Hackintosh? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 09:13:13 am
content: I'd like to use Finalcut on a real Mac but I don't have enough budget to buy a new Mac and personally, I do not trust second-hand computers.So I am thinking about making a Hackintosh, but I am not so convinced it's a good idea.I haven't found a good guide yet but foundthiswebsite.What do you think guys about?

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 09:26:31 am
content: Why Final Cut? Davinci Resolve (that even has a capable free version) runs on all 3 major OSs.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 11:30:02 am
content: Making a Hackintosh, I'll have you know, is a criminal violation of the Mom Co. License Agreement.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 11:57:51 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 01, 2020, 09:26:31 amI have also tried "Olive", which is declared as "a professional Open-Source Video Editor for macOSX, Linux, Windows7++", but for me it's unstable, it crashes too often, and worse still it's not productive at all.Davinci Resolve is better than Olive, but FinalCut is the simplest and most productive I have ever tried.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 12:44:57 pm
content: Umm, concerning the question: are Hackintosh Computers Legal? Even if I buy MacOSX from their Apple Store?I have just reread again their license agreement and found I hadn't understood it correctly because when you "buy" OS X software from Apple, you are subject to the terms of Apple’s end-user license agreement, and the EULA provides that first, that you don’t "buy" the software but rather you only "license" it, and here my misunderstanding: of course you can pay for a License from their Apple store, but the agreement tells you that you can run macOSonlyon an Apple computer.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 09:32:06 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on April 01, 2020, 11:57:51 amStill doesn't sound like its worth the extensive effort of a hackintosh. If productivity matters buying a Mac mini should be a no brainer.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2020, 11:46:25 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on April 01, 2020, 09:32:06 pmThat's fine if your needs will be met by a Mac Mini -- and the latest refresh looks pretty decent.I've built several Hackintoshes over the years, but the reason is that I've wanted a high performance programming machine but the Mac Pro goes in a different direction -- they have high end GPUs, massive I/O capability, can take massive amount of RAM and things like this. Which I don't need. I just want lots of fast CPU cores, high turbo speed on single-threaded code, and a moderate amount of RAM. And support for multiple high resolution monitors that will show crisp text in small point sizes, but I don't care at all about 3D.If you want the stuff that Apple puts in the Mac Pro then they are a pretty good deal and you won't save much if anything at Dell or others. It's just that my needs are different.I built a Hackintosh using an i7-860, I think about eight or nine months before Apple started to sell an iMac with that CPU.I built a Hackintosh using an i7-4790K, similarly I think six months before Apple started to sell an iMac with that CPU.I guess I could have just waited for those iMacs, except they cost an awful lot more than I spent, largely because they come with a built in large high quality screen. I prefer to buy my screen separately and keep the same screen over multiple generations of computer. I was using an ancient Apple 30" 2560x1600 screen for about a decade. I've now switched to Samsung 32" 4K monitors (multiple).I haven't built a Hackintosh recently because my work has switched more to Linux, and my 2011 17" quad core i7 MacBook Pro does everything I usually need from a Mac. I also have a 2011 11" dual core i7 MacBook Air which works well for travel (I'm typing this on it now, in a hotel room).I also can, if necessary, crank up OS X in VirtualBox on my 32 core 128 GB RAM ThreadRipper Linux machine. That's slightly slower than Hackintoshing it would be, but not too noticeable.Both Hackintoshing and running in a VM technically violate the license agreement. In practice you're never going to have any problems doing this. Apple seems to only care if you are building and selling Hackintoshes on a commercial basis.I never had any technical problems Hackintoshing. It's probably a bit dodgy to take some random cast-off PC and decide to Hackintosh it, especially if it's something proprietary. The smart thing to do is to buy a motherboard that uses peripherals that are supported by OS X as standard. Then everything Just Works. The Hackintosh sites have lists of Asus, Gigabyte etc motherboard which work well. The only thing that is normally a problem is the sound chip. On my Hackintoshes I had to run a small script to reinstall the sound drivers after any major (and occasionally minor) system updates. Things like ethernet, wifi, hard disks and SSDs, video cards were never a problem. The system was always usable enough to boot it up, log in, and use it to reinstall the sound driver. It would be a different matter if the video card sometimes didn't work or something like that, but that's never happened to me.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 02:15:26 am
content: Buy a junk Mac (doesn't have to work, can be very old indeed) and replace the parts with PC parts. Now you're running OS X on an "upgraded" Mac.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 04:38:03 am
content: Building a hackintosh is fun but if all you want is a computer to use then it's more trouble than it's worth IMO, you always have to watch out for updates that might break it and you have to choose hardware carefully to find stuff that is compatible.Nothing wrong with second hand computers, I've got lots of second hand PCs in various uses, format and install fresh and it's as good as new.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 08:31:02 am
content: Quote from: Ampera on April 01, 2020, 11:30:02 amEULAs have no legal basis in copyright law or anything. It's a scam by greedy corporations and only Americans (and not even all of them) are brainwashed enough into "social order" and "democracy" to tolerate this madness.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 11:20:00 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 01, 2020, 09:32:06 pmAre you using Mac Mini without eGPU to work with Final Cut? Really?Actually, the latest Mac Mini 2020 is just pathetic, they kept CPU from 2018 model and increased min SSD storage from 128GB to 256GB for same price

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 11:27:37 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on April 01, 2020, 11:46:25 pmThere is a 3rd option to run it in KVM!I have tried under PROXMOX underhood, it's works fine.You can PCI/USB/GPU passthrough dedicated hardware and literally have a full running systems (such as Windows/Linux and Mac OS) at the same time with a minimum performance degradation.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2020, 11:32:44 am
content: Quote from: 0db on April 01, 2020, 11:57:51 amDid you tried Vegas Pro?I think - Windows only, a friend of my bought (voucher + promotion) it for 50% of Final Cut price and seems happy enough...

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 10:34:17 am
content: Software-updates are mandatory for me, hence I give up with Hackintosh.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 01:16:09 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 03, 2020, 11:42:18 amApple has used mobile segment CPUs in the past, nothing stopped them to do same this time.They just don't bother and increased a minimum SSD storage do not look too ridiculous and satisfy a crowd with a "new" release.Quote from: blueskull on April 03, 2020, 11:42:18 amDo you think, for example i7-10750H, slower than two years old current offering?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 09:12:41 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 03, 2020, 11:42:18 amMy experience is a 15W i7-8650U in a NUC narrowly but consistently beats a 65W i7-6700 in a tower.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 01:49:32 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on April 03, 2020, 09:12:41 pmYes, there are some outlier parts that really push the compute/watt metric and make it hard to predict real world performance. Unfortunately many of the benchmark workloads are so short they don't see the full cost of throttling.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 03:02:57 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 04, 2020, 01:49:32 amMy usage is build / compilation of various software taking typically from 20 minutes and up on this class of machine. Everything is *well* into maximum throttling long before that point.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 03:07:13 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 04, 2020, 02:17:21 amIn a laptop, yes. I also have an i7-8650u Lenovo X1 Carbon and it takes around 30% longer than the same task on the NUC due to throttling back to around 2.1 GHz instead of 2.8 GHz.QuoteSounds about right. That's certainly what my Kill-A-Watt shows. 6W at idle, around 28W flat out. Quite good cooling in those tiny boxes (at a cost in noise) and certainly far better than a typical laptop.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 03:17:45 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on April 04, 2020, 03:02:57 amThere may well be some other differences between the two machines to have such a clear result in that direction, especially when compute benchmarks put the i7-6700 reliably ahead (even against the top score of the i7-8650U, being a configurable part and common on laptops they score all over the place). Its a confusing mess of specs out there and application specific testing is the only reliable way to compare.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 11:41:07 am
content: Comparing choices with Apple ...MacMiniIntel Core i7 6‑core 8th gen, 3.2GHz (Turbo Boost 4.6GHz)Ram 8GB DDR4 a 2666MHzIntel UHD Graphics 630SSD 256GBGigabit Ethernet (Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000BASE-T, RJ‑45)Final Cut Pro X1839 EuroMacMiniIntel Core i7 6‑core 8th gen, 3.2GHz (Turbo Boost 4.6GHz)Ram 16GB DDR4 a 2666MHzIntel UHD Graphics 630SSD 256GBGigabit Ethernet (Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000BASE-T, RJ‑45)Final Cut Pro X2079 EuroMacBook ProIntel Core i7 6‑core 9th gen, 2.6Ghz (Turbo Boost 4.5GHz)RAM 16GB DDR4 2666MHzAMD Radeon Pro 5300M, 4GB GDDR6SSD 512GBRetina 16" True Tone4xThunderbolt 3Touch Bar + Touch IDFinal Cut Pro X3129 EuroiMacIntel Core i7 6‑core 8th gen 3.2Ghz (Turbo Boost 4.6GHz)Built-in LCD, 21"RAM 16GB DDR4 2666MHzRadeon Pro Vega 20, 4GB HBM2Fusion Drive 1TBMagic Mouse 2Magic KeyboardFinal Cut Pro X2979 Euro

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 02:27:08 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 03, 2020, 03:27:29 pmI doubt that 10750H will be slower, in NUC/Mac Mini form factor context.Quote from: blueskull on April 03, 2020, 03:27:29 pmI run AD on MacBook Pro 13" Retina (late-2013) via VM Fusion then I travel and need a quick and mobile access, that's okay, but I would resist to work on daily basis.Also, ran AD on Mac Mini 2018 (i3, 32GB ram, w/o eGPU) , it's works, yes can do a work in case of emergency, it's pain in a$s...If I travel a lot and need to be mobile constantly, I would choose something like ThinkPad P7x (with Xeon ideally) that usually certified for all sort of CADs, extra couple kilos is not realy pleasent to carry around, waste time on underpower hardware is more critical for me.If office space concern, still any mini-itx board with cheaper AMD 3600X will circle around these lightweight laptops and take same space.In short, right tool for a right job.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 02:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 11:41:07 amIs it for Final Cut?If you don't need to travel, what is a point Macbook pro?IMHO, a new iMac (especially 21") would be a worst decision for a full price, Apple didn't update quite a while.So, Mac Mini left, did you consider your budget for eGPU (enclosure + video card)?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 02:36:33 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 04, 2020, 11:50:43 amNo option any more, the base either i3 256GB or i5 512GB

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 02:34:55 pmyes, dedicated to Final Cut.Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 02:34:55 pmA laptop may be a bonus for travelling. Currently, I do not travel too much.Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 02:34:55 pmConsidered for two reasons:- I only here a poor 17" VGA LCD, while the iMac comes with a builtin 21" LCD- it also comes with a great GPU.Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 02:34:55 pmThinking about it, but which one?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 06:45:00 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 04, 2020, 02:55:07 pmCome on, just cost of 2 years AD subscriptionThese are niche machines, cost of certification and extensive testing (as well as corp customers!) taken in account.That's bizarre that Lenov CN so strict in the homeland.Quote from: blueskull on April 04, 2020, 02:55:07 pmI'm using Quadro P4000 almost 3 years, no issues; of course, I didn't not buy it for Altium only.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 07:27:15 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmAre you planning to travel a lot?Are you going to use a laptop on way or a customer site?Well, these up to you to define what is "bonus" means...I bought Macbook Pro 13" Retina 6.5 years ago and maxed to 16GB/512GB with base i7-4558U CPU.For me: size/weight, longevity and productivity are very much matter, and since it not my only computer power, I're fine to sacrifice CPU cycles.Just a travel and be flexible, still use today, not ideal and how I would like to be, hopefully Apple will release a replacement line 13">14" with a proper hardware in 2020/21.I would say one of best macbook before Apple's keyboard fiasco and cl@sterf%ck with screens etc.FYI, can get 20-30% (depends on a luck) from an initial purchased price on ebay today.Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmThese don't matchWho is on earth buying 21" now?3K euro to spend on iMac? Probably, you can fish 2 (two) decent 27" iMac retina on ebay for same budget and have two attempts to do DIY upgrade laterQuote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmNo personal experience, egpu.io is your friend and don't forgethttps://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208544Only suggestion to look for an upgrade option, for example chear RX 580 initially and Radeon Pro WX / RX years laterNot sure how many people here familiar with Final Cut, perhaps you have better chance to find out more on macrumors or similar.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 09:54:25 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 07:27:15 pmnot planned, but it might happenQuote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 07:27:15 pmCustomer site, or at home, or in the hotel. For sure never on the road.Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 07:27:15 pmLess space is taken with a laptop, and you can move your work with you if you travel. I do not like Claud or this stuff. Hence a laptop is a bonus when its use is not restricted due to cost and compromises.Quote from: olkipukki on April 04, 2020, 07:27:15 pmMaybe for the end of the year, and I am also waiting for the new Bookfair/Arm with MacOS-iOS hybrid.Not yet announced by Apple, I just have the feeling about it.Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmmeWell, do you like Curved 43" LCDs? Are curved Monitors Worth It? I mean things like the latestDell U4919DW Ultrawide Monitor. Brand new is about 1400 USD, I got offered a second hand one for 500K USD but I refused because it's equivalent to two 27" LCD side by side and that monitor is almost as long as your entire desk.It's marvelous for Finalcut (I tried it yesterday), but it's too big and too expensive. And just the LCD arm costs 400 Euros.Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmLOL, happy hackingQuote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 03:53:54 pmSure, I will. Thanks for the tips.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 02:09:06 am
content: Quote from: Someone on April 04, 2020, 03:17:45 am6700 will be faster if you have a continuously heavily multi-threaded load. But my tests show the 8650U beats both the 6700 and 6700K on single-threaded. Both the 6700K and 8650U are 4.2 GHz single-threaded, but the newer microarchitecture has a slight advantage.Program builds -- at least open source Linux ones -- tend to have a lot of essentially single-threaded tasks such as running autoconf or linking alternating with heavily-threaded compile steps. It's the single-threaded parts that in my experience put the 8650U ahead of the 6700. The 6700K creams both of them.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 06:27:50 am
content: Quote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 09:54:25 pmMy daily drive are EIZO 31.5" 4K EV3237 (new for 1/2 RRP price!) and two very cheap obtained EV2450s. I like this setup to focus on a main screen and have additional screen space without breaking my neck. Also these sides monitors allows me connect another sources very easy and without disruption. I love how Mac OS scale screen resolution on 4K+, wish Windows & Apps can do this!I have experience with U3818DW, good enough as a single screen, but prefer my current setup.If you are working with media, guess your dream monitor is Display XDRQuote from: 0db on April 04, 2020, 09:54:25 pmThat cheap, you are after Apple stuff, so be ready to round numbers up to closest thousandhttps://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWUG2LL/A/pro-stand

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:14:39 pm
content: One week ago, a friend bought three 17" 4:3 LCDs. Paid 150€ each.I thought 17" were cheaper nowadays.Eizo FleXScan EV3237 LCDs are listed at 520€. Interesting, interesting ...

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on April 05, 2020, 12:14:39 pmI like Samsung 32" 4K monitors. I have three of them and paid US$399 each, but I think they are a little cheaper now. Fantastic for programming.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on April 05, 2020, 05:21:55 pmwhich model?

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:43:16 pm
content: A desk is usually 120cm long. umm, I need a longer one.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 12:33:59 am
content: Quote from: 0db on April 05, 2020, 05:37:14 pmModels change, but one I bought in 2017 was LU32J590UQNXZA.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 05:11:10 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on April 01, 2020, 11:46:25 pmReconsidering Hackintosh, I need at least a reference point concerning "configurations". Consider that having video, sound and GPU 100% stable and working is mandatory for FinalCut.Do you have any website or reference for get started?

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 06:02:50 am
content: Quote from: 0db on April 06, 2020, 05:11:10 amQuote from: 0db on April 01, 2020, 09:13:13 am

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2020, 06:48:51 am
content: Quote from: 0db on April 06, 2020, 05:11:10 amhttps://www.tonymacx86.com/buyersguide/building-a-customac-hackintosh-the-ultimate-buyers-guide/https://www.4kshooters.net/2019/05/07/the-ultimate-hackintosh-build-2019-14-core-imacpro-killer/

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 10:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: 0db on April 06, 2020, 05:11:10 amReconsidering Hackintosh, is your goal to edit video or to fuck around with your computer? If the former, buy a Mac of whatever sort and get on with it.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 09:41:02 am
content: I use a hackintosh; I don't pay much attention to it. On a Dell 8930 (?) 6-core I7, 32G, Nvidia 1050. A "Costco special" - about $1k before I upgraded memory and disks (bought before the new cheese graters, back toward the end of the trashcans...)Eagle, XWindows, EMACS, assorted versions of gcc, MPLAB, Arduino, web browsers and email, and other sorts of "development-y" things all seem to work fine. Assorted Apple stuff, not so much - Itunes is usually broken, and the Optical drive is flakey. It's a couple versions behind on OS and other iXXXX tools, since upgrading is a pain, and I'm not sure whether it boots as fast as it ought to.'But overall, I'm pretty happy with it.

author: 0db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2020, 10:41:42 am
content: In the end, I opted for bank financing. I will buy a genuine maxed-out iMac + second big external LCD.The bank will eat interests on their bank-loan for five months, but that's acceptable.