Judge tosses lawsuit against Toyota over rats gnawing on car wiring - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Homer J Simpson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 10:36:20 am
content: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/07/06/toyota-wins-rats-vehicle-wires-soybean/757506002/

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 11:13:07 am
content: Is that a new way for car manufacturers to lessen the lifetime of the car and earn more service money by making parts of the car attractive and eatable by animals ?

author: OE2WHP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 11:29:41 am
content: Well, not an exactly new problem. Even without edible material martens cause 15k roadside incidents and 65 million Euros damage every year in germany by chewing and ripping hoses and cables.https://jalopnik.com/how-cute-ferret-like-animals-cause-germany-65-million-1788013196

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 11:32:21 am
content: Animal chewing in plastics / rubber is not a new problem. There were rodents eating telephone cables as they where attracted by one component (softener AFAIR). Its also no not only rodents, but also the Beech_martenhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech_marten#Car_damageAFAIK this not because the cars smell like food but they are nice warm hiding places and they don't like the smell of a rival.It kind of a positive surprise that US court actually dismissed a stupid consumer claim against a foreign company.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 11:38:31 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 06, 2018, 11:13:07 am...and more "green", aka biodegradable, so you'll have to buy them more often...

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 05:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on July 06, 2018, 11:38:31 amThat's the main concern, you'd have to put repellent in stuff to keep rodents away, but if the wiring just rots away in a year because it's made of crap...EDIT: I will ROFL if some cleaner chemicals people use on there cars disintegrate this crap more readily than normal wiring...

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 08:52:11 pm
content: I have seen at least one source claim that it isn't flavor or smell that attracts rodents to wiring, it is just the right density/toughness to let them get their required gnawing in. Their teeth grow continually and if their food sources or whatever don't provide enough wear the teeth will grow right through the other side of the mouth.Now we have another requirement on insulation. It has to be flexible enough to bend, soft enough to cut for stripping, tough enough to protect against wear and also not good for rodent tooth maintenance. Oh and by the way resistivity, permitivity and chemical resistance matter too. Unobtainium anyone?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 09:08:42 pm
content: Or, or, or or maybe, stop stupid lawsuits USA.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 09:11:10 pm
content: I wonder if they could add something like this:Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DenatoniumAlthough this specific compound is supposedly not too effective against rats compared to humans.

author: exit_failure
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 09:35:22 pm
content: Rodents (here in Europe its mostly martens) eating though car wiring is a decades-old problem. They are using biopolymer insulated wiring for about 15 years now and yes, a German study finds that the number of cars damaged by martens gnawing on wiring has gone up 33% in the last 10 years.In the same time, the number of cars registered in Germany has also increased by 15%.Also martens once were bred for fur production. When that went out of fashion a lot of the farmers breeding them just set them free.(I was thinking about nutrias.) In the past, martens were hunted for their fur. A few decades ago fur and with that hunting martens went out of fashion. They were able to multiply uncontrollably since then because we have practically no predators here that would decimate their numbers. The growing population also mean that they don't find enough food in the wilderness any more. This means that they have to go to more densely populated areas, where there are more cars.The reason why they are drawn to engine compartments, is the simple fact that they are a warm and relatively safe place to hide in. I myself found half eaten dead birds and even a plastic bag with food leftovers that were dragged in by martens in my engine compartment.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 08:19:07 am
content: Quote from: amyk on July 06, 2018, 11:38:31 am1991-96 Mercedes Engine Wiring Failure Alert: Models and Years Affected:

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 09:38:37 am
content: I've replaced many rodent-damaged sections of coaxial, alarm and telephone cables in a number of properties. I can't recall ever replacing Cat6(A) with this kind of damage.Squirrels mean business too.Perhaps instead of (or in addition to, if necessary) soybean-based coating, they could use extract of bhut jolokia or capsicum chinense extract.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 11:53:18 am
content: This used to be a huge problem in Germany and these rodents were eating anything rubber or silicone in the engine compartments of all types of cars and models.These days, cars have covers so tight, that rodents can not get in to the engine compartments any more.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 11:58:31 am
content: Thenew and improvedsoy based biodegradable wire insulation has now made it tasty for critters.

author: WA1ICI
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 04:32:20 pm
content: Shortly after I purchased a Lexus ES300h, I started noticing mouse droppings inside the car. Finally, one day I opened the trunk and found the whole family running around! I live in rural Nevada (high desert) and park outside under a carport. I had heard stories that Toyota had changed to soy-based foam for the seats, and that this attracted rodents. An acquaintance reported that mice had eaten the inside of her Prius seats and cost her thousands of dollars.I looked for entry points, but was unsuccessful. However, a friend mentioned that animals don't like the smell of fabric softener sheets - the kind you throw into your dryer to soften clothes. I purchased a box of these with a "Mountain Breeze" smell, distributed some sheets under the seats and put the open box into the trunk. Total success! After about two years, I noticed the turds again, so replaced box of fabric softener sheets, and no more turds.I'm not sure how this will solve under-hood damage (which, luckily, I don't have), but certain odors definitely deter rodents.- John Atwood

author: frozenfrogz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 05:02:08 pm
content: Isn’t Toyota the company advertising with something along the lines of "the car that never breaks down"?I have a vast memory of a couple of commercials that were spun this way...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 05:17:57 pm
content: Volvo used wiring with biodegradable insulation in the mid 80s, unfortunately it degraded much faster than expected when exposed to high temperature and/or oil. I had a 1987 740 that I had to replace the whole engine wiring harness because of that. The car died and when I cut open the main harness with all the injection and ignition wires that ran under the intake manifold, it was a bundle of bare wires in a sleeve full of dust and bits, it's amazing the car ran at all.On the topic of rodents, I had a rat chew on my alternator drive belt which then snapped while I was on the road, thankfully close enough to a friend's business that I could get there to fix it. I know exactly what happened because I found the rat cooking on the engine block.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 07:45:15 pm
content: Snakes also like it in engine bays, not just rodents.

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2018, 11:37:20 pm
content: Quote from: frozenfrogz on July 07, 2018, 05:02:08 pmThe Hilux used to have that reputation, and there was an episode of Top Gear where they quite literally gave it a bash. New ones are not as good anymore. Too much cheap rubbish, and too much technology in modern cars = more shit that goes wrong. I would hate to see what would happen if a rat chewed a sensor cable in a driverless car.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2018, 12:24:38 am
content: Don't worry, there won't be driverless cars in a lonnng time.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2018, 03:30:24 am
content: My other half has a 17 year old Prius that has been astonishingly dependable, I've replaced consumables like brakes and fluids and lightbulbs but otherwise absolutely nothing has broken, ever.I shudder at the thought of having to fix it if/when something really does go wrong though, it is an absurdly complex machine with very little in-depth service information.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2018, 11:53:54 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on July 06, 2018, 09:08:42 pmHeey! What a good idea!

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 12:04:51 am
content: Quote from: MT on July 08, 2018, 11:53:54 pmBelieve me, there are plenty of us here in the USA that roll our eyes at each of the silly lawsuits that pops up. It only takes a few idiots to make us all look like fools.

author: Don Hills
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 09:13:07 am
content: Quote from: WA1ICI on July 07, 2018, 04:32:20 pmThe place where ventilation air comes into your car is fairly obvious, but have you ever looked to see where it goes out?

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 10:12:29 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 06, 2018, 09:11:10 pmI could do with Denatonium laced hookup wires to stop me stripping them with my teeth when I leave my strippers on the other side of the office...

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 10:37:12 am
content: Quote from: james_s on July 09, 2018, 12:04:51 amAlthough I am not very familiar with your judicial system from the statistics it is shown that the financial compensations rewarded are orders of magnitude larger than in the European system. I am not sure if this has to do with the jury system , I am not even aware if they award the final settlement but the difference is striking.The result is ofcourse that for some people it looks like a lottery, if you win you are settled and the side effect is that attorney's would take on more no cure no pay cases.So I do not want to go into whats better discussion but it seems it is a side effect of your system.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 12:58:47 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on July 06, 2018, 08:52:11 pmTrue;my daughter had a pet rabbit and would chew at anything.He was kept overnight in the laundry room, and anything plastic would be promptly chewed.I would throw spare cables to keep him happy.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 02:11:20 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 09, 2018, 12:04:51 amYes the rest of the world already knows that, thats why we say US is the laughingstock of the planet!Unfortunately there is a side effect to that since the rest of the world also have its share of fools and morons!

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 02:38:20 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 09, 2018, 10:37:12 amUSA system is not a democracy rater a one party two branch privileged corporation pay'd and run by oligarchs, thats why more and more Americans is waking up realizing the amendments is jack shit worth in the mind of psychopathic oligarchs. Whats going on are by some interpreted as try for a domestic cleansing procedure , how it will end nobody knows some even speak of a civil war and collapse of the federation in the long run! Dumpf and Killary is just symptoms of the disease and not a cure.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 03:19:05 pm
content: Quote from: MT on July 09, 2018, 02:38:20 pmFake news!(we are missing a DT icon here)

author: X
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 03:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on July 09, 2018, 12:58:47 pmMake sure the cables have 24-carrot gold plated connectors.

author: aargee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2018, 05:18:15 am
content: Back when I was young () in the '70s, a mate of mine got violently ill.Couldn't figure out what from until they found out he was stripping re-used Telecom (now Telstra) phone cable with his teeth when building projects - apparently it was laced with rat poison back then to stop the rodents making a meal of the cable. Now they just add chemicals to make it taste horrible to the little critters (and my mate, no doubt).

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2018, 10:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 09, 2018, 10:37:12 amPoint taken, but believe me, those huge settlements are far rarer than the news would have you believe. Also they are usually well justified. Judges and juries don't give out huge amounts of money for nothing.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2018, 11:50:18 pm
content: Often I think the huge sums are chosen to punish a company, rather than because the award is justified to the recipient. I can think of very few cases where someone's personal loss or suffering is worth tens of millions of dollars. People suffer horribly all the time and don't get squat for it when there isn't someone with deep pockets to blame.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2018, 12:12:26 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on July 09, 2018, 03:19:05 pmYes, everything is fake news! Even the fake news is fake news!<----- a CIA dude!