Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 02:24:46 pm
content: Would someone please recommend me a good hot air workstation/gun? I saw Dave's video. I have something similar. In my case, the hand piece fell off half way from cradle and melted plastic. ME thinks failure mode shouldn't be ON state....I'm willing to pay reasonable $$ for good design.My use case is very occasional chip level repair, DIY, and heat shrink shrinking. Function wise, what Dave showed is fine. I just want it safe.

author: vaser888
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:05:05 pm
content: I don't know which hot air workstation you currently have but I know that the Quick 861dw is highly recommended. (Have a look at reviews of that station)

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:14:48 pm
content: The problem with the Quick 861DW (other than price) is that it's a 1000W unit. That is a feature for the professional, but a problem for many US home users who only have 1 or 2 15A circuits available in the lab/workshop.The 400W Quick 957DW+ is more practical for this reason (and cheaper), but is out of stock until sometime in April.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:19:17 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on March 25, 2019, 04:14:48 pmHow it's a problem? Unless you run 2 of them simultaneously, there won't be overload. Also it's not like it consumes 1000W constantly. After less than 10 seconds as it will reach target temperature, it will consume power only intermittently. It's like saying that using electric kettle (more power than 861DW) is a problem.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:25:05 pm
content: Well, it can be a problem.... (I am a licensed electrician)Typical homes in United States are wired 1 to 2 rooms to one circuit, which is normally 15A. Then all of the socket in those rooms are connected to parallel. Say you have few equipment running, then hot air gun kicks in, maybe something else comes on at NEXT room, BOOM, you lose your power. (circuit breaker trips)I knew this will be a problem, so I pulled in 30A circuit into 3KVA UPS. This supplies power to test gears. 20A is reserved for just such situation high load has to be connected, and is currently lightly loaded. 15A is not used at all except for silly things like iphone chargers.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 25, 2019, 04:25:05 pmYou need to run something else with more than 800W power on the same circuit breaker for this to become a problem. Comparing to 957DW+ (580W) it would be additional 1220W to become a problem. Not such a huge difference.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:40:57 pm
content: If that's a suitable arrangement in your lab, go for it.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 04:46:44 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 25, 2019, 04:36:15 pmAs has been mentionedhereand other places, the 957DW+ is actually rated at 400W.Quote from: wraper on March 25, 2019, 04:19:17 pmIn a US kitchen, you usually can't run an electric kettle and a microwave oven at the same time - same issue.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 05:04:49 pm
content: I really like my QUICK 857DW+ I don't know what the difference is between it and the 957DW+ other than the paint but it does a great job and is very quiet for how powerful the air flow is. The motor is in the cabinet instead of the hand piece. I usually set it to about 300C and 1/2 way on the airflow knob to quickly remove or reflow components. And it takes up very little space on my bench.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 05:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 25, 2019, 02:24:46 pmWould you mind to tell us WHAT BRAND AND MODEL melted apart ?And for the record.. There is not much problem replacing the 15A circuit brakewith a 30A one. I have done this on a couple of them here.Running in 2 separate phases to relief the thermalas long as you don't turn too much stuff at once...Paul

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 06:03:43 pm
content: It's a HUGE deal to replace breakers to 30Amps. Replacing circuit breaker itself is easy. But, wire size must be upped, that means rewire through attic and walls. Plus, 30Amp circuit cannot be branched. One breaker, one outlet. Mine is done that way. I guess the point is, I can deal with this part. An only issue is which hot air gun to buy.I was going to buy an 1KW version. I am assuming it can be dialed down to replace small smd? Or not? I'm looking for user's experience. Is this an overkill? I can spend up to $500 US. I hate to buy same thing twice (like this). So my next unit will have to be good, and do more.Please see pictures for my current unit and its damage. The cradle is not very well designed, and hand piece falls off easily, and that's what happened here. Fortunately, I was right there, so no major damage, but it could be very very bad.

author: edgelog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 06:41:03 pm
content: Worth considering is also the Quick 861DE, a slight variation on the 861DW with 1200W instead of 1000W, and a higher max airflow. I first got a 858 hot air gun but quickly got the 861DE instead. There's no comparison in functionality and quality. Day and night.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 06:55:35 pm
content: Quote from: edgelog on March 25, 2019, 06:41:03 pmDE version has some downsides. Like higher fan spin-up time and it's much louder when cooling down because it's doing it on max airflow, not to say price difference. So unless you really need 200 l/min airflow, it's wiser to buy DW version.Quote from: tkamiya on March 25, 2019, 06:03:43 pmAirflow can be set within 1-120 l/min range. You can solder anything with it. No downsides compared with less powerful stations. Handle has thermal fuse within it, so something like on your pictures won't happen.

author: edgelog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:01:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 25, 2019, 06:55:35 pmWhen I bought it, it was actually a little bit cheaper than the 861DW. Weird but true.Interestingly, at this moment TEquipment seems to have a sale on the 861DW, see:https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/Looks like it's around $250 in the US (I'm only seeing Swedish prices, but that's what it converts to).

author: frmdstryr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 07:39:12 pm
content: Also looking and researching different units...The Hakko FR-8XX units are the only ones I found that is has any safety certification (MET).See manuals inhttps://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/american-hakko-products-inc/FR810B-05/. It's more expensive but used older units can be found on eBay regularly. The few hundred bucks difference is not worth cutting corners IMHO.Those who recommend the Quick stations, do they have any safety certifications? There's none on the label so I'm assuming not.

author: edgelog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 08:36:58 pm
content: Mine has the CE mark on the label.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 08:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on March 25, 2019, 05:04:49 pmWhere did you buy it? Does it have a US warranty? I have the impression it's a China only model.Quote from: edgelog on March 25, 2019, 07:01:49 pmThe 861DW is $258, or $243 with the EEVblog discount. Looks like it's now out of stock there too, so check the lead time before ordering.The 957DW+ is $86 with discount.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 08:51:40 pm
content: Yes, I want to know the safety features. What's the failure mode? Let's say the hand piece falls off of the holder. What happens then?I'm thinking if I wait long enough, someone will suggest ZZ version with 12 gigawatt heater and RollsRoyce jet engine for wind source. Comes with its own nuclear power station. Protestors included but counter protestors are option.

author: EHT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 09:06:33 pm
content: I have an "Aoyue Int 852A+ Pro" which I'm quite happy with. I just use it for occasional use, for which it has been fine. It seems to be well enough made. It was about 100 GBP new.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 09:18:19 pm
content: Quote from: frmdstryr on March 25, 2019, 07:39:12 pmWhy would you pay more for inferior used station? FR810 is also very loud in comparison. Of course Quick has required safety certifications unless you buy version for different market. But even in that case there is nothing wrong with it, just certified for different market.

author: frmdstryr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 10:00:36 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 25, 2019, 09:18:19 pmI have no experience with either station. I'm not claiming one is better than the other, just pointing out that the Quick from Dave's review has no markings on the label (seehttps://youtu.be/N_yHkrVYrBE?t=507) and various units from ebay (filtering by US only) that I looked at don't either.Considering the title of this post has "and SAFE", can anyone with a US unit confirm if the Quick 861DW has a MET/UL/ETL or similar safety certification?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 11:48:59 pm
content: Checkhttps://www.circuitspecialists.com/hot-air-station?c=8154&sort=price&dir=ascThey sell rebadged Aoyue and Yihua units. They are in the USA. I purchased the CSI899A+ in 2013 and just purchased CSI-STATION 2+. I only use it as a hobby.This is not an endorsement I have no relationship with them.Good Luck

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 12:02:55 am
content: Quote from: frmdstryr on March 25, 2019, 10:00:36 pmIt's 220V version for Chinese market on the video. Mine is for EU market, rated for 230V and has CE mark on it. If you take Hakko for Chinese market, there won't be UL mark as well.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 12:56:58 am
content: Gentlemen....It is not really the mark that's important. UL will guarantee some level of standard, but Chinese CE is pretty much meaningless. There is no testing done. It's just a claim.For owners of Quick. Please describe what kind of safety feature does it have? If the handle falls off the cradle, does it shut down? What does it do to prevent fire? And one more thing... Many, mine included keeps the fan on to cool it for a while in cradle. For good period of time, it blows hot air at whatever happens to be in front of it. Curtains, etc. To me, blowing it into a defuser, reflector, bucket of ice, etc, would be much safer.As Dave demonstrated and I have experienced, some Chinese makes have failure mode that can end in fire - just for not putting in cradle right. Cradle is not even well designed. It is shallow and a grove must precisely match other grove. (Mine slipped off) To me, this is not a good safe design.I trust UL and ETL, and whatever German one was.... I put no weight in CE. (not the EU version of it, Chinese version of it)

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:13:33 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 26, 2019, 12:56:58 amNo station will shut down if handle falls off the stand. How it should know if fell off or you took it to do the job? FWIW stand of Quick won't melt, it's made from cast metal, not plastic.The difference between Quick and cheap crap that it won't set your house on fire. Cheap stations don't have any thermal protection. If fan or triac fails, or MCU simply glitches, cheap stations self destruct in flames. Quick has thermal fuse inside the handle to prevent such scenario. Moreover many of cheap stations actually don't disconnect the heater from mains, even if it seems like there is a hard switch. Because of that they may set themselves on fire while you are away and are thinking that station is switched off.https://youtu.be/XwJdYxe_HFQhttps://youtu.be/m5kzyUFb2Sghttps://youtu.be/tUFW5teeRBM

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:31:48 am
content: Thanks for the video. Why is the woman on the first video SO casual about all this? Fire is already starting when she looked at it and left the station. Then she casually goes over to get his supervisor...I can think of several ways to detect if the handle was in hand or has fallen off, but I guess no manufacturer has done it. I've looked at Hakko one. Wow, they are expensive! I wonder if Quick is as safe or safer than Hakko.Thanks everyone for opinions and information. They all helped a lot.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:44:25 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 26, 2019, 01:31:48 amIt's a male. He gone to circuit breaker to switch off electricity first.

author: Hemi345
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:50:57 am
content: Quote from: edavid on March 25, 2019, 08:48:13 pmI bought it new off Ebay for $79 from seller that had US stock. No UL cert that I can find but it's a 110V model and came with a standard 5-15P plug wired in. BTW, I marked out the S/N and such just in Photoshop to protect it's identity

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:51:15 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on March 26, 2019, 01:31:48 amAll I know is that insides of Quick 861 look neater than FR-810B.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:53:22 am
content: Quote from: Hemi345 on March 26, 2019, 01:50:57 amIt's grey import.

author: Samogon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 08:35:59 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 26, 2019, 01:44:25 amAndRussians usually do not express emotions like many other nationalities. LoL

author: frmdstryr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 01:56:26 pm
content: QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong but according to an "unbiased review" on youtube, the Quick turns on automatically as soon it's taken out of the standhttps://youtu.be/ChujyTV-HME?t=1325but the Hakko requires a button to be pressed before it startshttps://youtu.be/ChujyTV-HME?t=1510.That alone is a major safety feature, if the Hakko handle falls off it wont turn on automatically in the first place.The youtube video in this threadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/hakko-fr-810-how-loud-is-the-pump/50/shows the build quality difference between the Hakko and Quick.A "US" version Hakko FR-810B recently sold on eBay is clearly MET listed with the listing number on the label. Even the $15 heat guns from Harbor freight have an ETL certification on the label.Also thanks for the videos. Helps put into perspective how much power these things put out and also makes it an easy decision.The Hakko, while more expensive, seems cheap compared to the other Weller/JBC stations (https://www.jbctools.com/jtse-hot-air-station-product-1261.html) I found. Definitely don't want to cheap out on something that could potentially start a fire and burn my house down while I'm out for lunch.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 02:09:12 pm
content: Maybe just switch off power to your soldering tools whenever you leave the station? I think it's a good idea anyway and will protect against e.g. mains surge shorting out the triac controlling the heater and leaving it on.EDIT: also don't put too much faith in certifications. They don't mean shit other than a set of very primitive rules are followed in the design which means you won't be electrocuted. It doesn't mean a defect or mains overvoltage won't start a fire.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 26, 2019, 03:18:22 pm
content: Just stop writing about that certification nonsense. Quick is sold at Newark and other reputable distributors. They won't sell equipment without required safety approvals. As I said, unless you buy grey import, it will have necessary safety mark.