heads-up: LinkedIn wants to use user data for AI training - opt-out now! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:22:45 pm
content: If you don't want your profile data to be used for training LinkedIn/Microsofts' AI better opt out now:- Settings & Privacy > Data privacy > Data for Generative AI ImprovementMedia:- LinkedIn will use your data to train its AI unless you opt out now -https://www.malwarebytes.com/blog/news/2025/09/linkedin-will-use-your-data-to-train-its-ai-unless-you-opt-out-now

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 12:55:52 pm
content: So let me get this straight: we've been getting all those cookie consent popups for years, but no consent at all is legally required for using user data for AI consumption?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 03:04:13 pm
content: Unfortunately yes. The EU AI act only requires an opt-out. If I understand the regulations correctly, the GDPR allows the use of user data in case of a legitimate interest, which would apply to using data for training AIs inside an organisation.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 04:06:55 pm
content: Not only is this "legitimate interest" thing complete BS, but inferring by law that random AI training is a "legitimate interest" for any particular individual is deranged.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 05:14:05 pm
content: I've never had an account with LinkedIn but it sounds like it might be a good time to create one to get involved.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 07:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 26, 2025, 04:06:55 pmI fully agree. We have to wait for courts to decide if AI training is a legitimate interest or not.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 09:37:06 pm
content: It seems to me that "AI Training" could also reasonably consist making your data available to the entire world! For a price of course!What? You didn'treallythink that LinkedIn was providing their service to you for free did you?? Didn't your momma ever tell you that there's no such thing as "free".

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 09:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 26, 2025, 07:07:33 pmYou may as well give up waiting. There's no court in the EU that's going to stop that (the AI training i.e. better described as Data Theft) from happening in the US or in China or a dozen other places that I could name. Ditto any court in the US, the UK or anywhere else. The AI folks will simply move theircorporate addressto a county thatdoesn't careand will continue to do what they want.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:18:48 pm
content: How on Earth people come to a conclusion,(1)that after you already waived your rights, anybody would need to ask you again just because you dislike one specific way you’re being used? In the general concept, philosophical sense. Not regarding specific regulations, as such reactions are in the former area.It always hurts my brain. It’s as if a person forgotten mid-sentence, what they have just written and what is the context they just created.(1)Based on what is written in this thread. Perhaps I misinterpreted something?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2025, 11:45:29 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 26, 2025, 03:04:13 pmAh! Well that's the gotcha! isn't it? "Legitimate Interest" to a commercial company could mean literally anything. Especially anything that means generating revenue for them.People need to realize that companies are in business for one reason and one reason only and that is to MAKE MONEY! And when they give their information to a company, ANY company, that they will use it to MAKE MONEY, even if that means selling it to your worst enemy. People need to stop and think about what information that they give out and what the people that they're giving it to might do with it,beforethey give it out in the first place. "Opting Out" means absolutely nothing, the company can still do what is in their "Legitimate Interest". The only true way to Opt Out is to not give them your information in the first place!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 12:05:30 am
content: Services like Linkedin are probably of least concern. At least you can opt-out and you actually have control of the data you provide to them.I'm worried about all these various applications and systems that are being used by everyday businesses, and what they are doing with your data. Things like CRM platforms have begun to implement "AI" functions, and who knows what that actually means for your data.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 09:39:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on September 27, 2025, 12:05:30 amIn those cases your data is the lesser concern. More concerning is the LLM hallucinating about you and the corporation dealing with you based on that hallucination.You will be numbered sorted spindled and mutilated (oops wrong decade/technology) in ways that nobody can understand - even the system owners designers and creators.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 10:13:52 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on September 26, 2025, 11:18:48 pmSocial pressure of having to register into whatever trendy bullshit sites and applications conditions people to (A) ignore the text they are legally agreeing to, (B) forget they ever did that.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 10:24:32 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on September 27, 2025, 10:13:52 amNobody in their right mind enters completely correct information into websites, except where required by law or financial services.Yes, I realise most people aren't in a right mind, even if it is their unthinking mind

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 12:14:54 pm
content: The problem goes much further than some website or social media platform. Would you be happy when your GP sells your medical data to some company for training their AI?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 01:27:35 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 27, 2025, 12:14:54 pmIt's already happening. Not your GP - yet - but your insurance company and most likely also the insfrastructure hosting medical data, which is now served by large private corporations in some countries.

author: Alex Nikitin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 02:25:43 pm
content: AI trainingCheersAlex

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 02:30:17 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 27, 2025, 12:14:54 pmI have not given my permission to my GP to sell my medical data. Users of LinkedIn have given such consent. A big, fundamental difference.Nothing AI-specific here at all. Many other uses, say, printing my medical data and handing it out randomly, are equally bad, or even worse.The real discussion to have is, again, about two points:(1) how to educate people to read and think about what they are signing to before signing,(2) whether we should limit freedom of contracts, e.g. between large companies and individuals by law, which is something we already do to some extent, toprotect the consumersfrom themselvessigning stupid contractsNeither is an easy question, so it's easier to come up with illogical, populistic, poor analogies.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 05:07:51 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 27, 2025, 12:14:54 pm23andme has been doing that for years. People don't realize it but 23andme has always been about selling your DNA data and your medical and personal characteristics and very little to do with genealogy.Gattaca. It will be here sooner than you think!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2025, 05:57:51 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on September 27, 2025, 02:30:17 pmSure, you don't sign a contract when visiting your GP. So general law applies, which, (usually), protects the "vulnerable", if just because "less knowledgeable", so the customer rather than the professional.But when using any service under a signed contract, then said contract can override many of the general laws, even though they still apply to some extent and so some clauses in some contracts may be deemed invalid.While I agree with you in general, the average citizen usually doesn't have the legal background to really understand what some clauses of a long contract, written by a seasoned legal team, even mean. Which makes it, at the very best, unfair.Now, when dealing "critical" contracts, you may consult a lawyer before signing them. But nobody will ever consult a lawyer before signing up for an online service such as LinkedIn. Maybe they should.For health insurance companies - a case I mentioned earlier - ditto. Have you ever read your contract in full and understood every single clause in it? Do you think there's anything in there that prevents them from using your medical data to feed AI systems? Their own: it's not even a question, that's almost obvious. But as to selling your medical data to third parties, that's probably also largely possible as long as they "guarantee" to make user data anonymous.So, sure. In the end, everyone should be cautious about those things, and not being at least cautious is stupid. But as to blaming people for not having read the user agreement on sites like LinkedIn (and all others), well, have you? In practise, the question becomes more like either you don't use those services because you already sort of know what they're up to, or you do, and you probably have never read their user agreement in full. That's the reality of it.Should people be protected against that? I don't know. I'm all for letting people be responsible for what they do. Just saying that in practise, either you're cautious about everything of that nature, or you're not and use those services carelessly. Either way, you probably have no idea what the user agreement really implies. And in my first remark, my point was that if we pretend protecting people against unsolicited cookies (which may be commercial abuse but are often harmless beyond that), to be consistent, we should probably protect them against unsolicited use of their data - and at the very least, prevent user agreements that do not state in details and with clear limits how and why they will use your data. Just my 3 cents.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 12:29:18 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on September 27, 2025, 02:30:17 pmUnfortunately it's reality. Over here we have electronic health records (ePA). Until recently it was optional (on request), now it's mandadory with the option to opt out. One feature is that basically anyone could get that data in a pseudomised form for 'medical research'. Anyone with some basic knowledge in data science knows that as more data points are availalbe as easier it becomes to de-pseudomise the patient. Another example is software for a doctor's practice. Some of it is quite inexpensive or even free, but promotes pharmaceuticals of a specific vendor. The next step is already happening. Two software companies offer money for giving them a copy of the patients' data. I don't think every doctor would ask each patient for permission, as required by GDPR.Back to LinkedIn and GDPR (for users in the EU). If LinkedIn wants to sell user data to a third party they have to ask each user for permisssion while also clearly stating all the details. A simple 'all your data belong to us" in the TOS doesn't work. Training their own AI/LLM with user data is a different story, as mentioned above.Regarding protecting consumers from bad contracts. Unless one is a shrewd lawyer he won't fully understand the typical TOS, i.e. too complicated for us consumers. And yes, several jurisdictions have therefore laws in place which make sure that consumers can't waive their rights and companies can't discriminate against consumers, rendering some terms in their TOS irrelevant.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 12:38:25 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 27, 2025, 05:07:51 pmRight! It's already here, i.e. the German ePA - medical data (pseudomised) for free.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 12:48:02 pm
content: Quote from: madires on September 28, 2025, 12:38:25 pmAnd, as I'm sure you are aware,notpseudomised if you have rare conditions. E.g. someone with a 1:20000 condition, male, 30s, living in city X. That narrows it down to a very small number of people.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 02:10:08 pm
content: Don't be scareddd!https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/industry/blog/healthcare/2025/06/17/advancing-healthcare-ai-innovation-for-global-impact-at-hlth-europe-2025/

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 03:18:33 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on September 28, 2025, 12:48:02 pmExactly and I was going to point this out. In most studies they're going to need to know where you live, you approximate age, your sex, your race and some other basic physical factors including probably what type work you do. Just with those, you could narrow down to very small group of people. But then add what DNA can tell including eye color, hair color, your approximate height, skin tone, how likely is that you have early hair loss, whether you're inclined to heart disease, being over weight, or have high blood pressure or high blood sugar, even the shape of your ears and they can narrow it down even further. Any of you that subscribe to Ancestry.com or 23andme.com have already seen that they are already providing details such as this to their users. You have to wonder how much else they know about you but haven't announced publicly???It would be like looking at the oscilloscope display of a modulated radio signal, to most people it would just be nonsense but for us as electrical people we could apply an FFT (or just look at it on a Spectrum Analyzer) and we could see all of the individual signals and their frequently and amplitude. Modern computers would allow snoops to do the same thing even with pseudo randomized DNA or medical data. Add in the ability to grab hospital records or Medicaid records or doctor's records or data from other sources (what drugs they're buying from drug stores) and compare those to the DNA sample and you could very quickly match up a randomized DNA sample or a pseudo randomized medical record with the person that it came from.And today or very soon, even unsophisticated users able to use AI to match up all kinds of data. So how long will it be before companies like insurance companies will buying your DNA data and will be snooping into YOUR background and decided whether or not to sell you life or medical insurance based on your predicted health conditions? Or companies making a decision of whether or not to hire you based on your DNA predicted proclivity to become a drug or alcohol abuser. Or maybe the schools decide when your kids are age four to put them on the stupid kid track and they eventually sent them off to cosmology school instead of instead of put them on the intelligent kid track and sending them to college?I'm glad that I'm enough that I don't have to worry about future employment or having kids in school or most of the other possible concerns but I worry like hell about what's going to happen to future generations.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 09:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: golden_labels on September 26, 2025, 11:18:48 pmYes, I think you've grossly misinterpreted something.How on Earth could you not see this as moving the goalposts?Sure, someone has already signed a TOS agreement or whatever.But now along comes a new player, "AI", which didn't exist when that agreement was "signed". This isde novo.So don't go blaming the user for "shoulda known better" or whatever.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 09:30:19 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 26, 2025, 05:14:05 pmYou mean so you can stuff your account details with AI poisoning data (there are reports you can feed it damaging prompts in the data) ?Seems like a good plan. And it's not like your linked in account is useful for anything else.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2025, 09:31:26 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on September 26, 2025, 09:37:06 pmWhat service ? Or do you consider free spam a service ?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2025, 11:20:49 am
content: Quote from: artag on September 28, 2025, 09:31:26 pmService = the fact that you are in LinkedIn, so that those others, who think it is important to be in LinkedIn, can see that you are in LinkedIn.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2025, 01:29:44 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on September 28, 2025, 09:06:01 pmThis isn't a "new" player. It's the same player, Linked In, selling your data for a new use. And most egregious, is that thing new use will supply your data to an unlimited number of others.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2025, 05:47:02 pm
content: All those bullshit services always sold your data. Outright, directly. Using it to "train AI" isn't any worse. At worst, it's the same, AI will eject random excerpts of your data. At best, the data is completely lost in the neurons.