Your choice for <$3 FPGA/CPLD with >50 IO, >200 LUT4? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ZaneKaminski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 05:43:34 pm
content: For very-low-cost bus interfacing, I often need a CPLD with 150-250 LUT4s and 40-70 I/O. What are everyone's recommendations?There are the usual suspects: Altera MAX II and MAX V and Lattice MachXO.Prices on MAX II and V have been gone up in the past five years, I think. Why the price increase? Is it the Intel acquisition? Do we think these parts will be discontinued soon?As for MachXO, the MachXO256 is a great deal, only $2.50 at DigiKey last I checked. My favorite Chinese vendor, LCSC/JiaLiChuang, however, has declined to stock this part, whereas their prices on Altera MAX II/V are very good (~$2.50). The newer MachXO2 is more expensive for the 256 LUT4 part and so I would avoid it.Xilinx doesn't really have an answer to these cheap PLDs. What about the various Chinese PLD vendors? AGM has the AG256. Has anyone used this?Are there any other options I'm not considering?

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 09:44:59 pm
content: Maybe the ProASIC3 nano and IGLOO nano from Microchip/Microsemi/Actel would be of interest to you.GOWIN Semiconductor has some FPGAs in that price range also.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 10:13:10 pm
content: If you considered Lattice, and want cheap, I would suggest looking at the ice40 series (for instance the iCE40LP.)

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2020, 10:36:38 pm
content: IGLO nano smallest AGLN010 - price 10.15USB 1pcs, 4.23USD 100pcs (Arrow)PROASIC3 nano smallest A3PN010 - price 4.80USD 1pcs, 2.03USD 100pcs (Arrow)GOWIN Semiconductor - hard to buy (I tried to buy samples of GW1NS-2C: proposed delivery date 2 months, )

author: ZaneKaminski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 05:48:53 am
content: ProASIC3, IGLOO nano, and iCE40 are all good, but the $2-3 ones just can't compete on I/O capacity with the Altera MAX II 240 and its 80 I/O in TQFP-100.I requested a quote on a GOWIN part (GW1NR series) a while ago for a project that needed a smallish PLD and some SDRAM. The GW1NR series looked good since it integrates a 64Mbit SDRAM in the same package. Unfortunately for GOWIN it was just cheaper to go with the Altera MAX II and a separate SDRAM chip, so that's what I did.I tried out the AGM software today, after much difficulty making a Baidu account in order to download it. After using the software, I see why AGM is not marketing their FPGAs in the US. In order to compile a design for the AG256, you must basically compile it for a Cyclone IV in Quartus, then the AGM software reads in the compiled netlist and fits it onto the much smaller AG256. (!) As promised by AGM, I was able to easily port a design from the Altera EPM240 to the AG256, but their synthesis approach is sketchy, to say the least. Nonetheless I ordered 10 AG256s and am excited to try them out in an existing design. Of particular interest to me are the current consumption and switching characteristics of the AGM chip in comparison to the Altera EPM240 and Lattice MachXO256.

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 10:14:43 am
content: Where did you buy AG256s?At LCSC they are out of stock.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 07:13:15 pm
content: Depending on how fast IO you need, you may be better off with one of the really cheap ass FPGAs ( such as these:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/ICE40UL1K-SWG16ITR50/220-1960-2-ND/5129489https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/ICE40UL640-CM36AITR/ICE40UL640-CM36AITR-ND/5130901) and IO expanders? The fast IO goes directly to the FPGA, and the slower goes onto a shit register?

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 09:08:35 pm
content: This one is quite a cheap, and a little powerfulhttps://www.gowinsemi.com/en/product/detail/2/Device GW1NZ-1LUT4 1,152Flip-Flop (FF) 864Shadow SRAM S-SRAM (bits)4KBlock SRAM B-SRAM (bits)72KPLLs 1User Flash (bits) 64KMax. User I/O on die 48VCC 1.2V(LV) / 0.9V(ZV)

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2020, 09:46:28 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 04, 2020, 09:08:35 pmWhat is price for 1, 100, 1000pcsCould you indicate a distributor who has them in stock?

author: ZaneKaminski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2020, 09:24:55 am
content: LCSC said in an email that they could get AG256s, but then when I placed the order, they cancelled it... Anyway, I asked around on eBay and was able to find a few sellers that offer the part. Try chips-gate if you're interested.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 12:30:20 am
content: " What is price for 1, 100, 1000pcs Could you indicate a distributor who has them in stock "Ask the right peoplehttps://www.gowinsemi.com/en/about/distributor/For development and testhttps://www.aliexpress.com/af/-tang-fpga.html?d=y&origin=n&SearchText=+tang+fpga&catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20200605162955

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2020, 04:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 06, 2020, 12:30:20 amYou wrote that "This one is quite a cheap" so I thought you could use them and know the prices.European distributor doesn't have any chips in stock.Samples avaliable with a delivery date of 2 months with an unattractive price (GW1NS-2C TQFP144 - 6EUR/pcs).Gowin development board is expensive (170EUR)I think GOWIN FPGA are worth interest but without a good distribution they won't win the market of smaller companies.I'm in touch with a Gowin FAE and European distributorLatice, Xilinx,Altera chips we can buy without problems on Digi-Key, Mouser, Arrow etc.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2020, 08:30:20 pm
content: " European distributor"Are you kidding, who will make anything in Europe.China is where those things must be made, Europe is deathMake the prototype in Europe, and contract a batch building in china or other Asian countries, Otherwise, you will be not commercially viable

author: up8051
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2020, 08:44:16 pm
content: Maybe Europe is dead, but I alive and live and work in Europe.

author: ZaneKaminski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2020, 10:09:16 pm
content: I’m in Columbus, Ohio, in the US, and I was able to get a quote on the Gowin GW1NR from a small distributor only about 50 miles away in Dayton, which is sort of a hub for aerospace and electrical engineering. The distributor is Edge Electronics and their price was okay, but like I said, I went with the MAX II and separate SDRAM because it was cheaper.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 03:32:45 am
content: Quote from: ZaneKaminski on June 03, 2020, 05:43:34 pmThe bottom of the line Xilinx XC9500XL family are $1 each, single quantity. The larger devices are $2-5. Their architecture is quite different fromtypical FPGAs, they use 36-input gates. For certain applications, this architecture is excellent, such as wide bus address decoders. For some otherapplications, they don't fit as well as the LUT internal architecture. But, I don't know anything that can match the price. They are single supplyand non-volatile.Xilinx also has the CoolRunner II, with a more typical LUT architecture, but optimized for small requirements. These are also just a few $ each,but do need dual power supplies. Also, non-volatile.Jon

author: 1847123212
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 05:04:33 am
content: I came from china, if u really need the chips, and u can order a batch. I can ask the seller.thus AGM256 is an fake cpld, it locks like an fpga bonding a flash in one die.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2020, 08:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on June 08, 2020, 03:32:45 amCoolRunner II is not a LUT architecture. It's a PLA like any other CPLD.

author: ZaneKaminski
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2020, 02:28:12 am
content: The Xilinx XC9500 is good for very small applications, but once you get up to 144 macrocell devices in TQFP-100, the price and power consumption is a bit too high. Same with the now-discontinued Altera EPM3128.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 02:12:23 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on June 08, 2020, 08:37:45 pmWow, you are right! Everything I remember is just wrong --- ugh, must be getting old!Jon

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2020, 08:21:31 am
content: Altera's replacement for the EPM3128 is the EPM7128, but still, no longer in production.Here, the TQFP100 = 91cents USD each, over 2K parts available.https://www.questcomp.com/part/4/epm7128atc100-7f/180963346?utm_term=epm7128atc100-7f&utm_campaign=aktype0&utm_medium=industry-cpc&utm_source=findchips&utm_content=standardpricingHow about these guys: (I am not sure why quantity pricing isn't shown, but maybe you can get a quote for $2.50 @25-100 or more pcx. You just need to email you digikey in purchasing)https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/intel/5M160ZE64C5N/544-2804-ND/2660744https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/intel/5M160ZT100C5N/544-2719-ND/2499442This would be my Lattice part at below 1.87$: (Seen as cheap as $1.62 for 286pcx at Quest Components)https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/lattice-semiconductor-corporation/LAMXO256C-3TN100E/220-1637-ND/2731595