Neoden PnP solenoid valve - exact replacement needed. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: seon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 01:36:02 am
content: Hi folks - My wonderfully supported (re not) Neoden K1830 just crapped out during a PnP run and it seems this solenoid valve has died - leaving nozzle 6 vac tubes open and causing lots of air issues.It has to be this exact unit as it needs to sit along side the other 18 of them on the main PnP head.My interwebz search so far has come up with nothing even close to this shape/design.If anyone can identify this I would be forever grateful!Edit: Added a photo of the PnP head assembly, where they all sit. Bad one is hanging off at the front.Cheers,Seon

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 02:30:45 am
content: I'm curious if anyone can explain all the circuitry on it. Normally I'd expect to just see a back-EMF diode, plus an indicator LED and resistor.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 02:33:43 am
content: Quote from: Kean on November 20, 2022, 02:30:45 amIt could be a circuit to limit the power consumption and prevent excessive temperature rise. Putting a whole bunch of solenoids next to eachother while burning a lot of Watts might start to release smoke real quick.It looks like an odd valve setup though. Typically you see a common rail to provide pressure and have outputs for each valve but in this case the rail is just to mount the valves on.

author: seon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 02:34:45 am
content: So I pulled the bad one and a good one apart to compare, and they both looked the same - no issues with the bad one in comparison, but it was clearly stuck because when I put it back together, it started working again!So, though I am back to having 8 heads working correctly, I have no idea what caused it to get stuck open, so can't discount it happening again.Thankfully Naomi WU has found them on TaoBao and is organising to get me some so I will have them on hand incase this one starts to fail again.Yay for right to repair !SeonUnexpected Maker

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 02:38:57 am
content: @seon Great outcome. Hopefully helpful info for other NeoDen owners.@nctnico Good point. I noticed it says "3/0.3W" on the side - so maybe the circuit fires at higher current and then drops to a lower holding current.

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 03:28:22 am
content: Usually, the valve can be jammed with debris from your air supply. This happens to my HWGC machine in the earlier days before I add more filters into the air supply. Then it no longer happens. And it's such a coincidence that China P&P manufacturer like to use "odd" and "hard to find" valve. Mine too was hard to find but eventually got a bunch from Taobao although HWGC did sent me a boat load of them as a courtesy.

author: seon
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 03:35:07 am
content: I spoke too soon! It just failed again - lasted about 30minsWill try to "lube" it up tomorrow - but I'm done for today - this has taken the wind out of my sails...@48X24X48X unlikely my air supply as I have a dryer/filter on the compressor, then a filter after the receiver, and another on the PnP on the way in... And none of the other valves are exhibiting any issues - there are 19 of them in total - on the PnP head unit.I'll post back once I've lubed this tomorrow and tried again.SeonUnexpected Maker

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 09:59:55 am
content: Vacuum ones normally fail because of dirt in the vacuum side, not the air side. Clean the tubes and the suction head, though likely what you have is a worn spindle from unfiltered debris. Check the filter is not damaged, and if possible, seeing as this is likely the one most used, swap with one that is rarely used.When you get spares keep a load around, and just figure they are consumables, like the filters and the cups.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 10:05:22 am
content: The solenoid plunger was physically stuck in the open position. It could indeed be some debris, but more likely just wear and tear.Hopefully some lubrication will get it going well enough until replacements can arrive.

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2022, 11:35:35 am
content: RE lots of circuitry: I believe some solenoids use a big pulse of current for the initial actuation, but then reduce to a smaller "holding" current once the mechanism has finished moving. This saves power.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2022, 05:15:38 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on November 20, 2022, 10:05:22 amOn my old Philips (Yamaha) P&P machine I used to get sticky valves. It would fail to open the air to the vacuum generator venturi. It was a back breaking deal to lean into the machine and remove tha valve, but then just taking the valve apart and cleaning all the internal parts would get it going again. No idea if your valves can be disassembled. If you can, watch out for incredibly tiny springs, pins and plungers.Jon

author: JURP
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2022, 01:54:24 pm
content: Air Valves - The problem is the square 2-hole.The 10mm pneumatic valve 2/2 with (two) square inlet and outlet is Chinese only.Here is the manufacturer, but unfortunately Chinahttps://www.yldgy.com/yldgy/2022/03/16/miniatureelectromagneticvalve.pdfhttps://www.yldgy.com/product/miniature-electromagnetic-valve/10mm-miniature-solenoid-valve/375-series-direct-acting-miniature-electromagnetic-valve-10mm/Of the major world manufacturers, Emmerson (DO10-MR series) was supposed to produce such a valve, but no longer claims to do so.See page 39-40https://www.emerson.com/documents/automation/catalog-pneumatic-directional-control-valves-aventics-americas-en-8172156.pdfFor conventional valves size 10mm, there is a only 3-hole design.And it certainly doesn't fit a 2-hole.For example: Camozzi, K-linehttp://catalogue.camozzi.com/CATALOGUES/CCC-GENCAT/00153/PDF/ENG.4.1.5.pdfPlease definitely post more of your own experiences with the K1830. This machine looked very good after S1 and seemed like a heavyweight in the P&P field.