Soldering Question Tinning 16 AWG wire - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 12:30:35 am
content: I have this station:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZK55NYC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1It's rated at 55 watts.Is there any reason I should have a hard time melting solder through 16 AWG wire to tin it? I'm using the tip that came with it but it also came with a much larger chisel tip, or do I need more power? It's pissin' me off!

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 01:13:11 am
content: Tip properly tinned and wire end fluxed? If so, and you've got the temperature set in the 350 to 370 deg C range, it shouldn't be struggling with a slightly over 1.2mm dia. wire unless the supplied tip is really long and skinny. Does the big tip help?OTOH if you are using heavily oxidised minimal flux core off-brand solder, no extra flux and the active surface of your tip is badly blackened anyone would struggle to tin a gold plated gnat's whisker.

author: bob91343
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 01:29:49 am
content: I bought some bargain solder from China and it wasn't working. Whatever flux they put in there just didn't do it. I complained and got a refund.I played with it for a while and with external flux it works okay. I didn't get what I paid for but occasionally it may be useful. So I guess the alloy is good but it needs to have flux.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 01:57:44 am
content: Yeah the tip is nice and clean. I always clean it after like very 1-2 joint. Clean and tin the tip before shutting it off.Here is a picture of the tips. I'm thinking about getting a little bigger angle tip too. I don't know what type of tips these are. Some people say the Hakko T18 series fits. I don't really know what size I should get. I think the one I have is even a little small for soldering LED strips using 20AWG wire. I think I would like it just a little larger and with a beveled flat side, instead of pointed tip for that task. It's always trying to slide off.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 02:35:26 am
content: For larger gauge wires, a bigger tip will help transfer the heat.Your tips seem small for the job.I have a HAKKO FX888D and mostly use chisel tips: (D08, D12 and D24)T18-D12 Shape-1.2D for general work.The D24 or D32 would be best for 16 gauge wire.(Dimension in mm)HAKKO tips descriptions:https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_t18.htmlYour two tips look like a round and a knife.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 02:58:46 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 16, 2020, 01:57:44 amOne tip is conical which has the worst thermal transfer, second is specialized blade tip. Get a usual chisel tip for usual jobs. Something like 2-2.4mm for general soldering and maybe 5mm for soldering heavy stuff.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 03:12:04 am
content: Melt some solder onto the tip first, just a small blob is fine, then touch that to the wire while adding more solder.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 03:47:25 am
content: A chisel soldering bit is normally reckoned to have a thin flat squared off end with two large flat sides, converging towards the tip. Its more like a flat bladed screwdriver than a wood chisel. IMHO small ones are pointless (bad pun, but I mean to use) as they don't do anything a small bevelled bit of the same width wont do with better heat transfer. Medium and large ones can be quite versatile if you want to heat several pins, or both ends of smaller SMD passives at the same time. You can to an extent abuse them when a smaller tip would usually be more appropriate by using the corner, narrow edge on. They suffer from the defect for PCB work that unless you are holding the iron vertically, its impossible to get any tip surface flat on the pad.A knife tip is generally like a chisel tip except with a sharper edge that isn't square on It removes the disadvantage that you cant get a flat surface onto the pad with the iron at a comfortable angle, and can be the best choice for drag soldering J lead packages and leadless packages with contacts extending up their sidesBeveled bits (aka: hoof bits) are usually conical behind the tip except for the maximum size bit the iron will take which will be straight sided. The intended working surface is the face, which should be applied flat to the joint for best heat transfer, They've got the most copper cross-section in the shaft meeting the working surface so give the best heat transfer possible for that tip width. In most cases an appropriately sized one should be your 'goto' bit.Conical tip ('pointy') bits are generally a PITA compared to bevel or chisel bits due to the small area you can get in contact with the work. They are occasionally useful for really small SMD parts, and dead bugging or generally soldering patch wires to fine pitch ICs,one pin at a time, or getting that obstinate solder whisker that's between two otherwise very nice joints. Most of the time however you'd be better off re-fluxing and re-dragging with a freshly wiped larger bit to remove bridges and whiskers en-masse.Straight sided reduced diameter and long conical bits of whatever tip shape are best avoided except for very light work where access for the tip is a problem as they just don't have the copper cross-section to deliver much heat at the tip, and turning the temperature up in an attempt to compensate makes it very hard to keep them well tinned, so a station with in-stand setback is essential.Other specialised tips exist, but as long as you stick to the principles of getting the largest face or straight edge that will fit on the pad or terminal flat to the work, (or overlap without hitting anything you don't want to melt),having the shortest thickest shank practical to get the most heat to the tip, you wont go far wrong.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 04:37:53 am
content: Quote from: rdl on July 16, 2020, 03:12:04 amAren't you suppose to hear the wire from the bottom to make sure both solder and wire are properly heated?

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 04:39:45 am
content: Quote from: wraper on July 16, 2020, 02:58:46 amYeah exactly. That specialized whatever it is I do not like. I think I will use it to cut PET sleeving and get the real chisel. Thanks.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 04:43:44 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 16, 2020, 03:47:25 amWow thanks for all of that. Super useful.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 04:46:43 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 16, 2020, 02:35:26 amHey thanks for the graphics and size rec too. Much appreciated.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 05:32:52 am
content: You guys really rock. Thanks so much for saving me two hours+ if rudimentary research on tips.I'm using this solder:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QDLPCK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1IT has good reviews. However, it's .08mm and I'm using this flux, which had good reviews:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS04SO4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1Sealody emailed me back and said 900M tips all fit, but I don't know what that means. I think it is a Hakko designation for a specific stations tip replacements.I'll buy a pack of tips, but I don't want to pay billions for them. Is there a Chinese brand on Amazon any of you would recommend or a specific set? (Have a hard time buying "HappyFlyCow" tips, you know?) It sounds like I need about 3 total tips for most everything, D series, D08, D12, D24, and D32.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 06:43:21 am
content: It will be 0.8mm not 0.08mm, which is about the thickness of a human hair!Solder thickness is important for a number of reasons, The smaller the diameter the greater the ratio of surface area to volume, so as the flux has to handle the surface oxides on the solder as well as those on the pin and pad, the more important it is that either everything is scrupulously clean, or that you use supplemental flux. Also the solder diameter needs to be reasonably well matched to the size of the joint. You need a small enough diameter that you can control the quantity of solder fed into the joint accurately, yet to complete the joint quickly without cooking it, you need to be able to feed the solder in one smooth movement, which practically limits you to the couple of inches you can feed the solder by finger and limited wrist movement without shifting your grip, and a lot less if you are steadying a part or wire either directly with or with a tool held by the remaining fingers of the hand holding the solder.IMHO 0.8mm is a bit on the fine side for general hookup work, but a reasonable compromise between the needs of lighter through-hole and larger package size and pin pitch SMD boards. Personally I favour 0.3mm for SMD work and 1.2mm for through-hole work, but I've got a lot of practice controlling the thicker solder and a novice working with larger SMD packages might well do better with 1mm and 0.5mm. If you are only doing a few joints far heavier than your thickest solder is convenient for, you can twist up three stands together to make it easier to feed in quantity.Chinese solder varies apparently randomly between reasonably good and absolute crap. I suspect that if its mostly made for their internal market, using 'virgin' metals, of the correct alloy composition, and with real flux its the good stuff, but there's a lot of 'export special' grade solder made with poorly recycled metals of dubious purity, to the wrong composition, slanted in favour of the cheapest component of the alloy, and with an insufficient core of vaguely flux-like resin, or wax. Then the counter guy at some hole-in-the-wall wire and solder shop in Shenzhen slaps whatever brand labels the export eSeller wants on reels of whatever grade they are willing to pay for.If you are lucky, one of our USA members may be willing to post you an envelope containing a couple of feet each of different types and diameters of good quality western manufactured leading brand solders, each labelled with exactly what it is including the order code if known, so you can see the difference the 'good stuff' makes before ordering yourself a 500g reel of whichever you like best.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 07:16:33 am
content: I have been usingKester - 44 RA Solder Wire, .031" dia., Core Size-66 Sn63Pb37because it is an eutectic alloy.The 0.031" diameter is a good general purpose size. I would recommend a smaller size for SMD work."The words eutectic solder describe a solder alloy that melts and freezes at one single temperature."That means less chance of cold solder joints. It doesn't have that in-between state of 60/40 where it's half melted.I don't do lead-free.I picked up someNC-559-ASM Fluxwhich is pretty easy to clean. It's a pain to apply. I use a toothpick.One of those flux pens might be a better choice. I need to try them myself.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 04:06:27 pm
content: Having a small amount of solder on the tip, which is already melted and hot, will greatly increase the heat transfer when touched to the wire. Top or bottom doesn't really matter. Just hold it on the wire a second or so, then apply more solder as needed to tin the wire.Quote from: DW1961 on July 16, 2020, 04:37:53 am

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 07:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 16, 2020, 06:43:21 amI'm sold on the 63/37 after just reading about it. I have run almost all the way through the 60/40 50G bail I bought at about 8 bucks. So, thinking again about price, that 1lb roll of Kester for 27.00 US is HUGELY cheaper than what I paid for that 60/40. In fact, it's almost half the price.I'm not going to be soldering SMDs themselves, but strips together using 16-22 AWG wire onto LED pads and maybe some circuitry later on. That's about as small as I will be soldering. So what do you think would be a good all around solder for joints of that size? Would 1MM be good?Thanks for the twisted solder tip.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2020, 08:07:19 pm
content: Just wanted to say also that I used that big angle knife blade tip I have and WOW, I held it under the 16 AWG wire and it melted the solder on top in about 3 seconds. Worked great. I had the iron set to 330C I think, but it could be off a few. ANyway, it was as you all said, too small of a tip and I think that is why I was having some problems getting wires into the LED strip pads. I'm going to order some new bigger tips ASAP.The station I have above in compatible with Hakko 900M.Anyone have any experience with the cheaper Chinese tips? I guess I could buy one of the Hakko tips for 10 bucks, then compare it to the cheaper Chinese tips? I've read where a good tip is the most important part of soldering. As long as your station heats up and can maintain heat when soldering, the tip is the whole ball game.I've seen bare copper tips too (Looks like all copper sheathing). Any suggestions before I buy?

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 12:12:56 am
content: Can't seem to find 1mm Kester solder on Amazon 6337 unless I want to wait a month for it to ship. I wanted to buy a 1lb rteel, but hmmm.Anyway, I found thehttps://www.amazon.com/RadioShack-Rosin-Core-Solder-0-050-Diameter/dp/B007Z7MLP8/ref=sr_1_21?dchild=1&keywords=63%2F37+.04&qid=1594944104&s=industrial&sr=1-21Radio Shack brand 1mm.That ok? That will get me through until I can get the Kester stuff? I can find the Kester `lb in .8mm, but I wanted to try the 1mm. I think the .8 is a little small.I can get the MG chemicals 6337 3.3% flux (like Kester) in 1/2 lb for 19 bucks. Not as cheap as the Kester 1lb for 25, but it's available in the size I want. MGC any good?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 01:53:08 am
content: I bought mine at All-Spec some time ago.They currently don't have much Kester but do have a lot of Alpha brand.Haven't used the Alpha brand so can't say anything about it. It's probably okay though.All-Spec Sn63Pb37 Solder

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 01:56:24 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 16, 2020, 07:16:33 amThat link is to Kester 44 but when I click on it it coughs up the Kester 24 no clean flux. The 44 Rosin Flux is what you want, right?

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 02:19:57 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 17, 2020, 01:56:24 amThat's not what I get.But, you can compare the part number with Digikey:Kester 24-6337-0027 Solder RollAre you referring to part number:Kester 24-6337-8800

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:07:14 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 17, 2020, 01:53:08 amAlpha Metals is a top-tier solder manufacturer.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:13:42 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 16, 2020, 06:43:21 amYou really like using thick solder, it seems! 1mm and thicker are what was common in the days of point to point wiring, and was already on the thick side for most through-hole PCB work.0.7-0.8mm is what I (and many others) consider ideal for most modern THT work. I also have 0.3 and 0.5 for fine work. (I mostly use a drag soldering tip and flux for SMD, so I’m rarely applying wire solder to it.)

author: trevatxtal
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:19:09 am
content: Something to remember!When new the solder has a film of oil on it to facilitate drawing and to reduce oxidization.Solder oxidizes over time as the oil evaporates.To guarantee no poor tinning from contaminants use wire wool to bring up the solder to a shine.Have available two types of flux one rosin for copper to copper base and the other for lead-free solder, use it if you have difficulty on soldering"" Nicol "" tags or contacts (clean afterwards)Happy Flowing.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 06:32:56 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 17, 2020, 02:19:57 amOn the Kester webpage they have series 24 and series 44.https://www.kester.com/products/product/44-flux-cored-wireThe 44 seems like what you'd want? It's the yellow label type. The one you liked is the tan strip type or series 24, yes. Which one do you get?The one I want is Kester product number (from the Kester Website) 2463370039. It's the 44 series, 6337 and 1mm. Can't find it unless I want to wait two weeks for it.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 06:48:33 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 17, 2020, 05:13:42 amI can get the reel of Kester 6337 .8mm (.031") 44 series, just not the 1mm. Seems it isn't nearly as popular. Maybe I should just stick to the .8mm?How about for general electronics, like fixing things on speakers, like a croos over, or replacing a bad volume control, or computer motherboard sized stuff?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 03:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 17, 2020, 06:32:56 amThere is no Kester 24 flux/solder. There is a 245, though, which is no-clean. But bear in mind that the part numbers do NOT begin with the flux number, as explained above.Quote from: DW1961 on July 17, 2020, 06:48:33 amThe .031”/0.8mm Kester 44 63/37 is exactly the solder that I use at home as my everyday solder, and exactly what I’d recommend to someone just beginning to figure out what solders they need. I rarely use the really thin stuff, and the really thick stuff I use almost exclusively for just tinning tips.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:01:45 pm
content: Kester 24-6337-0027is 44 RA core flux <--This is what I use.Kester 24-6337-8800is 245 No-Clean fluxBoth types have a part number of 24.You want the one that ends in -0027.And I too like the 0.031"/0.8mm size for general soldering.That said, it is a little too big for SMD work.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:23:20 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 17, 2020, 05:01:45 pmSo you both think 1mm is a little too big? If so, that means I can order the Kester reel then becasue I am already using .8mm size!Also, why do you prefer the RA over the No Clean? On the Kester website it says, "The use of 245 (No Clean) results in visually acceptable assemblies without cleaning, yet soldering quality and efficiency is comparable to that obtained with mildly activated rosin flux. " Is the 44 RA more aggressive flux than "mild?"

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 05:34:03 pm
content: Yes, the 44 is a more active flux, so it’ll be better for components that have oxidation. Theoretically riskier to leave on a board than no-clean, but for most applications, it can be left on with no deleterious effects, even long term. It’s just visible amber residue. No-clean will have less conspicuous flux residues. (But generally speaking, no-clean fluxes are harder to remove if you do choose to clean them.)I don’t even own 1mm solder. I have some hand-me-down 1.5mm used only for tinning. For actual soldering the 0.8mm is the thickest I use, and by far the most frequently used. I also have (between different alloy types) 0.6, 0.4, and 0.25 or something.Ever since I got a drag soldering tip (the kind with a well that just kinda sucks up excess solder), I rarely use anything thin, since I can deposit the right amount by reflowing with that and flux paste.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 06:18:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 17, 2020, 05:34:03 pmWell going to order the Kester spool then. Thanks.Any suggestions for tip brand? I was going to buy some of the cheaper Chinese stuff, but heard tip is everything. I guess I could buy one Hakko tip first before buying the assorted Chinese tips? As suggestion, the best all around tip for me is probably the D type chisel at about 2.4mm? Once again, no such animal on Amazon in Hakko T18 F 2.4. SO sick of this virus crap.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 06:58:41 pm
content: Checkout tEquipment and their 6% discount for EEVBlog members.https://www.tequipment.net/HakkoT18-D24.html?v=0

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 07:10:31 pm
content: I guess what you learned with has a large impact. I learned with thick solder and a 'firestick' iron. My mentors were amongst others, an early medical physics technician, a merchant marine radio operator who had served on the Murmansk convoys, and a greatuncle who'd graduated in physics, then when the CO of the TA AA battery in Hyde park spotted him using a slide rule to check calculations his request to transfer to the regular army was denied as he was deemed too valuable to transfer to a fighting regiment and instead was seconded to Malvern to work with the Radar boffins.They were definitely from the point to point chassis era, though by the time I was starting in the service trade, just about every set had paxolin PCBs and valves were very much on the way out. I up-skilled over the years to cope with the increasing miniaturisation till ever-cheaper 'house' brand TVs sold in supermarkets more or less killed the general service trade.0.8mm is as I said earlier a reasonably good choice for through hole work on modern PCBs with small pads, and is - with a steady enough hand workable for coarse pitch SMD. I personally find it too thin for general wiring work, especially if you are dealing with tagstrips, turret terminals, western union splices, and larger bucket terminals. YMMV, especially if you initially leaned to solder with 0.8mm.One of the few remaining advantages of 1.2mm if you re *NOT* working with large terminals, is due to the clear difference in diameters, you are far less likely to pick up a short length of tinned copper from the bench, mistaking it for a solder offcut, and burn grooves in your finger tips from the conducted heat when trying to get it to flow into a joint!You cant go far wrong with one of Kester's rosin flux core offerings, and their RA core residue is likely to cause less long term damage than 'off-brand' RMA core.Edit: fixed a 'spellchucker' mixup and clarified.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 07:29:51 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 17, 2020, 07:10:31 pmI can get the 1mm in MG Chemicals solder 6337. It doesn't have as much flux in it as Kester does though. It has 2.2%. The Kester is 3.3%. It comes in 1/2 lb for 20 bucks. It's more expensive than teh KEster for 1lb, at 31 bucks. I wish Kester sold 1/2lb. I can get 1 lb of the Kester for 26.00. I'm wondering if I would actually see a big difference between .8mm and 1mm solder?

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 07:42:40 pm
content: How long did it take you to use up most of the 50g tiny reel or dispenser to have at the moment? Look forward ten times that period, and if you still expect to be 'into' electronics the Kester is the better deal and for most uses willbe a joy to work with.OTOH MG chemicals are a well respected brand and make good solder, and comparing 1mm to 0.8mm, you'll only have to feed 2/3 the length for the same size solder joint, so if you don't mind paying 30% more weight for weight, its a reasonable choice.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 08:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on July 17, 2020, 07:42:40 pmI don't know how much by weight I have left but I can see the bare reel now, so pretty fast. What about the difference in flux % between MGC and Kester?Also, any suggestion for the cheaper Chinese tips on Amazon? I have a Hakko T18 D1.2 ready to go. Just need a cheaper 2.4 and 3.2 tip. Are all the Chinese tip garbage?I was using this:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QDLPCK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1But after reading about how good solder should I have my doubts now, and it's like 1.8% flux too. At 7.59 for 50 grams, it comes out far more expensive than teh Kester 1lb same diamter solder. It's 68.00 for 1lb ! Sure, the price would come down in bulk, but forget it.I just ordered the KESTER SOLDER 24-6337-0027 wire and the American Hakko T18-D12 Tiphttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DE2QVIG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004OR6BU8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1Now I just need to find a Chinese 2.4 and 3.2 for tinning the 16-18 gauge wire and the small amount of soldering I will do at that size.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 09:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 17, 2020, 07:29:51 pmIMHO it’s a huge difference.I would also buy genuine chisel tips in 1.6-2mm and 2.4-3.2mm. The 1.2mm you got is a useful size for small things, but I find I use my 1.6mm and 2.4mm tips a lot, while I don’t use 1.2mm as much.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 11:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 17, 2020, 09:05:00 pmWell, poop. I guess I can try to cancel the order for the tip then. Mainly I am currently doing pad to wire soldering so a 1/16th inch tip can be a little large. I did buy the Hakko chisel tip.I definitely need those sizes. 10 bucks, 10 bucks, 10 bucks.Have you ever used the Chinese off brands that are like flies on S*** on Amazon? I just read where someone said a cheap soldering station can perform like a 400 dollar soldering station, as long as it can keep its temp, with just a high quality tip.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2020, 11:48:06 pm
content: The T18-D12 tip will be just fine. The 1.2mm is a good all-around size.I use that size for 90% of my soldering (through hole and some SMD).The only time I would want a different tip would be for small SMD work.A bigger 2.4mm or 3.2mm would be nice to have on hand also for the big stuff.For really big stuff, I use an old 100W Weller soldering gun.You are over thinking the whole thing.The only bad thing I've heard of the knock-off brands is the hole dimension.The knock-offs tend to fit loose on the heating element.The HAKKO tip you linked to on Amazon is a little pricey.Most of the average size T18 tips can be found for $6.00.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 01:08:38 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 17, 2020, 11:48:06 pm"You are over thinking the whole thing."I have a tendency to do that, for sure."The HAKKO tip you linked to on Amazon is a little pricey."It seems pricey until you pay the shipping from the other sites. The one you linked was around 5.87 but with ground shipping it was 15.36. A little less with the discounts.As far as hole dimensions, I'll try to research that before I buy a pack of those cheaper ones, then. I've heard they don't, generally, have as much copper cross section in them, so they don't heat like a nice, name brand tip. No way to verify that though.I just bagged this HAKKO T18D24 Free Prime shipping Monday for a total of $9.32. So I have the Hakko 1.2 and the 2.4. I think I'll stop now until I use them and see if I think I need something else."For really big stuff, I use an old 100W Weller soldering gun."I usually use this for my larger needs:SAW Automatic Welding Machine

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 03:36:59 am
content: Checkout the All-Spec site for HAKKO tips.You need to purchase enough to make the shipping worth while.Their Sierra ESD mats are nice.You need one of these for those big soldering requirements:

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 04:42:47 am
content: I just saw this and can answer a few of your questions.The actual Hakko tips are vastly superior to the dime-a-dozen generic ones, at least in my genuine FX-888. I got some to try and they are good for woodburning and melting plastic.If you aren't ordering anything else and don't want to pay shipping, you can get Hakko tips with free shipping (on soldering and desoldering tips only) at:https://gokimco.com/specialsI also have 10+ rolls of solder and the Kester stuff others are telling you to buy is the way to go. I use .020 (0.5mm) more, but .031 (0.8mm) will work fine for almost any non-SMD application.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 04:52:20 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 18, 2020, 03:36:59 amI was actually looking for something like that 3/4" 1000 amp welder. lol.Do you use the sponge or the bronze cleaner or both? Also, can you clean those brass cleaners, or just toss them and when to toss them? Will any sponge work?I watched a lot of Youtube videos on those two cleaning types, but no mention of when to get rid of either the sponge or the brass. I tired cleaning the brass type with Mineral Spirits, then Isopropyl alcohol, then Good Off. Goof Off was the best. Nothing really cleaned it off quickly. Depending on how soon you swap them out, it may not be worth cleaning them.I was also looking at that other cheap solder I have, and the joints are pasty and not clean and smooth looking, no matter how hot I got the solder. That stuff is just shit.Glad I had this conversation with you all. Can't wait for my new Lester 6337 and Hakko tips to get here.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 05:17:02 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 18, 2020, 04:42:47 amThat Kimco site is nice. No reason to buy cheap tips when can get Hakko cheaper on that Kimco site. I have the 2.4 and 1.2 coming. I'll see if I actually need anything else before ordering another tip, then just get it from Kimco. I cheeked solder and it would be 35 for a lb instead of 26 from Amazon (shipping again). Even if I pay the same at Kimco for the tips, I can get the exact size I want.This solder I bought from Amazon is crap. Pasty looking joints no matter how hot I get it. Just crap. I'm tossing it right now.https://www.amazon.com/WYCTIN-Solder-Electrical-Soldering-0-11lbs/dp/B072QDLPCK/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Solder%2B6040&qid=1595049376&sr=8-2&th=1

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 06:07:26 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 17, 2020, 11:15:27 pmNope, I don’t use Hakko, and the stations I use (at home and work) aren’t ones for which third-party tips are available. Not that I’d really consider using off-brand tips anyway.If I were on a really tight budget, I’d use a knockoff station with genuine tips. But honestly, the older I get, the less patience I have for shitty tools, and have fully gone towards the “buy a good tool once” approach. (And the same with consumables, where it’s rarely worth scrimping.)I agree that you’re really overthinking all of this. Just get some stuff to start with and go at it. You’ll quickly figure out what works and what doesn’t, and what things you want to try next. In the end, you’ll end up with everything anyway over the years.As for tip cleaning, I recently saw something about what soldering sponges don’t contain, which I suppose is better for tip life. But I haven’t used a wet sponge in years, I prefer the brass wool. It is a consumable — other than shaking out the crumbs and fluffing it up occasionally, I don’t perform any maintenance on it. It gets worn out and full of solder and will eventually need replacement. At just a few bucks a pop, it’s not worth your time to dick around with it beyond the aforementioned shaking out and fluffing every few months.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 06:19:01 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 18, 2020, 04:52:20 amThe hotter you solder, the faster your flux burns off, the faster the solder oxidizes, and the faster the solder dissolves substrate metal, all giving you less time before a dull joint becomes inevitable. As a rule of thumb, you want to solder as cool as possible, but as hot as needed to produce the joint quickly (2-3 secs typically), since long heating will cause damage.Have you watched the soldering (and desoldering/rework) videos from Pace Worldwide? They’re as old as I am, but IMHO unparalleled in their instructional quality. Theywillimprove your soldering skill:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL958FF32927823D12https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=FLT5e-XjqHPfA3_9wF3CgY1w(Marc Siegel was one of the owners of Pace)https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ4bp4FXracL-vD26gqx3HqpK7pLcoZZ3

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 09:14:25 am
content: I use both a sponge and brass wool.However, don't just pour water on the sponge like I've seen Dave do.I take my sponge to the sink and drown it in water.And then, VERY IMPORTANT, squeeze as much of the water out as you can before use.You only want a damp sponge. Not a soaking wet one.Excess water in the sponge is bad for your tips. Plus the thermal shock of the water.I use the brass wool when the tip is real dirty and has flux buildup.For me, the sponge gets the tip cleaner than the wool.I also put solder on the tip before putting it back in the holder. (Might be bad)I do get a lot of flux buildup at the top edge of the tinned line on the tip.If you have a bad solder joint, add a little dab of flux paste and reheat.Better than adding too much solder.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 09:34:55 am
content: Insane soldering by NASA.Be sure to watch the entire series.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 10:34:28 am
content: As Mark said, squeezing out the spoge is important, and here's another good reason: By thoroughly wetting the sponge and squeezing it out, you remove water soluble contaminates, a significant proportion of any particulates, and vastly reduces the buildup of any minerals from your tapwater. If you just damp the sponge in situ, all the dirt in the sponge continues to build up and all the minerals in the water are deposited as it dries out.Most meltable plastics are really bad for your tip. If you get any on the tip, clean and re-tin it immediately as if you leave them there, you risk a wetting failure, where a layer of oxides and char build up on the surface of the bit's plating, preventing fresh solder from wetting the surface.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 11:39:30 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 18, 2020, 09:14:25 amAnd it should be distilled water.But honestly, the brass wool is nicer.Putting more solder on the tip before resting is a decidedly good idea. It does cause more flux crusties, but they don’t harm the tip as such, and can be scraped off. The payoff of protecting the tip from oxidation is well worth it IMHO.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 05:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 18, 2020, 06:07:26 amThat's exactly what I am doing. I bought a Sealody (As linked above) after reading reviews of it and watching a Youtube tear down of it, but I am now using the Hakko tips. (As soon as they get here. And no more crappy solder, ever.I have used both the sponge and brass and I like the brass better to. I guess my thinking was off becasue the brass only fills up with flux and solder, so the flux build up should be a good thing, not something to clean out. Solder build up, as you said, eventually means replacement. So I can just use the brass until it is too full of solder, right?One reason I 'overthink' things is because I realize how much more their really is to things like this. For instance, the solder quality and the importance of a good tip. I'm ready now though.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 05:30:02 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 18, 2020, 06:19:01 amI'm going to watch those today, thanks. The first thing I did was get the iron as cool as I cold and have the solder completely liquefy, but it doesn't matter what the heat is, it's just crap solder. I also put flux directly on the joints to try and help it.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 05:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 18, 2020, 09:14:25 amThat's exactly what I do with my sponge too. Read elsewhere exactly what you said--too much water is bad for the tip (drops heat and then expands rapidly). I've been tinning the tip before I shut the machine off. Thanks for the flux/bad joint tip. Nice.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 06:24:03 pm
content: If you are willing to waste a little time and have a sensitive balance (pref. 0.01g or better resolution) you could determine if your dodgy solder is a grossly incorrect composition by casting a smallish slug of it (to eliminate the flux core), cleaning off all flux residue and char and any obvious oxidisation, then weighing it in air and suspended in water, to calculate its density byArchimedes' principle.The easiest way of suspending it is by soldering it (with the same solder) to a very fine copper wire that has previously been weighed so its mass can be subtracted, before you dry weigh it, and when you weigh it immersed, minimise the immersed length of wire while still fully submerging the slug, so you can neglect the buoyancy of the immersed wire. Wiping the slug with dilute detergent before immersion will aid wetting and minimise the risk of air bubbles giving a false reading.If you don't have a hanging pan balance, you can hang the sample from a tongue depressor or similar overhanging the edge of the balance pan and balance body, with a weight on the other end to balance it. Choose and position the weight so the total load on the balance pan is fairly near its center.If all you've got is a 0.1g resolution balance you'll need a much larger slug, say 20g, to get similar accuracy.Once you've got the density, you can compare with the theoretical density calculated from the nominal composition and the densities of the pure metals. seehttps://www.hotwires.net/calculating-solder-alloy-density/for formulae. According to Indium corp. the measured density should be within a percent or two of the calculated density, the difference being mostly due to the formation of intermetalics.It may well turn out that it is 60/40 solder but Pb60/Sn40. At current market prices with tin being approx 9.6 times more expensive than lead that's a 28% saving in materials cost. As there are legitimate uses for Pb60/Sn40 - General purpose solder for sheet metal, wiping and joining lead pipes, cable sheaths, radiator cores and heating units - as long as its labelled '60/40' and not Sn60/Pb40 or any variant thereof, and the seller didn't specifically tell you its Sn60/Pb40, as far as any claim against the seller goes, you might as well piss up a rope!

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 07:42:34 pm
content: I think the biggest take-away here is that "Size Matters"."Oops. Did I say that out loud?"Using a too small tip can not transfer enough heat to a large joint.Match the tip size to the job.The rest, solder and flux, are more just experience and trial-and-error.You can pretty much any work. The differences are more easy of use than anything.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 08:20:32 pm
content: Quote from: MarkF on July 18, 2020, 07:42:34 pmThat small tip I have that came with the iron is just too small, even for soldering 22 AWG wire to the LED strip pad, I think. I may end up getting the 1.6mm Hakko chisel tip too.I have the 1.2 and the 2.4mm (1/16th") coming. The size of the pads is different on different LED strips. The one I have right now is 1/16th, so I thought the 1/2mm tip would be about right for that. It still might be too small, but the 2.4mm is too big, as it is larger than the pad. Like you said, just trial and error now. I have good tips and solder.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 08:29:37 pm
content: The next time you place an order, I recommend you get one of these to try:https://gokimco.com/hakko-t18-s7-beveled-solder-tip-1-20mm.htmlThis covers 90% of my uses and is perfect for through-hole components of almost all sizes.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2020, 09:36:45 pm
content: QuoteThis is true.But I don't need the tip to be that clean very often, and it's inconvenient for me to keep the sponge damp. I use brass wool, and when I need the tip to be super clean/dry, I press it against some solderwick.I have a little business card sized bit of fiberboard with strips of solderwick on it and rosin flux soaked all into the surface. The stuff that the PCB fabs use as sacrificial CNC bed before it gets recycled as shipping material when they send you your boards, that works great for this. If you slit brass tubing, you can slide it over the edges of the card and solder the wick across this solderable brass edging. The flux glues the solderwick down when it dries, so it doesn't shift. Another layer of fiberboard on the bottom keeps the tubing off the bench to prevent the board from bending when you press the iron in the middle of the board. This card can last years before the wick has to be replaced. As long as you use the brass wool, first.The brass wool is great because it requires so little maintenance. Solder bits, extra components you want to get rid of. They just collect in the bottom of the wool holder. This whole mess only needs to be dumped out once every few years or so, and in the interim you don't see any of this junk.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 12:08:28 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on July 18, 2020, 08:29:37 pmI will. Everyone was saying just use the chisel tip, so that's what I got.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 01:16:55 am
content: I find wires extremely annoying to solder unless you drip flux on them first from a bottle (pen sucks)

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2020, 03:13:00 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 19, 2020, 01:16:55 amFreshly stripped or old and grimy? This is less mess for those not-quite-new wires:https://www.allelectronics.com/item/sp-802/rosin-soldering-flux/1.html

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 06:11:11 pm
content: Just an update.I did get a pack of those cheap Chinese tips. I have my Hakko 1.2 and 2.4 chisel tips too. So, I tinned some wire with one of the cheapo tips and that seemed t work fine. However, when I installed the cheapo brand 1.2m chisel tip and tried to solder wires onto my LED strips, no way! I just could not get the solder to melt or flow. I turned my machine to 325C and still it was just an exercise in frustration. I started thinking I just wasn't cut out for soldering.Then yesterday I put on the Hakko 1.2m chisel tip, and holy crap! Almost instant melt at 325C, and I turned my machine down to 315C and still instant melt and flow.I thought something must have changed, perhaps I got better, or something, so I reinstalled the cheapo 1.2m and the same thing--just horrible trying to get it to flow or even melt. It was even worse trying to remelt the solder to pull the wire off. It just would not do it unless I let the tip sit there for like 5-8 seconds. The Hakko tip remelted the joints in the same time it took to attach them, which was like less than a second at 315C. I couldn't believe the joints I was getting with the Hakko tips. I mean, solid, flowing, perfectly formed shiny joints. So, it wasn't me after all.Anyway, the lesson learned is that those cheap tips can make your soldering life hell, so DON'T use them--for anyone in my situation looking for information.I currently have the Hakko T18 1.2and 2.4 tips, and I'm thinking about getting two more. I want to try the beveled tip also. Someone above said he uses the beveled tips and really likes them vs chisel tips. Before I buy a couple more tips, anything I should consider?Since I have the T 1.2 and 2.4, I'm not really sure what size I should get, especially for the bevel tips.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 07:52:48 pm
content: Chances are the tolerances in the cheap tips are so bad that the tip barely makes contact with the heater.Me, I don’t see the point in wasting time on that cheap stuff, and this is a perfect example of how really bad tools can discourage someone from what should be a fulfilling hobby!

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 11:07:57 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 10, 2020, 07:52:48 pmYep, and it did that to me too. Never again. I was actually getting depressed because of a bad Fing tool!I just ordered three more Hakko tips from Kimco.I wanted a 45 degree angle beveled tip in 1.2m but I don't think they make it. They make the 45 degree in 2mm. I got a beveled 1.3mm "S" which is thinner in the tip section, which I didn't really want, but again, they don't make the 1.2 normal bevel tip. So, it's probably not going to transfer as much hat, but the bevel tip does transfer more heat than chisel tips at the point of contact--according to Hakko. After I get my order from Kimco, I'll have this assortment:All are T18 tips:1.2D Chisel1.3 S6 Beveled (Slim) -- And, this is 60Degrees, not 45 like I wanted. I couldn't find the 1.2 or 1.3 bevel in normal C configuration (and better, BC config).1.6D Chisel2.4D Chisel3.0C Bevel

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2020, 11:10:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 10, 2020, 07:52:48 pmThew bigger tip worked pretty well to tin wire. The smaller are just garbage. I'll keep them around for burning holes in plastic for a project or something like that. I'm telling you, the 1.2 bevel cheapo brand was night and day, not just slightly different, but like unworkable to attach 22 AWG to LED strip pads. Horrible.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2020, 11:35:53 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on September 10, 2020, 11:07:57 pmLooks like a good basic assortment that'll work well for all your everyday soldering.If you get into drag soldering, consider getting a drag soldering tip (they go by various names like spoon, well, etc.; I don't know what Hakko calls them), the kind that look like a bevel, but the beveled surface itself is concave, allowing it to hold onto a drop of solder, yanking any excess back into the concave recess. I love mine. I also find a knife tip (aka PLCC blade, etc) to be useful. Great for tidying up excess solder from QFNs and PLCC LEDs.Quote from: DW1961 on September 10, 2020, 11:10:08 pmHaving somebeatertips to melt plastic with is actually a great idea, since it's my understanding that burned plastic will actually cause long-term damage to soldering tips, so you don't wanna use your good tips for it. The beater tips are good for heat staking, melting together broken bits of plastic, pressing brass threaded inserts into 3D prints, etc.