Minimal set of the equipment needed for a HAM enthusiast - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2025, 10:02:13 pm
content: Hello HAMs and not only!Before asking my "Core Question" please give me a big picture of what electronics measuring equipment one can get away with when working with not too much demanding RF projects: imagine you are building one of the classic tube transceivers, say from one of the early 1960-s issues of HAM Magazines.Core Question: Please help me decide on the main thing among all possible HAM Radio measuring equipment - a real spectrum analyzer (SA). Is that a must or simply a "good to have thing" for an occasional (or an average but not the hardcore by any means) HAM Radio enthusiast who plans to investigate RF projects in terms of building modular pieces of the RF equipment as well as some classic tube/transistor/hybrid transceivers?HAM heroes of the past (or majority of them) who grew up on the articles and books by Doug DeMaw, Joe Carr and Wes Hayward surely did not have access to then quite expensive pieces of the equipment like the SA and yet they managed to build decent transceivers for HAM communication.Can the real SA for instance be substituted by some combo of less expensive but still valid measuring devices for typical HAM Radio builder/designer tasks? (By "real" I still mean less expensive but well received Rigol and Siglent models.)What will one be seriously lacking in his transceiver building/setup process when the SA is missing from the workbench?I mean, what tasks exactly will suffer from the absence of the SA from the workbench?- Filter characterization?- Amplifier gain response?- All of them which are definitely plenty more than I've just mentioned?Finally, currently there are quite affordable but of course limited in their capabilities devices such as TinySA and Nano VNA. Can I do successfully most of the HAM building/experimentation tasks with a set of those two and the typical DSO and couple of DMMs on top (or perhaps more correctly the TinySA and Nano VNA on top of the typical DSO and couple of DMMs combo) ?

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 04:48:49 am
content: A spectrum analyzer is required to ensure spurious emission are within limits.One clue may be, that 50 years ago, those spurious emission regulations did not exist in law.A VNA makes analyzing antenna constructions dead simple. Other methods can be used for antenna analysis, but are more time consuming, and may take time away from the microphone (which may or may not be an issue, depending on your sociability compared to technical skills).

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 07:54:14 am
content: I don't think a spectrum analyzer will help you become a ham radio amateur...What you really need to start with is a good radio receiver.I suggest starting with a cheap RTL-SDR v3 or RTL-SDR v4 dongle - it allows you to receive stations and see the spectrum.Then, you can buy a professional radio receiver with good sensitivity.Once you're familiar with the basics, you can get a ham radio transceiver, obtain a license, and start experimenting with antennas.At this point, you will need a NanoVNA.Then, you can experiment with building RF power amplifiers, filters and other stuff.And at that stage, you might need a spectrum analyzer - consider getting a tinySA Ultra.

author: asis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:25:52 am
content: Hi,I don't know from what starting point you will begin your dive and what you will achieve.There are interesting devices with which you can start:https://www.osa103.ru/en/main-page/-http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread.php?34078-%C8%E7%EC%E5%F0%E8%F2%E5%EB%FC%ED%FB%E9-%EF%F0%E8%E1%EE%F0-OSA103-Mini

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 01:02:48 pm
content: Radiolistner has good points.If you are talking about 50 yrs ago, most Hams did not even have a Scope let alone a SA. They did have analog Multimeter. Someone who serviced equipment had a Scope. A TV Teck's scope would typically cost as much as a car. There were other things like signal tracers and grid dip meters. They did have Standing Wave and output Watt Meters commonly. These have been integrated into the transmitter portion of the radio over the years.Today's radios are different, most are now Software Defined, and resemble computers more than radios.I do not know if you wish to build a radio or not. But I would take advantage of the cheap technical advances in electronics including the cheap VNA for antenna work and SA if you are going to attempt RF design.I am a Ham and repair all sorts of radios.First, however, I would get your license by obtaining the study guide for your country. It may help you decide what you wish to do. If you get a cheap SDR as Radiolistner suggests, you will know what to upgrade to. Some people still like to use old tube technologies, some prefer SDR stuff and everything in between.It used to be that a Ham would need the highest Sensitivity of equipment to receive more stations, now it appears that there is an emphasis on Selectivity to separate the ever increasing interference from the desired signal.

author: abeyer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 10:00:50 pm
content: There are two correct answers to any "do I need this?" questions:1. Yes, obviously, and here's the link to the TEA thread.2. No, if you need to ask then you don't have a use case that does require it yet, wait until you do.

author: LaserSteve
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2025, 11:23:32 pm
content: I'd start with a decent Shortwave Receiver with SSB and a proper S Meter. I'd put away Carr and Demaw as quaint relics.. Wes Hayward's book on RF design, if you can find a copy, will get you a long way, out to VHf. A decent frequency counter, and a good diode detector + attenuators solves a lot of issues, as does a 200 MHz oscilloscope. I'm not a fan of cheap SDRs.An FT-65R gets you talking to locals who might gladly share what you need from there.73, VHF Communication, QEX, Dubus, and Ham Radio magazine are all archived on the web and blow away most intro booksA good SWL receiver let's you hear your oscillators and spurs. It also gives you access to time stations like WWV, CHU etc.My secret weapon is a family of MRI grade frequency synthesizers by a company known as Programmed Test Sources. A PTS-160 or PTS-250 costs 99$ on EBay and tunes in 1 Hz steps with low spurious noise. Usually have a nice, accurate ovenized 10 Mix clock too. A level seven mixer plus a good PTS and a good IF chain with AM detector can fill in for a SA nicely, especially with a good crystal filter.. Log detector and Milliwatt level power measurement ICs are cheap. There is no reason these days to be blind as a bat at RF, unlike when I started.I have all sorts of modern toys out to 22 GhzOver the years i've done very well, and had more fun, with simple and modest tools, and things like making spurs with a Sierra Microwave harmonic generator module and a PTS, and a 20 dB directional coupler or a SWR Multitester bridge from an old Telco microwave site.Phillips / NXP and Motorola made families of transformer coupled Class AB Amplifiers for CATV and other uses in both 50 and 75 Ohm that can get you say 1/2 Watt from 0-450 Mhz and they go for say 20$ on Ebay. Ie Motorola MHW series. Surprisingly useful, and even the 75 Ohm versions can get you on the air QRP with a serious kick, with excellent linearity etc. I have a few on my bench for tests and as pre-drivers. So, PTS, a MMIc, a mixer, and a MHW and your doing AM from a few Mhz to VHF. Who cares if you have to match to 75 Ohms on the output. Etc.Careful choice of cheap but good tools can get you a long way.One could make an argument for a Frequency Selective Voltmeter at 0-30 Mhz as an awesome multi-tool, but those are rare.In reality something like a Siglent or Rigol SA plus a tracking generator replaces all the above except the receiver, but that's a 1000$ item.As others have said, these days good selectivity is more important.With the exception of Croven in Canada and Krystally in Europe, makers of custom quartz crystals are rare as hen's teeth. that's why Carr and DeMaw can sleep in peace forever.Edit, I should mention the PTS boxes have a long word BCD parallel port in the back that allows very rapid frequency changes, and iEEE / front panel control options. The methodology used has low phase noise.Good LuckSteve

author: rf-fil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 02:44:24 am
content: Those 1960's-era designs won't work anymore. They are subject to very different RF environment.If you are interested for real, the gear depends on what exactly you want to build. If you're serious about transceivers:* At least two, preferably 3, signal generators with phase noise that is much lower than your intended design.* Good quality spectrum analyzer* VNA - The NanoVNA is actually quite good.* Some way to measure noise figure if you're into VHF and above. (Calibrated noise source or, if you've got the funds - a noise figure meter)* If you're really serious, figure out a way to measure phase noise - this one is a rabbit hole on its own.* GPS-disciplined frequency standard* Logic analyzer to debug any I2C / UART / SPI / I2S issues. Can be a DSO with built-in decoders.* Oscilloscope, 100MHz or faster, ideally* Function generator to check your low frequency, audio etc.* A good multimeter or two* A bunch of Mini-Circuits boxes: combiners, filters, attenuators, pre-amps, ...* SMA cables, connectors, adapters,...* SMT rework station, good soldering iron with very fine tips, etc.* Reflow oven if you're assembling the PCBs yourself* Microscope* 0402 / 0603 / 0805 component kits* Electronics tools like cutters, tweezers, etc.* Workshop tools for mechanical jobsBtw, if you don't know what any of these are for, you don't need them.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 05:36:08 am
content: It really depends on what kind of design/construction you want to do. You can do a lot with the old gear that I grew up with (back in the 1960's), but these days for receiver / transmitter / amplifier / filter design I would want an oscilloscope, signal generator, spectrum analyzer, and VNA (or at least a spectrum analyzer with tracking generator). As long as you are working in the HF or VHF region these can be reasonably inexpensive. Don't discount the TinySA or the NanoVNA -- these are "hobby quality" but they are entirely practical. I have three spectrum analyzers, and one of them is a TinySA. All of them are useful, some are better than others for particular measurements. But if you start with the TinySA or the enhanced version you won't regret the purchase. Be sure to get a good assortment of attenuators, connector adaptors, and coax jumpers.Again, you can build stuff with only a DVM (I used an analog Simpson VOM), and building some RF detector probes, but these days the gear is so good, and inexpensive, that if you want to really study RF design you should get the available tools.

author: nanopico
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 03:52:23 pm
content: Maybe offtopic, but... One day, a long time ago, while discussing the Yaesu FP-707 power supply, I asked my Elmer why it didn't have short circuit protection.The answer was that in those days people hadn't learned how to short circuit power supplies.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 06:42:33 pm
content: You should fix a budget.Minimum ($100-200 total) must have, assuming you already have a PC:- soldering iron- DMM- nanoVNA

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 08:29:29 pm
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on March 18, 2025, 06:42:33 pmThis is good, but if you want to look at harmonics, noise, distortion, modulation, power levels, add a spectrum analyzer to that list. The TinySA will be adequate for some of those measurements, but not all, especially not the narrow-band modulation stuff.And if you want to work on oscillators and their stability you need a spectrum analyzer or frequency counter, either one with an external clock reference. Or possibly just a stable receiver, depending on the accuracy you are trying to achieve.It's a black hole that will suck you in deeper and deeper as you discover what interests you. But that's the fun part.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 09:52:00 pm
content: If what you want is to build a radio rx/tx, all you need is a soldering iron, a multimeter and a good design. A good design publication has already taken care of compliance to emissions limits and stuff. All you need is follow the build instructions.When i started I only had a 40W huge tip soldering iron (or was it 60W?), a home brewed multimeter somebody gifted to me, a bunch of ham radio magazines and my brain. Today i have everything but i am not even nearly as happy as I was back then.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 09:55:47 pm
content: If you are interested in what Ham radio is doing in Estonia perhaps look at some of their meetings.https://www.erau.ee/en/events-and-festsI do not know if these meetings have flea markets as the Hamfests in US do. If they have flea markets, you may be able to get an idea of what equipment is available and the cost. Here is the US items at flea markets have very negotiable prices, so do not feel badly about making a lower offer. That is, once you have some idea of what you want. Here in US there is a lot of test equip at Hamfests as well as radios.There are people who still use 1960 type test equipment to fix and align their radios, this might be fun but newer equipment is much better and very affordable. So be careful about buying old test equipment. It is definitely interesting to see what was available years ago though.....There are a lot of posts in the Other Equipment part of this forum for your soldering iron. Looks like some pretty inexpensive ones are quite good.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 10:02:01 pm
content: BTW, I have seen a lot of people trying to measure the SWR by keying their transmitter output into their VNA or oscilloscope. Learn how to use test equipment, but that may put you off of buildig actual stuff, do not take advices from this thread to build a gigantic Lab that may get between you and soldering. You are welcome.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2025, 10:06:10 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on March 18, 2025, 08:29:29 pmAnd attenuators. Lot's of dB of high power attenuators.

author: flano
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2025, 11:27:21 am
content: If possible, join a local radio club, they often have loan gear or gear for sale. You will also get access to experienced members that can help you.Basic kit for me would be.NanoVNA for building antennas is a great tool.Multimeter, Oscilloscope and Soldering Iron. Basic hand tools.I don't, have a TinySA, but I think they would be a very useful item to learn with before spending lots money on RF test gear.Mike VK4MWL

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 09:46:18 am
content: Thanks much for the answers. Could you please suggest what bandwidth scope is more suitable for building 10 to 160 m HAM communication transceivers?I decide between Rigol 1102Z-E and Rigol 1202Z-E scopes which are 100MHz and 200MHz bandwidth respectively.Rigol 1102Z-E is 100MHz bandwidth with 1 Gsa/s while 1202Z-E is 200MHz bandwidth with the same 1 Gsa/s sampling rate. Will doubling the bandwidth will give me significant advantage for the intended application?

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 10:34:27 am
content: Quote from: LaserSteve on March 17, 2025, 11:23:32 pmSteve, could please clarify the meaning of your comments in the part relevant to Carr and DeMaw please?I have two books by Joe Carr, 'Secrets of RF Circuit Design' (1996) and 'RF Components and Circuits' (2002). Joe is very clear on how to build simple and useful RF circuits. Are those books still relevant in today's HAM environment? If I build that stuff out of the Carr's books will the circuits function just as they were supposed to at the time of books' publishing?BTW, I got myself the Rigol DSA815-TG couple moths ago but since I'm quite far yet from consciously exploring its features (I'm still going through my theoretical RF part, slowly) I wonder if that was the right acquisition for my area of RF-HAM interests (building HAM circuits and transceivers). I also got a TinySA Ultra (unused yet as well) and at this point I'm sometimes tempted to sell the more expensive Rigol DSA815-TG. Would it be a mistake that I will regret about later if I pursue my HAM design interests?Is Rigol DSA815-TG a really more capable and useful SA for the HAM stuff than TinySA Ultra?Finally, I'm more interested in designing/building vacuum tube circuits and transceivers. I like tubes very much. Am I asking for trouble with that idea in mind considering modern HAM requirements? Am I going to have just hard time (in terms or selectivity and sensitivity) or is my tube HAM idea totally useless and unfeasible in today's World?

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 01:43:07 pm
content: I do not know of any HF gear that uses freq above 100 MHz. I have seen some with IF freq of 60 MHz though. You should be fine with a 100 MHz scope. There are lots of posts about scope choice, here is a link to a recent posting about current scope choices:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-oscilloscope-decision/

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2025, 04:47:04 pm
content: If I were to buy an oscilloscope today, I'll buy a 12bit Siglent model, preferably a 4channels one, and unlock the software features later. There are 12bit Rigol scopes, too, also possible to unlock all features, so I won't spend on software options. The hardware is the same in a given line/models, the price difference is from the software options.Other than that, just build whatever you would enjoy the most.Of course it will be relevant, no matter what you build.However, if you just need to have the most performant ham equipment, and interested rather in operating than in making, then just buy the one(s) you like. Chances are it will take a very long time until your own ham builds will beat in performance the top available commercial transceivers.