Paid EEVblog reviews? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:48:55 am
content: I know better than to ask about this stuff here (and should just do what I want to do), because I know pretty much what the response will be. But I'm a gluten for punishment so will ask anyway, because I can't help but being curious to know what people think.I am being approached more and more by both manufacturers direct and equipment suppliers to consider doing "paid" product reviews.i.e. they want to effectively pay for my time and effort to review their product on the blog.I have resisted this so far, as the potential for this to look bad is quite high. But I am always considering the possibility, the reasons being:1) I review products anyway because it's one of the things I like to do, so why not get paid for it too? In fact I'm already doing an awful lot of advertising for free essentially (albeit building my bog and rep in the process).2) I already get (usually) free product from either the manufacturer direct or a supplier with a vested interest in flogging the gear. Everyone (including viewers) seems happy with this, and technically I could make some money if I sold the gear afterwards. So you could say I am effectively already getting paid for these reviews in terms of free gear.3) I'm always moving in the direction of the blog potentially being a full time job I could actually do for a living one day, so money has to eventually come from somewhere.I understand there is a huge potential for people to see "paid reviews" as a sellout and losing my impartiality. But all parties so far actually want me to keep my impartiality and continue to slag off their product where appropriate in my usual fashion, no changes at all. They all see this as a very important aspect, that helps both them and my blog.i.e. it's not a "cash for comment" thing, it's more like "cash for the effort in reviewing our product in a timely manner on your blog and giving us exposure (both good and bad)". Instead of my current "yeah send me your stuff and I might get around to reviewing it eventually" kind of attitude!No, I don't want to turn the blog into a review-a-thon. I don't see the level of reviews vs other content changing at all.I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.Brickbats and bouquets welcome.Thanks.Dave.

author: joelby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 05:08:01 am
content: Perhaps as long as you declare which reviews are paid and promise to point out at least one design flaw that would lead to the certain death of the operator and everyone they love, I don't have any problems with it.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 05:33:34 am
content: This is a sneaky process. Journalists doing reviews, like reviewing cars or holiday trips, often claim they are unaffected by the fact that the manufacturers or trip organizers partly pay, because they areprofessional journalistsand trained not to be affected by the payment. Well, in reality, they are often affected.There is a white zone (e.g. paying for everything out of your own pocket). There is a black zone (e.g. being a paid mouthpiece), and there are shades of gray in between. And somewhere in the shades of gray there isthe lineone shouldn't cross. No one really knows where exactly it is. But too many manage to cross it, because gradually they moved to more darker shades of gray. Every move was just a tiny move, the gray remained almost the same, just a tiny bit darker. Until some day they or someone else figured they long crossed the line.There are two ways to deal with it. Trying to keep as large as possible a distance from the line on the white / light gray side, trying to move towards shiny white as possible. Or trying to come as close to the line but not crossing it. The later is typical for our society (stretching the rules as fare as possible ...). But see above, many "suddenly" find themselves on the wrong side of the line when it is to late.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:05:10 am
content: The most important issue here is transparency. As long as you disclose it (start the review with 'this reviews was paid for by the John Fluke for president comittee'), viewers can make their own decision. I think it will lower the credibility of the reviews in the eyes of many viewers, and people will use it as argument against controversial thumbs up (like the Agilent DMM stuff). Especially people that haven't seen past reviews when you did it for free. A significant part of your reviews is about your impression, it's hard to give an objective idea of things like build quality or user interface in a twenty minute video without it being extremely boring (like a scientific paper). It would be quite easy to hide bad points without the viewer knowing (until they buy the product themselves).I think the companies want the impression of impartiality, not the impartiality so much. They want someone with credibility to say 'the Fluke 87-V is the best', they don't really care if it's true. It's all marketing to them.If it was me doing the reviews, I would be worried about:- Being nicer about the product because I want to keep sure they keep sending me products (a significant problem in the magazine business, which is why most of their reviews are crap and don't treat anything important, they're often glorified press releases).- Being too harsh on the product to prove they haven't bought my opinion.Maybe I'd be lucky and the two would cancel out.- Being in a weaker position when pointing out flaws. Currently you're in a pretty strong position because you have a significant audience and there's not much they can do (except stopping sending you products, which means less exposure). If you're being paid by them, they can threaten to cut that source of income. Especially if it's a major manufacturer which sends you lots of stuff for review (eg. Fluke or Agilent).- If some manufacturers pay, and others don't, will the products of the paying manufacturers be reviewed first? In my opinion, it would be a perfectly valid stance for a company to refuse to pay for reviews. I wouldn't want the amount they're willing to pay determine if you review the products, it should be based on if you think the product is interesting for the audience and the manufacturer/distributor being willing to take the risk that you say the product sucks.I don't think I'd want to open this can of worms. But you're right that letting you keep the products already is a form of payment (especially the useful stuff like Gossen meters, not so much the $50 meters). And it may allow you to spend more time on the reviews or might motivate you more.Personally, I would prefer you to be funded by viewers (ads/donations), but I also realize we don't live in fairy tale world and it's hard to be profitable that way. If you feel that you can do it without compromising impartiality or losing viewers and as long as you're transparent, I wouldn't mind too much. Until I start disagreeing with you, then you'd become a sell-out.

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:05:40 am
content: Dave,You're right, this is a sticky one. On one hand your followers are now your customer with you and your opinions as product whereas charging for reviews could possibly make the manufacturers into your customer and your followers into your product. I can absolutely see the sense in your getting paid to do this and I see the potential threat to your credibility, so I'll throw out some thoughts for you.- Define exactly what it is they're paying you to do. I think this might be a clue as to how to maintain your credibility with viewers. If you had a legally binding contract with manufacturers stating your position and the limitations to their rights, and could make this public (open source, if you will...) you'll have done tons to maintain your credibility.- As much as I liked the individual reviews, it may make more sense to limit yourself to shootout type reviews where a set price that they pay you can be treated as an entry fee that levels the playing field. It would be a positive thing if you could reserve the right to include non-paying manufacturers as well, allowing you to fulfill requests from forum members for reviews of meters from companies that might not have the budget to play against the likes of Fluke, Agilent, Extech etc. ( obviously this depends on what you charge for taking part in a shootout).- Your position is unique. You're bringing a lot of years of experience to the game and there are two things I see you NOT getting paid for which you should: You offer educated criticism of both the electronic and functional design of products and by exposure, free advertising. The reality is that some companies may take your free advice and implement it, others may not. You can't have any control over that, but I definitely think you should get paid for it.Ultimately time will tell whether you sell out or not in reviews and judging by the level of participant knowledge on the forums here, it wouldn't take long to catch on and the price to you would likely be high.My gut tells me to trust you and wish you luck in the further development of your website and blog!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:22:40 am
content: BTW, just to clarify, I'm not talking about only offering paid reviews and actively seeking out and charging people to review their products, and in future telling everyone else who doesn't pay to bugger off.The "free" product reviews will always continue with gear I get by the usual sources (buying myself, loaner, free stuff sent to me etc). And my usual rules will apply in that it has to be interesting to me personally and my audience.It's just that I've had a few manufactures and suppliers who normally supply me with free stuff, now asking if I would be interested in talking about payment for reviews (usually to "expedite" the process).Also, sponsorship of blog segments has also been discussed. i.e. "This blog is bought to you by OneHungLow" type intro's.Dave.

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:27:34 am
content: Dave,i think the big question here is, are you willing to risk your reputation by doing "Paid reviews"? You have a solid reputation for providing straight to the point, call it as it is, reviews. If you start doing "paid Reviews" some people will start to question the integrity of the reviews.I dont really care either way, you will still be Dave and Dave rants with the best of em. But some wont see that.Just my 2 cents worth.Regards

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:30:12 am
content: Quote from: alm on September 23, 2010, 06:05:10 amI'd greatly prefer that too.Time will tell if that alone will work, but I can say that's certainly within the realms of possibility, and I'm working on things toward that end too.QuoteA hero one minute, a villain the next! Such is the life of a video blogger!Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:39:49 am
content: Quote from: Darkman1969 on September 23, 2010, 06:27:34 amThe answer is basically no, which is what I've been telling everyone who has asked for quite some time now.But they keep on asking, and every time I always think "is there a way to do this and make some money without losing my audience?"So I'm not about to immediately go out and do this, I'm just throwing it out there for discussion to see what people think. Odds are it's not going to happen, because the risk is quite high, and I'm doing pretty well without taking that risk already.BTW, on the flip side there are also many companies out there (including some big ones) that are starting to try and take advantage of me and the blogs popularity by getting me to do free reviews for them. Some products are worthy, and others aren't, and I'm actually being offered more stuff than I have time to actually review.Dave.

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:43:53 am
content: Maybe there is a way to do Paid reviews. What if you were to make it "Forum Policy" to only accept Paid Reviews for products that you personally feel are worthy of review and state this at the beginning of the review.Just an idea.

author: Nermash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:53:55 am
content: I don't see anything bad in getting paid doing stuff you like doing. For majority of us that it the dream come true.Also, IMHO you are not the low end/mediocre employee that will take crap from above just to hold on to the job...So yes, I do belive that your paid reviews would be unbiased in the same maner as free ones. Even the free ones aren't free, 500 $ device can not exactly be considered freebie (all of you not agreeing to this, please contact me, Fluke/Agilent/Gossen are all welcomed), as you already pointed.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 07:08:48 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 23, 2010, 06:39:49 amNot sure how asking for payment is going to help. If it's so you can spend more time on it (either because you can work less or because you're more motivated), that's fair. If it's so they'll send you less stuff, I don't think it would be a good idea. A company with a huge marketing budget like Fluke might pay you to review every single new meter series, including something like a new version of the 179 or 77 which only adds a LED tester (these are not terribly interesting for electronics work, and I've personally seen enough DMM reviews in this class). It would be harder to refuse paying 'customers'. Another company may not be willing to pay, but have a for more interesting/different product (for example, the first real oscilloscope for under $300).

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 08:15:35 am
content: Hi Dave,Do not quit your daytime job.You will be able to defend the fact that you know what is needed in the real world of electronic design.Imagine the blog when you have a problem call on an oil rig somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico and you throw your Fluke 87 V and your phone in a bag and step into the helicopter and travel 2 days to the problem only to find your meter has died ( and the spare one too).When I was working in the aerospace industrie I read somewhere that Gossen was the only company of DMM to have an approval from Airbus. Now I know why....However it is fair that you recieve some compensation for the service you are providing to the world. You have invested your time, money and marriage into this operation.You could consider a style like the Britisch car show 'Top Gear' (no phun intended). In short theire message is; all cars are bad but one is worse than the other.In the end the main factor for buying a product is the prize you pay and what you get for the money.Your doing a great job in telling your feelings about a meter. If the knob feels bad or nice thats stuff one deals with every time you use the equipment. A nice or crappy user interface can make doing you job a joy or a pain.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 08:25:51 am
content: One thing to remember is that like print magazines by taking advertising on a 'space rental' basis ( dunno the industry term), you effectively are already being paid for what you do. if you piss off an advertiser, they withdraw the advertising. Magazine advertisers have a lot of influence on editors.I agree with most of the comments that it's not problem as long as it's transparent.To this end I sugest you publish the wording of any agreements with reviews on the website.This should include your terms re. right of reply and editorial independence, how they can use content in advertising etc.I'd also suggest it's kept on a strictly 1-off 'per product' basis, not an ongoing contract, to avoid any suggestion of compromised impartiality to maintain the contract.I think you also want to keep as even as possible a balance between different manufacturers, so you don't get seen as favouring any one, or start depending on one financially. Ditto other advertising - keep as wide as possible a portfolio of clients so you're not too worried about pissing off any particular one.Therewillbe times when a company gets a sense of humour failure, change of CEO etc. and you should work on the assumption of a certain percentage of drop-out.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 08:30:39 am
content: Quote from: qno on September 23, 2010, 08:15:35 amChanging the 'Day job' to more of a 'working for yourself' type thing would be a credible alternative - I'm sure you don't just want to do blog stuff - if you are producing your own products, as commercial or OSHW then that keeps you in touch, possibly more so than working for a 'big' company with a narrow product field.And there is also probably plenty of scope for freelance consultancy work. Don't know the scene in Aus, but here in the UK There is no shortage of jobs for people that know what they are doing - I've been freelancing for 20 years and never had to advertise.

author: Rhythmtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 09:20:34 am
content: It may be time for a game change? We all love the equipment reviews, perhaps finding a few people in the community you've built up to help review the gear in your style would provide the ability to perform more of the reviews. The equipment reviews could also be a subsection of the blog to allow for less sharing of the main release channel. Might free you up to improve the blog as a whole and growth might provide enough justification for the "funds." I am sure there are enough of us that would be happy to work together on a procedure for a Dave Jones equipment review and abuse report form or something. You could have equipment review data lined up and ready to go all of the time.If they want to pay you, it is because they want to buy credibility. I think you enjoy bashing crap designs too much to ever have a problem losing credibility. I would start seeing you as sell out if there were 15 second commercials for Agilent, Fluke, Gossen.., Atmel, and Microchip etc... interspersed in the show since that would tend to lend itself to invalidating the reviews. Being paid to give your opinion, thumbs up or thumbs down, would not be much of a hang up for me.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:12:49 am
content: To be honest, I'm not planning to buy any test equipment any time soon so I've not read any reviews recently (yours or anyone else's).I'll just throw my 2p in.If you start being paid for reviews then I don't see how you can remain impartial in the eyes of most of your readers. Hell I even think advertising can detract from the impartiality: seeing a good review on a site but noticing they have other Fluke products advertised would make me question it.

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:26:30 am
content: If anyone could do paid reviews and remain impartial, it's you, but there's still a nagging feeling that you'll feel at least the tiniest bit obligated to be more polite about it because of the money. It's human nature.I don't care for the reviews much anyway though, there has been so much multimeter talk here that I have ignored all of it for months until your GSM interference blog.

author: DJPhil
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:44:24 am
content: My advice would be to do what makes you happy. You've got a passion for electronics, and I think that's what's built this community. I'd be wary of anything that had the power to make running this community feel like a joyless slog, and financial strain could do that. I think so long as you can be true to your passion it'll come across however you communicate, paid reviews or not. I think you'll know by hunch alone if a manufacturer is asking too much. I know it's complicated when you add it all up, and I must say I don't envy you the decision!Personally I'm here to share in the joy of electronics. Nobody in my small world shares my science and electronics geek streak, so it's hard to share successes and impossible to trade advice. There's been no better place for me on the internet so far than here. Product reviews are an excellent bonus, but for me it wouldn't matter if you were paid handsomely or stopped doing them altogether. I'm mainly here for everything else.Don't forget the forum's effect on reviews! We all get together and pool our experience with various tools anyway. This has the potential to open up a lot of grey area, or I suppose add more complications.I know the 'follow your heart' stuff is kinda sappy, but if I were in your shoes I'd be jealous of my joy and loath to put it at risk. If in doubt I advise slow, careful consideration. After all, there's not much to be gained by rushing, right?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 11:55:51 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 23, 2010, 04:48:55 ami hope you not that hard up that you need money to build a bog, which country to you live in again...on a serious note I don't see a huge issue with it. you put in a lot of effort (well actually I see much less frequent blogs lately) and it's on your own time and money (and being an active part of a not for profit organisation I know how fast you start spending your money for "our" benefit). If the people that want to pay you for doing a review of their product are happy for you to keep your current standard and format then i have no problem at all, why not get paid for dong what you already do. of course reviews should not take over the design blogs as lots of us really like them and they are invaluable due to their practicality - a couple saved me from my errors and explained the whole thing better than a super theoretical book explanation.I'd say go for it, just keep your dignity which so far you've done a great job at without being bulldozed aside by corporate interests

author: quantumfall
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 12:24:58 pm
content: I personally would not have a problem with you getting some cash to do a review. If your not sure do a couple as a test, the money can buy some nice new toys for youAs a viewer of the blog I can make my own mind up on the gear. I would not like you to stop saying : "The designer should be shot", "What were they thinking of" "I smell marketing bullshit".If you do your "Dave reviews" will you get enough to keep you going.Or adds would be fine as well, if we get great content most people understand an add break is necessary.

author: Polossatik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 03:33:38 pm
content: Quote from: Rhythmtech on September 23, 2010, 09:20:34 amAnd that is something that can go down the drain fast and then is never recovered.Personally I'm not really expecting Dave to be influenced , but it's a about perception.I would NOT go for payed reviews , never ever.One thing that you could consider is for example doing something around a new chip/kit or so and let them then pay you do develop a nice thing around it.Let's say TI wants to launch that MSP430 LaunchPad and they pay you to make, let's say, a deep sea sonar with it, publish the thing and make a video about it how cool as sonar is.. fine , you could then categorize under a different "tag" on the blog, not in the normal series and just say TI payed for this.Or even if you would for example make a "using oscilloscope guide for dummies" and some scope manufacturer pays your time on this and in return you use their scope as example, why not.But making payed recommendations/comments about thequalityof a product... Personally , no.. don't go there.Being payed to implement or explain how to use a product is fine imho as long it's clear this is actually sponsored.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:06:59 pm
content: In my opinion the question is not about integrity. Granted, I only know you from the videos, AmpHour, and the forums here, but my sense is that you're not a person who will be 'bought off'. You seem to take far too much joy from exclaiming "It's a piece o' shit! Don't buy it!"I really believe that most companies that build shit, know it. And companies that build quality gear, also know it. I would think that you'll mostly be approached by the latter.A few things occur to me that you might consider..First, if, for example, Fluke wants to pay you to review a new meter, you might tell them to send you one, you'll look it over for a week and then let them know if you'll review it for them. That way if the thing turns out to be a buffalo turd in a box you can tell them "this is a piece of crap and I'm going to say that even if you pay me.And second, you could start paid reviews with something like "Fluke just sent me a meter, a nice little check, and asked me to review it. So let's giv'er a go!"And finally, and I presume that this is obvious to you, virtually all real reviews point out both the best things about a produce, and the worst things. All products have highs and lows, and pointing out both shows that you're not just a mouthpiece for the manufacturer.In short, by all means get paid for doing what you do. If nothing else, around the homefront it will turn that "annoying hobby that keeps you in the garage all hours" into how you're going to pay to remodel the kitchen!

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:15:48 pm
content: One more thought ...Your reviews are fun to watch and I enjoy them, but I don't think you actually get your credibility from them. In *MY* opinion, the postings that give you credibility are the one like "Design a DC/DC Switchmode Converter", "Thermal heatsink Tutorial", and "Lets Design a Product".Those are where you show that you're the "real deal", and know what the hell you're talking about.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:24:40 pm
content: I think it's a balance of both, Dave can point out flaws in design that none of us would think of and yes his how to's and practical looks at stuff are very useful and show that he knows what he's talking about but then he's employed in the frigging industry so must be up to some good

author: Strube09
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:27:00 pm
content: I think getting paid is great because you love to do it... I think that if people watch enough of your blogs they realize that you wouldn't recommend a product if it sucked... paid or unpaid....I would make it very clear to the paying party that they are paying you for an honest review that is published on your website. This will ensure that if they think they have a good product then they can risk paying you for a review...One other suggestion you should have them agree to some terms and conditions that state that they are paying you for you honest opinion of their product and that you retain the rights to publish it.This should also be posted on your site for all of us to see.Yes you will have some people will respect your review less regardless of what you do.Strube

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:28:17 pm
content: I will say just give it a try, and if it does not work, then stop doing it.The world may never know until you try it.Unless you need to sign a contract with the manufacturers for certain numbers of reviews ? Which I will consider as a bad deal to do.Also try to keep the show balanced with reviews, design time and others, as you have been doing it as of today. If your videos would be to review equipment only, I would stop watching you a long time ago.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 04:52:59 pm
content: ..and of course there must be a condition stating that you can take it apart & show the insides....

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 06:09:22 pm
content: offer them ad space. accept hardware handouts. i want to see episodes based on your creativity/cynicism... not based on who's strokin' the check this week! my 2¢ fwiw.-sj

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:03:25 pm
content: Quote from: polossatik on September 23, 2010, 03:33:38 pmIn fact a major manufacturer has already offered this. A "tutorial" so to speak about how great a particular feature of a product is, which on it's own wouldn't be too bad a tutorial "how it works" video, but I'd be using their equipment only (other brands have the same feature) and they would "sponsor" the episode.Dave.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:27:59 pm
content: Just wondering if you'd had any offers to review competitor's products that they think you'd slag off... Maybe someone would pay you to NOT review something....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 10:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 23, 2010, 10:27:59 pmExtortion, I like it!Dave.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 11:10:17 pm
content: QuoteMaybe scope for an auction model: bad review - maker bids to keep it under wraps, competitor bids to publish it.....Can you sell publication rights on ebay..?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 23, 2010, 11:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 23, 2010, 11:10:17 pmI like were this is going!Dave.

author: Mambo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 02:05:07 am
content: I think you would lose creditability. You cannot receive payment and remain unbiased "in other peoples eyes". I sell T & M gear and people that don't know me won't believe I'm unbiased. If I told them I'm trying to be unbiased they would believe me even less.Welcome to my world....lolSo Dave from my viewpoint which is different from most here, I can tell you that if review a product regardless of if I sell the brand or not...I will wonder your motives.Sorry...but it's a fact of life.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 03:00:42 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 23, 2010, 08:30:39 amYes, that would be the ultimate aim.I've said it before, if was earning enough money with the blog and other projects as my day time job, I would not be at my daytime job.My wife thinks differently however, she is under the illusion that if the blog starts to earn the same as my day job then it's still just a hobby and I simply earn twice as much. She doesn't see the blog as a real "job"!QuoteI don't want to go freelance and do contract work, because that's more painful and sucks up more time than a 9-5 job. Been there done that, I don't need the stress.The goal is to do as little work as possible for a living. Working hard and being committed to do things is highly overrated!Dave.

author: rossmoffett
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 03:52:08 am
content: I like the idea of product placement.. mainly because I'd like to see more technical or how-to blogs. Just look at the success of product placement in the television and movie industries, you hardly notice most of it and it's making them cash.Quote from: EEVblog on September 24, 2010, 03:00:42 amYou're not truly seeing this from her perspective, that's probably doublespeak. Think of all of the shoes you could afford with double your current income, and it wouldn't be too much work for you because it's your hobby anyway.

author: JohnS_AZ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 04:14:46 am
content: QuoteOh man, I fought that battle. The way I approached it was ...If "work" is "work", and "hobby" is "hobby",and "work" income supports the household,then "hobby" income supports the "hobby".Of course, it didn't work for shit.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 04:39:32 am
content: Being self employed does have benefits in terms of freedom but, unless you are really lucky, the work is irregular and very prone to the fluctuations in the economy. You can also end up doing quite a lot of work effectively for nothing. I have discovered that it can also leave you really "out of the loop" after a while. There is a tendency not to work with the same people for a sustained duration, so you don't build up the same relationships.I think Dave's Mrs has her eyes on more handbags and shoes

author: PetrosA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 05:48:55 am
content: One more thought, Dave. You could always use the offers as leverage at your day job for more humane hours and a nice raise

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 06:56:33 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 24, 2010, 03:00:42 amThat makes sense to me.I don't spend a lot of money so having a highly paid job would be more stress for not much reward, I'd rather get more per hour so I don't have to work as many hours.

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 07:06:52 am
content: what about a separate eevblog "series" for sponsored reviews where:1. dave gets paid2. product gets a good reaming on youtube3. the demo unit is then put up for raffle or drawing for one lucky eevblog member to enjoythe "official blog" can remain honest and impartial, the sponsors get their eevblog youtube exposure, plus the additional exposure from the contest / drawing that follows, AND best of all, somebody gets a prize! =)-sj

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 24, 2010, 07:40:14 am
content: Quote from: Mambo on September 24, 2010, 02:05:07 amI don't think it's unreasonable. Even if you try to be unbiased, it's just human nature to consider the hands that feed you. You may also be visited more often by sales representatives than equipment users, trying to convince you (based on marketing arguments, not real world experience) that their stuff is the best. Your opinion may also be influenced because your local sales representative is very nice or a dick. But on the other hand you do see more equipment and have other information like sales volume.Quote from: EEVblog on September 23, 2010, 10:03:25 pmThat would be less of an issue to me, since you aren't actually commenting on the product, it would represent less of a conflict of interest. National did (do?) this in theirAnalog by designshow. Each episode would be sponsored by someone like EDN, plus there would usually be a segment with an equipment/software vendor explaining about their products. Sometimes this product would be used during the lab segment. But the main topic (eg. current sources) was different enough from what the vendor does that I never considered this an issue, except that they obviously use only National parts. There probably would be less opportunities like this, since there are only so many equipment-related tutorials of interest to a significant part of your viewers. Something like a tutorial on how to debug PCIe buses with $100k equipment wouldn't be a very good match for this show.Any sponsoring will to some degree decrease credibility, especially for new viewers that see it for the first time and notice 'This episode was brought to you by Uni-T'. How much, no idea, I'm not in marketing.

author: Rhythmtech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2010, 02:35:32 pm
content: Quote from: Mambo on September 24, 2010, 02:05:07 amI don't know... When a rep is honest with me and tells me a product they rep is crap, it's like a credibility home run. Pushing crap product is just dumb anyways. Bias works into anyone's opinion regardless of being paid or not. For example, the unabashed biased of almost everyone on this forum towards the Fluke 87.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2010, 03:13:56 pm
content: I like to believe , that Dave so far, he had prove , that he does not do simple presentations,he acts as an tester, or even better , he does an live surgery at the called product.If the manufacturer have faith on the product , he is the one who will contact Dave.If he gets payed for the review as bonus , its even better.That's my simple view , the language barrier does not help me to expand in such subjects.My bottom line are, that in any case, only worthy products would come for review !!And so It does not bother me the " payed part " .

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 03:05:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 23, 2010, 04:48:55 amThe conspiracy theorist will have already assumed under the table payments are being made for your reviews. Truth and reality never get in the way of a good rumour.Quote from: EEVblogThere are lots of options where some sponsorship could benefit your blog and the forums.For my two bobs worth simple transparency and disclosure will counter the accusations of bias. The main thing is to protect you impartiality, its your blog so should be your choice on what to review and what you say about it. Sure a pissy review can end a revenue stream, on the other hand a poor or mediocre review can be a real opportunity for a vendor to show how they address problems.May be worth having a contract prepared for those wishing for reviews which states your position of impartiality. a pre publication review process etc. Making the plain English version of such a contract visible to readers could go a long way to preserving the impression of impartiality.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 07:39:06 am
content: Quote from: Uncle Vernon on November 14, 2010, 03:05:24 amI love a good conspiracy!I'm really a Fluke stooge, and that whole 87-V GSM video was staged for publicity :->QuoteGawd I hate contracts. I'm a handshake guy.Dave.

author: SirDan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 07:48:08 am
content: Hi All,As a small time manufacturer, I had sent Dave an email asking how much itcostsfor a product review before I read this post. I automatically assumed that Dave charged money for his time. I was willing to take a chance that he may call my product total garbage if he felt that way about it. I expect that he would keep his integrity and do an honest review of the product. The reason for wanting Dave to review my product would be to take advantage of the exposure that would result from a review from Dave, especially if he thought it was a half decent product. Dave points out that a video review from him can get 5000 views in a week:http://www.eevblog.com/about/under the heading MANUFACTURERS. For a small company, this could be a real help, or a nail in the coffin, but that's the chance you take.Regards,Dan

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 07:48:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2010, 07:39:06 amThey are sometimes a necessary evil, they take the attention of those with little else to do and let the rest of us get on with it.Anyway was just a thought.Quote from: EEVblogdespite the bacterial risk?

author: Frenchie
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 08:00:39 am
content: I think it all comes down to being up front about the fact you're being paid for a review. If you keep giving your usual mix of credit where it's due and critiscism of bad design it'll be fine.Personally, I'd do it on a case by case basis and not tie myself up with an agreement along the lines of 'I'll review your next 5-10 products'. That way you can test the waters with a few products and if you feel it's impacting on your reputation, refuse to do any more.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 11:16:07 am
content: If you get paid by a manufacturer for a review, impartiality comes into question.But, if part of the contract is you now own the gear you are reviewing, you can send that gear out to another impartial person for a review ... he or she gets to keep the gear as payment.That second review then get added to Dave's review as a counterpoint.Likewise, have a comment section open to particularly other owners of the unit to add their pros and cons to help neutralize bias.

author: nyo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:02:55 pm
content: Dave, you have a reputation for being anal (if I may be so clear) when you are looking at other peoples design and you always point out "garbage". That's what I like, you are not afraid to say something is garbage and sucks and you also point out the good features of products.So, doesn't matter to me if you get paid or not, but perhaps you can keep doing give-aways with the reviewed products.Felipe

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:05:43 pm
content: This is a risky business. Here is my advice:Think of creative and intelligent ways that ensure all parties concerned benefit. It is possible as long as you don't become a puppet.1) Accept the offer to review products and get paid.2) Notify the viewers when you are reviewing a product *for* a manufacturer. Don't underestimate the "no bullsh!t" appeal of the show.3) Make it a condition that you are allowed to point out weaknesses as well as strengths of their products and actively think about how they could correct any flaws and even offer them your professional expertise if they need it (for a price, of course). Imagine how all would benefit if you found yourself talking on the show about how you improved a function on some product.A manufacturer who receives a critical review for their product can always come on top a winner by either returning a *good* justification or accepting the criticism and advice and informing you of their intentions to revise or correct a problem in a newer version of their product.The above ensures you are approached by manufacturers that are reasonable and care about their product and their customers; it dissuades manufacturers that care about profits at the expense of unremarkable products and less than satisfied customers; it also ensures that you don't have to turn into a pathological bullsh!tter over time.If done well, you make money, the viewers are empowered and not conned and the product (or its revision to be) becomes a hit. A virtuous cycle... Honesty might put you one step back today, but it will bring you two steps forward tomorrow (and vice-versa). Don't lose your credibility or you will lose the respect of your viewers and soon the interest of the manufacturers as well.If instead you "go towards the black", as someone put it, you might still have many viewers but they will be casual ones and you will have given up a great opportunity. I know I won't waste my time..o:0|O|0:o.

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:15:54 pm
content: Quote from: SirDan on November 14, 2010, 07:48:08 amIt is not a chance if you care about your product and your customers enough to accept criticism and improve your product for all to see. On the other hand, if your product is unremarkable and you just want to take a chance at exploiting viewers who have a lot of respect for Dave's opinions then it is right that you should see it as a gamble..o:0|O|0:o.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:18:38 pm
content: hmm. sometime ago i was thinking i'm going to do a niche ee business (starting) and send my product FOC for review by Dave. But my second thought, since i'm planning for cheaper product and i'm not a good EE person, Dave might slashed the product so badly that i cannot get back my initial investment, and have to invest again for later version of R&D and product again and again until i reach the EE (product and knowledge) perfection. well, just a thought... a daydream?

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:30:04 pm
content: Quote from: shafri on November 14, 2010, 04:18:38 pmActually, as long as you are committed enough to making a good product then I reckon you cannot fail. The first version might not be excellent, but the next one will be better and have all the bad publicity from previous revision reversed, which effectively amounts to a lot more good publicity once the improved version is released. No guts, no glory!.o:0|O|0:o.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 04:53:57 pm
content: Sorry Dave but no matter how good the deal is now one day a company will think they have spent enough money on you that you "owe them". Maybe to kill a negative review, maybe to delay it until after the next shareholders meeting, maybe to "take a second look" etc.I see it all the time in the computer hardware/software review area and that is with only ad money being the leash ("hold that review or we pull our new ad campaign"). And even those corporate lap dogs would baulk at directly taking money from a company to do a review.IMO accepting equipment for review is fine as we aren't talking about movie tickets here, but directly taking money will come back to bite you in the ass (even if it doesn't compromise your integrity). If you need to "monetise" EEVBlog there are other ways to do it.

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 05:38:51 pm
content: Quote from: the_raptor on November 14, 2010, 04:53:57 pmThis situation doesn't have to be a dilemma as long as you are able to take a long term view of things.Everyone has a chance to thrive on their own integrity. If Dave does sell out (i.e., starts kissing butt for cash), then he will have unwittingly passed on the chance to someone else.It seems to me that Dave has pretty much decided that he would like to do this as a way of making an income, now it just depends on how he decides to do it..o:0|O|0:o.

author: the_raptor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 05:46:42 pm
content: My comment was more out of concern for Dave (waking up one day and realising some PR suit has him by the short and curlies) then for myself (possibly losing a decent reviewer).

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 06:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: the_raptor on November 14, 2010, 05:46:42 pmFair enough, but that was also one of my own considerations. My view is that as long as he shows who is the boss on the EEVblog, he will remain the boss. As I see it, Dave is in a position of strength precisely because of the no BS format. People want to view the show because of this and that is also why people want to market their products on the show...One way to make it less likely that you get bought up by a few big companies is to diversify; in other words, review more by many different manufacturers, instead of a few product ranges by a few big companies..o:0|O|0:o.

author: TopherTheME
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 06:40:49 pm
content: I personally wouldn't care if you made a few extra bucks here and there doing reveiws. Given your past blogs, I think everyone will agree that you're unbias and not afraid to tell a manufacturer that their engineers are a bunch of stupid dickheads. If a manufacturer doesn't like the truth, then they don't have to pay you to review their products.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 08:45:54 pm
content: Quote from: the_raptor on November 14, 2010, 04:53:57 pmI've already started to see this, with a few suppliers asking to see the review before it goes online. Usually under the disguise of "we don't want you to make any mistakes and spread misinformation. It's for your reputation as well as ours" etc...I hate that.Yeah, I occasionally get things wrong, but I like the think of that as part of my genuine "first impression" of using the product. And that's the risk I take with the off-the-cuff usually unresearched style blog.QuoteYes, can't say I know anyone else who does it.QuoteYes, I'm now going quite well on the "other" part now. So I'll be doing everything I can to use other revenue streams if the blog goes full time.Dave.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 08:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: SirDan on November 14, 2010, 07:48:08 amI think Dan's would be a typical case that I expect to see a lot more of down the track.A small time manufacturer looking to get a leg-up by getting exposure on the blog.Although most generally want me to do it for free. In fact many don't even ask, they simply send an email "what address can I send my product to for review".I'm happy to do that of course, but generally only if I like the product and find it interesting enough (to me and the viewers) to want to spend my time reviewing it.In this case I don't think it is and have turned Dan down this time around. Although I like the product, I also think the product is too expensive, so would not interest most of my audience.It would be interesting to know what others think about this case.If Dan is happy to link to his product in question here that is?Dave.

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 09:37:07 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2010, 08:53:56 pmPerhaps the manufacturer could post a thread discussing some interesting aspect of his product. If the thread is useful because it talks about some clever way of achieving something, then people will read it and some interest might follow for the product itself.The show is only as relevant as the material you discuss....o:0|O|0:o.

author: David
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 09:58:36 pm
content: This may be going too far but how about a forum section for users to post their products for which they would like reviewed. The most popular product each week (month...) then gets reviewed? Now this could of course turn into a major spam of shameless advertising...

author: SirDan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2010, 11:37:29 pm
content: QuoteHello Dave and everyone,I would be happy to link my product here:http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms200/index.phpThe product is called RMS-200. It is a web based remote monitoring and control device. Our website left nav bar has links to individual aspects of the board. The RMS-200 was designed based on the Atmel AT91SAM9g20 development platform. Open source development environment is available upon request to customers. The product may seem expensive, but keep in mind the development board cost alone is $572.00 from digikeyhttp://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=2621773&k=91sam9g20and it does not have isolated voltmeters, relays, battery backed up real time clock, temperature sensor, pluggable conectors, extra watchdog circuitry, etc, etc.Would you the forum readers be interested in seeing a review of this product?Best Regards,Dan Pattison

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 11:05:25 am
content: Maybe you can send the product to someone else, your mates in Oz, or another person on eevblog who you trust you can make a video blog for you to post on eevblog as a guest video?That way you can get more video reviews out and bypass what you find uninteresting.If the manufacturer agrees, of course.The cost of the review? Keep the product sent for review?Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2010, 08:53:56 pm

author: apex
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 07:55:08 pm
content: I think there is a third option.If you get paid for doing rewiews on projects that do not fit so well in the blog context like the mentioned 50k$ power supplyor any "special" product, I don't think it's so bad.You would get money for reviewing stuff.If a company comes along saying things like "don't say bad things about our product",then simply mention it on the blog.It would be the biggest shame for that companyever!Keep your day job so you keep knowing about what is worth to be used in "real life"and to provide financial assurance.Simply offer your services as product reviewer.Just my 2c.Apex

author: Polossatik
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2010, 03:18:38 am
content: Quote from: SirDan on November 14, 2010, 11:37:29 pmPersonally, no, this might have some good usage in a certain niche market but I fail to see this product would interest the majority of the audience of a blog like the eevblog.The only possible thing I would be interested in is a teardown on why design decisions where made and why feature X is there and why not for example feature Y or chip Z is used . But for something that complex, I doubt a video blog is the good medium;

author: SkyFx
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 18, 2010, 10:44:47 pm
content: Hi,it´s an interesting question. Generally i´d say it´s your blog, you can do what you want with it. Maybe here are some new points of view:Marketing people usually say bad publicity is better than no publicity at all and even a bad review might be worth the exposure, as long as it is their product being reviewed. So your opinion may not be biased at all, but the time you spend with reviewing a product of one manufacturer in the blog is missing for the others and therefore the overall representation may be biased. How big is the difference to what you´d do instead? You need to select devices to test anyway and this raises attention on those you tested, even if they were worse than the rest.Manufacturers know pretty well who their intended customers are, what they can afford and what can be produced for that money. Why should manufacturers/distributors want to get reviews of rubbish or cheap products then? I guess because people probably tend to buy the higher priced equipment then, which means more margin or customers select the petty evil out of a selection.What i´ve seen so far the red thread of your reviews is: you get what you pay for, which is normal and always present. You emphasize the strengths and features of products as well as you say your opinion about the weaknesses. People watching your show are probably not lemmings, they use the content on this site as input for their own decision, which is more than they would have without the show. Based on manufacturer information alone a decision wouldn´t be unbiased which is why a lot of people search for this kind of information via the net. And i think you were almost the first to compare multimeters against each other in this way. :-) There are a lot of product review sites, but having one users statement that he is satisfied with his single multimeter and anothers statement that he is satisfied with a different one is not gathering any new knowledge about those for a buyer.So, the bottom line is, even when reviews are paid, good equipment will set a benchmark, dangerous equipment will be tagged as dangerous, viewers of the show have some more input to make a decision. Imho: if it enables you to improve your show, take the chance as long as your opinions stay independent and transparent. You can select products to test anyway and could be paid for.On the other hand, i´d really like to see less reviews of specific products, but a more general approach, like basic information on what to look out for when buying equipment for a given task, like safety issues. So a viewer of the show is enabled to make a good decision on his own. That maybe accompanied by showing several products as examples.wbr,SkyFx

author: FreeThinker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2010, 12:08:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2010, 08:45:54 pmAs for manufacturers asking for a preview, I would reply that they could have 'A right to reply'.This would allow them to correct any factual errors but not question any statements of opinion.They could offer alternate opinions but not launch into a sales pitch.I feel this is a reasonable response for both sides.The longer I think about it the less inclined I would be to accept payment....but then it's not my revenue stream.