hdd with the PN removed because refurbished to xxx specs, isn't crazy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 03:00:38 pm
content: so my bos bought two dozen of Hitachi 2.5" HDDs in mini form factor,which should operate at both 3.3V and 5V, from two differend suppliers.Five actually works at both 3.3V and 5V, the others do not, and only operate at 5V.Same model, same manufactor, but different serial number, well ...... actually some have the serial number printed on the back,while on the others it was deleted by the same manufactor, as disks arrived here sealed in their bags.But, weird still, the ones with the serial number removed come with an extra label sticked on,saying "refurbished to xxx specs"That's shocking for me: brand new products? but refuribished? To meet some specs(1)?!?What the frog?!? How products manufactoring and labeling do work?edit:(1) The datasheet states that they MUST work at both 3.3V and 5V,and does not mention that there are versions that only work at 5V.So, it is actually "refurbished to meet the datasheet"

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 03:04:45 pm
content: ... for the HDDs with the serial number deleted,the antistatic bags always report a serial number, which is not written on the disks!!!Worse still, looking with a 4x magnifier, I can still see the serial number that got removed,as it was engraved into the pastic and they only removed the inkGuess what? It's not the serial number reported on the antistatic bag!This sounds like full mess to me! Hitachi?!? What the fsk?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 03:09:56 pm
content: Another batch just arrived, this time twelve discs with "3.3V/5V" written on the label,just close to the maximum current specified, 500mA!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 03:34:54 pm
content: QuoteBy Googling

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:11:24 pm
content: Yep, 'recertified' is the euphemism of 'refurbished by manufacturer'. Seagate and WD offer those too.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:15:32 pm
content: How old are these drives, if they are branded as Hitachi?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on February 18, 2025, 04:15:32 pmdunno, I think ... ummm 2010? 2012?they go on old industrial modules (PowerPC and x86 based) whose ATA-44pin controller operates at 3.3V.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:31:07 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 18, 2025, 04:11:24 pmNever seen anything similar in 20 years of experience with HddsWhat shocks me is that if you don't receive the HDDs sealed in their bags,you have no idea what the part number is because it has been removed.Also, I am shocked to see that there are units that need to be "recertified" in order to meet what the datashet says?It sounds crazy to me!Worse still, the xxx768 deleted on "recertified" HDDs is the same as the xxx768 written in HDDs that do not operate at 3.3Vbut just looking at HDDs how could you know this? if you do not pull out those HDDs form the sealed bags?It will be a missing information, as not reported anywhere on the HDDs!!!!This is shocking and very annoying when you have to order replacement parts ...Oh, now I have the same bad feelings, if you read my other topic, about Hitachi and Seagate microdrives ...

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:33:37 pm
content: This comes from the last lot.And it's how things should be!Look there:- model number, visible, not removed- part number, visible, not removed- clear indication that it works at both 3.3V and 5V- maximum current is also indicated

author: squadchannel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:52:40 pm
content: ThinkPad X40 was using 1.8" 3.3V logic, 5V motor HDD.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 04:56:46 pm
content: Old new stock, sealed!!!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 05:04:35 pm
content: Usually the disks recertified by the manufacturer are labeled correctly (also stating 'recertified'). The disks without label are most likely recertified by a third party and I would treat them as used drives anyway. I'm not a friend of those renewed, refurbished, recertified and what not marketing terms because they have no clear meaning.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 05:12:09 pm
content: Not yet ...

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 05:20:17 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 18, 2025, 05:04:35 pmIndeed the sticked label says "refurbished to HGST"Very tiny fonts

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 05:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 18, 2025, 05:04:35 pmI guess, same story with Microdrives, I wrote a recaphere. Hope someone will give some hints.And "HGST", whatever it means, seems involved even here, again with Hitachi ...

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 05:36:37 pm
content: HGST = Hitachi Global Storage TechnologiesThey bought IBM's HDD business and were acquired by WD later on. The brand was phased out in 2018.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 07:28:25 pm
content: Those are 1.8" PATA drives, not the far more common 2.5" ones.Why not use an adapter + CF card or some other flash memory solution instead of old fragile HDDs?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 07:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 18, 2025, 07:28:25 pmfits 2.5" bay, my boss's choice.Anway, it's NOT the point here!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 07:52:21 pm
content: (by the way... compact flashes are not always truly TrueATA and often have problems that require a Linux kernel patch, let alone an ad-hoc firmware that we wrote!I bought a CF-flash on Amazon, new and modern, and I found myself in front of a "blocksize" device for which the first LBA is not 0 but 1if in the low-level layers disk_block_read() dick_block_write() you add an offset +1 to the LBA entry, everything works perfectly.and it is not a CHS device, it is rather LBA28 (according to ATA identify and other settings), but it works like this weird way ...now... imagine the hassle of having to patch the firmware of multiple devices just for this stupidityjust to say, replace a hdd with another hdd and you are fine until the devices are EOL, that is 2027, they must "resist" another 2 years)

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2025, 07:54:29 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 18, 2025, 05:36:37 pmSo, Hitachi is no more a thing.Who can I contact to know more details about this x-file?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 02:50:49 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 18, 2025, 07:54:29 pmCan't you go back to the place you bought them from? Surely if the drives don't work as advertised, then they should remedy it with either a suitable replacement or full refund.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 11:23:57 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on February 20, 2025, 02:50:49 amSure, but it's not the point!The hard drives are sealed by Hitachi, so I don't understand how they handled it.Their datasheet mentions "3.3V and 5V compatibility" but specifies "unless otherwise stated"(hitachi, I added the operating voltage information below each label, this information is written nowhere)(seagate, see "+5V")Seagateclearly writes "+5V" on their 5V only 1.8" HDDs and microdrives"3.3V unless otherwise stated" -> you know it from both the label "+5V" on sealed bag, and from the label sticked on its content: QA respected!Hitachi...indicates apartnumber on the sealed bag that is not written on what the bag contains(this is terrible for every QA management),you find out that the content of the bag, the microdrive, either has a "scratched off" partnumberyou also find out there is a "refurbished by HGST" label sticked on the drivewhy this is not written also on the sealing bag? why you have to open the sealed bag to know this???as result, some units complie with what the datasheet says, some do not, with absolutely no indication anywhere!To me, this does not seem like good QA management, but rather a bloody mess!* * * * *Returning the goods has acost, in terms of S/H and time, and it doesn't even make sense!- - -I don't know, imagine if I went to the supermarket to buytomato sauceand found bottles with black glass, that have no indication except "sauce".The "sweet tomato sauce" is not good for spaghetti, and .....,.. some people might not be able to digest the "hot sauce" ...So what do you do? Do you open them and taste them all?(this is exactly what I did with the hard drives and microdrives,I opened all the seaked bags, and I tested them ... )- - -The behavior I see could be acceptable on the part of Chinese recyclers, but I repeat, the bags are sealed, and come from Hitachi, no one has tampered with them, this matter is rather worrying, especially the fact that they erase the part numbers and that it is not reported on the label!QA process is a serious thing, and if the additional label says "rectified to specifications", then it means that they have modified the electronics from what came out of the production department, it's already serious that they came out with 5V units, that they then "rectified" them to 3.3V/5V is something that should have been clearly reported on the label!Worse still, there are also units that work ONLY at 3.3V, without any indication. If 5V units are not damaged when you insert them into a router like the rb532 or a PDA like the Zaurus SL-xxxx, imagine what happens when you insert them into a USB_CF adapter that is typically powered by 5VIt smells like fried chip .... I destroyed 5 units ....(I can still hear my boss yelling on the phone... I don't know against whom, but she's pretty pissed off)

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 04:20:21 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on February 20, 2025, 03:07:26 pmPrecisely! Checking the origin of the various lots, we found they come from directly from HGST!I talked about it on Skype with a guy(1) who at the time (~2005) worked inside Sharp and assembled SL-C3000 PDAs.He told HGST directly supplied Sharp with microdrives that had to work at 3.3V/5V as requested for such PDAs.And we also know that he supplied Apple with modified versions for the first generation iPodThat's fine with me, but I still don't understand why Hitache and Toshiba ...... didn't put a damn indication of all this on the discs and on the bag labels, like Seagate did (and I hope still does)(1) for 3 months he was a co-worker during a transfer to Tokyoevery now and then we talk on Skype because we both like Zaurus PDA

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 10:02:45 am
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 20, 2025, 04:20:21 pmI believe almost all of these drives were OEM drives, so modified specs or firmware should not come as a surprise. I'm not even sure if these were available as retail drives, can't remember ever selling a retail one.Actually most Hitachi (and IBM) drives sold "back then" to customers were overstock OEM drives, so were Seagate drives; WD were mostly retail drives.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 12:00:18 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 21, 2025, 10:02:45 amThe Microdrive units for Apple iPod first gen were special Hitachi microdrives.only operate at 5Vthe firmware is True-IDE onlythere are extra "power management" commands...But they have theApple Logoprinted on the label, and the sealed bag also has the same indication.So, at least, they were/are recognizable!

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 12:02:13 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on February 21, 2025, 10:02:45 amWhat about these?

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 12:14:55 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 21, 2025, 12:00:18 pmThis line needs further comment: those units were sold directly by Hitachi to Apple,here I'm talking about old new stock that somehow ended up on eBay or TaoBau,most likely from the Apple-Center affiliated centers that used them for repairs.I personally saw some when I visited Japan.My colleague had bought them on TaoBau.Typically you never see them packaged in new condition, but used.Or you can still find (eBay is full) them installed inside iPods 1st gen.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 04:22:02 pm
content: Quote from: DiTBho on February 21, 2025, 12:00:18 pmNope.TheiPod miniused the Hitachi Microdrive (1” HDD).All the full-size iPods (the original through to the last iPod Classic) used 1.8” drives, mostly from Toshiba, with a few from Samsung.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 05:03:33 pm
content: This one

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2025, 09:53:42 pm
content: I don’t think Apple hasevershipped a hard disk drive (or optical drive, for that matter) without a custom label with Apple logo and part number, usually with custom firmware.Anyway, as I said, those Apple-labeled Hitachi Microdrives were used only in the short-lived iPod mini. Its successor, the iPod nano, used flash storage. And all other hard disk-based iPods used 1.8” drives from Toshiba or Samsung.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 01:01:08 pm
content: FoundthisarticleIt mentions something:QuoteFrom what I have observed, some lines are needed:some Hitachi "blu labels" have the same PN of "white labels" -> the color of the label means nothing, it's just marketingsome Hitachi "blu labels" do not operate at 3.3V -> OEMsome Hitachi "white labels" do not operate at 3.3V -> OEMsome { HMS360402D5CF00, HMS360404D5CF00 } operate at 3.3V (e.g. those selected for Sharp, used in Zaurus PDAs)never seen a { HMS360602D5CF00, HMS360604D5CF00, HMS360606D5CF00, HMS360608D5CF00 } operating at 3.3V, not sure if "not-OEM" ever existedRegular card readers are all operating at 5V.The PIO_MODE0 is always supported, but the ATA identify command has "reserved" fields.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 01:09:40 pm
content: QuoteSome first generation units (~2003) operate at 3.3V/5V, some only at 5V, but it's not clear how to identify them.As far as I can tell from what I've observed, the second generation (~2004..2005) is all 5V.The article mentions two configurations {removable, embedded} ...... which could probably mean that there are 3.3V units for embedded uses (like routers? PDAs?)but again I've never seen any indication either on the labels or on the sealed bags

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 01:30:14 pm
content: Have you checked their SMART values? Specifically, fields like "Power-on hours", "Start-stop count" and so on.

author: DiTBho
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2025, 04:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on February 22, 2025, 01:30:14 pmMicrodrives do not support SMART.On the 1.8" SMART is supported, 15 disks report <100 Power-on hours, and <5 start-stop count.