Is it me or is there really no datasheet for the Atmel SAM D10 ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2014, 06:28:05 pm
content: The product page is here:http://www.atmel.com/devices/ATSAMD10C13A.aspx?tab=parametersunder documents there is no datasheet.... Atmel are a pain is the ass, teir products are great but information is clear as mud but covers the ground or it would seem just not there.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2014, 06:52:15 pm
content: Atmel's website claims the D10 is compatible with the D20, so presumably you can use its datasheet.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2014, 09:40:48 pm
content: That is redicolus......

author: skennedy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 12:36:42 am
content: I would suspect that the part hasn't actually been released yet. No-one seems to have any stock of any of the SAM D10 range.Reminds me of when I looking at some NXP processors a few years ago and was sent a datasheet without any of the electrical characteristics. There were just placeholders for them to fill in when they had done some measurements.Looks like an interesting part.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 07:38:18 am
content: Oh they are flipping hopeless, All i want is a simple small ARM uC to start on, why do they always act like their universe is the only one that exists and we should all know it. Yes I could not find any either for sale.So next "stupid" question, as I come from the AVR uC's what is a good starting point to get into ARM based uC's ? the SAM D20 ?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 07:53:50 am
content: Depends what Cortex you want.It's important if you want floating point or vector processing, etc, different cortex have different instruction sets. So it all depends what do you want to do with it.

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:02:08 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 25, 2014, 07:38:18 amCould the Arduino Due possibly be a stepping stone? It has Atmel's 84 MHz SAM3X i.e. a Cortex M3 so in that sense it is a regular ARM development board. I recently bought one just for the hell of it and was pleasantly surprised how easy it is to do "real" development for it. For starters i more or less bypassed the Arduino environment and set up the hardware as i wanted. I next installed the FreeRTOS 8.1.2 Arduino port just to see if it works (it does, quite nicely in fact) and now i am busy implementing a small motor/servo control system demo using that setup. Implementing a hardware assisted quadtrature decoder input was a snap and now i am in the process of writing the setpoint sequencers, PID compensators and pwm modulators for the H bridges.While there are any number of cheap ARM dev boards around, Arduino Due is nice in that it is a continuation of the AVR based 8 bit Arduinos. You can just borrow stuff that you can't be bothered to write from scratch and all the interesting things can be written for a real ARM. Of course there are some basic differences such as lack of EEPROM support in ARM but there are ways to live with those.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:58:24 am
content: There are several huge threads here on STM32F ARM chips, a couple on Cypress ARM chips, and at least one on NXP.(All three of these companies have a broad range of chips.)Then there are TI and Silicon Labs (nee EFM)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 10:55:40 am
content: yes but I'm currently using atmel, already have the programmers for it. I just need to make a start, so i go to the manufacturers website to find what I hope is the lowest grade and simple chip to use so that I can migrate only to find the thing does not exist in real life. They could at least say so.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 11:12:09 am
content: I don't think the atmel arm chips use The same programmers as the avrs. :-((they do use the same IDE.)

author: Kremmen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 11:29:14 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 25, 2014, 10:55:40 amI usually check the availability from the usual vendors such as DK, Mouser etc before committing to a component. That way there are fewer disappointments in the late stages of a project.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 11:43:30 am
content: Quote from: westfw on November 25, 2014, 11:12:09 amThe Atmel-ICE supports both.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 11:52:42 am
content: You can get an STM32 Discovery board for less than $10, and it has the programmer and debugger built in. The freescale kinetis boards are pretty damn cheap too. But I think cypress takes the cake with a $5 dev kit, programmer and debugger included again.When I went ARM, it was to get away from Atmel

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 12:54:27 pm
content: Yes I have an ICE. I've not chosen a part yet, that is what I'm looking to do. The impressive thing about the SAM D20 os that it comes in a TQFP with 0.8mm pin pitch that I can actually solder, I have the programmer, away i go.I've had to meddle with TI MSP430 at work and got thoroughly hacked off by the fact that the software wants to update itself and/or the programmer every time you go to use it and it drove me nuts as i tried to show my boss how to use it for when he would be half way around the world doing a commission that needed variables tuning.

author: sporadic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 01:18:28 pm
content: The Cortex M0+ based D20 is a good choice IMO and readily available. The D21 adds USB and is what they're using in the new Arduino Zero.As for EEPROM on the D20, its implemented as a service in ASF and uses flash.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 07:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on November 25, 2014, 11:52:42 amIf you refer to the PSOC4 board it has a usb/serial adapter but no programmer. I don't think there is a debugger either. For someone who wants to start with the most common ARM chip and lowest cost these threads might help:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/one-dollar-one-minute-arm-development/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/stm32-ghetto-style/You really can't get a Discovery for $10 considering shipping but actually can have a dozen of the ones in that "dollar" thread for the same cost. Or a couple Ebay "cortex minimum development boards". STM32 has more support than any other ARM and is by far the most popular.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 07:47:10 pm
content: To be honest I'm not looking to use something just because it has a cheap-ass dev board.

author: fake-name
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 08:31:30 pm
content: I've done a few boards recently using the Atmel SAM4N series, and been quite happy with them.The ASF documentation for them is a bit sparse (as usual), but with a little reading between the lines, I've got all the peripherals I need working, and they're quite nice.I mostly chose them because I wanted > 50 MHz (just because) and wanted a 48-pin package.(Product page:http://www.atmel.com/products/microcontrollers/arm/sam4n.aspx?tab=documents)Code (and board files for altium) are in [this repo](https://github.com/fake-name/EORE/tree/master/Code/Prototypes/EORE%20Controller%20-%20Tigger%20R2/src)

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:14:51 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 25, 2014, 07:47:10 pmSo good luck with expensive, no docs, and pot luck support. Maybe they take preorders for the D10. From statements here I'm guessing you enjoy the challenge.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on November 25, 2014, 09:14:51 pmI would hope that any micro is properly documented and no if the D10 is not being made then I'm not interested, as already mentioned I'd look at the D20 that is available.If i buy a super cheap dev board and then find that the programmer for the chip is expensive where does that land me ? I have an atmel ICE, the TI equivalent is £120 when i got one for work and I'm not really in the mood for collecting tools, I just want to take a peek into the ARM world and then I can worry about if i want to jump ship etc.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on November 25, 2014, 07:16:38 pmIt has an onboard bootloader. No debugger though.Quote from: paulie on November 25, 2014, 07:16:38 pmI can get the stm32f0discovery at digikey for USD$8.80 (shipping not included) or USD$9.50 at RS (free shipping). So you definitely can. If you search on RS, you can also get cortexM3 versions for less than $10. The cortex m4 versions are a whopping $5 more.http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/programmers-development-systems/evaluation-boards-embedded-mcu-dsp/2621773?k=stm32f0discoveryhttp://au.rs-online.com/web/p/processor-microcontroller-development-kits/7587554In fact, the f0discovery comes with a protoboard as well (with gold plated holes, naturally), or at least it did the last three times I ordered them. It is my go-to board for when I need to whip up a one-off and don't want/need to make a PCB.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:36:58 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 25, 2014, 09:18:53 pmWe are on exactly the same wavelength in that respect. I was very disappointed the Cypress demo wants you to buy one of their hundred dollar programmers to work with new chips. To their credit STMs boards actually do have a built in STLINK programmer and debugger. All the chips, straight from the factory, have a serial bootloader so that's a plus.IMO cheap AND competent product is the best of all worlds. When you investigate dozens of devices from several different mfg then cost of those $20 eval boards and programmers does start to add up.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:42:20 pm
content: http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15001&langId=44&storeId=10151&categoryId=700000004185&sort=P_PRICE&st=sam%2020D&pageSize=25&showResults=true&pf=111868526,111868551Can't beat those prices for production, better than AVR's

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 09:47:56 pm
content: Quote from: jeremy on November 25, 2014, 09:36:18 pmIve been through this with Miguel. Yes, they were nice enough to burn one into the onboard chip but new ones from the factory require you to buy a pioneer or miniprog product. Or go the PSOC4 DIY science project route which I'm in the middle of right now.Apparently RS charges more for shipping to US because I couldn't get them down to $10 total. For me it was better to pick up a couple of those Ebay boards for the same cost and end up with a spare.As far as ATMEL the STM32F103 parts are cheaper, faster, and more features. But I understand people get attached to certain families so whatever floats your boat. ATM ST happens to be my personal lord and saviour. lol.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 10:01:10 pm
content: What is weird is that people don't get that you can program the device via standard SWD. Who is to say that the Atmel ICE won't work?I'm not going to assume it does either, but if you have Keil and it supports that programmer I don't see what the problem will be.But here are the programming specs:http://www.cypress.com/?docID=48133

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2014, 10:56:29 pm
content: Well as you made me aware there is an option on the menu for STLINK but I got "no target" message. Maybe there is additional configuration required or just PSOC4 not supported.My chips finally arrived after Fedex sent them back and forth to San Jose 4 times because of the way Cypress labeled them. It was surprising to see they packed each chip in it's own seperate box one hundred thousand times bigger than necessary (no exaggeration). Anyway I'm about to give the DIY programmer another try because some of these do cost a dollar and change small qty and would be nice to include in the one minute club.If that $4 STLINK worked it would have been a done deal.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 12:04:29 am
content: I guess I will have to purchase one to play with it, but now they have those PRoC blue tooth ones and have the programmer but $50 for the mouse/programmer, I'm still undecided.But That document states that SWD is an ARM standard and is therefore fully compliant, so maybe your programmer doesn't support SWD?Page 9 of the previously linked document:Quote

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2014, 10:53:40 pm
content: i take it there are no 5V ARM's ? i bought an atmega164 for £6 which is expensive for an ARM but then if i had to use 32 channels of mosfet drivers id be worse off anyway.......

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 02:06:32 am
content: There are several. PSOC4 for example with 1.7v-5.5v range. AVR and PIC no longer king of the mountain there with many of the new ARM chips having double or triple stage internal regulators.

author: sporadic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 05:33:19 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 26, 2014, 10:53:40 pmWhat kind of load requirements do you have? There are plenty of MOSFETs out there that can fully switch with 3.3v, depending on your needs. I'm using theIRLML6344in this LED strip driver controlling 300 LEDs per output. They're being driven directly from a Xmega8E5 running at 3.3v:

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 07:04:04 am
content: Yes i expect so, I'm just under the impression that low level logic level will cost more or not switch too quickly so like to keep it up at 5V, as I feel I'd just end up having to heatsink mosfets more.