Alphaphoenix is again pushing his electrons pushing electrons, now in water. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: aetherist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 12:30:41 am
content: Alphaphoenix is again pushing his silly idea that electricity in/on a wire is due to silly electrons pushing electrons, this time he measures the speed along a wire in water.X1. Enamelled thin Cu wire in air – along a squarish loop in his front yard.X2. Enamelled thicker Cu wire in air.X3. Enamelled multi-strand Cu plus air coated with rubber (silicone).X4. Enamelled Cu wire in air – one leg of loop inside PVC pipe.X5. As per X4 but with PVC partly full of water.Brian measured & calculated the speed of electricity to be…..X1 98c/100X2 98c/100X3 96c/100X4 say 95c/100 (Brian duznt say)X5 69c/100.By my reckoning my elekton elekticity (photons hugging the outside of the Cu, ie photons are propagating in the enamel) says that all five speeds should have been 66c/100, ie the speed of light in enamel. Still thinking.Any ideas out there? ? ? ?

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 04:07:20 am
content: Assuming no magnetic media, the velocity factor for a transmission line of constant cross section depends on the average dielectric constant experienced by the electric fields generated by the wires. If the dielectric is also uniform and isotropic this is easy, if the dielectric is non-uniform (such as an insulated wire surrounded by air) then the computation is more complicated and also frequency dependent: the transmission line will have dispersion. However, the low frequency limit is easily calculated and is usually good enough.There are free tools available that can calculate this and for simple geometries or coarse approximations you can do it yourself pretty easily.At very low frequency you also have to take into account the non-zero skin depth in the wires. This will also cause dispersion, but is normally neglected as few systems care about or can measure the velocity factor at 100 kHz, so this is often neglected as well.In the cases you described, it sounds like X1-X4 have mostly thin insulation so a lot of the electric field is in air. Thus it is expected that the velocity factor is close to 1. For X5, the electric field is mostly in water, so the velocity factor is lower.

author: aetherist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 05:04:03 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on November 04, 2022, 04:07:20 amI cant remember Brian mentioning TL theory -- anyhow i doubt that TL applies to a single wire in a large rectangle.All 5 of his Xs had almost immediate crosstalk, ie well before the main signal finished a lap, similarly to his earlier Xs, & similarly to Veritasium's two Xs.I reckon that the speed of electricity is the speed of light in the insulation, ie touching the Cu, but i don’t know what the critical thickness is, ie enamel might have full effect if say 0.1mm thick, but much less effect if say 0.01mm thick.Brian did mention frequency – i don’t know the Hz of his input signal (he probly didn’t say) – he should have used a low Hz so that he had a simple DC with no AC complications.I don’t understand how he can say that the speed of electricity for a wire in water is 9 times slower than the theory.

author: aetherist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 08:07:04 pm
content: HobbyJoyTV2 months agoWhere’s that part 2 u promised? I had the impression that you cut off the rest of the footage recorded for your previous vid on electricity and was making that into another video 1AlphaPhoenix2 months ago@HobbyJoyTV part 2 is now three parts lol. This is part 2aSo, it looks like Brian is belatedly going to give us his explanation for his brain melting peculiar voltage rise in his original X -- should be interesting -- watch this space.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 08:12:47 pm
content: We were missing your funky aether theories here.

author: aetherist
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 09:19:16 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 06, 2022, 08:12:47 pmMy elekton elekticity theory is what should give me a Nobel. And my screw-thread-X would seal that.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/veritasium-(yt)-the-big-misconception-about-electricity/1200/But AlphaPhoenix's latest water-X seems to contradict my elektons.The simple answer is that Brian cheated -- ie his 28 m loop of wire is actually 2*28m/3 = 18mIn which case his calc speed of 98c/100 for an enamelled wire should be 2*98c/3 = 66c/100 as per my elekton theory.