When is a Keysight App Bundle not an Keysight App Bundle? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 01:36:55 pm
content: So I have a Keysight 3000TX scope that came with an App Bundle licence, which is working a real treat. Looking at doing some USB PD stuff I notice the scope can decode the USBPD Protocols, which would be quite handy. Previously when delving into this I've had to work it all out manually. Excitement didn't last long, as the option isn't there, apparently I need to also buy option code DSOXT3UPD - even though I already have an App Bundle licence.I think this has come about as at some point this was introduced in a firmware upgrade but those with existing bundles didn't get these switched on. Naturally any new App Bundle licence would turn this option on but I don't see a way to regenerate my existing licence file. I can't see an option to remove the licence from the scope and try adding it back either.Would it be worth approaching Keysight to see about re-generating the licence file?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 01:49:50 pm
content: I think it's only supported on the 3000T and 4000X series.My MSO-X3104A doesn't show anything about USB decoding, licensed or otherwise.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 01:50:50 pm
content: Yes, it’s a 3000T I’ll edit the OP

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 05:47:49 pm
content: You can give our call center and make a stink if you want. Theofficialposition of Keysight is that you get all the options that exist with the app bundleat the time of app bundle redemption/purchase. The theory is that you bought the license then without the new functionality then you got full value out of your purchase independent of future releases.It would require a re-generation of the license in our system to get USB-PD decoding with an older app bundle install.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 06:53:06 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on April 29, 2019, 05:47:49 pmThanks, I might well give them a call if I can find a UK number. Looking at this kind of this is one reason why I needed a scope, the option would make it easier as the decode is done automatically.Not sure I totally agree with the official thinking here, if a future release adds value that just makes a brand worth investing in for the longer term.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 08:24:13 pm
content: I don't entirely agree. What was paid for was received. Maybe they should offer a discounted upgrade when new features are added for app bundle purchasrs but I don't think they should feel required to give it away. When R&S added bode plot I think those of us who benefit from that were surprised, I was anyway. I expected I'd have to purchase it.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 09:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight DanielBogdanoff on April 29, 2019, 05:47:49 pmExcept it's not always that clear cut. I was shipped a scope that had the older APP bundle preinstalled as I purchased the scope the same week the new FW / App Bundle came out.But I think what the OP is asking for is a way to 'upgrade' the existing App bundle rather than repurchase the app bundle which would essentially mean the OP would be paying twice for many of the licences. So it's not really a question of getting the full value but rather a case of being charged twice - the cost of the additional 'licenses' exceeds the cost of the bundle meaning someone wanting to 'add' those additional licenses pays twice.This stance by Keysight promotes piracy of the licenses as it generally comes across as abusive software licensing. I'm happy to pay for software licenses which supports development & innovation, BUT I'm not happy to be forced to pay twice the full price for a minor upgrade in function.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 09:24:15 pm
content: Keysight did that with the mid-life firmware change to the 2000X series that increased the waveform update rate by a factor of 4. I bought the 'plus' bundle at a reduced price compared to the bundle I already had. It wasn't too expensive (for Keysight, that is)

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 11:46:11 pm
content: I also got bit by this with my MSOX3104T with app bundle.It feels very cheap of Keysight torequire me to buy the whole app bundle again to get the one new feature that I wantask me to pay full price for new features when I already paid to get the full set. Especially since that is a very expensive top of the line scope.I don't expect it for free but it should have been made available for an incremental price to existing app bundle customers.Whether I am right or wrong to expect that, it has really soured me on Keysight. So much so that it I talked about it to a client when recommending a spectrum analyzer purchase.It really put it into perspective for me that Keysight considers me to be an unimportant, "low end" customer even after spending that much money on a scope.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 02:33:06 am
content: Quote from: apblog on April 30, 2019, 11:46:11 pmThis may sound dense but what options are included in any of the bundles andnotavailable for separate purchase? Can you not buy the new option and add it on top of the already installed bundle?The bundle is not much more than 2 separate licenses, so its great value if you need multiple options that are included. But I don't think it was ever advertised as a perennial enabling of all current and future licenses, rather a fixed set of options at a discount bundle price.

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 05:15:48 am
content: Quote from: Someone on May 01, 2019, 02:33:06 amYes, I misspoke, I don't need to buy the whole bundle again, just individual options for full price each.I think what's important here is how people feel about this policy -- it's all about perception and customer service.And I should take a moment to recognize them for including the Bode plot feature as a freebie.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 05:16:06 am
content: You can certainly buy an individual license if a new feature is released that your bundle doesn't include. The bundle package is nothing more then individual licenses for each feature in the bundle.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 08:37:26 am
content: Just to explain how customer sees it.AppBundle, in the eyes of customer has meaning of "fully unlocked scope".It is marketed as such.Customers DON'T like when vendors start talking about legal meaning of sales contract and small print.And if Keysight would add 10 new measurements today, I would be unhappy that scope sold today for the same money has more capabilities, than the one I bought only 3 months ago for the same money.And price of options being such that you can buy a whole Rigol MSO5000 scope for just one option (MSO bundle for 3000T costs as much as a Rigol MSO5000 with MSO probes), if that was my choice and If that other scope had the measurement, I would simply buy other scope.To me, as a customer, it is simple. AppBundle should mean perpetual fully unlocked scope. It is a part of why I bought Keysight, to have a good support and company that keeps reminding me that it was worth it that I paid a lot of money for a quality product and service. I really believe that at least all AppBundle upgrades that happen during warranty period should be free.That being said, Keysight is not a charity. I understand that.Proper solution to this would be that Keysight should enable "AppBundle upgrade", for a fraction of a price. Let's say, for for a 25% of AppBundle you get a newest version of bundle. That would be few hundred USD and people would pay that.That would show customers Keysight respects their business, Keysight would get a revenue where they don't get it now and all would be looked upon positively.So my proposition is free AppBunde upgrades trough warranty period and and after that "AppBundle upgrade" for a fraction of the price.And for those that get extended service and management contracts with Keysight, an additional "License Maintenance option", where you pay for a free upgrades during maintenance period...Maybe Daniel might relay this to those who defineofficial position of Keysightand explain them that with rapidly increasing competition from both A-brands and B-brands, it isofficial position of the customerthat will define whether we buy Keysight or something else.Regards,SinisaEDIT: typo.

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 04:16:24 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 01, 2019, 05:16:06 amYes, I misspoke. The way I look at it is that I'm waiting for enough added value in terms of new features to justify buying the app bundle again, which is why I phrased it that way.Thanks to 2N3055 for explaining the problem much better than I was able to.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 04:43:42 pm
content: btw, I have also been frustrated over new apps not being included in the app bundle. My opinion was voiced in another thread earlier. My scope has had parts changed to increase bandwidth but the firmware isn't hacked in any way as I have the bundle - and that is how I prefer it to stay.

author: blacksheeplogic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 09:36:03 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 01, 2019, 05:16:06 amBuying a the additional licenses included in the App bundle exceeds the cost of the app bundle. It's fine if you just want one of the licenses. I'm of the view there needs to be an app bundle upgrade license.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 09:55:51 pm
content: Quote from: blacksheeplogic on May 01, 2019, 09:36:03 pmAgreed! Either give them free of charge or have a discounted bundle update price.I'd highly recommend anyone in the position does contact Keysight though and ask about it. Never know, maybe they will reissue the bundle with the updated apps.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 10:41:37 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on May 01, 2019, 09:55:51 pmThat is my opinion too. It should be permanent full unlock of all features.If that is something Keysight finds unacceptable, all upgrades should be free throughout warranty period and after that you should be able to purchase AppBundle update for a fraction of a price of orginal price. Most software vendors will sell you upgrade to new version at 20-25% of original full price. This is software too, no reason same rules couldn't apply..