almost bought a lemon - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 05:18:24 pm
content: Whew,In a moment of excitement when I thought an auction was ending within moments, I bid on a Samsung CP45FV in Austin, TX.Now that I've had time to check the pictures, I saw some boxes with 3 small lenses on them, laying on the feeder trays.I put a message on SMTNET, and somebody confirmed they were part of the flying vision camera system. So, either the machine has been picked for parts or it had a major breakdown in the vision system and was never repaired.That could have been a colossal mess to get that machine ever running again, if the camera boards are missing.Jon

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 12:14:44 am
content: Did it sell? Would there be a price at which it could be worth the gamble?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 12:45:45 am
content: Quote from: Mangozac on July 08, 2020, 12:14:44 amit still has about 8 days to go. If somebody really KNEW this model, or wanted one to pull parts off, it could be a very good deal.Working, they seem to go for $15K or so. VERY fine machine, 17K parts/hr, 6 nozzles, flying vision, capable down to 0.3mm pitch and also does BGAs and QFNs. And, feeders are VERY cheap and plentiful on the market. It is at $1175 or so now.But, I want a WORKING machine, not an endless project and money sink. And, I don't NEED 17K CPH, 3K would be just fine.So, I'm looking at some other units that are HOPEFULLY complete and ready to run.Jon

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 02:05:31 am
content: Yes, I know what you mean. As you say would be good for spares OR if you were very familiar with the machine it might then be feasible to get it up and running.I have always figured CPH ratings are like cars. You don'tneedfaster but the one you have is never fast enough

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 03:11:05 am
content: Quote from: Mangozac on July 08, 2020, 02:05:31 amActually, the one I have IS fast enough. I do some manual optimizing of feeder placement, it has 3 nozzles with permanent nozzle assignment and mechanical centering jaws. I have one nozzle set up for 0603 to 1210, one set up for SOIC and one with no jaws for large chips, that are centered in the mechanical aligner station. it works up to and even a bit beyond the stated accuracy of the machine.But, unfortunately, I need more accuracy, as I'm using a lot of .65 and 0.5 mm lead pitch parts. Also, the centering jaws don't handle a wide range of part shapes. 2:1 like an 0805 or SOIC16 are fine, square parts don't get properly centered. The encoders only go to 0.01mm, so there's really no hope of doing those 0.5mm pitch chips. But, it does a great job with anything bigger than 0.65mm lead pitch at a real 3000 CPH. It is also limited to 6.5 mm component height. Just a little more would be good.So, I want to get a machine with some kind of flying vision. It doesn't have to be really fast, 3000 CPH would be fine. There are a number of machines that would work. Samsung CP40, Quad QSA30CV (made by Samsung) Quad IV C (although these are pretty old), Philips Eclipse. The Samsung CP feeders seem to be readily available, Quad feeders are less available and expensive.Well, I keep looking, the auction in Austin, TX closes in 7 days. I'll see if I can catch one of those machines.Jon

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 03:25:23 am
content: We're currently commissioning our new Kayo 6 head placer and getting average speeds of 6000CPH. It's theoretically all we need but already I can't help feeling faster would be betterGood luck with your search!