How does one "learn electronics"? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: zednam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 02:46:42 am
content: Sorry in advance if anything is wrong about this post, i'm not an avid forum user.So, to keep things short and sweet, i like electronics, it's what im planning on studying after school, but i want to start learning myself.I understand the very basics, not much past ohms law. I can solder at a very amateur level with a cheapo hot stick. I have a decent understanding of mathematics and phisics,dont know calculus but im willing to learn.To make things a bit less all-encompassing, i recently had an idea for an all pcb variable sided electronic dice. of course, with my limited knowledge i have no idea how id go past the idea phase into prototyping or designing the circuit/pcb.So basically, i want to learn enough to design and make my own circuits (things like the project i described above, other "mitxela" type projects, cc led drivers, etc.), understand how the things im using work, and to lay a solid framework before i study at uni.I don't know what to even start with, are there any resources you guys could suggest? All i want is a general guideline on what to learn in what order and i can likely find the rest myself. I'm not expecting to know all of electronics by next week but it'd be ideal if i could (if possible) know enough to prototype the project described in a few months / by the end of the year.Also i'd love a good resource for learning soldering, i can blame it on cheap hardware all i want but nothings going to improve if i don't improve myself.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 03:57:40 am
content: I started with building kits from electronics magazines. Magazines are good because they (usually) have a detailed description of how the design works.

author: zilp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 06:49:21 am
content: The question is: Do you want to learn more on the electronics/electrical engineering side or more on the software side?I guess most people would implement your project idea of a variable-sided "die" with software nowadays, be it just on a PC or smartphone, or using a microcontroller. But there isn't much electronics in there, other than hooking up some LEDs and buttons to the microcontroller.It's a problem that can reasonably be solved with discrete electronics, too, though. I guess the traditional approach would be a VCO (something like CD4046) controlled by an RC circuit driving a counter (like CD4017, or possibly some binary/BCD counter plus BCD-to-7 segment converter, depending on the output format you want). You probably can find schematics for that on the web, or you could try figuring it out yourself.There is a lot you can learn in either direction, but the approaches are very different.Of course, you can also buy textbooks and stuff (or read online introductory texts), but learning by just building projects and figuring stuff out along the way certainly is a fine way to learn things, too. You just have to be careful to not fall into the trap of using ready-made modules for everything if you want to learn how stuff works. Buying a bunch of modules and writing some arduino project from github into an MCU generally won't teach you much.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 09:04:23 am
content: You can also try to simulate the circuits you are interested in. If any have been simulated and work correctly, you can then try to assemble them on a breadboard or on a PCB.https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.htmlhttps://wokwi.com/arduino

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:05:56 am
content: @zednam: I subscribe to two electronics magazines - Elektor (Dutch, the English language edition) and Practical Electronics (British). I've learned a tremendous amount from those two - especially Practical Electronics. It has always had excellent articles explaining electronics theory in a very accessible way, as well as loads of projects for you to get into. The projects always explain in detail how the design works, plus you'll get plenty of practice building things if you have a go at some of them.Regarding designing and building your own circuits, don't underestimate the enormous amount there is to learn. Electronics is a big and complex subject, especially if you want to get into analogue electronics in a big way as well as digital. You said that your main aim just now is to build a solid foundation before going to college, which is an admirable approach. One way, which I cannot recommend highly enough, is to start with a magazine project but modify it in some way. Modifying an existing design is a good way of taking your first few steps on the learning curve. It requires you to understand the circuit somewhat, without necessarily being able to design it from scratch.About circuit boards... your early projects should probably be on stripboard (prototyped on "breadboard", perhaps) because there is a cost involved in PCB manufacture. You could mess about etching your own boards, but it's a bit of a faff to be honest and they'll be nothing like professionally made boards. The obvious product to use would be KiCAD, it being the best of the free PCB design programs.Realistically you'll probably want to learn to program microcontrollers. An excellent jumping off point is Arduino, which is a great ecosystem which makes things very easy for beginners. Eventually you will probably want to get closer "to the metal", and that might well take you towards the Microchip devices and development tools.Another big area is digital signal processing (DSP). The concepts and mathematics are not easy, so you might want to leave this until college. It is possible, but difficult, to teach yourself DSP.About the mathematics... get yourself up to speed on complex number theory if you can. It is very relevant to analogue filter design. Also, practice your algebra, which is important in general electronics design.In terms of hardware, you'll need a soldering iron, a multimeter and a bench PSU. None of these need to be expensive. In my opinion the next tool to buy would be an oscilloscope. There is nothing like an oscilloscope for revealing what is going on in a circuit - it is unparalleled.I could go on for ages, but that is probably enough for now. This will be an interesting thread as people proffer their own advice. As for now, get yourself a subscription to Practical Electronics plus a handful of back issues.

author: NE666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:32:13 am
content: To add to, rather than contradict, the good suggestions already made;Get yourself a copy of Horowitz and Hill "The Art of Electronics" and find at least a couple of hours each week to work through it. It becomes quite mathematically involved quickly in places but feel free to skip ahead and skim through the more practical/applied aspects on a first pass through the book, and come back for the fine detail on subsequent readings.If you're serious about developing the level of theoretical understanding that will be necessary to support a solid practical ability to design, build, test and troubleshoot even simple systems, you won't ever be wasting your time or money by doing so.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:40:13 am
content: You have made a good first step asking on this forum. Lots to be learnt from the people on here.

author: BarrowBoy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 11:45:57 am
content: Hey Newbie,Well done in finding this forum. If Electronics is a passion, and you have already worked that out, many options lay before you. You will learn more once you leave school, and personally, I'd try and jump straight into the industry. If you know Ohms law, and resistor colours now...you will be good to go. Welcome, hopefully, your post count will increase as will your knowledge

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 01:56:32 pm
content: I continue to recommend 'starter kits' like this one for the Arduinohttps://www.amazon.com/ELEGOO-Project-Tutorial-Controller-Projects/dp/B01D8KOZF4Do ALL of the experiments and understand what parts (component values) are being used and why.You will learn a blend of software and hardware. Code is provided for the experiments. You will wind up with a set of modules you can use later on.Study math in school, you will need a ton of it if you decide to pursue electronics in college.There are similar starter kits for the Raspberry Pi and they are well worth the price, time and effort.

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 02:28:34 pm
content: Building kits is an excellent learning method.Both for polishing your soldering skills and learning a little electronics theory.

author: zednam
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 05:55:30 pm
content: First of all, thank you all so, so much, I couldn't have expected a warmer welcome.I'll 100% be looking into magazines/textbooks. Thanks for the specific recomendations.I've been studying math at above my gradelevel already and ill keep at it.I already have an iron, multimeter and a buck boost on the way to add onto my repurpoised atx, i've looked at oscilloscopes a tad bit, I don't need one atm but it looks extremely usefull for troubleshooting and understanding circuits. In the long run, what would be the first piece(s) to upgrade/add?Also, not to be a broken record but, any textbook / resource for soldering? I know the best best way to get better is practice, but i still cant figure out if im doing things wrong or its just due to crappy cables/tools, i often struggle with getting solder to stick or tin cables even after using lots of flux.Thanks again for all the advice. I tried to keep the reply short but i've read and considered every reply.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 06:03:25 pm
content: Good flux and the biggest bluntest tip you can get away with is the secret to easy soldering. Should be a fast thing taking a few seconds at most. The basic 30w stick with a thin conical tip is only so good, most temp controlled soldering stations will be better.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 07:45:31 pm
content: I agree that an oscilloscope is a valuable "next tool" to have. You might consider the inexpensive "FNIRSI 1013D" as a starter-scope (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BHHYMVKV). There has been a lot of discussion about this scope here on eevblog forum. In short, it isn't great, it doesn't really meet specs, but it is very useful, and it's relatively inexpensive. I have other expensive high-quality scopes, but my little 1013D scope has a place on my desk and I use it often.There may be newer / better / cheaper scopes, so some searching here on the forum would be a good idea.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 09:43:26 pm
content: Quote from: zednam on July 14, 2024, 05:55:30 pmStart withhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837the PACE soldering tutorial. They show you want to do, what is looks like when you are doing it correctly, and what is looks when you are doing something wrong.They are old, but that is a virtue... They were made when it was difficult and expensive to make videos, so they planned everything before starting. That makes them terse and valuable in the way almost all recent yoootoob videos aren't.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: zednam on July 14, 2024, 02:46:42 amHello there,For that project most people would start with a microcontroller. The Arduino is the fastest way to get there. The Uno or Nano to start with.As for math, Algebra will get you pretty far. In particular, simultaneous equations.To go much farther you'll have to learn Calculus, but as I said, you can get pretty far with just Algebra.If you intend to analyze AC circuits, you'll want to understand complex numbers.Analyze as many circuits as you can to get good at circuit analysis.If you really want to get good at this, look for books like "Engineering Circuit Analysis".Download a simulator like the LT Spice simulator. It's free and you can share files on the web in forums like this one. Do not let the simulator take over your entire circuit analysis technique however, circuit simulators cannot tell you everything and math leads you to better theory. There are some things you can never determine with a simulator or would be very hard to do with one. You can however check your math results using a simulator.For soldering, probably the best way these days is to look for videos that show details.The solder itself is also important. Probably start with leaded solder not unleaded solder, 63/37 with center rosin core lux. Unleaded solder is usually harder to work with. Make sure all the metal to be soldered is clean and shiny. First tin the tip of the iron, then apply heat to the thing to be soldered, then apply the solder. The temperature cannot be too high but also not too low.

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:23:31 pm
content: Talking of soldering, I don't know if this is controversial, but I strongly recommend using leaded solder (if you can still buy it - here in Europe several suppliers won't supply it unless you have a trade account). Ebay sellers still sell it, but you want good quality, branded solder. Some unbranded solder has a rubbish flux load - not enough, and inconsistent in its distribution through the length of the solder wire.You can solder with lead-free solder, but it's much more difficult, requiring higher temperatures, and it generally just doesn't seem to work that well when using a soldering iron. Solder paste and wave soldering - as used in manufacturing - seem fine with lead-free. With a soldering iron it's more difficult.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2024, 10:54:03 pm
content: Soldering tutorials are all over the Internet, Google for them.Pay attention to drag soldering tutorials like:

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 12:10:10 pm
content: ...googling kits lead to:https://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/outreach/kits/physics-music-mixer-kitamongst other things - worth exploring, perhaps

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 12:45:12 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 14, 2024, 09:43:26 pmI was going to recommend the same video, but you beat me to itAnd there are also many other good videos out there on soldering.The last time I taught someone how to solder, this is the kit they started with:https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-SP3B-Practical-Soldering-Project/dp/B0002LUALGA lot of practice at varying levels of difficulty, and you make something that actually does something

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 01:01:52 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 15, 2024, 12:45:12 pmAnd, as with all subjects on yoootoob, too many that are wastes of timeToo many talking heads, ums and ahs, and material that doesn't need moving pictures. What is worse is that you often can't determine that until after spending some of your remaining life watching such drivel.I've come to deeply resentmereegoboos.QuoteIt is easy to teach a complete beginner sufficient how to solder sufficiently well for prototypes with through-hole components, either on a PCB or another prototype. Beginners get a lot of satisfaction, a sense of achievement, and the beginnings of a skill that will last a lifetime.It always amazes and dismays me that when people claim that soldering is "so difficult" that it is better for a beginner to use solderless breadboards.

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 01:03:35 pm
content: "But there isn't much electronics in there, other than hooking up some LEDs and buttons to the microcontroller."While that might be true of a typical "arduino electronic dice" project, I would still say an arduino is well worth getting. Having a microcontroller you can program, which you can then interface to other digital and analogue components and have it respond in realtime to signals is very useful. I'd very strongly say though, you want an Arduino (the Uno R3 or another atmega328p based one is a good choice) NOT a Raspberry Pi. A Pi is a full on computer, it runs an operating system, t has folder structures, can run a GUI... Its a good tool for high level control of a robot or something, but it can't do really fast realtime interactions with circuits and doesn't have any built-in way to read analogue levels (digital inputs only).Using an arduino compatible microcontroller, you might look at building some sensor circuits from scratch, using basic components. Like an IR reflection proximity sensor, this would give you a chance to learn about op-amps, very useful in analogue projects, or build one of the simpler types of inductance measuring meter (gets you thinking about signal processing and timing).

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 01:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: Infraviolet on July 15, 2024, 01:03:35 pmAnd the Pi has a full blown network stack with a Berkeley Sockets interface which is easy to use to create either servers or clients. It can handle multiple sockets as you would expect from a server. Many lesser uCs also support networking and there are also external chipsets that work with the Arduino but they may not be as robust as a Pi implementation.There's a Python library that makes GPIO programming on the Pi quite simple. Again, one of the starter kits helps climb the learning curve.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 03:02:43 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on July 15, 2024, 12:45:12 pmThat looks like a very nice kit. And great to see how the parts are well organized on the cardboard.I tried an AliExpress radio project with a couple of young kids. It worked well, but needs to be supervised more of course. It was quite rewarding for all, seeing how surprised they were when it functioned and they heard voices : )

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 05:42:40 pm
content: You can do a lot with Arduino-type controllers and pre-built modules, but that's not exactly "learning electronics". If you want to learn programming, networking, and interfacing then these are a great way to start, but I would suggest starting with simple analog circuits: resistors, capacitors, transistors, op-amps, etc. The Arduinos and Pi's come later.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 06:05:00 pm
content: Quotei wouldn't, i'd start by looking for circuit diagrams of any existing solutions that i canstealborrow ideas from,magazines are a good source as they often describe how the circuit works. One example of a dice circuithttps://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hobby-Electronics/Hobby-Electronics-1982-03-S-OCR.pdf

author: slavoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 06:06:18 pm
content: “Tell me and I will forget, show me and I may remember; involve me and I will understand.”Read a good textbook on the basics of electronics, grab a breadboard, a handful of components, a multimeter an oscilloscope and just start making anything you desire. There's no better way to understand electronics than working with a physical circuit. Just learn to work on your own first. Simulations, YouTube videos, magazines and kits are good as supplements.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 07:18:27 pm
content: There are so many fields in electronics to learn and in a university degree they are going to feed you with them as if you were a goose they want to fatten. It's like doing a marathon, not like doing a walk for fun.Anyway, you can go forward and everything you learn will be good for you to be more motivated and to know some topics in more depth.These are some of the topics that you will find studying electronics:1. Electrical circuits.From direct current to alternating current. From Thevenin's theorem to quadrupole theory. From resistors to transformers.2. Electronic components.How each one works, from a simple capacitor to a thyristor. How to connect them in parallel or in series and their modes of operation.3. Analog electronics.From transistor stages (bjt or field effect) to operational amplifiers.4. Digital electronics.From basic logic gates, through combinational circuits (multiplexer, adder, decoder, etc.) to sequential systems (flip-flops, memories, etc.)5. Automatic regulation.Systems and feedback theory. Analysis of the stability of feedback systems. Bode plot, Roots placement, Nyquist, PID regulators.6. Digital systems.Internal study and programming of microprocessors and microcontrollers.7. Instrumentation.Measurement bridges, voltage and current references, instrumentation and isolation amplifiers, ADC and DAC converters, transducers and physical magnitude sensors (NTC, RTD, thermocouples, strain gauges, etc.).8. Manufacturing technologies.PCB manufacturing. PCB. THT and SMD Components, welding techniques, Trace techniques, Hybrid circuits. Silkscreen printing. Etc.9. Industrial computing.Structured programming in high-level languages. Modeling of graphs and Petri nets. Semaphores, messages, synchronization of concurrent tasks. Producer-consumer problem. Real-time operating systems. Etc.10. Power electronics.Both with linear and switched power circuits.11. Industrial PLC. Robotics.12. Communication and data transmission networks.You can choose one of your liking and start experimenting with it.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 07:19:27 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on July 15, 2024, 05:42:40 pmIf the OP wants to study capacitors, a signal source is required. The Arduino can supply a square wave and this may be adequate for studying the forced response (RC time constant). It would still require a scope unless the constant is very long where a decent DMM may be adequate. How about an Arduino Oscilloscope project - check Google... There are also some Arduino Signal Generator projects - check Google... There are at least 2 themes here.I should put in a plug for Digilent's Analog Discovery 3 - a decent lab in a small box. This is a very powerful tool for learning (and beyond)https://digilent.com/shop/test-and-measurement-devices/essential-instruments/analog-discovery-3/Don't make the mistake of assuming this is a toy. It's quite capable!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 07:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: slavoy on July 15, 2024, 06:06:18 pmThat's half of it. You also need the fundamental theory.One simple example: just playing around with an IQ signal generator won't lead you to understand where and why they are useful. For that you need to understand the maths."Theory without practice is mental masturbation. Practice without theory is blind fumbling" - me

author: SteveThackery
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 08:28:28 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2024, 07:23:48 pmYes, but the OP is doing pre-university prep work. Electronics theory fundamentals is pretty tough to self-teach, especially from a cold start. As such I think he'd be better leaving most of that to the university course. The suggestions discussed above are excellent, in my view, and ideal for the pre-university stage.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 08:52:29 pm
content: Quote from: SteveThackery on July 15, 2024, 08:28:28 pmFair comment, but it doesn't change the point. If nothing else the practical experience should encourage the OP to realise why theory is important, and to understand "in theory the practice is the same as the theory, but in practice it isn't".It should also inoculate him against the too frequent statements that practice is more important than theory.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 08:59:58 pm
content: I was "learning electronics" in elementary and jr. high school, and I guarantee that I learned a lot without knowing advanced math and physics. OK, I suppose it was more "learning electricity", but I did gain a very basic knowledge of vacuum tube operation, Ohm's Law, etc. It was many years later that I would consider myself an engineer, but there is no reason not to start out along the hobbyist / technician path. So don't assume that you need a rigorous theoretical understanding before you can begin doing practical electronics projects. The rigor can come later. We all learn differently.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 09:59:10 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on July 15, 2024, 08:59:58 pmI presume the OP is interested in "understanding electronics" at least as much as they are interested in "learning electronics". Understanding requires the theory. If you don't understand the theory then you are left with "cargo-cult engineering".I started with the Philips EE20 kits. The instruction manuals were divided horizontally, the top half was the theory of operation, the bottom half the practical circuit and components. Now at maybe 10yo I realised I didn't understand all the theory, but it made me understand what I wanted and needed to know.Realising I couldn't create novel circuits or reliably modify existing circuits without theory was a critical revelation.

author: shabaz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2024, 10:58:41 pm
content: By chance, I still have one of my first-year lab write-ups. It might look boring to someone who has yet to start their course and perhaps expects immediate exposure to a variety of microchips and so on, but there are reasons behind it all. Probably the first year of college/university might only involve a few construction projects, and a lot of the practical lab work may well just be experiments to support the theory learning.Some of the first-year practical element may seem trivial, but there's a method to it; for instance, in another practical lab, we had to assemble a simple mains transformer power supply (to teach us a tiny bit of construction techniques, how to use a simple voltage regulator, and how not to electrocute each other for a better future). Not every person had encountered tools, safe ways of working, and so on, so it was important.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 01:02:18 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2024, 09:59:10 pmThere are different levels of "theory", and there is plenty of respectable, reliable, and novel design you can do without a deep understanding of solid state physics, linear network analysis, etc. I hope you don't apply the "cargo cult" pejorative too broadly, because then I would be compelled to strongly disagree with you.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 08:44:06 am
content: Quote from: fourfathom on July 16, 2024, 01:02:18 amTo be provocative, when it comes to software Ipartiallyagree with your first sentence - but your last sentence is too optimistic. All you have to do is look at the many gross software failures at all levels, from language designs to final systemsSimple example about network analysis. A vital key is the concept of superposition, and that requires understanding the components' equations must be of the form y=mx+0. After you understand that you realise why so much component characterisation and analysis is based on finding linear approximations, and hence large-signal vs small-signal analysis and operation. Without the theory, large-vs-small is a hidden mysterious topic.Without that you end up with people that think that the resistance of a component is defined to be V==IR. Such people cannot comprehend that negative resistance exists and is useful - both conceptually and for basic circuit operation. I've been inlongdiscussions with people on this forum about that; they can just begin to see the glimmer of a cell's V-I characteristics, but a diode's resistance is "dynamic small signal" resistance is too much for them, and they cannot even begin to do anything with the V-I characteristic of a tunnel diode (e.g. looking at the V-I graph, for V=V1, what is the current and resisitance)..

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 08:48:57 am
content: Quote from: shabaz on July 15, 2024, 10:58:41 pmAgreed.In my first two weeks we were taught Thevenin, Norton, and resistor networks. I confidently skimmed the material, having done many things like that before. I then fell flat on my face during a self-assessment test, because I hadn't appreciated the subtleties of what a "linear system" means in this context. Yes y=mx+c is a linear equation, but for the vitally important concept of superposition to apply, c==0.That quick lesson was invaluable: I realised I couldn't just drift and had to apply myself to detailed understanding. The alternative was that I would have learned that lesson far too late for me to be able to recover.

author: fourfathom
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 03:55:08 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on July 16, 2024, 08:44:06 amI'm going to let this drop now, because we agree much more than we disagree. But looking at gross failures in any field can reveal that theoretical knowledge is insufficient and sometimes secondary to other factors. I've known highly-educated engineers who were hopelessly inept when it came to actual original design work. I think the creativity / skill / knowledge spectrum is fascinating, but this probably isn't the place for that discussion.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 04:06:20 pm
content: The Art of Electronics and it's accompanying lab book are a great resource, and well organized to keep you from wandering off in a bunch of different directions. That was my problem with the self-taught approach, I am easily distracted when I see another interesting topic. Lots of wasted time back and forth. Buying those books new is very expensive, but if you look at used book sources they can be had cheaply if you look for older editions, and the basics haven't changed much. I bought a set of the 2nd edition (silver cover) in pristine condition for about $40 US shipped from a used online book seller. If you can find an old Analog Discovery (black case) they are very close to the current offering and a very useful learning tool. I picked up one on ebay a few years ago for $50.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 06:13:00 pm
content: Quote from: fourfathom on July 16, 2024, 03:55:08 pmThanks for recapitulating and for emphasising the point I made earlier in this thread...Quote from: tggzzz on July 15, 2024, 07:23:48 pm

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2024, 08:55:37 pm
content: You can approach electronics as putting things together with a minimum of maths, (Ohm's Law is useful), or as a branch of Applied Mathematics, with no need to dirty your hands with so crude a thing as a soldering iron.The best way has to be somewhere in the very wide space in between.I can't add much to the excellent advice you've been given so far, apart that side cutters, snipe nosed pliers and a wire stripper make life easier. The wire strippers save your front teeth. Cheap side cutters will do, the expensive ones are expensive for good reason. An oscilloscope is a very nice thing to have.A solderless bread board is handy within limits. I'm waiting for the hate to flow here. They do let you assemble simple circuits, change them, rip them down and reuse it all. Use them for anything complicated (more than ten components), especially when they've had a lot of use, and they throw up problems.Soldering: easy if you are using new parts, a new PCB and new solder (60/40 tin/lead) and have one of those little copper turning things to clean the bit. You tin the iron with solder, dip the tip in the cleaner, apply the tip to the two parts to be joined, then feed the solder to the intersection between the bit and the work. It works like magic - with practice.Old parts with tarnished leads need cleaning up - I use 1000 grade wet and dry paper. Old prototype board needs cleaning - I use an abrasive block for cleaning home made PCBs. Old solder may need cleaning to remove the surface oxide - I pull it through a handful of toilet roll a few times.Good luck on your voyage of discovery!

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 12:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: Zenith on July 16, 2024, 08:55:37 pmI use side cutters to strip wire. Wire strippers will make your life faster/easier if you have many identical wires to strip. Fortunately I've never used my teeth!Anyworkingscope is better than none.QuoteHere's a current thread about problems with a DC circuithttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/diode-connected-transistor-has-negative-resistance/msg5574719/#msg5574719Now that's rats nest construction, but solderless breadboard would have made things worse.Why? Similar circuit athttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2024/03/16/practical-traps-with-a-one-transistor-audio-amplifier-solderless-breadboards-and-oscilloscopes/QuoteGood tips.I use brass turnings, but certainly wouldn't use steel turnings. (Brass and copper are softer than steel).And have fun, safely.

author: rich t
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 12:38:05 pm
content: I have a bunch of these hackerboxes available:https://hackerboxes.com/products/hackerbox-0102-flea-scopePM me a mailing address and I'm happy to mail you one free of charge.The online guide is here:https://www.instructables.com/HackerBox-0102-Flea-Scope/It takes you thru some basic electronics skills, and then you can build a "simon" game or "morse code trainer" or almost anything else microcontroller'ish that you want -- there are videos and everything.In addition, you end up with an oscilloscope and logic analyzer (and function generator) which can help you with all other circuits you might build.-- RichPS and if you want to learn about building this kind of stuff for yourself, I have build instructions here:https://hackaday.io/project/192598-flea-scope-usb-oscilloscope-18-18-msps-webusb

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 04:25:29 pm
content: One problem with this thread and all similar queries is not having a concise definition for 'learn' from the OP's point of view. Learn enough for copy-and-paste projects? Learn enough to design simple circuits by combining information from datasheets or learn enough to design the circuits described by datasheets (real engineering)? Maybe learn enough to teach the subject at a post grad level? Perhaps 'learn' implies that Maxwell's Equations flow from your fingertips.When I think about 'learn', I usually consider 5 years of undergrad as learning. Clearly, that isn't necessary for hobby level electronics which tends toward copy-and-paste.The definition to use in these threads should certainly come from the OP and perhaps the first reply should ask the question:"What do you mean by 'learn'?" Perhaps the OP is thinking Ohm's Law and we're thinking about Laplace Transforms and Control Systems.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 04:34:05 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 17, 2024, 04:25:29 pmThere's validity in those points.It is, of course, difficult for a youngster to distinguish between the different types of "learning", and a beginner to articulate what they don't know. The latter can be helped if the beginner does their best to learn with whatever materials are available, and then to be able to state what puzzles them.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 07:05:53 pm
content: Learning from tutors - some may "resonate" or simply demystify, whereas others confuse.... is it a personal, or cultural affect?

author: Zenith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 09:49:50 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 17, 2024, 04:25:29 pmReading the OP' s first post, I think it's obvious where he's coming from. He's in the second half of his teens, he can see the possibilities of electronics, and would like to get things working and would like to understand how and why they work. He has a desire to pursue this through higher education. Most of us were there and can sympathise. He has limited means. So tinkering together things like a simple audio amplifier, or investigating astables, bistables and monostables would be immensely instructive. At one time there were educational electronic toys/outfits that would cover these things. Many of us profited from them.He has an ambition to make an electronic dice, presumably from discrete parts. The obvious approach to me was to use a µcontroller, but that's not basic electronics, and gets us into software.As for soldering, I gave my best advice, although I'm not entirely sure what a "hot stick" is. It could be anything from a 250W iron to a 12W number, and probably not a soldering station or instant heat soldering gun. I normally use an 18W Antex pencil iron, and manage to struggle by. I have numerous others, useful at times.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2024, 11:33:20 pm
content: There are two usual methods:Go through official channels (ie 4-year university degree) to learn theory, and read up on the practical aspects.Do "stuff" (kits, magazines, web, reading, technical school, ham license) to learn practical aspects, and pick up as much theory as you can.My experience suggests that the degree teaches too much theory (SO MUCH CALCULUS!) and not enough practical stuff, but it is ... helpful ... if you want to be employed in the field :-)(It was Senior year at my f'ing prestigious Ivy League University that we noticed that some of the EE candidates didn't know how to solder... But we had analyzed the 555 timer at the transistor level, so I'm sure it was all fine.)It's vaguely possible that "digital Electronics" isn't really electronics (until suddenly it is!)Software has similar issues. They used to teach secretaries "how to code" (in COBOL, of course. It's mostly typing, you know, and men don't know how to type), and yet I've met CS PhDs who "can't code their way out of a paper bag."

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 04:48:50 pm
content: "And the Pi has a full blown network stack"I think this is a clear indication of why, for this scenario the OP would want an Arduino not a Pi (Pi Pico exempted, that is a true MCU and could be just as good as an arduino). If you want to learn electronics an arduino is better for low level interaction with electronic components and circuits, the Pi is for higher level matters like networking with existing hardware.This is definitely my opinion, but I'd suggest that thesedays, low-level embedded software at the bit-banging and ADC sort of level counts as "electronics" whereas networking enters the realm of "computer science / software enginering / sysadmin stuff". There is definitely a continuum between them, but the Pi is a device you use for operations mid way on that continuum, an arduino compatible MCU is something you use for electronics directly.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2024, 05:13:21 pm
content: Quote from: westfw on July 17, 2024, 11:33:20 pmEverybody over here learned calculus before they went to university. In my case our my state school syllabus included integration and differentiation of polynomials (except 1/x) for "O-Level" exams at 15.QuoteDoctors over here are likely to be incompetent at taking blood samples; they leave that to nurses and phlebotomists. Does that make doctors useless?Who would you rather have set the standard pathways for cancer treatments - a researcher, a doctor, or a nurse?Who would you rather have diagnose your disorder - a doctor or a nurse?Who would you rather have take your blood or apply a plaster cast - a doctor or a nurse?Does it matter that someone sufficiently skilled to determine a course of treatment can't draw blood safely? No, of course it doesn't.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 08:18:58 am
content: QuoteReally? Multi-variable, vector calc, 3d, gradiants, divergence, polar and cylindrical coordinates, differential equations, assorted series, significant complex number theory, linear algebra ?That's pretty much what I meant by "lots of calculus" (even though some of it isn't quite "calculus.")Since what I remember and occasionally use is more basic principles and ideas, rather than fancy techniques for figuring out the value of a capacitance given a non-constant dielectric, it's not clear that your pre-university calc (and mine) wouldn't have been "sufficient."I'm not saying that either path is "bad", per se. But both are somewhat "incomplete", and whether either will meet any particular person's "desired goals" is ... up in the air.I was ... very depressed ... that most EE classes and labs I took were all about measuring and analysis, and hardly any "design a practical thing." The logic classes were slightly better; in one, the class was supposed to collectively design a minicomputer. In a semester. I think the prof was slightly crazy. (Sam Goldwasser, who subsequently went on tosome degree of (pre-(flashy)web?) Internet fame(which didn't particularly change my opinion!))As another example, there is some amount of electronics knowledge required to obtain an amateur radio operator (ham) license. There are classes and text that teach exactly that material. They're not a bad starting point, either (hmm. worth linking, even:https://www.arrl.org/arrl-basic-electronics-course) But you'll oscasionally meet people who will quote things like "a dipole antenna should be (468 / frequency in Mhz) feet long" and have no idea where that comes from (ie they learned "enough" and stopped (OTTH, we all "stop" somehere.)) And of course it's very radio-oriented.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 10:58:44 am
content: Quote from: westfw on July 19, 2024, 08:18:58 amInstead of constructing strawman arguments, it would be better if you includedallof mytwo-lineparagraph, viz:"Everybody over here learned calculus before they went to university. In my case our my state school syllabus includedintegration and differentiation of polynomials (except 1/x)for "O-Level" exams at 15."If you want to make a point, then giving examples of what you mean is better than SHOUTING AN AMBIGUOUS STATEMENT. You did, of course, give examples as quoted above.Anybody that imagines "all of calculus" could be taught, let alone to 14 year olds, has somewhat inflated expectations. Pre-university calculus cannot - and should not - be sufficient for any single university course nor career.Complex numbers, polar/cylindrical coordinates, linear algebra were "A-level" subjects. (A-levels are normally taken immediately before going to university.)As for the balance between university theoretical and practical syllabus, I wasverycareful to choose a course that included both. I ignored many prospectuses that didn't give an indication that was the case, and didn't visit those faculties. Returning with friends (including one on this forum!) to an open day 40 years later, I/we were pleased to see that the tradition continued, e.g. students could use the lab equipment for their home projects.

author: nfmax
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 12:48:05 pm
content: One thing you learn, when you start learning anything seriously, is that you will never stop learning. There’s always something you don’t know. Eventually, there will be something thatnobodyknows

author: PGPG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 01:32:41 pm
content: Hello everyone.This thread was one of the reason I decided to register at EEVblog, but later I decided to not write here anything. But I see it is all the time active thread so I will add my 3 cents not trying to argue with anyone.The title question can be understood in 2 ways:1. What do you suggest me to do to learn electronics?2. How different ways you went in your way learning electronics?Each of people here went his own way. There are good electronic engineers who had never even touched soldering iron and can say there is no need to practice if I can calculate everything, and there are others who can think practice and only practice will make you good engineer. If we take such two individuals here they will be able argue endlessly.I went lot of practice (before knowledge) way but I accept existence of the only theoretic approach. In my case practice was what showed me what knowledge to seek.My first contact with electricity was when I was 4 years and 4 months old. I liked to switch Christmas tree on/off by inserting plug into socked. As socked those time have very shallow edge I managed to touch both pins with my finger when they were already in contact with AC220V.When I was 9 my father (mechanical engineer) told me 'how transformer works' so on the 30W core I wound 7 coils of primary winding and 1 coil of secondary winding and connected AC voltmeter to secondary and inserted primary into AC220 socket and ... I didn't get expected 31V at output.When I was 10 I build my first radio receiver (LC+diode+C+2k headphones) and it worked.With one exception (transistor radio receiver) I have never assembled any kits (there were no such things here those time) and access to elements was restricted so each found somewhere schematic I had to adopt to elements I had so I started to calculate schematics very early. I was able to calculate working point of transistor (pnp germanium those time) in my circuit but I was not able to calculate transistor voltage gain if it was not set (limited) by external elements. But with such knowledge (being 19) I was able during one afternoon without drawing the schematic to construct (in the form of a spider on a newspaper (without any PCB)) the circuit to switch on/off my (AC220) desk lamp by clapping my hands. This is my voice in discussion about how much (or rather how little) theoretical knowledge is needed to construct something working.During my studies, my main impression was: "Oh shit, everything I know intuitively can be calculated." Being a student I designed and made oscilloscope. It was the only way for me to have one and it has been my biggest dream for years. I was so proud of it that I have send article to electronic magazine and 1.5 year later they published it.https://archive.org/details/Re0184OCR/Re_04_84_OCR/page/n7/mode/2up?view=theaterElectronics language is schematics so you can get everything about my oscilloscope without reading a word (you can rotate pages). Each X and Y amplifiers stage gain is set by resistor values. What is important is to have enough current everywhere to allow for full needed voltage difference in each stage. To drive X/Y deflection by not too high voltage transistors (didn't had better ones) I had to reduce anode voltage of tube and time electrons spend between deflection plates determined the bandwidth. So even analyzing the circuit bandwidth was not needed. Of course you have to know that high resistance input divider has to have also capacitors, but generally only simple, linear calculations were needed to design this.Because of it I think that it should be named simple electronic circuit (even those time I thought of it as a complicated one).I'd like to conclude that having practical knowledge without high theoretic knowledge allows some kind of usable electronic circuits successfully do. But there are other electronic circuits you are not able to do without deep theory understanding.

author: Picuino
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 02:20:09 pm
content: One of the most elusive theoretical insights is feedback theory. It is easy to find feedback in virtually any electronic circuit and it is not easy to calculate the input or output parameters without a theoretical understanding of the subject.As this simple circuit shows, what output impedance will it have? What gain?You can calculate it with the transistor parameters, but it is easier to interpret it as a feedback circuit (with voltage output and current input).https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html?ctz=CQAgjCCsB0AM8MYsBTAtAdhAZltM2AbABxHHElgCchhUsUIALNlOmGAFAAuIATHyYga-DH2F0GENNnx8wTFlUiQCVPuqx5C1Qk3jZI2GrEgZI4eCAAmKAGYBDAK4AbbpwBOo8WjB0+YszEIAxMGLCe3kHg6tEMAgicAOZRfvGBYBiSIZwA7qmE6eIc4hH5AeLERXF5MeJMwdTiImV1EvyC7REASlG+-oFoDSEj+owME9CQnADyUcOG9Y05Xk3tJV3M4fDJIHrghXtCmdkRAG5H7ftpIxD6DBYTIVO1+yIbLZwA9sKXobBUYKPfC3ThAA

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 03:50:25 pm
content: Quote from: nfmax on July 19, 2024, 12:48:05 pmPrecisely!And that's averygood thing tooAfter I've "returned" to electronics after a (pleasing) time in software, I've confirmedelectronics learning is about fundamentals that remain more-or-less unchanged over time. There are more fundamentals yet to learnsoftware learning is about the currently fashionable framework, which buttons to press, and flattie-vs-3D GUI widget fashion. Boring.Yes, that's an exaggeration, but there's still a lot of validity there.QuoteAnd the step after that is to work out which things nobody caneverknow.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 03:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: PGPG on July 19, 2024, 01:32:41 pmWelcomeMy main argument is with people that loudly state practical exclusive-or theoretical is The True Way. We need both practical and theoretical; both are necessary, neither is sufficient.<many good and useful points omitted below>QuotePrecisely

author: MarkT
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 07:27:22 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on July 14, 2024, 01:56:32 pmCertainly upto the level of ODEs and fluency with complex numbers and Fourier and Laplace transforms. And bits of discrete maths like coding theory, and of course computing and all things digital.And read datasheets. Lots of datasheets!

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 08:22:53 pm
content: Quote from: MarkT on July 19, 2024, 07:27:22 pmAnd their Application Notes.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2024, 08:35:16 pm
content: Quote from: MarkT on July 19, 2024, 07:27:22 pmYes, lots.That way you can do a "compare and contrast" to work out what a datasheetisn'tguaranteeing.Reading what has been omitted is a key skill in all works of life... "I won't give you a jam sandwich before you give me £100". What happens after you give me £100?Plus, as has been noted, read the application notes.

author: Teledog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 01:23:17 am
content: To each their own.I'm sure I'll get 'flamed" here, as usual.I was always fascinated with electronics as a kid, then took a home study Heath DC electronics course with the local college, back in the 80s, it was ~$20 which included talking/interviews with an electronics instructor.Then decided to take full time course (1 year) in digital electronics ..bought a ZX81, modified it & allA few years later got into ham & took another 1 year RF/coms course.But most education was learning from "good" people around me.Best wishes! G'Luck!

author: Shay
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2024, 07:58:58 am
content: 1. Read.2. Watch the correct type of videos.3. Exercise what you learn regularly.4. Think.Let me explain what I mean by each statement:1. Read - The more you read, the more you gain knowledge, so you are able to apply this knowledge to designing projects. It's super important to read books, articles, magazines, etc. Learn from everyone, just filter the shit from the good.2. What I mean by correct type is don't watch retarded videos that bloat you with useless, wrong knowledge. Just like you talk with people, some are OK, some are better if they are not near. So try to watch creators that have good experience in electronics, for example EEVblog or sambenyaakov.3. Knowledge is just neurons firing in your brain. This, by itself, does not make your computer work. So you have to actually apply it in order to get practical experience. Let's say you just learned about LC circuits. Now it's time to build one on the bench and start playing with the values and making measurements. Challenge yourself - ask yourself "what would happen if I reduced the capacitance by tenfold" and try to answer the question with the knowledge you have, and then perform an experiment. This makes everything you learned in theory click together like a lego in your brain.4. Think, be creative. Try to design things and test them, see why they don't work or work, pick up an interesting idea or a project you want to design, take your time to play with ideas related, and dont always go to the same route as everyone, maybe think about a few design choices and try to decide which one is better. Simply thinking is very important, as it raises ideas and questions with "positive feedback" that always makes you learn more and more. (E,g one question into 2 which involves into 4, etc..)