Abandoned E Waste Factory  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: System Error Message
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:23:02 am
content: if you could get the place for free what would you do with it?

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:30:40 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on June 18, 2016, 09:23:02 amStart an e waste recycling facility.

author: doobedoobedo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:43:24 am
content: Quote from: System Error Message on June 18, 2016, 09:23:02 amQuote from: XOIIO on June 18, 2016, 09:30:40 amAbandon it.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:44:20 am
content: Wow. Start at 15:15 for the main carnage

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:21:13 am
content: Bet half of those sets and monitors there are still functional, just obsolete or upgraded.My place I would spend a yesr simply stripping out copper from yokes and steel to scrap, along with the crushing of all those cases to smaller pieces and fill a few containers to go to China as scrap electronics.Though here this place would already be a small community of houses, filled with people and there would be no metal lying around.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 11:26:46 am
content: It always amazes me that in the US stuff like this can be left behind to rot for eternity even though it is toxic waste. Just walk away and nobody will ever bother you about it.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 05:29:46 pm
content: QuoteThis is not limited to the US, it's pretty much a world wide issue.For russian stuff see:http://englishrussia.com/2015/01/05/abandoned-factory-of-epichlorohydrin/http://englishrussia.com/category/russian-abandoned-2/

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 06:09:13 pm
content: HiA few observations:I've seen buildings like that abandoned all over the world. In some cases they stay abandoned in the middle of fairly major urban areas for many decades. I always wonder what the story was. Here is my guess on this building:At one time it was indeed a functioning factory. There is simply to much finished space for it to have never been used. It appears to have been in operation for quite a while. At some point the factory gear all was very carefully packed up and shipped off somewhere else. The is no real sign of it anywhere in the video. It took real effort to get it all out of there. That suggests to me that production moved to another location.Once the production stuff left, they had all of the office "stuff" left behind. It's rare that shipping partitions and desks makes much sense. Most of it is gone or carefully stacked. That suggests they auctioned off what was left. What didn't sell or didn't get picked up is what is still in stacks. The building then went to a broker who apparently could not sell the property. It was rented out to the recycling operation. That outfit went belly up when the price of copper tanked.Why not turn it into homes?To do so, first you need to clear out the factory. There is empty land all around the site. It's probably available for less than the factory property. Why? There are back taxes and the like owed on the factory property. The guy who owns the empty land has paid his taxes ...Yes it's a crazy world.Bob

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 07:00:50 pm
content: Seeing the wood case TVs kinda made me sad, those are practically antiques at this point, if I had one I'd keep it just for the sake of it being a cool relic. But reality is even if some of that stuff still works it's just so obsolete. So many CRTs. I remember when those were worth a lot of money. There's got to be a better way to deal with this stuff though, could one not melt down circuit boards and get all the metals out, then grind up the board itself to use to make new ones or something? The plastic and metal casings of all that stuff could probably be recycled too, or do the different blends of plastic and other product make stuff like that hard to recycle? Could get the lead and glass out of CRTs as well. I guess the issue is nobody is willing to go through the trouble, and the regulations involved would probably make it too expensive.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 07:12:57 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2016, 07:00:50 pmHiIf you want a TV just like the ones in the pictures, I know of three that are available in Northern Indiana right now. They are in much better shape than the ones in the video (stored indoors) and are available for free. They go to the dump on Tuesday.Turning the plastics back into raw materials - not so much. Plastics chemistry does not work quite that way. Separating out the metals, yes that works. They are worth the same "ten cents to a dollar a pound" sort of number as any other form of scrap once fully separated. Scrap glass is so abundant on the secondary market these days (think bottle recycling) that it has negative value. You pay to have it used since there is a much greater supply than demand.So, when should we expect you to haul away the TV'sBob

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 07:26:56 pm
content: The world is pretty much fked up. We produce too much of everything, cars, TVs, dishwashers... using raw materials. When these things get old its not viable in time/effort/money to be recovered or reused. I know some stuff gets recycled but not enough. And Im not even mentioning pollution and chemicals going into the food chain, just natural depletion of resources.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 07:38:55 pm
content: Quote from: MasterTech on June 18, 2016, 07:26:56 pmHiThe biggest thing some of this is not rational in terms of is CARBON. If you use *way* more to recycle (say) glass than to make it from sand, it is very unsound to do so. Indeed that is exactly what we are paying people to do. It is fun to say "recycle everything" right up to the point you look at the nasty details.Bob

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:16:09 pm
content: There's plenty of valuable raw materials in every CRT, extracting them is a problem but in a mechanical and labor sense rather than in an energy balance sense. AI and robotics can change the balance (third world labor and environmental standards too).Ton of valuable scrap there as it stands though.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:23:18 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 18, 2016, 08:16:09 pmHiThe carbon issue comes in very big time when I have to ship that scrap half way around the world to hook it up with third world labor and environmental standards. Some day when the clean up occurs due to those standards (and it will) there is a major energy cost there as well. Shipping glass, wood, and sheet steel half way around the world ... not so much. That's what makes up the main bulk of those TV's.Bob

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:24:47 pm
content: Well there's always the option of having third world standards at home, who knows what the future holds.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 08:43:43 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on June 18, 2016, 08:24:47 pmHiIn the case of our area ... we had those standards not all that long ago. That's where the comment about the cleanup issues comes from. What does it take to dig up an entire river bed and dispose of (or most likely incinerate) a meter of bottom muck? Don't even begin to try to work that one out. If you don't dig, you have issues for a *long* time. If you do dig... yikes !!!Bob

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:09:01 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 18, 2016, 07:12:57 pmHaha I would not necessarily WANT one of those, but if I had one, I'd keep it around, can just imagine how much it would cost to ship something like that.And yeah I kind of suspected that plastics would be hard to recycle. Perhaps it's time for some standards in manufacturing to ensure that plastics used CAN be recycled more easily. Like use simple plastics and not special blends and stuff. I guess it can still be grinded up and used for something maybe?

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2016, 09:09:01 pmHiHow do you make a no-lead compatible PC board out of a plastic that is easily recycled. For that matter how do you make a fire proof TV out of the same sort of stuff? There are limits to what you can do.Bob

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:33:06 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2016, 11:26:46 amIt's not legal to abandon it in the US either. Do you think that people never break the law in your country?Anyway, a pile of TVs may be "toxic waste", but it's not really toxic. It won't do any harm just sitting there.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 09:38:04 pm
content: I have a sneaking suspicion that old dumps may be the 'mines' of the future, wood and glass no, but plastics, metals esp rare elements, yes. Quite a few technical challenges but return on cubic yard mined and location close to town could make it very attractive.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 10:00:11 pm
content: Maybe after we mined all the easy stuff the next civilization will see crtite, laptite and phonium as its ores.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 11:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on June 18, 2016, 09:33:06 pmYeah but that is just limited to dumping chemicals from an XTC lab which is then cleaned up quickly using tax payer's money.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 18, 2016, 11:18:42 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2016, 11:14:43 pmHiOk so here's the bet:I pick a list of major European cities. You pick one and fly me over. We go for a drive. If we don't find any abandoned buildings, I'll pay for the trip. I'll even allow the add on of a "must have trash in them" requirement.Deal?(Yes, since I've already been to all the cities on the list, I know what the outcome will be).Bob

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 05:28:28 am
content: Very typical abandoned factory. I've seen many myself, and see many more in photos from my friends.Here's my history of the building, from what I see:It was once a functioning factory, or possibly trucking distribution warehouse. The business moved out or went bankrupt. Likely the former, since bankruptcy would have left more original debris. It might have been used for several different things in its working life, some of which needed a lot of office space. (This is what makes me think 'trucking company.)It's interesting that in the front foyer, someone was putting up a newly plastered wall at the time the place went belly up. It was seam-sealed and sanded back, but never painted.The final user was a pretense at a 'recycling company', but I see zero evidence of any disassembly and processing ever occurring. Only some areas that have been used by vandals for smashing fun. So the 'business' probably involved being paid to cart e-waste away, but they never intended to do anything but warehouse it then walk off with the money. I know of another place like that (down past Wollongong), which is full of hundreds of old truck tires and probably millions of worn brake shoes from trains. Just an old warehouse in the bush, at an abandoned coal mine. Seems to be a common business model.Finally (or possibly before the 'recycling company' operation), the standard disaccomodation crew has been through. This happens to *every* old building, in such a standard fashion that I think it must be due to some universal official government policy. Old buildings are not allowed to be left in a habitable condition for squatters. So there's a standard procedure, involving pulling down all internal ceiling tiles, smashing all glass, doors, etc. Usually the toilets too, though here they are intact. Also the copper strippers take all the wiring and water pipes. Maybe this place just got hit by copper strippers, as I saw plenty of intact glass.Most people don't realize how commonly this end-state occurs. So many... with the worldwide industrial economy declining for decades and now going into rapid implosion mode... Not just small stuff either, but major steel smelters, oil refineries, chemical plants, aluminium and copper smelters, power stations, hydroelectric plants, coking plants, too many mines to count, fabric weavers, general engineering plants, shipbuilding dockyards, manufacturing facilities of all kinds. With virtually never anything of that scale being built to replace it. Australia and America are being rapidly de-industrialized.The big question is will it ALL end up like this?Just an hour ago I was looking at pics from a friend of an abandoned casting foundry, in Sydney. Will probably go look next week.

author: radar_macgyver
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 05:32:13 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 19, 2016, 05:28:28 amDidn't Dave do a video of an abandoned Sydney "factory" on April 1 of this year?

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 08:04:46 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 18, 2016, 11:14:43 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_of_death_(Italy)http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/europes-largest-illegal-toxic-dumping-site-discovered-in-southern-italy-an-area-with-cancer-rates-80-10327157.htmlItaly is a member of the EU, isn't it?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 08:21:16 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2016, 09:09:01 pmIt can be pretty cheap, provided you can pack it up and crate it, then take to either a truck depot or airport ( though there the interior will need removing or at least the CRT) and send it as low priority cargo to the nearest handling facility to you. Might take a week or three to make it there as deadhead cargo or low priority airfreight, but it will arrive.The reason couriers exist is because small parcels are a pain to collate into a load to a destination and people are loath to drive to pick a small parcel up.Biggest thing I sent airfreight was a washing machine, but I worked on the base, and knew all the people there so it was simple to just wrap it up and address it to my new base and collect it 2 weeks later when it flew in.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 08:39:28 am
content: entropy increases

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 10:25:54 am
content: Quote from: Karel on June 19, 2016, 08:04:46 amthat part of italy is.. different

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 11:33:52 am
content: Interesting to see such place completely abandoned with so much raw materials lingering around. If this was in an urban area the wiring, breakers, equipment would have been "repurposed" a long time ago - not to mention the CRTs would have been piled up and turned into a target practice range.Recycling is not easy. I remember a few years ago the video below being released.http://www.94elements.com/elements/29/

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 01:00:28 pm
content: It's possible the plan was to stockpile this mess, until there was enough to fill a few shipping containers, then ship the mess overseas to the third world.Was a few years ago when the US government had a huge crackdown on companies doing this, would be around the time this was operating.Though I think TerraHertz's post is more accurate, eg this was a scam.The completely empty office space is suspect, I think they never moved into them. Hence it was only a warehouse.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 03:03:51 pm
content: Wow that's just depressing.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 03:29:14 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on June 19, 2016, 01:00:28 pmHiKeep in mind that the term "abandoned" is used loosely in the video. The more accurate term might be "nobody is watching it". There may indeed be legal proceedings going on to decide what happens next. Towards the end of the video you get a nice shot of a bankruptcy lawyer's signage .... I'd bet there is a connection. There also may be some interesting things in the soil under the site that are the real issue. Who knows what they did there or how careful they were.One other detail that is likely involved:A lot of plants went in over the years with all sorts of local government "assistance" tossed in. With that cash flowing into the operation, it was at least marginally viable. Once that deal ran out, the place was loosing money. It then shut down. You are left with a plant in the middle of nowhere that never should have been built in the first place. In some localities the thing hangs around forever and ever. The e-waste thing probably was part of a fantasy "we can re-purpose the site" idea. Here where I live, they get torn down and you have an empty lot instead. That takes longer and costs more than you might think. I'd bet tearing that plant down properly will cost > $5M. There is Federal money available to cover *part* of the costs. Once the empty lot stage is reached, you can have a more rational discussion about what to do next.Bob

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 03:34:00 pm
content: QuoteSo , we have a Flix town where had chemicals and pharmaceuticals factory(ERCROS) which had thrown tons toxic waste(Cadmium,Mercury,Uranium, organochlorine as PCB and DDT) to Ebro river since XIX century until the 90s decade.Since 2003 the Spanish government have been clearing the dam Flix's,nowadays have been retired a 70 tn toxic mugs and it still remains a few tons on the factory and surroundings .Furthermore , there are people(authorized by the regional government ) that fish bullheads in these zones of Ebro and after they sell the fish to Romania.http://elpais.com/diario/2009/11/12/catalunya/1257991638_850215.html

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 04:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: station240 on June 19, 2016, 01:00:28 pmHiIf you look at all of the incidental signs on the wall, and the way the place is laid out ... it was a real factory at one time. Somebody very carefully pulled the stuff out of the offices. You can see the stack of office furniture in one of the shots. I've seen a number of places shut down and auctioned off. The intended result is a "broom clean" facility once the people move out. They were mighty close to that at one point. The e-waste guys then moved in and they very much just abandoned things. They likely were renting the place, so who knows what the next step might be.Bob

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 04:49:52 pm
content: This is the end result of shipping manufacturing to a low cost location. You can't ship buildings or land, so you end up with an unused or underutilized facility. The rents will go extremely low, and someone may rent it. An e-Waste company did, legitimate or not. They either never planned to make a go of it, or found out that the economics weren't there so there wasn't enough left in the till to clean up. While this may not be the story on this particular facility, it is a story told many, many times across the US. This one might be a slight variation. A local businessman built up an operation that the kids and no one else wanted to pick up on, or a local government lured a company in with a tax break that expired and left the operation non-profitable, but the end result is the same.Fairly short life cycle in this case. The basic construction techniques and materials say the original factory was made sometime from early sixties to the mid-seventies. Might have been the result of a move of manufacturing from a high cost northeastern location to "low cost" Tennessee. Then when even lower cost locations became available whoever it was moved on.How to change this? I don't know. One approach would be to change tax laws to reward long term (think decades) returns on investment and penalize shorter term (current timescale is from quarterly to one year) returns. That would hurt rapidly changing technologies like electronics, but then maybe the change rate in electronics is starting to slow down anyway for other reasons.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 07:17:10 pm
content: HiThe real point is that *most* businesses have a lifetime that is about the same as a house pet. If they survive as a stand alone enterprise for several decades they have beat the odds. One that reaches an age that a person would retire at ... not as common as you might think. My qualifier here is "stand alone". Companies that have merged with 27 others in their field and consolidated to a single location don't count as 27 surviving companies. The whole idea of a company that goes on and on providing jobs ... not so much. Without getting into nasty details, 70 years ago there were roughly 400 companies making a certain un-named electronic gizmo in the US. Today there are <6 survivors still in operation. The un-named part is simply to keep the company I work for out of all this.Bob

author: PartialDischarge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 08:21:45 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 19, 2016, 07:17:10 pma flamethower?

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 08:55:30 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 19, 2016, 04:49:52 pmIf some business would be profitable, but isn't because of the tax code, then the tax must be reduced or you will unwittingly destroy your country.Taxes and regulations and rule are often increased for the purpose of moving certain businesses out of certain backyards, once every business of XYZ leaves the country, then after your currency collapses you're left with a deficit of XYZ. (When, not If)if XYZ is farming, well, you get the idea.If XYZ is recycling, then it gets dumped somewhere else.If XYZ is nuclear fuel recycling, then it gets dumped in the Atlantic ocean, or off the coast of Somalia.all very long term things, the next generation may not even pay for the damages your walled garden that taxes and regulations produced.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 09:33:25 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on June 19, 2016, 08:55:30 pmHiI think you are missing the way the deal is done:We (the local / state government) will pay you with public money to set up your factory here. We will pay public money to cover part of the wages of your employees for XX years. We will charge you zero taxes at the local / state level for YY years. We will pay / eliminate / offset part of your federal taxes for ZZ years. On that basis the company is making 8% when it first starts out. Five or ten years later, they are making 3% with all the deals still in place. Each deal times out and the profits drop a little more. At some point they cross break even and move on.It's not so much that taxes are high, it's the fact that tax money is paying to keep the place open right from the first day they start in operation. None of these plant deals happen in areas that are particularly high tax. For that matter, they generally are low wage as well. The next stop in the ever moving factory's journey is inevitably the third world. It is the same process there, it runs for a decade or two and then moves on to yet another country.Bob

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2016, 11:48:47 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 19, 2016, 09:33:25 pmOr maybe it isn't even that clear cut. Perhaps even after all the deals run out the business is still profitable in the sense that there are net earnings after expenses. But some other location wants the jobs, the technology base or whatever and offers up some set of incentives, thus offering up greater profits. It is the fiduciary responsibility of the owners of the company to move to achieve the greater profits. The great benefit of a free market economy is that it efficiently searches out these opportunities. The downside is that it does not have good mechanisms for evaluating external costs and things which take decades or centuries to play out.A player with the persistence to stick to a strategy over very long time periods can even exploit these tendencies offensively. It is possible, but not likely in my opinion, that we are observing such a long term strategy in the world now.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2016, 12:03:57 am
content: HiOne thing we have an abundance of around here are factories headed down hill. I've watched a number of them as they fade away. Given the way production drops and drops ... I doubt they are playing a game. They simply are loosing market share to someplace that can sell the same thing at a lower cost than they can. That is not to say that a "hop hop hop" strategy isn't being used in some industries. If my guess is right about what that factory made .... they were like the same sort of factory around here. We tore down three of them in the last 5 years. I'm guessing we'll tear down another couple of them in the next 10 years or so.I know ... hey... instead of tearing them down, let's turn one into an e-waste recycling center ... it would be cheap to do ... what could go wrongBob

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2016, 09:35:00 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on June 19, 2016, 07:17:10 pmThanks for pointing this out. I hadn't realized until your comment how rare long lived companies are. When I thought about it I realized that the only companies that I knew lasting longer than four decades at one location were power companies, refineries and breweries. With a little license concerning ripping the insides out and replacing with a new factory you could add parts of the auto industry. I will also add that I am aware of a few very long lived British companies in specialized markets. Usually something to do with a King's Charter.I am not sure I understand why this short livedness is so prevalent, and whether it is a good or a bad thing. More thought required.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2016, 09:53:41 pm
content: Quote from: CatalinaWOW on June 20, 2016, 09:35:00 pmHiThe thing about the Kings Charter .... how many were given out? How many are actually the same outfit vs somebody who bought the name?Back when I lived in Connecticut a couple kids didn't show up for school on certain days. Same kids / same days each year. You would ask why and the answer was "special rules". Turns out there were still a few people who, by right of continuous occupation by the same family, had certain rights as granted in a charter. They were issued by King Charles II back in the 1660's. Can't interfere with their right to go hunting / fishing out of season when the King guaranteed it. There are always a few legitimate survivors.Bob

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 12:47:07 am
content: Same thing happens in current times. I was once employed by a firm which was the result of many consolidations in the industry. One employee was a total goofoff and irritating to boot. He crossed the paths of an alpha type manager who informed him he was fired on the spot. The employees response was "You can't fire me." The alpha manager responded "We'll see about that" and immediately phoned security and HR to have the matter dealt with. A few days later the alpha manager encountered the employee at his desk, blew his top and stormed off to HR to deal with the matter. It turns out the employee was right. He was the scion of the owner of one of the companies merged into the current entity. And one of the line items in the merger agreement was lifetime employment for this individual. Fortunately it did not extend to his heirs and assigns.

author: batteksystem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 01:20:55 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on June 18, 2016, 10:21:13 amJust be warned that typical CRT has leaded glass inside, I will do all the pre-caution I can take to prevent inhale dust particles containing lead.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 01:24:26 am
content: Quote from: batteksystem on June 21, 2016, 01:20:55 amIf you are inhaling glass dust you have bigger problems than lead poisoning.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 09:07:27 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on June 21, 2016, 01:24:26 amthe lead is on the outside of the glass, its not leaded glass but lead coated glass.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 09:20:39 pm
content: What's all this leaded glass stuff. You put lead into glass to change it's optical properties you don't coat glass with lead. CRTs have an aluminium backing on the inside and a steel shadow mask sitting behind the aluminium phosphor coated backing. I would more worried about breathing in glass particles, that will kill you slowly and it doesn't matter what's in the glass, it's the tiny particles of glass in your lungs.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2016, 10:31:24 pm
content: Quite right, the glass is doped with lead just like a good port decanter. It is not a paint or anything like that. In addition to increasing the refractive index (the optical properties you mentioned), this shields the user from some X-rays.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 12:46:04 am
content: Quote from: johansen on June 21, 2016, 09:07:27 pmAre you sure you aren't thinking of the graphite coating which conduction the high voltage connection? That is similar to the "lead" in pencils, but has nothing to do with the metal Pb. As others have said the faceplate is often, perhaps always a leaded glass, meaning that there is lead as an impurity in the glass to provide X-ray shielding. That is the metal Pb, but is almost impossible to receive any health damaging effects from. Perhaps if you soaked the faceplate in a mild acid bath acid bath (something like vinegar or lemon juice) for weeks and then drank the acid. Or used the faceplate as a serving dish for acidic foods for a few years.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 01:16:40 am
content: Quote from: johansen on June 21, 2016, 09:07:27 pmNo, the glass faceplate of most CRTs is actually leaded glass. In the tubes where the face is bonded to the separately moulded tube body, only the face is made of leaded glass. As others have pointed out, the lead is added to increase the X-ray shielding. Origin of the X-rays is where the electrons plow into the back of the CRT face, releasing some of their kinetic energy as X-rays. And since the person using the CRT tends to be closest to the CRT face, that's where shielding is most needed.Actually, the greatest health risk from broken CRTs isn't the X-rays or the lead, but the rare earths used in the phosphors and the cathode surface coating. Those are really, really nasty. Same with the phosphors used in fluorescent tubes. Far worse than the tiny amount of mercury vapor in fluoro tubes. But there's no public scare campaign about the phosphors, only simple things like mercury and lead, So you never hear anything about the phosphors.Google for images of people's wounds who trod on or cut themselves on broken fluoro tubes of any kind, and got some of the phosphor powder in the cuts.Or better, don't.Just remember that. Don't get CRT/fluoro phosphor powder in cuts, or breathe any. Absolutely don't.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 01:52:57 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 22, 2016, 01:16:40 amConcur. Twice, or as many times as it takes.

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 05:53:03 am
content: i seem to recall scraping the lead off the glass and it was metallic.. and i don't believe that was graphite.. i know the difference today of course but can't recall exactly, that was 20 years ago.anyhow, i hope its all graphite.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 05:59:04 am
content: Quote from: johansen on June 22, 2016, 05:53:03 amThe phosphors were coated on the back of the glass, and then a thin metallic layer was vacuum deposited over the phosphors. This made the whole face a really good anode, and it reflected the light heading backwards from the phosphor, enhancing the brightness and contrast of the picture. This coating was not lead.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 06:13:40 am
content: I'm glad you guy's mentioned the phosphors they are quite nasty and there probably aren't that many plants equiped to safely recycle old CRTs.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2016, 10:32:02 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on June 22, 2016, 01:16:40 amWhat you said is precisely what I learned when I was a kid: never breathe around or manipulate a broken fluorescent.Perhaps it is a modern tendency to compartmentalize everything in simpler buckets of information: mercury is BAD! Lead is BAD! Asbestos is BAD! But then too many other important things are drowned under these simple messages - people can't memorize what is good and bad out of 100+ elements...

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2016, 10:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on June 22, 2016, 10:32:02 amIndeed, its the phosphor thats the major hazard. Even a few ppm I think is enough to really harm you if you breath it.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 07:10:17 am
content: Pneumosilicosis, 15 letters. Not a good way to die, drowning in your own blood plasma.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 07:28:41 pm
content: Same stuff, same end just the more polysyllabic one is a dust that will make it through most respirators with ease. It is so fine, but has microscopic sharp edges and thus does the same damage.Going out tethered to a cylinder of oxygen or a gas concentrator is not nice.