20nm process - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 12:28:13 am
content: Just received a Xilinx newsletter with a headline "Industries First 20nm..."I don't pay much attention to this miniaturisation stuff but the last time I heard anything about it they were down to 45nm.Given the atomic radius of Silicon for example, at around 100pm this means we're looking at a process of approximately 100 atoms deep!!How stable would this structure be and what, if any, would be the limits. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that intell had carried out some research in this field and had found a structurally "flakey" limit

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 12:44:15 am
content: Intel broadwell is going to be on 14 nm and released early next year, they are claiming at least 3 more process nodes under development, down to 5 nm.There is tons of stuff you have to worry about at this level: there is no one single bogeyman nor a single magic bullet that makes it work.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 08:02:04 am
content: Also from a manufacturing perspective, that's less than 1/20th the wavelength of visible light.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 08:54:54 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 27, 2013, 12:44:15 amDamn 5nm, that crazy.And i mean like batshit insane kinda crazy.

author: tealsuki
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 03:51:23 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 27, 2013, 08:02:04 amAccording to Wikipedia, ultraviolet light stops at about 10nm, so does that mean they'll start using x-rays for the photolithography process (*for intel's proposed 5nm ticktock)? This is going to be another 4 hours of my life I'm sacrificing to Wiki, I just know it.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 04:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: tealsuki on November 27, 2013, 03:51:23 pmExactly. I somewhat doubt that the manufacturing yields at this level are going to be very good.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 05:47:03 pm
content: 18 nanometer is already a running process. intel has pilot lines at 14UV is still used. they use diffraction lithography

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 08:36:24 pm
content: Altera Stratix 10 parts are mapped out on Intel's 14nm trifet process. The V series parts are 28nm. The IV series before it was 65nm.However in each case the Stratix (being the flagship) usually gets made on slightly more advanced processes its contemporaries

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 09:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on November 27, 2013, 05:47:03 pmApparently they are having problems at 14nm...http://www.extremetech.com/computing/171477-intels-14nm-milkshake-its-better-than-yours

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2013, 10:14:25 pm
content: They may figure a way to use this for mas production, something like a complex magnetic mask perhaps

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 06:57:03 am
content: surely down at the 5nm mark you start playing scissors paper rock with electrons though?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 12:02:13 pm
content: xxnm doesn't mean anything no more!Some years ago, yes, the node name was very descriptive about the geometry of the silicon features. Nowadays, there is no single feature or more appropriately design rule that can be measured down toxxnm.I findthis articlevery interesting.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2013, 05:26:56 pm
content: I find this extremely fascinating, but in a black magic wizardry oh my god I don't know anything kind of way.I would of thought electrons would be jumping in and out of the "parts" at that scale! But like I said, I know next to nothing.

author: Kryoclasm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2013, 04:41:31 am
content: At that size, the electrons will start to fall out of the circuit, not to mention teleport to different locations within it bypassing important bits, no pun intended.

author: Agony
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2013, 01:18:26 pm
content: The electrons start to mess things up so you need massive redundancy.You cant avoid electron leakign inbetween layers.Thats the limit. Silicon dioxide cant act as an insulator at that scale anymore. Perhaps they are looking for other materials instead - thats if they can effectively use them in the manufacturing proccess.