Will eevblog be banned in Australia for under 16's as well? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 07:23:35 am
content: Reading the ABC today the federal government's proposed banning of all social media for under 16's and no doubt some "verification" system required for those over 16 to access.The definition of "social media" is very broad and then minister in charge said youtube will be included.Does this mean eevblog will also be banned for under 16's? Or will esafety Karen class it as "low risk" I have seen some risque photos of dismembered circuit boards here, and indecent uses of soldering irons.Of course I post this with a bit of tongue in cheek, while the Australian government really is pushing ahead with this. We all know it is in all likely not going to happen, but if they pushed it, it will be an abysmal failure.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-08/how-the-age-minimum-for-social-media-will-work/104571790Quote

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 07:37:08 am
content: Maybe it would be enough to disable the "mentions" and "thanks" plugins, if that's what they mean by "linking to or interacting with other users".

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 07:51:36 am
content: databases of personal infromation are not safe, you can get a criminal actor stealing some incompetent government bullshit. I wonder how they figured out how to send all those people text messages in our little recent USA event. Apparently massive accurate messaging (race and phone number) for just a nasty little prank.I feel like the elites never care about this, because they have piles of money, armies of lawyers and 'friends' (strings to pull) that will vouch for them to get them off the hook for like identity/personal information-related scams and crimes that will bury a regular citizen without special powers. Hell, witness testimony basically means nothing for them, they don't even knowledge that personal information and IDs can possibly be harmful.Its always someone who lives on the fucking moon that comes up with these kinda things. "I will have my servants deal with those kinds of problems"

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2024, 12:26:42 pm
content: Is that the same ABC News as the American Broadcasting Company? I considered it could the the Australian Broadcasting Company, but then saw this:QuoteThat would fit reporting from the deranged American company.In a Vietnam era (1969) the SCOTUS ruled that students don't “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.” Although schools may require surrender of cell phones and the like so as not to disrupt classes, I doubt an age-related banning from social media would pass our constitutional test. According to Google AI, Australia doesn't have the exact equivalent right, but its courts have ruled that freedom of expression is incorporated in other aspects of its constitution.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:08:32 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 10, 2024, 07:23:35 amI highly doubt it. Can you imagine the impact it would have on all those forums out there. What about vendor support forums?In my opinion EEVblog forum doesn't meet the definition of point #1. It has to tick all those boxes, not just one or more of them. The primary purpose of this forum is to exchange technical information, data, assist learning, etc...While some people use it as a social "hangout", it's not the sole or primary purpose. I think LinkedIn is more "social" than here.EEVblog as a company, is a professional engineering organisation. The forum is just the side salad.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 07:03:01 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 14, 2024, 03:08:32 am1) I don't think your distinction between social and technical media will fly. The interactions and reactions by individuals on this forum are social. "Be excellent to each other."2) In the US, Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996 protects social media companies from legal liability for most user content. It might be a serious mistake if EEVBlog argued it was not social media and won as it would lose that protection.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:16:40 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 10, 2024, 12:26:42 pmNo it is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation---nothing to do with the US company.As to the quoted bit, they just report the news--they don't make it up!

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:19:11 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 14, 2024, 08:16:40 am

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 04:45:52 pm
content: It's interesting to me that this discussion started out talking about the proposed Australian ban on children under 16 using social media but then immediately pivoted to the topic of the dis-honesty of some news networks. Networks which are legally WELL protected in most western countries. It seems to me that all any social media company really needs to do in order to completely insulate itself from any and all restrictions and liabilities, is to simply call themselves "a news-company". Then they will have all of the protections available to the New York Times, CNN and all of the rest of the lying news organizations.This problem is a lot bigger than just sub 16 years olds using social media and I'd like to see some kind of restrictions placed on all "harmful content", and in particular "dishonest reporting", inallmediaregardless of the age market that it's intended for. Harmful content obviously to include anything that would make it addictive.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:01:57 pm
content: News organization are protected in the US, but that protection is less than Section 230 provides. They can be sued for slander and have lost:https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/washington-post-settles-lawsuit-with-family-of-kentucky-teenager/2020/07/24/ae42144c-cdbd-11ea-b0e3-d55bda07d66a_story.htmlhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/media/washington-post-sandmann-settlement-lawsuit/index.htmlThose are just the top two hits Google gave me. EEVBlog is better protected as a social medium in the US.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:49:57 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on November 14, 2024, 04:45:52 pmI suppose the irony about your observation though is that something not mentioned here is the same Australian government seeking to "ban" all under 16's from "social media" also has just passed laws through parliament (but hopefully unlikely to pass the senate) whereby "misinformation" whatever that is, will be banned with penalties for those who said the whatever with the government created committee to be the determinator of truth, also the politicians have exempted themselves from said laws.When both left wing and right wing media outlets totally pan the same laws, you can pretty much guess they are stupid laws.Left wing media outlet panning the lawshttps://www.crikey.com.au/2024/09/19/anthony-albanese-misinformation-disinformation-legislation/Right wing media outlet panning the same laws.https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/politics/attack-on-our-freedoms-governments-revised-online-misinformation-bill-slammed-as-chilling-assault-on-free-speech/news-story/03f202bf41f4255fd0f7c4b4c05682feSo while forums operating in Australia may potentially have to introduce an identity mechanism so only >16 year olds are able to use it, these same forums also may have to potentially also trawl their forums to combat what think a capital city based committee will think is "misinformation".It will be like the tighter they hold their grip, the more star systems will slip through their fingers.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:10:45 pm
content: Oh, my, don't tell me Australians are actually considering having a Minister of Truth with police powers? You are further away than just 16 hours.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 14, 2024, 08:16:40 amHow do those 2 statements go together?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:47:11 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 14, 2024, 07:03:01 amI disagree.You need to consider the wording of the legislation. "Sole" or "Primary purpose" is very important here. EEVblog is much more than just this forum. No matter how social or anti-social this forum is, it still doesn't meet that definition. If it would, that would mean the likes of Lawrence Systems' forum would be considered social media (which of course it isn't).I don't even think that the Australian telecommunications forum, "Whirlpool", which is just a forum, would even meet the definition. I don't think there would be a single court in Australia that would agree that it was.Secondly, application of US law would rely on the definitions under that law, not what another country considers to be "social media". Besides, I don't think Dave is worried about US law. EEVblog is governed by Australian law, first and foremost.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:05:36 pm
content: Hey, if EEVBlog wants to be a publisher of technical information, that is fine with me. Dave's lawyers may disagree. That is, if you can hide under the social media label do it, even if it offends your ego.The US is a big place with lots of crazy people and contingency lawyers. Aren't your servers here, or did you move them?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:35:05 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 14, 2024, 09:47:11 pmI suspect a high percentage of this forum's users are barely aware of anything EEVblog consists of besides this forum. I see no mention of the types of social interaction which this legislation covers, whether they be hobbies, technical, or the types of thing more typical of mainstream social media sites. It appears to be a blanket thing.QuoteAs far as I know, from getting some answers there over the years, the sole and primary purpose of Whirlpool is to be a social forum, where people post problems and discuss solutions. I've mostly been there for technical issues, but it seems to host a pretty wide range of interactions.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 14, 2024, 03:08:32 amWell, it says "social interaction", not "socializing". So I guess you can go to court and argue that information exchange and learning assistance aren't social interactions. Someone else will say that it is. Lawyers will win either wayExperience teaches that expecting politicians not to be stupid may be placing an unrealistic demand on them...

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on November 14, 2024, 10:35:05 pmUser awareness doesn't factor into the argument.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:12:43 pm
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 10, 2024, 07:23:35 amOver my dead body.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:16:40 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 14, 2024, 09:47:11 pmAlso under US law for the server itself. e.g. DMCA

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:23:51 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 14, 2024, 09:10:45 pmWe already do (seriously), she is known as eKaren here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Inman_GrantElon Musk famously told her to get stuffed when asked to remove a video from X, he beat eKaren in court. This case was front page news in Australia.https://www.rebelnews.com/australia_s_e-karen_plays_victim_following_failed_legal_action

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:29:58 pm
content: I feel for you. Biden floated the idea and was soundly beaten down.It's hard to imagine a free people living under that sword.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:39:47 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 14, 2024, 11:29:58 pmFew countries have something solid to cling onto, like the US first amendment, when oppression tries to strike. That makes most countries quite vulnerable. In the UK we have something called a D notice, which not only makes it illegal to publish information the government chooses to suppress, but makes it illegal to even mention that there is something going on that can't be talked about. So, it goes way beyond withholding sensitive information that might be a risk to national security. It gets used in idiotic ways, like Margaret Thatcher suppressing a book in the UK that was published everywhere else for "national security" reasons.The Biden proposal was highly unlikely to get very far. It just made him look really bad. The proposal was pretty honest, though, including a category that was basically "its true, but inconvenient for the government".

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 12:14:43 am
content: Quote from: coppice on November 14, 2024, 09:29:43 pmReal TV networks only have a couple of hours between something happening & reporting it, so it is hard to confer with flinty eyed agents of the "Left".When I worked for TVW7 in Perth, they got the news right many more times than the Murdoch owned "Sunday Times", which had a whole week to get it right.Things like Sky "News" Australia don't have the same time constraints, so produce "opinion pieces", which reflect the ideas of their management.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 12:41:49 am
content: Quoterebranded as dsma a few years back,and not legally binding

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 01:18:32 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 14, 2024, 09:10:45 pmThere is no "Minister of Truth", You can be required to remove lies, but you won't be arrested.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:21:17 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 15, 2024, 01:18:32 amIf you refuse to remove the lies, you get a court summons or fine.If you refuse to pay the fine or the court summons, eventually men with guns come to your door and arrest you.So same thing, just takes more steps.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:31:13 am
content: Maybe Musk can do Australians a favor and send the ISS to eKaren when it de-orbits.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 05:55:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2024, 03:21:17 amThere aren't any men in guns left. NSW Police is thousands of officers short of authorised strength. Some stations are closing because they can't fill shifts, some others are running at 50% capacity. I get the feeling "Cost benefit analysis" will be applied to a lot of jobs.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 07:13:30 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 15, 2024, 05:55:01 amSo you are saying I can just stop paying my taxes because there is no one left to arrest me?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 07:56:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2024, 07:13:30 amWhile you're at it, join the sov. cit. movement and start believing the earth is flat.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:10:20 am
content: Are they so dumb they don't realise that kids are smart enough to find workarounds for this BS?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:13:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:23:51 pmQuoteQuoteYou guys need to build a border wall, or an ocean, or something to keep those people out

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:16:42 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 15, 2024, 08:10:20 amDon't worry, they will spend some of your money to hire men in black suits to track down a few of those kids and take them away from their parents for "negligence".Relevant classic:https://xkcd.com/538/And don't forget that you are already forbidden from reading information useful to terrorists, so I could post in this thread how to synthesize TNT and getyouswatted.It's that simple

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:33:27 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 15, 2024, 08:10:20 amIt's the same bullshit that's been happening since the internet was a thing. I remember in high school, we had a SOCKS proxy which acted as an internet gateway to library computers, of course there was some basic filtering, and of course the kids got around it.It's like Australia's non-compulsory DNS blocking of bad websites. Firstly, the ISPs can simply ignore the direction, and secondly, users can get around it with ease.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:56:11 am
content: FYI, breaking news today, it looks like the infamous Misinformation/Disinformation bill will NOT pass parliment after several independent senators have said they'll vote against it.This is potentially good news for ditching the ridiculous social media ban.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 08:58:39 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 15, 2024, 08:10:20 amThey are so stupid that they think that just because they can ban means that it's technicially possible.Just when our PM at the time infamously said that the laws of mathetatics don't apply in Australiahttps://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathematics-dont-apply-here-says-australian-pm/

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:01:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2024, 08:56:11 amHappy days! Good old Pauline!

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 09:02:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 15, 2024, 08:58:39 amThis is the same fuckwit who said replacing the old, corroding, decaying copper network with fibre optics wouldn't be worth it. They have now spent more money maintaining said shit network than it would have been to roll out glass to most homes. Only now are they playing catch-up. This same bloke used to work in the telco industry as well. A classic case of "What would the engineers know? I know better."

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 10:25:43 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 15, 2024, 09:01:17 amIt was Lambie and Payman that pushed it over the line today. Payman was close to getting forced out of the sentate, so I suspect she went for the populist option to save her bacon, and it seems to have worked. A lot of people on X are saying they don't like her, but are all saying a genuine thanks for this one.https://x.com/SenatorPayman/status/1857284271175774661

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 10:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 15, 2024, 09:02:52 amThey just HAD to go for a different solution than the other party, even if it was half arsedFor those who don't know, our National Broadband Network was the #1 issue at our federal election at the time, and the public voted for the half-arsed solution

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 11:37:51 am
content: Quotesounds similar to a certain uk pm but that was more to fudge the books ready for privatisation

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 12:01:02 pm
content: So my take on the NBN was it was a shit idea for the government to get involved again in the communications market after it had deregulated it and sold it all off.The people with the worst internet connections got the stick treatment, while those with the best, got an even better one.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 06:39:20 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 10, 2024, 12:26:42 pmHow much protection does the constitution really provide? It might stop blatant abuse and laws which limit free speech, but it didn't stop the Biden regime* putting pressure on big tech to censor things which they didn't like.To those who supported it, or think I'm specifically attaching the Democrats. I wouldn't put it past the other side from doing the same thing. The same mechanism can be used to "clamp down on LGBT+ propaganda, harmful to children", "promote Christian values etc."

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 06:44:03 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 15, 2024, 06:39:20 pmIts like election tampering. Both sides do it, but both sides attack the other for doing it. So, it does tend to keep things in check, even if they can stray pretty far in the short term.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 11:30:24 pm
content: As per above, our government gravitates towards authoritarianism, but authoritarians aren't homogeneous. Leveraging that fact is probably one of the best ways for the common folk to retain some power over the political process.I have to wonder how much of Fatima Payton's opinion on the matter is influenced by the fact that many of the far left found themselves on the wrong side of establishment leftists in regards to the Israel/Palestine conflict.If this had been pushed through during covid I worry that Labor and Liberals alike would have been in agreement, and together they vastly outnumber independents and minor parties that would have voted against on principle.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2024, 09:56:19 pm
content: Quote from: John B on November 15, 2024, 11:30:24 pmOne has only to "read the room" to know what side is safest to be on. Especialy given the recent populist wins in various countries. Especially so when probably a majority of the country wants you physically removed from parliment and has called for your resignation.Although technically they don't have the votes to get it passed, it only requires ONE senator to simply abstain from the vote and it will pass, it's that close. This ain't over yet.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2024, 09:28:03 pm
content: Well they introduced their laws, and they gave anyone 24 hours to lodge a submission about them.Looks like the government minister shall have the power to say what and what not is to be banned. Funnily enough youtube has already been ruled out.Quote

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2024, 09:55:45 pm
content: And in english?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2024, 11:01:27 pm
content: When China invades, you'll hardly notice the change.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on November 21, 2024, 09:55:45 pmIt is in the Kings English.Essentially this.QuoteSo that pretty much means any "service" where people can stop and chat via keyboard, including SMS. By reading it (b) also allows the minister to add without any oversight any other website as it can declare something in the "legislative rules" which is weasel words* for everything else. The minister may have to consult with esafety karen, but esafety karen by her actions seems to have a hard on for full on censorship. Some dickhead here did a pretty shit attempt at stabbing a religious minister in a place of worship. The religious minister survived pretty unscathed and all the video showed was a blurry scuffle. No blood or anything, yet esafety karen tried to ban that video from all Australian's.What these rules will do is just drive younger teenagers to places like 4chan and darker places of the internetz that the government can not touch as they have no presence in Australia.*another example of "weasel words" is state drink driving laws. In one state it says such and such about being in control of a car, bike, scooter, horse, camel, emu, etc on public roads, then it pulls in the term "or elsewhere", which is defined as everywhere else. Which means if you were sitting in your car in the garage listening to the radio, drinking your third beer and you have a blood alcohol level of over 0.05 (or zero if you were sitting in a truck listening to the radio), you can be done for drink driving.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 12:12:45 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pmWhich goes to show they are willing to use these power for purely political purposes.Context for those who don't know, this was the biggest story in the country. Even the bishop who got stabbed wanted the footage to remain up.All the social media companeis compied and removed the video, except X, Elon told eKaren to go pleasure herself. eKaren sued X and LOST.They just got their arses kicked on the Misinformation bill which will not go through, now they are trying to push this U16 social media ban through with 24hours notice.IMO there has to be somebody above our prime minister pushing him to do this, no politican is this stupid and willing through throw away their career for this.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 12:23:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2024, 12:12:45 amAre you sure, or is that misinformation? Was this a bill to formalise the government's right to misinform, or one to stop others telling the truth by defining misinformation as anything said that's against the government's interests?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 12:34:58 am
content: Quote from: coppice on November 22, 2024, 12:23:35 amBoth.All the major independ senators are now against the bill so it doesn't have the numbers. But they might still stupidly try take it to a vote anyway.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 01:26:59 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 21, 2024, 11:01:27 pmThe last time China successfully invaded anywhere was Tibet in 1951.Their Invasion of Vietnam in 1979 led to a bloody nose for the PLA.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 08:19:56 am
content: Well eevblog did not make the initial ban list. Funnily enough neither did facebook but for some reason twitter did.Quote

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 10:02:26 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 22, 2024, 01:26:59 am1) That was hyperbole.2) Remember the evacuation of Saigon? All Vietnam today is communist and a satellite of China. Do you really think all of that stuff marked "made in Vietnam" is really made in Vietnam and is not simply relabeled to avoid the stigma of made in China?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 10:29:24 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 22, 2024, 08:19:56 amTwitter/X is the only social media platform that matters for political discourse. It is where all the politicans post, it is where all news is made and debated and shared. Of course they want it entirely regulated and every single person identified.No government can survive the free speech that Elon has brought, they have to either regulate it, or kill it.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 10:32:18 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 22, 2024, 08:19:56 amI am amazed that such a great country with so similar a heritage as the US has gone that direction. Some people assume our Bill of Rights, which along with the post Civil War 14th amendment ("Equal Protection") are often cited in cases involving individual liberties, was a given during our Constitutional Convention. It was not. Opinions and sides differed strongly. One side contended the Bill of Rights was simply duplicative of what the new Constitution already said. Jefferson supported the Bill of Rights, and it was eventually passed. If you are interested, those rights did not immediately apply to all states (See: Incorporation here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights). We still struggle with that "quirk."I was ignorant about the Australian Constitution and searched Google last week to ask whether it included freedom of speech and expression like our 1st Amendment ensures. Google responded that it did not and added that those freedoms were considered to be covered in other sections. That immediately reminded me of the argument against our Bill of Rights. Thank goodness Jefferson and his allies prevailed. Australia is not alone, and Canada has similar issues. I hope both are able to get it resolved. As for England, we are not governed by it anymore.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 12:32:20 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2024, 10:29:24 amCould just be the trojan horse to go after Twitter. "Won't someone think of the children!!" is an often used argument to create some seemingly innocent laws. Terrorists is another common one. We even just saw a group of complete morons dress up in black and chant "white power" then at least in Queensland new laws were created giving the government minister the ability to outlaw any group or emblem they see fit.I would not have thought teenagers would be using twitter that much.Quote from: jpanhalt on November 22, 2024, 10:32:18 amI do not think deep down there are that many similarities between Australia and the USA these days.Australia is far more socialist then the USA. Australian culture has a disdain for successful wealthy people, even if they are entirely self made and started with little. While you will see the USA flag everywhere in the USA, you will struggle to see an Australian Flag in Australia.The term "The lucky country" is probably most valid right now. It is an old saying from a long time ago to describe Australia. It is lucky in that it has incredible easily exploitable wealth in the form of minerals and natural resources that the country can afford to be run by second rate people and the people prosper by achieving so little.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 01:12:53 pm
content: QuoteWALOB

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 02:09:23 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 22, 2024, 10:02:26 amIn 1979 there was a generation of experienced fighters in Vietnam, and there wasn't in China. It feels like that had a lot to do with the outcome. A war now would tend to be between two parties who haven't known real fighting for a generation or two. There are a lot of Chinese assembly factories in the north of Vietnam now, so I guess the Chinese invasion finally worked out.The commonest thing in Vietnam is "assembled in Vietnam from imported components", often emblazened on a product's packaging. Final assembly is where most of the labour goes these days, and Vietnam has a lot of low cost but well educated people. The only reason Vietnam has not become a really massive assembly shop is its government tends to keep changing direction, and the foreign investors get screwed and back off. People like Samsung and Epson are probably big enough to kick ass if the Vietnamese government tries to screw them, so they seem to have really entrenched themselves there. I used to know a few smaller people who just had to cut their losses and move on.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 11:33:46 pm
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 21, 2024, 11:21:37 pmI get what you are saying, and it probably should be written another way, but sometimes it is useful. eg you get drunk in a bar, walk out and smash your car into 10 other cars in a parking lot. Its not a "public road" but you should still face the consequences of drunk driving.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2024, 11:58:51 pm
content: Australia seems quite comparable in the political landscape to Canada, especially with the commonwealth association. The fact is Australia doesn't have freedom of speech. There's worryingly few politicians that actually respect the idea when it starts to become inconvenient to their party aspirations.The first amendment in the US has been shown to be a piper tiger if it isn't enforced, eg the state is forbidden from using third parties to violate those rights, like 3 letter agencies pressuring social media companies to censor. But nonetheless there still is an additional roadblock to full on censorship.I listened to the statement of a minister or senator that flipped his vote on the misinformation bill (to opposing it). What disappointed me is that he only opposed the bill on procedure, not on premise. Ie the bill was "flawed" in execution rather than rejecting the notion that it is or should be the governments purview to control public discussion. Keep in mind this is all in response to the public opposition to government policies in regards to covid, and a recent failed referendum.On the social media ban, I accept there's going to be downsides to young teenagers having access to social media, but what is worse is normalising the idea that people need permission or authorisation to participate in free communication.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 12:10:33 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 22, 2024, 11:33:46 pmThose places are classed as public areas though.Your garage is not as the general public does not have access to it.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 04:15:23 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 22, 2024, 12:32:20 pmWe don't much like wealthy people because wealth can so often be built on deceit & unethical behaviour.So often rich people feted by the media "cut & run" when their business falls on bad times, taken as much as they can, including in some cases superannuation entitlements.Remember Chris Skase?The silly bugger, to avoid coming back to Australia to face court, pretended to have Emphysema, & whilst doing so, distracted attention from the real, deadly illness he had.The Mineral companies would not agree about how "easily exploitable" the minerals & natural resources are.As to flag waving, No, we aren't like the Americans or the Brits either---the flag is a symbol, nothing else.If I want to see Australia, I can just go outside, I don't need a piece of cloth!The USA, in many ways is still a revolutionary country.Following the Revolution, they were worried, like many such countries about "counterrevolutionaries", hence all the emphasis upon the flag, Constitution, etc, which has become tradition.Australia evolved from colonies & the Brits, having learnt their lesson, fairly gracefully yielded to Australians' wish for Nationhood.So it went that our govt is based mostly on the evolved form of the Westminster System of the late 1890s, rather than the much more archaic one of 100 plus years earlier.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 05:08:00 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 22, 2024, 10:02:26 amYes, it was the communist State of Vietnam which China attempted to invade.A country can be communist & not a "satellite of China".(The fantasy of "monolithic communism" was BS in the 1950s & still is.)Most people would more readily buy "made in China", rather than "made in Vietnam", as the latter is much more of an unknown quantity for manufactured goods.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 05:12:11 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 22, 2024, 10:29:24 amI can vote my government in or out.When did I get a vote on Elon?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 10:10:29 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 23, 2024, 05:12:11 amYou got a vote on theplatformwhen you decided to use it or not.Elon set up an open and accountable free speech platform where everyone is equal.

author: Tation
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 11:30:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2024, 10:10:29 amEven if a majority of citizens in a country do not use X, does not remove X in such country. Plain BS.Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2024, 10:10:29 amBeen on X for just 2 months. Followed just two local, academic, accounts, but received suggested content from Musk & Trump. Everyone equal? Utter BS.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 12:20:05 pm
content: I see that Dave has been radicalizedYou guys are just envious that you can't afford to buy a website which tells people whom to vote for.The only thing I don't understand - if you are so poor, why would you care about democracy at all?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 02:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2024, 10:10:29 amIn fairness, I couldn't really comment on "X" without sampling it, so I joined up.I'm sorry to say that I was underwhelmed.There was no "political discourse" to speak of, all I found was a bunch of Trump supporters going "nyah, nyah, nyah ,nyah!" at supporters of the other side, who responded in kind.I found no source of great truths there, in fact, it was pretty much like the crazier threads on Facebook, & even the comments on "Microsoft Start" news, although without the really weird "Community Guidelines" of the latter.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 02:38:36 pm
content: the only decent use of twatter/x ive found is to call out companys for crap service,they tend to respond quicker than if you go through the email/customer services route.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 08:50:16 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 23, 2024, 05:08:00 amIts interesting how that goes. Lots of Epson printers say something like "Assembled in Vietnam from components made in Shenzhen" on the box.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 09:52:23 pm
content: QuoteThe only difference is which side is "this" and which is the "other".This is not a twitter "bug".It's a planet earth feature.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 10:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 23, 2024, 02:24:30 pmYou can't just join and then suddenly be inundated with magical truths.You have to follow the correct people or hashtags etc.As I mentioned, almost every politican is on there, so for example I'm really concerned with what's happening with this under 16's ban and the misinformation bill recently, so if you follow all the key politicans involved in this you see all the Community Notes if they say bullshit, and you'll see the general zeitgeist of the people in the responses as the politicans spew their latest opinion.And some of the best independent political commentators are on X, and only on X.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 10:48:12 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on November 23, 2024, 09:52:23 pmIndeed, but the wondrous "butterflies & unicorns" features so touted by enthusiasts were nowhere to be found.In theory, I could go to an AFL game between Collingwood & Fremantle, sit amongst a bunch of rabid Collingwood fans, loudly & vociferously support the "Dockers" & not "get my head pushed in", but discretion being the better part of valour, I probably wouldn't."X" strikes me as being much the same, though with much less threat to "life & limb".Saying even mildly nasty things about Elon tends to elicit the same reaction from his followers.Just like with the "footy" game, upsetting the majority of attendees is likely to lead to you being "jumped on".

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2024, 11:55:31 pm
content: I wonder how they will go with workplace applications like Microsoft Teams, Slack etc... considering you can be 14 years old and be legally employed.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2024, 12:21:41 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 23, 2024, 11:55:31 pmDuring covid, these were extensively used by schools, both teachers and students. They're all going to be monitored like crazy by employers and government alike, so I think all the official voyeurs are already satisfied

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:01:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 23, 2024, 11:55:31 pmMy 13yo uses Teams to chat to his friends while playing minecraft, he says everyone uses it, standard issue on their school laptops.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 03:05:06 am
content: UPDATE on the Misinformation bill. It's been officially revoked today!Huge pressure now on the U16 ban as they are getting hammered from every direction.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 08:40:01 am
content: Good for Australians.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 10:29:29 pm
content: "No politics"?---- You could have fooled me!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 10:54:41 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on November 25, 2024, 10:29:29 pmThis is directly relevant to this forum as a potential "social media" site, and also to Youtube and other video platforms that could be banned in Australia for under 16's.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 08:18:25 pm
content: Well the social media ban laws got passed.All users of declared sites (which is potentially any internet site) will require verification of age to use them starting sometime next year.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 09:10:10 pm
content: Quote from: .RC. on November 28, 2024, 08:18:25 pmAustralia just went fall retard. You never go full retard.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 10:12:37 pm
content: You cannot fix social problems using technical measures, not on the intertubes.Social media minimum age limit is a good idea, because there is research that indicates its effects on humans and especially kids is negative.However,policingthat should not be up to the web sites, but to families and parents. Talk to your kids and set the rules! If you leave parenting to schools and TV and social media, you're giving your children a really bad bum start in life.I'm even more convinced than before that this is a symptom of humans becoming aneusocial species: parenting is "outsourced" to the communal "nest", with basically any and all means allowed to secure that "nest", with everything outside that nest or against the attempts to secure that nest immediately labeled Offensive and Evil and to be Rejected.I'm not a Luddite, either. I definitely believe that proper use of Internet can really benefit all levels of education. Yet, I believe that having phones in the classroom is more negative than positive. I've found for myself, and seen in others, that physically writing with your hands aids learning in some/many –– not all, but sufficiently often to make it an important part of early education. Even here in Nordic countries, university students are starting to have difficulty reading and integrating long texts, being inundated with short quick text snippets, being unable to focus for long enough.This isobviousand easily verified based on current research. Why is it so damn hard to understand? (I know: easy solutions thatlook likethey might work are preferred over the hard solutions known to work, because short-sighted humans.)

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 10:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 28, 2024, 10:12:37 pmIts not just on the intertubes. Technical measures to solve social problems is a game of wack-a-mole, that people seldom have the good sense to back out from, unless a super sized mallet wacks them. They just keep adding arms and mallets, until it looks to an outsider like something very oppressive, but utterly ineffective.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2024, 10:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 28, 2024, 09:10:10 pmI assume, like the UK parliament, your politicians are dominated by people who have never provided a product or service in real life, and just followed the school, to university, to parasite, to elected parasite pipeline. This is a recipe for incompetent governance.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 12:36:37 am
content: Quote from: coppice on November 28, 2024, 10:19:04 pmThis happened in Finland to the Christian Democrat long-term representative and once-chairwomanPäivi Räsänen, who was very vocal in restricting free speech and introducing hate speech related legislation. She's now been charged for hate speech for the fourth time times I believe, all for quoting the Bible publicly. I'm not sure she learned her lesson, though; I do believe she still claims the law is good,just applied inappropriately(i.e."you're doing what I helped legislate, not what I intended you to do, so you're doing it wrong!").So, I kinda-sorta disagree with the "unless" part: most humans don't often learn even from their own mistakes, when it comes to politics. Ideology just bulldozes over logic and rationality, it seems.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 07:23:09 am
content: LOL.It doesn't matter what adjective you put in front, a democrat will always be a democratThose people only talk about "rule of the masses" because they are so full of it to think that the masses agree with them and that they alone know what the masses want. There isn't much you can do to help them. Come to think of it, such ideology is inherently a magnet for narcissists, and if narcissists were capable of self reflection, they wouldn't be narcissists in the first place. So there you go.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 11:37:25 am
content: Quote from: magic on November 29, 2024, 07:23:09 amI think you mean a democrat will never be a democrat. Their names are chosen not to illuminate, but to obscure. Doubly so when the name starts with "Democratic", like "Democratic Republic of Human Oppression and Despair".

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 10:33:32 pm
content: "YouGov survey found that 77% of Australians back the under-16 social media ban, a significant increase from the 61% support found in an August poll prior to the government's official announcement. Only 23% oppose the measure."https://au.yougov.com/politics/articles/51000-support-for-under-16-social-media-ban-soars-to-77-among-australiansI get the policy is dumb, but, if people are demanding one, maybe they are just trying to appease the masses.Quote from: .RC. on November 28, 2024, 08:18:25 pmThey will require verification but it sounded like no specific implementation was written in. So it could be a popup or it could be something much more strict, who knows.Quote from: magic on November 29, 2024, 07:23:09 amTry staying on topic. Or at least bothering to read the post that you quoted."According to the prosecutor, Räsänen claims that immorality and child abuse are characteristics related to homosexuality."What do you think is the main problem here, religion or political affiliation?

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 10:40:47 pm
content: Quoteof the 1515 asked , out of a population of about 21 million aged 18+

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 11:11:54 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on November 29, 2024, 10:40:47 pmYes... thats how sampled polls work, margin of error was 3%. It could still be off, but its clearly an opinion of a very large percentage of the population.The under 18 view is a different argument, if you want to get into that. See the bit from Nominal Animal above about phones in the classroom. We banned phones in classes here, and I'm sure many kids would be against it, but why does that matter?

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 11:49:48 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 29, 2024, 10:33:32 pmOr maybe they sold it to the masses as the solution to the problem they're seeing, because they are well aware that the actually known working solutions would be harder to swallow (like increasingparentalresponsibility of what kids do on the net) and therefore negatively affect the politicians' popularity.There are three ways to be a populist: one is to lie, and say whatever people want to hear; another is to concentrate on fixing the things people are worried about; the third, the most common way, is to be delusional and believe you're doing the second while actually doing the first.Quote from: thm_w on November 29, 2024, 10:33:32 pmYou didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway: neither; it's the legislation attempting to control morality and feelings.(Also note that the prosecutor never claimed that Räsänen was factually wrong; only that the statement was hateful and against a protected minority, and thus punishable. Even the relation betweenchild abuse and homosexuality is stated to exist in peer-reviewed research. Specifically,"results suggest that causal relationships driving the association between sexual orientation and childhood abuse may be bidirectional, may differ by type of abuse, and may differ by sex". Immorality was referenced in context of Christian Lutheranism, or the bible.)We already had quite strict defamation laws (slander, libel) here in Finland before. These new laws simply made it easier for certain politically motivated people within the government to attack their ideological rivals (orenemies, as they seem to view them). The politicians wanting those laws thought they would protect their religion and religious utterances from attacks; but as their opponents gained power (or rather, the government offices where they could prosecute others), the opposite happened.At a time when the police doesn't have enough resources to investigatenon-commercial burglaries, resources have been dedicated for police to comb social media for hateful speech and investigating those. This is wrong, and is a pure waste of resources, leading only to negative consequences (specifically, polarization of the society, loss of societal cohesion).For Australia, the legislation will lead to lots of resources spent by website operators, that will have zero effect on under 16's social media use. Wasted resources, annoying ordinary users, just like EU GDPR and web cookies: that does nothing to curb theactualdata collection, and just annoys the hell out of everyone. Alphabet and Facebook and others have and sell full profiles on every web user, even though they had never consented nor registered to their services, and those profiles will be used to try and sell you stuff you're not interested in. In the end, government officials will use these laws to go after websites they don't like.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2024, 11:53:07 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 29, 2024, 10:33:32 pmThese things rarely show the actual questions which were asked in the survey. Write the questions in the right way, and you can achieve any result you want. Surveyors are so used to rigging the result they seem confused when you task them with ACTUALLY figuring out what public wants.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 12:05:40 am
content: Quote from: coppice on November 29, 2024, 11:53:07 pmNo, you can see some of their previous questions here, they are very clearly laid out with no visible bias I can see:https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/071024QLDStatePollingMethodologyStatement.pdfThe question was probably something like "Do you support or oppose the proposed under-16 social media ban".

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 12:32:23 am
content: Quote from: coppice on November 29, 2024, 11:53:07 pmFunny thing is, you cannot do that by asking the public what it wants.Let me explain.I've learned that if you asked people what they'd like to change, their wishes are utopistic and unrealistic. So, now I like to askhowthey'd change things, what would they themselvesdo, if they were the Emperor for one day.Yes, some will still answer with utopistic unrealistic things like"I'dforcepeace everywhere on Earth" and similar. (I'd retort by asking exactly how they'd do that, repeating, until I get some concrete ideas.)However, if you preface the question by getting them into a local/my-own-life mindset –– thinking about themselves, their family, their local community, their work and workflow ––, they will often point out the most annoying consequences of the actual main problems they have.Note: they still won't immediately tell you what the actual underlying problem is –– not many people even realize the things they are fighting are not the real problems, but just the consequences of not dealing correctly with the actual underlying problem ––, but you'll get much closer this way. If the situation is complex (or in the workplace, involves several different tools), you often have to backtrack several steps to find where the original error was made, and where the fixes are the most effective.Even in the matter at hand, theactualproblem is not that kids spend time on socal media. It is that kids spending time in social media are –– statistically speaking –– negatively affected in many areas of life, from reduced ability to concentrate to lack of self control and increased violent outbursts.Adding technical controls to social media to act on behalf of parenting is a poor fix for that. It is funny how few people realize this.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 10:08:05 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on November 29, 2024, 10:33:32 pmPlease bother reading the post you quoted. Of course it's political affiliation, not religion.A Christian democrat thinks that everybody is Christian even if we don't realize it yet, and has no answer but censorship to those who disagree.An LGBQWERTY democrat thinks that everybody is LGBQWERTY even if we don't realize it yet, and has no answer but censorship to those who disagree.A democrat will always be a democrat, that's what I said, that's what I meant, that's what it is.A democrat will always be a megalomaniac narcissist.A democrat will always assume everybody is like him.A democrat will always be confused by those who aren't.A democrat will always see enemies of democracy everywhere.A democrat will always be paranoid, sad and miserable.It doesn't matter if it's a Democratic Republic of Oppression and Despair or a Democratic Republic of Freedom and Happiness.Recent events show beyond all doubt: democracy is the same everywhere.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 01:04:51 pm
content: Quote from: magic on November 30, 2024, 10:08:05 amI think you're confusing democrat with authoritarian. It's true that some democratic parties have a problem with authoritarianism, but it's not solely a democrat issue.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 03:06:21 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on November 30, 2024, 01:04:51 pmI think he's confusing a democrat with someone affiliated with a party that put democrat in their name to throw people off the scent.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2024, 05:23:04 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on November 30, 2024, 03:06:21 pmIt's quite common for parties to have names antithetical to their actions.Labour: when everything they're doing is harming the working class.Conservative: when they've not conserved anything.Same for many countries.Democratic People's Republic of KoreaUnited StatesDemocratic Republic of Congo.I could go on.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 10:00:20 am
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 30, 2024, 12:32:23 amI have noticed this a fair bit when it comes to the environment.Heavily urban living person says. "We must save the environment. We need to shut down <insert some industry in a rural area that the destruction of will not affect them on any way here>.Meanwhile they go living their life the same as always as what they demand does not affect them and they refuse to do anything that will negatively affect their way of life.. I am sure there is a word for that sort of person, other then the ones combining four letter words that I am thinking of.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 05:55:08 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 30, 2024, 12:32:23 amDuh. Anyone with a brain should have figured that out in childhood. That's why you need effective pollsters. The good ones can work out patterns of questions that can skirt around the real issue being analysed, and flush out a fairly real view of the person being questioned. Most often then use the same skills to get the answer the people paying want to hear.Have you ever looked in one of these left wing forums, where someone asks what people's most left wing view might be. A large number of the responses are basically "I should have everything I want and not have to work for it". They seem oblivious to the fact they have equated being left wing with being a slave owner, since the stuff won't magically appear, even in a society with high levels of automation.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 07:52:20 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 01, 2024, 05:55:08 pmNo; anyone withsocial skillsfigure that out in childhood. Just because I lack some social skills doesn't make me brainless.But yes. And indeed polling is complicated; it's easy to get the answers you expected/wanted, and difficult to find out the actual truths.Quote from: coppice on December 01, 2024, 05:55:08 pmYes, I have, and have recognized that.Even more common is confusingdislikeandbad experienceswithfearandphobias. That causes discussions to devolve into dissing others as if they were defective, instead of discussing the actual matter –– on all sides of the political spectrum.Most humans have difficulties in seeing things from others' perspectives. This includes pollsters. That leads to the kind of situation I mentioned with Räsänen, pushing legislation in the hopes of protecting themselves with it, but ending up being prosecuted under that same legislation when someone else gets to decide how to apply it.In the early day of republics they were much more aware that laws can be misused, and were somewhat more careful. Nowadays it seems our representatives value quantity over quality, the appearance of listening to the public over solving the problems the public is complaining about. That leads to the kind of legislation we see in Finland/EU and Australia: loaded footguns galore.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 08:24:39 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on December 01, 2024, 07:52:20 pm'House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said yesterday of health care reform legislation: “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.” 'We live in a time when politicians can say things like that, and not be promptly thrown out.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2024, 11:19:27 pm
content: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89vjj0lxx9oQuoteWouldn't it be so much more easier not to give them internet access and make sure they don't have unsupervised access to it in the first place until they could learn to be sensible and trusted.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2024, 07:42:20 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 01, 2024, 11:19:27 pmAnd how might you do that?There are 50 year olds who aren't sensible or trustworthy.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2025, 09:41:36 pm
content: Bracket creep has started.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-11/age-verification-search-engines/105516256

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 12:27:09 am
content: Well it is now official. Youtube will be included in the under 16 social media ban.No one under 16 in Australia will have a youtube account after December this year.So no commenting on eevblog videos.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-29/youtube-will-be-included-in-social-media-ban-for-under-16s/105587310

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 12:46:30 am
content: Quote from: .RC. on July 30, 2025, 12:27:09 amAnd no entering and winning contests like 13yo Josh did:Our government is run by complete retards.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 01:20:34 am
content: Google should just pull all services out of Aus completely and have every service just show a page explaining that this is what they voted for and instructions on how to use a VPN.Or at the very least ban all MP's accounts from accessing any Google service - I wonder how many of them use Gmail...

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 01:43:29 am
content: Quotejust as long as australia aint followed the uks lead and made it illegal just to pointing out a vpn can be used to bypass the ban and access there site

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 02:23:42 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 30, 2025, 01:20:34 amMrs EEVblog saw an ad from Google/Youtube on prime time TV the other night about this ban.And Google have threatened to sue the government:

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 03:59:53 am
content: What I usually hear about 'for the kids' makes me wonder how those kids in question are left unattended in anything but a padded room. I am pretty sure that the subset of kids they are referencing, if they exist, have and will be living in a facility for the rest of their lives.I usually see a kid and think "well that's not nearly as insane and stupid as they claim"The cited examples seem like massive cherry picking from problem cases that have about 500 different causesI have come to a firm conclusion that if you leave them completely alone without responsibilities, society will just not raise them properly regardless of how many laws and regulations you try to make. I think the end goal of some of these parents is to work 90/hrs a week (or have another reason for absence) and expect the street to act as daycare, then blame society when that plan does not work.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 04:32:10 am
content: Oh FFS what a tragedy.When we were 16 there was none of that uboob trash and we did just fine. We went to the library for education, did not stare for hours in a stupid box with rounded corners.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 06:21:02 am
content: Quote from: coppice on December 01, 2024, 08:24:39 pmThis post sounded like BS to me so in the spirit of doing my own research I found this in about 10 seconds.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/As I suspected it is deliberately intended to mislead the reader. The text of the ACA bill was already available publicly when she said these words. And that she said them is not in dispute. But quoted incompletely and out of context it is represented here disingenuously. I would have thought a quote should at least preserve the entirety of a sentence. "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."If you are interested the link I provided will give more details.Essentially she was saying there is a great deal of controversial misinformation that will be shown to be so in the light of experience. Feigning a lack of comprehension to advance ones own agenda is not new. If anything I resent it because it discourages politicians from speaking beyond the talking points so carefully crafted to say little and keep the target as small as possible.As an Australian it amused me to see the overlap of people for the Affordable Care Act AND at the same time against Obamacare. What could have led to that I wonder.I see another nostalgic thread developing here along the "In my day.." lines. However I am old enough to know that I would not want to go back to a time when I had to mail an order form to buy parts or not be able to so easily fact check when I am being bullshitted.I don't see any benefit to blocking most of YT to under 16's. But I do see aspects of social media which is very harmful to children and could easily become more so with advancements in AI enabling the bullying to be put on steroids.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 09:07:54 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on July 30, 2025, 06:21:02 amTrue, but that argument is moot, because you can't ban under 16yo from accessing these sites, they'll do it anyway if you let them have unfettered access the internet unsupervised and they have the desire to do so.And if you think the government is saving your child because of this, you're just a shit parent because you didn't care enough before to look at what they are doing to stop it, and you'll care even less now thinking the government has magically stopped it for you.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2025, 11:20:59 am
content: The only thing the government does that seems to benefit kids is physical barriers near tall/deep objects. Anything more then that is wishful thinking. Also things related to drowning. It seems that if they need to climb a fence to get some where, alertness and common sense goes up.Mainly I have open man hole covers and sewer things in mind

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 12:45:39 am
content: So what is the strategy here, for those of us that don't like this authoritarian overreach creeping into our daily lives?Any talk of protecting the children is largely a red herring. Precisely because it is everyone whoisn'ta child that will be pressured into deanonymising themselves and submitting sensitive data to 3rd parties. Therein lies the real motives.The government institutions that have these powers have a history of using them to quash anything going against government interests. It was used during the covid pandemic to pressure twitter and other media into removing dissenting opinions. It was used to censor videos of knife attacks in a Sydney mall and an attack on a priest in a church. It's the internet equivalent of "move along citizen, nothing to see here". At the same time we have the UK, a comparable culture utilising similar laws to censor protest footage as soon as the law is enacted. Again, "nothing to see here". With that in mind, people should prepare with the understanding that any of these laws will be used to at best inconvenience you, and worst as a weapon against you.Take for example youtube being covered by the laws. You sign into youtube with a google account, which also is used to access your emails, contacts, online docs etc.Does that mean you could be locked out of your emails and contacts if you don't provide google with some form of ID?The tech giant vs government battle might be the only exploitable avenue for the average person. The government doesn't want to appear the "bad guy" by directly punishing the average person, but instead wants to pass off the responsibility of collecting and storing sensitive data and ID onto the large tech companies.I endlessly hope that most people will break out of the effectively 2 party system that we have (along with most other nations). Both Labor and Liberal have shown they intend to pursue this goal of a highly controlled, highly censored internet. Unfortunately most of the populace seems to be either apathetic, or outright nanny state proponents.Honestly google, microsoft, facebook, instagram etc should all threaten to pull out of Australia. You should also explain to teenagers exactly which political parties were the cause of their troubles. Afterall, many of those affected will be voting next election. Hopefully steer them away from voting for retarded choices, like the Greens, who typically go after the young vote.Talk of the tech companies suing the Australian government will just mean the government pisses away more of our tax money fighting any lawsuits.From my experience, basically all government and public services in Australia are highly intertwined with (mainly) microsoft and google services. Seems like quite the bargaining chip there.Personally I have drastically reduced my reliance on google over the past couple of years, but this may trigger the final cut. Crazy that google isn't even the antagonist in this situation, but even so I would stop using my google account altogether before submitting some ID verification, and pass on feedback to google (for whatever it's worth).

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 02:39:00 am
content: Quote from: John B on July 31, 2025, 12:45:39 amDepends on how this entire shit show unfolds in practice.I actually support Youtube shutting down entirely in Australia over this, as they have threatened to do before when the Australian government tried to force Google to pay the news agencies.Youtube are now threatening to sue the government if this goes ahead, I hope they do.Maybe they should just ban the politicians from all Google services, here is the list of Senators who just moments ago voted against an inquiry into this whole thinghttps://x.com/ausvstheagenda/status/1950713118797267173

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 05:08:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 30, 2025, 09:07:54 amGrowing up at a time before social media I have a somewhat nostalgic view of childhood free from cyber-bullying where we were free to roam the neighbourhood for as far as we could go on our bikes and still get home soon enough after the street lights came on at dusk. But decades later the traffic is unreasonably more dangerous even for an adult. Looking at my local park the sandpit has a fence and childproof gate and the playground has soft spongy material and wood chips and helicopter parents.Clearly I survived but I had friends some of whom had multiple broken bones at various times. One got hit by a car, another dived into the creek and injured themselves on a submerged branch that wasn't there before the flood. I knew someone who lost an eye connecting a battery to a detonator they found.You can't protect kids from all harm but I'm not going to support doing nothing at all until an all encompassing solution comes along. There probably isn't one. It is like smoking when various things like plain packaging was introduced or graphic labels showing shocking images of some consequences, or even banning TV tobacco advertising or sporting sponsorship. All along the way as each was introduced there came the familiar refrain that it won't stop smoking. And they were right but in combination it is leading to a reduction in young people taking it up. I have a collection of about 18 vapes I have found on the ground just in the 1km between home and the shops. They seem to have more flavours than icecream. And I see empty cigarette packets on the ground that are clearly sold by the plethora of pop-up tobacco shops that seem to burn down with monotonous regularity as different criminal factions seek to gain the upper-hand.I also am mindful of thepoliticians logical fallacy"Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done" from the TV show Yes Minister.You're not going to get a world where all parents are suitably responsible in supervising children's online habits and I don't actually think it is even possible. It might be possible if the household had a single PC. The problem is beyond the ability of most parents.I'd like the children in the kindergarten across the road to not have Hi-Vis vests when going to the playground. The red toweling hats ought to have been sufficient.I'd like laws enacted to prevent companies collecting and retaining unnecessary data so that the regular data breaches are not nearly as consequential.I'd like electronic shelf tags in the supermarket to be more easily legible from a standing position.I could go on growing ever more confident some of these were so easy to do there could be no possible reason to not do it right away. Yet here I am. Will banning YT and social media solve the problem of bullying amongst children? No, not on its own. Do I want children to grow up not being bullied? Yes.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 05:36:02 am
content: the thing with vapes on the ground is bunk. Its because people are scared to throw away batteries into the trash. It can start a trash fire in a container filled with paper bags. People drop em because they hope it will break harmlessly in the rain from a short circuit due to water ingress, hopefully on a rock.There is zero effort on letting people conveniently dispose of now normal devices with flammable power packs. And its a stigma, so people will attempt to covertly dispose of them. Many adults throw them on the ground.I asked someone and they basically said "I am scared of getting arrested for starting a trash fire near a building but I don't have anywhere else to dispose of this and a patch of dirt seems like the best option so my wife/boss/authority figure does not find out I consumed some tobacco product and I can't risk the odor/bulge in my pants pocket/etc for the immediate future'.Like it gets left in a pocket when time is short and they are scared of smelling funny to some prude holy person talking about health all the time at work so they chuck it.If you got a smelly vape in your pocket and you have a meeting with some crazy boss in 15 then you have two options : risk a trash fire that can potentially set a structure on fire or throw it out on the concrete or dirt or asphalt where its extremely unlikely to start a dangerous fire. Oh yeah and you can say you dropped it by accident if someone happens to be walking behind you.If they used a multi-purpose battery (that can be wiped clean) then you would see disarmed vapes thrown into the trash bin and the batteries disposed of safely because the end-use of them is unknown since its a multi-purpose battery.I don't think you understand how freaking crazy people get when they need to dispose of electronics that they know can cause a fire from a internal battery. It might as well be a murder weapon. And there is alot of covert vape users that could basically face job problems if anyone finds out.Like who wants to be the first person to throw a used vape in the e-waste at work when their boss is going on about going to a health spa and you see the janitors having lunch with management lol. That feels like a 'sting operation'. You might as well set your calendar to 'covert ops' (all day) because you need to stake out the hallway till you get a good shot at getting to the e-waste undetected. Its completely ridiculous. Its like a hunter's blind and deer bait.Same thing with liquor bottles, you think people are drinking out of a 2l vodka bottle while driving but really it was empty and hidden in the closet for 4 months before someone decided their wife might find it so they toss it out of a car window at 3am. Hard to dispose of physical evidence which is used to smear people with gossip.... and the also scared of being profiled by the trash man or something.People want privacy but they are burdened with hard to dispose of physical evidence. where do you think it will end up? Perhaps there is a better solution, like more disposal sites, instead of surveillance.Australia has the unique invention of boxed wine which I am sure cut down on the amount of empty glass bottles people were tossing into a ditch.I think the whole 'well the street is littered with _______' argument is a damp squid. It's like that because the alternative sucks. Especially if it can start a fire or makes a unusual noise when its in the bin.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 08:07:12 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 31, 2025, 05:36:02 amCigarettes pose a greater fire risk than vapes do. I'm pretty sure more fires have been caused by discarded butts than vapes. Stupid people throw them into tinder dry vegetation or bins full of paper and start fires.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 08:17:37 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 31, 2025, 05:36:02 amSeriously? The average public have zero clue about this - it's just laziness, nothing more

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 10:26:02 am
content: Quoteput a small metal container on the top of bins instead of fining you £80 for dropping a fag butt

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 11:10:44 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 31, 2025, 10:26:02 amI say do both, but that doesn't stop idiots. The worst is people flicking them out of car windows.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 01:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 31, 2025, 08:17:37 amI think alot of people in the 20-50 year age group have fire on their minds when it comes to electronic devices. You see in the news more and more in the last 5 years, mostly related to e-bikes. I would say 1 big article a month for a e-mobility device on most local news sources. Tools too. They love to put up scary home security video of lithium device lighting someones living room or tool bench on fire.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 01:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 31, 2025, 01:42:07 pmMost of the people I see round here using a vapes probably don't even know it has a battery, let alone that there is any hazard.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 05:56:14 pm
content: maybe the people that use disposable ones. I think if they charge it they have a very good idea it has a battery. Of course the other reason it gets thrown out inappropriately is because the battery lost 95% of capacity and someone got pissed after spending 4 hours charging it and it fails on the end of lunch break.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2025, 06:49:15 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 31, 2025, 05:36:02 amNo.When it comes to disposable anything, people do not think at all. The second they no longer have an use for it, it will drop from their hands and from their minds.Only people who have trained themselves to not drop trash on the ground care enough to drop it into the nearest garbage bin. Smokers are used to throwing the butts on the ground, so that's where vapes go too.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2025, 04:36:07 am
content: Well EEVBlog has not made the list, but github has.Funnily enough Myspace is no where to be seen.The companies eSafety has contacted so far include:Meta (concerning Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp)SnapchatTikTokYouTubeX (formerly known as Twitter)Roblox (a game-creation platform with roughly 380 million users globally)Pinterest (an image sharing and image search platform)Discord (a social chat platform originally designed for gamers, which has since gained popularity with the wider community and especially Gen Z)Lego Play (a Lego-branded platform which includes a range of games and creative tools for children)Reddit (a popular message board service)Kick (an Australian-owned video streaming platform)GitHub (a cloud-based platform for sharing software code)HubApp (a platform designed to "plan and organise every get-together, from drinks to a reunion")Match (a company operating more than 45 dating apps and websites globally, including Tinder, Hinge and OkCupid)Steam (a store front and digital distribution service for PC games)Twitch (an Amazon-owned platform which offers live streaming and on demand video, predominantly to gamers)