Lennard Pottering the genius proggramer behind systemd is now at Microsoft - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 08:40:49 am
content: One of the icons of modern Open Source programmers that had modernized ancient crusty Unix subsystems and gave us systemd, pulseaudio and avahi is now at Microsoftwhere, together with other modern Open Source pioneers, he'll continue the excellent job of bringing ancient and obsolete Unix architectures to the modern world of ${CURRENT_YEAR}. Truly an icon of modern software engineering."Microsoft currently employs Python creator Guido van Rossum, GNOME creator Miguel de Icaza had been employed by Microsoft from 2016 when they acquired Xamarin to earlier this year when he left, Nat Friedman as part of Xamarin-Microsoft served as GitHub CEO following Microsoft's acquisition, Gentoo Linux founder Daniel Robbins was previously employed by Microsoft, Steve French as the Linux CIFS/SMB2/SMB3 maintainer and Samba team member works for Microsoft, and Microsoft employs/previously-employed a large number of upstream Linux developers like Matteo Croce, Matthew Wilcox, Shyam Prasad N, Michael Kelley, and many others beyond just the usual immediately recognizable names to Linux enthusiasts/developers. It was also just earlier this year that Christian Brauner as another longtime Linux kernel developer joined Microsoft. Christian Brauner is Berlin-based like Lennart and moved on to Microsoft after the past half-decade at Canonical working on the Linux kernel, LXC, systemd, and more."If you want to see why and how Linux become the most used desktop OS in the world, and Python the most used programming language, one only has to look at the above list.Cheers,DC1MC

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 09:31:56 am
content: If modernize means alter to make it look and behave and support MS business...So this folk did a hell of a job. NIX was twisted and biased to the point of being no longer considered so...Now why am i not surprised at all these folks working for MS...??And honestly.. i give them a shit and i am glad if they fuck off.. what took so longPaul

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 10:18:14 am
content: I don't usually believe in tinfoil hat bullshit, but ifsomeoneis a reptilian, that would be Bill Gates. And if there is any sort of New World Order conspiracy, Microsoft definitely is the main perpetrator.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 10:30:22 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on July 07, 2022, 10:18:14 amAnd all this should be a surprise?MS is putting their standard M.O. exactly as usual...They hired Borland key developers... just while imploding all Borland products..They hired DOS developer a little bit later because they could not bear to devel it further alone..they did that hundred times... as i could saw (and waste money on) itSo.. to implode all possible paths to NIX distros.. a forego obvious conclusion if one perceives that to convert theirmediocreOS from the 90s into somenew product..they need to do the very same thing...implode them all from inside..hire the key devel that made it looks and behave like our mediocre OS..and bingo.. we claim property of that thing..No surprise at all reallyPaul

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 10:35:01 am
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on July 07, 2022, 10:18:14 amConspiracy? Doesn't look like a conspiracy any more when the US president publicly talks about it.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 10:54:25 am
content: Don't miss the comments...https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Systemd-Creator-Microsoftnostalgia of these so shitty methods..Paul

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 05:06:22 pm
content: OK guys, stop complaining about Windows 11, you haven't seen what's coming in Windows 12 yet

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:09:14 pm
content: Complete world domination when windows 13 arrives...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:27:22 pm
content: Thank fuck I own a Mac.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on July 07, 2022, 10:18:14 amI’ve actually met and spoken to Gates. He’s a businessman and a cunt but a lizard he is not.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:39:31 pm
content: Quote from: magic on July 07, 2022, 05:06:22 pmJudging by the amount of money spent on owning GITHUB and now claiming the POTTERIX corporate kiosk *NIX diverted gizmo...I CAN BET WHAT IS COMING AROUND THE CORNER...THE MS-POTTERIXLinuxwith PLUTO ultra securitynew2020's MS -OSNo doubt about it .. soon the 3rd step of the EEE algo will render all other nix distros obsolete..MS-POTTERIX *NIX with pluto only producti ve already started my shiftPaul

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:44:22 pm
content: Microsoft will switch to Linux and keep selling their software on top of Linux. And it will cost the Windows users as much as before.At the same time will the Linux community get face-stomped by hordes of Windows users, all trying to learn everything there is to learn about Linux and in record-breaking time.Some long-time Linux supporters will switch to Microsoft in a heart beat like cold-hearted back-stabbers, while others diethe slow death of the White Knight in the most epic drama the Linux community has ever seen, before the Linuxcommunity itself disappears and we will all have turned into "the new Windows user".Once it's all done and over, and Microsoft has taken over Linux with its hordes of Windows users, will you either be thenew slave of the Microsoft empire or you will have found refuge under a tiny bridge, just next to the one where all theFreeBSD trolls live, and where you'll then be telling tales of Linux's past.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:44:57 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 07, 2022, 06:28:03 pmI know what a lizard is and sure Gates is not one.I still agree with Siwastaja, MS is definitely in the whole train of this new world order crap we are currently witnessing. Doesn't even need conspiracy theories anymore, it's right in front of us.It doesn't need lizards either. There are more than enough fucked-up human beings on Earth. And while Gates is in all seriousness not a lizard, I would definitely put him in the aforementioned category - not based on some random prejudice, but merely based on what he's been saying and doing.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:53:47 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on July 07, 2022, 06:44:22 pmUnfortunately it also makes a scary sense....As soon as they manage to undermine GPL/LGLP with their whorehouse of law makers...Locking the hardware (in progress a/PLUTO)and locking users on top of that POTTERIX thing..Even the BSDs are at risk with the GPL BSD underminedPaul

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 07:10:41 pm
content: And with that said, I'm not 100% sure what the OP's point is.

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 07:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 07, 2022, 07:10:41 pmJudging by the praise of such accomplishment (working for MS )It looks like the whole point is to get a job with them,...I rather invested a huge effort to dump and get rid of anything MS from my life.. my buz...I want them just to fuck off from my toolsPaul

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 07:19:38 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 07, 2022, 07:10:41 pmI think some sarcasm detectors around have some dud Nuvistors

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 07:20:55 pm
content: Quote from: DC1MC on July 07, 2022, 07:19:38 pmI hope that work for MS is just a sarcasm ...who knows... money is moneyPaul

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 10:18:16 pm
content: Quote

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 06:38:20 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 07, 2022, 07:10:41 pmI think that's anindicator.Let's give another example: the chief officer of Finnish Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority, basically the watchdog, pensioned, and the very next day was hired to a Russian nuclear project. It is not illegal per se, but it's anindicator. While French nuclear project was slowed down, and Russian one not, by authorities during his time in service, nothing illegal can't beproven. It is also not illegal to switch the position from the watchdog into the industry overnight.But it alsoblatantly obviousto anyone these contacts did not emerge overnight, but the job opportunity at the industry was decided while working as regulatory watchdog,very likelywith some illegal bribing going on: give us some advantage, and we'll give you a well-paying, easy job.Hence, it's an indicator, a red flag.Similarly, many have suspected Pottering's contribution to linux being a purposed sabotage. They have been treated like tinfoil hats, but now as you see the same obvious red flag, an indicator that therewaseconomical and/or politicalmotivationandpossibilityfor such sabotage after all, it suddenly seems completely within imagination, even with no tinfoil hat on. Still, we don't know. But it's a real possibility, and I have stopped making fun of people who think that way.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:10:09 am
content: Poettering's contributions were not sabotage. They were an example of someone who decided to solve a genuine problem. The Linux audio system was a shit show, so he decided to solve that problem. Fair enough. The Linux boot and service management was a shit show, so he decided to solve that problem. Fair enough. They are admirable goals and real, live problems.The issue is that he was the wrong sort of person you want to have solving those problems. He's an arrogant, narcissistic piece of shit of the highest order who can't see outside of his own ego bubble. This results in a personality cult rather than an objective software engineering approach.I deal with the commercial side of this sort of stuff and there's a hell of a lot of Poettering projects out there. Same personality problems. Really it breaks down into:1. Implementation before research.2. Lack of concrete objectives.3. Zero accountability.4. Misunderstanding the market.5. Singular opinion.6. Closed or zero feedback.You can usually work around all those issues by talking to people, working with them and running proposal based development (think RFCs).

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 10:46:30 am
content: Now that's hard to disagree with. Poettering is of course just someone who implemented the changes. For those who think his work is sabotage, I would ask the question, who is enabling it all? What are the roles of Red Hat and Microsoft? Why did the whole world nearly unanimously accept all his work? Was it really needed that much, and that quickly?But of course, in the end I probably choose to believe in the natural causality of things, instead of evil mastermind planning. It is totally true Poettering's work was responding to real actual problems, and people who claim that "everything was perfectly good before him" are just full of BS.But the move from Red Hat to Microsoft indeed gives quite some fuel to conspiracy theories.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 11:16:25 am
content: Well that's my point really.The issue is really the corporate control over Linux. Originally the Linux kernel was an independent project which leveraged the GNU toolchain which lacked its own kernel (lets not talk about Hurd). Obviously back in the day many companies worked out they could build a business around this. This was a rising front and Microsoft tackled it with some terribly tactless bullshit "open source is cancer". They lost this when large companies were built on open source suddenly like Google. This turned into a 20 year long war during which staff moved around all sorts of organisations and various handshakes took place and agreements made and cash changed hand. All so the open source software could be productised and shaped in corporate interest. Of course corporate interest changes when they lose so Microsoft is in there now just like the rest of them doing its thing.Eventually it declines into the usual corporate decay akin to the 90s Unix wars. Remember those? There were no winners. Who's the only company shipping a notable quantity of Unix systems? Apple. And no one even knows it or cares about it! Oh and AWS/Azure etc which are abstracting them away behind their own proprietary APIs and abstractions.And that's where we are. Poettering is a victim of this as well rather than an instigator. He had an idea which matched corporate desires so was hired and the corporation pushed him while he was still useful.As for Redhat and Microsoft; they are in bed with each other. Enough said.The only bastion of hope for independent platforms lies firmly with Apple (apart from the UI layer over the top of it) and the BSDs. Apple ship the only commercial Unix variant left on the market that anyone gives a crap about. BSDs (all three of the main ones) ship the only independently developed open source ecosystems. FreeBSD and OpenBSD at least are so afraid of the cancerous nature of the GNU attribution under corporate control that they are clean rooming everything. And Apple are leveraging that as well.Shit got very weird very quickly.Incidentally my personal kit is Apple or FreeBSD.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 03:46:26 pm
content: Whenever I talk about the inevitable results due to the views and past performance of people, I get called a conspiracy theorist.Yet, because of his preference for monolithic framework-like systems (and rejecting modularity and theUnix philosophy), I predicted years ago that Poettering would end up working for Microsoft eventually.Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 11:16:25 amMost of Linux kernel developers are well aware of this, so the good device/peripheral drivers and other useful portable subsystem parts developed with clean hands are usually dual-licensed for easier use in BSD. Even by those who do work for the corporations.It used to be that Linus and his abrasive language lashing when trying to pull a quick one kept the corporations in check with respect to the kernel (the devs learned their lesson with Nvidia and proprietary graphics drivers, and still pay the price –– you don't know what it is like to have to accommodate someone who neither pays you, nor gives a shit of what you do, before you have to do it yourself; no matter how many people there are around you cheering them on and demanding you keep doing it ––), but he's gotten old and mellow in this Cancellation Age, so who knows.I for one am glad that there are multiple OSes and distributions out there: harder for the money-grabbers and idiots to control them all.And to anyone who wants the community to coalesce around a single one, I say simply Fuck You.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 03:51:28 pm
content: Well said on all points

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 05:52:07 pm
content: Poettering is an idiot and an arrogant asshole, so it's probably a good place for him. I have never understood how he was able to have so much influence over the Linux community, it's very hard to escape from his systemd garbage.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 05:52:45 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on July 08, 2022, 05:52:07 pmBuy a Mac, use FreeBSD, go cloud native on AWS. Problem solved!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 06:09:21 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 07, 2022, 06:27:22 pmnah, you don't . there happens to be one in your home... you don't "own" it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 06:45:42 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on July 08, 2022, 06:09:21 pmOh I definitely own it. It doesn’t have a locked boot loader.The iOS devices I’m renting for a monthly fee however and I am completely happy with that relationship.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:17:08 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on July 07, 2022, 06:44:22 pmQuote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 06:45:42 pma proof that being a slave is ok...but we will never admit that we are one. so much speculations, with the so many Linux branches...

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:18:54 pm
content: Just remember when you go to a bar and get a drink you’re only renting it.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:20:38 pm
content: no, you are pouring it down the drain, well.. your soul is leased..

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:46:37 pm
content: I only rent the water part.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 07:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 08, 2022, 03:46:26 pmYes.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 08:06:24 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 07:18:54 pmPlease don't shitpost.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 07, 2022, 06:28:03 pmI've actually met and spoken to Steve Ballmer. He wasnota businessman andisa lizard. All other descriptions applied to Gates apply to him too, with the addition of the adjectivesloudandmouthy.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:23:57 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on July 08, 2022, 09:22:19 pmYou forgotsweatyandmental.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:26:15 pm
content: Satya Nadella looks more tamed, but don't get tricked.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:30:25 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 09:23:57 pmI took that as read.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:36:26 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 08, 2022, 09:26:15 pmThis one really got the idiots on Hacker News going mental. Everyone bought the New Microsoft bullshit and were ambling around in circles flossing each other's genitals. Any dissident opinion, even as light as "um, you might want to wait a bit then form an opinion" was downvoted to death by MS staff voting rings. This amplified the whole thing.Of course a few years down the line everyone is knee deep in rotting poop and telemetry and the developer community has pretty much bailed on the platform as a whole or have gone into full denial mode.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 09:42:11 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 05:52:45 pmYou mean problem exchanged for a different problem. Windows, Mac, Linux, I use them all daily and they all piss me off in their own unique ways.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 05:53:58 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 09:36:26 pmanother commonly bragged around speculations about its effect. i'm imagining someone who concerned about it is someone who do illegal or criminal stuffs but anyway... imho you dont have to worry about it, its either a good thing or it will just shot on the M$ foot if they do it in the wrong way. there are reasons why we would like to keep the older Windows as much as we can... Linux otoh is not "upgraded", it is "evolved" (with exception to a larger scale u-turning notion such as this systemd) so imho in Linux you got the illusion you have the latest version in your possession. i would like to see WinXP or Win7 to be "evolved" ymmv.Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 09:36:26 pmi seldomly reveal this, not in a forum culture like this but i will say it anyway for your sake... i never "bought" M$ or any other related SWs past 2 or 3 digit price, even on those that can cost you arm and leg. so if the term is "slave", being their slave is a "good symbiotic relationship". otherwise i'll never be able to offer you some of my little utilities in my website for free. if you hate M$ then you must love me (for being a M$ parasite)but then i'm a hobbiest lone ranger who dont profit anything from them (except on small portion of it) so i think my case can be considered, i will buy legit licenses when i become an enterprise, when? who knows?. on the contrary, those who got sucked by Mac's gimmick are the one who are real "slaves" and those normal users like me who use Linux are those that got stucked "under the tiny bridge" but please dont get offended its just my personal opinion based on my used case, and its a bit of exaggeration. its like me prefer blue just because i live by the sea and you love silver or grey just because you live in a city. cheers.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2022, 06:48:38 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 09:36:26 pmIt doesn't even matter who the figurehead is if the whole corporation is already set on a certain course. Firstly, the corporation chose that guy for some reason, so there is that, and secondly even if he personally opposed all the customer-hostile bullshit, guess what he is going to do when his analysts and managers say that this is the only way they know of staying profitable. Shareholder profit is the ultimate god.It's Change We Can Believe In all over again; they could have learned something but they never willQuote from: bd139 on July 08, 2022, 09:36:26 pmI'm not even sure of that. Reading the Orange R*ddit, and not just the vote counts but also the arguments, left me with an impression that they really are insane enough to buy into any bullshit and hype as long as it's sufficiently optimistic, "positive" and world-changing. The drones who downvoted you did so because they themselves wanted to believe.