My Ebay Hantek Buying Hell - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:09:52 pm
content: Hi there,I've been lurking around the boards here for a few weeks reading all the stuff I can find about Hantek and Rigol scopes with a view to buying my first scope and maybe modding it up etc. A friend of mine has a Rigol 1052E which I was able to hack up to 100Mhz very easily thanks to a post I came across round here when researching HanteksLong story short in the end I decided to go for a Hantek DSO5102B - the best I could afford for my budget (£250) - unfortunately I made the silly mistake of ordering one from a seller on ebay from Hong Kong. What an absolute mistake! I've had nothing but grief since I laid my eyes on that listing. Some my fault for being too hasty but the rest has been sheer avoidable hell.Stupidly thinking to myself that I'd thought of everything, I hastily placed my order with the seller on Feb 17th. Out of all the listings on Ebay this one had the best price with the quickest dispatch (within 1 day of cleared payment) and delivery between 25th Feb and 4th March. By Feb 18th the scope hadn't been shipped so I contacted the seller to see if they were planning on shipping it that day. By Feb 19th the item hadn't been shipped and I'd had no reply from the seller.In the mean time I'd been further reading and had come across some rather nasty stories regarding buying scopes from Hong Kong - particularly how they were offering free shipping to certain countries and then charging an additional $40 for shipping. I'd also read of issues people have had with warranties and quite frankly all of this and the fact the item hand't been dispatched yet put me off.So on the 19th of Feb, I contacted the seller and told them to cancel the order and refund the money and that in a nutshell I wanted to order it somewhere else local instead.At some point on the same day (Feb 19th) I conveniently got a response from the seller appologising for not responding and stating that he had shipped the item and provided a DHL tracking number and a little message stating he had marked the item down in value to $49 for shipping purposes. Needless to say my brain went into immediate worry mode. Firstly it appeared I had missed my opportunity to cancel but also that being DHL I was expecting all sorts of customs issues owing to the falsely declared value.At this point I did nothing. I didn't even respond. I didn't see the point if he had shipped it already. I'd just got to suck it and see and then deal with returning it.So, I took the tracking number and tried it in the DHL tracking system but nothing came up. I presumed at that point it was too early. I've never dealt with DHL before so I don't know what I should see or when.Two days later, 21st Feb the tracking number finally works in DHL and what should I see but DHL tracking telling me the parcel was picked up from the seller on the 21st!What's wrong with that I hear you ask? Well, I issued a request to cancel the sale through ebay on the 19th and the seller responded to that very cancellation request stating it had been dispatched when clearly it hadn't. Not only that but he had taken it upon himself to fraudulently claim the item was worth less than it actually was. Rather than listen to my instructions he thought I'll tell him it's been shipped, give him a tracking number and he'll think it's too late to cancel - and he was right - that's what happened.Fast forward to yesterday 23rd Feb and the item is now within reach but is being held pending a DHLrelease chargeransom (which is conveniently the same everywhere I read of £16 no matter the value of the item). And if you think that's the end of it, OH NO!Seeing that the item was being held to ransom, last night I contacted the seller to finally lodge my complaint that he'd disregarded my request to cancel and that I'd clearly cancelled in time before the item was physically shipped, that I had proof of all of this and that I wont be accepting it and that I want a refund. Needless to say this morning there were no replys from the seller so I looked to ebay to help.What a waste of time.To make matters worse, at the time I ordered, I didn't have enough funds in the bank account associated with our paypal acount (my girlfriend and I share an ebay and paypal account but it's connected to her card and bank) so I paid through the ebay account, using the paypal form but with my own debit card stupidly thinking I'd still get the same protection. WRONG... That's just the excuse they need to wash their hands of the matter. Ebay wont even discuss the matter. There's no option to raise a dispute of any sort. They tell me to see paypal. Because I paid on my card there is no paypal account it's a guest payment. At this point I ring paypal and ask them why I'm not covered. They tell me first I need to create my own paypal account for the card I paid with else they can't deal with it. So I do this and then they tell me basically I'm screwed. I should just accept the item and pay the customs money even though I can prove 100% I cancelled before the item was even shipped.As far as paypal are concerned the transaction through ebay is nothing to do with them even though I have evidence on ebay that I cancelled within good time. And of course ebay are washing their hands by passing it off to paypal. So all in all, ZERO protection from them even though it was a registered ebay account and all the evidence lies therein. At that point in time I went off for a think.Then earlier this afternoon while I was out, I get a phone call from my mum saying that DHL tried delivering and wanted £16 so when I got home a couple of hours ago, I rang them to inform them of the situation and asked how I could get the item returned to the sender. Aparently I either have to accept it, contact the seller to recall it or keep refusing it until it's returned to sender automatically in 30 days. The problem here is that if I don't accept the item now it will dissapear back into transit and I'll have no proof it ever got returned and so will lose any chance of a refund.I explained to the DHL rep that I had initally ordered the item but had cancelled 2 days before DHL picked it up for shipping and that the seller had given a false declaration / value for the item and that I wasn't comfortable with that idea. I explained that I'd tried since to contact the seller who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth and all they could advise me to do was to either pay and accept the item or wait 30 days and I'll never see it again.So, I get back on the phone to paypal to re-appeal my case and explain that DHL have informed me I need to accept it or get it returned but to get it returned would mean I have no proof it was returned.Paypal informed me that I would have no protection at all in that case and again made it clear there was nothing they could or would do since the item is pending delivery and I'm refusing it.The paypal rep did suggest that I either pay the ransom or do a charge back on my visa debit so that's what I've been forced to do.I rang my bank last of all and explained the situation to them and they've requested a charge back but I'm still not out of the woods. The charge back can take up to a week and I've got a £250 scope floating around between DHL and my house and it's looking like I'm going to be forced to pay the ransom and accept delivery or lose it altogether. The problem is if I accept the delivery, it looks like I'm trying to have my cake and eat it. I've requested a charge back but I've had the item. The seller will say I've accepted delivery therefore I've had the item when in reality I've got absolutely no choice in the matter. I either pay it or lose out.So that's where I'm at right now. A £250 scope I didn't want stuck in the hands of DHL with a ransom on it's head and no means of cancelling the order without it costing me more money for an item I didn't want.I can tell anyone reading this that I'm going to have the last laugh in the long run. I've been utterly honest, I'm not trying to con anyone and I'm getting p00ped all over and I'm not happy.So if I sign for this here scope tomorrow and pay the ransom and I then get the charge back done successfully, Mr Seller is going to be getting a lovely email from me stating if he wants his scope back he can pay all the shipping, all the duties and taxes both ways and any other costs I've incured as a result. See how he likes it!And as for ebay and Paypal, they can both take a running jump from now on. All the money I've put through their hands over the years and the first chance they get to wriggle out of something... Pfft.Disgusting.And for anyone wondering what horrific seller I've been dealing with on ebay, they go by the seller name ameliazhou and if I were anyone thinking of buying from them, I'd avoid them completely.Knowing what I know now I would avoid buying any items above £20 in value from Hong Kong / China in the future. In fact it's made me think twice about ebay and paypal if I'm honest. In this case they offer me no help at all despite the weighted evidence they are willfully ignoring.Ultimately I've been denied my right to cancel and I'm not at all happy. Ebay and Paypal have both let me down despite proof I cancelled this order and now I'm having all this grief.Yes, I should have known better. Less haste, more brain in future. I'm as angry with myself as I am with Ebay, Paypal and this shoddy seller.For anyone reading this, I will update the outcome. I may also if time permits grab screen shots of the emails with the sensitive date removed obviously which shows my instructions to the seller telling them to cancel the order on Feb 19th, the reply from the seller on the same day saying the item had been sent and finally a screen shot of the DHL tracking which states clearly the package was picked up on Feb 21st - 2 days after I cancelled and he responded directly to my cancellation request so he can't deny I cancelled.Cheers! Hope this saves someone else from this hassle. Buy from UK / Europe!!!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:30:31 pm
content: I am sorry to hear about your mishaps. I hope you either end up with a scope you like, or manage to return it without too much of a penalty to pay.However, for my own education: You mention the "right to cancel", which you feel you have been denied in this case. What terms and conditions do grant you that right, when buying from an international seller? I have always been under the assumption that my ebay purchase is a binding contractual commitment, and that the seller is not obliged to accept a cancellation, or a return of the article unless it is damaged.European consumer laws grant non-commercial customers the right to return an item within 14 days. (And hence sellers are happy to cancel an order if you decide against the purchase before it has shipped, to save the shipping cost and hassle.) But these laws don't apply to purchases from overseas, I think. Do ebay's terms define a separate "right to cancel"?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:47:07 pm
content: I'm also sorry to hear of your problems, but wouldn't it have been better to just pay the £16 to get hold of it? The seller marking down the value for customs purposes has probably saved more than that in import duties.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:52:44 pm
content: Hi ebastler and thank you.Sorry, when I say I was denied my right to cancel, what I meant was that the seller has intentionally mislead me into thinking it was too late to cancel the order.When I contacted the seller on Feb 19th via ebay to reqest the order be cancelled he replied the same day and stated it had been dispatched and gave me the tracking number along with telling me he'd declared it's value at $49. All of which without my concent. My last instructions were to cancel the order. He replied to that same cancellation message (so obviously ignoring my request) saying it had been shipped.So from my point of view based on his reply I thought it was too late to cancel and get a refund.In reality, DHL tracking states they didn't pick up the scope from the seller in Hong Kong until Feb 21st so he knowingly lied. He had two days to cancel my order but chose to continue with the sale.Had the scope made it through customs, I would have returned it at his expense owing to this fact.Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place and tomorrow, I can't see that I have much choice other than to pay the DHL ransom and accept it and then it'll go back to the seller with the cost of return shipping, the £16 ransom and any other costs I end up with being added to the refundable amount. By my reckoning, I'm more than in the right here given I clearly cancelled and he chose to wilfully ignore that cancellation.I don't see how he can get out of this? Or why I feel like I'm the one in the wrongI cancelled in good time, he replied to the cancellation message same day saying it had been shipped. DHL tracking shows they didn't collect until 2 days later.Well, lets see what fun and games tomorrow brings because I've since contacted the seller with MY terms and his options.He had better hope that if I sign for the scope tomorrow that the Visa company doesn't refund me else this seller is going to find out what a ransom is. I shouldn't have to resort to this but if they want to play unfair with me then it's fight fire with fire time I guess.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 06:58:45 pm
content: Pay the 16 Quid, get the 'scope. You got off lightly there, customs could have charged you alotmore.(funny how people forget about customs/import charges when they buy stuff "cheap" from China).Now send the seller £250 via paypal.It won't make up for the mess you've created but it will help.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:02:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:52:44 pmHi Mikey,yes, the seller would apparently have had thepossibilityto cancel your order. But I don't think that he wasobligedto do so. He could have replied and told you: "Sorry, we have a deal, I don't accept a cancellation anymore". And if you now approach him to return the scope, he might equally say: "Sorry, the scope is in working order and as described in my ebay listing. I have fulfilled my part of the deal; I hold you to your binding purchase order and don't accept a return".At least that's my understanding of the legal situation. But I might be overlooking some ebay terms or legislation which gives you further rights; hence my original question.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:08:43 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 24, 2016, 06:47:07 pmHi Gyro,I would love to but the £16 isn't really my problem. It's still a cheap scope if I add that to the price but it's what put me off originally that made me cancel.It's the warranty hassle. I'm even less confident in that now I've seen how ebay / paypal have responded to my case. I can see me having all types of problems if anything goes wrong.That's assuming the seller is still around in 6 months :/ I just decided against it in the end and opted to go with somewhere in the UK / Europ where I could get decent after sales support.The customs declaration thing really did bother me. I know why they did it but I personally don't approve. It's just one more thing to go wrong and another excuse for me to end up conned out of my money.I look at it like if something were to or has happened to it in transit, looking at the problems I've already had, I can see the fun I'd have trying to get that one sorted with the seller worming their way out of responsibility.Knowing what I know now with this seller and how he deliberately mislead me, I just want to get rid of the thing, get it back to him and get my money back.This purchase has been painful but it's revealed the kind of seller I would have to deal with if I kept it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:10:47 pm
content: If seller would declare the right value, you would have to pay about £60, not £16. As for saying that he lied about that item was already shipped, this in not necessary true. Seller could have used some intermediary between him and DHL, therefore the item could be already dispatched but not scanned by DHL yet. It is not rare that item is dispatched from Hong-Kong while the seller is located in mainland China. Also February 21 is Sunday, and it doesn't seem likely that could actually dispatch it on this day. Even if he lied, very likely he does not have his own stock, therefore already spend his money for purchasing the scope at the moment you contacted him about cancelling the order. Just pay those £16.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:16:43 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 24, 2016, 07:02:56 pmYep, an eBay sale is a contract.He also has a binding contract with eBay to paytheirfees. He can't simply mark an order as "cancelled" and pay nothing. EBay will still charge him the full amount for the sale - could be 10%.EBay doesn't allow order cancellation because people could agree to pay for stuff outside of eBay and avoid seller's fees by simply marking things as 'cancelled'.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on February 24, 2016, 07:10:47 pm+1

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:23:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:08:43 pmMaybe the 'scope will be fine and last for 10 years with no problems.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:08:43 pmHuh? He did you a big favor and took a risk in the process.You saved 50 Quid, he risked being caught for fraud charges (fines, confiscations...)That's not a "con", that's customer service above and beyond the call of duty.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:28:47 pm
content: BTW, do not forget about different time zones. By the moment you sent the message on the feb 18th, most likely, business day in China was already ended.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:08:43 pmSo basically, you ordered something at a low price, then thought about things like warranty and changed your mind. You are now upset that you weren't able to cancel it. You're using everything else the "DHL ransom" seller's 'dishonesty' etc. as an excuse.I'm sorry, but my sympathy is with the seller in this case. You are a nightmare customer to deal with.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:52:44 pmAren't ebay transactions non-cancellable in the first place bar "force majeure" (which "I don't want it anymore" certainly isn't)? So the seller's answer of "too late" being only something to try and make the pill a bit easier to swallow than a harsh "no cancellations as per eBay terms you agreed to".Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:52:44 pmTo me, you are. £16 for a £250 item shipped internationally and going through customs is normal if not actually pretty cheap. "Destination country's VAT + handling charges" is standard practice, it's documented, it's not hard to find out about.Then the whole "How do I deal with warranty from a seller I don't know who's at the other end of the world and where it would take me 30% of the original cost to ship it back to" also isn't that hard to figure out, and most importantly is something to consider and weigh BEFORE clicking the "Buy" button. Along with reading the conditions for the sale and various protection options.I agree with the "pay the £16, take the scope, wait until you have confirmation of the cashback, if it worked contact the seller and pay him, this time through a proper paypal account, if not leave it at that", by all means stop jumping around and try to think before you act as until now pretty much every step you've taken has made matters worse.But at this point you're the one being unfair to the seller. He's probably going to end up with £50+ in shipping losses due to YOUR mistakes and freaking out instead of thinking before buying.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 24, 2016, 06:58:45 pmI'll have a big bag of whatever you've been smoking this evening. Cheers.I didn't forget anything and it's quite clear what you're implying. I couldn't give a stuff about the current £16 ransom or the import duties even if he had declared it at its true value (which I would have preferred). I was well aware of the risks when I initally purchased the item and was quite prepared to pay the duties since it clearly states it all over the listing.What don't you grasp about the simple premise that I didn't want it, I changed for my mind reasons I covered in my first post well before it even left the sellers hands and that I instructed the seller to cancel but he chose not to? Is that to difficult or should I spell it out in large font in crayon?And what on earth are you babbling about with "I should send £250 to clear up the mess"? Dude, do yourself a favor and stay off the hard stuff!DoubleQuote from: blueskull on February 24, 2016, 06:59:13 pmThe only wrong he did? Oh boy.NVM. Go back sleep.What's this obsession with customs? Customs has nothing to do with this issue. I couldn't care less about customs or the price. That's not the point. The point which is getting glossed over is that I, the *** customer told the seller not to continue with the sale before any goods had been sent. The seller lied and ignored this. End of. If people are struggling to grasp that simple concept then I give up.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:38:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pmWhat you don't grasp is you didn't have that freedom. Once you click the buy button it's done. There's no changing minds, the thinking must be done before the clicking, not after.The reason people talk about the customs is that you keep mentioning the "£16 ransom" so it seems you put importance on it - instead of the facts that actually matter.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:40:24 pm
content: There you go again, don't you understand that buying something and then deciding you don't want it is entirely YOUR problem, not the seller's.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:45:34 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pmWhat you do not grasp is that seller have no obligation to cancel the order at all. Youdon't have the rightto cancel the order on ebay, this can beonly a favorfrom the seller to do this. By the time you made a purchase, seller already owed £25 to ebay.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:49:34 pm
content: Haven't read the whole post, but I can share my dealings with DHL.Ordered some parts from TME.eu, only £20 worth of parts, got delivered pretty fast with DHL, they just handed me the package as they should. 2 weeks later I get an invoice for £35, claiming they paid the VAT for me and they had a fee for paying VAT up front. But the £20 is below the VAT limit, so I tried to complain.No contact on the phone, nothing on email.. Just a week later I get a late fee added on top and a warning that they are sending it to debt collectors. Now it's £40, and still completely unable to contact DHL, I wait.. Next week I get a letter from the debt collector, £45 now and legalese writing that scared me... Decided to just pay it so it won't escalate any further (fearing a strike on my credit history).The morning the day after I paid DHL, they contact me, apologizes for the mistake and say they've cancelled the invoice. Too late.. I email them again, ask if I can have it refunded, not heard from them..

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:50:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pmTime to quiet down, man... You placed a binding order, then got second thoughts about it; but that does not give you the right to cancel the order or return the item. Maybe the seller wanted to avoid a confrontation by telling you "too late to cancel", but it does not matter -- he would have won that confrontation anyway.Pay the customs fee, get the scope ad use it -- I hope it will be useful for your projects.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:53:11 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 24, 2016, 07:50:14 pmWell put!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 07:54:27 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pmWhat "ransom"? It's a standard import TAX, required by law.Pay it, get your scope, relax and enjoy it. It'll probably be fine.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:34:49 pmAnd what you're not grasping is that you never had that option. That's not the way things work.Two things happen when you click "buy" on eBay:a) You entered into a legal contract (I believe eBay pops up a window that explains this to you and gives you the chance to cancel).b) The seller is stuck with non-refundable eBay/Paypal fees (at what point did you offer to pay those for him?)Sorry, I'm with the seller. With all the eBay fees, chargebacks, etc., he's probably already lost money on this.If he's really unlucky eBay will raise his fees on ALL ITEMS HE SELLS IN THE FUTURE. eBay has a sliding scale of fees, his sellers fees can go upforeverbecause of stuff like this.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:19:10 pm
content: You know it's funny because I've explained all of this to my bank at great length earlier today and they didn't seem to share the same opinion regarding these "binding contracts", sales laws, consumer rights etc. Ironically it was Paypal that advised me to intiate the charge back and the bank didn't disagree with thefactssorry, I mean excuses presented to them. Still, time will tell, eh?Maybe I should just print the phone number to my Visa provider and you can all inform them of these binding laws? It seems the Visa people obviously aren't well versed in goods and sales etc.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:21:29 pm
content: Good luck. I'm out of here.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 08:19:10 pmBe sure to let us know how you straightened this out without losing your honor.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:28:55 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 24, 2016, 07:30:09 pm<-THISYou buy something on ebay. pay for it. Then change your mind ? sorry bub. should not have bought it.Now you are trying all kinds of shenanigangs to return item and get money back.no sympathy.

author: TheAmmoniacal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:30:15 pm
content: I have to pay 25% VAT + £13 handling fee for getting anything into the country, £16 for £250 is something to be happy about. Just do it.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:39:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 08:19:10 pmLaugh all you want son, but you won't worm your way out with any form of self-respect or dignity now. Just because the seller's thousands of miles away doesn't mean he deserves to get screwed by you.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 08:41:18 pm
content: Oh what a mess !I am a regular purchaser from China via eBay. I have also lived in China and Hong Kong. With >3600 eBay feedback I know a thing or two about international purchasing. My thoughts on your situation.....1. You ordered an expensive and fragile product from an overseas seller. He likely had to order it and pay a supplier before posting it to you.2. The seller used DHL, normally the preferred shipping method as China Post can be brutal to fragile packages.3. You changed your mind about the purchase. EBay is not like a regular retail shop and you are buying from China. Normal rules of retail and the right of return do not apply. Sadly you did not consider this before ordering the scope That was your mistake and not the sellers.4. The seller told you it was too late to cancel, you think he lied. Stop for just a minute and think about this. You ordered an expensive product, the seller likely sourced it from a supplier who does not offer returns. You committed to buy and cancelling your order places the seller in a very difficult position. He has every right to say too late.5. The seller shipped later than advertised...... Likely waiting for the wholesaler to deliver the product to him. Such is life.6. Now the very important part....... You contracted to pay the seller for the scope. In truth £250 is not a huge sum to most of us in Europe or the UK. However, for many Chinese, £250 is a very big deal and not an amount they can afford to loose. This would also apply to any lost postage to get the scope back. The Chinese are good people and many are just trying to make a living as best they can. Have some compassion for the seller.In this case I definitely feel for the seller and pity him. I believe in Karma and suggest you do the right thing by ensuring the seller gets paid in full for the scope. There is little reason to expect problems with the scope and you will have made a large enough saving to take the risk ? I bought my Rigol,from China and it has given great service for many years. At worst you would have to pay the UK Agent to have it repaired....... Remember you made a saving when you bought it though. Buying such kit from outside Europe is an informed risk.Honestly, and I mean this in the kindest possible way, stop making a mountain out of a mole hill and settle your debts. You will get to an age when you look back and wonder why on Earth you made such a fuss over this. Make decisions, good or bad, and live with the results. Do not whinge or make others life miserable trying to dig yourself out of a hole.Oh and just so you know, under chargeback, a card issuer will happily refund your account while they investigate the validity of your claim. That does not mean they agree with your views or that you are right. They will just as happily recharge your account when the seller counters your claim.Fraser

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:13:21 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 07:08:43 pmWhat makes you think a local seller will provide proper warranty and sales support? I'd just pay the 16 pounds and use the scope for as long as it works.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:32:45 pm
content: OP -->QuoteI doubt it, maybe from the bottom of a 6 foot hole. ie this will drive you crazy.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 09:57:05 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on February 24, 2016, 08:28:55 pmI admit I changed my mind once on eBay (I was after something that formed a pair and I only got one of the two items).You know what I did? I wrote to the seller and offered to let them deduct their eBay fees plus a couple of dollars for their trouble then refund me the difference.In the end they didn't deduct the extra couple of dollarsandI got positive feedback.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 10:15:09 pm
content: Unfortunately people we will probably never get the opportunity to read this chapter.....My Ebay Hantek Selling Hell

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 10:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 24, 2016, 09:57:05 pmThere was no need to make that offer. Cancelling a transaction doesn't cost the seller anything. If the seller refunds the money, he is refunded all eBay and PayPal fees.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:00:50 pm
content: This reminds me of a story a few months ago - I believe it was a $800 ebay purchase from Germany sent by DHL to Italy. I think the last update it was lost in DHL never never land.Does anyone remember this story and what ever happened?

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pm
content: As I understand it my purchase is covered by the distance selling regulations. And they state that I have the right to cancel at any time without reason provided it is within 14 days of receiving the goods.I have the right to refuse the goods if they've been sent already.It's all here.What Rights and Obligations Does a Buyer Have?Buyers have seen an increase in their rights since the days of “caveat emptor”, and can be sure they will be given the same protections through the European Union.The most important change is that the buyer’s right to withdraw from the sale has been extended from seven to fourteen days.Withdrawal allows a buyer to change their mind about whether or not they want the goods. However, they must withdraw from the sale by using an acceptable method –for example, a phone call is unlikely to be sufficient unless the seller specifically states it is. To find out what method of withdrawal is acceptable to the seller, it is necessary to look at their terms and conditions.The buyer should keep evidence of their attempt to cancel, just in case the seller does not respond in time or refutes. If the buyer does make a phone call, they should keep a written log of this, but it would be best to use another method of cancellation.The buyer’s right to cancel is unconditional. If they do so before the arrival of the goods, the total cost and shipping must be refunded. If the goods arrive, they can refuse to accept delivery.If the goods are lost in transit, the seller must either send new goods or offer a full refund including delivery charges. However, the buyer may be liable for shipping costs in certain circumstances. This information must be provided by the seller, usually through their terms and conditions. If it is not, the buyer will have a claim against the seller.The risk involved in transporting the goods remains on the seller upon giving the goods to the carrier. However, if the carrier is chosen by the buyer and it is not one of the seller’s usual carriers, the risk then passes to the buyer, who is held liable for damages by the carrier.It is the duty of the buyer to take reasonable care of the goods if they choose to return them. They must not be damaged. If they are, the seller may have a claim. And if the buyer fails to return the goods and a refund has been issued, the seller has a claim.Ebay is governed by these laws above all others despite what ebay may claim or sellers may try and claim so I really don't care what the opinions are about what they think I'm trying to do or not.The fact is I changed my mind end of. There's no con here. No customs dodging or any of the other sour accusations / assumptions. Just sore sellers backing up other sore sellers from the look of it.Funny how they advocate certain dodgy practices like customs dodging but then paint people as terrible customers to be avoided when they try and exercise their rights. Pfft.Anyway, I'm outta here. Have fun debating it.Cheers.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:26:45 pm
content: Quote from: mos6502 on February 24, 2016, 10:45:46 pmYep, I know this anyway because I've had it happen in the past and the seller was perfectly fine. Transaction cancelled with no cost to either party.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pmWhew, we can now resume talk about test equipment!

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:37:09 pm
content: Was somebody stopping you then TheSteve? Maybe your own compulsion to return to this post?I'll remove the gun from your head so you can carry on your "test equipment" discussions.

author: haveissues
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2016, 11:59:12 pm
content: At what point do your rights as a buyer in your country trump his rights as a seller in his?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:18:44 am
content: QuoteWhat further relationship do you need? The seller of an oscilloscope doesn't necessarily have to like romantic comedies or long walks on the beach. And he doesn't necessarily even have know how to turn on an oscilloscope. If the product arrives as stated, the relationship is great. And it's done (barring bank involvement).It is possible he could have been nice and canceled your order. You don't know the circumstances. All you have is a DHL number. You don't know his inventory management, picking, packing, and shipping systems. Canceling the order at that point could have cost him real money. It could have been impractical. It could have been out of his hands, entirely. Your package could have been one of a thousand already piled up on pallets on a loading dock. Our collective gut might think this isn't the case, but you have no way to prove he didn't act in good faith.FYI, an oscilloscope is warranted by the manufacturer. If it arrives in good condition but later develops problems, you would contact Hantek, not the seller. The seller is not the guy doing quality control and repair of defective oscilloscopes.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:28:14 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pmThese regulations apply to UK sellers. You did not buy from a company in the UK, your contract was not with a company in the UK.Pay the money and accept the scope you purchased.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:40:01 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 24, 2016, 11:00:50 pmThe last that I heard, the buyer was out his money and never received his item. I talked to Ebay shortly after that happened and I specifically asked about a situation like his. Ebay told me that they DO NOT stand behind international shipments unless they're shipped via THEIR overseas shipping program! THAT was news to me! Ebay has always claimed that they stand behind the buyer if there is a defective item or if it's not delivered but I've never seen anything that said that that only applied if you bought an item and shipped it viatheirshipping service!FWIW UPS is well known for holding items for ransom when shipping from the US to Canada and vice versa so I ALWAYS make sure of how the seller is planning on shipping and what fees are involved before entering into an international Ebay transaction. Clearly in this case, the buyer didn't do that and IMO he got off lightly! And further, the seller actually saved him money by mis-stating the value of the item for tax purposes. IMO this buyer has NOTHING to complain about! He claims QUOTEThe customs declaration thing really did bother me. I know why they did it but I personally don't approve. It's just one more thing to go wrong and another excuse for me to end up conned out of my money.UNQUOTE. Ok OP if you feel so bad about it, I suggest that you write a check for the correct amount and send it to your country's revenue service. But I'm not holding my breath until that happens!

author: TopLoser
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:40:27 am
content: Now I remember why I stopped selling stuff on eBay!

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:58:29 am
content: I agree, you should pay the customs and pick up your scope... even if you don't want it.Rather than deal with a seller in HK who you already do not trust, take the bird in hand. And then sell it if you want your money back.I'm reminded of a defective computer I purchased from a big box store. I finally took it back just a few days after the return policy expired. They had it for over a month, always with an update on what state it was in, where it was shipping off to, etc.So I came down to the store in person to see if I could grease some wheels. And a rep informed me they were working on it in the back, as we spoke (hoya! I was totally shocked to hear this, because for the past 5 weeks whenever I had called, it had always been on a truck going nowhere). But that is still wasn't fixed, and they would call me when it was done (which was an empty song and dance that I was treated to at least once, already. Still I'm thilled to just have the computer back). I said no thanks. Kindly keep my money and give me the thing which I had paid for two months ago. Broken, in pieces, I don't care. Just give me all the parts in a bag, and I'll be on my way. No problem. I was done wasting my time, and I just wanted to cut my losses.Well, apparently they didn't even have my computer. The look of distress on his face told me I had called a bluff. He scuttled away to speak to a manager, who came over to offer me a new replacement.Point being, if it's there, I'd take it. You send it back, they have your money and you have nothing. And if you want a scope, you might like it. I have a Hantek. I bought it on Ebay. I like it. And I have received support from Hantek.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:53:42 am
content: Just wait until you actually do get the scope and then realize you have a genuine Hantek.

author: stuartk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:55:13 am
content: Hey Micky,Take a deep breath and don't stress it. 250 pounds for a scope that you will likely enjoy and use for years is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Very likely the seller has razor thin margins, and is just barely making a living, so cut him some slack. At that price you're not expecting much of a warranty or service anyways. Whatever use you get out of it, it will be worth it.Right now I'm toying with the idea of purchasing a $7500 MSO from Keysight and that's low end equipment to what a lot of people use. When you're making those level of purchases you expect a higher level of customer service/warranty that you still may not be guaranteed at getting. These things always break the day after the warranty ends anyways, and then cost a fortune to fix. That's when you are really held for ransom.Many of the people on this forum have lost tens of thousands of dollars or more on projects that didn't work out or business decisions that went awry.This kind of stress damages your coronary arteries and your enjoyment of what is a enjoyable hobby and just isn't worth it. Do your self a big favor, complete the deal, get the scope, fire it up and have some fun.Remember you can always resell it if you don't like it and get most of your money back anyways.As for taxes and fee's and the ransom, I hear you, I hate it, you just have to take the broomstick on that one as every level of supplier and government wants a piece of your money and there is not much you can do about it.Have a nice day,Stuart

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:57:48 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pmSee post #2, which you replied to and thanked, why these regulations don't apply here.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:52:44 pmbecause maybe deep down you know the seller is going to be out of pocket?Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 08:19:10 pmThe bank don't care who's right or wrong because the money is yanked back from the seller by default. Only if the seller manages to prove beyond doubt that it's a bogus chargeback will the decision get reversed. Whichever way it costs the seller, they either suck up the debt or spend time/money fighting it.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pmThis made me re-read the thread to make sure you weren't being served an injustice by these sore folk. I found no evidence.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:09:52 pmThat's the nub right there. Immediately after ordering you gotbuyer's remorse, worried something might screw up in the delivery process and so you tried to cancel your order. The seller either chose to ignore your request or the process was so far along that they genuinely couldn't recall the order. It arrives well before its estimated delivery date, without incident and has a reasonable £16 DHL fee to pay, and you're now worried that DHL are trying to fleece you.Let's hypothetically say that you held your nerve for the 6 days from order to delivery (17-23rd), or hadn't read the scaremongering which made you try to cancel, then your post would have been along the linesQuoteIn none of this charade do you say you don't actually want that model of scope which you researched more than the buying process, so why can't you pay the £16 fee and enjoy your purchase? Personally, I think you should chalk this up as a learning curve of how business and trade generally works.If you release it from DHL and change your mind about owning it, I'll commit to buying it from you.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 05:41:19 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pmThe page you probably quoted from,https://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/distance-selling-regulations.html, discusses theEuropeanconsumer protection laws. But it does have a brief section covering transactions across EU borders. Please review that section too:QuoteAs mentioned earlier, I don't think the European consumer protection laws apply when you buy from outside of the European union.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:38:16 am
content: Quote from: haveissues on February 24, 2016, 11:59:12 pmAt the point the seller decides to sell to a consumer resident in the EU.However, I'm not siding with the buyer in this case, because I don't think it is fair to refuse delivery in an international transaction. But EU law is probably on the buyer's side. In fact the Distance Selling Regulations he quotes have been replaced by new similar EU regulations with an even longer title, so the exact rules may differ. The also differ slightly between EU countries, depending on how they implement the relevant EU directive.Edit: the laws that apply to the transaction are those of the EU, and this is separate to the rules about which court to apply to in order to enforce them. In practice, unless you are extremely wealthy it is best to deal with the intermediaries such as the credit card company rather than start a legal case in a foreign country.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:00:16 am
content: well, let me just mention:a) I dealt with 'ameliazhou' before, everything was fine.b) you ordered during chinese new year festivities: there is a two week period where almost nothing happens in China. Did you ever took this in account?I did not read all the posts. My advise: pay the 16 pounds and get it. You should be glad you can avoid to pay more import VAT and tax. Basically you are betraying your nation with this. As a honest citizen you should inform DHL that the stated value is wrong (not your fault) and that they please should calculate VAT and import tax using the real amount of $$ you paid. Thus you can sleep well at night and you can be proud of your honesty

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:44:45 am
content: Quote from: rch on February 25, 2016, 08:38:16 amThis is where it gets interesting. (And I don't claim to know the exact legal situation; hence my open question in post #2.)Do you have any official reference for those statements? The reference Mikey and I had quoted above states that the "jurisdiction of the seller" applies, which not just means which court one needs to turn to, but also which laws apply. But, as you mention, the situation may have changed with the 2014 EU directive on consumer rights. A current reference would be appreciated!(Come to think of it, isn't this forum meant to talk about a different flavor of "current reference"?)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:03:22 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 25, 2016, 09:44:45 amNever mind the laws. I'm pretty sure they're not designed for "I changed my mind".First get the 'scope from DHL. If it turns out to be a cardboard box with six house-bricks in it,thenyou can start reading laws.If it contains a perfectly working Hantek oscilloscope then you get what you ordered, it arrived in a very reasonable time (even in Chinese New Year!)andyou didn't get stung badly with customs charges. What's the complaint?

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:36:47 am
content: Just to clarify.....Anyone selling through ebayAS A BUSINESSis subject to the DSR / CRA.It doesn't matter if the seller is in the north pole - if they are trading through Ebay.co.uk and selling to customers in the UK, no matter where in the world their business is, they are subject to and bound by those regulations. Even ebay are ultimately bound by and governed by those regulations - as are ANYbusinessestrading through ebay.co.uk. The seller can write no returns etc all over their listing but those terms mean absolutely nothing when wieghed against the DSR and CRA. Anyone selling to the UK should be FULLY versed in these regulations.Auctions are a slightly different matter but I didn't deal with an auction - I dealt with buy it now which brings the DSR and CRA into playThe seller and ebay can print whatever terms and small print they like but the DSR and the consumer rights act will always take precedent. That's what they were created for.Anyone wishing to contact trading standards or Citizens advice can verify this.Like I said, I can cancel. No reason needed. None of this "it's a binding contract" or "it's up to the seller's good will" nonsense.I could set up a shop tomorrow and fill my terms and conditons with things like once you click buy it's yours, no refunds, no warranty etc but ultimately these mean naff all.Taken from Citizens Advice:If you bought the item online, over the phone or by mail orderYou automatically get a 14-day ‘cooling-off period’ when you buy something you haven’t seen in person - unless it’s bespoke or made to measure.The cooling-off period starts as soon as you receive your order, and there doesn’t need to be anything wrong with the item for you to get a refund.You won’t get a cooling-off period when you buy:something that deteriorates quickly - like flowers or foodan item that was personalised or custom-made for youanything from a private individual rather than a businessa CD, DVD or software, if you break the seal on the wrappingIf you paid for standard delivery when you bought something, the seller has to refund this if you return it. If you chose a more expensive delivery option, you'll have to pay the difference.Use your cooling-off periodYou need to tell the seller you don’t want the item within 14 days of receiving it. Once you’ve told the seller, you’ve got another 14 days to actually send the item back.You can use our template letter to let the seller know you’re cancelling. Keep a copy so you’ve got proof you sent it.You could also phone - but make sure you make a note of who you speak to and what was agreed. It’s a good idea to follow up with a letter or email.Sellers must give you certain information when you buy something without seeing it in person. This includes their business address and phone number, and details of your right to cancel. If you didn’t get this in writing (they’re allowed to send it by email) then your cooling off period is increased even further, to a year and 14 days.14 days is the absolute minimum cooling-off period that a seller must give you. Make sure you check the terms and conditions in case they’ve given you more time to change your mind - many choose to do so.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:38:24 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2016, 10:03:22 amSee my previous post.Indeed I can change my mind when the items have been purchased over the internet. It's an automatic 14 day cooling off period.I can cancel at ANY time even if the goods have been sent.Cheers.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:43:40 am
content: The EU consumer rights apply for purchases within the EU area.From the website of European Consumer Centre Ireland athttp://www.eccireland.ie/popular-consumer-topics/shopping-online/Quote

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 10:49:51 am
content: Mikey2016 all I know, you are arrogant noobwho's ebay rating is only 9 (edit, not sure about this)and who is proud of cancelling the orders and screwing up the sellers. Good luck in your life with such attitude. If you receive the scope and keep the money, this is called fraud.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:01:58 am
content: Quote from: wraper on February 25, 2016, 10:49:51 amSo where did I say I was planning on keeping the moneyandthe scope? Please do tell me where I said this?Don't try and question my honesty or integrity when I'm not the one that couldn't be straight to begin with!Oh yes, I absolutely get off on making sellers life hell just for the fun of it. Makes my day all day every day. I'm going to do it again tomorrow just because I like spending money and creating problems just to put sellers out of pocket. Yep, you've rumbled me. Damn! That's my scam exposed.Aint nothing wrong with my ebay rating pal. Never had any major issues that couldn't be worked out reasonably in 12+ years of being a member.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:11:32 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 25, 2016, 10:36:47 amUmmmm, you haven't received it yet....and UK lawsdon'tapply to everybody else in the entire world. Ask a Texan if you need any clarification on that point, i'm sure they'll explain it clearly.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:28:54 am
content: Mikey, gr8 b8 m8!

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 11:36:49 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 25, 2016, 10:38:24 amIN THE COUNTRIES these regulations apply to. Ie UK/EU. Not China.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 12:38:15 pm
content: And yet no one has mentioned that Chinese New Year finished a few days before the purchase. The backlogs would have been huge and probably contributed to delays in shipping / communications in general.I've had several orders with dhl ship from our warehouse and not show on tracking for a day or 2, so the seller was probably telling the truth about it already being shipped.

author: BillyD
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:15:20 pm
content: Quote from: PTR_1275 on February 25, 2016, 12:38:15 pmActually there have been a couple of mentions of it, see #53 and #55 above where they make a similar point to yours.

author: PTR_1275
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:18:54 pm
content: My bad, yes you are correct that it's been mentioned previously.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:34:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 25, 2016, 10:36:47 amNOT A CHANCE!! You purchased outside of the EU!

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:41:28 pm
content: Honestly I don't get this story from the Original Poster.Either you buy something and stick with the original plan, or you don't buy it in the first place.Think twice before you order something.You have really overcomplicated all these things yourself.I really hope for yourself that this is a one time event where you overcomplicated something, and that you don't overcomplicate other things in life, otherwise your life must be very very complex....

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 01:44:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 25, 2016, 10:36:47 amSince you trust the citizensadvice website, why not read this page as well:https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-abroad/buying-abroad/buying-from-an-overseas-seller-outside-europe/It seems that the page you quoted from describes the situation within the EU correctly. But it neglects to mention the implicit assummption that both, the buyer and the seller, are located in an EU country.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:18:32 pm
content: I have said it before and it is worth repeating........Life is too short for this sort of crap. £250 for a DSO is a good price. It comes from China where prices are low and margins are slim. Chinese sellers tend to have a far harder life than we enjoy in the UK. Please consider this.Mikey, please stand back for a moment, try to disconnect your UK/European centric views and consider whether you are being totally logical about this situation.You wanted a DSO at a great price, you have potentially got a DSO at a great price. You are worried about support, but have no reason to think the DSO will be poor quality and fail quickly. The savings you have made would effectively offset the repair cost anyway. Remember, this is ONLY a £250 scope and not a multi thousand pound purchase.Please think about Karma here. Is it right to take the action that you have against the seller when he or she has provided what was ordered, and in very quick time. You changing your mind was an unfair act in Chinese thought processes. The Chinese view of business is very different to that found in the UK. You made a mistake in your mind. I beg to differ, I think you made a good decision to buy from a good Chinese seller.You state you have been on eBay over 12 years, so surely you were already aware that most, if not all Chinese sellers on eBay place a nominal value on a consignment ? HMRC are well aware of this, but the man hours to pursue the thousands of relatively low value parcels is uneconomic. The situation is very different for high value consignments though.I am 48 and have just retired from a high stress job. I am now enjoying life.My best friend dropped dead of a Heart attack last week at age 63, my head of section and deputy head of section both died of cancer last year, both were aged 63 ! ....... This gives you some perspective on life. From your posts I am guessing you are still quite young and full of youthful energy and expectations. If this is true, PLEASE consider what is important in life and discount the small annoyances that occur along the way. It took me until I was 43 to realise this important life view. I got very ill and I am still fighting to get back to the health that I hope you enjoy. This tends to focus the mind on what is, and is not truly important to a well formed and happy life. You have finite time to enjoy it and I regret wasting some of mine worrying about what I could not influence or change. I used to be a bit like you, a dog with a bone. You have to learn to let it go.My advice from the heart is, swallow your pride and views on what is totally right or wrong, and pay the £16 to DHL, take delivery of the DSO and enjoy it !This will be a very positive experience I can assure you.Then contact your card company and cancel the chargeback as the situation is resolved.Contact the seller and explain that you have accepted the delivery and cancelled the charge back. The seller can use this to sort out any issues your chargeback has caused at their end. Please have some compassion for this seller.Finally, if you truthfully have issues with not paying your correct level of VAT, please contact HMRC and explain that there was an undercharge on a parcel you received. They will think you mad, but will happily accept the additional VAT payment. You can then relax about not paying your dues to British society.Have a good life full of positivity and do not waste any of it on silly little disagreements or conflicts.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:24:36 pm
content: Further my last,Please re-read this thread. The majority of posts are trying to be helpful and highlight that you may be acting somewhat irrationally in this situation.Criticism is never easy to take, but please consider the fact that anyone cared enough to answer, and like me, took the time to write a response. Our time is valuable to us you know. In my case I am not 'bashing' you over this, just trying to give you a slightly different perspective on life that will serve you well in the years ahead.Fraser

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:33:13 pm
content: Mikey, sorry, you're wrong. You don't have any right of return when purchased from a company in China. They sell through eBay.com, with a worldwide listing. EU laws *do not* apply.Cancel the chargeback. Pay the €16. Use the scope.Or, keep digging your hole.Either way. (Though, if you chose the latter, I hope a representative from your bank finds this thread when researching the chargeback, laughs at you, declines it and then closes your bank account. Now *that* would be funny. Talk about just desserts.)

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:41:57 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 24, 2016, 07:54:27 pmI'm with the seller as well, but I was under the impression that if the seller hadn't shipped it yet and canceled the sale, that all the Ebay and Paypal fees are returned.I did this for a buyer several months ago and that was the case then, anyway...Jay

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:52:56 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on February 25, 2016, 02:41:57 pmYes, if a transaction is cancelled on eBay all fees are refunded to both parties. I think the likely situation was, as someone else already said, that the seller didn't really stock the item but had to order it from the supplier first. He/she shouldn't have falsely advertise dispatch within 1 day though, which was what started this whole mess. Had the seller been honest and responsive right from the start I guess everyone would have been happier.Having said that, I also agree that the OP should simply pay the £16, get the scope and move on. Life's too short for this kind of drama.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 02:33:13 pmThe OP is the bank's customer--they make good money out of him.If they decline the chargeback,that is one thing,but why would they close his account?Over the last 30 or so years,an idea has grown up that banks are somehow doing you a favour,in accepting your business.From that has come the habit of charging extortionate fees to operate accounts,penalties for "insufficient funds" refusals which are out of proportion to the real costs involved,etc.The latter is,thankfully being addressed in Australia,where banks look like having to repay millions of dollars.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 02:53:50 pm
content: When everyone here is trying you that you're wrong, maybe it's time to consider, however fleetingly, that maybe you are wrong. It sounds like that seller has been helpful and you have been a very difficult customer.Please never buy anything from me on eBay. Definitely don't enter the 'scope giveaway on here. I'd hate to think what you'll find to complain about if you were even slightly inconvenienced by winning it.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 03:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on February 25, 2016, 02:52:56 pmHere's someone who is actually in Hong Kong who says the seller is not without fault in this situation.The funny thing is,I have seen similar threads on this forum,where folks have been on the buyer's side.I have also worked somewhere where we bought quite expensive stuff from a company in China (5 specially built units).They were all "dead on arrival",& were returned for repair.After some weeks they came back,& one of them "sort of" worked.We ended up fixing them ourselves,but got the "run-around" every time we tried to source information, parts,etc,from the manufacturer.There seemed to be public holidays every time we contacted them!Yes,we got screwed,but it was cheaper in the end,to pretty much disengage,and source everything we possibly could from other suppliers,only getting proprietary bits from them.With this experience,I agree with the others about fighting this---there are things worth "going to the barricades" about,but this isn't one.

author: gore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 04:20:01 pm
content: I think at this point the best thing you can do to clear this mess is to pay the £16, which is much less than what you would usually pay to customs.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 04:35:07 pm
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 25, 2016, 10:36:47 amClaptrap.If I introduced you to a company in the US and said 'here, use my phone to make an order', you think the DSR would apply?Hint: They wouldn't.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 06:51:26 pm
content: Mikey, this thread probably isn't turning out how you'd pictured it would. I think it's fair to conclude you feel your views are 100% justified, and that everyone else's views are 100% wrong. That's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion - ultimately it is you who has to choose which actions to take next and then deal with the consequences.A lot of the flack you have taken in this thread though isn't about the cancelation-request/dispatch overlap question specifically but is actually a reaction to 3 things: how you presented yourself; your approach to resolving the unfolding situation; and disrespecting other peoples opinions.Surely the goal is to have a DSO5102B in your hands and enjoy using it?Everything else is a distraction.Most people would pay DHL and start enjoying the scope. It's the simplest way out of the hole and it is what would have happened if you hadn't have had doubts. I don't understand why this still wouldn't be an amicable solution for you and so your actions and defensive posts paint a picture of wanting to pursue this as a point of principle to show you're "right" and not to be messed with. That's your choice, it's not what I'd have done.We could civilly discuss the distance selling regulations, international trade, the seller's actions, etiquette around chargebacks and a whole host of other aspects of buying locally vs internationally, but you came in all guns blazing and chose not to take that route. C'est la vie.

author: Mark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 07:10:18 pm
content: What a moanbag. Must be a troll post. Must be. Or maybe forgot to take his pills this morning?

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 07:48:17 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 25, 2016, 02:53:37 pmRelax. It was a joke. (The irony being the card issuer screwing him over by keeping all the money in his account, just like he's trying to screw over the seller. Obviously that wouldn't happen though.)Also, when a bank extends you a line of credit, or gives you a loan, they kind of *are* doing you a favor. They don't *have* to give you that money. (Though, when you place your hard earned money in a savings account, you are doing *them* a favor, and to return that favor they *pay you* a small percentage; though with a checking account they don't, but instead provide all the infrastructure needed to use it, so it evens out.)Here in the US, we have a popular concept called Credit Unions. They're like a bank, only the members actually own it (by virtue of keeping their money there) which legally makes them shareholders. The members can vote at board meetings, set bylaws, etc. It's like if a bank and non-profit organization got together and had a baby. No outrageous fees, high interest on savings accounts and CDs, no-fee checking, low interest mortgages and loans, etc.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 07:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: Mark on February 25, 2016, 07:10:18 pmClearly a troll.The "must get a bargain" Hantek from China, for £250 ex VAT and import fees, vs a Rigol DS1054Z from a UK distributor for £299 including VAT, and then insisting on wanting to pay the full whack to HMRC after the seller marked down the CN22... Oh come on! Then moaning about a couple of days difference when timezones are way out... and the well known Chinese New Year. WTF?Too easy. When I said gr8 b8 m8 (Great Bait Mate) in my previous post I thought it would end it, but some people clearly like feeding trolls.If this guy really is genuine then god forbid Farnell who sell him a 555 timer and the spaztard can't get it to flash his LED. I bet he gets his personal Queen's Counsel high court barrister onto them.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:25:10 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on February 25, 2016, 02:41:57 pmMaybe.But in that case a seller can get the buyer's real email from paypal, agree to a payment outside eBay, cancel the sale, avoid eBay fees.(assuming the buyer agrees)

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 25, 2016, 08:25:10 pmPeople can do that anyway; sellers smuggle their mobile number into listings, or on their Ebay shop site. But the buyer has to be brave or know the sender to do without Ebay or Paypal protection. I did this recently, not because I wanted to cheat Ebay but because I wanted to make an offer on something with two failed auctions, and a decent-sounding seller. We ended up paying by Paypal because the seller preferred this and I dare say they had to pay Ebay fees, but they could have chosen not to, especially if they had their own credit card merchant account.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 08:53:55 pm
content: I don't know why people think the EU can't enforce consumer protection against foreign companies. (Especially people from countries that go around the world telling other countries who they can and can't trade with, and extraditing bankers who have never been to America.)There is some doubt whether courts in the more backward foreign countries would enforce EU law as they should if they were honest; but in this case both Ebay UK and the banks involved are clearly under EU jurisdiction, so Mikey would win his case without ever going to a lawyer. There is *no doubt* about this.However, he wasn't buying a pair of shoes from a multinational; he was buying an expensive device from a small trader in China:Maybe the seller tricked him by sending the item after he cancelled, but he couldn't prove it, and it is really much more likely he had already set the delivery in motion. Since Ebay makes the DSR rules clear to buyers (they really do - read the Ebay UK site any one from other English speaking countries who doesn't believe the rules apply to foreign businesses!) then Mikey is bound to pay return costs if the item is delivered. He wouldn't be so obliged if the seller (or his agent) hadn't told him about these costs.Either Mikey will have to pay £100 for tracked return delivery, or DHL will return the goods and probably charge the seller a huge sum. In neither case would it be fair, for different reasons.If I was the OP, I'd give the seller the benefit of the doubt that he acted honourably and was not able to cancel when he received the cancellation. Amazon often do the same, and tell you after you cancel that their systems are irreversible and you will have to send the stuff back or refuse to accept delivery.So in this case if he insists on a refund, someone is going to lose a huge sum of money compared to the value of the scope, and it is *just not worth it*.So please give in, despite the fact you *undoubtedly* have the legal right to cancel, and accept the delivery.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:17:46 pm
content: Quote from: rch on February 25, 2016, 08:53:55 pmSo would you have a reference supporting that? Which EU directive or national law stipulates that the EU consumer rights apply when the seller is based outside of the EU? (It might well be true. But just repeating that it is "undoubtedly" so does not count as a reference.)

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:55:59 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 25, 2016, 09:17:46 pmI can't find the text of the regulations at the moment, but this is Ebay's take on it, which is most relevant in the circumstances. If I find the directive I'll post that later.http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/legal-considerations-when-selling-internationally#rights

author: RobertBG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2016, 09:58:30 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on February 25, 2016, 07:55:57 pmWell said but if he's not a troll then hopefully the next time he hears a conversation about what's wrong with people today and their sense of entitlement.....................I hope that he knows that he is the problem they are talking aboutLast but not least if he's for real it's going to bite him in the ass in the end big time.So let him be

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 01:25:36 am
content: Quote from: timb on February 25, 2016, 07:48:17 pmThey are still providing a service for reward-----they can decide to extend you a line of credit,or not,but once they have done so,they are not in any way different from McDonald's or any other trader.QuoteWe used to have Credit Unions,too,but the laws were changed,making it easier to become a bank.If you weren't careful,you would have been trampled in the rush of CUs to become banks.Great for the "Suits",as they got nice new offices & big salaries----not so good for the members,who got shares in the new bank,which give minimal return.Most of them then merged with existing banks,until you ended up a customer of some bank you'd never heard of.

author: Mikey2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on February 25, 2016, 07:55:57 pmReally? Name calling and personal insults? How mature.Quote from: RobertBG on February 25, 2016, 09:58:30 pmYes, I exercised my consumer rights under the distance selling regulations and I'm the biggest problem in the world today.Never mind that I tried to cancel the purchase before any damage was done and was quite prepared to settle the matter long before the item ever got into the hands of DHL.Not my fault the seller couldn't be straight or reasonable enough to work out a solution where neither party fell out of pocket. The fact that it was chinese new year has naff all to do with anything. If the seller was away then he should have stated this like other sellers do. E.g this seller is away until XXX and may not respond.The seller could have replied to my cancellation request and informed me of the facts and we could have worked it out from there - but didn't.And yes I was quite prepared to pay the full import duty with the actual price stated on the customs declaration. I have stated this all along. I would have preferred the full value stated.Why is that so hard for peoplel to grasp? Just because I buy something cheap doesn't mean I'm a scammer or dishonest as people are trying to imply. So my budget for the item was £250. What does that prove? People seem to assume that's all the money I own in the world. That was the price I set for the item itself. Where did I say I couldn't afford the duty payments?It seems it's okay to be dishonest when it's supposedly in my favour such as wrongly decalring the value of the item to customs but when I try to exercise my legal rights I'm a horrible customer and I'm dishonest and a "spaztard" out to rip off the seller who hardly has the best track record for honesty. It really does make me laugh!I'm supposedly the problem with the world today and yet people can cherry pick and post on this thread about what is and isn't honest and righteous... Hahaha yeah right.So it's okay to comit customs fraud and put them out of pocket because it's suposedly in my favor but try to exercise my legal rights and I'm a dishonest ebay scammer that's out on a mission to solely rip of chinese sellers because they're thousands of miles away.Pfft. I'm selling moral compasses on ebay soon if anyone wants to buy any?Nobody is out to get anything more than they were entitled to. I'd be quite happy if the item went back and nobody was out of pocket. I would prefer that. No doubt someone will try twisting that round to state I'm out to rip off all the sellers on ebay and that I'm a scammer.Just to recap these ARE the facts:1. I made a mistake by ordering and then later re-considering based on the stories I'd read about warranty problems and problems ordering from China in THIS thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/which I'd found while researching hantek in general and where I came across information for my friends Rigol hack.2. I contacted the seller prior to the item being shipped to ask for a cancellation - something I have the right to do. I tried within reasonable time to halt the sale before any damage was done NOT to rip anyone off or circumvent customs.3. The seller responded stating the item had been shipped when in fact it had only just been booked with DHL for collection and wasn't collected til 2 days later. The seller could have asked me to re-imburse any fees etc but didn't. That option or opportunity was never presented. I was told the item had been dispatched and that was the end of it.4. My budget of £250 was for the item I never said anything about not being prepared to pay the full import amount for customs had the item been properly decalred. This has been assumed.My complaint with the £16 ransom was purely because had the seller worked with me to resolve the cancellation before the item was shipped, I wouldn't have had to pay it at all.So what if I opted to pay for a cheap chinese scope? What does that prove other than I didn't want to spend a massive amount on the item itself. At the time when I first made the transaction I was quite prepared to pay whatever in legal customs fees. I'm NOT a thief nor a fraudster as some keep advocating I should be by falsely declaring goods values to customs!In the end, I wanted to back out - something I know to be my rights to do in THIS country. Nothing wrong with that despite what people think. If the rights are on my side, deal with it.If it was buyer's remorse it was only fueled by a post that I read on THIS forum and is what made me reconsider buying from China in the end. £250 might not be a lot to some people but in the end I thought more about it and could forsee problems should anything be wrong with or go wrong with the unit. I decided in the end to find a UK seller where I wouldn't have problems despite what people say I would have an easier time dealing with a UK seller if problems were to occur.Twist it round however you want to - keep on getting your panties in a twist - I really could care less. I know what happened, I know I'm an honest person - I'm not the one cherry picking and telling people certain dishonest practices are acceptible but honest ones like exercising ones legal rights are not. And people have the bottle to tell me I'M what's wrong with the world.. Seriously?And as for caring about digntiy and credibilty on a forum full of people trying to tell me that breaking laws in my favour is okay? BwahahahahahahaDon't worry, I'll be sure to keep y'all updated. Have a nice day now!

author: gore
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:14:56 am
content: Perhaps the seller was late a day or two, but that's just maybe for all the reasons stated above in this thread. You always have to take such things in consideration when buying anything, really. If you can't afford waiting a little longer - don't commit. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, but that's the way reality is. But you, as a buyer, are in the wrong as well for being indecisive. Once you agree to buy the item on Bay by clicking the button - that's it. You keep hanging on these principles of honesty and law abiding. Well, that's great, but how do you solve any of the problems at this point? You have the option to easily solve it by paying a smaller fee than what was originally planned and get the damn scope you want. No laws will help you to clear this nonsense up. Just be reasonable and admit that both of you messed up but only one side can resolve this.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:27:58 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on February 26, 2016, 09:01:55 amIgnoring the rights and wrongs of the case (where I largely do agree with you), sufficient of Ebay's assets exist in the EU that they do have to obey EU rules! See my link quoted above:http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/legal-considerations-when-selling-internationally#rights

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:52:42 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 11:22:23 pm

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:55:28 am
content: Quote from: rch on February 26, 2016, 09:27:58 amThe strange part here is that I could not find any hint of those ebay rules on their US site (chosen as an example for a non-European ebay site where I can understand the language). If the EU laws apply to non-EU sellers, shouldn't ebay make them aware of those regulations? Those sellers will most likely will place their offers via their local ebay site, but may want to enable showing them on international sites. So all they ever read is the information on their local ebay site, which does not talk about EU consumer rights at all. In fact, the US site advises sellers that a return option can make their offers more attractive to buyers, but that they may want to limit or remove the return option for international sales.I am honestly confused to which transactions the EU regulations apply...However, I learned something else in the meantime, which makes the whole discussion totally moot in the present case: Ebay seller "ameliazhou", whom Mikey bought the scope from, explicitly offers a 20-day return period for each ebay sale! Seller to pay return shipping, money back, transaction cancelled, ebay fees refunded; all explained in each of their ebay offers.By the way, the seller seems to have 550 articles on offer at ebay.com right now.Edit: Not sure about that; the search results announce "550 items", but only display a much shorter list.Hence, (a) I have no idea at all what Mikey has ever been nervous about; and (b) the seller seems to run a reasonably large and professional operation, and has probably figured in the overhead labor/cost for the occasional return. I would still recommend Mikey to pay the import duties and enjoy his scope, but if he absolutely wants to return it, so be it.

author: rch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:18:29 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 26, 2016, 10:55:28 amHowever, the problem is:a) if the OP accepts the scope and returns it, he won't get his £16 handling fee back and it will cost him perhaps half what he paid for the scope for tracked delivery to China;or b) if he refuses to accept delivery we have no idea whether the various couriers (DHL may only be delivery agent) will return the item to sender or how much they will charge the seller for doing so.The *law* is on the buyer's side (and Ebay UK will enforce it whatever Ebay US says) so if he refuses delivery (and DHL don't just dump it over his garden fence and sue him for the the £16!) he is probably entitled to all his money back. This seems tremendously unfair on the seller.The distance selling regulations were designed to help stop exploitation of naive buyers by sellers of junk, and put people in the same position as if they had a chance to look at goods in a shop. Allowing people to reject well-described goods that don't need inspecting (as there are plenty of details on the Internet, including reviews) just increases costs for all of us. This is entirely separate from the right to reject mis-described or broken goods which is part of contract law most places and Ebay will generally protect buyers.So what I am saying is that the OP is entirely within his rights to do what he proposes, but the consequences of this sort of behaviour is bad for EU buyers in general, as we will all end up paying for the extra costs sellers sustain.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:26:47 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 26, 2016, 10:55:28 amI just checked them out.Over 6500 sales, 99.2% positive feedback. Very nice, professionally done listings.On the listings it says:QuoteAlso:QuoteThat's about as good as it gets, really.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:40:12 am
content: Quote from: rch on February 26, 2016, 11:18:29 amNow you've lost me. Let's leave the non-EU seller aspect aside and assume that the EU regulations apply. If refusing delivery means that DHL returns the item to the seller without charging him extra for the return trip, then the financial impact for the seller is just the same as if the buyer had sent the goods back. If, on the other hand, DHL applies a surcharge for returning the refused shipment, then the buyer clearly has to pay that charge, as return shipping is to be paid by the buyer. Hence, with regard to shipping costs, refusing delivery should be equivalent to accepting it and sending it back, as far as the seller's costs are concerned.Not sure what DHL would do with the import duties. I assume the actual tax would be refunded if the item is re-exported after deliver was refused, but DHL may still charge their processing fee (or even twice the fee). One could debate whether or not that fee is part of the original shipping cost, and who should pay for it...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:49:13 am
content: Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amFirst mistake. Despite several "first world countries" allow for "buyer's remorse", most of them do not. I personally have never seen a return of a product in my life before moving to US.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amThat is not your right on an international sale; at most this is a favour the seller will do to you.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amAs others have stated, you don't know how the operation goes; not everyone that sells on eBay packages products by themselves. Also, I have experienced in the past courier companies collect items and then ship them a day or two later - in the US!Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amAs probably others have pointed out as well, the use of the word "ransom" is inappropriate and opens the door to the interpretation of dishonesty you clearly dislike. DHL is transferring to you something they already paid (customs duties), not holding your oscilloscope against your will in exchange for money.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amSee number 1 above. What is right in your country may or may not be in others. eBay and Paypal have a system (broken or not, open for debate) that imposes some rules for transactions done internationally, but regret is not one of them.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amI agree with you that local sellers would potentially give you less headache. On the other hand, UK sellers will charge a lot more to comply with the local law and guarantee "buyer's remorse", warranty, labor to process, package and ship - things that will be reflected in the cost of the product. That is the main reason people focused on the £250 - in UK you wouldn't be able to get a product at this cost (as per other reports) and decided to make an international transaction that, unbeknownst to you,isstripped from most of these.Quote from: Mikey2016 on February 26, 2016, 08:41:27 amI don't think you are dishonest. What I think is that you need to expand how you see the world before doing international transactions.All in all, as others have said: swallow your pride, listen to the arguments presented here by almosteveryoneand distill in your mind that you are turning a seamless transaction into a pit of trouble. As Fraser pointed out nicely, life will teach you time and again to get some perspective in what really matters.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 11:59:14 am
content: Maybe the OP is busy playing with his new scope

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 12:10:42 pm
content: Oh Dear,I see Mike continues on his quest for 'justice'.Time for me to bow out of this thread, it's a waste of time and seems to now be just a silly squabble over rights of return. I have wasted enough time trying to convince Mike on the sensible path forward.You can lead a horse to water and all that.Time to get on with more productive matters.Fraser

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 05:34:07 pm
content: @Mikey2016 my last comment to you - Fungus found the actual terms of the seller which shows they are perfectly open to giving refunds for returned items.Your opinion that the seller couldn't cancel shipping and was just trying to stick it to you is just one opinion of many possible interpretations. To go on the offensive because of it is churlish. Giving the seller 'overnight' before expecting a response is impatient and unreasonable. Forcing a chargeback in less than 12 hours after that is an unnecessary, impatient and overly aggressive move on your part. You obviously think your technique is the lowest stress route to getting what you want so enjoy the ride.Quote from: Fraser on February 26, 2016, 12:10:42 pmExcept Mikey2016 would probably pick a fight with the horse as a strategy for making it drink.Fraser is right, time bow out and go help those who appreciate it. On the positive side this thread has made me re-evaluate my understanding of international distance selling regs when buying through ebay.co.uk which are not as clear cut as I first thought.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 06:56:58 pm
content: From talking to a Chinese seller of stage lighting equipment on Allieexpress, they send items to central location and from there they are shipped by courier. This causes the delays before the tracking starts.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 07:49:20 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on February 26, 2016, 06:56:58 pmSounds right.Everything they shiphasto work that way really, it's the only way to keep prices down.There's no way they can sell $1 items with free international shipping without pre-sorting and combining shipments into big bundles, all arranged by city/postcode ready for the destination country.I suspect this is the reason it sometimes takes 4 days and sometimes it takes 4 weeks for stuff to arrive; it all depends on how full the container for my city is when I order it.If the container just needed one more package then it'll ship as fast as they can load it on the next available transport. If they just started a new container I might have to wait weeks for it to fill up before they send it.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:14:23 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on February 26, 2016, 11:40:12 amEU rules say that the seller has to pay/refund all shipping costs if/when the entire order is returned.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:27:37 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 26, 2016, 09:14:23 pmDoes that apply if the seller is (eg.) a Texan?I'm sure a Texan will have a strong opinion on which laws apply to him and which laws don't.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:44:40 pm
content: Is this reasonable, dishonest, miss-leading, cheating, lying, normal advertising, etcMy guess is most people do not know they would have to mail it to China to get it fixed.From a Hong Kong Hantek seller:We .... , 3 years warranty, .....When the warranty is not covered in the country the buyer is in. ie it would be impracticable to try and get it fixed under warranty (shipping costs all around the world).I am sure there are a lot of people that get stung over this and the OP caught it just after he hit the buy button. My feeling is a buyer should get all their money back within 3 years if the scope craps out which I know is not going to happen.So my vote goes to the OP just over the warranty. I think it is miss-leading advertising. And this hurts in country sellers.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:47:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 26, 2016, 09:14:23 pmI've read more than I intended to on EU regs over the last 2 days and conclude that returns postage responsibility varies across the EU and on the seller's advert text.UK regs in force since 13 June 2014 guidance for sellers notes:"With regard to returns, you must make clear that the consumer must pay for returns if they cancel, unless you are willing to pay for that cost." FromUK Gov websiteSo in this case, UK regs will apply and the seller clearly states that return postage is paid for by the buyer. If the chargeback gets rejected, karma is going to have a sweet, sweet, sting in its tai.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 09:55:41 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 26, 2016, 09:44:40 pmYou overlook distributors or authorised Cal/Repair labs in another country other than from where the equipment was sourced will honour the manufacturers warranty, albeit begrudgingly.Online buyers should have faith that internationally available brands/models do have support despite the fact the have chosen not to support their local dealers.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on February 26, 2016, 09:44:40 pmOh come on! The OP said in his first post that he went for the lowest price listing. He didn't care about whether he was hurting in country sellers, he wanted the cheapest. The time to consider this sort of thing is before you commit to buy, not afterwards (next day, not just after he hit the button) it's a classic case of buyer's remorse. There's a time to man-up and live with the consequences of your decisions. He says he's been registered with ebay for 12 years, he knows how it works.EDIT: That was a little bad tempered, sorry ez24.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:15:38 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 26, 2016, 09:14:23 pmThat statement is not correct. The seller can state that the consumer has to pay for the return shipping cost. Only if the seller neglects to inform the customer of that (in the information he makes available before the sale), the seller has to bear the cost. EU directive 2011/83/EU, article 14.eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32011L0083

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 26, 2016, 10:07:22 pmWhich shows he is trolling, as he fully expected to pay import taxes and brokerage fees on the £250. 20% of is £50, so £300 + £16 fee for a Hantek. He is really disappointed that the seller put the incorrect value on the CN22. I don't know why as the responsibility for the customs is on him and he can quite rightly pay HMRC the difference as I am 100% sure he will forthwith. HMRC are very easy to deal with when an honest mistake has been made like this.A locally sourced far more superior Rigol 1054Z could be had from Rigol UK for cheaper when including VAT and delivery, or £320 including VAT and delivery from the EU from Batronix. £4 more.Of course OP wouldn't dream of hacking a 50MHz Rigol to 100MHz as that would be dishonest, so I understand the Hantek purchase. Which of course he wouldn't hack either.However, I do feel for the guy. I can't think of a more 7th circle of hell buying experience. Really, not at all. I've experienced some bad ebay purchases which I am glad to say all got resolved and read of many worse than mine, but this one should be right up thereI think a series of youtube videos detailing the harrowing experience as it evolves is needed.Poor OP. I'm thinking of you.

author: rich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2016, 10:53:53 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on February 26, 2016, 10:40:11 pmMacbeth, gr8 b8 m8!

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:46:14 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on February 26, 2016, 10:40:11 pmQuote from: Mikey2016 on February 24, 2016, 06:09:52 pmSounds a reasonable logic: hacking for a friend is ok, but don't try it for yourself.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 01:53:09 am
content: It is people like OP who made me create a buyers list with their names and periodically refer to it when selling stuff to ensure I do not bother them with my services anymore.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 05:54:47 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 26, 2016, 09:27:37 pmIf a Texan hadn't sent the item,he would tell you just that,& not try to fob you off!My experience in dealing with a Chinese supplier was that the person you end up contacting doesn't want to upset you,but even more,doesn't want to upset the Boss so tells you bullshit to get you off his back.And this was a firm that we already had a business relationship with.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 06:03:30 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 26, 2016, 07:49:20 pmThis isn't limited to Chinese suppliers.Trying to get replacement parts from European Electronics manufacturers was a nightmare back in the 1980s/90s.They would wait till they could "piggyback" our order on a container going to Oz.This could take months--contrast this with Sony,who sent stuff next airfreight.And the European firms couldn't understand why we didn't buy their gear!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 08:22:01 am
content: Quote from: rich on February 26, 2016, 10:53:53 pmHey, at least someone has learned something from this thread! (And if it's only a bit of l33t speak...)

author: markone
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 04:35:38 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 27, 2016, 05:54:47 amI agree, with them this is the most common deal condition ... at bestAnyway, for common people buying expensive & delicate things abroad should be the last resort, almost all Ebay's oriental sellers are buy & die, the OP did all the possible nub's standard errors, including the scope's choice (most of Hantek's good are actually crap even if cheap) and there is still room for worsening.If the courier's custom office decide to ask for real payment receipt proof, as often it happens when things become stressed or suspicious, this whole matter would turn in a much more unpleseant way.As already sais here, it's still possible that the parcel takes its back route to china while the CC chargeback fails or simply that it results DOA after accepting it, becoming an expensive paperweight with the option to return it to an upset chinese seller.I cannot see anything worse ;-)If i buy something abroad it has to be a lot cheaper than local supplier, as it was with my first Rigol's scope (DS1022CD), paid less than one half than EU sellers ( tens years ago) despite huge import taxes (about 33%, including DHL shameless charges).Lately i stopped to buy things even from more trusted US seller for the simple reason that shipping & custom cost have increased disproportionately over the years, you cannot count simply on VAT and extra UE import fee ( 22% and 5%), custom office invoices often contains additional unexplainable markups and considering that everything come from US, regardless cost & size, fell under the relentless and ferocious care of customs, the game is almost over.With china sellers at least shipping cost are dirty cheap with registered signed for postal service, and we usually dodge custom fees if the parcel is small in size and the declared value is under 20-30 USD, as usually happen to be, while with couriers there is no escape.To finalize, that distressing moan for 16£ is simply ridiculous, it would be the last of the problems if we consider all the possible, above mentioned, issues.So dear OP, if you are *real* as i think, go out and pay the heavily discounted custom fee and try to learn something from all what the previous wise and experienced posters patiently told you.