Rebuilding Lead Acid batteries - The street method - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 01:57:39 pm
content: I just came across this video of a guy rebuilding Lead Acid batteries the 'hand crafted' way. I know that back in the 1920s it was common to hand rebuild batteries in the workshop, straighten buckled plates etc. but those were the days of glass jars, vulcanised rubber and molten pitch sealing, this guy is sitting at the side of the street, doing the same thing with modern (Chinese or mock japanese from the markings) plastic cased batteries.It just seems wrong on so wrong on so many levels. The ones I spotted...1. Zero protective equipment - no gloves, open sandals, no breathing protection (the fan can be seen spinning at one point, blowing fumes into the street).2. Washing cell debris into an area of gravel. It doesn't show what happened to the bulk of the Sulphuric acid.3. Solid plates, no grids and paste (can't see the construction of plates already in the envelopes)4. No re-sealing of the partitions between the cells (no containment of explosive gasses to individual cells), just relying on electrolyte level for cell separation.5. Interesting but dodgy looking forming of plate tabs6. De-burring the edges of the plates with a simple file (more dust)7. Uncontrolled open heating of molten Lead.8. A very dodgy looking welder / soldering iron.9. Very scary (sparky) charging method (especially with plugs out to facilitate rapid gassing!)10. I guess the original internals will get recycled by similarly scary methods (high temperature melt-down back to pure-ish lead).11. Packing out the gaps between the plates and cell walls with wadding.12. [Edit: The re-sealing method]13. I wonder what his life expectancy is!This just seems to be such a sad flip side to of the levels of skill and pride going to the hand rewinding of those big motors that somebody posted the other week.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 02:25:56 pm
content: Thats the deveoping world where recycling and repurposing are the norm. H&S costs would probalbly make what he's doing pointless.Feeding his family probably means a lot more to him than going crazy and dying from lead poisoning. Worrying bout the state of the planet is a luxury he can't afford.Our junk is others lives, see the hell that is Agbogbloshie.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2021, 03:16:21 pm
content: Yeah I know, it's all about providing for the family and survival. This one just struck me as particularly sad though, when contrasted with the pride that the guys obviously took in the motor rewinding ones, with equally primitive tools. Sorry, I should have linked that one...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/132-kw-ac-motor-rewinding-by-hand-in-great-detail/I guess everyone has to find a niche to fill.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 07:26:35 pm
content: Quote from: Terry Bites on February 28, 2021, 02:25:56 pmWell, 99% of lead acid batteries in the US are recycled and repurposed.However, the barrier to entry this business properly, considering all the health and safety precautions, is something this guy can't afford apparently.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2021, 09:18:30 pm
content: There's a reason most car batteries cost north of $100 nowadays...In a developing country, that just isn't realistic.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 11:43:27 am
content: "North of $100" - I just paid $299 for a battery for a BMW. Shelf price was $340. Also, try buying a roll of lead flashing at Bunnings.Thanks for posting this. I'm the poster of that motor rewinding video, and this was fascinating.See alsohttp://everist.org/NobLog/20180430_lead_acid_ruin.htm>1. Zero protective equipment - no gloves, open sandals, no breathing protection (the fan can be seen spinning at one point, blowing fumes into the street).What did you expect? Actually I think a few stages are not shown in the video, like washing out the acid initially. He's not handling full strength battery acid soaked plates with his bare hands.Exposed melting of lead is not too bad. After all, we do it all the time with solder.>2. Washing cell debris into an area of gravel. It doesn't show what happened to the bulk of the Sulphuric acid.The video skips a LOT of 'worst bits'. Also what happens to the old lead plates?>3. Solid plates, no grids and paste (can't see the construction of plates already in the envelopes)Well that's typical of garden variety lead acid cells everywhere.The big question is, where'd the new plates come from? Really he's only reusing the battery casing. Everything else is new.Somewhere there's a whole industry refining the old plates down, and forming new plates. There's some very tricky alchemy with trace elements alloyed in the plates, for optimal performance. I wonder if they are doing that or not?>4. No re-sealing of the partitions between the cells (no containment of explosive gasses to individual cells), just relying on electrolyte level for cell separation.Oh well. It will work. Just don't tilt the battery.>5. Interesting but dodgy looking forming of plate tabsActually I thought that was pretty clever.>6. De-burring the edges of the plates with a simple file (more dust)Hmm, wasn't that during the disassembly of the old plates?>7. Uncontrolled open heating of molten Lead.Kids used to know how to melt lead in tin cans on open fireplaces, pouring it into sand molds. I did anyway.The important thing is to be careful with the lead oxide. Don't breath the dust, wash your hands after.>8. A very dodgy looking welder / soldering iron.I thought that was very cool. Did you recognise the 'red glowing rod'? That's the carbon rod pulled out of a dead carbon-zinc dry cell. Probably a D-size one. For melting lead connecting tabs together, that's a great idea. Minimal materials, near zero cost 'soldering iron.'>9. Very scary (sparky) charging method (especially with plugs out to facilitate rapid gassing!)What, do you expect him to spend money to buy new cable lugs? When just whacking it does the job?>10. I guess the original internals will get recycled by similarly scary methods (high temperature melt-down back to pure-ish lead).Somewhere else. Might even be state of the art. Who knows?>11. Packing out the gaps between the plates and cell walls with wadding.But of course. The new packs are not exactly the right size, so something has to hold the plates together.>12. [Edit: The re-sealing method]Next time I have to rejoin some injection-molded plastic parts, I'm going to try that. Just set it on fire!>13. I wonder what his life expectancy is!He's already reached a ripe old age. Does he know or care? Or have a choice? It's a shitty world.Some years ago I was in China for a while. Passed a small welding shop guy, arc welding on the street front with absolutely no eye protection. I don't know how he wasn't blind within a day. Skin cancer within a month. But he'd obviously been doing it for decades.Here he'd be in trouble just for exposing passers by to the arc light.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 12:04:28 pm
content: No one cares about health and safety, when there's no alternative. Did that welding shop guy make his own welding gear, by any chance?

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 12:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on March 05, 2021, 11:43:27 am

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 02:00:06 pm
content: Quote from: Zero999 on March 05, 2021, 12:04:28 pmIf he built that transformer from raw scrap (as it looks) he actually did a darned good job - I bet few of us could do it with virtually no tools. We're too spoiled - modifying MOTs is about as primitive as we get.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 02:08:49 pm
content: Agree, I'm actually impressed with what can be done by hand, if you're determined enough.It is a bit like watching someone sketching a precise CAD drawing by hand with a charcoal pencil, without the aid of any rulers or protractors, and the final product actually working!

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 02:12:15 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on March 05, 2021, 11:43:27 amIt didn't seem that different to using a plastic welder - the main difference is that we would expect a temperature controlled device, but obviously having it very hot works too, as long as you don't mind the smoke!

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 02:13:50 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on March 05, 2021, 12:47:32 pmPerhaps the oiled paper has pinholes? The newspaper seems to show behind his glasses lenses. That should work fairly well, especially if he partially shielding the arc with his torch. His welder isn't that big either, although I couldn't see the machine. The cable and the torch are relatively small. Probably the equivalent of one of those 115V units.

author: ChemTalk
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 04:44:48 pm
content: Interesting studies here on absorbing lead through the skin, involving battery workers. Maybe this guy was part of the study?https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12529920/https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6953865_Skin_Absorption_of_Inorganic_Lead_PbO_and_the_Effect_of_Skin_CleansersWhat's surprising, is how washing can make the absorption rate increase. The amount of lead absorbed is not large, but repeated over many years, will add up.--------------------------------------------------------ChemTalkChemical Elements

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 05, 2021, 08:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on March 02, 2021, 09:18:30 pmYeah, i've noticed that lead acid batteries hover around 1€/Ah where i'm from.