34461A Problem after updating to Firmware  A_02_09 behavior in continuity test - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 10:02:08 am
content: 34461A Problem after updating to Firmware A_02_09 changing behavior in continuity test, a crazy beeper.The continuity is sounding like morse signals. Having a good contact the beeper is not stable and sometimes it gets crazy.Please hear it.Firmware A_02_09

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 11:20:36 am
content: Like we discussed in the other thread, this is a problem with the 34461A/34460A but not with the 34465A/34470AAll my 34461A's are showing the same way but my 34470A does not have this problem.You probably have to wait for the next FW update.Keysight is aware of this problem.

author: H.O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2015, 01:47:42 pm
content: My god, the mighty Keysight company can't even get a continuity buzzer working correctly, I wonder what else they've messed up in there and how the hell that thing ever got passed QC.... But I'm sure, being Keysight, they get some slack from what whould otherwise be another online slaughter....Sorry, couldn't resist, it's of course written tongue in cheek but it does, again, goes to show not ONLY the Chinese "piece of crap manufacturers" makes mistakes.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 06:26:53 pm
content: I think without our knowledge, we are beta testers, finding-correcting the bugs.

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 06:54:41 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 11, 2015, 11:20:36 amI have just tried this on both my 34461A and my 34470A, and the same thing happens - the sound is broken, although not as bad as in the youtube video. If keysight is aware they will be fixing it, hopefully it will come high up on their priorities (and not like the histogram bug which took over a year from reporting to the fix being released). my bad - I've just checked with some clip probes and the 70A is fine, but the 61A has a broken sound. I'm guessing my frequently used probes are not in the cleanest possible state.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:08:05 pm
content: Quote from: 6thimage on October 13, 2015, 06:54:41 pmI was just worried, when I read the first part of your reply.My 34470A is really working great in this aspect.But I have three of the 34461A's and they are all showing this very same bug, one of them even worse than in the video clip above.Yes, hopefully they will fix this one together with the other problems.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:29:40 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on October 14, 2015, 02:08:05 pmThe beep on my 34465A is also not perfectly continuous, there is a very short, periodical interruption audible.I assume, 34465A and 470A should behave exactly the same, as the FW & HW are identical, they only run in different modes (6,5 vs. 7,5 digits)Anyhow, Keysight told me that a new FW will be available soon, within a few days or weeks, addressing the +3ppm shift in 100V/1kV range, depending on impedance selection.FrankPS: My 34465A has FW 2.09!

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:47:12 pm
content: If and when, they will fix this bug. What we will find next.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:52:10 pm
content: Firmware 1.09 didn’t have the bug it came up in A_02_09.Now I’m just thinking, If they correct this maybe they will mess something else and so on.They can pay us to be beta testers.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 03:39:13 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on October 14, 2015, 02:29:40 pmI checked my 34465A when this bug was first mentioned. I'm sure it too had a very short, barely perceptible discontinuity in the beep.Now I'm not so sure, though, as it's working fine. The beep is absolutely continuous. F/w version A.02.08.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 11:36:55 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on October 14, 2015, 03:39:13 pmAlthough a 34461A problem. Try to update to A_02_09 and see.

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 03:26:22 pm
content: I just finished testing different firmware, 1.10 dosn't have this error but 2.08 and 2.09 do on my 34461A. So it's good I have 10 or more instruments who has a working continuity tester. Do anyone take bets on when the 2.10 FW will be released and what new and exiting errors it brings?Johan-Fredrik

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 06:04:41 pm
content: Maybe on Christmas like a gift.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 06:09:10 pm
content: OMG in the forum underneath this topic, is the Siglent DMM SDM3055 with software problems too.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 08:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: sotos on October 15, 2015, 11:36:55 amI hope you'll forgive me for not "upgrading" my working meter with firmware that may introduce a problem... sorry!

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 03:33:40 am
content: I have a 34461A and a 34465A (I know, I know...).They are both on 2.09The 34461A has the described issue (irregular pulsing continuity beep) while the 34465A has a continuous beep.I did also notice that while the beep is going, there is an irregular tic-tic-tic going on the 34461A and the same tic-tic-tic on the 34465A, but regular. Not sure if it's related to the issue. It sounds like a faint relay click, but it probably isn't. Probably just the buzzer being pulsed, gapless on the 34465A and with gaps on the 34461A.Note that while both my DMMs are on 2.09, they actually show slightly different firmware versions on the About screen:34461A: A.02.09-02.37-02.09-00.49-01-0134465A: A.02.09-02.37-02.09-00.49-02-01Not sure if it is a firmware difference. I am not sure if I updated both with the same file.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 05:01:50 am
content: Quote from: sotos on October 15, 2015, 06:09:10 pmFantastic!Aren't there people who check for problems like this? Especially when an often-used feature like continuity is involved...

author: LA7SJA
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 08:37:11 am
content: For me, using a 34461A to check for continuty becomes a little bit like using the crown jewels in a kindergarten party. But that's just me!I use my homemade latched audio ohm to pitch meter for almost all continuty testing (I can hear if the bus is equaly terminated whitout looking up from the PCB). And sweeping up an down a power-rail and hearing rising/lowering pitch as I get nearer and pass the short (Ithashad a display but I never look at it since a few segments are missing).Johan-Fredrik

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 09:03:04 am
content: I shouldn't lose any sleep over it. I use my 34465A for checking if batteries are fresh or used. I've spent the whole week using my 1GHz scope to decode RS232 and to look at audio signals.I didn't buy those toolsjustto do those things, of course, but they are the instruments that have a permanent space on my desk. They're just "there". Why use something else?

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 11:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on October 16, 2015, 03:33:40 amNo the firmware is the same, that number represents the measurement board revision - the version number is explained in the section about the *idn? command (page 270 of the current (rev 3) manual). Just for completeness, the version format ish.ff.ff-pp.pp-mm.mm-gg.gg-bb-fpwhere,h - Hardware revisionff.ff - Main firmware revisionpp.pp - Front panel firmware revisionmm.mm - Measurement board firmware revisiongg.gg - Measurement board FPGA revisionbb - Measurement board revisionfp - Front panel board revisionand it is your bb value that is differentI suspect that the difference is due to the measurement board changing, with the newer firmware using a lower threshold value, which doesn't work as well for the older revision boards. You can guarantee that they develop the firmware on the highest model (i.e. the 34470A) and just change the model number to cap the features - I doubt they have got all their firmware engineers with 4 multimeters stacked on their desk.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 11:55:08 am
content: Quote from: LA7SJA on October 15, 2015, 03:26:22 pmI'll take the bet.Last night, Jim Durr has sent me the preliminary 2.10.I'll test it later this day. Maybe this regular ticking in the continuity is gone, also.Frank

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 02:30:59 pm
content: Quote from: Dr. Frank on October 17, 2015, 11:55:08 amIt will indeed be interesting what was fixed.Did you get a preliminary fix-list with the FW v2.10?

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2015, 02:57:30 pm
content: Hi HighVoltage,nope, it was just the FW file, nothing else.It fixed the +3ppm bug.Continuity on 34465A still has that faint "tic tic tic..." superposition on an otherwise continuous beep.Frank

author: rosbuitre
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 01:34:59 pm
content: More than 6 months and still they not fixed the problem of the continuity test in the 34461A

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 04:42:04 pm
content: Indeed. We know they have addressed and supposedly fixed the problem in the latest release but it didn't come out when predicted so something in testing failed. Of course one has to wonder just what kind of testing they do when they didn't even notice the continuity issue to begin with.

author: sotos
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 06:36:55 pm
content: Maybe they fixed that and created a problem somewhere else.

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2016, 08:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on April 20, 2016, 04:42:04 pmThe testing is likely to be all automated (i.e. unit tests), but as it takes several week for the firmware to go through testing, I'm guessing they might have a few units that they use to verify the performance (to make sure an update doesn't invalidate the specifications). I think the bug with the continuity was missed as it couldn't be detected through automated testing, and I seriously doubt they have someone who sits in front of a unit of each model and checks the features manually. But it is very disappointing that a new version of the firmware hasn't been released - let's hope it doesn't take them as long as it did to fix the histogram update bug (which was roughly a year).