Flir E4 powering off after few seconds  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 08:27:11 am
content: Hello last week i bought a flir E4 which was broken they told meand after placing a battery in and powering on , it shuts down after few seconds. i just see the boot logo a second or so...when i connect it via usb i can see the storage of the the camera in my windows appear. and opening flirtools show a green screen.When i asked what really happend they told me " the camera could have been pointed to the sun which made the IR sensor bad". it was a sellers guess because collegue borrowed it and gave it back broken???but can it also be a short in the power circuit?how can i simply start debugging this camera?i saw somewhere it is a windows CE unit and there is a posibility to see boot logs.i have to admit i am new to this sort of equipement and not familiar to the all flir tools which i could use so who can help me on track.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 11:47:35 am
content: A burned Microbolometer would not normally cause such a quick shutdown. If the camera detected a faulty microbolometer ROIC, it would either produce an unuseable image or fail to complete the self test stage of the boot sequence. That said, if someone was really determined to incinerate the microbolometer using the sun, I suppose the ROIC could present a short circuit to it’s supply rails. That would be really unusual however.I believe this fault will be far less exotic in nature.The E4 has a serial UART engineering port that may be monitored during the cameras boot sequence to see what errors are present when the camera shuts down. I believe the serial port is detailed in Mikes review of the E4 and the commentary that follows in the E4 teardown thread on this forum.https://youtu.be/NtqUE67BUDIhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/The UART port is discussed and detailed in the first few pages of the teardown threadMany failures of thermal cameras that have been loaned to people are nothing more exotic than the person dropping the unit and causing impact event damage. Camera hire companies have told me of many such cases of damage and I have repaired a few over the years. Always check that FPC ribbon cables are fully inserted in their ZIF sockets and are still straight so that they do not short adjacent contacts on fine pitch sockets. I have even seen such FPC cables completely detach themselves due to physical shock.Fraser

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 02:35:43 pm
content: Hi Fraser thanks for your info. ok so many i could have a little luck with it. that maybe they drpped it ...( the ir sensor was just a guess from the seller)ok about the UART-port let see if i can find what i need ;-) thanks very much again for now.. i will come with an update , when the time is there.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 03:52:17 pm
content: An easy go forward to disconnect the sensor ans see what happensSo, i took the unit apart and the links show what is exactly happening when powered on, ir sensor is removed/disconnected and also the red /black calibration cable - like mike calls it- is not plugged in.maybe you or mike recognize this problem it is powered on and in a second off... in the end a red led is flashing??https://imgur.com/a/VKwFptPwhat is the button exactly =>> located on the board it says:load on/off

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 04:14:43 pm
content: That looks like a classic boot loop due to corrupted or incomplete firmware.Forum member “Bud” likely knows a lot more about the symptoms and diagnosis of such a fault but I do believe your camera has suffered corruption of the file system and when the boot-loader tries to load the firmware into memory it finds an error and reboots the camera.You need to get into the file system via the USB port and fix the corrupted file(s). Others on the forum may be able to help with virgin files for you to use. I suspect this camera is a victim of either a failed upgrade attempt or someone using a PC to reformat the picture memory area. A PC based format is known to kill some E4 cameras by destroying vital operating system data held in the picture storage flash memory area.It is not uncommon for people who borrow thermal cameras to want to erase the images that they have taken for security/personal reasons. They sometimes use the PC format function on the cameras picture memory area and that can be disastrous for some Ex series cameras.Fraser

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 06:33:35 pm
content: Hello Fraser thanks again i will try on the forum and have a look. is there a specific name (person) , i can contact to help me ontrack?that load button inside not use it?? is that not for corrupt camera recovery? like reset al to default?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 06:56:43 pm
content: The load button is mentioned in the first few pages of the E4 Teardown thread. It looks to be a firmware loading initiatorFraser

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 02:48:24 am
content: Does it power itself off or it gets stuck in the black screen and you power it off ? I do not see the camera cycling in a loop in the video.I think since you have it disassembled it is best to connect the serial output (pin 5 and pin 16 for the ground, 38400 baud) to the computer and capture the output with a serial terminal program, TerraTerm or similar. You may need a level converter from 3.3V ,perhaps using a USB to Serial adapter.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 09:28:57 am
content: Bud,You are right…. My error…. The video looped and not the camera boot loopingThat is what happens when you quickly watch a video and do not realise that it is a looping video !Fraser

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 10:29:58 am
content: Hi bud, thanks for your reply. what does it do exactly:(and indead the movie is a loop.)- battery connected- then push power button- then it turns on like the movie and turns of again .....that is it. [then the movie loops]ok about the output is there a schematic or so. or a picture on how it is connected. i need the FFC connector which is not populatie on the board...mmmm. ok

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 10:43:09 am
content: ah i found this : [will come with update later, first order cable and debug.]Starting from end nearest to the unpopulated FFC connector1 Power - Vbattery during run and charge - possibly via a FET switch as I didn't see continuity to bat terminal2 On/Off switch (to ground)3Console RXD4Console TXD5Debug RXD6Debug TXD7 /Reset8 0V910111214 I2C SDA15 I2C SCL16 0VPins 10-13 look like they may be build option resistors - two have 10K to +3.3v, two have 1K to ground.the connector will take a standard 16 way 0.5mm jumper cable, e.g. Molex 0210200165 available from Digikey amongst othersmaybe a good question to end with for now.Is there a possibility to get my unit into RNDIS mode now it is not powering on ?maybe through connection over USB.... if yes, what is the appoach?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 01:35:58 pm
content: I can't remember if it is possible to switch to RNDIS in power off state. You need to download and install FLIR drivers, then use FlirInstallNet.exe (if i remember the exe name correctly) to upload RNDIStemporary.fif available from the E4 WiFi thread. The temporary RNDIS will only work for one session until next reboot, the camera will return to USB mode. I recommend doing this on a XP system or virtual machine as it always works, not like on Win 7 or 10.If the filesystem was damaged as Fraser explained, there are no known methods to fix that as far as I know. There were two or three such cases over the last few years and the posters in the end had to send their cameras to FLIR fir repair.I recommend asking the previous owner if they attempted applying the resolition mod. If the camera was bricked as a result of that, it may be fixable without sending to FLIR.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 04:34:16 pm
content: Hi Bud, thanks for your reply. ok clear WinXp.and RNDIS is just per session.i asked the seller and hé told me a colleque borrowed it an d brought it back....broken.i thought it was the IR sensor but i think it is not.because it also doesnt boot with the sensor disconnected.uuh the file system damaged this is not repairable i understand.but first i will go for the debug option.what should the output be when it is the filesysyem? and what when it is the ir sensor.is that clearly visible in the debug startup method?i will keep you updated but it will take some time.thanks for now

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 04:40:36 pm
content: I do not know. You will have to capture and post the log here, and we will try to make sense of it.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2022, 05:29:37 pm
content: ok i will thanks i just order the cable and adapter will come in few weeks.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2022, 03:56:51 pm
content: just out of my curiousity, if this camera is windows CE driven and that is what i found on the sticker on the chip inside.why is a non booting camera not "repairable" i mean in windows ce files are replaceble not ? or is it possible to restore a camera with a corrupt boot-loader.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2022, 04:21:05 pm
content: To repair a camera with corrupted files you need to identify exactly which files have been damaged or deleted and also whether the file is unique to each camera. To date, no one has managed to identify which file(s) are damaged/deleted by a PC format on the flash memory image area. No hidden system files were found in that memory area on working caeras. It remains a mystery why some cameras are damaged by a PC based format of the stored image area via USB.In cases where Win CE files were damaged or deleted, it has been possible to replace them and return the camera to service. FLIR authored thermal camera files are more challenging as some are checked against the cameras serial number and may not be transplanted without changing the checksum contents to match the new host, as is the case with the easily accessed plain text configuration files on the very early E4 models. Later models made life a lot harder on this front as a countermeasure to the upgrade. The firmware on the later Ex models is deliberately challenging to manipulate.From memory, the Ex series runs Windows CE6 and that is anything but a secure OS as many on here know. That said, it can be challenging to work with the Ex cameras Win CE as it is being used in an embedded configuration. If you are knowledgeable on using and programming Win CE you may be able to gain the required access to inspect the OS for errors etc. The starting point is the boot log as that may give you a hefty hint as to what the camera is discovering wrong at boot. From memory, one forum member managed to, at least partially, recreate the Ex camera Win CE6 OS and FLIR specific file set on a Dev platform to investigate its operation. That was a long time ago though.Fraser

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2022, 11:05:58 pm
content: Some E4 OS files cannot be overwritten. I recall some even cannot be backed up. E4 user is running under a non- privileged account, there are limitations what can be backed up or restored. If the OS is corrupt I think the golden image would have to be loaded, which none of us have. And i suspect that "Load" button may have to do with the initialization. Perhaps you put the golden image package on the USB storage and press this button to install it, or hold the button while power the camera on.The firmware upgrade packages are not for that, they are for application updated, not OS.

author: charlyd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 06:19:21 pm
content: Thanks for the reply guys, about the load button does this mean i have to press it while booting later when the FFC cable are all connected for debug purpose.or do i just NOT use that "load" button because it will break or destroy/kill even more?What about a sort of default loader stored in a eeprom in the camera that is restore with a special threatment of that load button in combination with other buttons.ok...let s wait until the parts arrive....

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2022, 06:39:20 pm
content: I'd leave the button alone, its function is unknown.