Planet Mars elements conducive to being a giant semiconductor. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ETITsynthesizer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 12:41:11 am
content: I want to point out first that what I am proposing as a theory about Mars is absurd speculation just to keep this in context. I noticed that the planet Mars seems to have a lot of silicon, iron, oxygen with other metals being less common. The calcium could be explained as decomposed bone fragments from organisms or 3D printed machines with internal skeletal structures. I'm not here to talk about bones, calcium, or potassium. I want to know if it is possible to build a computer the size of Mars using silicon, iron, iron oxide with aluminum and titanium also being used in some way. The silicon could be doped with almost anything to vary it's electrical conductivity. That part is obvious. My curiosity is with iron as the main conductor in flying wires, printed circuit boards, 3D printed 3D circuits etc.. what is the feasibility of building all of our 1980's digital computer technology with silicon and iron? Is it possible that maybe on planet Mars the iron was the computer chassis while titanium and aluminum alloy was the main material used in circuits? The conductivity goes up as the temperature goes down. In space, everything is at extremes. Our requirements for high speed sensitive digital electronics would be really abstract and pointless on another planet where all signals are below 1MHz. If the Darwinism of the environment prevented high speed electronics it may not have prevented the development of electronic computing systems or other sentient silicon circuit based life forms. Like all forms of life, they may have destroyed themselves or perhaps they may have been destroyed. Is there enough evidence right now to run out the possibility that computers or electrical circuits or semiconductors existed on Mars? Why is steel or iron never mentioned at all in the construction of PCB's or hook up wire?

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 01:13:40 am
content: Yes, Mars has a lot of the most common elements in the universe, just like Mercury, Venus, Earth, asteroids, and essentially every other rocky body.That doesn't mean everything was a computer.Iron is a shitty conductor and highly prone to corrosion, which is why it isn't commonly used in circuits.Also, on another note...you realize that life doesn't create calcium, right? Or any other elements?The calcium in bones comes from calcium that was already present. Calcium is one of the most common minerals on Earth, and was long before life. When bones grow they aren't creating new calcium.

author: ETITsynthesizer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 03:41:37 am
content: Yes I understand the law of conservation of matter. I understand that calcium is an element. I understand that calcium is a metal even though to the naked eye crushed bone resembles calcium carbonate, crushed shells, broken coral, whiting chalk etc.. very few people think of the silver colored version that actually looks metallic. If the oceans were drained on Earth, and all the Marine life that is composed of large amounts of calcium was to dry up and die, the calcium would remain on the Earth's upper crust. It is actually harder to believe that the calcium in a biosphere would not be totally consumed by life that depends on it for the internal or external structure. Plants can and will move calcium from underground to the surface of a terrestrial biome. Calcium tends to rise to the top as a result of carbon based life existing there. The boring carbon, silica, and other metals would tend to be buried.Your answer about why iron is not used in PCB manufacturing is interesting. Is it possible that something can be done to prevent rust in the manufacturing of PCB with iron traces? Everything is plated or covered in conformal coating anyway. Is there an electrolysis effect that makes it not even remotely practical? To me, this would be a more interesting topic since it is more of a practical question than a far out debate about speculation.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 03:46:25 am
content: Which Ozric Tentacles album are you listening to?

author: Nerull
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 04:43:40 am
content: Iron is, as was stated before, a shitty conductor. It's several times worse than copper, silver, aluminum, or several other commonly available metals. No one wants to make PCBs out of poor conductors.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 05:59:20 am
content: You could compensate with trace width and plating thickness for the poor conductivity of iron. But you would then move on to some of the other reasons it isn't used for PWBs. Like poor solderability. For most alloys a magnetic curve with significant hysteresis will give strange noises on any AC circuits. Like weight. And poorer thermal conductivity than copper.About the only advantage iron has is that it is cheap. But not that much cheaper than copper.

author: ggchab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 08:58:42 am
content: But the idea that some forms of "life" could be built on something else than carbon is worth thinking !And do all forms of intelligence tend to destroy themselves?

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 10:43:44 am
content: QuoteSure. It's also possible that it's a planet sized golf ball build by a race of cosmic, golf obsessed hamsters. That said, until there's any reason to assume so (such as a label), there's no reason to assume so.QuoteWell, since we only mapped a very small portion of the surface, and not with the best instruments, there's no evidence available for the absence of decomposed ancient computers of unknown composition, make and style. There's no evidence of absence of donuts a million years ago on Mars either.QuoteBad parameters for those tasks. Bad conductivity, solderability and a host of other problems. Basically, you try to go with what's best based on a lot of parameters. You COULD probably build electronics using iron instead of copper, with great sacrifices, but there's no reason at all to do so.QuoteSure, you can plate it with things, coat it in whatever you wish, make corrosion resistant alloys.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 11:08:34 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 08, 2018, 05:59:20 amIron should be pretty easily soldered, brazed or welded, on Mars, given the atmosphere as-is.Iron is quite corrosion resistant outside of our astronomically-improbable biosphere. Hmm, I wonder if that includes primordial atmospheres rich in ammonia and sulfides; would sulfides passivate it, or lead to corrosion and embrittlement? Anyway, iron is quite compatible with CO2.Tim

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 05:09:03 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 08, 2018, 11:08:34 amMars is known as the red planet. Widely attributed to oxides of iron. So apparently there is at least one other wildly improbable atmosphere that results in iron oxidation (rust). Murphy says that just about any atmosphere heavy in chlorine, oxygen and probably ammonia isn't going to be good for soldering. But the ignorance human of race on wildly different chemical systems is only exceeded by my own, so who knows.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 05:50:41 pm
content: Yes, I guess that makes sense. Aliens wanting to monitor life on Earth emplace a computer onto Mars. For fun, and because they are super advanced, they make the computer out of the surface material of Mars. When sentient humans come along poking about they become an essential part of the circuit, and turn on the computer. The computer then gives us access to advanced knowledge, or destroys the Earth, one of the two.Actually, like that movie, the name escapes me.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2018, 07:34:57 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 08, 2018, 05:09:03 pmIron oxide occurs naturally in the mantle, and the amount on the surface of Mars is actually quite small. It's merely the most strongly colored component!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/PIA16572-MarsCuriosityRover-RoverSoils-20121203.jpgTim

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 01:10:09 am
content: Quote from: donotdespisethesnake on March 08, 2018, 05:50:41 pmBooks.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 02:18:30 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on March 08, 2018, 07:34:57 pmSo iron oxides are a small percentage of the surface soils. According to the linked graph various oxygen compounds of other elements make up 40 percent of the surface soils. The conclusion relative to using Mars as a computing tool is that all of the materials are already corroded. The uniqueness of our planet is not the presence of oxygen, but the presence of free oxygen. But all of that is just silly speculation. My original comments pertained to using iron on pwbs here on earth. Once you speculate on a technology capable of making a planet sized computer (after travelling interstellar distances) just about any chemistry quibbles are silly. As are guesses about the motivation for doing so, since anyone with that level of technology could presumably make solid components (3D ICs) with feature scales smaller than our best, making any computer bigger than a few cubic meters unimaginably capable by our standards. Going planet size would be more overkill than using a nuke to kill a single bacterium.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2018, 06:26:46 pm
content: Can you please format your responses so your added text is placed outside of the quoted content?If you need to break a quote, add an end-quote tag [ /quote ] then a start-quote tag [ quote ] (without spaces).Tim