Help: Rigol DS1054Z waveform corruption in stop mode - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 05:25:43 pm
content: Hello everyone! I just bought a new Rigol DS1054Z!But it seems like there is a problem with itI'm not quite sure, maybe this is normal behavior... Please tell me if i'm doing something wrong.I'm using single trigger mode to capture the signal waveform (it is shown on first two frames of attached image). I'm dialing horizontal scale and position knobs to inspect different places of the waveform.Then, at random moment, a glitch suddenly appears on the waveform at random place - the waveform becomes corrupted. As far as I understand the waveform shouldn't change in stop mode, because it is stored in memory, right?Ok, I'm dialing knobs again to take a closer look at the glitch and getting even more glitches. Not right away, but again, at random moments. Theese glitches appears during manipulations with the horizontal knobs.I'm new to digital scopes. Is the scope has a malfunction? Or it is a normal behavior?Software version: 00.04.04.04.01Board version: 0.1.4Boot version: 0.0.1.5Firmware version: 0.2.3.11

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 05:53:31 pm
content: This does look like a bug of some sort.So those glitches are not static, but appear and disappear wen you switch time scale from some value to some other value, and back to the original value?Try saving the waveform on a USB drive and see if those glitches are present in the saved files as well.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:27:07 pm
content: Quote from: nwfall on April 25, 2019, 05:25:43 pmDefinitely not normal.Apply the latest firmware. Send it back if it still happens.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on April 25, 2019, 05:53:31 pmCorrect, glitches may appear when switching time scale back and forth and/or changing horizontal position. But glitches does not dissapear. They persist until I make a new waveform capture.In attachment i used the standard 1khz compensation output of the scope. Caught a glitch and took a photo. Saved>cleared>loaded and took another photo.So glitches do present in the saved files.Now I'm trying to update firmware, hope this will help...

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:50:57 pm
content: Firmware update didn't solved the problem, still having glitches

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 06:54:12 pm
content: This looks like some memory issue. Just for fun, I would do a USB capture. But really, it is a broken scope, return it.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:15:46 pm
content: It's a defect. Probably some RAM problems, don't know. Definitely not normal.If I were you, I will return that oscilloscope. It's broken.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: nwfall on April 25, 2019, 06:50:57 pmSorry to read about the bad luck you have with your new scope. It is certainly uncommon to have that kind of flaw; first time this has ever been reported on this forum, to my knowledge.I hope you bought the scope from a decent dealer, and they will replace it without further hassle!

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 02:52:40 am
content: I've seen that on mine as well. I don't see any other issues however. I think it is rather a bug, probably they all have it if you play back and forth with the capture.Edit: Added screen shot. I'm curious if this a defect and I need to return mine or just a brand new, freshly reported bug.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 03:10:24 am
content: Mine certainly doesn't do that.You have glitches; return the scope to the vendor and get another one.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 03:19:42 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on April 26, 2019, 03:10:24 amAre you sure? It doesn't show up easily on mine. I had to play for few minutes.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 03:45:58 am
content: I couldn't get mine to do it again but I found another glitch. On a single screen capture with the trigger point in the middle of the screen, after moving the capture left - right few times, the trigger point suddenly moved to the right side of the capture. I'm not sure if this makes sense, if I can duplicate it I'll take a screen shot.Edit: Apparently it only shows up when cold, on mine.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 05:22:31 am
content: I contacted the vendor, described the issue and he forwarded it to RIGOL. So now I'm waiting for reply...Miti, your screenshot looks very similar to my issue. I found that it easier to catch the glitch when i'm changing horizontal scale in/out very fast and moving horizontal position in between. It still happens when I changing scale in regular way, just not so soon.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 08:24:36 am
content: Quote from: Miti on April 26, 2019, 02:52:40 amDoesn't look like a software bug. If it were to be a bug, it should affect most of the other DS1054Z oscilloscopes as well, yet this doesn't happen to others.Mine doesn't show corrupted waveforms on stop mode.Later edit:How did you manage to get 125Msa/7.5M pts on Mem Depth on Auto? Whatever I do, mine doesn't go to that combination of speed/points.Nevermind, it goes to that combination for time base at 5ms/div, sorry.What firmware version do you have?(To check the firmware version normally, press UTILITY -> SYSTEM -> SYSTEM INFO in the “MENU” buttons group, but to check for more software details (undocumented):Quickly press buttons MENU -> MENU -> FORCE -> MENU on “TRIGGER” buttons group, then go to info panel by pressing buttons UTILITY -> SYSTEM -> SYSTEM INFO in the “MENU” buttons group.)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 08:27:44 am
content: DS-1104Z and friend's 1054Z that I used intensively never have this kind of problem.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 10:54:11 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge link=topic=182934.msg2369412#msg2369412 dateYou're right, probably Rigol pushes the memories to the limits of their specs and some simply can't do it in certain circumstances. I bet there are many out there showing this glitch, is just pretty hard to catch. But then why only when scrolling left and right or zooming in and out? I haven't seen any other anomaly.I just upgraded mine last week so it has the latest firmware 04.04.04.02.We'll see what the resolution is for the OP.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 10:56:36 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on April 26, 2019, 08:27:44 amHave you used intensively the scrolling and zooming feature?

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 11:55:11 am
content: Yeap, it shows up pretty fast in the first couple of minutes after power up. Once it is warm, nada.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 01:18:14 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 26, 2019, 11:55:11 amSound like bad solder somewhere.nb. It could get worse with time, if it's a brand new 'scope then get it exchanged ASAP.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 04:44:28 pm
content: I contacted my vendor and I sent screen shots. A very nice gentleman there promised he''ll contact Rigol to see if they know anything about this issue. Most likely I'll get an RMA number.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 05:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 26, 2019, 03:19:42 amDo you have to twirl two knobs at once in order to see the glitches?Yes, I use scrolling and zooming very often. But I only turn one knob at a time!

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 05:23:02 pm
content: No, only one knob at a time. Do this when cold, as soon as it boots up:1. Connect the CH1 probe to the calibration output2. Set the timebase to 500us3. Press SINGLE to capture one waveform4. Move POSITION left and right quickly while observing the waveform for artifacts.On my scope they show up within 25 to 50 moves.

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:10:22 pm
content: I got the same new scope yesterday and i just noticed the exact same problemHere is a video of when the glitch happens:The glitch happens at timecode 0:26.Software version: 00.04.04.04.02Board version: 0.1.4Boot version: 0.0.1.5Firmware version: 0.2.3.11(All the same as yours)

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:13:32 pm
content: This is interesting. I've got the scope shortly after they first appeared, and I don't remember doing any software upgrades, just the feature unlock stuff. I used it quite a bit and did not notice anything like that. I'll check it again when I get home.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:34:37 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 26, 2019, 05:23:02 pmOK, I'll try to reproduce using your instructions. But first... does this technique correspond to any actual use case of the scope?I know that I generally warm the scope up for some minutes before I am ready to use it -- or it is ready to use. In fact to perform this test I'll have to shut down and let it cool off for a while.Old valve man me. And I know the encoders are physically sensitive and the software is velocity-sensitive so I use "safecracking fingers" when I twiddle the knobs.I mean, my car isn't malfunctioning but if I start wiggling the steering wheel back and forth without a clear purpose in mind I might soon find it doing something I don't like, too.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:51:41 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on April 26, 2019, 07:34:37 pmMoving the waveform fast left and right, probably not but I first noticed this issue when I analyzed the programming of a DS1225 on TL866 and I didn't move the capture very fast.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 07:58:09 pm
content: Quote from: form on April 26, 2019, 07:10:22 pmYeap, that's it. Welcome to the club!

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:08:51 pm
content: No one's mentioned a warmed up Self-Calibration, - not that it will fix anything.Quote from: Miti on April 26, 2019, 07:58:09 pmIs membership open to non-rigol owners.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on April 26, 2019, 09:08:51 pmYes, it is. For a small monthly fee, anybody can subscribe...Seriously, do you have a non Rigol that has this issue?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:57:00 pm
content: Seriously, do you have a non Rigol that has this issue?I used to get quite a few long mem glitches, I don't get so many now because I can't enable long mem.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-cml-firmware/msg1091615/#msg1091615I can still play a not very good version of Tetris in ETS mode though.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 02:32:38 am
content: My scope is old and has not been updated in a while, so the system info screen is very short. Picture attached.I see no issues as described here. So it looks like Rigol optimized something in the later revisions.And I'm not updating to the new version, since everything is working fine as far as I'm concerned.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 02:48:59 am
content: My scope is a couple of years old, too, and shows no waveform corruption with the latest firmware 00.04.04.04.02

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 09:38:54 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on April 26, 2019, 07:34:37 pmI see your point, but theese glitches appears during normal daily use - I'm inspecting various signals, spinning the knobs lightly to see different parts of the waveform.Of course, I wonder what causes these glitches and how can I reproduce them faster. So if my car sometimes turns left while I'm rotating steering wheel right, yes, I'll be wiggling the steering wheelIn my case, however, the glitches doesn't depend on warming up the scope.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 09:55:28 am
content: It could be Rigol is using FPGAs or memories with slower rating in newest boxes, and while they usually overclock it might be you see the glitches based on the temperature.Afaik the FPGAs used in 1000/2000/4000 series are EOL, so the sourcing could be an issue for Rigol..

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 10:02:37 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on April 27, 2019, 09:38:54 amAgree. I was inspecting a signal from a digital temperature sensor and "counting" the bits while scrolling through the signal. It is unusable because the signal gets destroyed while you work with it.Quote from: imo on April 27, 2019, 09:55:28 amDisagree.It glitches also with a warm scope and also with slower sampling rate.It doesnt glitch if you dont touch any knob -> I would think when the memory itself is causing the problem, it would also glitch when you do nothing.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 10:11:13 am
content: When the newest boxes glitches by any temperature, with the same FW as the older boxes (which do not glitches), then it could be they started to use slower FPGAs or memories, for example. Of course, it could be something else..

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 11:27:10 am
content: I don't want to speculate but I see these kind of issues with FPGAs - memories, usually on new, high speed video products at work. Or one job works well, then a new batch of memories gives us 50% failure rate. We report this to the customer/designer and with a board or two sent to them for FA and a new firmware, all these issues are gone. I'm pretty sure that a cold solder would show up without moving the capture left and right and would cause other symptoms as well but again, these are just speculations. I'll wait for Rigol to come back with a resolution.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 11:37:54 am
content: Many decades back, in the era of TTL chips, engineers were using the Freon spray with its significant cooling effect applied onto the sea of 74xx packages, package by package, usually found the faulty one. I saw it in practice. Just a remark, not telling you you have to open the oscope case and spray onto the FPGAs

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 12:09:15 pm
content: We use freezing spray at work as well and it scares me every time they spray a BGA. On the TH parts it may be ok to catch some defects but on those fine BGAs, to cool it from 60 - 70C down to negative temperatures within seconds, could be very detrimental to both die and PCB and you could create more defects than you try to catch.In my case there's no point of doing that as I can't fix it anyway even if I find the culprit.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 12:42:15 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 27, 2019, 12:09:15 pmReballing the FPGAs is a pretty popular topic on youtube..Jokes aside, sure Rigol shall provide some hints how to proceed..

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 01:58:20 pm
content: hello, mine does not present that error, for now everything is perfect. I have it unlocked with all the functions, including 100 mHz.I tried it in cold and also after 30 minutesSoftware version 00.04.04.04.02Board Version 0.1.4Boot version 0.0.1.4Versiob Firmware 0.2.3.11CPLD1.1Build Date Dec 24 2018 18: 56.32 | 0 0: 4/18 5:30 PMin spanish/españolhola, el mio no presenta ese error, por ahora todo perfecto. lo tengo desbloqueado con todas las funciones, incluido los 100 mHz.lo probe en frio y tambien despues de 30 minutosSoftware version 00.04.04.04.02Board Version 0.1.4Boot version 0.0.1.4Firmware versiob 0.2.3.11CPLD1.1Build Date Dec 24 2018 18:56.32 | 0 0 :4/18 17:30

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 02:51:40 pm
content: fyi - Adrian bought it Feb2018 (and had to cleanup the pcb with alcohol based on Rigol's advice).

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 03:37:51 pm
content: Quote from: imo on April 27, 2019, 02:51:40 pmif it is true, that way I remove the humidity, then I exposed it to the sun for 10 minutes totally disarmed, except the display, from that moment never more a problem.in spanish/españolsi es verdad, de esa manera le quite la humedad, luego yo lo expuse 10 minutos al sol totalmente desarmado, menos el display, desde ese momento nunca mas un problema.

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 08:41:30 pm
content: Hello.Can´t provoke the failure. My DS1054z is a "somewhere in the middle" old one.Software version00.04.04.04.02Board Version0.1.1Boot Version0.0.1.4Firmware Version0.2.3.11CPLD Version1.1Build DateDec 24 2018 18: 56.32Maybe the issue is somehow correlated with the "Boot Version 0.0.1.5"?What triggers the change to a new boot version? Modified hardware?

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 02:57:39 am
content: My boot version is 0.0.1.4

author: keef
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 05:06:31 pm
content: Hello all,got my my 1054z a few days ago and am also seeing this issue. Happens hot or cold, no zooming required, just moving the horizontal position left and right. These screen shots are of a single capture of the scopes builtin test signal.Software Version 00.04.04.04.02Board Version 0.1.4Boot Version 0.0.1.5Firmware Version 0.2.3.11CPLD Version 1.1Build Date Dec 24 2018 18:56:32 | 0 0:20/0 22:14

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 06:05:13 pm
content: Quote from: keef on April 28, 2019, 05:06:31 pmSorry to hear that.It's also terrifying to hear that 4 out of 10 DS1054Z's in this thread have this problem.Just for information. Changing vertical scale and position also causes glitches to appear. It is harder to catch because I'm using vertical controls rarer in stop mode.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 06:32:56 pm
content: Quote from: form on April 27, 2019, 10:02:37 amPlease not that the Rigol has two separate memories -- the sample memory (which stores the trace at full time resolution), and the screen buffer (which holds the view currently visible on the screen, down-sampled to one sample per screen column).I would assume that the scope reads the sample memory once every time you change the settings. (To build a new screen buffer, corresponding to the changed view.) While you keep looking at the same view in "stopped" state and don't touch the knobs, the scope can leave the screen buffer unchanged, and does not have to go back to the sample memory.So the observed error is compatible with the assumption that reading the sample memory itself is unreliable. But of course, other root causes are also possible.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 07:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: nwfall on April 28, 2019, 06:05:13 pmIf it is possible, return it. It is likely a hardware defect. Mine doesn't do it. Latest firmware.Might be that they come from same production batch with some component with defect or doesn't have proper rating.There are likely 10s of thousands 1000Z here on the eevblog. 4 is not much.@ebastler:If it is only screen buffer, than after this happens, one could get samples from main buffer over SCPI and get right data...

author: Housedad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 07:28:58 pm
content: I wonder if the glitches are related to the scope recalculating the aquire memory but also reading and adding noise from the horizontal positioning pot as it is rotated while trying to create the glitch? A weird form of keybounce?EDIT: or is it something to do with the CPU not able to calculate and update the screen memory fast enough and skipping sections of memory and showing whatever is there? It is not the fastest brain in the bunch. A software interrupt that forces the CPU to skip based on timing?

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 07:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on April 28, 2019, 07:11:37 pmWow, wow, tens of thousands on eevblog? I'm not sure about that. What I see is that in this thread, about 40% (guestimate) have it. I suspect many others saw the problem but ignored it (myself included) didn't see the problem because they don't examine wave forms back and forth too much, etc. I could bet this can be solved with the proper understanding of the issue and a new firmware. And I bet a solder issue or a defective memory would popup in some way even without twisting the knob. It must be a marginal timing issue between FPGA and memory that gets exposed in this particular scenario.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2019, 10:35:39 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 28, 2019, 07:58:16 pmNope. Completely wrong. The DS1054Z has been poked and prodded and analyzedto deathhere.If there's four of them in a short space of time then Rigol has messed something up and produced a bad batch.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 07:20:14 pm
content: Oh, yea? I just duplicated it on both Rigols that we have at work. A DS1054 and an MSO1074. I will attach screenshots tonight.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 07:34:06 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on April 30, 2019, 07:20:14 pmNever mind the screenshots, we believe you. (And if we wouldn't, what would the screenshots prove anyway?)More important: Were these two units purchased recently, or when were they produced and bought? I have only followed this thread superficially, but it seems that so far the problem was observed only in recently produced units?

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2019, 07:40:31 pm
content: My scope was bought more than a year ago. The last one at work in the last couple of months. The second one at work somewhere in between.Edit: Actually it is the other way around. The second one in the last couple of months, the first one in between.Edit1: I attached the MSO1074 screenshot.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2019, 06:32:58 pm
content: My very responsive vendor replied:"Rigol managed to duplicate the issue as well. They aren’t sure what’s causing the issue yet (firmware/hardware).Its in the hands of their engineering team in China. I’ll let you know what happens as soon as we hear back."

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 06:07:44 pm
content: I cannot reproduce this on my 4 year old DS1054Z (unlocked and the latest firmware build installed). Like others have suggested it seems to be related to the more recent DS1054Z models only.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2019, 07:05:28 pm
content: Patience is the key word in this case. It took me more than half hour to convince MSO1074.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 10:16:54 pm
content: News from my vendor and from Rigol:"Rigol has confirmed the issue will be fixed in the next firmware update.We’ll let you know as soon as the firmware update date is announced."

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 03:19:03 am
content: Quote from: Miti on May 06, 2019, 10:16:54 pmMy vendor tells me somewhat the same. Although I've never seen the official answer from Rigol.Can we trust our vendors?Edit: I'm asking because my buyer protection time is running out. So I have to decide - return the scope in the next two days or to take the seller's word and wait patiently for resolution.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 06:00:05 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on May 07, 2019, 03:19:03 amThis is aseriousproblem, I don't imagine they'll take long.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:02:56 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 07, 2019, 06:00:05 amTwo years ago I reported a serious bug to Rigol that renders the USB connection useless when using a modern pc or laptop.Rigols' response:"the bug is confirmed, but it seems to hard to fix it.A fix will be implemted in new Models, for older ones, no confirmation tohave a fix available soon."It's also in the buglist here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-buglist-continued-(from-fw-00-04-04-03-02)/(item 8 )

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 08:38:58 am
content: Quote from: Karel on May 07, 2019, 08:02:56 amDoesn't seem serious to me.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 11:09:05 am
content: Two things just crossed my mind... not much traffic there, you may say:1. What are the chances that Rigol didn't know about this bug. I think most likely they kept it shush until someone complained.2. Even if it is a hardware issue that affects, say, 60% of all oscilloscopes in the series, and Rigol knows that, do you think they would recall all of them? They would rather promise a software fix which would never happen. Ooops, we thought we fixed it ....well, next time.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2019, 12:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: Miti on May 07, 2019, 11:09:05 amQuite high, they've been making these things foryearsand this bug only just appeared.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 02:11:39 am
content: I'm amazed at how many bugs could be caught by just viewing a few quality square waves by eye before scopes leave the factory, they wouldn't even have to test every one. Do they even turn them on.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 06:47:00 am
content: I highly doubt they knew about it. As Miti said himself, you have to do something specific for a long time to provoke it. And if someone did see something odd, they probably weren't sure what was going on, and reacquired new capture, it was OK and they moved on..While I understand that type usage is perfectly normal, it is not the usual way people use scopes. I never capture single image and then go back and forth through it for half an hour.Screen is small and I use Picoscope for that kind of work, or if I didn't have one, would download waveform from scope to PC.It seems logical not to catch this one early.But, people put effort in,proved bug is there and work was done to report it and Rigol confirmed it and committed to fix it.Thanks to those who made it happen.Now we just need for Rigol to do it's thing.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 09:42:43 am
content: Ok, I just had a reply from RIGOL. They say: "we think that it's software bug, and our team is under studying the solution now, please wait a moment, thanks"What do you think, what are our chances?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 09:50:43 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on May 09, 2019, 09:42:43 amThere's multiple reports and everybody so far has said it goes away when the 'scope warms up. A timing issue in a particular batch of chips is a reasonable explanation.If it can be fixed in firmware then Rigol has dodged a bullet.Quote from: nwfall on May 09, 2019, 09:42:43 amWhat are your chances of what, exactly...?

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 09:54:49 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2019, 09:50:43 amMine doesn'tQuote from: Fungus on May 09, 2019, 09:50:43 amThat this issue is fixable with firmware

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 10:19:47 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on May 09, 2019, 09:54:49 amQuote from: nwfall on May 09, 2019, 09:54:49 amMy finger-in-the-airguessfor what's causing this is the way their FPGA compiler has distributed the blocks inside the chip with this particular firmware release. You can get signal timing issues inside an FPGA if you don't pay attention to the physical position of the blocks inside the chip.https://www.nutaq.com/blog/xilinx-system-generator-tips-and-tricks-%E2%80%93-part-4-understanding-timing-issuesIfthis is the problem: They simply need to figure out where it's happening, tweak the layout constraints/hints in the source code, recompile, fixed!

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 06:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 09, 2019, 09:50:43 amOn my scope the issue goes away when it is warm, on another one at work it is the other way around.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 08:20:30 pm
content: Mine is 8 months old, tried it on startup just now, didn't try it after extended warmup. No I don't have the HV calibrator option--my probe setting is still set at 100X. It appears to me that the "corruption", at least in my case, is extraneous garbage on the display, as the waveform seems OK behind it.

author: jbtronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2019, 11:06:57 am
content: Quote from: PeDre on May 11, 2019, 05:47:11 pmOn my scope the glitches also occurs, when two channels are enabled. (Firmware Version 00.04.04.SP4. Board Version 0.1.4)Interesting is ,that it seems, that much less glitches occur, when High Res mode is enabled.Generally the glitches only occurs, when the timebase is changed very quickly. When it is changed slowly then almost no glitches occur.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 03:54:30 pm
content: Great news guys! Rigol sent me an email with the new firmware!I flashed it and began to twist the knobs frantically.After a few minutes the glitch did not appear! Seem's like the problem solved!They said that the firmware will soon be published on the website.I really appreciate their efforts for helping us! Good job, Rigol! Not only your oscilloscopes awesome but your support is awesome too!

author: keef
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 04:16:08 pm
content: Quote from: nwfall on June 21, 2019, 03:54:30 pmThanks for the head up! Had been having the same issue, now all seems good!

author: Adrian_Arg.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:18:50 pm
content: great, and because you do not share it so that the one with the same problem solves it.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 05:53:01 pm
content: Quote from: Adrian_Arg. on June 21, 2019, 05:18:50 pmOh come on! Will you take a firmware binary from an unknown person on the internet and will flash to your beloved oscilloscope?I might have a virus on my PC that turns touched devices into a grand scope-o-botnet without my knowledge!I highly recomend you to download firmwares only from official website.But if you still want it then here it is

author: WhichEnt2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 06:47:06 pm
content: They already uploaded it:https://rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3version: 00.04.04.04.03 date: 2019-06-21

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 07:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: nwfall on June 21, 2019, 05:53:01 pmI find Russian shareware and hackware to be at least as trustworthy as anything from Microsoft--and more so than Apple or Sony! So I took the risk and installed from your .zip. Is my DS 1054Z now mining Bitcoin for you? The fan is pretty loud now....

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 07:25:05 pm
content: Nope.I just updated an old DS1074Z from a year-2015 firmware to todays 00.04.04.04.03 and get the same glitch when scrolling in a captured 1 kHz test-signal.(Did it twice)

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 07:50:42 pm
content: Interesting. Was the upgrade to 00.04.04.04.03 successful?Current installed firmware details can be checked like this: Under the Trigger area on the front panel, press Menu > Menu > Force > Menu and then press Utility > System > System Infohttps://rigol.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2286510-how-to-check-the-full-firmware-and-hardware-revision-on-a-ds1000z-oscilloscope

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 07:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on June 21, 2019, 07:50:42 pmYes.I did not had the issue with the very old 2015 firmware, was waiting to update until the issue was solved, risked it now and got hit

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2019, 10:51:57 pm
content: After this update, what should my revision level be under Utility/System/SystemInfo? I have 00.04.04.SP4 and I am unable to access the full firmware information using the method stated above by RoGeorge.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 02:31:17 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on June 21, 2019, 10:51:57 pmYou need to press the "Menu > Menu > Force > Menu" button sequence pretty fast.These are the buttons on the right side of the scope under the trigger adjustments.Then go display the expanded SystemInfo.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 02:36:36 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on June 22, 2019, 02:31:17 amThanks! I was doing it methodically and slowly. Lightning fingers fixed it.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:13:09 am
content: Quote from: form on June 21, 2019, 07:25:05 pmWas your old 74z working without issues before flashing fresh firmware?Quote from: form on June 21, 2019, 07:54:34 pmOh, yes, I see now. Well, that looks suspicious!

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:14:18 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on June 22, 2019, 07:13:09 amYes.

author: nwfall
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:18:31 am
content: Quote from: form on June 22, 2019, 07:14:18 amAnd what about your recent 1054z? In my mind you had one at work?

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 07:20:09 am
content: Quote from: nwfall on June 22, 2019, 07:18:31 amI returned that a few days after purchase because of the bug and bought a used 1074z without that bug.

author: JohnPen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 09:13:12 am
content: Just for info I have updated my, purchased in 2015, DS1054Z to the latest F/W using the formal link with no problems. In my case I couldn't create the problem previously and this upgrade has not introduced it on my scope. That said varying tolerances on h/w limits combined with f/w can be rather tricky to deal with sometimes and may well be the problem in 'form's case. I should point out that I have always upgraded to the latest f/w shortly after each new version has occurred. It should of course not make any difference when one does a f/w upgrade as all versions should work ok. I hope no-one else has any problems as otherwise there will need to be another upgrade soon which is not a good advert for Rigol.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 12:15:15 pm
content: Quote from: form on June 21, 2019, 07:25:05 pmMy DS1074Z is from about the same time. I seem to remember that with the very old bootloader, you could install old firmware versions.I have not tried it on mine. But, I have some very very old firmware versions saved if you would like to try to go back.The oldest I have is DS1000ZUpdate_00.02.01.01.00. Do you know what your working version was?My scope rarely shows the problem with 00.04.04.04.02.

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 01:23:49 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on June 22, 2019, 12:15:15 pmThis sounds good, i will give it a try. Can you please upload all the versions you have?Unfortunately i dont know which version i had before.Quote from: MarkF on June 22, 2019, 12:15:15 pmAre you going to test it with 00.04.04.04.03?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:13:27 pm
content: Here is the oldest firmware that has the jitter fix: Version DS1000ZUpdate_00.04.02.04.07I have five more but I am not going to upload them til you see if you can revert to an older version.Yes. I intend to update to the latest after it shows up on the Rigol North American site.Which is where all my versions came from.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:16:14 pm
content: Here is what I have to pick from:

author: form
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 03:23:37 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on June 22, 2019, 03:13:27 pmThank you. I tried that, but the scope won't let me downgrade.

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2019, 11:53:11 pm
content: Not only that it didn't fix anything but it made it worse. Before I had to play for quite awhile with the buttons, now it shows up pretty fast.Yes, I appreciate Rigol fixing issues... if they are indeed fixed. I need to downgrade.Edit: Anybody knows how to downgrade this sucker? Pissed off!

author: jbtronics
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 01:20:47 pm
content: Interesting that they bring out a new firmware.I have contacted Rigol (Europe) in beginning of May, and they said that this is most likley an hardware defect and that i should sent the oscilloscope in for repair.I have sent it in, and now it does not show this corruption issue any more. The unit I have got back is the same as i sent in (same serial number). The only change that i could notice from the outside, that another (but older) firmware was installed (version v00.04.04.03.05 from 2018). Im not sure, but i think that i have installed the old firmware version before (and upgraded later) and the issue were occuring there too, so i think that during the repair something was changed on the hardware.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 01:27:00 pm
content: There are two ways to downgrade:1. Patching the .GEL footer of a previous FW:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsxxxx-gel-firmware-file-format/msg1479419/#msg1479419You would have to do the homework.2. Using Rigol's USB vendor diskHow to get one is also in the forum somewhere.The safest way is to wait for Rigol to undo the "upgrade".

author: Miti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 04:59:15 pm
content: Quote from: tv84 on June 23, 2019, 01:27:00 pmI remember seeing some instructions somewhere but I can't find it to save my life. Can you point to the thread?Thanks!

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 06:46:43 pm
content: Beware!https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-firmware-patch-plugins/msg1473517/#msg1473517

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 01:35:21 pm
content: Same problem here

author: WhichEnt2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 02:45:36 pm
content: I would like to declare that lastest update solve problem for my scope.December 2018 mfg date.

author: xyybob
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 12:33:51 pm
content: Here we are almost a year later. Imagine my horror when using my new DS1074Z Plus to examine a switch waveform that showed this corruption bug when I scrolled it around!Then I found this thread and had the problem fixed pretty sharpish!I just wanted to thank everyone involved in getting this fixed and contributing to this thread and to note that another scope fixed... Yay!