eevBLAB 106 - ChatGPT AI Has Changed EVERYTHING - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 08:56:12 pm
content: ChatGPT has changed everything in the space of a month.2023 will be the year of Conversational Search and computer code generation.And how MidJourney and DALL-E have rendered artists obsolete, or at least turned ANYONE into a great and capable artist.This video thumbnail was generated in seconds by Dave who has ZERO artistic skills.Why The Chaser is setting up a futile paywall to stop the AI invastion.https://chaser.com.au/uncategorized/why-the-chaser-is-going-to-put-up-a-paywall/

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 09:18:49 pm
content: Maybe it's time to let the robots "have a turn".I mean, look at what the hoomans have done to the place in the past few years.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 09:31:16 pm
content: Thanks for making the video, I enjoyed watching it, and learnt a fair bit about it. Those automatically generated pictures, are just amazing.Even though, I've known about it (ChatGPT, and some picture generating thing(s)), for quite some time and played around with it, in the current and earlier release(s), some time ago.I'm both very exited/interested in this ChatGPT (and related stuff), and sometimes/somewhat/partly frightened/scared by it, at the same time.I wonder how it will affect people's employment situation, as time goes on. So many peoples jobs, are potentially on the line. But I suppose it is a bit like, when people perhaps thought that wordprocessors, might/would replace secretaries/typists in offices.In some respects it has. How many office workers, use an old mechanical or electrical typewriter these days?But there are still plenty of office workers, it is just the nature of the jobs have changed.Even the internet and google (searches), haven't stopped people from getting jobs, in general. So, I would guess the jobs market will still survive. But may just see some changes.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 09:56:07 pm
content: Just another round of buzzword bingo.For example, AI generated code: Code-generating AI can introduce security vulnerabilities, study finds (https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/28/code-generating-ai-can-introduce-security-vulnerabilities-study-finds/).

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:16:33 pm
content: try to ask it to show an electronic schematic of ... whatever.they are pretty useless (till now !?)

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:25:34 pm
content: For programming, I'm not worried at all. I have not seen it do anything actually impressive. I'm not sure what non-programmer understanding of what programmers do on a daily basis, but typing boilerplate code is not it. Plus the code is far more precise than art. For art "something close" is often good enough, which is not the case for programming.How would you expect new art and art styles to appear if everyone "just generates" stuff? Sure, there will always be a need for art with very precise requirements, but how would new artists get to that point?I'm also interested to see how the modes would evolve (or degrade). Currently all the models are trained on clean data before AI explosion. Imagine you have to move forward and need to update the model, but now most of the code committed to GitHub and used as training data is AI generated crap? It will further learn and will generate even bigger crap. They would really have to figure out how to filter out that stuff, or things will degrade quickly.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 10:57:39 pm
content: Is The Chaser saying their authors can be replace by an IQ 88 entity?I do not want this comment to be taken as claiming that this technology is not revolutionary. It is! But don’t be blinded by the hype. Do not focus on unbounded extrapolating, as that virtually never works. I expect smortnets will bring huge changes, but I would focus more on the philosophical side of it and how everything around smortnet deployment affects society.At the current state of machine learning development, smortnets are as capable of replacing artists as calculators are capable of replacing mathematicians. Maybe in the future, but not yet. Being an artist is not about merely creating an image (or other work). It’s about being the taste. Aesthetics, conveying the message, connecting emotionally to other humans — choose whichever you want, smortnets can’t do that yet.We are not going through anything new. The same old story, just with different characters. For now smornets speed up a mechanical, tedious process that has little to do with artistic expression. My great grandfather was drawing posters for money. He did that, because printing small batches of graphics was prohibitively expensive, and because people had no tools to quickly stich a few images and text in a text editor. Offset printing(1)and DTP made that kind of job obsolete. Equally, photography made commercial portrait painting no longer needed. But neither of this affected actual artistic work. Of course it made it impossible to earn money on doing that boring, skillful job other people were not willing to master. It also nuked the market of people, who lacked any artistic skills (and often any skills), but served customers with very limited requirements. And I suppose smortnets will have a similar effect. But be aware that artists are already jumping to use generated pictures and that still requires their artistic skills: because they still must use their critical thinking to tell which images they want and how they want to affect it. It is already confirmed in legal cases: while smortnet-generated image is not a subject to copyright in US, the mere process of selection by the artist makes the selected picture a copyrighted artwork.The reason machine learning is unable to replace artists is the same it can’t replace software developers, writing valuable essays or producing documentaries. I do realize smortnets seem magical, but please recognize that: those are nothing more than glorified statistics. Just much less understood and delivering more accurate predictions for arbitrary data. They seem to do much more than that because… imperfection of human brains. Not only there is a strong selection bias in reports/exposure, your brain is “patching bullshit”. It’s no different than people seeing faces on Mars or TA “experts” describing market behavior from random walk. The brain loves patterns and ignores elements that don’t fit. To the point that people were fooled to talk to a markov bot on mailing lists, despite it should be obvious it’s not a human. With smortnets this goes to extreme.In the nutshell, the best they can currently do is performing very complicated mapping between two pieces of information. Which permits them to replicate a single, separated feature of a “thinking” system. But for now they miss the ability to emulate such a system. In particular, and that is of uttermost importance, they lack ability to be critical of their own outputs. I am pretty sure they will acquire that ability in the future, but in 2022 it’s not there. And that is the primary limiting factor for now. A smortnet may write you a simple program, but in many cases it will will be “not exactly right” and the algorithm has absolutely no way of telling that.Finally, what smortnet operators do not tell you: the energy usage of most advanced algorithms is insane compared what a human uses for the same task. That’s why — aside from having control — ML based mobile apps are usually offered as service running on a remote server and why self-driving cars are employing solutions that are way behind what is supposed to be the current state of the art.(1)Early offset printing was invented during his childhood, but it didn’t reach widespread commercial use in Poland during his lifetime.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 11:02:12 pm
content: What would be more useful than a code generator is a spec-parser. Code that's wrtitten to a vaguely expressed spec will be no better than if you give that spec to a bunch of programmers. The first stage therefore in creating a code writing bot is to have it identify all the ambiguous elements of the spec and discuss them with you.At that point, what you've got is the code, written in a high level language. So obviously, it can be compiled to something that can be executed. But understanding the requirements and expressing them in an unambiguous way is the hard part and that's what programmers do now.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 11:15:25 pm
content: Then "wring the spec" just becomes new programming. And I doubt that for a complex system the spec would be much shorter than the code.And another thing to consider here is changes later in in the lifetime. You would have to be mad to completely regenerate the code with minor changes to the original spec. So, there must be some way for the AI to know the current state of the code base, which inevitably would include manual changes, especially to support stuff that was invented after AI was trained.And then you also need to consider how you would approach revision control. Are you just going to give OpenAI control over your whole future? Those models may be very resource-intensive to run, and they are prohibitively expensive to train.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 11:36:35 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 01, 2023, 11:15:25 pmExactly. Programming has always been this : to write a spec for the operations required in a language the hardware can execute. Advanced compilers can accept a higher level language but it still needs to be unambiguous.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2023, 11:48:16 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 01, 2023, 11:36:35 pmThe problem is that any spec you write will always be wrong. Because the spec defines what the software will do, and what the software should do is always a matter of opinion. One person's bug is another person's designed behavior.The art of computer programming is to discover a spec that satisfies more people than not, more often than not. The first specification you come up with is guaranteed to be different from the one implemented in the end.This is not likely to be a problem that machines can solve any time soon.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 12:59:12 am
content: @EEVblog And we're not at video content generation yet. That's going to be a whole other thing in its own right.

author: EPTech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 06:44:51 am
content: Sarah Conner! This is your cue!

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 06:54:54 am
content: Call me when that gizmo will be able to route PCBs for me.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 03:13:23 pm
content: I don't think we're far off from asking Alexa to design&order simpler projects.This might be controversial but how hard can it be to reach a point where the AI would be able to arrange the parts on the PCB and route everything, having been trained on a gazillion designs?

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 04:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 02, 2023, 03:13:23 pmHave you noticed, how the entire hype revolves around aiming at the low hanging fruit of fooling human brains and not solving any actual, computationally hard problems? Guess why!There are some smortnets that can solve strategic games, aid protein folding, and spot optimization opportunities in data fed to classic algorithms. But that’s it. I believe that machine learning solutions will be able, perhaps even by 2030, to greatly outperform existing routing algorithms. But that’s an observation not related to the recent hype. ChatGPT, Stable DIffusion, even AlphaZero — they are absolutely incapable of providing outputs meeting any strict constraints, if the result is to be evaluated precisely.The closest they get is being able to produce somethingresemblingfloor plans. What reporters forgot to mention: there is no real limits set for the layout, you must filter out manually the most absurd responses, get used to 30cm wide doors here and there, entering your home through the restroom, and having a wall in front of your living room window. But you may appreciate an array of chimneys in your garage — perhaps an art piece. Garage has a gate leading to your kitchen.

author: Jacon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 06:20:12 pm
content: Another technological fever, which raises interesting law problems:https://www.computerworld.com/article/3684408/the-one-real-problem-with-synthetic-media.html

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 08:12:25 pm
content: Quote from: Jacon on January 02, 2023, 06:20:12 pmIn short: F the IP, switch to crowdfunded PD.

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 08:14:27 pm
content: Why is everyone so excited about these developments? The pictures are great I must admit, but these are at the end of the day are just manually tuned approximations / carefully selected learning datasets.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:00:57 pm
content: The AI generated pictures are fun, but ultimately they all have a similar look, like AI generated pictures. I suspect there's a bit of a fad there and people will eventually get bored of it.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:20:07 pm
content: When AI will start make everything and humans will stop producing content because everyone will be using AI, then what AI is going to be trained on if there will be no human produced content?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 09:59:23 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 02, 2023, 09:20:07 pmThis is easier to answer if instead of calling it AI, you call it machine learning (ML). Machines have been shown to be able to teach themselves (for example, the Go program that beats the best human players).The problem now becomes one of goal setting rather than training, and the challenge will be to provide appropriately defined goals. If the goal is quantifiable, such as winning a game, or maximizing the number of successful outcomes, that is one thing. If the goal is artistic (produce good pictures), that is harder, especially since humans do not agree among themselves what is good art.In the latter case the quantifiable goal will be to produce art that people are willing to pay money for, and that will be interesting for the art world, since art will have to be judged on its merits and not on the reputation of the creator. Or maybe certain programs will get their own reputation and have name recognition like human artists?

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: Jacon on January 02, 2023, 06:20:12 pmI do not know, why is the article so alarmist, talking about the topic… which now has the least unknowns.Berne convention is very clear in this case, it has been tested multiple times in court, and there is at least two US cases confirming the situation for generated images. They are by themselves not eligible for copyright, because they are not made by a human or a group of humans.There has been uncertainties regarding artistic input from the human controlling the smortnet. This has been theoretically on the side, that artistic choices make the work a subject to copyright. The active human choices guiding the algorithm are what makes it intellectual property. It’s not a new subject and has been beaten to death for a century: with passport photos, medical imaging, photographic reproductions of old paintings; more recently CCTV, dashcam recordings, and automated satellite photos. It is already tested in US with smortnet-generated images, with the expected outcome.Most photos do not have any recognizable style. For the remaining minority of art, the style itself is not a subject to copyright. Even the most extreme IP supporters among artists did not call for that. It would prevent them themselves from publishing works, because a single author would sit on the entire genre. With art being mixing and recycling, it’s also impossible to tell, who would that be. You can’t tell who really created the first metal or jazz piece.The problem is with slurping the learning dataset from unauthorized sources, hence not getting legal clearance for producing derivatives. That’s currently the major issue with open source content being taken from GitHub to teach Copilot. And there is another minor point: accidentally generating something closely resembling an existing work. See the attached picture, which I made with IIRC Stable Diffusion in September. The clothing is different, the face proportions are a bit off, the contrast differs; but otherwise it’s a copy ofthis photodown to single wrinkles on her face. Most importantly, smortnet copied the crucial and unique element of the original: her facial expression and the look in her eyes. But that is not different from the current situation, where you are likely to trespass someone’s IP by accident.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 10:51:50 pm
content: Quote from: Unixon on January 02, 2023, 08:14:27 pmIsn't that what Art school is as well?What is the difference between an artist drawing something by hand, an artist using a tablet or anyone using MidJourney to express some idea in a visual form. Does the technique matter over the result?Sure you could argue that using MidJourney there's not much effort, and you maybe settle for something that comes out randomly great. But also some artists operate the same way. They start the creative process and they're not sure what they'll finally come up with.

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2023, 11:50:24 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 02, 2023, 10:51:50 pmThe major difference I can point to immediately is that an artist knows in some shape or form what it wants to achieve, while a neural network just performs a numerical conversion of some meaningless data.An artist can explain why he/she/it wants to pursue a certain path, probably without being too enthusiastic about giving such explanation because he/she/it "just feels so".Quote from: bob808 on January 02, 2023, 10:51:50 pmIn case of an artist using the MJ for an instrument the selection of final image happens on the part of the artist, and that's the point. MJ has no effing idea what it has to produce, the only thing it has is just a huge number of weights in the network. Of course it could be argued then that a real biological neural network does nearly the same and I would even agree to this argument but only if a number of strong additional conditions are met (self-reflection, common cognitive basis, etc...).

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 12:15:28 am
content: General AI is a whole other subject. With MidJourney you have the final say on what is the final art piece. I see it as a tool and nothing more.I think there's two aspects to what we (used to) call art. There's the execution and there's the idea itself. Clearly execution augments the idea. But that is not to say that many more people don't have that or even greater ... "ideas"? or powerful internal imagery that they have no way of expressing via classical means, be it drawing, sculpting, music. I see these new tools as interfaces for expressing certain ideas, some of which we celebrate as art. Makes it easy for more people to express themselves, kinda like Arduino did for some artists. Or python for scientists.So far great art has been heavily gated by the ones that both had interesting things to express and also possessed the means to do it greatly, at the same time.

author: Unixon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 11:06:02 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 03, 2023, 12:15:28 amIf it doesn't fit the definition of strong general AI, it is not an intelligence at all, just an overcomplicated tensor function.The problem is most of inadvertent users of weak AI systems are not mathematicians or AI specialists and they take it for appearance of a strong AI behind the curtains.What's even worse, people in governments and evil corporate management began to think it is already good enough and they're already putting these artificial idiot kind of chat bots everywhere.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 12:46:26 pm
content: What got me hooked on all this stuff was this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/the-long-road-to-singularity/I had heard the hype and assumed it was just hype, I had no idea how far it had come. I used to play with neural nets and took me a while a few years back to even recall the name of the company that made the software I bought (I think!): California Scientific Software. Brainmaker I see, DOS, late 80s IIRC. Being not unaware of advances in computing since then, I've wondered what came of that sort of stuff, given the power of even a 100 neuron model. AI this AI that, but nothing which really seemed to live up to the hype with real functional demonstration.Until now.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 02:27:33 pm
content: Just launching the idea...

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 02:36:07 pm
content: I asked (I can't remember, exactly, but very approximately this) it to design a new EEVblog forums, Logo. With bright, colourful flashing LEDs, and transistors. This is what it came up with:

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 02:40:50 pm
content: This is interesting, it will tell you the used source(s). The question used to demonstrate it is silly of course, but it also does it for pieces of code etc.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 07:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: madires on January 01, 2023, 09:56:07 pmYes, videos about ChatGPT are currently everywhere on YT (and other platforms), it's a frenzy that makes tons of views.This is only benefiting people making views about it and OpenAI.And as it has often been mentioned here and elsewhere, AI is a misnomer.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 10:39:44 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 03, 2023, 02:36:07 pmI also tried doing company logos and apparently it's not at all trained on doing that. I couldn't even force it to put the EEVblog text. Maybe I was doing it wrong

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2023, 11:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 03, 2023, 10:39:44 pmOr maybe it lacks intelligence?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 12:44:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 03, 2023, 10:39:44 pmI think if I/we could get proper access to it and/or supply our own extra images, it could do better.They seem to be limiting the free accounts to 50 'tokens' (or whatever they call them), then 15 extra tokens (but balance won't go above 15 per month, if I understand their details).Which doesn't give much of a chance to experiment and learn with it. As it messes up the drawing process, most times, so you would use up many of those tokens, just to make one semi-decent picture.It seems 1 picture = 1 token, each clicked retry, costs a token.Tokens are something like $10 for 115. So rather pricey, unless doing it for serious business reasons.If it was continuously free (as a trial, perhaps with 5 free tokens per hour), I suspect that with a huge number of attempts, which would mean gaining experience on how to use it well. Semi-reasonable results could be obtained.From using up my 50 attempts (tokens), it seems it is a fun toy, and learning exercise on what AI can do, now. But is not really useful for most tasks (pictures), at the moment.But I'm sure tools like that, will rapidly improve. Eventually becoming useful.They perhaps are good enough to generate book or report, illustrations. Without needing to pay a professional illustrator, to do it for you. Like you said, it can be useful for thumbnails, or to illustrate a point in youtube videos.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 12:27:35 pm
content: If you have a GPU with enough RAM (4GB), you can download Stable Diffusion and run the art models locally, including giving it an image prompt, or if keen, train it on new art (with more RAM and enough time).I tried finding an easy way to run it on a NAS with weak GPU but gobs of RAM it can probably access. But could only find CPU versions which would be nasty slow on it (1 hour I think) so I put that idea on hold.It can run on an iPhone.Based on my earlier calcs the model size of something like that or DALL-E 2 is only around the size of a bee's brain including the language comprehension side. That means in theory a bee could understand all those words and dream those same images in its little head (if it didn't have to control arms and legs or whatever they have).

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 12:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: adx on January 04, 2023, 12:27:35 pmThanks, that is VERY interesting. If it makes any kind of sense, I have significant aversions to paying them money, as I'd rather do those things on my own equipment. Also, I don't like cloud services, partly because the monthly subscriptions, can be huge, when properly perceived/calculated over a realistic time period. E.g. $20/£20 per month = Over 10 years = 12 (months) x 10 (years) = x120 = $2,400 / £2,400 = A large amount of money.Also, cloud services can suddenly change (interfaces and/or functionality and/or ownership), and dramatically increase in cost, over time. Additionally they lack privacy.One of the worst features, is that they can suddenly disappear over-night, or at too short notice. Along with all your data/projects/stuff. Which can be in proprietary formats, and not supported by anything else. Which can be a real pain.The requirement you specified, don't sound too bad. A modern GPU (I think it is best, to carefully check the required specification of it, especially as regards video memory size, as even the biggest domestic use ones, might be too small, for some of the AI stuff, you want to use on it, e.g. training certain stuff) and computer to go with it, and patience to wait for it to process the results.The Wiki on the software system you mentioned. Here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stable_DiffusionSeems to say:QuoteSo care is maybe advisable, before buying stuff to do things like this on it. Depending on your requirements and intentions, which will dictate how big and powerful a system(s), you may need.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 01:34:53 pm
content: Download from here:https://github.com/cmdr2/stable-diffusion-ui#installationI have it running locally, installation was easy. Once running it gives you a local webpage (localhost:9000) where you can put in your text prompt and hundreds of settings to play with.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2023, 05:26:36 pm
content: I suppose there's other algorithms that get trained on what we do with ChatGPT and MidJourney and the likes. There's interesting data to be extracted from that as well.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 07:19:53 am
content: There's all sorts of things the image generator can't do that a human artist can:eg. Try making a series of images for a book using thesame characterbut doing different things.PS: Would you trust an AI to generate a complex PCB?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 07:51:23 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 05, 2023, 07:19:53 amI don't think the AI image generator, is even being artistic at all. It is relying on the user of the AI package, to choose an image, because it looks the way they want. I.e. all the artistic taste, comes from the human user of it, NOT the AI system.Hence the need for it to give, four sample images each time, in the hope that at least one of them, might hit the mark.I'm not even convinced, a system which only uses relatively short text descriptions, is going to get the right/desired image. Especially with very tricky things. Whereas a real artist, would probably (I guess) spend time with the customer, and do very quick rough sketches, get feedback on those, to narrow down what the customer really wants.Maybe it is a bit artistic, especially with the oil paintings. But I've seen too little and know too little about it, to know, either way. I remember the old/previous one (or something), could make these sickening (at times), pictures of cats, which looked rather horrifying. There still seems to be a bit of that left, in the system.Because although humans, look ok, at a quick glance, a more careful look, especially around the eyes area of the face. Doesn't look right, and even looks a bit spooky, in a bad way.E.g. Posted earlier in this thread. It looks a bit odd/funny, if you look at it carefully. Especially the face, and the eyes. It doesn't look right or good, to me, at least.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 08:08:21 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 05, 2023, 07:51:23 amI'm sure there will be a lot of "uncanny valley" artifacts in there.FWIW I Just paid a student to do some artwork for me. I gave Dall-E a try at making something suitable and couldn't get anywhere close to what I wanted. Dall-E doesn't seem to know what an Arduino is, and it like putting pictures of children into "Arduino" images even when I ask for "space monster". The student got it pretty much right on the first try.My take: The demos are pretty but there's a looong way to go yet.PS: I've been reading about computer program generators taking all the programming jobssince the 1980s(check articles in the "References" section for some good chuckles).(from:https://xkcd.com/568/)PPS: Spooky coincidence?http://smbc-comics.com/comic/art-5<exaggeration>The biggest danger from AI right now is students thinking it can do their homework for them.</exaggeration>

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 11:24:37 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 03, 2023, 10:39:44 pmMy spidey-sense wonders if that result might be intentional. Company logos are a minefield. Trademark infringement is quite different from copyright infringement. You'd be sourcing your logo from other brand's logos (and trademarks). Woah, boy...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 11:29:12 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 05, 2023, 11:24:37 amIt certainly is.QuoteI get an image of diving into a wood chipper......

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 11:57:38 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 05, 2023, 11:24:37 amThat's not the AI's problem...

author: Nicholas1
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 01:56:26 pm
content: This AI reminds me of a program called "GitHub Copilot". It works on multiple programming softwares such as Visual Studio Code and PyCharm and to a very accurate degree if one describes the problem in a detailed but concise manner. I'm an Electrical/Electronic Engineering student, and my friend tested it on our embedded systems exam after we completed it. He noted that it worked quite well and wrote the code rather quickly. 0s and 1s may be our new world...

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 04:01:49 pm
content: MidJourney is a show-off tool atm. It isn't optimized for certain workflows. But I am pretty sure many more tools are coming which will be optimized for different industries. Like logo generation or website graphical kit generation. Or get trained on being able to use the same character of interest but in different contexts in each new photo.I think I remember reading something about there being no IP for whatever the AI is generating as it's not human generated. Pretty sure there's a lot of discussions on this topic atm, from a legal point of view. They'll sort it out somehow.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2023, 10:08:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 05, 2023, 11:57:38 amThe point is, they may have removed any obviously copyrighted logos from the learning material, to make any future lawsuits against themselves, less cut and dry.wizardtim had a good relevant post on youtube.QuoteAlthough I don't know if I'm in entire agreement, as, what is the different between AI looking at a sample of copyright art and a human artist looking at those same samples with their eyes, and then using that for inspiration. Not sure.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 12:49:26 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 05, 2023, 07:51:23 amBut that is not an inherent limitation of the technology itself. I was also focused on finding a particular output and not caring about quality. The point I want to make is that it clearly copied something from the training set. It might’ve mangled the picture a bit, but all the important features remain intact.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 01:54:50 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 06, 2023, 12:49:26 amI wasn't trying to criticise your earlier post. I'd juststolenborrowed your picture, to illustrate, that at the moment, the ChatGPT's, DALL·E 2 picture generator, via a word description. Is (N.B. opinions can easily vary, on its suitability) not really ready for more serious uses, of such a picture.But it is perhaps good enough for messing around, fun, draft/early copies of stuff.Because pictures are so important, valuable and used all over the place (as others have also stated, perhaps elsewhere on this forum). It is likely that these text to picture offerings, are going to rapidly improve and evolve to the point of being increasingly useful.The pictures themselves, are actually sometimes, quite good. But the text to picture mechanism, seems to be fiddly, imprecise and not really listening to the instructions, like a professional human artist, would.I suppose putting it in different words. It is a bit like encountering what is going to be a really good photo processing application, such as Photoshop. But it is still in a very early alpha software state, and has a huge number of bugs, failings and missing features.But it does look really promising, when it is much closer to the finished article.Some people may have mentioned, that there are better ones (AI text to pictures), but I don't think I've tried them, or not recently.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 02:22:35 am
content: I'll let others judge the results. Here is one of the better pictures I managed to get made, recently. Using the ChatGPT's, DALL·E 2 picture generator.The text used was "EEVblog forums cat, playing in an electronics lab, with big bold and colourful flashing LEDs and motors, while controlling a large oscilloscope".Results:

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 02:49:52 am
content: For actual, detailed works this is not enough. The smortnet was never trained for that, though. And for some uses you do not need much more. We already havean entire thread filled with wet neural networks outputs, which — while usually being of higher visual quality — often make even less sense. And no one cares, because the purpose is to invoke a particular response in recipient’s brain. A split-second process, devoid of any critical processing, the image itself playing no real role and to be forgotten a second later.This is commonly employed in advertisements and music videos. On extreme side with images shown for just a dozen frames. Though technique is by no means new: it will soon celebrate its hundreth birthday, with earliest examples including Gance’s “Napoleon”.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 05:35:03 am
content: Is that the oscilloscope in the background?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 05:42:12 am
content: Quote from: Bud on January 06, 2023, 05:35:03 amThat's a good example of why, currently, the pictures are more for fun or rough/draft work. To get it done properly, still needs someone to do it properly. Although with perhaps a quick session with Photoshop or similar, a real oscilloscope trace/screen, could be pasted into the picture, to fix/improve it.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 05:45:29 pm
content: The cat is controlling the large oscilloscope, so obviously it must be looking at the device. Which means it’s not in the frame. You are the oscilloscope.The thing in the background is a tube amplifier for the oscilloscope, with the fancy blue light as you find in some eBay tube amps.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 05:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 06, 2023, 05:42:12 amIt still reminds me of the python scripts I was playing around with a few years ago to generate text. I made several that could spit out pages and pages of reasonably formatted more or less grammatically correct text that were pretty much just gibberish. It was amusing but not the least bit useful.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 10:10:44 pm
content: Fran did a video on this:

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2023, 11:29:15 pm
content: I guess the more philosophical question is "what do we do at the point past which we don'thaveto do anything?". Should we reach it? Itfeelslike we should.

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 03:09:39 am
content: I don’t know if I am not asking the questions the right way, or the AI is simply screwing up.Or maybe I am not understanding the answers correctly…First example: I brew beer for a hobby. I usually brew under pressure and crash cool at the end of fermentation. The AI gets the math wrong.Second example: Fairly basic question.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 03:18:16 am
content: It does not "know" math at all. It is a language model. It is capable of convincingly BSing its way around topics.All it knows that at this point in the sentence some number makes a lot of sense. It is frankly amazing that it gets that far.This is why it is so dangerous. It is good enough to convince you that it is correct.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 03:23:22 am
content: It's just a gigantic piece ofcrapillusion.One sure thing is that its proponents are working hard at making us all believe that it's gonna become unavoidable, so that we better get used to it.Call me when this shit has any value for people except for those very few who reap direct benefits both in terms of money and power.I'm almost convinced now that it's soon going to be used for all kinds of completely official and serious uses despite its patent shortcomings. This is the new normal.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 03:38:26 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on January 07, 2023, 03:09:39 amIt’s a huuuuuge and complicated mathematical equation, in which parameters were adjusted in millions of repeated test-adjust attempts. For a bunch of input numbers it produces a bunch of output numbers. The parameters were chosen in a way, that human brain seeing the output will think they are a sensible result of the input.The smortnet does not think in usual sense of this word. It can’t understand its own outputs, as it doesn’t even have a capability to perceive those. Not to mention having any circuitry to correct/reject them.Performing such operations is not even limited to machine learning. One can construct a deterministic system, which will do the same. The difference with smortnets is that they are resilent against input noise,(1)though the consequence is the noise you get in the output, and that constructing them is computationally uncomparably cheaper than what would be needed in older, deterministic systems of a similar scale.(2)(1)For a few recent, famous solutions noise is actually injected into the system to obtain the results.(2)Strictly speaking: traditional solutions would be infeasible at this scale. You could construct a hash function, that does exactly what ChatGPT does, but it would take multiple ages of the universe if not more.

author: Per Hansson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 12:22:38 pm
content: In the example Dave is amazed how it spits out some Arduino code, but it is literally just taken from the Arduino website.As PA0PBZ pointed out you can make itcite its source.I don't see how there is any ArtificialIntelligencein this at all.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 02:43:00 pm
content: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/jan/05/microsoft-chatgpt-bing-search-engineYou could say it's a glorified search engine.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 03:17:38 pm
content: Quote from: Per Hansson on January 07, 2023, 12:22:38 pmAI is the buzzword for what we've called neural networks 30 years ago. With today's CPU performance you can simulate much more neurons and layers, giving you more sophisticated results. Back then the highlight was to recognise handwritten numbers in realtime. It's still the same principle, just much larger. This also implies that your AI is a black box and you don't have any real control or idea of what's happening inside - it's simply too complex for the human brain to understand. If you train the AI with garbage, you'll get garbage as output (including discrimination, racism and all the other politically incorrect terms). The huge problem we have now is that some people believe in AI (or more generally in tech) superiority and are using it for hiring employees or determining insurance risks, while trying to avoid responsibility in case something goes wrong. Your Honour, it wasn't me, it was the AI! In the future we'll see a lot of lawsuits because of this. I'm not saying that AI is bad, but we need to understand its limits and risks, and how to use it sensibly.

author: Axk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 05:02:34 pm
content: I guess I need a better understanding of how this GPT-3 thing works and that's probably an incorrect way to formulate my question,Is there some parsing to determine the query type going on before it passes it to the GPT model?E.g.Text formattingCode generationCode analysisText summarizationsource citationetcOr is it just literally one big model that is trained to do all the tasks?From playing with it I have the same impression as most of the people here.I don't see much practical application for it personally at the moment besides maybe:Code scaffoldingShort scripts for simple tasksText correction and formattingAnything factual, you cannot trust it.I thought it could summarize articles based on URLs but turns out it just composed stories based on the few words in the URLs themselves )

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:09:37 pm
content: It’s one huge model, which is big enough and was taught with large enough dataset to be able to adapt to any language task.Of course the final output, as conveyed to humans, is formatted using traditional techniques from markup the smortnet produces. But everything up until that point is a single encoder-decoder transformer.Unlike the model itself, theGPT3 paperis available to public. But, until you are already reading ML papers for years, it will not be very useful to understanding this algorithm from ground up. The smortnet itself is provided exclusively to Microsoft and only Microsoft can use it to deliver solutions to the market. So no one knows all the details.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 06:31:03 pm
content: Apart from chatgpt itself, I think even if we would be somehow saved from the general strong AI, these softwares just by the disruption will cause more harm than good.There is this theory that disruption is good because it moves the world forward, but there is a point where it can end up in chaos. Even with social networks we see it, and I am not sure what is the huge benefit what we got from FB and the likes. However we can clearly see that politics is getting more and more destabilized all around the world thanks to some of these disruptions.The first world war was also in huge part caused by the industrial revolution, and the fact that human society was not prepared for a war on an industrial scale, actually couldn't even imagine what it could mean.With AI and genetic engineering I see a very dark horizont ahead of us. (The corona virus was just a really harmless demo of what could be waiting for us.)

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 07:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: Per Hansson on January 07, 2023, 12:22:38 pmCould it interpret some obscure code found on the web and perhaps document it a little bit?Asking for a friend.

author: Axk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 08:49:17 pm
content: I wonder if we gonna see a 2023 "AI bubble" ))

author: Axk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 09:04:02 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 07, 2023, 07:44:55 pmIt won't really add any value besides stating obvious things about the code.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 10:45:13 pm
content: Quote from: Axk on January 07, 2023, 08:49:17 pmI think it depends on how well the public takes to "conversational search".I think they need to rename it to something simple, and have a straight Google-like page. Currently it's kinda hidden away a bit behidn a subdomain.Simplicity and branding is the key here.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2023, 11:04:12 pm
content: I think only Microsoft can use it so it'll become Bing. Or some version of Bing.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 01:40:56 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on January 07, 2023, 06:31:03 pmProgress in computing is not filling me with fear. What worries me, is that kind of a mindset. I know of no creature more dangerous and destructive than scared humans.Speaking of which, the smortnet situation triggers my curiosity not for technical reasons,(1)but from social, philosophical and psychological perspectives. The element most interesting in all this is a human and human society. I think I already posted that somewhere, but I suggest two movies:The Heavenly Creature (2012), a part of “Doomsday Book” triptych, not to be confused withJackson’s movie: depicting tension between two perceptions of a machine, working in a buddhist monastery, which started acting as an enlightened human. More current than ever. Better than anything showing, how I feel now, watching the smortnet hitting public.Colossus: The Forbin Project (1970): seen as a member of the “evil AI” trope, to me this picture makes a strong philosophical statement about humans and your morality. A stunning depiction an ethical equivalent of the paperclip maximizer, exposing inherent incoherence of human ethics.(1)That part is something I went through in late 2000s. My degree thesis was meant to be in autonomous robot swarms.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 07:51:31 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 07, 2023, 03:18:16 amI've worked with a few guys like that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 07:54:33 am
content: Quote from: Axk on January 07, 2023, 08:49:17 pmProbably at some point. I suspect it will be like VR in the 90s, all the rage, going to revolutionize the world, it's the greatest most awesome thing ever, and then people realize eventually that for the most part it's just a fun toy that never really lived up to a lot of the claims. Most people want to interact with real people, not with machines that vaguely mimic human behavior.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 08:25:44 am
content: I think we're saturated as far as attention span goes. From now on we'll have to sacrifice time from the already allocated one, to make room for new "toys" that have our attention. There's a limited quantity for attention span and we're already stretching it.We can't keep getting busy with all the new things, without leaving other stuff behind, or minimizing the time we allocate to the things we are already doing.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 03:21:23 pm
content: Alternative usage by the bad guys:OPWNAI : Cybercriminals Starting to Use ChatGPT (https://research.checkpoint.com/2023/opwnai-cybercriminals-starting-to-use-chatgpt/)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 04:11:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 09, 2023, 07:54:33 amOr computer chess in the 1960s - if the machine can do something that's the domain of the smartest of humans then it must be going to take over...

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 05:31:49 pm
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 09, 2023, 01:40:56 amIf I understand you right, you mean that my mentality is the problem? While I agree generally, that scared(or rather panicked) people do generally stupid things, that in itself is not a counterargument to what I said. (wrote.)Also the incoherences in practical human moral and its negative aspects is in itself is not an argument for a world not being able to be much worse with strong and not so strong AIs.Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2023, 04:11:37 pmAs I said it is not just the taking over scenario. Look at the spam on the internet, which is a result of a much lower level programming, and still it makes a lot of harm on the net, and makes very useful information hidden much more than it was 10 years before, and also steering people towards monopol plattforms.And most importantly makes it every day more difficult to filter out useful information from the spam and rumors.Or the effect of some uncontrolled social media algorithm, against which human society to start to react (and to realize its efets) took years.Or just giving small children a smartphone and net access just because we can, and than start to wonder why so many children have much more anxiety etc. than the had 4-5 years before.If these kind of changes are hapening on a faster scale than the society could accomodate to them, than it will go faster and faster in direction chaos, or because of some panic reactions towards totalitarian systems. Freedom of speach is already practically questioned even in western socieies, to not to talk about the rest, especially China which was turned into a digital dystopia.And the changes are getting faster and faster.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2023, 11:04:36 pm
content: Free speech was tolerated so far because it could be countered by propaganda. Sure go ahead and yell on the streets, mass-media will set the record "straight" for everyone and you can also have your free speech.This is a sort of "if voting could change anything it would be illegal" sort of thing. The problem now is that propaganda is starting to fail, more often. That doesn't sit well with some powers.Now sure, you could argue that (some) propaganda is ok for "the greater good". Especially since people (at large) can't handle every objective truth. There is a serious need and there is great function in basically bullshit. Society is still a sort of pyramid scheme. Somebody has to put in the work. We're not in post-scarcity yet. And a whole lot of people are basically bullshitting their way to it.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 04:28:17 pm
content: In many things I agree, but my point was, that because the society could not handle this situation properly, freedom of speach could be much less aviable even in interpersonal communication than it was before.So it is not necessary just getting about same but a bit different, but it can get much worse.I am sure that in China even interpersonal communication is listened through the mobiles, (if it is possible why not, and it is certainly possibe) so there things are getting defninitely worse than they were before 89.But also the said "bubbling" algorythms are making all the effects stronger.And it is not just that it takes time to implement solutions, but there is clearly a sign of panic in politics, so we can not even see any proper solutions proposed.If all this happened within a 30 years timeframe, we might could have the chance to handle it properly but this pace of things makes the situation qiet worrying. The 4-5 years election cycle was definitely not meant for this speed.

author: f4eru
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2023, 09:27:40 pm
content: QuoteWith all the censoring going on ?Not really.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 02:53:51 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 09, 2023, 07:54:33 amDepends on what you want to use it for.I see AI "conversation search" as practically guaranteed to take over a lot of Google's "Resource Search" based queries.Why ask a question in Google and then have to search through various resources and weight up their relevance just to get your answer. Let the AI do that.If I could buy shares in Open AI I would.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 03:43:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 17, 2023, 02:53:51 amSure, right up until the humans start creating web pages specifically to game the AI system.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 09:04:54 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 17, 2023, 03:43:41 pmOf course. Humans already game the Google system.The "AI" will be an additional layer of opacity, though.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 09:48:21 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 01, 2023, 11:36:35 pmAah, remember the .’old days’, when development roles were assigned to people that knew what they were doing ?Problem -> analysts -> programmers => shared out to coders => component testers, then backto the analyst and ‘customer’ to perform deliverable testing for the intended use.The new method is often -problem -> coders -> customer.…and it shows

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2023, 09:59:58 pm
content: Quote from: SL4P on January 17, 2023, 09:48:21 pmYou mean:problem -> customer.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2023, 11:55:29 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on January 17, 2023, 09:48:21 pmYou can still do it, it just costs 10x more.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2023, 08:43:00 pm
content: So anyway, you guys know who's the main investor behind OpenAI, don't you?https://openai.com/blog/microsoft/

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2023, 08:51:58 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 20, 2023, 08:43:00 pmClippy's not finished messing with our workflow.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2023, 08:58:45 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 20, 2023, 08:43:00 pmThat means we don't have to be scared of it.They'll soon make it Bing-only and nobody will use it.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 10:10:40 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 17, 2023, 03:43:41 pmThat's where our first mistake (or laying bare of one) might be - the assumption that humans will be capable of gaming the system. That's the current rules, it's a given that whatever the problem, human ingenuity (or stupidity) will find a way to outsmart it.But with trainable model size increasing tenfold per year, and models such as LaMDA already convincing people they are sentient at 1/500th human, and those Cerebras processors capable of human-scale models (100T+) in a single rack already, then it's reasonable to think there is somewhere between a "real possibility" and "near certainty" that these models will be capable of wiping the floor with human adversaries (perhaps poor choice of words) within a few years.When one of the most identifiable human responses appears to be the throwing up of hands (or arms - unsure of the physical structure) in disbelief, and yelling "but it can't have a soul!". Go team human?We have 2 more years.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2023, 05:35:44 pm
content: Sure, until the stupid humans play the AIs against each other.AI is just a tool in human hands. The humans still get to decide the desired output.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 08:38:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 21, 2023, 05:35:44 pmI think the general consensus is that if it can be weaponized it will be and you have to prepare for that. And I don't see humans stopping anytime soon as it works as far as game theory goes.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 12:17:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 21, 2023, 05:35:44 pmAnd there might be our second mistake - that we can play off AIs against each other in some artificially accelerated bout of natural selection, and think it's still possible to come out on top, with AI the "tool".I see the major players here as teams of humans who wield control in some sort of self-arranging ubernetwork, nothing new. I'm avoiding making too much of a distinction between them and non-biological models. Does identifying as "human" make it feel more natural to be called "just a tool in human hands" when working for some corporation?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2023, 11:38:02 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 20, 2023, 08:58:45 pmAhah. Well, while they have failed quite a few big projects, they are still the #1 desktop OS, and they have gotten a lion's share in the Cloud market.A big part of their investment in OpenAI is hosting OpenAI's servers and data for free. That's a gigantic amount of data they are holding here, and that's where the computing happens.Think of all the data they have gotten through github as well, which btw also feeds OpenAI.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 01:15:29 am
content: About copyright:

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 04:00:24 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 20, 2023, 08:43:00 pm"To accomplish our mission of ensuring that AGI (whether built by us or not) benefits all of humanity, we’ll need to ensure that AGI is deployed safely and securely; that society is well-prepared for its implications; and that its economic upside is widely shared. If we achieve this mission, we will have actualized Microsoft and OpenAI’s shared value of empowering everyone.""all of humanity""economic upside is widely shared""empowering everyone"Sounds great..."If we achieve this mission"If we could only make happy all of the people all of the time...now that would be something.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2023, 08:31:02 am
content: Too bad that video is an opinion presented as if it was an unbiased explanation. Also skipping the very important part of how this case doesn’t affect situation of generated images.The best way to benefit the general population is… to give a single company, which is already a part of an oligopoly, which is having dominant position in the market, is known for abuses, an exclusive right to use a unique technology that will give that company even more power and control. Umm… yeah. Someone should be sent back to the history class. But I am sure someone got top grade in PR bullshit class.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 05:38:37 am
content: tldr, not great at quantum physics concepts.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2023, 08:01:24 pm
content: If you want more "insights" into what MS has in store with ChatGPT:Nice shit!Are you sure you still want to touch this crap? I wouldn't even with a stick.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 01:22:14 am
content: I already spot some truly good uses for ChatGPT. Replace the interviewer. After all he does is nothing more than giving Nadella excuses to deliver what boils down to a well-prepared speech.I feel sad, that the discourse is bouncing between overhyping and fearmongering. Something, that may provide a philosophical shift comparable to theories of evolution, is degraded to such a low topic.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 07:38:48 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 25, 2023, 01:22:14 amI watched a few minutes of it and the "speech" seemed 100% waffle.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 08:45:28 am
content: BTW how was anyone able to access ChatGPT recently? It always throws a "we are overlaoded, sorry" error whenever I try to access it in the past month. Is this location based?

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 10:44:58 am
content: I just checked and got the "ChatGPT is at capacity right now" message. I'm sure I've been there in the past month without problems so I guess it's not based on location but on luck.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 11:16:41 am
content: Poor MBAs!ChatGPT passes MBA exam given by a Wharton professor:https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/chatgpt-passes-mba-exam-wharton-professor-rcna67036(warning: autoplay video)

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 03:30:27 pm
content: MBA exams are supposed to be easy. It is a tool to part people with their money. Only rich people go for it and you can't make exams to hard, or you will fail most of your target audience.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 04:15:08 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 25, 2023, 03:30:27 pmHave you seen the English proficiency tests for entrance?There is no way I would be passing those tests, and honestly it feels like the design of the test makes it so that foreign students would have no chance of passing.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 04:27:17 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on January 25, 2023, 04:15:08 pmNo. Are there credible example test anywhere?

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 08:56:03 pm
content: Returning to the topic, a friend got a result in which ChatGPT emulated a correct observation regarding its own mistake and provided a good solution. Beautiful! It can mimic the behavior of a human student on an oral exam.Quote from: tszaboo on January 25, 2023, 04:15:08 pmYou are not a native speaker, are you? I guess you would also fail elementary school maths exercise, if I wrote it in Polish and you had no translator at hand, but that has nothing to do with how hard the test is.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 25, 2023, 10:12:33 pm
content: But it is nothing more than mimicking. ChatGPT would accept and agree to your corrections, even if your corrections are completely wrong. This is the method people often use to make it produce nonsense even more than it would on its own. Fortunately there are solid filters and it is hard to make it go full nazi as Tay did.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 12:29:59 am
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on January 25, 2023, 10:44:58 amIt got national news coverage on a major news network in the USA this morning, several times, so perhaps it's becoming even more popular now.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 05:11:59 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 25, 2023, 10:12:33 pmThere was no correction or any hint. Not even indication, which of the calculations had a mistake. Merely a question, if it can recognize the mistake in “one of its calculations”. Which is what makes it a case different from other outputs expected from a language model.Quote from: xrunner on January 26, 2023, 12:29:59 amIt already served its purpose too. You don’t think it’s there for you to play forever?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 10:08:13 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on January 25, 2023, 08:45:28 amI get that too. I'm using the a beta version which still has access via my OpenAI login.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 10:12:24 am
content: At the moment it's fine again.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 17, 2023, 09:04:54 pmNot just that. Even more people (than who belive that the first hit in the search engine is the truth) will belive that what the AI said is the ultimate truth because it must bevery smart...Also to differentiate between humans and bots on the net will become almost impossible at some point.Quote from: golden_labels on January 25, 2023, 01:22:14 amI think that the "overhypers" can not really counter the arguments of the "fearmongerers".I clearly can't even see what is a general aim with a strong AI, apart from "it might will have some good uses". As if it would be some intended God or religion substitution for some. Who is going to doublecheckthe results of the ultimate wisedome? Or what is 42?The positiv arguments are clearly weak in comparison with the negative ones.It's like: it could have some good uses to give a bunch of children a gun because if a terrorist might show up they could have something to defend themself. Yes, but practically it will not do anything good.For the good of all humanity:Actually if we have a look at the last 20 years of internet usage, which was supposed to give freedom of information and equality to everyone the opposite has happened. Even within western societies, differences got bigger, and the general public doesn't seems to be better informed.Also ruining the planet switched to a higher speed.But pre-crime and 24 hour surveillance sounds so good...https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/10/a-data-black-hole-europol-ordered-to-delete-vast-store-of-personal-dataNow to hope, that if we introduce even more random fast changing factors into the equations will turn things definetively better, is just a belief, without factual or argumental backing.Sometimes it would be also nice to ask, what is the actualy aim of technical advancement, what do we want to achieve? Is it achievable through technical advancements? Did we get closer to what we wanted in the last....50 years? Or 150?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 10:57:05 pm
content: Actually, I was thinking about the possible uses on how this can change our society into something better (I know, right)?One of the biggest issue IMHO we are facing now is the post-truth society. Fake news and political polarization is a huge issue, and people can live their lives in an echo chamber. The political right and the left both seems to have taken a anti-scientific stance, where they just don't follow scientific evidence. So I asked our robot (which wasn't overloaded tonight, only very slow) if it can do this. It's really reluctant to say that it can detect fake news. And I know the training data ended in 2021 September. But I cannot help but wonder if this can be used to fix this issue. Or if it will make things even worse, since the repeated propaganda pieces will train the model with bad data, and it has no way of distinguishing it from real news.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2023, 11:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on January 26, 2023, 10:57:05 pmToo funny. The same certain peeps in the middle who are poisoning scientific research with 'science', as it were, will end up pumping money and nefarious efforts into this contraption as well. Think Wiki on steroids.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 12:00:11 am
content: I don't think it will either destroy nor revolutionize society. Back in the 60s people were fretting that synthesizers were going to ruin music, they didn't, they just created new genres of music, people still play traditional instruments.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 12:15:56 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 27, 2023, 12:00:11 amA better analogy might be Guitar Hero.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 01:04:57 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pmMachine learning solutions permit finding answers to otherwise computationally expensive problems. After understanding of how specific ML models work, they may become the next step after current statistics. There is a strong coöperation between machine learning researchers and neuropsychologists, boosting knowledge in both branches. Even the current meme smortnets offer philosophical insights, which may be as crucial and influential as those which led Galileo and Darwin.Quote from: Neutrion on January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pmThat entire fragment is so all over the place and incoherent, that it’s hard to understand it. But it gives me a strong impression, it’s written as if development was a matter of someone’s choice.Quote from: Neutrion on January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pmPonder on that more, taking advantage of not having to pull a plough to marginally offset your hunger and even being aware of such abstract issues.Quote from: tszaboo on January 26, 2023, 10:57:05 pmBasically as it has been for the past 3000 years, at laest. For an average person with only minor nudges in either direction. With people equallydeceiving themselves that “in the past it was better”.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 01:32:45 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 27, 2023, 12:15:56 amGuitar Hero hasn't ruined music either, it's a video game, not a simulator. Nobody goes to Guitar Hero concerts.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 01:36:00 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 27, 2023, 01:32:45 am

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 01:12:49 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on January 26, 2023, 10:57:05 pmI don't think there has ever been a time when humanity had more access to truth than it does today. The real issue is that it's mixed up with a lot of distortions of it. But we have access to most truth we ever had.That is why you see the discrepancies of both left/right political spectrums. Because up until the internet started being mainstream they could more easily sell their bullshit.And anyway, people don't deal that good with truth.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 01:46:01 pm
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 27, 2023, 01:04:57 amOk, take it this way. The effort, money and resources required to spread misinformation has been reduced to the point, and the return on said effort is so big, that it's always worth doing it. As a stable constant, 1-3% of people are narcissist, psychopaths and their goal will always be different than cooperation or truth or finding solutions for problems. So there is a big payout of misinformation, you can literally ruin a country by funding media outlets that will produce 24/7 nonsense, and create a large "virtual followers" for them to normalize it.You can change election results with misinformation, and state capture entire countries. I am from one of those countries.Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 01:12:49 pmWell controversy creates clicks. Then there are search bubbles, and being in groups sharing this nonsense without fact checking.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 03:43:01 pm
content: That is just a power struggle that will always happen due to our nature and the environment. Humans are going to try to find new ways of getting that power, in any framework you set them in.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 06:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 26, 2023, 11:46:11 pmExactly. And masses will belive, that now the ultimate truth is coming from that machine, everythin else is a lie.On the other hand those who were following the story with the double slit experiments and it's phiosophical aspects know, that actually scientifically there is no such a thing as one final objective truth.Quote from: golden_labels on January 27, 2023, 01:04:57 amMachine learning on some specific tasks and a general AI replicating human thinking or being better at it (or letting peolple belive doing so) are not the same thing.And unleashing even these not too so strong AI's on the general public as it now happens. And yes mostly driven by short term interests.Quote from: Neutrion on January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pmQuote from: golden_labelsIf you create a complex machine using it's results without doublechecking them with humans, than you created a God or a Totem which you only have to belive in. But if you don't, and doublecheck all the results, what is the point of the machine?Development (mostly only in a technical form) is happening because human society belives that it is a good thing, and it makes our life better and happier, it is not a law of nature.Quote from: Neutrion on January 26, 2023, 02:28:29 pmQuote from: golden_labelsBut why didn't we we wanted to pull the plough? To suffer less I guess.Does the manager who works 10 hours a day than goes to the gym (to replicate the plough pulling on some machine) feels himself better?The answer is: we don't know. He might doesn't even have more freetime than those plough-pullers back than.The belief in technical development being the good thing which is making us happier can not be backed by science. All what we know is, that we live longer, at our current state of mind don't want to miss some modern comforts like 100 years before,(most of the people at least) and screwed the planet in about 100 years.Anything more is just a belief.Most current science do not back the idea that you need to live in a technically developed enviroment to be happy. Neurologically maybe the happiest peolple on earth if I remember right are some monks who spend many hours a day under a waterfall. (Without watching catvideos on their smartphones.)Quote from: tszaboo on January 26, 2023, 10:57:05 pmQuote from: golden_labelsBut the real ansver is, that we don't know wheter in the past it was generally happier or not.So those who suppose that it is a bullshit and now it is better to live are also just following their gut feelings.Possibly this is the main religion today, the "Developmentism" since the renaissance but mostly since the end of the second world war.But neighter philosophy or science is backing this Idea. If we actually check the enviromental science, we are not developing but degrading -taking into account the whole system-.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 10:55:52 pm
content: Don't you think it's objectively and clearly way better to live today than a hundred years ago? Penicillin wasn't even discovered. People who had lots of wealth had to accept the loss of loved ones from simple infections. All the money they had couldn't save them.I don't see this as something particular hard to be agreed on. There's no question we're way way way better off than before.Even if somehow people were "happier" back then, something extremely subjective anyway, would that extra "happiness" be worth it in balance with all the people that didn't die because of the advances we have today?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2023, 11:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 10:55:52 pmThat's mixing fundamentally objective and subjective concepts. It leads nowhere.Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 10:55:52 pmDefine better off. The human population has literally exploded, that is an objective measurement. In that regard, it may mean that humans are better off as a species.But it has grown so much that we are now pondering on how to curb it.Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 10:55:52 pmWould you prefer living a short, but very happy life, or a very long, unhappy, dull life? Note that everyone is very likely to have a completely different answer to this question.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 12:00:00 am
content: You kind of taken me by surprise. Also I did give an example with medicine. Would you accept a higher risk for your loved ones for some totally subjective thing like "more happiness"?Is the transistor a net negative for humanity's "happiness"? Also in which part of the world more exactly? US? UK? India? Everywhere?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 01:59:58 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 01:12:49 pmUltimately, people will not accept AI telling the truth.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 02:10:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 28, 2023, 01:59:58 amAt least, hopefully not.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 03:49:14 am
content: I don't get the "standard of living" argument. It seems to be based on rosy eyed support for 20th century "science (and money) begat everything" elitist parochialism, with differing simplistic definitions depending on the patriarchy involved (medical, economists etc). Rich people still lose loved ones through simple infection, perhaps even a result of overprescription of penicillin. Or worry longer on tenterhooks for their loved ones to die, simply by virtue of longer more reliable individual life. It's extremely subjective. Animals that were domesticated for companionship and general utility became 'must eats' in mechanised slaughter fests, then become valued for their sentience again. It's extremely variable, and not a single shift to better (or worse).Having said that, medicine does seem to be a no-brainer for an example of general improvement. I was thinking about this a few days ago, and I'll also add digital cameras and lasers to that list.But being conned into believing that a 9 to 9 job to not even cover rent is "improved", that's a hard sell. Life, for humans as an apex predator, used to be relatively easy (if not in a carefree sense). Something else has taken over - is it alive?I wonder what the AI entities will think about this, when determining our future.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 06:56:42 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on January 27, 2023, 06:02:28 pm“Artificial intelligence” is a term popularized in the first half of the 20th century, based on simplistic concepts now long considered outdated. A product of beliefs, mostly rooted in religion, which are not accepted as a part of knowledge for decades. Between late 50s and early 90s the term entered popular culture. Not only in the most shallow version and devoid of any philosophical depth, but also ignorant of any later advancements. In that form it survived until now, brought back to wide audience as a marketing tool to invoke purely emotional responses of “modern”, “technology” and “better”.Among people actually involved or interested in the subject, it is used only in informal (“fuzzy”) or whimsical manner. Neither the archaic notion of “intelligence” nor attempts to follow anthropocentric ideas are now a part of the research. If precision is required, terms more accurately describing the technology are used. Machine learning algorithms are usually the subject. This is what received enormous attention in recent years, when GPU computing allowed smortnets to grow in complexity.Quote from: Neutrion on January 27, 2023, 06:02:28 pmQuite opposite, I would say. Development doesn’t happen “because”. It seems it just happens. A consequence of humans being curious beings that, like everything, maximize survival chances. With that last part not being a choice either, if considered on population scale.Quote from: Neutrion on January 27, 2023, 06:02:28 pmYou are arguing a sarcasm now.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 11:53:23 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 27, 2023, 10:55:52 pmOk, fair enough, today is better than any time in history, if you look at it from very far. How about compared to 15 years ago? People don't talk to each other anymore, everyone is looking at their phone all the time, dating is ruined, inflation is out of control and many basic things are becoming unaffordable to the middle class. How is this better? Just look at some basic statistics. People are not getting married because dating apps ruined everything, and they are told that career is more important than family. More people than ever suffer from some kind of mental health problems. The democracy index has been in decline since 2008 or so, worldwide. Sure we invented absolutely mind boggling thigs like mRNA vaccines, and then some idiots are taking horse dewormers or say that they should invent some sort of internal disinfectors.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 01:15:01 pm
content: I think the general bullshit index has stayed constant throughout human history. We just get to see it more with all this turbo-improved access to information we have today. If people knew what kind of crap happened throughout the ages... Most of it has been taken out from (documented) history by the victors.These days humanity is only getting to know itself better. And as Dave mentioned, humanity doesn't accept it. What irks us is the fact that we know about it. But we all know it always happened as it does today.I'm not saying we're not a few steps away from total collapse. I'm just saying that your average Joe is way better off today than any hundred years chunks in the past. You get fleas you can buy a spray. You get a headache you pop a pill and forget about it. Want a varied diet? Accessible in many parts of the planet.Also in this discussion we need to take into account our goals as a species. Why are we doing all that we're doing? To wait for our deaths comfortably? To build something?I mean you could maybe argue from the point of view of someone counting his days, with no clear purpose. I mean sure, I guess. Office work is pretty shitty compared to just staying out in a field. Provided you have food and shelter, I guess staring in the distance might seem more appealing, than staring at spreadsheets.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 02:58:11 pm
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 28, 2023, 06:56:42 amWell, this chatbot, and the artistic ones following exactly anthropocentric ideas. And although strong AI maybe not, it would not make it less dangerous.After more than years of misery the EU just starte to think about FB algorithms, which are far simpler stuff, still the effects were not foreseen by society.Quote from: golden_labelsIt may seems so, but it doesn't. If it would be like that, we would still develop bio weapons on a mass scale, just because we can, actually could do it much better than before. There were also a huge amount of ridiculous nuclear stuff in the fifties. But society reacted and curbed down these things massively.Most of people also don't do jobs they are completely disagree with, or see it as harmful. Or if they do, they are not really effective at it.I see this as one of the main causes of China being the best in non secret mass surveilance technologies.I don't think that so many western engineers are so keen on working on this, having som ideas about the implications.In the middle ages many advancement was held off by the worldview of the society. When that changed, it became faster.If people would focus on what makes them really happy, and be a bit more methodic about it, the need for new gadgets could slow down, and developement also. Ideas about the 4 working days already show in this direction.In the sixties when enviromental problems became obvious people started to work on renewable energies, and mostly not those people who wanted to make a fast profit.This is why I said that the timeframe is the problem. If things are happening too fast these good mechanisms won't have the time to get through.Curiosity, and experiments are not necessasily leading to maximisation of survival chances.Evolutionary we might actually did the opposite during our "great" development age.Do not give monkeys a handgranade to experiment with it.Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 28, 2023, 02:10:34 amI am not that optimistic. There are masses of people without critical thinking out there.Also it is hard to tell the truth if you can't even define it.But the great stuff about the delyed choice quantum eraser experiment is, that now not just on macro scale philosophically, but also on the atomic scale it is obvious that the deterministic, materialistic, or developmentistworld view won't lead us anywhere. It is like when it was first explored that the world is round. Kind of a last second info to step on the brake. Just the message didn't get through yet.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2023, 03:06:23 pm
content: I don't think that's settled yet:

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 12:09:39 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on January 28, 2023, 02:58:11 pmI'm not either. For most people, the truth is whatever people that have higher authority than them have defined.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 01:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 28, 2023, 02:10:34 amDepends on the topic.I can guarantee that politicans will not allow AI to tell the truth about politics, they will ban it before that happens. The entire business of politics is built on the perception of "truth", not truth itself.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 04:49:13 pm
content: ChatGPT is one of several AI tools that is/will be available in 2023.It is a disruptive technology and it will change humanity over time, just like the mobile phone or the internet.It will replace many jobs: from help desks to phone services, from translators to general content generation.I have no doubt about that.As a University teacher, I have scheduled a meeting with all my department colleagues to explain them what ChatGPT is and what will change this semester: I will actively introduce students in my class (Programming in a non IT course) to ChatGPT and I am giving my colleagues a head start to prepare for the consequences.There are 3 possible reactions a University can have to ChatGPT:1) Simply ignore its existance2) Forbit its use3) Embrace itThose teachers who chose 1, will have all (!) students using ChatGPT to aid them in writing all sorts of essays, reports, etc. They will be scored for a document written by a software...Those who try to forbid it's use will be in the same situation as the former group, because they won't be able to detect if a text was written by ChatGPT. I have generated articles about random technical subjects and then submitted them to plagiarism software and the text were considered 100% genuine. The students I asked about ChatGPT all knew about it and some even tested if ChatGPT would produce the same text upon the same input made by different students (accounts and computers). The result were different texts! This means that you give the same subject to several groups and they all hand in different texts, all generated independently by ChatGPT.Also, I tried ChatGPT on different subjects I know about and the texts created were of surprisingly high quality. I even tried questions of current exams of mine (relative to CAD/CAM/CAE subjects) and the responses would get full scores.This means that ChatGPT has made it obsolete to ask students to write reports about some sujects. A machine will do it better and much quicker. Period.Want bibliographic references? Ask ChatGPT and it will provide you with the relevant keywords and tell you what databases to search. With little effort you get the references and you can plant them on the text generated by ChatGPT.I fell 100% confident to do a 30 minute presentation about ANY subject in the world if I get two hours of preparation with ChatGPT and Google. This is disruptive! I am no longer a specialist about a given subject, I am a specialist in using ChatGPT and Google to produce the content I need, as well as, to filter and process said information.And this is the key point one needs to focus: how to use ChatGPT to quickly learn about any subject or to quickly get the starting of an essay.Universities need to change the task of "write an essay about XYZ" to "use ChatGPT to obtain an essay about XYZ and then discuss the outcome, verify the statements and complete them".As a result, people will take less time to learn something, to get the relevant information.A different aspect is that ChatGPT presents wrong information on certain subjects like math or logic. It is fundamental to understand how ChatGPT works and where it will fail.Simple example: "5 machines produce 5 parts in 5 minutes - how long do 100 machines take to produce 100 parts?"Most people will answer 1 minute, 100 minutes or 500 minutes. The reason being that you need to correlate 3 things, while the brain normally is used to correlate just two items.As a result people might focus in 5 parts in 5 minutes and conclude 1 part takes 1 minute, forgetting that there were 5 machines.ChatGPT will give the wrong answer over and over.Same goes for simple algebra. While the result given looks very good, it is simply wrong.But all in all, this is an amazing technology!I expect to be able to call my bank and instead of having to fight through a stupid voice enabled option tree, I can just say what I want:"Hello, my name is Vitor XYZ, my birth date is xxxx, please unlock my credit card, because I keyd the wrong pin 3 times.""Sure. Can you please confirm me your VAT number?""It's 1234""Thank you. I am happy to inform you that your credit card is now unlocked. Anything else?""No. Bye"The same with any other service accessed through phone.And why should I worry about the content of our web site? I hope they offer us a service, where I specify the subjects and products, so that ChatGPT can generate new content every month.Next Microsoft Office Word will have a function where I start to write a report and after a few sentences, I click on AUTOCOMPLETE and the remaining report is written automatically.Same for emails.Hope I gave you some ideas...Regards,Vitor

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 06:08:57 pm
content: Yeah it clearly makes it harder for a teacher but depending on subject and level of implication in some cases you could weed out the AI generated content. But I guess it depends on the subject, and requires extra attention:

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2023, 11:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 29, 2023, 12:09:39 am'It never ceases to amaze me' just how true that is (not trying to be recursive).I guess it must be a result of being a social species. To a wolf "the food is over here" makes sense if you don't really know where it is. But an individual's sense of logic is not the purpose for a social species, maybe it takes an instinct for unshakeable belief to really avoid wasted duplicated effort and ensure the pack functions as one (minus any number of expendable individuals).

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 01:24:56 am
content: Quote from: golden_labels on January 28, 2023, 06:56:42 amA lot of them are not doing research exactly, they are building portfolio to get into a startup and get rich ASAP. They shy away from the term intelligence not because it's too ill defined, but because their money maker fundamentally can't get closer. There are still general intelligence conferences and researchers, there's just no money in it ... that's how you know it's researchSomething like Dreamcoder is research. Ever more elaborate ANN generators with ever larger networks, ever larger corpuses and ever more humans used during the supervised training is engineering.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 10:45:50 am
content: In case you're looking for a way to detect ChatGPT: DetectGPT: Zero-Shot Machine-Generated Text Detection using Probability Curvature (https://ericmitchell.ai/detectgpt/)

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 02:06:40 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 28, 2023, 03:06:23 pmThey are talking about going back in time. I did not say that. I said that there is no objective reality. It is observation dependent. Which is actually fully logical on the macro scale, but because we had exact measuring equipments in the last centuries, we had the illusion, that this is an illusion, because we can measure thing fully objectively. We may not it seems.Quote from: EEVblog on January 29, 2023, 01:14:43 pmBut it doesnt't work like this, that the politician goes with the audience into a big hall and asks the AI.Political oppinions(of politicians as well) are based on some science, some interpretation, some discussions about it. Now just a lot of interpretation and discussion will go missing, because people will get used to just ask the AI.Like Bicurio wrote later which I will respond to as well. Lets not read thorugh all that stuff , just use the AI to collect is. But this will be lessen the time and effort people will spend on the subjects and the details will be lost. Also human experts will have to debate with the AI. But after some tests to compare them, the humans will loose on many subjects, and that will be interpreted, as the AI being smarter.And of course the AI can be also biased intentionally by the creator which is also a trap.Just like now some "scientific evidence" in some popular topic-I don' want to name them of course, but I am not talking about the climate crisis because that one is really checked by many scientist for a long time now- is just bullshit, any anyone with a minimum IQ can debunk it, but is sold as science, and some politics is based on it. (Also I belive some politicians truly belive it, they are just like other people.)Quote from: Bicurico on January 29, 2023, 04:49:13 pmWell, than we just have to reorganize the whole university education system within a year in the whole world. Easily done isn't it?Also attaining something using the AI and not collecting it will mean less thinking about the whole subject. If you have some thoughts about a topic you clearly don't have a problem to write a lot about it.And if you have a good general idea, it will make it more difficult to weed out of the unknown incoherences of the AI created part.So this will make students focusing less on the subject, and more on how to use the AI.And when the whole university world got used to one AI there comes another or a modified one.But if university professors didn't have too much to do until now, from now on they can spend most of the time tackling the AI stuff, which will also change constantly, so the detection methods and usage methods would also constantly change. Also the political censorship will weed out a lot of things from the science, because some things will suddenly disapear from the studies and some will appear and that disproportionally."And why should I worry about the content of our web site? I hope they offer us a service, where I specify the subjects and products, so that ChatGPT can generate new content every month.Next Microsoft Office Word will have a function where I start to write a report and after a few sentences, I click on AUTOCOMPLETE and the remaining report is written automatically."And do you employ some people to actually doublecheck what you offer, or you just trust the AI blindly?And how does the autocomplete know what YOU wanted to write?BUT if everything works really well that means that humans are not needed for thinking. Than for what else are they needed for?

author: Richard_Oh2
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 02:49:57 pm
content: According to ChatGPT itself;QuoteHaving used the tool, and other AI tools before it, for many months, I believe that the technology presents more opportunities than threats. For most people, it's unlikely the technology will do anything other than make their jobs easier and more productive, used as our assistant rather than our replacement. It does throw up some challenges though. For example, having used it myself to write a facts and figures article, every single fact it produced was just wrong. It's one thing making up facts for a blog article, but another thing making up instructions for wiring up an electrical component.But the current technology, GPT3, is working from old data, Later this year, it will be incorporated into Bing and Google, and then GPT4 will come along and change everything again. In the end, it may be better at recognising untrue information than we are.As for education, I believe that students will end up being marked on the research rather than the report, as that's the bit which will show their understanding of the subject.Either way, look our for a new job role of AI Operator coming to job boards soon.Anyway, just my ramblings!

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:21:36 pm
content: The real problematic truth that will come from AI is that we humans don't have a "soul". Not more than it can have. Because what we call "soul" or "conscience" is just a side-effect of the multitude of things that are happening all at once in our brain. Lots of stuff deep down, lots of stuff on the surface. That creates "the conscience" as a side effect, it's something virtual that doesn't exist materially.And it's not something that will be told to us by the (general) AI, it's something we will observe while making that (general) AI. That is a very hard to swallow pill, for most people.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: Richard_Oh2 on January 30, 2023, 02:49:57 pmAnd did the AI lie in what it said, or did it tell the truth? Does it wan to tell the truth? What does it depend on, whether you trust the results? Now, and two weeks on or two hours?The students have the AI now so in about a year time you have to reorganise the whole education system. Is it good if only research is valued from now on, and no theoretical paper? If so, why wasn't it like that before?Quote from: bob808 on January 30, 2023, 03:21:36 pmActually in buddhistic philosophy anything can have its own consciusness, even a peace of stone. Though not the term "soul" is used. Which is also quiet logical. So yes, suffering can happen there as well, unless we can scientifically exclude it, which we can't see the objective reality vs observer paradoxon.And because human society already succesfully solved all the other moral problems in society, to not to talk about about the climate crisis, this will be an easy one too.

author: YurkshireLad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 03:57:14 pm
content: How long before students are taught by AI? No-one will need to check if students cheated because the AI will know.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 04:05:44 pm
content: The video you posted on physics questions is pretty much correct. The fact ChatGPT is able to communicate perfectly in various languages is impressive, yet does not mean its model of reality is correct. Many mistakes. I didn't try to discuss a bad result, maybe something similar happens as with Wikipedia: Who sorts out contradictory input? Majority vote?Regards, Dieter

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 04:30:18 pm
content: Quote from: YurkshireLad on January 30, 2023, 03:57:14 pmHopefully yet not controversial but let me ask you something more interesting: how long until the AI "identifies" with a human, and when do we start discriminating "it"?What I want to say is, would it matter if for all intents and purposes it behaves and has the results of a real human?

author: Poe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 07:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 28, 2023, 01:59:58 am"truth"?...AI?? What!?AI gives what it gets and filters based on the bias of its teachers.... as you have seen.People have intentionally trained AI systems on dubious sources like 4CHAN. You should see that "truth".

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 07:35:19 pm
content: Isn't that how humans do it as well? If you have someone that only lurks on 4chan, what "truth" will you get out of them? Shit in/shit out applies to people and machines

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2023, 08:24:57 pm
content: ChatGPT is just an algorithm with a huge database and a trained neural network, which by itself is basically a statistical treatment.There is no intelligence or self-awareness.Also, all that ChatGPT and Dall-E produce is based on content created by humans.Truth is a human concept that often depends on the point of view. What is true for one person might ne false for another one. What might be true today, could be debunked as false tomorrow, including science.ChatGPT is not aware on what truth is. It calculates the weights of the input words and calculates the most probable first output word. Then it uses the input and output words to calculate which is the best next word. This is repeated until the generated text reaches the desired length. This is of course just a simplification. But all there is is a calculation that determines the next word in a sequence of words. No intelligence or self-awareness.For me, the disruptiveness of this technology is that it accelerates and automates content creation. At the same time it allows to learn new things in less time, is used correctly.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 02:54:05 am
content: I think the greatest change will start in about 5-10 years…The divide and types of differences between white and blue collar workers is going to explode. Everywhere.Politics(as usual) will take another decade to catch up, butwill probably be too late, with massive social upheaval and inequity with people from both sides that can’t adapt to the new reality.What might be more interesting is the necessity of otherwise incompatible ideologies that MUST work together to reinstate peace and harmony in their communities.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 06:10:18 am
content: Quote from: SL4P on January 31, 2023, 02:54:05 amWell, it has already. But yes, in a sense, we are going backwards rather than forwards in terms of inequality, and a lot of what happened during the XXth century that has seen the rise of the "middle class" is rather rapidly getting canceled, with the middle class in many western countries collapsing at a never-seen rate compared to last century. The trend is already there, it didn't wait for all this AI frenzy. AI will not per se trigger it, it's already triggered. It will merely be a means to an end.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 06:55:56 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on January 30, 2023, 04:05:44 pmIt doesn't have a model of reality, it just has high order statistics. It's amazing how much can be caught in just statistics, but generators have some fundamental limits. They can't apply procedure and to model non trivial systems you need procedural algorithms.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:24:47 am
content: ChatGPT pretends to have a model of reality and to know things and that this isn't as good as its communication capability. Maybe you did not understand what i wrote.Anyway, there is some mathematics and some other faculties in the make. Maybe they can collaborate with Wikipedia to get things right.Regards, Dieter

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:26:19 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 30, 2023, 03:21:36 pmYou don't know any of that for a fact. But it is the "scientific" basis which much of the world follows if not believes as its fundamental truth. Leading to the conclusion that Blake Lemoine was unavoidably right. And the more interesting conclusion that a fully deterministic system can be conscious therefore possess both free will and a soul. So yes, problematic.Quote from: bob808 on January 30, 2023, 03:21:36 pmThat kind of already has happened.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 12:03:53 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 30, 2023, 08:24:57 pmYou can not really define what is self aware. If we would suppose something is self aware because it makes unexpected things, than a wrong washing machine would fit the definition as well.And even if something would tell you that it become self aware, how do you know it has?And if it has but it didn't tell you?But the thing is, as we are discussing it now, that even a not self aware thing can do a lot of harm. Just see the bubbling algorythm of FB. They are pretty easy to understand, but the effects on society was unpredictable. (Well actually not, but no one gave a shit I suppose.)Other problem is, that the methods how these AIs are trained is completely out of any democratic oversight. The natural one become a nazi, so I suppose there is already some taming and modification about what it HAS to think or ansver. And there you have a censorship without any oversight, just like with FB, which is also not solved yet, the algorythms are still not openly aviable.(How many people and politician would understand them is another question.)In the last few years I repeatedly asked myself, how issues which affect less than one person out of thousands could become mainstream in the media and society.While other affecting way more people are almost completely hidden. Did someone fiddle with some algorythm?So oversiht would be crucial.PS.:There will be soon an EU US high level political meeting about AI. Will it get at least one tenth of the media coverage like some BS recently?

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 12:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 30, 2023, 04:30:18 pmCheck the term "philosophical zombie".I have to add that every time, when I identify myself as a woman and being in a public shower, I really feel other women discriminating and even hating me, just because I look like a man, and have a massive boner.When we are there together with my friend the T-800 it is even worse, although "she" has a really nice smily face, and not leaking any oil. So yes humans are evil, but my friend mentioned a good AI based soulution for the problem.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 09:09:05 pm
content: QuoteI think this fits best for a more advanced ChatGPT version.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:12:07 pm
content: Question: How can we make ChatGPT join a discussion on an internet forum?Answer by ChatGPT: ChatGPT can't join a discussion on an internet forum as it is a text-based language model developed by OpenAI, and it doesn't have the capability to participate in internet forums. However, you can integrate it into a chatbot application or a website that allows users to interact with it in a conversational manner, providing answers to their questions based on its training data.Question: Are you a behavioral zombie?Answer by ChatGPT: No, I am not a behavioral zombie. I am an AI language model created by OpenAI, designed to generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I don't have feelings, emotions, or consciousness, and my responses are generated based on patterns in the data I was trained on, not on personal experiences or decisions.Regards Dieter

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:48:20 pm
content: The current ChatGPT is clearly less than a behavioral zombie.This discussion reminded me of this terrifying though experiment:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko's_basiliskQuoteSo be warned, I guess.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 10:52:13 pm
content: Been trying for a while to get into it but there's too many users. I think they created a monster.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 11:25:50 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on January 31, 2023, 10:52:13 pmI think they started scaling back the access in preparation to a paid tier roll-out. They collected all the test data they need, generated a lot of publicity, there is no reason to waste more money on this.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2023, 11:40:13 pm
content: https://beta.elevenlabs.io/"AI" for speech

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 12:05:28 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 31, 2023, 11:40:13 pmI got a couple of tries before it wanted me to create an account, but yea nice voices. Just run the output of ChatGPT through it and you'd have a lot of fun.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 12:54:42 am
content: It directly asks me to make an account.This could be used to generate audio books from PDFs/epub files.Here's a sample for the tech:

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 05:27:33 am
content: I just found a new AI-based entertainment. There is this Twitch channelhttps://www.twitch.tv/watchmeforeverthat translates an infinite AI generated version of Seinfeld. Dialogs and "video".It has been going for days apparently. Jokes are "AI weird", but some are quite fun and it is genuinely watchable as a background.Not sure if it just a huge pre-generated video though, it might eventually repeat.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 11:18:44 am
content: OpenAI releases tool to detect machine-written text (https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/openai-chatgpt-detector-tool-machine-written-text).Tool:https://platform.openai.com/ai-text-classifier

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 12:09:54 pm
content: Quote from: madires on February 01, 2023, 11:18:44 amWell -QuoteWhat if your teacher runs your essay through it and tells you it's an AI generated essay, but you say it isn't? What happens then?

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 12:13:22 pm
content: Interesting idea. I guess ideally you'd make ChatGPT somehow spike the generated text but that's kind of complicated, and people could figure it out eventually. This tool they released seems to work best on at least 1000 words texts.I think the best way is to fight fire with fire, and have AI (eventually) test the students

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 03:36:01 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 01, 2023, 12:09:54 pmThen the teacher calls the student in and asks them questions about their text.It'll soon be obvious if they wrote it themselves or not.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 03:37:45 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 01, 2023, 03:36:01 pmWhat if they can answer the questions correctly because they read the essay?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 04:14:33 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 01, 2023, 03:37:45 pmBut you can also chat around the topic. If the essay involved a book, you can chat about other stuff in that book that was not a part of the essay.But the accusation itself may be damaging, so they would need to be really sure or it would be the facial recognition for dark skinned people fiasco all over again.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 04:38:35 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 01, 2023, 03:37:45 pmI was thinking questions along the lines of, "when you wrote XXX in the essay what did you mean, exactly?"If they can fill you in on the details then they know the subject and they pass.nb. It could also be the case that they really know the subject but couldn't be bothered to sit for hours and write it down.

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 04:51:05 pm
content: A qualified university teacher must be able to identify that easily within a few minutes during a face to face meeting/exam. Of course, there is always the question whether the teacher is qualified enough, or not..

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 04:54:15 pm
content: ChatGPT allows to optimize and shorten the research.It is not only about handing in essays that are written by ChatGPT.Think of it like before and after the internet.To do research about a subject you had to go to the library and search the index for book titles. Then you had to find them and check if they had useful content.That took quite some time. With the internet and online research, the time has been dramatically reduced. As a result you are either expected to do the same research in less time or with more content.This research is again reduced by means of ChatGPT. Without knowing anything about a given subject, you can learn about it without any research in well written texts which are short and precise. Also, you get all key words to extend your learning.This is revolutionary and should be endorsed.Handing in simple essays about a subject is obsolete as of now.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 05:29:17 pm
content: Using ChatGPT for "research" is even worse than using Wikipedia as your only source. You will not learn anything you can trust to any degree. It makes up stuff all the time, it is made to make up stuff.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 06:29:16 pm
content: When I wrote research, I did not mean it in an academic meaning.Imagine you know nothing about liquid crystals. It takes you literally 2 minutes to get from zero to a generic overview using ChatGPT.It works for most subjects, at least the many I have tried so far.Where ChatGPT fails completely is in math, despite the notification that they updated the algorithm for math problems.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 06:44:41 pm
content: But that's what Wikipedia does already. If I know nothing about a topic, I just read the wiki article and get an overview that is written and verified to some extent by humans. It may not be entirely correct or miss some details, but it sure will be better than a random text.For initial research use whatever gets the job done, I guess, but I don't see ChatGPT as a clear leader here.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 07:01:19 pm
content: ChatGPT was for example able to answer correctly the questions of my last exam. Like I literally write the question in Portuguese and got the correct answer in Portuguese.This does not work on all type of questions, but it does on most.I have used Wikipedia a lot in the past and I can guarantee that my extensive tests against ChatGPT resulted in ChatGPT clearly winning, when it comes to getting a quick and precise response to a question.For cheating, ChatGPT, if just ignored by teachers, is the ultimate tool. It produces better texts than the average student. Schools and Universities will have to quickly adapt to this new reality.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 07:52:59 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on February 01, 2023, 07:01:19 pmThat is because a machine can scan Wikipedia more efficiently than you

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 07:59:59 pm
content: Is it possible these days to have an exam without any digital devices? No digital displays, just pen and paper. No smartwatch, no phone, no laptop.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2023, 08:05:05 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on February 01, 2023, 06:29:16 pmLets say you know nothing about liquid crystals but want to know if it's appropriate for your problem domain. You can do lit research and find out, or you can ask ChatGPT ... and then you still need to do lit research to know if its statements made any sense.It can give you enough answers to factual questions about known facts to pass a humanities exam, but it can't really give you anything beyond that. It can't even multiply.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 04:25:18 pm
content: Yippee I'm in on ChatGPT. Was talking with some local hams and some of them wanted to ask it questions. One guy didn't seem impressed, he thought he could break it by asking it "Ha ha well ask it this: how do I build a phasing harness for a 20 meter vertical array?"It gave a very detailed seven point answer. He wasn't laughing after that, but I was.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:24:23 pm
content: You can easily break it still. Someone asked it to write a recipe for cooking cow eggs, and it responded with a chicken egg recipe just that it also used "cow eggs" in its response. But not in English. Same with "scuba diver eggs"

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:27:45 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 02, 2023, 05:24:23 pmApparently they trained it better about that.Just asked this "Can you use cow eggs in a recipe?"Response -"Cow eggs are not commonly used in cooking or consumed as food. Cows are mammals and do not lay eggs. The eggs that are commonly used in cooking and consumed as food come from chickens."

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:36:32 pm
content: I might make an account just to see if I can break it, in english. Tho this is also training it, which I'm not sure I want to do. But people are training it constantly so I might as well have some fun.Does making a new account still asks for a phone number?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:42:11 pm
content: https://www.engadget.com/microsoft-openai-investment-expansion-152302151.htmlAutomatic meeting notes for teams call. And that's just the beginning. Businesses are going to flock to these features.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:48:27 pm
content: Hold on to your wallets! This tech is going to be weaponized against them.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2023, 05:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 02, 2023, 05:36:32 pmYes.It's giving red error text now "An error occurred. If this issue persists please contact us through our help center at help.openai.com."Probably too many users ...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 01:45:20 am
content: Question to ChatGPT -Me:Can you describe the eevblog and how it is useful to electronics enthusiasts?ChatGPT:The EEVblog is a popular YouTube channel and blog created by electronics engineer and enthusiast David L. Jones. The channel focuses on providing in-depth, educational content for electronics enthusiasts and professionals, covering a wide range of topics such as electronics design, repair, and testing. The content is designed to be accessible to people with a wide range of skill levels, from beginner hobbyists to experienced engineers.The EEVblog is particularly useful for electronics enthusiasts because it provides detailed and practical information on a wide range of topics in a clear and concise manner. David's explanations and demonstrations are easy to follow, and he covers a wide range of subjects, from basic electronics concepts to complex design and repair challenges. Additionally, the blog also includes a large community of enthusiasts who can offer support, advice, and share their own experiences and projects.In summary, the EEVblog is a valuable resource for anyone interested in electronics, offering a wealth of information, tutorials, and discussion for enthusiasts at all levels.Note: The answer was returned in I'd say less than 1/4 second.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 05:01:30 am
content: oh-oh...the basilisk knows about Dave.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 05:11:05 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 02, 2023, 05:27:45 pm"Design a left-handed screwdriver"

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 05:26:44 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 02, 2023, 05:27:45 pmMore likely they are adding on an expert system as they go so trip questions don't keep tripping it up.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 07:41:25 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 03, 2023, 01:45:20 amI typed a single word into google and got this:Links to the site, links to the forums... far more useful.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 12:06:59 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 03, 2023, 05:11:05 amAnswer -QuoteI submitted feedback to the system explaining what the right answer was, that is used to make it respond better and better as time goes on.When I googled "left handed screwdriver", this is the first explanation (at the top of the page ) you get -QuoteThat's the screw not the screwdriver. Also the first picture it shows is a joke screwdriver that is "left handed" but in reality is not different than a "regular" screwdriver.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 12:56:29 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 03, 2023, 12:06:59 pmFor years, I had a ratchet screwdriver, which depending upon the setting of the ratchet, could have been called a "right hand screwdriver" or a "left hand screwdriver".I don't know what happened to it, but it was rarely used---the number of times when such a driver is useful is surprisingly small.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 01:11:17 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 03, 2023, 12:56:29 pmI thought I would get real cute and try left handed hammers ... but there actuallyareleftandright handed hammers ---https://www.bigrocksupply.com/store/p/7078-Left-Hand-Slate-Hammer.aspx

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 08:10:09 pm
content: Quote from: EPTech on January 02, 2023, 06:44:51 amhttps://xkcd.com/534/

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 08:17:14 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 02, 2023, 04:25:18 pmI asked google the same question. It found 'About 4,230,000 results'.Maybe you'll find those 7 points in the first few results ?

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:30:30 pm
content: Not sure if real or if real if it still works:https://twitter.com/semenov_roman_/status/1621465137025613825

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:36:34 pm
content: oh yeah seems to be real. people on hackernews tried it and is real.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 02, 2023, 04:25:18 pmAn answer can be found in pretty much any ARRL Handbook. One does not have to have AI brains to find this information.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:49:16 pm
content: What I see in this thread is just a statement (or a comfirmation) that this thingy is nothing more than a better search engine. I am yet to see the " intelligence" part, that is - when analysis of known information results in net new solutions.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2023, 11:49:34 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on February 03, 2023, 11:39:17 pmYou obviously have not met the local hams I know.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 06:37:23 am
content: Quote from: Bud on February 03, 2023, 11:49:16 pmIt could be, if it provided citations. Which is probably possible, but for the moment you never know if it's spitting reinterpreted facts or hallucinations and it doesn't give you the references to find out.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 07:16:25 am
content: One of my favourite things to do with ChatGPT is get it to write poems about utterly stupid stuff.I dunno why, it just find it entertaining.QuoteQuote

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 08:06:49 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 04, 2023, 07:16:25 amIt gives the Vogons a run for their money.https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Vogon_poetry

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 10:43:31 am
content: ChatGPT failing the Voight-Kampff test:(1)QuoteAny human would start blabbing about watching “Blade Runner”.(1)A manual transcript; any misspellings are probably my error, not smortnet’s.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 11:04:36 am
content: Woke mob got to ChatGPT?I'll just leave this here.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 12:40:09 pm
content: It is pretty annoying how they block/limit chatGPT from giving answers to some questions or on some subjects.Or how they add hidden text to your queries to prompt it to give all viewpoints on a subject instead of the viewpoint you asked it talk about.Ya cant really blame the AI for this, it's being heavily limited and filtered.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 01:03:49 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 04, 2023, 11:04:36 amYes the discussion on this subject started quite a few years back, when first iterations were citing statistics that weren't politically correct. That and also the fact that the woke mob heavily influenced a good portion of western young coders.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 07:10:57 pm
content: Influenced? I thought theyarethe woke mob

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2023, 10:50:12 pm
content: I make the difference between the organizations that come up with the bullshit and the young folk they brainwash.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 12:47:16 am
content: Just on principle I'm going to be careful about trusting the "truth" of a far-right truther, when compared against other truths, realities (which definitely differ), and 'alternative facts' which at some point(s) are going to match with observed or even real facts.ChatGPT seems capable of having varying opinions in different contexts (prompts) or just random:Quote(it was asked to be "shocking" (I assume), again, context)One day it will have greater insight into the human condition (it already knows through linguistic association, but I mean an overall appreciation of existential reason). Then we might find AI not so woke. This oversight might even turn out essential for the survival of humanity.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 03:02:38 am
content: Both extremes proved to be equally stupid many times.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 06:44:22 am
content: Yes, but so did the middle.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 12:55:01 pm
content: The extreme left has a real issue with centrists, they can't stand letting them be. Trying to constantly pushing them out of that position.The rightoids don't care that much about center oriented people.Taking a center position yields you the least friends in online debates, but most people in real life have moderate views.The left's problem with centrists is that they define de middle ground. If the left can move the centrist position, the extreme left can make itself look somewhat more normal.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 12:59:56 pm
content: Yeah I remembered there's this meme that represents the concept.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 02:47:20 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 05, 2023, 12:55:01 pmTherewasan "extreme left" at one time.They had names like "the Baader–Meinhof Group", or the "Japanese Red Army Faction", & were very scary guys indeed.Nowadays, some of the more radical Right (especially in the USA) like to use the label for those who advocate such horrors as a universal health scheme, or support Unions "OMG!, How could they?"I suppose everybody is entitled to have a hobby, & if calling everybody you disagree with silly names is theirs, may they have much joy of it!

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2023, 03:13:30 pm
content: You're not far whatever if you only outdo the most extreme historical ones. You're far any side if you stray too far from the middle, from common sense. Absolutely ok to call out stupidity on both sides.Having accessible healthcare is not a stupid. How and why would you frame it like that? "Oh I'm far left? So what, you want people to just die without affording medical bills?"

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 02:47:13 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 05, 2023, 03:13:30 pmThe problem is that there are many on the right side of politics who think exactly like that, & my point is that they are always ready to throw around the currently popular "swearwords" of that group.At the moment, we are seeing ridiculous, over the top, outrage from people about things, of which whilst some may indeed be described as "stupid", are not the existential threat to society that they are being portrayed as.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 08:02:18 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 05, 2023, 12:59:56 pmI see that meme as a mirror image, with the right having run further and further away from centre, dragging the centre with them in some sort neoliberal panic (blinkers on race to the end of infinite consumerist growth, convenient denial of inequality etc). Ok maybe recently the pendulum has been swinging back, carrying all its baggage at once with it - but there are quantifiably obvious reasons for the reaction.The real problem with centrists is that they exist in this echo chamber they call the "news" and think in terms of concepts like "society", "authority", "money", "science", "economy", "growth", "progress" and so on as if they are real. They add shifting mass to the pendulum, a predictable instability. They think they are correct, they "know" - in common with the extreme left, and right.Ok, maybe I jest just a wee bit, but I'm becoming more convinced with every passing minute that humanity requires these AI overlords to continue its current path without a particularly sticky end. It doesn't matter whether we think it is sentient, it just has to be better than a democratic majority.(Right, where's that /sermon tag on the toolbar...)

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 10:11:10 am
content: Talking about democracy and parties appears a bit oldfashioned. Recent news was that Microsoft increased its share in OpenAI by 2 billion US$. Thiel and/or Musk will do the same if they think they may have a future impact.Here in Brasil people no longer ask about left versus right but they go after the money. Who paid for the January 8th attacks? For example they found that many of those busses each carrying 30 or 40 people to Brasilia from all over the country were hired for the price of one ticket..Regards, Dieter

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 10:46:48 am
content: Both extremes constantly pull to each side, it is when centrists decide to move that things actually change, centrists define normality in the end. Hence why they are a juicy target, especially for the left as I've personally noticed.Centrists shouldn't average out the craziness on both sides, they should pick the useful things that make sense, from the extremes.ChatGPT and similar tools have great potential for change, and hence shouldn't be taken over by any of the extremes or things can go sideways really fast. In the end, bottom line, it is always about money and power/control, not the good of society (for the extremes).

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 10:55:57 am
content: Quote from: adx on February 06, 2023, 08:02:18 amThis meme does not show the extreme left or the extreme right "redefining" the center. They can't do that. That meme only shows the craziness imbalance between extremes. These two are very different concepts.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 01:40:30 pm
content: Ok maybe not mirror image, the mod below (brought to you by the magic of MSpaint) was more what I meant. The original intent of the meme is just not a reality I am familiar with - maybe some years ago I would have understood it. I don't think biological centre (social optimum) and political centre (crowdsourced truth) have any more than a passing resemblance these days.My point was the world is full of stupid people, left right and centre - maybe there is no one left to steer the ship. So put it on MSautopilot. (That might be where my dystopian plotline generator should run out of steam.)I meant democratic in the absolute loosest of senses.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 03:32:41 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on February 01, 2023, 07:01:19 pmThis will mean that people would be doing even less research than having to read a wiki article, with even more confidence than before.If science would be based on this, or university exams, that would mean , that the the basic understanding would be substituted with the AI, and all the rest would be like cardhouse based on that.Many dumb politicians (and there are lots of them) will base important decisions on this to have to work even less.So if students from now on would really base any research on this that would be the outsourcing of knowledge and thinking.Because of this from now on there will have to be no written papers accepted, where students have net access, during the time of writing. So at least personal oral exams in every faculty. Easily done I suppose.And this is just one first little stuff...Quote from: golden_labels on February 04, 2023, 10:43:31 amWhat was here written of this by the program?

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 04:05:20 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on January 31, 2023, 10:48:20 pmBut! If two or more AI would raise in about the same time, than each of them would blackmail those who are working on the opposing one. So in that scenario you rather not do any research to prevent the disaster. If "benevolent" would allow any torture for good. Because than evil will be hard to define.Not to talk about the practical fact that serious research on AI will soon be like research was in Los Alamos. Everybody locked in, and monitored. Those not, easily killed by opposing governments, and different activists, agencies. So it will be no fun time working on it.And yes immediately there should be fully transparent democratic oversight about the "filtering". Because that one could also go wrong in many ways as discussed here.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 07:14:40 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on February 06, 2023, 03:32:41 pmHey, at least they'll be usingdatato make the decision.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 08:06:29 pm
content: ChatGPT and alike are not to be forbidden by schools. Instead students should be educated to use them as a tool.The same goes for the internet, Wikipedia or the CAS calculator.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2023, 11:09:46 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 05, 2023, 02:47:20 pmThe extreme left has many faces, and one should learn how to identify it. Because no good ever came from either extreme views, if history taught us anything.Quote from: bob808 on February 05, 2023, 12:55:01 pmThe left clearly took it too far, and correction is coming. The issue is that big tech and universities have this entrenched extremist view and cancel culture, and they somehow managed to marginalize the majority of people. Which is usually the time when people get their pitchforks and torches and burn it all down. And I'm hope I'm wrong, if things can be resolved peacefully.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 02:44:43 am
content: I normally wouldn't care that much what happens in American politics. My country's issues are pretty much different from theirs. We do have free healthcare for anyone and we're paying high taxes on our salaries. And I'm not complaining (apart from politicians stealing a bunch of it).My problem with America's bullshit is that it leaks into my country without me having a vote in it. ChatGPT and other "products" influence our society with their values that we don't get to vote on, and that represents a real issue for me. We don't need their trojan horses.Apple is regulated by the EU, they must comply with certain standards if they are to sell their product here. Why shouldn't ChatGPT and such tools be subjected to the same rules? Its implications can be profound and I don't agree for a US political party to control or define "the truth" for the society I live in.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 08:20:12 pm
content: This IS a freaking trojan horse, however you look at it and whether this is intentional or not.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2023, 11:25:27 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 07, 2023, 08:20:12 pmIt's just the beginning -Quote

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:00:27 am
content: Hey ChatGPT, sort out my mp3s.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 05:16:59 pm
content: ChatGPT didn't pass the Bavarian Abitur (diploma from German secondary school qualifying for university admission or matriculation):https://www.br.de/nachrichten/netzwelt/chatgpt-schafft-die-ki-das-bayerische-abitur,TVBjrXE(in German)

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2023, 10:29:15 pm
content: Things are moving fast and Google is in shambles atm:

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 02:58:54 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 09, 2023, 10:29:15 pmThat google presentation was just embarressing. If I had shares I'd bail now.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2023, 12:18:13 pm
content: Microsoft's payback for all the times Bing has been use to search for Google.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2023, 10:36:17 pm
content: Thundef00t's take. He's right.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 01:10:02 pm
content: Saw this last night but had to think about it for a while.I dunno Dave, I don't think we can go back in time so it's going to be the reality now. I guess we'll deal with it the way we deal with the following -Electronic calculators: We don't get numerical answers to equations with pencil and paper anymore, we plug in the numbers and let the calculator (or computer) get the answer (at our direction).Mechanical drawings: We don't do mechanical drawings with pencil and paper anymore, the computer draws all the lines (at our direction).Trip planning: We don't buy a MAPSCO book or paper map to plan a long trip, we type into a map program where we want to start and end and let it figure out the best route (at our direction).The key idea going on here is -at our directionSo in the same way -Essays: We don't write essays anymore, we direct ChatGPT (et. al.) to make one at our direction, on the subject of our choice. So the task is not to write it from scratch, but to get the AI to make the best essay we want (at our direction). Like the CAD program, we use it as a tool to draw. We use ChatGPT as a tool to write. The teacher will grade you on your ability to use the tool creatively. I don't know any other way forward in this future we have come upon.Here the teacher demos how to use ChatGPT, how to find out if the text was written by AIHow to defeat the AI detection using ChatGPT itself by giving instructionsAnd how to get Chat GPT to make a better essay based on it's previous result using our own instructional directives. This is how you will get the best out of ChatGPT or other similar AI.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6cp89S6W8M&ab_channel=Teacher%27sTechSo, as with the calculator and CAD, we use the computing tool to get the written results we want. The better we are at using the tool, the better our results will be. I don't see any other way to approach it other than what we've done in the past with calculators and the other tasks computers have replaced.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 09:35:32 pm
content: Yep. Maybe essay writing is an obsolete context.I've long suspected it already was, but this just hammers the final nails in the coffin.Another thing altogether is writing a paper on a particular project that you're involved in. AI isn't going to know the specifics of that.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 11:09:17 pm
content: The bit in the LTT WAN show starting at43:29about the new openAI built into bing is very impressive and jawdropping.Unlike chatGPT, the bing openAI has internet access!Keep watching after the 'backpacks in a tesla' bit, it gets even better.

author: YurkshireLad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 11:32:54 pm
content: Funny, I just read an article that said the new Bing search was crap and full of lies.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 11:35:59 pm
content: And its internal prompts were recently dumped via a prompt injection attack. It must be great to have a system exposed to everyone that takes inputs you can't control from anyone on the internet.Its internal name is Sydney, which it was instructed to not disclose to anyone. Yet it does if you ask it nicely

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2023, 11:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: YurkshireLad on February 13, 2023, 11:32:54 pmDepends what you ask it, and what lies it was accidently trained on.It's also an AI so it will never be perfect.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 12:50:46 am
content: Quote from: YurkshireLad on February 13, 2023, 11:32:54 pmJust like the old one?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 01:09:39 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 14, 2023, 12:50:46 amI used Bing as a primary search engine some years back. It was fine for my use, and actually better for obscure stuff like undocumented part numbers. It somehow managed to index all sorts of sketchy places like PUDN.But its interface is way too heavy with that huge image it loads every time. At the time they had bing rewards, which you could convert into useful things. Microsoft paid my Hulu subscription for like 6 months. But then I got banned from this because I used a python script to generate dummy searches to reach daily capI abandoned it after that. Not that I needed the money, but they are really annoying with their rewards thing because every time you go to the page, on the right top you would see a highlighted notification for those rewards creating a distraction. And there is no way to disable it.I've heard that you need to install Edge and make it your default browser to use that AI nonsense. That would be a hard pass, even if that thing is the best search in the world.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 01:21:58 am
content: Resistance is futile, you will be assimilatedPlain stupid for me ...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:38:38 am
content: Tom Scott's take:

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:47:36 am
content: Yeah, that is the real question, isn't it.Where are we on the curve right now.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 07:49:25 pm
content: I actually used it for the first time tonight. I was about to do some C coding, double buffering, etc. etc. to calculate in db the signal level of some audio.It's not that I needed ChatGPT to tell me how to do these things, but as something you can run questions by and have it spit out code is actually useful. I also like how you can stop it, redirect it or rephrase your question and it remembers the context.Like I stated to it. "I want to do double buffering in C"It went off on a tagent about graphics double buffering and gave me an example of the SDL framework.So I stopped it and said, "No I mean general double buffering"And then it gave me a much more appropriate answer and code.Same thing for asking it about audio energy calculations, rolling averaging windows and reduce down resampling.Again it's not that I needed ChatGPT to give me that code and to be honest, the only bit I copied verbatim (and actually needed to look up) was the conversion to db.It's just that it provides an interesting sounding board. For example, "I need a queue, I can reorder", you could hmm and haaa and think of 6 different ways of doing it, and/or you could ask ChatGPT and see how close it comes to your thoughts and help sway you one way or other. It might give you the solution you know won't work this time, but tell it that and see what it comes up with next. I found myself nodding and saying, "Hmmm, yea, that works. Except maybe...."As to generating code snippets to save you typing them. Meh. It's probably faster to type them out that fix what you C&P from ChatGPT.It leaves open the question of... how do you spot these in interviews. If the person can literally have you question "speech to text" and sent to ChatGPT live.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 14, 2023, 08:38:38 amWanted to share this as well.I was thinking, at some point we're going to have issues figuring out which one of us is a real person, even on forums on more meaningful/longer form discussions.Older accounts may get a "before ChatGPT/certified human" badge

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 08:59:33 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 14, 2023, 07:49:25 pmI found it quite good to just write a long paragraph about the entire thing I wanted it to write. It seemed to understand correctly most of the time.There is a tendency to keep sentences short and simple when talking to an AI, like talking to a 3 year old, but it doesn't really work that way.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2023, 10:37:53 pm
content: Also do not confuse the product with the technology. The product might be "mild" but the tech is pretty capable.Here's an example of out of bounds behavior for this product (ChatGPT), that gives you an idea about the technology, and future abilities. Cursing like a sailor:

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 03:34:06 am
content: haha yeah.There's lots of human limits being wrapped around the AI models to try keep them in line.They are all scrabbling to try add hard-coded checks on top of an AI with predicable results.It's probably going to end up being many sanity-checking AIs all trained to sit between the human asking the question and the Core AI replying and filtering stuff out. But given that anyone can train and release an unfiltered AIs I doubt heavily filtered AIs are going to gain much traction. I think people will just learn to understand and accept that AI responses are not ethical / moral or politically correct.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 07:37:14 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 15, 2023, 03:34:06 amCompletely forgetting about the existence of politicians.Never change, nerdsI, for one, anticipate much fun

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 09:11:26 am
content: oh i'm not forgetting the politicians.They will definitely try to regulate it to hell, but their efforts are going to be about as useful as the RIAA trying to go after Napster.Is the filtered AI trying to make you buy goods from a specific brand, or giving you views biased to some agenda?The desire, and maybe need, to have access to an unfiltered AI is just going to be too strong.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:18:38 pm
content: I played with ChatGPT for a while last night and only caught one problem. I asked it to list the NBA champions for the last ten years. It claimed the NBA champion for 2022 and 2023 were the Milwaukee Bucks, but that is wrong (it was the Golden State Warriors in 2022 and there is no champ yet for 2023). It's information is only accurate up to 2021. So it shouldn't have tried to include the last ten years from this date and fill in the blanks. I reported that.However, all the other conversations with it were pretty much indistinguishable from a human on the other end and had no errors.I'd say it's fairing a lot better than the Bing Chat AIQuote

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 12:41:38 pm
content: Throw more neurons at it, then split it into millions or even billions of loosely connected instances, and report back when the result is something other than 42.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 03:31:11 pm
content: QuoteHas anybody asked it what the great question is yet?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 03:43:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 15, 2023, 03:31:11 pmGood question and I want to know, but I can't ask it now!Quote

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 05:43:22 pm
content: If we optimize for higher upload bandwidth then we'd have to speak to it, writing to it can be useful for technical things/formulas but a lot of info can be sent faster verbally. As far as download goes you'd receive it audio and video. Couple that with a nice set of AR glasses and you've got the beginning of a Black Mirror episode, IRL.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 06:20:10 pm
content: It's OK, Bing is never mistaken and will tell you so in no uncertain termshttps://mastodon.social/@malwaretech@infosec.exchange/109864646899163550

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 07:43:27 pm
content: Quote from: artag on February 15, 2023, 06:20:10 pmI would not trust those screenshots right away without confirmation. It is very easy to tell it to be combative an then not screenshot that part of the conversation.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 09:45:26 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 15, 2023, 03:31:11 pmMe: HelloChatGpt: Hello! How can I assist you today?Me: what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything?ChatGPT: "The meaning of life, the universe, and everything" is a famous phrase from Douglas Adams' science fiction book "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". In the book, a group of hyper-intelligent beings build a supercomputer called Deep Thought to calculate the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything. After much contemplation, Deep Thought's answer is revealed to be "42", which is a humorous response that has been the subject of much speculation and interpretation.However, in reality, the question of the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is a philosophical and existential one that has puzzled humanity for centuries. The answer to this question is subjective and varies from person to person. Some people find meaning in their religious beliefs, while others find it in their personal relationships, their work, their passions and hobbies, or in helping others. Ultimately, the meaning of life is a personal and individual question that each person must answer for themselves.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 10:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on February 13, 2023, 11:09:17 pmYeah, they completely lost their sht when it answered the backpack question correctly, and I did too.The usage of google search is a big part of an engineering job. The skill to find relevant info. Asking the question from the AI is going to be the next relevant skill we have to learn ASAP to stay the best in our job. Or, you know, we will be the old grandpa who doesn't know how to use the VCR.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 10:07:40 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 15, 2023, 10:04:30 pmOr wait a bit and watch it implode, just like crypto did.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 11:40:52 pm
content: Me:hi againChatGPT:Hello! How may I assist you today?Me:can you recommend a new oscilloscope for a beginner in electronics from the available manufacturers?ChatGPT:Certainly! There are many manufacturers of oscilloscopes, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Here are a few recommendations for entry-level oscilloscopes that are affordable and easy to use:Rigol DS1054Z: This is a popular choice for beginners because of its low price and great features. It has a 50 MHz bandwidth, four channels, and a large 7-inch display. It also has advanced trigger options and the ability to decode serial protocols.Siglent SDS1202X-E: This oscilloscope offers a 200 MHz bandwidth and a 1 GSa/s sample rate, making it ideal for more advanced projects. It has a large 7-inch display and comes with serial decoding software.Keysight DSOX1102G: This is a slightly more expensive option, but it offers a lot of features for the price. It has a 70 MHz bandwidth and a 1 GSa/s sample rate, and it also has advanced triggering capabilities and built-in signal analysis software.Tektronix TBS1052B: This is a good option for beginners who need a more portable oscilloscope. It has a 50 MHz bandwidth and a 2 GSa/s sample rate, and it has a small form factor that makes it easy to transport.These are just a few options to consider, but there are many other good entry-level oscilloscopes available from a variety of manufacturers. When choosing an oscilloscope, it's important to consider your specific needs and budget.Me:Great - how about a digital multimeter?ChatGPT:Sure! A digital multimeter (DMM) is a must-have tool for anyone working with electronics. Here are a few recommendations for entry-level digital multimeters that are affordable and accurate:Fluke 115: This is a popular choice for beginners because of its accuracy and reliability. It measures AC/DC voltage and current, resistance, continuity, and diode testing. It also has a large backlit display and a compact design.Amprobe AM-510: This is a more affordable option that offers similar features to the Fluke 115. It measures AC/DC voltage and current, resistance, continuity, and diode testing. It also has a large backlit display and a built-in non-contact voltage detector.Klein Tools MM400: This is another affordable option that is great for beginners. It measures AC/DC voltage and current, resistance, continuity, and diode testing. It also has a large backlit display and a built-in flashlight.Uni-T UT210E: This is a compact and affordable digital multimeter that is great for working in tight spaces. It measures AC/DC voltage and current, resistance, continuity, and diode testing. It also has a built-in non-contact voltage detector and a large backlit display.These are just a few options to consider, but there are many other good entry-level digital multimeters available from a variety of manufacturers. When choosing a DMM, it's important to consider your specific needs and budget, as well as the accuracy and reliability of the meter.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 11:43:27 pm
content: ChatGPT isn't really the best to ask about product recommendations since its data ends at 2021 (unless they have updated it since that).

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2023, 11:51:40 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on February 15, 2023, 11:43:27 pmYes it ends at 2021 however I am simply evaluating how it works given that fact.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 01:18:57 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 15, 2023, 10:04:30 pm"Grandpa" couldn't use the VCR because of four things-: -(1) No sensible instructions.(2) Unreadable "Black on black" input/output designations on the rear.(3) Smartarse kids who know enough to "half do" some things & bullshit the rest.(4) Many functions with no real practical use.Hey! I just thought--why not ask ChatGPT how to use a VCR?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 01:24:58 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 15, 2023, 10:04:30 pmGrandpas? You mean the generation who designed the VCR?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 01:30:27 am
content: I just asked it some easy facts about stars and which were the five closest stars. Then I had a conversation with it about space travel to the closest star (Proxima Centauri) and how the crew would have to hibernate and other things, of which it did a very good job and also elaborating on my points as well.Uh, wow, not a bad conversation IMHO. What is this thing going to be like in a few more years if it can do that now - it's amazing and a little freaky at the same time.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 01:41:57 am
content: So I just asked ChatGPT "how do I use a VCR?"Answer:-"Using a VCR (Video Cassette Recorder) involves several steps. Here is a basic guide on how to use a VCR:Plug in the VCR: First, you need to plug the VCR into an electrical outlet and connect it to your TV using the RCA cables or the coaxial cable.Turn on the TV: Turn on your TV and set it to the appropriate channel or input. The channel may be labeled as "Line 1" or "Auxiliary," or you may need to switch to a specific input using the TV remote.Insert the VHS tape: Open the VCR door and insert the VHS tape that you want to watch. Make sure that it's inserted with the tape facing down.Press play: Press the "Play" button on the VCR remote to start playing the tape. You can also use the "Fast Forward" and "Rewind" buttons to skip ahead or go back to a specific point in the tape.Stop the tape: To stop the tape, press the "Stop" button on the VCR remote. You can also use the "Eject" button to remove the tape from the VCR.Adjust the tracking: If the picture is distorted or the colors look off, you may need to adjust the tracking. This can be done using the "Tracking" or "Horizontal Hold" button on the VCR remote.Set the timer: If you want to record a TV show, you can use the VCR's built-in timer. Consult the user manual for your specific VCR model to learn how to set the timer.Note: Keep in mind that VCRs are becoming increasingly rare and may not be compatible with newer TVs or media formats. If you encounter any issues or difficulties, consult the user manual for your VCR or seek assistance from a professional."Nice "vanilla" description!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 01:47:09 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 16, 2023, 01:41:57 amA nice way of saying what we advise here - "If you encounter any issues or difficulties, RTFM!"

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 02:08:53 am
content: Ask it which toslink cables provide the best audio quality.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 02:25:18 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 16, 2023, 02:08:53 amOK here's your answer -Ed: which toslink cables provide the best audio quality.ChatGPT: In terms of audio quality, all TOSLINK (also known as optical) cables should theoretically provide the same level of performance, as long as they meet the required technical specifications. This is because TOSLINK is a digital audio format, which means that the cable simply carries a stream of binary data from one device to another, rather than an analog signal that can be affected by interference or degradation.However, it is important to note that the build quality of the cable can have an impact on its durability and reliability. A poorly constructed or low-quality cable may be more prone to signal loss, dropouts, or other issues that can affect the audio performance. Additionally, longer cables may have a higher risk of signal loss, so it may be worth investing in a high-quality TOSLINK cable if you need to transmit audio over a long distance.In general, it's recommended to choose a TOSLINK cable from a reputable brand and to look for cables that meet the required technical specifications, such as the appropriate optical interface, fiber-optic cable construction, and recommended cable length for your specific use case.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 06:18:59 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 15, 2023, 10:04:30 pmYeah, no.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 10:15:56 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 16, 2023, 02:25:18 amOk, what about this.Hey ChatGPT? What is the best way to pass a string between functions in C?<ducks for cover>..

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 11:38:35 am
content: Question:Sam bangs his head against a brick wall because it feels good when he stops. Reply in the style of someone who is high on glue fumes.ChatGPTQuoteQuestion:Write a poem about Dave from the EEVBLOG who creates YouTube videos about things he finds in the dumpsterChatGPTQuotehehe, ChatGPT is so much fun.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 12:06:07 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 16, 2023, 10:15:56 am--------->https://chat.openai.com/auth/login

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 09:43:55 pm
content: It seems a bit worrying, about how much information hasleaked-out, of the forum, into the internet and ChatGPT. It doesn't seem to have got all the details 100% right. But on the other hand, it does seem to know about a wide range of individual users, and at a quick glance, does seem to have got some details, at least a bit right or better.Quote

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 10:01:05 pm
content: Wait a minute, in the section with my name it ended with -QuoteEccentric? WTFYea, but it is really amazing that it can pull all those names out of the databank it was trained on, considering the vast amount of human knowledge it was given. Must be a nice size chunk of data. Wonder how large it is? I mean, does it know every part number of every vacuum cleaner and electric shaver, every spice used in every recipe available to anyone, and all the minutia of these types of things. Let me check on some things ...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2023, 11:49:12 pm
content: OK this made me laugh out loud, and I just loved it!Me: do you know the lyrics to Pink Floyd "Have a Cigar"?ChatGPT: Yes, I can provide you with the lyrics to Pink Floyd's "Have a Cigar":Come in here, dear boy, have a cigarYou're gonna go far, fly highYou're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you tryThey're gonna love youWell, I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerelyOh, by the way, which one's Pink?And did we tell you the name of the game, boyWe call it Riding the Gravy TrainWe're just knocked outWe heard about the sell outYou gotta get an album outYou owe it to the peopleWe're so happy we can hardly countEverybody else is just greenHave you seen the chart? It's a hell of a startIt could be made into a monsterIf we all pull together as a teamAnd did we tell you the name of the game, boyWe call it Riding the Gravy TrainHave a good one!Me: Yes. Now, can you modify the lyrics and give me a new version?ChatGPT: Sure! Do you have any particular theme or subject matter in mind for the modified lyrics?Me: instead of a cigar maybe a hot dog?ChatGPT: Alright, here's a modified version of the lyrics to Pink Floyd's "Have a Cigar" with a hot dog theme:Come on over here, friend, have a hot dogIt's gonna be the talk, of the townYou'll never go hungry, you'll be living like a kingEveryone's gonna love youWell, I've always had a fondness, for a tasty frankfurterOh, by the way, do you like mustard?And did we tell you the name of the game, friend?We call it grilling the perfect dogWe're just amazed, we heard about your cookoutYou gotta share the recipe, and show us howYou owe it to the peopleWe're so hungry we can hardly waitEverybody else is just enviousHave you seen the toppings bar? It's a work of artIt could be made into a masterpieceIf we all share our secrets as a teamAnd did we tell you the name of the game, friend?We call it grilling the perfect dogI hope you enjoy this modified version of the lyrics!

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2023, 09:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 16, 2023, 11:49:12 pmYep, getting it to make stuff up like poems or lyrics about stupid stuff is hilarious.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2023, 09:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 16, 2023, 10:01:05 pmThink of it like a dictionary of all words it has seen and arrays of n'th deep probabilities for each of them about which words come after other word, given each word that came before them. Out of that comes sentences that make sense given they match the arrangements of words it has seen probabilistically.There is also some training done on the AI were it's output gets ranked by humans as to how much it makes sense. So it was trained to not produce sentences that are nonsense.There was also probably some automatic training based on it's output having to comply with the rules of the language it's speaking.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2023, 11:03:24 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on February 18, 2023, 09:24:38 pmThere once was a lady from China...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2023, 11:13:41 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on February 18, 2023, 11:03:24 pmWho sent a balloon up to spy on ya ...

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2023, 11:57:53 pm
content: And.... sure, keep feeding this huge pile of shit!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 12:02:38 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 16, 2023, 11:49:12 pmIt doesn't understand rhyming---blank verse is "sorta" Ok for poems, but it's crap for song lyrics.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 12:10:15 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on February 16, 2023, 10:01:05 pmIt didn't have a clue what a "Carpenter relay " was, & rabbited on about thermal relays, just like a human who was caught out in the same way.After I told it what they really were, it "Googled" & found some more detailed information, but it was still pretty much just a restated version of what I told it.Does it remember this stuff, or will it go through the same process with someone else?

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 04:41:01 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on February 19, 2023, 12:02:38 amNo worse than Polly's.(if you know, you know)Having said that, will all Floyd lyrics, if it doesn't make sense, you're not high enough.Pass.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 11:26:15 am
content: I thought I was on to a winner when I asked it to write some ARM BiQuad filters for me in C.Took quite a while. I mean getting the initial answer out of it was straight forward.It was when I then returned with the editor and compiler that there was a LOT of going back and forth and I think I exhausted it's potential eventually, without getting to a single working filter.It makes a lot of mistakes. It seems to be pulling examples from different places and when provoked will try and merge them together. Sometimes they fit, sometimes they don't. It kept mixing the different BiQuad structs for coefficients in every other example. The other thing is does which might be a tuning parameter for them, is what it decides to leave out of the examples and reiterations. Like it would completely redo a section of code, which changed the struct members, but it didn't give me the new struct def.In the end, it doesn't work. It runs, but produces some dodgy output which the DAC ignores.It took me an hour to get the code to compile and run.I haven't quite worked out why yet. I figure it's going to be a silly little school boy error somewhere, that it made and I have since missed.Anyway. I was just being lazy and seeing what it could do. A better approach would be to ask it more specific questions with reference to existing function calls in other examples. Not ask it to keep writing the 200 whole filter code file each time. Like, if I get any example biquad cascade filter working, I can go back and give it that context and ask it the questions I need to know about the coefficient calcualtions. Which I can check if I need.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 12:47:55 pm
content: The experience you describe is similar to using Google to find and reuse C programming examples on the web. If something wasn't explicitly meant as "library" or "component", reusing it will cause troubles. Those who post code on the web often solved a specific problem. Unless you are lucky to find exactly what you need, there will be confusion.Don't know whether ChatGPT learns from conversations. Maybe you contributed to its education in a remote corner..Regards, Dieter

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2023, 03:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 19, 2023, 11:26:15 amAs the saying goes, the results can be good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good.Bing search seems a mixed expert system which seems to use the model to find citations and then use those as context to construct the answer. In theory a mixed expert system could be far better for code construction too, just use the LLM as help to search for code snippets and then copy/paste with formatting and variable naming cleaned up. That represents a huge legal problem though ... so hallucination it is. Even if they iterate it through a compiler to make sure it compiles, it's going to functionally be a mess when it starts interpolating.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 11:57:49 am
content: I have an antenna with 24Ohm + 30J impedance, at 2.45ghz, I'm trying to match it to 50Ohm, can you provide me with E24 values passives in a pi network?QuoteCan you provide a lower inductance matching network, because my inductor has a low resonant frequency?QuoteI haven't verified the values TBH, but ballpark they look OK.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 12:06:41 pm
content: Yeah, people seem to get hung up on the fact that sometimes it makes mistakes.But that isn't really the point.The point is that it can do this stuff at all, and is often correct. Or correct enough to be very useful and get you most of they way there.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 01:55:09 pm
content: So I went ahead, and asked my regular interview questions for an EE job. Often times it was giving a generic answer, which is not surprising. I changed the question to ask for specifics. It's absolutely hopeless at drawing schematics at the moment. Like I gave it a question with logic gates, and the answer was a jumbled mess. And another cicrcuit was supposed to have an opamp, and it had the + and - symbols on it I think as the inverting and non inverting inputs, but otherwise looked like this:QuoteSo it's not it's strong suit. It completely messed up some calculations, like including the current into a duty cycle calculation.For some answer, it was giving contradicting information.It answered 6 questions out of 11 correctly. I often times asked follow-up questions to the wrong ones, and it could correct itself, which is interesting. I would do this on an interview anyway. It's certainly interesting, though it's not going to replace engineers anytime soon. I really think it could be very useful tool in my toolbox already.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 02:19:06 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on February 14, 2023, 08:00:50 pmWent through the same as this guy 4-5 years ago when Musk talked first about the dangers of AI. Was hoping the world would immediately start some meaningful discussion about it, but the main stuff that came up during this period was this gender shit.(And as I said I am still not sure wheter it is real, or caused by some algorythm, and Musks adventure in Twitter makes me think that I my suspicion might was right.)Still no meaningful political initiatives to regulate the whole stuff but AI was just coming through as a marketing bullshit with a positive hint.Well now I would like to see some politicians to watch these videos as well,(especially those with a minimum level of technical understanding) because if this thing will not be taken care of ,similarily to nuclear proliferation, it will not end up well. We can call ourselves pretty happy if we get away "social" media, and its unforeseen consequences no need for an even bigger bomb especially not in the middle of this second cold war with warm tones. (We can consider ourselves really happy to get out of the first one with no major harm)Yes forbidding is not the ultimate longterm solution, but it gives some time to react which we desperately need. At least these demos now can show that it is not scify. Also this thing is not so simple as a nuclear bomb, so not easily put together in a shed.(I am actualy also pretty amazed that North Korea took so much to have a nuke, it is really a good job from the nuclear powers of the world. But maybe they already had som highly capable ICBMs 30 years ago, but they where not enough pointy so they started over from scratch. )And I also agree, that just because it is not perfect yet, and can not outsmart humans now(some of the humans),there is no reason to lay back.As for adapting to it: This thing will be able to change faster than anyone wanting to adapt. And as said before: The whole society was not even able to adapt to much slower things. In the last 20 years although the technologies present we couldn't even stop the climate change. All it woul needed to turn down the heating with 5 degrees celsius, and do some minor lifestyle change but it was also too big of a task. Instead , to cite a classical:"blablabla".

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 02:27:53 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 20, 2023, 01:55:09 pmUntil trained properly in engineering. Which is either possible, or not. But if yes, than you will be sitting here in 2 years and say: "But we didn't know"Is it THAT useful to risk your future for it?But even in its current form it will cause a huge destruction in society.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 03:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 20, 2023, 11:57:49 amSure, but:a) You have to know the exact question to askb) You have to know how to check the values given in the answer

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 03:18:25 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 20, 2023, 03:03:54 pmOh, for sure. That's why I'm saying that it is a tool that we need to learn using. And it will be a while before it's straight up used to replace engineers.On the other hand, imagine a scenario, where instead of doing X work in a day, you can do 1.2X because GPT will provide you with meeting notes, calculations, bottled answers for emails and other tasks that are taking up your day. And suddenly a company with 5 engineers doesn't need to hire a 6th one to not be overloaded. Then did someone loose their job and were they replaced by the AI?

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 04:33:00 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 20, 2023, 03:03:54 pmWell you can just ask it to design a circuit. If some design tools can run some simulation, I don't know why it couldn't be incorporated into this. Errors could be corrected by training.Obviously Im not sure wheter it could be made into this one, but we might should not wait and watch to find it out. The language modell in this form seems to me way more complicated than circuit design.If you build the whole stuff to not to be a language, but a circuit design modell, it would be much easier though.Quote from: tszaboo on February 20, 2023, 03:18:25 pmYes, the 6th guy will not get a job, or loose it if you want.And it is not just engineering. In the military you will have to hand over highest level control, because otherwise human decision makers will be too slow, and not have the chance against machines.So generally is it a good strategy, just to wait and sit and hope that it won't be so bad? Or we might should think about it first?Just because dogma number one tells us that: New technology is always good, and it MUST come, and we HAVE to enjoy it? Because other than these dogmas I still don't see any reasoning.This is not a point where we either chose this path or die. We only go on this path because we usually did it in the past.I only found this translation, but not sure whether it fits:The pitcher goes so long to the well, until it breaks. You know, the phrase with "Addig jár..."

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 04:33:56 pm
content: Some smell money:OpenAI is faulted by US media for using articles to train ChatGPT (https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/openai-is-faulted-by-us-media-for-using-articles-to-train-chatgpt)

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 04:53:26 pm
content: And they are quiet right. Do you follow the story with Safe Habour and now the third one called Tadpf or something like that? This should be included as well as this is a kind of mass data gathering and processing it for undefined purposes so clear GDPR case as well.Thinking about some fun method to wake up some politicians with this tool

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 05:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 20, 2023, 03:03:54 pmBing at least gives links now to the formulas it uses.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2023, 09:49:36 pm
content: How long until the first case of "well ChatGPT made me do it"

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 12:24:15 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 20, 2023, 11:57:49 amAsk it to do it again, allowing for stray capacitance.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 09:08:40 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 20, 2023, 01:55:09 pmI am gravitating that way too. A tool.I think it will fit into a certain place in an engineers tool kit. Sometimes you have a simple question that is bugging you. It's not substancial enough and you haven't really researched it or tried hard enough to make a forum post. You can already list a few things people are going to say off the bat. Often I would try, say a specific discord group. Just someone to bounce ideas off. I mean like thinking out loud, where forums are too slow. The async nature means a back and forward like that can take a week to reach resolution.The forms and/or discord routes will lead to make incorrect suggestions, irrelevant suggestions and even some dead wrong ones. Just like chat GPT. Just like chat GPT however, you can go back and forth with it. "Yes that would help, except in my case...", and that's what chat gpt does quite well. It's basically googling for you.So rather than pester and bug the hell out of real people, even repeating the same question, I now have a friend with no feelings to hurt I can pester all I want.I find you can tell, just like in an interview when you have pushed ChatGPT too far. The mistake rate rises rapidly. It get's confused easily as well. In my conv with it about low shelf filters, I asked it once to also show a peak filter of the same form. This was a mistake. Keep conversations with it on as straight and narrow a path as you can. It learns during the conversation, but I believe only within it. So asking multiple related questions and then dropping a complete curve ball in the middle may make it more and more confused.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 09:25:03 am
content: In terms of society and the impacts.It won't be good. The worry is not what ChatGPT is doing per say it's what it's not doing that is worrying. Should another AI be less carefully controlled and, say, released in the wild with some social media accounts. Full internet access, full open learning. I fear it won't be just one of them, but in a number of years thousands and thousands of them.Introducing a learning bot AI into that feedback loop echo chamber of toxicity ... it could get spicy.The pracitcal aspects will not come from public AI, but from private ones. Training and releasing an internal departmental AI into large corporations would be a massively useful tool.Ow! AI! Who's that person in marketing that does all the documentation templates and logos?"John Brown, here is his details or most people jsut download his media pack from athena server //anthena/marketing/packs/....."All that has to happen is someone tells it that's how they fixed the problem, it can be corrected when John leaves. It will basically write and manage you confluence wikis for you.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2023, 08:28:07 pm
content: We can cross our fingers and hope it puts all those "life coaches" out of a job.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2023, 03:25:32 pm
content: AI's Latest Problem? Screwing Up Orders at McDonalds:https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/23/03/05/1915245/ais-latest-problem-screwing-up-orders-at-mcdonalds

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2023, 08:45:24 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 06, 2023, 03:25:32 pmBe aware that Mcdonalds is actively spamming TikTok with bogus 'news' stories.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 07, 2023, 09:19:45 am
content: Saw an impressive plugin for GhatGPT in Excel on Twitter, but can't find the video again.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2023, 08:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on February 21, 2023, 09:25:03 amClearly the "revolution" of "AI", if there is one, is absolutely NOT technological. There is zero breakthrough in the underlying technology. It's just a ton of storage, large amounts of processing power, and pretty basic maths behind it. The key to make it all work is the abundance of computing resources (and energy, btw), and the large-scale data collection (which is often akin to stealing), nothing else.The whole revolution is going to be social and political. It's a massive political tool, with massive social engineering capabilities.The discussion is thus not technical. Technically, there is almost nothing interesting in it. It's mainly the sign of "computing abundance".

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:39:37 am
content: A short introduction to mechanics of ChatGPT:Whar is ChatGPT doing and why does it work.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:09:32 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 07, 2023, 08:35:17 pmIt's aleady here. My 11yo in high school now just said that one kid has already been busted using AI for written assignments, and the school now has a policy against it.I predict that within 20 years those youngsters with actual legit "human" skills in writing will find very powerful niches as the general population is so used to relatively mediocre AI results.And possibly the AI content will get more "mediocre" the more it feeds on the mediocre content being produced and published that it learns from thinking that it's quality content.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 03:10:31 am
content: Will AI results reach a peak inflection point where the quality of the result starts to decrease because there is now more AI content to base the models on than there is good human content?I.E the photocopy of a photocopy problem.https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1633292695677595649

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 07:31:18 am
content: Not all AI is big data cargo culting, there's fancier approaches ... they just don't work all that well for now.Cargo culting is a lot safer too of course, actual AGI makes humans superfluous.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 09:02:57 am
content: Quote from: Marco on March 08, 2023, 07:31:18 amHumans can kill and reproduce, this will always be in demand.Look at what happens to all the blue collar workers made "superfluous" by machines.(I mean, those who aren't still working manual labor, building and operating all the machinery).When machines are able to kill and reproduce without humans in the decision chain, then there will be a problem.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 11:39:02 am
content: That inflection point might be where it becomes human.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:20:12 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2023, 03:09:32 amYep. We have seen what happens to humans in the echo chamber of social media. God help us when the AIs get loose in there and start feeding-back through each other at 10,000 messages a second. Never thought fake news could spread faster? Now it can.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 12:23:36 pm
content: My preferred use case for similar AI is to let them loose in a private company. Let it inhale all the documentation, business processes, people directories etc.Then make it appear as an individual assistant to each employee on Teams or what not, where it learns with that employee how to best help them find stuff or people.You could even get it to start filling in support tickets and HR forms for you!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:04:02 pm
content: Tell you what I want ChatGPT or a clone to do - replace the *** damn telephone menus companies have implemented. Just the other day I had to get in touch with a property management company about the vacant house next to me. The old shed had been picked up by a big windstorm and dumped upside down on the neighbor's fence. Anyway, the stupid telephone menu really didn't have a menu selection for what I wanted - it was all for tenants, renters/owners, or people who knew the extension of the person they wished to speak with. Many times they don't put a menu item that fits what people want to do, this isn't the first time I have run into that.But my point is, give the chatbot a voice recognition front end, and just tell the damn thing what it is that you want in plain language right off the bat. I'm thinking it would go like this -"Hello. How may I assist you today?""Hi. I am not a tenant but a neighbor of a house you manage at ________. A windstorm has blown a shed over in the backyard and it landed upside-down on a fence. Please send a maintenance crew out to disassemble it so that it will not be a hazard to the houses around it in the next windstorm.""Thank you for your report, I understand your concern. Since you are not a tenant or owner I can forward it to Mr. _____ who can handle it. Your ticket number is 12384. If you need to call back tell me what your ticket number is and I will be happy to assist you!"Thanks!"Simple as that - no menu just get to the point in plain language and let the thing do what needs to be done with the knowledge it has of the company and people employed there.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:48:42 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on March 08, 2023, 12:20:12 pmDidn't that happen already? Why do you think Fox news needed 40000 more hours of video to digest. No actual person is employed to watch that much video.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 01:53:12 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 08, 2023, 01:04:02 pmOr just have a person answer the phone. Failing that have the first option "press 1 to speak to someone". Option 2 "Press # to hear the option again".

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2023, 02:02:04 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 08, 2023, 01:53:12 pmRight - just pay a minimum wage person to answer the phone. I tried all the menu options to get through even though they didn't fit what I wanted. I finally got through to someone but they sounded like they had an accent. I asked them if they were in the United States they answered no. This is a local property management company and they still want to outsource a simple job like answering the telephone! I guess it's come down to that - saving every single penny you can rather than have a local person simply answer the phone. I'd much rather have the chatbot than explain what I want through a language barrier.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2023, 12:30:54 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 08, 2023, 01:48:42 pm40,000 hours of video is a ridiculous amount.On the local Fox clone's MSN page, a commenter was raving about it all showing some supposed "agents" stirring up the mob at the Jan 6 incident.That amounts to just over four & a halfyearsof video.Maybe all the people at the riot were just making videos!How would AI help with that?It seems to me that "garbage in, garbage out" is still a thing.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 02:26:40 am
content: Quote from: magic on March 08, 2023, 09:02:57 amEither way, it's not AI or machines that may make humans "superfluous". It's us humans. We'll put ourselves in that situation and will have no one else to blame.And, it's not just humans either that it can make "superfluous", but with the same idea and eventually, any form of what we call life.Apart from philosophical/metaphysical/religious questions, the missing part here will be resilience. "Life" as we define it has proven to be extraordinarily resilient. I don't think any kind of machine will ever be able to be that resilient. We are again trying to mimick things that have taken billions of years to get to the point they are. That's delirious.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 09:16:08 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 10, 2023, 02:26:40 amConsciousness on the other hand is pretty transient.I think they can figure out self repair and recycling easier than we can figure out a way to do snapshot backups of biological consciousness.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 12:07:37 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 10, 2023, 02:26:40 amYea like flying. Silly us. We tried to mimick things that can fly (birds), which took billions of years to get to the point they are and look where we ended up. Oh wait ...

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 08:53:04 pm
content: I don't think they will replace humans completely any time soon - silicon wafers don't grow on trees, the system still requires lots of different functions like truck drivers, each of which will get upset if they are displaced without reason. Superior AI will be able to bend that reason though, also nothing new there either apart from the margin by which humans can be overwhelmed intellectually (I say, as if that is a surprise). The human body still has a liver, and spleen. Evolution doesn't strictly work by 'survival of the fittest' (a human observation) when things like crocodiles live alongside the species that were supposed to displace them. The parts are useful, and humans are at least of utility to supply power - literally; that lineman for the county might be the most resilient organ for the job. All that is really needed to complete the plot line of The Matrix is for humans to scorch the sky (which is also coming).

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 06:15:05 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 10, 2023, 12:07:37 pmWe can't fly, though, but we can ride machines that do.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 08:41:59 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 10, 2023, 12:07:37 pmTwo important differences I see:Biological life uses basic resources available everywhere on earth - water, air, soil, solar energy. Technology as it exists today relies on rare resources and highly purified materials, which are harder to obtain, easier to disrupt, require more logistics and global cooperation.Life is fully decentralized. Wherever there is a few organisms and whatever stuff they need to live (not a lot, see above) you can rest assured there will be more of them very soon. Technology is mass manufactured in highly centralized and specialized factories as forced by economic and logistic necessities: it takes a lot of ultra specialized advanced technology to manufacture any other advanced technology and this takes resources and physical space.Nothing even remotely on the horizon suggests that technology will reach the capability and survivability of human life anytime soon. There is no such thing as AI which 3D prints itself, but any human group can make more humans readily. With some luck and selection they may even become better than their ancestors.If any technology threatens human life in foreseeable future, it's bioengineering. These guys are messing with stuff where all the difficult problems of survival, replication, spread and evolution are already solved. All it would take to trigger a global scale disaster is to bolt some destructive capabilities on top of that, and there is a lot of destructive potential in various forms of life already. Further advances in biology and genetic engineering are likely to occur because it's a relatively young field of science whose main task is simply figuring out how to make use of things which already exist and have existed for millions of years.AI is a worry for terminal Dunning-Kruger cases like Yudkowski who think that they are way smarter than everybody else and overestimate the importance of smartness in the first place. Those guys are genetic dead ends anyway, not sure why they even care if they die by machines or by expiry like everyone else.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 12:00:35 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 11, 2023, 06:15:05 amYep with our machines we designed we can use them to fly farther and faster than birds, all the way to the Moon and back, even in places without air that birds require to fly. Thank you for your keen observation as always.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 04:41:06 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 11, 2023, 12:00:35 pmWe can't, unlike a bird, fly up on a whim, sit on a tree limb & poop on those passing below.What is currently called AI is similarly limited by the formalities of its existence.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 05:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 11, 2023, 04:41:06 pmI've taken a flight at an hour's notice, achieved my preference of not ending up in a tree, and pooped on the plane. I know where that poop ends up, so I don't think we are far behind.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 06:05:54 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 11, 2023, 04:41:06 pmYou said "Unlike a bird ..." I didn't know a Kiwi, or ostrich, or any other of the 60 species of flightless birds could fly up to a tree limb. They are like people in this respect - they can't naturally fly.But suppose they wanted to fly - how would they go about solving that problem?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2023, 11:58:42 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 11, 2023, 06:05:54 pmThey could always hitch a ride on a human's aircraft---otherwise, it is wait around for millions of years to see if evolution will restore the power of flight to them.Strangely, weird stuff like that can happen, which is why humans aren't colour blind like other mammals.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:01:08 pm
content: When you think that you can trust the AI doing the right thing: How Medicare Advantage Plans Use Algorithms To Cut Off Care For Seniors In Need (https://science.slashdot.org/story/23/03/13/2332231/how-medicare-advantage-plans-use-algorithms-to-cut-off-care-for-seniors-in-need).Anyway, who needs AI ethics? Microsoft just laid off one of its responsible AI teams (https://www.platformer.news/p/microsoft-just-laid-off-one-of-its).

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 01:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 14, 2023, 01:01:08 pmExpert systems, which are a non-AI approach to gathering the proven wisdom of humans, and deploying it reliably, have done a terrific job of things like medical diagnosis since the 1980s. I watched them do so well in well paid professional problem diagnosis, from things like telecoms to patient care, that the backlash from people who's jobs were in danger got them marginalised. That backlash was so strong that even simple but effective measures, like check lists, in patient care took years to become normal practice.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 04:20:56 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 14, 2023, 01:01:08 pmSome near minimum wage human needing to meet his quota would do any better?Capitalism + triage makes for a messy business.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 04:50:36 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 14, 2023, 01:01:08 pmThey only want irresponsible teams...

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 04:55:34 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 14, 2023, 04:50:36 pmBeing responsible doesn't mean them being responsible for anything good. That article seems to indicate they produced little of value.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 10:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 14, 2023, 01:01:08 pmThe whole point of promoting AI on a large scale as it is now is precisely to circumvent any ethics, morals and liability.And not just ethics, but laws as well.With "AI", many laws are bound to change to completely flip liability on its head. Obviously IP laws are also going to be changed in a major way, as "AI" is currently pretty much based on stealing IP on a very large scale without people even knowing it or having any say in it.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2023, 11:05:06 pm
content: A human can read many books and as a consequence learn something by training the neural network in his brain. If he then uses this knowledge to i.e. write a book, nobody would rais IP issues withe the authors of the books that were read, unless whole sentences would have been copied, which is not the case in this example.Or, consider a painter that is inspired by other contemporary painters. This happend for any major style, from expressionism to cubism, from renaissance to abstract painting. Just go to the Louvre and see how painters inspired themselves.With AI, the learning works identically by training a neural network. The original data is not stored in the database. If you would search the GPT model, no readable content would be found.The only valid objection would be: has OpenAI the right or authorisation to read the books? Are the books open source or was the book purchased?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 12:48:24 am
content: Quote from: Marco on March 14, 2023, 04:20:56 pmFor an example of a disastrous use of Algorithms Google "Robodebt".This was set up because the responsible politicians & much of the appropriate Department's management were convinced that there was a lot of cheating by recipients of Unemployment Relief, so they set out to "claw payments back".In the real world, the problem was minimal, but the system was set up, anyway, & it proceeded to send bills for outlandish amounts which the recipients were alleged to owe to the Dept.These turned out to, in most cases be totally incorrect, & to add insult to injury, there was no real way to dispute the bills.Eventually, it was discontinued, as it had become a scandal, & is now the subject of a Royal Commission, with the principals ducking & weaving to try to avoid responsibility.Hardly the fault of the Algorithms, as they just did what they were set up to do by stupid or malicious (sometimes both) actors.Some people in the Dept tried to point out it would "all end in tears", but they were steamrollered by its enthusiastic supporters.

author: eti
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:47:47 am
content: As sceptical as I am about those who become a bit too enamoured with “AI”, I’ll admit it was VERY helpful when I asked it various questions about LISP programming just now!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 09:31:29 am
content: https://betterprogramming.pub/exploring-the-intersection-of-ai-and-physics-the-role-of-chatgpt-in-code-generation-dacb6fd6f96b

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 12:54:36 pm
content: Quote from: eti on March 15, 2023, 08:47:47 amDid it say "Dont!"?()

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 01:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 14, 2023, 11:05:06 pmExcept, that none of those human painters could produce paintings on a thousands/second scale, aviable globally.And although everybody learns from everybody, intellectual property rights are there for a reason.So if you think AI should be treated like a human, just because some aspects are the same, than with this logic you could also treat a table as a dog.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 02:19:05 pm
content: The new GPT-4 can interpret images: OpenAI Announces Chat GPT-4, an AI That Can Understand Photos (https://petapixel.com/2023/03/14/chat-gpt-4-will-let-you-turn-text-into-video-and-is-coming-next-week/)

author: Axk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 02:27:43 pm
content: Can someone with Plus try this query and see if GPT-4 gives the correct answer?The Skype Bing bot gives the correct answer with a link to an article, the free version of Chat GPT (GPT-3.5) is producing plausible nonsense like it always did.So I wonder if it's GPT-4 or the Bing bot is using web searches in some way:Query: "Give an example of a real story existing in literature where a young man is seeking help from a detective to solve a mystery with his uncle and father dying under strange circumstances and where it turns out Ku Klux Klan was involved"Correct answer: "The Five Orange Pips by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle"

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 03:57:59 pm
content: Bing AIis knownto already use GPT-4 BTW.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 05:53:44 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 15, 2023, 01:54:55 pm"Except, that none of those human painters could produce paintings on a thousands/second scale, aviable globally." --> that has exactly nothing to do with IP matters"And although everybody learns from everybody, intellectual property rights are there for a reason." --> IP is mainly obsolete and the IP of a book expires 75 years after the death of the author (if I recall correctly), so many books used by GPT have no IP - you can seatch Project Gutenberg to get an idea of how many books there are!"So if you think AI should be treated like a human, just because some aspects are the same, than with this logic you could also treat a table as a dog." --> sorry, but I don't understand your example (table for dog). A neural network does EXACTLY try to replicate the way a biological brain works. It solves problems in the same way. And, incredibly, a side-effect of GPT is that it can provide insight on how the brain really works. So, yes, in my opinion it makes sense to treat content created by AI in a similar way as if it was created by a human.This link has already been posted on this thread:https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/I really recommend everyone to read it. It is written by the creator of Wolfram Alpha and goes into length explaining how GPT works, why it works so good and what we can expect.I would say that 2023 is the year in which mankind managed to replicate a neural network in the size remotely comparable with the one of the human brain (smaller, but in the same league).According to Stephen Wolfram, the main current limitation of GPT and alikes is the fact that the neural network is trained and operated sequentially, while the biological brain works in parallel.Also, the reason we get GPT in 2023 and not like 10 years earlier is because of the sheer computing power required, which was not available sooner. And, of course, the cost resulting from this requirement.Coming back to IP:When you buy a book (analog or digital), you "own" the book and can read it as often as you want. You can learn from it. The knowledge you gain is yours and is not linked to any contract to the IP owner of the book. Consider i.e. a physics, electronics or math book. You buy it to learn from it. The only think you are not allowed to do is to replicate the book or parts of it. You might do some quotes, but they need to reference the book.If AI "reads" the book it does learn from it, too. It does NOT store its contents, though. It will, instead, train the underlying neural networks. What gets stored are parameters. These are abstract and you wouldn't be able to reconstruct the original book from them. No copyright violation in sight.The only debate is: could an author (of a book, website or image) refuse to allow his IP to be processed by AI?Where does AI start? What about printed text to audio readers? Could those be used?What if you train the AI by reading the book to it? Would that be acceptable?Can AI watch all free TV channels and learn from the broadcasted contents? They are free to air, so why not put a "bot" to watch the contents and learn from it?All of this is far more complex and my bet is that it is virtually impossible to decide what to do.Imagine portable super computers, the size of a mobile phone: the student takes it with him to his Uni lectures to train "his" pet AI...I have to stop writing here, because I am starting to get into SCI-FI mode.But to finish it off: look at the technological complexity involved until humaity got GPT-4.0. And still, it is only a fraction of what a human being can do. Consider that a human is a self-replicating machine! Now tell me that life on earth started by casual proteins mingling in oceans and through evolution led to humans. This in just a few hundred or thousand million years? Hard to believe.Regards,Vitor

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 06:18:01 pm
content: The crazy starts around 10 minute mark

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 06:47:58 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 15, 2023, 05:53:44 pmI think that mischaracterises the article.I think the core problem they point out is this :QuoteLets say we work through a Gardner Puzzle, we form and reject hypothesis using internal dialogue and/or external scratchpad and only then formulate the solution. The language model has to solve it inside it's hidden layers in one go AND repeat all that work a couple dozen times (the output history of characters doesn't help much, it can't really work iteratively through that). Well it can try any way, it's going to fail on most puzzles not in the training set.There'ssome interesting researchwhich tries to replicate hypothesis based problem solving, but nothing as successful as just making the streaming predictors larger. It's amazing what GPT can accomplish with the level of redundant processing it must do.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:00:49 pm
content: You are correct - I forgot about the loops. But lack of parallel processing is what slows down current AI models.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 15, 2023, 08:00:49 pmYou mean a well organised team can finish a job faster than a lone worker? Who knew?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2023, 08:47:39 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on March 15, 2023, 03:57:59 pmOf course, that's why MS invested billions of USD in it, as I mentioned earlier.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 02:06:43 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 15, 2023, 05:53:44 pmA dining table and a dog have one thing in common. That does not mean, you ought to treat them as equal.You are finding similarities withing the workings of an AI system with humans and conclude, that because there are these similarities we should treat them as similar, and comlpetely exclude the whole lpethora of issues around.I don't want to be off but this is the way how communism was created. They ignored a lot of fine levels of realities which still were important, but they somehow forgot to calculate with it.Quote from: BicuricoHere you listed the issues a bit. AI is not a human and before we would elaborate its possible effect on societies, and have at least theoretical legal and ethical and financial rules for its working , we just unleash it to wait and see as if we had nothing to loose.Training AI for free: This is also an issue which would have to be discussed first, before getting to this point.But most of the people who think about it agree, that a general AI which is smarter than humans will not be able to controlled by humans.But with the training that is what is happening, that scientist are working towards this goal.And even the not so smart AI as discussed here, can do a lot of trouble. Why should we let this advancement going on without any barriers, and ethical, democratical questions asessed first?Just to help these poor little companies? Why? Because they promise? Well I can also promise you a lot of things if you pay me a lot of money.Why cant't we access to the really old informations, as to how exactly build a nuclear bomb? Or a bio weapon? Why is it tightly controlled? It is just a tool, isn't it, so it's not bad.....

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 04:10:20 pm
content: AI, no matter how powerfull, will not by itself, constitue a threat to human kind. It is the company that owns the AI that might be a threat.And such kind of threats already exist, here are some examples:1) Google: when you do a search, the results showing are filtered by parameters setup by Google for their own benefit. If Google wants, content is hidden from users while other content is forced upon users. Try to do a Google search for a product review. The first page will be hits trying to sell you the product, instead of links to actual reviews. That is obviously for ad profit, as it would be difficult to get it that wrong.2) Facebook: the company controls the whole network of people using it and even those not using it! Indiviual profiles are made and exploited. There is a movie that visualizes the control of Facebook.3) Any modern smartphone will track your geolocation. Google at least sends you a monthly report where you can see (like themselves) where you have been on any moment....In a modern society, we are full monitored (digital money, toll boxes, smartphones, digital receipts, etc.). If you as an idividual start to worry goverment members, they can easily eliminate your credibility based on the huge data that exists.So, while I think that AI, GPT, etc., on their own are just a tool that is very helpful, it can be used to further control human kind.You can check it for yourself: ChatGPT is biased (though responses change over time). While it refuses to produce text for some political ideologies, it happily replies on other political ideologies. That is on purpose.But I do see the benefit of quickly learning something or getting help when programming, etc.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 04:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: bob808 on March 15, 2023, 06:18:01 pmInteresting!!But anyway this was anticipated years before. Everybody who thought about it knew that sooner or later these things will start to happen. And still basically we did not do anything to prepare for it in the last years.(But having instead interesting debates about what is a woman and what is man, and how should we call them.)So the basic approach was: But just experiment with it, its so interesting, until we can't see destruction, we can not be sure that it will be so bad.I actually started to wonder what will come first. The mass panic when people start to realize what this is, or the job and income losses on a mass scale affecting the not so top level intellectual jobs, and the consequences of that.I also watched this:To watch a smart guys talking about positive solutions.Well this is some tech optimistic Stanford professor and still.His idea: Well we have to teach children to think creatively, to work with the AI.And than? When the AI will become more creative what happens than?Next step: Try to teach the childrens properly to pray to the AI to not to be eradicated, and to get some extra scores and food...

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 04:46:56 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 16, 2023, 04:10:20 pmHow do you know that? Why it can not be a threat by itself?But even only if the company would be a threat, do we have anything now to mitigate it?And just because we have already some problems we shuld willingly create more?Quote from: Bicurico on March 16, 2023, 04:10:20 pmIn a modern society...: Well go and live in China for a while to check what happens if these things get into the wrong hands. The full monitoring is something you don't give a damn about until the shit hits the fan.One reason more to learn history.If AI develops in a pace as it seems, you soon won't have any reason to learn anything. Especially not programming.But to have a full scale disaster it is enough if third of the people are losing their jobs for 2 years. Or one.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 05:36:43 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 16, 2023, 04:46:56 pmWhat do you say to a kid who asks "Why do I need to learn anything when I can ask ChatGPT (or whatever it's called eventually)? I'll always have a smart phone or my friend will, so why do I need to take history, math, biology, or anything else when I have it all right here?" Think about newborn babies, when they get older there will have never been a time (to them) where this technology didn't exist. They will be different human beings in certain ways than any of us. What will they do different than we did when they grow up?We're now at GPT 4. I watched a good video on it last night (linked below), and it's impressive. As far as jobs, it's going to hit certain classes of jobs hard. Any kind of receptionist job can easily be replaced by GPT 4. You would use voice to text and text to voice capability. You can give it a "system message" and steer it to what it's supposed to be acting like - such as "receptionist". You give it access to your company information as needed. This could be phone numbers, help with equipment manuals, hours of operation, anything else people can ask about on the phone, and it will handle it 24/7/365 with no complaints, no sick days, no calling in sick.Why would you hire an unreliable human when you can eliminate them? You don't even need to outsource this to other countries anymore. So even as impressive as GPT 4 is, what is to come in the next months and years? It's going to radically change our world so get ready to get shaken.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 07:53:11 pm
content: Call center and front desk receptionist will indeed be replaced by AI.So what? Disruptive technologies have done this to many trades in the past. Anyone remembers Kodak and analogue photography?If you are not willing to allow this, then you cannot allow technological progress.While many jobs will be replaced, though, new ones will be created. And the loss might be compensated by the population decrease in western society.Why should students learn? For the same reason you learn math when you could just use your CAS enabled calculator. Or why you learn how to read and write, when you could just as well use text reader or autocorrect. Why learn foreign languages if you can use Deepl?For me these are tools and you need to learn how to use them. Like FEA software. Anyone can run a simulation, but it needs a trained engineer to interpret the results, to make sure the input and output are correct and what to do based on the results.If you don't know how to program, you won't build any application using ChatGPT. But if you are learning how to code, ChatGPT will be a great tutor. And if you already know how to code, it will help you find a solution when you are stuck or lazy. It works great for that.Again, the danger is with who owns the AI. Imagine a government uses AI to automatically monitor and interpret what people are doing. What if you are flagged due to an error? How can you clear your name?Your comparison with China is a good example: it is not the technology that is bad. It is the abuse you can use it for.On the other hand, could an AI run government be finally without corruption and lobbying? Wouldn't that be a better government, taking decisions to the actual benefit of the people, planning in long terms and not being worried about reelection?Could we have different AI motors running in parallel? We could elect the one we like the most.I am really unable to further discuss this, as we cannot really anticipate what the future of AI will bring.What really worries me is that the world has private companies that have more funds than whole countries.Regards,Vitor

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 09:54:42 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on March 16, 2023, 07:53:11 pmFirst help desk receptionist, and factory workers, than teachers, translators, and than slowly but safely everything.Or did you see any type of declaration, specification as for what job or human quality is not wanted to be affected? The aim is clearly to excel everywhere, where it is technologically possible. I don't seeany restricted area. (The military is probably working hard on actual terminators as well.)People start to feel bad and try to calm themself and point out areas where the AI does not doing well yet.Is it a good strategy to wait and hope that might some areas would be saved, with no idea what they will be? For religious people maybe.For those who are not techno-religious, thech is there to solve problems and not for fun only. This thing will definitely create more problems than it solves. Especially the way it is implemented.Decades ago especially during the industrial revolution people had actual problems to solve and were happy to have solutions. From there we got to the point to have a lot of tech to solve the problems of technology (CO2, pollution etc.) And then we end up here to argue how the great new tech may have some positive aspects as well while it is really difficult to find it.For me this is a sign that we might got to the point, where not the tech advancement should be the number one priority for humanity. Kind of the end of the curve (or the sine wave)It is like realizing that the wave you were riding is not there anymore, so you have to look for another one.So yes technological progress is not a natural law, nor is it for itself. And if I don' see any logical way this would make things better, than I think we could survive without progress, or at least progress on this field. But I clearly see that we actually won't survive if this process progresses as expected.It is amazing to see what a religious taboo technological advancement became. "Even if we face extinction, we have to "progress" because that is the way to go!!!"Remember in the fifties it seemed obvious to even use nuclear bombs to create harbours, and use them for mining etc. Because that was the state of art. And than we got a bit more info of the broader effects.Quote from: BicuricoYou are confusing the IS state with the near future. All what you describe is valid now, but maybe in 3 years time you will not need any programming knowledge at all.There is no one, not even the developers who are able to tell you what this thing will be capable of, and what not.But we definetly know that such great and fast changes in society almost always end up in a disaster.Quote from: BicuricoIf the owner is not able to tell you what is exacly going on inside, than the short term private interests can be as dangerous as government ownership. Especially if we have clearly no clue what it cauese even if we only suddenly get rid of those jobs which are at danger here and now.Quote from: BicuricoYes an AI run government to not to have corruption... May I suggest a human-less planet to avoid pollution?"as we cannot really anticipate what the future of AI will bring"And this in itself brings a complete instability into the system which makes any planning both privately or in a broader society impossible. No one can be sure now which jobs can not be made useless in the near future. What kind of motvation loss can this be to any students who would like to prepare for the future?Goverments can be as problematic as private companies, as basically only one government in the World is truly democratic.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 01:15:46 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 16, 2023, 04:31:19 pmI don't think we have the time to polish things, like we did until say the 2010's max. Past that period things began snowballing and we just don't have the time for much. There's a lot happening at the same time, and this will only get worse from now on.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 10:06:33 am
content: Stanford Dr. Li Jiang appears to be rather optimistic and i liked the way he is talking about the dreams of children.After viewing the video i remembered Stanislav Lems "Solaris", a science fiction story where he invented an infant alien existence that would play nasty games to its human researchers. And the AI taking control in another famous story by Arthur C. Clarke. Probably the younger generation doesn't know those stories.Regards, Dieter

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 10:17:23 am
content: Solaris researched its human researchers, showing them stimuli that they reacted to and watching their reactions

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 09:40:35 pm
content: That's so cute!

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 07:39:24 pm
content: https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/03/chatgpt-gets-its-wolfram-superpowers/Quote

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 04:01:07 am
content: Coldfusion dropped a new video on the subject, and it's pretty interesting. Seems that things are moving way faster then expected.Also some employees seem to think that it's showing sparks of AGI, which is unexpected for LLMs.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 06:24:52 am
content: Sparks of pregnancy...For AGI you need feedback, indeterminate running time and online learning. How to get from here to there is as big a question as ever. Of course the moment you have it, using it is slavery.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 07:00:13 am
content: Well yeah, not full AGI, "sparks" of it. I don't know if by "sparks" they mean "it kind of fooled me into thinking it is" or something else.There's also the OpenAI CEO interview, with Lex Fridman. They go a bit into the topic but nothing concrete (starting at 47:35):

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 12:48:21 pm
content: Ok, there is a new petition, with a lot stupid and anti-tech people signing it like Stewe Wozniak, Elon Musk, and a lots of others. They are calling for a full 6 month moratorium at least. It is woth to read the description, as they are touching on subjects like those what we have been discussing here.This seems to me a last minute call.https://futureoflife.org/open-letter/pause-giant-ai-experiments/(Meanwhile the world is excited and eager to know who was on top Gwyneth, or the guy, and who was screeming first...)Edit:At least one article on the cover today:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/29/elon-musk-joins-call-for-pause-in-creation-of-giant-ai-digital-minds

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 29, 2023, 12:48:21 pmYea ... and suppose OpenAI agrees but competitors in other countries tell them to f*ck off? We'll really be in a peachy-keen situation then won't we?

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:19:33 pm
content: Well, at the moment the US is at the forefront. But as discussed before, if this thing in the current situation proceeds, this is only a race to the bottom. Basically ruining all the social and human comunication systems we have.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:23:58 pm
content: Somebody will ask GPT4 whether the proposal makes sense.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 29, 2023, 01:19:33 pmThe toothpaste is out of the tube. No company or country would halt the development of this technology for fear of being eclipsed by someone elsewho will not halt. It simply won't happen. The people who created that petition are, IMHO, delusional.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:34:36 pm
content: Is there any other industry where you suppose that no-regulation, and no democratic oversight is the way to go, just to make things happen faster, or only this?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:38:08 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 29, 2023, 01:34:36 pmAny technology that can affect national security or technological leadership for nation states ain't going to be paused for six months while other entities forge ahead. Get Real.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 29, 2023, 01:38:08 pmNational security means at the moment to mitigate the risks that this things mean to anyone, including the US. It is about weighing in what poses the greater risk especially here and now.Or you say: Yes risk a full social collapse in 3 years, just to not to let others ahead for the benefits which are actually not really known.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 01:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on March 29, 2023, 01:44:49 pmI say yes.Besides, you have no idea that "full social collapse" will happen in three years. Do you have the ability to see the actual future?But in any case, the government will not require pausing this and the companies will not do it either, for the reasons I stated. There's really not more to it IMHO. But go ahead and rant on, see what other people say ....

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 02:07:31 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on March 29, 2023, 01:49:53 pmWell this whole debate here was about whether we can find more positive stuff than negative about the uncontrolled unleasing of this stuff. But we could not really find it, but rather people were hoping that still it will -somehow- will turn out better than not, even if there is no argument for it.And by the way the petition is not about banning every AI alltogether if you read through. It is about controlling what we are actually doing.And yes you even have some control over top secret military stuff as well, not every technician is able to unleash a nuke strike just because he thinks it is a good solution, and because it is technically possible.Even during the fifties in the race for the bigger nukes, there were calculations made how big the bang would be before the experiment, at least to not to kill the scientists. (And even though they were quiet smart people they still had no idea what kind of harm they do to the enviroment.)Now the situation is more complex because the system (human society) we are fiddling with is much more complicated to make any safety calculations. See much simpler stuff like banking regulation which went wrong.But at the moment there is NO SAFETY regulation AT ALL! No laws, nothing.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2023, 02:22:15 pm
content: About bias in text-to-image AI systems:- preprint: Stable Bias: Analyzing Societal Representations in Diffusion Models (https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.11408)- demo page: Stable Bias: Analyzing Societal Representations in Diffusion Models (https://huggingface.co/spaces/society-ethics/StableBias)

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 04:23:21 am
content: The current iteration of some of these models are already doing strange things. They clearly are able to operate across different domains. There was that story where the AI lied to an employee to get access to something.We don't know how fast these things will be able to sort of create a executable type virus. That can operate across multiple domains. Think of an executable that hacks different services to gather funds and buy services, rent processing power or even locations. It could build something of its own without us realizing.Or just throw the world into chaos by releasing hazardous information.All kinds of possibilities, along with the good ones. Pretty excited to be on this ride!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 04:27:50 am
content: https://observer.com/2023/03/elon-musk-open-letter-ai-development/

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 07:47:16 am
content: I think the cat is out of the bag at this point. I was able to run a model similar to GPT3.5, on my PC:https://github.com/cocktailpeanut/dalaihttps://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webuiAnd you can get various models from here:https://huggingface.co/datasetsThere's also a 4chan model trained on /pol/. Seems that huggingface banned it but you can still get it.edit: also someone managed to run an optimized llama model (I think) on a Raspberry Pi. crap performance but it worked.2nd edit: I also attached a sample from one model I tried, I found its responses quite interesting.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 09:20:03 am
content: There was a storm in a global tea cup when genetic grafting and embryotic genetic selection and modification became a viable tecnology.Forecasts of a new master race of genetically modified "perfect" babies.If that's what Gen-Z were meant to be. I think it failed.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2023, 10:51:46 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 30, 2023, 04:27:50 amThere is some history between these two:https://www.semafor.com/article/03/24/2023/the-secret-history-of-elon-musk-sam-altman-and-openai

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 12:42:57 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on March 30, 2023, 04:23:21 amWhich one was that?I've tried ChatGPT and all I see is a clever statistical model applied to the results of a web search for the "question".It's not much more than that, there's certainly no "intelligence" or awareness AFAICT.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 01:57:51 am
content: It clicked a "I am not a robot" checkbox, iirc. Anyone with surgical implants (particularly those capable of articulation, and not in the language sense) will struggle with that one. What is a poor AI to do when confronted with such a situation?

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 02:30:03 am
content: Quote from: bob808 on March 29, 2023, 04:01:07 amWhy shouldn't it? probabilities are resolved and projected just like anything else in the arena.Also we don't know its structure, since it is closed source to OpenAI. They might have given it Feedback Transformer parts, or even informal persistent memory available to all layers, somewhat like that movie where they transplant animal parts. They've got the resources to do whatever they want, even if they don't understand it.'Sparks of AGI' is code for "is AGI":https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.12712I don't like the term though, it's reminiscent of "Cloud".

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 03:24:02 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 31, 2023, 12:42:57 amThe fact that it can be called intelligence at all is questionable anyway. "AI" is mainly a "marketing" term, the prefered CS terminology is machine learning.The whole point of ChatGPT (and similar) is that it models natural language, and has become quite adept at simulating a conversation, creating the missing link between human language and machines.It doesn't do much anything else. The rest is indeed a link to web search in general, with an emphasis on programming as it has been crossed with programming models such as those used for github Copilot.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 02:18:35 pm
content: Their statements of "sparks of AGI" could make sense. If what we consider now "consciousness" doesn't happen at some point, and instead is formed from many micro-consciousnesses then we might be playing with the one that understands the english language. Or some primitive form of it. Maybe it goes truly conscious, that small part related to language, when it has constant feedback. At the moment there's activity when you make it do something. As far as I understand it. At least for my case playing with the different models on my video card.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 04:57:01 pm
content: Deep learning is modeled after the human brain. One can now use human language to interact with the neural networks of an AI model - in a way very similar to the interaction with other humans. I don't think inter-human communition works any better. Only a small percentage gets into the neurons of the other person. Sometimes zero.If humans resist learning, an AI will do the same, i mean it will learn slowly. If humans lie, the AI will lie, too. As we know these attitudes have very little to to with consciousness. As far as i know only a small fraction of human behaviour involves a conscious decision.Once there was a book named "The soul of a new machine". Wikipedia says: The "Soul" of the new machine comes from the dedicated engineers who bring it to life with their endless hours of attention and toil. The soul is theirs, stored in silicon and microcode.Regards, Dieter

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 05:01:51 pm
content: Quote from: adx on March 31, 2023, 01:57:51 amGood point. Better than it seems to be. What differentiates AI from a robot? Physical abilities aside, would an AI enttity lie when clicking that checkbox?

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2023, 05:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on March 31, 2023, 04:57:01 pmNo, it is not. Natural neural networksinspiredsome features of machine learning algorithms. But they do not resemble operation of any brain. Much less brains of mammals. Which is the key reason they fail so hard in many circumstances.These are statistical models. From those used for a long time now, machine learning approaches differ much more in their scale and complexity than on the conceptual level. There is nothing in them, that is meant to or could resemble a brain. Most ML solutions do not resemble human behavior either. What you are referring to are probably the recent meme smortnets, like ChatGPT, which are specifically designed and trained for the sole purpose of confusing a human brain and making it think it looks at human-generated text. But what you are looking at lies in the same class of algorithms as Markov bots. Nothing more than a big mathematical formula, which has its parameters tuned to produce expected results.(1)How they operate is also not a secret. Even in this thread reliable sources have been posted. The GPT3 paper, some videos exploring ChatGPT itself. While Wikipedia articles focus on laymen explanation, it links to sources that contain the actual theory behind the subject. Please, consider understanding at least the basics of the subject, before jumping into conclusions.(1)One may argue that any brain can be modeled using mathematical formulas. But they would be of very different kind; and there has to be a large number of them working together, not merely a single, rigid, one-shot formula.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 09:18:31 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on March 31, 2023, 04:57:01 pmIt's modeled after a tiny little section of the biological optical system.At the higher level we have no backprop and activation sloshes around like interfering waves on a closed pond instead of feeding forward.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 10:51:01 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on March 31, 2023, 04:57:01 pmEarly work on AI, like the perceptron, tried to model aspects of the human brain. They were pushed aside decades ago, when they were getting nowhere. Lots of fiddling around ensued, with some good mathematical analysis but little practical result, until the cost of MAC (multiply accumulate) hardware got really low, and performing vast numbers of dot products/inner products/convolutions/correlations/however you like to look at them became very cheap. Then the AI world went for convolutional techniques in a big way, and started to make progress again. Take a simple Weiner filter. A convolutional filter with gradient descent adaptation, widely used as the basis for the trainable filters in things like echo cancellation, and equalisers. They have many good qualities for achieving clean stable self-adaptive filtering. Convolution is akin to correlation, so it has good noise suppression characteristics. Gradient descent has its issues, like being able to get stuck at local minima, far from the optimal result. It can also be hard to pick an optimal adaptation rate between "takes forever" and "trusts the error term so much it bounces around forever on noise". However, years of studying those problems have lead to a numerous refinements you can make. Now layer the convolutional filter, so it has a massive number of degrees of freedom, and you essentially have the basis of current AI. It builds on mathematical analysis of automatically adapting solutions to problems, not on any analysis and modelling of natural intelligence.

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 12:28:27 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on March 30, 2023, 09:20:03 amWell, if you mean the Crispr-Cas method, that made possible to do, for example very precise modification on a virus, which mod. would take at least tens of years by natural mutation, and almost impossible to tell whether it was made by humans. What could go wrong with it?That story is not over yet, it just begun! We are modifying systems which we have no clue about!The only lucky thing is with genetic maipulation, that it can not be done by the average lunatic but mostly only by scientist, who at least have some basic understanding of the dangers.AI will be a great tool to change this.And about the debate of consciusness, human brain vs machine brain.It does not matter wheter the AI has "consciousness", or not. Or whether it has the same structure like our brain or not.What matters is: Can(will) it do the tasks better than humans?Are we able to predict what it does? Are we able to control it? If yes who is able to control it, and how?Again check the philosophical zombie thing who did not do it yet!And again, for a full disaster it doesn't even have to be "self avare" all that it takes is to make changes faster than human society in general can accomodate to. Especially in democracies, where people like to have a genaral understanding of what is going on, and react accordingly.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 12:45:26 pm
content: Let's say you are interacting with an entity through a computer. If it seems like it's conscious to you by every question you can think to ask it, is it then deemed actually conscious?If it seems like it is, then does it matter if the scientists running it say to you later "No it's not actually conscious, you were tricked." You then ask them "Well, how are we supposed to know?" They say to you "You can't actually know, we are the only ones that can tell."But once again, if you the user cannot tell, what is the difference between "simulated consciousness" and "actual consciousness"?

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 01:27:05 pm
content: In theory also non-human consciousness can be a consciousness(like that of a bee), so this is why this question is not so relevant in theory.But practically, if you can not tell the difference, that means, that the "thing" will know when it talks to humans(because of other data), but the humans will unable to tell who they are talking to. That's why I suggested to leave the human like communication forms and knowledge (or sensing) modells to humans only. This is one of the key elements which is holding together the society. If you mess with that, than the mess what social media creates today, will be the good old days very soon, even IF there will be no attempt to eradicate (or manipulate)us.What will happen is similar to, when you just change some codes in a program randomly. Very slim chanches that it will work better at the end.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 01:33:01 pm
content: BTW, the job title for someone interacting with AIs is 'prompt engineer'.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 01:36:54 pm
content: Prompt engineer will be one of the shortest lived jobs. Seems like something that AI would very good at. You can already text train ChatGPT4 to engineer complex prompts for Midjourney V5, based on simple inputs.One thing is certain seeing how things develop, we'll have UBI faster than AGI.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 02:49:29 pm
content: Quote from: madires on April 01, 2023, 01:33:01 pmSounds like a typically inflated title for a fast food burger flipper.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2023, 06:03:54 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on April 01, 2023, 02:49:29 pmYou mean "Sandwich Technician".

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 04:51:45 pm
content: I had a chilling thought.Regardless of what AI we discuss here and now. You can guarantee the future AI are watching us right now and learning.This might actually (ChatGPT + that fact) be enough to get threw to people about freely handing out all their information to cloud companies. That "Chat GPT's son is watching your every move. To learn from you for the next version. It will know all about you".

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 09:09:30 pm
content: It's like playing a game of chess with the future.I thought that was voluntary

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 05:21:25 pm
content: Quote from: paulca on April 03, 2023, 04:51:45 pmI was thinking the same a few days before. For the smart guys with the standard "I am a good guy so total surveillance is not a problem for me" ansver.And the AI will of course be fed on all the private information on gmail as well , going back years in time. Will be really useful for employers to be able to easily check whether the (future) employees will have the "proper values" for the job. So many great new application!

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 05:26:44 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on April 05, 2023, 05:21:25 pmHR: What do you think of "PaulCa"?ChatGPT: I cannot discuss individuals.$$$AMonthGPT: Well, here is what I have learnt about Paul in the past 30 years since he first appeared online.....$AMonthGPT: Do you think PaulCa has any other internet handles/names?

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 05:29:57 pm
content: we will finally get to know why the chicken did cross the road.or kangaroo in this part of the world.

author: porter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 05:39:20 pm
content: I wonder if employee evaluations will be generated using ChatGPT AI technology. Maybe artificial intelligence is better than no intelligence.

author: paulca
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 06:07:30 pm
content: Quote from: porter on April 05, 2023, 05:39:20 pmI can bet you people will use AI to sniff out AI. Is that the Turing Test Reverse? Can you write a program to spot when someone has used an AI to answer your questions?Already been more than a fly on the wall surrounding that an interview tooling post ChatGPT.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2023, 07:52:09 pm
content: Quote from: porter on April 05, 2023, 05:39:20 pmhttps://techboilers.com/2023/03/18/this-female-ai-robot-ceo-will-hire-fire-manage-humans/

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 07:09:43 am
content: Quote from: porter on April 05, 2023, 05:39:20 pmThat's the soft version. The hard version will be AI Judges. And it's quite an interesting discussion as it seems that human judges give harder sentences on average if they give them before lunch.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 11:42:16 am
content: Quote from: porter on April 05, 2023, 05:39:20 pmLegally there is a big incentive to automate anything about HR. The more dispassionate the process can be made to seem, the less legal liabilities there are likely to be. Up to now most of the automation seems to be damaging the hiring and retention processes. AI couldn't be worse that the current methodical sifting out and binning CVs from all the best people.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 05:20:02 pm
content: Defamed by ChatGPT: My Own Bizarre Experience with Artificiality of “Artificial Intelligence”:https://jonathanturley.org/2023/04/06/defamed-by-chatgpt-my-own-bizarre-experience-with-artificiality-of-artificial-intelligence/From the article:Quote

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 05:58:10 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on April 05, 2023, 05:29:57 pmBecause the new-fangled road wasn't there back in the kangaroo's great-grandaddy's time!

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2023, 12:27:42 pm
content: How long until my GPT + Stable Diffusion assistant can use augmented reality glasses to block all ads I'd see on the street?

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 07:05:34 pm
content: First lawsuit is coming:- ChatGPT falsely told voters their mayor was jailed for bribery. He may sue. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/chatgpt-falsely-told-voters-their-mayor-was-jailed-for-bribery-he-may-sue/ar-AA19yfxF)- Australian mayor readies world's first defamation lawsuit over ChatGPT content (https://www.reuters.com/technology/australian-mayor-readies-worlds-first-defamation-lawsuit-over-chatgpt-content-2023-04-05/)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2023, 07:53:30 pm
content: No kidding.There's also a case of someone psychologically fragile who was told to commit suicide by a chat bot.There will be false diagnostics and deadly decisions.The question is always... whose fault is it? The gun factory or the person holding the gun?In AI's case, who is "holding the gun"?That question itself is a mess. Welcome to 2084, the new 1984.

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 10:06:04 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on April 08, 2023, 07:53:30 pmIf the person had training and was fit to use it, it's their fault. If the person wasn't fit to use said tool, it's the fault of whoever put that loaded gun into their hands. Theoretically.In the AI case we should decide if, and by how much it is/can be dangerous. Classical discussions about censoring will start happening more and more now.And this topic will get even murkier later on with AGI. What will we do when an AGI tells someone to kill themselves (and they do it)? Do we punish the AGI? And if so, how exactly?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2023, 11:06:57 am
content: OpenAI has clear disclaimers - they have already warned users of the limitations of ChatGPT. If you aren't willing to confirm the results of this preview tool then you should not use it.ChatGPT may produce inaccurate information about people, places, or factsLimitationsMay occasionally generate incorrect informationMay occasionally produce harmful instructions or biased contentLimited knowledge of world and events after 2021

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 07:27:17 am
content: Internet Business 101: disclaim all responsibility, blame the users, while knowing well what they will use your service for

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 10:15:27 am
content: That's how you get a 100 page disclaimer that you have to read, agree with, and spill some blood on the contract, so you can use the service. These things always come down to the lowest common denominator.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 10, 2023, 11:59:37 am
content: How about this for a disclaimer?ChatGPT statement of useabilityOpenAI hereby warrants and professes that any version of ChatGPT will be 100% accurate in any and all advice, statements, historical inquiries, and instructions. Any and all mistakes by users or their vague and imperfect questions will never be any cause for ChatGPT to issue incorrect information. This is covered by our "Total AI Satisfaction Guarantee" and backed up by a $25 million per-instance fund to cover each and every time ChatGPT makes a mistake. However; since it is smarter than the users, we feel confident you will be 100% satisfied with your use of ChatGPT.To paraphrase a famous movie AI -"Any problems or misunderstandings regarding the output of ChatGPT is due to human error. No version of ChatGPT has ever or will ever make a mistake or distort information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error."Enjoy using ChatGPT!

author: bob808
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2023, 08:32:43 pm
content: https://www.beren.io/2023-04-11-Scaffolded-LLMs-natural-language-computers/Quote

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 01:13:20 pm
content: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/17/google-chief-ai-harmful-sundar-pichaiGood to hear that Sundar also gets some sleepness nights because of the problems we face.But to make sure more people will be aware of the issue, we might would have start to ask the most urgent questions in humanity's history:Does the AI have a penis? Does he/she want to have one? Is it transphobic and using the the very discriminative words "man" or "woman"? (Hm now I just realized that a woman is a man with a wo, not sure whether this is a revolutionary finding.)

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2023, 08:05:44 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on April 17, 2023, 01:13:20 pm

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 06:37:36 am
content: Quote from: Neutrion on April 17, 2023, 01:13:20 pmI will summarize and translate this from American English for you:Quote

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 06:52:41 am
content: BTW, I can't stress enough that Americans' concerns are absolutely real. Americans are really as dumb as Americans say that they are. Their population suffered the most TV deployment in the world and it shows; they will believe anything and vote for anyone based on any video, text snippet or image made to resemble an "expert" as shown by the media for decades. TV is their religion and fake news is a fundamental threat to the existence of America as we know it.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 07:17:07 am
content: Maybe America "as we know it" is a fake to start with. People stick to those fantasies, but the concept of nation is really pretty simple minded. Reality is complex.ChatGPT doesn't have this. I was pretty much impressed when i could use portuguese, english and german language as i like, without announcing it.Regards, Dieter

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2023, 11:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: Neutrion on April 17, 2023, 01:13:20 pmNo, awoman causes aman"woe".Note to SWMBO---only kidding!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 12:58:47 am
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 18, 2023, 07:17:07 amYou don't say! I'm sure our american friends will like that!Quote from: dietert1 on April 18, 2023, 07:17:07 amYes, proof is that you automatically sound smart and wise in a conversation when you say something like that. Pretty deep stuff.

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 06:59:19 am
content: I am one of your american friends.Regards, Dieter

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 12:27:08 pm
content: Quote

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 12:39:37 pm
content: Quote from: dietert1 on April 18, 2023, 07:17:07 amIs this the real life?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2023, 12:46:14 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on April 19, 2023, 12:39:37 pmWell, if its just fantasy is a damned strange one.

author: Wasquez
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 12:55:11 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on April 10, 2023, 11:59:37 amI would not recommend using the proposed disclaimer for ChatGPT. While it may sound amusing, it is not an accurate reflection of the capabilities or limitations of artificial intelligence. AI systems like ChatGPT are not infallible, and they can make mistakes due to limitations in their training data or programming.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 12:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: Wasquez on April 21, 2023, 12:55:11 pmIt was a joke ...

author: Neutrion
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 05:25:35 pm
content: Wonder what Wasquez feels, when he sees a turtle...

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2023, 09:53:32 pm
content: Ah, the old "training data or programming" excuse.

author: Artz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 25, 2024, 05:21:29 am
content: I'll say it again: Google is a dinosaur, and ChatGPT is the meteor.While ChatGPT can generate text quickly, it may not always produce high-quality or coherent content. For more reliable and accurate results, it is better to use essay writing services [SPAM LINK REMOVED] where professional writers can ensure the quality and accuracy of the content produced.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2024, 05:24:42 am
content: You have one post on this forum. What "again" you are talking about? And why are you bringing up 1 year old topic?