Tektronix 465 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: desdinova
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 07:48:00 am
content: I've been coming back to electronics after a long absence and I'm trying to put a decent home lab bench together. I've been on the lookout for a scope. It's my first scope although I learned on Tek 22** and 24** scopes in college; I was thinking of trying to find a newer digital model but the ones I've tried have confused and bewildered me so I decided to follow Dave's advice and get an older analog. I was looking at a refurbished Tek 2215 but this one popped up on craigslist and seemed like a pretty good deal for 155$.It came with the panel cover, top case, a copy of the manual and a probe.The probe's markings are almost completely gone, the clip body is marked Tektronix. I can't tell if the second letter's a B, 6 or 8, or what frequency or age it is. It's a 10x probe. Can anyone identify it?The screws on the DC input block don't look like they match... Anyone know what Option 7 was?Apparently the scope was once owned by GTE (the telephone company), and repaired/calibrated at one point.The only damage I can see is the rubber feet you wrap the cord around on the back are all broken off, and the right side handlle button thingy cover is missing some plastic.All the lights light up, both channels sweep and trigger, all the controls and switches seem to work, and the calibration seems very good for a 40 year old instrument. There's a little dirt here and there and some of the silk screening has rubbed off the buttons but all in all it's pretty clean.Here it is attached to a 4mhz XO54B oscillator I had lying around, I don't have a function generator around yet.I was chatting with my dad and told him about the scope and he told me a funny story. My family's from Portland, and during the 70's my dad was in a long term relationship with a woman who worked at Tektronix as the personal assistant for one of their senior marketing people. Since his degree was in architecture he could do drafting/technical drawings and apparently put in a lot of late nights doing illustrations for marketing material for Tek scopes on her behalf. Then she cheated on him with her boss, they broke up and he met my mom. So in a twisted sort of way, I owe my existence to classic Tektronix scopes. I guess I should take special care of this one.

author: rqsall
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 09:32:17 am
content: Don't want to cause you worry, but to me it seems like the fan is missing. Could be lighting of the picture though. It should be behind that grid on the rear on the third picture from the top.

author: desdinova
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 09:43:18 am
content: Quote from: rqsall on December 28, 2015, 09:32:17 amNo, it's in there and working. It's a weird design though. Instead of a propeller-blade type fan it's a spinning disk with tabs mounted perpindicularly, you can see it better in this picture from ebay:http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TW4AAOSwDk5UKytU/s-l1600.jpgThat whole thing behind the circular cutout is the fan. never seen one like that before. it is very quiet.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 10:46:33 am
content: Quote from: desdinova on December 28, 2015, 07:48:00 amI'm not sure where you get that from but every reply of Dave's in a DSO vs. Analog scope thread I seem to remember reading he was saying the opposite. Check Dave's replies on the first page ofhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/recommendation-request-new-rigol-ds1054z-or-used-tektronix-2467bhd/I am not trying to discourage you from buying the Tek if you think thats what will be best for you, I just don't want you to buy it based on false information. You also aren't going to find a usable DSO for $155 so if thats all you are willing to spend then a nice older analog might make sense.

author: rqsall
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 01:13:14 pm
content: Quote from: desdinova on December 28, 2015, 09:43:18 amI know what it looks like, I have a 465 myself. Just the picture throwing me off thenIt's called an impeller btw

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 01:43:58 pm
content: The cut out in the rear is suppose to have a piece of filter material stiffed in it.

author: MagicSmoker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 02:00:38 pm
content: The probe looks like P6105 to me, and would be an appropriate model number for the scope's vintage.The 465 is a great beginner's scope and built like the proverbial brick shithouse, though they are getting to be quite on in years at this point and will likely have issues with corroded trimmers (resistive and capacitive) and dried out electrolytic caps.

author: dan3460
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 02:09:17 pm
content: I have been working on restoring one of this. Do you know if has been serviced? The original lytics tend to fail. I would open the scope and look at the filter caps. Take pictures and post them so we can see.

author: EV
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 02:15:26 pm
content: Quote from: MagicSmoker on December 28, 2015, 02:00:38 pmBen Martin's picture of P6105 attached:

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 02:24:56 pm
content: I have the 465B version and they really are good scopes. Follow Dan's advice open her up and check those caps, power rail voltages, etc, and clean and service any mechcanicals. Just for starters. Check the yahoo tek users group too.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 03:27:41 pm
content: The filter caps won't show any physical changes - they're metal cans, but they do go bad. You should get a service manual and check the power supply voltages (there are test points labeled on the large main board that are easy to get to). Another scope is great for checking for ripple, but you can use a dmm as well on an AC range. When the filter caps go open the ripple gets huge. You should see less than 10mv on most of those (the full specs are in the service manual). You can also check them with an esr meter if you have one available.I would guess that the option 7 is the DC input.If you want to get replacement feet, I believe Sphere is remanufacturing them now. Don't quote me, but I think they're around 5 bucks a piece.

author: dan3460
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 04:48:55 pm
content: Agree, most of the time will not show physical damage, but we can see of the caps are original or not.

author: desdinova
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 10:02:32 pm
content: Quote from: CustomEngineerer on December 28, 2015, 10:46:33 amThis is the video I was thinking of:My price range is pretty low and I didn't want to spend a few months saving for a decent low-end DSO when I have projects I want to work on right now that need a scope. Also my experience is with analog Tek scopes, so it just felt right.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2015, 10:13:43 pm
content: Quote from: desdinova on December 28, 2015, 10:02:32 pmI doubt you'll ever regret your purchase and if you look after her you should get your money back.But in time you will want a DSO especially if you use a scope regularly and now there's no need to hurry your selection.Enjoy.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 01:06:11 am
content: Option 7 is the external 12 or 24 V DC power supply input.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 02:54:42 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 28, 2015, 10:13:43 pmThere's that moment when you notice that analog storage scopes are like Yeti (or in another culture Holy Grail) and capturing your scope screen via camera on the fairly expensive manfrotto stand isn't perfect.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 02:58:32 am
content: Quote from: karoru on December 29, 2015, 02:54:42 amI own a Tek 466 storage scope, having spent a couple hundred hours using one is a plus. They can be very fussy when it comes to capturing fast single sweeps.Back when...That was all we had and knowing how to use one was a plus.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 04:12:33 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on December 29, 2015, 02:58:32 amLOLThe same applies today....look how many photos of DSO displays are throughout the forum.Yes you are correct of course Sue, storage CRO's are another thing again, I hope yours gives you good service.

author: desdinova
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 07:43:05 am
content: Alright, I took the cover off and measured the low voltage test points with a voltmeter.The +55V supply at TP 1536 measures 54.6v which is just below the tolerance range of 54.72v and shows 0.743v ripple, spec is 4 mv.The +15V supply at TP 1548 measures 14.9v and 1 mv ripple, within spec.The +5v supply at TP 1558 measures 4.97v and no ripple.The -8V supply at TP 1568 measures -7.94v and no ripple.The 110v supply at TP1518 measures 109.5v which is within tolerance but on AC mode the voltmeter readout is oscillating between 3V and 0.07V about once a second. So, looks like at least that cap's a goner, but the DC voltage is within range.Here are nekkid pics for all you preverts:The caps all look original to me.These ICs (with swanky gold-plated pins, like on Saddam Hussein's oscilloscope) have had pin 4 bent upwards and a resistor soldered in place and tucked into the socket, what in the world

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 08:47:52 am
content: Quote from: desdinova on December 29, 2015, 07:43:05 amSeems like Tektronix can some thing with bodge-in wires, caps, resistors, etc.Have a look at my 2246; (second post)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-2246-no-beam!/15/

author: NilByMouth
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 12:29:53 pm
content: If you need help fixing it, the guys on the Tekscopes Yahoo group are extremely helpful and the list is very active. You have to ask to join, but it's worthwhile. Great for learning EE stuff too.https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/TekScopes/info

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 12:43:45 pm
content: I would be tempted to button it up, shine it up and enjoy it , ripple and all, until it starts complaining.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 01:38:12 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 29, 2015, 04:12:33 amIt has so far, the storage tube has seen light service in storage mode so I suspect I shall have plenty of life left in it. We are getting to that point in the life of this scope when it should have the power supply caps replaced.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 02:51:05 pm
content: Nice scopes. Much with any kit, they need the occasional bit of maintenance.Mine left me a nice Christmas present last week unfortunately. I recapped it two years ago after the rails started dropping out. Was fine after repair but it wont sweep now suddenly. Suspect bad resistor, cap or transistor somewhere in the sweep gen but can't find it with a meter. All bias voltages are fine. Picking up another one later today (thanks to another forum member) to do diagnostics with.Lesson learned: you need another scope to fix a scope

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 03:00:34 pm
content: Quote from: MrSlack on December 29, 2015, 02:51:05 pmThat's very true, thankfully the emergency scope is in the garage.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 04:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 29, 2015, 04:12:33 amReal men do single shot capture & storage by manually triggering the scope in dark room with photo camera pointed at it. It works quite well (it's also fine for glitch detection), specs: memory depth of 24 or 36 screens, read access time: from an hour to week (depends who develops the film). You can trade resolution for memory depth of course (6cmx6cm medium format comes with 10 image capture ability). It's fun!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 04:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: karoru on December 29, 2015, 04:42:16 pmThis ^^^^^And so do real women

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 05:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: karoru on December 29, 2015, 04:42:16 pmI am so happy now that are others are doing this too. I feel so much better taking my Tektronix RM 35A scope and my 1800's view camera to do my screen captures with. Imagine that and all this time I thought I was the only one.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 07:01:38 pm
content: Quote from: Docholiday on December 29, 2015, 05:02:33 pmHeh... I do it on the Tek 2213a with my Canon DSLR on Manual exposure mode. No waiting for film processing, but it does require some button-pressing coordination....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 07:20:29 pm
content: Waveform image capture was one of the main benefits when I changed to DSO's ~10 yrs ago, the other being reliability and not needing a second CRO to keep #1 CRO going.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 07:25:00 pm
content: But don't you think that an analog scope still even to this day has its place on the bench? And not just a paper weight.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 08:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: Docholiday on December 29, 2015, 07:25:00 pmYes. for some.Doc, you're asking the wrong member as I'm now spoilt for choice as towhichinstrument to use despite my affinity to CRO's (when working). I'll never have another CRO on my bench other than to be fixed.I will say however that I sometimes have the opportunity to visit my clients, some advancing in years and in all cases none ever regret the move to a DSO, they are so capable now.I see a problem when all newbies can afford is a CRO and so often they're faulty and/or develop faults as a result of their age. Most experienced users re-cap their units BUT hang on to them instead of "dipping their toes" in new technology and passing their CRO on to some newbie.Older experienced users are better placed to get to grips with DSO's, know what to expect when connecting a scope to a DUT, so quickly get used to the different functionality of a DSO and are far more capable of using the Trigger suites now available in DSO'sIn many ways it's a shame that DSO's have become so complex, even daunting in the array of features now considered standard or essential....by whom? Mostly manufacturers engaged in one upmanship.A basic DSO with a good trigger suite, reasonable specs (MHz & Ga/s) and a bit of memory will do most hobbyist tasks and some.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 09:26:33 pm
content: But you can't use it to keep your room warm in winter. My old Tek RM503 works great for that! And I hear a 555 is even better.

author: Docholiday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 11:06:56 pm
content: I see your point Tautech, these DSO/MSO are far surpassing analogs by leaps and bounds. The scopes we have at school (Tek) now we would be lucky if we are able to use a lot of the features on a regular basis. But the electronics industry is so rapidly expanding by the time you understand some aspect of it that itself has now become obsolete. The cycle starts again.Can you imagine what will be available to us in five years? AI capable instruments, 3D screens, simulation programs...

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 11:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on December 29, 2015, 09:26:33 pmMy 545 did a good job of that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 12:04:14 am
content: Quote from: Docholiday on December 29, 2015, 11:06:56 pmExactly Doc.Presumably they're the TDS 1k or 2k series and for basic work or as a stepping stone from CRO's they are fine despite the bad rap they get here. Hell even their now outdated Trigger suite runs rings around many CRO's.As for the future.....my greatest fear is the previously mentioned ongoing one-upmanship between manufacturers seemingly endlessly incorporating all manner of "features" within "ordinary" DSO's making them unordinarily complex and potentially bug ridden.Sure, advanced instruments of this nature are needed, but not by all.Good sound basic instruments used with reasonable user knowledge can get you a long way.We users are not without blame, most are constantly looking for the "best featured" DSO and consequently fueling the race to design the best selling DSO, remember it's not so much about "users", it's about sales.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 01:01:56 am
content: Well, what can I say. I have done most of my work with an Iwatsu DS6612 CRO combi, which I still use (will need to recap ASAP though), and am now adding:x) LeCroy 9364AMx) Iwatsu DS-6121 CombiScopex) Tek TDS754DI would not want to work at a bench without an analog scope...simply because they are more "real". For example, I recently hunted down a bug in a process computer by using my analog scope, triggering permanently to "paint a spectrogram" of the state of the data line. Doing this with a DPO AFAIK is impossible.But, on the other hand, I am an old bone. Plus, I am spoilt as my trusty Iwatsu had a quite decent digital moduleedit: so I never worked on a real analog only one...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 02:49:13 am
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on December 30, 2015, 01:01:56 amThat your tools achieve the results you need is always great, but it's nothing special these days in a DSO; coloured intensity gradingSDS1000X seriesEnable some persistence and wallah...

author: desdinova
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 04:14:33 am
content: Quote from: DimitriP on December 29, 2015, 12:43:45 pmI think that's what I'm going to do until I have room in my project queue to replace the supply caps

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 05:28:20 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 30, 2015, 02:49:13 am* TAMHAN wonders about the rules for rudeness on this forum, and crap...but well, tautech is not responsible that my day went really really bad. And I won't take it out on himRe the Siglent: tbph, that chart DOES look good, much better than what I saw on the digi scopes I used so far (didnt really use the LeCroy 93xx or the TDS7xxD yet, so its basically TD2 series only).But it still doesnt quite satisfy me...why does it use the multicolor gradients rather than monochromatic.Plus, please be honest: how long did you have to button mash to get this result?P.S. Feel free to not answer me: neither me nor SWIMBO are in the market for a scope currently. And if yes, we are in Slovakia (which is Rigolland, with some Agilent and OWON mixed in), so you likely wont even be able to sell to us...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 06:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on December 30, 2015, 05:28:20 pmFirst, I only supply my NZ market.With colour turned on, Intensity grading better highlights the most active portions of a waveform in red while the least is shown in blue. Without the colour the visual clues are not as distinct.Another from same SDS1000X page on the Siglent website:As can be seen from the UI, one button press to the Display menu then Colour or Persistence can be selected each with a dedicated button....maybe 3 seconds, 1 for each of the 3 needed to obtain the coloured display.EditNote, in the images above the Trigger has been set for Pulse, this allows parameters to be set that the waveform must match or otherwise trigger the display. Note the small correct negative repetitive pulse and the positive stepping waveform is the abnormality.

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 06:50:07 pm
content: Hello,thank you for your nice response - already found someone to take my rage out onThat, actually is so much better. That looks quite sensible, and is something I could live with if I ever need to...but I got enough Iwatsu scopes to protect me from that changeP.S. I got some beef with the Rigol Distributor in SK (my neighbors) - so if you guys are looking for an oppinionated, cursy permanentely angry dude to handle your sales in SK, let me know.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 06:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: TAMHAN on December 30, 2015, 06:50:07 pmAre you sure you are the right person?http://www.siglenteu.com/lxwms.aspx?id=1110

author: Martini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2016, 03:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: desdinova on December 29, 2015, 07:43:05 amIt looks to me as if C1552 (5000 µF, 25 V) was replaced.