Can I get my lead back, please? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 12:42:56 am
content: [This is just a general rant about living in the EU]So, the other day, I ran out of solder (again) and, given that I live in the middle of nowhere in Luxembourg (which in itself is the middle of nowhere already), I went on the interweb to get me some new one, in my preferred flavour, which is Stannol Sn60Pb39Cu1.By the way, it's not the first time going through this process, and it's not the last time, I figured. (you won't believe what happened next)So, I used to buy my solder either from Conrad, who are basically Europe's answer to Radioshack, or Voelkner, their subsidiary (with exactly the same warehouse).[Side note: if you find yourself ordering parts n' stuff in Germany, do it on Voelkner or Reichelt, NOT on Conrad. Not an endorsement, Conrad are just too expensive]This time, I found that they had completely dropped every leaded solder in their offering.On Reichelt, which are their biggest commpetitor, at least in Germany, I did find leaded solder, but only 60/40, which I don't particularly like, and some other obscure mixtures, which I don't know.So I googled for it and Lo and behold, it pops up on Amazon, for three times the price that I used to pay, while the lead free stuff has just gotten dirt cheap.Now, I know about RoHS compliance, but as far as I know, home gamers were always exempt from the lead ban so far. What it looked like to me, with the sudden price increase is that the people are buying and horting the stuff for some reason, but I have not heard of a recent change in law.Did I miss something here? And where did leaded solder suddenly go?Do I have to switch now? This seems scary...Or does anyone by chance know what online retailer carries that type of solder? (Or even better, that exact brand, I am a bit peculiar in that respect)On a different note, I have heard, that you are not supposed to use leaded solder to repair a leadfree board, or even to not use leaded and unleaded solder with the same soldering tips; though I have now a substantial set of tips for my station, all used with leaded stuff so far (I know, silly me).Is it advisable or even necessary to replace them if I switch solder types?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 01:16:13 am
content: Quote from: Random Model Maker on March 21, 2018, 12:42:56 amInteresting, in the US I see no significant price difference between the two. If anything, lead free appears to be marginally more expensive, but it is hard to compare at this level, it is probably due to individual sellers.There may not be enough demand in your region, so people don't stock leaded stuff.Quote from: Random Model Maker on March 21, 2018, 12:42:56 amI would call BS on this. It is probably necessary if you want to pass some RoHS certification or something, but there is no technical reason to do any of this.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 01:30:50 am
content: I would have some concerns about mixing random metallurgies of solder. The lead free types have a variety of bases and when you mix in something else unknown there may be weird reliability effects. Fatigue fracturing or whatnot. Probably not a concern for most projects since they won't be subjected to lots of extreme temperature cycles and won't be expected to work perfectly after a couple of decades of exposure, but worth thinking about for some applications.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 01:42:48 am
content: I want to slap the guy who named it "Conrad" and not "Konrad".Idc if it's his last name, that last name is stupid. I know because my name is Konrad. I am less stupid than he is in name alone.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 02:38:54 am
content: Funny we used to have a TV/electronics store here called Conrad's. They also had ice cream and rented movies. We brought our TV there once to get it fixed. Big wooden CRT. Good old days when you actually got stuff repaired.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 03:07:09 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on March 21, 2018, 02:38:54 amCould be the same lot or related, Conrad (yes, it is a family name) had their origins in the Radio and TV industry as "Radio Conrad" in 1923 im Berlin.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 03:59:12 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 21, 2018, 01:16:13 amSee my comments on cleaning a 'leaded' bit before using Pb-free solder in reply #5 ofhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/death-on-a-soldering-iron-tip!/Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 21, 2018, 01:30:50 amAlthough most tin based Pb-free solders with silver or copper as the next highest proportion in the alloy are reasonably compatible, if you aren't sure what's there, its advisable to wick as much as possible of the old solder off the joint then remake with fresh, rather than touching up the joint and potentially mixing incompatible alloys.If you know its something potentially incompatible like a low melting point alloy, you have to decide whether tinning the pad with the solder you are going to use, then wicking it clean again to reduce contamination from the previous alloy, is worth the extra risk of pad damage.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:35:05 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 21, 2018, 01:16:13 amIf you want to sell into the EU zone, you need to meet RoHS 2 and actually be able to prove your device meets the standard. A 3rd rev is in the works too for enforcement starting next year or so.. actually was published back in 15 but with a 4 year grace or so i think it was anyway

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:36:41 am
content: Quote from: Elasia on March 21, 2018, 06:35:05 amThe question was about home gamers. You can make and sell whatever you want in that case.

author: Elasia
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 07:14:10 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on March 21, 2018, 06:36:41 amCant escape supply and demand curves though... all mfgs have to quit using it so way less finds its way to the euro zone making it cost more.. however might be a good money maker for someone if a large imbalance has setup and there is enough demand in the hobbyist space

author: Daixiwen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 07:53:37 am
content: Quote from: Random Model Maker on March 21, 2018, 12:42:56 amYou can "convert" tips that were used with leaded solder. Just clean them, cover them with leadfree solder, clean them again and repeat the process a few times. At the end there should be a negligible amount of the old solder, and it's good enough to use with leadfree (well except if your believe in homoeopathy)

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 09:09:18 am
content: Quote from: Random Model Maker on March 21, 2018, 12:42:56 amWhat type of flux? Just a wild guess, is it HS10? Because, if so, it's not the 1% Copper content that you like, it's the aggressive halogenated flux type ROM1 what makes it flowing that well. It's generally not recommended for electronics use, it's more an electricians type solder wire. But if you want something comparable I would try Felders "RA" type solder wires, they behave basically the same:https://www.ersa-shop.com/isocore-l%C3%B6tdraht-ssn60pb40-schmelzbereich-183%C2%B0190%C2%B0c-flussmittelgehalt-nach-29454112b-rom1-fsw26-p-2319.html500g roll 0.75mm diameter ~18€

author: Random Model Maker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 11:04:21 am
content: Quote from: Augustus on March 21, 2018, 09:09:18 amHS10 indeed, as far as I recall. It might not be, as the label on my spools has turned illegible over time, but it's the orange label, which is generally the halogenated stuff.I know it's a bit aggressive for electronics, but I use it for the odd metal joint sometimes.

author: Wolfram
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 01:02:22 pm
content: As far a I know, there has not been any dramatic price increase in leaded solder lately. Distributors seem to be very inconsistent in which alloys they stock, and solder on amazon seems to generally be expensive. I was looking for some Kester 44 recetly, and the prices at Amazon were more or less twice compared to Mouser and Digi-Key. There is some Sn60Pb39Cu1 HS10 on eBay for a pretty reasonable price:https://www.ebay.de/itm/Lotzinn-250-Gramm-Lotdraht-Durchmesser-1-mm-Sn60Pb39CU1-Typ-2630-von-Stannol/311952316760?hash=item48a1ce9958:g:NuIAAOSwTA1aq3-phttps://www.ebay.de/itm/SMD-Lotzinn-250-Gramm-0-7mm-Sn60Pb39CU1-Typ-2630-Herstellen-Stannol/311952315526?epid=23015559061&hash=item48a1ce9486:g:ZhoAAOSwlrFaq4F7

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 02:37:33 pm
content: I'm somewhat agog at the concerns about using different solders with the same tips. I'd love to know what the issue is with mixing them is purported to be. Other than you might get traces of lead on your board and fail an inspection which is certainly not an issue for a hobbyist.I have 60-40, 63-37 Pb-Sn solders as well as 62-36-2 Pb-Sn-Ag. I bought the latter for use on the ceramic tiepoints in a Tek 455. It was my understanding at the time that the Ag was needed to bond properly with the ceramic forms. I think those were formed by silver plating the ceramic forms.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 03:35:12 pm
content: I think the concern is about accidentally producing a new alloy, by mixing two or more other alloys, that has undesirable properties. You kind of make the point with solders for soldering things with silver plating - get that wrong and you get silver migration from the part into the solder and at some point the intermediate alloy formed can be very brittle.For most practical purposes, tinning, cleaning and repeating a few times will clean a bit well enough that one need have no metallurgical concerns. Consider the average steel works, they don't keep separate crucibles, ladles, etc for the common processes - a tiny fraction of a percent of an alloying metal making its way from a batch of tool steel into a batch of mild steel isn't a concern. Same here.That just leaves RoHS, if that is a concern. If it is then, as the acceptable Pb levels are in the low PPM (from memory Pb < 11 PPM), you're probably better off keeping separate bits for Pb free processes.

author: Wolfram
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 06:19:16 pm
content: The upper limit for lead given in the ROHS directive is 1000 ppm, so wetting the tip with lead free solder and wiping it off a couple of times will be sufficient.

author: Iwanushka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 07:43:23 pm
content: We do sell chemet 63/37 in all sizes if you like them let me know and we can arrange sonething, sorry bo CU options for leaded stuff