Simple chart of old firefighting TICs sensor type - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 03:55:17 pm
content: I post it here in case anyone need it.As attached.Source: archived version of "https://www.safe-ir.com/camera-types" (The website is now broken)I really wish there could be a spec sheet for every model, most of them are so difficult to find.

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 04:07:41 pm
content: I can fill out what sensor specifically is used on a fair few of those, core type would be a good thing to have as a field on there, might port this as a page on my portfolio site.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 09:19:24 pm
content: Adding a few and converted (back) to spreadsheet.So far just splitting the cores into sensor manufacturer not right down to deviceawait upload....

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2021, 10:37:17 pm
content: First stab at this, over to you ArsenioDevWhile I have most of the datasheets for these many are not much use in determining the sensor / core.For example the datasheet for the ISG K80 simply says 'Force Fire bolometer' with no resolution, pitch or technology stated.None of the Argus 4 or Argus Mi-TIC datasheets say which detector is in there, just 'an A-Si'.Bill

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 02:15:34 am
content: I can tell you for a FACT the K80 uses a ULIS weird conical ASi unit, know this because I tore one down to parts haha.Edit: Most of the part numbers I know are just internal designations, not sure what current is but I'll do my best to fill em out.

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 02:35:04 pm
content: Fraser is absolutely right, the easiest way to tell is honestly looking at the microbolometer interface, video "look" and OSDs, they will pretty accurately give you an idea of what sensor is in there, but you can't beat opening the thing up.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:00:17 pm
content: Arseniodev,Sorry, I removed my post as it was not that helpful and could cause confusion. Whilst it is true that the cores within a specific model of fire fighting camera did vary, depending upon age, manufacture location and core availability, there was usually some identifying detail in the cameras model number that indicated this difference. The Bullard Commander is a good example….. the case stayed the same from outside but the core changed from BST to Microbolometer. The name “Commander” remained but the Prefix changed. In my previous post it read as though there were many different cores fitted in a particular model of fire fighting camera and this could be deceptive. There were sometimes changes in core throughout a particular cameras life but these were usually detailed in the models specifications so some research of data sheets is recommended. We have seen some surprises on this forum when the expected core is not found in a particular camera but this can be due to cores going ‘End of Life’ or importation challenges. There is sometimes a useful Thermal Eye or Indigo logo on the cameras casing or even in the startup splash screen. This can help to identify the likely core used in the camera. The graphics overlay can also help the knowledgeable identify a likely core manufacturer.As a final,note, ISG moved to in-house core development in more recent years and we see bespoke ISG designed cores in the likes of the X380 and E380 cameras. Some K series cameras also contain ISG designed cores. These cores are not as user friendly to experimenters as the instruction set and firmware configuration interface is not public domain.Way back when BST and Microbolometer cores started to appear in fire fighting cameras, the manufacturers of such cameras did not have a great deal of choice when it came to ‘bolt-in’ core kits. There were…..Raytheon Thermal Eye BST coresPlessey Pyroelectric FPA coresRaytheon Thermal Eye ASi Microbolometer coresBAE VOx microbolometer coresIndigo VOx microbolometer coresThere were others but these were the main ‘players’. The Cores offered by these companies improved over time whilst some core technologies were discontinued in favour of Microbolometer core development.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2021, 03:22:30 pm
content: Quote from: ArsenioDev on September 05, 2021, 02:35:04 pmI would say some and some for that. BST nice and easy from the halo. Folks who simply did a screwdriver job on say Raytheon ASi, again easy spots. Some of the larger customers (MSA for example) had custom OSD loads from BAe/Lockheed or Indigo/FLIR to 'differentiate' or specmanship on colours, modes & upper temperatures.Where it gets trickier is the likes of Argus and ISG who had their own core back-ends so despite a wider variety of sensors could all look the same. The variety was very wide in the case of ISG with VOx and A-Si in the K1000 series and several types of ULIS sensor in the E380. On the Argus side the 3 very different Argus3's and while all ULIS sensors there were 5 sensors used in Argus4 and 4 so far for Argus Mi-TIC.

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 06:46:11 pm
content: Thank you everyone.I think even if we cannot get a full spec sheet for each model, a sensor pixel pitch data will be useful and interesting, because that will give people a good hint if they want to change the lens on one camera (they can calculate the sensor size and choose the correct focal length for the desired FOV).If the data for most of models is gathered, I can modify the OP picture to make it more useful.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2021, 11:34:39 pm
content: Are you thinking of long table like this ?Might be near 100 rows even if we took out the 'NFPA' entriesCode:BrandCamera nameProduct IDTechnologySensor resActive resPitchFrame rateSensor MfrSensor type / modele2vArgus4P7030A-Si160x120160x12035u30ULIS02051e2vArgus4P7009A-Si160x120160x12035u9ULIS02051

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 01:14:57 am
content: Previous effort to compile a list of sensors (and cameras that feature those to some degree) didn't get very far. Even a list of microbolometer manufacturers got hella confusing because all the US military contractors move around different subsidiaries.

author: Logan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2021, 03:33:33 pm
content: Quote from: Vipitis on September 08, 2021, 01:14:57 amCould you give the link of the "Previous effort"? It would interesting to see.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2021, 01:49:27 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/the-thermal-imaging-spreadsheet/msg1449803/#msg1449803https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/list-of-all-microbolometer-manufactures/msg2804892/#msg2804892There is another posts that I might link later about miniature cores, but I don't think it was it's own thread.