F1G2 vs F1G3 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 02:58:12 pm
content: Since the third generation FlirOne is now ready for preorders, I would like to ask what would be a better deal?Second generation, perhaps used one, although the prices seem to not fall bellow $250, or the new third generation model at $199.From reading around I understand that the sensor size of g2 is matched in g3 pro at the higher price pointWill the resolution be software limited in the g3 standard? Would it be open to custom software enhancements?How is the longevity of the g2 models?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 03:25:45 pm
content: FLIR ONE Gen 1 (Original for iOS) uses a LEPTON 2 80 x 60 pixel coreFLIR ONE Gen 2 uses a LEPTON 3 160 x 120 pixel coreFLIR One Gen 3 standard model uses a LEPTON 2 80 x 60 coreFLIR ONE Gen 3 Pro model uses a LEPTON 3 160 x 120 pixel coreThe FLIR ONE Gen 2 has generally been reliable, but I have recently been somewhat inundated with requests to repair bulk lots of F1G2 cameras of both the Android and iOS versions. The actual LEPTON 3 cores are very reliable however. The F1G3 my be more reliable and an improved design.I consider it unfortunate that FLIR decided to produce a Gen 3 version of teh camera that was priced higher than its equivalent Gen 2 specification. I personally would not buy a FLIR ONE Gen 3 standard model as 80 x 60 resolution is too low for my needs.The Gen 3 cameras use different LEPTON core in the two different resolution models. No hacking to a higher resolution is possible as the microbolometers are different resolutions, not software hobbling, unlike the E4. FLIR just insert whichever lepton Core they need into each cameras production line. it s a self contained camera core.It may be worth considering the i3 Thermal Expert. $499 + $65 shipping from Korea. It massively out performs a FLIR ONE of any generation and is higher resolution than the best LEPTON 3 core. The Thermal Expert camera is anther good option.Fraser

author: cascade
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 06:01:00 pm
content: What is typically failing on the g2 models?Is it OK to say that the g2 is pretty revivable device without special equipment. I am thinking for example swapping battery vs replacing a crucial burned-out component on the board or sensor. Is the quality of the components and manufacturing process ensuring a long live span?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2017, 06:18:47 pm
content: F1G2 failures range from simple battery failure and firmware lock-up through to firmware corruption.Failed solder joints under the surface mount IC's and burned power management chips have been reported.The F1G2 is not a simple repair in all cases. Even battery replacement means transplanting the truly tiny connector to the new batteries leads.I own six operational F1G2 cameras at the moment. All are working fine without issues. My two original purchases have never given me any problems. The other four were bought cheaply and repaired by me. To date, they remain reliable. I do have another one that will not respond to my attempts to revive it, but I only bought it for the LEPTON 3 core so I have not put a lot of effort into it.As a guide, I have been buying faulty F1G2 cameras for around £60 and one cost me only £30. They have a very low residual value when not operating as only the brave attempt repairs on themI do not offer a repair service on F1G2 cameras as they are just not economic to work on. My time costs more than the market value of the camera. Effectively these are disposable thermal cameras if they fail.Fraser

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 01:02:20 pm
content: FLIR One Gen3 Pro ordered. I have a phone that is actually able to use it now. Bought it because it can actually export radiometric JPEGs for analysis, maybe this means FLIR are actually utilizing all the pixels on the sensor instead of windowing like last gen?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2017, 02:47:09 pm
content: It will be interesting to see whether the Gen 2 models will be able to use the same APP as the new Gen 3's. If so, and the new APP is better, Gen 2 owners will also benefit.Fraser

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 12:54:33 am
content: Quote

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 02:03:17 am
content: Sensor is low res and by using Flir Tools, you can see raw sensor data. Definitely a lot of bleed due to the small pixel size.Going to the Flir One App itself, it's obvious it is applying several filters to squeeze more detail from the soft source image. This results in decently sharp images at the cost of overshoot/ringing on hard edges. Quality degrades severely when moving, so a lot of frames are being combined. Possibly superposition and compositing as well to increase resolution.There is a massive amount of lag. About 1-2 seconds when previewing, and 2-3 seconds when recording video. Extremely irritating. My phone is a 3 month old Google Pixel that is definitely no slouch. I'd blame the (probably) SoC running linux inside the dongle adding unnecessary overhead.It is *required* to create a user account to use the program. Even worse, to use FLIR Tools, you must create a *second* user account, both of which require E-mail validation. App is buggy and randomly quits working. I had to reboot phone to be able to save images.Low temp/narrow span is very good. Much more usable than the NEC Avio. That's really the only pro though. Wide FOV, fixed focus means this is useless for PCBs.Is it a good deal for $400? Maybe. The non-Pro version with the 80x60 sensor is half the price, and about as practical if you just want to find obvious problems. If you want nice images you are barking up the wrong tree.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 11:42:58 am
content: @Marshalh,Many thanks for you thoughts on the F1G3After reading your post I was left thinking "Oh dear". I had hoped FLIR would refine the F1G2 platform. Saying that, they both rely on the standard LEPTON core so that sets the quality of the data collected.From what you have said, it appears that the F1G3 could potentially be inferior to the F1G2 in daily use ? I would not be surprised if FLIR has added more 'on dongle' image processing, but such should not be permitted to increase image lag. It sounds like FLIR got that bit wrong.With regard to your Google Pixel...... That is more than powerful enough for a thermal camera phone dongle. Poor coding could be responsible for the F1G3 less than impressive performance. I see the whole LEPTON based product range as somewhat mediocre and not typical of traditional FLIR hardware. That is the price of targeting the low end consumer market I suppose.So in précis, the F1G3 PRO appears to be little more than a F1G2 in a new housing plus some revised firmware. So why is the PRO version more expensive than the F1G2 ? Marketing, Marketing, Marketing !After reading your comments I would not pay $400 for the F1G3Are you keeping yours ?Fraser

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2017, 05:18:29 pm
content: I think the dongle could be salvaged by third-party apps.The author of "Thermal Camera+" does not have these new units supported yet, but I'd guess if he did it would be highly superior to the FLIR app. Possibly the SDK doesn't support these new devices yet?Physically, the dongle is of a higher build quality than last gen. Adjustable Type-C connector is implemented well and solves the direction problem plaguing last generation. It seems to be partly aluminum which dissipates a good amount of heat during runtime. I would expect that the battery problems from G2 would also be resolved.Unfortunately to disassemble the unit I think requires damaging the serial labeling - the screws seem to be under it.I think I'll probably throw it on eBay for a good price - hard to beat a U5857AWhile this dongle continues to deliver on convenience and size it's no match in every other regard.Flir Tools capture - less sharpening and filtering. But blurry as hell. Doesn't seem to be raw sensor data:

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2017, 07:17:58 pm
content: Information about SDK support of the F1G3 series:Quote