ECE Student setting up personal lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 08:21:43 pm
content: Hi everyone, first post here. Long time EEVBlog watcher. I am a student in EE at a university in the US. I may have grant funding for $2,000 to setup test gear for my electronics lab. I need to know though what would be most important to have in order to request as part of my grant. The idea is to get some of the essential gear that will improve my knowledge of the electronics and allow me to do more projects. I also would use this equipment well after graduation. At the top of my list is an oscilloscope. I was thinking of the Rigol DS1054Z. It seems to be a great balance between price and functionality. No use in getting a 2000 series Keysight to take up the entire budget. I was also thinking of the Rigol DP832 Power Supply. I have an HP supply but it is single output only and I have already needed more than one output for projects. Then the next things were just ideas of what might be useful for my projects.Unfortunately I'm only a second year in my classes so I don't have a lot of major classes yet to know what exactly I will be working with in the future. How often do people use 1) Function generator 2) DC load 3) Precision multimeter? Is it important to have a ground isolation device?Would an arbitrary function generator be useful (Rigol DG1022) ? I haven't really seen Dave use one in his videos so maybe this is a niche product. Another consideration I had was an electronic DC Load like the BK Precision 8540. I was also considering a precision multimeter (Rigol DM3058E) because my meter is only 6000 count and for some of my projects a few more decimal points would have been helpful.I also will likely need some cables to connect everything. If there is something I am not considering that you think would be helpful to have let me know! I have basic tools, wire, soldering gear, Fluke 83, and a small assortment of components.Thanks!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 09:18:53 pm
content: Are you putting together a list to get the grant, or just getting the grant?I would love to see a $2000 lab discussion. There is a $200 lab going on at Nuts and Bolts.See this for stuff that you might be missinghttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/from-no-parts-to-decent-stockpile-best-approach/There was a discussion somewhat like this before and the consensus was take the money and spend it on wine and women. I do not know what the OP did.Go through your schools EE labs and see what they use. Or get on YT and look at Cornell's labs. I think they just use a scope, power supply, multimeter, computer and stuff.They have a proto board lab but few students use it, but if I had a $2000 budget I would want one (about $400)http://www.globalspecialties.com/electronics-trainers/analog-a-digital-circuit-design-trainers/item/97-pb-503.htmlSeems like some of your picks are over the top for a student, like the electronic load.Everyone will agree with your scope pick.Suggest you go through these videos and look at what they do and use:https://www.youtube.com/user/ece4760/videos(one female student with an interesting project went on to become a professor at MIT)Hip displacement sensors.Here is a tour of the labCheck out Analog Discovery, some good deals for studentsI believe the consensus of this post will be to save your money and spend it as needed. This is the usual answer to these questions.If you like, PM me and send me the money and I will buy a lab and let you know how it goes

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2015, 10:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 03, 2015, 09:16:06 pmAnd some of these thingies that will hold your board in comfortable position for you when you're soldering. That really improved my soldering job more than any soldering station;)And something magnifying, eyesight degrades faster than people think and it can bring a big amount of frustration.

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 12:31:07 am
content: Thanks for the responses. It sounds like an electronic DC load is not really worthwhile so I will drop that. Great information to know. From the lab tour photos it looks like a function/signal generator is something good to have so the Rigol DG1022 should work good for that.I was looking at the Rigol scopes again and the DS1054Z is 50Mhz. If I wanted 100MHz it looks like I would have to upgrade to the DS1104Z-S which is significantly higher priced at just over 1,000. Would it be worth the money to get the 100MHz or is 50 good enough?Quote from: blueskull on October 03, 2015, 09:16:06 pmI picked up a third hand clip assembly to hold parts when soldering and it works great! For the $10 it certainly saves a lot of frustration.Quote from: ez24 on October 03, 2015, 09:18:53 pmI need a good list of the gear that will be necessary for my projects to put in the proposal to get the grant. So I won't be able to save money and use as needed its sort of an all at once kind of deal. I was going to focus on the bigger items that would be difficult to impossible to get as a student otherwise. Other smaller parts I can get here and there as I would normally.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 12:39:35 am
content: Another suggestion after a frustrating use of my Rigol 1054 (because it is complex):Visit the EE labs and buy what they use (or will use when you are in the class) and then master the tools. Buy an oscope training board.I think you would be a useful lab member if you were an expert on the test equipment. Possible to become a lab monitor.

author: karoru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 12:46:12 am
content: Quote from: ECEdesign on October 04, 2015, 12:31:07 amWhen you need one, you'll probably build something using junk power transistor, biggest heatsink you have at hand and random opamp you've found in the "parts I'm scared to throw out because they may be useful one day, or at least my succesors will bury it with me" drawer.QuoteSo it's the usual academia "ask for as much stuff as it's possible, they will select random 1/3 of it, and next funding will come after 5 years, until then buck up and do your thing" - that changes the situation a bit;)

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 05:43:52 am
content: Quote from: ECEdesign on October 04, 2015, 12:31:07 amDo some searches on the forum using the Search link in the navigation menu (it's more powerful), not the search box. You'll find that you can get 100 MHz out of the 1054Z. Honing your searching skills will also serve you well here.Good luck on your grant and lab setup. Post photos when you're up and running.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 02:25:30 pm
content: 6 digit DMM? Holy cow, perhaps a 4.5 digit one does the trick too and you can even get two for a total of $100 if you're looking around a little (e.g. UNI-T 61E with RS232 or USB). There is no reason to blow the budget on a 34461A and then have nothing to use it on.Your scope and power supply choices sound reasonable, don't go berserk on the numbers. From what I hear and see, the function generator in the Rigol scope costs more than something used from ebay. Ultra fancy stuff is really not necessary, you may go cheap:eBay auction: #361398382940or used old HP gear:eBay auction: #181888793528. Of course being able to control your instrument is a feature that I would recommend but it comes with higher cost.The DS1XX4Z-S seems to have 200 MSa/s and 16 kpts memory for the waveform generator compared to 100 MSa/s and 4 kpts memory for the DG1022. I think it's $100 difference between the two so perhaps someone else can comment on potential drawbacks the integrated generators have? (can you access all while doing scope measurements or does it block the scope while you change generator settings etc.)If you can get your hands on HP/Agilent system power supplies like the 6632B, that one can also sink current, i.e. act as load (but it is only a single channel, and big, and loud). They can usually be had for 100-200 and you can control them via RS232 or GPIB. The Rigol DP832/A is pretty nice, just saying there are options

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 02:31:14 pm
content: Actually....although I would not buy it since I have so much gear already, what about the National Instruments VirtualBench?http://www.ni.com/virtualbench/specifications/It costs 2k USD and has a 100 MHz MSO (16+2 CH),5.5 digit DMM, triple PSU, function gen and digital I/O.Mixed-Signal OscilloscopeBandwidth 100 MHzChannels 2 analog, 34 digitalSampling Rate 1 GS/s (single channel), 500 MS/s/ch (dual channel)Waveform Measurements cursors, 22 automatic measurementsWaveform Math add, subtract, multiply, divide, FFTRecord Length 1 million samplesProtocol Analysis SPI, I2C, parallelFunction GeneratorMax Frequency 20 MHz (sine), 5 MHz (square)Channels 1Waveform Types sine, square, ramp, triangle, DCDigital MultimeterResolution 5 ½ digitsMeasurement Functions VDC, VAC, IDC, IAC, continuity, resistance, diodeMax Voltage 300 V max input voltageMax Current 10 A max input currentBasic Accuracy up to 0.015% VDCProgrammable DC Power SupplyChannels 3Voltage/Current (Ch1) 0 to +6 V/0 to 1 AVoltage/Current (Ch2) 0 to +25 V/0 to 0.5 AVoltage/Current (Ch3) 0 to -25 V/0 to 0.5 ADigital I/OChannels 8 (input or output)Logic Level 5 V compatible LVTTL input, 3.3 V LVTTL output

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 08:53:01 pm
content: Quote from: bitseeker on October 04, 2015, 05:43:52 amThanks for the tip sounds like its essentially the same hardware between the scopes. No use in spending the extra money! If all goes well I will post up some pics when I get a setup!Quote from: Neganur on October 04, 2015, 02:31:14 pmVery interesting piece of gear. There is something about all the knobs of a physical oscilloscope though. Not sure if I would want to control all of those devices from my iPad. I will give it some more thought though it is nice that its all one package.Quote from: ez24 on October 04, 2015, 12:39:35 amThis is in part why I chose the Rigol function gen and power supply since that is what is used in our labs. They use an Agilent MSO2000 scope which is definitely over my budget so the Rigol should work well. Hopefully they are fairly similar in use (obviously the Rigol isn't a mixed signal scope however). If I end up needing a logic analyzer I may just get one of those USB ones later on.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 09:21:01 pm
content: QuoteCan I ask "Who is they"?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2015, 09:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on October 04, 2015, 09:21:01 pmI asked my good friend Mr Holmes, of 221B Baker Street, and he informs me that "they" may be a University, perhaps in the colonies would you believe?. I couldn't argue, Sherlock always gets it right in my experience...

author: ECEdesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 12:43:53 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on October 04, 2015, 09:47:13 pmSherlock would be right.I think the only thing I really have to figure out is the multimeter. My Fluke 83 is a good meter but when I got it (on a great deal) I failed to realize that it is not a true RMS meter and is only 6000 count. I like the feature set the Keysight/Agilent U1272A but I have been reading about "glitches" with the meter on this forum. I like the idea of being able to do data logging and the price is pretty good for the features you get. I just don't want to regret not getting the Fluke 87 (or 289 for data logging). My thought was if I kept my 83 instead of selling it I could have it to use for continuity checks and to test against the Agilent if things seemed off. I could also get a Rigol bench meter which is about the same price for 5.5 digits. I think it would be more practical to have a handheld meter instead of being tied to the bench however. I guess they have done some firmware updates since Dave's original review so hopefully that has straightened some things out. If anyone has any comments on it I would be open to them!Thanks

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 02:48:25 am
content: I would put more money towards the scope and get a used Fluke 8810a (with ohms and rms options) or similar off eBay for the meter.For the power supply I would most definitely use current limited supplies, but again used ones off eBay can save you a fortune. If you don't mind analog meters that can save you even more, and who needs a digital readout when you can check it with a meter if you need any form of precision. You can get a dual or triple supply with analog meters for under $100. They usually have tracking as well for op amp circuits. Keep in mind you will probably want three or four supplies, as you may need a positive and negative for op amps, plus a 5v and or 3.3v or 12v, etc.Most real world circuits aren't going to be powered by a five digit accurate bench supply. They will get a range of inputs and need to be able to handle them. So normally an analog setting is just fine. Do make sure the current meter is separate from the voltmeter. Switching back and forth is a pain and leads to mistakes.But I would run your list by your instructors or upperclassmen before buying anything. Good luck in getting the grant.

author: rjeberhardt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 07, 2015, 01:53:43 pm
content: Before buying anything, consider carefully what sort of projects you want to undertake. Are you interested in microcontroller applications, fast DSPs, RF or Ham equipment, audio, microwave, etc.? The equipment requirements will vary widely.You could even start very basic and build your own gear - a good learning experience.Russell.