Should EEVblog have circuits by members of the forum page - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:08:47 pm
content: Should eevblog publish its own in house catalogue or page of diy circuit schematicsby uses of the forum?-of course it must becopyright freeso us electronics hobbyist's, and the less electronically skilled of us, can getgood reliable tested circuits. that are copyright freefor just the cost of a pcb. that are uptodate. simple circuits are the best. but must be reliable tested circuits. willing to share with others in the forum. something that works.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:37:10 pm
content: Well that idea certainly is interesting, but bear in mind, that this must have "profits" (not necessarily money) or advantages for both the circuit author and Dave to do so.Imagine some user do have their own website. Advertising only the schematic (linking to the forum) might not be nice against the author. But it depends on the author what will he agree to. And now imagine that 100 circuits authors equals 100 different requirements on how things should be published and blabla... I do not think this is a very viable option for anyone to go through.There already are some threads here about peoples electronics channels on youtube and maybe even their websites. Just look it up. I guess you will quickly find and interesting stash of learning materials.y.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:40:12 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 27, 2017, 01:08:47 pmWhy on Earth would you want reliable circuits to learn? You want unreliable circuits or outright broken ones. That's how you learn!

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:02:59 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 27, 2017, 01:40:12 pmyes I can find lots of unreliable circuits on other websites and most are not contemporary. and yes that's how you learna page of diy circuits .......... just an idea

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on December 27, 2017, 01:37:10 pmPersonally speaking, I don't care. Anything I post here can be freely copied and used to make anyone money. I'm not interested in any royalties for anything I post here.Most of the circuits I post here haven't been tested: some of them probably won't even work in real life, others will work with minor adjustments and some will be good as is.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:48:11 pm
content: Every site I have belonged to has implemented a similar idea be it for circuits, code, product evaluations, and so forth, and they all fail in short order. Typically, the endeavor begins with a lot of enthusiasm and after that dies, no one checks to see if the list still exists. New posters and even more experienced posters don't check because there isno indexand no way to tell chaff from the grain.The basic idea appeals to me. In chemistry, there are compendiums of synthetic methods, all of which have been independently validated. They are quite useful to both beginners and experts alike. Examples are Synthetic Methods, Feiser & Feiser: Reagents for Organic Synthesis, and others.My suggestions:1) How will the circuits be indexed? (I consider this the most important element missing from failed attempts.)It is probably unlikely that all or even most circuits will be validated independently given the way blogs work. So,2) How will submissions be evaluated for acceptance?3) How will comments be edited?Regards,

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 03:10:44 pm
content: There's the sadly underutilisedEEVblog Resource Wiki. If there was an easy procedure in place to get pages added to it, and some defence against numpties and vandals wrecking pages faster than we can maintain them (e.g. limit edits to registered forum members in good standing, based on whatever forum metrics the admins prefer), then it could easily be used for crowd-sourced index pages for the forum.For this specific case, if you see a cool project in a thread here (or have just posted one), you'd go the the (as yet unimplemented) projects and circuits index page on the Wiki, and if is not already there, add a link to it and a brief description.@Jonovid,I don't know if you can add a poll to a topic retroactively. If its possible, and it shows support for your idea or you can otherwise gather a consensus, why not approach Dave and Gnif with your suggestion. IMHO it has merit.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 04:53:44 pm
content: On one hand I do see it as something that is needed (known working projects, rather than the incomplete, poorly documented, or just plain fake ones).I've gotten really annoyed when I think I've found something good, but the part values aren't given, or the entire thing is clearly untested as would never work.But....I don't wish Dave the problems that occur when you release a tutorial for something, on the internet.Expect a flood of comments/emails like:a) Please email the project files for this to... email address (ever though the bloody files are in plain sight for download).b) Can you make a schematic for XYZ (something completely unrelated to the original project)c) Can you do my homework for me (FFS)d) I can't get half the parts for this project, can I use other random stuff listed below instead ? (yeah good luck answering that)If you are one of the people that do these sorts of comments I hate you. Being so annoying to others that give up making any more videos/tutorials is bad.Given how easy it is to find Dave's email, or the EEVblog forum, I'd recommend making a stand alone website, with no comments or email addresses. Perhaps EEVblog forum users could be the ones that sift through everything to check for mistakes or junk projects, in their chosen area of interest.

author: kalel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 05:00:10 pm
content: Could it be done on the forum as a type of list?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 12:52:43 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 27, 2017, 01:40:12 pmI've never been a subscriber to the "learn by failing" school of thought.In many cases, people with no Technical knowledge find some fundamentally flawed circuit, fall in love with it, & try to make it work.After a lot of "trial & error" they go on this forum & try to dragoon members into diagnosing the problem(s).When they are told that the thing is unworkable, they become incensed & either stomp off or start making personal attacks on the members that tried to help them!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:34:06 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on December 27, 2017, 01:08:47 pmProvide something, anything, and the consumers only want more. Even if you provide a fully tested and reliable circuit across parameter variations a user will soon ask for it to be redesigned without some special part (which was essential for the operation) or updated for the new part which just came out or outright entirely changed to suit their preference. There is a wealth of quality information on the forum already but making it easier to find and browse through will only introduce more demands on those providing the content.When designing something you should be researching possible approaches and its never been easier than it is today with the wealth of information quickly available on the internet. If you want kits to build and placate your ideas of "making" there are already many sources for those already.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:47:51 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 27, 2017, 03:10:44 pmThat got destroyed by the spam bots so I had to turn off all access.If there was some way (and I'm sure there is) to automatically give access to SMF forum members using their existing forum login then it could potentially work well.That would be a fully custom coding solution though.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:51:11 am
content: Woah, I just checked and there is this plugin for MediaWiki (the one I use for the EEVblog Wiki) that allows automatic SMF user database accesshttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SMF_Auth_Integrationhttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SMF_AuthenticationOh wow, last update was 2008, and the download link is dead.And another version:https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SMF/Users_IntegrationSMF are on board with it:https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=461612.0

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:08:29 am
content: It would be awesome if the the Wiki integrated the look and feel of the forum like is does on SMF's website:http://wiki.simplemachines.org/But I'm not sure if they have released the templates or whatnot for that?

author: iampoor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 03:38:22 am
content: What about having "sticky" threads, or threads that are organized as "Meta's" with links to third party projects that are verified and working? That way, the moderators, and Dave are not swamped with requests to Add 3 million features per project. I think the problem with this kind of content is getting users with no experience wanting other people to do work for them for free.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 04:49:50 am
content: I don't see (forum software) that helps a community to build things. As one example, members all have equal rights.Whether noob or troll or expert EE, experience/education level is weighed the same.Next level, social media tries to use "upvotes" or "karma" points to filter out the noise. But here, the only hierarchy is based on respect and knowing who is a reasonable voice.How would circuits by members be known to be any good? It could be an endless troll-fest complaining and nit picking from people who don't even own a soldering iron.People have their own blog or website when they build circuits, mostly to boost their ego or show offSo I'm wondering how EEVblog helps it out.SMF seems really limited, is it evolving much? A quick glance atvBulletinand it looked like more lively add ons.Although I haven't seen a (software) solution for organizing crowd sourcing. A zillion crowdFUNDING sites, but nothing for the design team.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 05:04:43 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on December 28, 2017, 04:49:50 amSMF doesn't get much development love, but it's stable and works well.Forums are only a solution for forum type stuff, not as a repository for circuits or links etc, they are much better suited to a wiki.I think an integrated Wiki linked to forum user accounts would be a great idea.If a Wiki community is big enough then it should self manage quite nicely.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 06:35:05 pm
content: I don't think aWiki'sgoing to do it.It's just a centralized document. Flat levels of access so anyone can modify it, regardless of skill level.A battle over content results and I think it needs hierarchy and leadership, and donations lol."This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed."We're just going to have acres of haggling over math, physics, thermodynamics, electronics on a circuit? I dunno."Most people, when they first learn about the wiki concept, assume that a Web site that can be edited by anybody would soon be rendered useless by destructive input. It sounds like offering free spray cans next to a grey concrete wall. The only likely outcome would be ugly graffiti and simple tagging, and many artistic efforts would not be long lived. Still, it seems to work very well."I'm not convinced it works well, electronics/a circuit is much more complex than an encyclopedia definition.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 07:52:37 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on December 28, 2017, 06:35:05 pmThose who ruin it get banned on the forum as well as the Wiki, so there is incentive not to screw with it.QuoteBut a community Wiki is useful for a ton of other stuff.I just had a message from someone who wants to use it to provide definite and latest data on the $20 LCR meter for example. For that sort of thing it's fantastic, no need to read through literally thousands of threads. The Wiki could therefore be used to have the latest concise information on a hack or whatever it is, with links to forum messages etc.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 08:03:38 am
content: Confluence shines at this sort of thing, but I doubt it'd work in a public setting, not to mention licensing issues.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 09:12:32 am
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 27, 2017, 01:40:12 pmIf you mean you don't learn much by simply duplicating others' work, true. However, there is a need for pointers in the right direction as to how to design things. Otherwise you just spend countless hours of frustration and never achieve a good result.Examples of that are the number of experimenters who have power transistors blow repeatedly because they don't understand thermal design. Or, the ones who run multivibrators from 12v supplies and wonder why the frequency varies all over the place. On their own they may never figure out why. With a few pointers as to correct design principles they avoid these gotchas.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 11:36:50 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on December 29, 2017, 09:12:32 amOK, fair enough about the thermal design of transistor power stages, but you lost me with themultivibrators.Apart from multivibrators being far from the most frequency stable devices at any time, why should 12v supplies cause any particular problems, if they are well regulated supplies in the first place?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 05:05:14 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on December 29, 2017, 11:36:50 amBecause when the supply voltage exceeds the actual reverse Vbe Zener breakdown voltage by more than about 1V, when the transistor turning on pulls the collector end of the opposite transistor's timing capacitor low, it reverse biasses the opposite transistor's Vbe junction enough to Zener it. (The extra 1V is from 0.7V forward Vbe initially on the transistor base, and 0.3V Vce_sat limiting the swing). This makes the timing significantly sensitive to the supply voltage, and also tends to degrade the transistors - an order of magnitude reduction in hFEin under 1000 hours would not be exceptional.(Seehttp://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/apec/2001/053209.pdffor a report on the degradation of 2N2222 transistors by reverse Vbe Zenering)The easy cure in a multivibrator circuit is to add a diode in series with each base.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 06:10:39 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 29, 2017, 05:05:14 pmThat's a common error.Another cause of the frequency being excessively sensitive to changes in supply voltage, is when the standard astable multi-vibrator is used to drive LEDs directly, especially when the VFis higher, in the case of two or more LEDs connected in series.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 03:46:00 am
content: A lot of what this blog lives on is people willing and able to help others. A circuit catalog could be an efficient way to help, and contributing to it would fall in that same generosity category. But the thing that would be most helpful would be full documentation on the circuits. Design goals, methods selected, limitations, range of operation and so on. So that those who had some interest and motivation could do the modifications mentioned in prior posts themselves.The brief dialogue above on multivibrator circuits is a great example of the type of information that might be included.Generating this is a lot of work, but it would be a tremendous resource. And not just for newbies. None of us is expert on every corner of electronics. When some circuit block is needed for some corner of a project it is a great boon to have a solid starting point. Whether that circuit block is a low noise analogue front end, an RF gain stage or a high power H-Bridge driver.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 03:48:20 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on December 29, 2017, 05:05:14 pmI thought it would be something like that.Now people know your original comment was not just a "throwaway comment".When I first learnt about M/Vs, we made them with vacuum tubes ----usually 12AT7s!

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2017, 03:41:05 pm
content: I raised the idea of a wiki for collecting T&M information and got pointed here.How about KISS? Add a section for summaries of long running threads where people can link to important posts. Same structure, so no new work other than setting up a set of subgroups to match the existing subgroups. I simply mentioned the LCR thread as an example. The FeelTech FY-6600 thread has a ton of really useful things like SA plots of the output and a comparison to an R&S AWG.If someone will point me to candidate wiki software and source for the EEVblog forum I'll take a look at using the user credentials from EEVblog in the wiki. If things are not too object obfuscated it shouldn't be a lot of work. I've got MediaWiki documentation already, though I've not fiddled with it in a while.I've got a cold room to move in CA, so I won't be able to look into any of this until after the middle of January. In the mean time I shall be enjoying my brother in-law's wine.