Americans DON'T RESPECT SCIENCE, (When it's inconvenient) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2022, 09:19:13 am
content: Yeah, blame the 'Potheads'...again!Newspaper saying "New Studies Show...blah,blah blah.". Problem is, right then they add: "...ALL drug useis down, now, due to COVID CRISIS..."Have 'Scientists' lost their minds ?Saying that things like " (The Medical POT crowd):"They only THINK they feel relief...""We have to re-think on the 'Marijuana' thing...Oh, please, somebody stab me with a fork..NO: A SPOON...that makes more sense, in today's world.Medical and Social BLUNDERS ? Yeah, us POTHEADS, have seen it all.America has a DRUG / ALCHOHOL problem, not being faced. It's the science, sorry.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2022, 05:49:55 pm
content: Here is some more rant, about SCIENCE attitudes; Any reader's (personal) beliefs are to be respected, hopefully, as this post is more concerned with methods, Methods and 'willfull' ignorance.Willfull ignorance, and HYPOCRACY, almost missed that one.Take a look, at that 'Headline', local news:That 'sensational' report, detailing 'CRIME', including a 'car chase', on nearby freeway...That's sort of reporting, has been called 'Tabloid Porn', by other Cannabis activists. (One, a practicing Psychiatrist nearby, another, a Bio-Tech researcher, so there is some smarts, there.)The 'porn' aspect comes in, with the MONEY, I mean look at all that (the article even featured a photo, of some big suitcase full of cash. Full of cash; Yeah, that's porn.And the Racial thing, is over the top;. Folks STILL saying '(Dispensaries) have to be in the poor / ethnic areas of town'!Now that's just old, old racism at work. Notice I've left plenty of room for those that disagree. Many people do not like or support Medical POT, that's not in question. I'm just laying out criticism, for the SCIENCE, that's gonna be how things work the smoothest, while not totally solving.We see, we disagree, often, and then discussion, negotiate. There's room.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 07:42:24 am
content: I am not sure what is your point there? Aren't you based in California, where medical use of cannabis has been legal for decades, and even recreational use has been legalized a few years ago?How would a study which shows that drug use is down in Covid times (as mentioned in your first post) imply any pushback on legalized use of cannabis?! Heck, beer consumption in Germany has been down under Covid; it's reported in the news, but nobody suggests that this implies beer should be outlawed. And how would a newspaper report on obviouslyillicittrafficking of drugs and cash (as cited in your second post) be implying that thelegaluse policy should be changed?Sorry, but you are not making sense here. Maybe go a bit easier on the pot?

author: palpurul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 07:55:25 am
content: I think science has always been under the influence of politics and economics. Especially social sciences are heavily under the influence of politics.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 09:24:51 am
content: Ummm... What?

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 10:21:01 am
content: Quote from: palpurul on March 27, 2022, 07:55:25 amIndeed. The names of Socrates and Galileo Galilei come to mind.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 03:13:11 pm
content: According to our goverbent cannabis has no medical benefits,unless of course your partner is involved in the medical cannabis industry

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 04:26:41 pm
content: I get LOTS of comments, from friends nearby, that my rapid delivered narratives are too raw and incomplete.I perceive a trade-off, because folks tend to tune out, for a (properly) long winded dialogue (like now, lol).As to California's Prop 215, 1996, the intent was for Medical Use access. Access, to affordable and safe marketplace. (That's what I'm addressing).A medium-heavy medical use could be a severe case of MS, an excellent example. A person in San Francisco, for example, is going to spend, CASH, approximately $13 to $25 per day, and that's leaving out a bunch of peripheral factors.Folks reading this, have to catch-themselves:How many of us, hearing the numbers, start thinking,"...that's gross...she needs to go in rehab, spending THAT kind of money...reckless...".See my point? The high market value, some would argue is a sensation in itself. Meaning, for my unfortunate female friend having serious MS symptoms, her situation is pre-defined as 'obscene' almost. Yet, she didn't make the California market.Continuing on my point, about affordability problems,note that a seriously ill person hasn't the income power, and forget any insurance involvement, there.It's treated like a medicine alternative. I've heard the term 'Street Drug', bandied about, by doctors.That's hypocracy big time.Oh, and as for retirement systems, a Cannabis utilizer pays that, for others;In city of Hayward, Ca. a $20 total bill becomes $30, after various 'extra' local excise taxes. I'm not sure what the real tax rate percentage is.You get to pay retirement, for all California state employees, yet you aren't in the public employee system.So, point is, for medical relief, the express stated purpose, of 1996 Prop 215, the goals are only partially met. A patient owning property can, privately, grow some of their own, and now have reasonable legal standing, avoiding property seizures.A working person situation not so bad, for recreation aspects.My friend, with MS pretty serious is only partially aided by the legal climate, as the market value is very high.As for current illicit DRUG USE... I'm reading about OPYOID and Fentynal (sic) use thru the roof.Are you kidding ?57,000 dead this year, from illicit fentynal.,..Thanks, and sorry I'm not skilled at clear writing.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 06:08:12 pm
content: Hope some of previous explanation helps: point being that, regardless of reader's belief, pro or con on medical pot, that SCIENCE methodology is going to be a valid portion of any argument.I'm seeing a kind of retro-revisionist trend, to re-examine the whole 'alternates' thing, as there hasn't been, widely, the FDA double-blind testing usually used.There's movement afoot, for increased scrutiny on tobacco products 'smoke', penetrating through apartment walls, etc. causing children to 'consume' the tobacco based, or VAPE smoke products from breathing in any lingering 'chemicals'.That all sounds good, but, again I go back to my friend, Cindy, (in a private residence). Will she be told: "Your smoke is traveling across...to next house over, and therefore (cease and desist).Maybe, just a crazy California thing, (no one wants to expose children to second-hand smoke, surely).But it gets, maybe, into that puritan thing...I DID, check on my spelling:'Opioid', is the correct spelling,and 'Fentanyl' is other word, (tough to spell!).I'm not an economist, but seems like artificial high prices, and leading to illicit non-sanctioned transactions, it's only natural, that an illicit black-market would attract players, thereAnd, with all the troubles, missed taxes, sales and production outside of any agency supervision, I'm guessing folks will just say 'forget it, we need to go back to FDA approved, only.Reading about Fentanyl overdose crisis, the reports are, that strength is some 100X stronger than regular heroin, with many new overdose deaths, THIS YEAR.My point being:. Those other news statements, saying that 'substance use down, now'...that's not science.Science is saying 'use is down, EXCEPT FOR opioids and fentanyl overdose 'deaths', which are, to quote one doctor, "A crises".(Much of the smuggling occuring, where ?)

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 06:15:42 pm
content: I'm not really sure what this thread is even about, the posts are long winded and anything but concise and to the point. I don't know about down there but here in WA there are cannabis stores everywhere and the stuff is easy to find and not particularly expensive. What does any of this have to do with engineering though?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 06:29:27 pm
content: Yeah, it sounds like a mix of rants, so not clear what part the OP really is bothered about.As palpurul said, don't trust politics to do a "fair use" of science anyway. It has almost never done so, and probably never will.When politics invokes science, it's very often to twist it towards a predefined goal. Which is definitely not a scientific approach. And just because it pretends to rely on published papers and so-called "experts" doesn't change a thing.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 06:34:57 pm
content: Yes thanks, but you helped make my point:The short, hurried discussion got some 'incoherent' base points out, fast. Not too good.The long-winded more carefully worded discussion got dismissed, as being, uh, long-winded. Possibly at some point, early, in the verbage.Hopefully, though, my choice of 'Dodgy' subject have warning, I need to improve clarity, while keeping bulk of text down...(whew).But I do notice, picture of a CAT, is maybe even less an Engineering Subject.I'm just saying that media reports of "drugs / alcohol use down, during COVID"...That's doesn't jive, scientifically, with current OPIOID crises reports.Which media reporting is correct, then ?

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 06:56:09 pm
content: To repeat main point, of posting:Medical access is not affordable, although there are some situations improved.That Science would be applied economics, for starters. The market is weird, has all sorts of unscientific process. Like, for example, medicine is not, conventionally been taxed. Until now.Oh, BTW, my mistake, the Hayward city tax 'supplement' is to add $10, to a $30 bill (not 20).Seattle prices, slightly better, at ONLY $40, for 3 'cigarettes' (that's 3.5 grams, or 1/8th oz).If you are healthy/ working person, not bad.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 07:00:30 pm
content: Quote from: RJHayward on March 27, 2022, 06:34:57 pmBasically none.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 07:42:07 pm
content: Here is some Google search results, regarding Science applied to FDA type approval process:Searched on: 'New Medical Marijuana Research'One report, March 18, 2022, in Science Daily:"...cannabis...failed to improve these symptoms...","...while doubling the risk of..."They started discussing 'Cannabis Use Disorder'.That, right there, conjures up some administration questions, again regarding SCIENCE methods.What's the process, of introducing a 'NEW' disorder ?Can I, governor of Nebraska, declare:"EEVBLOG over-dependence Syndrome..."...(?)Uh, that's 'EEOS'. But, seriously, now I'm curious, how that whole medical terminology gets formally, (and legally!) decided and published.Is there a medical deciding body, within government, perhaps FDA has jurisdiction over medical disorder tracking ?Some good news, uncovered in that simple search, apparently there was a Cannabinoid chemical helping reduce seizures, in mice studied. Things like that help give more hope, in medical advancement in general.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 09:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: RJHayward on March 27, 2022, 07:42:07 pm"Cannabis Use Disorder" was defined as a disease in the 2013 edition of theDiagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Edition 5:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_use_disorder. (The definition does, of course, not consider any use of cannabis a disorder, but only addictive use which is accompanied by clinically significant impairment.)The Board of Trustees of the American Psychiatric Association publishes and oversees this manual:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_DisordersThe process is not beyond criticism, but certainly not ad hoc as you implied in you post.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 09:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on March 27, 2022, 09:22:18 pmIt's worth pointing out that the DSM is updated as new knowledge is acquired, and it's not unheard of for the occasional about-face to happen. Not saying that will or won't happen on any particular subject, just that it can.As I frequently have had to point out during the covid situation, when people complain about changing advice; as knowledge increases, advice changes to adapt.

author: Jeff eelcr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 12:40:57 am
content: One thing that has improved is the quality (strength) of the pot way higher THC levels than when I was a kid 60-70's.Not requiring all to be smoked either although much may be anyway.Jeff

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 02:16:28 am
content: In the 1980's that whole wave, of refinement, was largely done in basic Farm-Tech, adapted of course.The 'HID' lights innovations, indoors, didn't happen until slightly later, around 1989.As the underground 'industry' took hold, THC purity was going up, (makes sense), and the 'simsimillia' (sic)craze took over: transforming a dirty, gritty smuggled product, to a cleaner, dense and very very strong.Prices skyrocketed, in that danger ridden sector, as demand was high, and supplies squeezed.Drug war, federally, raged, only adding to the crazed economic 'science' factors. A small-time grower faced loss of home / property (search on asset forfeiture, 1994).But there is yet another 'factual trap', set up by this narrative, that is; that while cannabis flower 'potency' soared, STILL that's far far short of the so-called 'HASH' or hashish; and plus an even stronger derivative; which is Hash Oil; a black, sticky goo, smoked by way of heated spoon.Many of us rejected the process-refined solids or oils, preferring the conventional, green bud. Many of us adjusted, to the strength, by cutting back on quantity, a basic dynamic that many Doctors noticed, (less particles, from less actual smoking).Prices rose, I guesstimate, from $10 to $20 went up towards as much as $90, for 1/8 the portion.Now that sounds pretty ridiculous, but I'm thinking 1972 thru 1994, and that's a factor of (upwards of)72 X price increase, over 22 years.Somebody prove that wrong, as even I, am increduled by that multiple.This is why, I keep returning to the topic, here, when I say 'Science isn't always followed...' and add that 'Longer term Cannabis users often have well developed B.S. detectors, after so many years of 'funny math'...(Another Science).Like I've said, this thread is not for judging the Reader'sopinions on the social/politics, but rather just laying out for ALL to examine, discuss. There's plenty of room.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 05:44:41 pm
content: Facts comparing is, usually, considered a 'valid' or even crucial aspect, of any science...almost by definition. Of course that process, itself, can be reckless, careful, or...contrived.One clever Medical Dispensary Operator, 'Bob', would often tell employees:"Watch what you're doing...be careful, treat that 'LIKE IT IS GOLD', because, guess what:It's price, is HIGHER than gold, by weight."OK, (1995), 'Boutique' prices make a green 'nug', size smaller than your thumb, more value than gold.NO, that's not 'Boutique', that's drug war; Warfare price 'structure'.Science, (instinct partially), tells me: Something's wrong, with your economic numbers, if extracting gold metal, plus refining, is ever going to be exceeded, by, effectively, a 'head of lettuce'.Today, obviously, that 'Boutique price' argument is moot, right? (That assumption, sigh, is another junk science / ignorance).Oh...wait... $90 for a really really potent 'gram' ?I heard that price, yesterday, (3/28/2022).GOLD, today, (US $65 per gram).And, yes, that's top end, but seems really disproportionate, somehow. Regulations, and security concerns drive prices up, but any reasonable person is going perceive a real, bad 'warp' of marketplace dynamics.Ok, let's try a better example; a 'cheap' $20 discounted sale, 'only' $ 20 per 1/8oz (3.5 g).That's around $6 per gram. Pretty good...now the market dynamic has lowered disabled / patient cost, to around $ 6 to 8 dollars PER 'CIGARETTE'. ('joint' in street lingo).That's in Hayward, Can by the way, one of the older, more mature marketplace.You don't need to agree, on the 'Safe Access' concept, but at least I'm able to easily find things like the above, for valid argument;American systems too easily SKIP SCIENCE, from time to time.Drug War skews any 'facts', 'data', as needed...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 05:50:48 pm
content: Quote from: AVGresponding on March 27, 2022, 09:38:28 pmA large part of the "DSM" would perfectly fit in a "dodgy tech" (or "dodgy science") section.Heck, a large part of psychiatry itself is dodgy science.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 08:05:51 am
content: I'm not entirely sure if that was your intent, but this thread is not making a strong case in favor of drugs and drug users

author: cgroen
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 08:27:22 am
content: For a (very) short while I was afraid that I somehow had a lot of disconnected neurons in my brain as I didn't understand anything in this thread...Now I'm more relaxed

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 03:18:22 pm
content: Lol,...THOSE were just...HARMLESS GAFFs...NOW, Can you please hand me the keys, to our School Bus...Seriously, there IS a brand, out here Cali:. It's called 'TRAINWRECK' because had a sense of humor, but there really was a Train Wreck incident, where the uh, train operator got, uhh, BORED, while driving a (multi-multi-tonned freight train. And...WHAM..."There are those that should NEVER use it..."Dr. Todd Mikurea (R.I.P.)

author: Scherms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 09:42:16 pm
content: U.S.A. now means 'User Self Aware'..!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 10:14:31 pm
content: So, can you define what a woman is these days? Judge Jackson apparently can't.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 10:15:14 pm
content: More examples came up, yesterday. Point being, regardless of (reader's) opinion, yea or nea, the SCIENCE method gets abused, and often needs to be pointed out:Last night, some US federal law change being proposed. Commentary ran to the effect of: " We already have a giant OPIOID ABUSE problem, so why loosen up on our drug laws?Uhhh, I get it, "ALL DRUGS SAME", right.Been this way for years. All chemical substances SAME... Try saying "Silicon / Germanium / Carbon...they are all the same, for making innovative ICs.All the same...now we don't even need experts, or chemists. Everything is simplified. No need, for that Phd, in Chemistry.We have, Meth epidemic, Opioid epidemic, Alcohol epidemic. Why, then, would anyone suggest any medicine be used.One way all drugs are different, is the rampant violence and overdose histories, differentiated by 'type'. I've personally witnessed a fellow start carrying a 3 inch diameter, 3 foot long (1 meter), metal PIPE, on his shoulder. That was a meth user, (that kind of thing is well known in emergency rooms.I guess that (faulty) argument had a name, in intellectual circles. "All xxxxxx are the same".'Substitution Neurosis' or some such term...

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 07:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 01, 2022, 10:14:31 pmI remain hopeful that some day some sanity will return the the world and we can return to defining a woman as someone with XX chromosomes. If somebody wants to dress up/live as the other gender good for them, doesn't bother me any, but it's delusional to think that makes them literally the gender of their choosing.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 07:50:06 pm
content: Quote from: magic on March 30, 2022, 08:05:51 amI would be willing to bet that the majority of people on this forum are drug users. I certainly have been known to consume alcohol now and then. I consume caffeine most days to help me wake up in the morning too.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 08:16:40 pm
content: Yes, all true, BUT, ALSO not a very 'together' case, for LYME Disease...There is ample mention, 'Mental Fog', problems with 'Joints'...Then there is the Cardiac Health problems, associated with 'Chronic' Lyme...But I'm getting distracted, here discussing medical stuff (I'm OK with privacy, as I've been on a couple Nationally televised public media).Point is, medical benefits of the Cannabis outweigh some of the down-sides.How come 'no one' wants to take on the METH comments, placed here ?But, I don't want to make this a 'My bad, You bad' game,or play with responding to every last detail.The SCIENCE, around the issue, gets pushed to the side,...not needed. It's easy to 'react', (that's called 'knee jerk'), but I appreciate every response, every view point, here !OK..., Let's get some METH user jokes.Oh, and PUT ME in a comprehensive MENTAL INCOMPETENCE TEST...toe-to-toe, with Joe.I'm confident, enough to hang loose, on all these imperfections.SCIENCE RULES. (eventually, sigh...)Rick

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 11:56:12 pm
content: Uh, yeah, but that's solid logic, seems to be met with, the worst slander, smear job, and...even race-baiting fools, who looking for a fight, probably take the question, of how to define 'woman', in physical world, and turn THAT into 'your' 'bigotry' problem.I've been avoiding the comments, (like this), as I've noticed; some 'Covid' related rants get locked. So I'm actually eager to avoid disturbing the smooth flow of business, more central to the EEVblog. In spite of a whole lot of potential 'rant'. Just not eager to mess up a good thing (ability to read and learn, here).Let's all meet, in Hawaii, say, 2025, for a Conference !THEN, we can have all kinda talk.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 06:36:36 am
content: Quote from: james_s on April 02, 2022, 07:50:06 pmI have consumed alcohol a few times and found that I'm insane enough that it makes no difference on me, other than the usual motor impairment. Don't bother with it anymore