arduiNO or arduiYES - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PerranOak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:53:37 pm
content: Should there be a separate Arduino section in the forum?

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:54:45 pm
content: no

author: PerranOak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 03:56:36 pm
content: RoGeorge - I've just put a poll on the post. Exercise your right and vote too. Cheers.I'm posing the question only because, having resisted for years, I have finally succumbed to using one.It's just for fast solutions where I can't be @rsed to go through the PIC route for a vague idea, etc.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 04:45:25 pm
content: To discover Arduino topics on a given site only, a Google search specifying "site:eevblog.com" besides the search words might help, like this:https://www.google.com/search?q=arduino+whatever+site:eevblog.com

author: ChristofferB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2020, 11:57:30 pm
content: IMO the real strength of the EEVblog forums is that it is so active.Nothing is more soul sucking than a dead forum where it takes weeks for replies to roll in.Every time you split up a subforum into multiples you also divide out the traffic. I think that's more detrimental to the forum than what would be gained.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:15:39 am
content: Quote from: ChristofferB on August 11, 2020, 11:57:30 pmOP is proposing a new section, like test equipment, repairs, etc... one that says ARDUINO.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:26:16 am
content: There comes a point where topic categorisation becomes more detrimental than helpful. Being far too specific simply separates information that might be related - especially when you are talking about the diverse membership and interests you find here.This is just one aspect:Quote from: ChristofferB on August 11, 2020, 11:57:30 pmSo, in this case, I'm on the "No" side.... but I don't mind the question being asked.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:38:07 am
content: Arduino doesn't even refer to a specific platform anymore. I don't see any good reason to consider them separate from other microcontrollers.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:40:23 am
content: Sections already exist for virtually any issue you could have with arduino projects. I'd say use them or switch to teensy and head to their forums.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 02:29:14 am
content: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 04:41:12 am
content: I said "no" becauseArduino Forumsalready exist and have millions of posts. Most seem to be noobs with frustrating posts - no schematic, no pics, it's a loose wire or "here is code, why no work?"

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 06:46:51 am
content: I barely see any Arduino-specific threads here.It would only add another item on the subforum list to scroll past, which is already is quite long.

author: gooligumelec
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:12:49 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 12, 2020, 12:38:07 amVery true. Beyond a brand name, it's hard to define these days. "Group of platforms that share an IDE?"QuoteI don't think of them as microcontrollers, so wouldn't have gone looking there. To me, they're dev boards. Again, hard to define.Either way, my vote's no.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:27:11 am
content: YES -- but only to keep it separate from other topics as Arduino projects tend to be of a beginner level (not all of them, but many of them are.)This is not an endorsement or support for the Arduino platform.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:42:26 am
content: At the risk of receiving still more hate,I'd suggest No, however if the decision is yes, I'd ask that it be split into two halves - software/coding problems and hardware interface questions.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 08:05:48 am
content: 43oh.com used to be a great forum for MSP430 stuff. Then among came Energia (an Arduino port for MSP430) and killed it. I voted "No", but might be persuaded for a "Yes" if it could be hidden or muted.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 08:23:17 am
content: I voted "No" to get them & their Arduinos off my lawn!!

author: PerranOak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:32:37 am
content: I have to admit to a little Arduino snobbishness. This is why it took so long for me to get one and I still feel a little ashamed.However, another way to think about a separate area like this is that it would pull all the pesky Arduino questions into one "corral".

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 10:40:38 am
content: Quote from: magic on August 12, 2020, 06:46:51 amExactly! Just add "Arduino" to the subject and everyone knows what a thread is about.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 11:12:30 am
content: Quote from: PerranOak on August 12, 2020, 10:32:37 amNo it wouldn't- at least without a lot of moderator intervention to move topics -because newbies either don't know enough to care and dump their unimaginatively titled question in whatever vaguely appropriate area they first arrive in, (hopefully not necroposting), or don't have enough experience to make a judgement call on whether their issue is a general electronic circuit design issue, is generic to any MCU, or is really Arduino specific.IMHO the only hope would be some sort of topic tagging system which SMF doesn't really do- although there are addons that encourage/enforce topic prefixes -which if no tags were selected, suggested some based on topic content, and also suggested alternative subforums for new topics based on the tags.It would still probably be a real mess, and cool features come at a price that isn't always obvious up front, e.g. the recent mess with attachments which coincidentally or not, appeared fairly soon after an addon that enhanced inlining of attached images was installed, so any such ideas should be considered with a large dose of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"Anyway, who uses subforums other than when digging for old topics or starting a new one? I do most of my reading through the links:Hello Ian.MShow unread posts since last visit.Show new replies to your posts.August 12, 2020, 11:00:33 am

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 11:52:27 am
content: What's wrong with the "Embedded Computing" section?

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 12:33:51 pm
content: Quote from: PerranOak on August 12, 2020, 10:32:37 amAny recent examples of those?Either nobody posts Arduino stuff here or I'm scarily good at not noticing things I don't care aboutBTW, I rarely venture to the 'microcontrollers' subforum so there is that.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 01:23:25 pm
content: You'll find Arduino related topics usually in "Beginners", "Projects, Designs, and Technical Stuff", "Microcontrollers", "Embedded Computing" and "Programming". They are all over the place, but not abundant.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 01:33:26 pm
content: If you create a new topic. call it 'Bad Design examples' and shove it in there.

author: SerieZ
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 02:20:43 pm
content: I do not believe just because Arduino popularized Microcontroller for hobbyists I don't think it warrants its own subforum.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 02:32:38 pm
content: EE community should be thankful to Arduino for having all the low cost development board options today. It made more positive impacts than negative in the educational and hobby marketplace, and impacted also the whole microcontroller industry as well. Some say teensy is OK but Arduino is not, teensy exists thanks to Arduino (I am not talking about the Arduino branded boards, but about the whole ecosystem)

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 03:01:01 pm
content: This thread isn't about Arduino love/hate stories.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 04:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: TK on August 12, 2020, 02:32:38 pmlow cost , or low quality ? or both ?Arduino may be low cost but (hardware) design wise it's pretty poor. And that's the original one. we're not even talking the cheapo knock-offs.insufficient rail capacitance, bad layout , crap regulators, no protection anywhere , weirdo pin spacing.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 05:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 12, 2020, 04:52:45 pmGood enough for 99% of the use cases and you are still looking only at the HW aspect, not seeing the whole picture. It had huge impact on STEM education. Schools spent thousands on expensive Lego robot kits and now they can spend the same and reach a much bigger audience.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 06:14:09 pm
content: I voted No purely because it doesn't seem relevant, there is no Beaglebone or RPi subsections, or BluePill etc so why create one for Arduino, then what, break it out into Mega, Nano, Uno etc? I think it'd get too convoluted too fast.Plus you have a TON of resources about Arduino already, Adafruit is probably your best bet for a library as first port of call for example.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:17:36 pm
content: Quote from: TK on August 12, 2020, 05:33:35 pmi'm not denying any of that.The problem is that i see many interns showing up with 'arduino' experience and when they are tasked to make a real design where they have to use the bare chip , come up with their own schematics they fuck it up royally.They can't even draw a proper schematic or make a correct symbol let alone a correct footprint. They think that the arduino schematics are the way a schematic should be drawn. With wires going through components. And resistors with just two netnames on the pins.And we haven't even tackled the proper circuitry , only the way it is drawn. Missing and wrong decoupling caps, no clue where to put what , no idea how to scale the power supply. They cobble up something on the bench made from shields and grove and whatnot and then they capture this into a schematic. And it's unreliable as anything. They spend more time troubleshooting and respinning their board because they miss the basics. Any examples they have been given are crap designs.yesterday i had a request to create a component for a teensy4.1 What a royal fuck up that is...There is no documentation that shows pin locations so how can i make a footprtin. oh well, its 3.6 based , yes but there's also two new connectors so where are they ? and what is the pinout for those.I had to cobble it together from github , some forum where someone gracefully had made a STEP model ( i hope it is right .... ) , pictures of the board backside so i could at least see the signal names there. It took me more than an hour to find all the bits of info needed. and that was just so i could position 64 pads ... Then we come to pin numbering. This thing doesn't use pin numbers. They simply name the pins. You can not do that ! you would expect pin1 = VCC , pin 2 = this , pin 3 that. no pin VCC is VCC. pin GND is GND . so how the hell do i line up with a footprint ( you need numbers or letter/number for bga. using just VCC and GND doesn't work. Altium has no issue with it, but other tools do have problems. duplicate pin names are not allowed. ( many analysis programs barf on that as they can't show you where exactly the issue lies. Every pad on the board needs to be uniquely identifyable. ) When parts are made for a central library they have to be compatible with the tools in use , and there is more than just your little schematic. That part may get picked up by someone who sticks it on a complex board and wants to run signal integrity , or power analysis. And those tools may bark if that part is not made right.So pin 1 is vcc, pin 2 is 0 .. what the hell ? can't we call that GPIO0 ? in the end i encoded it as GPIO0 / TX1 / SDA yadda .. ok all is well.SO , i got a call : Why did you do that ? why did you not name the pins like in the drawing. You know VCC , 0 , 1 , 2 ? so it lines up ?Well, cause those drawings are made by people that have no clue how things work in real life. This stuff spread this as the plague and it becomes 'acceptable design practice' and then we waste oodles of time and frustration correcting that... oh, but you have the source. big effing whoop. Source i have to spend hours collecting from various places, that is frequently outdated and selfconflicting.I was ready to jump out the window. I am tired of such nonsense.Same thing with Arduino. Why o why do they have a non standard pitch between the connectors ? you cant even stick this thing in a breadboard. And why is the USB port not properly protected ? It creaks and violates USB at so many levels ( power draw for example )I'm all for making this stuff more accessible , but damn it , show and do it right ! It's not that hard. Now we have a situation where everyone gets free Phillips screws and flat head screwdrivers. Yes it can work , but it is not how it is supposed to work !

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2020, 02:03:18 am
content: In general, it's a bad idea to start a new topic until the subject starts to overwhelm the closest matching existing topic. That isn't the case yet.It's not like Arduino doesn't have its own, very active, forum.I've been relatively happy to have mostly "relatively advanced" arduino questions show up here.

author: PerranOak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 11:03:33 am
content: Well, the answer is clear: no Arduino section, end of!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2020, 06:46:20 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on August 12, 2020, 04:41:12 amThen there's the problem (already discussed every time some people want to add a new section) that questions are often not specific to the category in question. Many questions about microcontrollers already are programming questions, for instance. If you add a specific Arduino section, you'll just spread out information, and since many people here are likely not much interested in Arduino, it would actually decrease the probability of more general questions being answered.