Rigol announces Phoenix chipset and UltraVision II technology platform - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 11:37:30 am
content: https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcn.rigol.com%2FNews%2FDetail%2F61&edit-text=&act=url

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 12:21:27 pm
content: They probably had it waiting for when another company finally managed to compete with the DS1054Z (eg. the new Siglent).

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 12:31:51 pm
content: Chips with IDs:X8106AX14060Names or Codenames:? (beta) Phoenix- up to 4GHz oscilloscope analog frontend/sampling chipAnkaa- a 10 Gs/s (or 20 Gs/s "realtime") oscilloscope using ? Phoenix? (gamma) Phoenix- up to 6 GHz differential probe amplifierUltraReal- Rigol's name for something in realtime spectrum analysisLastly, some enhanced pictures and some observations thereof:The oscilloscope seems to have RGB lighted buttons like some new scopes, but maybe not.The oscilloscope seems to have14knobs.It appears to have some kind of MegaZoom-like search functionality.All 14knobs have are pushable.The oscilloscope seems to have at 7 context buttons (one set of seven, instead of two sets like the 1054z) plus Menu Off and BackIt has up totwofunction generator outputs on the front panel.The oscilloscope remains 10 divisions wide.The SA has 3 front USB ports for some reason...The SA could have room for a tracking generator, it's just in shadow if it's there.The SA has, in addition to the expected modes,PvTmodes. This isPower versus Timerealtime analysis which is probably recomputing the spectrum data into the frequency domain. This should be something like zero span on swept spectrum analyzers (whereas this is implemented in the realtime portion)

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 12:43:20 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 08, 2017, 12:21:27 pmI think all of the equipment mentioned so far is much higher end than the 1054z market and its constituents. Both of these devices would probably be the highest end device Rigol sells in their respective markets.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 09:44:34 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on June 08, 2017, 12:43:20 pmAgree. Why would they replace the DS1000Z series now, which is by far the most recently introduced of their scope series? The new platform will probably start out at the top of their range, and eventually (over the next few years) percolate down to the 2000 series and the 1000Z series segment.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 09:51:05 am
content: The big question is how mature that chipset is, and whether their next low-end scope model will already be based on their own taped chipset, or if they will still introduce a Zynq SoC based low-end scope model in between.Exciting times at least! And many innovations from Rigol to come! Clearly a big player with a strong vision!

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 09:57:04 am
content: i hope that thing doesnt have:1) crawling slow GUI.2) crawling small FFT3) buggy data output from visa programmable command USB line.4) "pluses"those are very well known rigol reputation. we are eyeing other brand like Siglent etc... so watch out rigol, you dont listen to your customers you will lose a large chunk of them.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:02:43 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2017, 09:57:04 amExcellent and valuable input. Thank you for pointing out this major technology risks which are so often overlooked.

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:23:12 am
content: To me as a Tek 11A33 user I should notice that Rigol paid attention to some analog aspects of the AFE which are overlooked for decades by the big players."" ? Phenicis" chip up to 4GHz , integrated digital oscilloscope analog front end of all the functional modules required, but also includes 1M ? input electronic attenuator , to achieve fast and really "quiet" silent gear switch; The chip uses a unique circuit design, its 1M ? mode overload recovery time reduced to 0.5% of existing products. The chip only need to add a small amount of external components to form an oscilloscope analog front-end channel, revealing the " simple is beautiful " system design and greatly improve the digital oscilloscope consistency and reliability. "In addition to post a 0.5% recovery spec on a product conference beside NI they are to my knowledge the only one who design a relay-less AFE. And this all w/o the big wording machines!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:36:33 am
content: OoohNew scope and spectum analyser coming.Photos of the hybrid front end on the new 6GHz diff probe.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:37:48 am
content: Quote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:39:05 am
content: They have done away with the button down the left side, and it's clearly a touch screen with the bottom menu screen items and no buttons underneath.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:40:39 am
content: The chipset contains ADC, amp, and control ASIC?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:44:36 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 09, 2017, 09:51:05 amYes, I'm sure they will, because they are totally into this Zync fetish thing!And the obvious marketing move is to announce a proprietary high-end chipset, and then ship a lower midrange SoC product...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:47:03 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on June 08, 2017, 12:43:20 pmI've heard that the DS6000 sales have been tanking for a long while now. Probably the replacement for that.You have to shoot for the top market to rover such obviously high R&D costs.And if this really is a dedicated ASIC, then that's a huge step for Rigol, makes them a big player.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:47:09 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2017, 09:57:04 amConcur on the other 3 problems and others, but, come on! The "pluses" is now the family trademark!Assuming that they do a good job, the "pluses" feature should "help engage the operator through stimulation of laugher reactions with subsequent release of positive energy" (in marketingish blabber)Now, seriously. The "pluses" thing is amusing. I will miss it!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:50:03 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 09, 2017, 10:47:03 amIt will all depend on whether the firmware is working when released. The professional market is unforgiving when it comes to that. It doesn't make sense to buy a scope and put it onto a shelve for 3 years hoping the firmware is ready after that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:50:38 am
content: http://www.eeworld.com.cn/Test_and_measurement/article_2017060819416.htmlQuote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:52:54 am
content: http://instrument.ofweek.com/2017-06/ART-8320088-8220-30141900.htmlQuote

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:58:47 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 09, 2017, 10:50:03 amIt does set apart the wannabe players.

author: sibeen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:03:01 am
content: Jaysus, you would think they would hire at least one technical writer who was at least semi conversant with English.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:08:39 am
content: Quote from: sibeen on June 09, 2017, 11:03:01 amThe quotes you read above are Google-translated; the only publications so far seem to be on Chinese web sites.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 09, 2017, 10:02:43 amGot to hand it to him, he never misses a chance to bash Rigol.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:35:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 amIt did take them > than a year to fix the random crashing on the 4000 series.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:36:39 am
content: Let's wait for the first reviews. If Rigol delivers a proper DSO it could start a real competition and help bringing prices down to a reasonable level.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 12:49:36 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2017, 09:57:04 am5. Disfunctional PLL6. Oscillating power suppliesFollowing my principle "No more rigol shit on my bench" I am not going to buy one but can validate assertions #5 and 6 if anyone willing to send me one for test.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 01:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 09, 2017, 11:36:39 amI've been reading that for the past 4 years and it hasn't happened yet for >200MHz oscilloscopes. So hopes down...

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 02:08:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 09, 2017, 10:39:05 amYes, exactly as I was saying would happen in the new Tek scope thread!But I never thought I'd be proved correct so soon!The next question is how far down their line of scopes will they take this and when?It's great to see them keeping the big boys on their toes!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 02:14:18 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on June 09, 2017, 02:08:21 pmHow about 2 to 4 years for the new platform to percolate down through the DS4000, DS2000 and DS1000 range?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 02:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 09, 2017, 02:14:18 pmYeah, that sounds about right. It probably depends on how fast the sales of those scopes starts to lag. The new low end Siglent and Keysight scopes will surely be impacting their sales.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:01:37 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on June 09, 2017, 02:08:21 pmActually, it may not be touch screen, I was dumb.Those likely aren't touch buttons on the bottom, just regular channel info display windows.Still has the left side button.No Rigol scope has menu buttons on the bottom, always left/right.But we'll see. They have obviously rejigged the interface somehow.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on June 09, 2017, 02:18:53 pmDoubtful. The 1054Z is still the only 4CH game in town.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 09, 2017, 03:01:37 pmBut the second picture sure looks like a touch screen to me. Even though there are buttons there, notice how large the menu items are, and there isn't a button for every menu item. And the bottom one has left and right arrows which would require touch, I think.Also, on the scope pic, there does not appear to be a vertical knob for every channel, though the blurred picture makes it hard to know for sure. A higher end scope without dedicated vertical knobs would surely need a touch screen, wouldn't it? Well, i guess we'll have to wait and see...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:57:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 09, 2017, 03:02:33 pmNot really. Micsig and GW Instek are also offering 4 channel scopes in the same price range which have some advantages over the Rigol 1054Z.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 03:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on June 09, 2017, 03:10:03 pmI think the number of buttons and menu items actually matches up - the top just says "Menu" (isn't an item) and the bottom item shows which menu page it's on, with the bottom button assumed to change menu pages.I'm not sure that it makes sense to have soft buttons on a touchscreen scope at all - the space they take could be better spent on more screen.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 04:38:40 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on June 09, 2017, 03:10:03 pmDespite the image, I think we can be pretty sure that there isn't 1 vertical knob per channel. There are only 7 knobs in that picture, and it's a 4 channel scope... Normally you'd expect 2 vertical knobs per channel, which is impossible.If they only have 1 knob per channel (e.g. they threw away the offset knob) that would still be impossible as there are only 3 "unknown" knobs left.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 04:46:25 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on June 09, 2017, 03:57:51 pmYes, I see what you mean It still seems to me that the screen tabs are curiously large if they are not meant to be touched. And the left/right buttons on the bottom item look like touch items.QuoteYes and no. Next to and duplicating touch screen functions would not make sense but I have seen it done. The Micsig handheld scopes do this. On the other hand, I do think that some soft buttons makes sense - as seen on the R&S scopes and the new Tek scope.Those new Rigol pics almost look like mock-ups. It may be that the interface is still a work in progress. We'll have to wait and see.Scope watching - the nerd spectator sport!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 05:24:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 09, 2017, 11:11:40 amAnd I though Mech was being kind stopping at #4.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 05:34:08 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on June 09, 2017, 05:24:28 pmYeah, Rigol DS4000 owner here. Here are some more:* Serial decodes did not work in segmented memory for years* Bad nonlinearities in front end (disappointing spurious performance in FFT)* Janky half-digital half-analog trigger causes waveforms to hop left and right by ~3ns while panning* Not even Pluses. There is no pulse counter at all* No heatsinks on ADCs, so they go bad in ~4 years* Takes minutes to save an image to USB drive

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 06:11:40 pm
content: This thread is degenerating nicely now, just like all the others. Haters gonna hate.Quote from: jjoonathan on June 09, 2017, 05:34:08 pmAnd... all the other brands are perfect?(and if they are, why did you buy Rigol?)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 06:20:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 09, 2017, 06:11:40 pmRigol knows how to incorporate good things in their product, that we loved much. but bad things need highlighting so they dont make the stupid mistakes again, esp on the high end of their product line... and with hope, some Rigol staff have an eye on this thread and take proper action on their existing product. but maybe this is just a false hope, the other "rigol bug" thread doesnt seem to produce anything fruitfull in term of their effort. but well, no need to further derail this thread

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 11:48:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 09, 2017, 06:11:40 pmWhy would I say that? Everyone knows it's all about tradeoffs. I'm in a position to share information about Rigol's tradeoffs, so I did.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 09:19:22 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 09, 2017, 03:57:16 pmThe GW Instek GDS 1054B is better performing for the basics, but has fewer extra features (decoding options seem to be fashionable) -- they're definitely competitive on spec, but don't seem to do marketing as well. I don't know much about Micsig, but thought that they were a fair bit more expensive.Siglent are likely to bring out a four channel variant of their latest low-end 'scope, but it would have to be lower bandwidth or require faster sampling if they want to keep 200 MHz.This new Rigol looks like a refresh of their top range with touch-screen. It will probably take a while for that to reach the budget end if the market.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 09:26:39 am
content: Quote from: boggis the cat on June 10, 2017, 09:19:22 amPersonally I'm not very interested in the budget end of the market. I like things to cost as little as possible but it has to work as specified out of the box. I have looked at Rigol's DS4000 series but the bugs/lack of fixes made me choose not to buy it. Another problem for Rigol DS4000/DS6000 series is that higher end oscilloscopes which aren't boat anchors from A-brands with decoding and other nice features are becoming available on the 2nd hand market for similar prices.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 09:43:21 am
content: Quote from: boggis the cat on June 10, 2017, 09:19:22 amthey can keep the 1GSps sampling rate fine and the DSO is still 200MHz BW front end... other brand incl Tek and Agilent has made DSO with sampling rate only 2.5X to 6.5X of the BW.. so 5X BW sampling rate is still perfectly fine..

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 11:02:13 am
content: It's about bang for the buck and what you need to get the job done. There is no perfect scope! Sometimes it makes more sense to buy cheapies for specific tasks instead of a quite expensive a-brand trying to get everthing in a single box. For example, my reaction to the price of the decoding options for R&S' new DSO was "WTF?". For that money I get a nice logic analyzer with much more bang.

author: Ink
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 11:29:18 am
content: there are some real pics of Rigol's new platform.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 11:54:05 am
content: I like the black case!- Bluetooth and speaker icon - Interesting- Multiple USB ports, hopefully mouse support - which I REALLY like on the RTB2ksIf Rigol dedicated more resources to FW, their higher end market could have some potential.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 12:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 10, 2017, 09:43:21 amThat gets shared per channel.1GS/s is for one channel, half that for two, then half again for four -- so only 250 MS/s per channel. That isn't nearly adequate for a 200 MHz signal (fine for 50 MHz, and 100 MHz is about the limit).They could derate the bandwidth as you step from two to three / four active channels, but that would be unusual.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 12:19:57 pm
content: Doesn't look like a touch enabled UI. That seems to be 'behind the market', now.(I don't much like the idea of getting greasy fingerprints all over a display that you may be trying to see fine detail on, but I guess that just shows that I am 'behind the market', too.)The materials look a bit 'cheap'. Why use a glossy black plastic that shows up any minor defects, when you can make it matt and it will look much better? Weird decision making.Hopefully they got the basics right, and have invested in their software engineering.

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 12:20:23 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on June 10, 2017, 11:54:05 amYes support for mouse, keyboard etc...

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 12:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: boggis the cat on June 10, 2017, 12:19:57 pmthe pictures doesn't represent well the real instrument, it looks amazing!

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 12:33:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ink on June 10, 2017, 11:29:18 amFollowing the mainboard picture the routing of the 4 AFE signals to one of the ADCs seems inconsistent to me. Typical if there are two ADCs for four channels to to operate the 2CH-20GS/s + 4CH-10GS/s modes the anlog differential signal routing must be different. Only 3 signals are routed to only one of the ADCs.My guess is that this picture shown in the product presentation is a fake.Was the product real? Does it have the 20GS/s or is a mockup?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 01:04:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ink on June 10, 2017, 11:29:18 amthe 3 USB is really spot on with the new Tek 2GHzsomebody must got a sneak peak during Tek design conference meeting, or is it just coincidence? or 3 USB is some holy number nowadays...Quote from: boggis the cat on June 10, 2017, 12:19:57 pmthat can be, but its not a critical criteria. its 4GHz and 20GSps (Tek is 2GHz 6.5GSps) if that scope is several magnitude cheaper than Tek's "new era" scope, i believe Tek will be a total loser (al;beit its 8ch).

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 07:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: rf-design on June 10, 2017, 12:33:28 pmWell spotted! How bizarre is that!Unless those units are something like FPGAs or DLPs, then maybe one of them is used for all four channels and the other is used for all other post processing. Or if one is used for four channels and the other is used for RF (in a MDO).Can anyone imagine any scenario other than this image is a faked/mockup?

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 07:41:02 pm
content: Quote from: technogeeky on June 10, 2017, 07:34:02 pmWhat possible remain is that the fourth differential analog signal connection from the AFE is strongly folded so that the solder mask is not clearly seen from a flat angle with bad lighting. Furtheron possible the jpg compression of the image reduce the remaining visible serpentines of the folded line. In this case all four channel go into one ADC.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 07:46:19 pm
content: Quote from: technogeeky on June 10, 2017, 07:34:02 pmHint: it is very unlikely to be a 1 layer board so where do the other traces go? Given the amount of space needed by the traces going to one ASIC the only explaination is that the other traces run at the other side of the board. Anyway, it is just a picture and I really don't care how a PCB is made if it works.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 07:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 10, 2017, 07:46:19 pmI knew that it's plausible that routing could be done on the other side of the board (except you wouldn't send 3 signals to one ASIC on one side, and then send 1 signal to the other side).So the plausible explanation is that this is a typical two-ADC configuration except the four channels are routed one side of the board for each. What would be the signal correspondence for each channel configuration?1ch: data goes to both ASICs2ch: one channel per ASIC?3/4ch: two channels per ASIC?

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2017, 09:24:34 pm
content: Looks to me like 4 channels going to the rear ADC (last one via a serpentine with poor contrast in the picture), and the front ADC connecting via 4 differential pairs and vias to the other side of the PCB.Maybe each channel has a switchable input to either ADC, to allow any combination of channels to have higher sampling rate/memory depth when 2 or more channels are unused? Otherwise you end up with limitations on which 2 channels can be used (i.e. (1 OR 2) AND (3 OR 4), not (1 AND 2) OR (3 AND 4)).

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 03:10:58 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on June 10, 2017, 09:24:34 pmSince they so proudly anounced higher front-end integration in their custom AFE ASIC, this makes sense.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 04:24:38 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on June 10, 2017, 07:34:02 pmYes. The scenario is well known, and that is : rigol has no idea what they do.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 06:12:13 am
content: The usual ugly Rigol front panel, just in black this time. Do people still need to be shown that knobs can also be pushed?

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 08:49:51 am
content: Thank you for the better translation.I have heard about Rigol designing an AFE inhouse about 2010. At this time they ad to hire IC designers. But did not heard about designing a complete 2017-medium class chipset. That is a much bigger surprise than the Tek-5-series. Designing a complete chipset over 10years mean about 10-25milion invest depending on the design group size over time. This will pay off only with a high number of units in the main business of the other 4 group members. Cost wise there is no issue to stuff all scopes with the same chipset because the NRE part of the cost, which could be a double digit factor have to payed already for ADI/TI/Xilinx and need not to send oversee.Technical interesting is that the Beta Phoenix should solve the long standing problem of a relay less AFE and improve on specs overlooked by others."Beta Phonenicis" has up to 4GHz bandwidth, with all needed modules for a digital oscilloscope integrated, plus 1M Ohm digital attenuator in order to achieve true silent acoustic noise free range switching. Thanks to its unique circuit design, its overload recovery in 1M Ohm mode has been reduced to 0.5% of current products.From the text it is not clear if 0.5% mean that overdrive recovery is1. 0.5% of the worst competition2. 0.5% of full scale3. 0.5% of overdriveNothing said about times and condition. I personal do not like the habit ofallsuppliers that well know imperfections by themselve of instruments have to find out by the user. Instrument selling is a different world than community goods.

author: TurboTom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 09:35:24 am
content: @blueskull: Thanks for the translation -- this clarifies some details.It also explains why Rigol connected all four channels to each of the two digitizing engines. As it seems, each of the digitizers is capable of 10GSa/s. If the new DSO is capable of 20GSa/s and 4GHz, it quickly becomes obvious that these are the figures for single channel operation and also why each input channels needs an analog connection to both digitizing engines.Moreover, this means that the 4GHz figure is barely feasible for two channel operation and won't be possible in four channel mode (unless they use equivalent time sampling which seems a little obsolete in instruments of this class nowadays). If this is a problem or not for a particular application and if the instrument is a real competitor in the global market at the pricing yet to be disclosed, the customer will finally decide. At least, it's not going to be a mainstream instrument with hunderd thousands of sold units. In this instrument class, probing already becomes a challenege and a lot of speciality knowledge / experience is required to take and interpret measurements properly.I definitely wish Rigol luck with their new design since a further competitor can only be good for the global T&M instrument market.Cheers,Thomas

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 09:47:49 am
content: Quote from: TurboTom on June 11, 2017, 09:35:24 amThey could use for a 4CH-20GS/s simply 4 ADCs chips at the production cost which are a fraction of the NRE. No problem to offer this. Aliasing in the case of breaking the useful 5x rule was not an issue in past for marketing and selling a scope.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 10:15:54 pm
content: This level of investment really brings a lot of excitement to the T&M market. If successful, the chipset proves (once again) how entry level markets can act as enablers of technology. I have seen both examples in the electronics industry, though.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 07:31:38 pm
content: Quote from: Ink on June 10, 2017, 11:29:18 amNice pictures! Did you attend the conference?Were there any handouts?The new design again confirms that Rigol has better designers in house than GW-Instek

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 09:13:56 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on June 11, 2017, 06:12:13 amI like the design, but I agree with the button thing. R&S and keysight do this as well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 07:39:25 am
content: MoreSo 1G memory, 20GS/s, 600Kwfps, 4GHz bandwidth, 1M FFT, touch, and most importantly , "fashionable"!

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 08:04:11 am
content: What is the source of these additional pictures Dave? Trump and the Russians?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 08:13:29 am
content: "Fashionable"

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 08:53:58 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 13, 2017, 08:04:11 amA Ukrainian guy in a trench coat in a dark alley at midnight.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 09:11:33 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 13, 2017, 08:13:29 amThey wrote that especially for pascal_sweden since he tends to care about that sort of things in test equipment

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 10:27:42 am
content: We live in interesting times indeed. Industries and competition are evolving so fast...

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 02:58:40 pm
content: "A Ukrainian guy in a trench coat in a dark alley at midnight."That are the best

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 06:22:49 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on June 11, 2017, 10:15:54 pmI guess you mean Chinese SoC companies like Allwinner Technology and Rockchip, which are both very successful.http://www.allwinnertech.com/http://www.rock-chips.com/a/en/

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 08:41:48 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 13, 2017, 06:22:49 pmI don't know the history of these companies, but seeing them today I think they can be considered two successful examples. Although Rigol's merit in developing a device without any mainstream IP such as an ARM core is, in my opinion, a much more remarkable feat.My sentence was not entirely clear, but I (and others for sure) have seen the opposite also happen: players in specific entry level markets completely undermine the investments in higher end technology. One example that comes to mind is the counterfeit market; another one is the race to the bottom in cost that takes down quality with it...

author: rf-design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:32:24 am
content: Please notice the small word introduced in the news textThis new platform release at the same time, RIGOL Synchronization also revealed a carrying " Phoenix"chipset and UltraVision II technology new digital oscilloscope platform prototype,it has 4 GHz analog bandwidth,20GSa/s real-time sampling rate, its release marks RIGOL global reach 4 GHz Bandwidth digital Oscilloscopes one of the five manufacturers, among the digital oscilloscope technology the first tier.http://int.rigol.com/News/Detail/23To present results of a prototype instead of a ready product is a message to investors too.The time horizont for a new product depend on the outcome of the prototype result. As many knows silicon respins including all work before and after easy could mean significant fractions of a year.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 03:32:16 am
content: I have the official english press release:Quote

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 05:58:26 am
content: This is not surprising, the Chinese government has been driving a LOT of money into R&D research. The military in particular really would like to have domestic T&M companies to do business with, instead of relying on the west. It was only a matter of time before this happened, good job on Rigol to make it happen.Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:01:28 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on July 04, 2017, 05:58:26 amThat would be interesting to know if they did get government funding for this?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 07:04:52 am
content: Not a word about upgrading the firmware department!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 09:50:23 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 04, 2017, 03:32:16 amWe'll see about that. Just having the BW and the sample rate isn't enough in this class, the large amounts of data that such a scope generates require a very fast processing backend. Also, customers rightfully expect a wide range of measurement and analysis capabilities in this class.QuoteI'll believe it when I see it. The last "Rigol price performance value proposition" outside the low-end/entry level class brought us the DS6000, an overpriced and slow embedded scope with very little measurement and analysis capabilities where after several years on the market major functionality is still buggy.The mid-range and high-end scope markets are a lot less price sensitive than the low-end/entry level segment, and if Rigol believes they can make an impression with another overpriced, buggy scope with an entry level feature set then they're again in for a big disappointment.

author: npeter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 12:25:01 pm
content: Any news about the new oscilloscope models?Should I hold my breath for a this year announcement maybe with some good initial promotions like R&S did with the RTB2000 series?They said that the new line would be available in Q4 2017.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 03:18:35 pm
content: I'd wait with buying anyway. If you wait the price may be lowered, irritating bugs fixed and hacks may become available. R&S still hasn't fixed many bugs in the RTB2000 and they don't have a stellar record when it comes to fixing bugs in a timely manner. All in all the initial deal isn't that good. I want to use a scope and not pay for the privilige to be a software beta tester.