Looking for guide to make a pcb. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: avitsur
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 05:48:24 am
content: Hi, I hope that I'm posting in the right section.I want to diy make a pcb. I'm aware that there are Chinese manufacturers that one can order from, but I need only one board and taking the shipping time, it may be way too long. so, I would like to ask if according to your experience, you can refer my to a proven and reliable guide to do it, taking into consideration the fact that I've never done it and I have an inkjet printer - not a laser one.Thanx.

author: retiredfeline
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 05:57:53 am
content: Well first you have to choose your technology: milling, photo resist + etching, toner resist + etching, etc. Read up on those and see if they are within your capabilities and wallet.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 05:58:09 am
content: https://www.instructables.com/How-to-make-PCB-at-Home/https://maker.pro/pcb/tutorial/how-to-make-a-printed-circuit-board-pcb

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 06:07:27 am
content: With an inkjet printer, I believe your only option is to make a transparency and use the photoresist method. As for the transparency, there are lots of options. The background does not need to be perfectly clear. It only has to pass near UV (390 nm to 405 nm) light. Some people have reported using tracing paper or Vellum. I used a microcrystalline coated plastic by Pictorico. It was sold specifically for artistic inkjet printing. Vellum is a little less clear, but would probably be my second choice.As for the rest of the procedure, I used presensitized blank PCB from Digikey. It was a positive resist meaning the exposure mask was a positive print. That is, what you saw was what you got. Those areas of the PCB resist exposed to light were removed during development. The brand I liked is no longer available. So, the conditions I used for exposure and developing won't help.As for only having an inkjet, that was by far my favorite way to make a mask compared to toner transfer.EDIT: I forgot to mention that the printing does not need to be "black" per se. Printing all three colors or even a single color will work. The advantage of inkjet is that the tiny dots merge a little.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 06:14:01 am
content: there is a nice one to use photoresist film and a uv 3d printer to make masks . It actually solves more then a few problems like exposure source and you don't need transparencies or a printer.

author: andy3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 06:25:22 am
content: Quote from: avitsur on March 15, 2022, 05:48:24 amThere are many ways you can do this as mentioned above. If you have an inkjet printer, print the layout on it in black and get a reverse image photo copy made. That will give you a laser/toner print.I have done it a few times at home using an iron (as in a regular cloth iron). Get some Ferric Chloride etching compound. Put the board with foil side up on a hard surface, put the print with the print side touching the copper surface and secure it with some tape so that it will not move. Run the iron on the highest temperature setting and keep it on (moving slowly taking care not to move the paper) for as long as you can. This will transfer the image on to the copper. After that, let it cool down and soak in water so that the paper will come off. Then dip the thing in Ferric solution and slowly move it around frequently checking till the unwanted copper gets dissolved.https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/circuit-board-design/copper-etchants/ferric-chloride-etching/

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 06:34:25 am
content: If it was a simple layout I would just draw the traces on the bare copper using a Sharpie permanent marker (go over it several times to get solid coverage) or model paint and a small brush. Then I Would etch it using Ferric Chloride (there are other etchants that will work -- we used Nitric Acid in Jr. High "Electric Shop" class). That was for single-layer boards with large components, I wouldn't want to try this hand-drawn method with DIP ICs or anything smaller.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 05:39:03 pm
content: I used to own a offset printing company and could make my own high quality film negatives and positives and was able to produce very small boards with tiny traces. Alas, that equipment is long obsolete. I now work in a sign company and have laser engravers and flatbed UV printers, but not as good as the film used to be. One thing I have found helpful is what type of etch chemical I use. The muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide mix is hard on the DIY type of resists I have tried, either spray paint which is laser engraved away or UV ink applied as a mask. Ferric chloride is much less likely to lift the resist during etching. If you can find a printer or silk screener that is still running litho film negs and positives that IMO is the way to go, either with pre-made photo-resist boards or using the iron on type from eBay.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2022, 09:31:47 pm
content: So what type of circuits ?? Big/small, power, /radio, audio, computing ?I have some little copper clad PCB's, they can be ok for old style stuff, like old radio's. You can either cut away the copper, or use chemicals and do all that stuff. I never tried w/ any chem's before, just more junk I'd rather not have.I usually just buy cheap proto-board's, they aren't very good sometimes, and they aren't even cheap from ebay or Amazon....but it's better then making all point to point connections, which it probably the next cheapest.

author: guitchess
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 am
content: In my opinion, it's worth it to get a laser printer. For B/W printing, it's way cheaper than any inkjet. It will pay for itself easily if you print a lot of datasheets or similar. I have a Samsung scx-3400. It cost about $100. I've printed 100s of pages and I'm on the second $10 toner cartridge.Plus, it makes excellent PCBs.My transfer medium is Contact brand contact paper in white. Other brands and clear are too thin and will blister from the printing heat.I use Kicad, export to svg, and open/print with Inkscape.I use Muratic acid and Hydrogen peroxide as my etching solution.I get .3mm clearance with .3mm tracks and two sided boards in about 30min with ease. Every once in a while, if I don't take my time when cleaning the board before heat transfer, I may have to reprint/heat transfer.Large copper pours give me more trouble than fine tracks. I have to fill in holes occasionally with a sharpy.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 11:01:42 am
content: Quote from: guitchess on March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 amFor making PCBs, yes. Inkjet makes no sense for this application.Quote from: guitchess on March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 amI also had excellent results with a Samsung laser, better than any other I’ve tried so far.With that said:Quote from: guitchess on March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 amNot true any more. Modern inkjets with bottled ink (“ink tank printers”) have significantly lower page costs than ANY consumer laser printer.As the purchase price of consumer laser printers has dropped down to where it’s in the same ballpark as inkjets, the cost of toner has skyrocketed. HP’s entry level laser is a $130 B&W model that uses toner that costs $50 for just 950 pages. That’s already more than the $20 for 500 page black cartridges for my inkjet. If we look at the price point of the cheapest ink tank multifunction printer, $250, you get an HP black and white multifunction whose $50 toner gets you 1100 pages, while the $80 “XL” toner gets you 2400 pages. The black ink for the ink tank printer is $14 for 4500 pages.So these days, it’s actually inkjets I recommend for people who print a lot, whereas a cheap laser is better for people who print very infrequently, since they won’t waste any ink on head cleaning.Quote from: guitchess on March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 amSamsung exited the printer market 6 years ago by selling its printer division to HP. So the HP lasers I mention above are actually the descendants of your Samsung. Samsung’s toner never cost just $10 at retail, and it most certainly doesn’t now!!!(One advantage of running old printers is getting to buy spare supplies on eBay, classifieds, etc. for peanuts, since people’s printers die and they have unused supplies. So I actually never pay $20 for the cartridges for my inkjet printer, I pay no more than $5, and often nothing at all!)

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 03:57:32 pm
content: There is no way in the world that I would get involved with trying to do a PCB at home. I've done it, I was successful but it's entirely too much work and it's messy!I just use ExpressPCB.com. They're pricey compared to China but I have my boards in a week and this tends to work out with my short attention span. I tend to use the Standard MiniBoardPlus and it costs about $65 for 3 identical boards. If I have a grand design that is worth having silk screened, then the cost goes up to $85. I have only done a couple of 4 layer boards, they get expensive.I usually submit my orders over the weekend and I have my boards by Friday.It seems important to me to have plated through holes. Using cut wires for vias just isn't as clean and having to solder both sides of a component is a PITA.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 06:17:52 pm
content: possibly tough on your hands

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 07:27:12 pm
content: I did not try this yet, but for small prototypes, this could really get someone that is more 'modern' into PCBGetting rid of the printer and transparencies is significant IMO, they are often the source of problems.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 07:37:05 pm
content: Since you only need only one PCB, see if any of these prototyping techniques can be used instead of making a PCB:

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2022, 08:33:03 pm
content: the more fine hand tools you own the nicer/faster/stronger you can build those kinds of prototypes. I prefer that method myself.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2022, 07:36:55 am
content: Big Clive has a few videos about etching his own boards and he uses an inkjet printerhttps://youtu.be/CrdheP3DwycJust the first one that popped up might be worth looking at a few othersI’ve bought a cheap 3018 engraver and when I get time I’ll have a crack at making a PCB. Personally I’m not fussed about diy new PCB’s but I like the idea of making up boards for long forgotten magazine projects where they feature an image of the board and engraving an image seems trivial…

author: guitchess
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 01:50:50 am
content: Quote from: guitchess on March 17, 2022, 04:05:29 amSamsung exited the printer market 6 years ago by selling its printer division to HP. So the HP lasers I mention above are actually the descendants of your Samsung. Samsung’s toner never cost just $10 at retail, and it most certainly doesn’t now!!!Makes sense. It was well over 6 years ago that I bought this one. On sale from $140 to $99. The toners were $17 and found them a year later for $10 so I bought all they had.However, the last time I checked the price of a tank style inkjet they were $250 and up. And they don't do PCBsThere is also the added benefits of laser, light resistant and waterproof. The last I checked, those are still not inkjet qualities.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2022, 03:00:56 am
content: Quote from: guitchess on March 27, 2022, 01:50:50 amSo? Maybe that’s what peopleshouldbe spending on a printer. People’s desire for printers to cost FAR too little is why we have the overpriced toner and ink to begin with!!Quote from: guitchess on March 27, 2022, 01:50:50 amNo, they don’t do toner transfer. But I wasn’t saying they do. I was just debunking the tired old line about laser printers being cheaper to operate. They’re not any more.Quote from: guitchess on March 27, 2022, 01:50:50 amOnly in low end models. All the better ones have used pigment inks for years, and those are lightfast and generally waterproof. (Mine is from before widespread color pigment inks, but does use pigment black.)The real advantages of laser IMHO are that the toner doesn’t go bad during long periods of idling, and that the color renders the same on every paper. But inkjet has advantages, too, like better photo printing, and the lack of annoying, uneven shine on the printed areas, particularly on color lasers. (Pigment black ink on good quality plain paper is just plain easier to read, since there is never glare.) Laser printers, especially black and white models, also print dirtier and dirtier as they age. Inkjets don’t do that.