reasonable priced , real, crimping tools for molex / JST / Dupont ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 04:26:18 pm
content: first off : AAARGH L#$%^&#@$%.Now that is out of the way , does anyone know of good crimping tools for those little loose wire connectors like used by dupont , molex, jst and others ?And with good crimping tool i mean : something where you don't need 3 hands ( one of turning counterclockwise) , stand on your left foot , tongue at the right angle , three glasses on and then still hold the wire with your right foot trying to squeeze the crimping tool.Those pins drive me nuts. Everytime it is a fumble to cut the pin off the strip , get it in the tool , strip the wire end , twist that, put that in , pick up the pin again , put it in , now drop the wire , have one strand stick out , drop the pin again ... aaaargh . then crimp and find out you crunched half the contact as the pin slipped.... you'd think the handtools would have a nice cradle that can grip the pin and keep it at the right distance ... something lie a replaceable cartridge that has a single male pin at the right offset. you push the female on the male pin : now it can't fall out anymore and it is set at the right distance. hold wire in. crimp .pull on wire to remove freshly crimped contact.. repeat.out of pure misery i solder the wires in first , then cut the pins off the strip , then crimp the ends so they fit in the connector body. but that defeats the purpose of a crimped contact.are there any reasonably priced ( up to 100$ ) tools that accept the pins on strip where you just put in the wire and squeeze. i can buy the pins on strip just like they are fed in the production machines.dealing with the loose pins is just a frigging nightmare ( especially the 1.27mm and 2mm JST ones .. )i have to do a few hundred ( 400 to 500 ) pins and outsourcing is not the goal. i want an in-garage solution ...anyone ? anyone ? bueller ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 05:40:59 pm
content: I'd get an intern to do those jobs. Using loose contacts is better because taking the pins from a strip is more tedious. Also don't twist the strands before crimping and only strip a short piece of the insulation.I have a TNI-U TU-190-08 ratchet crimper from Ebay and it works well for JST XH and Molex KK254 contacts. This has separate sections for the insulation and conductor areas of the contact / wire. By closing the crimper a little you can clamp the contact in place and insert the wire without the contact falling out of the crimper.For production I strongly prefer to buy pre-crimped wires though. You can buy these pre-made for many brands and I'm sure you can get specific lengths from sellers on Ebay and Aliexpress if you ask. If you spend the time you waste by crimping the wires yourself by flipping burgers at McDonalds you make money and get the wires crimped!

author: GreggD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 05:58:20 pm
content: I have the TNI-U TU-190-08 crimper. Best to put one handle in a bench top vice it holds things steady. I got it to crimp JST PH contacts. It almost works, comes close but a complete fail. Does not crimp enough and the wire falls out.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 06:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: GreggD on December 14, 2017, 05:58:20 pmYou have to realise that every contact needs it's own specific crimper. There isn't such a thing as a universal crimper. The crimper you have works OK for the contacts I mentioned in the post above but the official crimpers will give nicer result.

author: GreggD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 06:38:26 pm
content: The real hand crimper, which I have used but did not own is just a little expensive.TOOL HAND CRIMPER 28-32AWG SIDE, at Digikey Unit Price $1,057.68 455-1236-NDAnd is also hard to use.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 07:12:44 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 14, 2017, 04:26:18 pmThe one and only answer is: no.Even second hand on Ebay the original tool with rust which only fits a single connector runs over $300The chinese versions for $30 are crap.The best are the japanese Pioneer but they need two better three handsWhat you need is an automatic wire stripper, cutter and crimping tool for one specific connector you will have to pay a couple of thousand $.Some chinese factories have them but you don't want to outsource, so no solution.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 07:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 14, 2017, 05:40:59 pmHobby project . I'M THE INTERN ... GRMBL.These are cable harnesses. I string the wires first then terminate them. lengths i don't know (yet) . whatever is needed ( this is a large 3D printer : build volume half a meter by half a meter by half a meter ... ) all wiring runs in 2020 tubing channels or cable chains (moving wires) so i can't have connectors on them while running the wire ... bare terminals works though. i use high current ribbon cable ( not loose wires ) for the stepper and the control signals.i am amazed nobody has come up with a low cost universal crimper.Crimping handle with insertable 'cartridge'.The cartridge has the crimping 'die' and a pin of the connector. The find 'folds out (hinge) . Simply plug the terminal on the pin. fold inwards. The terminal now rests in the crimping cavity.Since the terminal is plugged on a pin it can't fall out and it sits at the right offset in the die. (no more crushed terminals , or malpositioned terminals)The cartridge also has a stripper that cuts the end of the wire at the appropriate length. ( stripper with cable endstop)so : put in some wire : stripfold out pin , put terminal on pin , fold in. put wire in hold : crimp.anyone with some mechanical aptitude could make that easily. the stripper can use standard stripping blades that can be set using a screw ( or they could be in a plastic block : pull out and throw when spent. )

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 07:37:32 pm
content: 10 minutes in solidworks ...the part where the pin is would be hinged so you can fold it out for easy insertion.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 07:45:31 pm
content: The crimping die is the difficult part.The chinese die looks very much like the japanese die, the japanese is cleaner/sharper, the chinese is garbage the japanese ok. Good luck.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 08:06:33 pm
content: The problem is there are a lot of differences between pin types.The better manufacturer tools (e.g. JST) hold the pin by the non-crimped end, so it's held in place while keeping the crimp area clear. All these ends are different, so it would be impractical to make a decent tool for even a subset.e.g.https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/jst-sales-america-inc/WC-110/455-1136-ND/527372These are way, way better than all the generic tools, and if you're doing a significant number of crimps, worth the money.I'm surprised we're not seeing knock-offs at least for the common types like JST XH and PH etc.It might be viable to 3D print a short-life holder to fix onto a generic tool

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 09:08:49 pm
content: And I am surprised that these manufacturers not sell the crimptools for a more decent / hobbieist price. Their business is to sell as many connectors as possible, offering cheaper crimptools will help that purpose.In the earlier days there were generic ratchet tools with insert dies for each type of connector. Still are for the more common red/blue/yellow shoeconnectors used in cars, a good one with three dies costs <$100If the dies would be say $30 a piece and the ratchet toolholder around $100 I would be buying a set.Esp. The Dupont connectors are a pita.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 09:46:45 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 14, 2017, 08:06:33 pmThat is what i am looking for. it holds the bloody damn pin ( which none of the other tools do, and which is the mayor pain in the ass. ) and it also has an endstop to block you from inserting the wire too deep.If they would only make this with exchangeable cartridges it woudl be palatable. let's say 150$ for the handpiece and 50$ a pop for the dies.i am using 3 different JST connectors and would need 3 different tools. 1000$ + is NOT palatable ...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 09:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on December 14, 2017, 09:08:49 pmThey don't care about hobbyists, or anyone that's not prepared to pay a few hundred $ for a hand tool, or a grand for dies for an auto crimper.They do care that their product is reliable, so cheaping out on the tool makes no sense, as it could harm the reputation of their connectors.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:05:29 pm
content: Yes you are right.There are about four major players that keep on making new connectors and new tools it is a nightmare

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 14, 2017, 09:58:54 pmI find it rather hard to believe that proper crimping tools really do have to cost this much money. It seems a matter of milking it for what it's worth.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 10:47:17 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 14, 2017, 10:42:16 pmThey probably don't, but manufacturers have minimal incentive to offer cheaper tools, and wouldn't want to take any risks. I wouldn't be surprised if some manufacturers sub out their crimpers to a tool specialist.Another angle is that of tolerance - there will be tolerance issues on both the contact and the tool, the combination of which must be controlled to ensure an in-spec crimp. It makes more sense to make the tool tolerance as tight as possible, to allow for a wider tolerance, and hence lower cost, on the contact.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 11:10:31 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 14, 2017, 09:46:45 pmSo it is very worthwhile to standarise on 1 type of crimp connector family.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 12:04:42 am
content: Another option - You can buy ready-terminated cables ridiculously cheap on AliexpressAlso, there's Dirty Cables :http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2017/06/22/dirty-cables-cheap-custom-cables-available-now/

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 08:45:59 am
content: Be carefull though , my experience on Ebay is that 90% of the used wire in these cables are magnetic, eg contain iron instead of copper, besides the lower conductivity i now have to care about brittle and possible rust in my connections. The used connectors are also shiny chrome and under suspicion of not being authentic

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:47:06 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on December 15, 2017, 08:45:59 amOr they use aluminium. Not a lot of fun.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 04:01:38 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 14, 2017, 09:58:54 pmthere must be a knock-off market for an intermediate priced one...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 05:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 15, 2017, 04:01:38 pmProbably, but as labour is cheap in China they just make do with the simple generic ones which take longer to use

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 06:06:50 pm
content: I have an Engineer PA-20 but may not be what you want :https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PA-20-Universal-Terminal-Crimping/dp/B002AVVO7UIt's a 2 step crimping tool, you insert the pin in the tool and the wire, crimp, then repeat the process with the part that crimps on the insulation , potentially using another die size. So it's slow and boring process and you'll make some mistakes (let's say 1-2 f*ckups every 30-50 crimps)400 wires is an afternoon job, maybe 3-5 hours of work. Not worth spending hundreds of dollars on a tool and dies.It's fairly easy once you get the routing.. have the wires pre-cut, twist the strands at the end of the wires a bit, place the pin on the tool , squeeze tool a bit to lock pin in place, insert wire, squeeze hard. pull out pin and slide it in the other die to crimp the insulation, squeeze hard. 2 hand job, 15-30s per crimp.

author: Christopher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 06:47:42 pm
content: the engineer PAD set is very good, you need to buy the extra jaws though. not ratcheted, but after a few fails you get the right crimp pressure quickly.two-pass process, worked very well for Molex KK and some JST connectors. easier to use than the actual molex kk crimp tool if i'm honest...!!!well worth it for a few quidhttp://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pad11_13e.html

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 07:14:58 pm
content: hell no. two step... i am looking for 1 step with zero defects ...these pins are very small ( 1mm connectors )and it is not an afternoon work... i have to string all the wires in the machine , figure out how much slack i need , take em back out , trim them , crimp pins, take em back in.the goal is to make a wire harness that can be produced repeatedly. so there is a lot of work.anyway. i was looking for a simple solution for these pins. for now i think i will simply use precrimped wire ends and solder them to the existing wires. i can solder wires faster than i can muck with those stupid little pins that are 3 by 1 mm.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 08:45:27 pm
content: Is it too late to move away from the 1mm pitch connectors? I'd opt for a dual row connector with a larger pitch if space is an issue. A larger pitch will also be friendlier to assemble and maintain.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 10:23:00 pm
content: i am using VH, XH and PH connector because these are prevalent in the 3d printer world. using a new standard is problematic for adoption.i will use dirtycables to do a real run . for about 400$ i can get 100 sets of cables.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 11:34:42 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 15, 2017, 10:23:00 pmNone of those are 1mm pitch..Please let us know how dirtycables works out - looks useful but I've yet to see any feedback on them.

author: Technobabble_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:10:58 am
content: I've had limited success with theIWISScrimping tool, however it *does not* work well on the smallest (red) connectors - at least the one I've received.

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:37:35 pm
content: My experience so far with crimpers is: if you get a deal, buy the original tool. If you are "just a hobbist" and don't care about the crimp quiality and want the thing crimped, I urge you to get the engegneer PA series, however there will be drawbacks, like you won't get a perfect crimp mechanically and so, it might be an issue later when the stuff is under stress conditions and it's a dobule crimp mechanism, moreover they can't hold the connector during the crimping operation.If you are looking for crimping JSTs you might consider a D-sub crimper. There are slight variations in desing between manufacturers however take something that "follow the design", and you will get a fair crimp. Pefection = $$$ (a lot!). Also search for a crimper that will hold the connector while crimping... For extremely fine stuff like 30 AWG or more, you require special equipment, otherwise it won't crimp at all or you will damage the contact inevitabley, but prices will be as high as the stars:https://www.distrelec.it/it/pinza-crimpare-senza-inserto-daniels-dmc-m22520-01/p/18061814?queryFromSuggest=trueThis for example is used to crimp up to 32AWG and it also check the correct lenght in the crimp (for circular turned type contacts), and yep, it's 500 Eur before tax.The real issue with crimpers is that you have to buy decent stuff straightfoward or you will be buying them forever and you will end up with wasting lot of money... Also, needless to say, but if you use a particular type of connecor a lot, you need the whole set, because something as simple as uninsulated faston sockets or sleeves in reality have a wide range of variations that can preclude you from peforming the crimp correctly. As for the 1mm jst or molex a D-sub capable crimping piler will do the job. Weidmuller sell those for 300 Eur, however you might be lucky to find them used on ebay.Also, one other thing: for original Dupont connectors those are extremely rare connectors and it's unlikely you have those. The chances are that you have the cheap-chinese ones for breadboard stuff (probably off ebay), and D-sub works...Crimping equipment, is something anyone involeved in elecronics should have, and it's often a very superficially-looked section!

author: jneudorf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 07:00:46 pm
content: It may be better in the US, but when ordering from amazon.ca, the prices have significant markup, and expedited shipping is insane. This is a case where ordering from amazon.co.jp seems to make sense; they have relatively fast shipping (3-6 days), and are cheaper.

author: jwr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:24:52 pm
content: For JST-PH I suffered through terrible frustration until I bought the Engineer PA-09 (Japanese) crimp tool. It's the first one that actually worked, and I'd say it's the threshold: anything less expensive will be a piece of garbage.The PA-09 will do the job if you don't need to crimp a lot and if you don't need good repeatability and reliability. In other words, it's fine for hobby use, but do not expect to run a production line with it.--Jan (https://partsbox.io/)

author: Prime
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2018, 06:58:54 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 14, 2017, 10:47:17 pmOh, but they do. Both Molex and JST outsource to Klauke and PressMaster. I figured this out when I realised the handles were the same, but the dies were different.Incidentally, both offer some generic crimping tools, maybe it's worth having a look on their site?I bought a cheap tool from the local Polulu agent, it works ok for Dupont style connectors but having used a genuine tool for the molex crimps, I can assure you, the pain and suffering trying to hand crimp and bodge crimp with lousy tools isn't worth it on a big project. You will end up tearing you hair out because bad or intermittent connections and as your parts are all moving, you are going to find cables breaking from solder on the wires and bad or no strain relief.I'd really suggest going to see a cable manufacturer and asking them what it would cost to have some cables made to sample.