Multimeter for beginner. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Cwmdu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pm
content: I am retired and want to learn about electronics. I have been told:To stay away from anything dangerous. So no high voltages or currents. Build a battery transistor multivibrator for starters.Buy an Owon VDS1022I first. Isolation to protect my laptop. Being able to see what is happening and being able to get close on voltage is enough.I asked "What about a multimeter?" And was told: It is not necessary, but if you want one get a CEM DT337.Is this the best multimeter for a beginner?

author: Axtman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:52:44 pm
content: My humble opinion is that there are so many good multimeters out there that you almost could not go wrong. That is if you are working on battery powered or low voltage circuits. I you are working on line voltage or high voltage circuits then I would say FLUKE.Dave Jones has some great videos:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:57:30 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pmNo, that's a clamp meter so you're paying for some things you'll never use and missing out on some things that you'll need.It's also expensive. You can get a lot of multimeter for far less money.Where are you going to buy the meter from? If you're buying on Aliexpress you'll get a lot more options than on Amazon (Amazon is a horrible place to buy stuff like this).

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pmAvoid. It's super inconvenient. The scope should normally be a dedicated device. Well, convenience is a subjective thing, but the fact that you'll need to handle two devices instead of one isn't. Also, it makes you depend on the quality and availability of the software that works with the scope.If on a tight budget, get a cheap chinese handheld scope such as JDS6052S, or similar (maybe there were some more attractive devices released in the last couple of years). They do everything a beginner would ever need: two channels, pause, zoom, single-shot, simple math etc.Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pm"not necessary"? A multimeter is the first tool that the beginner needs to buy, even before a soldering iron. You can get away without a scope, but not without a multimeter.CEM DT337 is primarily a clamp ammeter. It's a useful tool, but it can wait until you need to measure currents of the order of at least several amps without the need to break the circuit.Get a proper DMM instead. What model, depends on what you are willing to spend and whether you need to measure anything beyond low-voltage (think battery voltage levels) curcuits. There are many options. Nowadays there's a lot of quite decent choices starting at about $25 from brands such as Aneng which will get you started and serve you well until you understand that you need a second DMM, by which time you'll be able to choose it using your experience.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: Axtman on March 22, 2023, 06:52:44 pmThose are hopelessly out of date now...

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 06:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 22, 2023, 06:58:11 pmThey can still help to understand the general idea of what direction to look in.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:03:09 pm
content: For building a "battery transistor multivibrator" you could use a freebie DT830.OP appears to live in the UK so maybe he could start with Big Clive's favorite "trashy" meter, they're easy to get over there:(it's the D03047 - the one on the right in the thumbnail)Amazon:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Duratool-Manual-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B07K27M68T

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:07:15 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 22, 2023, 07:03:09 pmYeah, but it's important to understand that its only positive side is that it's free or almost free. Gets the job done, but in terms of UX it's awful.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:11:02 pm
content: Quote from: shapirus on March 22, 2023, 07:07:15 pmI'd have said "direct and simple".Everybody needs more than one meter though. A cheapo meter will do to get started and a lot will be learned with it.A better meter can be chosen at leisure...

author: Cwmdu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:14:56 pm
content: I was told get a clamp meter in case I start messing about with cars (which is probable), it is difficult to blow anything up with a clamp meter.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 07:14:56 pmThat's what you generally want to stay away from until you have experience and understand what you're doing.Clamp meter is used to measure current in a non-intrusive way, which, that is correct, makes it very difficult to blow something up. Get it if you need it. But I think I won't be very wrong guessing that you won't have much to measure in the car besides the engine start and battery charge current. Does it justify spending money on a clamp meter? That's up to you, but if you decide to get one, make sure you find a model that has both DC and AC measurement modes. As usual, there are decent inexpensive chinese meters.

author: TizianoHV
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:22:22 pm
content: A clamp meter is really useful but you'll need also a multimeter to measure lower currents. (if your circuit draw 100mA a clamp meter is useless).Two years ago I bought a ANENG AN8009 for 25€. For the price is really capable and robust. I used it at work and it fell on the ground from 2m (6 feet) twice, long battery life, cable detector....Maybe would be more useful a dc-ac clamp for oscilloscopes? (it has no display and you can use an oscilloscope or multimeter to read the value...)

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 07:57:46 pm
content: Starting off with a $20 or less meter is fine for low voltage electronics work (there a bazillion of them out there,and nearly all except the absolute cheapest will give accurate enough readings for volts & ohms). I'd agree with the previous recommendation of watching Dave's $50 shootout even if the low end landscape has changed. The info in it will give you an idea of what's important to look for.I recently got one of these to check out (I can't really explain why - I already have more meters than I know what to do with):-https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09M8641Y7(note, there was a 20% off coupon checkbox when I bought - look for it if you decide to pull the trigger)I haven't put it though all the paces yet, but initial impressions were good:- within 1-2 counts on all V and Ohm measurements- fast continuity buzzer (might need better probes for best results here)- the NCV function works better than many other meters I've tried- it has really good 1.5 to 12V battery test functions that load the battery and works better than the simple V check. For example, a marginal 12V "23A" battery I have shows as 11.5V on any meter's V function, but on this meter's 12V battery test with the load it shows 8.2V explaining why some of the functions of the device the battery is in don't work very well.One minor downside is that there's no capacitance function. I haven't tested the current measurements.But if you want a professional quality meter and are willing to spend up to around $100 USD (which isn't a bad price for a pro meter) the Brymen BM235 would be worth a look. Brymens aren't particularly easy to find in North America. Dave sells his own eevblog-branded version of the BM235 on the eevblog.com store part of this site, but it can also be had (for less than $100 USD including shipping) fromwww.welectron.com.Before ordering, email welectron for an "EEVBlog" discount code to save a few bucks.

author: DX1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 08:53:18 pm
content: A scope may be a good call to start with.With starter stuff like a multivibrator a multimeter is not very informative, because the signal is dynamic.What about a graphical multimeter? EG ET828.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 09:34:26 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 07:14:56 pmTrue, and cars use currents higher than a non-clamp meter can handle (assuming you're going to measure currents).Still... I'd buy a cheap meter for now and get a clamp later on. A meter like the one above will work much better on the workbench.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 09:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: mwb1100 on March 22, 2023, 07:57:46 pmYep.When Big Clive says "trashy" he doesn't mean they won't work, just that many people will look down on them because they aren't Flukes and didn't cost a fortune.They measure very well for the basic stuff (volts/ohms/amps/continuity) and you can buy two of them for the cost of a Fluke fuse.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 10:24:58 pm
content: A multimeter should be the very first tool you buy, and it is the one you will use most often. A scope is nice too but you probably won't use it nearly as much as you use a multimeter.

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 10:54:31 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 07:14:56 pmYou won't blow thing up if you use the clamp meter as the clamp meter but then you don't need it in that capacity often. You would need to measure voltage and resistance which it can do but doing so you can blow things up the same as a mulitmeter. It's only inconvenient to use. I never use the clamp for anything than measure current.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 11:13:11 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 22, 2023, 09:38:14 pm

author: shakalnokturn
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 12:52:28 am
content: A few ideas for today depending on where you live, by my order of preference (I'm a compulsive DMM buyer, I also have some for sale):https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/fluke-87-true-rms-multimeter-voltmeter-/1447537697https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/digital-multimeter-/1438157546https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/multimeter/1453274011https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/fluke-12-multimeter/1453277174https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/fluke-175-multimeter-with-fluke-leads-ono/1451262578https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/draper-dmm300-automotive-digital-multimeter-brand-new/1454011927If you mustalsobuy a current clamp:https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/fluke-325-true-rms-clamp-meter/1452271321https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-power-tools/new-fluke-376-fc-trms-clamp-meter/1452890707(I think this one is a real bargain, if close enough I'd buy this one, sell it off, that would possibly pay for at least a decent multimeter...)https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-miscellaneous-goods/amprobe-lh41a-ac-dc-low-current-clamp-meter/1425058131https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-hand-tools/iso-tech-clamp-meter-true-rms-600a-ac-dc-icm-36r-brand-new-/1452673010Now I've listed them here, you'll have to be quick if interested!

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 01:54:21 am
content: Give some consideration to the Kaiweets HT118E (that E is important! The HT118A is not half the meter).It's 4.5 digits (precise), it's accurate and for a meter in it's price range (under $70), well built, responsive, nicely executed and comes with decent standard accessories (+case) as well as some "nice" features (too long a list to enumerate). The only thing it does not have is a "relative" mode. Something you may never miss. There are several "reviews" and "first looks" on YouTube and none of them have anything negative to say about it. When they were first introduced they were on for a special price, and I found a discount code too that made it irresistible so it became my 13th meter. I have used it frequently and like it a lot. I can honestly say it's a great meter.If you were willing to spend 2.5 times that much you could pick up a meter from Brymen that would fill your needs for a lifetime. Remember though, you really need 2 meters. One to measure voltage and one to measure current. If I was just starting out and knew what I know now, I'd pick up that Kaiweets first, then for next Christmas (or whatever your winter holiday is) buy myself a Brymen 78X (I have a 786 because I like blue).Welcome to electronics. It's a whole bunch of fun and it will keep you out of the pubs (for the most part) and it will keep your wallet nice and lean.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 01:58:04 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 22, 2023, 09:38:14 pm

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:31:52 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 23, 2023, 01:54:21 amHe's already said one meter will likely be used for automotive work so it should probably be a clamp meter...

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:41:34 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 23, 2023, 02:31:52 amRight.That would need to be a DC clamp. Maybe a UT210E?Nice little meter. I have one. Works well except with really low current (under 200ma DC it gets progressively less accurate, but for the price ...). Only problem is Uni-T, so no support.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:49:57 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 23, 2023, 02:41:34 amI don't like clamp meters, I already have a perfectly good meter so I got a AC/DC clamp probe to go with it. The clamp is nice to have but in practice I rarely use it, most of the time when I work on cars I'm measuring volts and resistance. Most of the time when I do want to measure current it's at a range that is below what a clamp can reliably measure, stuff like phantom draw that is draining the battery.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 03:39:37 am
content: As a first meter my choices currently are the Uni-T UT61-E or one of the China only Fluke, the Fluke 15B+ or the 17B+.That's the ones I have experience with. Ideally you buy a Fluke 87V or a Brymen BM869s and you are set for a big while. But lacking the funds the alternative let's you get you feet wet and learn.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 06:36:59 am
content: A UT-210E, or a Mastech 2108A are both good, basic DMM clamp meters, also have a look at the new EEVBlog one, icr its model number. For small currents, use the mV function and a shunt (you can buy/make one cheaply enough, or reclaim one from old scrap equipment).If you really need a scope, be wary of usb ones that you use with a laptop; it may not suit your use case. If it does, then fine, but if it doesn't (they are very limited on the voltages they can deal with, safely), it'll just be a doorstop.A used Fluke or Tektronix scopemeter might be better, but without knowing exactly what your use case is, it's difficult to say for sure.

author: Cwmdu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 08:07:07 am
content: How is a multimeter more useful than a scope looking at a multivibrator and simple arduino circuits?

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 08:29:50 am
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 23, 2023, 08:07:07 amYou want to quickly check for shorts before powering on. You need to conveniently check voltages before and after powering the circuit on.Although not strictly necessary, you want to measure your resistors and capacitors before using them in the circuit. You need it also for checking potentiometers and seeing what way the adjustment works.Scope may or may not be needed. DMM is always needed, once you get into electronics.On the other hand, it's not mandatory to buy everything before you start. Just start, and then buy tools when you actually need them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 11:05:00 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on March 23, 2023, 03:39:37 amOverpriced, unless youneedthe datalogging.Quote from: Black Phoenix on March 23, 2023, 03:39:37 amUnderfeatured, for what they cost. You can have a basic Brymen for that much money.TLDR; Buy a "trashy" meter to get you going then if you decide electronics is your thing you can choose/save up for a better meter at your leisure.

author: baldurn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 11:30:19 am
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pmIf you are going Owon why not the Owon HDS242S ? This instrument is just slightly more expensive than the VDS1022I but has everything in one device. It is a scope, multimeter and signal generator in one package. It is also not a USB device so it works on its own. It can also be connected with USB so that is still an option.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 12:15:09 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 23, 2023, 11:05:00 am60US$ for the Uni-U is overpriced for a DMM with Data logging?70US$ for a Fluke 17B+ with proper protection?You really need to tell me where is your trashcan...Although I agree price per price the UniT is a better choice compared with the Fluke if you don't pretend to use in Mains.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:02:44 pm
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on March 23, 2023, 12:15:09 pmNo, that's why I mentioned the logging.Quote from: Black Phoenix on March 23, 2023, 12:15:09 pmWhere can you get one for that much? It's more like $140.https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-Fluke-17B%252B.html

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:26:24 pm
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 22, 2023, 06:41:48 pmif you're ok spending $50, i'd advise a Fluke 101:https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-101-Multimeter-Resistance-Capacitance/dp/B00HE6MIJYwell nigh indestructible, will protect you from (most) any harm caused by shoving the prods where they shouldn't be.nocurrent ranges, which i see as a major bonus. proven highly robust when tested by Joe Smith, and recommended by Adam Savage:https://youtu.be/K9fQn1bQVsQ&t=180sif you really want to measure currents, also buy a big 1Ω resistor:https://www.amazon.com/RELAND-SUN-Aluminum-Wirewound-Resistor/dp/B0B4PJ4J91cheers,rob :-)

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 04:55:56 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 23, 2023, 02:02:44 pmDirectly on the Electronics Supermarket of Shenzhen. You just need to search a little. Specially now that the new 15B/17B Max were released.And also a lot of shops are closing there because of the low volume of sales regarding the lockdowns (it still didn't recover as the government expected, so a ton of sellers are basically quitting).

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 07:35:31 pm
content: I would get a small cheapo meter for starts, after using it for a while, figure out what you want in a fancier meter and then then put he cheapo one in your pocket for flea market forays.The few bucks you spend will be well worth it as educational costs.Add a cheap LCR Transistor tester and you are still under $50I still use a cheap BSIDE daily.The component ( diode, transistor, cap, inductance) meters like the BSIDE are so inexpensive and reasonably accurate that I would not worry about these functions on a multimeter.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 06:29:49 am
content: Quote from: Cwmdu on March 23, 2023, 08:07:07 amA multimeter can check continuity, it can measure the value of resistors and in some cases capacitors, it can test diodes and transistors, it can measure supply voltage and current draw. A scope lets you see what the circuit is doing, but a multimeter aids construction and lets you check it out before you even power it up and then troubleshoot.Back when I learned electronics scopes were very expensive, way out of reach of most hobbyists, they were very much specialist instruments back then, the holy grail, a bit like a good RF spectrum analyzer today. We got by without one, analog VOM, some LEDs, maybe a logic probe if we were lucky and a speaker or small audio amplifier, you don't really need a scope, but it's certainly nice to have and makes some things easier. It's just more specialized than a multimeter so it is useful for a narrower range of tasks.

author: n4u
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 07:36:01 am
content: First multimeter have to be cheap, but cannot be crappy. You may buy ut33a+ or some aneng, because they are cheap, small and you may trow them into car if you swith to brymen / sanwa / fluke. 210e its fine - but "normal" meters are more convenient in use. You need to know what are you doing and what want you to do before you forgot about or blow somethink expensive (fuse costs more than chinese meter)

author: Pfriemler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 10:49:09 am
content: Quote from: BillyO on March 23, 2023, 01:54:21 amGot an A similar one a few months ago, found it very useful but the „alarms“ (red backlight) while measuring >1A or >200V is annoing and useless, since there is no warning when the meter is at 230V mains in DC range. And I miss manual range selection. Simply Auto is a nogo for me. You wont get useful readings in some conditions.I hope the E does it better…?