Hacking the Siglent 2k+ Cooling System and Mount - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 08:37:08 pm
content: Hi Fellas.Like many others, I'm looking with some interest at the 2K+ now that there is that promotion in place. I'd have preferred a dead-silent, fanless USB scope, but a 350 MHz, four channels USB scope with all those options (among which a well-implemented FRA) is nowhere to find.. You have to shell out 3X that price.The scope has a 92mm fan which I believe is the same as the SDS5K's: acoustically bearable.One thing that I don't like at all, however, is that the scope has a negative pressure cooling system. That is, the fan blows the air OUT of the scope's back (picture below), and fresh air is suckled in from the side vents. These vents are vitually impossible to filter.I have opened a lot of desktop and laptop computers whose cooling systems were built with the same logic, and I can assure that even in clean environments, the interior will become a nightmare of dust and grime within just a few months. This leads to a number of problems, for example the heatsinks' efficiency would be greatly reduced.I don't want this to happen, so I want to to invert the airflow, turning the interior of the scope into a positive pressure room. The fan will blow fresh air from the back, and it will exit the scope from the lateral vents. A standard 92mm/100mm demciflex fine-mesh filter will keep ~>95% of the shit out of the scope, and it's easy to clean. I do always this with my computers, and it works flawlessly.If you look at the pictures below (Dave's teardown), you will notice that the fan would blow directly upon the major heatsinks, so such a solution would actually be beneficial for keeping the temperatures in check even during southern Italy's hot summer days.The only thing I'm worried about are the electrolytic capacitors on the left. I don't know their temperature rating (do you??), but with the airflow in its default configuration, they are struck by fresh air as soon as it enters the scope. In my positive-pressure config, however, they will get air which will be slightly warmer, having hit the motherboard before hitting them..What do you think??P.S.: Another thing to note is that the scope's stock fan is a 1600 rpm (@12V), 22 dB fan. The standard Noctua 92mm fan is rated for 17 dB at 1600 rpm (9V with the included resistor). As such, the Noctua produces a slightly inferior airflow, but a superior static pressure. Or, one can run the Noctua at 2000 rpm (without the resistor), having the same level of noise as the stock fan (22 dB) but with greatly superior airflow and pressure.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 08:46:57 pm
content: Now that I look at the pictures more attentively, I'm noticing another thing.. Due to the positioning of the motherboard AND the side vents, a lot of air (I think maybe the majority of it) will get *under* the motherboard itself. What's in there, apart from the screen?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 08:53:01 pm
content: I've had mine for a year and there's no discernable dust inside. I have cat and there is dust on the outside, so I don't have a sterile environment. The scope really doesn't get warm, the only part that puts off any discernable heat is the screen backlight. I doubt any of the capacitors or heat-sinked parts are running more than a few degrees over ambient. The stock fan on mine moves very little air, so I wonder if it is already slowed down. It seems pretty quiet to me as well, I can just barely hear it from 10 feet away if there is no other noise around.I suspect you can do whatever you want and it will be fine.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 09:03:18 pm
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on November 03, 2022, 08:53:01 pmWhat you report about the temps is reassuring. And yes, if the fan is the same as the SDS5K's one, it's reasonably silent (although not dead quiet). Maybe swapping it with a Noctua won't be necessary.But I have to turn it upside down and filter the air intake, otherwise I won't be able to sleep at night. I'm a bit obsessive about such things.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 09:13:47 pm
content: Obviously...Some things:This is not the fan from the 5000X, it´s fan is controlled - The one from the 2000X+ not.The fan is not really loud but in very calm enviroment it´s hearable.I´ve owned the scope 2yrs and in this time not a single dust crumb were "landed" inside.Nevertheless I´ve changed the fan for a more silent one, link/pics following.EDIT:Pic of the final assembly, link to it you can find in the threadlist in my signature...,

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 10:46:28 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2022, 09:13:47 pmThanks!But.. That not a single dust clog is to be found inside the case after two years is.. Uh.. I don't know how to put it. Unlikely?Tell me one thing. You are a two-years user of that scope. You also own a whole lot of other scopes to compare with, among which the semi-mythical 2K-HDAre you satisfied with the 2K+?Thanks!

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 10:57:08 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2022, 09:13:47 pmMartin, please tell me a couple things..1a. Where did you buy the fan controller?1b. Part #?1c. How did you stick it to the metal plate?2. I want to drill four holes in the plastic back chassis so to hang the scope on a VESA arm. Did you happen to notice how much space remains between the plastic back and the metal plate? If it's just like 1mm, the heads of the screws won't fit...Thanks!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 11:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: balnazzar on November 03, 2022, 10:46:28 pmMaximum satisfied - I´ve sold it only for having the HD, and this I only want to have it for the 12 bit, nothing else.I´m convinced in such manner, that I bought a couple of the SDS2k+ for the company I work for.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 11:03:39 pm
content: QuoteA) amazonB) will followC) drill holes into it, then use nylon screws/nuts/washers for maximum isolation.QuotePuuuh...didn´t have it in mind actually, but I took more photos as I´d modified the fan thing, must have a look at it.BTW, there are VESA adaptors for monitors which didn´t got VESA mounting holes...

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 11:15:40 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2022, 11:03:39 pmThanksQuote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2022, 11:03:39 pmYes. Considered. But they are either adhesive (I wouldn't trust it), or of the type in the pictures below: they are made to accommodate narrower stuff (max ~4-5cm thick). The scope is thicker.Another option would be a VESA "laptop" plate. But I'm fairly convinced that on the first occasion that my hand gets caught in a cable, the scope will hit the floor...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 11:18:29 pm
content: Actually for the HD I´ve looked for a Vesa similar thing, maybe the next weekend I can show results - when it will fit without drilling additional holes in the scope housing ( lost of warranty !!!!)EDIT:your 2nd pic, exactly mine...

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2022, 11:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 03, 2022, 11:18:29 pmThanks, if you'd post your work on this, it will be incredibly helpful...!Maybe I can venture a conjecture...The sticks that actually hold the monitor are just kind of some screws bolts, say M5 (picture below). One could just buy longer M5 bolts! But then there is the problem with the torque: longer bolts, more torque. But then, in this original configuration the contraption is certified for 8kg, while the scopes weighs less than that. It could hold.But if you concocted a more elegant solution, please inform us

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 02:40:05 am
content: Quote from: balnazzar on November 03, 2022, 11:15:40 pmJust combine the two solutions. Use the shelf/plate adapter and a good amount of double sided tape in select spots.

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 05:51:03 am
content: I'd think that zip ties might be helpful too.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 11:29:12 am
content: Uh, it might start to become a bit aesthetically unpleasing...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2022, 09:45:54 pm
content: Quote from: balnazzar on November 03, 2022, 11:31:11 pmI guess it´s M6 and I´ve ordered 120mm long screws, should arrive tomorrow..Just for testing, it wasn´t a final solution because of the airflow.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 12:02:20 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 04, 2022, 09:45:54 pmIt's very interesting... I think the airflow will not be impeded (if the vesa segments obstruct the fan exhaust, just use a rubber spacer, 1 cm will be sufficient...).I'm more concernet about how firmly the locking will actually be. I'll stay tuned with you

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 04:53:15 pm
content: QuoteToo short, 140mm would be better or much better is to forget this thing because see pic 2.But I have another idea and the purchase of the non-vesa adaptor was not useless...

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 08:04:54 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 05, 2022, 04:53:15 pmI think you can do it with 140mm crews, and rotating the holder a bit will solve the problem with thecovered button.OTOH, with screws so long, I'm not sure the whole contraption can manage the torque applied upon it..Please tell me about the other idea, curiosity is eating me alive.Also, see this (but it wouldn't work for the 2000X+ because it has a skewed edge..):https://www.amazon.it/Adattatore-supporti-montaggio-professionale-Office-VESAPLUS/dp/B078NBQFQ9/ref=sr_1_13?__mk_it_IT=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=2EY5JV5KMSHR1&keywords=non%2Bvesa%2Badapter&qid=1667678792&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjM1IiwicXNhIjoiMi43NCIsInFzcCI6IjEuNzIifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=non%2Bvesa%2Badapte%2Caps%2C96&sr=8-13&th=1

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 08:30:48 pm
content: Actually I´m designing a backplate for the HD scope, then for the X+...Will post the finished drawings here then.Martin

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 09:44:35 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 05, 2022, 08:30:48 pmThat sound good! But how will the backplate be attached to the scope(s)?

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 09:51:38 pm
content: It´s relative simple, by exchanging some of the existing backplate screws against longer ones.First step is to determine the size of the "backplate adaptor", then determine the hole positions for the screws.Then they´re two possibilities, making a simple backplate with some rubbertape between the plate and the backside of the scope or.....make it "3d", I´ll show later what that means.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 11:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 05, 2022, 09:51:38 pmMhh.. It can be done, once the length of the screws is established. BUT, be aware of the following possible complications:1. Establishing the exact length for the replacement is not easy (but doable).2. We can't know for sure the threading parameters of the screws (see last attached pic if you are unfamiliar with the English terms).3. It's much easier to do with the HD than with the X+ (first and second pics) due to hole positioning.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2022, 11:27:27 pm
content: QuoteIt is...Lenght of the original screw plus needed length "X".QuoteTrue but the scope are not heavy ones, fixing on minimum 2 screwholes should be possible.

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2022, 01:27:49 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 05, 2022, 11:27:27 pmYes. Or buy another vesa kit like the one you have and use 2 additional bars to make "T" bars...The threading still worries me. It's easy to buy a screw with slightly different threading and strip the scope's female rivets. Mh, if you have means to measure the threading, please inform me. Thanks!

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2022, 09:58:00 pm
content: I´ve finished the backplate adaptor for the 2K+ HD, adding mounting holes for VESA 100x100 and 75x75.With this adaptor plate, you can mount your HD scope on normal VESA monitor holders.My first thought to make it more "3d" I´ve sacrifice it for easier assembling.Instead you can use plastic distance rings between plate and scope.Lenght of the needed screws is original length plus thickness of the plate plus thickness of the distance ring.That´s all...I´ll test my patience to wait until next week when I´m at work again and make the plate there - Or order it online somewhere...Martin

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 12:06:30 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 07, 2022, 09:58:00 pmJob well done, Martin!The plate looks OK, and it will not be difficult to estimate the length of the screws. Still, there is thethreadingproblem for the screws themselves.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2022, 10:08:53 pm
content: I must confess I have problems to understand the threading thing...

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 02:02:55 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 08, 2022, 10:08:53 pmThe threading is the part of the screw that has that spiraling pattern carved in. It's what makes it a screw, after all.The threading can be different on an aftermarket screw with respect to the original one. If that's the case, the female rivets on the scope will be stripped. It would be very unpleasant.On the other hand, most (but not all) "M" screws have kind of a standard threading. It's tricky, since it's very difficult to know if you are stripping the female housing until you actually strip it.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 07:04:14 am
content: Quote from: balnazzar on November 09, 2022, 02:02:55 amAhem, threads are VERY standardized.. M3 metric thread is same in the whole world. Same with imperial ones.. machine threads should go in with very little force until end..

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2022, 10:43:14 am
content: Exactly this, when siglent uses M3x10 screws for example, there is no problem to exchange them with M3x12...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2022, 09:50:01 pm
content: Checking the dimensions with a paper dummy...Seems to fit.Next week follows the real one, first made with alloy.If everything is OK, I´ll think about to transfer it in data for 3-d printing.Same with SDS2000X+.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 12:02:49 am
content: Martin,an advice: as you can see screws are inset inside plastic cover. That inside part is being pushed by screw head against backing plate in the scope. If you screw through the plate , you will be exerting pressure to the outside of cover. I would put a washer or two (scheibe) in a hole between cover and plate to make sure plate presses against the the same surface screw head was pressing. And put something soft between cover and plate so it compresses nicely. It will also work as vibration dampener...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 12:10:56 am
content: Thank you Sinisa,But this is clear to me since I´m working in a company with own mechanical construction section..Plus I do not want to do any harm to the case of the scope.So distance bushes and washers will be in plastic/nylon, rubbertape inbetween plate and case, and so on.I´ll show the results when finishing.Martin

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 12:32:23 am
content: Yes I should have known that you would.But no harm in being safe..

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 10:45:26 pm
content: Many aspects to consider. And I don't run a mechanical construction company.Maybe I should settle for:1. Installing the Noctua with reversed filtered airflow.2. Just hang the scope to a vesa arm using its very carrying handle.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2022, 11:03:42 pm
content: "Long time ago" there was a user here who had created a cooling solution for his rigol mso5000:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2544018/#msg2544018https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2548875/#msg2548875Quote

author: balnazzar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 01:40:58 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 12, 2022, 11:03:42 pmA bit roughThese are cases where a 3D printer would come in handy!

author: BillyO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2022, 03:12:56 am
content: Being nearly deaf has it's upside. I can be in my lab with all the equipment going and just hear a pleasant "whooosh".As long as I don't have my hearing aids in .. that is.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2023, 10:08:48 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on November 11, 2022, 09:50:01 pmThat was too optimistic...Next weekend I´ll try assemble it on the scope.

author: DavidOrDave
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 20, 2023, 01:20:03 am
content: Greetings. Regarding the negative vs. positive air pressure and air filtration...I have a SDS2104X plus that I got at the promotional price, and I too would like the scope not to become dusty inside. My lab tends to be dusty. But I'm not ready to crack the seal on the scope to reverse/replace the fan. Someday.Meanwhile, there are only three main openings that draw air. So, I got some inexpensive air conditioner filter foam. It's 1/4" thick and a charcoal grey color and a good match for the back enclosure of the scope. I simply cut a couple of strips for the left/right vent, and one for the rectangular opening near the rear connectors. I used narrow strips of foam mounting tape to hold these in place over the air inlets. I barely notice them and it doesn't bother me when I do - knowing that they're catching dust. And, should I decide later that they're ugly or something, I can easily remove them. Seems like a good improvement for now. Not rocket science, really.