Warning: Hidden GPS-Localisation trough Exif-Data in several Pictures - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:22:09 pm
content: Sometimes, i don't know, whether some participants are aware showing their direct address from pictures they made with e.g. smartphones. With Googles Street-View, sometimes you can directly look in the front yard or at-home-windows.So, if somebody doesn't want that, pleasecontrol your Exif-Databefore upload pictures somewhere, anddelete the GPS-Datainside. That's not special to iPhone-users, but mostly, in my opinion.friendly greetings to everyoneH.-W.

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:30:12 pm
content: Yes, this is well known. It has been used by law enforcement to track and apprehend child predators. It has the unfortunate side effect of making it easy to track anyone.That being said, I made a little (creepy!) hobby of finding out locations of people on YouTube, mainly vloggers, just by watching their videos and looking for site-specific information and correlating it with Google maps. I don't do this other than to prove how easy it is, and dear God, it is easy! I have found the exact home addresses of people by looking at signs, the inlet they live off of and other geographical features and a distinctive water tower among others, all features that no one would suspect to be used to locate them. I could do a Defcon talk on location hacking through images with what I've learned.Pretty much, if you post an image or video on the internet and someone wants to find you, the EXIF data may be totally unnecessary.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:40:43 pm
content: There's usually an option to disable that in the smartphone. I always turn it off. If you really want to be safe you can screencap the picture then paste it in another program then save it. That way you strip out any other info that is in there. (at least in theory?)

author: MarkS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 05:42:18 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on February 11, 2017, 05:40:43 pmDownload irFanView (an image viewer) and it has the option to display and edit the EXIF data directly.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 06:08:25 pm
content: Even date and time + the shadow length and angle of a vertical pole or similar that you can closely estimate the height of is enough to give away a rough position, within a few hundred Km, enough to narrow down your country, and in larger countries, region. If you value your privacy, sanitize your image data!

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 06:58:43 pm
content: Will give an example, why i noticed and wrote it here:some people shows their desk with gear of zigthousands of $ at home, or in other case, inside a wooden outhouse in their garden. That's certainly not quite as good, that strangers knows what's inside.That's quite equal, you have an address on your keychain for event of a loss.That`s not only knowing the address from someone.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 07:39:31 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on February 11, 2017, 05:40:43 pmI have old pictures that I wish I knew when and where they were taken so I wouldn't turn it off at the phone and loose the data. Also a screencap is usually a lot lower resolution.Download EXIFtool, its a cross platform tool which you can script to strip out the data before you post.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 08:23:32 pm
content: Yet another setting which should be disabled by default, but isn't. I wonder why.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 08:28:34 pm
content: As already mentioned , this could be the cure.http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Productivity-Sauce/Remove-EXIF-Metadata-from-Photos-with-exiftoolhttp://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/Or on the phonehttp://www.howtogeek.com/203592/what-is-exif-data-and-how-to-remove-it//Bingo

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 08:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on February 11, 2017, 08:23:32 pmThe last few phones we have bought it was disabled by default, I had to turn it on.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 08:59:07 pm
content: What would be cool would be separate setting for capturing location data and for sending it. If sending it is disabled, sending an existing picture should strip the EXIF data. If you ever need to grab a photo for evidence, you may not have time to fumble around turning on geolocation, so its better to have it on by default.Privacy is *YOUR* responsibility and requires constant vigilance and a disinclination to overshare.

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:01:07 pm
content: Basically it comes down to simple fact that "you" need to edit pics before you post them.And while you are at it, make the pic file size smaller. Don't post 1 MB pics. Please.

author: FreddyVictor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:22:58 pm
content: this has caught alot of folks out !reported a couple of years ago,Russian soldiers blogaccidentally revealed he was in rebel occupied held eastern Ukraine

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:33:47 pm
content: Quote from: shteii01 on February 11, 2017, 11:01:07 pmThat`s the point. Thanks

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:39:15 pm
content: There are usually quite some extra data added to pictures, not only the GPS location. Often even a small preview is included which can take quite some size. So even if you cut a picture to size - the preview could still show the full picture (though in reduced size, z.B. 100x160 pixel). Some programs use the JPG internal preview, others make there own.For smaller pictures files it is a good idea to reduce these extra data too.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2017, 11:46:26 pm
content: exiftool -strip will get rid of all the extra fields.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:00:27 am
content: Quote from: MarkS on February 11, 2017, 05:30:12 pmI agree. I once had to track someone down based on a partial picture of a hotel room and an idea of in which part of a country to look for. It took less than 3 hours to get the person on the phone.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:27:46 am
content: That someone can track and identify people, special with smartphones, that's an other big big problem.As for photographers, they develop their RAW fotos with photoshop, lightrom etc. are aware of this anyway! Thats only for people they upload their pictures directly from the phone. And yes,pure shrink doesn't solve the Exif-gps-problem! In general, i upload only photos that i control in that manner. Mostly i let the aperture-time-lens relations inside.

author: rhysb
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:38:06 am
content: Quotethis what I have found digital cameras that have inbuilt GPS often have it disabled by default too.I find this "feature" (depends who you ask) handy when say going on a long vacation, you can plot out your photos on a map on return. if you worried you can always strip out the exif before uploading your photos online.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:41:49 am
content: Quote from: rdl on February 11, 2017, 08:23:32 pmI fell for this. Various OS updates re-activated the location data on the camera after I had turned it of - SUPER ANNOYED since I posted all kind of pics on the internet.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:45:42 am
content: Well I just fired up Google Earth to see if I could locate Dave's address, knowing it would have solar panels on... but THEY ALL DO

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:49:39 am
content: Quote from: shteii01 on February 11, 2017, 11:01:07 pmOnly if you care whether someone knows where you live...

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 12:52:49 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 12, 2017, 12:49:39 amI am at home all day with my pit bulls and cleaning all my firearms.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 01:31:41 am
content: Quote from: rx8pilot on February 12, 2017, 12:52:49 amHa! You too? Actually mine's a very protective Great Pyrennes, Akita, Malamute, Rotweiler mix.. And a 12 gauge is all I need.

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 01:41:04 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 12, 2017, 01:31:41 amthat's the USA ...

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 02:49:58 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on February 12, 2017, 02:16:37 amBut exactly differentiated, who, for what and whom for shure. And precisely that`s not the case, if it is on by default, and for every update on again and hidden.The question is, who benefits in that behavior?This should be an "opt in" in general!

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 10:31:11 am
content: As long as the photos are on your phone or computer it is nice to have the geo tag and other infos with the pictures. The problem is when sharing photos, you might give a way more information than you think.So the right place for an opt in / opt out function or at least a warning would be when you upload the pictures. This could be the site where you upload the pictures to, like ideally they remove the geo-tag or ask you if you really want to include the location and maybe recalculate the preview thumb if needed.Shrinking the picture size does not generally remove the EXIF informations, but often the programs have the option to do so if you want, like an option on save.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 10:36:55 am
content: My camera does not have a GPS and I do not own a smartphone. Most days the mobile phone is left on the bedside table where it is used as an alarm clock.I feel safer.

author: tkuhmone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 03:27:32 pm
content: When I take images of my electronics equipment and general photos, I do not use GPS data (valid for both camera phone and DSLR). On the phone, I have disabled usage of location info in photos.For the DSLR, I have had an option (since 2006) to embed GPS data to images at the time when I take a photo. I have older Garmin GPS attached to DSLR - so it immediately attaches GPS to EXIF via serial NMEA data (you need to be outdoor then to get GPS coverage). This is the case when I take nature photos, like landscapes, plants etc. I use GPS data mainly for archiving images. Another option is to embed GPS data after image is taken, with additional software. There is also some cases where I do not want to share location info - for example if there is photo of rare animal, bird or so on...

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 04:05:16 pm
content: Quote from: tkuhmone on February 12, 2017, 03:27:32 pmOh yes, i remember, if any photographer captures one little rare Kingfisher here in germany, they are proud to give photos to any forum they could. But no one tells from where precisely these photos are, to protect this shy and nice little birds to observe from mass of peoples.Edit: so, everyone is like a little Kingfisher ...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 05:08:08 pm
content: When doing the crop and resize for forum use ( 1024 by 768 max) I strip the EXIF info and most other out, so there is often not even camera info, and the thumbnail is only the cropped image. Takes a 2-3M image down to 500k or so in many cases.

author: tkuhmone
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 05:26:36 pm
content: Quote from: hwj-d on February 12, 2017, 04:05:16 pmHeard also similar cases here.... I personnally have decided to stay outside of these "events"EDIT: for example some radio amateur use a APRS tracking system (also uses & shares location data). Currently I do not have APRS capable radio. If I would have, I would most propably not keep it on continuously...

author: shteii01
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:02:19 pm
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on February 12, 2017, 10:31:11 amThat is correct.My point was that since you already editing the pic, in addition to stripping EXIF info, you should also edit the file size.And yes, IrFanView (with plugins, use 32 bit version of the program for both 32 and 64 bit Windows) is a wonderful program that will allow you to do both.http://www.irfanview.com/

author: hwj-d
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:22:01 pm
content: Quote from: tkuhmone on February 12, 2017, 05:26:36 pmOT: Yes, this is workable, even if there is zero cell phone coverage

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:25:12 pm
content: +1 for Irfanview. It can also do batch operations including format conversion, smart resizing and stripping EXIF data, so its fairly easy to set up a workflow to automate preparing photos for the web.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 02:37:31 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on February 12, 2017, 01:31:41 amSup dog'n'gun buddy! I've got a *very* protective Belgian Malinois mix along with a happy go lucky GSD/Lab mix. Throw in my H&K 9mm USP (complete with suppressor) and I feel pretty secure!I used to work in a bad area, lots of crime. Once, I had someone pull a gun on me and my Malinois jumped out of the car (the windows were rolled down) and positioned herself between us. The hair on her back was standing up, she was showing her teeth and growling. This threw the guy off guard and he started to back up, which gave me the opportunity to pull my .380 carry piece out of my pocket.So the guy starts yelling at me to get the dog back in the car or he'll shoot her... I said, "Well, you could shoot her, but I guarantee it'll be the last thing you ever do... Then again, if you shoot *me*, I guarantee she'll attack, she's trained to go straight for your neck... *Or* you could turn around right now and leave, alive."He chose the latter option and booked it into an apartment complex. About a minute later the police arrived and did end up apprehending the dude. He got 10 years on armed robbery and the weapons charge.Now tell me, would a cat ever do that? Hell no! Dogs are awesome. Waffles (my Malinois) is my little furry protector. :}