Soldering iron (Europe) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 10:52:01 am
content: I tried searching about good value soldering iron, but ... I didn't get a clear view what soldering iron to get.First what I use:I've bought $3-4 cheap soldering irons (chinese) with temperature control. the termo couple is probably far from the tip, but they do the job. I had few troubles - shorted wires (good I have secondary low current fuses), one didn't heat fast enough ... but I found one that is really nice - 60W, soft cable, 30-40 seconds to heat, works 4 years already.Why do I need another? Well I can't find the same iron and it's really hard to find one that has all the features. I had few that are not powerful enough + bad heat conductance which couldn't keep up with a bit thick wires. I wish I would have bought 4-5 of the one I liked when they were available. But now if this one dies I can't find another one.I search for a sildering iron with soft cable. A lot of manufacturers don't realize how important is the cable to be soft. And it's not that hard to have soft cable that can stand <100W. The next thing is availability. I'm from Bulgaria, Europe. It would be nice to have europian seller or one with reasonable shipping price. The price ... I feel like all the good soldering irons cost too much for what they have. $600 for soldering iron sounds a bit too much compared to good multimeter which is far more complex device. So it must be <$100. Also I noticed that cheaper soldering stations are bad in many ways. So I would consider buying a soldering iron with all the electronics built in instead of soldering station. You may argue, but for the same money you'll probably get better quality soldering iron, than soldering station.So fewer words:1. Soft cable2. Fast heating3. Good contact between the heater and the tip to recover fast from thermal stress.4. exchangeable tips5. $100 or lessthanks in advance

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 11:21:02 am
content: Hm, maybe the PTC70 could do the job.It's a temperature regulated iron with a temperature selector,which works without a station.You can use all the tips from the 832 and 842 series.So you can choose between nearly 30 different tip types.Select bulgaria at the top of the page:http://www.reichelt.de/Soldering-Irons-ERSA/ERSA-710CD/3//index.html?ACTION=3&GROUPID=549&ARTICLE=110015&SEARCH=ptc70&SHOW=1&OFFSET=500&

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 12:40:23 pm
content: JBC SL2020 shouldn't be bad too.http://www.jbctools.com/sl2020-temperature-controlled-product-686-category-8-menu-1.htmlI had positive experience with their fixed temp ST series (excellent heater-tip heat transfer) and this one looks mechanically pretty same.

author: Senf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 02:14:44 pm
content: Zdrasti,if by any chance you can reconsider your budget, then take a look at the JBC stations. They start at around 200,- for the analog one.I've been through Weller and Ersas at twice the price and in my opinion, nothing comes even close to the JBC.When you solder connectors or pcbs with large copper pours, they push out so much power in an instant, it's a breeze to work with.Also, I almost never used the right tip for any solder job, since changing them used to be a hazzle. With the JBC it's a piece of cake. It's actually fun.I can not recommend it highly enough, it's an amazing piece of lab gear (and everyone who's been here and tried it actually bought one the very next day).I got mine from Weidinger, not sure though if they ship to BG.

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 04:44:56 pm
content: Please when suggesting, mention the exact model and tell me if you've used that particular model or just have general impression about the brand. The SL2020 sounds like it has not enough power to maintain the temperature if you hit ground plane or something. I know for sure the quality of product makes a big difference, because I have 2 chinese soldering irons which reach maximum 60W and one of them handles massive ground planes pretty well, the other drops down below the melting point. maybe JBC know what they are doing and they make a good contact between the heater and the tip and they've put the thermocouple at the right place, but one thing I don't want is to pay $100 for a soldering iron and to find out that it can't do what my $5 chinese one does.@Senf Zdravei. Can you share what models you have used. What power?@abyrvalg Why would you use fixed temp. I had lots of troubles when the temperature gets a bit higher, the tin reacts with the oxigen and creates a coating that prevents it from flowing like it should. Same for copper - it oxidates too fast.@Frost have you used this one.Does anyone have SL2020? Impressions?Of course it is possible that good brand 40W soldering iron is actually better than 60W cheap one if the sensing is right on the tip and if the heat transfer is good. I have the money to buy JBC, but it's not the only thing I have to buy and I'm not really doing full workday soldering to justify that much money for a soldering iron. But I've watched Dave soldering with his JBC and I was stunned. I will probably one day buy it (or a similar model), but for now simple but good soldering iron would be nice.

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:11:49 pm
content: Can someone explain when these different tips are used and if I had to choose 2 of them which I should choose (0300xxx and 0400xxx):http://www.jbctools.com/catalegfitxa.php?idpro=465I solder smd, TH and wires up to 1mm2. I've successfully soldered SSOP28, TQFP44, TQFP64 with the chinese soldering iron with round tip. Will these 2 do the job:http://www.jbctools.com/0300509-t-20d-long-life-soldering-tip-product-633-category-8-menu-1.html- for generic useandhttp://www.jbctools.com/0400804-t-05d-long-life-soldering-tip-product-631-category-8-menu-1.html- for fine SMD solderingor maybe T-20D will do better job than T-40D for generic use :http://www.jbctools.com/0400200-b-16d-long-life-soldering-tip-product-629-category-8-menu-1.html... maybe I should get a round tip too, so may be 3 tips?I still haven't made my mind for the JBC. Waiting for feedback. So the soldering tip question is also for the ERSA soldering iron.The main problem with current soldering tip is that the part where tin can flow is too long - 5mm. So right at the tip there is no solder. Most of it is in the middle. I need tips which will keep the solder at the very tip (if that's grammatically correct in english). For examplethis onehas too long working area. I feel like 2-3 mm would be enough.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 05:28:36 pm
content: Quote from: npelov on March 03, 2014, 04:44:56 pmFWIW, JBC builds excellent soldering stations, and would expect their simpler irons to be great performers too.Another alternative to look at would be anAntex TCS230. Never used one, but they have a good reputation from what I understand, and it's in your price range. Between the two though, I'd probably opt for the JBC if it where me.Didn't see any YouTube videos on both of these models, but you might still get an idea of their quality from those that cover the stations they build.In the case of ground planes, you can struggle with them even with a top quality station at times. In such instances, you'll need to get some heat to the bottom side of the board (preheating). One way to do this is buy a preheater, but there are alternative methods, such as using an electric skillet should you need this (DMM with a thermocouple will help you get the temp set correctly). There's a few sites/blogs out there that cover this if you're willing to do a search.Also, would you be willing to consider a used station, so long as it has everything you need to make it work and it fits your budget?

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 06:10:00 pm
content: JBC has one flow - they are not detailed enough with specifications. For example they don't mention the heater full power at the specifications on the website. The SL2020 soldering iron's heater is NOT 40W as statedhere. That's the power required to maintain 300 deg. C (probably on open air at room temperature). The heater is 200W which is enough to handle huge power loss. Combined with a good sensor placement and good heat transfer this will probably more than enough.So I'll wait a bit to see if someone that used it will share opinion and for advices about the tips I should get with it.The JBC is a little bit above my price, but that's always the case - you think about a price ($50) which is 5 times more than the cheap one you have, then you double it so you can get more quality ($100) and at the end they tell you you can't get anything that's worth the money below the double of that price - $200. The same happened when I buyed a multimeter, an oscilloscope and even my JBL speakers ... But what can you do, the quality comes with a price.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 06:19:56 pm
content: npelov, proper tip/heater design changes a lot. I had a feeling that 11W JBC 14S (now they call it 14ST) was feeding more heat than 35W 936 clone (unless 936 was overdriven to such temperatures when tip gets grey in minutes) - because of much better thermal contact between tip and heater. 14S was my primary iron for several years, doing SMD mostly, but had no significant problems with heavier things like ocassional mains wires - just touch it with wider part of the tip and it goes. Now I have CD-2BB (200EUR used on ebay) with 3.4x0.3mm "knife" as a primary tip and 0.1mm cone for ocassional very fine works like BGA 0.5 "dead bug" and I'm 100% happy.I haven't used an SL2020 personally, but same mechanical design as ST series and 40W power should produce more than enough heat at the tip.For tips I would recomment chisel types - they can be used for both fine and heavier works (just turn it 90 deg and you are in a different width class).

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 08:58:41 pm
content: @nanofrogI've had a lot of troubles with second hand stuff. Sometimes people just try to sell their stuff because they bought better ones, but sometimes they have troubles with it and try to get rid of it and they hide the problems they have (if that makes any sense). If it comes to a lot of money being spent I would prefer new one even if I have to pay more than I initially intended. If I buy second hand stuff I do it with the thought that I already lost the money.I have hot air gun with 50 to 400 deg. C control in 10 deg. C steps. It's not meant for precise work, but it does the job for preheating or for scoring parts (when you want all the components removed). But I said - 60W (max) soldering iron does 90% of the jobs well, even some ground places. I struggled only with a PC board and a videocard, but I don't usually solder PCBs like that.Maybe later if or when I do more soldering work I could get a good soldering station with all the funky functions like few second 0 to 300 deg, stand by mode at 200 deg and other stuff.@abyrvalgYes, but as I said the heater is actually200Wor at least it's more than 40W (if they specify the 200W at cold state). I think they should state both maintain power and heater max power on the page. Also it would be nice to say what these 200W mean. I feel like it's not the power of the heater, but the peak power that the heater consumes when cold. It's strange. Usually the (major) different between the good chinese stuff and well known non-chinese brand is in the more detailed specification. You should know exactly what you are buying.

author: Senf
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 10:29:30 pm
content: Quote from: npelov on March 03, 2014, 04:44:56 pmSure, I have a CD-2B. But to my understanding, the BT-2B is much the same, just that it sports an analog temperature dial instead of the funky LCD display.Unfortunately, they list it under discontinued products on the JBC site, however Weidinger still has them in the online store for 198,-The heater is in the tip itself, it's why they're so fast (and why the tips are so long, they look like ballpen refills). It goes to standby, you pick it from the stand and before you reach the PCB that you want to solder on, it's at 350°, no problem. You pull the tip (without powering or cooling down, no pliers or tweezers, just pull it by using that metal catch thing that's built into the station) and insert a new one (just push the handle down on it) and the same thing happens: Before you reach the spot you want to solder on, it's up at 350°, it's just awesome to work with.I have no idea what the power ratings are (and I am too lazy to look it up), but it sure is more than enough. The LCD has a little gauge that shows the power that's currently pumped into the tip. Most of the time it's at < 10%. When I hit a real big copper pour, it might go up to 40% or something. I've never seen it going to 100% but I've never seen it cool down when working on stuff with big thermal mass either. Also, the handle itself is not as clunky as the others, it's more like holding a sharpy. It's really just like all the little problems that bugged me with other stations are simply gone.They have a special hoof tip that comes in two sizes, it keeps a little reservoir of solder right where you need it. The smaller one is great for soldering fine pitch SMDs. Just use some flux and drag along.Other than that you'd probably want a smaller and a larger chisel type tip, which came as the factory default packing in my box.Edit: On the other hand, I've been using an Ersa Analog 60 for years and it's not that I didn't get anything done with it. It's just once you got to know something that much better, how can you recommend the worse one?

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2014, 11:10:20 pm
content: If you want cheap, I've heard good things about the ZD-916.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 02:06:18 am
content: Quote from: npelov on March 03, 2014, 08:58:41 pmYMMV, but I was just trying to think of an alternative method of getting decent gear within your price range, which seems quite hard to do vs. the US for example due to you're location.Specifically, I was thinking in terms of used name brand equipment (i.e. JBC, Weller, Hakko, Ersa, Pace, Metcal/OKi, ...). Still you do have to be careful as with anything used, but if you are, it's possible to get decent gear at substantial savings over new.FWIW, most of what I'm using is used, and have done well so far by being both careful and patient (hand tools to T&M equipment).

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 07:59:20 am
content: Well, if you buy 10 gears second hand there is no way all the 10 to be bad, so even if you have 1-2 bad and maybe 1-2 repairable then you already won. So maybe it's not a bad idea. The only thing is the time spent for searching and sometimes you don't have that big of a choice. Also here in Bulgaria things are often sold in a price close to the price of a new one. Well, I'll spend some time of searching because I have few more things in the shopping list.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 08:09:07 am
content: I would consider Jovy iSolder 40, which seems to be very decent judging from videos on the internet (i'm still looking for a person who will let my try it). On the other hand I'm a fan of Xytronic. They present very decent value for money, despite being a Taiwanese company.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 08:31:39 am
content: Recently I have been using this one:http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/60w-professional-lcd-solder-station-with-esd-protection-a55kjBut if you go on ebay you can also see it here much cheaper:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-Professional-LCD-Digital-Soldering-Station-Iron-Kit-ESD-Anti-Static-Safe-/121090033388?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c318746ecReplacement irons on ebay very cheap as it uses a standard 5 pin plug, I think these look very similar and are half the price of the others:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-TOOL-for-replacement-HAKKO-907-936W-ESD-Station-/331012363320?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4d11dfd438http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-Soldering-Iron-for-KADA-Rework-Station-850-852D-936-858D-Free-P-P-/121191731982?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1c3797130eThey sell tons of soldering iron stations on ebay, spoilt for choice really.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 11:50:08 am
content: I would prefer a JBC/ERSA fixed iron over anything that has 936 in the name. 936 regulator's primary function is tip/heater mechanical design flaws compensation. There is a quite big air gap between tip and heater (unscrew the tip holder and point the tip down - it will slide off under it's own weight, almost no tension there) that fools temperature regulation loop completely under heavy load, so you end up adjusting the setpoint for any load change - that's excatly what should work automatically, but it doesn't. Another problem is overheating handle - I had several layers of heatshrink tube added to insulate my fingers from hot plastic.

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 12:37:01 pm
content: If station format is acceptable I would suggest ERSA Icon Pico. Very good value for money in Europe. A friend got it and he is very happy with it. It heats up in 9 secs, has small light handle, soft cable and takes little space on the bench. Costs about 140 Euro and chisel spare tips are about 9 Euro. Very good quality tips.

author: Frost
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 12:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: Salas on March 04, 2014, 12:37:01 pmIt's a great station for the money and like thestations from weller too, very easy to getfor privat persons here in europe.But with over 200$ far out of the price range fromthe threadstarter -> 5. $100 or less

author: Salas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 01:03:01 pm
content: Quote from: Frost on March 04, 2014, 12:50:27 pmAlright, but if he is to make a jump in the stations category in the end, maybe interesting. Its the same 80W station and tool to the more expensive Icon Nano, the differences are: A. Pico is not built to ESD safety spec B. Pico's tray is lighter/cheaper. By the way, ESD safety is not working by the station alone, it nulls if you are not grounded yourself and the bench mat too through a conductive backing.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2014, 03:22:50 pm
content: I've been very happy with my ERSA icon nano but it is twice the OP's budget, at least when I bought it a year ago. Around £180 in the UK from the importers and rather more from Farnell etc.

author: npelov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 09:22:57 am
content: and what do you guys think about getting JBC soldering iron for JBC soldering station and try to build my own temperature control. It probably won't be any close to JBC's performance, but it'll be 10 times less expensive and it could do a decent job - it has (I guess) soft cable, it's lightweight and has powerful heater. I might not push it to the limits and make it heat a bit slower. It'll be a good exercise. Has anyone tried to do that?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 07:51:29 pm
content: Quote from: npelov on March 07, 2014, 09:22:57 amIt's not only possible, another member (vzoole) has done it. Might be worth sending him a PM.Here's a pic of his design on a breadboard.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2014, 10:11:19 pm
content: This controller project looks completehttp://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5264