Road signs suck. What if we got rid of them all? Or... go open-source? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 02:34:35 pm
content: A recent video has me surprised at social and traffic experimentation in England. No stop-lights, no round about, no electronically aided cross-walks, and pedestrians unsure what to do. If they tried this in US, accident lawyers would have a hay-day. In the interest of Open-Source, would any give a thumbs-up to the suggestion on YT?I posted this:My suggestion would be to improve standard round-about designs with a smaller center island that's crash proof. It would contain an automated crosswalk illumination and alert lighting system (solar powered with city backup). The design for the center "Intelligent island" would have to be 100% OS (public domain and almost maintenance free) so any city/town could point to the drawings and tender-up price wars between companies to quickly install one at the best price. Additionally, a 360 degree surveillance system with 8-16 cameras could be added to help police work. Admittedly, some designs might be ugly, but firms wishing to enhance and beautify designs would still be required to put all drawings in the public domain Collaboration and Open Source can fill the need here. I'm surprised a progressive wouldn't have mentioned it...?

author: Vtile
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 02:44:27 pm
content: I did click this with something totally different in my mind with words "road signs" and "open-source". ... forked roadsigns with odd almost working versions everywhere .....Sorry too deep to reply atm., but your solution sound valid, what comes to true subject.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 02:47:44 pm
content: It seems to make sense to take human nature into account. They've found an effective way of reducing speeding too. Just reduce the road width. Obviously, there's only so much you can do, but it's often much more effective to do something like that, than to have cameras or cops all the time.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:12:06 pm
content: Shared space is unpopular in the UK, except with the transport consultants that get paid to advocate and design them.Some of the shared space advocates are prime example of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome, e.g. repeatedly stating that Indian/etc roads are safe without too many signs - and continue their "misstatements" even after it is pointed out that in those countries the accident rate is >10 times higher than in the UK! Quite stunning.If you want a thoughtful, peer-reviewed and financially disinterested assessment of shared spaces, start with "Shared space: Research, policy and problems. Proceedings of the Institution of Civil Engineers - Transport, Moody, S. and Melia, S."http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/17937/That whole document iswell worth reading; the abstract gives a flavour:Shared space is an approach to street design which minimises demarcations between vehicles and pedestrians. It has become particularly influential in the UK, where a comprehensive study of shared space schemes has informed recently published national guidance to local highway authorities. This article critically examines the claim made in the guidance that it is ‘evidence based’. Primary research reported in the article, examines one of the sites in the ‘official study’, in Ashford, Kent, in greater depth, using video observation and a street survey of pedestrians. The findings show that most pedestrians diverted away from their desire lines, gave way to vehicles in most cases and felt safer under the original road layout. This evidence, and the analysis of the ‘official study’, cast doubt on some aspects of the methodology and its interpretation in the national guidance.The authors conclude that some of the claims made on behalf of shared space have overstated the available evidence, and that caution is needed in implementing shared space schemes, particularly in environments of high traffic flows.Theemphasisedbit is "academic fighting talk".A few of the more notable points are:surveyed 144 people – a useful but not excessive number (considerably more than the 30 used by the conslutants to "declare success"!)91% of women felt anxious (58% of men) (p7)72% are worried about sharing space in Elwick Square (p7)64% would prefer traditional pavements and crossings (p7)80% felt safer before (p7)people who used it the most were more likely to want changes (p7)“I won't let him go [to school] on his own now” (p6)“I know older people that don't come through here” (p6)“I know quite a few people that like to avoid the area” (p7)most pedestrians divert away from their “desire line” (p5). (cf the assertion that 100% of pedestrians moving along desire lines was based on a mere 30 observations! (p3)).17%-24% of the pedestrians ran across the road (p6)There are many many other such examples in the UK, including many where, once the novelty has worn off, inhabitants (not remote designers) want to change back to the original.For the avoidance of doubt, my belief is that in some locations shared spaces can work, but that advocates "conveniently" forget thenecessaryprerequisite conditions.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:22:56 pm
content: We have some of the safest roads in the world. Don’t mess with the formula is my advice

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:39:29 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 03:22:56 pmI'll might take your word for it, but evidence shows 90% of the world is right-handed. Having my most coordinated arm jammed up against a door just makes no sense.. People travel abroad than ever and are more inclined to speak one language than ever, so too the driving and public safety should be globally uniform.Why should an old British throwback to left-handed machine use be thrust upon the UK and its submissive colonies?Break free and buy American cars!(also from Canada - we make ~20% of these beasts)

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:47:59 pm
content: Left sided countries are safest. The reason is the most coordinated hand is available to stick out of the window and give people the finger and wanker fist with. Also it requires more intelligent people to drive a manual with the least dominant hand

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 03:58:06 pm
content: "Open source signs" is an idea, but scarcely a novel one. Here's an example from near the Tillingbourne.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:00:34 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 24, 2017, 03:58:06 pmIsn't that the most imperial sign you ever saw?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:19:51 pm
content: Shared spaces work great in low vehicle traffic areas - like the middle of mostly pedestrian shopping centres.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:33:18 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 03:47:59 pmOver here, we get helicopter police chases now and then. I think round about's slow those down a lot. Maybe some kind of Open-Source standard light/sound alert on high-speed approach (ie: fire/police/bandit) could alert drivers and pedestrians?

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 04:55:33 pm
content: I don't mind driving through the the shared space at Poynton as there's still a very clear delineation of pedestrians and cars and the middle of the road. It flows well and its clear where people are and where they are heading.The one in Kensington on Exhibition Road by the Museum is a nightmare.Cars heading towards me on my side of the road as there's nothing to indicate its actually two way traffic or where their side of the road is.Due to the many museums and few residential buildings the pedestrians are invariably tourists with their usual suicidal tendencies and I've twice been yelled at for driving down a pedestrianised area by ignoramuses. Had a few car haters walking around randomly deliberately holding up the traffic too.This google streetview image shows a row of parked cars .. Sometimes the cars are parked on the driving side (and pavement) and traffic is heading up/down the other side of the posts where the cars are parked.After a short time they end up either hitting a bench or swerving madly.I appreciate the idea is "shared space" with everyone having equal right everywhere but this has been taken to an extreme and is far from optimal for safety and traffic flow.Google Streetview for Exhibition Road

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 05:18:13 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 03:47:59 pm*digs out the spare flameproof suit and passes it over*

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 05:20:40 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on November 24, 2017, 04:55:33 pmI've had a parking ticket on exhibition road because you can't see the bloody parking spaces properly when it rains (appealed it and won), Poynton was also bloody confusing when it was first done and still catches a *lot* of people out who don't know the area. Shared space is a PITA

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 06:15:36 pm
content: Quote from: Avacee on November 24, 2017, 04:55:33 pmNot for blind people - longstick users and guide dogs rely on following the kerb. Poynton (and other shared space schemes) are no-go exclusion zones for them.At night and in the rain, there is insufficient delineation; see photos. Why is that lampost leaning? Did it merge with a car?8% of men are colour blind, and it is far less visible to them than a good old-fashioned kerb.I notice the majority of cyclists in Poyntonchooseto cycle (illegally?) on the pavement with pedestrians, rather than mixing it with busses and artics. As my daughter sagely noted, cyclists prefer to be on the road and only cycle on the pavement when they feel afraid on the road.I'd love to see how well/badly autonomous vehicles navigate "reduced demarcation zones"!In Byng Place (London) the reduced demarcation zone doesn't reduce speed, pedestrians start running when cars approachQuoteMany denizens disagree; many think there's been little improvement largely because the junction is congested. For example: Poynton residents' views:http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Poynton-Regenerated/30362/When I first went through there (before I knew anything about shared spaces), the lack of road direction signsatthe junction meant I had to stop and read a map; the people behind me were very patientQuoteQuite; that's the problem!Safety in shared spacesdependson driversrecognisingthe danger. But what if the driver is tired, distracted by a passenger, DUI, testosterone enhanced, or just plain incompetent. Roads should be designed based on predictable human failings. Presuming that people will always drive well is a recipe for disaster.Source of one of the pictureshttp://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/local-news/poynton-shop-crash-ignites-new-2528455Accidents by Design: The (Lord) Holmes (of Richmond) Report on “shared space” in the United Kingdomhttp://chrisholmes.co.uk/news/accidents-by-design-the-holmes-report-into-shared-space/Balanced, nuanced, broadly positive w.r.t shared spaces, and I agree with most of it. But read the last three paragraphs and consider the effect on local car insurance premiums:http://www.urbanmovement.co.uk/2/post/2013/06/low-speed-steady-flow-in-poynton-oli-davey.htmlTransparent up-front agenda, but contains pointers to solid useful information that shouldn't be ignored.http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/the-delusion-of-shared-space-as-an-urban-transport-panacea/

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 07:35:23 pm
content: That’s quite damning and rightfully so. Need to keep all the classes of dumbasses away from each other. They only have to deal with their own conceptual space then.Literally my car has been knocked three times this week. Massive dent in the side door from someone reversing into a parking space on the other side of the road. A cyclist hit driver side mirror and fell off when I was parked and he misjudged going round the speed bump in the middle of the road. And I was parked outside the kebab shop and someone fell on it because they were drunk.If you put those three dumbasses in the same space then it’s just going to be Armageddon.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 08:29:18 pm
content: QuoteThat or accelerated evolution and Darwin awards.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 08:41:37 pm
content: I like your line of thinking

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 09:05:36 pm
content: We have one famous roundabout where there are no lanes. It's about three/four lanes wide, and it has 6 exits.It's here. It's not exactly a "shared space" these only exist in city centers. They try to divert you around city centers as much as possible.Shared spaces are absolutely horrible at night.Anyway, this roundabout is a highly stressful driving experience for beginners and occasional drivers. Especially during rush hour.Observe:https://youtu.be/-uC-ZpjrU80?t=83

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 09:17:43 pm
content: Lanes doesn't always help. Look at what we created with lanes!Hemel Hempstead:https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7445085,-0.4733123,220a,35y,39.44t/data=!3m1!1e3Swindon:https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5618552,-1.7716363,132a,35y,39.45t/data=!3m1!1e3The latter is a completely fucked up mess.

author: A Hellene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 09:33:08 pm
content: Well, this is what came to my mind by reading aboutroad signs that suck...Yet, the funny thing is that I do not think that they do suck that much really; not in their present condition!...-George

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 09:59:29 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 07:35:23 pm(There's muchmuchevidence against shared spaces. I omitted in the interests of brevity and the readers' sanity).That hasrepeatedlybeen shown to be theworkablepreference of the various types of road users. That is especially apparent in the Netherlands.As to why shared space proponents have mutated the name into various alternatives, e.g. "reduced demarcation zones", you might think it was because they realised that googling for "shared space" brought up too many negative hits. I could not possibly comment.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 10:08:34 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 09:17:43 pmCuriously I have stumbled into those without warning, just as I did into the shared space scheme in Poynton. Aquick glanceat the road signs near the roundabout's entrance was sufficient to enable me to easily and simply navigate them.The Poynton scheme was, and continues to be, an unpleasant experience since you are never quite sure what the other users and pedestrians are going to do. Now shared space zealots mutter "very dangerous is safe", and while there is a pleasing libertarian sound to that, it doesn't account for the distracted/incompetent drives/cyclists/pedestrians behaviour.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 10:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on November 24, 2017, 10:08:34 pmLikewise, but as the "bell curve" neatly illustrates, 50% of people are likely below average. It also only takes one idiot to sink a ship and take everyone with it

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 10:52:47 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 24, 2017, 10:12:19 pmYes indeed, except it is quite possible to have a "Lake Woebegon" population. Consider test results of 8,8,8,8,7; 80% are above average. Or, for that matter, corporate salaries of 10k, 10k, 10k, 10k, 460k; the average salary is 100k.(Yes, I read Darryl Huff's classic "How to lie with statistics" as a kid)

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 11:40:56 pm
content: This is an example of open-source, AKA chaos...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2017, 11:59:21 pm
content: Perhaps for a time non-autonomous cars will coexist with autonomous cars in some highways, but we should expect that once roads start being converted in large numbers to autonomous driving, its as likely as not that autonomous control will soon be required to use them. People in poor countries will likely get great deals on used cars, when people in the rich countries change over.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2017, 01:38:32 am
content: I'd say the current system of signs and stop lights works, but with better technology available than when these systems were first thought up, I think it could probably be improved. Like stop light systems that learn/adapt to traffic flow, and sync together to create better traffic flow. Also, some that convert into stop signs at times of the day when there is less traffic.In fact simple law changes could help. Make it legal to go through a red light if you stopped, there is no other traffic around, and you looked both ways. Basically, when you are at a red light and you are the only person at the intersection, you treat it like a stop sign. This could be a very simple law change that would improve traffic flow. Things like that could help a lot.But there is one thing that would rule everything... SOLAR FREAKING ROADWAYS!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 03:46:51 am
content: Years ago, when I spent some time in England, I found one roundabout with ahillin the middle of it.Nice, if you liked living dangerously!The "shared space" idea, is actually what many of my generation of Australians had as a "de facto" system.Many roads in non urban areas didn't have "footpaths" (as we called them back then), alongside the roadway, so the default was to walk along the verge, or when that was not possible, walk on the roadway, facing oncoming traffic.This meant walking along the right hand edge of the paved roadway.When a car approached, you were meant to step off the road, & if you couldn't safely continue your walk there, stop until the vehicle had passed you.With this method, you were much more likely to see the car, or for them to see you.We knew that it is much easier for a pedestrian to see a car, than vice versa, especially at night.Today, many people don't understand why we did this, as they assume they have the absolute right to walk on any part of the road they may desire to.When someone gets hit by a car, they are surprised!!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2017, 07:07:21 am
content: Your anecdotes about Australia touch on two key points.First, the UK Department for Transport notes that pedestrians use share spaces as their proponents claim,providedthere are fewer than 100 vehicles/hour. Unfortunately shared space zealots are now claiming they should be installed in much higher traffic densities.Secondly, driver expectations. Drivers subconsciously pick up clues about how to behave by recognising familiar clues, e.g. kerbs and median white lines. When absent, driver don't behave sensibly, e.g.absently mindedlycrossing onto pavements and crossing median lines into oncoming traffic. The shared space mantra "very dangerous is safe" relies on drivers recognising danger i.e.theabsenceof familiar features. It manifestly fails important cases.

author: nes999
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 05:24:13 pm
content: As a sign maker I dont like the idea of zero signs. I like eating and don't look good standing in the unemployment lines!We just recently got 2 roundabouts in my area. Quick question, is there supposed to be decoration the center and along the edges of a round about? Ours is designed in such away you can see a car until its 1-1.5 car lengths away from you. I love the idea but I feel like at least a partial line of sight would greatly increase efficiency.Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

author: nes999
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 05:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on November 25, 2017, 01:38:32 amI can't speak of other countries but the US has been doing that for along time. In my area when the High school lets out the traffic lights giving the green light from the school additional time, thus helping flow traffic from the school.Many of our traffic lights have cameras that read traffic and if no one is coming the other direction it will automatically change. This is really nice so you don't end up waiting at a stop light when no one is around.In IL, we have a law where if you are stopped at a red light for x amount time you are allowed to go assuming it is safe to do so. This is supposed to be used for I'd the traffic signal doesnt pick you up. However it sometines get used as a way to move faster.Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 07:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: nes999 on November 30, 2017, 05:24:13 pmI can't vouch for the numbers but apparently it's safer to block oncoming traffic's view of a roundabout until you're actually at the entry point, the reasoning is that if you can't see oncoming traffic and you know there's a junction ahead you're less likely to take a chance and misjudge it.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2017, 11:13:59 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 30, 2017, 07:12:52 pmIn most roundabouts I've seen & driven through, in Oz, the UK, & Ireland, a significant percentage of people just come barging through, so that if you can't see them, they will crash into you!We have a "mini-roundabout" at the end of our street where, if you give way to one car in the roundabout, you are stuck there, as a "train" of cars charge through, with only a metre or two between them.They justify this as their being "on your right", although that isn't the rule in roundabouts, despite what "their old grandaddy told them back in 1905"!One thing I've never got my mind round, is that in some places, traffic lights go amber in both directions during their cycle.A "chancer" on each road going through on the amber...

author: 6PTsocket
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 07:05:49 am
content: I thought the whole idea of doing away with traffic signals was to force people to take responsibiliy.for their driving. Under the signal system people cede their resposibility to the signals. It just turned green so I am going while the fellow in the cross road thinks I can squeeze through this changing light. CRASH!! With no signals both drivers are forced to look around and see if it is safe to cross the intersection. As for roundabouts (traffic circles in the US), my state New Jersey has done away with many of them in favor of jug handles and traffic signals. I think it is a good move, i find them very stressful.Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 08:31:32 am
content: Quote from: 6PTsocket on January 16, 2018, 07:05:49 amThe whole concept relies on drivers being competent and alert. Unfortunately that isn't always the case: you shouldn't wear dogmatic rose-tinted spectacles where other people's safety is concerned.You must consider typical human behaviour. Consider these common driver failures which endangerotherpeople:driver adjusting audio systemdriver chatting to passengersdriver using cellphonesdriver drunk, or otherwise under the influencedriver deliberately being reckless due to excess testosterone or showing offdriver just inexplicably stupidAdditionally, drivers and pedestrians rely on subliminal cues when driving. Examples:In my local city they kept the kerb but had the same cobbled surface for the pavement and footway. Many pedestrians walked out in front of 7.5 ton busses without looking. And that was before the smartphone "head down" effect!In my local village there are many parked cars on a narrow road, so drivers have to cross the centreline. That used to be done with a minimum of fuss, with cars going in each direction without problems. Now the median white line has been removed. Consequently drivers aren't sure (or don't even realise) where they are on the road (especially at night), and don't notice how far they are across the road. Consequently I have had to do several emergency stops where before I never had to do any.There are several examples where,after experience and time to get used to new shared spaces, the inhabitants want to revert to the old ways. And in some places they are doing just that.Summary: while there are, arguably, too many road signs, throwing them all out would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater - i.e. unbalanced.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 08:58:48 am
content: How about no. How about, there is a part where cars go, there is a part, where pedestrians go. Maybe there is a part for cyclists, if there isnt, then GTFO cyclist from that road. How about no magic roundabouts. How about no roads like this:I have set up my GPS in my car to permanently avoid some roads. Most of them are rondabouts (with 6 lanes, and random shit in it), and shared spaces.Idiot road designers think about drivers as this is some kind of a social experiments. Bugger off. Give me proper roads, and roads to avoid towns and cities. I pay my taxes for that.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 09:58:24 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 16, 2018, 08:58:48 amNo to what?(Context can be included via the "quote" button; too many people forget that)

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 10:02:35 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 16, 2018, 08:58:48 amThe two "magic roundabouts" I've bumbled into were a simple delight to use.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Swindon/@51.5629239,-1.7720195,181m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4871444f3ddbe4e5:0xa556bf37e9c5949a!8m2!3d51.5557739!4d-1.7797176https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hemel+Hempstead/@51.7463753,-0.4736289,180m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487640d05cd71ac1:0xf0e07f1fcfdff2b2!8m2!3d51.753241!4d-0.448632

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 10:15:40 am
content: Hemel one is a dick on a Saturday night. It's got a combination of Uber drivers, local taxi drivers, idiots dropping people off and drunken zombies navigating it.Interestingly though, I went to Guildford last week and I noticed that every single protective fence near roundabouts, crossings etc was mangled. Literally every one has had a car pile through it.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 10:17:10 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on January 16, 2018, 09:58:24 amThe topic's title is a question...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 12:16:21 pm
content: choose life!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 12:25:38 pm
content: Quote from: 6PTsocket on January 16, 2018, 07:05:49 amThe hell you say. Drivers do not cede their responsibility to anything.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 01:17:11 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 16, 2018, 10:15:40 amOuch. Just as well they hit that metalwork rather than other metalwork containing "innocent third parties".In Sicily, where the signs are few and people behave as if everywhere is a shared space, a numerical majority of the cars have significant bodywork damage - up to and including missing front wings!Shared space zealots don't like to think about that, and some idiots even claim that it is a great idea because it works in India. They can't even be bothered to look up the accident stats, which are 10-20 times worse than here.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2018, 01:52:09 pm
content: Couldn't agree more.Here's 30 minutes of India: