EEV Argus 3 for automotive application - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 09:51:29 am
content: Dear all;First of all, thank you for all the help given for Flir E4 updating and fire-TIC advice read on this publicly available forum.As a thermal imagingnerdenthusiast and part-time humanitarian worker, I'd like to present here my main current project:A truck-mounted thermal imager for collision avoidance.I drive a heavy tropicalized Unimog truck carrying educational and first aid material to 7 orphanages in the poorest and remote regions of the Sahara desert once a year during my holidays. The material is gathered around the year from relatives, schools, pharmacies and local shops. The trip through France, Spain and Northern-Morocco can be done with any regular car, but the remaining 1000's km aren't an afternoon promenade (look for Mauritania No-Man's-Land in google). In these southern regions, sun set early on unpaved roads, used by cars, wrecks, goats, bicycles and children. The lights of the trucks aren't strong enough to distinguish a child 20m ahead, and emergency breaking on gravels isn't the most effective.I equipped the cabin with a touchscreen Windows 10 PC reading several sensors (especially battery management and temperature of the bridges) through Arduino, looking forward with a 120º fov camera and helping driving with a GPS software.The interface and microcontroller talks is done with Processing (too lazy to learn Python).The next step would be to include aruggedTIC under the hood to spot things on the road at night and during sandstorms.I purchased a British Argus 3, first time touching a BST sensor. Apart the fact this camera purrs like a kitten due to the motor inside, I really appreciate the framerate, the absence of shutter dead-time and the wide thermal resolution.An Argus 3 has the advantage of shock-proof water tight fire resistant casing, video output and 4 threaded holes for mounting.The «soft-red» colour palette embedded could be spotted by a simple OpenCV routine, triggering a sound alarm.I plan to recover the video signal via a cheap Easycap USB dongle, sealed in the EM shielded box already containing my microcontroller and USB hub.My main fears are:* Will the mechanical component endure the vibrations?* Will the analogue-to-digital conversion be short enough for driving use?Thanks for you advice.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 10:14:01 am
content: interesting project, you aren't the first to build your own car mounted camera. Given that the Cadillac camera is also the same BST, I think you are clear of vibration issues. Military driving cameras such as the DRS DVE are shutterless microbolometers to avoid mechanical parts. (One of these + controller/monitor was on eBay.de a few weeks ago).I used a cheap USB video grabber with my cores recently and couldn't notice any delay.

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 10:33:30 am
content: Very nice.Indeed, the BST sensor was used for Cadillac De Ville, but any module found on ebay is in poor shape due to oxidation or molten iris plate. I strongly hesitated between a 160x120 20Hz VOx from a Scott Eagle camera or the 320x240 60Hz BST from Argus.As the UK is still part of Europe, it was way easier to find a seller shipping to France, so I got one for approx 200€. The bulkiness of the Argus is not a problem for such application.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2019, 10:25:41 pm
content: There is very little pipeline delay in the Argus 3, but the easycap and PC could well add a bit.The BST is run for a digital output and then 'coloured' and converted to analogue video. The overlay graphics are slower, but of little relevance to you, so you would turn them off with software or the remote controller.Software is on mywww.fire-tics.co.ukwebsite, as is detail of getting a remote control if yours did not come with one. The difficult part is if you need the software connection cable, Fischer parts are very expensive.You may find the 'red' level varies if something large and hot appears, as the camera has an auto iris. You could disable it by unplugging inside. The BST is inherently stable from ambient temperatures as it is a 'change of temperature' detector and in Argus 3 it is run with fixed gain and level apart from the iris function.I can look up more details of you need them. If the motor bearings are too bad, I have spare motors but even very noisy ones seem to keep going OK.Bill

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 01:24:25 pm
content: Dear Bill;Thank you very much for your website: I chose the Argus 3 after visiting this goldmine. Mine came in minute condition with all possible accessories (including THE cable, CD, remote, proof of purchase of the batteries, Allen keys, spare window, etc etc). Loved this bulky yellow camera so much, I sold my Flir E4 to get another one to look for the wolf in my region.I plan to install the software on a virtual machine to get the humidity ADC values form those 2 and select the one to be fit in the truck.Interesting point about the software overlay, than means removing the colour detection, temperature readings and other fantasies would improve the reaction time of the machine?I know the EasyCrap will add some delay, but if I can spare some on the camera part, it's a very good move.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 06:59:19 pm
content: Quote from: Flukav on June 16, 2019, 01:24:25 pmNo, I mean that the delay in the graphics (temperature) is just that, a delay in the graphics.The video, colour or not, is the same time.Digital data - lookup table - colour data - video matrix IC.There are two other points to make.First, the problem with choppers in the Cadillac cameras was because they were near the hot engine. Avoid this if you can.Second is the export control problem, going where you are is 'export' from, I guess, Spain as the whole EU is one zone for export control purposes.Argus 3 is not a <9Hz exempt itemThe Cadillacs were exempt as the rules have an exemption for 'built into a vehicle' but there are conditions to meet. You would be best to try to satisfy those rules and then get advice and permissions.Below the relevant section from UK regulations:Note 3: 6A003.b.4.b. does not control imaging cameras having any of the following:4. Having any of the following:a. A maximum frame rate equal to or less than 9 Hz ;b. (not relevant)c. The camera is specially designed for installation into a civilian passenger land vehicle and having all of the following:1. The placement and configuration of the camera within the vehicle are solely to assist the driver in the safe operation of the vehicle;2. Is only operable when installed in any of the following:a. The civilian passenger land vehicle for which it was intended and the vehicle weighs less than 4 500 kg (grossvehicle weight); orb. A specially designed, authorized maintenance test facility;and3. Incorporates an active mechanism that forces the camera not to function when it is removed from the vehicle for which it was intendedBill

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2019, 01:38:28 pm
content: another option is to find a safe place to store the camera in morocco and get a core shipped directly from china to morocco to avoid any wassenaar issues entirely but then you have the issue that you need to find somewhere to actually store an expensive thermal camera and worry about what kind of usage it would get if stolen.also there may be some uk regulations about providing wassenaar protected tech to non treaty parties as a citizen of the uk regardless of where the camera originates and is used, definitely get some legal advice before pursuing this route.

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 04:12:14 pm
content: Sad this project may be aborted because of such outdated regulations.Anyway, connecting a BNC-to-RCA plug on a EZcap dongle, I could retrieve nice images at 50Hz with small noticeable delay due to conversion.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2019, 05:10:22 pm
content: I worked at Daimler-Benz as an intern in 1991 on autonomous vehicles. We had our primary vision system (that was able to operate the vehicle autonomously quite successfully for both lane keeping and safe following of traffic) running at 5Hz at something like 160x120 resolution at 256-level greyscale. My summer project was to double the frame rate to 10 Hz and quadruple the resolution [by slightly better software and ~3x the hardware].My point in mentioning this is that you could get by and operate a vehicle with a 9Hz update rate for sure.I would go with flamethrower front lighting before trying to drive with infrared cameras, but if you had to go with a slow thermal camera in order to comply with regulations, you will be able to tolerate a relatively slow framerate and probably 250ms latency from sense-to-display will also be tolerable. (That's smaller than [though same order of magnitude as] human reaction time on average.)

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 02:01:34 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on June 28, 2019, 05:10:22 pmI agree, it seems like the OP is trying to find an excuse to use a "high tech" method.Decent driving lights on the truck should make a lot of things visible.He says the vehicle lights aren't good enough to distinguish a child 20m ahead----- what the hell is he using, hurricane lanterns?Any standard high beams should be much better than that!I drove all around the bush in Oz at night on nearly non existent tracks using standard headlights, or at a pinch, a set of cheap driving lights. (all old style incandescents).What do other drivers do?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 12:59:25 pm
content: The alternative night driving technology in use is near infrared as used by Mercedes. High power NIR illuminations in the headlight housing project their illumination far beyond the normal dipped headlights yet they do not dazzle oncoming traffic or animals (that tend to freeze in bright lights). A conventional NIR sensitive CCD camera technology coupled to a LCD monitor presents the outside scene to the driver. This technology is gaining ground on thermal imaging technology when it comes to collision avoidance. It has the advantage of using relatively common technology with no constraints on export or use. The other advantage of using NIR long distance illumination rather than enormous visible light powers is that it avoids night blindness when the high beam lights have to be turned off for oncoming traffic.A HUD is still the preferred embodiment of the drivers display device but this is a little more complicated to build yourself.https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/193402-what-is-night-vision-how-does-it-work-and-do-i-really-need-it-in-my-next-carhttps://youtu.be/l6DMidknVCoFraser

author: Max Planck
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 05:00:25 pm
content: A NIR system + an IR illuminator will probably be a bad idea. Given the amount of sand/dust in the air or during the sandstorms the IR flux from the illuminator will probably be reflected by those particles, just like headlights during heavy fog, efectively blinding the system.LWIR would be my prefered choice.At this moment, my biggest concern would be where to mount the camera and how to protect its optics from sand abrasion.Max

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2019, 06:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: Max Planck on June 29, 2019, 05:00:25 pmsand abrasion is easy in these wavelengths as long as you don't care about a bit of focus loss, scrap germanium is easily found on ebay and could be used as sacrificial windows. perhaps with a replaceable polyethylene film on the outside to increase longevity. or if you can source a supply of the argus sacrificial windows you could make something work with those

author: Flukav
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 06:36:27 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on June 29, 2019, 02:01:34 amIt seems you've never been in one of the poorest region of the Globe. The simple sight of a european truck triggers 2 reactions:1) children playing around2) despaired young boys jumping on it to smuggle in a better placeIf you want real stories of migrants and desperation, you can ask by private message or join us next March.Other drivers don't drive at night or may endure accident quite quickly.The idea of thermal imaging is definitely not to «drive» with it but rather explore a possible safety add-in by the mean of a device I already own.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 11:27:53 am
content: Quote from: Flukav on June 30, 2019, 06:36:27 amIf I were many years younger, Iwouldjoin you.Your original posting seemed to emphasise how poor the roads were, as do the Youtube videos I found, rather than the problems with people on the road.Apart from the possibility of landmines, the road in the Mauritania No-Mans Land does not look any worse than the Outback "goat tracks" I have driven in the past.Such roads still exist in this country, but back in the day, that was the state of some "highways".Bush driving in Oz presents its own hazards, such as kangaroos, emus, 1000kg bullocks, & "washaways, where the road disppears, leaving a nice big ditch!Of course, in your case, you not only experience danger to yourself, & any passengers, but have the additional responsibility of the lives of third parties.QuoteWhich raises the obvious question:Why do you need to drive at night, with the additional presence of kids trying to jump aboard?I know the Sun goes down early, but isn't that combined with an early sunrise?QuoteI am still confused by the statement that the normal headlights are not good enough to "distinguish a child at 20m".I could understand 100m, but 20m is the distance from my house to the back fence!Surely modern headlights should be able to work OK over that distance.I can see most things in the backyard with a handheld "flashlight".

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2019, 02:04:41 am
content: the only thing i can think of in regards to headlights is not wanting to make yourself a massive beacon of "STEAL THIS STUFF" at night.still there should be a happy medium between supernova and candle