I constantly getting shocks from electrostatic charge - what can i do ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: kultakala
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 02:35:11 pm
content: Hi,At first sorry if i am using not the correct terms but english is not my native language...I think its something everyone knows... especially when the air humidity is low you walk through your flat, touch something which is grounded and BAM, you got an electric shock.Since a while i am having ths problem... but only at my desk.I never get any shock when touching the water tap, doors, kitchen appliances... never.But when i sit down at my desk and touch my keyboard i get shocked.Sometimes its that strong that my lighted keyboard goes off or the monitor blanks out for a few seconds.Some day it will destroy my computer i guessSo usually when i sit down i grab a metal paperclip or something and touch the ground of one of my socket outlets at the desk.Then i can also see a spark but dont feel the shock.After that everything is fine.So i thought it would be good to get an ESD mat for my desk.I put the mat on the desk under the keyboard and the mat is connected to ground.Now i get a shock including spark when i touch the mat after sitting down.I measured the resistance and from the mat to ground its only 100 Kilo Ohm.So i guess the resistance should be higher ? The usual Adapter plugs i found online have 1 Mega Ohm, but the one which came with the mat has only 100k.Would that help or would i still get a a shock ?Btw, when i measure the resistance between ground and the keyboard its out of range.The keyboard is obviously plastic and there is also no resistance measurable between any parts of the keyboard.How can i get a shock when touching it ?Any hint what i can do ?Thanks!

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 03:41:41 pm
content: Well, the obvious thing is to increase the humidity in the room during extremely dry weather. You could get a humidifier. Alternately if you have a stove or radiator or other heating hot spot, just set a pan of warm water there to evaporate and refill as required.

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 08:24:58 pm
content: Walk around barefoot. I find that significantly helps on carpet.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 09:59:12 pm
content: It's probably your chair. The chairs we have at work (which we haven't used in ages due to covid work from home) would give me a shock every time I sit down or get up. I just got in the habit of touching the metal frame of the desk as I sit down or stand up. You can also get antistatic spray that you can spray on the carpet and furniture.

author: ace1903
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 10:09:00 pm
content: I relate this with the cloth softener used in the washing machine. I am sensitive to some chemicals and artificial smells and tend to use less softener.But for some cloths made with a significant amount of synthetic fibre more is needed. Years ago a thought that antistatic component in softener is a myth up to the moment when I started to work in a lab that has proper ESD protection. I refused to use proper shoes and experienced ESDs proportional to the amount of softener used when I washed my cloth.Now found one brand that is from natural components and I find it that is really efficient. My recommendation is to use more softener if your dress code includes synthetic materials.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 11:03:42 pm
content: There is a special kind of ionizer (and they are expensive) that emits both kinds of ions, bleeding off static charges...At least that is how I understand it. Negative ions, the kind produced by the usual ionizers, arenotwhat you want.It might be possible to build this kind of ionizer.

author: CDN_Torsten
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 12:38:44 am
content: As mentioned - raising the humidity is a good first step - this should help in most cases.The second reason may be related to the materials which your chair and carpet are made of. Some items are really good at generating a static charge. In this case you should be able to purchase an anti-static spray which when applied to the furniture/carpet eliminates/reduces the static charge created by these materials.Try to search for "anti-static spray" or "staticide".

author: geggi1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 05:11:42 am
content: Use less syntetic fibers in your clothing.Natural fibers like woll and cotton will giv e you less static electrics.Most of the time static buildups originate from the feets especialy if the floors have carpets.

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 06:23:30 am
content: I have the opposite problem. I bought a de-humidifier for it. It cost money, it benefits the entire house.Nusa, gave you what be my first suggest. humidifier, or tray of water if heater nearby.james_s would be the next -wear cotton. If you're doing the COVID stay-at-home thing, then make sure your bathrobe and pajamas are all cotton. none of this mixed fibers BScdev has a good suggestion an air ionzier. It is a negative ion generator. Not the other anti-static type they create that toxic type of oxygen..Not hard to build one either.However, do keep keep near your work area. They also pull out even tiny dust and it is a pain to clean that type. If DIYing, include a positive, or is it a grounding collector next to, or a part of it.( Not sure how to build that part). IT pulls in most the the dust laden particles-Several have suggested bare feet, another is is just a piece of metal, or aluminum plate on the floor where you place your feet. DO NOT ground that to building electrical earth, thoug. A "feel good safer" option, is a small cotton throw rug under your feet.james_s & CDS_Torsten Also have pointed out the chair, most modern office chairs use synthetic materials, quick solution is cover the seat and back with cotten cloth. I have some all clothe restaurant napkin over the seat and I seem to use the back for hanging a cotton shirt and my hoodie.And geggi1 is correct, today all carpets are or at least have synthetic materialsMay process would be in sequence.1.) All cotton chair, cotton clothes, cotton rug,2.) humidifier/evaporator tray of water,3.)rug or metal plate/rubber shoes,4.) negative ion-generator.The ion generator may be a "go ahead and do anyway", keeps the air clean and nice. just put in middle or room or near the opposite roomHope all this helps, I cannot think of anything beyond what has already been suggestedLet us know how you solved it!

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 06:38:44 am
content: Yep as others have said easiest is a humidifier. Low humidity is not healthy in the first place, so it might evem feel more comfortable to raise it.Clothes are the other big culprit, synthetic fibers love to build static charge, but it sounds like much to change your wardrobe you already like just for the sake of static.Very insulating footwear can also be the cause, its easy to try a different kind of slippers, or perhaps even try moding your existing pair by taking a sewing needle and giving them some conductive metal fabric thread between the inside and bottom. Or just not wear them, i always just wear cotton socks indoors and those don't insulate that well.Fluffy synthetic carpets are huge static generators, but yeah its not so simple to just replace all your carpet, especially if its wall to wall carpeting. But a humidifier could solve this one too, making the carpet conductive enough. Might be worth trying one of those antistatic spay on the carpet too.When it comes to working with electronics i did make a habit of touching grounded objects when sitting down or pulling off a layer of clothing. I'm not a believer in antistatic bracelets, too much annoyance. Don't even have a antistatic mat at home. Do have a antistatic workbench mat at work and i use that to discharge myself by just leaning an arm on it.

author: rfclown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 06:52:13 am
content: That isn't a good static mat. The proper ones can have resistance so high that you'd swear that they aren't conductive (beyond the range of many DDMs).I just choose to like in a semi tropical climate. Even running the AC all the time doesn't keep humidity low enough to cause problems here. Of course mold and algea grow here all year long.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 07:10:30 am
content: Are you sure you're getting static shocks and that it's not a floating ground problem somewhere.If it is static then I would try other footwear. I've definitely noticed that some brands of shoes are terrible for building up static shocks while others don't do it..

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:01:49 am
content: Can you guys can quantify the target humidity? IMHO 40% RH is good.

author: kultakala
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:09:22 am
content: Oh, so many replies.... lets see.I forgot to mention that i have hard floor in my flat (laminate), so no carpet.And i can rule out the shoes and the chair... I am getting the shocks also when i just stand in front of my desk and dont touch the chair.Btw, my desk is made of glass.And its no difference if i have socks on or walk with bare feet.If i put shoes on its getting worse.My clothes are just cotton, no synthetics...The air humidity is around low 30s right now... and i have several water "thingamabobbs" attached to the heaters, but its not doing much, 5% at most.Guess i have to wait for spring time hereAt first i ordered a different socket plug with 1 MegOhm resistance and will give the mat another chance.About the floating ground problem, how can i check that ?

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:41:16 am
content: With low humidity you will see a spark jumping from your finger into the frame of your doors, pipes, water taps, and other metallic objects, etc. But you wrote that is not the case..It seems your chair or desk's top made of (or covered with) synthetic material (or something like "ebonite") is well isolated from the surrounding area thus it creates and carries the charge you then discharge via your hand into the grounded objects.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 10:31:28 am
content: I find the same thing with my Ikea chair. If I get up off it, I can almost guarantee the next thing I touch will get a zap. On really dry days, it's enough to throw the sync of my monitor out for a few seconds.Since the legs are metal and appear to be very well grounded, as I'm getting up, I make sure one foot touches the metal until I'm on my feet, so just about all static is dissipated. It hasn't failed me yet.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 10:36:06 am
content: I have a RH% of about 25 to 40 in winter and static is never really a issue. Its rare for me to get a shock of any kind, most of the static is from changing clothes where you can definitely feel it and hear it crackling.Having a 1Meg vs 100K resistor to earth from the mat won't make much of a difference, you can still feel a shock trough 1M since that is about what my ESD mat at work has and i felt it before. But you probably feel it less with 1Meg.I find it hard to believe that a ground fault would cause this. Don't think any of the mains powered devices would have enough isolation from the earth referenced L and N wires to actually cause a static shock. That fault causes a different kind of shock. Its devices leaking a tiny amount of current into the earth wire causing it to rise to 100V. The sensation of touching that depends on how much current is being leaked in. At very low currents you might notice a buzzing sensation when running your finger over metal surfaces, as if the surface was slightly bumpy. At slightly higher currents you might notice a uncomfortable pin prick like sensation when touching sharp corners of metal objects (this concentrates the current in a small enough area to be felt). If the current is even higher then it might start feeling like an actual electric shock. The sensation continues to happen even if you let go and touch it again a split second later. With enough earth leaky appliances on a faulty earth power strip can collect together enough leaking current for this shock to even be properly painful. These shocks are generally not dangerous as the currents are just so low. But do become a very dangerous situation when one of the appliances actually does go faulty and shorts between L and PE, effectively making touching metal cases the same as touching Live.

author: CDN_Torsten
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 11:18:38 am
content: For target humidity, I would target 40% or higher.Additionally, have a look at this list, and compare it to the materials in your workspace:http://tcdsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/scroache/Sci%20Electricity/Materials%20that%20Cause%20Static%20Electricity.htm

author: kultakala
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 12:11:26 pm
content: My chair and desk may be isolated from ground but if i stand directly in front of the desk on the hard floor and touch nothing but the computer keyboard i get a spark...So material of the chair and other stuff are not playing any roll.Guess its just to dry and the laminate floor may be isolating a bit too.Just sprayed my socks with water so that they are slightly wet... no shocks or sparks.When the air humidity is higher the problem will go away, but i look for a solution to prevent getting shocked or destroying my computer until then

author: rfclown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 07:05:01 pm
content: I've worked a place were they put a coating on the floor for anti-static (and we were required to wear an anti-static coat and things over our shoes to enter the production area). Part of the solution could be an antistatic mat on the floor.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:07:26 pm
content: Sounds almost like the computer is accumulating static charge, not youAre you sure it's grounded well?

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 08:44:00 pm
content: Do you have any pets?

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 03:58:06 pm
content: I wear a tin foil suit with hood -it works against 7G radiation too.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 04:25:56 pm
content: Collecting the charge off the CRT TV screen by your hand and discharging it into someones nose was a popular practical joke during my childhood

author: kultakala
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 02:14:29 pm
content: I have no pets at home... and my computer is grounded well... not sure about my keyboard...Cant imagine how the keyboard would charge up, just connected by usb cable.Also there is discharge when i touch the socket ground... Hmmm...Right now its mostly okay, because air humidity is a little bit higher at around 40%.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 02:53:01 am
content: Could you see if consuming (orally) some n-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) helps?I think maybe two big OOO caps is an appropriate amount, every couple of hours. might help. This also helps reduce the discomfort and hearing damage caused by very loud sounds, and I suspect sensitivity felt by some people to some frequencies of RF. (duck)Quote from: kultakala on January 27, 2021, 02:35:11 pm

author: DrG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 03:42:09 am
content: Quote from: kultakala on February 02, 2021, 02:14:29 pmIt sounds a little strange but the RH clue makes me think that it is the same kinds of static electricity annoyance that we all get. Why it is in that one area more than any other is a puzzle, but it is possible that it is a particularly dry area of the place.You already received suggestions of raising the RH. I would add some anti-static spray and see if it makes a difference. I used to make this by just adding liquid fabric softener to water in a spray bottle. I am sure that there are recipes on YouTube and elsewhere. The stuff works, but you are spraying a thin layer of film all over. Even though it is probably pretty safe and cleans up easily, it still spraying junk all around. You can test it out by taking one of those drier sheets, if you have one handy, and vigorously rubbing it with your hands. Wash up afterwards.I used to use it sparingly but there were times in one place I lived where it was just so bad that I had to do something.Before doing that, if you so choose, I would at least run the experiment of disconnecting everything that is powered from that desk and see if there is any change.Hope it helps.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2021, 10:05:37 pm
content: There is a specific kind of ionizer that emits both kinds of ions at the same time not just one, and this reduces ESD. And of course humidity in the air does something similar.What I am thinking is that it must be possible to make this kind of ionizer cheaply. There really isnt that much in them.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2021, 04:10:28 pm
content: Increasing humidity is good, and it helps your health, too.If you can stand it being ugly, get a metal desk. Touch the desk first, before the computer. if necessary, ground the desk to the mains earth with a 1 Meg Ohm resistor.We have something in the US called Carbona, it is a spray-on anti-static material that women use to stop static charging of nylons and skirst with synthetic fiber. They likely have something like that available in the EU, also. Spray it on your chair, maybe the floor around the chair, etc.Jon

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2021, 10:34:06 pm
content: Quote from: TheNewLab on January 28, 2021, 06:23:30 amNegative ions are not the kind that reduces ESD (neutralizes charges). I think what the ESD reduction products generate are both kinds at the same time.. (racemic) non-polar discharges.Look around for ESD reduction products that are patented and look up the patents. . The kinds of ionizers that are used in electronics manufacturing and cost an arm and a leg are what you should try building for your own use.. (I'm not suggesting you violate anybody's IP. ). What I am thinking is that no kind of ionizer seems like it would cost that much to make. ...yourself.I had a bad experience decades ago that messed up my health badly and I think anegative ionizer made it worse.This situation benefited greatly from work that was done gratis by two labs and a number of very nice people who tried to help us sort it out. It would not have been horrid as it was were it not for very irresponsible real estate rental managers who viewed tenants as having stayed too long if they paid rent on time and simply lived responsibly in apartments. What they wanted is constant churn, so the resents kept rising along with the going rate. All of the tenants in that building were. All had decent jobs, were quiet, didnt damage things.They wanted churn.Rents at the time was rising into the stratosphere in one of the most outrageous housing situations in the world. 20% a year was not unusual in apartments that were not under rent stabilization laws. . I lived in that apartment for basically a decade, always paid rent on time.The problem was an infestation with toxic mold in the building. This was not only irritating to your eyes and nose , it was literally toxic.As mentioned negative charges pull tiny dust particles out of the air and they are attracted to the walls and wherever the ionizer is located (nearby walls) especially to anything thats grounded, like wires and the inside of electronics. Well in the apartment I used to live in's attic there was a lot of toxic black mold. It emits toxic satratoxin h,around the 60th most toxic thing known.Anyway, the ionizer makes the tiny particles of this toxin (and it is a real toxin, produced by a mold to kill off all other living things, in proportion to the humidity level. Its not imaginary. It can kill. Its officially a bioweapon.)The mold produces this toxin as part of a polysaccharide matrix. a greasy sugar like crystalline coating on the outside of its spores. Most of the toxin ends up in microscopic particles in the air. The smaller the particles, the more toxic they are to you. And the more influenced they are by negative ions. (they are positively charged, especially if you are near the ocean.They are powerfully attracted to hair. cables of all kinds, electronics, and generally anything that they encounter while floating around in the air.It turned out they were present in large quantities on my large collection of cables of all kinds. I attempted to clean them off using a dilute ammonia solution and damp rages and thick rubber gloves. But after answering a phone call on my cell phone I accidentally put one of the rubber gloves I was wearing (the kinds that lab workers wear, not the thin nitrile gloves. inside out getting that stuff on my hand. In around three or four minutes the hand just started to hurt. A lot. I took it off and washed my hand and the glove off with soap and water. Within the next coupe of minutes my hand turned bright scarlet red and started to feel swollen.I'll never make that mistake again. Anyway, this is only the one electronics related episode of many bizarre things that happened then. Just a few days after this happened, we decided to move out of this apartment. We were told by the two labs that were helping us that we had to move for good because they would never be able to clean up up adequately without tearing the building down to studs which we knew they would NEVER do. To themwewere the problem for complaining. We moved into a tiny, unbelievably expensive studio and then knowing we could never afford an adequate place to live and tired of the housing wars, out of the area.I would advise not humidifying because of the aforementioned experience. Humidity=mold which is potentially very unhealthy. It might be one of the least healthy things you encounter in life.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2021, 11:08:12 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on March 27, 2021, 10:34:06 pmThat is no more true than water = drowning or heat = fire. EXCESSIVE humidity is one of several requirements for mold to grow.Some humidity is required for comfort. In winter climates, often the natural humidity is below the comfort level.The subject of this thread was humidity levels low enough to cause static issues, so much as you love your anecdote, it does not apply to this situation.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2021, 12:34:59 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on March 27, 2021, 11:08:12 pm>That is no more true than water = drowning or heat = fire. EXCESSIVE humidity is one of several requirements for mold to grow.You got it.. That and the presence of a suitable medium for it to grow on cellulose (paper) and gypsum wallboard is ideal mold food.>Some humidity is required for comfort. In winter climates, often the natural humidity is below the comfort level.The subject of this thread was humidity levels low enough to cause static issues, so much as you love your anecdote, it does not apply to this situation.Yes,but there is a kind of ionizer that neutralizes static charges, its unreasonably expensive so not being used. There is a possibility for a useful aid to makers, perhaps there.The information a previous poster posted (thet negative ions neutralize ESD was wrong.. As I understand it, its a different kind of ionizer.Whats more the negative ions attract possibly dangerous dusts.