FeelTech FY3224S 24MHz 2-Channel DDS AW Function Signal Generator - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2015, 10:22:28 pm
content: Very cheap 24MHz 2-Channel function generator with support for arbitrary waveforms.They sell it on Ebay for only 130 USD, which is much cheaper than the Siglent SDG1025http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/24MHz-Dual-channel-Arbitrary-Waveform-DDS-Function-Signal-Generator-FY3224S-/281537687541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item418cf42ff5I understand that the Siglent provides much more features and has a colour screen, but if the FY3224s delivers the basic functionality it is required to do so, and if it is both accurate and reliable, then it could be a valid budget alternative.Does anybody on this forum have experience with the FeelTech FY3224s function generator?What is your experience? How accurate and reliable is it?Is the table correct in the specifications? Does it really only support 24 MHz on the sine wave?Is it easy to download an arbitrary waveform to the memory of the function generator?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2015, 10:31:56 pm
content: A similar instrument. Probably OK for hobby use.https://www.insidegadgets.com/2015/02/20/inside-the-feeltech-12mhz-dds-function-generator/But that Siglent is much better.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2015, 01:27:55 am
content: The case is almost empty. All the electronics are on the front panel.Some people want to make a backplate for the front panel to make it smallerWould like to know more about the internal architecture and the arbitrary waveform support.

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 30, 2015, 11:07:30 pm
content: I purchased the FY3224s and should arrive early next week. I don't believe this box will be as empty as that other version that was linked to. That other version doesn't have nearly the features that the FY3224s has anyway. I chatted with the Chinese fellow that I am purchasing it from and he is very jazzed about the product. I will be opening it up for sure when it arrives. If it's everything it's represented to be, it's a bargain price for those features! I paid $136 for it. I also purchased the portable GK101 10MHz model with 3" touchscreen. I like it and have used it for about a week.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 11:56:11 am
content: Besides pictures of a tear down, can you also verify the max frequency on all the waveforms, and the quality of the produced signals?Note that I was under the impression that it only can reach 24 MHz for sine wave, and that all the other waveforms can only go up to 6 MHz, unless the table contains a typo.

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 04:39:23 pm
content: Sure, I will post some pictures of the tear down and verify the accuracy of it's specifications. I think it's funny that you mention that it will only do 6MHz beyond a sine wave...that's better than the Siglent except on the square which is 10MHz, and it isn't the best looking square at that! 6MHz for an arbitrary waveform is actually very good. I can't see how the Siglent has much better specs at all really.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 31, 2015, 07:14:32 pm
content: Yes I just notice that Siglent has limitations too. Was expecting 25 MHz on all types of signals.Must have missed that. The pulse and arbitrary go only to 5 MHz, the ramp only to 300 KHz, only the sine and square wave seem to go to 25 Mhz.Do you know what chip they use in the FeelTech FY3224S signal generator?Did you buy it on Ebay? There is also one on AliExpress that actually has FeelTech on the front:http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/24MHz-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-Fully-Numerical-Control-Dual-channel-DDS-Function/1770038_32326724304.html

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 01, 2015, 02:19:38 am
content: I purchased it from eBay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/24Mhz-Dual-ch-DDS-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-sweep-Software-/121478483178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c48ae8ceaThe ones that actually say FeelTech on the front panel are the inferior ones to the FY32XX models. I have purchased much tech from the seller that I linked over a five year period. I'm in the US and his stuff arrives in about 11 days total. I'm not sure what chip it has in it, but I will know by Wednesday.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2015, 02:04:09 pm
content: Interesting to learn that FeelTech itself is not that goodHow did you learn about this yourself?Looking forward to your measurements!

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2015, 12:06:04 am
content: Tombdiver, curious about the FY32xxS series of products. So, did you receive it yet and what do you think?

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 06, 2015, 07:07:10 am
content: Yes, I received the unit, unboxed it and fired it up. I was surprised to see the FeelTech name on the front panel Basically it is very similar in appearance and functionality to its predecessor the FY22XX series. I did remove the top and took a peek, but the inside is also very similar to the FY22xx series of these function generators too (EMPTY), okay, the power supply board actually took up some space on this version. It's using the Altere Cyclone chip (version 1). I was called out for work and have been busy since. I plan to get back to it soon and will post some findings and pics. Here is one picture though. Don't laugh at my BK oscilloscope!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2015, 07:33:56 am
content: Quote from: tombdiver on May 31, 2015, 04:39:23 pmRisetime?

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2015, 12:43:40 pm
content: tombdiver,Thanks for the tease on seeing this unit. In addition to performance testing I would love to see of picture of the insides and know something about the power supply. I have thoughts of adding circuitry inside the empty space and if the supply has extra power that would be great.Is it just the Altera Cyclone FPGA or is there a microprocessor in sight some where? If no micro then they must be using a soft core processor inside the FPGA.gby

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 06:49:17 pm
content: Quote from: tombdiver on June 06, 2015, 07:07:10 amDidn't you write in the initial comments that FeelTech is inferior quality to the unbranded version?Or was that a misunderstanding?

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 03:28:20 am
content: I was referring to another model that had the FeelTech name stamped on it. It was inferior to this one (because it was a completely different model). I know of two others that ordered the FY3200s and they do not have the FeelTech name on them anywhere. I wasn't really impressed by this offering at first because of its lack of intuitiveness, but after about 10 minutes I felt comfortable going through the motions of its features. Is it worth $136? Yes, I think so. I have been super busy with upgrades on our network, hopefully I will get to some measurements soon.

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 08:31:37 am
content: how does this compare to the mhs-2300a?

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 01:36:18 pm
content: There is another thread about the mhs-2300a:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/any-reviews-or-experience-with-this-function-generator/

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2015, 08:37:59 pm
content: Comparison Feeltech FY3200S and MH Instek MHS-5200AI was looking for an inexpensive small bench two channel signal generator. I wanted to be able to output sine, cosine waveforms for I and Q and then with a knob to vary the frequency from pretty low up to > 4 MHz. There are many instruments in the $250+ category that can do this but I was looking sub $100 budget. I narrowed it down to two choices:Feeltech FY3200S:ebay sellers:fly-xy,elecdesign2015web site:www.feeltech.netChinese translated to EnglishMH Instek MHS-5200A:ebay seller:t-happyweb site:www.mhinstek.comproduct not listed but candownload Chinese manual, SWBelow is a comparison chart between the two for the major specs and the specs I was interested in. I couldn't find a way to insert a table formatted in a word processor so it is a crude fixed width font and spaces to format for this post.Specification FY3200S MHS-5200ASample Frequency 250 Msamp/sec 200 MSamp/secWaveform Resolution 12 bits 8 bitsWaveform length 2048 1024Waveform memories 4 16Amplitude 50 Ohm load 5 mVp-p – 10 Vp-p 7.5 mVp-p – 7.5Vp-pSine max frequency 6-24 MHz per model 6-25 MHz per modelSquare, Triangle, Arb max f 6 MHz 6 MHzSquare rise time < 100 nSec spec ?? < 20 nSec< 20 nSec measuredOutputs Ch 1, Ch2, TTL A, B Ch1, Ch2, TTL A, B4 GP TTL out, 1 GP TTL InFrequency Counter Input 2-20 Vpp, 1 Hz – 100 MHZ 0.5-20 Vpp, 0.1 Hz – 60 MHzFreq, count Freq, count, width, dutyPower Input Ac line 85 – 260 Vac 5Vdc from external adapterFront Panel Interface 10 Button mostly 6 Buttons must usededicated functions shift button for functionsComputer Control USB 1.0 USB 1.0Dimensions WxDxH 200x190x90 mm 190x180x71 mmRelative Ebay cost deliv US $86 6 MHz $68 6 MHz$100 24 MHz $81 25 MHzBased on the above comparison it comes down to need/personal preference which one is a better fit. For me I prefer the direct ac line cord rather than the wall 5V external supply and I really thought the 12 bit with 2048 waveform length versus 8 bit and 1024 had value. So, I went with the FY3206S even though it was $20 more. I will admit the MHS-5200A 4 channel general purpose logic signal pattern generator sounded interesting. But, I suspect that with only 1024 time states that their value in real circumstances is limited.So, I bought the FY3206S and will post test data soon.Edited 7/25/15At this point the FY3212S 12 MHz generator is only $67.94 and thus the FY3200S's are the same cost level as the MHS-5200's.

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2015, 10:19:25 pm
content: I have received my FY3206S generator and have had some time to test it so I thought I would share some oscilloscope screen shots and some data.First thing I noticed is that this generator uses very little power. I powered it through Kilowatt power meter.10 kHz Sines 10 Vp-p no load: 1 W10 kHz Sines 10 Vp-p 50 Ohm load: 2 W6 MHz Sines 20 Vp-p no load: 3 W6 MHz Sines 20 Vp-p 50 Ohm loads: 3 W*USB connection does not change power.Nice low powerI then checked out the performance with a Tektronix MDO3104 1 GHz BW, 5 GS/s oscilloscope. I connected with BNC to BNC cables with the scope set to terminate in 50 Ohm.Per request earlier in the thread first up is rise time for a square wave. The square is nice and clean with rounded edges, linear slope, and essentially no overshoot. Measured 10-90% rise time is 19 nsec. Perfectly fine for a 6 MHz square. Feeltech spec is "<100 nSec" but 100 nSec makes no sense for a 6 MHz square so I am assuming that spec is a typo in the manual. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 Sqr Rise 5Vpp.png".Second, we have investigation of square wave edge jitter. With the set frequency a simple integer sub multiple of the 250 MHz sample rate I could not see any jitter. I assume if I really looked I would at least see sub nSec jitter. If I picked a non-integer sub-multiple I could see two distinct edges (via scope persistence turned on) 5 nSec apart. For non-integer sub-ratios you would expect one cycle of the 250 MHz clock =4 nSec spaced edges once in a while to get the average frequency to the set point on average. I also looked 9 cycles beyond the scope trigger point to give it more chance of edge jitter. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 Sqr Jitter 5Vpp.png".I then looked at triangle wave linearity and sharpness of the corners at the peaks. At 1 Vp-p set point yielding 500 mVpp at the scope at 1 MHz the slopes are very linear and the corners look pretty sharp. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 1MHz Trgl 500mVpp.png".Next up is 500 mVpp triangle at the full 6 MHz. There is some rounding of the peaks and the p-p measured amplitude drops 15.6% but overall pretty nice triangle waveform for top frequency. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 6MHz Trgl 500mVpp.png".Now moving on to sine wave purity/distortion. Attached is an FFT spectrum of a 10 Vpp set point amplitude at 100 kHz. Measured fundamental amplitude is +4.8 dB or 1.75 Vrms or 4.94 Vpp (low by 1.2%). The largest harmonic was the fifth at -51 dB relative to the fundamental. Based on this spectrum I would say THD is < 0.5% although I don't have a direct THD measurement. Easily below the published spec of 0.8% at 1 kHz. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 100kHz Sine Spectrum 5Vpp.png".Lastly, I checked the noise and distortion while outputting the smallest amplitude set point of 10 mVpp. The noise on the waveform with the scope set to 1 mV/div was a fuzzy width of the sine waveform of about 0.4 mVp-p or about 0.15 mVrms which is close to the scope's measurement noise. Looking at the spectrum the largest harmonic is about 40 dB down. Note that at this small level there are harmonic lines showing up at 140 kHz which is not related to the 100 kHz sine and is either a generator noise and/a very high frequency signal aliasing on the scope's 100 MS/s setting for this measurement. At any event that spectrum peak is only 30 uV rms. All in all, pretty good low amplitude results. See attached scope shot "FY3206S MDO3104 100kHz Sine Spectrum 5mVpp.png".The one bad thing with this generator is that the output amplifier can not drive a full 10 Vp-p across a 50 Ohm termination load with the set point set to 20 Vp-p. The specification trickily lists no load output as up to 20 Vp-p, which it does, and lists the output impedance = 50 Ohm, which it has, but the specs lists nothing about output amplitude with 50 Ohm load. By my measurements at all frequencies the amplitude maxes out around 7.5 Vp-p across 50 Ohm. It seems fully linear up to about 10 Vp-p set point. At 11 Vp-p set point the third harmonic for a 20 KHz waveform grows by 10 dB instead of the ideal expected 0.8 dB if the wave shape stayed constant and only amplitude grew by 11/10 gain. So, fully usable up to 10 Vp-p set point with 50 Ohm load while larger amplitudes are only useful with less load.*This limited output drive capability explains why the 6 MHz 20 Vp-p set point power draw with and without 50 Ohm load can both be 3 W given the power doesn't report fractional Watts.Just for fun I made an 2048 point waveform that is 10 sine cycles. This way when commanding 6 MHz you actually try to output 60 MHz. I would say using this technique you get usable output up to the full FY3224S product of 24 Mhz. Above 30 MHz the amplitude drops and the phase lag increases rapidly. Below are my test results:Ch1 at 2.00 Vp-p (1.0 Vp-p into 50 Ohm) at 100 kHz for reference output amplitude:(Phase measured relative to TTL sync pulse output)Freq Amp PhaseMHz dB Deg6.0 -0.5 -6010.0 -1.5 -9115.5 -3.1 -13720.0 -4.9 -18024.0 -6.9 -220I even tried multiple cycles of a square wave and could get a usable but not "pretty" square wave up to 15 MHz.I am guessing that if you pay the extra money for the FY3224S version you probably get the exact same HW with the FW letting the max frequency go up to 24 instead of the 6 for the FY3206S model I tested. Maybe there is an capacitor value difference in the DAC/output buffer amplifier low pass filter that allows higher bandwidth but I doubt it.If there are any questions I will try to answer them. I will also update if further testing shows up anything interesting.gbyWarning: On my Win 7 64 bit PC I did not install the old USB driver that was emailed to me. I just plugged the unit in and let Windows find the latest driver for me. When using the PC software it seemed to work. Until I tried to send an arbitrary waveform down to the unit. It erased the current waveform and then got stuck when trying to download the new data eventually reporting a Parity Error2. After trying many things, including learning that the USB connection is a Prolithic Technologies USB to serial PL-2303HX bridge chip, I finally beat Windows into submission to forget the new driver it had found and installed the old one emailed to me. In that configuration everything works fine. However, the USB to serial bridge chip is now obsolete and Prolithic states on their web site they will NOT update the driver for that chip for Win 8, 8.1. They recommend using their new pin for pin compatible chip instead.

author: pdereus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 11:23:24 am
content: Thanks for your extensive post GBY. I've bought a FY3206S myself (6MHz sine), reckoning the bandwidth would be 24MHz anyway. Looking at my FFT's for a square wave that seems to be the case, so no BW limiting on the models, probably just a firmware setting.I am writing a Labview driver for it*), but have difficulty with the original software to upload wave forms to it: the software always bails out with an error (see screenshot). The software I received is "FY3200 PC software V1.0" and the FY3200 firmware says REV1.2.I installed the serial driver that came with the package.How did you get the waveform upload to work? Different SW version (if so, where can I download) or just the serial driver?*)I've sorted most serial commands for this driver, but could not finish the waveform uploads. Your help is much appreciated!FY3200s command set (work in progress):a - get device id FY3206S\ncf - query main channel freq. respose e.g. cf0000000050cd - get main duty cycle - cd500df - set secondary frequency e.g. df0001100000bf - set main channel frequency e.g. bfda - set secondary amplitude da08,00ct - get main channel xx e.g. ct10do - set secondary bias e.g. do02.1bd - set main duty cycle e.g. bd668dp - set secondary skew e.g. dp039tn - set trigger cycles e.g tn0001000ce - get counter frequency response e.g. ce0000000000cc - get counter count repsonse e.g. cc0000000000bc - clear countertt0 - trigger manuallytt2 - trigger channel 2tt1 - trigger externalbr0 - stop sweepbr1 - start sweepbr1.bf - set start frequency in cHz, e.g. br1\nbf600000000bs1.bf - set stop frequency in cHZ, e.g. bs1\nbf600000000bt - set sweeo time in sec 1-99, e.g. bt99bs2.bt - set sweeo time in sec 1-99, e.g. bs2\nbt99bm1 - linear sweepbm2 - log sweepbs - save settings in register nn e.g. bs00bl - load settings from register nn e.g. bl00dw0 - set secondary wave sinedw1 - set secondary wave squaredw2 - set secondary wave triangledw3 - set secondary wave arbitrary 1dw4 - set secondary wave arbitrary 2dw5 - set secondary wave arbitrary 3dw6 - set secondary wave arbitrary 4dw7 - set secondary wave lorentz pulsedw8 - set secondary wave Multi tonedw9 - set secondary wave Periodic random noisedw10 - set secondary wave ECGdw11 - set secondary wave trapezodial pulsedw12 - set secondary wave Sinc pulsedw13 - set secondary wave Narrow pulsedw14 - set secondary wave Gauss white noisedw15 - set secondary wave AMdw16 - set secondary wave FMNOTESfirst character:d set secondaryc get mainb set maint triggerc counterfrequencies in cHz (centi Hertz)

author: wd5gnr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 01:29:41 pm
content: One thing I found of interest while working on the MHS-5200A upload is that the TTI manager software (http://tti1.co.uk/downloads/waveman-plus.htm) is a free download (I think you do have to register). It runs under Window (or, in my case, Wine) and lets you create waveforms in several formats. I wrote my uploader to handle those formats (the NRM one is pretty much what I was going to target anyway):https://github.com/wd5gnr/mhs5200a

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 01:48:49 pm
content: Hi pdereus,Unfortunately I have no suggestions for the error you are getting. Once I got the USB serial driver to be the old one things just seemed to work. For reference, in Windows device manager the working for me driver reports as:Prolithic7/31/2007Ver 3.2.0.0The actual driver file is:C:\Windows\System32\drivers\ser2pl64.sysdated 7/31/2007 with file size 90,112 bytes. My memory of the driver that Windows installed via Windows Update check was something like version 3.6 and for me with that driver the supplied vendor software worked for everything except arbitrary waveform download.My unit also says ver 1.2 at power up and my PC software says ?'s when I do Help About so I assume it was trying to display Chinese characters and couldn't. The PC interface software install file that I ran is called: "FY3200PC SoftwareV1.3.exe" and is dated 5/22/15 with a size of 7,692,466. So, maybe it is newer. I have these versions working on Win 7 32 and Win 7 64. Unfortunately the file sizes are larger than the allowed 1000KB forum limit. I uploaded the zip file with the working driver, application I am using to dropcanvas.com. Since this is a no account "drop" it will expire in 3 days so download right away. Hope this solves your problem.http://dropcanvas.com/p1ul6I am very impressed with your list of the serial commands. I thought about trying to reverse engineer the serial protocol but thought it would be too much work. So, I asked the ebay vendor fly-xy I bought from if he could get a serial protocol specification. He said not in English but did get me a Chinese document. I started with Google Translate and then I have been editing to clean it up as I go along. See attached. We are writing a Python GUI to automate some specialized setups. Between us maybe we can get this document cleaned up and complete.

author: pdereus
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 09:29:11 pm
content: You've made my day! The v1.3 PC software you've uploaded did the trick, so I could get the protocol for waveform uploads (I made a Labview test that uploaded a 32x sinoid succesfully). Thanks also for the translated protocol. I may have missed some things in my reverse engineering.My latest results are here (including the ARB wave form uploads).a - get device id. response e.g. FY3206S\ncf - query main channel freq. respose e.g. cf0000000050cd - get main duty cycle - cd500df - set secondary frequency e.g. df0001100000bf - set main channel frequency e.g. bf0001100000da - set secondary amplitude da08.00do - set secondary bias e.g. do02.1bd - set main duty cycle e.g. bd668dp - set secondary skew e.g. dp039tn - set trigger cycles e.g tn0001000ce - get counter frequency response e.g. ce0000000000cc - get counter count repsonse e.g. cc0000000000bc - clear countertt0 - trigger manuallytt2 - trigger channel 2tt1 - trigger externalbr0 - stop sweepbr1 - start sweepbr1.bf - set start frequency in cHz, e.g. br1\nbf600000000bs1.bf - set stop frequency in cHZ, e.g. bs1\nbf600000000bt - set sweeo time in sec 1-99, e.g. bt99ct - get sweep time xx e.g. ct10bs2.bt - set sweep time in sec 1-99, e.g. bs2\nbt99bm1 - linear sweepbm2 - log sweepbs - save settings in register nn e.g. bs00bl - load settings from register nn e.g. bl00Wave uploadsDDS_WAVE\0xa5 - initialized, response should be 'F'DDS_WAVE\0xfx - erase memory n e.g. DDS_WAVE\0xf1 selects wf memory 1, response 'SE'DDS_WAVE\0x0x - (e.g.DDS_WAVE\0x03 - upload data to memory x, response should be 'W'. After that 2048 bytes should be sent high byte first.You need about 5 ms between each byte to avoid buffer overrunsWave form selectiondw0 - set secondary wave sinedw1 - set secondary wave squaredw2 - set secondary wave triangledw3 - set secondary wave arbitrary 1dw4 - set secondary wave arbitrary 2dw5 - set secondary wave arbitrary 3dw6 - set secondary wave arbitrary 4dw7 - set secondary wave lorentz pulsedw8 - set secondary wave Multi tonedw9 - set secondary wave Periodic random noisedw10 - set secondary wave ECGdw11 - set secondary wave trapezodial pulsedw12 - set secondary wave Sinc pulsedw13 - set secondary wave Narrow pulsedw14 - set secondary wave Gauss white noisedw15 - set secondary wave AMdw16 - set secondary wave FMd set secondaryc get mainb set main

author: tombdiver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 11, 2015, 11:40:40 pm
content: Nice work guys! I so wanted to get back to my 24MHz model but was so busy for a month I just needed rest after that.

author: gby
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2015, 04:16:24 pm
content: pdereus,I find connecting to the generator via USB cable a bit inconvenient since my computer is a fair distance from the lab bench. I have a JY-MCO bluetooth to serial converter that I am thinking about trying. (Seehttp://www.dx.com/p/jy-mcu-arduino-bluetooth-wireless-serial-port-module-104299#.VaKQdLkmI0s)Since you have been reverse engineering the serial protocol I hope you have figured out the definitions for the J4 serial port connections. What I am getting at is, interior serial port connector J4 lists the pin out on the silk screen as:5VGNDTXDRXDDepending on whether you name the signals for the device (DTE) or where they go (DCE) TXD might be the generator output or the input. So, do you know if pin 3 labeled TXD is driven by the FY3200 generator or if it listens on that pin?Second question, are the signals on these lines 3.3V level or 5V level?Thanks for any clarity you can provide here.gby