220v UK plug that came with my new Plasma Cutter. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 02:20:29 pm
content: So, Since I live in Norway, I had to change the plug... We use a two prong style connector with earth pins on the sides...Usually, I take out the fuses of these things and keep them for other things.. I figured I'd do the same for this Plasma Cutter..It can do 60 amps DC for cutting up to 18mm steel, so it requires a 15 amp 220v circuit minimum..Imagine my surprise when I opened the fuse door, and found, what appears to be a 1mm thick copper pin across the fuse holder... lol The door/fuse holder was hot snotted to the socket.. lol

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 03:39:17 pm
content: Wow!Please tell me it wasn't sold to you brand new like that (especially by a UK vendor), and is just some previous owner's bodge job when they got tired of blowing fuses all the time.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 03:56:12 pm
content: Holy crap, that's bad...A 1mm diameter wire will act as a fuse at around 80A...

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 06:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: ThickPhilM on March 20, 2020, 03:56:12 pmThe solder will probably melt first, causing arcing and lots of magic smoke from the surrounding plastic.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 06:34:35 pm
content: Where on earth did you get that thing from?

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 07:25:01 pm
content: That's really bad.Did you buy this from the UK? Or did it come from China direct to Norway?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:09:36 pm
content: https://www.ebay.com/itm/274126398907^^ Claimed to be UK warehouse, but it was shipped from the Netherlands.Took less than 1 week to arrive, in these corona times... That's Impressive.Yes, I bought it brand new. And yes, it came with the plug, like that, even though it says in the description "Comes without a plug because of different countries" or something to that nature.I sent the seller a message about it including the picture..It works great however, no issues there. I did check that the earth pin had connectivity both to the plug and to the chassis.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:10:30 pm
content: Dodgy import.. Burn it.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 20, 2020, 09:21:35 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 20, 2020, 09:10:30 pmLol.. I have watched alot of reviews of this machine, and it's actually a decent machine.Price can't be beat.And it does cut fairly well to, I spent a good hour testing it today, and I am very happy with it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 01:30:40 am
content: At least the earth pin has not been sleeved...

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:21:35 am
content: Does the machine have an internal fuse? Most countries don’t have a fused plug.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 04:22:54 am
content: It worked in China when they packed it...What’s your problem?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 01:33:45 pm
content: Most industrial machines do not have/come with an internal fuse in Norway.It's less important than in the UK where they usually have just one ginormous circuit breaker for the whole house, then rely on each appliance to have it's own fuse in the socket/appliance.While we use the term 220v, we actually mean/have 230v 50hz in Norway now. We normally don't use the term Line/Neutral as both conductors have the same potential in our most common net-standard IT-net (Roughly 90% of Norway) The rest of Europe uses the TN-net standard, and we are starting to do it for most new houses as well.In Norway, we usually have a main breaker in the fuse-box of 63 amps, then we have separate individual circuits for most rooms, These have their own breakers, usually between 10 and 16 amps.So in theory, the absolute max allowable load in a regular house, on a regular 1 phase socket, is 3680w, or 230v X 16 amps <- what most people have available.The biggest "regular" 1 phase 230v circuit you get is 16 amps- slow blow.I also have a three phase, 16 amp circuit in my house.There are special utility sockets for things like electric cooking stoves, they usually run 20-25a fuses.There are also special 230v single phase sockets for high load stuff, such as outlets for caravans, but they are not common.You can find 32 amp 3 phase 230v in some homes.Unlike the UK and US, where 50+ amp circuits for 230v is common such sockets are not common here, we mainly use 400v in stead for commercial, that being said, up to 63 amp 220v single/three phase sockets in agricultural and commercial application is available but not common.All new houses made from about 2010 onward should have 400v, capability at the very least with the infrastructure up to the house ready made.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 21, 2020, 01:33:45 pmIn the UK it's 230v (reduced from 240V about 20 years ago) 50Hz. Normal practice is to have multiple ring mains each protected by a breaker not exceeding 30A, plus a small number of dedicated circuits for things like electric cookers. Plugs have fuses of various ratings, up to 13A maximum.Live is supply potential, neutral is normally bonded to ground outside the property but can be expected to wander by a few volts.My guess is that somebody found that they couldn't test the cutter wired to a UK-style plug on a 110V circuit because it needed more than 13A, even though it wouldn't have on a 230V circuit. Hence the copper nail.I'd suggest sending a copy of that photo to whoever oversees electrical safety in your jurisdiction (in the UK I believe it's Trading Standards) since they'd probably be interested that a European supplier is shipping that sort of thing into the country.MarkMLl

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:21:31 pm
content: Quote from: MarkMLl on March 21, 2020, 02:04:01 pmMakes alot more sense now.These machines are dual voltagebtw (Strike that, this machine is 220v Only, the dual voltage version is only up to Cut 50 This is Cut 60),so it should run fine on 110v,though as you say at a much higher amperage.I normally measure 230v between each conductor, and about 115-130v between each conductor and ground. That's the IT net standard. In other words, on the IT net standard, each conductor carry 115v (+- the tolerances ofc), 180 degrees out of phase with the other, combined for a total of 230v AC, meaning they have 115v potential vs earth/ground.. So if you short 1 phase to ground, it is not as big of a bang as it would be in the UKJust so we are clear, I am not an electrician nor do I have any education in the subject beyond automotive/heavy machine repair stuff and some basics during basic mechanics class.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:37:59 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 21, 2020, 02:21:31 pmIt's also worth mentioning that in the UK there's strict prohibition on having a mains outlet in a bathroom because of the high live-ground voltage, unless it's a "shaver socket" protected by an internal transformer (i.e. floats relative to ground, on the assumption that the water supply is at ground potential.QuoteThee and me both for the record. However it is regrettable that a lot of "perfessional electricians" either flout or are woefully ignorant of the regulations, leading to things like kettle sockets immediately next to a sink (the rule always used to be that it was impossible to both hold a plugged-in kettle and touch the tap at the same time, but I guess that's a bit too much trouble for the average householder).MarkMLl

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 02:57:41 pm
content: Quote from: MarkMLl on March 21, 2020, 02:37:59 pmThere is no regulation prohibiting a socket next to a kitchen sink - actually, I don't think there's even any guidance on distance. There's no reason a tap and a kettle should have any potential between them, so.. As for bathrooms, they are allowed - with a very specific restriction of being 3m from the edge of 'zone 1' - which in practical terms requires a bathroom the size of some houses.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 03:00:18 pm
content: It's very strict in Norway too. I for example have an extraction fan inside my shower... due to regulations, it's 12v, with a transformer mounted WAY off in the distance...I think all sockets in Bathrooms has to be grounded as a minimum. And there are rules as to how close to a water source they can be fitted. I also think new houses are required to have a Ground Fault breaker on wet rooms. We normally have a ground fault indicator built into the fuse box, It will beep if there is a ground fault in your house.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:25:31 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 21, 2020, 02:57:41 pmThere is guidance on distance. I don't have my 18th Edition On Site Guide here at home (it's on site...) but it's either 150mm or 300mm.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:38:52 pm
content: Quote from: MarkMLl on March 21, 2020, 02:04:01 pmI don't know why this keeps cropping up. If you get your multimeter and measure your mains voltage, I think it is likely to be 240 V or even more in some places.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 21, 2020, 01:33:45 pmInteresting, so it sounds like it's very similar to the arrangement we have here in the US where homes are typically fed by a 240V transformer with a grounded center tap? Out here most small devices use 120V fed from one side to neutral though, 240V is usually only used for large appliances. Kitchen ovens/cooktops, electric clothes dryers, electric resistance heat where it is used, that stuff is all 240V. Many people also have a 240V socket installed in the garage or workshop for large tools like air compressors and welders.I was not aware that anywhere outside of North America used the center tapped transformer arrangement.While the bridged fuse in the plug certainly looks sketchy, it's not all that scary to me given none of our plugs have fuses in them to begin with.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:51:49 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 21, 2020, 05:38:52 pmI can't remember ever measuring the UK mains as less than about 245V. Its usually about 250V, although its seldom much more. I just measured a socket here at 247V.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 05:53:18 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on March 21, 2020, 05:25:31 pmFair enough, just a bit of splash protection, basically. It's not required to keep electricity six miles from the sink, at any rate.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 06:10:08 pm
content: The reason for the nominal 230V being measured at 240-250V in the UK is simple; it's a fudge.The original UK standard was 240V +- 5% iirc.The EU standard of 230V has had it's tolerance stretched to +10% -6% to accommodate the UK, due to the cost of replacing 240V equipment being deemed too high.Therefore UK mains voltage can be as high as 253V, close to the old 252V maximum.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 07:36:23 pm
content: The maximum voltage I have ever had in my sockets is 255v, it caused my UPS to turn on battery mode... It happened for about 10 minutes straight after a power outage.I like 1 feature of the UPS because I can view the supply voltage as a graph, going back abit.. It usually hovers between 230 and 240v. Right now, it's at 232v.I would report it to trading standards if I lived in the UK. Unfortunately Norwegian consumer protection agency's can't do much about a UK ebay seller.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 07:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on March 21, 2020, 05:25:31 pmI suspect it was longer in the days of metal kettles and those chunky (Swan?) connectors without shutters.When I worked at Lowbrow Uni the lecturer next door used to appear as an expert witness at inquests etc. and used to regale with stories of what had gone wrong- and the number of people killed by it. He'd also got a thought-provoking habit of pointing to new installations and describing at length why although they were in strict compliance with the regs (this must have been the 14th or 15th edn.) there were still unfortunate failure modes.(Somewhat later:) The Keysight banner ads appearing on this site, and the extant video on making a Nixie with their logo etc., remind me of another of that lecturers's stories. Apparently some VIP was due to tour the Plessey lab where he worked, and he was tasked with generating the Plessey logohttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/Plesseylogo.jpgto appear on a 'scope. It turned out to be deceptively difficult...And to put that in context, not only was it /way/ before Arduinos etc. but he'd worked on the earliest UK computers at Manchester, where he'd produced a two kiloword memory module. It was greeted with "Two kilowords? Two *kilo*words? That's more than a man can keep track of!".I presume he knew Turing. I don't think he was at Bletchley Park. That's about all I can say.MarkMLl

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 08:04:39 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on March 21, 2020, 05:38:52 pmIt crops up because of people who don't appreciate that any complex system- particularly a complex /analogue/ system- has nominal parameters to which the controllers aspire even if in practice most points on the network deviate to a greater or lesser extent.And I'm afraid that prurient curiosity isn't sufficient incentive for me to take a common-or-garden multimeter anywhere near mains potential.MarkMLl

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2020, 11:16:21 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on March 21, 2020, 05:51:49 pmMy friend in Manchester built a power monitor and logged his line voltage for several weeks, I don't recall the exact numbers but he remarked it was all over the place and it seems like it varied from about 236V-252V over the course of the day. Makes me wonder if he's near the end of the run, he's looked for the transformer that feeds his house but hasn't found it. The voltage at my house is pretty constant, varying only +/-2V or so looking at 240V across the two lives. My distribution transformer is only about 30 feet from the house though in a little cabinet at the edge of the greenbelt, I think it supplies 6 houses.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 02:56:59 am
content: Quote from: MarkMLl on March 21, 2020, 08:04:39 pmAnybody who ever repaired Mains operated Electronics for a living would have measured Mains voltage many times at the input of power transformers & switchmode supplies integral to that equipment.OK, you can check most of the Mains input circuitry unplugged with the Ohms range, but plenty of times it is easier to just check for the presence of Mains with a multimeter on ac volts.Basically if the thing can't withstand 250v rms on one of the higher ac ranges, it's not a "multimeter's bootlace"!Or if the operatot can't remember to set the right scale, I'm amazed that they made their way to work this morning without getting lost.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 08:07:21 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 22, 2020, 02:56:59 amOh definitely. And the switchmode supplies I've worked on needed two men to move: preferably three, and a forklift was preferred.But opening something up and sticking probes on the mains is still something I don't do casually, particularly if I'm not 100% confident in the provenance of the meter and probes.MarkMLl

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 12:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 20, 2020, 02:20:29 pmBack to the OP's topic: Are you sure you want to keep and use that thing? I would beveryconcerned that the rest of the plasma cutter is designed or assembled in a similar, reckless way. Personally, I would return it.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 01:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 22, 2020, 12:10:49 pmI am pretty sure the factory/assembly plant and whomever stuck the UK plug on it is not the same people, Like it says in the ad, over and over "does not come with a plug" I bet it's stuck on in the Netherlands warehouse, where they also do a final function check.This is actually a name-brand machine, PlasmArgon, I have seen multiple tear-downs/reviews, And the quality, although not premium by anyone's standard, is ok. It more than meets it's reliability/duty cycle requirements.https://www.plasmargon.com/product/icut60p/You can see it even says no plug on their website.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 07:58:31 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 22, 2020, 12:10:49 pmI'd open it up and have a look, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. I'm perfectly comfortable working with equipment that I would never set up for the average non-technical consumer to use. I mean it's a plasma cutter, it's dangerous under the best of circumstances, as long as the housing is earthed what's the worst that could happen? The thing self destructs and lets out the magic smoke? Maybe the mains cord heats up and smokes? It's not the sort of thing that's going to be left running unattended and no matter what happens to the cord the wiring in the wall is protected upstream.As I mentioned earlier, plugs here don't have fuses in the first place, it would be easily possible to overload a thin cord on an appliance to the point that it burns up but in practice that doesn't really end up being a problem. High current equipment doesn't come with thin flimsy cords, it's normally fused internally and if it isn't a catastrophic fault will still trip the upstream protection.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 08:32:32 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 22, 2020, 01:55:52 pmOK, that's a different story then; you hadn't mentioned the "no plug" disclaimer before.If the culprit is the importer in the Netherlands, report them.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2020, 10:11:53 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 22, 2020, 08:32:32 pmI did, in thefirstpost*Second

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:36:27 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 22, 2020, 08:32:32 pmI agree. The fact that the transaction was via eBay is irrelevant: somebody in Europe is shipping potentially-dangerous stuff to other countries in Europe, and that should be sorted before it involves the average clueless consumer.Does the plasma cutter have a CE sticker on it?MarkMLl

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 08:22:41 pm
content: I don't think a lot of "average clueless consumers" are going to be buying a plasma cutter. Isn't the cord on something like that capable of carrying the full current that could be supplied by the ringmain without burning up? I mean it's obviously not correct by any means but I'm not really seeing a massive safety hazard here. Outside of the UK most users are going to remove the plug and install one that has no fuse to bypass.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 09:22:36 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 23, 2020, 08:22:41 pmThe circuit may have a 32 A breaker, and the appliance cord is most likely rated for about half that. So a fault in the appliance could cause the power cord to overheat without a proper fuse in the plug.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 09:56:35 pm
content: I seriously doubt the conductors inside can carry much past 15A, It appeared to be mostly insulation, I'd say the conductor itself was between 1.5mm² and 2.0mm², perhaps 1.75mm².The lead was also somewhat longer than reported in the Reviews I've seen, they say 2' (foot), I think it was at least 1.5 meters, so about a half meter longer.On the bright side, It did feel like proper copper, not Copper Clad Aluminium, Nice and plyable, held it's shape. Thankfully not as I have seen in some leads, ferrous metals of sorts.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 09:58:51 pm
content: Quote from: SantaClaw on March 23, 2020, 09:56:35 pmBeing moulded it's extraordinarily unlikely to be in excess of 1.5mm².

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 10:12:46 pm
content: Hm yeah that could be marginal for sure, although there's also the fact that wires sized to be run through walls and whatnot account for very long runs, being buried in insulation, etc while a power cord is more like chassis wiring.It's obviously wrong, it's obviously sketchy, but I don't see this as something that is gonna cause scores of house fires or kill anybody. A plasma cutter is already dangerous, it's being used by people who generally know what they're doing, it's (hopefully) used in a space with concrete floors and away from flammable materials, it's going to be used intermittently and not left running unattended. I suspect the most common faults it might experience would result in a direct short that pops the breaker even if the cord is overloaded. I mean here we have all sorts of small appliances with light gauge cords on circuits fed by 20A breakers and you just don't hear about clock radios, TV sets and other small appliances failing such that they draw 20 amps and set the cord on fire. Fused plugs have never been a thing here, they're not really a bad idea but their absence doesn't seem to be a huge problem.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2020, 10:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on March 23, 2020, 10:12:46 pmPersonally, despite having concrete floors, and to some extent walls (about 1 meters up from the floor) in my garage, I prefer to do any cutting/welding outside whenever possible.Another factor to take into account, with a plasma cutter like this, it will rarely be used at maximum capacity, most stuff you would cut for a DYI project is going to be in the 1.5-5mm range, and not anywhere close to the full 18mm capability of the machine. Using a plasma cutter on higher than necessary current will only burn out the consumables and create unclean cuts.The same goes ofc for welders, you rarely weld at max current. During normal use I doubt I will go much beyond 40 Amps DC for cutting. The nice thing about having a 60 amp capable machine though, is that the duty cycle for 40A cutting, is alot higher than for, lets say a 50Amp machine.With most cutting/welding equipment, you have a rated duty cycle, now, for a low end welder, it can be ridiculously low, such as 20% on full amperage, this means, during 10 minutes, you can use the machine for two minutes, then it takes 8 to cool it down before you can continue.This machine is rated at 60% duty cycle at 60 amps, so it would be much greater at the 30-40 amp range you'd normally use it. But 6 full minutes of use at 60 amps is actually alot.My actual MIG welder, a Lincoln Electric Handy-Mig, has a rated duty cycle of 20% at 70Amps, It's an older machine (prolly 22 or so years old), and it's "outdated" technology wise. But It sure as heck gives you an appreciation of what a 20% duty cycle is... lol I was repairing a trailer this summer, and welding decently thick material.. I can promise you that 2 minutes is NOT a lot... when it takes 8 full minutes before you can continue welding...https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-gb/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K14000-1(LincolnElectric_EU_Base)

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 12:46:46 am
content: ..which is why sometimes it pays to have two decent affordable identical model welders on a cart or a knocked up DIY wheelie thingie,and alternate between welders every few minutes.i.e. one is cooling down while the other is being used and vice versa. Same settings, same consumables etc etcand any low Duty Cycle limitations won't hold you back on a high amperage bead fest= less thinking and bonus > you'll always have one working welder to finish the job, just in case one of the pair dies in the middle of itor to have a welder parked at both ends of a job to save on moving around, or if the leads aren't long enough

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 01:08:11 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 24, 2020, 12:46:46 amWell, yeah, but I can order and buy a 180 amp mig, that is 60% duty cycle at 180 amps, and 100% at 140 amps, 2x what my current one maxes out at, (70A 20% duty cycle no less), for less than 400$ delivered, with taxesAnd, I just did... lol It also weighs alot less, and is alot smaller, since it's IGBT and not transformer based. 6.5 kg vs 18kg!I paid 220 Euro, including express shipping lolBoth welders use a 16 amp fuse, so the efficiency is incredibly higher as well.https://shermaneurope.com/collections/mig-mag-welders/products/mig-180fl-sherman-inverter-welderhttps://youtu.be/K9SU2IS_DuoMade in ... Poland.... lol2020 - The technology for welders have come a long way in 22 years..

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 08:12:51 am
content: Whilst I agree 'affordable' welders have progressed in tech, as I have access to a mix of current and old school zappers to compare, and draw IMHO conclusions,but with ANY welder it really is about the quality and quantity of incoming street POWER going in to them,that's if you want consistent welds every time,without stuffing about with 'stick/electrode to work' amperages, MIG/MAG wire speeds etc etcas there's enough other variables and prep work to mess with, whensnotwelding steel and other metalsfwiw I'm still a sucker for obese unliftable AC welders (made wayyy before I was conceived) thatescaped the scrap yardgive that smooth sizzling vibe, and no arc blow bs,and hey, you can't beat the awesome 50s/60s retro vibeDC inverter welders can be nice/er too, if designed properly.But some are just landfill crap, designed to work well for a short while,then die in the assafter becoming intermittent

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 09:09:18 am
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on March 24, 2020, 08:12:51 amYou're thinking of the older rotary converters with flywheels? Theoretically that should be the equivalent of larger capacitance and a stable control scheme in an inverter.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 09:47:43 am
content: Quote from: james_s on March 23, 2020, 08:22:41 pmNo, but they're likely to be buying stuff from the same box-shifter who probably thinks there's nothing wrong with what he's done.MarkMLl

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 04:02:30 pm
content: I would think the clueless consumer would go for the even cheaper models..... Or one of the TERRIBLE all in one welder, they cost about the same as this plasma cutter...You can get an all in one machine, It can technically do everything, equally terribly... lolThese machines are all made in China, they cost next to nothing, they can do Mig, Mag, MMA(stick) TIG, Braizing, and Plasmacutting.They combine the worst of everything for something truly horrific.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2020, 11:17:27 pm
content: The 'affordable' name brands flogged here (CIG, Bossweld, Uni-Mig and others) 3 in 1 'Mig/Tig/Stick' or 'Plasma/Tig/Stick' sold at the box stores and weld/gas outlets are not too bad in the hands of someone with a cluethat know what Duty Cycle is, and not expecting continuous industrial grade performance,and don't abuse/neglect the machine.Their insides are tidy and secure with a local back to base 12 month? warranty. Keep out the dust, concrete floor falls, and idiot dropkicks, and they should last a whileThey are suitable for someone who can stick weld and or gasless MIG, that may want to try their hand at TIG and MIG with gas, and cut metal with the Plasma featureIt's the cheap ones with no name or silly names that do 3 in 1 and 4 in 1 etc that are a coin toss. When they fail you are screwed for warranty, schematics and parts > which may cost more than the welder etcI wouldn't touch those with a 10 foot electrode attached to a chicken stick = guaranteed waste of money for a ticking time fail,many dumped at pawn stores for peanuts, that end up in the pawn shops recycle dumpster once returned a few timesand a welder is one tool I don't want to go wrong on me,or fail just before the last bead on a job,because I was too cheap and or wanted a magic 3 in 1 'does it all'smartass buyerbargainNo thanks