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Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Nooby
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 02:52:49 pm
content: Greetings to all you helpful people.If I ask dumb questions, my avatar should give you a clue why that is.I did have a look around to see if my question had been asked a hundred times already but oddly enough it seems not to be the case. I am looking to get a scope as for a trial project but am totally confused about what is good and what is not so good e.g. the Siglent SDS1102CNL is loved by some but slagged by others.What is it for?Several different projects, one of which handheld/portable would make life easier but not absolutely necessary and much higher price plus small screen make this option a bit theoretical.I have a half decent background with electronics but it's a looooooong time ago in the days that a scope was simply not affordable outside pro environment. That means my first scope will have to be fairly user friendly like apparently the Siglent SDS1102CNL scores quite well on.First basic question would be about brands: are there any that are decidedly good value for money or for one reason or the other better to stay away from? I suppose the same question could be asked but then limited to specific models.Are there sources (inside this forum or somewhere else) that I should read in order to ask better questions?Thanks for reading and sorry if I made your roll your eyes.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 04:19:30 pm
content: If you are looking for handheld then look at the MicSig tbook TO1000 series scopes. Unlike other portable oscilloscopes these are full featured oscilloscope which you can also use as a bench oscilloscope.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 08:45:04 pm
content: Quote from: Nooby on August 11, 2018, 02:52:49 pmAs far as I see on all Siglent websites and my price list SDS1102CNL is not available now, only from China sellers and only the updated CNL+ version with LAN and higher resolution display.I've sold quite a few in past years but the CML+ is a better choice because of much greater memory depth. However at 279 Euro and for a little more SDS1202X-E is now the best choice @ 339 Euro.Basic scope usage is no different to any past Siglents but the capabilities are far further advanced with higher sensitivity and BW just to name the obvious.The X-E models now offer the best bang for buck from the Siglent range.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2018, 11:12:49 pm
content: I'd also look at the price bracket just above that, though the CML+ seems to be modernized somewhat, the CNL is a much older design and is part of a group of scopes you can still get new on the lowest end, but which really don't compete with "current" low end scopes. the SDS1202X-E or SDS1104X-E are some better budget end choices for an all around more capable scope, and something like Rigol's DS1054Z is a standby recommendation around the boards for an inexpensive, capable, bandwidth hackable scope that now comes with a full set of options, though the architecture is somewhat older than those Siglent options.Handheld scopes are either going to be more expensive or less capable than the benchtop counterparts, but there are some reasonable options. Micsig is a common recommendation, but Siglent's got a few, and I believe GW Instek has some options that could work.

author: Nooby
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:29:49 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 11, 2018, 08:45:04 pmI saw a mint condition 1102 for about £150 which seemed like a good amount for a first "try out" scope. I searched for the 1202X-E and didn' find an "in the hand" price much under £400.Quote from: tautech on August 11, 2018, 08:45:04 pmMy first trials with the scope are going to be quite limited in terms of performance, even allowing that in real life things always turn out 'to need more', I don't see my requirements coming much over 50 Mhz. What I do know from experience with other types of test gear is that beginners get much more out of a less impressive spec instrument that is easy to use than out of a much more expensive kit that really takes some studying.One part that really appealed to me is a review I saw where the guy demonstrating the scope said the 1102 was really easy to get the settings right via the 'auto' option which can then be easily adjusted to get exactly what you want.I am totally on my own here in RL with no more help than what I can find on the forum here and some tutorial documents and videos so ease of use is a major factor, much more so than spectacular performance.Are all Siglents 'user friendly' or does it vary a lot?Do lower spec Siglents differ much in use or is it pretty much the same throughout the range with just more muscle?

author: Nooby
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:36:56 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 11, 2018, 04:19:30 pmI like the 'big' screen and the size/portability.Is this a bit of a niche brand? I only found one company so far in the UK that sell them.What is 'ease of use' of this one compared to my original example of the SDS1102 Siglent? Bear in mind that I'm NOT like you and know as much about scopes as you know about open heart surgery and that's only if I'm lucky.

author: Nooby
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 01:43:36 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on August 11, 2018, 11:12:49 pmAt this stage that is really not an option and I very much doubt I would have any use for a higher spec for quite a while if ever apart from the better displays on more expensive models.The project is just an experiment and even if it all works far beyond expectations, the technical requirements are unlikely to be very high. From a rough estimate I'd say even a 10Mhz scope would be enough for most of what I do so even if I am far too optimistic, 50 to 100 would be ample.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 03:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: Nooby on August 12, 2018, 01:36:56 pmThe biggest difference is knobs versus touch screen. Other then that the TO1000 is pretty much the same as any other oscilloscope in that price class. Ofcourse there are differences between special features like protocol decoding, FFT length, math, input filtering, etc. If you have specific needs in that area you need to check the user datasheet and user manuals. Personally I like touch screens.

author: cprosser
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 05:10:52 pm
content: I just recently went though something similar. I’m coming back to hobby electronics after a decade of not doing much. I ended up with the Siglent 1104X-E. That was because in my most recent project I needed to trigger on I2C and look at an analog signal at the same time.One thing that caught me off guard when evaluating DSOs was sample rate. The analog specs of 100MHz are based on the -6dB point, but you can still pick up plenty of energy beyond that. So the recommendations I found said you should look for 4-5x the analog specs in terms of sample rate. A 100MHz scope you would want with 400-500M Samples/sec.In terms of user friendliness, I have found my Siglent easy to use after watching a few walk through videos online. But I build software for a living, so I’m used to fighting crappy UX.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2018, 09:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: Nooby on August 12, 2018, 01:29:49 pm150 quid would be a fair price a CNL these days.Quote from: Nooby on August 12, 2018, 01:29:49 pmAll modern DSO's offer Autosetup but you at least have the advantage of prior scope usage so you'll use it for a bit then revert to 'driving' a scope. Manual setup improves knowledge and understanding better than using shortcuts.You'll always get assistance here on the forum and the more info you offer helps us give good guidance. Screenshots are great.QuoteThe more features added require more understanding of them and that in itself becomes 'non-user friendly' for the novice. On the other hand the vast array of features now available in entry level DSO's make for capabilities to 'grow into'. In using the power of a DSO, the most important spec is memory depth and an absolute minimum is now thought of as 2Mpts that CML+ offers. (CNL only 40 Kpts)Of Siglent's current lineup the 4ch X-E's due to their shared vertical controls (multiplexed) offer the toughest challenge for the scope novice and while some grasp it quickly others take some little time to become proficient with shared controls. This the primary reason why I suggested SDS1202X-E as it still has individual vertical controls in this small form-factor.However as cprosser and others have found, of the entry level range the 4ch X-E's currently offer the most scope 'to grow into'.Initially CNL was a good seller for me then CML but now the X-E's are the most attractive for a variety of reasons....mem depth, LAN, FFT, Decode, fast processor, etc.But I will add, a competent user can get results with very basic equipment.