Yet another multimeter suggestion request...  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 12:36:17 pm
content: I do realise this is an all too common thread subject, but I cannot think of a better place to ask... Up until a few months ago, my "everyday" multimeter was a Fluke 117, which ticked a lot of boxes for me, but ultimately had a few fatal flaws, most notably the absence of a mA range, and the poor readability of the LCD display. I got rid of it, thinking I would get something better, but I've been distracted by other projects and never got round to making a decision. Now however, I am only a couple weeks away from a major project, where I will be working on site and where my TTi bench multimeter won't be suitable. So I urgently need to buy a new handheld multimeter, but I cannot seem to find an "ideal" candidate. I need something with the following attributes (roughly in order of priority):Small sizeBacklit LCD w. "always on"Industrial durabilityTrue RMSMin 6,000 countsmA & mV rangesHold, min/max & averageBargraphCapacitance and frequencyPrice <£300Bonus points for any of the following:Counter functionDual display"Touch hold" functionRS232/USB connectionTemperatureI know this sounds very much like a Fluke 87V, but are there anysmallermeters out there with a similar spec? Ilovedthe size of the 117...

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:06:23 pm
content: Size is a problem. You may have to compromise.Best bet: Sanwa PC773.Same size as the 117, but lighter at 360gr instead of 550gr.http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/items/detail.php?id=17

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:15:33 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 12:36:17 pmFluke 115 comes in at about half your budget. 'Size' is subjective but I think it ticks all those boxes:http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/digital-multimeters/Fluke-115.htm?PID=55993

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:17:33 pm
content: Hmmm. Intersting.Doesn't seem to be available in Europe though?

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:21:08 pm
content: Free shipping from Japan:http://www.ebay.com/itm/SANWA-Electric-Digital-Multi-Meter-PC-773-Digital-Test-Equipment-F-S-from-JAPAN-/291807686031?hash=item43f117ed8f:g:QSYAAOSwEjFXddOZ

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:24:28 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 18, 2017, 03:15:33 pmI do like the design and form factor of the 114/115/116/117 but no, none of them have a mA range. There's a uA range on the 116, which is as useless to me as the 10A range. Most of the stuff I deal with is in the 1mA to 500mA range. Then there's that atrocious LCD display... Really, Fluke should be ashamed of themselves releasing a meter with such a poor quality display.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 18, 2017, 03:21:08 pmYep, found that one - but what about customs/VAT? Would likely end up costing more than a Fluke 87V!

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:27:32 pm
content: Possibly.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 18, 2017, 03:27:32 pmAlways a bit of a gamble - sometimes I've had stuff come through without any fees! But yeah, the Fluke 87V is in a completely different league, and I'm quite tempted - just worried about the space it will take up in my already very cramped toolbox... Alas, I don't drive, or I would solve the problem by getting a bigger toolbox, but I'm already at the limit for what I can carry - not to mention check in on a flight.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 03:24:28 pmHow much of that work is in single digit milliamps?Those meters don't have a range selection that says 'mA' but they'll measure down to a milliamp quite happily. For 10mA and upwards they're quite accurate.(but I guess you already know that if you've owned a 117)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:40:47 pm
content: Does 'SANWA' branding pass the test for "on site" work?(ie. do you need to impress the clients?)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 03:33:14 pmThe thing is... physical size is related to safety. The higher up the ladder you go, the safer (and bigger) they get.There's not much you can do about that.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:49:03 pm
content: Played a bit withhttp://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/items/detail.php?id=19which seems similar. It's an ok instrument but somewhat annoying, slow scratchy continuity,etc. Was nicely built tho but I'd go for a Brymen. Sanwa 500/5000 have brymen ICs inside but are not very rugged, don't know about the new 700/7000 series.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 03:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 18, 2017, 03:48:13 pmSafety how? There's no way I can hold an 87V safely in one hand. Maybe your hands a bigger than mine. The 117 was the perfect size - and much less likely to hurt anyone if you were drop it on their headEdit:I think the problem with the humongous Flukes is an Americanism; "bigger is better". I'm European, and for me, smaller is better. To a point of course.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:11:14 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on April 18, 2017, 03:49:03 pmThe Brymen 820 series looks great, from a specs perspective, but while it is a little more grip friendly (the lower section is narrower than the top), it's actually larger than the Fluke 87V overall:Brymen 820 series208x103x64.5mm (with holster)Fluke 87201 x 98 x 52 mm (with holster)

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:13:37 pm
content: If your budget is about 300 £, consider Fluke 17x series. Made in USA, not compatible with Fluke 11x. 11x - it's a toy for Chinese market

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:16:49 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on April 18, 2017, 04:13:37 pmThat might indeed be the one, thanks!Fluke 110 series160 x 96 x 46 mm (with holster)Brymen 820 series208x103x64.5mm (with holster)Fluke 80 series201 x 98 x 52 mm (with holster)Fluke 170 series185 x 90 x 43 mm (with holster)

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:19:43 pm
content: I owned Fluke 179, but I change it at Fluke 287. I loved my 179, it's are true well made! It's just little bigger that 11x, but have excellent clear display TL175 leads and thermocouple includedhttps://youtu.be/FoqF37-Y2P8

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:23:38 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on April 18, 2017, 04:19:43 pmCool. Then I just have to ask, what made you upgrade to the 287? The 170 series is undeniably short on bells+whistles...

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:33:08 pm
content: I use my 287 primary at home, and I need logging possibility. I have old chinese Mastek or something else and it enough to check battery in my carBut believe me, when you take 179 at hand, you filling well made robust DMM! It's not compartible with 11x even.I want to add more... if you'll scratch your 179 or whatever, go at Fluke Store at Ebay and you'll find any case/display/other part that you'll need replace! No such ones for 11x

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on April 18, 2017, 04:33:08 pmGotcha. I've got aTTi 1705bench meter at home, which I got hold of for cheap. Been carrying my old school multimeter since I got rid of the Fluke 117 - an old Tillquist which I've had since I was 16. And hey,you can read its screen from any angle- and it has two mA ranges, and even a mV range of sorts - so three up on the 117 thereIt is also extremely compact at just 125 x 68 x 25mm. But yeah, no RMS, no backlight, no min/max/avg, and highly questionable precision...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:53:35 pm
content: Quote from: serggio on April 18, 2017, 04:13:37 pmI was going to suggest that but no bar graph. Size is somewhere between 117 and 87V and they measure just about everything. It's a good option if you can live without a bar graph. Price is about $120 on eBay (you have to import them).Edit: Oh, I thought "17x" meant Fluke 17B+.Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 03:59:06 pmIncreased safety means they have to leave bigger gaps between the components on the PCB so sparks can't jump around inside.Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 03:59:06 pmThat, too. If you're driving a pickup truck you want everything else to be massive or it'll look like you bought a car that's too big.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 04:55:41 pm
content: I like my Fluke 87 but it is a bit on the chunky side. I think the reason for the size is partly to make the display large and easy to see, and partly the bulky holster and heavy duty construction to make it durable. It's always a tradeoff between size, features and ease of use.I don't mind a bulky meter so much, what gets me is the gigantic mobile phones that have flooded the market but that's another topic altogether.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 05:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on April 18, 2017, 04:53:35 pmThat may be true for industrial HV applications, but I've certainly never measured anything that made sparks jump around inside a multimeter. Nothing to stop Fluke catering to the electronics market separately from their HV/intrinsically safe products - most of us don't deal with those situations, in fact we're probably not even allowed to, in European countries anyway.Quote from: Fungus on April 18, 2017, 04:53:35 pmQuote from: james_s on April 18, 2017, 04:55:41 pm^ This. One million times this.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 05:07:35 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 04:11:14 pmNot sure if the BM257 fits all your requirements but it's small, bargraph,6k counts, true RMS etc... Take a look at dave's teardown/review.http://www.brymen.com/cata250/BM250_Catalog.pdfNothing wrong with the sanwa but I think you'd feel a bit disappointed after a fluke. Their higher series 700/7000 looks nice but not sure about the size.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 05:20:26 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on April 18, 2017, 05:07:35 pmSweeet. 161x80x50mm (with holster) - it's actually smaller than the Fluke 110 seriesLots of nice extra functions; it's even got a serial port of some sort. And it's available to buy in the UK for £150 delivered. Unless anyone has any other suggestions, I think I might go for it!

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 05:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 05:05:42 pmTrue, till you being tired, don't forget switch your DMM selector into Volts form Resistance and do not put leads in outlet socket. In this situation clear understand difference between Fluke or other safe DMMs and chip Chinese DMM

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 05:57:39 pm
content: I did that once, I was alternating between checking current and checking voltage and forgot to move the probes, put them directly across 120V and there was a bright flash as the tip of one of the probes was vaporized but it was otherwise surprisingly boring. Blew an expensive fuse in the meter but after replacing that it continued to work perfectly.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 06:09:34 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on April 18, 2017, 05:57:39 pmNot going to happen with a Metrawatt Metrahit2+.Ok its big and the backlight switches off after one minutebut otherwise also one for the OP to consider."out in the field" small size is convenient but reliability and durability a must!https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metrahit2.htmEdit:If capacitance measurement is needed and the OP can do without a rubber holster (without its about the same size as fluke 175) and calibration certificate there is the dmm16 (should also be within budget):https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metraline-dmm16.htm

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 06:14:50 pm
content: In my case it was a Fluke 77, good solid meter, I only replaced it because I wanted true RMS. Unfortunately the Fluke 187 I replaced it with lacks the very convenient diode test beep

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2017, 10:12:47 pm
content: Quote from: The Soulman on April 18, 2017, 06:09:34 pmAh. Gossen. Nice. Bit tall perhaps, at 195 x 84 x 35mm (without holster), but damn, I always wanted a Gossen - if only to be the coolest kid on the block. Bonus points for the duty cycle measurement, very useful! Do you know if the Metraline series is made in the EU?

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 12:34:41 am
content: It's gonna be the Brymen BM257s- just ordered and paid, £140 inc shipping from TME, and that includes the "KITBRUA-20X" IR serial/USB link + software, and the "BMH-01" magnetic holder. Final decider was when I saw that the updated "s" version of the BM257 has raised the current measuring capacity from 8A, which I thought was a bit measly, to a healthier 10A. That, and the small size; there simply doesn't seem to beanyother (quality) meter on the market which packs so many features into such a compact format.Thanks to everyone for their suggestions - and especially lem_ix for nudging me in the Brymen direction!

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 09:46:22 am
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 19, 2017, 12:34:41 amThe CEM DT-989 may be the winner in that category.Only slightly longer than the 257 (9mm), but difficult to obtain outside of Asia.

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 11:16:06 am
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 18, 2017, 10:12:47 pm"Made in Germany" it says on mine..

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 11:20:26 am
content: Dong Xuan Center in Berlin?

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 11:55:21 am
content: Quote from: The Soulman on April 19, 2017, 11:16:06 amGood to hear - I hate it when top line manufacturers outsource to somelow wageslave economy; quality isalwayscompromised, and it's no fun paying for a premium product only to find it says "designed in Germany, made in PRC" or some crap like that. My poor experience of the Fluke 117 is one such example, but there are countless other companies who have decided to cash in on their brands - brands which it has often taken generations to build up. Yes, Sennheiser, I'm looking at you.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 02:28:15 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 19, 2017, 09:46:22 amThink Peaktech rebrands ithttp://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/peaktech-3441.htmlBut would take a Brymen over cem, not thrilled about my current cem/peaktech 3360.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 03:35:02 pm
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 19, 2017, 09:46:22 amBut with a rather pathetic +/-1.5% +5 digits DCA "precision", whereas the Brymen guarantees a more reasonable +/-0.5% +3 digits.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 08:28:10 pm
content: http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/124600/Handheld-multimeter-digital-VOLTCRAFT-VC-890-OLED-DMM-OLED-display-Data-logger-CAT-III-1000-V-CAT-IV-600-V-Display-c?ref=searchDetailVoltcraft VC-890 is best! I got new for 230e before christmas,it was discounted,normaly it cost 300 - 280e.its 60000 count,0.003% accuracy,freqency counter is 20mhz I believe,oled,ceramic fuses.Its as good as the most expensive keysight or fluke but significantly cheaper.There is also teardown on youtube.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 08:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on April 19, 2017, 08:28:10 pmWow, that looks nice. Dual display as well - and it's an OLED screen. Impressive specs too. It is a big beast though!

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 09:14:47 pm
content: VOLTCRAFT...FunnyNew chinese brand...This products like are serious one, calibrated to....:http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/1299043/Handheld-multimeter-digital-VOLTCRAFT-PM-37-Calibrated-to-Manufacturer-standards-CAT-I-Display-counts-999?ref=searchDetailhttp://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/1218859/Handheld-multimeter-analogue-VOLTCRAFT-VC-5080-Calibrated-to-Manufacturer-standards-CAT-III-500-V?ref=searchDetailIf somebody want to have analog multimeter in robust 0,5mm steel carrying case for collection, I'll sold it on EbayThis device at least have mirror strip at analog display for fine reading under right angleVOLTCRAFT need to do theirMultimeters Assortment listlink clickable on their Website, before offer "serious measuring devices" to the customers..

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 10:03:47 pm
content: Someone more informed can confirm but Voltcraft is Conrad's rebrand badge. I've seen some Uni-T rebadge meter of theirs. Think the protection was fixed a bit to comply with eu standards. Still 280 eur is a bit too much for a Uni-T as far as I'm concerned.

author: serggio
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2017, 10:23:03 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on April 19, 2017, 10:03:47 pmUni-T, Volcraft,APPA- presented as russian brand (really OEM Chinese cooperative society as first two), probably this is devices cover needs those who need measure something... This products for hypermarket's shelf, for those who go buying hummer, nails and probably DDM in additional to...

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 01:52:58 am
content: Can't go wrong with the Fluke 87V. Diode test beep, Auto Hold/Touch Hold, always on backlight, perfect continuity tester, fast Peak Min/Max, super long battery life, the list goes on. If I could have only one meter, this would be it. For a second meter, maybe an 87III for the high res (1000 count) bar graph or an original series 88 for the Change Alert (no other meter has anything like it) and also the high res (2000 count) bar graph. Basically, the 80 series can't be beat.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 03:33:59 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on April 20, 2017, 01:52:58 am...and a pickup truck.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 09:14:14 am
content: Quote from: Lomax on April 19, 2017, 03:35:02 pmWhat are you drinking?It's a 50,000 count meter with an accuracy of 0.1%+5 and a resolution of 0.1uA.The 257 is in a junior league.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 10:37:56 am
content: Quote from: Wytnucls on April 20, 2017, 09:14:14 amLOL, I'm such an idiot.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 02:38:45 pm
content: The Brymen has arrived! Seems ok, though it neither looks nor feels as nice as the Fluke 110 series. The backlight is a nice colour, but goes out after an annoyingly short period. Screen is unreadable from steep angles (on the Fluke this happened at shallow angles). But it passes the most important test of them all with flying colours: it actually fits in my toolbox:Edit:Yes, my toolbox is in bad need of a tidy-up.

author: noidea
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 03:38:32 pm
content: Snap! I have a BM257s and use the same multi contact test probes too :-)

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 04:16:03 pm
content: Quote from: noidea on April 20, 2017, 03:38:32 pmBest probes evva! Had them for donkey's years; great for PCB probing, awkward locations, and anything you don't want to get your fingers too close to. They also make a most satisfying "plop" sound when you unplug them. Ahhh, the little things in life...Edit:Do you have the same toolbox as well by any chance?Raaco Compact- highly recommended!

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2017, 04:26:09 pm
content: Looks good in the toolbox, hope it serves you well