Amber Galileo/Radiance HS MWIR 3-5um InSb - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2023, 02:01:04 am
content: I recently got my hands on this camera. Luckily I had my power supply from my amber radiance 1 and it powered right up. It cools down pretty quickly too (about 6min). Will post more about it as I figure out how to use it. I took a pic of the power board because I was trying to figure out the pinout to power it. Luckily the power connector that it came with is the same as the amber radiance.Does anyone know the RS232 commands to control it?

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 02:47:50 am
content: if memory serves it may actually be RS422. Believe there was jumper you could set for 232/422 ; Also it wasn't simple commands but needed a specific firmware/software combo running under DOS. Think it was called Usermenu ?Assume you have gotten analog video out? If so there should be a video overlay telling you the software/firmware version.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 02:59:34 am
content: Ah ok that is good to know.And yes I have the software called Usermenu. I am going to install it and try it out soon so I will let you know.And yup composite video works via J2 using a SMA to BNC adapter.The camera is running on V1.53

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 08:32:56 pm
content: That's good. 1.53 was the last version. The HS was (still is?) a tank of an IR camera. Wish I could get my hands on one as I spent many hours collecting data with them years back.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 08:49:27 pm
content: Nice! Yeah hard to come by but they do pop up once in a while.While you were collecting data. Do you remember which ports you used? There is a special Amber HSVB as seen in the circuit pic above.I wonder if I need a special interface for it or can it use a frame grabber. I think it's RS422 but in 4 pairs.Also are these camera's able to be user calibrated and output radiometric images/videos?The use is very limited when only using the composite video port compared to my FLIRSC6000.I heard that these cameras can window down too! Just very little documentation out there given how old these cameras are

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 08:52:20 pm
content: I have the radiance 1 manual so I assuming they used the same pinout.Attached is the pinout of the HSVB

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2023, 08:59:18 pm
content: Oh wow I actually found this PDF about that port in my files. I do not have the files they talk about though.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 12:28:33 am
content: Yes I believe the pins were the same with 16 bit digital parallel. There is HotLink serial digital video on the other connector with the power/coms. Never used that. Used several frame grabbers over the years for the parallel data till finally getting a converter box to go to CameraLink.yes, it can subwindow down to 128, 64, and 32 with different level of dilluting or 1:1. Also a dither ability to output a larger format, but never utilized it as you need to use and external mirror.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 12:35:25 am
content: As for radiometric: Not internal to the camera, but since you have the raw it can be done external in RTools or similar. Word of caution is to either use camera side NUC and not double apply a NUC in software.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 12:46:39 am
content: Wow that is certainly good to know! I did a quick search for RS-422 to camera link converter. And they did exist at one point but it seems its hard to find now a days.I was thinking of using one of these since I have an older motherboard in storage that still has PCIhttps://edt.com/product/pci-dvk/And according to the description it should work as long as I can get the drivers from them:"The PCI DVK’s 68-pin connector makes it the best choice for cameras with standard 68-pin SCSI II type cables/connectors, such as the Kodak / Redlake MEGAPLUS i and ES models. Cables are also available for the Texas Instruments TMC-1001PF, Raytheon Infrared Radiance 1 and HSX, Cincinnati Electronics Irris 256 ST, and most Hamamatsu* cameras. Most other AIA monochrome, Category 1, extended single and dual channel digital cameras are also supportable, but may require a custom cable. See Cables for more information."As for getting radiometric data. Correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that if I am able to get the HSVB/RS422 interface working I am able to get the radiometric information using RTools? Do you happen to know what format the files (video or image) were? Wondering if it can be used with something like FLIR ResearchIR as I have that available and is much more modern.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 12:57:20 am
content: Sorry, it has no radiometric stored in the camera. You would have to build a calibration in something like RTools RCal. The Galileo/HS would work with RTools. Not sure which capture cards played nice with the RTools. Bitflow and Epix come to mind.These cameras were never 'thermography' but tailored to scientific radiometric measurements. The thermography cameras were too black box and the Galileo/HS line allowed full deep dives into what the FPA was capable of doing.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 01:03:08 am
content: Ok that makes sense! Reminds me of the newer cooled cameras where you can build a user calibration in ResearchIR even though it didn't have a calibration from factory.And ok cool. I will research those brands.That makes sense as well. I've recently learned that cooled cameras have direct access to the FPA, which is how you are able to adjust integration times vs uncooled which you can not.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 11:53:34 am
content: the ability to adjust integration time makes the sensor way more useful for a variety of tasks. very short for high temperature and very long for cold temperature scenes. Of course that makes it way more involved on performing NUC, bad pixel replacement (BPR), and temperature calibration.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 11:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: IR_Geek on November 17, 2023, 02:47:50 amHmm Do you remember the pinout of the camera? I think you might be right about RS422. So my camera has a RS232 connector on the breakout cable. However whenever I try to connect to it I get timeouts. It only uses 3 pins.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2023, 11:24:40 pm
content: I found this in the case the camera came with. The Connector is a DB25 Connector which I assume plugged into a host machine. But to where the wires leads is still a mystery.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 12:27:11 am
content: Interesting. Assume the photo with the red, white, and black exposed wire on the DB9 connector is on the breakout cable coming from the camera? If so then it may already be setup as RS232If that is the case then be sure the firmware and software version are the same. Not sure the GUI with RTools worked on every firmware version. Try the usermenu DOS software. It may require a null modem to swap the Tx/Rx.Are there any other connectors besides power and the DB9?

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 12:33:32 am
content: Hmm interesting. I will have to do more experimenting.For the Breakout it goes:-DB9 (Labeled RS232)-SYNC- (BNC)-SYNC+ (BNC)-Power (AMP MIL style Connector)

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 12:39:18 am
content: Wait a second. Is this the NULL modem you were talking about? It is DB9 Male on both Ends. This came in the case too!

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 12:47:17 am
content: That's just a gender changer, but that could mean they used a null modem cable. All a null modem does is swap the Tx and Rx. try swapping those to signal lines.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 12:50:01 am
content: Yeah I will try swapping the lines in a bit. Fingers crossed it is just as easy as that haha.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 01:41:59 am
content: Found this on the WayBackMachine from the original website. The Galileo/HS was on another level from the Radiance 1"The Galileo camera is a fully self-contained infrared camera. Features such as compact size, single DC input voltage operation, and remote control enable Galileo to be compatible with ta variety of applications, notably remote sensor functions.This camera incorporates Amber's 256x256 InSb Snapshot focal plane array into a high reliability, cryo-cooler/dewar assembly with at-dewar electronics and dedicated signal processing electronics. The AE173 FPA furnishes a detector pitch of 30 µm, and implements a centroid windowing feature, allowing full 256x256 operation at 120 Hz, or 128x128 at 480 Hz, or 64x64 (1,400 Hz) subarrays.Galileo's signal processing electronics are based on a three-board set that includes uniformity correction, power, and video. The camera is designed to accommodate separation of the sensor engine from the signal processing electronics via an interconnect cable up to ten meters in length with the appropriate shielding.The camera furnishes composite analog video in RS-170 or PAL formats, and 12-bit digital data in parallel differential or serialized ("hotlink") high-speed formats. Additional features such as FPA control via external synchronization signals promote camera use in a variety of special applications. "

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 01:59:34 am
content: Yeah wow! Another reason why I want to get this fully operational again. The ability to sub window down! Those frame rates are impressive given this was from 1992/1993.Also i've never heard of HotLink before, I wonder what the data rates are like. I believe those pins are also on the 15 pin D-Sub Connector.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 02:09:02 am
content: ok no dice. Switching TX/RX didn't work. The RX led didn't light up on my tester so it is prob not the right way. Switching it back made it light up again.I'm wondering if the RS232 was there originally and they switched to RS-422? There were two sets of these connectors in the caseOne labeled Galileo one Radiance HS

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 01:52:14 pm
content: Only other thing is to check the baud rate and other settings on the COM. Not all USB to COM play nice. They originally came with 25 pin COM cables and it appears it was 'cut' so they could replace with a newer standard 9pin. I'd assume 232 is correct since there are only 3 wires on that 9pin cable. The analog video should say the baud rate.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 06:05:16 pm
content: Yeah I believe the baud rate is correct 9600, and it says 9600 on the analog video. I will post full settings in a bit.Side Note: I contacted the frame grabber companyhttps://edt.com/product/pci-dvk/Fingers cross they still have the firmware files for the Amber Cameras (Galileo/HS/Radiance 1). They said they discontinued this card in 2014. Which isn't that far back.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 11:53:32 pm
content: Some interesting shots of the boards.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2023, 11:56:35 pm
content: Some interesting shots of the boards. Pt 2Very cool to see the Linear Stirling Microcooler located towards the top of the camera.Looks like it was manufactured in 1997 by Hughes

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 07:47:12 am
content: Still a long shot but FLIR ResearchIR 4 has a selectable pixel type for the Amber Radiance 1!! (It even has selection for Amber 4128 which was their LN2 Dewar unit, as well as Phoenix cameras)In Theory that means If I convert the 12-bit RS-422 Amber HVSB port to CameraLink, Then Camera Link to GigE it may be possible to connect to ResearchIR 4?Would be a huge breakthrough if that is remotely possible haha.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2023, 06:43:29 pm
content: Still no dice on communicating with the Galileo. There is no response when sending this command. It could be a software thing where other programs used a different hex command.On the radiance 1 byte 3 is 01 instead of 0a. So that might play a role.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 10:50:55 pm
content: Had any more luck with the Galileo?

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 10:56:29 pm
content: No unfortunately. Been pretty busy with other work/projects haha. I will prob get back to it after the holidays

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 11:10:09 pm
content: Roger that. I've got some time off and playing around the internet archives. I'll see what more can be dug up. Maybe there are some cards that handle the HotLink. Never used it but sure seemed a lot easier on the cabling. Of course it probably wouldn't play nice with any of the FLIR capture software.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 11:12:12 pm
content: Yeah I was looking into hotlink because it only required 2 wires rather than 20 or so pairs of RS422. But yeah it prob wouldn't play nice since FLIR usually looks for Pleora or cameralink

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 12:17:18 am
content: Sorry to keep you all waiting. But here is an update from where I last left off.So after learning more about RS-232 and it's voltages and wiring I can confirm that my Galileo does communicate via RS-232.My issue all along was that the firmware and software is very tightly linked. Also using a virtual machine is a no go. I was able to finally connect when I used my other PC with Windows 10.I actually was able to obtain a 3rd party software from a forum member that works under windows 10. I am able to establish an active link but it freezes up sometimes.The firmware that is running on my camera is V1.53I actually got my hands on another Radiance HS and this one is running on 3.21 (much newer firmware). This one works perfectly with the utility.I am wondering if there is an issue with my older camera or it just needs a firmware update. The latest firmware I was able to obtain was v1.58

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 02:57:10 am
content: The “Menu” software version has to match that of the cameras firmware. I believe I only have Menu Version 3 so that will not work with Camera Firmware version 1.53. I will have to check whether I have other versions of “Menu”.I am told that the Menu software will run under “DOSbox” but I have yet to get the Menu software working with my Radiance 1 camera when running on a real DOS PC so little point in trying to do so in a DOSBox session.From memory, the PCMCIA card in the camera contains the complete system firmware and I have managed to create a bit for bit copy of the 1MB Linear FLASH card and the copy works fine in the camera. You could try copying your 3.21 firmware onto another Linear Flash card and see whether your older camera will accept it. The calibration data resides in separate battery backed memory.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 02:59:58 am
content: Oh cool. Yeah I will try DOSbox. Unfortunately the Galileo doesn't have a PCMCIA card. I wish it did since it would be easier to upgrade the Firmware. I think the Flash is soldered onto the boards. There is a program to flash it though I have to dig through my files

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 12:46:22 pm
content: Yep, the Radiance 1 and Radiance HS are different in a lot of areas. Interesting, I've never seen 1.58 in person. Like to get a copy of that in the future if possible. If memory serves, the standard way to upgrade the firmware is you have to talk to the camera with the current version. Then upload the new, restart, and use the new software.I finally picked up a Radiance 1 'shell'. No camera inside but it does have electronics. One of these days I'm going to have to figure out how you find these cool toys!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 02:30:54 pm
content: Thank you both for the information on the differences between the Radiance 1 and HS platforms. When I obtained the official “Menu” software from the Amber Senior project engineer he commented that it should work with my Radiance 1 despite containing references to the Radiance HS. He said the two camera firmwares were basically the same. Sadly I have yet to get the Radiance 1 to respond to that HS version of the software despite the the correct version (V3). Most frustrating and I need to spend some time investigating the reason for the inability to establish communications (it fails the communications check that Menu provides)These are relatively rare cameras due to their initial purchase cost and age. It is testament to their build quality that some of them are still performing well to this day. The Amber Senior project engineer was very pleased to hear that my camera was still working well beyond its expected service life. He told me about a private project he completed a few years ago for a company that still uses an Amber Radiance cooled camera and the DFOV lens. He built them a special combined power supply, data interface and software package for controlling the lens.With regard to finding such cameras…. All of my working cooled cameras came to me via eBay and at very good prices. Sadly times have changed since those purchases though and I see far fewer “bargains” these days and some of the cooled cameras being offered ring alarm bells with me as they are unlikely to be viable due to condition or the need for unobtainable software (ex military types). I think I just got very lucky to find the cameras that I have when they were at more hobby friendly prices. My FLIR SC4000 purchase remains the best bargain camera buy at £900 but then there was the fully functional, low hours, MWIR AGEMA THV550 for 99 pence ! That was also somewhat of a bargainAnother THV550 with a faulty EVF cost me £200 a few years ago and that was also a great price for such a camera.The SC4000 that I have is very unusual in that it is the expanded wavelength coverage version that covers part of the SWIR band down to 1.5um. That produces some very interesting thermal imagery through plate glass windows and opaque ceramic substrates !Sadly my days of such exotic purchases seem to be behind me now as prices have increased considerably in recent years. I still have plenty of unusual cameras to “play” with and keep me occupied thoughI have been repairing and testing modern, current model, thermal cameras in recent months. Most have come out of China and have been from various Retail price points. Sadly they are all pretty similar inside and, for me, quite boring. Almost getting to “system on a chip” levels of integration and, of course, common LWIR microbolometer technology. For me, they are less interesting as I appreciate fine engineering and love to see a nice solid metal chassis with well designed engineering withinNot much of that to be seen in modern budget microbolometer cameras…. More like “good enough” engineering at the lowest possible BOM cost ! I know I am a dinosaur with these views, but I am a happy dinosaur when working on the older cameras with their fine engineering and differing approaches to construction and electronics packageThis is why I like the Amber cameras

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 04:45:36 pm
content: Yeah no problem Fraser. It seems the way they programmed these are all very device specific haha. Wish they had a little more code reusability back then. I would like to reverse engineer these programs because it seems to me they are just sending hex commands over RS232. When I have more time I will do some test. The ultimate goal is to bring these programs to modern standards. So the program can run on Mac or windows. Could be a cool project considering I went to school for computer science haha!And yes these are rare cameras indeed. The way I see it is that finding these cameras and keeping them alive is like owning a piece of history in the infrared world. (And yes we can keep these alive, I know a person that actually services the Hughes cryocooler inside). My goal is to document these cameras more with both documentation and video on YouTube. You know these are rare when u can't find any photos or videos online about these cameras. I have only seen them in science publications in very grainy photos from the late 1990s and early 2000s.Yeah same. This hobby is kinda of getting out of hand for me. I have a lot more to show you since I was last active on this forum. Many new cameras and lenses ranging from older pour filled LN2 cameras to more cooled cameras! I basically have the entire line from amber to indigo to flir nowEven though you may not be purchasing these cameras anymore I am gladly willing to carry that torch. I have so much to talk about and post about. Just gotta find some time to sit down and do it. And yes just like you I started out small with simple microbolometer cameras but when you get into photon detecting cooled cameras the rest is history haha. Only cooled cameras really interest me now. The design of ROIC's, how cryocoolers evolved over the years, and the exotic materials used for each wavelength range are all very fascinating.I think for me my end goal is to complete my collection with a modern x8580. Might be a while before I do that though. Because the price of the new ones FLIR quoted were out of reach for most sane people haha:X6980 Series$153,800.00X8580 Series$159,900.00Hard to justify considering I could buy one of my favorite Lamborghini's at that price

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 04:59:20 pm
content: And yeah the Amber cameras are build like tanks. I have yet to open my other Radiance HS but pretty sure that cryocooler is from 1996-1999. The cool down performance is insanely good and healthy. It cools down in just under 5 minutes.I have another radiance 1 that is broken. It doesn't reach the set point temperature. Maybe time to do a teardown on it. Interested to see how everything is put together.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 05:54:26 pm
content: I have a Radiance 1 that is the opposite of yours...... a perfect cooler with excellent cool-down time....but no boot. (the cooler control is independent of the main operating system so runs even if boot fails)It came to me without the Linear Flash card so I cloned the PCMCIA LF card that was working in my original Radiance 1. Sadly the camera still appears pretty much dead yet the processor board is powered and the IC's are generating some heat. The cloned card works in the original camera so it is not a LF card type related issue. It may just be a power rail issue but I need to reverse engineer that part of the camera to see what is going on. In a worst case scenario, the unit is a spare cooler/sensor array for my original camera. I hope to have the time to repair the camera but much depends upon the cause of the failure to boot.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 05:59:01 pm
content: Hmm interesting. Yeah it is quite a mess in there. I opened the radiance 1 and there are alot of jumper wires going to places haha. I wondering if something got knocked loose. Maybe we will know more once I post the tear down photos.The Radiance 1 didn't come with a PCMCIA card but I took the one from my original one and it booted right up. Does your fan start to spin when you turn on yours. Even without a card the camera's fan turns on. After that if it has a card in it. It will beep and the cryocooler will start up. Seems like mine is different from yours since the cryocooler won't start unless there is a card in there.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 07:01:21 pm
content: I shall have to test my faulty Radiance 1 again and check the exact start up behaviour as it is quite a while since I tested it.Thanks for the comments on the fan and cryo cooler.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 08:05:26 pm
content: Yeah no problem. Hopefully we can figure it out.Also I found a link to many of amber's products on the way back machine. Looks like there was a beefed up radiance 1 back in the day:https://web.archive.org/web/19970710120337/http://www.amber-infrared.com:80/products.html

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2024, 08:45:41 pm
content: Quote from: IR_Geek on May 26, 2024, 12:46:22 pmYeah the Radiance HS I have has 3.21 on it. Seems much newer. The front of the camera says Raytheon, so this camera was prob made after amber was bought by RaytheonYes you are correct you have to use the current versions' utility to upload a .hex file. Then you can communicate using the new usermenu of the upgraded version

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2024, 12:30:07 am
content: https://web.archive.org/web/19981205061924/http://www.amber-infrared.com/service/software.htmlLooks like as of Dec 05 1998, the latest versions were:UserMenu ... DOS based "GUI"Radiance 1 ... v3.0Radiance PM / 1T ... v1.61Radiance HS ... v3.0But were different for ImageDesk IIv3.0, v1.61, and v1.58 respectively. The ImageDesk versions of the controls were GUI interface within Windows.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 12:33:04 am
content: Interesting stuff I found out. After looking at the hex file of the Galileo firmware I saw that each line contained a colon and the file ended in :00000001FFApparently this is Intel Hex format. I used a program called Edsim51 that was able to convert intel hex into assembly. And I think it worked?Attached is a snippet of what I got. The assembly code is pretty long. At least we know that the .hex format of these cameras are of Intel Hex.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 11:38:31 am
content: Excellent work. Hopefully that leads to lots more nuggets of information.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 04:47:32 pm
content: Thanks. And yeah, after some digging in the release notes for some of the firmware found in 1.58 of usermenu I found this:"The Galileo camera is an off-the-shelf Amber infrared product. This release covers the embedded software that resides on the TMS320C31 DSP chip in the camera used for controlling the camera’s functions."I had a gut feeling it was the DSP chip by TI responsible for running the firmware since it was sitting next to 4 AMD Flash chips.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 06:41:13 pm
content: I shall have to disassemble my Radiance 1 and see how it’s hardware architecture compares to that of the Galileo platform. I am buried in other tasks at the moment thoughMaybe I can find time later this week. I am still keen to better understand why the “Menu 3” software for the Galileo HS does not work with the Radiance 1.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2024, 06:45:02 pm
content: I wonder if it is because the Radiance 1 uses an entirely different microprocessor architecture. I will have to tear down my non-working Radiance 1 to see if it has the same TMS320C31 DSP chip.Edit: Looks like it has the same microprocessor

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 08:59:22 pm
content: Got an original copy of the DSP TMS320C31 Starter kit. Waiting on a floppy drive to come in. Thought it would come with a disk. But given it's from 1996 it makes sense haha

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 10:50:56 pm
content: I completed a teardown of the Radiance 1 this evening and have downloaded all of the IC's datasheets.I will post the full set of teardown images in a new thread so that it may be found by anyone searching for such in the future. The camera contains some interesting IC's but thankfully nothing very exotic.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 11:05:57 pm
content: As a side note, during the teardown I checked where the Lithium backup cell was connected and traced it to two DALLAS branded IC's. One is the expected RTC+RAM (DS1485S) but the other is a microprocessor power management IC (DS1236S). The non-rechargeable battery is directly connected to these two IC's and my battery was completely discharged. I have to wonder whether this could be why my camera will not boot. Something to be investigated later.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 11:22:37 pm
content: A quick list of the most significant IC's found in the Radiance 1 camera.AD688AQ - Precision +/-10V referenceAD811AR - Wideband OP-AMPAD7874 - Four channel simultaneous sampling, 12-bit ADCADS-118MC - 12bit, 5MHz ADCAM26LS31SC - Quad differential line driverBT478KPJ80 - 80MHz RAMDACBT858KPF - Video encoderCY7C192-20VC - 64K x 4 Static RAMDAC8413FPC - Quad 12bit DACDS1236S-10 - MicromanagerDS1336S - “Afterburner” Heavy duty power switchDS1485S - Real Time Clock + RAM (8K x 8 )HD63484CP98 - Advanced CRT controllerHM628512LFP-7 - 512K x 8 SRAMIDT 7005-S35J - 8K x 8 dual port SRAMMAX232 - UART/RS232 level converterMT42C8128DJ - Specialist Television VRAMMT5C1005DJ-25 - 256K x 4 SRAMMT5C1008DJ-25 - 128K x 8 SRAMSCC68692C1A44 - Dual UART (DUART)TMS320C31PQL - DSP microprocessor systemTPC1280VB-160C - FPGA

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2024, 11:32:30 pm
content: Nice work. Looks like it uses the same DSP Chip. Also doesn't look like there is any damage to any of the boards. Does the fan turn on when u tried to power the unit?(And wow I see a RadioShack battery, shame they closed most of the stores, use to be my go to for buying parts as a kid haha)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 03:29:36 pm
content: Some developments on the Radiance 1 front. I am aware that this is not a Radiance 1 thread but Mr Sheep took an interest so I will post here for his and others information.This morning I fitted a new CR123A Lithium cell in the ‘faulty’ Raytheon 1. I did this in the hope that it might resurrect the camera from its sleep as the battery is an important input to the Dallas micro processor management IC as well as the Dallas RTC+RAM.I powered the ‘faulty’ Radiance 1 with no PCMCIA card installed and the cooler started. The fan also started. The cooler reached operating temperature after 6 minutes and dropped its speed to a gentle Purrrrrr….. like a catOf course no indicator lights lit (not even “power”) and the EVF appeared totally dead (no raster). I switched the camera off, inserted a programmed PCMCIA card and restarted the camera. There was no difference to when it was operating without a PCMCIA card fitted. I then installed my original PCMCIA card from my working Radiance 1 into the ‘faulty’ camera and….. it booted normally ! Yes it started and displayed a thermal imageIt warned that all configuration settings are missing or corrupt, but that was expected. These settings and calibration tables may be rebuilt via control software. The very first images that I saw out of the camera were of the side of my PACE soldering iron. I then set up a hot coffee mug as my standard “proof of life” imageThe dead pixel map and image calibration need to be sorted out, but the camera is definitely not faulty. I checked the Honeywell 8MB Linear Flash cards that I installed the V3.0 firmware on and neither work in the camera. I then installed them in my first, known good, camera and they work fine. Weird ! Further investigation is needed on this anomaly but I have several other Linear Flash cards of various makes and capacities to try in the camera. Hopefully it will like at least one of them ! I am sure I tested the ‘faulty’ camera with my known good PCMCIA card and the camera did not boot. That makes me think the Lithium CR123A cell 3V output is needed for a successful boot. Pictures attached.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 05:24:37 pm
content: Holy this is huge! Good to know the battery is vital to the boot operation. I knew it was kind of important the way they gave a cut out on the PCB so you could service the battery. I am gonna try this on my other Radiance 1. (Disconnect battery to see if it boots).Also I had trouble with cloning my card as well. A cloned card doesn't work but my original card works for both Radiance 1. I wonder if the card size and manufacture have to be the same.Also how did you figure out that the battery was tied to the "Dallas micro processor management IC as well as the Dallas RTC+RAM"

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 08:32:52 pm
content: OK, some testing has been done.....I programmed all of my Linear Flash cards with the data from my original AMBER provided card. The data copy was verified and my CSM Omnidrive is a very reliable programming tool. None of the cards would work in the second Radiance 1 camera that I thought was faultyI then tried all of the cards in my original, working, Radiance 1 and ...... most of the cards worked fine ! The ones 3 that did not work weer not a surprise as they are later technology and somewhat different to the original linear Flash cards. I attach a photo of the cards that I tested. The ones on the right work with my original camera. The ones on the left do not work in either camera. The question is.... why do the cards work in the original camera and not in the second unit that I thought was faulty ? My immediate thought was software revisions in the camera. There are several IC's in the camera that are programmed and I remembered one on the PCMCIA port PCB. I suspected that this IC might influence Linear Flash card compatibility. Mu original camera has V1.1 on this IC whilst the second camera has V1.0 on the same IC. The other programmable IC's show the same version numbers. I believe teh V1.1 configuration may provide wider Linear Flash card compatibility. Can the V1.1 IC be duplicated ? No idea. That is an investigation for another day.The original PCMCIA PCCard is a FUJITSU 1MB Linear Flash card with the model number "81011-20". It works in both cameras without any issues.As a side note, the behaviour of the cooler diffres at switch on depending upon whether the camera is booting or not. When the PCMCIA card is absent or not compatible, the camera starts the cooler as soon as the power switch is operated and the cooler just "does its thing". If the camera starts properly and boots with a compatible card, the cooler behaves slightly differently..... the power switch is operated and the cooler briefly starts, then stops and waits for the camera to get to a certain point in the boot sequence before restarting.I discovered the direct connection of the lithium cell to the two DALLAS IC's using simple continuity checks. I expected the RTC+RAM to be connected to it, possibly via a diode (not present) and checked the other DALLAS IC after seeing that it is a microprocessor power management IC with a backup battery input.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 09:04:27 pm
content: Let me check my cameras and see if I can replicate what you are experiencing. I will also check the versions of those chips. And my guess is yes they can be copied. If you look at my TFOV post I got a new T48 Programmer that can prob read that chip. We just need to know what that part number is first.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/amberraytheon-triple-field-of-view-(tfov-60180500-mm)-lens/msg5541547/#msg5541547

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 09:53:39 pm
content: I have just identified the PAL used on the PCMCIA PCCARD PCBA. It is an MMI PAL16L8BCN.I removed it to see if it can be read using my Wellon programmer and sadly the security fuse has been set. Copying such a protected PAL chip is beyond my current skill set. With a Google search I do see that there are well documented ways to do so with a PAL16L8 however.Pictures attached

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 10:31:18 pm
content: Interesting. Seems like a hardware hacking attempt will be needed. Do you have a link to said method. Seems like a brute force attempt of combinations will be needed. :0

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 10:38:42 pm
content: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/newbie-needs-help-cloning-a-pal16l8.48690/http://dreamjam.co.uk/emuviews/readpal.phpIt does not sound too involved, though I note that another model of Wellon programmer is said to not work with the detailed "27C020 adapter".

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 10:40:35 pm
content: I have the TL866CS. Maybe I can give it a go. The one u have is not a registered PAL so that is good news.Might be a lower priority thought as I have a lot on my plate in regards to the other projects hahaHere is what my card looks like.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 11:48:07 pm
content: Your card is a standard Intel product.https://search.app/5HjWykkoLooxJhtp8This is a low priority for me as well as I can just put the original card in the second camera (the fussy one!) and use one of the other cards in my original camera (the promiscuous one). I am curious as to what the issue is though as it is clearly not an attribute problem as neither the original nor the clone cards have attribute memory. The cards should all comply with the relevant PCMCIA standard so the issue with the second cameras PCMCIA port must be subtle. We can forget card based memory controller incompatibility as well as the Linear Flash cards have no such controller (unlike AT cards). A mystery that must wait until another time when I have more spare time. At least I now know that the second camera is working. I just need to investigate whether I can rebuild the calibration tables etc with the utilities that I have available to me.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2024, 11:52:32 pm
content: Agreed haha. I want to get the "Non-working" stuff working first. And I think for you to rebuild the NUC u just need to use the RTOOLs Amber Radiance 1 controller software. Were you ever able to get that running. they work with both my Radiance 1's. However please do note that I think one of the menus is bugged. It won't let u leave the tab unless you open the program with the camera off and you hit NULL to switch tabs. After u switch tabs you can turn on the camera again and connect.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 01:27:33 am
content: this has been an excellent read. Been a long time since I've done any kind of 'electronics' this deep. The deeper you guys go the more I feel exchange between Oddball and Big Joe in Kelly Heroes...Big Joe: What's happening?Oddball: Well, the tank's broke and they're trying to fix it.Big Joe: Well, then, why the hell aren't you up there helping them?Oddball:  I only ride 'em, I don't know what makes 'em work...On that note. My shell of a Radiance 1 has a Fujitsu card near close to Fraser's original 3.0 card but it's only printed in black and white and has "Standard" written instead of "Thermography". The number on the side is different: 81011-20 9408 K38There will be software differences between the thermography and standard.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 01:29:50 am
content: haha nice. And IR_Geek that is a good catch! I wonder what the thermography one looks like menu wise and whether it will work on my camera.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 02:04:39 am
content: Believe it added (or enabled) another menu group in DOS UserMenu for real time temperature on the video feed. Unsure on the newer GUI's that came later. Maybe the same thing. They were there but wouldn't do anything unless you had the extra thermography in the firmware.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 02:12:03 am
content: Ah ok that makes sense. Fraser might have the Radiance 1T that had a temperature calibration.Until I get the amber working with RTools temperature calibration will have to wait for me. I already ordered a NI 1422 frame grabber.This frame grabber was specifically asked for in the RTools manual

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 02:27:36 am
content: One thing to remember is that sometimes a NUC is refereed to as 'calibration' in some documentation and sometimes gets mixed up with a temperature/radiometric calibration. The IR world and terminology has evolved over the years and also from vendor to vendor.The NUC is just done to get all the pixels to behave in the same fashion for each integration setting and lens combination. Also you can perform a NUC in the camera electronics and ALSO in computer side software. Can get some weird results if both are enabled at the same time. Not sure with this camera, but some would let you put the camera side NUC to just the analog video. This would provide a clean analog video output for real time observation / alignment and then you could get a RAW digital video to a computer. That way you could 'fix' the video later with better NUC's or calibrations if at some point you discovered an error. Or if you had to change settings on the fly during a collection.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 02:35:12 am
content: That is a great point. I have seen this before as there are camera nuc files in researchir for my sc6000. ResearchIR also allows for a (PC side) NUC.BTW RTools is great software haha. Works well with the SC6000. Was a little tricky getting it work with a Phoenix camera as it required a specific chipset and needed the iPORT high performance driver to get it to work on my windows 7 Setup.NIC that I bought:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CGZD7YJI am glad I still have a PC with PCI slots haha. I need it for this card and the frame grabber that is coming in the mail

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 09:36:45 pm
content: Just in case of interest, here is an screen capture of the CSM Omnidrive card analysis for the original 1MB Fujitsu PCMCIA LF card. Note the IC type being a 28F010. I believe that the Intel card detailed earlier uses the same memory IC's. My other cards use the 28F008 and 28F016 memory IC's and I have to wonder if this is the issue with the older PCMCIA port configuration. It may be expecting 28F010 memory IC's ? I shall try to source a card with that chipset to test the theory but they are quite hard to find. I thought that the host system was effectively blind to the actual memory IC's used in Linear Flash cards as they just present an address and data bus to the host, with memory cell allocation on the card (not a true memory controller though). Maybe there is more to it than thatI have attached the datasheets for the Intel 28F008 and 28F010 memory IC's.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2024, 10:56:32 pm
content: Yeah I think I am convinced it has to be the exact same chip. I used an older HP laptop to clone the card I have and it doesn't work even though I was able to read and copy over my firmware. I will eventually test this theory by buying the same 1Mb card.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2024, 12:09:34 am
content: I believe we are witnessing the challenges of using Series 1 and Series 2/2+ PC Cards cards in a host. The host has to know what to do with the three different series of cards. Two different software setups are required to cope with both Series 1 and Series 2/2+ cards. If a host is only set up to recognise Series 1 cards, a Series 2 card will not be recognised. Sound familiar ?The original linear flash card that I have is a Series 1 type containing 28F010 memory IC’s. All of the cards that I bought are at least Series 2, with some being Series 2+ or even Series 3/5. The Series 2 Intel cards use the 28F008 Memory IC and This may be used to spot whether a card is Series 1 or Series 2 etc. Intel Series 2+ apparently uses 28F016 memory IC’s.What I believe we are seeing with the fussy Radiance 1 cameras is a PCMCIA port configured for Series 1 cards only. When we insert a Series 2 card, it does not know what to do with it. The more promiscuous Radiance 1 camera that I have clearly has a later configuration that supports both Series 1 and Series 2/2+ cards but it does not recognise Series 3/5 cards, such as those containing StrataFLASH.A very enlightening Intel document detailing Inter Series PCMCIA card compatibility may be found here……http://intel-vintage-developer.eu5.org/DESIGN/FLCARD/APPLNOTS/29215801.PDFFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 08:07:04 pm
content: I have just ordered a Series 1 Linear flash card of 2MB capacity from the USA. They are surprisingly difficult to find and those that I found were expensive. I ended up buying from a seller who checks the cards for their type and this avoids the "Russian Roulette" of buying random, unidentified cards. The seller is detailed below:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220955052254The card is sensibly priced at around £18 but the postage to the UK cost as much as the cardSuch is life. I did not really want to spend £40 right now but if I wait too long, the Series 1 cards will either increase further in price or become even harder to find at any price. They are a superseded Series of Linear Flash card after all. (Most hosts would be happy to work with Series 1, 2 or 2+)I shall advise whether the card works with the Radiance 1 once it arrives and I have tested it.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2024, 10:26:27 pm
content: Yeah the cards are pricey now. The one I was looking at was $100usd. And yeah honestly not too large of a price to pay given the fact your other Radiance 1 wasn't broken at all and now works

author: cynfab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2024, 12:44:47 pm
content: Can your efforts use an Intel Series 2 card? I have a few 10MB ones iMC010FLSA-20 M9418008 that I could make available.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2024, 05:01:19 pm
content: Hi Cynfab,Thank you for the kind offerSadly it is the series 1 cards that are needed as without changing the PCMCIA port PAL chip programming from V1.0 to V1.1 the camera will not communicate with Series 2 cards. The challenge facing us is in finding vintage Series 1 cards or copying my V1.1 PAL chip. Whilst such is possible, I have not got the spare time at the moment to ‘play’.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 11:46:57 am
content: Yesterday I tested both of my Radiance 1 cameras with UserMenu 3 and RTOOLS. I can confirm that RTOOLS works with the Radiance 1 but it is worthy of note that the installation offers separate Galileo/Radiance HS and Radiance 1 camera driver options. The user manual states that the two drivers are for the different bit patterns used by the cameras. I tried a 3rd party Radiance HS control program and, whilst it found the camera, it’s commands were ignored by the Radiance 1. I have yet to get UserMenu even seeing the camera ! Of note is the fact that UserMenu uses Com 2 serial port by default and whilst it is supposed to use Com 1 if started with “UserMenu 1”, this does not work and it still tries to open Com 2. I tried all sorts of command variations to get it to use Com 1 but failed. I had a laptop that could assign Com 2 to its hardware serial port via the BIOS but that did not work either. It is such a pity as UserMenu appears to offer a lot of useful utilities. I spent a whole day using various software and computers with the Radiance 1 and made some discoveries along the way. RTOOLS is the only software that would work with my two Radiance 1 cameras. I now have my original Series 1 PCMCIA card installed in the second Radiance 1 that has the V1.0 PAL configuration. I installed a nice Pretec 2MB Series 2+ card in my original camera and it is working fine with that thanks to its V1.1 PAL configuration.Once I had RTOOLS working with the two cameras, I carried out NUC procedures for the 4 NUC memory locations. All went as expected and this corrected a “soft error” indication (normally configuration or calibration related) that had been present on the original Radiance 1 (flashing yellow temperature LED even when at operating temperature). The NUC used the internal temperature reference flag so was not as accurate as using an external large area Blackbody source, but it was good enough for my tests. The internal flag is heated and cooled using a Peltier module and has limited temperature range WRT ambient temperature. This can cause issues if a NUC temperature set point is too far away from Ambient for the Peltier to achieve within the preset timeout period. After an NUC process is completed I was able to check the Dead Pixel map details that were created from the NUC tests. I thought I had a bug in the NUC process as the original camera had over 1000 dead pixels ! After completing the same process on the second camera I saw only 49 dead pixels. Oh dearI experimented with NUC settings on the original camera but, sure enough, it has around 1000 pixels that are either non functional, twinkling or out of acceptable tolerance range. For my needs this is no great drama, but still a pity. The second camera sensor array is in great condition and working well. The 49 dead pixels were the worst case scenario with other NUC ranges show far fewer.When checking the cameras cooler hours I found that the original camera has less than 2000 hours on it but there is an anomaly with the hours counter on the second camera. It is indicating Millions of hours and many thousands of power cycles. This is likely the result of random data in the battery backed memory IC. Sadly the hours counter may have been lost when the Lithium battery died. I do not know how to reset that counter yet but it is not greatly important as the original data is lost.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 02:49:50 pm
content: Yeah my theory is that the first few bytes of the hex command structure tells the software what camera it is. If we can sniff the hex commands when you push buttons in the RTools software you can prob figure it out. Hopefully we can compare this to usermenu 3 and see if there is any similar in the hex commands.I have the same issue with the cooler hours for the second camera. No idea how to reset it either.Also I think I have the blinking temp bug for my original Radiance 1 (It reteaches temp but keeps blinking yellow). How did you fix it?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 03:04:50 pm
content: From reading the user manual I believe the blinking yellow “Temperature” LED is indicating a non critical “soft error”. That is an error in the way the camera has been configured or an error in the calibration. I did not set out to correct that error, it was corrected whilst I carried out the NUC process on the 4 memory areas. It just suddenly stopped blinking ! I have to wonder whether there was a corruption in one of the stored NUC tables that was overwritten with valid data during the new NUC creation process.Also worthy of note…… The 2 point NUC process available on the cameras side panel or via the PC software will update the dead pixel map by adding any new dead pixels that it finds. It does not create a complete new dead pixel map ! If an NUC update leaves some dead pixels visible it is recommended that the 2 point NUC is run again (without deleting the previous map so that it is an additive process) in an effort to capture them. Adjustments may also be made in the PC software to fine tune the dead pixel capture settings. In order to create a brand new fresh dead pixel map, the user needs to delete the dead pixel map for a specific, or all, NUC memories using the PC software option for such. A fresh complete dead pixel map will be captured during the next 2 point NUC process. This must then be repeated for each NUC memory position that had its dead pixel map erased. It might be useful to create a fresh new dead pixel map sometimes in case any corruption has occurred in the data that would benefit the camera by being “flushed out” with a new map.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 03:13:19 pm
content: Nice this is very good info. I have cameras that have a few stubborn dad pixels (merlin). I am going to try to get rid of them using my blackbody calibrator and the process you mentioned.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 03:32:34 pm
content: You can fine tune the pixel output tolerance and “Twinkling pixel” detection to capture borderline pixels. It is not 100% effective on my original camera though. The manual explains that this is because the pixels either side of the dead pixel are used as the references so more than one dead pixel positioned together can cause problems. Then you are into manual pixel deletion but that uses H and V pixel co-ordinates for a problematic pixel. RDAC can provide the H and V co-ordinates.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 03:46:13 pm
content: Nice, yeah that makes sense. I've done manual bad pixel corrections before on uncooled cameras within FLIR's old web gui so I am familiar with the H and V co-ordinates.

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2024, 10:06:24 pm
content: The Galileo/Radiance HS and Radiance 1 require different initialization. While the camera lineup are similar, there are fundamental differences in them. The HS was intended for higher speed collections and more robust electronics overall. Note that the HS core electronics is completely sealed and cooled by convection ... it's built like a tank. The Radiance 1 was cheaper and more of a 'thermography' camera. Cheaper in this context is subjective ... 75K to 100K vs. 125K to 150K depending on options.Note that the Radiance 1 has a fan with an inlet in the front to cool the electronics. While you can get raw digital data over the SCSI type connector, it was not that cameras main utilization. Additionally it has the side buttons to control but the HS needs a PC or an external control box.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 06:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on June 20, 2024, 08:07:04 pmI was able to get another card. Not exactly the same as my original intel one but one by AMD and it has the same chip I believe (28F010)I was able to read my original card and copy the common.pcc and the attribute.pcc and copy them to the new card's common and attribute sectors respectively.I put it in my Radiance 1 and the camera booted up with it's normal LED's and Beeps.So as long as you can get Intel Series 1 (28F010) cards you can revive a Radiance 1 missing its Linear Flash Card. Or just simply to have a backup.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 08:12:50 pm
content: Thanks for this newsMy Intel Series 1 card is still making its way to me from the USA at a snails paceIt sat in a USPS parcel consolidation centre for 8 days ! I was not aware that the Attribute memory was needed. My original camera works with a copy of the Common memory and no Attribute memory present. In fact I do not recall the original flash card having attribute memory.I am surprised to see an AMD flash card using Intel 28F10 memory IC’s as the AMD cards that I have all use AMD 29Fxx series IC’s but, sure enough, the AMD data book confirms 28F10 IC’s in your card.Hopefully the Intel Series 1 card that is on its way to me will also be compatible with the ‘fussy’ Radiance 1 camera.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 08:21:31 pm
content: Yeah I think your theory with the Intel Series 1 is correct. So it should work.And yeah I wasn't sure if attribute was needed but after reading my card it contained both sectors. I think the firmware 3.0 you sent me a while back had both as well.I have an Omnidrive like you and in PC Card manager it is pretty easy to copy files to both common and attribute sections. (Basically two tasks) I also checked the erase checkbox when copying to the new AMD card.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 09:32:44 pm
content: Yes I recall saving the original card contents in both Common and Attribute mode. All of the LF cards that I have tried did NOT have attribute memory fitted. Could it be that the ‘Fussy’ cameras need certain information in the attribute memory in order to use the card ? If that were the case, it might be possible to use Series 2 cards that contain Attribute memory ? Sadly I cannot test this theory as I do not have suitable cards. I will look at my saved images of the original card to see if I can make any sense of the attribute memory.You could try erasing the attribute memory on your new card to see if the camera still accepts the card.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 09:51:43 pm
content: I just checked my backup files for the original Amber linear flash card. Both the “Common” and “Attribute” versions of the backup are the same. Either I accidentally saved the common file area twice, or my card has no attribute memory and so just the Common area contents were saved.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2024, 10:30:10 pm
content: That is interesting. Yeah I will try just flashing just the common.pcc to the card later today. Hopefully it only needs the common sector so it allows for more compatibility with other cards.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 12:19:34 am
content: Alright I erased the card and only copied over the common.pcc over this time. And it works!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2024, 09:31:21 am
content: GreatSo it is the Series 1 card type that is the key to success.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 12:47:58 am
content: An interesting read on Camera Link and the switch from RS-422, LVDS, and Cypress Hotlink:https://www.vision-systems.com/cameras-accessories/image-sensors/article/16738481/camera-link-standarda-necessity

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 01:06:59 am
content: 2003 ... thanks for the blast from the past. dealing with that change over to CameraLink from mostly RS422 / LVDS was very challenging. heck, even the firewire 'fad' was a fight on several fronts. We had cable runs of 100 to 150 feet using several cameras and several digital formats. Lots of PC with different capture cards. The conversion over to fiber and back was a welcome change in just the shear weight of cables but had massive drawbacks with how fragile it could be. Always had lots of backups when we went on data collections.Only thing I do miss is the separate COM lines and connector. Cameras now have everything over USB, GigE, or CameraLink. Makes troubleshooting a pain.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 01:18:20 am
content: Wow that is definitely an interesting experience you had, I was too young to even comprehend any of those interfaces in 2003. And yes everything now a days are the three you mentioned (USB, GigE, or CameraLink) as well as CoaXPress (CXP). I forgot which video I saw but they explained that CXP made everything easier as in the field the camera link interface was sensitive to dirt and dust. Having one coax BNC cable is a lot easier.The new science cameras from FLIR have all of the mentioned interfaces (I'm guessing for maximum compatibility with existing systems)https://www.flir.com/instruments/science/next-generation-x-series/

author: IR_Geek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 02:21:29 am
content: it was a love / hate. Getting it all figured out took a while but it was usually robust unless a cable was cut. Never had issue with dirt on cameraLink. Nor fiber for that matter. I was treated with a lot of care.Another one that is rampant in broadcast is HD-SDI. While it's mostly 'video', the digital data is there if you have a capture card. Picked up an ExpressCard from ImperX and used it on occasion.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 02:48:00 am
content: I am currently researching hotlink. I believe the Galileo/Radiance HS uses it. It not all too important on this camera however on other cameras it is the only option available such as the FLIR Prism DS:https://www.designnews.com/motion-control/thermal-imaging-goes-digital(This article is even older 1995)"We've got two ways to get digital data out. One is to store them on the removable PCMCIA card; the other is to hook up a monitor to the camera in real time," Causley explains. "You'd opt for real-time, 12-bit data for fast events that you want to capture with high accuracy, such as a plasma, explosions, or charcoal igniting."A third option: Use the video output and image capture simultaneously. The camera's multipurpose, 44-pin DIN connector makes this possible. The connector implements three serial ports for calibration, interrogation, and remote control; the power connection; and the high-speed serial digital link. The digital link lets users take real-time digital video off the camera and convert it to real-time imagery on a PC."To save space, FLIR decided to adopt a serial digital link rather than the more traditional parallel digital link. "If we did it in parallel, it would take 34 wires instead of four," claims Causley.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2024, 03:03:17 am
content: An update on my Galileo v1.53 Camera. I was able to successfully Flash the firmware from V1.53 to V1.58 and it was definitely worth it. Was a nerve-racking 5 minutes but all blocks were erased and then flash word by word (2 Bytes) successfully.The 1.58 firmware is way better with communicating with the TWI software. Also performing NUCs were a lot less buggy. One thing that seemed like a fail was the symbology. Originally it was just blank and there were jail bar lines as a place holder. After reading the 1.51 release notes I was able to re-create the symbology:2.3 Video SymbologyCONTROP supports sixteen (16) displayable symbology boxes, separatelydefinable by Usermenu. An example of a suggested configurationappears in Table 2-2. The boxes, their text colors, sizes,placements are all programmable via the Usermenu options and aredescribed below. The Symbology is overlayed on the video andcontains information regarding status of the camera. The fieldsavailable for display in symbology boxes and their descriptions areshown in Table 2-1 Symbology Fields.TABLE 2-1-1 Invalid Box displays no information0 Displays an internal counter (eg. not used)1 Active NUC2 AGC On/Off status3 LUT type4 Gain5 Offset6 Image/Normalization status7 FPA status - hot, norm, or cold8 Flag temperature from last read9 Maximum Gain - Either MAX gain or user defined10 Cooler status11 Zoom status12 Image state - live or frozen13 Protocol - Usermenu or CONTROP14 Baud Rate read as an index number0 = 300 BAUD 1 = 600 BAUD 2 = 1200 BAUD3 = 2400 BAUD 4 = 4800 BAUD 5 = 9600 BAUD6 = 19.2K BAUD 7 = 38.4K BAUD15 Software Version numberTABLE 2-2Symbology Display Box Location ParametersBox # Index X-pos Y-pos # Lines # Characters0 -1 ( not used )1 1 530 16 1 102 2 530 54 1 103 3 530 92 1 104 4 530 130 1 105 5 530 168 1 106 6 530 206 1 107 7 530 244 1 108 8 530 280 1 109 9 530 320 1 1010 10 530 358 1 1011 11 530 396 1 1012 12 530 434 1 1013 13 16 450 1 1814 14 180 450 1 1815 15 384 450 1 18The following paragraphs discuss each of the Usermenu menu selections.The user either selects the two-letter mnemonic or the numericalindex located with each menu item, i.e., entering "ES" in the SymbologyGalileo Usermenu sub-menu would cause the Symbology to be erased if itcurrently was being displayed.0) Erase SymbologyA selection of Erase Symbology will erase the video symbology screen.If the symbology is enabled, the update task may add text to the screen.The effect will be a line of text with no enclosing box.1) Enable SymbologyThis function allows all the enabled symbology boxes to be output tothe video. If a particular box has not been enabled using EnableSymbology Display Box, it will not appear.2) Disable SymbologyThis function removes all the symbology from the video output.3) Symbology StatusThis menu item allows the user to check the reporting status of thesymbology, whether it is on or off.4) Enable Symbology Display BoxThe symbology for each box (indexed 0-15) must first be enabled for itto be displayed which is accomplished with this command. The secondindex parameter that is prompted in this function requires the indexnumber of the text that the user wants displayed in the box beingenabled. The index numbers to the possible text items are shown inTable 2-2. Following a disabling of a specific symbology box, are-enabling of that box is required in order for it to bere-displayed.5) Disable Symbology Display BoxDisables the symbology display box. This removes the box from thesymbology display.6) Set Box ColorsIt is recommended that no changes be made to the current setups fortext color with the NTSC video format. The colors are intended to beused with S-video format.The following indicates the color associated with its index number:Index Color0 Transparent1 Black2 Red3 Green4 Blue5 Cyan6 Magenta7 Yellow8 Dark Grey9 Medium Grey10 Light Grey11 White12 Text-white13 User Color 114 User Color 215 User Color 3The default parameters for setting the colors of the text box are:color index text 12color index background 8color index border 107) Set Box ParametersThis function allows the user to change the size of the box (inconjunction with the Set Box Location and Size and the indexed textselection) by selecting the pixel count for the following parameters:upper text border 4lower text border 4left text border 4right text border 4text justification 21 = left justified,2 = centered,3 = right justifiedThe text border is the number of pixels between the edge of the textand the enclosing border.8 ) Set Box Location and SizeThis function allows the user to place the symbology display boxes onthe video output screen. The current boxes with their associatedtext are numbered (indexed) as noted in Table 2-1. Currently theboxes are set up with only 1 line of text and a width of 10characters. The user selects the Set Location and Size function wherethe following parameters may be modified in the order presented:x positiony positionNumber of lines (in order to support text)Number of characters (in text)(x,y) SCREEN COORDINATE SYSTEM0,0 640,0+--------------------------------------------+| || || || || || || || || || |+--------------------------------------------+0,482 (NTSC) 640,4820,512 (PAL) 640,512

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 04:19:44 pm
content: The “Series 1 Linear Flash card” arrived from the USA whilst I was away and I have just tested it.I was sent an Eiger EPM2000F 2MB card and advised that it is a Series 1 card.I Analyzer the card and it is an Intel chipset card that uses the 28F020 memory IC’s. I immediately thought that this could be an issue as it is not using 28F010 IC’s……. And I was right. The programmed card does not work in my fussy Radiance 1 cameraPictures attached.

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 04:31:54 pm
content: Darn that's a bummer. This is the one I bought:https://www.ebay.com/itm/126430989089I got the exact model being afraid that I might run into that issue.And comparing the two chips28F01028F020I'm guessing the 1 vs 2 has to do with the card size? Could be wrong thoughDoes it work with your other Radiance 1? Not sure if you want to order another card given that you can get both cameras running fine at the moment.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 05:15:21 pm
content: I confirmed that the card is indeed a series 1 and the 28F020 uses a 256K x 8bit architecture Vs the 128 x 8bit architecture of the 28F010.The fussy Radiance 1 truly is fussy about its LF card ! The card works fine in the other camera (my original unit). From our experiences here it would appear important to use a Series 1 card that uses the 28F010. I am using the card from my original camera in the fussy unit and a series 2 card in the more promiscuous camera. I just wanted a spare programmed series 1 card.Fraser

author: MrSheep
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2024, 06:21:12 pm
content: Ah ok that makes sense. Yeah doesn't hurt to have a spare. Although they seem really robust given that our original cards still work.Btw after looking through the manual of the Radiance 1 and the functions of Usermenu. It seems like the GUI provided by RTools covers most if not all the functionality for the Radiance 1.I am slowly but surely figuring out the command structure. It was necessary to do since you have to rebuild the Symbology menu when flashing firmware in the Radiance HS/Galileo Cameras.I think next steps are for me are to use a second com port to monitor the RS232 commands coming out of the front port of the Radiance HS/Galileo to see what kind of commands are being sent to the lens (both DFOV and TFOV). I know the DFOV is well documented for their commands but I have even more commands that we can try that were not previously mentioned on this forum. The options were found when I was looking at the diagnostic menu of Usermenu version 3.00