ATTENTION EEVBLOG ADMINS:  attachments mixup??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 12:29:01 pm
content: I just noticed that when I click on the attachment in an earlier message of mine:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/wtb-(uk)-electronic-dc-load/msg3140566/#msg3140566although the thumbnail image in this first message is correct, it shows the contents of an attachment in a later message:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/pitfalls-on-substituting-larger-ah-battery-pack-(with-same-voltage)-on-ups/msg3168194/#msg3168194Is this just me somehow? This behaviour happens when browsing as guest.I'm not sure where to post this to.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 12:34:41 pm
content: I think a few others have reported this as well, and IIRC thesoftware provider has looked into it and found it "not reproducible".

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 12:41:08 pm
content: It's not just you.It's been going on for some time now (almost a month ago when I first noticed).Supposedly it's being looked into.However, as you noticed it's still occurring today.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 01:13:04 pm
content: Yeah attachments can get overwrote with new attachments further downThe code to save files is getting confusedYour only option is to go back and delete the then invalid attachment, update, go back and readd the attachment, edit/post

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 01:13:22 pm
content: I get this too... basically attachments end up in the wrong posts.I decided to consider it a feature to stretch the minds of people reading my contributions

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 02:03:48 pm
content: Me too. Is there any particular method of attachment that's immune to this problem? End-of message thumbnail, inline full image, etc.? I saw somewhere a suggestion to skip the first attachment and go directly to "more attachments", but haven't tried that.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 03:07:26 pm
content: Reported and solved several times in the past AFAIK.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3112258/?topicseen#msg3112258Somebody is loosing it:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-mxr-8-channel-scope/msg3162896/#msg3162896Anyway I am not an expert, so not sure if migrating to something else from SMF will help.

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 07:39:25 pm
content: Sorry folks, I didn't realize this was a "feature".I've amended my post leaving the problem link in-place should the admins wish to investigate further.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 08:13:44 pm
content: I haven't tried thisskip the first attachment boxwork around myself yet.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3151250/#msg3151250

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 08:15:02 pm
content: Huh "It seems that you are not allowed to download or view attachments on this board."Cool.Have we overrun some database index?

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 08:49:17 pm
content: Oh FFS, now my later message got updated with the corrected attachment from the first message!!!! It's whack-a-mole WTF!How f*k'n hard is it to implement a create GUID for file name upon upload and embed that in the message. Then run a background job to look for orphans once a month. JFC!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 09:38:28 pm
content: Quote from: pqass on August 04, 2020, 08:49:17 pmΜy guess is that it has to do with the two plugins that were added (at once, no less) to “improve” attachment handling a while back, which were buggy from the get go, and my guess is that some subsequent update to the core forum software really broke things well and proper now.

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2020, 11:28:38 pm
content: Okay, I've now deleted the offending embedded attachment links in both my earlier messages.And I've attached below a new file to this post to see if this screws-up my earlier messages.EDIT: Okay. I think everything is okay now. My attachment below isn't screwing up the attachments in my earlier posts.MORAL: Just use the default "End-of-post exandable thumbnail" for all future attachments.

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 12:59:03 am
content: Quote from: pqass on August 04, 2020, 11:28:38 pmIn my experience, that doesn't solve the problem.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 05, 2020, 08:12:47 am
content: Yes, we know, it's been brought up in several threads already. The cause seems to be unknown but it's being looked at.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 11:30:08 am
content: TESTI have disabled the Advanced Image Attachments plugin.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 11:31:41 am
content: TEST

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:37:44 pm
content: I think turning off the plugin may have made things worse. It appears to turn all inline attachments into orphans. You see " [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] " in the message, and the thumbnail of the attachment at the bottom, but when you click on the thumbnail, nothing happens. Your pic of Admiral Ackbar is an example of this. And I've looked back at some of my messages that had inline pictures, and they're now all like that - no way to get to the pictures anymore.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:42:22 pm
content: Root cause = Bloody PHP programmers

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 04:42:52 pm
content: Quote from: Peabody on August 07, 2020, 04:37:44 pmWhen I click either of the links, Admiral Ackbar or the alienthe appropriate viewer (as I designated) pops up and the png or jpg is loaded after answering the request prompt on my side. Win7/64. When I click the thumbnail (not the link), the correct pic shows up in the post as it should. N/Ps with that here.testing inline full image belowdoes not work anymore but instead puts the expandable thumbnail

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 06:10:16 pm
content: Ok, Admiral Ackbar is now working for me again. So perhaps something else has changed in the last few hours. Anyway, it seems ok now. So I guess until a fix is forthcoming, we should just use the end-of-post thumbnail option.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 09:02:33 am
content: Inline images are NOW definitely broken... IMHO it's worse than it was before

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 09:38:45 am
content: I can live with inline pictures not working. That bug bringing up the wrong picture is definetly worse.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 09:41:42 am
content: To me, the order of inline images always appeared to be shifted by one, relative to the order of uploading the pics (when there is more than one pic attached). It was always like that, but once this behavior was known, it was easy to deal with it.However, I just checked a few moments ago, and now there are no inline images at all. All the images are now shown only as thumbnails, at the end of the message.For example, this use to show inline images, now it shows just the text " [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] ", instead of the inline pics.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/measure-a-magnets-b-field-with-a-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope-and-a-piece-of-wire/

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 10:46:36 am
content: Inline images are not working anymore because Dave turned off the required plugin.The original issue was affecting attached images, and i think Dave turned the plugin off to have the image functions of the SMF as stock as possible to make debugging easier, and to determine if maybe the plugin itself caused the issue.I have not yet heard reports if the attached image issue has gone away now.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 11:53:42 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on August 08, 2020, 10:46:36 amActually I reinstalled it and now it doesn't work

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 11:55:27 am
content: Well that throughly ruins “have you tried turning it off and on again”

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 01:22:27 pm
content: I think having just [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] in the text, and the thumb-nailed attachments at the bottom is mostly an improvement.I don't need to see the full size imagesevery timeI read the thread.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 01:30:23 pm
content: Some of my old attachments have gone, others seem to have been corrupted.We could switch to using external image hosting sites, but they can also be problematic. It appears there's no reliable way to attach files to forum posts.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/_tricks_-to-connect-multiple-push-switches-with-minimum-io-usage/msg36655/#msg36655

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 01:32:10 pm
content: Hmm, i only used the inline function once, but it did not show the full resolution, but scaled the image down.Only clicking on the image brought up the original size picture. I found it a neat solution to post pictures in a context.

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 02:52:00 pm
content: So, it looks to me like:Previous and new posts using the "inline full size image" option are converted to "end-of-post expandable thumbnail" automatically with a vestigial "" appearing in the text of the message (which can be removed).Previous posts that had the messed up pointer remain messed up - wouldn't expect them to have been automatically fixed.You can still use img tags to present pics in a similar fashion as "Inline full size img" after you have attached them by using the link inside img tags. Could come in handy when you really want to present something sequentially without going to external hosts:First you take a bulb:Then you saw itat the neckwherever you want as long as you use a saw and the bigger and the more beautiful, the better. Only the weak try to pry it off being afraid and thinking that it is, literally, glued - not just glued butliterallyglued. We must stop these rabid LITERALS as they are ruining our society. Remember, it is your right to saw - saw baby saw!!!Then you pull out the LED board"Hmmm dunno.EDIT: But see herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3181204/#msg3181204I'm tapping out - this arm bar is on too tight.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2020, 05:27:08 pm
content: Possible solution could be to add a new "images" sub forum. People could make a post there and pre-upload any images they want to be inline or full size and use that post to get URLs for the images to put in their actual post. Actual post would be a bit cleaner and the extra effort needed by the poster might be a side benefit. On the other hand, might just be another of my dumb ideas.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 03:50:07 am
content: Quote from: rdl on August 08, 2020, 05:27:08 pmThe extra dicking around isn't worth it, this just needs to get sorted.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 04:15:29 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 10, 2020, 03:50:07 amI would be perfectly happy going back to the way it was prior to this latest 'attachment plug-in'.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 06:17:51 am
content: I can also confirm seeing odd "off-by-one" behaviourswithin a single postwhen the addon was first added a while back, but I'm yet to see any inter-post issues. Often I had to edit the \ [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] numbers myself to get images in the right order or to show at all (the JS/gui on the page would sometimes insert the wrong numbers itself). Deleting and replacing attachments appeared to be a good trigger. It also didn't play well with previewing posts.Attaching images is a very important part of the forum, external hosts always die and should never be trusted. Hope you can find a good resolution Dave.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 06:43:04 am
content: Forum still broken.I wanted to post a pic of a potential future backyard project. Look what popped up.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2020, 07:12:49 am
content: Quote from: DrG on August 08, 2020, 02:52:00 pmThe translucent part is literally just glued to the rest. Insert a knife in the gap and they separate easily.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 02:24:40 pm
content: i think this is better here, instead of annoying@gnifwith an automated message in the Server Error Report threadThe attachment mixup issue seems to rear it's head again:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/affordable-crimp-tools-for-small-connectors-(dupont-etc-)/msg5153355/#msg5153355The second attachment in the linked post shows a completely different image after clicking on the thumbnail.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 02:41:18 pm
content: I have noticed it too for a few weeks in some random threads which I don't remember. Didn't bother reporting it as it seems to me it resurfaces all the time so considered to be a feature of this forum more than a bug.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 03:13:55 pm
content: Yes, i have seen this as well a couple of times.And yes i agree that there seems to be something fundamentally borked in a small way.But considering how important images are here in the forum, i wanted to point this out once again. This should really be fixed.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2023, 04:03:06 pm
content: It also happened to me recently, but I instantly deleted the bad attachment and re-uploaded it so it is no longer around.FWIW, I remember having some problems when it happened. I used the JavaScript "instant upload" feature and the images seemed to have uploaded OK and their previews showed up, but when I clicked "post" I got a message to the tune that "there was a problem storing attachments on the server, you may have exceeded allowed limits, etc". I attempted to post again, IIRC by simply clicking "back" and then "post" again, and the post showed up but with a few missing attachments. I edited to re-add them and that's when one of the images already attached to the post got overwritten.

author: SpottedDick
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 05:39:10 pm
content: This topic is nearly 5 years old. Can the inline image option not just be removed? I don't visit here very often and it was VERY frustrating trying to figure out why my images wouldn't work.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 07:15:37 pm
content: The inline is working fine now, used it couple of days ago.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 07:43:56 pm
content: I'm sorry; I think the whole image-handling process on this site is totally brain-damaged.Just to be clear: this has nothing at all to do with Dave or EEVBLOG.It's all on the provider of the forum software, Simple Machines.Yeah, yeah, I know: they're decent folks, maintain a forum of their own where you can post problems about their software, and they're constantly working to fix things as well as add new features.But somehow their image-handling scheme is just one hot mess. And not just the implementation (code), but the whole design, the weird variety of insertion schemes, etc.My scheme of choice, BTW, is the "Inline full-size image" one, because it doesn't require any interaction by the viewer in order to see the image at my intended size. And yes, I'm always careful to size it judiciously so it doesn't blow up the viewer's screen. (Easily done with my image editor, Paint Shop Pro.)My least favorite option is whichever one makes you click on the image, and then you're on a new HTML page so you have to click "back" to get back to where you were. Not even sure which option that is, but it's kind of a PITA.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 09:34:41 pm
content: QuoteIt's a bad one because if there are many such posts in a thread then as the images slowly load the post you're reading keeps getting shuffled down the screen. Every time you drop in to see the trailing new post. And, generally, one only needs to see the full thing once. Thereafter a thumbnail reminder is fine.Further, surely it is the reader who decides they can or cannot be bothered to click things. Some of us just have no interest on some images so don't click them, and for those of interest a click no bother.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 09:40:18 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on July 12, 2025, 09:34:41 pmWell, like I wrote, I use this option judiciously. Usually just one or maybe two images, sized as small as possible to get the point across.I still remember the days, not all that long ago, where I only had dial-up and was quite aware of how long things took to load ...Nothing like those 1672x1940 photos of some stupid circuit board at full size ...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 11:27:50 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on July 12, 2025, 07:43:56 pmNo one else is complaining.And it's not the just the image attachment plugin, I can insert a giant meme image right here with the basic IMG tag:

author: SpottedDick
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 11:35:05 pm
content: QuoteDave, maybe it's an adblocker or something, but I was struggling to understand why none of mine would load earlier, especially since the little icon told me how to do it and I was doing it to the letter. Tried at least 3 times, still no joy. I gave up and then found an ancient post saying to post it as a link, and then edit the comment to put in the link. Janky as all hell, but it actually worked.Inline images do not work here, and I can't be alone with this.I worked at a company that had bugs that last nearly 3 years before someone figured it out, but these are mundane. Having new users give up when they try to post an image which is necessary to show the issue, is surely a detriment to your site if nothing else.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:55:05 am
content: Here is an inline image. I dragged the file onto the attachment box and selected the expandle inline attachment, and it works fine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:57:36 am
content: test again with the "inline full sive image option" and again it works fine.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:58:46 am
content: test again with "end of post expandable thumbnail" default option. Again, works fine.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 02:58:44 am
content: Quote from: SpottedDick on July 12, 2025, 11:35:05 pmIt's your end mate, we did have an issue a while back where they would get swapped, but this was a storage issue on the servers, not a forum bug.Inline attachments have been working fine for a long time.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 05:45:25 am
content: Quote from: SpottedDick on July 12, 2025, 05:39:10 pmNil issues on this end, and I use Brave browser and block a lot of elements.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 08:27:44 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 13, 2025, 12:55:05 amNow try multiple images at once, using the “more attachments” link. They end up out of order, or missing altogether, or the wrong one appearing inline.If I need multiple images on a post in a specific order, I don’t even bother with “more attachments” anymore, I add one, post it, then go back one by one to edit the post and add a single image, save the post. Repeat until all the images are attached and inserted.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:37:50 am
content: I am adding the following five pictures in their numerical order.EDIT 1: I used "Choose file" (not drag and drop because I'm on an Android tablet). I selected "inline full sized image" for each of them.The order is correct, but I wonder why the first one is bigger. These comments have been added using "Modify" after posting.EDIT 2: Ah hah! Files 2 to 5 have appeared as end-of-post, not inline. The order is still correct, though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:41:10 am
content: And if you add each as an inline image by selecting that option at the time of upload? And what if the file names aren’t in numerical order (for example, by naming them each with their spelled-out word, so that the alphabetical sort order of the files isn’t the same as the upload order)?

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:44:12 am
content: I'll check.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:46:12 am
content: Posting more than 1 full size inline image...Well look at that, it works. You just have to maually change the "<attachimg=1>" tag to <attachimg=2> etc

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:52:51 am
content: The filenames are now the written words. I'm going to use "Choose file" followed by "Inline full size image". I will do this five times without moving the cursor or even clicking on the post between adds.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:54:53 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 11:52:51 amYes I know the plugin is a bit buggy in that regard and not perfect, but it does work.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:55:52 am
content: REGARDING POST #58I'm sorry about the larger size '1' - I think that is a mistake I made when creating the png files.BUT NOTICE: numbers 2 to 5 have appeared as "end of post" despite me using the drop down to select "inline full size".

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:57:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 13, 2025, 11:54:53 amDave, I'm just going to try to get them all in line. Don't worry - I'll delete all the posts when Ive finished.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 11:59:30 am
content: REGARDING POST #58Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 11:55:52 amHere is a screenshot of what I did, just before hitting the "Post" button. Note two things: only the first file created an "attachimg" entry. Secondly, in the lower half where you add files, all five files appear to have been treated the same.I'm now going to try something else.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 11:55:52 amYou can use the attach=NNN or attachimg=NNN tags to make the images appear inline.Images which are not referenced by an attach=NNN or attachimg=NNN tag in the post body will appear at the end of the post.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:12:41 pm
content: This time I will add "attachimg" tags for all the filesafteradding them.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: ledtester on July 13, 2025, 12:10:36 pmBeat me to it!As is clear from post #64, simply adding an "attachimg=n" entry to your text you can make the images appear inline.One last experiment.....

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 13, 2025, 11:46:12 am”Just”.Hence why I said it’s easier to add them one by one, since they don’t get mixed up that way.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:22:03 pm
content: This time the images should be displayed in a different order from how they were attached. So I'll attach them in numerical order but the 'attachimg' entries will be: 5, 1, 4, 2, 3.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:24:16 pm
content: REGARDING POST #67, this is how I attached the images:

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:36:35 pm
content: REGARDING POSTS #67 AND #69Conclusion.Assuming you want inline full-size images, you can use "Choose file" repeatedly - without editing anything - to add images to your post. Internally the server considers the first file you upload to be <img=1>, the second file to be <img=2>, and so on. So internally it numbers them in the order you upload them.I didn't bother changing the 'End-of-post expandable thumbnail' drop-down, because it only seems to work on the first image you upload.Then, when editing the text of your post, you can add <attachimg=n> anywhere in the text to display image number 'n' at that point.NOTE: USE SQUARE BRACKETS RATHER THAN < AND >.I also strongly recommend adding a width parameter so that the picture size is reasonable. I recommend 600 pixels for simple images, and perhaps 1000 or even more for complex images.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:47:21 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 12:36:35 pmIt does not work like that for me.Inline links in text land nicely where you put them.But when I save message with 4 attachements, file 2 becomes, first one and file 1 is shown as the last one.Meaning :I attach files 1,2 3,4 as attacghmet 1, 2, 3 and 4.I put links to attachements 1 2 3 and 4 in text.I save.Images are displayed in order 2 3 4 1.I edit message.I can see that image 2 is saved as att 1, 3 as 2, 4 as 3 and 1 is saved as att 4.So links to attachments in text are working fine. It is attachments that are saved out or order.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:50:32 pm
content: REGARDING EXPANDABLE THUMBNAILSIf you want the image to appear in your post as an expandable thumbnail, use:<attach=n>....rather than <attachimg=n>... wherenis the image number (in the order they were uploaded). Remember to replace my < and > characters with square brackets.If you do not insert an image into your text using 'attach' or 'attachimg', it will appear at the end of your post.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:51:42 pm
content: For previous message, how it was created and how system saved it. Even here you can see how it saved with first and last one swapped.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:53:47 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 12:47:21 pmWhat do you mean, you "save" the message. The only time I save a message is when I have modified it. When I'm writing a message I "Post" it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 12:53:47 pmYes when i POST the message... You create and save the message when you post... Semantics.Point is when I create message with several atts, when you POST they all get shifted by one attachment up and first one lands as last attachment.If at that point you edit (MODIFY) message, you can see how they got saved out of order when you posted.In my post #73 image that is shown first was attached as second one, but it got posted as first attachment, and one that I added first was saved to server as att2.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 12:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 12:51:42 pmI can indeed! For some reason your first attached image is being pushed to the bottom of the stack. I have no idea what is going on.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 12:57:20 pmNot semantics, I think precise terminology is essential in a discussion like this. 😄Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 12:57:20 pmUnderstood, and extremely weird. We're both using the same server - what could be going on? 😕

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:04:33 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 12:47:21 pmThank you for the careful description and subsequent steps to reproduce; this is exactly the issue I always ran into that causes me to just add them one by one (i.e. modifying, saving, modifying, saving, etc)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:08:14 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 12:59:15 pmThank you!Yes that is exactly what happens. It has been like that since years.Once there was some bug in forum code regarding this , than admins did some reindexing and it worked for some time, and then forum source got fixed, and then this came back.It might be something simple as code working right now but workaround moves something (which was necessary for bug workaround) but not needed anymore. Or something like that.I have no clue about forum software and I don't want to say something out of order.But fact is this exists for quite some time.Workaround is not using first attachment.When need to attach something, ignore first one, click add another, and add from 2 on.Then it is working AFAIK.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 13, 2025, 01:04:33 pmMy pleasure.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 01:08:14 pmIt's great that we have between us demonstrated it working both correctly AND incorrectly.I've no idea how these online forums work? Could it be that there are several servers involved that keep each other updated with the posts (like the old bulletin board servers), but which are actually separate? If so, could they be running different versions of the forum software?Dave will know, I'm sure.Or could it be a browser-side thing? I'm running Vivaldi. Which browser are you using? I'll see if I can experience the bug.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:42:44 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 01:36:16 pmAfaik there is some kind of cluster, and also i think there are some cachin services on domain..We can take note that both Tooki and myself are EU area..I use Chrome Version 127.0.6533.89 with uBlock Origin 1.64.0.I did try it before without uBlock Origin and it was the same.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:42:56 pm
content: THIS IS USING FIREFOX, SO A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BROWSER CODE BASE.Files will be attached in numerical order.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 01:42:56 pmOK, so it isn't the browser - it is still working fine for me.By the way, I'm in Nottingham in the UK.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:46:26 pm
content: This is different PC and Firefox.[ Specified attachment is not available ]

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:48:34 pm
content: This is different PC and Firefox, same crap.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 01:48:45 pm
content: Both using Firefox, so this must be a server side problem.Let's hope Dave picks up on all this traffic. I assume he's sleeping right now.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 02:01:56 pm
content: Just do not use first attachment. Problem solved, move on with your life.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2025, 02:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on July 13, 2025, 02:01:56 pmWe're having fun. Leave us alone.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:08:40 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 01:48:45 pmWhat am I going to do, rewrite the plugin?I can check if there's an update I guess.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:12:44 am
content: Latest version running, 2018https://www.smfpacks.com/au/

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:48:30 am
content: i think there needs to be a virus scan and a mainframe purge

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 03:50:19 am
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 13, 2025, 01:36:16 pmImpossible, we are using a cluster but the file-system that houses the forum code, attachments, everything, is a DRBD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRBD). The database is also live replicated using Galera, any de-sync will cause the database to go into read-only mode to prevent "split brain" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain_(computing) ) issues.While the plugin works oddly, it's a third party addon to the forums that I neither have the time or inclination to dig into to resolve these minor quirks with how it functions.There was also never a patch/fix to correct this behaviour, if it changed, it was by the addon authors.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2025, 02:08:40 amHey, no, that's not what I meant! (Are you still mad at me, or something?)This is interesting...Earlier on - while it was night in Australia - we found that some of us experience a problem with attachments (the first attachment being reordered to the last position),and some of us don't.We experimented with different browsers, and found they all give the same result. We experimented with altering filenames (in case they were being sorted in some way) - no different.The fact thatsome of us doing the exact same thing got different resultsmade us wonder if we were talking to different servers (ie some have the bug fix, the others don't).At that point I said I had no idea about that, but you probably would, what with being the guv'nor and all.The key point, Dave, is that only some of us experience the reordering bug. This might be a big clue for you as to where the bug could be.If you don't want to fix it, fair enough. We just thought you'd be interested in our strange findings.EDIT: From the following posts it has become clear that there is some sort of a sore point around this plugin which apparently leads to people expressing frustration. Therefore I think I should withdraw everything in this post, with my apologies. It was, genuinely, intended to be helpful - I didn’t realise it would be unwelcome. Again, I'm sorry for blundering in to this without knowing about its history.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 02:46:29 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on July 14, 2025, 03:50:19 amThanks, @gnif. In that case, have you any idea why some of experience the reordering bug, and some don't? It surely sounds like we are talking to different softwares.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 03:01:46 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 14, 2025, 02:46:29 pmAgain, it is literally impossible to be talking to different software, please do some research on DRBD. The servers in the cluster literally share a single unified block device, the forum installation resides on that. It's block level replication, not file level.Why some experience it vs others is entirely on how the user is using the forum and the nuances of the plugin. Please stop assuming there is more to this then there is, the code is static and identical for every user across the planet.I am not going to dig into the plugin code to debug this, it's not worth my time to do so, and the feature is working as the authors of the plugin intend them to work.

author: Peabody
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 03:12:51 pm
content: I wonder if there's a profile setting of some kind that could cause this, with the setting being different for different users. It's hard to see how it could be a browser or OS setting.I haven't posted two pictures in a while, but my memory is that they have always been backwards - the first picture uploaded is displayed as the second picture.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 05:31:42 pm
content: Quote from: gnif on July 14, 2025, 03:01:46 pmWe were experimenting last night because we thought you might find the new information helpful. I just assumed you lot - being diligent caretakers of this forum - might appreciate this new information.EDIT: Removed my angry rant at @gnif which was unwarranted and unfair of me. I am sorry for losing my rag.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 05:43:09 pm
content: With the amount of grief this plugin has caused Gnif over the years, + now personal attacks, I wouldn't be surprised if he made the case to Dave to rip it out at the roots and revert to the original SMF 2.0 end of post thumbnail only attachment system, which at least had the benefit of reliability and predictability. It would also decrease inlining of large images as only those competent with BBCODE would be able to do so, amd most such users think twice and *try* to be considerate of those on low bandwidth or metered connections when inlining.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 05:53:00 pm
content: I think we should leave everything exactly as it is. Clearly Dave and the mods don't want to mess with it, which is perfectly understandable - it's Dave's forum.Furthermore, for those for whom it glitches, the workaround is well understood. So it's a small issue.Personally I wouldn't want the forum to revert to SMF 2.0, because I think we all appreciate being able to post inline images. Hence my vote for leaving everything as it is.I get the impression this thread has hit the buffers.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 06:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 14, 2025, 05:53:00 pmThis forum has really worked for a long long time with minimum effort in trying to fix bugs and improve "features". While it is a bit irritating, the end result seems to be one of the best in the Internet - a forum that just keeps working year after year, decade after decade.Most others try to do stuff like:1) change to totally different software / platform,2) do a major upgradeOften leading to total destruction of pretty much everything, either the admins finally giving up, or users leaving.I guess really thebestpossible option would be that some of the admins was a "fixing old PHP mess" enthusiast making small bugfixes and small gradual improvements, but that would be nearly unbelievable to be true. The second best option is what we have, "leave it alone and keep it running". Bonus points for scaring out idiots - we have heard people to suggest moving everything to discord or something similar bullcrap, and they get laughed out here, which is only good.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 06:35:13 pm
content: One thing I don't get here is exactly whose responsibility it is to keep the software that runs this set of fora running.I wrote earlier that the picture-attaching code is brain-damaged, and I stand by that statement.I participate on another forum that also uses Simple Machines, and their pic-attaching code is similarly broken, or at least very confusingly implemented.I took pains then to point out that none of this (so far as I know) is Dave's responsibility at all, because the problems are in the SMF software of which he's a client.Is this true? And what about the "plug-ins" that are mentioned here: are those supplied by the client (EEVBLOG) or by SMF?Simple Machines maintains their own forums, where folks can post problems with their software. I've tried using it for some known problems in the other forum (bad message formatting when using preview), which they acknowledged but which apparently may not be fixed for quite some time, if ever: their to-do list is extremely long.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 10:26:11 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on July 14, 2025, 06:35:13 pmWhile SMF hasn't been abandoned, it's been quite neglected for a long time now.Because the basic SMF install is pretty bare bones, this forum uses dozens of plugins to get it to have the functionality it does, and one of those is for attachments. It's written by a third party and hasn't been updated since 2018.So every SMF forum ends up being "patched together" like this with dozens of plugins for various needs, and this one is no different.I don't pay to use SMF, it's free software, I'm not their "client".It's just an unfortunate aspect of using semi-abandoned free software like this.All of the plugins are written by third parties.And before you ask, it's been discussed many times whether this forum should migrate to a more modern supported paid software. The answer has always been no, nobody likes change, so we just make do and everyone seems fine with that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 10:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on July 14, 2025, 06:00:09 pmCorrect. This forum is one of the best indexed on Google (and now AI) and is highly ranked, so changing anything major would be a huge mistake.As you said, the good thing about this forum is that it "just works", and produces plain HTML pages, no new fancy thing that will go out of favor in a few years. It's super fast, and it will continue to just work until some drastic change happens to the internet.Yes it's possible to have someone fix bugs and things, but it has to be the right person who knows the software well, otherwise you risk screwing it all up.If they only major complaint is that image attachments don't work perfectly, and there are several easy work arounds that works fine, then we are doing pretty well.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2025, 10:42:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 14, 2025, 10:26:11 pmOh gawd no. That would be the height of boorishness, to use a free forum and then demand that the proprietors spend money on better new software.I may be an ass but not that bad.Thanks for clearing up the plugin business; I wasn't aware that there were 3rd-party parts to the puzzle.Just happy it works as well as it does.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 12:21:26 am
content: I think I need to clarify my position on all of this also, please know I am not frustrated or angry about the desire to help and fix these issues.Dave employs my services to keep these servers running and responsive, when I took on this role Dave was already heavily invested in SMF with quite a few plugins that were no longer maintained. While I am happy at times to invest time into debugging and development, it's usually to solve some major issue we are having that is affecting everyone, or something we need to manage the forums better. Dave does not pay me as a software developer, I do this as a favour to the community when I have the time and inclination to do so.The idea that keeping this forum operating is minimum effort is incorrect, I can't count the number of hours I have personally invested into making this forum and the main website run well. I take personal pride in my work and get great satisfaction from the feedback from the community when the changes are noticed (not that it's a requirement).When it comes to debugging SMF, it's an absolute nightmare, the architectural design (if you can even call it that) of the software is terrible. While it has a "plugin/addon" system, addons are actually patches to the SMF core code. This has made upgrading SMF to a later version then we are on practically impossible, and debugging is almost impossible without disrupting the live forum.Even with all these issues, I completely agree with Dave that changing the forum software at this time would be a terrible idea. Not only from a SEO POV, but also from a technical POV as all the tuning of the cluster to perform well with the SMF workload would be thrown out the window and we would be starting from scratch to learn and deal with the problems of whatever software we upgraded to.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 12:47:35 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 13, 2025, 01:08:14 pmYup this.A patch Dave added years ago broke using the 1st attachment as a thumbnail and IIRC Dave added the inline attachment function as a workaround but still all these years later the thumbnail 1st attachment bug has never been addressed by the SMF developers or those that create the plugin enhancements so it is what it is and we live with it.XenForo forum SW has been discussed as a replacement which works pretty well except for 1 fatal flaw, it never flags any thread that you have contributed to in the distant past.....but SMF does without issue....always !

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 12:58:03 am
content: Quote from: gnif on July 15, 2025, 12:21:26 amOh yea I remember that from when I had an SMF forum years ago. The add-ons just put their code here and there in the SMF code and creates a slush of original and add-on all mixed in. A real debugging nightmare if the crap plug-in does not work. Then you add and remove more add-ons and it gets even messier!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 02:59:23 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on July 15, 2025, 12:58:03 amWhen it comes to SMF, "if it's only slightly broke, don't fix it."

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 07:02:21 am
content: Quote from: gnif on July 15, 2025, 12:21:26 amAnd you succeed well because the result is invisible to the users: no flashy new features, it just "keeps working".Anyway, what I mean by minimum effort is exactly that the number of people who run it can be counted on one hand's fingers. A site this big couldwellemploy 50 people full-time if ran inefficiently.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2025, 10:38:22 am
content: I'm completely happy with the explanations and decisions around the forum software. Thank you, Dave, @gnif, et al.I remain intrigued that I don't suffer the "first attachment" bug, especially in the light of Dave's and @gnif's explanations. Never mind - it can remain a mystery. 😁

author: SpottedDick
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2025, 03:10:23 pm
content: Apologies, I haven't been on here in a while and missed some posts.Here's an uploaded inline image:And here's some text after it.EDIT: YAY, it's working now. No idea why, might have been something with uBlock.