US ups the ante against Huawei - Google blocks Huawei's Android updates - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:46:14 am
content: Interesting times - a significant escalation...https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/19/google-huawei-trump-blacklist-reportGoogle say they are complying with a government order - but perhaps there's also a bit of payback for being frozen out of China? They wouldn't admit that of course.This will be pretty damaging in the short to medium term for Huawei's smartphone ambitions; in the long term I guess it will be a question of how much, if any, support China/Huawei can muster from other disaffected parties to develop, or at least accept, a commercially competitive Android alternative?

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:51:44 am
content: More FUD from the media againThe android operating system itself is open source and no one can prevent you from using it. At every update Google publicly releases a code dump and it's up to the vendors to integrate their own hardware specific code into it. The body of the article makes it clear that it'sGoogle Playservices that is in question here. Huawei phones in China (actually all phones in China) already ship without Google Play so most vendors already have their own alternative "app stores".

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:55:38 am
content: So Google will loose about 25% of it's customers in europe in the short term.

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 04:17:36 am
content: For sure, they would be able to compile the OSS variants of these apps but they are not able to get an API key from google which means they would be useless (Google Maps/Assistant/GMail/Search etc.). Also google will no longer get data by default by the ~20 or more services which phone home to google for Ad customization etc.This is also intersting for Apple and other corporations which build in china and use chinese parts and now are unsure if they can no longer produce from one day to anotherw without warning. If they are responsible companies some of them will leave the USA because it's too risky staying .

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 04:42:40 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 20, 2019, 03:52:01 amFrom a BBC article:". But if Google releases a new version of Android, Huawei won't be able to offer the update on its phones"

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 04:45:03 am
content: Quote from: Bud on May 20, 2019, 04:42:40 amOnly if it stops publishing the code dump releases and effectively close source android.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 04:49:57 am
content: To butt in, it would actually be interesting if this were the environment to cause a truly open and configurable mobile operating environment, like what Ubuntu and KDE have been trying (sort of) for years.It's not going to happen, Android might be too big to fall like that, but I just think it's an interesting potential.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 07:05:56 am
content: Meanwhile ->Infineon suspends shipments to Huawei"....Infineon’s annual sales to Huawei amount to $100 million or less ... "Curious who will fill those Infineon's hole ? Japanese or Korean ?

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 07:30:52 am
content: Quote from: Ampera on May 20, 2019, 04:49:57 amThe old Nokia achieved something like that with their N9 running Maemo, I know I have two of them and one is my main cellphone.SSHing into it, SCPing files etc is a breeze because it looks just like a Linux box inside, unlike Android which has no ssh or scp as standard.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:04:18 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 20, 2019, 04:34:33 amAnd Google could ban them completely. And they could play whack-a-mole changing user agent strings as Google blocks them and Google could change the website design to break their parsers and their apps would randomly work or not and nobody would be using them anymore.It's pointless to even try such games.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:14:29 am
content: The US market share of smartphones is less than 10% and shrinking whereas China has 29% and growing.China has three times the market all by itself and the rest of Asia is huge and growing. I do not think Google (America) can force the world market to use Android by force but by being convincing. If push comes to shove I do not think Google will come out on top.Code:Country millions shareChina . . . . 782.8 . . . . . . 28.8%India . . . . 374.9 . . . . . . 13.8%United States 251.7 . . . . . . 9.2%Russian Fed. . 91.9 . . . . . . 3.4%Brazil . . . . 87.2 . . . . . . 3.2%Indonesia . . . 73.2 . . . . . . 2.7%Japan . . . . . 70.3 . . . . . . 2.6%Germany . . . . 64.8 . . . . . . 2.4%Mexico . . . . 59.6 . . . . . . 2.2%United Kingdom 54.7 . . . . . . 2.0%France . . . . 49.6 . . . . . . 1.8%Philippines . . 47.9 . . . . . . 1.8%Vietnam . . . . 36.4 . . . . . . 1.3%South Korea . . 34.6 . . . . . . 1.3%Italy . . . . . 34.4 . . . . . . 1.3%Spain . . . . . 33.6 . . . . . . 1.2%Turkey. . . . . 31.1 . . . . . . 1.1%Thailand . . . 30.2 . . . . . . 1.1%Iran . . . . . 28.7 . . . . . . 1.1%Egypt . . . . 27.9 . . . . . . 1.0%Pakistan . . . 27.7 . . . . . . 1.0%Bangladesh . . 26.8 . . . . . . 1.0%Canada . . . . 26.6 . . . . . . 1.0%https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-50-countries-by-smartphone-penetration-and-users/

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:30:14 am
content: Quote from: splin on May 20, 2019, 03:46:14 amGoogle IS the government. Just like all social media platforms and intelligence agencies, its purpose is to track and gather intelligence. Or did you think that all of those insane server farms can be financed with just advertising revenueIf you KISS, you will conclude that this is just USA's new move in the trade war with China.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:37:17 am
content: I believe the only American brand in the top ten smartphone brands is Apple which is, of course, outside this war.Pretty much the whole world is in disagreement with the US in this commercial war. I cannot imagine why anyone would think it is a good idea.If push comes to shove the manufacturers could start a software consortium to develop their own brand of OS.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:47:56 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 20, 2019, 09:16:33 amGoogle will ALWAYS do what the government tells it to do. There might be some staged theatrics and controversy, but in the end, Google will do as it is told, even if it means losing revenue or market share.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 10:44:35 am
content: Quote from: taydin on May 20, 2019, 09:47:56 amI do not think it is that simple. Google will do what the government tells them. Obviously. But the government also knows big business, which includes Google, has a lot of money and power and can lobby very strongly. So, in a way, Google tells the government what it should tell Google.And some might find this completely negative but I find distributed power is better. So let corporations have some power over the government and the government some power over the corporations. Checks and balances.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 11:42:40 am
content: Quote from: soldar on May 20, 2019, 10:44:35 amMy point is that Google's actions in this case are not based on corporate or business strategy. They are based on politics. USA is losing global influence, and China is gaining global influence, and we are seeing USA's attempts to hamper it or at least slow it down.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:14:16 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on May 20, 2019, 09:30:14 amNonsense, servers are cheap. They will share all their data with the government if asked, possibly reluctantly, but all companies follow the law of the land. They do the same when operating in China of course. But they certainly make enough money to pay for their server farms on their own. Or are you suggesting that Dave is also a gov. shill? Or do you think his web server is financed with advertising revenue?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:39:10 pm
content: This whole mess caused by Trump will backfire. Huawei's 5G R&D is two years ahead of the other vendors and they own a ton of 5G patents. And since US companies are barred from doing business with Huawei they can't license Huawei's 5G patents. Oopsie!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: madires on May 20, 2019, 03:39:10 pmThe Huawei's contant harassments and bullies by US, is actually to disrupt it's 5G global market penetration, for US and allies to catch up.But even UK wants Huawei despite being commanded not to by King Trump.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 06:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: apis on May 20, 2019, 03:14:16 pmI'm not suggesting anything about Dave.Regarding Google, though, Google is not like any other high tech company. And you won't find any "smoking gun" type of evidence for my assertion that Google is a "tracking and intelligence gathering operation" working for the state. Intel organizations typically don't leave such proof aroundYou basically see many pieces of a puzzle and eventually a picture starts to form ...

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 07:26:50 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on May 20, 2019, 06:51:01 pm

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 09:47:29 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 20, 2019, 07:42:05 pmI have never had much problem getting around the Great Firewall. I guess they just make it not worth the while for the average Chinese.An interesting case which had me confucious for a while is that maps in China are distorted and considered of national security importance. For some time I was not understanding why my hand-held Garmin GPS coordinates were not aligning with the maps. Then I discovered the whole mess that Chinese maps are.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_Chinahttps://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/https://www.alpinequest.net/en/help/v2/maps/china-offsethttps://www.checkerboardhill.com/2016/10/google-map-distortion-hong-kong-china-border/In fact it was illegal for me to have my GPS receiver with me.It seems to me this is a holdover from decades ago and makes absolutely no sense today except that they would have to undo the mess they made and this might make a bigger mess.I know I could use Google Earth in China without problem but now I ask myself if I was being redirected to local Google Earth servers with the distorted information.In these days of satellite ortophotography and Google Earth it is plain stupid to obfuscate your maps.But, interestingly AFAIK Google Earth still works in China although few people know it use it there as there are other map apps with better local info.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 10:13:10 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 20, 2019, 10:07:07 pmThought if anyone would get the joke it would be you.

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:15:48 am
content: "Microchips, massive blow: Huawei's vulnerability explained"https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48345509

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 03:32:30 am
content: QuoteThe RF frontend chip (2) is an integrated PA and LNA, it's fairly old technology and wouldn't be hard to replicate. If they are able to design the rest of the transceiver then this part is the least of their worries.Not sure what (3) is, but it might be a diplexer/SAW filter. These are predominantly made by the Japanese, the US is not a big player here. I'm also already seeing Chinese SAW filters on LCSC with better specs than the common ones on the western distributors, so probably not a big deal either. I have already started using Chinese SAW filters in my designs and am aiming to replace all US based RF parts in the future.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 03:46:44 am
content: OK, I didn't see that image the first timeSo (3) is QM77031, another big PA chip with integrated RF switches and diplexer. That thing is huge and looks like you can replace it with discrete parts (separate PA and filter) in the same space.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 08:30:00 am
content: A story from BBC news showing both sides of the board and listing the semiconductor manufacturers likely to be affected...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48345509It looks like:- HiSilicon (China - owned by Huawei)- Skyworks (US)- Qorvo (US)- Micron (US)- Hynix (Korea)Hynix and Micron are obviosly RAM and Flash so may be multi-sourced anyway.Oops: Duplicated news story.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 12:27:57 am
content: google can go to hell,plenty of other app-stores, map sources etc.here is a good one:https://f-droid.org/if things really get bad, they can drop android and port Sailfish. (Linux)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 06:53:45 am
content: The problem is that when you remove Google from Android you're left with something else.You can't access any google service, since you do not have an api key. And you cannot request end-users to subscribe for their own api key.That means you lose a lot of apps! Google... Chrome, Mail, Maps, Translate, Home, Play and Youtube or probably more.Some you can get away with rolling your own, as Microsoft did in their Android competitor.But when the user has to login, it basically ends.It's like running Windows CE, remember that? The stuff that's behind your car nav or ATM, where the only default tool installed is Notepad.Yes technically it's Windows. But it's not really usable for end users anymore.The first thing people here do when they buy a random chinaphone of Aliexpress is sideload the play store to get all the official apps.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:46:50 am
content: US government gives Huawei three more months. My guess is it will probably give them three more and then three more ... It is just posturing.QuoteI think that trade wars are bad for everybody, including bystanders, but all this will only accelerate the rise of China and the sinking of the USA.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:52:25 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on May 22, 2019, 06:53:45 amMaybe the time has come to think globally and have phone manufacturers come together and develop an open and neutral OS which cannot be hijacked by the terrorist du jour.I will never use Android or any other software that requires me to log in and give them all my info. No way I would do that. If there was an OS which was neutral and not spying on me I would not mind paying for it.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:53:20 am
content: Well, maybe in real estate dealing or bargaining, you can use the lowly trick of bluffing 1st, and then invite to talk, with the impression of having a much superior position in the talk.Nope, this wont work in international strategic political scenes, as if you bluff too rude at the wrong party, (hope not) that a missile is probably already on it's way.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 08:19:14 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 22, 2019, 07:22:07 amThe end user sideloads the Play store and installs the GApps package.Then you register your uncertified device.

author: stj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 08:50:25 am
content: or you use a 3rd party browser, email client etc,use bing or yandex maps,use other app-stores,google has most of you fooled into thinking they are the only ones who can do stuff.infact with regard to maps, you should always use offline maps like Osmand.because a connection is never 100% - specially in the middle of nowhere.lets talk chips - in regard to sanctions.qualcom, huawei has now developed it's own BETTER cpu.broadcom - never liked their policy relating to drivers/tech data - ask the raspberry pie/Linux community. they can be dumped.what other complex u.s. made chips are in smartphones?

author: FreezeSSC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 12:32:41 pm
content: ARM cuts off Huawei, this seems like a big move.https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/22/18635326/huawei-arm-chip-designs-business-suspensionI'm expecting a big response from Chinese government, they wont be happy about this.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 01:01:32 pm
content: Yep, never ending provocations.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 05:41:12 pm
content: Next victim: Hikvision (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/us-reportedly-considering-blacklisting-chinas-hikvision.html)

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 05:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on May 22, 2019, 07:46:50 amMy fear exactly. This could evolve into a WTW 1.I believe that Poincaré once said something along these lines: "The easy part of a war is starting it. Winning it is the hard part."And stretching the WW1 analogy a little further, the World may be completely transformed, with unintended outcomes, after all the smoke has settled.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 06:46:07 pm
content: To be fair the US is only controlling our own companies, not telling other countries, directly, what they can do. However I think it'd be better if the US stopped bothering with other countries so much. Think about the time and money savings however that doesn't fit the border free country some are going for, it's all or nothing so don't think this is just a single administration issue. It can only get worse.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 06:50:48 pm
content: Quote from: madires on May 22, 2019, 05:41:12 pmThanks to this thread, i learn new technology companies names.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:06:54 pm
content: Dahua actually makes quality gear for a low price. It doesn't try to upload hundreds of mb, as Foscams do.But their professional line is probably what's bothering the us.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:45:14 pm
content: Chinese drone manufacturers could be the next target.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48352271

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 07:49:47 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on May 22, 2019, 06:46:07 pmNot at all. The USA is telling foreign banks and other foreign companies what they can and cannot do on foreign soil.Just an example,a Spanish company doing business in Cuba is being sued in Florida under the Helms-Burton act.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 08:05:16 pm
content: And how do they enforce that? If we have no form of enforcement then they're simply saying yes to a request. To clarify infineon, softbank and Meliá also aren't countries

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 08:22:12 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 22, 2019, 08:15:03 pmRight so they're only threatening the domestic side, because that's all they can do. Again I think it's stupid but it's negative for both sides if they don't comply and the US follows through. This is one of those times I think everyone would be happier if we had a smaller government.In addition to being a waste of time and money it's not like the Chinese are going to just give up and give in. They'll find a path forward either way. It's really quite pointless.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 08:26:25 pm
content: If any other country had extraterritorial laws that affected the USA in the same way the USA would go nuts about it. No other country in the world has this arrogance.Quote

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 02:53:43 am
content: Well China did block the Qualcomm acquisition of NXP a few years ago so you can say they have the same kinds of power...

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 07:24:27 am
content: Huawei is already Gold member of the RISC-V foundation.https://riscv.org/membership/1745/huawei/

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 01:33:53 pm
content: Latest news:Allegations of stealing trade secrets from CNEX Labs:https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/22/18636237/huawei-cnex-trade-secrets-lawsuit-eric-xu-accusation-trial-hearingAnd the financial impact of the threat of US sanctions on Hikvision and Dahua:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-22/china-surveillance-tycoons-lose-billions-as-u-s-tensions-rise

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 02:27:57 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on May 22, 2019, 08:26:25 pmNuts, doubtful. More likely you find a carrier strike force sitting off your coast ready rubblize the offending area.This whole exercise is nonsense. Glad to see my ebay stuff from China still seems to flow in as it always has.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 09:13:31 pm
content: There is a Pulitzer-winning book, the Guns of August, which explains how in 1914 the European super powers, eager to show who had the largest dick, walked into a trap where the only possible outcome was declaring war.All the while, the smaller nations watched terrified from the sidelines, hoping that the conflagration would not affect them.We all know how this ended.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 10:58:03 am
content: And more news:Huawei can’t officially use microSD cards in its phones going forward:https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/24/18638539/huawei-microsd-card-sd-association-us-trump-banHuawei temporarily restricted from Wi-Fi Alliance, voluntarily withdraws from JEDEC organization:https://mobilesyrup.com/2019/05/24/huawei-temporarily-restricted-wifi-alliance-withdraws-jedec-organization/Trump says Huawei could be part of trade deal:https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48392021So it's clear what Trump's intention is.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 12:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on May 23, 2019, 09:13:31 pmMost, if not all, wars start because of an escalation of threats, very often economic in nature, where both sides think the other side will back off and finally both have no other option than to go to war. Once you have riled up your people into a frenzy it takes a war to sober them up again.It is very easy to excite a people against something, especially if presented as a threat, be it internal or external. It is much more difficult to get people to support constructive projects. People, like bulls, use their heads to charge and not to think.During both world wars Spain was quite isolationist and managed to stay out of the wars and do good business selling to both sides.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 08:17:34 pm
content: Microsoft pulls Huawei laptops from its online store.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 09:52:02 am
content: Huawei reinstated to SD and WiFi associations list of partners:https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/05/29/huawei-reinstated-to-sd-and-wifi-associations-list-of-partners/

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 03:38:48 pm
content: IEEE, a major science publisher, bans Huawei scientists from reviewing papers:https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/05/ieee-major-science-publisher-bans-huawei-scientists-reviewing-papers

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2019, 04:26:32 pm
content: Yes yes and IEEE will continue happily charging them membership fees.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 05:12:17 am
content: Naughty Brits ?Trump reportedly will threaten to curb intelligence sharing with UK over Huawei

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 05:41:44 am
content: Naughty Germans ?Pompeo to press Germany on military spending, Huawei, Nordstream on delayed visit

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2019, 05:59:49 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 31, 2019, 05:52:53 amSimple, he and few top Pentagon officials are just expecting a really nice retirement packages, probably includes family members too, from those dudes at "Industrial Military Complex", its been many decades and it worked nicely.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 06:49:51 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 31, 2019, 05:12:17 amMeanwhile, at one of former British colony ...Malaysia says it's using Huawei technology 'as much as possible'

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 07:56:07 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 06:49:51 amIs that the same Malaysia with 18 Sukhoi Su-30 and 13 Mikoyan MiG-29 in its air force ? ;-)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Malaysian_Armed_Forces

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 08:06:42 am
content: Seems like Huawei are ready to launch their own OS.https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/huawei-our-own-operating-system-could-be-ready-this-year.htmlPanasonic are still delivering components to Huawei it seems;https://www.reuters.com/article/us-huawei-panasonic-china/panasonic-says-on-its-china-website-it-is-supplying-huawei-normally-idUSKCN1ST0B4

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 11:49:09 am
content: Quote from: techman-001 on June 01, 2019, 07:56:07 amLOL, I'm not sure what are you trying to imply here ? Malaysia is pro Russia country ?Btw, did you read the "full" list of fighter aircraft planes they own ? Or you just read what you 'wanted" to see ?Hint, just in case you still can't see it, and another clue if you still miss it, watch closely the plane body painting.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 12:13:56 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 11:49:09 amWe in Australia were annoyed when they bought the Su-30 because it has 3.75 times the range of our Super Hornets which means it can bomb us and still has the range to return to base, while we do not. Don't get me started on the F-35 range and cost!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 12:38:20 pm
content: Quote from: techman-001 on June 01, 2019, 12:13:56 pmDuh .. now its derailed into war planes.Ok, my last post regarding war plane ... just two words ... incompetence and corruptions.Facts and facts only (just google up your self as I'm lazy) :- Decades and billions of US dollars spent for the F-35 research project, still it doesn't even can fly safely, its not like doing difficult maneuver, or in fighting mode or using other advanced features (firing, missiles, stealth etc) ... just plain normal flying and safely without crashing, how hard is that ? C'mon, its not like we're living in Wright Brothers era, aren't we ?- You Oz are screwed, badly, I mean at the F-35 deal, even their own mighty US Air Force is forcefully grounded "tons" of their newly F-35 planes because of lack of spare parts from the plane's manufacturer. It feels like buying Wung Hung Lo's plane isn't it ? But the stupid thing is, its way-way more expensive.Buying a Rigol cheap low-end scope with the Rohde-Schwarz's high end price, that fits in really nice as an analogy, and no support nor spare-parts.Regarding corruption, my gut feeling on the "entity" in Oz, who "decided" to buy F-35 must be rich by now.Look how smart Turkey insisting on buying Russian S-400 missiles, instead of US offering that the missile is inferior compared to S-400 and way-way more expensive as above Rigol's analogy, funny thing is US is also threaten Turkey not to ship the F-35 planes as they agreed, if I was Turkey gov, I would demand the money back and cancel the deal knowing above facts.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 12:45:06 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 12:38:20 pmI can't argue with you in this post.My apologies for my off-topic post to the OP, it won't happen again

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 12:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 12:38:20 pmNo kidding, we have developed our own "Gripen" planes here in Sweden but we can't sell them, even to ourneighbours.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 02:44:40 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 01, 2019, 12:49:46 pmThat is not unexpected, really, and also it will not be a big surprise too, should someday your PM will receive a called from someone in White House saying probably similar to this conversation tone ..."Hoyyy dude .... stop playing with that toy plane of yours, and what you called it again ? The "Grieving" right ?Set a date soon where both our teams to sit down and talk about your F-35 order, ASAP ! ... Remember, buy F-35 .. OR ELSE !" ... <phone hang up> ... and sounds like the phone was slammed on the other side.No offense please, especially to Swedish people, but this is how I see the possibilities with the current situations and conditions.Damn, you've just dragged me into the plane talk again.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 03:40:01 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on May 31, 2019, 05:52:53 amNot a bad idea. That way the assimilation would be complete. And we could be free of the fear of having to live to support the easy, luxurious and expensive lifestyle of a small privileged elite of idiots who think they know what is "best" for the rest of us "plebeians".Power to the people!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 04:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 01, 2019, 12:49:46 pmYou sold some far south though, but I think they are a little hard to service here.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 06:12:43 pm
content: So, to recap, America shuts off Huawei because they could, possibly, maybe, have a back door in their products even though no evidence of such thing has been found. In the meanwhile Intel and AMD processors incorporate known back doors. How is that OK?

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 06:36:37 pm
content: You know, it is okay when US of A is doing the spying, scaming and data mining. Noone else can do it. Understood?

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 06:54:06 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on June 01, 2019, 06:36:37 pmIt's always been "might is right" ask Ghengis Khan or Alexander the Great?I for one am very glad Australia and the USA are on the same side! (more or less)

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 07:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 01, 2019, 06:12:43 pmI think it's just part of Trumps strategy when negotiating with China.I believe that Huawei cellular patents and equipment are in widespread use worldwide and just 'pulling it out' would result in serious communication problems for many countries, so whilst Huawei remains banned in some countries, their existing gear is still likely to remain plugged in regardless.I'm guessing that eventually the USA and China will sort out their trade issues and Huawei will suddenly be found not to have spying capability and un-banned as a result.In the meantime I note that my Huawei Redmi 1S has no problems accessing the Google Play Store from Australia.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2019, 07:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: techman-001 on June 01, 2019, 06:54:06 pmI don't think "America first" includes Australia, even if the US and Australia have a special relation (like everyone else). Do you think Australia will benefit from aglobal depression?

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 07:17:23 am
content: Quote from: apis on June 01, 2019, 07:16:33 pmSure! My father was a Depression era child and he told me that the Depression years were among the best time of his life.Seriously tho, what *I* think won't change anything.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 12:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: techman-001 on June 02, 2019, 07:17:23 amThat's true for most people, certainly for me, but can still be interesting to hear other peoples perspective on things.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 12:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 02:44:40 pmNon taken, that is how it works basically, although they use bribery more than threats I suspect. So it's more like "How would you like being the nextSecretary General of NATO(or other high status international job) and maybe a few million richer? All you have to do is..."Quote from: BravoV on June 01, 2019, 02:44:40 pmsorry, couldn't resist

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2019, 12:48:08 pm
content: For all the talk of Trump, lets not forget all this has major bipartisan support.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2019, 07:54:55 pm
content: "The Trump administration had discussed placing tariffs on Australian aluminium, which, under a deal struck by former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull, remains exempt from tariffs Donald Trump placed on metal imports to the US in 2018.The NYT reported the White House decided against making any changes to the Australian arrangement after defence and diplomatic advisers cautioned against any actions which could potentially alienate a key ally in the Asia-Pacific region."https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/03/scott-morrison-plays-down-report-us-planning-tariffs-on-australian-aluminium

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 03:06:43 pm
content: CNN ->China's Huawei will build Russia's 5G networkNot sure what to think that whether ...Russia is stupid enough to trust China, or they are confident that Russian own experts capable of detecting and kill any backdoor in the 5G system if any, as this also means that US top electronics expert working for US gov still do not have the ability or smart enough to discover any installed backdoor ? As todays no single proof ever surfaced.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 03:22:28 pm
content: Let it be a lesson that there are untapped huge markets where companies may move their buisiness to.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2019, 09:02:40 pm
content: Problem with Huawei is not that it has Chinese backdoor. Problem is that it doesn't have USA backdoor..

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 03:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 06, 2019, 09:02:40 pmLOL spot on.Actually, if the US want Huawei to provide the backdoor, as requested as spec, auditable and fully thorough transparent system to US Gov, I guess its not a big deal for huawei, isn't it ?Suspect its more than that, as big money is involved, like this ...Reuters :Europe's 5G to cost $62 billion more if Chinese vendors banned: telcosI guess Europeans especially NATO members should pay the mafia money style to US that making the 5G system way way more expensive, instead of buying directly from Huawei. A price to pay as US lapdog.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 04:39:21 pm
content: Google is reportedly arguing that cutting Huawei off from Android threatens US security:https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/7/18656163/google-huawei-android-security-ban-claimsOr it's just the fear of a declining market share when Huawei will roll out smartphones with their own OS (Android fork?). Google would lose Asia's big market, Europe partly, and emerging markets like Africa.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 06:01:14 pm
content: Google can't use fragmentation of the market, apart from lost profits the Apple behemoth is hard enough to fend off as is.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2019, 10:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 06, 2019, 09:02:40 pmSo they feel the need not bother with the updates as there won't be any backdoors to update or change.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 01:18:16 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 01, 2019, 07:08:38 pmDo I look like I care about Trump? He is a politician. You do not support a politician. You always check what they do.But we have to recognize that he's doing a good job at curbing China with their attempt to export yet another crappy product: dictatorship.QuoteThat's not the point.Since you are an Eastener, you probably have a difficulty in understanding that the words dictator and dictatorship have a bad connotation in the West.Although the West has had a fair amount of them around, you should know that the West always see dictators through the lenses of a telescopic sight.QuoteEquality doesn't mean everybody wearing Mao's suit and carrying a copy of the Little Red Book.It is about the abolition of social classes.And power to the people means to limit the use of arbitrary power against its citizens.But, heck, why am I discussing politics in an electronics forum? Electronics is my refuge against the stupid political rhetoric. I hate politics!Please, hold my beer, while I barf.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 08:56:27 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 08, 2019, 05:58:16 amYou still don't understand what equality is all about. It's not about earning the same salary or having the same car everyone, or stupid things like that. Not a long time ago people were thought to belong to classes, like the aristocracy, the clergy, the plebeians, the slaves, and there was a set of theories to support these inequalities, like for instance, claiming that monarchs had their privileges because it was the will of God or that there was something essentially special about being an aristocrat that someone born a slave would never have.There's nothing special about Queen Elizabeth II, Donald Trump, Xi Jinping or any other person invested with ruling power. They're just human beings prone to make mistakes just like me and you. And that's precisely why we have to have an eye on them.If the Chinese people are too feeble to control their leaders, this role will go to someone else. Pray that it be not Trump.QuoteAgain you don't understand that democracy is not about the ability to vote. I have already proved to you that you find completely antidemocratic countries where their leaders are elected. The failure to realize that makes your speech to become part of the same hypocrisy you said the US is practicing.QuoteThis reminds me of the Victorian XIX Century. We're already in the XXI Century.QuoteOf course it doesn't.QuoteBullshit. If you were very satisfied, you wouldn't be trying to make inroads in other countries like you admitted you do.QuoteIf I promise to see a doctor, would you stop repeating your dictatorship ideology like a parrot in the forum?Thank you very much.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 09:11:34 pm
content: The last half century of "free trade" was a disingenious mess sold to the west based on lies.The elite thought that as long as we had free trade with dictators they would mellow out and join the free world, that it weakened the political power of the west a bit was a nice bonus as well. The globalist elite thought they could more effectively rule the world the weaker sovereign governments became. They were not only disingenuous though, they were also 100% wrong (though they have yet to admit it, even to themselves). Instead of progressive trading partners in exchange for the loss of indigenous industry we got Putin and a bellicose China trying to use gunboat diplomacy and economic warfare, helped along by the WTO which was explicitly designed by the elite to weaken the west.Free trade has failed ... as dangerous as isolating our enemies is when they have nukes, it has turned out to be the right option all along. Better than having our enemies getting us by the balls through dominance of the supply chain on top of nukes. Whether Trump has any inkling of this or is just operating on whim, he's pulling our asses out of the fire.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 09:37:46 pm
content: Marco you need to do a sanity check as to who is using "gunboat diplomacy and economic warfare".

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2019, 09:51:19 pm
content: The US's military displays in the Pacific have in recent history been a show of force to protect the borders of its allies, not to try to force annexation of natural resources as in China's case. The whole humanitarian intervention racket Clinton&Obama engaged in or the needless Bush war are unfortunate too, but two wrongs don't make a right.The WTO enabled mercantilist economic warfare on the west needs to end ... and Trump is our best hope for accomplishing that. The west being forced into one sided free trade with an ideological enemy which practices mercantilism is retarded. Maybe it could be justified when there was still a belief it would align China with the west, but that hope is gone. They are an ideological enemy, they will remain so.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 12:59:50 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 12:08:39 amYou get an indigenous supply chain and the inability of China to exert economic pressure on you. We don't want to get into a situation where China can exert the pressure on us which the US is now exerting on them.All the industries China wants to dominate with it's massively subsidized Made in China push are not industries we should allow to be hollowed out in our nations. Competitiveness is besides the point, this is about security and power.Trade was supposed to align us ideologically ... it didn't. All it's become is a tool of war, in which we're just surrendering ... thank god for Trump, may he drag the EU along kicking and screaming.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:17:06 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 01:08:03 amInsecurity about natural resource supply chains, the desire to hang on to hegemonic power, the desire to prove superiority etc etc.Lets say China gets a dominant military and economic position in the world, how long before they start "negotiating" for the Senkaku Islands?PS. Made in China 2025 was conceived during the Obama administration. China's trade policy has been mercantilist for decades.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 01:24:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 01:15:11 amIf one side is mercantilist and the other is politically free, the politically free one loses all know how in the long term ... and then they're fucked. That's why trade isn't politically free.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:17:08 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 12:20:25 amI don't know.Youbrought up this Chinese-are-not-equal thing.QuoteI did. Back in 1989, when I saw it on TV.Man, it is like it had happened yesterday, but it has been 30 years now. Wow! Times flies.It showed to whole world that the Chinese people are not stupid.QuoteSpoiler alert: these images are censored in China and any new photos or footage of the massacre are confiscated by the Chinese government, showing that the problems about which the Chinese people were protesting back then still go on in the present.QuoteThe dream is over and you're going back to reality. You need to rationalize the situation with some excuse and a friendly shoulder to cry on. We understand.Good luck with your new life.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 08:35:23 am
content: Empires in decline, like alpha males in decline, are dangerous because they do not want to accept the new order and want to retain their supremacy. This leads to them fighting instead of gracefully stepping down.Today we can look back and realize that France's wars (and atrocities) to retain their colonies were doomed from the start. But at the time the French thought they were not giving up their empire without a fight. After the French, America thought they could do better in Vietnam but also failed.America is just not accepting the idea that it is no longer what it once was and that is dangerous as they will start wars, commercial & military, which will only speed up the decline. It is like the alpha male trying to retain its position.Today America is the greatest threat to peace and stability in the world. It's like the drunk old man at the bar that remembers his glory days and now wants to pick fights but sane people just avoid him.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 03:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 03:41:09 amIf so, why does the Chinese gov't censor these images? Even the ones taken by Chinese photographers? After all, these protesters were all "agents" of CIA, weren't they?It would be a good initiative of propaganda to exhibit what malice these "traitors" caused to the whole nation.But, no. They're censored because they crudely show how brutal and inimical their elite is.QuoteI'm not sure if being a citizen of the US is a privilege. What I know is that having the power to curb the excess and corruption of the those in charge is a real privilege, no matter where you live.QuoteBecause perhaps the CCP is interfering with the internal business of other countries that you are not aware of.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 04:33:53 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 09, 2019, 03:09:56 pmYeah. That would be nice. Unfortunately this does not happen anywhere in the world. We, the common people are told we can vote and influence government but in fact it is just an illusion. There are so many layers and so much influence that the vote of the average Joe is worthless. The country is run by the powerful and the corrupt. They sell you the idea that you count but in reality they handle things.There are plenty of things that the common people want by a wide majority and the Government does not do. It is extremely easy to manipulate public opinion. And that goes for any country.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 04:50:33 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 09, 2019, 03:09:56 pmIt was reported as a massacre here in Sweden at least. Naturally all the protesters couldn't have been agents.Makes me think of the Independence Square incident in the Ukraine. Although in that case they deposed the sitting democratically elected president. And what about the recent military coups overthrowing the democratic government in Thailand?Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 09, 2019, 03:09:56 pmAgreed, without carefully created checks and balances you end up with a tyrant sooner or later (pretty soon).Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 09, 2019, 03:09:56 pmIs there much evidence of them interfering except spying on and harassing dissidents?The US/EU doesn't exactly treat dissidents nicely either, look what's going on with Assange (no matter what we may think of him, how he's being treated is a travesty). But you can't really compare China/US since power is far from equal.The question is what would happen if China established a new global hegemony. Would the regime crack down hard on all opposition and the elites enrich themselves on the behalf of the common people to the extent we see today (i.e. how different would it be for ordinary people)? Replacing one group of crooks with another isn't going to change anything, just cause a lot of bloodshed.Personally I think it would be better to have many countries that cooperate friendly through the UN rather having one superpower trying to strongarm the rest of the world into submission.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 04:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 01:28:27 amOppressed in what way? China wanted to trade with them and their allies. Not allowing completely free access to their markets and goods is oppression? That's a completely retarded view from my classical liberal mindset, freedom of association is infinitely more important than free trade from my point of view.Regardless, if mercantilism is a-okay ... Trump's trade negotiations are just par for the course. If you don't intend to be the better man, just play the game and stop whining about it.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 05:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 08, 2019, 09:11:34 pmSold to "the west" by who, it's the US that's been pushing the globalist free trade agenda pulling EU screaming and kicking with it, forcing small countries into servitude through draconian free trade agreements. Of course, nothing of this is done for the benefit of the "common people". But it's not black and white either, international trade really do benefit everyone and reduce the risk of war. Trump will not end the push for globalism and free trade, he just want to bludgeon China (and EU/Canada/Mexico) into submission to appease his audience. What the globalists are unhappy with is Chinese protectionism, they want their multinationals to be allowed to trade on the huge Chinese market.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 05:51:34 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 03:41:09 amThe new kind of cold war is started, imo.Its not like the previous one between former Soviet (USSR) vs USA, the chance of nuclear incident was just 50/50, as opposing side had only one adversary, USA vs USSR.Now, its USA vs ... Rusia, China, North Korea and Iran probably will joint the pact too, this makes the "chances" of one of state leader turning into itchy finger to ignite so called ICBM incident is getting muitiple folds compared to previous cold war.Interesting development also happening to Venezuela, as Rusia and China already publicly show their support to Maduro, instead of the CIA's puppet. As Venezuela geographically close to North America, and also Rusia already sent too many military aids, last rumour is the assistance against the country power outages caused by hackers, and who knows what else Rusia and China are now talking and agreeing regarding this matter as both leaders are seems to be hugging warmly as China premier visit just few days ago.Also as US unilaterally pulled from the mid range missile treaty with Rusia. Coincidentally, from Venezuela, you don't need ICBM to reach anywhere within North America. Cuba crisis reboot in making ?Interesting time and era indeed.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 07:55:06 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 09, 2019, 05:19:53 pmAmerica was for free trade when and while it benefited from free trade.I believe free trade benefits everybody and protectionism harms everybody.IMHO America is making a grave mistake going down the protectionist road.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 09:44:05 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 09, 2019, 08:35:23 amThe problem is that the alternative is not any better.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 10:01:44 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 09, 2019, 05:19:53 pmMexico specifically isn't being targeted that I know of. They agreed to do "something" about the illegal immigration problem we have(I haven't read up yet) so as to not be subject to the tariffs that were proposed recently.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2019, 11:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 09, 2019, 05:51:34 pmIt would still be suicide for any of them to try anything, nukes can at most serve as a deterrent."NATO countries account for over 70% of global military expenditure, with the United States alone accounting for 43% of global military expenditure in 2009."(1)Since then Trump has forced NATO countries to increase military spending by at least $100 billion(2)(as if 70% wasn't enough). In 2018 the US spent 650 billion, China 250 and Russia 61.(3)If one calculates the sum over the last few decades the difference is even more extreme. Any talk about Russia or China being a military threat to NATO is fake news.________(1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hegemony#Political_science(2)https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_164519.htm(3)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 12:47:48 am
content: Quote from: apis on June 09, 2019, 11:57:26 pmWhat you don't appear to have included was that NATO countries are supposed to spend 2% of GDP on military spending in most cases. Also in most cases countries were NOT doing what they agreed to while the US has spent more while also having a much larger GDP to begin with. You don't have to agree with the spending targets but this is actually the issue that our president was supposed to have.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 12:45:21 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 10, 2019, 12:47:48 amThe US spends that much because they want to wage war around the world, the rest of NATO doesn't want that. NATO was formed as "protection" against the USSR, and today maybe Russia. Russia has increased spending dramatically and is now up to a whopping $61 billion.NATO (excluding the US) is spending in excess of $400, and soon $500 billion thanks to trump. That is just plain stupid. There are better ways to spend that money than on military toys.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 03:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 09, 2019, 10:00:31 pmWhat China managed to be up to now is a cheap half-assed clone of the US, with an unchecked government, less individual freedom and a lot of dependency on the West.Good luck with your rivalry.QuoteYou are talking about the delusion that the Chinese government massacred thousands of protesters, all of them civilians, that were demanding the end of corruption within the Communist Party, democratic reforms, freedom of the press, freedom of speech and freedom of association?Yea, I think you're right. Some pictures, taken from a specific angle, really give everybody in the world this kind of delusion.To the memory hole with them!But, why censor all? Why not clear the non-delusional ones?QuoteSo, what you're basically saying is that the character of the Chinese people can be bought for a price? Hmm. Now everything makes sense. This explains Trump's tactics.QuoteNot on the third rock from the sun.QuoteSo you admit that you do interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. Thank you for being so transparent.And since you invited US money into your borders, they're doing what, according to your moral code, is right: interfering in your internal affairs.Case closed.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 04:45:58 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 10, 2019, 03:09:57 pmI am glad you consider your case closed because your post is totally meaningless and does not deserve any response.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2019, 10:23:34 pm
content: Vodafone is using Huawei to roll out 5G in SpainVodafone Spain announced that it has started the pre-commercial deployment of Non-standalone(NSA) 5G network in central areas of Madrid, Barcelona, ​​Seville, Valencia, Bilbao and Malaga, using the 3.7Ghz band.Following the 5G spectrum award last week,Vodafone Spain in collaboration with Huaweihas deployed more than 30 5G antennas in the different cities.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 04:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 10, 2019, 04:45:58 pmThis reply is intentionally left blank.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 05:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 10, 2019, 09:12:43 pmWho is accusing the Chinese of violating patents?QuoteSo, say goodbye to the Western market.QuoteWhat Trump wants to stop is the Chinese worn out rhetoric that China is an underdog being oppressed by the hypocritical and evil USA. China has been converted with the generous help of the West into a big player.Now you'll have to play by the rules of the game.QuoteSo what you're saying very candidly (thank you again for your honesty) is that in China truth must be sacrificed for the good of the CCP?You ended up making the West the guardian of the truth about the nature of this party.QuoteYou don't expect me to be so naive, do you? If China invests in a country and suddenly the government of that country decides not to honor the expected profit, of course you're going to lobby someone "sympathetic" to your interests in that government.This is political interference.QuoteIf "China protects their current governments", China is interfering politically.China can easily convert a democracy into a de facto dictatorship with a puppet dictator as their "leader" (who will obviously open the front doors of the country for China to do what they see fit) by giving massive support for this "democratically" elected leader who in turn will incarcerate or exile any opposer to this regime, just like China does at home, with the aggravating fact that, since the people of this country are not Chinese, China simply doesn't care if this state of affairs cause a catastrophic bout of violence, injustice, famine and disease for this people.The bottom line is: The US are a menace? Fair enough. But, so is China.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 12:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 12, 2019, 10:19:09 pmOf course it did. The consequences of striking even one American carrier group would be dire. Beijing is way too sane to even contemplate doing that.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 06:22:32 pm
content: Nobody is going to start any shooting wars. This conversation is just getting silly.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 05:10:49 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 12, 2019, 10:19:09 pmWell, your "leader" invited them, remember? So blame that on your "leader".And I bet my bottom dollar that China is doing exactly the same thing in countries where China received an "invitation" from their "leader".QuoteVery well. None of this western truth rubbish. Let's stick to the absolute truth of the numbers.Thousandswere massacred by the CCP in Tiananmen in 1989, but the CCP would very much like to wipe that out from the books of history.Hundreds of thousandsof Honkongoners have recently protested against arbitrarities of the CCP.The truth of the numbers say that the CCP is a political body that has no scruples to lie to its own people.QuoteLed? I would be very much ashamed to be part of a nation that would state publicly in its constitution that they areled. On the other hand I'd be proud to belong to a nation in which its citizens are sure they are leaders.You're not going to replace the US as a leader until you remove this ridiculous clause from your constitution.QuoteBut you're not allowed to question, criticize or check it. This means that it is very easy to defeat China. Just neutralize the CCP, and China is yours.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 05:39:56 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 13, 2019, 06:13:04 pmThis is no advantage against the US. They can declare a State of Emergency and become a temporary "dictatorship" for the time of the emergency.Dictatorship in times of peace is a stupid regime that has the only aim to favor those in power.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 05:58:15 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 14, 2019, 06:33:56 amYou'd make a fine apparatchik, posting arguments for the alleged superiority of your favorite regime that are that delusional and dumb. By and large countries with western-style democracy and associated freedoms are the most productive and wealthy per capita on earth:http://statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp-capita.phpThere are some anomalies in rankings of course (eg medieval Arab shit holes rich with oil), but they are the exceptions, not the rule. I really fail to see how we in the west (by any sane projection) are going to have to give up much of our freedoms so as to curb being surpassed by China any time soon.If "Western democracy" doesn't have "nearly" the economic efficiency of China, as you, assert, then why does it rank so poorly in terms of any gauge of per-capita wealth? Huh? And BTW, you'd be pretty fucking daft to attribute the rapid rise in Chinese wealth post 1989 to the crackdown, purging and suppression of liberal elements within the Chinese government and to blame where the country currently stands on Western oppression.QuoteMost people not having some kind of serious deficit in some critical faculties would fault the US for not having engaged another nuclear power. I don't know what your point is supposed to be regarding your gloating over Korea and Vietnam either. When the death toll and economic destruction for each side is tallied up there is hardly a victory over the US to be celebrated, except maybe in the head of a dogmatic ideologue. But you are right on one thing - the US wouldn't tolerate the idea of having half its population wiped out. You seem to be entertaining the idea that the CCP wouldn't be similarly concerned, but celebrate this as a superiority!

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 06:35:18 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 14, 2019, 07:37:48 pmIt's pointless arguing with a true believer, but that statement is particularly deluded. As with China, it's Red Capitalism which has transformed Vietnam, which would still be wallowing in the mire that it was bombed into had it stuck to anything true to it's ideological communist roots.And BTW, the CCP is an oppressive authoritarian government. It is corrupt to the core, which is how authoritarian regimes operate. No corruption = no CCP. The CCPs fundamental cronyism and ongoing denial of basic human rights only retards and stifles China's progress - not the opposite; making it vastly superior to the systems of western democracy, as you so stupidly suggest.And BTW #2, all authoritarian regimes sink eventually. Those student protesters back in '89 spooked the Chinese government and had more of an influence over it than most give them credit for. China's poverty was and still is its major trump card as a player in the global economy. That's why f-ing everything is made over there - cheap labor and poor worker/environmental rights (etc, etc). It is only in the CCPs self interest to permit economic development to progress at a rate that keeps the general population for the most part content. They needed a big boost in the decade post 1989, but this "happy" state of affairs isn't going to go on forever, culminating into some kind of western democracy-surpassing commie utopia that you are having grandiose delusions about. With wealth China's competitive edge will sink and the cronyism of its government and its human rights abuses will do nothing but simmer internal discontent and further discredit the countries standing on the global economic stage.https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/review-essay/2017-06-13/dirty-deeds

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:39:28 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 16, 2019, 06:35:18 amTrue. Of either side. This board leans against China only because the people who post are from other countries, not because they know anything about China.Quote from: GK on June 16, 2019, 06:35:18 amIt is about as corrupt as your average western government. The notion that western governments are democracies that limit themselves to do what the people want is cute but laughable. Pretty much all governments and leadership of groups is based on the leaders convincing the followers that they will be doing good. It has nothing to do with morality or with reality. Contrary to what many western people like to think, the Chinese people are not clamoring for the right to vote. They are mostly enjoying an economic expansion that other countries can only dream of.Quote from: GK on June 16, 2019, 06:35:18 amAll regimes sink eventually, authoritarian or not. America is sinking like a stone while China rises fast. We are seeing the decadence of America while most of us will not live long enough to see the decadence of China.

author: Tepe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 07:48:16 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 07:39:28 amIt may look that way from Spain but Spain is not an average representative of the West:https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 08:23:37 am
content: Quote from: Tepe on June 16, 2019, 07:48:16 amWho said anything about Spain?America has plenty of corruption going on and, what I consider worse, what I would call "structural corruption" which is not what you normally call corruption. But when you elect a bunch of people and then those people are pretty much bought and influenced by the powerful with lots of money we generally do not call it corruption, we call it democracy in action or "the US Congress" but to me it is a corrupt system.Corruption to me is not only someone taking a bribe, it is also a system that is working as designed but is inefficient because it is very badly designed and the people running it are incompetent but they keep the system that way because they benefit from it. Unneeded bureaucracy to me is corruption. They keep it in place because it is their living. To me that is corruption but it is not considered corruption by most people. People get outraged by bribes but structural corruption is just as bad and maybe worse because people do not identify it as such.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 10:31:20 am
content: I generally find these arguments tiring and fruitless. Most people who have radical and simplistic views about cultures other than their own are generally people who do not know those cultures except as filtered by their own culture. People who have lived in another culture, who speak the language, who relate to the people and who take the time to think and study a bit have much more informed views and much better balanced.I have rarely met a westerner who had lived and worked in China for some time who had those simplistic and radical views. It is always people who know little who think they know all. Like teenagers.In some aspects America is a great country. In many other aspects it is a terrible country. The same can be said pretty much about other countries.In many ways China is a great country. Just because they have a different political system does not make them bad. It makes them different. That's all. Preaching to the Chinese that they have an inferior political system is about as effective as preaching to Americans that their own system is corrupt and about all the other many things that are so very wrong with America.We need much more understanding, much more learning about others and much less pontificating about the supremacy of our own culture.The us versus them mentality does not lead to anything good.Regarding Tiananmen my feeling is that I am never happy when some people suffer, for whatever reason. But my feeling at the time and it has not changed is that if China had not cracked down it would have led to a free-for-all like happened in the Soviet Union. If you compare Russia and China, China comes out way ahead.China had the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in their recent history and it was better not to tempt fate again. I think time has proved the results were good.Some countries and cultures do better with authoritarian governments but we insist on preaching and imposing "democracy" with the zeal of fundamentalist preachers. It gets tiring for everybody.You can argue that in China some people are oppressed and it is certainly true and I do not like anyone being oppressed. America has the highest per capita prison population of any country. By a big difference. Instead of preaching to China they would do well in trying to understand why America is a sick society, a violent society, that incarcerates people at absolutely crazy rates.China is a different culture and a different country. We judge them harshly while we overlook our own shortcomings.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 04:51:25 pm
content: https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/13/17938170/us-police-shootings-gun-violence-homicidesAmerican police shoot and kill far more people than their peers in other countriesAn American is 1500 times more likely to be killed by police than a Chinese.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 03:12:32 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 10:31:20 amOh-boy! never before have i seen so many excuses fortotalitarian dictator shipas your post hypocritically hiding behind one straw man after another. Well, you just exposed your self being full of radical simplistic views on other cultures constructed out of your own extreme filtered though culture!Scholars on Chinese History have over and over noted China are a defacto Han controlled, Han designed globalistic Technocratic World Order implementation.This thread is full of politics, why have it not been locked?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 03:41:12 pm
content: China are a defacto Han controlled, Han designed globalistic Technocratic World Order implementation. ??Um, OK, I guess.What is your view on the statistics I posted above?If I may ask, what is your knowledge and experience with China?

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 04:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 14, 2019, 06:33:56 amOh, my God! Wikipedia is deplorable!For the record, I don't watch Fox, Vox, Bloomberg or the like, much less pro-CCP channels. I don't have time to this nonsense.QuoteRead below.Quote from: blueskull on June 14, 2019, 07:37:48 pmCommunism is a Western ideology.QuoteYours fight for elections too. It does whatever necessary to be the party of "choice"--the only choice--for the Chinese.That must be expensive.Quote from: blueskull on June 14, 2019, 06:33:56 amThe First Amendment was adopted in 1791, so your government is 226 years late. Moreover you cannot mobilize the population to demand freedom for the people and a moral behavior from the government. In democratic countries this can happen without disrupting the country, because democracies do not rely on "leaders" or parties to exist.Nevertheless, everytime we point out a problem in China, you reply saying that China has adopted something similar to what the West adopted long ago. This makes us conclude that everything that is good in China comes from the West.QuoteChina's "efficiency" is sponsored by the West.QuoteAnd this is not what you and the whole China have been doing the whole time? If you really have the balls to fight the US, nuke 'em already.That'll be an awesome spectacle to watch.You don't even have the balls to make quality products.Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 07:39:28 amFirst of all, this board is not against China. We are just amusing ourselves pointing out the contradictions in the arguments that try to justify China's misdeeds.So let's check your assertion.QuoteSo the CCPIScorrupt. Who says that? The West? No. The Chinese. Living in China, immersed in the Chinese culture. We don't need to live there to be 100% sure that the CCP is a filthy political body. The Chinese keep telling the West about that the whole time.The difference is that in the West corruption is seen as a problem, and it really is. So democracy was devised to try to curb it. Some countries are more successful than othes in applying its principles.Whereas, at least according to blueskull's account, the Chinese arePROUDof the corruption in their government. And they are willing to defend its corrupt ways, and I quote, "no matter what, where, when and how."China is not the answer for the world. They are, according to what we can conclude by bluskull's depiction of the country, a problem. A big problem. A problem the world has to deal with.QuoteThe people at Tiananmen were clamouring for democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of association and the end of corruption in the CCP.Who said that? The West? No. The Chinese. Living in China, immersed in the Chinese culture. We don't need to live there to be 100% sure that the that's what the Chinese want. The Chinese keep telling the West about that the whole time.QuoteThey are mostly enjoying an economic expansion that other countries had a long time ago.QuoteThe Nazis said the same thing.Quote from: blueskull on June 16, 2019, 08:58:25 amIf it's legal it's not corrupt, by definition. If you do not agree with the law of lobbying, you canlobbyfor its revocation. But then you have a paradox. How can you lobby for the end of lobbying, if you have to use lobbying to revoke lobbying?This paradox is solved when you have a dictatorship. But then, since you do not have any legal means to have a law of your interest passed, you have to appeal solely to bribery, which is illegal.That's why the CCP is the great prostitute it is (according to the Chinese themselves).Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 10:31:20 amAs I said above, China's problems are confirmed by the Chinese. So there's no point in trying to justify them. No one of us need to live there and try to understand their culture. It has already been done by the Chinese themselves.By the way. There's no East anymore. What you understand by the East are just foreign accents of the West. This is no supremacist preaching. It is a consumated fact.The world is the West. The West won. The West brought the end of Absolutism, brought science, industrial revolution, freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of conscience, freedom of association, excelence in all the arts, and an unprecedented raise in the standard of living for the whole world.No one wants to live like a traditional Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Native American, African, Middle Eastern, Indian.Everyone wants to live like a Westener.Some Chinese are even undergoing plastic surgery tolook more like Westeners.The Chinese think they're different. But they're just one of us.Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 04:51:25 pmThis is because the CCP doesn't send the police after you. They send the PLA. Ask Tianamen protesters (if you manage to find one still left alive).

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2019, 06:19:37 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 18, 2019, 05:49:05 pmHa, ha. No need.I am just curious about the backgrounds of the people with such narrow views about other cultures.I have lived and worked extensively in several countries and I speak several languages. I was raised bi-cultural and bi-lingual. I was taught to try to understand that different cultures have different values but even one culture will change values over time.I find it very, very arrogant to say "my values today are the only good ones, the values of other cultures and the values of my culture in the past are all hogwash".Most people who are so arrogantly pigheaded about their ideas are generally very limited in their life experiences and understanding.American authorities kill and incarcerate people at rates that are totally out of proportion with any civilized country and yet that is overlooked because they have "elections". I have dealt extensively with the authorities in both China and America and I know what it is to be terrorized by those with the zeal of knowing they are doing the work of God himself.In any case, it does not matter one bit. The Chinese are not going to change one bit their life and culture just because a few jackasses on the Internet tell them to. Not any more than Westerners are going to change their lifestyles because people in other cultures think they should. Pontificating is a waste of time. It might feel good but leads nowhere. Especially when westerners preach to countries that have suffered the aggression and pillage of western imperialistic countries.Zealots who know they have the truth exist in every culture and are the enemies of everybody. Let us try to live and let live. Trying to understand and bridge cultures is much more productive and a little humility always helps.ETA:QuoteI really wish we could show more humanity towards our neighbors instead of preaching to people around the world. America's health indicators are pretty bad. Life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 02:39:03 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 18, 2019, 05:49:05 pmAnd apparently neither did China, who ditched communism in favor of capitalism as soon as they could. Good riddance.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 05:15:29 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 18, 2019, 04:56:24 pmBy the way you sound, youhatedislikeuncomfortable with colored skin aren't you ?How about gun powder and compass ? Western civilization, or your ancestor to be exact, raised to it's glory as today you're enjoying, such as conquered/colonized other nations and lands for centuries using above items, btw, its not just "Eastern" technology, more precisely its a "Chinese" technology.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 08:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 19, 2019, 02:48:34 amDo you call this communism? I think it's called Keynesian economics. But I may be wrong.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 08:29:07 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 19, 2019, 05:15:29 amI'm not racist. I'm just saying that everybody perceives the benefits brought by the West and gladly adopts their lifestyle.QuoteGood point. Westerners don't feel diminished because they adopted paper, silk, gunpowder, compass, China ink, china (porcelain), Sun Tzu, feng shui or spring rolls.We can even go further to recognize how indebted the Westerners are to the Middle-Easterners who invented agriculture, cattle raising, writing, accounting, math, geometry, astronomy, the wheel, cars, metal casting, plaster, bricks, square-walled houses, streets, distribution of drinking water, collection of sewage, postal systems, public administration, etc., etc., etc., without which the Europeans would still be hunter-gatherers just like the Neanderthals before them.But when we show how the West has helped to improve life standards in the East everyone freaks out.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 10:13:30 pm
content: We all owe everything to Africa, when all is said and done.... the cradle of life...For every human cell in your body, there is slightly more than one microbe...Has anyone asked the microbes what they think?? They are the majority!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 10:36:38 pm
content: What is the purpose of this Topic?I'm really confused. There are 5 people from all around the world trying to explain one person that seems from USA that world is not what he thinks it is...And they can' because he is certain that he is right and they are wrong.It is like trying to convince religious person there is no God by appealing to his logic. You can't do that. His belief is dogma, ingrained from earliest age, repeated and repeated until there is no grain of doubt. It is not a fruit of logical thinking, and cannot be argued.There are many people from USA who have that same (religious like) attitude that only way is USA way, and USA is allowed anything. USA is not recognizing International War Crimes Court, USA can single sidedly impose sanctions on countries etc etc. If you don't like it, just remember, USA is the only country that dropped nukes on other country. So yeah USA is global bully.There are many people from Russia with same attitude, and China, and Germany, and Croatia. Only they are right, everybody else is wrong...Arguing with such people goes nowhere. They are right, you are wrong. You will never change them.Just choose to speak with people from USA, China, Germany or whatever that are not like that.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 03:42:25 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 20, 2019, 10:36:38 pmOh, no. These five people convinced me of a lot of things. They convinced me that the rumors I heard about China are true. China is a megalomaniac country governed by the corrupt CCP whose aim is to subjugate the whole planet under their ruthless tyranny.Before this thread I had a more favorable view of China. This is how I saw them:Now, after the enlightening conversation with those five interlocutors, this is how I see them:

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 07:03:42 am
content: LOLXXXis a megalomaniac country governed by the corruptpoliticianswhose aim is to subjugate the whole planet under their ruthless tyranny.If you replace XXX with USA it explains really well what has been happening for the last 50 years in the world....Except instead Agent Orange, today we have Orange Menace...

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:45:27 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 03:42:25 amCute, vulnerable and exploitable, am I right ?

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 01:53:33 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 21, 2019, 05:06:25 amThe right word is alarmed. I'm not scared because, despite its size and power, China doesn't inspire respect.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 01:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on June 21, 2019, 08:45:27 amShe recently advocated for the independence of Taiwan before the whole China, but was forced to recant by the Chinese Inquisition. She has a lot of brains (and balls).

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 02:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 21, 2019, 07:03:42 amLet me help you with your argumentation. China is a menace. The fact that you show me the US is also a menace doesn't prove that China is not. So my argument still holds.If you didn't figure out yet what this thread is about, I shall elucidate it for you. Some people are trying to smuggle the idea that China is a better alternative to the West. What I and others are showing with facts is that this is bullshit. Not only China is as harmful as they say the West is, but they are also a downgraded version of it. China has to improve in many areas of their society to start to gain some admiration. For the time being, they are a joke.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 03:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 02:19:09 pmAnd again if you write your own sentences like this, they also hold :Let me help you with your argumentation.USAis a menace. The fact that you show me theChinais also a menace doesn't prove thatUSAis not. So my argument still holds.If you didn't figure out yet what this thread is about, I shall elucidate it for you. Some people are trying to smuggle the idea that USA is a better alternative to therest of the world. What I and others are showing with facts is that this is bullshit. Not only USA is as harmful as they say the China is, but they are also a downgraded version of it. USA has to improve in many areas of their society to start to gain some admiration. For the time being, they are a joke.Fact is that USA has been doing all kind of dirty tricks over the years to stifle the competition, to topple governments where it made money, that they keep starting wars after which they infiltrate countries they "liberated" instilling puppet governments that sign contracts with USA that put those countries in de facto colonial position etc etc.Those facts are reason that USA is last country in the world that should point fingers to countries like China and Russia. They morally don't have that right. They forfeited that right by being master assholes of the world.It doesn't mean that Russia, or China or whatever are not guilty of some things. It's just USA is worse and should at least have decency not to be biggots and asholes.P.S. USA, Russia, China in this context represent internal and external policies of countries mentioned. Good people living in those countries are not to blame. They are just living their lives best they can. Most of them don't care about politics and just want to live decent lives and to ensure good lives to their children.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 03:25:03 pm
content: Can't we all just get along? People, can we just get along?

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 04:18:29 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on June 21, 2019, 03:06:24 pmLet's suppose I'm a criminal. You commit a crime. Because I am a criminal, despite witnessing you do it, I can't point fingers to you?What happened to turning state's evidence?QuoteYes. When we are referring to countries or their people we are talking about them as institutions. I'm not a racist or a supremacist as some here tried insinuate.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 04:39:01 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 04:18:29 pmAll they know is what they see in media. If you don't hate the USA you're branded a racist these days. At least people following mainstream media reporting which is chock full of outright lies.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 04:40:14 pm
content: Is it hypocritical for the pot to call the kettle black? Or is it merely stupid? And, who ever saw a talking pot?Is it hypocritical for America to accuse others of doing what America has been doing? Yes, yes it is because America is not looking for the evil to stop, it only wants to have no competition.My prediction is that in the long run America will suffer more damage from this than China or Huawei.European countries have already said they will be using Huawei in deploying 5G. My guess is not many countries will follow the USA in this if only because of the economic cost.America is isolating itself which is a very bad policy. No country, no matter how strong, can take on the world. The greatest strength of countries is in its allies and the USA is alienating its allies badly.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:13:23 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 04:40:14 pmYeah, it all boils down to economic cost, doesn't it? It doesn't matter why the cost of Huawei equipment is lower, does it?Would you agree that competition in the marketplace is good? I certainly would. But for competition to be good it also must be fair. Take this scenario: Cisco spends tens of millions of dollars developing firmware for their networking hardware (switches, routers, etc.). Huawei comes along and spends zero on FW development, because they copy Cisco's FW literally verbatim. Of course they can then sell their networking equipment at a lower cost than Cisco because they didn't spend millions on FW development--they stole it. Do you think that this kind of "competition" is in any way fair?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:17:24 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 05:13:23 pmYou have proof of that? Because I'd like to see it and I am sure others would like to see it too.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:32:33 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 12, 2019, 10:19:09 pmThis so-called "help" from the West was pure stupidity and greed on the part of companies in the West. Essentially what we did was trade all of our engineering and manufacturing know-how for a temporary source of cheap labor. In the mean time, the Chinese have been stealing and copying our technology and will eventually compete with us using our own technology against us. This is no different than selling guns to your enemies during wartime.QuoteInteresting how your constitution has the CCP built into it, but that's not too surprising since you don't have elections or any other way to replace the CCP with an alternative.QuoteIt chooses to "play nice and peacefully" as you say because it knows that without the West pumping billions (or is it trillions now?) into its economy, China would just dry up and blow away in the wind. China is much more dependent on the West than we are on China. After all, there are plenty of other countries with dirt-cheap labor for us to exploit.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:37:52 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 05:17:24 pmThere's plenty of proof--just go look and you'll find it. I've seen it myself... Several years ago a friend worked at a company that had some Huawei networking gear and he showed me an ACSII dump of the firmware on this stuff. The dumb fucks at Huawei didn't even bother to change the Cisco copyright messages embedded in the FW they stole.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 05:32:33 pmA lot of people had faith in Capitalist Peace ... especially rich people who instinctively distrust government because they fear anyone with more power than them. It certainly helped that globalization increased their power relative to states to make them believe in it, but at least they believed they had honest intentions.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:12:54 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 05:37:52 pmNo you have not seen it and I am not going to go looking for something I do not believe exists. Your assertion, yours to prove. Sorry.I will go further. I do not believe it is true because if it were true the EU would be all over it but instead they allow Huawei to do business as normal. Furthermore, if it were true that Huawei's products were infringing intellectual property Cisco and the USA could very easily sue them for that which they are not doing. Have the USA or Cisco made a specific accusation about this? I would like to see it.And it is interesting that Huawei would copy IP regarding 5G when it so happens Huawei is ahead of western companies when it comes to 5G. They are copying things that are in the future? Because that would be quite a feat.The accusations do not hold water and have never been made formally. It is all innuendo and unsupported fake news which the gullible wish to believe.The truth is American companies are behind in 5G technology and this is just trying to get them some breathing space so they can catch up. That is what this is.Civilized nations may have disagreements and for that they set up international arbitrating bodies. Civilized nations value that system and respect its rulings. America has decided to say "FU" to the world and has, in fact, become a rogue nation. Everybody, but most specially America's friends, is telling America it is making a mistake in going rogue. But the Stable Genius has decided to upset the balance without regard to damage or consequences.America is saying "America first, America only and fuck the rest of the world, might makes right." Um, OK for now but you might be sorry in the long run. You are driving your friends and allies away. If China shows they are more stable and more reasonable the rest of the world will take their side. Nobody likes to sit next to an unstable weirdo that you have no idea what they might do next.In all this matter it is China who appears to be responsible and grown up while America throws a tantrum and European countries look at each other and wish the tantrum will end soon.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:27:19 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 05:37:52 pmDon't get me started on Huawei. They are more evil than you think. Copying firmware is a piece of cake next to other things I saw them doing. If they represent China's character, man, the world is screwed big time with these guys around.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:39:30 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 21, 2019, 05:27:14 pmI didn't say I do not respect power. I said thatChinadoesn't inspire respect. They're doing something that is annulling the effect that their apparent power should cause on people. So, why should I be scared of something that can't even inspire respect?Nevertheless I am alarmed that such a country is considered by some as an innocent victim. China's agenda is no different than the US's or Russia's, as some have pointed out, so China should be treated with the same "deference" that other "evil-to-the-core" countries deserve.If it is fashionable to bitch about the US, then it must be equally positive to kick China in the butt every time the occasion presents itself.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 08:12:54 pmI couldn't care less if you believe what I saw or not. I know what I saw, and the circumstances under which I saw it convinced me that it was real.QuoteCourt cases involving infringement are often settled under terms where the defendant doesn't admit guilt and settlement is kept confidential. Doesn't mean the infringement didn't happen.Here's Cisco's response to one of these suits:https://blogs.cisco.com/news/huawei-and-ciscos-source-code-correcting-the-recordandhttps://blogs.cisco.com/news/cisco-suggests-huawei-release-court-report-on-intellectual-property-misuseThere are other examples.QuoteRight. Just go right on telling yourself that while you stick your head in the sand.QuoteIt's not that at all. All we're saying is if you want to compete against us, fine--bring it on!--but do it fairly without resorting to illegal tactics like stealing source code and massive industrial spying.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:47:31 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 08:27:19 pmSo you know things nobody else knows and you can't tell them because they are secret? How do you know these things? Is a tinfoil hat involved in any way?And why should we believe vague, unsupported innuendo from some guy on the Internet?Sorry but from where I sit it just sounds ridiculous conspiracy theory.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:52:37 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 08:47:31 pmSorry, but from where I sit you sound like a Huawei shill.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 08:41:11 pmSo we have cases that were settled in secret but America does not consider them settled? How does this work exactly?The whole world is siding with China on this one. When all your friends are telling you that you are drunk, man, you are drunk.That's OK because Europe has decided to go with Huawei for 5G. We shall see who dominates the field in a few years.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 08:56:44 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on June 21, 2019, 08:52:37 pmYes, me and everybody else in the world except the Stable Genius who started all this. If it weren't for him America would continue to buy Huawei without a problem. It is an imaginary problem for him to gain support from his unconditional base.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:01:41 pm
content: Today I read in the news that the U.S. was 10 minutes away from killing 150 Iranians and possibly starting another large scale bloody war as retaliation for the Iranians shooting down an unmanned U.S. spy droneover Iranian territory!I don't believe Huawei is a threat more than economically, it's just another pawn in Trumps insane trade war that is causing global recession. Trumps childish tantrums and trying to punish "naughty China" or "rocket boy" or Iran is not helping anyone it is just causing more polarisation in the world.What the world need is more peaceful cooperation and promotion of human rights around the globe. The U.S. government is not a role model, it's the the reason the Middle East is in flames, it's the reason we have a refugee crisis in Europe. The U.S. gov. is overthrowing democratic governments, kidnapping and holding people without trial, torturing people, executing people, and so on. Is the Chinese government also bad in some ways? yes. That doesn't make this trade war right. Does Iran have a bad government? yes. That doesn't mean bombing Iran is a good thing.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 08:47:31 pmIf I told you, the CCP would have to kill you.QuoteSuffice it to say that, by banning Huawei, the US is doing it right.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:27:26 pm
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 09:08:27 pmTrumps trade-war is not just plain morally wrong, it's stupid and is going to hurt the U.S. as well as the rest of the world.By attempting to hold back economic growth in China, Trump is punishing not the CCP, but 1.4 billion normal people, keeping them in relative poverty. He is not going to convince the Chinese government to be more democratic or less vindictive in the future, quite the contrary.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 21, 2019, 09:01:41 pmYou're upset our President decided not to retaliate after Iran decided to destroy our property? You're a strange person. By the way only one group unequivocally says it was in Iranian air space... Iran. The country upset we decided to stop giving them money.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:41:12 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 08:53:58 pmThe truth is not a popularity contest.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:50:56 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 21, 2019, 09:37:45 pmIt was awfully far from the US and awfully close to Iran. Imagine Iran operating spy drones along the US coast for a minute. Killing 150 people and risking a large scale war because of a unmanned drone is crazy. Maybe you should try reading more than U.S. right wing propaganda for a change.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 09:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on June 21, 2019, 09:37:45 pmOnly one country says it wasn't in Iranian airspace: America. Who should I believe? Odds do not favor America. They lie and lie and lie.Not to mention the long history of aggression the USA has in that part of the world.I'd like to see how America would react if Iran had drones flying just outside California waters. Twelve miles from Los Angeles. America would go apeshit crazy.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 10:02:46 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 21, 2019, 09:54:10 pmIt's worse than that. There was a treaty. The Stable Genius pulls America out of the treaty against the pleadings of all other nations.Having abrogated the treaty by pulling out of it America is upset Iran is no longer abiding by the treaty?How does that work?I mean, a seven year old understands the world better than that.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 10:21:19 pm
content: It wasn't that long ago but for those who missed it (in the words of US based news):https://www.vox.com/world/2018/5/8/17328520/iran-nuclear-deal-trump-withdrawBush lied about evidence of WMDs in Iraq, and I'm sure there are other examples, but Trump is a pathological liar:https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/10/politics/donald-trump-lies-fact-check/index.html

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 10:56:10 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 21, 2019, 09:01:41 pmCooperation needs honest intentions. China wants to annex large part of the South China sea and sovereign control over Taiwan, it will keep pushing the envelope with economic strangleholds combined with military posturing towards its neighbours and covertly weakening the US until it achieves that. The US wants to maintain the territorial status quo in Asia and remain hegemon over the international waters there. There is no middle ground for these positions, there was a strange unilateral war going on where the US wasn't even fighting ... now the US is turning it into a cold war.Same with Iran. They want nukes. Given Libya and Syria it's reasonable for them to want nukes ... but regardless, the US doesn't want them to get nukes. Again, no middle ground.If you want Iran to get nukes and China to get Taiwan just say that. The US using "diplomacy" is just refusing to fight in a covert war to accomplish those things.Rocket boy is a basket case who theatrically executes members of his government for failures outside their control ... coddling him never made him stop firing missiles. An egomaniac US president swinging his dick is a bit of a random way of dealing with him, but I don't see it making his danger any worse. It was a shitshow which could blow up at any moment, it unfortunately remained so. There seems no hope for anything better till they get a regime change or really lucky with their next successor dictator.Diplomacy has limits.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 11:08:56 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2019, 10:56:10 pmNonsense, there was a deal, Iran was dismantling their nuclear program according to everyone except Trump. Then trump decided the US should break the deal in order to appease his fans at home."The best evidence we have suggests Iran was actually complying with the deal. Iran has dismantled a huge portion of its nuclear program and given international inspectors wide latitude to make sure it isn’t cheating; the country is significantly further from a nuclear weapon than it was when the deal came into force."

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 11:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2019, 10:56:10 pmCooperation needs reliability in agreements and treaties and not an unstable genius who cannot be relied on to not change his mind several times the same day.So Huawei is just a pawn being used in this new cold war America has opened? And the accusations are just fabricated to justify the banning? OK, as long as we are clear on that.China wants Taiwan. Well, no shit, an independent Taiwan is a creation of the USA. China can afford to play a long game and time is on their side. They are not in a hurry.Iran has suffered a long history of attacks from the USA and has seen neighbors also being attacked. The primary duty of any government is defend the country from external attacks and Iran knows that means nuclear weapons. It is their duty to do all they can to defend themselves from the clear and present threat that is America.America wants Iran to renounce nuclear weapons? Why does it keep threatening then? Suppose America said "we will never attack Iran and, in fact, we will defend Iran if it were attacked by a third country". Poof! The need for nuclear bombs has disappeared. America has been fucking with Iran for over 100 years and continues to do so. Iran, as a sovereign independent country has the right and the duty to defend itself.North Korea is another made up problem. If you just let China handle NK things should not get out of hand. China is more instested in stability than anybody else and certainly much more than America. Just tell them to keep NK in check and they will do it. NK is a problem because America wants to be in control of everything around the world.The problem with America today is that it is totally unreliable. You can sign a treaty today and tomorrow the Stable Genius decides he doesn't like it and it's gone. It is not even a matter of good faith. It is a matter of not reneging on your commitments.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 11:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: apis on June 21, 2019, 11:08:56 pmWhich would let them keep doing enrichment, which they really have no business doing ... the most fundamental necessary knowhow to retain to quickly build a nuke, that's all it's good for, that's why they wanted to keep it. An ace in the hole. Why did they get to keep their centrifuges? Because Obama and the EU wanted an agreement at any cost.If you desire a diplomatic solution to the point of self defeatism, your opponent will abuse that. Trump is right, it was a bad deal for the US. A well negotiated deal would have likely destroyed the production base for enrichment and made the know how dissipate, it would have set back any attempt at nuclear weapons back by a decade, instead of letting them just needing a year or so of being left alone and/or a single undetected site. Of course now it has become a matter of face, so getting a good deal is almost impossible.Trump ultimately is the solution for the danger created by Obama. Trump showing the US can be strong AND incredibly dangerous, will allow anyone coming after him to get a much better deal. They'll make that deal with someone other than Trump, so they can still safe some face, but they'll make that deal fearing the US again. A big stick is only credible if they think you have the willingness to use it, Trump is restoring that faith.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 12:07:12 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 11:30:47 pmChina was weak as shit for ages after Mao. Without nukes it didn't have the power to do jack shit to Taiwan. Independent Taiwan was a creation of the Taiwanese, all they needed for it was trade.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 12:41:16 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 22, 2019, 12:25:20 amThe tail doesn't wag the dog ... and if the US decides to be the dog, it is the dog.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 12:49:02 am
content: Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2019, 11:32:34 pmThe rest of the worlds governments disagree with you and Trump about the Iran deal.Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2019, 11:32:34 pmYou mention Obama a couple of times. To undo what Obama did out of spite is more likely why Trump is doing this (same as with Obamacare and the Paris climate accord). We all know why the Trump supporters dislike Obama, it has nothing to do with geopolitics or the color of hissuit.Quote from: Marco on June 21, 2019, 11:32:34 pmLike Iran haven't noticed that the U.S. recently invaded two of it's neighbour countries?Quote from: soldar on June 21, 2019, 11:30:47 pmExactly, he's undermining the possibility of reaching a deal in the future. And other countries will do what the US does, not what they say. If the US lies, break their promises and ignore international law, it sets a very poor precedent, other countries will begin to do the same. It erodes the UN system and International law.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 01:16:47 am
content: It wasn't a stable deal ... with the proxy wars with Saudi Arabia and the paranoia of Israel, the remaining enrichment infrastructure in Iran is going to cause escalation sooner or later. Deal or no deal.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 02:19:22 am
content: Quote from: bsfeechannel on June 21, 2019, 04:18:29 pmThe problem you seems can not comprehend is, the finger pointing business is NOT consistent.Too many examples already, here, just one, on what Arab Saudi had done on Jamal Khashoggi.As your criminals example up there, its like you are a criminal, as you said above, and you saw someone did a really serious crime, and "proudly" admit they did it publicly, yet, you're not pointing any finger at all to that criminal, and to make thing worst, you even sell more lethal weapons, tons of it to that criminal for them to do it more.How do you call that ? A hypocrite ?Now, imagine if China did the exact prosecution like Arab Saudi did on that little cute Taiwan girl you adore, and China admit it internationally, wonder how are you going to react on that ?Besides all of noises you mentioned, just back to square one, how do you trust a criminal from the 1st place anyway.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 02:45:27 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 22, 2019, 12:46:36 amYep, becoming US's dog tail is fun to watch, like the Dutch recently did on their own dead victims, its a joke.Look what happened to Malaysian MH17 plane crash shot by Ukranian, the plane was intentional shot down by Western intelligence cooperating with Ukrainian using old ex. USSR missile that belong to Ukrainian, and the plan was trying really hard to put the blame on Russia by sacrificing the MH17.The funny thing to watch is even the Malaysia gov. officially denies the report made by Dutch on accusing the Russian, as there is no conclusive proof, yet, the Dutch government with so many their own Dutch citizens killed in that plane, insisting doing the NOT funny joke stunt, really sad to see this.->Malaysian PM says Russia being made a scapegoat for downing of flight MH17Quote ->"Even before they examine, they already said Russia. And now they said they have proof. It is very difficult for us to accept that.""Mahathir said he did not think the Russians were involved and that the investigative team’s findings were based on “hearsay”. "

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:37:40 am
content: Yes, yes and the two Russians who did the Novichok poisoning were really homosexuals on vacation in Salisbury ...Ukranians of any flavour shooting down a plane in a civil war was never going to be a casus belli for Nato to go to war with Russia. So there was either a conspiracy to shoot down a plane to accomplish fuck all, or a couple trigger happer sobs in a messy situation shot at the wrong blip.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 04:02:40 am
content: Quote from: Marco on June 22, 2019, 03:37:40 amAgree, its just for putting pressure for big NATO allies, especially for German, to stop the direct gas pipeline Nord Stream 2 from Russia to German, that is it.While German is not stupid too, with that pipeline, apart from their own use, as their dependency on fossil fuel is shrinking as well, this is a good opportunity for German as a middleman utilizing this gas line as business and geo political advantages as well, should neighboring countries need it, as simple as that.Kudos to German, smart & wise move.->France and Germany Face Off Over Russian PipelineSee ? Even without US in this topic, NATO members are back stabbing each other, and of course, the Russians are enjoying watching this fight for sure, not their fault though.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:49:08 am
content: Right, I have had a sweep up. Can we stay off the controversial stuff please!

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:49:58 am
content: The moderation here is a joke!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:53:04 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 22, 2019, 07:49:58 amYour right, I should have deleted the tread and baned several people. The rules are no politics! I can let cordial discussion stay but what is the point in rowing over politics in an electronics forum?

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 08:50:13 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 22, 2019, 07:53:04 amGroan! You'reright.https://www.grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/youre_your.htmBut I'm glad you agree.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 09:05:57 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 22, 2019, 07:53:04 amWell, your forum, your rules but, (1) the topic is interesting to us in this field, (2) it is inextricably connected with international politics, and (3) I see no harm as long as the conversation remains civil and based on the issues and not on personal attacks.If and when a poster becomes uncivil I would propose warning or banning repeat offenders but I see no benefit to throwing the baby out with the bathwater by closing threads.You can restrict the board to strictly technical topics and ban all off-topic but I believe this would result in a loss of posts and posters.Every board dedicated to specific topics has a forum for off topic posts because people who share a certain interest also like to comment and discuss other things.I have seen a few posts here that were personal attacks which I believe should not be allowed but I just ignore them. My mouse has this very convenient wheel that allows me to scroll over posts of posters I don't like. And I have recently discovered the "ignore" function on this board which has substantially reduced my scrolling as it does not display posts by posters I do not want to read.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 09:14:41 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 22, 2019, 07:49:58 amYou mean they allow the expression of views other than your own?Because I may disagree with your ideas but I would defend to the death your right to express them.(Well, not really, but you know what I mean.)

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 09:21:43 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 22, 2019, 09:14:41 amWhat are you talking about? My replies were deleted. Now go tell Simon that you're going to top yourself if they're not undeleted.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 09:46:01 am
content: just stumbled this, dated 2 years ago... 12000 startups in each dayprojecting to today, there should be nearly 9 millions startups less than 2 years old already. i guess trump is too late. the great dragon yes but... i'm not sure what they feed on to... except those few tycoons sponsoring them... huawei... huahui.. whats the difference? somehow i think, this massacre is a bless (except to those my uyghurs fellas out there) we need to learn to read chinese

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 10:18:26 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 22, 2019, 09:46:01 amNot sure if this is related ....Just jump to 0:53 to the English speaker dad .... I guess he is a traitor.Or watch from the beginning with your eyes closed, that cute 7 years old little girl even rhyme.https://youtu.be/5bSXOHAC7K0?t=53Oh ... POTUS's granddaugther ...https://youtu.be/QUH5VyepJHoProbably these old dudes (grand dads) having a long term vision and plan for their kids and grandkids ?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 10:22:57 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 22, 2019, 09:21:43 amOops! I'm sorry. I missed that part. I apologize.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 10:41:32 am
content: Quote from: soldar on June 22, 2019, 10:22:57 amTo be more specific, my replies (including one to you) were deleted because someone who couldn't tolerate my opinions got all butt-hurt over my low opinion of a selection of his most egregious postulations and then got happy with the report button.Reminds me of another thread here recently.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 10:52:57 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 22, 2019, 10:41:32 amAs I do not know what was deleted I can have no opinion but I note that there are many contradictory opinions still posted so I have to suspect it was probably related to personal insults/attacks or just plain lack of civility. As long as posts are polite and reasonable they seem to be allowed.I find that if I find a post so utterly stupid that the most appropriate response is to call the poster an idiot then the best thing is to ignore the post and put the poster on my ignore list. It works for me and maybe it would work for you too.At any rate, I am so glad I put a disclaimer in the small print of my post.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 12:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on June 22, 2019, 10:52:57 amWell, lets test that out, shall we? This thread is 10 pages of overtly political discussion. This thread has not been locked. There is even another concurrent thread on this same topic with moderator participation, so as of right now, the "politics disallowed" mantra carries no weight.I'll re-post my deleted reply to you and keep it as "civil" as I can.Quote from: soldar on June 16, 2019, 07:39:28 amI disagree. In fact, in my opinion, that is an egregious statement. Virtually anyone in the West can criticise the government and believe in whatever they like (BS or otherwise) without risk of being persecuted or incarcerated by the state. This freedom even extends to anyone who is a temporary guest of or visitor to the west, even if it is a freedom that they hold in contempt, despite indulging in it on the EEVblog forum when they have the opportunity. And I hardly think that such basic freedoms can be tritely dismissed as inconsequential or without benefit to anyone else in any other nation. However all of this is most certainly not the case in authoritarian China and especially so now under Xi Jinping, who is turning out to be, more and more, a deplorable tyrant. Unfortunately, consolidating his rule, Xi has cracked down and put a stop to a whole host of beneficial liberalizing reforms that were actually making real and tangible progress in China. Now you can tell me that the Chinese people don't want Western freedoms, but I'm pretty sure that there are countless Chinese citizens who have met with the foul side of the state that would resent you gravely for such an assertion.Quote from: soldar on June 22, 2019, 10:52:57 amYou really need to give this blinkered and extremist anti-Americanism a break. Despite being far from a rose garden and having more faults to list, America is demonstrably not sinking like a stone, and China's uber-crony take on Capitalism suffers from all of the trappings of this "decadence" of the West that you bemoan, but, by virtue of its repressive uber-cronyism, x10. Growth driven by skyrocketing debt, insolvent banking institutions and bailouts, educational inequality, the consolidation of the majority of net wealth into the hands of only a few, state intrusion into citizens private lives, restrictions on personal liberty, etc, etc - China has it all in spades and it these things that are accelerating towards (or are already beyond) west-surpassing levels as much as if not more than anything.Red Flags: Why Xi's China Is in Jeopardyby George Magnus (very much not an "anti-china" zealot) is a recommended read for anyone actually genuinely interested in a sober view of where China is heading. The reality for the most part isn't particularly pretty.https://intpolicydigest.org/2018/10/24/book-review-red-flags-why-xis-china-is-in-jeopardy/Also of interest:Carl Minzner, End of an Era: How China’s Authoritarian Revival is Undermining Its Rise.I'll stick that one on my next Amazon order.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 08:42:05 am
content: Quote from: GK on June 22, 2019, 12:30:09 pmNow that I'm alerted to it. Thread locked.