Olo - resin 3D printing with a smartphone - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Robartes_m
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2016, 06:50:53 pm
content: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/olo3d/olo-the-first-ever-smartphone-3d-printerNot sure what to think about this one.On the one hand, it's got a few strikes against it:- the main introduction video shows a clear resin being used (towards the end of the video). Daylight curing polymers cannot be clear. To cure with visible light, a resin needs to absorb some of the visible light, and clear material does not do so, by definition.- the daylight curing resins are supplied in a (albeit cloudy) transparent bottle. That does not bode well for their shelf life- Most of the content on the kickstarter looks photoshopped / generated- If they have the money to produce a schmick (sp?) introductory video with (what seems to be) real actors, why not use it for producing an actual product?On the other hand, it would be cool if it is was real. 3D daylight curing resin printing does exist (though I think they need a lot more light than a cellphone screen can provide), and this might just be the gimmick to bring it to the masses.My verdict? I did not buy into the KickstarterWhat do you guys think?

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 08:46:20 am
content: I was really tempted to pledge the $79 reward because I often need small custom parts for prototyping.And I also have a few android phones and tablet that I rarely use laying around.But the whole campaign is so polished in the marketing aspect that I just don't trust them.I prefer presentations that were made by technical people...So I'll wait for the first users to get their printer (if they ever get it) and then decide.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 09:55:12 am
content: I think even if it works, the results are likely going to be crap. If it's so great, why are there only a couple examples while the rest their media material is 99% fluff? The cost for dev and testing should be minimal for that thing, they should havetonsof examples....they had necessary compensation for the fancy marketing and 'patents'...

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2016, 01:44:19 pm
content: Another negative side of this project is unresponsiveness of the OLO team.There are over 700 comments on Kickstarter and almost all contain questions.And OLO team only made a few replies replies with generic "Thank you for your questions... we will answer soon...".Some good questions:- What is the cost of OLO brand resins?- What other kinds of resins can be used?- Is there methods of removing unused resin for purpsoes of changing colors or cleaning etc.- Is there a method of removing phone from device without spilling unused resin after printing?- Is there a timeline for retail versions of both the printer and the resins?1. Is the average smartphone powerful enough to trigger the hardening of the resin? How much is needed pr layer from a lcd screen?2. What about light bleed? do you see artifacts from "non-pixels" because an lcdscreen isn't really black? It can of course be cleaned up afterwards.3. You brand your own resin. Is it more light sensitive than e.g makerjuice?4. What is the life expectancy and restock-plan for the "window" at the bottom of the vat?

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2016, 06:11:30 am
content: And what's the expected X/Y blur due to the light being emitted omnidirectionally from each pixel? (I think this might be improvable using a FOFP and very good optical contact with the screen, though that would introduce a new source of blur from the fibers being misaligned with the pixels.)I think if this was a good 3D printing technology, it would have been done already with just a screen in place of the projector in a regular resin printer. You could get improved brightness that way, and maybe even UV.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 06:15:26 pm
content: Quote from: PointyOintment on March 26, 2016, 06:11:30 amA simple collimating lens would do the trick.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 06:20:26 pm
content: And what happens when someone calls you in the middle of a print?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2016, 07:19:18 pm
content: There are so many variables associated with differing mobile phones, their screens, brightness, quality, sizes, etc etc.Can they really cope and ensure that their product works with them.At the end, their product (mixture), is in containers which look really sweet and nice to drink. Just like smoothies.So what is to stop young ones, from drinking it, and getting hurt by the (presumably) obnoxious mixture ?Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 27, 2016, 06:20:26 pm"I was just ringing to find out how your first 3D print went ?"'YOU RUINED IT! (by phoning in the middle of it).'

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2016, 05:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: Refrigerator on March 27, 2016, 06:15:26 pmI guess, but in that form factor?

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 09:58:38 am
content: Another SLA 3D printer showed up on kickstarter.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/644653534/slash-the-next-level-of-affordable-professional-3dSimilar to OLO it uses LCD screen for curing (daylight?) resin.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:34:01 am
content: Quote from: frenky on March 30, 2016, 09:58:38 amCouple of bits of Chinglish slipped though - Claim to be in San Diego but the name lists suggests maybe otherwise.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 10:46:41 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 30, 2016, 10:34:01 amI DON'T like it when people are not clear about the truth, as to stuff like that. They are effectively getting people to "invest" in their business/ideas, so they should be clear and truthful.

author: stejep
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 08:17:01 am
content: A couple of videos re the OLO by Angus of Makers MuseThe first one he does a great job of attacking the campain.Then they contact him about him video and the project, and yes some items are answered, but I think even more questions were raised.Steve

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 08:30:44 am
content: He really should read the FAQ before posting the first video. (FAQ was posted approx 2 days before his video).I think it's really bad practice to criticise someone before education yourself about the facts which are available.I haven't seen the second video jet...I'm still VERY sceptical about OLO delivering the product in September but they have at least answered a lot of answers in the FAQ.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:03:09 am
content: I think it is deliverable in the timescale with a competent team behind it - there isn't really that much to it, however I suspect results will be disappointing- the light level coupled with blurring through the glass is going to limit resolution and speed significantly.The other LCD based one looks potentially more promising in principle, as you can use a resin-specific wavelength, avoid the huge losses through the RGB filters and get closer optical coupling.

author: stejep
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:08:37 am
content: I much like the idea of putting my mobile phone under liquid, and also what happens if your 80% into a print and your phone rings ........

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:14:44 am
content: Quote from: stejep on March 31, 2016, 10:08:37 amThat problem could be solved by reading FAQ...Quote

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:17:13 am
content: This surely is completely breaking the triangle rule (whatever it is called).You can have it, CHEAP, QUICKLY and a working/reliable QUALITY version.Choose any 2 of the above, CAPITALIZED options.I'm not really into 3d printing, especially via light. I would definitely steer well clear of this project, myself.The criticizing video, linked to above, seems to raise a number of very good objections to the project.

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 10:22:37 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 31, 2016, 10:03:09 amA few years ago Canon started adding tiny micro lenses in front of sensors so light that would fall between two pixels wouldn't be wasted:I guess they could do something similar, but probably it would be crazy expensive to make and to replace.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 02:50:27 pm
content: time for them (the backers) to invent another millionaire or a bankrupt.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:08:08 pm
content: Meanwhile, the Peachy Printer still hasn't shipped. I guess resin printing is hardhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:10:33 pm
content: Quote from: frenky on March 31, 2016, 10:14:44 amWell, that's hardly a solution... how many smartphone users are willing to disconnect their phones for hours at a time?

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:14:52 pm
content: I think the real question is, how many users have a spare smart phone laying in the drawer doing nothing?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:21:14 pm
content: Quote from: frenky on March 31, 2016, 04:14:52 pmMaybe a lot of them, but... it has to have a high resolution display, and be new enough to run their app, which is not so likely.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:33:26 pm
content: I guess many people underestimate how slow this thing will be (if it works reliably at all) and what a mess it is to handle resin.Letting aside that SLA printed stuff is usually more to look at than to use. Or you can use it for casting but for the typical "maker" use cases, SLA is somewhat pointless.

author: ChunkyPastaSauce
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:50:08 pm
content: Anyone notice at 3:10 from their video, the time-lapse shot? The part is covered in bubbles. Ive never seen resin do that. That was supposed to be over many hours........ It's almost as if it's a pre-printed part, quickly pulled out of the resin and then a timelapse video effect applied...must be their specially formulated resinOr how but their app, which mysteriously has another status bar underneath the cellphone status barOr how about no need for gloves. Must be a their specially formulated resin again.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2016, 05:06:02 am
content: While I find the whole using the cell phone portion of it to be a bit of a cheap novelty. But something like the LG G4with a 500+PPI QHD display, or one of the apple screens of similar pixel pitch, retrofitted with deep/royal/dental blue LEDs for the backlight could be quite serviceable with more normal resins rather than daylight curing ones. Even if light bleeds out to the side and doubles the effective pixel size, you're still looking at 5 mil/127 micron resolution.

author: ArdRhi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2016, 04:25:53 am
content: I backed this thing. If it works acceptably, I can see myself using it to make prototype cases for things. I'll likely try using an old phone (we tend to keep them around when we upgrade) rather than tie up my current phone, probably with a Ting SIM card if I even need it, as it'll do wifi just fine.

author: MadModder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 01:45:01 pm
content: I also backed it. But I'm not sure the thing even exists.Also the app won't work on older iOS than 7.1.Don't know about the Android version requirement.I canceled. Too many red flags.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2016, 05:08:21 pm
content: Hi folks,I have access to and use photo-polymerizing resins every day. Ask your dentist and he/she will have a pile of it, used for white dental fillings. The concept makes sense, however the implementation does not. There are many reasons (already mentioned in this thread) that are technical challenges that need to be over-come.For one, the energy for photo-polymerizing resins has to be high. In the dental office, they use a specific intense UV blue light. Theoretically you could partially cure the resin with a weak light and then place it in a curing oven (which has intense lights) to complete the process once the soft structure has been weakly bonded together. But your object may collapse or distort if it is very fine.Other resin-based printers I've seen use a laser to cure the resin from underneath, usually a blue one of the proper frequency. Mirrors deflect the laser beam, just like if you were doing a laser light show but drawing on the bottom of the tank of resin.Theoretically you could also do this with a matrix of tightly-packed bright blue LED's, light up the LED's to form the cross-sectional shapes of the object you want to print, then lift the "printing ceiling" (as it prints upside down) and cure the next layer, and so on. Each cure bonds on to the preceding layer above it.There is one more thing.... something called the "oxygen inhibition layer". When curing resin, the surface that is in atmosphere will still retain the ability to have new resin bond to it. That allows you to add more material and incrementally cure it. If you take a solid block of resin that is already cured and has been polished or cut, you will not be able to cure new resin to it (there is a process needed to prime it again).So the resin printers I have seen all find a clever way to create an oxygen inhibition layer at the bottom of the tank. Usually there is a membrane that is small enough to allow air molecules to interact with the material yet prevent the resin from pouring out.See this:https://3dprint.com/51566/carbon3d-clip-3d-printing/https://youtu.be/VTJq9Z5g4Jk

author: MadModder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 06:41:49 pm
content: Besides one update telling everyone how to purchase more stuff via backerkit, there has been no interaction with a single backer since OLO was funded. According to the comments. No answers, nothing. Just silence.That's reassuring...I'm not regretting I stepped away from that one.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 10:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: MadModder on May 23, 2016, 06:41:49 pmOh come on! They have got $2,321,811 pledged of $80,000 goal. That is $2,241,811 exceeding their initial expectations.Do you realise how much coke and hookers it takes to burn through that much cash?Give the guys a chance, I'm sure when they get back to their $80k budget everything will proceed as planned. Though they still appear eager for more cash with some "BackerKit" thing?

author: MadModder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2016, 01:16:16 pm
content: Yes. They totally denied anyone to up their pledge to add extra resin bottles and such. They want to handle all extra stuff via backerkit.This made me laugh!(attached picture)

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2016, 02:03:32 pm
content: Perhaps this is not a vaporware after all?

author: Holmes34
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2016, 08:59:25 am
content: It's possible that they are using a photocatalyst to cure the resin which somehow has a high enough turnover so they do not need to include very much of it, whereas regular resin's are regularly photosensitive themselves. If this is the case it would not make the resin look coloured due to the catalyst but should in fact work with visible light. I'd expect the resin's to be very expensive though, and the process would likely be a lot slower than "traditional" DLP's.This theory is impossible to prove though as they use white light for their projection which gives no hints as to the photosensitive reaction going on.The more likely explanation is that it doesn't work.