The discerning audiophile's choice of proper speaker wire. ($35,000 for 2.5m) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 08:43:09 pm
content: I'm pleased to present the highest quality cable available to discerning electronics aficionados like yourselves.I present to you, Masterbuilt Audio.Discerning audiophile journalists at The Absolute Sound wrote a gem of an article linked below. I submit an excerpt:Quotehttp://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/masterbuilt-audio-reference-cables/QuoteQuoteThey're also happy to sell you IEC power cable for $17,000.Pay attention to the amperage rating and gauge thickness.QuoteThe article about this cable dives off the deep end.QuoteAudiophoolery taken to the next dimension over THAT song?!!!

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:31:21 am
content: “Conductor Material: U.S. laboratory grade precious metal alloys, proprietary formulation”Meaning; 1% Copper, 99% Bullshit

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:34:16 am
content: That's... hilarious!

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:36:02 am
content: Where's the gold?QuoteFor that price I wouldn't want copper.You might as well just buy a lot of gold blocks and do it yourself.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:42:33 am
content: For a while now I've felt unscrupulous people are trying to one-up each other and see how far they can push it before even the most fanatic audiophile gives up. That being said, you don't need to sell many of these cables to make the whole endeavour worthwhile. That probably explains why so many try to push these kinds of products.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:53:44 am
content: The website is only a year old on Wix.com.Charge a lot of money for the cables, talk about the aerospace program and put it up on Wix.com.They don't talk about any gold.QuoteThey have been making speakers for years:https://web.archive.org/web/*/VonSchweikErt.com

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 12:56:40 am
content: Mehh. Cheap stuff. I'm holding out for zero resistance superconductor cables.

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 01:57:13 am
content: And yet the numpty audiofools who buy this are probably using one of those $20,000 single-ended triode amps with 10% distortion at 5 Watts, fed by a phono cartridge with 2% distortion and no anti-skate correction.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 02:01:05 am
content: And play hip-hop music with them.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 02:51:55 am
content: Here's a joke; A cable terminology designed to size up the audiofools in bed and swallow their savings whole.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:01:35 am
content: NASA doesn't have anything like that. They don't waste money.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:17:51 am
content: Quote from: cdev on November 14, 2018, 03:01:35 amI'm pretty sure NASA has moderately reasonably built cables in their systems, because that's what these appear to be.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:27:32 am
content: "There's a sucker born every minute"

author: JackJones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 04:54:39 am
content: Quote from: rhb on November 14, 2018, 12:56:40 amI'll bet it doesn't take long for someone to start selling cables with a freezer attach to them."Our proprietary cooling technology developed by NASA for their breakroom hotdogs, cools the electrons below the noisy ambient temperatures for that cool and crisp sound!"I can hear the money rolling in.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 05:10:29 am
content: I am always reminded of this video when I read something like Nasa or electron alignment in audio cables and most of it is in there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=1m52sQuoteExcept this time from the contractors.I thought contractors were there to build things cheaply and save money.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 06:22:51 am
content: You can buy actual aerospace qualified wires for 2-3 € per meter...

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 06:47:48 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on November 14, 2018, 12:31:21 amI agree with you on this.I admit I was stumped by his claim, after all since when is copper coated aluminium proprietary ?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 08:33:57 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on November 14, 2018, 03:27:32 amIt appears Audiophools are on a mission to beat that timeI did some quick math and it may be cheaper for an Audiophool to book their favorite artists to perform live in their lounge room, say once a monthand just use standard kettle cords and figure eight speaker cable,hidden under the carpet > strictly for 'aesthetic reasons' and so people and pets don't trip up on them(and roll with that line every time religiously)

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 09:05:55 am
content: Just use 2 core HO7 flex as speaker cable. Readily available in 1.5, 2.5, 4.0 and 6mm diameters.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 09:09:37 am
content: The mains cable, is it even legal to sell?Surely the earth conductor should be able to carry the full current from any short and as the live and neutral are 10AWG, it should therefore be at least that size too instead of 12AWG?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 09:18:58 am
content: Oh, and if we are going to work out the most expensive wire, then may I present:https://highend-electronics.com/products/audio-magic-ultimate-beeswax-shd-fuse?variant=2513608638493$225 for 20mm of wire.So, 2.5M of it would be a bargain at only $28,125 but that fails to account for bi-wiring which takes us to $56,250.And then we need to think about multi-strand, so, let's assume a paltry 36 strands per cable:36 x $28125 = $1,012,500Oh, but there's two of them, a snip at $2,025,000.Per speaker.$4,050,000

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 03:58:08 pm
content: Does it qualify for free shipping?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 07:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on November 14, 2018, 03:58:08 pmI doubt that. If the company does things right, they should ship those cables in wooden boxes made out of precious woods. That can't be free!

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 08:06:17 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 14, 2018, 07:31:28 pmEven better, they could offer a carrying case for these cables that are lined with the hides of critically endangered animals that have been harvested, uh.. unsustainably!

author: Johnny10
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 11:30:00 pm
content: I am buying a Tesla and driving my signals across the living room.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 08:27:26 am
content: Quote from: Johnny10 on November 14, 2018, 11:30:00 pmGreat planJust kit it out with the latest weaponry in case of another Audiophool Zombie Apocalypse

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 10:19:20 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 14, 2018, 09:18:58 amWhatTheFuck?!?!?!Last time I actually had a hifi setup, my speaker cables were snipped off a drum of three core mains cable with the earth snipped off. Sounded great! Then again I don't have Ferengi ears.Edit: I'm going to make a web site and try and sell some magic shit like this. I reckon I can sell dry spaghetti as a cable improvement to someone. Stay tuned.

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 10:49:46 am
content: Having worked in recording studios for a large part of my adult life I have to say the obvious - if the studios that the album was recorded, mixed and mastered in use ordinary industry standard cabling then why not use the same grade cabling when you play the record at home?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 10:53:22 am
content: I have actually asked that to someone who was a not too rich "high end audio" fanatic and he couldn't provide an answer.He was also the sort of person who thought copying CDs had a serious quality degradation like taping a CD does.Then again he was a law student and I was an EE student.

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2018, 03:19:35 pm
content: Seriously, that Absolute Sound article sounds more like MasterBate to me.And then ther's this gem:Quote

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 02:46:48 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 14, 2018, 09:18:58 amOne of the most expensive fuses.I wanted to find out what was in them.I found some discussions about it at Audigoon:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergestic-black-fuse-vs-audio-magic-beeswaxQuoteAre they really hand made?I find that hard to believe.Audio Magics Premier Bees Wax Super Fusehttps://www.audio-magic.com/audio-fuses.htmlQuoteI found this:http://www.audio-horizons.com/index.htmlQuoteObviously Joseph Chow of Audio Horizon was very successful in his campaign of being cited over 900 posts at Audiogoon with his offers.http://www.audio-horizons.com/pages/fuse.htmlQuoteQuoteproprietary informationproprietary liquid anti-vibration materialAnother bullshit excuse.They have even got a 15 day trial and return for Audiogoon membershttps://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-red-fuse/post?highlight=%2BAudio%2BMagic%2BBeesWax&postid=1289322#1289322Quote

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 04:16:45 am
content: Those guys are such pikers. (1) I use 30 conductor ribbon cable with alternate wires in parallel to make a 4 ohm transmission line which lays flat under carpets.(1) Piker - One who does things in a small way.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 04:24:58 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 23, 2018, 02:46:48 amWow. Just wow. I think I lost 40 IQ points just reading that thread (and I don't really have that many to spare in the first place!).

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 04:26:16 am
content: Anyone can make money at this audio fool stuff. Just pick a simple part of the system say like the paint used on the cabinet or the feet or anything at all. Make up any sort of bull sh*t you want about how much your new _______ has better bass tones or use any of the stupid terminology you see them using. Take your money to the bank.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 05:13:55 am
content: Braided loudspeaker cables were popular in the 1980's, I remember it killed many power amplifiers. I think the capacitance is too high, not that Sansui did well back then.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 07:36:47 am
content: Quote from: Synthtech on November 22, 2018, 10:49:46 amYes, and the same question for the vinyl lovers when the recorded source was likely digital. If the source was digital in what way does vinyl reveal something not present in the original digital recording?Brian

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 07:56:00 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on November 23, 2018, 07:36:47 amThat depends entirely on how it was mastered. If it was one of those "compress the crap out of it, master it for CD & Radio and then tweak it to not destroy the master on the lathe", then nothing. If it was more like the Beatles vinyl re-issues, where when the mastering engineer was asked "would you buy the CD or Vinyl", he replied "the vinyl, as that is what it was mixed and mastered for (even the re-masters)".If I want to listen to Jean Michel Jarre I'll take the DDD mastered CD. If I want to listen to anything mastered pre-1983, I'll take the Vinyl rather than the re-compressed, re-eq'd peaky mush pushed out to CD down the track.Horses for courses.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 07:58:49 am
content: I’ll take my over compressed shit over scratchy shit.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 09:34:59 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 14, 2018, 09:18:58 am

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 09:55:01 am
content: Wait a mo though, I reckon the way you fasten the cables to the wall has a bearing on sound quality too. My latest line of enriched uranium clips with antimagnetic titanium nails will cost you only $100,000 a box of three. When fitting, be especially careful to read the instructions on how to identify the vibrational nodes of the cable, and only clip to the wall at those points.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 10:37:04 am
content: I was bored. So who's up for a kickstarter on my new product?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 11:28:57 am
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on November 23, 2018, 09:55:01 amYou've done this before.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 12:31:24 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on November 23, 2018, 07:56:00 amNah, while I agree CDs are often completely different to the original vinyl reproduction that's nothing to do with the format, that's incompetent sound engineers dicking around with and ballsing up the mix to make it sound 'better' on CD when what they should be doing is leaving it the hell alone.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 12:43:12 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 23, 2018, 10:37:04 amWhy not go onto Audiogoon and discuss it there I am sure they'd like it.They can gohip-hop HOORAY!at it.I'll be there watching.I thought of a video I once saw and found it.EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory CardWeeks ago when I discovered Audiogoon and I thought of that video but couldn't find the card discussed there.So I started a thread hoping that they would go crazy over the card but it turned out to be a poor attempt/disappointment as nobody responded.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/has-anybody-tried-the-sony-high-quarity-sound-microsdxc-memory-cardIt is an Audiophile SDXC card and I was surprised that it wasn't already discussed on there.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 01:00:55 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on November 23, 2018, 09:55:01 amExcellent! You have a bright and wealthy future in the industry!

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 01:28:31 pm
content: Look at the boxes they come in:They put the smaller one in the larger box and the larger one in the smaller box.The white foam looks cheap which looks like the most honest things that the package has to offer.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 03:22:46 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on November 23, 2018, 05:13:55 amThat is possible but if the output impedance of the amplifier is not properly controlled, just having the wrong length of speaker wire can cause the same problem. Whether the cable is braided or not should not matter.Typically an output network is required to decouple the low output impedance of the amplifier from the load at high frequencies to prevent destructive oscillation.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 04:51:42 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on November 23, 2018, 03:22:46 pmZobel network I think?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 05:40:31 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 23, 2018, 04:51:42 pmA Zobel network is more for handling the reactance of the loudspeaker itself so it is part of the frequency compensation. High frequency decoupling is provided by a low-Q inductor after the Zobel network.Indeed, without the decoupling inductance, high frequency oscillation in the output stage can destroy the Zobel network.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 06:16:40 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on November 23, 2018, 09:55:01 amTo deliver a sound that literally “blasts you away”, I presume that you are employing weapons grade U235 refined from former USSR stockpiles?

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 07:46:17 pm
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on November 23, 2018, 06:16:40 pmblasts you away.To a point where the sound doesn't sound right according to one Audigoon... no wait it has to be burned in first by which time the other members think he's gone deaf.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 09:00:41 pm
content: I just discovered a way to multiply the value of these speaker cable's price by 10 fold, tie them to this cable burn-in-device for 1 year straight:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/i-wonder-what-effectively-does-this-audiophool-_cable-burn-in-device_/msg1328723/#msg1328723

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2018, 07:36:57 am
content: I could burn them in in no time just use a pat tester or do it manually.It'll be like smoke and mirrors but no magic inside.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2018, 11:11:47 am
content: Owner of three of those fuses here. Don't believe what other people say, the yellow stuff appears to be non-polar. Each fuse gets re-sealed to ensure the volatiles don't get out (it stinks --don't open them, it ruins them!).They definitely work. I spent a bit more money on replacement leads for my unit (tip: gold plating is worth it), but I was lucky enough to get these fuses on special. Price often gets discounted shortly after March, that's the quiet time of the year for them.Since installing them: overshoot has significantly reduced and performance at DC is markedly better than before. Current readings show performance is now much more heavily affected by cable AWG, ie they are giving me notable drop in internal ESR. Can't recommend these fuses enough.I only wish Extech was smart enough to have installed these things in the factory. Would have been happy to pay the premium

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 06:48:36 am
content: When CDs came out, I couldn't unload my vinyl fast enough. From discussions with some other tech types on some of the audio forums, it seems that many of the early transfers were done without added compression and those CDs still are considered among the best representations of the original master tapes. Only situations where they uncovered original multitracks or better copies of the masters have provided a better sounding source for distribution - assuming they resisted the temptation to squash or overdrive the signal during the process.The problems vinyl has are legion: cutting distortion + tracing distortion often exceeding 3-5%; frequency response which steadily deteriorates as linear speed of the groove decreases toward the center; fragile medium with no error correction; linear dependence on absolute and relative accuracy of the disc's motion. I frequently have people tell me that they prefer the sound of an LP to a (properly mastered) CD; my response is "I can't stop you from preferring the multiple defects in the media, but don't tell me it's more accurate."

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 10:39:25 am
content: I did similar. And when I got my first iPod the CDs got ripped and sold.Now it’s apple’s problem for £14.99/month which is far less than my CD bill was!

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 12:34:37 pm
content: Quote from: GregDunn on November 25, 2018, 06:48:36 amI'll take one any day of the week over vinyl but they are not as easy to find as you might expect.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 02:11:34 pm
content: Quote from: GregDunn on November 25, 2018, 06:48:36 amI have heard that early CDs often incorrectly had the RIAA equalization for vinyl records applied.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 04:30:34 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on November 25, 2018, 02:11:34 pmThat would sound dreadful, and would I think be noticed and corrected quickly. A more common problem was that early CD players often used poor analog filtering techniques on the D-to-A converter output. That is why sound quality sometimes was worse than from a good vinyl turntable. Of course in those days all recordings started life as analog tape, and another problem was that CDs of existing music had to be mastered from old magnetic tape that had been in storage for years, whereas the pressings mastered when the tape was new didn't deteriorate significantly in storage.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 05:15:41 pm
content: Wonder if there have ever been any invitational events where audiophools were invited to compare these products in a blinded situation where they could not visually identify which ones were (or were not) being used.In other words, a test to see if they could tell the difference between different kinds of speaker wire. I really doubt if they could, once you got above the really thin stuff.Granted, I think that all other things being equal, thicker wire is better. The minimum size wire I use on my "real" stereo system is slightly bigger than most zip cord. Its maybe 14 or 16 gauge super thick zip cord. (Its also what I use on my bench supplies). And I also have some "monster cable" which I got for free.Its basically just thick flexible copper wire. Its likely around 12 or 14 gauge. (Its hidden behind furniture so its a PITA to fish out)I use these thick cables because my receiver can deliver a solid 100 watts per channel into even as little as a 4 ohm load.I would be willing to bet money that even the most "discerning" "audiophiles" could not tell the difference between something like it and any more expensive cable, no matter how thick or expensive, in a double blind comparison.We all know this. They likely know it too. In private.Dave - you could actually make this into an event. It would promote your brand as well as common sense, substance and sanity in audio technology.Different cables would be compared, they could even bring their own $35,000 cables.the only condition would be inclusion of some generic thick copper wire.We would see if any differences could be discerned by them, the self-styled experts.Or anybody else.In order to give them the maximum benefit of the doubt, the speakers could also be any speakers of their choice.They could bring their own speakers.But, the wires would be hidden. It could be proctored by an impartial jury of engineers.And the event should be videotaped. This event would likely become a huge viral video.

author: IanMacdonald
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 06:39:56 pm
content: Mind you, I was just looking at a roll of 'speaker cable' on offer in a DIY store, and I reckon spider silk would have a greater cross section. This is the opposite end of the problem; people who buy this stuff and put maybe 20 or 50 ohms in series with each speaker, then try the the audiophool stuff at $100 a metre, and report that it's a fantastic product. Because in their case it DOES improve the sound quality. A lot.Of course they could have achieved the same quality improvement with any decent piece of mains flex, but they don't know that.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 07:20:50 pm
content: They would have to buy something like this for their mains cable:https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-reference-power-cord-iec-uk-3-pin-plugEdit:Made in USAThatCEsymbol on the IEC plug looks close enough to be aChina Export.A dead give away really.Another picture that speaks for itself.£4000 to £11000.Specifications:Nordost Valhalla 2, Reference Power Cord IEC - UK 3 Pin PlugLength: Custom LengthInsulation: High purity class 1.1 extruded FEPConstruction: Dual Mono-FilamentConductors: 7 x 16 AWG Solid-coreMaterial: 85 microns of silver extruded over 99.999999% OFCConnectors: Gold-plated IEC Wall plugs: UKPower Rating: 20 AmpDC Resistance: 1.3 Ohms per 1000ftCapacitance: 8.0pF/ftPropagation delay: 91% Speed of lightMight as well just have it made out of gold somewhere

author: Synthtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 07:40:03 pm
content: I want to buy those beeswax filled fuses for my multimeter. That way when I am not paying attention and set the meter to the wrong range and the fuse ruptures and blasts proprietary filling through the meter I won’t mind as everything will smell like honey.And I get the bonus of my meter current range accuracy improving due to the better transfer characteristics of the fuse.

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 08:29:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanMacdonald on November 25, 2018, 06:39:56 pmRecently, I bough 100 m of two core 0,75 mm^2 cable.A problem with it came to my attention after I cut off a decent chunk for a friend and a few days later he complained that the cable is crap and that he can't solder it. I took a piece, tried tinning it and it went well, no issues, so I talked to the guy and asked him what was the problem. After all, he's 72 and has been tinkering with electronics for a good part of his life, so apparently there was a problem. He said that the cable takes solder once, but never again. I asked him to repeat that.So, I take the cable again, tin it (no problem) and try to solder two ends together, but nope, it doesn't work. The cable repels the solder and I was unable to make the joint. I've never seen such behavior before.I tried the flame test, and sure enough, it's copper clad aluminium.I bought it in an electronics store. I asked for 0,75 mm^2 speaker cable, so yeah, if somebody bought that crap expecting copper, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get the result one would expect. Or if they are used to that, a proper quality copper cable could make a difference.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 10:45:03 pm
content: I brought some ten way server cabinets sockets and they came with 400- 700v 49 amp Titanex H07RN-F 3G4 cables on 4 pin BS4343 plug. The adaptors are big and won't look good where it is going and in space wise so I ordered some smaller 1.5mm H07RN-F 13A cables to wire to a plug.When they arrive I will test the conductors under a flame just in case.Maybe I can re brand the Titanex cables and sell it to the audiphools as I believe that is what they're doing.I was looking back at something and just only noticed this post that I missed:Quote from: BradC on November 23, 2018, 04:24:58 amI am sorry.Maybe I should have put a spoiler alert in.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:12:29 pm
content: It is unusual to find very thick, high current cables that are also flexible in the hand and connector-friendly. I would imagine that especially for somebody who does a lot of speaker demoing and switching having the right kind of cable and also the right (quick attach/quick release) ends attached to them is also important.Very thick but flexible wire,Banana plugs or gold plated pins suitable for insertion in amplifiers and speakers, with clear and unmistakable color coding, thats a big enough improvement over plain wire that its worth putting some effort into making up a pair of speaker cables that do it.I would say that a nice pair of top quality speaker cables wired with nice plugs might be worth $20 to me. Significantly more than the parts cost unmodified.So there we have a logical price.How did we go from $20 to $35,000? Thats not just ridiculous, its totally over the top.That much money could do so many much better things.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:14:49 pm
content: Honestly in this day and age we should have the amplifiers in the speakers (active speakers) and differential (at least) or digital signalling. Then you can run it over wet string.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 11:22:49 pm
content: Active speakers can sound really good. Because they can incorporate a feedback loop that corrects a lot of distortion.Plus they are self contained.Mackie makes nice freestanding active speakers. I think one plugs balanced XLR cables into them. They can run off a generator as well.Quote from: bd139 on November 25, 2018, 11:14:49 pm

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 01:42:23 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 14, 2018, 12:36:02 am

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 01:53:57 am
content: Quote from: cdev on November 25, 2018, 11:22:49 pmI still have a pair of these stored somewhere. They did sound very good for their size. For whatever reason (cost probably), the concept never really caught on.https://hifipig.com/philips-motional-feedback-speakers/

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 02:16:52 am
content: They still are very popular with musicians for studios. Look under "Studio Monitor".

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 09:07:06 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on November 23, 2018, 05:40:31 pmAh OK. I've seen them described in various ways but they've not been on my radar enough to thoroughly understand.I've a pile of old audio/linear MOSFETs here which are earmarked for an audio amp 'when I get time' so I'll need some more reading to do I suppose.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 09:19:59 am
content: Also in an average transceiver, the zobel network can be used to absorb all the RF on the speaker wires to stop it getting back into the audio PA. Basically it presents a low impedance to RF. This can make some wild and unexpected noises, particularly with cheap crappy low stability LM386's etc.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 11:50:44 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 26, 2018, 09:19:59 amI almost hate those chips, I fail to understand why they are still so popular when there are so many better alternatives.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 11:57:21 am
content: Monkey see. Monkey copy.

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 04:06:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 22, 2018, 10:53:22 amWe EE can save and improve this planet. It's not a joke, we have a lot of responsability to stop those scammer sharks idiots. That said against stupidity there is no real treatment, yet.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 05:59:24 pm
content: Quote from: zucca on November 26, 2018, 04:06:46 pmIt is a land of milk and honey for the scammers.They are already making beeswax fuses.QuoteThere is some form of treatment depending on how you apply it.1. Subjecting the Audiophools to a hearing test on such frequencies that they claim to hear.2. Getting Dave to tear the cables apart an analyse it but who would be foolish enough to spend all that money on one in the first place to save the sanity of the these Audiophools.3. We could ask the so called scammers if they would like to send their cables in to Dave for a tear down to prove that they are not scammers but I doubt it. They are likely to refuse and stick under their slithery proprietary bullshit excuse just like how the Master Built cable of the first poster of this thread slithers about in the picture.4. Stick it on that Audigoon website and the likes.Here's a joke:Managing to steal them for a teardown wouldn't be a bad idea as they are possibly not worth anything anyway especially when they have the China Export logos showing on them.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 06:20:09 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 26, 2018, 11:50:44 amThere's nothing wrong with cheap and simple amp chips. It's just they are only good for applications with a local/internal speaker. They aren't meant to run with long cables.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 10:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 26, 2018, 09:19:59 amTheBoucherot celldoes work for differential-mode RF picked up by the xover inductors, within one channel.But I find stereo loudspeaker wiring makes an excellent dipole antenna for common-mode RF, between the two (L and R) channels.If you ever scope or RF spectrum analyzer on the loudspeaker outputs, you can see a lot of RF there, more so with MOSFET output stages.This is the only science I have, as far as audible changes occurring with different audio cables and wiring.I observe say AM radio station 680kHz with one set of cables, and another set of cables shifts tuning to between local AM stations and less RF interference is seen and heard as mostly "grit" or rectified/demodulated AM roaming around. Not a lot of designers poke around for RF in audio designs.The fix I use is clamp-on ferrite cores, instead of spending silly money on cables.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 06:39:35 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on November 26, 2018, 06:20:09 pmAbsolutely, there are plenty of nice, cheap, simple amp chips, my gripe is with the LM386 and its variants, they are nasty, unstable and noisy, there are many more small, cheap and modern amp chips that perform better, are easier to make stable and require fewer components to work well.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 09:33:55 pm
content: I was looking on Ebay for some more distribution sockets of a smaller size that I can mount under my desk.Looks what I come across:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiophile-Power-Mains-Distribution-unit-8-way-US-sockets-Excellent-condition/153268297455Audiophile Power Mains Distribution unit 8-way US sockets Excellent condition£350Aircraft grade aluminium chassis with Gaofei rhodium-plated connectors.·Hand-wired with solid core copper wire· Gaofei rhodium-plated contacts standard IEC inlet (10 amps at 230 volts)· 4 pairs for US mains socket outlets Gaofei rhodium-plated· Dimensions (WHD mm) 328 x 90 x 125· Maximum load 2300W at 230VYou'd find that anywhere.https://www.hificollective.co.uk/power-connectors-gaofei-iec.htmlThe IEC connector only costs £27 excluding VAT and $18 on Ali expresshttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Rhodium-plated-Gaofei-GF-RHO08I-IEC-AC-Inlet-socket-audio-grade/1158165466.htmlDon't know what those US sockets are doing in the UK.https://www.solidrop.net/product/gaofei-rbl-d20a-red-copper-rhodium-plated-ac-20a-power-receptacles-wall-outlet.htmlThey only sell them on Ali Express for $32.20 a piece.The wires looks the same as ordinary solid core.That is something that you can build yourself for tiny fraction of the price.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 09:44:43 pm
content: Somewhere in China there's a guy who just bought himself a Tesla after selling those for a year

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 01:38:31 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 27, 2018, 09:33:55 pmI love rhodium.I really love it - it's the coolest element ever!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 02:16:28 am
content: Quote from: CJay on November 27, 2018, 06:39:35 amNever had a problem with 386s, where did you get yours from? Of course, I got mine from the real Radio Shack store.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 02:20:13 am
content: QuoteThose are trippy blue sockets, wonder where those came from.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 06:46:42 am
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on November 28, 2018, 02:16:28 amI've had them from RS Components, Farnell, Maplin, the local electronics shops (used to be blessed with three in my small home town) and I may even have bought them from the UK version of Radioshack, Tandy, at some point back in the mists of time.To defend the chip a little, I've never managed to burn one up in anything I've 'designed' but I've seen loads in kits, homebrew and even commercial stuff that have had problems.They serve a purpose and are cheap but there are plenty of more modern parts that perform better, are easier to use, less prone to oscillation, deliver more power (if it's needed) and have nice features like DC volume control...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 07:47:40 am
content: I’ve let the smoke out of a few. They still work while it’s coming out which is impressive.Main problems for me are the hiss (unless you apply one of the little tricks people worked out) and the distortion. It sounds horrible. Fine for things like radios where the sound fidelity is crap anyway but not audio applications of a any kind.They make reasonable “power opamps” though for low frequency stuff. I’ve used two of them to drive a motor for example.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 09:10:14 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 28, 2018, 07:47:40 amNot convinced about LM386 being OK for radio, I don't see why you'd want to add more noise or make it sound worse when it sounds pretty bad anyway?As for power op-amps, which ones are you using?I've casually looked around for a replacement for the L165V, I miss that chip, it was a really good all rounder and sounded pretty good as a simple audio PA.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 11:24:35 am
content: LM386 is only "ok" on HF where the noise floor is pretty high anyway. Adding more noise and distortion to the audio chain doesn't really make it much worse than it already is. When the JRC clones appeared, the cost benefit of the noise reduction of a better part wasn't really worth the trade off.Some of the cheap TDA series amps work reasonably well as power opamp, particularly TDA2040. That has decent open loop gain of around 20 up to 10MHz (not bad for an audio amp!), are virtually impossible to blow up and don't have any phase inversion problems. I tend to use an MJE3055 / MJE2955 pair and a TS922 driving the pair as a follower however because they are useful independently as well.

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 11:51:19 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 27, 2018, 09:33:55 pmFor people who want worse connections?One of the nice things about UK sockets is, unlike US sockets, plugs don't tend to fall out and connections are generally much more solid. Australian plugs are mostly decent, as are some of the europlug variants.At least for US folk (and others that use that plug, Japan, Canada etc.) the low voltage and often bad connectors does (sadly) justify some level of upgraded power connections, although of course that stops *WAY* below many of these things.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 02:34:31 pm
content: I totally agree. The AC power plug we have here in the US is not the best. It would make sense just as a short term fix, to invert it at least so that if a plug was not in all the way some conductive item falling from above would hit the ground first, and perhaps not bridge the contacts. At the very least the outlets should recess the plugs into the wall a bit more. That would be a backwards-compatible change.So, since audio modules were brought up, what are people's opinions of audio amplifier modules that can be used to make a quick, basic audio amp for a work area?I may build it into a panel with some other stuff like a quick and handy power supply.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2018, 03:20:45 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on November 28, 2018, 02:34:31 pmI like them, cheap and easy to use, the ones I use on the bench are TDA7297 modules, I've got a few TDA2030 modules too, I use those to replace fried audio amps when the original chips are obsolete.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-6-18V-TDA7297-Digital-2x15W-2-CH-Audio-Stereo-Amplifier-Board-Module/292429885226?hash=item44162def2a:m:mOmOGx-4zbpjwlQ_843UrKg:rk:5:pf:1&frcectupt=trueThey need a bigger heatsink but work well enough as supplied if you don't turn up the volume too much.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 04:53:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 28, 2018, 11:24:35 amJeez bd, you pop up on the most interesting threads; now there's a whole 40 minutes of my life I'll never get back, all just because I made the mistake of trying to find a post of yours from a few days back...What I find hard to believe is that nobody here bothered to follow the rabbit-hole down to this shamelessly opportunistic website, which "product" was used to provide "supporting evidence" of the quality of these cables in the original article.https://www.thecablecooker.comWARNING!I recommend you don full close-quarters aggressive-engagement HazMat gear before proceeding; hip waders simply are NOT adequate with the frequency and velocity at which the badunka-dunk is flying over there.If you are fully suited-up, I suggest you take a deep dive inthe FAQ section; your life will never be the same.mnem

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 05:07:30 pm
content: A cooker to cook cables.A device to burn them.Fuses with beeswax in them.Cables built by so called masters.USA built Reference cables from China.Sounds like an illusion.What are they on?

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 05:49:56 pm
content: "A fool and his money are some party..."mnem

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 06:00:53 pm
content: Quote from: mnementh on November 29, 2018, 04:53:46 pmThanks for bringing up the cable cooker. I bolded it in the original post but nobody else did. This stuff isQuote

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2018, 06:54:04 pm
content: Here's a joke: To be fair there was just too much wankery to read especially for something that slithers around on the coach and I don't want to know where it's been or what has been done to it and they can stew it down on their "cooker" all they want.Surprise surprise they also discuss it at Audigoons:Spoilter alert:If your IQ is affected in anyway by reading this stuff better not read the thread or the quote below.https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anyone-own-an-audiodharma-cable-cookerQuoteAudioDharma Cooker? It's more like AudioDrama.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 12:41:00 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 25, 2018, 11:14:49 pmI've owned a pair of Genelec 1031A active studio monitors for 22 years now. They're biamped with an active crossover. XLR analog in. Attached to the TV is a pair of the KRK RokIt 5 guys, also biamped with balanced input. And I got a pair of the $99 Mackie biamped powered monitors, because I designed a couple of audio things and when testing I didn't want to blow up the Genelecs. (I haven't blown up the Mackies, though.)

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 12:44:44 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 23, 2018, 02:46:48 amA 15-day free trial? Hmmm. Let's see what happens when the fuse has to, you know, do its primary job, which is to open in the event of a mains short ...

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:14:16 am
content: I can't help thinking that the bees wax in those fuses is far too yellow/orange looking. In fact it looks more like ear wax.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:36:09 am
content: Quote from: Towger on November 30, 2018, 05:14:16 amFor the ultimate compatibility with your biological audio system.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:01:59 am
content: Wait, the Cable Cooker says it can do capacitors. So I can take my really old crusty and dead tube type paper and electrolytic capacitors and reform them? What do want the bet that the Cable Cooker would be cooked?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:53:13 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 30, 2018, 12:44:44 amI didn't dig too deep because I could feel my brain overloading with all the bullshit but what I didn't see were any claims that the fuses complied with the relevant safety standards...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 07:54:17 am
content: I bet they smell nice when they rupture though

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 10:17:25 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 30, 2018, 07:54:17 amI wonder if there's a market for homeopathic fuses, ylanylang for relaxing music, oil of evening primrose tincture for fans of music over 60 years old, Patchouli oil for music from the 60s and 70s...(can't think of ylangylang without Billy Connolly, Let me through, I'm an aromatherapist popping into my head)

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:37:28 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on November 30, 2018, 05:14:16 amThey should dig the wax out of their ears first.

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:45:07 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 30, 2018, 05:37:28 pmMillion dollar audiophool idea not explored yet: High-end cotton swabs pre-moistened with nanotechnology biotech solvent. $150 for a sachet of three. Of course, they will certify that the cotton was harvested by discerning biologists and spun using a "relaxed" Susan. Trial offer for Audiogoon members, only $125 for the first fifteen orders.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: Wan Huang Luo on November 30, 2018, 05:45:07 pmIt's a fantastic idea but I think it'd be far more fun to sell them pre-impregnated cotton buds, they could choose to condition their ears with the ear wax of famous and highly 'respected' audiofools so they experience the same acoustic delights as their 'heroes'

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:45:27 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on November 30, 2018, 06:39:41 pmOne swab to clean them all,One swab to condition them,One swab to wax them all,And in the darkness bind them

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 07:15:03 pm
content: Quote from: Wan Huang Luo on November 30, 2018, 05:45:07 pmQuote from: Wan Huang Luo on November 30, 2018, 06:45:27 pmWaxative free swabs and cotton buds withnanotechnology biotech solvents, Proprietary formula.All cryogenically frozen.Comes in special casings made of special precious laboratory metals.See our demo featuring relaxed Susan.Trial offer for Audiogoon members, only $125 for the first fifteen orders.Any ideas for a cooker to go with it?

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 09:30:42 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on November 30, 2018, 07:15:03 pmThe swab shafts are carefully arranged and precisely spaced on either side of a hollow inner core in order to provide a perfect mechanical interface along the length of the swab. The meticulous layout of the gold-pressed cotton buds minimizes skin effect and reduces damping, while the meticulously formulated solvents reduce internal microphony. These swabs can be 'pre-charged' before use by moving them back and forth inside our ferrite ring, included with our compliments with your first purchase.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 01:08:22 pm
content: Do it! Hopefully, they'll all stab their eardrums out with them and we won't have to worry about them anymore.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 03:48:26 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on December 01, 2018, 01:08:22 pmI think one already went deaf.I re-quote from Audiogoon:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cannot-find-perfect-sound/post?postid=1643618QuoteSomewhere up the thread and their hearing is going to or on Dire Straits:QuoteSo it is the recordings that are crap and not your ears?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 04:59:22 pm
content: Actually had a look at that forum. Comedy gold in there. You could troll them so easily.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 05:15:46 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 01, 2018, 04:59:22 pmI did post something on Audiogoon but got no response:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/has-anybody-tried-the-sony-high-quarity-sound-microsdxc-memory-cardQuoteIt was to do with the EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card.Surprised not to see them talking about it and I'd though they would go crazy over mentioning it but it was a disappointment.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 10:16:47 pm
content: Ahhahhahaha give it a few hours. They are probably polishing their cables with beeswax

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 10:40:45 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 01, 2018, 10:16:47 pmAfter I read that I suffered from a fit of laughter and nearly choked on it.I know my Audiogoon thread is some weeks old and still no reply but that comment is one of best comments ever.Wouldn't surprise me if they are still polishing their cables with Beeswax.I know a good marketing brand name you can use to make and sell things to the Audiogoons and it is calledPhools Gold.But no gold in it.

author: mnementh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 08:38:25 pm
content: Awww, come on... you should at least pony up for a few microns of gold plating...mnem"Waxing my cables*

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 08:48:22 pm
content: Have to mention this year's RSGB April fools. Having a bit of a stab at the idea here as well I think. They added this to their store and advertised it in Radcom:Brown with glitter. No coincidence I suspect!

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2018, 09:19:47 pm
content: Comes precooked for those who don't own an oven.You can offer them in casings made out of marbles as they could do with a few.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 02:59:53 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 02, 2018, 08:48:22 pmThat's copperslip, sadly it's probably not OFC, nor will it have been treated cryogenically so unless you store the pot on acutely aligned obsidian pyramids it will make your SWARRRR worse, not better and may lead to phasic misalignment on LSB.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2018, 03:10:06 am
content: Quote from: CJay on December 03, 2018, 02:59:53 amTrue, but the effect can be offset by implantation of de-nuetralized silver and then coated with phosphoric-implanted and clean-room prepared platinum. This procedure should be performed in a Zero-gravity area for best results, although it may yield an increase in performance without this step.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 07:42:17 am
content: I made these 10awg speaker wires the other day, may have $13 in parts total per cable pair in them. I bet if I spent more money they would sound better

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:11:11 am
content: Now fire up the marketing brain and sell them for $10k a aet

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:20:02 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 08, 2018, 08:11:11 amI've seriously considered it, but I have a conscience.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 08:33:35 am
content: If someone can afford $10k on a set of cables then you’re doing a public service taking their money away so it isn’t used on other crazy things like ammunition and guns

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 09:23:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2018, 09:34:59 am"extremely difficult to build considering Audio Magic is drilling into both sides of the fuse"This sounds like they buy standard hollow19 cent glass fuses, then drill holes and fill it with something, really bees wax? And then print a label on it. I don't care if audiophools buy a $1 million speaker cable, but manipulation a fuse in such a way might be a fire hazard and even illegal to sell. Someone should buy it, test it professionally, and then sue the company who sells it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2018, 01:34:13 pm
content: Very true. I might ask them about their CE approval

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 11:25:58 pm
content: Here is a closeup:It seems have got two powdery things and some kind of liquid in the middle.I wonder if that stuff can become conductive and it prevents the fuse from blowing in normal circumstances.If it does blow up the Beeswax will hit the "fans".

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 12:27:39 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 09, 2018, 11:25:58 pmThat's insane, they've recycled standard fuses and filled them with their bullshit magic formula.I wonder if the original manufacturer can be determined?

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 01:47:24 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on December 10, 2018, 12:27:39 pmFrom the closeup photo are the Verband Deutscher Electrotechniker (Germany - VDE) & Svenska Elektriska Materielkontrollanstalten (Sweden - SEMKO) approval marks, otherwise the numbers look to be IEC127.Searching for more images just makes me think they probably buy a box of "whatever" from a wholesaler. Before modification they're almost certainly decent fuses that meet their specs.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 02:17:36 pm
content: I'm really curious to know how many of those $35K cables were sold ... If it's a one man operation, just 5 a year would be enough

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 02:29:34 pm
content: I suspect they are selling at least a few per year. You can find one of those ridiculous mains cableon eBay, if it is not a sock puppet account of the manufacturer. And the MasterBuild website lists many distributors, the Nordost website even more: Just for Germany they list one distributor, and 59 dealers. Looks like there are really some fools out there who buys this stuff.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2018, 03:45:36 pm
content: Quote from: LapTop006 on December 10, 2018, 01:47:24 pmI think these things need to be brought to the attention of whatever local body monitors electrical safety standards in your country.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 06:15:18 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on December 10, 2018, 02:29:34 pmLooking at the feedback it seems he buys from China and sells things as well as those cables.It is a cable and it is going to be plugged in most to all of the time so why bother putting a lock on it and why would anybody want to steal that peace of crap anyway and if they did they'd just smash the box open.Or is it so precious it is intended not to be used at all but to be kept in there like a piece of jewellery for sentimentalists except this one does not have got any gold in it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 08:03:21 am
content: Is that a wooden ferrite core on that lead?

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 08:59:02 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 11, 2018, 08:03:21 amEverybody knows that wooden ferrite cores on power cables give you much more airy and natural timbre midtones with crisp and warm lows, but without the obvious sibilant and harsh highs you get with actual ferrite.Furthermore, it strikes a positive balance with the natural wood the speaker enclosures are made from, resulting in lush and harmonious listening experience. They actively help in reducing noise in the mains, caused by outside factors, by adding positive mass to the cables themselves and enhancing the overall audio system.Wooden ferrite cores likely have the highest cost/benefit ratio you could possibly invest in, and are a must for every serious and discerning audiophool.I have a few in my shop, if you're interested. They're on Christmas season discount and usually sell for only $750, but with a 20% off coupon you can get them for $600.How many do you think I would sell if I posted this on an audiophool forum?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:48:35 am
content: Quote from: Domagoj T on December 11, 2018, 08:59:02 amSurely you mean 'natural timber'?

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 11:01:01 am
content: I was actually debating with myself which one to use, but opted forhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TimbreCan't be fooling around here, can I? This is serious stuff. Lot's of money involved.Although it would be funny if the core screamed "TIMBER!!!" at random intervals.Inclusion of "highest cost/benefit ratio" should be enough of a pun.

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 02:59:57 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on December 11, 2018, 10:48:35 amNatural timber timbre midtones.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 06:31:56 pm
content: Quote from: Wan Huang Luo on December 11, 2018, 02:59:57 pmPine for Bjork, Oak for British music, Sequoia for American, Maple Canadian etc..

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 09:29:47 pm
content: I usually follow the musings of Paul McGowan at his company's (PS Audio) channel on youtube. He has some good takes, but I was put off by one of his videos where he talks about the green pen and the performance mains cables sold by his company.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2018, 10:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on December 11, 2018, 06:31:56 pmLet's not forget the Maple and Mahogany wooden ferrite core plug-ons when listening to guitar based AOR tunesBesides the obvious timbre/timber benefits, the wooden ferrite acts as an electrical isolation barrierespecially in harsh hi-fi placement situations like on a polished wood floor with steel frame underneath of unknown grade,added with the conflicts of deploying dissimilar weld joint and fastener metals used by clueless builder/tradies who can't appreciate a proper listening environment for hip hop and Bach mashups------------------BTW: I motion/vote that from this day forth ALL audiophool product peddlers chip in and contribute a regular HUGE Patreon donation to EEVblog Inc.for the massive amount of technical information and jargon presented across many posts here, unashamedly 'borrowing' and using in their ad spins.i.e. it's not fair that DJ picks up the blog server tab every monthwhile they fill up carpet bags with easy cash.Hey, we know you're here lurking and copy-pasting.And we know you use plain figure 8 for speaker cabling, used 50 cent swap meet IEC kettle cords and $2 shop RCA cables in your personal hi-fi rigs.Try and tell it different =Enough is enough > it's time to dig deep and share the reaped benefits from the wood ducksWhat say all those present here?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 02:56:14 am
content: I only buy audio components which are perfectly impedance matched over the entire range from 5 Hz to 100 KHz.Thus I require that any commercial audio cables I purchase include a test report using a Keysight E5061B-3L3 with the 1E5 High Stability Timebase option from 5 Hz to 100 KHz for the serial number of the cable as well as the NIST calibration certificate with data and uncertainties for the most recent calibration of the E5061B.After all, a person cannot be too careful. Your ears are irreplaceable. Just think of the damage that poor quality audio components can cause. I am shocked at the utter disregard of certain forum members to this vitally important issue.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 08:10:33 am
content: Quote from: taydin on December 10, 2018, 02:17:36 pmWell, I sincerely hope that no one. Because the cable for a modest $ 7,000 was enough to cause this:https://www.amazon.com/review/R3I8VKTCITJCX6

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 01:21:44 pm
content: At least there is no "verified purchase" review. But I guess the persons who buy such a cable don't use Amazon, they are too busy swimming in their money, and their servants buy this for them from special audiophool shops

author: Wan Huang Luo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2018, 02:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on December 12, 2018, 02:56:14 amThat would require a cable manufacturer to spend as much as they charge for a speaker wire. Unacceptable capital investment.

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2018, 10:35:50 pm
content: I like the part where they used Coat Hangers and the "Audiophiles" could not tell the difference;http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2018, 11:22:45 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 14, 2018, 10:35:50 pmAs long as you prep the ends with sandpaper and some Deoxit (or metho or WD40 to go the full frugal route) coathangers can sound quite airy and detailed even with the .5 ohm resistance addedAnother plus is the convenience to easily disable one of the speakers temporarilyif you get locked out of your car

author: Domagoj T
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2018, 04:34:01 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Detective on December 14, 2018, 11:22:45 pmI find that using them leads to too many hanging notes.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2018, 08:54:32 pm
content: Here's a joke:I wonder what these audiophools are afraid of the most.No longer having the reassurance from their "masters" about the "build" quality in the cables cables they purchased from them because they "built" a new one.An oscilloscope hooked up to the cables to verify "things" that they claim to hear.A hearing test to check whether they can hear properly.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2018, 09:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 14, 2018, 10:35:50 pmCoat hangers made my system sound woolly.

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 12:25:12 am
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 14, 2018, 10:35:50 pmAudiofools hate double-blind tests because it exposes their nonsense beliefs to scientific scrutiny. I participate on a forum where DBT has been used quite a lot to compare lossy audio to lossless - another embarrassment to the so-called "golden ears".

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 01:57:20 am
content: Quote from: GregDunn on December 17, 2018, 12:25:12 amA computer magazine did such a test18 years ago. The test setup: they used 17 different music pieces, and people had to listen to 1 minute CD quality first, then either 128 kbit/s MP3, 256 kbit/s or the same CD quality again, for 1 minute. So it was a A/B test. Unfortunately the article doesn't go into the details if it was a double-blind test, but I guess they knew what they were doing. The conclusion: nobody could hear a difference between CD quality and 256 kbit/s MP3, the 256 kbit/s MP3 was classified as CD quality as often as the CD quality test. But some people could hear a difference between 128 kbit/s MP3 and CD quality. But again, for some music, people thought the 128 kbit/s MP3 was better than the CD quality.I think maybe an even better test setup than A/B is theABX test, executed as double blind trials as well: "A subject is presented with two known samples (sample A, the first reference, and sample B, the second reference) followed by one unknown sample X that is randomly selected from either A or B. The subject is then required to identify X as either A or B.". The statistical results are less ambiguous than the concept with the arbitrary point system used by the computer magazine test. But I guess audiophools would argue that the relays used to switch the speaker cables influenced the sound, or other silly arguments. BTW, I think using mechanical relays could be a problem, because you could potentially hear different click sounds for different audio paths. Should be well shielded or very quiet relays.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 05:35:54 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 15, 2018, 08:54:32 pmI'd advise stubborn AFers to get the ear wax fudge flushed out first,especially if the sound is no longer as airy as it was when they first used the $ $ $ $ $ $ speaker wire,and some blab on how a wax clean improves the ears audio convection () to get their attention,because the facts and A-B blindfold comparison mashup is obviously Verboten CityAdvice that will most likely go in one ear, and out the ? ? ? anyway...

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 05:57:00 am
content: Quote from: FrankBuss on December 17, 2018, 01:57:20 amYes, the ABX test is a superior scientific tool to perform DBT and that's what I use for audio codec evaluations. In fact, a proper ABX test allows the user to select the material, the actual sample length and location, and run an unlimited number of selections before choosing each instance. At least (I think) 16 instances per test should be conducted in order to exclude random choice to a <5% level. Properly designed, it eliminates nearly all possible objections to the accuracy of the test. Just FYI, I can barely tell 128K lossy from a lossless source on high quality material; the total test (I only managed 10 instances) lasted half an hour and was quite tiring because I had to strain to hear any difference at all. It would have been entirely adequate for casual listening. I'm pretty sure 192K or higher would be completely transparent for me, even with critical listening.There existed (and may still exist) an electromechanical test box for comparing amplifiers, cables, etc. which ensured that any audible/visual clues were obscured to the point that specific settings could not be determined independently. I think it actually switched relays whether A, B, or X was selected, and ensured that the path was a constant length + same number of relay contacts just to eliminate another set of objections. It was used by a group called the SMWTMS for numerous tests in which the fallacy of audible differences between cables, interconnects, and quality amplifiers was repeatedly challenged and defeated.

author: mrz80
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2019, 09:21:50 pm
content: Oh good LORD ALMIGHTY but my head hurts after reading the ad copy (and ESPECIALLY after reading the TAS excerpt) at the head of this thread!I've been sitting on the edge of the audio world since I was a little kid, watching it all go down, and the capacity of the human animal to lie to himself and believe it just goes beyond all bounds in this environment.I used to go round-and-round with a coworker who's a degreed electrical engineer and REALLY ought to KNOW better about the whole cables thing. Ah well, he doesn't have kids so it's not like he's squandering anyone's inheritance...I am **SO** glad my granddad (one of the pioneers of this once respectable, now misbegotten environment) did not live to see the reasoned, conservative, well-engineered approach to high fidelity audio reproduction so marginalized by a group of people, companies, and magazines that make Amar Bose look like a pillar of moral rectitude and truth in advertising! Oh, and for those who want to start a rational discussion about wire with someone who might NOT be too far gone to rescue from drinking the snake oil...http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

author: Deodand2014
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2019, 12:35:54 pm
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 01, 2018, 03:48:26 pmNo idea, I recently picked up a pair of second hand LG LHS-W75TAF (6ohm, 200watt) speakers to pair with my audio unit (4-16ohm, 65watt), both seem to sound fine, though even my non-expert hearing makes me want to find out just what is inside the speakers, as I'm not sure if they are working correctly (When I pass below the mid plane of the speaker towers the sound is 'above' me.) I seriously doubt any audiophile would be able to tell much more than that.

author: mrz80
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2019, 08:52:25 pm
content: Quote from: GregDunn on December 17, 2018, 05:57:00 amThat has been my experience as well. In a pristine audio environment maybe I *might* discern audible degradation in a 128k MP3 vs the source, but in the real world, noisy kitchen/living room at home, the zoo-like cubefarm at work, or God help us all the car, it's a non-issue. Compression artifacts are totally swamped by lousy car speakers and environmental noise.Quote from: GregDunn on December 17, 2018, 05:57:00 amAh, the South West Michigan Woofer and Tweeter Marching Society! I remember seeing that name in old Audio Amateur magazines. Are they still a going concern? I sure hope so, if just for the name!Roger Russell describes a similar setup that Gordon Gow used to use during his lectures on the ins and outs of speaker cable.http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#gordongow

author: electromotive
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 04:50:30 pm
content: I expect better screen printing for $35,000. It's not even embossed.

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 09:59:08 pm
content: Quote from: electromotive on March 05, 2019, 04:50:30 pmIt's tempting to call you a Philistine, but anyway, it's clear you just don't understand. I shall attempt to educate you, although I feel it's a lost cause.When assembling a top end speaker cable system like this, each part has to be carefully auditioned, not just for it's own merits, but for its ability to work cooperatively and complement other parts of the system. The lettering is not just an identification, it was chosen for its acoustic competence as well as its nominal role, and is workmanlike but is not merely functional.There is something of the artist about it, taking pride in its work and willingly going the extra mile, but it resists being a prima donna, a trap gold embossed lettering can easily fall into. It forms part of an exquisitely balanced team which can not merely cope, but excel with any programme material, Heavy Metal, Chamber Music, Gregorian Chant, Blues, and can make the best of any source, even making up for the glaring deficiencies of being matched with budget (sub $10,000) components. It plays its part in a whole which is definite without being overly insistent, and precise, but avoids straying into being boringly pedantic. It greatly adds to the presence. It plays a full and positive part in a very musical but restrained component system which many would describe as frighteningly revealing - especially about the sanity of anyone tempted to buy it.Sorry about that. This thing is nonsense on stilts. Still maybe it's only jousting for silliness with audiophile mains leads of any sort - shouldn't purchasers also have their house wiring redone in at least solid silver cable?I suppose on balance, this audiophoolery is a good thing. There's a demand and a market created and I doubt many kids are going to school barefoot because of it.

author: Pluscrafter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2019, 11:31:29 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on November 14, 2018, 06:47:48 amFor this price a gold plated platin wire would be appropirate.Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk

author: Stuart Coyle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 10:32:11 pm
content: I'm an amateur beekeeper. Maybe I can sell my pure organic oxygen-free Italian queen Manuka beeswax to them to make fuses with.I will only charge $25000 per kilogram.

author: grifftech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 05:49:45 pm
content: it probably sounds better than $0.01 per meter

author: GregDunn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:28:47 pm
content: Quote from: mrz80 on February 08, 2019, 08:52:25 pmYes, in the car or just as background music, or with a lower quality recording, there's no way I could hear a difference. The ABX test really requires each pair of samples to be compared, randomized, and compared again at least 10 times to be statistically significant. It took me minutes of listening and repeated comparisonsfor each excerptin order to hear anything at 128k - and to be completely honest, I have no idea what it was that I used to ID the differences. It was a nearly subconscious perception of clarity or something, but whatever it was, I was able to pick 10/10 for each of the samples so it wasn't imagination. After the 10 tests for each sample, I was very fatigued and had to take a break. IMHO, anyone who says the differences are "obvious" has never actually done a scientific test.Quote from: mrz80 on February 08, 2019, 08:52:25 pmI love those guys. They approach high fidelity in a rational, positive way and share their findings willingly. No one stands to profit from deception in that group. I just wish they were better known in the industry; the only way it seems you can get in touch with them is via email or snail mail, and their monthly meetings are livecast but not advertised anywhere except on their site. At one time they sold the ABX box, but it seems hard to find info on it today.

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 07:33:05 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 23, 2018, 09:34:59 amWill these fit in my multimeter? I've been getting wonky readings lately i think the fuses are causing too much noise.

author: Radiosonde
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 07:55:24 pm
content: LolI should sell 7/8 cellflex with 7/16 connectors for Audio...surely in a flexible clowth out of silk, sewed by virgins in moonlight.Its only 5000 $ per meter...LGGesendet von meinem SM-J730F mit Tapatalk

author: mrz80
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 06:27:47 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on November 22, 2018, 10:19:20 amThat was exactly what my grandfather did when he retired and moved from Binghamton to Phoenix. He scrounged a few lengths of 12/3 the electrician had pitched when the house was a-building, and used it for speaker wire. If it was good enough for The Old Man™ it oughta be good enough for anyone.In my system I used a 25' 12/3 extension cord cut in half and the ends terminated with banana plugs and spade lugs, with some heat-shrink to keep it all looking neat. Looks fancy high end from a distance, and only cost me about $30 at Home Cheapot. Siskel and Ebert give it two thumbs up!

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 08:38:06 am
content: I have shown this thread title to a friend who asked, apparently without joking, if this is a superconducting wire. I laughed but then thought wow, this would make an ultimate audiophool-money-grade gear to show off with, the holy grail of speaker cable. Actually the cable itself could be much cheaper, you can get thin-film high-Tc coated leads within $1k or less and a flexible vacuum-insulated cryogenic housing isn't that much more. Cooling is a bit more problematic, the standard commercial cryocoolers (Gifford-McMahon cycle or similar) are way too noisy for audio environment, maybe a mini Stirling cooler would be silent enough. Otherwise a dewar with liquid nitrogen? Of course with a contract for weekly refill.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 02:00:20 pm
content: Y'know I wonder if products like these are important means of laundering or embezzlement. You buy so-and-so from me and I perform so-and-so service for you, and voila, money has changed hands for whatever underhanded purpose. Except it's not just money, but a legitimate good, and who's to say what the fair market value of that good is but its agreed sale price?The cost of materials and labor that went into such a good, are merely a kind of tax extracted upon the laundered money. The cost of doing business.The scale doesn't seem quite appropriate for this though; I'd have to think they'd be moving quantities of thousands, to handle the scale of money that's normally needed to be laundered? No idea, I know very little about the economics of such things...Tim

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2019, 04:18:19 pm
content: For audio products, I am sure it started off as a real market but the money launderers would be dumb if they were not taking advantage of it by now. Incidentally, the same thing is done in online games to facilitate third party money for gold transactions.

author: worsthorse
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2019, 09:02:31 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on May 13, 2019, 02:00:20 pmIt is much easier to use AirBnB, Ebay, Amazon, and such to launder large sums of money. I imagine this sort of stuff is a much simpler, legal, very high margin con.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 04:32:46 pm
content: It's all make believe... They make it and the buyers believe it.

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 12:17:55 am
content: Two quotes come to mind:"There's a sucker born every minute" -- P. T. Barnum"Some people have more money than brains" -- Me

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 01:33:55 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on December 15, 2018, 08:54:32 pmTheir ultimate fear is a true double blind experiment.Not even when James Randi's $1M was on the line to hear the difference in speaker cables did anyone take him up on it.

author: Keicar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 05:04:02 am
content: What I find curious is that it's invariably described as a night-and-day difference ("veils were lifted" etc.) that you could hear from the next room, even - yet it can't be discerned in a blind test, because reasons...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 12:33:37 pm
content: There is no meaningful difference to the ears using the products. However, there is a difference to their minds with these products in place.The "effect" is the "bonding" achieved with their systems vis-a-vis the apparent beauty of the physical appearance of the products. That is one reason these manufacturers pay special attention to the external appearance. This is to create the feeling that, because of the beauty, the productmustbe doing something special; therefore, the soundmusthave been improved.The cost is also important - it must beexorbitant. This must be the case, because anything added that was cheap could not possibly be a useful technology when added to their already outlandishly expensive equipment. Good sound has to cost a lot, and so nothing inexpensive can do any (more) good. In fact anything cheap would cause their systems to be ruined as far as the perceived sonic greatness they have paid so much for already.It's all simply psycho-marketing, which I will admit they are masters at.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2019, 03:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on September 13, 2019, 12:33:37 pmAs I said before, it's pretty much the same for a huge chunk of all the luxury industry. Is a $20k luxury watch going to give you more accurate time than a well-designed, modern $30 watch? Yes, but insignificantly in many cases. Of course the pure technical facts, at least from the pure performance POV, are often of little importance for all things luxury.OTOH, a luxury watch may last a lifetime. That's something. The same can apply to a luxury cable. If it's designed well and uses good materials. Even if it doesn't do squat for sound quality. Even the luxury items are marketed for their performance, when the extra performance does actually matter little or is not even there. It's not just in the audio industry. It's just marketing. Marketers do that because they know most people don't feel comfortable passing as shallow, even when they are.But if it's just grossly overpriced and badly designed crap, then it's not luxury. It's just rip-off.

author: FrankBuss
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2019, 12:13:43 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 13, 2019, 03:31:22 pmI once had a wristwatch with solar cells and a DCF77 receiver. Can't remember the exact model, but it was something likethis. There is no watch which will give you more accurate time, but it doesn't cost costs a fortune (EUR 330).

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2019, 04:33:59 pm
content: The advantage of a luxury watch is that it's an investment, it will still be worth a significant percentage of its purchase price or may even appreciate in value.HiFi, unlikely and even then only to a tiny niche market.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2019, 04:38:36 pm
content: It is meant to be a jewelry , not a time keeping device.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2019, 05:06:05 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on September 16, 2019, 04:33:59 pmGiven the likely depreciation and, even with appreciation, the time-value of money, I'm still financially better off buying cheap functional watches and throwing them away every few years. I agree, fine watches are jewelry and status symbols -- nothing wrong with that.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2019, 03:38:14 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 16, 2019, 05:06:05 pmYes, and high-end Hi-Fi gear as well for some.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 08:10:11 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 18, 2019, 03:38:14 pmI don't have a problem with someone buying pure gold audiocables. I have a problem with someone advertising them using ludicrous (and/or immeasurable/impossible) claims.If someone wants to buy the equivalent of a 10 EUR speaker cable for 30k EUR, by all means. He's an idiot, but if he thinks that's what he needs to do, then by all means.If however the manufacturer advertises it using false claims, then it's a scam and it should be treated and prosecuted as such.edit:From the link at the start:QuoteSo, 99.9999% pure copper is a proprietary formulation? What's the extra 1ppm?

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 11:47:51 am
content: No court, even the ones in banana republics, would consider audiophool equipment a scam. Let's consider a hypothetical $90,000 CD player with a 200 Kg lead implanted frame to reduce vibrations. It makes the buyer happy, makes him feel special, privileged, above the restAnd he's willing to piss away that much money. And he pays that amount, shakes hand with the seller and leaves with a big smile on his face. Why would a court rule this as scam?The only way for this to be scam would be if the CD player manufacturer would publish measurable specs and the device would fail to meet them. But good luck finding any measurable and relevant specs for this CD player. The only spec you will find is the width of the sound stage, the amount of "temper" and "crispness" the sound has.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 03:01:09 pm
content: QuoteSadly, in most cases it probably would not. It's false advertising though, if nothing else. The moment you claim something about your product, you should be able to back that up. And this kind of crap hurts legitimate businesses more than the dumb bastard who bought the crap.

author: taydin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 03:57:06 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 20, 2019, 03:01:09 pmOk, manufacturer says in the specs that the sound stage is wide. The audiophool agrees. So there is no conflict. But let's say later on the phool changed his mind and sues because the sound stage isn't as wide as was claimed. How does the court do the fact finding?

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 04:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: taydin on September 20, 2019, 03:57:06 pmIt goes to a jury trial, with technically incompetent lawyers presenting their case to technically incompetent jurors who couldn't manage to get out of jury duty. The most emotionally persuasive argument carries the day.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2019, 09:00:42 pm
content: Provably false claims are those with figures that can be challenged and verified. And when figures are given and smell, and someone manages to prove them false, that's great. And we can genuinely call that a scam.When the claims are all based on qualitative parameters and not hard figures, they often can't be proven false. You fall for those claims for any reason, fine. What's the problem? Again it's the part of audio that's in the luxury area. Who cares if you want your f*cking cables to be 100% hard gold or use moon dust or whatever else? So you're ready to shell out tens of thousands for speaker wires, and you run into some company that has them AND tells you that they are better than anything else. Now who is the idiot, and is a company ready to fulfill a customer's need to blame? Pretty much all companies do that. Sure the corresponding needs are sometimes debatable, but I don't think any of those companies forces anyone to buy. As I just said, if you shell out that much for wires, you were ready to do so anyway. Who in their right mind would suddenly spend that much when they were considering, for instance, 1000 times less expensive stuff? Come on.The sad thing with audio gear IMO is that the average joe is often subjected to either overpriced audiophool stuff, or low-cost atrocious crap that some claim are as good as anything. The reasonable, fact- AND experience-based opinions are relatively hard to find for the average crowd.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2019, 08:46:36 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 20, 2019, 08:10:11 amObviously, ear wax extracted solely from nude virgins, which is what gives it that truly magical sound quality.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 12:59:23 am
content: Did no one read the specs? The most impressive thing about these cables is their current capacity, listed as 100 Amps. Since they also say that the wire is 10 gauge you can compare that to the rated capacity for copper wire which is only 55 amps in chassis wiring applications (short runs and free air) and only 15 amps for power transmission. Even silver wire wouldn't reduce the resistance enough to make that much difference.So I don't care if it sounds good, it is magical for carrying power. Unless of course they may be totally consistent in the veracity of their facts. Or using some magical conversion from a flaky Effective Audio Power rating back to amperes.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 06:12:14 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on September 24, 2019, 12:59:23 amThat's probably it. Remember "music power" ratings? I haven't seen those in a while.

author: mzzj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 06:22:30 am
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on September 24, 2019, 12:59:23 amEasy, 10 AWG should handle 1.6kA for 10 seconds before fusing.Water-cooled audiophool cables anyone?Water-cooled TIG welding torch cables are only something like 8 to 10 AWG and good for 200...250 amps

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2019, 01:44:47 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 24, 2019, 06:12:14 amOf course it is 100A PMPO, not RMS.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2019, 03:22:59 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on September 24, 2019, 01:44:47 pmHere ya go then :

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2019, 09:27:14 pm
content: Maybe that's a correct value - for DASS Frequency response. I dunno, I don't have any tools that can measure that.That lower curve sure is weird though - what is that one supposed to represent? Double peaks down low, then off to infinity above 20K? Does that mean if I play high enough frequencies through this thing, dogs halfway around the world will perk up their ears?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2019, 11:51:27 pm
content: Unless the picture doesn't give the right sense of proportion, the speakers look pretty small. 20kW? Yeah sure. Maybe that's the amount of power this sucker draws, but probably not what you get out of it.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 02:15:14 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 25, 2019, 11:51:27 pmNo you'd be right. Also, those "speakers" have incandescent lamps in the center.I saw that stashed in the corner of a shed at some dudes place, so I needed to snap a pic. It's a cheap karaoke machine.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 08:18:29 pm
content: There used to be a car booster amplifier for sale in the UK, it was common to find people selling them as 200 Watt graphic equaliser booster amplifier when all it contained were a couple of Phillips TDA1516* 2x12 Watt BTL chips.Wyhen you found the importer's catalogue it was very clear what the output rating was, when you got the item the box was emblazoned with the model number all over the box but only had the spec in very small print on an inner leaf of the box.The model number was 200W.* I'm slightly amazed that I remembered the chip part number and spec so I went and googled it to check I was right, I did replace rather a lot of them because ~30 years ago I worked in a shop as a tech repairing all sorts of electronics and they were a really common chip, cheap but decent performance for the price.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2019, 09:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on September 26, 2019, 02:15:14 amCould those lamps have been wired in series with the speaker, to provide a sort of average-power current-limiting? Given the nonlinear resistance vs Voltage, that might work OK. Plus, it would provide a nice light show.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 12:18:24 am
content: Quote from: fourfathom on September 26, 2019, 09:13:29 pmI think they are just there as decorative lighting. IDK if they modulate, can't be bothered to look up the specs of rubbish.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2019, 12:40:36 am
content: Hmm, light bulbs as speaker domes... (at least this looks like it)... what a nice idea.(Maybe it's better designed than I think, but if not, and they are indeed replacing the speaker center domes, good lord.)

author: Deodand2014
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 03:18:00 am
content: A teardown of an 'Audio Grade' power cable......the conclusion, great conversation piece if you're willing to spend $20 US to get one

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 05:50:39 pm
content: Looking at the way he pulled it out the socket at 2.29 in the video it looks to me like it could work its way out.Can that cause problems where it can become loose if nudged or pulled from the cable and not make proper contact?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 07:21:57 pm
content: If they want a better connection how about they solder it into the wall

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 10:23:02 am
content: I will never thank enoughbd139for this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/wooden-electrolytic-capacitors/To me, that is still the pinnacle of audiophile, DHTRob is the pope of the audiophile church.If you selling crazy overpriced product to (idiot) people your sin is not so dramatic as when you waste your time and money in damaging component best case.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 12:59:59 pm
content: Quote from: Zucca on January 24, 2020, 10:23:02 amQuoteOh my goodness!

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 01:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 23, 2020, 07:21:57 pmAnd never, ever open up the enclosure of your 10k audio equipment to check for the mains and audio out wiring. That would end up with a stroke.(Then I like nice looking cables, though being technically pointless...)

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 01:35:46 pm
content: I am pretty sure there's a whole club of jokers who do nothing all day but feeding those audio expert funny project ideas. Which they promptly put out into the public for us all to enjoy.Thank you guys. I really appreciate your service, whoever you are.Now, back to listening to John Cleese and Eric Idle having a chat.

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2020, 03:31:26 pm
content: Good grief...Someone should tell him that capacitors sound best when encased in tungsten carbide. Or aerogel, that would be equally funny.I'm minded to quote Albert Einstein at this point: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 06:51:36 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 23, 2020, 07:21:57 pmA guy in Japan paid to have his own power pole installed so he could get purer power.https://thevinylfactory.com/news/japanese-audiophiles-personal-utility-pole/

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 07:46:20 pm
content: If P T Barnum was alive today, he'd probably be Emperor of the entire planet

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 09:03:49 pm
content: Quote from: Sal Ammoniac on January 27, 2020, 06:51:36 pmQuoteSo that pole goes directly to the grid and not directly connected or influenced by other poles shared with the public.If there is interference from the grid that affects everybody shouldn't he might as well isolate it and install sine wave inverters with with banks of capacitors to smoothen it out a bit.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 09:05:46 pm
content: 0.01% THD inverters and DC power banks. Thanks for making my first million

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 09:25:26 pm
content: Capacitor hackers and super cable fanatics just highlight their foolishnessA true audiophile would hire the whole orchestra, no wires attached

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 10:34:34 pm
content: Like this one the Dave once tweeted.https://twitter.com/Koko_Prodanov/status/1209979438940741635QuoteQuote5 star reviews:104 star reviews:4I see it has got multi colour leds on there too see picture.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2020, 05:54:28 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 27, 2020, 09:05:46 pmThis comes close as a starting point.https://emona.com.au/products/electronic-test-measure/power-supplies/pcr-4000m.htmlUsed by AC/DC to ensure their Marshall amps always have a consistent input voltage.

author: pcolbeck
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 12:17:27 pm
content: Peter Walker who started QUAD the high end British amp and speaker company once forgot to take speaker cable to a show. He sent one of his guys to a local DIY shop to buy some electric lawnmower cable and used that. For weeks journalists form the HiFi press were waxing lyrical about the amazing special orange speaker cable QUAD were using and how great it sounded before Peter spilled the beans. His opinion was that all speaker cable needed to be was decent quality copper and thick enough not to cause too much impedance. Don't think he would have had much time for cable costing thousands per metre.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 02:33:44 pm
content: I wonder what the electrical charateristics of high end speaker wire wiould be if tested on a network analyzer.Likely the exact same as any other similar sized wire.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2020, 03:27:12 pm
content: When I moved into my current house decades ago, I needed to run the cables from the amplifier down to the basement and then back up to the speakers on the opposite wall. I went to the hardware store for 2x14AWG SO cable of sufficient length. The kid at the store asked me (out of curiosity) what I was using it for. When I told him, he asked "Where are your speakers, in Schaumburg?"

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2020, 12:51:24 am
content: The only time I would not use random copper wire of sufficient thickness for the distance is if I wanted a flat cable like to run under carpet. Then I would use ribbon cable which allows the interesting option of wiring every other wire in parallel for a true low impedance transmission line.But my default cable is lamp cord.