Crimp tool for open barrel terminals? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 12:00:00 am
content: Dear people,I’m thinking about buying a crimping tool for open barrel terminals. I would like to make various car enhancements and I realized the housings of TE Connectivity’s FASTIN-FASTON match the ones I can find in my car. So, I think I’m bound to the FASTIN-FASTON. terminals too. I consider pricing and availability of these housings and terminals okay. I can buy it from Digikey and Mouser.Then I realized TE brand crimping tool is of course excessively expensive. So, after searching through this forum for a suggestion of a general open barrel crimping tool, I do consider Pressmaster MCT FRAME crimping tool with an appropriate die: possibly the 4300-3146.My primary concern is good compatibility with the terminal size and shape to get good consistent results.Therefore my main question is for open barrel end terminals, do companies like TE add features to that shape to cause problems with a general crimping tool like Pressmaster MCT FRAME? Of course I need to select the appropriate die size (area in mm2 or AWG range). But is there more to consider to ensure compatibility? For example the material, FASTIN-FASTON ones are brass, ok?As I’m a citizen from the Netherlands, importing stuff from the USA has a severe cost penalty. So, the Swedish Pressmaster might be a good one. I’ve also heard about Engineer Inc. from Japan, but their website doesn’t tell if they have distributors in Europe.Do you maybe have other suggestions for a crimping tools for open barrel terminals that I should consider? Preferably in Europe.Best regards,Zeyneb

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 12:30:57 am
content: There is already a stack of good information and advice in the thread linked below and probably more elsewhere on the forum.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/what-crimping-tool-do-you-use-for-quick-connect-terminals/

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 12:46:30 am
content: ratcheting type...all the way

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 11:43:13 pm
content: Of course the ratcheting type should be preferred. In my toolcase I use a AMP SuperChamp non-ratcheting type for size reasons, but you have to really watch for the position. Of the ratcheting ones, my preferred one is the Daniels GMT225 respectively the HX-3/HX-4. But there are fitting dies for the ratcheting crimp tools from Weidmueller, Knipex, Klauke and also the generic ones from Hoffmann Tools.

author: Prime
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 09:23:31 pm
content: Your best bet in that part of the world would be Pressmaster, Klauke or Knipex.I have a Hellerman crimping tool which works reasonably well.

author: jeroen79
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:32:26 pm
content: The Japanese Engineer crimpers can be bought from Amazon. (.de or .co.uk)

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 04:56:56 pm
content: Pressmaster is absolutely superb!! I have them and they are of good quality and make superb crimp.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 02:13:54 am
content: Quote from: jeroen79 on July 30, 2017, 04:32:26 pmThere are also Japanese sellers on eBay that sell them at reasonable prices (i.e.PA-09 for ~$48 shipped).Quote from: 2N3055 on July 30, 2017, 04:56:56 pmIndeed.I've even heard them called the Rolls Royce of ratcheting crimpers.You wouldn't be disappointed with Wezag or Daniels Manufacturing Corp. either. Rennsteig/Kinipex, are reported to be decent as well. Sargent too, but they've seriously cut back on the available dies (they used to carry more than any other manufacturer at one time).

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 09:56:26 pm
content: Thank you all for your suggestions. I contacted Pressmaster and they are willing to experiment with a few terminals that I should send them. So that is nice.You know TE FASTIN-FASTON is basically the 0.25", 0.187", 0.110" Quick connect/disconnect terminals to be employed in a housing. Both the receptacle (female) and tab (male) terminals have some tab to keep them locked in the housing. The housings are also within the FASTIN product series. According to Digikey and Mouser there aren't more manufacturers that offer these. At least not with good availability and reasonable pricing. So, I think I cannot use anything else but FASTIN-FASTON. The thing that worries me a bit is that for almost every terminal in the FASTIN series the the specification for the required wire insulation diameter is larger than what I have on my wires. So, in theory the terminals will have limited grip on the insulation. The only thing I can think of as a workaround is to employ a tiny ring of heat-shrink tube to increase the diameter by 0.6 mm.I hope someone have a more practical trick for me about this.Best regards,Zeyneb

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2017, 10:09:33 pm
content: An alternative would be to pick up anEngineer PA-09for example, and re-crimp the insulation portion. They only crimp one section at a time, which makes them more flexible than relying on heatshrink..There are eBay sellers in Japan that will sell internationally.BTW, I got my pair from the seller that's linked above. Shipping was quick too.

author: Zeyneb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:24:45 am
content: Hi all,I just figured out that TE sells much more different terminals than the catalog describes. These are on their website and not in the **outdated** catalog. So now I can find tabs and receptacles for 1.4 to 2.3mm diameter insulation. Even TE chat agents didn't point me to this. Quite bad. I feel like an archeologist in selecting the right stuff to buy. I totally hate their documentation. It's lacking to communicate the most basic info for what is important from the customers perspective. Like, why they have developed this connector system? What do mating dimples do for me? How can I figure out what mates with what? For what are Packard Style terminals good for? etcetera.How many hours of live chat time can they save when they are having documentation that assist in product navigation in the first place?Now TE will be suing me for this anti TE rant. Or they take it as feedback.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:02:31 pm
content: I have this tool (Pressmaster MCT) and lots of dies (15+). It's definitely one of the most loved - and used - items in my toolbox. I would need a separate toolbox just for carrying the crimping pliers in if I had all these as dedicated individual pliers. And yes, it does asuperbjob crimping open barrel connectors. And endsleeves. And RJ45/RJ11. And coaxes. And closed barrel. And insulated barrel. And... you get the idea. I even do Molex crimps with mine which works ok, though I do wish that Pressmaster/Wiha/Lapp/Cembre/Abiko (the same identical tool is available from all these brands) would make official Molex dies available, especially for the Mini-Fit/JR and Dupont style terminals.Edit:List of brand & model names for the MCTPressmasterMCTWihaPortaCrimpLapp KabelMobile Crimp ToolCembreIDTAbikoMobileElpressMobile

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:22:23 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 02:02:31 pmI'm also on a good way to such a collection...I would really like if they did make official Molex die.. Maybe it's a copyright thing? If not, they should...Regards,Sinisa

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:50:46 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 02, 2017, 02:22:23 pmI would suspect so, though shouldn't be a problem if license fee is paid - after all, this is how Molex make their money... Another issue might be that crimp tool manufacturers simply don't want this type of tool to be too successful, as it might threaten the ridiculous profitability of their dedicated tools.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 02:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 02, 2017, 02:22:23 pmThen you might findmy cross-referenced list of the available diesuseful. There are (at least) 46 in total!

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 04:01:55 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 02:54:07 pmVery helpful, Thank you!

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 04:31:47 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 02:54:07 pmThanks a lot!!Take care!!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 04:48:15 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 02:50:46 pmIt's to do with compliance (i.e. list of approved tooling), so the dedicated crimp tool market is safe. In the case of interchangeable die systems, they're missing locators which can allow too much variance in wire & terminal placement.Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 02:54:07 pmVery nice.Thanks for this, as some particular dies can be hard to find IME (some were even discontinued, such as the one for flag terminals).

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 05:07:33 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 02, 2017, 04:48:15 pmI understand, but cannot help reflecting over the vast quantity of sub-standard crimping tools flooding the market. No such considerations appear to matter to the manufacturers of these - and,let's face it, these cheap tools are what many of us tend to use. I would much prefer if there were dies available for the MCT that were designed to crimp Molex connectors, even if that meant the crimps would not pass aerospace certification. Instead I'm faced with having to use Pressmaster's "open barrel" crimping dies to do Molex crimps -whichcanbe done, but with less than perfect results. A case in point: right now I'm building a WWAN alarm system for my boat, and need to crimp both Mini-Fit Micro connectors (for the WWAN modem power port) and Mini-Fit JR connectors (for the PSU/UPS board) - there isno waythat I would ever be able to justify spending $1500-3000 on a pair of dedicated official Molex tools for this, or even the $1000 Imightbe able to pick them up used for - but I still need to get those connectors donesomehow.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 05:31:29 pm
content: I assumed your statement was restricted to the professional stuff, particularly if purchased from a terminal manufacturer (quite a markup). So my apologies.Try anEngineer PA-09for Molex. Granted, they crimp each area separately (make 2 crimps per terminal), but it solves the spacing and insulation damage. And at reasonable price.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 05:43:51 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 02, 2017, 05:31:29 pmActually, it should be quite simple to modify the smallest MCT open barrel die (4300-3150) to wrap the strain relief tabs instead of bending them into the cable by removing the dimple in the top part of the die with a, well, adiegrinder.Edit:Basically, what I'm trying to say is, I cannot see why Pressmaster couldn't make a die that would crimp Molex connectorsat leastas well as the PA-09. And call it a "power connector" die or whatever, to avoid Molex patent infringement claims.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 07:11:14 pm
content: Quote from: Zeyneb on August 02, 2017, 02:24:45 amThis company has really brought industry to a new low. They don't know anything about their own products. The former Raychem sales&support organisation in Germany was excellent, after TE it became simply abysmal. They don't know their own products even if you point them towards!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2017, 09:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on August 02, 2017, 05:43:51 pmFWIW, they licensed both the Weatherpack and Metripack copyright from Delphi Packard on those particular dies (don't think the patent still applies as they've been around awhile now). Perhaps Molex won't allow them to license their copyright and they wanted to avoid the confusion of making a Molex specific die under some other name.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2017, 08:29:13 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on August 02, 2017, 09:32:15 pmAnd the Solarlok and MC3/MC4 dies are also proprietary.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2017, 04:09:48 pm
content: The security/monitoring system for my boat, 95% complete - thanks to the MCT!Edit:Crimps required to complete this project:M3-M5 open barrel ring terminalsRJ45RG174 SMAMini-Fit JRMicro-FitMini-PV / Dupont

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 03:38:14 am
content: Nice and clean.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 07:55:39 am
content: Nice work.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2017, 08:57:53 pm
content: Apologies for the necro, but thought you'd like to see what I just stumbled upon: thePhoenix Contact CrimpFox-M:Looks quite familiar, doesn't it!?

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 03:21:10 am
content: Anyone tried Astro Pneumatic 9477?https://www.amazon.com/Astro-9477-Professional-Interchangeable-Tool/dp/B0045CUMLQAt 65-70 USD seems like a good deal.

author: vltr
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:40:09 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on September 08, 2017, 03:21:10 amI've used them. They're generally OK. I wasn't impressed with the quality of crimp I got on a few different open barrel connectors, but they worked pretty nicely on the regular red/yellow/blue crimps and some uninsulated ones as well. I don't think they really compete with some of the more professional oriented(whenever something is cheap and has the word professional in its name, you know it's not) crimpers in this thread, but they're a decent start to ratcheting crimp tools.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 01:20:26 pm
content: Don't get them confused with the real Astro crimp tools!https://www.astrotool.com/They are as genuine as 'Fuke' multimeters!

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:03:47 pm
content: Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on September 08, 2017, 01:20:26 pmGood point.However. I was actually looking at some other AstroPneumatictools the other week. I did not actually know that they made/rebranded (I assume they are rebranding) a crimping tool. Surprised the Hek out of me. This crimper came up in one of the Amazon deals, otherwise I would have never seen it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 05:45:42 pm
content: Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on September 08, 2017, 01:20:26 pmTheir products always remind me of whatDaniels Manufacturing Corp.offers.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 07:17:21 pm
content: That's not coincidental. Most of their products are covered by US/NATO standardisation.And any part of M22520/X crimp tools are supposed to be interchangeable.This applies to the dies and positioners, but probably extends to those spare parts for which a NSN exists.For the same reason there is a Belzer wirestripper that is identical to the Stripmaster.

author: biot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2017, 01:00:42 pm
content: In all the threads about crimp tools, the one thing I haven't come across is a recommendation for a tool that can crimp those regular Dupont terminals -- in one go. I realize the Engineer tool does it well, but that's three steps. Pressmaster has several dies that appear to have different front/back parts, but nothing that will match those Dupont terminals.So does such a tool even exist? Particularly hoping nanofrog will have an answer here!

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2017, 07:00:34 pm
content: Quote from: biot on September 17, 2017, 01:00:42 pmThe least expensive route I'm aware of would be to search forSN-28Bon eBay or similar (i.e. $10.99 shipped to the US). Bit of a gamble, but at that price, I have to admit it could be quite tempting.That said, the quality of the generic Chinese ratcheting crimp tools is questionable IME. The reason being it may not be able to adjust it into specs at all (I've run into this; hence the gamble comment above).So I'd recommend dealing with the additional steps involved with using the Engineer PA-09 to get quality crimps without spending an arm + leg (you'd be looking at ~$250 - $650). BTW I'm assuming low volume bench use; if this isn't the case, I may be able to make better recommendations.Also, setting your country in your user profile will help with recommendations. Particularly in regard to pricing & availability.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2017, 02:41:27 am
content: D-sub crimpers is another way you can look for them.FWIW, I use anAMP 58448-2(usedone that's a lot easier on the wallet). As it happens, it's actually a rebranded Daniels Mfg. Corp. DCT4-130, so there's more than one way to acquire one if you're interested.You could also look into aDaniels GMT series(find the one you need by the connector type), and see about locating a decent used unit.I only have 4.8mm/.187" and 6.3mm/.250" open barrel dies for my Pressmaster, but they also make a 2.8mm/.110" die (4300-3150). Anything else small, I've a Engineer PA-09 as these add up rather quickly, even when buying used. So I'm willing to live with a little inconvenience rather than spending ever more $$$ on crimp tools.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 01:16:52 am
content: Quote from: biot on September 17, 2017, 01:00:42 pmQuote from: nanofrog on September 18, 2017, 02:41:27 amI use the Pressmaster 4300-3150 die to crimp "Dupont" (or "Mini PV" as they're also known) connectors with ok-ish results. It's important that the wire gripping part of the contact doesn't protrude beyond the crimping die - easily adjusted after placing the contact into the tool and closing it down until it just grabs it. The image on the left below shows the contact protruding; crimping in this position will crush and bend the contact. The picture on the right shows the contact after adjustment.And here's a finished crimp:Clearly, the insulation wrapping portion fails to grab the wire properly, and pierces rather than wraps as it is supposed to do, but the connection is good, and you can always bend the wrapping portion further with a pair of pliers. I tend to use heat-shrink tubing on Dupont connectors rather than the dedicated housings, unless I need to fit a large number of contacts to the same header; I prefer the deeper grip this allows on the mating pin and heat shrink fortifies the assembly somewhat. And yes, I know I stripped a bit too much off the wire - just a quick one to show you all the result of the Pressmaster die.Edit:Someone should tell Pressmaster about the popularity of the Raspberry Pi / Beaglebone etc - there are millions of hobbyists (and plenty of pros too!) with no good way of crimping the only connector that mates with them. Can we have a dedicated Dupont die for the MCTplease? Better still: a die that also includes positions for Molex Mini-Fit JR and Micro-Fit. I for one would happily pay a handsome penny for such a chunk of metal...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 01:16:52 amNicely done on the photos.That die is definitely making a hatchet job of the insulation portion.FWIW, I'm also fond of using heatshrink like that.Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 01:16:52 amTime for an email barrage.Out of curiosity, how's the used market for crimpers in the UK?

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 06:41:05 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pmThank you - though all credit should go to Ricoh and theirCaplio GX200; finest macro ever seen on a pocket camera - I often use mine as a kind of microscope!Quote from: nanofrog on September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pmIknewyou would say that - but it is true. The die has a dimple in the top portion which folds the "wings" into the cable. I'm almost tempted to get a second one and grind off the dimple with a... die grinder.Quote from: nanofrog on September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pmSee; I'mnotcrazyQuote from: nanofrog on September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pmI was thinking I might send them an email, just to see what they say... I suspect copyright will be the issue they raise.Quote from: nanofrog on September 21, 2017, 06:23:52 pmPretty bad. The UK has gone from 70% of GDP from industry to 20% in just a few decades. No one makes anything here any more; it's all "money for nothing" now. Casino style. Consequently anything that resembles a professional/industrial tool is rare on the second-hand market. I buy a lot of stuff from Germany instead. But if you're looking for a dodgy financial instrument, or a tax evasion scheme, business is booming!Edit:Don't get me wrong: if you can make money sitting on your arse, twiddling your thumbs, good on ya! Congratulations. I just fear the laws of thermodynamics take a different view, and that chickens have it in them toeventuallycome home to roost.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 06:58:33 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 01:16:52 amObtain yourself some connectors with a modern style of insulation clamp. Look at JST RE and RF.

author: Lomax
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 07:03:34 pm
content: Couldn't resist; here's the humble 555 as captured by the GX200 - full frame followed by a pixel:pixel crop.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2017, 07:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 06:41:05 pmWorth a shot.Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 06:41:05 pmI'm sure I am though, as I've gone to buying the stuff by the reel.Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 06:41:05 pmCan't hurt to try.Quote from: Lomax on September 21, 2017, 06:41:05 pmAt least Germany is an option for used tooling.As per the financial stuff, it's the same here. What really gets me, is those responsible for creating this mess won't likely suffer the consequences.

author: biot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 10:42:22 am
content: Quote from: nanofrog on September 18, 2017, 02:41:27 amThanks for the great advice, nanofrog. I'll be on the lookout for one of those at a good used price, and use my SN-28B in the mean time (of course I have one. Hate it.)Lomax, those pictures are amazing. Excellent example of why the wrong tool just isn't going to crimp well.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 05:23:19 pm
content: Quote from: biot on September 22, 2017, 10:42:22 amYou're welcome.What's wrong with your SN-28B?I ask, as you*might*be able to adjust it to the correct crimp pressure. If it's the die,Lomax's idea of using a die grinder (Dremel, Proxxon, ...) might also be worth a shot.