Machinery requirements for US market - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: V_King
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2022, 06:24:43 pm
content: Hello,I know it is a long shot, but I will try!My boss wants me to look into possibility of selling one of our products into US/Canada market. It is a simple machine with one 2.2kW motor<->VFD<-modbus-> small controller.As a lot of things into USA, price is very important to make it viable, so I need to look into cost savings. Is there a some sort of easy to read handbook into regulations (if there are any) for US market, for machinery, to be used in small commercial and domestic'ish environments. For example, are EMC filters necessary? Are there minimum IEC* motor efficiency requirements? Anything else a must have? I started with looking at what current offering is and first impressions are a bit like wild west. Do whatever you want as long as you don't get sued? It is a very low volume and very specialised product so I don't expect it to sell in large volumes anyways. And none of the UK reps I have spoken so far know anything about application for machinery across the pond.I have just started looking into it, but being in UK, everything is point into UK and EU, when searching on google. Might have to pretend somehow I am in USA to get more relevant information.

author: andy3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 02:48:34 am
content: You may have to look in to UL standards (https://www.google.com/search?q=UL+standards+for+electrical+mechinery&rlz=1C1AVFC_enUS769US769&oq=UL+standards+for+electrical+mechinery&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30.15328j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)and also, OSHA standards (https://www.google.com/search?q=OSHA+standards+for+electrical+machinery&rlz=1C1AVFC_enUS769US769&oq=OSHA+standards+for+electrical+machinery&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l2.17648j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)There may be others. Try contacting a US trade office-may be a part of the US embassy in the UK.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 03:40:51 am
content: Quote from: V_King on February 22, 2022, 06:24:43 pmWithout knowing what it actually is, it is hard to tell you where to start. Maybe here:https://www.cpsc.gov/Regulations-Laws--StandardsRight off the bat I can tell you that a 2.2kW motor means it cannot be used with standard US wall sockets. As far as cost sensitivity, don't assume the US market is homogenous.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 03:47:46 am
content: Do you anticipate powering it from 208 V, 60 Hz, 3-phase or 240 V single phase (center neutral)? As stated above, 120 V, 20 A single-phase is difficult (not impossible) in US.

author: WattsThat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 04:19:53 am
content: Yes, electrically, the US is the Wild, Wild West.As stated, 2.2KW is not practical with our standard 15 amp 120V 1ph wall socket power. 20 amp devices require a special plug on the machine and a matching receptacle, type Nema 5-20P.Industrially, 208V 3ph is not common, only in the New York metro area. Overall the states, 460-480v 3ph is the standard for machinery. 220-240v single phase is available but not common as it usually requires a transformer in 460/480 facilities.For the industrial market, not residential:There are no motor efficiency requirements when controlled with a vfd. Motor salespeople will state otherwise but the Dept of Energy requirements are for direct-across-line motors only.No EMC requirements here for industrial settings but CE 2nd environment filters are good to include if you can.UL listing of the machine is not required but a control panel mounted on the machine may be required to meet the UL 508 standard, depending upon were the machine is installed. In large cities, for example, New York, Chicago (actually, all of County County) and Los Angles are examples of where you may not be able to get a permit for an electrical connection without a UL label on the machine. It depends on many factors but know that if your machine can meet the CE/EN machinery and low voltage directives, it should meet UL requirements when UL listed components are used. In those specific markets, you’ll need a licensed shop in US to create a UL file for the device and place the required label UL on the electrical panel.

author: V_King
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2022, 08:05:44 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies. It is very early days and just trying to build a picture if it is worth a hassle. One can get lost in the official standards for months or years and miss a point. The aim is to probably have 1.5kW/2Hp motor and 110V is a must.WhattsThat, thank you very much for some practical pointers, that is what I am after to begin with. How far does the panel definition stretch with the UL description? Does the "machine on" indication light and an emergency stop button constitute a control panel? And do you mean UL is self certified as well, like most of the CE directives? That would be a huge relief.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2022, 08:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: V_King on February 24, 2022, 08:05:44 pmIn theory, yes. In practice, if under any load, no. Many years ago, I bought a now commercial duty, 2 HP Delta 6" belt sander with disk rated for our 115/230. Ran almost OK on the lower voltage, but starting and any decent load tripped the circuit breaker. In reality, I could only use it in 220/230V.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2022, 08:56:45 pm
content: Quote from: V_King on February 24, 2022, 08:05:44 pmYou would need a PFC VFD that limited peak power to 1800W (15A, 120V, very high PF) and continuous power to 1440W (12A, 120V, very high PF) under all circumstances in order to have a product that can be plugged into typical wall sockets without causing problems. If your machine needs 2HP to operate, you are right at the limits of what can be done with state-of-the-art efficiency, provided this requirement is not continuous. Continuous 2HP mechanical power from a motor connected to a typical wall socket is just not possible. There are products that purport to have more power, like my '7HP' vacuum cleaner but those are all bogus claims based on non-continuous and often ridiculous specifications.QuoteIs your product installed or portable? If it is installed in a jurisdiction requiring a UL label, self-certification doesn't work, except for the fraudulent type that is actually fairly common.

author: V_King
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 10:19:25 am
content: What about 110V 20A sockets? I see there are two options in US, 15A and 20A.Portable is a bit of a grey area. Machine is 150kgs (~300lbs) and is usually installed in a permanent location. But some clients put them on a trolley with castors and drag it around. Some power the machines off a generator in a field, again brought in on a "truck". So I would probably put it in a large welder category kind of portable.The belt sander mentioned I guess was directly wired to the motor. Our application uses VFD, and modern VFDs do a very good job to soften the pulsating loads.On the other hand, the more I look into it, the more it looks like nobody gives a second though about UL etc etc from the user perspective in the free world. Unless there is an unfortunate chap, whom is assigned all that in a large corporation, but we have the machines already to meet all that at 200-240VAC input range. One company in US, which would be closes competitor for us, does not have anything, no info in manuals for certification, no labels and from the photos I saw, uses the motors, which have been long banned in Europe for very poor efficiency and pretty much being a fire hazard. I might be overthinking here!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2022, 03:31:21 pm
content: Quote from: V_King on February 28, 2022, 10:19:25 amFor that matter there are 30A and even 50A sockets for 120V, but they're for special purposes and you can't rely on finding them if you are making a device designed to be plugged in 'wherever'. You certainly can't rely on finding a workable 20A socket already existing.If you are going to sell a product which will require any specialized socket, you may as well simply stick with 240VAC. In many jurisdictions if the product is installed permanently they will require that it be wired in with conduit--no cord or socket--anyway. In all the other cases, if you can't use a standard 15A circuit, an electrician will be needed to install something so why not simply have them install a 240A circuit?