KICAD and dual monitors - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Messtechniker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 06:26:26 am
content: Is it possible with KICAD to have an overview of a complete (very large) pcb, for example, on one screen and a detail view of a smaller section of the same pcb on the second monitor?

author: woofy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 07:22:19 am
content: As far as I know two views of a PCB cannot be opened at the same time.Given the ease of zooming in and out on Kicad, I prefer to have the schematic up on the second monitor.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 09:08:53 am
content: There is a HTML BOM plugin which sort of does that. it's very good for component location for hand assembly although I suspect you want it more for routing (it shows board outline & components but no track details)

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2021, 07:09:38 pm
content: QuoteI don't think any package does that, but it would be super-cool if they would.I tried to approach this from the other end, using an 'art' graphics pad to work on a portion of the screen:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/graphical-tablets/msg3359382/#msg3359382

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2021, 03:35:56 am
content: You can have multiple instances of KiCad open at the same time, but it refuses to have two different instances of the same PCB open at the same time.Dual monitor setup in KiCad is mostly useful for viewing the PCB and schematic at the same time. Whenever you click on a schematic symbol, Pcbnew pans & zooms (adjustable) to that part on the PCB, and vise versa. When you select a footprint on the PCB, then the schematic pans to that part too.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2021, 02:48:50 pm
content: Quote from: Doctorandus_P on May 23, 2021, 03:35:56 amThis is a particularly useful feature (visual link between schema and pcb), especially with hierarchical sheet schemas. Even when using a single monitor for Kicad. Saves a lot of time. Yet another feature that leaves Eagle squarely in the rear view mirror...

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2021, 05:13:15 am
content: As a quick workaround: You can print a schematic to .SVG or .PDF and have that open in another program.I also like to have an extra few megapixels (at least 0.2mm square each) for viewing datasheets. Links to online datasheets are embedded in the symbol libraries, but internet is not fixed and those links may break. If you have your own datasheet collection, you can also modify the links to point directly to them. This gives quite quick access to datasheets of all IC's directly from your schematic.

author: metro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 25, 2021, 11:29:53 am
content: So, yes, you can, but there are caveats, and several ways to do so:So, first, remember that all the KiCAD tools essentially run on a python back-end. You can bring up a second view of the design you have open in PCBnew, and display that. I used to do that in one of the older versions a few years ago, but the python API has changed and the way I did it back then does not work anymore. However, I think you can still bring it up.Easier version, without python scripting, with one major caveat:Open a second instance of PCBnew and open your design. Yes, I am serious, sounds stupid, but bear with me. PCBnew will complain about another instance being open already. In practice, this however does work flawlessly for me with the current KiCAD 5.99 builds, and will give you two independent PCBnew windows in which you can then view different parts of the same PCB design. You can also make changes to it in BOTH PCBnew instances.The main caveat here is that you have to MANUALLY keep both PCBnew instances in sync, and that each PCB new instance will only link to its own schematic instance. In practice, you can do that by simply saving your design after every non-trivial change in one instance. When you then want to switch over to working on your second window, simply hit reload and you are good to go. I usually do not change my schematic much when doing the PCB design, besides re-arranging net-pad assignments, so just having an independent eschema instance attached to each applications is not an issue for me.For all of that to work smoothly, remember to turn off autosave in PCBnew, assuming that you are not just looking and navigating, but also editing your design. If you keep autosave on, one PCBnew instance will eventually changes of your design you are working on in the other view.Not nice, but it works... Hope this helps.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2021, 06:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Messtechniker on May 20, 2021, 06:26:26 amI have read comments above .. but YES it is possible.The way I do that (and did that sometimes in the past..)is simpler to say than actually do...Reason being is that the setup used to be more simple...things changed quite a lot.Early to late 90s XWindows was replaced by Xorg whichnow is heavily biased to that wayland thing more likelytrying to follow the MS shit single display account based paradigmThose changes implies a lot of facts:- Xwindows *is* de facto a networked display server- Xorg kept all the good features but extended some tidbitstrying to keep pace with very high resolution displays and GPUs.In the 90s to 00s SVGA monitors were simpler to arrangeand to maintain an Xorg server base...Today these crippled wayland and dummy single displayservers (like the buntus) make the arrange more complicated.The arrangement is not DUAL HEADED displayIt should be a DUAL HOMED display (or TRIPLE HOMED if you like)Being a network server.. you will login in your master X serveras many times you want running a full session independentof each one in which you can have multiple visions of a project.Obvious a extreme caution should be taken to actuallyhave an X server with multiple logins ...One thing that sold me completely to EAGLE in early 00swas the ability to have multiple 3D PovRay visions ona DUAL HOME setup..Each screen running the same project with modified layoutsfor comparison and optimization...large boards are just a special case of that..Nostalgic mid 90s project POVRAY rendered for fun...I used to have this on a DUAL HOMED SVGA setup under XWindowson my bench...Paul

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2021, 05:10:23 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 20, 2021, 07:09:38 pmMaybe it gets implemented at some point. Orcad PCB designer / Allegro supports a split view so the question is not outlandish

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2021, 05:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on June 26, 2021, 06:47:38 pmSeriously, would you mind to cut down on these rants? Such as the previous one on Windows 11 (where you have somehow managed to rant about systemd too) They both don't contribute much if anything to the debate and most of it is factually wrong (e.g. nothing in Xorg is based on Wayland, Wayland is a completely separate project, "XWindows" wasn't replaced by XOrg, you are confusing XWindow standard with XFree86, which XOrg is a fork of, etc).Multihomed displays you can have even today with X11, however multihomed setup != multiple monitors, multihoming means you have 2 or more "workstations" on one computer, including separate mouse and keyboard and it has nothing to do with networking ...Multiple monitors work just fine as well, including under Wayland - but then also theaplicationsneed to support it and nobody forces you to use Wayland. Even Ubuntu still ships XOrg.Andnone of this stuffin any way or form addresses the OP's problem. You can open a single app multiple times without any such "hacks", the reason why it doesn't work with KiCAD by default is because you will corrupt your data if you do that. It has nothing to do with the display server.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2021, 08:23:50 am
content: I do not rant. Rant is for chicks and juviesI also have to deal with some distros based on systemd and that thing is a problem.You may be not comfy with the terms used as they also changed along time.. but i have no mood to discuss semanticsBut using remote console on properly xinerama enabled or not apps with a remote server still requires you proper understanding of how things impact and interactLike gpu accel remote font server ssh ports and encryption and proper Xorg layout definitionThere is no rantSystemd just do not work that wayIt is meant to single display auto loginI have tried and dropped that systemdWayland thing. So you better try it right without both and let systemd for what is meantI assure you it worksMarvelous fastRemote dual homed screens each logged onsame X server Xfree XOrg or just any plain X windows session...Semantic apart like it or not it worksThe tip is good valid and properly advisedDo not cloud it with semantics or rantsPaul

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2021, 09:54:06 am
content: Quote from: Messtechniker on May 20, 2021, 06:26:26 amSure, when those monitors are connected to different pc's...

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2021, 10:50:23 am
content: Quote from: janoc on June 28, 2021, 05:39:29 pmI am also wondering *IF* we are talking on the same kind of setup...or we are on the same page...I never mentioned the stuff you rant about...as being replaced or ranting this that..Fact is attachedMy setup evolved from what you call XFree86.That bundle was prevalent in distros at 90s.Xorg is just another name to the very same protocol stack(all above layer 4) in which you do require your apps compiledwith -lXinerama to at least support multi heads.Despite that being a client-server only model the setuprequires all protocols available at compile time.My setup evolved from that and trying to bundle systemd andwayland was a huge waste of time in my case.Thus the 2 cents of advice I think are very handy.Far from being rants..And take a good look on how basic networking is required..If you wonder how X relates to network ... or SSHAll graphic ready in my setupso you just don not patronize me about non sense terms and basic stuff.Kinda of that do not fit at allFor the record currently I have successfully upgraded myscratch system to LLVM12 + MESA20 + GCC10In which I totally dropped systemd and all wayland protocol stackbecause they are a huge messy sack of problems...All already working fine as long as all clients are properlyaware or all required networked protocols at compile timeand got rid of those problemsFor the record BOTH are working Multi Head and Multi HomedAlso for the recordI never ever had any issue of corruption becausewhen doing that.. I take the proper measure at login savingproper state and isolating things properlyKinda a newbie stuff think someone will open same project2 or 3 times doing random changes... pathetic.2 cents of who already trailed thatfor those interested in succeeding properlyPaul

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2021, 09:16:15 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on June 29, 2021, 08:23:50 amBut none of what you wrote helps the OP, or even begins to answer the question.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2021, 08:55:05 am
content: Well if anyone for some reasonCan not see how you open a secondaryview of a large pcb using that method..Well that is beyond what i can reasonMethod is explained to the best i canwith my own setup and extensive considerations...Paul

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2021, 11:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 01, 2021, 08:55:05 amYou're missing the point. Kicad supports multiple monitors, because the Big Three Operating Systems support multiple monitors. I use Kicad on macOS, and it supports the three monitors I have (the iMac built-in 5k display and two 1920 x 1200 others). That is not what is being asked, and you'd understand that if you calmed down for a moment.The OP asks if Kicad can show two views of the same layout -- one zoomed out, one zoomed in.Everyone else on this thread agrees that it's a great idea, and everyone else understands that it's something Kicad doesn't support. It actually doesn't matter if the user's computer has more than one display; if it was supported it could do it on just one.Altium doesn't support this concept, either. I don't know about any other PCB CAD packages because I have access to only Kicad and Altium.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2021, 07:49:53 am
content: As pointed above the method allowsanyone and any package (like the eaglePovray example) to achieve multipleviews of a project regardless any othercosideration. Just a proper setupAs said it used to be simpler.Modern hardware is more reliant on gpusWhich in turn are closed source mostlyHaving multihead depends on Xineramaprotocol and some good implementationAND software match.. versioning andproper set of initializationMultihomed are easier because theyhave no explicit Xinerama but anywayyou still require proper gpu renderingsupport and proper setup and compatible protocol stackA single display with such feature depends only in software.. and viewportsThe method i have used depends onno software no version no packageIt was already working by 2000s eaglePovray ulp... even gpus at date werea crappy beggining..It alread works on any XWindows session over 20y already.. no need to wait gpu vendors good will and hacksPaul

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2021, 04:09:13 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on June 26, 2021, 06:47:38 pmBut that requires opening the same project multiple times which CAD software typically doesn't support to avoid corrupting the file.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2021, 08:32:30 am
content: Well I assume I am talking with experienced folks... in which in no possible scenario should even try to open the same project more than once.Multiple XWindows logins always require care with your home config as even simple files may be overwritten.In my case i have always used the Multihomed session to derive a board layout and do comparison and reautoplacing rerouting on the fly with visual feedbackThere are dozen methods to shadow copy your files including deep copy links and proper versioning. I use CVS in my files as well.Never had a single issue besides my shell history always been been mixed up among multiple loginsJust basic care is enough ..Your real problem is to have proper GPU support aka GART apertures and MMR registers setup.. on multiple cardsIMHO being now dependent on gpu seller good will is a nasty problemPaul

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2021, 10:04:36 am
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 01, 2021, 08:55:05 amI don't think you have much to contribute to the OP's question.But I do enjoy your Haikus.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2021, 12:11:26 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on July 03, 2021, 10:04:36 amNot sure if I understand ...What? sitting and wait some Python sweet heart craft a thingthat attach the KiCAD API to display a secondary window?Wait even longer so the underlay toolkit will care about Xineramasupport ( instead of tinkering that wayland confused side track ) ?What the reason to wait .. I had that dual display session workingon the bench w/2 SVGA monitors.. used to be simpler becausethe setup required less GPU vendor support and you could mixa dozen different brands SiS, ATI, S3, Matrox, Trident...they all died and we are doomed to 2 may be 3 gpus of choice.Chances are that mixing their crappy drivers won't even boot.So dual display - being Xinerama or not - are still feasiblewith some careful considerations as explained.If the OP will sit and wait some Python thing or some hackson the toolkit... well I can not argue.I have mine already workingPaul

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 03:16:36 am
content: What are you talking about? KiCAD is implemented in C++, not python. It only uses python for scripting, like footprint wizards, BOM generation, and various things that are relatively simple to implement but often need so be customized. There is no way you can make it display a schematic or PCB in two windows by not making substantial changes to how it manages sessions. None of that is within the scope of what python is for. Besides, as has been repeatedly pointed out, it already works just fine over multiple displays. It also works just fine over virtual desktops/spaces in Windows and MacOS. Not sure about Linux.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 08:01:09 am
content: Formally KiCAD is wrapped around wxGtkWhich happens to be a C++ toolkitI think it is great considering the status of Qt after being boughtIf you have not seen it yet there is an alternate bundle to wxGtk with an embed Python interpreter called wxPythonhttps://www.wxpython.org/<PS> Specificallyhttps://docs.wxpython.org/wx.glcanvas.1moduleindex.htmlwhere an enthusiastic folk can render any sort of view in 2 minute pythonishI am not a python fan much because I deal with PERL for more than 20y+..so last time I checked (what they call now legacy wxPython) youcouldjust as in PERL object oriented wrappers (auto made with higher order converterse.g. formallyhttp://www.swig.org/) just interface any sort of API .Done that in PERL Gtk and that is a veryverypowerfulmethod to achieve such short goals on large projects..<END PS>You can in theory just use that as well although last time i checked the team could not put it aupar with the pure releasePaul

author: pointhi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 12:28:54 pm
content: Sorry to say this @PKTKS, but the stuff you are talking about is not working as you think it does.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 06:33:58 pm
content: You need to be specificMy system works as explainedWhile other speculations i canonly provide fixes or directionsIF you be more clearBTW if you wonder swig bindings to python i suggest GNURadio wich makes extensive use of swig to python.Paul

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 07:23:07 pm
content: Just clone it from git@gitlab.com:kicad/code/kicad.git and see for yourself.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 07:26:41 pm
content: I have exactly 8 working versions of KiCAD on my primary workstationWhat exactly these vague comment i should look for? Be specificPaul

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 04, 2021, 08:01:09 amFormally (not formerly, as this information is current) Kicad uses the wxWidgets library to allow developers to write cross-platform applications without having to get too involved in learning the underlying system.QuoteCorrect!QuoteThis discussion isn't about the choice of cross-platform application library. Other than to say that the Kicad developers chose wx, and migrating to anything else will be painful.QuoteAnd ... Kicad already uses wxPython -- it's how Kicad presents the python scripting console!Quoteperl? That's hilarious.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2021, 11:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 03, 2021, 12:11:26 pmDude, you still haven't figured out that the underlying issue is that Kicad displays the layout in only one view. If someone stepped up and proposed how to have the application display two separate views of the layout, then it can be implemented. It's not a python thing at all. It requires support at the toolkit level.I haven't seen an application that uses X Windows in ages. It's a dead technology. Nobody cares.QuoteWait, you have Kicad's PCB editor showing two views of the same layout, in two windows? Cool! SHOW US.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2021, 07:01:16 am
content: Quotehttps://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/Used it yesterday to get a Linux Mint app running on a Windows 7 desktop. Depending on situation it can be better than a RDP view to a VM or actual remote machine.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2021, 01:45:19 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pmFirst let me thank you very much for pointing the mistakeFixed noted and hopefully not forgottenQuote from: Bassman59 on July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pmThey do not use the full version of it .They use just a tiny part of it to have that functionalityQuote from: Bassman59 on July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pmWell . once managed PERL allowed me to write KiCAD convertersparsers and other stuff which includes managing clever sessionslike the one I am posting.Quote from: Bassman59 on July 04, 2021, 11:08:51 pmYou just can not be more wrong about that.As you requested I will satisfy you showing youNOT THE WAY I DO ITand the way I suggested the OP to do it.Note that this is to satisfy YOU.... you just can not be more wrong about ...The real way I do this is already explained.To satisfy your curiosity and misunderstanding how Xwindows is nothingbut obsolete.. I am posting a screenshot of:- A BASIC PROJECT CRAFTED in 3 minutes... just for this show off- USING THE SAME location /tmp in the same workstation.and same user !!!- USING THE SAME VERSION OF KiCAD running multiple times..WTF how ? using that hilarious PERL thing with that obsolete fullbleeding edge X11 workstation... WTF X11 XWindows... yep just that..Attached as well the proper bindings to WX to allow X11 to performsuch amazing things... also a proper listing of **ALL** versions of Wxin my primary workstations so I can run 8 versions of KiCAD against themCheers. And have fun seeing how crippled these PCs that ditched X11 are...Nothing but a single crippled display without proper workstation functionality...Paul

author: metro
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 06, 2021, 06:28:24 pm
content: Folks, I don't think any of this is helpful, you are completely off topic...Maybe it would be good if a mod could lock this thread?Short answer: You can currently not open two independent views in KiCAD, we all agree it would be great.Clumsy workaround: open the same project in two instances of KiCAD, turn off autosave, and take care to do a save+reload cycle every time you are making a change to the design. Not nice, but if you really only need two independent views or zoom-levels of the same things, this works. If all you do is reviewing a design, not editing it, you are probably fine.Sorry if this is not the kind of answer you would like, but hey, you can always contribute to PCBnew and add a 2-window/2-viewport feature...

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 06, 2021, 09:49:50 pm
content: Quote from: metro on July 06, 2021, 06:28:24 pmThis would kind of defeat the purpose of having it in the first place. To me the whole idea would be to see changes on two different scales while doing things like routing and push-and-shove, or netlist selection. One close-in where the trace head is, where I'm adding segments, and another for the full board, to see where I'm going.Another useful feature would be to be able to view to git commits/tags/branches side by side. And have KiCad highlight differences. Even if one view were a readonly detached head and I'm only working on a head. (It could checkout the commit to a temporary directory just for viewing and visual diffing.)Same with schematics.But for me I think a higher priority for now is to be able to have multiple PCBs (not unlike multiple schematics) in one project. Then this could be used to implement versioning, diffing, etc.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 09:48:56 am
content: Quote from: metro on July 06, 2021, 06:28:24 pmjust for the record as it seems some folks still can not get it.The session posted *IS NOT** a clumsy workaroundIt is a real thing where I canMODIFY BOTH FILES INDEPENDENTLYeven saving them without any sort of trouble.. yes it is like that...The kind of setup used is not for newbies and explaining thatwould be off topic...I am offering a solution to the OP instead of whining cryingfor some type of very extensive modificationSolution which I consider very handy to the OP2 cents of real solution to the OP instead of crying featuresthat will not happen any time soonPaul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 01:48:21 pm
content: You haven't yet offered a solution - only bragged about having one and gone on long pointless rants about 'losing X11' when most everyone still uses X, complete with misinformed unrelated rants about systemd being 'designed for autologin'.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:02:52 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 01:48:21 pmI was missing you..your always inspiring insults..I will tell slowly again:- most distros (if not all) based on systemd are made w/autologin(which can be disabled with some tinkering...) single user display- they are not obviously but with some effort easily perceived asbiased to offer acompatible layerbased on wayland to WSLRemoving what they call legacy, deprecated tech. old unmaintainableXOrg X11 .. call whatever you like... but removing it is essential toachieve systemd+wayland+WSL only integration..The kind of functionality a full XOrg X11 offers isSTILLorders of magnitude higher and better than that.*SOLUTION*So... first you should have a distro systemd and wayland free.Second you should be reasonably capable of performing basicconfiguration of different types of XWindows sessions.(a lot of stuff is included here as font servers, layout customization..)After having a fully capable X11 workstationwith your apps and libsalso properly compiled with that support..You should login in MultiHome mode (e.g. the mode wheremore than one "card" is used but the layout provides no Xineramaextension although your servers are common (including font servers)Ditto that. in MultiHome mode login you will openyour projects having isolated GPUs and applications.. letting only the tasks of handling version control..To the record... that strange session posted was madein single session chrooted environment.. with total isolationalthough fully equal between them...so.. 2 decent solutions for the interested ones.I love your insults..Paul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:12:09 pm
content: So, yes, clumsy overblown workaround which doesn't resolve the fundamental issue of KiCAD not being designed to handle having the same project open by two sessions. Plus rant and thinly veiled insults. Amazingly, you didn't go on about perl in this post for a change.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:15:00 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 02:12:09 pmfine think what you want...while whining and blabbing I am running the solution for myself..for over decades ....And I provide that for those with kind respect.And you will need a bit or two or PERL in that.It helps way over I can tellPaul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:39:53 pm
content: Open both your sessions. In session 1, run a new trace. Does it appear in session 2?Save session 2. Close both. Open them. Is the trace still there?

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:45:15 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 02:39:53 pmWell I think you are reasonably clever enoughto understand that ...- WITHOUT MESSING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE...- THERE IS A WAY TO SEE 2 or 3 PARTS OF YOUR PCB..- change them at will compare them.. save them wo messing..What you want obviously is a DEEP modification of the project...Which I am afraid to disappoint you should not happen so soon.Although possible.. it should take time and introduce farmore bugs the folks can handle.If you prefer to stay sit on that... your callPaul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:47:40 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 07, 2021, 02:45:15 pmAnd as explained far earlier in the thread, you can do this without all your messing about and whining about systemd and wayland. But then you don't get to rant about them.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 02:47:40 pmMy dear... get yourself a cup of coffee.. strong..You are REQUIRED to have your apps compiled with full X11 stack.You are REQUIRED to drop systemd for the sake of having no thingystarting unwanted stuff in your setup..Did your took you meds today?I am not ranting.. these are requirements..Paul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 02:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 07, 2021, 02:52:18 pmErrr.. required by what? Why?You are REQUIRED to fully explain yourself and provide references. You're going to need a lot of coffee.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 03:01:23 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 02:57:20 pmHow old are you? above 20? above 30 at least?It is already explained with a proper shot of the requiredwxGtk BINDINGS TO X11. It is some post above..Please do not mess the OP advice with your rants..I am starting to wonder if you are even above 20y old..Paul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 04:27:15 pm
content: So what you're telling me is that due to 'requirements', I can't take a stock install of a systemd- and wayland-crippled distro like Ubuntu (I even enabled autologin, which isoff by defaultand a single click to change! Such tinkering!), install the latest version of KiCAD, and open two instances of pcbnew on the same file?Looks like I just did exactly that to me. No perl. No custom compiling. No chroot. No messing with X config. Running under Wayland, on a systemd distro, with autologin enabled. HOW?!

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 04:45:16 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 04:27:15 pmNo my dear YOU ARE SAYING this.. to make me look like foolAs you always do.I have not figure out what is your problem ... yet.You can do all this.. it is your head to bang..The solution I presented is safe - you will not mess your files..as long as you (like my 6y old nephew) do not insist in makingthings the odd way..PaulPS.. Alas the way I presented with proper environment allows toMODIFY AND SAVE BOTH FILES ... which will not happen if youopen the same files that naive way...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 04:48:26 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 07, 2021, 04:45:16 pm*sigh*You've yet to explain, then, how having two instances of the program open the same file doesn't pose a risk of one overwriting changes made in the other. And how that's connected to X.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 04:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 04:48:26 pmThat is the easiest part as long as you ask politely ..The reason for that is that THEY ARE NOT 2 INSTANCESof the "same program on same file"While one runs on regular file system the other "instance"is running on my chroot scratch using the newest wxGtk toolkit(aka 3.1 while other 3.0)My workstation have such thing ready..So they both run concurrently without even knowing about each other.Hope to satisfy your persistent rant about all things i post..Paul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 04:54:51 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 07, 2021, 04:52:12 pmSo.. it's just opening a different copy of the file.You can do this without a chroot. You can do this without messing with X configuration. There is no great magic and nothing about systemd or wayland holds you back.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 05:02:20 pm
content: No my dear...IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT SYSTEM ...New glibc new boost new everything..It is a whole environment as said100% safe thingRunning on the same workstation..SYSTEMD FREE and far from wayland messI deal with 8 KiCAD versions... 4 stable wxGtk branchesand **ONE** a single one unstable entry system.Currently working under GCC10 LLVM12 MESA 20 and boost 1.76Paul

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 05:05:59 pm
content: And that's all irrelevant, because the end result is you have another instance of a program operating on a different file. The rest is unnecessary, and it has nothing to do with systemd or Wayland. You could use the exact same binaries running in a chroot or any other form of container to achieve your isolation, and the isolation isn't even neededbecause they are different files.Your use-case of running multple different versions of the software is not relevant to the thread. Your hatred of systemd, Wayland, or any other piece of software is not relevant to the thread.In the current state of KiCAD there are two simple methods to gain a limited second view of a PCB or schematic:Disable autosaves, remove the lock files, and run a second instance (dangerous).Make a second copy of the project and open it with a second instance of the tool (safe enough).Your method is the second with additional complications fueled by other specific requirements and/or your own desires.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 05:09:04 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 05:05:59 pmIf that makes you happy... okall is irrelevant...unless that I fetch them from the the same NAS server every timeI start to deal with versioning... alas.. they are instantly checked inand automatic checked out... upon use.thanks to PERL mods to CVS or SVNPaul

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 05:19:07 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on July 07, 2021, 05:05:59 pmNah.. none hatred at all..I made a MINT system to my 6y old nephew play games..That is exactly made for him..POTTERIX systems are for that kind of use.he just loves it..Me too watching his grinPaul

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 01:19:57 pm
content: Quote from: PKTKS on July 07, 2021, 05:09:04 pmPlease allow the forum software to wrap your posts, rather than adding needless line breaks, which make your posts difficult to read. If you prefer shorter lines, just resize the window. Please don't inflict it on everyone!

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 03:37:09 pm
content: You are not the first bugged w thatSometimes i read forum w cup coffe and cel. Gez my fingers can barely fit screenThis size is typical to break.......................Otherwise i can not use this f* celI will try the bestPaul

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2021, 08:00:30 pm
content: Guys, please calm down. No need to make a war between graphical lib packages.There is an easy way to achieve this dual monitor though :simply use the 3D viewer for the global view, and position it so as to see approx the 2D board.You can improve the view with transparency of the substrate, and other graphical settings.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2021, 08:15:50 pm
content: QuoteThat's a pretty good solutionIt doesn't update as you make changes, but a quick click in that window forces an update, so it's not that difficult to periodically do that. Gosh, if only Altium had a separate 3D window...