Would a high bandwidth brain to computer interface revolutionize technology? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 02:57:55 am
content: If there existed some way to quickly send information from the brain to a computer (at a rate a few orders of magnitude faster than existing input devices), how would it revolutionize technology? My thought is that content creation would be radically changed - just imagine something and tell the computer about it. Programming, likewise, would also be vastly accelerated.I also assume that the technology for that is a long ways off, but just how long off?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 03:41:52 am
content: It would not do anything to the programming. When I program, I'm absolutely not limited by the speed of my typing. Majority of the time is spent thinking though the problem, which does not need a computer at all.And in general, I don't think it would do much if anything at all. It might make existing tasks more convenient and marginally faster, but I doubt it would revolutionize anything.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 04:10:39 am
content: I agree with the programming ... I spend more time thinking about what can go wrong and how to deal with those conditions than actually writing code - sanitising inputs, checking boundary conditions and the like.I see major hurdles for generic functionality, but even specific functionality hasn't done much lately. We're only just getting into bionic limb control, much less the scenario of Clint Eastwood in Firefox ... some 40 years ago.I don't say it's impossible - but it's just that we are so far off from that, we really don't even know what questions to ask.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 06:41:38 am
content: But if it worked it would pick up on the thinking about a programming problem and might provide the solutionThat aside, it is in the restoring of lost capabilities that it can work both ways. For instance blind people can get some vision again with signal input into the brain. This has seen some breakthrough recently.https://www.zmescience.com/science/artificial-retina-blindness-882623542/The other way round is controlling artificial limbs like Brumby mentioned, where the electric impulses found in the body can be used. Don't know the status of this.Real control of systems based on brain waves, I think is not there yet. I'm sure there will be lots of research done on it.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 06:49:48 am
content: Not sure if it would revolutionize anything, but it has killed a few monkies already.Fortune.com:Quote

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 06:51:10 am
content: My opinion, we have to be deliberate about the topic, which if it's exploring 'creativity' that's a very subtle science. On other hand, more mechanical improvements, such as in real-time control will likely be accomplished first, that being auto-coding certain portions, and using various advanced test and debug functions. Those mostly with reliable or consistent features.But the creation thing, that's a tough one. Could you, as a young person, 'create' a Van Gogh, or Jimi Hendrix ? OR, even predict such originators (a bit, maybe, but not with any real specificity). As odd as it might sound, some advanced YOGA practices have noted episodes of 'creativity' and in philosophical fields.A four year old with imagination beats a 40 year old Engineer...well, almost every time, for 'creative' origination, but they lack to experience and language to use that.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2022, 07:49:56 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 28, 2022, 02:57:55 amI would probably hate watching content that was created that way.Even with today's technology, watching videos that consist just of stream-of-consciousness rambling, or unedited footage shot with a hand-held mobile phone, are painful to watch. Imagine watching someone's imaginations raw and unedited -- I guess I would either be bored to death or get sick very quickly...

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 04:38:51 am
content: Quote from: ebastler on August 28, 2022, 07:49:56 amI'm thinking that if you could think of an image (any image) and have it appear on the computer in a short time, it will be a whole new paradigm for creating such images. It wouldn't be much of a step to extend it to videos.It obviously won't solve the problem of knowing how to create good content.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 04:46:10 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 29, 2022, 04:38:51 amI don't think it works this way. You don't think of an image all at once, even in your thoughts you "paint" by parts and details. So, whatever the connection is, it would have to be able to recreate the final result incrementally based on partial information and possibly feedback based on what it painted so far. And it would have to be smart enough to resolve conflicting thoughts.So, it would still be paining, but with more advanced brushes consisting of entire elements that fit nicely. And in this case you will probably get better results from things like DALL-E. There is no real need to take instruction from the brain if you can type them. After all, instructions are short.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 06:51:56 am
content: I wish there was something that could turn the music in my head into a MIDI file or some kind of multi track recording.

author: timenutgoblin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 07:21:14 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 28, 2022, 02:57:55 amYes, I think so. I wish I had a high bandwidth brain.Quote from: ataradov on August 28, 2022, 03:41:52 amMaybe having a philosophical computer capable of determining whether a problem is worth computing at all as opposed to a computer capable of solving the problem quickly could be more useful.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 08:03:59 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 29, 2022, 04:38:51 amThere would also be a major problem due to thishttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughtif left unfiltered.QuoteThat is unless you're hooked up to a machine recording your thoughts. You'd have to exibit high self control otherwise random things like "I'm going to throw my kid out a window" "I so want to have sex with " "I hope  dies" would get recorded or even broadcast, and no longer easy to just forget about a moment later. So yeah, you'd either get bored to death from someone trying too hard not to think negative that they just barely think of anything, or get sick very quickly from the noise in our fallable meat machine processors.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 08:24:28 am
content: You would probably end up with a lot of "Jackson Pollock" art. Not my thing

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 12:36:33 pm
content: I don't know if folks can get past the paywall(s) but...https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/24/technology/ai-technology-progress.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/06/technology/openai-images-dall-e.htmlCreativity from an AI is already here. There are examples like 'draw a picture of 2 cats playing chess' and the output is indeed such a painting and it is very good.Google search for 'DALL-E' (no quotes)I don't see much for the AI to gain from connecting to a human brain. Most people's thought process more closely approximates 'random walk'.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 02:24:31 pm
content: I'm sure it wouldn't change anything first, and then a decade later Facebook would be using it to download advertisement and theonlycorrect political opinion directly to your cerebral cortex. And junkies would use it to permanently trigger parts of their brain, and make them completely unfunctional in a society.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 06:56:09 pm
content: There are many attempts already, probably the most famous is Elon Musk's Neuralink. Something like this:(didn't watch this 8 mins, seen some longer couple of hours demo + press conferences some months ago).Yes, a high bandwidth connection will change the World and how we will interact with each other. Same about augmenting one's brain with Internet, and AI, and IoT connected straight to neurons.What it is known for sure (from the prosthetic industry), is that any neural network can adapt itself and can learn how to make sense of any data stream. Neural networks, including brain cells can adapt to "understand" any data stream. For example, even a mush of rat brain cells grown in a Petri dish was able to learn how to flight a fighter jet by itself. The rat brain cells grown in the Petri dish filled with connection wires and interfaced with a PC game learned how to pilot a fighter jet!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 06:58:04 pm
content: One random question: what for?

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 09:00:31 pm
content: High BW achieved in nature by animals and humans over the last 1M yrs evolution...Bats...SomarFrogs..FDM, TDM Mxp commsSensors:Eyes, ears,COMMS: NervesCPU/DSP/Image/sound processorbraineg extract voice conversation from noisy crowded room of sound...eg extract pattern in dark noise imageYour thoughts?Jon

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 09:20:43 pm
content: Indeed, also tactile sensing by skin an hair, all these are amazing features we have and take them for granted.Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 29, 2022, 06:58:04 pmPersonal belief, there is no meaning in anything.Things just happen, the Universe unfolds according to the rules of physics, for apparently no reason. Meaning is a human concept related to our goals of staying alive and multiply.Or else said, it would be the same "what for" as it was for anything else that already happened since forever. What for the agriculture, the gun powder, the boats, the electricity, the Internet , or anything else? Humans and the world were existing just fine without any of these, yet all these new things somehow did happen, and now we have them, weather we like them or not.

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2022, 11:39:39 pm
content: Probably no great advantage - because while every brain is ‘wired’ in much the same way, the data organisation is quite arbitrary - dependent on the individual and their personal journey.The ability to ‘backup’ a brain for example, is great, but only useful restored into the exact same context.In a computer for example, the instructions and data are handled and stored separately, but in a brain, they are intermixed on an opportunistic event based structure.No individual piece of data makes any sense in a different context.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 12:23:12 am
content: What I notice is that most everyone presumes that the tech is to assist in commanding the robots.I want it working in the other direction. Like just blinking and then understanding a wall of text. Or like the time Kanuu learned gung-fu.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 12:55:58 am
content: I'm sure it would find applications in porn and games, beyond that I don't know, it seems likely to cause a lot more problems than it solves though.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 10:35:37 am
content: Especially when it would connect our inner thoughts to the internet. Peace would fly out of the window in a heart beat.Our brain is also a filter when it comes to generating output like speech or writing. When tapped in before this filter it will show a lot of ugliness.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 10:40:35 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on August 30, 2022, 12:23:12 amThat is what is being done to restore vision, like I posted earlier in this thread. Guess it should be possible to extend it to stream data into your brain. Not sure I would like it though. It is busy enough in my head. And no, just a single person in there, not schizophrenic

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 10:49:28 am
content: Quote from: james_s on August 30, 2022, 12:55:58 amWell of couse people use VR for games and porn, it's the 21st century.But it would be less accessable if it involved literal brain surgury. And yes, there's always that sci-fi trope of nefarious people using brain interfaces as some form of mind control/reprogramming (even in my own sci-fi universe). Basically some bad actor always messes with someone's memories and personality, or just to torture/imprison them, like Total Recall, The Matrix, Star Trek (Borg), exc.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 10:55:40 am
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 30, 2022, 10:35:37 amYep, as I said earlier, "intrusive throughts" would be near impossible for a machine to filter out. It would be like a constant stream of weird waking dreams and nightmares as our brain sifts through several thoughts at a time before latching on to one to work with. Garbage in, garbage out.

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 11:05:59 am
content: One thought popped up just now. Poor in alcohol and the brain filter is tweaked

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 11:22:36 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on August 29, 2022, 06:58:04 pmI for one am intrigued in what changes it will bring in how humanity experience porn. For science of courseSeriously though, enchancements or restoration of vision, hearing, limbs. It could be fantastic. But ghost in the shell, matrix, deus ex, we already know what is really going to happen when such a technology would become mainstream

author: AndyBeez
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2022, 12:17:48 pm
content: So where exactly inside your head are the words in this question being comprehended?Figure that out and then figure out how to connect that to a USB-C port.