New Digital Multimeter.... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Cacus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 05:30:55 pm
content: Hi AllLet me start by stating the following.When it comes to electronics I a total beginner. I mean I know what V I R is but lets assume total noob.Now as I run head long into this hobby my goals are ultimately building guitar pedals on the analogue side and Arduino’s for a bit of IOT / Robotic type projects on the digital side.Now I’m in the market to replace my old Maplin M-776 multimeter that I’ve had for about 38 years!So I have been looking at the following all by Brymen. BM869s; BM867s; BM829, BM257s and BM239RThe prices for each are as follows in Euro 219; 159; 149, 109 and 109 retrospectively.Any how I started with the 239R and then did the ooh… for 40 more I can have this but then for a bit more… well you all know the game. ;-)Any how I intend this to be the last DMM I buy. But I’m not sure if it’s best to plump for the higher specs meters to cover my ‘electronics future'.For example I’ll only ever use higher voltage AC readings to make sure a UK (230v) socket is live before decorating or a device we think is dead is getting power.so I’m thinking 100kHz AC, AC+DC Voltage Bandwidth (no idea!) won’t be required ?Using arduino’s would I ever need : Logic Level Frequency or Logic Level Duty Cycle Readings.Will the 50000/500000 Count Display be beneficial? Over say the 10000 Count Display?And is Non-Contact EF-Detection essential what a Fluke 1AC stick does as its one of the features that the BM869s doesn’t have.Your thoughts on all of this would appreciated.But just to add a small / possible spanner in.In the UK currently the Rigol 1054z oscilloscope is going for £360 with all the software upgrades bar 100Mhz so (triggering deep men etc). If I ultimately purchase this as well would it duplicate some of the functions of the higher end DMMsCheersSteve

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 06:17:28 pm
content: All of the meters you are looking at are more than adequate for your stated needs. In fact I would say that the BM257S is all the multimeter that the vast majority of hobbyists would need. It does almost anything. What is it lacking? Well AC+DC TRMS is a nice thing to have.IMHO, if price is no object, then get the BM869S or what I think is better, a BM525S plus the data cable. You are not likely to really need 50,000 counts and 0.02% basic accuracy. The BM525S can log up to 87,000 readings at up to 20 times per second. It has all the other functions that the BM869S except for a couple that probably don't matter at all for your use. You can get it with the data cable for less than the price of the BM869S. The BM525S is basically the BM829S with data logging but missing the EF function.You said that this is the last multimeter you are going to buy. Why? Most people here will tell you that having two multimeters is a very helpful thing. You can cross check accuracy if something seems off. You can also measure current and voltage at the same time, or measure input vs output. There are many good reasons to have two. If you do decide to buy two, then I would still recommend the BM525S with data cable and a BM257S as the second meter. This way you a nice small meter for quick use around the shop, plus a full featured meter with data logging.There are other brands too to consider. HAve a look at some of the Amprobe AM5x0 series, Keysight, etc. I am partial to Brymen because I feel they offer the best price to feature and performance than other brands. It is my opinion and that of many others too.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:12:55 pm
content: To be honest if you’re buying a Rigol scope, ignore the DMM for anything other than basic voltage, current and continuity/resistance indication and poking around on the mains. That’s what it excels at. The Rigol will do all the audio level AC measurements and digital stuff for you. I’d go for a basic but safe DMM so bottom end reputable brand like Fluke or Keysight. Main requirements are that it has mV and mA ranges if you’re working on electronics instead of electrical work. While some people must have 50,000 count DMMs you won’t need it at all.Youre not going to get a meter that lasts like that maplin one did nowadays and the Rigol you’ll be lucky if you get 5 years out of it. It’s a complicated beast made by a relatively low bidder. Not a massive fan of Brymen if I’m honest as service and support is minimal in the U.K. compared to Keysight or Fluke.Non contact voltage indication is useful if you’re an electrician or doing DIY but it’s really not good enough to rely on. One miss is all it takes. Best to avoid the problem by powering everything down before doing work.If you’re going to buy Rigol, Rigol UK/Telonic I’ve had luck with.On the DMM front I recently bought a Keysight U1241C. It’s pretty fantastic compared to some of the cheaper meters on the market and siginificantly cheaper than a mid range fluke.

author: beenosam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:25:01 pm
content: To be honest,I'd recommend you buy the cheapest gear that does the job adequately for you since you are a beginner. You don't want to have it sit around and gather dust with all the money you spent on it if you have less time or just aren't as into it as you initially figured.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:27:45 pm
content: Start by writing downwhatneedto dowhat youcando with your existing equipmentwhat youcan'tdo with your existing equipmentThen find the cheapest way forward.Of course, if you want "new shiny", that's perfectly legitimate - provided you recognise that's your motivation!

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:33:38 pm
content: Good advice.Needfor audio: shitty old analogue scope, keep the maplin DMM

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 07:36:14 pm
content: Good general advice guys, but....You musn't assume that someone wants to spend the least amount of money but might want better quality. Cheapest is rarely the best buy.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 08:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on March 03, 2018, 07:36:14 pmAgreed, but "cheapest" includes more than just price

author: danadak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2018, 09:04:05 pm
content: QuoteFrequency yes, quite handy, as the Rigol has an internal frequency counter,for periodic wave measurement. Complex waves segment frequency can bedone with cursors.Rigol 1054Z has hack that enables 100 Mhz and all features, eevblog has a lengthy thread on this topic.Another advantage in embedded work is Rigol has decoding for busses, like I2C for example.To help trouble shoot code handling for I2C peripherals.And of course it has digital filter capability on inputs to screen out signals you do notwant to view. Very handy. And so much more, like FFT where you can look at spectrum.In terms of duping scope capabilities with higher ended DMMs its a mixed bag. The DMMtypically much more absolute accurate than scope. But scope can do some complex datalogging via auxiliary PC software that the higher ended DMMs dont have, except very basicmeasure/transmit data, with no significant processing. This is a very broad subject....Regards, Dana.

author: Cacus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 09:13:48 am
content: Many thanks for all the quick and helpful responses.Obviously I will look into the other meters mentioned here. I initially looked at the Brymens as they've had some good reviews and seem to be a better bang per buck that others like Flukes for example.QuoteI won't lie there is an element of that. But then I think that's always the case when somethings a hobby. That said, I realise there is a fine line between indulgence and practicality.QuoteOh don't worry the Maplin DDM will be kept.... I mean after 38 years it's practically family!I assume (and this is were noob ignorance comes in) that with audio as I will mainly be concerned about 20Hz to 44.1KHz that the scope frequency is not going to be much of a concern? Though not sure of the recommended frequency requirements for the Arduino. But I assume 50Mhz / 100Mhz would be more than adequate.Going forward then I'll probablylook towards as lower end DMM (100 quid-ish) and save the cash to put towards the Rigol or similar. Which will probably be a few months down the line.Again, Thanks to all.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 10:16:27 am
content: Quote from: Cacus on March 04, 2018, 09:13:48 amFor audio scopes, you may need to consider the minimum sensitivity.For audio DSOs. you may need to consider the ADC resolution and the effects that will have on the dynamic range and harmonics. The Digilent Analog Discovery has a 14 bit ADC, while many scopes only have an 8-bit DAC.For an Arduino in a benign environment (i.e. no EMI/EMC/noise/signal integrity problems) 50MHz is OK but I would prefer 100MHz. Some scopes 50MHz scopes can be hacked.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 10:50:17 am
content: 100MHz allows you to see when your amplifier is oscillating as well. Although that tends to make an appearance on analogue scopes a little better than the DS1054Z

author: josip
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 01:47:11 pm
content: Quote from: Cacus on March 04, 2018, 09:13:48 amI was thinking about buying BM257. At the end I took 24$ Aneng AN8009 (max voltage I am dealing with is 12V). And Siglent SDS1202X-E.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2018, 02:57:10 pm
content: You don't need to buy expensive to get a good multi meter for hobby work.The fluke is $269 and the CSI2205D is $39. I have the CSI2205D but rebranded as a Mastercraft and it works great.I have a Fluke TS-1000 (was around $120 when I got it) and it no better than the Mastercraft.You buy expensive names you just paying 100's of dollars for a name.Save your money for other equipment.