Soldering station recomendations ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 12:29:12 am
content: I have a $50 SS that's fine for most things, but I want to upgrade to something more robust and professional, and with easy to find/replace tips.I'd like a pretty good quality digital station, with swap-able irons, because I also want a SMD tweezer type iron as well as a regular 1.I have a clone 858 hotair station already, so I don't need hotair as well.I see something like a Pace mbt 350 is near $2,000 and I think thats crazy expensive. I don't want to go over $200-300, how over priced are these anyways if they can't sell a good 1 for $200-300.I know Hakko and Weller by name only, not by model or price range, or any other worthy makers or worthy clones of these etc.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 01:58:27 am
content: Holy crap the prices are insane on all this stuff isn't it.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 10:13:17 am
content: What does an 888 cost up north?129 freedom dollars down here. I have incrementally upgraded a few times over the years. I don't find anything lacking in the 888 other than the UI being slightly special. Great tip selection, great ergos, great performance, very low maintenance cost.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 10:24:20 am
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on October 10, 2018, 12:29:12 amThePace MBT350is a 3 channel rework station. The standard model comes with an iron, either a TD-100a or a PS-90, a desoldering iron SX-100 and tweezers MT-100.If you were to buy one at current price from tequipment.net after discount you would be looking at roughly $1400. There is a guy selling them on Ebay for $925 (likely at a reduced profit).So this is significantly more than just a single channel soldering station and comes with tools that are considered by many to be the best.ThePace ADS200is the new single channel 120W station that comes with the TD-200 iron. Pace will be releasing a new optional tweezer for this station at this stage planned for early next year. As far as I'm aware they are expanding this new Accudrive series to replace existing models. This is just the first station in the series.The ADS200 is only $206 after discount at tequipment.net and about $20 more for the instant setback model which is the one I chose. You need to order a tip with the unit and they are $11 and $13 for the high capacity cartridges (tips) which is one of the good things about station, top quality low priced cartridges.So the benefits of the ADS200, aluminum cool touch iron, cheap consumables, high accuracy, super fast heat up time, super low tip to work distance, has super fine 0.2mm micro tips up to massive 8mm chisels. Easy to use and fast tip swapping with no calibration required.Here are my two and my MBT350 as a comparison. The MBT has a built in vacuum pump and can be used with a larger set of rework tools.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 10:35:03 am
content: This gives you an idea on what the SX-100 desoldering iron does. It cost about $300 or so with stand if brought separately from the MBT350 rework station.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 01:49:18 pm
content: I was a Weller user, not anymore. Metcal has the very attractive MFR-1100 station, I dont think I would need anything more for the iron. Hot air, sure. The tweezer is 220 EUR @ Farnell, not cheap for sure.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 02:03:42 pm
content: Why not something that uses Hakko T12 tips?I have a genuine FX951 and apart from the UI I love it, friends have generic stations that take the same tips and they work well too.I also have a Weller WSD80/WSP80 combo but I have a tiny tip on that for SMD Stuff, I prefer the T12 system on the Hakko for every day use.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 04:36:23 pm
content: Quote from: TheBay on October 10, 2018, 02:03:42 pmI learned of the clone types that use a 24V 4-5A SMPS, and a STM32 controller, OLED display, newer T12 type tips.Thats a lot closer to my budget, so long as the handle doesn't break. Those SMPS are easy to work on, so long as the flyback doesn't fail.For the amount I solder those should be fine, and a nice step up from my current triac/resistor type model. I just took it apart, and the hot and neutral wires are backwards

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2018, 11:48:05 pm
content: I know it's sort of a review but I feel sorry for the guy in the video, that is an classic example of throwing good money after bad. For all the effort and expense he has put into chasing the dream he could have just brought a couple of nice name brand stations.The handles aside from perhaps the one that doesn't work, are ridiculous. They have locking nuts for a quick swap cartridge and the same or worse tip to work distance that the 936. Then he is using Weller stands for them because the included ones would have been rubbish (if they even came with them).Anyway you said your budget was $200-$300 and you wanted tweezers?

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 12:04:22 am
content: Quote from: Shock on October 10, 2018, 11:48:05 pmJust watched this video and agree with you.Even the Aouye 2900/Circuit Specialists 2900 uses T12 tips and is hot swappable/quick swap.One thing that is annoying with my TS100 is that it uses a hex screw to lock the tip, I 3D printed an adaptor to use my T12 Tips in there and it worksquite well, but still need that hex screw.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 03:54:56 am
content: My 0.1 cent answer.I have an original FX-888D. GREAT! I soldered all that I did need with it, never it failed me, but I need to solder under microscope now and I'm looking for something else. Can I live without upgrade? Yes!I can solder well under microscope but prefer something more ergonomics. It's impossible do it with 888? NO, I did it for months, but I need to solder soon thousands of really tiny SMD (0201 imperial and some 0402 metric!) components and I looking for something else.The FX-888D have a crap interface... YES without doubt, BUT, when I solder I NEVER see the station and only change the work temp in extreme situations. This is not a toy to touch and see in HD, it's a tool, a reliable one to solder. Without detracting anyone, I think that much of the people that criticise the interface are programmers or hobbyst that prefer a rainbow in the screen to a proper set tool. Sorry. Hammers don't have UI and works. I set the temperature and not change anything else never more until I need to solder a really big component to a really extense pad. In this case I solder all with normal size and later solder the big components. That's it.For $100 in USA for an original and tested unit that it's really ESD safe and did works for the industry for years, I think that it's a really convenient acquisition.Forget the clone one's ! MAY BE are ESD safe, MAY BE works ok, MAY BE last for years as big brands last. Put money in something original.Exist a "new" technology that uses an improve thermal transference and control. New JBC , Pace and Hakko stations use it. JBC and Pace has more power, Hakko it's ubiquitous and plenty of accessories.I never did need more power than in my 888, but more it's preferable sometimes. I don't know if Pace and JBC has tweezers for his new solder stations, Hakko did (even have it for the 888). I like the micro iron optional to FX-951, but the Pace and JBC are close to it. But all of them cost almost the double that 888.I'm 47 year old now, all of my best works and designs was soldered with the Fx-888D's grandfather and never the iron was a limitant. In my case, when I did get old I did get fussy and touchy and apparently "need" something better to solder under the microscope. If I would have had to do it ten or fifteen years ago I would have been grateful (and amazed) to do it with my (now) old FX-888D.But the new technology is better than the previous one, I'm not sure I need it, but there are times when it's good to treat yourself.In other post I did ask for electrical information of these stations. My """clever intention"""" was do a cheap controller for an original handle with original tip and use it until the economics get better in my country and I can buy a original one base.I never did think that something that I can build in one (or ten) days will be better that something thinked by experts and developed in the big brands and tested in industry for years. They are making perfect units for decades.If I need to choose between an original 888 and a T12 clone I choose original. But for a month or two I can use a hybrid solution.Shock convince me (with a lot of careful thinkinks and facts) for the PACE ADS201 but finally I did doubt because this model it's not selled in my country and obligates me to buy all the tips and accesories in USA with a big extra cost. Sends an envelope with a tip to my country from USA it's about half the cost of the complete unit in USA!At this precise moment Greywoolfe offer a used FX-951 unit and then I did take the Hakko way again.I can buy original tips, use it with the used original FX 951 and make (and use) for a while a DIY handle. When the economics get better I will buy a complete unit (if I need, I still have the 888!) complete the used station with an original handle an use it as second iron with different tip, handle or temperature set.Even, if I need a tip for a specific work I can buy a clone tip and use it for few days without much hassle. Hakko it's the most cloned brand in the world it's plenty of clones in every chinese page and store in the world. There must be some reason for everyone to copy Hakko and not the others.To resume:I think that If you have the money and need it, buy the better that can you pay and sounds better to you.But, if the money it's not a surplus, buy an original FX-888D or an used PACE/JBC or Hakko with new technology. In any case you can't fail.All of this brands are good, all are great for the job. For some user some base has strengths that others not but depends heavily in the work to do.You are the only person that knows if you really need to spend more money than the need to buy one fx-888D or similar from a big brand.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 04:19:35 am
content: They will eventually be selling the Pace ADS200 down there but local distributors probably haven't put in or received an order yet. That plus a few months ago there was zero worldwide while they were doing a revision. Congrats with the Hakko FX-951.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 06:12:07 am
content: I never looked up soldering stations before, and I had expected the prices to be somewhat rational. BUT THEY ARE CRAZY !!Brand name markups as bad a nike sneakers.Old and reliable does not make up for the extra price. The cheapest used FX951 is +280 for me, and a used FX888 is 150, and they don't bother to say the actual temperature.I'm going the cheaper route on this 1, the big names will not get my money.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 09:12:57 am
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on October 11, 2018, 06:12:07 amThey aren't crazy, the difference is the reliable name brands are manufactured outside China, the component quality, use of linear transformer, enclosure and stand that doesn't slide around the table, iron that doesn't get hot to hold etc. It all brings up the cost.Many of those clones come in under 700g. The Pace ADS200 for instance is 2.3kg and comes with sponge, brass wool, two tip swapping tools, stand with tip rack built in. There is no comparison, raw material wise it should be quarter the price but the Chinese are selling the clones close to half the price for an inferior cheaper constructed product.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 02:55:50 pm
content: Lordvader, believe me, big brand costing 2x or 3x of chinese worth every cent!. But if you are a person that solder one or two times at month, yes, buy a chinese one. I seen people did damage several IC by ESD effects and even LED's for thermal mismatches. If you decide buy a clon it's ok, you know your necesity better than anyone, but at least buy a chinese copy of Hakko thermometer to adjust the station or do the calibration against eutectic (or cuasieutectic) point of SnPb.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 06:53:21 pm
content: The Hakko FX888D price is about 150 new, not used, so that's not so bad.For now I don't solder very often, but I don't like buying junky stuff, only to buy good stuff later. My current soldering station is just a TO-92 sized triac, and a few resistors.ARRRGGGHH.The electronics inside hakko/pace/weller don't justify the cost tho for me, nor the holder. I can make a perfect stand from scrap metal.The tips I have to buy separate anyways, I could get real ones.For me the only real worry about the T12 clones is people saying the handles break easy.IDK, thanks for the input tho.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 08:19:45 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on October 11, 2018, 06:12:07 amRegardless of how much you use it, Quality is the better way to go. It should never just be about the price. Total Cost of Ownership (TOC) needs to be considered. How long it lasts. How well it does the job. How about the aggravation of using a tool that falls just that little bit short of being able to do what you need it to do. Is it worth going cheep to get 80-90% of the functionality and possibly half the lifespan of a quality station? Look at all the people who buy cheep stations and then spend extra money and much extra time modifying the equipment to try to make it better. Thread after thread on the Blog.The could have bought the better station when they factored in the time wasted and the aggravation accumulated. My time is worth money. I don't solder every day, but when I do, I have a Hakko FX-951 and a Metcal MX-500P. (sounds like a commercial) I saved and sold stuff out of the garage to own them and it was worth the sacrifice to have good toys to play with.The 888D will be a major step up from what you are using. I had a 936, the predecessor, for a number of years and it replaced a lot of bad caps in Dell and ELO monitors for my company. The president of my ham radio club asked me for a recommendation on a new soldering station as he was using a firestick and found it inadequate. I recommended the 888D. After using a couple of times, he said to me, "I wish I bought this sooner."My dearly departed father said to me as a young lad, "Buy your tool right and buy it once." You can't say it better than that. One of my cherished possessions is my dad's tack hammer. It is probably 70 years old and will probably last another 70, still with the original handle.

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 08:45:54 pm
content: Hi,I would propose irons I use - JBC CD-2be (245 handle) and JBC DI2950 with Hot Tweezers (bought afterwards for hot tweezers, used). If I would go for an iron now - would definitely go for JBC DDE (two channel control unit) with handle/stand and hot tweezers.I couldn't be happier with these devices. Probably the most anticipated feature (along with quick heat up, sleep mode and lots of power so it solders everything like a butter) is changing cartridges system. I change them quite frequently (as for repairs) with just one hand in a matter of 2-3 seconds.If there are no other decision making concerns (between Pace, Hakko, Weller?, Ersa) - this could be the one. Watch some videos on how it's working. I had no idea it would be so handy.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 10:36:22 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on October 11, 2018, 06:12:07 amI think that FX951 used it's $ 150 or less and FX888D it's 100 new in USA.QuoteThis is interesting, I saw a lot of people complains about that. Why yu need in the display the real temperature?First of all, when the temperature drops you are soldering and at this point you are seeing the pcb, not the screen! The important fact it's if the solder it's wet or not and this it's only dictaminated in the resulted welding wne the component get cold.Secondly, most of the stations that show the real temperature lies. Good ones (expensive ones), lie only a bit and the difference it's negligible, most of chinese clones lie a lot and a vast majority of DIY stations fall in this category. A good solder station garantize that the station it's always near the temperature setted. Just the mayor improvement between old system like 888 and new system with integral cartridges it's that the difference in temperature it's far better managed.You see the station only to confirm in which temperature was presetted/setted the station, and in some occasions you need to change it 25 degrees up (or down). Most of people that I know never use a good station beyond 350 centigrade degrees and never below 250. I use it all the time in 300 and is the preset number 3, if I touch the button change to 325 o 350 o 275 or 250. That's it, I have never set the temperature in, for example, 278 degrees and never see the display.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2018, 10:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: lordvader88 on October 11, 2018, 06:53:21 pmT12 clones are rather nice if you're on a budget. They do work very well. Arguably better than all of the cheap ass irons and most of the expensive ones.The only problem is the power supplies are hooky as fuck and need some work on them usually so they don't kill you to death. I skipped around that problem by buying a DC one, shoving a 12 to 24V DC boost converter in it and running it off an SLA battery. I needed a reasonable portable iron for playing around with antennas outside.My daily driver is a Metcal PS-900 though. That's well worth the money. Much cheaper than the mid range metcals but just as capable. The thing is an insanely good iron.

author: lordvader88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 12:33:32 am
content: I should start making quality soldering stations and sell them at fairer price, and shift the market. Same with a bunch of other EE equipment that's massively over priced.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 06:35:32 am
content: I’d buy one!

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:18:44 am
content: Quote from: Tarloth on October 11, 2018, 10:36:22 pmHe's almost certainly quoting Canadian loonies, which aren't worth as much as US dollars. $150 cad = $115 usd.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 05:20:36 pm
content: It's a really tempting offer!!! :-)

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 11:53:52 pm
content: Very generous of you blueskull that will certainly be an upgrade on what he has.Lordvader88s dream of manufacturing professional quality soldering stations for $100 may be over but you will keep him soldering.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 04:29:32 am
content: In all the areas that I know, someone always supposes that they can manufacture some quality product for a much lower price.They do not take into account the profits of the intermediaries, transport from the factory, stock (money cost), taxes, die-making, support, design, etc. Hopefully Hakko earns 20 dollars for every 888 that he sells! I suspect that they finally earn even less per unit.Believe me lordvader88, take the offer of blueskull, it's actually a marvelous offer. If it were not because I have one I would have accepted it :-)

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 04:51:38 am
content: https://www.hackster.io/sfrwmaker/soldering-iron-controller-for-hakko-t12-tips-on-arduino-f7a888

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 06:32:53 am
content: If you need to do a good alternative to original one it's neccesary take note of some pointsa) NOT use a Switching power supply! No good brands uses a switching power supply. Two problem with it. A transformer isolates galvanically mains from the tip, a Switching power source NO. Second problem, switching DC with PWM generate a lot of high frequency noise, with a transformer the controller blocks entire cycles of AC and the noise it's inexistent because the chop it's at zero crossing.b) Original handle and cable of all big brands are ESD safe. If you choose a clone handle use a metalic one (clever option) or a plastic tha conducts ESD, most of Chinese handles aren't ESD safe and some components are very sensible.c) Again, design the circuit for ESD safe! Several years ago I saw a group in a school pull hair appart because some circuits worked and some not. The failure was aleatory. The only solution was use a ESD solder and a good ESD matt in the desk. All circuits work like a charm after that.If you have the transformer it's a very big saving, If not, think in buy a used original controller, good transformers are not cheap. A good handle it's mandatory, if you can make one with a metallic tube and ground it to the station it's safe and cheap.But not any T12's controller variant can be compared with a product that was designed to last decades and work under severe certifications.It's possible to make a good replacement? Yes, but with some precautions. TS100 cost the same that a new 888D and it's worse than it. Some T12 clone units cost (using a transformer) the same that a used 951 with all the components.

author: benii
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 03:05:26 pm
content: Looking for recommendations in EU area, Im currently looking models ERSA icon-1 325€ or icon nano around 200€, those seem to be easily available, JBC starts from 500€ and pace I didnt really even find.

author: Tarloth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 03:38:51 pm
content: I buy mine Hakko from Batterfly Italy, excellent service and send to all europe and rest of the world!

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 04:01:11 pm
content: Quote from: Tarloth on October 14, 2018, 03:38:51 pmI keep meaning to check Batterfly, I use Dancap in the UK for my Hakko stuff and supplies.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 05:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: benii on October 14, 2018, 03:05:26 pmPace on their website links this distributor but it should be carried by most Pace distributors in Europe or they can at least get it in for you. I believe list is 325€ as well.http://www.prodi.fi/node/30I'm biased obviously as I knew about the Esra stations but went with the new Pace stations when they came out. But anyway here are my thoughts on it:The Pico is not ESD safe and has a pretty average stand so take a good look at it before buying. The Nano has an antistatic design and better stand. Both are similar performance according to Esra (68W according to the manual).They are about half the weight and size of the Pace ADS200 in fact the ADS200s transformer looks too large to fit inside an Esra case. Aside from 120W power the ADS200 has several features those two Esra stations are missing the biggies are no calibration required, aluminum iron, shorter tip to work distance, quick tip swapping. The Pace, Metcal and JBC equivalents are cartridge based irons they all take about 5 seconds to do a tip swap. Pace includes the best tool for the job in my opinion.Looking at the Esra handle the tip distance it seems longer, there is extra plastic taken up by the collar that is used to secure the tip to the iron. You might also want to check the prices on those tips compared to Paces cartridges. The only other thing that strikes me with those two Esras is the temp set digits look super tiny and you might want to check if it has an LCD backlight.If you do decide to get a Pace ADS200, for a little more you can get the instant setback version this has a cable that connects to the station to allow a configurable triggered low temp mode. So good if you are only doing intermittent soldering and want to keep the station on and save power. Ensure you also order some cartridge tips.

author: benii
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 15, 2018, 01:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on October 14, 2018, 05:13:13 pmThanks prodi gave me an ok price for ads200, think I'll go with that, I like its metal construction more.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2018, 03:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on October 14, 2018, 05:13:13 pmErsa, not Esra. And they were comparing the i-CON 1 and the nano, not the pico and the nano.I have the i-CON Nano. The distance from the edge of the grip to the tip of the included 1.6mm chisel is 52mm (ADS200 page states 48mm). Ersa tips are very inexpensive, under €10 for normal types. As long as you also buy an extra ferrule for each tip, changing tips is easily done with no tools, even while hot.The Nano (and pico) LCD is not backlit, which is annoying IMHO. (I modded mine with LED sidelights.) The i-CON 1 and bigger all have backlit graphical LCDs.The Nano (and pico) uses idle-time based setback, with wake up determined by sudden temp plunge from touching the brass wool. Works well most of the time, but when it's in a cooldown phase (e.g. cooling from working temp->setback, or setback->standby), it's expecting a temp drop and won't wake automatically. (Pressing any button wakes it.) The i-CON 1 and bigger use an accelerometer in the handle for setback.Ersa's specs are maddening, in terms of wattages. The nano and pico are both rated 68W, or 80W, depending on where you look. (Is the 80W peak??) The i-CON 1 is rated at 80W — or 150W. The 1 and nano share the same heater module, which is rated 150W. (The pico uses a cheaper plastic-bodied heater.)Ersa is a bit more affordable in Europe, thanks to being a European brand. But it looks like the ADS200 is probably a bit better. For sure, as of right now, Ersa is more readily available in Europe.