Another One Bites The Dust - Abound Solar Drops Like Fly - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2012, 09:42:00 pm
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Now, admittedly there is a lot of government waste, but these articles about waste refer to matters concerned with the storage and generation of Electricity. Abound Solar is just the latest of the Alternative Energy Companies to declare bankruptcy after accepting millions of dollars from the current administration's Green Energy initiative. And, as per usual they gave their executives large bonuses before declaring. See below link to article by noted Oil Company Shill Reuters.http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/10/congress-abound-probe-idUSL1E8LAD2420121010?type=marketsNews--And an article on the Beacon Energy's (a maker of Flywheel Energy Storage) recent bankruptcy by Tinfoil Hat Neocon Bloomberg News, see below.http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-31/beacon-power-backed-by-u-s-loan-guarantees-files-bankruptcy.html--Damned interesting technology though. Hopefully the Government has not screwed it up too bad, by picking a looser to bigfoot the competitors.--Also Ener1 according to an article by notorious right wing blog Politico, see below.http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72032_Page2.html--The previous administration also fell for this one: "EnerDel [same as Ener1] also received some federal contracts during the George W. Bush administration, including a $6.5 million contract in 2007 with DOE and a consortium of auto manufacturers that shared half the cost, and a $4 million battery R&D deal in 2008 from the Defense Department."--This is not the complete list by any means, but lastly, an article from the Fascist Washington Post, courtesy of the Ultra Conservative AP, regarding Solyndra's attempt at a bankruptcy "Razzle Dazzle" Solyndra, you might remember is the "Big Casino" of the administration's Green Energy rat holes. See Below.http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/attorneys-for-irs-energy-department-object-to-solyndra-bankruptcy-plan/2012/10/11/39010fa8-13e9-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html"The problem with socialism is, eventually you run out of other peoples money."Margaret Thatcher 1925 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2012, 11:28:47 pm
content: Yes, it's all such a FAIL. In spite of there being more than 80 alternative energy projects with government backing and FOUR have filed for bankruptcy (which does not, contrary to some ignorant beliefs, mean they are entirely off the hook for their debts nor even that they are out of business.)So I went looking for a list of "fails." I went looking in the neocon rags. Because it's easy, they love to cast lies and are almost always wrong because they never tell the whole story. But it didn't take long to find a list.Solar Trust of America: FAIL! - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012Still in business, as of April 26 had over 40 Million in private interim funding and has sizable assets that others will ineivtably buy if they ultimately fail. So, fail one for the neocons.Bright Source: FAIL! - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying. Can you say, “This isn’t working Mr. President?”Except it is. Bright Source operates one of the longest running solar plants in the country, and it is a proven and developing technology using mirrors and solar furnaces, and has the backing of "green energy nuts" Like Morgan Stanley, Draper Fisher, and Goldman Sachs. It also has a huge asset portfolio including 20 year contracts with two California energy providers which assures, in the very unlikely event they totally fail, their creditors will receive at least some payment.So, the neocons fail yet again.Solyndra: FAIL! - Obama gave $500,000,000 (that’s a HALF BILLION!) in taxpayer money to Solyndra who shut its doors and laid off 1100 workers in August 2011 after billions in losses due to failure to make a solar product that works! Barack Obama was not vetted before being elected President and neither was Solyndra before Mr. Obama threw that taxpayer money down the drain of unproven technology.I don't even care what happened here at this point it's impossible to get an unbiased story on this. Let's give this one to the neocons because we can afford to be generous.LSP Energy: FAIL! - LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012Wow. I can't beleive they're even trying on this one. I come from Mississippi, where LSP operates plants. In fact, there was one near my house. Guess what it burns? That oh so clean coal. In fact, they have a few. They also have contracts to sell, for example, their 286 Million dollar coal plant in Batesville, a town about 80 miles north of where I lived. See, Mississippi actually has sizeable coal deposits, and LSP had the very stupid idea of putting coal fired plants (oh noes!) near the places where they could actually dig it out of the ground rather than ferrying it hundreds of miles by rail.Neocons lose again. If anything this should cost them half the Solyndra "win."Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL! – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcyECD is one of the largest manuafcturers of thin film PV in the world. They have assets over a Billion dollars. How many Billion dollar companies do you think the government will let simply die?ECD invented and patented the NiMH battery. On that alone, even if they were a total fail today (which they are not) it would make them worthwhile. They recently shed themselves of the portion that holds these patents and require interim operating capital. Many companies find themselves in this position. Doesn't makes them a fail.Neocons lose again.Abound Solar: FAIL! - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy. Many of these failed corporations, such as Abound, donated MILLIONS and continue to donate to Barack Obama’s campaign. Can you say, “Democrat Slush Fund”? Yes this is illegal. But Democrats are being protected from being prosecuted, for now.As opposed to Soros and those other nbeocons who have openly underwritten a religious nutcase for president... ahem, let's focus on the issue.Well, the jury's out on this one until the investigation completes. But what IS known is the loan guarantee was dropped after only 70 Million dollars had been received. Not 400 Million. And, I'll point out that Federal Loan guarantees, as virtually any college student knows, stick like boogers on a finger. The gov gets their money first. So, it's somewhere very far south of 70 Million, not somewhere close to half a billion.Fail again.SunPower: FAIL! - SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony? The company is still struggling.Get this: GULF OIL is also one of the biggest PV suppliers! Oh no! What are they thinking!Thanks to dirt cheap foreign imports PV cells took a nosedive in price. Of course the company is struggling... but it's definitely not a fail.This is getting repetitive and boring.Beacon Power: FAIL! – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after Obama approved a $43 million Government loan guarantee. They remain barely in business, still struggling to make energy that makes sense or that works at all.Ummm... "last I looked, "barely in business" is rather like "sort of pregnant." That is, they're both "in."Here we go again...Ecotality: FAIL! - ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from President Obama, who wants to do some more of this kind of Democrat Slush Fund Guarantees after he is elected to a 2nd term.Ecotality is behind an intitative to build out charging infrastructure for electric vehicles. Given the absolute wealth of these things in operation today it's a miracle they're not a billion dollar corporation. Or, actually, it's a miracle they're able to keep going at all, much less the fact they aren't even in bankruptcy. Neocons just hate electric anything except shavers.Fail another one for the neocons. This one counts as an outright lie.That's about 2/3 of the list I found, I'm bored now. This is the best the neocons can do, but alternative energy is a "fail."Hilarious.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 12:36:33 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--After perusing Pop's post carefully I could find no reference to the articles I cited. Instead he has chosen to respond to articles I did not cite. The old switcheroo, very clever.--And here I thought Pop was not going to bother with me any more, having previously stated ""That's HILARIOUS! No Sarge, I'm not even going to bother with you anymore because there's obviously no thinking behind the helmet on this matter. I would suggest, in the future, you put even a tiny bit of effort into finding some sources that are not sh*t brown with the stain of crude."--And it a way, he kept his word. He certainly did not respond to the articles from Rueters, ABC, Bloomberg, and Politico, who not many people take for Oil Company Shills. I guess that is because he agrees the articles I cited are correct.--Keep in mind Pop's previous contention that frack wells cause toxic pollution for miles around in 20% of cases. When challenged he mentioned a Nature article about a single fracking site. Nature found well contamination at that site. The field had 169 well and 33 surface pits. Pop then divided the surface pits into the wells to prove his 20% of all cases conjecture. To this day he still contends that I am the one with poor math skills. Go figure."Get ready, little lady. Hell is coming to breakfast."Chief Dan George 1899 1981Best RegardsClear Ether

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 12:47:22 am
content: Poptones made some good points, why don't you address them? Oh wait, you can't./Troll Out

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 01:24:20 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Tom66 has stated "Poptones made some good points, why don't you address them? Oh wait, you can't. "--For once at least Tom66 is correct. I cannot address the "good points", because the links to the sources for these "good points" as per usual, are not provided, merely the bald assertions. How can I refute an article if I do not know where to find it, or the article it claims to refute. I do not state that these undocumented assertions are either right or wrong, merely that they have nothing to do with the post they claim to be answering.--Now, clearly I provided links to the articles I mentioned. I invite Poptones to do the same and provide links to the "Neocon" articles he say are wrong, as well as any articles proving them wrong, so everyone can read them and judge for themselves. Merely saying "look it up" is far from adequate, I.E. Aliens Have Landed, look it up, feh. Why the peculiar aversion to providing links to sources?--Just how do you divide surface pits into wells, anyway?"Measure twice. Cut once"Norm Abram 1950 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 01:33:31 am
content: Isn't it funny how sarge is able to find all these neocon articles to bitch about but is apparently completely devoid of any skills on using search engines?Here's a clue sarge: take any one of the quotes I posted, paste it into google, and amazingly, you'll find the source. Although I see no reason you'd need to since the quotes were obviously copied and pasted directly and unedited.Got anything to ad besides more ad hominems?

author: PuterGeek
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 01:52:46 am
content: Okay, I'll bite. And this is only from looking at your referenced articles.So is your problem with Abound Solar is they only got $70 million which made them collapse or are you whining about chump change? Or are you upset the House is wasting time trying to find another blue dress rather than breaking out of their record as the least productive Congress in 50 years?Beacon filed bankruptcy so they didn't have to make a $39 million loan payment. Fortunately they built a nice 20 MW plant in New York that is generating revenue and is also collateral.Ener1, the parent of the company that got the help, guessed wrong on electric cars so they and their creditors want to restructure the credit terms.Is your complaint on the Solyndra bankruptcy proceeding that the private equity firms involved couldn't slip one past the IRS and DOE?You're missing the forest for the trees in all of these. Just like the corporations want, you are focused on their media while they are raping and pillaging. The corporations have been quietly rewriting laws thru their financial influence for 40 years while we've been paying attention to all the Democrats and Republicans yell at each other. Regulations have been gutted, corporate profits go largely untaxed (down to 8% of tax revenue in 2010 from 32% in 1970) and the wealthiest corporations receive 'welfare checks' (excuse me 'subsidies') financed by you and me.Do you really think the corporations will do a better job looking out for your interest than the government? Do you think you or I have equal footing with the corporations in the marketplace? Who if anybody do you suppose might be worried about the ability of a college graduate can earn enough to payoff their student loans?How many of your bosses would you EVER want running ANYTHING let alone your government?

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 03:03:12 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Pop has alleged that a long list of Green Energy Company Bankruptcy fillings is incorrect. No need to go any further, Dear Reader, unless you are tempted to believe Pop's claim. Did he really think no one would check his work? I prove below in the six cases I studied that Pop is completely wrong and that the article is indeed correct. I was pretty sure that this would be the case, when Pop refused to provide any links for his assertions that the article was wrong. In any case I did as Pop said and goggled the first item on his list and I came up with the list he referred to, see link below.http://www.dividedstates.com/list-of-failed-obama-green-energy-solar-companies/--Now I will take the first six items Pop says are wrong one by one, and prove that they are indeed correct and (unlike Pop) I provide the links.--1)Solar Trust of America: Pop says the article is wrong. The article says "Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012" and Reuters says:"Mon Apr 2, 2012 3:52pm EDT ... Solar Trust of America and several affiliates filed for protection from creditors with the U.S. bankruptcy court in Delaware. It estimated to have as much as $10 million of assets, and between $50 million and $100 million of liabilities." [No cigar for Pop on this one.] Link provided below.http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/02/us-solartrust-bankruptcy-idUSBRE8310ZV20120402--2)Bright Source: Pop says the article is wrong. The article says "Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close." and Bloomberg news says:"BrightSource Warned of Embarrassment to Obama in Loan DelayBy Jim Snyder - 2012-06-06T20:18:59ZBrightSource Energy Inc. (BRSE) warned Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. [So no cigar here either.] Link provided below.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-06/brightsource-warned-of-embarrassment-to-obama-from-loan-delays.html--3)Solyndra: Pop agrees with this one.--4)LSP Energy: Pop says the article is wrong. The article says "LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012." The Deleware Bankruptcy Court Website says:Delaware Bankruptcy Court Case number 1:12-bk-10463Judge Mary F. WalrathChapter 11 Filed Feb 10, 2012Type voluntaryDebtorLSP Energy, Inc.200 Industrial DriveBatesville, MS 38606PANOLA-MSTax ID / EIN: xx-xxx1174 [Sorry Pop the article is correct] Link provided below.http://business-bankruptcies.com/cases/lsp-energy-inc--5) Energy Conversion Devices, Inc.: The article says "On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy" Reuters says:Feb 14 (Reuters) - Lightweight solar product maker Energy Conversion Devices Inc filed for bankruptcy protection on Tuesday, the latest in a string of solar companies that have collapsed in an industry shakeout.[Alas, still no cigar] See link below:http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/14/energyconversion-idUSL2E8DE5M2201202146) Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. Pop says the article is wrong. The article says "On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy" The Wall Street Journal says"February 14, 2012, 1:07 p.m. ET - Energy Conversion Devices Inc., a pioneering Michigan-based solar-technology company, filed for bankruptcy protection Tuesday with a plan to slash its debt and sell its business at a court-supervised auction. The Auburn Hills, Mich., company filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Detroit after it was unable to come to terms on an out-of-court deal with its convertible bondholders, according to Michael E. Schostak, director of business development at Energy Conversion Devices. [Those cigars sure are elusive] Link provided below:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204795304577222991181931050.html7) Abound Solar: Pop says the article is wrong. The article says "Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy." Reuters says:"Oct 10 (Reuters) - U.S. Republican lawmakers on Wednesday pressed the Obama administration for more information about its decision to back, and then stop funding, a now-bankrupt solar company, with a report now saying the company may have been selling a faulty product." ["now-bankrupt solar company", no cigar here either] See link below.http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/10/congress-abound-probe-idUSL1E8LAD2420121010?type=marketsNews--Whew, well that is enough for now. Of the six items that Pop alleged were false all six were easily proved by documented sources (to which I provided the links) to be correct. I would prove the rest but, is there any real doubt that the results would be the same. Apparently Pop thinks that if he sees activity at the building, the company is not in bankruptcy, go figure."Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"Carl Sagan 1934-1996Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 03:36:20 am
content: ROTFL. Again, the neocon tells hal the story. In fact, he told THE SAME HALF I TOLD and debunked.Do you even know what Chapter 11 means? Apple computer was almost in Chp 11 at one point. GM was in ch 11 and has now paid off their debt completely. Chrysler was in ch 11 twice now, and they're still in business. It doesn't mean "fail" it means "fix." Even that half moronical parasite Romney understands this.You suck at this. I really do believe you're just a wannabe astroturfer trying to make a name for himself.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 03:52:31 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Poptones has said "ROTFL. Again, the neocon tells hal the story. In fact, he told THE SAME HALF I TOLD and debunked.Do you even know what Chapter 11 means? Apple computer was almost in Chp 11 at one point. GM was in ch 11 and has now paid off their debt completely. Chrysler was in ch 11 twice now, and they're still in business. It doesn't mean "fail" it means "fix." Even that half moronical parasite Romney understands this.You suck at this. I really do believe you're just a wannabe astroturfer trying to make a name for himself."--I do not see any denial here. Pop did not refute a single item. I see little chance of the Government ever getting its money back from these companies. If bankruptcy is success, look for more success in the administration's Green Energy Initiative in all 57 states."It is no good to try to stop knowledge from going forward. Ignorance is never better than knowledge."Enrico Fermi 1901 1954Best RegardsClear Ether

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 04:45:59 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Ah, yes, more well reasoned discourse from Poptones. If anyone is waiting for me to sink to the level of profanity, name calling and picture defacement, they will have to wait a long time. I am perfectly happy to confront and debate the facts. When posts like the last one are made, I consider that there must be trouble obtaining facts to support the argument. I have saved the picture and shall forever consider it a badge of honor, although I probably will not post it as I would have to follow the rules.--From DanHeller.com:Images must be licensed, even for non-profit, non-commercial uses.*Images are provided at 300 dpi in JPG format.If you need to print at a higher size, order the largest size listed.Prices listed are for one image on a single-use basis. (For multiple uses, email me.)You are responsible for how images are used and whether other permissions may be needed.Photo credit: "Photo © danheller.com" must be used.--On second thought I have deleted the image, since I am not sure it is even legal to have a defaced image, without paying and labeling."For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."Richard Feynman 1918 1988Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 05:21:39 am
content: I am perfectly happy to confront and debate the facts.ROTFL again. Sarge, you're just a cut up tonight!

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 05:38:18 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Poptones has said "I am perfectly happy to confront and debate the facts."--If he really means this, he could start by telling everyone where to find the Nature article he says proves that frack wells cause toxic pollution for miles around in 20% of cases."I wear suspenders and a belt. I am a security man all the way"Justin Wilson (The Cajun Cook) 1914 - 2001Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 05:42:30 am
content: Wow. Are you really so forgetful in your old age that you do not recall saying just an hour or so ago what you mistakenly attribute to me? Saying "I said it" because I quoted you is utterly a lie in any context.More lies from the neocon.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 05:57:12 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Poptones has said with regard to his contention that fracking causes toxic pollution for miles around in 20% of cases that "Wow. Are you really so forgetful in your old age that you do not recall saying just an hour or so ago what you mistakenly attribute to me? Saying "I said it" because I quoted you is utterly a lie in any context."--I cannot quite figure out what is being said here, but I will do my best.--I invite everyone to see the screen capture of Poptone's remark below.--I did manage to find the Nature article Pop refers to and indeed it does mention ground water contamination in a 169 well field in Montana, it also mentions 33 surface pits.http://www.nature.com/news/is-fracking-behind-contamination-in-wyoming-groundwater-1.11543--What I do not get is how you can divide surface pits into wells and get a result that proves the contention in the below screen capture.“Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice."H. L. Mencken 1880 - 1956Best RegardsClear Ether

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 06:29:12 am
content: Yeah, you just answered it completely. You're a troll.What I don't get is why you would be so stupid about it. Do you think gettign me to reply to you is worth you looking like an utter fool? I'll admit my share of stupidity in even bothering with you, but you seem to be baffled by the simplest assertions at every turn. Do you lack self awareness, or are you simply suffering from dementia?Can you still taste your food? That's an early sign. So is an inability to deal with numbers, a trait you have aptly demonstrated here. I hope you don't still drive and I hope you get to a doctor before it's too late for your kids to help you.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 06:40:08 am
content: Greetings EEVBees:--Is Pop denying or admitting he made the statement in the below picture? I admit I have never seen the Shilly Shally danced with more gusto in my life."I'll have the Alfalfa sandwich, and the smashed yeast"Woody Allen 1935 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 08:17:25 am
content: *Watches argument from a distance*I don't understand such negativity against green energy. Didn't the Big Three get bailed out by the government anyway? Why not let those die?

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2012, 10:30:15 am
content: Because they're old and basically rehashing the same stuff every year with very little innovation.When you get old, nothing new is worth developing because, hey, what the fuck are you gonna do with solar electricity in 30 years when you're already almost dead? When you get old, all that counts is your social security...