Therm-App HZ vs Thermal Expert TE-Q1Plus vs HTI HT-301 vs Xinfrared Xtherm T3Pro - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: beppe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 10:29:21 am
content: Hello everyone, I am new in this very interesting blog, my name is Giuseppe and my nick is beppe; I am interested in purchasing a low-cost thermal viewer for use in war games (lasertag), with human sensing distances of up to about 500 meters.The viewers that interest me are the following:Therm-App HZThermal Expert TE-Q1 PlusHTI HT-301Xinfrared Xtherm T3 ProThey are all with the same resolution (384x288), all with the same 25hz refresh rate, all with the same 13mm goals. except Therm App which has a 19 mm mount; I see that there are differences on the NETD, Therm App is 0.07 while Hti and Xinfrared is 0.06 and Thermal Expert is 0.05 .... I'm not an expert in thermography, so I ask you which of the 4 has the better images (my use is nocturnal) and without counting the price, how do you classify them from the first to the last place, for my needs?Thanks in advance.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 11:32:47 am
content: I don't think the ThermalExpert Q1 has any 30hz option. So that won't work well. There are threads about the Hti with good example images. Although understand they are sharpened and upscaled.also take a look at the lens aperture. f/1 Gas twice the light compared to f/1.4

author: beppe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 12:08:44 pm
content: Looking at the technical specifications of Thermal Expert Q1 Plus there is nothing written about 25/30 hz, so it only works at 9 hz? If so, then the waste does not suit me.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 09:52:58 pm
content: You are absolutely right in saying that low frame rates are not suitable. For your application you NEED 25 or 30Hz frame rate. By the way, in practice there is no difference between 25Hz and 30Hz.Don't be too taken by the claimed NETD specifications. You will see many discussions on this forum about that topic and two things are clear: no two companies measure NETD the same way so comparisons are basically meaningless, and the lens plays a far more important role in determining real-life performance.The ThermApp Hz, TE-Q1 Plus and HTI HT-301 are all very capable cameras of broadly similar performance. So really it will come down to the physical form factor and the software.You don't mention exactly how you intend to mount your camera - hand-held, or attached to something else (the laser gun?). The ThermApp cameras have a threaded tripod mounting hole in the base that means the camera can be fixed firmly - it doesn't rely on a fragile USB connector. The ThermApp camera has a clamp that grips the phone, meaning you can make a pretty solid arrangement that won't get damaged as easily as some other possibilities.I should point out that I am well known for my bias towards ThermApp cameras and have little experience with other dongle types, though I do own a reasonably wide range of thermal imagers.You may find the 13mm f/1 lens works better than the 19mm f/1.1 lens. It gives a slightly wider field of view and is a bit more sensitive. Some time ago I did acomparison of different lensesthat work with the ThermApp and similar cameras. The main findings were that the 19mm lens is equivalent to a 105mm lens on a 35mm film camera, whereas the 13mm is equivalent to about 70mm. Both of these are narrower angle than the 'normal' 50mm lens. I have used the 6.8, 13 and 19mm lenses with a VR-type visor for navigating in the dark and for close-in working the 6.8mm works well but the 13mm gives a much better 'long' view without becoming so telephoto that you bump into things or give yourself motion sickness.The final, crucial point is the driver software that works with the camera. The stock software works, of course, but I can thoroughly recommend ThermViewer (which works with ThermApp and, I believe, Xtherm cameras). It gives much better pictures than the stock apps, with better noise reduction and general image processing - including real-time superresolution processing, which improves considerably the perceived resolution of the camera.Oh, and finally finally: don't rely on manufacturer-provided images to judge the quality of the camera or its noise performance.Quote from: Ultrapurple on December 06, 2019, 10:58:34 amto see what can be done with a little image manipulation (in this case, image stacking). There are techniques well known to members of this forum that can giveveryhigh resolution from a standard sensor and/or eliminate virtually all of the image noise, making a relatively poor camera look absolutely magnificent.I hope I have give you some things to think about.

author: RBsonic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 10:19:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ultrapurple on December 07, 2019, 09:52:58 pmThat's right, but only if your cameras work stable with these frame rates. If you have choise, I would recommend 30Hz. In real situation it can be only 27-30Hz and it will still smooth, but 22Hz will not.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2019, 10:28:11 pm
content: Quote from: RBsonic on December 07, 2019, 10:19:28 pmWith respect, that could be a little misleading.For any 25 or 30Hz dongle-type camera the frame rate youactuallyget depends crucially on the power of the phone's processor and what (if any) background tasks are going on in the phone. A good quality phone made in the last two or three years should have no difficulty in providing a solid 25 or 30Hz frame rate - I have an old Samsung S7 that is absolutely solid at 25Hz with the 384x288 ThermApp and is almost as good with the ThermApp Pro 640x480 camera, which has much more demanding processing requirements.

author: beppe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 02:16:02 am
content: I thank everyone for the advice you gave me, recommend Therm-App or Ht-301 because they have similar performance, but I understand that the HT-301 has only 13 mm (f / 1 or higher?) As a goal and it has no 19 mm, while Therm App has 4 different objectives in the catalog (6.8 - 13 - 19 and 35 mm.); however the HT-301 has the big advantage of costing a lot less (about 600 $ account 1700 $ of Therm-App !!!!). The thermal visor should be mounted on a 20 mm picatinny rail. of a softair replica of AR15 (asg ...), I know for sure that there is such an attack for Therm-App, but for HT-301 I don't know ... In the HTI catalog I also saw this: HT-A3 HUNTING THERMAL IMAGER (384 × 288), costs just over $ 1000, but maybe it suits my needs ...

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 09:20:43 am
content: There is no question that a rifle scope type thermal imager will work extremely well in your application.First, and most important, it will be rugged - probably water resistant - which none of the dongles can claim.Second, it will have eyepiece optics designed for the purpose.Third, as an all in one device the processor and software will be properly matched: if it says 25Hz, you will GET 25Hz, guaranteed.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 03:14:19 pm
content: Your application is s physically active game, and the cameras require connection to a phone. Did you think about how you will protect cameras and phones. A 6 inch screen phone is nog something i would be willing to mount on a stick and swing it around.

author: MIT_TIM
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 08:35:17 am
content: T3Pro has great advantanges in image quality. Xinfrared has Matrix Ⅲ image algorithm, so the images are fluent and clear, and abundantly detailed, with few noisy points or blind elements. The APP UI of T3Pro is clearer and easier to use than the others.P.S. The detectors of HTI are provided by IRay, the company who produces Xinfrared series products.

author: beppe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 09:03:11 am
content: Ultrapurple >[There is no question that a rifle scope type thermal imager will work extremely well in your application.First, and most important, it will be rugged - probably water resistant - which none of the dongles can claim.Second, it will have eyepiece optics designed for the purpose.Third, as an all in one device the processor and software will be properly matched: if it says 25Hz, you will GET 25Hz, guaranteed.]Thanks for the information...-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Bud >[Your application is s physically active game, and the cameras require connection to a phone. Did you think about how you will protect cameras and phones. A 6 inch screen phone is nog something i would be willing to mount on a stick and swing it around.]There are picatinny attacks for smartphones and being airsoft replicas, there is no recoil of bullets; the phone is IP67 (huawei Mate 10 Pro ...), I don't know if the thermal vision dongles have a protection against water, but for me it wouldn't be a problem, because if it rains, I wouldn't use the dongle.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------MIT_TIM >[T3Pro has great advantanges in image quality. Xinfrared has Matrix Ⅲ image algorithm, so the images are fluent and clear, and abundantly detailed, with few noisy points or blind elements. The APP UI of T3Pro is clearer and easier to use than the others.P.S. The detectors of HTI are provided by IRay, the company who produces Xinfrared series products.]So is it correct to say that HTI HT-301 and Xinfrared Xtherm T3 Pro are the same, given that both use IRay technology? If so, then you should buy HT-301, because it costs less than T3 Pro ... Do you agree?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Is there a review of the thermal viewer HT-A3 HUNTING THERMAL IMAGER (384 × 288), or some more information than what is on the HTI website, or an equivalent product with about the same price?

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 02:41:51 pm
content: I think what would suits you best is a "thermal monocular".Things like a Flir scout (so many versions), leupold lto tracker, pulsar axion XM22 key, guide IR-510, etc.These are like handled versions of thermal scopes: as rugged, cheaper (500-2000$), with smaller sensors.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 05:23:49 pm
content: Perhaps look for some of the older Raytheon 'Thermal Eye' series cameras on eBay etc ?Many were however only 160x120 pixel, so choose model carefullyBill

author: BUMERANG
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 15, 2019, 07:22:55 pm
content: Всем доброго времени суток!Недавно приобрел тепловизор "Thermal Expert TE-Q1Plus"Покупал здесь -https://www.avito.ru/moskva/remont_i_stroitelstvo/teplovizor_thermal_expert_q1_plus_ot_dilera_1150967117(продавец известный на определенных ресурсах)Вот сразу пару фоток как говорится из коробки:На фото видно сразу, что по середине офиса имеется труба центрального отопления скрытая кафельной плиткой напольной