Teardown & Repair of a Matsusada RE-600-1.6 600V 1.6A Power Supply - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 12:59:45 am
content: You can watch the video here: [31 Minutes]youtu.be/ztYTD8WXhUIMore videos at The Signal Path:http://www.TheSignalPath.com

author: tec5c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 02:33:04 am
content: I mean this is the nicest way possible Shahriar... I am somewhat glad that you weren't able to complete the repair. Now we know you're human after all.Scratching off the part number of some FETs... uhhh....-> ? ( <--- seems that the forum can't handle the symbol for infinity)

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 02:35:11 am
content: Quote from: tec5c on October 19, 2015, 02:33:04 amI'll come back to it, I really didn't have enough time to reverse engineer that module... O0

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 05:02:58 am
content: Wow, I just came across your channel, subscribed!

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 05:54:21 am
content: Quote from: tec5c on October 19, 2015, 02:33:04 amLOL. Yes, he's human, but he doesn't give up that easily.Keep up the great work on the repair vids, Shahriar!

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:17:18 am
content: Given all the potted modules I would be tempted to build your own H-Bridge driver and leave the original secondary section intact. The quality of construction in that unit plus the FETs with the part number ground off means that I would avoid that company if I was equipping a lab. They've actually gone out of their way to make a unit unserviceable.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:25:59 am
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on October 19, 2015, 02:35:11 amyou bastard!could that potted module be just gate drivers?

author: BFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:32:00 am
content: I think X-ray photo will help to do reverse engineering much quickly.

author: mauroh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 10:46:59 am
content: QuoteFinally I got the real meaning of this emoticon O0 IT IS SHAHRIR!! The unbeatable engineer.Great video... I know it will be just a matter of time, but this PSU will be restoredMauro

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 08:57:05 pm
content: Quote from: BFX on October 19, 2015, 10:32:00 amI have been trying to buy something for that. They always climb up in price very quickly...

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2015, 09:08:54 pm
content: Easy, head off to the local vet and ask him to x-ray the part. A few dollars or maybe a sixpack may change hands but everyone ends up happy.

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 03:05:38 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on October 19, 2015, 09:08:54 pmGood call, I will try that.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 03:15:42 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on October 19, 2015, 09:08:54 pmA vet won't x-ray your pet for the price of a sixpack. Why would you expect such a bargain price for x-raying a power supply?I'm sure a vet would be happy to help for standard x-ray charges.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 07:24:07 am
content: Half of what you pay a vet for with an X-ray is their educated diagnosis of the image. Shahriar will be providing that part!

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 10:43:51 am
content: cant the potting compound be dissolved?

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 12:14:34 pm
content: Time for an isolation transformer and some serious (and a little dangerous) troubleshooting.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 12:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 20, 2015, 03:15:42 amActually a dentist or a vet in Germany would do it as a favor for free.I went to a dentist a few times for x-ray purpose.It is hard for them to charge anything, because there is no accounting item for this.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 06:35:59 pm
content: My dentist tends to do an X ray per year, so if you just go there for a check up, he will simply do the regular one, then might, if you are on good terms with the dentist, do the potted module as a no charge item, if billing queries he will simply mark it as "patient moved during exposure" which null rates it.Have asked my dentist to call me when he gets a new Xray unit, I want the old one. Grumpy tube, low emission no problem, just have to either get some image intensifier cassettes to strip out as a light source or get a pack of black and white paper ( and a lot of buff envelopes and cardboard light barrier sheets) and rediscover the joys of hypo, fixer and stop baths.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2015, 07:59:24 pm
content: The transformers in x-ray machines are very useful items to radio amateurs who need a bit more power. I have a 13,8V power supply that uses the filament transformer from a machine and it's useful to 100A output. That transformer is 25cm x 25cm x 35cm and a two man lift. As for the HV side, the average is about 2KV @ 1,5A, enough to kill someone who's careless in less than a heartbeat.The newer x-ray machines don't use film, they're digital. I have a set of x-ray images of my lower back on CDROM stored in some proprietary format that my PC can't read.

author: ozwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 05:52:59 pm
content: Hi Shahriar,Why not contact Matsusada directly? I've found most manufacturers to be very helpful in situations like this.I found this on their webpagehttp://www.matsusada.com/contact/ask/index.shtml.Ozwolf

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 05:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: ozwolf on October 21, 2015, 05:52:59 pmI did. They said they can sell me a new supply and that's it.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 08:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on October 21, 2015, 05:54:11 pmWell that sends aclearmessage to potential buyers of their gear.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2015, 09:43:56 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 21, 2015, 08:27:29 pmThat's for sure. Likewise the odd choices they made in the rest of the supply.

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 12:34:39 am
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 21, 2015, 09:43:56 pmSadly, no way of getting more information to fix the damn thing.

author: OldSchoolTechCorner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:01:25 am
content: I had luck with acetone for a few days, they do have other chemicals on the market, just google "epoxy remover". Then most epoxies go rubbery/chalky at around 100C and chip away at it. I won't give up yet.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:29:55 am
content: get a bottle of MEK. MEthyl-Ethylene-Ketonethrow the module in it. and let it sit for a few days. the potting compoound will dissolve.no harm will be done to the electronicspossibly the potting is due to the high voltage

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:02:23 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 21, 2015, 08:27:29 pmYeah, something about how they don't want operators to mess around inside a high voltage power supply.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:09:44 am
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 23, 2015, 03:02:23 amThere are quite a number of us who are qualified to work on such equipment.I don't see the problem.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 03:11:10 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 23, 2015, 03:09:44 amAnd how are they supposed to know that? Is it worth the potential liability issues?-Sent from the country where we sue fast food restaurants for selling *hot* coffee

author: Hugoneus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:23:25 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 23, 2015, 03:02:23 amThis is not true. All the high-voltage points in the power supply are already exposed. Potting does not protect anything.The only reason for rubbing off part numbers or putting epoxy on parts in this case is to protect the power supply design and to keep it secret.

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:26:10 pm
content: Well there are certainly many big secrets in PSU design.Quote from: German_EE on October 20, 2015, 07:59:24 pmTry a DICOM viewer.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 02:26:33 pm
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on October 23, 2015, 02:23:25 pmI agree, I was referring to their unwillingness to provide you with a schematic or repair manual.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 10:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 23, 2015, 03:11:10 amI don't see how liability figures into this, properly trained people should have access to the repair documentation. But as we can see they have insecurity issues since they insist on potting circuits that don't require potting and they rub part numbers off parts. I would opt for believing the design is crap and they are saving face through obscurity.I don't buy into the legal liability argument one bit.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 10:41:42 pm
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 23, 2015, 10:07:12 pmI agree that obfuscation is definitely part of the equation, especially as demonstrated in Shahriar's teardown. However, in the end they are selling the device to operators, not trained service technicians under contract / employment. Every test equipment manufacturer I can think of advises end users as much as possible to not disassemble the equipment and leave servicing up to trained repair personnel. I doubt those cautionary statements are made solely as a matter of politeness. Liability potentially arises if they provide you with the information you need to get yourself into trouble. As sad as that may sound, that is the current legal climate.How much do they gain and how much do they risk by providing a 2nd hand end user with their documentation? Where do the incentives lie? When companies are willing to provide customers with detailed service manuals and schematics, I think they are going out of their way to do their customers a (much appreciated) favor.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 11:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: nidlaX on October 23, 2015, 10:41:42 pmI see your point regarding supplying service information to a second hand owner.Then again if I owned a company and bought one of those, it quits and my Maintenance / Cal Lab cannot get service information to fix it, I am going to raise unholy Hell. That power supply could be part of an automatic test set up and without it my production line may be at half output.

author: nidlaX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 12:02:19 am
content: Quote from: AF6LJ on October 23, 2015, 11:51:43 pmYeah, I bet they would treat you a little differently if you were an MSRP paying customer. That's why I'm always extremely grateful when I call up a company and they take their time to answer my questions or help me out even though I'm trying to find information for second hand and/or obsolete products.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 12:08:12 am
content: Indeed.

author: ozwolf
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 04:03:09 am
content: Quote from: Hugoneus on October 21, 2015, 05:54:11 pmHmmm, that's very disappointing and not the response I would expect.They missed a great marketing opportunity.Ozwolf

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2015, 09:06:31 am
content: A quick google search found a 'RE series Instruction manual'. In the first pages, after the warranty terms there is the following note:"Schematics of products shall not be submitted to users."You can have other info at additional charge (!) but schematics, no no.

author: 1kostik1976
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2016, 02:33:43 pm
content: hello.as the success of repair?what optocouplers are used in the module pc-260a-ul?I have a picture of the module pc-260-ul on Monday will try to lay out.

author: 1kostik1976
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2016, 02:13:44 pm
content: better not get scanned. to be seen all the photo well.