TL866II+ - what to select to program PALCE22V10H ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eda8039
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 15, 2021, 04:07:49 am
content: I have a new TL866II+ and some Lattice PALCE22V10H chips. I See that the IC select menu have GAL22V10's B, C, D. Which one is most compatible ? Should I use the lowest possible programming voltage selection ?THanks

author: xjordanx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 07:57:22 pm
content: I have the same programmer, and I have some of the same chips.I can tell you with a fair degree of confidence that any programmer you can get, even OLD (80s) that's under $200-$300 on eBay, can NOT program PALCE devices. Those are electrically erasable and to this day AMD and Lattice NEVER published the programming / erase algorithm. It's a closely guarded secret only shared with their NDA signed business partners (like XL-tech or BK Precision).I am annoyed as you are, because I thought a generic GAL/PAL programmer could do it, but come to find out after eagerly pulling and collecting the chips out of old telco gear, unless I'm also willing to setup a DOS computer with 8-bit ISA card (dedicated to the programmer) and spend a few hundred dollars on the used programmer that might not even work...Honestly, you're better off buying some of the cheap GAL22V10s still in production by Atmel/Microchip because the TL-866 II+ DOES work with those. And heck, the parts are only a dollar or two each.

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2022, 04:13:41 am
content: Quote from: xjordanx on April 05, 2022, 07:57:22 pmPALCE programming differs from GAL/Bipolar PAL, the only similarity is that all of them utilize some sort of "High-Voltage PGMMODE".

author: YetAnotherTechie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2022, 11:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: Beta_vulgaris on April 06, 2022, 04:13:41 amI'm curious about this part of your signature, could you please elaborate?

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2022, 11:38:58 am
content: Quote from: YetAnotherTechie on April 22, 2022, 11:24:48 pmFor most PLDs, the programming algorithms, even programming pinout information, are unavailable to end-users. Only the large programmer manufacturers can be provided with the programming information. Their obsolete programmers are becoming more difficult to be acquired. So, rather than while our descendents observating the old devices (often more and more durable and tolerant than today's) to decay during the longevity of geological chronology, we can make something valuable and meaningful - preserve their algorithms to prolong the contents inside.

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 07:33:53 am
content: I can program PALCEs, have sadly none, I have a logic analyzer too, could do some trace capture. I wonder if aliexpresses PALCEs are any good... I socked on GALs already, aliexpress GALs

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 09:09:12 am
content: Quote from: ale500 on April 24, 2022, 07:33:53 amWelcomed to preserve the algorithms!

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2022, 04:48:24 am
content: I bought some PALCE22V10H, I'll try with my programmer and see how it goes. I suppose GALAsm can generate a fuse map for it, i.e. it is compatible with GAL22V10 ? Or will I have to use WINCupl ?

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2022, 04:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: ale500 on April 28, 2022, 04:48:24 amFusemaps are the same.

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 04:28:03 am
content: PALCEs arrived yesterday, I made a small rig to access the pins and started by reading the already programmed fuse map. Uses 8 V on PIN 2 (at least) to read. Needs loads of work but it is doable.

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 05:27:38 am
content: Quote from: ale500 on May 03, 2022, 04:28:03 amProgramming pinout just like the GAL?

author: ale500
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 02:06:28 pm
content: I see some toggling on pins 13..22 when on read.Programming requires 9 V on several pins:CH1 PIN 1 yellow, clock, zooming shows a different picture: a data signal with an "embedded clock" (tek0000)CH2 PIN 2 cyan 9 VCH3 PIN 5 Violette, some kind of command/data signalCH4 PIN 4 green 9 VI have to do some more captures to see the other pins, more to come.

author: Beta_vulgaris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2022, 03:49:34 pm
content: Quote from: ale500 on May 03, 2022, 02:06:28 pmBipolar RZ code on pin 1?

author: Anthem
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2024, 01:13:26 pm
content: This is strange. The PDF files for the PALCE22V10 from ATMEL and Lattice both say respectively:"Programming and ErasingThe PALCE22V10 can be programmed on standardlogic programmers. It also may be erased to reset a previously configured device back to its virgin state.Erasure is automatically performed by the programming hardware. No special erase operation is required""Programming and ErasingThe PALCE22V10 can be programmed on standard logic programmers. It also may be erased toreset a previously configured device back to its unprogrammed state. Erasure is automaticallyperformed by the programming hardware. No special erase operation is required"I see the GALEP-4 PLD programmer has PALCE22V10 listed as being programmable by it. Since I have the TL8866ii+ looks like I'll go for the GAL22V10. Thanks for all the insights to all.