Hakko Vs. Weller - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 09:38:10 pm
content: I was looking at soldering stations and was curious what people prefer

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 09:47:33 pm
content: I have an Ersa i-Con nano which I'm happy with so far but I've never tried a Hakko or a Weller so I can't really give a comparative view.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 09:51:10 pm
content: My Weller WES51 has been chugging along for eons without a hiccup, absolutely love it.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 10:08:36 pm
content: These days, my first choice would be JBC.Next, would be Hakko.Though I currently use a Weller WD1, I wouldn't recommend their products due to a slew of QC issues with their more recent product lines. Cost is another issue, as just a replacement iron for mine is more than an entire FX-888. The same funds would get both an iron + stand for JBC (or an iron + 2x tips).

author: bombledmonk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 10:12:35 pm
content: Easy Braid . I love this station. It's designed by a few former Metcal engineers and uses the self-regulating curie tips. 'Legend' goes that it was made when the Metcal patents ran out and there were some points that were improved over the Metcal version. It's also sold under a few other names, but I'm not sure which ones are the knock-offs of this knock-off and which ones are the real deal. May be a bit out of the price comparison that you're looking at.http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/soldering-desoldering-rework-products/soldering-stations/1310841?k=ez%20braid

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 10:24:58 pm
content: First choice would be JBC but the getup I want is about a grand in Canada.I know some people hate single temperature tips but I do like my used Metcal, excellent performance/cost.If I need temperature control, I can turn to my Hakko 936.

author: mikgntl-2013
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 11:11:52 pm
content: My vote for JBC stations. They are simply outstanding!Since you are looking for a new station, you could consider the CD2BB kit in the buy/sell section.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 11:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: megahz on April 01, 2013, 09:38:10 pmusually people work with only one high-end soldering station, so it's difficult to prefer one or other...But...Jbc is the top of the topWeller are ruggedHakko are cuteFor my bench i will go for hakko, for a production chain with weller.If time lost cost you a lot of bucks i'll go for jbc

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2013, 11:59:57 pm
content: JBC is pretty expensive though, im in around the 150$ range

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 12:33:37 am
content: Oh so only weller-hakko?Ok, hakko win.Cheaper, nicer, more confortable and cute.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 01:11:38 am
content: Quote from: megahz on April 01, 2013, 11:59:57 pmGiven your budget, go for the Hakko FX-888/D between that and say a Weller WES51/D.Or add more to your budget and get a JBC.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 01:13:43 am
content: hmm, I think Hakko is a bit better because the heating element seems like it's better quality, I have had an X-Tronic Soldering iron, and I loved it moslty because it used Hakko heating element and got hot very quickly.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 07:25:37 am
content: Any brand mention above which is easily available to you, no point sticking to a brand when you have to wait two weeks for replacement parts.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 08:14:45 am
content: very hot quick? depends, the wmrp pencil on the weller side takes 3-4 second to hit 350 celsius from room temp, jbc is around the same time, metcals dunno but its fast too. pick it out any of these from the stand in time you move to the board its already on working temp

author: ben_r_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 07:56:08 pm
content: Been using Hakko for years and have always liked them over Weller. Just seem better designed and at the time Weller's were over priced. But my primary iron is a Metcal.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 08:50:46 pm
content: I've never tried a metcal iron

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 09:05:26 pm
content: Yes, Hakko is cheaper than Weller. It's better for hobby (or profi) use.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 09:08:43 pm
content: Well, I might just go for something cheap now like 80$, so the Hakko FX888D or the analog Weller station, I am in High School and want to go to Drexel for Electrical Engineering or Electro Mechanical Engineering so I probably wont need a JBC or Metcal just yet

author: plesa
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
content: I can highly recomend the Pace. Mostly their TD100 handpiece.I tried the JBL and older Weller's, but Pace is my winner.The JBL has on the handpiece the metal ring which became hot after while.The main benefit of the TD100 for me is the short distance between tip and hand.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2013, 12:43:53 am
content: I needed hot air too, so I think I am going to buy the X-Tronic 9020, it looks pretty good, with hot air and fume extractor, I had one of the older X-Tronic models before and they have great costumer service so I think I might go with the xtronic

author: tvtechny
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 03, 2013, 05:40:40 pm
content: This is my baby.http://www.shopjimmy.com/hakko-fx888d-23by-digital-soldering-station.htmcheap, heats up fast, and reliable.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2013, 11:02:52 pm
content: I just got the X-Tronic 9020, and I love it, the soldering iron is an exact copy of Hakko, in fact the extra heating element that came with it was a Hakko. I don't know about the Hot air though, I have never had an electronics hot air gun before, only the ones that are not for electronics. Costumer service is great, during shipping one of the Hot air nozzles were damaged so I sent them an email and they replied in 1 hour!! That's record time, and they are sending me a replacement for free! I love this station so far, even though its pretty big, and if you want to buy it here is the link (I am not associated with X-Tronic, I just rly love the station)http://www.amazon.com/X-TRONIC-9020-XTS-SOLDERING-STATION-EXTRACTOR/dp/B00A2VQA24/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365116555&sr=8-1&keywords=xtronic+9020

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 12:09:37 am
content: The soldering iron I am going to vote for is one of the worse soldering irons ever, but also one of the most fun.When I was at school, one of the popular soldering irons was the Scope irons, and amazingly, it still seems to be available today.The original "SuperScope" soldering iron was 150W and then they brought out the "precision" 70W model.They had temperature control - your finger. When you pushed a ring or level on the smaller iron, it pushed a carbon electrode onto the unplated copper tip. The other end was connected to a 3.3volt 50A transformer. Instant heat! If you held the finger down too long, the tip started glowing red, and since it was an unplated copper tip, you had to keep plenty of spare tips and electrodes.You had to learn by feel when the temperature was about right, and admittedly there were lots of wrecked phenolic PCBs along the way. Why it was fun is you instantly had so much heat available. Soldering to groundplanes, to bare metal - it was just so easy. You did get good at keeping the temperature about right with practice and it was far superior to any of the unregulated mains powered alternatives of the time.Other then the feeling of pure power, it was fun as the 3.3V transformer was pretty indestructible, and I had a great time seeing what 3.3V @ 50A could do to bits of wire and anything else at hand.If anyone is crazy, here is the link to buy this 50 year old marvel of Ozzy technology. Must be a really great design to last that long!http://www.ozautoelectrics.com/scope.htmlMy major disappointment is that the original Ferguson transformer has now been replaced with a wimpy-looking plastic encased job.Richard.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 12:25:56 am
content: Quote from: amspire on April 05, 2013, 12:09:37 amGiven the alligator clips on the top pic, I wonder how many would have been mistakenly connected to a car battery.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 02:05:28 am
content: lolz (I think you are referring to the car battery post)

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 04:22:53 am
content: Quote from: megahz on April 05, 2013, 02:05:28 aming this is an autoelectrics store. They were advertising it as usable from a car battery. Seeing that the tip reaches operating temperature in 5 seconds from 3.3V, I would estimate is reaches temperature in about a third of a second from a car battery.My guess is that the autroelectricians are using it to solder 60A copper cables, and are very happy with the excess power.

author: vzoole
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2013, 08:18:56 pm
content: Sooo... which is my favorite solder iron?I like all of them!Irons are everywhere on my bench

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 02:30:34 am
content: Quote from: vzoole on April 05, 2013, 08:18:56 pmNice collection

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 03:22:25 am
content: Quote from: cwalex on April 06, 2013, 02:30:34 am+1

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 09:03:30 am
content: Quote from: megahz on April 01, 2013, 11:59:57 pmAnd even then you keep buying new tips. The best (longest lasting) tips I have seen in the past 20 years are the ones from Ersa. Compared to Ersa the tips from JBC and Weller are just crap. Another thing to look for in a good soldering station is how easy it is the change the tip. With today's SMD components you can't solder a circuit with just one tip.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 11:10:36 am
content: You really want multiple irons so you can avoid changing tips.2 is ok but 3 is best.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 01:09:23 pm
content: Changing tips on an Ersa iron is done in seconds.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 02:48:34 pm
content: JBC are great for little stuff but I find they struggle for bigger stuff. Tips are very expensive but very quick to change.I've not used Pace or Ersa in a while and rarely see them second hand. Were good when I last used them but beyond that I've little experience, though understand tips are as expensive, or possibly more so than JBCI do like Metcal, have a pair on each of my workbenchs and a large collection of bits that will cover everything from the smallest I can work with under a decent microscope to soldering copper sheets together. Tips are very easy to change.Once upon a time, perhaps 25 years ago, if you went into a proffessional electronic workplace in the UK then Weller was everywhere. They never did bring out anything that was very good with little surface mount stuff. Tips are cheap, readily available second hand but a bit of a faff to change.

author: Dataforensics
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 02:52:30 pm
content: I have used Weller TCP irons since starting work in 1980, and up until recently very satisfied. However the bits used to last for many months even with irons left on.With the bits I have bought recently the coating seems to fail very quickly, one in less than a month. Its not the solder either as I still have stocks of the older leaded stuff.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 05:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: Dataforensics on April 06, 2013, 02:52:30 pmYou might want to give Plato tips a try.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 08:19:25 pm
content: Quote from: Dataforensics on April 06, 2013, 02:52:30 pmYou find many months an acceptable lifetime for a tip? I expect a tip to last for years even when used daily!

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 08:55:13 pm
content: it depend a lot from the solder you use.the solder i use for repair old instrument, for example, is a tip-eater.with the "soft" one, also a cheap crap tip live forever

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 10:01:14 pm
content: I have a Hakko FX888D and a Weller WESD51 I use for hobby PCB work. I bought the Weller probably 6 years ago and it's still working well, but I've had trouble with the pencil's bayonet connector. I've had to mess with the contacts many times. The Hakko has a much more solid pencil connector. Otherwise the Weller works well and I like the tip selection available with it.I bought the Hakko FX888D just recently. It was notably cheaper than the Weller and much nicer in terms of construction. The Weller has a plastic power supply base where the Hakko is all powder coated metal, really nice.I had some trouble with the tip selection on the Hakko, had a hard time finding one that would work well for fine PCB work. I finally found one after tyring a couple that worked miserably, however, the cost of the preferred Hakko tip is almost double that of the preferred Weller tip. I use the ETS tip for the Weller and the T18-BR02 for the Hakko.The Hakko tips seem to be higher quality. I've had issues in the past with consistency between Weller tips or premature loss of plating. That doesn't appear to be an issue with Hakko tips.The pencils between the two stations are comparable. The Hakko pencil is shorter and fatter, but still comfortable. I probably like the feel of the Hakko pencil better. They use a similar mounting system for the tip, both easy to change quickly.Operation is more simplified for the Weller since it uses a dial. Though, I dont' really like the dial on the Weller, it's gotten loose and jumpy over time. Like the connector for the pencil, it's just not very sturdy. The FX888D is the digital version of the FX888 so the Hakko is all pushbutton with a digital display. Operation is a bit convoluted, but okay once you get used to it. The Hakko has two modes of operation, normal and program. I like program mode better, but normal is the default. It's easy to change throught the "parameters" menu.The Weller has a bigger, brighter digital display, but it's not a big point of contention by any means. The Hakko display is big enough and bright enough to use comfortably.The power button for the Hakko is on the side. The power button for the Weller is in front. It seems like a small thing, but it's kind of a hassle to fumble around on the side of the Hakko to turn it on and off, something you do a lot with a soldering iron.All things considered, I'd say the Hakko kicks the pants off the Weller, especially considering the price. Though, the tips cost more, but they seem to be higher quality. The one thing the Weller has over the Hakko is it's easier and faster to operate. It has a much better layout and control scheme. Also, I like the tip selection better.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 10:47:18 pm
content: Hakko tips are about 2$ each, thats not to expensive

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 10:49:19 pm
content: Where do you get them that cheap, links? Need to buy some more. The only two sources I've found for that particular tip are both around $10. It's one of the two most expensive tips for the Hakko.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 11:24:30 pm
content: Quote from: CraigHB on April 06, 2013, 10:49:19 pmhttp://www.amazon.com/Solder-Soldering-Iron-Hakko-Station/dp/B00AQARTRQ/ref=sr_1_14?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1365290487&sr=1-14&keywords=hakko+tipsA set of 10 for 8$http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000B5YCUI/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1365290556&sr=1-1&keywords=hakko+tips&condition=new1 for 4$Mostly just search E-Bay and Amazon

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2013, 11:48:43 pm
content: Ebay! A lot of tip selled for atten and hakko are made by hakkoIf you find the original, you've hakko tip for 2€!

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 02:10:30 am
content: Most of those are too large for fine PCB work. I'm working with things like 0603 components and SC70 packages in fairly high density. I need a really fine tip for that. The T18-BR02 is the best of all the fine ones I tried and compares well with the Weller ETS in terms of soldering results.I did a search on eBay for that particular tip and didn't see anything much less than online sellers likehttp://tequipment.net,http://testequipmentdepot.com, andhttp://hmcelectronics.com.

author: sbehnke
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 04:14:39 am
content: For what its worth, I recently bought a Hakko FX888D and have been very happy with it. My soldering skills still need work, especially surface mount components, but I can't blame the iron for that. It heats very quickly, maintains its temperature and is easily adjustable. The only caveat I've found is that many people have used the buttons incorrectly and set the iron into an un-calibrated state. This essentially requires you to use a probe to figure out how hot the tip is and then set the temperature back to what it really is. I've avoided monkeying around too much so far though and I've avoided doing this myself. It still goes through solder like a hot knife through butter.

author: cwalex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 04:16:06 am
content: Quote from: KJDS on April 06, 2013, 02:48:34 pmWhat do you mean by bigger stuff? I'm surprised that you find that the JBC has issues in that area!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 05:38:05 am
content: Quote from: Dataforensics on April 06, 2013, 02:52:30 pmCheck if your temp switch is working,as they do fail after a while,so the thing is "on" all the time,cooking the tip.Hold the iron near your ear (Not too near!) & you should hear the switch clicking as the temp gets up to its operate point.Sorry!,I note you are an OF,so you've probably already thought of this!Maybe the new tips just suck!

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 07:00:04 am
content: I may be wrong, but I've heard that the quality and reliability of weller products has gone down the shitter since cooper got hold of them.Looks like the beancounters have taken over.You may be experiencing the result of that.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 11:50:33 am
content: Quote from: CraigHB on April 07, 2013, 02:10:30 amUsing a fine tip actually makes things worse. It can't transfer enough heat so people usually crank up the temperature which burns up the flux even faster. Its better to use a big tip, add a little bit of extra flux (*) and let the surface tension do the work. The results will be much better with less effort. I use really big tips for soldering QFP and QFN packages.(*) Before soldering I spray flux onto the entire board.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 12:45:08 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on April 07, 2013, 05:38:05 amI haven't noticed any problem with the newer Weller models tips although for what I mostly do I still use my 30 year old Weller station (with new tips) more than any other.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 03:38:17 pm
content: Quote from: notsob on April 07, 2013, 07:00:04 amAlthough it happened under Cooper's watch, it wasn't immediate by any means, as Weller was merged into Cooper Industries back in 1970. They didn't go down hill until much more recently (early 2000's or so from what I can tell).

author: CraigHB
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 09:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 07, 2013, 11:50:33 amFor higher densities and lower pin counts, there isn't always room for a big tip. A large tip just may not fit in the area. You end up soldering the wrong area or damaging packages. If you're working with lower densities and higher pin counts, a big tip works well using a drag like you indicated. I do use that method when I have room.Not all fine tips are created equal. Some work poorly as I found with some of the Hakko tips. With a properly performing fine tip, I don't burn my flux and I don't need to crank up my iron to higher temperatures.The best method for PCB assembly by hand is reflow with a hot air pencil. If I could afford one, I wouldn't be using *any* tip.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 10:13:10 pm
content: Hot air really work only for smd.In fact, for throug hole devices, i've never used a tip smaller than the hakko 2.4DLikeOt: WTF i cant write throught trough trough djdhchdjdjd in the right way? It's insane!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 10:48:58 pm
content: Quote from: CraigHB on April 07, 2013, 09:05:16 pmYou're saying you can't afford the Atten 858D? Its about $60 or so and works like a charm O0 Dunno about the reflow though. Messing with solder paste, component flying around. I just use footprints which are suitable for hand soldering.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 07, 2013, 10:59:23 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 07, 2013, 10:48:58 pmIf the air flow isn't set too high, there shouldn't be a problem with parts blowing off the board.Too high though, and the parts may only surface again in a vacuum cleaner.Another trick I've seen with paste, is to tack the corners first with an iron.

author: staze
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 08, 2013, 03:53:35 am
content: Contrary to Dave's opinion on his #168 blog (http://www.eevblog.com/2011/04/30/eevblog-168-how-to-set-up-an-electronics-lab/) I LOVE my Weller WTCPT (tip controlled temp). Sure, can't change temps fast, but I rarely solder at anything but 700F, it's fast to come up to temp, and stays there. And they're bullet proof.That said, I have an FX-888 at work, and it's great too.

author: megahz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2013, 10:13:59 pm
content: I just realized that weller digital is extremely expensive

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2013, 02:44:30 am
content: Quote from: megahz on April 22, 2013, 10:13:59 pmIf you're considering say the Weller WESD51 vs. the Hakko FX-888D, get the Hakko.Not only is it less expensive, Hakko's QC is much better. You can get around Weller's tip QC issues by buying Plato tips where available, but it won't help you with the station itself, which also has QC issues (think DOA and hand pieces falling apart).

author: owlhawk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 23, 2013, 02:45:24 am
content: I have a Weller WES51 and have been very happy with it. Still using the same tips I got with it after ~5 years of using it regularly.Not to mention the one time I had to talk to their support, they were great. The iron actually came dead when I bought it... wouldn't power on at all. I called up their support and was put right through to an engineer/tech type person. He asked if I had a multimeter handy and had me take a few measurements. After a couple minutes he told me what was wrong with it (don't remember now) and that I should just send it back for a replacement. Got a new one a day or two later and haven't had the slightest problem since.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 23, 2013, 03:03:16 am
content: Quote from: owlhawk on April 23, 2013, 02:45:24 amGreat they took care of it.But given how simple they are, I have a problem with their defect rates (check out Amazon's reviews for example). Particularly with the more expensive products (think recall of their top of the line WX series due to it being so bad). Even with the unit I have, if the iron becomes defective, it has to be replaced (WP80 & WMP irons). Poor tip QC doesn't help either (every time I buy a new tip I can only get from Weller, I feel like I'm playing Roulette).So between the QC issues and costs (way too expensive IMHO to have those sorts of issues), it's put me off to the point my current Weller setup (WD1 + WP80 + WMP) is likely my last.

author: owlhawk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 23, 2013, 03:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on April 23, 2013, 03:03:16 amYeah, it's kind of disappointing that they can't seem to get the QC part right. At least in my experience they are really durable once you get a good one... we have several in the engineering shop at my school. They get used by lots of students and often thrown into a toolbox with a bunch of heavy tools, but all still work fine. Their initial failure rate does seem to be a problem though.As much as I like the one I have, for that reason, if I ever upgrade it probably won't be to another Weller.