Time for a new scope, which one? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 04:50:41 pm
content: For the past couple of weeks I have been looking at the Chinese Digital storage oscilloscopes.99% of my repairs are geared towards RF radio repair. CB and Ham radio. For years I have got by with an old Bell and Howell 10D-4540. Yep, 10 mhz. A few years ago I bought a Sencore CS-61. Microprocessor controlled 60 mhz usable to 100 mhz. I love this scope. I have been able to track down problems much faster. But it was old when I purchased it and does have a few quirks that need addressing.So with that I am thinking DSO. And looking at the cheap ones. I have about 300 US dollars to spend. And these are the ones I have looked at but not a lot of reviews on them:Scope 1:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-100MHz-Oscilloscope-2Channels-1GS-s-USB-110-240V-7-TFT-LCD-SDS1102CNL-/271165497747?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item3f22b92193Scope 2:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-100MHz-Oscilloscope-Scopemeter-2Channels-1GS-s-USB-110-240V-ADS1102CAL-/281073336222?pt=BI_OscilloscopesThese will run about 60 bucks to ship to the USA. So that is about as much as I can put into one.If anyone has used either of these or can suggest something other it would be greatly appreciated. Maybe even a used scope but hate to buy something either way that is crap.Thanks

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 06:03:38 pm
content: After looking there really is not much different between the 2 listed models. Was able to find a few things on the web about the Siglent but nothing on the Atten.

author: Nack486
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 08:56:36 pm
content: Have you looked into Rigol 'scopes in your price range? I think this is what Dave recommended in a video some time ago.You can also check out OWON, but I didn't find any 100 MHz ones under $300, only 30 MHz or so. Depends on how much bandwith you actually need.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 09:40:31 pm
content: Thanks for the reply Nack.I have looked at both the Rigol and Owon scopes. Like the 2 I posted are 100 mhz. The Rigol and Owon scopes in that price range are 25 mhz. At 27 mhz RF I need at least a min 60 mhz.I will continue to look at those two brands and see what else I can find on them.I am looking at this one now:Owon PDS6062S 60 MHz Portable Digital Oscilloscopehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Owon-PDS6062S-60-MHz-Portable-Dig-Oscilloscope-USB-250MS-s-Dual-Channel-/200899861761?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item2ec6909d01I did find a review on the 6062

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 09:56:55 pm
content: Quote from: Nack486 on March 11, 2013, 08:56:36 pm4 Years ago!I have not investigated the best bang-per-buck low end scope since then.Dave.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 10:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 11, 2013, 09:56:55 pmOh sweet!! The man Dave himself!Yep, 4 years has been quite some time.I really like the 6062 at 282 dollars with free shipping. but the specs dont look that great. The sample rate is 250ms vs the other 100 mhz scopes at 1G.This is getting head banging lol.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2013, 10:34:57 pm
content: Ok enough asking questions. Time to buy!. And the OWON 6062 it is.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 01:05:58 am
content: The Owon has only about 33 waveforms per second. Check this video:http://youtu.be/eqcEi6ru4ZM

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 01:36:01 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on March 12, 2013, 01:05:58 amThanks for the link.I thnk this scope will do what I need. I downloaded the manual and like what I see.When I get it here and it does not meet my needs I will put it on ebay. Still have my CS-61 to fall back on.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 08:05:13 am
content: Just keep in mind that the Owon'sPDS series scopes are pretty old and aren't even listed on manufacturer's webiste right now. Also they seem to have nasty reputation. People say that they have very bad screen and in general bad build quality. Take a look at this thread for example:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/does-anyone-have-any-experience-with-owon/. Don't confuse them with newerSDS series which isn't as bad. Also keep in mind that the review is forSDS6062, which beingSDS isn't aPDS series scope and is quite different (twice the sample rate on SDS for start, 6k memory per channel on PDS compared to 10 M memory per channel on SDS).There's also this series of videos on Youtube where they're featured:if you want to take a look at it.The Atten and Siglent scopes linked in the first post have four times the sample rate of PDS6062! Why even consider the PDS? You won't get good representation of signals over 25 MHz with it.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 10:11:52 am
content: Thanks for that post.Well, since this is my first DSO, and not knowing much about them, I decided cheap was good lol. The frequency range in the stuff I work on is in the 7 to 16 mhz range.I did get confused between the PDS and SDS to start with. But saw the difference before I bought.Any way the PDS6062 is on the way. I will find out this week end how it goes. So with that the pro's:The price is rightThe shipping was greatUSA based dealerWill post my results after it arrives.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 10:18:24 am
content: I hope you'll like your scope. For up to 17 MHz, it could be good enough.Do tell us your impressions when you get it!

author: moemoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 11:18:04 am
content: I would have proposedhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/,even if it's a little bit over budget, but probably it's too late now

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 12:07:57 pm
content: That would probably been tje better deal. but we will see how it goes now. . if i dont like it i have 14 days to return it. but i think it will do all i need.thanks for the comments guys.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 09:04:22 pm
content: Quote from: moemoe on March 12, 2013, 11:18:04 amI still cannot say whether the Hantek is good or not. But according to this review, I would rather choose the Owon.http://youtu.be/u7UgKJ8M7LYI read in a magazine, that the Hantek is overheating due to no cooling fan.

author: moemoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2013, 10:17:22 pm
content: My Voltcraft labeled has a cooling fan, and if you replace the cheap linear regulator with sth better even without a fan (or fan at lower voltage) overheating is no more an issue.Btw: Why can't people just write reviews? I don't want to be forced to watch 15min video when probably fast reading over some pages could be done in less than 5 minutes. So I don't know your reasons to prefer the Owon, just don't have the time. And this review is about 1.5a old, there changed a lot in the firmware since then.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2013, 01:51:15 am
content: Keep in mind that the Owon scope Radio Tech is getting is NOT the series mentioned in the reviews linked! The SDS 6062 is about $100 more expensive than the PDS right now. Also FFT isn't mentioned anywhere on the page for the PDS, so it's probably the older version of PDS. Anyway I'm looking forward to hearing impressions of PDS series.As for the review videos, I think that it's a combination of two factors: To some people videos may feel more natural than reading and at the same time I have a feeling that it's a bit trendy right now to do video reviews in this so called "Web 2.0" era. Perhaps it's a generation gap somewhere in there?It is my firm belief that for a customer a clear written review is much more efficient. It would be easier to find information in them on the Internet since it's much more easier to search for content within text than it is to search for content within videos. Furthermore quality can be increased by providing clear and sharp photographs accompanied a by a good text description. A reader can easily skip some parts of text and focus more on others, since it's usually easy to quickly get a summary of text. On the other side, it's rare for videos to have "table of contents" with start time of each segment.Perhaps it takes more effort to make a text-based review than it takes to make a video based review. It would be nice to do some research on that area. Anyway, this is getting waaay off-topic now, so I'll stop.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 01:18:43 pm
content: Scope arrived at Fed-Ex this morning so I slipped out and picked it up. Cant wait to get home and check it out. Note this is my first DSO. I also found a DS1052E at a good price and thinking of ordering it also. 3 work benched so need 3 scopes right :

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2013, 11:53:29 pm
content: Had a few minutes this afternoon to play with it. The menus are very friendly and easy to follow. The only test I had time to do was connected it to my RF and De-mod box and look at RF and audio waveforms.Does a decent job.I like it.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 12:41:38 pm
content: Could not get the supplied software to do anything, "Error Loading" message. Went to OWON website and downloaded the new drivers. Installed and bingo! Very nice. The display on the scope can be transfered to the PC with one click of the mouse. I really like this.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 03:11:18 pm
content: Is only the current screen shot transfered or does the PC display update in real time?

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 03:56:27 pm
content: Software works by transferring screenshot by screenshot or set of sample points by set of sample points (which is what is demonstrated here), but it's possible to set up auto refresh rate. The update speed also depends on the amount of data transferred (faster for screenshots), but it's not real-time.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2013, 04:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on March 15, 2013, 03:11:18 pmOn that attachment I had hit the "Get Data" button. That only shows one screen shot. But if you hit :Continue Data Download" button it keeps changing on the PC monitor. So no not really live since it has to keep sending packets of screen shots to the PC.

author: S_Prime
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 16, 2013, 06:13:58 pm
content: It would be great if Mr. Jones could host a comparison of current budget oscilloscopes. eBay is full of budget 100MHz models at the same price bracket as the Rigol (which cannot be hacked to 100MHz anymore I think).

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2013, 06:21:54 pm
content: Sure, buy a few of those and mail them to Dave and he'll review them.

author: S_Prime
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2013, 12:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: mariush on March 16, 2013, 06:21:54 pmHmmm... Let me think: Buy a few of those + ship them to the other end of the world or get me an Agilent? If this wasSophie's Choiceit'd be a very short movie.In all seriousness, I'm sure a couple of those affordable models could be lent from forum members who already own them and live a bit closer to Mr. Jones.2-3 different models could be bought off eBay if we could all chip in a few bucks so that Mr. Jones can buy them. When the review is over, these could be offered in a forum giveaway.I'd be willing to send ~$15 via Paypal. We need ~60 more members who'd be willing to do the same, and we have enough for three budget oscilloscopes.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2013, 01:45:25 pm
content: Quote from: S_Prime on March 17, 2013, 12:21:28 pmYou know, that would not be a bad idea. I would not mind donating a few bucks to the forum to have a product tested. Could be a 6 month deal or so. Then after Dave does his review/teardown, give it away to the forum. I like it.

author: travellerw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 03:17:07 am
content: I just did the whole "I need my first scope" dance...I ended up settling on the Rigol DS1052E.. Price/features it just couldn't be beat. On top of that, its still flashable to 100mhz (which I did 5 min after opening it).My only complaint.. The screen is a little small.. Other than that.. I'm super happy with it.

author: S_Prime
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 10:49:44 am
content: Quote from: Radio Tech on March 17, 2013, 01:45:25 pmGood to know I'm not alone in thinking it'd be worthwhile..Quote from: travellerw on March 18, 2013, 03:17:07 amCongrats on your purchase!Strange, a friends recently bought one and concluded that newer models are not "hackable" any more.Guess I'll have to tell him to do some proper research.. ;p

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 11:18:10 am
content: Quote from: Radio Tech on March 14, 2013, 01:18:43 pmOf course, basic rule of hobby electronics!Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 11:34:49 am
content: Quote from: S_Prime on March 17, 2013, 12:21:28 pmI have an open invitation to review/teardown/test/play with any product from Trio Smart Cal just down the road:www.triosmartcal.com.auAnd they usually have all the stuff in stock.The problem isn't so much getting gear, it's the time and effort it takes to review advanced gear like scopes. And that's on top of my already backlogged list of review items!I'd love to do a budget scope shootout, it's a just a matter of finding 2-3 days free to do it.Of course I could try a "simplistic" or "basic" comparison review of the major features, but you know me...But I do plan to be that rigid with my next multimeter shootout - test X features, X time limit on each one, and no tangents.So if someone was to come up with a list of scopes, and a list of basic features they think would cover the basics, it's doable...Dave.

author: moemoe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 12:04:43 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2013, 11:34:49 amGreat offer, I just started a thread for this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dave's-cheatsheet-for-budget-oscilloscope-testing/

author: S_Prime
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 03:56:09 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2013, 11:34:49 amLooking forward to it! My suggestion/offer still stands if some models cannot be sourced localy.

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 04:03:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 18, 2013, 11:34:49 amWould be nice. I will tell you about the Owon PDS6062 since I used it all week end. The scope works great for 295 bucks. The only problem I see with it is the brightness off the screen. Like the contrast is turned down to low. Gonna have the grab a schematic and see if there is a way to fix that. Other than that. I give it a thumbs up!

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 05:28:19 pm
content: I just bit the bullet and bought a Rigol DS1102E. Was $399 US with a free case and free shipping. I'll use it a a basic bench meter since it will display voltages, frequency, and the waveform all at the same time. Been wanting a DMM that will also display on the bench PC and I think for what I want this should do fine so I won't need a DMM with USB. If I need a real scope I will still use my Tek 465 which also has a DMM built into it.

author: travellerw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 08:34:03 pm
content: Yes the old Rigol 1052 is still "upgradeable".. Actually its even easier these days. No crazy stuff just apply 1 flash update and you are all good.The details are on the forum for anyone who wants to search. The scope I just updated came with software version 4.0

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2013, 10:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: travellerw on March 18, 2013, 08:34:03 pmI am going to buy one of those in the next month myself. I like the Owon, but I still want a Rigol.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2013, 11:59:21 pm
content: Quote from: moemoe on March 12, 2013, 10:17:22 pmDon't you think it's rather ironic that you wrote this in a forum which is (fully? partially?) supported by a blog based around video reviews and video articles?Seriously though, as the 'author' of the video review you're referring to, I can explain quite clearly why it's in video form instead of written: because I do it for free - in my free time - to help other prospective purchasers of the DSO. Writing would take me (the person who's doing it for free) more time - whereas reading would take you (the person who's getting it for free) less time. Simple, isn't it?QuoteOwon has improved certain aspects of the hardware design in the last 1.5 years (although there appears to be a bad noise problem in the current crop of SDS7102s)- but they haven't added one new important feature that I felt was lacking from the firmware or hardware when I made the review - and they haven't done anything to address the abysmally high blind time at small memory sample sizes. So I feel my review is still completely applicable - otherwise I would pull it.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2013, 03:52:17 pm
content: Owon hasn't introduced any significant scope model since early 2011. Not much innovation at all. Rigol and Agilent are much better at new products...