Cable Conditioners - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 12:08:44 am
content: Woah, these look bad arse!https://www.isoteksystems.com/product/Too bad they do jack-all.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 06:58:54 pm
content: Of course they do something...they are the perfect filters to seperate idiots from money...

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 07:43:45 pm
content: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/isotek?highlight=isotekConditioned alright:AudioGooN:QuoteWhat I think is mean't by burn in from the manufacturers point of view of these things; how long does it take to burn a hole through the wallets of these idiots when they are tempted into buying more of this over priced crap.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 08:34:19 pm
content: QuoteActually, they are very useful for extracting money. The process is simple, someone with more money than brains finds you, you take his money and give him a box that runs some current through a cable....oh how I wish you could do a teardown of some audiophile BS without actually buying it...

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 10:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on November 09, 2019, 08:34:19 pmYou stole my joke...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 10:38:26 pm
content: This isn't the normal audiophool stuff, making really outlandish claims. Everything I looked at uses the same kind of language that a reputable supplier of power cables, protection devices and line filters would use. Though really toned down for the non-technical audience. I didn't see the price list so don't know if that is out of line for what they are offering.Maybe we should pick on more worthy targets. The wooden capacitors that emulate the perfect sound of Stradivarius and the like.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 09:41:50 am
content: I like how the primary spec of each product is "your system value"

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 11:08:37 am
content: I haven't seen any tool for checking the direction of unidirectional cables yet.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 11:23:13 am
content: Are you suggesting that directionality is a made up bs or that we should build and sell one?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 08:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 09, 2019, 10:38:26 pmWell, I agree in general that picking on audiophool stuff has become a sport, and that not all "audiophile" companies should be put in the same basket, but what is conditioning a cable exactly? And, as a poor customer naively asked, how long does it take?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 09:47:57 pm
content: Quote from: magic on November 10, 2019, 11:23:13 amAre you sure you're ready for this?https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/directional-speaker-wires-what-and-why

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 09:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 10, 2019, 09:47:57 pmAfterthis(Polishing wires to enhance the sound of music) orthis(DIY audiophoolic solder from antique lead, a hundred years old pewter and gold nuggets from Alaska) it is too late to be afraid of anything.UPD: Ok Google. How to stop screaming?Major and minor directions of the wire in the wire-wound and carbon resistors.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 10:39:11 pm
content: I guess that in order to cement your place in the clique you have to express ideas that not only confirm the views of the clique, but take it to the next level, and truly believe that you are on the side of truth. Those who already belong will support you, because to not do so opens themselves up to self doubt about their own beliefs.No different to wine appreciation, craft beer & politics really.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 01:25:17 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on November 10, 2019, 10:39:11 pmWell, there's obviously a huge (major) subjective part in *appreciating* audio gear (our ears and brains are not audio analyzers), so comparing it to wine, beer, art, opinions in general makes sense. I don't have a problem with that. As I often say, if you want all your audio cables to be pure gold sprinkled with dust moon, why not. It's your gear and your decision.Using fake science to "validate" the subjective appreciation is deceptive, but people claiming that they can "hear" the difference is alright I guess - you wouldn't challenge someone's taste for wine, as you said. It's all subjective. That's the fake science that is nasty. The problem with audio gear is that it's highly technical stuff, so at some point, people want objective facts (however fake they are) to back up their subjective impressions. But hey, again, as long as nobody forces anyone to buy...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 01:32:42 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 10, 2019, 08:31:06 pmIn reading through their ads I didn't find cable conditioners. I found line filters, power conditioners and cable upgrades. All oversold but no outright BS. I'm wondering if someone found something I didn't or if the was a conditioned response to audiophoolery.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 01:47:31 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 11, 2019, 01:32:42 amFair enough then. I admit I trusted Dave's title without fully checking. There was also MrMobodies's thread (oldish, 2015) about conditioners, but it was about a Solus from Isotek, which is apparently not in their catalogue anymore? but I assume it was a mains "conditioner", as this is what Isotek seems to manufacture. So not a "cable" conditioner. As to the customer's question, it was probably silly, as I don't think I've read on Isotek site that their mains conditioners had to go through a burn-in stage before being fully efficient...Those mains conditioners are nothing but fancy mains filters. Dunno if they are worth the price or the complexity, but mains filters are not bullshit gear per se.So fair enough. I've seen "cable conditioners" bullshit on other websites, but not on this one apparently. Would be interesting to see what Dave says about it.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 07:47:42 am
content: Mains filters are not bullshit per se but what is bullshit is using them in a way which makes no difference outside of your imagination.It's kinda like religion, people always roll their eyes at the other ones

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 01:43:15 pm
content: This quote from their material states: "...while Common Mode noise in introduced by RFI and the wireless communications that are becoming increasinglycommon."Ah, I now understand why it's called 'common mode' noise.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2019, 06:03:41 pm
content: ... "journey", "performance-enhancing", "innovative proprietary technologies", "Exceeding your expectations"... all phrases straight from the millenial's e-book of marketing bogus-crap-speak. Our super excitted copywriter goes on, "What we see and hear is fashioned from, and by, mains electricity – it’s the ‘raw material’ from which the ‘art’ is created." Did they meanartor a massive vapourisingarc?These guys shiney bits are "solid copper 24ct gold." Sick! Which means my audio can now go full scale

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 07:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on November 10, 2019, 09:59:06 pm

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2019, 09:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: Canis Dirus Leidy on November 10, 2019, 09:59:06 pmSorry, I can't read Russian! (And yes, I was lazy enough not to get it through Google translate.) But I'm sure it's bad.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 10:20:09 am
content: Well apart from the total bollocks about your mains cable affecting the sound, the very first sentence on the page is wrong.You don't need mains power, there are these clever new inventions called "batteries".I remember 'back in the day' (late 1980s) I read a few HiFi magazines (in libraries, I was never foolish enough to buy one), and one popular method was using large lead acid batteries as "low impedance capacitors" to improve bass response.I guess this was before it was possible to actually measure such things.../sarcasm

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 03:23:58 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 12, 2019, 09:22:14 pmThey Polish them up with snake oil into buying their cables, then they buy snake oil (wax) to put over the snake oil.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 04:38:19 pm
content: Quote from: ThickPhilM on November 16, 2019, 10:20:09 amAlthough the sarcasm note makes it unclear, use of batteries to improve low frequency response is at worst low grade audiophoolery. As the audio frequency drops to near and below mains frequency supply droop becomes a real issue. In an era when Farad size capacitors weren't even a dream, batteries were a real option. The effects are real, repeatable and measureable.Whether they have a meaningful impact on audio quality is subjective and debatable, but something which can actually be measured is not in the realm of true audiophoolery.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 07:45:57 pm
content: The main issue as I see it with this claim, is that lead acid batteries have a higher impedance than big electros...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 08:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: ThickPhilM on November 16, 2019, 07:45:57 pmSo you are complaining about the technical ignorance of the writer who described the solution. Impedance isn't the fundamental issue, it is the next roadblock after you solve the fundamental problem.I agree that there are many audio fanatics who talk way above their weight class, and many who dabble in circuit modification (I can't really call it designing) well above their weight class. But when these people talk their mistakes are the mistakes of ignorance, not the outright fairy dust lies that many in the field promote. The line can be fuzzy at times between the incompetent and the dishonest, but I think the article you reference was dealing with a fairly competent designer and a less competent writer.If you want to science this just put your Spice simulation to work on a 30 Hz 300 W load (300 W is an extreme, but remember speakers were less efficient once upon a time) on a 50 or 60 Hz mains supplied power system. Limit yourself to the topologies available at the time of the article (center tapped transformer with dual rectifiers or single output transformer with bridge rectifier either one followed by a low pass filter consisting of the impedance of the transformer/rectifier system and a capacitor of a few tens of thousand microfarads). How much harmonic distortion do you see? How much are you willing to accept? Where does capacity dominate and when does the source impedance become the dominant source of distortion?Your late 80s article represents the thinking of an audio designer in the mid-80s given publishing delays. Remember that switching power supplies were just starting to be a thing in the 80s, and switching noise was not a solved problem. May seem dumb now, but using batteries as an alternative to giant capacitors was a trick used in many fields. I have come across several instances. Makes for an interesting Spice model.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 12:30:32 pm
content: As I recall it was a premium mainstream magazine, What HiFi maybe. I expect better levels of knowledge from that kind of publication.Supercaps (1-2.2F) were starting to appear by that time, mostly from my recollection aimed at the car audio market.Using lead acids isn't a horrible idea, it's a good one, if somewhat high maintenance. At the time gel types were rare and expensive, and given the low probability of the DC rails in the amp being at the correct float voltage for a string of 12V batteries, that means using individual cells to try and get close.The local authority I work for still has quite a few properties with wet cell central battery units for the emergency lighting systems, and those 50-odd long strings of Plante cells are a bastard to keep topped up.Not to mention the fact that improper charge voltage/current can have serious consequences... hasn't happened to me, but a colleague topped half a string up, went back the next day to finish (he'd run out of de-ionised water), and found the inside of the door to the battery room studded with shards of battery casing. Fun times!