Looking for PCB Fabs not in Mainland China - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2019, 07:03:34 pm
content: Does anyone have recommendations for PCB fabs not located in mainland china that can at least come close in terms of price / delivery time for orders to the USA?I am mostly interested in 4L PCBs, no special requirements. I know about and have used OSHPark and 4pcb but they are some combination of slow and expensive. For bigger boards in prototyping quantities it can be a 10x price differential. If I could get that down to 5x or less that would be great.Surely there must be some decent fabs willing to do prototype quantities in other parts of Asia or Eastern Europe. I was curious if people have heard about anything.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 03:07:49 am
content: I sometimes useeipcb.rsas well ashitech.com.mkhitech.com.mk are a bit dearer but can make much more complex boards.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2019, 03:15:24 pm
content: Accutrace/pcb4u is Taiwan backend, US based.I'm not sure of others in the US that are also cheap. Most are full-service, like 4pcb.Tim

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2019, 03:25:23 am
content: It's a shame - and a little ironic - that Taiwanese PCB manufacturers are not set up for e-commerce the way so many Chinese manufacturers are. The Taiwanese sites are often in Chinese instead of English, and they don't have online quote forms and online ordering.I mean, ordering from the Chinese companies is just so easy - enter your specs, upload your Gerbers, pay with your CC or PayPal, then sit back and wait for the boards to arrive. I'd love to see some Taiwanese manufacturers do that too.- Bob

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 12:24:02 pm
content: hmm.. if you need anything from Taiwan I might have a look. If you can give me the specs or some sample PCB I might try to get a quote from our pcb manufacturer in Taiwan (yes they only speak chinese...)

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2019, 02:46:08 pm
content: I don't know about the original poster, but I don't "need" something from Taiwan. But if Taiwanese companies were to market to US and European customers (i.e. have English websites, have online ordering forms) I would consider them next time I'm buying PCBs.As the person who runs PCBShopper.com, I would love to add Taiwanese manufacturer(s) to my price comparison calculator!- Bob

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 12:51:32 am
content: Bob,I like your website I just wish there was someone competitive to jlcpcb on there. How does JLCPCB undercut everybody?

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:05:30 am
content: Thanks Reckless. I would add any manufacturer that could offer prices as low as JLCPCB. I just don't know of any.- Bob

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:30:12 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 01:09:00 amParasitic??! I think it would qualify as symbiotic.- Bob

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:44:11 am
content: Thanks for the recommendations everyone. pcb4u in particular looks promising, I will have to try them out for one of my next PCBs.Given the large price differential it might just be more effective from an ethics standpoint to keep ordering PCBs from JLC and then donate the price differential to some cause (HK protests, support for those interned in Xinjiang) to help ameliorate the impacts of economically supporting an authoritarian and abusive regime.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 02:43:26 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:28:13 amSeriously Blueskull, do I have to ban you to send the message?I have repeatedly asked you to stop talking about Chinese politics etc, yet you continue to do it. Stop it, last warning.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 03:01:15 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:52:51 amBlueskull won't be bothering us for a few days.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:10:14 am
content: 祈祷谁不应该生气I hope it hasn't lost too much in the translation

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:42:19 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on November 18, 2019, 12:51:32 amLikely a combination of efficiency in process and income from production stuff.I'm yet to be convinced that any of these low cost fabs actually make a decent profit from just their prototype services. PCB's are the height of the "race to the bottom".

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:50:06 am
content: I run production level quantities with them because I cant find anything cheaper. Ive gotten used to these rate calculators rather than individually requesting quotes from each company thanks to bobs website.If they have automated I wonder why we cant automate in the US. When will 3D printed circuit boards become a thing?

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 05:11:02 am
content: To be fair it was Weston who dragged politics into an otherwise neutral thread.QuoteI can sympathize with not relying on a single country for your PCB supplies and needing to diversify, but the above is just

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 05:19:14 am
content: Hey Reckless,I use Venture, I think Venture a joint venture business with an American company.We have compared prices with a bunch of other sources ( we get a few offers a day from various suppliers) and Venture have been very good to us.It may be that our sales contact gives us a better deal but then we have been with them for a dozen or so years.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:05:50 am
content: There is a fab in Korea ,it sometimes pops up on pcbshopper as you do quote search. Not that cheap as fabs in China but cheaper than the ones in Europe.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:25:43 am
content: Quote from: OwO on November 18, 2019, 05:11:02 amRoHS compliance excludes lead and other toxins in the supply chain. I like to think that spilled blood should also have no place in the supply chain. Similarly to how there is a phase in for RoHS it may not be practical to achieve immediately, but it is something that can be achieved eventually.Bob: I like PCBShopper, I have used it in the past. You should consider adding a country filter. It would be a useful feature and you already display the data in the results.Bud: I think I found what you are talking abouthttp://quickturnpcb.co.kr/. They have 4mil space/trace standard which is pretty nice.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:33:59 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on November 18, 2019, 05:19:14 amCan you pm sales contact? Id like to try reach out to them and reference you.

author: Reckless
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:36:34 am
content: [quote author=Weston link=topic=218386.msg2789736#msg2789736RoHS compliance excludes lead and other toxins in the supply chain. I like to think that spilled blood should also have no place in the supply chain. Similarly to how there is a phase in for RoHS it may not be practical to achieve immediately, but it is something that can be achieved eventually.I share your noble sentiment and will keep that in mind as I shop as well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 06:50:22 am
content: Quote from: Reckless on November 18, 2019, 04:50:06 amOne issue might be that many of the supplies are likely made in china, so it might be next to impossible to approach their price point even if wages were the same.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:06:53 am
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:42:13 am
content: Quote from: Weston on November 18, 2019, 06:25:43 amThe please refrain from being the pot that calls the kettle black !Dave just posted this:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/reminder-this-forum-is-a-not-a-free-for-all-free-speech-platform/

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:54:19 am
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 08:34:47 am
content: I am not going to let you goad me into getting banned like blueskull, I have some tesla coil projects I want to share that are not yet finished.I will end this by saying that I have been to both China and Hong Kong and have Chinese friends who have been adversely impacted by the policy choices and actions of the CCP, both recent and ongoing.Everyone, thank you for the fabrication house suggestions. About half my PCBs are not out of pocket and are less price sensitive so expect additional commentary about my experiences with some of these fabs in the coming months!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 08:39:52 am
content: You are in the US so I can't recommend. But we have European sources that are a bit more expensive but usually faster. A UK supplier (PCB train) will turn around in 10 days for a little more than PCB cart who will claim 8 days, spend 3 asking silly questions about the design and take 3 days in shipping which is more expensive so for work I tend to use the UK supplier as it's not my money and they are a bit quicker and easier to deal with.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 01:37:02 pm
content: Quote from: Weston on November 18, 2019, 06:25:43 amI dunno. There's only 24 or so manufacturers in the list and it's likely to stay about that size (more manufacturers would mean it takes longer to get all the prices, and it's more maintenance work for me - PCBShopper is just a one-man operation, done in my spare time). So if you care about the country you're ordering from, it's not that hard to scroll through the list.Moreover, some manufacturers based in North America and Europe use factories outside those regions. And they only use them for some orders, not for all orders. It gets really messy, and I can't guarantee that if you order from a US company (for example) that your boards will be made in the US.If you care about where your boards are made, you really need to talk to the manufacturer before placing your order.- Bob

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:52:31 pm
content: Quote from: Reckless on November 18, 2019, 12:51:32 amThat was a reckless question Reckless because its a political question!

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 07:05:51 pm
content: A fine example of market democracy at work....You are free to spend your money where you want to.Dont be so Reckless

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 09:37:11 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 18, 2019, 02:28:13 amNice of you to take advantage of our decadent University system to get your advanced degrees.(Apologies to all for continuing this but I felt this needed to be acknowledged.)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 10:58:41 pm
content: Quote from: Weston on November 14, 2019, 07:03:34 pmDon't they just get their panels made in China?New Zealand:http://www.circuitlabs.co.nz/

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:34:45 pm
content: Nope. OSHPark exclusively uses fabs in the USA and batches orders, rotating between a few depending on excess capacity. I think they still de-panelize the boards themselves, so that adds an extra few days. Great specs/quality and can be quick sometimes, but variance is really high due to the batching, which is pretty frustrating.Circuitlabs website does not work for me due to the use of Flash.

author: rea5245
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 11:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: Weston on November 18, 2019, 11:34:45 pmCircuit Labs uses pcbzone.net for processing its PCB orders. Try that.But yeah, Circuit Labs really needs to re-do their web page.- Bob

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 02:54:29 am
content: Bassman...Dont You worry about that.Same thing is hapening in Australia ... except we know education is a multi bilion dollar industry in Australia and providing education to foreign students is good for Australia.You see they dont take advantage os our great education system . Without the foreign students our system would collapse.Thank You the World for sending your Student down under.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:15:30 am
content: The negative undertones in this tread are atrocious and several members should be warned for such behavior.That the up and coming super power China should get such underhanded snide remarks is a good level lower than this forum need allow. Each and every country has substantial trade with China in both import and export goods and they are a part of our lives whether we like it or not.I'm saddened about blueskull's temporary ban when ongoing jibes about his motherland have him defend it passionately (and rightly) when the jibers themselves should be lobbying their own gubbermints for trade sanctions if they are so concerned rather than take shots at a well respected and liked member.That he and presumably his parents chose to seek a top class education and he gain a PHD is a testament to his resolve, hard work and intelligence. That it was in another country far from his home is a further great accomplishment.I ask you all if your motherland was continually negatively portrayed and put down, how would you react ? ?I respect his right to want free speech to reply but rightly political free speech needs be curtailed here and the only way this can happen is if we all play ball and keep our opinions of another country's affairs to ourselves.

author: EEEnthusiast
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 07:24:41 am
content: There is a company in India namedwww.pcbpower.com. They are reliable and make good quality boards. They have an online quote system . I'm not sure if they ship overseas for small volumes, but you could try that. I regularly use their service and never had a problem.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 10:13:40 am
content: tautech: No one aggravated Blueskull between his first comment to when he was banned. He has been a member for a long time and I feel like he should have a better understanding than me on the nuances of what is and what is not allowed. I have read many of his posts before registering an account and found many insightful as I also work in the field of power electronics. He seems like a contributing member and what happened is a shame.Based on the title and my first post, this thread is dedicated to finding PCB suppliers that are not located in Mainland China. Civil rights matter to me, be they related to real issues or those apparently currently being blown out of proportion by the media, but the answers that people provide should be no different than if it was just supply chain diversification. Based on other posts on this forum and people involved in this thread, supply chain diversification is a worthy topic. So far, I have gotten suggestions for some interesting fabs I would not have heard about otherwise if lowest cost was my only metric.If anyone has a suggestion for a most ethical PCB supplier based on criteria other than location I would be interested to hear it. PCB fabrication involves some pretty harmful chemicals, do any fabs give strong guarantees about their waste management practices? Do any try to compensate for environmental damage caused in other parts of the supply chain?EEEnthusiast: The PcbPower website is really slick. Based on my IP address it redirects me to a US version of the site which is associated with some US based fab. They don't have any price calculator and talk a lot about ITAR compliance which makes me feel like they are going to be really expensive, but I might submit some gerbers from my last project just to see.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 10:43:06 am
content: Quote from: Weston on November 19, 2019, 10:13:40 amBullshit! You cannot frame the question like that and say it is not political. If Human Rights is what you want to consider then we should discuss whether we should be buying American products because, you know, starting wars, invading countries, police killing people in the streets, and whole long list of issues we all know. You cannot frame the premise on your terms and not have it questioned. Do you want to discuss the Human Rights record of America so you can decide whether to buy American products? Or do you agree that America should be off the list of possible suppliers?Regarding Blueskull, I disagree with many of his views and I believe he is not the best to present his point of view and he could learn to be more diplomatic but the moderation is unfair to him. China bashing is allowed without limitation and his response is modded all the time. I present this thread as exhibit A. Just for the record I want to state my opinion that he is being treated unfairly.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:04:00 am
content: I am restraining myself from further enumerating the issues I have with the CCP due to the sensitive national pride of members of the forum and my respect for Dave, who runs the forum and makes videos I enjoy. In lieu of further mudslinging a look at any western newspaper published in the last few days should illustrate several reasons for my beliefs. Also, as I also said before in response to a similar and now removed post, the policies of the CCP have impacted those close to me on a personal level.I don't think that the moderators would appreciate debating about the relative merits of China under CCP rule vs western aligned countries, but if you do have any PCB fabs located in countries with fewer ethical dilemmas than either the United States or China please let them be known. I never said the fabs had to be in the United States, merely ship to it. Otherwise please direct any more flaming directly at my PM inbox and keep it off the thread, I rather it remain a place to discuss alternative PCB fabs.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:41:14 am
content: Quote from: soldar on November 19, 2019, 11:18:30 amAnd you are just continuing instead of reporting it. SHUT UP OR I WILL BAN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:54:52 am
content: Quote from: Simon on November 19, 2019, 11:41:14 amI shut up now. Bye.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 05:01:31 pm
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on November 19, 2019, 02:54:29 amAt risk of further pushing this thread out into LaLaLand ... I will state for the record that I think the barriers to immigration put in place by the current US administration are illegal, immoral and counter-productive.And when you say, "Without the foreign students our system would collapse" you are talking about the United States' higher-education system! The foreign students (or their sponsors) pay the full-freight cost of tuition, fees, books, room and board and everything else. Without them, tuition costs would increase even more than they already have.That Blueskull took his degree and went home is absolutely fine. I think the majority of foreign students attending university here do that. I mean, I can turn that around: I have an English friend who attended Cambridge and he has offered to put in a good word should my son choose to apply to that school. My son would likely return to the US afterwards, bringing that education home with him. There is nothing wrong with that.And I do hope that foreign students here, and American students overseas, will use their time to see how the people in the host countries actually live (and think), rather than relying on media reports.Now as to Weston's original question.I, too, would prefer to use US-based PCB manufacturers. There is an excellent fab house in my (southwest) city. I think they exist primarily to serve the local defense contractor, but they offer their services to anyone. The problem is that their NRE alone is more than the cost of my entire board order, including shipping, from Seeed. I would do OSHPark if their four-layer board costs weren't so high. So I can either not make anything at all, or I can go with the only options available. I already recognize that I am typing this message on a computer made in China.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:13:37 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 19, 2019, 05:01:31 pmGood to see the "old boys network" is still "hard at it". This is where i have the problem with formal education. It's not all about how good you are and the school you went to is still too important in a now hardly regulated "education industry" where you either get into the top or get served a load of rubbish.

author: jhpadjustable
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:35:19 pm
content: Weston, while I thorougly disagree with basing supply chain decisions on what paid rich liars are richly paid to tell you, Aisler.net might be worth a look, despite their lack of instant online quoting from specs. The design rules are pretty good and the prices don't seem too terrible, about half of OSH Park.Quote from: Simon on November 19, 2019, 06:13:37 pmI agree. How dare Bassman59 circumvent the Market Lord God! Why doesn't he just buy his son's way into the "middle" class by way of an athletic program at a top college, like everyone else in the USA?The first Internet gold rush wasn't all that long ago, when degree-holders were at some disadvantage in hiring due to cultural reasons and lack of practical experience. I devoutly wish for those days to come back around, which starts with removing their cultural hegemony from the workplace. Where are the Bob Widlars when we need them? Being wasted digging ditches, I imagine.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 06:40:46 pm
content: I don't disagree with the principle of a degree but unless they are all equal the system is worthless and descends into a "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" type ideas about where you degree came from. In the UK Education is privately run under the most minimal of scrutiny that gives rise to a varying quality of education which then actually justifies the snobbery about where your degree came from.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 08:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 19, 2019, 06:13:37 pmGiven that you don't know any of the people involved, perhaps you shouldn't say anything? You drew assumptions which are wholly uncalled for.Here in the US, applications for even the public state universities need to have "letters of recommendation," whether from family friends who know the applicant, former/current teachers and perhaps bosses at after school jobs. The friend I mentioned falls into that first category -- he is married to one of my oldest and dearest friends. There is nothing untoward about this. Regardless, consider that he'll likely get in on merit alone.Is the Cambridge education "better" than what he'd get at the local land-grant research university (this is a US term, look it up)? I dunno. (I could go on and on about the subject of our local state university.)I believe that a university education is what you make of it. I certainly made the most of being at a university in New Jersey which was a cheap subway ride away from New York City. (I would mention the name of the school but you've never heard of it.) So, yeah, instead of studying for exams (which I aced anyway) I went to see bands at CBGB and Irving Plaza and the Ritz. Also up the street from my dorm was the best small rock club on the US east coast. (You'd be amazed by the list of bands I saw there for five or six bucks a show.) In fact, this small club had a much larger impact on my life than the formal education.So if my kid gets the opportunity to experience a new city in another country, why deny him that? I seriously doubt that he'll come back to the desert changed into snobbish upper-class twit.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 09:02:17 pm
content: The fact that anyone needs any recommendation at all to get into university other than their grades is worrying in itself.....

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 09:25:12 pm
content: Aisler seems to be ~ an European OSHPark but way better pricing. Last time I visited the website it redirected me to a US version with pricing in USD and today it is not, so I am a bit confused what is going on. They seem to almost beat JLC for a 4L 100x200 mm pcb (60.01€ for three). They have good minimum specs, about as good as you are going to get for non-HDI PCBs (4mil trace/space, 0.2mm drill) but similar leadtime to OSHPark (10 days). If I can deal with the wait I might have to try them.You can argue that consideration of civil rights has no place in the supply chain or about the efficacy in a boycott but I am surprised at the willingness to deny the existence of mass internment camps in the Xinjiang region for which the international community has satellite imagery, leaked papers, and accompanying first person testimony. Perhaps we really do live in a post truth era.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 09:28:06 pm
content: No politics in that direction please.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 10:25:07 pm
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator EEVblog for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:Yes the moderator is correct in censoring my response. Even by my standards it did contain material too undeniable and provocative.MEA CULPA

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:11:35 pm
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on November 19, 2019, 02:54:29 amOh,thisappeared today, adding further confirmation to the assertions about how the US's insane immigration policies are directly affecting us.

author: jhpadjustable
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2019, 11:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on November 19, 2019, 11:11:35 pmUs, who? If nations would print money to provide and maintain public services instead of privatizing every public service and function for concentrated private profit, articles like that wouldn't appear outside ofThe Onion. It's downright pathological to think of public services as an "industry".

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 12:32:40 am
content: I went back to the uni in my forties ( about twenty year ago ) to add a few more letters behind my name.I was one of few round eyes in the group in general.The interesting point to note is while my tuition fees were approximately AUD800.-- per subject per semester the foreign students were paying three times as much as the local "kiddies".Back in the seventies, the first time around, there were no tuition fees only a AUD200.-- per year donation to student union.The moderator will have to forgive me for yet again straying off the original topic and following the rest of the supporters of eevblog site.

author: Spirit532
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 01:30:10 am
content: Aisler is a pretty good supplier. I've bought from them before, and I believe they now have two fabs - one in the US(contracted probably), and one somewhere in Europe(probably also contracted).Their ENIG boards are very nice, high tolerance, and far better quality than anything I've received from China(at a similar price), but thereisa cost premium.I also recommend using them if you don't want to deal with customs or sourcing of components. At the moment they only source through digikey, but getting a package in the mail containing the boards and every part you need to build your project right away is a nice thing if you live in a country(e.g. outside the EU trade zone, which is where I am) that has "interesting" import laws.Here's a prototype board I received from them just today.This was made just before they split the manufacturing into "high quality"(ENIG) with a 4-day lead time and "high speed"(HASL and lower spec) with 48h manufacturing times.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 03:01:23 am
content: I was talking to my PhD advisor today and he mentioned that the federal funding agencies are considering banning buying PCBs from China (or restricting it american suppliers?) for projects on federal grants. This is due to some combination of trade war adjacent issues and invoice / billing issues. PCBWay is already banned across the entire electrical engineering department at Stanford due to billing issues but that was a department level thing. It is nice to hear that there is the potential for my personal purchasing goals to also be federal policy!I can't make sense for the Aisler website. It seems that the american and european operation is rather separated and they do a bad job of delineating that. Not that I have created an account with a US shipping address half the pages are in euros and half are in USD and I can't get the system to generate quotes for 4 layer PCBs and the service tiers it talks about on the website do not show.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 03:38:19 am
content: A good thread with excellent information, which unfortunately became poisoned.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2019, 07:27:41 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on November 20, 2019, 03:38:19 amIf you want to find fabs in a certain country just google it! But the topic may have to be locked soon.

author: karpouzi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 03:01:15 amTo be fair, Weston has been politicizing this whole thread from the get-go without the slightest warning.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on November 19, 2019, 09:02:17 pmWhy are grades considered sacrosanct? Implement that policy and every private school everywhere will give top marks to more students than can be admitted.Grades (in high school) are relatively easy to game. Likewise, students with a 4.0 (or 5.0) uniformly are unlikely to create an interesting and vibrant student body.Standardized tests seem better than grades at predicting academic aptitude (due to standardization), but even there recommendations from teachers, counselors, and others can provide useful distinguishing content to use in selecting an admission class.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2019, 11:59:55 pm
content: I wonder what a Japanese high school student might have to say about gaming of marks.From personal experience on two continents, high schools aint highs chools.

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 02:29:18 am
content: People are really dedicated to derailing this thread. You must feel threatened by the idea of divesting and boycotting.Some Korean students in my research group have used this PCB fab in the past and apparently it is reasonably priced. The website is entirely in Korean though, so only the Korean students....https://www.hsdgt.com/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 07:43:15 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on November 24, 2019, 11:40:05 pmYes they do that, the whole system is bollocks. Education is a scam and yep it's about where you went not how well you did so if you can get in at a top university where you will learn more airs and graces than what you are studying you will get on better. The subject matter is totally irrelevant....

author: laseralex
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 11:31:15 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 18, 2019, 10:58:41 pmI second Dave's mention of Circuit Labs / PCB Zone in New Zealand. I absolutely LOVE them. Excellent quality, great prices on prototype-quantity boards (1-5 pieces), fast shipping, and great people.If I have board files to them by noon on Sunday I'll have completed boards in my hands in the USA by the end of day Tuesday. I've done perhaps a dozen jobs with them over the past 18 months and couldn't be happier.Their online price calculator is athttp://http://pcbzone.net/

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 08:30:04 pm
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: Weston
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 06:47:15 pm
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: emsnickw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2020, 01:29:57 am
content: From what I have seen anything not made in China is going to be more expensive than PCBs made in China. pcbshopper.com is a good resource and shows the country of the fab when you search.