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Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:31:13 am
content: Delete Delete Delete

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:23:09 am
content: Your only hope is to get lucky on an ebay sale or other sale. Buy an oscilloscope that is in not working and repair it. It is not as impossible as it seems as there are good descriptions here in this blog and other web sources for fixing the common problems of a number of these scopes. It is often just a matter of cleaning contacts and replacing common parts (electrolytic capacitors, diodes).Actually there are two other options. One is using the audio card in your computer with one of the free software oscilloscopes. It won't do all the things you want to do, and in fact will have real limitations in doing any of it, but the price is right and will get you started in understanding what you can do with an oscilloscope. The other is to find someone willing to give you something. In fact, if you can come pick it up in southern Oregon I can set you up with something.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 05:15:24 am
content: I have one of these and checked it against a Rigol 1054and it is dead on within its specs and is fun to use. Better than a cheap USB Read up on what it can do.https://www.amazon.com/DSO-Coral-112A-DSO112A-Tech/dp/B01BMYS10S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1481433061&sr=8-1&keywords=dso112aIf you get one make sure you get it from JYETech

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 05:25:41 am
content: For a new scope at that price, I think your best bet would be the Hantek 6022be USB scope. Have a look atthis thread. You can find them on eBay for less than $60 USD.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 06:10:18 am
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on December 11, 2016, 03:31:13 amWhat you need to find is a used Analog Discovery. They're often used as required equipment for classes at Uni, such as USask EE204Hence... Kijiji.ca search for Analog Discovery, in Saskatoon . That's where I got mine for CAD $100 :-)

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:38:43 am
content: If you're looking in USB scope territory then the OWON VDS1022 (or for preference the 1022i isolated version if your $100 would stretch that far) will outperform the Hantek 6022be both in performance and usability.www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/Other than that, a lucky second-hand buy, either Analogue or DSO looks like your only option.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:23:32 am
content: Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on December 11, 2016, 03:31:13 amAnalogue scopes are out.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:37:03 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 11, 2016, 11:23:32 amNonsense. What do you think people did before DSOs became ubiquitous? Why do all decent analog scopes have single-shot horizontal modes? You need a proper camera and the knowledge to use it together with the knowledge to use the scope properly.I've bought three decent analog scopes for around 100 CDN each, from Active Surplus on Queen St. in Toronto. Tek 2213a and two Philips units. You can try before you buy there. And nowadays you can get a pair of adequate 100MHz 1x-10x probes for less than 25 dollars on Ebay.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:29:16 pm
content: That's going to depend on the signals involved. Very short events are going to be a challenge ... and if the OP is going to make "a lot" of such samples, it could become very tiring very quickly.Yes, it can be done - but it assumes they will have a camera - and one with adequate facilities for the job.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on December 11, 2016, 11:23:32 amNot quite. There are analoguestoragescopes which are good for both single-shot and slow timebases. Some still workBut slow/single shotisone of the few killer use-cases for DSOsIf the OP can get the educational discount, and 10MHz is suitable for his signals, then the Digilent Analog Discovery is hard to beat - especially since you also get an AWG, VNA, SA, logic generator/analyser thown in.

author: Lee Leduc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:27:28 pm
content: You might want to look at the offerings at Syscomp Design. These may meet your needs.They offer a USB instrument similar to the Analog Discovery, not as fast but less money.For $85 USD,http://www.syscompdesign.com/CircuitGear-Mini_p_29.htmlFor $189 USD,http://www.syscompdesign.com/CGR-201_ep_62-1.html

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:59:33 pm
content: They might do, but their bandwidth and sample rates are low... 2Msps and 40Msps respectively (though at higher bit resolution). The Owon VDS1022 and Sigilent Analog Discovery are both 100Msps.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 03:44:21 pm
content: Analog discovery is 14bit...

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:07:07 pm
content: If you're a YouTube user, be sure to subscribe to the channel, especially since Dave just made a new budget EE lab video. At 1:30 he offers some scope suggestions:

author: edpalmer42
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:12:30 pm
content: Don't forget about shipping costs! They'll kill your $100 budget.Since you're in Toronto, you might be able to score a used scope locally. If not, forget standard analog or digital scopes. Your only option is a USB scope of some sort. That will limit your options, but it's the best you'll be able to afford.My advice is to be patient and watch for a good, used scope locally. I know you want one NOW, but if you're willing to wait for a few months you stand a good chance of getting a really good deal. Remember that a local scope means no shipping costs!Analog or digital is a secondary matter. Look for the features you need at your price point.

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:20:44 pm
content: https://rochester.craigslist.org/sop/5870403296.htmlIt pays to watch Craigslist and Kijiji

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 10:21:36 pm
content: Speaking of Kijij... there's this BK 1474 30Mhz at $85http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/bk-precision-oscilloscope-model-1474-dual-trace-30-mhz/1210769223?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 11:19:51 pm
content: This is the one in Dave's videohttps://www.amazon.com/Owon-VDS1022I-USB-Oscilloscope-Isolation/dp/B00HC4UP52/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1481410049&sr=8-1&keywords=owon+usb+oscilloscope&linkCode=sl1&tag=ee04-20&linkId=11dbe5f434ad351c738cf040a2c780c4but it is over your budget

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 01:07:29 am
content: I've seen working versions of this Chinese kit for about CD$30 and its good enough to see waveforms stably, if you get get it local you are golden. Its similar to Vellemans handheld DSO or the DSO nano. Check around the Pacific Mall in Toronto. Useful to 100kHz analog bandwidth for general education and common PSU designs you mention.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Assembled-DSO138-2-4-TFT-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-DIY-parts-1Msps-probe-M-/152224793929?var=&hash=item23714e0549:m:m0SgGSlnU9TXwT1OOkunbCgUS Sellers:http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=TFT%20Digital%20Oscilloscope%20Kit&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m1684Used retail at A1, great place been there forever, try before you buy, talk to the guys at the storehttp://www.a1parts.com/Used%20Equipment/Equipments.htmEnjoy.Quote from: The_Almighty_Bacon_Lord on December 11, 2016, 03:31:13 am

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:14:26 am
content: Quote from: ez24 on December 11, 2016, 11:19:51 pmThat's the model with USB isolation - nice but not necessary. The Owon VDS1022 without that feature is less than $100.I don't think Dave was pushing that particular budget USB scope - just the idea that a budget USB scope was a reasonable choice for a very small budget.As I posted earlier I think the best bet in that category would be the Hantek 6022be USB scope. There's aa lengthy threadhere about it and you can find them on eBay for less than $60 USD.Of course if one was lucky enough to find an Analog Discovery for less than $100 CAD then that's a great choice but even student pricing is higher than that.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 06:42:11 am
content: I wonder what the OP will get? I remember a similar post and I think the limit was also $100 and the OP ended up getting a Rigol Dz1054

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 11:56:46 am
content: Quote from: mtdoc on December 12, 2016, 06:14:26 amAt this price range it's even more important to check the specs and internal details with a fine tooth comb. For instance the VDS1022 has such luxuries as AC coupling that the Hantek doesn't have () and a rather more realistic 100Msps for it's quoted 25MHz bandwidth rather than 48Msps for the quoted 20MHz on the Hantek. There's much more going on in the Hardware (FPGA controlled with on-board buffering rather than a basic Cypress EZ-USB micro), Hantek quotes 1MB buffer but that's just some arbitrary S/W buffer size they picked on the PC, not device memory, in reality it doesn't have any. This makes it far more reliant on USB performance and s/w polling (detailed in the Hantek thread). Check out the VDS1022 teardown thread and discussion that I linked in reply #5.Sorry to say it, but if you've set yourself a $100 max limit, then you need to squeeze every cent of that limit to get the best capability (= useful life to you) that you can. Either that or just blow your limit out of the water and get a Rigol as ez24 said the other guy did. Either way, please come back put us out of our misery. Edit: Of course I'm talking 'new' here, the second-hand working or fixable 'lucky strike' is still the other viable option.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 03:43:19 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 12, 2016, 11:56:46 amYes, yes , all true. The problem is that the OP explicitly stated anabsolute limit of $100 CADwhich is about $76 USD. The VDS 1022 is more than that. The Hantek isn't.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 07:21:10 pm
content: Damn, so close! - I hadn't specifically been onto ebay.ca to have a look. Sorting by lowest price+shipping there is one at the C$115.99, free shipping from China which is a Buy it Nowor Best Offer. We might not be beaten yet!http://www.ebay.ca/itm/OWON-VDS1022-USB-25MHz-100MS-s-USB-PC-Digital-Storage-Portable-Oscilloscope-/121791724152?hash=item1c5b5a3a78:g:w5QAAOxygPtSt-XoNo connection with the seller but trade_spotting have a pretty good feedback rating.P.S. I have absolutely no idea about whether there are any local customs charges or whatever applied in Canada for shipments from China.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 08:38:44 pm
content: There's this one in Pickering along with a bare bones sig-gen for $125https://ca.letgo.com/en/i/2-electronic-devices_bcd39db6-a080-4526-89e0-e181e24b8788I'd think you could talk the seller down to $100, based on this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/oscilloscope-calibration-issue/Don't know if it's good or bad, but this thing sold with more badges than anyone could imagine!Tenma 72-720, Elenco MO-1251, Hung Chang OS-620, Neotronics OS-620, JDR Model 2000A-1 Electronics, AW Sperry 620C, Tenma 72-320, Dick Smith Q-1240, Aron BS-601, Degem System 112,Ramsey Model 2200, KB Electronics Model 33330, OMRON PAN-8022, Ramsey BS-601

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 09:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 12, 2016, 07:21:10 pmAt the very least you're on the hook for GST / HST. Fortunately most "Free Shipping" from China comes via China Post and when that gets handed over to Canada Post they don't charge much to collect those charges ($10). However, many Chinese sellers are wise to this so they grossly underestimate the value of the item as a courtesy to their customer.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 13, 2016, 12:56:51 pm
content: Check local hamfests. You can get an analog scope for a good price. I got a Tek 2235 for $45 USD that just needed a cleaning and knobs rotated. It could probably use a recapping, but the traces are clean, bright and good enough for my use.

author: hvergelmir
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 11:31:22 am
content: JYEtech has a new model that I'm assembling right now, it's an upgraded version of the 138:http://www.jyetech.com/Products/LcdScope/e150.php

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 12:13:40 pm
content: Unfortunately you are still looking at <100kHz bandwidth. It should be higher given the 1Msps quoted sample rate, but they run into aliasing issues quite quickly. The DSO138 is good value at <$20 but the new one less so at around $35 for similar performance (starting to intrude on 2 channel USB scope teritory).P.S. It would be nice to have some sort of feedback from the OP by now.

author: gildasd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 05:48:43 pm
content: Look up Unis, research institutes, anything electronic etc, in your area.Hand write a letter (not emails) detailing that you are looking for an old scope for learning and becoming the best engineer you can in a few years. Add a picture of yourself soldering and some circuits you already have designed.You must of course volonteer to come fetch it and not be a nuisance.Should be 4 to 5 pages, well laid out and entertaining.A bit of honest grovelling is always worth trying.

author: Cliff Matthews
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2016, 07:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on December 19, 2016, 12:13:40 pmHis last posting was Dec 10th, so it could be possible another Canadian snow bird flew south to a beach somewhere..

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 04:15:15 am
content: I found a very nice Tek 2211 50 MHz scope on ebay for $75. Even though old it had not been used a lot and works great. What I am saying is that you should consider a used unit. If you do make sure you buy a working unit and make sure to send it back if it is not indeed working. Another option is local educational institutions that are upgrading.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2016, 11:11:04 am
content: QuoteWow, that's seriously busy!

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 07:59:10 am
content: Analog Discovery, for CAD$120http://www.kijiji.ca/v-textbooks/saskatoon/analog-discovery-digilent-adm-kit-ee204/1228555071

author: boffin
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 04:19:53 am
content: And another one, $50http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/saskatoon/analog-discovery-module/1229771290?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2017, 04:27:46 am
content: Quote from: boffin on January 13, 2017, 04:19:53 amThat's a steal. If I didn't already own one....

author: jeffh
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:03:20 am
content: i found an Elenco s-1340 oscillascope for 65.00 is it worth the money

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:18:52 am
content: Welcome to the forum jeffh!The answer sort of depends on what kind of electronics you're interested in. For microcontrollers and most digital electronics, analog 'scopes are not very useful.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 12:10:02 pm
content: You might be able to find one of the early Tektronix 22xx series of DSOs for less than $100 but I do not really recommend this because they are old enough to likely require maintenance. I picked up one of my completely working 2230s for $60.Syscomp Design makes a USB DSO for less than $100but its 200kHz bandwidth will not be enough for switching regulators which require more like 10MHz minimum.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 02:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on February 04, 2018, 12:10:02 pmThat seems pretty bad value when you can get dual channel 25MHz 100Msps USB isolated for similar money.Edit: I think if your budget is that low for a scope then all of it should go on maximising the actual scope performance rather than extras.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 03:16:44 pm
content: I second David's recommendation. There are other good brands too. Don't spend too much money and you'll be happier with the purchase.Watch Dave's videos on buying a cheap scope. An invaluable aid to doing this.And I would pair your scope with a sigrok-compatible FX2-based logic analyzer. They can be found for $6 now on ebay. That will let you capture digital signals and analyze their content. Like you could with a high end MSO.That will cover a lot of bases for you.Quote from: David Hess on February 04, 2018, 12:10:02 pm

author: jeffh
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 04:52:49 pm
content: honestly I'm just looking for a cheap analog scope and I've seen these priced pretty high the scope is in excellent condition and right now it will be used for when i build analog eurorack modules. This is my first scope and it will be used for learning purposes. I just didn't know if Elenco was a crap brand or not

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 07:13:50 pm
content: I don't know the Elenco brand personally. It doesn't have dual timebase, which is always nice to have on a full featured analogue scope, but wouldn't be an issue for something like audio.The general purchasing rule of thumb around here seems to be to target a price of $1 per MHz bandwidth. The key issue for a second hand analogue scope is whether you can find a copy of the service manual so you can fix it if needed.Edit: Basic spec:https://www.robotshop.com/media/files/pdf/s-1340-1345-specifications.pdfInstruction Manual:http://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/85-2200.pdfThe maintenance section includes only a block diagram.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2018, 09:59:33 pm
content: I don't know the brand either, but I can't think of any real crap brands from that era. The hallmarks of the more useless 'scopes are little or no triggering, single trace and AC only coupling. This doesn't have any of that.As far as price I think it is OK if it includes probes and works fine. In Canada it would be a bit of a deal.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 03:42:24 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on February 04, 2018, 02:31:01 pmBut it is a great value if you want something which fully supports automatic swept vector analysis producing an amplitude and phase versus frequency plot. This feature makes it worth getting for a beginner in addition to a higher bandwidth oscilloscope. I wish I had had something like this decades ago.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 07:42:22 pm
content: True enough, the vector analysis function would make a nice addition to a lab, I notice that it is 11 bit resolution too (wonder what happened to the other bit). Looking around the Syscomp site, they do some nice stuff.