121GW Known issues - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: sijmen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 08:30:16 am
content: Hi,After a long time, I'm looking to get back into electronics, and looking for a decent multimeter, and quite interested in the EEVBlog 121GW. However, I see a massive amount of talk about various issues and some fixes, but its information overload with a lot of noise.Is there an updated list of current known issue that we can review, before committing to buying the meter?Regards,Sijmen.

author: doktor pyta
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 08:52:02 am
content: ...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-issues/

author: exe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 09:07:28 am
content: Quote from: doktor pyta on November 25, 2019, 08:52:02 am42 pages of text.

author: sijmen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 03:58:22 pm
content: Quote from: exe on November 25, 2019, 09:07:28 amYes... not helpful at all. I was hoping for a summary of issues and the firmware fix version.After 2 hours of reading, I learned there were problems with the meter, but mostly it was just noise, and still no way to quickly know what's a known issue and what's been fixed.I've been quite interested in buying the meter, but the end result is I've lost confidence in it because I can't see what's been fixed, and I'm not prepared to troll through endless messages figuring it.@eevblog, can I suggest you add a locked thread with a table or link to a spreadsheet showing all issues (fixed and not fixed) and the fix firmware version number.Regards,Sijmen

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 04:13:39 pm
content: What issues are you concerned with, exactly?There are some video discussions of the firmware updates on the main channel and eevblog2, but besides that and perhaps Dave's posts in the 121GW threads, like this onehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-firmware-details/I don't know if there's a formal changelog available for firmware updates, though it may exist, since there is a formal problem report system.It seems to me like mountains may be being made of mole hills, though, as it's been a perfectly usable meter from the start. If there's a specific problem you think you'll run into, then maybe asking about it will get you a reply beyond wading through the discussions and updates.

author: sijmen
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2019, 11:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on November 25, 2019, 04:13:39 pmSpecifically, the very slow auto ranging speed, especially for Ohms. Its also what I don't know that concerns me.I completely agree with all your other comments. Like many people on this forum, I'm in a development team and I understand development takes time, and community feedback. With that comes a lot of noise, and as I start to read through the noise, this is what I know to be the truth:Rotary switch issueFixedPossible Lead shroud issueFixed or being fixedPossible Leads issueBeing fixedFalse initial Ohm readingsFixed FW2.0Very slow auto ranging issue especially with ohmsNot fixedDatalogging file corruption issuesNot fixedDatalogging missing important date informationNot fixedThe thing is I could be completely wrong as reading dated posts is not the best way to learn the current truth, and generally only leads to frustration and lack of interest. This is why having a singleKnown Issues and Resolutions list, which is visible to all is vital. It helps build trust in the product, and more importantly, confidence in the people behind it... (and hopefully less noise)Fingers crossed, maybe Dave is working on the list, and its coming.Regards,Sijmen.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 12:35:15 am
content: Your point is well taken and your request is not unreasonable, but sometimes what is a problem for one person is not a problem for another. The ruckus that has been made about auto ranging speed for ohms is one such example.Dave recently put out this video to address that very subject. It is up toyouto assess how this might affect your intended use.Personally, It wouldn't cause me too much bother - and if I wanted a really fast response, I'd just fall back on my BM235 ... but, then again, it doesn't offer the same range as the 121GW ... so it's a trade off.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 12:49:47 am
content: I believe joe smith is currently conducting further testing, comparisons and evaluations on the 121GW so his up coming videos might be of interest. He was also taking requests so I asked if he could compare the min/max feature against some other meters as I use this frequently. I would also like to see the auto hold feature compared to others as well but I forgot to ask.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:21:02 am
content: Part of the problem is they have released various versions of hardware and you are not guaranteed to receive the latest updates. A whole problem in of itself. So the rotary switch of the latest hardware may behave different than what was provided from the kick start. Besides the shim, they were also changing the contact design. Lots of variables surrounding the switch.I kept list of everything I saw with the prototype meter. Most of these problems were never mentioned in any of my videos. A lot of it was stupid stuff, like the period measurement being off by 10X. There were lots of problems with the autorange. I had made a video showing the AC+DC mode not being able to lock with the autorange selected. I am happy to say that most of those small problems have been corrected.The prototype was VERY sensitive to static fields. Move your fingers near the buttons and it would read all over the place, even with a 10 ohm resistor attached. While I understand the first meters released did not have a shield in the front, the ones I bought have it and it works much better now.Dave posted how they have fixed the battery springs in the new hardware. They have also integrated the new clamps. Hard to say what effects the new clamps have. The selector switch also no longer requires the shim.The VA mode is still not correct in the manual but it's been documented and is a simple fix.One of my brand new meters could not read a 1M resistor. Again, I attribute this to the switch. After a few cycles, that meter has worked fine ever since. Readinga have also improved on both meters after they were cycled. Still, I don't have much confidence in anything that would act like this out of the box.I am not sure what the data logging problems are. I can tell you that logging with the prototype with it's pre 1.0 firmware had a lot of problems but with the newer firmware, this seems to be sorted out. Well, I logged to the card for about 16 hours of testing the other day and had ZERO problems. That was using firmware from 1.0 to the latest. I have also been logging with the BLE interface. That could use some work but nothing I would call a bug.It bothers me how the meter fails to display the DC portion of a biased AC wave, even when the levels could be hazardous. Dave posted about looking into it.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:23:48 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on November 26, 2019, 12:49:47 amNo problem, I am planning to run these tests in the next few days and will include that feature as well.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 01:57:41 am
content: Wasn't the switch shim issue only the very earliest kickstarter versions? Like first batch production run? I've got number 430 and was a kickstarter backer.... running the current 2.02 firmware now, haven't had any issues with it whatsoever. Admittedly, I haven't tried every feature/range/endurance testing/etc.There's also been videos on the switch issue, the cause and replacement parts required, as well as the autoranging, which I think has been improved on twice now?Comprehensive tests on a current version meter sounds like they'd fulfill all the OP's requests, but I think a lot of the more substantial issues were addressed very early on in the production cycle and effect only the prototypes and first like 100 or 200 meters shipped (and if I remember right, replacement parts were supplied for the switch issues to effected units).

author: gnavigator1007
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:03:46 am
content: I ordered my meter as one of the limited supporter meters before the actual kickstarter. Purchased partly as a curiosity that i wanted to follow the development of, partly to support Dave, and partly because of some of the more unique features of the 121GW. It's been awhile now, so I don't remember too clearly, but I think that batch was delayed and may have been part of the same run as the kickstarter meters in the end. I had always intended to order more meters down the line and there was always the risk that the first would be a dud. After all I wanted to follow development of the meter. The thing that has stopped me, has been the switch. I still haven't experienced the switch problems that resulted in the shim being shipped out to early backers and has apparently remained a part of the design until now. Still don't like it as a solution and never installed mine. Have kept the meter pretty much pristine since aside from basic experimentation with firmware upgrades. I'm much more curious to see how meters with different board versions behave on the various firmware versions against each other. Following Joe's testing closely. Even though his meters are not the latest version, they seem to have the full confidence of Dave/UEi as they are still selling them.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:51:02 am
content: Quote from: sijmen on November 25, 2019, 11:41:39 pmAll of these are "fixed".If the autorange speed still isn't fast enough for people then, well,Certainly don't buy the Keysight because it's slower.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:53:23 am
content: Quote from: gnavigator1007 on November 26, 2019, 02:03:46 amThat's because most people didn't have an issue, it's was a statistical thing. But a shim was shipped just in case people had issues.

author: CDaniel
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 02:15:29 pm
content: False initial ohm reading is still present in v2.02 that has other "new" issues if you read the topicLet's say autorange speed has improved , but still very slow for a good multimeter ( Keysight has 1 slow model , not all are like that )Issues present since forever more or less :Resistance measurement is affected by mains noise , so will jump around if you touch the probes in a "noisy" environment . They improved but not enough , higher ranges that are now more imune to noise that lower rangesThat shield from my experience is doing something but not too much ( I made one for my meter ) since the noise is entering through probes .Small caps driftingOther small issues in firmware that were never been fixed .

author: 1anX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 09:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: sijmen on November 25, 2019, 08:30:16 amI have the 121GW meter and use it occasionally, but prefer and trust my Brymen BM867 over the 121GW. I also have a Fluke 77 that I have used for decades that still performs it functions without any problems. I have lost count of how many cheap Chinese and Taiwanese multimeters I own. I also use a dedicated LCR meter the DE-5000 for measuring critical low values.My advice would be if you want only one meter to rely on that is fast and accurate then buy a Brymen BM867 or the more expensive Brymen BM869.If all you want is good basic functionality then buy the EEVBlog Brymen BM235 which I also bought from Dave's EEVBlog store. I personally would not recommend the 121GW meter, after owning and using it for sometime now all I can say is that I dont like it anywhere near as much as my Brymen and Fluke meters. This is my personal opinion from actual hands on use with these meters, and if you really would like to own the 121GW meter then go ahead and get one, your opinion may differ from mine.

author: ggchab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2019, 09:34:35 am
content: I like my EEVBlog BM235, my most used multimeter. I also like my BM869.I bought the 121GW because it was very promising and as a Dave's product, it could only be perfect or, at least, would get a perfect support (what I believed). It was also a good way to support the EEVBlogBut except at the very beginning, I became a bit disappointed. I have the (wrong?) feeling that Dave is trying to hide details (may be not really important but not for the audience of this forum) just to sell his product. At least, I did not retrieve the behavior he had when he was doing "unbiased reviews" of hardware. At that time, even details like a bit of rust on a Siglent chassis were unacceptable !The 121GW has the brand "EEVBlog" on it but I have the feeling that UEi is taking most of the decisions