No SMPS projects for University and college students? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 04:14:19 pm
content: Is it true that UK univerisites and colleges are banned from giving students <500W Hard switched SMPS projects for their final year project because of lack of jobs in UK for such work?(speaking about HNC, HND and BEng and MEng courses)I have heard (on the grapevine from a recruitment consultant ) that students who did such projects failed to find work, even if they were great students, and so the uni’s and colleges have stopped such SMPS projects?I have heard that there are still projects carried out in eg >1kW Novel Hybrid Resonant converters, etc etcIs this the same in other countries?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 04:36:09 pm
content: No. Many of my university colleagues took a power electronics course of which part of the course was to design a small switch mode power supply, forward converter usually. This was in 2012 ~ 2017.Power electronics engineering is a smaller field than general electronics engineering. It can pay well, but take much longer to find a good role. Many of these jobs have gone abroad, because there is little money in making lower cost SMPSes any more when they are usually imported as modules. But I know a guy who does SMPS design for a medical electronics company, based in Cambridge, so they are out there.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 04:42:37 pm
content: Quote from: treez on July 26, 2020, 04:14:19 pmHere we go again, yet another treez thread about the UK/western conspiracy against domestic power supply manufacturers...

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 06:09:27 pm
content: QuoteThanks, may i ask if this was a "paper" design, or producing a bench protoype?Also, was the input mains electricity, or low voltage DC?QuoteThanks, there are a few HV SMPS manufacturers in UK.As far as general SMPS design manufacturers in UK...there are no big UK ones left......there is a small one near Birmingham which is actually UK owned i believe.(?)There is TDK in Barnstaple, which of course is a brilliant place, and is Japanese.There is XP power near Reading, which is another brilliant place, and is USA owned,

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 06:35:16 pm
content: Bench prototype. Usually limited to 48V SELV due to health and safety restrictions. But there were some PhD students working on mains voltage motor drivers.TBH if you can make a flyback or forward converter work on 48V you can make it work on 230V AC. You just need higher voltage rated components, and perhaps learn a bit about bootstrapping circuits and tweaks to transformers at higher switch voltages. I don't really see that as stopping them.You listed two major engineering companies in the UK that design PSUs. Clearly someone is being educated to work there.

author: ocset
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 07:21:37 pm
content: QuoteThanks yes you're quite right, the thing is , those particular sites are only small places, and so any prospective SMPS worker on a Undergrad course may wonder what the actual chances of getting in there are....as you say though, there are departments of other (eg medical) companies who are doing SMPS design work, but its almost impossible for an undergraduate to gauge just exactly how many SMPS jobs there may be available in UK (or elsewhere)...and they may just decide its undefineable, and therefore too risky to go in for SMPS....(study may not result in an SMPS job).

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 08:58:12 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 26, 2020, 04:42:37 pmIt does look like that, doesn't it!I have to admire his ability to think of a new angle to push his agenda.His contention is nonsense, of course. No university would think of training a student to get a specific job.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 09:07:38 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on July 26, 2020, 06:35:16 pmThat's the big issue that probably sparked treez to post. Health and safety issues have driven most of the serious practical work out of UK degree courses. Combined with universities wanting to cut back on the high cost of labs, "lab work" has become "matlab work" for huge numbers. I talked with a couple of UK lecturers in power electronics about 10 years ago who were ready to give up and leave academia because of this.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2020, 09:11:15 pm
content: Quote from: treez on July 26, 2020, 06:09:27 pmI have come across a couple of UK engineers who work for themselves designing SMPSes for clients in the USA and Asia, who appear to have had a steady flow of work since the 80s, when most of the UK SMPS makers died.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2020, 12:00:15 am
content: Thing is, I don't recon there is enough depth in the sort of SMPSU most of us need most of the time that can reasonably be taught at undergrad level to make one a decent degree project.The power supply is usually something that has lots of technician sort of details in it (You need to follow the rules to get a LVD and EMC pass), but the datasheet for your chosen chip will usually give you the control theory for the loop ona plate, they are usually cookie cutter affairs (In fact did not someone have a spreadsheet they were touting to spit out flyback designs with no thinking required?). Most of the time a power supply makes a nice HND sort of project, not a Degree one, the emphasis is quite different.I mean, sure, some high density GaN thing with active clamps and two quadrant operation right up against the thermal density limits? Yea, great masters or PHD project, maybe, but some boring cookie cutter flyback ripped wholesale from a PI datasheet? Meh, any tool can do that, and a decent tech should be able to do it well, there is not a degree project there.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2020, 02:17:18 pm
content: Quote from: treez on July 26, 2020, 04:14:19 pmI respectfully decline the invitation to join your hallucination.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 07:36:10 pm
content: Well that was short work, they took less than a minute to post those so bots yes.Universities in the UK don't give a toss about the job market. If they did they would actually teach students and we would not have these pathetic 3 years courses that don't actually teach you anything. A friend moved to France, he can't get work, this is because in France students do 5 year degrees and actually get taught stuff, he can't compete - his degree was half mechanical and half electronic, while you should be taught a range of knowledge I thought university was about sticking to at least one broad subject not two. This poor chap is not even a jack of both trades and certainly a master of neither.Here you do three years, get taught nothing and then go off to be an apprentice where some poor mug has to teach you what university did not. This is why when we were looking for another engineer I chose an avid hobbyist and was not interested in seeing graduates, if I have to teach someone, it will be because they were never taught in the first place not because the went to "feeling like you can do it school, think you know it but can't do shit for all the debt they are in now!" school.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 08:38:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 12, 2022, 07:36:10 pmWhether to become a "jack of all trades" or "master of Xerox toner mechanisms" is a career choice. Either is valid, with associated advantages and disadvantages.QuoteThat is completely dependent on the course. Some are excellent, some less so.I want back to my university on the 40th anniversary of our graduation, and the open day showed that the course was still as excellent as ever: a good mix of theory, practical, teamwork and individual work. And it was still possible for undergrads to use the lab facilities for their home projectsQuoteI've always looked for both the ability to absorb and use theory, and the drive to do their own practical hobby work. Most people don't manage one or the other, but both arenecessary.Theory without practice is mental masturbation.Practice without theory is blind fumbling.

author: strawberry
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2022, 09:07:03 pm
content: ESAB, Telwin, ... made in EUcan tell by TDK/epcos ... partsno shortage for hard switching SMPS

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 06:52:52 am
content: In the age of of EV's and new energy solutions there will be no lack of demand for switching technology, but if all the graduates are taught is the standard configurations and to run the formula's they will just be regular engineers. I can knock up a small SMPS if I want, but I'm not stupid enough to go out and start designing something big or novel without some prior experience.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 07:31:23 am
content: Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2022, 06:52:52 amRather, you may think you can do it but then you start looking at app noteshttps://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-20180802_AN-Power_stage_of_48V_BSG_inverter_V2.2-AN-v01_00-EN.pdf(and simillar from TI)and you realize you'll have to do so much more homework< 500W standard topologies is a breeze these days

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 05:29:16 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 13, 2022, 06:52:52 amWith most high power switching design, whether its an SMPS or other power electronics, the real work starts when the basic functionality is working, but the EMI/EMC tests are failing badly. That's something most fresh graduates don't really get to grips with in college, and start learning in industry.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 13, 2022, 05:32:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on April 12, 2022, 07:36:10 pmMy intent in reporting the spam posts was not for you to then resurrect a nearly 2-year-old thread by one of our most infamous time sinks.

author: annagill60ja@gmail.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 08:04:37 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on April 13, 2022, 05:29:16 pmi'm really sorry for bumping this, but I am exactly that graduate that has some problems with this stuff. Could you tell some more about that? (would be highly appreciated). I have lots of problems at my university, and I am really bored of it. Recently I came acrossspam link removedand I think that it's a pretty nice solution for us, students. There I found different essays and useful stuff. However, I still have a lot of things to do.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 08:38:03 am
content: Maybe start a new thread?

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 09:57:24 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 02, 2022, 08:38:03 amNah, link spam only works in the context of an existing thread which is semi-relevant to the advertised product or service. And I have a feeling that this is what the above post will soon turn into. Stay tuned for the addition of a link to some online student learning help or such...

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 10:12:49 am
content: yep me too but thought I would give the "lady" the benefit of the doubt.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 11:31:43 am
content: One of the pleasing things about this forum is the way that (most) users and admins communicate and cooperate to ensure it remains pleasing

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 12:51:20 pm
content: Indeed, we can't do it alone and it gets to the point where spotting the spammer becomes a forum sport.

author: annagill60ja@gmail.com
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 06:43:44 pm
content: so ? can I get an answer? Or should I start a new thread? I'm a bit confused. Do I break any rules?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 06:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: annagill60ja@gmail.com on June 02, 2022, 06:43:44 pmYour question is rather broad and non-specific but I guess that is because you don't know which question to ask...Part of designing an SMPS is understanding to keep high current loops small. The circuit board itself plays a huge role in this but you'll also need snubbers, controlled MOSFET switch on/ switch off behaviour. In addition you'll need input and output filtering which is kind of an art in itself (selecting the right filter components to suppress the noise in the right frequencie bands). The problem with many reference designs is that all the tricky stuff to make a supply pass EMC is missing so you'll have a working circuit but it needs extra components & design effort to make it pass EMC.You better create a new thread and try to be more specific. Maybe you have selected a circuit topology already and are now wondering what the pitfalls are from an EMC/EMI perspective.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 07:14:44 pm
content: Quote from: annagill60ja@gmail.com on June 02, 2022, 06:43:44 pmCan I suggest you consider how to ask a question that is likely to be answered well.There are several guides available; this is just onehttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/good-questions-pique-our-interest-and-dont-waste-our-time-2/

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 07:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: annagill60ja@gmail.com on June 02, 2022, 06:43:44 pmthis thread has had several discussions and is old. If you have a question the best thing might be to start a new thread with your question.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2022, 05:20:44 pm
content: OK, it was a spammer after all, as suspected. Interesting little twist that they actually came back with a second post. Anyway, time to clean up -- thanks in advance to the moderators!

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 03, 2022, 06:26:54 pm
content: Amazing, I really cannot believe someone was dumb enough to come back and modify the post after we openly called them a spammer. They must be paid like crap at those spam mills.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2022, 09:53:21 pm
content: .. or you know, AI has made it to annoying advertising.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2022, 08:58:56 am
content: Yea maybe, I'd drop the "I" from the "AI" though for this one.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2022, 11:11:43 am
content: Quote from: Simon on June 03, 2022, 06:26:54 pmThey had nothing to lose, and could demonstrate to their paymaster that they had done their job. It wouldn't have been their fault that it was taken down so quickly.