Soldering station (EU) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ephesos
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 08:16:31 pm
content: Hi,I'm a software dev, with a basic understanding of electronics, so please excuse any ignorance below.I'm looking for a soldering station in the 100 to 150 Euro range for my father(he is an electrical engineer). He has a few side projects at home, and uses a home made soldering gun together with an old station that doesn't work as well as it used to.I googled a bit and looked through older threads on this forum and others. Ersa products seem to have nice price/quality ratio, and theiCon Picofits into the budget. I also found some good recommendations for theXytronic LF-3000which is a bit cheaper than the Pico nano, but is rated with a bit more power, and appears to weigh more(does that mean better build quality/future proof?).Also, I've read that soldering guns provide more power/heat than a station, so I'm not sure if I should also look for something like theWeller 8100Currently I am leaning more towards the Xytronic, as it seems to be build a little better(to my totally ignorant eye).Are there better picks in this price range for the EU market? Also, what extra tips should I buy(maybe spares too?). I don't want to ask my dad these question as this will be part of a birthday present.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2015, 10:28:59 pm
content: Couple of notes.Definitely get a temperature controlled station.I'd skip the Xytronics with that budget, and get a unit made by a premier manufacturer.Get one that has ESD protection (Ersa iCon Pico does not have this; Nano does).The one model that would fit your budget given your location would be:Hakko FX-888DThese are the next closest, but will exceed your stated budget. They are however, better performers than the Hakko FX-888D (initial heating and recovery are faster).Ersa iCon Nano*Weller WS81* Price includes VAT. Also would be the better choice between these three IMHO.

author: bianchifan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 01:18:09 pm
content: Quote from: Ephesos on March 25, 2015, 08:16:31 pmengineer and soldering gun..I ahrdly can believeI'm using an Ersa MS6000 for decades..sadly new tips (payable) are hard to find.I'm just on the way for grading up my SMD stuff, I'm tired using all those 20W micro stuff..I decided to give a cheap chinese model a chance, a 936 copy, YouYue 936 for 24 bucks from ebay.It will be pimped up later.Your pointed Xytronic's iron is the same, absolutely.You may grab them for 10 to 15 bucks in chinese stores.Or pay 40 to 50 bucks at Reichelt or Conrad.Anyway, you will get tips elsewhere, ebay or local store.Go for Ersa, Ersadur may be best choice for tips, or go for a 936 derivate.The LF-300 is such a derivate but there are cheaper ones.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 02:05:46 pm
content: 936-like designs are flawed - an air gap between heater and tip results in poor heat transfer. Go for Ersa.

author: Ephesos
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 26, 2015, 06:49:49 pm
content: This is the review that led me to the Xytronichttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-and-teardown-of-xytonic-lf-3000-soldering-station/The insides and iron seem different from the 936 based designs some of the above posters mentioned, for example:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/huakko-936c-soldering-station-%28hakko-936-clone%29/and it seems to have ESD protection.The posters there seem to rate it better than the 888, but I am unsure on how it compares to ERSA.

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2015, 07:50:26 am
content: No iron (handpiece) teardown there. A simple test: unscrew the 936's tip holder tube, hold the handpiece so the tip points down - will the tip fall off the heater?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 27, 2015, 10:48:27 am
content: Quote from: bianchifan on March 26, 2015, 01:18:09 pmAFAIK the big distributors carry all the Ersa tips. I'm still using an MS8000 soldering station (with a newer hand piece) but I no problem getting tips. I'd spend money on tips instead of buying a new soldering station. Ersa's tips may be expensive but they last extremely long. I never had to replace one so the value for money is excellent.

author: bianchifan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 03:19:34 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 27, 2015, 10:48:27 amMaybe that's the point, I'm still using the original delivered handle, CT60 (should be TE40).Quote from: abyrvalg on March 26, 2015, 02:05:46 pmUnfortunately the air gap is my main problemThe heating diamater is 6.5 mm, the inner diameter of current 832 tips 6.65 to 6.7 mm plus a nut for clamping..Next problem, the "contact" part is about 1cm shorter and the neck is all equal, it doesn't taper any more.All in all the heat transfer is much more poorSo when using a pencil tip most heat will be lost.Rising the heat over 350° C up to 400° C and maybe more will compensate only for a short time because the handle becomes too hot, 350° C is the max. allowed temp for the handle.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 03:50:51 pm
content: That 936 style xytronic is shite compared to Ersa. Ersa soldering iron is not only powerful but also very tiny. Temperature sensing/regulation feedback is order of magnitude better too. Size comparison, that is usual i-tool, not pico, but is of the same size and uses same tips:

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 03:54:17 pm
content: Quote from: Ephesos on March 25, 2015, 08:16:31 pmThose are joke, not a real tool for soldering.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 09:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: bianchifan on March 28, 2015, 03:19:34 pmMy hand piece says CT80 but it works just fine with the 83x and 84x tips. The newer hand pieces have a groove to keep the tip in place but that doesn't seem much of an advantage to me. Either way you can use a newer hand piece with the soldering station you have. Ersa didn't change the heating elements.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 28, 2015, 09:28:57 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on March 28, 2015, 03:54:17 pmAgreed. I've got one of those, don't know from where:http://www.tme.eu/en/details/wel.robust-05c/soldering-irons-and-guns/weller/t0050500299/#There's more power in a cigarette lighter. This is really a POS.

author: Ephesos
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 04:15:33 pm
content: Well, you guys convinced me, I will buy an ERSA, probably the Pico.Thanks for the feedback!

author: hli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2015, 09:49:15 pm
content: I got myself an iCon Pico end of last year, and couldn't be happier with it. Its quite small, and it heats up really fast. With my old station I turned it on, and then went and grabbed all the other stuff needed for soldering. Now its the other way round - it takes maybe 15 seconds or so and its up to temperature. With the iron itself being so light-weight it also feels great when working with it, I'm more precise with it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:19:36 am
content: Quote from: Ephesos on March 25, 2015, 08:16:31 pmQuote from: Ephesos on March 29, 2015, 04:15:33 pmRight now,Amazon France has the Ersa i-con Nano on sale. It's €193, and then you put in the coupon code BRICO500 to get 20% off!! That brings it just over your budget, and it'll be a top-notch station. I just ordered one for myself.Note that even with the 20% off, soldering tips for the Ersas are cheaper on amazon.de.

author: gmit77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 09:23:40 am
content: hello, just to inform you we are back on stock with FX-888D both colors B/Y and Silver

author: radix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2015, 11:09:45 pm
content: If anyone plans to buy Ersa stations in Europe, contact your local distributor. It could end up being cheaper than amazon and the like. The price for an Ersa i-CON NANO is 149€+VAT.

author: bianchifan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 10:28:30 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2015, 09:26:13 pmMaybe I decided for the less perfect tips, yesterday I learned that the 842 series would have been the better choice.The 832 were on sale, I got them for about 3 Eur eachNevertheless the 842s seems to be quite equivalent to the original CT60 tip (the bottom one)Quote from: wraper date=1427557851thx for the photo, I'm sure to order such a pencil when building my pimped station

author: Ephesos
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 05:02:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 01, 2015, 09:19:36 amThanks for that, I hadn't placed the order yet! Ordered it from Amazon France.I considered the Hakko, but with taxes included it cost around 147 Euro, and the sentiment seems to be that the Ersa is a better unit. Hope it arrives before May 4th.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2015, 07:06:10 pm
content: Also check eBay. My current soldering station was under 100€. It's a used METCAL STSS-PS2V-02.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 01:23:02 pm
content: So I've played a bit with my Ersa nano, and so far I am happy. Here's a little mini-review.The iron itself is smaller and lighter than I expected. (It makes me intuitively think that it's not suitable for soldering heavier connectors, wires to sheet metal, etc, but it probably has enough power to do those just fine, with a larger tip.) The cord to the iron is thin, light, and flexible. I love it!The base itself is very heavy for its size, feels very solid. The small size is great for me, since I live in a small apartment and do not have a dedicated workbench and thus need to be able to stow all my tools away after use. The soldering iron holder is rubber, not plastic, and works rather nicely.It heats up insanely fast. There's literally no reason not to turn it off when tinkering, because it heats up in the time it takes me to line up and flux the joint. Its default mode is one of pumping a LOT of heat into the iron when heating, so it heats fast and maintains minimum temperature very well. This mode does, however, tend to overshoot the setpoint temp by about 20C before settling down to the setpoint. For delicate things, it may make sense to use a microSD card to program it to one of the lower-energy modes that heat more gently, but don't overshoot as much (medium mode) or at all (low mode).In practice -- bearing in mind that I have been soldering for decades, but have only ever done it with shitty 15 or 20W garden-variety soldering irons -- it seems great. So I can't compare it to other soldering stations, but so far I'm loving it. The quick heating means it's ready to go quickly, and responds very fast to touching the tip to larger joints. The thin cord is a revelation. My hand isn't tired after using it, as is the case with thick, stiff cords.The only things I would improve -- and I'm nitpicking here -- are:The LCD is not backlit.The soldering iron's plug into the base station is actually the type of connector I normally expect to see only inside a device. (It is however, very well strain relieved.)The base station has no rubber feet. Only the friction from its substantial weight keep it from sliding around on the feet molded into the case. Not a real problem in use, just surprising.The manual is a joke. It covers the safety stuff, but none of the interesting features. For those, see the manual included with the programming software at:http://www.ersa.com/index.php?modul=download&cat_id=20If you plan on using multiple tips, I strongly suggest getting additional ferrules (Ersa part number 3IT1040-00 for black, 3IT1045-00 for green), since they're a pain in the butt to get off a tip. Since they're only about €5, I think I'll get one for each tip I have. With a separate ferrule for each tip, changing tips takes just seconds.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 03:11:05 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on March 25, 2015, 10:28:59 pmHow important is it in hobbyist setting?I would think that if the tip is grounded and you use an ESD wrist thing, not much can happen.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 04:57:28 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on April 12, 2015, 03:11:05 pmWell yes, but that's exactly what isn't the case in the i-CON Pico: its tip is not grounded, as I understand. (The heating element is ceramic, and the ferrule that screws the tip to the handle of the iron is plastic.)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 12, 2015, 05:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 12, 2015, 04:57:28 pmOk, I thought the non ESD'ness is about the plastic material used for the handle, cable and case.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2015, 02:28:47 am
content: Quote from: zapta on April 12, 2015, 03:11:05 pmIt's important if you want to eliminate the potential for ESD damage when soldering (combined with a mat and wrist strap).Quote from: zapta on April 12, 2015, 03:11:05 pmThat should be sufficient for hobbyist use IMHO as well.As mentioned however, the iron used on the Pico is NOT grounded, so whether or not ESD plastics are used wouldn't matter. Not sure if the Pico and Nano share the same PCB (w/ different parts populated), but it would be interesting to see if a Pico could be modified with a reasonable amount of effort and expense IMHO, given the price difference exacted by Ersa between the two models.

author: jaset
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 10:48:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on April 01, 2015, 09:19:36 amThanks for the heads-up. I just ordered one delivered to the UK for £112 (inclusive of VAT and delivery) - outstanding deal

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 04:09:34 pm
content: So...Hakko vs Ersa.Did the Hakko myth got busted?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 10:55:49 pm
content: what myth?

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 02, 2015, 11:11:12 pm
content: Quote from: abyrvalg on March 26, 2015, 02:05:46 pmI've got this problem. I tried to put some foil, but this gave a marginal improvement. Does this mean there is no good Chinese stations at all? I was thinking of buying a cheap Chinese station with iron, fan at preheater. Now I'm not sure if any these tools can work properly.PS I tried to replace the iron on my 936D, but the new iron had a male plug instead of female. I replaced the plug as well, but the station couldn't measure the tip temperature and stuck at 51C. Are there incompatible heat elements on the market?

author: abyrvalg
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2015, 07:40:21 am
content: Quote from: exe on May 02, 2015, 11:11:12 pmMy opinion: chinese fans are ok (hot air is hot air, not many things to do wrong there), but for iron I would prefer a scratched/stained used one from serious brand than shiny new "936".

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2015, 04:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: bianchifan on March 26, 2015, 01:18:09 pmabsolutely not, did you even bother looking at it? at the guns and tips? voltage? technology used? 36V AC with separate heater and thermocouple is as far from shitty 936 clones as you can get

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2015, 05:30:06 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 04, 2015, 04:50:51 pmWhat about price and availability?