Agema Thermovision 470 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 06:42:19 pm
content: Just got one of these, seems to be working ok apart from what I assume is the chopper wheel making occasional knocking sounds and causing the viewfinder image to be doubled vertically. Is there a manual available anywhere? I'd especially like to see what precisely the "aperture" and "filter" controls do.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:39:44 pm
content: The user manual is available on the FLIR Legacy support site as they own AGEMA's archives now. As far as I am aware there is no service manual for this camera in the public domain, despite its age and obsolescence.The 400 series are scanning thermal imaging cameras that use a SPRITE peltier stack cooled thermal sensor. The scanning is achieved with galvanometers attached to mirrors. Any knocking heard is evidence of a mirror hitting its mechanical end stop, which, as the galvanometers are a synchronised and resonant type, should not normally happen. It suggests a mirror position sensor failure is loomingInside the camera there is a sealed chamber that contains the galvanometers and mirror(s). I forget how many mirrors are used in the 400 series. It could be one, or two depending upon the SPRITE sensor used. That chamber contains a vacuum to reduce resistance against the mirrors resonant movement back and forth. Lose the vacuum and mirror performance will be impacted. You would need to pull a vacuum on that module after a repair and reseal it.These cameras are now elderly and sadly you will find no support for them and likely no one willing to take on their repair. It is very much a DIY job I regret to say.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 07:52:39 pm
content: In case you cannot find it, here is the URL to the FLIR download archive. Just select the manuals option and Legacy Agema manuals. You will be presented with the full Agema document archive including the manual for your camera model.http://flir.custhelp.com/app/account/fl_downloadsThe original software for viewing your cameras images on a PC was IRWin 2.01. It requires either a licence dongle (LPT port type) or a licence key to activate the software. IRWin was intended to run on Win95 and does not seem to like WinXP ot later.Fraser

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 08:48:05 pm
content: Thanks Fraser, the knocking sound and display problem seems to fix itself after I change the aperture setting control.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 08:57:03 pm
content: The aperture setting changes the diameter of a hole in the optical path and should have no influence on the mirror operation so that is a bit of a mystery.The only moving parts in the camera whilst running are the Galvo's and mirrors. There is no chopper wheel in scanning camera. The only other operation of interest is the self calibration routine that involves the mirror(s) being driven to an end position where it views a black body thermal reference that the camera uses to set its temperature measurement calibration. There are normally two such miniature black body sources to provide 2 point calibration.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 09:50:46 pm
content: I just read the 470 manual to clarify some points and confirm my memory of the camera.It uses two scanning mirrors. One is a tilt mirror and the other is a multi facet polygon rotary mirror.The SPRITE detector is just a single pixel type that is cooled using a Peltier stack cooler.I attach some extracts from the manual to provide further insight into the design.Fraser

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 12:33:55 am
content: After having it running for a while, the knocking sound hasn't come back. Just occasional light tapping over the sound of the cooler like on this video -

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 09:01:44 am
content: Yes I have seen this young ladies videos on thermal cameras.Understandably she is having to guess about some aspects of the cameras design. Hope she found the manual, it is not that hard to find once you know FLIR bought AGEMATo cover some points she raised.1. The 400 series is basically an adaption of the earlier 870/880 cooled cameras. The width and length are dictated by the familiarity of the designers with these tripod mounted cameras. This is sadly why the 400 series are ugly ducklings and not very ergonomic. I have resisted adding one to my collection due to their bulk.2. The SPRITE detector is cooled to only -70C and not the -196C required by Liquid Nitrogen cooled cameras. If she tries to open the Peltier cooling assembly that resides in a Dewar she will destroy it !3. The spinning sound on power off is not a hard disk, but the rotating mirror spinning down. It spins at 24K RPM ! And remember it is in a vacuum.4. As she discovered, the files produced by this camera were read by dedicated AGEMA software. Each camera manufacturer used their own proprietary file format.5. The young lady was searching for lenses when she found the camera. She makes no mention of the fact that there are MW and LW AR coated lenses. I hope she understands the difference between them if she is looking for lenses to work at LW.I attach a picture of the AGEMA 880. It is basically turned upside down in the 400 series. The processing electronics that are an external unit on the 800 series is then bolted on the rear of the imaging section in the 40@ series.I also attach the 'cutaway' view of the 880 camera.Fraser

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2018, 03:53:33 am
content: Thankyou, the camera I got had the image software on floppy disks, so no problem with that. I like the camera because it reminds me of the big old recording cameras of the era, and just managed to hook it up to a color monitor and spent the evening viewing the catJust want to make sure so I don't worry too much, that noise in the video is normal for when it's running, right?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2018, 11:25:11 am
content: Yes, sounds normal to me.Same as my Agema 880 that I used to use.Out of interest, is your software IRWin ? If so, is it "Researcher" or some other version ? Does it use a key or Dongle for activation. I ask because another 470 owner I tried to help with my IRWin Researcher could not get it to recognise his parallel port licence Dongle. My IRWin Researcher used a key code rather than a dongle.I try to keep a decent software repository for people who need AGEMA and FLIR thermal camera software as the disks often go missing but the owners still have the original licence (normally in the user manual first page) If you wish to add your version of software to the repository, I would welcome it. (Not your licence, just the software). FLIR keep a decent repository of various legacy softwares but sadly some are missing, such as IRWin.Fraser

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2018, 07:17:23 pm
content: Great, thanksNot sure what the software is, was handwritten on one of the floppys that came with it, I'll have to dig out my old PC.

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 08:56:01 pm
content: Just a final update, the knocking sound had been going on almost constantly during last testing, but after recharging the battery it has completely stopped and now seems to be working fine.Also, got one of those ex-military thermal imagers that mikeselectricstuff had for sale but having some issues with it. I should probably post in the dedicated thread, but it only seems to be showing people/objects in proper focus at 5 meters away, anything beyond that is a blurry mess. I thought it was good from 25-200m?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 09:02:39 pm
content: Good news on the 470.Do start another thread on the Ex. Military camera. They came with two lens options, refractive or reflective. Your 'fault' symptoms seem unusual though. Also bear in mind that, being Ex Military, I will not say too much about the inner workings or design of these camerasFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 12:10:24 am
content: This belongs in a new thread but just thinking about your Ex Military camera proble..... the camera body is a standard unit that may be fitted with different lenses. I have the refractor and reflective versions,Now just because either lens will fit, it does not mean they are interchangeable without some adjustments. It i pissibke that the backfocus distance requires setting for each type of lens. Your camera is trying to operate in a focus zone that is far closer than intended in the design. That would suggest the distance between the lens rear element and microbolometer is too great. It does not take much back focus distance error to mess things up on the focus point front.Your camera body and lens may have got mixed up with another camera body and lens resulting in an accidental lens type swap. Mike had cameras with both lens versions.Thus is all conjecture on my part but, to my mind, it might explain the unusual focus point and lack of DOF performance. Moving a lens from set large DOF fixed focus to a close focus mode changes the DOF dramatically. The lens is basically not set at its optimum focal point for a DOF covering The expected distance. The other possibility is that someone adjusted the focus point in an effort to make the camera more useful for shorter range working. You will need to delve inside to see whether the back focus is easily adjusted.Fraser

author: Mox
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 03:51:33 am
content: Ok, I'll try and start a new thread with some comparison and interior photos tomorrow.