cheap multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 04:08:45 am
content: Hello, I am new to the forum. I found it via a podcast I watched from dave about multimeters.I was doing research on how to use multimeters and had been viewing many how-to videos. I just friday purchased my first digital multimeter.You'd think I would of owned one for a long time. I'm not an electronics engineer (although I have wanted to learn since I was a child) I was given a $50 (in the late 1970's) radioshack multi meter as a Christmas present because I was trying to learn how to work on electronic toys and equipment.Alas, I never learned how to use it, no one ever taught me and we did not have the internet to use to find out. The meter is long since gone. I never learned anything about using them despite being a soundman and owning basic electronic tools (like a radio shack soldering iron and other tools suitable for minor electronic repair. I once even put togeter a kit from Ramsey electronics for an FM transmitter (I have worked in radio and TV) to use as a soundman.I have also been remodeling my kitchen (doing some minor electical changes) and trying to fix the electronic system of my car. All of these things need a multimeter. I have sadly however been lacking the skills use one and so have not purchased a new one ever before.I had very little money to spend last Friday but decided I needed a multimeter. So I went to a local tool outlet (not Harbour Freight btw) and purchased what I could afford.It is a Cal-Hawk DT830B. It cost me $7 plus tax. I also purchased a 12V continuity checker for $1.66.The only problem is as I already mentioned, that I had no clue how to use one. I also had no clue what the difference between a good multimeter and a bad one was. (I did know that the $7 model I purchased will not last a long time-I do not expect it to. (I consider it as disposable.)But, I love it. I had no clue how useful these things could be until I learned last night. I have been having fun measuring the 110 current in the walls, the voltabe of various batteries, testing the Alternator in my car and the charge of the car battery.I will buy a much better unit in time. Maybe not a Fluke (wich I had already heard about on the Tool Monger podcasts) but something a lot better and safer.Until then I will use this one as an expendable training meter and relegate it to the automotive tool box after I get a good one if it survives.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 04:25:46 am
content: prepare to save some money from now, probably $30 and up, and buy higher priced = higher quality = higher longevity DMM when your $7 DMM is dead, try to learn as much as possible with your cheaper DMM, as you said, testing everything is the right way to learn i think. But dont be too fun, get electrocuted can be fun too! just for the memory and if you still alive. If you are ready to get a newer DMM, put your cheaper DMM to measure ampere/current (DCA), and measure your cars' battery voltage. Worth the experience. Cheers

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 06:33:00 am
content: Quote from: haglered on October 10, 2010, 04:08:45 amEven with the fluke's fiasco, I'll still go with a fluke. The reason is that they don't skip out and get the lower cost parts to manufacture their gears.I came from a programming background, and we programmers know that the more people uses our software, the more bugs they'll find for us to fix. We believe in the idea that no software is perfect or bug free. Only time will uncover the bugs.I believe the same goes for hardware, too. In fact, many of the stuffs that Dave had said about EE was already told to me about programming while visiting programming channels on IRC. For example, a graphic programmer told me it took him five years to learn graphic programming, he then said now it takes only two years. The reason is the internet. It was strikingly similar to what Dave said about learning electronics these days.There is a difference between someone not testing their equipment and selling it, and someone who tested their stuffs and missed something. I perfer the latter.That said, I got a bug in my point-of-sale software that I was informed about. I need to go work on it when I feel like it. Being a free software that I made while learning programming, I just tell them, hey now you know what cause the bug, don't do this combinations, OK?

author: armandas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 06:59:27 am
content: Quote from: haglered on October 10, 2010, 04:08:45 amI strongly suggest against having fun by measuring high voltage sources. Current in the wall? *shrugs*

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 09:15:26 am
content: DMMs price from around $60 for a basic meter to $800 for the high end Fluke meters. For someone starting out a $60-80 meter is fine. For an EE a Fluke is required not wanted. And there is a sliding scale between the 2 price points. You should buy a meter that does what you require from it and does it within your price range.Regards

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 09:47:50 am
content: Does it look like this?http://www.jackstoolshed.com/p-2152-digital-multimeter-popular-dt-830b-easy-to-use-pocket-size.aspxIf so, it's a cheap piece of crap and I'd strongly recommend against using it for any high energy source be it measuring the mains or the voltage across a car battery because it it fails, it could severely injure or even kill you.Cheap meters like this are fine for measuring low energy sources such as a project connected to a small battery (a few AAs or a 9V battery) or a wall brick adaptor but not for anything more than that. The 10A current setting is probably not fused and there won't be adequate overvoltage protection.

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 10:53:35 am
content: That ain't crap, thats just plain scary.....regards

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 11:20:30 am
content: Check out thie thread linked below.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1423.0

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 09:41:32 pm
content: Yes, it does look exactly like that. And Yes I knew when I bought it that it was a cheap piece of garbage. I did not have the money to buy a good one and didn't know how to use one anyway.No, I did not realize how dangerously designed I'm sure it is; until I watched Dave's video on Itunes about how to choose a multimeter.I realize that It could easily fail when measuring high energy sources.That does not mean I will not measure high energy with it if I need to before I get a good meter. I will however choose carefully what and when and take some precautions.On the subject of meters that fail. I already had one that was sitting in the bottom of my electronics toolbox, totally useless, that I bought for about 50 cents at a garage sale or thrift store hoping it would work but I could not ever get it to work. I couldn't even get the back off to change the battery.Well, I decided today to get the back off. So I took my drill and drilled out the screw. I will post what I found.Notice the 2 burned out resistors. This must of happened long before I got it.

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 09:50:53 pm
content: The day I got the digital meter I used it to test a relay that had been in my car that I had replaced and found it was still good.I used it today to find out there is a 2.5 miliamp draw on the car battery, somewhere in the Lamp circuts. I am still trying to find the exact problem so I can fix it.It does seem a little sluggish sometimes and doesn't seem too reliable. It probably will not last very long. I will use it as long as it last.I will have to start doing some research to find a decent Multimeter available around here. (I really don't want to buy one online but I may depending on what I find.)

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2010, 11:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: haglered on October 10, 2010, 09:41:32 pmThose resistors got burned because some one has misuse the multimeter ...Its another thing one multimeter to not be able to handle something that it should ..And another thing to be misused from inexperienced users .If you learn how to properly use a multimeter... there is no way to kill even the cheapy one !!

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 02:39:58 am
content: I want to agree about using it properly and it will last. Unfortunately I have purchased enough crappy things to know that sometimes even if you baby it (and I don't usually) they will fall apart.This unit is starting to feel like it wan'ts to conk out on me.That's ok, I think it will do most of what I want it to do before it does.It will probably last for a few weeks then the electronics will stop working properly or the battery will die (assuming I don't treat it too roughly.)I like it though. I bought it to have someting to use at least short term and to try to finally learn how to use one and learn what they can do.For that it has already done most of what I wanted it for.If I had gone out and bought a good one. I might not of been too happy because I wouldn't know what I want or how to use it. When I start looking for a good meter I will know what I need and what to look for in a meter.I'm not sorry I purchased it at all.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 07:32:20 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 10, 2010, 11:22:20 pmNo a cheap multimeter can be killed even if it's being used correctly. If it's poorly designed, an over voltage can cause it to blow up or electrocute you, if you're measuring a low impedance voltage source, the output can go short circuit, drawing a large current which can cause fire, nasty burns and cause lead acid batteries to blow up.As I said before, using a cheap meter on a high energy source is taking a risk.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 04:48:22 pm
content: Again and again the same propaganda ...Mains voltage at homes are harmless even for the cheapys ...The mix of Industrial standards , with home use , causes misinformation .

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 06:00:54 pm
content: i have had this meter for over 10 years. 5 or 6 years as my primary meter. still works & looks great.craftsman auto ranging meterit can often be found in a combo set or on sale.this meter is surprisingly good for the price.http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.htmlmuch more difficult to use than the craftsman though... i haven't stuck it any wall sockets yet.-sj

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 06:05:41 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 11, 2010, 04:48:22 pmWhat a load of bollocks!Why don't you connect yourself to the mains and see for yourself?I bought a cheap DVM, the sort with permanently wired in probes and after awhile the insulation on one of the probes started to fail. I didn't abuse the cheap DVM and used it in the same manner as any other DVM, apart from having the sense not to connect it to the mains. Fair enough, one should always inspect the probes before use but it failed before the other meters I have, despite being used less, which obviously means the insulation wasn't good enough in the first place.I very much doubt you know anything about the safety requirements for test equipment. I suggest you do some reading, take a few crappy DVMs apart and hopefully you'll change your mind. Then there's the obvious problem of having no fuse on the 10A current setting so you'd have to be pretty ignorant to use it to measure a circuit which doesn't already contain a 10A fast blow fuse or a current limiting device.Quote from: sonicj on October 11, 2010, 06:00:54 pmIt looks all right, probably not top of the range but certainly OK for hobby use. I haven't heard of the brand, it's probably not great but you could certainly do worse.QuoteSimilar to the crappy meter I posted above, fine for low energy circuits, just don't measure your car battery or the mains, use the better meter for that.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 07:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on October 11, 2010, 06:05:41 pmWell it looks that you have no idea about shopping for multimeter s ,so its smart to watch all Daves videos, one by one ..againThis is your punishment , that with out it, every one it will laugh at your face as I do now ..

author: sonicj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 07:35:01 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on October 11, 2010, 06:05:41 pmits not great by eevblog standards, but for the casual home user its pretty good. if you know enough to get the dial turned to the right mode, you are good to go. craftsman is likely the most recognized tool brand in the US. sears has been around a LONG time.Quote from: Hero999 on October 11, 2010, 06:05:41 pmactually, this meter is quite frequently modified for high amperage use.linkobviously, this mod isn't for the inexperienced or those who can't appreciate a little danger.when used properly in its stock form, its perfectly capable of making safe, reasonably accurate measurements within its stated limits.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 08:01:49 pm
content: When people have tools or gear left about, and they get busy they will forget what they are really suited for. In my other life, we use a special lubricant that is oxygen safe, whereas a typical lubricant is not. The difference is that the non-safe one can flash fire under the right conditions.The big difference is cost, an ounce of 02 safe lubricant costs about $15, whereas silicone is about $3.00, but forgetting and inadvertently using the silicone lubricant risks a fire, and with pure oxygen, an explosion. The problem is both look the same superficially.Cheap DMM are similar, its safe to use within its deisign constraints, but if you make the mistake of using it for the wrong line voltage or specific conditions because you have it lying about and forget what its limitations are, is it worth the risk?Anyway, the short story is to avoid having problem with using the wrong lubricant, despite the cost, we use only 02 safe lubricant on all items, even those that are safe with silicone. Likewise, in professional work, we don't have any non-safetyreputableDMM about for the same risk. Since a good one can last forever, why risk grabbing a cheapo from a toolbox, climb a ladder, take it to field repair, to middle of the ocean on a boat, then find out it craps out on you 1000 mi from your lab, it can't take desert heat, humidity or the electrical noise of a electronics filled metal boat.Lastly, when checking the resistance for the arming pin on a smart bomb, the whole purpose of an entire trip by a single aircraft, who risks his life in a mission, to be dropped on an area to protect a bunch of Marines, do you want the reading to be done by a Fluke 87V or a Uni-T 81D both of which have been sitting on a table in 100F heat all day?Reputation is important too, because when folks are hurt or dead by a wrong reading, rare as that is, no amount of lawsuits is going to bring those dead or injured back.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 10:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 11, 2010, 07:10:51 pmTo be honest, I don't watch the videos here, just post at the forum.I don't know a much about the multimeter market as I have enough test equipment and have no interest in buying any more, hence why I'm not interested in product reviews or blogs.I do know quite a bit about safety standards and equipment construction. I've seen what goes into a shitty DVM and know to avoid that kind linked to above.Quote from: saturation on October 11, 2010, 08:01:49 pmThe trouble is the really cheap meters manufactures aren't honest about their design limitations, they'll have a 1000V range when the PCB clearances are only good for a couple of hundred volts.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2010, 11:43:26 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on October 11, 2010, 08:01:49 pmTranslation ... it goes to kill some poor people ...Quote from: saturation on October 11, 2010, 08:01:49 pmTranslation... The airplane had fall down ... and the Marines needs an multimeter so to count the enemies !!Quote from: saturation on October 11, 2010, 08:01:49 pmAt that point it depends , how many thousand counts are the enemies , if they are more than 19.999 forget the Fluke ...Jesus spare me ...

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2010, 02:11:17 am
content: It is clear that the more important the job the more important it is to use the best tools you have access to.If all you have access to is a cheap multimeter then use it with the greatest skill and care you can.If you have access to a top of the line Fluke than by all means prefer it.Some people have the reason to spend the money on the fluke. Some people do not and have to use the best they have.The next meter I buy will not be so cheap. For now all I have the resources to use is a cheap multimeter. I will have to use it as skillfully as I can.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2010, 05:15:43 am
content: Quote from: haglered on October 12, 2010, 02:11:17 amA cheap multimeter won't always break or hurt you instead it can humiliate and cost you money. In some cheap multimeters, they don't waste time implementing something to clue you in when the unit is low on battery. So when you're doing some checking, you might get some rather strange reading. Imagine declaring something defective because your cheap multimeter was low on juice. Now, imagine going back to your boss telling him that what you said was defective wasn't and that your meter was low on battery that day. Luckily, this happen mainly to ultra cheap multimeters in the sub-$20 range. This is just an example of no matter how skillful you are, your meter and you both will survive; but your reputation won't.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2010, 07:34:29 am
content: Quote from: haglered on October 12, 2010, 02:11:17 amThe trouble is cheap meters aren't normally used by skilled people, they're often bought by total nubes who are often too inexperienced to by measuring high energy sources in the first place.Quote from: MrPlacid on October 12, 2010, 05:15:43 amMy boss would have a go at me for using an expensive meter if it hasn't been calibrated recently enough. Cheap meters aren't worth calibrating. I think I would face a disciplinary for using a cheap meter on a QA test.I remember someone having a go at me for using a meter which hadn't been calibrated recently just to demonstrate the poor earth continuity on a panel, even though I wasn't doing a formal test, just confirming my suspicions. I think he was just using it as an excuse, I know the meter isn't calibrated but it shouldn't matter, of course I'll use a calibrated one for the real test.Of course we all know that 99% of the time it's not worth calibrating a DVM but that 1% can make a huge difference if you've used a faulty meter to test ££££££ worth of product which is why the boss cares.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2010, 04:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on October 12, 2010, 07:34:29 ammaybe you are surrounded by a bunch of dickheads. well, not for rejecting non calibrated, but simply using the fact as an excuse just to let you go, maybe your company got overcrowded already. sorry if i'm mistaken.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2010, 04:57:13 pm
content: Not everyone in the company is like that but the person who had a go at me was a dick head. I couldn't be bothered to argue with him though. Fortunately he didn't stay there for long anyway.

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 03:26:31 am
content: I cannot imagine needing a meter for work and using a sub $20 meter. If the place I working for doesn't insist on or provide a better meter than that I would have to question their standards.The cheap meters are for home use in my opinion. They are not reliable enough when real money or commercial business is involved. I'm a nube with a meter and I'm not that stupid.While I would buy one for personal use I certainly wouldn't depend on one for a professional application.I do think the next one I buy will be one with a real fuse in it. I remember thinking when I tested the 110 in my house "Is this safe? It must be, they must design these things for this. They do have a range up to 750."I'm not real afraid it will blow up but If I do it again I will do it with care and for a good reason. I have a little tester that will tell me if there is power. I will use the meter if I need to know how much power.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 11:30:01 am
content: @ hagleredI totally agree with you ...And its not just that, you had describe your thoughts , by choosing the proper words !!As an not native English ( speaker - writer ), I do have everything packed in my head ,but I do have hard times to deploy my thoughts on the board ..From todayand on , I will just copy-paste , your message to any new on the blog,who will come in the future to start an" cheap multimeter "thread ..

author: PeterG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 11:39:50 am
content: Who would have thought a 'Cheap multimeter' thread would generate so many responses.Regards to all.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2010, 12:11:49 pm
content: Quote from: Darkman1969 on October 13, 2010, 11:39:50 amalmost everybody here got their DMM, some cheap some expensive, some got both. with experience and no experience, or just a bit. So everybody tried to make their pointps: one day if we want a gathering, i'm pretty confident we can make "must bring your DMM" as regulation!

author: DARKHORSE
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 04:41:19 am
content: Someone has already said this and I will say it again SPEND THE MONEY AND BUY A GOOD METER! Even if you only spend $50 you will save yourself a lot of pain and misery down the road, especially if you go and measure mains or something and your cheap meter blows up in your hands!

author: haglered
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 05:28:07 am
content: Quote from: DARKHORSE on November 15, 2010, 04:41:19 amI am buying a better meter. One that has been described as unimpressive by someone on this forum.It is actually sold as an automotive repair tool. I intend to use it for that and for general electronic work.To be honest... I wouldn't use it the same way I am using the cheap meter. Because of the electrical problems I am having with my car I am checking and rechecking the voltage on the battery and on a jump starter I have purchased.I am getting more than my money's worth out of the cheap meters I have purchased. I can use them without fear of damaging a more valuable tool. I have been carrying it around in my coat pocket. I would never do that to the meter I am buying for $50 from the pawn shop.Are they very precise and reliable? NO. I don't have to have that for the majority of what I am doing now. They are in effect disposable meters that I am using the heck out of. (well, not as much as a good one on the bench of a circut designer.)They were definitely worth the few bucks I spent on them. They also make you appreciate the quality of a well designed meter and make you go ohhh! when you handle one.Basicaly I am using it as a glorified battery checker. When I want a more precise reading I would not rely on the cheap meters. But I would not want to drag a good meter around like I do the cheap one.I don't wear my good shoes to walk through mud either.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 11:22:15 am
content: You can get a lot of mileage out a 'cheap' DMM, its just how much is a guess.I own a "quality" Sanwa analog meter, the original version of the YX360:there is nothing to break, and its as good as a cheap DMM in precision and accuracy, but it uses batteries only for the ohm range. If you want to make basic measurements to 1% accuracy in a car, why even bother with a digital?A quality analog MM depends on the mechanical quality of the galvanometer movement, and that's were clones or cheap analogs could never compete, this AMM is over 30 years old, the mechanical movement and calibration used in analog MM does require really good technology for its type, to be worth its accuracy rating.Cheap DMM are usually all very good to 1% or better, but electronics can be the cheapest part of a product, a lot more goes into the casing and test leads. I have a 7 year old Radio Shack branded Sanwa digital MM, and its case broke last year, alas, I was in the middle of a forest with no spare meter in site, but luckily my buddy carries a meter too. I have 20+ year old Fluke 80s that are still as good as new [and one that is 10 years, and another that is 4 yrs old] and have taken more beating than this Sanwa.If you do buy cheap $5-10 style DMM it may pay to buy 2-3 of them, so if they break unexpectedly or read goofy, you can cross check it against the other ones.However, I find you can buy a second hand Fluke 80 series, for under $100, or even $50, depending, on eBay, including S&H. If you're experienced with bidding and DMM, and since Fluke 80s seem to last forever, a second hand one is almost as good as new and should last a lifetime and good for rugged use, without any special case or handling.Quote from: haglered on November 15, 2010, 05:28:07 am

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2010, 11:59:59 pm
content: The onlytruereason , for getting an "more qualified" DMM , its theTrue RMSthingy.Simple as that.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2010, 06:51:03 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on October 11, 2010, 04:48:22 pmRubbish.The mains is a high energy transmission system that is connected to a complex distribution system outside of your control.Lighting can hit many km away, wind or cars can bring down power poles and short wires, your neighbor can use some dodgy bit of industrial gear etc etc etcThere are countless scenarios that can cause high energy surges on the mains system.Granted, ones of a sufficient magnitude to fry a meter are not that common, but they can happen.That's why there is a whole flourishing (often audiophool-like) industry to protect appliances from mains surges.An then of course there is probe quality (which you (rightly) harp on about), or lack there-of on the cheap meters.So it is far from propaganda, there are genuine reasons to use properly designed and rated gear on the mains.Dave.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2010, 08:43:32 am
content: Dave you have a point , only if you referring about locations far from the city , that you probably have your summer house .The electrical network in the city's are so much controlled, like to was an experiment in a glass tube.And so we can not baptize as general rule , the exception.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2010, 09:01:23 am
content: i always treat mains with caution and carefullness, regardless of what equipment i'm connecting, coz electrocution is not a good experience. Cheers, be safe

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2010, 01:36:02 pm
content: Couldn't agree more. For an example of a surge on a standard mains line, see my post here and what it did to my APC surge protector:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=381.0Quote from: EEVblog on November 16, 2010, 06:51:03 am

author: tinsmith
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2010, 08:28:53 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 16, 2010, 08:43:32 amI'm not sure that's true. There are many, many more nodes in a city. Some things like lightning strikes may be more common because a wider area could be involved before it's effectively purged from the system, but other types of "pollution" could be more common.Regardless, it's not something you have control over, so you should treat it as the hazardous source that it is. At best, you're trading probabilities, which will always bite you given enough time.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2010, 01:25:28 pm
content: Did somebody mention being shockedA little OT here but a couple of storys you may enjoy..When I was about 5 years old I was wandering around the garage when I found and old round pin plug (anyone around 45 years old may remember these.) Anyway I proceeded to take this plug into the house where I then found a socket that it would fit. As I was 5 years old I didn't notice, or even bother about the fact that the top part of the plugs rear cover had a big hole in it, so I just plugged it in, switched it on. AND THEN... because I could see a gold shinny thing inside the plug.. I stuck my finger in there to touch itBANG!!! I got zapped really good with 240v worth of electrons. I was then thrown backwards and halfway down the stairs to the landing where I ended up in tears shouting.. MUUUUM.I never did that again!I’ve got a higher voltage story too….I'd been working as an auto technician for many years when one day I was working around a vehicles ignition system. I was leaning forward against the front of this car with alternate hands stretched out for support against the vehicles strut mounts (front suspension,) whilst working with other hand.During this particular job I had the engine running whilst trying to trace an intermittent misfire, now bear in mind that this was at a time when engine diagnostic machines were only just being launched, even though manufacturers had been making cars with very high voltage electronic ignition systems for a while.In those days to trace an intermittent misfire it was acceptable to do it the ‘quick way’, whilst the engine was running. The ‘quick way’ was to grab your nylon pliers and pull each ignition lead off one by one until you traced the cylinder with the weak spark. Now normally you would never get a shock using these nylon pliers, but on this occasion I was leaning on a good earth (the opposite suspension strut.) In a millisecond I felt the 45000v go up my right arm, across my chest and down to the strut were I was leaning, the shock was one hell of a jolt which pushed me back away from the engine (luckily,) and threw my pliers halfway across the workshop. Pheeeew that one really took my breath away.The one hand in pocket rule is a good one!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2010, 03:55:58 pm
content: Quote from: orbiter on November 19, 2010, 01:25:28 pmI did ... 4 times last week .At the same job ...I was send to inspect four cement light poles , because they had stopped working,and the city block , was totally dark at this spot .Damage report ... underground cables ( bridge point ) under the asphalt ( location unknown) ,had short out , by cutting the earth cable connection and the neutral connection ,and one of the three phases was touching the cables of earth ground and neutral that was responsible for those four poles ... ( and so it was not grounded )And by touching the metal cover on the side of the cement pole , so to remove it and inspect the inner connection of its pole , I got my bonus "light electrocution" sock.Four poles with the same problem , four electrocutions I got ..Because it was part of my job and duty , to disarm the problem , so even if it was not fixable at the specific moment , at list no civilian would be in danger , if he was accidentally touch the cement pole metal cover .... ( small child or other )By choosing to become an electrician,I was had the awareness that this profession its an high risk one, just by it self.I have learn to live with the danger, that's why I get easily misunderstood,because there is some dangers more worthy to called as such , from some others.And about the job above , no one told me to have gloves ... it was an truly unexpected scenario ,that no one can predict.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 04:12:22 pm
content: My first 230V shock? Age about 3-4 years.Young David decided to stick a knitting needle and a metal corkscrew into one of each holes in thewall socket. Not a good idea.RCD's weren't standard back then and still are missing from old buildings. I don't underständ why theyaren't mandatory everywhere even now.Ever since then I have treated electricity with care. Nevertheless it happened again, of course.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 06:32:57 pm
content: Warning, Graphic: Fatal electric shock. On the extreme but a lesson, you can only make such a mistake once.http://www.metrojoint.com/video/A_man_gets_electric_shock_on_top_of_an_Indian_train/5860

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 07:07:19 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 19, 2010, 03:55:58 pmu just never learn!maybe we should discuss one simple thing that never brought up here... thetest pen!the first electrician's best friend, before the famous DMM!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 07:32:16 pm
content: Test pen or not .... after the first shock , I had awareness..But in order to work safely, I would had to ask for total black out, in all the area.I am not saying this to prove that what I did was right or wrong,but there is some times , that you have to override safety for the common good !( some one will wonder , why they send an industrial electrician to repair city lights ,well at the factory that I was working until last week ( it was Far out of the city),and they had an private housing estate, for the workers , about 120 homes )

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 07:48:16 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 20, 2010, 06:32:57 pmwell... thats not so funny. thats an instant "cooked beyond recognition"! why would such HV is exposed to public area? its not an electric train? well, the guy is certainly psychotic and he deserve that, after being offered help from others which he refused, apparently.Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 20, 2010, 07:32:16 pmthis is the reason why some people appeared in "evening news". luckily its just normal mains you were touching, not like in the vids... no second chance! (but actually the late guy did)some people still dont get it, or choose not to get it... if they risk their safety, they also risk the work they are doing as well. if you are dead, then the whole city is still in blackout until they find/hire another electrician. if i want to choose to save the mother or the children, i'll choose to save the mother. coz the mother still can make a new baby, but less likely for the child that is to be saved. but it will be better if we have both.well, my analogy maybe bad, try this... have you seen "Deep Impact" movie? the government only list the scientists/experts and other random young people to be in the Noah's Ark/Cave, coz they just more important than normal/older people. still dont get it? ok then, i'll just simply rest my case

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 08:26:11 pm
content: my bro is saying similar thing. he said he's been many time being electrocuted and its nothing according to him. maybe its just an electrician ego, sent/share to him the vidz link, hope he'll got the lesson from it.

author: .o:0|O|0:o.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 08:41:10 pm
content: If I stand on a wooden stool wearing rubber soles, rubber (or rubberized) gloves and safety glasses, what is the likelyhood of being electrocuted, injured or dying when operating on a live domestic circuit (say changing a light rose or something like that).I have done this on several occasions using an insulated screwdriver and multimeter, and the biggest concern was a wire piercing one of the gloves.To me it seems that the biggest risk is from falling off the stool and landing on the screwdriver or something to that effect. The likelyhood of both gloves being pierced at the same time and closing a "dangerous" circuit seems highly unlikely, and if one of the gloves were to be pierced by a live wire the shock would be localized and would at best cause me to lose my balance -- and gravity would disconnect from the wire.I don't do this routinely and I have resorted to doing this to avoid certain risks and inconveniences that arise when working alone and having to distance myself from the exposed wires, in order to disconnect and reconnect the mains..o:0|O|0:o.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 08:48:43 pm
content: i know one guy who is dead due to this electric/ladder thing. he was the most famous experienced electrician in our town. and he got a beautiful daughter (now married) that i used to see occasionally

author: gobblegobble
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 09:20:06 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 20, 2010, 06:32:57 pmWow. Makes sure one doesn't want to climb high and grab a hold of high voltage transmission line. (That's why they're high up there in the first place!)It's quite low def but I'm not sure I'd want to see it in high def either...Quote from: shafri on November 20, 2010, 07:07:19 pmIt's quite handy, but can be a bit misleading sometimes. It's not that it's making "false alerts" but the threshold is a bit low if you're having leakage currents. In a ungrounded house you can stick it into anything and it'll beep: television, hifi, heater, you name it... Sure the electricity is there but if you're well grounded and touch the item you just probed the current won't (likely) be anything you could feel. The simple electrical voltage testers with probes are better in that area if a bit less convenient.Edit: the train itself wasn't necessarily powered by electricity but the line was there for the ones that are. Quite a common sight around here where I live.

author: orbiter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 09:23:35 pm
content: Quote from: saturation on November 20, 2010, 06:32:57 pmMy grandfather was killed like that at Stafford in the UK. He was trying to replace an overhead light unit whilst working on a track laying machine. It was very damp on the morning he was working which unfortunately made it very easy for the 25kV to get him

author: SG-1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 09:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: .o:0|O|0:o. on November 20, 2010, 08:41:10 pmMany an electricians lifes have been saved because they were working on a ladder. They usually got in trouble with the neutral wire. Could not let go until their legs gave out & they fell. The impact can even restart a heart. The ladder can work both for you or against you.

author: SG-1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 10:22:21 pm
content: Here in America we call the analog meter shown in this thread a VOM (Volt-Ohm Meter).The situations to avoid with a meter:1. Have the meter in ohms instead of volts and touch the leads to a voltage source. The better meters will just beep at you now ( hopefully ).2. Have the meter leads in the current jacks & touch the leads to a voltage source. This is the most dangerous thing you can do. It is also a very easy thing to do. This error can be last for an industral electrician, as it may result in an arc blast.Always double check your setting before touching a voltage source.Return the meter to the standard voltage measurement configuration after a current measurement.When probing mains voltages always wear a leather work or driving glove. Any glove is better than your bare hand. Unless you own chain mail !! This will greatly limit any shock you could receive from the mains. Safety glasses are a good idea too.Oh, yes never measure the electric fence with your meter !Just a few simple things to know, so you an your meter can have a long & happy life.Here is a link to the 10 Dumb Things Smart People Do When Testing Electricity.http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2071940_6003_ENG_B_W.PDF

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2010, 10:43:48 pm
content: There are simply rules to follow for each CAT rating you are exposed too. One simple safety item for home work, which is CAT 3 or lower, is also wear insulating rubber soled footwear, not leather and wear cotton clothes, don't do it naked or bare feet!http://www.ien.com/article/selecting-right-amount/7594The reason is the spark, is usually high intensity but short duration, and clothing alone can provide protection against the flash. Shoe insulation protects the user from electrocution. CAT 4 level issues are best left for a certified professional.Plastic eye glasses or eye protection is at least for CAT 3, also you should wear it whenever power tools are used.There are other safety items you can do that aren't part of CAT ratings, but the one-hand rule never hurts. If you probe something you aren't sure, don't hold both probe leads, but connect one with a alligator, and probe with one hand, this way the full circuit is not with you but only on the test gear.Now, given all this extra stuff to think about, the last thing you need to worry about is if you are using a 'iffy' cheapo meter, just how good it is. You don't want to do the one-hand rule and then grasp the meter with the free hand, not knowing the ground is somehow exposed in one way or another or poorly insulated.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2010, 04:20:26 am
content: Quote from: SG-1 on November 20, 2010, 10:22:21 pmSome one very recently did just that , and now he is with a dead DMM ...The poor fella was a kid in a farm or something, and came in the forum for instructions,about repairing it.The poor DMM fried it self .. and it was just in the second testing measurement ..The first was an small battery.

author: SG-1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 21, 2010, 04:51:58 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on November 21, 2010, 04:20:26 amI had a friend who did this also many years ago. The meter was fried.