Pick and place machine with belt or screw ball ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: luk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 09:44:48 am
content: Hello,After days of research on the pick and place machine market, it's still unclear to me if I should choose a belt or a screw ball PnP machine.The speed is not a problem, neither the size of the components. I won't go under 0602, and if I need high volume, I will pay a company to mount it for me. However, I want the machine to be precise and the result to be repeatable, with as few maintenance as possible (even if I'm not scared to repair things myself).I have small batches of 100 to 300 PCB to mount per month and I can change the design during the production.So I wanted to know if a screw driven machine is worth its price : will I have to change the belt often on a belt machine ? Will I be able to change it myself ? Will I need to calibrate the machine more often than a screw driven PnP ? What about the repeatability of the positioning ?I have read almost all the posts from previous debates here on the forum about PnP machines, but I didn't find a clear answer.Thank you

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 10:07:21 am
content: Welcome to the forum, luk.Do you have any links to the machines you are considering? A cheap ball screw can be problematic from an adjustment and lubrication perspective. But yes, ball screws are generally more precise, due to their much lower backlash.

author: luk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 11:31:45 am
content: QuoteThanksActually I wanted to order the ZB3545TShttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/33040938024.htmlBut the manufacturer replace it with the ZB3545TP (see the attached picture).The main differences are:1. the new ZB3545TP is 38 feeders (instead of 30),2. has 4 additional cameras for small passives,3. is belt driven (ZB3545TS had screws)4. is a bit cheaperThe manufacturer says they put a belt because it increases the speed compared to the screw.Actually I'm also considering the cheaper ZB3245TSS. It has built-in feeders but I heard they doesn't work as well as Yamaha feeders.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32981949551.htmlAnd why not the SMT550, which has all I need (even too much) but is more expensive and heavier. However they are offering me 25 yamaha feeders for free with my orderhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000093141276.html

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 11:42:12 am
content: If you're only looking at 0603 then accuracy and drive type isn't an issue. Any pick & Place can handle this just fine. 0.5mm QFPs are probably the most challenging commonly-used part when it comes to accuracy, and that's as much about camera and rotation resolution as X/Y accuracy.Things like ease of programming, feeder reliability and parts availability are much more important. There are a limited number of options at the low end. Belt vs. ballscrew should be way down the list of deciding factors.

author: luk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 02:20:40 pm
content: Actually, even if 0603 would be the smallest part to place, I have some uC in QFN 0.5mm pitch to place as well. But ok, I got it, the axis drive system is not as important as I thought.I guess I can achieve greater precision if I lower the speed of a belt machine to decrease the backlash.What about the feeders ? Does Yamaha feeder really worth paying few hundred/thousand more for small batch production ? And do I only need an air compressor to make them work, or are there other accessories to buy ?

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 08:30:41 am
content: Quote from: luk on December 08, 2019, 11:31:45 amWas exactly in the same shoe as you and even on the same exact models in the list. The ZB sales person didn't mention to me that the ZB3545TP was a belt machine until 1 day before I went to their exhibition in Shenzhen. I would say build wise, their machines are very solid and have a very clean and simple to use software. I like the nozzle calibration process especially which is clear and repeatable but it is not implemented the same way for the ZB3545TP. The TP version can be had as cheap as $4500 during sales. After the exhibition, I managed to see the SMT550/HW-T4SG-50F in a office/small factory in Shenzhen. If you hunt around for the SMT550/HW-T4SG-50F, you might find lower price than what you found. Was actually being hunted instead (tips: Alibaba app, they know what you are looking for). There are quite a long list of OEM recipient (ZB used to be one of them) from the HWGC company (a fellow forumer was able to decompile the software). Jumping on the plane on this Wednesday to get my training on the HW-T4SG-50F at their factory in Beijing. They have also just release an upgraded version of the 8 head machine.

author: luk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 07:57:25 pm
content: QuoteThanks for the info and tips, that's very usefullI wish I could just spend one hour in a plane to visit them.Happy you confirm the ZB machines are well built. There are so few reviews online.So now I'm hesitating between the SMT550 for $7500 with 25 free feeders, and the ZB3545TP for $5000 plus $1250 for the feeders. For only $1250 more I can have a 0201 capable machine.Even if I don't need it, I can make it profitable by offering smd production services.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2019, 11:35:46 am
content: Hello Luk,We are the distributor for Neoden in Europe. There are over 200 Neoden4 already running in different countries.You can contact Renex in Poland to have a chat about the possibilities.The Neoden4 is very good on the 0402 and can also do 0201 when pickup height and nozzles are calibrated.The Smart1 (S1) is even better on the smaller components and we placed the 0201 right out of the box.Hope you find a good solution for your pick and place needs.www.Neodentech.euBest regards,Gerard

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2019, 01:44:43 pm
content: QuoteThe electric ports for electric feeders are not standard on the machine.Please make sure you ask for it. Some people didn't get it on their machine because they thought it comes standard...

author: urosg
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 21, 2020, 01:12:55 pm
content: Hi luk,I my self bought ZB3245TS two years ago. It is a decent machine, fits on a desk, and with the capability of 24 feeders is good for small batches.The most cumbersome are the feeders, which need frequent realignment / check to make sure not to have errors.This week I finally got it running and put it in use, the SMT550 machine, decided to go with this one instead of the ZB3245TSS just because of the feeders.From my three runs this week with the SMT550 I would not say it is 0201 capable (maybe with a lot of fiddling) but everything else they state I think holds.EDIT:And yes the 0201 electrical ports are optional, although nowhere says so, got the bridge installed with all the holes but no cabling and connectors. For me acceptable as I don't plan to use 0201 in any near future.