Wanting to learn oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 am
content: Hey guys. On and off over the years i've wanted to learn how to use an oscilloscope. I think it would greatly help me in the automotive world to be able to diagnose better than with just a meter and experience. I'd also like to get into PC repair and allowing me to test components would be great. And i'm sure as i learn i'll apply it in other areas. However, i have no clue where to start. I watch videos and read books (to a degree) but get lost in... how do you know a good wave form vs bad. How do you know where to test? I can set up the scope but after that (besides amplifier gain setting) i'm lost. Do they sell kits with both good and bad components or somehow teach diagnostic approach? Something i can sit with at home until i understand?

author: PGPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 11:44:11 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 amTo understand what wave is good and what bad you don't need to learn how to use oscilloscope but you need to learn electronics at all.I started learning electronics when I was 10 from building my first radio receiver and spend on it all my free time to reach in age of 24 a level that allowed me to design and build oscilloscope that I've been dreaming of having it all this time.Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 amNo, but changing good component into bad is generally simple. When you will start to do some electronics experiments it will certainly happen to you in the most surprising moments.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 11:52:39 am
content: I guess my question is...where do i start?I'm more of a hands on learner.

author: watchmaker
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 12:17:40 pm
content: Your needs are highly specific (automotive) and the signals of interest to you are different than those generally of interest to those here. While there is a great scope introduction linked in the stickies at the top of this subgroup, you might be better served reading information on the automotive technician forums (reddit???).

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 12:48:46 pm
content: I am also looking to learn electronics troubleshooting as a whole. I feel that once I have a handle on where to test and what I’m viewing on the screen I can adapt. I felt like I’d never learn how to use a multimeter either but I’m very confident with one. Looking to add a scope to my lineup.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 01:44:05 pm
content: Good Morning Live2fish88, My opinion is for you to get a scope, (borrow or buy),then RTFM, (Read The Fine Manual), and then start 'playing' with it until you arefamiliar with all the controls. Also there are many threads about which scope to buy, so scan some of them to get an idea of which scope would fit your needs.Then come back here with more specific questions. That is a start for you.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 01:47:08 pm
content: Quote from: BILLPOD on February 01, 2025, 01:44:05 pmDoes price dictate quality or features more so? 2 channel or 4 has really been my hangup on purchase. I don't want to purchase a 2 channel and need 4 later on or purchase a 4 and not use 2. Also, 100mhz vs 70 vs 30. I guess purchase is my hangup and getting too much in a scope vs too little. Unsure what electronics would hit the 70 vs 100hz cap or how many people look at 4 waves simultaneously and how often that's done for simple DIY/automotive.

author: Grandchuck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 02:17:36 pm
content: I guess it depends on how deep you want to get into it. The article linked below shows a fairly high end oscilloscope in use.https://www.edn.com/debug-can-can-fd-buses-with-an-oscilloscope/

author: Shock
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 02:44:08 pm
content: I've a list of repair books and magazines here, a lot of these you can find online now and see if it's worth buying such as "Diagnosis and Troubleshooting of Automotive Electrical James D. Halderman".https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/repair-and-service-books-magazines-dvds/Reading the entire oscilloscope manual is a good place to start, take notes on the concepts or terms you are unsure of and look them up online.As for what scope to get, if you are primarily working away from a bench you may want a handheld scope. Having 4 channels is nice and useful for digital work and entry level bench scopes have this for virtually no extra cost, so there is an incentive to get it on bench scopes.

author: ahsrabrifat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 03:03:43 pm
content: EEV blog has a very good series of oscilloscope tutorials. You can check it out here:https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsCTtj-T_vkpTTbBXW4sB51

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 03:31:23 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 01:47:08 pmYou already have a pretty good USB scope, don't you?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/beginner-oscilloscope/msg5772707/#msg5772707

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 03:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: Aldo22 on February 01, 2025, 03:31:23 pmI do but not at all a fan of the UI. I’d like to get a physical unit with buttons and knob’s

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 03:58:30 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 12:48:46 pmI think you need to learn electronics as a general subject before you can make much sense of what an oscilloscope says. You mention your familiarity with a multimeter, which is a great start, but really that is more about "electricals" than "electronics". The first thing to say is that electronics is not a simple subject - there's a lot to it.I think the best way to learn electronics - at least to start with - is to build a few published designs. Here in the UK I subscribe to Elektor and Practical Electronics, and they publish a wide range of projects from beginner to expert level. The big benefit is that they usually give a good explanation of how the device works, which you can learn a lot from. Practical Electronics in particular publishes a lot of educational content which makes it exceptionally valuable for people climbing the learning curve.You ask how to tell the difference between a good waveform and a bad one. Well, you have to learn what a good waveform looks like at that particular point in the circuit, and that requires you to understand at least a bit about how that circuit works and what it does. There isn't a shortcut to this, except sometimes - if you are very lucky - you might find a service manual for the item with voltages and waveforms given.After some experience building published projects you can start to modify existing designs to better suit your needs. Sometimes it won't work so you'll need to troubleshoot what you've done. That is a very valuable step. Eventually you can start doing simple designs of your own.Finally, it won't be long before you will need to get familiar with the world of microcontrollers and programming. This is because nowadays a lot of functionality is implemented in software. I recommend you start with Arduino because the hardware is cheap, the programming tools are simple and free, and it's the easiest learning curve of all. Furthermore, designing a project for yourself, to do something useful, will be a great opportunity to combine some programming practice with some electronics design. You'll love it, I promise.By the way, if you want to get into repairing PCs, there is very little use for an oscilloscope due to the modular, "black box" approach they use. That is, schematics for motherboards, video cards, sound cards, etc, are extremely difficult to come by so knowing what and where to probe is pretty difficult. Faulting down to electronic component level is rarely practicable. Virtually all repairs to PCs involve replacing the faulty module: the SSD, the processor, the motherboard, the PSU, the plug-in card. I've been building (and occasionally repairing) PCs for well over 30 years, and I've never once made use of an oscilloscope.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 04:05:48 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 am30+ years ago when I was working as an auto mechanic I bought a Fluke 98 Scopemeter and it was invaluable. Cars at the time had poor to nonexistent self-diagnostic capabilities and being able to "see what is going on" cracked a lot of tough problems. The 98 also has a lot of auto-specific functions like ignition analysis, cranking compression balance and lots more. This greatly improved what I was able to do and how quickly. However, over the years the usefulness of the scope declined. OBD-II was implemented and improved over the coming years. Ignition systems were reduced to integral coil systems where a scope could only look at the primary--if even that. I haven't worked as a mechanic for many years but I still have the Scopemeter. I doubt I would use it on a daily basis if I were working on modern cars.There are still uses for an oscilloscope if you work on chassis electrical and engine control systems. There are many sensors that have waveforms that will clearly show if there is a defect. However, a typical bench oscilloscope is very unwieldy and using on an automotive system probably poses some danger to you, the car and the scope. I'd recommend either a cheap handheld of some sort or ideally, a Picoscope.As for learning, you do need a good basic knowledge of electronics to be able to know what you are doing. That really can't be done totally hands-on, you're going to have to read a book sometime. However, your knowledge doesn't have to be extensive or deep to be able to make use of a scope for diagnosing automotive issues. You might start with some basic "toy" level electronics like an Arduino and just learn about how signals work, how to set up your scope, etc. A big hint--getting the scope to trigger when you want it to but not when you don't want it to is often the biggest challenge for beginners. It's not always as easy as it looks.QuoteI don't think a scope is useful for PC repair and the only component I've ever tested with a scope is the power supply. You certainly can't test memory or video cards that way, at least not with a scope that you can afford.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 04:35:03 pm
content: I bought my Rigol DS1054Z specifically to get 4 channels. My 350 MHz Tek 485 already had more bandwidth.Why? I was messing around with the SPI protocol and I wanted to see an entire transaction. I wanted to frame the display with CS' and watch SCK, MISO and MOSI. That I could get decoding was a bonus.It's just a choice, maybe you never need 4 channels. My first scope was single channel and I built it from plans in the ARRL Handbook circa 1960. Interesting project for a young person... I got by with a 10 MHz dual channel Heathkit for quite a long time and built a lot of 8085 projects and even a floppy controller for the Altair 8800 with the S100 bus. It only clocked at 2 MHz so a real fast scope wasn't required. Ten MHZ wasn't really enough (20 MHz would have been a lot better) but the Heathkit got me by.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 04:52:57 pm
content: If I were coaching someone in learning electronics, I would drag them screaming and kicking over to the Digilent Analog Discovery 3 page. I don't like the new and improved pricing (from Digilent's POV) but it has enough capability to handle just about every electronic concept I am aware of (probably not including Maxwell's Equations).Download the free Waveforms software and use the simulated Demo device. Wander around, generate waveforms, play with the dual channel scope, think about the digital IO capability and realize that the entire system can be run from a user defined script.https://digilent.com/shop/out-of-the-box-solutionsA short video - there is a ton of documentation at the Digilent site.

author: Lovro7
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:02:38 pm
content: For starters, I would recommend purchasing an analog oscilloscope or an analog storage oscilloscope (for example, the Hameg HM205-3). One advantage of a storage oscilloscope is that it allows you to observe very low frequencies.Once you can read all the data from the screen and calculate values using the button configuration, you will be able to buy a serious digital oscilloscope and learn to use it in just five minutes.An oscilloscope is almost never used for computer repairs. It might be useful only for the power supply and speakers. One of the reasons is frequency—computers operate at several GHz, and such oscilloscopes are not even available for retail purchase.

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 09:20:07 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on February 01, 2025, 04:05:48 pm+1 on this.I think I agree that you need to learn a bit about electronics first. Otherwise you won't really know what you are looking at, but as far as what kind of scope you need .. I would say 4ch. for sure. Most automotive specific scopes are 8ch. This for monitoring injector or ignition pulses. You won't need an extremely fast scope. 70MHz would be fine. Getting one with decent serial decoding would be a distinct benefit for checking inter-module communication.A Siglent SDS804X-HD might be a good start. It can easily be "upgraded/improved" to full functionality (SDS824X-HD with all options).

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2025, 11:48:30 pm
content: Any recommendations on learning electronics?

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 12:12:04 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:48:30 pmSure, but it all depends on your expectations. A full degree program simply requires getting admitted to the college/university of your choice and studying your ass off for about 5 years. Everything is already decided in terms of curriculum.For hobby level (and likely technician level) there are a bunch of opportunities. Khan Academy has an online EE program that I haven't really looked at but the organization is well known for their math videos - they are really good.https://www.khanacademy.org/search?referer=%2F&page_search_query=electrical&content_kinds=TopicThere is a decent program at Digilent called Real Analoghttps://digilent.com/reference/learn/courses/real-analog/startThe electronic part of these courses is pretty straightforward but the math gets intense fairly early and keeps on going. There is a math related course every semester of the entire 5 years in the university program. Fortunately, Khan Academy can help and there are many other resources on the web. You might want to look at Dave's videos (Fundamentals) and check out 3blue1brown videos. By all means check out w2aew's videos.https://www.youtube.com/@w2aewIn the end, you need to carefully define 'learn'. You can get a lot of knowledge from things like the Arduino Starter Kit (or step up to the Raspberry Pi Starter Kit).I don't know anything about MIT's OpenCourseWarehttps://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-01sc-introduction-to-electrical-engineering-and-computer-science-i-spring-2011/

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 12:42:05 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 amSince you are interested in PC repair I would watch some videos from the Adrian's Digital Basement youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/@adriansdigitalbasementEven though the hardware he fixes are older computing equipment (i.e. from the last century) the videos will give you a good idea of how one goes about figuring out what's not working in a primarily digital circuit.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 11:45:38 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:48:30 pmRefer to my earlier post.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2025, 06:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:48:30 pm1. Obtain and studiously read (and re-read, , and read again, until all the basics have sunk in) "the bible": The Art of Electronics, Horowitz and Hill. Since you're not studying for a formal qualification, and you won't be working as an EE, it's ok to bail out of the more complicated maths and formula derivations. But you really should aim to properly understand all of the qualitative aspects of passive components, transistors, diodes etc. and the basics of circuit analysis.2. Use some of the very good 'fundamentals' videos that are available on YT to help you with the above, including those from Dave and Alan (w2aew). Plenty of material from these gentlemen on the basics of test equipment use too, including oscilloscopes3. Get some basic test gear and do hands on exercises, based on your book learning. Actually build (breadboard) fundamental building blocks as they come up; transistors as switches, as amplifiers, op-amp action, RC filters etc. etc. Scope them, break them, modify them.4. Expect it to take months and years, rather than weeks, for you to really get a handle on things.

author: live2fish88
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 01:33:44 am
content: Any breadboard kit recommendations?

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 03:06:28 am
content: For learning electronics there are many possible youtube channels, but I'll recommend this one:https://www.youtube.com/@adannerHere is the recommended viewing order:Recommended Playlist Viewing Order:1. Circuits For Beginners [FULL CLASS]2. Electrical Properties of Materials/Semiconductors for Beginners [FULL CLASS]3. AC & Switching Circuits [FULL CLASS]4. Motors [HANDS-ON SERIES]5. Electricity Distribution [FULL CLASS]6(a). Analog Electronics [FULL CLASS]6(b). Passive Filters6(c). Amplifiers and Op-Amps6(d). Active Filters6(e). Transistors6(f). Voltage Regulators6(g). Feedback in Circuits6(h). Oscillators7. Ising Computers [GRADUATE SERIES]

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 10:24:36 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 04, 2025, 01:33:44 amNE666's points are good, but I'll add two caveats.While TAoEissuperb, it is for "continuers" rather than "beginners". Together with the companion TAoE X-Chapters, it is aninvaluableresource for understanding reasons ways they don't work as you would like, and how to increase the chances they will work as desired.I don't personally have a recommendation for a modern book for beginners, since I haven't read any."to properly understand all of the qualitative aspects of passive components" is correct and necessary, and in that context you will come to realise that a simple wire is a passive component and so are PCBs and breadboards. Solderless breadboard constructions can highlight that. For a quick and biassed introduction, have a look at the simple "two component" circuit discussed inhttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2024/03/16/practical-traps-with-a-one-transistor-audio-amplifier-solderless-breadboards-and-oscilloscopes/Seriously consider learning to solder sooner rather than later, and choose the relevant selection of techniques from mentioned inhttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2020/07/22/prototyping-circuits-easy-cheap-fast-reliable-techniques/particularly techniques mentioned towards the end.So, have funsafely, and accept that you will make mistakes. I'm still doing that after over half a century.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 10:30:07 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 11:02:00 amFor learning how to use scopes, there's a lot of good advice in another thread started by someone in your position:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/msg3100087/#msg3100087

author: Aldo22
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 01:04:49 pm
content: To try out the theory, something like this can be quite useful:http://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.htmlThere are also oscilloscopes in circuitjs.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 04:47:49 pm
content: OP:A lot of the suggested scopes and resources here are great for general electronics, but as you claim to be a "hands-on learner" you may also want to start looking at automotive signals right away as you learn. Just figuring out how to connect the scope, get it triggered and adjusted so that you have a clear waveform displayed takes some practice. You can start with a super-cheap handheld if you like. Specs like bandwidth, sample rate and memory are all "more is better" but you can get by with remarkably little in most automotive testing. This would do just fine for a starter:https://www.temu.com/ul/kuiper/un9.html?subj=goods-un&_bg_fs=1&_p_jump_id=894&_x_vst_scene=adg&goods_id=601099656797545&adg_ctx=f-7a8811a7I would also strongly suggest that you join iATN if you aren't a member already. You'll need a premium subscription to use their waveform library, but IMO it is well worth it.https://www.iatn.net/

author: osmax_br
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 09:05:26 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on February 01, 2025, 03:58:30 pmI really really like this sentence, and I do agree with that.(Med student here), while being at my first year in med college, I was astonished at how doctors are able to read X-rays and MRIs, let alone know that there is something wrong there. It always seemed the same, a brain with a tumor and a brain without one on MRI images seemed the same to me, with no difference between them.So I asked our professor, and he replied with the same reply above: if you know how a healthy brain or bone looks like, you will be able to spot the bad one. And that’s why we medical students spend years on studying anatomy textbooks.Now the same logic applies to electronics. The only way to know a faulty signal is to know how a good signal looks. However, you don’t need to spend years learning that, since it’s not a big problem to burn some electronics while learning (but you can’t kill someone while learning in medical school).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2025, 09:12:01 pm
content: Quote from: osmax_br on February 04, 2025, 09:05:26 pmTrue, but just like MRIs you have to learn what a "good" image or signal looks likewith the measurement artifacts and distortion included.This is often much different than a novice might expect just going by the basic theory of how the circuit is supposed to be operating.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 04:35:52 am
content: Art of Electronics and the supplemental lab manual are college textbooks and a new set can run $200 easily. I picked up a set of the 2nd edition in perfect shape for under $50 at an online used book dealer. A notch down, but probably a little easier to follow is Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisico, again at a used book dealer at a quarter of the price for one edition older. The basics haven’t changed enough to worry about at your current level.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 05:46:30 am
content: I would suggest to start learning DMM.When you figure out how to measure voltage, you can go further and learn how to do the same with oscilloscope.

author: Sorama
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2025, 08:04:13 am
content: Quote from: live2fish88 on February 01, 2025, 01:47:08 pmLet’s start by using the proper abbreviations like MHz or Hz