Lab Insurrance & Theft Prevention - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: BalticLab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2014, 05:23:56 pm
content: No matter how big or small your lab is, you probably have lots of precious gear sitting around. And no matter how large your wallet is or how inexpensive your gear is, you'd probably be upset if a fire burns it down or some bad person takes it from you. I'm curious how insurance covers this sort of hobby equipment in the various countries. In the US it seems that most insurances don't want to work with me at all under the headline "Renters Insurance" or "Homeowners Insurance". They insist the equipment is commercial in nature and since I (truthfully) admit that I have ad revenue from my blog, it's a deal killer. And the "Business Insurance" guys are not certain what to think of equipment worth more than the house just in one room. Haven;t gotten any carrier to want to work with me. Back in Europe it was no deal at all. The insurance carrier was "Provinzial". All they did was tag a few Euros a month more on my parents house insurance policy to cover my Rohde & Schwarz gear.I'd really like to hear if someone had similar problems and found a solution for this. And also interesting to know would be how it works for you in other countries.And while we're discussing this, Alarm Systems are probably right along the topic as well. I always wonder what an average neighbourhood burglar would think of modern lab equipment. Some things, like my LeCroy HDO4024, look like a all in one PC. Other things may look meaningless. Does anyone have experience with break-ins either at home or at work and can share some real world results?

author: theatrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2014, 05:31:03 pm
content: Have you tried listing it under an all-hazard personal article policy?

author: aroby
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2014, 05:54:54 pm
content: Have you tried the insurance companies that deal more with high value properties, artwork etc? Chubb and Firemans come to mind.Anthony

author: BalticLab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2014, 05:56:52 pm
content: Those two responses are great ideas! Since I am new to the US, I may be a little blind to what may be apparent to people like you who lived here for a while. But that's good, that's what Forums are for. I'll check into both options.

author: Fank1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2014, 10:28:43 pm
content: 45 cal. auto loader high capacity magazine.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2014, 11:08:07 pm
content: .45 and "hi-cap" don't go together well, unless you consider 12 rounds to be hi-cap.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 16, 2014, 11:26:20 pm
content: Quote from: KF5OBS on May 15, 2014, 05:23:56 pmI know that test gear turns in cash converters (a pawn shop chain) here in Australia.Likely the majority of it stolen. They probably wouldn't think to research the item on ebay and see what the going rate it, they just hock it for whatever they can get.I don't have contents insurance my for lab, but I'm thinking about getting some quotes.The only thing it would be good for though is a fire. Theft isn't really an issue in the office complex I work in. It's not impossible, but given the after hours swipe card access, regular security patrols, many dozens of offices to chose from on many levels, and no real history of office breakins in the area. So the odds are vanishingly small.I will have a 24/7 Dropcam soon with recording, but that doesn't stop anyone.If a fire did happen though, restocking my lab is probably the least of my worries. I could probably rebuild a useful lab and all the video gear for under $10K if it came to that.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2014, 11:34:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fank1 on May 16, 2014, 10:28:43 pmI keep a pistol grip 12 gauge scatter cannon close by. A mouse fart at the other end of the house will wake me up at night so not a chance if I'm home!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2014, 11:48:00 pm
content: Another approach...

author: Fingerpuppet
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 12:00:38 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on May 16, 2014, 11:34:18 pmI'm a proud National Rifle Association member, but I gotta say it guys. Gun owners are their own worst enemies in the court of puplic opinion. Dial the gun-slingin' bravado back off of eleven, please.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 12:11:55 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 16, 2014, 11:48:00 pmUntil you forget to flip the switch yourself.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 12:12:46 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 16, 2014, 11:48:00 pmUntil you you end up in jail for murder.Better to pay the insurance.I know someone that leaves $500 on the counter at home with a note to thieves to take the cash and go in peace. Haven't heard if that works or not...At work I used to mark my valuable gear with big red faulty tags, that worked a treat!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 12:14:12 am
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on May 17, 2014, 12:11:55 amThen that's just Darwin at work, I'm all for that!

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 01:03:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 17, 2014, 12:12:46 amHow do you know? Did you have an actual break-in? Or colleagues who wanted to use the gear on your bench?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 01:13:00 am
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on May 17, 2014, 01:03:57 amYes, I'm talking about gear being borrowed and often never returned. In big companies with endless corridors and labs and projects and people, this is a real problem.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 01:43:43 am
content: QuoteQuoteQuoteYou Americans and your guns... sheesh.. wimps. We Canadians use knives.. big ones.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 03:56:25 am
content: We Americans do knives as well...But guns are better.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:05:18 am
content: I do not get gun people. I won't ever.I would much rather that we, as a society, at least THINK about rehabilitation before we sensationalize killing someone who is in a shittier situation than we are in.Using a gun to defend your home is your right in most states of the USA. Maybe all. Fine. How the hell did we as AMERICANS get to a point where bragging about one's ability to kill an intruder has usurped the desire to figure out why people make choices that drive them to steal, and how to intervene to prevent that outcome? Why do we punish and not rehabilitate? Tens of thousands of prisoners in the US, and almost none get actual rehabilitation; they just get education from other inmates on legal loopholes, advice on more efficient crime techniques, and leads on more profitable crimes in general. Our judicial system is oriented towards exacting revenge on the guilty (and also many innocent) people, rather than giving them what they need to become productive citizens instead of tax burdens for us all.So if you're going to point a gun, point it at me. I believe in what is apparently the most UnAmerican belief of all; that we were created equal and that everyone deserves help to become a productive citizen, yes, even if they're over 18. So point that gun and shoot me, because I am going to believe in rehabilitation over revenge for the rest of my life. And so are all four of my children. And all of their children. And theirs. So you better choot this commie Rigby right now.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:07:42 am
content: Calm down, Dan Brown. 1st, not sure Dave wants a politics argument on here. 2nd, there's a lot of things you apparently don't know about American firearms legislation, judging by your post, so education is needed before a proper debate could be had. So there's that.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:08:51 am
content: By the way, the answer is renters/homeowners insurance. You get revenue from the ads on your site, not the equipment itself. You don't rent out the equipment or repair then resell it in a storefront. You use it as a hobby and you get ad revenue from the blog. That will assuage their concerns most likely.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:10:10 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on May 17, 2014, 04:07:42 amSo fucking educate me then, since you know everything. Also, you didn't counter any point I made.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:18:24 am
content: Ok, cool it. First, would you snap at someone if they told you you needed to be educated about some facet of electronics before embarking on a project? Probably not. If I had a comprehensive source for you I'd link it, but there aren't many comprehensive and unbiased reviews of US gun laws that I'm aware of. Second, you didn't make any points worth arguing with. You pointed out some of the flaws of our judicial / corrections system, which I wholeheartedly agree with. Then you went on an emotional rant telling people to shoot you if they disagree with you.I still don't know Dave's opinion on political debates on non-electronics or energy related subjects. I doubt he'd tolerate a religious debate, so I don't know his stance on a gun debate. That's up to him to decide. We're already wildly off-topic, though we already were before you joined the thread.Basically, I want to know what Dave's stance is regarding discussion on this topic; then if he doesn't mind maybe we can start a thread dedicated to that subject. But for now, you're getting all riled up over something that you should really approach in a calmer fashion.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:38:17 am
content: I would think that a little creative thinking about deterrents would yield good solutions. How about a button press digital pad lock? if you don't press the buttons in the right order, it won't turn on. The device is rendered useless if someone rips it off. How about manufacturers offering theft protection as a value add? Something along the lines of: if it gets ripped off, then they will sell you a replacement for the cost of just the hardware? If you have homeowners insurance, then that makes the process of getting brand new replacements that much easier. I know these ideas aren't fabulous. But, the problem is real and very f'king annoying. We need to throw some technology smarts at the problem.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:49:32 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on May 17, 2014, 04:18:24 amOur posts will get deleted if we're out of line.The "point a gun at me instead" is a short circuiting disarmament technique. Can't use a threat against me if I suggested it first. One can only meet my escalation and not exceed it. I've been in enough gun control "discussions" to know how quickly death threats come about. Removing the temptation to threaten me forces my ...opponent (can't think of a better term at the moment) to consider the other things I'm saying and argue those points, rather than just go straight to threats.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 05:15:45 am
content: Quote from: FrankenPC on May 17, 2014, 04:38:17 amShort term, I would say that insurance and physical security are the answer. Long term, just do a better job of parenting, as a society, and we simply won't have lots of thieves anymore.That last sentence may create vigorous objection in you, but consider the possibility that how one raises their children will stay with those children their entire lives. If one raises a child in an environment where taking without permission is not punished, and the reward of the taken item(s) not removed, that person will not see a lot of reason to obey property rights as an adult. My brother was one of these people, and after spending 1/2 of his life in prison by the age of 36, he finally got tired of it, or got good enough to not get caught. He told me that he considered any items he could reach without being handcuffed as fair game. That is, if he could get to something he wanted and get away with the item(s) without being arrested, that the current owner didn't really want it at all. He said that this is a common justification.My point is that people who are raised even halfway properly know better. If society just stepped up its parenting, theft would effectively disappear in a single generation, barring any apocolyptic scenarios which would make stealing necessary for survival, anyway. (The Yellowstone caldera scares the wizz out of me.)

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 05:24:33 am
content: The subject is NOT guns.I'd rather not lock the thread so get back on topic.

author: nihilism
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 05:56:22 am
content: Most of the home insurance policy's in Australia exclude or put limits on a lot of things, even computers and especially any portable electronic devices (laptops, tablets phones, etc). Some allow you to list specific items you want covered for a higher premium.I have a shed full of tools and around $20k worth of woodworking machines which are pretty much uninsured because of this. I'd need to speak to an insurance broker to get them insured, it's too complicated for the big insurance companies here to bother with.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 07:26:39 am
content: I really like cameras. In my experience most theft is related to persons working on the premises. Cameras are good for that sort of thing. I also had them installed over certain benches to monitor projects when at home. The last use is to make sure the premises are empty before entering an area (in case they bad guys are still there). As far as I'm concerned personal and staff safety first equipment second.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 10:25:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 16, 2014, 11:26:20 pmI tried to get my (mostly older) gear insurred but it was impossible. The insurrance companies require to have a maintenance contract for the newer gear and consider everything older than 5 years worthless. I got a bunch of good locks and most stuff is heavy anyway. I don't believe an alarm system does much good. Noboby bothers to go look what is going on and/or call the police. You could spend more on an alarm system which notifies a private security company but the thiefs will be long gone before they arrive. I did see an interesting device demonstrated though: a smoke cannon which fills a room with theater/disco smoke within seconds. If thieves can't see they can't steal and it takes a long time for the smoke to dissipate even with the windows open. They are not cheap though and consume quite a bit of power.BTW most of my older gear has been modified (enhanced) in some way so it is easy to recognize if someone would sell it. OTOH a couple of years ago a one of my power supplies got stolen at my employer. I tried looking for it on online market places but I never found it.A major problem over here is that the law assumes stolen stuff is covered by insurrance. If someone buys a stolen item for a reasonable price and could not suspect it was stolen it is his/hers and you can't claim it back.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 11:16:10 am
content: I think I can list most items on my household insurance - I've certainly done this with my computer workstation which I paid £2k for but which new would have cost £5k+ but I've not done this for my scope yet.I think theft is low risk where I live, the worse crime we've had recently is someone stealing the free range eggs that one of our neighbours sells outside his house with an honesty-box (some xx!!$$$ was turning up in a car and just nicking them!) Things like pedal bikes are much more likely to be nicked than electronics stuff which is hard to pass on.Fire perhaps is more of a hazard, but if my house burnt down I'd be more concerned about documents, photos, all my books as well as furniture plus the huge inconvenience of it all.The tricky part with electronics stuff is generally it is worth more than you pay for it - e.g. I spent ages finding a scope and got a 350MHz four channel one for a bit under £1500. If it disappeared and I wanted to replace it quickly I'd have to pay something like £3k+ to get a similar quality. The new scope would have much more memory and other features but there would be no easy option to acquire a replacement at £1500 say. The situation is even worse with old HP equipment say - if you get a good piece on e-bay for $1k you probably won't be able to find a replacement any time soon but a modern replacement might be more like $10k. Do you insure it for $1k or for $10k?On the whole I tend to follow the approach my first employers, GEC, used to take. When we went on trips to the States they didn't provide medical insurance they simply gave us a letter saying they would cover all medical expenses. Insurance companies make a profit so if you can afford to take the loss you're better off insuring yourself. I can't afford to replace my house so I insure it but though it would be painful I could probably gradually replace my electronics equipment so I'm not so concerned about the insurance, after all it is fun buying new equipment anyway!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 11:27:44 am
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on May 17, 2014, 04:18:24 amGuns debates ARE religious debates, and they are two of America's biggest problems. The third biggest problem is money in said politics.It's always remarkable to note that those who support guns, are also those who were born in a country that worships them. Just like religious people almost always believe the religion of the country they were born into.QuoteNope, no gun debates please, it simply won't end.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 11:32:08 am
content: I wouldn't both with actual stolen contents cover in my own lab, any cover I got would be a fixed amount in case of fire and/or water damage. Enough to keep me on my feet in a new rented lab with basic gear in the worst case scenario.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 02:22:46 pm
content: Here the police ask " Do you want us to investigate your armed robbery, burglary, housebreaking, theft out of motor vehicle, theft of motor vehicle, hijacking, robbery with aggravated assault, assault, murder, rape"I have had a few already. Does not help that the police are not well trained and often have difficulty writing a simple sentence if it does not fit in the learned form filling styles they have.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 02:51:31 pm
content: well i think for those in the US some properly made steel structured doors would be good start, thick walled box tube base in an outer shell and inside rectangle/honeycomb stucture over that a medium thickness metal plate covering the whole structure whichs must be made from a material which is hard to drill with conventional drills, proper hinges and locks, but ofcourse this cant be secured to drywalls.... nor wood. all of this covered with wood for astetics, apart from mechanical locks high holding force door magnets or deadbolt magets with a suitable entrace control system. pick the locks fine, but you wont get trough the magnetic locks unless hit with a truck, for the windows bars if you can stand the look of it. or some breakproof glass.some of those entrance doors in the US which can be seen on movies and on different sites which sells these and theft prevention devices are a joke those thin wood doors and the little metal braces which prevents it from opening without force, here is used for door rooms not for entrance, seen a little marketing video not long ago on youtube a small brass bracket was used to prevent the door from opening it was 1 part fixed to the floor the other part was a slide in piece from even thinner brass whichwont withstand the force if you kick the door in or using a crowbar, hinges and locks pops right out of the woodfor the insurance if they operate in similar manners like here they wont pay even third of the things value when you call them out to pay their parts of the contracts

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 03:38:13 pm
content: If you want physica security you need tall galvanised steel bar fence, razor wire on top ( and bottom, but here the bougainvillea hedge it replaced cover that pretty well with the spikes and barbs) with electric fence to slow down climbing over the top. then door with external security door ( not bought but made from steel tube, 10mm steel rod and steel plate) with solid wood door. Has decent locks ( not the 99c special you see in the hardware store, but proper commercial property locks from a commercial fittings specialist) and heavy steel burglar bars over every window, so that nothing larger than 10cm can get through even without glass. That last makes it Vervet monkey proof, as they cannot get through, and if the little ones come in they will be severely chastised then tossed out with a reinforced fear of humans.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:13:46 pm
content: Regarding thick doors: better don't use those. A thin door can be kicked in more easely by firefighters trying to resque you from your burning home.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:37:21 pm
content: No point in having a steel reinforced door unless the walls are made of reinforced concrete and the door frame properly fixed into it.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 04:54:32 pm
content: This is South Africa, you do your own fire pool.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 06:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on May 17, 2014, 04:37:21 pmordinary bricks do the same with long bars drilled into them to secure the door. but its mostly standard in most parts of the world but in america wood and drywall has its place mostly which wont stand a chance support 200-400kg of steel from falling out from its placeas for the fireman cant get in, well be it. install a fire supression system but the thief wont get in too, or coat everything with fireproof paint etc. but i doubt atleast in my case the bricks which is the house is built from would burn or the concrete above and below. for electrical fires, i keep nothing crappy made thing switched on, or even plugged in if the mechanical switch only have 1 set of contacts.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 07:19:52 pm
content: I have see the result of a break in where there was a concrete brick wall and the security door was left securely locked, in its frame, on the ground.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 08:02:28 pm
content: Ash brick is softer than genuine fired clay brick. If you buy clinker brick you have to use either a diamond cutter or a sharp blade and 4lb hammer to cut them, and once in a wall they survive pretty much anything short of a truck hitting the wall. Regular clay fired brick survives almost as well. You know you have a strong wall when hanging a picture **REQUIRES** a SDS drill, as you otherwise bend a masonry nail or rapidly blunt a regular masonry drill bit in a regular hammer drill.Ash filled cinder block cuts with a standard builders trowel, some are so weak they break just picking them up. Mounting into them with a wall anchor is difficult because anything over 10kg needs a bracing plate to spread the load. Putting a wall mounted water cylinder means drilling through and putting a steel plate on the other side then plastering it closed after hanging the geyser. I have seen some which were weaker than a standard 12mm drywall wall.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 08:24:48 pm
content: this is not efficient against fire, but for robbers yesengrave your driving licence number, on every important lab gear.if the police find a thief's hidden cache, they will recognize a driver licence number

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2014, 08:34:05 pm
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on May 17, 2014, 08:24:48 pmEngraving does provide a means of ID, but most of the people buying stolen stuff don't care who's name is written on it. Here in the US as least, if the shitty criminal justice system would do their damn job and keep these people locked up, much of the problem would go away.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 02:02:14 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on May 17, 2014, 08:34:05 pmA very large percentage of thieves pawn their loot. Pawn shops take their information, as they do, then call the police. My employer has had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scopes pawned as "digital TVs" and gotten them back within 4 hours.Jail is not meant to house a criminal indefinitely, except in specific circumstances; jail is supposed to convince those within to stop committing crimes. It does nothing of the kind. Personally, I believe that jail should not be used to segregate or separate criminals, but to rehabilitate them with the intention of release, for most. Other countries focus on rehabilitation and accordingly have very, very low crime rates, and nearly zero repeat offenders. I'd like to see that in the US.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 04:37:33 am
content: I just got a quote for business contents insurance from Allianz$30/month for $50,000 "material damage" contents insurance, $500 excess.That includes flood (presumably fire in another part of the building and my lab gets soaked by the sprinkers, or water mains break in the roof?)They also want $43/month for $10M public liability insurance, and it seems you have to take both.Quote

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 04:46:34 am
content: Flood insurance is often just that: only for natural flooding events or storm surges. A safe bet in most parts of Australia. Sprinklers or a water mains break would probably fall under something like "water damage".In New Orleans, after Katrina, thousands of people had their hurricane insurance denied, on the grounds that the damage was actually due to "flooding" from the levee breaks or storm surge.I trust insurance brokers less than used car salesmen.

author: electrolux
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 01:58:10 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 16, 2014, 11:26:20 pmwe've got cash converters here in the UK. Yeah I know it's a useless quote, but hey.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 02:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 18, 2014, 04:37:33 amIn the UK, from what I remember when running a small company, businesses legally have to have public liability insurance so insurance packages aimed at business would probably automatically include it. In fact I think we were legally obliged to display a certificate on the wall or maybe I'm confusing this with employer insurance.

author: Kohanbash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 04:55:12 pm
content: HiIf you put the gear you have on the home insurance policy form where it asks what you have, why would it not be covered (especially if you have proof/pictures that you have the said gear)?If the total cost is in excess of your home owners policy you can typically get an umbrella policy to cover extras.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2014, 07:21:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 18, 2014, 04:37:33 amBe sure to go over the fine print! I've seen insurance fineprint which basically rules out any coverage... Sometimes the fineprint is written is such an obfusticated way it is impossible to figure out what it means exactly. To me such texts mean: NEXT!

author: BalticLab
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 01:06:55 am
content: Allianz is a good insurance, Dave. My parents did many things through them in Europe. Had plenty of claims, never had a problem. But it seems that insurance companies are rather sneaky with their fine print. I remember some home insurance in Europe covering "natural water" (Rain, Flood, etc.) but not "Tap Water" (Bath Tub / Toilet going crazy, etc.) . So I remember that our fire department got a very angry call once from a restaurant owner. His roof was on fire, we put it out and soaked just about anything in thousands of liters of water. The insurance was willing to pay for the fire damage, but not for the water damage. So he would have been better of if we would have burned it down. Odd thing happened: After the place was cleared for "renovation", the rest of the house caught fire. Go figure!Gun reference deleted

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 10:27:55 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 18, 2014, 07:21:28 pmWhich is almost why it's pointless to read them.Any insurance company can try and screw you over based on interpretations of the disclosure statements.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 10:30:12 am
content: Got a quote from the NRMA for the same thing. $5M product & public liability, and $50K coverage for contents.Was just under $60/month. Much better than Allianz. But I haven't read the PDS's yet.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 11:51:58 am
content: The small printMany have this scenario written in the small print:You think your contents is covered for up to 50K and you will live with any loss above that.i.e. 50K will get you back up an running again.But, if you have a claim and they decide your contents are worth 100K, they will only payout 25K. In their eyes you have only insured your contents to 50% of their value.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 11:55:41 am
content: Quote from: Towger on May 19, 2014, 11:51:58 amHow do they know if your contents are a charred mess?The whole point of complete disaster "contents" insurance is that it is the value you are insuring everything for, you pick the value, not them. Like agreed value insurance for a car instead of "market value".

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 12:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 19, 2014, 11:55:41 amChanges are it will not be charred mess, but water and/or smoke damage. Your lab in in a modern building and there is not much in it to burn. Plus the equipment is available for all to see on the internet and insurance companies will investigate before parting with their money...What I am not too sure is how they will value some of the expensive kit you get for free

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 12:43:09 pm
content: For those interested:http://www.nrma.com.au/sites/default/files/NRMA-Documents/nrma-business-business-policy.pdfI suspect it's not worth anyone's time reading such things unless you need something quite specific, you either have insurance or you don't, and you takes'ya'chances either way. I doubt there is much difference between the policies of providers.

author: Fank1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2014, 11:22:57 pm
content: I had the misfortune of having my house catch fire about 8 years ago.State Farm had me a check for the entire loss in 2 weeks.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 12:12:52 am
content: QuoteDon't have a lab so it can never be stolen,

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 01:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fank1 on May 19, 2014, 11:22:57 pmI used to work for State Farm as a J2EE developer and development mentor. I'm glad to hear you had a good experience. We spent a hell of a lot of time creating tools for the agents so they can get you on your feet ASAP after a disaster.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2014, 06:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: Rigby on May 20, 2014, 01:05:42 pmStatefarm customer for 15+ years, nothing but good to say myself.

author: Sparks55
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 04:26:28 am
content: Quote from: Fank1 on May 19, 2014, 11:22:57 pmThats an awesome result, it's nice when things just simply work out