Had a whoopsie with Framework mainboard - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 10:25:33 am
content: So my chaotic desk bit me pretty hard in the back side yesterday. I was testing a custom ribbon cable adapter to run my own LCD from the FW eDP output - it was the third iteration (after two stupid design mistakes) and it worked, yay!Then the computer stopped booting. Proceeded to begin unplugging everything but couldn't get it going. Fans not spinning up. Post codes reports fans not responding and CPU not reaching power state 0. I do get power to connected USB devices, and I do get lights.I then find a small bit of unused solder under the mainboard, and then I find a small scorch mark next to a (I think) capacitor on the board - so I'm guessing I caused a short.I have a ticket open with FW at the moment to see what they think, but I have no idea if they do board-level repair.So really just opening up a topic here to see how much I screwed the pooch on this one. Is there any chance the damage is going to be localised to the components where it looks like the damage was done? I have had a look over the rest of the board and cant see anything that immediately looks 'bad'. Or is it pretty likely this has fried something further down the line?If by any chance replacing the cap in question might fix it I could have a crack at this myself (assuming I have an otherwise dead board). I could have a look for someone with more expertise than myself to take a look at it or I can just accept the loss, sell it on eBay for parts and replace.Here is an image of the region near the solder piece I found, showing the potentially damaged cap (if it is indeed a cap, I'm far from an expert)

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 03:30:02 pm
content: In a life lesson about leaving things well enough alone, I thought I would clean up the area with a little IPA and some blue roll and this has resulted in me pulling the component clean off of the board.Is this realistically repairable by anyone for the circa £500 value of the board?

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 04:31:26 pm
content: It seems that the cleaning did not break it more than it was already. In that respect I think you did nothing wrong.It is very likely a capacitor indeed, however the value is unknown. So that is going to be somewhat a trial and error if you want to replace it. Find out to what it was connected and search for datasheets of the chip(s) and you might have an indication.It is very possible it is still good enough to be measured. But in any case replace it because its integrity is compromised now.As it came off the board somewhat easily it was likely not making good contact anymore at least on one side. If you're a little lucky this is the only fault.Very difficult to tell if something else than the capacitor would have died.You have nothing to loose by replacing it.

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2023, 06:07:37 pm
content: Thanks, thats kinda what I figured, although I'm not sure I would be able to get a new cap soldered onto what remains of those pads.If the manufacturer can tell me the value of the cap I might give it a go, but I have contacted a board-level repair tech place (Kris-fix) to take a look at it for me, and in the mean time I have ordered a new board as I imagine this is going to take some time!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 02:39:19 pm
content: Have you tried to power the board up now the cap is disconnected?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2023, 02:52:49 pm
content: Quote from: No_Shorty on December 15, 2023, 06:07:37 pmPads are absolutely unaffected, what you see is metal plating that was torn off from MLCC remaining soldered to the pads. If you still have the capacitor, you should be able to measure its capacitance that should not be affected by tearing off some horizontal plating.

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 12:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on December 16, 2023, 02:39:19 pmYes. A light came on and then turned off and now i get zilch. Hopefully no more damage done.@Wraper:I did try but i can't get a reading. It looks like one side of the cap has no contact left on it.

author: Swake
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2023, 07:38:21 pm
content: Follow the traces to what that capacitor was connected to. Discovering what it does from the surrounding components and we might be able to guess the value.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 12:15:54 am
content: Framework is supposedly OEM'd by Compal. How ironic that this is from a company that allegedly strongly supports right-to-repair, yet I can't seem to find any schematics (yet). But I can find plenty of schematics for other mobos.I had no luck finding what a QrFGD is either. It might be a Silergy part, given that qRxxx is an SY8291F.

author: fzabkar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2023, 01:58:06 am
content: Quote from: amyk on December 20, 2023, 12:15:54 amyQxyz is a Silergy SY8388BRH. It looks to have a similar pinout. ()https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2207201830_Silergy-Corp-SY8388ARHC_C5110279.pdfhttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?strip=1&q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fwww.semiee.com%2Ffile%2FSILERGY%2FSILERGY-SY8388D3RHC.pdfThe datasheet recommends 10uF and 0.1uF capacitors on Vin.

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2023, 11:38:12 pm
content: Yea i don't think FW provide a schematic yet. I do think they will in the future... Their 'excuse' as it were is that they are a. Very small team and focussing on other things at the moment. Idk how simple 'releasing a schematic' is - if they need to clear it with board partners etc.I'll take a look at traces in the new year. But i have been in touch with Kris fix Germany (I'm a fan of their GPU YT repair channel) and FW themselves have requested further pictures - not just outright refused the repair.I'll see what FW say, but if they can't repair I'm inclined to send it to Krisfix rather than attempt myself given my limited experience. Unless anyone knows a good UK company i should contact.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2023, 08:10:52 pm
content: Quote from: No_Shorty on December 23, 2023, 11:38:12 pmWhen most laptops and other HW are just, at most, minor respins of the reference designs then I would suspect there's a lot of NDA and/or licensing action which could cause issues.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2023, 08:17:28 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on December 20, 2023, 12:15:54 amhttps://knowledgebase.frame.work/availability-of-schematics-and-boardviews-BJMZ6EAuSupporting repair and publishing the entire design publically aren't the same thing, as much as we might like them to be.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 01:42:32 am
content: When they're just using the same reference designs anyway, and you can find tons of schematics for other laptops based on the same platform, and yet they're the ones who explicitly don't want to release them nor haven't had their schematics leak yet, it's nothing but hot air, or as they like to call it these days, virtue-signaling.At least they could just say what they're saying, and then have the schematics show up on some Vietnamese forum...

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 09:54:31 am
content: Quote from: amyk on December 25, 2023, 01:42:32 amAgree that they're likely no different to any number of other reference designs but probably none of the schematics that 'show up on some Vietnamese forum' are there legally, they'll be leaked and likely regarded as commercially sensitive, covered by licencing agreements, NDA etc. so it's entirely likely Framework are 'just' adhering to their NDA and/or licence agreements.Unless of course you have proof the schematics on those forums are released by the manufacturers?

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 01:37:24 pm
content: Most likely that component was one of the vast majority of decoupling caps you find on boards. Killer is you find them knocked off from poor handling of computer adapter cards and generally, its a "so what". But when the board heats up to a temperature to unsolder a cap, most likely other components were damaged, fuseable links blown, etc. To get both sides of a cap to unsolder means the rail (the cap was protecting) got hot enough. That cap came off right before other damage was done. Odds of repair are low, unfortunately unless you find a voltage converter someplace on the board that gave up the smoke too?Sorry, but most of us have been there, i shake so bad from nerve problems that I'm lucky i dont see more smoke just probing.Jerry

author: No_Shorty
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:26:25 am
content: Thanks all, discussions about FWs intent with schematics are welcome, I really do hope they buck the expectations and release them in the same matter as Fairphone (if I have that right).FW themselves have confirmed that it is not repairable by them. With a fairly amusing "I am afraid to say we cannot replace the board under warranty, and it has been assessed as customer induced damage". Well yes... I told them that from the outset 😅.I have contacted Krisfix Germany who will take it in for repair. I've been incredibly impressed with their YT videos on GPU repair - frankly beyond anything I even thought possible for board repair, but that may be my own ignorance. They are happy to take a look, hopefully any repair (if possible) costs less than just replacing, I'm keen for it not to be waste if possible.