The quest for a cheap analog scope in the UK - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SteveUK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 04:18:12 am
content: I'm not really sure where this post belongs. I'm just sharing my frustrationsI'm just getting back into electronics after many years, and I really need a cheap analog scope. Ebay seemed like a good idea, but it in the UK there doesn't seem to be a lot to choose from. Well, anything that is cheap and doesn't look too ancient, that is.After reading this guide...http://reviews.ebay.com/Buying-an-Oscilloscope-on-ebay?ugid=10000000001568756I am avoiding any scope that isn't shown working. A simple rule which seems quite sensible. To be honest, I'm not that into bidding for second hand goods on ebay. I always seem to get beaten in the last 2 nanoseconds.There are some sites selling refurbished scopes. One of them looked quite promising and was offering the classic Tektronix 456B for about £100. However, as soon as I asked about purchasing it, the scope didn't exist. This phantom scope is still listed on their site now. So that doesn't make a very good impression.New analog scopes seem quite wildly priced and out of my budget. Well aside from a several 10MHz scopes on Amazon.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tekpower-Single-Channel-Oscilloscope-CQ5010C/dp/B000CCILTS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1325727228&sr=8-5http://www.amazon.co.uk/VOLTCRAFT-Voltcraft-AO-610-Analogue-Oscilloscope/dp/B003A5P8M2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1325727228&sr=8-7http://www.amazon.co.uk/CALTEK-CS10H-10MHZ-OSCILLOSCOPE-Pack/dp/9792219315/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1325727228&sr=8-11Something screams "crap" when I look at those thoughIf I really have to take the plunge and spend some significant amount of money though, I'd probably have to go for the Rigol DS1052E. I can get it for £280 on amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rigol-DS1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-Channels/dp/B005ZCEC52/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325734125&sr=8-1) or £320 ish from the UK distributor. Something tells me that people aren't going to be using these scopes in 30 years time though, as is the case with the analog scopes.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 05:01:09 am
content: I will make the same suggestion that I always do:Google for Hamfests in your area---there are often a few 'scopes available at these events.If not,the "hams" may have some ideas of where one might be available.Tek & HP are good,but don't discount some of the old Brit & European beasts.There were a number of CRO manufacturers in the UK,right up to the late 1970s,early 1980s (can't remember many of the brandnames now,but they were as familiar as Tektronix,way back when)The earlier Telequipments were a bit "rough around the edges",but the later ones seem to have quite good specs.Solartron?The little 10MHz analogs on the link aren't really too bad,but they are overpriced to hell!The prices in Sterling are about the samenumbersas for similar units in Oz,& the A$ certainly hasn't attained parity with the Pound Sterling!The Rigol certainly looks like a bargain in comparison.VK6ZGO

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 08:48:21 am
content: A fine 20Mhz Hitachi for $102 delivered with warranty:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Hitachi-V-223-20Mhz-Oscilloscope-analogue-delayed-sweep-scope-/400263071905?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item5d3189c8a1#ht_1981wt_905Soldering iron oops:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HATACHI-OSCILLOSCOPE-V-212-20MHz-/190619837293?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2c61d3e36d#ht_500wt_1287A 20MHz Leader:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEADER-LBO522-20-MHz-2-CHANNEL-OSCILLOSCOPE-/370569709216?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item5647ad06a0#ht_2232wt_1139Dave.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 10:42:12 am
content: Try a search atwww.ebay.defor the word "Hameg". I have came across several cheap oscilloscopes + 20~30 euros for shipping.Alexander.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 01:35:23 pm
content: Steve,Where in the UK are you located ?I have several analogue scopes that are excess to my needs and may be able to help at a sensible price. My inventory includes Hameg HM203-5/6 and HM205 storage types.I am not a dealer or trade.Aurora

author: The_Penguin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 02:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 05, 2012, 08:48:21 amI have the Hitachi 212, nice scope. I've seen a few on ebay for under $150.00Speaking of which, I was *sure* I saw an EEV blog with a V-212 on the bench, but haven't seen it since. Was I dreaming, or remembering some other nerd Youtube video?

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 02:22:25 pm
content: Something irrelevant...The hunt for cheap function generator is more difficult.Alexander.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 03:19:05 pm
content: Ref Function generator....Not always so.I purchased a "sold as seen" Kenwood FGE1202 and a Digimess (Grundig) FG100 function generator via ebay.co.uk, both for less than GBP30 each. The Kenwood was perfect and the Digimess had an O/C primary winding on the transformer that was easily fixed. They are built around the famous MAX038 chip (now unavailable) and perform well up to 20MHzDave even released a MAX038 FG design some time ago.Last week I purchased a great condition Uni-Trend UTG-9010C 10MHz function generator for GBP55 delivered. A good looking beast that I have yet to receive so can't comment on performance.Sometimes you need to buy a faulty unit and repair it in order to save a lot of money. There is a risk but the rewards can be great. I also enjoy repairing equipment...a bit like solving puzzle gamesThey are around, you just need to keep your eyes peeled as they sell quickly.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 06:51:39 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on January 05, 2012, 05:01:09 amExcept they're all single channel - I wouldn't touch anything with less than two channels.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2012, 07:53:09 pm
content: Not sure if you want to call this cheap, but I just stumbled on this one over on eBay.UKhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-TAS465-100MHz-2-Channel-Oscilloscope-/170757673532?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item27c1f3523c#ht_984wt_1219

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 12:25:50 am
content: I could kick myself, there was recently a Tek 2465 400MHz quad channel on Ebay, up for £400 with offers accepted. That was way above my limit of £250, but I thought that would get turned down straight away so I didn't bother. Needless to say, I looked yesterday and someone had made an offer for £250 which was accepted. Sigh.Generally speaking, brand name scopes go for stupidly high amounts money here in the UK now. The amateur radio rallies are certainly not the bargain basements that they once were, with Ebay pushing the prices up.There is a lot of competition around the £200 on Ebay for Chinese DSOs. I made a big list of stuff last week and it is already out of date! Here is a selection of them (all dual trace)AttenADS 1022 25MHz, 500MS/S £186ADS 1062 60MHz 1GS/S £193Uni-TUTD 2052 50MHz, 500MS/S 600k memory, 7in screen £212UTD 2102 100MHz 1GS/S £228OwonPDS5022S 25MHz 100MS/S £188(Rigol DS 1052E £250)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 12:38:48 am
content: I just did a quick hunt on ebay to see what was available....oooops I ended up buying a relatively modern analogue Kenwood 3 channel 60MHz oscilloscope, with digital range readouts and full cursor measurement facilities + HDTV sync. Its got a nice high CRT EHT of 12k so should be nice and sharp......the price....GBP70. Looks well cared for too. That's not bad for what was a US$1100 scope. I may have to do some repair work but that's all part of the fun for me.In response to the original poster.... there are many good analogue scopes for sale on ebay tonight. It would be worth your while taking a close look as you may get a good one at a decent price especially if you can accept 20MHz B/W.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 12:43:40 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on January 05, 2012, 06:51:39 pmAgreed,but a single channel 'scope is much better than no 'scope at all!I bought a similar one to use in fixing an old BWD,but ended up finding a lot of uses for it--never got round to fixing the BWD!I now have a Tek 7613 mainframe 'scope,which is excellent,but if I needed a CRO for a simple job away from home,I'd probably still take the little"One Hung Lo"---7000 series are heavy!When I was a lad,I could carry a 545B,But I'm not a lad anymore!My suggestion to the OP is still a secondhand 100MHz two channel or more---with delayed timebase if at all possibleAs I said,there still should be some good 'scopes floating around in the UK.After all,the Brits made a lot of test equipment back in the day!VK6ZGO

author: SteveUK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 04:32:04 am
content: Thanks for all the help/suggestions.I saw the 20MHz Hitachi. It does look tempting, but I was a bit suspicious since no picture was shown with the trace going.I hadn't seen the Leader Scope. At least there is a picture with that one working. I'm not that well versed in Oscilloscope brands. Is Leader ok?I certainly wont be buying this one thoughhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAMEG-HM203-5-Oscilloscope-20MHz-HM-203-5-/120691867720It looks like it's been involved in some kind of bombing.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 08:52:56 am
content: There is something very odd about that SurplusTechmart company in Israel.Their kit often seems to be in appalling condition as though it's been on a municipality dump ! They have chassis that look like they have been deliberately smashed up with sledge hammers. This is a sign that they may be sourcing their 'equipment' from the military or government scrap heap that is sold as scrap metal. My employer used to treat disposals the same way, I think the technical term was to "put equipment beyond use by others!" My employer is now more enlightened and doesn't smash good kit to pieces before disposalI would suggest SurplusTechmart be avoided as a supplier unless you just need parts and even then the prices are on the crazy side of high !For info, Hameg is a well documented German brand of 'scope so schematics are freely available. They do not use Custom LSI in the pre R&S era. The front end matched dual FET can be a challenge to source but they don't fail often. I have not known a CRT or mains transformer to fail either. They are eminently repairable

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2012, 10:24:25 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on January 06, 2012, 08:52:56 amEspecially their standard claim that they don't have the tools to test the equipment. Fuck, they are shifting testing equipment by the hundreds. One would assume they sooner or later acquire a clue and a few instruments, i.e. a function generator, to at least do some performance testing.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 11:53:27 am
content: Highly recommend these guys:http://www.stewart-of-reading.co.uk/Just 10 miles from me!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 12:39:48 pm
content: +1 on Stewarts of ReadingGood kit and great service at fair prices.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2012, 08:24:41 pm
content: Well, if you really want - I have a dual channel (dual trace) 20 MHz oscilloscope.It's an LG OS-5020 and was part of a set that the German company Conrad was selling together with the Metex universal system MS-9150 (power supply, frequency counter and generator, 4_1/2 digit DMM). It was my first scope and I bought it when I was 16Here are some specs copy & pasted from a quick google search:Performance Characteristics of the OS-5020Form Factor BenchtopBandwidth 20 MHzRise time 17.5 nsNumber of Channels 2 chMin. Vertical Sensitivity 5 mV/div (x5 amplifier selection)Maximum Vertical Sensitivity 5 V/divVertical(or Deflection Factor) Accuracy 3 %Input Coupling AC,DC,GNDInput Impedance 1 MOhmMaximum Input Voltage 250 V(dc+pMain time base - lowest 200 ns/divMain time base - highest 0.2 s/divTime base Magnification factor (X?) x10Timebase accuracy 3 %Trigger Source External,InternalTrigger Modes Auto,Normal,TH-H,TV-VTrigger Sensitivity 1.5 mVDisplay Type Color CRT (lies, it's green phosphor)Display Size 15.24 cmI still have the card board box it came with, including Styrofoam shielding, manual and may even have a spare probe. I'd have to go to the basement to measure the dimensions of the box but the weight of the scope is 7.8 kgI'm reluctant to giving it away but my wife gave me a Tek 7104 for Christmas and then there's my everyday scope, the Rigol.You can probably get a cheap TEK 4XX somewhere which would be a better choice I guess. Your call.EDIT: I just had a look at the scopes Steward Reading sell, I would probably take the Tek 465B they sell for 95...125 GBP. They're awesome.

author: SteveUK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 02:18:28 am
content: Quote from: Neganur on January 07, 2012, 08:24:41 pmYes, that was what I thought too. Except when I enquired about it, they said they didn't have one. It's still listed there now. So I have no confidence in their online stock list. It kind of put me off really.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2012, 11:23:13 am
content: On line stock lists are sadly often out of date.Please don't take that as an indication that the supplier is no good...they are a fine equipment reseller who just don't get to update their web site often enough (quite common for non IT geek companies). Having both spoken with them and boght equiopment from Stuarts of Reading, they are trustworthy and genuine.Aurora

author: SteveUK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2012, 03:23:24 am
content: In the end I got the Hitachi V-223 from ebay.Seems to work ok, although I don't have a signal generator. I made a little astable 555 circuit and the oscilloscope frequency agrees with the frequency counter on my Extech EX330 multimeter.Initially though, I was getting a reading on the Extech that was twice the Oscilloscope reading (before I decoupled things).I'm sure you can spot why.

author: Joy at MCS
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2012, 03:40:36 pm
content: The old leader equipment seems to have a good reputation.. I know a few customers who have some old kit in their warehouse and seem to like it. I'm not sure how the new products would be.I've never heard of Hitachi before. Seems like you got a good deal on a used scope either way.Good Luck to you :-)

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2012, 04:11:56 pm
content: Looking as well here, nothing on line........Will have to go out and look.