New tool! Xray machine - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:27:30 am
content: Hey everyone, just wanted to show you this C-ARM I scored for 600 bucks total. It was sold as “Not working, for parts only”, but it turns out it wasn’t broken at all, the reseller had just selected the wrong source on the display.Of course, for a machine this old there are a few things that don’t work, like the positioning laser and some control buttons on the head. Luckily, those aren’t really needed since the same functions can be accessed from the touchscreen.I took the whole thing apart to check for signs of corrosion (it had been left outside for a week), but didn’t find anything, so that’s good. I also have some pics of the internals I can post if you’re interested.Getting it working was pretty straightforward. I started by cloning the hard drive containing Windows XP in case it fails in the future, and I also reset the admin password that wasn’t provided. Once I got access to the OS, the machine refused to let me enter the X-ray menu because it forces a full recalibration if it has been powered off for more than two weeks. That calibration requires flipping a DIP switch on the X-ray controller board and inserting a CD with the calibration software, which I don’t have.While looking through the system files, I figured out that the previous owners must have been fed up with recalibrating it every two weeks, because there was a random config file sitting on the desktop. After checking the documentation, I found that this was the file generated during calibration. From that, I deduced that the software simply checks the file’s last edit date to decide if calibration is required. I just re-saved it, and boom, the machine started working.The head’s maximum power is 75 kV at 0.100 mA. Thanks to the intensifier tube, it can achieve good quality images even at that relatively low power. It also boasts a pretty remarkable spot size of 45 microns.The pics are :Random Pcie debug cardInduction chargerfake airpodstape measurerCOVR wifi APQG GMC500 geigerram stickleap hand trackerquest 2 (this one is kinda bad quality I exported it wrongly and had to convert it)

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:31:36 am
content: The last pic didn’t go through

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:49:57 am
content: I know very little of Xrays and it will be uncomfortable for me to bring such of device at home for safety.Well done! One day I will reach your level!

author: Simmed
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:55:46 am
content: did you wear the leaded vest when operating ?

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:02:09 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on September 09, 2025, 02:49:57 amThanks! I'm still learning a lot, especially about electronics. Seeing how this machine works was really interesting and gave me ideas for my own projects.In terms of safety, it's easy enough to protect yourself. In my case, the machine is sitting in my garage, far away from anyone. The best protection is distance, which is why I'm standing behind a wall about 4 meters from the machine, the maximum I could get for those shots. I plan to either extend the cable for the foot pedal or control it remotely to get even further away.This machine is also great because the pictures you see were taken with only a fraction of the dose of a typical DIY x-ray machine built by others. This makes it a LOT safer.

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:04:44 am
content: Quote from: Simmed on September 09, 2025, 02:55:46 amIt hasn't arrived yet, sadly, but hopefully soon.I take those shots from a distance, with a wall in between, using the foot pedal of the machine, which was all I had when I first got it working.Now I plan to either extend the cable or add a remote control system to get even further away! You can never be too careful with x-rays.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:25:40 am
content: I have a filling that has been giving me trouble and my dentist wants to charge me like $400 for new xrays... I'm thinking we can work something out...

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:32:41 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on September 09, 2025, 03:25:40 amWe sure can, hit me up 😎Funnily enough, my dad hunts, and I suggested to him and his friend that I could x-ray their dogs when they get hurt. Some of them have a LOT of dogs, and it can get expensive to take them to the vet if nothing’s broken. They were pretty hyped about the idea.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:48:02 am
content: Do you have a reasonable x-ray survey meter to verify the radiation level at your operating position?

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 04:03:16 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 09, 2025, 03:48:02 amI use the crappy GMC-500 to give me a baseline of whether I'm far enough, and I've also ordered an EPD MK2 dosimeter. Thankfully, this machine's power is quite weak, when directly in the X-ray beam, my counters reach only about 350 CPM

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 01:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: ELPoupa on September 09, 2025, 04:03:16 amThat's not going to give a reliable reading. If it's a dental Xray, which is what it looks like, it'll output xrays in short pulses and overload the Geiger-Muller tube until the dead time has expired, resulting in it missing pulses. And like GM tubes, semiconductor detectors also won't work because they have the same overloading problem, in technical terms they're paralysable. To get a reliable reading you'd need to use something like a film dosimeter."3.6 roentgen - not great, not terrible".

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:23:50 pm
content: The correct tool is an ionization chamber, calibrated in rad/hr, rem/hr, Gy/hr, or Sv/hr. The pulsed tube current should not cause errors.G-M counters are more sensitive, so they are good for finding shielding leaks, or prospecting, but will overload quickly on pulses as mentioned by 5U4GB above.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 02:39:18 pm
content: Having worked in a CT training center for a year I'd like to forget, watch out for "skyscatter", ie reflections off the ceiling frame or building frame. We had an air gap between the lead lined wall of a training cell and the ceiling, so that had to be checked as a "bounce" path, as if it were a mirror. Anything metal is a strong reflector or scatterer. So are some non-metals.Also never take the personal dosimeter through an airport security portal... Ask me how I know... I really wasn't thinking that day.My punishment was to buy enough donuts for a 250-person auditorium and explain my mistake to an incoming class. Three donut shops later.... You have to find them in the morning before reporting, as they only bake in the evenings.I'm assuming that you have a system that does not need the tube "warmed up" with cycling, to maintain the vacuum. You may want to check that, see if you have an active getter or even built in Ion pump. CT and Industrial tubes (with rotors) go through "tube conditioning" or "Warm up" as just a tiny bit of outgassing can arc and wreak havoc on the HV PSU. But do find the biomedical engineer's manual for the unit and see how to care for the tube. Cathode current strongly matters as well.I know, I know, I was using up to 260 kV and 300 or more mA, so my unit was in a different class, but the basics apply.I made a phosphor plate so the students could see the beam shape when scanning, in daylight. We had that much energy. Through a thick lead glass window in the training cell. Normal window glass is soda-lime, it does not have much "Z" so will not help you much.Pro tip, shaped sheets of nylon and thin aluminum or copper are used as filters to get rid of low energy spectrum and clean up the beam profile. That may come in handy for you in imaging thin objects.Whom will hold the Dog still when the beast is in pain and perhaps feeling nippy?Get yourself a TLD, they are cheap and can be sent out to be read.Back to being serious:"3.6 roentgen - not great, not terrible". <--THIS!Steve

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 03:51:15 pm
content: Serious x-ray work involves appropriate use of filters, often aluminum.Bremsstrahlung x-ray generation produces a large low energy tail that is useless for imaging but harmful to human skin.The FDA regulations for diagnostic x rays specify minimum filtration for different applications.

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 06:23:02 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on September 09, 2025, 01:47:58 pmHi, it’s not a dental X-ray but a C-arm designed for extremity X-rays and fluoroscopy.I would really have liked to get an ionization chamber for accurate measurements, but there are literally none available used in my country, so a standard dosimeter is the best I can get.It also doesn’t overload the tube at all compared to my DIY X-ray machine I built before buying this one. Thanks to the intensifier tube, the dose needed to get a good image is extremely low and nowhere near the Geiger counter’s limits.

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 06:26:24 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 09, 2025, 02:23:50 pmIndeed, sadly I couldn’t find any of them for the prices you guys get in the US, so this is the best I can get.Other than that, what matters most to me isn’t measuring the exact dose but rather detecting leaks, as you mentioned. My goal is to stay as far away as possible by either extending the wiring or adding remote control so I don’t get exposed at all.

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 06:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on September 09, 2025, 02:39:18 pmThanks for the advice! Yes, I noticed they bounce a LOT haha.In terms of low-energy filtration, I’m pretty sure there’s already some kind of filter in the collimator block.It doesn’t ask me for a warm-up, but I always leave it on for a few minutes before starting. If it’s been off for more than two weeks, it will ask you to wait 4 minutes before starting. Of course, this tube is much smaller than the rotating ones you mentioned; in fact, it’s almost a microfocus tube.As for the dogs, most of them are pretty disciplined and will stand when asked, but if one really doesn’t want to stay still, I’ll have to hold it. That’s why I also ordered a lead apron and a thyroid protector. Of course, this won’t protect me 100%, but that’s the normal way this machine is operated: when working with humans, the doctor will either ask the patient to move their fingers or move them themselves under live X-ray, which, as you can guess, exposes you more than just taking a snapshot of an animal.This is also why it uses an intensifier tube instead of a flat-panel detector. It allows you to get good quality X-rays with a MUCH lower dose than a flat panel would need. You can see the settings used in the pictures for reference.Do you have any specific TLD models you can recommend? I can’t seem to find any, but maybe I’m not searching correctly

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2025, 06:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 09, 2025, 03:51:15 pmHi, yes, I’m pretty sure that there is a filter in the big collimator block

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 06:26:53 am
content: Quote from: ELPoupa on September 09, 2025, 06:23:02 pmThat's why I suggested a dosimeter, on the theory that they should be relatively inexpensive and shouldn't be that hard to get, but a quick Google search has indicated that they're neither unless you're in the US.. you may be able to get one from an oncology lab or similar, or they may know where to get one. Years ago eBay was flooded with ex-Soviet pencil dosimeters but I think they all vanished around the time of Fukushima. Ex-military stuff is probably your best bet, e.g. a British army HR2-383930 which sells for under UKP 10, assuming they still work.For ionisation-chamber based ones you could try a CD-V715 off eBay but they're both relatively insensitive and will again be pretty expensive to ship from US sellers. Oh, and won't have been calibrated for a long time so you'd want to calibrate them with a check source before use.

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 01:09:36 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on September 10, 2025, 06:26:53 amIndeed, I was looking for an EPD MK2 which some peoples recommended to me but theres litteraly none avalaible, the price isn't the problem but rather that ebay seems to block any europeans buy from getting those in the US...Theres still a lot of pens yes, so If I can't get anything better I'll go this route.Theres a guy in my country selling an ecotest terra P+ and a mirion DMC 3000, do you know if they are good ?I'll take a look to see if I can find a CDV-715

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 01:41:27 pm
content: Quote from: ELPoupa on September 10, 2025, 01:09:36 pmFrom a quick Google the Ecotest is a Geiger counter and the DMC 3000 doesn't say but if it runs for 3000 hours off an AAA and fits inside a device that compact then it's probably not using an ionisation chamber. When I searched for dosimeters earlier I ran into a number of Geiger counters being sold as dosimeters, so you need to check what it is you're getting.QuoteIf you do get one there are two things to look out for, the first is to make sure that it's a retrofit model with an R under the serial number:In theory they should all be updated ones, but if you're getting them off eBay then someone may have dug up a supply of the original models. The other thing is the calibration, there should be a calibration cert attached to it which will probably indicate some long-expired calibration:Unless the seller has calibrated it for you you'll have to do it yourself using a check source, you can buy these but they tend to be quite expensive so a workaround is to get some uranium ore or similar and measure its activity using a Geiger counter. The manual contains instructions on how to do the calibration.(An update, I'd never really registered that there was a URL attached to the cert, if you go to their web site there's a ton of info on the various Victoreen meters and how they calibrate them. Since this one presumably came from there it means it's been checked by them and calibrated, which you won't necessarily get from one sold as a curiosity on eBay. In particular trying to get replacement parts for the 1962 design would be a pain).However, before you go down this somewhat difficult and probably expensive path, you could try posting on theGammaSpectacular forumsto see if anyone can help you out and/or has a better idea for doing it. Those guys really know their stuff.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 02:47:44 pm
content: Congratulations on a great machine. For that price I would have taking it in a heartbeat as well.

author: Franc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2025, 06:01:43 pm
content: Awesome!! Keep us informed about it .

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 04:04:03 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on September 10, 2025, 01:41:27 pmYes, they aren’t ion chambers, just regular electronic dosimeters.I did some more research on the CDV-715, and apparently it’s extremely insensitive since it was made for nuclear fallout, making it kinda useless for anything else, especially for my application. Ion chambers are bulky, so I can’t always carry one, which defeats the purpose of knowing the dose I’m personally getting.I’ve talked with people on Discord who know way more than I do about this, and they told me the EPD MK2 is the best device for my use case. Even though it isn’t an ion chamber, I can strap it to myself and get measurements that are accurate enough so I'll guess I go this routeThanks for the forum link, I'll go take a look

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 04:06:05 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on September 10, 2025, 02:47:44 pmIndeed, this was a stealtheres a few thing that aren't working but nothing that cannot be done from the computer so no big deal

author: ELPoupa
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2025, 04:11:23 am
content: Quote from: Franc on September 10, 2025, 06:01:43 pmSure, here are some new pics. I was thinking of maybe doing a YouTube video showing the insides. There’s not much to see, but it’s really well madeIt can also do live X-ray recording, so I need to find something moving to test it. I already did a recording of my hand, but I won’t post it because it makes people mad lmaoLast pic is a laptop's CD drive

author: Joebeazelman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 03:38:19 am
content: Not to pee on your parade, but what you're doing is not only extremely dangerous, but could land you in serious legal trouble.You must be licensed and have that machine registered, installed in a proper facility, as well as inspected by the state regardless of its size and power.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 03:43:07 am
content: Given that there are people running unlicensed fusion devices in their basements and setting upweb sites talking about itI don't think enforcement of this is a big priority.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 07:25:24 am
content: Thanks for sharing more pictures.If you can, show us a few pictures of transformer windings. Lets see how good the X-rays penetrate the copper. Especially larger transformers.Really cool project!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 07:41:53 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on September 09, 2025, 03:25:40 amI had one recently, cost £40. Asurgicalextraction went more smoothly, so the dentist reduced the price from £500 to £400.How much do flights to the UK cost?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 07:44:56 am
content: Quote from: ELPoupa on September 09, 2025, 02:27:30 amSo much working stuff gets trashed due to stupidity.Makes me sad.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 07:50:02 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 09, 2025, 03:51:15 pmPerhaps the OP wants to return to "the good old days" of the 1930s. I have a book "The Boy Electrician" from that era, containing a chapter on fun things to do with you r x-ray machine. It does warn you that if your skin turns red you are using it too much.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 09:00:36 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on September 18, 2025, 03:43:07 amExcept that fusion outside of a Tokamak (or similar) is bullshit, so we can't really compare them.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2025, 09:02:37 am
content: Fusors still produce an awful lot of neutrons which you don't want to be in the path of.