Is there any knock off 2 in 1 solder/reflow station that is NOT a fire hazard? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sparkyresistor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 05:25:04 pm
content: So basically I am in this dillema.. I want to get a good soldering station, and I want to pick up a reflow station, or a 2 in 1 for under $110us. I have researched like crazy and this is basically what I have found:*This is free shipping on everything so no worries about that*Obviously this is the best choice, but also the most expensive:Hakko 888D *Includes side cutters* - free shipping - $91.34YIHUA 858D Desoldering Rework Station(free xtra heating element) - $54.99 (Fire hazard but cheap and easier to make safer than the 2 or 3 in 1 units)Total of $146.33Problem: Too ExpensiveAoyue 906 Hot Air Soldering Rework - $129.93Total of $129.93Problem: Fire Hazard and too expensive (might as well go with the top option if I go this route.)853D 3 in 1 station. - $109.95Total of $109.95Problem: Fire HazardKendal 2 IN 1 852D++ - $95.99Total of $95.99Problem: Fire HazardKendal 2 In 1 898D+ - $81.99Total of $81.99Problem: Fire HazardWEP 852D+ 2in1 - $79.99Total of $79.99Problem: Fire HazardSo basically, I know I am asking for too much, and one or two components to swap or replace isn't a deal breaker for me, but I was wondering if there was a type of kit like this that CONSISTENTLY has specific issues that need to be replaced and be done with it by just that, or if I am just wasting my time and I should just get the Hakko?Most of these units generally have one specific issue in common (the shoddy triacs without thermal grease or lack of a heat sink at all), which is all fine and good, but then it also seems with most of these knock offs there are problems at random that are unique to each station regardless if it's the same model or brand.I wouldn't even worry about it THAT much if it weren't for me having a son and a home.. Meh.. I guess I can include the wife in thereI am not a professional by any means, and I am really wanting to get into advanced soldering and hot air work (well advanced coming from Radio Shack crap $12 dual voltage soldering irons), so I don't need something that is going to be uber dependable 30 years from now being used 8+ hrs per day, but something that I just know I could look over and fix a small issue here and there and not worry about it burning my house down if I leave it plugged in on accident (even with the power off).I was wanting to go below $110, mainly because anything over that, I might as well buy the Hakko and Cheap hot air station and be done with it (which is still on the table but I am miserly and well.. you know the old saying).If I were more technically advanced in analog circuitry, I would feel very comfortable just buying the cheapest knock off and reworking everything myself. The bad thing is, it's not about putting more money into the cheapy that I would have paid less for, just that I am not advanced enough to notice something like a safety switch is hard tied to ground so it wont trip, or a capacitor is soldered backwards on the board.

author: AKM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 05:39:38 pm
content: +1 vote Hakko 888D & YIHUA 858D.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 05:52:07 pm
content: If you want to save some money buy the cheap hakko clones. there are a few of them it would appear.The problem is you need to buy the original hakko iron. the reason why is because the cord will be silicon, and a foot or two longer.Also, the cheap soldering iron tips (the ones that cost 60 cents each) don't have any copper in them so they are basically unusable.with a genuine copper cored hakko tip, ground down to a stub(was used well past its normal life), extending only 6mm from the stainless steel sleeve, i was able to solder 4x 10 awg wires together no problem.with these cheap tips:http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-Solder-Screwdriver-Iron-Tip-900M-T-for-Hakko-Soldering-Rework-Station-Tool/231237223108you'll be using the biggest one just to solder two 16awg wires together.

author: sparkyresistor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 07:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on May 23, 2014, 05:52:07 pmAny specific knock offs you could recommend? The only ones I found, I were not even sure if they were knock offs or just cheap solder stations, and a lot of them were roughly $50 to $60, so by the time I would buy the iron and tips, it's the same price as the Hakko.If I could get my hands a hold of that $16 one from hobby king that would be awesome, but that's a shot in hell's chance of getting it in stock.I am definitely open to suggestions on cheap soldering station only knock offs as long as they are pretty good, but at this point I am really starting to lean toward just buying the real deal and either picking up a hot air station as well, or waiting until later for the station.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 07:49:29 pm
content: Where are you located?If you go into your user profile, and set your country, your nation's flag will be displayed under your user ID in each post. Makes things a lot easier for members to give more specific advice, particularly regarding where to get things from and prices.That said, if you're in the US, don't muck about with a knock-off or clone station. Genuine Hakko FX-888D's can be had for under a $100USD, and as you stated, the clones with a genuine Hakko handle aren't noticeably cheaper, if at all.There's also an advantage to having separate units, which is that you can use one to repair the other if/when it breaks.Not as feasible with 2in1 units (don't want to solder on anything live).Also, as others have stated, get genuine Hakko tips (easiest way is to get them from a distributor to avoid fakes, as there's a lot of them on places like eBay). As a general rule, spend the money on quality supplies, whether it be tips, solder, flux, or wick. You'll thank yourself later due to avoiding the aggravation of using garbage (scorch PCBs & parts, lift traces, .. sorts of things.).

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 08:48:40 pm
content: The difference between fire hazard and not fire hazard is at least $16.40???Really???

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 08:52:25 pm
content: How did you determine all those models were fire hazards? I Googled the 898D+ (which I own) and "fire hazard" and only found two relevant results, this post and an Amazon review. I'd like to know because if it has a real problem I'll toss it. I've been using it off and on for a couple of years and it hasn't burst into flames yet.

author: sparkyresistor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 09:00:36 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 23, 2014, 07:49:29 pmThanks for the heads up! Notes and done. I'm in the US. Yeah, you helped me out man. I'mma go with the Hakko. Might as well get quality. I may not have the money for the hot air station at the moment, but it was never really a have toWouldn't take much longer to pick one up later anyway.Quote from: Skimask on May 23, 2014, 08:48:40 pmSeems to be.. But I mean if you look at it that you get a whole slew of cheap crap that may or may not burn up for $16.40 difference to something that will last and well... Not burn your flat down.. Yeah.Quote from: rdl on May 23, 2014, 08:52:25 pmWell, the 898D+.. Well actually every single one of these hot air systems (including daves I believe) have the dual TRIAC issue where they do not have heatsinks.Also, the 898D has the exact same issues as the rest. Out of nowhere the hot air gun turns on without the fan running even with the power button in the off position, and if your lucky, the element get's too hot and pops before it can do any REAL damage. Now that may or may NOT happen. It depends on what happens to the TRIAC when it get's to the point of failure. It may just not work at all after a while, it may turn on by itself, or it may only run at full temp when you turn it on.That's actually the reason why I have been researching all these different models to find one that doesn't have this specific issue, and kicking around here, I found out about all the other issues with the position of the fuse, swapped Neutral/Hot mains wiring, and other things.Here's a video of a guy explaining and showing the issue (And this happened to him)If you have this one and you haven't gave it a good look inside I would definitely recommend you do so and fix that as soon as you can.It seems to be a common problem, because I believe they are using the same controller board from the same factory for all these hot air gun units.Even the 858 that I want to buy separate with the Hakko (same one Dave has but different brand) has the same issue and the same board, however since it's a more simple unit it would be much easier for me to pinpoint any safety issues with it (maybe I should put fire hazard beside that one too).

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 09:39:43 pm
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAKKO-936-Soldering-Iron-Station-Controller-DIY-for-907-Iron-A1321-Heating-core-/400569501356http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SOURCE-1-CLASS-2-GEN-PURPOSE-TRANSFORMER-120-208-240V-IN-24V-OUT-40VA/171208327357http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-50W-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-HAKKO-907-ESD-907-936-937-928-926-IND008-/32140669551138$ totalmuch less if you can find your own 24vac supply.

author: sparkyresistor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 09:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on May 23, 2014, 09:39:43 pmWow! Thank you! I may very well go this route, but it's a chicken and egg issue... I don't have a soldering iron decent enough to work it (trust me, the one I have is trash bound). I'd have to go grab a crapper iron to do it. Great idea though! If I ever am in need of a second iron I may go this route.Also on the hot air station Dave has (858D), I forgot that the hot air only stations do NOT have the same controller board. They are configured pretty much the same way, however I have generally noticed that the hot TRIAC is properly cooled, however there is a second triac (doesn't get hot generally.. Unless there is a bodge somewhere else), and I would go ahead just for shits and put a heatsink and compound on that one too. They still have issues, but not nearly as many I believe as the all in ones.***I detract that statement about the 858D not being dangerous***https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 10:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: sparkyresistor on May 23, 2014, 09:00:36 pmExactly. Despite any urge, you'll find that having a hot air station isn't a critical piece of gear, and in the particular case of the 858, it shouldn't take long to save up for one anyway.Personally, I'd recommend saving up for a decent used one instead, but even this is still quite a bit more expensive (i.e. ~$55 for the 858 vs. ~$250 - 300 for a name brand used unit <example>).Quote from: sparkyresistor on May 23, 2014, 09:00:36 pmSeems there's really only a few factories pumping these things out, and the QC is all over the place. Some have faults, others don't, and of course, they're built to a minimal price first and foremost, so it shouldn't be a surprise IMHO there are issues. If you go ahead and get one, you should pop it open before ever turning it on, and sorting anything that's obvious.Or save up for a better unit, new or used (basic new will run $600 BTW <example> using the EEVBlog discount code for another 6% off). Used can be had for about half that, but it's still a sizable chunk of cash for hobbyists IMHO. So the Chinese imports tend to reign the hot air market for hobbyists at least.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 10:12:42 pm
content: I know right, all these cheap soldering equipment burning down houses, every other day I read the headlines in the newspapers, "electronics geek loses house to chinese soldering station - 'i was just sitting there and whoosh it erupted'"PS: What year did you graduate from the University Of FUD?Sent from my HTC Dream using Tapatalk 2

author: sparkyresistor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 10:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 23, 2014, 10:10:22 pmWow.. Actually that's amazing to see even a used Hakko hot air for that price. I didn't see those and the lowest possible price on anything quality I saw was $600+ :XI'm going to go with the 1hunglo model for the hot air, but at least I'll know what to look for and can easily rectify the issues. But I will definitely think about the used ones once I get more time under my belt on the cheapo.Quote from: nanofrog on May 23, 2014, 10:10:22 pmYeah, it's just not too worth it to me. Even for a hobby I may use it at most once or twice a week. Mainly for salvaging parts, or the occasional cool idea.Quote from: sleemanj on May 23, 2014, 10:12:42 pmI know it's crazy right? Lasers and hot air tanks and sharks and shit. lol.I'm not implying they are all crap, I just wanted to find something that OTB was not a fire hazard.PS: Same year you did.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2014, 10:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: sparkyresistor on May 23, 2014, 10:36:16 pmMight find heat shrink is the primary reason for firing it up, especially if you're doing mostly PTH parts.

author: pbgben
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 03:38:05 am
content: I have a Yihua 8786D station, and its been good for me so farhttp://imgur.com/a/5XYiR(Start from the bottom, Images are in the wrong order)

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2014, 03:42:54 am
content: Quote from: sparkyresistor on May 23, 2014, 09:00:36 pmAnd how exactly does that happen, with the power turned off?

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2014, 03:36:59 pm
content: For ~USD 230 you can buy a QUICK 712.http://www.quick-global.com/2-rework-system-3.html

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 11:40:52 am
content: It has, like a lot of current electronic products a power switch NOT on the active mains lead, it has safety issues, but my tv, ppvr, dvd player and PC ALL are exactly the same. I suspect the level of testing of the MTTF of the critical components in some of these products leave a lot to be desired.I am happy to keep using mine (infrequently) but like most of my gear i don't leave it plugged in and have a whole lab kill switch, switching off everything as I leave.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 12:40:08 pm
content: Well the HAKKO FR-803B uses a key:Teardown:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hot-air-guns-with-profile!/msg477043/#msg477043

author: mngiggle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 01:59:11 pm
content: Anybody have thoughts on Sparkfun's knockoff hot air station?https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10706I've used it in a work setting and it worked well, but I've never opened any of the knockoffs (or non-knockoffs) I've used to see how they're built, so I have no reference for comparison. The Sparkfun page has a couple of pictures of the innards...[Edited to note that it's not a 2-in-1 station.]

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 11:17:11 pm
content: That appears to be a rebranded Atten AT852D (or AT850+ if the label on the transformer is to be believed - which may or may not be a virtually identical model/series), which Sparkfun are selling with 200% markup:http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Atten-AT852D-Antistatic-digital-Hot-air_551580179.htmlhttp://www.dhgate.com/product/220v-atten-at852d-smd-rework-station-desoldering/142910857.htmlThere's a pushbutton next to the MCU, I wonder what it does...

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 11:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 14, 2014, 03:42:54 amTo prolong the element life there is a cool-down procedure the causes the fan to remain on until a certain temp is reached. So technically the unit is not off unless you turn off the power switch on the back of the unit. It's OK to do this but make sure the cool-down procedure has completed.As for a station, have a look at this ebay store. I had good luck purchasing 2 stations from him the first one was about 2 years ago. He is in Canada but I think he has a US store as well.http://stores.ebay.ca/EPROM-Programmer/GQ-SMD-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-/_i.html?_fsub=151231119&_sid=101150119&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322- Regardless of where you get the station from (used included) just pop the cover off and have a look.- If you worried about burning your house down unplug the entire bench when not in use.- Make sure you have a fire extinguisher that is as important as multimeter!- Don't leave your bench unattended.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2014, 11:53:15 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on July 17, 2014, 11:49:57 pmThis I know.QuoteSo the clunky relatively expensive AC switch on the front panel isn't actually connected to the supply? That was the actual question, quite amazed I had to spell it out.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 12:42:31 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 17, 2014, 11:53:15 pmNot really expensive prices range from under 10 cents up to a buck or so if you need a light or center off. Massive variety on the Chinese market. Who knows what kind of price you get in quantities of 1000.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10x-AC-6A-250V-10A-125V-3-Pin-Terminal-Snap-in-On-Off-Boat-Rocker-Switch-Black-/131035156955?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e824dd1dbhttp://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-x-AC-6A-250V-10A-125V-6P-DPDT-O-F-O-On-Off-On-Button-Boat-Rocker-Switch-/230914408881?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c39241b1I like the round ones best for simulators and such easy install.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-x-Round-Rocker-Toggle-Power-Switch-Waveform-Switches-AC125V-10A-AC250V-5A-/331092531463?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d16a71907

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 12:48:57 am
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on July 18, 2014, 12:42:31 am....

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 12:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 17, 2014, 11:53:15 pmSomeone RE'd the mains-side schematic for the 852D and posted it in the Sparkfun comments linked above:The mains switch is a DPST, one pole for the heater and the other for the pump and controller. There's a triac across the pump/controller pole so the controller can keep the pump and itself powered when the unit is switched off so it can run the pump to cool down. Then it can turn itself off and stay off. Even if the triac shorts out only the pump and controller will be powered, the heater is positively disconnected with the switch off. Rather clever design.I haven't seen any schematic for the 858D/898D but it does appear that they have "soft" power switches and rely only on the triacs to control the heater.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 02:29:52 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on July 18, 2014, 12:48:09 pmUnfortunate.Also, whoever drew that schematic needs a swift punch to the face, assuming the real thing isn't wired that way.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2014, 08:46:29 pm
content: Why not just buy a decent Pace/ERSA/Metcal station and not worry.Hakko irons are nothing special, and the rip offs are pretty much pointless - may as well buy a Weller if you want average performance.