Control-Software for HP 8510C VNA - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 01:08:24 pm
content: Hi Everybody,I got an 8510C some time ago.What annoyed me, is the missing "Parameter over Time" measurement.So, for example the ability to watch the Reflection at 10 GHz on Zero-Span and then plot this over time.Interesting if you have rather slow settling effects like thermal or whatever.So I started a few days ago to make a Software for that. I am going to do this in Python 3.So far, I got a driver for the 8510C working with all functions I need ATM (Fstart, Fstop, Span, Markers and so on), this will grow over time.My software has now the basic functionality to create a plot of a given Value on a given Frequency at a given sample-rate (e.g. every 1 s) for a given time.I intend to let this grow into a more advanced controller... Planned features so far:- I want the computer to output a beep which has a tune corresponding how close you are to some target-value. This is for tunig parts, so you just need to listen to the beep while turning some screws.- I want to install a IFFT-Method, as I do not have the TD-Option in my unit and modern days computers a way more capable of the calculations.- Maybe a 3D-style sweeping, so whole S-parameter-plots over time.- It came to my mind to give the 8510C more Points. This would work as follows: You do a whole SOLT-Cal for each band (e.g. 5-10, 10-15, 15-20) and safe them as Cal state 1, 2, 3. the software then controls the VNA to load the Cal-Data, make the sweep and then adds everything into one S-Paramter from 5-20 GHz with 3 times more data-points). Not sure about this one, if it's worth the hassle.Any suggestion for additional features is welcome. Once the code has come to a "non embarrassing" maturity, it will be published on my homepage for everybody to use.

author: hagster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 07:20:39 am
content: Before you get too much deeper into this take a look at this free software that will probably do what you want.http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/ssm.htm

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 07:45:39 am
content: You might be thinking of VNA.EXE:http://www.ke5fx.com/gpib/readme.htm#VNAIt would be neat to run 50 GHz sweeps in SSM on the 8510C, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the spurious responses.VNA.EXE won'tcontrolthe network analyzer, but it is almost indispensible for saving .S1P and .S2P files and storing/recalling calibration setups.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 10:24:35 am
content: QuoteYes.I'm using your toolkit for quite some time, ever since I got my HP 3561A... I believe since 2010. Especially the plotter-emulation is my best friend since it works with more or less everything.So thank you very much for your work there.Because of "Christmas-Things" happening around me, I can't work on it at the moment. I have a running first version, screenshots and some test-measurements will come after the 26th.

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 01:50:11 pm
content: Quote from: DL8RI on December 24, 2018, 10:24:35 amYou're very welcome! If you make some progress toward a complete control program, let me know and I'll add a link to the readme file for the toolkit.It is possible toemulate the time-domain security keywith a relatively cheap FPGA board (Mojo V3), and I would definitely recommend doing that if yours doesn't have the key. It's amazingly useful. If you manage to emulate it on the PC, you'll probably want to be able to compare the results.

author: DL8RI
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2018, 12:30:21 pm
content: As promised, now that Christmas is finally over, some more input.Setup:I used a switchable attenuator and measured S21. So nothing too complicated.Here you see the recording of the value at 4 GHz, sampled every second and for 30 seconds.After a few seconds I did switch the attenuator to higher attenuation. Obviously it's of very high precision at 4 GHz.The software is made as such:If you start the measurement, it will set the center-frequency of the VNA to the frequency you did set, span is set to zero and a marker is put onto the frequency chosen.Then the value is read every interval, you did chose. This does not work perfectly as the time until data-transfer is giving a significant delay. Instead of 5 data-points every 5 seconds, you get around 4.I will check on methods to speed this up, but there seems to be limits inside the 8510 on answering data-request.Next steps will be:- Include calibrated measurements (-> Load appropriate cal-set)- Polish the overall usability (view-options, saving of data, persistent config and so on) <- That's a lot of work behind the scenes- I did start on this beeper, that needs to be finished.Once that is done, I will publish a first version (hopefully I manage in the next days). And then start to work on new features.QuoteThanks. Yes I saw this procedure on KO4BB's site. The "security"-Boards including the Option-PAL are also available on eBay once in a while.I'm not so sure about the compatibility with my firmware-version. Maybe I get one of these FPGAs, but I'm rather lazy atm, as my other "low-freq" VNA up to 1.3 GHz can do this and for finding faults in cables the unit also okay.But I guess, even if it's just for the sake of completeness, I will do it some time in the futureWill have to dig into the 8510 anyway to change the lithium-battery sometime 2019.

author: eb3frn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 06:08:34 pm
content: Hi,somebody know if the power domain option is possible to activate from the pal?thank73! Ibaneb3frn

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2022, 10:03:50 pm
content: Just a few days ago I put an enhanced 8510 driver into scikit-rf:https://github.com/scikit-rf/scikit-rf/pull/591/commits/da4aeee29e506273897263e2d595e429c0b06282It doesn't support the power domain or know how to bypass the PAL, but it does know the line format, how to speak the binary protocol for fast transfers, how to chunk sweeps to work around the 801 point limit, etc. If you're looking to script this in python, it would help.Alternatively, I believe the 8510 achieves phase lock using the a parameter on the outgoing leg, so if you wanted to tap off a parameter from an incoming leg, you could. The output of the hexagonal mixer modules is well filtered, so I'm pretty sure you really could get away with just having a detector (see attached). Get that into a scope trace, take SWEEP OUTPUT from the source into another scope trace, and there you go. You'd have to calibrate it yourself, but if you're in the power domain, there's a very real chance you want do that anyway.

author: eb3frn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2022, 12:00:10 pm
content: HiWooooow, very interesting. It can be useful for me. I'm building a custom setup to measure noise figure using the cold source method. With the 8510c I' will measure the gain and s-parameters and I'm building a nose receiver to get the power. I wish to automate it and try to use the most parts of the 8510c to do it.You have some example about how manage the sweeps? My idea es do a sweep then switch to the noise receiver.73! and HNY Ibaneb3frn

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 04:13:52 am
content: Here's a bit of code in the wild:https://github.com/jjoonathan/F3560R-YIG-Filter/blob/main/F3560R%20Data%20Gathering.ipynbThe idea is that it uses a GPP-4323 power supply to set the current through a YIG filter and then it takes a sweep. Here is the 8510 relevant code:Code:hp8510c = skrf.vi.vna.HP8510C('TCPIP::ad007-right.lan::gpib0,16::INSTR') # Open Connectionhp8510c.set_frequency_ramp(start_hz, stop_hz) # Set up sweepskrf_network = hp8510c.s21 # Perform sweep, return results as a scikit-rf networkIt uses "ramp" mode to take a fast sweep, but the source is only locked at the beginning of the sweep. Step mode lets you take a sweep that phase locks at every point:Code:hp8510c = skrf.vi.vna.HP8510C('TCPIP::ad007-right.lan::gpib0,16::INSTR') # Open Connectionhp8510c.set_frequency_step(start_hz, stop_hz, npoint=10001) # Set up sweepskrf_network = hp8510c.s21 # Perform sweep, return results as a scikit-rf network

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2022, 04:17:30 am
content: You'll see that I use a GPIB->Ethernet adapter and pyvisa-py. This means no VISA drivers to install and it means that the code would run just fine on a raspberry pi or something, which would make it convenient to twiddle GPIOs, SPI, etc.