Good entry level LCR meter with ESR. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 04:01:48 am
content: What is a good entry level LCR meter with an ESR measuring capability?

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 04:30:36 am
content: You can take a look at the Uni-T UT612. I haven't seen anybody with it, but it looks pretty good if it lives up to it's specs.Who knows about build quality. Could be great. Could be terrible! It's a guessing game on Uni-T. I would like to think that it would be atleast above average.There is also the Tonghui TH2822 which is similar.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 07:34:22 am
content: I dont know what "entry level" means for you but this is what it means for me :http://www.ietlabs.com/lcr-meter/de5000-lcr-meter.htmlthere are lots of clones of this around $150. UT612 is one of them.but the IET is around $300. you choose !

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 07:55:20 am
content: I am using the Agilent U1733C.Have it for one year now and I am satisfied until now.To save batteries you can use it with an ac-adapter - really useful because battery-life is only about 16 hours. (They use these terrible 9 Volt batteries).Greets,Ron

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 01:50:26 pm
content: +1 for the DE-5000. It is extremely accuate at low ohms measurement in series resistance mode. It is true 4 wire sensing with guard, the Agilent is not. Even though the Agilent is .0001 ohm resolution it it not as accurate as the DE-5000 at .001 Ohm resolution.EDIT: only below 500 mOhmEdit: I am not bashing the Agilent, it has a lot of nice user adjustable features and better input protection. I just dont understand why they put .0001 Ohm resolution with no 4 wire kelvin sensing. They obviously know its a problem when the 2 ohm range jumps to +/- 0.7% + 50 counts. AFIK you can't user cal out all the effects of non kelvin leads on LCR measurements.IET tech is checking on the unpopulated input protection areas of the DE-5000 for me, I will post what they come back with.

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 04:14:51 pm
content: For me a good entry level meter would be as cheap as you can go without wasting my money on something that will quickly stop meeting my needs or stop working. I had seen the Agilent at 300 but was thinking the are a top brand and maybe there was something decent available for less.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 04:58:53 pm
content: I have a couple of the kit - ESR meters and also looking to up-grade ?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 05:05:00 pm
content: if you're ok with DIY kits, this one is IMO the best available today:http://kripton2035.free.fr/LCR%20meters/lcr-go-russian.htmland it doesn cost a lot to build.I will post a double side pcb as soon as I have checked it (i.e. made it myself)

author: PbFoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 05:45:29 pm
content: I've got the Uni-T. It was cheap, and has good specs. the build quality of the unit is actually quite good, I have no complaints about the fit and finish. Tweezer probes are not great though, they do work but they are flimsy. The rest of the accessories and carry case are also acceptable. The device is only intended to the Chinese market, so it came with a Chinese manual (all of the markings and display on the device are English). I got a manual for the Mastech LCR meter online, which is based on the same chip, and it's instructions match the operation exactly. In fact, I think the manual comes from the chip supplier and then the logos are just put on by whomever is selling the device with their chip in it.-PbFoot

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 05:59:53 pm
content: Hopefully I will remember , a BLACK FRIDAY SALE ,http://blog.yahoo.com/Bargainblackfriday/articles/679790/indexI will also check out that kit .Thanks John

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 06:00:01 pm
content: Quote from: PbFoot on November 10, 2012, 05:45:29 pmPbFoot! Awesome!Do you think you'd be willing to show us the internals of the Uni-T? Pictures?I'm very curious. Thanks.

author: DonRon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 06:12:37 pm
content: Quote from: perfect_disturbance on November 10, 2012, 04:14:51 pmagreei bought the agilent because i knew that it will fit my needs for a long time.The DE-5000 is very interesting, but cannot find it from the big german sellers.what about two instruments - one lcr-meter and an extra esr-tester?have a look at this:http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_instruments.htmlin germany these lcr and esr meter together cost less than half of the agilent.greet'sRonald

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 06:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: DonRon on November 10, 2012, 06:12:37 pmI have seen those also. I'm not quite sure how those meters are so much significantly smaller than a lot of other meters which do the same thing. I have heard that they are respectable meters. For some reason though, I like the idea of a bigger meter, just for usability.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 06:58:46 pm
content: The UT612 is not a CLONE.MS8218 is a little bit more expensive but you get a kelvin alligator clip too

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 07:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: DonRon on November 10, 2012, 06:12:37 pmthe peak lcr meter does not go down less than 1 ohm. it's not what you can call a lcr meter.the others we are talking here go to the milli-ohm.the peak esr meter is a nice commercial meter. good ratio price/performance.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2012, 10:32:52 pm
content: I have the peak ESR60 meter and that goes down to 0.01 ohms and up to 20 ohms they do a ESR70 which goes up to 40 ohms, I could not see the point of paying the extra for this so I got the 60, it works very well and is dead easy to use, just plug and play as they say.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 10:46:40 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on November 10, 2012, 10:32:52 pmI'm totally OK with you, I said the peak LCR meter is not worth itbut not the peak ESR meter...

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 12:57:28 pm
content: Perfect, you ask for a meter "to suit your needs", but we don't really know whatyourneeds areHere's a long thread on a Mastech MS5308 which certainly suitsmyneeds:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/mastech-ms5308-lcr-meter-with-esr-measurement-on-discount-at-the-moment/There are a whole slew of Capable LCR meters on the market at around this price-point, all using the same two-chip Cyrustek solution. They vary in price, according to the premium that the badging company can charge fortheirbadge... The LCD screens and keyboard layouts all look different, but if you look at the keyboards in particular, you will find the same key top inscriptions on all of the clones.This device (and clones) does four-wire sensing, 100KHz testing, and milliohm ESR measurements.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 01:11:17 pm
content: I wonder how much that Cyrustek chip actually costs. My bet under $20 in 100u; it's just going to have some op-amps and logic on it.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 01:28:05 pm
content: Hi Tom66, I'd imagine the chipset costsway lessthan $20 in volume, but also that they do a bit more than just a few op ampsThe two chips in the set each control Analogue and Digital duties. They are so complete that, keyboards and LCD displays aside, there is really precious little other electronics in these class of instruments (which is rather impressive).

author: perfect_disturbance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 03:43:44 pm
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on November 11, 2012, 12:57:28 pmOK fair enough I'm a hobbist. I have a multimeter (amprobe xr37a) with capacitance and inductance modes. But need some way to measure ESR. I was looking at dedicated ESR meters and they seem to run around 90 dollars. I've read several threads on here where the poster is considering a multimeter with inductance and capacitance and frequently the response is "Don't bother just get a good general meter and an inexpensive LCR meter". So I figured if I was going to get an ESR meter I might as well get one that does everything. I will be using it to check the performance of caps and inductors in repairs and salvaged components. Hope that gives you a better idea.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 03:59:03 pm
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on November 11, 2012, 01:28:05 pmSo, big question is, how long til we can get hold of these, hook a cheap PIC or AVR to one, and a 16x2 LCD, and have a budget LCR meter?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 04:45:38 pm
content: I looked into the ES51920 datasheet and it seems that the chip uses a 0.6V rms measurment voltageso all meters based on it are not suited for in circuit esr measure...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 05:31:23 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on November 11, 2012, 04:45:38 pmIn circuit ESR is always a big problem and 0.6Vrms is just 1Vp-p so unless you've got a parallel diode (quite rare in a power supply, usually only series diodes) it won't pose a problem. And I'll bet 0.6Vrms is with probes open. A low-ESR cap would likely have a low voltage across the test probes.

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 06:02:34 pm
content: I agree. As already argued by tom66, 0.6Vrms probing voltage is NOT a PROBLEM for most situations as compared to meters that were advertised as capable of in-circuit measurements (say, with 0.25Vrms probing voltage). ES51920 has source resistance of above 120 Ohms, which happened to be about the same as my meter. I just did a test at 120Hz with a random 22uF cap. The Vrms crossing the cap is 0.29V. In fact, higher probing voltage should help the chip to reach better measuring accuracy.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 07:30:44 pm
content: is there any (available) detailed datasheet of this ic ?and where can we buy them in small quantity ?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 07:41:38 pm
content: Datasheet is linked above.As for a source... I wouldn't know, best to contact Cyrustek.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 08:27:02 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on November 11, 2012, 04:45:38 pmAgain if IET would use this chip for a LCR meter they pretty sure know it can do in-circuit ESR measurementsQuote from: kripton2035 on November 11, 2012, 07:30:44 pmhttp://www.cyrustek.com.tw/spec/ES51920.pdf

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 09:50:35 pm
content: this datasheet is too condensed... there is no pinout for the ic as an example ...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2012, 11:19:41 pm
content: Also, no data format specification, or how the data gets out. But if that were available, it looks like there's no lower bound on making a low cost ESR meter... the question is, how long will it take until that happens.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 07:51:07 pm
content: In any case it's a hell of a serious datasheet ...

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 07:53:47 pm
content: I can't see the manufacturers willing/bothered to support very small volume or hobbiest builds. Just not worth their time, commercially. And even if they did, you've got to get around a custom display, some sort of case/keyboard... why bother!? Might as well buy one that somebody else has already made. It is difficult to better Chinese manufacturing costs. Sad, but true.And that "data sheet" is clearly just a taster. You'd need a lot more info to put a meter together. Again, I'd imagine that Cryustek probably simply wouldn't bother to release the detail - someone care to try?

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 03:05:07 pm
content: Throwing another choice in the mix for another forum -http://www.mwinstruments.com/MW1008/MW1008_f.html

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 03:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on November 14, 2012, 03:05:07 pmI own one for several years now.nice meter, but bogus software, I often have negative capacity or inductances ...must recalibrate it otoo often, anyway nice one but better build the russian go rlc meter for that money. (or even less)at least you have the software sources and can adapt it the way you want.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 03:45:43 pm
content: Quote from: LaurenceW on November 12, 2012, 07:53:47 pmI contact them, they say this chip is reserved to meter (lcr) companies onlyit has been build for them specifically.there are confidential infos inside and they won't make it public.case closed !

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 04:46:42 am
content: Atlas ESR70 and Mastech MS5308 which one is better??for ESR measurementwhich is the best meter log life, good accuracy, reliability.........

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 05:01:14 am
content: You do not compare the both of them like that,the MS5308 is a LCR meter and that's that.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 09:14:31 am
content: Quote from: jtronix on November 18, 2012, 04:46:42 amif you want to measure capacitors and esr in circuit (for troubleshooting I presume) go for the atlas esr meterif you want to measure all capacitors, inductors, resistors in and out circuit go for the mastechthey are not suited for the same work.

author: jtronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 09:37:07 am
content: atlas ESR70 is available in 200$ in india and Mastech is 250$ .thats why i'm confuse which one should i buy among this two.if any one have Matech MS5308 please upload video demo.

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2012, 11:04:28 am
content: If you only need a tool to measure ESR (both outside and inside circuit), you can buy something like ESR Micro.You can see a review of it here:http://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=2651.0And you can get in touch with the author of the device on badcaps.net forum, his forum nickname is RusMike. You can PM him and ask him about the meter :http://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=12802It would probaby cost around 50-60$ and measures both capacity and ESR with a reasonable accuracy.For the LCR features, I mean measuring inductors and so on, you could go for a cheaper, simpler meter, such as Uni-T UT602 or UT603 which start from about 33$ :http://www.dinodirect.com/inductance-capacitance-meter-multifunctio-uni-t-ut602.html?DDID=3520-616http://dx.com/p/uni-t-ut603-2-7-lcd-digital-inductance-capacitance-tester-red-grey-1-x-9v-138686

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 07:12:29 pm
content: Is this correct with regards to ESR meters?-Multiple frequency range generally allows greater range of caps to be tested.-It needs to be low voltage in order to support in circuit testing.Am looking at the below models. Are these superior to the stand alone ESR meters like the Blue ESR from Anatek for instance?I would like the meter to be accurate as possible and under $200.Anyone have experience with these models? Do they all have Kelvin cable support?CEM DT9935 / Lutron LCR-9184 / GW Instek LCR-916 / UNI-T UT612

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 09:47:59 pm
content: If i may, please consider the MS5308, it's got proper alligator kelvin and SMD probes unlike the UNI-T who only has a SMD probe that looks straight out from the 90s

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2012, 10:28:26 pm
content: Had a look at that one. Not sure I like it.I'm hoping someone has a CEM DT9935 and can comment on it. They sell themon this site herefor about $90 US.Manual here.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2012, 03:08:05 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on November 20, 2012, 09:47:59 pmActually I think you mean the Mastech MS5308 which was the one I thought you were talking about. The MS8218 does not have ESR just capacitance (from what I can see).

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2012, 03:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 20, 2012, 10:28:26 pmWow, that's cheaper than they are selling it in China!!

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2012, 04:44:00 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on November 21, 2012, 03:08:05 pmSorry about that. Got confusedQuote from: iloveelectronics on November 21, 2012, 03:36:16 pmToo good to be true! lol

author: dr_p
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2012, 11:22:41 am
content: Quote from: T4P on November 21, 2012, 04:44:00 pmMaybe this is why:

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2012, 07:10:34 am
content: Prices are coming down on LCR Metershttp://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-9935-Industrial-LCR-Digital-Meter-/230895429783?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c270a897http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT612-Handheld-LCR-Meter-Inductance-Capacitance-L-C-R-DCR-Q-D-ESR-Test-/360546683356?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f241c9dcHurry up Small stock availablehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/New-MS5308-Portable-Handheld-AutoRange-LCR-Meter-100Khz-fit-FLUKE-dual-display-/300611462699?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdd6e62b

author: opablo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2013, 04:50:06 pm
content: Is this an IET or a scam ?http://www.ebay.com/itm/DER-EE-DE-5000-High-Accuracy-Handheld-LCR-Meter-w-TL-21-TL-22-TL-23-New-/151133823417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23304721b9it saysDER EE DE-5000instead ofIET DE-5000Is it the same device ?... From the pictures it looks that it's the real deal... (I compared the pcb to Dave's teardown...)...It's just that 134 us dollars + Argentine's international purchase tax (35%) is for me a lot of money in play

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2013, 05:18:42 pm
content: I believe that DER is the OEM of the iet instrument.I found it here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/der-ee-de-5000-lcr-meter/msg227613/?topicseen#msg227613

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2013, 06:37:49 pm
content: They are essentially the same board layout inside. I've seen different revisions though.The DER EE DE-5000 seems far cheaper

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 06:07:33 pm
content: There's just no question, get the DE 5000. Not only is it the cheapest of the Cyrustek meters, but also the best. True 4 wire connections, 4 wire banana jacks, sturdy highy quality case. In fact, it even beats the Agilent U1733C. I wouldn't even consider a kit. You'll pay maybe half the price of the DE 5000 for a kit, but what you get in return is really useless crap vs. a true test instrument with the DE 5000.I've used mine for two months now and over and over again it has proven its worth. It also beats any multimeter for resistance measurements. It's super accurate at low ohms. The 100kHz range is indispensable when you're building switching regulators (and of course for measuring ESR as per spec). The 600mV measuring voltage is not a problem for in-circuit measurements, because that's just the open circuit voltage. As soon as you have any sort of impedance, that voltage drops a lot.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2013, 07:59:08 pm
content: I measured in circuits capacitors with the auto mode of the der-ee-de-5000 and was very pleased with the resultsit measured accurately the esr and the capacity !the only drawback I can find to this meter is that I find it quite slow but overall it's an excellent meter.

author: hutale
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 08:11:39 pm
content: Here is an LCR meter with ESR:http://lcr.is-best.net/en/

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2014, 08:52:43 pm
content: The DER DE-5000 has become my "go to" component meter now. It's really the best $ you'll spend on a piece of bench equipment given price/features/performance.

author: i4004
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 01:45:43 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 16, 2013, 07:59:08 pmthis just means you didn't ecounter a circuit which has few caps in parallel.in those cases you need to desolder caps for real results...so that feature that's often mentioned is more of a gimmick...

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 01:10:42 pm
content: Quote from: i4004 on October 15, 2014, 01:45:43 amStill learning here , but I thought I read in my studies that with a little math , we can measure components in series & parallel , when trouble shooting a known circuit should have a good spec. - if not then measure fewer components till we are down to , lets say a group of caps in either parallel of series , then remove a leg of what may be the most likely - as example if a cap has signs of leaking , bulged etc. - pull that one and now check the rest ?Also in other fields like auto repair with batteries , its about 98% one cells goes bad 1st [ and now memory ?? ] it has almost always the cell closest the positive post - not sure on something like electrical components in series or parallel if its more common to have one end be the 1st to die or not ?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 03:31:32 pm
content: Quote from: i4004 on October 15, 2014, 01:45:43 amwhen you have lots of caps in parallel, if there is a bad esr cap, it will be compensated by the other caps and won't preventthe device from starting. the problem is elsewhere in that configuration.I dont know of ANY esr meter that can detect one bad cap among good caps in parallelyou always have to desoldier one by one, and again if you find one bad cap it will not prevent the device from starting.

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 10:34:07 pm
content: I wasn't suggesting that we could find the one bad cap in a group , but measure the group and using math for how they are connected and compare the answer with the markings and the markings total , do not match the measure then at least one in the group is bad , and maybe even indicate there may be multiple bad caps by comparing the total & the measure ?

author: i4004
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2014, 10:25:33 pm
content: that would suggest that you actually know what the esr of that 'branch' should be, but do you know, esp. in case you just have the faulty equipment?say it's 10-20% off.10-20% could be capacitor tolerances esp. for capacitance value.as for esr, those caps that fall apart (usually chinese) where will you get spec sheet on them?as for the math approach, that would be too complex (not talking about just caps here but the whole circuits..but goes for caps too, u don't always know what else is connected there and how will it affect the esr reading...), but that doesn't prevent me from contemplating better ways to troubleshoot than desoldering stuff, but again, it will be hard without functioning device (to compare) and electric diagram(heck, sometimes block diagram serves a better purpose than electric diagram that has no oscilograms and voltage test points), as in the end it boils to reverse engineering ie figuring out first how it works, and then what's wrong with it.hard because of multilayer pcbs where tracing (what's connected were) is not that easy...