Benchtop wave soldering machine..anyone using one? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: royco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 07:46:56 am
content: Im considering one of these machines for low volume boards as hand soldering through hole parts for 20+ proto or custom boards is getting tedious. I was initially looking at solder pots/fountains with attached rails or Wenesco's systems with pre-heater and foam fluxer but was a bit shocked they are asking close to 10K for the whole system.I found 2 machines that are so called benchtop models, it has pre-heaters and flux applicators . One is made by Beijing Torch ( Model TB680) and the other by Beijing Glichn ( Model LF230A). Both are around $3800.Anybody here used these "benchtop models"? Are there any other alternatives? Selective soldering machine would have been perfect but they are really expensive. Dip soldering machines looks like a good alternative too.Thanks

author: PigSpark
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 09:00:51 am
content: Hi roycoNot familiar with the brand but I have experience of working with small wave solder machines and they have a narrow operating window.The big problem with these desktop machines is pre-heat time, if the PCB hits the wave with liquid flux present it boils and spits and leads/vias won't get soldered, so you have to slow the conveyor system down to allow the solvent in the flux to evaporate and pre-heat the PCBIf the PCB goes through the solder wave too slow the flux is then washed off and you get solder bridging, double edged sword here.Are all your PCB's the same size and layout or do they vary? If they do you have to tweak the settings to fit the PCB profile into the operating window.Get a demo before you buy!

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 09:07:44 pm
content: Desktop wave solder, didn't even know such a thing existed. Let us know if you do get one, would be interested in how it performs.

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 09:17:15 pm
content: So, uh, this only works out for surface mount if you glue down the SMD devices?It seems kind of like a step backward unless one is doing things that actually are better for manufacturing in through hole.I mean, if you're trying to automate, isn't solder paste stencil, and professional grade reflow soldering the way to go?

author: elecman14
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 15, 2016, 09:51:31 pm
content: I agree with mmagin if this is SMT you really should look at stencils and a convection oven. Having worked with full sized wave solder machines (showing my age O0) I would be skeptical of a desktop sized device. Also the wave solder glue for SMT is not fun to deal with. You can apply it similar to solder paste with a stencil but it is a pain to keep the stencil clean.If you choose to wave or dip solder you really should make sure to control how your PCB's are stored. Dipping and also wave soldering ramp the PCB rather quickly from room temp to liquidous solder temperatures. If moisture is in the PCBs it could cause delamination.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 01:46:36 am
content: Just read the post, he said it was for through hole!

author: royco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 16, 2016, 05:41:07 am
content: Yes its for through hole parts, I have a small pick and place for smt parts. My boards have a lot of header pins and even tried the pin-in-hole technique of soldering some TH parts on a reflow oven and it didnt come out that good.I see Madell has a bench model as well but almost twice the price. (TWS-100)

author: D3f1ant
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2016, 08:40:37 pm
content: There is no getting away from through hole parts completely unfortunately, particularly connectors.We found surface tension holds small res/caps in place quite nicely when resorting to having components on both sides. But when you have rows of pin headers to solder on, a small (low cost) wave machine would be extremely useful.

author: royco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 18, 2016, 06:19:21 pm
content: Quote from: D3f1ant on April 17, 2016, 08:40:37 pmSo very true. SMT is now quick and some what automated and though hole parts should be the same ( more or less). I will be doing more research, will be looking for something in the US before taking the plunge.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 07:05:50 am
content: IDK, but it seems to me the most time-consuming part of thru hole assembly is usually placing all the parts? Or do you have a PNP robot that can do thru hole?Here's what I have learned from doing batch thru-hole:I will try to make my pcb's so that they will hold the pieces upside down.I will try to make sure anything like a 4 pin switch with 2 pairs of redundant leads has those redundant pins connected on the pcb, so that only the opposing corners have to be soldered without paying too much attention.If doing a lot of them, you can build a jig to hold the pcb's by the edge. A piece of plywood for the base, then some strips of wood or plastic can easily be grooved with a router to hold the edges of the board. Then you can screw these to the base. Now you can stick a bunch of pcb's in the jig at a time. Now you can place the parts in, like playing with a Lite Bright, while sitting in front of the tele.When done, flip the boards in the jig and you have a lot of boards ready to solder.Fix your solder reel/feed down in a convenient location, so it won't slide around. If you have a place to affix/hang it overhead, that is ideal.Once you get a batch of boards all ready to go, use the biggest hoof tip and crank the temp unreasonably hot (unreasonable for "regular soldering"). If ever you wondered about using a fume extractor, this is the time to get one. Go to town. Turn down the heat.Compared to the time of putting all the components in, the soldering is the cake walk.

author: royco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 08:57:49 am
content: We do something similar and it speeds it up a bit but its still the slowest part of the process. That large chisel tip does wonders but still doing even 30 boards with 50+ solder points is tedious.Ive been trying the pin-in-paste technique again and getting better results. Ordered some proto boards with new stencil that will use this procedure.

author: l0wside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 09:08:24 am
content: Can you tell a bit more about how you do the pin-in-paste? I know that it exists, but this is about where my knowledge ends. Some pictures or a video would be great.Max

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 12:39:40 pm
content: I want to know about it too. I know it can be tricky as it requires accurate tuning of hole sizes, angle of the squeegee, pressure etc, to ensure proper amount of the paste going into the hole.Once I fine tune my basic SMT, I want to try the PIP.

author: elecman14
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2016, 01:20:32 pm
content: In my experience with pin in paste having a clean repeatable insertion is pretty critical. I would recommend a robot or some sort of centering jig. Even though I have never done a formal study, I have observed that if the paste shape around the pad gets changed it can lead to poor barrel fill.This datasheet does a really good job explaining hole size and paste volume:http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics_technical/application_notes/fuses/littelfuse_pin_in_paste_application_note.pdf

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2018, 10:40:32 am
content: I'm thinking about ordering this Torch desktop wave solder unit:Anyone have experience or comments?

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 05:14:07 am
content: I went with DDM Novastar Spartan 12D wave solder machine. China products scare me in production enviornments.Just debating if its better to use adhesive on my DEK then picknplace then reflow/cure then place thru hole then AOI then wave solder on pallets to protect SMD. Anyone want to give advise on process?

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:03:00 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on April 21, 2016, 01:47:42 pmThis unit seem more complicated to learn than anything else..However, I am still a novice at his stuff and have never tried batch soldering.KL27X post #9 Seems to be really good.Now this is just some ideas. those more experienced will be better able to comment on these ideas.1st, using a toaster oven reflow unit would cost less. There are pizza size units which when converted would allow you to reflow large batches of PCB's2nd, a lot of people built those DIY units and many have admitted they just do not use them. even their oven is too small, I am sure someone would be glad to send you the programming unit they made cheap..That project became a kind of craze..I have 3 toaster ovens, but never got around to building the programming unit.3rd, Mikeselectricstuff has a video on how he built and uses a DIY device that uses a kind of SMD paste solder injector and a foot switch connected to a compressor so just just places the tip of a pad. pressed his foot and bam the solder is there. he demonstrated how quickly he could use this DIY jig..I think you could adjust the amount of solder for the thr0ough hole.4th, regarding KL27X suggestions, before I read it. I was thinking a brick or ceramic slate that can take the heat, maybe use a Dremel tool to cut the grooves as KL27X described (my thought...Pizza brick in the DIY Toaster reflow oven)Lastly, I have seen these "solder pots" that I guess you fill with solder and, do you just dipthe the underside of the through hole into is..Hot solder wicks up, I don't know about this but I have always wondered what those solder pots are for.It seems to me with the number of boards, and the number of components, no matter what there will some trial and error. Maybe getting one of those solder wave machines are worth it and do not cost that much.These are just some suggestions, take what may work,or maybe they will give some ideas of other ways to do your project.Cheers!