OT: Any woodworkers here? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:02:02 am
content: I wanted to sand down the surface of my wooden cutting board. I usually oil it up but over the years various stains and spills accumulated.The thing is the sanding paper gets clogged up immediately by something like wax, which is I guess butcher block oil + food particles.I've been using a 1/4 block sander and a smaller finishing sander, clearly the wrong tools.I hesitate to use the belt sander with 60 grit...What can I use to get the stains off?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:04:28 am
content: Google for "Oxalic acid" and "wood working" or "wood cleaning".

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 05:01:30 pm
content: Why not just apply some EXTRA patience, go about the business of a little bit of (block) sander, toss the dirty section of fine grit paper, apply the oil, as both will continuously pull dirt up / out.And more patient action w paper towels, soaking up a lot, maybe still visible stained. Keep throwing away those little sections of sandpaper and soaking up dirty oil / replace.Many carpenter types also know about THE HEMP...It can often be purchased at a he,alth food store. Expensive, a bit, and needing continuous refrigeration to avoid going bad, (rancid).It's a thin oil, great for absorbing that funk, and immediately discard that couple tablespoons.Also, I don't know, some folks clean w baking soda.Good luck !

author: mag_therm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 09:34:12 pm
content: Could be run through a planer like they use on the woodworkers TV shows.But it might be too wide for the average hobby planer.If it is otherwise a write off, it could be run on a table saw with a wide dado set-up.Leave the edges uncut for support, and run a succession of passes over the dado blades set for 1 millimetre or so.Then use the belt sander to take down the uncut edges and smooth out the ridges from the dado blades.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2020, 09:54:45 pm
content: First, persuade yourself that the stains add up to patena and domestic history. Then use a cabinet scraper to carefully remove any embedded sanding grit residue hiding in the end grain of the wood, oil it thoroughly, and go and do something more enjoyable instead.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:05:29 am
content: I use a hand plane. I see your board is glued up end grain, so planing will be a challenge. OTOH a scraper would work well.The photo attached is a pizza knife I just made a couple days ago sitting on a cutting board I use almost daily that I made nearly 18 years ago.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:30:26 am
content: Yup, cabinet scraper is the way to go. You'd be surprised how much material you can remove with a scraper once you get the cutting angle right and a bit of practice under your belt. It'll certainly take material off faster than abrasives and with practice leaves a great finish. With end grain to work with any other cutting method is going to be a right PITA. It's important to learn how to keep one sharp with a file and something hard to form an edge over, a carbide rod is idea, a file tang will do the job if it's nice and smooth.It'll take a while to do, but personally I find working with a cabinet scraper quite therapeutic. It's certainly a more pleasant prospect than fighting with a belt sander and several grits to get the thing cut back, levelled off and smooth.

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 03:51:38 am
content: I would take it to a local cabinet shop and pay them to do it.I had a commercial stair shop for many years and people would come in and have me do all sorts of jobs for them they couldn't do at their home shop.The shop personnel are going to know the best method and have the best equipment for this work.Cabinet scrapers are the next best, however it is a lot of work.Cabinet scrapers are best for leveling those small imperfections on flat visible surfaces or removing dried glue before applying your finish.Years of adding mineral oil to your board has deeply penetrated the end grain.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 08:00:57 am
content: As the block is entirely end grain any staining will have penetrated quite deeply and only mechanical removal of maybe a mm or 2 will get to clean clear timber.Without access to machinery to remove such an amount of timber I would suggest you just refresh the surface with say a belt sander and 40 grit belt and then to 80 or 100 grit belts to finish. You won't get all the marks out however with a cleaner uncontaminated surface any food grade oils used to preserve/seal the surface will penetrate into the wood better.Timber is a fine cutting surface and more hygienic than synthetic materials especially large cutting boards when they can only be wiped down.We need remember short whole logs in butchers shops were once a common sight and had been for some 100's of years.

author: Syntax Error
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 10:57:13 am
content: For stubborn animal greased wood, I would try and 'cut' the surface with a mix of damp baking soda and wire wool. The wire wool and soda should reach into the end grain.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 05:20:56 pm
content: hmm, 36 or 40 grit on a belt sander (the one tool that can handle nasty stuff like this). I did a wood piece like that using 60 grit 'mesh' sand paper connected to a orbital connected to a strong vacuum, but I went through a fair bit. If I went with a belt sander it would have gone quick.The mesh abrasives (diablo mesh or abranet) last ALOT longer then solid papers with holes. But you do have to take em off the velcro and blow it out and wash them, but it cuts down materials cost. The way they work1) for 15$ you get between 10-20 pieces of abrasive mesh and a special velcro pad with holes in it that has looser velcro then your sander.You align the velcro backer it comes with with the holes in your orbital sander, then you center them mesh on top of that, and frequently take off the mesh and blow it out with compressor and eventually wash it with soap and a nylon brush until it wears out then repeat.The belt sander is the one tool that can handle mill-scale also on steel. Orbitals get clogged very quickly. Belt sander can surprisingly last a long time with the crappiest materials.I would recommend a belt sander with the coarsest mesh you can get (typically 36 grit in the hardware store), then move onto an orbital with the mesh abrasives.If you use a remover (not sure if you WANT to because it is a food surface), it might cut down on your abrasive use. Some people might suggest sending it out to get planed on a big planer for $50-100 or so.The orbital sander SHOULD be less aggressive then usual if you use the mesh abrasives, but last longer because of less clogging.I did a table top that was not respected and used a big butchers block for a long time. It was a very bad job. It is also made like your block out of glued wood bits. You will not find this job pleasant. I typically use the mesh abrasives (I stock piled them between 50 to 1000 grit for more money then most people want to spend on abrasives). I think its worth it, so long you clean em, and know when to use a fresh piece for a certain job instead of trying to get every penny out of it (so it increases your storage requirement because you need to segregate them after wear becomes unacceptable for certain jobs).I get so sick of aligning the normal ones with holes that I just pay to not deal with that.https://www.diablotools.com/products/DND050060H10IThe 10x life is a bit of a stretch, but I notice it the most on finer grits, with normal sand paper disks at 800 grit.. the life time is really really low.. the mesh really helps there IMO. Life time will depend on how hard the material you are using is, I.e. corian plastic will wear it out quickly (its filled with abrasives itself).I will say though, it was well worth the effort because it ends up being a center piece in any kitchen thats used regularly, you are looking at the cutting board more then anything else in the kitchen (unless you stir alot of pasta or stirfry). At least, if you want all your fingers.. plus its just gross to think of stuff being rancid inside of the deep scratches that never seem to wash out.this video specifically highlights out its good at dealing with 'clogging' material surfaces.*be sure to use a nylon brush and good soap and warm water to clean em out when they are clogged up bad, it does help, you can clean very dirty gummed up things with a brush more so then running water. For this job you need to consider it more then the usual because it is really foul.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 07:40:52 pm
content: Well it's not poisonous or anything, just unsightly. I guess it can wait a few more months...

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2020, 07:57:42 pm
content: Look up cutting board maintenance. You're not the first to ask this question and it'd be a shame to mess up a nice cutting board.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 12:45:33 am
content: it won't be that bad with a 50 mesh net abrasives, I was complaining because I did a table that was used as a cutting board, food scraps, etc that is approx 5x2.5 feet or so (mostly damage from vegetables). I think its the yams that mess these up because they are hard to cut.It really does clog ALOT less. maybe not 10 times less but its up there.also, people that make epoxy tables found that you can get things planed for a fee (according to youtube videos). That would be the easiest and most precise way to refinish it. Epoxy table makers send them out to get planed because they are a utter PITA when you do alot. It seems to be a job that small manufacturing places will accept as a side job.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 02, 2020, 12:45:33 amPlaning is quite drastic. There's a good chance that's not remotely required. Wood can often be maintained without cutting down to a fresh start.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 08:51:14 pm
content: You can get large diameter Dado & Planer router bits - it may be worth building a router sled and setting up to give the whole board a controlled depth skim cut.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 09:17:18 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 01, 2020, 07:40:52 pmIt occurred to me another way to cut the surface back although it need be done carefully if you need retain a near flat surface.Coarse sanding pads on an angle grinder. 24 grit will rip the surface back quite happily and with care you can still retain a reasonably flat surface. Once all blemishes are removed go to a 40 or 60 grit then a finer grit or a belt sander for finishing.https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-125mm-Rubber-Sanding-Backing-Pad-Polishing-Angle-Grinder-M14-Drill-Thread/124304443282?hash=item1cf11f4792:g:RrgAAOSwTdpfPP1Ihttps://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-24-Grit-Silverline-Fibre-Discs-125mm-Diameter-x-22-2mm-277864/233695745177?epid=677501724&hash=item36695a1499:g:L7cAAOSw6xxewmN~You can remove a serious amount of material with something like these ^^Velcro discs could be a solution however spinning them at grinder speeds rather than at rotary orbital speeds doesn't much do it for me:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32860228435.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5ebe759fvNfg2d&algo_pvid=754f3466-7076-4149-ac6e-05fd03b43fd7&algo_expid=754f3466-7076-4149-ac6e-05fd03b43fd7-50&btsid=0b0a555d16069423344431120e051f&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_Alternatively flap wheels could be used however they clog faster than plain sanding discs:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000238711477.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5b541160exdtXz&algo_pvid=65df5e76-ebc3-47b0-9e6d-44d58828076e&algo_expid=65df5e76-ebc3-47b0-9e6d-44d58828076e-4&btsid=0b0a557216069421406097339e891c&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 09:43:59 pm
content: If you need to remove a mm or more I'd suggest to use a hand plane.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 10:00:00 pm
content: Quote from: madires on December 02, 2020, 09:43:59 pmHand planing a mass of end grains is going to be a real pain though.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 11:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 02, 2020, 10:00:00 pmOn the other hand, it makes for a great upper body and core workout, and will probably increase your grip strength at least 50%.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2020, 11:50:00 pm
content: a scraper , in pinch you can try with a big knife as a scraper

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:15:01 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 02, 2020, 10:00:00 pmAdd to this the high possibility of bone fragments embedded in the timber and it'll end in tears with so much time spent sharpening the plane iron.Cabinet scrapers will not like bits of bone either.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:39:21 am
content: yea no this would require an auto planer you would probobly kill yourself because you need to resharpen it so often, which is why I suggest mailing it out. That blade is not going to live long doing that cut. Those table places can properly fixture it and have the tools to hog through that bull shit. Otherwise sand. Planing is nice to get a wood strait on the edge for gluing or on a nice board on the long axis.I don't know about flap wheels and wood working, I would imagine you need a good amount of skill to make that flat. Even a hand belt sander is kinda hard IMO, orbital is the only easy one I found.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:44:51 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 03, 2020, 12:39:21 amBut just how flat need a cutting board be ?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 12:55:47 am
content: i mean its just kinda the standard deal you get with a table, they do countertops and kitchen tables and game tables all to the same spec that happens when you invest in a high speed planernot like you can degrade the planer they have, but they built it with tables in mind. you can't really do worse automatically with the automatic equipment that exists in the world right now.I suppose you could try a electric planer, not sure what would happen. I never used the hand held one. I have some long old manual planes (~2 foot?) but they are basically antiques and I would never put them on pure end grain field.

author: Ground_Loop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 02:42:01 am
content: Or, apart from all the nuclear powered industrial options mentioned, you could just take a bit of time and use a cabinet scraper. I promise it will work just fine.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 10:48:00 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 03, 2020, 12:39:21 amI don't know what types of hand planers you can get at your local home improvement store and which quality they are, but a cutting edge becomes dull for a hand planer as well for a big heavy professional planing machine with 3-phase motor. Some wood types can be quite demanding. Either you apply some elbow grease or pay someone else for doing that.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 01:11:48 pm
content: Planing isn't hard, just that there's a high risk of tearout when cutting endgrain.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 05:04:57 pm
content: the factory does so much it does not care about 1 extra and they have all the tooling in place to keep their production running quicklybut again, I would just sand it. Its worth doing something because they are alot of work to make.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 06:35:51 pm
content: Planing will work, but the end grain work requires a good plane iron, extremely sharp and perfectly adjusted in the plane to make it anything other than a wretched chore. If you aren't experienced it may not be a good route to take.Since this task requires a multi-hobby/interest approach you might check if you or a friend has a mill. Something that goes through aluminum/steel laughs at end grain. You could have a surface ready for finish sanding in an hour or less including setup. If you go out to a shop to do this your biggest issue will be being sure they don't contaminate your block with coolant, machine oil and other nasties.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 08:10:11 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 03, 2020, 06:35:51 pmHowever, you will likely still have the same problems with tear-out as you would have with a plane. This is a consequence of wood being an anisotropic material. The solution for a mill would be the same as with a plane, make sure that the edges are supported by being clamped with some sacrificial scrap.It occurs to me that a fly cutter is probably the best tool for the job, and that's something one can often get away with using on wood in a drill press. The cutting forces on a single point tool like a fly cutter are relatively low compared to an end mill or face mill. I'd still be concerned about tear-out but that can be ameliorated as above. If one had a drill press to try this on, the next question would be "Do I have enough space over the bed to swing a fly cutter far enough to be useful?".

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 08:42:12 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on December 03, 2020, 08:10:11 pmSurface finish is relative to tool tip speed and feed rate. Period.An experienced operator could get a perfect finish on this board with a mill.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 08:51:16 pm
content: I agree, tear out at the edges could be a problem. But either sacrificial material at the edges as you suggest or a well chosen tool path will eliminate the issue.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 09:32:45 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 03, 2020, 08:42:12 pmTear-out in this context has nothing to do with surface finish but with the chunks breaking off the edges.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2020, 09:36:51 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 03, 2020, 08:51:16 pmyep going around the edge so the cutting is always inwards also works on metal to avoid making burr

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:02:16 pm
content: Cool, I found my hobby plane, I'll start this afternoon and let you know in a couple of months how far I get.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:07:35 pm
content: Ouch!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:38:25 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 04, 2020, 07:02:16 pmLike pissing into the wind !Get the grinder and sanding pads out if you require real progress.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:49:39 pm
content: don't use the grinder on wood, its too easy to burn it and get black / charcoal spots. You just don't need those kinds of RPMs. Same with flapwheel I think unless you are very careful doing touch up.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 04, 2020, 07:49:39 pmBalderdash !Stripped the paint off my old house with 5" and 7" sanding pads and smoothed with a rotary orbital and 40 grit.9" grinder for the large areas and the 5" for the more delicate/confined areas.Until you've done it you couldn't know.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 07:59:46 pm
content: I like to strip paint with a 20? grit carbide oscillating tool for a garage door.When I tried flap wheels on a grinder on wood I got horrible results. Maybe if you use the silicon carbide abrasives it might work better (the ones for aluminum)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2020, 08:39:50 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 04, 2020, 07:59:46 pmThey weren't coarse enough. If you spin too fine grit fast they will clog, guaranteed.If you need remove any material you need a 24 grit sanding disc on a grinder with a rubber pad.Velcro backed ones......yeah, nah as they're only good for low rotational speeds like rotary orbital sanders.Stuff like these that I linked before works:

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2020, 09:46:03 pm
content: Planing is quite drastic and there's a fair chance it's not required. Cutting board maintenance also deals with occasionally stripping down a board a starting fresh. Planing it isn't very usual. If you insist on planing that's also how you get the gunk off. There's a world of resources dedicated to the subject.https://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/how-do-you-maintain-a-wooden-cutting-board.htm