Small Drill Presses - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 12:42:25 am
content: Hi Guys...I am looking for a small drill press for my workbench and that is small enough that it can be stored away when not in use. I found this one in the link below and I am think of getting it and the vise.http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-38128-Bench-Drill-Machine/dp/B0017PUR1YOpinions? Suggestions? I appreciate know what you think or what you use.

author: TorqueRanger
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 12:46:58 am
content: What are you using the press for

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:45:39 am
content: Small projects from light to medium duty. Anything from drilling PCBs to around the house projects that may involve wood, metal, plastic and things like that.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:54:10 am
content: From the tool company we all love to hate...Harbor Freight 5 Speed Drill Presshttp://www.harborfreight.com/garage-shop/stationary-drill-press/5-speed-drill-press-38119.html

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:55:12 am
content: $250 is a lot for a little press like that. I know it's a Proxxon and that they are good, but I don't think that will suit you very well for things other than pcb drilling and small stuff.http://www.lowes.com/pd_197820-46922-3320-01_0__?productId=1207335&Ntt=drill+presses&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Ddrill%2Bpresses&facetInfo=How about that?I have a press that was cheap back in 1984 and it still works great today.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:57:19 am
content: Quote from: Fluxed Matter on December 12, 2012, 01:45:39 amThat little toy will be useless with any drill above about 4mm, it's too fast and has no torque at all.Get the likes of the Harbor Fright one above (no, that's not a typo), if it's too tall, cut the shaft down.

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 05:04:51 am
content: Wow! The harbor freight one is really cheap and I know you get what you pay for but I might be tempted. How hard do you think it would be to cut the shaft down? Which do you think would do the job the best hack saw, band saw, or pipe cutter?

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 11:16:54 am
content: How much "small" does it take to make up for "shit quality"? If not much, I have seen these before, never used one, but it popped into mind when you mentioned drill press i can put away when not i use.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22393__Hobbyking_6_in_1_Machine_Tool_Sanding_Turning_Sawing_Wood_Turning_Drilling_Milling.html

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 11:25:14 am
content: i got the bench drill like the harbor freight one but i dont think that can do the small job like drilling pcb, small bits are very sensitive you can easily break them when working with such heavy duty bench drill. i use dremel like handheld small rotating tool to drill pcb, even with that i managed to break few <0.5mm bits.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 11:35:17 am
content: Quote from: Fluxed Matter on December 12, 2012, 05:04:51 amIf you have an angle grinder, try using the very thin abrasive cut-off wheels for steel. They're about 1.5mm thick and cut through steel amazingly quickly. Just be sure before you start that the cutting wheels have a bit more depth than half the diameter of the shaft you need to cut. It's maybe solid steel. Do it outside, it throws a lot of iron filings - not something you want in an electronics workshop.Though personally I think cutting down a drill press is a bad idea. You really can't find somewhere with space for it?Incidentally, if you ever do want to use a very fine drill bit in a drill press, you'll probably find that the drill press chuck jaws have bevels and so can't close on the fine drill bit. But there is a way - get a small pin vice, use it to hold the tiny drill bit, then clamp the pin vice in the big drill chuck.Most drill bit breakages are caused by unintended oblique forces on the bit. But that shouldn't happen with a drill press.

author: cybergibbons
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:05:28 pm
content: If the column on one of these cheap drill presses was solid steel, you could sell it for more in scrap!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:24:27 pm
content: I am not a machinist, but there are very skilled ones on eevblog.Drill presses can be used for 2 reasons and then all stages between, as a helping hand to as a precision drill. The more precise, the less likely it can be dissembled for storage. That's your trade off.Low cost ones like Dremels, are just mounts for a drill so you can free one or both hands to guide the work. However, plastic or soft metal parts and the free play of its gearing make it difficult to position precise locations for very small cuts, like for PCB, without a lot of hand adjustments. But the dremel press matches the dremel well; if you match a Dremel to a precision press, it won't make the Dremel a mill. But, a Dremel press can be easily disassembled for storage, cleaning or replaced with spare parts.A better precision press is rock stable, heavy, and has more precise adjustments. The Proxxon model is such a press, but its value can only be realized with a precision drill, that's why often a precison press has the drill also built in, to control that variable [ instead of using clamps to hold a hand-held Dremel into it, as in the Dremel press.]Now, as you go up in price, the amount of precision rises too, and the ability to disassemble them for storage also becomes less easy because of their precision parts.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:25:54 pm
content: Interesting, that looks like a clone of the popular Austrian one:http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIMAT-The-6-in-1-Desktop-Machine-The-CoolTool-/380340795758Quote from: peter.mitchell on December 12, 2012, 11:16:54 am

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fluxed Matter on December 12, 2012, 05:04:51 amProper hacksaw.Don't cut it down unless you simply don't have the space for it, or you'll limit your selection of bits (good luck getting a 16mm drill in there if you do).If you want a PCB drill specifically, get the overpriced thing you found. If you want something capable of drilling holes for pots, switches, and so on, get a real one.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 01:35:53 pm
content: I have a Proxxon hand-held drill tool with a drill press for about 20m years. It still works fine up to about 3mm in PCB material and other soft materials which can be drilled at high RPM. Don't expect to drill large holes into metal. For that you need a bigger drill press with more torque like the one from Harbor Freight (I'd get the version with the keyless chuck).

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2012, 05:19:34 pm
content: This is a nice introduction to drill speeds, slanted more towards the hobbyist it's not confusingly comprehensive or bafflingly mathematicalhttp://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/drill_speed/... the conclusion appears to be: a slow powerful drill will be a lot more useful than a fast low power drill.I own something similar to the HF drill, bought it years ago and nearly killed myself carrying it home on a bus. It's one of the most used tool I have, sufficiently accurate for most tasks, quiet enough to run at 3am, reliable... In short, if you can make room for one then do so.On PCB drills:The recommended speed for these small drills (<1mm) is insane, 10,000 or 20,000 or 60,000+ rpm is not unusual. The link suggests lower speeds are ok but great care must be taken with the applied downward force. This is certainly one reason they snap so often.The second reason for PCB drill breakage is down to the carbide used in their construction. Carbide makes for a very hard drill, it will stay sharp even when cutting fiberglass, carbide also makes for a very brittle drill - it doesn't bend, it snaps with ease and can even shatter if dropped on a hard floor. So, how much sideways motion can a 0.5mm take? Not much.If the work moves, vibration or sliding, by 0.1mm you could have a snapped drill on your hands. Maybe not the very first time this happens but the 3rd or 10th - vibration can be a killer.This bring us nicely to a phenomenon called runout. Lots of info out there but this is a nice summaryhttp://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7756Using big drills runout results in oversized holes, using little drills runout results in broken drills. It's vibration again, 0.1mm of runout - wobble - when using a 0.5mm drill results in a lot of stress.The runout on the HF machine is unknown, I guess 1/10 of a mm would be considered very good.Also unknown is the runout of Dremels but this has some useful informationhttp://www.buildyourtools.com/forums/index.php?f=8&t=1244&rb_v=viewtopic, 0.0055" = 0.14mm, 0.085" = 2.2mm !!!In comparison the Proxxon IBS/E has a claimed runout of 0.03mm (3/100mm) and a claims precision colletshttp://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28481.phpAlso the Proxxon drill stand is a lot more ridged than the Dremel stand.Out of interest, an industrial PCB drill may have runout in the 0.0002" to 0.0008" range...http://www.lionprecision.com/tech-library/articles/targa-dynamicrunoutarticle.pdfCan I use my bench drill for drilling PCBs? Yes. Do the drills snap? Yes. Would a Proxxon be better? Yes. Would I swap my bench drill for a Proxxon? No, not for the work I usually do.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 11:12:42 am
content: Proxxon is outstanding piece of equipment, but only for very light duty work. I mean like pcb drilling, machining some plastic. I know that those tools are used often by miniature replica makers. They are quite expensive, but that's what you pay for quality. My friend uses Proxxon drill stand + Proxxon grinder for drilling PCBs. He paid something like $180 for that (quite a significant amount of money where I live) but he never broke a drill after that. Proxxon is nice, but that is a PRECISION tool, not a workhorse for deep digging in metal.I on the other hand use a harbor freight-like 5 speed drill press to do that. First problem with those is of course generally shitty build quality, loosely fitting parts etc. Another problem is that highest speed is in order of 4k rpm, so using small drills means very slow plunging into pcb or the bit will break. You can of course rework such drill press to be precise (like bore the spindle slide, fit quality bearings, etc) but to do that you would need a well equipped workshop which would mean you woldn;t need a HF drill press in the first place. Rigidity is somewhat crappy, but that can be improved. At least HF-like pressed sold in europe have the column hollow instead of full bar, which of course saves cost. This can be filled with concrete or epoxy/glass filler mix.

author: Fluxed Matter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 06:23:46 pm
content: Thanks everyone for all the replies and information. Many of you make good points. Truth is space is very very limited. I don't even have the space over the hood of my wife's car, that would be bonnet for you Aussie folks, to set it on.I really did not want to cut a drill press to make it fit. The main reason being is that I am not really equipped to do so except for with a proper hacksaw.saturation, I had consider the dremel drill press also but then I thought if I could find something a bit more medium duty yet small it could also be used for other various jobs. I too am not a machinist by no means, but I am impressed by the skilled ones we have on this forum.Thanks ecat for the great information on drill speeds and I am still re-reading much of it.Having a dedicated drill press just for PCB drilling and such is a luxury that I can't afford right now but if I could use it for other things it makes it a more justifiable expense to my wife.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 07:30:06 pm
content: You put a car in your garage? I'd put the car outside and convert the garage into a workplace!

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 09:39:56 pm
content: Do NOT  get the Dremel drill press - it's a piece of shit.The mounting for the dremel drill is plastic and can (does) give, allowing the drill bit to move out of vertical when you press the drill down.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2012, 09:58:07 pm
content: Dremel drill press is something you play with your neighbor when you are young.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 02:26:21 am
content: i'm considering to get the 6in1 machine tool from hobbyking suggested by saturation. $98 is a too good to be true price (including the lathe) compared to unimat, maybe i can study the "lego" mechanism and see if i can mod it. but unfortunately for new member from Malaysia they limit to $75 for first order damned. they ask me to become gold member first? sorry not gonna happen, i'm not rc helicopter maniacwhich items they sell most.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 03:41:00 am
content: Quote from: notsob on December 13, 2012, 09:39:56 pm+1Bought it about a week ago, haven't actually been able to use it yet with much success. Pointless.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 05:33:31 am
content: Quote from: 8086 on December 14, 2012, 03:41:00 ami've suspected this one since its a bit tricky to hold a curvy shaped tool in place. probably cnc or 3d printer is needed to build a holder that follow the negative shape. thats why i bought a simple symetrical shaped knockoff dremel lasttime, a simple cylindrical shape is easy to make the holder. for poor holder that cannot hold stiff the tool in place, maybe you can brace here and there wherever there is lose contact between the holder and the tool with sometype of hardpaper pieces etc. cable tying to hold it in place is also probably necessary. YMMV.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 10:31:19 am
content: Do not buy it you will regret. Most parts are made from plastic and the chuck runout is horrific. I learned the expensive way don't do it!!! It's barely usable I am not blowing this up its very useless. It's actually a copy of Unimat and designed for kids.The factory also makes the machines in full aluminium and some sets also come in CNC!! Check Alibaba or taobao. I don't think its any better.Get a 7x12 lathe with a mill attachment, it might be more expensive but its more usable and less expensive in the long run.Quote from: Mechatrommer on December 14, 2012, 02:26:21 amtapatalk

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 10:58:07 am
content: I'm dying to get a decent drill press, mill and other stuff. I just have such difficulty searching for stuff. It's great to be able to ask on here with the likes of robrenz in da house but still I feel like I would need someone to come and hold my hand while I find machinery to cut that hand off with! Until I find such a person I will just keep reading threads like this and keep dreaming

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 12:17:17 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on December 14, 2012, 03:41:00 am+1 too . I have the previous model than the one on the picturebut I broke a lot of bits before understanding the drill press is not stable at allI checked the actual model in a shop and it's still not rigid enought for meyou end up breaking a lot of small bits. it's surely ok for bits >>1 mmI ended buying a mini mill with brushless motor like this oneit's a lot more money (around 800 euros) but it is very nice tool to make pcb AND metal thingsI used 0.45mm drill bits without breaking them ...http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Reviews/sieg_sx2/sx2.htm

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 12:41:59 pm
content: Now your talkingdecent quality and materials. Yes, alot more money than a Dremel drill press or even a Proxon but you get a lot less headaches and the ability to do a whole lot more. I suggest using a collet in a unit like this instead of the drill chuck for small circuit board drills or end mills. You should get much less runout of the drill tip for a circuit board drill and much more rigidity with milling. Drill chuck is ok for everyday drilling with regular drills.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 01:00:00 pm
content: Here, I made a video of the chuck runout(i am not sure if it's even qualified to be called a chuck) of the 6-in-1 machine ehhem toy. It's really pathetic but it's fun playing lego. Backlash is pretty aweful too. Probably made by this guyshttp://szzhouyu.com/Product.asp?BigClassName=%CE%A2%D0%CD%C6%D5%CD%A8%CD%F2%C4%DC%BB%FA%B4%B2It's so bad you can see the whole test bar moving vertically. I can do better precision with a file and bare handsThe only way to fix this up is to change the chuck. The spindle runout is okay, and it has bearings on both ends. Swapping the 48mm M12x1 chuck should fix the problem but the chuck will cost 1/2 the price of the machineSo if you want something similar search for Sherline or Taig. If you want a drill press for PCB, get the Proxxon. If you want more power, use cordless drill with a portable support for minimal precision. This will probably solve your real estate problem.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 04:14:31 pm
content: Years ago I bough a drill press on auction. Had a poor chuck, but I found a pair of precision keyless chucks on sale at a hardware store ( $10 each, they had no idea of what they were, so I bought both they had) and had the drill spindle machined down and retapped to fit the drill thread. Works perfectly, though the runout is getting bad as the spindle bearings wear. around 0.2mm now. Not good for PCB drilling with carbide, but perfect for HSS bits.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 05:30:54 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on December 14, 2012, 12:41:59 pmyep. I was looking for something better than the dremel I have, I looked at proxxon and finally ended up with mini mill.really happy with it.yes I have the collet er32 system for itbut blieve me or not the standard chuck on the picture is really precise. I drew a lot of 0.45mm holes with it without breaking any drill.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 05:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 14, 2012, 12:17:17 pmOh, I think you just tipped me off to a New Year purchase. That looks like a very versatile tool.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 06:18:09 pm
content: thank you very much nukie for the 6in1 tool review i really appreciate it. this is what a forum for. luckily the hobbyking rejected my appeal to order the item, i browsed in ebay it double the price of hobbyking, but still half the price of unimat. if the problem only the chuck runout as you've demonstrated, i think i'm still willing to pay at hobbyking's price, but in ebay its double the price i'll think twice or thrice. cant the chuck be dismantled and realigned? another issue is i'm not sure if it has enough power to lathe soft metal or wood as claimed, with 24W and 10:1 gear reductionif it cant then certainly its a toy.

author: ecat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 06:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on December 14, 2012, 05:51:14 pmMake sure you read up on and understand the machine's limitations with respect to the jobs you have in mind.In the world of big-metal milling machines these mini-mills are the equivalent of Dremel class. Typical problems are: slop in the table ways, slop in the head, head droop, head sticking, backlash. Don't get me wrong, they are usable, just understand what you are getting yourself into before you part with your cash

author: calin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 06:44:43 pm
content: For PCB I got this -http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_26711_-1. Definitely not even close to a real drill but u don't need more for PCB-s that are mostly SMD anyways.What I did for "targeting" the holes I simply took the thing an mounted it on a box , underneath I have an mini webcam with a crosshair. The etched boards I make have the holes etched just a tiny dot in the middle . If I put a work light in top is enough to have the light shining through the hole. Of corse u need a bit of calibration for the whole contraption and blow the dust off the webcam after 5-6 holes but works a treat. Simple fix for shaky hands.Basically this is the reverse of the bottom - up drills used a big while ago in industry; certainly not as nice and clean but heck it works for how much drilling I do. I-ll make a picture of the contraption when I get the time.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 07:00:26 pm
content: Quote from: ecat on December 14, 2012, 06:41:37 pmif the mini mill is too basic for you, I also looked at the top of the mini mill :but definitely not the same price ...https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/index.php?cat=c10000_Fr--smaschinen.html&showCategories

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 07:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 14, 2012, 12:17:17 pmThose are nice, but heavy to be moving it, the poster mentioned that he wanted to put it away when not in use.David.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2012, 08:31:35 pm
content: you can't do decent metal machining with something you can put in a drawer after using it ...