Chip Quiz! Identify these chips & win FREE THANKS! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 10:11:16 am
content: What are they? What do they do? In case they are ASICs, from which device?Prize: One big THANK YOU for each unambiguously identified item.Ready??? Go!!!Clue: I have no idea

author: CaptDon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2025, 02:49:27 pm
content: The ICQ number on the Motorola chip looks valid and would lead you to believe it is an A to D converter. With all of those pins it could be at least a 10 bit version. The SC 3044 is sounding familiar, perhaps from the same folks who created the SC-01 phoneme speech I.C. which was used in some of the Gottlieb pinball machines, I think 'Mars, God of War' was one of them. Real SC-01 chips are near impossible to find. I think I only own one which is resting in a home made speech board.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 07:27:58 pm
content: Thanks for sharing your ideas, ALF !What does this ICQ number on the Motorola chip actually mean? I only know the messenger app ICQ and I think it would be too easy to assume that the A-D at the end is for an A/D converter, but you never know.The NPC chip is being sold in several places on the internet, but even those sellers don't seem to know what they are actually selling. Further information is missing.Here's what I just figured out. NPC stands for Nippon Precision Circuits which is part of SEIKO since 2005. In fact NPC was incorporated in 1975, the date code of the chip says it was made in 1980. I never heard of NPC before, but it is still around these days. It's now called SEIKO NPC CORPORATION, and luckily their website explains their history and products in detail:https://www.npc.co.jp/en/company/history/1975: "Development of the world’s first PLL CMOS IC for CB (citizen’s band) radio"The IC in the (low res) photo seems VERY close to mine. Unfortunately the writing is too small and blurry.1976: "Development of the world’s first quartz lock IC for record players" - wouldn't required this many pins I believe1978: "Development of CMOS LSI for a clock running at 1V" - wouldn't required this many pins either1983: "Development of the PLL for 200-MHz CMOS LSI" - too lateSo my guess would be the PLL CMOS IC for CB radio, hence the "C" in its name. Now, if we could get our hands on a schematic of one of those old CB radios from the 1980s then we would know for sure. The S, which is still being kept until today, is probably for silicon or for their founders surname "Seikosha". But on the other hand, one of their PLL chips was called PLL 08A. So their part numbers seem to reflect (at least partially) the function somehow, one way or another.Any further ideas?

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2025, 07:50:53 pm
content: This resource might help:https://bitsavers.org/components/ami/_dataBooks/https://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/https://bitsavers.org/components/

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 07:51:17 pm
content: This is a HUGE archive, at least 1.6TB of data! Deserves a big THANK YOU! This is a real gold mine.According to the AMI naming convention, all their 'S'tandard ICs start with 'S'. In the AMI data book from 1985 they mention that AMI already produced over 3000 custom ICs by that time. So I think it's safe to say that the AMI C13695 is a 'C'ustom ASIC. Would still be interesting to know in which device(s) it had been used.Regarding the NPC SC3044, I think I should revoke my earlier assumption as I doubt now that a PLL IC for CB radio can have 40 pins. Even if it had the 2x 7-segment display drivers built in, there's still another 26 pins left - too many I believe. It's likely an IC for something else. Nothing to be found in the 'bitsavers' archive either. Back to square one. Could it be for a clock device? Too many pins again. Not much else they mention in their company history that could be a match, apart from the small blurry photo.The Motorola LSC433310P from 1997 has the 'C' in its name just like the other 2 above. Custom ASIC again?Okay, so the 2nd line is the customer's name or probably their custom text. I found another one carrying the DUAL logo, which is a home entertainment brand (https://www.ebay.de/itm/260879815813). There's a company from Hong Kong named Team Concepts Electronics Ltd who made kids laptops at that time and registered countless of kids computer trademarks at the USPTO. One of those computers:https://www.ebay.at/itm/234530037793In the top right corner you can see the TeamConcepts logo.Maybe the MABE chip came from the same device? There's no clue whatsoever. It's blank underneath as well.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 08:02:31 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on February 27, 2025, 07:51:17 pmMy guess is its a masked 6805 MCU. We made a few of those for Team Concepts, and they usually carried the customer's codes.

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 09:55:45 pm
content: The SC3044 is a timer (as in programmable in clock) chip typically used in video recorders of that era.

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2025, 10:15:41 pm
content: About the lsc43331op team concepts icq3250a-d chip.There is a dump of the ROM found in a "Laptop for childs" here:https://git.redump.net/mame/plain/src/mess/drivers/comquest.c?id=25db822531d1e3533f9c65baa656a6b548a30082It says 'only chip on board'You are on the right path for that one.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2025, 04:22:06 am
content: https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Television/80s/Television-Servicing-UK-1982-12.pdfQuote

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:06:27 am
content: Fantastic! Thanks a lot guys! I'm very much impressed.@coppiceBig THANK YOU!That already helped. With that info maybe I would be able to wire it up some time in the future, just for fun.@SwakeBig THANK YOU!Amazing! I have no idea how you were able to find this schematic for the NPC. I could build my own programmable clock with that now, if I wanted to.Also found the "dump" of the Team Concepts chip now by a Google search for that ICQ number. He says it would be the only chip on board of a ComQuest A4 Power Printer, which in deed is a printer for a kids learning laptop.Here's someone selling laptop + printer for just 20 EUR (pick-up only):https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/comquest-tv-laptop-lerncomputer/2477293733-23-301This is actually the only Google image search result I am getting for that printer.@fzabkarBig THANK YOU!I have no idea how you managed to dig that one out. Neither Google nor Bing spit at a link to this old TELEVISION magazine from 1982. It's certainly a very interesting read. Found it mentioned on PDF page 44.Summary:NPC SC3044 - programmable clock IC used in VCRs (JVC/Ferguson)LSC433310P - ASIC for Team Concepts/ComQuest A4 Power Printer (attached to kids learning laptop)AMI C13695 - ASIC for what device?MABE - ASIC for what device?Will we ever be able to find out about the last two? I tried visual searches for the MABE chip on Google, Bing and TinEye - no matching results. Maybe other visual search engines exist that I am not aware of, so I attached a hi-res image of the MABE below, in case someone knows another one. It needs to be on the internet in the first place, but likely this one is the very first photo of it on the net.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:23:33 am
content: it looks like some sort of electronic chipyou can try and probe it, it could be something as simple as a DIP capacitor, resistor network, or something like a quad transistor switch, or diode array.

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:25:25 am
content: Found the schematic on Archive.org after a hint from another place.The MABE chip is having only 32 pins, very unusual... unless it is a ROM

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:27:35 am
content: Is there any marking on the bottom of the chips?

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:42:08 am
content: I looked again with a magnifying glass.The AMI chip really is completely blank underneath.The MABE chip however, I did find tiny writing inside the 2 round indentations. Left side H4, right side KOREA 1 (or I). Nothing else.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 09:24:55 am
content: Tried to talk to it with my programmer (resistance pin 32 to pin 16 is 298 kOhms)AT27C010-DIP32 ? => chip ID mismatch: signature returned was 0Eh 0Eh (unable to find on the net)Auto-Identify => failed, but ID returned this time was 2Ch 01h (again, was unable to find on the net)My other programmer is currently out of service, waiting for spare part.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 03:54:06 pm
content: Perhaps the manufacturer of the MABE chip could be identified by its physical characteristics? Of the following images, the Samsung chip is the closest in terms of the mould marks. KOREA?https://richelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/8/Samsung-KM23C4000P-15-4M-Bit-512Kx8-CMOS-MASK-ROM-32Pin-P-DIP-OMA037D-253202950618.JPGhttps://image.made-in-china.com/202f0j00ivelouaFJEpz/A29040b-70f-Amic-Uniform-Sector-Flash-Memory-Chip-Memory-IC-DIP-32-Integrated-Circuit-Electronic-Components.webphttps://shop.tvsat.com.pl/environment/cache/images/500_500_productGfx_64503/MX28F1000PC-12_U-28F1000.jpghttps://image.ceneostatic.pl/data/products/60018307/p-atmel-otp-rom-5v-1mx8-90ns-dip32-ot27c08090.jpghttps://a.allegroimg.com/s1024/0cb99a/670d4914407480c7f817123faaa1This is interesting:https://i0.wp.com/richelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/8/Samsung-KM23C4000P-15-4M-Bit-512Kx8-CMOS-MASK-ROM-32Pin-P-DIP-OMA037D-253202950618-3.JPGhttps://i0.wp.com/richelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/8/Samsung-KM23C4000P-15-4M-Bit-512Kx8-CMOS-MASK-ROM-32Pin-P-DIP-OMA037D-253202950618.JPGhttps://richelectronics.co.uk/product/samsung-km23c4000p-15-4m-bit-512kx8-cmos-mask-rom-32pin-p-dip-oma037d

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:09:40 pm
content: This looks pretty darn close, mate! Thanks a lot for your effort!I just went through a few of my other ICs and noticed quite a lot of them have those mold markings. I've seen Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan so far. Motorola, Microchip, Atmel, ST they all have it. Oh, wait! Samsung KM23C2000-15 that I just found in my box has the same kind of markings (KOREA 1 and G2)! I think we're onto something here! I'll send photos after dinner

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 27, 2025, 08:02:31 pmYou worked for Motorola?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:16:13 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 05:09:40 pmThe country on the package is where the device was packaged. A huge amount of that happens in cheap labour countries. It used to be a labour intensive job, but has now been so heavily automated it employs very few people. However, the work still mostly takes place in cheap labour countries..... yeah, Taiwan is now an advanced country, but the packaging industry started there when it was very poor.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 05:14:43 pmYep, in the same group that used to work with Team Concepts on its 6805 based projects, although I had nothing to do with them.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:41:07 pm
content: I checked supported devices of 3 programmers now, none of them supports Samsung KM23xxxxx devices, only KM28. So the KM23 must be custom made. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that this is a masked ROM, so basically a dumb device? Then there should be a way to give it some address and read out some data!?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on March 01, 2025, 05:17:58 pmWhat did you do for them if you don't mind my asking? I started out in automotive and back then, Motorola was king in that segment. We used a lot of masked 6801 parts. I still have some of Hitachi's CMOS OTP parts prior to Motorola's lawsuit with them (if memory serves me). Eventually we used the 6811, then the 68331/2. The last projects I worked on used a PPC. After a few decades, I changed my career where my only ties to automotive are driving to/from work.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 05:52:24 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 05:41:07 pmhttp://www.bitsavers.org/components/macronix/1993_Macronix_Memory_Data_Book.pdf(page 138)MX23C4000 = LH534300 (Sharp), uPD23C4000 (NEC), TC534000 (Toshiba), HN62314 (Hitachi), MB834000 (Fujitsu), M5M23401 (Mitsubishi), KM23C4000 (Samsung)https://www.datasheetarchive.com/?q=KM23C4000(Samsung datasheets)These mask ROMs often came with CE/CE* and OE/OE* options that enabled them to be paralleled without special OE/CE logic. That is, one chip could be selected when CE is low, and the other when CE is high.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:17:58 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 01, 2025, 05:48:13 pmAutomotive semiconductors have always been an extremely specific product line, with a number of tough goals for robustness and quality (e.g. AEQ100 qualification) requirements. If you can't be big in that segment, you don't enter it. The overhead to be there can be high, and you'll need to make a lot of products that are very specific to automotive needs, and won't sell anywhere else. If you can be big in that segment you have to put up with prices that SUCK badly! The upside is the volumes are quite big and usually pretty stable. That's why there is a very limited list of automotive semiconductor makers, and people like Toyota freaked out when they thought they might lose Renesas to bankruptcy. Swapping to another supplier is hard for them. Vendors and customers in a deadly embrace is horrible. Later in my career I worked for another semiconductor maker, with divisions in the automotive space, who developed an MCU line for the car industry. They had samples working smoothly with customers, and then killed the whole thing off because the potential prices were so bad. TSMC eventually developed automotive qualified processes, but I guess its OK for them. They are somewhat isolated from the brutal front line.I assume this is why the car makers had so much trouble when the industry was fab limited, and they'd cut back their orders. With sucky prices the last things you want filling your throughput limited fabs is low value automotive work. Long term agreements usually secure the flow of parts from the car maker's side, but they'd scaled back orders. The people with fabs had options.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:21:51 pm
content: @fzabkarThanks! Yeah, things getting very interesting now.Attached the photos as promised. I am reading in the Samsung MOS Memory Databook from 1993 just now.Looks promising!

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:30:19 pm
content: Oh and by the way:I think no sane manager would set up a chip factory in expensive South-Korea - unless you're a South-Korean company! It is a highly developed country, maybe even more advanced than Japan in several ways. Speaking from personal experience, I've been to both.So the SAMSUNG guess was really spot on, fzabkar!Another remark that most people do not know (unless you have Korean friends): See the logo on that chip? Any idea what SAMSUNG actually means? Yes, it means THREE (SAM) STARS (SUNG). Pretty easy that Korean, huh?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:40:50 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 06:30:19 pmIn the early days of semiconductors South Korea was a very poor country. Wealth came quite recently to them. So much has changed in Asia during the life of the semiconductor industry, Hong Kong is too expensive for semiconductor plants now, but there used to be a huge amount of package done there when it was labour intensive and HK labour was cheap.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 06:41:10 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 06:30:19 pmI lived in the ROK for 8 months about 40 years ago. I've been to the Samsung Electronics factory at Suwon. As for Korean being easy, I learned their alphabet during a Saturday afternoon.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 07:11:50 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on March 01, 2025, 06:17:58 pmWe used that 6811E9 as a watchdog processor into the 90s (332 era). It was because of my extensive use of Motorola parts that I used them in so many home projects. I don't remember having too many problems with their parts. Seems like maybe the 331/2 had a cold start problem early on.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 07:41:30 pm
content: Sometimes we have to go to great lengths to succeed in life...I could basically rule out all others. The rest is trial and error.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 07:54:44 pm
content: Measure the resistance between the An, OE, CE pins and ground and Vcc. Hopefully the An pins measure the same while the OE and CE pins measure differently. Moreover, if you find that the high order addresses are NC, then this would support the idea that this is a ROM.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:08:28 pm
content: I just managed to read it out! It's from an Olivetti Office ink jet printer!Dump *might* be incomplete though, need to fiddle a bit more. I spoke to it as an AT27C010 and skipped the ID mismatch warning.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: fzabkar on March 01, 2025, 07:54:44 pmAlready in the table. Or did I get you wrong?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:13:06 pm
content: MABE rings a bell, but I can't remember where from. Now you've found its something to do with Olivetti printers I'm just more puzzled.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 08:12:33 pmI thought that you were having trouble determining the NC pins. Anyway, if you upload the ROM dump, we could look for checksums or other structures. That way we will know if you have a complete dump.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:28:28 pm
content: Looks pretty much complete to me to be honest...

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:37:34 pm
content: ...and believe it or not, the other chip (KM23C2000-15 - 2Mbit) is from an Olivetti Office printer as well! It seems to contain font data.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:44:22 pm
content: Some people have uploaded Olivetti ROMs / EPROMs to ElektroTanya ...https://elektrotanya.com/showresult?what=olivetti&kategoria=&kat2=all&page=0#res

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 08:56:36 pm
content: Yeah. It's time to sign off for today.I think real Aussies don't need any sleep, or do they? I must have kept you awake the whole night!

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2025, 09:32:55 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 01, 2025, 08:08:28 pmThat is a nice findvery nostalgic for me as I worked for Olivetti in the '90ies.I'm more inclined towards an electronic typewriter than an ink jet printer.The physical chip format (DIL 40 and 32) does not match with the era of the inkjet (quad packages and SMD) from what I remember.Also the word 'Office' in the name indicates this it is not from their computer division (= Olivetti Systems & Networks) but from the division that sold office solutions like typewriters, copiers and calculators (=Olivetti Office).

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 08:31:48 am
content: That could be. I found the words "NOZZLE" and "Nozzles test", "print cartridge", but also RS232 status lines and baud rates. So likely a combined inkjet printer/fax ("HP DJ+ EMULATION"). I did not find a device name in the dump unfortunately.That's a coincidence you even worked for that company. Does O.C.D. S.A. ring a bell? Contained as well...Final result :Mystery solved.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 02:53:09 pm
content: Perhaps a resistance map of the AMI chip might reveal something?

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 03:15:48 pm
content: Had the same idea and already probed around briefly this morning. Couldn't find a conclusive reference point (Vcc or Vss). It doesn't seem to be a ROM (maximum pin count I saw was 32), might be a custom µProcessor, possibly based on the S2000 family (which has 40 pins). Later in the day (if I'm still in the mood, after that exhausting session last night) I might probe around a bit more.Made me think if I shouldn't develop a test device to do this kind of work for me in the future. It would measure across all possible pin combinations, so in this case 40-1=39, so (39*(39+1))/2 = 780 possible pin pairs (hope that's correct now). Then the software could automatically mark the lowest resistance pairs and make pin groups that are within say 5% tolerance. That would be a great tool!

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 03:40:51 pm
content: Quote from: rg58 on March 02, 2025, 08:31:48 amA very small bell very far away. Something with WAN and telecom stuff but really nothing more. Is that it?

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 03:59:45 pm
content: Just a wild stab ...This IC has Vdd on pin #10 and Vss on pin #1:https://recybot.free.fr/documents/Datasheets/S10430_1.pdf(S10430 22-Note Keyer / Divider LSI)It was custom branded for several manufacturers of musical instruments:https://www.wdgreenhill.co.uk/product-page/s10430-22-note-keyer-divider-lsiIt has a part number of C11512, plus the customer's part number.

author: rg58
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 07:57:21 pm
content: Thanks for digging around! Didn't work.Pin 36 is something, but theminimumreading was around 10Mohms when probing against all other pins. Seems still quite high. Referenced to pin 36 (+), some pins show around 10...11M, others are in the region of 20M.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2025, 08:36:41 pm
content: That's disappointing. I was hoping that you could at least find the Vcc/Gnd pair. That produced 300K in the ROM.