What is Thermaltronics 'color band' patent? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 06:33:49 pm
content: Thermaltronics' solder cartridges have a 'patented color band'.http://www.thermaltronics.com/datasheet/M7WV300Anybody knows what this patent is about? I presume that it has more depth than just 'let's add a color band to identity the cartridge'. Is it about the process of making this temperature stable color band? Is it about the handle detecting it somehow?

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 06:40:14 pm
content: To aid in the selection of the correct temperature profile, Thermaltronics solder cartridges are color coded for easy identification. This unique and patented feature has additional benefits in both inventory management and quality control.

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 07:04:15 pm
content: A patent is "simply and only" a technical solution for a problem; in this case, soldering cartdrige identification.The identification of a cartdrige by a color band is a Termatronics solution, and they have patented it, so that no other brand (depending on the patent/country limitations) can use their solution without paying them royalties.It's dead simple, but many smart solutions are this way!

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 11:10:44 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on June 24, 2015, 06:40:14 pmThis sounds to obvious for a patent. Do you happen to have the patent number? I couldn't find it in a patent search.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 06:39:43 am
content: Quote from: zapta on June 24, 2015, 11:10:44 pmThis came from a leaflet, I tried to find the patent but failed also.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 07:12:37 am
content: Quote from: mcinque on June 24, 2015, 07:04:15 pmWhat a crock!Colour coding bands have been used to identify countless objects, there is nothing the least bit innovative about this

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 07:13:25 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on June 25, 2015, 06:39:43 amThey probably applied for the patent and got

author: mcinque
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 11:35:06 am
content: QuoteI never used the term "innovative" in my post; of course a patent MUST be innovative to be accepted, but maybe this patent coversonly the thermal resistent coloured varnishfor example, not the use itself to identify things, who knows?

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 12:19:04 pm
content: Has anyone tried to patent the resistor colour code? I see various patents on methods of applying those bands though.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 04:07:12 pm
content: I found this onehttp://www.google.com/patents/US20110168686The main claim isQuoteSo it's looks obvious after all. Basically just slapping a color mark on an existing Metcal cartridge.Dealing with patents in the past, I am surprised that this patent was granted.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 04:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on June 25, 2015, 04:07:12 pmAs I understand it, that patent hasn't been granted, it's just an application.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 04:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 25, 2015, 04:22:26 pmI think you are right. Makes more sense.Edit: it was granted in Chinahttp://www.google.com/patents/CN201871843Uso if this is not Thermaltronics' patent they will have hard time manufacturing in China.Quote

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 09:11:34 pm
content: Let's imagine that I'm selling live monkeys... and my company uses bicycle couriers to deliver the monkeys in the city I operate in...Then I'd apply a patent for "using bicycle couriers for the delivery of live monkeys", and get it, because nobody had done that before. Now even though delivering things by bicycle courier is a perfectly regular thing, anyone who wants to deliverlive monkeyswith bicycle couriers owes me a royalty.That just sounds so failed on so many levels.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 10:46:52 pm
content: Remember those old days metal pen refillfs with color marking on them? They should easily cause a rejection due to prior art, though I doubt if that patent will be approved in the US anyway, due to obviousnes.

author: nitro2k01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 03:58:00 am
content: Inductive heating for a soldering iron, using the Curie effect for temperature control is a relatively new idea. So at first I thought Thermaltronics were just trying to figure out something novel they could patent to get a lead over the pioneer in the field, Metcal. (Because remember, before Curie points soldering irons, a tip did not have a specific temperature like that.) Then when doing a bit of research, I found this onThermaltronics' about page:QuoteSo it seems like some higher-ups left Metcal and started Thermaltronics. I wonder if we're going to see lawsuits issued in the near future.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 04:18:40 am
content: Quote from: nitro2k01 on June 26, 2015, 03:58:00 amAs I recall Metcal patents expired not too long ago allowing other players to get in the game.It's somewhere in this forum that I read about it.Found some looking for "metcal patent expired" and placed links from older to newer.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/metcal-tips/msg423498/#msg423498https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/soldering-station-dilemma-pace-(prc-2000)-vs-some-other-(metcal-jbc-xytronic)/msg42930/#msg42930https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/metcal-mx-5251/msg417681/#msg417681https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/thermaltronics-tmt-9000s-review/msg95343/#msg95343https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diy-metcal-13-56-mhz-rf-supply/msg243349/#msg243349

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 07:08:33 am
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on June 25, 2015, 09:11:34 pmThat's only if you start delivering live monkeys after the patent is granted, if you were in the business beforehand you can continue without any problems.Its called grandfather rights here in the UK.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 01:55:34 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on June 25, 2015, 10:46:52 pmThe US patent office is a stamp factory, you pay the fee, they stamp your document - no questions asked. The US patent system is flooded with thousands of obvious (and ridiculous) patents.The US is the country where Amazon patented saving your payment information so you can check-out in a webshop with a single click. Or where Microsoft patented double-clicking a mouse. It's the holy land of patent trolls and blood-sucking lawyers.Quote from: G7PSK on June 26, 2015, 07:08:33 amWell... that's still failed, in that case (if someone other than the patent owner is already delivering monkeys with bicycles), the patent shouldn't have been granted on basis of prior art.Anyway, "using (obvious solution) A for (generic random use-case) B" is not a technical solution. I'd argue it's not even an idea."Using salt to make soylent green taste better" should not be patentable in any sane system, even if nobody had done it before.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 03:26:31 pm
content: Quote from: Sigmoid on June 26, 2015, 01:55:34 pmThat's not my experience. I found that they often reject with frivolous arguments and you need to appeal to get it through.I will be very surprised in the first claim in the Themartronics' US application will be approved. The fact that that 2011 application is still pending is encouraging.Quote from: Sigmoid on June 26, 2015, 01:55:34 pmObviousness is determined by the time of filling, not by the practice 10 years later when it becomes a common practice.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 03:43:23 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on June 26, 2015, 03:26:31 pmThe double click patent was issued in 2004.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 04:30:51 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on June 26, 2015, 03:43:23 pmWhen was it filed?Do you have the patent number so we can see what is exactly claims?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 04:43:03 pm
content: It wasn't just double click but how you doubled clicked:http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn5072-microsoft-gains-doubleclicking-patent.html

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2015, 04:46:11 pm
content: "A method and system are provided for extending the functionality of application buttons on a limited resource computing device. Alternative application functions are launched based on the length of time an application button is pressed. A default function for an application is launched if the button is pressed for a short, i.e., normal, period of time. An alternative function of the application is launched if the button is pressed for a long, (e.g., at least one second), period of time. Still another function can be launched if the application button is pressed multiple times within a short period of time, e.g., double click."It was applied for in 99, "a limited resource computing device" covers all computers without infinite resources...Though I've got to admit I think this is one, unlike the later patent on double clicking owned by Honeywell, was MS covering it's arse and not planning to use it to go after competition. I do know there's a couple of times MS have applied for patents just to demonstrate how unfit for purpose the system now is.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2015, 01:46:38 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on June 26, 2015, 04:46:11 pmThis one seems to be about short vs long press rather than double click. IIRC double clicks were common prior art at 1999.Also, it shouldn't be too difficult to workaround this one. For example there are easy ways to distinguish between short and long presses without "(b) determining the length of time the application button has been pressed"

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2015, 01:55:21 am
content: The question is: does "limited resource computing device" cover dedicated embedded systems as well? if so various Garmin and other GPSes implemented that sort of button functionality way back in the '90s. If not, a trawl through the world of old gaming systems would probably invalidate it as well.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2015, 05:17:07 am
content: Quote from: zapta on June 25, 2015, 10:46:52 pmThose pens would have nothing to do with prior art - they are not soldering tips and the colors do not denote temperatures. That they look similar is irrelevant.