Windows DCH driver APP/store bullshit & Intel BLOATED DCH drivers missing things - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 05:04:24 am
content: All I wanted to do was to force on Vsync by default.I got there in the end but so frustrated by the amount of time and effort I had to go for something this is suppose to be so easy, simple and basic to set settings that I had to struggle removing the new Command Centre despite uninstalling and trying to find a version of the previous Intel Graphics Control Panel to install and show up.I simply click that an the Intel Control Panel appears in about a second.I add Unrealtournament:That's it and the tearing stops. Not hard is it and I thought that was a bit oversimplified an dumbed down.From the beginningI installed the chipset drivers on this Lenovo T490's laptop but found later on with certain games and stuff tearing. So I find the Intel Control panel now here it seems:Ridiculous. 8 SECONDS! to load that up.License:Not pleased with having information collected but it gets better when they remove features like below.I thought it looked like a social networking tool at first with that is at the bottom:Why are these STUPID things in there that launch the web browser and URL.Like that is so important that anything else.What place does it have in such a tool that controls the graphics settings.Don't you think that is just stupid?As soon as I saw that I thought it is going to be crap and not give me what I want.Options to control Anti Aliaising an Vsync not there.Turns out I was right.https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Not-able-to-turn-off-vsync/m-p/366466/highlight/trueQuoteQuoteWell that is very helpful isn't it.https://community.intel.com/t5/Graphics/Trouble-finding-the-V-sync-option-in-Graphics-Command-Center/td-p/1438998QuoteQuoteI had problems where I'd install the driver but the Intel Control panel service wouldn't appear or start in Services, according to the logs the files were missing in the driverstore but the folder was there so I manually copied them over and now the previous Intel Graphics Control Panel appears with the Vsync setting. I thought it was all put into c:\windows\system32 and the Driver sub folder.I thought it was just Intel but I see Microsoft ordered it:https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000134505/what-are-dch-drivers-and-why-do-you-need-to-know-about-themQuoteQuote* UTTER BULLSHIT!All I do is find out the name of the whatever, download the driver, and install it and it appears in either the control panel, start menu or wherever and that's not hard. They seem to make it hard when it is not.I find this hard:It SHOULD NOT need to or depend, Net framework to function for the "APP" and up to date, a Microsoft account, a stupid APP store to fin and install it and the package being available in this store.https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000088086/graphics/intel-arc-dedicated-graphics-family.htmlQuoteOn one occasion during my experiments trying to get the old panel to work I had to manually remove the Command Centre drivers and services which were still there after I selected to uninstall and delete the driver. Maybe they deliberately made it like according to the article above from DELL.QuoteI see Intel removed the VSYNC and other settings to another "APP" Arc, in the Appstore for gamers.I want Vsync forced on all the time not just for games.I find it stupid to split the driver package in half in the first place for all the basic things and just stick it on the APP store. I should be able to go in there and set things directly not depend on a whole load of things to have access to it.In my case they appeared bundled with the installer from the Lenovo drivers but lacking the most basic features.https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000134505/what-are-dch-drivers-and-why-do-you-need-to-know-about-themQuoteI find it so much worse that Microsoft seems to be demanding that to access the settings of the driver, for it to only be accessible from from Net Framework "APPS" obtained from their Appstore.What do you think?

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 06:25:19 am
content: I have, at this point, totally given up on goddamn motherfucking Micro$oft or any of their OSs beyond what I have.I'm very happily using Windows 7, which, yeah, I know, isobsolete, no longer supported, yadda yadda yadda. Whatever. I'll use it until either 1) I die or 2) it becomes unusable due to some cloud/interweb/other requirement that can't be overcome except by buying the latest and greatest version, at which point I will take all my computer equipment to a remote location, procure some high explosives and blow it all to Kingdom Come.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 04:14:48 pm
content: It took me two years to customize that Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 1809, observing it on the side and removing unwanted things like Waasmedic and things that appear like this dialogue over the traybar above the the time, "YOU NEED UPDATES... CLICK HERE TO INSTALL etc" and preventing the UpdateOrchestrator from doing what they like, to get it the way I want until I started using it myself. I have a disc image I extract when I want another one and buy the key. That should be supported for another 5 years or so.I refuse after what I saw in 2019 to have an operating system with an App store where Microsoft has remote control and dictate everything and install Candycrush or anything behind my back without my consent or permissionI hear with the Windows 11 or was it 12 that you NEED to have a camera if it is a laptop.Since when was it their business whether it was a laptop or desktop to dictate what they DEMAND you have.When I buy something new out of the shop I expect it to work OUT OF THE BOX with no fictitious dependencies that may not be there or available one day.What happened above with the Command Centre and the data gathering and telemetry reminds me of this Sony XA2 phone that was given to me in 2020 where I ended up replacing the operating system with Lineagos. It had this Microsoft Swiftkey installed that had no settings to, turn off suggestions, autofill, predictive texting, that appear above the keyboard take up room and annoy as I type, I can spell thank you very much. I tried to install the original Android keyboard but it kept on failing to install now I wonder if that was deliberate as well.In the settings of this Microsoft Swiftkey which hardly had any, it mentions about the words I type being collected and sent to Microsoft labs for analysis. So it's ALL ABOUT Microsoft and what THEY WANT. Sod the user if they want a few settings to suit their needs.Look what i found.https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/2/24233992/microsoft-recall-windows-11-uninstall-feature-bugQuoteFixing it FOR THEMSELVESUser don't want that and uninstall, we'll IMPROVE it by FORCING it upon you.Sounds to me like harassment.I had someone complain to me about this out of the many things (nagged about paying for Onedrive, try Office 365 trial (he uses LibreOffice, has to set his privacy settings again after every couple of weeks after the updates). Earlier this year and the final nail in the coffin was when this Co-Pilot thing he said kept on interfering with his audio programs. To me it looked like an extension out of Edge. Anyway he had enough and wanted to try that modified copy of Windows 10 LTSC that I put on an old Duo Core for him a couple of years ago. Now he is pleased that he is left alone and doesn't just slow down with all that crap in the background when he is working on his stuff.This goes to show that it is ALL about Microsoft and what they want for the mass majority. The mass majority who they think are stupid and confused don't know they doing or what they're doing or want (which is where I think they are effectively calling them stupid.)

author: sarge
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 08:08:50 pm
content: I like your attention to detail. Sucks it has come to this, and why people like me among others chose to stick to linux.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2024, 11:05:53 pm
content: I'd certainly consider using some flavor of *nix--IF I were a geek, if I took perverse pleasure in constantly editing dozens of configuration files, and if I liked spending about half my time tweaking the OS to do what I wanted, rather than just using it.Thanks but no thanks.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2024, 01:57:24 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on October 28, 2024, 11:05:53 pmI did it out of frustration and anger until I made it usable for myself and I do use it a lot.I thought it was over when I made usable 2 years ago for another 8 years until now as I came across these DCH drivers, the issues and here I am once again trying to make that usable. You are absolutely correct. I am no longer enjoying the gift (laptop) that was given to me after all of this.I feel the need to make changes and alter things when they are all of a sudden changed to work against me and set to hinder me in so many ways just like starting with Windows Vista Business that I gave up on at first which was bundled with a Lenovo W700 laptop in 2008 due to the:Stupid breadcrumbs set to fill the address bar with arrows, shortening information and sometimes omitting the drive letters.Folder views changed to tiles or large icons with the filenames hidden automatically when reopening folders all because it had a jpg file in it. Procedure is to go into properties, end tab and change from "all items" to pictures? or videos? then the option appears to unhide file names appears in the menu. Then it happens again some time later.Heavy utilization of hard disk which made it slow (and as if it was doing nothing) but was due to search indexer searching everything and everywhere with no exclusions set and superFetch using it but I didn't know was causing the slowness at the time and just installed a customized copy of Windows 2003 on it for a while.I like things in a certain way before I find I can focus and use them comfortably without making it so much more difficult than it has to be.Windows 10:Folders Search with the stupid "RATINGS" field and in TILE viewAll I need is Details view with fields; "Name", "Type", "Size", "Date Created", "Date Modified" and "path" if searching.Had to use folder bags for that in Windows to as it seems to default.Classic shell now takes care of the hiding the breadcrumbs instead of the breadcrumb killer that use to cause problems with the key so pleased about that.Advanced Appearance settings removed and the title bars bloated.So I copied the registry over from Windows 7 and made a few adjustment which seems to help free up space with small screens.Just noticed this from the screenshots I took:QuoteSo a graphics card settings panel that was "suppose" to provide a simple set of controls and now cannot be used in government and I wonder why?*A little strange to me as it was designed in their own country.Quote from: sarge on October 28, 2024, 08:08:50 pmQuote from: Analog Kid on October 28, 2024, 11:05:53 pmI think 1809 will be my last Microsoft OS and one day I will have no other choice so got to start finding a Linux vendor and see which one I am happy with. I don't want Gnome 3 so it'd be KDE and Plasma turn help turn off all the animations and annoyances that could come with it.When I had a look at the next LTSC build a few years ago and saw the annoying animated skeleton placeholders that flash an annoy that they copied from webpages and also hog up cpu time there on the start menu and panels I gave up on it.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 01:58:22 am
content: Brought some more laptops to have trouble again and can't find the drivers so in the process of looking to find this:https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9plfnlnt3g5g?hl=en-US&gl=USQuote*Nobody asked for it it was Microsoft the FORCED you to do this.**Arrogance/: Advanced thinkers for the mass majority... mass majority = stupid. Not modern, not newer = not trendy = not good = very bad = shouldn't be here... whoever designed the previous design should be blamed. The mass majority DON'T USE settings for anisotropic filtering or sync...***The user is so stupid they had to guess with the old control panel so we removed these setting, explaining how each of these features impacts their experience if they were allowed to adjust them.I don't want many many more features and functions.I want control over things taken away.I am NOT tired of the old control panel. I got tired of this piece of sh*t within the first time it installed late last year where that takes 8 seconds to load and all these other features and functions that do absolutely nothing useful but the one that mattered the most.I couldn't care less how the "'old, boring, corporate-looking' Graphics Control Panel" looked, it served a useful purpose, it did what I wanted to do and no need to change it to an unwanted piece of bloat that appears as a social networking tool. Maybe they should just call it "AN APP" not a control panel as it has these video editing things on it.Note on page:QuoteIt should NOT NEED internet connection.QuoteAbsolutely disgraceful. A control panel should be simple (boring as it may) but functional and should be easy to adjust for disabled/sight affected users without giving them seizures every time they try to use it to adjust the settings.They seem to care more about everything else than the principles of what they are for.I find the new one more corporate looking than the old one with all the social networking launchers on it.It should not be fun being bombarded with rubbish and the settings I want removed.Notice how they use stupid words "‘tongue twister’" to describe how stupid the user is that they find whatever it is difficult.https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Tongue-twistersQuoteThey could have used the word "difficult" instead of introducing more words to describe the issue and going around the houses.I cloned it over but has another variant. It changes to Basic display adapter despite showing the Intel control panel shortcut in the right context menu. The 620 driver works but as soon as I install the driver the shortcut disappears on the right context menu so a whole load of other manual stuff to do. It is Driver 23.20.16.4974 from 25/05/2018.Reviews:QuoteSo rather than ADMIT this, they basically IGNORED/Brushed off everything he said that it doesn't have the things he needs and said that it WILL make it SIMPLER to adjust things and other stuff that the standard previous one won't. Well they don't matter to him like they are trying to defend it.*No I don't want it to "tune" settings for my games and things behind my back with no way to make adjustments like I could before.QuoteWell guess what they were removing it and forgot to remove the setting:QuoteSo they decided that "mass majority" don't use settings to stop dimming for power saving so lets deny them a choice they once had.QuoteThey only seem to focus on how pretty it looks and the lack of settings in the of simplicity to the user.QuoteAll they had to go is keep a limited set of settings that they had before that should not require a whole load of things to adjust.I am surprised it got 4 out of 5 star rating.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 02:55:19 am
content: While I don't disagree with much of what the OP states here, let me explain why the vsync settings are being removed from these interfaces.Application developers decide if vsync is important to their operation or not, if the title is not double buffering, or wants to be absolutely sure tearing is not occurring it may not allow vsync to be disabled. By default vsync is explicitly enabled by most APIs (OpenGL, DirectX, etc) and must be explicitly disabled by the application if it wishes so.The control panel allowing the user to force vsync on or off globally is a hack, a huge hack. It causes the drivers to ignore the application's specific instruction to enable or disable the feature. Some games in the past would actually tie their game loop to the refresh rate (Fallout was notorious for this) and forcing vsync off and allowing the game to run at insane rates would break the game logic in many ways.These days with features like FreeSync and G-Sync, the `vsync` option no longer makes much sense in most cases. In laptops it makes little sense especially with the LCD panels supporting variable refresh rate as a core feature which saves a ton of GPU and panel power consumption, while still yielding the same latency as running without any kind of synchronisation, and without any tearing.While being able to override options like vsync external to the application might be a nice idea, from a technical and standards point of view, it should never have been an option that could be overrided by an external process as it can and does cause undefined behaviour in applications that expect the graphics state to follow the standards.Quote from: MrMobodies on July 16, 2025, 01:58:22 amPlease note that these "tune" settings is a polite way of saying the game developer made some mistakes that cause the game to completely break and the driver needs to implement some workarounds to make the game work properly. You'd be surprised at how many games need patching to fix glaring errors, or re-implementation of extremely poorly performing shaders because the developers relied on the undefined behaviour working on the specific platform they developed it on. It may also be adjusting things to work around silicon/firmware bugs, or improve performance because Intel/NVidia/AMD handle things differently due to their hardware designs being completely different and having different strengths and weaknesses.The control panel is doing a heck of a lot more then most people realise, it's not some extra utility, but rather an extension of the driver to help it perform it's task.Quote from: MrMobodies on July 16, 2025, 01:58:22 amIf a contractor delivers software under a federal contract without the correct commercial‑item markings, the Government can end up with “unlimited rights” under DFARS 227.7203‑5. If you (a reseller, systems integrator, contractor, or downstream customer) pass the binaries to a federal agency without Intel’s own negotiated contract, the agency could argue that FAR/DFARS give it additional rights (source‑code escrow, unlimited reproduction, public‑domain release after a term, etc.). By prohibiting this, it keeps Intel from being dragged into those procurement obligations without their consent.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 05:04:58 am
content: Thank you very much for coming out of blue and explaining the reasons what I couldn't understand very well.I appreciate it as I am no longer frustrated now that I understand.I remembered in the early 2000's when in some games or stuff that either lacked the vsync setting or driver didn't respect it in the game as far back as 3DFX but I noticed the problem more when I switched to Nvidia and found the setting there. Maybe that's why they introduced but make sense it could cause problems as a result if it is forced on when the application had already requested and results in a glitch. I noticed back then when switched off it runs fast with tearing but found it irritating.A legacy feature for a legacy game & stuff/ that was due to be phased out at some point irrelevant to many in this day and age. So have expect more of this sort of stuff happening down the line as things phase out and change.Managed to find the right driver an hour ago. Some are bundled with the new panel, some the old panel and some lack it altogether as I extracted a few of the same driver versions from different sources. It's a Lenovo T490 I picked off ebay a few days ago but pleased to get the driver working with the old Intel Graphics control panel.Thanks again for your help.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 06:46:16 am
content: Yeah these sort of vsync, aliasing, texture filtering..etc settings are essentially overrides to tell the driver to ignore what the application wants to do. They are only there to fix misbehaving legacy applications (or game devs being to lazy to provide a setting in the menus)Even then this is mainly a gaming thing and not many people do gaming on an integrated Intel GPU (tho i will admit they run old games very well). Nvidia is more gaming focused (Well.. apart from AI lately) and will likely still have this well into the future. Tho even Nvidia is working on phasing out the excellent old Nvidia control panel in favor of the new GeForce Experience bloatware crap.Oh and for vsync issues, best thing in my opinion is running the game in bordreless window mode. This forces vsync because the windows internal window compositor is vsynced and it is what draws the borderless window from the games framebufer. This has the added benefit of letting you switch to other windows without the game realizing. If the game runs in fullsreen mode and you want to open another window then windows has to take away exclusive control of the screens framebuffer away from the application and give it back to its window compositor, this causes the 1 second of black screen before you see your desktop, a lot of games don't like having their framebuffer just ripped away from them and occasionally crash or glitch as a result. Windowed mode doesn't need to do that because it gives the game a fake framebuffer in RAM that the game thinks is the real screen framebuffer.But in general laptop drivers are a mixed bag. You often get a better experience on the smaller vendors that don't have the budget/influence to have special customized drivers for their hardware. My laptop is a Ryzen machine from german Schenker/Bestware/XMG. Minimal needed special drivers or bloatware. They also directly sell individual spare parts by contacting support (like battery,keyboard,display..etc) to regular consumers in case it breaks and you want to repair it yourself.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 08:31:39 am
content: You know, i am glad of how much of this stupid fucking bullshit i do not have to bear with by using linux (debian).Stuff suddently just works (whereas with windows i would not be able for example to look at videos at resolutions greater than 1080p... in full screen! whereas the same maximized window not in full screen didn't have problems)7 year old pc, or 13 year old laptop suddently become snappy, especially the laptop is usable for more than light browsing.. i can do actual work on it, that i couldn't do 5 years ago as it struggled to open an empty libreoffice document.And for hardware, provided it's compatible, there is no stupid eula i must accept, no stupid control panel, no castrated driver. All functionality available at will.Printer/scanner just works, no need to install a gigantic app that forces me to be online and accept telemetry and other bullshit on the data i want to print/scan that has to pass through the applicationProgramming experience is much better as more and more tools expect some form of linux to be present. Antimalware no longer crippling me when compiling because it has to check (using a single thread obviously) every single intermediate file.And did i say anything about drivers not being crippled anymore? realtek providing extremely basic drivers for audio on windows, i can't do shit like equalizing, instead on the linux driver is possible. And mandatory windows update every other tuesday no longer makes me waste a morning reverting stuff because it updates firmware and drivers that were blocked, as update provides 3-4 year old drivers (really.) and all bypass techniques at some point stop working.I am begging to have my work laptop to be upgraded to debian as well

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 10:07:09 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 16, 2025, 08:31:39 amLinux is great, but - with some exceptions - the programs (sorry, apps) areterrible.Very few people are willing to pay for Linux apps, so most apps are maintained by volunteers - or teams of volunteers - who also have a day job. Also, most of those volunteers are computer geeks who have no idea about UI design, nor see any need for it becausetheyknow how to use the program. Thus we end up using stuff that looks and feels like it was written 30 years ago - klunky, ugly, obscure. Mostly because itwaswritten 30 years ago.Obviously the big stuff like LibreOffice has sponsorship from some big companies, but there is no-one who makes money by investing a lot in its development, keeping it up to date, and selling licensesen masse.I was using LibreOffice just the other day. I cannot imagine why people recommend it. The UI is 1990s with a half-baked ribbon-alike bodged on top. It doesn't even do text selection properly.If you want a graphics editor for Windows, there are many great choices. I haven't counted them but at least 10 and maybe 20 professional-grade products out there. Probably more. Plus many more niche apps. Modern UIs, modern features. Almost all of them are paid for and produced by companies like Corel, Serif, Adobe, etc, who charge money and make a profit. These companies compete by continuously refining and improving their products, because they want your money.Has anyone tried using Thunderbird for emails? It's awful! Complicated, messy, ugly. Luckily there are alternatives - I might check out Geary.In the Linux world there is very little competition because very few outfits make a profit from Linux apps. Therefore there is far less incentive to keep pushing the products forwards. And as I say, a lot of them are maintained as a hobby by solo geeks who haven't the time, the inclination or the design skills, anyway.I'm actually rather a fan of Linux (I run Mint), but I don't use it as my daily driver because I really,reallydislike the apps.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 10:24:06 am
content: I've been using cross platform applications for years so it's a non issue for me most of the time.> Libre OfficeHave you tried using microsoft office in the past few years? God, excel is so incredibly annoying - And bloated -I'll keep using libre, thank you. UI has a couple of really annoying things (like, in Calc there is not a way to override the default spreadsheet. The template you set is actually loaded on the newly created document.. but if you create a new document from right click it will have the program's default instead of yours)But it looks the same between OS's. Also, i like the minimal approach, wish it would be even more minimal and not that looks-like-what-qt-forced-you-in-qt4 that you can see in software like cppcheck>ThunderbirdI concour, it's not good. Threading sucks. But i don't use emails that much to careLooks the same between platforms>BrowserLooks the same between platforms>Image editingGIMP is adequate for my needs. Inkscape too (and both are becoming really refined) when i have to design SVG stuff for App resources. I recently found out about Pinta, which from what i gather is a fork of Paint.Net, and the ui is much better imho.All the above look the same between platforms.> KicadLooks the same between platforms> VSCode, MPlabx, ...Looks the same between platformsAnd this is all software i need for work on a daily basis.I understand your point about looks - and consistency maybe? - and i partly agree, it's just that the software i use is not affected by this problem, in my opinion... or is good enough so i don't care, the alternative is to bear with windows or macos.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 12:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 16, 2025, 10:24:06 amThat's an interesting list of Linux apps. You are right about browsers looking the same between platforms. I've checked out Pinta and it looks promising - I need to spend longer with it.Thunderbird, KiCAD, LibreOffice... Yes, they look just as bad on Windows as they do on Linux, which is why I won't use them, with the exception of KiCAD, which I consider to be a UI disaster zone, but it has no real alternatives that aren't even worse.As for MS Office, I am with you 100 percent! I hate the UI. I hate the File|Save dialog that takes up the entire window and leaves you puzzling how to save a file somewhere that's not in 'Documents'. I hate the Print dialog. In fact, I think I hate nearly all of it. I'm the one person on the planet who really likes the ribbon UI, but now it looks flat, the icons are obscure, and loads of functionality has been hidden away because MS thinks users shouldn't haveanylearning curve. They have failed: it's harder to use now than it ever was.But I have a marvellous solution! I run MS Office 2013, which is brilliant (the best version ever, in my opinion)*. The ribbon UI is fully sorted and bedded in, but it was before Microsoft's obsession with OneDrive and 'The Cloud'. It is before MS dumped and rewrote the text handling engine, so all the old text selection tricks work great.My favourite version of Windows was W7, and I run that in a VM. I wish it could be my daily driver, but there are incompatibilities with some modern apps, especially around high dpi stuff. Once settled, W10 was a good successor. Not as good as W7, but pretty good. W11 is yet another step downhill. Stardock Start11 has made it a bit more tolerable.So, I'm no fan of present day Microsoft apps, even as I'm not a fan of Linux apps. As for the OS: I was totally "at one" with W7. Linux is a good OS, although ultimately not as easy as Windows.*Not strictly part of MS Office, but I use and love Visio for diagramming. However, the ribbon UI wasn't fully implemented until version 2016, which is the one I'm using. It's the one Office-type program where the ribbon UI is an ill fit. The best Visio ever was the last one before the ribbon (I can't remember which version that was), but it has to run in an XP virtual machine.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 12:42:45 pm
content: The point is.I've dabbled with linux since when i was in middle school... i don't know, was it 2003? I remember seeing the article in a linux magazine about ubuntu, and that canonical would send a cd FOR FREE! (i checked, it was 2005)and when i received it.. wow. i dug out the old family pentium pc and experimented with various distros - especially one our library had ADSL so i could download distros)But i was young, i only used the pc for playing games.Then when i started using it for actuall stuff i got a mac, but from time to time i dabbled with linux. Installed in the old pc, run in a vm.. then delete because i got bored with the experiment.To me it really became productive to the average user about 3-4 years ago, i was spinning up yet another debian VM to test some stuff but this time it was debian 12. Holy crap how polished it looked. Then i looked into it a bit more and when a windows update decided to break my high resolution experience i bit the bullet. Debian 12, now 13, has been my daily driver for a couple of years. I don't intend to switch back.Being more and more into free software, as i'm disgusted with the current interned, and current SaaS everything also helped, but i've seen that the recent trend is to actually listen to users coming from windows/linux, instead of dismissing them. Look at how much blender, gimp, inkscape, libreoffice, even kicad have improved UI wise. Just a couple of years ago the devs would have been adamant in not listening to you to cater to the very vocal minority in the forums. We are moving in a good direction.

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 01:09:39 pm
content: I have a move to Linux scheduled for when Windows 10 finally goes out of support for good. I have used Linux for hosting stuff for years and it is great for that, but using it as a daily driver desktop is a big jump.I still think Win 7 is the best OS that Microsoft made so far, but Win 10 became bearable once they focused on Win 11 and so stopped constantly fiddling with Win 10 and just let it be a OS that runs your programs. Now Win 11 looks like a glorified Beta test where things constantly change and break, while outright missing functionality that has been in previous Windows versions for decades. But now they expect to just force people to move into this half baked Win 11 even tho most people are still actively using Win 10. If you made an actually good OS then people would willingly move on to it.However going to Linux does not mean only using free open source software. As people said above a lot of this software is not very good, admittedly it is getting better, but we are not there yet. Id definitely keep using a fair bit of commercial software on Linux.My plan is to continue using some windows software on linux trough compatibility layers, then for things that absolutely won't run (or takes a linux noob too long to figure out how to make it work) i want to run a Windows VM with IOMMU GPU passtrough so that i get full graphics performance. This stuff is fairly new but will hopefully mature in the next year.Also SteamOS might release some time soon and i am hopeful that this is the breakthrough that Linux needs to standardize all the gazilions of distros, package managers, desktrop enviorments..etc into one thing that the majority uses, so that things will finally "just work" on linux too even for non technical users that don't even know what root is. The "just works" part is why people like Windows so much.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 01:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: Berni on July 16, 2025, 01:09:39 pmMh, i think there is too much hype over steam os.Sure valve and the steamdeck gave a tremendous push forward towards better game compatibility, i can just double click on almost any game and install it without problems. Even running better than when windows was on my machine.But i'm not using proton or lutris.. i just have wine and double click the installer.Win VM + passthrough is something i was actually considering for stuff like VB6 or some windows only crap i must use for work which i don't know how well is going to run on linux (like busmaster, bwm ista, or deploying / testing VB6 applications which is still need to do unfortunately)But sales/usage numbers are not really that highStandardization.. maybe streamlining? Arch/Manjaro/Steam OS for games (i tried, but it was really unstable. I finally understood the "Krashes" meme), Debian/Ubuntu for productivity (Debian is really, really stable) plus a small number or purpose specific distros such as openwrt/proxmox... It's already enough choice for me, i never considered anything else (i dabbled with but never considered. Give me debian any day, with backports enabled of course)Me, i always liked Win 10's flat desktop bar, the right amount of flat. KDE 5 and 6 default theme is basically the same (albeit much more customizable if i want. I just didn't need to)Explorer in windows 10 is also peak explorer, to me. It only misses tags to be complete. KDE instead should really focus on improving or replacing dolphin... that is probably the only piece of it left in the 90s mentality.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 02:23:04 pm
content: QuoteGetting a games console made more sense for me,the cost of the xbox was less than the cost of upgrading my machine,plus its a dam sight quieter without the graphics card and psu fans whirling away.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 06:36:02 pm
content: Same reason why i got a switch, all the old games i cared to play run smootly on my old PC, and all the console games / newer games run on the switchbut it's undeniable that valve / steamdeck / steamos had a very positive impact on windows emulation

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2025, 05:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on July 16, 2025, 02:23:04 pmIf the games consoles overheats/break down you could buy another or mess about trying to heat it or reball. Then there a problems with some of them that serializes things like the DVD drive that I remembered on one occasion where I had to swap the mechanical stuff over a drive that was the exact same model number. On a desktop PC If the graphics card breaks down I could just swap it out easily and add extra cooling.Quote from: Berni on July 16, 2025, 06:46:16 amI did actually remember trying that in windowed mode and would have compromised but it was still showed tearing and was too quick, it would go fast and faster (inconsistent) at certain scenes but strange it didn't do it on the OS when say dragging windows around.It would be nice for graphics card makers to keep the manual settings for these legacy and misbehaving stuff where you add it manually instead of globally now I know it could cause trouble for other games and applications.QuoteJoke: Did they get envious of Intel's new CommandCenter and now want to race to the bottom too?