HP 5303A counter is missing unknown IC.... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 04:49:01 pm
content: Hello All,I received a HP5303A counter which is not working. So I opened it, and what did I see?Huh?? IC 6 is missing!?!Problem is I can't find out what this IC is that is missing....This is a nice little counter, in beautiful classic HP tech. So I like to restore it.Unfortunately it is very hard to find documentation about this counter.So, if someone owns this counter, can you open it, and find out what IC is used for IC6?(It is a modular system, you can split it open in 10 seconds)Off coarse, a schematic or manual would be very appreciated!I already confirmed that the rest of the counter is working perfectly. So I just need this IC....Just to avoid disappointments:This counter is part of the 5300 modular series, and if you look on the Agilent/Keysight 5303A page there is a link to a manual, but the linked manual is for the 5300A, which contains no info whatsoever about the 5303A module….. (I already received several 5300A manuals from helpful people…..)I hope you can help me out….Thanks & regards,Gertjan

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 06:51:38 pm
content: I have a schematic for the 5302a board which is a 50 MHz counter. U6 is a quad AND IC on that one. PM me your email and I'll send you that schematic if you think it might help (which it probably won't) The available manuals seem to stop with the PS/display mainframe. It's pretty hard finding data on the counter modules. You might want to check with Artek.

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 07:21:17 pm
content: Hi PaulAm,Yes, I would like to see the schematic of the 5302A. Maybe they used the same technique, which might help.You can find my e-mail address is in my profile, just click on "Gertjan", above the photo.The available manuals are for the 5300A display unit, and are containing chapters 1 to 8. The manual for the counter module was separate, and was numbered chapter 9. So you could use them together as one manual. That's why most manuals stop at chapter 8....I have been searching the Internet for weeks, and didn't find anything on the 5303A. Others wanted to help, and came up with exactly the same stuff as I had found (5300A manuals, and manuals of other modules of the range)Witch suggests that together we found pretty much all there is out there.That is why I am asking here, hoping to find a 5303A owner, who can look inside, or someone who has a paper manual.I did ask Artek, they didn't have this manual, but were able tomaybescan it over six weeks...Regards, Gertjan.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 08:39:41 pm
content: Hi Gertjan,I found the discussion on circuitsonline.net and also thought that the MC1032P was a good candidate.I could not find the datasheet but I found the one for the milspec version:So I tried to reverse the bottom pcb you posted there and I can see a problem:The clock of the second flipflop of IC6 is connected to ground, and since I'm a bit rusty on JK flipflops I'm not sure it can do anything without a clock.So now I'm not sure if IC6 is a MC1032P after all

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 09:07:04 pm
content: Hi PA0PBZ,I did the same reverse-engineering as you did, and have the same reservations.That is why I am looking for someone with an 5303A, or a manual.......It would be nice to have a confirmation of the identity of mystery IC 6!There must be at least one other HP 5303A or its manual in the world...regards, Gertjan.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 09:30:37 pm
content: Ask this guy for the number off the chip you need -http://www.ebay.com/itm//311462863453

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 09:34:29 pm
content: I have a pdf of the 5302a schematic, but it's too big to upload and converting it into something else is useless. The pdf is around 4M.You can grab it herehttp://www.auroragrp.com/hp5302A.pdf

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 09:45:56 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on October 27, 2015, 09:30:37 pmHa! I just sent him a message asking for the info.

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:09:04 pm
content: IC5 is a 1820-0581 = MC1032P. My guess that the missing IC6 is a MC1032P too. I think it's a circuit like this from the 5302a schematic.

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:20:10 pm
content: Hi PaulAm,Your schematic is helping a lot!Look at this part of the 5302A schematic, called "prescaler" (it is dividing by 10):and compare it with my reverse-engineerded schematic of the divider with the missing IC6:Pretty identical!Bear in mind that this is Motorola MECL technology, So power supply is negative, and unused inputs in my schematic are connected toground-5V.So PA0PBZ, it might work with a grounded clock input (last flip-flop) after all....Can you tell me the part numbers of UI8 and UI9 in the 5302A schematic?Nice scan BTW!Regards, Gertjan.@ Ryano: Thanks for asking! Holding my breath....@ Sync: you are typing faster than me....

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:30:48 pm
content: Well.... I'm not going to give our Ebay friend Photographer of the Year award, but here you go!

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ryano on October 27, 2015, 10:30:48 pmGood enough!

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:44:44 pm
content: Wow, that was one fast seller. Isn't this forum great, that didn't take long at all.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 10:58:52 pm
content: I have bought from Electro Marvin before and he is a good chap.Glad he helped on this matter. Maybe worth buying his board for spares ?Fraser

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:07:54 pm
content: Interesting in the pic that both the Motorola part number and the HP coded number are installed and both are the same function!. Does not look like any repair done.Any way another ebay add for the mc1032p ;http://www.ebay.com/itm/MC1032P-MOTOROLA-1976-16-PIN-DIP-VINTAGE-MC1032-/370442967631

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on October 27, 2015, 10:58:52 pmHis price seems a little high.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 11:31:40 pm
content: Most sellers are open to offers.Fraser

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 05:41:09 am
content: Thanks a lot Ryano! Very good actionI looked at that auction before, but I didn't think that an e-bay seller would care to take extra Photos unless you are a buyer.....A few MC1032P's from the seller linked by lowimpedance are on it's way to me.Interesting is that I bought those a few days ago for $ 2.97, now the price is $ 7.95......You really would think those e-bay sellers are reading EEVblog all dayThank you all, for resolving this so quickly!Still, It would be very nice to find a manual or schematic for this HP 5303A.....Regards, Gertjan.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 10:50:12 am
content: Quote from: Gertjan on October 28, 2015, 05:41:09 amI hear that the prices of vintage equipment go up right after Dave reviews them...

author: Ryano
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2015, 03:16:14 pm
content: Quote from: Gertjan on October 28, 2015, 05:41:09 amI may have used some creative wording that made me sound more interested that I really was, but I will certainly be buying something from him in the future, so I don't feel too bad about it!

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2015, 02:30:23 pm
content: The new MC1032P chips arrived, and I soldered one into place.Now the board looks much better:The new chip does not look as nice as its colleges, it doesn't have the nice golden legs. But it works just a well.You can also see that the new chip is 5 years younger than it's colleges.Now the counter can count up to 500MHz again, just like it's bigger Brother:The 5303A can count with more resolution than it's 6 digits suggests, by overflowing it's display:This little counter works in all aspects better than it's specifications. Not unusual for HP products of it's time.Sensitivity is over the whole range more than twice as good then specified.On the 1M input (max.50MHz) it counts up to 80MHz with nominal sensitivity:On the 50R input (max.500MHz) it counts up to 610MHz with nominal sensitivity:Not bad at all for this little Counter!Only thing that is a pity that I still haven't found the manual....After all the searching I think this is because there are not a lot of these 5303A's sold.Pretty soon HP introduced B versions, with an 8 digit display and more functionality. Probably they found out the hard way that 6 digits is a bit meagre, even for a budget counter....Thank you all for helping me out!Regards, Gertjan.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 12:45:41 am
content: Sweet! It's nice to see that you got it up and running again. Next to nixies, I also have a soft spot for those little dot-type numeric displays that HP used for a time, and have a (working) 5302A in my pile-o-counters, and 34702 & 3A meters in the pile of stuff-to-be-worked-on.Congrats on repairing the cute little beastie.-Pat

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 08:22:19 am
content: Hi Cubdriver,For you 2 more Photos of the 5303A display:And, you don't coincidentally have a manual with your 5302A?regards, Gertjan.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 08:37:24 am
content: I need to get me one of those displays... for purposes.EDIT: Does anyone know where to find one cheaply?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 08:46:28 am
content: How about the alphanumeric LED ones, they are almost as nice. I have a few old TI calculators which use the LED dot 7 segment displays,. and they look so nice.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2015, 12:54:34 pm
content: Fantastic! Nice to see it working

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2015, 11:10:12 am
content: I finally got the 5303A manual!It was Dave from Artek Manuals who unearthed it, and scanned it for me.Perfect scan quality by the way! With perfect readable schematics, recreated original page numbering, with matching handy index.And here is the part of the schematic we were looking for:Looks familiar by now.....I found that I am using this little counter more often than I thought I would.It is handy for a quick look on frequency, and often high resolution is not needed (or even wanted)For example, yesterday I was using a generator with a slow sweep, and the 5303A was handy to follow the actual sweep frequency.The low resolution made it easy to follow the sweep frequency, which wasn't the case on it's more digits producing, reciprocal counting colleges.... (even after blanking some digits)Regards, Gertjan.

author: Gertjan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 11:42:03 am
content: @ Bas,You sent me a personal message with a request for help with the repair of your 5303A.Unfortunately your Personal Message got deleted, so I can't reply....Please send a new PM, and I will contact you.Regards, Gertjan.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 11:51:30 am
content: Some how or another I picked up a 5302A and a 5305B and both a 5300 a & b top ends in working order. I love the dot display on the A the most