Tips for tackling a new employer's EDA tool? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bitbanger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 02:21:49 am
content: Long time Altium user, first time caller.Maybe tips for coping is the right phrase... Started a new job last year with an employer who uses Cadence Allegro EDM, (which BTW appears vastly different from OrCAD). Central library managed by an internal team, I can't add parts myself, interface was entirely new to me. I trudged my way through schematic entry, then had to (thankfully able to) hurl the design over the wall for packaging. Couldn't be more glad to be done with that project, which says a lot, because PCB layout is usually the most "fun" (you're still working afterall) part.I hate the Cadence environment, absolutely hate it. I found out they also have licenses of Capture (CIS?) which seems more in line with OrCAD I used at uni some ten years ago - problem is that it's still the absolutely terrible, clunky interface I remember from ten years ago.I'm so much more efficient in Altium, having used it since Protel 2004. Ultimately though this is the real world and this is how it goes, you suck it up, you learn the new tool. Still, I couldn't help but vent somewhere that may (just may) have some sympathy.Anyone else faced a similar situation in their careers? Employer offered to pay for some crash-course training, so that much at least i'm excited about. A smaller group of us guys doing more rapid prototyping have talked about another tool, but for what the company pays for Cadence, not so sure that's going to fly well. Glimmer of hope perhaps.

author: DerekG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 02:46:47 am
content: The chances are (if you engineers all stick together) management will never know if you import the Allegro files into Altium, work on them, then export them back to Allegro.Here are the links to get you started.Allegro import into Altium:https://techdocs.altium.com/node/296712Altium import into Allegro:https://community.cadence.com/cadence_blogs_8/b/pcb/posts/what-39-s-good-about-the-altium-to-allegro-pcb-editor-translator-it-s-now-available-in-the-latest-16-6-hotfix

author: bitbanger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 02:53:50 am
content: Clever! This is definitely something I'll probably end up leveraging in the future.Too bad it's not a daily solution, as my Alitum license is a personal license and can't install it on my work PC (not to mention IT has our systems locked down like Ft Knox).Thanks for the info!

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 07:55:57 pm
content: How much time would you say you've put into the new tool versus into Altium?I'm curious how much of the challenge you're facing is due to the inherent differences in efficiencies/capabilities between tools versus needing more time to adjust and internalize the differences in the interface/workflow. Also, is part of the challenge in not having as much control over the library and the environment as you've had in the past?

author: bitbanger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 08:47:04 pm
content: I'd venture that I've spent probably 40 hours in Allegro most recently, strictly schematic entry. OrCAD experience has been limited to basic SPICE simulation over the years, never really any schematic-to-board experience. Altium on the other hand: on and off over the years, but probably equivalent to a solid 5 years daily M-F.Not having control over parts in Allegro EDM is here nor there - it's kind of nice to have a librarian create parts for you, but it really drags out the design timeline.I think the biggest hurdle with Capture (I'm not planning to venture into Allegro if I can help it - at least capture is somewhat familiar, and our small group can maintain our own libraries) is what you suggested: the design workflow. It's so foreign to not be able to simply double click on a schematic symbol and see/browse for/change the footprint (for example). In Capture I have to open the pcb library, find the name of the footprint, go back to schematic/symbol library, enter the library footprint name, either by hand or copy paste? Just seems so archaic and long-way-around.I'm bashing Cadence, I know, but I blame Altium for spoiling me.I think with some time I will build up proficiency, just frustrating when you know you can be 100% productive immediately in another tool, you know?

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2019, 10:30:49 pm
content: You're lucky, the department I worked in at my last employer made the switch from Altium to DesignSpark because the manager (an electrical engineer himself) thought, that the latter is more efficient to use...

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 04:02:22 pm
content: I am working at a leading, though very specialized test equipment manufacturer. Just before I entered the company there was the question of switching EDA Tools from the outdated, anciend PADS, to something new. They have invited sales people from Cadence, Altium and Pulsonix. The Cadence people didn't show up, altium send some jackass which didn't even know how to use the tool himself, but WestDev send two people over from england who did know their tool very well. So Pulsonix it was. I was a bit sad hearind that, since I have worked with altium for quite some time now and love the workflow (at least if that damn thing doesn't decide to go apeshit after I haven't safed for like a decade), but you work with what you got. I can tell you... After you have used altium you don't want to go back to some software which relies totaly on mouse control to activate the tools.My way to tackle this issue was: talking to the other engineers who have worked with this software, watching them do the basic stuff and reading the manual of the EDA tool, followed by a painful try and error journey while getting used to work with that sh....iny piece of software. Took me nearly two weeks to begin to get productive with that thing.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 04:38:16 pm
content: Count yourself lucky you're not doing this in the early 2000's, when Allegro was desperately unstable and buggy to the point of being unusable.At least now it's generally pretty stable. It took me a fair while to learn it, and yes, the learning curve is steep and the UI feels awkward and unintuitive at first - but persevere with it, get familiar with it, and it's both usable and capable.I got a free copy of this included when I bought OrCad. Helped no end.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Design-Using-Capture-Editor/dp/0750689714/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1549471057&sr=8-2&keywords=orcad

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2019, 08:15:49 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on February 02, 2019, 10:30:49 pmAre you fu***king kidding me? Probably a shitty EE and even worse manager.Regarding the import/export - I have never experienced import/export working flawlessly without messing up things like layers, fonts, positions or part parameters. I worked with Eagle, Zuken, now with Altium professionally and use Kicad at home. This import/export feature is imho good just for bugfixes (hotfixes) for legacy projects. I would rather invest time into learning the tool.All bigger companies I am aware either outsource libraries externally (AD Vault) or have a dedicated team which deals just with the libraries and parts management. It would take up to two months to get a component to the library with my previous employer. This is because of the PLM process, quality, pricing, second source, justification etc. etc. Now, I do just prototypes so it takes less than a week but still can't come up with my own component (pssst...) for AD.I recommend sticking with what the employer gives you and offering e.g. Kicad or other simple tool (Eagle, DipTrace) for rapid development. Kicad won't ruin the budget.my 0.02USD