Wavetek / Fluke ? SF10 short finder  -A very useful tool if you can find it - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 08:20:01 pm
content: A few years ago I was hunting for a decent continuity tester to assist in tracing component interconnects on PCB's whilst reverse engineering for repair work.I stumbled upon an unusual unit from Wavetek named the 'SF10 Short Finder Brush' I could only find it available in the USA but as it was on offer at US$19 the additional postage cost wasn't too much of an issue.What makes this unit unusual? Well take a look at the picture. It has the normal multimeter like test probes for point to point continuity testing, plus a stainless steel brush. With the brush the user can pick a point of interest on a PCB circuit with the cabled test probe and then 'scan' the PCB with the brush until continuity is found. The brush is then replaced with the probe, at the other end of the unit, to zero in on the continuity point. It is designed to provide a continuity indication beep no matter how fast the brush is moved across the PCB. It also uses semiconductor safe voltages and currents, unlike some continuity testers designed for electrical work.Details are here:http://www.tequipment.net/WavetekSF10.htmlhttp://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/continuity-checkers/3389851/Is it any good ? Well I ordered a couple of the units from the USA and can confirm that it is very well made and VERY quick to respond to continuity. I used it in anger today to reverse engineer a multi layer PCB that had issues. I was able to quickly locate the main interconnects between the chips of interest and it was much faster than the point to point testing that I have done with my Fluke 87 III.Does it have any flaws? Well maybe....it cannot be used on PCBs that have been marinised or coated with varnish. But then that is true of any contact probe unless you pierce the insulation. You can also use the brush on the component side of the PCB if that is not coated.So why did I say 'if you can find it'....well for some reason Wavetek/Meterman have discontinued this useful tool and no equivalent appears to be available. You could probably make something similar if you can find a metal filament brush and a very fast responding electronics safe continuity tester. For US$19 it was a bargain though.If you do any PCB reverse engineering I recommend this continuity tester so if you spot one....consider adding it to your tool kit. A simple idea that works well.

author: toli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2013, 06:59:37 am
content: Why not build on yourself? Now with 3D printers being so wide spread I'm sure you can find someone who can even print a nice case for it, and the circuit isn't complicated at all.Or even easier, just make a similar brush "probe" for your DMM (assuming your DMM is fast enough on the continuity range). I'm sure its possible to figure our a method to place both the brush and the normal sharp probe tip on opposite sides of the same silicon/plastic handle. I might even give that a try one of these weekend if I can find the time

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2013, 10:44:24 am
content: A DIY solution id definitely possible. A chap on Instructables made a version of it with a multimeter connected to a foil finger cap but that isn't quite the same IMHO. A metal brush connected to a fast multimeter, as you suggest is a better plan.http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Quickly-Find-And-Trace-PCB-Tracks-1/I don't actually need another as I have one, and a spareThe clever bit is really the fast responding continuity tester. It is as fast, or faster than my Fluke III beeper circuit and provides fast audio feedback, indicating that you have just passed over the continuity point for which you are hunting.I will take a picture of the units internals for anyone wanting to build their own. The low test voltage and low current is crucial for such a unit.I have found a price for when the unit was available in the UK....GBP39 (~$60) so it wasn't exactly cheap but it is well designed and built.I just noticed an interesting label on the unit:"WAVETEK is a trademark of Wavetek Wandel Goltermann Inc. (WWG) and is used by Fluke under a transitional licwence agreement. Fluke is not affiliated with WWG"So Fluke were involved in this unit ? Could it be that it is actually a Fluke product with Wavetek labelling ? That would explain the excellent performance and quality of the product, and possibly its discontinuation ? InterestingI have amended the title of this post to reflect this possibility.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2013, 11:56:48 am
content: Internal picturesIt contains a LP324 and two TL555C's ....nice and simpleEasy to repair if I fry it !http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lp324.pdfhttp://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlc555.pdf

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2013, 12:52:09 pm
content: cable "ringers" are also incredibly useful, essentially, you connect a tone generator to one end, then a receiver "wand" is waved over the cables, and the one that makes the wand "ring" is the one the generator is connected to. Incredibly useful for wiring harnesses and large scale cabling.

author: dds737
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2014, 08:45:39 pm
content: Just won this exciting tool (SF10) on ebay, looking forward to use it

author: marc.hickling
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2018, 01:06:14 am
content: Hi this is an old post i know, but... Im looking for a replacement brush or alternative for this product. Anyone got any ideas? I know the company is now bust but its an incredible tool can anyone help?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2018, 09:55:41 am
content: Sadly I have not found any original manufacturers spare brushes, hence why I purchased more than one unit to last me longer. I would think some form of brass or steel bristle brush could be modified to replace the original bit finding a long rasa or steel bristle brush is the chalkenge as you no doubt know. Sadly the circuit inside the unit is not compatible with carbon, or carbon impregnated filaments.The unit is sadly discontinued but it was sold under different brand names. Wavetek, Meterman, Amprobe and Fluke. None of them provided a replavcement brush assembly even when stil, a current product.I will have a look around to see if I can spot any long metal bristle brushes. They are the sort of thing used in some types or art and for cleaning metal so a suitable brush may be out there somewhere. There are cleaning pencils that contain a choice of glass fibre, steel or brass inserts that retract when not in use. A little like a propelling pencil. The replacement inserts are cheap enough and could be combined to form a wide brush ?Another possibility is to make a new brush by cutting many lengths of very thin spring steel wire to form the brush. Sadly that would be hard work though.Fraser

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2018, 04:42:07 pm
content: Quote from: peter.mitchell on July 07, 2013, 12:52:09 pmI had a Power Probe ECT 3000 when I was doing a bit of Auto electrical, fantastic bit of kit.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 03:09:20 pm
content: idea to replace this steel brush (combining 2-3 of them) :https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scratch-brush-brass-steel-nylon-fiberglass-set-watch-repair-rust-clean-tool-mix/112140712886

author: Getorix
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:41:02 am
content: Hi everyone.I would like to share DIY alternative to SF10 which I have been using for some time already and it works perfect.Here is what you need:1.QianLi ToolPlus iBrush DS1102 Multifunctional Steel Brush(easy to find on AliExpress or UnionRepair)2. hook-up wire3. male crimp pin for 0.1"4. heat-shrink tube5. duct tapeThe good thing about this brush is that brush wires are all connected and exposed on top of the brush.Assembly is pretty straight forward. Crimp wire with male pin then wrap into hear-shrink tube. Throw wire on top along the brush handle fixing it with duct tape.Wire should be long enough to reach the other end of a brush. Strip pretty decent part of the wire to make better connection with brush wires. Spread individual internal wires of your hook-up wire over the brush wires.And finally a tricky part - make it stick somehow. I used solder but glue probably is a lot better option.This is what it looks like assembled.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:32:13 pm
content: Is that brush handle made from aluminium ? If so, you could also drill a hole in the end of the handle and fit a 4mm test lead cable into the hole by some suitable means. A 4mm socket could also be installed. I would achieve the fixing by drilling a hole in the handle for the wire or 4mm socket and then another hole at right angles to it for either a machine (tapped hole) or blunt ended self tapping screw.Great idea and thank you for providing details of the brushThe SF10 remains a front line PCB reverse engineering tool for meJust thinking about it as I write this...... if a 4mm hole can be drilled into the aluminium handle, a 4mm multimeter test lead with banana plug termination would plug straight into itaOf course, if the handle is just silver plastic then all this is moot.Fraser

author: Getorix
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:38:35 pm
content: Yeah, it is solid piece of aluminium I think, definitely not plastic. But drilling into it for banana plug is an overkill for meEven if it is my second most important tool for PCB RE after X-Ray

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:38:47 pm
content: Yep, found it in the UK..... £23 thoughDescription states that the handle is aluminiumSo get your drill out, fit a 4mm drill bit, and get drilling that handle“ High temperature resistance steel brush, ideal for use when working with PCB boards.Easily remove and clean residue when repairing logic boards.Strong aluminium handle with magnetising function.”https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Qianli-ToolPlus-iBrush-Multifunctional-Steel-Brush-PCB-Board-Repair-High-Temp/274153106297?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225076%26meid%3D6243f0a1c2544809ab01148ded4d99b5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D274153106297%26itm%3D274153106297%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ad6b4b637-7739-11ea-928c-622c255b94b5%7Cparentrq%3A4a5618ea1710a4b7b67e0f26fff69b86%7Ciid%3A1Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:41:06 pm
content: Getorix ..... I sold all my high resolution X-Ray kitIt had to be done though as I was not justifying its cost with enough use.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 12:49:08 pm
content: Another ‘bush engineering’ solution might be to buy a cheap brass or steel bristle pipe brush and just bend the appropriate length of brush at a suitable angle. Attach a croc clip test lead to the metal handle and away you goCheap and cheerful but in plentiful supplyfraser

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 01:12:30 pm
content: @Fraser : it would be nice to reverse the schematic of this little device, as it is no more sold...

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:10:10 pm
content: this is what I can draw from the pictures you posted earlier.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 05:12:36 pm
content: Sadly I am pretty much buried in project work at the minute so cannot RE the SF10 for a while.Fraser

author: masterx81
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2020, 06:12:07 pm
content: I use a similar approach using the crocodile clip of the multimeter and a dremel 3mm brush... the brush have near 1.5cm of diameter

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 03:50:33 pm
content: there is one available here :https://www.ebay.com/itm/233643552361sorry too much for me !again if someone could open one and make good pictures it would be easy to clone...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:27:57 pm
content: That asking price of $250 is plain crazy. Surely a typo. I see the seller is open to offers so possibly just testing the market for best offer ?I have six of these units and to date have only used one as it is well made and has yet to fail me. Maybe I should sell some of my excess ?Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:38:40 pm
content: I must say that I am surprised that another company has not resurrected this type of unit. I use it in every PCB Reverse Engineering project I undertake and would not be without it. It saves me so much timeFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 04:56:46 pm
content: A teardown is to be seen herehttps://eladorbach.blogspot.com/2020/05/teardown-wavetek-meterman-sf10-short.htmlFraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 05:00:58 pm
content: The patent includes some schematic detailhttps://patents.google.com/patent/US5397996A/enFraser

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 05:12:46 pm
content: QuoteI would be happy to buy one at a reasonable price ...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 11:02:58 pm
content: The SF10 was £40 when still being sold. Mine are new in their packers and the later Meterman red cased model.I am open to offers for one of mine.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2020, 09:42:13 am
content: Just an update on my SF10 ‘stock’ ...... all spare units have now been allocated to new homes where I hope they will provide many years of service. I remain surprised that this very useful tool was discontinued. Those lucky new owners of my spare SF10 units can now enjoy efficient efficient PCB track tracing when reverse engineering PCB’sFraser

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2020, 12:43:50 pm
content: ...and I will certainly finish the reverse engineering of this device and publish it so that other may profit.thanks Fraser !

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2020, 02:40:32 pm
content: Getorix,You mail box on the forum reporting full.Your SF10 parcel was dispatched today. Tracking number will be sent when your mailbox is taking messages again.Fraser

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 05:13:28 pm
content: I just published the top and bottom pcb pictures, with the buzzer removed.http://kripton2035.free.fr/Continuity%20Meters/sf10.html

author: graybeard
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2020, 07:16:33 pm
content: Mike Harrison of mikeselectricstuff posted a very simple solution about a year ago.

author: marc.hickling
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 07:25:08 pm
content: Hi all we've just finished developing a version of this in partnership with a co-op out of Mohawk College. The new unit has the following advantages to the original unit:Specifications• Output Voltage: 0.5VDC• Max Source Current: 100µA• Continuity Threshold: ADJUSTABLE (Approx. 4-43 Ω)- original was fixed resistance• Brush Material: Phosphorus Bronze Bristles, Stainless Steel Case- original was hard to replace-now it slots in• New version has a slider that allows for bristles to be protected - old did not• Battery Type: 1 x ½ AA Rechargeable Lithium-Ion 3.7/4.2V, 300mAhoriginal was a fixed 2x AAA battery- new version charges via USB-C connector and does not need to be opened to change the battery like before• Switch is tactile and not slider like before - which we found wore on the original heavily after 10 years of use• Battery Life: typical 30 hours, under normal usehttps://www.mohawkcollege.ca/ideaworks/epic-case-study-electronics-3d-designhttps://www.enaelectronics.ca/blog/hamiltons-finest-mohawk-college-ena/if anyone is interested in version which is fully available and we can make as many as we need then please let me know. We use them all the time in the reverse engineering lab for our R.E work and are loving it. Very handy. For anyone interested in some of the reverse engineering work we do at ena electronics then take a look at our site for past projectshttps://www.enaelectronics.ca/engineering/projects/Marc

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2021, 12:38:12 am
content: Marc,A very interesting development and refinement of the original designIs the unit being offered for sale ? If so I would be interestedFraser

author: marc.hickling
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2021, 01:26:50 am
content: Absolutely available for sale. I have to work on some pricing (as we finished it about a month ago) and once I get pricing I'll add it here. Any questions feel free to ask or PM me :-)I love reverse engineering and tools like this are invaluable.UPDATE: We have decided that as the BOM cost is so expensive its better to open source this. Once I have the source link ill put it here!

author: marc.hickling
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 02:00:40 am
content: looks like I never posted about this:https://www.enaelectronics.ca/blog/https://www.enaelectronics.ca/blog/the-amazing-short-circuit-finding-brush-an-electronic-detective-part-i/https://www.enaelectronics.ca/blog/short-circuit-finding-brush-part-ii/https://www.enaelectronics.ca/blog/short-circuit-finding-brush-part-iii/Try those links. I hope you find everything you need. We are still using all of ours in the lab, an awesomely useful tool!

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2022, 08:44:22 am
content: how do you make the brush part ? do you have any part # number ?

author: andreathepsyco
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 29, 2022, 01:37:42 am
content: The tool looks fantastic, and i really appreciate the fact that you decided to make the schematics publicly available. Is there any chance it is possible to buy it as a finished product somewhere?

author: cunningfellow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 06:52:14 am
content: Did anyone keep a copy of the photos/schematics of this. The images have all broken from the blog and wayback machine does not have them.I am reviving an old project I never fully finished to make a continuity meter exactly as I want it and am just looking at what else is around.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2024, 10:11:50 am
content: I can't retrieve them on my drives, so I presume they have never really been published !in that case I would have downloaded them...

author: cunningfellow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2024, 12:06:42 am
content: Ah - the image links have always been broken. That is a shame.So - I am guessing by your sig lines that "shorty" is your favourite continuity tester.I have always liked the "Beepo" that was published in EA. I am on a mission to make my own that has the features that I have liked from all of them.Is there anything "shorty" does not do that you wish it did?

author: hugo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2024, 12:21:41 am
content: Quote from: cunningfellow on June 25, 2024, 06:52:14 amThere you go ...

author: cunningfellow
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2024, 02:36:21 am
content: Thanks