russian hypersonic missiles - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 03:28:02 pm
content: What do you think of this? I want it to be NATO designated Ferret because the animations show it running around like one.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:25:31 pm
content: Expensive toys which won't really change anything as far as I can see. Almost all wars are proxy wars against 1970's era tech countries or insurgents nowadays. Even with a conventional payload these things are far too expensive to waste on that.Low flying supersonic missiles/UAVs seem more likely to be relevant, even then only to one conflict ... China Taiwan.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:28:20 pm
content: i think the problem is that it can get aircraft carriers good?

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:30:36 pm
content: Low flying ones yes, but that's not what Russia is talking about.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:30:41 pm
content: Would Russia advertise its cutting edge capabilities like that? I always assume powers don't give away their latest and greatest, or have alternative motives. There's something to be said for having your adversary spend a lot of money and resources on a phantom threat. One of the benefits of having a single long term leader is that you can effectively play long games, rather than changing course every 4 or 8 years.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:34:56 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 30, 2018, 04:30:41 pmOf course they would - even if they didn't have the capability!That's the entire rationale behind M.A.D.Even on a smaller scale, a two-by-four LART can deter an attack, or consider that a prime benefit of a burglar alarm is to persuade a would-be thief to go somewhere less risky.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:37:42 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on December 30, 2018, 04:34:56 pmSure, but it pays to have an ace in the hole. The US didn't reveal its stealth bombers until they became old technology either, although we should assume the people most interested in that probably already knew more.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:39:31 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on December 30, 2018, 04:28:20 pmThis is their response to the missile interceptors that the US has been deploying abroadbtw is your nickname related to shaped charges?

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 04:50:15 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 30, 2018, 04:37:42 pmNot always.Game theory can reveal interesting alternative ploys.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2018, 05:28:06 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on December 30, 2018, 04:39:31 pmno its a biconical antenna made of big copper sheetscoppercone 1 would be a disconehttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKosJ2r99XTcgwI6vJeGpaHIS0oDX_IxQ1WZVuPCu5UGjQ5XPlBwlike this but I made the impedance/angle wrong, I think it has a bad impedance but a wider doughnutits twice as high as wide rather then equal width and height for 50 ohmsso its like 55 degrees from the point.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 am
content: Do You know any REAL product from Russia?I dont know russian phones, testgears, auto,etcSo stories about russian top weapons no more than Hitler Vergeltungswaffen during WWII for me

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:00:03 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 amI know a few real ones,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irkut_MC-21https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-14_Armatahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Aircraft_Corporation#Productshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornethttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:02:30 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 amIf you don't know does not mean they do not exist. Thanks for letting us know about your ignorance.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:03:33 am
content: he means products that are not designed to kill or instill fear.

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:06:43 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 11:03:33 amI don't think he meant that, russians have technology and have extremely good scientists, yet the west would like to have them isolated.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:12:06 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 11:03:33 amThere are Russian cars, airplanes (I took a ride in those). There are Russian ICs made. Russian and western brand TVs are made in Russia. We have Russian made Osram fluorescent bulbs installed at my work. American Atlas 5 rocket uses Russian RD-180 engines...

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:12:17 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 amSo more than 25000 wounded, more than 10000 dead and more than 20000 houses destroyed in UK during V1/V2 WWII campaign was imaginary to you....You confuse consumer items (like smartphones) with military/space technologies. Former USSR didn't care about consumer items, so they didn't even try to make it. They put their efforts solely to military applications. And made many highly sophisticated and many not so sophisticated but highly effective weapons systems.. They had and still have fantastic scientists and are at the cutting edge in many areas...The fact that they don't make pink smartphones for teenagers is irrelevant in this discussion..

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:23:10 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 11:12:17 amIt is too small for mystery top weapon. Hitler was failed, isnt`it?Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 11:12:17 amLooks like B-movie stampEvil siencists etcQuote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 11:12:17 amDo You mean what they can`t make teenageers or phones?Once I visited Moscow city. Siberian wild muslims and used german cars are everywere.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:25:00 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 11:23:10 amMuslims are not from Siberia. A lot of those German cars were made in Russia.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:29:24 am
content: Quote from: wraper on January 03, 2019, 11:25:00 amSo they actually wild. I cant imagine they like siensistsLook to this photo. This is some clergyman and russian rocketQuote from: wraper on January 03, 2019, 11:25:00 amBut You post LG TV-set photoAnd it looks like china rebaged unit

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:34:25 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 amI do, own fewgoodgreat Russian silver mica caps, and they're even better than the metrology grade GR reference cap as verified by one of forum member here.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:38:29 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 03, 2019, 11:34:25 amIt is marked as 1988 year. It was USSR time and unit is not actually "product" but some millitary part

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:42:00 am
content: Those are old days ... now this little cute thingy called S-400 has made Uncle Sam experiences a terrible head-ache ... just watch the article's date as its recent.https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/05/asia/india-s400-deal-intl/index.htmlhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/05/india-wants-to-buy-russian-missiles-to-counter-china-influence.htmlhttps://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/americas-big-fear-turkey-mixing-f-35s-and-russias-s-400-air-defense-system-25152https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-new-russian-built-s-400-missile-system-threat-taiwan-40187

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:42:29 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 11:29:24 amLG and Samsung have manufacturing plants in Russia. As well as BMW, Audi, Toyota.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:45:08 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 03, 2019, 11:42:00 amDo You gremlin from Kremlin? Who will work in fields of undemocratic sience?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:46:44 am
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 11:45:08 am

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:46:55 am
content: the s-400 will get destroyed MALDs, HARM and JSOWs, they made them to overwhelm russian defenses in a large scale conflict.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:49:17 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 11:46:55 amWhy would it? S-400 is more than capable destroying those.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:49:45 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 11:46:55 amOf course, infact any BB gun as long its made from US, will be effective against S-400, no doubt about it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:59:05 am
content: You can make 3000 malds for 60mil.look at cost and complexity of s400 system and how many are in service400 million for 112 missiles.its 20k/3.5 million, same exchange rate as the rubble pretty muchyou can probably program the non destroyed ones to land so you can reuse them too.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:59:43 am
content: Hating somebody doesn't make them stupid....And fanboy nationalist "my nuke is bigger than yours" discussion is always leading nowhere.None of us here have NO CLUE about real capabilities of any weapons system that is cutting edge. Vital parts of specs are highly classified.All public statements are marketing, propaganda and most of the time outright disinformation.Only real thing is that all this "better this, better that" is crap. Even old USSR (or USA) missiles from 1960ies can wipe out whole Europe in few minutes.And yes, Russia and China are superpowers, have very smart scientists and are at the cutting edge of research in many areas..

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:32:16 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 11:59:43 amDo You know some names?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:35:33 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 11:59:43 am+1 , but for me, it is really interesting to observe and watch the "reaction" about it, either from the pro and con sides.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:37:12 pm
content: STOP!!!!!!!!!!NO AIR IN SPACE!SO SOUND SPEED IS ZERO!!ANY ROCKET CAN BE NAMED AS "SUPERSONIC"STUPID RUSSIAN MARKETING

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:50:33 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 12:37:12 pmYet another instance proving how clueless you are. It's hypersonic glider. And there is a lot of difference between supersonic and hypersonic.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 12:51:26 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 12:37:12 pmAgreed, those Chinese, Indians and Turkeys must be really stupid to buy that flying sausage S-400.Btw, just a personal assesment, do you feel uneasy , threatened or in deep anxiety when everytimes you read or heard these words ..... China , Ayatollah , Kim Jong Un , Putin , Kremlin , Iran .... and etc ...Yep, its as expected, you are perfectly "normal".

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 01:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 12:32:16 pmYes.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:24:56 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 01:56:33 pmWellTell us who is thatIs it some russian muslim scienciests?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 02:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 02:24:56 pmLOL you really have no clue, are you?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:04:58 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 02:31:12 pmYep, its embarrassing and what a pity.You have to understand, lots of people there are living in alternate reality, and being brainwashed since they're born.Have friend from military force, shared with me that US military forces, certain level there are tests at certain section, the cadettes were hook up with probes, sort of lie detector or stress level monitor, and then a lecturer speaks out just like a normal innocent generic speech. And then in those speech, some words were inserted like ... Ayatollah, Chinese Communist Party, Allahu-akbar, Putin, Kim Jong Un, Teheran .. etc, and they will measure the "changes" , and also words like London, NATO, Ottawa, EURO money, Pentagon ... etc.Just leave the rest for you to imagine.

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 10:31:04 amYep, it seems even the russians don't exist, they are only a legend for scaring the americans...omg, you never saw a russian device, do you.Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:18:34 pm
content: Quote from: perieanuo on January 03, 2019, 03:12:46 pmI google for some russian auto and see what This is russian riot control police busLooks like armored train from XIX century

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:20:52 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 03, 2019, 12:51:26 pmI see the appeal of being able to shoot down a ballistic missile that is launched by accident, its actually probably a good thing to have a few of these sprinkled around by different actors to keep the world safe. If something goes wrong its not the worst thing to have a independent party with different command and control systems to essentially save the world.On the other hand, it is more dangerous for commercial and private space traffic, because someone can possibly shoot down something non military by accident. The more reaction time the better, which hypersonics make scary. Someone like India might actually contact the Kremlin or NORAD to confirm whats going on if they have time. If there is no time then kaboom.However, to call it a air defense solution against NATO is kind of a joke, it is just not economical. They will deplete your missile stock pile, then go back to an aircraft carrier and come back later at best. It is too expensive.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 03:20:52 pmI never hear abot russian aircraft carrierIt can`t exist since seas around Russia are frosen

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:18:34 pmDon't get me wrong neither, I'm in natoand counting on this...but I saw years ago russian equipment and I can tell it's heavy stuff compared to what I see in France...sturdy and ready to travel to the moon and back.Exactly what european machinery misses this days, here we really cut the costs on every piece of hardware ending with some sh...tty product...Regards,pierreEnvoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:23:46 pmNATO has plenty of aircraft carriers and air bases??

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:26:55 pm
content: Quote from: perieanuo on January 03, 2019, 03:24:34 pmWell, with military hardware cheaper is better because it should never be used and it hurts everyone progress as a society to pay for that. Russian apartment building and road condition vs missile force condition...Robust scientific equipment is essential to progress though IMO.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:28:23 pm
content: At leastWhy russians so agressive? The goverment spend money for top weapons, isnt it?Is for muslim purposes?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:33:34 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:28:23 pmTheir weapons are very psychological and very focused on giving small groups of people maximum control. This is why they load up icbm's like crazy with mirv and have giant ships. it also looks good.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:34:16 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:28:23 pmRussians? Check how much US spend on weapons.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:34:52 pm
content: But US is not agressive

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:40:03 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:34:52 pmReally? How about Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria? BTW I don't get if you are really serious about Muslims? Those are orthodox Christians on your photo.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:42:37 pm
content: literary every one of those countries was waging war or had a history of waging war on the civilian population with military arms. some with weapons of mass destruction.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:52:01 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 03:28:23 pm001 your ignorance is beyond imagination. Russians are orthodox Christians, not muslims. Guess you do not receive much education down there in Antarctica.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 03:42:37 pmDid US find WMD in Iraq? That's was an official reason for invasion. In Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya US caused more human deaths than all of dictators combined. And now those countries are in poverty, experience power vacuum, and are ridden with terrorism. They were much better places with those dictators.Talking about Syria, among Muslim nations it was among those with most of human rights. US supported rebels and did not admit those were linked with terrorist organizations. Only relatively recently they admitted IS in Syria. And now EU needs to deal with all migrants flowing from that region. Nicely done.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:54:08 pm
content: 001 is on a mission on this forum to bash Russia.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 03:54:56 pm
content: yea saddam did not use chemical weapons against his own population. why would you trust him. troublemaker. he used scuds on his own people.a government should not reach that state ever. those guys had a rap sheet fifty miles long.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 03:54:56 pmThat was used against Kurds 2 decades before the US invasion. There was no WMD by the time of US invasion.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attackQuoteGood reason to kill half a million people for a reason of "protecting human rights".

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:01:24 pm
content: Quote from: Bud on January 03, 2019, 03:52:01 pmReally? Note their beards and strange golden dresses

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 03, 2019, 04:01:24 pmLOLhttps://www.google.com/search?biw=1707&bih=972&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=CzIuXIehDOGDrwTV1L3oDQ&q=orthodox+christian&oq=orthodox+christian&gs_l=img.3..35i39j0l9.4207.6585..6867...0.0..0.69.456.8......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0i67.gTkwFtJj-sc

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:04:18 pm
content: alright why was he not letting weapons inspectors do their thing as per the treaty? he violated a treaty. no one knew what was going on. its like someone violating their parole. do you just let that slide? whats the point of a treaty then? did they say his government needed to obey 50% of it? what do you do invade it, write up all this paperwork that is supposed to bring justice then just let it slide?normally for that to happen in court there needs to be alot of good will and cooperation and public good stuff going on. this guy was just like a con that wont let parole officers into his house. and he did not do any community service or nothing. what are they supposed to do? he did a bunch of crazy bad shit, got off on a treaty and then started interfering with everything. you cant do that in a civilized world, other wise no one will ever decide to do a treaty to end a war. look what happened after WW1 treaties were being violated.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:12:35 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 03, 2019, 04:02:48 pmWell he can't be that thick. He's trolling.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on January 03, 2019, 04:04:18 pmThere were inspectors and they did not find anything. US still proclaimed Iraq was hiding their WMD and started the war.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destructionQuote

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:19:09 pm
content: Anyway, we should stop talking about politics. This thread is already a good candidate to be shut down by moderators.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:20:16 pm
content: bad choice of words on his partIn 2001, Saddam stated: "we are not at all seeking to build up weapons or look for the most harmful weapons . . . however, we will never hesitate to possess the weapons to defend Iraq and the Arab nation".thats not even denying it or saying we don't have any. its some passive aggressive threat shit.you don't say that if you gassed a town before.this level of cooperation is unacceptable if you committed a genocideOn March 7, in an address to the Security Council, Hans Blix stated: "Against this background, the question is now asked whether Iraq has cooperated "immediately, unconditionally and actively" with UNMOVIC, as is required under paragraph 9 of resolution 1441 (2002)... while the numerous initiatives, which are now taken by the Iraqi side with a view to resolving some long-standing open disarmament issues, can be seen as "active", or even "proactive", these initiatives 3–4 months into the new resolution cannot be said to constitute "immediate" cooperation. Nor do they necessarily cover all areas of relevance." Some U.S. officials understood this contradictory statement as a declaration of noncompliance.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:26:00 pm
content: What's not to believe? Even CIA themselves wrote report in which they officially admitted WMD report in Iraq was falsified. People resigned in CIA over that.Not to mention when people from USA start explaining what happened in Yugoslavia. What was sold to american public is full fiction.All that has no bearing to what is a topic here. Enough of propaganda.Which is : Is Russian Federation capable of producing highly sophisticated hypersonic weapons? Yes they are, quite scary ones. Pretty much state of the art.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:39:08 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 04:26:00 pmWhy? How they do it without MIT graduate?

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 04:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on January 03, 2019, 04:12:35 pmOh no no, he is that stupid. Trust your instincts.Here's his precious imaginary christ with a beard kissing men in robes, while wearing a golden halo (probably a schizophrenic hallucination of the mentally ill people who invented religion)https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-kiss-of-judas-by-giotto-di-bondone-c-1305-fresco-scrovegni-chapel-54402659.html

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 05:35:52 pm
content: One of the WTF'est threads we have read in a while.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 06:03:34 pm
content: For those who are interested, Russia/USSR has a long history of developing quite sophisticated UAVs since the 1950s, using powerplants from turbojets to ramjets. They were designed for a variety of roles - many were reconnaissance drones with quite interesting mission profiles, such as that for the Tu143, below. It's big brother, the Tu139 was a fully reusable UAV, with a very impressive capability.Indeed, the Russians were developing UCAVs in the early 70s, the Korshoon being a noteable design. This was capable of carrying a 1,100lb warload, though the system never flew as the CofM Presidium's Commission on Defence Matters ordered Sukhoi to turn the project over to Tupolev. Development ground to a snails pace after the end of the Cold War, however - for a while the Russian Army only had the Yakovlev Pchela-1T in service, with the distinction of having seen action in the Chechen Wars.The Russian's have long taken a different approach to UAV/UCAV design and mission profiling - they were really leading the forefront of such design ab initio, until the end of Cold War. The developments made since the mid 00's (primarily pushed by Russian private companies funnily enough) have made real progress and the UAV/UCAVs we see are entirely within their technological means.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 06:22:22 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky49 on January 03, 2019, 06:03:34 pmSwedish ufologists are very interested in a wave of UFO-sightings in the 1940s that they call ghost rockets.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_rockets

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 06:26:43 pm
content: Yeah, I suspect that those were related to Soviet Alsos. A really interesting period of history with great minds on all sides.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 08:08:09 pm
content: Not to say Russia isn't aggressive, the Novichok affair was obviously quite aggressive, but this weapon isn't ... it's just part of the MAD race.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 08:36:22 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 03, 2019, 05:35:52 pmReminds me of the quote 'never wrestle with a pig, you end up covered in mud and the pig enjoys itself'. HiHi

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2019, 11:01:13 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky49 on January 03, 2019, 06:26:43 pmIt was. Some people are currently investigating if they can retrieve one that sunk in a lake according to eyewitnesses. Seems like a long shot, but would be very interesting to see the technology used up close. What I don't understand is how they appear to have navigated autonomously given the technology at the time.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 12:56:42 am
content: Quote from: apis on January 03, 2019, 11:01:13 pmWould be cool to see that, for sure. I suppose it depends on how advanced the navigation was - straight lines were pretty much nailed with pendulums and gyrocompass in the V1, which were put into a dive with an odometer to count distance and explosive bolts/guillotine to jam control surfaces. Seeing how advanced other mechanical machines could be, I think it's a possibility that a more intricate version could be made to perform slightly more advanced maneuvers, considering the automata built in the in the 16th century I think it would be marvelous to entertain the idea that similar devices could fly a rocket around before (electronic) computers.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 04:16:34 am
content: At least since WWI there have been efforts to develop overwhelming superweapons. Many have been developed and deployed. All with claims of how the opposition will be helpless against them.Some have been used in battle over the years. And in many cases the results on the battlefield were dramatically different from the pre-use marketing hype. Reasons include lack of real capability, inadequate quantities, poor application, unpublished capabilities from the other side and many others.No one has the sole set of keys in this area. All players have weapons with very high lethality. I suspect if they are used in earnest there will be many surprises on both sides of the conflict. The only sure path is to not use them and convince others not to also. Which is unfortunately in the same difficulty class as developing these super weapons.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 07:44:09 am
content: why not just ban Russia from owning weapons?

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 08:12:03 am
content: :Quote from: 001 on January 04, 2019, 07:44:09 amLOL, Kind of like simply banning all wars?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 05:17:37 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 04, 2019, 07:44:09 amIt's like me banning you from your home. I may try to do so but somehow reality check tells me you will just say me to fuck off.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 06:12:09 pm
content: I made two errors in my previous post. First, I meant to say that the real solution is to not develop such weapons, and to convince others to also not develop them. And second, I suggested that not developing the weapons is in the same difficulty class and developing the super weapons. It is clearly in a much higher difficulty class.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 06:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky49 on January 04, 2019, 12:56:42 amI love those old automatons, it's amazing what you can do with only gears, cams and linkages!The main difficulty with navigation is that errors tend to accumulate over time. That is why IMUs are difficult to make since the tiniest amount of noise and bias will quickly add up to a catastrophic error. You really need additional information from sensors to give you absolute location data every now and then. I wonder if they might have used some, for the time, advanced radio navigation system, or radar or some such. If they were supposed to take photos/video, knowing the correct position would have been important.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 07:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: apis on January 04, 2019, 06:15:39 pmIt's not just IMUs. You can measure the magnetic field, airspeed, altitude, time and more. Combined you should be able to pull off some fairly fancy flight patterns. Considering some of the navigational tricks that were pulled off with radio beacons in WWII, that seems a real possibility too.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 07:25:52 pm
content: Quote from: apis on January 04, 2019, 06:15:39 pmAs early as the 60s some aircraft (including the SR-71) and some missiles (including theSM-62 intercontinental cruise missile)have used automated astro-inertial navigation systems, where star positions are used to automatically correct the inertial guidance.This article, conveniently posted the other day, gives a bit of information how these systems work. Even modern military aircraft like the B-2 still have celestial navigation systems to supplement/backup their GPS/radio positioning systems.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 09:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 03, 2019, 12:50:33 pmHypersonic and glider are mutually exclusive terms -- if you use a rocket to boost the missile to hypersonic speeds and then the missile "glides" it will rapidly cease being hypersonic. Drag and Physics is a bitch.Brian

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 09:36:18 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on January 04, 2019, 09:10:40 pmSorry, but to say hypersonic and glider are mutually exclusive is incorrect - hypersonic glide vehicles utilise a skip-glide trajectory. HGVs (and not just the lorry flavour) are a well established category of vehicle.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 09:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on January 04, 2019, 07:25:52 pmThat gives a new meaning to "sending a message with snark"!

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 09:50:49 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on January 04, 2019, 09:10:40 pmNice to make conclusions without knowing what you are talking about.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 10:28:14 pm
content: This tread looks like old myth about russian cavalery on bearshttps://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Bear_Cavalry

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 10:48:46 pm
content: Quote from: 001 on January 04, 2019, 10:28:14 pmhttps://youtu.be/t-eT0EAlC14https://youtu.be/Su5-PG19dQE

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:12:53 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 04, 2019, 09:50:49 pmHey, I'm not stopping you, go on and tell me how a missile is both a glider and hypersonic? About the only way that makes sense is if the missile is a powered missile for most of its flight and then, as it nears the target, the engine is cut and it 'glides' to the target. That might reduce the thermal image a tad, but only a tad as the nose and leading edges are going to be frickin hot.But, again, please do enlighten me...Brian

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: Sparky49 on January 04, 2019, 09:36:18 pmOne could argue that ANY missile, particularly ICBM's, are gliders as they are unpowered after separation from the booster. The idea as I understand it is that this missile remains in the atmosphere the whole time and for that to be a glider is, well, ridiculous.Brian

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:30:29 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:55 pmOne could argue many things, including both the truth and the fatuous.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:32:09 pm
content: can a scramjet do vector thrusting at those velocities to change course, the russians love vector thrusting. its actually superior to american technologies afaik, they developed fluidic circuits. maybe they have a hypersonic fluidic circuit directing some kind of ceramic nozzle.. but the momentum is intense

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:38:13 pm
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on January 04, 2019, 11:15:55 pmIt has huge kinetic and potential energy and glides in upper atmosphere layer where drag is tiny compared to drag at sea level. At such altitude it's more difficult to reduce speed rather than keep it high. The issue is withstanding high temperature for prolonged time.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2019, 11:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 04, 2019, 11:38:13 pmIf the missile is generating a lot of heat that heat is draining energy -- there is no free lunch.Brian

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 12:03:10 am
content: Quote from: ajb on January 04, 2019, 07:25:52 pmInteresting. That would work well for aircraft that fly above the troposphere (those ghost rockets were supposed to fly very low though). I'm curious how they could pull off astro navigation in the 60s without CCDs and computers (CCDs were invented 1969 according to wiki) was there other types of image sensor before that?

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 12:23:43 am
content: Quote from: raptor1956 on January 04, 2019, 11:50:51 pmI don't think anyone is saying that there is a free lunch... There are numerous varieties of missiles, and plenty of ways they travel. Many missiles flying at ground level have a motor which burns for a short period, leaving the vehicle to travel along a ballistic trajectory to target. Other missiles such as the BGM71 have much longer burns, and can flown to target with wired controls - so long as the motor produces more thrust than the weight of the vehicle it will fly (ie, thrust to weight ratio > 1).Planes, gliders, and hypersonic gliders, have mechanical features which also generate lift. Most planes use wings to do this. Other aircraft, such HGVs, rely on the shape of the body to generate lift. HGVs rely on skipping on a boundary of thicker air, similar to how a stone may skip on water. The stone 'flies' along this boundary for quite some distance, skipping multiple times and rising into the air despite having no form of thrust. An analogy can be drawn to the mechanisms behind HGV flight.You are correct when you say there is no free lunch. You are incorrect when you say hypersonic and glider are mutually exclusive terms.

author: Sparky49
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 12:26:56 am
content: Quote from: apis on January 05, 2019, 12:03:10 amI'd also be interested to learn about this tech. I've heard stories about it, but nothing in any detail.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 05:51:23 am
content: Quote from: apis on January 05, 2019, 12:03:10 amUse the vacuum tube, Luke!(Either photomultiplier or image-tube).

author: duak
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 06:05:26 am
content: You don't need CCDs to track stars because you can use use a star tracker:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_trackerThese were used in 50's & 60's missiles for navigation.Here's some background on automated celestial navigation systems:https://ad.usno.navy.mil/forum/kaplan2.pdf(Firefox gave me some security warning) Probably used a Photo Multiplier tube on a sextant.Being aerospace, it'll have all sorts of mechanical gew-gaws on machined aluminum structures all connected with those neatly laced wiring harnesses. Be neat to have one to play with.Cheers,

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 11:34:31 pm
content: You could keep a telescope with a photo multiplier at the eyepiece pointed at a star and then measure the angles, you would need one for a few different stars. But what would you do if you loose tracking, how find back to the right star again? It seems like it would easily get lost.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2019, 11:55:32 pm
content: This weapon could reach Sydney within 35 minutes of being launched from Moscow, thereby wiping out the EEVBLOG. Putin would not be so stupid. Even Trump first checked if the EEVBLOG would be affected prior to shutting down the US federal government.