Printing on to a Front panel - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 07:54:55 am
content: I am sure I am not the only one who has wanted to make a nice printed front panel so figured I would share this technique (ok it was experimental so I haven't yet taken pictures of the process but it is pretty straightforward)Inspired by the Toner transfer method of etching circuit boards I have worked out a similar technique for doing front panels.immediate short comings are that this will not work on plastics, and is best against a light coloured (white or silver) back ground.Since I was using Aluminium I started with an etch-primer undercoat and then a matt white enamel spray paint (I used Ultracolor brand, but am sure other brands will work - they do need to be able to handle high temperatures though).My image was printed (in reverse) using a Laser Printer (note this will NOT work with an Inkjet) onto water soluble paper I found on Ebay listed as "Judikins Rinse Away Paper"The image was cut out and the paper placed print side down onto the painted panel, I then applied a hot iron (clothes Iron NOT Soldering iron) to the rear of the paper (I used a layer of regular paper between the iron) set to 'wool' (my IR thermometer suggested the surface of the iron was around 150C) for 2 or 3 minutes until the 'Rinse away paper' had turned slightly brown and discoloured.I allowed the panel to cool and then placed in a dish of water - the rinse away paper turned to mush pretty well straight away I then rubbed the printing with my finger tips until the panel no longer felt slimy.The panel was dried (although I patted with a paper towel this left some fluff on the panel so next time I might just try a hair dryer on low or something or just sit out in the sun? - still pondering this).When the panels were dry I then applied a few light coats of clear enamel spray paint to protect the lettering.The enamel was allowed several hours to dry and then heated (to 50-60C) with a heater for several more hoursthere is still some room for improvement, but the initial results are below.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 08:43:52 am
content: ok just a minor update, the toner does not seem to fuse reliably to bare aluminium - although as this was a print out from yesterday it may be that the printout needs to be transferred promptly rather than any inherent problem with bare aluminium. (My printer is playing up at the moment)

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:06:30 am
content: You need to either scrub the aluminium to roughen the surface, or chemically etch it to make it more adhesive. then you can do the transfer and seal it with some spray lacquer.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:18:38 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 27, 2014, 09:06:30 amThat was what I suspected but since I had some of the print left over and a few scraps of aluminium and was wondering about printing directly on bare aluminium I figured I would try.of course lacquer is not going to adhere reliably without an etch primer of some sort so it would seem this technique does require a painted (matt) surface - although I suspect if I could get a white etch primer (I could only find Grey) it should adhere to that.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:41:19 am
content: Use sodium hydroxide ( caustic soda) to etch the aluminium, it will grow an oxide layer quite fast if you use a stainless steel dish to act as a cathode. A few seconds in the bath and it will have a porous oxide layer on it. Rinse in white vinegar solution to neutralise then rinse in water. When dry it will hold the toner well, and will also hold the lacquer as well.A tablespoon of the chips in a quart of warm water for the alkali, and a tablespoon of white vinegar in a quart for neutralising. Immerse fully in all cases.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:54:11 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 27, 2014, 09:41:19 amok, I will have to try that (probably not get a chance before New years) how noticeable would the oxide layer be? just wondering since the only reason for doing this would be to have a metallic background.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:03:58 am
content: Depends on time in NaOH, a few seconds will strip the existing oxide and grow a new layer, so dip in a few seconds at a time on some scrap aluminium till you get a look you like. A short dip will not be noticed, but will have porous oxide.Can also be used to strip the dye out of coloured sheet selectively, just use a regular photoresist or toner transfer on a sheet and it strips the dye out in the unmasked areas. If you use a strong dye again you can make 2 colour panels by holding the dye in the oxide layer holes.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:16:53 am
content: A method I've used before is to use OHP transparency - print a mirror image so the toner side faces the panel then use an aerosol contact adhesive to stick it to the panel.On the plus side you get full colour & resolution, the down side is it can peel and is quite soft so prone to scuffs & scratches.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:46:58 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 27, 2014, 10:03:58 amyep that sounds worth trying - like an etch primer without the primer.....

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:53:07 am
content: Quote from: nali on December 27, 2014, 10:16:53 amI have tried similar methods, but you really need something that protects the label around the edges to stop it peeling.The method I have suggested here does allow full colour and resolution, maybe not as dark as a silk screen, but it would seem with the right back ground the results appear quite acceptable

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 11:25:18 am
content: Another way is to cut and engrave panels from acrylic glass. There are materials which have a different color on the outside than on the inside, so if the laser removes the top layer, the inner color comes out.There are services likePonoko/orFormulorwhich allow to upload SVGs, select the material, calculate the cost and order online.

author: hamdi.tn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 02:29:23 pm
content: I certainly like the way mike ( mikeselectricstuff ) did it

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 05:49:21 am
content: I had also ordered a pack of "Heat Toner Transfer Paper" off Ebay - less than 1/10th the price of the "Rinse away paper" at $8:55 a pack of 50 A4 sheets against $11:90 for a pack of 5 letter sized sheetsHowever my Laser printer has trouble with this paper (possibly too glossy and/or too thin) and is unable to feed the paper through the printer.I will have to try another printer to see if I can get one that can handle it....

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 07:10:08 am
content: So I guess the old way of laser printing on a full page sticker an covering with the sticky side of a self adhesive lamination sheet is too "old school". Fast and cheap.

author: jetwolfk2
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 08:47:18 am
content: i was thinking of getting a cheap DIY screen printing kit with ink used for metal

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 09:06:07 am
content: Quote from: jetwolfk2 on January 01, 2015, 08:47:18 amI was originally looking at something like that, the screen printing kits are cheap enough but I had memories of mucking about getting photo etching exposure right for PCBes and figured that to do that you really need a decent UV lightbox with a timer etc, etc and I already had a laser printer so figured I would try this.to be honest while my results are quite good, and certainly look almost professional I would expect a silk-screened front panel to be darker/clearer and Silk screening would let you do Light printing on a dark background whereas this way you are limited to darker colours on a lighter background.Quote from: pickle9000 on January 01, 2015, 07:10:08 amI have used that method in the past but this method does look a lot neater, as noted above, not quite as good as Silk screening and it does have limitations but it also does not peel off.....

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 09:13:51 am
content: I have used the good old "Letraset" or an equivalent that my local art store sells, I have different sizes and fonts in black and white and then spray laquer. Costs a bit to buy but then lasts forever.Pretty quick and durable, not commercial quality though.

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 09:59:35 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on January 01, 2015, 09:13:51 amYour Letraset-ing is a lot straighter than mine ever was....

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 03:26:44 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on January 01, 2015, 07:10:08 amYou do need to take care there. You need a printer with a straight through paper path, as the self adhesive backing stands a very good chance of delaminating in a printer which curls the paper, which can often be terminal to the printer as it will jam up the path and often will destroy the gearbox.As well buy sheets with the score lines in line with the feed direction, as then it will not peel in the printer as it is slightly bent during passage.Putting laminate sheets through a printer with a compact paper path ( your modern typical laser these days) will only lead to grief.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 04:12:56 pm
content: For one-off and low volume, I am currently experimenting with self-adhesive matt vinyl printed on an inkjet, then cut with a Silhouette Portrait. This is then placed on top of acrylic cut with a laser cutter. It looks pretty good. A bit too much effort for anything more than low volume, but it gives a reasonable looking result, certainly good enough to show someone who might be interested in taking your product for retail or distribution.The print seems to stay in the vinyl pretty well too without further lamination, although possibly for production you might want to laminate it.The Silhouette Portrait itself is quite good: you design both your legend and the cutout in the same software, and it prints registration marks on the vinyl when you print it in the inkjet printer. You then put the printed vinyl in the Silhouette Portrait, it reads the registration marks, and precisely cuts out the panel for you. There are thousands of tutorial videos online, the only trouble being that they're geared towards a different demographic, that of the craft person.What I haven't figured out yet is how to use the same cut out source for both the laser cutter and the Silhouette, I am sure there's a way to do this without having to lay out the panel twice, but I'm new to this.I found cheap 3D printers really not very good for showing something off. They take ages to print, and the results are rough to say the least, probably not even good enough for a fit check, which is what I originally bought it for.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 05:01:24 pm
content: For my current main project I had to experiment with a few ways of making frontpanels over the past year. The way that works best for me is to design the frontpanel using the software that Schaeffer provideshttp://www.schaeffer-ag.de/en/downloads/front_panel_designer/Then instead of sending them the files I simply print it out on regular paper and laminate it with a cheapo laminator. The lamination is cut to size with a scalpell and hole punches. This I stick onto the already drilled frontpanel using spray glue. The right glue is important, it has to be a very fine spray otherwise you get lumps on the panel or extra glue spills out on the sides. I found this works very wellhttp://www.uhu.com/de/produkte/kreativ-produkte/detail/uhu-spruehkleberpermanent-transparent.html?step=1852.9411764706&cHash=8c6821684fd83c1fe3d5fe916c57f998The Front Panel Designer also allows for a print out of a template with markings for drilling/machining of the panels. This is very handy.In a last step I cover the whole panel with sticky transparent film that is commonly used to cover books with, like this stuff:http://www.herma.de/en/protecting-of-books-and-exercise-book-covers/self-adhesive-film.htmlThis stops the edges of the laminate from peeling off.The photo shows one of the earlier examples using this method.It also works reasonably well for making panels with white letters on a black background, but then it's important that your printer prints large black areas in a homogenous way. Mine doesn't. Haven't experimented with colours yet as I have no colour printer.This method isn't perfect, the major drawback beeing if any liquid gets into the lamination the paper wicks it up and looks ugly afterwards.Robustness is quite good on the other hand as the lamination films are relatively sturdy.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2015, 07:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on January 01, 2015, 07:10:08 amYeh, I second that. I've had great results using Inkscape (Free open source SVG editor) to create the artwork and then colour printing on Avery Heavy Duty Laser Labels. They are super tough polyester, come in white or silver, no need to coat with anything and stick fine on the plastic and stainless steel cases enslosures I've used. Stick on your panel and use it as a drill template too.http://www.avery.co.uk/avery/en_gb/Products/Labels/Labels-for-Protection-%26-Security/Heavy-Duty-Labels

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 07:09:03 am
content: Quote from: david77 on January 01, 2015, 05:01:24 pmTip for that is to sandwich a second copy ( or another panel) before laminating, then cut the edge to give a single sided laminate that the adhesive works better on to hold the paper backing. Saves on the cost of the panel if you are making a few, plus the adhesive will adhere better than to the plastic laminate, which is pretty non reactive with most adhesives, and which tends to peel with time.I have some that I made 30 years ago, which are still legible.

author: Rory
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2015, 07:29:33 am
content: With the toner transfer paper, you can also spray a few coats of clear lacquer over the toner to produce a decal which will float off and easily applies to smooth surfaces. I've had good results from this method to produce dial markings using a frosted plastic disc and on aluminum surfaces. Not necessary to print in reverse, and the lacquer protects the toner.

author: uChip
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 12:35:16 am
content: As sort of a cross between 0xdeadbeef and hamdi.tn I have developed a method for generating a laser engraving file from the Eagle board layout. This makes it easier to ensure everything lines up.The enclosed photo is of a "sampler" project done to show some of front panel elements that are available.The laser cut/engraved pieces are transparent or translucent in spots so you can easily do backlit indicator text or LED/LCD displays that show through the panel.You can check out the details athttps://www.github.com/stdbx/series100.Edit: moved the dot. Punctuation! Bah!- Chip

author: RJFreeman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 01:36:05 am
content: Quote from: uChip on January 08, 2015, 12:35:16 amChip, I get Page not found on that link.RegardsRichard

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 07:23:22 am
content: delete the dot at the end and you'll be fine.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2015, 05:06:34 pm
content: At work, (for low volume runs) we used to use a straight through dot matrix printer with a special carrier to print full colour labels on CDs. I haven't tried it but it might work just as well for panels.

author: devanno
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2015, 09:49:35 pm
content: For those who want to print labels and adhere them... this device (comes in different sizes) may be just the ticket. It's built for "scrapbookers" .. and will take items up to the thickness of a US nickel. What you do is print what your label is to look like, and then pull it through this device... it gets sandwiched between two layers of material. You burnish down around the edges of your label, and pull apart... excess adhesive is pulled away with the top layer and you end up with a label that is now adhesive only on the label backside itself.http://www.amazon.com/Xyron-Create---Sticker-Machine-Assorted/dp/B0001DU6RS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421012284&sr=8-1&keywords=XyronUsing this you could use any kind of opaque label material and quickly adhere it to your project.Another solution (I think mentioned above) is either ink jet or laser waterslide decal paper. You print on it, cut it to size and then use a fixative on it... and apply it like any other decal. Instructions are to print, fix, apply... but I found that if you fix the whole sheet (especially on the ink-jet ones), the water tends to let the excess ink bleed a bit, doing the fixative after trimming the decal closely to size solves that problem, or at least drastically reduces it. One thing to note... light colors need two decals (or more) overlaying to get an opaque lettering result. Once applied, an overcoat of some form of lacquer will help "harden" the result.If you're going to use waterslide decals, the decal backing can cause a light reflective haze where there is no printing. The typical modeler's approach is a good coat of glosscoat to the base, let dry, use a wetting solution (Microsol, I think it is, have a two step product) to clean the surface and help the decal adhere... then soak the decal in distilled water, apply to the surface... as it dries, microsol setting solution will soften the decal and you can prick any bumps with a fine needle to let the air out... when all is dry, another coat of gloss, followed by dullcoat to completely remove the visible film problem. One advantage to this is that decals can go over textured or curved surfaces.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 03:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on December 27, 2014, 11:25:18 amPlease let me know if acrylic glass in general that can be ordered on Formulor has such structure that outside is different from inside or there is some specific brand/material that is shown on the picture above? Also what's about opposite: black outside, white (or any other color) inside?Thanks in advance!

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 05:09:46 pm
content: Huh, I think that I found one black with white core: It' 1.6mm thick under Acrylic GS

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 05:52:45 pm
content: Yep, used that as well (after the silver one with black core was gone), looks great.I recently saw that they now also have some 3mm materials with two colors. There seems to be a silver (and gold) one with black core in the 3mm section.Doesn't fit for me though, as I'd need 2mm. 1.6mm is a bit too thin, but works quite well.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 05:57:57 pm
content: Quote from: pickle9000 on January 01, 2015, 07:10:08 amYes think soThis was printed mirrored on transparent self adhesive polyester sheet for laser printers and attached at the back of 2mm polycarbonate sheet. Artwork was coloured in afterwards with artists acrylic paints on the back of the panel (thus on the toner side of the print). This only works with water based (acrylic) paint, otherwise the toner will bleed.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 06:01:37 pm
content: Hmm, that should go up to 11, it's one louder you know.

author: Pjotr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 06:10:08 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on October 15, 2015, 06:01:37 pmDidn't help that much I found worthwhile

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 07:04:36 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 15, 2015, 05:52:45 pmHi, what engraving "strength" did you use for texts: light, medium or heavy?I'm also wondering does any laser cutting service (hopefully Ponoko/Formulor) offer cutting/milling under some angle to make i.e. countersink on screw holes?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 04:33:25 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on October 16, 2015, 07:04:36 amI always used "heavy". You can have a look at theSVGs I use(d) for ordering.Quote from: prasimix on October 16, 2015, 07:04:36 amFormulor doesn't that for sure and I doubt that any laser cutting service does. There are milling services though which offer stuff like that, e.g.Schaeffer. I toyed with the idea to order there 1st, but it's much more expensive. Actually I liked their "Frontplattendesigner" (front panel designer) quite a lot before I discovered QCad.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 04:39:52 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 16, 2015, 04:33:25 pmExcellent! Many thanks for link. You are using QCad to generate svg instead of Inkscape or similar editor?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 04:56:06 pm
content: Quote from: prasimix on October 16, 2015, 04:39:52 pmI'm using a mixture. I design the panels with QCad, then export it to SVG and do some conversions according to the Formulor conventions (line width, color) in Inkscape.Actually I tried to design a panel in Inkscape but found it to be a pain in the rear for exact design. With QCad it's piece of cake and also tricky stuff like arranging several pieces on one plate is easy.If you check my example, you can see that I arranged three panels on one plate. At least for Formulor, reducing the number/length of lines to be cut also reduces the costs.

author: prasimix
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 05:05:02 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on October 16, 2015, 04:56:06 pmThanks again. I'm still not familiar with Formulor policy, does it mean that more lines generate more costs? Also I still didn't find how much cost shipment.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 05:32:00 pm
content: Regarding the cutting costs: yes every cut and engraving adds some costs. You can upload your SVG and select a material and they tell you what the costs will be.E.g. you can see that the simpler front plate was quite a bit cheaper than the more complex and engraved backside.As the material (181x181mm, black with white core, 1.6mm) costs 6,79 €, you can see that the cutting/engraving costs are pretty relevant.Regarding shipping costs, there is aFAQ page. I'm not quite sure if the prices are correct though.I just received something (acrylic case) last week and paid 5,90€ for shipping but according to this FAQ it should have been 7,90€.