How to promote an USB oscilloscope to individual engineers? I am the Loto instru - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:02:50 am
content: In 2019,I try to put my energy into promoting USB oscilloscopes/signal generator product in oversea market (beyond china). As a founder of loto instruments, I used to pay my attention on developing them with my team.As soon as the software and hardware are stable , i need to sell it abroad china. We spent 3,4 years in china,R&D,sales.Dear Engineer friends, what are your suggestions? How do I start, the first step to promote the product?Should we do a discount, a sales campaign, or a performance appraisal campaign, or a crowdsourcing campaign?I can promise engineer friends here a good discount if you have a suggestion. I made two videos to introduce，though my English is not so good:

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:09:49 am
content: I'm a complete newcomer for overseas market.Any way of cooperation, I will seriously consider, such as writing promotional articles, acting as a sales agent, recommending it to other engineers,recommend retailers for me?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:25:37 am
content: "High DPI display" is not a function of your instrument, it has no display. +/- 5V input is also a bit low.What are the actually important characteristics, like memory depth, for example?The best way to promote this is to send one to Dave for teardown and review. Or at least post some pictures of the internals here.From what I see this looks pretty weak, even for $100.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:47:34 am
content: Hi , dear ataradov, thank you for your reply and suggestion. Is Dave an expert engineer here? how can I contact him?Most this kind of software i see do not support the High DPI display feature until now.+-5V is for X1 probe, switch to X10， it would be +-50V.I put some picture here ,i don't have a board by hand ,so i will photo it on Monday and put it here.Well, in fact, this kind of product is plugged into the computer, so its main functions and features are in the software.The hardware has been cut to the maximum extent to maintain its high cost performance.Software on computers can be updated with new functions at almost no cost.So we can keep upgrading this product remotely with no charge any more.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:56:16 am
content: You appear to have software for editing videos yet you have these painful low resolution videos with tons of down time and high background noise. You don't have typical specifications available... What does your scope have that makes it worthy of my money over picoscope? Or even hantek? How about some high res pictures of the insides? Most manufacturers won't give you that but they don't need to because people know who they are. Dave is the one who owns this website.EDIT: Your english isn't really a problem.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:56:55 am
content: Dave operates this forum and corresponding YouTube channel. Here the contact infohttps://www.eevblog.com/about/contact/What if your definition of "High DPI display"? "High DPI" is a property of the display, and you don't control what display I use. What does this feature actually do?So far this seems sort of weak on all sides. Not sure why I would pay $100 for that.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:58:30 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 27, 2019, 03:56:55 amI think he means it supports High DPI scaling natively so it doesn't look like garbage?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:00:31 am
content: Quote from: maginnovision on January 27, 2019, 03:58:30 amPossibly, but I'm not sure that this is really worth to put this on a list of features, unless you just want to pad it with random stuff.Also, the second video saysQuotewhen you try to play it here. Probably not the best move for a promotional video, which you embedded yourself.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:05:47 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 27, 2019, 04:00:31 amI've tried a bit of chinese software and I'd say it's borderline worth mentioning, but not as one of just 5 functions of the software for your oscilloscope. You'd probably just have high resolution modes in a list of supported video modes.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:15:43 am
content: I think you are correct. Engineers here may can't understand DPI problems in Chinese software, you can see this problem with hantech. and i can hardly explain it how i feel about it.That's right i should not put it in my main features. I should change it to supporting DIY modules. such as a ECG module, a signal generator module ,isolation module...It's quite cheaper than pico, AND It really can't compete with it . it's better than hantech but with no competitive famous.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:20:31 am
content: thanks a lot ,very usefull suggestions

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:32:14 am
content: thank you , i learned to fix the video problem just now ,it's ok now

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:33:26 am
content: Some of the better points you have working for you is a standalone device in a similar market is $400 AUD, if your attacking at a lower price point then as long as it has equivalent or better functionality, then the user cost of having to have a computer on hand to use it can be overcome.Bonus points if the software doesn't require an installer or admin privileges to run. so it can be used on whatever computer is available instead of one you lug around.Key points that i cannot see at a glance on your marketing material- Is the USB draw less than 500mA under all conditions? (A number of laptops will disconnect the port if more is drawn)- What is the memory depth of the device (I assume 128K from one image, but that uncertain)- What is the resolution of the ADC (8 bit, 12, 16? more?? and what is the effective resolution, if your 16bit ADC is only repeatable to 14, then it would be a 14 bit scope)- What decoders are supported (one of your images hints at it, but "what we are interested in" doesn't really cut it. This is where you can make a large lead over standalone scope)Then there is just technical translation, like "afterglow" on your notes is commonly refereed to as "waveform persistence" in English technical literature.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:47:12 am
content: Hi ,Rerouter .Thank you for you suggestion.Yes,it can used on any computer with windows ,especially for win8,win10, on which do not need driver installation.but you need a appliction software. I suppose nowadays , almost every engineer has a computer ,so i build this kind of product for virtual instruments.sure ,it draws about 170mA current from the USB hub,so we don't need to worry about it, it much less than 500mA.Yes,it's 128K ~ 2G depth. 128K for hardware chip storage,but 2G is for computer harddisk,when you sample slow, it stores data directly on harddisk.8 bit ADC for each channel.for now ,i just developed iic and rs232. other decodes may be later for free.it's just software function, customers download a new sw to fullfill it.i put tow decodes in the attachment.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:47:37 am
content: In the video you try to look at a waveform with x1 probes that is relatively high frequency... Why? Are you trying to show me how not to use an oscilloscope? If they're both supposed to be 1Mohm inputs I'd fault your scope on the basis that they have different amplitudes. Why would you look at a 25MHz signal 4Vpp and switch to a v/div range that maximizes error? That whole video should be trashed. It seems poorly thought out, poorly edited, and deceptive. You could at LEAST make sure the v/div and time/div settings are the same. Why don't you have a x10 or x100 selection for software? For comparisons I'd also prefer you do one at a time with a direct connection if you want to look at x1 performance or at least a splitter. Although the whole exercise is lost on me, are you trying to say the probes you made are better than rigols when switched to x1?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:59:21 am
content: You are omitting some critical technical details. Your thing has far too slow of a sampling rate to be a scope, so it is more of a logger. But for a logger, you need to specify waveform update rate and how long the gaps in the data are. What triggering options are implemented in the hardware and what are implemented in the software.You have to provide actual technical information, not the marketing BS, especially give that it is clear that you are not very good at it.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:00:28 am
content: thank you maginnovision,but things not like you thought.I made that video not for promoting my product here.It 's a trouble shooting explanation.Maybe it's because of differences in national conditions or cultures. Most of my clients don't know the sincerity of the probe.Many of our customers will question us and say something that they can't measure the frequency higher than 10 trillion sine wave. Then we found that most of them used a X1 probe to test a high frequency signal. So i made that video to show how osc802 act in both X1 and X10 gear and compared with a expensive desk top one.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:08:12 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 27, 2019, 05:00:28 amThen I think you're better off not showing anyone how to improperly do things. Show the right way and maybe they'll follow your lead.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:11:24 am
content: Yes , ataradov, you are right.Engineers prefer to discuss specific technical details.otherwise, I want to know what the engineers think about the application scenario of this product.I haven't done technology for years, maybe more like a businessman.So there may be misunderstandings, and because my English is not very expressive, oh, what I think.So it looks more like a salesman fell among a bunch of engineers.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:13:51 am
content: it's my poor English expression 's fault....

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:17:27 am
content: dear ataradov:I aimed low end market,do you think it's proper for Junior Engineer, Electronic Enthusiast, Field Maintenance use?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:22:34 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 27, 2019, 05:17:27 amI don't know. We have not seen any real performance evaluation of the thing. We have only seen an unwatchable shaky video that does not really show anything.For not much ore you can get a better PicoScope, which has plenty of independent reviews and good reputation.I'm not saying that the product is bad, but you need to take all the feedback provided here seriously and implement the changes, not just acknowledge issues.Ans I would reach out to a few YouTubers and send them a review units.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:31:36 am
content: I'd also say if this thing doesn't have isolated inputs you need to make sure people are aware of that. Especially for beginners.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:32:06 am
content: Hobbiest level, e.g. Arduino type userIf you have protocol decoders like SPI, I2C, Uart, then yes there is some room, I2S would probably catch people from the audio side of itElectronics enthusiest, harder to say,Feild maintainancewould need to handle up to 50V without damage on the inputs, If you wanted to poke at automotive then Canbus is a good decoder to have. CanFD would put you well ahead of the competition, Expecially when tied with playback. As at present there are very few tools out there that you can capture a signal on site and replay it with minimal fuss for under $700,In reality just about every country keeps there industrial signalling under 50V, 24V and 48V are the more common higher ones,Again if it works with an X10 probe, then fine, just make sure it can survive being hooked up to 50V direct to the BNC.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:41:52 am
content: I had another video to show the input protection,but i have not translate it into English, may be you can get it with Chinese.https://m.youku.com/video/id_XNDAxODA1Mzk4MA==.html?spm=a2h3j.8428770.3416059.1&source=&from=timeline&isappinstalled=1in the video ,i input a 60V voltage into a +-5V input,it's ok.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:54:18 am
content: Another point people outside China does not like to use Youku, Contract a Vpn and upload to youtube instead.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 05:58:59 am
content: Yes, I took the risk to come out of the Internet wall. I will do it later.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 06:42:00 am
content: 1st thing 1st before you spend 4 solid years on RnD. you do market research, meaning you gather all your possible contenders and try to beat them, or try to make something special about your scope so it will stand out. have you done it? can you beat the price of Hantek? or what special about your product? can you beat the spec of Picoscope? are you aware of those names? otherwise i'm afraid the situation will be like when the Sink is on the ground and the Gate goes high and your money and time is on the Drainin such a case, dont send your device to Dave otherwise it will be a reversed dumpster dive show, good luck anyway. btw there are faster way to check your scope bandwidth compared to your exhaustive video, ultraman fast rise time pulse circuit is one of them, and err, dont use 1X probe for such a test unless you have a 50 ohm input scope. fwiw.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 08:44:23 am
content: 1) Do not start posting all over the forum about your product or i will ban you as a spammer2) Send one to Dave and he will do a review of it. If it is good you will get the best advertising that no money can buy. If it is bad you product will just sit on amazon waiting for unsuspecting buyers.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 08:53:49 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 27, 2019, 08:44:23 amis that one of eevblog forum's rule?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 09:00:14 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on January 27, 2019, 08:53:49 amErr yes, it's called spamming. Promoting of commercial products on the forum without prior arrangements is the definition of spamming. I don't mind a single topic like this but if the OP starts posting links to his product on any discussion about oscilloscopes it becomes spamming. Like i say the best way to get this promoted is send one to Dave like everyone else does.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 09:06:58 am
content: Quote from: Simon on January 27, 2019, 09:00:14 amwhat about putting ads in signature? it will reflects in all posts, from the beginning till the end = post count. regardless of thread topics?Quote from: Simon on January 27, 2019, 09:00:14 amimho, dave is one way to get publicity (if the product is good) but its just a small part. how do we expect small one single man starting business to grow? google ads (which to me is "unsolicited") costs money.imho you should reply in the offending post in the other thread, here he asked for advice.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 09:18:07 am
content: Oh dear, how long have you been a member here?Forum signatures are not spam in themselves. BUT if a user makes nonsensical posts in threads just to get their signature to show then they are also banned as spammers. Don't worry my friend we have all options covered and i am trying to be fair. Many spammers join, post nonsensical posts and then update their signature thinking that they have gone under the radar which is why nonsensical posts get a user banned as we know that game already. The OP has joined this forum purely to promote his product. That in itself is grounds for banning but as he is being more engaging than the usual hit and run spammer I and giving him some space. I cannot be fairer than that.If you have a good product and you send it to Dave it's the best thing you could do. Also apparently there is no such thing as bad publicity......I'm sure Rigol owe a lot of their success to Dave for that initial review of their famous scope. I bought one because I saw Daves review. It was not a promotion it was an honest appraisal of something i knew little about from an engineer, what more could I AND Rigol ask for ?

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 10:16:34 am
content: Thanks for advice, Simon,I wont do that. On Chinese technical forums, spammers are also not welcomed either. I'm familiar with Chinese fellows' thinking, but i am frustrated with this global new group of engineers. I really don't know how to embrace them, what they care about, what way they are thinking.I learn a lot difference between us today,I think I will try my best to promote it from this 0 base. I may record some progress and share them here,maybe some engineer fellows ,especially junior ones, want to see how I run a product successfully or make it dead?I will contact Dave for a further help.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 11:55:48 am
content: Hi Jiangtao,I'm no expert on this, but to me the student/hobbyist/maker market is very different to the "professional engineer" market. You probably need to treat them separately. Professional engineers probably already have an oscilloscope, or could easily find the money to buy a 100MHz/1Gsps oscilloscope. So the real question is why would they spend extra money to change to your product? In addition, unless the company uses some particularly special equipment, engineering time in most western companies is far more expensive than the cost of electronic test equipment (I am not sure if it is this way in China). So people (well, at least the smart ones) will be wary of purchasing unknown equipment that could waste the time of their engineers.To me personally, anything with less than 1Gsps @ 8bit is not an oscilloscope, regardless of how it is marketed; it is a data logger. The market has simply moved on from that. I don't see myself buying an 8 bit acquisition device with a lower sample rate ever again.Non-paid testimonials are very important as well; you should contact people like dave jones/eevblog, mikeselectricstuff, etc. These people may not be very visible in China as they are mostly youtube-based, but they are very well regarded elsewhere in my experience. Be aware that these people will tell you exactly what they think (or at least I trust them to do that!); if they think the product is rubbish they will make a video telling everyone that it is rubbish.Some other points:- your website seems to just show a forum with garbage posts; most of them are just silly pictures or keyboard mashing. This looks pretty bad.- the downloads section does not actually have any downloads, and "more details" links do not actually show more details. This also looks pretty bad.- you may need someone who is a good native english speaker to proofread and correct your documentation and website. Even though I understand there is a language barrier and that it is difficult, if I read documentation with poor english and yet the company is trying to sell me (an english speaker) their product, it looks to me like they just want to take my money and run. It's different in conversation/forums/etc because people realise that you do not have any time to prepare or proofread.I suggest you look at the picoscope website and forums; after all, they would be your direct competitor. I am a happy picoscope customer myself!PS: I'm not proud of this last point, but I've noticed that if I see the SimSun type fonts I become immediately suspicious of the accuracy of the documentation. I guess it is because I have used many Chinese electronic products/parts with incorrect or poor quality english documentation, and I have now subconsciously associated that font with poor quality products in generalI've never seen a product from a non-Chinese company that uses that font. Western companies have mistakes in their datasheets too, but they don't all use the same font

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 12:11:34 pm
content: thank you ,jeremyIt's very useful advise.Yes, I haven't get my website prepared. So I didn't put it on,but you may found it on the pictures.Download part also not be prepared for overseas.I agree with you about the difference of the student and professional engineers. Where do you find SimSun type fonts ? the data sheet pictures?Honestly, I can't tell the different fonts of English characters easily. So,as you say ,i really need a English native engineer to cooperate with me to complete my overseas work,do you have anyone to recommend?Someone who is interest in this lower market and eager to do something?

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 12:26:52 pm
content: I’m sorry, I don’t have anyone to recommend. But I don’t think you necessarily need an engineer, just someone with a very good grasp of written English. Perhaps you can use the services of someone onhttps://www.freelancer.com/for example? Searching for “English proofreading copywriting” on google turns up lots good looking results.The SimSun stuff was in the last few images in this post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/how-to-promote-an-usb-oscilloscope-to-individual-engineers-i-am-the-loto-instru/msg2153086/#msg2153086As I said, I am not proud that I make association, but I am sure that I am not the only one.

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:08:40 pm
content: I will not claim to be an expert in any way on the cultures in either Asia, the EU or in the US, but I will just report my observations:I think in the west, there is much more emphasis on professional-looking/behaving instruments and software. Here, professional-looking/behaving means:- A consistent design style (One, maybe two fonts, consistent colors, consistent layout of menus)- Good language skills- Not too much flashy or colorful design elements - stick to simple and subdued.I think the second point is the easiest to solve, but for some reason very few asian companies seem to get it 'right' by which I mean - they have not altered their product to the western market when they tried to enter into it - what might be desired and considered 'good' in Asia might be considered bad elswhere, and vice-versa - the cultures are simply different. Contact western translator companies and ask them for help. I remember someone from Adobe once say: 'All it takes is to contact your sales guy in the west, show him your product, and say 'Do these things make sense'?

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:12:41 pm
content: Hi，I get confused, is it my English understanding problem or you didn't finish it yet?

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:15:57 pm
content: I accidentally submitted before I was finished.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:21:54 pm
content: ;that's fine.I may be choose a wrong start point here, I should show why is it, not what is it,because you are all well-trained and experienced engineers here,not the junior ones I usually met.Do you think so?

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 27, 2019, 02:21:54 pmI think it is still very valuable to show what it is, but it has to be done very 'rigorously'. You don't say 'good', or 'bad', 'much', 'fast'. You need to give numbers. Trained engineers want numbers because they give us a pretty objective way to compare stuff. If brand A has 1 uV/sqrtHz noise and brand B has 0.8 uV/sqrtHz noise, I know what difference I can expect. If both just say 'Low noise' I know nothing.Also don't fear explaining in detail your specifications. I can only speak for myself, but I am more than willing to take time to go through documentation when looking at a new purchase.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:33:50 pm
content: Thank you very much,I will try my best to prepare a documentation of it as soon as possible to put it on here to receive your further advice,as well as its hardware photo.I get much valuable advice today, thank you.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 02:45:40 pm
content: I can only give my own experiences with looking for technology,Generally if there is a specifications tab on a web page, I will follow that before I walk through the marketing fluff "features" page, As that is my quick go/no go as to whether this device is relevant to what I am trying to do, Very similar to the first page of a component datasheet, It gives you the at a glance sense of what the device is good for. And if it is worth your time. e.g. 128K sample memory is not much, but as a streaming scope, its a decent buffer providing the link can keep up.Next if it peaks my interests, I'll skim the features page looking for clarification on those interesting bits, If I cant see anything there, I may open a video or even jump to the manual and text search it. If I am struggling to still find something mentioned in the spec sheets at this point I will generally turn away.As for video content, I would say the model of short and sweet videos focusing on particular features, E.g. this is how to use and setup decoders, this is how to setup your triggers, This is what you can do with math functions. You can still do overview videos, but to fully go over everything a scope can do in detail generally takes close to an hour to pull off if not more.Your video in the first post if a good example of poor audio, there is background noise and your voice is too quiet, The content is not that bad, but its hard to sit through videos where your struggling to hear everything they say.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 03:03:15 pm
content: Dear Rerouter:You are right,I will redo some videos when I enter this overseas market and solve these awful problems. After a week, all Chinese will have a vocation to celebrate the Spring Festival ， I will do it after the vocation.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:38:14 pm
content: Sort your website first and then send the product to Dave to review, once he reviews it your website may get quite a bit of attention and Dave will likely visit during the review.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 27, 2019, 04:47:12 amWindows only? Fail... many engineers use Linux nowadays. Even the big CAD software makers like Altium and Cadence are porting their products to Linux. Also many people use Windows XP or Windows 7. Make sure it works on Windows XP at least for maximum compatibility.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2019, 04:49:56 pm
content: Yes, it works on Win xp,Win7,WIN 8 ,WIN10, but not support linux. We had a team for linux ,but I did not pay their attention to this product, they do embedded computers for industry.It will also can work with Android on phones, but will takes some more time , I put a sample photo in attachment.

author: trobbins
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 09:36:41 am
content: Lots of Androids around that could use a low power hardware interface via USB OTG. One less chance for mains hum to ingress if just Android battery is used.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 01:33:14 pm
content: Hi， trobbins:I agree with you in theory, but in fact, I used a isolated DC-DC module on the board to supply a +-5V power for the analog chips. So I think the noise level of the whole circuit may depend on the performance of this power module.I attach the HW board pictures here. The power module is pointed by a red arrow.the result (zero-input noise)is:±50mv ----1v/div selector ----±5V input range±25mv ----500mv/div selector ----±2.5V input range±10mv ----200mv/div selector ----±1V input range±8mv ----100mv/div selector ----±0.5V input range±4mv ----50mv/div selector ----±0.25V input range±2mv ----20mv/div selector ----±0.1V input range

author: trobbins
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 01:49:07 pm
content: are you saying the noise is lower when you use a battery/linear reg to provide 5v rail compared to that dc/dc module?do you have enough pcb room to add typical datasheet LC filtering, or even local C filtering?

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 02:06:14 pm
content: The vendor of power module recommend no LC filtering, because that will change its load character.I only use several C. I did not try battery/linear reg , because I need -5v power supply. I did try a TI LDO to supply -5V, it's not good enough. I'm satisfied with this power module till now.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2019, 04:47:09 pm
content: I like that PCB! Looks very neat.Some things I would do differently:- That large D-Sub connector looks so outdated, not to mention the limited number of insertions. Sure a nice Molex board-to-board connector would be way nicer;- C6 and C10. Are those variable caps? What are they adjusting, exactly? I never saw anything adjustable on a board since a long time.Keep up the good work!

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:19:42 am
content: Thanks brabus:I used two 37 Pins D-sub connectors as you see, it indeed limit my extension, I use every pin now with no one spare. Users are not suggested to disassemble and install this module too often, so the main consideration is the price factor in my choosing this connector. Honestly, a couple of these connectors takes me less than 0.5 $. I put a picture in the attachment about what it looks like in the final.C6 and C10 are used in the signal input attenuation network. In a low frequency input situation, I can regardless of the caps, but in a high frequency situation, i need to adjust them right as a factory calibration before ship to customers. Show in attachment:

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 08:56:53 am
content: As this is clearly a toy, I suggest going after the maker market, not professional engineers.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 09:21:08 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 31, 2019, 08:56:53 amHi,NANDBlog:Is there a good forum for these maker in the west or USA? Could you recommend it to me ?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 09:27:28 am
content: this forum covers a very wide range of users from the absolute beginner to the very experienced.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 09:49:26 am
content: hah,it seems too experienced for me.

author: brabus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 02:33:27 pm
content: You know, if your product is good and attractive, the maker movement will find it and love it (and buy it!).But if you try to seel something to the maker community, be prepared for a high barrier. A maker rarely is a pioneer when it comes to tools: it has to be noted and reviewed on some relevant place, like here, or Hackaday, or Sparkfun, just to name a few of the top boards.

author: bayati
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:22:25 pm
content: Check this out:http://www.tnmelectronics.com/English/LptScope.htmThe 20Mhz one is about 150$ in Iran. Due to the sanctions and high price of oscilloscopes, you can have a good market in Iran.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2019, 03:30:39 pm
content: nice,20M here takes 50$~60$. 25M takes about 90.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 11:28:50 am
content: Finally , I finished the DS for it. There is a limitation for the size of attachment,so I depart it into two.

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 02:50:06 pm
content: Quickly looked the first video, looks bogus to me. Starting from noise comparison, then capturing 20MHz signal with *X1* probe... And somehow a 200MHz scope (with effective bandwidth over 350MHz, afaik) gets worse reading than a 50MHz one?? I won't be surprised if 50Ohm termination is set incorrectly. On top of that the title says "performance of USB oscilloscope OSC802 comared to the desktop one". This simply doesn't make sense at all. You are implying that your device is better, but it's clearly not. The whole video looks like a hoax from start to end. That's the worst advertisement you can do for your product in engineering community.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 08:18:13 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 19, 2019, 11:28:50 amGood looking datasheets. A few comments.Features:1. Add "weight" to the first line (up to 210g) - it helps with the claim of being "portable"2. Remove "provide". "General Purpose I/O interface (TTL 3.3V)"4. Remove "provide". "Open software API for third party development"5. remove "with no additional power required"9. Supports serial bus decoding (selected models)Applications: it seems there is a mix of product features and the applications. A few examples I found are:2. What is "Embedded in teaching equipment"? Perhaps re-write to: "Embedded electronics courses for the educational market"3. "Ripple and noise measurements for power supply characterization"4. "Serial bus decoding of multi-sensor systems"5. "Analog data acquisition systems" This seems to be a feature and not an application. Also, "DIO control"? Perhaps re-write to Digital I/O control6. "Current and Voltage recording" is a feature, not an application. The application would be "Solar power supply and lighting systems"- "Diagnostics device for field engineers"I would remove the periods at the end of every sentence inside the table. Usually periods are not used in this context.The Specifications table on pages 2 and 3 of the second datasheet have confusing headers. At page 2 there is a black bar with four columns with model numbers, while at page 3 the same four columns are shown without a header, only to change to three columns all of a sudden.Also, the placement of the 20mV/div on the "Typical" row at the end of page 2 is strange.I would also move the physical specs, temperature, compliance and languages to the end of the table.Perhaps add a section that talks about the minimum specifications of the PC software and the Android app.The table "At a glance" should come after "Applications". It allows people to quickly grasp the most suitable product for them.At page 4, the DB15 drawing on the right has a tabulation issue with the pin 12 description. Still on this page, the description for pins 8 and 9 are smaller, which could instead be extended out to have the same font size. If horizontal spacing is not enough, you could have a single drawing and simply describe pin 9 as "9:IO4 (only on OSC48x)"Page 5: there is no space between the M and the Hz, as well as the numbers and their units. For example:10x: 60MHz, 10MΩ, 600V CAT IIAt the same page, remove "Printer cable". I would specify it as a "USB2.0 compliant, length: 1m (or whatever length it is), USB Type A Male to USB Type B Male."

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 08:38:49 pm
content: Page 4 mentions a mythical DB15 connector but shows what appears to be a DE15 connector. If the connector is the same as for VGA then it's a DE15. A DB15 would be the same size as a DB25 but with only 15 pins. I've never seen one of those.Also, software is missing for Mac OS and iOS.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 08:55:12 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 31, 2019, 03:19:42 amI am puzzled about decision to make that supposedly low cost scope modular, with prehistoric & ugly DB- connector in a middle. Why? For what? IMHO cost of the split case, connector and assembly expenses do not offset USB socket and ez-usb IC (there's nothing much more on the interface board).

author: Gary.M
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 09:18:22 pm
content: Jiangtao,Do not be discouraged by many of the responses here. You have come to a forum full of engineers. Engineers do not know how to write politely and with consideration. They can be quite rude. However there is still good advice to be found in what they have written.Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 09:32:52 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 19, 2019, 08:38:49 pmYou are right; it is a DE15. I have seen DB15s in the wild and it seems theystill sell them.Quote from: glarsson on February 19, 2019, 08:38:49 pmI think he said before that Windows and Android are the only supported options.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2019, 09:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 19, 2019, 09:32:52 pmDo you mean the DA15?Quote from: rsjsouza on February 19, 2019, 09:32:52 pmExactly. That's why software for Mac OS and iOS are missing. The device is useless without software and the software is useless without anything to run it on.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 01:58:30 am
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 19, 2019, 09:52:42 pmUes, you are right. I never paid much attention to the exact nomenclature of the D series...Quote from: glarsson on February 19, 2019, 09:52:42 pmDo you have a physical unit?

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2019, 08:47:03 am
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 20, 2019, 01:58:30 amNo. Why should I buy something I can't use because of missing software?

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:09:54 pm
content: Sorry, my fault.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:12:52 pm
content: Thank you very much ,It's very usefull of your kind advice.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:26:21 pm
content: Quote from: ogden on February 19, 2019, 08:55:12 pmThe reason is hard to explain because of my English expression, I try to say some:1: If I make dozens of PCBs , sure I really don't need use ugly D-sub connectors. But If I need to produce thousands of PCBs, I will think differently.2:If I split it into two parts. one is the common part, I can change only the second one to promote a new model.The common part can work with several differentsecond part, vice versa.3: If I there is an order for 1000 osc482,300 osc802, 550 osc2002, 80 oscA02. what is the most effective method for production?I don't need prepare exactly by the order.4: with the common part ,I can opensource the second part for engineers some day.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:28:43 pm
content: thks,yes ,it is DE-15, my fault. I 'll change it.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:34:00 pm
content: jiangtao.lvif you want to make some usb oscilloscope bestseller, you can do it by implementing SDR DDC receiver mode inside your oscilloscope. It's not so hard, just needs some more FPGA programming. Because input amplifier, ADC and FPGA is already present in the oscilloscope hardware.If you can provide users with ExtIO DLL which will acts with your usb oscilloscope hardware to use it from HDSDR software as SDR DDC receiver, and you can keep the price low, your product will be bestseller, the same as RTLSDR dongle

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: Gary.M on February 19, 2019, 09:18:22 pmThank you very much for your kind comfort.It's very kind of you.I think I'm old enough to be stimulated by these sharp advice.I won't be in a mood swing because there is good advice as you said.This kind of environment makes me feel familiar,it is also true of the Chinese engineering community.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 02:37:43 pm
content: thank you , I will try to learn and think about it.

author: radiolistener
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 03:12:44 pm
content: jiangtao.lvin addition to SDR DDC mode, there are more similar features that you can implement in your USB oscilloscope to make it very popular.For example, you can add the following functions to your device:- arbitrary wave / multi-function generator (just by adding DAC)- frequency meter- spectrum analyzer- vector analyzer- antenna analyzer- frequency and phase response analyzer- LC-meter- reflectometer- SDR DDC receiver- QRP SDR transceiver (use ADC+FPGA as SDR DDC receiver and DAC+FPGA as SDR DUC transmitter)Also, you can implement stroboscopic oscilloscope mode in order to measure periodic signal with frequency which is much higher than ADC sampling rate.All these functions are very high demand for amateur and hobby electronics peoples. And your device with these functions will be very popular.All these functions can be done just in software, and you can make total unit cost smaller than $50.For example, you can see this one:http://www.osa103.ru/en/main-page/As you can see, this device is very cheap and simple, but provides a lot of professional-level functions.And with extension board it allows to measure frequencies up to 6 GHz.As you can see, this device uses just two expensive IC (FPGA and ADC), but it can replace a bunch of professional equipment.This is what users expecting from USB oscilloscope.Not just "yet another cheap usb oscilloscope", but a real useful and multifunction device.Here is PDF with schematic of OSA-103 device, as you can see it may be even less complicated than your USB oscilloscopes, but it can beat your oscilloscopes with a lot of very needed functions, implemented in software.And it can beat even professional equipment.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 03:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 21, 2019, 02:35:55 pmI am not sure if Gary.M's comment was directed at me, but re-reading my post I can see how it could come across as very harsh. Sorry about that.I do this for a living (or at least part of it) and treated this as one more document review that I usually do in my day-to-day life. Unfortunately I forgot this was not part of an over-arching discussion where the tone is set well before the actual comments for changes. I will be more subtle in the future.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 03:36:38 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on February 20, 2019, 08:47:03 amWell, I thought you had the physical unit to call it "useless" - no, it is not useless as it works in the OSes it supports.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2019, 07:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on February 21, 2019, 03:36:38 pmI thought it was obvious that I think it was useless to me. This is also something I can figure out without buying it.

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 01:33:19 am
content: I think most engineers dislike USB scopes. It's synonymous with cheap low end stuff and there's a lot to be said about physical knobs. Accessibility, speed, familiarity, etc. (except for Tektronix and Pico scope)Also, market is already saturated from low end to high end. No matter what entry point you choose, competitor is well ahead of you.I have an Owon VDS1022i. That's the quality and price point you'll be competing against. I think of these as student devices, or some special use cases. It really doesn't belong to an engineer's desktop.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 06:20:36 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on February 22, 2019, 01:33:19 amIs this true for engineers? It is a very important question.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 06:25:56 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 22, 2019, 06:20:36 amFor what it's worth, I would not consider USB-based scope unless there is a GOOD UI and support for Windows/Linux/ MAC OS. And also API for getting the data in Python or some other programming language. The value of having a USB scope is ability to process the data.And on this front, almost no known vendors deliver a good experience, so you have a chance to take that niche, provided your price is not outrageous. Here you will be competing against National Instruments, so you may want to look at their offering. And if you can deliver similar stuff at 1/10 of the price, you are golden.And by good UI, I don't mean simulation of a scope front panel with knobs that are a pain to turn with a mouse, but a UI that is actually designed for a PC use.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 06:33:22 am
content: roger that,I will take my best efforts to do it.Maybe I will try another one or two years.

author: DDunfield
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 12:58:27 pm
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 22, 2019, 06:20:36 amI believe it is quite true. The guys I work with scoff and snicker whenever the subject of USB scopes comes up. But they almost never say "those things are hard to use". The thing always stated is "those things don't work".I think we all agree that a benchtop scope is better to use. The display is always there and not covered up by the debugger you've got open, and you can adjust it by feel while looking at the display.With USB you have to grope around for a mouse and look at the control while adjusting it (I agree with the comment on "virtual knobs" - PLEASE use normal GUI elements). But we have lots of tools which are PC/USB based and we're used to it enough that were there some other compelling reason to use a USB scope, I think most engineers would consider it... except for ..USB scopes have a strong reputation for not working reliably (or at all in some case). At least the ones many people would consider have this reputation.And unreliability in test equipment is a "show stopper" to any professional.High-end USB scopes can work (some of them actually do), but don't cost significantly less than a better desktop scope (often more). For most, there just isn't a compelling reason to go that way.The benefits a USB scope offers are:- Lower cost.Often not true for the ones that actually work. And most companies or independent engineers would gladly pay a few $$$ more for something that is more usable and reliable.Cost is something more important to a hobbyist.- Small size (assuming you have a computer at the workstation anyway)Generally not a big deal in a commercial lab setting. You make room for is a decent scope. And modern bench scopes are much smaller than they used to be.May be more important in a portable setup, field work etc. but that is usually done with a "Scopemeter".Again, this is more appealing to a hobbyist, who may be relegated to the corner of an apartment or other small work area.- Ease of extracting waveform data.Since USB scopes already have the data "in the PC" it can be much easier/faster to access it than using a USB/LAB interface with a bench scope.But it can be done quite easily with modern bench scopes, and unless you do it a LOT (data logging etc.) generally not worth the downsides.- Can be combined into a multi-purpose portable lab tool."Analog Discovery" .. example of a successful device even though it costs as much as an entry bench scope. Lots of functionality in a very small package.Most engineers will want better versions of the functions it can perform on their bench, but still useful as a "portable lab".Cost is high for hobbiest but not out of reach of many.Most "Cost effective" USB scope just don't work reliably. Mainly because maker has cut corners to the bare bone, relying on unreliable streaming to a PC which "does everything". Software tends to be buggier than firmware in dedicated scopes. I've tried a number of the "streaming" USB scopes, and even with a belting fast PC they just couldn't hold a candle to my oldest/crappiest bench scope.Unreliable triggering, missed sections in captures, not usable at all for serious work.I do have a VDS1022I, but it's different from the others in that it does the capture/triggering inside the box. The PC is only a display. This is the only cheap (<$100) USB scope I've found which actually works. I don't use it on a daily basis, it lives in my laptop bag which I always have with me when off-site .. so now I always have a basic scope with me.If you want to make a successful USB scope:#1 - It HAS TO WORK! not just "mostly work" - it has to be as reliable as a bench scope.#2 - Decent software. No "virtual knobs". Design it to be used with a mouse by someone who would really rather not be using a PC at the moment (ie: minimize "mousing around").Support many host platforms: Win, Max, Linux, Android/IOS (tablet support) etc.As bug free as possible.#3 - Open interface. Document the control protocol. Not only will that get it supported by things like SIGROK, but it allows people to use it for other dedicated purposes.I think one area where a USB scope could appeal to a professional is in automated monitoring and logging systems.#4 - Open software. Since your hardware is a great security "dongal", why not open the software. This can go a long way as it lets people:See how to do programatically do various functions with the scope.Pull out code to use in dedicated (non UI) applications.Fix bugs and change other annoyances that you might not get around to.#5 - Offer something more - make it stand out, things like:Isolated USB interface.Higher then expected bandwidth, sample rate, sample size, sample depth precision etc. for the cost.Extra test and measurement functions.Logic analyzer.Signal/function generator etc.I'd love to see a low cost USB scope which ticks all the boxes. The VDS1022I comes close but you could do better: Higher bandwidth/sample rate. Deeper capture memory, Ability to trigger >=100ms, more advanced functions, open interface. Build that at the right price and "they will come" (at least I would).Dave

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2019, 11:27:12 pm
content: As others already mentioned, software makes or breaks such a product these days. At first sight, the screenshots look like a break to me:- At least one oversized "knob". Don't do that, just use a normal text widget with up/down/zero buttons- Screenshots showing windows XP with some weird font.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 12:36:51 am
content: Thank you, Lukas.On the following Tuesday, I will be at Nuremberg in Germany for an electronics exhibition.I will take several samples with me. If you are there, It's my honor to make a demonstration for you and show its features. It will be much better than I said and write in English. The web for application for tickets is :www.embedded-world.de/voucher, you can use this code to save 20 euros. I'm ROCKTECH in hall3,738.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 12:43:15 am
content: Dear Dave:I think,your description is very objective and convincing.Thank you very much for your valuable point of view. It would represent a certain level of hardware engineer's inner real idea. I will read it again and again the next time, and then adjust my strategy accordingly.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 12:45:18 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 23, 2019, 12:36:51 amsorry ,forgot the code:B408718

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 01:31:02 pm
content: @jiangtao.lvDo you have some association with Biray TMI? (www dot biraycn dot com)I got a spam email from them yesterday promoting the OSC802 USB Oscilloscope.The email had a link to a youtube video comparing the OSC802 vs a unknown Rigol and measuring 20mV ripple on a power supply.I recalled that particular model number being mention here, and it looked just like your photos.PS. Spam is bad!

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 02:38:02 am
content: Quote from: DDunfield on February 22, 2019, 12:58:27 pmI think it is already supported by Sigrok:https://sigrok.org/wiki/Loto_OSC802

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 12:34:57 am
content: Quote from: Kean on February 26, 2019, 01:31:02 pmSorry, dear Kean:Busy and tired last week, so didn't here.It's maybe my secondary distributor, I don't recognize it but it is indeed advertising my osc802, sorry about that. In the exhibition, I heard of that a new European regulations prohibits asking for bussiness card of vistors to protect privacy. I would to inform them to notice that and your suggestion.In exhibition, I met Mr smith,a gentle man here,thank you for your encourage and kindness concern, and your colleague Alen.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2019, 12:47:38 pm
content: while ebaying, this one looks familiar and i remember its been discussed... so its all over ebay now its very easy to enter the market over there... good luck..https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=OSC2002+Oscilloscope&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_odkw=ad9910one curiosity though... if that thing never sell, can it be returned to the manufacturer (the OP in this case) or they will be eternal in distributors (ebay sellers) storage?

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2020, 01:24:46 pm
content: I am back again. It has been about 15 months since the last time I asked questions here. I suddenly remembered that it was time to report to you the status of this USB oscilloscope project after more than a year.Thankfully I found the login account and password for this post I recorded.About 9 months ago, my team was separated from the company and became independent. We formed a very small and very new company. I didn't know how to do it, but now I understand it a little bit, and it is gratifying that I survived, and did not disband the team and did not continue to operate. However, it has not been very good and has developed greatly. The team is still maintained at 6 people, and each person is responsible for one direction.The team that I can only support 6 people now has a little surplus. I love such a small team. The efficiency of team assistance is very high. I hope we can continue to stick to it. After a year, I will come to report the situation of our team.Including me, half of the people in the team are doing full-time R & D, which is something I think is worth persevering and showing off. The product needs time to gradually polish and improve, and it will not be perfect from the beginning. I realized this very early, so I have seen many criticisms and suggestions here, and I am not very anxious or discouraged. I set my goal so that the team can survive and continue to develop. After every week or month, the product will be improved than before. It is difficult to grasp whether there is a big progress or a small one, but I will make sure that there is progress.Because we are out of the original company, we have no energy to make a big and gorgeous website, our software engineer made a very simple web page:www.lotoins.comIt ’s been a while since I could n’t remember the state of the product when I first came here to post, but it should be certain that we have newly developed the OSCH02 model with 1G equivalent sampling and a bandwidth of 100M, and added an isolated differential module. The module is used to measure hot ground and high voltage, adding three models of products that can be used on Android phones, newly developing 4-channel models, and newly developing special models for car maintenance.The functions of the software are increased more, and they are all upgraded for free, such as the decoding function of RS232, 422, 485, CAN bus, IIC bus, and the historical statistical curve of the measured quantity for Pass/Fail and fault linkage, etc. Of course, there are a lot of new features that are very detailed.I also spent a lot of energy to make some videos for explanation, there are twenty bars, but the reading is very small, probably because of language problems, I did not learn to make subtitles on youtube that can be translated online online a few days ago . Oh my god, I was stupid before, and I spent a lot of energy, and I dubbed myself in English, and then put English subtitles on the video.In addition, I went to an exhibition in Nuremberg, Germany last spring, and met the PICO team. My spoken English is a little ordinary, so I did not have very in-depth communication, but I am very grateful for my encouragement. Pico is the idol of our team. From there, I know that the boss of PICO will be here. If you see it, thank you for your attention ：）

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2020, 08:00:43 am
content: LOTO Practice Essence (||Fuse ExperimentThis video uses LOTO oscilloscope OSC482 and current probe C05A to perform overcurrent test on two different types of fuses. One is a 200MA fuse, and the other is a 300MA resettable fuse. From the measured result curve, the latter is superior to the former.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 04:49:30 am
content: Quote from: trobbins on January 30, 2019, 09:36:41 amThat actually points out a weakness in the product, power source! I might well prefer to use this with an Android tablet or a phone. The scope gets its power from the tablet or phone via the USB port. How does power get into the system? My cell runs for only a few hours when used continuously. The scope seems to draw a similar power level so would cut the battery life in half. So an external power source would be needed.The ideal solution would be to have a separate power jack on the scope and allow it to keep the phone charged through the USB jack. This would be similar to the Raspberry Pi which has a USB jack to receive power and a USB jack connect to devices and provide them with power. I can't see the Android approach being very useful otherwise.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 04:57:25 am
content: Quote from: Gary.M on February 19, 2019, 09:18:22 pm+1 !!!We don't mean to be rude, we're just drawn that way.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 05:06:21 am
content: Quote from: tkamiya on February 22, 2019, 01:33:19 amNot me. I don't need equipment to set on my bench. I need equipment I can tote with me, preferably in my computer bag to use where I go. I've wanted a new scope for a few years now and I keep holding off because the units I'd like are more money that I'd like to pay. Also, "want" and "need" are two different things.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 12:24:08 pm
content: I watched the first movie and I can tell I am impressed with the performance of the waveform updates while also changing parameters and controls. This indicates to me the interface seems robust. The core functionality shown is similar to a segmented memory and an advantage over my Owon VDS1022I.Regarding USB vs Bench scopes: working from home, the space in my home office desk is much more limited and I have been using the aforementioned VDS1022I to perform quick waveform captures - my only limitation is the oscilloscope's low bandwidth and lack of a deep memory, but its software is really robust and well made.

author: zachik
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 04:26:41 pm
content: Jiangtao,Is it possible to use your scope and logic analyzer with Pulse View open source software from Sigrok?Also, for logic analyzer functionality - I do have to buy scope as well. Right? (I am only interested in logic analyzer, since I already have a decent stand alone scope)Thanks.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:23:14 am
content: What you said is right. We have focused our work on the functions and details of the host computer software. In the past year, a new version of the software will be released for free every month, so the software interface and functions seem to be there every time different. Our philosophy is more inclined to make the software free and powerful, and is not inclined to pursue high hardware indicators. This is related to our value concept and application scenario positioning.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 02:27:49 am
content: Quote from: zachik on February 10, 2021, 04:26:41 pmWe actually open source the software interface of the oscilloscope, but we have not announced and supported it on the open source platform. We don't have enough energy to do this. However, I did see that the platform you mentioned has open source support for our equipment. Then no one contacted us to ask for open source materials, and I don't know how they support it. We did not refer to these open source rules when we developed it, so I guess the support is not good enough. It is true that our logic analyzer is only an accessory of the oscilloscope, the oscilloscope is the protagonist, and the logic analyzer cannot work independently. Frankly speaking, if we only use the logic analyzer, our product does not have any advantages. I think there are many in the market that are better than our logic analyzer, so we are not sure to separate it into a product.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 10:37:16 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on January 27, 2019, 03:09:49 amIt looks nice!But I only noticed the rising/falling edge trigger only. This is very poor, in digital measurements the trigger should be much more complicated.For serious analog measurements, we don't see enough measurement resolution: the beam is very thin and clean - I don't think you managed to make such a quiet input, this is an indicator of low resolution, most likely.As a result, you have some signal passing indicator. That's a lot on the market. What do you suggest is better?Forgive the harshness, but the market is even more brutal.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 03:18:12 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 15, 2021, 10:37:16 amSorry for my English too, you lost me .I don't get it.Do you mean the trigger needs more modes ?or do you suggest it need higher sampling rate when triggering?

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 06:18:49 am
content: Quote from: jiangtao.lv on February 16, 2021, 03:18:12 amAt a minimum, the trigger should be more complex than just a rising/falling edge. See the description of serious oscilloscopes.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2021, 02:23:44 pm
content: Hello jiangtao.lvToday is the first day I've heard of your products. I'm in fact looking into some of your documentation as I type this.Here are a some things that struck me right off the bat:You really need another place besides Facebook for USA support. Many in this country refuse to have anything to do with Facebook due to their practices. I'm not sure what would be the best avenue, but I will not be using Facebook.It would be nice to see Linux and MacOS support.I like that your home page {http://www.lotoins.com/} is light weight. Home pages should download and display fast no matter the connection. However it is pretty hard to find the technical details for your equipment. As such each instrument listed on the home page should link to a page that covers the technical aspects of the device in question. Right now I can't find enough detail to know how well any one instrument would work for me. I realize resources are limited in a startup but you need more info for each instrument version or I simply missed the page that has the information.Thanks for being open about this product and its development. Hopefully you can offer support to the open source communities and applications like Sigrok. If nothing else SigRok runs on a lot of different OS's.Just an suggestion but there is a niche to fill for a USB O'scope that is fully isolated. That means the USB connection and between inputs.I highly doubt I would use such hardware with a phone but with a table that would be a different story. The best tablets on the market right now are made by Apple so seeing support for them might be nice. On the other hand i'm not too happy with their Mifi program and policies so maybe not a good idea. In any event iPad, with the USB-C ports offer a great place for high performance software. Generally though I just carry around a laptop.In any event some ideas. I'm not in the market right at the moment I likely will not be a customer soon so I offer up the above ideas to help you get a perspective on what others think.From what I can see these are more likely to be seen as and used as data acquisition devices rather than replacing a traditional O'scope. That is OK as there is a huge market for such, however it would be nice to see a more complete scope offered up. Complete in this sense means a front end that can handle much wider voltage ranges.

author: jiangtao.lv
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2021, 04:13:17 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on February 17, 2021, 02:23:44 pmThese are very practical and useful suggestions. I will seriously understand and improve these aspects. thank you very much.

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2021, 12:40:11 pm
content: Wondering how OSCA02 and OSC2002 compare to Owon VDS1022I. Not by paper specs, but in real-world use, and when comparing only hardware properties and not the ones artificially boosted by a computer (having virtually unlimited memory).(Prices with VAT in Europe).Price-wise OSC2002 is about 125 EUROSCA02 and VDS1022I are both at about 100 EUR.VDS1022 (non-I) is ~70 EUR.Important: VDS1022I has USB isolation, which makes it more "fool-proof". OSCA02 / OSC2002 need a separate module for it, and it costs 40 EUR.I see the old lotoins.com website is gone, the new address seems to be loto-ins.com. Not sure, why the branding was changed with that "-". The device images on AliExpress still show the old lotoins.com on them. And AliExpress Loto Instruments Store has more up-to-date product lists and images. loto-ins.com seems to be a bit abandoned in comparison.I'm a hobbyist, working on occasional projects and repairs, and have no space to keep a proper bench scope on my table. Also, I have impaired vision, so an USB scope is a better choice for me because then I can zoom the image on the computer screen to make it easier for me to see.A funny coincidence - jiangtao.lv ends with lv, which is a code for my country, Latvia

author: yoga
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 01:40:13 am
content: not sure, but over one year without an update is not what I was expecting after starting to read the whole topic cause I was on the edge of buying an Owon vds1022i and had hopped to get more information from your brand and products.The only further thing I found out is the support by hscope on the android app side which is important for me.It was a coincidence that I looked at the date of your last post here on february 19th of 2021 while we had 22nd when I read the whole discussion.

author: Andrew_Debbie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 09:51:48 am
content: never mind.

author: Andrew_Debbie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 09:57:20 am
content: Ahh - new website -->http://www.loto-ins.com/en/Very much still around. Hmm.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2022, 03:22:17 pm
content: What a horrible web site. It is so hard to find anything useful.

author: yoga
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 24, 2022, 01:59:16 pm
content: Now I went through the whole OSCA02 story and reviews. Some are good or even great regarding the modularity and the logic analyzer, but here in the forum the owon 1022i is still ahead and OSCA02 had not even made it in a tear down or deeper investigation.Considering the time I had to spend to simply get into the whole idea of modularity it was painful. The webpage is outdated or feels so.The first real usefull source was the ali express shop site and of cause after digging into it the link to the google drive were you had to get the specification pdf with 21 pages of usefull content.What a huge amount of confusion and model variants - an overkill for a newbie I guess.1 year later and the whole mess of complexity has not been solved.The idea to sell a product in a windows version and for additional 30€ an android edition is also a big deal breaker not telling the people what the really will get: the free hscope version or a licence one with all its glory ?Not a single line and it adds more complication than value instead of simply doing what other have done before successfully: supporting hscopeI first got the hantek 6022BL and I plugged into the USB a 20 cent otg adapter (I always have in my wallet to use any USB device on my phone) and installed hscope: worked instantly and great , also got the first success with the calibration portsBut I had to sell it cause what I had not known was that the Hantek is fully missing the AC couplingI would have gone for an osca L having the additional benefits like* USB 2.0* 72h data logger recording* decoding UART/RS-232/485/422, I²C, CAN, SPI, LIN* broader bandwithbut those come at the price of other limitations escpecially when compared with the Owon as mentioned by gyro and others like- basic edge triggering only- no galvanic isolation - if you purchase the add-on adapter, price? about 40€ I guess- The LA capability could probably be bettered by a low cost ebay LA and Sigrok.- more expensive in case galvanic isolation is needed- nobody's done a teardown yet!– Time range: 50 ns/div ~ 2 s/div (5 ns/div - 100 s/div VDS 1022)– Input sensitivity 50 mV/div to 2 V/div (5 mV/div - 5V/div VDS1022)I guees it needs more than just a nice and big hello to bring devices into the market.Sad to see that the last year seems like a lost year cause hard to find any reviews and further details where the OSCA02 was outperforming others like the Owon. Hope you will get back some time with a slimmer approach than with an entry model where you need to become a doctor to figure out what you need and at which price point like the ali express site and your data sheets which also still have bugs visible for an amateur like me.

author: vc12345679
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 08:18:05 am
content: Quote from: Andrew_Debbie on February 23, 2022, 09:57:20 amIt seems the team is actively updating the demo videos, on both BiliBili (42 videos this year so far) and YouTube (12 videos this year).https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr9ygLrA_3QIpBi6BMbGzqA/videoshttps://space.bilibili.com/473937206/video

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2022, 03:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: vc12345679 on July 26, 2022, 08:18:05 amThey need to update their web site so you can figure out what they sell without visiting a dozen, seriously slow web pages. They have a sort of selection guide, but it doesn't include many of their models.This is what happens when engineers try to run a company. No, if the engineers were running the company, the web site would be blindingly fast.This is what happens whenFerengistry to run a company.

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 08:01:19 pm
content: I risked and got one. Now I regret it a bit because the software can be confusing and sometimes counterintuitive:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/pausing-and-inspecting-signals-on-usb-oscilloscopes/Essentially, after you have captured a signal using a trigger, it feels like a teaser - the program clearly shows small thumbnails of something they have named PC cache with your signal barely recognizable there. Still, you just cannot click/zoom/navigate/whatever to access any of those captured frames in their full glory. There seems to be something tricky to access them, I'll ask their support about it.I'm glad I didn't buy a more expensive model because that also would have the same software issues. I also experienced a few plot crashes - got a big red cross in the plot while everything else worked, and sometimes it gets stuck in the wrong voltage range showing 20V instead of 5V (switching divisions back & forth fixes the problem); and sometimes it shows I'm in preview mode while I'm actually in live mode. And also recording navigation is inconvenient, no way to pause or scrub the timeline forward/back to find the signal (but not sure if other scope software has this feature?).

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 08:22:44 pm
content: Wow! That sucks...I bought a Hantek scope once, for ~$80 I think. I never got the software to even run! I contacted the seller after finding no way to contact Hantek with a useful response. They wrote back that they could not find where it had been delivered, seems the UPS ticket was corrupted or something. So I got a full refund and the box went in the back of some drawer.I had a chance to dig into the design later on after others did a tear down and it pretty much was a piece of junk. It had a logic analyzer and scope combo, but they weren't in any way a "combo" other than being in the same box. They had entirely separate interfaces and no cross correlation.I'm glad I got my money back without a hassle and even saving me the frustration of finding out how unuseful it was.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 09:16:52 pm
content: I would not say that this is unexpected. I have never seen a PC scope UI that did not suck. They are clearly implemented by programmers that don't actually use those tools. And apparently they are not acting on the user feedback.The UI in the linked topic is a perfect example. Rotating knobs like this are a perfect example. If you see a PC scope UI with rotating knobs, you can rest assured it will suck.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 09:38:17 pm
content: I actually quite like the software that comes with the Digilent Analog Discovery (Waveforms). And the PicoScope 7 preview I think has potential but still needs a lot of work.But unfortunately that is the exception and not the rule. If you are going to buy a PC based instrument, it is always a good idea to try the software first, there is often a demo mode. If that is not possible, maybe look elsewhere.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 09:48:30 pm
content: I have analog discovery, and I find the software passable at best. There are a ton of usability issues. It is functional and does not crash, so that's something in this world, but very annoying at times.

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 09:52:48 pm
content: I got motivated by a few Youtubers who demonstrated the Loto software and compared it to some even worse examples. Loto looked pretty good in comparison, at least for a 50$ scope.I guess I'll have to save some money for Analog Discovery 2 after I try their software in demo mode, or a Picoscope (2204A or 2205A). That will be my Christmas gift to myself

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2022, 11:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: ataradov on September 26, 2022, 09:16:52 pmYes, I agree 100%. Someone has the idea that it needs to have the same "look and feel" except "knobs" on a computer screen are a far cry from knobs in the real world. The grouping of the knobs is almost as important as the "feel" of the knobs.I'm going to need to buy a scope in the near future and the Pico scope is the only one that is even close to acceptable so far.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 01:53:17 am
content: The Owon VDS1022I USB oscilloscope has a very useable interface with lots of shortcut keys.

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2022, 07:10:37 am
content: Loto replied on Youtube. It turns out, you have to hit Stop device button and then, finally, those PC cache thumbnails become available and you can scroll the signal into view. A bit convoluted, but it works. As I understand, that's mostly necessary only for their lower-end models with software triggers because those fail to "focus" the signal into the main view.Loto also suggested buying one of their models with hardware triggers, but even with a properly focusing trigger you might want to be able to scroll a long signal, and then also you would have to stop the device. I'm not sure why this limitation - why users should be blocked from viewing a cached signal immediately while you are already paused on the trigger anyway.Well, for now, I can live with that. I wish there was a seamless zooming / panning of the main view instead of the awkward routine "Stop device, click on a thumbnail, and use a scrollbar until the signal is in focus".Picoscope 7 demo mode feels nice indeed, everything seems intuitive and convenient enough even for a newbie.