Chinese rocket booster soon to enter uncontrolled crash! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: targit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 07:06:16 am
content: "Experts say it wont pose a risk to people" so, no storey at all then. China landed perfect first go on mars, they seem to know how this stuff works.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 07:45:29 am
content: Yes and no. They have some history here.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 08:50:28 am
content: Quote from: MT on July 28, 2022, 02:07:22 amYou know that “uncontrolled” atmospheric reentry is how many, many satellites and space vehicles are disposed of? Satellites are routinely de-orbited by nudging them out of orbit with a thruster so they’ll fall into the atmosphere and burn up.This is as shocking and newsworthy as, for example, reporting that “farmers put FERMENTED COW FECES onto crops!”

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 09:07:51 am
content: Quote from: targit on July 28, 2022, 07:06:16 amLike routinely landing rocket booster remains fuming with toxic UDMH onto their own villageshttps://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1198173691378618368

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 09:11:02 am
content: The "cow feces" thing is actually not that simple anymore.It takes paperwork BS to spread BS on your cropsproperly

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 09:18:38 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 28, 2022, 08:50:28 amSatellites are nudged in a controlled way so their unburnt remains land somewhere at ocean. Chinese rocket remains often land on populated areas.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 09:34:04 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 28, 2022, 08:50:28 amWhen it falls on your house or even on you, you will squeak differentlyCertainly when the latter is the casehttps://www.space.com/space-junk-rocket-debris-reentry-riskhttps://www.newscientist.com/article/2327922-10-per-cent-chance-falling-rockets-will-hit-someone-in-next-decade/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 09:45:12 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on July 28, 2022, 09:34:04 amI didn’t “squeak”. I just said it’s not noteworthy.

author: jogri
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 10:15:13 am
content: Yes, it isn't exactly noteworthy if a normal satellite re-enters the atmosphere, but there are two main differences between those and the Long March 5 reentry:- satellites pretty much always use thrusters for a controlled de-orbit burn, you can somewhat control where they're going to land and most of them are directed towards the space graveyard in the south pacific since that spot is a few thousand km away from everything. You absolutely can not control the Long March 5, so no one knows when and where it's going to land (and due to complicated aerodynamics you can't calculate it either)- satellites and like 98% of everything else that re-enters the atmosphere is significanty lighter than a Long March 5. That thing is the only heavy lift vehicle that's single stage to orbit, meaning that the entire first stage comes crashing down from orbit and not just a small second stage motor.This thing is a massive 21t hulk of metal that is going to crash somewhere and it's pretty much guaranteed that quite a few massive parts are not going to burn up and land somewhere. So yeah, i'd call it noteworthy.

author: bw2341
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 01:39:26 pm
content: This is a single-stage version of the Long March 5 (designation: CZ-5B) use to launch modules for the Tiangong space station.Since the massive stage achieves orbital velocity, it has an uncontrolled reentry. For a controlled reentry, the stage would need to have extra deorbit rocket motors and propellant.Other rockets avoid this by having a multi-stage design. The heaviest first stage is suborbital so the danger zone is known in advance. When launching from coastal launch pads, you can plan for a safe reentry into remote open water.Upper stages do reach orbit and they are a hazard. If there is no reserve propellant remaining, they stay in orbit, adding to the space debris problem. They may eventually reenter uncontrolled. The risk is much lower than a CZ-5B since they are much smaller.If there is extra propellant available, it is used to restart the main engine for a controlled reentry into remote open water. Upper stages usually have restart capability since it is often needed for many payloads. No additional hardware is needed.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2022, 02:08:01 pm
content: From 2020:An out-of-control Chinese rocket may have dumped debris in Africa after falling from space (https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/13/21256484/china-rocket-debris-africa-uncontrolled-reentry-long-march-5b)And from 2021:Huge Chinese rocket booster falls to Earth over Arabian Peninsula (https://www.space.com/chinese-rocket-booster-long-march-5b-space-junk-crash)

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 06:54:53 pm
content: Not Long March 5, but SpaceX Dragon (launched in 2020): Huge Piece of Space Rocket Falls From Sky and Lands on Sheep Farm (https://www.newsweek.com/huge-piece-space-rocket-falls-sky-lands-sheep-farm-1729111)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 07:01:37 pm
content: I wonder how much atmospheric pollution all those objects falling back to earth create?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 07:22:05 pm
content: Quote from: madires on July 30, 2022, 06:54:53 pmWell, Dragon is not a rocket but spacecraft. Reading the news source there is no definite answer part of what it really is, just speculation.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/space-junk-found-in-nsw-snowy-mountains-paddocks-/101277542IMHO those do not look like pieces of Dragon trunk. BTW I would not touch space debris just like that because it may contain UDMH or some other nasty stuff.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 07:29:55 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 30, 2022, 07:01:37 pmBarely any in a grand scheme of things.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 07:32:10 pm
content: As of today it's claimed some parts fell in Indian ocean the where the rest fell is so far unknown but could apparently be seen over Malaysia.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 07:35:41 pm
content: Chinese rocket crashes into village!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2022, 08:36:09 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 30, 2022, 07:01:37 pmIs that a trick question?"This thing is a massive21thulk of metal"Probably less than the total accumulation from meteorites. OTOH 21t is only a fraction of the original mass of the rocket and much of that (fuel and more) gets burned up during the launch and the reentry of the first, second, (and third? and fourth?) stages. Any spacecraft that uses retrorockets will add even more "pollution" to the "atmosphere".I have seen numerous complaints based on people speculating about effects on the ocean and the atmosphere of huge quantities of the ammonium perchlorate used in the solid rocket boosters used on the space shuttle and other rockets. I don't know if their concerns are valid or not.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2022, 10:47:37 am
content: Luckily fallen into the sea:25-ton Chinese rocket debris crashes to Earth over Indian Ocean (https://www.space.com/chinese-long-march-5b-rocket-space-debris-crash)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 10:32:48 am
content: Here you go, another Chinese space junks fallen to Australia that is not widely reported or at least not generated so much noise, wonder why ?Wait .. its not Chinesium junks, imagine if it is.... no wonder not so much noise.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 03:35:17 pm
content: At least Russians crashes their space junk at their leased enclave!

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2022, 07:12:09 pm
content: It looks like rocket science is very difficult. After 50 years of tinkering one would think they had it all under control

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 03:23:52 am
content: The Chinese have been at it for about 2000 years!If they can't control the reentry of their space craft, it makes you wonder if their rather fantastic claims about their "hypersonic missiles" are worth the rice paper that they're printed on.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 04:19:13 am
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 02, 2022, 03:23:52 amExperience with Chinese products teaches that they can make functional stuff if they must, but they don't give a fuck and cut every imaginable corner

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 07:08:45 am
content: Update: some debris was found in the near of villages on Borneo:-https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1554113609248161792- Metal object, said to be from rocket debris, found near Sarawak-West Kalimantan border (https://www.theborneopost.com/2022/08/01/metal-object-said-to-be-from-rocket-debris-found-near-sarawak-west-kalimantan-border/)

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 12:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: magic on August 02, 2022, 04:19:13 amI'm not to sure of the first part. They have designed a few functional jet fighters, high speed missiles (and other items) that show some potential but in too few numbers to make a difference in a real war. Also the engine reliability and the avionics are horrible and in fact, they're having to buy jet engines from Russia. The same with their counterfeit chip production, they kinda sorta work but not to the standards that we expect.The 2nd part of your statement however should be the quote of the day! I keep that fact in mind ANYTIME that I consider buying ANYTHING made in China.Chinese products both military and civilian still have a LONG ways to go both in actual effectiveness and in reliability and durability before they are a true military or economic threat to the West. Uncontrolled rockets crashing on our heads, global pollution from burning E-scrap in the open, shipping toxic food stuffs to the west, and highly contaminated rivers flowing into the worlds oceans not withstanding.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 01:18:43 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 02, 2022, 12:53:27 pmYet, you're using made in China gadgets to post this, heck, probably even your underwear is made in China, don't you have any pride & conscience ?Take if off and dump it all, NOW !

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 10:09:44 pm
content: The Chinese can make decent underware, at least while they're being supervised by Hanes. I just opened a new pack yesterday.FYI since you're interested.LOL! No! I just looked at the package and they were made in VietNam! I wonder how the Chinese feel about their jobs being outsourced to VietNam?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2022, 11:36:54 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on August 02, 2022, 12:53:27 pmI think it's a mistake to assume that. Russia was behind the US in most ways for many years, but they were not as far behind as we liked to think. They were quite adept at making aircraft and tanks that were extremely rugged and effective and in large numbers, if not as high tech as those made in other parts of the world. China I expect is similar, they make a lot of junk for selling at the lowest possible prices, but that is not because they lack the ability to make high quality equipment. I have worked with some very skilled engineers who came from China, there are more like them that stayed in their homeland.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2022, 12:01:06 am
content: The comparison between China and at least the Soviet Union ("Russia" has become pretty different from this past time now) is rather relevant. And one thing they have in common is the communist party carefully planning strategy.Planned economy always ends up holding back innovation for reasons that are now well known and studied.While the way China currently plans its economy is not quite the same as what Soviet Union was doing, both are still communist approaches in essence, and I do think China *is* going to hit a brickwall sooner or later. But I do agree that they're way better off than what most of us westerners tend to believe.