Beginner Test Gear - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 08:13:16 pm
content: Hi EEVBlog community,So you can consider me a NOOB at electronics, I can do basic Arduino and stuff, but I do not have any decent gear, multi-meter or bench supply.I know there is a lot of information about good beginner gear and I am trying to sort through it all, I do not see anything in my price range (which is not much roughly 50 or so dollars for the meter.) I found a bench multi-meter aKeithly 175and wondered if it would be worth getting(for giggles maybe?) or should I just get a hand held meter. Like the Extech EX330 from Dave's $50 meter video. (Any Recommendations?)I also have seen Dave's videos on the Korad power supply, and have seen it mentioned as a good supply for beginners, but again, being 15 I don't have a steady income of cash, so my budget is limited sub 100 at best. I know I could just get an off the wall PC psu and put some banana jacks on it, but I was hoping for a variable supply but will return to that if I must. I don't need anything fancy 0-30 volts with 2 or 3 amps will be plenty. A load switch is a plus, if there isn't one I can always install one myself on the output.Thanks,Austin

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 08:33:14 pm
content: Define what you are going to do. Then think about how to do it. Use imagination.Simple example: if you are only going to use Arduinos, then there's little point in getting a generic PSU - a wall wart plus dedicated 3.3V and/or 5.5V regulator will be smaller, cheaper and just as effective.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 08:33:43 pm
content: Get yourself a hand held meter or two. Amprobe 510 is decent and it's in your price range.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 08:34:56 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 14, 2015, 08:33:14 pmSome sort of current limit is very handy for beginners, as it can save them from frying components due to overcurrent when they have a short. So I would definitely recommend a current limiting supply of some sort.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 08:37:15 pm
content: I agree, a current limiting supply can be very useful even for tiny breadboard circuits.This one is decent (you mentioned it) and has been reviewed by Dave (they fixed the issue he found, quite quickly at that):http://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KD3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00FPU6G4E/$95 can be a lot when you are just getting started out, but a DMM (or two, so you can measure current at the same time, second one can be a cheapie), current limiting supply, a breadboard, soldering iron, and some parts are the bare minimum (in my opinion).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 09:43:43 pm
content: Quote from: dadler on July 14, 2015, 08:37:15 pmI wonder how I managed to design, manufacture, debug and use a computer (Altair-8080 class). All I had was a 25W soldering iron, one analogue multimeter, LEDs and potentiometers as input devices, and a scratchbuilt power supply.Use your imagination, debug in tiny steps verifying your understanding at each step.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 09:49:09 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 14, 2015, 09:43:43 pmYour list isn't much different from what I am recommending? The power supply doesn't have to be some programmable crazy thing.I just think that current limiting can prevent you from destroying your components early on. You need some sort of power supply, so *in my opinion* current limiting is a "bare minimum" as it prevents you from destroying circuits, starting tiny fires, and can be a good learning tool.You can implement the current limiting in your self-built supply, which would be a good first project.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 10:01:13 pm
content: The thread is old and the products have changed, but have a look at this thread for an idea for a very low budget lab.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/the-$250-electrnoics-lab-a-suggested-setup-for-beginners/msg265338/#msg265338It is good enough to start and learn, but if you have a bigger budget then the first thing I would suggest to upgrade is a multimeter to a UT139C and a better power supply as has been suggested.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 10:09:03 pm
content: Quote from: dadler on July 14, 2015, 09:49:09 pmI've got one of these:http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=CPS-3205It's compact, silent, and seems to work well enough.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2015, 10:59:29 pm
content: Ball park area of where you are located? Maybe someone will donate something...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 12:09:12 am
content: Quote from: dadler on July 14, 2015, 09:49:09 pmSorry, I didn't make my intentions clear. I agree there is little difference in our positions, my comments were aimed at those that think you need many things before you can even start.The only quibble I have with what you wrote is that I think a PSUwithoutexplicit current limiting is a good learning toolAs for making your own, yes, but... One of the reasons PSUs sued to be so unreliable was that experienced engineers didn't want to design them - and so they were given to the inexperienced engineersA poor PSU is averygood learning experience!

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 12:59:27 am
content: Do you have an old computer with an ATX Power Supply? Consider one ofthese. They have 1A fuses on each voltage output and you can do a lot with the basic fixed voltages.And checkout the Brymen TBM251which is aGreenlee DM-200Aon Amazon for $83.But, it's not going to be long before you will need a scope to figure out the real problems. Especially if you're doing projects with your Arduino.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 01:36:36 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2015, 12:09:12 amHaha! Indeed.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 06:58:45 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2015, 12:09:12 amThere is an enormous gulf between "making your own supply" & "designing your own supply".There are plenty of well designed analog circuits with short cct,overcurrent & regulator failure/over voltage protection out there that a beginner should be able to build.Once you start specifying adjustable current limitation,etc,it gets complex fast.Does it really matter if the OP cooks a few components?He isn't rebuilding some rare device with "unobtainium" parts-----one cooked Arduino,& he will learn to be more careful!!That said,your comment about new Engineers getting the job of designing Power supplies rings true.Sony,out of 10 different models of Picture Monitors & TV Sets,would have 10 different PSU designs.Sanyo,on the other hand,used one basic supply almost everywhere.We had a theory that Sony Senior Engineers got sick of having the newbies underfoot & sent them off to design power supplies.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 07:21:41 am
content: Get the Keithley before someone else does. Excellent brand (0.03%+1 on DC volt), datalogging, 20,000 count and true RMS (100kHz). It will serve you well.http://www.utwente.nl/tnw/slt/doc/apparatuur/multimeters/keithley175.pdf

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 07:43:02 am
content: Actually I think I found even a better buy if the OP is in the UShttp://www.ebay.com/itm/KEITHLEY-197-AUTORANGING-MICROVOLT-DMM-w-Manual-/301688304757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463e063475

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:45:54 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 15, 2015, 07:43:02 amThat's not a 'buy it now' price. It will end up much higher in 4 days.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:50:51 am
content: Ooops! Sorry, yes you are right. I must have had my filters set up wrong.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:54:05 am
content: Still worth keeping an eye on it, if no one else is interested.

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 09:05:30 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 14, 2015, 08:33:14 pmCurrently everything I do is Arduino based. I want to expand into other things I just haven't had the time, or resources, to do so. I'm trying to change that.Quote from: dadler on July 14, 2015, 08:37:15 pmI have all the basic stuff, soldering equipment, breadboards, etc. I guess i'm just sick of hooking up 7805s and the lot. I have looked at that power supply but I just can't afford it. Are any of the 40-60 dollars one hung low chinese supplies on eBay worth my time? they have 0-30v and 0-2 or 3 amps. No mention of over current protection, which would be nice, but like vk6zgo said, if I fry my Arduino i'm sure i'd figure it out real quick.Quote from: MarkF on July 15, 2015, 12:59:27 amTo be honest I am working on something right now that a scope would be very convenient to probe some transistors, no luck, but baby steps.Quote from: Lightages on July 15, 2015, 07:43:02 amI have found several other Keithley meters around ebay. What is the difference between the multimeter labeled ones e.g. 169 and 175 and the one called a Microvolt e.g 177. Does that just insinuate it can measure microvolts? Free shipping is really needed. Most of these meters are out of my price range with the ridiculous 20+ dollar shipping. The 169 I prob wont get, but its there in case. 3 digits isn't enough if I remember from Dave's videos.3 Meter Bundlewould it be worth trying to score this at a lower price, considering none of the meters are confirmed working, and looked pretty rough? A score of 3 meters for that price would be worth it however.I'd like to thank everyone for their input, even if I didn't quote you I read it all and am considering it all.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 09:28:30 am
content: Quote from: austin2118ace on July 15, 2015, 09:05:30 amDitch the breadboards - you'll spend longer debugging their bad connections and excess capacitance/inductance than you do debugging your circuits.I concur with hooking up 7805s! Consider using a wall wart plus things likehttp://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GMCKB22orhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EYT1DWWorhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GX3YWNEbut take the max current ratings with a pinch of salt unless your fingers are made of asbestos or you want to use the PSU as a soldering iron.QuoteA scope is undoubtedly convenient, especially if you have poor layout/construction practices. Be aware that there are traps for the unwary with scopes and probes; before you start using them have a look athttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 06:06:26 pm
content: Forget those bashed up Keithleys. You don't need to buy junk and hope you can fix it. If you are short on money that is a bad bet.If you can spend up to $50, it is hard to beat the Amprobe AM510 or the Uni-T UT139C for value and build quality. I personally would recommend the UT139C as I have used it and it does everything most people need or want.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325You can trust this seller. He is iloveelectronics here on the forum. PM him and he might be able to give you a better deal.If you can't manage the $50, then there are many choices, but many bad ones. You can get something useable for the bench but not the greatest for around $17. I did a video review on one of them, the UT136B:Just don't use cheap meters like this for high energy circuits, bench use only.

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:37:11 pm
content: Wouldthisbe worth trying to get. Judging from the state of the equipment I will assume this is gonna get rather expensive within the next 5 days?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:48:16 pm
content: Quote from: austin2118ace on July 15, 2015, 08:37:11 pmYou really want a few handhelds before you go out and buy a bench DMM. These bench DMMs are specialized for high resolution measurements, which doesn't necessarily make them good all purpose meters.That meter you linked can't measure frequency, may not have the True RMS module for AC, doesn't have continuity, nor diode tester. Not to mention it's a few decades old. How are you going to check and see if it's true?Get a new handheld. If you're on a tight budget, get an Amprobe 510 or the Uni-T Lightgages suggested. It's a no brainer. There is no substitute for a hand held DMM.

author: dadler
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:48:49 pm
content: That auction will probably end somewhere between $50-$150.I suggest a handheld DMM. Save the bench meter for much later.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 08:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: dadler on July 15, 2015, 08:48:49 pmThat too. Also doesn't come with accessories, so he has to buy the probes at the very least as well. And as always with Ebay it's a crap shoot whether or not it will work or be in spec. For a meter without continuity and a diode test it's exactly the wrong DMM for a first meter.

author: commie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 09:42:37 pm
content: If you are on a really tight budget, then there's really only one option, buy a Rigol DS1054Z. With this instrument you can measureeverythingwith reasonable accuracy.

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 10:07:54 pm
content: Quote from: commie on July 15, 2015, 09:42:37 pmI'd love a scope, but I don't have any room in my budget for one, IF I got one I'd have to try and scrounge an old analog scope from eBay.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 10:19:58 pm
content: Maybe a USB scope as an alternative? Take a look at the hantek 6022be thread. Better than nothing...

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 10:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2015, 09:28:30 amI design digital circuits based on 32 bit microcontrollers (PIC32s in DIP packages). I put them on breadboards all the time and I've never -never- had problems with bad connections or excess C or L. And that's with a 30 year old Heathkit ET-3300 breadboard (I like vintage electronics).Granted, I'm not doing RF circuits on the breadboard, and the signals on the breadboard are relatively slow (e.g. 115200 bps UARTs, 1kHz clocks, PWM, etc. - though putting an 8MHz crystal on the microcontroller works too).The OP says he's doing "basic Arduino and stuff". I think breadboards will be just fine for him.- Bob

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 10:55:13 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on July 15, 2015, 10:31:25 pmI agree, never have had an issue with breadboards myself.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 11:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: rea5245 on July 15, 2015, 10:31:25 pmActually, let me amend that. Iamdoing RF circuits on the breadboard - sort of. I buy an RF module or a Bluetooth module or a GPS module and plug it into the breadboard. Since the signals on the breadboard are just UART signals, it works great. I don't have the skills to do RF from scratch, so I'd be buying the modules anyway.So breadboards don't prevent you from doing projects with RF in them either.- Bob

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2015, 11:26:31 pm
content: Ok, for a REALLY tight budget this is what I'd suggest:UT136b meter as suggested by Lightages. I have one and you can't beat it for the price.This power supply. - Yes, it's low quality. I have one for breadboarding on my regular desk for when I don't feel like working in my basement lab and it works fine. 15V, 1A is plenty for most things. No, it doesn't have an adjustable current limit. But, it does limit at one amp and has a nice loud alarm when it does -this has saved my butt a few times... It also has a voltmeter built in which can come in handy if you're short on multimeters. For the price, it's a bargain IMO. Just crack it open and double check the chassis grounding and line fusing for safety before using it (mine was fine).And for an ultra tight budget scope, I agree with daybyter. Consider theHantek 6022BE. I have no personal experience with it but based on the long thread here about it, it's usable and you can't beat the price.So, for $115 in total, you'll have 3 usable pieces of equipment and can then start saving for better gear later on.That's my $0.02.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 12:06:52 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 15, 2015, 11:26:31 pm+1Good sound advice IMHO.You'll always wish for better TE but you have to start somewhere, and it's all gear that will be handy to have later on when you might have better stuff.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 01:32:02 am
content: Quote from: daybyter on July 15, 2015, 10:19:58 pmSave your money for a real scope. The USB scopes are not 'Better than nothing', they are 'nothing'. The Hantek 6022BE has a sample rate of 48MSa/s. If that is divided for two channels (like most do), your useful bandwidth would be closer to 8MHz signals. Remember from sampling theory, you need at least two samples to represent a frequency. That also means at the 20MHz bandwidth they claim you will ONLY see 2.4 samples on 1 channel. Not very useful. You would want at least 10 samples minimum to be able to see any shape at all.It will NOT be able to find problems on a 16MHz Arduino.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 01:46:32 am
content: Uhm...it depends on the problem...So I did some Arduino stuff and my 6022 was actually helpful. That is because my Arduinos don't really do I/O with 16MHz. In my last project they did I/O to a c64 board. In my current project, they do audio input and output. In both cases, I could check signals with this scope. And it was also helpful while I was repairing old computer gear. So it is no 1054z, but definitely not useless to me.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 02:22:38 am
content: Just a little picture to illustrate. With only one channel the four different frequencies are shown. if you're going to be looking at audio (below 20 KHz), you will be fine. However if you're trying to get a LCD display working with hardware SPI rates of 4 MHz or greater, it will not help much. You will just be able to see the pulses. But, forget about seeing any noise spikes that could be the problem. Turn on both channels and you bandwidth will be halved.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 02:26:52 am
content: I haven't used that Hantek but I've used the Bitscope. I just find USB scopes to generally be poor in implementation. I have very low confidence in readings I get with them.I only got it for when I travel because you can't beat the size but even when I measure things with it it's always a pain, and it never really gives me any confidence that I am capturing the right thing. It's little more than a toy really.I am of the opinion like the person above said that you should save your pennies for a real scope. Scopes are more affordable today than ever. You can get a 500 Ms/s Siglent for $279. And if you're going to save that much then might as well save $100 more and get twice as capable Rigol DS1054z. Spending your money on toys isn't going to get you there any faster.

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 10:00:35 pm
content: Hi Guys,I found three potential multi-meters theAmprobe AM-510, theUNI-T UT61Dor theAmprobe AM-520Which should I get, they are similar prices on Amazon. The UNI-T seems to have more features, True RMS and Data logging. But the Amprobe just seems to be higher quality to me? There are two Amprobe meters, both in my price range. Will the cheaper one suffice, or should I go for the one thats a bit more?Thanks,Austin

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 10:18:53 pm
content: I like the Amprobe over UNI-T. I think the build quality is better. AM-520 gets you Temp, bargraph and min/max over the AM-510, which are all useful. AM-520 is what I would get.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 11:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 14, 2015, 10:01:13 pmJust a <<<<< Link Typo - correction >>>>>>https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/the-$250-electrnoics-lab-a-suggested-setup-for-beginners/msg265338/#msg265338

author: austin2118ace
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 19, 2015, 04:10:36 am
content: I decided to get the AMProbe Am-520 and will save up for the Korad power supply, or make my own from an atx psu.I'd like to thank everyone for their help.-Austin