Atmel is now Microchip ??? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: alin_im
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:06:22 am
content: Hey guys,Quick question: Did Microchip just bought Atmel ? I am asking this because I entered their site today and I saw that the Atmel logo now has Microchip's near it.http://www.atmel.com/default.aspxAlin I.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:12:42 am
content: Yup!http://www.microchip.com/announcements

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:21:56 am
content: There are several long threads on this in the General Chat section, eg:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/atmel-is-microchip/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/microchip-to-acquire-atmel-how-do-you-feel-about-this/

author: batteksystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 09:48:55 am
content: Yes, Microchip bought Atmel.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 12:07:38 pm
content: yep, Microchip are hard at work adding silicon bugs to all the AVR range.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 12:35:03 pm
content: No. Microchip are generally excellent at keeping old devices in production with original specs. However their GUI tools and MCU libraries teams are experts at writing code that sucks - cantaloupe through a hosepipe grade - (their command line tools guys are far better) so I'd bet that marketing are pushing mothballing Atmel Studio and porting all AVR toolchains to MPLAB X with Microchip Code Configurator or Harmony compatible libraries that will likely deliver Arduino-like lack of performance and code bloat. Microchip hardware abstraction layers are generally about as useful and safe as a Ramset nailer DIY modified to drive thumbtacks.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 12:49:16 pm
content: Well, let's just hope that Microchip adopts AVR as their main microcontroller family. I'm a very big fan of some of their devices like mosget drivers for example, but PICS, especially 8bit ones are a turd...Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 12:51:58 pm
content: Nothing wrong with MPLABX and XC32. The Harmony framework on the other hand, is a complete disaster.I would like to see Atmel studio be replaced with MPLABX. Choosing VS was a big mistake of Atmel.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 01:25:03 pm
content: QuoteI would agree. 8-bit AVRs are much better in terms of coding and peripheral consistency than 8-bit PICs.Micorchip should have worked harder consolidating their offerings and migrating their customers to PIC24.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 04:46:51 pm
content: I hope atmel studio dies. a flashy and heavy user interface? you have to register an account to use it? fuck no. let it die.

author: Raj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 05:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on May 19, 2016, 04:46:51 pmbut using atmel was easy and cheap as daily rationBuy all atmel chips....Today, I go on shopping rampage

author: krho
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 05:58:15 pm
content: Atmel studio is a days and night in comparison to eclipse and the "price" of tools from other competitors.

author: CM800
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 06:12:23 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on May 19, 2016, 04:46:51 pmare you kidding me? I love Atmel studio, so much better then CooCox and many of the other units.I'm a huge fan and user of Visual studio so it works naturally very well for me.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:06:27 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 19, 2016, 01:25:03 pmHiIf you take a look at the "who bought who" and "who's bigger than who where" and "which lines make money" part of it .... The AVR's are at best going to be on life support for existing applications.Bob

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:46:23 am
content: BTW, A while ago I did some "bloat" comparisons between AS and MPLABX. (Start on a virgin windows VM, check free disk space, install IDE and compilers, check free disk space again, subtract.) They were about the same size. (3+GB, BTW...)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:52:47 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 19, 2016, 01:25:03 pmI wouldn't disagree with that. They kept pumping out countless different 8 bit variants.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:54:53 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on May 20, 2016, 12:06:27 amThat would be my guess too.Any dream that the Atmel fanboys have that Microchip will adopt AVR as their main 8bit platform will likely be in for massive disappointment.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 04:46:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 20, 2016, 12:54:53 amI honestly am not sure what world these people are in. PIC just ate its main competition, and while I'd like to see esp the 8bit line canceled, it's got years left in it now.The most intersting part isn't the 8bit that PIC will likely be left standing - it's that now Microchip has an ARM line they adopted and a unique crypto-ARM that may have come before or after Atmel. Neither of those things are good signs for PIC24, 33F or 32MX fans.Not that I'm complaining, Microchip let me down way too many times for me to be a fan of almost anything they offer. In my eyes they literally can only get better.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 06:29:52 am
content: Nah, besides the fact that the crypto-arm thing was there months if not years before (at least looking at the datasheets)microchip's 16 and 32 bit are not going to die anytime soon.besides the fact that microchip never really abandon a product, it just forces you to a newer, cheaper pin-to-pin and feature compatible chip by increasing the old part's price, there are dspics that have peripherals that you can't find on more than one or two arm products (for example, sent) and have all the usual advandages of the 8 bitters (simpler architecture, easier to write assembly, predictable/fixed latency) but this also applies for all the other 16bit chips in the market, at least those i've dealt withpic32 of course is another story. revision after revision it seems like there are more problems than solutions.. too bad. infact i'm forcing myself thtough the ordeal of learning to develop with stm32 efficiently for a reason

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 11:05:00 am
content: Quote from: jnz on May 20, 2016, 04:46:16 amHiWell, both Atmel and Microchip let me down a *lot* of times over 30 years or so. They both were a design staple for a while. It has been at least 10 years since either one made it into a new design. The Borg ... errr ... ARM empire pretty much took over starting about 15 years ago. We still have legacy designs based on both Microchip and Atmel parts and they do get updated from time to time. Every so often somebody takes a shot at a PIC24 or an Atmel part (that's been a long time) as an alternative. It never ends well.So no, this is not at all based on love for one outfit and hate for the other. It is simply an observation of how Microchip has operated as they gobbled up other companies. They have done it enough times that the play book is pretty clear. They are *far* from the only ones running the same plays. The "gobble up the competition" approach has been used by a lot of companies over the years. I ummm ..... errrr .... seem to have ... errr .. direct experience of it.. Most people who work in the electronics business have as well.Bob

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 11:43:46 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on May 20, 2016, 12:06:27 amEven if they hadn't planned to kill off AVR, this might wind up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. The mere prospect that the platform may go away is going to make people hesitant to use it in new projects, so sales are going to slip, and it's going to make less sense to hang on to that segment.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 11:55:04 am
content: The odds against 8 bit cross-fertilisation such as a pin & peripheral compatible PIC18mega328P or an AVR16F1xxx range that are drop in replacements for the corresponding PIC16F1xxx enhanced mid range chips except with an AVR core are pretty high - unless Microchip's marketing guys exhibit greater than usual insanity and the board lets the tail wag the dog!*IF* Microchip release any new AVR core chips, I predict 18 months of pain while they attempt to get stable AVR support in MPLAB X.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 12:16:24 pm
content: HiThe entire remaining market for 8 bit parts revolves around weird bolt on peripherals for specific markets. There is no real incentive to work on the core. The other alternatives in the market have taken the air out of the room past a pretty low price point. The only work that will be done will be for this or that really big customer who has a very clearly defined need for this or that. Past that point ... not much going to happen. When they are forced to, geometries will bump up a notch and ram and flash will go up. Prices will inch up on all of the old parts year after year. Profit will be made by investing in acquisitions and repeating the same formula.Bob

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 03:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on May 20, 2016, 11:55:04 amThis post made me a little sick. Is there recognized engineer-PTSD? I'm so glad for my mental health I dumped Microchip mcus.Bob, I get ya. But say what you will about the Borg, the methods WORK. I'm MUCH more productive since switching from a single vendor solution to ARM.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 04:12:27 pm
content: Quote from: jnz on May 20, 2016, 03:51:19 pmHiRelax and be assimilatedThe ARM world is far from perfect. I do find that I get a *lot* more done in less time on them. There are still plenty of issues to deal with though. We switched as much for the lower cost as anything else. The faster development cycle / fewer issues stuff just came along for free.Bob

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 04:19:07 am
content: I have no inside information. I suspect all the Atmel branded hardware and software release will continue, but with less emphasis on new products or new features over time. There is no incentives to add AVR support to MPLAB, or mix-n-match AVR and PIC features. What they do have is that they can offer either PIC or AVR or both to potential customers, without the sales competing.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 09:08:29 am
content: I've used Microchips PIC's (all families except PIC32 and 14xx series) for the last 25 years - so many times I've heard people claim there doomed, yet here we are...I just can't see it as a long-term negative for Atme, Microchip are a pretty safe pair of hands.If you want to see something disruptive, you should see:http://www.gigadevice.com/I've heard the pricing is scarily cheap.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 09:44:33 am
content: Mergers are mostly guided by revenue opportunities rather than common sense in terms of technical products. Been there, seen it happen in other markets.I think it's very unfortunate too Microchip has not tried harder with their PIC24. It's a very nice answer to the shortcomings of their 8-bit chips. However the 16-bit MCU market hasn't really been growing for ages now. If you look at percentages of revenue, the 16-bit market is actually shrinking. Does it make sense to invest more into 16-bit? Nope. Their investors probably want MCP see investing in "upcoming markets".Microchip has got their 8-bit covered from a business point of view. They announced a little while back very proudly they have the biggest revenue of the 8-bit market. How can that happen if you read the amount of bitching on their 8-bit architecture? It probably all has to do with "bolt on" peripherals, pricing and availability. Have you tried to buy some AVR chips in any quantity? They are very expensive .. any PIC and most MSP430 or modern ARM will beat that.So it makes sense that Microchip acquired Atmel because of their ARM offerings. Atmel ARM listings far exceeds what type of AVR chip you can get. Atmel has Cortex A5 or ARM926 chips that run some flavor of Linux, back down to cortex m0+ for IoT and whatnot.The trend is already that 32-bit is the new 8-bit, so suppose this solidifies completely in the upcoming (let's say) 10 years it makes sense they really needed to strengthen their 32-bit portfolio. Because although I can personally appreciate PIC32MX having worked with them a few years back, out-sight is slightly different:- Microchip misses all the love ARM gets. I appreciate the PIC32 and MIPS4K in it self though but honestly it's not enough to be convincing.ARM wins IMHO on all aspects of development and firmware parts now, offering more alternative toolchains (from free mbed cloud to IAR/KEIL with trace and RTOS inspectors), RTOS's, complexity & options of it's peripherals, etc.- Full debugger + dev boards + toys for ARM can be had for 20$. If you just want to evaluate a MCU peripheral it's no big deal to order such board and use it for only 1 hour to figure out if a peripheral will work out for you.From my point of view, there is no answer from Microchip. Their PIC32MZ EF starter kit is already 100$, that still only gets you a PICKIT3. Although it works, it is outperformed by all onboard debuggers on ARM boards I've seen.- Energy friendly with PIC32 is impossible.PIC32MX250: 500uA/MHz, 44uA sleep current.PIC32MZ EF: 460uA/MHZ, 1.5mA sleep current.SiLabs Pearl Gecko (48MHz Cortex m4): 60uA/MHz, 2uA sleep currentMost other ARM chips are probably in 100-200uA/MHz range with <10uA sleep currents.- No PIC32 that can run Linux.- No PIC32 that can handle SDRAM- LCD TFT hardware controller with 2D DMA anyone?- No PIC32 with house-keeping DAC. Only 12-bit house-keeping ADC on their latest PIC32MZ- PIC32MZ has been a bit of a fail in terms of silicon bugs. Since then ARM Cortex m7 has come out with in general more peripherals, yet higher clock speeds and an even faster instruction pipeline (up to 2IPC)PIC32 still applies for many other applications (not everyone will jump straight into a Linux project with LCD TFT and SDRAM, or ultra-low power IoT wireless nodes), but I can see how Atmel chips would fill huge gaps in Microchip's 32-bit offering.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 09:44:33 am
content: Quote from: jnz on May 20, 2016, 04:46:16 amThe 8 bit MCUs are still essential products. They get used in everything low cost and small, e.g. pregnancy testers and other medical electronic assay readers, toothbrushes etc. The volume price for these is untouchable by anything other than the Chinese 8051 MCUs. There's no way they're going away, but obviously they are of little use to hobbyists. Your comment is very short sighted though.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 12:26:15 pm
content: Quote from: hans on May 21, 2016, 09:44:33 amHiSome of the ARM stuff will get into the nano amp range (yes its hundreds not single digits) for deep sleep current. They also go from deep sleep to full up high speed operation very quickly. While it's a bit counter intuitive, the "sleep almost all the time / go monster fast to do things" approach actually gives you very impressive battery life. Yes, it's a gimmick for a specific niche. Not everybody needs to run a 32 bit MCU off of a coin cell for a month. It is yet another example of how hard it is to cover all the bases with one line of parts.Bob

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 01:12:10 pm
content: Yep, this is why I referred to the EFM32 seriesThe current I mentioned is not even the deepest mode (EM4 is, that is in the <0.1uA range), but rather I referred to a mode that is practical. Like a WDT or RTC that will wake the CPU at a deterministic point for processing or measuring, and then go back to sleep.The EFM32 are quite quick from EM2/EM3 to run (2us), but some PIC24 are also quite fast (5us). So in that sense the more energy efficient 32-bit ARM core is the primary appeal."sleep long & run fast" is true, most MCU's have rather large bias currents to keep oscillator blocks functional. The lowest uA/MHz figures are reached at the highest MHz, because of the bias currents from various components like oscillators which are non-linear with frequency. Say a 4MHz oscillator requires 200uA bias current, that's a lot if the rest of the CPU only needs 4x100=400uA.And yes indeed, it's a niche application that recently has drawing my attention again. But it's a completely different application than say automotive, which benefits from a good CAN bus controller, serial UART, a fast CPU to run CAN protocols and a decent PWM or bus peripherals.

author: splin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 21, 2016, 11:33:57 pm
content: Quote from: hans on May 21, 2016, 09:44:33 amThat Gecko headline 60uA/MHz is actually a bit of a cheat as the best value they actually specify in the datasheet is 63uA/MHz from 3.3Vusing the DC-DC convertor. Without it the best figure is 87uA/MHz running prime rising to 112uA/MHz running coremark which is still pretty respectable (but not quite as good as the STM32L4). You could get that down to < 1uA/MHz running from a 300V supply with a suitable convertor!For low power though Ambiq Micro's 30uA/MHz (24MHz Cortex M4F) can't be beat - but I don't know when they will be available to most of us.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 09:49:15 pm
content: QuoteIn the same way that the mc14500 is still alive and well today,I think it is likely that 8-bit mcus will be around for a long time. At the same time, it is difficult to make a case that it will be as vibrant of a business in the future as it has been. All you need to do is to look at new designs and see which chips are being picked for those new designs - Microchip itself has a very survey on that where they proudly presented a bright picture for their MCUs without understanding what a doomy story it told of their own future,edit: here is the presentation I was talking about:http://www.microchip.com/investor/Pressrelease/MCHP%20Investor%20Presentation.060313.pdfTake a look at Page 16. If you are a Microchip investor and that page doesn't get you to shit in your pants, well, get a new pair of pants,

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2016, 11:47:51 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on May 22, 2016, 09:49:15 pmHiThe 8 bit MCU has a wonderful future making up a reasonable fraction of the 120 MCU's in the driver's seat of some cars (yes that's a real number). For hobby use or things like that ... don't count on it. The 16 bit world is dead at most places that once did 16 bits. The "rest of the world" has moved up to 64 bits and looks at 32 bits as "yesterday's news". In those applications where a 17 cent MCU at a million pieces is what (barely) does the job, they won't go for the 22 cent solution. Five years from now, once you get past 50 cents, no more 8 bit, no more 16 bit in new designs. Scale that down from the millions however you wish.BobBob

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 04:40:58 am
content: Quote from: hans on May 21, 2016, 09:44:33 amYet, though even once the PIC32MZ DA is released I can't really see why anyone'd use it unless they're committed to using Microchip products exclusively, and even then there's now the SAMA5 series to choose from.QuoteThe PIC32MZ EF fixed a lot of the issues and added an FPU, but the delays definitely ruined any advantage they had over the competition.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 09:50:50 am
content: Quote from: splin on May 21, 2016, 11:33:57 pmOh Yes I remember seeing that. In that sense the uA/MHz is a bit disillusional because it's only valid at 3V VDD, making the uA/MHz figure less meaningful.STM32L4 is also quite nice, but a very expensive chip if all you need is 1-2 communication busses, a 16MHz CPU load application, and 64KB FLASH/16KB RAM.Quote from: andersm on May 23, 2016, 04:40:58 amSeems like the DA is the chip I was missing out onInteresting. But it would have a lot of catching up to do with ARM, which has dominated the tablet, smartphone and embedded computer boards for years now. The fact you can download Debian desktop OS straight for ARM shows that.200MHz MIPS CPU and 128MB DDR2 sounds a little outdated though to be running a Linux in 2016. Same for the PIC32MZ EF. Timing is horrid in my opinion, they should have released this chip in 2012 IMHO.I suppose a winner could be the price point, power consumption and design resources.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2016, 12:28:28 pm
content: Quote from: hans on May 23, 2016, 09:50:50 amHiFor a while the 8 and 16 bit chips did have a cost advantage. It's not real clear how long the PIC32 held an advantage over ARM. The price point at which the crossover occurred dropped year after year. When it hit $10 nobody at Microchip probably even noticed. When it hit $5 they probably did start to notice. As it crossed $1 you can be very sure they were paying a lot of attention.Power wise, there are a *lot* of ARM designs from a lot of outfits that do really well. It's not a "one company only" sort of thing. If you don't find what you want / need / like from company S you can look at company F (or N) or company T or company B or ... lots of choices. It's all the same CPU and mostly the same learning experience.Tool chain wise, yes there are differences in the free toolchains. Some are better than others. For real money you can buy commercial tool chains from many different outfits. To one extent or the other the commercial stuff makes moving from one vendor to the other relatively transparent. None of it takes care of the fiddly drivers for non-standard devices without some tweaking.Bob

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 12:59:44 pm
content: If you want to hear something extreme:Microchip is now into Cortex M4:http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/CEC1302It is hidden on their website, impossible to find.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 04:01:43 pm
content: It's not hidden that well!Products -> Embedded Controllers and Super I/O-> Embedded and Keyboard Controllershttp://www.microchip.com/design-centers/embedded-controllers-and-super-i-o/products/embedded-and-keyboard-controllersIt is a bit suspect though

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 04:27:06 pm
content: Can't remember where the CECxx series were discussed recently, but someone suggested that it originated from SMSC or some other recent Microchip acquisition. Just last year Microchip released the MIPS M14K-based MEC14xx series which has almost the same functionality, and this kind of product overlap would be surprising if it were by design.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2016, 06:23:56 pm
content: why does nobody bother to check datesyes it was already discussed a month ago or so in a simillar topic.. and again a lot of time ago when this part came out

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 12:12:28 pm
content: First rimples in the water.The AVR micro's are getting more expensive and AVR support teams are dismantled.

author: asgard20032
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 01:17:53 pm
content: Do you have anything to support your statement?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 03:39:28 pm
content: no I can't, just telling what I heard from recent negotiations.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 04:16:07 pm
content: a quick look on octopart and i see that prices are not higher than 1 year ago

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 05:38:49 pm
content: End user prices may be the same, the contract large number prices are changing. That's all I am saying and that is already too much

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2016, 05:52:13 pm
content: ooh,can'tin that senseuse a dspic already

author: rfleming
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 01:30:29 am
content: I have only really worked with Atmel micro's at my current company and have become a rather big fan despite not really have any experience with MicroChip's devices. It's easy to jump on the PIC hating band wagon and many of your complaints might be valid.But consider this. Atmel was not really making any profit for the last few years. MicroChip was. Thus as a business model Atmel was doing something wrong. Whether that was making all their tools free or making their micro's quite cheap, it is arguable. All that can be said is that something needed to change and something PIC was doing was right.Microchip purchasing Atmel could be the best thing that could happen it is approached correctly. But obviously the hardware or software will increase in price at some point.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 03:16:39 am
content: QuoteWe shall see. IMO, Atmel chip prices have never been particularly stable. :-(

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 03:22:40 am
content: Quote from: westfw on July 01, 2016, 03:16:39 amHiThe MBA term is "harvest mode". You chop the R&D, jack up the prices, and make money off of those who are stuck using the parts. Does that apply here. Indeed, only time will tell.Bob

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 04:12:23 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 30, 2016, 05:38:49 pmDo you know that Microchip are hiking prices just for parts that started in Atmel? It could be much broader.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 05:43:41 am
content: Nope, i do know that Atmel was pretty cheap so that was a major reason to switch brands and development for some companies. Now there is panic and they might switch back to their previous supplier, not very good for relations.But it could well be powerplay, call eachothers bluff.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 09:49:06 am
content: QuoteA dagger in the hearts of the avr fanboys,Actually, that would be a sad move by Microchip - for all its "badness", AVR is much better than comparable PIC. If anything has to go, it should have been the PIC. Not to mention the premium Microchip paid to get Atmel.as to profitability, the Microchip CEO is full of himself. On gross profits %, ATMEL is comparable to Microchip if you factor in amortization -> given that ATMEL doesn't have its own fab.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 10:24:09 am
content: Marketing, sales, and support are areas where there's always lots of overlaps, so it would be more surprising if there weren't layoffs. Question is whether they're targeting the Atmel organization exclusively or not. Regarding part prices, I suspect Atmel were selling at a much lower margin than Microchip, and that the prices are being brought into line with Microchip's financial targets.Any word on whether they'll introduce paid licenses for their compilers?

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 10:33:00 am
content: This sounds in line with Microchip's business model and previous statements. They said Atmel have good products but they were being sold "too cheaply". Microchip maintain their profit margin and don't cut prices so much for volume.The real test for the future of AVR is if Microchip introduce new devices other than ones already planned.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 11:47:50 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on July 01, 2016, 09:49:06 amIf that should be true, Atmel could have bought Microchip, not the other way around.

author: Scrts
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 01:48:54 pm
content: Quote from: Karel on July 01, 2016, 11:47:50 amApparently Microchip for you is only doing PICs...

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 05:18:53 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on July 01, 2016, 09:49:06 amHiThen I guess that Atmel must simply be a whole bunch of idiots to have sold the company. Gee... if they were idiots at the sale, did they simply go stupid at the last moment? Seems unlikely ....Nobody ever goes into one of these kinds of deals (merger of "same") as the junior partner and comes out ahead. It's not like that was a big secret before the sale. There's only been a few hundred years worth of examples .....Bob

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 07:25:45 pm
content: http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 07:34:40 pm
content: QuoteThe guy would take a class on how to be diplomatic,Doesn't sound like a CEO at all.The tone towards Atmel doesn't sound like a friendly acquisition at all. Doesn't bode well for the avr fanboys,

author: jaxbird
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 07:41:28 pm
content: Tough times for the Atmel fan boys... embrace the superior Microchip... lol

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2016, 08:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on July 01, 2016, 07:07:08 pmA product being terrible doesn't mean it won't sell.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2016, 12:45:55 am
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on July 01, 2016, 11:24:10 pmNo argument there, but they also have a massive amount of corporate and cultural inertia working in their favour.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2016, 06:22:15 am
content: QuoteI dunno. Did you read past the page1 comments by the disgruntled single high management employee whose main goal from the acquisition was apparently a juicy retirement package? Looks like quite a SNAFU with blame to go around, but I haven't got a lot of sympathy for execs and their lucrative exit deals, anyway...Atmel has always been a bit of a mess, business-wise. They were seldom profitable, even when they owned fabs, and they've had assorted upper management embarrassments. Don't you rememberhttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/business/11norris.html?_r=0? (note the comments about not being profitable for the period 2000..2006 !)

author: SimonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2016, 03:45:11 pm
content: I'm not surprised Atmel became a target for takeover, I've not been very impressed with them recently.When we first designed a part in we discovered that the the entire UK tech support team had left the company more or less at the same time. They did bend over backwards to get answers but it took a lot longer than it should have.Then just as we went into production we got a letter advising of a last time buy because the part was being discontinued, despite assurances that it had a guaranteed life of 5 years.This last part turned out to be totally incorrect because the reason it was being discontinued was because the die was beining re-engineered for a new wafer fab, but they didn't bother telling us the seconed part, leaving us having to buy a years woth of stock upfront and facing the prospect of a produt re-design. As it happened we needed the stock because it took 6 months longer than predicted to get supplies back to normal.Things have been OK for the last 12 months but now I'm nervous again. Microchip might discontinue the part instead. On one hand its an old design but on the other theys just paid out for a new factory. Who knows what will happen

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2016, 07:45:19 pm
content: QuoteIt would have been a good point to design out any part from vendors who don't tell the whole truth to their customers.It is counter-intuitive to me that after someone has lied to you you would go back and order more parts from them. To me, if you lie to me, you are out.

author: SimonR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2016, 09:38:16 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on July 02, 2016, 07:45:19 pmThey didn't lie at the begining, and they didn't lie later on either, they just just failed to comunicate correctly by leaving stuff out. Basically one department wasn't talking to the others.Unfortunately it was/is a choice of buy the parts or don't ship product for another year while you design a new part in.No it won't take a year the second time round, but we have customers who have to qualify the product at a specific version of the code before they accept it, and that can take up to six monthsAtmel won't be going in the eventual replacement.