ANSMANN Got wild  4400mA charging power for AA  NiMH !!  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2011, 04:06:57 pm
content: I just had a look of the latest catalog of Ansmann products 2011-2012 ..I have left speechless with their latest model of fast charger..They call it asDigispeed 4UltraThose models haves selectable speed about slow or fast charging,even so their latest model , looks to was made so to handle their latest 1100 AAA at fast charge,and so it has 1100mA as fast charge option.But at the AA it does 2200/4400mA !!Their highest in mA AA it is at 2850 mA ..By pushing the charge current at 4400A , they go up to 54% above the nominal specs of their batteries.Speaking about specs the Ansmann AA 2850mA digital, are rated to 5400mA Max discharge current !!I do not know if by supplying active cooling on the chargers, and by investing at so much R&D on the AA rechargeable,ended up to race alone, and leading the race !!But my advice are that if some one comes near to thoseULTRAfast chargers,he must have and the correct batteries made also by Ansmann,or else he is in danger to have fireworks in his own room.All the Ansmann fast chargers and battery stations, they are very well made by using -DV charging , plus microprocessors that control everything, three steps charging for the battery stations ( large units) (Refreshing - Charge & Trickle ), and two steps for the fast AA chargers (Charge & Trickle ).Even if I all ready own their :Digispeed 4AAA 300/750mA & AA 700/1750mAEnergy 4 speedAAA 350/800mA & AA 850/2100mABattery station:Energy 8AAA 300 & AA 700mAI believe that theDigispeed 4Ultrait is a bit risky as marketing step.If some one owns it, I would like to see a mini review of it .. or just report what happens at fast charge 4400mA ?

author: Kibi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 11, 2011, 05:59:35 pm
content: That is some insane current to pass through such a small battery! I don't even charge car batteries at that rate.Who can be in such a hurry to charge a battery. Usually you get yourself more organised with enough batteries to do what ever you are doing if you cycle through batteries that quickly. High powered flash guns can gobble up a set of batteries rather quickly, but photographers are usually aware of this and carry enough fully charged spares around with them to last an hour or two whilst the dead ones are being refreshed at a sensible charge rate.Standard NiMH batteries do self discharge fairly quickly, so you might pick up a set only to find them low on juice so then you'd want to give them a really fast charge. However these days Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries are available which solves that problem.I wonder if there are any gadgets out there that can discharge AA's any quicker than that beast can charge them.Sure, Radio Controlled race cars etc. can consume over 75A peak, but they are not using AA's.Very interesting though.

author: Time
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2011, 09:20:14 pm
content: http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0.1.0/189/NSB170Blue_SES-542-37-04.01.pdfNOW THAT, my friends, is a battery.12V/6000A short circuit/No limit on the charging current

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2011, 09:53:40 pm
content: Well there is a good secret that the companies who make all those Low Self Discharge NiMH batteries,they do not say it to you.Their specifications stands for environmental temperature of 20C Max !!In simple words they last a bit more only in the winter time ( Low Self Discharge ).In summer there is no difference both standard NiMH and Low Self Discharge ones, acts the same.The best temperature to store one charged NiMH are at 6C.Do I need a refrigerator just to storage my NiMH ?High powered flash gunsIts true they are killers, yesterday I was making tests with AA and one 20GN small flash gun ( 2XAA) ,I was benchmarking two expensive DMM, of which one would monitor best the high and fast consumption,between every charge cycle.The numbers that I got was extremely reviling.3,2A Peak 1 Microsecond sampling2,4A Max 250 Microseconds sampling100mA minimum when it got charged.20 cycles as that, would make any AA to wake up for good , and get to 40C body temperature.I did try and a analog Amperes meter (made in Japan) the peak that it could show was just 2A,Yes the needles are slow, I admit it.Found the Users manual of this monster charger, it does advices to use exclusively Ansmann AA on it.Check the attachment.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 04:34:05 am
content: Why don't just wait 30 extra minutes? Charging batteries does not stop you from watching TV, guys! It prevents from having a fireworks show at home and saves big bucks on special batteries, also batteries will have a longer lifespan and you can use cheap batteries with them too.A good idea is to get dirt cheap NiCD batteries. Two sets for every remote you have. Keep one set for backup and change them when they get discharged, then charge them for an hour and voilá, another 2 months of TV without the annoyance on digging through the house to get some batteries.Keep the brand name NiMH for stuff like cameras and such.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 07:37:47 am
content: If you really need to recharge the batteries as fast as this charger and don't want to hurt them, go get an expensive charger like those used in model competitions.They feature temperature-regulated charging variable current, even you can connect individual cells in a battery pack to equalize them.But one thing I can say for sure: NOT cheap!.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 08:42:17 am
content: Quote from: Time on July 11, 2011, 09:20:14 pmhaha "Maximum Charge Current = no limit"i think that needs testing...

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 09:17:35 am
content: @Psi: to test that you need some serious current. I doubt this is available to any hobbyst, unless he/she is bilionaire

author: Kibi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 09:30:45 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 11, 2011, 09:53:40 pmIn my experience the LSD NiMH are very good.I bought a set of GP ReCyko batteries in Poland 2 years ago. I charged them in Poland and put them in my flash gun.I used the Flash at a wedding in Poland and then I have used the flash occasionally at home.Those ReCyko batteries that were last charged in Poland 2 years ago are still going, they are behaving is as if they are Alkaline batteries. My good Sanyo and Panasonic standard NiMH batteries that I charged 8 months ago and then stored are now discharged (self discharge).But, that is just my experience.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 03:15:00 pm
content: About batteries I own only top dogs like:Sanyo AA 2700X8Ansmann AA 2850 DigitalX4Some old AA by Kodak 2100mAhX4( 4 Years old)Sanyo Eneloop AA 2000mAhX4Old Sanyo 1600mAhX2( 11 years old) still kicking ( it was a set of four)Sanyo industrial AA 2100mAhX2( Green color no markings)Ansmann AAA 1100X4Even if the Eneloop considered as Low Self Discharge,In my tests I have not manage to verify the theoretical specs about be stored for months.Probably that's why Sanyo replaced the first version of Eneloop , with a newer one,four months back.I have no experience with ReCyko.Edit :Yes I have five digital cameras and professional High powered flash gun,plus I use AA in anything, LED headlight / LED hand lights / even at my bicycle warning lights.I wish to had the large Ansmann battery station " Energy 16 " but it is very expensive.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 05:07:51 pm
content: There are currently 3 versions (as far as I know) of the clasic white Eneloops. I have all 3 of them, none failed, even capacity is very near to initial one.Charged/discharged with Maha MH-C9000.All used succesfully with Canon flashes, 420EX and 580EX, last one has GN58, so very powerfull.About the Ansmann charger: I cannot understand why it's expensive.Take a Maha MH-C9000 and you will see endless choices: charge current is selectable in 100mA increments from 200 to 2000mA for each cell, discharge from 100 to 1000mA also in 100mA increments, refresh and many other goodies. Unfortunatelly only 4 slots.The chargers used in model racing: even more features, but prices 10 to 50 times more than MH-C9000. But ... USB connections to computer to log data, internal storage for each battery so you can see the trend, and many more features.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 06:44:56 pm
content: I have turn down anything that comes from the Maha channel.They do not create technology, they just buy and sell .Everything that comes from Maha , gets sold by other 10 generic brand names.I have make one in-depth research about this subject,but I do not care to backup my opinion again,every one gets what ever he thinks as best.Quote from: ipman on July 12, 2011, 05:07:51 pmThe large battery stations have an extra function called as refreshing,this must be their own technology, I can only imagine that is something with pulses and reversed pulses.Makes the battery chemistry active , fights back any memory effect.This is probably why they cost so much.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 07:00:45 pm
content: Give me one example of a rebranded MH-C9000. Because I don't know the existence of a charger with similar capabilities.The only chargers that are as close as possible are LaCrosse BC700 and 900, but they are not identical.And BTW, the MH-C9000 also uses pulse charging in normal charging mode, and has a "break-in" option that they claim to revive dead cells.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2011, 07:23:08 pm
content: Before some months I had even a collection of pictures with burned maha chargers,but I do not have it any more.About searching, Google is your friend, It needs hours or days to spot those full of tears stories,but they are interesting.By the way I had never see an dead Ansmann,well actually I did and buy it, it was the Energy 8,got it from Germany for 20EUR shipped, and I repair it,it had blown the input 220V ( due an over-voltage in the German Mains )Never found an second one.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2011, 08:25:56 am
content: Kiriakos, when I say I did not find any clone of the MH-C9000 that means I've searched allready, but did not had any sucess.Most of the stories are because of the user ignorance, they don't know anything about charging, they throw a random or default charge current and then they complain. I know that. But we who are talking here, are supposed to know at least charging basics.Also, it's not fair to compare that Ansmann model with Maha. I bet Maha sold many times more devices that Ansmann, so it's normal to find more information - good, bad, evil or anything else.I have a MH-C9000 for more than 3 years now. Never had any issue, not even minor ones. I know some other friends who use them, also never had problems at all.Still, I've read about somebody trying to charge cells with very high impedance with MH-C9000 and the charger shown bad. He put the cells in a plain trickle charger, they were overheating as hell, but they charged eventually. His conclusion? Maha is worst and more expensive than this plain cheap charger. It's not the single complaints ... it's enough to read "between the lines" and refine the tehnical truth.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2011, 11:05:42 am
content: I have one last word to say about Ansmann,I have one large difficulty to brag about them,for the simplest reason " That they do no do an aggressive marketing push" for their products out side of Germany.It Looks like that they are happy to have just the German market as customer, and to not care for the rest.Even me I had to fresh-up my rusty German (Third language) , so to snick in the German Ebayand locate the Ansmann products.I did almost the same so to locate Chauvin Arnoux products, I had to invade in France ( Ebay) LOL

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2011, 12:07:35 pm
content: I have nothing to complain about Ansmann.I said what I said because we are tehnical persons and should compare relevant data and capabilities, not random ones.Here, a DIY chain called Hornbach brings them to our market. There is no problem getting most of their products also, but they did not produce outstanding devices, from a tehnical point of view, to justify their aquisition at higher prices than Maha/Powerex. They are not bad, but they lack a lot of features found in Maha/Powerex top-of-the-line charger.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2011, 08:13:50 pm
content: Amazes me we all missed this video posted in the relative childhood of the EEVBlog:A Varta battery charger that does 15minutes charging of 2100mAh cells. That's a whopping 8A charging rate. Kaboom!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2011, 08:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: hans on July 13, 2011, 08:13:50 pmLOL ... this is the total for four Cells.If we redo the math about the Ansmann we have 17.6Afor four cells =True Kaboom.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 05:52:17 am
content: Not really that much.Those charger uses pulse charging, and in Maha's case, it applies pulses of about 2 amps to each one of the cells, but one at a time, not all at once. So we have 4 cells charging at 2 amps each, but the power supply is giving us only 2 amps at a time.Take a look at the power consumption and you will see a much lower value than 17.6A.@Kiriakos: please show me where you found that Maha clone and complaints. I am very interested.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 01:02:17 pm
content: Quote from: ipman on July 14, 2011, 05:52:17 amNo I will not, plus I do not have the links.I spent over two months searching and translating text, so to make my mind if it really worth's even to import this High tech Maha junk.And I did it because I am crazy about quality + poor, and so every dollar does count. ( No room for experiments)And so I could not hand over one such research to any one.Even so you can start from that, and move on by your self.http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?172952-Electrolytic-in-Maha-charger-exploded

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 05:21:10 pm
content: I've researched about charging batteries for years.About that Maha: filter information. An exploded cap is nothing unusual these days! I change a lot of them because of increased ESR and lost capacity. It's just another thrifty manufacturer saving 0.1 cents each cap. Anyway, it was user error because he used the charger outside specs!But if you want to keep the information for yourself, be it. But next time when you are claiming anything here, please tell us the reason, backed by information, otherwise this discution is useless to others.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2011, 10:00:20 pm
content: I am not so young, so to need to back up my knowledge that comes from my personal experience with web links,so to get the what ever credibility.This thread is an presentation about Ansmann who got wild.If you need to learn more by the help of the others about the Maha chargers,feel free to open your own thread, and any one who is willing to assist you,he will pop in.Simple as that.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 05:41:20 am
content: Kiriakos, my friend. I don't need more info about Maha chargers, I studied for years.If I say I cannot find a clone of MH-C9000 and you say you did find one, show me. That's the only way to convince me, because I cannot show you I did NOT find a clone! Get real!And you post a problem related to another charger, used outside specs by an untrained and ignorant person and tell me because of that all chargers made by Maha suck? Common ... the persons which gather around here have at least basic knowledge about electronics.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 07:18:11 am
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on July 11, 2011, 09:53:40 pmand another one... every batteries are mortal!Quote from: Kibi on July 12, 2011, 09:30:45 amnot a very good way to test rechargable. my method inLongevity of NiMH cellsis the "proven self experienced" (but no record/proof) on how to fail rechargables. but my experience with LSD is new, ie only Maha Imedion tested, 1 dead out of 8 cells bought ~2 years ago. now i just bought Eneloop ready to be tested. in my quest for immortal battery, your "GP ReCyko" can be a good collection in my test. do you care to tell me the exact battery model?to all, in the linked thread you can as well see how the maha charger was tested. feel free to post on how to "ideally" charge a NiMH battery,technically(ie not socially), and tell me why my 8 cells mh-c801d (>2years old) is not ideal enough as a charger. enter the poll/thread if you really have the ball! cheers

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 10:38:40 am
content: Let me describe the ideal charger:-independent channels for each cell-charge termination methods: minus delta V and termal, timer cut-off user-programable-cells spaced enough to ensure good ventilation-charging current programable with 1mA resolution-cutoff based on voltage measurement with at leas 3 decimals, ideally 4 or more-pulse-based charging, some say even negative pulse charging-power supply independent from main body, to reduce heat dissiapation-very thick leads to cellsOthers, feel free to add features tot that list.MH-C801D is not idea because: it does not allow you to select charging rates as fine as required (at most 100mA resolution). It does not have a programable timer. Cells are quite crowded.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 02:35:04 pm
content: Quote from: ipman on July 15, 2011, 10:38:40 amok good points there, the others ore classic spec. i still feel the batteries got too hot when complete charging, maybe another reason for "premature death" of batteries. i'll kiv the C9000.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2011, 03:37:39 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on July 15, 2011, 07:18:11 amI love your humor... but the batteries are not that sensitive as you can probably think.They are wild animals LOL .The NiMH chargers are 20 years old technology, only for the batteries there is some room for improvements,and due the fact that we have specific ranges in their capacity, there is no need for endless increments of the charging current.The only excuse for having all those increments, are to own worthless dead cheap batteries, that you do not trust to charge them at the named specs.Many old NiMH batteries that was made with low capacity, they are not here, they had become dust.The AAA rechargeable have gain a tiny market segment, I use AAA only at my small Office desk LED light,at the remote control of my Scorpio moto alarm, and today on my Agilent U1272A.About AA, their capacity starts today from 2100mAh to 2850mAh and that's it.There is no need for fancy chargers , but for healthy chargers.And if you worry about temperature, it costs you nothing to add one small fan on your charger.Especially if you live in hot climates.Every NiMH it should retain 1.34V - 1.38V max as soon it removed from the charger and after of two hours cooling down period.If you get higher voltage, the charger is damaged and overcharges the batteries.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 05:58:59 am
content: Quote from: ipman on July 15, 2011, 10:38:40 amI am inclined to think people will crank this up to it's maximum charging rate. They crank up the air conditioner's temperature and think they can control the A/C accurately with the flow speed. On rainy days it cools so much they turn it off. SO annoying. They think if I turn it 5 degrees to the other side it starts heating everything or wastes the same amount of fuel or something... Well, that's just here in DR.100mAh adjustment is more realistic, since most batteries are rated like this and 50mAh of difference is not a big deal. I don't see why a battery charger needs a programmable timer. Just have sense the temperature and if things get hot, just stop charging the battery. The voltage cuttoff is not likely to be precise on cheaper products. It can all be implemented in an ASIC, although I don't know about designing IC's.Multichemistry with automatic detection would be awesome, although I have no idea if that is even possible. Alkaline charging can be handy, but not recommended. Also, it will cause confusion.

author: ipman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2011, 07:32:52 am
content: The timer was added there not as requirement, but as a "nice to have feature".Sure, some chargers have thermal protection, but they don't react allways, or the threshold is not user-programmable. In this case the timer cames handy.Multichemistry auto-detection is a bit tricky. Along with dangers associated with Lithium-something batteries which can burn or explode, it' even dangerous.