"Chartered Engineers" - it's a thing now. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Esposch T. Tapir
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:29:33 am
content: Saw this billboard at Melbourne Airport the other day.Please don't let my nightmares come true.Just look at his bloody tie.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 03:31:11 am
content: The tie? Just look at his face, he must be arrogant on levels equal to trump.

author: SkyMaster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:33:20 am
content: Quote from: Esposch T. Tapir on February 23, 2016, 03:29:33 amWe have the same in Canada. Every provinces has its own distinct professional engineers association. That never caused me any issue.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 04:35:15 am
content: Around half their membership is "freebies" to Students/Retirees/Honoured Members, but its largely just students taking a free ride. After a botched change to their constitution in 2010 where they used online voting but condensed all the changes into a single yes/no option they don't even pretend to offer any representation of professionalism. The good news is they're irrelevant through their own efforts and the number of jobs where you need the membership/association is vanishingly small. There are several other "professional" bodies who offer the same recognition/status if you're in the market for that ticket.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 01:57:07 pm
content: QuoteThat about describes it.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 02:14:21 pm
content: QuoteEngineers with suits... that's just unnatural!When I see people with a suit I become suspicious, and assume they have something to hide and are about to start flinging bullshit my way.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 02:23:12 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on February 23, 2016, 02:14:21 pmExactly!Tie and suit = they are probably lying to you on some level.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:03:26 pm
content: Pah, you scruffs!I wore a shirt and tie my whole career and a suit for quite a lot of it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 08:12:23 pm
content: Chartered Engineers have always been a thing. In the UK you get to put C.Eng. after your name, it is an equivalent professional registration to P.E. in the USA.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 11:42:40 pm
content: Same in Ireland (I'm one, even though in the IT industry nobody's really even heard of the accreditation, but in mech it seems more widely known and it's indispensible in civil eng). It's supposed to be a qualification that says you've been working in the industry for a few years, that you've actually stepped up and done things rather than hidden away and coasted while waiting to jump off the technical track to management or something else, and that you're a safe pair of hands. It's also meant to help a lot if you emigrate (because there are similar international recognitions of the C.Eng qualification that you have for undergrad engineering degrees).BTW, the last time I wore a suit, I was getting married and the last time before that I was burying someone. I don't think I've ever worn a suit to work (sod that noise, I worked bloody hard so I wouldn't have to).

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 11:46:30 pm
content: Hmm, I thought all super professional, certified, accredited, chartered and all kinds of things abbreviated engineers wear shorts and flippers to work.Damn, I have to wear socks and pants to work now!!!???Poor Murphy, what is he going to wear in office if we get "chartered".

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:35:07 am
content: he looks like a sales engineer

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:29:35 am
content: Quote from: daqq on February 23, 2016, 02:14:21 pmWhat's wrong with you.I wear a suit if and when appropriate. At IBM I wore a suit for about 8 years. I have been an engineer my whole career. I have nothing to hide except maybe schematic pin numbers on resistors and I don't fling bullshit at anyone, even to presumptuous people like yourself.These days, I wear smart casual or semi-formal at work, except on Fridays where neat casual is acceptable if clients are not visiting. It pays to look your best. It is respectful to not only yourself but to others around you.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:34:26 am
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on February 24, 2016, 12:35:07 amI always wondered who put those two words together the first time, and gave it some meaning.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:49:39 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 24, 2016, 11:29:35 amSo (a) you don't have to wear a suit in IBM, I never saw one of the engineers wear one in the five years I worked there, and (b) I'm not sure I'd hold up IBM as an example of good practice on an Australian-based forum right now...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 12:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: MarkDennehy on February 24, 2016, 11:49:39 amYou must be young and must have not worked for IBM in the 1980's when all engineers in IBM Australia wore suits. No exceptions. Wangaratta went to no tie in the mid 90's. In fact I recall in the 1980's if your suit jacket did not match your suit pants, you were subject to reprimand.I agree with your remark (b). It just so happens in the 70's and 80's IBM was recognised as the best large company to work for in the world. Then Louis Gerstner took over the helm. He removed Thomas J. Watson five basic beliefs and replaced it with a market-driven one liner that proved to be quite deceptive. It has been down hill ever since, certainly from an employee morale perspective. They cheated some employees out of their superannuation - in my case $40K. Today, I would not waste my time with them irrespective of money offered. It would be like selling your soul to the devil.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 24, 2016, 12:23:48 pmFor a given value of youngThough the code I had to work on was written in the 80s...QuoteI believe we would not fall out over this were we chatting about our IBM stints over pints

author: Milmat1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 02:38:50 pm
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on February 24, 2016, 12:35:07 amWe need to have a "LIKE" Button........

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 03:32:30 pm
content: Quote from: XOIIO on February 23, 2016, 03:31:11 amI agree. Real engineers don't wear ties!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:08:02 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 24, 2016, 03:32:30 pmOn the contrary - Real engineers are organized enough to have time to put a tie on in the morning and not just wander in wearing whatever comes to hand... or what they were wearing last night!Basically, care and attention to detail.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:19:05 pm
content: No,realengineerscanwear ties if they want, but don'thaveto wear ties because they're so critical to the success of the business

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:31:58 pm
content: Yes, ok, I'll go along with that one... with provisos: 1, they must own a tie, 2. have an appropriate shirt to wear it with, without looking stupid, and 3. Know how to tie it.There's no way I'm going along with that 'Real engineers don't wear ties' cr*p though.

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:36:43 pm
content: Ah, but for 3. will you accept a half-windsor or must it be a full windsor?(And no, that stupid texan bit of string doesn't count for any of this. YOU'RE WEARING A WOGGLE TEXANS!)(also, some of us just prefer grandfather shirts. It's a cultural thing. And they look a damn sight more stylish when worn correctly)

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:42:43 pm
content: Haha, ok, you win - a half windsor is fine.P.S. I'm so tall that I run out of tie if I try a full windsor!

author: MarkDennehy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 05:59:55 pm
content: I find buying slightly longer ones helps - if it's not reaching your belt, you're wearing the wrong size.(This does not excuse you from using a tie clip however).You could, of course, use a bow tie.I mean, everyone in the software world is going to look at you funny if you wear a tie these days, you might as well go the whole hog about it. You'll wind up going full circle and looking like a hipster, which takes you right back into the normal levels of weird the software world is embracing

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:18:19 pm
content: Aha no, a bow tie is going to get you placed in an 'individual contributor' role faster than you can say it.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: MarkDennehy on February 24, 2016, 05:59:55 pmI've spent almost all of my post-degree time working in IT in one capacity or another (so much for getting a degree in EE...) and I have NEVER worn "IT Guy" facial hair. After nearly 50 years of looking at myself in mirrors, I think I look stupid when anything but clean shaven. Neat beard, bushy beard, goatee, mustache, nope, not for me.Ties, ties are an evil leftover from the says when they actually were part of armor to keep you from being stabbed in the throat. In the modern business world, it's not the throat you need to worry about being stabbed in.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 03:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 24, 2016, 05:08:02 pmI dont think so. Ties and shirts make soldering hard, and sometimes the work you do is just messy, with IPA, sharp probes, crawling on the floor looking for the end of the UTP cable.I know, all this job is for the technicians, but apparently they dont exist anymore.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 04:58:04 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 24, 2016, 11:29:35 amQuote from: VK3DRB on February 24, 2016, 12:23:48 pmNothing, the meaning has just changed, and it is (thankfully) "appropriate" in increasingly few scenarios. And it happens that nowadays those still wearing them are mostly sales/banking/execs i.e. those who have to go above and beyond to get people to shell out cash using increasingly dubious methods, trying to look "classy" being one... hence the drop in confidence.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:47:26 am
content: First of all: Different countries have different work culture. I for myself never met an engineer wearing a suit or a tie (some wear a nice shirt but that is about it) but I am aware that the USA and other countries like to war suits in an office and then cool the office space down to 19°C or something like that so they don't sweat to much (that is just ridiculous).Why "real" engineers don't wear a suit if they dont have to:A suit isn't a very functional piece of clothing because it is quite stiff, it costs a lot and it isn't very comfortable for most people.We don't work a lot with customers so why should we always look extremly official?You have to be dressed well of course but you can achieve that with a clean and fitting t-shirts & jeans outfit. Just don't look like a bum.This outfit saves you time and money and is therefore more efficient and enginnering should be about efficiency and functionality. (one could say it has a smaller overhead)That is why enginners should not wear suits and a tie if they don't have to.

author: canibalimao
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:57:44 am
content: Quote from: Philfreeze on February 23, 2016, 02:23:12 pmMaybe that's why guys wear suit on their mariage. There must be "some" lies in that hole ceremony

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:41:36 am
content: I worked for an IBM subcontractor in the late 90s very early 2000s and had to wear a white shirt and tie. This was a job moving and installing computers. We were allowed to wear an IBM knit shirt on Fridays.Our boss who was an IBM retiree would on occasion purchase a tie or white shirt during his lunch break if he felt an employee's shirt or tie were lacking in anyway and tell them to wear it for the day.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:53:43 am
content: Quote from: Philfreeze on February 26, 2016, 08:47:26 amSuits are normal in Japan. Even the cleaners at the train station platforms wear suits. I worked in Japan on several occasions in the 90's and in a large plant near Kyoto all the engineers came to work in suits, took their jackets off and wore blue ESD coats all day. They wear suits to save face, have pride in themselves and to show respect to others. In Tokyo, ALL my colleagues wore suits.Richard Branson is in stark contrast. No suit there. And not much respect either...http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/virgin-blue-loses-age-discrimination-case/2005/10/10/1128796447967.htmlhttp://rightnow.org.au/news-article/age-discrimination-in-the-australian-workplace/I still don't think I see older air hostesses on Virgin aeroplanes. The "Virgin Flair"... what a load of.

author: Philfreeze
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:04:18 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 26, 2016, 10:53:43 amExactly what I meant with different work cultures and if I understand you right they were suits in public but at work they wear work clothes. That is fine by me. I don't care that much about what people are wearing as long as I don't have to. (except if there is a reason; I wear an ESD shirt with an ESD lab coat at work, which is fine because serves a purpose)

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:13:03 am
content: Quote from: Philfreeze on February 26, 2016, 11:04:18 amMy father-in-law used to wear a suit to the beach in the 1960's and early 70's apparently when he took the family to the beach. That's not a bathing suit. That is a formal suit and tie. I have heard of people wearing birthday suits to the beach, but I think that might be illegal here.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:00:14 am
content: Quote from: MarkDennehy on February 24, 2016, 05:19:05 pmReal engineers only wear a tie on casual-friday.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 09:55:59 pm
content: Before we both retired, my wife referred to "casual Friday" as "clown-pants day".