How to crimp - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 01:10:21 am
content: I've just had to buy another set of connectors and the crimp pins that go with it. I only have 1 or 2 crimping tools, so I need to be very careful not to kill the crimps.A vblog on crimping would be nice. How to do it. The tools. Using tools not designed for the pins.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 04:01:13 am
content: What connectors and tools do you have?Please keep in mind, that your question is far to broad, as there are a lot of different types of terminals, and they require specific tools (no "one size fits all"). Once you narrow it down, members may be better able to help, and there's also a good chance you can find a video already out there on youtube (try terms such as "insulated terminals", "open barrel terminals", and "ratcheting crimp tool" to get an idea of what's available on YT).

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 05:00:47 am
content: Not sure what kind of terminals you're looking to crimp, but 3M has a very basic video on crimping their Scotchlok terminals:http://www.digikey.com/videos/es/v/3M-Scotchlok-Terminals-Training/1646379504001

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 05:33:52 am
content: Quote from: FrankT on April 11, 2013, 01:10:21 amDon't use tools that aren't designed for the pins you're using - they'll just mangle the crimps. A properly made crimp is quite a precisely formed thing, and you don't have a hope if you're using a tool the wrong shape.Personally I often end up just soldering the wires to the terminals, then closing up the part that grips the insulation with a pair of pliers. It's not pretty, and purists will no doubt scoff, but it's reliable.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 05:39:08 am
content: Crimps are surprisingly complex bits of engineering. Each crimp is designed to work with a specific tool, that will bend the crimp by a specific amount.A typical crimp will both grip the bared wire to make an electrical connection and it will also grip the wire insulation to provide support. A well designed tool will line up the crimp with the jaws, stop you from pushing the wire too far into the crimp, then precisely bend shape and crush the crimp so it holds the wire in it.I saw a video on the Molex website about this some time ago, but I can't find it ATM.Neil

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 10:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 11, 2013, 05:33:52 amThis is the kind of information I was looking for. I just purchased some Hirose 2mm plugs and crimp pins (DF11 type). Mouser list the hand crimp tool for this at $651.32. That's not going happen! So I need to either make my existing tool work (generic, no brand, but works well with thesehttp://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=P5470), or as you suggest, hand solder and squeeze with pliers.Frank

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 10:34:52 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 11, 2013, 05:33:52 amSoldering stranded wires is a reliability issue if the wires are flexing or exposed to vibration. The solder will wick into the stranded wire and create a stiff patch. The wire will receive extra stress at the transition from the stiff part to the flexible part.Crimping after soldering is also a reliability issue, regardless of the wire type. Solder will undergo plastic deformation under pressure, releasing the crimp pressure and interfering with the connection.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 11:14:16 pm
content: I remember coming across something like this in the AUS/NZ wiring rules many years ago so I looked it upQuote

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 11, 2013, 11:51:59 pm
content: Quote from: FrankT on April 11, 2013, 10:25:52 pmYou don't need to spend anywhere near that much to get a good crimp tool. Even one that's equivalent can be had less expensively (hint: terminal makers do not make their crimp tools; they outsource, usually to an ODM).It's even possible to get a ratcheting version for ~$30USD or so (quality of the tool may not be the most wonderful, but it's better than soldering then mangling the terminal with a pair of pliers). Even top quality can be had at a far more reasonable price (frame for ~$50 - 100, and dies typically run ~$40 - 65USD for simple profiles, more for the more complex ones <worst I've seen is ~$200USD for a die, but is still cheaper than the standalone version offered from a terminal manufacturer>).Search the forum, and you'll find a few threads on these. Garage Journal Forums (http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/) is another good place to go IMHO (i.e. search for "ratcheting crimper" or "crimp vs. soldering").Quote from: FrankT on April 11, 2013, 10:25:52 pmYou just need an open barrel crimp tool (10 - 22AWG). Can you post a couple of pics of what you have for crimpers, or links to it?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 12:25:46 am
content: There's 4 things to keep in mind when crimping wires.Use the correct crimping tool for the crimp end.Use the correct crimp end for the wire gauge you haveDon't crimp it too hard. If you squeeze the hell out of it the stress in the metal will make it break easy.(Try some crimps at various pressures and see how hard it is too pull the wire out. It doesn't take a lot of force to make a strong crimp)If the crimp doesn't work quite right, for example the metal doesn't fold over perfectly, then Redo it! (even if it seems ok).If i'm worried about the crimp pulling out i will tin the wires first then crimp and put a little solder on the crimp. The solder will flow into the join really well.It's not really needed and takes longer, but it makes me feel better.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 12:41:40 am
content: I'm guessing you are using el cheapo crimpers bought from the likes of futurlec or jaycar or such.Do yourself a favour, throw them in the bin and get 'engineer' brand ones.http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa09e.htmlhttp://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa21e.htmlthere are quite a few resellers, you can Ignore amazon (for some reason they think Australia doesn't exist), ie wont ship to OZ.or you can get them from japan quite quicklyhttp://global.rakuten.com/en/store/monju/item/800-pa-21/

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:00:16 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 11, 2013, 11:51:59 pmThese are the two that I use at the moment. The first one, named "surplus.jpg", is the one I found in a surplus electronics store for $6. It crimps the ones I linked above pretty well - I mess up 1 in 10.The other pair, "jaycar.jpg", are sold by the local electronics store. I don't have much luck with them.

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:03:53 am
content: Quote from: notsob on April 12, 2013, 12:41:40 amYep. El cheapos. The problem is I can only every find cheap $20 ones or the $300+ ones.Quote from: notsob on April 12, 2013, 12:41:40 amBut shouldn't the Jaycar ones be better seeing they are "Pro's Kit" - as used by professionals?

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:12:06 am
content: Oh gosh didn't you look at the links I already posted, also once there click on the chart that shows which tool to use with which manufacturers connector. However do note that general purpose crimps tools are not the be all for everything. Sometimes you just have to use the manufacturers tool. So word to the wise, get some sample pins and test crimp them, if the crimps are crap, get a different tool or get a different connector.

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:14:28 am
content: Quote from: notsob on April 12, 2013, 02:12:06 amThanks, I'll invest in a new crimper.(Although I just realised I could have got IDC type connectors instead of crimp pin types. Doh!)

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:31:13 am
content: Quote from: FrankT on April 12, 2013, 02:14:28 amI would suggest getting a ratcheting type crimp tool that you can swap out dies. It's a less expensive way to go in the long run, and because of the ratcheting mechanism, you won't over or under crimp your terminals if it's used in the right profile and size.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 02:37:28 am
content: Quote from: FrankT on April 12, 2013, 02:14:28 amIDC / IDT type connectors can have their own issues. You need to make sure the cable size is within the range the connector accepts reliably.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 06:53:14 am
content: Quote from: alm on April 11, 2013, 10:34:52 pmAgreed, though I wasn't suggesting squashing the solder joint itself, only the tabs that grip the insulation. They often won't fit the connector housing unless they're bent over.In the absence of the correct crimp tool, I still believe that a soldering iron is a better alternative than the wrong crimp tool.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 07:38:35 am
content: I use mainly "pin header terminals". They go under various names, where I live they go mainly as goldpins, BLS, NDR or HU - just mention one of those names, and the seller will know what you want.Headers, sockets, crimp terminals:http://www.maritex.com.pl/en/shop/products/ggid/9327The tool that i use ishttp://www.maritex.com.pl/en/shop/productInfo/ggid/0/pid/3303/page/1/backurl/shop%2Fsearch%3Ffind%3Dn-ht213%26page%3D1Actually after some practice, I have maybe one failure every 15-20 crimps.IDC connectors I typically crimp using small machinist's vise. I have even tried to make some kind of vise-die for crimping IDC's, but never had much luck with that.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 07:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: poorchava on April 12, 2013, 07:38:35 amI use some parallel pliers to do the same job. I just take care and take it slow and it works pretty well.Neil

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 07:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 12, 2013, 06:53:14 amIn this instance, I can see where you're coming from, as it's more likely to have a better electrical contact than a crimp that didn't properly deform and weld the wire to the terminal.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 07:44:54 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 12, 2013, 06:53:14 amI agree. But I wouldn't claim that it's reliable.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 08:06:19 pm
content: I'm curious. What's your view on the reliability of simply soldering a wire into a plated hole in a PCB?I've often advocated the idea that the most reliable connector is no connector at all.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2013, 08:52:10 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on April 12, 2013, 08:06:19 pmUnder what kind of conditions?For example, if there isn't any vibration or sharp bends, and indoor use, it would be reliable.But add in say vibration, corrosion concerns, need to allow for quick disconnects, ... , additional steps or design changes would be necessary, depending on the specifics. And this is where terminals can offer an improvement in performance and reliability, as well as offer the potential of lower manufacturing costs.

author: metalphreak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2013, 06:15:06 am
content: http://www.gammods.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_16&products_id=6439If you're in Australia and need PA-21s, GAM Mods is the place to goPity he doesn't stock any of the other Engineer tools.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2013, 08:11:00 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 12, 2013, 08:52:10 pmI have worked in two industries. The first was military and connections there had to be done with a crimp and connector if the connection was to another unit (i.e was not a PCB modification). The second industry is test and measurement so I know quite a bit about IEC61010. That does allow a soldered joint as a connection, but only if the wire is restrained in some way - for example cable tied to the PCB.YoursNeil

author: FrankT
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 01:20:20 am
content: Thanks for all the advice.The postman just delivered my tools from rakuten (I got a PA-09 and a PA-20). (I'm still waiting for my module that uses the hirose connectors)I do like 2 step crimping method these tools use (crimp the wire, then crimp the insulation). I've always had problems using wires that have thick insulation. Either the wires are crimped and the insulation is crushed, or the insulation is crimped and the wires are loose.Frank

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2013, 06:22:18 am
content: Quote from: Neilm on April 13, 2013, 08:11:00 pmMost of my work experience with crimp terminals is also military based.