Which "precision" multimeter? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Mavro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 02:24:58 am
content: I've been using my trusty Fluke 77 multimeter for 10 years now and I need something more precision to test power supply rails for certification of our product. I need a True RMS multimeter as accurate as my price range (up to $1100) -- it looks like the Fluke 289 is a nice option given it provides a handheld form factor, RMS and 50,000 counts -- the data logging is a plus, but not really needed because most other multimeters have the ability to connect a PC to do data logging.So the open question to the forum -- which "precision" multimeter, bench or handheld would you highly recommend to someone in my price range?Thanks!

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 02:26:28 am
content: agilent 34461a fits that price range. dave even has a review and a teardown of it.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 02:27:30 am
content: LOL! I was about to post the same thing (and from a fellow canuck as well, sheesh!). It looks like the very beast you need.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 02:27:52 am
content: Forget fluke. Agilent 34410 or 34411 or a 34460

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 03:03:01 am
content: At that price range, yeah, that's bench meter territory, and hard to beat the Agilent 34461AThe built in stats features are cool.Like getting this noise histogram of my uCurrent.No PC needed.

author: Mavro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 04:20:22 am
content: Nice -- the Agilent 34461A is in the lead -- too bad no capacitance readings.What do you guys think of the Rigol DM3068? Any good?http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-multimeters/dm3000/dm3068/

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 04:24:16 am
content: Quote from: Mavro on December 30, 2013, 04:20:22 amYeah, but not as good as the Agilent. The Signal Path has a review of it.Get an LCR meter for caps.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2013, 06:59:44 am
content: If you prefer something portable, the 1,200,000 count Gossen MetraHit 30M is within your budget, but the logging interface and software cost extra:https://www.valuetronics.com/detail/New-gossen-metrawatt-metrahit-30m-m230b.cfm#.UsEYYblfr4Y

author: Mavro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 03:31:52 am
content: Would a good oscilloscope be more accurate than the Agilent 34461A? I am typically dealing with DC voltages -- I have one of those hacked Rigols (DS1052E). Confused with all these "tools" -- Handheld multimeters vs. Bench vs OScope. I know the scope does a lot more but shouldn't it also provide an accurate voltage or not?

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 03:41:01 am
content: No. Not by a country mile.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 03:55:16 am
content: Curiously I've never read about or heard anyone talking about scope ADC references, temp co or drift... Is it that far down in the list of scope specs priorities that it can be considered un-usable for anything other than approximations?

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 04:10:32 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on January 06, 2014, 03:55:16 amGain amp accuracy, internal voltage ref accuracy and bit resolution. All of these will be lower in a scope of the same value. Most sub $1000 scopes have at most 3 digits of accuracy from what I have seen.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 09:57:23 am
content: I use a Keithly 2000. Bought it new 3 years ago and it is still spot on. Has a much wider TRMS range as the specs give. I tested it upto 1 MHz together with a Prema 7,5 digit meter that is spec'd at 1 MHz but the 2000 was better in bandwidth and crestfactor. Only thing is that he does not has a AD+DC mode like my Agilent handheld 4.5 digit, my 7,5d Prema and 7,5d SolartronIt looks rather outdated , does not have fancy graph modes (but I do not mis that) but it is stable and accurate

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 09:59:52 am
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on January 06, 2014, 09:57:23 amit can also take scanner cards.

author: TiN
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 10:04:38 am
content: And have RS232/GPIB and standard IVI/LabView drivers, which can easy turn it into anything-graph-measurement system

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 12:29:54 pm
content: Gossen Metrahit Energy because it can measure voltage and current at the same time. Also, power, apparent power, reactive power, power factor, energy, Watt-hours ... all extremely useful. More useful, IMHO, than 5 extra digits ...

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2014, 10:34:15 pm
content: 'I need a True RMS multimeter as accurate as my price range (up to $1100)'The 60,000 count Metrahit Energy is a good and feature-packed meter, but the OP was after the most accurate meter within his price range. The 30M with its 1,200,000 count is hard to beat.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 11:14:56 am
content: Yeah, but how many of these counts will actually be valid without a special setup? Resolution != precision. But having said that, yeah, the MH 30M is both more accurate and has a higher resoltion than the Energy.But, OP was considering the 50,000 count Fluke 289, so the MH Energy might fit his needs. And having a single multimeter that measures both voltage and current will save a lot of time and hassle. Here's some other features for comparison:The MH Energy has a 10 times larger log memory (300,000 vs. 30,000 values). The actual memory is 16 times as large (2048K vs. 128K).The MH Energy has an RTC for time stamping log values, the MH 30M doesn't.The MH Energy has a fast continuity buzzer (50ms), the MH 30M doesn't.The MH Energy has a faster data interface (38400 baud vs. 9600).The MH Energy has a backlight, the MH 30M doesn't.The MH Energy can be fully remote controlled from the PC, without changing jacks or operating the rotary switch, the MH30M can't.Both cost about the same. But IMHO, the ability to not just measure DC power, but also true, apparent and reactive power is a killer feature that will make the Energy infinitely more useful in day to day use.It's actually ridiculous that there are virtually no multimeters out there that can measure voltage and current simultaneously. What's up with that?

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 12:18:40 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on January 09, 2014, 11:14:56 amHow is that even possible?

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 12:34:57 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on January 09, 2014, 12:18:40 pmThere are meters that do that. Here's one:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/why-can't-a-multimeter-do-current-and-voltage/msg228518/#msg228518

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 01:15:41 pm
content: What about the Hameg HMC8012?http://www.hameg.com/717.0.html?L=0Thread here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hameg-hmc8012-porn/

author: Mavro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 04:18:10 pm
content: Now I know why Dave has so many multimeters

author: Mavro
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 08:13:11 pm
content: BTW: Looked into the Gossen Metrahit Energy -- it's $1,630.00USD here in the USA!

author: Marvin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2014, 08:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mavro on January 09, 2014, 08:13:11 pmA little bit off topic but it's the same the other way - the only way to get a Fluke in the EU for hobbyist use is to have a friend bring it from the USA in a bag. The price difference between USA and EU is crazy.Example from just now: Fluke 289 is $553.69 at Amazon USA because it has a discount, in Farnell/Element 14 it is $599.95 - in the EU in the same site it goes for €608.00 that is about $826.27.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 01:37:15 am
content: Quote from: Mavro on January 09, 2014, 08:13:11 pmNot really. It is available online for far less, unless your price includes the logging interface and software:https://www.valuetronics.com/detail/New-gossen-metrawatt-metrahit-energy-m249a.cfm#.Us9OBrlfr4Y

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 01:42:04 am
content: Quote from: Marvin on January 09, 2014, 08:33:34 pmI'd really hate to see you end up with the 289. Not that it's a horrible option, just expensive and bulky for the price with shit battery life. If you don't need portable the Agilent 34461 or the Hameg HMC8012 are both excellent meters.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 01:54:01 am
content: For the record, the 30M doesn't need any kind of special setup, apart from a recommended warm-up period of 5 minutes, before accurate measurements are made. If the voltage source being measured is noisy, several filter strengths are available internally, to help steady the readings.Although I wouldn't use such a specialized meter for continuity testing, it is fast enough, once the resolution has been reduced to the minimum, through the set-up menu.The meter is also capable of 4-wire resistance and temperature measurements.There are 2 baud rates available: 9600 and 19200.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 07:32:17 am
content: The 30M is a nice meter, no question. Depends on if you need the accuracy/precision.There's also the 310,000 count Metrahit Ultra:https://www.gossenmetrawatt.com/english/produkte/metrahitultra.htmThis one also comes in a bluetooth version, for remote measuring with your smartphone:https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.ritso.gossenmetrawatt

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2014, 08:15:07 am
content: Quote from: mos6502 on January 10, 2014, 07:32:17 amWell, that's what this thread is about, the most DC accuracy available for less than $1,100, not about the most feature-packed DMM on the market.