Fire at The Geek Group makerspace - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: threebuddies
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:36:29 am
content: This is to let the guys on the EEVblog know that there was a fire in the High Voltage Lab at The Geek Group. There were no injuries and everyone is safe but the rest of the lab is covered in soot. Because of this The Geek Group is asking for volunteers to stop by and help with the clean up process. If you are available to help they need people for to go to 902 Leonard Street NW Grand Rapids MI tomorrow (Jan 3rd 2014) around noon. For those who want to see the damage done to the High Voltage labhttp://imgur.com/a/VptiHTo be more specific the sparkgap and capacitor bank for Gemini (The worlds most powerful Tesla coil) are completely destroyed and can be seen in the seventh picture. Also damaged is the impulse generator named Thumper that was right next to the fire and has an entire server rack full of high voltage capacitors.As with the rest of the building, every part of the lab is covered in soot including the CNC machine shop, the electronics lab, the computer lab, the Audio/Video department, the high energy physics lab, the laser lab, and the robotics lab.For those who cannot make it and want to help, The Geek Group is holding an emergency fundraiser to buy materials for the clean up such as paper towels and Windex. You can find the donation link in the topic of the IRC.http://thegeekgroup.org/live/As mentioned before every part of the lab is covered by soot and also smells like burning plastic, whether you make it to the lab or give a dollar or two it will help greatly either way.UPDATE: Chris uploaded photos of the aftermath to Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBoden/media_set?set=a.10202619409023943.1073741827.1158854557&type=1Sorry if this kind of post is not allowed(one asking for help), I am sure a mod will let me know if it not.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 08:15:32 am
content: Any idea what caused it (and what fueled it)?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 09:59:59 am
content: Quote from: threebuddies on January 03, 2014, 07:36:29 amNot the new CNC machinesAt least they have covers over the critical stuff inside

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 10:03:34 am
content: Lots of soot in the electronics lab - not a good thing

author: rexxar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 05:17:50 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 03, 2014, 08:15:32 amSomeone else reported that it was an overheated motor. I guess a project someone left running overnight?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 05:29:57 pm
content: Quote from: rexxar on January 03, 2014, 05:17:50 pmThat's exactly why our workshops all have a big off button by the exit that powers down all the benches!

author: dacrawf
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 06:24:18 pm
content: The Geek Group is still working to understand the root cause. As I understand it, the fire started in the back room of the HVL (High Voltage Lab) where the synchronous spark gap and capacitor array for project Gemini (Tesla coil) were located. The equipment was not running when the fire started, but was recently used, and this area of the lab was not occupied by any people. Watch the Captain's Blog or join the IRC for more details.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 06:58:51 pm
content: Well, that didn't work out too well:http://thegeekgroup.org/sponsors/bl-harroun-fire-protection/Quote

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:00:39 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 03, 2014, 08:15:32 amA rotary spark gap and a whole lot of acrylic. And some aluminium, by the look of it, because the MMC's frame appears to have mostly disappeared.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:14:22 pm
content: Could be dielectric absorption in the capacitor bank that caused a build up of charge that eventually arced over and caused the acrylic to burn. High voltage capacitors are rather notorious for that.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:15:46 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 03, 2014, 07:14:22 pmI'm sure they had bleed resistors on that bank, but I could be wrong. They also had an open, tungstun electrode rotary spark gap next to it..

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:20:29 pm
content: it could be arson that place is in the hood i believe

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 07:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: SArepairman on January 03, 2014, 07:20:29 pmI strongly doubt it was arson.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:51:19 pm
content: Yeah, more likely someone 'was' in the lab when they shouldn't have been vs arson.Or someone forgot to switch something to its safe mode when they left.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on January 03, 2014, 11:51:19 pmNone of the above.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2014, 11:57:24 pm
content: Yeah, i agree. I just meant that was more likely than arson

author: SparkyProjects
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 04, 2014, 11:01:37 pm
content: Cause of the fire was with the rotary spark gap, it seems to have thrown something hot onto the 1000 capacitor MMC array which was next to it, this video has the analysis of the RSGfrom about 11:10

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 06:21:47 am
content: Wow, it's surprising to see that much damage caused from the fire, and how easily capacitors could ignite.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 07:18:59 am
content: There's little that wont burn when hit by a piece of molten tungsten at 3422 °C

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:50:50 am
content: What I wonder is just why did that lab have no fire protection? I wouldn't work in a lab without it.This room I am in right now has 2 sprinkler heads covering the whole room, they are above and slightly behind me, and thus cover the lab bench quite well.Any fire here would be put out quickly, and this is my home. The problem with sprinkler heads is not false triggers, that never happens like in the movies, but the extensive water damage because they don't turn off once the fire is out. However, that's a small price to pay for saving your life and your lab from even worse fire damage.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 08:58:38 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on January 05, 2014, 08:50:50 amApparently having a fire protection company as a sponsorhttp://thegeekgroup.org/sponsors/bl-harroun-fire-protection/and writing a PR text about how they helped you isn't enough fire protection.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 09:01:42 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on January 05, 2014, 08:50:50 amApartment by chance?Don't have such a system in my house, so I keep a fire extinguisher next to the bench, just in case.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 09:07:50 am
content: I don't suppose standard smoke detectors would do any good. They would probably go off every time they put on a show. I wonder how you would deal with the problem? They at least had it isolated in another room, I guess that is a valid method for any electrical fire. Just make sure that it's far enough away not to ruin the place. Technically I guess this was not an electrical fire but more like a capacitor storage area packed in plastic boxes catching.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 10:45:42 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on January 05, 2014, 08:58:38 amIt wasn't finished being installed.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 12:31:46 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on January 05, 2014, 07:18:59 amAnythingflammable, that is... but after watching the video, something about the cause still doesn't seem quite right to me; according to them the capacitor bank was encased in an aluminium server rack, and aluminium doesn't burn - it melts. The spark gap would've been running when it threw the electrode and unless it was run unattended, wouldn't someone at least have noticed that, if not the loss of functionality?

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:43:40 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on January 05, 2014, 09:01:42 amYes, I am in a condominium now, but even my previous house (built in 2001) had a full house sprinkler system and a fire pump to feed it from the well. My childhood house (which was built in the late 50's) did not have any such thing, so it's a recent requirement but one that I firmly agree with.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 04:57:44 pm
content: Aluminium alloys however do burn quite well, and you very rarely get plain aluminium, most is alloyed either with a little silicon, a little magnesium or other metals to improve properties. Aluminium aircraft do burn very well once you get the fire started.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:10:21 pm
content: Is that an engineer's exasperated sigh at a massive sensationalist oversimplification I hear @14:11 ?Juststart at 13:50 and wait for it.

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 05:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 05, 2014, 12:31:46 pmAlso, why is it that they are investigating the cause of the fire themselves? I would think the law requires that the fire marshall be investigating, not the tenants...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 07:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 05, 2014, 12:31:46 pmNo, the MMC was not encased. That's the impulse generator. The MMC was an open framework of aluminium with the capacitors mounted on acrylic sheet.If you think you'd notice the collision while the coil was firing.. well, it's a 200kVA coil. It's quite audible on the other side of the building.Quote from: mrflibble on January 05, 2014, 05:10:21 pmNo, I think that's related to the fact that he built that system and it all burned down over one loose screw.Quote from: codeboy2k on January 05, 2014, 05:48:58 pmI would think that you should check into actual laws rather than speculate (no, I don't know either).

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 07:35:58 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 05, 2014, 07:32:08 pmMmmh, good point. Maybe I was just projecting mywhen I was listening to that explanation.

author: SparkyProjects
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2014, 07:38:48 pm
content: Actually, they did have fire protection in the HVAC system which worked perfectly to shut it down, there iis a fire alarm system at the lab which is in the process of being installed, but this is being done volutarily by the alarm company, i'll let this vid explain the restAs for detail on how it happened, check here

author: pomonabill221
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2014, 01:44:22 am
content: Frankly, I can't stand the guy (probably going to get flamed BIG TIME), but it is sad to see their complex get damaged.I can see a big lawsuit or something similar coming!That is sad to see!

author: milktoast
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 04:28:09 am
content: Quote from: pomonabill221 on January 06, 2014, 01:44:22 amSo, in doing a little reading about other Hackerspaces I ended up here, and saw a few threads where questions of Chris Boden's character were called into question. Since I'm from the Grand Rapids / Kalamazoo area, and have spent a decent amount of time volunteering at TGG and being around Boden I wanted to share what I know and what I've heard.Most of it is not pretty.Its off topic here, so I'll respond in full over here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/opinions-about-'the-geek-group'-on-youtube/