SpaceX Interplanetary Transport! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 06:10:18 pm
content: Certainly not lacking for ambition:

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 07:02:08 pm
content: I think they forgot to refuel the booster

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2016, 08:45:06 pm
content: When?Alexander.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:59:48 am
content: Quote from: firewalker on September 27, 2016, 08:45:06 pmOptimally in six years I think was the scheduleBut I have to say I was rather impressed that they already had done a bunch of stuff and not just letting out hot air. They had designed and test fired the engines it is supposed to use (42 of them!) and they had made a prototype of the absolutely massive carbon fiber liquid oxygen tank (which is supposedly one of the more difficult parts).

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 05:39:11 am
content: That's like fuel for how long? 10 seconds?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:48:41 am
content: I know Space-X's abilities extend far beyond fancy graphics, but I couldn't help but feel watching that (and a lot of Elon's talk) most people wouldn't know that and think it's all just pie in the sky.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:50:17 am
content: Quote from: Dago on September 28, 2016, 04:59:48 amThat's freaking insane.This is what I'm talking about, they need to show this stuff and ram it home to everyone that they have real stuff and in many cases have successfully tested it or part of it.It's like at Space-X hype goes in one end and magic pops out the other end.

author: rollatorwieltje
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:52:50 am
content: Haven't watched it yet, but apparently the Q&A session was absolutely horrible. Maybe it was intentional, raise more funds so we can leave this planet as soon as possible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1YxNYiyALg&feature=youtu.be&t=5164

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:57:03 am
content: Quote from: rollatorwieltje on September 28, 2016, 07:52:50 amFor a serious highly anticipated world wide event like this you really nee to vet the questions before hand.But then again I went to a recent event with Gene Cernan (last moon walker) and the questions were vetted by the scientist host and they were mostly a waste of time.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:37:56 am
content: Everytime I hear Musk speak, I feel like I'm looking at a modern day Howard Hughes.It's an impressive goal, and I have no doubt that Elon will absolutely try and make it happen. But I found the presentation lacking on a couple of critical points.Firstly, 100+ people, for months, in that crew capsule, looked... pretty uncomfortable to me. He speaks of "making it fun", lectures, cinema, restaurant... which really doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because...Secondly, who is going to go, again he speaks of "making it affordable", but come on now, even if it's affordable, having people stick their hand up holding 500k cash and saying "shut up and take my money" isn't going to cut it, the people you need to send are not necessarily the people who want to go.Long long before Mars would be suitable for "Joe the Pizza guy" to move to Mars and setup shop, it's going to need a LOT of highly skilled people, thousands upon thousands, some of these people would certainly be amongst those who want to go, but would there really be enough of them, knowing that, there's no coming back in any short term.I just kinda feel like the plan for going to mars is much like his presentation's plan for funding it (Steal Underpants ... Profit [for those who don't get it, this is a Southpark reference]), namely "1.Build Mars Ships; 2.; 3.Multi Planet Civilisation".Still, I'd love to see that thing launch. Super cool.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:29:29 am
content: I think it's interesting that people assume you'd have to be insane to take that trip. I'm not saying for a second that I would, but the original ships from England to Australia and New Zealand were similarly crowded, similarly one-way-only, led to greater isolation from a communications point of view (an antipodean letter in the 1700s takes a lot longer than an interplanetary email), etc, etc. A trip to Mars is nevertheless obviously a whole new level, but I don't think it's so many orders of magnitude of crazy beyond those initial explorers.Accordingly, I think it's only fair to accord people who claim they would go on this journey with some respect and admiration, just as I do so with my ancestors who were on those ships. Just because I wouldn't, doesn't mean they're necessarily nuts to consider it.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:53:30 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 28, 2016, 08:37:56 amThis is an interesting point. I don't think there is anybody (much less a lot of people) with all the appropriate skills necessary to be a colonist. As Musk points out, there'd be a labor shortage on Mars (or wherever) for a very long time. There'd have to be a "colonist school" of some sort, because even astronauts do not casually have all the skill needed to do something like this. Even in their case, their training tends to be very mission-specific. For colonists, there'd have to be a fair amount of cross-disciplinary training. Those early colonists would have to be a pretty special bunch.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:54:42 am
content: On the point of that tank, do they seriously have an autoclave that big!? That's...mind boggling.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 02:14:55 pm
content: Quote from: rs20 on September 28, 2016, 10:29:29 amThose initial colonists, explorers, were coming to lands already inhabited for at least a thousand years in nz's case, and much much much longer in yours, lands with rich plentiful food and resource, relatively hospitible environments and not requiring any particularly novel technology, where they would have opportunities that they did not have in thier homeland (land ownership, from which they could derive thier fortune, or at least a better life than they had). Not to mention, a breathable atmosphere.People going to Mars don't have any of that. I just don't see a realistic draw, or even feasible reason in which colonists would want to be colonists at this stage, we all think "awesome, living on mars", but that's a very romantic notion.You landed your ship with "100 colonists" on Mars, now what, when they get there, what are they going to do, how are they going to survive, and for what reason would people want to merely survive. Perhaps SpaceX just wants to focus on the transport, totally fine, no problem, but I think transport to/from Mars is below trivial in comparison to what comes next.IMHO if you want to colonise mars, first you must give it a useful atmosphere, and viable ecosystem, the timescale for this step is measured in millenia. Then come the people.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:50:48 pm
content: I still don't understand why, after making all the effort to get into orbit, the best idea of what to do next is go back down to the ground.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 04:54:31 pm
content: To put the fuel tank to orbit.Alexander.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 07:28:36 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 28, 2016, 02:14:55 pmSimply, I beleave that is an ilogical suicide, and how you said: there are nothing. I follow to think that they will do a kind the hunger games (Only the more strongest survies) on Mars.https://youtu.be/ojFxlULdEQo?t=1h33m9sBesides, Why have they to complicate the life with Mars when they can to try to colonize the moon? The moon is more nearest than MarsHave they fear from some thing or somebody on the moon? .

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 08:32:17 pm
content: Even better, just stay in orbit. Get something big going there. It would be much a more practical plan. Snag a small asteroid for raw materials, or go to the Moon for them. Once industry and a reasonable population are established, then worry about the Moon or Mars. I'm all for exploration - by people, but a colony on another planet isn't going to happen any time soon and may be totally unnecessary anyway.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 09:51:17 pm
content: Raptor test , September 25 . Three days ago ...

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 10:00:21 pm
content: Very ambitious indeed. Teslas crashing , rockets blowing up, maybe they should work on pending issues and quality instead of launching another hype, just my two cents.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2016, 11:14:28 pm
content: Honestly, I'd give it all up in a second to be one of the first people on Mars. I'd do it for free, too. Yes, even knowing that the chances of me coming back would be slim. I'm sure there are at least 100 others like me out there in the world.

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 06:10:41 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on September 28, 2016, 10:00:21 pmCars crash. Rockets blow up. Occupational hazards of being drivers and space dudes. Stay at home, lock yourself in.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 06:22:12 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on September 28, 2016, 10:00:21 pmRight, so whenever a problem is found, all research and development should stop and all 5,000 SpaceX employees should stop what they're doing, and investigate the problem? Do remind me to never work for a company that you manage.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 07:59:45 am
content: All I am trying to say is that IMO Musk looks like a serial entrepreneur, brilliant at starting up new ideas and companies and get it going (eg get funding and investors), but not so good at making them mature and profitable. Tesla is still not making money, SpaceX is breaking even and first year small profit.You can't keep that up esp. when products are now starting to show signs of failure which makes many investors nervous.Where is the money and ROI for going to Mars, yes you can dream but someone has got to pay for it.Investors and stockprices are (unfortunately) what makes a business these days succesfull or failing, just my two cents.

author: 3db
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 09:29:38 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on September 29, 2016, 07:59:45 amTesla cars didn't crash dickhead drivers did that.I believe most of the issues causing production delays related to supply chain matters.There's a huge waiting list of people who want to buy these cars.The majority of car manufacturers have said they are going to build electric vehicles.They are also investing money and resources NOW.Each iteration of the car gets better and cheaper.On the SpaceX front NASA had a number issues with exploding rockets in the early days.They also had a few major issues with the shuttle program.Human progress and technological advancement involves RISK !!IMHO "modern" society seems to be far to risk averse.They spend far to much time on Arsebook and Twatter waiting to be offended.3db

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 10:22:43 am
content: It's worth remembering the private space movement from the 90's.Kelly, Kistler, Roton and Pioneer Aerospace...every one of them failed to launch anything. Feel free to add in the failed Venture Star program. The closest to any success was Roton's peculiar helicopter demonstrator (which had no rockets in it). Any one of them could have counted SpaceX's tiny Falcon 1 flight 4 orbital launch as a their greatest success, rather than just a tentative beginning. Hell, any one of them could have counted SpaceX'sfailuresas progress relative to what they had actually accomplished.After that, I was more than a little skeptical about SpaceX when they first started. Like all the rest, I rooted for them, but unlike their predecessors, they've actually come through. Space is hard. Space is dangerous. Remember NASA has killed 17 astronauts in their vehicles, 14 in flight. More in training. 7, pretty recently. There have even been a fair number of close calls. Just ask Luca Parmitano. While I wish Blue Origin success, so far all they have is a glorified version of SpaceX's Grasshopper, and a bunch of illustrations. At least their BE-4 engine is in the works. Hopefully, the design is good. I really do wish them success. Virgin Galactic? Toys. That's a dead end, and their toy vehicle has already killed people and it isn't even operational yet.I for one, think SpaceX's ambition is refreshing, and their aggressiveness with development to be positively old-school. I like it!Re Profitability: As an example, Amazon.com did not become profitable until 2002, 8 years after their founding. This was earlier than expected. I'm guessing Blue Origin isn't raking in money just yet.Re Reliability: Falcon 9 is statistically very much as reliable as practically anything that doesn't rely on Russian technology, and it's cheaper than anybody, even the Russians, even the Chinese, even without reusing the hardware.None of this is for the timid.

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2016, 03:18:38 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on September 28, 2016, 05:39:11 amThe tank is about (coarse calculation) ~2.5x larger than the LOX tank for the space shuttle. To give some perspective the space shuttle had a burn time of around eight and a half minutes for the main engines (they were throttled to limit aerodynamic forces and acceleration at different stages of the ascent).

author: boz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2016, 10:58:43 pm
content: I'll go to Mars when there's a Holiday Inn there, until then I will cheer from the sidelines(and Maybe buy a Model 3 if its any good to help pay for the Rocket)

author: setq
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2016, 02:01:01 pm
content: By the time they get a Holiday Inn there it'll be crawling with wankers. I'd rather get I early!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 05:06:33 am
content: The colonist will kill each other even before they get to Mars. Leaving with many people in confined space is no fun.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 05:31:50 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 03, 2016, 05:06:33 amYou've watched too many movies.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2016, 04:02:41 pm
content: I do agree partially with Bud that this is a situation that might escalate maybe not to murder but serious psychological situations. as soon as you place more than 5 people in a confined space for such a long time you better do a good psych evaluation beforehand. If money is the only differentiator than I sure would not like to be in that situation. Take a look at all those ego centric millionaires, they are no team players, they probably expect to have a lot ofslavesservants aboard for their convenience.

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 02:19:02 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on September 28, 2016, 02:14:55 pmHas no one in this thread heard of the contest where they asked for volunteers to go to Mars on a one way trip? Something like over 100k people signed up and they shut it down. Not sure that every single one of those was a serious entry, but even if only 1% were that would still be far more than enough.There will be plenty of people who will want to go on a one way trip off this planet.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 03:22:52 am
content: Quote from: Tinkerer on October 04, 2016, 02:19:02 amOnce again, I say that this is just a romantic notion.You say "would you go to mars on a one way trip" and people will say "Mars, another planet, hell yeah that'd be super cool", and they have a picture in their head of standing on the edge of an incredible canyon in a movie-grade suit casting their eyes across a magnificent vista.Problem is, that's not what it would be like.You say "would you go to mars on a one way trip to live in a rudimentary habitat, to be in a near permanant state of danger, to be perennially short of supplies, to never be able to go outside without an encumbering environmental suit, to live in a way similar to somebody wintering at Scott/McMurdo except winter is forever, there are no medevacs, no chance of regular resupply flights, any communication takes a very long time, outside there is no wildlife, no where else to go, all there is to see is geology, and by the way we have enough geologists but people to scrape out the shit tanks we could do with so just sign on the dotted line" which is a more realistic picture I think, people might not be quite so quick to accept.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 04:19:10 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on October 03, 2016, 05:31:50 amYes i did. And the last one was a documentary (cant remember who made it but probably can be found if searched) about validating the Trojan Horse story. As part of it they wanted to validate if it is possible to put that many people inside a wooden horse (read: a confined space) so they remained quiet for that long time. Needless to say, it took only a few hours before the volunteers started turning into assholes.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 05:01:04 am
content: We need to remember that it hasn't been that long since it was fairly routine to coup twenty to eighty men up in a small space for months or years at a time. In the days of sailing vessels whaling ships made very long voyages between port calls. Some of them went crazy, killed crewmates or whatever, but many did not. All done without the benefit of psychological testing and so on.The situations are different, but I am not sure which is worse. The sailors could climb the masts, even got away from the ship on whale boats occasionally, and didn't have to worry about breathing if they stuck their head out of the ship. But they didn't have radio and email contact back home, didn't have compact digital libraries of books and music, and they did have worms in their food, scurvy and lots of other fun features of the time.This schedule is crazy ambitious, but if he slips schedule by a decade he will still beat the space agencies by two or more decades. Space agency interplanetary travel has become just like the fusion joke, the thing of the future, and always will be.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 04, 2016, 05:42:08 am
content: But those were professionals it was their job and there was a harsh strict regime.If you read the rules those sailors obeyed by you would not dare not to obey.The same as you would not get drunk on your job and hit or insult your boss at work, but what if your group of colleagues had to be confined to stay in that office for one year? One year not leaving no fresh air no windows to look out no sunshine and the same people each and every day, could you still maintain your professionalism? Perhaps but not everyone. Then throw in a tension builder like two men interested in the same woman, a shortage of some resource and you get things boiling.We had tv shows were strangers were put in a deserted island with little food, that sometimes went wrong after weeks. Also put in a house and they still had entertainment and lot of other distractions. There have been psych experiments with these kind of conditions were people turned claustrophobic after weeks etc etc.Now place 100 random millionaires in a bucket and see what happens, damn this could be a good tv show but I pass.