Oscilloscope training circuit? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 08:04:16 am
content: HelloI'm wondering if there any schematics or finished Training circuit's to be able to train reading values on oscilloscopes?Primarly for an analoge one, i am about to start learning but about it, but i learn faster by doing it practilly then just readin it in theory./MrZwing

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 08:06:57 am
content: The top sticky is a well made video showing what each control does, and most of the beginner traps,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/oscilloscope-training-class-%28long%29/The probe compensation output on most older scopes alone can let you understand the basic vert and horizontal divisions and the trigger amplitude,

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 08:16:56 am
content: put your finger on the probe end and you will get a more or less clean 50Hz mains pick from the air, your best bet for an anlogue scope is to build a few oscillator circuits, a simple 555 timer circuit could provide a signal to play around with, making the frequency and duty variable is not too difficult and the net is full of diagrams.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:13:28 pm
content: i was thinking in the line of training circuits though the few iv'e seen are pretty much that but a compackt form of it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:21:34 pm
content: Well basically you need to establish the sort of signals you will be working with and replicate that type so that you become familair with measuring them.

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:50:51 pm
content: Something like this for $10 will give you lots of experience looking at signals.It's a mini variable signal generator. As well as the output you can probe all over the board if you like looking at different signals.Will require a 5VDC power source to get it going.http://www.ebay.com/itm/321497693136

author: paul18fr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:57:49 pm
content: as a beginner, I plan to performe such tests ... when I'll have a scope (in a near furtur I hope)From my point of view, it's much more fun to build your own generator (square, sine - and probably triangle / I've not had a look to the later yet), with a 555 timer for example (you can easily find schematics on the net): you can change resistors values, capacitors ones, etc. ...Paul

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 01:01:59 pm
content: Quote from: Shock on September 04, 2014, 12:50:51 pmWhat does that circuit actually do ? I don't understand the "data inputs" reference, is it just an ADC, or is is making signals, it sounds like it outputs square waves and then low pass filters them to get the sine wave.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 01:07:59 pm
content: Velleman make an trainer kit.I think the DDS kit on ebay would take you further. Once you have some signals, you can look at bridge rectifiers, and amplifiers. Much more satisfying.Otherwise, there are some classic square to triangle circuits which you can trace the signal through. I cant find the exact circuit im after however. Thought it could do sine also?Finally 555 time will give you square wave, and can be adapted to do pwm signals. Perhaps just get another pwm generator on ebay along with dds would be best.Learning to use an oscilloscope isnt that hard. There are only 2 axis, time and voltage.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 01:30:53 pm
content: Rigol have the DS6000 demo board for scopes which produces lots of different signals but is quite expensive (163 euro or $218 from Batronix).http://www.batronix.com/pdf/Rigol/UserGuide/DS6000DemoBoard_UserGuide_EN.pdfI think some other scope manufacturers produce similar products.

author: paul18fr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 02:24:57 pm
content: concerning 555 timer and sine signal, I was mistaken (but I'm a newby)I was confused with 741 op-amp .... from Mims's notebooks

author: paul18fr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 02:51:32 pm
content: finally I remembered where I saw it for creating sine wave with a 555 timer:http://www.talkingelectronics.com/te_interactive_index.html(but I've never tested it yet)

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 02:53:34 pm
content: As I said above, low pass filter a square wave and you get a sine or something close.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 03:30:44 pm
content: Your whole home is likely filled with training circuits. Start taking apart low powered devices that you don't use that much and start poking around. Ideally get ones with external power so you know everything inside is safe to poke at. In the case of things like TV set top boxes, VCRs, DVD Players, they tend to build the power supply as a separate board or cut a long groove or make it very obvious where they end and the digital circuitry begins.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 05:14:08 pm
content: I must thank everyone who has contribued to this thread so far, got alot of good tips and ill be looking on each and every one of them. and probably try them all... well except that really expensive test board.having a ok generator like the E-bay one to experiment with the oscilloscope is a nice thing and also building my own as a training projekt and test it on an oscilloscope is a great idea.MrZwing

author: liquibyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 05:25:25 pm
content: I built this to test whether or not my scope was working right. The circuit works and the scope does too.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 06:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: liquibyte on September 04, 2014, 05:25:25 pmseams like a nice circuit i'll add it to my lists to build in the near future.thank you for sharing it./MrZwing

author: liquibyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 08:50:52 pm
content: Here's a crappy fuzzy picture of how I fit it on some perfboard.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:03:29 pm
content: You can of course still get (mostly on ebay and probably chinese copies) the once very popular ICL8086, 0.001Hz -300KHz signal generator chip, square, sine and triangle all at once.I just came across one in a box of bit's a fellow forum member gave me, when i was in school these used to cost like £20, now much less on ebay.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:26:05 pm
content: Simple.Nice.liquibytecan you also put the Frequency of operation in your post?

author: liquibyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 10:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 04, 2014, 09:26:05 pmI honestly have no idea. I wanted to see if I could get waveforms at a low voltage on a scope that one of the members here sent me in a trade. I had no idea if the scope was any good so searched out a simple signal generator and this is one of the simple ones that came up. I just cobbled it together from stuff I had and even had to go to RS to get a 555 as I didn't have one.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 10:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: liquibyte on September 04, 2014, 10:23:46 pmLikely it can be calculated an a 555 calculator.Nice little circuit for the novice, plenty of points to probe for functional understanding and straight forward to build.Could easily be modified include a "limited" frequency adjustment too.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 05:58:55 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 04, 2014, 09:03:29 pmIs it the ICL8036 you mean? and is it an IC since when i put in ICL8086 on ebay it won't show any results. and who was the original manufacurer of it?thank you for your tip./MrZwing

author: paul18fr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 06:27:14 am
content: @MrZwinganother one:http://www.eleccircuit.com/function-generator-by-ic-1458/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:11:00 am
content: Quote from: MrZwing on September 05, 2014, 05:58:55 amYou are probably right, it's made by intersil and if you google the part a datasheet is still available and a FAQ sheet. I think it was quite something in it's day and it's cost was probably what stopped it surpassing the 555

author: sfiber
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:17:54 am
content: I dont think you should purchase any circuit to train yourself on osciloscope using,if you have any basic timer IC and general purpose using opamps.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:21:42 am
content: ILC8038 is what you're after. Neat chip, very flexible outputs!Sent from my Smartphone

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:26:33 am
content: Quote from: sfiber on September 05, 2014, 07:17:54 amWell i am planing on an combination of a cheap training circuit and a cheap generator AND building my own curcuits to learn more aspects of electronics, the more stuff i experiment with the more i learn is my thought about this but ill use your tip as well as the other's.i am also thinking about building my own Audio system as a long term project while i learn and read books (learn from Audiophiles not audiofools) and forums on the matter. i also have many more projeckts but i think a complete ausiosystem is a big thing to take on for a novice and a way to propperly challenge my self and learn./MrZwing

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:28:17 am
content: Quote from: timb on September 05, 2014, 07:21:42 amNice good to know, ill take a look at it and see it as a way to teach my self about datasheets as well as designing something around it./MrZwing

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:28:59 am
content: Then just build a 555 circuit to test the scope with and get on with your projects, you will soon find stuff to probe, you need to separate checking the scope works and learning to use it on your projects.Often a scope can a cal output at 1KHz, give that a go.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 07:43:19 am
content: When Tektronix gave me my MSO2024B, they also threw in a nice little "educational board" that has 25 or so outputs on it. Various waveforms, some with glitches and noise on them, plus data interfaces (UART, I2C, CAN, LIN, parallel) with a selectable option for random errors and a few clock signals.It was a great way to learn the features of my scope. Especially the glitch triggering and noise filtering.I should design a similar Open Source board with an MCU+DAC.Sent from my Smartphone

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 08:42:29 am
content: Quote from: Simon on September 05, 2014, 07:28:59 ami accualy have a analoge scope that a firend offerd me to buy from him. he bought it directly form a guy who works with calibrating and renovtes oscilloscopes so it is in mint and top condition since my firend havent really used it at all.and i'll experiment, build and rip things apart as i find them to learn thing's/MrZwing

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 08:48:09 am
content: I am aslo planning in the future to buy the recomended "Rigol DS1050E" since havinbg a compact oscilloscope is nice, but i think ill learn a bit more to start with an analoge one and the one i have been offred cover up to 100MHz. but to be honest don't know how many MHz one needs but i guess you can use it for more stuff if it is higher./MrZwing

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 09:48:56 am
content: Quote from: MrZwing on September 05, 2014, 08:48:09 amI've seen some very advanced design checked with only a 60 MHz DSO.General consensus is 100 MHz bandwidth is more than enough for most hobbyist work.You can often select a low spec model in a model range that goes into the 100's of MHz as the input front ends are the same for the range and the bandwidth is set with software.70 MHz will be enough for all but advanced and RF work.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 10:56:34 am
content: Well i want to experiment with most thing within electroniks but be more specifik within some branches like audio and microcontrolled systems. But i will try to build some RF and Ham radio's just to see how they work and if i can do but hen i can use the analoge 100MHz scope and use the digital 50MHz for the rest.. well untill i can afford a 100MHz digital scope of a good make./MrZwing

author: makerimages
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 01:00:01 pm
content: Here's a simple circuit, generates a square wave of XTAL frequency for you. Cheap, toosource: z80.info

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 03:18:13 pm
content: Simple switching regulators make good training circuits. The switch drive and output signals are good for two channel measurements and diode reverse recovery time teaches about delayed acquisitions.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 03:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: liquibyte on September 04, 2014, 05:25:25 pmVelman sell that circuit as a kit for less than you can buy the parts.http://www.theelectronicsshop.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p31_mk105.html

author: liquibyte
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 03:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: MrZwing on September 05, 2014, 07:26:33 amI have found this site to be handy for all kinds of stuff from calculations to pitfalls to avoid. Very good material here.http://sound.westhost.com/articles.htmThis place has excellent material as well, especially the stuff on transformer winding.http://ludens.cl/Electron/Electron.html

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 07:19:28 am
content: Quote from: timb on September 05, 2014, 07:43:19 amWell the oscilloscope I'm buying off a friend is quite an oldie so ( Tektronix 465B ) so cant count on he giving me a training circuit not even 100MHZ probes so i have to get them off Ebay or something and hope I'm lucky on the quality part.and designing my own circuit is maybe a bit much at the moment but not unlikely in the future. but all tips and advice is great to get and i am thankful for the support of this community.and i am an upstart within/MZwing

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 07:24:53 am
content: Quote from: MrZwing on September 06, 2014, 07:19:28 amJust get some P6100 probes from eBay or Aliexpress, cheap and good quality.

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 02:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on September 06, 2014, 07:24:53 amI'll look into it have a tight budget a the moment so every penny saved helps.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 07:46:47 pm
content: Yeah I got some P6100 probes off Amazon (with Prime shipping) for like $10 or $15 when I bought my old analog Tek scope off eBay. They'll work great for you needs!Sent from my Smartphone

author: MrZwing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 08:04:46 pm
content: i will order some P6100 probes at the end of the month when i get some cash, hopefully my capacitors will come with the mail this week so i can start experimenting with circuits and start learning.thank you all for all the helpful answers this will probably not be my last question here/MrZwing