Help me choose a spectrum analyzer - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2020, 11:03:48 pm
content: Hi,I live in a not rich country and need help choosing a good spectrum analyzer with great (Performace+Capabilities)/Price ratio. I'm afraid to deal with customs. In the past, I was unable to clear the oscilloscope through customs,and then the oscilloscope was stolen on the way back, and I lost $2500.Big money for me. We have an average salary of $300 a month.I have a choice among this list:- Siglent SSA3021X Plus 2.1GHz(Free TG, can be hack) - with customs and postage fee it will be cost $2350. Bad price, i can't buy it in our country.Even if can find there buy it our country, our price will be about $3000. Dumb and greedy official dealers. If i turn to intermediaries for customs clearance, the price can rise by $100-500.I don't know how much they ask for services, in different cities and companies in different ways. Our laws only allow companies to clear oscilloscope and SA in customs.- Rohde & Schwarz CMU200 2.7GHz - $950. NO TG, BW 1MHz. Avaible options: B12, B21v14, B52v14, B54v14, U65v04. Great price, No customs.Can buy cheap TG from bg7tbl.- Anritsu MS8608A 7.8GHz - $1670. Good options: 01, 02, 03, 04, 08, 09, 31, 33, 36, 46. WIFI Analize Software, BW 20Mhz. NO TG. No customs.Can I use bg7tbl nwt3000 as TG?- Anritsu MS8609A 13.2GHz - $2000 Options: 01, 04, 31. NO TG. No customs.- HP Agilent 8595EM 6.5 GHz - $1650. Options: EMC. No customs.- HP Agilent 8596E 12.8GHz - $1750. No customs.- HP Agilent E7401A 1.5Ghz - $1500. Options: EMC, 1DS, 1DR, B72, 1DN, 1D5, A4H GPIB, AYQ. No customs.- HP Agilent E4402B 3GHz - $1800. Options: 1DR, B72, A4H GPIB, BAA, AYX. No customs.- HP Agilent E4404B 6.7GHz - $2000. No customs.- Rohde & Schwarz R&S FSIQ3 3GHz - $2150. Options: B4, B5, B7. No customs.- Rohde & Schwarz R&S FSEB30 7GHz - $2300. Options B4, B5. No customs.I need EMC, but if I can implement cheaply with external devices, that's not a problem. I only need LNA and probes for this?Also I want to have demodulators, TG, vector analyze. It's not a problem if this functionality is not available and I can implement it using gpib programming and matlab.Of course I would like to have a higher frequency for research and repair Wi-Fi devices.Thank you! Happy New Year!

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2020, 11:28:30 pm
content: Why not buy a used one? You can get a lot for your money that way. Of course I don't know the problems that would entail with your political issues.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2020, 11:40:41 pm
content: Quote from: bob91343 on December 27, 2020, 11:28:30 pmThanks for the answer. Only siglent can be new. Other devices in list is previously used and I founded them in our country. We have 25% customs fee. This is without intermediaries for customs clearance. The total markup will be at least 50%. There is an option to buy SA and write an "Audio Amplifier", then I can clear customs myself and the fee will be 10%.

author: innkeeper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 01:45:53 am
content: What are your use cases?

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2020, 02:23:52 am
content: Quote from: innkeeper on December 28, 2020, 01:45:53 amThanks for the answer. Research. I design fpga, microntroller device ~150MHz, also it has wifi. I definitely need EMC to view bugs in design.My design is very picky about noise immunity, and a clock generator. And for the future I would like to be able to research and design RF paths.I would like to have a universal hardware solution. As mentioned above, any missing software functions are not a problem for me. I have good mathematical background and can write the missing functionality myself.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 09:54:41 am
content: Hello,Your question is difficult, because you mix different aspects.If you are purchasing a Spectrum Analyzer for a commercial environment (aka company), then my all means consider a new device with calibration and warranty.If you are a "one man show", working at home in semi-hobby environment, then you may consider a second hand unit. However, bear in mind that second-hand units mean:1) Might be broken at the time of purchase2) Might break any moment after purchase3) Usually not calibrated/certified4) Often with limited functionality: missing probes for EMI measurement, no dedicated functionality for what you want to do, etc,Perhaps the best would be to invest in a proper new device and in this case Siglent definitly is the best price/performance ration for entry level.Regards,Vitor

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 12:33:35 pm
content: Bicurico, Thank you!Unfortunately, it is not possible to buy siglent from us officially.Officials do not have this model. They only have entry-level devices like sds-1104. Also, this model is not in the register of devices in our country, and there are no certificates of compliance with the standards of our country. Without this, it will be very difficult and significantly expensive to go through the customs procedure.I'm not ready to pay $3000+ for a device that costs $1600. There is no guarantee that all be fine. Buying Siglent for me is a lottery.I am "one man show". I don't need high precision.Above is a list of devices and options that they offer for their price.This is a list of devices that I found in our country. What do you think has the best functionality and price?It's easier and cheaper for me to buy several cheaper devices for the missing functionality, since it's easier by customs.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 02:20:29 pm
content: I would stay away from older spectrum analyzers that still use CRT screens, like the HP 85xx series.I own three and two are broken. Capacitors will fail, PSU's are almost impossible to repair.I had a newer Keysight (belongs to HP/Agilent) here for repair (PSU). It was an E4xxx series. I did not particularily get fond of it. Main reason was that it was doing constantly some annoying clicking noises, which are supposed to be normal due to auto-calibration or whatever.I would go with R&S, but honestly I could not give you a valid technical reason. I own several CMU200 and CRTU and the spectrum they render has an amazingly fast sweep rate and pretty high resolution. Precision seems to be of high standard, too.But don't get yourself a CMU200 as your prime spectrum analyzer, as it does not provide any advanced functionality (you could use my software to get more out of it).The "Rohde & Schwarz R&S FSEB30 7GHz - $2300. Options B4, B5. No customs." seems to be a nice deal, but of course it depends of its condition.Regards,Vitor

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 02:21:08 pm
content: pick it up in a car from someone

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 09:02:29 pm
content: I am also attracted to R&S.FSEB30 looks like new, but has no R&S sticker and device is opened. The verification was also a very long time ago - 2011year in Hong Kong.It turns out that the device was not used in our country, and can have some bugs. From the pictures it works well.Not sure if it has GPIB, it has GPIB port but in manual writed need option for this.It also seems to have no external 10Mhz clock port. But it have OCXO 10 MHz and Low Phase Noise, it's big plus.I also do not understand what functionality I can get from it with GPIB.There are no demodulators and vector analysis. I wonder, I can get them using GPIB and self-written software?My favorite on the list is CMU200 and Anritsu.Anritsu gives a lot of opportunities for its money, but I have not found a single video with its work. I like how it is shielded inside. Anritsu have slow GPIB.I could not find information on the speed of operation of all devices.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 10:17:10 pm
content: When time will come to repair, Anritsu would likely be the one you wont find much if any information on.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 11:31:10 pm
content: Someone asked the same question a couple of months ago. My recommendation to them was an old Hewlett Packard 141 SA. But these are big and heavy (aka a boat anchor) so buying and shipping one may not be practical for you. However if you can get one I would strongly recommend it for the same reasons that I gave before, 1) HP built a zillion of them and they're readily available (in the US!) and cheap, 2) They are WELL documented with complete service manuals available , 3) they used readily available discrete parts instead of hybrids made of unobtainium, 4) there is WIDE user support and used parts available., 5) there are a ton of different modules, options and plug ins available for them including such things as prescalers and tracking generator so they're very versatile. 6) Being HP they are WELL designed and WELL made.Check out the discussion in the other thread. IIRC that user did end up buying a HP 141 and is very happy with it. You might also want to download the HP 141 manuals and study them before you make a decision.FYI I have two Anritsu SAs including one with the TG and Ilikethem but there is NO service information available so when they die, that will probably be the end of them.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2020, 11:51:11 pm
content: Unfortunately Hewlett Packard 141 SA is very old and don't have modern digital features. Newer devices now use digital modulation and need this functionality to work with them.I would like to be able to capture digital signals and analyze it on a computer using matlab.

author: eevcandies
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 01:31:10 am
content: I did an EBAY buy it now last year on an Anritsu MS8609 13 GHz for around $1500 (USD)...it has:Opt04 Digital resolution BW (RBW 10Hz)Opt05 Rubiduim clock (1x10e-10/mo)Opt08 Pre-Amp (100KHz-3GHz+20 dB, NF=6.5 typ)Opt31 Low Noise Floor (-112dBm in 7.7-13.2 GHz band)Opt32 Max Input Range Extension (to +30 dBm, ref:-100 to +40 dBm)cdma & other packages I didn't care much aboutIt arrived in flawless shape, like it just came from the factory. In fact, to my surprise, it came with a full 9 pages of recent full cal/test certification from Agilent/Keysight cal lab...all passing dead-nuts-center..I think it just sat around after being cal'd.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 02:17:14 am
content: Anritsu MS8609A great device, but it has a big drawback,GPIB speed only 120kbps. I think this will be a big hindrance when analyzing data on a computer. However, if the data is well packed, then this speed may be effective.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 06:31:23 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/used-spectrum-analyzer-buyer_s-guide/

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 06:11:22 pm
content: I decided to choose Anritsu MS8609A because only it can capture 20MHz and can be controlled with ethernet that give more speed for RT analysis. It turned out that the seller has several devices, and I can choice options and installed programs.Thank you all for your help!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 08:30:00 am
content: Quote from: nullik on December 30, 2020, 06:11:22 pmWere you not aware SSA3021X+ has a really good websever for remote control ?That they can also be converted to a SVA1032X and all options enabled makes them a no brainier selection in the entry level SA bracket.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 08:48:07 am
content: tautechThank you. Above was written the reason why I can not choose it. I also looked at the reviews and the device has a bunch of bugs, high measurement error and show phantom peaks. By the number of functions it is the best. But the quality of the device is poor.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 09:11:05 am
content: Quote from: nullik on December 31, 2020, 08:48:07 amYou are very wrong.All reviews are of old models mostly SSA3000X and not the later Plus models. SSA3021X Plus was on your list not the older models.Some early SSA3kX had an issue with shielding of the RF PCB and new improved shields were made available to anyone that had the old models. Phantom spurs are present in all SA and these are much less in SSA3kX models when the improved shields are fitted and later SSA3kX Plus are no worse than any other SA for phantom spurs.If you had studied the firmware releases and their respective release notes you should know there are no known bugs in new Plus or SVA models.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 09:24:05 am
content: tautech, you are probably right, but there is a more serious reason why I can't buy it.QuoteQuote

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 09:36:47 am
content: Yes I understand but when it is €1,469 in Europe as someone said go for a drive across the border.https://www.siglenteu.com/spectrum-analyzers/ssa3000x-plus/

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 10:00:15 am
content: Depending on where OP is located in Russia, it could be a long drive!

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 10:28:08 am
content: tautechIn Europe possible to drive between countries in a couple of hours.During this time, I will not even be able to get to Moscow.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 10:36:25 am
content: Not sure if this is a SSA3021XPlushowever if it is you can get them locally:http://www.instruments.ru/new/catalog/measure/product_spectran/Seriya-AKIP-4205/4205-1/If the specs list it as having a webserver them it certainly is the Plus version.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 10:51:06 am
content: tautechit's SSA3021X with 1500eur price, not plus.The price is not bad. The same device in official dealer siglent in Russia cost 1850eurhttps://prist.ru/catalog/analizatory_signalov_i_spektra_laboratornye/akip_4205_1_tg/This model here is 3021x plus. But it is not available anywhere, and where it's present a price of about 3000 euros.https://prist.ru/catalog/analizatory_signalov_i_spektra/akip_4212_1/

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 11:14:21 am
content: Quote from: nullik on December 31, 2020, 10:51:06 amHappy 2021.12.14am Jan 1 2021 in NZ

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2021, 12:06:48 pm
content: Quote from: nullik on December 31, 2020, 10:51:06 amSend them a message asking to confirm pricing (seems too high) and if/when it will be available.

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2021, 12:35:34 pm
content: tautech, I wrote to them to clarify when the spectrum analyzer will be available.I also asked for a discount, they sometimes make concessions to radio amateurs.Now long holidays and no one has answered yet.

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 09:10:37 am
content: A good ham friend of mine always refers to these as a "rectum paralyser" lol 73 de m3vuv.

author: eevcandies
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 02:35:11 am
content: Did you end up getting a good price on your analyzer? What freq range did you settle on? Was your unit calibrated?

author: nullik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 06:57:47 am
content: Quote from: eevcandies on January 18, 2021, 02:35:11 amNo, No, No. I haven't bought anything yet. The dealer can not answer anything either about discounts or about when the device is expected to be available. This is Russia.