Fluke quality... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 01:36:47 am
content: Shitty plastics that become brittle and break. Why? This is the second 80 series I've had this issue with. I had to glue the threaded section as best as I could. You would think for the prices they charged for these meters, they would have put threaded inserts in a meter that has no separate battery and fuse door... :-(

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 01:41:42 am
content: Is this the used Fluke 88 that you got for $25?

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 01:56:45 am
content: NoThis is one I bought new from authorized dealer for $435 around 15-20 years ago...

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 02:31:01 am
content: How many times has the cover been removed over that time?.My fluke 77 (original series but assuming the same plastic) has not had this problem, but I do take care to return each screw to its original location and very careful not to over tighten. Even plastic around threaded inserts will crack if to much torque is used.Also with old HP gear for example there are plenty of cracked knobs, that have threaded metal inserts, either due to the plastic shrinkage (?) and/or the long term mechanical stress of tightened set screws.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 02:41:43 am
content: I've always been careful not to over tighten, in fact I use as small of a handle screwdriver as to not over torque. It's just crappy plastic. The tabs broke, and I'm very careful with opening and closing cases. It's only been opened up for battery changes, not like I've blown a fuse once a week. Anyway, I've got several Flukes, and they are definitely overrated, no better than other halfway decent meters.

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 08:54:56 am
content: That's funny....Your Fluke is 15-20 years old, is still working good and you are claiming for bad quality....I have an old 73 I bought used in 1993 and I still use It daily, It works still very well and no problem at all with plastic quality.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 10:01:10 am
content: Quote from: P90 on November 03, 2016, 02:41:43 amWhat?Every single Fluke handheld I have had was perfect in plastic. Actually I think Fluke is using the best plastic of all meters I know.May be you have a fake Fluke?Or, what can happen, if you have your meter exposed to some ozone (old DC electric motor)Ozone is really bad for plastics and can deteriorate it really fast.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 10:08:22 am
content: Don't forget the human factor, plastic can't beat over powered hand or fingers.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 10:26:58 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 03, 2016, 10:01:10 amOzone, UV, other Light, oxygen, and or high temperatures, they all degrade plastics over time.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 11:55:44 am
content: I agree with oldway and HighVoltage, Fluke make excellent multimeters.Yes, the plastic can go, depends on so many things, I recently restored a Fluke187 with the same issue as you - the plastic for the screws just disintegrated.Easily fixed by replacing the plastic with threaded hex spacer with a stud.As lowimpedance saysQuoteFixing this is even more problematic

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2016, 12:47:31 pm
content: I take good care of my stuff, not abused in any way nor stored in bad environment. I have other meters that are older, and plastics have held up better. Also, the lcd strips seem to be problematic on the older flukes, I've replaced a few.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 02:23:45 am
content: Quote from: Someone on November 03, 2016, 10:26:58 amAnd, depending on the plastic, Isopropyl Alcohol can cause cracking and crazing, especially of acrylic plastics. I don't know if the Fluke case plastics are subject to crazing/cracking with Isopropyl Alcohol or not, but I would suggest not using it to clean plastic parts, especially those that are under mechanical stress.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 09:18:26 pm
content: I own 5 80 model flukes with 2 being nearly 28 years old ; the other is 15+ [85-III] and 8 [87-V]. No issues with plastic other than what is well known, a snap clip for the LCD on the older 80 can break with age, but the chassis remains true as new. The clip are secondary support for the top assembly and the LCD , details from Mrmodemhead's blog. Now I have broken one or two of these clips already over decades as periodically the elastomers need cleaning, but when the case is screwed shut it provides the added pressure to hold the LCD elastomer connections true.I'm not sure what P90 has observed but as plastics go, YMMV depending on environmental exposure, e.g. organic solvents.I have many colleagues who own many kinds of Fluke DMMs as well as work in cal labs and seeing Flukes in their hundreds for cal over the years, chassis problems have not been a key concern, even the labels have endured for decades.Now the 3 common ills of old Fluke 80s are LCD elastomer dirt, rotary switch gunk, and non-re-settable fusible resistor blowing on an overload. All are easy fixes without affecting calibration.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 09:29:00 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 04, 2016, 09:18:26 pmBroken LCD clips... hot glue...LOLI'll give 'em credit for maintaining basic accuracy... mine haven't drifted much over 20 years.BTW, I use a cheaper multimeter for low voltage current testing as the fuses are cheap. I never use a in-series current check on high energy circuits anyway, that's what clamp meters are for...

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 10:17:32 pm
content: Yes, in the field a current clamp is safe bet for everyone for > 1 % accuracy is adequate. I prefer it too, far safer. But for versatility a single device that can do in-series measurement going from uA to 10s of A, AC or DC at <1% accuracy is good to have, used with all due caution, naturally.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2016, 10:25:47 pm
content: I find it a bit strange to hear a complaint about Fluke quality. For me there is no question about Fluke making quality products and better than almost everyone else. I can't think of many things that I bought 15-20 years ago that are still working.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 02:36:31 am
content: I have 10+ different Fluke multimeters ranging from 40 to just a few years old. What you're complaining about is misuse of the instrument. Most multimeters use self tapping screws. And some basic care needs to be taken when working with those. Some Fluke multimeters have metal threads too but not the 80 series. Plastic threads are easy to strip Fluke or any brand.. it doesn't matter.When working with plastic threads here are a few tips that will help you preserve them for a long time if you happen to open the instrument often.- Put a dab of petroleum jelly on self-tapping screws (vaseline).- Don't use a power screwdriver.- When screwing it in, rotate the screwdriver counter clockwise first for a few rotations.. this will help the screw match the thread.. where you sense the click or the screw drop a bit, that indicates the beginning of the thread.- Make sure the screw is straight and start screwing it in.. don't force.. apply slight pressure but screwing it in if you matched the thread should go very smoothly without much force.- Don't over tighten. Use two fingers only if you can't tell how much force to apply.I have never stripped a screw thread on any of my Fluke meters.. and I've opened some of them bunch of times.For more tips Mr. ModemHead has a great blog/resource with some great advice.http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/dirty-multimeter-clean-up/

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 03:10:57 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on November 05, 2016, 02:36:31 amNo, it's not misuse, just shit plastics. As I said, I have older non fluke meters and various equipment that don't have cracked plastic threads.Petroleum attacks plastic.Don't use power screwdriver... DUH! You think?I'm not overtightening anything.So I selectively over tighten the flukes, and not my other meters? OK!No my friend, it's cheap brittle plastic... that's all.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 05:57:02 am
content: I think at the same way.I do not approve in any case the plastic threads,especially if we are talking about instruments which are expensive like Fluke Dmm's.As we are arrived at this point ;can we try to create an collective petition or write an letter about this problem and send it to Fluke?I think that we can try to do this,also because from our part (custumer) we can't tollerate this kind of nonchalance for our investment in their instrument .This is an bonus .

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 10:18:07 am
content: May be a bad batch. Usually these become brittle when the plasticizer (additives which change the texture and flexibility of plastics) escapes the plastic. In good plastics the plasticizers are bound chemically and need harsh chemicals to detach them from the plastic.That is why it is always a good idea to avoid any sort of dissolvent or lubricants or greases from getting on the plastics - unless they specifically compatible (and the reason I prefer high quality contact cleaners like Caig - alcohol based cleaners will do pretty much the same as many here are correct in pointing out - but plastics may not survive harsh contact cleaners over long periods of time).Plastics compatibility is a very obtuse subject. But any automotive disk brake manual will have a section devoted to the compatibility between the seals, the seal lubrication and the hydraulic liquid and makes a good primer reading for understanding the concepts (can't have neither the hydraulic liquid nor the lube melt or swell the o-ring, and can't have the hydraulic liquid dissolve the lube - making it an interesting trio).BTW - Those awful cheap products that become sticky - that is the plasticizer (which removes fairly easily with IPA).

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 12:48:55 pm
content: Good photo. I've never seen one that bad. However there are misleading things in the photoThat is a Fluke 87 I, which means its about 28 years oldIf it was bought 15 years ago it was therefore usedIts not CAT rated so its clearly pre 1994The fractures do not look like deteriorated plastic, rather by impact. Plastic that deteriorates with age tends to have a particular look, the fractures tend to be 'feathered' and discolored; the photo has edges that are sharp and clean, and color of the interior is similar to the exterior means the dyes are intact, suggesting the plastic has retained its mechanical integritySample of defective plastics:https://mmics.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/problem-plastics-check-list.pdfAll in all, the damage in photo is unlikely caused by manufacture related defect but a secondary cause.Quote from: Ig_sherwood on November 05, 2016, 05:57:02 am

author: Testing123
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 01:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on November 05, 2016, 03:10:57 amHow about any of the following (in no particular order):Candle waxGraphiteLithium greaseLubix (https://www.amazon.com/Lubix-2-5cc-Puzzle-Lubricant/dp/B009DW09S4)Silicone Oil Polydimethylsiloxane (https://www.amazon.com/MicroLubrol-Silicone-Polydimethylsiloxane-centistokes-viscosity/dp/B00ZM36ER8)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 04:33:01 pm
content: Fluke 287/289, considered as top models, not much different.

author: omgfire
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 08:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: Testing123 on November 05, 2016, 01:44:33 pmI think your question is incorrect. Graphite and PTFE (Teflon) may come as solid (powder) lubricants (for example grease free Liqui Moly PTFE-Pulver-Spray) or as an additive to some oil (for example graphite grease). So, depending on what it is mixed with, products advertised as "PTFE lubricant" may or may not be inert to plastic.Lithium soap is a thickener which turns oil into grease. If particular oil deteriorate particular plastic, then lithium grease based on that oil will do the same.Silicone oil do not affect majority of plastics and elastomers (except TPE).If you need superior inertness, considerPFPE(DuPontKrytox) oil/grease. Some PFPE and Silicone products have specified dielectric properties, some don't.PS: I don't think you want graphite powder in your multimeter regardless of graphite's affect on plastic.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 09:00:18 pm
content: how about just plain soap as a lubricant. scrape some off on the threads.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 09:45:54 am
content: How about olive oil?Here in Spain we use it for everything from bicycle chains to salads.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 01:20:02 pm
content: To reduce the risk of stripping a threaded insert hole I first turn the screw counterclockwise by hand until it sits on the existing groove, it will fall or click into place which you can feel by hand. It should then screw in as easy as when you unscrewed it. If not easy, it might be in slightly off angle and is probably cutting another groove. Back out, insure the screw is straight then retry. If you've cut multiple grooves already keep retrying until you find the smoothest one but never force it.For Fluke cases, I have not yet stripped a screw hole so it doesn't hold, in 28+ yrs particularly the early models, which require the cases to be opened with each battery change.Lubricant really isn't necessary and worse case, you do not want to make it easier to cut new grooves.In low quality gear, the plastic can be so bad that it deforms or existing grooves can simply break off, no fault of your own. You can then fill the hole with crazy glue or Goop, whichever bonds better. If it doesn't bond no worries, it will pop out, if it bonds, its hold.Lastly but most involved, you can buy threaded inserts and new matching screws and replace the screws in toto.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 01:27:54 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 06, 2016, 01:20:02 pm+1That is the key to success, not only for plastic threads but for all threads.I also agree, never to use lubricants on any plastic threads.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 02:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 06, 2016, 01:20:02 pmLucky I have M3 and M4 recoil inserts, the taps and the insert tools. It does work, though often I also have to use some epoxy and a small diameter metal tube as an external brace for cracked plastic bosses. If you have older broken beyond repair equipment ( or old cellphones) you can strip the brass inserts out of them to use here, using a drop of epoxy to hold it in place.

author: ManateeMafia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 04:28:40 pm
content: I like the idea about using super glue or plastic epoxy to fill the hole. I have used a similar idea on anchor bolts for large equipment. A bolt wrapped in teflon tape was easy to remove and left plenty of threads to tighten.Perhaps use some PTFE coated screws and insert them in the glue before it hardens?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 04:49:26 pm
content: Quote from: ManateeMafia on November 06, 2016, 04:28:40 pmI just used bigger anchors, and a 2 pack construction epoxy as insurance.For the epoxy release you do not need any PTFE, just take some silicone furniture polish and spray the bolt, then wipe it off leaving a light coat, or use silicone mould release from the boat chandlers. Works a charm, and is not going to harm any plastics, though keep it well away from where you are working, otherwise the epoxy will not stick to anything ever again.The furniture polish works well for keeping building tools clean, just spray before use, and then afterwards wash them clean using water and a cloth, and spray again then put in storage. Cement will not stick on them easily then.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 05:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on November 06, 2016, 01:27:54 pm+2, slow counterclockwise turn while maintain the screw straight, until the 1st "click", where thread hit the exact start groove, then start the clockwise turn to fasten while the fingers still sensing if its derailing from the groove on the 1st few turns.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2016, 07:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on November 06, 2016, 05:43:12 pm+3

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 01:54:30 am
content: One issue with an old meter like this is we don't know what chemicals it was exposed to over the years. I used to work with rugged battery packs. Tough as all get out in drop and impact. If we wanted to open them without damaging the electronics inside we just sprayed them down with brake cleaner. The plastics just crumbled. No idea if this is P90's case but it looks like it could explain the Amazon posting. Self tappers into plastic is OK if you aren't opening them all the time or if you are careful when you do open them. We have no idea if P90's was ever abused (cross threaded, lover sized screw etc). Actually, given that Fluke was expecting this to be the method for changing the battery I'll go with wasn't treated with caution when removing the back cover.I do agree with those who think that inserts are darn near mandatory if you expect people to remove the back cover to change the battery. Fluke addressed that with the 87-3 which was released what, near 20 years back? I'm willing to overlook fuse doors held on with self tappers as you shouldn't be blowing fuses that much. So the 87-5 still has user serviceable parts behind self tappers. The comment about the 27/28 meters using self tappers is a non-issue in my book. Those have no user serviceable parts inside. Yes, we love to open things just for the heck of it, but the fuses and batteries are all accessed via a panel held with machine screws/inserts.Thinking about CAT ratings etc, I don't at all like the idea of gluing in machine screw standoffs inside of the meter. A plastic screw boss is non-conductive so no fear of voltage inside of the meter finding a case screw. A threaded insert is buried deep in plastic so again no issues with conductive paths. I can't say the same for a user added threaded boss. Like so many safety things 99.9% (maybe 99.99+%) will never care (won't operate in a high risk area or high risk will never result in an event that tested the meter's safety features) but you would hate to be the one that did care.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 02:23:45 am
content: Quote from: Robomeds on November 07, 2016, 01:54:30 amIt was not exposed to chemicals nor was it abused, if fact it's been used far less than any of my other meters, and they don't have any of these plastics issues. I never over tighten any of the screws in anything, I'm very cautious. In fact, that's why it's not a good idea to lube screws, since you end up over tightening them.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 03:52:05 am
content: I have a bunch of Fluke meters and never had an issue with any one of them...until I bought a used Fluke 12. It was in great shape, works well but the posts broke after I put a new battery in, the plastic seems to have become brittle over time. It doesn't look like it was abused or had chemicals applied at all. Posts didn't have visible cracks when I removed the screws and I'm quite gentle when I put any screws in plastic. The OP isn't just making this up...but it's also not what I'd call common. It happens, still the best DMMs on the market.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 10:10:49 am
content: Expensive multimeter VS Expensive multimeter ,can you figure out who is better

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 12:40:18 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on November 07, 2016, 10:10:49 amAnd in between....An unique combination of both, mixed of thread inserts and self taps in a single box, an expensive meter too, its Agilent/Keysight U1213A clamp meter, images below part of ->U1213A teardown.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 12:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on November 07, 2016, 12:40:18 pmI have a somewhat similar UEI clamp meter that has 3 screws total in order to remove the back half, 2 with brass inserts, and the third treads into plastic... genius...

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 04:06:11 pm
content: Come to think of it, I vaguely recall there was a recall of the 80 series in the early 1990s, but I cannot be sure. I think it did have something to do with the plastic case. If true, Fluke would consider such an issue a defect.In 2012, The 28-II EX were recalled because the screw back plastic could crack the chassis.http://www.fluke.com/fluke/sgen/support/safety/28-II-EX-Recall.htm

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 05:39:59 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on November 07, 2016, 12:40:18 pmIt's not really unusual. Metal threaded insert for the frequently-accessed compartment, cheaper self-tapping screws for the rest.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 06:07:19 pm
content: Fluke is great for all but...1. all "ScopeMeter" bw lcd Screens (Lines on screen - covers ALL product lines like EtherScope, 43b, 12x series, 190/190b series and all deviations)2. ANYTHING rechargeable (high "off" battery load killing batteries - and no external battery on/off switch - and supercap issue on 28x series)3. And I agree - plastic screen frames on all instruments - cheap plastic - sorry. My 3 YO Fluke 725 - plastic disintegrated. No solvents used on it - no excessive heat - just crappy quality plastic. My old 743b which is probably about 12 years old - the screen frame is fine.But in the Marine Environment I have seen a lot of really bad plastic and a lot of really good plastic. The good plastics from Navico(Simrad/Lowrance), Raymarine (Flir) and Garmin lasts fordecadesand stays white - and does not chip/break - where the cheap non super UV versions gets yellow after a year or two (Maretron, Hummingbird and a lot of other small companies) - Another year or two and it starts chipping - and another year and it has disintegrated completely. You might see the same at home with light switches, thermostats etc. even if the sun does not reach them directly. Both heat & UV impacts plastic lifetime. Salt water does also have an impact as I think the salt helps take the moisture out of the plastic?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 07:44:46 pm
content: It's not a "bad plastic" problem. It's a fundamental plastics-engineering problem.Folks, the plastic screw bosses are cracking because the base plastic is polycarbonate or a polycarbonate blend. It is not "bad" plastic. These plastics are typically classed as engineering resins because they are tough and flexible. The plastic is simply being inappropriately used. There are only two safe ways to put a screw into a polycarbonate boss: use an insert or use a thread-cutting screw.The reason why PC bosses break is that PC and its blends don't endure hoop stress well.Under no circumstances should cyanoacrylate glues be used on PC or PC blends. That has a real chance of degrading the plastic and causing it to disintegrate.Flukes continued lack of use of threaded inserts or other, better means of battery access has been a decades-long disappointment with no excuses given the price point and Fluke's available resources.P.S.Lubricating the screws will do nothing to help this cracking. It is entirely due to the fact that PC is a high-modulus material and responds to extended periods of strain by cracking instead of stretching.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 08:16:46 pm
content: I have decided to get rid of all my Fluke meters.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 08:54:07 pm
content: Im just amazed by peoples around here.I mean ,why do you like when companies like Fluke rape's you?The price of their meter are bloody expensive and the quality build for that price is not really well.Im also wondering about how in some $40 taiwanese multimeter i can find all metal thread's for the screws ,but not here for circa 400/500 bucks!!!and of course we are talking about FLUKE !!!!This is just incredible !!!Just incredible !!!However the fault is also yours ,because no one of you are telling to fluke about this big mistake.Don't be like a sheep ,because you can't justify plastic threads, this such obvious lack of quality !!!You can't fix it with grease,lubrificant ecc,ecc,ecc,ecc,ecc...so please stop talks bullshit about this plastic threads,them simply sucks,end of the questions !!!Many of you can send to them an letter ,go to their forum's to start speaking about this very nasty problem.P.S im getting out with my brand new fluke and with fluke in general,if anyone is interested ,you can contact me in PM.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 11:52:30 pm
content: Well om the plus side for the Fluke 28x meters are they are extremly precise even after 6-8 years. I had my 6 year one in for calibration - and the meter was 100% within spec - and not very much off original cal certificate.And much other Fluke gear the story is the same. I have a really battered 743B that I think is 14 years old - which I bought broken and fixed - and it is still bang on on every single parameter. Sourcing or measuring - spot on - and it is great for validating temperature probes - it is darn precise and very stable compared to most other temperature sensor measurement systems I have tried.That is why I like my Fluke meters despite their moronic battery life and super-cap issues they usually wont acknowledge. For the MEASUREMENTs- and you can order every single part inside the case from their spare parts department. So WHEN the screen clip goes on a 725 - the replacement part no is in the manual.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 01:37:31 am
content: Quote from: ericloewe on November 07, 2016, 05:39:59 pmIt is, that meter has 3 screws, 1st one for securing the battery compartment uses metal threaded insert, and the other two for the whole back cover is using two mixed types, go figure.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 01:42:04 am
content: Quote from: P90 on November 07, 2016, 02:23:45 amYou still haven't mentioned how and where it was stored, there must be some difference between it and your other meters. Or perhaps you got unlucky and the batch of plastic was bad?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 01:44:42 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on November 07, 2016, 10:10:49 amHard to tell much from your picture. Meter on the left uses a small glass fuse for the low current. I only see glass used in the cheapest of meters, not the high end ones. The 10A fuse is 500V rated and also doubt is has a high break current. Funny to see wires soldered into PCB. Not the ones for the connectors but the brown / white pair. What's up with that? The black jumper reminds me of some of those crap single sided PCBs with all the jumpers on them. I've had some fun with meters having poor creepage distances like the meter shown. Meter on right has a stripped hole someone bunged up?I've never ran any Gossen products and have no idea how they would fair against the others I have looked at. I can't believe the meter on the left represents what they are selling today. I have ran a few Asian made Flukes and these have all been some of the most electrically robust meters I have looked at. Too bad I can't say that about the 87V.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 01:47:59 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on November 08, 2016, 01:44:42 amThe threaded inserts also look to be pressed in place rather than moulded into the plastic, so the residual stresses are still there and they can pull out. Not a lot better for screws that are rarely taken in/out.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 11:01:02 am
content: I've never been a fan of Fluke's self tapper approach (one proof inmy 179 teardown, although I concede the screws they choose are extremely high quality).I have repaired a few flukes of my own and found out that, when treated carefully, the self tappers tend to endure quite a good time. The problem, however, is that it leaves margin for error to literally "screw up" things: one heavy handed person here, one missed thread there and not only the thread material starts to give up but I also have seen posts split in half and broken at the base. Of all three, rebuilding the thread is the easiest (I usually use steel wool surrounding the screw threads).Note that this is may not be the OP's fault: if a post is severely weakened during final assembly, it may plague the rest of the equipment's service life.The brass inserts mostly help with the most common of the problems: skipping the thread. But I have seen my share of split and broken posts with these inserts.As to the reasons why this is done? Hey, I guess that is Fluke's feeble shot for a planned obsolescence

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 09:31:33 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on November 08, 2016, 01:37:31 amOh, now I see what you mean - I misinterpreted the image.Yeah, thatisstupid. Would love to be a fly on the wall during that design meeting.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 02:33:29 am
content: Like this?WTF?

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 06:31:06 am
content: For all the Fluke haters feel free to send me pics and prices for your junk Fluke meters. I have no problem adding to my collection. Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow, as a hobbist this is normally acceptable for a professional I'll stick with Fluke. Should be some good deals coming in my PM box since Fluke is such junk.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 11:40:13 am
content: Got out my new old Fluke 73.Wiped the screw threads tips into the side of a plain wax candle. I screwed them in and they turned like butter, felt like no resistance until the last turn which was the fastening one.The amount of wax applied to each screw would be barely enough to fill a single thread. I've done this before of course many times and less is best.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 06:33:27 pm
content: Quote from: BMack on November 09, 2016, 06:31:06 amHow many non-Fluke meters have you tried?Have you tried any Hioki, Yokogawa, Amprobe, Gossen, Brymen or Chauvin Arnoux?

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 10:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 10, 2016, 06:33:27 pmHe's tried radio shack and harbor freight...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 10:40:19 pm
content: Quote from: P90 on November 10, 2016, 10:32:13 pmNope. Those Harbour Freight meters are very accurate&fast (manual ranging=>fast even on cheap meters).

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2016, 10:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 10, 2016, 10:40:19 pmWell, at least the screw threads on the harbor freight meters can't be any worse than the flukes...

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 02:26:13 am
content: People need to get it through their skulls that not all plastics are the same. The only reason to use threaded inserts is if cheap, shitty plastics like ABS are used. Glass filled nylon or polycarbonate has a similar tensile strength to brass, so why would you add an insert that's no stronger than the plastic itself? Not to mention that brass inserts are usually very short, like 3-4mm, while the self tapping screw in a Fluke 80 series has at least 20mm of thread length. A brass insert would actually beweaker.Brass inserts are a crutch so that the manufacturer can get away with using cheap plastics. That's why you only find them on cheap asian crap (like UniT, or Keysight).

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 03:08:35 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on November 11, 2016, 02:26:13 amIf you say so...%#@?!'/`#%

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 03:38:16 am
content: Quote from: P90 on November 10, 2016, 10:32:13 pmUm no.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 03:43:26 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on November 11, 2016, 02:26:13 amNope, not sure if you're ever saw or used these kind of industrial components like attached below for example, its an industrial switch or other types too that most of them are panel mounted.The plastic is not cheap ones, and they're designed to sustain soft impact or mild pressure when used/switched on and off all the times with high endurance for years, yet they have to use brass insert and not relying on the plastic body alone using self threaded screws to secure them at the panel.The brass insert in this example was snugly fit and doesn't come off easily, you will have to yank it out using flat screw driver and will deform part plastic body permanently.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 03:54:50 am
content: I'm not sure I agree that brass inserts are just a crutch but I do agree that in some cases they are no stronger than screws into properly designed plastic. In general there is nothing wrong with the newer Flukes that use a metal insert for the battery door and self tappers to hold the housing together. This is doubly true in cases where the fuses can be replaced via the battery door. So there is no reason to bash Fluke for using plastic self tappers in the Fluke 27/28 meters. I don't like that they were used in the old 87 and the small brick meters (the old 70 and 20 series meters). However, I don't think any of Fluke's current meters have self tappers on a battery door. At worst you have to deal with self tappers to replace a fuse. Not perfect but hardly a big design flaw.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 04:04:58 am
content: Quote from: BMack on November 11, 2016, 03:38:16 amCare to elaborate?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 05:11:39 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on November 11, 2016, 02:26:13 amNo. That's not it at all. Inserts are *not* required with ABS and ABS is not necessarily a bad plastic. Inserts *are* required with PC or PC/ABS blends instead of thread *forming* screws.And the issue of inserts or thread forming screws being stronger/weaker is a non-comparison. There are a ton of variables involved. However, in general, a threaded brass insert will be a more durable fastener for frequent use such as battery access.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2016, 12:42:35 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on November 11, 2016, 03:54:50 amCheck my teardown of the 179 I sent before... It uses self tappers for the battery compartment.

author: ZeTeX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2016, 06:01:20 pm
content: There is no reason for the thread to get fucked if you unscrew and screw it correctly. Yes, its a 500$ instrument, It should of have a proper brass \ steel inner thread that can't get fucked, But really its not the end of the world, Just need to contact fluke and see what they have to day.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2016, 11:46:10 pm
content: Quote from: ZeTeX on November 12, 2016, 06:01:20 pmThey have the same shit as yester day

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 01:51:05 am
content: And Fluke customer service is crap.Last time a I called to order some parts, I asked for a total price including shipping, and the lady said they don't know shipping charges until items ship, and they'll charge my credit card accordingly at that time.Also, she could not determine if the particular parts I needed were sold as a pair or individually. WTF?Not the first time I've experienced shitty service from Fluke. The warranty policy is BS too, if you read the fine print...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 03:04:49 am
content: Most people have had good experience with Fluke for warranty service, that is from the most of the reports here. This has been one of the big selling points for Fluke is that they have a great warranty and take care of people. You seem to be having more problems than most.

author: P90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 04:10:46 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on November 13, 2016, 03:04:49 amPerhaps they have better service outside of the STATES...

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 07:06:07 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on November 11, 2016, 12:42:35 pmI should have remembered that one. I had one. I think it's the last one. The 11x family is insert for the battery (self tappers for fuses). The 87-5 has latches (for lack of a better term). Not sure about the 287. The 101 uses a latch system. I suspect the 177 has screws because it's an old meter based on an even older industrial design (note the similarities between the 17X and the 73-4 meter.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 07:07:22 am
content: Quote from: P90 on November 13, 2016, 04:10:46 amI'm in the states. They provided me with good service.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2016, 08:37:08 am
content: Quote from: P90 on November 13, 2016, 04:10:46 amYeah sure, good luck. Try to order a Fluke spare part. The Dutch department does not even respons most of the times. The only one helpful up to now is Fluke USA.About quality. I have a Fluke 720 KV divider. It was not used for over 20 years and stored in a climate controlled room. (at that time the callab was turned into a computer server room but all cal gear stayed there unused until it came to me a few years ago)http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=2332lots of cracked plastic, tried to order parts over here but never got a response.A Fluke 8020, together with a Norma DMM stored in the half open barn from a friend for over 25 years. The 8020 needed a new display because it became black (probably due to low temperature), I replaced it and it still works great and is still spot on. The Norma had a fungussed leather case but the meter itself worked after I renewed some solder joints. That meter does not use screws. Every part is clicked together and to my surprise all clips are stil intact and not became brittle.I have a 77-III, found it in the mud about 20 years ago. Used it in my garage over 10 years. The yellow was complete black from oil, about 10 years ago I moved it to my lab, cleaned it and use it still without problems. No screw problems.My >500 dollar Agilent is only used in my lab. The plastic foam of the probes falls apart, the outside of the meter also, had to replace the common bus because it broke inside the plastic. But it is still spot on and I use it every day for my job (repairing test and calibration gear in a clean lab, never used it automotive)About plastic softner problems like in the Agilent. The steering wheel of both my old LandRovers became extreme sticky. The body of one of my Nikons idem. Almost all old HP instruments I have or have seen, have a sticky surface if it was "rubberized" (I do not know what they put on there)I have several old Tektronix plugins for the 500 and 7000 scopes. I the 500 all vernier potmeter connections are split in almost every plugin. On the 7000 knobs break and other plastics to. They were pretty expensive in those days.I have seen several Flukes with function switch problems where cleaning the black stuff or other tricks did not work. I have seen several broken display clips in 80 series. Several Fluke scopemeters with display problems caused by glass bonding coming loose (also in several G&M secutests, it is often fixable but I do not know for how long). But no bad experience with the screws in Flukes. Funny however that all dead Flukes I have seen that were killed in action had the safety parts still intact. One 123 scopemeter had a dead display and two dead ASICs. It was working fine until it was stored over night in a car while it was far below zero.But we are talking about gear that is over 20 years old. It is not build for eternity but comes closeMost gear from that age needs some TLC now and then. I have a collection analog meters and those are even older but some have also cracked cases, worn screwholes, broken plastic etc. I do not know the history of most so no clue what caused the problems. After so many years things can go bad. I have owned cheaper meters over the years but not one survived. If you look at the price per year the Fluke is not so expensive. And most important they stay in cal and can be trust for the primary use: measuring

author: kasone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2016, 12:28:56 pm
content: I am in the United States and have had excellent service from Fluke. They even repaired a model 177 no charge even after I told them that I was not the original owner. I called them not expecting much, but they far exceeded my expectations.