How to improve Solenoids open/close response time ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 07:37:01 pm
content: I am designing a board to control Solenoids, I'll use TIP122s to control them.How I can make them open/close faster ?I found this circuit online, by adding a zener diode placed in series will improve the the latch-out response.Source:https://www.theleeco.com/engineering/electrical-engineering/lee-solenoid-valve-drive-circuit-schematics/Could some one explain how dose this supposed to do so ?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 07:49:58 pm
content: When the solenoid is deenergized, the field collapses into the diode and the current flow through the diode and winding keeps the solenoid engaged until the voltage drops to essentially the Vf of the diode and it ceases to conduct. Adding a zener diode increases the voltage at which the circuit ceases to flow current through the diodes, releasing the solenoid sooner.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 08:07:07 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 11, 2019, 07:49:58 pmThank you for your replay.Do you have any ideas how to make it open faster?

author: viperidae
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 08:20:16 pm
content: Increase the voltage if you want it to operate faster

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 08:43:52 pm
content: You can activate it with twice the voltage and switch to lower holding voltage. You can use twice the rated voltage and a resistor and capacitor. Initially it gets twice the voltage but as the capacitor discharges the volatge settles at a lower point. This is good if the solenoid does not consume great power for long periods of time.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:08:44 pm
content: It's all about voltage.If you apply a higher voltage, it will close faster. You'll need to drop the voltage to operating voltage after that, of course.Same thing when releasing: allowing a higher kick-back voltage will make it faster.

author: unitedatoms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:09:57 pm
content: I remembered nice relay/solenoid bootstrap driver based on precharged capacitorFinally found the article. It is on last page of this pdfhttps://m.eet.com/media/1154107/25323-bootstrap_circuit_speeds_solenoid_actuation_pdf.pdf

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:12:34 pm
content: Research peak and hold fuel injector drivers

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 11, 2019, 08:07:07 pmThe fastest it will run is with no diodes but that isn't possible because there is a body diode in the MOSFET.There is a possibility of some kind of capacitive discharge circuit that forcibly opens the solenoid by driving a reverse current through the inductor. No, I don't now how to do it and I didn't find much on Google.Here's a circuit that is interesting but it only works on pull-in:https://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/what-s-all-solenoid-driver-stuff-anyhowBasically, you have a lot of stored energy in the inductance and all the time it is discharging, there is current flow through the solenoid.Here's an idea: Use Bob's circuit above to pull the solenoid in and then reduce the current to some lower value for hold-in. Now when it comes time to drop out, you have less current flow so less stored energy and the release is faster. Couple that with the Zener approach and maybe you'll have something.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 09:20:56 pm
content: You can look into how car fuel injectors operate and how accurate timing is achieved.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 10:06:30 pm
content: Some cars use an ingenious system for the solenoid which activates the starter motor. The solenoid engages the starter gear and also connects the starter motor. The solenoid has two windings; one goes directly to gnd while the other one goes to gnd through the starter motor winding. At first both windings are energized but once the solenoid has moved one winding is no longer active and only the other one is enough to provide holding force.In any case, there is a mechanical limit on how fast things can move. You can improve a bit by using more voltage to activate and reverse voltage to deactivate but if you need really fast response you will need to design the entire electro-mechanical thing from scratch. For instance, a solenoid with a short travel which moves a lever which amplifies the distance.

author: viperidae
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2019, 10:09:54 pm
content: Have a look at this datasheet, it's a peak and hold injector driver.http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm1949.pdfThe injector opens fast, as 4x normal current is applied, it then lowers to a 1x holding current.The lower holding current means it turns off faster, as there is a smaller magnetic field to collapse.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 02:34:16 pm
content: Or remove the free wheeling diode and put the zener in reverse parallel with the transistor.Yes bootstrapping can be used to double the supply voltage. I did a simulation awhile back with LTSpice.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/12v-dc-to-110vac-pure-sine-converter/msg2221902/#msg2221902

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 03:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on March 11, 2019, 09:17:46 pmthe body diode is in the opposite direction, with no external diode the flyback voltage will be limited by the mosfet avalanche voltagewhich the mosfet might be rated for and and do just fine

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 04:03:57 pm
content: I would research what happens to lifetime of these components if you start slamming them with transients.Is there lifetime literature? It seems like a engineering bear

author: tecman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 07:03:47 pm
content: Bootstrapping and zener are the way to go. But be aware that with higher switching duty cycles bootstrapping will increase overall solenoid current resulting in higher temps, and will also increase dissipation in the zener. Be sure to evaluate both. Higher zener voltage will decrease off times, but the limits are the higher voltages on the rest of the switching components.Paul

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 11:09:10 am
content: Wow, A lot of answers. Thank you all guys !I'll go with Bob's drawings.. Seems that it 'll fit my needs. Specifically the rapid speed operation.I'll use this circuitI am using 24v 6.5w solenoids..What transistors should I use ? Should the 3 transistors rated to this power or only Q3 should be a big one and the others are a small ones ?If I added the Zener trick to the circuit. Will it help or not ?By the way, I am driving about 200 solenoids, many times per second.I started this project back in 2012, I Built thishttps://youtu.be/YtlYc2bzUEs?t=10.Now I am trying to build a new one with batter valves, better performance & a Bigger size !Thank you all !

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 02:39:51 pm
content: Anyone ?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 03:45:28 pm
content: That schematic does not look right to me. Why did you make changes to the original?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 04:50:17 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 16, 2019, 03:45:28 pmNothing Changed, It's the original schematic from the website

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 06:27:54 pm
content: It doesn't look right to me. I was thinking of the one posted in #6 which looks good mutatis mutandis.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 06:41:00 pm
content: Loved the aqua display in the video - look forward to seeing the new one!You know, the biggest factor in getting the water "up to speed" may be the water itself! Maybe the response speed could improve if you had some springy tubes close to the valves that would act as a bypass capacitor for the water, to help it respond quickly! - also avoid long thin tubes that increase the water's "inductance"...Maybe do like a car fuel injection system, where a relatively large tube (the fuel rail) feeds the injectors as close as possible, with a pressure regulator close to the valves. This is all done to improve the transient response of the injection cycles, sounds like you have the same challenges!

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 06:55:24 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 16, 2019, 06:27:54 pmI think this circuit have an issue with my application.I open/close the valves rapidity, on the first time It will work great, But If I opened again after a small time the capacitor will not have charged yet, And the open pulse will not be the same, (I THINK SO) !That's why I am interested in the mentioned on replay #8, On Fig 3, It all about rapid speed operation, And looks very promising on Scope too.Accurate open/close voltage every time at high speed.Quote from: SilverSolder on March 16, 2019, 06:41:00 pmYes I doI am trying to fine tune every piece step by step, After making the control PCBs working as best as I can, I'll play with water flow,pressure And lights to make it better ! Thank u

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 07:37:03 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 16, 2019, 06:55:24 pmOh, OK, I understand now.One way to deal with that would be to replace the charging resistor with a transistor so the capacitor would charge faster.If you have many valves in a complex system you wight want to consider having two rails (+V, 0, -V) so you can first connect between +V and -V and then switch to half voltage.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 08:08:26 pm
content: The bootstrapping idea is a good one. Note that each transistor should have its own base resistor, which has been omitted from the schematic.To improve the turn off speed, a zener diode can be added in reverse parallel with Q2.Yes, the main drawback with that circuit is it takes awhile for C1 to charge, via R1which will limit the repetition rate. R1 can be replaced with a current source or better still, another transistor. THe Hfe of Q3 will determine the charging current, so there's a bit of "Hfe suicide" here, but it should be fine.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:13:05 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 16, 2019, 07:37:03 pmThank you for your suggestion.Quote from: Zero999 on March 16, 2019, 08:08:26 pmIs the inductor Necessary ? What it do in this circuit ?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:19:29 pm
content: @Albatroon, I have two questions:You have not really told us about your application. What switching speeds are you targeting? Beyond spped, how many switching cycles (per hour, per day, over the lifetime of the product) do you need? Are relays the right solution, or should you look at solid-state switches?Who the heck is Bob?You start referring to "Bob's design" mid-thread, but I could not find a reference for that?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:26:33 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 16, 2019, 10:19:29 pmI posted my project on Replay #16.. Here's my replay:Quote from: Albatroon on March 13, 2019, 11:09:10 amAnd about Bob's design.. It took awhile for me too to find what "rstofer" mean on replay #8.Quote from: rstofer on March 11, 2019, 09:17:46 pmBob's design is herehttps://www.electronicdesign.com/analog/what-s-all-solenoid-driver-stuff-anyhowThank you

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:01:22 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 16, 2019, 10:13:05 pmThe inductor represents the solenoid of course.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 16, 2019, 10:26:33 pmOh, thank you -- and my apologies for overlooking that information in your earlier post.That is a pretty cool project indeed!Obviously, solid-state water valves are hard to come by, so solenoids it is...How long do they typically last in this application?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 16, 2019, 11:10:31 pmThank you, solenoids are working great since 2012.. The only problem i faced with my PCB designs, I had 24 pcs of 595's exploded on meIt was a wrong design and I overloaded the ULN2803A chips, one of them burnt and 24v return on Negative, all board destroyedOther than, Valves are working good till now..

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:36:30 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 16, 2019, 11:01:22 pmWill this circuit work If i changed the Transistors with Darlington transistors ?My solenoid are working on 24v, ~0.4A I need a bigger transistors to drive them.And if it possible, Should I change the 3 or only q2 ?And What software you used for this simulation ?Thank you

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 12:04:16 am
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 16, 2019, 11:36:30 pmWhy do you think you need bigger transistors?The BC337 is rated to 800mA, double the current rating of your solenoids,https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/BC337-D.PDFDarlington transistors will work in the circuit, but they have a much higher saturation voltage. Even the circuit I posted with no modifications will drop less voltage than the same one with Darlington pairs.I used LTSpice to simulate the circuit. Some say it has a steep learning curve, but I found it fairly straightforward.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 01:01:54 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 17, 2019, 12:04:16 amI'll try this software, Looks simple!What Zener should I use ? Any one would work ? Should I get a big one, Like 1w zener ? or anything will work ?Thank u

author: Teledog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 04:17:38 am
content: Perhaps I've missed something..but how about sealed SSRs?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 07:06:24 am
content: Instead of zener diodes use transorb diodes, 5W ones will work well there, and using bidirectional ones will be fine, just put them directly across the terminals of the solenoids, so the spike is attenuated the most before it reaches the control board. Voltage is selected so the peak voltage, at the solenoid operate current through the diode, is less than the maximum recommended voltage of your power switching device less the maximum supply voltage from your power supply. That way the magnetic field collapses the fastest, while still allowing the power switch to survive.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 08:16:48 am
content: Albatroon, this is a cool and very interesting project. Some thoughts:The speed with which the solenoid can move is only one factor in how fast the water flow will start or stop. At these fast speeds every little thing counts.What pressure are you using for the water? What solenoid valves are you using? Are they designed for fast response? Because there is only so much you can do with the electronics and you need to look also at the electromechanical and fluids aspects. I see there are "fast" valves that have a response time of about 20 mS and you can get super-fast valves that will respond in 2 mS.You should try to avoid long tubes that add inertia to the fluid. The best design would be to have the valve right next to the jet orifice and connected, not to a long pipe but to a common manifold water header for all the valves.The switching transistor should be oversized in current and voltage specs. While the solenoid armature is moving the inductance decreases a lot and the current increases a lot. And the switching voltage transients should be limited with zener diodes or other means.Also, heat dissipation and operating temperature should be taken into account.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 08:42:42 am
content: Quote from: Teledog on March 17, 2019, 04:17:38 amYes, I believe you did miss something. (I'll reply since I had missed it too...) This project is not about driving relays, but solenoid-operated valves to control liquid flow. See replies 16 and 27 above.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 09:39:12 am
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 08:16:48 amThank you for your reply, I am only using the gravity feed pressure, This allow the dropped pixels to be at lowest speed.The solenoid valves I used is the best valves I can pay for, In this version I am using 192 solenoid valves.Those ultra fast solenoid valves are very expensive. I Used the best Chinese solenoid valves I can find and afford.I am fine tuning this new build step by step. stating with the control boards, Than I'll play with pressure, tubes, Orifices & maybe some RGBsThank you for your help

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 11:06:36 am
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 17, 2019, 09:39:12 amOK, this changes how I see the problem very radically. I think you probably do not need high speed valves at all and you probably do not need to make your valves open particularly fast. You probably do not need any bootstrap circuit to make the solenoid move faster. We are talking fairly low speeds here.Here is something I would do. Measure the time between voltage applied to solenoid and water starts flowing. Measure time between power shut off from solenoid and water stops flowing. If those two numbers are quite similar then there will just be a delay between electrical signals and water flow but that is irrelevant. If they are substantially different then you can account for that in software.At this point I do not think making the solenoid valves act faster is going to have any appreciable effect and I would try to go with the simplest solenoid switch with a single transistor.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 11:13:49 am
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 11:06:36 am.Noted, Thank you, I'll do more tests before designing new PCBsThank you for your support

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 11:36:37 am
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 08:16:48 amIncreasing the voltage and therefore the current to the solenoid might make it switch faster, because it will apply more force to the valve.Putting the solenoids, as near to the jets as possible is good advice. It will also help if the tube after the solenoids is as rigid as possible.Quote from: Albatroon on March 17, 2019, 01:01:54 amThe power rating of the zener depends on the operating frequency and the inductance of the solenoid.Thinking about this circuit in more detail, how are you driving it? I know you mentioned the 595: is that the old TTL type i.e. the 74(LS)595 or 74HC(T)595? If you're using the old TTL type, then it won't have enough drive to Q1 and Q2. I'd recommend the 74AC(T)595, which should be able to drive the circuit directly.Other possibilities are: Darlington pairs for Q1 and Q2, additional driver transistors, or MOSFETs which would require an additional driver IC.One thing I didn't consider before is the power dissipation in Q3, which could be too high if it's switched frequently enough. Dissipating some of the power in a series resistor would help.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 12:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 17, 2019, 11:36:37 amYes, we all agree on that but at this point I am not convinced it would make much or any difference. I think other factors, like low water pressure, have much more of an effect than the speed of the solenoid. And what is the need, anyway?I am reminded of a story about a French general who was visiting some military base and said he wanted a certain road lined on both sides with a certain kind of tree (I forget the exact type). The gardener in charge was called and the general told him "tomorrow morning I want you to plant rows of (type?) trees on both sides of the road because they would look good and provide shade." The gardener remarked to the general that those trees grew very, very slowly and took over one hundred years to reach maturity to which the general said "well, then, we better not wait and you should start planting them this very afternoon".At this point I am not convinced speeding up the actuation of the valve does anything other than complicate the project and introduce causes for problems down the road.Albatroonwhat makes you think of the need for this? What is the problem you are trying to solve?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 12:14:17 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 12:03:26 pmThere's no problems at all, I can drive the valves with simple Transistor. I did it before and worked good enough.All what I am hopping is MAKE IT BETTER. IThat's why I doing my research, Asking here.. Testing different circuits to Achieve the best result !Quote from: Zero999 on March 17, 2019, 11:36:37 amI am using 74HC595, And It's the only option for me here in Egypt.I'll breadboard this circuit today and check with the scope, Wish me luck !Thank you All !

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 01:17:51 pm
content: Hi,Just to note, the energy stored in the coil is proportional to the Volt Seconds which is simply volts times the time in seconds. That means to dissipate a given energy W first the stored energy can be looked at as:W=v*s*Kwith K a constant, and to dissipate that energy we have to dissipate W units, so we have the same:W=v*s*KNow if we quantify the energy going in:W1=v1*t1*Kand going out:W2=v2*t2*Kand so with unsigned voltages we must have close to:W2=W1to dissipate nearly all the energy.This simply means:v2*t2*K=v1*t1*Kreducing, we get:v2*t2=v1*t1and if we solve for the dissipation time we get:t2=t1*v1/v2and here it is plain to see that as we increase v2 the time t2 reduces and that's the goal.t1 is automatically limited because of the fixed voltage v1, but obviously if v1 is lowered t2 reduces that way too.So the rule is minimum v1, maximum v2. The practical limit on v2 is closely related to the drain source voltage rating of the transistor so the choice of transistor is also a key factor.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 01:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 17, 2019, 12:14:17 pmMake it better? That is quite vague. Better in what way? Because complicating the drive circuit for no discernable effect is not going to make it "better" but will make it more complex, expensive and prone to failures.If you want to improve something, anything, the first thing to establish is what exactly are we trying to achieve. "Better" is meaningless as too broad.You have a working design but you want to make it "better". If a viewer saw the initial product and then the improved product in what way would he say it is better?Because, you might have heard "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I do not know what we are trying to fix here.Suppose we add some electronics and the solenoid opens one millisecond faster. What effect will it have? What leads you to believe the effect will be noticeable?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 03:57:53 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 01:21:05 pmI mean by better here a better resolution.If the valves Open/Closed faster than they are now, It supposed to have a better image quality.Maybe If i forced those valves with a better drivers I achieve my goal..And I'll compare the classic transistor driver with this new circuit to see if any Improvement.I saw some videos for companies out there built this fountain, Some of them looks amazing.I know that my valves are not the best.. I am just trying to get the most performance out of them.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 04:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: MrAl on March 17, 2019, 01:17:51 pmToo much for a Hobbyist to understand

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 05:04:30 pm
content: Isn't it common practice for higher performance to drive stepper motors with a higher voltage than rated, but with a series resistance to limit the steady-state current. The reasoning being that provides a higher immediate current (while the coil is "charging") for fast action, while limiting "resting" current to safe levels for the motor.There are several different designs of solenoid-operated valves. I would think that the exact nature of the valve design (and the static pressure of the source) might be even more critical parts of this exercise than the speed at which you can drive it open and closed.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 05:25:38 pm
content: I have been involved in a similar project before, which did a similar thing but with high pressure air. Instead of bootstrapping or series resistors, a separate higher voltage power supply was used. A negative supply voltage was also used to speed up the turn off time. Unfortunately I wasn't involved in the design, so can't comment on whether any of it was necessary. I think the higher positive voltage might have helped with the speed, but I thing the negative voltage was just an over-complication.It's possible that the solenoid might not be the main bottleneck in the speed, but more investigation is necessary to determine this.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 06:17:48 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 17, 2019, 05:25:38 pmI think this is very possibly the case. If you want to move the water faster you need to put pressure on the water, not just open the gate faster.Some decades ago I was maintaining some Kodak machinery for making color prints from negatives. The machine would advance the negative and the paper and then the negative was scanned for color balance, exposure, etc. With that information a shutter and three color filters were swung out by their solenoids and then each color filter was swung in and finally the opaque shutter was swung in and that was the end of that print. The exposure times of each color were measured in milliseconds and were crucial for good print results. The machine could be doing over 200 prints / minute.Due to filter lag the software would run a setup and measure how long it took each individual filter and shutter to move in and out after activation. Those values were then stored and used and taken into account by the software together with lamp intensity, color balance, etc.It was essential that the filters move *fast* in and out. The delay was just compensated for in the software.The machine was run by a minicomputer (this was before microprocessors) and the program was stored on TTY paper tape. Fun times!

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 06:42:59 pm
content: I totally understand that this maybe a waste of time. Maybe !And Maybe It will do something.. And Maybe I'll use this circuit later with another faster valves.The only way to know If it will change something or not, Is trying it and compare with the classic driver.And that's what I am doing now. testing testing testing..Thank you all

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 06:52:57 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 06:17:48 pmOr you could vary the surface tension and/or viscosity of the liquid.Alcohol, detergents, ... ?

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 07:21:48 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 06:17:48 pmI tried playing with the pressure before, The falling shapes was dropping very fast, Also it was hard to recognize the displayed image.This is a drop back for any increasing in pressure, The water will run faster.So, The only way to get the shapes to run as slow as possible was using only gravity feed pressure.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 08:18:00 pm
content: To slow the speed of the drops ideally you would want them to start out falling with zero velocity. Having the nozzles widen a bit, like a trumpet, might help slow the water a bit.I wonder about the possibility of slowing the liquid by electrical or magnetic fields.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 08:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: soldar on March 17, 2019, 08:18:00 pmIs it possible ?

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 05:14:55 am
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 17, 2019, 08:20:53 pmWith the right lighting, you could make it flow up. Or atleast it could look that way.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/northerncircuitsinc/aquarius-a-water-manipulating-fountain-lamp

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 05:16:23 am
content: Quote from: Kasper on March 18, 2019, 05:14:55 amPOV is my next thing to play with, after finishing the build.Thank you

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 01:10:52 pm
content: Quote from: Albatroon on March 17, 2019, 04:01:19 pmHi again,Ok no problem, just look at the last couple lines:The rule is minimum v1 (applied voltage) and maximum v2 (discharge voltage)and of course a transistor that can handle v2 without being destroyed.

author: Albatroon
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2019, 09:20:01 pm
content: Quote from: MrAl on March 18, 2019, 01:10:52 pmOkayThank you