is this a good (or overkill) PCB guillotine? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: src1989
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 03:42:26 pm
content: i've been looking around and found this on ebay:eBay auction: #Heavy-Duty-Hand-Lever-Shear-Sheet-Metal-Cutting-Tool-Hand-Lever-Shear-Cutter-New/254672925285would this be a good choice for cutting my FR4 1.6mm PCB laminates? the other alternative in my price range is the heavy duty ones that are for 10 sheets of 80GSM paper but i don't want to be sharpening blades...up to now i've been using a black&decker jigsaw which is slightly messy and slightly noisy...

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 03:49:15 pm
content: I just use a vinyl tile cutter. Less than half that price a few years ago @ $25. Guess the price has gone up:https://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-12-in-Quick-Cut-Vinyl-Tile-VCT-Cutter-30002/100038849It does sit flat on the bench and does not need to be attached.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 04:39:55 pm
content: I was all set to purchase the Machine Mart variant recently for similar purposes - PCBs, Small Aluminium panels etc. Then I watched this video that one of the Machine Mart reviewers had made (he gave it 5 stars):It suddenly all seemed rather clunky and 'industrial'. It looks as if it really needs quite a lot of securing and effort, even for light stuff. I have a couple of straight paper cutting blades from avery oldphotocopier that I hinged together and used in the vise, I was disappointed to see that the shaped cutting blades of the commercial item produced just as much (if not more) distortion on the waste side than my basic straight ones. If you were wanting to cut a PCB outline out of a larger sheet of FR4, its very difficult to see which side would be the 'waste' as there is inevitably bending, tearing and delamination of the glass fibres.I'm sure they are fine for thin sheet for car bodywork etc. (the reviewer's use), but they definitely seem to lack any finesse.P.S. You should have no difficulty with the accent.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:02:29 am
content: The quick answer here is NO1The problem is that the device is designed to ct sheet metal and tends to curl the waste piece. This might not be an issue if you are trimming a board but could result in ruined boards if you are trying to cut out a bunch of small boards out of a large sheet. There are videos of this type of shear in action someplace o the net. to get an idea of how they work. In any event there are multiple factors here so I can't say the shear is entirely unusable in a home shop.Quote from: src1989 on August 06, 2020, 03:42:26 pmAll PCB materials are abrasive to one extent or another. As a result you will need to sharpen or replace the blades from time to time. In small shop that could be decades though, but still you should expect the blades to wear.QuoteConsider making a JigSaw table. This turns the jigsaw upside down, under a built up "table", which gives you two handed hold on the PCB. A JigSaw table is an easy way to get better results out of the tools you have. If you have a strong future in PCB construction, consider making a CNC router. A router table is also a possibility but the tiny cutters require extremely careful usage and worse the abrasive dust falls right into the router.Oh be careful about that dust, wear breathing filters.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:44:45 am
content: I use a mini brake shear.https://www.busybeetools.com/products/mini-shear-brake-7-1-2in-cx-series.htmlMine is 20 years old and has thousands of cuts on it an yes it Chinese.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 05:52:21 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on August 07, 2020, 12:44:45 amYes, those are perfect for the job. Sadly they are very expensive compared to the shears and tend to have very limited cutting capacity when it comes to metal sheet (thinking front panels again).One company I worked at had an 8ft long powered one in the machine shop that I had access to. That was awesome for cleanly cutting panels with no finishing required. It made the floor shake a bit though. It also had the benefit of a whole pile of undistorted (sometimes exotic) alloy offcuts behind it (waste side) which were free for the taking. After all these years, I still really miss that machine!

author: src1989
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 01:04:35 am
content: what about a laminate flooring cutter? better or worse than the clarke-knockoff?

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 04:17:52 pm
content: Quote from: src1989 on August 10, 2020, 01:04:35 amMaybe add a link as I'm not sue what you are talking about.The only issues I can think of does it tend to curl the stuff being cut off. Also does it provide the leverage you will need to actually cut the board. The device pickle9000 mentioned above is actually available in multiple sizes and even in the small size can be very useful in an electronics shop for sheet metal work. You can even use such to trim or cut, some grades of plastics.For minor adjustment type trimming work you can even use hand held sheet metal shears. For example:https://www.amazon.com/Wiss-W5N-Bulldog-Pattern-Snips/dp/B000M2T9F8/ref=sr_1_103_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=heavy+duty+metal+tin+snips&qid=1597075999&s=hi&sr=1-103-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUE4NU9VRTFERDBEUDcmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0Mzg4NDMzUU81TldPWUtIR0pHJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1NzI3NTMzMEZWNkg5MjA2Tkkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9idGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl.You want large ones for the long cutting length of the jaws.

author: src1989
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 05:02:58 pm
content: https://www.screwfix.com/p/wolfcraft-lc-600-laminate-cutter-465mm/1230Xi'd prefer a "silent" option, one that doesn't create dust etc.edit; i'm still creating dust when i sand the edges with the dremel.... but still....

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 05:54:57 pm
content: I looked at images of several of these when you mentioned them earlier. From what I can see, they all seem to have quite a wide clearance between the blade and the supports (other blade?) at each side (see the 3rd photo in your screwfix listing). This is probably not an issue for MDF or composite laminate boards, but for something thin and woven like the glass fibres in FR4 I can see anything other than a tight shearing action being an issue.Maybe you can go and look at one in the flesh at B&Q or Wickes. Screwfix might even unpack one for you if they're feeling generous (although probably not with covid restrictions). Take a piece of board with you and see if has any chance of a clean cut.P.S. The mention of "serrated cutter bars" sounds like a bad thing for your PCB traces too!

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 06:45:50 pm
content: One thing I have found that works is an electric tile cutter with a diamond saw blade. Eg:https://www.screwfix.com/p/performance-power-ptc450e-450w-electric-tile-cutter-230-240v/469gtcheaper than the laminate cutter.You put some water in the trough to cool the blade and also prevent any dust. They are pretty quiet too (that one says it has an induction motor). They are a little bit messy but not as bad as you might imagine, and reasonably easy to clean up. They have no trouble cutting FR4, any top side copper peels back in a little ribbon.The other advantage is that you can use it to tile the kitchen!

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 08:07:36 pm
content: I use one small 9-inch bandsaw with a metal blade (narrow teeths)works fine and is very precise, and around $100 in any home depot.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:33:35 am
content: You really want to avoid doing too much FR4 cutting (or other glass-based substrates) without proper ventilation and dustmask. The dust contains lots of small sharp glass fibers and causes cancer, similar (but not as bad) to how asbestos causes cancer.Some people try to mitigate this by submerging the cut PCB in water or oil.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:52:48 am
content: I've never had any problems using a normal paper cutting guillotine.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: DenzilPenberthy on August 12, 2020, 10:52:48 amDoes it cut paper any more?

author: MarkL
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 03:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on August 07, 2020, 12:44:45 amI'll put in another endorsement for the mini-brake/shear. I have a similar (maybe the same?) model but it's no-name and red. Mine is also about 20 years old. It does fine on PCBs, and cuts with no curling. It can be had somewhat cheaper if you look around:https://www.micromark.com/Mini-Metal-Shear-BrakeThe sheared edge is not as smooth as a routed edge. I usually spend a few seconds to dress the edge with fine sandpaper on a wood block.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 03:28:15 pm
content: Unfortunately prices are significantly higher in the UK (I remember these things were so much cheaper 20 years ago)

author: alanambrose
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 04:38:02 pm
content: I worked in one lab that had a paper-shear like thing which worked well - well except for tiny PCBs (say 10mm x 10mm) which we're too difficult to hold. I always thought it was especially for PCBs, but I have not gone looking for one since.Alan

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:14:00 pm
content: Quote from: alanambrose on August 12, 2020, 04:38:02 pmI use aviation shears for small stuff.

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:05:02 pm
content: I would, in a way, say it's "underkill" and maybe very wrong.I think someone wrote about it been a metal sheet cutter and that these cutters often bend the metal sheet.The cutter is maybe "underkill" when you later on want to make larger boards or want to cut out several copies of the same boards.Start by buying a type of cutter with long blade and a support plate underneath, so you know the cut is getting correct.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:16:54 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on August 06, 2020, 03:49:15 pmHey that looks great. I've been using the sheetmetal shear at my friend's shop, it would be handy to have something at home though.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 12:19:24 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on August 12, 2020, 10:16:54 pmHope it is a good friend. I once had access to a well equipped shop at work. The shop did everything from complex metal fabrication and machining to electronic design and construction. There was a big sign at the shear (a 3' PEXTO open-throat stomp shear): DO NOT CUT PCB's ON THIS SHEAR." The reason, PCB's dulled the shear, and while it still worked for PCB's, it left burrs on sheet metal and needed to be resharpened and adjusted frequently.A home shear used only or mostly for PCB's is preferred.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 06:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on August 12, 2020, 12:50:21 pmI also use an old-fashioned paper shear (not the rotary cutter type). I rather doubt that it keeps it in the best condition for cutting paper but I have a rotary shear for that. It doesn't seem to have got noticeably worse at cutting FR4 in the time I've been using it, but I do have trouble holding the material down. I should probably add a more effective clamp.