Self-Service Checkout Supermarkets - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 12:52:21 pm
content: in Australia Self-checkout is still been added to more retailers like supermarketswill the supermarkets in Australia become vending machine warehouse arcades.but there is speculation that Self-checkout has reached its Limit.the story is that some big box retailers are experiencing more shoplifting because of Self-ServiceIMO adding more AI to a Self-Service Checkout will not stop the shoplifting. may even drive customers away from a business.https://www.servelegal.co.uk/news/shoppers-admit-to-thefthttps://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/sad-reason-aussie-supermarket-axing-self-serve-checkouts-032505141.htmlhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14358669/rise-self-checkout-thieves-shoppers-admit-failing-scan.html

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:02:43 pm
content: My experience is self-service is only quicker when I purchase a small number of items.Regarding shop-lifting, the store accepts there will be more theft, but it's its still a net saving on staffing costs and is baked into their calculations.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:07:00 pm
content: Over here many shops with self-service checkouts have an employee overseeing the checkouts to help customers and prevent theft.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:11:10 pm
content: I prefer self-service myself. Recently there was a documentary on the BBC about the increase in shoplifting because of these machines though. They do have CCTV and the like but it ultimately doesn't matter because the police won't prosecute most petty thefts until they become part of a larger pattern. The stores are complaining about the police not doing enough but I would argue that commercial matters like that need to be dealt with by stores staffing properly, either a security guard or having more people watching over the self service tills.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 30, 2025, 01:07:00 pmthey need to be there anyway in case something doesn't scan or to approve when someone is buying things that are age restricted

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:52:57 pm
content: A theoretical way to prevent criminals from shoplifting is to make it legal. California effectively tried that, and it didn't work. It is still laxly prosecuted. In my experience, it's generally quicker. There are checkers to observe, but I am sure some tricky individuals get around that. They know they will not be stopped by store personnel when they skip.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:59:25 pm
content: until they pay me for doing the cashiers job i'll keep on avoiding them.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 02:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 30, 2025, 01:07:00 pmThat's true here, but only one person is required for 10 checkouts, which is a huge saving.Quote from: tom66 on June 30, 2025, 01:11:10 pmThe police have greater priorities, such as going after those committing minor traffic offenses and people who say stupid things online. It's easier to catch them, there's a much lower risk of a violent conflict and it looks good on the crimes solved statistics.There's also a limit to what security guards can do. For a start, they risk personal injury claims from those they apprehend and secondly the shop has a duty of care to the security guards, who can't be put at too much risk.Quote from: jpanhalt on June 30, 2025, 01:52:57 pmThe Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, which classifies shoplifting of items valued at £200 or less as a summary offense hasn't helped matters. Stricter penalties for theft of even low value items would be a greater deterrent.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 02:02:37 pm
content: When I was in San Fran I saw at least three instances of shoplifting in a single week at the same Target when I visited for supplies etc. Almost anything worth more than $10 was locked up behind cases, this included bizarre things like underwear and washing powder. Laptops and phones were not on display at all, not even in locked cabinets. The only thing they had on display in the electronics area were larger TVs. It was surreal - you can't just let shoplifters get away with it because that's what happens if you do. But there's a middle ground between that and then not clogging up the courts with endless petty crimes. Not sure how to balance the two.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 02:10:15 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 30, 2025, 02:02:37 pmI don't understand why the heck California has implemented such a stupid policy.Going harder will clock up the courts, but it will be temporary. One people realise they won't get away with it, crime will fall and fewer people with be in court. In the UK, not going after people who've not paid their TV licence, or because they've said somethings stupid online, would also help free up the courts' time.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 02:23:43 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 30, 2025, 02:10:15 pmYeah, maybe. Though in the UK at least, some courts are on a 24 month backlog, even for serious crimes. So there is an obvious incentive from those on high to avoid adding to it. Adding more resource isn't trivial given it takes decades to turn a law student into a judge. Maybe the police here need to be better at issuing 'plea bargains' like they do in the US. In the UK at least that still requires the defendant to turn up to court and plead guilty, which means they at the very least need about 15 minutes of court time, plus a solicitor, other staff... all has to be paid for.

author: Fire Doger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 02:32:18 pm
content: For products that don't have barcode I always choose the cheapest from the 1st page of the list.It's not my job to figure out the baguette type or if the apple is from place A or B. If it looks like apple then it's an apple

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 03:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 30, 2025, 01:02:43 pmYep. Ditto. And that's obvious. Cashiers are trained professionals. They can pass many more items per minute than we can ever do.As a consumer, that self-service stuff annoys me to no end. I don't want to do the shop's work for free.Quote from: Zero999 on June 30, 2025, 01:02:43 pmExactly.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 03:34:05 pm
content: Quoteyep,any delay is down to certain customers who must put each individual item into its own bag whilst chatting to the cashier and act all surprised they need to pay before searching through all there bags to find a card that might work

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:16:43 pm
content: While cashiers are faster at scanning, they rarely give a shit about order of stuff, so sometimes you end up with fragile items being scanned first, so you can't bag stuff until heavy items are scanned. This is extremely annoying.But also, I once entered the wrong number for a weighted item in Sprouts, and self checkout attendant jumped at me faster than I could press a button to retry. Clearly they are watching this stuff pretty closely.I have a local store that enables self checkout only after certain time, probably depending on availability of people watching over them. I either shop elsewhere most of the time, or just wait for a time I know is safe. I really don't care to interact with cashiers.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 30, 2025, 05:16:43 pm.. put the heavy stuff on the belt first?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:21:22 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on June 30, 2025, 05:19:04 pmI tried, but you can't take up all the belt since there are people behind, so they will necessarily bunch up.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:23:14 pm
content: just chuck it all back in the trolley/basket and use either the bagging area to sort stuff out.no bagging area use an unopened checkout.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:25:26 pm
content: Or I can just scan and bag stuff in the order I want. It is fine to have an option either way, but I personally would avoid places without self checkout. And from what I can see, a lot of people use them and likely minority use them for theft.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:36:43 pm
content: I go for the shortest line, which is often the self checkout. The tendency of people with large orders to go to the staffed checkouts also contributes to self check being faster.Where I am some stores are pulling back on self checkout because their actual shoplifting losses exceeded the savings from reduced staff. Others are going for locking everything away. I don't know how that will work out for them. It causes me to avoid them if at all possible, either going to another store or shopping on line. If there are enough like me they will have to try something different.Here in the US the courts are largely backed up because of the extreme care that is taken to protect everyone's rights and because their is no room for more in the places of incarceration. Criminals and their lawyers are well aware of the rights issue and use every possible stratagem to delay or avoid conviction. This is all based on the theory that it is better to let X criminals go free than it is to convict an innocent man. X is not specified, and no one really knows the ratio of innocent convictions to escaping criminals, but perhaps the balance has shifted a bit too far.The lack of sufficient jail facilities has multiple causes, in my opinion two principal ones dominate. First, criminalization of too many things. England had a problem of this type when being in debt was a crime, forced shipping "criminals" off to foreign lands. The second is again rights related. Jails here are required to have many comforts that prior generations didn't have. It is costly to provide all of these and taxpayers have balked at the bill.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:43:55 pm
content: To free up extra resources for police/courts to deal with the epidemic of shop lifting I would strongly advocate for the decriminalising of drug possession for PERSONAL use. I understand that this is a contentious issue but what good does the current "war on drugs" do?

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:47:55 pm
content: I don't like standing in checkout lines. When I must, I modify the shortest-line algorithm to compensate for women with very large purses. They can take over 4 times as long as someone who realized a credit card or wallet will be needed before getting in line. Ever watch one dig through that black hole bag trying to find an elusive wallet?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 06:12:49 pm
content: Also, have you noticed that electronic payment (card or phone) takes longer than using currency?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 06:47:16 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 30, 2025, 03:23:40 pmThat depends entirely on their training. In most supermarkets, cashiers seems to have no training at all and work extremely slow. In the NL there is only 1 supermarket chain (the largest one) which trains the cashiers to work quickly. But otherwise you are much better off using the self-service checkouts. I'll admit that I wasn't very keen on using the self-service checkouts at first but nowadays I use them wherever they are available because in most cases it is quicker.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 07:27:12 pm
content: Quote from: paul cotter on June 30, 2025, 05:43:55 pmI'm ambivalent when it comes to drugs. One the one hand the state shouldn't tell adults what they can do, but legalising will make it more socially acceptable. I would advocate not chasing crimes which have little impact on the economy and victims first.Quote from: SiliconWizard on June 30, 2025, 03:23:40 pmTo elaborate more. Staffed checkouts tend to have longer queues, which makes them slower when I only buy a few items.Self-service checkouts, generally have shorter queues, but as you say, it takes longer to scan the items yourself. The ones where I live have no conveyor so it's not easy to put it back in the trolley, without losing track of what I've scanned. Everything has to be unloaded from the trolley/basket, scanned and and placed in a bag or box. I doubt I could do a large shop at a self-service checkout and it would take a heck of a long time.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 07:43:50 pm
content: Late to thread.I never use any self-checkouts. Hate 'em.Yes, I'll admit it: there's a bit of a Luddite in me.I prefer the old-school methods which work, and aren't designed to throw people out of jobs.So there.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 07:57:33 pm
content: I am the luddite par excellance- no smartphone, no social media and still use an avo8(I do have a digital meter for use when necessary). I started using the self service checkouts when covid struck to avoid as much human contact as possible. Being an old fogey, 73 in two months, I felt at risk. I found them easy to use and often quicker so I have stuck with them despite being a luddite.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:13:09 pm
content: For Americans who try to avoid self-checkout, try shopping at Walmart and Meijer more. There are days with no human checkers available. Probably best appreciated by rural Americans and those East of Michigan.Walmart unabashedly copied the Meijer's business model from 30 years earlier. They are virtually identical. The one big difference is Walmart's "Everyday low prices" vs. Meijer's sale prices that can be quite a bit lower. Another trick is to shop early at WM and check meat outdates. I've gotten Wagu steaks, probably grade 5, regularly $27/#, for about $10/#. They are discounted steeply on the expiration date. Some people pay extra for aged beef. I don't. They are cryo packed from wherever.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:15:14 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on June 30, 2025, 08:13:09 pmI'm proud to say that I've never set foot in a Walmart, and never will.Really proud. And I live in a rural area where everyone else goes there.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:24:47 pm
content: Sam Walton shopped at Walmart and got cheap haircuts from a local barber he had gone to for decades. Being able to afford something doesn't mean you should waste money. There's an Aldi's across the street from my Oberlin WM. I rarely go there. The hardest part of shopping at WM in Oberlin is Oberlin.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:28:59 pm
content: Oh, I get it why everyone else 'round here goes to Walmart: it's $cheap$.I just hate their business model. So I will never go there.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 09:06:30 pm
content: Quote from: madires on June 30, 2025, 01:07:00 pmSame in the US, And in many stores there is a camera located directly above the checkout counter that records every movement that you make and every item in your cart and on the checkout counter. In one of the stores that I frequent, if there isanyproblem at check out they show you the live feed on the checkout display so that there's no doubt to the purchaser that they're being monitored. The same stores has cameras and displays in every aisle and they track you as you walk down the aisle and display the image on the monitor.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 09:09:12 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 30, 2025, 07:27:12 pmI don't see why it should be slow. When you use a trolley, you'll need to pack stuff in your bag anyway. Either place the items on the table next to the self checkout or pack the items in your bags directly after scanning. The latter is quicker but makes it harder for a shop employee to do a spot check.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 09:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on June 30, 2025, 08:13:09 pmSelf checkout is exactly why I never shop at the local Aldi's any more. Their self checkouts never work and there is never anyone at either of the two manned checkouts. I've left my items on the counter a good number times and walked out and gone to the Publix supermarket. The prices are higher but they always have great service.The local Super Walmart only has six automated checkout counters but has about fifteen manned counters. Maybe they're just behind the times.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 09:49:10 pm
content: Quotemeanwhile the uk version of walmart (they still own a share), asda, recently announced they wont be adding anymore self service tills

author: temperance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 11:37:34 pm
content: Those self-service checkouts will disappear sooner or later. Some manager from I don't know which mall said in the news some time ago that the percentage of stolen goods has increased dramatically after the self-service checkouts were put into service.Here in the Action store, when they installed this, they left one normal checkout in operation. But last time I was there they seem to have gone back to operating two normal checkouts and the self self-service was closed.I've been chosen a few times now for a check/test. Although I understand that, I see find it pretty irritating. You then have all the people around staring at you like: LOOK, LOOK they got him. Shall we start to film this?Tip for those who like to do some shoplifting. I asked why I was chosen again. They answered me that I scanned my goods very fast and that raises an alarm...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 12:39:26 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on June 30, 2025, 06:12:49 pmTakes about 5s to tap here. Or do you mean there is a delay before it lets you do that as it sets something up?Almost no self checkouts here accept cash any more, too much maintenance.Quote from: temperance on June 30, 2025, 11:37:34 pmSelf checkout will never go away, sorry. Maybe certain stores and locations will but in general unlikely.Shrinkage is average 3-4% self checkout compared to 1% cashier. I don't know if that is enough to cover cashiers wages or not.https://capitaloneshopping.com/research/self-checkout-statistics/

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 01:12:25 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on June 30, 2025, 06:12:49 pmNo way, unless it's someone who can't find their card, or has five cards and no money on any of them, or can't remember their PIN or whatever.By the time the cashier has entered the price on the POS terminal I've double-clicked the side button on my watch and am ready to go. I hold it up to the reader, it beeps, I wait the mabye two seconds for it to say "Approved" and I'm already walking away.It takes FAR longer for a cashier to count change.The funniest was when I was working at Samsung in 2015 or so and they gave us pre-production phones with a new system that modulated a magnetic field to imitate swiping the magstrip on a card. We were asked to use them in as many different shops with as many different readers as possible, and note the model of each and whether it worked or not. I got soo much of "I'm sorry sir, we don't support PayWave" and I'm be "Uhh .. do you mind if I try anyway?". And then they'd be shocked when it worked.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 04:12:20 am
content: Supermarkets that are still using self-checkout need to wander over to Aldi to see how it is done.They use a minimal number of checkers (often just one) but they're blazing fast and just put your items back in the cart. Then you go over to a designated place and bag them yourself. Credit card or phone tap payment takes 5 seconds.

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 05:25:50 am
content: Quote from: themadhippy on June 30, 2025, 01:59:25 pmI also value my time - if it's 1 minute self checkout vs. 10 minutes waiting in the line, there is just no reason to wait in line. And no, they are not cutting down on employees, I have seen the same faces for many years in my Lidl; and the multiple self-checkouts are usually not in use by customers anyway.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 06:21:24 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 01, 2025, 04:12:20 amThe exact same Aldi experience we have in Oz.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 07:50:39 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 30, 2025, 09:09:12 pmWith a staffed checkout, someone else scans the items, whilst I pack and there's a conveyor which moves everything. It's much faster than having to scan myself, move the items manually and pack them.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 10:13:15 am
content: Here, in addition to self-service checkout with a fixed barcode (and credit-card) readers, started to appear also some portable 'gun' readers, so customers can tag the products immediately when they put them in their shopping cart and once at the checkout they need only to let the payment device to read the already-scanned items, and pay (if no assistance is otherwise needed).

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 10:37:34 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on July 01, 2025, 07:50:39 amYes, everyone agrees that once you get to the front of the queue, a human staff member is faster than scanning things yourself.The issue is that the typical situation, at least here in New Zealand, is a choice between two human checkout operators with 5-10 people with absolutely full trolleys in each queue, or a dozen or so self-service checkout machines with little or no queue of people with 1 or 5 or 10 items each.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 10:52:31 am
content: Quote from: bitwelder on July 01, 2025, 10:13:15 amYes, at Albert Heijn you take a scanner from the wall and scan while shopping. Then you put the scanner back and pay.Sometime you can get checked, but I almost never have this.The other stores do not have it implemented as smooth so I rarely use it there if possible.IKEA is the worst, there is no choice. They make you scan everything, then it says "Did your forget Skogsflärd?", no, and then they come and scan everything again to check youreallydidn't forget the optional accessory to something.Goes almost twice as slow and the queues are long!

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 11:21:45 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on July 01, 2025, 10:52:31 amhere in some shops you can just use an app on your phone

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 01:25:47 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on July 01, 2025, 05:25:50 amThe Lidl is notoriously understaffed, but its also a budget supermarket. When I go to my Lidl, they have no self checkout, and I'm still number >8 in the queue. When I go to Jumbo or Albert Heijn (the more premium supermarkets), I'm rarely beyond #2 or 3.I almost never use self checkout, because besides "doing the job of the cashier", you only need to come across a bad manager to escalate a scanning mistake up to a criminal offense. I have heard multiple stories of this happening, and I think its inexcusable to first lure customers into "save time with self scan", then potentially cut down on employees, and finally punish customers that make a honest mistake.Not to mention the checks can also go wrong and waste a ton of time. I once had my groceries fit together like a 3D Tetris game in a plastic bag. Wanted to pay, but an employee had to scan 3 items to check. Obviously they don't take the stuff on top, so by juggling items on top they accidentally scanned the same item twice. This meant the whole cart had to be rescanned. I stepped back and said good luck, not my fault lol.I think I ended up walking out with a 2 EUR lower bill, and a much less neatly packed shopping bag. At least they said sorry for the inconvenience.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 01:49:34 pm
content: Quotehere lidl and aldi are pretty quick at opening another till if theirs more than 3 or 4 people cuing.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 01:55:45 pm
content: Personally, when it comes to a small number of items (i.e. handbasket, rather than trolley), I prefer to use self-checkout. There's generally no queue for one whenever I'm out shopping, and whilst there's the "why should I do their job" argument, there's also the "why would I waste my time in a queue, rather than just get it done and get out" one, and the latter wins out where I'm concerned.The contraindication in the UK, is always any purchase that includes an age-restricted item e.g. alcohol. This requires manual verification by a member of staff and, at least in my local Co-op Store, that means trying to attract the attention of someone working on the shop floor rather than a dedicated self-scan monitor. Probably still faster, on average, than the traditional queue but it feels like a complete PITA.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 01:55:48 pm
content: some place have began to remove the self service .... they have found people come less often,I myself found some store "self service" very nagging and frustrating, i simply don't go there anymore, some a so sensitive, you get a lot of useless talk and delays

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 02:22:11 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on July 01, 2025, 10:52:31 amAgree that IKEA checkout is the worst, ever. Even worse is their business model that prevents sales. If they don’t have something in stock, you cannot buy it. Even when they know it will be there next Tuesday. Nope. You have to sign up for an email alert, wait until it shows up in stock at the store and then either show up at the store or buy it online for later pickup that has to be scheduled to the day and hour. Yeah. Just plain dum.Aldi and Lidi checkout in the US is about is good as self checkout can be - but only if the hand held scanner works. Elimination of self-checkout appears to areas specific to where theft is high. My local Home Depot has reorganized the self check out area to prevent access to the exit doors so you cannot make a run for the open door with a cart full of unpaid merchandise. Re-organization of high value areas like tools is being done as well with tools having to be paid for separately in a closed off area. Other than those obvious tweaks, it’s self check for the win in suburban Philadelphia.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 02:34:09 pm
content: IKEA treats you as a criminal by default. After you scanned your items the terminals asks "Have you scanned everything?", you press Yes, it says "Are you sure?", you press Yes again, and it goes to displaying a message that "theft is a crime" type of thing. It is infuriating. Stupid efking IKEA, whish your kids treated you that way.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 03:36:51 pm
content: I have never used IKEA but if I was on the receiving end of that kind of shit I would not return.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 03:44:53 pm
content: If it's a genuinely honest mistake, then you're not guilty of theft, which requires you to intentionally and permanently deprive someone of their property. If you purchase a lot of items and one of them doesn't scan properly, then you shouldn't be charged, since the shop will have CCTV of you trying to scan the item. It's even less likely for you to be prosecuted if you've taken a lower value item and paid for the more expensive ones. At the most, you'll have to pay for the item you've taken, which is fair.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 04:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 30, 2025, 01:11:10 pmI agree with the stores. Literally the only job of the police is to stop crime. Sanctions to the criminals must cover the expenses of the police force; for example, larger fines. If these "pesky shoplifters" are unable to pay fines, put them in coal mines. Yes, I'm dead serious. Crime is a choice, and so is allowing it de facto.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 04:28:50 pm
content: Shoplifting cases rarely get much in depth investigation. In NL, a shoplifter will be brought back into the store until police arrives. The police officer(s) will ask for some basic evidence from the shop manager and write you a ticket + shop ban. However, those tickets are going on a criminal record, so good luck applying on that fun job you had lined up which often requires a record check.Even though a shop may have CCTV, they aren't going to advocate against their own case. It might simply be your story vs theirs, and I'm afraid police officers hear a lot of BS during the week, so it may be easier for them to simply believe the story by a manager.Obviously, a genuine mistake should not be treated this way. But unfortunately, you don't get to choose if someone is going to be friendly with you. Due to this, I always have to assume that if a company wants something from you, its only to screw you over even more. Verbal reasoning cannot be assumed, because if you want to flip the story they often get pedantic about systems and rules.I have read countless of stories where people went to a selfscan with 2 similar products in which 1 is 10ct more expensive than the other. They scanned the expensive one twice by accident. They got checked, failed, manager got involved and called in the police for shoplifting.Not worth the risk to me. Even though you literally had zero harmful intent and practically did nothing wrong (your bill was higher so no theft). Having and attaining your innocence is not always the same thing unfortunately.I see it as similar as going through traffic. Even though you have right of way, doesn't mean you should cross the road blindly and expect everyone to comply nicely.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 04:48:25 pm
content: In many cases the self checkout is not really made for larger number of items, with no band to place the good and than put back to the cart.A faintly remember (an early one, some 24 years ago) one marked were they even had the band for self check out. The near by chashier from an normal checkout could watch and accept cash or clear age restricted items.At the maned check out it is more waiting the line, but the actual scanning is faster with the chashier scanning and the customer putting things back to the cart or in bags. Another point are the odd items like veggies that still need a manual entry. The cashiers usually know the system better. I still stuggle to find odd veggies like ginger in the system.We locally have a relatively small shop that not only offers self check out, but with a customers card also off hours shopping 24/7 with no personal in the shop. So one more level of trust. During normal opening hours they of cause also have self check out.

author: paul cotter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 04:50:41 pm
content: On some of the early machines with a rapid passage of similar items, say for example cans of beans, it would often count short without detecting the extra weight in the out zone. I noticed this several times on checking the receipt at home. Nowdays I always seek a receipt and a quick glance will show it tallies with my goods.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 05:38:02 pm
content: If self-checkout is designed in the right way, you can train a monkey to use it. It's very easy. Alternatively, you have to stay in line to cashier. The deniers are actually saying that they prefer to stand in line. Many of them are Americans. That explains some things to me. I've enough experience of standing in lines here and in the US so I'm qualified to compare.First, in a line here, people used to stay very close to each other, probably to make it physically impossible for a stranger to infiltrate in the line from the sides. While in the US, people prefer to maintain more distance from each other, respecting the privacy. That makes standing in the line more comfortable.Second, a typical US cashier seems better trained and usually, she/he allows you to put all your items in the bag before starting to throw the items of the next customer to the common heap, creating a confusion. While here, the cashiers typically are doing just that, incentivizing you to remove your items from the output bin faster.So here I prefer to use a self-checkout on every occasion. Besides, that's a faster way (at least, it was initially so). When the self-checkout points were just introduced in the supermarkets, few customers were using them. By now, enough popularity is gained while the number of cashers has reduced. So it's not always an express lane, but the main advantage is that you have less inter-person interaction.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 05:51:09 pm
content: Quotethey solved that problem years ago with a movable divider that split the bagging area into 2,but it seems to have disappeared

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 06:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 01, 2025, 05:51:09 pmYes, the divider. It can divide only by two (never seen a more advanced ones). When both halves are full of items and the cashier have a long line of customers to serve, the problem arises. My method is to don't allow the cashier to start counting my items until the output area is clear. Frequently, cashier becomes angry because of that. Bad training.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 06:49:46 pm
content: In the US, we often have a set of square-cross-section bars that are used to separate clients' items on the belt.In a good installation, there is a channel between the belt and the cashier to send the used bars back to the start of the belt.If you live in a neighborhood with intelligent shoppers, each will place a bar at the start or end of his/hers items.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 07:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 30, 2025, 01:11:10 pmI prefer a choice. For a trolley with full of shopping maybe easier to put on a belt and have someone scan it for you.I remembered in a big Tesco's store a in 2021 where a manager shut all the tills but one and they had a very long queue with trolleys. The manager was asking customers to go to the checkout tills with many refusing to do so. The problem was the checkout stands that were there where the item goes on to be weighed after scanning were so small like half the size of the trolley and was something I'd expect from a smaller express store.I remember some large Sainsbury's stores featuring large stands which make sense for a trolley's worth otherwise I'd suppose you'd have to pay each time the stand got full.

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 08:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on July 01, 2025, 06:49:46 pmDitto here. Concerning self-checkout, the complexity may increase with the sold by weight items (potato, banana, lattice, etc.). You have to place such an item on a scale platform, select the type and the scale will print a sticker with the price code, which can be scanned at the self-checkout point (sometimes, the point is equipped with a scale). About a month ago, I'd noticed an innovation in the supermarket. Looks like they'd installed a camera somewhere near to the scale, because the inscription states "Our AI technologies can identify the type automatically, please try it". It works reasonably well. When it can't identify exact type, it displays a row of most likely types for manual selection. Good work.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 09:49:49 am
content: Quote from: hans on July 01, 2025, 04:28:50 pmIt sounds like you either have a poor legal system in NL, or those people have received bad legal advice.In the UK, the law presumes innocence, until proven guilty. Each party has to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. One cannot lie by omission. All evidence has to be disclosed, including that which compromises one's own case. If the shop has evidence i.e. CCTV, showing the customer scanning the item, suggesting they didn't intentionally take it without paying, then they must submit it. Simply pretending it doesn't exist is not acceptable. A shop caught doing that will get into serious trouble. Perjury is far more serious than theft of low value items and can result in a large fine and/or long prison sentence.Yes, the police hear a lot of BS, which is why they're unlikely to do anything when it's your word against the shop's manager. There has to be strong evidence i.e. CCTV and/or multiple witness before they'll do anything and even then, it's unlikely they'll bother, as theft of a value of <£200 is only a summary offense. Even if it's more serious, i.e. someone took some jewelry without paying, then the police would still require hard evidence, before pursuing the matter.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 09:57:49 am
content: Quote from: Zero999 on June 30, 2025, 01:02:43 pmAlso, they are not the ones paying for the theft, they simply raise the prices to recover that loss. Since every other supermarket also needs to add self-checkouts too, in order to follow the trend, they will also have to raise prices too. So there's no loss of market share to other supermarkets from that price increase. The only ones who lose are the customers

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:24:49 am
content: Quote from: Psi on July 02, 2025, 09:57:49 amExcept the light-fingered customers, obv.My grandmother's brother was a top guy in HQ of a major NZ supermarket chain. He told us that supermarkets don't make their money from the apparent markup, but mostly from them having your money today while they won't pay their suppliers for 30 days. And in that 30 days they will have turned over much of their stock up to 10 times, especially in the fruit / veg / meat sections.I don't think this is any great secret, I'm sure it's taught in university finance papers, but I don't think the average Jane on the street (or in the press) is aware of it.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:34:58 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on June 30, 2025, 12:52:21 pmI'm not so sure about that. People said similar things when cameras were enabled which literally stare at your face, yet people seem to be using them more than ever, myself included. Even Aldi is expanding their rollout of self-service checkouts.I'm a "basket shopper" so it's quicker for me to just get in and out via the self-service checkout. I live in a regional area outside Sydney, so for the most part, the scales that verify the weight of the product versus what goes in the bags are disabled, so you can literally scan as fast as their staff can (I guess customer experience outweighs the risk of theft?).This is probably just a stepping stone to RFID tags and checkout-less stores, like what is already fairly common in convenience stores in Japan.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:45:58 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on June 30, 2025, 01:12:57 pmOr in case the bags of Caesar salad ingredients, mainly chopped lettuce, trigger the "staff login required for approval" on the self-checkouts. I shit you not.The staff have no idea why it's like this, and it's been like that for months.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 10:54:23 am
content: Oh yes there's the staff approval, which is required for age restricted items: alcohol, knives, pharmaceuticals, energy drinks etc. Fortunately I rarely buy such items, except for the occasional energy drink, as I don't drink alcohol, which I only buy as a gift. It's such a pain, I always go to a staff checkout when I buy anything age restricted, unless the staffed checkouts are busy, the self-service is empty and there's a member of staff standing around right next to it, doing nothing.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 02:16:04 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on July 01, 2025, 10:13:15 amWhatever the supermarkets do to "appear" to improve things you always have to remember to think about how it benefits them. That'll be the reasons they used.In the past 6 years some supermarkets local to me have been sloppy in the meat sections with ensuring the weeks discounts were updated on last weeks stock so the scanned price is never higher than the advertised or shelf price. In Australia there is still in place from way back when individual price tags were replaced by barcodes, a thing called the "supermarket scanning code of practice". If an item priced under $50 (not updated in 40 years), is scanned in error and higher you can claim a full refund and get it free. First item only of multiples. The signs promoting it haven't been displayed for 20 years and I think almost no-one knows of it or even bothers to check carefully.In the past 6 years I have exercised this policy hundreds of times and saved at least $1000 each of those years. Usually what limited me was what I could eat and what space I had in the freezer. It was amazing how they did not fix the error. I could, and sometimes did, go back every day for a week and get the same thing. It started October 2018 and last month I finally managed to fit the icecube trays back in. In the middle of Winter, great.It's not just meat, I've done it with motor oil, chicko rolls, bread mix, honey, soap and things I've forgotten. One week I got 7x5 litre bottles of Valvoline motor oil. There's a few hundred dollars. I cannot help but wonder if most people make any effort to check shelf prices against the register docket. And if they do they just let the supermarket run it through at the correct price.Whilst the supermarkets advance technology to their benefit we as shoppers have to do our part and keep them on a short leash.https://www.wemoney.com.au/blog/the-scanning-code-of-practice-and-receiving-free-groceries#:~:text=The%20Scanning%20Code%20of%20Practice%20is%20a%20voluntary,any%20subsequent%20identical%20items%20at%20the%20lower%20price.https://www.9news.com.au/finance/money-matters-supermarket-scanning-code-of-practice-how-customers-can-receive-items-free/4aab5a58-c234-43a1-8e05-9051d0692845Coles don't make this easy to find they call it "Promise on Price Scanning".https://www.coles.com.au/help/search?searchTerm=scanning&helpId=incorrect-scanning-price

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 09:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 02, 2025, 10:24:49 amSounds like the old joke:Most supermarkets operate at a slight loss.But they make it up in volume.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 11:31:20 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 01, 2025, 01:12:25 amClever. File under "Things I'd never have thought of in 1,000,000 years."

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 11:50:42 pm
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on July 02, 2025, 09:58:52 pmYears ago, I had dinner with Sig Weis, founder is the eponymous supermarket chain in PA. He claimed the overall profit margin was about 3%. There are a lot of losses one doesn't see. That makes them very sensitive to retail theft. It's no surprise they suffered so much during the time California had Proposition 47 (decriminalize retail theft <$950) in full force. And of course, those who suffered most from store closings lived in neighborhoods where retail theft is the highest.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 12:43:05 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on July 02, 2025, 11:31:20 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_secure_transmissionGalaxy S6 (April 2015) was the first one to have it, and Galaxy S20 in 2020 the last flagship model as standard PayWave terminals became more common everywhere.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 07:53:16 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on July 03, 2025, 12:43:05 amNot that swiping cards was ever common in germany...But i think i would have been accused of somehow hacking the terminal if i just held my phone over a terminal that expects a swiped card

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 08:23:25 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on July 04, 2025, 07:53:16 amEven now, ten years after the first Apple watch came out, I still get cashiers almost every day -- certainly every week -- saying they never before saw someone paying by holding their watch near the terminal. And I"m sure many others are equally surprised but don't say anything.Once that terminal goes "bing!" and APPROVED comes up on the screen they really don't care how you did it. I've seen videos of people embed an RFID chip inside a literal apple and pay with that.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 08:45:51 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on July 04, 2025, 07:53:16 amI don't remember the last time I saw any terminal in AU that actually accepted a magstripe. Most (all?) have been disabled long ago and some banks don't even issue cards with the magstripe anymore. Almost everyone uses contactless payment either using a physical card, their phone or watch. The fall-back method is to insert the card so the payment terminal can read the chip.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 11:21:51 pm
content: The one thing that really annoys me about the self-service checkoutsis at the end when it has a popup asking if you want a receipt printed or not.Why is there not also an option there to skip printing a fuel voucher!Every single terminal prints one fuel voucher for every purchase. 95% of people instantly tear it off and put it into the large rubbish bin below, full of fuel vouchers.It's seriously just a machine that creates trash for no reason.My only guess is that they have a contract with the fuel company that says they must print a voucher for every purchase.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 11:34:33 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 07, 2025, 11:21:51 pmI subscribe to the Woolworths rewards program for my everyday shopping, those points go towards Qantas frequent flyer points (why not earn points on groceries I already intend to buy, I'm not swayed by their promotions for products I wouldn't ordinarily purchase). Anyway, in there, there is an option to go "paperless", so no physical receipt, it goes straight into the app.

author: John Coloccia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 11:37:49 pm
content: My local market has self checkout scanner guns you can take with you, if you want. Scan and bag as I shop. Pay all at once at self checkout. I really like this actually and it's a real time saver.But without that it's not better, IMHO.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 11:51:55 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 07, 2025, 11:21:51 pmIn a former life I was a printer.I mean a bona fide ink-on-paper (offset lithography) printer.Regarding all the junk mail that gets printed, I used to think:Why not just put a large dumpster at the delivery end of the press?Straight to the landfill (or recycling center), without the annoying process of people having to deal with that shit.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 03:31:55 am
content: I avoid them as much as possible because seeing my 25 chins and mortician's complexion on that shitty 1.4 inch display ruins my week.

author: Kasper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 03:44:41 am
content: Last time I went to a staffed checkout, the machine froze and I stood there 5 min waiting for supervisor before loading up my cart and going to self serve.Usually there are lines at staffed checkouts and none at self-serve so self-serve is an easy choice.Shoplifting is a problem in my area, they load up and walk out, no need to pretend to use self-checkout.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 04:28:17 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on August 07, 2025, 11:34:33 pmThis was at New World (in NZ) i have a feeling that i dont get fuel vouchers at Woolworths NZ. Will have to check.Both places have the confirmation popup to skip printing the receipt, so the normal receipt is never an issue.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 12:51:01 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 07, 2025, 11:21:51 pmLOL! When I purchase anything at the local Winn-Dixie supermarket they print out a receipt that is about 26 inches long, even if it's just for a single item. Even if the front side is barely used, the back of the receipt has a long series of adds on it so I guess that it's just an advertising gimmick.A lot of stores in this area now give you the option of having the receipt E-mailed to you instead of printing one. Nope, I get enough SPAM, I'm not giving you my E-mail address!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 01:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 08, 2025, 04:28:17 amThere have been several well documented cases around here where people paid for items at the self checkout and were thenarrested, stopped and held and sometimes hand cuffed but not technically arrested, for shoplifting after they got outside of the store when they didn't have a receipt. But after the cops checked the store video recording they found that the people did indeed pay so the customers were never charged. So it looks like the automated store surveillance systems are generating a number of false positives concerningshop lifting, people leaving the store without paying. So for that reason I always get my receipt and I check it before I leave the store. I'm not a lawyer and don't really know but I would think that there could be legal implications for the stores concerning cases of false arrest if customers aren'tautomaticallyoffered a receipt. I know that several people that were stopped are trying to sue the police departments and the stores involved but I don't know if they're been allowed by the courts to sue or not.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2025, 01:34:31 pm
content: I actually prefer self-checkouts - I can scan items in the order I want to make packing more efficient, one less pair of hands touching my groceries.As for shop-lifting - I read somewhere that some shop owners instruct their loss prevention departments to trespass shoplifters first (issue them a formal notice that they are not allowed on a property), and then once they return (and they DO return in most cases) call the police and tack on trespass violation on top of theft.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2025, 07:55:33 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 08, 2025, 01:09:34 pmThere's a good reason why security guards in Australia have no powers above and beyond a regular person, and they certainly don't carry handcuffs or any other weapons (with the exception of a small number of appropriately licensed guards, usually those working in transporting cash and other valuables). They can't detain you beyond a normal citizens arrest (which is rare in itself because of risks of litigation), they don't have any powers to demand identification or search anybody. All they can basically do is refuse entry from the premises they are working for. Law enforcement is left to the police.

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 09:30:50 am
content: Pretty much the same thing here. But you can add a third reason for them: resetting the machine when it gets it's little silicon brain scrambled, which is all the time.I like the self checkout because the line usually moves faster for a few items and I can pack the bags my way.Quote from: madires on June 30, 2025, 01:07:00 pm

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 12:13:20 pm
content: I like the self-service checkouts because I'm a miserable git and want to avoid having to interact with an actualperson. 🤮😉

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 12:52:58 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on August 12, 2025, 09:30:50 amI always found the concept of a bagger that packs your bags for you quite odd. Baggers just do not exist in germany, and never have, at least in my lifetime.Can you not tell the bagger to not pack your bags and instead just do it yourself, even at a normal checkout? Or is that such an outlandish request that it doesn't work?

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 01:05:49 pm
content: Quote from: EPAIII on August 12, 2025, 09:30:50 amX2. I usually only buy a few items at a time so I use the self checkout most of the time. But I've found that failure rate of self checkout machines go upexponentiallywith the number of items that you buy, so if I buy more than 6 or 7 items I go the manned checkout station. Otherwise If I use the self checkout and it hangs up then I have to go looking for sales droid to come and reset it, which takes longer than it would have taken to go to the manned checkout in the first place.The wait time to get a sales droid is so bad in Aldi that I won't try any more. Locally they only have one manned checkout in the entire store and it always has a long line of people that have over flowing shopping carts so I'm forced the use the self checkout. But if it hangs up NONE of the other store employees will interrupt their gab feast to come over and clear the machine so now when the self checkout machine hangs up I just leave the food on the counter and walk out. Aldi is too CHEAP to have a manager on hand to keep the employees working so most of them are standing around all day in groups of six or so and just talking.The whole error laden, failure prone self checkout process had driven me to buy a lot less of the things that really don't need, such as premixed drinks, cookies, candy, pastries, potato chips and other junk food. Most of junk food is highly over priced to begin with and by cutting it out my food budget has been cut in at least half over the past few years, depute the higher food prices in general.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2025, 01:22:59 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on August 12, 2025, 12:52:58 pmYes, you can in the US but in most stores the baggers are FAST and if you're like most of us and you're watching the clerk ring up your items and making sure that ring up at the right prices and that they didn't get rung up twice and then pay the clerk and get your change and or your receipt then by the time that you've finished, the baggers have already finished bagging your groceries. The retail grocery business is just like most businesses in the US, their goad to get as many people in and out of their place of business in the least amount of time as possible. The BETTER class of grocery stores in the US (i.e. Publix) usually has one clerk and two baggers at each manned checkout station. But their prices are slightly higher than Walmart, Target, Aldi, etc.

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2025, 12:15:40 am
content: Years or decades ago when baggers disappeared from local supermarkets they expected the checkout operator to put things in bags as they went. We immediately decided to keep our bags out of their reach, take products and bag them ourselves. Now we use self-service exclusively, because we handle with care.At the fresh food market we choose the order in which we present fruit and vegetables for bagging and assist in the process. We are generally familiar with which operators are good (and also which one invariably accidentally rings up at least one product in a more expensive category).Since the children moved out we almost always shop together, which makes managing prices and packing easier.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 11:18:51 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on August 07, 2025, 11:21:51 pmThey use to do this in but one day in Aldi but if you didn't confirm in 5 second it's wouldn't print it out and had to get staff to make it do it. Now it just prints them out. The problem the printer are at the bottom lower than the till and they said a number of people had just been leaving them in there.

author: kite31
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2025, 11:40:01 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on August 16, 2025, 11:18:51 pmAnother example of blaming the customer for poor design by the company.