Good Compact Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Lance
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 07:21:23 am
content: I'm going to be going away from home to do my EE at uni, and I want to take a decent set of tools with me. I'm set for almost everything, however I don't have an oscilloscope I can reasonably take with me. Reason being I may end up in a residence where space will be at a very big premium. I know both Dave and a bunch of the folks here say that USB scopes are useless, but is that really the case?With my bench one I don't usually don't need more than two channels, and since the work I'm doing is fairly basic I don't need any insanely fast stuff. The highest frequencies I've ever measured are oscillators from microchip pics at 32MHz. I'm not really too familiar with the specifics, hence why I'm asking. Are there any USB scopes that will do an adequate job, or should I just get another standalone unit?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 07:29:32 am
content: The thing with USB scopes is that the USB transmission line is slow in comparison to the amount of data you ideally need to send to the pc although maybe USB3.0 specs with 10x the capacity of USB2.0 will change this. it does mean you have to have a laptop in tow anywhere you go. Surely something like the rigol or equivalent is not that big ?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 08:15:37 am
content: Quote from: Simon on May 21, 2011, 07:29:32 amwhy we need so much faster data transfer? who's going to process that? how much fps the so called adequate data transfer?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 08:31:23 am
content: from what I understand you don't get such a good real time view of signals (or any at all)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 08:42:39 am
content: One of the best small 'proper' scopes I've seen is the Owon HDS range. Performance is pretty good but unfortunately let down by a poor user interface and a near-uselessly slow DMM mode. It is entirely useable once you get used to it, it's just a pity that it could be so much better with decent firmware.I have the older version there are somenew ones out now (-N suffix)that have seperate buttons for each channel, which may be better.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 08:47:51 am
content: I agree with Simon.The Rigol is pretty darn small, and I think there are a few with marginally smaller footprints. But really, if you don't have room for a Rigol then something is seriously wrong!Dave.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 09:28:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2011, 08:47:51 amwhats wrong is he is a student going some place far from home hopefully to make a fortune in ee. he'll not sure he'll even have enough space for himself. i can imagine his going to leave home with a big heavy bag. and all inside are just clothes, some books perharps. and thats not including boxes of equipments for pc, other survival kit and lots of beers. (at least thats was me long time ago... but without the beers)as with my experience with downloading data to pc from rigol. if you need to see a random fancy dancing graph, then a bulletspeed data transfer you'll need, but doing my practical stuff, usually we'll set the dso to normal or single shot, once captured, the software will keep downloading the triggered graph for so many times again and again, so this tells me that, practically, super speed data transfer is not necessary, whats important is the trigger mechanism in the dso hardware to catch the required events. once triggered, it will download it to pc at decent speed. 30fps is enough to make you dizzy looking at the random graph. and of course we are not talking (and should not expect) z-axis intensity mapped dso here which will cause another fortune. the problem with usb scope though, is if you are unfortunate to get the crappy software from manufacturer.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 09:32:45 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2011, 08:47:51 amThe Owon footprint is somewhat smaller, and performance comparable, although for mostly bench use, you probably want something with real knobs on like the Rigol. The Owon probably has the best scope-per-square-inch footprint ratio, but at a significantly higher price.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 09:37:26 am
content: well price is another factor. Presumably a student does not have a big budget and low end stand alone DSO's seem to be the best bang for buck in performance and functionality. I think cheap DSO's is going to eventually push USB thingy's out of the low end market but high end units may well have their advantages as PC connectivity speeds and flexibility grows

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 10:20:41 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 21, 2011, 09:28:59 amI love the idea to become your room mate , if you get back in school !!I will bring and all my DMM's too with me, and the analog one.Just bring the beers ... LOL

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 12:25:32 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on May 21, 2011, 09:28:59 amI can picture him walking across the grounds like in Revenge of the Nerds!C3njjD41f48The Rigol will be a chick magnet, no doubt!Dave.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 12:27:46 pm
content: hehe, yea even I had a girl entertained for 5 minutes with mine

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 12:47:42 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on May 21, 2011, 10:20:41 amno chance! i'll hide and lock all of them under the bed. the only thing that work is to exchange 1 bottle = 1 dmm, no dmm no talk!to avoid somebody got pissed off with this nonsense... here:$175 B&K 25 MHz B&W DSO at Grainger.com$350++ rigol? ds1052e (and then hack to 100MHz)$220 Hantek DSO2250 USB 250Msa/s USB Oscilloscope 2CHand if you want to score some chicks later on.. this..$196 ARM DSO203 Nano V2/Quad Pocket Digital-Oscilloscope 72MSa/Sand if you got big pocket but no space, do a review on picoscope for us.picoscopenot to forgotHantek DSO1060 Hanheld Oscilloscope 60MHznever have any experience with those, except rigol. just doing op a favor googling, many option many style!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 12:49:21 pm
content: The thread raises an interesting point though. Is there any decent digital bench scope with a significantly smaller footprint than the rigol?Dave.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 01:13:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2011, 12:49:21 pmI think the problem is people have come to expect a scope to be a particular shape, and any scope needs a minimum number of controls at a minimum size, so maintaining the same shape with reduced size is going to make the controls too small.There is the occasional oddball like Yokogawa who made some mac classic style scopes with a vertical form factor,And although this makes sense for bench use, it is less useful for over-bench equipment shelves as the screen ends up too high, and even they seem to have moved away from this form factor. Lecroy have their gimmicky swivelling screen scope, but I see no reason in principle why you couldn't make a scope like the Rigol that could be stood on its end, and have it auto-rotate, i-pad style.You could even make a scope with a touchscreen and overlay the controls on the screen, but at the end of the day the T&M market is very conservative and anything unusual, even if significantly better, is going to have a hard time getting into the market.In practice the only way you're going to get a significantly smaller footprint is to go for a handheld, at the expense of fiddlier controls and higher cost.

author: Lance
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2011, 05:22:13 pm
content: So many fast replies!The thing is that the dorm rooms at the uni aren't overly huge. Most of the available storage space will be taken up by books, and school material. I'm sure I could fit one of those little Rigols in, or even a Tektronix scope. However I don't wanna take up more space than I need to because I still don't know where I'll end up. I'm not in a big rush right now at all.One of those handheld units actually looks pretty useful. Then again they can cost as much as a regular bench unit.

author: Ronnie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 01:15:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 21, 2011, 12:25:32 pmIf this is the case then I should be buying a Rigol in the near future. I hope other brands (I'm using a Tek scope) will be chick magnet as well

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 08:13:00 am
content: Quote from: Ronnie on June 22, 2011, 01:15:50 amin that case, you should look for dso nano or ipod dso. a crap dso by eevblog standard, but i believe its more chick magnet you can bring to a party, probing their heartbeat rate, blood and sugar pressure

author: scrat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 11:19:44 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 22, 2011, 08:13:00 amEspecially the heart beat!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 01:46:40 pm
content: I recently posted areview of the new Owon

author: Lance
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 04:53:51 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 22, 2011, 01:46:40 pmI saw. Looks alright. To be honest I'm not sure I'm going to need one for this semester. Are there any other companies you could suggest I look at for a compact/mobile solution?The one thing I'm stuck thinking about is what happens after school. Such a tool may not be useful to me, all I'd really need is a good ol' bench scope. I don't see myself doing the sort of work that requires such a tool. I wonder if such a tool is worth the investment then.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2011, 05:34:48 pm
content: What's your budget?It's a good 'scope but is beyond the budget of most students.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-OWON-HDS3102M-N-Digital-Oscilloscopes-/280600001022?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41551039feA really cheap 'scope is better than nothing but not much use.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2011, 08:00:14 am
content: QuoteTest equipment has good resale value - probably better than any other type of electronics.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2011, 08:29:14 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 23, 2011, 08:00:14 amFrom a well known, reputable brand. However an Owon? Especially taking their usual build quality into account.And in general, the value of the old '70th and '80 test equipment rests in the fact that many of these were not only build solid as a tank, but a lot of them can still be repaired easily. That won't happen with the stuff build and sold today.IMHO, if you buy some of the cheap Chinese stuff today (Owon, Atten, Hantek, Rigol, ...) you should be prepared that you have to throw it away in a few years, once it is out of warranty and breaks. The high-end brands (Agilent, Tek, LeCroy, ...) will offer something like 10 years of service. However you will probably figure out that it won't be economical to let them repair old equipment and that it is then more economical to invest the money in a new (throw-away) instrument.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2011, 12:56:11 pm
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on June 23, 2011, 08:29:14 amObviously cheaper brands will hold value less well than better ones, however after the initial depreciation from new, test gear value tends to level off, as the requirements don't really change much, and there is minmal wear-out due to age. A 60MHz scope has been adequate for general-purpose electronics work for the last couple of decades, and will be so for at least a decade more.The only thing that changes is the entry cost of similar spec new kit, but test gear doesn't have the volumes that have pushed down prices on other consumer electronics, and the rate of introduction of new models is a lot slower.In some respects cheaper kit has the advantage that it generally uses standard off-the-shelf parts instead of unobtainable custom chips used by the likes of Agilent and Tek, so its long-term repairability could actually be better in some cases.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2011, 12:15:27 am
content: Quote from: Lance on May 21, 2011, 05:22:13 pmRemember: you can always store things under the bed, specially when your room is a mess and you have to tidy it up quickly because someone's coming.

author: Ronnie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2011, 01:25:34 am
content: Quote from: BoredAtWork on June 23, 2011, 08:29:14 amThe cheapest LeCroy scope is WaveAce 101 40 MHz 2 Channel for $710http://www.tequipment.net/LeCroyWaveAce101.htmlCheapest Tektronix is TDS1001B 40 MHz 2 Channel Monochrome for $940.50http://www.tequipment.net/TektronixTDS1001B.aspAgilent's cheapest is DSO1002A 2-channel, 60 MHz at $1,142http://www.tequipment.net/AgilentDSO1002A.aspThe average price of the three cheapest scopes from high-end brands is $930 more than twice the price of Rigol DS1052E

author: Lance
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2011, 07:12:08 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 23, 2011, 08:00:14 amI guess that's true. I'm surprised such tools don't last that long. Those LeCroy scopes are so...black. Performance over aesthetics though.Quote from: ivan747 on June 24, 2011, 12:15:27 amGood point. I'll shop around and see what's good for me.

author: Armin_Balija
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2011, 07:42:33 pm
content: I was thinking about getting this one.http://www.saelig.com/PSBEB100/PSBEB100003.htmIt looks pretty good and the price is just right. If anyone has this what do you think of it?