How is the new Keysight 1000 x series scope compared with other low cost scopes? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 01:28:21 pm
content: Any opinion on this?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 02:00:50 pm
content: The probes are very low quality and sensitive to temperature. So you will have to calibrate the probe over and over.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 05:00:54 pm
content: Thanks for your experience. I am consider the new Keysight 1000x series, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z. How are they compared?I think I read a post mentioning that the new Keysight 1000x series could be hacked like the 1054Z. What extra features will that bring? Is it easy to hack? If I intend to hack it to get better and more features for free, is it better to buy it as soon as possible while Keysight still allows that? Some people think that this is done intentionally by Keysight but who knows for sure?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 05:08:57 pm
content: I'd add the MicSig TO1104 to the list with choices as well. Probes can be replaced so meh but what could become a problem is the extremely short memory in the Keysight 1000X series and the fact it only has 2 channels.What do you need in an oscilloscope? What kind of circuits do you work on?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 05:57:55 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 05:08:57 pmExtremely short memory even after the Keysight scope is hacked?I do motor control, simple filters, Op Amp, mechatronics, arduino/maker kind of stuffs.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 06:14:40 pm
content: which hack?IMHO short memory is relative, when you're used to work with 2.5 kpts and 48 kpts.you have listed scopes in very different price ranges and with different capabilities. for example, the rigol doesn't decode nor trigger can bus, if at some point you'll need it you're out of luck. the keysight while beying pricey and with a shorter memory does have a buil-in waveform gen and the FRA app. If you don't care for it you may want to instead invest in another scope

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 06:25:23 pm
content: As a rule of thumb you can use only up to 25% of the memory Keysight specifies and it gets less with reference traces and digital channels enabled. For 1Mpts that comes down to 250kpts per channel. I don't think you can hack more memory into the 1000X series and even if it would be possible in the future then there will be a hard limit of 4Mpts in total (1Mpts per channel) because the hardware simple doesn't have more memory.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 07:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 07, 2017, 05:00:54 pmI don't have the scope myself, but read about a lot of issues in another thread on this forum.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 08:33:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 06:25:23 pmThe 1000X doesn't have digital channels (unless the trigger input channel counts -- itcanbe used for SPI protocol decoding so maybe it counts here? Dunno), so I wouldn't think that would be much of a concern.So if you stop the scope, or the scope stops automatically in one-shot trigger mode, you only get 250K points worth of buffered memory with the 1000X? Does someone here have a 1000X that they can verify this with? This should be straightforward to verify.Also, I'm amused that this scope has "a lot of issues", seeing how it's an A-brand scope from a well-respected manufacturer, not some Chinese B-brand scope that is usually the target of ridicule...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 08:38:37 pm
content: Unfortunately the actual memory depth is well hidden on Keysight scopes and probably for a good reason. Deep memory is a very nice feature to have. Sure you can make do with less but IMHO deep memory is a feature which serves so many purposes that it should have a high priority when choosing an oscilloscope.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on May 07, 2017, 08:33:25 pmDSOX1000-X series has 1 digital channel that is shared with the external trigger BNC port. It is not a simple external trigger, you can visualize the signal and add it to the analog BUS with CH1 and CH2. EDUX1000-X does not have the same capability, but can be modded.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:06:23 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on May 07, 2017, 07:02:33 pmCan you list the issues, besides the ones already commented on this thread?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:08:11 pm
content: And let's not forget that the probe compensation issue wasone person, my probes are fine. They do feel cheap, like $15/pair cheap, but they do the job - and the lead is silicone.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on May 07, 2017, 09:08:11 pmI also posted that I experienced a similar problem with the probe compensation, but I could not reproduce the problem. I think I experienced the problem when I used a metallic pointed probe compensation tool, but I compensated again using the tool provided by Keysight and has been working fine.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:16:03 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 07, 2017, 05:57:55 pmThe EDUX can gain the most by hacking (it requieres adding some HW components as well), but on the DSOX the only hack possible is 70MHz to 100MHz bandwidth improvement (I think it was tested up to 200MHz by Dave Jones).

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:36:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 08:38:37 pmThe actual usable memory depth should be trivial to determine. You know your timebase and your sample rate, and you can see when the scope is stopped how much of the capture is visible on the screen -- and if you zoom out enough once the scope is stopped, you can see how much of the screen the entire capture occupies. Then you just do the math.You won't get any argument from me about the usefulness of deep memory. It's why I've argued that capture memory really should be much deeper than it is, given the cost and availability of DDR3 memory.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 09:59:00 pm
content: I read that the DS1054Z's fan is very noisy and the GDS-2204E is a bit quiet. How about the Keysight 1000x series? In terms of the GUI, looks like the Keysight 1000x series is the best. Do we see slow motions and lags in the 1000x series? I read that there were lags with the DS1054Z but the problem seems to have been fixed.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 10:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 07, 2017, 09:59:00 pmKeysight (Agilent, HP) scopes are the best in terms of UI responsiveness

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 10:22:42 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 07, 2017, 09:16:03 pmThe hardware is definitely capable of 200MHz, but I suspect some software hacks will be needed to make it work properly.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 10:41:41 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on May 07, 2017, 09:36:59 pmAnd where does Keysight show the samplerate? Last time I used a Keysight scope that was well hidden as well so it isn't easy to 'just do the math'. And why should I need to do the math in the first place? Setting up segmented recording without knowing length per segment and samplerate is a real PITA because you need to know the samplerate to sample a signal at a high enough rate and the length to know how long each segment is.BTW: I find the GDS2204E a lot easier to drive compared to the Keysight scope I used to have. The buttons at the bottom and side on the GDS2204E make it much easier to setup compared to going several levels deep into sub menus on the Keysight.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 11:02:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 10:41:41 pmOn the 1000X series, sample rate is shown on the right side of the screen, under Acquisition

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 11:07:02 pm
content: But once you exit that menu it is gone and thus not available when you need to know it to setup something else

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 11:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 10:41:41 pmThat was apparently answered as I type this.QuoteYou mean as opposed to having the scope tell you how much total memory is being used? Yeah, I prefer the scope tell me these things as well.But when you're using the scope, what are youreallyinterested in as regards the memory depth? The actual amount of memory used? Or the amount of time captured?QuoteYep.In Keysight's defense, at least they're now transparent about how and when memory is reduced. From page 80 of the user manual (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/54612-97001.pdf):QuoteOf course, that doesn't make your main point any less valid in the slightest.QuoteI do wish I could comment on this (the GDS2204E looks like a really nice scope, and I wish someone would do a video review of it to show what it's really capable of).

author: Relaxe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 02:07:16 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 07, 2017, 05:57:55 pmI would definitively go for a 4-channel if you intend to work on BLDC, PMSM, ACIM or any kind of brushless motors.Having one channel per phase is a very good thing.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:48:14 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 07, 2017, 11:07:02 pmYou have that back to front, the menu is always there showing the default "summary" information about the channels and the horizontal mode and sampling rate:https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lZULfMz9nlI/maxresdefault.jpgIts covered by menus when you are changing something more detailed, unlike the larger 2000/3000/4000/6000 x series which have their soft buttons along the bottom and keep the summary pane on the right visible under more conditions.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 05:56:26 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 07, 2017, 09:59:00 pmfixed in the sense that by enabling something like decode it's not awfully slower than it usually is? kind of. almost. it's still _very_ slow

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 06:43:01 am
content: Quote from: Relaxe on May 08, 2017, 02:07:16 amAlso for "Arduino" - two channels isn't enough for that.Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 07, 2017, 10:22:42 pmAnd probably some hardware hacks as well.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 08:32:04 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 08, 2017, 06:43:01 amI don't think so. Simply by changing the option links you can get ch1 fully working at 200MHz but ch2 has issues - this is clearly to do with how the firmware is configuring the hardware, so it should be possible to tweak it to set the hardware up correctly for 200mHz

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 10:46:49 am
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on May 07, 2017, 09:08:11 pmReally?Just do measurement with next settings on warmed up scope.ANALOGCh 1 Scale 100mV/, Pos 300.00mV, Coup DC, BW Limit On, Inv Off, Imp 1M OhmProbe 10.000000 : 1, Skew 0.0sTRIGGERSweep Mode Normal, Coup DC, Noise Rej Off, HF Rej Off, Holdoff 60.0nsMode EdgeHORIZONTALMode Normal, Ref Left, Main Scale 200.0us/, Main Delay 0.0sACQUISITIONMode Averaging, # Avgs 8, Realtime On, Vectors On, Persistence Off.Take are screen shot your compensation signal.Give your scope rest couple hours.Then start up again and make new screen shot after cold start.For this money scope itself really cool, menu very fast, no lags, no delay. All functions work well.But included probes - bull shit. I can make photo how probe's tips was scratched by their included hook tips after two week of use. Right place for this probes in trash.As for fan, yes, it's probably noisy, I cant compare with Rigol right now, because I don't have it for side by side comparison, so I think this is compatible by noise based in my past experience, may be slightly less.While I work with serial buses, I also do not feel any inconvenience with 1 Mpts memory in my scope, could be great if follower of "huge deep memory" and long single mode acquisition time, will explain me for what in 70/100 mHz scopes them need more. Use it as logic analyzer?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 11:13:13 am
content: Deep memory is handy to look at details in long captures. No need to try and figure out how to trigger on part of a signal and retry several times. Also data in one long capture can be related and two seperate captures may not be so useful. I'm currently working on an RFID system. Being able to capture the entire write transaction in great detail is very helpful.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 11:57:02 am
content: Quote from: serggio on May 08, 2017, 10:46:49 amCan we get a better/much better pair of probes at a cost of under US$100?

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on May 08, 2017, 10:46:49 amYou have a cpu, a power supply current sense signal a program and a serial port and want to know what and where is using how much energy. So you put a bunch of printf()s to the serial port here and there and voila, can correlate on the scope screen power in and code execution.Typical case the cpu wakes up does something and goes back to sleep, max sample rate would then be mem depth/capture time in seconds, so you'd only have 333kSa/s (or worse) max for a say 3 seconds capture which may very well be too few data points per baud to decode properly the serial data => decoding doesn't work.Most things these days use 115200 baud by default, for that you'd better have 115200*16= 1.8 MPoints per second of capture to be safe or at least half that (8 samples per bit slot might be enough perhaps, idk).Those infiniivisions have a hardware decoder so (I guess) none of this appliesBut even so, 100 Kpts mem depth nowadays such as in the EDU1000X is a

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:08:27 pm
content: How long you'll be rewind all your captured data for looking for something interesting you?I have CCTV cameras that can do 24/7 capture, but I use movement detector on itDo you know why? I prefer do not spend my time when I need focusing on the problem.Yes, I use trigger, I like trigger. It let me focusing on the problem with signal, it let me compare fast and slow changing signal at same point, and I don't want to wait 5 second to fill my scope memory, then rewind all tape, then change setup of my scope and repeat this procedure again and again till I'll not looking for something really important in the signal..

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:21:06 pm
content: For long time capture, I prefer to use an USB logic analyzer with protocol analyzer.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 01:53:15 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on May 08, 2017, 10:46:49 amYou are right, on those settings my probes are not properly compensated. I will recompensate the two sets of probes I have and check them again in a few hours.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 02:13:42 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on May 08, 2017, 12:08:27 pmThe thing is you don't look at everything but if you have enough data you can dig straight into a problem area without needing to recapture data. It simply is a much more efficient way of working.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 02:35:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 08, 2017, 02:13:42 pmIf you don't look at everything, why you need everything then?Setup right trigger, use segmented memory and etc..Ok,... What memory use Rigol 1054z from all available memory at 1 GSa/s (I suppose It not support 2 Gsa/s)?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 02:46:58 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on May 08, 2017, 02:35:37 pmWhy do things in a complicated way? Also it is not always easy/possible to redo the same test. BTW some oscilloscopes have a search function where you can let the oscilloscope look through the captured waveform to loop for anomalies.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 02:59:08 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 08, 2017, 02:46:58 pmWhat anomalies you talking about? If you know nature of this anomalies, you'll able to setup trigger. If you don't know what you looking for, you'll seat front of th scope and discover all recorded data oneself. What is difference? 1-20 Mpts... We talking about nothing. All this 14-54 Mpts seems like toys when we talking about 1-2GSa/s scopes.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 07:54:06 pm
content: In the past, many forum users recommended the Rigol DS1054z when somebody asked for suggestions to purchase a scope. Given that the new Keysight 1000x is out, which one is a better choice? It seems to me that the GDS-2204E is better than the DS1054Z. If 2-channel is OK for me, which do you recommend?If we could hack the Keysight to get 200MHz and more features, shall I get the cheapest version like the 50MHz and hack to 200MHz?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 08:16:49 pm
content: There is no hack yet to get to the full option 1000X buying the cheapest EDUX 50MHz scope. The most you can get from the EDUX 50MHz is to DSOX with 70MHz and you need to switch a couple of resistors and purchase and solder some components to the EXT INPUT section.Also if you need WAVEGEN, you need to purchase the EDUX-G or DSOX-G model, you cannot get the WAVEGEN later if you purchase the EDUX-A or DSOX-A models, as the WAVEGEN components are not populated in the PCB. Bode Plot is only available on the G models, as you need the Wavegen functionality.Here is the 1000X hack thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-978-keysight-1000x-hacking/msg1154923/#msg1154923

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 08:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 09, 2017, 08:16:49 pmThanks. I have a function generator already. Is there a point to have the WAVEGEN component?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 08:43:29 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 09, 2017, 08:31:56 pmThe only point I can think of is to use the built in Frequency response analyzer (Bode Plot) on the G models

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 08:49:07 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 09, 2017, 07:54:06 pmThe Siglent.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:16:27 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2017, 08:49:07 pmNo way. Not unless/until they fix the (too many) bugs in the FW. I've had one sds1kx and it's a pleasure to use (not more than the keysights though) but you can't rely on something that refuses to work properly all too often. So I had to return it.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:59:03 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on May 07, 2017, 02:00:50 pmHmm, that's weird. I wonder if good probes use an air dielectric trimmer for compensation but cheap probes use something very sensitive to temperature changes?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 09:16:32 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on May 09, 2017, 09:16:27 pmThe Keysight firmware isn't much better and that's on your list, so...PS: The Rigol firmware is quite good now.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 09:20:24 am
content: Quote from: mmagin on May 09, 2017, 09:59:03 pmThere's plenty of cheap probes that aren't affected by temperature. It looks like this is purely Keysight trying to save $0.02 on their new models.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 11:07:27 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 10, 2017, 09:16:32 amMiles better, I know for sure I use them daily.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 11:55:03 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 10, 2017, 09:16:32 amYou are talking complete bollocks.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 12:27:58 pm
content: This is my list (in order of preference):Keysight DSOX1102 (own)Micsig TO1102 / TO1104 (own)Rigol DS1054Z (sold because of slow UI)Siglent SDS1202X-E (If you need 200MHz and serial decode for under $400)

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 12:34:02 pm
content: One thing I can say for the Keysight scopes is that they enjoyable to use, and that's rare.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 03:00:14 pm
content: How come they don't make a 4-channel version for the new 1000 x series?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 05:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 10, 2017, 03:00:14 pmIf you need 4 channels, go for Micsig or Rigol. The 1000X (DSOX) actually has 2 analog channels + 1 digital channel

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 06:17:03 pm
content: Four channels is very nice for decoding SPI. It sometimes comes to pass that CS' is raised before the last bits have shifted out (programming error) and this is easy to see when you can see all 4 signals.My thoughts on decoding: I don't need to see very long packets of data. I can use printf() for that. What I want to see is just a few chars that are correct and whether the signals are clean. In other words, does any data pass over the link. I am not trying to decode a serial version of "War and Peace",Four channels is a luxury. It is the primary reason I bought the DS1054Z as I already had a Tek 485 with 350 MHz bandwidth. All the other gadgets, like measurements, decoding and FFT (such as it is) are just frosting on the cake. Except for Single shot mode - that is now a requirement. I never had that before.Probably the only other scope in that price range is the Siglent SDS1202X-E and from reading a bit about the scope, it appears there may be some glitches in the firmware. Siglent doesn't seem to have a reputation for expediting upgrades so I'm going to wait and see. I could envision buying a 200 MHz scope. There are times when bandwidth is really important. For the moment, that idea is on back burner.DS1054Z: Yes, the fan is noisy but not all that bad compared to other equipment, including my 485. Yes, it is well understood how to fix it. The thing is, after having changed the fan, I find my scope being left on for long periods of time. The scope is on a bench on my right and slightly behind my head. I don't see it unless I go looking.Yes, the selection encoder is twitchy as it is on many other scopes. The fix for this is also well understood. I consider the fan mod to be optional but changing out the encoder seems like a requirement. Having done this, I find the menu system to be a lot easier to use. Yes, I wiped out the warranty the second day I had the scope. So?Whatever bugs are left in the firmware are truly obscure, except for the spelling error and I suspect this is becoming an inside joke at Rigol.In my view, the DS1054Z owns the entry level scope market. Maybe the SDS1202X-E takes a piece, maybe not. Sure, there are better scopes but those that are markedly better tend to cost at least twice as much, sometimes 3 times. But, in the end, the scope is still an entry level model. Those scopes in the multiples of tens of thousands of dollars really are better.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 01:10:29 pm
content: There is no plan to decode SPI. I probably choose between DS1054Z, Keysight 1000x and GDS-2204E.I cannot stand the lag in scope. Is it true that the Keysight 1000 x is buggy? Can we get a better pair of probes for the scope at below US$100? Giving the uncertainty of hacking to max out the scope, which model do you recommend, In case of choosing the Keysight 1000x, which model do you recommend?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 01:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 11, 2017, 01:10:29 pmKeysight 1000X firmware is not buggy. You can get decent pair of probes for around $20 on eBay. I recommend the DSOX1102 and not the EDUX1002. EDUX can still be hacked to behave like a DSOX (more memory, segmented memory, 70MHz...) but you need to replace 2 SMD resistors that will void the warranty and it can break the user calibration process. And if you want it to be like a DSOX including the digital channel, then you need to add some 10-15 extra components. If you are OK with 2 channels, then just the 2 resistor swap is OK.EDUX is very limited (only 50MHz, I think it has 128Kpoints memory depth, no segmented memory)In summary, the Keysight 1000X looks and feels like a professional scope (like a little brother of Keysight 2000X and 3000X)... same UI, same responsiveness (not the same features)

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 02:45:33 pm
content: Quote from: TK on May 11, 2017, 01:21:12 pmThanks. So, the DSOX1102A and the DSOX1102G are the remaining choices. I have a function generator already. Trying to figure out if it is better to get the 1102G rater than the 1102A. Is the Bode plot test function in the 1102G useful? Can the 70MHz and 100MHz versions be easily hacked to allow higher bandwidth?Is it highly recommended to get another set of probes? Is there a recommended band and model number?

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 03:44:09 pm
content: For the function generator, it depends on what you're doing. I use the built in function generator all the time for my side project stuff even though I have a stand-alone function generator on my bench because it's so convenient. But, my stand-alone FG has better specs and bandwidth. The 70 MHz and 100 MHz DSO versions are the same hardware, and Dave's hack does appear to work the same on both models. But, the hack is definitely not Keysight supported and will void your warranty. Also, we didn't test the scope to 200 MHz, just 100 MHz so it's an at-your-own-risk thing.For probes, the oscilloscope will come with two of the passive probes, but it never hurts to have backups. I can't say much about non-Keysight probes because I don't have much experience there, but I do trust the ones that come with the 1000 X-Series.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 03:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on May 22, 2017, 03:44:09 pmWell, what you can say about Keysight probe?We waiting information about issue with Keysight N2140A probes included with this scope.I ordered Keysight N2843A 500 MHz Passive Probe for testing with this scope and will compare it with N2140A. Hope next week I'll receive my new probe and will do some measurement.When your testing will be ready Daniel?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 04:04:42 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 21, 2017, 02:45:33 pmI decided on the DSOX1102A which I recently bought, I have no regrets. The Bode Plot is mostly a gimmick the way it's implemented in the current firmware, low resolution and few steps. I guess it's fine for introducing students to the idea, but the practical uses are very limited in my opinion.For simple waveform demonstration purposes you have the built-in training signals. For using a function generator on the bench I'd rather get dedicated one, the $200 price difference gets you a function generator with better specifications. And it's much more practical to adjust while doing measurements than going into menus on the scope to change things (dedicated knobs for everything ftw!).The probes are just fine, nothing exceptional, but perfectly usable. If I remember correctly the scope is supplied with 2 probes, so you will want a third for the digital channel.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 05:53:23 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on May 22, 2017, 03:54:12 pmThe team is still working on testing it out. The preliminary results are that the variable cap appears to change with temperature, so we're working on characterizing a larger sample size in a controlled temperature environment. My earlier recommendation still stands - warm up the scope + probe together if making sensitive measurements.Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on May 22, 2017, 04:04:42 pmIt's very, very likely that the Bode plot points-per-decade setting will get increased in the next firmware update. I'm not sure if I can commit 100% to that at this point, but the overall consensus here from both planning and R&D is that it should be improved.And yes, it comes with 2 probes, so if you want to use a passive probe with the digital channel you'll need to get a 3rd.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2017, 08:34:19 pm
content: Hi Daniel, what is the chance of releasing a 4-channel version of the new 1000x series? I am also considering 4-channel scopes of other brands.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 11:20:51 pm
content: Usually I supply the circuits with a test signal from a function generator. Then, observe how the respond of one node of a circuit is like. I have both the input and output on display at the same time. In case I need to observe how the respond of other nodes, can I have the input and respond signals staying on the screen. Then, display the respond of other nodes for comparison?Can I save the data to a computer or usb drive using the Keysight 1000 x series scopes? Do I need to buy extra cable/module?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2017, 11:32:16 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 25, 2017, 11:20:51 pmYou can store the test signal as a reference (you can store 2 reference signals on 1000X scopes) and display one of them at a time independent of the CH1 and CH2 inputs.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 03:03:25 am
content: Thanks. How come the curves are fuzzy looking?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 08:12:39 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 26, 2017, 03:03:25 amBecause it is a DSO.Watch these:https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/10/eevblog-601-why-digital-oscilloscopes-appear-noisy/https://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/27/eevblog-610-why-digital-scopes-appear-noisy-part-2/

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 08:49:37 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 26, 2017, 08:12:39 amSo, the GDS-2204E and DS1054Z also have this issue? I am trying to decide among these three scopes.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 09:33:17 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on May 26, 2017, 08:49:37 pmIt is not anissue, some noise, furriness or thick waveforms are part of life with DSO's.Study the methods used to clean up waveforms or just know they are this way and work with it.The noise is information, some of which you may need to know, some you may not.Experience tells us what we need to take notice of and what we can ignore.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 05:48:53 pm
content: For the Keysight 1000 x series scopes, can I save the data to a storage device or to a computer without the need to purchase extra hardware?In case of going for the 1000 x series rather than the GDS-2204E or DS1054Z, is it better to wait for Keysight to fix the issue with the probes first?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 06:17:53 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 17, 2017, 05:48:53 pmIf you explain what you need to accomplish (I read your post asking about the difference between an oscilloscope and a data logger) you will receive a more specific recommendation.The probe drift is not an issue, really... if it is a problem for you, you can get decent scopes on eBay for around $30 the pair.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 06:36:38 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 17, 2017, 05:48:53 pmThe 1000X probes are a total non-issue. If you don't like them then throw them away and spend $30-$40 to buy new ones. Personally I never use the probes which come with a scope anyway. I have a whole bunch (10 or so) of identical probes from Testec.I'm not sure what you mean by extra hardware but the GDS-2204E has an internal flash drive and the ability to safe screendumps directly to a Windows network share over the network. Otherwise I'm quite sure the 1000X can save data to a USB stick.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 07:45:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 06:36:38 pmFishandchips was asking on another thread about the difference between an oscilloscope and a data logger. I guess he/she is needing to save the captured data in excel or text format, a bunch of data, not just a screenshot. He/she indicated that a post processing is needed on the PC. That is why I asked what is the exact project description to be able to help.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:02:14 pm
content: Quote from: TK on June 17, 2017, 07:45:58 pmThe GDS2204 can also save raw data to a PC or USB stick by using the buttons on the front panel or automatically in data logging mode. I think the 1000X should be able to save raw data onto a USB stick as well.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 06:36:38 pmEven if it is cheap to replace the probes, it's a matter of principle:One is not supposed to replace the probes of a brand new oscilloscope up front.And if decent quality probes are really so cheap, how come Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth?Current product management at Keysight in a nutshell:Lack of quality control.Lack of responsibility.Lack of accountability.Lack of respect.No long-term vision.Key-sightless.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:18:41 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pmOn a low cost scope? Ofcourse! If you buy a new car you have to pay extra for decent tyres as well otherwise you'll get the cheapest crappy tyres the dealer can get their hands on.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:24:02 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pmDo you own any Keysight scope? You seems to be more concerned than the actual owners of 1000X scopes.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:24:19 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 08:18:41 pmWe are talking about Keysight here. An A-brand if I recall correctly.Note that Rigol and Siglent probes are much better quality!Your statement about cars is incorrect.I happen to know from a friend that a Dacia Duster SUV comes standard with high quality Continental tyres.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:24:43 pm
content: Have you contacted Keysight directly about the problem? Perhaps ask them to replace your probes. Some people don't seem to notice the issue so they might not all be as bad as yours.Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pm

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:26:11 pm
content: I also do not understand why I should spend extra money for additional set of probes when I buy Brand Name scope.When I bought my Fluke DDMs I alway have excellent leads included and use it many years.And I do not need go to the shop for new one leads for my new one DMM's that cost hundreds USD.Probablynctnicolove cheap Chinese tools and think that all included accessories should be relapsed after new tool been unpackaged (including power cord)I'm not.And I do not want to warm up my scope 30 minutes before measurement. I keep it under stable room temperature and it should work after power on with no issue.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on June 17, 2017, 08:26:11 pmSidenote: All instruments need to warm up because they get warm internally which causes drift. There is no way around that and usually it takes 15 to 30 minutes on an oscilloscope. Some equipment may even require a 12 hours warm up period.You have to have realistic expectations and many acessoires which come with equipment are there to get started but they are definitely not the highest end/most useful ones. You are not going to get $500 worth of probes together with a $600 oscilloscope. Same with DMMs. Keysight and Fluke may throw in a decent pair of probes but if you want better probes you have to buy them seperately. I'm also not using the probes which came with most of the DMMs I bought (including the ones which came with my Keysight 34461) because I have better ones. Also the 34461 didn't come with Kelvin probes for 4 wire resistance measurements so I needed to buy that seperately.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 08:55:42 pm
content: To come back to the original question:Compared with other low-cost scopes, the Keysight 1000 X series is more expensive.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 17, 2017, 08:49:02 pmReally?For calibration or for daily use? For calibration - sure. For daily use - not!If your tools highly dependent from internal temperature changing that is mean that your tools has been poor projected.What you mean $ 500 passive probes?I bought $ 200 probes, have you seenmy report?Relax please

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on June 17, 2017, 09:04:25 pmIf you think waiting for calibration is OK, why do you think waiting to take measurements is not OK? What is the difference? The instrument, to operate at specifications level, needs a warmup period. But the instrument is yours, use it as you wish.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:11:17 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pmRigol lawyers will be in contact with you shortly for stealing attributes that belong to their products.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:13:47 pm
content: Quote from: TK on June 17, 2017, 09:09:10 pmWhy you perform calibration for your passive probes, mm..?Why my N2843A calibration solid like are rock and N2140A not?What reason of your question?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on June 17, 2017, 09:11:17 pmCorrection: Keysight should pay licensing fees to use attributes that Rigol and Siglent are no longer using already for a long time, and therefore have decided to license out.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:16:12 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on June 17, 2017, 09:11:17 pm

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:30:28 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 09:14:56 pmYes, attributes that they stole from big scope manufacturers to start their business...

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:31:51 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 09:14:56 pmDid you know that Rigol started as a contract manufacturer for low end Agilent/Keysight scopes?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 09:55:47 pm
content: Please stick with the main subject: Keysight 1000X series and the reported quality issues on that model.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 10:39:28 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 09:55:47 pmYou didn't answer my question - have you contacted Keysight directly about this problem and asked for a set of replacement probes?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:01:35 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on June 17, 2017, 10:39:28 pmI don't think he even owns the 1000X

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:46:30 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on June 17, 2017, 10:39:28 pmReplacement to what? If you following thread about probes issue, it still under Keysight investigation...Have you any experience (been employment) with company like this one? Probably no.Simple issue be stuck on bureaucracy between support team and marketing team.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:48:50 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on June 17, 2017, 11:46:30 pmTheSteve was asking pascal_sweden... You should contact keysight and request new probes, as no one else seems to have the same problem or not as bad as yours

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2017, 11:52:54 pm
content: Quote from: TK on June 17, 2017, 11:48:50 pmYou should bought DSOX series scope instead EDUX and try to hack it up to DSOX, right?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 am
content: I am just looking for a general scope for use in projects in electronic/mechanical/control/mechatronic engineering at university level. Possible uses include checking the response of filter and sensor circuits, checking the outputs of motor controllers to see what signals are sent to the motors, checking if the receiver of a remote controller is receiving the same signals as signals sent from the sender, measuring the power consumption and current of the motors, etc.I just out a few labs in several universities. It seems that 300MHz is the popular bandwidth. The ability to save the data either via a memory card inserted into the scope or via connection to a PC is important as I need to do post-processing to analyze the data and for plotting for reports.Is it better to get 300MHz just in case? After hacking, what is the max bandwidth for the Rigol DZ1054Z?Do the other two scopes have problem with discontinuity like the one described at 5:53 in the video?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:15:02 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 amI think it is around 130MHz. If you need 300MHz, you are talking about mid range scopes ($3-6K), not the low cost ones.Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 amThe other scopes do not have a Wave Generator, so the problem you are asking does not apply. The keysight 1000X G models are the only ones with Wave Generator.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:30:31 am
content: Thanks. What is around 130MHz? Do you mean for things that I want to do, a scope with a bandwidth of 130MHz should be sufficient?I have a function generator. If I get the keysight scope, I may get the one with a Wave Generator if the educational training materials require it. So, that discontinuity problem is caused by the built-in Wave Generator?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 01:02:12 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:30:31 amI think the discontinuity (actually is the frequency step granularity, but you have a frequency fine setting that allows you to work in smaller steps) is not an issue or problem, it is the way you set the frequency of the wave generator. It makes a jump at 1 KHz (and probably at different points as well) to make the data entry faster. Adding the capability to enter directly the frequency is a feature Keysight might consider in future firmware upgrades.If you get the keysight scope, get one with the wavegen as it will give you FRA (Frequency Response Analysis) tool and the education training signals.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 01:08:59 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 am300MHz is about as high as you can go with normal probes. Universities get massive discounts, I don't think I'd want to buy a 300MHz 'scope with my own money though.Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 amYou don't need anything like 300Mhz for the things you've mentioned.A Rigol's bandwidth after hacking is 100MHz (although it's more like 130MHz in practice). Plenty for what you want to do.Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 amThey don't have a built-in function generator, so, "no". :-)(nb. This also means they don't do bode plots)

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 01:32:53 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 18, 2017, 01:08:59 amI would like to add that not all the scopes with built-in function generator does bode plot, not even keysight 2000X with function generator does bode plot currently, only 1000X AFAIK

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 02:02:59 am
content: Quote from: TK on June 17, 2017, 08:24:02 pmWhat you are basically hearing is the whining of a Keysight hater. A fan boy of brands, which by most measures, are considered inferior by the majority of professional users. Take his uninformed, terribly biased criticism with an enormous pinch of salt.The overarching advantage of Keysight are things not readily expressed in spec sheets. Responsiveness of the UI is second to none in this price range (and at much higher price points as well), construction as experienced through things like quality rotary encoders, and support is excellent as well, should you ever need it. If you're going to get something other than the Keysight, do yourself a favor and DO NOT try it out. You'll remain forever frustrated with the overall unpolished nature of the scopes competing in this range.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:11:54 am
content: I own the DSOX1102G (100MHz wis the wave gen). No issues whatsoever with probe compensation drifting in regular day to day use. This is an overblown and/or isolated issue. I also have plenty of other quality Tek probes to choose from, but have not felt the need.Very fast, responsive UI.Excellent firmware.Excellent help system.Built in training signals are helpful to learn the scope.No crashes.No bugs.Built in wave gen is very useful and has built in triggering.I wish there was a faster way to choose the trigger source. I am used to switches on analog scopes.As mentioned Bode plot needs improvement.MegaZoom is very nice and easy to use.My fan is pretty darned quiet.Excellent customer service with Daniel around here to help solve issues.Smells like that new electronics smell. Like it *really* smells like that new electronics smell.Wish it had some sort of probe holder clips rather than a handle, would be more useful.Overall winner, winner, chicken dinner.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 07:15:12 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on June 18, 2017, 04:11:54 am"Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".This is definitely not an overblown and/or isolated issue!Did you look at the pictures of the probes inside?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-scope-1st-march-2017/msg1220323/#msg1220323Imagine that all the signal measurements in your fancy lab experiments on your new smelling scope have to pass through that ugly wire!These pictures confirm black on white, that Keysight has choosen to deliver the 1000X with the most crappiest probes on Earth.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 07:28:19 am
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 02:02:59 amNow you are sugar coating things. I sold my Agilent DSO7104A and kept the GW Instek GDS2204E because amongst other things the latter is easier to use.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:51:58 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2017, 07:15:12 am..so get some other probes. Cheap scopes are always shipped with cheap probes. You're not forced to use them. I've almost never used a scope with the probes it came with.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 10:09:35 am
content: "Happy Keysight user that has no clue whatsoever about the inferior quality of the probes that are delivered with the 1000X series".Do you really believe that is only the probes?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:01:06 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 18, 2017, 10:09:35 amYou are probably right! Most likely they have cut corners on the hardware inside as well.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:08:42 amRegardless to the number of channels and cost, how do you rank the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z (I will probably hack it) in order of suitability to the usages described above? Of course, being able to measure things accurately is the 1st priority. This is followed by nice and smooth GUI (don't like the lags in responsiveness). The ability to store data is also important.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:34:10 pm
content: Has anyone apart from pascal_sweden had problems with the Keysight probes? Mine seem fine. It might seem like a common issue, but you'll find the hundreds of comments about it are from just one person.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 12:58:08 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on June 18, 2017, 10:09:35 amAny evidence to the contrary?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 01:09:48 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pm"Regardless of cost"? How does that work?Do you also compare things like cars on that basis?Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pmAll will do it...Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pm...but the Keysight/Instek will cost you double/triple money to get a bit better UI response.Your call.(And if cost isn't an issue, why stop there? Why are you looking at toy oscilloscopes like these?)

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 02:14:56 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pmIf you disregard the items where the KeySight is at a disadvantage (namely channels and cost), the KeySight -- surprise! -- looks quite good in this comparison.It seems like you are already "emotionally invested" in the KeySight. So if what you expect from this thread is confirmation that buying the KeySight is fine, then by all means go ahead and buy it. It is a nice scope, and you have just redefined your criteria to exclude the items that might raise doubts.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 03:01:30 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 18, 2017, 02:14:56 pmThe "emotional investment" is clearly on the side of the perpetual Keysight bashers. No evidence needed, they "just know" that terrible compromises have been made at the board level, for sure. We don't need any evidence.Yes, Keysight gear will always be at a premium over its Chinese knockoff competitors, like any company that provides decent support and a good user experience.There's really no difference between this and the angry defenders of bargain priced cell phones or cheap cars. The value segment has its merits, but I've become intolerant of crap companies and their ameteur hour support systems and attention to things not appearing on spec sheets, like the UI experience.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 03:08:32 pm
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 18, 2017, 12:27:33 pmCan you elaborate on what kind of data you want to store and how you want to process it? I think your first concern should be memory depth. How much data do you need to collect? Then come things like connectivity (LAN, USB or local storage) and the transfer speed you need.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 03:42:29 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 03:01:30 pmHave you actually read my post, GlowingGhoul? It was not that long...I found it a bit amusing that fishandchips, in his most recent post, defined a set of assessment criteria which seem to specifically exclude those areas where competing scopes have advantages. Hence, my slightly tongue-in-cheek comment. But I actually assume that fishandchips has aready made up his mind -- he seems to value the usability higher than those other aspects, hence favors the Keysight. (Which clearly has advantages in usability, UI responsiveness etc.)No "bashing" in that comment; and I do not want to be associated with any "perpetual Keysight bashers", thank you very much.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 03:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 03:01:30 pmYou didn't actually read the post you quoted before going all ballistic, did you?

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 03:56:49 pm
content: Topicstarter, just go to Amazone and buy any scope that like you.... one month you thinking....Ready to wait tons updates and still have bugs? Buy Chinese scope.Just want to use it and enjoy it? Buy Keysight

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2017, 07:15:12 amWow! Ad hominem attacks calling me clueless? You, sir, have likely never even touched one of these scopes. You do not own one. You seem to have some vendetta against Keysight. That is your prerogative. But do not insult me and claim to have any clue about my knowledge about the quality of a product I actually own and use.Please state for the record if you own one of these scopes. You have been avoiding this question for five pages of posts.Please state for the record if you personally have ever even touched one of these 1000 series scopes. All you have done is linked other threads.If you do not answer these questions I can't see how anyone can take you seriously with hearsay "evidence."Your relevance to the conversation is pretty much nil if you have no experience with the product.I think it is clear to everyone else that someone who does not own and use a product must be clueless about that product. I *am* likely clueless about whatever brand of cheap scope of which you are an acolyte (unless it is Tek).I get that fanbois will be fanbois, but there is no need to insult people here. Take that to other forums. I understand the quality of the probes. As I stated previously I own multiple high quality Tek probes. Do I think the probes that came with the scope are high quality? No. They are adequate quality for most uses. Would I take free high end replacement probes from Keysight? Who wouldn't. I understand that scopes that are less than a grand or two USD are low end scopes. I don't expect perfection from them.I stated that in day to day measurements I am not having any issues with drift of the probe compensation. That is true. Perhaps my lab has more stable temperature than yours. Perhaps you technique is somehow flawed. Perhaps mine is.But take your insults elsewhere, andplease disclaim your comments with your lack experience with the product in question. This is a very common issue online, where people come in a repeat things they hear about brand X or product Y, often lacking a grasp of those products due to an utter lack of experience with said product. These "me too" parrot like postings are not useful to anyone. To your credit you did link the source of you parrot posting in at least one case. Please don't claim to be an authority on a product you have likely never touched. I own this scope. I use it most days. I own other scopes as well, and pick the right scope for the job to the best of my ability.I am not a Keysight fanboy. I own two Keysight products (lots of older HP stuff). The scope is very good for the money. It is a joy to use for anyone coming from zero-lag analog scopes. The Rigols and such are just too sluggish. They drive me nuts. If you are used to slow electronics, where turning a knob has a delay before you see anything then it might be fine for you. If you are the kind of person who likes how there is a huge delay before it takes a picture when you press the button on your camera phone then you may like it. If you are used to the instant picture when you press the button like on a pro SLR then get the Keysight. Note: I have not used a Rigol every day, only demoed one for a couple of days. So you must discount my opinions on Rigol.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:09:40 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on June 18, 2017, 03:56:49 pm...and pay twice (or three times) the price. For less channels.nb. I'mnotsaying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 18, 2017, 04:09:40 pmIf he considering two channels scope, that this is enough for him task. If him need more analog channels simultaneously, that Keysight out of game for this budget

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:23:06 pm
content: The lack of four channels can be an issue. I just cascade to other scopes to see a lot of waveforms at once.Note that if you get the wave gen option then you can trigger off the wave gen internally and still see the external trigger "pseudo-channel" along with the other two real channels. So you do not have to use up the trigger channel just to get a sync to your waveform source.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 04:44:48 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on June 18, 2017, 04:23:06 pmTwo Keysights is better than one! You can never have enough Keysights!(and if you have no bread you can simply eat cake instead!)

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 07:57:56 pm
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on June 18, 2017, 04:01:31 pmI don't own a Keysight 1000X scope, and neither have touched it. I have worked over many years with many different scopes though at the university (both analog and digital, Keysight, Tektronix, Hameg, Rigol, etc.).I don't see the need for owning one personally, given the detailed pictures available of the probe insights, and the detailed reports on the drift issue.Why I am pushing so hard for getting a resolution on this probe compensation drift issue:The issue has been reported since April 28th, and Keysight has even acknowledged that they managed to reproduce the issue. But after they haven't provided any updates. We are now more than 6 weeks further, and still no resolution. It almost looks like they have dropped the investigation.You Keysight fanboys keep bragging about the excellent support from Keysight. Where is that excellent support from your favorite A-brand now? They haven't put any focus on this issue to come up with a resolution, after they acknowledged the issue. More than 6 weeks lead-times is not what one expects from an A-brand. Or what do you Keysight fanboys understand under "good support from Keysight"?Please elaborate on this!Pictures have been provided about concerns of the quality of the probe. Keysight has deliberately choosen not to answer on this. They are just ignoring the question.Now a question back to you: Have you looked at the pictures of the probe insights? Really? Hard to believe! Low quality probe is even an understatement if you look at the picture.Both Keysight and Keysight fanboys are all hypocrites IMO. Living in their own world, and denying that it is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE to deliver such a crappy probes. Even a 10 year old kid would agree on that.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:05:40 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2017, 07:57:56 pmFFS get over it. It's only the probe, and it's only 100MHz.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:43:35 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2017, 07:57:56 pmPerhaps your time is better spend with banging on Rigol's and Siglent's doors: their firmware doesn't even work right especially on new products. A probe is easy to replace but buggy firmware is a far more severe problem.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:46:28 pm
content: Do I get a free pair of nice probes if I jump on the hate-train? If so..It's also a complete non-issue for me. And I do own the scope!

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:55:22 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 18, 2017, 01:09:48 pmSorry for not being clear. I think the cost of the Keysight and Instek scopes I mentioned are similar while the Rigol one is about 1/3 the price. Certainly cannot afford to pay over $2500.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 08:58:17 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on June 18, 2017, 03:42:29 pmNo. I am open to all three scopes. From what I read, the Instek seems to be better than the Rigol. Not sure how the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz and the GW Instek GDS-2204E are compared. Perhaps the Keysight scope has only two channels but better GUI while the Instek scope has four channels but the GUI is not as responsible and nice looking as the Keysight scope?Can anybody who has used both the Keysight DSOX1102G 100 MHz and the GW Instek GDS-2204E please do a comparison?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:05:16 pm
content: If you are willing to spend ~€1300 on the Instek, there are many options for you.I'm certain Keysight would accept that offer for their DSOX2024Ahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Keysight-Used-DSOX2024A-Oscilloscope-4-channel-200MHz-Agilent-/172727327642

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:05:43 pm
content: The Instek GDS-2204E offers more features and deeper memory. It sits at a higher level than the Keysight 1000X which is after all is an entry level scope (a quick user interface only goes so far).

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:08:55 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on June 18, 2017, 08:46:28 pmBut Pascal_Sweden and his ilk thinks you're an idiot, who doesn't know what's good for you, lol! Doesn't that keep you up at night?

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:12:40 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 09:08:55 pmOf course I'm disappointed the probes don't match the quality of the scope itself, but I have a bunch already - and they are notthatbad. They just drift a bit more than my other ones.

author: GlowingGhoul
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2017, 09:05:43 pmLooking at the long list of glitches, incorrect specifications, crappy customer service, and the palpable "sigh of relief" each time Instek releases a new version of the firmware, obviously knowing that's no sure thing, leads anyone making a purchase decision to ask if there time is worth slogging through this, along with wondering how long Instek will continue to put effort into supporting this scope.Again, if you're counting pennies, it's nice to have a tool that can get the job done in exchange for putting up with loads of bullshit, minor and major. For those whose time has value, they would be better off looking at a professional piece of equipment. The pain of the cost premium will fade, while the stench of cheapness will never dissipate.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-gds2204e-(200mhz-4-channel-dso)-review/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:27:55 pm
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 09:18:25 pmI think you should read where a link points to before making statements which aren't true. Now you are just making a fool out of yourself!

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:33:21 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on June 18, 2017, 09:05:16 pmThe last time I tried they rejected an offer that was only $100 down... and they charge sales tax in the US and they do not include accessories and probes (if you are lucky you get them, but they cannot confirm). That particular unit has warranty active until 3/22/2022

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2017, 09:47:44 pm
content: Of course I have looked at the pictures of the probes. Even better, I have looked at the actual probes. Of course I don't think the interior construction looks high quality. Honestly, they don't feel bad in the hand, but probe feel is absurdly subjective and meaningless between users. However, I only expect marginally better given the price point. You don't get a Mercedes for the price of a Kia.However, since I have actually used the scope I can say that the probes have been a non-issue in practice.If one looks at pascal_sweden's umpteen posts in this and the other 1000X threads all he or she will find is complaint after complaint, attacks on Keysight's customer service, etc. all about a product he has never even put a finger on. Do you like to constantly complain to Fluke about how the 87V should default to DC amps instead of AC amps in current mode? They have known about this for years, but haven't even acknowledged it. They are horrible... no service.It gets old, and contributes absolutely nothing.Again more ad hominem attacks on Keysight users even. This sounds like a Mac/PC flame war or something, except the guy arguing about it uses a Commodore and has never touched a Mac or a PC.Daniel acknowledged the issue immediately. At least Keysight *has* a representative here. It takes more than a week or two to redesign or remanufacture a large scale product. If you think the probes are useless than take into the account the cost of a better pair when purchasing. You will likely want to have at least three probes anyway.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 08:43:59 am
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on June 18, 2017, 09:12:40 pmWhile I prefer my set of Tek probes, I have used the N2140A probes on the DSOX1102G. They are OK and I had no problems with them. About what I would expect to get with the scope.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 09:48:38 am
content: I think somebody suggested to stay away from Tektronix's scopes. Am I correct?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2017, 10:56:32 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 19, 2017, 09:48:38 amYes, you are correct that someone suggested this.Seriously, the consensus seems to be that Tek's mid-range scopes have lacked innovation over many years now, and are lagging behind the competition. Their new four- to eight-channel high end platform, which was just released earlier this month, seems to be a big step forward. But I assume it will be years until that new generation of technology percolates down to the mid-range and entry level scopes which most of us can afford.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 05:45:48 am
content: both correct, but tek's probes are... uuuugh. fantastic.every few months a lot of NOS tek probes of various flavours comes up on ebay (europe). That's how i got my high frequency / low capacitance probes for like 30€ each

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 08:28:57 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 20, 2017, 05:45:48 am+1 to that. It's not about the performance, but the ergonomics. I've always used the P6131 /P6139 type probes - the cable is thin and very flexible, the probe is short and light, with a small pin, so you can just hang the probe in a through-hole, draping the cable over the bench light, for hand-free probing without clips or test points on the PCB.Also for high-frequency probing, the small diameter of the barrel makes it easier to make nice grippy ground contacts by winding some tinned-copper wire round it.AFAICS there's no reason that cheaper probes couldn't be made the same way, but everyone seems to just copy the traditional big, clunky form factor.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 10:45:51 am
content: and all the accessories and goodies that come in the bag!and the 100 pages long manuals for older probes

author: awallin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 10:42:57 am
content: WTF did Farnell just bump the price of the 100MHz DSOX1102A from 609 euros just a few days ago to now 825 euros?!?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 11:06:26 am
content: http://it.farnell.com/keysight-technologies/dsox1102a/osc-archiv-digitale-70mhz-2-ca/dp/2690192632 eur1102G is 825 though

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 01:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on June 22, 2017, 11:06:26 amDo those prices include VAT, or does it come on top?The Farnell website is surprisingly unclear in that respect; it says "VAT: unknown" for me (in Germany).

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2017, 01:57:10 pm
content: ex-vat of courseso he either clicked on the wrong product page, or he is seeing prices with VAT, or farnell had a temporary senile moment

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 11:08:32 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 17, 2017, 08:04:09 pmcontrol yourself lady. its not an active probe you moaning about.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 01:29:13 am
content: Quote from: diyaudio on June 23, 2017, 11:08:32 pmTry opening up an active probe and looking at the soldering, these low volume boards with low numbers of components as used in the matching networks (termination) are usually hand assembled and look just like the pictures posted so far. Unwashed flux? thats the recommended application for many fluxes!

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 02:34:35 am
content: I tried out the Tektronix TDS 3032B scope. It is very very noisy. How the Keysight 1000x series, GW Instek GDS-2204E and the Rigol DS1054Z ranked when comparing their noise level with respect to the TDS 3032B? Thanks

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 03:37:12 am
content: Quote from: fishandchips on June 25, 2017, 02:34:35 amCan you post the settings used as well as the signal source? Do you have any pictures to share?

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 04:00:34 am
content: Quote from: TK on June 25, 2017, 03:37:12 amSorry for the misunderstanding. By noisy, I meant the sound level rather than the signal noise.

author: Amazing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 04:27:15 am
content: Quote from: Someone on June 24, 2017, 01:29:13 amNot to push one brand over another here, but I opened up my Lecroy 2.5GHz active probe a while back and it was pristine on the inside. I'm sure any of the $3000 keysight probes would be the same.Last week I opened one of the Keysight N2843A 500MHz probes that came new with my 3000T, and it was pretty messy. Not quite as bad as sergio's pics, but close. Pretty disappointing. Clearly it was made CHEAP.But hey, it works and is up to spec so what can I really complain about?

author: TechnoTroll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 10:34:57 am
content: Does anyone know if Keysight will take late model Agilent scopes as trade ins? If yes how can this be done.

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 05:57:26 pm
content: Quote from: TechnoTroll on June 26, 2017, 10:34:57 amhttp://tradein.em.keysight.com/en/KTI-0130Also, the N2843A passive probes and a multi-GHz active probe will use dramatically different manufacturing techniques and tolerances.

author: TechnoTroll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 02:05:28 am
content: Thanks Daniel, it seems like the discounted Keysight store on eBay may offer better value though. A thought, if the scope was purchased from the Keysight store on eBay, would it qualify for the free DSOX1102G offer?

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 04:49:45 am
content: Quote from: TechnoTroll on June 27, 2017, 02:05:28 amI don't know, I'd recommend sending them a quick message and see what they say. I don't work closely with the Keysight eBay store folks.

author: fishandchips
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2017, 09:47:07 pm
content: Hello All, I ended up buying the Micsig tBook mini TO1104. Thank you all of you for your replies.

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 01:42:29 pm
content: Are there any competitive model with frequency response analyzing function as with Keysight DSOX1102G ?I cannot find any in $1000 price range.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 02:01:44 pm
content: AD2 to 10MHz:"Network analyzer – Bode, Nyquist, Nichols transfer diagrams of a circuit. Range: 1Hz to 10MHz"https://reference.digilentinc.com/reference/instrumentation/analog-discovery-2/reference-manualPicoScope 2000 mostly to 1MHz, 3rd party software:https://bitbucket.org/hexamer/fra4picoscope/wiki/Home

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 08, 2017, 03:41:51 pm
content: Quote from: rigol52 on August 08, 2017, 01:42:29 pmTo my knowledge, there aren't anybenchtopscopes with this capability, but some USB scopes do (See MrW0lf's comment).

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 09:51:22 pm
content: Thank you, both, for info.In meantime I found another interesting (8 in 1) USB solution with Frequency Response Analyzer in $1000 price range:http://www.analogarts.com/products/8-in-1-frequency-response-analyzer/sf880-high-performanceNot really cheap but according factory data pretty capable.Seem no Analog Arts instruments tested on eevblog yet?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 10:02:17 pm
content: Wouldn't it make more sense to use a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator output for that price tag?

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 11:06:39 pm
content: That SF880 has some pretty extraordinary specs for the price. Interesting.

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 12:54:02 am
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on August 09, 2017, 10:02:17 pmNot sure.I would prefer Keysight DSOX1102G great Frequency Response Analyzing function over double priced (say Rigol) frequency analyzer.But seems that Analog Arts SF880 is even more capable, at least according factory data

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 02:38:02 am
content: I've started another thread on the AA SF880 to help keep things on topic herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/analog-arts-sf880/

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 09:03:54 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on August 10, 2017, 02:38:02 amThanks and sorry for little mess here.Question to "Keysight DanielBogdanoff":Are there any delay in plot finalizing with Keysight DSOX1102G Frequency Response Analyzing presentation, or it is plotted in time with measured parameter changing?

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 03:57:58 pm
content: Go to around 19:00 in this video and you can see it in action.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 04:29:41 pm
content: Keysight released a patch with better FRA resolution after the video was published.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-1000-x-series-oscilloscope-fra-patch-coming/msg1220002/#msg1220002

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 10:03:42 am
content: A little surprised with slow speed FRA plot.FRA should be very resource consumptive in processing?Are there way to speed up FRA plotting response (by lower resolution, sampling)?

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 04:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: rigol52 on August 11, 2017, 10:03:42 amBy changing the points-per-decade setting, to a lower number of points the FRA will plot faster (and have lower resolution). We put a lot of engineering effort (and secret sauce) into making sure we get the best possible FRA plot, so there are a lot of other factors that contribute to the test time. But, if you want a quicker plot you can just lower the resolution.

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 06:31:09 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on June 18, 2017, 07:57:56 pmAhh.

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2020, 06:34:02 pm
content: Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on June 18, 2017, 08:46:28 pmIt's strange. The people who seems to have the biggest problem with them, are those who do not own the probes (and in some cases never ever has tested or touched them).

author: Eric_S
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2020, 11:19:09 am
content: The thread was bumped from 2017?

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 09:46:38 am
content: Quote from: GlowingGhoul on June 18, 2017, 09:08:55 pmReading Pascal´s endless trolling and religious hate campaign against brand name manufactures (any hyping cheap Chinise brands as the salvation the worlds all problems) really makes me feel ashamed for also being Swedish.Quote from: TheAmmoniacal on June 18, 2017, 09:12:40 pmLooking for maybe buying a four channel version in the 1000x series, as one possible option (also considering R&S, Siglent and others), I also look for buying a good set of probes regardless which scope I go with (in my price range they all tend to come with not so good probes). Been looking at probes from Testec like these;https://www.testec.de/en/products/product-categories/standard-probes/Anyone who has used them and can come with an opinion on them (would like at lest 200MHz probes with silicon leads and good firm gold tips)?

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 09:53:02 am
content: Quote from: FlyingHacker on June 18, 2017, 09:47:44 pmI wonder why some people like PascalSwede get to be so religious and brand zealots, to the point that they put their life time and effort in dissing some brands and hyping other brands?Why can not both companies and products be assessed for what they are, on their own merits, without all that constant religious crap?Do not understand such behaviour at all (regardless if scopes or computers).

author: martinot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 10:39:43 am
content: Quote from: Eric_S on June 30, 2020, 11:19:09 amYes. Reading up on different scope threads in preparation for selecting a good scope, and new scopes introduced in 2017 is still valid for me to consider.Keysight released new scopes in the series two years ago with some new black four channel versions, and just in this year (2020) they released new 2 channel versions in the 1000x series. Seems to be 2 channel versions based on the black four channel versions; i.e. including all serial decoding options that is very attractive for some of my usage (especially CAN bus).Will consider many different brands and models, but might be that a scope in the Keysight 1000 x series will be one possible choice for me to consider.BTW; what scope do you use yourself?

author: rigol52
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2020, 07:43:38 pm
content: For us amateurs main problems are prices not brands.