The ESD coat sexism caper. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 11:36:28 am
content: A few days ago, a friend found a torn pocket on an ESD protective coat at his work. He said he will need to pay someone to fix it. I asked him if his "partner" could sew. He replied that I could be get into serious trouble with the law for asking if she could sew because it is a sexist comment. I was taken back a bit with his reply, because I see absolutely nothing wrong with asking if she could sew. I asked a female friend about this and she said I should never ask if a woman can sew.... it is considered demeaning and sexist and I should have put a male's name in the question as well to be politically correct. My reply was a loud variant of the word "BULLDUST!"Gee, at least I didn't ask if his spinster friend could sew, or if his defacto could sew - I could have been gaoled. Sewing is a skill, for goodness sake.Am I out of touch with the political correct B.S. cafe latte society we have become?I am interested to know what fellow (oops, maybe I should not have used that word) electronics enthusiasts, technicians and engineers think, as many of us may not conform to the many norms of what others expect.Or maybe I am just a grumpy old engineer who refuses comply with the Feminist Militia Act of 1984, section 53 subsection 7b clause (d), risking being arrested by the Thought Police and sentenced to a re-education camp.In any case, I am NOT a misogynist, even though I admit I dislike bra burning feminists, do-gooder Greenies, and tree hugging money-hungry municipal councils. I like women in general, backyard incinerators and chainsaws.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 11:41:04 am
content: Feminism has got pathetic.That's all that is at work. It's no longer about rights; it's now about control.You're only allowed to say this, or do that, etc. And I think it's doubly pathetic how someone being offended (i.e. you not offending, them being) can somehow translate into "misogyny" which is hatred of women! I'm sorry, but if I think you might have a useful skill (albeit based on some outdated stereotypes) how is that hatred? By God.I actually asked a female friend of mine if she would hem some new trousers for me this last weekend, and there was no cry of sexism. But then, she's not an idiot with an agenda, so.

author: kizzap
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 11:56:19 am
content: How the hell is it a sexist question? You are asking another person if they know how to sew. It would be sexist if you said "you are a woman, all women can sew. Fix this for me", but that is entirely different.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 01:03:47 pm
content: I remember about 20 years ago at IBM there was a member of the feminist militia working there, fortunately working in a department which had nothing to do with engineering. I once handed her a diskette and kindly asked her to copy some data onto it. Her reply was, "You think because I am a woman I have to put the diskette in the diskette drive? You push it in!"A couple of weeks later this radical had a picture of a topless man at her workstation. Remembering her outburst earlier, I ordered her to remove it immediately or I would lodge a claim for workplace harassment for displaying offensive sexist photographic material depicting a topless male. She had no choice but to comply.The outcome was somewhat poetic.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 01:23:27 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 10, 2014, 01:03:47 pmIf you would have just put it in the drive for her without asking she would have had an outburst about assuming she was incompetent. Cant win either way, some people are just searching for things to be pissed off about.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 01:45:25 pm
content: Your friend is just a moron.I once had a woman in her 50's giving us a presentation at work (bizarrely, given the topic, loaded with sexual innuendo) walk up besides my seat and vigorously rub my head with both hands while making some uncomplimentary comment about male brains. I have rather thick hair cut #1 all over, and it feels spiky when you rub the palm of your hand over it. Perhaps that was part of the attraction, I dunno.I found it more amusing than offensive and if she was 25 years younger probably would have quite enjoyed it. To the best of my knowledge she did get reprimanded to some very slight degree, but that was due to complaints to management made by female members of the audience.Now just imagine what would happen if I (or any other male) decided (for whatever reason) to walk up randomly to some unknown woman seated in an office to run the fingers of both hands through her hair while exhorting her not to overwork her little girly brain.

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 02:05:26 pm
content: Nothin wrong with asking someone if someone knows how to sew.I know how to sew, how else do you fix holes in work pants, put buttons on, fix up a worn hem ect?I mean, if you don't know how to sew, and you need someone who can sew to fix something for you, how the heck are you going to find out if they can bloody sew?If someone gets offended at being asked if they can sew, tell em to eat a cup of cement and harden the f*** up.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 02:10:32 pm
content: I can almost see a complaint if it were the case that OP didn't know whether the friend himself could sew, and went straight to asking if the wife can. But since the friend already admitted he can't sew by saying he'd have to pay someone to fix it, I have to declare this a case of looking for something to be offended by.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 02:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 10, 2014, 02:10:32 pm"He said he will need to pay someone to fix it."

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 02:16:26 pm
content: They make every PhD in the university take a gender relations lecture now. You wouldn't believe what I heard there. B.S. has become a science.I'm all for equal opportunity and being sensitive not to hurt people if one can avoid it. But asking if a person has a certain skill or not is not offensive. I wouldn't be offended if someone asked me if I could drive a car, speak French, sew or build a pink dollhouse with my painted fingernails while watching grey's anatomy. It's just a question.Now assuming all women can sew is a bit different. I'd be offended if people just assumed I'm a major geek simply because I'm into electronics. I am a major geek though and like it and I'd still be judgemental.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 02:35:10 pm
content: Quote from: GK on March 10, 2014, 02:15:27 pmQuote from: c4757p on March 10, 2014, 02:10:32 pm

author: CaptnYellowShirt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 03:00:27 pm
content: I wonder who his partner would turn to first for help with a flat tire or a dead car battery?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 03:45:30 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 10, 2014, 03:34:31 pmI don't read the Daily Mail.Nor do I hate women.Do some research before you start speaking about western feminism in 2014. I guarantee that you have given it no further thought than "feminism is good" and "I know, I'll call him reactionary and suggest he reads the daily fail. That will make me sound smart".EDIT: In any case, I'll not be going any further into it here, since this is one of the more 'moderate' accounts I have online, and I intend to keep it that way.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 03:57:48 pm
content: Having separate competitions for men and women in the Olympic games is sexist. It's base on the misogynist assumption that women cannot compete with men. I am sure it makes all the feminists mad as hell and they demand equality now.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:11:24 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 10, 2014, 03:57:48 pmIt's always entertaining to note where 'equality' is desired and where it is not.

author: CaptnYellowShirt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:23:20 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on March 10, 2014, 03:57:48 pmThere are physiological differences between men and women.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on March 10, 2014, 04:11:24 pmI always thought it interesting that women fought for (and earned) the right to serve in combat positions within the US military, but you don't hear any of the feminist organizations demanding that women now be required to register for the draft when they turn 18...

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:47:16 pm
content: Quote from: N2IXK on March 10, 2014, 04:43:33 pmNor do you hear them calling for abolishing the draft altogether. It's like, bullshit2.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 04:52:58 pm
content: Quote from: CaptnYellowShirt on March 10, 2014, 04:23:20 pmAnd it's a good thing, too.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 05:27:11 pm
content: Quote from: CaptnYellowShirt on March 10, 2014, 04:23:20 pmThey don't matter that much these days ;-)http://www.npr.org/2014/01/07/260455851/new-law-allows-transgender-students-to-choose-bathrooms-and-sports-teams

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 05:36:46 pm
content: I can sew, not the best, but learnt it years ago.Though if I want tailoring done I take it to a nice Nigerian immigrant who has a tailors shop near me.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 06:53:36 pm
content: Is it sexist to ask a man if he can solder as it is as good a skill as sewing, its almost like people look down on people who can sew which may be sexist in its self, its a skill not a nasty sexist comment

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 07:44:46 pm
content: Another man that can sew,its funny that i ran into a similar thing asking among some people if any of the women were good at cooking (i was planning to just cook up meat and boil vegetables and thought they might know how to make something nice to go with it, say a sauce) and boy did i get an earful of it about stereotyping, the biggest irony being of 4 women only 1 knew how to turn on a gas barbeque, and by that point there was no luck even trying to be civil with that topic

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 08:21:26 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 10, 2014, 02:10:32 pmThat same logic could be used to establish the wife can't sew either (why pay someone to fix it if someone in the household sews?), except the OP still asked about her specifically. Obviously, I didn't hear the original exchange, but the description of it here does sound like it represented stereotype thinking. I wouldn't have thought anyone would find it actuallyoffensive, but I haven't ever been on the short end of that stick, either.QuoteLikewise, asking a group if any of thewomenknow how to cook seems to demonstrate a bias as well... Why not ask the whole group?

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 10, 2014, 08:59:25 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:Quote from: mojo-chan on March 10, 2014, 03:34:31 pm--Now if the guy is just an idiot, clearly that would have little to do with feminism. If the man were a genius that would have nothing to do with feminism as well, but why mention it, except for the opportunity to insult someone. Clearly someone thinks that all of the folks on this thread who mention similar occurences are liars that hate women, and are seeking to promote suspision and conspiracy in the minds of the easily led. Kind of like Monica Lewinsky was a liar and part of a "vast right wing conspiricy" as HC stated.--Anyone who thinks that all events like the one mentioned are the malicious fabrications of evil women haters, might want to get out more often. If you want real examples of hatred, just check the media for insults to Palin and family.""The truth is that even if the allegations are true, the President  is not guilty of sexual harassment."Gloria Steinem 1934 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 01:23:58 am
content: One of the many different jobs my dearly departed father had was being a tailor. HE taught me to sew, not my dearly departed mother. My work is not the most pretty, simply functional. At one point, I was living with a couple of room mates, one of them female, who would ask me to do her sewing for her as I was better at it than she was. My wife and stepdaughter are always borrowing my sewing kit as it is small but comprehensive. In general, I find the PC correct crowd somewhat pathetic and I am usually supremely indifferent to what they have to say.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:40:02 am
content: Ergh, does he tie his own laces in the morning? Seriously, it's a pocket on a jacket, if you can't work out how to use a needle and thread good enough to stitch a pocket back on...Learning to sew, both hand and machine, is a rather useful thing, here it was part of compulsory technical curriculum at primary/intermediate school (ages 12-13) - Woodwork, Metalwork, Cooking, and Sewing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:45:37 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 10, 2014, 11:36:28 amIt was actually an intelligent question to ask.The person with the shirt obviously couldn't sew, otherwise he would have, so it's perfectly fine to ask if their partner can sew. The fact that his partner is a female is only of relevance to those who find it offensive and/or sexist. Too bad for them, they have no right NOT to be offended.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 02:50:45 am
content: Quote from: electronics man on March 10, 2014, 06:53:36 pmStatistically speaking, I'm sure that more men can solder than women, and more women can sew than men. Am I sexist for postulating that?

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:04:02 am
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on March 10, 2014, 02:05:26 pm, I like it.Seriously I have used sewing machines and made some curtains for my daughter, and boy it definitely takes skill to do it properly and not just look like a hack job. I would rather be soldering any day.I have complete respect for those who can turn a piece of fabric into clothing, curtains etc.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:44:18 am
content: Quote from: N2IXK on March 10, 2014, 04:43:33 pmIsn't that part of the ERA?

author: TMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:56:01 am
content: What if his partner was a man, would it still be a sexist comment?

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 05:34:30 am
content: I find these sorts of situation amusing and they are not confined to just sexism, it spans a whole range of modern day PC issues.In the exchange posted by the OP the sexist person was the person making the allegation. The question was benign and only someone who's sexist would associate "sewing" with "sexism"

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 06:20:40 am
content: I truly feel sorry for people who go around being offended all the time.However I feel irritated when I see people who get offended about things that aren't directed at them.It would be like some guy in the middle of a corn field in Iowa saying "It offends me when that guy on the other side of the world, Dave Jones, refers to cheap Chinese merchandise as "Won Hung Lo" "How can you be "offended" when no offense was done to you? I think we are taught or indoctrinated that we have to say we're "offended" by things just so we don't get lumped in as being in cahoots with the alleged offender.I remember as kids in school doing the "Chinese Face" where you take your fingers and pull the corners of your eyes out, but I bet there's kids in China that come up with some kind of funny "Caucasian Face" and I'd bet I'd find that funny to see.So I don't as much see it as "Oh you made a Caucasian face, you're racist!" as much as it's just a childish thing to do and when children do childish things, that is forgivable. On the other hand, when you're an adult and doing childish things, you should probably just feel embarrassed that you're not acting like a mature adult.Now assuming that a woman might know how to sew I think is forgivable because well every woman I know was at least taught some basic sewing skills by their mother when they were a kid. It's no more worse than assuming that a man may know how to change a tire. It's just odds.I have a co-worker that is overly sensitive that any time a male employee disagrees with her about something she tells people that he's sexist and is insecure that he could be wrong and a woman could be right. However she tends to cut people off when they have a suggestion and tell them that they're wrong and she knows their suggestion won't work even before they finish explaining it. I know because she does it to me all the time, but I've learned to ignore it and most of the time when I give her one of those suggestions that she knows won't work, she mysteriously fixes whatever she was stuck on shortly after, so I get some satisfaction knowing that...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 08:30:38 am
content: I agree, some people just want to be spanners in the works of life.Another IBM story... We worked in a large plant and one morning as I was entering the building, I held open the door for a female colleague who said something along the lines of "Woman are not the weaker sex, you know.", without even a hint of thanks. By pure chance the same feminist was trailing me to the same door the very next day. This time, I opened it... and made sure I closed it behind me as a walked on. She got the message.With behaviour like this, women wonder why men often don't give up their seats for them any more. (In the 70's, as a teenager, I was actually told off by a bra burner as I kindly offered her a seat on a tram.) I think feminism has done a lot of damage. Even so, I still offer a seat to older women and pregnant women... that is the way I was brought up.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 09:55:15 am
content: There's a subtle difference between wanting equality and going batshitcrazy over a question about a skill that there's a chance you poses.I'm all for equality between genders, but stretching the definition of harassment/offense to include such monstrosities as asking if someone can sew it is... well... idiotic.If someone wants to see something offensive to him, he will find it - be it penile shaped bannanas, gender identification of connectors, slave-master offensive jargon in technology, religious symbols resembling parts of tech/art/architecture, or asking someone if they poses a skill that is statistically more associated with some of their characteristics, he/she (it?) will find something tobitchcomplain about.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 10:56:42 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on March 11, 2014, 03:44:18 amNot sure if you were joking or not, but no, it isn't. The text of the ERA is as follows:QuoteNotice that it calls for the equality of RIGHTS, not equality of RESPONSIBILITIES. And, yes, I have always supported the ERA.Quote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 09:30:41 amHave a link to this? Certainly individual feminists have taken this stance, as well as women working within the peace/anti-war/anti-militarist movements, but I haven't seen abolition of the selective service system adopted as an official demand of mainstream feminist groups. I'm referring to groups like National Organization for Women or the Feminist Majority Foundation, not groups with a specific antiwar focus like Code Pink or the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom.

author: CaptnYellowShirt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 01:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 09:29:58 amMaybe in 50 years it will be offensive to ask if someone's wife can solder?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 01:58:48 pm
content: It doesn't matter what your friend who calls themself a feminist thinks of the subject. They're unimportant and their opinion doesn't change anything.You do not hear influential feminist groups calling to abolish the draft.And as for your post re. The Olympics. Yes you are correct, it is not a good example. But there are plenty of good examples, and it is still funny to see what is worth fighting for. Every feminist wants more women ceos but where is the outrage over the majority of refuse collectors being male? Yes, its a basic example but there are literally hundreds like it.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 03:31:07 pm
content: I find these "west" societies very interesting when it comes to feminism. Why do you get offended, if someone asks if you can saw? You can only get offended by something you are ashamed, not proud, lesser etc... Are you ashamed that you are a woman? That is a serious mental issue.Reminds me the South Park episode with the black guy on the flag. Why is that only the people with their own insecurities gets offended all the time?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:04:48 pm
content: Please don't patronise. I'm not confused.You're suggesting women are unable to move bins? I don't believe that is the case. I'm a man and I'm quite small in size, but nobody would bat an eyelid if I were to apply to be a bin collector. There's no reason a woman can't do it too. You are making excuses for something that is wrong, which is wrong in itself.Like I said, there are literally hundreds of examples. That is just one of them.Edit: and you have misunderstood the problem with the pay scale issue you mentioned. The problem was that several different jobs were within the same pay band, the result being that you had a desk job that was supposed to pay the same as a more physical job. The pay was set for the job based on the job itself, but the pay band issue remained, so the back pay that is owed to a lot of people (not exclusively women by the way, though the media seems to enjoy framing it as such) is a result of a technically badly managed pay band system and not an issue of discrimination based on sex.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:05:43 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 10, 2014, 11:36:28 amSimple political correctness. Not clear if he was being politically correct claiming that he ought to get in trouble with the law for asking a not really sexist question or if he really thought he would get in trouble with the law because he was influenced by the political correctness of others.It isn't difficult to understand. You claim to take offence on behalf of someone else to demonstrate you are more caring, thoughtful, and kind than anyone who doesn't take similar offence. The more trivial the matter you take offence over the more caring, thoughtful, and kind you demonstrate yourself to be.It escalates becoming a competition to find the most trivial matter offence can be taken over, limited only by the average man like you deciding it is ridiculous and calling bullshit.A game much played by politicians dishonestly trying to portray themselves as more worthy of your vote, hence the name. The real problem is that politicians playing the game don't just try to score points over other players they go further creating laws which make it illegal not to play.The solution is for more people to understand that the players are not caring, thoughtful, or kind, they are either stupid not realising what they are doing or dishonest slimeballs trying to deceive you and either way should be scorned.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 04:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 02:12:54 pmThat article dates from 1981, just after draft registration was reinstated here in the US (it was stopped after Vietnam in an attempt to defuse all the protests which were becoming more and more militant). At that point in history, women were ineligible for high-risk posts within the military, and certainly wouldn't have been drafted as front-line soldiers. The current situation is much different, with women now eligible to kill or die for US corporate interests just like young men are. Do you have anything from NOW that shows that they are CURRENTLY filing lawsuits forcing the inclusion of women in the Selective Service System?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 05:09:14 pm
content: Quite a few women here do garbage collection, and a lot are street sweepers as well. Not going to call them the weaker sex at all, you often see them walking home with a 50kg bag of maize balanced on the head, a baby on the back and a bag in each hand. Call them weak and they will slap you into next week.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 06:01:40 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 11, 2014, 04:48:13 pmJust to point out the problem here, if you say that men's bodies are 'more suited' to this kind of work, you imply that women's bodies are not suited to it. So you imply that women can't do the work properly. Of course this is untrue, and you know it is, which is why it's causing some cognitive dissonance for you right now, and you would rather call me confused than admit you are making excuses based on nonsense.Your last point is a valid one, however, and is the point I was attempting to get across. Feminists do not fight for equality - there are lots of female CEOs and millionaires, it can be done! But when it comes to inequalities that don't actuallybenefitthem, no surprises that there is more often than not, total silence on the issue. The times when something is unequal but nothing is done because there is nodirect benefitto the most prominent group members is when you should be looking critically at whether or not a group that claims to fight for 'equality' is actually doing so.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 07:07:28 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 11, 2014, 05:09:14 pmHere in the US, the sight of a pretty girl carrying a 70lb (or so) A/C compressor through a HVAC supply store draws attention like nothing else, as my friend Brittany Benzaia found out.For some reason, the combination of pretty females and technology just draws attention...

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 08:37:27 pm
content: Quote from: CaptnYellowShirt on March 11, 2014, 01:46:21 pmActually back in the late 80's and 90's all the soldering jobs were done by women. I wanted a summer job with Plessey-Crypto, and the interviewer suggested I was overqualified and should join the RAF as an Electronics Engineer. I did actually apply to the Royal Navy as a Radar Engineer but never got a response.I just needed a job and this was only a 6 month contract. Looks like only girls got it.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 08:47:17 pm
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on March 11, 2014, 03:04:02 amI totally agree with this. When I was in secondary school it was mandatory that boys and girls had to do each others "Design & Technology" lessons. That meant girls joined boys in metal shop, woodwork, electronics, and pneumatics. Boys had to do sewing and home economics.Now I loved all the traditional male classes, but also totally loved home economics (cooking and budgeting), I didn't like sewing so much as it really was dreary - and I missed the machine sewing classes due to illness, so never got to "catch up".However, the biggest complainers in the very interesting electronics and pneumatics classes were the girls. I remember my exasperated teacher asking a girl why she thought electronics pointless, offering repairing her own TV or any other household stuff as an example. She simply replied "I will pay a man to do it!"

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2014, 11:18:46 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 11, 2014, 07:07:28 pmI was thinking more like

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 12:11:45 am
content: Completely off topic, but should you fix an ESD coat with regular thread? Or do you need something special?

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 12:32:50 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on March 11, 2014, 06:20:40 amI loooove people like that. You should tell her women are probably better at googling for a solution than men. That then frees up your time to incompetently get a fresh coffee and incompetently get back to work. Problem solved.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 12:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on March 11, 2014, 06:01:40 pmSo when3 > 2, then2no longer is a number? Who taught you to use logic like that, your mother?see what I did there?

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 01:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on March 12, 2014, 12:38:31 pmSigh. This is the best rebuttal?Well, I'll go for it. If three is greater than two, two is less than three.Maybe I should have said "less suited" rather than "not suited" but in the end the result is the same point really. Saying men are better implies women are worse. In fact there is no way around it given the fact that we are dealing with a set of only two.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 01:55:54 pm
content: Ah, so 'patriarchy' then basically. At least, I hope that's what you're suggesting. Not because I believe it one bit, but because the other options would be either deliberately dishonest or just nonsense.Well, in that case I will bow out of the discussion for good. It is not going to be good for either of us if I continue.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 02:25:30 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on March 12, 2014, 01:37:07 pmNot really. But if the comparison operator is broken where you live, might as well go for the laziest epsilon that gets the job done. Why put in all the effort to think of something really clever if the end result is going to be the same.QuoteMy main point was that "not suited" was indeed bullshit, and "less suited" works just fine. Because, the end result maybe is not the same? Not suited is not suited. Cannot do the job. Less suited is just that, less suited. Can do the job, maybe less optimally but who cares. In the case of scarce labor you can use people "less suited" to still get the job done just fine. If you have abundant labor and scarce jobs, you're more likely to only pick the ones best for the job (all the rest being the same, such as pay and whatnot).Besides, what's wrong with saying women are worse at XYZ? If they are, they are. Fuck that politically correct bullshit. There's plenty of things women are better at than men. Communication for instance.It's what you get when you have two ofsomethingthat are not exactly the same. Different characteristics. People are so silly sometimes.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 02:28:43 pm
content: What realy annoyed me is that there is a lot of pressure to get girls into male dominated subjects but not must to get boys into remain subjects such as textiles so boys are being pushed back in all subjects and as a result are ignored a lot in the education system.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 05:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on March 12, 2014, 01:37:07 pmIn *average* yes.

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2014, 05:34:36 pm
content: The only person who should be insulted by being asked if they can sew, is one who looks down on sewing themselves.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 06:24:41 am
content: The average person will always tell you they are smarter than average, which is, of course, statistically impossible.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 07:00:07 am
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on March 12, 2014, 04:32:29 pmThat probably depends on where you live. Here men showing a genuine interest in working in education with young children are regularly branded as "probably pedophile" by the typical "concerned parties". That does not exactly help top promote the jobs.It also took a long time to make classes like sewing, knitting, textile or cooking enjoyable for boys. When it was decreed that boys should have such classes, while girls should also have workshop classes, something interesting happened. Female teachers teaching such classes routinely took the opportunity to make fun of the boys. Like putting them all into girl kitchen aprons with pink stripes for the cooking class. And insisting they wear those, and not any other kind of aprons.It took years and a lot of fighting to get such behavior eradicated.On the other hand, teacher teaching previously boys-only classes like some workshop were closely monitored and had to roll out the red carpet for the girls.

author: kolonelkadat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 10:10:33 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on March 13, 2014, 07:00:07 ammaybe Im not old enough to have been there for the bad old days, but man I loved home ec/cooking/family living classes. Being the only guy in a class filled with girls learning to cook is pretty great. But man, being the only guy in a class like "family living" is wonderful. To be clear, family living was a class aimed at teaching girls how to be proper wives, So you basically have 20-30 girls competing to please you. It is seriously so much fun.Of course, every dude I knew at the time made fun of me for taking "girl classes". Jokes on them though really.

author: lewis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 10:41:44 am
content: Quote from: mrflibble on March 12, 2014, 02:25:30 pmVery very well said!

author: Tris20
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 10:42:10 am
content: Totally backing the OP here. There's an established tradition of women sewing (in the Uk and US at least) so it's reasonable to ask. However there's never problem with women asking if their husband's are handy with a hammer or if they can be a big strong man and lift move that heavy box for them.I support equallity, but plenty of women use past oppression to get gains in the modern day. To me that's unacceptable and undermines all the suffering that's taken place in an attempt to create equality.Also:"Having said that there is a simple biological reason why there are more men doing manual labouring tasks than women. Men are, on the whole, physically larger and stronger than women so find these tasks easier"By that logic the counter is that women are more therefore smaller and more nimble so are more suited to a task like sewing are they not? There's plenty of "studies" that say women have the advantage when it comes to dexterity and abilities at close range. It all comes from their berry picking heritage...

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 11:11:30 am
content: Quote from: Tris20 on March 13, 2014, 10:42:10 amIIRC denton (now humanetics it looks like?) hires women for doing assembly and soldering of strain gage load cells. Dexterity when it comes to very fine gauge wire going to tiny pads on the strain gages.Also from my personal experience, installing/managing DAQ systems in test vehicles, the female test drivers were more likely to listen when it came to feeding/care of the DAQ package and didn't bitch and gripe as much when something changed.But then again most of the guys that didnt cooperate as much were older, so it could be an age thing too.

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2014, 05:00:37 pm
content: Strange that some of you guys say women are more dexterous. From what I have read on average men have better fine motor skills than women thanks to a higher density of motor neurons. Usually women train fine motor skills more often for socio-economic reasons. Also women have been proven to be more patient, men tend to get annoyed when performing work involving fine motor skills.(Inb4: Reason form performance issues in bed?)

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 11:52:09 am
content: I find women to be the most discourteous drivers. I spend a lot of time in bumper-to-bumper traffic and I can't even remember the last time a woman actually let me into "her" lane, or let me in, in front of her, when turning left into a T-junction with temporarily stationary traffic.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 02:05:53 pm
content: The Political Correctness Police (PCP) are working overtime.The word Aborigine was replaced by Aboriginal. Then the word Aboriginal was then replaced by the word Indigenous. Use the term Aborigine today and you deemed are a bigot by the PCP.The word Negro was replaced by Black. Then the word Black was replaced by African-American (even if they are 6th generation Americans). A white man from South Africa living in the US is an African-American, but that is never used by the PCP for them.We have a TV show here called Living Black. It is a very good show, focussing on Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders. If I made a show called Living White, all hell would break loose. The PCP will have me arrested and charged with inciting racism.The media and police in Australia tend to saying things like, "the offender was of African appearance". Come on, did the offender look like Tony Greig, Muammar Gaddafi, or Desmond Tutu? Rather than acting like puppets of the PCP, it best the media and police just refrain from mentioning the the colour of the perpetrator's skin when it has nothing to do with the offence.Political correctness has become extreme and quite offensive in itself. Extreme political correctness isAnd the bra burning man-hating feminist militia should be treated like

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2014, 03:59:01 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on March 14, 2014, 02:05:53 pmIt's part of the grievance industry. As long as you can hold to the victim role, you can get more government freebies and special treatment. IMO this just holds them back.Up to several years ago public universities around here use to adjust the entrance bar by the candidate's ethnicity ethnicity/race. Asians had the higher bar because they are not complaining, value education and are doing well academically, whites were somewhere in the middle, and hispanics and blacks had the lowest bar (they are better organized and complain more than the Asians). This was outlawed so now they are using indirect criteria that will achieve the same results.Of course these are all gross generalizations of large groups and it is inappropriate and unfair to attribute to specific individuals.