Is Segger J-Link worth the money? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 03:11:36 am
content: Having never used a Segger J-link before (currently just using a ST-Link V2 and PIC tools), do they offer much more debug efficiency?From Digikey, looks like between ~$400-800 USD (as I wouldn't need Ethernet.) Then there's the J-Trace version for ~$1300.Do other folks doing this for a living love these things?

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 05:12:55 am
content: Sure, I do use the debugger quite a lot with ARM. I find it a lot faster than monitoring code using printf's etc, each to their own on that.What I'm asking isn't whether using a debugger is useful, but rather is the cost of the Segger tools worth it over using the practically free silicon vendors tools (e.g. ST-Link...)?

author: nano
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 05:45:47 am
content: In my experience it’s worth every cent.The reason for that is that it just works and gets out of your way. Whereas with the ST-Link I had a horrible experience.Besides that SEGGER is fast to support new devices and their free tools are nice.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 06:55:37 am
content: HiYes, they are very good. Far faster and more reliable than the ST-link. Like Nano, also used them for Arm.If you are just a hobbiest, try looking at the Segar web site, they do a student version which is available to hobbiests and is far cheaper. It has some reduced capability, cannot remember what that is but remember that I hardly used it.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:34:25 am
content: Works well but expensive. Been a while since I looked but wouldn't be surprised if there are now cheaper options that work just as well.Note that there are some devboards with on-board J-link, which may be a cheaper way to get one.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:58:09 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 14, 2016, 07:34:25 amThat's interesting. I have an EFM32 board here that has Segger written on it, I just assumed it would have been locked to that device type. Worth a look at least...

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:59:28 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on July 14, 2016, 07:34:25 amlike all nucleo boards with stlink/v2https://www.segger.com/jlink-st-link.htmlwhich is indeed locked to stm32 only but hey, for just 15€

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 08:55:08 am
content: At the end of the day though, a large part of the appeal of the Segger tools is the same tools work with everything (ARM that is). Having something node locked, and not a "finished product" ends up wasting time in the long run.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:06:30 am
content: There is also the Segger J-Link EDU if you'd need one at home.The Keil ULink is a similar device, except it has Keil on it and only works with Keil.

author: andersm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 09:23:34 am
content: Its big advantage is that it's supported by a lot of commercial IDEs, if that's important to you. If not, then an ST-Link or basic FTDI dongle will probably serve you just as well. In addition to ARM, the J-Link also supports Microchip's PIC32s, Renesas' RX, and SiLabs' EFM8 and C8051 series.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 10:42:42 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on July 14, 2016, 09:06:30 amYeah this is for commercial use, so no edu/non-commercial or cloned stuff.

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 11:01:48 am
content: HiI am not advocating it in any way (in fact I strongly discourage anybody from going down ANY route that involves Eclipse and embedded work - it is truely SHIT) but CooCox supports some kind of open source debugger :http://www.coocox.org/hardware.htmlThe last time I tried to get a cheap debugger (I think it was Olimex thing) spent a whole day and could not get the stupid thing to work.The J-Link just plugs in, great support from all the development tools and just lets you get on and do what you want to do. Have a look at Wikipedia if you truely want to look around :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ARM_Cortex-M_development_toolsThe open source one I was thinking of is the OpenOCD - never used it myself. I read a few forum threads about it. All to do with 'How do I get it to work' - put me right off. The whole Linux/want to fiddle with things just puts me off.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 11:12:21 am
content: I remember being so frustrated with avr isp clones and drivers and the software not working, I payed €50 for the atmel MKII one day shipping. Best purchase ever. Yet now I'm using ARM and the thing is eating dust.Until I smoked it due to lab power supply tranformer isolation failure.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 11:18:18 am
content: QuoteThe latest jlink supports far more debugging functionalities than the st-link. But whether you will find such functionalities useful / critical / valuable is something no one can answer for you.If you want to test drive jlink, you can flash certain versions of stlink into a jlink-ob (a limited version jlink) or to flash it back.With that said, I would hold off buying jlink (v9) and wait for v10 -> it is just around the corner now.On the other hand, if you just work on stm32, st-link isn't bad, given how inexpensive it is.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 12:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: Harvs on July 14, 2016, 07:58:09 am+1I'm not sure about all EFM32 boards, but on the Giant Gecko board you can use the SimplicityStudio to redirect onboard Jlink JTAG to offboard, and potentially use it for any target.Nevertheless it was easier for me to use J-link EDU with OpenOCD as a JTAG IN; because it was properly recognized.Personally I find J-link one of the nicest debuggers. In IAR and Keil you also have unlimited (flash) breakpoints, which is convenient when debugging on large projects or older devices. I'm not sure if this supported in any other toolchains.

author: andyturk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 02:32:00 pm
content: The EDU version of J-Link is a "no brainer" at $60 USD. Buy one and try it out.I've used various J-Links on commercial projects and like the consistency that SEGGER provides. They have their own gdb server which lets me debug with a GNU toolchain, they've got drivers for Mac/Win/Linux (I'm on a mac), and they provide other goodies like the RTT stuff, which can be pretty handy.Their support team is pretty responsive too. It feels like a small-ish company where you can have a conversation directly with one of the developers. The SEGGER documentation could be more polished though.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 12:12:42 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on July 14, 2016, 11:18:18 amDidn't know about flashing the ST-Link. I'll give that a go on a disco board and have a play with it.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 05:17:41 am
content: I've used a JLink pro with Keil and a cheap Wireless AP thingy to create a wireless debugger for a pov display.Works plug&play with keil.

author: photon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 07:39:47 am
content: Quote from: andyturk on July 14, 2016, 02:32:00 pmThe Segger EDU was discussed here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/segger-j-link-edu-or-j-link-clone-which-one-would-you-get/msg285748/#msg285748

author: Sal Ammoniac
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 02:32:09 pm
content: If you were using NXP LPC parts, then a viable option would be an LPC-Link2. You can download firmware from the Segger site that will turn this $20 debugger into a J-Link compatible. I have several of them (I use them with LPC-4357 boards) and I find them to be just as fast and reliable as my Segger J-Links.

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 03:31:35 pm
content: Yes.The JLink has been the most solid programmer/debugger I've ever used.Their software, drivers, hardware is phenomenal, and I've done some STUPID stuff on my part - it keeps chugging along.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2016, 10:18:43 pm
content: The Segger people are smart and do many things right. The JLINK can be used on so many devices that truly one pod may be all you ever need. The JLINK-EDU is a no brainer if you are a hobbyist, and if you are commercial, then the cost of a regular unit at $300+ is not too bad either.I do a lot of software prototyping on the ST-Nucleo, and since they have the ST-LINK/V2 onboard, that's what I use there, but otherwise, the JLINK comes out. Much faster too. (I use our own debugger so it does not matter what pod sits underneath).

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2016, 12:03:23 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on July 14, 2016, 07:59:28 amThe good news is that ST-link hardware is at throw-away cost levels, either the discrete ebay clones or one you have clipped off of a nucleo. There are however additional license restrictions to j-link:"The firmware is for use with evaluation boards only. It is not for use with custom hardware.The firmware may only be used for development and/or evaluation purposes. It may not be used for production purposes."Which might dissuade some honest people

author: mac.6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 10:05:34 am
content: I really like my Segger J-Link (got ultra+ and trace one is on its way):- It's reasonably priced, even trace enabled ones are cheap compared to Lauterbach tools! EDU is a steal for student/hobbyist (I will probably purchase one for home use).- RTT: this is probably one of the most useful tool, it's serial debug on steroid+EPO.- SystemViewer is nice also for RTOS users. Integration is easy and already done on FreeRTOS for example (done the v9 integration myself based on their v8.3 one)- Most of their tools work on Linux also.- Ozone is a nice standalone debugger, even if it has it squirks (file content handling based on extension? come on guys, it's 2016!). It also requires pricer JLink pro to have a valid licence.- Some hardware vendor ships integrated jtags on their demo board that are j-link or upgradable to j-link (NXP Kinetis for example).- J-Link is fast, but I found some stranges hickups using RTT and Kinetis Freedom boards on some setups. Otherwise is is very stable for day to day use.

author: nano
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 04:44:39 pm
content: Quote from: mac.6 on July 19, 2016, 10:05:34 amWould you mind sharing your V9 code?I recently switched to FreeRTOS and noticed they don’t have official support yet.

author: mac.6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 05:17:08 pm
content: Sorry I can't, it's company work. But it's quite trivial as I started from segger code and I just port the patch they give to v9.You can also look at mcuoneclipse processor expert code, but it is really tied to Freescale MCU and need some cleaning.

author: nano
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 19, 2016, 06:17:07 pm
content: No worries!I’m going port the few lines myself then.

author: Harvs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2016, 01:46:25 am
content: I've some brief testing with a F4 Disco board swapping out the ST-link firmware for the Segger. First impressions are it's a lot faster in line stepping (I need to verify this though.)I'm using Attolic Truestudio, to date I haven't seen enough benefit in going to the paid version. Using a Segger does unlock some useful features in the debugger with the subscription version.