Stereo Microscope - useful magnifying range - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 06:21:47 pm
content: Hey there,I'd like to get a stereo microscope for PCB work.It's hobby stuff, so it's going to be some budget thing.The specs of some of those AmScope things sound nice, and apparently some people on here have been satisfied with some of their stuff, so maybe it's not complete rubbish.I'm open to other brands, of course - especiallyeasier to get ones - in Germany.Now, I've looked at the Amscope SM-1BN, it has continuous zoom, which seems very nice (I don't think I'd like to work with anything that does not have that).But the magnification range is 7x...45xI was told this could be a bit much for a minimum range for PCB work. Would you agree?I have also seen the AmScope SM-1TZ which, according to amazon, starts at 3.5x.But that one is not available at amazon Germany without a super heavy shipping fee (half of the scope's price), unlike the other AmScope which comes "free".There is ebay, but if I don't like the thing and want to send it back, that's gonna be much more of a hassle than with amazon Germany or other shops here.350,- bucks is about as much as I could justify to myself to spend for this ;-) Less is better if I really get what I need.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 07:14:39 am
content: They're possibly the same microscope with different accessories.The head goes from 7x-45x. This will come in different varieties: some have a third port for a camera that you have to "turn off" the left eyepiece in order to use. Some more expensive models have a third port which does interfere with eyepiece, I think they call it Simulfocus or somesuch.With the addition of a lens called a 0.5x Barlow lens which attaches over the main objective, this changes the zoom to 3.5-22.5x. And it also doubles the FOV and the focal distance.Amscope sells different variations of the microscope both with and without these barlow lens(es). You can also buy them separately.So a very expensive model, they might list as 3.5x-90X magnification. This just means it comes with a 0.5x and a 2x Barlow.Yes, I would recommend the 0.5x Barlow for electronics rework/repair/assembly.Also pay attention to the lighting. Some come with LED gooseneck lamp, and some come with LED ring. And there are of course a variety of stand options.With budget of 350, I suspect you have to make some compromises. Your main concern, it seems, is to get a zoom focus head. And a 0.5 barlow. You will probably have to cut some features out, regarding the stand, camera port, or the lighting.Stand: double boom arm means you can swing it around and in/out without adjusting knobs. With a single arm boom, you will have to unlock/lock it to adjust the distance of the head from the stand. The most basic is no boom, at all, which is much cheaper and lighter. If you buy a boom stand, I think you will never want to move the thing; they are pretty heavy. So you would probably want to have dedicated space to use the microscope. But simple stand is much less versatile. I would borderline hate using my microscope without a boom stand with adjustable head angle. (Adjustable head angle effectively gives you several inches of height adjustment for your neck/back regarding seating height and tallness/thickness of object of interest; but adjustable head angle seems to only come on the super heavy double arm boom stand). The stand is going to be your most important decision. The boom stands are very heavy and part of the cost is the shipping. You can't easily upgrade the stand, after the fact. The only reasonable way to buy them is with the microscope as part of the package.You may also need to change height of your chair. You can buy extra long gas ram for standard office chairs. A stereomicroscope is potentially a rabbit hole of sorts. It will change everything (for the better!) if you commit to it, but you have to work around it. It will more than likely be a significant investment in time and space as well as money.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 08:21:28 am
content: 7x is too much to start with imo.Mine is 5x and still too much because it means that you see less of the pcb.This results in:Place parts: you have to look away under the microscope to see where your right hand with the part is move it in the aprox position then return looking through the microscopeSoldering: same move left hand with solder about in place move right hand with iron around the right place then look and that for each part or solderitem.3x would be ideal I think so definitely go for the Barlow.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 10:22:12 am
content: Ah, that clears up some things, thanks!EDIT:Concerning the boom stand... I think I don't even have the space for such a monstrosity.My "EE lab" is a corner in one room of my small 2-room (exatcly 2 rooms total, not bedrooms) apartment.There I have one bench in eevblog DIY style (Dave's video).I have worked with a Leica EZ4 at work, that does not have a boom stand.I'll be working only with rather small PCBs when I need a microscope, currently I can't imagine what I'd need a boom stand for, so I better don't spend money on "maybe need once in 10 years" ;-)I guess I could still sell the whole thing and get another one, should that ever change. Those things don't turn rancid, I guess

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 12:30:08 pm
content: So right now, those two look good, astonishing price on the first one... it's even cheaper than a similar one without light.http://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-inspection-dissecting-zoom-power-stereo-microscope-with-64-led-light.htmlhttp://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-super-widefield-dissecting-zoom-stereo-microscope-144-led-ring-light.htmlLet's say I could find one somewhere without super high shipping (because they import bulk)...A question would be, 144 led vs. 64 led ring, how much does it matter?

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 12:36:46 pm
content: The higher the magnification, the more powerful the light source you will need to see a similar luminescence, with a x45 zoom, you will need something far brighter than for an x10, as for if either light ring is bright enough, comes down to how much lumens they are throwing out.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 01:15:16 pm
content: Ok guys, I ordered the 64led thing directly from them.126 € shipping.But in total, at current eur vs. usd rate, it's still 200€ less than if I ordered at german Amazon...And since the amazon.COM reviews are good, esp. with explicit, detailed reference to SMT work, I'll go for the apparently not huge risk I won't like the thing and have to send it back.The one reviewer at amazon.com mentioned he bought some cheap goose neck led light at Ikea as a complement to the led ring. If that works, well, I won't spend 100 bucks more for about doubling the led count

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 01:28:34 pm
content: I've got the same scope but without the LED ring. You'll be very pleased with it.I've also got 2 x Ikea flex LED lamps fitted to it. I took off their heavy & large bases and screwed them directly to the microscope base.I since found some much brighter LED lamps at officeworks. If I was doing it again I would have used them rather than the Ikea ones (which are sufficient).I also use mine with the base rotated 180° with a heavy metal weight on it to keep it stable. That way large boards sit flat on the work bench and your wrists can sit flush on the table.Buy a 0.5x Barlow lens for it - it doubles both your working height and your field of view.I got mine from Aliexpress for around $20 Australian.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 02:03:36 pm
content: Quote from: DTJ on August 12, 2017, 01:28:34 pmDo you have a link for that?At aliexpress, I only find one 2x for 45 USD for "amscope", no 0.5 one.EDIT:Oh wait!The thing I linked to has a "Packaging list" section, where it says:"One 0.5X Barlow Lens"http://www.amscope.com/3-5x-45x-inspection-dissecting-zoom-power-stereo-microscope-with-64-led-light.htmlIt's apparently included? Not in the one you bought?

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 02:32:31 pm
content: It's the exact same microscope but mine didn't come with a 0.5x Barlow. I purchased through Amscope about 12 months back.Shipping was a killer, the microscope was good value.I saved a few dollars buying the Barlow lens from Aliexpress rather than Amscope.If yours doesn't arrive with one message me and I'll trawl through my old emails to find the supplier link.

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2017, 02:41:36 pm
content: Hehe, okay, thanks!

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2017, 02:14:57 am
content: This is the Barlow lens I grabbed off Aliexpress:https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-Free-Shipping-SZM-0-5X-AUXILIARY-OBJECTIVE-LENS-FOR-STEREO-ZOOM-MICROSCOPE-WD-165mm/2100001_32630790654.htmlEdit - pics of Ikea $15 lights attached.

author: jiophone
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2017, 08:39:17 am
content: Check this One out...https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SM-1BSX-64S-Professional-Microscope-Magnification/dp/B00A15N33KAnd It's much Cheaper also..!!!

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2017, 12:21:18 pm
content: DTJ: Thanks! Nice pics, those Ikea lamps and their lighting look nice, I think an Ikea visit is over due anyway, haven't been there in many years :-Djiophone: Yeah, but it's amazon.com. They don't ship to Germany, we have to use amazon.de, which has this exact model for about 450 EUR (i.e. about 530,- USD currently) *plus* 96 EUR (113,- USD) shipping.So directly ordering at AmScope looked a lot more enticing to me

author: agehall
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2017, 05:51:11 am
content: I use the the version of the IKEA lamps that clamp to things to attach them to my microscope head and even though I have a 144 LED ring-light, they make a lot of difference, so I would recommend everyone to pick up at least one.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2017, 06:54:49 am
content: I like my Ikea lamps.After buying and fitting them I found some much brighter (and whiter) 210 Lumen LED lamps that I'd buy in preference if I was doing it all again. They do cost twice as much as the Ikea ones.https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/brilliant-vega-led-desk-lamp-black-brvegalmbk

author: TinkeringSteve
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2017, 06:24:20 pm
content: Thanks. I don't know that office whatever, don't think we have it here.Was at ikea today.I got 2 of those:http://www.ikea.com/de/de/catalog/products/50315644/only 88lm, but 1 of them seems ok, and if I have 2 *and* the led ring, I hope it will be enough. If not, I'll get something else.I liked that they have a clamp for easy attachment. And no base with PSU, actually it comes with a 7V DC wallwart and ( | o ) jacks that were used here for loudspeakers in the olden days. So I could power them differently, and from one (custom) PSU *if* I ever wanted.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2017, 07:20:04 pm
content: I have an old school Bausch & Lomb stereo microscope, 7x-30x. Is there a barlow that could bring down the magnification? (10x eyepiece and 0.7x-3x body)For lower powers I've generally, and usually just end up wearing, a stereo headband magnifiers, the cheap ones. The only thing I don't like about them is the focus range is a bit close.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2017, 01:13:41 am
content: Quote from: metrologist on August 14, 2017, 07:20:04 pmI'm no expert but if your B&L has a threaded in objective lens (or that lens has a thread on the bottom of it) you can most certainly find a Barlow lens to fit to it.I *think* that having wide field eye piece lenses also helps give you a wider field of view of the PCB). Mine have WF marked on them.I suggest emailing the tech support guys at Amscope.Send them a pic of the front of your microscope and see what they say.They were very helpful giving me a heap of information before I purchased from them.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2017, 08:59:27 pm
content: WF means 10x is the sweet spot, showing the whole picture the objective can make. Going lower than 10x, there is nothing (or not much left) for the eyepiece to capture over the 10x, other than a black ring around the image produced by the objective. So instead of increasing FOV, the viewable area will get smaller. FOV will not necessarily change, at all, as measured in units of distance from one edge of the viewable field to the other. (Going higher in eyepiece mag will decrease fov by showing only part of the image that the objective captures, hence raising the minimum magnification and decreasing max FOV). But there will be no such thing as a "regular" 10x eyepiece. Unless it serves the same purpose of putting blinders on a horse, so you can artificially block out some of your FOV on purpose.The 0.5x barlow will change actual maximum fov (by changing magnification... the viewable area will be same, relative FOV is same, but you can get lower magnification without shrinking the viewable area, unlike by changing to 5x eyepiece). So with 0.5 Barlow, you will get larger FOV commensurate with the lower magnification. But because the focal distance changes, as well, you will need more light at 22x vs 22x without the 0.5 Barlow. At any given magnification, the objective is farther away from the object, thus it does not capture as much light.

author: vipprog
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 01:31:05 am
content: firstly, you can choose stereo zoom microscope for phone motherboard Inspection Repair, but with vag adapter, higher price,

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 05:02:26 am
content: what was interesting is that I stumbled across some Tokina camcorder optics that almost screw onto my Bosch threads. Holding the optics against the body and they seem to work very well, although the 2x seems to act as a 0.5 barlow and the 0.5 WA seems to act as a 2x. I may machine some custom quick-change adapters and put those relics to use. That would greatly enhance the usefulness of my bench scope.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 10:26:38 pm
content: Back in the day Tokina third party zoom lenses were quite good. I still have mine. Which reminds me..You can use old DSLR lenses for macro photography (screwed backwards onto a camera) The part that previously screwed into the camera becomes your objective lens. You actually screw the front of the old lens onto the front of your current camera's lens (this works best with DSLRs) So its long and potentially a big clumsy heavy thing to work with, but if you dont mind that, it works really well.This approach offers potentially quite good optical quality with some caveats. But its really worth looking into if you want to get in close to a PCB. The typical old 35 mm camera lens, backwards, is actually ideal for very high magnification PCB inspection because its optimized to focus the image onto a flat plane.The image may get a lot dimmer, depending on the zoom setting, etc. Check it out.It also can be very useful for, of course, copying old 35 mm slides..

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 02:20:12 am
content: Yes, I heard that too, and forgot all about it. I'll give it a try post haste. Thanks!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 04:16:48 am
content: If you don't have any old 35mm lenses you can get them on ebay for almost nothing. Some newer cameras have adapters out there that let them mount old lenses so sometimes they can be a real bargain.Also, some of the newer DSLRs (usually not so cheap) but also a number of nice "mirrorless" point and shoot cameras have video functionality thats really a lot better than a great many expensive video cameras out there.To beat them you really would have to spend a lot of money.A good example is the slightly older now discontinued Canon EOS-M which can be paired with the open source program Magic Lantern. Pictures- and video taken with it are really beautiful, and its insanely fast, so really beautiful natural light photos are no problem at all.Pictures of circuits that Ive taken with one look gorgeous (its not the camera I usually use)Its not mine, its a family members.. but I have use of it right now.. My only problem Its fairly complicated I haven't had the time to learn how to use it. Its on my list of things to do..But even my mistakes look gorgeous. The thing that seems as if it would be most appealing to me for photographing PCBs is the speed.My guess is it puts these various HDMI and USB cameras to shame. You can also use it tethered, I am pretty sure. (Check on the Magic Lantern web site). The software and hardware it supports evolves rapidly.I am looking forward to seeing open source camera hardware.