Cheap Mantis? Help please? Somewhat urgent :) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 10:59:30 am
content: Hey Gang!A local dentist has listed 3 Mantis Stereo Microscopes on craigslist, asking for only 300 each!They look fairly old though, and I don't have any modell number or anything...I was hoping someone familiar with them could have a look and tell me if these (if they are still working) are any good for PCB work? At that price?Or are they useless for PCB work?If it seems these modells might be usable, Ill go and have a lookThank you!

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:23:33 am
content: Buy them all.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:24:04 am
content: Given that he was probably using them for working on dentures, dental implants, retainers etc. (I can't see him trying to stick one over someone's mouth), I'd say that they probably do have the right order of magnification for electronics use.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:31:25 am
content: That was my though as well.About the same scale.Plus if there are 3 I can always see which one is in the best condition?Anything I should look out for? What could be broken?scratches on the optics? Missaligned optics?

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:31:41 am
content: Maybe he was using it to prepare the fake tooth on the table BEFORE to place it in someone mouth.They are wonderful machine, I see no additional lenses so you maybe want to buy a 4x one for electronic work. Beware Mantis lens are NOT cheap.300€ is a bargain if they work properly, if the mirrors inside are cracked or missaligned it's a PITA to get them working again:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/mantis-microscope-repairteardown/msg1431487/#msg1431487

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:33:22 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on May 19, 2020, 11:31:41 amIs there anything I can do to quickly test them in the field?I have 0 experience with them, only ever drooled at them on the inter-webs:)

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:36:29 am
content: Use them, if the image looks 3D and clean you are good to go.Missaligned mirrors create a double images... like when you drink too much.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:39:28 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on May 19, 2020, 11:36:29 amSo just look throught it at something at about desk height and check if it looks good? I can handle that.Thank you!

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:42:17 am
content: I don't own one myself, so take this as just my guess.but i imagine you should be able to plug one in, turn the light on and confirm- You can see an image- The image is 3D- You can focus it and both eye images matchNote that, with a mantis, you have to position your head in the right location so the 2 images gets to the correct eyeball.If you view at an odd angle you might think something is wrong when it's not.The hardest bit testing them is probably getting them to sit in a good position without needing to bolt them to a desk.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:48:25 am
content: You are welcome and Psi is right.Since you are drooling so much, it looks like you will fit very wellhere.BTW: Dentists are very useful for us, ask for used scalers (usually they give them away for free since for them a dull scaler is garbage...) and oil free air compressors. They can be very useful in a EE Bench.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 11:53:36 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on May 19, 2020, 11:48:25 amI will join TEA after this accquistionWill ask for other stuff they are selling, but they have nothing listed!

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 01:50:14 pm
content: First: if they are OK, buy them all with some discount. Then sell the other two at Ebay and you have the one for yourself for free.Though you should take care of:1) it seems the mounting pads are missing (the ones the foot of the Mantis is based on)If they are missing: they are quite expensive. They should be around if they used the Mantis there. Probably still mounted at the working desks. Make sure you get them. This is how they look like:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1511766774322) It looks like there are only 2x and 4x lenses applied.The 2x lens is usually useless for PCB work.The 4x lens is OK, better would be a 6x lens, though then working space between lens and PCB is getting short. If you can get your hand on a 6x SLWD (super long working distance) lens it is the best solution: 6x magnification AND a large working space.4x lens is 86mm working distance, 6x lens is 55mm working distance; 6x SLWD is 112 mm, 8x and 10x is 41mmIf you only want to purchase one unit and you want to pick the best one:Make sure the joint between arm and the Mantis head is not cracked.Check the lamps and their cover below, also the vent should be running smoothly after powering up.(side note: I would replace the lamps by LED anyway and when doing this you can disconnect the vent).When checking the optics you first need to adapt the head to your eye spacing. I am attaching the manual for this - see chapter "Adjusting the Eye Spacing (IPD)".Good luckP.S. I shall note, that I also do own a regular Nikon stereo microscope for PCB work but since I purchased the Mantis, the stereo microscope was not used anymore (maybe two or three times).Edit: make sure the inner optics/mirrors are not full of dust! It is almost impossible to clean them correctly and you cannot remove them without disaligning everything.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 02:18:36 pm
content: Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 01:50:14 pmThank you for the detailed info!Will definetly ask about the base/mount.Will definetly have a look at what lense is installed. I asked and they said they werent sure off hand, but said we can definetly check when you are here. Arranging meeting now.If the optics are OK I will probably buy them no matter what lense is installed. I don't have any microscope right now, so anything is an upgrade. Plus I can always get different lenses down the road.On the offchance I can't power them up, would the optics still work or are they covered? Is power only for the light?I have played with the idea of buying all 3, but that is a lot of money up front. 1 alone is pretty steep for me as a student, but I feel like I wont get this kind of deal again. Especially so close to my place. I dont know if I would want to risk that.... I guess if they are all in great condition I might think about it again.... If they are working OK, what could I expect to get for them on ebay?

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 02:21:29 pm
content: Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 01:50:14 pmThose 3 hints are worth their weight in gold! You are amazing

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 02:25:02 pm
content: I guess I really would be looking for 4x-6x (with the extra long workding distance if possible)

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 03:39:53 pm
content: Don't worry, the power is for the light only (and the fan). If you cannot test this it is not a big deal. There is just a transformer, a rectifier and the lamps / fan. Easy to repair if faulty.What I can see on the photos: the first one in the front got a 2x and a 4x lens. The middle only one lens (2x?) and I am not sure about the one in back (looks like a 4x lens). Anyway, if you purchase only one, make sure you get both the 2x lens (for selling) and the 4x lens. There is no 6x lens on the photos (you can easily tell by the length).If you sell a unit at Ebay you can expect at least! 500 Euros (usually 600 or 700), thats why I said buy all three and sell two = one for free for you (if they are all OK).A used 6x lens will be around 100 Euro, a 6xSLWD lens is very hard (almost impossible) to get. Expect a purchase price of at least 200 Euro, probably much more.

author: giovannirat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pm
content: Hi TheSchilk,these microscopes have been listed for an long time on "willhaben" now (I think 6 month at least...).So probably the seller is willing to accept a lower price.......I was very lucky to get a Mantis (with an original 6x and 10x lens), even at a much lower price in the same place....A very helpful tool. Regarding the lens have a look onhttps://www.thingiverse.com/thing:222849where a member build a loupe lens and a SLWD lens for really cheap.I build the loup lens and it works great, SWLD is the next one...If you need more information, feel free to ask.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:05:30 pm
content: Quote from: giovannirat on May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pmHello fellow austrianYup that is where I saw them. I did not notice them until today because they were not labeled/categorised very well. (or I am ingnorant of the fact that 'telescope' is a word used for these.. )I hope to maybe talk him down a bit, or at the very least have my pickings at the lenses usw. I want.Do you mean you got your mantis on willhaben or from the same guy?Quote from: giovannirat on May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pmThat looks like an interesting project! I can use a 3d printer at uni (whenever I get back)! Will definetly have a look, good to hear that it worked for you!Danke fuer die hilfe

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:11:13 pm
content: Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 03:39:53 pmThat makes my life a lot easier. Also makes the LED upgrade seem very feasable!Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 03:39:53 pmAs has been mentioned it seems that these have been up for sale for quite a while, so I am hopefull I can maybe squeeze down the price and grab the lenses I want. I can definetly live with just the 2x and 4x for now, especially because I am not actively looking for a microscope. When they pop up, I can snag them.Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 03:39:53 pmOh boy. That really sounds tempting. But I am already scraping at the ends of the hobby-cash-reserverses. I don't really have the money around to pick up all three. Also storage space is limited (student housing). I agree thought, that would be the ideal solution.Thank you again for the detailed response!

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:15:34 pm
content: Quote from: giovannirat on May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pmA thought: How heavy is your unit?If the seller really does not have the mounting bases, how feasible would it be to construct/3D print a base?Is it just a round post on which the microscope sits and slides?Probably to heavy with lever-action the arm provides thought. Would probably pull apart the layers of a 3d print?

author: giovannirat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 06:43:23 pm
content: It is heavy..In my opinion 3D printing is questionable....Quote from: TheSchilk on May 19, 2020, 06:15:34 pmYesI would go for a metallic base, should be not that difficult to make it with a lathe.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 07:15:37 pm
content: Quote from: TheSchilk on May 19, 2020, 06:11:13 pmIf you can make two good ones you can sell one to help pay for the one you keep.If you get three good ones then yours could end up being completely free.

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 06:37:07 pm
content: Hey all!Sorry that it took me a few days to post this, but I just got back from the honeymoon with my new Mantis MicroscopeI ended up with a fully working Microscope, with base, plus 2x 4x lenses.I did have to wash everything, espc. the lenses were very dirty. The electronics did not work when I got the Unit, but i traced it down to the connection cable being bad. Quick Fix. I reinforce the cable at the spot where it goes through the strain relief just as the original was. Pic attached.The 2x lense has quite a scratch in it, but I much prefer the 4x which is in great condition.No cracks or anything.While i picked the best unit, there was some slight dust inside the optics. The main round mirror also has some very slight degradation on the bottom right, but not very problematic. Only noticeable if you look for it.Quote from: Pinkus on May 19, 2020, 01:50:14 pmWhile reading the manual for the unit it seemed very easy to remove the bottom assembly and get access to the internals without destroying the alignment . So I gave it a go and removed the bottom assembly with the turret. I was able to blow out a large proportion of the dust on the optics, and put the whole unit back together. I can’t notice any difference to alignment but most the dust is now goneI can really see how the 6x SLWD is very appealing. I will keep my eyes out. Maybe Ill try building one myself.I really did consider picking up the other one or two, but they where in worse condition. Plus like I mentioned, cash flow issue.If anybody in the West of Austria is interested, here is the link:https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/mantis-teleskop-zahntechnik-dentaltechnik-3-stk-preis-pro-teleskop-372748218/] https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/mantis-teleskop-zahntechnik-dentaltechnik-3-stk-preis-pro-teleskop-372748218/Thank you all so much for your help!

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 06:39:55 pm
content: Actually while I think of it:Does anybody know if there is any physical difference between lenses for the old and new mantis? Are they interchangeable, or should I be care-full when looking for lenses?Quote from: giovannirat on May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pmDo you notice a big difference in how wide the field of vision is?

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2020, 10:05:21 pm
content: Congratulation, looks like your unit is in a good condition.QuoteNo, not that I know. The mounting thread is definately different.Quote from: giovannirat on May 19, 2020, 04:39:16 pmDon't promise yourself too much of that. I had already made that mistake. I tried that one from Thingiverse out and the outcome was not satisfiying at all. The picture is blurry and shows a lot of chromatic aberration. Working for more than a minute was no fun at all.The result probably could have been a bit better with other/better lenses (though I tried the ones which are described at Thingiverse). But I do not have any optics knowledge. Luckily I didn't had to follow that up because by pure coincidence I found another Mantis with the SLWD lens. This SLWD lens is huge and filled with glas. It has its reason that the original lens weighs almost 500g (estimated) and the front glas lens has a diameter of over 5cm - quite a difference to the regular 6x lens and especially to the tiny two-lens Thingiverse try (though I appreciate the effort and work from DogP).

author: TheSchilk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2020, 06:11:27 am
content: Hi Pinkus!Quote from: Pinkus on May 22, 2020, 10:05:21 pmQuote from: Pinkus on May 22, 2020, 10:05:21 pmI guess that all would have been too easyLuckily I am not absolutely dependent on having a specific lense, so I will just play the long con and see if one ever pops upI thought i was quite proficient with soldering, but seeing my board under a microscope is making me reconsider that. Oh boy, that thing is brutally honest.Thank you again for all the help.