Any PC-scope for 2018 winter? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:06:09 pm
content: Hi!I`m looking for cheap PC-scope like oldest Hantek 6022beAny impruvements for 2018?Thanx

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2018, 07:48:41 pm
content: Well,ifyou're looking in the same price range and bandwidth region as the 6022be then the Owon VDS1022i (isolated version) is far superior...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 06:05:37 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on October 22, 2018, 07:48:41 pmIs it still good?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 10:04:25 am
content: For the price, yes. Good UI, triggering and sample rates all works as advertised, noise levels are low, minimal PC overhead etc. It also has AC coupling which the 6022be lacks.It's also the only Low cost PC scope with USB galvanic isolation, even the more expensive Digilent Analog discoveries don't have that. You can get the non-USB isolated 1022 version a bit cheaper, but think of the difference as a one-time insurance premium - Shit happens and with a USB scope it tends to end quite badly.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 02:08:29 pm
content: Man that software sure sucks long time.For that kind of money i would get the cheapest picoscope 2000 (PICO 2204)you lose bandwidth (10MHz vs 25MHz) and the alternate trigger but the software is waaay more advanced. You can decode protocols with the pico, do advanced math and stuff like that.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 03:10:59 pm
content: I think it's partially a case of what you're used to, I have a picoscope too (16 bit) but I've always found the UI less intuitive (I use the Pico FFT SA functions a lot for audio but that doesn't get you much much on an 8-bit model) - not that the Owon one is anywhere near perfect of course but it's ok and reasonably simple to use.I know I make a big thing of the Galvanic isolation but you can do an awful lot of (writeoff) damage to your PC, especially laptop, with a non-isolated device, there are several sob stories to be found on here.The OP hasn't got his country flag set but current cheapest prices incl Shipping I see are:Hantek 6022be (20MHz 48Msps, non isol): GBP 44.77 (ebay China)Owon VDS1022 (25MHz 100Msps non isol): GBP 51.35 (ebay Hong Kong)Owon VDS1022i (25MHz 100Msps isolated): GBP 69.93 (ebay Hong Kong)Picoscope 2204 (10MHz 100Msps non isol): GBP 118.80 (Pico direct, UK to UK) - (one 'as new' unit on ebay at GBP 115)Note, all prices incl. probes + tax + shipping to UK. I didn't try Aliexpress or other trading sites.As usual (), the OP has given no indication of location, budget or spec requirements, other than "cheap PC-scope like oldest Hantek 6022be", so either of us could have the right answer. I agree, the Pico is a possible alternative.P.S. Protocol decode, yes agreed. Unless he already has a cheap Saleae LA clone.

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 05:03:35 pm
content: ebay seller will be okprice about $100 will be ok tooWhat kind of mathematics was obstucted in OWON vs Picoscope?I need for cursor measurments and basic spectrum analysis for impulse power supplies and audio amplifiers

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 05:56:05 pm
content: Your best option is to research the two products yourself and decide whether specific features are needed or helpful for your intended use:http://files.owon.com.cn/specifications/OWON%20VDS%20Series%20PC%20Oscilloscope%20technical%20spec.s.pdf[EDIT: Substituted user manual instead of help file]http://files.owon.com.cn/probook/VDS_Series_User_Manual.pdfhttps://www.picotech.com/download/datasheets/picoscope-2000-series-data-sheet-en.pdfhttps://www.picotech.com/download/manuals/picoscope-6-users-guide.pdfYou can also download and run the software packages, with the Owon you just get the user interface without the scope so that you can play around with the UI and controls, I think the Pico software might have a 'demo device' mode.http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.ziphttps://www.picotech.com/downloads/_lightbox/PicoScope6(I've already said too much about galvanic isolation.)

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 07:14:09 pm
content: BTW not having native USB isolation for that special mains-fireworks day is not an issue:https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/USB-ISO/I have couple of these lying around and real great help on special occasions. For example today I noticed massive ~0.2A ground loop between Pico 2408B and AD2 connected to same laptop. Stuck AD2 behind USB-ISO and problems gone. Make sure supply external power, on-board converterwilloverheat and possibly destroy the isolator. Isolator will downgrade operation speed, it's USB 1.1. But often not a huge issue.There are many other ADUM4160 based devices around (incl. cheaper). Plus some newer USB 2.0 and even 3.0 isolator, which is in my shopping list:https://www.alldaq.com/en/products/pc-sio/usb-isolators/adq-usb-30-iso/

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 07:33:32 pm
content: As you say there is a speed downgrade - Actually the spec of the ADUM4160 based isolators, including the Olimex, is USB2.0 Full Speed (12Mbps) when you'd ideally want USB2.0 High Speed (480Mbps). It really depends on what you are trying to isolate - it will kill a 6022be or cheap Saleae clone LA more or less stone dead as they rely on PC memory for their buffering (they don't have any themselves), so USB performance is critical.Interesting that the AD2 can take the hit, it would be a useful exercise to quantify the reduction in performance.That USB3.0 5Gbps isolator is well overdue, but EUR 229? That's going to keep it pretty niche and out of the reach for typical low cost USB test gear... Sadly!

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 09:09:15 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on October 24, 2018, 07:33:32 pm4800Hz in, all scopes on100us/divwfm/s: Direct vs ADUM4160PicoScope 220512.5MSa/s12.5kSa31.25wfm/s vs 24wfm/sDPO:100us/div781.3kSa/s781Sa310wfm/s vs 40wfm/sPicoScope 2408B15.63MSa/s15.625kSa28wfm/s vs 18.5wfm/s125MSa/s125kSa38wfm/s vs 18wfm/sDPO:1.25MSa/s1250Sa330wfm/s vs 200wfm/sAnalog Discovery 214.286MSa/s16.384kSa80wfm/s vs 13.1wfm/sAFAIK AD2 and PS2205 do transfer full record, while 2408B uses onboard mem and transfers only snapshot. Freq of snapshot transfer seems to be limited by something, prob. by comms cycle with PS6 software since it stays the same even with much higher record lengths. AD2 does not have DPO mode, Picos do have but with very limited buffer length.AD2 seems to transfer 2x16.384kSa even with second channel disabled.In any case all scopes remained fully usable with isolator, so on that special day when poking mains, why not.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 09:27:49 pm
content: Wow, that was more comprehensive than I expected! Useful data, thanks. Onboard memory is clearly the key, as might be expected.

author: MrW0lf
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2018, 09:43:28 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on October 24, 2018, 09:27:49 pmTechnically AD2 also has onboard but uses it in less clever way, except peak detect and some other trickery with ADC running full speed in background which Picos seem to lack. 2205 has DPO and 2408B has additional Rapid trigger with >1M wfm/s (it wont communicate with sw until buffers collected). If remember correctly measured 1.3M max.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2018, 12:11:47 am
content: Quote from: Gyro on October 24, 2018, 03:10:59 pmI'm used to not use a digital scope as if it was an analog oneTry the math channel sometimes. Besides there being a lot of them and that you are ultimately limited by your computer performance you can do math with the signal itself, with frequency, period and other parameters from the signal. Integrals and derivatives. And math on math. What's this +-*/ rubbish?Have multiple windows simoltaneously with also different viewsFor prices i checked "official" sellers outside ebay, it seemed to me that the isolated owon came up at about 100 poundsQuoteSometimes you need a scope for that too... For example I HATE using I2C, especially when there was malfunction you can only detect by the fact that the zero becomes slightly "stronger" for a number of clockscan't see that on a logic analyser. But besides this..

author: 001
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 31, 2018, 03:35:55 pm
content: Quote from: JPortici on October 25, 2018, 12:11:47 amWhat do You mean?