How likely is it that cheap Chinese clone fuses don't work correctly? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: LordHexahedron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2016, 01:53:24 am
content: I'm currently repairing an older video game console, in the past I've been lucky and had either other broken hardware around to salvage components from or been lucky and managed to find some for sale.The repair is simple enough - just an SMD fuse.but nowadays I can only source two things.Cheap Chinese clones of the CCP2E15 fuses, they're about 8x cheaper and can be bought in quantities as small as 10 (this comes to about $8 with shipping, or about $0.8-1/fuse when normalized, hell I could buy 100 and still be under $15, which gives a lovely normalized price of 20 cents a fuse!)or original KOA CCP2E15 fuses, but I'm not going to spend $800+shipping on 2000 fuses (MOQ) when I only need one, sure it's cheap per fuse but that's a whole lotta fuses.So my main question is really, how likely is it that such a simple component is likely to fail (if I buy 10 I'd test a couple by applying 1.5A to them and seeing if they break as they should) - even if it's a Chinese knockoff?Some people bodge it and solder a through hole fuse to it, I don't roll that way.an off-brand SMD fuse is still more professional than a salvaged surface mount fuse (or even a new surface mount fuse), esp. since it has to be non-exploding which the knockoff also claims to be.Arguably I'd sooner pick a reputable brand 1210 format SMD fuse that meets the following criteria:non exploding.breaks at 1.5Afast breaking. (the data for the CCP2E15 says it'll fuse in less than 1 second)here's the relevant data for the CCP2E15http://www.koaspeer.com/products/circuit-protection/fuses/ccp/the only place I could find where I could actually buy it was ordering it from a Japanese seller with a MOQ of 2k (as stated)I couldn't figure out how to order from koaspeer.com directly, well I found a sample order form but it requires me having a company and in any case I'd have to lie to get samples as I'm neither prototyping or evaluating.And I don't roll that way either.So really, there are three main questions in this case.How likely is the chinese knockoff to fail in a dangerous way.Where can you source parts like this in more manageable quantities? (google didn't help, couldn't find it on ebay and only found the knockoff brand on ali express)What would some suitable replacement parts be that have similar characteristics, or if no specific part comes to mind - is there some online tool that can be used to find parts matching these criteria?

author: mmagin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 09, 2016, 04:29:44 am
content: There are a lot of common parts that are roughly that spec.How about Bel Fuse C1F 750 (Digikey 507-1877-1-ND)?

author: LordHexahedron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 07:17:29 am
content: Sorry for the delay - anyway, to topic:the CCP series fuses are coded by either 2E or 2B, 2B is 1206 - 2E [which is the format I need] is 1210, I could probably jury rig it in but I'd rather not.

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 09:19:19 am
content: You asking this question is answer to its own..

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 09:52:51 am
content: You dont buy fuse without TÜV, RU and other approvals.Also you dont replace your seatbelt with "2016 Hot sale 1Pcs Universal Car Seat Belt Buckle Extender Extension Seatbelt Safe Clip Interior Accessories sells like hot coocies".This should be told only once, after that let natural selection do its thing.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 10:56:31 am
content: If option A is adapt a trustworthy brand of fuse to fit and option B is fit a dodgy unknown one that looks the same, I regard B as the bodge and A as the professional repair.

author: MrSlack
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 12:08:26 pm
content: Cheap Chinese fuses are probably some of this with a label around it:

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 12:27:18 pm
content: Buy 10 or 100 cheap fuses and test a few of them. Then you have an answer.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 12:56:35 pm
content: Quote from: LordHexahedron on April 19, 2016, 07:17:29 amBetween 1206 and 1210 is a small difference in width, a 1206 part soldered in a 1210 pad will be easier to solder with more lateral space in each pad, so no need to jury rig anything.

author: FlyingHacker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2016, 10:56:46 pm
content: They do look tempting... However... Since a fuse is a safety device, either for you, or your circuit, I would not skimp on it.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 02:04:15 am
content: Quote from: Kalvin on April 19, 2016, 12:27:18 pmHiHaving run into both defective fuses and defective circuit breakers, they are not as easy to fully test as you might think. Hold at this current (over temperature) and open at that current (over temperature) is fairly easy to test. Grab a test chamber, a power supply, a meter, and a bunch of fuses. Spend some quality time taking data. They can be temperature sensitive in funny ways so don't guess about which tests you can skip.Things like "will they open under the correct (massive) spike?" turn out to be a bit more difficult to test. In some very real situations, it's the interruption of a big spike that you are counting on....Testing that stuff gets you out of the normal "stuff already on my bench" category of gear. A failure can be a bit "exciting" or it can be pretty simple (breaker is welded shut).When a 1KA breaker "forgets to do it's thing" on a 400V circuit ... things get really interesting really fast, all along that 200' long cable. You quickly note that the breaker was the cheapest part of what now needs to be replaced / repaired / re-run / extinguished / hauled away.Bob

author: LordHexahedron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 02:51:34 am
content: fair enough, I figured I shouldn't trust the chinese CCP2E15's (although they're 12V 1A fuses so the worst that'll happen is that it burns out the vibration motor in the controller if it fails) - as for the 1206, I've never compared them side to side. I didn't know that it was only a width difference, I figured there'd be a length issue as well (and in that case I suppose it'll work just fine).

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 11:35:55 am
content: Quote from: LordHexahedron on April 20, 2016, 02:51:34 amHiThere *is* a difference between a mains fuse and some odd part down in the guts of a circuit board somewhere. It's rare to see a part in a piece of consumer electronics that isn't absolutely needed. They tend to get cost reduced out on the assumption that replacing the whole unit (on 0.01%) under warranty is cheaper than the fuse (or whatever).Bob

author: LordHexahedron
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 11:12:53 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on April 20, 2016, 11:35:55 amHello Bob.There is indeed a huge difference, however I wager this fuse is definitely needed since it's the only one to commonly break and it's the only one that wasn't cut in any revision (all the way from SCPH-100x up to SCPH-900x (well, there may be some odd intermediary model I haven't worked on, but I doubt they'd remove a fuse and then add it back in) - this would seem to imply that having a fuse there is probably a good idea, and either way I'm not about to bodge it with a bridge).But there were definitely other cost reductions through the different models.Nowadays it doesn't matter anyway, no warranty on 22 year old hardware - fix it or replace it.

author: BMack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 05:45:17 am
content: There are plenty of things you can go cheap on and do fine with in this world...fuses are not one of them. Harbor Freight(discount tool company in the US) sells a couple of fuse sets, one of which was recalled. I have seen the fuses after the recall(so these should be fine) tested and take 4+ times the current before they blew.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2016, 03:05:05 pm
content: Extremely likely, to the point of "don't want to find out the hard way"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/counterfeit-chinese-fuses/

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2016, 10:59:09 pm
content: Quote from: LordHexahedron on April 20, 2016, 02:51:34 amThe 1206 literally means 0.12" x 0.06", or if you prefer 120 thou by 60 thou. So the 1210 is the same length but 20 thou wider. This scheme works for all inch sized parts such as 0805, 0603, 0402. Watch out for metric sizes that look similar to imperial sizes e.g. an imperial 0201 is a metric 0603. Metric sizing is in 0.1 mm steps. Imperial sizing are used almost universally even in nominally metric countries (e.g. UK, Aus).