choice of soldering iron tips for smd - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 04:15:38 pm
content: I have an Ersa soldering station and I would like to start soldering smd components.I would like to purchase some necessary tips, but I am confused.Multi pin smd IC soldering, putting tin on the tip and dragging:in the catalog I have the choice between these three 102-WD series tips recommended for this type of soldering:I am undecided whether to take the 2.3 or 3.5 mm one: maybe even thinking about using it to vacuum tin, or bring back tin on wires, etc. .. Any advice? The 3.5 one allows you to retain more tin in the concave area, but maybe it will be too big to work on the smd IC pins?Soldering of the classic two-pin smd: I have this tip for now, it has a 0.8 and angled tip.In your opinion is it too big a measure to weld classic smd? (there is also with a 0.4 and 0.6 mm tip)In the catalog there are also those with straight points, which even start from 0.1 mm up to 1mmThis for example is the 0.4mmAny advice so I can make myself a gift?thanks

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 05:51:41 pm
content: It is very individual. From all presented here, I'd start with 0102WDLF16 or 23.Tip that I currently use for 99% of the work is Pace 1130-0035-P1. It is also a miniwave tip with 2.11mm tip. And sometimes I wish they had a smaller version. 1.6 mm would be ideal.The conical ones I don't get at all. I never found them useful for anything. They just don't hold the solder at all and I can't really control the solder flow using them.

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 05:57:21 pm
content: I think this comes down to preference. I use a 1.3mm wide chisel tip and it is fine for me down to 0402. Also okay for SOIC and TSSOP chips, with enough flux. If you are going to doa lotof drag soldering of QFPs, TSSOP, etc. , I'd consider the "well" style tips...but I don't like them for general use.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 07:53:20 pm
content: thanks ataradov and Tim; now I'm going to work, tomorrow I'll read your advice betterchar

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2021, 01:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 29, 2021, 05:51:41 pmthanks ataradov, as for the tip to drag the weld, then I will stay on the intermediate size 2.3I understand that you prefer the angled tip for this kind of soldering, the intermediate Ersa sizes are 1.5 and 2.0 for angle tipat this point I can evaluate whether to take the AD tip instead of WD if the yield is the same ... (the WD costs a lot)thanks

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2021, 01:40:54 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on January 29, 2021, 05:57:21 pmdrag soldering could happen, I certainly won't do many; I'm starting to think I could help but spend a lot of money on a WD well tip. As for the soldering of the classic smd, I currently have a pencil tip 0.8 and a chisel 1.6; if you even use a 1.3 for a smd 0402, then with the 0.8 I have it could be fine; but since I have to give myself a gift, maybe I'll add something to the two points I havethanks Tim

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 10:26:50 am
content: since when has soldering been refered to as "weld"

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 12:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: m3vuv on January 31, 2021, 10:26:50 amMany languages don't make the soldering / welding distinction that exists in English.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 08:09:10 pm
content: Quote from: richard.cs on January 31, 2021, 12:29:33 pmYes, but it’s weird that OP mixes up both words within the same post, even after seeing reply after reply say only “soldering”.CharlotteSwiss: you mean soldering, NOT welding. In English they are NOT interchangeable. (Soldering is Löten/brasage/brasatura. Welding is Schweissen/soudage/saldatura.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 08:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on January 29, 2021, 04:15:38 pmI have the 0102WDLF23 and like it a LOT. And yes, it’s great for tinning wires, too. Larger spoon tips are too big IMHO.I have a 0.4mm chisel, which is practically like a needle tip, and I never use it.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 10:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: m3vuv on January 31, 2021, 10:26:50 amit's a question of the translator[now I have edited]thanks

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 10:56:03 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on January 31, 2021, 10:51:16 pmNot in English. Welding and soldering are different things.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 10:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 31, 2021, 08:16:29 pmyes I think the WD23 size is quite adequate, so I could also use it for other jobs and not just for dragging.So far I have only soldered smd 0603 (with the SD 0.8 tip, the smallest I have)But I was thinking that a 0402 should happen, the ideal I think would be a tip around 0.5 I guessthanks

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 11:01:57 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 31, 2021, 10:56:03 pmthe fact is that I have always called welding both brazing and electrode welding

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 11:04:59 pm
content: "Not in English" is a very strong statement. I'm sure most of the languages have this distinction.I noticed Chinese probably does not, since I often see "welding" as a description for soldering in eBay listings.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 11:09:27 pm
content: yes however in fact I had written both soldering and welding...my fault ..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 11:16:53 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on January 31, 2021, 11:01:57 pmWell, tradition doesn't make it correct!English actually distinguishes between soldering, brazing, and welding, and they're not interchangeable. (Brazing and soldering are closely related, differing just in temperature ranges, but welding is fundamentally different.) The thing we do with a hot metal stick in electronics is soldering.Welding: melting the base metal to join it, sometimes adding more of thesamemetal.Brazing and soldering: melting adifferent, lower temperature metal to join adifferentbase metal which is not melted. Soldering is low temperature, brazing is high temperature.Quote from: ataradov on January 31, 2021, 11:04:59 pm"Not in English" makes no claims whatsoever about any other languages. Don't read something that isn't there!

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2021, 11:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 31, 2021, 11:16:53 pmthanks for the explanation

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 12:50:50 am
content: I just use a normal through hole tip.I have used it on 0.55mm SMD IC's with 100 pins and it worked fine.I found the right solder to be more important.A low melting point solder that flows well.I bought some cheap Chinese stuff and it just left big blobs and barely melted.Bridges are easy to remove, just remove all solder from tip then drag away from the pin to remove the bridge.I got quite a bit of experience making USB scopes with SMD A2D and processors on 0.55mm scale.

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 12:51:06 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 31, 2021, 11:04:59 pmIn Spanish the substantive "soldadura" is both for welding and soldering. You add by torch, by arc, acetylene, and with "estaño" if you mean soldering

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 01:07:58 am
content: The most common mistake made when selecting a tip, especially so for SMD, is making the assumption the tip must be small. This may help when soldering very small components, for example 0402 devices but the smaller the tip, the more difficulty you’ll have when attempting to drag solder IC leads. For that task, my go tip is a basic 2-3 mm chisel to hold the solder.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 09:04:17 am
content: Quote from: WattsThat on February 01, 2021, 01:07:58 am100% agree with this entire statement.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 10:15:39 am
content: Quote from: nigelwright7557 on February 01, 2021, 12:50:50 amthanks nigel, yes of course more than the tip counts the experience, without a doubt. The bridges I tried in the field, in fact it doesn't take long to remove them, even using the braid. I use good quality wire (although I would have liked to avoid using lead ...)

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 10:20:06 am
content: Quote from: WattsThat on February 01, 2021, 01:07:58 amattention Watts, I have clearly divided the choice of the tip into two types of soldering: drag soldering (tip about 2 mm) and soldering of the single smd pin (0603 or 0402); the small tip I would use only that solder small two pin smdthanks

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:48:21 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 01, 2021, 10:20:06 amYep, but even for that, don't go too small. Really thin tips have terrible thermal characteristics, and end up just being a PITA to work with.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 10:10:08 pm
content: I'm not very good with smd ...I thought we needed a tip no larger than the pitch; but maybe you could use the 1.6 chisel .. using only the corner; I have to experiment

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 10:28:37 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 01, 2021, 10:10:08 pmWith THT that was the general rule. With SMD, not so much. As long as you're not touching adjacent pads, it's OK to use a tip wider than the pad. (And honestly, it's often easier to just use hot air with them.) And use flux. It's much more important for SMD, IMHO.Don't be afraid of SMD, it's not as hard as it seems! I suggest getting some practice boards to learn with. If you need something to practice on, I might be able to send you something from work, we have tons of (unpopulated) scrap boards and practice components.Edit: I'll add that IMHO, for small SMD stuff, the quality of your tweezers becomes really important! With a tiny chip component, I'd rather use an oversize tip and good tweezers than the optimal tip and crappy tweezers!

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 11:43:02 pm
content: for that I said that you need a fairly small tip, however with the 0.8 I have I should be fine ..I have already done various tests with smd 0603 (my father retrieves faulty boards), soldering is not difficult (use of the flux though).Tweezers I have one of those sets taken on Amazon of different sizes / shapes, they are also ESD (they are not the best on the market, but...)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 09:20:39 am
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 01, 2021, 11:43:02 pmLike others have said don't go too small tip for SMD. Using the corner of the tip works just fine however the PCB layout component density does determine how big tip you can use.As today most commercial PCB designs give zero forethought to rework as the PCB's are reflow soldered so there will be times some components must be removed to allow access to the component you need to work on.When PCB designers have to do rework on their own designs they might learn not to make high density designs that are close to impossible to work on !That's why I got a rework station with hot air.........

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 11:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 02, 2021, 09:20:39 amI also have the hot air station; but to solder smd, you need to use solder paste

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 01:50:14 am
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 02, 2021, 11:31:49 pmWell break down SMD work to new or rework and for rework especially hot air is real handy for device removal but sure if you haven't got fresh paste and/or lots of flux you're better off soldering with an iron.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 06:32:53 am
content: hi,I vote for LF16.I used too small tips when I was young and stupid, realised some bigger ones are better. small ones are really specific, maybe for 0402 or so.I worked from metcal downside and I had 4 years prototyping and pcb 'remastering' dutis at job, I really like soldering, for me is the coolest thing in electronics beside making work some pcbanyway, that's my preference, yours may be differentbon courage for soldering smd's!!

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 11:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on February 03, 2021, 01:50:14 amoh yes, I got the hot air station to unsolder (and reflow too)

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: perieanuo on February 03, 2021, 06:32:53 amfor smd 0603 I have already successfully used tip 08; I also tried the 1.6, ok you can (but maybe it heats too much surface)The small tip, as I said, I would take for 0402.I ventured into smd soldering, no limits in my head...

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:34:49 pm
content: I took the tip Ersa 102WDLF23, ok original Ersa; but shouldn't it be concave underneath?I don't know if you can see it from the photo, but in practice the tip is flat ..it's normal?if anyone has a 102 wd tip ersa could check?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 03:51:23 pm
content: Heat the tip and wipe it off. It’s tinned...

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 04:06:33 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 02, 2021, 11:31:49 pmActually, no. Paste, if not applied with a proper stencil, can prove an interesting challenge. It can be much, much easier to just tin the pads with an iron and ample flux, then place the component onto the pads (in a bed of flux) and then heat it with hot air until it reflows. If you want to solder e.g. QFN parts, but also for simple things like resistors, that can be the method of choice. If you apply paste e.g. with a syringe, it will always be too much.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 04:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: thinkfat on February 12, 2021, 04:06:33 pmthanks thinkfat, yes I have already experimented this technique, I also reported it in a previous message; can be a solution, although I'd rather use drag and drop...

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 04:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 12, 2021, 03:51:23 pmpoor me, so could this be normal cuz it's new? So by heating and cleaning the tip, will the concave part be highlighted?Monday or Tuesday when it will be operational, I trythank you tooki

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2021, 01:42:02 pm
content: I do quite a lot of smd IC soldering.I use quite a large tip.I put plenty of solder on the tip and drag it along the pins.I usually drag each side twice to be sure all pins are soldered.Once soldered I remove all solder from iron.I then move iron from pin to away from pin to remove any shorts.Any stubborn shorts can be removed using copper braid then re-soldered.Done hundreds this way.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 12:39:46 am
content: I did some tests with the concave tip, if there is good flux, by dragging the pins are soldered well; to remove the bridges I did some tests with both the tip and the 1mm braidit could be better, but even worse

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 01:34:19 am
content: First off you can weld with a soldering iron, just touch a grounded tip to a live high power line.As for tips I have to agree with others this is a personal thing. What is best for you will come with practice and frankly no one tip fits every need. Personally I use a chisel tip for a lot of soldering and the sad reality is I got good with such a tip as that is often all I had. If making a choice to outfit a soldering station at least one tip/iron would be a chisel tip of some sort. The second would be a somewhat stubby or blunt pencil point ( a pencil point that isn't extremely long and thin). The third would be something optimized for drag soldering if I got use to it. Someplace in there would be an iron/tip optimized to put out more heat.The thing here is that even SMD's come in a variety of packages, and some times they require more soldering capability than the traditional equipment used on fine pin SMD's. These could be heavy pins or tabs that don't respond well to low wattage irons. That doesn't even include the other SMD mounted stuff, such as board interconnects, wiring headers and so forth that require a bit more heat than an SMD logic chip. This is where Soldering Irons are a lot like DMM's, it is very easy to need more than one for a variety of soldering jobs.This probably sounds like I'm having fun spending your money, and you would be right - it is fun. However I believe everything I've posted is accurate. The big point is personal preference gained from lots of experience. The second point is that it is highly unlikely that you will get by with just one iron. I can assure you that using the wrong iron/tip is something we have all done to finish off a project. However it is less than ideal and sometimes just doesn't work. I'd start off with a smallish chisel tip though.DaveQuote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 01, 2021, 10:20:06 am

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 01:51:02 am
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 pmTips could easily be a long and interesting discussion. One thing to realize is that short stubby tips transfer heat much better than the long needle type tips. Part of the trick in soldering is getting that heat to the pins and traces quickly, especially when drag soldering. The solder reservoirs on SMT tips helps some here too as the molten metal increases the area for heat transfer. This is why trying to use the needle like pencil point chips is so frustrating on multi lead SMD, there is little heat transfer area, hi resistance to thermal flow, and no place for a respectable amount of solder to hang around.Now all of that doesn't mean you will not need a needle like pencil point iron from time to time. Some times you have only one lead to work on and very little room to maneuver.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 02:08:41 am
content: I have a thermaltronics tmt-9000s with 25 different tips (special deal at the time) and my favorite tip out of all of them is this one below. It's a 4.5mm knife tip.So good at so many things.You have a point at the end for doing small SMT down to like 0604, maybe smallerYou have a large side area for doing big stuff and tinning wires and spanning between TH pads for desoldering.It's huge so has a lot of thermal mass. Trying to solder SMT stuff with a super tiny tip can be annoying due to almost no thermal mass. It's a common mistake to think you need a tiny tip to solder SMT stuffI think I have like 20 tip packets that have never been opened because I vary rarely need anything other than that knife tip.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 10:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 05, 2021, 01:34:19 amthanks dave for the exhaustive answer: actually I already had some tips, I just took other tips including the one for dragging.I now have 3 chisel tips (1.6 - 3.2 and 5)A 0.5 pencil tipAn angled 0.8One to dragI can have fun now, the one I use less is the 5mm one, but on the other hand I use it my father, but he is more of an electrician

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 10:36:52 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 05, 2021, 01:51:02 amin fact the pencil tip has little surface to transmit heat: but if it is tinned it improves the passage of heat

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 10:42:22 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on March 05, 2021, 02:08:41 amit seems to me an interesting reasoning; I don't have knife tip, but in fact it could be good for many things

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 11:37:15 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 31, 2021, 10:56:03 pmWell I don't think it really matters in this case, we know what is being talked about by the context, I can give a pass to people who are not native English speakers, the language has enough quirks that even native speakers stumble at times.Anyway tips, I typically use the same ~3mm chisel tip that I use for almost everything. Occasionally I'll switch to a smaller one if I'm working in tight quarters but usually I'm too lazy/don't feel like risking dropping the hot tip and melting the floor/desk/my crotch so I just make due with whatever is already in the iron.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:19:39 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 29, 2021, 05:51:41 pmYou use them to heat the target, which you then melt the solder directly on to. (For example, header pins sticking up through a PCB: heat the pin+pad from the back with the cone, and apply solder to the front, melting it down into the hole and getting the correct fillet on both sides).A small cone tip is also good for soldering SMD components e.g. 0603, 0402 etc., where you only want a minimal amount of solder involved. The small cone is perfect for heating pin+pad simultaneously in a small spot.I have a cone on one of the stations permanently.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 09:32:16 am
content: I did not understand the procedure of these two examples of soldering: but by cone tip we mean the tip with the concave part?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 09:55:00 am
content: No. A cone* is like a pencil. IMHO the most useless soldering iron tip shape.*normally referred to as a conical or pencil tip. Just calling it “cone” is nonstandard.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 10:04:01 am
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:19:39 amSoooooo... the way one uses ALL standard tip shapes, other than with drag soldering? I mean, you literally just described standard THT soldering. Nothing about that is specific to conical tips, and conical tips aren’t even the best for it. A chisel tip will provide better thermal transfer to both pad and pin.Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:19:39 amThey make tiny chisel tips for that, although they admittedly begin to look just like a fine pencil tip when small enough. Big tips are actually really good for leaving just small amounts of solder on the joint: surface tension makes it want to stick to the hot tip, not the joint.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:42:46 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on March 06, 2021, 09:32:16 amI should have called it a conical or pencil tip, instead to slanging it to "cone". You get the most precise control of where the heat is applied with this type of tip, which is what is needed for hand soldering the smallest parts (0603 and smaller).For example, soldering wires to a 0.5mm BGA is good practice for those that don't understand what a pencil tip does:

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:58:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 06, 2021, 10:04:01 amI was trying to say that that the tip doesn't actually have to "hold" any solder to solder stuff - it just has to contact and heat the target. Basically the same small pencil tip can be used for soldering everything from 0.5mm BGA balls to header pins. Can any other tip do that? - No, because for the small stuff, every shape converges to the same thing, as you said further on.The pencil tip has a really big "dynamic range" for the jobs it can do, so I use it 95% of the time to avoid having to change tips. When I assemble stuff, I hand solder everything that doesn't need hot air. I have two stations running, one with the fine pencil tip and one with a 3.5mm chisel tip in case anything puts up a fight!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:23:11 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:42:46 pmOh cooome on, dude…The OP of this thread clearly isn't even distantly experienced enough to be trying to dead-bug a BGA. And moreover, YOU just said how they're great for THT soldering!Nor is a microscopic tip remotely necessary for something as large as an 0603.Where tiny tips become necessary isn't because of the size of the joint you need to solder, but because of the close proximity of neighboring joints that you need to not disturb.And if you do, there are other tiny shapes, too. (Like my 0.4x0.2mm chisel.)Finally, not all conical tips are tiny. Lots of soldering irons ship with a non-tiny conical tip as standard, typically something around 1mm. (My guess is that they're cheaper to manufacture than chisel tips.)Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:58:44 pmThe circular shape means a conical tip literallycannothave any significant contact area with the workpiece. At best, an infinitesimally thin line, at worst, a single infinitesimally tiny dot. In practice, these tips relyentirelyon the thermal bridge of the solder on the tip to transfer heat to the workpiece. Chisels, bevels, etc. take advantage of that too, but also allow for direct heat transfer through larger direct contact areas. Istillhave yet to encounter a joint where I've thought "yeah, you know what, a conical tip would do thisbetterthan anything else".Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:58:44 pmYou realize this is the first time you've actually brought up this characteristic, which is perhaps the single argument in favor of conical tips? Nearly everything else you've claimed is either not specific to conical tips, or is outright wrong.Quote from: SilverSolder on March 06, 2021, 02:58:44 pmIs changing tips that burdensome? On modern cartridge-style irons (like the JBC I have at work) changing tips takes no tools and only takes seconds (with your hands nowhere near the hot tip), and on the Ersa this thread is about (which is what I use at home), it takes only slightly longer, namely the time to unscrew one tip and screw on the other. It's not as though one constantly changes tips back and forth during a job, since you just do all the joints of one kind at a time, then switch tips and do all the joints of the next kind, etc.Using a tip optimized for the job at hand makes the joints take less time, which saves time and is gentler on the workpiece. As such, I don't actually consider universality to be a particularly compelling argument. (In general, I prefer elegant, optimized tools over universal tools, which require fewer tools, but rarely perform quite as well as the dedicated ones.)

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:04:22 pm
content: On the point about poor contact between the conical shape and the target (header pin example): note in the picture how clean the tip is, and how it is wetted with solder. That thin "jacket" is enough to flow and make initial contact with the fluxed target. As the target heats, you add solder (thin wire) to the target, which also contacts the tip of the iron which gets immersed.I guess this is easier to see in a video - maybe we can revisit this with some footage next time we assemble something? I'd love to see how others do it, I'm sure there is more than one way that leads to excellent results.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 11:41:05 pm
content: I know what you're talking about. (I've seen some videos somewhere that show it well.) And while it's true that it will work with a conical, I just don't see any situation where a different tip geometry won't do the job better or easier, at least for anything larger than the dead-bug BGA.

author: Mp3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:39:08 am
content: I use knife tips unless the work is too dense to realistically use the knife tip, then i switch to a very very small chisel.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:42:35 am
content: Here's an interesting video that shows how different solders behave - useful for beginners to know, just as important as choosing a tip you like - and the video also shows how to use a conical / pencil / small slanted chisel, all behave similarly in this situation.Skip ahead to 5:26 to get to the action!

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 12:46:22 pm
content: Personally, I like a bevel tip for most (if not all) soldering jobs. I have two sizes, one that stores a good amount of heat (2.4mm), and another smaller one for working in smaller areas where I don't want to disturb surrounding components.With both tips, the more flux I use the better the result (to a point).You don't need to worry about your tip being larger than the pitch on your component, if you get bridging use more flux, wipe your tip clean, run it over again, rinse repeat until all the bridging is gone.With some good tweezers and flux, I can easily solder 0603 components, or at a stretch 0402, with a 4mm bevel tip. Obviously I am using magnification. I can also use the same tip for larger soldering. With appropriate technique, tip swapping is not a common thing.I have given up on using paste, stencil and SMD oven because for smaller QFN chips (for example an LM60440) it is hard to get them to solder on without either having dry joints or under-chip bridging (or both). I now prefer to apply solder to the pads and use a heat gun to apply the chip. I can check for a good wiggle and apply a little pressure to ensure soldering, also visually make sure the amount of solder is even and correct before chip placement.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 02:54:42 pm
content: Do you prefer a slanted / 45 degree chisel, or do you use a straight "screwdriver" type?

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 04:32:07 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 08, 2021, 02:54:42 pmThe 45 degree slanted one, where you get a cone tip then slice off the end to form a flat area.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 04:45:58 pm
content: Quote from: Microdoser on March 08, 2021, 04:32:07 pmThat is a bevel tip, not a chisel.Admittedly, some vendors refer to bevel tips as chisels, but that’s a decidedly minority usage. (And a few call them “flat” tips.)

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 05:27:16 pm
content: Quote from: Microdoser on March 08, 2021, 04:32:07 pmWhich is known as a Hoof style tip and available in a few sizes.Good in that they have a fine edge for small work and the large flat footprint provides good thermal transfer into large pads. Favored by many along with the chisel/screwdriver tip.For versatility on SMD PCB's the K/knife style Psi posted a few days back is hard to beat especially for SMD rework.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 09:36:26 pm
content: I have corrected my initial comment, it seems I actually mean a bevel tip and upon checking, I mainly use a 4mm tip

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 10:29:01 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 08, 2021, 05:27:16 pmHoof is not the same, hoof has a concave face to hold onto solder for drag soldering.(Again, with the caveat that manufacturers aren’t consistent in terminology.)

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 01:26:07 pm
content: Research in the automotive industry shows that the vast majority of drivers have a favourite brake pedal pressure that they use when they slow down - they modulate only how long they apply it for. Only if surprised or in outright emergencies do drivers use a different level of pedal force than their "favourite level".Wonder if the same thing applies to soldering... people have a favourite tip and temperature setting, and modulate the application of it? - if that is true, we would expect people to have only one or two truly favourite tips, while the rest of their collection rarely gets used... ?

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 03:16:46 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 09, 2021, 01:26:07 pmVery likely. In the past I have bought a set of all kinds of tip, but I found myself just using 1 or 2.IMO Someone with reasonable skill in soldering can use almost any iron/tip/station and obtain, if not perfect, at least reasonable results. The only thing that may change is the set temperature and how quickly the job can be done, also ergonomics. That said, the right kit will allow you to work with far fewer frustrations.These days, I use my hot air station to solder SMD components and use the iron to apply solder beforehand. I use the iron on its own mainly for through hole components and for removing bridges on SMD chips or drag soldering marginally connected SMD chips.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 04:04:50 pm
content: Quote from: Microdoser on March 09, 2021, 03:16:46 pmWould you do that with tiny SMD passives (resistors and caps) or is this ICs we are talking about?

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 05:52:08 pm
content: That technique works with both

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 05:55:18 pm
content: Quote from: thinkfat on March 09, 2021, 05:52:08 pmFor the small passives, I find it hard to stop components blowing away, no matter how low I set the flow on the air... - Do you hold the component with tweezers or something?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 07:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 09, 2021, 10:29:01 amThis may come as a surprise but there are 2 styles of hoof tip, those with a concave end and those without.Eg, Hakko BCM/CM and BC/CThe first 2 styles on this page:https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t20_standard.html#type_bcm_cm

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 08:10:33 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 09, 2021, 07:30:48 pmWhat an awesome site - goes through every tip type and style, with example use cases for each - well worth a look!About the pencil/conical tip:"All-round type which can be used from any direction and is easy to hold at any position.Possible to solder any surface from small to large."Which is how it ended up as my favourite!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 08:34:32 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 09, 2021, 08:10:33 pmErr well yes, it is the Hakko site.I mainly use 2.4 or 3.2mm style D and have no trouble with 0805 and SOT23 or SOIC devices although for rework as Psi pointed out style K tips are hard to beat.If you look at the more common 900M series there are a pile more tip selections available:https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html#type_bcm_cm

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 08:53:23 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 09, 2021, 08:34:32 pmSure, but not every manufacturer's site is this good, complete with videos on how to use each tip... pretty thorough!I did spend some time on the 900M series and learned quite a bit - thanks for linking!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 09:25:57 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 09, 2021, 07:30:48 pmUmmm... BCM/CM is hoof, BC/C is bevel. (Obviously I’m aware of the existence of both types since I’ve already mentioned both types in this thread.)

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2021, 11:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 09, 2021, 05:55:18 pmFor very small passives either I use flux as glue and a very low airflow, or I hold the part in tweezers and once it has wetted with the solder it doesn't go anywhere.If you do a fair amount of pre-warming from a distance then move in once the solder has melted, the majority of the time the part stays where it is.

author: bobbydazzler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2021, 03:46:30 am
content: I seem to prefer a knife/wedge tip. I'm just a hobbyist mainly soldering to 2 sided bread board pcb's and the wedge tip transfers heat into the joint almost as well as the chisel tip and is also easy to use to make solder bridges between pads, the chisel tip seems to suck the solder away from the solder bridge when I remove the iron. Other than that I don't find the other types of tips too bad, I like the bevel tip too and I'm not too worried about using the 1mm cone tip once I've worn out the other tips.

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 10:38:03 am
content: thanks for all the contributions guys; now I have more confused ideas than beforeCome on, I'm joking.I see that many people despise thin pencil tips, but if they are produced there will be a reason, don't you think?If I wish to heat ONLY a small spot, a pencil tip will be the preferred tip; I see that many use the tips cut at 45 °, interesting, but I think I can get the same results even with a flat chisel tip, of course you need to tilt more!Looking at that video of welding (about 6 minutes), he saw that the heating phase is almost zero, I generally heat a little more, and in the end I stay with the tip 1 second more, it helps to not have cold welds and to obtain a nice final weld cone.But as my father says,I am a woman, it is already an excellent result to hold a soldering iron ...

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 01:16:22 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on March 13, 2021, 10:38:03 amI taught my girlfriend to weld steel (using a MIG welder) back in the day, she was better at it than most of the guys at the car club I was a member of at the time!

author: CharlotteSwiss
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 02:28:28 pm
content: think that when there is an electrode to be welded at home, I do it and not my father (who taught me); they are better at me

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 05:36:29 pm
content: Quote from: CharlotteSwiss on March 13, 2021, 10:38:03 amIt is mostly down to personal preferences, there is no really strong right or wrong answer. I my case, I feel it gives me the best control and most accurate application, and I never feel I struggle to get it to do what I need it to do.It is probably best to experiment yourself and see what you like the best, out of the types that you see experienced people here are fond of, and keep practicing!

author: nigelwright7557
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2021, 08:34:11 pm
content: I use a large tip and drag solder tqfp's.Plenty of flux.If I get a short either drag it away with clean tip or use copper braid if stubborn.