Printing out huge datasheets - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 01:34:28 am
content: So I just got done printing and binding a 500 page datasheet. Took me four friggin hours, sweating my ass off in the garage and making a huge mess.Honestly, this is half the reason I put off upgrading to the latest and greatest in microcontrollers.Halfway through, I actually stopped to google printing and binding services. If you meet minimum quantites, you can get a reasonable price, perhaps under $10.00 each.I would pay $30.00 for a proper printed and bound 500 page datasheet. I think there's a market here. I wonder what the copyright issues would be for trying to sell these, though?Perhaps group buy would be the way to go.Anyone else have a favored way of handling these things? I have the latest and greatest printer which will print doublesided and does book format and will even print in the [name eludes me... the little bundles which you fold in half and then staple/sew together before gluing them all to the spine]. But the grunt work is still pretty horrific.I suppose most of yas just use 8.5 x 11 full sheets put in a 3 ring binders. My bench never has space for that.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 02:00:46 am
content: Perhaps use a binding system:https://www.google.com.au/search?q=binding+system&gws_rd=cr&ei=IQ5wWbjrHoOz8QXI75i4CgI think some of the bigger office supply places do this as a service (as well as printing)I've got dozens of bound data sheets, standards, manuals etc as a former employer had a binding system in the office. To bind a small document takes maybe a minute. A 500 sheet one might take 10 minutes.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 02:14:21 am
content: I was wondering about the copyright issues myself. I have several datasheets I need printed, one of which is over 400. Paperless doesn't work for me.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 02:23:18 am
content: So put the PDF file on a thumb drive and go to the nearest Office Depot or FedEx Office (formerly "Kinkos") and ask if they can print a publicly-available PDF document. I would bet that their only question would be how you want to pay for it. OTOH, perhaps only the larger locations in bigger cities can handle the binding of larger docs.There are online printing services likehttps://www.mimeo.com/andhttps://www.lulu.com/Dunno whether they will print a "3rd party" PDF document? Wouldn't hurt to ask them.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 02:33:50 am
content: Legal answers about copyrights/patents/trademarks/etc are going to vary depending on your country of residence, the country the schematics come from, and the desires of the schematic creators.In general, if it's for personal use only, it's either not illegal at all or is going to be overlooked.If you're planning to resell them, then I'd research it further.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:11:36 am
content: That is what i was wondering. About selling or group buy.I have ended up binding my larger datasheets like a proper book. I dunno if u have ever printed 500 page datasheet, but i dont think spiral bind cuts it. If u choose wrong paper weight it will end up 3 or inches thick. Using light paper is still quite the book. I wonder what that cost at the copy center if it will fit spiral binder.So i wondered if this is potential business for someone.... someone like adafruit or sparkfun, perhaps. If u could add a book quality datasheet for atmega 328 to your cart for $30.00, this would be no brainer for me.I have tried many times to use monitor just for datasheets. Even tur ing it portrait. I cant flip back and forth or use the index efficiently.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:23:24 am
content: Well modern micro controller is over 500 pages. A lot is same across family, but the page numbers are different in the index. I know you use way more advanced devices than I; I don't know how you read/reference a datasheet by moving a mouse and clicking buttons. I can't properly use a micro without printing out the datasheet, first. My short term memory is too far corrupted.Heck why am i thinking adafruit and sparkfun? Why not digikey or mouse team up with a printing company. And select devices would have hardcopy datasheets available for sale?Even for some shorter datasheets i would rather like to have perhaps a softcover book format for them. I imagine i would be tacking on classic lm 358 and such to my order, if cost is reasonable. Probably for every part in my cart. They could dropship from 3rd party and take 1 or 2 week, i think would s5ill be great.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:35:14 am
content: I'm another person that doesn't care for eManuals - they're just hard to use.So, I print them 2-sided on a LaserJet, punch some holes and put them in a D-ring binder. I would like to have them professionally bound but it is faster to print them here than to drive all over town.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 04:00:52 am
content: I was looking at cost to make 500 page hardcover book, 5.5 x 8.5", and it's very reasonable..... if you buy 125 of them.This is a perfect business opportunity.There are some obvious easy picks here. Certain Arduino-favored AVR, perhaps some STM32, and maybe even some PIC micro... seems like anyone could open up a store and sell these datasheets?I have a horrible paperback, here. Paid $10.00 for it at the airport. All it did was waste my time and make me dumber. (NY Time Best Seller. First few pages seemed like your average realistic thriller. And it turns out to be about a female scientist/millionaire/activist/murderer/helicopter pilot? WTF. This is why I don't finish books anymore, lol.) It's smaller than the datasheet I just finished binding, lol.Why write a trashy book to satisfy a book deal? Print datasheets. Sell them. Profit???

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 04:18:12 am
content: This is how I been doin it.Compared to a 494 page paperback book. And a more reasonable 64 page datasheet, which I will generally manage with just a staple.Been doin it this way for over ten years, and it doesn't get any easier. The datasheets just get bigger and bigger, lol.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 04:49:10 am
content: Horses for courses I suppose. I can't imagine a situation in which I would want to have a complete printed copy of a microcontroller datasheet.Tablet, ebook reader, laptop, desktop.... finding what you want is a CTRL-F away, open two, or three copies if you want to compare pages, always have the latest revision, be able to zoom in on charts and tables....

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:21:58 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 20, 2017, 03:17:16 amThey made a bloody chip? The end of the world has already begunTim

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:35:28 am
content: Do you really have to print the entire data sheet?I only ever print small snippets of a data sheet. Printing the whole thing just seems like a waste of time and resources.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:40:51 am
content: The 500 (*2) page datasheet will be the exact thickness of the 500 A4 sheet package that you buy...I have half three of these copy shops in walking distance. I dont even have a printer at home, I can do everything at the office, or one of these places if I need some emergency printing (lol) in the weekend. I hate printers at home they just eat money, and when you would need them, the toner is always dead.Anyways, any university town will be filled with these, and they charge few cents per page. If you really need that paper datasheet.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 10:02:38 am
content: Sorry trees but I do have quite a few PIC datasheets printed in their entirety.I go for double sided 2-up so you get 4 pages per A4 and then ring bound.... but only the devices I use regularly.(and I have a friendly print shop)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 10:03:30 am
content: QuoteMostly I can't live without the entire microcontroller datasheet. I have tried printing out "just what I need" many times, particularly when moving to another PIC in the same family. They're 90% the same, right? I spend too much time printing and losing things and I waste more time and resources, and I use the index, which is pretty annoying if you don't print the whole thing, look something up, and it's not there.I can't open 3-4 PDF's at the same time and be able to read it. I have a pretty large monitor and a secondary, but I tone the resolution down to 1600 x 900 specifically for doing pcb and firmware, for the sake of seeing all the icons/menus and for ease of reading. And keeping focus on the task. And even if I had gigantic monitors (and then where would I put my scope and PSU and other stuff?) and I could read 3-4 pdf's at a time, then I have to dance between the multiple windows to flip pages... when I have IDE open as well (if not logic analyzer, other programming software, pcb software) in addition to those 3-4 pdfs. This just doesn't work for me. But I did get hit in the head pretty hard when I was 10.For some reason I can process a lot of more information in a 2:1 book with tiny print that is actually in my hands than I can a huge monitor with larger print. Perhaps being able to put my finger or pencil on the page.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 11:19:53 am
content: 500 pages? snort... i've been doing this like forever. top three in the pic are just recent, topmost is near 600 pages. the bottom most is the thickest i've made i think i can find around, 1000+ pages (i have to make 2 batches for drilling of the same book and recombine afterward)... ingredient = few clamps and hard papers as braces, and then bench drill, and then thread and needle knit, and then covering to your liking, mine is "book tape" and misc plastic laminate as seen. i'm with the OP's boat, except the copyright issue with selling, i do this for my personal keeping. anybody think he can carefully study hundreds of pages on however many monitors/tablets, my advice is he should get eye or brain insurance soon. lit reading surface doesnt work with me. flipping/bookmarking hardcopy took like an instant with little effort, not to mention its "wireless" so we dont worry about having power outlet around for charging. and its also shockproof suitable in a boring time during long journey.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 11:37:59 am
content: Nicely done on the books bindings.I would be skeptical about the PDFers, too. But heck, some of them probably had an iPad before a bicycle.If we were the norm, there would be huge opportunity here for a business. Or even for manufacturers, themselves.A rep came by and gave me a bunch of Cypress dev boards. And they collect dust. It is like homework. I gotta download the software. I gotta print out datasheets. All i really have is more junk, like i dont need. I would rather he give me a bound hardcopy of the datasheet. And i can read it. And i will buy dev kits if i like what i see!

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 01:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on July 20, 2017, 08:35:28 amNo, it isn't always necessary but so many times, there are links in one chapter that lead off to another chapter. "See PR0 on page 398" while you are reading page 210. But that is better than duplicating the information and having differences because it only got updated in one location instead of multiple.It's been awhile since I have printed an entire datasheet but I certainly print snippets. Even worse: NXP documents separate the User Manual from the Datasheet. Turns out the Datasheet isn't all that useful for programmers, they need the User Manual. The hardware guys need the Datasheet. If you're a one man show, you need them both!

author: elecman14
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 01:14:01 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on July 20, 2017, 02:23:18 amI usually use lulu. Just got a weird old Keithley datasheet that was in 6" X 9" (trade paperback) sized that was a pain to read on the computer printed and spiral bound. If memory serves me correct it was $8.50 shipped for a 250 page datasheet. I have done A4 in the past and it is slightly more expensive. The turn time is generally pretty reasonable.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:12:35 pm
content: I wish I kept my printed out copy of Analog Devices 4 input deep color HDMI receiver with 12 input deep color graphics digitizer to photograph and post here. It was 3 volumes thick with all the I2C maps & how to use the chip.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:12:42 pm
content: i don't waste time anymore printing large amount of pages.i either use an online service or go to any copy-shop. they'll print it for about what it would cost me to do it alone, plus the hassle. And they will also put the cover and the binding, i have a couple of local shops which are cheaper than online services.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 03:29:10 pm
content: I don't understand why anybody would want to print them in the first place. You can't ctrl+f a stack of paper, you can't follow links to other pages, tables, or other sources online...what's the point? I can see printing a page or three for a quick reference while developing or testing in the lab, but all 500 pages? Seriously? Buy yourself a cheap laptop, tablet, or something similar. In addition to not wasting paper, ink, and shelf space, it's also SO much faster to search through and find what you're looking for. For those complaining about having 3 PDFs open at once and having to switch between them...alt+tab, it's faster than having to shuffle around hundreds of pages of paper/notebooks anyway.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 04:37:44 pm
content: If you are referring a lot to a document, it may be worth spending a couple of minutes to add bookmarks yourself. And complain to the vendor to make proper PDFs. This is not as easy if they enabled PDF security, in that case you are left with yelling at the vendor.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 05:00:51 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 20, 2017, 04:19:36 pmI have a Microsoft Surface Pro 4 that I can use for the same purpose, I use it with Kindle all the time (almost exclusively, as it turns out). I use a Surface Book as my desktop computer with an external 27" monitor and there are other machines on the desktop which are fully capable of displaying a book (in landscape). I like eInk but it isn't something I would pay money for.A high end Surface Book with 2 external monitors (plus the normal screen) isn't entirely worthless. What is a problem is the fact that none of my external monitors can match the resolution of the built-in display. Sometimes the rendering is regrettable. Lines get lost, text gets hard to read, etc. The 3:2 display ratio isn't really compatible with external displays (that I have found).https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/forum/surfbook-surfdrivers/why-did-they-make-the-surface-book-with-a-32/0d30c196-5d5d-427b-b49e-3548b69fae09But I still like paper. I have done the multiple screen approach and it works well but somehow reading a screen just isn't the same.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 07:20:09 pm
content: @elecman14Can you give me some basic pointers, here? Lulu is the kind of service I googled the other day. And I can't seem to figure out how you did this. When I select all the options, I get price of 11.00, but minimum order of 32 pieces. That is over $300.00.If I can order a 500 page datasheet printed and bound for under $30.00, I think I will give it a spin.*Oh... neer'mind. Reading it wrong. Oops.Now the problem isQuote

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 07:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 20, 2017, 04:19:36 pmOf course, it's no worse than reading a printout...plus you can still search. Looking for chapter 5? Ctrl+f "chapter 5". Looking for the "Timer A" chapter? Ctrl+f "timer a".

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 20, 2017, 07:20:09 pmDecrypt it then? Easy enough.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:39:01 pm
content: QuoteYou underestimate my incompetence.So Google to the rescueTried to print it to another PDF.Microsoft XPS document writer only saves in XPSPrimoPDF broke. Document too large?The links I get from Google suggest password protected PDF, you have to enter a password to view it? I don't have to enter a password. Honestly, I don't know what any of this #$% is. But 20 minutes of registering for Lulu and googling PDF password and figuring out templates and format I'm ready to go back to the garage with the clamps and drill press and glue and plane blade.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 08:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 20, 2017, 08:39:01 pmSee PM..

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 09:04:13 pm
content: I use a tablet and a laptop to view PDFs in addition to using primary and secondary desktop for work.yeah, it's energy inefficient but it's the best solution I could come up with. If I need one more interface, I use another laptop.If you're wondering, the total is 2 desktops, 2 laptops and a tablet for 5 interfaces and 8 monitors.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 09:10:21 pm
content: Why on earth would you want a shelf full of non-searchable paper?Just get a tablet. Job done.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 09:31:20 pm
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/paper-or-pdf-how-do-you-do-your-datasheets/If you want to vote, go to the poll! Tomato tomato tomato.. Who says tomato?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2017, 11:25:25 pm
content: Quote from: suicidaleggroll on July 20, 2017, 03:29:10 pmhave you come across... you are reading a page, then it refers to another page, then you bookmark it, and then the referred page refers to another page, in the end you have like 5 bookmarks, now you want to go back and forth between 2 or 3 of this bookmarks in no particular order, sometime i want to see them both side by side. say i have bookmark 1,2,3,4,5. first i want to "flip between"/"compare both" book mark 4,2 and then 5,1 and then 3,5 and then 5,3,1. if you can demonstrate an app of device faster than my hand can do and portable enough to be brought to kitchen, toilet etc, then entertain us. btw i will read on monitor if it doesnt require that complexity and read topic only involved few pages like 20 pages top. above that my brain and eye start to condensate... ymmv..

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 01:41:27 am
content: I'm with everyone here who prefers them in PDFs --- with the exception that if the PDF is a horribly unreadable scan, I'd want the hardcopy just so I could do a better job of scanning it.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 02:54:41 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on July 20, 2017, 11:25:25 pm2-3? Sure. 5? Never. Doesn't change the approach though. Open up 5 copies of the PDF, scroll to the 5 pages of interest, put them on 5 different workspaces (1-5). Then just use ctrl+alt+1-5 to hop between them. From what I understand Windows doesn't include support for multiple workspaces for whatever idiotic reason Microsoft has for reducing their customers' productivity, but if you use Windows there are 3rd party tools you can install to get it done.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 07:49:07 pm
content: Thanks, all, for the suggestions. And specially to CS for "decrypting" the PDF. Lulu accepted this and I have a 440 page datasheet/book on the way for $14.00. I will find out if I screwed something up and update with pics when it arrives in 3-5 business days.Aside from potentially screwing up the formatting, the part that I'm most curious about is the paper. If I understand, correctly, this is going to be printed on 60# paper, and there was no option I could find to change it. I have feeling this book might be hilariously thick.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:06:02 pm
content: I think you'll find it good enough to print 2 pages on each side, in landscape. Still text big enough, but saving lots of paper.Print all datasheet 2 pages per side in landscape format , odd page numbers first then put the stack of papers back in the printer and repeat the process but choose to print even pages .. now you can cut all pages in the middle and you have 500 smaller pages made out of 125 regular sheets.Some printers have a template for this scheme (called booklet maybe)

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:14:27 pm
content: @mariush, this is how I have always done it, before. My new printer actually prints both sides automatically, so I don't have to put the stack back in. And instead of cutting the pages, this one will actually print them into the bookmaker "stacks" that you fold over (although I haven't tried this, yet).I can't figure out all the options on Lulu, yet, so I ended up going with 6x9" instead of 5.5" x8.5". So it's going to be a little bigger than the rest of my datasheets, but the thickness of the paper will be the curious thing.One time I printed a datasheet with w/e my GF uses. It's regular printer paper but it is heavier weight than what I use. I think 20 or 25lbs. It came out so fat I redid it. I think this is going to be 60# paper... but after going through all the other steps, I can't stop now over 14 bucks.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:28:17 pm
content: @MariushBTW, here's another tip you might like. I started out spending an obscene amount of time trying to get the pages to line up straight, so you can turn pages without sticking. This gets impossible to do, the thicker the book. After some research, I found out that bookmakers bind the book, then they trim the edges, after. So they always come out flush. They use a monster guillotine for this.Without spending thousand dollars, you can do this with a little elbow grease. Clamp the book between some boards with a straight edge/board lined up where you want to flush cut, and then have at it with a sharp knife. I use a plane blade held flat against the straight-edge block guide. Take multiple passes. And chisel/plane out any little problems, after.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:37:43 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 20, 2017, 01:34:28 amSignatures?How about having a tablet dedicated to datasheets?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 08:55:01 pm
content: I bought a tablet back in the day thinking it would be great. Aside from playing poker on it, I don't use it. The battery died several years ago from disuse.A tablet needs a power cable or it runs out of batteries at the wrong time.When you put your finger on a tablet as a "pointer" a bunch of shit pops up. When you pick it up , you touch the screen and a bunch of shit pops up. Or you lose your page. Or you open up angry bird.To use bookmarks/search, apparently people these days like to use Alt F and Alt tab and a bunch of other shortcuts. Which means you are using a keyboard or tapping on the screen. Or a bunch of swiping back and forth. Or doubletapping. Or some confuscating combos of the above.This doesn't work for me. I tried it and I don't like it. To setup peripheral on a microcontroller can involve multiple registers, setting up prescaler, and a whole shitton of completely arbitrary 1's and 0's in arbitrary places. And using other peripherals, some of these are interrelated. I do this better with a book.To anyone who prefers PDF, I wonder if they also prefer to use USB scope over separate device? Just a few more clicks here and there. A few more mouse movements. Or perhaps even touchscreen gestures for the truly proficient at incorporating the abstract and arbitrary into the reading of a datasheet in order to try to understand the controls for a device, which are themselves abstract and arbitrary.I don't even like a mouse. I am on mythirdfifth "refurb" trackball, cuz no one makes a decent real trackball anymore. Fingerball.... thumball... what the $@%@ is this shit? I play with microcontrollers and electronics, because I'm old school dinosaur. If I was a cool kid I would be coding on a complete workstation on thumbstick sized pcb, in python, on Virtual Windows emulator, over Linux. But I wouldn't even be coding on it, directly. I'd be doing it virtually, in an simulator, and I'd have finished product without even touching a wire.But I'm not that guy. By the time I'm done clicking this, swiping that, I have forgotten what I was doing in the first place. I need to break out the white board to even hold a few ones or zeros, else they fall out of my head by the time I close page/book. Sometimes I have to even draw things out to understand the hierarchy, structure, interaction, order. The printed datasheet just works better. I get better feel for the structure of the datasheet, itself. I can see/feel where I am in the datasheet. Without looking at a page number and having to process that and try to actively associate it with something. Just being passively aware of the physical location in the thickness of the datasheet I'm reading, rather than any place where "timer0" happens to pop and click "next, next next," I have frame of reference in which to put this information. Also, if I alt +F... do I need to write "timer0" "TMR0" "timer 0"? I dunno. If I'm looking at an index, I will find any of the above and I'll also see other significant entries in the index which are going to jog/mesh/click some synapses in my overall understanding of the device. For example, I might see "TMR2/4/6," which reinforces the other available timers, and also I know that 2,4, and 6 are mirror images of each other, but timer 0 (TMR0?) is different. Oftentimes we use a small fraction of what a device can do. Reminders of all the other stuff and where/how the device is structured are all the better. Moving from PIC to AVR, for instance, I have no clue what to even search. Names/acronyms/abbreviations for things will be different. Memory structure is different. I need to learn the language of the datasheet to know what to look for. Browsing, skimming, reading a real datasheet will work much better for me.Alt+F is like going to a restaurant and the waiter says: "Tell me exactly what you want, and I'll tell you if we have it... provided you spell it the same way our technical writing department does." Maybe you will ask for a menu?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 10:17:08 pm
content: FWIW, five or so years ago I had identical feelings about tablets, I felt they were unnecessary because I need a PC to do my work. I hated reading stuff on screen. Like you, I printed _lots_ out. The same applied to reading books, I simply couldn't fathom how a tablet was going to be better than reading a book, and, frankly, in many respects it isn't the same as reading a book.Then, over the period of barely two weeks with an iPad, I was converted. Yes, they do misinterpret touch commands, a lot in fact, and it's bloody irritating, but in mitigation some do far better than others in this respect. On a tablet, I would say that IOS in my experience is a significantly better user experience than Android, and a million times better than Windows 10 in tablet mode.I also draw an analogy to the kitchen stove and microwave, comparing them to the PC and tablet. You can pretty much cook everything on a kitchen stove, but you can only do a limited subset of those things in a microwave. However the microwave is often a lot more convenient than a stove for the few things it does well.On a side note, if you are only able to use a resolution of 1600x900 on a reasonably sized monitor then I do understand, I would find that a huge limitation. Personally I use a 32" 4k monitor in native resolution, with a second one on the side when doing board layouts so I can have schematic and board together. You enter a whole different paradigm at those resolutions on a large enough form factor.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 10:30:17 pm
content: Yep. I have a 32" 4k monitor, too, FTR. And a second smaller monitor.And yes, my tablet is android. Good guess. I have no doubts Apple has better touch interface. I have used them, and they are great. Android doesn't have control over the hardware like Apple. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and give that a try. But even my second monitor gets little use. I find myself futzing with it more than benefitting from it. Just cuz it's there, I end up wanting to USE it even when I don't need it. Lately it's off more than on. I guess I'm easily distracted.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2017, 11:23:42 pm
content: https://hackernoon.com/why-i-stopped-using-multiple-monitors-bfd87efa2e5bThe 1% of the time I'm actually being productive when doing embedded design and firmware, I'm in a deep zone. I am following a tenuous thread. I lose all concept of time. And if someone interrupts me to ask if I want sprinkles on my icecream I will flip the fuck out. Getting into that zone is the hardest part. Staying there is pretty easy, when I have my own space. Interruption/distraction can make all the marbles fall out.A paper datasheet is an assistant that does only one thing and does it well. A tablet is the assistant that does other stuff I don't explicitly tell it to do, when I tell it. It needs updates. It needs to be at a certain angle to read it. It tells me the batteries are getting low. The screen saver turns on while I'm looking at it. It misinterprets what I want. It requires more actual attention to make it do things. I can navigate a book/index without losing the marbles that are trying to bust out of my puny little mind. It has nothing to do with how FAST I can find what I need. It's the fact I can use it without thinking. I don't care about the speed, cuz I have no concept of time at this point. And I can find things that I am conceptualizing before I even realize the name of what I'm looking for. To navigate PDF, it takes up one level of stack in my brain. And I'm already using all of it and barely functioning.A strange analogy maybe, but I see a relationship to how you keep your bench. While I try to keep my bench organized and clean, by the end of any complex project, I'm having to clear an empty space as I go, wading through parts, and cords, and clippings, and debris. It would probably be more efficient if I stopped to clean it as I went. But while I'm trying to keep the marbles from escaping, I just can't spare the attention. It's almost like if I had 10x the bench space, it wouldn't matter. I'd just fill up that entire space with the same clutter and end up working in the same, tiny clearing, anyway. The one spot where the most things I need are in reach. (If I'm doing something routine and repetitive it's the opposite. Then I keep everything tidy while I work.) I wish I didn't make such a mess so often, but that's how it works for me. Multiple monitors are kinda similar in having more space to clutter up.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 11:11:01 am
content: Hope it goes well.. $14 is a bargain IMO.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2017, 04:04:54 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on July 21, 2017, 10:30:17 pmSame here, at one point I was using three 4k 28" monitors. With my eyesight, I couldn't run them at native resolution without scaling, which for me is a big compromise. Dropping down to a single 32" in native 4k works for 95% of the time, the only time it doesn't is when doing board layouts with schematic back annotation. In that case, I put one of my old 28" 4k monitors on the quick release articulated gas spring Vesa mount that a scope usually sits on. Last time I checked, you don't need a scope when doing board layout!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 12:23:49 am
content: 10 days and $14.00:Unfortunately mail carrier allowed the box to get wet, at some point. The box was dry but showed signs of water. The book is thoroughly wet, still.It's just slightly thicker than the 18F datasheet which I printed myself. The ATmega has 10 or so more pages, so the thickness of the paper is almost exactly the same.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 10:34:01 am
content: So... ...uh.... yeah.I see the PDF POV much clearer, now. Datasheet dried out. Gave it the twice over. And I finally notice.400+ page Atmel datasheet doesn't even have an index.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 10:54:18 am
content: Guess they do not expect anyone to print out entire datasheets anymore. At least the Atmel datasheets have PDF bookmarks. Are there any large datasheets without either index or bookmarks (sucks on paper and PDF)?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 11:32:10 am
content: Yes. I am sure this is the norm, rather than the exception. Thewas for me, not towards Atmel. Microchip has both PDF bookmarks and index.The Atmel actually has a much more thorough table of contents than the Microchip datasheets. Microchip just lists the section name and page number. It's literally just a single page. Atmel lists (most) of the pertinent things within; but it is not nearly as comprehensive as Microchip index, nor is it in alphabetical order.