ESD Workshop Setup - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Eigerdesign
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2014, 12:39:17 pm
content: Dear ForumI am looking to setup a final assembley line that has to be ESD for obvious reasons.Looking at dedicated ESD funiture my heart started to flutter at the price I would have to pay... how can we do this cheaper?We have an antistatic floor hence I was wondering if wood (100% real wood - this is Switzerland!) desks would be suitable as I could get my local Carpenter to do this at a significantly lower price plus made to measure.Is wood ok, good, bad, total nightmere in an esd environment? We would place the top with ESD mats (much like Sir David) but I am not sure if this solves all the issues (if there are any) that wood may cause.I welcome any feedback.Swiss Tony

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2014, 05:12:10 pm
content: If you are going to use an antistatic mat, wood shouldn't be an issue as long as you connect your mat(s) properly to mains earth. My workbench top is MDf and I have no issues, using an antistatic mat on top of it. I'm guessing that the ESD safe work tops are there so you don't have to use an antistatic mat and have the disposable income. Depending on the size of your workbench and how much of it you will cover with antistatic mat, it is far cheaper to use the wood top and mat compared to the ESD top. For me, the 4' x 8', 3/4" sheet of MDF and the 24" x 36" mat were less than $90 USD, including the bits to connect to mains earth. As always, YMMV.American Tom

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2014, 05:23:23 pm
content: Here's a .pdf from 3M that might help (How To Install an ESD Workstation).Wood will be fine for the table top (or MDF covered in formica/melamine found on standard office furniture for example).As you have an anti-static floor, you should be able to skip on the floor mat & ankle strap, and just install an ESD mat (table surface) and a ground block for use with wrist straps (make sure it's/they're properly grounded).ESD monitor might be a good idea to verify that the workstation is properly grounded (get one and periodically test each station with as a means to reduce immediate costs; others can be added later to allow for continuous monitoring per station as budgets allow).

author: Eigerdesign
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 11:04:52 am
content: Thanks American Tom and NanofrogThis is great... we would use fresh pine for the surrounding mountains... don't ever say the words MDF or Formica/melamine in Switzerland or they will have you shot by Heidi.We would 100% cover the areas with ESD matting much like what Sir David has in his lab... I can buy 20m of this stuff for the price of one of these 'official' ESD desks. The ESD flooring in the office we are buying has a scary 80K to 120K resistance to ground... it was once used to construct bomb fuses I believe... bit scary so we will need to be careful when handling mains (very rare!).My worry was if all areas like desk legs and other exposed area should officially be antistatic but I am assuming as the floor is antistatic and all engineers would be wearing ESD shoes this should not be an issue. I will be dealing with customers from large international companies (like Cisco) and want to make sure they do not have an issue with the setup on visits.I was looking if you could buy ESD paints to paint the wood but cannot find anything yet (not that I have looked so hard).Many ThanksSwiss TonyPs... See pictures for lovely Green antistactic floor... yuck!

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 01:00:40 pm
content: "My worry was if all areas like desk legs and other exposed area should officially be antistatic but I am assuming as the floor is antistatic and all engineers would be wearing ESD shoes this should not be an issue. I will be dealing with customers from large international companies (like Cisco) and want to make sure they do not have an issue with the setup on visits."If you look at ESD workbenches from companies like Global Industries, the legs are metal not wood and there is no issues with them. You are going to completely cover the bench top with the ESD mat. I assume you will have multiple connect points for wrist straps if the workbench is big enough. Just make sure that the mat is properly connected to mains earth. If it makes you feel more comfortable use ankle straps also. I understand that you will be dealing with high profile customers, but don't overthink it. By the way, if I whisper quarter sawn pine in Heidi's ear, would she treat me to a great foaming schooner of bier?

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 03:04:27 pm
content: this reminds me: does anyone have any pointers for affordable (home lab) esd 'continuous monitors' ?I have my mat setup and wrist grounding junction box but I have no way to verify that things are functional. the little led boxes seem useful but new ones are expensive.I wonder if this can be DIY'd? how hard can it be?or, if its better to buy, is there any wear and tear on used gear that would make buying used esd monitors not such a good idea?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 04:21:57 pm
content: Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 11:04:52 amOoo... Is she pretty?Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 11:04:52 am2 layer ESD mat is relatively inexpensive when compared to workstations that have ESD compliant tops (i.e.Athlon, which is extremely nice, and has a price tag to match). There are less expensive table tops to be had, but YMMV (may/may not have suitable heat, abrasion, and chemical resistance).Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 11:04:52 amUnless you need cleanroom standards, this seems overkill IMHO.The antistatic shoes could be a nice touch, but again, so long as the user has a good ground connection through the wrist strap (no intermittent contacts, such as via wrist strap's snap connector or banana plug; this is where an ESD monitor is useful), you should be good to go regarding the operator. Between the wrist strap and mat ground connections, you should be sufficiently covered based on your description (assumes your clients won't demand more stringent ESD requirements, and if they do, your company will need to get them to pay for it).Quote from: linux-works on March 28, 2014, 03:04:27 pmNew... (most expensive linked is still under $200).Single wire(this one covers mat & wrist strap; not all do, so check carefully before buying)Dual wire(covers mat, wrist strap, and either an ankle/heel strap or tool)BTW, these devices are NIST calibrated (basic; traceable can be had at additional expense of course).Personally, I'm fine with used for a hobbyist, so long as it's working (certainly better than nothing). Much cheaper (say ~$40 max, shipped), and I suspect about the same as what you'd be able to build one for (once you add a wall wart for power and an enclosure).

author: Eigerdesign
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 05:06:26 pm
content: Thanks...Yes I am likely over cooking this issue like nanofrog stated; when you go to these large clients they obviously have the "dogs nut" equipment as they have very large wallets.I think I will go this wooden route as I can have a real custom fitted solution at a faction of the price of the official ESD benches.I was just a bit paranoid given that I am far from a specialist in this area but I can’t help wondering how good wood is in a ESD controlled enviroment… can it generate static if you rub up against it? What are its resistive properties?I wonder if Sir David (I call him that as he should be knighted for his service to electronic blogs!) could do some testing on his setup… he always seems to be able to get his hands on the right equipment. Blog… Cheap ESD setup!GreyWoolfe/nanofrog : As for young Heidi you will have to come to Switzerland to find out, but please leave that MDF stuff behind and bring your Lederhosen instead… her pig tails are waiting!Swiss Tony

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2014, 05:51:30 pm
content: Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 05:06:26 pmDon't forget genuine need for the particular application.Footwear and ankle/heel straps would be used in situations where the operator is walking between different stations. But for someone who will be sitting at a bench and can plug in a wrist strap, it's not genuinely necessary as a general rule.Take a look at the following links for more in depth information.The Prevention and Control of Electrostatic Discharge (ESD), AN-40-005[direct .pdf link]ESD FAQ(ESD Products)Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 05:06:26 pmI don't blame you.I'm in the middle of finishing up a couple out of metal for the same reason for home (did "borrow" some ideas though). Went with MDF type table tops as they're more widely available than making one from real wood, and it was less expensive (got them used for cheap). Smooth surface, and covered with 2 layer rubber ESD mats (30"x60"), so they'll do what I need.Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 05:06:26 pmIf it's finished wood, it can IIRC. Humidity is a big factor as well in terms of voltage generated (still generates ESD in high humidity <65 - 90% RH>, but at much lower levels than say 10 - 20% RH).But so long as the operator is properly grounded, it has a path to dissipate that charge, so I don't see it as an issue given your description thus far.Quote from: Eigerdesign on March 28, 2014, 05:06:26 pmPerhaps some day....And No, I wouldn't bring any MDF, as the freight charges from an airline wouldn't be pleasant at all (i.e. bleeding wallet left for dead).

author: GiskardReventlov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 05:12:43 pm
content: I read your thread a while ago and came across this product. Don't know much about it and don't know the price.The description sounds interesting.http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/protective-coatings/emi-rfi-shielding/total-ground-carbon-conductive-coating-838/

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 06:03:11 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on March 28, 2014, 03:04:27 pmupdating: bought a desco brand continuous monitor, new in a bag for about $30. it has a base station (with leds) and a pair of remote ground blocks (bananas). also comes with a snap and stud for going to the mat.if the connection to the mat goes away, the alarm sounds and the led goes red. if I unsnap my single wire wrist strap, a different led goes red and the alarm sounds. this is with the ebay 'canada' 2 layer mats. I have 2 snaps on the mat (one that came with it and one that I added) and you tie one to ground and the other to the monitor. the monitor also is where you plug your wrist cord into.it seems to work. maybe a bit more formal than home labs are used to, but for $30 I could not complain. now, if I'm not wearing the strap, it yells at me. maybe it will force me to wear it whenever I work. or maybe I'll end up wiring in a power switch....

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 06:27:25 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on April 06, 2014, 06:03:11 pmNice.Where'd you find a new one for that?

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 06:32:14 pm
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261428632211it normally is not that cheap, but this one was a dealI tried another one (for a dollar!) but it does not work and I have not yet opened it to see why.there are a lot of 3M brand units that use 2 wires for sensing. you need expensive wrist straps and cords and sensors but it looks like a nice design concept. I found a few of those as mostly full kits for $50. the straps are sold at jameco ($15 for a close-out, I think) and that's all that is usually missing.I would pay $50 or so for a home anti-stat monitor. I'm not sure I'd be happy to pay much more, though.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 07:08:17 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on April 06, 2014, 06:32:14 pmThanks.FWIW, I already have a Desco ground block and wrist strap (metal w/ magnetic cord/snap connector), and it's good stuff. I'd like to add a monitor as well, and will eventually pick one up. Like you though, I don't want to spend a fortune, and the $30 mark is where I'd like to come out as well (don't mind used).Hoping that my existing wrist strap and ground block (have others from China), will help keep the price at/near my target, as I only need the monitor and a wall wart for power in working order.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2014, 08:45:26 pm
content: I bought this (even though I don't need it now):http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002DGSWE/a simple and safe way to get a ground wire. I like the plastic plugs, as there's zero chance of any leakage current getting thru. just there to keep the plug in and stop it from twisting around. for $10 on amazon, it was worth it for a clean solution. when I needed the mat and outlet for wrist strap grounded, I was using this. cut off that rod-like thing and put a proper spade or banana on there and bob's your great grandfather