looking for a good digital multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 09:03:31 pm
content: My name is Justin and new to the forum. I'm here to learn about digital multimeter and proper use of one.I'm looking for a good, accurate budget multimeter. I am planning on using it for measuring of batteries and around the house. Any recommendation would be appreciated. Thanks!

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 09:32:54 pm
content: Hi JustinWecome to the forum. Sorry but you are going to get LOTS of contradicting viewsMy advice is to look at Amprobe AM500 or 510. Not very well featured or great specifations BUT a very safe meter for the price, since you specified "around the house" that means at some piont you will measure mains volts and for this you MUST use a safe meter. Amprobe is in the same group if companies as Fluke so produce safe meters.The Bryman 235 (or any Bryman) is also safe but much more costly.The UT61E is very variable in terms of safety. The ones you get from Europe are safe but make sure it is UL certified. Most come from far east and may or may not be safe. I got mine from far east and it is NOT safe.You can get moderatly priced Fluke from ebay. The 110 series are electrician meters (lack uA and mV) and not that great for electronics. The 20, 70, 80, 170 or 200 series are good for electronics. There is also far east version Flukes (15+ or 17+)Edit: for how to use dmm, there lots of youtube videos. I do not think Dave has done a basic how to but he has done some advanced stuff like safety, shoot outs, tear downs, gotya and how they work.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 09:49:51 pm
content: I second the Amprobe AM-510. You mention you want a general purpose meter around the house as well. AM-510 has some nifty features and it's not bad safety wise.Fluke 101 (off ebay) is another option. It's a small pocket multimeter, but it lacks some features of other full featured DMMs. Great build quality and safety however.If you're looking to get into electronics. I would get one of the above mentioned meters and the Uni-T UT61-E (it's useful to have 2 meters) for low voltage electronics work. UT61-E has a nice resolution and electronics features, but safety wise (American version) is not the best.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:18:03 pm
content: Uni-t UT139C ? This seems to be better safety-wise?

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:25:06 pm
content: Thanks for the replies guys so far!I was at a local hardware store and they had a Klein Tool MM600. Is it a good meter? It's a CAT IIII 600V. I don't know anything about these specs. Total newbie

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:34:46 pm
content: Klein Tools MM600 is safe and fine for light household work.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:41:08 pm
content: I do not know about Klein Tools myself.Found this thread on the one you foundhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/klein-tools-mm2000-multi-meter-review/] https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/klein-tools-mm2000-multi-meter-review/Sadly the photos of the inside do not appear.The gist if the thread is that it is ok

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:44:46 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 10:25:06 pmThe Klein might be a rebadge of another meter. I don't have time to research and read manual, but looking at the picture, I think the meter defaults to ACV when you turn it on. So if you measure a lot of DCV, you have to turn it on, press the orange select button to get DCV. This could be annoying?Some of Klein's multimeters are Made in the USA if that matters to you.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 10:46:03 pm
content: Klein Tools meters are good quality, conceived in-house, with Intertek listing (CAT IV 600V).They own 50% of UEi, which has a connection to Finest in Korea.Notice MM600 Rev4 on the PCB.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:12:58 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 25, 2017, 10:46:03 pmI don't know what you mean by Rev4 on the PCB.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:21:06 pm
content: Is it worth buying a multimeter if it can't be calibrated?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:43:14 pm
content: It's not going to need calibration in a long while, if ever (1% accuracy DCV). It can be calibrated, but calibration is expensive.You don't need to worry about calibration, unless you're going to do some serious troubleshooting, which seems to be out of reach for you right now.Every time the printed circuit board is modified by the manufacturer, the silkscreen will indicate the latest revision.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:00:24 am
content: I called Klein Tools and they told me none of there multimeter can be calibrated. If it does it will be covered under there warranty. In reply #10, can you see anything in the picture that could be used to calibrate the meter?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:23:58 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 11:21:06 pmYes, it is perfectly fine to buy such a meter. Even in industrial settings, meters rarely get adjusted after purchase. They just get tested regularly and a report is made of how they compare to a standard.Better quality meters will stay on spec and will never need adjustment unless you are really fussy.Cheap meters can sometimes be adjusted by means of potentiometers if you open the case and use a small screwdriver, but this is only sensible if you have a good reference to compare to (and if you know what and how to adjust).Basically, the answer is what was said above. Buy a reasonable quality meter, trust the factory calibration, and don't worry about it. Even if the meter drifts a bit, the accuracy will still be good enough for what you need.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:28:04 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 11:21:06 pmYou need some fairly specialized equipment to be able to re-calibrate a multimeter yourself. And sending a multimeter in for calibration is likely going to cost more than the meter itself.Having multiple meters is always a good idea (so that you can also double check your readings).

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:36:48 am
content: Is the MM600 qualify as a quality multimeter or should I keep looking? Is the UNI-T UT61E a better meter? The only reason I mention the Klein is I can get it local.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:12:16 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 26, 2017, 12:36:48 amI can vouch for Klein's ruggedness, quality and independent certification. The MM600 is a 4000 count averaging meter that is still useful for electronics as it has micro amp range, a decent capacitance meter (up to 1000uF), frequency meter up to 500kHz, duty cycle, temperature measurement, etc. If you have a Home Depot close to you, there is even a promotion code for 15% off (here).The MM700 has two additional features: True RMS e Low Impedance mode. However this comes at a higher price.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:50:47 am
content: Quote from: daybyter on June 25, 2017, 10:18:03 pmI'll second this suggestion.It's safe enough to use on mains, has a decent set of features, and doesn't cost a mint (i.e. it can be had for ~$35 shipped on eBay).

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:55:58 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on June 26, 2017, 01:50:47 amI'll third it. I have one and I think it's a fine meter for the price.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:37:52 am
content: How would the Uni-t UT61E compare to the UT139C?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 04:18:30 am
content: Get the Klein you are looking at, or a UT-139C, or the Amprobes mentioned. Get what is most convenient to you from those choices. They are all reasonable quality and price. If you can spend $100 - $150 then consider Dave's BM235 or a BM257S.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 04:33:37 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on June 25, 2017, 09:32:54 pmVery true - it is like asking who is the best band player in the last 50 years. There will be more opinions than you can count.Some will disagree with my approach, but here is my opinion: As you are "learning how to use it" perhaps you should also consider spending as little as you can at this stage. After you get some good experience, you can then decide what suits you best in terms of how you use it and what feature you value most.Like when you know more about the question, such as when "best band player" refines to "best guitar player" then refines to "best classical guitar player" ...The more detail you know, the closer you are to getting the best answer.A cheap on like the DT830 is reasonably accurate (+-2%). I have a couple of DT830B, at $2 a piece. Just about as low as you can get but give you great value for the price. Kick around that for a few months and you will be able to refine your own questions and answers as to what is most important and how much the feature is worth to you. Armed with experience, you can choose one that is most suitable for you.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 08:09:31 am
content: There are dt830 versions with a continuity buzzer. I would spend a few cents more and get one of these, if you want to buy such a cheap meter.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 09:00:39 am
content: QuoteFrom the photo that someone posted of the MM600, yes it is a safe meter. Being able to get it locally is always more convenient so get thatQuoteSince you have stated that you are a beginner and have little experience - definitely do not get the DT830.It is NOT a safe meter for use on live mains (110V in our case).(To be clear, I have one of these. Have used it for years. It does the basics very well. Still use it on occasion BUT now I have better, and safer, meters - I tend to use those now. For a novice I would definitely advise them to be safe and use something that is going to give them maximum protection. It is OK as a 2nd backup meter)Stick to something that is going to keep you safe.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 09:22:54 am
content: FWIW, the dt830's are great in a toolbox (automotive), and they also make excellent & inexpensive panel meters.But as a beginner and occasionally using it on US mains, it's not safe. You don't need to take such a chance when there's decent DMM's for under $50.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 10:10:25 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 26, 2017, 12:00:24 amYou obviously haven't heard of closed case calibration. Not all DMMs have trim pots.Besides, the meter must have been calibrated and adjusted at production time, probably through the J10 connector, but it is not a sure thing.The MM6000 can be calibrated and hopefully adjusted too, contrary to what the Klein guy told you:

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 11:06:41 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 26, 2017, 10:10:25 amI never knew a multimeter could be calibrated until I did some reading on this forum,so a closed calibration I have to look it up to see what it is.Surprise the customer service at Klein Tools didn't anything about the calibration of there meters.I called Fluke about there multimeter and they said in my case a Metrology lab has to do any calibration.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 11:20:11 am
content: I looked up Amprobe 510 on Amazon and it comes in 2 way with NIST Certificate and no certificate. Is it worth the extra $59 for the certificate?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 11:44:13 am
content: The short answer is NO. Waste of money for personal use, especially at your level.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on June 26, 2017, 11:44:13 amI'll be using the meter for mostly battery, the occasional auto repair, and house outlets 110v hopefully never but, not much.Which one you think is a good choice (your opinion) Klein, Uni-t ut61e, or the Amprobe 510?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:43:21 pm
content: QuoteBoth the Klein and the Amprobe are safe without a doubt.The Klein has more features, the temperature can be useful.The Amprobe is more basic.The Uni-T - depends on where you get it from. You need to get the European version to be safe but then it makes it expensive.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:48:55 pm
content: I'm a hobbyist.... and own a cheapo Mastech DMM which has served me well for many many years. You don't need to spend $$$ on a DMM when you are starting out.You don't need fancy features... however, you should get an autoranging meter as otherwise it will drive you nuts.eg MASTECH MS8268

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:07:34 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on June 26, 2017, 12:43:21 pmThe Uni-t is coming Amazon and I think the meter is from China.By your reply, I think you would pick the Klein.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:09:46 pm
content: QuoteTrue BUT it must be a safe one!QuoteTrue.QuoteI disagree. Yes auto ranging is useful BUT sometimes it helps to have to think about what you are about to measure and therefore set the DMM up correctly.With auto ranging - it is all too easy just to turn on the meter and attempt to measureQuoteMastech are not know for their safety !!Some of the cheap meters, Mastech included, will be destroyed if you leave the meter on Ohms and measure Mains voltage.The Amprobe will definitely survive. The Klein should also survive.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:12:36 pm
content: I like to get people opinion and advice of the pros and cons, who has experience (in this case) multimeter. Its help me decide which one to go with, make, model and so on.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:15:44 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on June 26, 2017, 01:09:46 pmIn the UK we have lively electrons in our mains supply and I haven't been electrocuted yet. I would be interested in evidence to back up your assertion.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:21:02 pm
content: QuoteAs I said before, the one I got from China is definitely NOT safe to use on mains.I got it because I wanted to check it out for myself due to all the rave reviews if got from many on this forum.You get OTT accuracy (for a beginner) for a budget price.I would not recommend it as a first or main DMM for a beginner.Just be VERY careful with it when you use it to measure mains voltage. It should not blow up or anything normally.It may also be susceptible to static because none of the MOVs are fitted in the meter, I added them myself :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/varistormov-for-ut61e/As joeqsmith says - there is no guarantee that fitting them has made the meter any safer. Hopefully at very least it will protect it from static though.QuoteIf I was looking for my first DMM and got 'feature check list' fever - yes that is probably the one I would get.Bear in mind that I have 11 DMMs now. 3 are Uni-T and I know they may not be safe!I have 1 Fluke and 1 Agilent/Keysight which are both as safe as you can get!I have 2 Solartron/Schlumberger 6.5 digit DMM - expensive version of the UT61E- why do I need 6.5 digit - because I can (I am turning into a volt nut)

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:24:24 pm
content: For what you want every meter is usable. Forget calibration, it makes a meter not better. Calibration is comparing the meter against a standard and writing down the results. So then you know that you meter shows 5,00004V when you measure 5,00000V Great, and now the best partThe specs of real meters are given for an amount of time like a value for 24 hours, a month and a year. Besides that there are other factors like temperature, humidity and pressure that will cause deviation.And you still do not know a thing. Time will tell but only if you calibrate it regular. Calibration is about confidence and history.If I buy a 10 dollar meter, adjust and calibrate it at 25 degrees C spot on, I use it a month, drop it some times and calibrate it again after a month at 15 degrees. I will get other results. If you do that with a Keysight of Fluke the result will often be (much) better. My Agilent came with a calibration rapport so I knew how it was set in the factory. But after 6 years of daily use it can be off a little or a lot. To know how much I must calibrate it (without adjusting) regularly. (I do that but I have my own cal lab)But most important, what will happen if you measure a wallcontact to check if there is power and the meter shows 112V in stead of 110V. And what are the consequences if your battery is 12,05V instead of 12,1V etcSafety is important, for me too, I know what I' m doing but because I use it a lot there is more chance I make a mistake. You have a higher chance because you may not know always what you are doing. A good meter will survive most stupid faults, a cheappy can blow up in your hand. So I' m not a fanboy of cheap meters for beginners.That is like a car with bad brakes for a 90 year old granny . She does not drive much and not fast so she does not need good brakes ?To know what non- safe meters are: see the huge list somewhere here on the forum. Look at the videos from joe smith, also here on the forum active.Look the meter shootout videos from Dave to see what is important for you and how to recognize a bad meter

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 01:29:57 pm
content: Quotehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/mastech-ms8218-(0-03-multimeter)-quick-review/See Bored@Work response to the reviews :QuoteAlso check out :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-low-cost-multimeter-selection-for-a-new-meter-enthusiastjoeqsmith said :QuoteMy analogy is this:How many times have you crossed the road?Ever been run over ? NoDoes that mean you will NEVER be run over?Better to get a safe meter where it will protect you as well as having to 'look both ways before you cross', for those time where you forgot to look.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:07:32 pm
content: By the replies I narrow it down to the Klein or Amprobe.How can you tell which one is safer?Can you go by the CAT rating?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:14:37 pm
content: QuoteFrom your point of view BOTH are safe meters, both should have UL or some other accredited testing.Some companies print CAT ratings without every getting them testedMy advice : Choose on whether you want the extra features in the Klein OR whether the basic features of the Amprobe will do.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 02:23:52 pm
content: Thanks alot guys for the replies guys! The rest is up to me now.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 04:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: NivagSwerdna on June 26, 2017, 01:15:44 pmYou have been in cars many times and are still alive. I would be interested to see evidence to back up n assertion that people die in cars.See the fallacy? I hate, HATE, when people say "It hasn't happened to me therefore it doesn't happen."

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 04:36:41 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 26, 2017, 02:07:32 pmDon't sweat which is safer, they are close and those who are recommending these meters because of their safety are not going to lie about wat is safe. CAT ratings mean nothing unless the construction inside is correct and the meters are actually 3rd party tested for their ratings. The UT61E had ratings that it could not match and Uni-T had to redesign it and lower the CAT rating to actually have it pass standards needed to sell it in Germany.As you are a beginner, it is understandable that you would want opinions from those who have more experience. This forum is one of the best as far as it gets when it comes to good information and low BS. Just be aware when anyone tells you to not worry, especially when it comes to safety. Meters have safety ratings for a reason.Get the Klein, Amprobe, or the UT139C that has been mentioned and be happy that you have purchased something that is not junk, is built to a good standard of safety, and will read correctly when you need to know. The one benefit of the UT139C is that it is true RMS. If you don't know what that means don't worry about it but it is a nice feature to have. The other thing about having one multimeter, you are likely to try and measure something that would be potentially unsae with a POS thing like the 830 meters because "Oh, it's only just this once, what can happen?".Once you have your first meter then you will learn and understand more so that you can make decisions on what to buy for yourself.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:07:26 pm
content: QuoteI re-quote :QuoteLightages also saidQuoteYou are right UL accreditation cannot stop stupidity but it can save their life/limb if they do something stupid and the meter blows.If on the other hand, you are deliberately encouraging people to get dangerous meters so that the pool of good engineers remains constant and low in numbers (ie Darwinian evolution), well .............

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 06:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on June 26, 2017, 09:00:39 amYou are right, I was assuming that it would be used correctly and carefully. Sticking that into 110V with wrong settings (like measuring ohms) would be a bit of a fire-show risk.I blew the fuse in one of my DT830 measuring volts on ohms setting. The fuse was easy to replace. But 110V might have done more than just blowing the fuse. If you stick it into a (clothing) drier (220V) or HVAC air conditioners, it could really fry... RIP, population of your town just went down by at least one.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 07:22:28 pm
content: With the ut139c, do you still have to know if it's from China?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 07:36:08 pm
content: QuoteNo, I beleive the consensus on the forum is that this Uni-T meter is safe.

author: Ordinaryman1971
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 10:11:30 pm
content: What's your budged on the meter, do you want to spend $50, $100, $200?I think that's the main limitation here. There is a plethora of meters on the market, get the one you like, order online or get it in the store if you like a local warranty. With your purpose in mind whatever you choose will be fine. Avoid complete junk if you work on higher voltages. Learn how to use it. Use it to make money. Buy a better one. Rinse and repeat.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 11:24:12 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 26, 2017, 04:58:44 pmI think here on this forum are a large number of professionals. I can see their reservation on anything less than certified safe. After all, a company giving an employee something that could cause a stupid employee to go candle-mode could get sue out of the shirts on their collective backs - even if it was really Darwin's theory at work.With a little respect (for the potential danger), much danger can be avoided. Respect however is a rare commodity these days.

author: jordanp123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 11:55:09 pm
content: I've gotta vote for the UT139C, for a beginner and for the price point in my opinion it's an excellent meter.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 01:39:18 am
content: People, this is a beginner asking what is a good meter buy. Those who are recommending something with 830 in the model number are doing so based on your experience where to not use it. Do you not see the problem? "Experts" recommending a meter that needs experience to use safely to a beginner?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 01:58:30 am
content: The UT139C does look like a good choice for a first general purpose meter.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 09:54:11 am
content: QuoteYou are starting to get the point. When something DOES happen - you WANT the meter to give you as much protection as possible.The DT830 (and all the derivatives) is a 30, or more, year old design, with little to no thought about safe design.Modern designed meters have lots of design measures to make sure the user is safe, at the expense of destroying components in the meter.If you want to see the difference between safe meters and bad meters, watch Dave's video where he purposefully destroys DMMs :The unsafe meters just explode. The safe meter contains the explosion (all be it, with the Fluke77 you get a knob flying at you).If you want to see how catastrophic DMM explosion looks like (MJLorton's visit to Fluke Labs):About 6min30sec into the video, the Harbour freight explodes in a plasma fire ballThis is exactly what you want to be protected from !Yes, the test conditions are contrived. Yes, the exact conditions to blow the DMM up are so contrived that they are unlikely to happen.BUT you want to be protected from it IF it ever does happen.As my analogy goes :How many times have you corssed the road?Have you ever been run over?Does that mean you will never be run over?Edit: If you are new and are worried after seeing these videos, do not be. The point is - pick a safe meter and the meter will protect you (as much as it can).Pick a cheap non safe meter and you get no protection at all and then it is down to pure chance if/when you get hurt.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 11:31:47 am
content: i'm going to pick from the three mention before Uni-t, Amprobe, or Klein, Most people agreed that these would be safer, and a good to learn on.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 12:11:43 pm
content: No matter what meter you will buy: as a beginner stay away from mains, open tv sets or power supplies. You can learn a lot with a arduino starter kit or similar projects. Look for people, who have more experience. Ham radio clubs, hacker spaces, repair cafes, RC model clubs or vintage computer clubs are are places where you can meet such people as an example.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 06:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on June 27, 2017, 09:54:11 amI don't have the stats. I would guess, more people are killed riding bicycle than by exploding DMMs.I think selling ice blocks will soon be back in style in London since refrigerators may explode ending with massive deaths.There is always a trade off. You know, in the USA, seesaws, merry-go-rounds... all disappeared from playgrounds in the name of safety. Now all you can do in playgrounds is to light up a joint.Life is not safe. We all have to find our own middle ground between living like an agoraphobia victim at home or living at the nudist colony without the slightest "security blanket".

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 08:33:23 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 25, 2017, 10:35:08 pmWhich Keithleys are rebranded Flukes? Are you sure you don't mean the Tektronix bench meters?

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 09:06:13 pm
content: Is the 830b, Is like the Harbor Freight Cen-tech meter?While looking to see what the 830b look like the Innova 3320 pop up, how is it? I'm not interested in the 3320 but just wondering.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:12:14 pm
content: I was comparing the specs the Amprobe 510 CAT III 600VKlein MM600 CAT IV 600V CAT III 1000VWhat does this means? Is the Klein a little safer?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:13:11 pm
content: QuotePretty much yes. The Harbor Freight has an on/off switch but the DT830 does not, otherwise they are the same

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:29:53 pm
content: QuoteThe CAT ratings are a little tecnical, search for 'dmm cat rating' and read the explanation by Fluke if you really want to know the full details.They basicaly mean the the meter is guarentted up to the stated voltage. The CAT catagory (3 and 4) specify in what context the voltage applies to, 3 simply means 'after home fuse box' and 4 means before fuse box. DO NOT MEASURE ANYTHING BEFORE THE MIANS FUSEBOX UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!I would say no, the Klein is no more safer than the Amprobe. Both have been certified to their stated values. Would you want to measure something approaching 1K Volt? It is mianly a specification tick in the box thing.You will occaisionally ready here on the forum about some fool that tried to measure 1000s of volts and fried their dmm. It is rare to need to measure 100s of volts (other than mians), even then exercise extreme caution!Hope that helps.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 27, 2017, 10:12:14 pmIt is a bit too simple to say it is safer. You need to think of application. The higher the CAT rating, the higher the level of energy in a circuit it is approved to measure without permitting any harm to the user should something go wrong. Get any of the three mentioned and don't worry about their differences in CAT ratings too much.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:35:20 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 27, 2017, 10:12:14 pmYes. The specifications indicate this is the case.A few months ago a Brazilian entertainer tried to demonstrate how to use a DT830 on a 220V circuit. She was not properly trained and a mess up happened.This kinda gives an idea how serious an outlet incident can be.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 11:18:15 am
content: Quote from: Rick Law on June 26, 2017, 06:53:12 pmExactly.Always assume the worst IMHO (i.e. better safe than sorry IME). Hadn't seen the YTV previously, but damn ...(as in she's hot as all get out!).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 12:35:45 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 27, 2017, 10:12:14 pmCATIII 600V is rated safe for a 6kV pulse overload.CATIII 1000V / CAT IV 600V is rated for 8kV pulse overload.Both are more than enough (overkill actually) for basic home mains outlet use.The issues come with cheap meters that are not properly independently tested. e.g. UL / ETL listed.Anyone can legally claim CAT II/IV on their meter, but the good ones are independently tested.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 10:58:12 pm
content: Out of curiosity, does anybody knows approximately much a calibration of a DMM will cost?

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 12:33:49 am
content: https://www.custom-cal.com/Calibration_Price_List.aspx?kn=218

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 01:01:45 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 29, 2017, 12:38:00 amSo if you have cheap meters, perhaps you could calibrate them according to the calibrated expensive meter, but if there isn't one, then perhaps buying some 0.1% resistors and such?

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 01:06:11 am
content: Its seems like in my case it would be better just buying a new meter, instead of getting it calibrated.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 02:00:45 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 29, 2017, 01:06:11 amIf you purchase a meter for general utility and hobby purposes then there is never any purpose or value in getting it calibrated. It would be a complete waste of money. You simply buy the meter and use it. End of story.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 02:30:17 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 29, 2017, 01:06:11 amYou are overthinking the value of calibration. 99.9% of hobbyists use their meters without seeing a calibration throughout the meter's life.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 10:26:42 am
content: The only reason I ask about calibrating is when the meter gets old, been drop a lot/ abuse I know that the meter can be calibrated if I wanted to have it done.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 10:36:06 am
content: I called Klein Tools and talk to one of there tech support. He told me that for want I want it for the MM600 is a little overkill and recommend the MM400. He also said if I need any assistant to give him a call and he go over the meter on the phone telling me what everything does (like a little training course).

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 11:07:10 am
content: QuoteFirstly, there are 2 types of calibration :1. verify the meter is within specification, checked against cal standards2. Adjust meter to within specification, adjusted to the cal standardsType 1 is what most people get. It is important that meters are NOT adjusted but simply the Drift is logged so that the difference over time can be accounted for.The kind of drift we are talking about here is in the 10s of microVolt (0.00001V)The only time Type 2 happens is if a meter is repaired or has components changed that affect the calibration.All meters are calibrated by the manufacturer during production.As other have said, most home users never have their meters calibration checked - why because DMMs are so stable now a days and how many people care if the meter reads 0.00001 lower or higher.Rough abuse is NOT going to change a digitally stored calibration like it may have done with the old pot based calibrated meters.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 12:26:25 pm
content: Another word, get it and enjoy it and don't worry about the calibration.I was going to measure thing with and use my friend Fluke to see if there a difference in accuracy.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 02:19:52 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 29, 2017, 12:26:25 pmUnless both meters have the same accuracy specification such as this for example -±(2%+2)plus or minus 2% + 2 counts, or whatever, then they might not read the same even if botharecalibrated. Well, even if they have the same accuracy spec they might not read exactly the same because it's +/- X% ...

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:49:15 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on June 29, 2017, 02:19:52 pmI never thought about the meter specs.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 06:56:22 pm
content: If you measure the same thing with two different meters you will get two different results. Never do this if you have any kind of OCD tendencies. It will drive you nuts.

author: nharrer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 07:49:43 pm
content: Yes get something that's safe. Don't do it like me. For a long time I had only an old analog MM (yeah, with the needle moving) without test leads. So I stuck two paper clips in the ports and used alligator clips to measure. Occasionally also on 220V.Oh my. The stupid things you do when you are young.

author: Ordinaryman1971
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 08:21:53 pm
content: Just called call lab yesterday for Fluke 787 meter, calibration was about $100. So, here you are.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2017, 10:18:42 pm
content: The price on calibration, does it goes on features? More feature more money less feature less money or it doesn't matter.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 01:57:08 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/usa-calibration-club/?topicseen

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 11:47:55 am
content: Thanks a lot guys, it's much appreciated!

author: Unadan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 03:12:23 pm
content: So Klein MM400 vs Amprobe 510 - which is the better choice for a beginner?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 03:22:46 pm
content: QuoteHere we go again.....Both are suitable for a beginner. The Amprobe is more basic (lacks some features the Klein has).The Klein has features like temperature, capacitance and freq which a beginner may not have any use for at the beginning.These features are nice to have but not essential.Sometime the fature is not that great (on any meter) eg the capacitance measurement feature is very poor.(What do you expect - it tries to do everything so ends up being a compromised for everything)So your choice comes down to : Klein has more features but costs a little bit more ORAmprobe does all the essentials for a first DMM and is cheaper.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 07:05:02 pm
content: Does a meter that has more feature is not as accurate as a meter with less feature?

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 07:25:32 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 30, 2017, 07:05:02 pmI'm not any kind of expert when it comes to meters, but they usually have an accuracy table in the product description or documentation, and while it may be the case that some models with more features might be less accurate than some other with less features, I don't think that this is a general rule, especially since (usually) meters with more features are more expensive, at least from the same brand (although specially rugged, safer meters might have less features and be more expensive). So, being more expensive, they may have some space to get more accuracy as well.There is another parameter, called counts, which describes what can be displayed on the screen (e.g. 2000 counts, 4000 counts, 6000 counts, 9000 counts, and so on) but this is not the same as accuracy.Let's take some meter as an example (I know nothing about this specific meter):"True RMS Digital Multimeters UT139C"http://www.uni-trend.com/productsdetail_1147_901_901.htmlUnder "Technical Specifications" you can check the meter accuracy, for example:DC Voltage (V) 60mV/600mV/6V/60V/600V ±(0.5%+2)Where the +- (0.5% + 2) is saying how inaccurate the reading can be.If we look at a different meter and the same range, AN8001 (I guess about $12-15 range), we get this info:DC voltage: 600mV (+ 1.0%+10), 6V/60V/600V/1000V (+ 0.5%+3)So, at that range, the UNI-T should be more accurate. There are a lot of other ranges (it's a table, you can check it on the link), so this by itself, just one range, doesn't mean the meter is more accurate overall. Comparing all ranges would tell you a clearer story.So, to check accuracy of specific meters, you can compare the accuracy data specified. It's worth noting that accuracy hasnothingto do with safety, and some meters can be less safe for general use than others. People will generally recommend safer meters, even if they have less features and less accuracy for the same price, to beginners or any commercial work. Also there are some safety precautions, such as always using the correct range. E.g. if measuring voltage, select voltage and hook the probes in the right position on the multimeter (it's usually written/marked on the multimeter). I'm sure there are a lot of videos out there that explain what, why, and how (I'm just a newbie), as the proper use of a meter (any meter) will definitely be safer than just using it on random ranges, probe positions, and poking random stuff with the probes (including high voltage).

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 07:29:03 pm
content: QuoteNo, not really. The manufacturers will specify the meter accuracy and will make sure the meter meets it.Do not worry about the counts, you may or may not learn about them when you need.The features on the other hand might be pretty crappy, just added to make the meter look more attractive.Hope this helps

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 07:50:14 pm
content: When I was on the phone with the Klein Tools rep, he told the all the meters were tested on electric fences 10,000-50,000+ volts going through the fence. The person survived but the meter didn't and meter held together but it was well done, fried,smokey.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 08:07:14 pm
content: There's very little energy in an electric fence, for obvious reasons. Any meter that came apart under those conditions would be very worrying indeed.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 08:21:45 pm
content: There were trying to destroy the meter to see where its limits are. The electric fence they keep going higher with the volts 100,000 + volts then it got to the point of destroying it for fun.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 08:23:33 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 30, 2017, 08:14:02 pmMy point was that there is very little current behind the voltage in a fence driver. Sure it will kill the electronics, but it's not representitive of anything like a mains supply spike, where there's enough prospective fault current to blow a meter apart.The Klein rep was spinning a line, basically all he was saying that 10-50kV will kill there electronics - well of course it will (no suprise there), it says nothing about the meter holding up safely under serious fault situations.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2017, 09:19:10 pm
content: They did a lot more than just the electric fence. They tested on mains to but a lot of what he was saying was a little to technical for me to understand. The testing was done to each meter for there perspective field either a electrician or HVAC.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 12:57:24 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on June 30, 2017, 11:54:21 pmI'm going to use it for indoor use only 110/120 volt (for outlets) I'm not going to touch 220v no mains and Nimh and Lithium Ion battery volt checks. That about it until I learn a lot more.I would like to get a meter to learn on and a higher rating than I need to be safe and as I learn I won't need a better meter.Do you think the Klein is a quality meter or the Amprobe 510? If you have to choose which meter would you pick out of the two and your opinion on a good meter that not out the two. Fluke is probably overkill for what I'm using it for.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 01:53:52 am
content: I mentioned before that the UNI-T UT139C looks like a good choice.For what you need, there is no point over-thinking it. I've bought many inexpensive meters and all of them have worked fine.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 02:05:59 am
content: Quote from: IanB on July 01, 2017, 01:53:52 am+1FWIW, I've both expensive and inexpensive meters (i.e. from a UT139C to an Agilent/Keysight U1252B), and they each have their uses. Heck, I've even DT830 clones from Harbor Freight (i.e. automobile toolbox or used as panel meters).

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 09:14:41 am
content: QuoteBoth the Klein and Amprobe are good quality and safe DMMs. Both companies have their DMMs independantly tested and verified safe by external test laboratories.I could not find who Amprobe use. Klein use Nist.On top of that, after watching thisMany forum members have taken what they have learned and independantly reviewed the safety of many DMMs. It is because of this that we can assure you the the Amprobe and Klein are safe.A few forum members have Klein meter are say they are ok.Amprobe are a well known manufacturer of DMMs. They do the job, some like/love them others have niggleing complaints about them.I do not have either so I cannot comment other than they are both perfectly safe.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 09:41:57 am
content: The most important safety device is your brain. If that works, you will survive the use of any meter. ;-)

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 09:48:29 am
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 01, 2017, 09:14:41 am^^ This is the stuff that is important, it's independently tested. It says a lot more than the ramblings about fences etc. of some rep who doesn't really know what he's talking about (and to a professional, does more harm than good to their reputation.).

author: Karlo_Moharic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 10:39:38 am
content: Try FLuke 15b on ebay.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 01:36:09 pm
content: That was a great video explaining the internal of a DMM and how it works in reply #110.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 01:40:14 pm
content: Since the Klein and Amprobe are safe to use, its comes down to preference and I have to decide which one should I go with.

author: tigr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 03:08:16 pm
content: Amprobe37XR-A.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 10:11:24 pm
content: Does Uni-t and Amprobe have something in common, making things for each other?

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2017, 11:53:04 pm
content: Amprobe has meters made by Brymen, perhaps Uni-Trend, and by others. Extech has meters made by CEM, Brymen, and others. any brands are made by other companies. As far as I know, Amprobe does not actually manufacture digital multimeters.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:10:39 am
content: What is the difference between a meter that true-rms and one that don't?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:13:20 am
content: Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 02:10:39 amFluke: True RMS

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:24:44 am
content: Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 02:10:39 amIt has to do with how DMMs measure AC signals. True RMS will typically give you a more accurate reading when it comes to non perfect sine waves.w2aew does a really nice job at explaining this in detail:

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:27:00 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 02, 2017, 02:13:20 amAs soon as I posted this question I google trms and found that page on Fluke. I don't understand some of the information but I'm learning.Does true rms make a meter accurate compare to meter that doesn't have true rms?Is true rms is used in all setting like volts, amps, etc, or is it used in certain one?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:29:52 am
content: Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 02:27:00 amIt's used in all AC modes. So AC Volt and AC Amp modes. DC, continuity, resistance does not benefit from True RMS.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:34:19 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on July 02, 2017, 02:29:52 amSince I'm using the meter for 110/120 volts and measuring batteries Nimh 1.2v and Lithium Ion 3.7v will I benefit from a true-rms meter?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:38:09 am
content: It's only for AC voltage and AC current,very handy if repetitive AC waveforms are crap, and gives you a better picture of what's going onOtherwise the reading may be 10% off or more with a non TRMS meterIf your 120 volt power is decent quality and you just need a go-no go reading or comparison,a TRMS meter may not be worth the extra cash layout for you.Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 02:34:19 am

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:45:16 am
content: Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 02:34:19 amI'm not an expert when it comes to how meters work or even what True RMS is, but it's only going to matter with measuring AC. Batteries provide DC (Direct current) and in that case, it really doesn't matter.But, as for measuring 110/120 volts, you would get somewhat different/more accurate results with a True RMS meter.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 03:52:09 am
content: carnage:TRMS is nice to have when you get more advanced and understand its use. If you don't get a meter with TRMS right now, don't worry. You will likely be getting more than one meter and when you do it will be to fill in the functions you didn't get the first time or to add the capabilities you get when you want to measures two things at once.The UT139C is less than $50 and it is not a high price for a good basic meter, TRMS or not.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:00:41 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 02, 2017, 03:52:09 am+1(Got mine for ~$36 shipped).For disclosure, I've a 120,000 count GwInstek bench meter (8251A), a couple of 50,000 count meters (Agilent/Keysight U1252B & Brymen 857A), a Fluke 27/FM, and a Uni-T 139C (some DT830 clones from Harbor Freight as well).

author: GameProgrammer79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:58:32 am
content: I am too a old new bee.. recently I was searching for answer to the same question. What is a good multi meter when I am working on mostly 0-30V and 0-5A current. There are enticing models ex Uni-t ut139c or ut61e 22k count and TrueRMS which are available for $40-$60 range. So my logic tree is like belowIf ( you are a student and occasional hobbyist ) thendon't spend a lot of money go for a name brand.else ( if (you are sure you want that extra resolution and want to be precise to 0.05%) ) thenspend a bit and go for mid range Brymen / ExTech / CEM // and so onAn excellent example would be eevBlog re-badge Brymenelse ( if (money is not an objectand you can spend a few $1000s i.e. $600is )) thenyou have so many options..Fluke is definitely a very good brand to consider.. their meters will virtually last ages and can be found in prehistoric sites used by our ancestors ..Fluke 87v - $360ish, Brymen 869s $220ish, Extech 530 - $170ish, Extech 540 - $300ish, CEM DT (equivalent) $150sh there are so manyelsedo your research - budget -> requirement -> modelsBtw I have gone ahead and purchasedFluke 87v new for $370Extech EX540 - Ebay for $120Uni-t UT171B $180

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 12:01:07 pm
content: Quote from: kalel on July 02, 2017, 02:45:16 amIn my opinion, given the very small price difference between the models available in the marketplace today, a meter purchased new without True RMS does not make much sense.There are a few discussions on this forum about whar and how useful True RMS is.This linkcontains some articles about this, while further into the discussion (here) there is a bit of history.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 02:45:34 pm
content: I was browsing around looking at DMM and saw Greenlee DM-45. How is this one for a basic meter?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 05:56:52 pm
content: QuoteHere is a thread reviewing ithttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/dm-45-review/The summary is that it is not safe, does not have the input protection (MOVs and PTCs)

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 06:32:59 pm
content: Is the Greenlee 510A is a better model?The more I look at meter the they starting to look a lot like each other.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 06:47:42 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 02, 2017, 06:32:59 pmThat is a great meet that is made by Brymen. It is a re branded BM257S. The original Brymen is much less expensive but Greenlee warranties theirs for "life". IMHO the Brymen is the better buy and either is a big step up in quality over the other meters you have been looking at.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:07:56 pm
content: What about the Fluke 17B+?

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:19:15 pm
content: Quoteyes, perfectly safe if it is a genuine Fluke.Are they available in USA?Are they within your price range?The 15 and 17 were for Chinese market only. Fluke do not officially sell it out side of Asian market.Some companies import them because they are cheaper than domestic models.It is unclear whether Fluke will support them outside of China.Many hobbiests have bought them and are perfectly happy with them.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 07:25:47 pm
content: The Fluke is as is no warranty, no support. I found it on amazon.com and everything is in chinese no english, might need a translator. I'm not sure if it worth it because of the no support from Fluke.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 08:38:32 pm
content: When I called Fluke US they told me any outside of the US meter they have nothing to do with not even calibrating.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 09:47:27 pm
content: Another word a US meter bought in China will be covered but a China meter can't be service in the US.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 10:25:03 pm
content: With the fluke 17B+, buy at your own risk.Is the Fluke 17B+ better choice over the Greenlee 510A?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2017, 11:22:30 pm
content: If you're thinking about rolling with a legit -Made In China- Fluke distributed and supported by Fluke in many countries,consider getting one of the models 114, 115, 116, 117, and see which one suits your applications and pocketNicely made meters, easy to use, reliable with decent specs,a poor man's Fluke that gets the job done

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:01:33 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 02, 2017, 11:00:34 pmNo, absolutely not!First time purchasers do not modify meters. Apart from the required level of expertise being beyond someone with no background in electronics, any modifications you make completely invalidate any guarantees present in the original design for accuracy or robustness. And if you consider the meter so poor that it needs modifying to be acceptable, don't buy it!

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 12:12:27 am
content: Quote from: IanB on July 03, 2017, 12:01:33 amQuote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 09:03:31 pmModifying any meter puts OP at risk before he has a chance to learn anything

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 01:59:05 pm
content: I was looking at the eevblog multimeter and Amazon is out of stock. I can't find Brymen, not sure if there sold in the US. I thinking about going with the Greenlee 510A or the Fluke 17B+.I watching a video of the ut139c and the person was putting current through the meter that was rated under the manufacturer specs and the protection blew.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:52:55 pm
content: Franky, AKA iloveelectronics on the forums here, has an ebay store. He is very reliable and takes care of you like he is in the USA.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM257s-Digital-Multimeter-6000-count-Brand-New-Fluke-alternative-/200922627340

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:44:36 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 01:59:05 pmDo you have a link to that video?

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 07:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 03, 2017, 05:44:36 pmI don't know how to do link. If you go to google.com and type in ut139c you will see a video title evaluating low cost DVMs part 19b The Uni-t UT139C - You Tube uploaded by joe smith click on that.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 08:05:22 pm
content: carnage:You are overthinking this. So far you have recommendations for UT139C, Amprobe AM510, the Kleins that you have been looking at, Brymen BM257S or Greenlee version, and some others. Get one that fits your price range from these and be happy and learn. You are suffering from what is known as "analysis paralysis".

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 08:20:47 pm
content: I like to do a little research on things I buy. I don't want to buy something and regret it or I should of got the other one. Once I decide which one to buy I know I'm going to be happy with and no regret.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 08:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 08:20:47 pmYes, but any choice you make will have things you don't like after you have had it in your hands for a while. Reviews can go so far, but there is no substitute for owning and using something in order to learn about it. If you are struggling to make a choice, just put all your shortlisted meters side by side in a table and compare them feature by feature. Put a tick against the features you want and then buy the meter that has most ticks. Include things like build quality, warranty and battery life in the things you consider alongside accuracy and display resolution.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 09:01:18 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 07:40:41 pmYes, but remember that joe smith is deliberately stressing meters to the point of failure. In other words he is not being kind to them, he is trying to break them. You should not consider that many meters fail in his hands to be a big negative, that is not the point of his testing.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 03, 2017, 08:59:15 pmThis is exactly what I'm doing. I'm comparing the spec/ratings, features of all of the meter and trying to find one with the features I want. Hopefully its turn out right.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:26:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on July 03, 2017, 09:01:18 pmIn joe smith video, when the ut139c blew didn't he said that it blew under the rated spec and wasn't supposed to?I understand the concept of the video is to push the meter to there limit and to see how far over there rated spec there go before blewing.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:33:24 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 03, 2017, 09:31:07 pmI figure that I will get a decent meter so I won't have get a better one, or one with more feature. Once I learn I'll probably be like everyone one here with a collection of meter.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:35:47 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 10:33:24 pmI'm glad you realize this now. We all succumb to this sooner or later.

author: iamjanco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 10:50:26 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 03, 2017, 10:35:47 pmBelieve me, I know what you mean. My Centech (the P98674 Harbor Freight Mastech Spinoff) COM jack literally fell apart on me today and there was no saving it, though I did try. That said, I've been researching handhelds for a few weeks now, digging into the reviews, videos (I especially enjoy Joe's), etc., here and elsewhere, as well as the usual complaints. I opted for the Fluke 289 FVF, simply because it fits my bill... plastic screw threads, short battery life, leaking supercaps (though I believe Fluke addressed that one) and all, and just got off the phone with Steve at TE. Next up might be an MSO, but I'm still researching that one and currently have an old, still reliable 465.

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:00:52 pm
content: I thought, we are just talking about a 40 bucks dmm. He buys it, uses it and at some point move on to a better meter or will just lose interest in electronics. He's not supposed to marry the multimeter, or so...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:10:30 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 10:26:16 pmThose transient tests are not something a meter will normally see. I own some meters that I quite like, and no way would I allow them to be subjected to transient tests like that. I value them too much.You might consider it a bit like crash testing cars for safety. If your car is involved in a crash you would like to think you will come out of it alive, but that doesn't mean you will deliberately crash your car just to find out whether you get injured or not.Unless you are working on high energy circuits (you shouldnotbe), then the worst that is going to happen to your meter during an unexpected transient is that it will be damaged. In which case you recycle your $50 meter and get another one.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 11:53:26 pm
content: It's interesting to watch, see if the meter can handle the abuse or see the meter limits are.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 12:03:30 am
content: Quote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 09:03:31 pmThat was your original post ^^^. While I in no way discourage this thread from going to 25 pages (it's 7 now) you were simply asking for a meter "for measuring of batteries and around the house". I would suggest just getting one of the cheaper meters mentioned already and use it for awhile. When you get used to what it can do then start looking for a better one. But really, you have enough information to get one for what you were asking to do.But as I said, I'm not saying to stop asking questions, just get something and use it while asking more questions with one in your hands. It's time for action!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 05:15:15 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 04, 2017, 12:03:30 am+1Sitting in or taking a relevant course online (i.e. auditing a course with out having to shell out a single cent), might be of interest.

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 02:36:25 pm
content: I'm going to order the Fluke 17B+.Thanks alot guys for answering my questions, it's much appreciated!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 10:18:41 pm
content: That is a good choice. You won't be disappointed. Now, what will be your next meter? Sorry, couldn't resist....

author: carnage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 10:38:58 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on July 04, 2017, 10:18:41 pmI already thought about that one, UT61E. This way I'll have a low and higher count meter.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 10:37:03 am
content: Quote from: carnage on July 04, 2017, 10:38:58 pmNice.That said, I'd advise getting the U139C next (i.e. 4 DMM's in order to make multiple simultaneous measurements, such as 2x current & 2x voltage).Just a suggestion.

author: Aviator X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 12:01:21 pm
content: The search for a good digital multimeter has driven me insane. I had to take a step back and realize that at my level, they probably all work fairly well. If I need to upgrade later, then that will give me a second meter. One for the shop, one for the toolbox.This is the one I'm eyeing right now.https://www.adafruit.com/product/308

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 01:05:19 pm
content: QuoteHi, NOThere are safe meters and there arelots of cheap meters that are NOT safe. Pick meters that have been stated as safe (in no particular order):Klein MM600Amprobe AM500 or AM510Uni-t UT139CFluke 15b+ or Fluke 17B+

author: Aviator X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 02:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: MosherIV on July 05, 2017, 01:05:19 pmI'll heed your advice. I guess I've read too many sites stating that basic meters are fine. Safety is definitely a must around electronics. Thanks.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 03:16:50 pm
content: Well, it is and it isn't. Don't get me wrong; I love my Fluke 87V and Keithley 2015, 197, and 197A, and Keysight U1252B. They are my go-to tools for most situations, and for some, the Fluke and the Keysight are the only ones that should be used.But my cheapie Mastech and chinese no-name 830L have their uses, too. If I need some meters to monitor another 5V rail, or to quickly verify the value of a resistor because the color bands are ambiguous and the other meters are in use, they're totally fine for that. I'm just not gonna use them for measuring mains (or higher, if I theoretically worked with higher voltages). It's about knowing your tools and their limitations.For the things an electronics beginnershouldbe starting with -- battery powered low voltage stuff -- I doubt there's any meter on the market that will be dangerous. One just needs to understand that as you move towards more demanding use cases, the tools have to grow with it.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 03:54:22 pm
content: Quote from: Aviator X on July 05, 2017, 12:01:21 pmAviator X, a few years ago there were batches and batches of Extech DMMs that in principle were designed OK but in practice had a lot of variation in the production quality - the EX330 was not an exception as mentioned inthis thread. Obviously that this may have changed, but I suspect you may have a better offer from another brand.

author: Aviator X
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 06:00:13 pm
content: tooki and rsjsouza,Thanks for the guidance. I will use this thread and the ones you linked to continue searching for the right tool. In the mean time, a multimeter in the hand is better than one on the store website.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 09:51:21 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on July 03, 2017, 10:26:16 pmPlease provide a link or just the time for the comment you are referring to.

author: Chris_77
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 05:01:07 pm
content: Quote from: carnage on June 25, 2017, 09:03:31 pmHi, Justin!I'm not sure how important longevity is to you, but I'd rather buy something once, pay a bit more for it, and have it Just WorkTMeach time I use it.Insofar as brands, Dave actually had a good YouTube video on a DMM shootout for under $50. I myself have a Fluke 75 that I bought around either 1995 or 2000, and the other day I found it, turned it on, and it's still working fine. One of the LCD digits is a bit dim, it's not backlit, but it seems to be stomping along perfectly fine. I know that Fluke has a good reputation as a brand, so this might color your decision if you're looking for one to last you through decades of use.

author: tigr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 09:00:23 pm
content: Fluke115

author: mariustaciuc
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 04:19:47 am
content: In my opinion, there are pluses and minuses about the multimeterhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXDEUyI8L0=youtu.be

author: mariustaciuc
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 05:36:48 am
content: If you are interested in a review and comparison between Fluke and Mastech:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eXDEUyI8L0=youtu.be

author: castironman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 11:49:47 am
content: As long as you don't mind the very slow auto range...3 secs on my for 12 volts DC even if I use manual range...