Kids these days: growing up connected 24/7 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 am
content: Back when I was a lad in the early 80's my house always had a computer> I am most computer literate. But I did have a computer in my pocket until 8 years ago well into being an adult.Do you think the current generation of kid who are connected 24/7 are going to have problems with face to face social interactions? When I was a child if you didn't like something you had to tell the person and then they could punch you in the face or make fun of you back. That's very different with face book where you are hiding behind a screen. But its also different then our internet because when you talked to people online that were spread out over the planet and I have never seen an internet person in real life.I think that would make kids emotionally immature because they don't see instant face expressions change or have to deal with being a dick to someone to their face. We are going to be like that black mirror episode where everyone is judged by their 5 star rating and common people have 3 star ratings and are poor.It also give you instant gratification: You want to learn about trains? Go to the library pull out the card catalogue and start reading books. In as little as two hours you will know why trains have 4' wide tracks unless the book is out then its 2 weeks. Now you just: "siri why do trains have 4' wide tracks?" instant answer. That can't be good for developing your brains attention tracking giri-cortus-oblongada region.I would say if you were born in 2009 you would always have a computer on you. I saw some Korean mothers with 4 and 6 year old kids. All were glued to their phones the whole time even when the food came, none of them talked to each other or put down their phones. But that's asia in America civilized people don't play with their phone in the company of others. My kids wouldn't have a phone until they were old enough to buy it and pay the bill each month and NO playing with the phone out in public. What the fuck does a 4 year old need an iPhone 8 for? I would make him play with the ball in cup toy if he's board. Or those 1980's LCD video game things that beeped and had one very linear game that was the same every second it you played it. Those toys were boredom multipliers that taught kids how much fun work was.

author: Echo88
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 01:25:17 pm
content: Thats the grumpy old men syndrome. Welcome to the show.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 02:21:48 pm
content: Well, for one, I haven't owned a phone since a couple years ago (I bought an iPhone 3G to throw Whited00r on and to use as a PDA) and even with my BLU R1 HD cheapish Amazon phone, I rarely use it for anything but an emergency phone, and to hold music.I can accredit a lot of my social skills and personal knowledge to the internet. Without the internet, I would likely have been a very sad and lonely person (more than I am now, ha ha, but that is for different reasons). I would have never learned to program, it's likely I wouldn't have gotten as interested in EE, I wouldn't have as much general knowledge as I do now, and there are countless hobbies like locksmithing and legacy computer collecting that I would have never gotten into.I can take apart and reassemble nearly any IBM compatible from 1981 to today with general knowledge I have gathered on the internet. I agree, some people use the internet as a substitute for the real world, and they are the same people I deal with like I would deal with a 3 year old kid running around my legs. I don't snap with people my own age because people my own age, quite objectively, are stupider and more rambunctious than I. The internet has allowed me to talk with people that I can actually reason and deliberate with from all sorts of different fields. The people of all different skill levels and professions I have met on the internet have given me insights into an abundance of different arts and works.To stop before my ego becomes the size of the continental US, I think that it's a dual edged sword. I can't neglect what the internet and computing in general has done for me, as much as I can't neglect what it has destroyed for other people. It's the act of wishing for simpler times that is as old as time itself. As soon as something new and powerful becomes ubiquitous, we get issues with it that people have never needed to deal with before. Tetanus from stepping on a nail while building a shack is a danger more lethal than losing your personal details to someone over the internet, but it's been something that we've had to deal with for a lot longer, and that we are used to.Anyways, my rantatious tuppence.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 03:29:49 pm
content: A study in The Netherlands (Sex when younger then 25, among 20.000 people between 12-25, first done in 2005, then repeated in 2012 and 2017) found that young people start later having sex. Since 2012 the 'first-time' age for all forms of sex moved up 1.5 years according to this Dutch study. It also is backed by similar results in a European study.The study does not give an explanation for these results but to me it is clear: when you hold a Smartphone, you do not hold anything elseMore serious: a greater immersion in a virtual world leads to pulling out of the real world. There is a reason various Internet millionaires refuse to let their own kids play with the toys mummy and daddy invented.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 03:38:28 pm
content: Social media is becoming a public dumpster

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 05:05:19 pm
content: Some eventually develop "allergy" and revert to more balanced life but not many. It is important for parents not to be lazy in first place and find something else to do for kids and themselves. Kids are just bored but cannot find anything meaningful to focus on. Many parents just the same...

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 05:43:39 pm
content: Just out of pure curiosity, how many people here have kids?I, for one, do not.

author: woody
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 05:51:56 pm
content: I do.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 06:14:47 pm
content: The reason I am wondering is that people without children tend to have different ideas of how to deal with them than actual parents.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 06:27:38 pm
content: I think that it’s no different than with any other new media or telecommunication method: it takes a while for the customs and etiquette around them to evolve.For example, let’s look at phones. It took a while for the etiquette to be established that you don’t call at dinner time except in emergencies. And we answer with “hello” and not “ahoy hoy” as Alex Bell wanted.I already see how differently young and old people use cellphones: older people treat them much like landlines: answer now before the call is gone (and extend this to texts, too). Younger people are MUCH more likely to ignore the phone call and call back later, so as to not interrupt whatever they’re doing.(Both young and old tend to stare into their screens if their current real-world activity bores them.)Society will adapt and integrate these things, and I have no doubt that it will be fine in the end.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 06:32:50 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 14, 2018, 06:27:38 pmThe thing is, as a person in the demographic of question here (16) I never do any of this. I rarely use my smartphone, normally just using it to play music in the car, and if I am waiting and really have nothing better to do, play a bit of temple run. I've never in my life used my phone to ignore someone or be rude at a table. I've sometimes forgotten to charge the damn thing for weeks on end.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 06:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on March 14, 2018, 06:14:47 pmI have two teenagers. They both like to game but also like to meet people outside their rooms. Based on that I'd say kids who want to have a social life with real people have a social life with real people. Internet just makes it easier to hook up with people with the same interests. Also social behaviour is learned. It seems it is easy to curse & yell at people in an online game without any repercusions. My kids used to do that (even though I told them not to). Later on they stopped doing that because daddy was right: if they curse & yell too much people will start to ignore them and 'play' with other people who are nice to others.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 07:00:04 pm
content: You do also have to understand that a lot of the time, at least for me, when I talk shit on the internet, it's with friends who didn't care, or on a game where I don't expect there to be people who do care. We do it at each other and mess around, and we don't hate each other for it.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 07:14:06 pm
content: QuoteHaha!

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2018, 07:17:50 pm
content: I have not children, so I don't know anything about how they interact with each other.My concern is about the way they interact with knowledge, be it math or who was Napoleon.It seems, that many youngs confuse to be able to google for an article in the internet, with really knowing something.To exaggerate it: "If I can find in the index a of medicine book how brain surgery is performed, I know about it".

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 01:54:35 am
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on March 14, 2018, 05:43:39 pmChildren and grandchildren. Some bury nose in phone, others do not(grandchildren-3 of 4 not old enough to have a phone per parents). My phone doesn't rule me. For the past 18 years, I have had a company phone, ridiculous amounts of email, text and airtime, I am a remotefield service technician . My mindset is that a phone is a tool, nothing more. I live on my company phone from 7:30 to 6:00, 5 days a week. Makes me want to ignore my personal phone. I use the least amount of data on the shared plan. One of my sons-in-law uses the most of everyone.I spend significant time on computers/internet. A large part of my job is done this way plus I use my personal computer on the 'net quite a bit. However, I also make significant time for my family. If you bring a smartphone to the dinner table and look at it, I will up and leave. A balancing act can be learned, there has to be a willingness. Having seen it with family, the more time people spend with their nose in the phone, the less social they are, including not having simple manners and courtesy.

author: buck converter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 02:21:53 am
content: Kid from "these days" Kids who are not connected do not know how to interact with other kids. Imagine being barred from TV, Radio, and phone in your day. How would you fit in?

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 03:21:32 am
content: Quote from: Echo88 on March 14, 2018, 01:25:17 pmBearing in mind:Quote from: Beamin on March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 amThat would be premature senility + grumpy old man syndrome. It normally takes another 20 years before you start saying "When I were a lad..." and you're not quoting a Monty Python sketch.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 03:28:31 am
content: Quote from: ferdieCX on March 14, 2018, 07:17:50 pmQuote from: Albert Einstein

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 03:47:14 am
content: Every generation has a "moral panic" about the younger generation. Today it is smartphones, in the 90s it was raves, 80s video nasties and video games, etcetera, etc. Almost always it amounts to nothing and the generation grows up just as normal as the previous one, and the one before that, and so on.In the late 18th century the moral panic was about the "youth of todayreading too many books". Our moral panics about youth will sound as stupid to future generations as that one does to us.If you're finding yourself taking this kind of moral panic seriously, rather than just making the occasional joke about it, you have fossilized, you have forgotten what it was like to be young and to hear this fromyourolder generation and it's time you booked your place in the Golden Glades Retirement Home for the Morally Panicked and moved into your armchair there with a glass of warm milk as soon as possible.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 04:17:51 am
content: For those of you who have become "fossilized"...I have plenty of replacement vacuum tubes for your head if need any.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 05:12:08 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 15, 2018, 03:47:14 amWhen I was in (elementary) school, the concern was kids not reading enough books. Not me, though, because reading books was the way I started learning about science and technology. I was proud for not only getting on the "good readers" list but also having a read book list of pretty much all science and technology books. And encyclopedias, for those who remember where to get a database of information before there was "online" for the average consumer.Nowadays, you can sometimes find basic smartphones for as little as $5. You have to be quick to actually get them because (not surprisingly) that's more or less an impulse buy. I suspect the main reason is to get kids using smartphones so they'll buy better ones later on. For those who agree with the viewpoint that kids are getting smartphones too early, you could say that the coiners who buy cheap smartphones to build mining clusters with are doing the kids a favor.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 05:51:48 am
content: Technology and culture shifts may change the methods, but it doesn't have that much to do with maturity. Every generation has socially inept people. It's just a matter of time and experience. As a child you only have direct contact with 3-4 generations, including your own, in most cases. As a senior citizen you've been exposed to 7 or 8 and if you still have your mind and memory, you can see the patterns that repeat. A common complaint is that another generation (in either direction) does things differently than your own generation. Sometimes it's a valid concern, but more often its a case of not keeping an open mind about others.

author: ANTALIFE
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 06:00:19 am
content: As others have said, that's just the way the technological development cookie crumbles.The invention of news papers/radio/tv was met with similar thoughts too

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 08:59:54 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 15, 2018, 03:01:34 amFunny you mentioned pencilhttps://nypost.com/2018/03/01/smartphone-addicted-kids-cant-hold-pencils-anymore/In fact I noticed this topic because one friends kid developed some behavioral issues seemingly related to heavy smartphone use, but on closer investigation it turned out that actual underlying "problem" was kid being too smart for age - was utterly bored at school and home - for nothing better to do "defaulted" to being glued to games and stuff. Now thatactual issueis identified instead of "tech ban" he is offered some more challenging learning opportunities etc and situation is much better because kid now has better to do.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 09:14:42 am
content: Pencil? Pfft, I use a fountain pen for taking maths notes.I actually can't stand pencil as I have a bit of a firm grip on my writing implements. I would immediately break any mechanical pencil, and I just tend to like the smooth flow of pens to pencils. For situations where erasing is needed (like a test) I use Pilot's Frixion erasable thermal pens which honestly erase better than most pencils I've used.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 09:37:21 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 15, 2018, 03:28:31 amSo, it doesn't matter to let anyone manipulate an atomic weapon, as long he/she has access to the internet ?It is stupid to memorize complicated formulas, but the concepts should be learned.It is very different to have once learned the Lagrange theorem and then apply it, although you have long forgotten the demonstration, that merely finding it in the index of a mathematics book.My concern is about "to internalize" the knowledge

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 11:03:54 am
content: Quote from: ferdieCX on March 15, 2018, 09:37:21 amDo you really think that anyone, anywhere "manipulates" atomic weapons without the manual open in front of them? And probably with an armed guard who shoots them if they don't follow the printed procedure exactly.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 11:21:45 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 15, 2018, 11:03:54 amWell, there's this guy whose name rhymes with Ronald Dump who has a reputation for not reading much and has access to nuclear launch codes. Launching counts as manipulating, right? I wish I was being as sarcastic as you are.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 11:47:35 am
content: I think the issue is passive entertainment vs doing something yourself.My stepson 13, lies hours on his bed watching netflix, youtube etc. this can be compared at how we used to watch tv. We had rules at first but it just don't work, indeed parents vs non-parents who have no clue how difficult it is.The problem I have is that it is passive, They don't do anything, they don't make mistakes ergo they learn nothing.I tried my best with teaching him soldering and some woodworkng but he just lkes to watch me do itSo yeah I am a bit worried about the near future, the addictiveness of devices and software can ruin a generation.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 11:56:02 am
content: It was said computers could ruin a generation. TV too. Each generation has it's projected pitfalls, but they rarely turn out to be the ends of the world some people make them out to be.It's not to say don't be cautious, but it's to say don't be worried.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 01:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on March 15, 2018, 11:21:45 amI wasn't being sarcastic, just reacting to hyperbole with a comparatively straight answer. It was the previous poster who went from a harmless Einstein quote to someone "manipulating" nuclear weapons by looking it up on the Internet. Trust me, you'd know if I was being sarcastic.And if you want a rhyming name, why not go with Drumpf, his family's originalimmigrantname; yes, the irony is not lost on the world.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 01:49:42 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on March 15, 2018, 11:03:54 amOf course not. I don't think either, that anyone will be allowed to do any really serious just by looking at it in a spreading leaflet.By the way of an exaggerate example, I just try to point to the difference between something that was really learned, an something that was only looked at.I haven't tried to be offensive.To demonstrate something by presenting first an absurd thesis and showing why it doesn't work, is a valid mathematical procedure.Each year, at the beginning of the electronics course, the students present oft laboratory reports that are just copy and paste from internet. There was even one, who left the hyperlinks. Another one, talking about the Ohm law, left a reference to Maxwell equations.They are all 18 years or older. Only when they learn, that I check the internet to control that, they start to at least reorder the text. I try to avoid starting to accept only handwritten reports, like other colleagues already do.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 02:12:13 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on March 15, 2018, 11:47:35 amWhen I was 13 I lay around on my bed reading books and listening to music. Since then I've built muscles, build electronics, built companies, built guitars, built friendships, built memories, done much else besides and made a lot of mistakes along the way. Most 13 year old boys go through a laying on their bed doing "nothing*" stage, it doesn't mean that is the pattern for the rest of their lives.What follows is general, I'm not suggesting that you evidence need for this advice.There seems to be something magical that happens to a good proportion of people (but not all) when they become parents - they forget what it was like to be a kid and suddenly turn into their own parents overnight. Whenever you're having problems with a kid, stop, turn the clock back, and remember what it was like for you and your friends at that stage in your life. Only once you've done that do you stand a chance of getting a grip on the situation.Another magical transformation that takes place for many on entering parenthood is the sudden belief that only otherparentscan understand what it's all about and non-parents opinions are suddenly valueless. It ain't true. Some of the best parenting advice I've heard came from non-parents. Non-parents were once children, they have observed their own and other families, in fact they have exactly the same life experiences that parents had, right up until the moment they became parents and suddenly, transcendentally, acquired parenting knowledge. Anybody with empathy and observation skills can see what it's like to be a parent, to imply otherwise is to belittle half the human race.Beyond a certain age "rules" almost never work, where there are rules they will be broken, or technicalities will be found that allow them to be circumvented especially if they are perceived as arbitrary. (You know you're making an arbitrary rule when "because I said so" is the best argument you can put forward to support the rule.) On the other hand "agreements" work, as long as they are actually agreed upon by both sides, not non-negotiable 'agreements' like a shrink-wrap licence or a EULA. Rules are best reserved for truly non-negotiable things such as basic morality and "don't set fire to the house". Although not a Bible-Basher myself I have a fondness for Paul's pronouncement from his letter to the Corinthians "the [letter of the] law kills, but the spirit gives life", it has a ring of truth to it.We tend to forget that that, for all practical purposes, we are tyrants to our children. I mean the term literally - there is no route of appeal for our decisions. In adult life if the rule maker is wrong, there are courts, tribunals and so on - unless you live in a tyranny. Where parenthood differs from tyranny is that there is an end date on it, on a given birthday a kid doesn't have to do what you say any more. Beyond that date you are only left with the power to persuade, as I can guarantee that all kids will need guidance after that magic date it's a good idea to get them (and you) used to the power of reasoned persuasion before that day comes.Sorry, that got a little long.* This is a parent's "nothing", the kid usually doesn't see it that way.

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 05:11:29 pm
content: Quote from: Beamin on March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 amNot necessarily.Quote from: Beamin on March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 amOh my. I see a lot of kids of friends who are emotionally mature yet have smartphones. They're more confident and I can't recall my peers back then having confidence. Just my experienceIs there data to support it.Quote from: Beamin on March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 amYou googled that.20p bet you're not conversant in much other neuroanatomy.Quote from: Beamin on March 14, 2018, 11:37:20 amOh, I see now, this is a rant about pesky kids.So 80s children now find work fun?Does the data on workplace-stress , depression and anxiety corroborate that?You know what was instant gratification? Going to a shop instead of waiting for a courier and clicking refresh on tracking every six hours.Getting clothes that fit because one tried them on in a shop.I would have loved there being the web, mobile devices that could access the web when I was at university. Less so algorithms to check work against other student's work because we helped each other out.I have a Nokia 100 but then I think I've had too much experience of face-to-face and people(and places and things) that I never call anyone so little point in a dear one. One doesn't have to look at it all the time. It has about a fortnight's battery so I can look for it every week or so.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2018, 07:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: CerebrusI do hope so. The relevance to this thread is that the net has so much entertainment it will not stop.If you played records at sometime you got bored playing the same stuff over and over and went out.Kids tv shows in my youth on tv only wednesday and saturday afternoon.The contacts with friends go over apps instead of visiting eachother or playing together. But we have let go, so only rule left is to put it in the livingroom when sleeping because that was no succes, the tones woke him up and he had to see what was going on. He became very tired and the grades dropped so that was actually the way I like it bst, let him find out for himself the boundaries and consequences. You can tell kids not to play with matches, not my idea , i rather tell them how to safely play with matches and worst case let them burn themselves a bit we all had that experience.QuoteActually this skips a generation IMO, if you had parents that forbid something you are more lenient towards the subject.But yes becoming parent means you have other priorities. You have to raise your kid and that does not mean become his best friend. It means defining and upholding boundaries that the kid will test on and on.But each kid is unique, you can not say what works for this kid should work for that one.We have a few teachers in the family and the stories could fill many topics.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 01:28:38 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on March 15, 2018, 11:21:45 amYou realize the president can't launch nuclear weapons by himself, right? That's not how it works. He has "gold codes", not launch codes.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Codeshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_football

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 05:57:18 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 16, 2018, 01:28:38 amYou're quibbling over terms...the Gold Codes have been used to confirm that it's actually the President giving the order, and then his legal authority in the matter is unquestioned. Yes there's technically a human chain required to execute it (and the possible failure of people in that chain is the subject for many tv dramas), buteveryonein it is sworn to obey a legitimate order without questioning it. Bills were introduced into congress to change the first-strike authority right after the inauguration, but sadly they've died in committee:https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/669?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22hr+669%22%5D%7D&r=1

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 06:06:09 am
content: Presidential authority is not indestructable, we have checks and balances...Quote

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 06:21:38 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on March 16, 2018, 06:06:09 amWhile that's not as slow as getting Congress to pass a bill to change his authority, it's still WAY too slow to actually stop a process that's deliberately designed to function in mere minutes. There's no "wait for us to find those people and make a decision" clause in the Presidents authority to act.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 09:09:41 am
content: I would like to apologize, because my example has made this thread to drift.The name Einstein moved me, to give an even more exaggerated example of trying to do something with just a brief knowledge about it, obtained in the internet.The original example was: "If I can find in the index a of medicine book how brain surgery is performed, I know about it"I wish, I had just said " to operate a power plant "

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2018, 07:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: TwoOfFive on March 14, 2018, 02:21:48 pmI had almost no friends as an early teenager playing with this new thing the internet that none of the other kids had. I was growing isolated and depressed. Plus I was going trough puberty and looking not touching wasn't enough. Then I stopped playing with the internet had lots of friends and usually two girl friends. Now I have no interest in women but thats for another reason but conversely without the internet I would never had the courage to realize who I really was, instead thinking I had a unique mental problem not one of 1000 americans or humanbeings for that matter.