REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 12:30:18 pm
content: Here are my first impressions and review of the Rigol DS2072(plus added Sample Rate, Segment Number, Fastest Update Rates, 56MPt Acquistion Time Table, FFT Ranges, and High Res Bandwidths)Firmware bugs / instructions for locating firmware version number / FW download links / instructions for upgrading/downgrading in a following post belowDS2000 hacks and keygensSorry about the image quality, but I still don't have an HD camera. Hopefully, now that I've finally gotten a DSO I want to keep, perhaps it can be next on my list of purchasesEdit:A couple of things I forgot to mention in the review:First - to address two things which Dave mentioned as annoyances in his 'Playing Around' video:1) The buttons which are angled at the top - This didn't bother me at all; I've only hit Run/Stop accidentally one time so I guess I rest my hand in a slightly different way then Dave.2) The dim LED light on the Channel/Decode select buttons - Dave is correct about this; the LEDs are rather dim but somehow my eyes became accustomed to spotting the difference between them on or off - and then I never thought about it again.Secondly - to mention one more very clever detail that Rigol added that I (in my limited experience with DSOs) haven't seen before - the 'Clear' button (right alongside 'Auto, 'Run/Stop' and 'Single'. Given the amount of info you can jam on the screen in terms of Math, Reference waves, recalled traces, tables, graphs and decode information, it's great to have a big accessible button devoted to nothing but wiping the screen.Edit2:I just wanted to mention that some of the features I thought were great might be SOP on higher-end DSOs - but since I'm late getting into DSOs (just been using analog scopes all my life) my review is from the perspective of someone new to the game - and only familiar with the lower cost models.Also, I don't have the required equipment (or some of the specialized knowledge) to run serious bandwidth tests or to check channel separation, timebase accuracy, etc. I will leave those things to others. From my experience with Rigol so far, although they might not be the most open and responsive company to their customers, they appear to deliver what they advertise - so unless/until I hear otherwise, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that the product is operating within it's published specs. As far as I can tell (noise level, etc) everything appears very good.Edit3:Rigol DS2000 series - sample rate for each selectable sample length:Edit4:Rigol DS2000 series - maximum number of segments which can be recorded with each sample length:Edit5:Rigol DS2000 series - acquisition time when using full 56MPt sample length:Edit6:Rigol DS2000 series - comparing sample rates and waveform update rates of 56M vs AUTO/14MB at lower time base settings:Edit7:Rigol DS2000 series - waveform update rates of the DS2000 @ 14kPts/AUTO (single / dual channel - vectors / dots) - measured using a 1MHz sine wave input to channel 1.(Chart has been removed until new one can be developed for latest FW. Rigol has substantially improved many rates at lower time base settings.)Edit8:Rigol DS2000 series - FFT range at each time base setting (thanks to Teneyes):Edit9:Rigol DS2000 series - Bandwidths of DSO when in High Res mode:Edit10:To take advantage of the power of the scope, I started writing software for it (and createda new thread for downloads). Attached is an example (sweep.gif) of something easy to create with the new UltraVision DSOs from Rigol: an animation. It can change the way we communicate captured oscilloscope data to each other.

author: Yaksaredabomb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 02:04:34 pm
content: Thanks for the review! It was great to see it in action and a few of the features like the graphing and more complex waveform test that really stand out. The testing of its waveform capture rate was also really interesting, to find its "sweet spot" and see how it scaled so linearly with memory depth. Overall a very useful review.Jacob

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 02:14:25 pm
content: Method to Check FW Ver# or Upgrade/Downgrade FW plus FW Links (bottom of post)Known Firmware Bugs/Issues (of the last two firmware releases /red indicates latest FW version available)2)The way the scope handles intensity grading at time bases <= 50ns/div when two channels are enabled with Normal Sweep is not the same as all other modes - it feels incongruous and incorrect.[FW v.01.01.00.02 / FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]14)When the RS-232 baud rate is set to AUTO 57600, it is incorrect. When set to USER 57600, it operates correctly.[FW v.01.01.00.02]15)Bus decoding does not decode the full ASCII set. Missing characters:[ . , : ; - _ ! $ % & / ( ) = ? ] - everything between square brackets (except spaces).[FW v.01.01.00.02]16)ANTI-ALIASING does not prevent waveform aliasing to any degree, although it can remove someimagealiasing (e.g. moire patterns) under certain conditions.[FW v.01.01.00.02 / FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]17)There is a visible offset from center position when using AC-coupled Triggers (including filtered LF and HF) at lower time bases (<= 2us/div), as well as serious jitter with certain settings.[FW v.01.01.00.02 / FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]18)There is a bug when using DOTS mode with AUTO/14M/56M memory depths @ >= 5us/div. It affects the waveform update rate (much reduced) - and can also affect the visible display of the waveform.[FW v.01.01.00.02 / FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]19)When in HighRes mode and reading display memory from the DSO with SCPI, if the time base is <= 20us, the DSO returns 1398 bytes instead of 1400.[FW v.01.01.00.02 / FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]20)When reading display memory with SCPI while the DSO is STOPped and zooming out, the DSO returns (correctly) a decreasing number of display memory bytes until < 6, and then it incorrectly starts sending 1400 bytes every time (a nonsense waveform) instead of 2 (a single line).[FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]21)Log() function in MATH -> Advanced -> Expression doesn't work.[FW v.02.01.00.03]22)All SCPI commands related to CAN triggering appear to be missing in the latest FW.[FW v.02.01.00.03 /FW v.03.00.01.03]=====================================To get the full firmware version info from the DSO, follow these instructions:Go to the Trigger menu and set Edge trigger.While keeping the Trigger menu open, you are going to use the 6th and 7th right-side menu buttons as follows:Press the  buttons one after anotherquickly.Then check additional info under System -> System Info.You should see something like:Software version: 00.01.01.00.02Hardware version: 1.0.1.0FPGA version:SPU 03.01.02WPU 00.06.00CCU 12.29.00MCU 00.05If you DON'T see this detailed info = start again, and press those 4 buttonsfaster.To escape from this mode, press again  while inside Trigger menu- or reboot the scope.=====================================Firmware links:FW#00.00.01.00.05FW#00.01.00.00.03FW#00.01.01.00.02FW#00.02.01.00.03FW#00.03.00.01.03FW#00.03.01.00.04=====================================For those planning to upgrade/downgrade firmware:Do the upgrade ONLY during bootup - not from the GUI/Menus/OS asking for file/etc. or you might lock up the scope - losing any trial options you have remaining - and requiring you to do the upgrade again anyway using the method listed below:You do this by using two hands when booting up - one thumb on the 'Power On' switch - one thumb on the 'Help' button. When youpress 'Power On', all of the scopeLEDs will light for ONE SECOND- during that brief period, you mustPRESSANDLET GO of the 'Help' button.It can be a little tricky, but if it works, bootup will stop before the Rigol logo with the 'SINGLE' button lit (if it doesn't, turn off power and try again until you get it). Then insert the USB stick with the file on it. The CH1 LED will flash as the DSO loads the file.Once updating is finished, several of the LEDs will light up - and all flashing, etc. will stop. That means it's finished, so you can remove the USB stick and reboot - but please take notice of the following:Note:Rigol has changed the the structure of unit settings stored in FRAM, so if you have upgraded/downgraded between the major versions of v.01 & v.02 (i.e. v.01.XX.XX.XX to v.02.XX.XX.XX - or vice-versa), it's a good idea to hold in the left-menu F6 button (sixth gray button down on left side of LCD) during the first reboot after loading (to clear FRAM) - otherwise the DSO can hang when switching between various menu items.Finally, check your firmware version using the method listed above.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 03:01:03 pm
content: I am still thinking of a Rigol 2000 or higher as a second scope (have the OWON SDS7102), mainly for the wfs/sThe 2 features I'd miss (unless I hack it) are battery backup and VGA op, which I depend on.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 03:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: jneumann on October 30, 2012, 02:04:34 pmThanks Jacob.IMO, there is nothing about this DSO that says 'Made in China' - except the silk-screened legend on the backFrom the layout of the screen and front panel - to the UI design and feature selection - to the faint rumble of the cooling fan- it looks and feels 100% like a quality-made Western product. Given this - and it's massive feature list - I don't see anything else currently on the market that gives you anywhere close to the bang-per-buck.I don't think anyone who has used the Rigol 1000 series or the Owon SDS series or the Hantek DSO5000 series - and then tried this scope - could possibly argue against the vast difference in using this scope.Quote from: digsys on October 30, 2012, 03:01:03 pmYes, I can understand the need for occasional portability. I have a battery-powered Tektronix 212 analog scope for portable work - and although it's BW is small, it's double-insulated and can do floating measurements up to 600V above ground.As far as the VGA option goes - I have to say it was one of those features (with the Owon) that was better in theory than in actual practice. Seeing a blown-up 800x600 image on a modern high-res LCD display looked vaguely video-arcadish - although for teaching purposes (i.e. projection) it seems necessary.For me, better than VGA-out would be good software which extracts the waveform data and displays it in a window on a high-res screen. I haven't tried this yet, but the DS2000 seems much faster at transferring data off-scope, so I'm hoping to write efficient software which will do just this.

author: drieg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 04:04:33 pm
content: Great review, thanks!

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 04:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: drieg on October 30, 2012, 04:04:33 pmThank you - for the great service and after-sales support with my questions and comments. I'm just happy that I could finally make a overwhelmingly positive review of a DSO - it would have been terrible to be disappointed a fourth time in a row

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 04:39:10 pm
content: ds2072 $899http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS2072.htmlds2202 $1835http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS2202.htmlthats more than doubled the price. hmmm, i dont know what caught mr drieg into here after all this while, hmmm.i'm not sure i can afford the 2072 unless maybe some interesting event occurs

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 05:04:28 pm
content: To new or prospective owners of the DS2000 wondering about 'restarting' trial options:or other hacks: check the following thread

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 05:45:30 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on October 30, 2012, 03:01:03 pmHave you looked at the 4000 series? They have VGA output on the back.I use the VGA port on my Tek all the time - I have a 17" LCD on my bench which is much bigger and clearer than the scope's own built-in display.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 06:04:54 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on October 30, 2012, 03:01:03 pmJust out of curiosity, I checked the published power specs:Owon SDS7000/8000 series:<24WHantek DSO5000 series:<30WRigol DS1000 series:<50WRigol DS2000 series:<50WAgilent DSOX2000 series:<100W

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 06:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 30, 2012, 05:04:28 pmno i mean double the price of the ds2202 200MHz scope. i know this color grading, spi serial capable dso, big screen etc is a different game compared to the 1052e. i was wondering what are the differences other than price between 2072 and 2202? is there hardware difference? they are all 2GSps.Quote from: marmad on October 30, 2012, 05:04:28 pmyeah i'll keep working around on that nonsense limitbut not so frequently. i can see your work more seriously on arbitrary waves. with that nice color grading high wf/s rate, i wonder if it can do some freq domain like plot? like this tektroniks tds2024?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 06:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2012, 06:24:32 pmIf I am understanding that video correctly (probably not) you can do the same thing on your 1052E. He just matched the sweep generator sweep time to the scope full screen sweep time. and used external trigger from the sweep gen to trigger the scope. It is only a frequency domain plot because he correlated the sweep generator frequency sweep time to the horizontal time per division of the scope.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 07:25:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 30, 2012, 06:24:32 pmYes, the price does seem to go up rather dramatically. I can think of three possible reasons:1) They are undercharging for the DS2072 to get a foothold with the scope in the market.2) They are hoping to make as much as possible from the higher BW scopes before a hack leaks out and siphons off part of that market share.3) There is a REAL difference inside (least likely).QuoteI'll try to look into that tomorrow.Quote from: robrenz on October 30, 2012, 06:56:33 pmI'm not sure which part you're talking about: the Measurement part (using a logarithmic sweep) - or - the SCPI part (using a noise signal)?

author: tlu
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 07:35:02 pm
content: Hi Marmad,Excellent review once again. Do you think it is worth the extra $300 to get the 100Mhz model? I'm about to pull the trigger on this unit.tlu

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 30, 2012, 09:47:36 pm
content: Quote from: AndyCActually I did, AND they also have a Battery option !! Definitely Interesting. Prices get a bit high at this end.Quote from: marmandNever had good experience with data ports, for speed. If you get to try it, can you post your findings?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 01:43:08 am
content: Quote from: marmad on October 30, 2012, 07:25:43 pmI was talking about the video that Mechatrommer posted here. AFIK the 1052E can do the exact same thing.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 05:47:45 am
content: yes probably 1052e can do, but i never saw it can do a nice color grading like that like agilent infinity vision did too. may be in PC software doable with many many times of capture.@rob, yes i'm aware of the external trigger, but since i never do it i'm quite sceptic what kind of trigger the fg produced, is it the usual "synch out" signal or a pulse at each frequency sweep, gotta figure that one later out my selfbut as i said, i doubt 1052e can do the nice color grade like that.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 11:19:48 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 31, 2012, 05:47:45 amJust watched it... the trigger out from the AWG is a single pulse at the start of the sweep - that's why he set the scopes timebase*div to be exactly equal to the length of the sweep. Each time the sweep restarts it will trigger the scope - which will then collect another batch of sample points during the sweep time and add it to the screen.QuoteHe does mention in the video that they just set persistence to 5 seconds; it looks like you might be able to do it on almost any scope.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 12:04:18 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 31, 2012, 11:19:48 ampersistence to 5 seconds? not with 1052eit only none or infinite. we'll get color "flat" not color "grade" i can do it in software though but slow. ok enough for today's lesson thanks, back to topic everybody

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2012, 12:57:22 pm
content: One more thing before back to topic. In that application of looking at the filter response, the envelope is all that matters anyway. Digital phosphor like effects within the envelope are irrelevant. I did a slow sine modulation, 1 cycle 5 seconds period of of a 1khz sinewave carrier on the 1052E and it shows the envelope nicely. Ok Mecha I am done now

author: EV
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 05:45:24 pm
content: I try to attach two pictures:R = 4.7 kOhm, C = 1 nF and 1 horisontal division is 10 kHz.

author: Dread
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 07:11:22 pm
content: It's a nice scope but Dave’s last video showed the main problem with the DS2072 and that is no upgrade path for Bandwidth. 70MHz is just too low for most people! I have uses on a monthly basis that push my needs up to the 150Mhz region and I suspect that many other eevblogers also have need of BW higher than 70Mhz. I also really dislike all those trial features disappearing just as you get use to them. Overall I suspect very few 2000 series owners really end up making an $850 purchase but instead end up spending much more money, that low price is just bait to get you in the door, after that I suspect most people end up spending between $1200 to the $2000 plus by time they get finished.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 08:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: Dread on November 03, 2012, 07:11:22 pm1) Most scopes don't have upgradeable BW.2) Bandwidth is just one feature in the assortment of features which make a scope useful for someone.3) Even so, as mentioned already more than once on this blog, there will be 100M and 200M BW upgrade options available eventually for the DS2000.QuoteYou would prefer that they didn't give you any free time with the trial options? Even without buying the option package for additional triggers, this scope has 9 built-in triggers compared to 4 on the Agilent 2000X or Owon SDS. Even without paying for the 56M of memory, this scope already has 14M.I also noticed elsewhere that you wrote about the DS2000:Quote from: Dread on October 13, 2012, 06:53:27 pmIn fact, the scope has a very nice zoom - much better then the one on the Owon.I don't know, Dread, you seem to be on a mission to denigrate this scope - and I'm not quite sure why. Maybe to convince yourself that you made the right choice with a recent DSO purchase? All I can say is, as someone who has owned both an SDS scope and this one - they are not even in the same league.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2012, 10:17:32 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on November 03, 2012, 08:25:51 pmunfortunately DS1052E has. from 50Mhz to 100MHz. so it is a hope the 2000X also has. if rigol want this model to go boom, they should leakout some informationsQuote from: marmad on November 03, 2012, 08:25:51 pmbandwidth is the main feature. others are mostly bells and whistles that follow. YMMV.