Store leaded solder paste in food fridge - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: king.oslo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 01:44:17 pm
content: Hello there,I got some leaded solder paste. I want to store it in my food fridge. I planned on keeping the containers inside a plastic box with a rubber seal.I read some stuff on the internet: Somebody suggested that the gasses coming off the solder paste whilst stored in the fridge would leak out past the seals and harm the people eating the food.I find this hard to believe.What do you think?Thank you for your time.Kind regards,Marius

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 01:56:25 pm
content: You will be fine. People have gotten psychotic on this lead issue, to the point where everyone is paranoid and we are including radioactive metals in solder instead of lead.I'm worried about our future in 10 years if we find all of our devices tin whisker failing due to this lead paranoia. For some reason all the knowledge in the tube days of tin whiskers and how lead was really the only way to solve the problem has been lost and the EU thinks that legislation makes physics bend to their will. Sigh.

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:20:42 pm
content: I wouldn't do it.Call me whatever you want, but I don't mix food with other stuff.I keep my solder paste in a separate fridge at work, not at home.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:25:41 pm
content: You'll be just fine if you store that leaded solder paste in the fridge.johnmx: How does that help for a home lab?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:27:51 pm
content: On one hand, I doubt it will actually be a problem if you seal it well. On the other hand... it's lead. I'm not so sure I'd want it near my food. Same with the flux. I think I'd rather be careful.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 03:30:03 pm
content: Put it in a plastic tub and mark it as Tofu. It will never be opened then.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 04:07:00 pm
content: The lead isn't the issue. Even when heated to melting temperature during soldering it has a very low vapour pressure and is virtually nonexistent at room temperature, to say nothing of the even lower temperatures in a fridge. You can store a block of lead in the fridge (why you'd want to is another question) and nothing bad will happen if it doesn't touch the food. Solder paste contains other chemicals than lead (look at MSDS), which may have higher vapour pressures and could permeate through some types of plastic... but the last time I looked, there wasn't anything terribly toxic in the stuff.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 05:38:26 pm
content: Thank you SeanB, I smiled.

author: Nirios
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 06:48:35 pm
content: I'd be more concerned about forgetting to wash my hands after using the stuff.You could also seal it in a glass container with a screw top lid. Or use a small unused paint can.

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 06:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on November 01, 2012, 04:07:00 pmI assume the heat capacity of lead is pretty high. So a large mass of lead could help restore temperature after the door is opened? Can't think of any other reason, unless you want to make it heavier and harder to steal.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 07:02:54 pm
content: The lead isn't going anywhere. It will be fine.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 08:18:02 pm
content: There's more in solder paste than lead.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 10:17:59 pm
content: How hot does the inside of your fridge have to be before you need to worry about gas pressure from flux, which after all is designed to remain stable up to fairly high temperature before it does anything.I would just put it in a sealed container at the bottom of the fridge, in case any thing leaked out or fell off.

author: king.oslo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2012, 11:17:49 pm
content: Case closed. It is going inside a gasket sealed glass jar with a lot of yellow/black Warning, Caution and Danger-inside stickers. Thanks.M

author: Mediarocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 12:11:00 am
content: I'd never store anything not meant for human consumption in a storage for products intended for human consumption. Why? I don't have complete control over everyone digging through my fridge. Say I have a service worker or guest who decides to get cheeky and dig through my fridge... well I don't want to be responsible for them digesting my solder paste.That being given, It is easy for us to store itsomewhatsafely in the fridge, but you still risk cross contamination and possible accidental ingestion. For complete safety, segregate the non-edibles from the edibles. It's something that I was taught in lab class back in high school. I still follow it to this day. I accidentally digest enough lead because I forget to wash my hands after soldering.. I don't need to expose myself further.I would not advise it.My two cents.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 12:17:06 am
content: I store my solder paste in the fridge, but i keep it away from the food.The biggest risk is that someone will think the syringe is a fancy silver icing pen and decorate a cake with solder paste.Quote from: SeanB on November 01, 2012, 03:30:03 pmTofu isn't what many people think, it has almost no taste, you flavor it by marinade+heat.So it can taste like whatever you want it to.Also, deep fried tofu = awesome

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:46:50 am
content: Unless you do something stupid, nothing bad will happen. But it is still good practice to not store food and non-food in the same fridge. Really you shouldn't store or handle any toxic chemicals in the food preparation area at all, not specific to lead at all. It is a requirement in every professional setting I have ever heard of, but it is also good practice for home. If all you have is one tube of solder paste, go ahead. As soon as you start getting more than 2-3 non-food products, you should just get a mini-fridge, and locate it in the workshop not the kitchen. You can often pick them up for free on dormitory move-out days at your local uni. Its more convenient, too.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:51:00 am
content: QuotePlease no jokes SeanBI laughed out loud at work and everyone knew I was slacking off.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:58:27 am
content: I keep my insulin in the fridge and it's certainly enough to kill. Yes it's in a container (the kind used to store money) with a key. It makes me feel safer. If you have children with access make sure they know not to touch....mike

author: RCMR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 05:43:31 am
content: I keep my solder paste in the fridge -- it's a hell of a lot less toxic than some of my wife's cooking. She makes this Tom Yung soup that makes brake-cleaner smell edible by comparison.As you might suspect, I'm not into highly spiced foods -- it's my believe that the only reason anyone uses chilli, curry, garlic or any of those other additives is to cover their mistakesHell, unless you've gone the lead-free-hippy way, you're going to be absorbing more lead (which is still an infinitesimal amount) every time you put your soldering iron to solder. As for the other volatiles that may be in solder paste -- hell, I'm nearly 60 -- I really don't have that much to lose!

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 11:28:10 am
content: Fridge is fine, I keep my flux in the fridge. The lead thing went unnecessarily out of control in the media. I have handled lead solder for 20+ years and out of curiosity when doing a yearly checkup with my doc asked if I could be tested for lead as well, results were I had an amount too low to measure.

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 01:18:47 pm
content: This thread has got me thinking about the whole RoHS Pb-Free thing. What's even the point? There's lead in loads of things besides solder, the lead never even evaporates, and leaded solder works better than lead-free!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 02:37:50 pm
content: I store superglue and 2 pack epoxy in the fridge. If you open the box marked glue and eat it you are a definite Darwin candidate. The fridge at work will have up to 200l of product at times in it, awaiting further use.

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 04:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on November 01, 2012, 03:25:41 pmThe answer of your question is implicit in my text, but if you don’t get it I can rephrase: “Buy a separate fridge for non-food stuff. I didn’t buy one because I can keep it at work.”.UserMediarockersaid it all!Anyone can store this stuff in the fridge and not die because of it. But hey! 50% of us will suffer cancer in life and this number continues to grow. Just saw this number on the news last week.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2012, 05:51:14 pm
content: Quote from: johnmx on November 02, 2012, 04:12:19 pmGiven the last line in your previous post, "I keep my solder paste in a separate fridge at work, not at home.", I didn't interpret that has "Buy a second fridge for home use to prevent contamination" at all.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 09:29:56 am
content: Put inside some sealed plastic container or a sealed jar if you wantWrap it up in some CAUTION!!! WARNING!!! TOXIC SUBSTANCES or so if you wantMaybe use some of your high voltage stickers?

author: bilko
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 10:59:06 am
content: I would not have a problem storing the solder paste in the fridge in an air tight container. There are other real problems that people don't even consider. What about cans and bottles that have been stored in a warehouse, who washes them or sterilises them before storage ? Google Leptospirosis

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 11:13:03 am
content: It's solder paste, not nuclear waste. It's not going to up and kill you by being in your fridge.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 12:34:10 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 03, 2012, 11:13:03 amEven if I accidentally drop some catchup in it? I don't know, maybe some mutant reaction?

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 01:08:46 pm
content: Now i'm curious to see what solder paste tastes like.. damn you guys...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 03:38:44 pm
content: It tastes bitter and not very nice.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2012, 12:00:54 am
content: Quotehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retsinaperhaps?

author: JVR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2012, 01:07:18 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on November 03, 2012, 03:38:44 pmSaffers

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 09:56:59 pm
content: Those worried about lead solder paste in a fridge might be terrified to learn that the coils in the freezer compartment are sometimes lead solder and you have that sitting 24/7 with air and moisture blowing over your food. You also have millions of homes with copper pipes and lead solder .on the subject of taste:Romans would make a sweetener composed of wine boiled in a lead pot, the reaction makes lead acetate , a very cheap but deadly sweetener, which might explain all the insanity in the roman empire.

author: David Aurora
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2012, 10:41:12 pm
content: I keep my solder paste in my fridge, haven't died yet as best I can tell.That said, I'm a musician, so it's not like there's ever food in there anyway

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 10:30:15 am
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 12, 2012, 09:56:59 pmLead solder was banned for water long before electronics.My fridge doesn't blow any air over the food. Any nasty lead solder used is isolated from the food. The pipes in the freezer compartment are covered in paint and the pipes round the back don't touch the food.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 01:46:53 pm
content: QuoteDoesn't change the fact that there are millions of people living in those homes drinking the water and doing fine. Fears of lead are more paranoia than substance.QuoteYou have a fanless fridge ? must be a small one. Coils in the freezer sections of most refrigerators are not painted , they are aluminum soldered to copper and the fan pulls air across the coils to cool the air in the non-freezer section. Whether it is lead or an alloy solder depends on the manufacturer. External copper coils are brazed not soldered.Another career that involves lots of lead is stained glass work, the artists are not suffering from lead poisoning and they handle it all day long in large quantities.The main thing to remember about lead is don't eat it and don't convert it to a powder and inhale. There are a lot more dangerous things in electronics than lead. Flux fumes being 1000X worse.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 07:39:12 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 01:46:53 pmYes. I don't think i've ever seen a fridge with a fan in except in supermarkets.QuoteThe ice box then the fridge that has one has the pipes painted and convection is used to move the air around.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:33:35 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 13, 2012, 07:39:12 pmThat is surprising. In the USA just about every fridge sold has a fan to move the air around.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:34:21 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 09:33:35 pmAnd as with everything else, the USA is not the world.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:37:29 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2012, 09:34:21 pmI'm well aware of that , I just can't imagine a fanless fridge design as being energy efficient. Some air would move based on temperature differences but not nearly as much as with a fan, fanless would require the freezer section to be much colder to cool the refrigerator section completely.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:40:10 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 09:37:29 pmNot one of the fridgefreezers I've owned uses the freezer coils to cool the fridge. There is no air circulation between the two, they are sealed and separate.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:46:10 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2012, 09:40:10 pmI have never seen ones like that for sale except for small or dorm room sizes, except 30 years ago when they were not frost free. Are these full family sized units and who makes them ? Curious if it is a USA thing or are the fridges sold just smaller.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:48:25 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 09:46:10 pmWhat do you call full size? 'American style' double width units?Most of the rest of the world suffices with the likes of this:They're frost free unless you turn them up until they're not.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 09:58:41 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2012, 09:48:25 pmThat is full size or what I was talking about. I guess they are relying on convection to move the air from the colder section in the bottom to the top, but I can't see how that is ideal as the cold air will naturally want to remain in the bottom. Two sets of coils with independent coiling would seem cost prohibitive, but I guess it is doable.Something I never thought much about is refrigerators around the world, but it seems there is quite a bit of differences. Even the sizes being sold on that UK site are not anything like what is sold here. The UK ones seem to be much more narrow than the USA ones.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 10:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 09:58:41 pmNo, they're not. There is no air transfer between compartments. The only opening once the door is closed is the condensate drain.QuoteThey're pretty standardised at 600mm wide. Under-counter fridges are 550mm, to allow for trim panels and wiggling the cursed thing in.

author: ptricks
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 10:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2012, 10:02:04 pmComparing the differences it seems like the UK ones are taller and thinner than the USA models. The common fridge size here is 711mm wide or 762mm with the door open.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 10:12:13 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 10:10:40 pmYou need the width to fit your 24" pizzas in.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 11:09:40 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 13, 2012, 09:58:41 pmThat's solved by cooling from the top. There's often a small freezing compartment (known as an ice box) which is cooled by the evaporator pipes. If the fridge doesn't have an ice box, the evaporator pipe is mounted on a panel at the top of the fridge. This system saves power because no extra energy is required to power a fan to move the air.Quote from: Monkeh on November 13, 2012, 10:12:13 pmUnlike the USA, there aren't many people in the UK who are capable of eating a 24" pizza.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2012, 11:12:32 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 13, 2012, 11:09:40 pmI am, however, one of them.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2012, 12:07:18 am
content: Quote from: Hero999 on November 13, 2012, 11:09:40 pmIs that diameter or radius?And on topic, I store the solder paste in my food fridge. The paste is less hazardous than some of the legit food items in there...

author: Mediarocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2012, 07:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 12, 2012, 09:56:59 pmLead bonded to a pipe is different than the unused portion sitting in your fridge liable to come into contact with food or hands. The coil is not in contact with anyone/anything other than the air, and unless made airborne by abrasion or some other outside action, lead will not become airborne by itself. While I'm not really concerned about degassing or anything of the sort, and that even if there was leaded solder residue on the container that can possibly transfer to food, I am concerned about accidental ingestion.It is not good practice, or wise, to keep inedibles compounds in an edible food storage.While you or I may be capable of deciphering that that is not for consumption... A family member, friend, drunk roommate, etc etc etc, maybe incapable of deciphering that (especially in late night fridge runs).Your leaded solder is not going to beat up your veggies. But if you live with others, do not chance it. Children are the worst when it comes to do not touch. I should know, I was one of them.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2012, 07:44:16 pm
content: best sign for children is: 1 month without tv+internet+phone if you touch it!definetly better then dont touch it.as for cpper pipes with solder the temperature which the plumbers work on is pretty high so its almost brass after he done with the pipe due to the over 1000Celsius flame. and trust me once its fitted and coold down no matter how do you treat it even when reheated that wont even move. i doubt that amount in the water system would be problem for anyone

author: WorldPowerLabs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 09:26:29 pm
content: Quote from: ptricks on November 12, 2012, 09:56:59 pmThe water supply plumbing in my house is 100% copper -- no PVC or other plastics -- and at least some of it is soldered with lead-based solder. I know this because I obtained a strong reaction from one of those over-the-counter qualitative lead test pens. A long time ago, I got into the habit of just letting the water run for 20 seconds or so before I use it for drinking or cooking. I figure that not much lead is dissolved into the water while it's running -- just while it's sitting in the pipes unused.