OrCad for MSDOS - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:03:42 pm
content: In the TEA thread OrCad for MSDOS came up and I wonder if anyone has a cracked version of it.I myself have a original version with the dongle, but don't think it is easy to run in a DOS box due to the lack of a parallel port.Here are some pictures of the dongle.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:05:53 pm
content: I've cracked that 30yrs ago with the Watcom C debugger, who's offering some modest contribution for my cat to do it again?Cheers,DC1MC

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:07:06 pm
content: This is where I post about the software I havehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391455/#msg4391455Edit: Vince is the one expressing an interest, so lets hear what he has to say

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:21:36 pm
content: Can't be too difficult to crack, it must be a simple challenge-response thing. I used to do that using the debug.exe that came with dos.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:30:51 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on August 31, 2022, 07:21:36 pmYou may have a surprise, this is 386 protected mode code with all bells and whistles, timers anti-stepping, fake "simple checkpoints" that seem to work, but the interface blocks in 5min, or saving is blocked and many other similar "Easter eggs" including int3 detection.If you do crack this with debug exe I'll buy something for your cat or dog

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:38:52 pm
content: Ok, that was Protel back in the day, probably not as boobytrapped as you mention. Luckily today we have a lot of tools like IDA and such, so I bet it's not that difficult. The challenge is to find the point where the response is checked and always return true, might take a few hours but not impossible I guess.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 07:56:15 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on August 31, 2022, 07:38:52 pmThis is such a naive approach, in '96 only some old games were using it, if I remember correctly this guy had tables of function pointers and variables that were scrambled with the stuff read from the dongle, and those variables and function pointers were determining the behavior of the program, most of the time, after the "easy stuff" fut making it defective in a subtle way, from not generating the photo-plotter files to defective savings or just having some menus hidden. I did remember that pretty late in the cracking game, when we thought we did it, the last booby trap it was that was generating the plotter files mirrored.The widely circulated at the time cracked version was ca. 30% done and was barely the student version active (limits in schematics) with bad manufacturing files generation. I do remember getting the Intel 386 printed manuals from the Uni to look what the hell some protected mode instructions were doing and what flags were modified.I seriously doubt that I'll be able to do it fully again and that there is actually people left capable of doing it nowadays, the infrastructure is just not there.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 08:33:22 pm
content: Wow, can't believe we got kicked out of TEA for talking cool ON-topic stuff like reverse-engineering a vintage Electronics CAD tool dongle and making our own.... if that is OT then what is ON topic ?I give up on TEA, I don't belong there....I am really not in the mood for anything EE related now, I am completely pissed !Regardless.... thanks to DC1MC, I now know it's not worth pursuing anyway, as technically WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over my head as a modest simple stuff hobbyist !!!Unless I can find a cracked version ready to go on the web, I won't bother....PCprogrammer if you do find your cracked copy, post it here of course !I tried to Google that chip and other than the satisfaction that it is NOT a proprietary chip, but an off the shelf one.... the joy soon disappeared when I realized there was no datasheet to be found, and that it was a fancy dedicated "Security" chip, not just some EPROM with some code in it as I stupidly thought it might be !After some Googling, the best I could come up with, is this page :https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/lets-repo-a-cat702-security-chip.11590/A site dedicated to retro arcade games. Apparently some arcade games used that security chip as well, so those guys too were trying to "crack" it....

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 08:43:42 pm
content: @Vince - how and who actually "kicked you out" of the TEA thread ?

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pm
content: Nobody kicked ME... as I said we collectively ( the Orcad people) got kicked out of there.... PCprogrammer got complaints, as he said.... I brought this OrCAD subject on the table and "fueled" it, so the complaints basically were directed at me really.If PCprogrammer got complaints, or any body else, about this Orcad dongle thing then that means that big brother does not allow what I consider 100% on-topic stuff (and they don't even have the balls to complain publicly ! ).If I can't post about this stuff on TEA, then I am now truly "scared" of posting ANYTHING, because I would always be fearful of being judged off-topic and a "nuisance" to the well-being of teh thread.I just don't feel like posting if every time I post something, I have to be scared of being deemed OT. It's not fun any more...ALSO, just noticed somethig real strange : that other French guy that just posted his very first message on the forum this evening, who also posted about OrCAD,.... I replied to him to welcome him and .... look, his post has been DELETED !!My reply to him now looks weird / stupid, like I am talking to some imaginary member, because I did not quote him... given that my reply was right below his post, so there was no need to quote him, it would just have been clutter.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4391428/#msg4391428Strange things happen on TEA...

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 12:11:43 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 31, 2022, 07:03:42 pmCross post from TEA + extra:Speaking about the devil(see picture)If these days anybody needs parallel/serial port, the MSI AMD (E)ATX PRO line includes them on-board(disclaimer: consult manual first); lack of LED lighting makes them even more attractive and sexy

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 04:02:02 am
content: Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmSorry Vince, the complainer had the balls to do it publiclyhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4391476/#msg4391476and I just kindly responded by moving the topic here. Does it really matter where the talk about something is being held?Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmIt is a bit of a shame that the turmoil of the last couple of weeks is resulting to this, but lets hope that with the new section created things will improve.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/discussing-the-usage-of-the-tea-thread/msg4392361/#msg4392361

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 04:08:27 am
content: Have not had the time yet to play with the old machine. Maybe later today.And what DC1MC wrote did trigger some thought. I have heard about these dongles doing this code modifying thing. Although interesting to pursue, I have so many other projects that it is not one for me.The Xilinx dongle that was an easy one. Just a pulse counter that needed to return a pulse after so many counts.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:04:29 am
content: Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 08:33:22 pmUnfortunately the link to a github repository given on the above page does not exist anymore. Would have been interesting to see if they had the algorithm used in this chip. That would still leave the "key" for OrCad to be found.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:19:04 am
content: Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmVince, I looked back and it was not you who brought OrCAD to the tablehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4375225/#msg4375225This is where it started.You just respondedhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4387945/#msg4387945Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmHe or she did not post about OrCAD, but about some test equipment. There was a link to some video. Maybe got scared off with your happy there is a new FROG here.Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmBut indeed it looks a bit silly nowThis is the one that mentions OrCADhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4389448/#msg4389448

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:38:50 am
content: Quote from: Vince on August 31, 2022, 09:10:00 pmI've reported him/her for spam(link to some backpack store); the only thing for which I report a post.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:48:06 am
content: Well I was posting there, at least trying to help since this kind of stuff interests me as an IT guy (hardware side mainly and autodidact - only College diploma) with a one year vocational Industrial Electronics degree with 5 years of telecommunications support, hardware and equipment configuration.It was probably the first post I've made in the TEA thread since although going there regularly I always found it overwhelming in terms of updates. I like slower pace threads.That's a problem I have in this forum, for some reason I find hard to get people to reply to me. I try to be helpful and try to give my experience but most of the time my comment is just one in the middle of active exchanges of other members, with most of the time no one picking it up and continuing. Not always but in the most technical posts is like that.It makes it look that you need to have a certain amount of status for people to recognise that you are in the corner listening with attention but no one dares to look at you. That's why sometimes I say that I'm afraid of saying anything since I see most as people way higher in knowledge than me and nothing I can say will make a difference in the big scope of things.But heck, forget the rant, this is not a pandering myself kind of topic. It's just an indication of something I've realised that may be totally wrong.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 07:35:07 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 01, 2022, 05:04:29 amThe github repository was some rando's fork of Mame, the world's best emulation site and cat702 was added in version 0.178:https://github.com/mamedev/mame.gitto clone the whole stuff orhttps://github.com/mamedev/mame/releases/tag/mame0178to get the version where the file was introduced.Having the actual valid dongle together with the software is a game changer, we were only having access at it for couple of hour in the night, so we've focused on cracking the code, but if someone has the dongle and the software that uses it, is nowadays elementary to intercept the communication and emulate it, both in sw or hw.At the tepid German Internet speed that I have here it will take an hour to clone the repository, but then a simple program can be written to buzz the dongle and dump it. If there is interest for the antique best I can even do it.Cheers,DC1MC

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 07:37:51 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on September 01, 2022, 05:48:06 amI guess that are my sentiments too, Black Phoenix. It all depends on what you bring to the table if it brings interaction or not. And that can make one feel a bit unwelcome.Sure a bit off topic here, but that is live for you. I noticed you also participated in the discussion of the TEA thread, and there it feels the same in a sense that not all appreciate the input you bring.Lets just try to move on and continue with what we enjoy. Technology

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 12:52:16 pm
content: Well I hooked up my old MSDOS machine and I have two versions of OrCAD running on it. A 3.20a version that is schematic editor only which seems to work without a dongle. I was able to make a connection between two 7404 inverters and think I could save it, but I need to connect a lower res monitor, because the alignment on my 1920x1080 monitor is shifted, and auto adjust did not fix it. Did not want to fiddle with the knobs. Because of this the top text was half of the screen.The other version is V4.40 which gives a startup screen to select different applications, but when I selected Draft it failed on wanting the dongle, so definitely not cracked.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:02:44 pm
content: I used to use Orcad for DOS and later switched to Protel. I don't remember these having a dongle.I do remember that the DOS one I had was very limited as far as which video cards it supported. I bought a new Diamond board and Orcad did not support it so I put together a driver for it. I thought it may be helpful and uploaded it to their BBS. They deleted it. That was the last time I tried to help them.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:06:29 pm
content: Quote from: Zoli on September 01, 2022, 05:38:50 amThe site has a rule about placing copyright materials on it. Guessing they don't want to be liable for it. No idea what happened but maybe they decided it was alright to upload stolen software. Outside of that, hard to believe it would be deleted.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:16:42 pm
content: Due to what you wrote I removed what I attached, but the post you refer to had nothing to do with OrCAD. It was apparently just advertisement.Edit: I'm running what I have on a either Pentium III or IV, can't remember which and did not check when I started the machine. There is a simple video card in there and it works.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:38:29 pm
content: I had a programmers book on video cards that had most of the chipsets of the day (800X600). Seems that Trident was supported by everyone. I don't remember the version of Orcad I have supporting anything beyond that resolution but that's been what, 30 years?Hard to believe they would pull a post over an ad on Orcad. I've posted old ads like this before along with snips from old articles without any problems. I seem to remember someone posting a link to a site that had a bunch of stolen material on it and that getting deleted. Could be wrong on that one.Most of the copy protected software I used from back then used a burned disk, or some sort of dongle. I have a few somewhere that I made. Some of these were just simple counters with a bit of logic. The Rainbow CPLUS was a bit more complicated using a PROM.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 01:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 01, 2022, 01:38:29 pmThe post was advertising backpacks, at least according to Zoli. Vince just thought it was about OrCAD, but he was mistaken with another post about it. It was a bit more sophisticated than some of the other spamming seen before. It looked like a post about test equipment with a link to what looked like a video. I did not checked it, but Zoli did.Quote from: joeqsmith on September 01, 2022, 01:38:29 pmYes some of the dongles were very simple with just a counter. I have used Protel for PCB long ago, but can't remember if that had a dongle.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 02:30:47 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 01, 2022, 01:54:00 pmYes true, I remember it had a (what it looked like a YouTube Video) video of an old Oscilloscope and then some text where he/she mention something of needing a backpack.I clicked in the link and it gone to some website with a banner of a kid holding a backpack. I didn't check the video, and I thought the link was there by mistake.I didn't associated the things as Zoli did. Specially after Vince said it was someone that had been a member for years and was his/her first post, specially in his thread. That should had ringed some red flags in my head, or at least find it strange but I just kept scrolling down...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 02:41:53 pm
content: I can see them pulling a topic on backpacks if someone complained about it. Rules are pretty clear about that but from what I have seen they are pretty lenient. Still, what kind of idiot posts about backpacks in a EE site?Then again, I've posted about firearms, motorcycles, dogs and cats.The two versions of Protel I own do not use a dongle. They just use that globetrotter that everyone else used during that period. I still have these installed on my current PC running on a virtual box.I wonder of the DOS version of Orcad would run under DOSBOX. Back then, I was using DeskView to run more than one task and would run Orcad under it.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:06:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 01, 2022, 02:41:53 pmIt is a "small" difference about discussing about backpacks, and post a hidden link likeCode:[url=backpackshop]backpackThe first is off-topic, the second is spam; both can be reported, but I will never report the first.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:19:42 pm
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on September 01, 2022, 02:30:47 pmThe misunderstanding here is that Vince is talking about two different members. The one LaulauBra (or something like it) was the one with the backpack thing. Was registered today and probably also kicked out today due to the thing being spam.The other one, HenryFeng registered two years ago and the post about OrCAD was his second post

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on September 01, 2022, 02:41:53 pmWho knows, but a big problem is the lack of a parallel port on modern computers, so either the dongle needs to be emulated, or OrCAD has to be cracked.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 03:49:49 pm
content: If I post something off topic, I am fully expecting it to be pulled and possibly get my account locked. It's not my site. I am thankful that I am able to use it and if things get so bad, I would just stop posting. No problem. I have no interest in organized religion, politics.... so the only time I have had a problem was trolling trolls.I've never tried to contact an admin over anything posted. I have made use of the ignore for people who like to post a lot of off topic material.Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 01, 2022, 03:27:37 pmAt least with the DOS version I have, there was no dongle. Actually, I don't remember there being any protection. I would have to go back and look. I did have a PCMCIA printer port that would work but with my newer PC even that's out. Now I have a PCIe card that seems to be made for engineers. You can talk to the card in DOS just like the old days but you can't map it to the old IO addresses. I have a old DOS based programmer that I use with it. The problem is that you have to hack the port number is all. Newer software supported user defined IO addresses and shouldn't be a problem.I have a license for the Altera MaxPlus tools which required hardware key as well. When Intel bought Altera, I had moved to the new PC which had no printer port. I provided Intel with the original purchase order and they created a license file that did not require the hardware key.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 04:18:22 pm
content: I earlier received a personal message from a member stating that he has a version IV of which he thinks it is cracked. Asked him to send a message to Vince, since he is the one who wants to play with it. Also encouraged him to post in this thread, so wait and seeOne day I might play with OrCAD and Xilinx XACT to make use of several old FPGA's I still have, or a sampler board I made long ago also having several of the old XC3042 chips on it.But first I have to finish a couple of things. One is the project to keep the wife happy, and no not that one (), I have to finish paving the terrace with stones, but that is just one more morning I hope. The other is the reverse engineering of the FNIRSI 1013D FPGA design, which is very interesting but requires a lot of concentration and energy. After that I will see what comes up the list, which is lonnnnng

author: jm_araujo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 04:52:10 pm
content: It was me and already sent Vince a PM.Didn't post in the thread because I'm an occasional forum lurker that only come here sporadically , and other than having a barely remembered 26yo zip file archived since my teenage years I don't think I have much to contribute

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 05:06:37 pm
content: You already helped a lot. You saved time for us to have to redo the work already done 20 so years ago.Saudações Lusitanas do outro lado do Mundo.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2022, 07:30:50 pm
content: Hold on, not so fast !I got jm_araujo's S/W a second ago, will try it out.. HOWEVER, it's not the full OrCAD suite but just the schematic capture, so missing the PCB layout, autorouter at the least so... sorry, you sill need to maike a Dongle !I give you 10 days. The winner get a pat in the back... yes I am skint !OK, I must say I never anticipated it would be such an adventure to revive OrCAD... might be more trouble than it's worth !I though it would be 20 minutes project, download it, play with it for an hour, be satisfied and move on.... I never meant to embark into a "project" !Especially not one I can't handle by myself by a long shot !

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 04:42:26 am
content: I'm not even sure if what I have here is the full suiteBut at least moving here got some results. Not sure if jm_araujo would have seen the talk about it in the TEA thread.And if my copy does not include the PCB part, it might well be that my dongle is only suited for the schematic capture part.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 06:50:31 am
content: Hello everybody, after some eons the Mame repository was finally cloned and the CAT702 module is still there in the latest version. To my great amazement is a very nice and clean code and well commented, a rarity in Open Source or, actually, in most software projects. I've always wondered what's the big deal with those arcade games, why they are so difficult to reproduce in the first time, and now I know, the game companies, lead by Sony didn't spare any efforts or money on copy protection, those things were brutal.Anyway, from a technical point of view is a very interesting beast and now it explains why we've had such a hard time three decades ago, here is the description and "modus operandi" from the code module:Code:/*CAT702 ZN security chipA serial magic latch.It's a DIP20 chip with a sticker of the form XXnn, where XX is thecompany and nn a number:AC = AcclaimAT = AtlusCP = CapcomET = RaizingKN = KonamiMG = TecmoTT = TaitoTW = AtariThere usually are 2 of them, one on the cpu board and one on the romboard. The cpu board one is usually numbered 01.Pinout: GND -11 10- GND? -12 9- +5V+5V -13 8- Data inData out- 14 7- Clock+5V -15 6- Select? -16 5- Select+5V -17 4- +5V+5V -18 3- +5V+5V -19 2- +5V+5V -20 1- ?The chip works with the '?' lines left unconnected.The communication protocol is serial, and in practice the standardpsx controller communication protocol minus the ack. Drive bothselect to ground to start a communication, send bits and get theresults on the raising clock. Put both select back to +5V whenfinished. The bios seems to use two communication clock speeds,~300KHz (standard psx) and ~2MHz. Driving it with lower clocksworks reasonably, at least at 1KHz.The data is divided in bytes but there is no signal for end-of-byte.In all of the following the data will be considered coming and goinglower-bit first.Internally the chip has a 8-bit state, initialized at communicationstart to 0xfc. The structure is simple:+---------+ bit number +--------+Clock ------->| bit |-----+-------------------->| bit |---------> Data out| counter | | | select |+---------+ v +-------+ out | || +-----+ | 8bit |=====>| |Data in ------------|------->| TF1 |<=>| state | +--------+| +-----+ | || | || start +-----+ | |+------->| TF2 |<=>| |+-----+ +-------+The chip starts by tranforming the state with TF2. Then, for eachinput bit from 0 to 7:- the nth bit from the state is sent to the output- the state is transformed by TF1 if the input bit is 0TF2 is a fixed linear substitution box (* = and, + = xor):o = ff*s0 + fe*s1 + fc*s2 + f8*s3 + f0*s4 + e0*s5 + c0*s6 + 7f*s7TF1 is a chip-dependent set of 8 linear sboxes, one per bit number.In practice, only the sbox for bit 0 is defined for the chip, the 7other are derived from it. Defining the byte transformation Shiftas:Shift(i7..i0) = i6..i0, i7^i6and noting the sboxes as:Sbox(n, i7..i0) = Xor( c[n, bit]*i)0<=bit<=7thenc[n, bit=0..6] = Shift(c[n-1, (bit-1)&7])c[n, 7] = Shift(c[n-1, 6])^c[n, 0]= Shift(c[n-1, 6])^Shift(c[n-1, 7])*/Now I really wish to have one to play withRegarding the Orcad versions, there was academic edition without dongle and some strongly restricted versions with dongle, to be give to the "international partners" for low cost schematic capture and digitization of paper schematics.I'm curios now what is actually in those archive.org archives, most likely the academic version.Cheers,DC1MC

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 07:46:21 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 31, 2022, 07:03:42 pmWhich version are you after? I have the MSDOS version somewhere which fully works.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 09:47:37 am
content: Vince seems to be interested in the full version of 4.4 including the PCB drawing suite.I have tried mine with the dongle and it is only schematic capture that I have installed. My guess is that the dongle will not work with the PCB part, because I did not pay for it at the time.It is also on the box, OrCAD STD (schematic design tools).

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 11:09:46 am
content: To be sincere I think that we are all interested in a full suite unlocked. So all the options possible for the time. But I'm talking about myself.I'm also curious with all of this, and in learning more. Specially when some hardware locking system is in place.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 11:37:39 am
content: Well what DC1MC found seems to provide the algorithm used in the chip, so what is needed, is to figure out the key. But also if the software can differentiate between different keys.What I mean with that is when there are indeed different dongles for the different packages (STD, PCB, ...) how does the software work with this. Did you get multiple dongles when you bought more then one part of the suite, or a single dongle with a different key for which the software has provisions to deal with this.Don't want to part with my dongle, but can run some code to pass data through it and capture the results, if someone supplies the code. The machine I have the HDD in is based on a pentium III 866MHz.It is indeed an interesting topic, but not one I want to invest a lot of time in, at least at the moment.Edit: It is fun to have fiber internet. Just downloaded the mame master of 195MB and it took not even 30 seconds

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 04:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 02, 2022, 07:46:21 amWas me !This thread is all because of me I am afraid to admit...I will take any version you have for MS-DOS ! The newer the better I guess...As long as it's complete with schematic + PCB layout, maybe the autorouter as a bonus just for fun... I would be very thankfulIt's purely for the nostalgia aspect of it.... I remember briefly using it at school in 1996/97, so I thought hey let's see if I can download it somewhere and play with it a little bit to bring back old memories !

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 05:40:22 pm
content: Circa 1990 I used OrCAD extensively in DOS (it was a 1987 version, but I don't recall the number) and it worked quite well without a dongle - I want to say it was cracked, but I can't recall. Back then the Trident TVGA 512kB was fully supported on 800x600x256 (NEC Multisync 3D) and it was quite useful - the Trident was the VW bug of the video cards.Circa 1992 I got ahold of a newer version but had several issues due to the absence of a dongle - by then I wasn't doing much PCBs and this went down in my concern list.By 1995 (96?) Protel was coming out in the horizon and its incredible GUI was way too overwhelmingly good to give any attention to OrCAD and its woes. Over the years I had my spats with Cadence and only more recently I resumed full time work on it - I am reliving the old interface.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 06:22:46 pm
content: Back in the day that I was designing hardware, for what I recall of it, we had OrCAD for the schematic entry and used Protel for designing the PCB. This was before 1992. Why the two different bits of software I don't remember. What I do remember is that when the idea of using, at that time called, LCA's of Xilinx came up, there was a definitive use for OrCAD, because that was the way presented to design the logic schemes for processing with XACT.But it is all a bit vague after 30 plus years. Still have the designs on the same HDD as the OrCAD versions., along with versions of Protel and XACT.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 12:54:13 am
content: Ah, and there was a time before OrCAD that I used Autocad 2.6 extensively for my schematic diagrams - I had a reasonable library of fundamental parts and blocks that helped me quite a lot. These were the days of the green phosphorus CGA monitor.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 02:36:56 am
content: Seeing all of that other experience with EDA programs and nostalgia an the best I know is how to start it.Last year just started for the first time working with Solidworks and was able to make some simple projects (then laser cut). But I have a project in my mind that I want to start that will need Solidworks and I will need to design a simple PCB.Looks like I will have to learn how to use a EDA...

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 04:16:52 am
content: Yes an EDA is very helpful for doing schematics and PCB design. And when you don't want to install software for it there is EasyEDAhttps://easyeda.com/editorIt is free and I have used it quite a bit the last couple of years.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 11:13:04 am
content: Don't forget KiCAD as well. It already comes furnished with an extensive library of parts and footprints that reduce the learbing curve immensely.As with any pre-existing third party library, always double check the physical dimensions and pin arrangements of parts you use before fabricating the board.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 05:18:12 pm
content: Well, it sort of works:I created a VM, installed MS-DOS 6.22 on it, created FLP files for al the different disks for version 4.4 that can be found on archive.org and started installing. For some reason the 4th disk for the PCB part was missing the DISK.ID at first and I had to cancel the installation, but after creating a valid DISK.ID the install still hangs on that disk, more work needed I guess. The SCH part seems to work and is not complaining about a dongle (yet), I was able to save and load files, one of the things that makes it complain if I remember correctly. Going to tackle the PCB install next.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 05:36:30 pm
content: Keep at it, looking good !

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 05:49:42 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 03, 2022, 05:36:30 pmThe interface is horrible and it looks like I lost my muscle memory for this 25 years ago

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 06:17:10 pm
content: Now look at that, doesn't that bring back memories?

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 07:05:16 pm
content: So this means that the files on archive.org don't need the dongle and just work. Well that is interesting.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 08:35:36 pm
content: Oh yes PA0PBZ, that does look really really really nice, well done, thanks for that !Super cool.... I was about to get to bed, tired, but decided to refresh this thread one last time quick.... glad I did !I will now make sweet dreams, imagining meself tomorrow, downloading the thing from archives.org and trying to get it to work in a DOS emulator or a VM on my Linux box !Hopefully I can manage that...First I will need to find MS-DOS "images" so I can install MSDOS in the VM !..... well, hoping the VM can even run MSDOS... I am using VirtualBox.So no Dongle nightmare anymore, yeah !

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 09:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 03, 2022, 07:05:16 pmAnd it supposed to run in dosbox, too

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 01:19:13 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on September 03, 2022, 05:49:42 pmWow, those images immediately brought me many decades back, including the unparalleled color scheme and the old interface quirks, such as the mouse that only went up and down on that open menu - it must be PTSD...

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 03:20:12 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 03, 2022, 07:05:16 pmIntusoft's ICAP spice program required a dongle. I had intended to circumvent it when suddenly they sent me all new floppies with 32-bit versions of the programs for use with the then new Win 95. The new version didn't ask for a dongle or a code or anything.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 07:28:03 am
content: For anyone going to have a play: I made an error earlier, It's not the PCB disk that is missing the DISK.ID, it's disk 4 of 5 of the schematic editor. Be sure that you create the file before starting the install.OrCAD/SDTv1.20Disk 4 of 5

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 11:49:22 am
content: OK I have managed to install MS-DOS 6.22 in a VirtualBox VM.... was much easier than I thought. VB can handle MS-DOS, it offers this choice, and DOS disk images are easy to find it appeared.So now I have DOS running just fine in the VM.... the problem now is making a trillion disk images from the very numerous Orcad "disk" folders..... on Linux. I am googling, googling, but so far only command-line stuff, and nothing relevant to the particular use case here. Still searching. I can't believe there is not a GUI to make that easier for newbies like me, I just can't believe...Getting there... I hope....

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 11:54:53 am
content: Yes that is linux for you. Lots of command line stuff. Getting this done, would for me also mean a lot of googling

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 11:59:20 am
content: I have all the disks in FLP format, that's for VMWare player, not sure if you can use them. Otherwise you could do what I did, create an ISO from the install folders, mount that in the VM and then create numerous virtual disks, mount them one by one and copy the correct contents to each. Then during installation mount the appropriate disk images when asked for.EDIT: If you go that way create one, format it and then copy+rename until you have enough

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 12:17:11 pm
content: I just realized that " FLP " appears to be one of the valid floppy image file formats that VirtualBox supports, look !Can you upload your FLP images to DropBox or a GoogleDrive or something if you have that ?Gonna take a while... maybe if you could just send me only one image first (The main / first install disk), to test if it works, via e-mail maybe ?I will send you a PM with my e-mail address...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 12:34:09 pm
content: Since the files are free to get on archive.org I guess I can attach it here. If not and it disappears I will upload it somewhere.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 12:53:09 pm
content: Thanks !Unfortunately it doesn't work.. the VM fails to boot from it, says"Non-System disk or disk error"Oh well, was worth a shot I guess !

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 02:10:22 pm
content: I guess you'll need to install MSDOS in the VM first and then run the Orcad installer. However, I think Orcad should run OK on WinXP or even Windows7 in a DOS box.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 02:31:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 04, 2022, 02:10:22 pmSee above, I have already done just that 2 hours ago !This part works...Quote from: nctnico on September 04, 2022, 02:10:22 pmYes, that's what I am now trying to do, but I need disk images for that... the VM won't take directories as an input (not that I can see anyway), only disk images.Quote from: nctnico on September 04, 2022, 02:10:22 pmYes but my Vintage computer is not "available" at the moment, so to speak... so for now I am trying to get it to work in a VM on my main / Linux computer, hence I need to be able to make disk images.Am still Googling for that... one day maybe I will find the answer...I think I will just end up buying a cheap USB floppy drive and write the install disks on actual floppies (I have dozens of them, maybe soe of them are still good/usable, who knows...), then I can get the VL to use the actual floppy drive rather than an image file...I meant to buy a USB floppy drive anyway, for other purposes, like using on old Tektronix TDS scopes, or my messing around with vintage computer in general.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 03:20:43 pm
content: How about using this dosbox thingyhttps://www.dosbox.com/. I think someone mentioned this too. No idea how it works and if it can mount floppy disk images.But looking at what I have on my old HDD, I don't see anything special that needs to be installed. Don't know what is on the disks, but they could just be a multi volume archive. So who knows if it is possible to do the extracting on your linux machine itself.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 03:41:41 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 04, 2022, 12:53:09 pmDid you create a C: drive and did you install MS-DOS on there? If not, do that first and then make sure that the BIOS is set not to have the A: drive (removable media?) as first boot option!

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 06:30:44 pm
content: D'OH !!!!!Thanks people for stating the obvious, I guess I did need it !Why the hell did I want to BOOT from this freaking floppy ! I am not trying to install an operating system FFS !!!Oh boy....OK, so it works much better now... I just boot MS-DOS, tehn I can go to the floppy, display all the files in it.. so the image works it seems, cool !But.... when I run the " Install.bat " file... it loads up then I get a black screen, and the VM is stuck/frozen, unresponsive to the keyboard.... so I have to reset the VM, I try again... and get again a black screen.I don't know....DOSBOX : I did try it briefly before trying VirtualBox, however I was not impressed and had to give up after a few seconds... I can't even use the keyboard, it uses a QWERTY layout but I need AZERTY here. I don't know how to load a floppy image either.I will try to find a user manual on-line to see how to use it, at least how to set the keyboard layout to French so I can then type commands at the prompt to use the integrated help system.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 06:40:34 pm
content: When I run the install.bat file this is what I see after a brief 'popup' kind of message. I have no idea why it doesn't work for you apart from the fact that I use VMWare player and you are using VirtualBox. Is there a VMWare player for Linux?

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 06:42:12 pm
content: Making progress... DOSBOX starts with a 'Z' directory. I listed the files there, found a few executable files / programs. Found "KEYB.COM".Typed "KEYB FR "... worked, I now have a French K/B and can type stuff at the command line easily now...I see there is another program called IMGMOUNT, sounds promising.... but nee dto create a ' C 'drive first somehow, otherwise the ORCAD install program won't be happy for sure....

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 06:57:07 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on September 04, 2022, 06:40:34 pmThanks for the screenshot.Yes VMware is available for Linux (both the player or the complete thing), but the problem is that it's not open-source (unlike Virtualbox), so it requires its own installer, which bypasses the packages management system of Linux, it's messy. I just downloaded it anyway. Takes some fiddling though, so will take a little time maybe.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 06:59:20 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 04, 2022, 06:30:44 pmAh yes, that is true you froggies have these silly keyboardsThat is why I have to buy my computers abroadP.S. I have to respond to what you wrote elsewhere about the French not speaking English, and I have to acknowledge this. I was at the hairdresser last Thursday and I just speak a little bit of French and understand way less. At some point it came up that I'm not English but Dutch, but I do speak English. Then the daughter of the woman cutting my hair chimed in with some English. Could not understand what she was saying. "blu dri" it sounded like. Eventually she looked it up on her phone and spelled it. (b l o double v d r y) "blow dry". Hilarious

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 07:21:29 pm
content: Re: VMWare vs VirtualBox - I have both and sometimes one does the stuff better, sometimes the other. I think VirtualBox did put up a fight with USB when I tried to run GNU Radio on Linux in a VM. That was a few years ago so it might be totally different now

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 07:23:09 pm
content: Your hair dresser sounds like fun.... but I am condused now... why do you speak English with hair dresser to begin with ?!... or does that mean you don't leave in Dutch-land but rather some English speaking country ?!Making progress with Dosbox.. I followed the on-screen instructions to mount / created a ' C ' drive. My C drive in DOSBOX corresponds to the folder on my hard-drive where I downloaded ORCAD.So, I loaded the ORCAD install.bat file from the hard-drive, and bingo, it loads up !!!Of course it fails to install ORCAD, it expect to be run from the floppy drive, not from the hard drive.So I now need to see how to mount a floppy image.... and how to change them on the fly while DOSBOX is running... that part sounds rather difficult to me... because there are no menu bar in the DOSBOX application window. So once you have the ORCAD installer on the screen how on earth can you tell DOSBOX to change the floppy miage file for a different one ?!But I will figure it out hopefully !

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 07:30:39 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 04, 2022, 07:23:09 pmSorry can't help you with dosboxI speak French with my hairdresser, because I live in France. But since I don't understand it that well she tries to say things in English, but fails together with her daughter. I can manage to explain how I want my hair cut and understand some pointers when she needs me to tilt my head, but a conversation about much more then the weather is of the table. My wife is way better at it.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 07:40:36 pm
content: Oh you live here !OK makes sense now.... so where are you ? Have long have been you here ? How long do you plan on staying here ?I am in Saint-Nazaire on the Atlantic coast.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 09:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 04, 2022, 06:59:20 pmGood moaning.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 03:49:58 am
content: "You stupid woman..."OFFTOPICHow I miss this kind of older British humor.Although the "The IT Crowd" filled my needs for a while. And so accurate, as someone who is education is IT related. The "Did you turn if off and on again?" it's so true and the solution for tons of problems.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 06:07:41 am
content: Quote from: Vince on September 04, 2022, 07:40:36 pmI'm in the Correze near Brive. For 14 years already and plan to die here after hopefully still many yearsVery quiet and peaceful and the people are very kind. A big difference from the Netherlands. Also a long drive from where you areLast year we came close when we took our cat to "dierenparadijs-anjou" in 49220 Erdre en Anjou.I thought you lived near Toulouse since you wrote about working for Airbus

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 06:15:37 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on September 04, 2022, 09:12:01 pmYes very funny indeed, but the French don't really know this, and if it has been broadcasted on TV here it would have been dubbed into French, and you can imagine how that would not workQuote from: Black Phoenix on September 05, 2022, 03:49:58 amIndeed nothing to do with OrCAD for MSDOS, but as long as no one complains I'm ok with it. It is not as if this thread gets high attentionNever seen or heard about "The IT Crowd". Have to google it.A lot of the new stuff being on TV lacks good humor to my opinion. Did like "The big bang theory" up to it became a bit lame after season 9 or so.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 03:42:31 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 05, 2022, 06:07:41 amOh, well we can say you are French then !14years here, and you still don't speak French ?!Hurry up, get a grammar book and a dictionary quick !Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 05, 2022, 06:07:41 amI bet it's quiet, it's a desert !A nice kind of desert though, as you said. Wish I could live in that kind of place but the jobs are in the bigger cities... the Center of France isn't the best place to find a job and make a career... unless you can work from home of course...Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 05, 2022, 06:07:41 amOh ! That's close to Angers, where I grew up ! It's the "big" town in the #49 Department / "Maine et Loire". My dad still lives there in the ex-familiy house.Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 05, 2022, 06:07:41 amNope !I did spend a year in Toulouse to do my one year training in aviation / aerostructure, but then I got recruited there, and the job I got offered was in Saint-Nazaire where there is a big Airbus plant, so I moved there, then they moved me to Nantes the big town only 65kms from Saint-Nazaire, where there is another Airbus plant, then a year later they moved me back to Saint-Nazaire, where I just built my first house, so now I am here to STAY !Done and fed up with moving all the time... I deserve some stability....Airbus has many plants across France and other European countries (Spain, Germany, England, the USA, and China, mainly).In France there are 4 main sites / plants : in Toulouse, the main plant / HQ, they assemble the Aircraft from big sub-assemblies, that are made in the other plants.Other sites in France are Méaulte in the North of France, then on Atlantic coast there is a plant in Rochefort, another in Saint-Nazaire where I am, and also one in Nantes close to Saint-Nazaire.In Toulouse, the " Final Assembly Line " / FAL as we call it, they build nothing, they only "stitch" together all the big Aircraft chunks that are made in all the other sites.For example in Saint-Nazaire here, we make the front part of the fuselage and the center section as well.In England, they make the wings. In Spain I think the make the rear cone complete with its control surfaces.It's team work ! ;-)I think my post will get moderated !Back to ORCAD... stupid me : there is no point figuring out how to mount floppy images kn DOSBOX.... until I figure out how to make these images in the first place !I guess it might be quicker to just try to install VMware so I can use the FLP images PA0PBZ made....

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 03:48:36 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 05, 2022, 03:42:31 pmSee if you can get it working with the install disk, if so I'll pack the others together and put them somewhere you can get them. I guess I'm not going to post the link here so that will be a PM.Oh by the way, I like the small sidetracks, that's what I miss since the TEA thread got 'corrected'.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2022, 05:52:01 pm
content: Quote from: Vince on September 05, 2022, 03:42:31 pmI don't work here, so we live in our own bubble so to speak. Talking to the farmers does not go beyond cows and the weather so not a lot of help there in learning French. I speak it better then I can understand it, so a text book is not going to help with that.And we moved here to get away from peopleQuote from: Vince on September 05, 2022, 03:42:31 pmIf you mean desert in the sense of not a lot of people, yes absolutely. But if you mean desert like a lot of sand, nah. It is one of the greenest areas in France. Even now with the driest summer since 2003 it is still greenI knew about the airbus being build in different locations, but google only showed Toulouse when I first searched for it. Learned a bit more about it today thenQuote from: Vince on September 05, 2022, 03:42:31 pmOnly when someone complains about it, and we that participate here don't seem to mind. Hell I'm prolonging it myselfBut keep up the good work with OrCAD. Like to see you get it to work.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 10:47:13 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on September 04, 2022, 06:59:20 pmSame here. I was in Paris for a few days when a new lockdown was announced in the NL. So I went to find a hairdresser because my hair needed cutting and I didn't want to cut my own hair -again-. The 4th one wasn't on a lunch break but the lady didn't understand any English and the French lessons I followed in school didn't cover having your hair cut. I just sat down and told her 'coupee' while making sissor movements with my fingers and went ahead under the basic assumptions hair dressers don't let you walk away looking like a complete idiot. It went well.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 10:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on September 05, 2022, 03:49:58 amEspecially nowadays with Windows 10/11. It's no secret that I hate modern Windows with a passion now, but I've experienced first-hand some weird and wonderful problems with no explanation as to the root cause, but a reboot fixes them. Seems to happen more these days than it ever did in the Windows 9x/XP/7 era.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 05:23:08 am
content: Even a moderator is doing off topic(Sorry could not resist)But weird reboot requiring behavior is not exclusive to Windows. I run Ubuntu and Linux Mint, and on occasion have had to reboot because no other action would restore to normal working. Just because it did not see the keyboard or mouse anymore.The days of simple and robust software are long behind us. That was the beauty of just having less then 64KB of memory to work with. No room for errors.

author: 50ShadesOfDirt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 02:46:12 pm
content: Late to the thread (didn't read it all the way thru), but you want to use dosbox-x, which does have a menu bar across the top. Install, run, and get a "dos box", which has the "z" drive in it. "mount" a local folder on your PC as the "C" drive.On the floppies you have for an ORCAD application, they aren't os/bootable, so one trick is to copy all contents of all floppies to a single folder, and run install from that. Or, continue to review dosbox-x, and get your "A" diskette drive setup the way orcad needs it. Another is to see if the setup program is a "batch" file of commands, and just pick it apart and do what the batch file was trying to do from a bunch of floppies.If these *are* still dos diskettes, you'll want to find one of the old dos imaging programs, and preserve copies of each diskette into img format, and work from those. These old programs have tons of mirror sites on the 'net, and you can still find all the old dos utilities.Hope this helps ...

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 07:51:18 pm
content: Thanks for that.I looked in Ubuntu repositories but I can't find dosbox-x, only dosbox vanilla.For now I am trying to get VMware player to work on my Linux box, Ubuntu 16.04.Found these instructions :https://manjaro.site/install-vmware-player-12-5-6-ubuntu-16-04/I downloaded it, it installed fine, however when I started it for the first time, it wants / needs as usual to compile a few kernel modules (though somehow this vital step is not mentioned in the above tutorial..), and that's where things go wrong. ITt fails to do load these modules/drivers. The installer is kind enough to provide a log file of what happened, so I looked in that log file and not much clue as to what happened... it did find the compiler and kernel header files, it seems happy with that, but at the end of the log file when it tries to actually run the compiler to build these modules.... it fails, no details givenSo it's not looking good.That's why I prefer VirtualBox... simply because it is avaiiable in the Ubuntu repositories so the devs have already checked that's it "just works" : you just click "Install"....you wait a few seconds and off you go, you can start the program right away and it just works.... no messing around, no modules to compile.... it's all already done and tested for you.I will persevere, I will persevere............

author: 50ShadesOfDirt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 09:25:00 pm
content: Missed the post that said you were working only on linux ... when I checked the dosbox-x site directly, they do have linux versions (flatpak's, rpm's), so more poking around is needed to sort out the repository/update part (shirley there is a command & switch for thatOnce you get it working, then your dos imaging utilities & such should be available to you as well.https://dosbox-x.com/You may not want to release your dos diskette images, but if you do decide that's an option, there are "history" sites that will take the diskettes in, do all the magic, and make the old releases available to all. One would still have to sort out licensing, but at least the old diskette format wouldn't be the showstopper. These sites offer loads of old applications (and OS's), to keep the history more accessible.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2022, 05:06:48 pm
content: I do use Linux however now I think of it... I do have a Windows XP virtual machine within VirtualBox, so I guess I could investigate that path.... maybe under Windows I can find a little user friendly utility that can make floppy images from files and folders.... worth a shot. Stay tuned !

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2022, 08:40:47 pm
content: OK, been working on the thing all evening long.... now soon 22h30, I am super tired and will go to bed as soon as I am done typing the present message....So what I did :Seeing as I was going nowhere trying to install VMware on Linux, I gave up.Instead I tried to install it inside my WinXp VM... yes, a VM inside a VM... because when you are completely desperate, you are willing to try ANYTHING !!!That didn't work because I could not find an old version of VMware that would run on WinXP. Every time Google pretended it found one and I followed the links it gave me.... I always ended up being served, in reality, the very latest VMware release, somehow.So I went back to basics... seeing all the time I wasted trying to get VMware to work so I can use PA0PBZ's FLP floppy images.... I thought hell it's only fair that I spend at least as much time trying to make images on Linux using the command line. The tutorial I found earlier seemed super complicated and convoluted and complex, a bit scary, and I couldn't even understand if it would actually do what I wanted to do.... but well, I decided to give it at least a try. Glad I did because it worked just fine, I can now make my floppy images, from random files stored on my hard drive, just with basic command line tools that are already installed by default in any Linux setup one might have.So here is what you do : you create a virtual floppy disk image, then you format it for MS-DOS, then create a virtual floppy drive, then you stick your virtual floppy in your virtual drive then.... you can use that virtual floppy like a real one. I could just copy, to start with, the contents of the ORCAD Install disk, onto the virtual floppy.In case anyone is curious, here are the details :Create the virtual floppy disk :$ dd bs=512 count=2880 if=/dev/zero of=imagefile.imgFormat it for MSDOS files:$ mkfs.msdos imagefile.imgCreate the virtual floppy drive to go with it (mount point)$ sudo mkdir /media/floppy1/Insert / mount the disk into the drive :$ sudo mount -o loop floppy.img /media/floppy1/Then I could just copy the ORCAD files from the first / Install disk, onto the virtual floppy :$cp /orcad/install/disk/*.* /media/floppy1Then I eject the floppy :$ sudo umount /media/floppy1/That's it, the image is ready... then rinse and repeat 24 times to do create all the ORCAD disk images (if you want to install every module / component)... which will take some time.... so definitely not now ! I am going to BED !!!So I tried that first hand crafted, cherished floppy image inside my VirtualBox VM and.... it failed miserably, in exactly the same way that the FLP image did before : you can read the contents of the disk just fine, but as soon as you load the ORCAD install program, screen goes black and VM becomes unresponsive. So I guess that means there is nothing wrong with the FLP image, or my own.... and it's just somehow VirtualBox that doesn't like the ORCAD install executable....So, as a quick sanity check, I loaded my image inside my Windows XP Virtualbox VM.... opened an MS-DOS prompt window, navigated to the floppy disc, loaded the install.bat file and... VOILA ! Look at that ! It works now !!!So the problem is not Virtualbox at large... only the MSDOS VM is affected.So, great, now I know how to make my own floppy images from the Linux command line, and I know they work fine ! So tomorrow after work I will spend 2 hours creating all the images !!!Stay tuned !!

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 04:41:16 am
content: Hi Vince,even though I could not cite the commands from the top of my head, they do look familiar and are very basic linux commands.Good job, and success with the rest of the images.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 07:39:15 am
content: So it was as I thought, my .FLP was fine and it is VirtualBox that is the problem here. It's probably simple to correct if we just had an idea what the problem is, I will try to do it on my VirtualBox and see what happens. The better way to create all the images is create one , format it and then copy it as many times as you need changing the destination name each time. That way you only have to create and format one. Even faster would be to just use my images, try the install.flp on your XP VM and see if it works, if it does I will upload all the images I created.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 08:18:00 am
content: Since I didn't have an active MS-DOS VM in VirtualBox I downloaded the HD Image "MS-DOS 6.22 with WIN 3.0" from herehttp://virtualdiskimages.weebly.com/virtualbox.htmland assigned it as the drive. Then I linked the A: drive to the install.flp file and started install.bat:So at least the install works for me, I didn't change any settings in VirtualBox but of course this one is running in Windows 10, not Linux.

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 07:29:19 am
content: Thanks for the link, I did the same as you, and under that Win3.1 VM my home made image file works just fine !Weird... so that gave me an idea... When you tell VB what kind of OS and version you want to create for a new VM... for this Win3.1 VM I naturally chose "Windows" category, then " Win 3.1 " version.And for my MSDOS VM I chose "Other", because MSDOS was not listed upfront, then in "Version", DOS was available, so I chose that. It was the only choice at my disposal that made sense.However, I thought.... Win3.1 is basically still an MSDOS machine isn't it !So...I modified my MSDOS VM settings to instead declare it as a Windows 3.1 VM ! And hey presto it works now !!!So then, I created all 24 disk images at the command line, it was much quicker than I thought.... was pleased with the result.Then I could run the installer and feed it all the disks.It didn't go smoothly at all, messy, buggy, especially the "PLD" component.. that's an understatement.Overall it's a huge mess even once installed, buggy... I think there might be some corrupted files somewhere....At least I managed to load the main menu, and from there the schematic capture component, and place a few symbols....But when I tried to switch to the PCB to lay some tracks, didn't work. Looked very sick.The mouse doesn't work, which doesn't help ! Moving the pointer with the cursor keys works but sooooo slow.I guess I need to load a mouse driver in config.sys or autoexec.bat....Not sure why the PCB thing doesn't work. Now I think of it it can't be corrupted files since I am using the same files that PA0PBZ used to create his FLP images...Not sure if I want to leave it at that, or if I want to spent a couple more hours trying to improve the situation....At any rate it was an interesting exercise, making floppy images in Linux at the command line. It's a useful skill that will no doubt serve me in the future, given how much I like vintage computing...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 08:13:58 am
content: Hi Vince,Yeah, I didn't do anything with it since the install, it's the ride, not the destinationI'm not sure why your PCB editor doesn't work... I did set the VM to Other - MS-DOS even while it was a Windows 3.0 image because I only needed the DOS part of it anyway. Windows works, I played some Reversi gamesFor the mouse download this floppy image and copy the contents to a folder on the C drive, then put VBmouse.exe in the autoexec.bat:https://depot.javispedro.com/vbox/vbados/vbados.flp

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 08:30:41 am
content: Thank you very much for that ! It worked, I now have a working mouse !!!.. however the mouse pointer moves wayyyy too FAST, I can barely control it !Switched from way too slow to way too fast ! I have rich people's problems I think !I will see if maybe one can pass "VBmouse.exe" some parameters to configure how the mouse behaves...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 08:34:11 am
content: Quote from: Vince on September 10, 2022, 08:30:41 amIt's very fast here too, but workable and I could not find any parameters to control it and I wasn't planning to do my next design in Orcad anyway so I didn't bother. But if you find something let me know!

author: Vince
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 08:44:24 am
content: I just tried my chance and ran "VBmouse /help " at the command line, and yeah, it does give me a help screen !... but unfortunately none of the avaiialble parameters have to do with adjusting the sensitivity of the mouse !Oh well...I think I will leave it at that for now ! Thanks people for your help, was fun !!!I will now move on to other activities, plenty of stuff to do, I don't want to waste my entire week-end just on ORCAD...I will give it another try later on, on a real DOS machine, once I get round to reviving my vintage computer. It's in storage now as I don't have space to install it in a permanent fashion, for now.Once that computer gets his own permanent spot somewhere, in a few months hopefully, hence I can actually start playing with it at will..... then I will write ORCAD images onto real floppy disks and install it on that old computer. Will probably be an overall smoother experience.... using real period H/W.