Is it Better than the Rest of'm MultiSim Blue..It's a Free PCB-ScheCap Tool - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2015, 08:47:59 pm
content: Has anyone any experience with MultiSim Blue Ver 14 (newest) and can say if it is better than Eagle ver 7.5 free or something else would be the better choice?Mouser.com offers it for free.Multisim Blue 14 can do back annotation, someone mentioned that earlier vers (2014) couldn't do it.I want a free software that easily prints out onto film an exact-sized single copper layer in order to expose a UV-sensitive PCB.I just installed Eagle 7.50, loaded the singleside example but I am having trouble finding help on how to delete a via generated by autorouting. It seems to me this should be intuitive and easy, but Eagle allows me to delete the net trace easily(exactly not what I want) and while I can highlight the via, but when I delete it I also delete the wire connection and the net is broken.Also, I am first-time user and I cannot figure out from Help how to select only the layers I want to print, I want to be printing out just the bottom layer by itself to expose a PCB.Maybe Multisim can be better. The most frightening thing about Multisim is that autorouting function on the freeware or even Pro version expires in a year??? If that is the case, I am up a creek, I could waste spending a lotta time learning how to use it and then run into this licensing brick wall.

author: jaxbird
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 04:37:05 pm
content: The concept in Eagle is forced integrity between schematic and board layout, it will do live updates as you switch between them, e.g. add a component/net on schematic and it will show up instantly on the board.So you cannot delete vias or tracks part of a net, instead you need to use the Ripup tool to either rip up a routed section or a whole net or the whole board.Personally I would not use the auto router, it is not that great, but you can try it and if you don't like the result, just execute a Ripup all, reconfigure the auto router and try again.I cannot help you with Multisim Blue.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 04:55:00 pm
content: I still like MultiSim for simple simulations due to the nice editor and the "realtime" possibilities, yet I would not recommend it for larger projects.Be aware that the file format is proprietary - so if Mouser decides to withdraw the free license, you can't open your own projects anymore.This could happen at any time and it happened before with NI MultiSim: when the free NI license was withdrawn, no user of the free version was able to open his/her own project any more - from one day to the other.And of course you can't open NI MultiSim projects or full version MultiSim projects with MultiSim Blue. It's only the other way round: you can open projects created in NI MultiSim or MultiSim Blue in the full commercial version of MultiSim, but price wise it's quite a bit out of scope for hobbyists.If you want an intuitive schematics/layout program, try the free version DipTrace.

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 07:03:44 pm
content: A thousand thanks to Oxdeadbeef and jaxbird.The idea that I could have my hobby project work withheld from me by Multisim for a king's ransom is a nightmare.The licensing thing with Eagle still baffles me. Their website says the FreeWare Version can be used indefinitely.The downloaded manual says a FreeWare License will run out in 30-days, but the version I downloaded was FreeWare and I choose to install it as Freeware, but it instead reveals itself to be the purchasable Eagle Light and so..I am wondering, as they say with autorouting, if I am coming or going!I visited the DipTrace website and they say their FreeWare version for Win32 license expires in 30-days.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 07:08:00 pm
content: Without checking the current license conditions, I would assume that you can consider the download a full license demo which falls back to the free license after 30 days or so.

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 07:14:49 pm
content: Thanks Oxdeadbeef,What is confusing about this is that I could have downloaded the PRO version and it clearly says the license would expire in 30-days. All versions seem to be the same install file, but the version I show installed 7.50 is the Light version!

author: 3roomlab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 07:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: SuzyC on December 13, 2015, 08:47:59 pmi hear from users there is a component limit for bluethe old analog devices version is good, but i only use it for simulationfor PCB its eagle/kicad

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 10:07:23 pm
content: Both EAGLE and DipTrace have freeware editions, there are limits one has board size, the other has pin count, Mousers blue is NI Multisim, and RS Design Spark is essentially easy PC from number one systems / westdev, neither "professional" counterparts will open each others, although I understand if you bought a full ver of Easy PC or Pulsonix, the company supplying the software (in the UK anyway) will convert a number of DesignSpark designs for you as an initial "sweetner" not sure if NI Multisim distributors offer a similar service?

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2015, 11:25:35 pm
content: Thanks to all.The DipTrace program works fairly well, but with SMD work, especially with HF SMPS layouts, I end up mostly not creating any PCB traces but instead I wire it all together with just rectangular fills for the best HF performance, but DipTrace forces me each time to go to a second level dropdown menu to select placing a polygon fill.DipTrace has a clumsy problem with polygons, other than rectangular shapes which are easy to work with, (though I haven't tried Eagle to do the same thing), and once they are created they are difficult to select and move or reshape by mouse, otherwise looks promising. Took me several hours to layout and fine tune a SOT23-6 SMPS circuit with only 9 components.Eagle seems to have a steep learning curve, while DipTrace is very intuitive..I didn't have to use help once. With Eagle, the Help menus are helpless for almost everything but the most simple tasks. I had to search the web to find the help I needed from forums etc. This is time consuming!Board limitation is less a problem with a modular design, so this type of limitation favors Eagle. With DipTrace (even with a modular approach to design of a project) pin counts can add up fast. Each cap and resistor adds two pins and 300-pins Max is a small budget to play with.I haven't even tried Multisim because of fear of their licensing policies that could leave me high and dry.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 12:33:46 am
content: Quote from: SuzyC on December 14, 2015, 07:03:44 pmAnother consideration is that the software has a "free-as-in-beer" limit of X thingies, and that - when 99% of the way through your design - it turns out to have X+1 thingies.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 01:47:08 am
content: Quote from: SuzyC on December 14, 2015, 11:25:35 pmThere's a free non-profit version with 500 pins. You just need to write them an e-mail.http://diptrace.com/buy/non-profit/

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 11:34:33 am
content: The other alternatives are RS Design Spark, which, if you can get on with it works quite well, and KiCAD. Have you tried either of these?

author: SuzyC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2015, 05:16:12 pm
content: Thaniks Wilsey,II haven\t had time to try either RS or KiCad yet. In one day I tried both Eagle and Diptrace, that's enough xmas tree balls to shine in one day.Who would say which one is the better to try first?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2015, 01:53:26 am
content: It's a difficult one, personally I use Altium and Eagle at work, gone from Eagle to KiCAD at home, and now I have started to look at using it for work related stuff, I have never had much of an issue going between packages, I have tried most of them available and I guess it's down to personal preference.Some people find using KiCAD difficult, some people find using Design Spark not to be very good for various reasons, you really do have to try it, both will have different workflows, much like EAGLE and Diptrace.Both free, no limitations, KiCAD is native on OSX and Linux as well as windows builds, Design Spark is Windows only (probably can run in Wine), likewise Eagle is native to OSX and Linux, but Diptrace is written for Windows (again, can probably run fine with something like Wine), this bothers some people.KiCAD has a stable release now at v4.01 and is being constantly developed, more so than DipTrace and EAGLE, not sure what these guys are doing, not much by the sounds of it.KiCAD has importers and a growing community much like Eagle does.I am still waiting for Dave to upload a new video on KiCAD, it has been rumoured that he will switch to it.