Probe finds 'flood' of fake military parts from China in U.S. equipment - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 11:16:05 am
content: Pro

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 11:24:25 am
content: Yes, if it happens to the military, imagine what happens to us with much less regulated purchasing controls, albeit not as large a volume either.The simplest thing we can do is buy from authorized distributors to insure traceability to the manufacturer. A less assuring way is and more tedious is test your components to insure it lives up to key specifications of the item. If it passes, it could still be counterfeit [ i.e., salvaged, used and relabeled] but it likely will work.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 03:40:20 pm
content: yeah the "supply chain". and who's supplying the aircraft? direct from china?

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 05:16:11 pm
content: I have had fake Chinese goods. I bought an electric razor that said made in China on the out side and on the packaging it was written very large "MADE IN CHINA" when it went wrong, the batteries would not hold a charge I took it apart. Every item inside that had a label, the motor the batteries and the board said made in India.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 05:32:25 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on May 23, 2012, 04:30:40 pm+1As long there is a market and most important thing "the buyer", those Chinese will never care, also its not like they can force down the throat of the buyers this fake stuffs, cause for sure the buyers ain't that stupid either.Actually the root of the problem is simple, too many middle-middle-middle.<so on>..man. So the food cycle usually started in this following sequences :1. Those mammoth sized military contractors, these are the big boys that can treat senators like a pet2. Senators at the budget comittee3. Bozos at whitehouse and including those in pentagon as well......down the lines at lower food chain....xx. sub-contractorxx. sub-sub-contractorxxx. sub-sub-sub-contractor....xxxx. Home industries somewhere in ChinaIts that simple & easy.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 05:48:44 pm
content: Thank those who thought they could cut a fraction less on cost by outsourcing to the cheapest subbie. Add to that the lack of any US industry and this happens.Only way is to make it all in house again.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 05:59:14 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 23, 2012, 05:48:44 pmYeah, its true, but alas, the bad news is currently all boys & girls in the house never dream to be blue collar worker, heck, even they hate to be white collar workers unless they're those hot shots at Wall Street or lawyers.Rest of them are so eager to be next Lady Gaga or Justin Bieber like creatures or the current best role and model, Mark Zuckerberg.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 06:11:19 pm
content: Yes, the know how is fast disappearing. How many know how to do basic assembly these days ( aside from on this forum of course). SA used to have a pretty good electronics manufacturing industry, mostly due to historic reasons, but it was pretty capable. Some still remains.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 06:18:39 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 23, 2012, 05:48:44 pmI agree.Another thing that could have at least given the DoD notice, would to have put incoming components/assy's through a thorough test phase prior to installation/use in manufacturing as has been done in the past (random samples; functionality to destructive testing).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 06:29:08 pm
content: Test is only for the first batch, then it is done infrequently. SOP as otherwise the OEM would not be able to afford all the kickbacks they offer to the procurement officials to get the juicy contracts.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 06:58:31 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 23, 2012, 06:29:08 pmMaybe it's different at other places, but at work we do lot acceptance tests all the way through production, which includes some pretty robust testing. From what I've seen, it's mostly trying to buy obsolete components or last time buys where people get stung. Interestingly, one recent one where BAE supplied counterfeit components to Boeing, they paid for testing which then wasn't done. Worrying stuff...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 07:04:47 pm
content: Like I said, only initial test, then "probably ok"..........testing costs money, and the first lot was ok, so why? ( beancounter logic)Not that this is new, been around since the first outsourcing in the bronze age. Just that now the work is blatant, and the punishment is a slap on the wrist.

author: DaveW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 07:19:40 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 23, 2012, 07:04:47 pmProbably ok? Blimey, not on anything I've worked on. 100% functional testing across temperature & vibration, sampled testing across climate, EMC etc. as a baseline. There are many faults, but lack of money for testing isn't one of them

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2012, 11:29:14 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on May 23, 2012, 06:29:08 pmThat logic (and worse) is certainly possible with consumer products, but not so much for military contractors in my experience. Primarily due to the need to cover ones proverbial arse in case of a problem.There's serious money on the line if they screw up. So when I worked at Lockheed, my job meant I was the guy who climbed into the component shipments to select random samples and had them testedbeforethey were ever allowed to be used on the assembly line (only time I wasn't behind a desk filling out the reports). Once that testing was complete and if they passed, the records and samples were placed in secure storage for safe keeping (proof if there's ever a problem), and the remaining parts cleared for use in manufacturing. Assy testing followed, and was also quite thorough. Again, out of the same necessity.So quite a bit of money was spent on this, but compared to the income, it was paltry in comparison, and was taken into account when making the bid.