REVIEW: Dental Surgical Binocular Loupes with LED Light - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tomlut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 02:14:10 pm
content: Purchased from ebay:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111522538217Purchased for AU $$63.99 (though they now seem to be going for $69.99).Postage: AU $6.50, took ten days to arrive including two weekends which was exceptionally fast (to suburban Tasmania).Feedback for the seller is not 100% but after reading through a few negative and neutral comments I decided most of the complaints were either user error or expecting too much from cheap Chinese products and the seller did seem to want to resolve problems. I have no association with the seller.The items arrived packed in a plain cardboard box with ~1cm HD foam padding and parts dividers. This was wrapped in a bubble-wrap plastic post satchel. Should survive all but the worst mail throwers.There was no manual included.Set up was quite easy though not without issues.An Australian pinned switch mode power pack was included to charge the battery pack. I have not split the case to check the quality. The pins do face the body of the plug pack to the right hand side so it does interfere with other plugs on a powerboard unless in the far right socket.The light will not operate while the battery pack is charging.The LED is a cool white with a good bright spot perfectly sized to the image circle through the loupes and has a reasonable and linear brightness adjustment range using the pot and on/off switch on the battery pack.The light clips over the nose piece reasonably securely with a friction fit. Not likely to fall off though a dab of superglue or epoxy would fix it in place permanently.There is a shirt/pocket cord clip included but I did not use it. I cable tied the light power cord to the left arm of the glasses (ties not included).The glasses do flex a bit but can carry the weight of the loupes and light easily. The nose piece pads are comfortable.To set up the loupes I removed the lens dust caps and adjusted the interocular distance, toe in angle and vertical angle. I found I had to drag the left side of the glasses down to level the two loupe images horizontally. Closer inspection revealed the nose mount had not been drilled level on the glasses.A slight slotting of the mounting holes in the loupe mount with a Dremmel fixed this problem.I could then merge the two images easily into a stereoscopic image and align the light. Focussing on a ruler and blinking alternate eyes while trying to make the numbers in each image as close as possible to overlaying one another was the most effective way I found to align the loupes.I have the friction of the adjustment joints set so that changes can be made if required and the loupes will maintain the setting unless handled roughly.The image circle is about 4.5cm at the focal distance. You could get wider if you are able to merge widely separated images easily.The lens surrounds do produce a noticeable border to the image circle but it is not distracting. It is easy to look past the loupes (above or below) to see the wider view.There is a very good 6cm depth of field.There is the expected spherical distortion and chromatic aberration associated with cheap glass lenses. This is not excessive though. The field of view remains sharp almost to the edge and you really have to look closely to notice any edge softness.On the whole the image is clear and the really good depth of field makes focusing on small work areas like soldering or part inspection very easy. The light helps immensely.There is reasonable light baffling but the lenses are not coated. I did not notice any internal reflections.The focal distance of 320mm is perfect for me sitting at my bench - I'm 170cmtallshort. Normally I bend over the bench and get quite close to my work. Not good for my back. With these loupes on I am sitting straight and comfortable in my chair when focussing on my desktopIf you a a taller person they are available in 450mm focal distance too. The easiest way to check which model you should buy is to sit at your workbench and run a tape measure from the bridge of your nose to where you are going to work.I replaced the neck strap with a spare I had laying around from a pair of sunglasses as the included strap does not fasten securely to the glasses arms (the rubber loops are a bit loose). When I use the glasses I cinch the strap up behind my head as a headband. This adds a bit of stability to the glasses but is not really needed.On the whole I am very happy with this purchase.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 02:31:03 pm
content: Need a photo of you wearing them.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 04:46:10 pm
content: Nice review thanks for sharing with us,

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 05:28:13 pm
content: Be nice if these would work for someone who wears glasses.

author: rx8pilot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 06:26:26 pm
content: My dental hygienist uses a set of these with glasses all day every day. They are the fancy $1000+ versions, but I am sure they make the know-off versions of those as well. I tried them on one day, and was amazed. So fantastic - maybe time to buy a pair.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 06:52:52 pm
content: Thanks for the review.In your picture it looks like you are looking straight ahead while the lens is pointing down. Is this the way you use them or do you tilt the lens up to use? ie would the lens hold in the up position?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 17, 2015, 09:05:26 pm
content: I guess it would be like bifocals, with a different prescription on the bottom of the glasses than on the top.So if you look straight you don't get any magnification, that's only if you look down.

author: tomlut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 03:21:56 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on August 17, 2015, 06:52:52 pmThat's the way I prefer to have them set up. Yes they will hold in the up / straight ahead position if you prefer, this is adjustable.

author: georges80
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 10:15:00 pm
content: Or put your $$ back into an oz company ->www.vorotek.com.aufor a real medical quality productcheers,george.

author: tomlut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2015, 11:08:26 pm
content: Sure, if you have upwards of $3000 to spare.http://www.vorotek.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Vorotek-L-M-Scope-Price-List-2014.pdf

author: FrankE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2016, 06:54:05 am
content: Sorry to bring up an old thread. I've been asking around as I'm looking for loupes while I dilly dally buying a stereoscope These are the same loupes and light that student dentists use.http://www.studentloupescompany.co.uk/How are you getting on with them?

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2018, 01:49:37 pm
content: Also (slightly) sorry for re-dragging up a thread but it helped me a lot with deciding what to get to (temporarily I suppose) hold off old-age vision problems. I had been looking at all sorts of things and just couldn't decide, so decided to get a set of these, basically the same as the review.Before the punch line, I should say I've had a cheap binocular microscope for years (bordering on decades maybe) - the same type as is common on eBay these days. I use it all the time and wouldn't be without it, image quality isn't perfect but the utility vastly outweighs any problems. Also more recently got a very nice cheap eBay special Olympus binocular head for my factory area and made a stand for it - apart from old age cloudyness (dust and haze inside, also in the microscope) its image quality is perfect. These are great for inspection, but I rarely solder under them because the magnification is far too high - "good eyes" tools. Folding jeweller's loupes are a similar purpose.Also a standard type (Dick Smith?) head visor magnifier which I used to use when needed for an extra-close view, but these days I'm finding extra lighting on its own does not help so I have to use something for fine work (unless I iterate stabbing and checking under microscope, sort of by feel and overexperience). But I find the visor quite cumbersome for routine work, ironically because of the microscope (I forget, and smash the lower edge of the lens into the microscope eyepieces). I quite like the equipoise style lighted magnifiers but don't have the space and prefer to be a bit more agile. Tried +4D reading glasses for mechanical workshop, excellent as magnifiers but not so safe until I can relearn to take them off before striding off into a web of stepper motor cables and upward-pointing scissors. Also bought some lower power bifocals now I've had to accept my arms are rapidly getting too short for reading small stuff (could still read 0603s up till about 45) and a few other toys yet to arrive.Anyway, back to the dental loupes. Best I can describe is that they're like a head-mounted portable low magnification medium quality binocular microscope (which means "good", if you wanted a tl;dr). I can see me using these a lot, because they give a fairly natural sense of depth and scale in spite of my comically large tip, while providing a surprisingly unobstructed view of stuff around them, and don't poke out too far or require face right up in the work. I got 3.5*320 - I definitely wouldn't want to go any lower in magnification (it's more like 2.25) nor have the working distance further away (I'm used to feeling the warm glow of the soldering iron and sting of flux smoke in the eye, with a trusty coil of Sn62 solder gripped in my teeth). The adjusters are so floppy (not the same screw problem) that I'll need to do a mod or hit them with some hot glue, but basically fine. The light is savagely bright on full. Just as well.My lenses are coated, strangely the plastic lenses of the glasses also seem to be AR coated. A bit more chromatic aberration than I was hoping for, but per OP's review it is fine and doesn't detract from use. I had a little manual! (Can't remember if it had anything useful in it, except the title "User's manual book" which I found amusing.) Mine came with the unnecessarily large functionless metal knobs where the oculars? (loupe part) screw on, as visible in some of the pictures on eBay. The auction photos showed no baffling in the tubes, but the real thing does have it exactly like OP's review.Who I should thank for the useful review, and apologise for the walltext.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 24, 2018, 02:01:42 pm
content: I posted this elsewhere but I will add it here. I just bought a Donegren OptiVisor with a total of 4 different interchangeable lenses in the package. For me, it is an amazing value for $59 USD. I have never tried loupes that connect to my glasses, not sure that I would like that as I tend to like frames on the smaller size. The current pair of glasses I have now is about the smallest I can get yet still have my digital progressive lenses in them. I have used cheap headset magnifiers for years. I wish I would have bought the OptiVisor sooner.Lighting is not an issue. My workbench has 2, 4', 6 bulb LED shop light fixtures across it. Mrs GreyWoolfe calls them the surface of the sun in the office.

author: wasyoungonce
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 04:36:30 am
content: Thanks Tom...might grab some myself they lok ok and working dist is good...what did you say was the approximate dioptre....around 3.5X...which is about right for fine work.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 12:39:48 pm
content: The kit I bought, the 4 lenses are 1.75x, 2x, 2.5x and 2.75x. The 2.75x lens has some quite serious magnification compared to what I was used to. I was looking at the 3.5x lens and the best price I could find was $30 plus shipping on Amazon-it's not eligible for Prime. I don't think I would need it, the 2.75x seems plenty good enough.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 04:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on November 25, 2018, 12:39:48 pmThe prices on extra Donegan lenses is some type of scam I think. If you have just bought a visor it must be recorded in your history and they quote you an inflated price. Like the old sucker that I am I purchased at the same time. I happened to check 8 months later to see if there are other magnifications available and the price on the lens I bought had dropped $30 ish -> $9.xx , Bastards. They must be doing some alpha-beta dynamic pricing my conspiratorial mind tells me.

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2018, 08:21:17 pm
content: Tomlut, thanks for the nice review. I have been looking for a nice solution for working with the small SMD components, and I will give a try if these binocular loupes will be more practical compared to working with the microscope or magnifying class. If not, the set back won't be too bad anyways.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2018, 07:57:28 am
content: A headband jewelers visor the 'good' wife bought me after using some cheap Jaycar ones for years.These have 2 sets of lens holder so you can double up any combo of the 5 lenses it comes with.Nice clear poly carbonate lenses.Both bands are finger wheel adjustable for a comfortable fit ......needed as these do have a bit more weight to them than the flip lens visors.No brand only some #'s on the box and you can see yourself if they're available.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 06:41:58 am
content: I am feeling like a bit of a muppet for jumping in with my cheap dentist loupes story before the honeymoon period wore off (or I had really attempted to get them set up properly).I am preferring my old DSE head visor magnifier more and more - the image is noticeably clearer despite being about the same magnification, as judged by being able to read small text on things like a USB power adapter or SMT stuff. I'll just have to learn to not smash them into the microscope. The loupes do work and there is nothing visibly unclear about the central part of the image, but there does seem to be something odd about the way the telescope optics work perhaps with my eyes - lower depth of field and much stronger CA compared to a basic lens and contrast of fine markings does seem to suffer a little (just enough to make a difference when trying to pick out very small details). Once the item is central and well lit then readability is on par with the visor. If you have some focussing ability left in your eyes, then a visor (or simple lens, or reading glasses - all the same thing) seems to preserve this range better, allowing greater magnification (than the loupes will allow) up close, which may account for some of this extra utility.The mechanical arrangement of the dental loupes is bad to the point I wonder if they are seconds? As in, the good ones made for name brand distributors and this is what was left? I say that because general quality isn't low with above-cheap optical finishes and good strong plastic, but there are significant misses in the rigidity and alignment of important parts. I ended up having to drill out screw holes like the OP after all. Most perplexing (nearly wrote perspexing!) was finding a way to make the left ocular point up down (vertical convergence is not adjustable, and relied on slop and stick to get in right position). My idea to hit it with some hot glue was not going to cut it. I ended up undoing the inter-ocular distance knob and packing the undersize sliding parts with tape so it was a snug fit, then managed to undo one of the "functionless metal knobs" (they do undo, just very tight) and shoved a sliced off wedge of matchstick in the mating gap to have the left thingie point down rather easily after that. Could provide pix but I want to get this up first.Another mod that would improve utility would be to arrange the telescopes as close to the lens plastic as possible, which increases the field of view. Like surgical loupes, which are cut through the glasses lenses. Or take the plastic out entirely, though it is nice (and definitely AR-coated).As the contradiction inherent in my original post hints at - I'd actually prefer a closer working distance and more magnification (not as close as a head visor or +4D reading glasses, but something in between). Remembering the magnification is of objects 320mm away so already quite small, and 2.25 times is not a lot, plus it is a bit odd not having to move your head closer to get a closer view (then again old age is a kick in the guts if you're used to that!). I've experimented with putting low power magnifying lenses at the back of the telescopes and this may help. Not game enough yet, but they may be openable and lenses moved around.At the end of the day, I think dental loupes exist more to provide a 'safe' working distance (and smaller effective stereo angle for looking down holes) than any other reason. My original problem was the all-or-nothing far / close modes of things like reading glasses and even a visor worn in the sweet-spot, and the loupes do help with that (as bifocals might - still yet to arrive from the bay of E, as are some lower mag half-frame glasses of the type you see fashionable oldies wearing).Anyway, that's my (second) story. I'm still glad I bought the dentist loupes, even with the mods for the price (we are spoiled these days), and think I should have bought some much sooner (and with less fuss), so I had something else in my arsenal rather than being a panicked effort to regain my youth (in an approximate sense, because that ain't coming back).

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 09:50:29 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on November 26, 2018, 07:57:28 amYou can find almost the same thing on Amazon. MG81001-G, the H model is not available.. It doesn't have the piece over the top of the head but it has the 5 lenses.https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=mg81001-g&sprefix=mg81001%2Caps%2C168&crid=9K9FPSFSFTUS&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Amg81001-g

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 10:00:00 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on November 27, 2018, 09:50:29 pmThanks.These aren't the 'lightest' design so without the 2nd 'over head' band you'd want the single headband tension quite tight so they wouldn't slip down. That might be somewhat uncomfortable for extended use. I'd urge those considering these without the top band to think again.

author: richnormand
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 27, 2018, 10:17:56 pm
content: @tomlutI have a pair that I use everyday that is nearly identical, except for the light.Although they have full adjustments for position and proper angle I found that putting a 1.5cm diag lens on one side of the glasses to compensate my diopter difference between my eyes makes a lot of difference.Not only I can flip them up and see properly, the 3D image is more easily rendered.So if you have an optical "power" difference in your eyes compensating it before donning these helps a lot.

author: adx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 12:28:15 am
content: Thought I'd better add the 3rd instalment to my postings as it might be a while before I complete these mods...I did rip into the loupe telescopes after all - easy, the front aluminium rings just unscrew. Behind that is a nice doublet lens (assuming real because the join is strongly curved), at the back a concave (both sides equal and coated) lens - the "Galilean" telescope. These sandwich in place the black spacer, once out what looked like a baffle is just a series of (half toroidal) rings moulded inside. As I had hoped, increasing the spacing between lenses gives a very useful increase in magnification, even within the thread range of the front cap (simply pack out the spacer).But with that I have my answer to the quality concerns. They are just "cheap" - the usual story, components are reasonably good quality and most things done quite well, but that last 'little' step of building things with precision and care is just lacking. The mount recess for the back lens is smaller than the lens, so the lens just rocks around on the edge and is why the left loupe didn't seem completely screwed closed. The spacer is a rattley fit in the housing so slides around a bit too, and isn't perfectly straight. The result is completely hit and miss optical alignment which I guess they 'adjust' by disassembling and reassembling a few times until it seems good enough. Very similar to that cheap binocular microscope I mentioned - I ended up putting a piece of fusewire behind one the objectives to get a tolerable picture and that has served me well for years/decades? since. So that's what I did with the offending left loupe - it improved the quality a little. The problem seemed to be a very slight astigmatic blur (different from my eyes) which made points into very short vertical lines, very hard to notice but it was affecting clarity of very fine detail. Also with the misalignment, the sweet spot for each loupe isn't in its centre (I had to take the matchstick out the alignment changes so much). Unlike a magnifying glass which only bends the rays a small amount, a Galilean telescope (almost) forms a focussed image, so the lenses are called on to work like in a camera which means their quality is more important and alignment does need to be vaguely right for good performance.What I have in mind is drill out the back lens mounts entirely, and find a way of mounting the front and back lenses that gets them a little further apart, better aligned, and obscures the field of view less. A "one day" job but one I think I might get around to, because I smashed my head magnifier yet again into something lastnight.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2018, 07:23:10 pm
content: As somebody who has recently done this I can attest to the fact that almost any eye drop that is sold can have a tiny bit of pure l-carnosine added to it and that that will markedly improve vision for somebody who is a bit older. However, once you add the carnosine you need to throw the eye drops away in a few days, as carnosine is a amino acid derivative it may feed bacterial growth so I would be conservative and assume that once you start adding carnosine you should discard them in a few days and make new.For 15 ml of saline eye drops, a very small amount of l-carnosine should be used, about the amount in a match head. I have no way of measuring how much I use, I always use the same amount, in volume, using a small measuring spoon, or estimating it visually. I always taste it first. L-Carnosine has a bland but recognizable taste. It is soluble in water.Make sure its pure! Get it from a reputable seller.However l-carnosine when used this way is extremely cheap since so little is used. Also if you use the cheapest generic eye wetting drops they are pretty cheap too, much cheaper than the $50 n-acetyl carnosine eye drops sold for pets that some people buy or the $45 for three tiny vials human version.Note: L-carnosine is not as effective as the (patented) n-acetyl carnosine is in reversing eye yellowingby weightor by the drop,but the ultimate result is the same, and the cost differential makes it affordable for all even pet dogs who have major problems with eyes as they age, so knowing this is very useful.