Win 7 support ending - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 08:17:55 pm
content: What happens to testgear based on Windows when support ends ?I think I read that the latest HP scopes used WinCE which doesn't use support in quite the same way, but there are certainly some that run XP Pro and maybe some with Win 7.Of course, they won't just stop working, but I can't see how the benefits of using such a platform apply if you can't use it to run support software or connect it to the net. Is it normal to apply OS updates to them ? Are those XP scopes now popping a reminder up onscreen that you need to upgrade it ?Are any of the vendors shipping something based on Windows 8 ?

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 08:21:48 pm
content: It's irrelevant to embedded-style OSes on devices.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 08:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 13, 2015, 08:21:48 pmOf course, if they're ROM-based and cannot run external executables.They aren't all like that, though. Some are able to run bolt-on executables, such as postprocessing in Mathematica. There would be no point in using a commercial OS if that weren't the case.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 08:56:10 pm
content: Yep, my colleague plays solitaire and minesweeper on his LeCroy. It's there by default

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:06:52 pm
content: Windows XP is still being supported even though Microsoft claim to have ceased suchYou just need to make a change to your XP installation to make it appear to be a cashpoint machine to Microsoft. Updates continue for XP based cashpoint machines.As has been stated however, embedded computers do not normally care whether their OS is supported or not. I have seen machines running Win 3.1 for workgroups quite happily !Aurora

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:27:09 pm
content: Oh lord, please not another roulette of MS OSWas too scared to move from XP after the Vista debacle for years.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:43:43 pm
content: At work we have some high end RF test gear that runs Win 2000 internally but we still use it. We also dozens of items of RF test gear that runs WinXP internally. These machines (eg VNAs) can behave just like a PC with USB ports and Windows Explorer and the ability to load and run Windows programs on the VNA.However, I'm kind of hoping that some busybody in IT will complain that they are a risk to the company and maybe I'll then be able to buy some of this RF test gear cheaply for home use

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:49:11 pm
content: There is nothing wrong with the question by itself. As stated before, while MS changes their current products, your instrument doesn't stop working as before with an old OS.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 09:52:48 pm
content: Note that Windows 7 will still get regular security updates for 5 more years. Only free phone support and feature updates are ending.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2015, 10:11:13 pm
content: @G0HZU that is a very interesting suggestion, perhaps we should all put in to IT department notification of "potential critical issue incident" about the test gear! Which we will happily get rid of the "problem" HiHi

author: DJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:34:25 am
content: We had a WinXP based Agilent Infiniium scope at an old company. One of my techs copied the HDD to a faster unit, and we socked the original away. Clever idea I thought (the tech's, not mine). Gave us cheap insurance for arguably the least reliable part in a 5-figure scope (we bought it out of warranty).That being said, the scope was used stand-alone. Not sure how IT would react to legacy systems if it was interconnected.In general, MS seems to exist on OS churn. There is nothing I can think of that makes newer than Win7 compelling. For that matter, nothing since Office2K is particularly vital.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 06:13:55 am
content: Quote from: artag on January 13, 2015, 08:17:55 pmWhat should happen? It will still continue to work as it did before.QuoteHP hasn't made any scopes for quite a while (and the only Windows scopes they made ran Windows95/98), and but yes, some low end scopes like the Agilent DSO-X2k/3k use Windows CE. Higher end scopes either run some Windows Embedded variant (cut down variant of the Pro version) or a full Windows XP/Vista/7 Professional.QuoteIf you installed all updates, then yes. However, just because the OS isn't supported doesn't mean it can't connect to a network safely, which all of them can.What they can't do is to connect to theinternetsafely, however there rarely is a reason why a scope needs to have internet access or needs to be available from the web.This aside, this isn't just a Windows problem. Other OSes as used in some non-Windows test gear isn't necessarily more secure, especially if it is network-aware. The bottom line is that no test equipment should really have access to the internet.QuoteNot that I know of, but it's a bit early as test kit development tends to take quite a bit longer than for standard PCs, so if there are vendors working on test gear running Windows 8/8.1 I'd not expect to see them on the market before say end of this year or somewhere in 2016.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 12:08:15 pm
content: In the embedded market, even if there are updates from the OS vendor I don't think device manufacturers rush to do anything with them. The user facing functionality is mostly the custom device software, not the OS. And security isn't a big concern here, these aren't internet devices.Even if a device manufacturer has other reasons to issue an update they might stick to their old OS version because their customized stuff on top relies on a specific version, or because updating OS components would need a lot of validation. Old/existing gear rarely gets a lot of new development work, even trivial things.Speaking of which, even Android phones get abandoned pretty quickly. And there the OS is much more central, and user facing, and updates are much more crucial for security and compatibility.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 02:06:22 pm
content: What? Just a week ago I moved one of my VM's off XP and over to Windows 7lolI'm totally skipping Windows 8. Any upgrade I do next will be direct to Windows 10.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 03:24:43 pm
content: Win 8.1 isn't bad and Win10 is freaking excellent.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 04:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on January 14, 2015, 03:24:43 pmVery far from that. I won't try to convince anyone of anything (massive flamewar guaranteed, 100%; hours of time wasted on both sides; lose-lose situation, really) so I'll just say I'm happily using Windows 8.1 on both of my machines and wouldn't consider downgrading to 7 over a freaking Start Menu for a second. It's 2015 and I don't remember the last time I was actually hunting for application icons in Start Menu. All I'm doing since Vista is to hit "Win" key and start typing few letters of the app name, then Enter. And I do exactly the same in Windows 8/8.1. Hyper-V, on the other hand, is invaluable for me. Smaller memory footprint than W7 and lots of other added functionality doesn't hurt, either. And, contrary to the popular belief, Windows 8 is more "geek-friendly" than W7 as well. Once you discover the Win-X / [Win icon rightclick] menu, most common "advanced"/administration tasks are accessible much quicker than in W7.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 05:02:01 pm
content: i know that agilent gives new system images for certain machines if the hardware can handle it.Many machines do not run a standard OS installation but a so called Embedded version. ( not the same as CE ! ). there is very long term support for those.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 05:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on January 14, 2015, 04:43:05 pmso you've gone back to a command line ... welcome to the stone age ...

author: chicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 06:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 14, 2015, 05:03:14 pmYou can still plaster your desktop and taskbar with icons if you prefer.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 06:50:07 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 14, 2015, 05:03:14 pmNo, different thing entirely (hint: "fewletters"). Also, I have my most used shortcuts pinned to the taskbar and/or Start Screen. Desktop shortcuts are also still there if that's your thing.BTW, how did you enjoy writing your post hunting the letters down the on-screen keyboard with your mouse cursor? You haven't used this stone age "keyboard" thing like some command-line-obsessed dinosaur, right?How about keyboard shortcuts? Is that notion equally ridiculous to you?

author: FivePoint0
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 09:35:49 pm
content: Having tried Win 8, 8.1 and the preview of 10 I'm more worried about what my desktop will be in 5 years time. It seems like XP came and went in the blink of an eye. 7 is great in the same way XP was. With 10 MS could have put things right (reverted) and given people who like to use workstations for work something suitable. 10 be better than 8.1 but I still prefer 7.To think I was always an eager early adopter - that was until Vista ground my dual Socket Xeon to a halt!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 10:40:01 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on January 14, 2015, 06:50:07 pmkeyboard shortcuts have their use. invoking programs using keybaord .. not so. i don;t know what the executable for most programs is called ( altium executable is dxp.exe for example .. nor do i know what the invocation name for thins like the device manager or the system logs or the backup or the control panel are..i have 1 win8.1 system at home and i absolutely hate it. one wrong mouse move and you are back in that stupid tile interface ( is there a way to turn that off completely ? ) 'hot corners' is the stupidest invention ever. i can never find what i need and nee d to re-learn the user interface of the machine. that is a nono i have work to do.as for command line : that is a few letters. type wo<tab> and the line will autocomplete. been like that since dos 6.0 ...so i can start any program with one, two or three letter + a tab. hit tab again to go to the next one etc ..so you have a commandline ... >

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 11:01:03 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 14, 2015, 10:40:01 pmYou don't have to! It's not your regular "Run.." box. It indexes the "friendly" names of shortcuts, executables, data files, everything. The executable for my cheap USB microscope's application is called "MicroCam2.exe" It's called "Digital Microscope Suite 2.0" on the Start Screen and it would be called the same in the Windows 7's Start Menu. It doesn't matter if I type "dig" or "micro" or the full executable name (if I feel like it) - it finds it each and every time. Similarly, quick "<Win> atm <Enter>" will launch my Atmel Studio and "<Win> cal <Enter>" - system calculator. It takes half a second tops. The same goes for Control Panel entries. It really is an efficient and clever mechanism, just forget that you hate it so much for a minute and give it a tryEDIT:Device Manager: Win-X M ;-)

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2015, 11:28:35 pm
content: IMHO Win 8.1 only really works on touchscreens. Micro$oft dropped the ball by concentrating too much on the tablet market and forgetting about the desktop market. Trying to make 1 OS work in 2 different markets is like trying to wear 2 different sized shoes. Just won't work well. I take care of 2 8.1 laptops (SWMBO and stepdaughter) and still much prefer Win 7. I did play with an 8.1 HP touchscreen all in one computer with a 27 inch monitor and it made sense there. I haven't previewed 10 yet, but I have read a lot of positives about it. Hopefully, I will be able to upgrade the 2 laptops to 10. That depends on the women. After spending years with XP and 7, I just don't find 8.1 intuitive. I like the idea of 1 desktop not 2. For me, I find some things work better in "Metro", some work better in desktop. I don't want to have to keep switching. I guess there is no teaching this old woolfe new tricks. We did find out that the company will be giving us Surface Pro tablets to make our jobs easier. That, I am looking forward to. We should have them by end of Q1, beginning of Q2.

author: lpc32
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 12:10:19 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 14, 2015, 10:40:01 pmNot completely, but in a way that you won't see it unless you want to. In the current version of Win8.1: Right click taskbar, Properties, Navigation, uncheck various "Corner navigation" checkboxes, check "go to the desktop instead of Start".Also, you'd wantClassicShellon Win8. It includes a real Start Menu (better than any NT6, and more configurable than any version of Windows), and optionally also a better status bar in Explorer that shows useful info, more akin to XP. The status bar could be improved further, though.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 12:19:53 am
content: Quote from: lpc32 on January 15, 2015, 12:10:19 amI just updated my system a few days ago and installed 8.1 out of curiosity. I love you for the classicshell as it fixes my only quip (so far) with 8.1

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2015, 06:26:01 am
content: Quote from: FivePoint0 on January 14, 2015, 09:35:49 pmMust have been pretty old hardware back then as when Vista came out we migrated all our workstations (dual XEONs/Opterons, most of them less than 4 years old) to it and ended up getting better performance than with Windows XP when running CPU and memory intensive programs.I also upgraded my personal systems with Vista when it came out for businesses (before the public release) and didn't really had much problems with it. What really sucked was how immature the graphics drivers for ATI/AMD and Nvidia cards were, as were the drivers for some other hardware. But that's to blame the hardware manufacturers for, not MS (considering that Vista had a very long Beta phase you'd think they were prepared). But even this wasn't much of a problem 6 to 8 months down the road.Initially Vista sometimes 'felt' slow because MS had attributed a lower priority to some user processes and a too high priority to certain background processes like search, but that improved a lot after SP1, and with SP2 Vista 'feels' as snappy as Windows 7. It also didn't help that some hardware vendors sold last-generation bottom-of-the-barrel PCs and laptops (i.e. 256MB or 512MB RAM) with Vista in the hope to increase sales (the same happened when Win8 came out). MS helped that by their stupid logo program, though, which allowed manufacturers to slap a Vista compatible logo even on systems that came with graphics that didn't support Aero.But overall Vista isn't a bad OS (security-wise it was head and shoulders above XP), and when it came out it wasn't in a worse condition as XP when it came out. Vista's bad reputation is mostly based on hearsay and unreflected parroting of the phantasies of wannabe-scientist Peter Gutman who once wrote a paper about alleged Vista "problems" (i.e. Vista will not playback your ripped MP3s, DRM will reduce the details of medical images and so on) without having ever used Vista and by resorting to selective interpretation of outdated MS whitepapers. Funny enough, as silly as his ideas were, they were spread by the media without anyone thinking twice. Even today I occasionally run into someone who believes in these claims.