ESD Screwdrivers, tweezers and other tools: vital or marketing?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 08:07:43 am
content: So, I am about to go to the store to huy some precision screwdrivers of various brands to see what I like before I invest in a large set of a certain brand. I would like this topic to handle the aspects of ESD-safe branded tools so let's not go about arguing what brand is best.A lot of brands have ESD safe labled screwdrivers, tweezers, and other tools. I was wondering if these tools were worth the extra. For tweezers, I don't understand how a piece of metal conneted to you (who are grounded through a wriststrap) can have ESD issues.Screwdrivers are a different matter since they are generally purposely made isolating.Is this really vital, and worth the extra cost (and often more limited assortment)? I'm a advanced hobbyist who does some one off professional work at home.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2017, 10:15:35 am
content: For tweezers, esd safe may have a disspative coating to your hands, vs the normal plastic dip, but personally i love non-magnetic tweezers, (cannot be magnetized, but a magnet will still stick to them, just to clarify), There is nothing worse than dealing with 0402's that will not let go of the tweezers. or 3 surrounding parts jumping towards them when you place a new one (I have some fun memories of steel ones)For other tools, when will you be using a screwdriver to poke or prod IC pins?, i personally use a plastic rod or a wood skewer for things like that. but for 99% of stuff, i would be using the tweezers or a micro vacuum tool for moving components, that are too big for the tweezers.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 10:37:28 pm
content: QuoteBut flux/paste is bigger problem than magnetism. This why you need vacuum pickup to place, and tweezers to adjust/hold.Many tweezers are painted. I assume ESD safe tweezers are the painted variety, and they use a semiconductive paint (or maybe just misted with a light coating of "ESD spray" that might last a few hours before it rubs off.)In any case, it's 99% marketing faff.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 12:37:02 am
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on July 29, 2017, 08:07:43 amFor general use, it's not necessary; particularly if you're properly grounded*. If there's a charge, suspected or real, all you need to do is touch the metal shaft prior to it contacting anything sensitive, such as a COB part before it's potted. Same goes for tweezers; bare metal are just fine (hint: this type are used to handle wafers prior to packaging).* 1M between you and safety earth. It's also important to note that resistively conductive ESD coatings are useless if you're not strapped in.Quote from: Rerouter on July 29, 2017, 10:15:35 amFWIW I've a mix of SA, NC, and Ti, and a magnet doesn't stick to any of them (just rechecked them to be sure my memory wasn't short-circuiting on me... again).Orange sticksornylon spudgersare perfect for touching/manipulating components, including sensitive ones; they also aid in bending component leads, routing 30AWG Kynar wire wrap wire for interconnects, .... Really handy, and not very expensive either.Quote from: KL27x on July 30, 2017, 10:37:28 pmDefinitely.FWIW acetone or other strong solvent is your friend.I'll echo the usefulness of a vacuum tool. In my case, I picked up a usedVirtual Industries TV1000cheap on eBay. It's an older unit so the front panel is all grey; paid $45 for it IIRC and it was complete (less than 20% of a new one). They come up often if anyone is interested; just make sure it has the pen portion in order to get the best deal (multiple models), as a new pen/handpiece is ~$50 new and the kit version ~$79 (includes the coiled 2mm hose + 9 tips w/ suction cups).

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 01:27:44 pm
content: In my opinion, ESD is necessary when growing your precision screwdriver collection...because they're different colors, get hex or torx in ESD so you can easily tell them from Phillips and slotted.I definitely can recommend Felo, Wiha and Wera precision screwdrivers, they're all excellent. One of my favorite buys was a 5mm Wera nutdriver for VGA/DVI screws for my work tool bag. It's longer than the other precision screwdrivers so I can grab it from the tool roll without looking and opening it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 11:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: BMack on July 31, 2017, 01:27:44 pmEasy identification of the right driver is certainly handy, but you don't have to resort to ESD versions (doesn't hurt, but ESD variants usually costs more). Different series', grips, or even brands can accomplish this instead and shave a little off of the cost (especially when it's ~$2 more per driver, even in sets).For example, you could mix standard/classic Wiha precision screwdrivers with the newer Picofinish grips, usual blade versions that fit into a single handle (no dimples in the blades), or the newer Drive-Loc products (uses the dimpled blades).In my case, I've done this with 4mm Drive-Loc*, 6mm Drive-Loc, and standard drivers from Wiha. I also have some Moody* and PB Swiss with 2 different grip styles to tell the Phillips & Slotted from one another for commonly used standard drivers (Multicraft & Classic grips respectively).* These versions are ESD compliant, but that's the only way they're made.

author: Mattjd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 09:29:01 am
content: So dont spend mad $$ on Knipex ESD tools?

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 10:17:29 am
content: Quote from: Mattjd on August 01, 2017, 09:29:01 amWood duck prices for placebo tools, stay away and keep shopping

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 11:04:42 am
content: I also own the Wiha system 4 and 6 bitset and bought the esd holder, very good quality.You can also buy a standard ESD bitholder so you can just use all the regular bits and still be ESD safe, thats the most bang for your buck IMO.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 11:22:07 am
content: Quote from: Mattjd on August 01, 2017, 09:29:01 amNope.Besides, you can do better than Knipex for cutters & pliers (and they use ESD compliant grips).Seriously, if you're in the market for cutters and/or pliers, take a look atSchmitz. They're the ODM for a number of tier 1 companies such as Bernstein, CK Tools, Gedore, NWS (yellow grips), and others. But as you're buying directly from the manufacturer, they're typically half the cost or less than other brands (i.e. rebranded Schmitz, Knipex, Erem, and Lindstrom). If you're in the US, both Tronex and Swanstrom cutters are worth a serious look as well.FWIW I've cutters from Tronex, Swanstrom, Erem, CK Tools (rebranded Schmitz), Belzer, and Lindstrom. My pliers are Schmitz, and unlike other brands, the teeth hold up instead of flattening out.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:49:02 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on July 31, 2017, 11:48:40 pmA lot of people like having the same brand. I personally agree with your way of doing it, that's why I bought the Wera nut driver, it sticks out in my Felo driver tool roll.The Felos are inverted colors from Wiha. I think I'd recommend that over getting Pico and regular Wiha, aesthetically...but the Picos are the only precision screwdrivers I know that label the top of the screwdriver.Witte has three color variations also. I love their regular screwdrivers too.Wera has yellow and green.I'm sure Gefore precision screwdrivers are great, their standard sized screwdrivers are probably my favorite.I'd love to try Hazet too. PB swiss is also a great option. You could also add in the Japanese options, most of those are all metal and can vary a lot in quality.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 03:23:15 am
content: Quote from: BMack on August 02, 2017, 02:49:02 amHaving ID markings on the end is nice, but in the case of precision screwdrivers, I'd wonder about the ink wearing off as the end-cap spins (= gets a LOT more wear & tear vs. standard sized drivers with such markings). I mention this, as I've had the ink on the grips wear off due to friction from my hands (newer formulations are more environmentally friendly, but they're nowhere near as durable IME).I'm not sure how well the Japanese brands are known of vs. the EU products. As per screwdrivers, Vessel is probably the best. Koken's sockets are impeccable, and KTC's products are usually of excellent quality as well (take a look at theNeprosline). Plenty of others too.Personally, I gravitate towards the industrial brands such as Proto, Armstrong, Williams, ... for more general purpose tools (sockets, wrenches,...). The reason is they're excellent quality (as good as truck brands, if not better), but at a fraction of the price for truck brands. Cornwell makes good stuff too, and despite it's a truck brand, they're much better priced; harder to find though. I've alsoKT Pro(Taiwanese brand), and it's as good as Proto and truck brands (I've done suspension work with them, and they handled it with ease).

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 03:33:03 am
content: PB Swiss are really nice, they should be better known. Their screwdrivers are individually laser numbered

author: Sceptre
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 03:40:15 am
content: Quote from: TheUnnamedNewbie on July 29, 2017, 08:07:43 amBy contacting a charged device or board - in ESD testing and simulation, this is known as Charged Device Model. At the moment of contact, it doesn't matter if the conductive (e.g. metal) object is directly grounded, grounded through a downstream megohm resistor, or floating. If there's a significant voltage difference between the tool and device pin, there will be an ESD event.Most organizations protect against CDM events with dissipative mats, shielded/dissipative bags and containers, and humidity (to reduce charge buildup on devices). High-reliability, mission-critical systems with especially sensitive devices employ additional measures, for instance tweezers with dissipative ceramic tips (to limit current from devices that charged despite the primary control measures).One other complication is that an ESD-safe label is no guarantee of an ESD-safe tool. None, to my knowledge, are independently tested to a commonly accepted standard. Some organizations test tool samples and maintain a database of approved/rejected tools.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 04:31:34 am
content: Quote from: helius on August 02, 2017, 03:33:03 amOnly from 1992 to present. But it proves they're serious about making a quality product IMHO.FWIW, my Phillips are etched with S/N's (produced in '08, '12, and '13), but my slotted drivers are not. I prefer the stamped size number on the older products vs. etched on more recent units, as it's easier to read IME.

author: jh15
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 05:54:56 am
content: Suddenly, I get loud sound from commercials playing on this page, is it me?I like to do eevblog late reading without waking the neighborhood.