IDEA....Over on the MSO5000 side of things we also started on the patched hacking method.Then DrMefist0 gave us the python script to license the scope permanently ... AND IT WORKS !!Now i have noticed this the list of ALL OPTIONS in the python script is hereQuoteand in short what the script basically does is...- it interrogates the scope- it looks at what options ARE AVAILABLE- it looks at what options are UNAVAILABLE- it looks at what options are INSTALLED- it then installs the AVAILABLE and UNINSTALLED OptionsSimple as that- yes it does some probing on Model number, Serial Number etc- BUT IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE THIS SCRIPT WAS WRITTEN TO CATER FOR MSO5000, DS7000, MSO7000and a stretch for a possible MSO8000However if the MSO8000 was to be included then this list would have to exist in the script, These are all the options availableto 5000, 7000 and 8000Quoteso i'm wondering 2. things1. Can this script just be run with an MSO7000 and work ? it seems like it could2. Can the script be made to cater for the MSO8000 ?I really think it will work on a 7000 (Although i haven't tried it) and ... I don't think it'll do anyharm to tryas we have had people running the script on the MSO5000 and in certain circumstances the script as a result of the scope modelor installed Options at time of purchase (even though uninstalled with the script) the script chose not to activate the scopeand left the scope unharmed in every caseI don't know about the MSO8000 Just yet, But i do think some of you guys should take a crack at running the script on the MSO7000because if you did you'd never have to worry about patching your scope again and you'd just move forward with legitimate updatesfrom the rigol site as they came out .I'M JUST PUTTING THIS OUT THERE.... What are your thoughts ?