Crimping Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 05:46:30 am
content: So, yeah, I'm evaluating a couple different crimping tools to handle Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510One is a non-ratcheting basic tool.One is a ratcheting, swappable die, adjustable pressure, tool.Which one do you think does the better job?Nope, not the ratcheting one.I don't know if it's me, or what, but the basic tool consistently works better and easier than the ratchet, half the time the ratchet tool makes a real mess of it, and it's never a one-shot crimp like it's supposed to be.I did make one modification to the basic tool, a rubber band around the handle to hold just enough pressure against the spring to keep the terminal in the jaws while inserting the wire,you do have to straighten the strain relief tongues in slightly to fit in the jaws before crimping, but apart from a quick extra squeeze with some needle nose to make sure it's done, it does a much easier and more reliable job.The die in the ratcheter is the correct one for the job, it's just not very good at it's job.To be fair, I also have a typical red/blue/yellow insulated terminal die for the ratcheter, and with those it does a pretty good job.So there you go, if you want to crimp Dupont, VH, XH, PH and KF2510, and don't know if you should buy a ratcheting or manual tool, I'd just get the manual one.The ratcheter pictured is a DN-28B, the manual is LS-202B, there are some other ratcheters that use the DN-28B die, namely DN,HS and L series (these are all made byhttp://www.lsdtools.com/) so I'd avoid any of those. I might pick up one of the SN-28B which people seem to more commonly use and see if it does any better than the DN, seems the die might be slightly different.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 07:22:20 am
content: I also thought that ratcheting worked best, but only struggled with it, have also some smaller of the normal type, but just struggles with that also.Then I bought this one:http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa01_04e.htmlafter reading some about it on the forum here, this one is actually good, later I found that they have an range of these, so I'm not sure which one of them is best for these type connectors (mostly dupont, and some that is used for JST battery, and RC batteries), but this one is very tight so it's easier to use than the loose one. (I have only two hands after all)Used this video to find out how to do it:

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 08:55:13 am
content: For small connectors, like Dupont and 2.54mm Molex etc, I bought a tool from Japan, it was hard to understand what they were saying but it is a good tool. I think it's this one herehttp://item.rakuten.co.jp/monju/800-pa-09/

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 12:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: akis on March 18, 2015, 08:55:13 amWas it cheaper to buy it from Japan, instead of your importer?http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimpingI bought my PA-01 from them instead of directly from Japan, because I did'nt find that it was saving me anything.Would be nice to see some good comparision between all the crimping options from Engineer to see which one would suit best for these small connectors.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 12:38:18 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on March 18, 2015, 05:46:30 amBut what did you expect from cheap Chinese tool. Even more expensive ones usually are crap. After being fed with crap crimping tools I just bought Knipex Multicrimp for bigger connectors. Huge difference regardless of that crimping dies and tool itself look similar to cheap crap. Completely different quality of crimps.Quote from: akis on March 18, 2015, 08:55:13 amIMO it's not very good. Crappily crimps many connectors, especially smallest, which is states to support. Crimps look OK, but they are weak and wire can be relatively easy pulled out. Also connector is often stuck in the tool and hard to pull it out.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 01:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on March 18, 2015, 12:08:31 pmI paid 3605 +shipping = 4025 yen. Todays prices like £22 but I cannot remember the exchange rate then. With 20% VAT (say I had to pay VAT, which I did not) it would be total 4850 yen == £28.On Amazon it is £28 today all inclusive but I believe it was much more expensive one year ago when I bought from Japan.On the site you suggested (http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping/engineer-pa-09-universal-mini-crimping-tool-for-molex-jst-amp-hirose-jae-etc) it is £42 !!!! And probably they will apply shipping and VAT on top.They make more than 100% profit. Crooks. Daylight robbery.In the UK most merhcants are crooks. Rip-off Britain, as you know. So much so that it is cheaper to buy abroad.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 01:32:23 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 18, 2015, 12:38:18 pmWell, yes. I have used a variety of small connectors, that I need my glasses and a lens to see properly, and after very careful consideration I can say that for each particular connector, and make and manufacturer, not all connectors are made the same, you also need a particular size of wire. If the wire is too thin the crimping will be weak/loose, if the wire is too large the connector will distort and be out of shape.So to make a good crimp you need:1) good quality tool. The right size slot, different for front and rear brackets on the same connector!2) good quality connectors - not all connectors are made equal3) ideal wire gauge to match the inner bracker, the one on the exposed strands. Ideal thickness and overall diameter of insulation to match the outer crimp/bracket.4) Dupont female connectors are better because they allow the exposed strands to be longer than normal and naturally sit under the spring of the connector, so that when mated the loaded spring presses down on the exposed strands making very good contact, so much so that the inner crimp becomes irrelevant. Most other connectors however rely on the inner crimp for electrical contact.5) Many times you rely on the rear bracket to provide mechanical strength, and on the front bracket to provide electrical contact, when you use wires thinner than ideal.So in this case, it is not the tool.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 01:35:43 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 18, 2015, 12:38:18 pmSo, what is an good tool then?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 02:05:57 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on March 18, 2015, 01:35:43 pmUniversal tool for small connectors? I don't know. I use a bit modified PA-09 so far. Don't need it often, so can live with it. There are good specialized crimping tools but they cost a kidney.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 02:18:41 pm
content: Quote from: akis on March 18, 2015, 01:32:23 pmIt's a tool in this case. One example. Genuine molex picoblade which is stated to be supported, 28 AWG wire, 1mm hole used. Crimp produced is loose. Only tool remains to blame. Regardless of crimp being loose, it is hard to remove connector as it is stuck in the tool. The same with some other types of supported connectors.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 02:44:52 pm
content: I have a different Engineer tool (I'll check the P/N) and I'm happy with it. I haven't had any issues with wires pulling out of crimp pins but it is a manual tool so some regulation of crimping force will need to be done. Crimps do sometimes stick in the die afterwards, I don't have trouble freeing them though.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2015, 02:54:31 pm
content: I have the PA-20

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 12:43:41 am
content: Quote from: neslekkim on March 18, 2015, 01:35:43 pmGiven your location, you might want to take a serious look atPressmaster(rebranded by Thomas&Betts, 3M, Wiha, and Xcelite for example). They offer a LOT of options, including a model that offers interchangeable dies (MCT). The MCT isn't perfect (i.e. no locators available), but it's cost effective vs. separate crimpers for each type of terminal you're using.Another alternative would beWezag(also get rebranded often; Panduit and Wiha for example).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 11:11:40 am
content: Quote from: neslekkim on March 18, 2015, 01:35:43 pmI'm using this one for XH connectors:www.ebay.com/itm/TU-190-08-XH2-54-PH2-0mm-DuPont-Terminal-KF2510-Crimping-Tool-Pliers-/291332638543It works excellent.When it comes to crimping you should stay away from the 'plier' model crimpers. It's not going to work; crimping is about making a so called cold weld where the wire strands fuse with the contact.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 11:50:25 am
content: The ratcheting version I have is this one:https://www.adafruit.com/products/1213that looks kinda similar, but I haven't managed to make good crimps.But, part of the problem is also to know how much insulation one need to remove, and where in the crimp to put the leads, would be nice with an proper guide there.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 11:56:16 am
content: You should look at the crimp pins manufacturer for that, but generally I strip enough just so that the inner crimp arms are pressed into the stripped end and the outer ones are gripped by the insulation only.Whenever I use a new crimp/connector I usually make a half dozen as throwaways to pull apart and look under a microscope, that usually works just fine.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 11:58:18 am
content: I only use it for hobby projects, so I buy Dupont crimps at ebay, I'm not sure if it's better quality on them if I buy them at Farnell, but maybe? (I don't fnd any at farnell either, my searchability on Farnell etc are very very bad)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2015, 04:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on March 19, 2015, 11:50:25 amYou only need to remove 2mm insulation. A crimp contact usually has 2 sections: one for the wire strands and one for the wire + insulation. The jaw of a good crimper has different heights for crimping the wire strands and the insulation. Unfortunately there is no such thing as a universal crimping tool. You need to buy a crimp tool which has been specifically designed for the contact you are crimping. So yes you can end up with half a dozen crimp tools for various contacts.

author: akis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 02:48:31 pm
content: That is actually very correct. I would add that the thickness of the insulation and the wires is very important. A very thin wire will slip out of the connector, and a thicker wire will not fit in properly. If using a tninner wire, I strip out double the length, and then fold the wire strands so that to obtain double the thickness and that gives it a good hold.A crimp tool with thin blades/teeth, allows you to crimp the exposed wire in one action and then, crimp the insulation in a separate action.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2015, 10:04:16 am
content: Just a bit of an update.I bought another ratcheting crimp tool, this time an "LS" series with an A03A die.http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LS-03A-hand-crimping-tool-for-crimping-open-barrel-terminals/330320_823302362.htmlAnd it works much much better for Dupont that the DN series I bought previously, and is basically single action crimping, although dressing with needle nose is still necessary at least for the thin wires I was using.

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 09:54:10 am
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 20, 2015, 10:04:16 amI also bought this tool LS-03A and let me tell you, this is completely garbage.This tool is not for Molex neither for dupont. It's only forFASTconnectors and is very bad even for those!It doesn't matter the size of the wire, the result is always the same crap. The crimping looks bad and wire gets loose very easily.It's much worse than crimping with a needle-nose pliers.The right tool from LSD brand for the crimps of the topic are the DN,HS or L series with the B28B dies.As I understand, the LSD brand is the worst of all. The quality of the dies that you get is very inconsistent.Many people say that the SN-28B is better.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2015, 10:10:53 am
content: Quote from: johnmx on October 12, 2015, 09:54:10 amRead post #1 in this very thread.Note that I am the poster of post #1, and to the post which you replied to.Observe that I first tried the 28B in a DN and found it not very good, in post #1Then I tried the LS with the A03A and found it much better than the 28B.Maybe you are correct that the die consistency is not good, as my experience appears to be the polar opposite to yours.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2015, 01:00:16 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on June 20, 2015, 10:04:16 amCould you maybe post some pictures of finished crimps of different sizes? I'm curious as to the result.I have an SN-28B I picked up on fleabay (looks absolutely identical to the Adafruit one) and it seems to work well for Dupont pins using the smallest die. I also picked up a fleabay HS-03B to do spade terminals with, but I'm not really so happy with the result. However, I'm not entirely convinced it's the tool's fault, as I don't think the cheap fleabay spade terminals are accurately made, either, so they kinda rotate in the die a few degrees before the crimp is finished. :/

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:06:25 pm
content: Recently I bought the Engineer PA-09 and the results are 100% perfect.This tool is magnificent for all types of compatible crimps.http://www.engineer.jp/en/products/pa09e.html

author: wblock
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2016, 08:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: johnmx on March 01, 2016, 08:06:25 pmEveryone seems to like those. I recently got the SN-28B crimpers, and have found them pretty much useless. The dies are too wide for JST connectors, making it pretty much impossible for them to do, well, what they are supposed to do. Tolerances are poor, and it seems impossible to get a useful crimp that doesn't overcrimp the pin. Next time, I will get those PA-09 crimpers.

author: frogblender
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 04:31:49 am
content: Has anyone had any luck with non-Engineer(PA-09,PA-20,orPA-21) "dupont-ish" crimpers?Everyone who's used the "Engineer" crimpers seem to say:1) they are the best ever, and,2) everything else is junk.Alas, I am frugal - Engineer is $40usd; thus, we have a problem.Crimping is a **metal-forming** operation. Repeat:metal-forming- the metal is formed; this involves forming of the metal. In my limited metal-forming experience:1) tool must have proper shape & contour;2) tool surface must besuper-smooth, so metal can easily slide over the tool3) tool must belubricated, for the same reason.In sleemanj's picture above, the SN-28B tool contour looks pretty good - it has the proper "butt cracks" needed to form the metal. And the jaws seem to align&interlock OK. So I'm wondering: why it is crap?I've seen jaw pictures of other ebay $12 ratchet crimpers, and yes, there is a wide variety - many do not have the required buttcracks. And the ratcheting tools seem to all be the "crimp insulation and copperboth at the same time" variety(unlike the Engineer tool, which requires you to crimp the copper wire, then crimp around the wire's insulation)- they have dual-stage "stepped" jaws, which IMO exponentially increases the machining precision required.... and the manufacturers of $12 ratchet tools are usually not known for precision machining... and junk results.But sleemanj's SN-28B *looks* pretty good... so what's the problem?If anyone has crap ratchet crimpers that *look* good, but crimp poorly, I'd like to know:1) is the tool surface rough? you may need a microscope to find out. Does fine-sanding help?2) does lubrication help? A dab of grease or spot of olive oil can make **huge** difference, when placed right where the metal sliding occurs (near the, umm, buttcrack). Grab your tool and try some lube!

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 04:53:47 am
content: Over the years I have used a lot of different types and brands of crimping tools.If you go out of the over 1k USD tools class,as soon as you try a Enginner one is no way to go back to anyhting else. I'm a long time happy user of the PA-09 and these were probably one of the best 50USD I have spent in my life!TIP: Look for genuine! Even better: buy it directly from Japan.

author: zzattack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 08:40:05 pm
content: My results with all $20 crimpers have been extremely poor. A seemingly proper $100 knipex that I have for one type of terminal gets the job done quite well, but when I mistakenly ordered a $150 die for the same type of terminal I learned why what appears to be simple piece of metal can be so expensive. I even kept the die.Lately I've been needing to crimp a number of simple open barrel terminals such as duponts/XH etc., so I was very happy to come across this thread. I'd like to try a TE/AMP die for them based on good past experience, but am having a hard time determining which is the correct one.The dies I'm looking at are the '58495-2' and '58641-2'.http://www.te.com/usa-en/compatible-58495-2.html?c=538310http://www.te.com/usa-en/compatible-58641-2.html?c=538245Does anyone have experience with those or know which would be the correct one?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2017, 09:36:56 pm
content: I use Pressmaster.. I threw away noname tools.. now connectors look and work perfectly...I generally don't buy overpriced tools when simpler tools can do the job.. But, with crimp tools, you have to pay a little more to get good tools.Not most expensive ones, but not the cheapest either...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 01:07:51 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on May 21, 2017, 09:36:56 pmSecond hand might be something to consider, especially if it has the name of a terminal manufacturer on it (huge markup).FWIW, I've picked up some Panduit (Wezag) and Daniels Manufacturing this way.If you must buy new, get it with the actual manufacture's label on it. And I also have an Engineer PA-?, which is an excellent value for what you get IMHO. But I still prefer a ratcheting type as I know it's getting sufficient crimping force.