Lighweight AC line cords? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:01:11 pm
content: Does anyone make really lightweight line cords?I have a fair bit of portable electronic equipment. Most of it uses the standard detachable three conductor line cords. But despite the units consuming maybe 1-2 amps maximum, they all ship with thick, heavy, stiff line cords typically rated for a full 15 amps. When I roll those up for transport they consume a lot more space than required.I'd like to replace those with short (one meter / 3 feet would be more than sufficient in most cases), small diameter, flexible, lightweight line cords. A 3A rating would be more than enough, since most of the time they're powering sub-50W puppy-in-the-python switchers consuming an amp at most.Anyone know of a source for these? Thanks!

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:34:35 pm
content: How would that be safe? Most of the world (including North America) doesn't use fused domestic mains plugs, so plugging such a lightweight cord into a high power appliance would result in overheating and possible fire. Mixups happen, and a moment of inattention on your part e.g. forgetting one, could result in someone who doesn't know better overloading it.The best you can do to save weight and space, except in countries with fused plugs, is to shorten the detachable cord as much as you can tolerate.If I was being cynical, I would say that many of the suppliers in Shenzhen could meet all your stated requirements except flexibility, as they do tend to bulk up the insulation to disguise the grossly undersized conductors!

author: johansen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:39:42 pm
content: Its not safe but you could use thin, xlr cable.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:40:45 pm
content: I guess I'd hope that all our choices aren't dictated by the least intelligent amongst us. It's already possible to buy an under-15A extension cord, which would pose exactly the same risk as what you describe (in fact, technically it would be even riskier due to the net increase in length). If those are available, why not line cords?More: Actually, many extension cords have one plug and multiple outlets. I can easily imagine a typical user seeing "7 amp extension cord" and thinking "Cool, three 7 amp heaters on a single cord!" Obviously we're not protecting folks like that....

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 11:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: johansen on January 30, 2024, 11:39:42 pmThat would not have molded connectors on the ends. It's already possible to build from scratch, I'm hoping for molded cords.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 02:03:09 am
content: I have some really nice thin and light 10A cords but they are 2.5m so too long. 18AWG.They are marked "SVE" (Service Vacuum Elastomer). Probably SE or SJE marking would be good as well?You can also get the Y splitter type if you have a few things to plug in.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:52:09 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on January 30, 2024, 11:34:35 pmBy integrating a fuse into the plug. I don't know if those exist, just saying it's well possible. Fuse can be even of a tiny integrated design, doesn't need to be large user-replaceable like in the UK plug. Then again, people would misuse the cords and then complain how they stop working.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:53:39 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 30, 2024, 11:40:45 pmThose should not be available in the first place; they should be illegal. Something being dangerous and still being allowed is not a good reason to allow more dangerous crap into market. It's harder to ban something once it's widespread.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:22:34 pm
content: I had some IEC cords where the IEC part got loose so I cut the IEC end off and made extension cords out of them using outlet boxes. When I did it, I thought, "Hmm, the copper wire in these seems thin." Later when I put them to use, the cords got hot with only part of a 15 amp load so I ended up getting rid of them for safety.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:26:37 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on January 31, 2024, 08:52:09 amThose do exist, in almost every string of Christmas tree lights. They even include a tiny replacement fuse.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 03:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on January 31, 2024, 08:53:39 amWhere does it end? Should we ban motorcycles? Bicycles? What about drunk driving... which should we ban, cars or liquor? Kitchen knives cut a lot of people. Hand tools. Soldering irons. Most sports have risk. Medicines taken at home instead of professionally administered at a doctor's office.There are a lot of "dangerous" things. It's a big scary world out there. Lightweight line cords aren't even near the top of the list.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 03:32:18 pmMaybe we should restrict "dangerous" to things that can burn your house down while you sleep - Hey that covers those fake imported ebike batteries too!

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:45:28 pm
content: Cigarettes. Candles. Fireplaces. All gas appliances including cooktops, ovens, furnaces, water heaters.Their electric equivalents can also start fires. While you sleep!Ask the airline industry about lithium batteries. You likely have them all over your house.Where does it end?

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:50:10 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 03:32:18 pmIf motorcycles burst randomly in flames when non-technical people use them as intended, and if there is a technical solution which costs like $0.10 to implement, yes, then we should ban motorcycles which lack this obvious protection. This is how civilized first-world societies operate.Nearly every other country has banned non-fused extension cords not rated to the rating of the socket, and we manage just fine, no dystopia as a result. Your strawman is just ridiculous. The importance of fusing is understood pretty much everywhere, and it's mandatory everywhere for a very good reason. You have one weird exception to this rule, and it's causing real issues. You would lose nothing by fixing it. A safety device on a knife, on the other hand, would render it pretty much inoperable. And a knife does not fly and stab you on its own while you sleep anyway.Also I'm pretty sure you have some standards so that a lighter can be recalled if it bursts in flames when used like one uses a lighter.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 04:58:16 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 04:45:28 pm... safety of all of which is regulated. Random result from Google:https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/08/19/2019-17512/performance-requirements-for-residential-gas-furnaces-and-boilers-advance-notice-of-proposed. This is just an example. I don't know how your legislative system works as a whole, but I'm 150% sure there aresomelegal requirements for safety devices, exactly to prevent these devices from killing you while you sleep.Regarding your question, where does it end, well I would like it to end at the point where the residual risk is already small enough, can be clearly communicated, and any further mitigation would be either prohibitively expensive or somehow render the device useless, significantly less energy efficient, hard to use, annoying.Whereexactlyis matter of taste. Some want complete nanny state, others don't, I'm in the latter group. Your taste is colossally bad, though. Following the usual fusing practices in electrical circuits has none of these downsides. You are then "allowed" to illegally bypass the fuses if you so wish, to live "on the edge".

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:04:18 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 04:45:28 pmErr, not leaving cigarettes, candles and unguarded fires burning when you go to bed? Also having appliances that are properly wired, manufactured and serviced?Sure, lots of things contain lithium batteries (not my point - I was talking about the fake Chinese ebikes that we see catching fire in the night while being charged with an equally fake charger). We rely on properly designed and manufactured stuff for our safety while we sleep!Probably a good point for it to end, the other stuff you mentioned are conscious decisions while awake.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:07:17 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on January 31, 2024, 04:50:10 pmWhich socket? Breakered or fused to what amperage? There are 18ga, 16ga, 14ga, and 12ga extension cords all with the same plugs and sockets. Yes, amperage specific sockets do exist but they're rare except in places like hospitals.A motorcycle isn't a straw man at all. They're legal in every country AFAIK, first world or not. There's a reason people joke darkly about their riders being organ donors no matter what kind of helmet they do(n't) wear. Yet you can buy one today and not only risk your own well being but those around you too.Civilized societies accept that life involves risks. We knowingly make risk tradeoffs every day. Many tens of thousands are killed every year in auto accidents yet we keep them around because as a society we accept that the benefit outweighs the risk. So too for all the other examples I posted above. All have demonstrated lethal risks, all are accepted by society.A lightweight line cord doesn't even move the needle.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:12:25 pm
content: Theconceptnay, requirement, that a downstream cable must be appropriately rated for the next upstream protective device is fundamental. If you don't understand that, then you're on the wrong forum.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:29:02 pm
content: ...and yet society seems to leave it to the individual to insure that, at least with extension cords. How are line cords different?The requirement that you not be intoxicated while driving has actual legal penalties for its violation - yet cars don't have breathalyzers. Apparently we trust the typical individual to assess their ability to safely control a multi-ton piece of equipment with no oversight, just reactions after the accident/fatality.The examples are endless. Bottom line: Society accepts lethal risks in many areas. Apparently extension cords are just too convenient to prohibit, along with countless other products which are lethal when misused. I would guess most of those users aren't "professionally qualified" to assess the dangers of most things they buy and use yet they buy and use them every day. I'm with Siwastaja, I don't want a nanny state either.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:31:55 pm
content: Legit manufacturers obey the law, hence you can only get dodgy imported thin line cords. You take these decisions for your kids too - I assume they sleep at night too?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:41:11 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 30, 2024, 11:01:11 pmGetting back to the original request. Shorter IEC cables are readily available: 1 foot, 2 foot, 3 foot. You should find them easily if you just ask your search engine or amazon type site. Also the default amperage for these cables is 10A. The 15A ones are called "heavy duty".If all your equipment is in one spot, get yourself a power strip for the longer run to the outlet and use a bunch of 1 or 2 foot cords.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 05:57:34 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on January 31, 2024, 05:41:11 pmI essentially carry a development environment in my backpack when travelling. Laptop, debuggers, scope(s), specialized probes, soldering equipment, various meters, etc. Depending upon the environment I'm in (hotel room, boat on open water, flying aircraft, etc.) I may use one or several pieces of equipment. I try to use battery operated gear when possible but sometimes the sessions are long enough that batteries won't make it. The savings in volume and weight in having lightweight cords would be substantial when I'm carrying half a dozen or more, even if they're only 1-2 feet long each. I'm not sure swapping the saved line cord volume for a multi-outlet power strip is a net savings. There are always outlets available in these environments, but I'd love to shed the poundage and volume.I apologize that this thread devolved into arguments about safety. That wasn't my intent, I was hoping the responses would be more like "This website offers a variety of line cord options".

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 06:21:35 pm
content: Got to ask why the want for molded? ive had more failures with molded leads than ones ive knocked up myself,plus if a home made leads goes wrong it can easily be repaired instead of being chucked in the scrap bin

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 06:27:34 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 31, 2024, 06:21:35 pmSize. Molded plugs can generally be smaller than those that can be opened for DIY assembly.Size and weight are what I'm seeking to reduce.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 06:35:28 pm
content: Not sure on the laws but I've never seen lighter than 16 on a production extension cord, 18 for a device cord.I do worry about the 18 gauge stuff, especially the cheapo PVC zip cord for lamps, you have to wonder if a 20 amp breaker would trip before the insulation melts if something shorts in a lamp switch/socket or whatever. Sucks that the good rubber HPN zip cord is only really available in #16 that won't fit in a table lamp center tube.I certainly wouldn't go lighter than 18 without fused plugs, and that's what most IEC cords are already.

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 06:50:28 pm
content: So we are talking IEC C13 power cords here, right? Because those are typically only rated for 10A anyway. So that would usually be 3x0.75mm2. And frankly, even if you could make the conductors thinner, there are diminishing returns. The insulation still needs to be mains-rated, so you can't really make that thinner (do NOT use microphone cable for mains voltage like someone suggested). It might also be plugged and unplugged, bent, pulled, stepped on etc reasonably frequently so the jacket needs to be at least somewhat robust. Using something more flexible than standard PVC here would make a pretty big difference though. Maybe someone does "premium" IEC cords with rubber/silicone/textile jackets.

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 07:02:48 pm
content: Quote from: switchabl on January 31, 2024, 06:50:28 pmI do have a couple of line cords with the "figure 8" (C7 two prong) or "mickey mouse" (C5 three prong) device-end connectors and those have quite thin and flexible cords. Just need to find the equivalent for C13.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 07:03:25 pm
content: It's a problem with power cords having national or international safety approvals. Safety standards have tests for abrasion, bending, pull and many more. There are loopholes.It's complicated:https://shop.worldcordsets.com/shopFor line cords (not IEC, not extension) of course the skinniest come from china, rated 2.5A CCC approved, 0.75mm2 60227 IEC53 wire. I've seen them on a Walmart DVD player and Amazon Shark USB charger. Very scary. You wouldn't step on them.https://shop.worldcordsets.com/shop/categories/China-Power-CordsI'm assuming there must be an upstream fuse in chinese plugs? - their ain't in North America.I don't fully understand IEC cords rated 6A despite a 15A branch circuit feed. I find the copper thin but plastic thick. IEC didn't want to have another key yet these cords do get mixed up with 15A cords.I would there are no magical skinny power cords- I would say you can go shorter or more expensive (better plastics) or add a fuse upstream at the plug which is common in other countries.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 07:53:54 pm
content: Maybe something like this would save you some room:https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Power-Splitter-Cord-5-15P/dp/B09B7G9D4Q/

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:13:52 pm
content: The flat cable style can be more flexible.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:28:35 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 30, 2024, 11:01:11 pmYou're not going to find IEC C13 cables with christmas-tree sized wires, but some versions are a lot lighter and flexible than others. Think of vacuum cleaner cords for example.I can't vouch for the flexibility of this cable, but it is the type of thing you are looking for.https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5278

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:35:48 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on January 31, 2024, 05:12:25 pmFundamental perhaps, but not a universal requirement. There are cases where the protective device is allowed to be downstream and the reasons are neither stupid nor ridiculous. The problem with fusing an extension cord is that you would need a very large slow-blow fuse for general purpose use. The fuses in christmas-tree lights are only viable because the exact load type and amount is known.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 08:46:16 pm
content: Quotewouldnt call our bs1362 fuse either large or slow and theirs at least one in almost every standard uk extension lead

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2024, 11:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 07:02:48 pmI told you what to search for, did you bother to try?IEC C320, NEMA5-15P, 18AWG, SJ/SJE/etc.Maybehttps://www.mouser.ca/ProductDetail/Volex/17002A-10-B1?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvXcJVS4l7FP47WUFSNTlbSI%252BgAL0mgzVU%3DQuote from: bdunham7 on January 31, 2024, 08:28:35 pmThis is worth a try for the price alone but SVT won't be quite as flexible as SJE/SJ, at least from the stuff I have here.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 07:18:32 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 05:29:02 pmThis is where your brainfart occurred. You kinda assume the US extension cords are the usual way of business. In reality, in big picture, compared to extension cords everywhere else, or to most other wiring in the US, they are really a weird exception to otherwise very well functioning and safe system with no downsides and only upsides. Which is exactly why this remaining weird artifact should be fixed by legislation. But enjoy your house fires if you think they are such important part of your freedom.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 08:26:01 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 03:32:18 pmThe problem is that the average consumer knows nothing whatsoever about electricity and thus has absolutely no way of judging when such a cord would be safe to use and when it would be dangerous. With many things, the risks are obvious and known to the average consumer. But when it comes to pairing electrical loads to parts… sorry, nope, most people know nothing at all.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 09:22:31 am
content: Dont like C13 cables? Replace the power adaptors with those having integrated mains plugs, or .....

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 09:24:08 am
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on January 31, 2024, 05:29:02 pmFunnily enough, all new cars in the UK & EU are required to have the facility to fit a breathalyser-immobiliser, since 2022. Not sure about the septics, but it'll probably just be a matter of time.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 11:11:33 am
content: The ChiComs vendors VERY stiff thick IEC mains cables with poorly made connectors and thin copper or copper plated steel wires .The BEST thin and flexibvle IECcables are vintage from HP, GenRad, Belden and other USA firms.Some are right angel IEC.Often can recognize as they are gray not black.We have 100sj

author: IDEngineer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 12:07:16 pm
content: Quote from: rcjoy on January 31, 2024, 08:13:52 pmAgreed, but I haven't found any C13's like the one in your photo.

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 12:33:10 pm
content: Over the years I have built myself different types of power cords which do not comply with any standards and which possibly violate the Hague and the Prague conventions but they are for use by me and nobody else. I know what I am doing and I know how to use them safely. I have sometimes spliced several C13 cables to a single Schucko cable. This saves space and outlets in the workbench.I have also modified/rebuilt some connectors to suit my needs. You can heat plastic and mold it and , though it might not look as nice as a commercially built unit, it will work just fine. You can do it with higher point plastic or even with so-called hot glue.Maybe sometimes what I need could be found commercially but it is just quicker and cheaper for me to make it myself. I think the OP's situation is one of these where the easiest solution is to build your own.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 03:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on February 01, 2024, 11:11:33 amI made considerable effort to find IEC cables equivalent to the old Tektronix right angle grey ones and never found anything. They have a little clip molded into the plug which allows the cable to be secured to itself.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 05:37:30 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on February 01, 2024, 11:11:33 amX2. One of the thinnest IEC cords that I have is one that came with an original Apple I-Mac. The jacket is barber pole like pattern of red, green and yellow stripes in a twisted design. But Jon is correct, for a thinner cord look for cords from 1970s and 80s vintage HP and other US TE manufacturers. My advice is to go to a large surplus or scrap electronics place and look through their wire scrap. That's one of the first things that I look at when I go to scrap or surplus place and I've found some very nice power cords and also a lot of scope probes, LA probes and the like.

author: rcjoy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 08:41:56 pm
content: Quote from: IDEngineer on February 01, 2024, 12:07:16 pmAt least one place has them. I agree they are not common.https://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/iec-power-cord-flat-black-6-ft-18-3-ac-cord-plug-to-iec-female-spt-2-spt2-18awg.html