My first oscilloscope,but which one ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2016, 11:55:10 pm
content: Im thinking to buy anSIGLENT SDS1102Xas my 1st scope ,but im not sure ,because im pretty beginner in this kind of stuff ..I wish a scope which will be not expensive like my right kidney ,but i also wish an good scope for at least 5 years .What i can choose ?im an hobbyst and i like to work on digital electronics ,ecc.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 12:04:23 am
content: Normally we recommend the Rigol DS1054Z.It has 4 channels and many features like serial decoders which is very useful for digital electronics. It costs $400.Below that there's really not much worth having. That's just the way it is.

author: billfernandez
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 12:11:00 am
content: Ditto what Fungus said.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 12:28:22 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 20, 2016, 11:55:10 pmThey're currently Siglents best seller and a good choice IMO.All my customers that have selected an 1102X have been well pleased with their decision.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 01:06:09 am
content: @lg_sherwoord: What is the budget? Did you read the recent threads about people looking for an oscilloscope? I think most of your questions will be answered there.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 01:10:43 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 21, 2016, 01:06:09 am400 euros MAX...MAX...MAX

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 01:33:20 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 21, 2016, 01:10:43 amCareful studyof any datasheets and examination of the current specials being offered need also be taken into consideration.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 02:04:11 am
content: Actually im working on projects like DIY Metcal Power Supply and unisolder 5.2

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 02:29:22 am
content: There must be a dozen threads in the last month or so on this very topic. Some get quite heated. Some drift around the bend where prices escalate beyond all reason for a hobbyist. In the end, it comes down to a few scopes (three or four) that are worthy entry level devices.Just do a search on DS1054Z and see what comes up. Ignore any functionality discussions prior to the firmware release in Sept 2016 (currently unavailable because it doesn't work on very old machines, or so I have read). The point is, I have a Tek 485 and I bought the DS1054Z for the 4 channels and serial decoding. It brings a lot more to the dance than just that! I really like the scope.That's not to say I wouldn't also like the Siglent or the GW-Instek or Rhodes and Schwartz products or even some of the others. Were I rich instead of retired, Keysight might be my first choice. But the DS1054Z is an excellent choice for the money and by the time you get another brand that is similar in spec to the unlocked 1054 (unlocking discussed elsewhere), you're looking at somewhat over $1000. I'll take the $400 model and keep the change.There are certainly alternatives out there but, bang for buck, the DS1054Z is pretty hard to beat. Last week, this time, we were talking about Tequipment.net having 2660 units in stock. Today there inventory is down to 1879. By the time the 7 days is up, they will have sold about 1000 DS1054Zs. That seems like a lot... Christmas, probably...http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=7233

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 05:00:27 pm
content: In this thread there is a link to a very long video Dave did re: DS1054Z features:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-1054z-new-user-questions/

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 05:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 21, 2016, 02:04:11 amAt 400 Euro the DS1054Z is unbeatable simply because you can easily unlock more features and make it into a 1000 Euro oscilloscope (equivalent price if it were from another manufacturer).If you're planning to keep it for five years then four channels and 100MHz wins.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 06:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on December 21, 2016, 05:28:54 pm5 years is a long time and a hacked DS1054Z isn't comparable with a 1000 euro oscilloscope. At that price level better options get in reach. As usual there is the choice between getting a cheap & limited tool for now and see how long it remains useful or spending more and get something which is up to more demanding tasks and is likely to stay useful for a longer time.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 06:36:50 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 21, 2016, 06:09:07 pmA DS0154Zwillbe useful for a long time. If the budget is 400 Euros then, that's the option...

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 21, 2016, 06:58:20 pm
content: Look: if you are a beginner, then go for it.Tell you this, because when things goes wrong, you fry a 400 Euro item, not a 6.000 one. Making mistakes, especially as a beginner, is easy and, you make things first and ask questions later... It's normal....

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 12:12:45 am
content: Quote from: R005T3r on December 21, 2016, 06:58:20 pmSto preparando il mio rene destro e un bulbo oculare ,perchè magari mi prenderò un rohde-schwarz ,oppure un teledyne ..

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 12:27:59 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 12:12:45 amThen why did you put a MAX of 400 Euros in Reply #5?

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 12:39:00 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 22, 2016, 12:27:59 amIm just sarcastic ,lool

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 12:44:12 am
content: However ,i like to draw my own wifi antennas ,so i suppose that an scope will be not enough for me

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 12:51:53 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 12:44:12 amQuite possibly not.From another thread looking at TG's as a HF source:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tracking-generator-as-a-simple-signal-generator/msg1096043/#msg1096043

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 01:03:49 am
content: This might be of interest to you if you have a month to spare. I need a DS1054Z for a month. I'll buy it tomorrow from Batronix, add the "100MHz stuff" when received and will sell it in a month. I'll also sell a MiniVNA-Tiny (for your antennas). 100EUR less from the list price each.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 11:04:19 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 12:12:45 amEsattamente... Già che ci sei, perchè non vendi anche la casa e la macchina?

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 04:13:49 pm
content: But in the case if my budget would be from 1500 to 2000 Max !!!Which of DSO i can buy from hameg ,lecroy or rohde schwarz ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 05:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 04:13:49 pmThere is nothing interesting from any of those manufacturers in that price range. Currently the GW Instek GDS-2204E is the best option with a budget like that.In the 4000 to 10,000 euro range you can start looking at Keysight and R&S (not Hameg!).

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 07:48:05 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 04:13:49 pmDefinitely hameg, which is rohde schwarz now...

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 07:51:55 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on December 22, 2016, 07:48:05 pmHAMEG® HMO2024 Digital Oscilloscope???

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2016, 10:18:05 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 21, 2016, 01:10:43 am400 euro ds 1054z with free shippinghttp://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html

author: vpetrog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 10:37:09 am
content: excuse me but after searching for a while i believe that the only drawback of the siglent compared to rigol is the 2 channels. I think whithout owning neither of them, that siglent outperforms the rigol in every other category

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 12:41:09 pm
content: Quote from: vpetrog on December 23, 2016, 10:37:09 amwhich model of siglent?

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 06:04:39 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 22, 2016, 07:51:55 pm

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 06:53:23 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on December 22, 2016, 11:04:19 amO da in affitto la moglie...

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 11:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on December 23, 2016, 06:04:39 pmWell, that's a nice scope at 7x the cost of the DS1054Z. In the beginning, there was a budget. I guess that's out the window...

author: NorthGuy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 11:22:45 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on December 23, 2016, 11:02:29 pmand with a smaller screen

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 11:56:41 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on December 23, 2016, 06:04:39 pmAny chance what is shown at about 0:40 in the video could benefit from probe compensation?

author: Mitsch
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 12:07:41 am
content: A few weeks ago i bought a Rigol DS1054z from conrad or voelkner (can't remember - but it is one company) and I don't regret it. It's a very good device and hey - you'll get a 800€ scope for 400€...There are no other scopes with those value for money in this range... I would buy it again!

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 04:47:15 am
content: Quote from: Karel on December 23, 2016, 06:53:23 pmNiente paura ragazzi , io sono un mandrillo !!!senza moglie rompi palle e marmocchi attorno.Quindi a questo punto spendere anche 3000 euro per un teledyne WaveSurfer 3000 non sarà un problema.P.S :Attualmente l'idea di dare in affitto la moglie, me ne fa venire la voglia di averne una(ma solo a questo scopo)

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:29:02 am
content: opinione personale ma in questo budget (400) l'unico oscilloscopio a non essere un cesso e/o non troppo limitato è il picoscope. siglent mi pare comunque meglio di rigol ma alla fine il software degli oscilloscopi in questa fascia rende tutto inutilizzabile in modo produttivo. prendi un rigol, prova a usare decodifica e serial triggering e capisci perché è gratis/non fanno storie per crackarlamorale: se vuoi spendere un minimo accettabile per lavorare e non giocare lascia perdere le cinesate tarocchissime

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:33:11 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on December 24, 2016, 07:29:02 amMa dai ... quindi HAMEG® HMO2024 è un cesso ?Insomma ,mettiamo caso che il mio budget sia di 1500 e 2000 qualcosa...cosa potrei scegliermi a questo punto

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:34:05 am
content: avevo letto solo la prima metà del topic D: (editato)R&S non lo guardo quasi mai, che prezzi... ma nella tua fascia ho tenuto d'occhio abbastanza a lungo pico 5000 e gds-2000e da essere indeciso tra i duenel mio caso, l'hameg non ha decodifica can. (in progress=SE viene fuori farò da beta tester... nah.)gds: relativamente economico e pare non abbia tutte le magagne software di quelli sotto di lui, le "options" sono estensioni del firmware gratuitepico: per come ho impostata la scrivania è perfetto, ho già tutti i dati sotto mano a portata di click, il 5000 è usb 3 e quindi dovrei essere in grado di avere wfm/s molto più alte e trigger rearm molto più veloce rispetto ai 2/3000. decodifica anche can fd/flexray/sent. solo per quello sennò dovrei andare su ws3k+option e mso3000xt+option

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:48:11 am
content: Please can we stop the italian posts. if you can't post in english then please bugger off and join an italian forum, the fact that I can understand italian makes no difference i will still delete your posts and ban you even if what you have to say in italian is not objectionable, although your plans for women are somewhat backward like the country you are from!

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:55:42 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 07:48:11 amOk Boss.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 07:56:52 am
content: as other said, the ds1054z is the best bang for buck today, and especially if you unlock it with all options.you said you're a beginner, then buy this one, get familiar with it, know all it can do, and know all it cannot dothen you will have more power in your brain to decide which better scope in the 2000€ range you will buy.and also may be the 400€ rigol will be far enough for your needs, and you will forget about the 2000+€ one ?

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:02:57 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 24, 2016, 07:56:52 amMaybe you're right ,but i have not yet wise in my head if an oscilloscope can replace an rf analizer like an spectrum analizer ...Im working on an diy 13.56 mhz metcal power supply ,so for this im confused as this things works with rf ......

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:07:22 am
content: Generally oscilloscopes don't make good spectrum analysers

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:19:15 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 24, 2016, 08:02:57 am+1 with Simon on this one : scopes are not spectrum analyzers.again: buy the ds1054, see what you cannot see in the rf field, and buy a spectrum analyzer if you really need it after that.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:23:47 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on December 24, 2016, 08:19:15 amActually i really need an spectrum analizer for my metcal power supply and for testing my wifi antennas .So i don't know which one to get at good price.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 07:48:11 amsorry for thatQuoteapologize for that, please.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:21:20 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on December 24, 2016, 08:28:53 amHey, I've lived there, I'm still scarred although it was the deep south, but the comments on women were typical, perhaps you can appologize to your wives

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:23:04 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 24, 2016, 08:23:47 amI have heared you can get decent USB connected ones now but still more than your entry level scope. With the arrival of USB 3.0 the bandwidth of the link to the computer is less of a problem now but you will need a decent computer with plenty of RAM.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:31:18 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 24, 2016, 08:23:47 amYou should learn some of the old radio amateur techniques for testing rigs with minimal test equipment. A good starting point would be a (sine wave) signal generator plus directional couplers plus power meter.The only way in which a scope might help with an antenna is as a TDR followed by an FFT, but obviously the analogue bandwidth is a little important!

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:36:37 am
content: I would look at GW Instek 1000b it have very good FFT,cost same as Rigol 1054Z.I dont know if it can be hacked,I never owned either of these but I think the GW is solid alternative to Rigol,and when OP needs FFT and is limited in this price range I think its best choice,I cant imagine splitting the already low budget to separate spectrum analyser and scope would be betterjump to 9:00Dave praised Rohde & Schwartz/Hammeg HMO1202 for its excellent superior FFT functionality,the GW Instek is just as good and is third of the price ( 400e vs 1200e ) Only other scope in this pricerange with similiar powerfull FFT seems to be Picoscope,but the decent one starts at 450,thats 50 more than GW/Rigol and its PC scope

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:59:30 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 09:21:20 amone more reason for you to apologize. say all the crap you want as an user and individual, i don't give a damn. as a moderator, as you were in that post, not so much.Quoteyou should listen to a woman (from any country) speak to other women about her man

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:00:43 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on December 24, 2016, 09:36:37 amno need to hack! you download the "app" for free on their website1054b doesn't have serial decoding though..

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:18:57 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 09:21:20 amAll because I made a joke about women.Political correctness is destroying everything...

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:22:31 am
content: Won't someone think of the italian wives ?!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:24:50 am
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 08:07:22 amThat depends entirely on what you want to achieve. An oscilloscope doesn't not have a large dynamic range like a spectrum analyser but an oscilloscope with fast & long FFT has a much higher speed and frequency resolution AND it works down to DC. I have a spectrum analyser but I use the FFT on my oscilloscope more often to look at the frequency domain of a signal.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:40:24 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on December 24, 2016, 09:59:30 amWell as a moderator (and fellow 1/4 italian) I am sorry. If it was such comments from a woman about a man they would equally be deemed unacceptable and the particular nature of comment you two exchanged would hardly be directed at a man by a woman and going either way no such comments would be tolerated in english, it's nothing to do with political correctness, it's basic civility. I was alerted to the thread because it had descended into an exchange in a non english language, unbeknown to you i kew exactly what you were saying, now your surpised and feeling caught out!

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:04:16 am
content: And yet, as a moderator knowledgeable about basic civility and to which we all look up to, you described Italy as a backward country. Someone alert the ambassador !Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 07:48:11 am

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:05:51 am
content: Quote from: Koen on December 24, 2016, 11:02:11 amAnd i clarify that with having lived there for 14 unpleasant years (My granmother was italian). and i beleive i have apologized. Shall we get on with the topic at hand or is that also finished with ?

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 11:08:27 am
content: Ho I missed your credentials.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 03:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on December 24, 2016, 10:40:24 amperfectabout the speaking in other languages: we were breaking the rules and you were right about it. just don't talk about things you probably have no idea about as a moderator. as an user, do what you want of course!ps: been in england quite a bit, have yet to see something that makes me think milan, my bologna or even my hometown in the countryside, the cities i've lived almost all my life, are from a "backward place".that said, peace outhappy holidays

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 08:33:16 am
content: MSOX3012T Mixed Signal Oscilloscope: 100 MHz, 2 Analog Plus 16 Digital Channelsis my target for the future ....

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 09:39:34 am
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 26, 2016, 08:33:16 amWhat's changed ?QuoteDid you not know about a Siglent SDS1102X+ ? (16 ch MSO version with 25 MHz AWG)

author: AndyP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 10:11:45 am
content: When evaluating 'scopes last year I tried both the R&S HMO and R&S RTM scopes, they are very different 'scopes.R&S RTM scopes (we evaluated the R&S RTM 2034) are IMHO better than the Keysight MSO 3034T (the default company 'scope, at the same price point), and has the well designed and finish and feel of R&S kit I'm used to.R&S HMO scopes (we evaluated the R&S HMO 3054), the HMO 'scope are targeted at a lower budget and present good value at that price point, but it is a step down from the RTM and RTE scopes.In short it feels like HMO scopes are still Hameg scope with an R&S label where as the RTM scopes feel like a full R&S quality design.On a separate note, if you need a battery powered 'scope the MicSig TO1104 makes a good offering, (my first home 'scope I bought just over a month ago).There is an investigation of the licensing/hack in this thread.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-tablet-oscilloscope-tbook-mini-to1000/I also put a written review in this thread giving my thoughts on it, but the Mikeselecricstuff review above is much deeper.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-to1104-(similar-to-rigol-1104z)/