Rohde & Schwarz Oscilloscopes - Questions/Comments?  Let me know! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 02:38:03 am
content: Hi Folks,My name is Rich and I work for Rohde & Schwarz focused on Oscilloscopes in North America. I’m a longtime fan of EEVblog and frequent visitor. I figured there are more and more questions/comments coming up on our scopes so I thought I’d join and try to help out where I can.A little background on myself – I’ve been involved in T&M for almost 16 years now. Started at Agilent in the Oscilloscope and Logic Analyzer division in Colorado Springs right out of my BSEE. My last nine years or so there I spent focused on scopes, a few years focused on Infiniium scopes (including doing some of the planning for the Infiniium 9000-series) and then seven years or so as the product planner for the InfiniiVision X-Series. I left Agilent in 2014 to join R&S focused on scopes in North America.A couple (bunch of) comments:1. I’m doing this in my spare time, so please patient if I’m slow to answer. I typically scan the forum once or twice a day, but can’t promise I’ll be able to respond instantly.2. I’m very experienced with a wide variety of scopes and while I can give you insights on almost any scope from R&S, Keysight or even Tek/LeCroy (I’ve been a part of many teardowns on those and competitive deep dives and actually own many of those scopes), I may not always be able to answer the questions out of respect for my previous employer (e.g. don’t ask me why a decision was made when the InfiniiVision X-Series scopes were being designed, because while I could answer it, I’m not going to).3. For R&S, I’m 100% focused on the US and Canada, so I may not be able to help with questions/issues in other regions, but I frequently talk with all the major regions and will do my best to make sure you are well taken care of if you are in one of those regions.4. I’m extremely close with Product Managers within the division, and our R&S Scope Planners, one of which came from Tektronix and another that is a former coworker from Keysight (InfiniiVision planner and S-Series planner). So please feel free to give feedback and I’ll make sure it makes it to the right person.5. Since I've been with R&S for roughly 2.5 years, I don't have all the background on the HMO scopes, but feel free to ask questions if you have them and I'll do my best to find the answers.6. Yes, I clearly know Daniel from Keysight. Great guy. I can beat him at basketball, but he’s a better mountain biker than I am.Looking forward to taking a more active role on the forum.-Rich

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 02:45:53 am
content: Welcome! I hope we can write some sense into R&S because so far R&S scopes don't seem to be very popular (they very rarely turn up on Ebay and I have not spotted a single one in the wild yet).

author: neil t
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 02:46:26 am
content: welcome to the blog.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 02:51:13 am
content: Welcome aboard Rich, the more the merrier.Do put the R&S website link up or in your profile signature.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 03:09:06 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 13, 2017, 02:45:53 amThanks! And I certainly understand what you are saying. I think we are still pretty young and not very well known outside of Europe, but there are two things about R&S that I've learned in my 2.5 years here:1. We're very customer focused. We certainly aren't perfect, but a benefit of being privately held is we can err on the side of our customers.2. We are in things for the long run.So stay tuned - hopefully you'll see more and more of us because we are giving our customers something they want/need.-Rich

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 03:13:53 am
content: Thanks for joining RickR&S stock just went up a few points.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 03:14:25 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 13, 2017, 02:51:13 amThanks and I appreciate the suggestion - I added the link to my sig.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 03:15:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 13, 2017, 03:13:53 amThanks - Looking forward to helping where I can.-Rich

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 04:50:59 am
content: Hi Rich,Was wondering if there was any info beyond the "two minutes to decide" clip about the RTH1004 hand-held scope. It seems like a nice product, but I couldn't find a review video (unlike say Keysight's DSO series). What I was interested in is how responsive the scope user interface is. Hand-held scopes in general need to make some compromises on this front (eg: buttons instead of knobs), I wanted to know what I was getting in to. Another question was about the capacitive touch screen and how it responds to small amounts of water (for example a light mist or condensation).Thanks.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 01:42:51 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on March 13, 2017, 04:50:59 amAbsolutely - I'll put together a quick video for you today to show the responsiveness. And wrt the capacitive touchscreen - it actually works quite well, even with a little water on the display - I'll post up a video of that too. But should you have any issues, you can always turn it off and use the rotary wheel and buttons to drive it all (which I'll show in the first video). I'll start a separate thread on this topic if that's ok.-Rich

author: salamander123
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 04:56:35 pm
content: Hello,thanks for your nice offer. Can you please comment on the new RTO hardware option B6. Especially I would be interested if te module will be available for the "old" RTO1000 or only the RTO2000.

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:06:37 pm
content: I just got a brand new HM01202 with the LA pod.. its awesome.. except maybe you can explain why it takes a month to get a code to enable the logic decode???(that was another persons experience, me I'm still waiting over a week)apparently only 1 person can generate a code, and they only work one day every other month it would seem.never would have thought it so hard to get a damn code.maybe I was silly to order the code when I ordered my scope.either way you slice it, its ridiculous support by R&S for this for something that should be instant.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:20:24 pm
content: Want to get the brand out there? Here's a two-step plan:- give one to Dave- give a bunch of them to forum members.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:26:32 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on March 13, 2017, 04:50:59 amI just posted a quick video in another thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rs-rth1000-oscilloscope-front-panel-responsiveness-and-touchscreen/Hope this helps!-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:29:43 pm
content: Quote from: salamander123 on March 13, 2017, 04:56:35 pmSo that product isn't actually introduced yet, but since it will introduce on March 14th (which it's March 14th in other parts of the world!) I feel OK answering. And unfortunately the answer is no, it won't work on the RTO1000. I'm not sure of the exact reasons, but it is only compatible with the RTO2000 and RTE1000.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:32:20 pm
content: Quote from: BloodyCactus on March 13, 2017, 05:06:37 pmSorry to hear about the troubles. Although we bought Hameg quite some time ago, not all their products use the same systems as other (newer) R&S scopes. So I'm guessing that is the problem. But regardless, I agree, it is ridiculous to take that long. Do you mind PM'ing me your info (who you bought it from, your order number, etc) and I'll see if I can escalate it for you.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 05:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on March 13, 2017, 05:20:24 pmI like your thinking!-Rich

author: salamander123
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 06:01:30 pm
content: Hey Rich,thanks for clarification. Maybe the information on the homepage can be corrected, since it states (at least in the german version) that every RTO can be upgraded (https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/de/produkt/rtob6-produkt-startseite_63493-401856.html).I would have liked to buy the generation option, especially because of the 8 digital channels you pypically do not get with an standalone function generator... but unfortunately own an RTO1000.best regards

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 06:05:31 pm
content: Quote from: salamander123 on March 13, 2017, 06:01:30 pmI'll have them update it - thanks for sending this on.-Rich

author: Keysight DanielBogdanoff
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:25:51 pm
content: FWIW (employers aside), I've worked with Rich and he's a great guy.Rich, hope to see you on the bike trail soon!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: Flinstone on March 13, 2017, 07:33:09 pmThanks Flintstone - I appreciate the kind words. I won't be at Embedded World, but definitely stop in and say hi to the team if you'll be there.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 08:39:49 pm
content: Quote from: Keysight_DanielBogdanoff on March 13, 2017, 08:25:51 pmThanks Daniel-Rich

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 10:52:11 pm
content: I do like the new ScopeRiders - but I do not like the priceespecially with options. I was ready to kick my Fluke 190-202 to the kerb and upgrade - but that was simply a non-starter price wise. So I guess I have to go on the boats without CAN bus debugging in the scope and still use a pocket decoder and laptop.But I did enjoy the R&S EMC conference/session in UK last month - great people there educating especially Mo from Wurth! He knows his RF stuff and is an educator extreme! Food could have been better though *G*

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2017, 11:50:48 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on March 13, 2017, 10:52:11 pmHi Kaz911 - I certainly understand. Stay tuned as we sometimes run promotions to help bring down the cost of the options (e.g. the History Mode is free right now).And I'm happy to hear the EMC conference was good! I, personally, think that is one of the big benefits of a company like R&S (or Keysight, Tek, LeCroy, etc) - we are often able to help provide some expert insights on interesting topics.-Rich

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 03:56:27 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 13, 2017, 11:50:48 pmOn the RTH1000 series too?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:06:43 am
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on March 14, 2017, 03:56:27 amYes - you'll want to order one that is bundled with it in for free (ends in MEM). If you tell me the bandwidth and channel count you are looking at I can tell you the exact one to order.-Rich

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:28:53 am
content: I was looking for the four channel, 200 MHz version, that would be the RTH-04MEM? Also, would this apply if one also gets an educational discount? The terms at Test Equity indicate that the 'offer cannot be used in combination with any other offer or discount scheme'.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 01:28:04 pm
content: Quote from: salamander123 on March 13, 2017, 06:01:30 pmHi Salamander123 - I got confirmation this morning they will update that page to be more clear. Sorry for the confusion.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 01:30:23 pm
content: Quote from: radar_macgyver on March 14, 2017, 04:28:53 amHi radar_macgyver - sorry for the slow response - ended up falling asleep last night. You'd want to order the RTH-24MEM. The RTH-04MEM is a 60MHz, 4ch.And unfortunately the education discount can't be combined-Rich

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 02:02:16 pm
content: Welcome Rich,Although not scope related i'm a big fan of the HMC stuff, look forward to more products in that series.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 02:25:28 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on March 14, 2017, 02:02:16 pmThanks! The HMC multi-meters are very nice - I had one at my desk for a bit before I had to turn it back in for demoAnd although they aren't scopes related, we did introduce several other very nice value products today as well:FPC1000 - entry level spectrum analyzer:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/news-press/press-room/press-releases-detailpages/rohde-schwarz-brings-its-rf-expertise-to-the-entry-class-with-the-new-r-s-fpc1000-spectrum-analyzer-press_releases_detailpage_229356-403264.htmlNGE100 - new power supply (super nice - looks like the press release isn't up on it quite yet).-Rich

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:03:01 pm
content: I'm really looking foward the RTB2000 series... Speaking of which: can their BW be fully upgraded from the base model? Let's say, If I'm going to buy a 70Mhz scope, can I upgrade to 300Mhz later?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 04:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: R005T3r on March 14, 2017, 04:03:01 pmThanks! And yes - it is fully upgradeable via key codes. No need to return to a service center.-Rich

author: djnz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:24:44 pm
content: NGE103 3Ax32Vx3ch power supply for EUR850 with a typical ripple spec of 20mVpp? Doesn't seem to add up. Is that a typo in the datasheet? 2mVpp ripple? Or a typo in the price?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 05:29:38 pm
content: Quote from: djnz on March 14, 2017, 05:24:44 pmNot sure - like I mentioned, I'm only Scope focused. But I'll see if I can find out for you.-Rich

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 06:53:15 pm
content: Any idea how R&S would respond to Dave or someone else publishing hacking related content regarding these new scopes like he did the Keysight one?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 07:02:33 pm
content: Quote from: cheeseit on March 14, 2017, 06:53:15 pmI honestly can't answer that - it isn't something I'd be involved in.But I can tell you R&S has huge amounts of respect for Dave and this forum and in general wants to be very supportive of you all. I can also tell you I did NOT join to "spy" and look for hacking (someone else mentioned it in another thread where that same question came up). From my perspective for the hobbyist community, it's a non-issue (but I can't speak for every person within R&S). If it were a corporation I might have a different opinion.-Rich

author: cheeseit
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 07:31:03 pm
content: I figured that something like that would be handled by others, if at all, like lawyers or MBA's. I must have missed your reply in the other thread. I also see you joining and answering all kinds of questions, and quickly too, as something very positive and certainly did not intend to imply anything nefarious in you being here.I asked this since Dave and others have demo units on the way so it might happen, and because I wish I could afford one myself but scope plus upgrades is unfortunately beyond my current hobbyist budget so 'alternative' upgrades would be my only hope.Thanks.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2017, 07:56:01 pm
content: Quote from: cheeseit on March 14, 2017, 07:31:03 pmYou didn't miss my reply - I actually didn't respond in the other thread because it wasn't asked of me directly and I didn't want to sound defensive.And thanks for the kind words - I hope I can provide some help on our scopes and be a valuable contributor here.-Rich

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 03:21:01 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 14, 2017, 01:30:23 pmBummer - looks like I might have to shell out a few more bucks.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 03:33:01 am
content: Quote from: cheeseit on March 14, 2017, 06:53:15 pmSomeone asked this in another thread.R&S are theonlymanufacturer to have ever asked to have hacking information removed from this forum, take that as you will.Of course that should only encourage people hacking their products

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 03:40:48 am
content: Rich,Welcome to the forum. I've been saving funds for a Keysight DSOX2024A that's on sale locally for a very good price but the new R&S scopes (with the special launch offers) may have put paid to that idea if I can find the extra cash...One questions - from the data sheet:"in line with EN 55011 class A, operation in residential, commercial and business areas or in small-size companies is not covered; therefore the instrument may not be operated in residential, commercial and business areas or in small-size companies unless additional measures are taken to ensure that EN 55011 class B is complied with"Can you explain what this means in the real world? (I am not up to speed with these codes).

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 03:51:58 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on March 15, 2017, 03:40:48 amHi ruairi - thanks for the welcome. WRT your question - I'm not sure. I'll find out and let you know ASAP.-Rich

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 07:54:12 am
content: Quote from: ruairi on March 15, 2017, 03:40:48 amIn short it means it is a noisy buggerthat might give interference in other radio signals - like FM radio etc. But if it will be a real world problem I do not know. Maybe do not put your radio on top of it?

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 08:06:48 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 14, 2017, 07:02:33 pmFortunately for T&M manufacturers, a hacked measurement instrument is, by definition, not certified by the manufacturer. So any measurement taken with it can be regarded as useless whenever there is any legal aspect to it.It's easy to picture this issue: A manufacturer sells a large batch of defective equipment and it causes some accidents. The manufacturer blames their hacked T&M equipment. And, of course, the T&M equipment manufacturer retaliates: "What? Were you measuring 100 MHz signals with an instrument *specified* for 70 MHz? Good luck in court!".What percentage of the "hackable" instruments sold have actually been hacked?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2017, 11:47:18 pm
content: Tequipment and Testequity are listing a "launch offer" on the RTB2004 at $2080 for 300Mhz, MSO and all options, List value over $6kSeems too good to be true - is there a catch ? Extremely limited stock ? Is this going to be via any other dealers ?https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45684#tabgrouphttp://www.tequipment.net/Rohde-&-Schwarz/RTB2K-COM4/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/?v=0

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 12:17:27 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on March 15, 2017, 11:47:18 pmNot too good to be true. All US and Canada partners can offer this deal. It is specific to US and Canada (sorry folks - other regions will have their own specials). It is a screaming deal - we wanted to give early adopters a fantastic deal. We believe the scope is tops in its class, but the proof is in the pudding as they say, and we want a number of folks to get them in their hands early - we think they'll be pleased and will help build awareness around the scopes.All our partners that stock should have them on their shelf (or will shortly).And the quantity is limited (first come first served!).-RichEdit: Deleted the quantity reference about it being "fairly large" - don't want to create misunderstanding that there are tons of launch edition units.

author: irakandjii
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 04:48:20 am
content: Just wondering about a few use cases on the RBT2004?(Modification: After I wrote this I discovered the RTM documentation for "R&S RTM-K1" and R&S - K15. I read another sheet that implying that the functionally of these options are the same for the RTB, Is that the case? If so my question is answered:) )USE Case 1 - Long term serial decodingWith the memory upgrade of the RTB2004. If I set the scope to 10Ks per record, the manual says I can have 13107 records.If I am; a) using a serial trigger (Say a given address, or some pattern) and b) assume I can fit a query response in one record based upon an assumption of approx. 2000 digital bits per record, yielding about 200 bytes of data.1) Are the above assumptions reasonable?2) Is each record stored uniquely (tagged), in 10Ks chunks? Is the serial decode information retained, or is it recalculated each time.3) Assuming this is acting like segmented memory. How much time can elapse between triggered events? Basically, I want to know how long can I wait for bad stuff to happen? I my case, want to set up and then wander over to the remote sensors etc and, stuff them in crushed dry ice, wiggle wiggle (reference for our aussie friend) them like crazy and generally try to simulate nasty conditions that would cause the noise and communication failures. It sounds as if with 13k records I could go a very long elapsed time (well beyond my expectation, but there again ... expect the unexpected)I answered this by readinghttps://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/RTB-K15_RTM-K15_Fast_ac_en_3607-1220-92_v0200.pdf4) In the manual I see no mention of tabular representation of the decode. Is that available?5) I assumed from my reading that I can save the 160 Ms history to a file for storage. If so could tests like the one above be saved for future analysis? I am particularly concerned about how decodes are replicated.Use case 2 The function generator bit pattern capability.Can the scope be setup and as a Master in an SPI Master/Slave configuration to generate queries?If so what are the limitations?I will continue to read through the remote control commands some more but I have a sense that the art of the possible might be very significant here.Thanks in advancePS Wife and daughter think I am absolutely crazy reading oscilloscope manuals...

author: Relaxe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 01:09:55 pm
content: Hello Rich,Can you tell us the complete list of distributors having the early bird promo in Canada/USA ? I only found a couple located in the USA (and I'm in Canada).Thanks!PS: Can't wait to see some reviews/first impressions.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:06:02 pm
content: Quote from: Relaxe on March 16, 2017, 01:09:55 pmHere is the list:Canada:ElectroRent (non stocking)TestForceUSA:AlliedContinental ResourcesElectroRent (non stocking)MicroLeaseNewarkTechni-ToolTEquipmentTest Equity-Rich

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:15:01 pm
content: Just a friendly suggestion, please don't make any more videos like:Sadly where I'm at no test scopes are available and I have to rely heavily on reviews and what I can find on the net. Videos of 3D models are an instant elimination as far as I'm concerned, the video should contain a scope + engineer. You have a nice application series for mostly the RTO, so please give some love to it's smaller sisters/brothers. It's nice that you're sending the new model to Dave and Mike, it seems like a great deal so I'm waiting for the reviews enthusiastically.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on March 16, 2017, 02:15:01 pmVery good feedback - I'll pass it on to our marketing teams.-Rich

author: irakandjii
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:23:17 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 16, 2017, 02:06:02 pmI have confirmed the deal is applicable to Canada through Testforce, just wish the dang exchange rate with the US would drop.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:29:07 pm
content: I know you said you mainly dealt with the US, but can you see if you can find out the situation re. the launch deal in Europe ( & elsewhere). I did email Jithu at R&S UK but not had a reply yetIn the UK, Farnell are listing the RTB2K-COM4 package , but at GBP4875 - it would be way cheaper to fly to the US & get one!I have a friend here in the UK who is currently trying to throw handfuls of twenty pound notes at his screen...

author: Relaxe
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 02:50:01 pm
content: Mike:Your friend could always google for a mail forwarding serviceThen, get Tequipment (or others) to ship to the forwarder.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 03:23:40 pm
content: Quote from: irakandjii on March 16, 2017, 04:48:20 amMy wife and daughter have looked at me the same way, especially when they open the garage and it is filled with oscilloscope boxes and my daughter can't get her bike out.With respect to your questions that are still open on Use Case 1:Q. Are the above assumptions reasonable?A. Yes.Q. Is each record stored uniquely (tagged), in 10Ks chunks? Is the serial decode information retained, or is it recalculated each time.A. Yes, each segment has a time stamp. I'm not sure on how the serial decode information is done - I can tell you if it isn't stored it is basically done in real-time. As I "play" through the segments the decode instantly updates. If you need more insights, let me know and I'll talk with the factory.Q. In the manual I see no mention of tabular representation of the decode. Is that available?A. Yes. Please note though that it is just for the segment decoded (or the data captured if not in segmented mode). It doesn't bring all the data from every segment in to a single table.Q. I assumed from my reading that I can save the 160 Ms history to a file for storage. If so could tests like the one above be saved for future analysis? I am particularly concerned about how decodes are replicated.A. Yes, it is a very large file. But it is just the data - the decode itself isn't saved off. You can save off the decode separately, but it will only be for the segment displayed (if you don't use segmented you can save off the decode for the entire acq memory that you have in one capture which could decode lots of packets but may not work for you if you have huge amounts of idol time in between).For use case 2, I haven't spent much time yet with the AWG, so I'll have to get back to you on it.-Rich

author: Gabri74
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 04:21:38 pm
content: Hi Rich, thanks for your time.Q: If I buy in USA and have it forwarded here in Europe/Italy by some means, will the warranty be still valid ?

author: salviador
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 04:36:15 pm
content: where can I buy from italy?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2017, 05:44:03 pm
content: Hi Folks - I'm not connected in enough to the other regions to be able to answer all the questions off the top of my head (and like I said in my intro, I'm only focused on US/Canada), but I'll do my best to find out answers for you all. Please be patient-Rich

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 09:31:12 am
content: Just had an answer from UK - the launch offer will NOT happen in Europe as none of the distributors wanted to do it. Presumably they didn't want to upset their other brands.Have asked about warranty position on imported units.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2017, 07:16:21 pm
content: Well then hopefully the 70MHz RTB2004 model can be hacked to full options. That would get close to the launch deal prisewise.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2017, 02:37:58 am
content: Was the new FPC1000 meant to replace the older HMS-X spec an?Seems to be missing tracking generator.Also what was the educational discount people mentioned earlier?When ever I asked other manuf in the past, they wanted to get staff contact.More a sales lead instead of an answer.

author: Jackob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2017, 08:16:04 am
content: Hi Rich - now when the older RTO1000 series scopes are discontinued I would suggest respectfully R&S to remember us exisiting RTO1000 customers and give a good offer for getting its SW options activated with a reasonable cost. This is what e.g. Keysight did when their DSO5000 series was discontinued (the scope I owned before RTO1004).RTO1000 series scopes are still extremely good and usable but the options are very expensive.Come on R&S...BR, Jackob

author: rfbroadband
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 04:15:17 am
content: well you can always dream. When R&S discontinued the RTO1000 model, you as a R&S customer are supposed to purchases the 2000 model and purchases all software options again. Software keycodes are not transferable.I have a fully loaded RTO1000, trust me...

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 02:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: Jackob on March 18, 2017, 08:16:04 amI second this. I have an RTO1024, which I both love and hate. The UI is powerful, but with a steep learning curve. Great math capabilities, great FFT, which I use, especially the math. I'm very happy with the actual waveforms and performance. I also got some very helpful technical support for a few tough measurements.But, it takes forever to boot up, and there are odd bugs in the interface that can be very annoying, beyond it just being challenging to learn. I worry about it being orphaned.And, I wanted to upgrade it to the RTO1044 because I have some need of 4 GHz BW, and this was a consideration when buying the scope. The price was outrageous. I would end up with still a used scope, but the quote for the upgrade was so high that I can buy a quality used 6 GHz scope with warranty and cal, and have a LOT of money left over, and two scopes. And, I fall on the side of 4 channels being barely enough, so sometimes I actually use two scopes. I guess I should have known as much, but when my employer bought the scope, I had to fight for the 2 GHz, and 4 was not in the cards at the time.\rant{I really hate buying scopes these days. I've been burned on Lecroy and Tek for different reasons, either bad design decisions that could not be fixed, charging big bucks for features that used to be free and are not complicated, bad UI bugs that made certain features unusable, or being forced to buy really expensive adapters that don't work all that well just to use existing probes.}JohnJohn

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 02:15:52 pm
content: Quote from: Jackob on March 18, 2017, 08:16:04 amHi Jackob - I definitely see your argument and as a customer I'd also love to have that for products I've bought that have been discontinued. I'll feed that info back, but I have a feeling it likely won't be implemented (at least not any time soon). Perhaps after the RTO1000 has been discontinued longer.If I get good news, I'll definitely come back and update everyone though.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 02:19:38 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on March 23, 2017, 02:14:19 pmHi John - thanks for the feedback. While we may not add new features to the RTO1000 (some things can't be done with it), we will of course continue to fix bugs. Please feel free to PM your bugs and I can make sure they are submitted.-Rich

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 03:19:09 pm
content: Hi Rich,Is the RTB compatible with the Hameg HO3508 logic probe? Got a hmo and probably getting a second scope soon so compatibility would be nice.

author: salamander123
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 03:28:14 pm
content: @JohnGRegarding boot performance. Just buy any 2.5'' sata ssd and clone the original harddrive. Btw. R+S can also supply a usb stick with an install image. Whould be nice, if they would put it online...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 04:08:25 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on March 23, 2017, 03:19:09 pmIt would also be good to know if the MSO function requires a license or just depends on the probe. One scenario would be if a lab had 2 scopes, so one probe set could be swapped between them, or even use one 8 bit probe on each.My unit does have an MSO option sticker, and is listed in the option list so I suspect the former.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 04:34:08 pm
content: Hi Rich@RohdeScopesUSA! I am just a hobbyist but I am a big fan of R&S gear, I own an RTM1054 Oscilloscope and a FSEA 30 Spectrum Analyser (thanks to the ebay 2nd hand market), and I am really happy with them.Would be awesome if some of your software unlockable features were more affordable for us hobbyists, at least on the older out of production gear (would love serial bus decoding for my RTM1054), but I understand not wanting to cannibalize your current product stack. Anyways welcome to the forum! Would love to see you send some gear to Dave to review!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 10:39:14 pm
content: Hi Folks - I'm checking on the MSO. I tried it between my HMO1232 and the RTB and it didn't seem to work, but I'm getting the final details (some of my equipment is pre-released).-Rich

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 03:15:51 am
content: Rich:Please pass along exactly one high-five to each engineer, software developer, and artist who had involvement in the UI design details of the new RTB200x. One high-five each only, please.If they are all congregated in a single room together, and it's ONLY the people who worked on the UI, please pass on a "f**k yeah!" from a stranger on the internet. They did a great job. I just watched Mike's video on serial decoding. [editor's note:I just watched a 50 minute video about serial decoding on a scope I have no chance of affording.] But the features they added re: serial decode and maximizing the usage of screen real estate, and the clean handling of expanding or contracting space... Just beautiful. They have done a great job.And, whoever said that when you browse tohttp://the-oscilloscopeyou should immediately get a mirrored view of the scope, and a tab to control it too... I want you to go to the store, and buy that man a case of beer. A CASE. If you buy this man just a single beer... I have a certain set of skills, skills I have honed in years of... you know, whatever. I will find you. A CASE. OF BEER.Great job.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 03:39:33 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on March 24, 2017, 03:15:51 amThank you for the very nice words! I will absolutely pass it on to the team and the fact that you brought it up will mean ahugeamount to them as I know how much they sweated the details on the GUI.Thanks again.-Rich

author: ci11
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 04:11:05 am
content: Hi Rich,I wonder if you can answer this question about the RTB:On the HMO1212, its 1mV sensitivity is a particularly important feature for my application. Combined with the 16-bit Hi-Res mode and the ability to properly trigger a 20Hz signal, it would be an ideal scope for analog work. An HMO1212 owner did a test for me to show that it can do exactly that - please see attached photo. His input is a 20Hz 400µV sine, the HMO1212 is AC coupled, BWL on and Hi-Res on.Would you mind setting up the RTB the same way to see and show a screenshot of it doing the same - or better? Thank you very much!Steve

author: irakandjii
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 01:33:59 pm
content: Hi RichIn the other thread "RTB2000" specific. Mike has done a 55 min. video on serial decodes. For the most part, I am very pleased with the capability & features.His comments on the framing for UART framing are "valid" in my opinion. It appears for the decode purposes the framing is "1 symbol" as stipulated Baud rate definition. Baud rate = number of symbol changes per sec.But, the more useful form of framing is as Mike states "is a sequence of symbols".1) Even the simplistic form of Frame defined as "20 symbols1" would be a huge improvement.2) Frame defined as "arbitrary start symbol"+ "all symbols here" +"arbitrary stop symbol" Would be even more useful.Example: (STX) + "Hello World" + (ETX) is a text frame in the ancient world of ASCIII don't know if this is possible, but it would be a HUGE differentiator for your scope!OOP's when I put the literal 20 in "20 symbols1" , I meant an unsigned integer variable(1) Symbol is defined as "Number of data bits", symbol frame = databits + stop bits ... etc

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 01:43:47 pm
content: Quote from: irakandjii on March 24, 2017, 01:33:59 pmHi irakandjii - thanks for pointing this out. My understanding is R&D in Germany has already reviewed Mike's video and has put together a list of answers, enhancements and bug fixes and has provided that to our local person in the UK to pass on to Mike. I actually haven't seen the list yet, so I can't say how this was specific topic was answered, but please stay tuned.-Rich

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 01:48:33 pm
content: Quote from: irakandjii on March 24, 2017, 01:33:59 pmFraming each byte makes no sense whatsoever and would have no useful purpose. Framing packets would be useful and be consistent with how SPI decode behaves.I don't think they should bother with STX/ETX etc. as they are wider and there are still all the top-bit set values to deal with - 2 hex digits is just fine.

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 01:56:47 pm
content: Hi Rich,I have a question about the R&S 'scope range. But first a little background.Five or six years ago, when R&S first entered the 'scope market, I bought (well I selected, my then employer bought) two of your 1GHz four channel 'scopes. I think the list price was close to £30,000 UKP. Unfortunately I don't remember the model number.As you should expect for that kind of money they were absolutely superb pieces of kit. Very low noise high resolution measuring machines. Typical R&S quality.Since then, R&S have acquired Hameg. Now all Hameg designs are badged as R&S.Now I'm sure there were very good business reasons for doing this, but Hameg sold into the high end hobbiest / low end electronics market. They didn't have R&S's attention to detail and they didn't pretend to.Could you please tell us which of the current lines are designed in house at R&S and which are Hameg 'scopes.I'm sure you will tell us that R&S have been working hard to bring your quality to the lower end 'scopes. I'd be very interested to know what has been done on that front.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 02:58:05 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 23, 2017, 02:19:38 pmThanks. As I mentioned before, the actual measurement capability is excellent, especially the low noise even on the 1mV/div scale. I will reiterate that the support I received was generally very good.My rant about scopes just means that I would like you to succeed in this market and provide the other scope vendors some serious competition.John

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2017, 02:29:47 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on March 23, 2017, 03:19:09 pmWas able to track this down. The short answer is yes, the HO3508 will work on the RTB. The longer answer is you have to be careful with the ZL03 (replacement for the HO3508) going to a Hameg and back to the RTB. If you run alignment on the HMO it will flash those alignment values to the ZL03. The RTB's ZL03s are calibrated at the factory, so there is no alignment routine for them on the RTB and the ZL03 would need to be sent back in to be realigned.TL;DR: HO3508 works on RTB. Don't use ZL03 on HMO and run alignment and then bring it back to RTB. Best to keep your ZL03 with your RTBs.-Rich

author: Octane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2017, 02:53:04 am
content: Hi Rich,I just got my RTB2004 launch special. Awesome scope. Just one comment: R&S should really supply the correct color probe cable markers.The trace colors on the scope are yellow, green, orange and blue. The colors of the small clips that come with the probes are: green, orange, blue and pink. So pink is totally wrong and the blue is a darker one compared to the trace on the scope, which probably is not too bad.Just wanted to mention this.Michael

author: R005T3r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 10:16:18 am
content: Hi,I wanted to ask about the NGE103 PSU because the broshure does not mention about it. If you can use the PSU as a total of three separated units, can you serialize two channels in opposite order? Let's say to split 30V in +15 and -15 by connecting the ground of one channel to the hot of another and using the bridge as ground?Thanks.

author: Octane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 01:52:16 pm
content: Yes, you can. The three channels are fully floating and isolated. I'll hopefully get mine today, so if you want to know anything more just ask. Although I have to mention that I'm just building up my lab here, so I don't have much stuff yet to try.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2017, 01:56:41 pm
content: Thanks Octane!-Rich

author: vealmike
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 11:06:41 am
content: Quote from: vealmike on March 24, 2017, 01:56:47 pm^^ Cough ^^Not sure if you missed this Rich, or declined to answer.Am really interested to know what has gone on behind the scenes. Are there two design teams? If one team, is it the old Hameg guys, the old R&S guys or a combination?

author: charliedelta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 12:44:31 pm
content: Why is R&S so secretive about their prices? On a lots of occasions i wanted to buy or recommend your products to the management team and we have no idea what the prices are. R&S should really change this poor marketing decision.If I visit the Keysight web page all the prices are there for the world to see.I think R&S promotes the image that their products are the best in the world and if you have to ask the price you not the kind of customer that R&S wants. To me this is poor marketing.Then theres the general lack of availability of manuals on the web page. Not every manual is published or a available. When I find a company that does not want to release information to a potential customer even if I purchased the unit second hand it makes me very nervous about buying such equipment. R&S seem to be control freaks regarding the release of information.Dont get me wrong, I love the excellent product range. But R&S seem to be a very elitist company who want to seem to only want to pursue the very top buyers in the market. I could be wrong about this assumption?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 01:24:03 pm
content: Quote from: vealmike on April 27, 2017, 11:06:41 amHi vealmike - sorry I hadn't responded to this. I believe I responded in the RTB2000 thread to a similar question, but that thread is massive so it is easily missed.In general, the teams have been together for some time (Hameg joined R&S back in 2005), but up to this point the HMO scopes have used the same architecture. The RTB2000 is one of our first scopes that has been designed by a combination of our development teams from the ground up with new R&S ASICs, SW, etc.So short answer - it is a combination.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2017, 01:36:12 pm
content: Quote from: charliedelta on April 27, 2017, 12:44:31 pmHi charliedelta - it's actually a lot less sinister than thatFor decades we've been an engineering company run by engineers. Marketing was not top of mind. But we are trying to get better (without losing our focus on creating the best products possible). Unfortunately, many of our processes do not support this yet (and because of that, combined with a worldwide sales) it makes it difficult to implement today. But, you'll see things like prices start to show up (hopefully soon in North America). It's just taking time. And almost all of our manuals for newer products (I say almost because I'm not involved with all our products - I'm sure there is an exception - but things like our scopes have all their manuals on the web) are on the web today and we also have a customer portal called "gloris" (gloris.rohde-schwarz.com) that owners of products can register at and get manuals from as well.Hope this helps and sorry for the challenges.-Rich

author: norks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2017, 04:27:04 am
content: Hi Rich,I received my RTB2004 this week and I'm loving it so farBefore getting my hands on it I didn't think much of the touchscreen (been fine without it up to now) but I really like it. It's very quick and user friendly for some types of inputs and adjustments. The physical controls and touch complement each other to great effect.Mainly I wanted to report a bug I found where the channel that the cursors are active for doesn't always update properly as channels are being turned on and off. For example, with cursors on CH4, turn on CH1 and turn off CH4 -> cursors instantly switch to CH1. Do the same but starting with CH1 on, and cursors don't auto-switch to CH4. I noticed this when I was only using CH4 and I turned on cursors to play around and get a feel for things, but the cursor measurements were reading from CH1 oddly. See screenshot...(exception: if the cursor menu is open and SOURCE is the active field, the auto-switching works)I have FW 1.204Also, they missed a typo in the current user manual, search "Troggering"

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2017, 04:51:33 pm
content: Thanks Norks - I've submitted these to the team.-Rich

author: norks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 04:55:10 am
content: Hi Rich, some more issues I encountered....1. When using the general purpose knob to change trigger sources, the highlighted selection in the menu doesn't update until the scope fully switches to the new trigger source which takes ~1 second. So it's a clunky wait time before you get visual feedback on which source is currently selected. For example, if you want to move 3 spaces down you can't really zip the wheel down the list, you kinda have to repeat the delay 3 times. Yes, using touch can get around it but the knobs should work well too ideally.2. When you open the Horizontal menu, tap the Horizontal Position field, and use the general purpose knob to adjust it, The sensitivity of the knob doesn't scale, it only moves by the smallest increment. So even with a long time base or a large initial setting (e.g. +1 sec), turning the adj knob only changes it by nanoseconds at a time. I think the sensitivity should be tied to the time base. Granted you'll usually use the dedicated H-POSITION knob for this but again, other controls should still behave sensibly.3. The 2nd time I played around with the logic pods they got into a funky state that showed lots of noise across all channels, both logic ports and both pods in any configuration. It looked like noise-induced false edges all over the signal lines. I had 4 lines hooked to the pattern generator but the noise was on all 16. I tried pod grounding, individual line grounding, clearing the bench of other cabling, disconnecting USB, no change. I went through the full range of threshold and hysteresis adjustments, again only insignificant effects. After giving up, I soft power cycled the scope and that restored clean signals. I haven't been able to recreate it so far.4. In the Pattern Gen modes SQUARE, COUNTER, ARB, and MANUAL I don't think I like the behavior when the PATTERN STATE toggle switch (on/off switch) is turned off. It acts like a pause button where the last state (e.g. P0-3 = Hi Lo Lo Hi) is held at the output, rather than all lines going low which is what I expected. I haven't given it that much thought so I can believe the designers had their reasons for doing it that way.5. In Pattern Gen - Arbitrary, after tapping INDEX the touchscreen control to slide the index has weird behavior when you're already at the very beginning (i.e. index -1 is on screen). The index moves opposite your finger motion. The motion is correct when viewing somewhere in the middle of the pattern, but when it can't scroll further left you see the weird behavior.6. I think the protocol decode function for "Parallel" bus should have the option for a user defined virtual clock rate. As it works now, if 2 or more consecutive symbols are the same they all get interpreted as 1 instance of that symbol. So when I generated this 4-bit hex stream: [F E E D F E E E D F E E E E D] the decode yielded: [F E D F E D F E D].The user could use the "Parallel Clocked" bus but must have an external clock signal to feed it. You can't just tell it what clock rate or bit width to use to interpret the bus. The non-clocked Parallel mode doesn't seem useful as it currently works.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 02:26:10 pm
content: Thanks norks - I'll submit these to our enhancements/defects tracker.-Rich

author: JanJansen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 02:43:24 pm
content: Hello Rich,what is that in the middle of the first row in the picture ?, looks like a newer version of the HMC 8012 ?Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 14, 2017, 02:25:28 pm

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 02:47:17 pm
content: Quote from: JanJansen on May 03, 2017, 02:43:24 pmHi JanJansen - it is our new NGE100 power supply.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/nge100-productstartpage_63493-387267.htmlIntroduced at the same time as our RTB2000 scope and the FPC1000 SA.-Rich

author: Octane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 05:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: JanJansen on May 03, 2017, 02:43:24 pmHi,I got one of those, but it was kind of a lemon, I will send it back today. If you want to know more about it, look at:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/newly-released-entry-level-rs-nge100-power-supply-series/Michael

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 12:44:00 pm
content: Rich,I found some bugs in the pattern generator on the new RTB2004:1) When the output BNC is set to 10Mhz or Trigger Out the P3 (pattern output) does not work. However when output BNC is set to OFF or Generator, it does work.. P0, P1 and P2 are unaffected by the output BNC setting, very weird.2) The pattern can run at 50Mhz, which implies a 20ns bit rate. However the pulse edges among P0, P1, P2 and P3 vary by several nanoseconds. So at high pattern rates it's sort of useless. Not sure how hard it would be to get these pulse edges lined up better, but it would make the pattern generator a lot more useful.Thanks,Katie

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 12:51:18 pm
content: Quote from: kwass on May 04, 2017, 12:44:00 pmThanks Katie - I'll submit these bugs.-Rich

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 03:02:24 pm
content: how many ENOB does RTB2000 have at 70,100,200 and 300mhz?does it have rectangular/boxcar or gaussian/eres window in high resolution mode?Not really a question,more like loud thinking,the boxcar window function have perfect time domain response,no ringing,but it have ripple in freqency domain instead of the smooth curve of gaussian window.Does that mean that if I am using FFT while in high resolution boxcar mode,that the FFT will give distorted reading caused by the freqency domain ripple of the boxcar window?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 05:26:24 pm
content: Quote from: Martin.M on May 04, 2017, 03:12:22 pmThat's awesome-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 05:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on May 04, 2017, 03:02:24 pmHi fonograph - I'm checking on your questions. And I'm 99% sure we use boxcar averaging for our High-res mode, but given we also use noise shaping and filtering (HD mode) in some of our higher-end instruments, I thought I'd better check.-Rich

author: Fgrir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 07:54:50 pm
content: Just got my RTB2004 and I think I might be falling in loveThat said, let me throw my share of bugs (FW ver. 01.204) into the pile:Logic channel labels don't move with their traces when the screen gets vertically rescaled, e.g. when enabling/disabling measurements/history/etc. Analog channel labels move correctly, it just seems to be the logic labels affected. Repositioning the logic group with the vertical position knob redraws the labels with correct alignment. Scaling the logic group with the vertical scale knob corrects the misalignment on all but the topmost logic channel.FFT source select in touchscreen will not pop up a list of choices if only one analog channel is enabled. OK, that generally makes sense unless the currently selected FFT source is not the enabled channel. To recreate this:Enable Channel 1 only.Enable FFT on Channel 1.Disable Channel 1.Enable Channel 2.FFT source is still Channel 1, and source select touch menu will not allow change. Knob must be turned to select Channel 2.When the scope is in run mode and normal trigger mode the acquired waveform is sometimes lost without a trigger when changing horizontal scale. I suppose I need to train myself to hit stop or use Zoom when I want to look more closely at a triggered waveform.Lastly, a suggestion to show the trace labels alongside the channel names in channel select menus - there is certainly enough space. If I've gone through the trouble of labeling 16 logic channels it would be nice to be able to choose which one to use as a trigger source by name rather than number, especially since the channel select list tends to cover up the labels on the screen.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 02:24:33 pm
content: Thanks everyone for submitting the bugs/enhancements. R&D is aware of them all.A couple comments:1. Many of the bugs/defects are fixed in an upcoming release. As soon as it is out, I'll post a link and let everyone know what has been fixed. Please don't hesitate to let me know if you see an issue.2. With respect to enhancements, we love to hear ideas on how to make the scope better. We clearly can't implement everything, but definitely appreciate you taking the time to give the feedback.Thanks again!-Rich

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 03:26:05 pm
content: This is nice to hear.I would strongly vote for havingduplexUart and SPI decoders (showing both directions of the communication at once). A decoder with only RxorTx is outdated. This great scope deserves better. Even the new $350 Siglent coming with FREE decoders can do this.If you tell me that this will be implemented (or alternatively a total of 3 or 4 one-way decoders) I would purchase the scope right away.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 08:00:18 am
content: How many extra bits can you get in high res mode? 2? 6?? Can you set how many extra bits you get or is it automatic? Like can I decide if I halve the samplerate for aditional half bit or 4096x lower samplerate for 6 extra bits

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 05:51:34 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on May 06, 2017, 08:00:18 amHi fonograph - you can get up to 16-bits (so 6 additional). It is handled automatically.-Rich

author: smgvbest
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 10:24:53 pm
content: Hi Rich,I know you're a scope guy but would it be possible for you to help in locating the full service manual to the SMIQ series RF Vector Sig Gens?All we can find is a service manual that is missing the schematics and part placements. we would be extremely helpfull to those of us picking them up on ebay. Most seem to have ALC or level problems so even it is was the IQCON and IQMOD boards that would help so much.understand if it's not you area and can't help but thought I would ask?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 01:38:07 am
content: Quote from: smgvbest on May 06, 2017, 10:24:53 pmI'll see what I can find!-Rich

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 03:00:09 pm
content: Hi Rich,Not sure if you can help me out here or not but I have been advised that I should at least ask you so here goes.I have just aquired a Hameg HM 408-1A storage scope which has a few problems to sort out electronically, but they can wait until I see if I can fix other more important issues with the mechanics, no point in resolving the electronics if I can't control the thing is there?Can you advise me as to where I might be able to source the nylon flexible couplings that sit between the Intensity, Focus, Readout Focus and the Volts / Division controls and the knobs? I also could do with but not essential, are the grey key caps for the Y Pos I and Y Position II, just the push in caps?There is a thread open regarding this restoration herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hameg-408-1a/which has a photo of the flexible couplings in question.I'll understand if you can't help, but like I said, you was recommended to me as your company took over Hameg.

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 06:39:40 pm
content: hello Rich,this was only for smiling. In the good old time the Tek Oldies was sold in germany by the general distribution of R+S, so they all have the silver label on the caseThe picture is from a SONY-Tek, made in Japan with american parts and sold / serviced here in germany by R+S. That little portable scope is build 1967.I have also a glowing Telequipment scope in my collection what have the label from Rohde+Schwarz Vertriebs-GmbHgreetingsMartin

author: grouchobyte
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 07:07:40 pm
content: Hello RichGot a demo unit of the RTB 2004 for a week. Nice scope. However, it needs more work.Pros:-crisp clear and readable big screen-touch screen is nice-works well alternately with a mouse-web interface is nicely implemented and works well-UI is decent for R&S......legacy RS UIs not so wonderful-uber quiet and uber fast boot times- color changing channel lights for trigger source and vertical channel selection is very handy and intuitiveCons-slow and laggy-response to button pushes, knob turns, etc- qutesy fade/ roll in roll out menu stuff belongs on an iphone-slow update rate- below average for this scope class()-annotation feature is like a VGA-era paint program. Good for a kindergarten scope class-no useful waveform and data output other that CSV- no math functions other than +/-/ mult and div-no built-in 50 ohm termination-encoder detents on some controls like trigger and vert/hor pos are annoying- cheap enclosure-numerous measurements like the attached for a 10 bit front end.....shameful....especially w/ fast low level signalsie: Can't measure Tr and Tf on a 10nS, 7mV pulse.....- FFT measurement no better than the competition and lacks flexibility like RTE seriesI mostly use my DSOX3104A, but the small screen, lack of mouse and touch capability has me wanting something more for engineering work since the buttons and select knob get annoying to use after some timeAnd for upwards of $7K US fully loaded RTB with options..... which you call "entry level" you have to be friggin kidding!@grouchobyte(Former Tektronix design engineer and HP Applications engineer-06 group Loveland CO 1970's)

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2017, 07:16:25 pm
content: my Rohde+SchwarzFER Bn.4721count only up to 20.000 pcs/sec. Is there an update to make it faster?here is the video, counting a test signal of 1kHz:http://www.wellenkino.de/fer/fer-1.AVIgreetingsMartin

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:39:45 am
content: Quote from: Specmaster on May 07, 2017, 03:00:09 pmI'll see what I can find out!-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:45:15 am
content: Quote from: Martin.M on May 07, 2017, 07:16:25 pmThat is awesome too! You've got some great equipment.My oldest gear is a Tek 2465 and one of HP's first logic analyzers. Don't use them much any more, but I'm a fan of fun, older gear.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 12:47:40 am
content: Quote from: grouchobyte on May 07, 2017, 07:07:40 pmHi grouchobyte - thanks for taking a look at the RTB and I appreciate the feedback (both positive and negative).-Rich

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 04:44:00 pm
content: this is the fat SWOB IIIfull extendet, up to 1.25GHzI use it sometimes for sweeping L+C

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 05:00:56 pm
content: I have restorated this cute shortwave receiver, it`s the very heavy Rohde+Schwarz EK07D (weight 66kg)the oldest R+S here is the RC generator SRV, from a time the name of the Manufacturing was Dr-Rohde + Dr. Schwarz

author: GameProgrammer79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 08:58:20 pm
content: hi Rich, I wanted to buy a RTB2004. Contacted local R&S sales many times. When I could finally reach out to someone, they directed me to a small company. R&S sales can't sale it to me. The quotation I received from small company for the base model is almost $600 more than the recommended market price in Europe and in USBtw I'm live in sunny Dubai.I am not at all happy with the R&S sales here, upset with the way they treat customers. I am skeptical about the after sales support as well. On the other hand Keysight distributor was really easy to reach out, they were transparent with their pricing as well. They also sent me a price which is reasonable about 10% above the price in US / Europe assuming they import from Europe.I know you are looking after US and Canada, probably you can direct my query to the right person. Probably you can direct my query to right person in R&S sales who would give me a reasonable quotation.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: GameProgrammer79 on May 09, 2017, 08:58:20 pmI had same experience with R&S when I lived in the UAEboth indirect AND dealing direct with the German HQ looking after the Middle East.But in general the UAE - most imported products are overpriced by 20-30%. It is mostly due to the way the UAE protects "distributors" - that means they can charge more or less what they want because there will never be competition on the same brand. (In UAE to be anofficialdistributor of a product you have to hold a UAE Passport or company have to be 100% Emirati owned)Many western companies was not aware of that when they handed out distributorships in the early days when they did not count the UAE market for anything. And if the Emirati was smart and registered his distributor rights - it is very hard for the western company to get rid of the distributor unless there are very serious breach of contract. But now it means little competition and prices well above even European prices incl VAT despite (still?) no VAT and only 5% import duty.I therefore learned to import from the USA and found the most efficient "trade routes" with shipping agents.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 10:24:23 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on May 09, 2017, 09:36:57 pmNot just UAE, but generally it's very hard to bypass local distributors in Middle East region, they are very protected. Many influential companies have tried in the past 10yrs since the market is into premium products only to go as far as a representative office, i.e. marketing influence and better insight for more accurate sales forecasts.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 01:54:45 pm
content: Quote from: GameProgrammer79 on May 09, 2017, 08:58:20 pmSorry for my slow response. In general, this definitely wouldn't be my area of expertise and it sounds like there are some unique items for the Middle East (based on the posts of the other folks), but I'll see if I can find anything else out for you as well. And sorry for the trouble-Rich

author: GameProgrammer79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 12:25:02 am
content: QuoteAh I now know the true story.. yes this is something cant be corrected. But as you hinted, it is perfectly fine to import things of interest following local rules. I bet even after paying the import duty (ideally import duty should be free as I work in free zone) of 7% still it will be cheaper than local prices. Do you know if R&S provides global warranty ? probably it is a question for RichRich, do you know if R&S products specifically RTB2004 is covered under global warranty ?

author: GameProgrammer79
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 12:27:03 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on May 10, 2017, 01:54:45 pmThanks for looking into my query ..

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2017, 01:12:48 pm
content: this is not oscilloscope question but I will try anyway.The HMF2550 arbitrary function generator,if I have PWM carrier,and I want to module it with sinewave,what is the highest freqency that modulating sinewave can be? Also what is the maximum PWM carrier freqency?

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2017, 06:28:32 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 13, 2017, 02:38:03 amHi Rich,I am a brand new owner of a RTB2004. It is an awesome scope and I am really enjoying it.However, I find it to be not nearly as quiet as I thought it would be. There is some serious attention to details on the airflow and the rubber mounting on the fan, but I found that, except briefly during the first seconds of boot, the fan is running at full speed (10.7V) all the time. Other users report having a nearly silent unit, so I am wondering if there is something wrong. Over on the RTB2004 thread, at least one other user has the same issue. This is at 21C ambient and no airflow restriction.1. Is the fan supposed to be thermally controlled or is it supposed to run at full speed all the time?2. If it is supposed to run at full speed, I may have gotten a noisy fan.3. If it is thermally controlled, is there a diagnostic for whatever temp sensor is used to decide the fan speed?As an aside, is the 01.204 firmware available somewhere? I downgraded to 01.203 to see if it fixed the fan issue, but I am now getting an error during boot.Laurent

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 01:33:37 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on May 11, 2017, 01:12:48 pmHi fonograph - unfortunately, I'm not sure. And I have to admit, I've been swamped lately and haven't had much time to follow up on non-scope questions. If you need an answer quickly, I'd highly suggest calling the support line for your region. Go tohttps://www.rohde-schwarz.com/,make sure to select your country and then go under the service and support section. There will be contact info there for you and they should be able to get you the answer faster than I can.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 01:39:58 am
content: Quote from: LaurentR on May 12, 2017, 06:28:32 pmHi LaurantR - first, thanks for getting a R&S scope and I'm glad you like it. Second, I am checking on how the thermal management works. I believe it will vary based on temp, but I want to make sure. Having said that, your scope should be very quiet. It sounds like something is abnormal. One thing I'd like you to try to see if it solves the fan issue - a hard reset. To do that:-Switch off unit-Switch on unit-When the units shows the remark about pressing AUTOSET to reset the language: press and hold PRESET until the unit boots to the update FW screen-Exit that menuWith respect to 1.204 - that was a tweak for manufacturing and didn't change anything functionally between 1.203 and it. Which is why it hasn't been posted on the web. I'll see if I can get you a version of it in the meantime, otherwise when the new firmware comes out this month that should solve the issue you are seeing.-Rich

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 05:40:06 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on May 13, 2017, 01:39:58 amThe reset procedure did what it was supposed to do, but that didn't change anything to the fan noise/speed issue.Please let me know if the fan is indeed supposed to be thermally controlled and if there is any diagnostic steps I can take (or seek direct support with R&S or the reseller).

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 09:44:35 am
content: Hi Rich,I have the exact same problem with the fan noise, and the reset procedure didn't fix mine either. In the RTB2k thread it seems that some have very little noise (difficult to tell that unit is on) while others have a lot (annoyingly loud), and I'm unfortunately in the latter camp. I'll wait and see what the response is - hopefully it's easily resolvable and I don't need to get my unit replaced (fan cycles through speeds on bootup, including the almost-inaudible one, then goes full blast during operation, so it's pretty clearly being set to the wrong speed, but that speed control does work).

author: psient
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 11:32:05 am
content: Hello all:Please I ask you Rich, for my edification, why should I buy a R&S as a first scope? I am just beginning my work shop. I can't really understand them . . . yet . . . but Rigol is arguing to spend with them. I am new to electronics, old to the U.S. and have a lot of experience in being educated.I just found this thread and though my story may not interest all the engineers here I respect and enjoy their posting intelligent back and forths. As to this post, I hope sensibilities extend back to their pre-teens when they started as I'm the geriatric version.New here at over 65 I'm a non entitled-ist (I'm U.S. but not -not entitled in the vein gowdy, ryan, mr. turtle want to force). I'd like to thank you for your generous dedication in responding with such a genuine and authentic demeanor.Dave Jones gets paid for eevblogging in part so I can ask because of him, thanks to him as well, the duck's guts!I want to grow but am retired and, while ryan is trying to destroy my ilk, he has not succeeded yet. I still get my laborers small stipend to survive. Mind you I went from manual labor with 0 college to PhD in 7 years @ 44 years old (Uni California, not a paper mill but real science). Please help me understand entry to eevblog engineering with only an intense education in statistics and ethics. Sorry for the. . . not really

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 11:55:43 am
content: Quote from: psient on May 13, 2017, 11:32:05 amUnless money is no object and you really like nice shiny things with lots of bells & whistles you probably shouldn't.As a beginner you'd be paying for features and performance you're unlikely to need for quite a while.Something like The Rigol 1054Z, the new Siglent, or the Keysight DSOX1000 would do all you're likely to need for quite a while, and as & when you find them limiting, look to upgrade.The only reason not to buy the R&S as a first scope is money. It will do everything you want to and more, and won't be any harder to use than a lower-end unit, so if the price is not an issue, fine.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2017, 01:36:34 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 13, 2017, 11:55:43 amCan't disagree.-Rich

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2017, 04:34:03 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on May 13, 2017, 01:39:58 amWell, temp control may really be broken. I got this error this morning. Hasn't reappeared since. 19C ambient.Corrected: Now happens every time I boot. UI is very slow / unresponsive. Maybe thermal throttling?At this point, I have sent an email to R&S support.

author: Octane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2017, 09:07:37 pm
content: Hey Rich,Just an idea/suggestion. Would it be possible to use one of the channels as an intensity input (also sometimes called z-input). This would be especially useful if one could use x-y mode (ch1 &ch2) and then use channel 3 as an intensity input.As I said just a thought. Could be a nice feature.BR,MichaelP.S.: Any update on a new firmware?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: Octane on May 15, 2017, 09:07:37 pmHi Michael - I know exactly what you are looking for and it is a good suggestion. I'll run it by the team. With respect to the firmware, still on track for this month. I'll let everyone know once it hits.-Rich

author: phs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2017, 05:55:23 pm
content: Hi Rich,Thanks for your presence here and for all of your time and efforts – it provides reassurance that R&S is serious about addressing customer needs. Sorry for the length of this post, but I really hope it helps R&S to improve a product with great potential. The RTB is so close to being a superior tool that can be relied upon for the vast majority of projects here, but at this time is still missing some critical functionality that is causing it to just miss the mark.Recently received the first RTB2004 (with all options) and there’s another one on order. The core premise of this scope’s design, and its performance are quite excellent. Effective, innovative GUI platform and solid, clean, hardware design. The touch screen works well and user interface features like the Track Grid and Grid Annotation options are truly useful. Also, the basics of protocol decoding seem to work well, which is a commonly used function here, and definitely a nice speed improvement over the Rigols it will be attempting to replace. And, the glossy screen isn’t bothersome – it’s crisp, bright, and whatever lag there may isn’t that noticeable in operation. One of the biggest selling points was the remote access capabilities via Ethernet. Not relying on some bloated Windows app is really where things should be going, so that any OS can fully control the instrument, and the user isn’t forced to use a proprietary OS from a hostile company.Unfortunately, there seem to be several significant feature omissions on the RTB at this point, that mean it won’t be able to fully replace even a DS1074z Rigol. Hopefully these missing features are just not understood here, there are workarounds for them, or R&S is planning on adding them. It would be a shame for folks to expect the RTB to fully replace low-end Rigols (or similar) only to discover that relatively standard features they were used to using simply don’t exist in the RTB series. Also, it might be wise for R&S to continue to flesh out the feature set of the current RTB series, rather than just hold out on them for a higher-end model that will be yet again many more times expensive than the Rigols, Siglents, etc.So, it seems R&S are working on a number of bugs folks have already pointed out, but it’s not clear the following omissions have been mentioned yet – 3 of which are the biggest show-stoppers:1) Vertically zooming in on a waveform with a DC offset2) Lack of nth Edge triggering3) UART decode speed limitation of 3 MbpsThere are quite a few other missing features on the RTB that the Rigols have, that have been frequently useful in the past, and at the least are disappointing omissions on a machine of this caliber, but aren’t quite as critical for typical projects, like other missing trigger types, limited math functions, dedicated knobs for easy, precise scrolling of large values, and other items most folks have likely come to expect in this class of scope.So, vertical zooming – hopefully this is simply a lack of understanding of how the RTB works at my end, rather than an omission. Rigol has a feature called Vertical Expansion: Center or Ground. When set to Center, this setting allows the user to place a waveform with a DC offset in the center of the screen, and then zoom in as far as possible without the waveform disappearing off the top (or bottom for negative DC offset) each time the vertical zoom knob is turned. This function is turned on at all times here, as it saves a ton of time when the user desires to zoom in on a waveform with a DC component – without using AC input coupling -- in order to leverage the maximum possible resolution of the scope. This is used a lot to check the quality of power rails, as one example. A simple function, but in addition to saving a lot of time, it makes the instrument much less frustrating to use. On an RTB, try quickly zooming all the way in on a signal with a 5V DC offset (without using AC coupling) – you’ll begin to hate small, slippery, detented knobs, like the vertical position knob – especially if this is a function you have to perform a lot.The second item that makes ditching the Rigols impossible is the limited trigger selection on the RTB. Most commonly used here are Edge, Pulse, Nth Edge, Video, and the various protocol triggers. There have been times when Runt, Windows, Pattern, and others are used, but less frequently. Of course hold-off is used frequently with Edge, and sometimes instead of a protocol trigger for non-clocked signals not conforming to normal UART specs.Unfortunately, along with other trigger functions, the RTB is missing Nth Edge, Runt, Windows, and there is no hold-off in the protocol triggers that I could find. Nth Edge is used frequently here when working with protocol analysis. These are disappointing omissions, and demonstrate at least one reason the Rigol products have done so well. They cover their customers with a very useful selection of utilitarian functions, and they actually work properly (for the most part).The third biggest issue is the limitation of 3Mbps for UART decoding. In this day and age 3Mbps is quite limiting. Though it hasn’t been fully tested here, the Rigol DS20xx has settings up to 20Mbps. To be clear, protocol decoding is less painful on the RTB than on the Rigols, but the speed limitations mean the RTB can’t be used for a lot of projects, again forcing a fall back to the Rigol.If at the very least, along with the issues other folks have brought up, the Vertical Expansion, nth Edge trigger, and UART decode speed were addressed, I expect the Rigols would no longer be needed for most stuff (here, anyway), and the benefits of the RTB could be fully enjoyed. If it’s not likely that at least these three items will change in the near future, then it will be necessary to cancel the order for the second RTB, and to look for a more comprehensive scope that isn’t missing so many of the useful functions provided in the Rigol products. Utility wins over a beautiful UI most days of the week. It would be a shame for a wonderful instrument like the RTB to remain significantly behind the Rigol’s feature set when it’s so close to being superior overall.Hopefully this all won’t be taken the wrong way – this scope platform has great potential, and I absolutely love using it! It’s just that right now it is lacking a number of functions we happen to depend on, that much cheaper instruments currently offer. However, it seems these might be relatively easy to fix, and I really hope R&S steps up and gives this beauty the brains it deserves!Thanks again for your time Rich!Current list of issues/desired improvements (these 3, at least, are major issues/limitations):- Vertical Expansion Center/Ground (increasing vertical amplification expands with waveform in the center of the screen (don’t have to use AC input coupling[can keep track of DC offset, etc., while zooming in on the waveform])- UART – Need speed up to 10Mbps, at least- More trigger types – at least Nth Edge, Runt and WindowsAt least some of the following, I’d imagine, should be relatively easy to address and will only make your customers happier:- Only 4 measurements at one time.- Graph mode to show measurement history, as on the Rigol DS2000 – incredibly useful, and would look awesome on the RTB screen!- Give us options for larger knobs (rubber-coated?) for Vertical/Horizontal Position and Analysis – scrolling with knobs on this scope should be fun – it can actually be tedious and physically painful- Analysis knob – acceleration needs improvement. EX: setting holdoff time – ouch!- Idle time setting – cant see waveform while setting- Settings windows obscure waveforms- Cursor Delta t and 1/Delta t hidden by menus when setting up cursors- More comprehensive mouse/Keyboard support – none of the wireless Logitechs seem to work here (M570, M185, M310, K270, K520)- Need more math types – at least differential and integral- AWG quite limited, esp. when comparing it’s price with something like the Siglent 2042x- More comprehensive data-logging options- Web UI – double-click on screen to get full-screen (controls disappear) – double-click to get back.- Allow users to create "apps"- User-selectable waveform colors- User-selectable grid colors- Cursor – snap mode (snap to edges as moved)- More flexibility with where the screen scrolls (Trigger, user, Center, Right, Left)- FFT – Markers – Search for next peak/low- FFT – Waterfall (would be helpful, but not critical)Thanks,-- phsedit: Remove Pulse triggering, clarification

author: piranha32
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 01:06:29 am
content: phs,great list. I would like to add one thing that really annoys me since the day I took my scope out of the box: trigger on the sweep of the signal generator. It's as much of a substitute for a real spectrum analyzer as an FFT, so marketing people at R&S don't need to worry that it will eat part of their SA market, but would be very helpful when working with RF circuits.

author: Joel_l
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 02:11:34 am
content: I like this list, I didn't notice that Nth edge was missing, I think I saw Nth single and thought that was it. Haven't tried it but seems it could get what you want, the Nth waveform would be the one of interest.Not sure why Pulse is different than the Width trigger.I sure hope R&S is looking at these request. Especially considering the class of scope they want this to be.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 04:11:46 am
content: Quote from: Joel_l on May 30, 2017, 02:11:34 amI sincerely hope they can change their plans, but between the facts that:* They don't see the like of Rigol as competitors (where Rigol's 1000Z has advanced triggering and math)* The oscilloscope selection guide clearly shows "basic triggers" and "elementary math" as class defining specshttps://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/Scope_FamilyFlyer_e_3607_0946_32_V0601.pdfTheir product folks clearly think this is how it should be.This is just saying we should keep the pressure on and not let go. I don't think these are class defining and they shouldn't be crippled just for market segmentation. I doubt too many people on this board will take the plunge and spend $10k on the next scope up just to get advanced triggering or math. What they will do is buy a Rigol, if they don't have one already.All this does is make people cross-shop for a Rigol or delay their purchase of a R&S scope until a time where this is offered by one of the tier 1 manufacturer in that range; neither of which is good for business. I think the pick up of more advanced triggering and math by tier 1 manufacturers is imminent as they start feeling actual heat from the Rigols and lack of differentiation with each other.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 08:55:49 am
content: Quote from: piranha32 on May 30, 2017, 01:06:29 amThis is something that was highlighted internally pretty early on, so hopefully will be addressed soon.

author: Pinkus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 10:43:28 am
content: Quote from: LaurentR on May 30, 2017, 04:11:46 am+1It is really astonishing: they do have a very competitive product in their market segment .... and then they are crippling it and leaving the segment. Really: without adv. math, more advanced triggers and duplex serial protocol analysis they are lacking features which are standard today even in the cheapest $500 hobby class. Missing these features are positioning the RTB2004 even below these $500 China devices.Yes, 10" and touch are nice to have. Also 10bit is nice to have. Butimportantare the trigger & measurement functions and features inside the device!If you think this ought to be: sorry R&S then the RTB2004 will not be a device for me.I am fully honest: I am waiting for the first firmware revision to check if they are willing to improve and to add the missing features. If so I will buy one right away. Promised! If not: good bye R&S.I want a RTB2004 with duplex serial decoders, more trigger options, adv. measurements because I need this stuff. Your RTE1000 or RTM2000 and HMO1002/1202 are totally different segments and are not of interest (or way too expensive).Would I choose and/or wait for (a more expensive) pro-version with these features?No! Then the MSOX3024T with Appbundle is the gold standard and even today not more expensive than the RTB2004 with all options. And I even would get a 30% discount from Keysight by just dropping an old scope there.I can absolutely understand that companies do need market segments where they address their products too.It is fine for me if they segment on GS/s or bandwidth. Also memory and auto probe detection, zone trigger and other stuff.But crippling features like measurement, trigger and UART / SPI decode in a way they are even worse than what you get everywhere else for free or for a moderate premium ...... sorry R&S. This is dumb and this only offend potential customers.As I said: I am waiting for the next firmware (or at least a promise about what other features will follow in later releases). And I know 2 other people who sit an wait and who will then decide if the RTB2004 will be their next scope. Well, if not, for me it will not be a R&S scope but a Keysight.R&S: with the RTB2004 you have a nice device with a good UI and good basics which can gain the market share of R&S a lot ... if it would be competitive.But it is not competitive because you crippled it.The result: on Ebay they are two brand new unused RTB2004 with all options and full warranty (worth >7000 Euro). One is available for 3100 Euro ..... and nobody purchases it! Guess why?I do not know if this plea will find open ears. Maybe the product manager is not able to change the marketing decision of only implementing basic features. Maybe the RTB2004 is not important for R&S so they just do not care but care more for their other scopes (which are not interesting for me). Well, the next weeks will show if Rohde and Schwarz act smart or .....

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 11:38:20 am
content: I'm currently looking for a second scope and agree with the previous posters. The RTB can't even fully replace my r&s/hameg hmo.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 01:35:31 pm
content: Hi Everyone - thanks for the notes and sorry for my slow reply. Wasn't on here much yesterday.First - phs - thank you for the very detailed and thorough list of suggestions/fixes.Second - thanks to everyone else for adding additional weight behind the proposals.In the end, I'm not the person who defines what capabilities will be added/not added. BUT, I can absolutely pass this on and help advocate for new capabilities, and I do every time I hear the requests (even if they are repeat - in fact, especially if they are repeat, because that often means there is a strong need). So while I can't promise these capabilities will come tomorrow or next year or ever, we definitely still appreciate the feedback.On a related note - I checked on the updated firmware. It has moved slightly (not exactly sure why), but we should have an updated version in the not too distant future. Again, I'll update everyone as soon as it is available.-Rich

author: phs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 30, 2017, 02:23:08 pm
content: piranha32,Thanks. I agree - don't know if the hardware supports it, but trigger from AWG would be a great feature.Joel_l,Yeah, you're right - I didn't edit my list very well. Pulse and Width are basically the same. I think Nx Single determines how many waveforms are captured at a time, whereas Nth Edge Trigger triggers on a specific edge of a waveform, after a specified high/low time. I use Nth Edge a lot.LaurentR,You make good points. It would be a mistake for R&S to not flesh out the feature set of this instrument a bit more. If they can at least address the main 3 issues I listed, I could do most of what I need. Others likely have different needs. As it is now, I'll be reaching for another (much cheaper) scope frequently, which seems rather silly. I'd like to give them a chance though, and we'll see...I agree with points Pinkus and lem_ix make as well.Rich -- thanks for your response. I realize you are doing this as a volunteer effort and really appreciate your willingness to reach out to your customers. I hope your product managers are able to take these strong hints from folks who were willing to put money behind R&S as they attempt to enter this segment.It was risky to try a new product this early on, esp. when the user manual was clearly not mentioning a number of features we count on, but I let the introductory offer and the R&S name push me over the edge. Also, there wasn't a lot of time to make a decision, and though mikeselectricstuff has put up some excellent videos covering specific use cases, there was no review available anywhere (and still isn't) that thoroughly covered the feature set in comparison to other scopes which folks have been using for years now.The bottom line, is that we need to get work done now -- it was a long wait to get this thing. It would be helpful to know what the R&S plans are as soon as possible, as we may have more decisions to make.Thanks again,-- phs

author: Joel_l
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2017, 07:42:45 pm
content: I'm not sure, but my thought is that Nth single captures however many single shots. So lets say you wanted to trigger on the 5th edge of something, the 5th capture of 5 singles would be what you want and the first 4 are not of interest ( maybe ). At least that's what I'm thinking is the way Nth single works. I only think it's N separate captures because it seemed to be a feature of expanded memory.Quote from: phs on May 30, 2017, 02:23:08 pm

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2017, 08:17:20 pm
content: Quote from: Joel_l on May 31, 2017, 07:42:45 pmNx single is a completely different thing. It can't replace Nth edge trigger as the edges could occur in quick succession, far quicker than a complete single acquisition.The reason for Nx single is the way they do segmented functionality.I'm only familiar with how Keysight do it, which is by specifying a number of segments, acquiring each segment, and stopping when all are done. A limitation of this is you might want to see the last <n> segments before manually stopping, and you can't do this.Instead R&S call it "History" mode, which simply gives you access to the last <n> triggers, where <n> depends on the selected memory size. What this alone doesn't let you do is acquire just the first <n> segments.Hence the Nx single allows you to acquire the first <n> segments by pressing SINGLE, or the last <n> by pressing RUN/STOPThis is more flexible than Keysight, but not exactly obvious and they are well aware of this - I only figured it out as I'd previously noticed Nx single and not realised why it was there until I investigated history mode.I spent a while discussing with Joel from R&S when they came to see me a while ago. My suggestion was to add a text prompt to the History mode screen to point out the Nx single functionalityI definitely agree that Nth edge trigger is an unacceptable omission for a scope in this class.

author: Specmaster
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2017, 08:50:01 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on May 08, 2017, 12:39:45 amRich don't worry, I have worked around these couplings now with a bodge but hey it works well, I also purchased some second market couplings from Aliexpress which work well in areas where I had sufficient room to use them as they are approx double the originals in size. Thanks for your efforts so far.

author: technogeeky
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2017, 10:50:04 pm
content: Simple question (inspired discussion in the Rigol bugs thread):Does R&S, at any point,everdiscuss the the open-sourcing (or otherwise free) release of source code or firmware atanypoint during the entire history of a product (from design through to obsolescence)? Why, or why not?If it easier to provide an answer by restricting the domain to oscilloscopes, then please do.It occurred to me that, while we all discuss and speculate reasons whichwebelieve obviate the need to keep software closed and locked up, I wondered if the guys making test gear actually have the discussion internally or not. If not, why not? Surely there are upsides and downsides.I suspect companies as large as R&S, Keysight, Tek, etc. also have educational programs and educational outreach. Perhaps that is a group of people internally could ask the original question from a different viewpoint: is there a point in a product lifecycle that the educational benefit of a source code release outweighs the need for competitive advantage for the techniques used within?I don't mean to antagonize or anything, either: I genuinely thought that maybe the question (what do we lose and gain by open sourcing for this product, at this time?) isn't even being raised at any point in the lifetime of something like an oscilloscope.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2017, 11:55:07 pm
content: Quote from: psient on May 13, 2017, 11:32:05 amAs someone who owns both a Rigol and an R&S scope I can tell you from my experience. They will both do the job. But to me personally the biggest advantage of an R&S scope is the stuff that's not described in the specs (this also applies to Keysight). It's the UI.It's basically the amalgamation of small things that really make a huge difference when you're using the instrument for long periods of time. Rigol's rotary encoders for instance don't implement acceleration. On an R&S scope if you want to move a cursor or a trace or a trigger to the opposite side of the signal, you can do it in just a turn by turning them quickly, acceleration kicks in which lets you travel big distances. On Rigol it's always at the same speed no matter how fast you turn the knob. The end result is, I feel like I am always turning knobs on my Rigol scope, and I am constantly fighting the UI.Instead I should be concentrating on a circuit or the problem I am troubleshooting, but no I need to turn this knob 20 times..That's basically it for me. There is a gulf of difference in the polish and implementation of the interface. Also all features are well thought out and well implemented. Rigol might even have more features than the R&S scope but some are half implemented and others don't even work right. But really for me at least, it all comes down to the well thought out interface.Rigol offers great value in their scopes, I am certainly not complaining, but an R&S scope is a quality tool.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 12:22:50 am
content: Quote from: technogeeky on May 31, 2017, 10:50:04 pmNot antagonistic at all and a really good question IMHO. But it's not something I'm involved in at R&S.-Rich

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 04:53:22 pm
content: Hi, Rich,I have a question about the probe compensation waveform on the RTO1000 scopes. It appears to have a very fast rise time, apparently less than 1 nanosecond. I've never seen such a fast risetime on previous scopes I've used. The user's manual doesn't say anything about rise time of this signal. Can you find out what the nominal rise time is?Thanks.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 09, 2017, 10:05:22 pm
content: Quote from: The Electrician on June 09, 2017, 04:53:22 pmI second this question but for the RTB2k. It's fast enough that I can't measure it properly with the scope itself. Also knowing the impedance would be useful, thanks!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2017, 07:16:53 am
content: Hi Hydron and The Electrician - for both the RTB2000 and the RTO1000/2000 the probe compensation signal's rise-time is quite fast (100s of picoseconds vs most scopes are typically 10s of nanoseconds). We don't spec it but I'll see if I can find out the exact rise-time.There are benefits and drawbacks to a fast rise-time on the probe comp signal. If you use the typical alligator clip ground, you'll see ringing caused by the inductance of the extended ground lead (drawback). But the benefit of the fast rise-time is it allows us to provide a high-frequency adjustment to the probes when you use the short spring clip ground (or on the RTB2000 it has a very elegant way of doing the probe comp with no ground accessory needed).Hope this helps.-Rich

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2017, 09:30:13 pm
content: Hi Rich,Thanks for the info - was mainly interested in confirming that it was well under 1ns. The fast rise time is certainly useful - benefits definitely outweigh the drawback of needing a proper ground (if anything it teaches the user a lesson in good grounding)On another note, did you ever find out about how the fan noise/speed control is meant to work in the RTB series? It was mentioned a while back - it seems that some users find their units very quiet, but others (unfortunately I'm among them) find theirs far from it. It's not a disaster, just strange that some find it quiet, some not, and I'd like to know if there is a problem or if it's just variability in the fan itself (or user's ears/noisy lab environment!). Note that it seems that the fan is running at full speed or close to it, rather than under thermal control.

author: f5r5e5d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 05:18:02 am
content: add me to the day one of use RTB2K-COM4 Gen sweep/arb trigger feature request - testequity was way slow to receive, ship 2nd batchbut certainly a lot to like at intro offer $2080Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 30, 2017, 08:55:49 am

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2017, 06:16:45 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on June 14, 2017, 09:30:13 pmHi Hydron - I thought I had replied to this but clearly I hadn't - sorry about that. The fan is temperature controlled - if it is consistently running at full speed it would need to go in for service to fix that.-Rich

author: JanJansen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:01:00 pm
content: Hi, i am looking to buy a multimeter,any chance you will update the HMC8012 firmware to have "duty cycle display" in the future ?thanks

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 02:15:19 pm
content: Quote from: JanJansen on July 03, 2017, 02:01:00 pmHi JanJansen - unfortunately, I'm not sure as I'm only focused on scopes.Sorry I can't be more help.Rich

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 05:34:00 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on June 12, 2017, 07:16:53 amRich,Did you ever find out from the factory (or wherever) what the rise time is?

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 07:32:28 pm
content: https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/manual/r-s-rt-zp03-manual-manuals-gb1_78701-172932.html

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2017, 09:16:07 pm
content: Quote from: casinada on July 03, 2017, 07:32:28 pmIs this supposed to answer my query about the rise time of the RTO calibrator? I looked through it and didn't see anytning about that.

author: Markus@RohdeScopes
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 11:17:23 am
content: Quote from: The Electrician on July 03, 2017, 09:16:07 pmHi,since the rise time is not checked during production, there are no production informations available. The design of the cal signal is very simple, we check the frequency and the output voltage. But I've measuered the rise time for you on some samples. I've used a 3 GHz single ended probe and got the following results: RTO 464 ps and RTB 604 ps. The probing is not so easy and it's hard to get reliable results. The rise time is steeper as needed for a passive probe calibration. Why do ask this question? I don't understand the intention.Markus

author: The Electrician
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 05:09:32 pm
content: Quote from: Markus@RohdeScopes on July 05, 2017, 11:17:23 amSimple curiosity. I noticed that the rise time was less than 1 nanosecond and I wondered how much less.It is in fact a handy source of fast rise time pulses to check probes; handy because it's right there on the scope.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2017, 10:30:33 pm
content: I see the signal generated by the test probe/pattern generator has a faster rise time than the signal generator one. ~1.1nsec for the probe and ~13nsec for the signal generator.

author: MikeP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 11:26:26 am
content: Hello.Possibly, I am the last person who received promotional RTB2004. It’s excellent device. It is a pity that the promo had VERY limited character.I express big gratitude to creators of the surprising tool. Also I’m very glad to that this thing was available to me. Even by means of little cunnings. Our world becomes better!Thanks.Mike.

author: bikerglen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 04:37:30 pm
content: Hi, Rich,I’m looking for a new scope for home/hobby use. At work, I use Keysight scopes and R&S spectrum analyzers but I’ve never used an R&S scope.I have a few questions about the RTE1024:1) What spectrum analysis capabilities are built-in to the base scope price without purchasing the spectrum analysis option?2) Where in the product life cycle is the RTE1024? In other words, how much longer will it be fully supported for calibration, repairs, and parts replacement should the need arise?3) How much to extend the product warranty out to five years?4) How much is the flat-rate repair price?I have to admit an R&S scope is a long shot given my familiarity with Keysight’s products, but I’m trying to keep an open mind.By the way, I’m in Fort Collins if you and Daniel ever want to go mountain biking up here or I could show you around Curt Gowdy in Wyoming sometime if you’ve never been there. I wouldn’t mind hitting Captain Jack’s or some of the trails down your way either.Thanks,Glen Akinsbikerglen.com

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 04:55:24 pm
content: Quote from: bikerglen on August 18, 2017, 04:37:30 pmHi Glen,Awesome on the mountain biking! Definitely let Daniel and I know if you'll be in the Springs. Captain Jacks is awesome. Falcon on the Air Force Academy is another one of my favorites. And I was actually just up in Ft Collins for the opening of CSU's new stadium (my wife went to CSU). It's awesome - I especially love the New Belgium porchWith respect to your questions:1. The digital down conversion, hardware acceleration, SpecAn input, time gating, colorized view, etc are all part of the standard scope. It is awesome and IMHO tough to go away from once you've used a scope with a fast FFT capability. Option RTE-K18 adds spectrogram, logarithmic display and an automatic peak list detector.2. For the PLC, we provide 5-years of support once a product is discontinued, plus a significant amount of "best effort" beyond that. I actually think this is a huge advantage for R&S - as a privately held company we don't have the typical inventory pressures that cause other companies to flush inventory over time so we can support things well beyond a "typical" amount of time.3. I'm not sure on this - I'll ask our service team.4. Ditto - I'll ask our service team.-Rich

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:46:12 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on August 18, 2017, 04:55:24 pmConsidering that 5 years after discontinuance is typical for Keysight and that LeCroy even offers 7 years full support after end of production, and that both companies support older gear based on best efforts (i.e. LeCroy still offers repair for the 9300 Series of scopes which are from the mid-'90s), I'm actually struggling to see where the huge advantage for R&S is in this regard.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 08:59:28 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 18, 2017, 08:46:12 pmHi Wuerstchenhund - thanks for commenting and I'm glad to see you are commenting more again. You are a valuable member of the community.WRT the support, it is really the best effort part I was mentioning. We had a third party evaluate RF products for support life (our scope products haven't been around long enough) and on average, our support was roughly 5 years longer than others in the industry. Again, a large portion of this is due to us being privately held - if we have inventory we hold on to it, versus writing it off to improve things like ROIC (which is often important to investors in publicly held companies). For scopes, I think you are correct about LeCroy - from what I can tell they do a very good job of long term support too.-Rich

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 09:58:29 pm
content: I don't think the costs of keeping stuff in a warehouse depend much on whether a company is traded publicly or not. If the math of the beancounters shows it is better to dump everything then out it goes.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 10:09:49 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 18, 2017, 09:58:29 pmI do agree with that. But I personally have seen that beancounters in a privately held company have the benefit of thinking about things a little differently (and arguably more logically) than ones in a publicly traded company who may have odd measures that are more geared towards investors than customers or employees.And I'm not trying to start a war around this - just to summarize back to the original question, I think Glen (and other R&S scope users) can rest assured that our support life isat leastas good as others.-Rich

author: agdr
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 03:53:43 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on August 18, 2017, 08:59:28 pmI didn't know R&S was privately held! Interesting. That is a whole new kettle of fish (in a good way). I've been an exec at both public and private companies, and yes definitely, the focus can be very different, especially with respect to investors/stockholders. Kind of the "new thing" here in the States the last few years has been taking public companies private (again), especially via large hedge fund buyouts, to get the thing out of the public eye and end the required public quarterly reporting nightmare, so they can move forward more nimbly.Well good for R&S!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 04:02:11 am
content: Quote from: agdr on August 19, 2017, 03:53:43 amYep - owned by the same two families for the last 80+ years.-Rich

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 07:40:49 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on August 18, 2017, 08:59:28 pmI know from my own experience that R&S really keeps even very old parts on stock, and in general even tries to support old equipment, but as I said that's in line with what other big brands offer. I also don't think this is a question of being privately held or a public company (not every public company has surrendered to the MBAs, Keysight and even more so LeCroy are very engineering-driven; on the other side, Tek is a good example of a T&M company purely driven by MBAs).The real advantage for companies being privately held shows during economic hard times like the 2008 financial crisis, as they tend to weather the storm much better than public companies who have to baby nervous shareholders. And the valuation of your company not based on rumors and expectations is generally a good thing as well.Quote from: agdr on August 19, 2017, 03:53:43 amThat's the norm for many German companies. And of those that are public companies often the majority is owned by one or two families as well.QuoteIn the US, especially the west coast, the modern general mantra for company founders says you can be either a king (i.e. you have full control over the company) or be rich (i.e. you make a lot of money from the company) but not both. So if you setup a startup and seek investment, once the company grows to a certain size usually your investors will ask you to step aside and cede control to a new CEO, and by doing that you're reaping the riches the new CEO will generate. The thinking behind this is that while an entrepreneur is usually a specialist when it comes to the specific products the company makes, he's often overwhelmed by the more mundane responsibilities that come with leading a growing business, so an 'experienced CEO' (one of those types that can easily drive down a company and still make it off with the golden parachute, someone like Carly Fiorina or Leo Apotheker) is brought in to decide the company's future path (short-term focused of course).In Germany however (although it used to be common in the US, too) it's common that company founders keep control of their business pretty much to the founder's death, and then control often goes to someone in the founder's family (i.e. sons/daughters). As the company grows, they learn how to manage their company pretty much on the job, and accept that they're not getting rich quickly (but money is usually not the reason they're in it in the first place). Which resulted in a swath of internationally renowned German companies not just R&S but also Aldi (which is now even in the US), Thyssen Krupp, Abt, Krauss-Maffei, Bosch and others. It shows that, indeed, you can be king and get rich (although it takes a lot longer).I guess the main difference is if you're in for the quick buck (in which case the US model is a better choice) or for the long-term.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2017, 03:31:02 pm
content: Crossposting from the RTB2004 thread a few issues that may not have been reported:* Protocol decoding for Parallel and Parallel Clocked is only available using the Logic Channels (not the 4 analog channels). Is this limitation necessary?* When selecting "Parallel" or "Parallel Clocked" in the "Protocol" menu then clicking on "Configuration"and "Bus Width", I haven't found a way to change the bus width using the touch screen or the web UI. It seems doable only through the "Analysis" physical knob.* User Manual ver2 p115, there is a typo "Troggering on parallel buses is not possible."

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2017, 03:24:35 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on September 05, 2017, 03:31:02 pmHi LaurentR - I've forwarded on your feedback to the team. Thanks for submitting it!-Rich

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 03:44:37 pm
content: Hi Rich,An observation on R&S sales activity. I bought and RTB2004 and love it. I'm now on the R&S mailing list and receiving the various Application Note / video link emails, this weeks was on measuring DC-DC converters using an RTO. You are generating some excellent materials thank you.I understand that the company is set up to sell mainly to corporate but forcing email sign in to get at the various resources is a real turn off, your competitor Keysight does not for example. I have skipped several assets because of this. Worse, twice now i have selected the no contact/no imminent purchase options and received follow up sales emails from Kristen anyhow.I'm not an E.E. but not just a hobby user either, at last count I had 7 pieces of HP/Agilent/Keysight on the bench to my one R&S. I'd love to make that more but the heavy handed stuff does not work in your favor.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 03:52:14 pm
content: Quote from: ruairi on September 08, 2017, 03:44:37 pmHi ruairi - I really appreciate the feedback and understand your frustration (I've had similar frustrations on other websites). It's a fine line we walk between supplying value-add content and asking for something in return (e.g. an email address). I'll definitely pass this on to our marcom team to make sure we aren't erring too much on the "we need a sign-in for everything".And if you've opted out, you shouldn't be getting contacted. If you want to PM me your contact info, I can make sure they update that so you aren't pinged again.-Rich

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:10:30 pm
content: The goodwill and publicity you get from making quality materials freely available will easily outweigh the badwill of hiding it away.What do you actually gain from making it harder to access ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:29:28 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 08, 2017, 04:10:30 pmI agree. Also the R&S website is a mess. If you click on a 'datasheet' link on an instrument page you are taken to a long list of seemingly random documents (some of the documents aren't even related to the instrument you where looking at). It is very hard to get a datasheet this way and usually I don't bother to look any further because it just takes too much time. If I click on a link which says 'datasheet' I want to see a PDF on my screen with a datasheet -nothing more nothing less-!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 04:34:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 08, 2017, 04:29:28 pmTotally agreeWe are definitely working to fix it, but not as fast as I'd like. It will get better.-Rich

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2017, 06:22:55 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 08, 2017, 04:10:30 pmThis is the crux of it. The email capture paradigm had it's day maybe 10 years ago and these days just serves to annoy, I have tried really hard to make companies I work with see this.Rich - thanks for the quick reply. Every freely available resource is an opportunity to highlight unique features on your products and to normalize your brand in the eyes of new potential clients. At very least R&S need to consider how they disseminate materials aimed at beginners and students. Emails offering sales calls are not the right approach for the next generation.Edit- One easy step for now is to properly identify people clicking through who are already on the email mailing list. If I click a custom link in an email then you know I'm already in your system and can allow me access to the content without forcing sign up or sign in.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 03:46:38 pm
content: 1. What type of filter does RTE use in its hardware anti aliasing front end? Is it butterworth or gaussian?2. What order is the anti aliasing hardware filter? Is it 4 order? 8 order??3. What is the atenuation at nyquist frequency?4. What filter type is the so called decimator hi res mode?5. What filter type is the optional 16 bit hi res mode? They say its different from the non-option one,but I cant tell what type is either of them.Hi res is usualy boxcar/rectangular window or gaussian,I want to know what type are both hi res modes.6. What filter type is the 200Mhz and 20Mhz hardware filter?7. What order is the 200Mhz and 20Mhz hardware filter?8. What type is the software bandwidth filter? I mean the filter that exist to block the user from using full bandwidth until he pays for upgrade license.9. What order is the software bandwidth filter?10. Does it use any kind of DSP correcting filters? For example phase correcting allpass filters or any kind of phase,group delay or frequency filter on top of any of the filters I already mentioned in previous questions?I have experience that when I unload avalanche of questions on someone,they are unlikely to answer them all or answer at all.I am considering buying RTE,I absolutely need every single of these questions properly and truthfully answered so I know what is the combined phase and group delay response at every particular software bandwidth and hi res setting resuling from all the filters in the scope.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2017, 04:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 10, 2017, 03:46:38 pmHi fonograph - thanks for the questions - I'll get answers for you on all of them as soon as possible and post them back up. Is there a hard deadline of when you need the response by?-Rich

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2017, 06:22:28 am
content: No,I dont need the answers fast,take your time,just please give me the answers.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:14:51 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 10, 2017, 03:46:38 pmHi fonograph - sorry it took a bit of time, but here are answers to your questions - please let me know if you need more details.-Rich***************************************1. What type of filter does RTE use in its hardware anti aliasing front end? Is it butterworth or gaussian?R&S:See 2.2. What order is the anti aliasing hardware filter? Is it 4 order? 8 order??R&S:The anti-alias filter is a 2nd order Bessel filter. (Bessel filter is that type of linear filter with a maximally flat group/phase delay). Up to 1 GHz the phase is almost perfectly linear (Deviation from linear phase +/-1 degree). Up to 1.5 GHz it's within +/-7 degrees.3. What is the atenuation at nyquist frequency?R&S:The attenuation at nyquist is -20dB4. What filter type is the so called decimator hi res mode?R&S:See 5.5. What filter type is the optional 16 bit hi res mode? They say its different from the non-option one,but I cant tell what type is either of them.Hi res is usualy boxcar/rectangular window or gaussian,I want to know what type are both hi res modes.R&S:The HD mode you refer to is now standard on the RTE1000. Different filter types are used depending on the bandwidth of the filters: For high bandwidths, a moving average filter is used. For lower bandwidths, FIR filtering is realized with symmetrical filter coefficients. The roll-off for the FIR filter is Gaussian.6. What filter type is the 200Mhz and 20Mhz hardware filter?R&S:2nd order Bessel filter. (Bessel filter is that type of linear filter with a maximally flat group/phase delay)..7. What order is the 200Mhz and 20Mhz hardware filter?R&S:2nd order Bessel filter. (Bessel filter is that type of linear filter with a maximally flat group/phase delay).8. What type is the software bandwidth filter? I mean the filter that exist to block the user from using full bandwidth until he pays for upgrade license.R&S:See 99. What order is the software bandwidth filter?R&S:This filter is also an FIR filter. The roll-off depends on the bandwidth of the instrument.10. Does it use any kind of DSP correcting filters? For example phase correcting allpass filters or any kind of phase,group delay or frequency filter on top of any of the filters I already mentioned in previous questions?R&S:The RTE has some symmetrical linear-phase correction FIR filter for some slight equalization of the magnitude of the frequency response.***************************************

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:50:47 pm
content: Wow! Thanks Rich! I was thinking you probably wont answer everything,but you did!I would like if you could provide same answers but for RTO,both the old and new one.You dont to repeat everything,just mention those questions whose answer is different from the one you gave me now for RTE.Also,I want to know what are all other differences between the new and old RTO.The newer have bigger screen and different front pannel and knobs,but what else is differet? I think the FFT runs faster on the new one?edit: I would like to separate this further into 4 categories total.The new and old RTO and 10GS/s and 20GS/s models.I have read that old RTO 10 GS/s had gaussian anti aliasing hardware filter,and the 20 GS/s had butterworth aka maximaly flat filter.The new one 20 GS/s now goes up to 6 GHz instead of 4 GHz for old one,so I am not sure what changed,I suspect the filter changed for steeper one or you started using fir filter compensation to make it flat close to nyquist.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 12:54:56 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 17, 2017, 03:50:47 pmHi fonograph,I'll get the details and come back to you (I'm assuming you don't care about the obvious things like the RTO2000 supports up to 2GSa of memory versus the RTO1000 - you are mainly looking at frontend and filtering differences - is that correct?).-Rich

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 07:51:53 pm
content: I am interested in other things too,but the thing is,if its in datasheets,then I can look that up myself without bothering you,but these filter details arent in datasheet.So if there is any significant differences then tell me,I am especialy interested on things that arent in datasheet.For example the new RTO might have faster cpu and run faster,or new fft asic or something and if its not mentioned in datasheet I would never know.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 08:17:16 pm
content: This kind of info is never in test equipment datasheets. Sometimes the user manual has more information but in many cases you are expected to use more generic literature to research how filtering and signal reconstruction is done.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:07:48 pm
content: As I read the user manual, the RTB2004 will do an FFT for the entire record for the length currently set which would be 20 Mpts for two channels from different groups or 10 Mpts for 4 channels.Is that correct? The record lengths are not powers of 2, so does it do a prime factor mixed radix FFT, round up with zero padding or round down?

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:05:26 pm
content: As I read the user manual, the RTB2004 will do an FFT for the entire record for the length currently set which would be 20 Mpts for two channels from different groups or 10 Mpts for 4 channels.Is that correct? The record lengths are not powers of 2, so does it do a prime factor mixed radix FFT, round up with zero padding or round down?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:32:51 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on October 24, 2017, 11:07:48 pmNope. The same datasheet says 128kpts max.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2017, 11:53:25 pm
content: New firmware was promised for October. May be Rich can give us an update.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 02:15:38 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on October 24, 2017, 07:51:53 pmGot it - let me see what I can find out.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 02:18:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 24, 2017, 11:32:51 pmCorrect.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 02:33:37 am
content: Quote from: casinada on October 24, 2017, 11:53:25 pmShould be out shortly! If not this week, next.-Rich

author: mike_b_
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 06:18:18 am
content: Hi Rich,First of all, thank you for spending time answering so many questions.I received my new RTB2004 a few weeks ago and I think it's really amazing. I did notice an oddity though that I wanted to ask about.I'm noticing that on certain signals at certain timesteps, the rendered waveform appears to dramatically change -- please see the attached images. In this case, at 1.9ms the signal is as it should be, but at 2ms it changes dramatically. I tested it further by manually entering in time steps, and I can get really close to the 2ms point with the correct result still produced -- 1.999ms and 2.001ms both produce the correct waveform, for instance. Do you have any idea what's going on here? Apologies if I'm making an obvious mistake -- I haven't used scopes as sophisticated as this before.It appears to be purely a rendering issue, rather than an aquisition issue -- if I one-shot the trigger, the artifact still appears at 2ms, but disappears when paused if I change the time step. It also disappears if I mess around with the memory depth.Anyway sorry for the rambling question. Apart from this weird issue I'm having a great time with the scope!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2017, 02:13:27 pm
content: Quote from: mike_b_ on October 25, 2017, 06:18:18 amHi mike_b - first, congrats on the new scope!Second, I believe the issue you are describing is a known bug that is fixed in the upcoming release. Please let me know if you still see it after the update (should be out later this week or next).-Rich

author: ruairi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 05:23:20 pm
content: Hi Rich,I got an email from the R&S mailing list today titled "New White Paper: Fundamentals of an RF Design". I nervously clicked the link and ……. it brought me straight to the white paper! No repeated sign in and no unnecessary contact!This is great, I'll read on my lunch break today.You guys are writing excellent materials, I'd include a direct link if I had it.Cheers,Ruairi

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2017, 06:06:42 pm
content: Quote from: ruairi on October 30, 2017, 05:23:20 pmNice! I'm not going to say we are perfect (because we're not), but we are trying!-Rich

author: GlennB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 09:26:25 am
content: Hi Rich,I just joined EEVblog because of your original post :-)I have three R&S questions:1. when did R&S come out with their first swept-frequency (superheterodyne) spectrum analyzer?(I know you're a 'scope guy' so maybe you have to ask around internally)(I think ca. 1968-70, but I can't find it anywhere on the net)2. Please correct me if I'm wrong...but each of the 4 input channels on my (2012) RTO 1024 has it's own 10 GS/sec ADC, correct?This is to answer a nerd argument: someone is telling me the actual sampling rate is MUCH lower, and also, that the RTO 1024 is based on a 2 GS/s Hameg design.Which sounds pretty fishy to me3. Is there any hope to get a sw update from R&S to fix thismiserableGUI?The RTO 1024 is an amazing machine but hobbled by a klunky user interface... (dare I say I'm a committed LeCroy man..? :-o):-oMany thanks in advance for your kind attention andBest Regards,Glenn B

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 05:29:46 pm
content: Quote from: GlennB on January 31, 2018, 09:26:25 amHi Glenn - thanks for joining - I think you'll find EEVBlog is a pretty great place! With respect to your questions:1. I'll have to ask2. Each RTO1000 (and RTO2000) channel has a custom R&S designed, monolithic, 10GS/s ADC. For the RTO1044/RTO2044 (4GHz) and RTO2064 (6GHz) we interleave two ADCs to give 20GS/s behind 2 channels. You are correct.3. I'm sorry you are frustrated with the UI. What firmware are you on? Are you Win7 or XP? We've made a lot of updates to the UI over time based on user feedback so it may be that there are some changes you haven't seen yet.-Rich

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 05:14:24 pm
content: Rich,I've been using the UART decode quit a bit recently and came across a couple of things:1) The Bus Table status does is not saved across reboots. When the scope is started it always thinks that the bus table was last in the off mode. It also does not remember the location/size of the table.2) It would be a big help if the pattern trigger did not have to be at a fixed position in the frame, often you know the data you're looking for but not the position. The single character trigger works to search anywhere in the data stream but it would be great if the pattern trigger would also.Thanks,

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 06:44:49 pm
content: Quote from: kwass on February 03, 2018, 05:14:24 pmHi Katie,Thanks - I'll pass these on.-Rich

author: pulsewidthmodul
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 12:52:15 am
content: Hi,i just received my RTB2002 and i'm playing around with it to learn how to use it.With the Videotrigger Option i may found a bug.Trigger set to Video 720p, feeding a 720p Signal the scope triggers on falling edge of the Tri-Level Sync pulse, aacording to SMPTE 240M standard the trigger should be where the negative (-300mV) pulse goes to positive (+300mV.)Or is it just me doing something wrong?Thanks a lotP

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2018, 10:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: pulsewidthmodul on February 05, 2018, 12:52:15 amHi - yes, it does appear to be a bug with the polarity. R&D will get it fixed up. Thanks.-Rich

author: Ghislain
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2018, 10:24:36 am
content: Hi Rich,Any new firmware updates for the RTB2000 series on the horizon?

author: pulsewidthmodul
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 21, 2018, 09:14:32 pm
content: Quote from: Ghislain on February 10, 2018, 10:24:36 amanything new on this?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2018, 04:54:47 pm
content: Quote from: pulsewidthmodul on March 21, 2018, 09:14:32 pmI'm expecting an update for the 2000/3000/4000 in late April to early May.-Rich

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2018, 06:27:17 am
content: Are there student discounts for the RTB2004 available in Germany? I'm monitoring the bargain shop, but who knows when something will appear there.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2018, 02:37:02 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on May 13, 2018, 06:27:17 amHi KaneTW - unfortunately, this isn't my area of expertise as I don't do anything outside of the US and CanadaHaving said that, I imagine there is something and would encourage you to ping your local distributor.Sorry I wasn't more help.-Rich

author: nugglix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2018, 05:21:11 am
content: Quote from: KaneTW on May 13, 2018, 06:27:17 amSome distributors do have special offers.Example:http://www.datatec.de/shop/artikelpdf/sonderposten_d.pdfI'm not affiliated with them by any means.But bought a scope there.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 12:07:28 pm
content: Hi Everyone,The new firmware for the 2000/3000/4000 has released (you've probably already seen the 2000 firmware that came out about a week ago, but just in case):RTB2000:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/rtb2000/RTM3000:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/rtm3000/RTA4000:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/firmware/rta4000/Enjoy!Rich

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 06:39:48 pm
content: Hi Rich,do you know when the User Manual will get updated to reflect the firmware additions?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2018, 07:38:33 pm
content: Minor bug on RTM3004 - not sure if it is new in the new FW, not tested on RTB2000If you have UART TX and RX decode, then go to zoomed mode, the TX and RX traces overlap ( does it regardless of decode trace height)

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 06, 2018, 06:39:10 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on June 05, 2018, 12:07:28 pmRich, is there somewhere we can subscribe to notifications of firmware or errata? Other than this thread I mean.I had a look around the website, but didn't find a place to register for this. I am starting from the R&S AU website... but this is easy on Keysight and Rigol websites!

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:33:29 am
content: Hi RichThe new firmware worked so far and added some nice additions, thank you.I would have some additional small feature requests:On the decoder side:1. RS422/485 decoding options2. Ability to export the time difference between packages on the protocol list to cvs as well3. Ability to get the protocol list data via browser / scpi to the pcOn the analog side1. Bode plotting for mag/phase with the integrated sig. gen. Carrying a pc to do it in software is a pain.Thank you so much!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 09:39:51 am
content: Quote from: sixtimesseven on June 13, 2018, 09:33:29 amThis can be done using UART decode in the vast majority of situations. If your data is so noisy that you really need the differential input then you probably have bigger problems than protocol decoding.

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 10:04:19 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 13, 2018, 09:39:51 amHi MikeYes this is true. However we often have rather long and noisy RS422 connections which I would like to probe without carrying my converter with me.Looking into the options I think all it would take is the option to decode on top of the math channel.

author: MikeP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 11:49:10 am
content: Rich.In the great RTM3004 review, nctnico mentioned the Autoscale function as requiring refinement. This is good feature, thanks. Unfortunately, this function turns off the REF function. And the button is not located in the most convenient way. Often Instead the channel menu, I enable the Autoscale. Is it possible to swap the Autoscale button and the Probe button?Thanks.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 02:26:18 pm
content: Quote from: sixtimesseven on June 13, 2018, 09:33:29 amThanks - this is good feedback. It looks like you may have already answered one of my questions on the 422/485 - basically you'd like to be able to use a math function to subtract two channels and then decode on that function? Is that correct?-Rich

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 03:17:43 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on June 13, 2018, 02:26:18 pmYes, that would be great!

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 03:36:30 pm
content: Rich, I found a new reference to option R&S RTB-K18 "spectrum analysis". Are new options coming?

author: TimNJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 03:55:08 pm
content: *I'm leaving this comment for Rich and the folks at R&S. I do not want to take over this thread, so please don't respond unless you think you really need to.*Hi Rich,This is not a comment about a specific product, but rather a general observation based on my observations/experiences. In fact, this is more of a comment directed at the old-school oscilloscope players (R&S, Tek, Keysight). I won't be offended if you don't respond!First, I love the industrial design of R&S scopes. Few competitors make a scope as beautiful as an R&S. Equally as good is the design of the software interface. From the colors, to the controls, to the layout, it is obvious that the design was taken seriously. We have an R&S HMS-X spectrum analyzer at work, and it is truly a joy to use. We bought that SA because it had a special analysis option we needed. (The company I work for designs and manufactures switch-mode power supplies.)The "problem" I see with R&S scopes (from the perspective of a company purchasing equipment) is that R&S scopes are a poor valueon paper. For instance, when I was hired, the company got me a Siglent SDS-2104X. Most recently, we bought a Rigol DS-1104Z for a new engineer. We didn't even think to consider an R&S product (or Tektronix or Keysight for that matter).Take the R&S RTC1000, for instance. It is a beautiful scope with good implementation of many features. But, it's way more expensive than competitor products with similar data sheet specs. It's incredibly hard for a company to justify that purchase. The company I work for used to be a loyal Tektronix company, but as soon as the cheap Chinese scopes came around, they immediately threw away that allegiance and sprung for the inexpensive offerings.I referenced this idea in another thread I started..but (in my experience) it's really hard to sell people (and management) on non-quantifiable advantages like a good user interface.RTC1000 is a good try at competing in the "general-purpose" scope market but I just don't see how R&S can expect to sell many of them. I think some of the other new R&S scopes are truly quite innovative and easier for people to justify the cost. But at the same time, when it's other people's money being spent, sometimes the "it's easier to use" factor is a hard sell.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:30:21 pm
content: Quote from: sixtimesseven on June 13, 2018, 03:36:30 pmInteresting catch. It showed up in the v05 of the manual (Jan 18) and is still there in the new v06. It is not mentioned anywhere else. Since it is only in the remote control commands section and doesn't have an actual user section, I can only assume it's a copy/paste mistake from the RTA/RTM manualsThat option is officially available in most R&S scopes, old and new, except for the RTB2000, as shown here:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/sw_rtx-k18-productstartpage_63493-504512.html

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 05:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2018, 03:55:08 pmHi TimNJ - thanks for the note. I'm happy to respond with my own personal thoughts (not representing R&S). And rest assured, TONS of R&S employees from R&D to marketing to sales read this blog, so your comments will be well heard.First, thanks for the nice comments on our scopes. As you can imagine they are the pride and joy of a lot of people at R&S, just like any project is for an engineer at any company. One thing that I think is pretty cool about R&S versus some other companies is our designers get a LOT of leeway when working on their projects. We're still very much an engineering-first culture, not driven by "bean counters".Second - I think you are right, there are a lot of great scopes available today, whether it be from the old-school players or more recent entries. I think every company will have different business plans - some will try to be cost leaders, others will take a differentiation strategy. For us, I see us more in the differentiation path - the cool thing about this is it allows us to bring new and innovative capabilities to the market - things like 10-bit ADCs in (relatively) low cost scopes. And what we'll see over time is there are some "fast followers" who will likely copy those innovations and bring them to market at much lower costs. A win-win for consumers. And still positive for us because we sell a lot of scopes during that time where we have the only option on the market (sort of why you all bought the HMS-X - it had something you needed and could only get from us). The other benefit is if every player were a "cost leader" player, it would be great for a year or two - prices would be super cheap! But innovation would dry up. In the long run, IMHO it's a positive for a market to have both.-Rich

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2018, 07:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on June 13, 2018, 05:30:21 pmThe option is listed as RTBK-18 - The other scopes have all their own numbers, eg RTM K-18 ...I think it would make a lot of sense for them to sell more features down the road. The appstore way ...

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 09:53:37 am
content: Some more ideas:1. Ability to measure the phase between the signal generator output and the analog inputs2. Regarding the documentation, which is excellent otherwise - A changelog listing relevant changes in the firmwareAnd a question:I'm trying to detect clipping and I'm reading the status register via: "STATus:QUEStionable:ADCState:CONDition?"Unfortunately this returns always 0 indicating no clipping while the scope's clipping indication is on on all channels?Works, just a stupid typo.Thank you so much!

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2018, 06:46:08 pm
content: the variable C in the LARU have a stamp GEALTERT means aged. Sept. 31, 1962Now that is real aged ... and still exactly.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 04:48:23 pm
content: Just found something odd on RTM3000 - capturing a reference waveform in spectrum mode doesn't behave as expected - it has an offset from the live waveform

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2018, 06:49:43 pm
content: Thanks Mike - I'll submit for fix.-Rich

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2018, 05:43:02 pm
content: Another missing feature would be the ability to save Bus Table and decoded data via the browser based "save"

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 05:15:56 pm
content: Hey RichI don't know if it is a bug or if I'm just too dense.I'm trying to decode a 12bit wide clocked parallel bus (Data: D0-D11, Clock: D12). And I have two issues:1. The Protocol decoder tries to decode and displays packages even while the clock is not changing2. The Bus Table doesn't seem to have a lot in it. Can't I have one 12bit value per package?UPDATE:I played around with the threshold level and hysteresis but no luck. Then I did a factory reset and problem number one has now disappeared(?)In Parallel mode I get a nice bus table and the data looks similar to what I'm hoping to get, but obviously I do not get a frame when the data isn't changing. In P. Clocked decode I get a huge string of numbers without any separation in the bus table. I could pick that apart with a script but it is kind of annoying and I would really like to have a way around that.Thank you so muchEdit: Added channel description, update, some gramar

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2018, 05:22:38 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 15, 2018, 04:48:23 pmThis appears to only be an issue when the reference position is set to other than "middle"

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 04:35:54 pm
content: This seems obvious and has to be asked already. But the "Search" does not show a result, so i'll ask anyway.I today unpacked my RTB 2004 and it seems as if there are no low impeadance ground leads included in the "RT-ZP03" Probe package. I checked the "included in delivery" list and there is nothing listed beside some silly plugs. That sure is a bad joke, is it? How am i supposed measure anything else than dc with that 10cm inductance?

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 05:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on July 03, 2018, 04:35:54 pmI bought some probe accessory kits to remedy that. It does feel like a huge miss but I'm guessing the probe oem just doesn't have a package like that for those probes.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 05:51:50 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on July 03, 2018, 05:29:22 pmSo you're saying you payed 6k for a scope and willingly accepted to have to buy an accessory kit to be able to make basic measurements?That is ridiculous! This ticks me really off, i can't be the only one who finds this absolutely crazy.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 06:12:19 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on July 03, 2018, 05:51:50 pmWell I got a launch unit so I didn't pay that price but it was never listed as having them included. So even though a 1054z comes with them I knew I'd have to source my own. They should have been included though, I agree.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 06:39:39 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on July 03, 2018, 04:35:54 pmTo be honest, I can’t even recall if mine came with some. Just do what many do and spend 30 seconds to make one using $0.05 of wire. I’ve never been able to keep track of those things anyways. FFS it’s just a small coil of wire..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 06:46:35 pm
content: I agree. I usually don't even bother looking for the spring clip. Winding the ground wire over the probe already gives a large reduction in excess noise.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 06:57:49 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on July 03, 2018, 04:35:54 pmThe RT-ZP10 probes that come with the RTM3004 definitely have them.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 07:03:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 03, 2018, 06:46:35 pmQuote from: mtdoc on July 03, 2018, 06:39:39 pmYou both simply don't get the point here. I sure am able to botch it up myself but that shouldn't be necessary. This is a simple sub cent part that makes my life a lot easier. There is no sane reason to not include it.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2018, 07:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 03, 2018, 06:39:39 pmI can keep track of them fine and I prefer a proper snug spring clip I can R&I quickly as opposed to stripping some wire every time I need a low inductance ground lead.

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 12:50:58 pm
content: Yeah, I agree that R&S should have put them into the package. They seem to be in the ZP05 probe package, but not in the standard ZP03 ... And I don't see how to order them seperatly

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 02:31:43 pm
content: That kind of sucks, especially for the money a RTB2004 costs.Accessory package on the ZP10 seems better, too:E:http://www.datatec.de/RS-RT-ZA1-Zubehoer-Oszilloskop-Probe.htmhttp://www.datatec.de/RS-RT-ZA4-Zubehoer-Oszilloskop-Probe.htmhttp://www.datatec.de/RS-RT-ZA5-Zubehoer-Oszilloskop-Probe.htm

author: sixtimesseven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 03:07:21 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on July 04, 2018, 02:31:43 pmThe ZP10 Probe is about 375 Euro:http://www.datatec.de/Oszilloskop-Tastkopf-Passiv-RT-ZP10.htmThe accesoire set costs 165 Euro:http://www.datatec.de/RS-RT-ZA1-Zubehoer-Oszilloskop-Probe.htmSo ground spring probes cost as much as the base modelAnd there seems to be no option for the ZP03, still a 100 Euro list price probeThe ZP03 even has the ring to fit a spring, but there is nothing from R&S, which is sad really. Makes the RTB200x set about a 10MHz kind of deal.However, as I said there is bare metal exposed at the front. The diameter is 4.85mm which means a 4.5mm spring should fit.https://au.rs-online.com/web/c/test-measurement/oscilloscopes-accessories/oscilloscope-probe-accessories/Alternative would be the ProbeMaster springs for 2.90$ a pice:http://probemaster.com/4983hg-high-frequency-ground/They have more accesoire which seems to fit...Edit: Probemaster springs...

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 03:17:58 pm
content: I've checkedhttps://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/r/rt_zp/Manual_RT-ZP10_en.pdfandprobe is pretty bare-bones + that accessory package/clips/etc for $waytoomuch.Silly.

author: gsocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 04:49:21 pm
content: You might also try PMKhttp://www.pmk.de/. At least the probes that came with my Hameg/R&S scopes (HMO, now RTO) are rebranded PMK probes. They don't seem to be widely available in the US, but might be easier to find in Europe. If they are rebranded PMK probes, you can probably get the OEM accesories cheaper through one of their distributors.Pico appears to use their 2.5mm probes as well, and so sells some of the accessory kits. Over here, I can buy the Picotech version of the accesories for much less than the R&S versions - a USD 58 accesory kit has almost everything the R&S kit does except for the replacement spring tips. Even adding those, it's still cheaper than R&S.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 04:55:31 pm
content: A number of other brands sell probes from the same OEM as the ZP03, with compatible accessories. I believe this is OEM ishttp://www.hktexas.hk/en/index.htmlRS used to sell the Lecroy version of the accessory kit for a _very_ low price, but unfortunately it has since gone up by ~8.5x! See here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1200931/#msg1200931(pic in my post is accurate as to what I got, RS pic is missing stuff)

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 05:34:19 pm
content: ZP10 is definitely as rebranded PMK 855-711-A01, but ZP03 is a different OEM.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 05:44:44 pm
content: Thanks for all the good ideas on how to second source a low impedance ground clip.I am though stunned how a name brand Scope Manufacturer cripples it's scopes by removing a Part that was essential in probing for many decades. Why should one keep buying pricy name brand stuff if the "Stuff" cannot provide a basic functionality. The whole point of buying it is that you can be sure "it works". Or at least that is the way it was and should be.Yes i can make my own, yes i can buy one but then there is no point in spending 5k€ for a scope in the first place. I can get a Scope that doesn't work for much less. And yes it is that critical. Getting a 200MHz Scope without a proper possibility to ground the Probe means the damned thing doesn't work as described. Why? Well a quite good summary can be found here:http://teledynelecroy.com/doc/passive-probe-ground-lead-effectsThe thing that gets me most is that they seem to get away with that, and that i'm seeem to be one of the fews that actually do care.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:02:24 pm
content: Cripples the scope!!! My god the horror, and all just to save a few cents. R&S is the worst company ever!Sure, (if this is not just a one off error) they probably should include them, if for no other reason than to keep customers like you happy.I’m sure it wasn’t a cost cutting measure since these things surely cost them pennies. Most likely it was a trivial oversight or they assumed people buying such a scope would know they can make their own, better, and custom to the job at hand, in less than a minute.I have no idea why anyone would go to effort to source and buy something that can be made so easily and cheaply.

author: Fred27
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:03:50 pm
content: Are you sure it's deliberately not included rather than just missing from your one?

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:07:42 pm
content: My RTB2004 should arrive in a few days, so I'll check. The OEM does not seem to include it.E: actually, they do:

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:22:18 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on July 04, 2018, 05:44:44 pmIt is pretty well known that scopes comes with the crappiest probes. Therefore I never use the probes which come with a scope but I use the good ones I already have.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:38:49 pm
content: It's well-known, but that doesn't mean it should be acceptable.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 06:59:05 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on July 04, 2018, 06:38:49 pmWhy wouldn't it be acceptable? Why pay for expensive probes you don't need? If you want a particular type of probes then just order them along with the oscilloscope.If R&S would include some higher end probes people will start to complain the base price is too high compared to the competition and also about getting extra expensive probes they don't need/want.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2018, 08:18:44 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 04, 2018, 06:59:05 pmI wonder why they include them anyways. Anyone who uses such a scope can build their own in under 10 min...custom

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 01:41:57 pm
content: Can confirm that they don't include the ground spring.

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2018, 03:50:14 pm
content: My RTB-2004 didn't come with the springs but I didn't loose my sleep over it.Grab a piece of copper wire and make one in no time. you can even solder it to the pcb and leave it there

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2018, 05:42:06 pm
content: Hi Everyone - sorry for my tardiness in jumping in here! I'm on vacation this week and haven't been near my PC much. Munich did see the discussion here though and they will work with manufacturing to start including the ground spring with future RTB2000s. They appreciate the feedback!-Rich

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2018, 07:53:18 am
content: Hi Rich,any reason the latests RTB2000 firmware has been removed? Website is back to showing v.2.0.0/k

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2018, 02:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on July 08, 2018, 07:53:18 amI've asked what is happening. It still shows on some of the webpages, but not all of them, which makes me think it is a web issue (plus no one said they were going to pull it), but I've asked to make sure and I'll update everyone.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 02:09:46 pm
content: Update on the firmware missing issue - I just got a reply this morning too. New version is coming out - looks like there was a small tweak to the self-alignment that was made, mainly for production. There were also a few bug fixes slipped in:Version FunctionV02.121 Solved: Locked pattern generator menu when 'Audio - IS' or 'Audio - TDM' selected.The Audio items were removed in the pattern generator menu.V02.121 Solved: Front panel firmware update to version did not work on rare devices.V02.121 Solved: Wrong spectrum section copied to reference waveform when trigger reference pointwas not set to center.V02.121 Solved: Connection via USB-TMC: Read function 'viReadSTB' does not answer.It should be on the web shortly, but in the meantime, here is a direct link you can use:http://www.rohde-schwarz.com/www/FileTran.nsf/alias/RTB_2_121?OpenDocument-Rich

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2018, 08:17:38 pm
content: Not a scope related question but still very much R&S related... Perhaps there's a chance this is easy for you to unearth?I have a SMIQ06L inbound. Not SMIQ06B, not even the SMIQ06ATE which isn't documented either but at least it ismentionedsomewhere (pretty much a 06B but without screen if I understand correctly...). The 06L doesn't have a screen either, or so it would seem, but other than that? Your guess is as good as mine.Or rather: I hope your guess is a bit *better* than mine.Pretty please?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2018, 04:23:03 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on July 12, 2018, 08:17:38 pmWow - these seem to be a pretty rare item - definitely hard to find info, but the good news is it seems to be very closely related to the SMIQ06B. Here's what I found:The SMIQ06L is a special variation of SMIQ. There are no options installed beside the B50 and B19 (rear connectors). The SMIQ can only be operated by remote, because there is no display. You have also no BNC connectors beside Trigger, Blank, I,Q, Powerramp and Ref. The specifications are the same as for SMIQ06B and the mentioned BNC connectors.Hope this helps!Rich

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2018, 07:32:33 am
content: It does. Gotta say: impressive response time!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2018, 08:14:55 am
content: Quote from: TimNJ on June 13, 2018, 03:55:08 pmI absolutely agree. Company purchases happen very short sighted, and they typically look at two values, when purchasing a scope. MHz printed on the front and Price tag. In every single company I worked for the last decade had a Tek. TDS2000 scope in the office. They are terrible and every engineer hates working with them. But Tek said it is 200 MHz 4 channel and about 2000 EUR, so they got the sale. It is really sad. Also, I have the problem with the pricing of the equipment, and options. It is OK to leave out stuff from the base model, and charge money for it. But it is NOT OK to charge 599 EUR for serial decoding, when you buy an MSO. That should be standard. Flexray, CAN, JESD and other interfaces, for sure, charge money on them. But UART? Really?Also, if there is a need to buy an option, it should be very simple to do this. Click buy on a website of an authorized seller, and receive stuff in your mailbox, and you can measure. A mid level manager can sign a PO up to (typical) 500 EUR. If you have to ask a quote for an option, and you say the option is 501 EUR, then it goes to purchasing department, they spend a few days answering emails, it is to expensive to get the signature of middle manager, so it goes to Vice President of bean counting, who sits a few days on it, requests a cost/benefit analysis from the middle manager.Meanwhile you just wanted to measure a signal on the board. Now, because the deadline was last week.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2018, 08:21:45 am
content: Funny story: I was in an R&D lab in Shenzen earlier this year. On their benches they had LeCroy and Keysight scopes. The Rigols were in the closet. Literally.Sad day when the Chinese recognise quality and we don't...

author: glowman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 05:54:24 am
content: See... Serious engineers do not want to deal with instabilities, and reliability issues. R&S really need to be serious about making their scopes well. Assuming hardware wise scopes are more or less similar (except for R&S custom asic), they should do "very" well in their firmware to set them apart from cheap Chinese counterparts. Tek, Lecroy and Keysight had proven themselves to be trustworthy brands so I really hope R&S has that goal as well for their scopes line.Hardware wise, they have to be very careful in choosing OEMs who can provide the level of quality. 1 of 4 probes of my RTB2004 has loose connection on the x1x10 switch. These small quirks could really affect the overall reputation of R&S.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 08:11:02 am
content: Quote from: glowman on July 14, 2018, 05:54:24 amI agree. Still R&S made it very hard for themselves by putting so many functions in the RTB2000 and RTM3000 and by organising the firmware the way they did. The end result is good but it takes a lot of work.QuoteYou are not supposed to use the probes which come with a scope. I have an RTM3004 on my bench but I'm going to buy a bunch of Testec probes for it so I can mix & match the accessoires between probes. Last week I misplaced one of the spring-hooks for the probes which came with the RTM3004 and I couldn't use the ones I have sitting in my accessoires tray.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 10:45:20 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on July 13, 2018, 08:21:45 amChinese suffer from brand snobbery even more than the rest of us.It is a sad day when brand worship replaces reality. Rigols actually have EXCELLENT quality. They don't have advanced capabilities and no refinement.R&S has appalling number of bugs on 2000, 3000, and 4000 series. They released totally experimental platform. If they live up to the name, they will fix them and it will make for excellent instruments.But at this pace, it'll take years... I waited for a 3000 series since last year... Not impressed so far..If you want stable scope, Keysight is the way to go. And that is also because it is a 10 years old platform (and now outdated), that has been debugged all this time.Most professionals use Keysight for that reason. Also LeCroy is very stable and has advanced capabilities.And also: Segmented memory, I2C, SPI, UART, CAN are supposed to be included in basic scope... Scope is useless without it. Why would I buy a scope for twice the money, if it can't do basic things, 500 USD scopes can... All of the nice things that R&S new platform can do are useless if I can't use it. This is not only R&S problem. Keysight and Lecroy are also stupid like that.If I bought a scope that has no capabilities (because I didn't pay 2500€ additionally to unlock them) than I might as well just buy Rigol, Siglent or GW Instek for much less money and have the same results...Oh, wait, but NOO, they have those capabilities.. So they are better than R&S. And not only on paper. Even when implementation is less than stelar, you have it... You can do at least something.I really hope new Rigol DS/MSO7000 shows to be decent performer... They show an app bundle to be 1500€, R&S is 2500€ ... Basic scopes are not very inexpensive but give them time..

author: sstepane
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 11:55:13 am
content: Hi,I have some practical question - what software (better to be free) can be used to analyse RTB stored waveforms? I see RSCommander software from R&S, but it has some very limited analysing abilities for traces (no abilities at all, except for Y-setup).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 03:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on July 14, 2018, 11:55:13 amThat depends on what you want to analyse exactly. I've read CSV files produced by an RTM3004 into GNU Octave directly for analysis. In general you should forget about free software provided by the manufacturers. This usually is written by an intern and it can't do anything serious.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 04:47:21 pm
content: The RTB2K datasheet says that the input impedance of the scope is 9 pF ± 2 pF.This is seems outside of the common compensation range of most passive probes on the market (typically 10-20 pF). Am I confused about the specs or this means only very select probes will be able to compensate properly?

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 05:13:58 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on July 14, 2018, 04:47:21 pmInput capacitance at the oscilloscope limits probe bandwidth so a model which supports up to 300MHz will have a lower input capacitance than a model which only supports up to 100MHz. Higher bandwidth passives probes have a lower capacitance compensation range.This *is* annoying though if you are expecting to be able to use inexpensive 100MHz passive probes.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 05:29:39 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on July 14, 2018, 11:55:13 amI guess it would depend on what you want do with the data. There are numerous software packages that can display and analyze CSV files. As far a “free”goes, there’s the spreadsheet programs included in Libre Office, Open Office, and others. For more science/ engineering /computational focus there’s Octave and SciLab. I’ve used Scilab and it works well as a free alternative to Matlab. I’m sure Octave is good too. For just displaying the waveforms, there are dozens of free programs that will do that for CSV files. Just google “free cvs file graphing software”.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 05:45:10 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 14, 2018, 05:13:58 pmThanks. Actually, it is the opposite. I was looking at the small 500MHz probes. The 3.5mm Tek P6139A / Caltest CT3290 (10-20pF) and the 2.5mm Keysight/Testec (also 10-20pF).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 06:49:43 pm
content: Quote from: sstepane on July 14, 2018, 11:55:13 amOctave and Scilab...

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 08:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on July 14, 2018, 05:45:10 pmThe input capacitance of the Tek P6139A and Caltest CT3290RA is 8pF not 10-20. Both have compensation ranges of 8-18pF.I don't now what Keysight/Testec probe you are looking at but for the reasons David Hess explains, I'd be surprised if any 500MHz probe has an input capacitance of 10-20 pF.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 09:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 14, 2018, 08:10:59 pmInterestingly the RTM3004 (500 MHz 1Mh Ohm inputs) has a capacitance of 14pf so it caters for most probes. When dealing with high-Z probes the input capacitance doesn't matter much because it becomes part of the capacitive divider anway. It also shows that the probe itself will have a very high loading of the signal. I never use high-Z probes on signals over 100MHz because the signal will be loaded way too much to make a sensible measurement.

author: MikeP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 09:25:08 pm
content: Quote from: glowman on July 14, 2018, 05:54:24 am+1. Moreover, one of the probes is shorter by almost one centimeter. Once I was very puzzled.

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 10:53:29 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 14, 2018, 08:10:59 pmStrangely, Tek quotes 8-18pF while Cal Test quotes 10-20 (that's where I got my original number from).Also, for the Keysght/Testec probe, I am thinking of the N2873A. It claims 10-25 pF on the Keysight datasheethttps://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5990-3930EN.pdf?id=1711400What I believe is the same probe (Testec 12070RA/TT-HF 612 or RS Pro RS-HF 612RA) is quoted by Testec and RS-Pro as 10-20pFhttp://cdn-reichelt.de/documents/datenblatt/D100/TT_HF_612.pdfIt also looks the same (in black) as the Lecroy PP023, also quoted as 10-20pFNot 100% sure if it's also the R&S ZP10.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 10:59:13 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on July 14, 2018, 10:53:29 pmLook at the P6139 manual and CT3290RA datsheet. Both are easily found online and both say 8pF

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 11:05:34 pm
content: Probe compensation specifications are not rigorous. I was able to go through my cheap 100MHz probes which have a specified compensation range of 10 to 35 picofarads and find a pair which would work with 47 picofarad inputs. None of my 250MHz probes could do this though.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 08:46:14 am
content: There is discrepancy about specs in documentation.In datasheet it says: "Input impedance R&S®RTB2002, R&S®RTB2004 1 MΩ ± 2 % with 9 pF ± 2 pF (meas.)" ,but in brochure it says "Input impedance 1 MΩ ± 2% with 19 pF ± 2 pF (meas.)"Maybe a clarification by R&S ??

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 08:48:50 am
content: 19pf seems more likely so I guess the 9pf number is a typo.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 09:55:52 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 14, 2018, 10:45:20 amI'd be very amazed if the Rigol 7000 series is anywhere near the level of the R&S RTM3000 series at the introduction. However up to 200MHz there are more economic choices and the advantage of buying Lecroy, Keysight, R&S or Tektronix is minimal at best.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 10:07:33 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 15, 2018, 08:48:50 amI agree , but it's not a guessing contest. Datasheet has to be fixed.. For German prices I want German quality. No "Pluses" allowed..If they want to justify high prices and their noble reputation then they are held up to a higher standards..If not, then what is the difference to the Chinese ? Except Chinese charging much less?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 10:13:40 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 15, 2018, 09:55:52 amI actually think Rigol will give it's best to make it as good as possible. And R&S is not so good, firmware is still in flux.. Even with features..As for what is good deal , full bundle in RIGOL is 1500€, a 1000€ less than others you mentioned. Their base prices are not so small, but they are free to adjust those..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 10:22:35 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on July 15, 2018, 10:13:40 am1000€ on 10000€ is 10%. Is 10% cheaper worth the risk you get stuck with a lemon? At least the A-brands make an effort to fix the bugs in a timely manner. Still if a piece of equipment doesn't work the way you need it to work out-of-the-box the best course of action is to return it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 12:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 15, 2018, 10:22:35 amFor 200 MHz 4ch difference is 4500€ to 6700€ (DS7024+bnd vs R&S RTM3004 +BND) That is 50%.If you want to buy older model LeCroyWS3024 (not Z, new one) there is a limited time bundle where you get 4ch/200MHz +budle for 4200€.That one is a good deal. But if Rigol proves to be decent quality, it is a much more powerful scope than old WS3024.Cheaper 200MHz scopes are not in that class. Only one that comes close is GW Instek. That is a viable option.New R&S 2000/3000/4000 are new platform, with GUI that is so much more modern than Keysight one. I like them in general. I like R&S in general.Their pricing is not attractive though, even compared to Keysight, that shows signs of adjusting prices lately... Keysight are sorely in need of a new generation of scopes, and if they don't have one ready to release, they will have to decrease prices to buy time...Market is changing. They will HAVE to start giving basic bundles included in base price. They will have to adjust options prices. It's just nobody wants to be the first one to blink while playing chicken. But, if Chinese make a first move, they might start grabbing market share.We'll see. Interesting times.Regards,

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 07:17:29 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on July 14, 2018, 04:47:21 pmThe discussion here had me curios, so I did some testing:I meausured the input capacitance of my RTB2004 with my DE-5000 LCR meter and got 10pF.I was easily able to properly compensate multiple oscilloscope probes I have laying around including:Tek p6106, p6136 and p6137 probes and several different cheap chinese probes I had laying around including the ubiquitous p6100.All had no problem being adjusted to proper compensation.Interestingly, the 300 MHz RT-ZP03 probes supplied with the scope have a specified input capacitance of 12pF but there is no compensation range specified on the datasheet.So as David Hess says, probe compensation specs are not rigorous.Any of the probes you're looking at will work fine the the RTB2004.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 08:55:47 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on July 15, 2018, 07:17:29 pmThat's a good work! Thanks for that, now we know. So it is 9pF...

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 09:03:01 pm
content: Lower oscilloscope input capacitance has obvious advantages but it also comes at a price. The smaller gate geometry FETs needed have higher noise and the lower capacitance also makes input protection circuits more difficult. Some active probes leave out input protection entirely in the quest for the lowest possible input capacitance but they are very easily damaged by ESD.10 picofarads for a 300 MHz input strikes me as a little extreme but maybe Rohde & Schwarz is reusing the input circuits from their 500 MHz instruments or wants to share probes with them.Such a low input capacitance does make probe design easier though.One thing I miss on newer oscilloscopes is being able to adjust the input capacitance so I can swap probes around without adjusting compensation.

author: glowman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2018, 03:42:45 am
content: Just checked the firmware page for RTB2000 minutes ago and found out the new 2.121 is now there. However, the release notes, etc. has 2.101 as the label although upon checking the release note, it is the new 2.121.There is really something wrong with these people... If they are that careless, what can you expect with regards to the quality of their products in general. No wonder you could easily find bugs. Seems like they never do debugging and hassle their users to find them. I was tempted to ask... is this R&S Germany?Whether its the fault of their web administrator or the firmware engineers, it affects R&S as a whole. Kindly please get your act together.PS. If you refresh the page several times, firmware 2.000 may appear but, if you're lucky to see the 2.101, it's the 2.121... funny.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2018, 06:09:54 am
content: @glowman,be patient, give them a chance to make it a good work and product; they work on it.(There are other products from other big companies, they annoys me more, in the moment.)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2018, 09:45:53 am
content: Quote from: glowman on July 16, 2018, 03:42:45 amI suspect this is Cloudflare messing things up in combination with the wrong caching settings on the web server. Removing something from internet can be hard especially with caching web proxies in between.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2018, 03:59:04 pm
content: Hello again,when i have connected both Logig Probes (RT-ZL03) to my DUT, and are powering the scope up after powering the DUT, the Logic probes will not turn on at all or just one of the two and i can't make them. If i power the scope first it's all fine, both probes turn on, both probes are measuring fine. Whats the cause of this? It is quite anoing.Every probe head has its own ground connection per testpoint (16 in sum), i am using Firmware 2.000 and the scope is powered via an isolation transformer.Edit: Scratch that. The adapter i used to quick connect the head was the culprit. Completely my fault.

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 08:30:06 pm
content: I just treated myself with a nice RTB2004 bought from Farnell Sweden. What was not so nice that the scope that turned up at my doorstep was a used one. It had been sold to some customer in France in April that had RMA'd it back then.The lazyass guys at Farnell didn't even bother to factory reset the unit so it was set to French language, and they didn't even remove the RMA paper from inside the box with all the previous customers info.Tomorrow I'll make some noise about this, I really can't accept to pay full for an used device that's not even refurbished properly.One thing that I was thinking of as well is the demo licenses. Most scopes today have some time-based licenses to test out all fancy add-on features. Should this scope have them as well? In the licenses settings all three sections was empty.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2018, 08:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: matseng on July 23, 2018, 08:30:06 pmYou'd have to wonder why test equipment specialists are not the only outlets for a unit that isn't entry level.Sounds like the previous owner did what he needed to with it and used up all the licensing and then just returned it saying 'this is no good !'.Wonder if he's ordered another one planning to do the same scam ?Resetting to factory is not hard....if you know how.Restoring trial licenses is entirely another thing !Unless a substantial discount is forthcoming, send it back !

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 11:08:48 am
content: Quote from: tautech on July 23, 2018, 08:55:14 pmBut that does not work. R&S license keys are not transferable, bound to serial number of one scope. You don't become second ones for an other scope, before you register them. Without online registering to your scope, where you get the real installable codes for your only scope, you can't use them. If you lose these, you're out of luck!

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 12:40:32 pm
content: But, should there be trial licence codes included with the scope or not?

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 01:12:15 pm
content: Well, the issue got resolved after a nice call to Farnell. They were more than happy to immediately send me a brand new scope and have UPS come and pick the other one up. That's really good level of service.

author: rosin232
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 10:26:53 pm
content: Hi RichI'm looking at RTO series scopes and was curious what are the real differences between RTO1000 and RTO2000?From what I seen online RTO2000 have:AWG optionUSB3 portsWindows 7 ( RTO1000 can be upgraded to Win7 )Thanks!

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:06:18 pm
content: Hi Rich,I saw this suggestion in the Siglent SDS1x04X-E thread, and agreed with tautech that it was a rather good idea, so thought I'd post it here in-case there's interest from R&S:Quote from: tautech on July 31, 2018, 07:38:04 amThis would be especially handy with the RTx2/3/4000 series that have the knobs lit with the current channel (and it could help reduce the impact of the 4-measurement-limit on the RTB2k by making it quicker to switch channels, though the existing interface is already better than most).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:22:08 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on August 01, 2018, 02:06:18 pmYes! That would be excellent for the RTB2K. Please consider this.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 05:51:51 pm
content: On the RTM3000 it is very easy to change the measurement type and channel without needing to erase a measurement. Actually you can't erase measurements on the RTM3000; only enable/disable displaying the measurement. I suspect the RTB2000 works the same.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 07:21:09 pm
content: Please don't call it "Current channel" ... Use "Selected channel"..

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:34:44 pm
content: I agree with both of the above - "selected" is a much better idea than "current" (this has even been changed since in the original post), and the RTx series does have a much better interface for changing measurement channel than any other scope I've used.I often find myself doing a set of measurements on one channel then having to change each one to a new channel though, so I thought it would be handy even given the good existing implementation. That said, I certainly could name a few things higher on my RTB2k wish list (eg more measurement slots, math functions).

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 09:54:11 pm
content: Quote from: rosin232 on July 30, 2018, 10:26:53 pmHi rosin232 - sorry for the slow reply. Here's a more complete list of differences:RTO2000 Add 3GHz and 6GHz model optionsLarger, higher resolution display (12.1" capacitive touch vs. resistive touch, WXGA vs XGAAdditional improvements to the UI, including more dedicated sidebar navigation (makes it easier to set up measurements, FFTs, etc)Standard memory increases to 50M/ch, 200M on a single channel. Memory options up to 2GSa.Additional triggering capability, including Zone trigger option (works in both time and frequency domain - the frequency domain is super cool IMHO)In addition to the USB3.1 type A ports, added a USB 3.1 type BDisplay port outputFaster processorSSD standardA number of additional trigger/decode options availableHope this helps.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 09:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: Hydron on August 01, 2018, 02:06:18 pmHi Hydron - if I understand this correctly, would our Quick Meas button do something similar already?-Rich

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 01:56:26 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on August 01, 2018, 07:21:09 pmYou can find all kinds of gems like this in old test instrument design. Like Tektronix labels input channels 1, 2, 3, etc. and sweeps and triggers A, B, C, etc. to maintain consistency and avoid confusion.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 08:57:33 am
content: Hi Rich,Quick meas does do this (and shows more measurements at the same time), but at the cost of only seeing one waveform on the screen. An extra "channel" option on the normal measurements would make the normal measurements more flexible without limiting it to one waveform on screen. Given the quick-meas function and the good interface for measurement modification I don't think it's critical for these scopes (and as I mentioned would not be top of my new-feature wish-list), but at the same time did seem like a useful and simple idea when I saw it in the other thread.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2018, 08:23:05 pm
content: Is there a way to make the labels for the "Logic" bigger? If there are 16 signals it's okay that they're small but im gett'in kinda old and my vision's not best anymore so it would be quite comfortable to be able to make them bigger.

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2018, 08:20:29 pm
content: So i ran into another issue.Changing the slope has no effect on the Triggerpoint at all. How does that come? Am i missing something?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 04:47:47 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on August 07, 2018, 08:23:05 pmHi Detzi - good thought, but no way to do that today. I'll add it to our list of possible enhancements for the future.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 04:49:47 pm
content: Quote from: Detzi on August 08, 2018, 08:20:29 pmIt looks like there might be glitches on D10. Can you switch on peak detect or zoom in at the trigger point? The jitter on the rising edge of D10 with a falling trigger slope says there are two falling slopes at the trigger point.-Rich

author: Detzi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2018, 07:11:00 pm
content: Hi Rich,i made a shot of "D10" with an DS1052E. The edge seems nice enough to me, couldn't catch a glitch either. If there would be that much glitches to trigger the RTB repeatable and only on the supposedly "wrong" edge i would expect the DS1052 to catch them. It does it also not only for "D10", its the same with "CH1". Every 3s or so the scope seems to get unshure where to trigger and toggles between both edges. The 500us/div seem to be the critical thing here, when i scale the time up or down it gets a lot better. I attached both pictures one withe the "toggeling" made from the RTB and one of "D10" made with the DS1052E.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2018, 03:55:10 pm
content: Hi Rich,Could you provide some info about current probe deskew on the RTM3000. Is the fixture necessary, do you have suggested values like Tek? It would be smart to provide clear and easily accessible info about such things, it influences scope purchases greatly.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2018, 01:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: lem_ix on September 02, 2018, 03:55:10 pmHi lem_ix,We do offer a deskew fixture for making power measurements (I'm guessing this is what you meant?) - it is the ZF20. This will give the most accurate power measurements. In addition, each active probe in the probe menu will give you an overview of the probe's characteristics (see attached).-Rich

author: aminor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2018, 05:59:10 am
content: Hi Rich,I just bought two units of RTB-2002. One with MSO upgrade and 100MHz. The other one is a basic unit. I just manage to play with the basic unit at most. I think i have got some bug on the basic unit with latest firmware (02.121) :Day 1 - Inverse Brightness :Actually was testing enabling and immediately disabled it. but the signal intensity went very dim and it won't revert back to original state.Situation :1st time ON device.Solution :secure eraseDay 2 - Zoom :the vertical scale on zoom windows off by a lot (refer pic) that nothing appear on the zoom window. I need to slide down (Zoom Window) to actually see the zoomed signal while the 'Zoom Square' (Window above) is covering on un-populated area. Meanwhile, pic shown - Zoom window vertical scale start at 150.17mV while the above window start at around -100mV and end at 10mV approx.Situation :1st time on both channel after trimming the 2nd probe. Noticed it on the square wave gen Zoom, P0. The day before i was playing with FFT. Everything went well with Zoom before this. Problem occur in the morning the other day. I always turn off the Power Source before went to sleep.Solution :secure eraseSorry I just thought of taking pics when already on my way to 'secure erase' all settings. I need to erase two times in two days in a row after receiving the scope. problem goes away everytime I 'secure erase' I thought the scope already been a while in the market. why there are too many bugs on my 1st two days?Please advise.P/S : Autoset also might be the culprit. I don't knowHow do I get previous stable version firmware?

author: MikeP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2018, 08:58:46 pm
content: Quote from: aminor on September 10, 2018, 05:59:10 amPrevious version has the same problem.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 06:54:33 am
content: @Rich@RohdeScopesUSAHello Rich!I have a few questions about RTM3004 that are not very clear in datasheets, if you don't mind clarifying it for me.1. RTM3000/4000 don't seem to have VGA/HDMI monitor out ? Is this permanent design decision, or is there possibility/plan that you might make some addon module (like Keysight has on dso3000)?2. Does search function work on history buffer (segmented memory)? No mention of it anywhere that I could find. If it doesn't, that is a no purchase decision for me, and would be my recommendation to anyone not buy scope with 400 MS of history buffers and no search function on it.If search doesn't work on history buffer (segmented memory), is that temporary (as in: you didn't make it yet but will soon) or no plans to make that functionality?3. Looking at the docs, it seems that there is no search whatsoever on I2C, SPI and UART protocols? If that is true, is that decision temporary ? Surely people who would buy this scope would need this.Thank you for you time and effort.Best regards,Sinisa

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 07:55:35 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 14, 2018, 06:54:33 amIt doesn't really need it as remote front-panel via ethernet is pretty much realtime. You can use something like a RasPi with a web browser, though I'm not sure how fast this is. It would be nice if they offered a ready-to-go SD card image to do this, or maybe offered a packaged solution.https://youtu.be/mcgJSKxj0i0?t=267QuoteCorrectQuoteDoes seem a strange limitation as there is search on CAN

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2018, 02:39:41 pm
content: Quote from: aminor on September 10, 2018, 05:59:10 amHi Aminor - thanks for the questions. A couple quick updates:For the inverse brightness, we invert how the brightness works (0% is full brightness, 100% is dark) so you can see infrequent events easier. But we maintain the intensity setting. So if you have adjusted it to closer to 0% to be able to see the very rare events, when you switch back it will need to be adjusted in brightness the opposite way.We know of the zoom bug. It has been difficult to reproduce, but it is being worked. Hopefully it will be solved in our next FW update coming later this year.Just an FYI - secure erase is a pretty brute force method to adjust things. In general, I'd suggest using Preset instead. It won't adjust things like the intensity setting (you'll still have to adjust that using the multi-purpose knob), but it does bring the scope back to a known setup for most things without erasing the internal storage.Enjoy your new scopes!-Rich

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 12:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 14, 2018, 07:55:35 amThanks for the info! Speaking of, thanks for the videos, nice work !You have been very helpful to clarify some things about R&S scopes..Truth is, I like RTM3000 concept, I have great admiration for R&S (and old HAMEG) as T&M company and their engineers capability to create great pieces of test equipment.I'm on a verge of getting RTM3000 and need to clarify few more things that might seem little but they are huge.1. Segmented memory without search is not very useful. Simple Rigol DS4000 has that for much less money.2. Not having search on 3 most used serial protocols on the planet ? That can only be mistake... Why on earth would you do that on purpose?If those are omissions that are not implemented yet, but will be soon, I can accept that. As I said many times before, it is CRAZY hard to make such a sophisticated product.I would buy RTM3000 right now, if they promised (officially) that is something not yet implemented but will be soon.If they don't have intention to implement it, I cannot use that scope for my purpose. I will have to buy something else.It would make scope very unfit to be my primary MSO.Of course I would still respect honesty from manufacturer to say it like it is...So I would still like if Rich@RohdeScopesUSA would be so kind to help me make my final decision and clear this up for all of us. It would be greatly appreciated..Best regards to all..Sinisa

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 12:34:58 pm
content: QuoteAll depends what you want to do. Main advantage of segmented is to capture multiple infrequent events so you can scroll through them later, don't think I've ever had the desire to search through though, just step manually, but I can see that search would be useful for some situations.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 01:33:30 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 15, 2018, 12:34:58 pmIt is very useful. Picoscope has something called DeepMeasure.. You take a capture, 100 MSa if you want, and it will go through it, measuring every single period. It will measure every rise time, period, frequency (and more) for every single period. And you can sort it,click on it to see where it is and how it looks, even export it to excel for statistical calculations.. And it will work with thousands of segments of shorter captures..Very easy to capture something standing out. Lecroy has something similar called WaveScan..Also on Picoscope, you can capture serial protocol bursts in segments, and decode and search through all of them..It is very fast, automatic, no need to browse through, unless you want to....With it's 400 MSa memory R&S is aiming at same type of work...And if you look at it, RTM3000 has very nice search functions. But they should work for history buffers too, and simple serial protocols need to be included.In that case I would call RTM3000 pretty much ideal scope for my work..IF RTM3000 is not able (and wont be able) to do so, my other option is to just rely on Picoscope for MSO/Protocol decode work, and just get something simpler but fast (500 MHz +) for signal integrity work..But it would be a shame, i kinda like it...Regards,Sinisa

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 06:43:13 pm
content: I did some testing with the RTM3004 I have here but search works on individual segments only (just like decoding). It would be nice for search and decoding to work on all the segments at once. This way you end up with one long table with events/messages you can look through.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2018, 08:05:05 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 15, 2018, 06:43:13 pmThanks Nctnico! That is exactly what I got from datasheet.And Picoscope decode let you choose only current buffer or all of them. It is not perfect, it doesn't timestamp segments, i reported that to Picotech support, they said they'll look into it.. Hardware is timestamping segments, software is just not showing it now..Bit is very useful how it is now, at least they are all in a same place in order received. And you can search and filter.Regards,Sinisa

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2018, 01:55:30 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 15, 2018, 08:05:05 pmHi Sinisa - sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to get an update from Munich before I answered. As Nico confirmed, we can't search through all segments today. Enhancements to search (for history and things like additional protocols) are being considered in the long term, but it's not something I can give a firm date/commitment on today.-Rich

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2018, 03:38:42 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on September 17, 2018, 01:55:30 pmRich,thank you so much for an honest answer. I figured you had to consult what is that you can say or promise. I hope I didn't sound like I'm pressuring you for a quick answer. I really appreciate your help and your contribution to our community here.Honestly, I'm on a balance here. If there was commitment that it will be added, but no hard date, because of my respect for R&S I would take that on a face value and just go and buy one, and would have waited it out.This way, I guess i will have to reconsider my priorities and see if that is a deal breaker for me. I will tell you though ( and I know you will relay that to those that are interested ), search through history is something I expect from this class of scope (if Siglent 600 USD scope can do it ..) but I would kinda live without it. But no search on 3 most used serial protocols on a planet... That is just a mistake.I'm sorry for being blunt, I simply call them as I see them.Again, I thank you for your help, you're the best!My best regards,Sinisa

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2018, 07:24:09 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 17, 2018, 03:38:42 pmNo apologies needed - we definitely appreciate the feedback. And I wish I could give a firm commitment, but I'm more of the "under promise and over deliver" type. I'd hate to set your expectations wrong and since it isn't part of our short term roadmap (think the next couple releases), I don't feel comfortable saying one way or the other.-Rich

author: glowman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 02:24:51 am
content: Hi Rich,Any updates on when the next firmware update of RTB2000 would be? I know there are so many things to iron out so, not really pressuring. Just want to know the tentative date.Thanks.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2018, 02:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: glowman on October 12, 2018, 02:24:51 amHi glowman,I don't have a firm date, but I would expect by the end of the calendar year. I think you all will be very pleased with it-Rich

author: aminor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 03:30:47 pm
content: Anyone like to share their reviews on the latest update? : Firmware Version 02.202Link :https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/my/firmware/rtb2000/

author: hansibull
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 09:23:01 pm
content: Hi Rich!In December we bought an RTB2004 at work. Since one of our main usages are protocol decoding I made sure we got the RTB-PK1 bundle as well.I often need to decode a RS485 bus we sometimes struggle with. The messages or frames varies between 6-128 bytes. I really love the bus table, but sadly I've not figured out a way to make the bus table view the entire message, since there's no horisontal scrolling AFAIK.This screenshot shows it quite clearly. I'm watching multiple datapackets on an RS485 bus. I'm looking at these 55-64 byte messages, but i'm not able to see the entire packet in the bus table without having to zoom in to decode the actual waveform.Is it possible to view the entire packet content in the bus table, or is the only option(s) to either export to CSV or zoom in on the actual waveform (like I do on my Rigol DS1054Z at home)?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 09:32:21 pm
content: What if you show the data as text (ASCII). It seems your messages contain text which is shorter to display than HEX data.

author: hansibull
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2019, 09:56:07 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 11, 2019, 09:32:21 pmThe problem is that the protocol is not ASCII based. The scope actually shows non ASCII characters (or control characters) as hexadecimals with0xin front. On some messages it may help a bit, but 50+ bytes are still too long no matter what format they have in the bus table.

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 03:00:48 pm
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on March 14, 2017, 04:21:39 pmRich,The online tool R&S License Manager is realy well hidden...So maybe there is no shipping required to a servicecenter required but ... well, ususally I know how to use a website, but until now I i haven`t found this license-manager on the Gloris.site....Any ideas?Michael

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 05:06:09 pm
content: Quote from: mk_ on January 16, 2019, 03:00:48 pmCiao Michael, if you buy a R&S key code option we usually provide a temporary key to activate such feature, then we ship the final code by email. Our experience is that R&S take a bit of time to generate the final code.Let me know if we can help you.

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 05:19:29 pm
content: Is there any possibility of getting a demo license to test before purchase? And is there an official UK price, or should I lookup via distributors?

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2019, 11:24:37 pm
content: Quote from: simone.pignatti on January 16, 2019, 05:06:09 pmCiao Michael, if you buy a R&S key code option we usually provide a temporary key to activate such feature, then we ship the final code by email. Our experience is that R&S take a bit of time to generate the final code.Let me know if we can help you.Hi SimoneI received some kind of Licence Key via a pdf.The url on this "Licence Keys List for unregistered licences" - and also the url in the usermanual (#10.7)redirected me tohttps://gloris.rohde-schwarz.combut not to the Licence-manager. Some hours later the url in the usermanuul redirected me as it should be to the licence-managerhttps://extranet.rohde-schwarz.com/applic/license_management.phpand now everything is at it should be.thanks

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 12:49:28 am
content: Quote from: mk_ on January 16, 2019, 11:24:37 pmHi SimoneI received some kind of Licence Key via a pdf.The url on this "Licence Keys List for unregistered licences" - and also the url in the usermanual (#10.7)redirected me tohttps://gloris.rohde-schwarz.combut not to the Licence-manager. Some hours later the url in the usermanuul redirected me as it should be to the licence-managerhttps://extranet.rohde-schwarz.com/applic/license_management.phpand now everything is at it should be.thanksHi Michael - sorry of the slow response. Looks like you have it squared away now. I'll pass your feedback on what shows up with a license on to the team as well.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 12:50:20 am
content: Quote from: Hydron on January 16, 2019, 05:19:29 pmHi Hydron - yes, you can get a 30-day trial. Please ping your local distributor and they can help you out (via someone at R&S UK).-Rich

author: mk_
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2019, 11:30:27 am
content: Quote from: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA on January 17, 2019, 12:49:28 amyour and others response-time here in the forum and also via customer support from München is really fine and well within the expected time.Michael

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 01:49:42 pm
content: The software updates, including new features, R&S are providing has very much helped in narrowing down my choice for a new scope. Now it's just between the rtb2000 vs rtm3000.What are the killer reasons for going for the RTM3k over the RTB2k as it seems the majority of the software features are available on both? I don't need the 1GHz bandwidth and the sample rate of the RTB2k would probably suffice for the next couple of years. Anything else I need to be aware of that I haven't noticed.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 03:28:38 pm
content: 50 Ohm termination with active probe support, 500uV/div setting, I2S/etc decoding, a bunch of other obscure decoding formats, power analysis.Adjustable bandwidth limits (the RTB can only do 20MHz, the RTM up to 20/100/200/350/500).More acquisition modes (envelope/average + high res).More trigger options (runt, rise/fall time, multi-channel trigger)Storing failed mask testing segments.Low/high pass in math.Spectrogram option.E:significantly less blind time in segmented more, 200ns on the RTM vs 2.5us on the RTB

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 03:30:09 pm
content: Quote from: KaneTW on January 29, 2019, 03:28:38 pm6M vs. 3Mbaud serial decode

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 03:37:04 pm
content: The 50ohm termination was in my mind given I'm a radio amateur.Wasn't aware of the 'multi-channel trigger'

author: luzotug
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 29, 2019, 11:28:22 pm
content: Either RTM3k or RTB2k my advice : don't bother the individual software options, go for the PK1 bundle instead.The only 3 options that matters and you can choose from are : MSO (B1), a bandwith upgrade, PK1 bundle.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 11:38:43 pm
content: I just wanted to thank Rich for being a great R&S ambassador - I think his presence in the Forum helps elevate R&S almost to Keysight Level (and sometimes even above)So Rich - thanks for being there for me (and everybody else I hope) - got my K36 license without issue.Please feel free to bring this appreciation letter to your bonus/annual performance talks. *G*/Kaz

author: RobBarter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 12:18:45 am
content: Thanks luzotug. The PK1 and MSO were also the only options I was considering (bandwidth upgrade when needed).My son is studying Electronics at Uni, so I thought I'd give him a say (v.small) in the choice. RTB2k, RTM3k or Rigol 5000. The answer was very predictable....he has expensive taste!

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 12:48:44 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on January 31, 2019, 11:38:43 pmSeconded!

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2019, 03:18:43 pm
content: Quote from: kaz911 on January 31, 2019, 11:38:43 pmThanks for the kind words. Happy to help.-Rich

author: gsocker
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 10:39:13 pm
content: Rich,With the newer RTO firmware, is there a reason ASCII has disappeared from the protocol decode display formats? ISTR it was there on 3.70, but 4.15 and 4.20 don't have it. However, it is shown in the SCPI reference as an available option.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2019, 10:41:49 pm
content: Quote from: gsocker on February 16, 2019, 10:39:13 pmHi gsocker - I'm actually without my RTO right now, but I'll see what I can find out from Munich.-Rich

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2019, 04:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: gsocker on February 16, 2019, 10:39:13 pmHi gsocker - talked with Munich this morning and this will be fixed in a future release.-Rich

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2019, 01:51:46 pm
content: Hi!I'm shopping for used RTO-1000s and one factor I need to price in is RTO-B10 (GPIB) -> RTO-B1 (MSO) conversion. It appears that these are swappable modules that occupy a slot on the back. My understanding is that these options can still be purchased for the RTO-1k series until 2021, but I filled out [this form](https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/product/sw_rtx-b1-productstartpage_63493-502030.html) early last week and didn't receive a reply. Is there another place I should look?Thanks,JonEDIT: Would you happen to know what the port is next to the GPIB (see attached)? It doesn't look like a MSO pod port -- is it some kind of mini GPIB? I didn't know GPIB came in a mini size. Adorable

author: aminor
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 01, 2019, 03:45:46 am
content: Quote from: kaz911 on January 31, 2019, 11:38:43 pmAgreed. I endorse.

author: jjoonathan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 15, 2019, 02:30:19 pm
content: Hi! Is there a way to configure a RTO1024 that occasionally warns about overheated ADCs for a slightly more aggressive fan policy? The fans are barely spinning even though I keep getting ADC temperature warnings (110 degrees C).Thanks,Jon

author: Jackob
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2019, 11:20:15 am
content: Hi Rich and other R&S Oscilloscope gurusIs there a way I could write short measurement applications for my RT01000-series oscilloscope and run them from the scope "User Apps" window? Using the remote commands would be perfect, but I would prefer not using a separate computer (via GPIB or LAN) but run the apps directly from the RTO itself.BR, Jackob

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2021, 05:49:07 pm
content: Rich,I am looking for the 100 MHz to 200 MHz bandwidth upgrade for my Rohde & Schwarz HMO1212 Oscilloscope.It is called "Voucher-Code R&SHV312".I can't find it listed anywhere, not even on the Rohde & Schwarz website.Can you help me find it, and the cost?Thanks,Gary

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2021, 05:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: Gary350z on October 29, 2021, 05:49:07 pmPM'd.-Rich

author: Neurosurg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 09:26:42 pm
content: Finally, place for me.Rich, please tell me who is Your R&S dealer in Poland who can borrow me for test's RTE1000 oscilloscope.Tespol has Your equipment exept scopes. In electronics shops are models up to RTM3000.

author: Neurosurg
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2022, 09:57:52 pm
content: Probably you do not borrow scopes, like RTE1000, because I just found that RTE1024 full opt. cost more then 60.-000$ (something about 200.000PLN in Poland. But i have plan for buissnes, if it will be able to cope with my epectations, I can get it for leasing for e.g. but only after having a chance to test it brochures and videos is too small for that cost which user can afford.

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2022, 07:07:19 pm
content: Quote from: Neurosurg on July 02, 2022, 09:57:52 pmSorry - been on PTO. I'll PM you.-Rich

author: Gary350z
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2022, 06:58:15 pm
content: I am repeating my question because you have not responded after your initial reply on 10-29-2021.Quote from: Gary350z on October 29, 2021, 05:49:07 pm

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2022, 08:00:54 pm
content: Gary - I apologize. Asking again.-Rich

author: berke
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2022, 10:24:47 am
content: Hi,Is there a way of having bus decode on math on an RTA4004? Example use case is decoding RS-422 with varying common mode, using CH1 - CH2 for example. The math channels don't appear in the UART bus config menu.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 12:35:45 am
content: FYI, using the MXO4 scope FRA function and also the remote desktop view in a new video:

author: mawyatt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2022, 02:19:06 pm
content: Nice informative Video as usualLike the use of the FRA/Bode Plot feature to show the CMRR vs. Frequency, and some think these DSO FRA/Bode functions are uselessBest,