ST Microelectronics decided to introduce their own sanctions on a country - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 01:59:26 am
content: Recently tried to download st-link to assist students/startup project, and boom, instead of download button it shows "Download unavailable".After some debugging i found it is related to geolocation. Wrote to support and here is answer i got:QuoteAttempted to communicate with them in social media ... well, let's say, ST in our century is present there purely nominally. Just posting press-releases.I understand that Lebanon is not the best country, and sanctions exist on this country, BUT - they are related to weapons only, they have existed for more than 10 years, and that’s all. Nobody ever completely restricted downloads, even such cautious guys as PLC vendors, ex. Siemens. (some downloads, export-restricted, need approval, but at least it is possible, while on st - not).There is still a list of sanctioned individuals, but these are individual sanctions, as it exist in all countries.I’m wondering if the person who decided to "insure his ass from possible problems" has a conscience and, because "just in case", deprived the professionals and students of the whole country of access to technology.And this is a great example why people might consider CS32 clones, GD32 - as alternative, and sure opensource tools. Because, how much trust will there be in ST Microelectronics after such actions?You can assume some manager might decide "just in case" and block your country.And of course i do not lose hope that someone there will hear and reconsider the decision.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 02:46:57 pm
content: It's far from just weapons that are subject to export control, and even then, the definition of 'weapon' for the purposes of export control can be very broad. Lots of items have both mundane and nefarious applications, and there are some things that are controlled for economic or political reasons rather than strategic/military reasons.The US in particular has fairly onerous export controls, and I wouldn't be surprised if ST was restricting your access to the software to comply with US controls (perhaps the software is developed at least in part in the US, or their lawyers have determined that their presence in the US means they need to comply with US controls). Cryptography is often the reason for strict controls on things like this. Items that originate in other countries would be subject to different export controls, hence why you've been able to get access to items that you might otherwise expect to be controlled. Or perhaps those other items simply don't fall into a category that has such strict controls in effect for your country, you'd have to take a careful look at the item in question and figure out its export classification to figure that out.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 02:56:49 pm
content: Short term solution: Use a VPN.Long term solution: Move abroad.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 03:49:09 pm
content: My comment may or may not be related to your immediate problem, but offering it as a sincere suggestion:You may want to change your screen name also.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 04:07:59 pm
content: NXP seems to have no problems being active in Lebanon. They even organise a contest in Beirut:https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/nxp-cup-2019-now-starts-the-battles-of-the-participants

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 05:11:19 pm
content: If you thought the world was currently at peace, think again.http://visionofhumanity.org/app/uploads/2019/07/GPI-2019web.pdf

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 05:51:22 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on August 27, 2019, 02:56:49 pmBecause we know how welcoming the US is right now??

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 06:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: boffin on August 27, 2019, 05:51:22 pmThere are much better places to move to. A good electronics engineer (even a student) shouldn't have a problem finding a good spot somewhere.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 06:42:41 pm
content: Most likely ST is under heavy influence by Israeli lobbies or Israeli investors. They were told to make life hard for Lebanon, and ST complied.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 07:12:06 pm
content: Before we start blaming Israel as usual for all these problems, let us review ST Micro's own page related to their policies regarding exporting (including downloading software) to sanctioned countries:https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/common/export-regulation-acceptance.htmlRead the last paragraph....QuoteAnd let us also remember that the USA and EU has a number of sanctions against Lebanon, and ST Micro just doesn't want to poke the beehive with a stick so they just blanket BLOCK everyone in a region, whether it is RIGHT or WRONG or FAIR.But it is important not to jump to any conclusions as to who and what power players here are influencing ST's decision until you find out from the source itself... ST Micro. My gut instinct is that they don't want trouble from the USA like some other major corporations have had recently (who did business with Iran, for example). This is ST Micro trying to save their ass, nothing to do with any foreign country trying to undermine Lebanese people from downloading software, which can easily be circumvented through VPN's or proxies.And if Israel did really want to do such a thing and had the influence on ST Micro, they would have embedded code in the downloads to certain countries with their own backdoors, spyware and worms to let them infiltrate their systems. So No.... ST Micro is just taking care to not piss off any EU regulations or US interests that would have them get in trouble.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 08:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: edy on August 27, 2019, 07:12:06 pmyeh, it is similar to the occasionally story of a distributor requiring detailed export control papers filled out for a reel ofstandard resistors

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 09:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 27, 2019, 07:07:26 pmNeutral to what? There is something very wrong with your views of world politics. Supposed to be... What does it even mean?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2019, 10:51:30 pm
content: Here is a link to what you want to download (ST-LINK), let us know if it doesn't work:https://my.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/software/utility/51/c4/6a/b0/e2/0f/47/e5/stsw-link004.zip/files/stsw-link004.zip/_jcr_content/translations/en.stsw-link004.ziphttps://www.electrodragon.com/w/ST-Link

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2019, 12:11:27 am
content: Quote from: ajb on August 27, 2019, 02:46:57 pmYes, it would be an application of various higher level export controls. In this case the product it could have be caught up incorrectly, or it's deemed to be a "tool" of some description that could enable.For example, some extremely fast FET's and other devices are export controlled because they can be used in the trigger systems for implosion nuclear devices. Doesn't matter that there are a thousand other legit uses for them.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2019, 12:12:44 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 27, 2019, 03:21:09 pmThis ends now, cut it out Blueskull.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2019, 02:11:46 am
content: Quote from: boffin on August 27, 2019, 05:51:22 pm. "Abroad" means US ? Interesting !

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2019, 02:56:05 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 28, 2019, 01:12:33 amPerhaps you didn't get the message. You have a history of posts like this that drag topics was off-topic into politics. Stop it.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2019, 01:04:06 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on August 27, 2019, 03:49:09 pmMy screenname is 20+ years old and tied to lot of things in my life.Thank you but no.I understand perfectly well that i may meet some stupid person who may be afraid of the "nuclear" part, but if he is so stupid, even if I change nickname, the stupidity of this person will always find a reason to cling to something else.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2019, 01:56:05 am
content: I’m probably naive, but I hope that common sense will appear at ST.For me suggestion "move abroad" is easy, i am a foreigner. But ... this is a small country which is now at a crossroads, to turn into another rogue state or to become a civilized country again.Recently freshgrads began to appear, who are engaged in electronics more seriously than a blinky on arduino. Almost all of these young people are very good people. But they need help at the beginning of their career, help of someone who has more experience.Many of these young people do not have the opportunity to leave(yet), for a start they need to earn money to relocate, and knowledge+experience to find job at new place.I saw also that many Lebanese worked outside, gained experience, returned after many years and try to make their homeland better.And now they are subject to collective punishment. I would prefer that such talents will love the world and peace, and make nice products like, for example, Roadie Tuner (lebanese guys did it), and not something bad, out of hatred,because rest of world rejected them.As I understand it, those who are really under sanctions don’t give a damn about all these restrictions, they will easily get around them.Who is punished now - students, young engineers and those who returned to the country to establish production here, although they did nothing wrong.This country has a lot of problems that could be resolved to a large extent by proper engineering, including EE (electricity, telecommunications, transport, etc.).The specifics of this problems (unique to the country), the small size of the market is the reason that no one from the outside world is interested in solving them, and if the country has its own engineers, they can do it.P.S. If all the experienced people will run away at the slightest difficulty to a "warmer place", then we on the direct path to dividing our planet in the ghetto and paradise. And it will not end in anything good.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2019, 02:05:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 28, 2019, 12:11:27 amThey blocked almost all downloads from the site. I don't think st-link and CubeMX are tools that can be called "dual-use" or export-restricted.I can still download datasheets.

author: nuclearcat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2019, 02:11:08 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 28, 2019, 01:12:33 amLebanon don't have oil and natural resources. Country Size ~120x88km.The maximum that they can count on (and are trying to do) is the export of skilled people and small-scale production of region-specific products.