german silver/nickel silver allergy? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 01:31:07 pm
content: Does anyone have a really strong allergic reaction to nickel silver?I was organizing my copper and stainless foils last night, and I stumbled upon a piece of nickel silver, or german silver, that is a useful solderable material that covers low frequencies, unlike copper. This was a old unfinished partially finished shield can that I stopped working on a decade ago. Anyway, I had to bend it a little and use a rolling pin on it to flatten it out for storage. Since then I moved onto just doing stainless shields, which I torch braze, rather then nickel silver (its expensive compared to the free stainless sheet rolls I found a while back... I am not keen on buying more nickel silver, but it is convenient since you can easily solder it).And today I have a rash on top of my finger, it looks like little bumps and its fairly itchy on top of the length of the finger. I put some ointment on it.I semi regularly handle both the copper and stainless foils without problem, but the nickel silver was untouched for a long time. It consists of zinc, copper and nickel. I suspect it because when I was sorting my materials nickel silver stood out as the odd ball material of the bunch. I think I rubbed my fingers on it when I was flattening out a bend with my knuckles before I got the rolling pin to sheet it.It just seems bizarre because i regularly use stainless steel and copper stuff without problems. Could it be a zinc metal allergy or some problem relating to the alloy? It feels a little bit like a bad itchy shave, but obviously I did not shave my fingers.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 01:43:04 pm
content: Probably something only an allergist can provide a deffinitive answer to by doing tests on you.Not sure if a blood test will show the cause of skin allergies.If it lasts a while and really bothers you my advise would be to see your general practitioner and ask for either a referral to an allergist or a blood test if possible.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 02:01:14 pm
content: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_allergy

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 04:23:29 pm
content: With stainless steel, the chromium (required) component forms a protective chromium oxide layer that probably shields you from the (optional) nickel content.I believe there is no such protective layer in "nickel silver" (non-silver-containing) alloys, if you have a nickel contact dermatitis.Another reference:https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/nickel-allergy/symptoms-causes/syc-20351529

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 04:49:16 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 09, 2022, 01:31:07 pmNickel allergies are the most common metal contact allergy. My mom has it, with the consequence that she cannot wear most costume jewelry, nor most watches, regardless of price. (She’s had a titanium wristwatch for decades, since even most gold watches have nickel-bearing stainless steel backs and screws).Since she’s getting up in age and has some balance issues, I want her to get an Apple Watch for the fall detection and James Bond watch phone capabilities, but we’re going to have to be very careful about which version and which band, due to the allergy.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 07:33:21 pm
content: I very much doubt that German/nickel silver (German: "Neusilber") will provoke an allergic reaction. It's also known as "hotel silver", as most hotels use such tea/coffee pots in their restaurants as well as other "silver" cutlery. (knives, forks, spoons).If it's a special shielding sheet, it may have a beryllium coating, which is nasty stuff. But then it would have to be 40+ years old.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 07:38:49 pm
content: Nickel is a well known allergen, so it's not surprising at all you have an allergy. Even minute amounts can cause a reaction in some people.

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 07:59:32 pm
content: Can you rub it in another small place of your hand/thighs and wait?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2022, 09:41:16 pm
content: Ehh I don't want to touch it. The part about the chromium oxide being absent makes sense, that is a durable ceramic coating. I only have a few square inches of the stuff anyway. Mainly just curious, it feels like its already subsiding. feels like I am gonna ruin a good day to itchyness if it does turn out to be the culptrit.. because I bearly had any contact with it and the rash covers my entire pointer finger top surface to the first joint (1x0.5 inches)But I also did have a thick sheet of pure nickel for electroplating and used nickel salts for electroplating and I don't think I noticed much of a reaction, but I usually am more careful with that since its metal salts and I wear gloves. I am pretty sure some of these RF connectors i handle regularly are nickel coated too (cheap ones maybe) and some crimps.... so I dunno, you would think pure nickel would make it show up too. Its just a weird localized rash that seemed to come up at the same time. I also regularly handle brass... and I also polish brass, stainless steel.. and this never happens. (lots of exposure to different metal polishing processes, at least compared to average joe). I am pretty sure I polished that pure nickel sheet after electroplating before with my bare hands and never had this happen on a buffing wheel. I am pretty serious about lung protection but not so much about hands (I use gojo soaps after), never wore rubber gloves for polishing, usually something gets under my finger nails that needs a scrub and I don't break out in blisters from that).The german silver sheet was bought in like 2010ish... and I also worked berylium copper sheet and round stock before (drilling), and it never gave me a problem. whatever happened almost reminds me of a nettle burn.Could there be something specific about the alloy that does something unique in the body? I also noticed what looks to be a tiny patch of rust on the german silver sheet, it was in a basement shelf for a long long time. I don't think I have a zinc allergy because i touch galvanized things very frequently (in fact probably the most frequently other then stainless steel kitchen things). And I think I have some die-case kitchen tools which have a high zinc content that never bugged me. I also use real silver kitchen utensils and I don't have a problem from that. Maybe its just the top surface of my hands that is allergic to nickel? Usually I never touch it there regardless of what I am doing... its a unique problem to have to straiten small pieces of metal, and I was doing this in the kitchen where I don't normally work since it was late at night that I decided to organize.. usually when I work in the shop I am diligent about washing my hands afterwards. .. I am not sure if I washed my hands before going to bed.. washed the sheets extra long and vacuumed the mattress and floor to make sure its all gone, if its a metal.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 04:59:12 am
content: Nickel and especially nickel salts are sensitizers. You develop an allergy as a result of repeated exposure.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 01:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on September 09, 2022, 07:33:21 pmThe English Wikipedia article about German silver even mentions nickel allergy in it…Regardless, nickel allergies generally require prolonged exposure (which, as the German wiki article about nickel points out, is difficult to define), not just brief contact, which is why nickel is theoretically banned in the EU for jewelry, etc.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 01:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 09, 2022, 09:41:16 pmIf you barely had any contact with it, then it’s likely not the cause. Nickel allergies generally manifest as reactions where the nickel has been in direct contact with skin for prolonged periods of time, like with jewelry or watches, and where sweat mobilizes the nickel. Brief contact just isn’t enough.The only way I could envision a nickel reaction here is if you did something that released it as a powder that stuck to the skin (the way metal dust gets really stuck to the skin, to the point it’s difficult to wash off, when sanding metals). Then it might have had enough time to react. But you didn’t mention any process that would have created metal dust.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 01:22:11 pm
content: The O.P. "noticed what looks to be a tiny patch of rust on the german silver sheet, it was in a basement shelf for a long long time", so there was obviously some surface oxidization, and was straightening out bends in the sheet, which would have disturbed the oxide layer, so its quite likely he came into contact with trace quantities of finely powdered nickel salts.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2022, 05:05:32 pm
content: you know I think I tracked down the real culpritIt looks like the new hot sauce I got has ghost peppers in it (bought this sauce a few days ago with a assortment of new never tried before spices/sauces/etc to try to cut down on eating out with new flavors). I made a bacon egg and cheese sandwich last night that had some of the ghost pepper sauce on it. Now I have the rash on both pointer fingers and thumbs, aka where the sauce smeared when I was eating the sandwich (i put ketchup and alot of the ghost pepper sauce on it)... and I think I got a small blister on the back of my tongue.It looks like this type of pepper is significantly hotter then what I normally buy, even if the sauce is edible. I think this is because I wiped and not washed my hands after eating it. Maybe its an allergy to the sauce, but it says the ghost pepper is 1million scoville units, while the habanero is 0.3million (normally I don't go past tobasco*).. I did not realize what I bought in the store. It was not really causing a problem during eating, but the day after.Again I find this confusing because IMO a sauce like tobasco habanero (not the normal tobasco, the habanero infused kind.. which I actually did not buy in a long while because its too hard to use other then literarly addding drops to sauce pot cooking, its not usable on sandwiches for me imo) tastes WAY spicier then this ghost pepper sauce, which is spicy, but it was nothing that made me consider it being potentially dangerous for my skin.... and I never had a problem with that, other then it being really spicy at the time of eating.*****(so I think its safe to maybe assume for now that its the god damn ghost peppers, unless of course, metal allergy caused an increase sensitivity to ghost peppers.

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2022, 03:38:11 pm
content: You are probably correct in that it was the ghost peppers.Nickel allergy usually requires a long time to cause a skin reaction, usually hours, not minutes.Whatever you do, when handling anything like ghost peppers or lesser peppers, WASH your hands BEFORE going to the bathroomNo doing this causes interesting dance moves with unsynchronous verbal responses.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2022, 02:47:31 am
content: nah it was the next day that this happened. I am still not certain, the onset of the allergic reaction was the next day. I still got itchy hands