Terminal contacts grease substitutes for batteries? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 05:48:08 am
content: Hello. I don't have terminal contacts grease but I do have WD-40 specialist silicone spray and silicone grease.Would both work for protecting AA/AAA alkaline and NiMH batteries - (minus) surfaces from oxidation and corrosion? I have already applied contact cleaner.Thanks

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 06:56:55 am
content: If you get an insulator like silicone between the cell terminals and the spring terminals, there's a good chance the device will stop working. Woe betide you if you get in inside a power switch...

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 10:53:46 am
content: Vaseline, the universal contact lubricant and corrosion protector.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 11:00:03 am
content: Unlikely to protect from anything. NiMH will not leak. When alkaline leaks, not likely it will save anything.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 12:09:27 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on October 29, 2022, 05:48:08 amAs AVGresponding said, don’t use silicone. While I think it’s unlikely to prevent electrical contact, if the silicone is heated (like in an arcing event, including e.g. when you see a spark) it can decompose into silicon dioxide (sand), which is an abrasive. Hence the NEVER getting silicone into switches warning!!

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 02:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: wraperHere are 4 NiMH batteries that I have corroding. Had I left them inside any device it would spread onto terminals and further into device to the point where it will need to go to thrash.(Click to enlarge)Quote from: tookiEven if silicon grease was with dielectric properties? Would arch happen on the minus end of battery?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 04:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 29, 2022, 11:00:03 amWhatever gave you that idea? I just replaced the NiMH backup batteries in a bunch of timer outlets. 3 of 4 had leaked.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 04:12:22 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on October 29, 2022, 02:26:37 pmYes, even if it’s dielectric grease. It’s fine for things like car battery contacts where the contacts are bolted down. (And honestly, it’d probably be fine in most battery situations.) But you can’t use it anywhere you have arcing, which is what happens when a connection is disconnected while current is flowing. The more current and the higher the voltage, the more arcing.Not sure why you think it would affect one end of the battery more than the other. Electricity flows in a circuit.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 04:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 29, 2022, 04:04:55 pmWeren't those actually NiCd? While NiMH can leak a bit, it's very rare. As of those batteries on the picture design on the sleeve looks dodgy, cannot see what brand they are.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2022, 10:58:37 pm
content: The ones I replaced were definitely NiMH.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 01:14:26 am
content: I never had a problem with silicone dielectric grease.The spring should push through the grease and make a good contact unless its really really really bad.For the contacts all you need to do is smear a very thin layer of grease with like a q-tip on the battery face. It should improve the contact. It will flow out of the way of the contact but increase thermal transfer and decrease point heating on the contact surface by conducting the heat.If you want to try to protect the spring with dielectirc grease, it will look ugly, but it should not effect it electrically. Get a q-tip thats absorbed the grease and push it around the spring to put a film on it if you want to see if it protects it from corrosion. People like pack cavities with the stuff to increase water resistance, but for corrosion protection, all you need is a film.The only thing you don't want silicone grease in would be like a switch that arcs heavily. Like a low voltage high current DC switch/relay.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 04:27:29 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on October 30, 2022, 01:14:26 amSame here. Been using it on portable console sliding switches as the Gameboy Advance that I know to oxidise and do a bad connection (making the Power LED flick like crazy from green to red, even with proper new batteries). Just clean it with Isopropyl, apply a very thin film using a small brush and then close it. I have one GBA that I've been using every day for the last 6 years (around 10 circles of ON/Off per day) without any problems of bad connection.

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 09:22:34 am
content: Quote from: wraperIt is BTY brand. Bought them a decade ago on some Chinese website. I almost didn't use them.(Click to enlarge)Quote from: coppercone2 on October 30, 2022, 01:14:26 amSo despite that I have the following I should still get dielectric grease for protecting spring against corrosion?- WD-40 silicone spray- Random Chinese silicone grease- Made in Germany silicone grease (as seller claims)Quote from: Black PhoenixWere you using silicone grease with or without dielectric properties? Does it matter whether I use a brush or q-tip when applying the layer? A very thin film is what WD-40 silicone spray could accomplish when sprayed on q-tip or brush but is it okay and as good as dielectric silicone grease?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 09:39:35 am
content: I do prefer deoxit grease though, because its easy to wipe away. I am not sure if it has the staying power of silicone, but for stuff near microelectronics, at least I can get rid of it with alcohol.The silicone I leave for like heavy duty hardwareI would recommend deoxit grease, if you can get it, but silicone grease is usually fine. Just when you apply it you need to be really precise. Keep a bag around to throw away contaminated objects. I had fun trying to scrub it off a stone lab table before

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 09:41:28 am
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on October 30, 2022, 09:22:34 amExplains why they leakedhttps://www.amazon.com/BTY-Rechargeable-NiMH-Batteries-1000mAh/product-reviews/B003BWAH9I(look on reviews) as you bought complete garbage with fake capacity.https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/do-not-buy-bty-ni-mh-batteries.117687/AA/AAA NiMH almost never leak. I've seen some reports of small batteries which are soldered onto PCB leaking, but that's about it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 09:42:20 am
content: I have seen real eneloops leak. They don't leak alot but it does occur at the positive terminal.BTW I don't know if I would recommend silicone WD40, I do use it, but I had stuff rust with it on. Its just not as good as grease.Take a piece of clear glass, spray some on, and see what happens over time.. I always meant to.I use the silicone wd40 for things that are hard to access/annoying and I need it working with lubrication that is more trustworthy and longer lasting then regular wd40 which is kinda dodgy for protection IMO. I don't think it would be my top choice for a 'easy to access job', but you would need to do experiments, I never found the time to try to get to the bottom of lubrication.. it might be acceptable. I bet it would be OK for wafer toggle switches.. but I use deoxit spray for that. Sometimes dealing with the metal folds breaking is more annoying then using excess lubricant.One thing I do like from wd40 is the long term corrosion inhibotor that smells like mothballs.. well you can mothball something with that. I sprayed it on stuff I just don't have the energy to protect otherwise, and its in surprisingly good condition after being left in un regulated nearly outdoor conditions for long periods of time. I guess its cosmoline spray. But it gets really tacky and eventually dries up like wax or something. But better then having to clean a bunch of flat bars from rust 2 years later after throwing them under a awning. Clean it off with a rag of fresh regular WD40 from the bottle or cheap solvent of choice before use. Kind of expensive but it prevented some rage IMO.And I don't know what silicone without dielectric properties is. Maybe it means that its more pure. Some electrical greases have like silicone dioxide in them for some reason, I don't know why. I assume its incredibly fine powder. But all silicone is very dielectric. When they give it a dielectric grade, it might be related to high voltage behavior. Perhaps some grades have a lower dielectric constant, (worse at arc prevention). Unless its another reason, I don't think you need to worry about that with batteries unless its in a electric car or something (like a passanger car). Or it might have to do with the consistency, i.e. for the 'grease packing' application I mentioned, you might need a assurance for code reasons that the grease will not flow out of the enclosure and stay in the same place for 20 years to make a ingress seal. Perhaps they add some stuff to it to make it more thick.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2022, 11:29:59 pm
content: Wouldn't the best protection here be a sacrificial little circular sheet of metal? A washer but without the central hole. Conductive, and able to be the first victim of a battery leak before the messy stuff can reach the device's built-in terminals?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2022, 02:23:27 am
content: Quote from: wraper on October 29, 2022, 11:00:03 amLike NiCd, NiMH will eventually still leak, or leak if overcharged.

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 05:37:48 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on October 29, 2022, 04:04:55 pmThere's eneloop/Sanyo brand of LSD (low self-discharge) NiMH batteries that still retain 75% of charge after 10 years if stored unused. Which brand have you used that leaked?Quote from: David Hess on October 31, 2022, 02:23:27 amWhich brands? Not the ones with batteries with LSD capability? Somehow I highly doubt brands like eneloop will leak.

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 05:45:32 pm
content: Quote from: wraperAre you referring to certain brands with LSD batteries like eneloop?I am wondering whether I should put lithium AA betteries or LSD batteries into AC remote. I only use it in summer, maybe a few times in winter. The rest of seasons it remains unused. I could store it without batteries but I want a "set it and forget it" solution where I could store it with batteries without worrying about them leaking and rendering remote control unusable.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 06:21:05 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on November 07, 2022, 05:37:48 pmThey are still NiMH cells, which themselves are constructed the same way NiCd cells are. I have had a few normal NiMH cells leak exactly like NiCd cells do. None of my low self discharge NiMH cells are old enough yet for that, but mistreat them and they will leak.The difference in construction of a low self discharge NiMH cell is the same as low self discharge NiCd cells, if you remember those. The big difference is that a thicker (polypropylene?) separator is used which is why they have less capacity.It is not something I would ever worry about. A leaking alkaline cell makes a much larger mess.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 09:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on November 07, 2022, 05:37:48 pmWhat do unused LSD batteries have to do with anything? I said I replaced the backup batteries inside some timers. They were in service for many years, apparently.They’re little 80mAh 2-pin NiMH button cells with through-hole pins. The original and replacement are both Troily (a Chinese brand). Couldn’t use a name brand replacement because none of the name brands make the 2-pin pinout.Regardless, my point was simple: anyone claiming “NiMHwill notleak” is wrong. Do they leak as often as alkaline? Heck no! But they certainly are not categorically immune to it.

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 01:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: tookiI thought LSD makes these less prone to leaks and wondered whether I should them in remote control or lithiums.How are these 80mAh 2-pin button cells with through-hole pins recharged?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 12:15:44 am
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on November 08, 2022, 01:27:43 pmTrickle charge with a resistor.Cheap solar lights will have a diode straight from the solar cell to the battery.https://www.varta-ag.com/fileadmin/varta_microbattery/downloads/service/battery-documentation/nickel-metal-hydride/Sales-Literature-201810_HANDBOOK_Rechargeable_Button_Cells_NiMH_en.pdf