3D PCB Printer on Kickstarter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:19:06 pm
content: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cartesianco/the-ex1-rapid-3d-printing-of-circuit-boardsFrom Australia too!

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:34:42 pm
content: Print copper on an empty PCB ?Does it work? What does it cost to wireprint a 10cmx10cm PCB?Tyred of that kind of video producers on Kickstarter.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:40:51 pm
content: It's actually a very good and cost effective ideaIt may have problem with reliabilty of the printed pcb with stress and soldering.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2013, 10:57:37 pm
content: Doubt how cost effective it is as it prints with some kind of silver ink. Track resistance also should be awful. IMHO it is only good if you want to print on some specific material, not for regular PCBs.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 06:04:38 am
content: Time cost! More than silver!!!

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 06:25:43 am
content: How about if someone just took the ink and refilled an empty inkjet cartridge?Just fill the red part with the one part, and fill the blue part with the other and do your design in purple and they'll mix.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 07:36:15 am
content: Well, you can order a lot of 4 layer PCB for 1500 USD. OK, it is not printed on exotic materials, but are those materials good for soldering? How much time before that solder joint breaks? We dont know running costs either. You need to drill the material also, if it is TH. And usually circuits are more complicated than silly 555 and a bunch of resistors and LEDs. But make no mistake, I am actually happy that someone is working on this technology.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 08:19:17 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 12, 2013, 06:25:43 amThis has been attempted before. One guy modified Epson inkjet printer heads to print something (I think it was wax of some sort) onto the pcb to form instant etching mask. The guy gave a speech on 27C3. as far as I remember he couldn't solve the problem of wax clogging the nozzles after some time.There are also etch-resistant inks, buy they are expensive.Those guys seems to be using Silver Nitrate and then force silver to percipitate using ascorbic acid. Unless there's some uber-clever trick in it, it's not that expensive. I've seen analysis-grade AgNO3 for 25PLN (~6€) on auction sites.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 08:52:15 am
content: Use an old Tektronix printer. They were designed to print in wax

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 09:24:59 am
content: While i think the idea is awesome and I wish them all the best i just don't see it being that useful when you can get a board made in china for next to nothing and you get all the options, silkscreen/mask/goldplating/multilayer etc.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 10:26:07 am
content: Has anyone figured out yet how this is 3D?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 11:49:50 am
content: Quote from: wraper on November 11, 2013, 10:57:37 pmsilver is better than copper. i checked in wiki yesterday.Quote from: poorchava on November 12, 2013, 08:19:17 amit has been mentioned in the site. read the whole text Ston.Quote from: Psi on November 12, 2013, 09:24:59 amditto. for testing single board prototype real quick, i'll print it. waiting few weeks and paying $70+SH to get 10 boards that i'm not sure are going to work is not nice for me. i hope one day this kind of device will be priced the same as consumer printer.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 01:20:24 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on November 12, 2013, 10:26:07 amThey want to call it 2.5d but people wouldn't have understood that.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 08:29:03 pm
content: If you want the Tek Phasor I have one for free, along with a lifetime supply of black wax cartridges...........Collect only, this thing is close to 50kg.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2013, 10:41:08 pm
content: Where?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 04:22:03 am
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on November 12, 2013, 10:41:08 pmSouth of you a lot. Cross the Med, start driving and when you finally meet the sea again stop and there you will find me.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 07:41:13 am
content: You can print on Pyralux using a Xerox Phasor (the solid models with the color cubes) ... then etch away the copper for your homemade flex-pcb

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 03:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 13, 2013, 04:22:03 amWell and i tought you were in canada

author: con-f-use
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 04:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 12, 2013, 11:49:50 amAnd I asked my witch doctor. He told me, that only applies to solid silver vs. solid copper not some solution of a silver compound. He's a very well versed witch doctor...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 07:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: ddavidebor on November 13, 2013, 03:26:51 pmThought the country flag might have been a give away................Though admittedly you will find a lot of expats in Canada, along with Little Joburg AKA London.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 10:27:03 pm
content: I can't see the flag from this stupid ipad app

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2013, 11:56:20 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 12, 2013, 11:49:50 amI think you would run into a similar problem as I did years ago. We had a component that could not take much heat (could not solder or reflow), and it had to be mounted with conductive epoxy. Conductive epoxy is basically just countless tiny balls of pure silver in an epoxy binder. Sort of like solder paste, but silver balls and epoxy instead of flux.Conductivity is achieved because there are so many particles of silver and some of them touch, forming a conductive path - but the resistance is quite a lot higher than solid copper like on a circuit board.The conductive epoxy is also susceptible to bending, heat, etc.I think this project is innovative, but I don't think see much in the way of practical applications. They talk about making circuits on many new materials. That's great, but if I make a watch band with LED's on cloth, how do I attach the LED's? How reliable is it? I can pay $30 for two proto PCB's and have them in 3 days with high quality soldermask on FR-4. Or I can get a PCB router and cut my own without much intervention, or I can etch and drill myself too. I am not really sure what problem this printer solves?

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2013, 02:04:33 am
content: The price is really high, but they have committed to open sourcing the relevant designs as soon as they start shipping units. So there is potential for a lot of improvement/innovation or reduction in cost.It's a good idea. Yes, you can get standard PCB boards made in only a few days. You can also etch your own in a few hours. But this is even faster and encourages experimentation. It also seems to provide some unique substrate possibilities that probably don't appeal to the majority of people on this forum, but would appeal greatly to the "maker" crowd who are more into general DIY and less into specialized electronics.

author: rafay
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 06:51:48 am
content: Yep indeed a nice development in 3D printer to make more smarter result of papers. This tone is really cool & after launching this new campaign on the kick-starter really to much more crowd funding there.