Xilinx's "Device Lookup" Service - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 03:01:39 pm
content: For a while now Xilinx has been printing 2D barcodes on their FPGA chips. To read and interpret this barcode you need the XilinxGo app for IOS or Android.That would make looking up the parameters of any particular chip easy, no? But leave it to Xilinx to make use of this feature subject to their approval--you need to submit a request to access the service.As strictly an FPGA hobbyist without a fancy corporate email address, they denied my access request. What are they trying to protect here? As far as I know the app gives you info like the part number, pin count, manufacturing location, and a few other things. What is so sensitive about this info?This crap reminds me of the chip manufacturers who make you jump through hoops like signing NDAs just to get a bloody datasheet out of them.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2020, 10:55:12 pm
content: Unfortunately, Xilinx may not consider access to such information useful to hobbyist, or they might not be making enough sales to hobbyist to make it worth their effort to give anyone off the street access to XilinxGo.I know how this thinking may seem short sighted to us, but, they must feel different. A kind of luxury when you have only 2-3 competitors and you control most of a market segment.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 12:46:47 am
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 13, 2020, 10:55:12 pmI'll say it again--what are they trying to protect? And when you say "worth their effort" to give anyone access to XininxGo, do you think it actually requires an effort? It's just an iPhone app--why even bother to restrict access to the device lookup part of the app? Makes no sense. It's not like the info this app decodes off the 2D barcode includes secret encryption keys or anything...You cite competition as a reason, but again that makes no sense. How does giving all of their customers access to this information as opposed to giving it to only privileged ones hurt their competitiveness? Yes, I'm only a hobbyist, but I'm still acustomer.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 01:28:41 am
content: I'm trying to demonstrate a view or feeling Xilinx has internally which created this policy. Whether that view is based on fact, or imaginary, or wrong all together make a difference to them.I personally would open up the XilinxGo app, but I am not an exec at Xilinx.Xilinx will not change unless someone proves to management it will improve their profits.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 03:53:43 am
content: All you have to do is have an email account on a domain other than public webmail services. I think university emails work too, but it's not hard to register a domain and set up a receive only mail server.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 04:18:54 am
content: Quote from: OwO on July 14, 2020, 03:53:43 amDidn’t work for me. I do have my own domain that I receive email on.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 05:45:38 am
content: I would guess that they don't want to deal with people that won't end up buying a bunch of FPGAs from them. All the FPGA vendors seam to be targeting the big fish costumers since most of the chips they make are way too expensive for the most regular projects.Plus there are probably some decisions made by the big bosses with degrees in business and management that have no idea about the electronics industry but are determined to "Protect there valuable IP and trademarks while maximizing profit"They still have regular partnumbers printed next to the 2D barcode right?Tho id find it surprising they would deny a email to a domain of your own. Perhaps they expect to see a company web page at that address too?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 02:14:15 pm
content: What especially sucks is that for new chips using this lookup is the only way to find out device's speed grade as it's no longer etched on the package.

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 04:18:29 pm
content: As far as I can see, the barcode only gives you the Lot Code?The below barcode outputs the string "DF26016A0005". Can you not see the Lot Code on the chip anyway?

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 05:24:05 pm
content: Quote from: EverydayMuffin on July 14, 2020, 04:18:29 pmNewer devices don't have speed grade and temperature rating. Check a photo of the board in the thread from my signature - you can see FPGA markings there.Or check out this photo:It's got no SG and temp markings either. And the only way to find them out is to use the lookup. I can't even begin to think why didn't Xilinx allow access to this service to everyone. This move makes no sense to me whatsoever.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 05:31:07 pm
content: I wonder if this is a way to deter back-door surplus ICs coming from questionable sources.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 05:42:34 pm
content: Quote from: BrianHG on July 14, 2020, 05:31:07 pmWhy would they care if chips were later resold as long as these chips were originally sold by Xilinx?If they want to detect stolen and illegal stuff that was never tracked, they would've done the opposite and gave access to everyone in order to make this fishing net as large as possible. Like I said, it makes no sense.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 05:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on July 13, 2020, 03:01:39 pmNDA's are NOT crap ! An NDA is in existence because either- someone paid lots of money to get access to the device first and lock out competitors from using the same device.- protect IP from leaking out- not have to deal with every clown that thinks he can use this complex device and bombard the forums and support channels with questions.( of course all expected for free ! ) Sign an NDA , prove that you are serious and you have a viable product and we'll do business.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 06:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 14, 2020, 05:55:52 pmMaybe from the perspective of a chip maker. I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to FPGAs, but I'm in the embedded industry and frequently look for new parts to use in designs and I can tell you that whenever I come across a part that requires an NDA to get a datasheet I skip that manufacturer and look elsewhere. Unless someone has a part so unique that there's no other choice I won't give manufacturers who demand an NDA the time of day.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 07:22:37 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on July 14, 2020, 06:45:38 pmIt works both ways . the fact that the designs you do can be done without requiring NDA's makes so that the manufacturer of such parts also wouldn't give you the light of day.The same goes for products that require certification ( usb , wifi, bluetooth etc.. ) You have to pay to get the specs and the certification. If you can't handle that :buy a ready made pre-certified module.Wanna do anything that is life-impacting ? can't use any standard part as none of em are approved for such use.. Need such parts ? sign on the dotted line please ...Other scenarios : Complex SOC with 'tilt bits'. Case in point : raspberry pi. Why is that not open source ? becasue they cant ! The development of such silicon takes a fair amount of money. The maskset is horrifically expensive. So , we will spend a little bit more and bake in a bunch of features that can be disabled using tilt bits. Same thing for the boot system. if we find issues post-mask ( things we could not fully cover in simulation ) we can apply tilt and disable or re-route items. This is part of the internal household of the manufacturer/ designer.so with 1 mask they can make 2 or 3 devices. Depending on the tilt bits you get one or the other. or a different speed grade.Some processors are available with different memory sizes. Do you really think that are different masks ? Same mask. the memory bits are programmed during test to mask off the banks. The flash is partitioned in multiple banks. they can alter the mapping in hardware. if there is a bunc of corrupt cells in bottom half , they swap with top half and sell it as the lower memory version. There isnothing wrong with the chip. just speck of dust on the mask killed some of the memory. mark it disabled and move on ...There is no chance you will ever find out how that system works and what all is possible. the Raspberry pi needs to boot from a pre-packaged binary that contains bugfixes , mappings and features. that boot sauce sets up the devices and then seals it. you can't start without that package. The package is built for your 'capabiliteis set'. It is highly likely the same processor can be sold with more memory , faster speed , and more features just by altering the bootcode. But you will never get to know. Even an NDA there will not disclose how that works.

author: EverydayMuffin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 07:27:25 pm
content: Quote from: asmi on July 14, 2020, 05:24:05 pmInteresting, I didn't know that. The barcode on your chip (below) outputs "XIUGHXBJ10800482". I wonder if there's a way to determine speed grade and temperature rating from that...

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2020, 11:16:33 pm
content: Quote from: EverydayMuffin on July 14, 2020, 07:27:25 pmAttached is the kind of information that device lookup shows (and least did show in the past when I had access to it). To me it looks more like some sort of unique ID that refers to information in their database.