Fill trolley tire with other than air - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 10:26:04 pm
content: I have some sort of 2 wheels trolley that I use once a year at most. The wheels have air tires, and each time I need to use the trolley I found the tires have no pressure and need maintenance before using the trolley. Very annoying.I'm thinking at replacing the air tires with some solid rubber tires, but instead of buying new wheels, I thought I could fill the current tires with something else other than air.The most cheap and easily available would be to simply fill the tires with bathroom silicone, the one used to seal bathtubs and so. However, the tires are about 20-30cm (8-12'') diameter, and the tire itself is like a donut of 5 cm (2 inch) section, so it wil need a lot of bathroom silicon, and will become pretty heavy.Any idea how to turn bathroom silicone into a foam, so I can fill those tires with silicon foam instead of air, and never have to check the pressure again?

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2019, 10:58:58 pm
content: Well, it should work if you can manage to mix your special silicone monomer with supercritical CO2. So that option is out, but you could try polyurethane foam instead. I don't know that would react to high punctual loads (when you are pushing it over corners), but as long as you stay away from insulating foam and get yourself something that stays somehwat flexible it should be fine.I would just buy some PU foam wheels, trying to get the liquid monomer into the tire won't be easy. Or maybe visit a workshop/car dealer and ask for old emergency tire repair sets.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 12:35:58 am
content: How about put some of that green slime in them that they sell for bicycle tires? I think it coats the inside of the tire and seals small leaks.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:31:17 am
content: An off the wall idea. Water. Filling most but not all of the volume. And then air at atmospheric pressure for the rest.Without pressure driving this leaks should not be an issue. But with the incompressible water filling most of the tire the trolley would be usable. One negative would be weight, but wouldn't be too much worse than other non-pneumatic fillers. The other would be corrosion issues depending on the tire construction. If it has an inner tube corrosion shouldn't be an issue.Haven't tried this myself, but it passes the first round of laugh tests.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 06:14:37 am
content: I doubt fitting solid or foam filled tyres is economic for something you use once a year, unless its critically important that it be immediately ready to roll in an emergency. The DIY suggestions above don't fill me with enthusiasm. Therefore it comes down to reducing the amount of hassle the tyres give you when readying the trolley for use.If you leave foam filled tyres with weight on them in exactly the same position for a year, odds are they'll develop annoying flat spots.If the trolley is stored on blocks so there's no weight on the tires distorting them it should take minimal effort and not a lot of time to air up regular tyres once a year to use it. If you've got a compressor in a fixed location, you can probably do the job with a portable air pig, but even a decent foot pump is sufficient for anything up to the size of a small car tire, provided its beads are still well seated on its rims.If you have problems with a tubeless tire's beads coming off their rims in only a year, either the valve is shite and the cap's got a bad seal or (assuming the tyre isn't rotted to death) you've got a slow leak - either a puncture with the foreign object still in it, a failing plug repair, a badly sealed seam in the wheel or corroded or otherwise compromised rims. Fix it properly, or if its never going to be towed at high speed, remove any foreign objects, and put a tube in it.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 07:46:35 am
content: The cheap and nasty 2 ply tires used on lots of trolleys leak like sieves !Get some liquid tire seal and squirt some into each and roll them around a bit so to completely coat the insides.That should improve them heaps and if you wanna go the whole hog take them to your tire shop and get them Nitrogen filled.Nitrogen being a bigger molecule leaks more slowly through the tire rubber.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 08:28:08 am
content: Nitrogen being a bigger molecule than what? Isn't plain old air 80% nitrogen already?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 08:56:26 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2019, 08:28:08 amhttps://www.tirebuyer.com/education/nitrogen-vs-air

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 08:58:19 am
content: A bit over 78% ... but, yeah, I find the whole "Nitrogen fill" thing a bit hard to swallow, especially for mundane city driven vehicles, let alone wheelbarrows and hand trolleys.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:41:08 am
content: Quote from: tautech on December 01, 2019, 07:46:35 amTechnically true, but we are talking about a 10 pm difference with the molecules being ~150 pm long. I doubt that you will notice this effect. On the other hand, you could use SF6 when you really don't want leaks and don't mind the costs.N2 has only one real advantage over O2: It won't react with the rubber.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 04:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 01, 2019, 05:31:17 amAnd then there’s the Russian garage that fills tires with... well, everything imaginable. Let’s start with the non-RoHS fill:A few somewhat less preposterous fillers:And then there’s their myriad tires made out of non-tire materials:The whole channel is a delight of lawless automotive carnage. 😂

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:08:10 pm
content: Nitrogen filling is a good idea, not because the molecules are larger (as someone else said, atmospheric air is already 80%), but because it contains no oxygen and no water = no rubber deterioration, but this only makes sense for new tires.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:10:36 pm
content: I'm skeptical of the benefits on car tires, at least those of a regularly driven car. My tires have always failed either due to the tread being worn down or cracking in the exterior of the sidewall. No matter what I put inside the tire, they're still sitting in an atmosphere of air.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 05:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2019, 05:10:36 pmYeah, I'm not 100% convinced either. I rather have a feeling that it's simply cheaper for the tire workshops to buy industrial nitrogen than to have a compressor running.Can't hurt, though.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 06:06:08 pm
content: My brother has a Bobcat skid steer front loader that punctures a tire on various construction sites about two to three times a month. That is, it used to happen until he filled the tires with some goo that immediately seals any puncture. He had no punctures ever since (~2 years).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:04:47 pm
content: I think that's the same as that goo I mentioned several posts ago that is sold at bike shops. I haven't tried it myself but lots of cyclists put it in their bike tires.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:24:37 pm
content: Nice videos Tooki. I think they confirm that a water fill might work fine for a low speed tire like a trolley. My biggest concern would be mold and other growth. Perhaps add some bleach to the fill.I have had mixed results with the tire sealing glop. It is worth a try, but I have had only about 50% success rate. And cleanup on the failures is a royal PITA.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:25:45 pm
content: By the way, language check. I am assuming a trolley is what we in the US would call a freight truck. A two wheel device that lets a person pick up and move a stack of boxes easily.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 09:27:42 pm
content: A freight truck? If I heard that term I'd assume someone was talking about a box truck or panel van, ie a large one-piece utility vehicle for hauling things. What you're talking about sounds like a hand truck or dolly.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2019, 10:17:59 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on December 01, 2019, 09:24:37 pmBad idea since bleach will definitely attack the rubber, the only question is how bad the damage would be vs how much it would function as a disinfecting agent. I wouldn't count on the tire not leaking.If you want something that blocks mold in the tire, i would use a nearly saturated NaCl solution. Shouldn't attack the rubber that much, is not toxic and it even lowers the freezing point of the water (usefull when you store your trolley in a shed in the winter).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 01:21:32 am
content: Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2019, 09:27:42 pmSame here. (I’m also American.)

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 02:57:03 am
content: R152a (air duster) is a pretty heavy gas, but I'm not sure if using it to inflate tires would really slow the pressure loss by enough to be worth it. (It will, however, let you use a refrigerant leak detector to find the leaks.)I think the best bet is to just keep a bicycle pump handy and check the pressure every month or every other month.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 04:28:11 am
content: The best bet is to find and seal the leak(s), good pneumatic tires should hold their pressure for years without getting more than a little soft.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 04:35:47 am
content: Fill them with cement (or concrete?) whichever one has no aggregate, could be a fun experiment.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 11:15:00 am
content: +1 re the bike pump, KISS wins every time. But don't buy a crappy one.Re nitrogen and tyres - the O2 will 'leak out' supposedly giving you a nitrogen fill - OK some top up required but after 4 top ups you are better than 99%nitrogen. 👍

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 11:47:51 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on December 02, 2019, 04:35:47 amConcrete = aggregate + cement(Think of it like "cement is a type of glue, and it holds the aggregate together".)

author: Flenser
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2019, 01:14:59 pm
content: I worked at a scrap metal yard for a while.They had a 4-wheeled front end loader that they used to move the scrap around.The tyres had a solid-fill, some sort of plastic. The scrap metal could chop pieces out of the tyres exposing the solid fill.I don't know what the solid fill was and I'm sure that it probably wasn't cheap to fill the big tyres on that front-end load but as your tyres are small, who knows?I have no idea if this is what that scrap yard used but a quick google for "solid fille for tyres scrap yard military vehicle" came up with this link to a business here in Melbourne that does a urethane elastomer fill.http://www.tyrefill.com.au/faq_s.html