3D Printing - Smoothieboards - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2016, 09:58:29 pm
content: Hi guys,I have been looking at purchasing a few Smoothieboards for my 3D printer, along with some other CNC projects I have on the go. My only problem is that they tend to go for around £120 each. I was just wondering if people would be interested in purchasing the bare boards instead as I have looked around and have found a website that, as a basic quote, are saying roughly $10/ea if 5 are bought, going down significantly in higher quantities.Along with this, I would plan to reduce the costs further by purchasing components in bulk so that kits could be made, or possibly pre-soldered for you.I would just love to get some of these boards, but would need the help of forum members who are also interested to actually make it financially viable.Kind regards,D

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 12:29:51 am
content: whats so special about smoothie board? why dont you buy ramps board and arduino?

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 12:44:44 am
content: Let's reduce your costUS $49https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/3D-printing-device-MKS-SBASE-V1-3-32bit-Arm-platform-for-Smoothieware-control-board-integrated-Microcontroller/1000003315147.html?spm=2114.30010508.3.46.FW3Qea&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10069_10084_10083_10017_10080_10082_10081_10060_10061_10062_10056_10055_10054_10059_10078_10079_10073_10070_421_420_10052_10053_10050_10051,searchweb201603_8&btsid=ec84b74b-d78d-49d8-ad58-d972bc6c9b73

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 01:57:17 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on October 26, 2016, 12:44:44 amstill expensive. arduino mega + ramps board is near $10

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 02:21:03 am
content: Arduino Mega can not handle 5 axis in delta mode with a graphics display, Arduino is a poor's man option,

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 03:24:53 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on October 26, 2016, 02:21:03 amfrom the smoothie layout, its similar to what ramps has... X,Y,Z,E1,E0 (5 DOF) for stepper connections. and ramps has 3 power fet / pwm output, smoothie got 4 at the bottom, not sure how important the extra 1 heater... ramps has 3 thermistor sensing, smoothie got 4, ramps has 6 endstop switches sensing, i guess thats the 6 white 3pins connection on the right of smoothie. and oh yes, ramps support 20x04 lcd monitor, encoder, sd card and other free aux pins that i have no need yet on my latest build. the marlin FW support is Humongous i'm not sure about that smoothie. but yeah, if ARM chip is what you really need, then $40 extra maybe not a problem.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 04:34:37 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 26, 2016, 12:29:51 amRAMPS is crappy engineering. It's horrible for about fifty different reasons.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 07:25:56 am
content: I'm in for a couple of bare boards if shipping to Spain is not crazy.

author: pix3l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 08:17:39 am
content: If the shipping to the Netherlands is OK I would like a bare board as well!QuoteThe big benefit of of the smoothieboard is that it is 32 bit instead of 8. The mega2560 can handle an average 3d printer OK but once you start to add more like a nicer display, ethernet or 0.9 degree stepper motors instead of 1.8 it starts to crumble under your feet.. Adding the maths behind a delta printer makes it even more challenging on an 8 bit controller.About the MKS SBASE: it is a cheap board but the documentation is kind of crappy and support I think you can forget about. I've heard some good stories about smoothie support.Just my two cents..

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 08:35:25 am
content: I have used the Ramp board in the past, along with MKS Base boards, but they are very much limited in the power they can supply, processing speed, along with a few other problems. The Ramps board is certainly a poor choice for anyone wanting to get more serious about the CNC world. The Smoothieboard is also much more suitable for CNC milling as well, something which I plan on having a go a building.I have also had a look at the Duet Board, but it is limited compared to the Smoothieboard.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 08:40:47 am
content: Along with that, it is great that I have a few willing to join me. If we could get some more we could make it significantly cheaper so does anybody know anyone else that would be interested? Shipping would be fine if you could add a little for shipping. Bare boards would be fine as well, but I will obviously be buying parts anyway so buying wholesale would just make sense. Yes, Pix3l is definitely correct there; the 32 bit controller is much more capable in all respect, and combined with the more powerful and advanced stepper controllers it is by far a superior board.

author: pix3l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 11:03:59 am
content: I would be in for group-buying the components!The duet also has a new version now by the way: adding wifi and very nice stepper drivers: TMC2660

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 01:13:58 pm
content: I don't thing that making the board and buying the components you can do for less than 49 USD there have a lot of expensive parts ( specially in low volume ), I'm more included to buy the MKS since it's based on smothie 100% compatible, ok they have that "chinese appearance".... but who cares justify the price because worksIf you plan to make the board you will also need a stencil to make a decent soldering on the board with reflow or hot air and will be very hard to be near the price of a Mks board.Another possible path is to use arduino due, and external motor drivers, with a due version of smothies, My opinion at this point in time MKS is the the best bang for the buck to be in smothie world

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 06:39:57 pm
content: Well I have found a place to make the boards for roughly $4/board if you order 20, and even cheaper if you buy more. Do you really think components are that expensive?

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 07:35:12 pm
content: Processor +- 10 USDhttp://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NXP-Semiconductors/LPC1768FBD100551/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsX0CFs5rpLHt3sQgsucMfJallegro 3.47 * 5 = 17,37http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/allegro-microsystems-llc/A4982SLPTR-T/620-1352-1-ND/2295513Board 4Only those 3 itens = 31,15 USDHave a lot more to includeFor sure you will never make this at home for less than 49 USD

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 07:59:35 pm
content: Quote from: Deaniture onTodayat 19:39:57At that price I'm in for 5.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2016, 09:46:45 pm
content: EBCLRI don't know how much you have look around, but I have quickly found the A4982 for less than $2/piece when buying only 10 - it would obviously go down when buying more.Along with that, the LPC1768 can be bought for less than $5 when buying 20 - again, this would go down when buying wholesale.Resistors and capacitors can be bought for less than half a cent.I haven't finished my final price up, but I will let you know when I do (probably tomorrow afternoon).Yes, EdoNork, the bare boards are dirt cheap.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 01:03:27 am
content: Let's wait for the finished

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 02:22:11 am
content: I'll get it priced and get back to you.D

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 03:30:44 am
content: Quote from: Deaniture on October 27, 2016, 02:22:11 amgood luck!

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 04:33:49 am
content: If you value your time at 0, and buy second-hand components from China (well, the same on the MKS one I'm sure), you may just beat the price of the ready-assembled version...As a soldering practice experience, sure...

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2016, 01:16:07 pm
content: How can you be sureI beat that you are wrong, MKS for sure use new components, I already went to the factories and see fresh news smd reels there.It's not smart to thing that everything in china is fake , bad quality or something else, there everything is available the good and the bad, the main point for low price is lower margins, less regulations and waste low cost labor, they don't need to have a team of lawyer on every company, they don't need to pay Hugh bonus for Directors.If there everything was fake or bad quality they didn't have be so competitive around the world, I beat that you are sited on a Chinese chair, using a Chinese keyboard, on a Chinese computer connected to a chine router, pluged on a Chinese mains plug.It's hard to accept but Europeans and Americans lost the band wagon for China, and this is only the beginning, wait until they learn English and occidental marketing on mass, Take a look on what a small country like Korea did, and extrapolate to what chine will do.

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 28, 2016, 06:10:43 am
content: Fair enough, you're right I can't be sure, and I meant no disrespect to the company...And to be sure if you buy a pre-built board you can expect it to work out of the boxIt's just that in general the supply in China has quite a lot of recycled components. And they get supplied on reels too...When I need an original component, I tell my (Chinese) distributor I need the "original, new imported" one and they tell me that's going to cost around 20% more. Which doesn't mean that the other ones are necessarily recycled, but...

author: pix3l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2016, 09:27:59 am
content: Personally I think that price shouldn't be the biggest parameter of a product evaluation.... When I read Arthur Wolf 's (and other peoples) response in this threadhttp://hackaday.com/2016/07/19/new-part-day-sts-32-bit-3d-printer-controller/I thought I might rather support Smoothie in this case than Sbase..

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2016, 03:25:40 pm
content: I don't thing that paying 220 USD for that board, you are supporting Arthur Wolf 'sInstead you are supporting the big corporations behind , like digikey, mouser and others and even Obama careBuy the 49 USD one and send a 30 USD Patreon or paypal contribution to Arthur Wolf 's will be a better deal for both.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 12:26:46 am
content: So, sorry it's been a while - very busy with work!I have done the majority of the pricing now. I believe I can get the boards for roughly £5-6 if 20+ are bought. Components coming in at around £25. Final figure not yet worked out, but would obviously reduce with an increase in the number bought.RegardsD

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 05, 2016, 04:37:08 pm
content: I'm still interested in some bare boards.

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2016, 09:22:04 am
content: Hey, I'd be interested in a board if this is happening! (Are you assembling?)

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 05:00:30 pm
content: Yes, it will be happening, although I am working so it will be a few weeks or so before I get any materials in; I will also need to do some test runs to ensure the PCB house is able to get the board right.I probably won't be assembling, purely because of the time, although I might be willing to do so for a price.

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2016, 08:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: Deaniture on November 08, 2016, 05:00:30 pmDepending on how many boards you have. I know a local PCB assembler you could get them assembled with in the UK.(Where are you based? I'm in the South, Bournemouth Area.)

author: pix3l
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 04:30:22 pm
content: Not sure if serious or trolling...

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 05:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: elecrow2012 on November 09, 2016, 03:35:32 pmU 'avin a giggle m8?That's like saying discount brand chocolate spread is better then Nutella.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 09, 2016, 08:09:19 pm
content: That's some kind of spam.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2016, 05:05:03 pm
content: Quote from: CM800 on November 08, 2016, 08:52:36 pmHi, sorry it's been a while.I have priced up all of the components, and will be doing tests shortly. I am based in the UK - are you able to direct me to their website?ThanksD

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 03:57:09 am
content: Hello everyoneI hope people are still following this post, as I am keen to get this going.I have come to the conclusion that I could probably sell the boards on their own for c.£8 each if 20 or more were bought, going down if it, by some miracle, gets to 50!I then have the pricing of the components which I said above (but cannot see as I am writing this, and can't remember off the top of my head!).Going by these calculations, what is the consensus?Kind regardsD

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 04:00:45 am
content: And just for reference, at 50+ the bare boards would go for £5-7 each.Please get as many people involved as you can so we can reduce this even further!!

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 08:12:55 am
content: I only need a couple, but for the price I would have 10 to help.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 10:27:38 am
content: Quote from: EdoNork on November 20, 2016, 08:12:55 amOk, that sounds awesome, thanks! I'll probably be wanting one or two personally so it really depends how many people we can get involved?Would you want them bare boards/kits/assembled?

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 10:28:52 am
content: Bareboards.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 10:30:36 am
content: If I were to only order 10, it would probably be c.£12 /board so we do need to increase the volume to make it realistic.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 10:54:56 am
content: Ok, that's fine.

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 11:06:54 am
content: I will grab one as a backup.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2016, 02:02:23 pm
content: 👍

author: Unordung
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 10:47:00 am
content: When can we expect the boards to be manufactured / available?

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 05:44:49 pm
content: It can be done whenever really, it's just that an order of 25+ is needed really to make it a reasonable price; I believe I have about 13 at the moment. I will order it beforehand, it's just that it would cost £15 per board instead of £8/9

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2016, 08:12:25 pm
content: Don't count me in at that price.I see there is no much interest.

author: Deaniture
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 11:42:11 pm
content: Is anyone still interested in this - I would really love to make these cheaper for people.

author: LukeW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2016, 08:56:48 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 26, 2016, 12:29:51 amThey're utterly shit. Utterly shit for about 900 different reasons, like they were designed 20 years ago by some DIY kid who doesn't know what they're doing.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 12:54:44 pm
content: Basically is the 32 bit arm processor the main diferenceArduino Mega 328 or MEGA 2560 = turtleArm 32 Bit 1769 = rabbitSince 3 printer evolved to delta models with hugh caculations , and nice graphics displays with several real time infoirmation, more processor power means less delays , less misteps, this is why Smoothieboard comes