How to become a great expert in electronics? Best books? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ElectronicsGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 10:24:47 pm
content: Hi all,I love electronics a lot, and I have a bachelors in mathematics, currently doing a master's in microelectronics. We mostly do verilog system design, and integrated circuit design using cadence.What I want to know is. I am currently 30, and so I am a bit behind on the electronics expertise, compared to some of those who did a bachelors in electronics, even though I am doing my best to catch up.Electronics is such an extensive subject, it almost has no end, and SO MUCH has been done in the past 100 years that's almost unbelievable how much it has evolved.I want to know what is the best I can do to become very great at electronics and an expert at it? Is it reading books and doing experiments? Can I become an expert by studying the theory from books and applying it by experiments? Or do I have to get a job in the field?I think I'd like to be an academic and work inside a university, and teach, however I don't enjoy teaching, I would enjoy the research side.What is the best book I can read to become an expert in general analog electronics? That is, building amplifiers, building Op amps (yes I want to build them), and so on? Is it the Art of Electronics the best book? Or is it some undergraduate textbook that is the best? If so which one?I love chip design and thats the area I want to develop in and expert in. But before that I want to know almost all there is to know about general higher level electronics, that is, using the readymade components to build circuits.So What's the best to do, and what's the best electronics book to read?Thanks a lot!

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 10:44:20 pm
content: Why don't you ask "PauloConstantino",anothermember here. Who amazingly has identical background/location/age(+/-1) and other stuff.EDIT:Why not post under your normal account ?(Or I'm mistaken ?).

author: ElectronicsGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2017, 11:55:26 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on July 11, 2017, 10:44:20 pmPlease only post if it's related to the thread topic thanks.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 12:23:10 am
content: Wow, my block list sure seems to be growing a lot lately. What's going on?

author: tronde
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 01:03:05 am
content: I would rather try to find some good books about human interaction...

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 04:32:07 am
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 11, 2017, 10:24:47 pmI don't think people become "experts" becuase they want to. It's more they happen to have an aptitude for their field and excel in practicing it. I mostly find people who call themselves "experts" aren't, becuase true "experts" have the humility and insight to know there's still so much they don't know and so they describe themselves otherwise.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 04:43:47 am
content: People become "experts" at things they love. Look at the many people with degrees who don't really know "their" fields at all, and the real, self taught experts who have no degrees.Also, with brand new fields, "those who can do, do, those who can't - teach".

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 04:25:25 pm
content: Electronics like so many other skills is something you dont become expert just studying theory from books.You need also practice, aply theory into practical circuits. Learn from circuits designed by others, etc... Trouble shooting your own designs that docent work as expected, etc...More you study and more you do things with those skills, more you learn. And all this takes time... Expecially since electronics is quite wast field...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 04:57:34 pm
content: The need for "experts" may be perceived to be increasing but actually, its going down fast.This is why more and more people wanting to do things wont ever need an expert.Instead, their designs will use modular standardized components that embed a high level of "expert" functionality, at a cost of including functionality thats not needed, they will get the functionality that is needed for less which will come along for the ride. Its like suppose to order your meal or ask where the bathroom is you needed to buy either a $0.05 cheat sheet, a $0.50 print dictionary or a $2 pocket translator computer running on a chip that includes an wireless IP stack and web server because its cheaper than the switches and display, which would you get? If you picked the computer then whenenever in the future you have a question you simply point it at your API. You get the idea.For example, to automate a task you might not 'NEED" to use a $5 or $10 Raspberry Pi, a cheaper controller board based on an AVR that only used $2 in parts might do it better, in less code and use MUCH less power.But the engineer or advanced student who could design that might charge you $500 while the Linux scripting language and application written for it that you can see will already do the job is already available for free or if you want it in context, in a book that costs $5, plus then you will have a Raspberry Pi that you know will also be able to automate dozens of your other tasks in the near future.Similar dynamic will apply in other specialized disciplines. The number of applications that will require "experts" - IOW a high level of cutting edge functionality and optimization will shrink, while democratization of technology, people being able to set up their own factories and fabs to build things will grow.For some manufacturers, secrecy will be all important.They will keep their processes secret from other people, so there wont be anybody else who knows their manufacturing secrets. Eventually, more and more factories will become completely automated for security reasons.

author: ElectronicsGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 05:40:23 pm
content: Wow I'm impressed with the number of hostile and weird replies in this forum (not talking about the later replies which were in accordance with the topic).First someone telling me to use my "real" account. This is my first account. What's wrong with these people?Second someone telling me to learn manners when I was the one being attacked with weirdness.Anyways,I love electronics and I am asking for some advice on what are the best books to read? I have the art of electronics, is that the best? Does anyone know of a good undergraduate level book which covers all a graduate needs to know ?Thanks a lot to the normal people here.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 06:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 11, 2017, 10:24:47 pmSince you are doing a masters in microelectronics, you have people around you who can answer that kind of question. Since they know you they can ensure the answer is tailored to you, as opposed to the generic answers you will get here.So, what have they said?

author: abraxa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 08:55:55 pm
content: I can only assume but to me it looks like it was this sentence that triggered the reaction of other posters:QuoteThis was followed byQuotewhich didn't make it better. You are already aware that electronics is ahardsubject to study, comprehend and successfully apply. For this reason, your statements are red flags because they suggest that you're either falling victim to the Dunning–Kruger effect or you're arrogant enough to believe that you can achieve where so many others fail. Now, I'm not saying you are one of those but either way, your statements don't come off as being humble. Humbleness is generally seen as a virtue among those who are skilled, though. A lot of us have already dealt with people who can talk big but don't deliver, wasting time (and maybe money) in the process. Such people are never humble, making non-humble people immediately suspicious. Anecdotal evidence suggests to me that almost every skilled engineer has been burnt by such people or observed others being burnt. It could explain the reaction you've seen here.As BradC already wrote, "true" experts become experts not because they can study well but because they have passion - an inner desire - to dig deeper and allow themselves to be completely consumed by a particular subject. They want the answer to all possible "why"s and aren't afraid to go down the rabbit hole where others shy away. They persist where others give up. They work on projects that other people label as already being "good enough". By doing this, they accumulate knowledge that's not easily found elsewhere and allows them to complete truly difficult tasks - they became experts.At the same time, "expert" is not a static term. If you go to a trade/industry fair like the Embedded World in Germany, you'll find a whole range of expert-level engineers and FAEs. They may only be an expert in one particular chip/software/architecture/domain/whatever but they're experts nonetheless, simply because their job is demanding and requires a person to obtain such vast amounts of knowledge. A layman would call them experts but to people of the trade, they may merely appear as skilled engineers. It's all relative.If you had written that you want to become an expert in IC design, or an expert in system design, or an expert in circuit design then you would've defined a scope that's actually doable by a person who is both skilled and determined. As your post suggests that you want to become an expert in everything, the red flag comes into play.QuoteI can only speak for myself here, but this is also a red flag to some extent. By definition, universities exist for teachingandresearch. Here in Germany, the outcome of this combined with never-ending budget cuts is that a ton of people who want to do research are forced to do seminars, lectures and labs as well. The result of this is that the education suffers as those people are neither passionate about teaching nor skilled to do it properly. In other words: they shouldn't be allowed to teach and people whowantto learn but are hindered by unskilled staff are left with a sore spot for this issue. You indicating that you wish to become exactly this kind of person could again trigger a negative response, even if it's not how you meant it.My recommendation for you? Buy "The Art of Electronics" and see which chapters interest you the most. Not all possible fields are covered by the book of course but if you discover that one particular field is interesting you more than others then you could strive to become an expert in it. This may also happen during your university studies, of course. How to become an expert? Find something that motivates you (e.g. set yourself a goal by defining a project), learn of ways how it can be accomplished, study the underlying principles and methodologies, obtain and learn the tools commonly used for such work - anddo. Without doing, no one can ever make mistakes and learn from them. Without learning from mistakes, no one can become effective at solving problems and thus can't become an expert. Because experts are solving problems, hopefully ones worth of their time

author: ElectronicsGeek
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:32:53 pm
content: Quote from: abraxa on July 12, 2017, 08:55:55 pmTo each action there is an equal opposite reaction and only arrogant people will react to "arrogance".I already have the art of electronics though friend............ That's what I said in the post........................... I am looking for the absolute best undergraduate electronics book. A book I can be sure that covers everything at undergrad level so I can be at that level when I finish reading it.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:57:17 pm
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 12, 2017, 09:32:53 pmOnebook? That coverseverything?I got my degree in 1985 so maybe I missed the possibility that there is one book that would satisfy your requirement, but I'm looking at all the books I still have from my coursework and I can't imagine one book that could contain it all.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 09:59:34 pm
content: We, that is the members from the English-speaking countries and from Western Germany (because of the familiarity with that language) might be applying a strong judgment based on the little flag sign, when we assume automatically that any resident of the UK would have the same expressions available as we do..or not.That said, we should look at definitions. A 'Fachmann' (professional) is someone deemed to be fully versed in the trade he is plying, so on the level of an engineer that would already mean a lot. It should already include a lot of solved problems and completed tasks. An expert is someone, to whom other professionals turn to get a better understanding of and solution for their problems. So you can imagine what is considered to be a 'great expert'. We would say that of Steinmetz, Torman, Neumann, Widlar, Williams and their kind. Mostly with a lot of implied respect.Neither is the direct and automatic result of enrolling in the related discipline. Especially experts, contrary to the prodigy, which are mostly rather narrow focused, are defined by their track record, that is HAVING solved a multitude of problems. I think that here lies the reason for some of the posts which might carry an air of annoyance.When you scan this forum even cursory, you will find that there are indeed a lot of similar requests. This fact, combined with our experience of having been well educated and highly motivated at the starting points of our careers and yet having to slough trough many tiresome and boring tasks as well as the exciting ones, before even marginally qualifying as 'experts' should explain the abrasive answers to your post.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 12:57:55 am
content: QuoteKind of. I think the passion is important because it keeps you doing it long enough to become an expert, but that's all. I can think of people that love doing something they're rubbish atThere is a kind of rule that it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert.Ifwe allow that that's so, it is probably because once you've spent that amount of time doing it you've pretty much hit every possibility that might come along and, thus, know how to deal with it. As a 'for instance', just using a PC could make you an expert if you do it long enough since you'll be hit by most problems relating to a PC (update going wrong, desktop icons showing as blanks, gadgets not working, etc). You might not like using a PC, but you'll be an expert anyway!This might be worth a look:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26384712

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 02:19:07 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 12, 2017, 09:57:17 pmI just have an associates in EET and I have a shelf of textbooks. The statement above is not achievable.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 02:32:14 am
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 13, 2017, 01:50:19 amQuote from: GreyWoolfe on July 13, 2017, 02:19:07 amI guess were not very intelligent GreyWoolfe. But Ifeellike I am, to a certain extent.Maybe we're all just as described in the Pink Floyd song - Comfortably Numb ...

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 02:39:50 am
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 13, 2017, 01:50:19 amThen leave and don't come back.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 02:42:58 am
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 13, 2017, 01:50:19 amThe fact you believe you can read a book and become an expert does not bode well for your future as it demonstrates a lack of basic understanding about how one goes about acquiring knowledge and skill.The forum is actually well frequented by people of great knowledge and skill in the field of electronics. They are more than happy to help those who want to help themselves when they demonstrate an ability to actually learn. Asking for recommendations on a book that'll make you an "expert" is like me asking my GP for recommendations on a book I can read that'll make me a complete Surgeon. What sort of response do you think I'd get if I asked that? He'd either look at me like I was a lunatic, or with great pity.You've kinda had the same responses here.If you are in a room full of people, there's always one idiot. If you can spot him then it's obvious. If you think the room is full of idiots, then it's you.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 03:21:42 am
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 11, 2017, 10:24:47 pmHere you go:

author: albert22
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 03:32:26 pm
content: I too want a book to become an expert in electronics.And also one to become a millionaire.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 03:48:03 pm
content: Quote from: JoeN on July 13, 2017, 03:21:42 amlots of analog goodness,but is there a digital scope hidden somewhere in there? its as cluttered as my lab bench.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 07:28:27 pm
content: Quote from: ElectronicsGeek on July 13, 2017, 01:50:19 amYou should be very careful not to call other people idiots. None of us is super smart, electronics super star (Except maybe Dave). But we are all capable of learning. Electronics these days is so wast area of technologies that you could easily fill metric tons of shelf's with books and you would still miss something.

author: Mattjd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 07:32:41 pm
content: Nobody is coming to the conclusion this guy is a troll? Stop feeding PauloConstantino

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2017, 09:20:30 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 13, 2017, 02:32:14 amI also thought I was kinda smart. Didn't realize that I am an idiot. To quote a Jackson Browne song, "I'm gonna be a happy idiot and struggle for the legal tender"Since we are quoting songs--methinks he is adding-----wait for it----Just another brick in the wall.