EEVblog #807 - Mailbag - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 12:46:39 pm
content: More MailbagItems from Lithuania & Israel!SPOILERS:JigMod Kickstarter:http://kck.st/1LwT4iAA Breadboarding prototyping systemLumintop Tool AAA Keychain LED Torch/Flashlighthttp://amzn.to/1jr4Nbs1992 Sony Video-8 CamcorderFluke 196 100MHz 1GS/s ScopemeterAnd a security networking chip teardown

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 01:33:07 pm
content: What happened to the Fenix LD01?Don't like the look of that key ring attachment. My bet: The rubber switch will be broken in less than a month.Maybe you could attach the key ring using a zip tie or something.

author: Barny
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 02:08:08 pm
content: A little hint:Old cameras, tablets,.... don't like big SD-cards.They work only with SD cards up to 2GB.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 03:18:17 pm
content: OK, I'm missing something, what is so special about Shermer IL?

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 05:03:17 pm
content: Yup, Ontario was pronounced bang-on! (pop. 14 million, only California, Texas, NY and Florida are bigger). That kick-starter looked novel, he's from my area (what they call Canada's Tech-Triangle). I think I'll have to pay him a visit.. Thanks Dave, you must visit! Ontario's almost as awesome as EEVblog!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 05:09:52 pm
content: Good Stuff Thanks Dave.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 05:25:54 pm
content: No idea ( don't watch TV), so not a clue.As to the rings on the BGA package, they are there as part of the package design, to provide a fixed edge when routing out the layers so they do not peel or delaminate, and then a nice alignment aid for the bonder vision to recognise the ends of the multiple layers when bonding.. The copper planes will be power and ground planes, there as the chip needs high current and having this power and ground plane next to each other with only a thin laminate means the low capacitance is very effective and is very low inductance. Might be only 100pF for the whole set of planes, but the inductance is essentially mostly there from the multiple bond wires feeding the chip. For security there would be another laminate over the whole lot, with a similar one as the lowest laminate layer ( or just one in from a routing layer), with a few traces meandering across and connected to ground and the power rail, and also feeding the standby voltage that keeps the on chip RAM used for program storage alive. One or two microvias will link them at random across the BGA ball area to internal layers, and then to the chip. The power wires will be designed so they will short out to each other when you try to probe, and the traces connect to the die to enable it. Some self destruct ( a lot of high power IO cells connected together in the chip periphery that are normally tristated, and if tampering is detected they are turned on with the high and low side drives turned on so shorting the chip to cook it quickly). Same with the lid, though there you will need to have a connection made with silver loaded epoxy to the top mesh.This chip does not have that, it is a regular ARM processor in a BGA package. No security, as the program resides in the external EEPROM, where it is trivial to read. It just is hot running, so they put the big passive cooler onto the package with a really good adhesive. Then there is 64M of DRAM right next to that for the Linux OS to run in.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 06:37:34 pm
content: Dave,You need to use a small ring, and connect that small ring to your key ring.Don't use the key ring directly.The Maglite flashlights come with such a small ring if you look for an example

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 07:49:16 pm
content: Good to see the JIGMOD has reached its goal!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:21:15 pm
content: the rings int he BGA are the power rings. they bond from the DIE directly to the rings. nothing special.as for the scopemeter : you will find on the bottom of the board, dead center a toeasted sot23-6 power mosfet.that fet is obsolete. it can be replaced by a n FDC666 provided you cut off one of the pins. the mosfet uses a non standard pinout.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:36:37 pm
content: is there really a pcb material between the die and package metal plate in this BGA chip? that sounds terrible from thermal point of view

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 08:40:50 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 12, 2015, 08:36:37 pmThose chips are usually mounted upside down on the PCB that is the chip carrier, the backside of the chip faces the heatsink AMD use to build processors that way.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 09:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 12, 2015, 08:40:50 pmflip chip etc, yes I knowbut in this particular one it looked like the chip Dave ripped open was like the third in the upper row kind:and it looked like the die stayed with most of the chip, then there was a cover of some laminate material ... then we get same llaminate material glued to the rest of the chip still attached to heatsink. So it appears metal window in chip package is completely uselesslook at 34:60 in the video, you can clearly see pcb material between the die and metal plate, there even appear to be some thermal compound on the inside, WTF

author: Xenix
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 11:45:43 pm
content: Shahriar from The Signal Path has made a taredown and repair video on the Fluke 196b...Maybe it will help with the repair

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 01:52:00 am
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on October 12, 2015, 05:03:17 pmAnd just for whatever reason, there's Ontario, CA (Canada) and Ontario, CA (California, USA)

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 01:58:18 am
content: I recognized the package as being similar to what Intel used in the early 2000s for their chipsets like the i810 and VIA used for the VT8286A.Here's a different view of a similarly packaged chip:

author: max666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 02:17:53 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 12, 2015, 09:41:11 pmNo, I think you see it wrong. The die must be right against the metal window, under the white stuff. We don't see the die at all, we see only laminated material of the interposer. Dave separated the laminated fibre gals of the interposer, so we see laminated layers still stuck to the heatsink and a hole in laminated material of the interposer still on the board. I guess the white part in the centre is some material to grout the bond wires, but I have no idea how they bond those chips, I know nothing about that.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:20:49 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 13, 2015, 03:05:58 amI must be culturally deprived I don't even know who John Hughes is.

author: leroy_is_brown
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:31:22 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 13, 2015, 03:20:49 amYou might have seen his films though - "The Breakfast Club", "Sixteen Candles", "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", and "Home Alone" ring any bells?

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:34:45 am
content: Quote from: leroy_is_brown on October 13, 2015, 03:31:22 amThey all do but the only one I thought was any good was The Breakfast Club

author: leroy_is_brown
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 03:39:38 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 13, 2015, 03:34:45 amDefinitely my favourite as well.

author: jonwil
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 05:30:39 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 13, 2015, 03:20:49 amJohn Hughes is a guy who owns a lot of car yards in Perthhttp://www.johnhughes.com.au/

author: adcurtin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 06:46:08 am
content: SD cards that are 4GB are rare. Most 4GB cards are SDHC, which is a newer spec. SDHC is from around 2006 (I have a monitor from 2007 that still doesn't do sdhc). That camera said 2002 when powered on, so it is most likely too old to work with SDHC. A 2GB or less SD card should work fine.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 06:56:30 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 12, 2015, 08:36:37 pmMaybe it doesn't generate much heat.

author: Vgkid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 05:01:25 pm
content: That chip breaking like that, sure was interesting.

author: Ampere
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 08:24:35 pm
content: The JigMod looks really interesting. I'll have to keep an eye on that.I would definitely like to see a troubleshoot (or at least a teardown) of the scopemeter. I've never even used a scopemeter let alone seen inside of it.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 09:06:53 pm
content: About JigMod ...Please have a look at the funding trends:https://www.kicktraq.com/projects/electroniclaunchpad/jigmod-electronic-circuit-building-system/Nice ramp-up in the last couple of days. After the presentation in the Mailbag episode. Hmm...

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 11:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 13, 2015, 01:52:00 amYou guys love to copy.. There's Toronto Ontario (you know the 5th largest city on the continent) and then for whatever, there's seven Toronto's south of the border.. What's next? Jigmod will go all American. Sorry, it's not a rant - it's just Canadians like to say sorry (especially during elections..)

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 12:54:59 am
content: Quote from: jonwil on October 13, 2015, 05:30:39 amI wonder if he is like Cal Worthington.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 03:11:01 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 14, 2015, 12:54:59 amWow, that's a blast from the past!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 03:30:07 am
content: Quote from: Len on October 14, 2015, 03:11:01 amI use to enjoy his commercials on the Los Angles stations out here.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 05:16:04 am
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on October 13, 2015, 11:55:58 pmWell there's only like 3 cities anyway in Canada, right? Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal.Wait, 4 ... I forgot Possum Lodge.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 06:44:31 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 14, 2015, 05:28:36 amAnd Sydney, the one in Nova Scotia that is

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 11:43:17 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on October 14, 2015, 06:44:31 am..and 90% of us live under a 1-hour drive away from the USA, just to keep warm.. (we forgot how to build igloo's)

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 03:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: Cliff Matthews on October 14, 2015, 11:43:17 amThat's Cute.I've been to Vancouver, nice place but wow the Sales Tax is a real killer.

author: vlad777
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 06:04:34 pm
content: That 3.3 M pixel camera needs ordinary 2GB card or less .None of these sd HC rubbish.(HC stands for high capacity, I think.)

author: vlad777
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 06:08:24 pm
content: If the head on that sony camcorder doesn't spin, but makes noises, than you have dead caps in the supply.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 03:54:17 am
content: Where did you get the Brymen BM235 from? Brymen nor Google seems to know that model - Nice feature with the continuity triggered backlight, would have a great use in noisy invironments.Is the BM235 the rebadge meter planned?

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 04:52:36 am
content: As a semi retired security professional (health issues) that used to work on those check point firewalls all the time it almost killed me to watch you tear off the chip like that. They were good security appliances back when, at one time they were Ciscos only serous competition. Stable as hell when they were set up good, would run for years without a reboot based on BSD as the main operating system.Not sure even if you did troubleshoot it, you might not have been able to check or confirm it was fixed in the software side.The ones I managed were much bigger, enterprise level beasts.Then I remembered the one long day (26 hours long) that we couldn't figure out the issue. Not even check point could help and it was their update that broke everything. Reversing the change didn't help either.I wanted to rip the firewall out of the rack and do a tear down on it "Office Space" style.CAUTION, THE FOLLOWING VIDEO MAY HAVE LANGUAGE NOT SUITABLE FOR CHILDREN, AND MAY OFFEND OTHERS ALSO.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 05:08:33 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 14, 2015, 03:04:45 pmHealth Insurance, $72/month (everyone qualifies).<end of argument>

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 03:13:40 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on October 15, 2015, 05:08:33 amI pay less here $52.00/mo.But still that is a good deal Y'all have up there.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 07:56:39 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 15, 2015, 03:13:40 pmHuh? We pay nothing in Ontario. ..and we have the Blue Jays headed to the world series too(I've never known why they call it world series when it's just two neighbors playing ball)

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 09:38:23 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 15, 2015, 03:13:40 pmI think you misunderstood. That $72 is for everything, there are no deductibles, no out of pocket bullshit. Things like emergency appendectomy will not put you in debt.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 12:50:04 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on October 15, 2015, 09:38:23 pmI did misunderstand; and I would like to see the list of what is deemed Medically necessary.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 10:24:14 am
content: Quote from: cs.dk on October 15, 2015, 03:54:17 amIs it only me that wonders about the BM235?

author: Greenlight
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 08:26:27 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 12, 2015, 01:33:07 pmWhere is LD01 ?

author: Greenlight
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 01:12:35 am
content: Quote from: Greenlight on October 28, 2015, 08:26:27 amJust curious, I didn't see LD01 but only Lumintop Tool AAA and Thrunite Ti in the video. And with string for the flashlight hole to attached the keyring will be nice as I have similar AAA light like that.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2015, 05:21:19 am
content: Quote from: cs.dk on October 17, 2015, 10:24:14 amYes!