Crazy price for a 10MHz pulse generator (£15 !)? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 06:49:41 pm
content: I've heard that B&K aren't that well respected as a brand? Not heard why though.Anyway, i saw their 4030 precision pulse generator for sale on Farnell for £450, then on ebay USA for around £250, then i found them (brand new) for £15!If anyone wants to pick one up i got it from here :https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/b-k-precision-4030-pulse-generator-10-mhz/2004266?PubID=UY&persist=true&ip=no&keyword=&&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JXiBRCpARIsAGqF8wVoKkpz4GXD__Zd40QnxDbRHU-4s6rARcmAzvQl9JG4v4OzYi1aKvEaAqbjEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.dsHere is the same model at Farnell :https://uk.farnell.com/b-k-precision/bk4030/pulse-generator-led-1-ch-10mhz/dp/2843455?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JXiBRCpARIsAGqF8wVixRtZNPUJN1jI961dVx0M_yhJTrlHDGqx_72Ow4u8KHOSYqXBWiEaAp4eEALw_wcB&gross_price=true&CAGPSPN=pla&CAWELAID=120173390002798472&CAAGID=14406255429&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-2843455&CATCI=pla-41477300408and Ebay USA :https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Genuine-B-K-Precision-4030-10MHz-Pulse-Generator-With-4-Digit-LED-Display/392094400743?epid=1700312512&hash=item5b4aa5c0e7:g:~zsAAOSw2E5beyrc:rk:1:pf:0No idea why the massive price-gap but glad i got one!

author: BroMarduk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 07:41:14 pm
content: Ha. Switch pricing to United States and USD and it goes up to $403 USD. Goes back cheap again if I switch back to GBP. I'm guessing a mistake, but maybe just a Brexit discount.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 07:51:35 pm
content: Seems worth a punt. I wonder if they'll honor it (not too proud to accept a Brexit discount!).

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 08:00:01 pm
content: When you switch to one of their other branches the price is over 400 pounds. It obviously a pricing error.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 08:04:11 pm
content: Usually ships in 29 days, so they have plenty of time to realize their error.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 08:22:45 pm
content: This always depends on whether or not they hire dumbasses or care. Usually one of the two outcomes comes into play so worth a punt.Couple of success stories:Pack of 1000 MRS25 resistors on RS a while ago for £2.50. Thought hey I get through a lot of 1K and 100R ones so had one of each. Box of 4,000 of each turned up! About 2 weeks later I felt a little guilty so I called them up and they said "meh, keep them". That's £288 (current price) of resistors for £5.Another supplier had Amphenol panel mount BNCs for £0.18 each (rather than £1.80 each). Figured I'd buy 50 of them. Delivered. Was called about a week later asking if I would pay the difference of £81. I said no. They closed my trade account. So I opened another one under my other limited company.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2019, 08:27:15 pm
content: Tried to order. When I changed to Portugal in the last page of checkout, the price went first to 500 something and then to 700 Euro...CheersVitor

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 06:54:49 pm
content: I've received confirmation of the order, legally they have to honour the purchase if they realise the mistake.I'll keep updating the thread.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 06:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 21, 2019, 08:22:45 pmWhat?!O_oThey have closed your business account for their mistake?

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:18:13 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on January 22, 2019, 06:54:49 pmNo. It isn't as simple as that. The point at the order is accepted and you enter a binding contract doesn't necessarily mean when an order confirmation email is sent. If the price is obviously a mistake then it can also be canceled by the seller.Readhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/10602641/Price-glitches-Do-retailers-have-to-honour-pricing-mistakes.htmlandhttps://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/if-something-is-advertised-at-the-wrong-price/Due to the long 29 day lead time, this is obviously a non-stocked item and they're ordering from their suppliers. If somebody doesn't notice the mistake by that point then this company is useless.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:26:53 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 22, 2019, 06:59:07 pmNot only that. Amount of money is ridiculously low for them to even bother about that. For example farnell won't return returned items back into stock even if package was unopened, even if it's some expensive shit.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:28:38 pm
content: I understand that why is that, however I see banning a user from buying due totheirmistake as a completely different thing.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 07:35:34 pm
content: Very often corporations will eat their mistake just for goodwill but the notion that they are bound by law to eat their mistakes is not so and if it is worth it to them they could come after the buyer even after it has been paid and delivered. How can anyone think that you would be forced to sell your house for a dollar just because there was a mistake in the contract?In law there are two issues. One is that for there to be a valid contract there has to be a "meeting of the minds" which is generally reduced to paper but if the written contract very obviously contains a mistake then there is no "meeting of the minds" and the contract would be deemed null and void.Another issue is the concept ofunjust enrichment.Alsohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistake_in_English_contract_lawAnd lastly, honest people would point the issue out to the seller rather than try to take advantage of a possible mistake, just like they would return excess change handed to them by mistake.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:22:57 pm
content: Hi makermanThanks for the tip. I just ordered two B&K pulse generators:2 x Pulse generators £25.66Shipping £13.50VAT £7.83TOTAL £46.99UKDelivery up to 29 daysI expect that the price is so low because Cole-Palmer have just squired a heap of these pulse generators from a broker. And the broker would have got them as a result of a frustrated order or as as bankrupt stock, or similar.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:25:30 pm
content: Good luck

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:30:01 pm
content: I'm not able to order one, as it reverts to the higher price. Is anyone willing to order one for me and forward it to me? If it turns out to be a pricing error I don't mind to waive the order, but if it's correct I could use a pulse generator.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 09:42:17 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 22, 2019, 09:30:01 pmYou don't say where you are- why not enable your flag.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 11:34:12 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 22, 2019, 09:42:17 pmI've found that not displaying a flag helps preventing people projecting location based assumptions on you. The fact that it drives people who tend to do this nuts is a nice bonus.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2019, 11:50:53 pm
content: Seems us Aussies will make up for your few cheap onesThat is over $1000 USD for those interested.A couple of years ago Hobbyking made a stuff up and slipped a decimal point on a RTF Glider. I did only buy two at the time which they honored and in Australia under consumer law they would have had to.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:16:38 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 22, 2019, 11:34:12 pmYou just shot yourself in the foot then.

author: TERRA Operative
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:00:41 am
content: Someone wanna buy one for me and ship to Japan?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:27:02 am
content: Quote from: spec on January 23, 2019, 07:16:38 amOh, I wasn't talking about you. Sorry if I gave you that impression.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:53:25 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 21, 2019, 08:00:01 pmI once got Fluke 3000 kit meters (meter + extras) for something like $50ea from RS Components.It was a website pricing error and they had them in stock. I ordered all the Sydney stock (30 or something) and after that appeared to work I order like 100 or more from RS UK stock.I deliberately avoided buying more than they had in stocking knowing that the buyers would surely see the error and sort it before they shipped.Got a phone call from them saying they goofed the price and it's way below their buy price (no kidding, it was something like AU$700 retail), I played dumb and said I needed that many to equip my factory and I made a legitimate purchaseI think they honored another 50 or so but declined the rest.They got delivered and I slowly sold them off on ebay for a large profit

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:59:59 am
content: If I was in the UK I'd order 100 of them and see what happens. Worst thing is you get your money back, best case you make a killing on ebay.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:09:15 am
content: Congratulations if you get it. For those unaware, Cole Parmer is unaware of the word "inexpensive". Or "helpful".

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:23:49 am
content: I have ordered two, so Terra, if they arrive in 1.5 months time, Ill PM you and we can sort out postage from Sweden. I have ordered them to be delivered to a mates house in the UK, so I can have it sent directly to you from him....Just need to sit and wait now.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:42:25 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 22, 2019, 09:30:01 pmI have ordered a small quantity to resell, i don't mind doing you a cheap price.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:50:11 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2019, 09:42:25 amLovely!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:52:03 am
content: I can't help thinking that they're going to be alerted by the unusual purchasing pattern. I bet they don't sell that many in the UK normally.One-offs for personal uses is one thing. Purchasing in quantity for profit feels rather different.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:57:35 am
content: Well I've jumped on the bandwagon too.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 09:58:03 am
content: well they will certainly notice a run on them, I have bought 30 as I do not wish to over gamble or take the piss. I'll keep one, let Scram have one cheap and I won't mark the rest up stupid because I want to shift them. I could have bought 400 units if I was going on a self serving rampage and maxed out my credit cards.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 10:02:43 am
content: Similar consumer protections to Oz seem to apply. Advertise a wrong price to bad for them it seems.https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/if-something-is-advertised-at-the-wrong-price/

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 10:06:25 am
content: Simon: if you get them I'll cover your expenses x2.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:56:35 pm
content: The price is still wrong after several days. The lights are on but nobody is home? There is a moody Google review of them from last week from a temp worker so its not just an empty shell. How clueless are these people running the UK store?Before anybody thinks I'm on some kind of high horse regarding this, the main reasons I'm not jumping on the bandwagon is that I don't want/need a pulse generator and selling on eBay has always been a massive headache for meQuote from: Simon on January 23, 2019, 09:58:03 am30 isn't taking the piss?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 01:59:27 pm
content: Look I could of bought 400

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 23, 2019, 08:27:02 amNo no, not at all. It is just that if I had known where you are, I might have been able to get a pulse generator shipped to you.But, on a general point, it is really interesting to see where people are at. It also helps with posts too: mains voltage and frequency, safety standards, components available to a person, how complex you make the wording for non native English speakers and so on.I have often sweated doing a design in reply to a persons post, only to have them say that the the design is no good because they can only get the most basic components in their local. It turned out that another OP didn't even have a mains supply.It is great, that on forums like EEV, you know that you talking to people from so many different countries: China, Scotland, US, Japan, France, Greenland, Australia, Brazil, Antarctica... all within the space of a few minutes. Without the flag it is a bit like talking to a brick wall.Go on, enable your flag- you sound like you could handle any flak.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 03:56:01 pm
content: At our company, when a project finishes, in the main, they just dump everything currently in stock. The reason is that it is too expensive to do otherwise.At one time we were designing, and building marine Radars on a mini production line, and there was resistors, capacitors, transformers, you name it, scattered all over the place. At the end of the day the cleaners would just put the whole lot in the bin.And when that marine radar production finished all the items in stores, including the production test equipment, that was not from the test equipment department, also went in the bin.That was on the commercial side. On the military side everything that was surplus, and there was tons of it, was junked. In one case hundreds of silicon transistors were dumped because there was a minor deficiency in the paper work. That was in the days when a transistor cost the earth. I still remember the part number: 2N930. For years all by home projects used Mil Spec 2N930s.The company's general stores had a load of old 74, 74S, 74LS TTL chips which were going to be dumped. I bought them for nominal sum and made a list which I sent to a few brokers, who got into a bidding war: I ended up doing quite well out of that operation.The message is that there are many reasons why items are cheap, not just errors in the price.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 07:04:47 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 23, 2019, 03:56:01 pmI've got boxes and boxes of chips in tubes from a local manufacturer, leftovers and misorders from projects/prototypes, some lovely parts in there which I really must catalogue.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 23, 2019, 07:04:47 pmThat's the problem- knowing what you have got, and then knowing where it is

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2019, 08:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 23, 2019, 08:28:29 pmI know the nice stuff and exactly where it is, the more common stuff (tube after tube of 741 op-amps which I should give away) is a bit vague, quantities are also a bit vague for everything but there's more LT1013 than I will use in a lifetime for instance

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 10:43:14 am
content: Anyone interested in getting one for free?I pay for two, shipped to your UK address and you send me one (I pay the shipping to me, too).PM to me if interested.Regards,Vitor

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:25:59 am
content: PM sent.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:33:37 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 24, 2019, 10:43:14 amJust in case: check the import duties. Also when you order the pulse generator, you have to declare where the final destination of the pulse generator is. Just thought I would mention.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:40:56 am
content: Quote from: spec on January 24, 2019, 11:33:37 amisn't portugal in the EU ?

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:54:04 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 24, 2019, 11:40:56 amAh yes, good point. Still worth checking though.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 11:56:24 am
content: If they are then there is no duty because the EU of which we are still a member is a tariff free zone between member states and you can also handle VAT across borders. When I was VAT registered I would give my VAT number to an EU non UK supplier and they would remove the VAT from the price.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 24, 2019, 11:56:24 amI'm no expert, but isn't it the case that there are effectively tarriffs on some items, like cars for example. The name for the free may be post office/customs handling charge or the like. AFAIK electronic test equipment is a sensitive area.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:08:03 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 24, 2019, 12:04:55 pmBut there are no customs because it's a free trade area. From the UK I only have to put a customs declaration on the package if it goes outside of the EU. The post office may ask what is inside in order to comply with their own terms and conditions of what they are prepared to carry.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:11:20 pm
content: Do they actually ship from the UK though? It's not clearly stated that they do, for example the order page says this: "To be Fulfilled By: Cole-Parmer (International) ; USD $"And if you look at the FAQ they list their pickup location in the US. I mean it's still not a bad deal even after the customs charges, just saying.Edit: Nevermind, I guess they do ship from the UK: "In the event that we cannot provide shipping charges during checkout (example: items that are oversized, drop-shipped from the manufacturer, or shipping outside the UK), final shipping charges will be added at the time the order ships."WELL. I clicked to the place order page and the price had updated. Great.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:15:50 pm
content: If it is sold by a UK company that is importing them then that is their problem to deal with imports. If they are a UK company and they do not add any charge to the sale price they cannot add any after.For example if you buy something from Farnell stocked in the USA they tell you upfront that they will add £15.95 + VAT to your order to cover their costs of shipping from the USA and no doubt any customs handling. You don't pay random charges on their goods shipped from the UK that they have imported.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:17:46 pm
content: Hi,David and Simon, thank you for your offers, but I have gone with another offer. Sorry.@all: I am already covered, please don't send further offers.Regarding Portugal: we are in the EU and hopefully the puls generator, if ordered today, will arrive before March, 29th... This is the day when UK might exit the EU the hard way (I doubt it, though).As both countries are within the EU so no customs apply.Even after the Brexit it remains to be seen how customs will be handled - probably there would be a large (2 years?) transition period.Regards,Vitor

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:18:05 pm
content: It's all academic now, they updated the price just in the last 5 minutes. Someone let us know if they won't honor they order made at the lower price.Nevermind, I guess it is still the lower price.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:24:44 pm
content: still showing £15.40 for me.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 12:50:40 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on January 22, 2019, 07:35:34 pmYes, but I think you are a voice in the wilderness here.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: GK on January 24, 2019, 12:50:40 pmThe UK has become a dog eat dog society thanks to various factors including our politicians. Everyone is paid like shit and everyone wants to get one better than everyone else. This company clearly do not give a toss about their employees as they have probably employed someone hardly competent to fill out the website because they are cheaper than a competent person or they have too few employees or like my employer they have too much tolerance for mistakes and laziness. Their problem!

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: GK on January 24, 2019, 12:50:40 pmAnd who says the price is a mistake?After all the speculation on this thread, I am dying to know how this turns out. I am not really that worried about the pulse generators.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 24, 2019, 01:04:27 pmHey, if you feel comfortable and righteous in being an opportunistic arsehole just like everyone else, then more power to you.Quote from: spec on January 24, 2019, 01:07:33 pmGiven that the intent is clearly to take advantage either way, that question is rather moot.This is like a lesson in basic moral logic for five year olds. I'm reverting to pop-corn eating mode only now. Bye bye.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: GK on January 24, 2019, 01:30:20 pmI bought a box load of 5V power adaptors for 10p each at a car boot sale and sold them for 50p, was I dishonest? i gave the man what he asked. Like i said I could have bought £7K worth. If they cancel the order i will not make a fuss. If anything it will teach them a lesson they clearly need to learn.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:45:55 pm
content: Totally agree with Simon on all counts.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 01:53:39 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 23, 2019, 09:42:25 amVERYinterested. Changed the country to italy and suddently 543 euros + VAT

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:16:44 pm
content: Quote from: GK on January 24, 2019, 01:30:20 pmThat's the trouble with moralists with their head in the clouds: no manners. A few years ago your type would have had people who disagreed with their twisted view of the world, burnt at the stake or worse.What are you doing on this thread anyway. It is about a good deal on pulse generators, not a soapbox for you to vent your spleen on others and creat a bad atmosphere.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:18:22 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on January 24, 2019, 01:53:39 pmThat's right, the deal only applies to UK customers.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:24:59 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 24, 2019, 02:16:44 pmCalm down now.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:40:07 pm
content: Just got this:Thank you for your order, please find attached your Order Acknowledgement.We will be in touch shortly with an expected delivery date.If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Services team on 01480 212122Kind regardsKate9 Orion Court, Ambuscade Road, Colmworth Business Park, St Neots, Cambs, PE19 5BE

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 24, 2019, 02:24:59 pmYou do realise that GK's comment was aimed at you.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2019, 02:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: spec on January 24, 2019, 02:47:55 pmI know so why you are even getting that irate?

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 04:28:58 pm
content: Thanks all for replies, i got the final confirmation :"Thank you for your order, our ref SOR084988 / your ref (removed because contains personal data)Your items are expected to be shipped on 22 February 2019 via UPS.If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.Any queries, kindly email by return.RegardsSpeirs, GeorgiaCustomer ServiceTelephone Number : 01480 21 21 22Fax Number : 01480 21 21 11www.kinesis.co.uk"So cole-palmer get it from kinesis, i checked their website and the product isn't on there, but kinesis have another 4 weeks wait time. I wonder if i've ordered a Chinese fake ;+}Those who want one shipped, if the unit is the real thing i do plan to attempt a bulk buy and will be happy to ship a few.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 04:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on January 25, 2019, 04:28:58 pmKinesis is Cole Parmer. If you do get something then it shouldn't be fake.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:23:06 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on January 25, 2019, 04:28:58 pmAttempt to buy from where? They have already corrected the price in the web shop.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 25, 2019, 05:23:06 pmIt's still listed at the same price of £15.40.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:25:48 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 25, 2019, 05:23:06 pmStill shows the low price in GBP. Other currencies will give you a high price.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on January 25, 2019, 05:23:06 pmThe low price seems to be only for the UK. Once you change your country to say Sweden or Finland it displays the correct price.Personally I find it quite unlikely that they would ship these, given then insane price difference and the amount of orders they probably have by now.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:29:15 pm
content: I got an email saying they won't ship until mid April and that agreeing committed me to the order. I agreed, and now I have the email saying mid Feb, they really are in a mess....

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:32:57 pm
content: That could have been some automated message. I'm still highly dubious that they will ship them. Time will tell I suppose.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 05:45:26 pm
content: Yes they will order all this stock that they demand we commit to buy, then realise the price is wrong but can't charge us so they cancel on us and get stuck with the stock haha.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 07:04:04 pm
content: Karma served either way

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 08:57:00 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 25, 2019, 07:04:04 pmExactly, the pleasure at putting them "in it" will compensate for loosing the deal.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:17:30 pm
content: I think you're loosing touch with the 'readership'. There are folks here who don't have shelves full of shiny gear who just want to get their hands on one of these for personal use.If the "pleasure of putting them 'in it'" by placing an order big enough to wake them up to an unacceptable loss screws these members, then I'm sure they won't share your pleasure.Yes I know you could have afforded to buy "400" but who gives a shit.This thread has changed from a possible opportunity to score something otherwise unaffordable to many, to something rather less savory and altogether more childish!Maybe Dave should lock it - just my opinion.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:33:02 pm
content: They should have noticed the sudden increase in sales even in the ones and twos, they are obviously so lean and mean that with no human input despite a spike in sales they have noticed nothing or because they just employ generic office workers that care little and know little they are unaware. If i was working for that company I'd have had a look by now and pointed the error out to my boss yet they seem to be personally emaililng people to check if they are happy to sign up to the longer delivery time. Yet another company that simply boxs shifts and they call themselves scientific experts.My order will not make them see their mistake any more than anyone elses will. I'm sure that people make large orders from time to time for labs and companies or schools and given that there are suddenly quite a few of these poping up on ebay for around £200 I'm sure others have already successfully ordered these units or are actually trying to cash in before even getting the goods which i would never dream of doing. I don't sell what i do not stock. Why am i any more immoral than anyone that has taken advantage of the price?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:40:15 pm
content: I don't get the complaint myself. This isn't a class war, it's a business transaction. The objective is to make profit efficiently. We are all as responsible as this as anyone else unless you live in the woods and eat bugs.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:42:48 pm
content: @SimonI wasn't making a comment about your morality, just responding to your lines:Quote from: Simon on January 25, 2019, 05:45:26 pmandQuote from: Simon on January 25, 2019, 08:57:00 pmWhich struck me as childish and out of touch with the kind of forum members I mentioned.P.S.@bd139: ...and you seem to beactivelyencouraging such comments, which is sad in itself.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:46:39 pm
content: The dream of the former owner of the company i work for was to buy radiators in from abroad on the cheap, stick our label on the box and send it back out. Oddly enough the customers that we do that for now buy direct from abroad because they got wise and went to source. The only customers we keep are those that we add engineering input to and actually make something for the project in our own factory. This country is full of so called business people that think they can get rich by drop shipping from a supplier to a customer and hardly have the goods touch their warehouse floor. Well it can work but you need to know what you are doing and be doing it right or you are really adding 0 value for the customer that will soon find an alternative supplier.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 09:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 25, 2019, 09:42:48 pmThe context is in my previous post. These people claim to be experts in scientific instruments yet they can't spot a trend and care little for what they buy and sell. They clearly thing they are clever in ordering goods to order, making the customer wait and then ship out as soon as they arrive instead of doing it the good old fashioned way of holding stock.If indeed they have run out of stock because this has been going on for a while then I reiterate that they are clearly a very badly run company to not see what is happening but then i wonder how many of their employees that are obviously not employed for their knowledge of what they sell know or care what these instruments are.So yes it would indeed be funny to see them order all this stock in, cancel on all of us and then realise that they are stuck with this stuff. At least they will have some next day stock to ship for once!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 10:07:15 pm
content: Gyro, I understand your point for reference. But at the end of the day this is incompetence mandated by the business. Incompetent businesses have the same quality staff and management handling personal data, money and supply chains that other businesses depend on. Karma here helps the market generally shift towards competence. I’ve seen a couple of large companies fall by sweeping simple things under the carpet. They deserved every bit of the pain. If they eat the pain and learn from it and improve then it’s a good thing. If they cruise off the edge of the cliff then it’s a good thing.Edit: a canonical example. CPC are circling the drain over the same things. They cut every baseline cost to the point no one gives a fuck if they do a bad job. And when they do they point the finger at the customer.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 10:13:01 pm
content: I have no moral qualms about taking advantage of this situation. If it wasn't for the distance and freight costs, I'd be tempted to take a punt. If it pans out, then those who took the risk will be better off. If not, then I would expect all payments to be refunded.What interests me more, though, ishowthe organisation handles the situation. Do they cancel? Do theyblindlyhonour the orders - or do they acknowledge their error and fulfill the orders?Many years ago, I was in a hardware store and came across a plumber's soldering tip that could fit over the end of a propane torch I had. You know the sort - a 1" x 1" chunk of copper bar, shaped and drilled for the purpose. The regular price for these was on the far side of $20 - $30, but these ones were marked at something like a quarter of that price. I took one over to one of the people on the registers to point out the error and they were more interested in overriding the computer's price to sell it to me at the marked price. Even though I wasn't really after one - I didn't have one and the price was unbeatable, so I let them continue and bought it for a bargain.A week later I was in the store again and swung by that section to see if the prices had been fixed. It hadn't. So, again, I took one to the register with the same purpose as before - and I got the same response as before. I now have two of these in my garage - and even if I never use them, it's not a bad investment in copper.Sadly, I do not feel the minions are going to notice and if their buyer doesn't get wind of it, the orders will be filled and no-one will be the wiser. Great for us - not great for them. If it does get noticed, then you might expect a bean counter to work out the impact and then a decision will be made to balance the direct financial deficit against the cost to the company's reputation and image.I await the outcome with interest.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 10:30:03 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 25, 2019, 10:07:15 pmSure, In my time I've seen more than my share of incompetent companies, although I'd probably take issue with the quality of staff comment - I've worked for several companies with first grade engineering teams hampered by incompetent upper management and ancillary functions (somebody mention HR?). Tonotname one, at my last employer (a large semiconductor manufacturer) nobody got a pay review one year because the management team had f***ed up the 'offshoring' of their US tax affairs (Edit: Delaware to Cayman Islands), you don't get much more incompetent than that!. Such companies are inevitably bought up by larger (though not necessarily more competent) competitors, as it that case.At least with the CPC spiral there are benefits to customers (much like the subject of this tread) in unexpected bargain prices compared to the parent company.I think you and Simon understand my point that it would be sad rather than funny or pleasurable to see forum members to miss out on a good deal if this particular one falls through anyway.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 10:37:51 pm
content: I’m contracting for a company that just did exactly the same fuck up ironically and it was clearly intentional. There’s nothing worse than the stink eye you get from the other staff but the job needs to be done. Good staff leave because there’s always somewhere else to go. Totally agree with HR. Lots of ancillary drones in medium to large companies these days who serve only to persist their own concern rather than deliver business value. Ugh I could go on for hours there.True with CPC. I have scored some good stuff there.I get your point. I’m sure Simon will sell them on at a considerably lower risk. That’s his value add.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:11:53 pm
content: Another email:Thank you for your order, our ref xxx/xxxYour items are expected to be shipped on 22 February 2019 via UPS.If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.Any queries, kindly email by return.RegardsSpeirs, GeorgiaCustomer ServiceTelephone Number : 01480 21 21 22Fax Number : 01480 21 21 11www.kinesis.co.uk

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:14:40 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on January 25, 2019, 10:13:01 pmI've had similar, a local supermarket had short dated pizzas reduced to 10p each, they were also on buy one get one free, so I grabbed four for the freezer.Except, when I scanned them at a self serve till, the first one came up at 10p, the second then subtracted £1.80 from my total, leaving me with a negative total.I pointed this out to three different members of staff, one tried to replicate it and the same thing happened, they all shrugged their shoulders.Half an hour later I left the store with a trolley of shopping and a second trolley full of pizza for a shade under £10.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:18:48 pm
content: On a more related note, I've not had a shipping confirmation yet, what dates did everyone order on?

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 25, 2019, 11:18:48 pm2019_01_22, three days ago. At the time of the order they said delivery on 2019_02_29 and they have now shortened that to 2019_02_22.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 25, 2019, 11:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 25, 2019, 11:14:40 pmYou win.(As an IT guy, I'd be kicking whatever minion stuffed that upreallyhard.)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:24:18 am
content: I would have left my employer by now but for the fact that i have no qualifications. So when they offered to pay for qualifications i snapped up the opportunity. No one has thought to get me to sign some paper tying me to the company for "x" amount of years after and i will happily walk the moment i get the qualifications and leave them to stew unless things are very different by then.As things stand my new years resolution has been to not give a shit like everyone else because after years I finally accept that being helpful and diligent makes me the problem. and they have no clue what I am or not doing. i could be working on personal projects and they would not know the difference! A colleague that sits behind me that recently joined was smarter and worked this out in a year and I note he does sod all day and spends much of his work time doing his qualification as do i now. There is no reward for doing well so we stop bothering and have an easy life.No doubt this company have probably got a similar culture and hence such mistakes are made.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:38:38 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 25, 2019, 09:52:21 pmThey'd almost certainly have 30+ days net terms with the manufacturers, so they place the order (or their automated system does, or the purchasing people do blindly), they receive and ship the products, and then accounts payable pay the one big bill like they normally do a month or two later. It's likely any one person is in a position to spot any financial discrepancy here.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 09:43:24 am
content: No, it's just that if i was processing any paperwork for a device called a signal generator and noticed that it was priced at such a low price I would query it. If i was handling paperwork for all of the orders of these things i would wonder at the price differences in different currencies, we all should know in the Uk that euro = 1 pound, the math is not that hard.

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 10:23:15 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 23, 2019, 08:53:25 amDoes lying make you feel good about yourself?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 10:36:23 am
content: Quote from: deephaven on January 26, 2019, 10:23:15 amwith the way RS works I would have done the same. I have rung several times to try and help them explaining that not having stock availability in their parametric search made the website useless. The person i spoke to was always completely uninterested and did not grasp what i was trying to explain with the last one saying that "that is just the way it is" as though I was being unreasonable so I said fine, I will use another supplier and their part numbers will go on the BOM for future production orders and that is just the way it is and i hung up. Both UK based distributors are a nightmare for stock and as much as i prefer to buy locally i order from america now because these two british companies cannot get their act together and I have zero sympathy for them because until they go bust they will not be replaced by a more competent company.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 11:08:40 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 09:43:24 amThat's because you know what's been talked about here and so know the context. The people ordering / shipping / invoicing much of this stuff won't have any idea what's coming or going in those boxes.Here's an example of a Signal Generator from a mainline supplier :https://www.rapidonline.com/70-4140

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 11:17:26 am
content: Quote from: nali on January 26, 2019, 11:08:40 amYes and where I work our buyer knows nothing of electronic components and is incapable of taking a BOM from me and ordering the parts. And so i have managed to argue for having my own online account for RS, Farnell, mouser, and Rapid. I also have these accounts now because ordering myself means stuff turns up with my name on it and i have a slightly better chance of getting the stuff as our lazy store staff keep loosing things (I ordered 2 hot air rework stations to get 1). But this means that apart from me having to do someone elses job I can order at will with no questions asked and I do spend big. Got 10 caps in my design? no problem I order a reel of 4000 so that I will never have to order them again. Why should I care about the cost, i want an easy life whilst doing 2 peoples jobs, but it costs my employer 100x more in parts to carry on having lazy and incompetent people.most people should be able to tell the difference between top notch kit and shit from china.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 11:49:08 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 11:17:26 amLucky you! I have the exact opposite in that I've gone from having complete responsibility and authority for the engineering side of our business (including 6-figure purchasing) to having to justify and have authorised anything more than the price of a few sandwiches. The inevitable result of a small successful company being bought by a larger corporation I suppose.So yesterday I quit

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 11:55:33 am
content: Oh it's no pleasure, I have more work to do that is not mine to do and I still need to be careful. Equipment pucshases still need signing off and i have fought long and hard for equipment. the other day a shitty power supply broke down so I suggested to the MD we buy another of the good ones. He refused so now we are 1 power supply short. The only reason we got any decent lab supplies was because I informed the MD while a customer was on site looking at our test methods that we were making tits of ourselves as the inadequacy of the kit was obvious to the customer. So he said OK tell me what to buy and after 2 years I managed to get him to buy the same power supplies that i recomended when they bought the shitty ones and the shitty ones were exactly as I described.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 02:31:02 pm
content: That sort of shit is why I'm a contractor.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 25, 2019, 09:17:30 pmI agree that it would be a bad move, but locking the thread would be an over-reaction i think.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:08:25 pm
content: As i have already explained i deemed 30 to be a reasonable quantity. I have not ordered that many in comparison to the total amount sold at this price and such a quantity can be quite legitimate not that i have to justify any quantity. i still run the risk of being stuck with them. Clearly the company is very poorly run given that most of us have received conflicting emails about each order so good luck to them!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:09:29 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 26, 2019, 02:31:02 pmi have flippantly offered my services as a contractor working from home several times in order to get a job done.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:09:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 26, 2019, 02:31:02 pmToo right, that sort of shit is why i work for myself, i don't miss the politics and the reliance on others who may not be quite so conscientious about their work.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:11:09 pm
content: What is everybody intending to do with this pulse generator? Any particular item you're developing or debugging right now where this will be handy? Or will it just be another tool in the toolbox?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:14:39 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 26, 2019, 05:11:09 pmPulse generator seems to be a poor name but then they are incompetent company. Reading the description that they themselves do not understand it sounds more like a general purpose function generator.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 05:14:39 pmI'm hoping it's as good as mechanical switching for my inductor investigation.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 05:14:39 pmOkay. We get that you dislike Cole-Parmer but the name and the description are from BK. It really is a pulse generator if you look at themanual. Bit limited for general purpose function generator usage.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 05:08:25 pmSeriously ?Rounding a little and using a possible usual retail price30 x (£450-£15) ~ £13,000 shortfallVery reasonable of you. Not.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:29:56 pm
content: What? It outputs a low power signal through a 50 ohm resistor.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:31:29 pm
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on January 26, 2019, 05:28:07 pmNo, I meant any company may wish to buy 30 or a school, I'm keeping 2 anyway and they do not pay 450 for them.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:52:39 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 26, 2019, 05:27:07 pmSo then you should look twice, because it is just what the title says: a PULSE GENERATOR. Nothing more than a PWM waveform generator. It is also obvious from the controls on the front panel: RATE and WIDTH (with probably some forms of external triggering)Hobbyists and hams used to build these foolishly simple devices out of a double 555 timers. There is very little use to a pulse generator.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 05:54:09 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 05:31:29 pmYou sayyoubought thirty and I did saypossible usual retail price(based upon the Farnell) price of £450.Even if they added a 100% mark-up, which meant that they cost them £225 each, you could potentially be taking >£6000 off them.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:08:04 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 26, 2019, 05:52:39 pmTo be honest that is all i have used waveform generators for, these days what most people want is PWM for digital stuff.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:09:28 pm
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on January 26, 2019, 05:54:09 pmYou forget that that includes VAT. It's obviously a mistake they can afford and why am i any worse than anyone else. I am sorry now i was up front and honest! Seems sneaking around screwing people is the way to go.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:10:57 pm
content: If you happen to do just digital circuits, then probably yes. (Even though I still don't see too much use for a single channel pulse generator anyway).On the other hand, there is way more use for a sine-wave signal, if you like analog circuitry. Either RF, measurement or just generic testing of stuff.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:11:24 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 26, 2019, 05:27:07 pmWho said i dislike them? I'm simply saying they are badly run. going by email signatures they have bought out another company so must be doing well enough to afford the mistake.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 26, 2019, 06:10:57 pmhttps://bkpmedia.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/datasheets/en-us/4030_datasheet.pdfhttps://bkpmedia.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/manuals/en-us/4030_manual.pdfLooks like a very useful instrument to me.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:21:58 pm
content: What would you use it for then? Could you give examples please? I can't think of many, apart from using it as an extremely jitterry clock source, or as a de-bounced button (when used in the singleshot mode).

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 26, 2019, 06:10:57 pmIf Dave accidentally charged you a big chunk less for his DMMs, would you just let it go ?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:34:17 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 26, 2019, 06:21:58 pmWell just think of all the things that are controlled by PWM or frequency or that exchange information. these would be great for all sorts of development. A current project I am working on has a tacho signal (variable frequency) and uses PWM to drive the motors. Every project i work on needs square wave signals. i would never pay £450 for one of these.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:35:14 pm
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on January 26, 2019, 06:30:42 pmNo, but that is called politics

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:35:42 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 26, 2019, 05:52:39 pmI should look twice? I said it was a pulse generator.Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2019, 06:11:24 pmThe schadenfreude comments about how it'll be karma they'll likely get stuck with the ordered stock for not fulfilling this deal? You mention that pulse generator is a poor name because they are incompetent company. The name and description was written by BK and has nothing to do with Cole-Parmer who are box shifters. Blaming them for that when it wasn't even written by them just says to me that you dislike them. If I've misinterpreted your posts then I apologise.I'm still curious as to what people will do with this pulse generator. I've no use for one at all as I rarely deal with pulse trains but it is always interesting to see what other people do with their equipment. There have been lots of times where I've gone "Huh. I never knew you could do that..."Anyway, everybody needs to calm down as this is turning bad with angry arguments. I hope everybody who has bought this unit does get it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 06:40:45 pm
content: MORE ABOUT THIS ITEMThis function generator is ideal for engineering, manufacturing, servicing, and educational applications. Unit is a versatile signal source that combines four functions into one unit – waveform generation, pulse generation (through variable symmetry), frequency sweep operation, and triggered operation. Unit offers low rise and fall time pulsed signals up to 10 MHz for additional flexibility and to meet many test and measurement applications.It was described as a function generator.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 07:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 26, 2019, 06:35:42 pmSorry, that was meant for Simon and I forgot to delete the outer quote.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2019, 08:09:47 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 26, 2019, 06:35:42 pmA good question... a few that immediately come to mind:- General purpose adjustable clock /pulse train source.- Spot frequency source, it has a crystal derived spot frequency output setting at every decade. Not GPSDO quality obviously but useful for general stuff, particularly calibration / frequency markers for an analogue scope.- The manual trigger lets you generate a single debounced pulse of variable width. Handy for a reset pulse - checking the bounds of a circuit (eg. CPU reset circuit) in terms of it's tolerance of minimum and maximum pulse widths.- Likewise, using the rear panel trigger input, a wide range adjustable logic delay.- With the digital frequency display and 50R output (actually max 10V from a 50R impedance source), you have ample power to drive a bright LED to use as a stroboscope.- Relay pulser (watch the back EMF).- Using the rear panel Sync output, you can watch the response of a circuit to a pulse edge (0 -2uS delay to trigger the scope before the edge).- Mosfet driver for experimenting with / optimizing flyback inverters.- Variable PWM driver for servos / ESCs / stepper drivers.- Power dropout duration resistance checking.- ...All stuff that youcouldfabricate with discrete circuits (what can't you?) but handy to have in one box. I certainly wouldn't pay £several hundred for one mind you!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 08:51:13 am
content: To be honest I don't see why this sells for £450 when a 5MHz fully fledged signal generator is around £300, sure half the frequency but potentially more useful, is it a functionality thing or better rise/fall time (that will be destroyed by any capacitance in the DUT with the 50 ohm output)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:39:55 pm
content: A 5MHz signal generator probably can't generate pulses at a 5 MHz repetition rate.. because usually a 5MHz signal generator is 5 MHz for sine only, as slew rate of the output amplifier is much lower that the one needed for 5MHz pulses and squares

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:57:37 pm
content: If it generates square waves it can. My guess is that the modern funtion generator is a DAC driven by a micro followed by an amp. So maybe the rise and fall time on the sig gen is pretty poor but acceptable where as the pulse generator has no DAC but a higher frequency output amp which would be reduced to a high speed half bridge driver.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:19:05 pm
content: That's pretty much it. The pulse generator has output rise and fall times of <12ns. The squarewave output of most function generators usually degrades badly at maximum frequency due to slew rate limiting... Why would you quote 1MHz squarewave output on a function generator when you can quote 5MHz sinewave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 07:08:30 pm
content: Well as I see it they are two types of device. all the sig gen needs to do fast square wave is an internal switch to chose between a high speed opamps or digital drivers.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 07:48:00 pm
content: Yes, they are different beasts. For instance you won't find sig gens (I don't know about AWGs) that can put out a 50ns pulses at a 10Hz repetition rate. It's really a combination of stuff you won't find one specific killer feature.You'd better start working on your sales pitch.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 08:08:38 pm
content: I think you could do that with the Rigol DG1022Z but it requires fucking around with an external trigger cable. I don’t have mine any more though.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 11:51:33 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 27, 2019, 08:51:13 amYes and exactly this! Especially when the functionality is really crude and probably is realized using bog standard jellybean parts (couple of timers and probably few 74 series chips).But you all already know well, that this is a problem of paying for "exclusivity" and "brand". Not really that surprised of the full price of this device. Good if the deal could really be made for that low price!

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 04:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on January 27, 2019, 11:51:33 pmBut then B&K Precision is a maker of so-so economy instruments, not too much of "brand" or "exclusivity" anyone would pay extra for.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2019, 05:33:13 pm
content: to be fair a driver at 1-10V is something to be admired. I'm not even sure how they do it

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:38:15 am
content: Price now amended to £451.09GBP (incl VAT)

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 10:52:25 am
content: Quote from: netdudeuk on January 29, 2019, 10:38:15 amNot here. It's still the initial low price.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 12:21:04 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 29, 2019, 10:52:25 amThat's what i'm seeing here too from UK, £15.40 inc VAT, and £180 for the calibration service if you want it!

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 09:36:59 pm
content: After 9 days, they've finally noticed and fixed the priceIt shows as £450 inc VAT now.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 10:10:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 23, 2019, 08:27:02 amBut you shot yourself in the foot anyway -- nobody seems willing to order something for you and forward it to some unknown Nirvana.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 10:31:46 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 30, 2019, 09:36:59 pmBrace for coming offer to pay the difference

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 10:52:10 pm
content: I reckon they only worked it out when they went to order the stock and got the supplier invoice back

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 11:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on January 30, 2019, 10:10:01 pmIt's sorted, but I appreciate the concern. Now the question is whether anything actually gets delivered.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 09:13:57 am
content: Well at any rate they are going to have several hundred available for next day delivery and maybe they can learn to trade like a real supplier now and not a sodding box shifter. It's not like they are small because they bought out another company.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 10:37:21 am
content: Just got this:QuoteSo they are closing an eye to the price?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 10:48:18 am
content: They are creating an obstacle. No one needs that information.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 10:54:17 am
content: I smell some weaseling happening. Time to remind them you have a valid order for an advertised price item after checking their T&C's against your government regs that they have a legal sale to processDumb thought commercial volume are you of course selling them to North Korea or Iran against sanctions

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 11:08:37 am
content: I slipped commercial into my response to steer them away from military use concerns acting innocent and asking if they needed my details again as the end user.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 11:24:35 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 31, 2019, 10:37:21 amI've had that too.The non cancellable/non returnable is a worry bt good luck to them with trying to enforce a contract on a new price as I've got an order confirmation with the original one on it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 11:36:07 am
content: Quite, I'm all the happier that they bang on about it, it will not be egg on their face but a well cooked omlet when they turn around and say price has changed and I'll say "what about that non cancel-able bit?" works one way only? You see if they truly stocked this stuff and did it properly this situation would never have arisen for them.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 12:15:48 pm
content: Interesting request.Will be interesting to see what happens next ............

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 01:03:43 pm
content: I would tell them that they can't impose additional terms as you've already entered the sale contract according to the listed terms up front so get shipping or you'll chargeback them and complain to their merchant.The PO / purpose is up to them and the supplier. Nothing to do with you. Their purpose is reselling and they are a middle-man / agent. They should know this if they are totally competent but they are playing bullshit here.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 01:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on January 31, 2019, 10:37:21 amMe too. So I just phoned them on 01480 277823 and spoke to a young lady called Georgia. Nicky Boston (lady) is the main contact, but was not there. I asked what was going on, and more to the point what do I do next. Georgia said that she could handle the call and would pass my information on to Nicky.She wanted to know about my company (name on the order) and what the end use of the equipment was. I explained that the pulse generators were for my own private use at home, and that the they would not be sold on to another location. She then asked what specifically would the equipment be used for. I said hobby electronics. She asked for more details so I said audio amplifier testing and car transistor ignition systems. Georgia seemed happy with this and said that the information I had given was satisfactory and would be communicated to B&K. She said I would receive an email confirming this. We shall see.PS: When I tried to get to the bottom of all this, Georgia was not forthcoming, and I got the distinct impression that security was involved.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 02:19:08 pm
content: Is a Pulse Generator controlled in some way? Sure you can use it to build a nuclear whatever but so can you with resistors... Is there a legit reason for them to be this concerned with where the product will end up?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 02:23:42 pm
content: They are big enough to squash you like a cockroach. They will refund your 15 quid and that will be end of story.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 02:34:57 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on January 31, 2019, 02:19:08 pmNot necesarily, some companies will make you sign all sorts even for the most mundane products purely because it's easier to do that once than make you sign a form every time you want to get something which is controlled or at least that's my understanding of it.I believe some pulse generators are controlled though, those with ultra fast rise times, but I doubt this one will be?

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 02:46:18 pm
content: I got the same email from Nicky. Replied with a similar email to you - might as well be honest and see what happens.

author: mvs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:04:19 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on January 31, 2019, 02:19:08 pmYes, frequency synthesized signal generators are dual use items (ECCN 3A002.d).

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 23, 2019, 10:02:43 amThat link does not support what you say. In fact, it says the exact opposite:Quote

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:25:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 31, 2019, 02:23:42 pmThey don't have to be big, they just have to say "oops, sorry, our mistake, out of stock, no can do, really sorry!". Then what you gonna do? Sue them? Good luck with that.

author: spec
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 04:21:27 pm
content: There is one thing. Even if the pulse generator deal turns to dust, this thread has been entertaining. 163 posts and still not a pulse generator in sight.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: agehall on January 31, 2019, 02:19:08 pmSome pulse generators are, but I don't think these are good enough to be. Otherwise 555 timers would be export controlled too.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:10:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 31, 2019, 02:23:42 pmEach customer individually, sure. A group with pooled resources can be much more of a pain.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:26:46 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on January 23, 2019, 10:02:43 amQuoteThere's always a bit of ambiguity over these, "should've noticed" is very subjective. But I reckon it's a pretty obvious mistake, the item price was 96% lower than what it is now. And you would expect to pay a lot more than £15 for something like this, it's a pretty obvious case of "should have noticed".The difference is though whether the seller raises that point or just decides to ship it. I still think they won't, but I also find it curious that they would send emails asking about the intended purpose of the purchase. It's almost like the items are almost getting ready to ship and no one has yet figured out what they charged for them so they haven't cancelled the orders yet.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:29:04 pm
content: It could also be that someone has noticed it but doesn’t like the company and wants to actively hurt them by ignoring it

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:39:50 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 31, 2019, 05:29:04 pmI think Hanlon's razor applies here. The wrong price was on their website for over a week so they're definitely not monitoring things too closely. I wonder if the person who oversees all of this is not there for some reason and everybody is just following standard procedure because they were told to.

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:42:42 pm
content: Who knows, anything is possible.Although you'd think this information has passed through several hands already.One thought occurred to me, maybe their internal systems are showing the correct price, yet the customers see the wrong one. Only after they actually try to charge the price they notice the difference.This has happened to me with Arrow. Their checkout reserved X amount from my paypal, but a couple of days later they sent an email saying there was a problem. They sent me a separate invoice with a higher total, apparently that's what their internal systems were showing even though my checkout price was lower.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:47:08 pm
content: If they do end up delivering, somebody needs to take it apart to show what £450 worth of pulse generator actually isPile of basic logic chips or an ancient uC?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:49:32 pm
content: It is all because they are dirty little box shifters and they have so little to do with the supply chain that it almost amounts to us buying directly from B&K and as they are being exported they have to fill in all of this paperwork. If cole and palmer were a proper straight up company they would buy in the stock dealing with this crap and then sell on abiding by any UK export rules.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 05:49:52 pm
content: Quote from: tsman on January 31, 2019, 05:47:08 pmi was thinking of doing a teardown

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 06:20:13 pm
content: IME the additional questions are pro forma whenFarnell(edit: Cole-Parmer) submits the quote to B&K, especially due to some quantities involved.Farnell(edit: Cole-Parmer) may realize their mistake if B&K either sends back a quote that is orders of magnitude higher than their listing price or simply rejectsFarnell's(edit: Cole-Parmer's)quote with such low unit price. Either systems will flag this - provided they are actually working.IfFarnell(edit: Cole-Parmer) had these units in stock, I would imagine they would have fulfilled the orders without realizing their mistake.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 06:31:31 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 31, 2019, 06:20:13 pmIt's not Farnell, is it?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 07:19:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 31, 2019, 06:31:31 pmYou are absolutely right; I saw Farnell on the first post and associated with it. Idiot.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:07:40 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 31, 2019, 02:34:57 pmQuote from: mvs on January 31, 2019, 03:04:19 pmJust found this:http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1995/271/madeCode:3A229Firing sets and equivalent high-current pulse generators (for controlled detonators), as follows:N.B.: SEE ALSO MILITARY GOODS CONTROLS.a.Explosive detonator firing sets designed to drive multiple controlled detonators specified in 3A232;b.Modular electrical pulse generators (pulsers) designed for portable, mobile or ruggedized use (including xenon flash-lamp drivers) having all the following characteristics:1.Capable of delivering their energy in less than 15 microsecond;2.Having an output greater than 100 A;3.Having a rise time of less than 10 microsecond into loads of less than 40 ohms (rise time is the time interval from 10% to 90% current amplitude when driving a resistive load);4.Enclosed in a dust-tight enclosure;5.No dimension greater than 254 mm;6.Weight less than 25 kg; and7.Specified for use over an extended temperature range (223 K [−50° C] to 373 K [100° C]) or specified as suitable for aerospace use.3A230High-speed pulse generators with output voltages greater than 6 volts into a less than 55 ohm resistive load, and with pulse transition times less than 500 picoseconds.Technical Note: In this item, ‘pulse transition time’ is defined as the time interval between 10% and 90% voltage amplitude.While the 4017A has lower specs, they are pretty close, though. In fact it is just the Rise Time of <= 30ns vs. 0.5ns in the export control specification.I find this quite interesting, since I never imagined that a pulse generator could be used for controlled detonators! Its seems that anything has some military use...Regards,Vitor

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:13:49 pm
content: Hey, I will tell you a secret. Yes everything does have a military use. What is military? it's the use of force for harm towards someone else for defensive or offensive purposes. So if i pick up my computer and throw it at you it is now a weapon, that classes it as military equipment.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:35:10 pm
content: All of these export control laws are ancient and rarely updated to follow advances in technology.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:42:56 pm
content: Yep. At work if we don't want export issues we use plastic connectors instead of metal because to the bureaucrat metal = military even though now that metal connectors are so much cheaper they are used in industrial applications as well and even motorsport.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:49:24 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on February 01, 2019, 11:07:40 pmNo risk of pulling 100A out of one of theseI was semi serious when I pondered export related issues in my last post. I was tempted to dump buying from Digikey over their on sale of goods to USA sanctioned countries they demanded I accept. I now just go to them last and if I have to. Cole Parmer is a US based entity so they are just towing the line of their parent government.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 01, 2019, 11:42:56 pmIs that a precaution or is there some actual rule about metal connectors?

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 11:59:46 pm
content: A watchseller in error reduced their Omega stock to 1% of list.A whole bunch of us ordered several each.Obviously they noted their error and cancelled.

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 12:00:58 am
content: How much time has been wasted on these daft out of date export lawsI guess bureaucrats thrive on paperwork and it provides a reason for their job.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 12:14:28 am
content: Quote from: tsman on February 02, 2019, 12:00:58 amI always thought Yes Minister/Prime Minister was an early UK reality show

author: tsman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 12:28:33 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on February 02, 2019, 12:14:28 amIt basically could have been a reality show. It was popular with real members of Parliament because of how accurate it was!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 01:06:28 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on February 02, 2019, 12:14:28 amI first looked at it as a caricature of how things actually worked - but I began to doubt there was much exaggeration involved.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 08:10:31 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on February 02, 2019, 12:14:28 amIt is indeed as much documentary as it is entertainment and indeed many of the stories are inspired by real inside stories at the time.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 08:16:30 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 01, 2019, 11:50:36 pmNo it's a precaution. You will find MIL-DTL-D38999 in commercial/industrial products and every manufacturer has their own parallel commercial part number system that also extends the basic range of the mil spec. This means that each extension to the standard is particular to that manufacturer and it cannot be described with a mil spec number and will fall outside of the tighter auditing on manufacturing. The basic ranges can be bought under mil or commercial nubers. Personally I now prefer the commercial numbers anyway because it gives me control over the supply chain instead of loom subcontractors buying in any old shit as even mil spec numbered parts can be a bit yukky.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2019, 03:53:45 pm
content: Oh and no the export questions are not because coe and palmer UK are bringing these in from cole and palmer USA, Farnell does ask export questions when we buy stuff from the "extended" range stocked in the US cole and palmer UK are buying each and every one of these instruments individually from B&K as and when they are ordered. I don't know why B&K don't just sell direct. Many manufacturers are starting to realise that distributors are a waste of time and are starting to deal direct with customers.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2019, 11:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 31, 2019, 05:10:32 pmI don't think we'll be bringing any class-actions!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 07:24:50 am
content: certainly not worth it but it looks like they are doing the face saving thing of just fulfilling the orders or surely by now they would have just cancelled.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 10:09:18 am
content: Spoke with Nicky this morning and she said that the first batch of POs have been accepted by B&K and being processed. Thumbs held / fingers crossed.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2019, 10:26:56 am
content: yea I expect cole and palmer are a member of staff down now unless they are as bad as where I work where no one really gives a shit.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 10:34:50 pm
content: I've written an 'Impressions and teardown' on the pulse generator. Does anyone (involved) think that posting it might draw more attention to it and possibly jeopardize further shipments by Cole Palmer?If so, I'll hold off.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 07:29:50 am
content: i can't see why not, the price has been fixed so cole and palmer are aware of what happened already and appear to be swallowing it as the sooner they come clean about cancelling orders the better.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 10:05:07 am
content: Teardown posted in the Test Equipment section....https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bk-precision-4030-pulse-generator-impressions-and-teardown/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 10:35:30 am
content: could we have a link?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 12:13:35 pm
content: Sorry, I was trying to keep a little distance between the threads.Link added above.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 01:10:23 pm
content: Well.. exactly what was expected. A couple of discrete jobbies in the output section and a couple of quite jellybean chips.Nothing anywhere close to justify the full cost they want for it. Not hatin, just saying.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 02:36:53 pm
content: Totally agree there. Thanks for writing up.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 04:16:30 pm
content: Thanks.Yes, you're right there, minimal BOM cost - I'm sure there are smds on the other side too, I don't see any scaling resistors for the rotary switches for instance, probably a fair amount of glue logic too, but nothing expensive. I didn't fancy taking off all the (grub screw) knobs to find out.They didn't make it easy for themselves on that front PCB - double sided smdanddouble sided through-hole!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 08:41:32 am
content: I would have thought that this would have been based on a counter of sufficient frequency to get the resolution and some micro to set the count period and the high time with some analogue trickery to alter the output voltage of the driver.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 12:34:41 pm
content: Nah... this is just simple analog job with a couple of monostable circuits (see those AMD chips? Am26s02 or what) with Resistor-Capacitor timing.Counters would get impractical, cause of very high clock speeds required for the pulse resolution to be obtained there.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 01:39:53 pm
content: It's 50ns smallest pulse is it not? that's a mere 20MHz of resolution, indeed at 10MHz all you get is a 50/50 output. even if it was 200MHz that's small beans for the right circuitry, we think in terms of micro-controllers these days but i thought logic IC's could do 100MHz or more.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:28:31 pm
content: Smallest pulse, yes. But can it be set to do also 55ns? And 56ns? And also 59 or 73 or 279? I'd say the digital solution may not be that easy as it might look atfirst glance, if you need continuously variable pulse lengths and delays, which is what this device is capable of.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:31:54 pm
content: I see, in that case yes it would be harder as it would be a 1GHz clock, what do PC processors run on using motherboards that cost around 100 GBP ?

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:51:15 pm
content: I have been asking myself this, too... (I'm a noob in this field)How is the clock of a modern CPU, lets say the Intel Core i7, done? Is that a simple crystal? My PC runs at 3.4GHz. Couldn't this clock produce a stable 10MHz signal?Thanks,Vitor

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:53:31 pm
content: Yes typically a PLL is used, this is why most settings go up in steps, you are altering the PLL not the actual base oscillator.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 02:57:08 pm
content: You are welcome to implement one of those pulse counters at 1GHz in a chip. I'll wait for the results.At such speeds, you need a lot of pipelining and it is just apples and oranges to compare a purpose-built CPUs manufactured in millions of pieces, and something, that would have to be implemented in an FPGA, at similar effective speeds.Also, due to guessing your lack of experience with logic circuit design, such pulse generators are not usually made using insanely high clock speeds, but rather using a phase-split clock signals, at much lower speeds. You have for example a 200MHz signal at 5 different phase shifts between each other 72 degrees apart, to obtain 1ns resolution.This is also how those very high pulse resolution timers are being implemented in some MCUs.To sum up it is not as easy as having a counter running at 4GHz. That is not simply possible and/or cost effective approach.//EDIT: Typo.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 03:53:20 pm
content: no i do not have experience of logic chips. If several counters make up the total counter then only the lowes bit numbers need to actually count at 1GHz but yes i guess it's going to get quite complex.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 04:09:54 pm
content: Exactly that. Back in the old days they'd stick an ECL prescaler up front and then the rest was standard TTL.There's not a lot to a pulse generator with that spec sheet. The BK one seems very overcomplicated for what it is. Some of the better ones (and cheaper ones like the £370 Rigol DG1022Z's pulse mode) allow setting of precise rise and fall times as well.Comparative guts of a TTi TGP110 from forum user Specmaster:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg1402254/#msg1402254

author: Audioguru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 04:59:54 pm
content: Here in Canada if something scans at the wrong price in a store then you get it for free. But the limit is only $10.00. For more expensive items you pay the (wrong) price that is shown.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 06:00:05 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on February 08, 2019, 03:53:20 pmQuote from: bd139 on February 08, 2019, 04:09:54 pmWe are not talking about just a counter with ECL prescaler. There is a whole lot of other logic in play to make such programmable pulse generator.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2019, 05:59:25 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 08, 2019, 04:09:54 pmI remember those days.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:51:21 am
content: Mine's arrived, feelings of guilt now!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:57:04 am
content: Quote from: makerman on February 13, 2019, 10:51:21 amWell I noticed with dismay the size of my credit card balance so went through the transactions and was relieved to find that part of it was the money they took. So they must be serious. I also notice that the money was taken by knesis a company cole and palmer have recently bought out, so now they have even more gear to be experts on - not!

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:19:11 pm
content: Maybe it really does cost less than $10 and you guys just got tricked into buying a shitload of stuff and they are laughing all the way to the bank

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:23:09 pm
content: Quote from: OwO on February 13, 2019, 12:19:11 pmNot really, regardless of what they cost anyone they are worth to anyone what they can sell them for and apparently the going rate is about £450

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on February 13, 2019, 10:51:21 am2016 Turnover 350 Million is now owned by Golden Gate Capital with 15 Billion in Capital and like most Equity firms NFI of what they own I am sure.Don't feel even a tiny bit guilty at all I reckon

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 12:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on February 13, 2019, 12:28:03 pmthese companies that make these mistakes must be able to afford those mistakes or they would make sure they don't happen and pay in the long run for staff that won't make those mistakes. I have just bought 4300 pressure sensors for £0.005 each instead of £4.60. The response has been that they are now selling them for £6.70 and have not even contacted me about it or noticed that it is not the only listing with a massive error in the price. Clearly they can afford to pour £8000 down the drain (my estimate of their wholesale price) judging by the "customer service" personnel I have spoken to in the past who told me that "it is what it is" when i tried to explain why their website was so bad that they were turning customers away.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 08:18:20 pm
content: Quote from: makerman on February 13, 2019, 10:51:21 amReally glad it did... I was feeling guilty after I posted the review and found out that mine had turned up before yours!

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 09:54:22 pm
content: I wouldn't be feeling too guilty. The business made a mistake and is honouring the orders - either because of good faith, or they haven't noticed. Even if they were specifically told of the mistake by some particularly conscientious person, there's no guarantee that the message went up the chain to the eyes of someone who would care.My attitude is much the same as Simon's - take advantage of the situation, but don't be too greedy. If it pays off, then great - if not, then so be it.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on February 13, 2019, 09:54:22 pmand then a number of people decided to punish them. Why?

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:44:52 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 13, 2019, 10:35:20 pm"Taking advantage" is not "punishing", semantically or practically.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 10:53:24 pm
content: What Scram said. ^ ^ ^

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 11:11:03 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 13, 2019, 10:44:52 pmThey are making an economic loss. This loss was made larger because some people decided they had to take advantage of the situation by ordering something they probably have no use for. In practice this is just punishment.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2019, 11:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 13, 2019, 11:11:03 pmThey really are two very different things. You can't fit definitions to a situation based on how you feel about it.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 12:05:17 am
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 13, 2019, 11:11:03 pmYou are confusing 'your' apparent 'moral' issues with what is strictly a 'commercial' issue.Company A has a price they have set and customers are buying that product which is a contract of sale. This is no different to buying and selling anything be they shares after a crash or goods at a 90% off sale that major retailers do from time to time. No one moralizes about those cases in the slightest unless someone has manipulated the price for personal gain.In this case the company concerned has likely screwed up. In a lot of countries would be seen to have negotiated a retail sale contract as they advertised a price for a product and taken money for that product. If it doesn't raise a blip on their system or if out of the 'goodness' (Unlikely) of their corporate heart they are 'honoring' that contract without a fight it is still their screwup.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 12:08:22 am
content: It should be noted that the company has in no way indicated it has screwed up, as far as I'm aware. We assume this because the difference is large, but Cole Palmer hasn't ever told us the pricing wasn't correct and certainly hasn't tried cancelling any orders.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 01:21:47 am
content: The other day I was browsing the clearance bin at Walmart and found they had some 60A fuses at $2 the pair (normally they are $6~7 each). I then saw on their electrical area the same pair marked at $0.60. Does that make me a bad person that is punishing the company? Not in my opinion...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 09:43:13 am
content: Given that Cole Palmer have just sent me a customer satisfaction rating email, they seem quite happy with the situation.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 09:45:14 am
content: No they are going on autopilot, the same as the idiots that blew up a £1000 solar inverter for me then asked how happy I was......

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 10:24:53 am
content: I've scanned their site for other "bargains" and haven't found anything interesting yet

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 10:30:10 am
content: Has anyone got one yet?

author: alex-sh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 10:31:09 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on February 14, 2019, 10:24:53 amIts gone I am afraid and like you I was too late to pick it up.It is priced now at £375 instead of £15, which I think was an expensive mistake.

author: alex-sh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 10:35:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2019, 10:30:10 amYes, makerman has got one.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 10:57:25 am
content: I've got three on order, one for me, one for someone else and a third to sell and cover the cost of the first two, hopefully making it a zero cost piece of test gear.I got the 'end use' email and replied with 'Electronics development' (Obviously a somehwat longer versions but...)I've not yet had a notification of shipping date, has anyone else?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 11:02:57 am
content: No i was told mid april and they have taken the money so done deal.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 11:30:49 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2019, 10:30:10 amMine is sitting at a friends desk in London atm.

author: alex-sh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 11:52:39 am
content: Quote from: Simon on February 14, 2019, 11:02:57 amSimon, can they still say that they are out of stock and issue a refund?I think until the unit is shipped, this is not a done deal.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 12:03:59 pm
content: AIUI they aren't allowed to take money on items before they ship (possibly from supplier) and once they've taken the money they've entered into a contract to supply.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 12:43:16 pm
content: They were the ones that made me confirm that i was happy to enter into an agreement that I cannot back out of. I expect they have not back tracked as they would be a laughing stock and it looks like they can afford it. If a cole and palmer sales rep turned up at my door at work I would only see them to get out of doing any work

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2019, 03:05:53 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2019, 10:30:10 amI have...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/bk-precision-4030-pulse-generator-impressions-and-teardown/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 08:18:26 am
content: I have also had the email asking for feedback and yet mine are not due for another 2 months, these people are clueless. God help Knesis whom they have just bought out.

author: timgiles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 08:55:50 am
content: Simon - did you ask for a delivery date or did they send you one?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 09:21:11 am
content: I was informed that delivery would not be until mid April and did I agree. If I agreed I could not bact out I was told. Bit pointless asking for feedback before I have the goods.

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 04:01:41 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 13, 2019, 11:17:48 pmAgreed, like people who call alcoholism a disease ;+}

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 04:02:32 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 14, 2019, 09:43:13 amI take it you'll give them 10/10

author: makerman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 04:03:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2019, 10:30:10 amGyro and i do.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 09:06:22 am
content: I just took possession of mine late last night and unpacked it. As with any new instrument, one of the first things you do is fiddle a bit with the knobs and to my dismay, all the big knobs on the front seems broken. None of them seem to have proper indentation and some will almost not turn at all. Most of them also push inwards a few mm when turned.This can't be normal, right? I would expect the big knobs to have indentations so that you turn them to precise locations and that does not seem to be the case at all on my unit.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 09:27:06 am
content: Indentations maybe not but the knobs should not be stiff.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 10:27:36 am
content: I think he means detents.No that's certainly not right, the switches should turn easily with good click action. It sounds as if the front panel PCB is loose or deflected, transit damage? although the small knobs are on the same pcb.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 10:29:26 am
content: Yes detents, thank you.

author: MadScientist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 09:09:39 pm
content: Guys , in almost all cases there will be an E&OE clause , that alllws the seller to correct legitimate errorsFurthermore it’s entitely legal to refuse to ship and refund the money, A company is not under an absolute contract to supply any product. Also it’s entitely legal to take the money in advance of that is the situation

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 09:23:39 pm
content: Yea, we know.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 10:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: MadScientist on March 24, 2019, 09:09:39 pmThe legal side has been discussed to death.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 11:15:54 pm
content: ... and then some.Everybody here understands they might have backed out, but the point of interest is if they will fulfill the orders - which they seem to be doing.The curiosity question is whether this is being done because they:1. want to maintain a positive PR profile2. are big enough not to care3. didn't notice the stuff up

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:10:43 am
content: They would be insane not to have an E&OE clause, but they took my money which makes it a binding contract and I have a shipping notification which would suggest they agree.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:12:33 am
content: Dents, detents - what's the difference!?I'll have to blame my hangover for that.During Saturday, me and my friend carefully opened up the instrument and we were somewhat surprised to find ball bearings all over the place. I'm very happy I decided to open the instrument up before applying power to it. This could have ended badly...Turns out that the large switches were all massacred. The two halves had come apart and the gap was large enough for one of the two balls in each to free itself. How this unit passed QA is beyond me - there was no visible damage to the packaging or the outside of the unit so I find it hard to believe this happened in shipping. I guess it could be due to the fact that the PCB with the knobs relies only on the knobs to hold it in place, but still - doesn't make sense when one considers that one of the switches looked like the attached photo and had to be carefully repaired as well.To sum things up, the quality of this instrument is just about what I expect of a £15 instrument from China. This was my first instrument from BK and it will probably be my last given the sad state of affairs inside it. Had I paid the price they want for it now, I would have been furious, now I'm just happy it was fixable.Check your units carefully before turning them on!

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:34:49 am
content: I think that adds to my suspicion that the price was right and they just tricked a whole bunch of people into buying their product

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:43:51 am
content: Quote from: OwO on March 25, 2019, 07:34:49 amUnlike in China if the purchaser has a problem and wants to they do have some consumer protection and the seller is obliged to repair, refund or replace. This is not dealing with the bottom end of Shenzen or evilbay.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 08:11:14 am
content: Quote from: OwO on March 25, 2019, 07:34:49 amI sure hope not, whatever the price they have to state that these are spares or repairs, if they are faulty they can bloody well fix them, sounds like they are worth exactly what we paid for them. I doubt it's a know faulty batgch as we are having to wait for them to be direct shipped from BK precision.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 08:20:09 am
content: Not saying they are selling known bad units, but rather the product was cheap to begin with. I mean I could produce something with exact same specs for probably $5 or so, even if they are to be good quality and have proper QA.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 01:56:20 pm
content: That's pretty unlucky, and obviously grounds for a replacement from Cole Palmer, best that you notify them asap.Just curious, did it come with a test sheet? Mine came with a double sided A4 sheet detailing test parameters and actual results (and serial number). Carrying out the test measurements would have involved turning every switch through every position!

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 02:02:42 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on March 25, 2019, 01:56:20 pmI was contemplating this but the way I see it, I bought something for £15 and I was able to fix the problem myself with a bit of tinkering - no point in bitching about it to Cole Palmer as that would be pushing my luck.Quote from: Gyro on March 25, 2019, 01:56:20 pmYes, it came with a sheet that specified the actual measured frequencies at each setting.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 02:08:46 pm
content: It sounds as if it took a hit in the packing department then maybe - and they either didn't notice or didn't own up.Possibly still notifying CP of a potential claim, even if you advise them that you'll try to patch it up yourself, remember it still has a full warranty. You might even get a refund!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 02:16:21 pm
content: It's worth telling them, clearly BK are not that great if they can do that much damage to a unit that usually costs so uch for what it is.

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 02:19:25 pm
content: True. I might give them a call and just let them know the state the unit arrived in.

author: melvb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:17:36 pm
content: Didn't get mine, took them over 16 weeks to decided they will not sell it to me even though they knew of the error within a few days.Ordered on 26/01/2019, order accepted and £31.60 taken from my credit card.Several emails about being out of stock then on 15/05/2019 an email:Hello,I have had a reply from purchasing; see belowThis item# 20042-66 has been back order for while due to supplier having issue with the components."I called supplier, and per supplier is start shipping out this item# 20042-46 from their end on 05/08. We should receive by next week on May 15."However, I can confirm that this is now in stock and I will ship out asap for youKind regardsGeorgiaGeorgia Speirs | Customer Service AdministratorThen on 20/05/2019 another email:Dear Melvin,Ref WO20190126xxxxxWe have reviewed your open orders for 1 x B&K Precision 4030 Pulse Generator, 10 MHz, part number UY-20042-66.Regrettably we need to advise that when your web order was placed with Cole-Parmer UK ( Jan, 2019) we had a genuine web site pricing error for this item, whereby it was listed with a UK list price of £12.83 (each).The web price error was corrected within a few days, however your order has the incorrect unit price of £12.83.The correct list price for this item (UY-20042-66) is £375.00 each (ex VAT)We are extremely sorry for the error and any inconvenience caused, however we are unable to complete the transaction based on the price of £12.83.As a gesture of goodwill, the best price we can offer this product for is £330.00 each / per unit (ex VAT).If you would like to proceed, I will request our Customer Service team to make the amendment to the order and send Order Acknowledgement. Alternatively if you would not like to proceed with the revised unit price of £330.00 (ex VAT) and would wish that the order is cancelled with a full refund, please let us know.We would like to take this opportunity to again apologise for the error and any inconvenience caused.Best RegardsMartinMartin Watts | Sales Lead - UKMethinks they are as incompetant as has been mentioned on here already.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:23:16 pm
content: I got the same. I told them I want 8% interest on my money that they have held for months. They are indeed hopeless. I would never use them for anything after this experience as they are simply hopeless box shifters who drop ship from manufacturers not the experts in scientific equipment they claim to be.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:35:55 pm
content: Well hopefully their back order will be contractually delivered and they will be stuck with a fuck load of them now

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 03:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on May 20, 2019, 03:35:55 pmThat was my intention should they not wish to honor the orders.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 05:18:56 pm
content: I've had the same email.Given they've acknowledged the order, taken money and confirmed a delivery date (al of which would constitute and confirm a contract had been entered into) I think they need their tails twisting a bit....

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2019, 05:57:15 pm
content: I believe the correct approach is “shitposting all over the internet”.

author: melvb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 08:30:15 am
content: I asked for 9% which is a third of the credit card APR for holding my money for a third of a year. Got a reply:Dear Melvin,We are extremely sorry for the error and associated mis-communication. By way of some form of explanation, the web pricing error was corrected via an automatic system update, so our UK commercial team were not aware and it was not flagged at the time.We will certainly review our processes to avoid a situation like this occurring again.I will discuss the costs you have incurred and come back to you ASAP,Best RegardsMartinMartin Watts | Sales Lead - UK

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 10:49:21 am
content: Frankly you shouldn't get any interest on money paid. Simply because trying exploiting obvious pricing error and bragging about it so it can be exploited further by others is unethical to begin with. You tried making company paying for device instead of you. Got nothing. Get over it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 11:41:10 am
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 10:49:21 amThey have offered me 5% and yes it is perfectly moral. They made the mistake. They corrected it after 2 weeks and yet only months later changed their minds having kept our money for months. Having realized the mistake why did they not cancel all of the orders then? this is crazy, what on earth goes on at cole and palmer? other than obviously not alot. If they want to be this incompetent and lazy that is their problem. If they had turned around when they corrected the price and said "sorry we made a mistake, we have no intention of selling at that price, here is your money back" I would have been fine with it. But they held my money for 4 months! After they knew about the error.Like I said, I will never go anywhere near these people. My employer would potentially be a customer of their products but I would never use them as a supplier, this has more than proven that they just don't have a clue or a care for what they are doing.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 12:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 20, 2019, 05:18:56 pmAs far as I'm aware, taking money and confirming an order puts them in a rather difficult legal spot. I don't think many would have minded if they'd come out right away and said they made a mistake. Confirming an order through a human and holding money for the order for a few months makes the story of a pricing error a bit harder to maintain. It's likely a mistake or rather a series of mistakes but it mostly seems to demonstrate they don't have their processes in order.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 12:17:27 pm
content: No moral bullshit questions here they had formed a Contract to sell product X for Y. Class Action time

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 12:42:57 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on May 21, 2019, 11:41:10 amThey owe you nothing to pay for your free dinner. I dunno if it was negligence by employees or their system is designed in crappy way that they did not notice there were orders with erratic price after pricing was (probably automatically) corrected. But it does not mean they need to lose tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds honoring those purchases. People in this thread perfectly knew what was the real price in USD on their website, yet still made the order. If goods were delivered, it would mean that company, not you paid for them. What honest person would do is informing them about the error and certainly not spread the news to increase their losses. If you so much cared about your money, you should inform them after price was fixed but no order cancellation happened.Also about errors. If you get money in you bank account by error and then start spending it, there is a big chance you will go to jail.https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-spent-10-000-accidentally-13599975https://www.thejournal.ie/teen-spent-money-put-into-account-3181320-Jan2017/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/10/man-jailed-theft-766k-accidentally-transferred-bank-account/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:01:04 pm
content: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/10602641/Price-glitches-Do-retailers-have-to-honour-pricing-mistakes.htmlQuoteQuote

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 21, 2019, 12:17:27 pmIf their terms & conditions are properly made, they didn't.QuoteThat is not US.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:14:29 pm
content: Seriously get off your Moral High Horse before you break a bone

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on May 21, 2019, 01:14:29 pmI'm not on moral high horse. I just find it wrong that people here feel entitled to get a free dinner and are upset when in the end they fail to do so.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:29:15 pm
content: Non lawyer internet guy is going to lecture others about law in another country. I'll get the popcorn.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:29:16 pm
content: I have to agree with wraper. Some people on this thread who purchased multiple items at a price they knew was a mistake and have then taken pleasure in the fact that they suspect it will cause the company hardship - well, in my opinion you've come off looking pretty bad.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 01:39:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 21, 2019, 01:29:15 pmI'm in EU, UK is in EU as well (so far), thus legislation is similar. My sister lives in UK, I order goods from UK without any customs. I directly experience their consumer laws.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 02:31:23 pm
content: As I always said i have no problem that they won't fullfill. what I have a problem with is that having realized the mistake they did not deal with the pending orders. I thought my employer was a mad house but apparently not by these standards.I'd never want to do business with this company as clearly they have no idea what they aru doing and I could get proper burnt.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 02:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fred27 on May 21, 2019, 01:29:16 pmnot really, would you fly with an air line knowing they are so bad the wings might drop off he plane or would you hope they are not in business at all? Thanfully all these people do is shift boxes - and badly at that. I hope they have learnt a lesson but doubt it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 02:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 01:39:55 pmUK is nothing like EU on consumer law. We have far stricter consumer laws and invoicing standards to protect the customer side of the sale contract. We're an outlier really across the world and have much much higher standards.Realistically you'll most likely get a refund and an apology. If it's on a credit card, the thing should result in the interest being paid back automatically by the card issuer so no tangible cost is occurred. If it's a bank transfer, then you'd probably have to take the business to small claims court to cover the deficit caused on contractual failure. This is probably not a lot of money so it's not worth it. They may offer it as a good will payment to avoid bad publicity.Regardless of the ethical position, the company did a miserably bad job of handling it and are incompetent at the very core of their business which needs to be raise as loudly as possible.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 02:48:24 pm
content: Unfortunately for Cole Parmer they sent emails intended to bind me into a contract to buy at the agreed price, it was heavy handed and desgined to ensure I pay for good they special order but it definitely made mention of the price so I believe that contract applies to them as well but until I get home I can't say what their T&Cs say about pricing errors.I'd be inclined to just get the refund if they hadn't come over heavy handed with that email, 8% interest is nothing as I only bought for myself and one other party, both of us wanted to keep the goods and possibly cover our costs.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 02:58:02 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on May 21, 2019, 02:42:07 pmIn practice UK offers worse consumer protection than most of EU, shorter minimum warranty, 1 year instead of 2. You sort of can get warranty after 1 year ended. There is vague "must be of good quality and last a reasonable amount of time for the purpose for which they are manufactured" in the law but good luck with that in court.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 03:36:19 pm
content: I just read this very amusing thread from end to end and I'm curious--did anyone here actually really want a BK Precision 4030 Pulse Generator? Why? The device is not a waveform generator despite its vague description and I don't think it can do anything that a FeelTech 6600 can't--except if you specifically need pulses, it is a bit easier to dial knobs. And it even comes in a cheap case, sort of a bigger version of the FeelTech.BK Precision is an interesting company, perhaps a sign of the times. They're right down the road from me and I have a fair amount of their stuff, but only because it can be bought for 5-25% of the MSRP. What is interesting is that they used to make test equipment, but they shifted to having their equipment made according to the original design by contractors in Taiwan. This is why you see 80's era products like this, as well as their linear power supplies and other stuff, being sold brand new. Socketed 40-pin ICs, red LEDs and all. Then, as some of their items became hopelessly obsolete and their customers (whoever they are) demanded newer products, they simply arranged to rebadge various second and third tier manufacturer's products as their own. I don't think that they have built or designed anything themselves in a long time.They actually have a pretty wide range of products, both modern and ancient. They still sell brand new analog oscilloscopes. Some of their products are worth having at pennies on the dollar--both rebadged newer stuff and archaic old stuff--but some things are just not. The BK 4030 Pulse Generator you guys are howling about is probably worth about the $25 discounted price if you need one.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 03:54:47 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 12:42:57 pmWhen people don't have a clue and/or don't care, even this action can be futile.Case in point: Some years ago I came across a product in a hardware store worth $30+ but it was labelled $4.95. I knew that had to be wrong, so I took one to the register to point out the error. The person took note of my feedback and then proceeded to ring up the item at the low price. While I wasn't really looking for this, at the price - I'd get it. So I did. A week later I was in the store again and thought I'd swing by and see if the error had been fixed. It hadn't. So I repeated my actions of a week earlier ... and got theexact same response. Thus I am now the owner of two such items at the princely sum of $9.90 - because, in essence, theywantedto sell them to me.So ... should my conscience let me sleep at night?I sleep pretty well, actually.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 04:33:29 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on May 21, 2019, 03:54:47 pmThat.Years ago my family were stocked up with frozen pizza because my local supermarket made an error, they had received a cage of pizzas that were on buy one get one free but were due to go out of date the next day. (they were good to freeze though)So, they reduced them to 10p each.It's important to know, the BOGOF offer still applies on items even if the price is reduced.So, if you bought two they cost 5p per pizza, I picked up ten.Except, when I got to the checkout, whoever had programmed in the reduction hadn't done it correctly and instead of halving the price, it deducted the full purchase price of an 'in date' pizza from the bill, leaving a negative total on the self serve checkout.I tried three times to point out their error to members of staff, each time with no success, they called a manager and the manager also failed to realise what was happening.So, I filled a trolley and spent an evening driving to my sibling's and parents houses to fill their freezers with pizza and managed to pay a couple of quid for a trolley full of shopping as well.I feel no guilt whatsoever, I tried to correct them, I tried hard.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 04:46:02 pm
content: I guess the question is at what point incompetence becomes your own issue, rather than that of the customer.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 04:54:03 pm
content: They clearly have no care in the world, not for themselves or their customers.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 04:58:12 pm
content: It's one thing to take advantage of an obvious pricing error to get something at a low price, and quite another thing to get butthurt and demand compensation when it doesn't work out. In situations like this there is often somebody processing the orders who has no clue that the price is out of line and in many cases they don't really have any skin in the game anyway. It can take some time to catch an error and then it can take more time to figure out the cause and correct it, then work out how to fix the orders that have already been processed.I don't really care what other people do, however I don't think I'd ever want to do business with anyone who is getting worked up and threatening a lawsuit over a company tying up a small amount of money for some time over what was obviously a mistake that they tried to exploit. These are the same sort of people who will find someone's wallet on the ground and then feel that they are entitled to rifle through it and keep any cash it contains and convince themselves that they are doing the owner a favor. The only ethical thing to do in my opinion is return the wallet to the rightful owner, contents intact, if they then choose to reward me great, otherwise so what. Go ahead, try to exploit an error, but don't get mad when it doesn't work out. I mean the amount of entitlement here, it's just over the top.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:13:20 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 21, 2019, 04:58:12 pmRead their email! they corrected the error in a couple of days (couple of weeks). They knew in January that they had made a mistake. Why did they not go through the orders made and cancel them? Nope, they are so incompetent or careless with regard to customers that they kept the money for 4 months.I have asked them for no compensation. I have simply pointed out that they knowingly held onto my money which they demanded months before the goods were ever going to arrive and that I would have otherwise had that money saved at 8% (8.5% actually). More recently i have found investments at 16% but I was honest and used the figures I was getting at the time of the sale. I simply asked them for the equavalent rate.I think for these berks to have enough egg on their face it will take ever egg laid for the next year.I work with incompetent people, we all work for an incompetent management. We are based in a town run by incompetent leaders (it's a shithole) in a county run by incompetent leaders (they went bust) in a country run by incompetent politicians that like to employ incompetent private companies to cost us all more money. I'll give any incompetent institution a run for their money.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:17:23 pm
content: You're asking for compensation. You gave them your money knowingly trying to exploit a mistake. They screwed up yes, but now you are demanding compensation because your investment didn't work out and you have found other investments that could have done better. If you wanted to earn 16% on your money you should have invested it in one of those other things rather than attempting to defraud a company that screwed up. It sounds petulant and childish to moan about it now, you knew it was an error going in and now you are acting as though they raped your mom and killed your dog. They owe you precisely the amount of money you paid them, nothing more.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 21, 2019, 05:17:23 pmStop putting words in my mouth. I took my money out of savings (at 8%) and made the purchase. They could not be bothered to cancel and refund 4 months after I gave them the money and realized the mistake. Normally I order stuff ond the money is taken instantly IF the item is in stock and it arrives in days. IF they don't have stock they take payment on shipment. This lot demanded the money effectively before the goods were even made or perhaps on the date they shipped from taiwan to the US to be reshipped to the UK! I have not pushed the argument on the contract that they have firmly established and accepted a refund. I am back where i started.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 21, 2019, 05:17:23 pm"Defraud ; to take something illegally from a person, company, etc." Making up crimes to bolster the point being made seems dishonest in its own right.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:34:20 pm
content: what was illegal about anything anyone did?

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:48:17 pm
content: IANAL but I'm pretty sure Cole Parmer "broke the law" in as much as contract offer and acceptance works. Assuming we share the same legal heritage in that regard anyway.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on May 21, 2019, 05:34:20 pmLibel is illegal I guess.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: Paul Moir on May 21, 2019, 05:48:17 pmIf that was true, you would not be able to pre-order games in Canada since pre-orders are often cancelled.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:59:07 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on May 21, 2019, 05:34:20 pmI was not illegal but has the same vibe in it.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 05:59:23 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 05:54:26 pmAre we already moving the goalposts?

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 06:09:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 05:54:26 pmThere's an awesome thing on the internet called "Google". I won't waste my time.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 06:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on May 21, 2019, 05:59:23 pmPre ordering is one thing, usually money is not taken until delivery and usually you are told WHEN you will get the goods. Cole and Palmer sold goods that they never had and never intended having until they had taken our money and then ordered the goods to pass on.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2019, 06:17:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on May 21, 2019, 05:59:07 pmDon't be obtuse!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2019, 05:05:07 am
content: Quote from: Simon on May 21, 2019, 05:34:20 pmIt's not illegal to be a complete asshole, but I'm glad "is it legal" is not the only yardstick most people use to assess their behavior.

author: AE7OO
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2020, 03:05:38 pm
content: Old thread I know.Here about 5 months ago I snagged some fairly good deals from Newark.An example, I picked up about 800 of the LVC1G single flip flops for somewhere around 3 bucks.But the best deal was 75 PIC32MM256 for less than $.25. It was 25 each of the 28, 36 and 48 pin devices.I don't feel the least guilty as they contacted me saying that some transistor price should have required a 1000 piece minimum order and I had only gotten like 500. I told them to cancel the line item if it was a problem. In the end they went a head and gave me the price anyway.About once a month I try to hit them up in various catagories. 2 weeks ago I got 500 smd 2N222 transistors for something like $.001 each. Also picked up a couple AMD volt ref for less than $3 each, in the LS8 body... can't bitch.What got me started was finding 900 0.1% 50ppm 1K18 1206 Vishway(sp) resistors for $9.00.That was almost a year ago, and I'm still finding good deals so...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2020, 06:19:19 am
content: Quote from: AE7OO on May 27, 2020, 03:05:38 pmThose are good deals, if you need the part in question. I'm curious what you're doing with 800 single flipflops, 75 PICs and 500 transistors? Even free is no bargain if the parts just end up taking up space. I suppose you could build something cool and creative if you have a lot of free time.A few years ago I pulled a bunch of full and nearly full reels of random passives out of the e-waste bin at work. Since they were free I couldn't resist, but I spent the next 3 years moving them from one spot to another, picking them up after they slid off a shelf and just generally having them in my way until I finally gave most of them away to some other members of this forum. There are just very few parts that I need more than a few dozen of one particular type.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2020, 01:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on May 28, 2020, 06:19:19 amStill better than having them end up in landfill!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2020, 12:03:56 am
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on May 29, 2020, 01:59:45 pmArguably yes, provided a significant portion of them do eventually get used. I'm all for trying to save stuff, however it's not hard to envision a situation where something is "saved", consumes space for years, consumes effort and energy transporting it around, passing off to new owners who got a "great deal" because it was cheap and then ultimately thrown away when somebody gets tired of trying to find a new home for it.There's an old George Carlin skit I'm reminded of where he says that leftovers make you feel good twice. First you think "I'm saving food!" and then later when you throw it away after it's spoiled you think "I'm saving my life!"