Generator runs on water? WTF?? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: SNGLinks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:09:21 pm
content: http://www.gdstechnologies.ca/index.html

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:20:06 pm
content: Never trust a guy wearing a suit! Ha.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:20:47 pm
content: Wow, what can I say but wow.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:26:50 pm
content: I had once an old car like this. I had to add water for the radiator every day or two.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:28:45 pm
content: Yeah... well:Q: I thought you need a running stream or a pond or river to create this amount of energy? ?A: Yes you are correct however with the setup of many coils and magnets make up for the amount of energy required for each application.Of course, magnets!

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:38:34 pm
content: Quote from: SNGLinks on October 31, 2014, 03:09:21 pmGood to see Ric Flair found a job.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:49:41 pm
content: They don't take credit cards, 50% deposit with order.Can't decide if it is a scam or just the relatively well presented work of another free energy nut job.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:52:29 pm
content: "Now if you take a look, there is no wires" Yeah, just two batteries and two 2000W inverters. He has no shame left at all.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 03:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on October 31, 2014, 03:52:29 pmWHAT!? I just ordered 12!

author: Kaptein QK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 04:00:26 pm
content: I will buy one, power a de-humidifier with it and feed the water to the generator! wooooo!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 04:17:28 pm
content: wait... wait.. so this thing generates portable water ?what will they invent next.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 04:38:59 pm
content: I am not clicking that dowload full spec sheet, nope!Used to keep ferrets and know you can never trust a weasel! ;pOn the bright side, I bet it doesn't use much water

author: Dongulus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 04:47:53 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 31, 2014, 04:17:28 pmI think you're confused. This statement from their website will make everythingcompletelyclear:Quote

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 05:12:51 pm
content: Quote from: Dongulus on October 31, 2014, 04:47:53 pmIt's a Mobius strip of junk science woo!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 05:33:47 pm
content: And the first thing they mention in the video is the tyres..."there's no wires no extension cords, nothing powering this unit"... except these 2 honking great BATTERIES!Is anyone really dumb enough to fall for this.... sad thing is probably yes.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 05:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: Dongulus on October 31, 2014, 04:47:53 pmso the more water you add the more water you get ? i see no laws of physics were abused , bent or otherwise harmed ...

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 06:10:13 pm
content: Wow, look at that. What are all those random unconnected parts? If that thing to the left of the batteries is a real generator you could put an actual engine in it use the batteries as a UPS. Although it might be just a motor to make noise.A real water generator would have to use a small turbine and connect to a hose or something.Find out what happens when you actually put water in it.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 06:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on October 31, 2014, 04:17:28 pmI'm a portable beer-into-water converter. Does that count?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 06:39:54 pm
content: There's nothing in the pictures to let you judge the size of these things. Maybe they are a couple of kilometres on each side. The water bill might be a bit steep, though.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 08:09:06 pm
content: Actually, you can burn water to produce excess energy.However, HF is a nasty, nasty poisonous stuff, so their "no fumes" claim is so false...

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 08:25:39 pm
content: I don't get it. He would only need to rip off a single person before being charged with fraud. Is he planning on taking a bulk of pre-orders then flying non-stop to Switzerland?

author: atferrari
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 08:36:49 pm
content: The most touching detail: the water hose connection.BTW, wondering what that idiot does in daily life.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 08:55:42 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on October 31, 2014, 08:09:06 pmBah, try chlorine trifluoride, or FOOF.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoridehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxygen_difluoride

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 10:10:55 pm
content: This one amuses me the most. 15kW @ 110V is 136A. 15kW @ 230V is 65A you would need a massive socket on that, along with much bigger coils etc inside there. utter rubbish.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 10:24:07 pm
content: There are standard 63A and 125A 230v plugs used for generators etc.http://uk.farnell.com/walther/269306/plug-free-230v-63a-2p-e-way/dp/7162674http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/industrial-power-connectors/6796930/

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2014, 10:33:49 pm
content: Quote from: TCWilliamson on October 31, 2014, 10:10:55 pmActually no, you don't. That's 15kw through all sockets together, not each one, they have circuit breakers. The rickety ones in that won't handle it though. 15KW generators seem pretty common, and a whole lot cheaper than $15k. Power != price.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 02:54:20 am
content: It makes 3000 watts per hour.He said so.

author: croyleje
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 03:04:33 am
content: I have seen things similar on youtube i think it is just a simple brown's gas generator or commonly known as a hydrogen/oxygen generator (HOO gen) feeding a very small internal combustion generator ie. useless. More power is used then generated no free lunch just an idiot. You would be better off using those two deep cycle batteries hooked up to that inverter inside that $15000 sheet metal box.Jason

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 04:14:18 am
content: I thought it was a spelling mistake.Should have been:Potable Water Generator

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 05:48:19 am
content: Having had a look at their facebook page, I think there will be plenty of chumps willing to cough their coin for this scam.

author: firehopper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 09:22:48 am
content: and if you look closely, it seems only one of those batteries are actually connectedthe one on the right doesn't seem to be connected

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 11:11:32 am
content: According to what is surely the most serious, well researched and naturally sceptical web resource on free energy (),PESWikisuggests this works by having a small water turbine that drives a generator, which powers a motor driven pump to squirt water at the turbine. A bit like coupling a motor to a generator to get perpetual motion, but with considerably more system losses

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 11:32:14 am
content: Fun fact: Some WW2 planes were equipped with a feature called WEP, or Water Emergency Power. It would inject water into the air intake, cooling the engine block and generating steam which increased horsepower. It was reserved for use during dog fights, escapes and interception.Similar in concept to NOS (Naawwwwwssss -Paul Walker) but not quite as much power. Free though. And it did give combustion chambers a nice cleaning.So maybe this water generator is using a V12 Rolls Royce from a P-51 Mustang. How do you know it isn't!Sent from my Smartphone

author: MasterBuilder
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 12:01:40 pm
content: The real scam here is in the refund and delivery policy.It is marketed for backup power in the event of weather emergency and power failure, i.e. occasional events. A buyer is likely to test this after purchase when the real power source (batteries) has charge and consider this working. Then the buyer stows this away until the next emergency, by which time the refund Time (15 days) has elapsed and the only option is replacement of the "defective" unit.Also the refund policy does not cover delivery cost. If a reasonable 5% of cost is charged for delivery (250 for the 5000 unit) and a customer insists on refund the scammer is still up the 250 minus the actual cost of delivery, say 50 to 100 dollars.

author: ampdoctor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 12:37:10 pm
content: Did you know that 1 liter of urine contains enough hydrogen to power an engine for 1000 hours?(I saw it on the interweb so it must be true!) In my expert opinion everybody should piss all over this thing!

author: rr100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 01:03:21 pm
content: Quote from: Rufus on October 31, 2014, 03:49:41 pmThose aren't mutually exclusive...so the answer is YES!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 02:04:51 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on October 31, 2014, 03:38:34 pmShame that Ric blew all the money he made from wrestling and has to have a (dis)honest job.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 02:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on November 01, 2014, 02:04:51 pmI think it's just Ric's wig that found a job.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 02:21:48 pm
content: Quote from: timb on November 01, 2014, 11:32:14 amIt's legit, the B-52 also has water injection to augment thrust on takeoff.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 05:56:55 pm
content: During an emergency one has to be concerned aboutsavingwater, not wasting it.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2014, 06:55:14 pm
content: It's really astonishing they decided to create a scam that will so quickly show that it's not working. Usually the idea of cheating people is that they don't detect immediately that they were fooled.But how long will that thing run until the battery is dead without even connecting any load? A few hours maybe? What then? I mean theymusthave a mid term plan even if they are the most stupid scammers in the world. Have they maybe some contract model to get money for exchanging the batteries every day or something like this?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 11:14:32 am
content: I think we need a reality check after all this generator nonsense. ->http://timecube.com/

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 11:46:30 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 02, 2014, 11:14:32 amYeah, thanks for that.

author: ludzinc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 12:02:10 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on November 01, 2014, 02:21:48 pmAye, it's true. You can get water injection for your car too.Works a little different from what timb quotes (cools the intake air, makes it denser. More air into a cylinder = more fuel you can burn = MORE POWER (insert best Clarson impersonation here).The cooler / denser charge also means you can increase your boost, for even more air etc...

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 01:16:41 pm
content: Quote from: ludzinc on November 02, 2014, 12:02:10 pmIt is used in some classes of drag-racing, and some turbine-engines also use it, I've read somewhere that the black smoke during take-off is due to the water-injection, cools down the gas so the turbine does not overheat (= possible to add more fuel) but decrease efficiency...

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 02:23:16 pm
content: Water injection is used to suppress detonation, so it permit higher boost pressures to be used. The water itself doesn't add to the power output, in fact it reduces it since it is displacing fuel and air.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 02:51:05 pm
content: Actually, it's a fine mist of water that, as mentioned above cools the air, which makes it denser, so you could say that you'd be getting the same amount of air. That said, the water is compressed as it's heating; around the point it turns to a gas is optimally top stroke, so you get a mild performance boost from the expansion. (On a car engine, at least.) [Plus suppressing detonation and cooling the turbo, both allowing higher boost.]An alternative to water is methadone. I know some WW2 German fighters used it. It makes the air cooler/denser *and* is combustible!A big thing in the car modding scene now is to tap the Windshield Washer Tank and either fill it with straight water, or just use windshield washing fluid which contains Methamphetamines as an anti-freeze agent.Sent from my Smartphone

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 03:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: MasterBuilder on November 01, 2014, 12:01:40 pmVery much like those fake "shake to power" torches that are actually powered by batteries.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 03:50:09 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 02, 2014, 03:04:05 pmThose are dormant batteries that have sea water to activate them when needed. No mystery there. Their claim is not that they run on water but that they are not active until you do so, so they are not flat when you need them.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 04:12:28 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on November 02, 2014, 03:50:09 pmNo, not that ones, this:Shaking makes a magnet move through the coil.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 09:17:00 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on November 02, 2014, 02:23:16 pm+1 for that.Another reason injecting water into a naturally aspirated engine actually reduces power is that unlike when you heat air as the working fluid it expands and/or increases in pressure, a liquid, in this case water, needs a significant amount of energy to evaporate itwithout actually having raised the temperature.This is called latent heat of evaporation and it is energy effectively lost to the combustion cycle. Only when the water vapour later condenses in the outside atmosphere is the energy returned but that is way to late to be of any use. Water is basically bad news for a properly running naturally aspirated engine. It can help if fuel octane is too low or compression ratio is too high or engine is carboned up, but fix those things and it will run better than with adding water.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 09:26:00 pm
content: Having said the above, if the water droplets evaporate during the compression stroke thereby reducing the air temperature and consequently the amount of work needed to compress that air... Hmm.... Dunno. Although the energy needed to compress the air would normally be recouped on the expansion stroke, so maybe not.

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 09:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 02, 2014, 09:17:00 pmI guess that the proper solution in the air-plane case would be to double up size/number of engines, for some reason "they" don't want to do thatThey'd rather have 50% extra power for 200% more fuel consumption during take-off.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 10:08:24 pm
content: i think that this thing producing energy is pure vapor (pun intended )

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 10:42:53 pm
content: Quote from: wiss on November 02, 2014, 09:55:03 pmIf the extra power is only needed for a very small percentage of flight time then the downside would appear to be acceptable. The alternative is the weight and cost of the extra engines that would be under-utliised for the vast majority of the time.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 11:16:27 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 02, 2014, 09:26:00 pmYou can get more power out of an engine at lower air temperatures because the air intake density is greater, meaning you can get a larger mass of air into the cylinder with each intake stroke, meaning you can burn more fuel in the power stroke (more oxygen present), meaning more power.Now, suppose you cool the intake air by injecting water and letting it evaporate. The evaporated water will have a molecular weight of 18, which is somewhat lower than the molecular weight of nitrogen (28) or oxygen (32). So the water-laden air will have a lower density than dry air, and on top of that the water vapor will displace some of the oxygen in the charge (so the air will no longer contain 21% oxygen as normal, it will contain rather less). It follows that for two reasons there will now belessoxygen in the intake charge (lower air density, displaced oxygen), countering the desired effect of a lower intake temperature (higher air density). I haven't done the calculations, but my intuition says power will go down if you try this.On the other hand, suppose you inject water droplets and don't allow them to evaporate before reaching the cylinder. This time no significant amount of air will be displaced, so no oxygen starvation will occur. On the other hand, the liquid water will evaporate in the cylinder with the combustion heat and increase the expansion power of the hot gases (making the internal combustion engine a kind of hybrid steam engine). In this case it may be that the power could be increased, though again I have not worked through the thermodynamic analysis to put numbers on it. Presumably if it was a viable proposition there would be water injectors in every car engine, and there are not...

author: wiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2014, 11:23:20 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on November 02, 2014, 11:16:27 pmIt will become a major problem if the temperature drops below 0 degC.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 01:20:30 am
content: Quote from: timb on November 02, 2014, 02:51:05 pmThose have got to be the best pair of autocorrect mistakes I've seen in a long time. I assume both of those were suppose to read Methanol.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:32:18 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 03, 2014, 01:20:30 amHaha, shiiiit. Yes, methanol was what I was after. Damn you iOS8!Sent from my Smartphone

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 03:34:24 am
content: Quote from: wiss on November 02, 2014, 11:23:20 pmAlso you'd have to keep a huge tank of water in your car, which weighs it down, reducing gas mileage and nulling the benefits.Sent from my Smartphone

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 05:50:02 am
content: Quote from: IanB on November 02, 2014, 11:16:27 pmThe Pressure-Volume-Temperature equation has to balance, so substitution of water vapour for air in part of full won't make any real difference to the expansion power. What will make a difference is the energyabsorbedfrom the hot gases to turn that liquid water into vapour.As a test, suppose you have a container of hot high pressure air. Squirt a small amount of water into it and it instantly turns to vapour. Does the pressure increase or decrease? If it increases you have an (almost) free energy machine. What definitely *will* happen is the injected water evaporating causes the overall temperature to drop. Almost certainly that will cause a pressure drop, the opposite of what you want.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 06:26:51 pm
content: You do know the new Euro spec diesel cars ( with the blue efficiency labels) have a special tank in them, containing a very expensive to buy ( but so cheap to synthesise with a standard Haber process plant) concentrated urea. Most of the cost is in the fancy bottle and the blue dye added to make it look impressive, while it is just concentrated urea like what you have to unload every morning. It serves no function in the engine, just used to clean the exhaust of nitrogen oxides, and it only works when the engine is warm, so most of the time it is no use.

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:00:11 pm
content: A happy synergy on long car trips though.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 08:01:09 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 03, 2014, 06:26:51 pmNow if we could only easily power cars from methane, we could drive non-stop forever thanks to drive-thru Taco Bells and Big Gulps!Sent from my Smartphone

author: SirNick
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 11:23:07 pm
content: Taco Bell: Where every meal is a #2.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 01:40:04 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 03, 2014, 05:50:02 amIf you set up a Diesel engine to inject water instead of fuel oil this would be an identical situation. I strongly suspect it doesn't produce worthwhile results.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 07:05:33 pm
content: Quote from: wiss on November 02, 2014, 09:55:03 pmYes, but keep in mind that weight is a huge deal in aircraft design. A (more realistic) 20% power boost with poor fuel efficiency when you need it is a much better solution for something like a fighter, or a plane that needs an extra boost on take-off, vs. adding hundreds of kg or more of weight in additional engines. Not to mention the mechanical complexity of the latter solution, as well as aerodynamic compromises that would have to be made.EDIT: Also, WEP stands for "WarEmergency Power", not water. WEP was the term for any throttle setting above 100%. On some planes this just meant running the engine above its rated RPM, on others it involved water or methanol injection. Some planes like later versions of the Messerschmidt Bf 109 had two or three WEP settings, involving different performance boosting methods. Pushing a plane into WEP usually meant pushing the throttle hard enough to break a wire blocking off the higher setting. This way the mechanics would know if WEP was used, and could perform the necessary additional maintenance checks.

author: dave_j_fan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 10:04:39 pm
content: i suggest mini generatorpour cold water on a rat ...he will vibrate..put piezo sensors/magnetdrive to get electric power

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 10:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on November 03, 2014, 05:50:02 amThat's part of the point. Running leaner air/fuel mixtures boosts engine efficiency (up to a point), but a very lean mixture would quickly cause the engine to overheat. Adding water injection cools it down to acceptable levels.

author: mswhin63
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 03:42:21 am
content: I wonder if anyone on the forum lives nearby to verify the claim and maybe inform the forum what they are scamming.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 04:40:40 am
content: Quote from: mswhin63 on November 05, 2014, 03:42:21 amNo need, they are scamming. What they others are talking about is not even about the OP anymore

author: Kevman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 07:48:04 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 03, 2014, 06:26:51 pmBeen common in the US for years on diesels. Diesel vehicle reliability took a nose dive in 2003 in the US because of manufacturer's struggling to meet pollution laws- a 2003 diesel F250 is worth more than a 2005 for that reason. Its just now getting back on track...You guys are talking about methanol injection, which just limits combustion chamber temps to inhibit detonation. For efficiency uses, there are 6 cycle engines- which inject water and work like a steam engine after the exhaust stroke. I don't know of any currently in production, though.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 09:43:30 pm
content: There are no 6-cycle engines in production because they don't work. See posts 61 and 66.The Crower engine for example has a conventional expansion stroke but then instead of then opening the exhaust valve it re-compresses the expanded gases and at the top of the next stroke injects water, hoping for another power stroke. The thing is, the energy you receive from the first expansion stroke is almost totally expended by re-compressing these hot gases. And then injecting water into the hot gases at the top of the stroke doesn't work for the same reason you can't run a Diesel engine on water - doing so absorbs heat, it doesn't liberate heat.