Poll: Handheld meters with minimally-annoying auto power off (APO) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 03:03:32 pm
content: Following up on the handheld-vs-benchtop meter debate...Let's make a list of handheld meters that will auto-power-offsilentlythen wake up in the same mode with asingle button press, ie. they aren't annoying to use on the bench all day long.Meters that DO this:Brymen: BM857 BM789 BM235 BM869sCaveat: They lose some settings, eg. manual/autorange mode and min/max/rel values (but if you're doing a long min/max session you need to temporarily disable APO anyway).Meters that power back on with a button but lose the secondary function setting (eg. they APO in continuity mode then come back on in Ohms mode):Fluke: 87, 187, 189, 289Meters that don't have APO (or can disable APO permanently)andhave a really long battery life (1000 hours or more):Fluke: 27FM 37FMOther: DT830 ("Harbor Freight")Meters that beep when turning off and/or require you to turn the dial to wake them up:Fluke: 101Kaiweets: HT118ESpecial hell: Meters that beeptwice- once to warn you they're about to APO then again a minute later when they actually do it.Aneng: AN860 AN870 V04A AN8008Surpeer: AV4

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 03:04:06 pm
content: I'll be testing my meters today, feel free to post results for other models.Edit: Yes, there's meters that allow you to temporarily disable APO by holding down a button at power on. I haven't included those because that's annoying too. I don't think it excuses them from not doing it properly.

author: sonpul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 05:10:51 pm
content: BM789 does this. off silently.Every day, I do not turn off the DMM several times and many times a day I turn it on simply by pressing the yellow button.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 06:41:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2023, 03:03:32 pmAny meter that turns of automatically is annoying for bench use. The same for meters that run out of batteries.I learned that a long time ago.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 06:56:02 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 30, 2023, 06:41:15 pmThe point is that some aremuchmore annoying than others.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 07:26:24 pm
content: Metrix mtx3283 DMM has a setting to disable the auto-off.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pm
content: I don't know if your analysis is really correct here--none of the meters will actually go back to exactly what they were doing in all cases AFAIK. On the Fluke 187/189, for example, it will go back to the first function of the dial setting that it is at, but if you have selected another function or manual range, it will forget that. Try it--set the meter to the VDC dial setting and then use the blue button to select AC+DC, then let it power off. When it comes back on, it will be back to plain VDC. Even if some other meters manage to get past that test, what happens if you had it in a manual range or were using REL or MIN-MAX? I'm betting at the very least it will lose the old REL and MIN-MAX values and it certainly won't have updated during its off time.I don't personally see much difference in annoyance levels since if I'm observing a reading over time or looking at MIN-MAX, just having the meter power off at all is more annoyance than I care to deal with. The only meter I use alonside bench meters for long-term observation is the Fluke 27, since it just stays on virtually forever, doesn't tip over and won't mind too much if I spill coffee on it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:18:05 pm
content: Dunno, use meter then turn it to Off.However there are times when ....where is that DMM ?Somewhere else last used and distracted walked off and left it running to be discovered days later left in some range but APO. Press the range button (Ohms, Diode, Continuity) for Ohms mode and it wakes right up again in the mode in was left in but it is a Fluke 15B.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:25:29 pm
content: I decided that it's easier to disable APO completely as my meters run on rechargeable batteries and replacing them more often is less of a bother..

author: gamalot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:34:13 pm
content: Kyoritsu KEW1021R will beep twice!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:41:08 pm
content: The UT61E does not APO because its optical data output is permanently enabled, whether its interface is inserted or not. APO can be added with modifications to both the meter and the interface (extra IR LED and phototransistor).

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pmThat is incredibly dumb, indeed. A 1 million writes eeprom like the ones in the TV costs peanuts. Could write after each button pressed and never wear out.Another one is the impossibility to disable the warning for a plugged cord in the A socket when switching to volts. Well, I don't have two cords and keep switching them, I have 3 different cords and I would like to keep them plugged at all times. My A cord has a different handle, no way to mix A and V cords by accident.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 08:59:43 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on March 30, 2023, 08:46:31 pmI had a setup like that on a meter I mostly used for automotive. Then one day I was checking a wall outlet in an difficult-to-reach area in an awkward position and of course with an unfused Harbor Freight meter.I can't imagine a manufacturer adding either of your feature requests to any of their products. Why would they want to decrease reliability and increase liability to implement features the vast majority of users wouldn't even know were there?

author: sonpul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 09:33:08 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pmBM789 remembers both AC+DC and all other additional modes on the selector. And after the usual shutdown by the selector and after autopower and after turning on the button after sleep. Everything from the selector remembers.From the buttons above the selector, for example, Range, AutoHold, Rec does not remember. But this is not necessary.

author: sonpul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 09:38:57 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on March 30, 2023, 08:41:08 pmI had UT61E. If you activate APO on UT61E, it beeps unpleasantly, does not remember the selected mode.

author: Anthocyanina
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 10:26:26 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pmfluke 117 also does this, can be brought back to life with a button, but will only go to the primary function of the position the knob is at

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 11:41:55 pm
content: I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Brymen BM235. Best APO behavior ever: APO kicks in after 30 minutes of inactivity.Many meters consider "activity" (for APO purposes) to be button presses or selector rotation. However, the BM235 will reset the inactivity timer for any of these:1) Rotary switch or push button operations2) Significant measuring readings of above 8.5% of ranges3) Non-OL readings for Resistance, Continuity or Diode function4) Non-zero readings for Hz function5) Electric field signal present for EF function6) Significant movement indication as in Phase Rotation functionsMeaning that it more or less won't APO if you are actually using the meter. The readings don't even have to change - they just need to be something significant. If it does APO, there's no beep (why would you need to be notified? you weren't using it anyway), and it can be turned on by pressing the SELECT button. Oh, it will disable APO if you're using the MIN/MAX recording. I think most (all?) meters turn off APO if you're doing any kind of recording.It has a decently long backlight, too (10 minutes). Backlights that turn off after only 15 seconds are just plain stupid. Even turning off after 30 seconds is irritating. Let *me* worry about the battery I'm using up with the backlight.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 12:37:03 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pmSome very good points. I'll try it.The Brymen will obviously remember the function setting - it remembers it when you turn the dial or even power it off.Quote from: mwb1100 on March 30, 2023, 11:41:55 pmBrymen calls it Intelligent Power Off ("IPO"). My BM857 does it, too.(despite not being one of the curvy "modern" ones that people seem to be obsessed with)

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 01:38:35 am
content: All 4.5 digit meters.Brymen BM786 - shuts off (after a long time) without a beep. Comes back where it left off pushing the select button (did not try others)Kaiweets HT118E (I think it to be the best meter for it's price) - shuts off with beep, no warning beep (but I did step out of the room for a minute). Comes back on to default function by pushing any button.Surpeer AV4 (don't judge) - Shuts off beep, has warning beep about 1 minute before shut off beep. Comes back on to default function by pushing the "PEAK" button.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 02:45:50 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2023, 12:37:03 amYep, you're right.My Brymen keeps the function setting correctly but loses any 'Rel' values, etc.The Fluke 187 powers back on when I press a button but it's in the default function for the dial position. eg. If it powered off in continuity it will power back on in Ohms. That would be annoying if I was looking at AC+DC or something like that. I'll demote it.Quote from: bdunham7 on March 30, 2023, 07:55:14 pmYep, those values are lost. You'd have to temporarily disable APO if you were doing that sort of measurement. It only takes a couple of seconds to do though so I don't think it's a biggie unless the battery is about to die.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 03:08:34 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 31, 2023, 01:38:35 amAdded.Doesn't the Surpeer beep on every movement of the dial, too? They really love the sound of the beeper!

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 03:18:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2023, 03:08:34 amYes, it does.But safety in industrial settings and common sense aside, it's not really that bad.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 03:57:41 am
content: My ancient Fluke 77 will not auto power off unless there is a zero reading on the display AND no other activity for a reasonable length of time.The first time I ran into an early model UNI-T, I was surprised that it quite blithely shut down right in the middle of testing some equipment ----apparently, it was just a timer."Great fun" adjusting something, only to have the DMM shut down, just when you were getting close to the right setting.The same meter would start giving incorrect resistance readings due to a dying battery well before its "LOBAT" display came up,andit went through batteries a lot faster than the old 77, which is probably why it used the timer.It put me off UNI-T, but it was, as I have said, an early model.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 04:02:26 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 31, 2023, 03:57:41 amWhat put me off UNI-T was theTOTALlack of any kind of support. I think that company is run by a bot. A not entirely intelligent one either.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 04:04:39 am
content: Auto power off doesn't annoy me anywhere near as much as default to AC current. :Rage:

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 04:08:52 am
content: Quote from: Psi on March 31, 2023, 04:04:39 amNone of the meters I mentioned above do that. They either have a separate position for AC/DC or default to DC.I'm too lazy to go through the rest of my HH meters, but I think at least one does what you say. Apparently I don't use it much.

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 09:12:23 am
content: The Fluke 87III works the same as the Fluke 187 and 189: any button press wakes it, but it reverts to the primary function on that dial position.The 87III does have AC and DC current sharing a dial position, but DC is the default unlike the latest 87V, so it's not been a problem for me. It can just be slightly annoying when using continuity or manual ranging. I rarely use the capacitance function on a multimeter, so haven't had it power off while measuring capacitance.On the 187/189 you can set the power off time to up to 24h, though you'll want to use rechargeable batteries then.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 11:05:36 am
content: Aren't we making things needlessly tricky: there are three categories of multimeters, analogue, those where APO can be turned off and those that can't.I prefer to choose a meter that can be turned off.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 11:53:14 am
content: Quote from: alm on March 31, 2023, 09:12:23 amBut would the rechargeable batteries would last for more than 24hrs?

author: alm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 12:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: BeBuLamar on March 31, 2023, 11:53:14 amThe data sheet specifies battery life as 72h typical on alkaline cells, and modern NiMH batteries have more usable capacity than alkaline (flatter discharge curve). So yes, easily. But obviously there's not much point in having a battery powered meter on for 24h unless you're logging something. The point is that you can set it to long enough so it won't turn off while you're working if you don't mind recharging the batteries every couple of months or so.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 03:05:25 am
content: My often used meter the Fluke 87V, 189, 289, 287 do turn themselves off but they don't bother me much. When logging the 180,287,289 stay on and don't turn themselves off.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 05:26:12 am
content: My Fluke 233 shuts down and it does not notify you with a small beep that it will go to sleep. I was searching for a fault in a not working machine and I found out that that it had 2-3 shorts and then they went away, but the machine refused to start up, the shorts had gone, meter was in (beep) range.It took me another 5-10 minute saying to myself, what the f….ck, there were shorts here and now they’re gone, why?After starting again, swearing with that situation, I found out that the Fluke 233 had fall to sleep without a notice.So now every time I have the meter stay on continuously, disabling it at startup. Couldn’t the makers make them notify you with a small beep?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 05:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: alm on March 31, 2023, 12:34:02 pmThe 187/189 had a battery pack extension so you could use C cells to power them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 05:54:54 pm
content: Quote from: sotos on April 01, 2023, 05:26:12 amWhen I'm looking for continuity I touch the probes together as a test before a reading just to make sure the meter is working and set up correctly.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 06:31:01 pm
content: The free meters from HF have the highest battery life I have measured and a mechanical switch to turn them on and off. Plus the added benefit of each position of the selector switch has only one function. It's the perfect meter if this is the only metric used. And... did I mentioned these are free with purchase....

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 06:46:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 01, 2023, 06:31:01 pmAdded.The metric is "not annoying on the bench" so I guess they count.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 06:57:08 pm
content: They are in many ways better than my first Fluke DMM which was a bench meter. The free meter has longer battery life, smaller, lighter, lower cost. My guess is it just about as electrically robust as the Fluke was too.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 07:16:01 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on April 01, 2023, 06:57:08 pmThey definitely have something going for them in terms of being simple to use and not-annoying. I'm tempted to get some of Big Clive's favorite trashy meter with the Fluke-like holster.https://youtu.be/-QDW0LRQVrY?t=1280

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 08:03:17 pm
content: I'll never buy a multimeter with an "APO" icon on the LCD, that is beyond stupid.Are alkaline batteries made of gold-pressed latinum in china, why does the meter spazz out and beep and then beep and then long beeeeeep it's off, pressing a button to wake up and it BEEPS, and then function/range back to what it was and it's BEEP BEEP BEEP again. Imagine the factory people dying beeped to death from all the noise.Aneng AN8008 defaults: APO time in minutes 15 0xFB: 0x0F, Backlight time in seconds 15 0xFC: 0x0F beep beep beeeeeep beeep beep ahhhh left in the dark where's the buttonz can't see anything LOL. A multimeter that seems to do standup comedy.I have old DMM's with 2,000hr and another with 12,000hr battery life. I can leave them on for days.APO should be smarter - reset the APO timer if there's activity in the readings. Just reading OL or 0.000V etc. then, like a PC screen saver with no mouse movement, turn it off after XX minutes. Look for say a 20% change in readings to reset the timer?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 09:21:52 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on April 01, 2023, 08:03:17 pmSome meters do that.eg. My Brymen does. My Fluke 187 doesn't.I guess the best way to use a 187/189 is to disable auto-power-off completely (or set it to many hours) and use Eneloops.The 187's 72 hours total isn't much lifetime but swapping the 4xAA batteries is quite fast/easy - no rubber boot to remove and just two thumbscrews to get the back off.(I leave mine unscrewed - it's rubbery and stays on just fine by itself).

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 11:57:50 pm
content: Fluke 187/189 lets you set the APO timer to up to 24 hours - or disable it completely - in the settings. Just set it to 4, 6, 8, or whatever hours and forget about it.

author: Per Hansson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 02, 2023, 08:44:46 pm
content: I have another category for you:Aneng AN8009 has auto power off after 15 minutes even if you are actively using it.There is also a beep warning at 14 minutes that it will power off in the next minute.If you hold down the yellow select button when powering on the auto power off is disabled.However the meter still beeps at you after 14 minutes and then 15 minutes.Or put more succinctly:Switch on:00:00 beep!14:15 beep beep beep beep beep!15:15 beep beep beep beep beep!(then powers off).Switch on with SEL held down:00:00 beep beep beep beep beep!14:15 beep beep beep beep beep!15:15 beep beep beep beep beep!(does not power off).29:30 beep beep beep beep beep!30:30 beep beep beep beep beep!(repeats indefinitely).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 02:15:44 am
content: Quote from: Per Hansson on April 02, 2023, 08:44:46 pm

author: py-bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 02:21:22 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 30, 2023, 03:03:32 pmWhat do I vote if my main meter doesn't just go off? I love it because even the backlight stays on until I tell it to turn it off (so I can leave it on reading stuff)

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 08:36:53 am
content: BM869s: turns off without a beep, then, on key press, powers back on to the same function and secondary function where it was. Range isn't preserved though: it goes to auto-range regardless of what was selected.

author: JOSM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 12:31:39 pm
content: KAIWEETS HT206D: Beep before APO. A key press wakes it up again.CEM DT-989 (RND 355-00010, PeakTech 3440, PCE-HDM 10): APO can be disabled. APO timeouts can be configured. 2 key presses wakes it up to primary mode at selected dial.

author: Per Hansson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 05:03:17 pm
content: Quote from: py-bb on April 03, 2023, 02:21:22 amIt is for the category quoted above, if it has decent battery life too.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2023, 05:51:02 pm
content: Does anybody have a Hioki DT4282? I'd love to know how APO works on those. I know you can disable it by holding a button when you power it on but does the backlight stay on? What's the power consumption...?

author: py-bb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 04:55:45 pm
content: I recently got a Venlab VM-600A and to turn off auto-off you hold the function button when you turn the dial from the off position - I thought that was quite good.I actually love it, it's a brilliant thing - my only complaint is the usual: backlight doesn't stay on for very long (I want meters that keep the backlight on until told otherwise or the battery dies!)

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2023, 06:56:48 pm
content: My favorite handheld meter is still theAmprobe 37XR-A:It does a single beep and shuts off after 30 minutes. Move dial to avoid shut off, or move dial to turn it back on.From the manual:The Auto Power Off feature can be disabledto keep the meter from going to sleep...To disable the Auto Power Off feature use the following procedure:1. Set the Function Switch to OFF.2. Press and hold the MIN MAX AVG button while turning the Function Switch from OFF to the desired function. The SLEEP OFF message shows on the display.3. Release the MIN MAX AVG button. The Auto Power Off feature will remain disabled until the meter is turned off and then on.Note:To disable both Auto Power Off and the beeper press and hold the REL button while turning on the DMM.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2023, 01:28:00 pm
content: Maybe one of the meter manufacturers can come up with a meter that does APO only if it doesn't sense any human movement, like some light switches do

author: McCarthy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2024, 05:03:37 am
content: For the record: HIOKI DT4281 and DT4281 let you turn off any sleep and auto shut-off with the press off the AUTO/HOLD button when turning it on.When its enabled, it will first go into sleep mode. It can be woken with any button.