Is Electronics Worth It Any More? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 10:25:10 pm
content: Hi,I used to make small electronic boards for various uses and sell them on t'interweb, however the last few years (and pre CV19) I have not been doing much as had other stuff going on, long story short I went to look at the cost of making another batch of boards and the components that were available have gone up to where I can only imagine if I give the price i'll be swiftly told to go forth and multiply.How do people who do it for a living get on? A friend of mine was looking for a storage unit, worked out it'd be cheaper to rent a house and use that as storage than a warehouse, yet a lot of these warehouses have been derelict for years.With increasing costs of buildings, components, services and still seemingly decent availability and pricing from eBay China is there still any worth making electronics in your own country now? UK here btw.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:13:37 pm
content: Make stuff for non-electronic people that need some kind of electronic thing for part of what they are doing, preferably where they are doing a hobby or recreational thing where justifying the exact price doesn't always have top priority.Electronics people never want to pay much for a board that they imagine they could build themself for nothing with their eyes closed.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:19:51 pm
content: Unless its a niche product you are charging a lot for, its generally done as a hobby:https://www.tindie.com/browse/https://lectronz.com/productsIf you can't easily charge over 2.5x BOM then its probably not worth doing.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/relationship-between-retail-price-and-bom-cost/

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:23:58 pm
content: I am sure people would pay if they wanted it bad enough but I am struggling to justify the costs to myself!A board (fully assembled) that cost me £3 to make a few years ago that I sold for £10 now costs over £10 to make!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:02:12 am
content: no, it looks like we are heading towards the high steam age

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:58:36 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on March 29, 2022, 12:02:12 amWell, that would require burning fossil fuels, or wood, wouldn't it? So, no. Because we want to save the planet. Apparently.So, we're not going to move backwards, or forwards, and will have a hard time standing still. Now what?

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 01:27:15 am
content: Short-term distress is one thing. But I wonder and worry, about the decimation, of any forward -looking planning process.What if you were, say, community college board, deciding on some industrial Technology courses, involving low cost PCB assemblies, and Vendor related dynamics. A sort-of Industrial Shop Economics 101 class, for the years 2022 through 2029.Unpredictable chaos factor looms, in that sort of planning /estimation.

author: Zipdox
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 11:05:55 am
content: "You will own nothing and you will be happy."Welcome to late stage capitalism.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 11:34:59 am
content: I do wonder if it will ever get back on track again or if something else will come along and cause more hassle, when I was in college many moons back I had to design a small amplifier board for my final project, no idea what you have to design now maybe it is free choice, but the company I work for is having a hard time getting PICs and AVRs lead times on some parts are over a year with customers wanting their devices by mid April, it is almost a case of design around the parts you can get and buy everything you can whilst available, but long standing legacy products that are still being built are up the creak without a paddle.And as I have said in my original post the cost of components have astronomically grown in a few years, just makes hobby stuff and low volume in most cases unviable, at least with a decent margin on. A 2x16 LCD that I used to buy was £3 odd postage included, now the cheapest I can get the same display is £12.99 + £2 postage, it's cheaper to buy a "module" from China and get the LCD than it is to buy an LCD, whilst this has been true for some parts in the past (MAX LED driver) it has never been the case for LCDs (not for me anyway).

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 11:50:58 am
content: My short answer is don't give up.The long answer is we all should move with the tide of economic prosperity rather than try to swim against the tide.For those who started in a garage and then grew to occupying a warehouse, it feels terrible to contemplate going back to the garage and disposing of assets that are no longer required.You feel that if you are not growing you're failing. But really, you're not. You're adapting and sprucing up the stationary! Commodities are the new cool. Try to predict what product/services you can supply in 3-6 months versus what nobody else can.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:27:01 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on March 29, 2022, 11:34:59 amYou must be joking. Parts are much cheaper than when I started 30 years ago. I remember seeing red LEDs for £1 for a packet of 2, plain old BJTs for £0.79 each, jellybean ICs such as the 555 timer or 741 for £1 each, electret microphone capsules for £2.50 each, at my local Tandy. Nowadays I can buy red LEDs for £0.32 each, a 555 for £0.43 each, even from RS Components. They're cheaper in larger quantities, even less from ebay.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 01:18:08 pm
content: QuoteTandys were never the cheapest,for a better idea of prices the old back issues of electronic mags give you a better idea,for example in march 1991 (https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Everyday-Electronics/90s/Everyday-Electronics-1991-03-S-OCR.pdf) you could get 12 leds,15 BC182 or 5 555s for a £1QuoteUnless it has something special theres still a fair few 16 x 2 lcd displays for under a fiver,even cpc have a few to chose from.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 02:16:46 pm
content: Let's check current prices. 2x16 text LCD at local online shop: 9 bucks, AliExpress: 2 bucks. A few years ago the cheapest one at the local online shop was 7 bucks or so.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 03:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on March 29, 2022, 01:18:08 pmI was 8 when I started, so Tandy was the only place to go.RS aren't the cheapest and it's still often cheaper than the prices listed in that magazine, given inflation.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 05:54:23 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 29, 2022, 02:16:46 pmI was referring to the exact same LCD as sold, that was the current price.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 05:57:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 29, 2022, 12:27:01 pmI am certainly not joking, I am not talking 30 years ago I am talking 2 or 3, yes parts and PCB's and such were very expensive, Tandy are no more, Maplin are no more (local shops anyway), RS components are of no use unless you get free postage or have a trade counter near you which I do not, my particular case was shopping on eBay.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 06:04:34 am
content: Is it worth it? I think it depends on what your other options are.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 06:43:20 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on March 28, 2022, 10:25:10 pmWoah, where is this?I've looked at the economics of buying a commercial office vs a house, but no way that would work around here for storage.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 09:52:06 am
content: UK, a storage unit - bearing in mind you have to pay business rates etc costed at the time around £1500 a month (excl business rates / tax etc) for not that much space, I don't recall the sq/ft but a 3 bedroom large house within 1 mile of the industrial estate was (at the time) £1200 a month, it just seemed very bizarre, with a house as is it is very divided in space however.An ex colleague of mine used to work out of a converted house in the middle of Bristol for a number of years, it was converted into a workshop / offices etc, when the CEO sold up he converted it back into a house and sold it, he stated that it was cheaper to buy a house than an actual workshop at the time, and that was around 2002 ish, he retired in 2016 so they had it a good few years, before the house the owner had a large portacabin on a farm which belonged to a friend of his, the farmer's wife died, he couldn't keep it going and sold the farm and the new owners gave him notice to move on. There are also people who I know who have said that the killer isn't the rent but the business rates, no idea how they calculate it but one building can be 2 x more than another just because of location, same size etc.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 09:16:34 pm
content: parts got ~30% more expensive than year prior . and shipping as well. MCUs and other fun farts out of stock. carbon resistors and stuff still available in any value/size.maybe market will normalize and adopt to new prices and stuff.maybe not , "You will own nothing and you will be happy." who knowsQuote from: EEVblog on March 30, 2022, 06:43:20 amchinese people/cartels/opportunists already figured out how to convert house in australia,usa... to transport hub for exporting 3M masks , baby food , ...houses packet top-bottom with narrow hallways

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 10:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: strawberry on March 31, 2022, 09:16:34 pm