Test electrical outlets  and  circuit breaker - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: GGMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 05:30:14 pm
content: Hello,I wanted to know if anyone has used this type of device to test their electrical installation.https://www.distrimesure.com/fr/217-testeurs-et-controleurs-de-disjoncteurs-differentielsIndeed, I accidentally failed a plug without ground, and I wonder if my differential breaker still works well.It is necessary to know that in France the counters are changed and I wonder if phase and neutral would not have been reversed.Some says it's the same with connexions inverted?I say this because I made a mistake by 2 times connecting my multimeter which was actually in ohmmeter position between ground and phase. A beautiful spark, but no disjunction.I wonder if we can cause the disjunction by connecting a resistance between phase and ground. But what is the rule of calculation for this one for 30ma for example. I think that these small devices do only that in circuit breaker test. (?)Good after for 30 euros, it can always be used.Your opinions.cdt

author: indeterminate
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2024, 10:30:50 pm
content: YesIt is a bit difficult to follow the translation.a device like the VT35 is fine for a hobbyist/home owner to do a quick testi have a device like the K6010B witch is what the professionals yous to do there testing.

author: GGMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 01:06:58 pm
content: hello intederminate,Thank you for your replyYes, I can get a VT35 for 10€ on an ad site.This seems to be sufficient for my tests.This will be much better than having fun testing with a resistance between phase and ground to test the circuit breaker, and without risk of taking an electrocution. LOLcdt

author: Jimmy Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 02:03:05 pm
content: Hi.Just to clarify, in English, the 'differential' which you refer to is known as a 'Residual Current Device' (RCD).They function by comparing the current flow between the phase line and Neutral. Whenever there is deviation in current flow which passes the RCD's rating (i.e. 30mA), then the device will trip and make an open circuit.I've never seen an RCD installed in reverse however condidering that the device is only measuring Line + Neutral, and no Earth, then I suppose it will still function fine.When you measure between the RCD and Earth, then you will redirect some of the current from one line of the RCD and it will trip if it passes 30mA.The RCD will not be damaged in such conditions.Hope this helps

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 02:36:33 pm
content: Quote from: GGMM on September 28, 2024, 05:30:14 pmI also can't quite figure out everything you're saying in the original post.But basically, to test an RCD, yes, you just use a resistor between line and ground. In fact, that is precisely what the test button on the RCD itself does! So you really don't need an external tester to do basic testing of the RCD. Just press the test button and see if it breaks the circuit.The formula is just Ohm's law: I = V/R. Or more usefully here, R = V/I.230V/30mA = 7. 667 kΩSo you'd choose the next-lowest standard resistor value, so 7.5 kΩ.As a proof, 230V/7.5 kΩ = 30.67 mAPerfect!If you wanted to characterize the RCD a bit better, you might use a few values to make sure it's sensitive enough but not more sensitive than it is supposed to be.What the better testers do that you cannot do easily is testing how fast it reacts.A very simple tester like that VT35 doesn't tell you much more than the built-in test button.Quote from: Jimmy Electron on September 29, 2024, 02:03:05 pmJust to be clearer, it's not a "deviation" in total current passing through the RCD (the total current can rise and fall how it wants) that trips it, it's the size of anyimbalancein current between the line and neutral.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 02:46:47 pm
content: QuoteIf you mean reverse polarity then yes they will work regardless,however if you mean getting the input and output swapped then it all depends on the device.As for socket testers im waiting to test drive the new megger MPCC230,it sits between the basic plug in testers and a full multi function tester,Certainly looks like it could be a useful bit of kit.

author: robert.rozee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:41:35 pm
content: Quote from: GGMM on September 28, 2024, 05:30:14 pmplease do NOT do this to your multimeter againcheers,rob :-)

author: Jimmy Electron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 03:58:22 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 29, 2024, 02:36:33 pmPerhaps it could have been worded clearer however the RCD works when the same current (within it's rating) flows in the Line and Neutral conductors. If more than the devices rated trip current, on either leg, goes to Earth, then that current has 'deviated' from it's intended path.

author: GGMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 04:16:55 pm
content: re,Thanks for your answers.In fact I just watched the installation on the electrical board.We will consider that it is an old board because the house dates from 1987 and maybe the NF C15-100 standard did not exist?Indeed I see that the board is made only of fuses (well I knew it), and that the only circuit breaker is an EDF circuit breaker at the head of line of 500MA. !!! It's DANGEROUS!!There is no 30MA circuit breaker on the electrical board!It’s so cold to know that I’ve been living like this ever since!Tomorrow I think to contact an electrician for a quotation to install at least a differential 30MA and can be replace fuses with switches.Short re-over / change the electrical board.cdt

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 05:17:40 pm
content: QuoteIts not only a fault to earth that will trip,its any imbalance,like using the neutral from a different circuit.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 05:29:41 pm
content: The easiest English word to use here is "difference", where the current flowing in one conductor minus the current flowing in the other conductor should show a difference of zero (or damn close), paying attention to the polarity of the transformer or other sensor.

author: GGMM
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 06:45:55 pm
content: re,I understand that the circuit breaker will act on a difference of current.But in my case, I am protected on this old installation only by a circuit breaker of 500MA, since there is no circuit breaker 30MA.So I have to change the installation.here an example the effect of current intensity on the human bodycdt

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 08:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: GGMM on September 29, 2024, 06:45:55 pmIn English, the term "circuit breaker" means specificallyand exclusivelyan overcurrent protection device. An RCD is not considered a circuit breaker (though devices exist that combine both functions).French wikisays:QuoteThus:disjoncteur=disjoncteur électro-magnétique= circuit breakerdifferentiel=disjoncteur différentiel=dispositif différentiel à courant résiduel (DDR)= RCD (also known as GFCI in North America)Also, mA is not the same as MA. mA = milliamp (1/1000th of an amp), MA = megaamp (1 million amps).I'll assume you actually mean milliamps.So are you saying that right now, the circuit is protected by a 500mA RCD? That certainly, um, isn't for protecting human life!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 09:12:59 pm
content: It doesn't matter if you use "m" or "M", so long as you are sincere.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 09:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 29, 2024, 09:12:59 pmIn which case I'd beextremelyconcerned about a home breaker panel equipped with a 500,000,000 amp RCD!

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2024, 09:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 29, 2024, 09:25:29 pmIt won't fail.