ADC / DAC LC Filter Designer - Welcome to Try - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2015, 10:35:27 am
content: Hello!Welcome to try my new software tool for LC filter design.It is targeted at the mixed-signal device developers.http://lcfilter.ru/en/

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2015, 11:41:56 am
content: Care to mention how much the license fee will be?

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2015, 12:55:52 pm
content: Currently I estimate it as (350±50) USD with 80% probability.I know that it is expensive for hobbyists, but I don't know, do hobbyists actually need the tool like this, or only engineering companies.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 09:24:56 pm
content: There are already many (free) tools for this purpose.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2015, 09:27:43 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 23, 2015, 09:24:56 pmlike ? looks to me like he has models of cots parts in there which allows me to easily flick through them

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 03:22:10 am
content: Curious, if you have models of components, does that include the manufacturers' suggested models, or do you make your own?(Sadly, this is a trick question. None of the manufacturers provide a useful, lumped equivalent, frequency independent model. TDK SEAT and Kemet SPICE both make single-frequency equivalents (a useful approximation over perhaps a decade or two, but hardly complete), and Coilcraft has frequency-independent models (good to just over the SRF, usually), but they use frequency dependent elements, not constant lumped elements (thus making a transient simulation intractable to impossible).The differential filter shown is interesting. Do you have any means to control for the common mode impedance and frequency response?Can you do impedance matching or open/short type filters? Duplexers?Tim

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 03:01:24 pm
content: Thank you for replies!Yes, there are many tools for LC filter design, but this one is better for ADC and DAC front end.Currently it has only Touchstone models published by manufacturers.Some of them are not very well, but only manufacturers can improve them the right way.It is the reason, why TDK components are not supported at the moment: many of themhave negative resistances or wrong impedance sign at the lowest frequency.Common mode impedance and response control and analysis are not supported currently,as well as impedance matching and duplexers.But I am collecting all the feedback to estimate importance of the next possible features,so if you have something to say about it, I would be very grateful.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2015, 09:18:02 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 23, 2015, 09:27:43 pmThe latter doesn't seem very useful to me. There are new parts arriving all the time and availability of parts is also an issue. You might not want to design a filter which is very sensitive to component variation or which relies on the characteristics of very specific components. If you design a filter you already know how the capacitors and inductors should perform regarding operating frequency and tolerances. From there you select based on price and availability.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2015, 01:19:00 pm
content: Typically there is tradeoff between analog and digital stages.Relaxing the requirements to the one of them, like allowing any inductor with a given footprint,increases the complexity and cost of another one, or decreases total performance.But simply by changing components in filter you can improve the performance specsof the device, or lower the cost without lowering specs.It is simple but effective way to optimize the design.About availability and prices - it is good point, thank you.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2015, 01:24:16 pm
content: By the way, "welcome to try" does not mean "welcome to crack". It is definitely not welcome.Just curious, how long did it take to bypass protection?

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2015, 02:06:42 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 25, 2015, 01:57:30 pmLooks like ConfuserEx is not that safe after all...

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:28:38 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 24, 2015, 05:50:31 pmThis statement sounds approximately like: "Hey people, look, I broke someone's door and stolen his work."Is it the reason for pride anyhow?Absolutely not.It is something shameful.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:32:28 pm
content: Quote from: olegk on December 29, 2015, 10:28:38 pmYou can look at it anyway you want, but the wise thing would be to think about your protection, why it failed and what you can do to improve it.But hey, that's just my opinion.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:35:40 pm
content: Quote from: olegk on December 29, 2015, 10:28:38 pmSorry but this response is almost beyond lame. He showed you your front door isn't properly locked and you should be thanking him on your knees for pointing that out to you! He could have posted a crack tool on a warez site or something like that. Yes it must be frustrating you need to do a better job at securing your software but you should have investigated the protection more carefully to see how effective it is! Don't shoot the messenger!

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:39:09 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on December 29, 2015, 10:32:28 pm"Hey people, look, I've just killed someone, because he was too weak, here are photos!""Yeah, it is the victim guilt, he must be better protected."

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:44:58 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 29, 2015, 10:35:40 pmShowed what? That there are ways to violate license restrictions? Their existence is obvious.There is nothing here to thank for. Can this software be cracked? Sure. Like any other software.It is like rain. You can not avoid it, but that does not mean that everyone can pour somebody by water.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 10:49:58 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 29, 2015, 10:41:14 pmAnything you write can harm someone, even if you didn't see it.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 11:13:45 pm
content: Uh... right.Saying and doing are two different things.1. Say you visit a friend. He walks you up to the front door and he opens it. No lock, just a turn of the knob. You reflect on this, and suggest he take steps to better secure his property. (Whether he acts on that, it's generally accepted that that isn't your problem.)2. You decide to rob your friend. You discover it's quite easy, because he doesn't lock the doors while he's away. You remove property, and perhaps damage others.#1 is neither a crime nor an ethical problem. #2 is both.Present law concerning IP and software blurs these cases.- If the license says not to do certain things (within the limits of contract law), then violating those is a problem. For example, most commercial software contains statements limiting the debugging or disassembly of the product. (Whether this is semantically meaningful at all (which I would argue, it isn't) doesn't matter.)- If the user does things, but doesn't tell anyone else about it, then at worst, they've only violated their own obligations to the IP owner.- If the user distributes that information (a procedure to crack the specific software in question, or the cracked binaries, or a patch, etc.), it is criminal activity.The root conundrum is that: distributing, using and inspecting software is indistinguishable from #1 (which is neither unethical nor a crime), yet we define IP into existence so that criminal acts such as #2 become possible.This is only a horribly rough introduction to the problems of IP law and is not intended for discussion, argument or political motivation. To learn more, I suggest looking it up online, or atwww.eff.organd others.Tim

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2015, 11:20:49 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 29, 2015, 11:05:40 pmDidn't you think, that this software not uses hardware keys, license servers or online activation, because there are reasons for that?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 01:30:15 am
content: Quote from: olegk on December 29, 2015, 11:20:49 pmI've just spent 3 days reverse engineering one of those. It used 3 different types of encryption and a combination of static, random, and public key encryption but it's also susceptible to a basic replay attack because they made a fundamental implementation error in the way they use IV's. I had some time, and I was interested in how they did what did so I pulled it apart. I turned it on, but I pulled it apart too. Software is no different to hardware in that regard.Look, anything man can create, man can undo and given enough time and motivation someone will break your protection.You have two ways of dealing with it :A) Take any suggestions on-board and improve your protectionB) Ignore itBoth have the same result, because any improvement you make to the protection will just issue another challenge to a sufficiently motivated person.You wrote an awesome piece of software that serves two purposes. One it lets you design filters in a comprehensive fashion, and two it provides a puzzle to be solved. Some people will be interested in the first bit, and some will be interested in the second.Protection is to keep the honest people honest. It just happens to also provide a challenge to be solved. Let it go and work on the software. Someone breaking your protection is not going to dent anything but your pride, but if you acknowledge that there is actually nothing you can do to prevent your software being broken, then just ignore it and keep on keeping on.Haven't you looked at something (software or hardware) and asked "How does that work?". "Protection" is just software.Btw, nice software. I could really have used this 2 years ago

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 04:07:03 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 29, 2015, 11:29:27 pmWell, let me explain it more straightforward.Activation algorithm - is one of the smallest and simplest parts of this program.It is created the way it is intentionally, because my goal is very useful product, not very protected, while activation has absolutely no value for customers, and I prefer to trust my customers.Those, who want to crack it, will do it anyway. But I consider statements like "look, I cracked it" as demonstration of disrespect to the work of other people. This disrespect demoralizes and destroys motivation of developers. Especially when they don't say this aloud. This can lead to big failures and harms a project in a whole.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 04:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: BradC on December 30, 2015, 01:30:15 amThank you very much!It is interesting point about puzzle. I've never thought about it this way.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 06:47:14 pm
content: Happy Holidays and New Year everyone!Thank you for your interest, for replies, for attention and feedback!And, I don't know, happy electronics in the next year!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 08:34:13 pm
content: Quote from: olegk on December 30, 2015, 04:07:03 pmMore BSPeople who hack stuff improve the safety of IT systems so -for example- your bank takes proper measures to safeguard your money or software gets better protection against piracy. If you make something you'll always get remarks on ways to improve it!

author: Christopher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2015, 10:28:11 pm
content: Unfortunately, this would serve no use to me as I do not go near this kind of design (i'm sane).Your website and program look top notch, very usable with no unneeded frills. I wish I could design software half as clean looking as this.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: Christopher on December 30, 2015, 10:28:11 pmThank you so much!It is exactly what I dreamed of, working on this project!

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 10:59:02 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 30, 2015, 08:34:13 pmWhen you invite somebody to your home, you don't expect, that he will broke your windows, saying:"look, how easily I broke them, and now go and improve it, so I can broke it again".Quote from: BradC on December 30, 2015, 01:30:15 am

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 01:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: olegk on January 06, 2016, 10:59:02 amNo, but when you request feedback for your software in a forum full of engineers, you can be sure that somebody will point out some flaws with the design. He didn't publish the cracked software, he showed that it's very easy to remove your protection mechanism.Just as if someone told you that your front door is made out of thin cardboard and can easily be broken.Btw, what's the advantage of your tool over several other freeware filter calculators? This is no rhetorical question.

author: AlxDroidDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 03:14:26 pm
content: Quote from: olegk on December 29, 2015, 10:28:38 pmThis is an entirely different thing, and blueskill's crack doesn't fit in the context of a burglary. He actually helped you quite a lot, he did you a favour, and some developers actually pay a lot of $$$ for people to crack-test their protection mechanisms and report back on success/failure and methods used. He didn't steal anything from you and openly told you what he's done, and still promised not to make the crack public.Please don't be so hostile about this. See it as someone telling about a failure in your program, and one failure that actually might prevent you from having revenue from your program. Be thankful you now know your program can be easily cracked, there is no crack in the wild for it, so you have the time to improve your licensing mechanism.Think of blueskill's action as free software engineering consultancy!I might also give it a try with ollyDBG (my favorite for this kind of stuff).Quote from: olegk on January 06, 2016, 10:59:02 amStill with the burgraly analogies. It's not the same thing. His crack cost you nothing.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 04:26:19 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on January 11, 2016, 01:49:22 pmFilter design is more than just calculation.It is also selection of components values from preferred number series, selection of component models from families that fit the task, simulation of the circuit and analysis of performance metrics.This tool helps to do it all very fast and convenient.More details are available at the website:http://lcfilter.ru/en/Also there is comparison with RFSim99:http://lcfilter.ru/en/rfsim99/

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 07:07:21 pm
content: AlxDroidDev, thank you for your message.I understand this point of view, but have some disagreements with it.Anyway, I hope there are much more interesting things to discuss about this product.

author: AlessandroAU
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 09:58:33 pm
content: Olegk should be thankful for the free vulnerability testing! That kind of service costs good money in the real world.Who is app targeted at though? Any company serious enough about RF design would already be using something else.That said, the application is really quite good, it appears well written and thought out, the library looks extensive.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2016, 04:30:01 pm
content: Quote from: AlessandroAU on January 13, 2016, 09:58:33 pmAnd is absolutely meaningless for small products like this.Please read previous posts in this topic.Quote from: AlessandroAU on January 13, 2016, 09:58:33 pmThe app is targeted at design engineers, that develop mixed-signal processing devices.Probably, some advanced enthusiasts will want to use it also.Quote from: AlessandroAU on January 13, 2016, 09:58:33 pmThere are many reasons, why people buy new software.They can be not completely happy with tools they already use.New development teams and engineering companies are created pretty frequently.Existing teams and engineers can change direction of work.ADC or DAC conversion can be added to the new generation of devices, that were pure digital or analog before.And others. (For example, I have PreSonus StudioOne, because I love it, not because really need.)In some cases this tool do it's job much better than competitors.It helps to solve the task much faster, with better results, and is easy to start using.Quote from: AlessandroAU on January 13, 2016, 09:58:33 pmThank you!

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2016, 10:55:06 pm
content: Hello everyone!I am searching for a quick way to test purchase procedure on a live human from another country.If somebody here wants to buy this tool with big discount for $35 USD and provide feedback, please contact me.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 09:09:03 am
content: Purchase tested, feedback processed.Many thanks to my first worldwide customer!So now this tool is available for purchase.And some words about the latest release, that can save html design reports.Why are they useful?It is one self-contained file, that does not require additional software to view, is suitable for printing,convenient for exchange between engineers and publishing on the Internet.Design data can be easily extracted by hand or using a simple external ad hoc script.Text in report can be indexed for search by file managers and other software.It separates the result of design from the tool and makes it stand-alone.It allows you to get additional information, that does not impact filter design decisions, but can beused later at the level of device design (for example, metric size of components besides inches).Comments or suggestions? What do you think about it?An example of design report:http://lcfilter.ru/en/report/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2016, 11:36:59 pm
content: I think a report in PDF format is much better because you have more control over the layout. Printing HTML pages is usually pretty crappy.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 04:16:08 pm
content: New release.Implemented the analysis of suppression of 2x oversampling imaging/aliasing.This feature allows one to save digital resources and it is useful when these resources are limited.Implemented the analysis of the load capacitance impact.It helps to take into account the impact of input impedance of a sample-and-hold circuit of ADC.Tolerance analysis was reworked and now it works twice faster.

author: olegk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2016, 08:57:23 am
content: Do you want low-cost license for non-commercial use?Please vote at the top of the topic.