<SIGH>... My new Frequency Counter arrived damaged..... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2012, 11:21:45 pm
content: Ordered a Victor VC3165 off Ebay for what appeared to be a good price, shipping was not bad either.Box arrived today, clean, undamaged, but when I pulled the device out, I could hear and feel a thud...thud...thud.. A quick check of the back panel and I saw that the 110/220 switch was missing. 4 screws later I was staring at the transformer that had torn loose in shipping. No apparent damage to the boards but the primary on the transformer is open so there is no quick fix. I'm waiting for a reply from the seller but after reading the sales fine print, it appears I need an RMA number and will have to ship it back for replacement. It appears my cheap deal is not going to be so cheap after all... Shipping a box to China from Canada is NOT CHEAP....<sigh>.RegardsChristian

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2012, 11:44:05 pm
content: I guess that's the risk you take when you buy one of these POS Chinese test instruments on ebay. I was actually looking at buying one of those (fortunately I didn't), decided to go with the Unisource FC-8300 instead, and then realized that my Rigol DSA815 has a built in 1.5GHz frequency counter with 1Hz resolution... beauty.In all honesty, cheap counters are basically just a 8-bit microcontroller and some input protection and a display. You can likely build one yourself and just use the enclosure/display of the broken one you received. I wouldn't hold much hope for getting a refund.

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 12:32:15 am
content: It really is unfortunate this has happened to your VC3165, i got one from ebay a year or so ago and cant fault it. It's a nice unit, it does tend to come with asian markings on the panel, these are easy to relabel tho.Regards

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 12:36:00 am
content: Bad luck about the damage.I assume your talking about a 50-60hz transformer.I would check your transformer again.A winding on a transformer is not likely to go open from a mechanical shock, has it torn the wire away?It might be some of the other input wiring.Even if the transformer was stuffed, you could probably get some similar relacement more easily.How many secondarary windings?

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 01:07:00 am
content: Well, I've put it back together for now.... I guessed at a shipping weight of 2kg and checking the Post Office website, it appears I *might* be able to ship it back as a "small packet" max 2kg which costs around $20 but has a shipping time of aprox. 4 to 6 weeks. Anything else starts at $50 and rapidly goes upward from there... If I'm stuck paying $50 or more... I'll be attempting a fix and or junking it. If I can ship it back for $20....... well, I'm in no hurry for this item, it was a spur of the moment purchase.I paid $58 for the unit and $27.95 for shipping... $50 to return it, or simply ordering another one if I can't fix the one I have would seem to be the most logical way to go about things. Even ordering a new one would only cost me ~$35 more than sending the broken one back... and if I keep the broken one, I'll have spare parts in case the next one arrives damaged some how....Do I need one? Well, I'm an amateur radio operator (ham) who has been off the air for about 10 years now, but the itch is back to build some radios and in this type of work, a frequency counter would come in handy.As for the transformer... the 110 winding is wide open, but I have not removed the transformer to check the actual wires.. With all that rolling around, it's quite possible that the break is inside the insulated wire. There are no points on the transformer itself to check continuity of that winding. Markings on the transformer are in Chinese characters only, I suppose I could ask my Chinese friend to read them for me. I'd have to guess at the actual amperage... All I see marked is that it is 110/220 and 9V out.Off to find a ruler to measure the box and a scale to weigh it....RegardsKaptain "Win some.... Loose some" Zero

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 01:42:47 am
content: It probably would be cheaper buying a new transformer as long as the rest works.There is a pretty good look at the internals onhttp://electronicsjunk.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55:victor-vc3165-frequency-counter&catid=34:electronics&Itemid=59The processor is an AT98C4051 - a modern implementation of the Intel 8051 processor.It is likely the whole counter is run from a 5V regulator, and if that is the case, as long as the transformer has a single winding that can provide at least 8V AC, it should work. Is the regulator on a heatsink? The heat of the regulator will set the maximum AC voltage.It probably uses less then 200mA + whatever the display needs. The display may use up to 0.5A, depending on how hard they drive the segments.If you disconnect the transformer, and feed 9V DC in instead, the counter will hopefully work.Richard

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 02:44:02 am
content: Can't you file a claim with eBay? I've done it before and gotten prompt FULL refunds.In fact, I recently got a battery on eBay, from China. I reported the damage, they refunded my money, and didn't even want the damaged battery back. Granted, your equipment has more value than my battery, but it's worth at least filing the claim.

author: xquercus
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 04:01:45 am
content: QuoteThis is my first thought. I've been fortunate enough to not have to deal with eBay and PayPal protection but I've "heard some stories" that they have some fairly strict (and odd) policies. See if there is a way you can resolve this issue through one of these mechanisms before forking out tons of dough on the return.QuoteI'm a radio amateur as well and enjoy building my own gear. I've never had a dedicated lab style frequency counter and have instead used everything from one of my commercial receivers, an inexpensive microcontroller based frequency counter built from a kit, multimeter, an oscilloscope, and even stations on the air on known frequencies -- WWV is invaluable. A dedicated counter would be a nice addition, though.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 05:29:44 am
content: Before doing the official ebay claim thing. See if it will power up, if it will send the seller a request for a replacement part(s), also say that you would prefer to not open a claim but may have to because of the deadline. It's a mild threat and I have found it very effective. Most China sellers hate official claims. If your lucky they will just open another unit and swipe the parts you need out of it. That is definitely what has happened to me. I had an IRDA Welder with a short (last summer) and sent the guy a picture of the problem. You could tell he just grabbed a soldering iron and removed a good board and sent it. He didn't even solder suck the holes or ask for the bad board back. Worked out great.I hear that if you threaten with a bad rating that the seller can ask ebay to have the rating removed. I avoid that one.You can't be super nice but not bad either. Remember they have the emails so don't put anything in there you don't want shown to ebay....mike

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 05:58:21 am
content: Quoteif its me. i will make the claim if i've asked the seller for more safer courier such as UPS/DHL/Fedex and then they insisted on cheaper mailing (esp untrackable). this is a real risk if one is really tight on shipping budget, esp heavy item like this. if you are a seller and then buyer keep insisting on cheaper shipping what will you do? or you dont make much sale by offering more safer but expensive courier? sending it risking damage and refunding the money, you'll be at lost. as of OP's problem.. if its me, i will choose to self repair it, as usually sending back the item can easily cost me at least half the item price. try to figure out what type of transformer or PSU setup the device uses, and then try to provide it. its really unfortunate and frustrating to have a problem like this, thats why shipping cost is a part of my budget when buying such item, in other word, i'd prefer a working item at double the price rather than a broken item at one time (half) the price. btw, infact hongkong or china express fully trackable courier is not that expensive at all, thats the beauty of their service.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 05:30:52 pm
content: Do you have any evidence that the expensive couriers are more careful with packages? Both the USPS and couriers like UPS and FedEx are use conveyers that drop packages from a significant height, and their employees will sometimes drop and throw packages. I'm not sure if tracking would make any difference either, since this package did not get lost.This sounds like bad packaging to me. Packaging should be designed to absorb shocks so the contents survive those inevitable drops.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 06:10:40 pm
content: I would say packaging is a big issue but it's also a design issue. If you look at the transformer in this it was simply screwed into the plastic case. If they used a nut and bolt with washers I can't see it breaking off. Another solution would be to put a brace (a bit of sponge) on top of the transformer so that it was held between the top and bottom of the case.I have a few Chinese test instruments including this one from a few years ago. Before I turn it on I will open it up. Check the electrolytics (replace if they look really crappy or broken off ). Check the screws and connectors. A little hot glue / silicon, zip ties and I feel much better.I was looking at the PCB and it has a 7805 series regulator so you can power that thing from a wall wart. It's got a heat sink on it 1 amp max and make sure you have 4 volts or so above the regulators expected output voltage. A 7805 would be 9 volts but you could go higher just make sure your electrolytics can handle the power (12 volts 1 amp would be fine). Mine is from a few years ago so check the regulator and don't take my word for it. Classic through hole construction, very repairable, I like that.The carriers (be it courier or regular post) are fairly even in my mind. Good packaging is well worth it for the receiver and seller. Read the comments on ebay and you will find good packaging there all the time buy from that guy (pay the extra 3 bucks). That is one of the things that defines a good seller. I don't know how this was packaged but if the plastic case was not cracked then I say the transformer was incorrectly mounted and that is the manufacturers fault....mike

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 06:35:40 pm
content: It is a simple 9VAC transformer. Common enough, and probably free if you look around the recycling yard for an old clock radio which will have one in it that will fit the screw mounts, and which will have 2 secondaries to choose from.

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2012, 08:26:25 pm
content: Got an email back from the seller who was fine with my going ahead to check it out and see if I can get it working. If I needed a new transformer or other parts, they would be happy to send me them. And if it turns out it dead beyond my repair skills, they would be happy to replace it. Shipping cost for a return still makes this rather unpalatable though, but perhaps a few photos of the innards might help avoid that.Looks like I'll be doing some testing/repair work this weekend. I have a friend who retired from electronics repair and he figures he has what I might need.Mike hit the nail on the head, the transformer was only held in place with 2 screws and when the package dropped, the mounting ears on the transformer simply twisted and allowed the heads of the screws to pull through. The simplest way to avoid that problem would have been the suggested piece of dense foam to brace it to the other case half. In this case, even a proper double boxing would not have avoided the damage and the box I received looked pristine, so it must have landed perfectly flat on a clean surface.Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll update the thread with what I find out.RegardsChristian

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2012, 12:39:59 am
content: As long as nothing else has been hit by the transformer you should be OK, it should be a simple fix (in theory). It's a pretty big case so it should be quite easy to fit another transformer, even if it's just a temporary one.Good luck to you....mike

author: siliconmix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2012, 08:17:00 am
content: Quote from: PeterG on May 10, 2012, 12:32:15 ami have a victor 6243+ and i have to say it really supprised me thumbs for victor in my experience.i just got to remember it doesn't measure voltage.

author: pcbprototype
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 11, 2012, 01:18:54 pm
content: have you contacted with the seller? even it was sold from China I think it still has a chance to claim refund from seller or ask replacement. nice to have a try!

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2012, 12:50:43 am
content: Update. I got a &^*^$#)&@ cold!Well, sick or not, I had to get around to looking at the silly thing, so I straightened out the mounting tabs on the transformer and screwed it back down before it broke something else. Checked the wires again and using one of my Fluke 87 Vs instead of the old Beckman DMM, I got readings on both primary circuits of the transformer and thus declared it *working*. (Beckman is not auto ranging and I was using the 200 ohm scale, the one primary was over 300 ohm according to my Fluke 87 V so the Beckman would have read that as an open circuit! Duh!)Next I re-assembled the pulled apart 110/220V selector and successfully put the selector button in the wrong way around <sigh>.... working with a fuzzy head and time constraints usually leads to such errors!No matter, I'm the only one using it and the seller had indicated he/she would ship any repair parts I needed, so I guess I'll get a replacement switch as I don't want to bend those tabs twice more, just to switch the button around. I could swap the wires around but meh..... if I can get a new switch, that's the way to do it.After checking all the other stuff, I plugged it in and she came to life. A quick check with the Fluke confirmed I DID have that110/220V button the wrong way around.So there you have it (sorry, I didn't take the time to take awful pictures.... I need to clean the bench first!), a bad start but a good finish.I'm happy in the end, I got the unit for a good price and inadvertently, I got a little troubleshooting project to boot, which was a bonus.... sort of..... I guess....RegardsChristian