Caterpillar S60 - smartphone with integrated thermal camera - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 09:39:45 am
content: Caterpillar has released the first phone with integrated thermal camera (Flir Lepton):CAT S60Strengthened Die Cast FrameDrop proof to 1.8m, MIL Spec 810GWaterproof to depths of up to 5 meters for one hourSuper bright display (typical 540 nits), Gorilla Glass 44.7” HD (1280 x 720) capacitive multi-touch with auto wet finger & glove supportOptimised battery performance (3800mAh)High quality audio experience (>105dB)Underwater 13MP main camera with dual flash, 5MP front-facing camera4G LTESnapdragon 617 octa-core processor32GB ROM, 3GB RAMAndroid™ MarshmallowDedicated FLIR thermal camera app with MSX technology; still image, panorama, and video capture; changeable heat palettes; temperature spot meter; and min, max, and average temperature dataIt will be available later this year for $599 (649€; £500).Currently there is no info about Lepton version (or resolution)...Press release:http://www.catphones.com/en-gb/news/press-releases/cat-s60-announced-as-worlds-first-smartphone-with-integrated-thermal-cameraSources:http://gizmodo.com/caterpillars-new-s60-is-the-first-smartphone-with-flir-1759685817http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2447327/cat-s60-is-the-worlds-first-thermal-imaging-smartphonehttp://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11032288/cat-s60-flir-thermal-camera-android-smartphonehttp://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/cat-s60-thermal-camera-smartphone/But if we can believe the images it has at least 1024x768 thermal resolution.Big images:https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/hgkmsq2csijahsaeebem.jpghttps://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ilekxevne9nby2lrawvx.jpghttps://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/fqz7olmmcym9llhxpqw0.jpghttps://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/i7ebwz6pdsxa8opcexow.jpgReal life photo:It's hard to say if its Lepton 2 or 3.

author: schlafli
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 10:13:45 am
content: I may have just found my next phone!

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 10:34:40 am
content: Yep, those look like T1020 sample images

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 10:41:20 am
content: Also I wonder what the quality of the MSX on this is. Since it's using a relatively high end 13 megapixel smartphone camera for the MSX instead of the usual FLIR crappy 640x480 camera, I expect this to deliver relatively sharp MSX outlines, especially combined with the LED flash.

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 10:57:46 am
content: Quote from: encryptededdy on February 18, 2016, 10:34:40 amYou're right. They used cropped version of this T1020 image:

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 11:28:25 am
content: Engadget has a gallery of photos:http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/18/cat-s60-thermal-camera-smartphone/#gallery=366061&slide=3801975

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 11:36:28 am
content: Paint me definitely interested. Question is how it will preform outside the marketing bubble.

author: OrBy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 02:52:58 pm
content: If you look at all the images of the phone only the pics from theinquirer.net seem to show a phone with a real functioning thermal camera - the rest look like the plugged the upper hole with a second normal camera.I wish companies would be fined for putting unrealistic pictures. I am fine with them have the wrong camera in the product shots but the quality of the thermal images is just a "little" misleading.

author: schlafli
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 05:43:54 pm
content: It looks like the phone may have 2 dedicated shutter buttons. One for thermal, one for visual.According to this caption & image, the phone is dual-sim:http://www.computerbild.de/fotos/cb-News-Handy-15108957.html#7I guess we'll find out more next week at MWC.

author: -jeffB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 07:34:12 pm
content: I wonder what kind of protective layer they'll have over the thermal lens? The SeeK has a pretty deeply recessed lens, and of course the E4 has it protected even better. The marketing shot seems to show a cover that's flush with the surface of the phone; even if I carried it in a holster at all times, I'd expect that cover to get scratched up really quickly.

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 07:38:04 pm
content: Perhaps that cover acts like a shutter?When you flip the switch to activate thermal camera, the cover moves away?It looks quite similar to Flir One v2:

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 11:22:00 pm
content: The thermal lens on this Engadget photo seems suspiciously small - I'm pretty sure both FLIR lepton modules have larger lenses.However, frenky's photo shows the usual IR window over the lepton that the FLIR One (and most other lepton cameras) have.So I wonder whether the Engadget photo is just of a mockup or if it is actually a mechanical cover like frenky suggests.Also I'm pretty disappointed with the quality of the MSX... the 13-megapixel smartphone camera is definitely capable of much higher quality MSX results - it looks like here they're downscaling to 640x480 or smaller before processing the MSX - perhaps it's a processing power limitation?

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2016, 11:29:49 pm
content: Also the FLIR C2 comes in at $699... doesn't this basically kill the C2?Even if it's still a 80x60 lepton (unlikely, it's probably 160x120), the Cat S60 still offers a much better visual camera, expandable storage via. MicroSD and a nice HD LCD screen (instead of that pretty crappy 320x240 screen on the C2).Not to mention you also get a phone.

author: OrBy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 05:05:31 am
content: Quote from: encryptededdy on February 18, 2016, 11:29:49 pmAgreed on all counts!

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 09:36:23 am
content: Quote from: encryptededdy on February 18, 2016, 11:22:00 pmThis is a fake preproduction image.The Flir sensor is covered with an IR filtersee

author: MYU
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 02:51:30 pm
content: Info about cat S60 from Flir on facebook:Quote

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 06:07:19 pm
content: Finally, a phone I can get for my sister she can't break.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 06:07:37 pm
content: I have previously stated that the LEPTON 2 is not due to be discontinued. I am surprised, however, to hear that this unit and the C2 are equipped with it rather than the more impressive LEPTON 3. I would have thought FLIR would want to make a big 'splash' with their new releases.How long before we see a Fluke 87 like multimeter equipped with visible light and LEPTON camera I wonder ? Then there is the budget drone thermal imaging market to tap into. If FLIR play this right they could dominate the budget thermal imaging marketplace with OEM's mounting their LEPTONS in all manner of hosts. Phone today, then tablets, followed by laptop webcam style external cameras ? FLIR also do a visible light security camera. Expect to see a LEPTON based budget thermal security camera soon.Fraser

author: OrBy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 07:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 19, 2016, 06:07:37 pmToo late - check out the FLIR TCX line.http://www.flir.ca/security/content/?id=67949

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2016, 08:07:50 pm
content: Anhh they released it earlier than I had expected. InterestingFraser

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 08:09:23 am
content: Quote from: OrBy on February 19, 2016, 07:53:42 pmWhy the hell is it 80 x 45? Did they really have to crop a 80x60 image to 16:9 widescreen?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 01:26:40 pm
content: Agreed. The world of monitors and cameras seems fixated on 16:9 format these daysHaving the option of 4:3 or 16:9 in a menu would be a better idea.Fraser

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2016, 01:59:31 pm
content: I don't care what their argument is ... if there are 80x60 pixels on the sensor, I want them ALL.Software options can sort out what happens on the display.

author: schlafli
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2016, 07:32:18 pm
content: Found a hands-on look from MWC:http://gizmodo.com/cat-s60-hands-on-the-phone-that-lets-you-see-like-pred-1760419995Update:and another:http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/21/11082732/cat-s60-flir-worlds-first-phone-thermal-cameraNo new info, just some pictures and gifs of a working device.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 05:33:46 am
content: woah... I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier.There's now a temperature span bar/indicator on the right (which is something that the FLIR One really needs).

author: efahrenholz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2016, 08:42:36 am
content: It's a neat device but I'd definitely have to pass. I highly doubt they will sell many of these. Lots of contractors already have a phone. They have rugged cases like an otterbox. The market is already flooded with the Seek and Flir One. You could buy two imagers for the price of one of these phones. It's a good sign of things to come and I'd love it if Flir would partner with the likes of Samsung or LG to produce a real phone, not some construction savvy tool.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 10:42:58 am
content: The new modular bay of the LG G5 seems perfectly suited for a FLIR Lepton addon...

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 11:05:24 am
content: I totally agree.The only problem that I see with LG "Friends" is that current modules might not be compatible with future LG phones.(Because the width and thickness perfectly matches the G5 body.)

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 11:32:12 am
content: I don't foresee FLIR selling Lepton to LG G5, unless they are forced to. Lepton is meant to be disposable for the public, and so the phone must not have removeable battery.

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 11:59:28 am
content: From the Flir's perspective I don't see any difference between selling Lepton3 in Flir One V2 (as an attachement to the smartphone) as opposed to LG G5 "Friend" attachment.It would be the same thing just different connector. Similar to the first Flir One which was just for iPhone 5.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2016, 12:45:31 pm
content: I wish FLIR prove me wrong. I have been waiting to get another FLIR but is frustrated with all the cripplings FLIR done to its product line so to protect the huge turf they are having. F1G2, to me, was being forced upon them because of Seek. Having an add-on adapter is not the same as an integrated unit which is more robust and rugged. It cannot be a real tool. They need to protect the C2 market. I would have bought the C2 if it can have the latest sensor. Then again C2 cannot be made too good to protect another ...and another..

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 01:54:29 pm
content: S60 video:

author: FLIP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 06:05:01 am
content: i can see good things with this phone, would love to have a play with one.come in handy for field work on transmission sites/ remote deployment

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:04:16 pm
content: I may have missed it , but are these available ?I really did not want to bother with a new phone , but this could be an option to get a FLIR unit , especially if buying like other cell phones on a 2 yr. contract and minimal up front cost , at this time I could not afford to buy one of the other options .

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:06:56 pm
content: It is just such a pity that they used the LEPTON 2 in it, rather than the LEPTON 3.

author: alanpro123@hotmail.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 02:09:10 pm
content: Although a cool gadget. It will not provide the quality of the Thrrm-App. I find the fact that it’s a phone a disadvantage as you can’t pass it to other people and limited to a bulky phone.

author: Davecltl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 13, 2016, 01:09:38 am
content: I'm probably still going to buy one even though it doesn't have the lepton 3. The rugged phone + the convenience of always having a thermal camera on hand will be nice.

author: Trax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 07:49:52 am
content: Does anyone know the hackability of the Cat phones?So can they be easily rooted, is the bootloader locked or not?If the bootloader is unlocked, how is the spply in custom roms?Also is cat providing updates to the original rom when needed?

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 05:44:14 pm
content: Will the MSX be permanently enabled on this like it is with the official FLIR One app? Is this phone's thermal imaging hardware going to be based on the FLIR One, in such a way that a person can write their own FLIR One app using the SDK and have it actually work with the embedded thermal imaging camera in this smartphone?As for resolution, I've got a hunch that they are going to be 80x60, not 160x120. The reason for that is simple. Even though it implements a FLIR camera (as indicated by the FLIR logo on it), it is not itself a FLIR product. It is a Caterpillar product, and FLIR has not yet sold 160x120 Lepton chips to 3rd parties for integration in their products. FLIR has only been selling 80x60 Lepton chips to 3rd parties for integration in their products. Even FLIR itself has never used the 160x120 Lepton chip for anything other than the FLIR One. All other Lepton based products from FLIR have been using the 80x60 Lepton chip.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 08:01:24 pm
content: QuoteWrong, it is in the K2 'basic' fire camera. Yours for £1000.Quite how useful MSX will be in a fire is another question, but then again 160x120 done nicely is perfectly adequate anyway.The full specification shows it up as a bit lightweight though, and 'Designed to meet NFPA 1801' is simply a lie if it won't last 5 minutes at 260°C. Designed to fail more like.Bill

author: Ben321
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 08:47:48 pm
content: Quote from: Bill W on April 24, 2016, 08:01:24 pmIs the K2 forced to use MSX like the FLIR One? Or can you turn off the MSX on the K2?

author: Switching Power
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 10:36:16 am
content: The German electronics store Conrad has a datasheet for theCAT S60on its website.http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/1400000-1499999/001424877-da-01-en-CAT_S60_OUTDOOR_SMARTPHONE_SW.pdfThere the resolution of the thermal camera is specified as 80x60 so its the low resolution Lepton

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2016, 10:44:05 am
content: Yes, Flir probably didn't want to jeopardise the sales of Flir One.And this way there is also room for better specs in future Cat S70...

author: schlafli
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2016, 07:31:49 am
content: The Cat S60 is now up for preorder for £530.http://store.catphones.com/uk/p_cat_store_product.aspx?i=291100

author: Trax
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 06:30:45 pm
content: What I am mostly interested is is if you will be able to root the device and if it comes with a open boot loader.

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 04:05:17 am
content: Quote from: Trax on June 30, 2016, 06:30:45 pmI doubt it. I believe the CAT S50 had a locked bootloader so this probably will too. The only you could root the S50 seems to have been via. a exploit

author: quarros
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2016, 09:31:19 am
content: Did anyone on the forum bought it yet? If so than what are your opinion?I saw a lot of review that say it is good, but than also one where the review unit got busted (water damage).

author: e_sousa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2016, 12:52:52 pm
content: I bought mine last week and i am happy with it.The Thermal camera seems to do very well for what it is, the phone feels kinda big in your pocket and hands but the impressing battery life and ruggedness makes up for it IMO.Haven't given it a bath yet but with the IP rating and the in phone software options specific to submersing and the "too deep" warning it is supposed to give you when you go under 5m... I trust it will withstand most submersings you can throw at it.Maybe some previous abuse compromised that review unit's waterproofing?What worried more was if i could root it and im still not sure about it but in the developer options i found interesting settings related to bootloader unlocking.

author: Switching Power
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2016, 02:29:00 pm
content: I also have one and for a test i put mine in the kitchen sink and everything worked as expected.The review unit that got damaged under water was more a problem of the reviewer not closing the back cover properly.Feature wise i have two sim cards and a 256GB microSD in the phone, with little use the battery can last for 3 days.The thermal camera i mostly use at work to find faults in PCB's if the big flir camera is somewhere in the field.The combination with the visible camera works but is not optimal due to the close distance so the thermal and normal image do not lineup properly.