Speed control on a Suzuki motorcycle set at 186 mph - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 05:33:33 am
content: Seems like the speed control on this bike is set at 299 km/hr ( 186 mph). What type of circuitry could do this? I believe this is a Suzuki (from the comments). Is this common on high speed bikes?Edit: I assume somehow the RPM is recorded and compared with the gear and tire size. I am curious how this info is used to control the speed. I believe in the old days a governor would spin and control the fuel.As a side question - are Europeans nuts ?Edit: Part 2https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/speed-control-on-a-suzuki-motorcycle-set-at-186-mph/msg753547/#msg753547Spoiler alert: The rider does not die in the video.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:38:29 am
content: Neh, idiots like that can be found all over the world. This one is particularly foolish doing something like this in busy traffic. But hey, he (assuming it's a he) might already be dead.Judging by the colours of the road signs, this isn't even in Germany where 35% of the highways have no speed limit.I've heard of several cases of the police tracking down the people posting this kind of vids on youtube. Usually, they're not amused.My guess is that the engine management has a rev limiter and the guy is going flat out.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:46:57 am
content: Absolute moron. In Australia, we call motorcycle riders like that "Temporary Australians". I couldn't care less if an idiot puts themselves at risk by deliberately doing something stupid, but to put other people at risk really annoys me.

author: Gixy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 07:33:08 am
content: It is in Sweden. Speed control is done by cutting ignition at a given speed. This can be hacked...

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 08:18:20 am
content: many cars in Germany have this feature (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, but not Porsche) - they are limited to 250 km/h. This can be changed easily by a car tuning company. A former boss of mine bought an Audi RS6, and had this limited removed immediately by an "official" car tuner (for not loosing the warranty). More power, no speed limit, and the TV operates while driving.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 08:29:37 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 13, 2015, 05:33:33 amMultiple solutions exist, with their own drawbacks. The important details are: not damaging anything and stayingstable when hanging onto that limit.Cutting fuel only can make the mixture lean, (intermittent good/nothing) and you know what that does.Cutting ignition only can make the mixture rich and cause unburned fuel to come together in collectors, you know what that can do.For stability, ignition is partly cut before that limit, and fuel according to that.Best solution is an electic throttle valve. Completely electric so it is just some extra soft feedback, or cable/elec combined together with a spring, like the old cruise controls but mounted the other way around.Quote from: ez24 on September 13, 2015, 05:33:33 amThe last 10 to 20 years, ABS signal is used for that.Quote from: ez24 on September 13, 2015, 05:33:33 amYou are talking about RPM controllers here and not about velocity?Limiting RPM in racecars, and pushing RPM under load on tractors, bobcats, mowers.Exist in mechanical governors but also ignition HV rotorheads with integrated cutoff.

author: FrankenPC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 08:33:52 am
content: I had a 750 Katana from around the 1993 era that had a cut ignition system at 165 Mph. It seemed to me that was a safety measure to save the engine not the rider. You are reaching max gearing RPM.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 08:44:51 am
content: Older bikes ( and older VW GTI) had a set of extra pins on the advance mechanism which would operate a lever at max RPM to keep the points open. Most were "modified" to remove the pin and lever, so you could rev till something broke. With electronic ignition they added a simple rev switch which did the same. Solution was to drill the potted module at a specified location to cut the link wire. More modern systems simply start retarding timing as you approach max RPM, cutting power without actually shutting off the ignition.More modern ones also include a speed limiter that will also cut power as you approach the limit, or with drive by wire systems they simply back off the throttle irrespective of how hard you have pressed the sending pedal. Those can be adjusted ( look in the owners manual) to operate at below the factory setting, though the dealership diagnosis computer can also be used to change the hard limit up or down, though doing so in many cases will require you to sign an affirmation ( held by the dealer and in the dealer network computer system) that you acknowledge that you have voluntarily waived the drivetrain warranty by changing it up from the typical 180kph to higher or disabled.Your modern Mercedes E class, Sl and SLK ( other than the AMG and G) is set to 180, and the AMG will be set to higher by default. They will go to 240kph or higher out of the factory though, though that really is best reserved for a controlled race track and controlled conditions. Doing that on a regular road with other slow traffic, pedestrians, potholes, tree branches and other hazards is just a recipe for a closed coffin funeral.You may be able to go fast, but can you stop as fast? 300kW from the engine but the brakes cannot absorb that in 1s.

author: electr_peter
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 09:07:07 am
content: I am always amazed by the stupidity of such motorcycle/car drivers.In my opinion they do risk a lot and the final result is simply worthless/very poor. All they can brag is that overtake a regular bus or car going at road speed limit and the they beat some traffic. So what? Is that it? So much effort just for this? Can they do something more comprehensive than holding accelerator wide open?In my eyes,that is a definition of 100% loser.And they do not live for long as well...

author: wreeve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 09:58:29 am
content: Fly-by-wire throttle makes it easy; my 2000 year BM has it; the "throttle" pedal then becomes a torque request pedal! As already mentioned the speed cut-off is achieved by throttle control on those systems. The ECU firmware needed to know the tire diameter to determine the high speed cut-off. In the code it was defined as number of ABS pulses per km (or similar units); the maps could then be easily converted to real-world units for humans to understand! This did result in quite a large number of different firmware revisions for the same car/engine but different tyre options combo!From memory in the BM there are three speed points listed the first would ease off the throttle; the 2nd would really ease off and the 3rd you couldn't drive past!

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 11:45:43 am
content: Some cars limit the top speed by not allowing an upshift above certain speeds/throttle openings. For example, the BTR 4 speed automatic controller as fitted to Australian-made Ford Falcons from 1989 to 1991 will not allow a change into 4th at wide open throttle. So the top speed is 5000rpm or 180km/h.Later versions had a speed limiter too, but it was done because the aluminium tailshafts apparently pretzel at high speeds.My rev limit is a fuel cut, it's pretty savage.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 11:51:00 am
content: What about tricking the sensor into thinking the speed is lower?

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 11:57:19 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on September 13, 2015, 11:51:00 amNot hard to do, but the shift points would be then too low, making it a dog to drive. Not that I go that fast.

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 12:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on September 13, 2015, 06:46:57 amThis reminds me of an episode of Top Gear in which Jeremy Clarkson interviews Stephen Fry. In it Stephen Fry tells about when he went to see a cousin in New York who's a doctor and who sees him hand over his helmet and says: "Do you know what we call motorbike riders in the trauma department? ... Donors".Then he goes on to tell another story about someone needing a transplant lens but that there were no donor lenses available. "And he went to the window and said: "...but it's raining so it shouldn't be too long.", and he really meant it."

author: sdg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 01:48:59 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on September 13, 2015, 06:38:29 amInbusytraffic, that ?No way.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 03:57:51 pm
content: I got cured of wanting a motorbike at 16. guy in class got a DT50 for his birthday on the Wednesday, came to school with it Thursday and Friday. Monday not there. 2 weeks later he was dropped off back at school with 2 crutches, shorts , 10kg of stainless steel on the one leg and 2 spanners. the spanners were to unlock the 4 nuts every hour, turn them 1 hex face then relock them, as he had to grow that leg 5cm to match the other one. He had special dispensation to use the school lift, as he took 20 minutes otherwise to move up the whole flight of stairs from one class to the other.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 05:50:37 pm
content: At least he came back. A guy in my class got a Honda 50. My parents and I drove by the accident. Only found out a day or two later who it was.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 05:56:00 pm
content: Quote from: MiataMuc on September 13, 2015, 08:18:20 amsounds like a beginning of a Darwin award story(especially the TV part)

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:07:01 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on September 13, 2015, 05:56:00 pmI passed a guy one evening who was in his van, in the driving rain, on the freeway at 130kph, and watching an "adult" DVD on the screen. I recognised the video. Drove by very fast to keep out just in case he got "excited" or "engrossed" in the show and not the road.

author: Augustus
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:12:09 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on September 13, 2015, 05:56:00 pmShouldn't be allowed, it's way to dangerous. Could very well be distracting you from texting on your cellphone

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:40:36 pm
content: If I remember correctly, he used this feature in heavy traffic. I'm always amazed about people watching tv while driving. If I would try this, it would end in an immediate crash.But there have been accidents, especially with heavy trucks, due to "excitement" while driving here..

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 06:42:47 pm
content: I ride a motorcycle myself but nothing stupidly big: a Honda CBF500. I don't see the point in a stupidly powerful bike. I have my car licence too but never bothered with a car because I don't like driving.There are some idiotic motorcyclists around but some of the 4x4 drivers are worse, especially those who hesitate for too long and don't go when they should. At least on a bike one is more of a danger to themselves, than to everyone else.The last time I had an accident on the road was on a push bike. I waited behind some parked cars, until the other side of the road was clear to overtake but the car at the back wasn't parked but also waiting. I went round to overtake and they crashed into me. If the driver had gone before then the accident would've been avoided. It's often taking too long which causes accidents, just as much as driving too fast.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 10:40:04 pm
content: This is (in some circles) the famous Ghostrider from Sweden (Patrik Furstenhoff) riding on freeway E4 north from Stockholm to Uppsala. That used to be my way to work some 15+ years ago (but I only went some 10 miles). Somehow, my commute was a bit slower though... He is riding a turbocharged Suzuki Hayabusa (some 500 HP) so I think it's safe to say that any stock electronics was removed/replaced from the bike.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Rider_(motorcyclist)The police in Sweden is very different from here in the U.S. If one did the below in the U.S. then there would be 10 police cars, a couple of helicopters and, likely, news coverage...

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 13, 2015, 11:58:46 pm
content: I had a modified 1992 Yamaha FZR1000, AKA Exup 1000 in some countries. It would do just a tick over 300kph, but I didn't do it regularly. Going that speed will make your sphincter so tight you can crack walnuts! There was no rev limiter built into that one. I have modified ECUs for some bikes to get rid of the speed limit. Each one is different, and some are not possible. One I modified for a mini-B dirt track racer. Another was a Honda for a friend who has some whits about him. Speed will kill you long before you reach 186mph.BTW, I was never afraid riding at high speed on a clear highway. It was always the city that scared me. Actually that was what ended my motorcycle career. Some idiot decided to pull out of their lane when I was passing at 60kph. I avoided them and crashed into the sidewalk and totaled the bike. I injured a kidney when I slammed into the corner of the sidewalk at 4kph (estimated) and lost my perfectly maintained, brand new looking, monster bike.Now, living in Chile, I am 100% sure I have a greater chance of dying driving my Navara 4x4 than I ever did driving my motorbike in Canada. Thelowlevel of care and concern for their own mortality here is impressive.Edit: added "low"

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 01:28:23 am
content: QuoteDo you mean the lack of care ?Can I ask what city you live in. And why did you move there?Chile has some good immigration rules for US people (very rare)Do I remember that you are tutoring something?thanks

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 01:47:00 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 13, 2015, 05:33:33 amOn my Suzuki, they limit the high RPM in the ECM. On mine, the ECM has no idea about MPH. You can just reprogram it.

author: CaptCrash
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 02:26:16 am
content: I had a 2008 Suzuki Hayabusa, its limiting was at 308km/h in 6th (dash would not show above 299).At the time there was a swap in part available for the gear sensor that instead of counting to 6, only counted to 5.The bike then wouldn't limit allowing 326km/h on an otherwise unmodified bike.I didn't feel the need to implement the change be able to achieve an additional 18km/h that bike was fast enough without having to touch it.I have read from a number reasonable sources that the 299 limit on the dash of Japanese bikes is basically an "arms control measure", in that they don't show above 299km/h. I don't know if this is fact or urban law.But at the same time they publish max speeds quite happily above 300 in the press releases and manuals, so go figure.I can vouch for low speed city riding being much more dangerous that any high speed riding.I got taken out by a guy turning right on a red light as I was traveling straight ahead through an intersection.The bike was about 14 months old, bright orange, headlight permanently on at 9:45pm at night (dark). He claims he didn't see me.I got to fly through the air, then a trip in an ambulance.Luckily I only ended up with a broken leg (from the bulbar on the front of his ute), a heap of cracked bones in both feet and a lot of bruising. I got off very lightly.I was traveling at 40-50km/h he was doing 30-40km/h in a 50km/h zone.Police recorded the accident as being speed related, then later added dangerous driving and giving false evidence to the guy who hit me as he kept changing his story as to what happened.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 02:47:10 am
content: QuoteNow this makes sense that he was actually going faster than 299. It was the odd 299 that confused me. Seems we have a lot of bike riders here. My fastest experience was 100 mph on a Ducati 250But you would think that such an urban legend as Ghost Rider that he would have gotten the gauge to go over the limit.I wonder if he is still alive. The problem with being a living ghost is that it is the same as a dead ghost. IE no one will know that he is dead because he is a ghost. The last record on Wiki is 2012.

author: gyrfalcon16
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 02:53:43 am
content: Quote from: sdg on September 13, 2015, 01:48:59 pmThat's busy traffic for what they're trying to do. If it was actually "busy traffic" they would be dead, or going 5mph like everyone else. It's idiotic to do this during the day or when a lot of vehicles are on the road. Go out in the country or wait till 3am when the roads are pretty clear if you want to push it to the limit...Thankfully the moron is on a motorcycle and is pretty much endangering himself. One day they'll run across someone who needs a new bumber/paintjob that'll shift lanes suddenly. They'll collect the funds from any insurance, even if it's life insurance.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 03:24:49 am
content: at the end of the video Gary says ".. his ghost"My bet Patrick is the Ghost Ryder, a lot older than I would have thought

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 04:42:20 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on September 14, 2015, 01:28:23 amYes, that is what I meant and edited my post to be clearer.Quote from: ez24 on September 14, 2015, 01:28:23 amRather than go off topic, which I hate when people do it to threads, PM me and I can fill you in.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 05:02:42 am
content: Looks like his last video was done in 2012 and the name had " what the f**k" and I believe the following clip is from that movie.He is in a car and does he flip the car on its side like in movies? I cannot understand how he got past the police car. I said "what the f**k ? when I saw this:https://youtu.be/8E3oTV7zIqo?t=4597He is known to drive weird things and he is a stunt driver. Any ideas on what happened? I can just imagine what the Swedish police thought.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 09:17:31 am
content: Quote from: wagon on September 13, 2015, 11:57:19 amFlick a switch for when you're in top.