eBay seller with great deal on LG 18650's - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2017, 02:09:37 am
content: Just wanted to drop a note incase anyone was interested and I hope I am not breaking any forum rules, if so please delete this:FYI: An eBay seller, "alarmhookup" has a huge lot of used LG 18650 Lithium Ion packs. There configured at 36V@ 4.4ah stock from the old ebike or whatever they pulled them from. A YouTube guy, "EV Samba" has purchased a batch and done a video on his capacity testes etc.I emailed the seller and was told they have about 500,000 cells left from the original 2M. I am trying to arrange a very large purchase (at least 50,000 cells) directly and will be picking them up from their NJ warehouse.Again, just a FYI for anyone interested. I haven't got them in my hands yet to verify but it seems like a great deal for all us DIY Powerwall guys/gals and anyone who builds EV packs. Tom is the sellers name and he'll let them go for $1 each. Once I get there and I am able to conduct my capacity, but more importantly ESR tests, I'll report back with the results. I'll make a video of the tests if I can.I do not know the sellers and I will not profit in anyway by sharing this info. I just think 2200mah, LG 18650 cells for $1 each is a pretty good deal. If this post violates any forum rules please delete it and please don't reply with negativity, I am just trying to help anyone who may be interested. (<--- I get my feelings hurt pretty easy for a hardened combat veteran).

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 06:32:29 pm
content: Thanks for the info. Have you been able to test any yet?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 07:24:31 pm
content: I was wondering how these are configured to get 36V?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 07:26:57 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on June 01, 2017, 07:24:31 pm10S 2Phttp://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LG-36V-4-4AH-BATTERY-PACK-18650-EBIKE-VAPE-POWERWALL-BATTERIES-20-CELLS-BMS-/172630688902

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 08:10:14 pm
content: you mean 10 in series and two of those banks in parallel. Yes, that is how you could do it.But it looks like there are 5 banks of 4 cells in parallel.- and that is what is confusing me.Also, his ad says they are new, not used.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2017, 11:25:27 pm
content: After watching the EV Samba video I went ahead and ordered the 10 pack of these - 200 cells for $249. I need to build a new battery pack for my eBike and these are a good deal at $1.25 per cell. I was tempted to order the 1000 cells for $1100 and use these to build the battery pack for the electric Tractor I have planned but given the abuse and low temp exposure that will have, I think good old lead acid will be best - at least to start.According to EV Samba - these are new cells from a hoverboard manufacturer that are being dumped cheap since that fad is past its peak.

author: onlooker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2017, 12:24:24 am
content: Thanks to OP, ordered 20 cells to have a closer look. It will be nicer if the 36V BMS can be cut into 2 18V BMS.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2017, 05:31:00 pm
content: Here is the spec sheet for the Samsung batteries:https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_22P.pdfand a review:http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Samsung%20ICR18650-22P%202200mAh%20%28Blue%29%20UK.html

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 07:27:41 pm
content: Sorry for the late reply. Tom is the gentleman selling the packs. I spoke with him in great detail (after the OP) and these are from recalled two-wheeled scooters or "hover boards" as they became known. Everyone I know that has ordered them as been stoked.The recall involved the balance/ charging board & the power circuitry in general. The scooters were over heating and catching fire; so I would certainly stress-test the board before I attempted to reuse it. I did plan on trying to find the defective part/parts on the board and making a video but I have since got a large lot of vintage Tektronix scopes and plan to focus my energies on restoration of them instead.If you're using just the cells from these packs, it's still an excellent deal. Of course, it's good practice to test them thoroughly before installing them into any system you've build. He did sell most of the lot to a solar company in FL but kept a few "handfuls for the DIY guys," as he put it, so get them while you can if your planning to buy any.Cheers all,Chris

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 10:14:32 pm
content: I bought 5 packs and planned to use them for a small solar panel project. Turns out they will not work for me, so now I am looking for an application for them.I thought I would just go ahead and order a 500W, 36V e-bike front wheel kit for my mountain bike. Not sure now... I don't have any way to charge the full pack. I'd make the battery box a quick release as a fail safe...

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2017, 10:43:39 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on June 13, 2017, 10:14:32 pmI can help you with designs and charging. It's what I love. I use them for residential solar battery builds. Shoot me a messsge and I'll give you my number. I would also buy them if you don't find a use for them.

author: jwm_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:30:08 am
content: Sweet. I bought some and am going to pair them with one of those lab power supply buck converters to make a luggable constant voltage/current power supply.I got a huge amount of use out of my Tekpower TP3016M on the road and camping but it only worked when the inverter and solar setup was up and running, which was kind of self defeating because when those are not working is exactly when I want my test gear up and running to debug things.It says they have a BMS, does that generally handle balance charging properly so I can just feed a voltage and the BMS will ensure they don't over or undercharge or is it dumber than that? I don't see a breakout header for individual cells like you see with RC packs so maybe it is built in already? I guess I'm wondering what having a solid BMS as specified in the list entails in terms of features beyond keeping them from blowing up which I assume is a given.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: jwm_ on June 15, 2017, 01:30:08 amThe hoverboards were recalled in part, because of the faulty BMS. You should not reuse it. If you have a CC/CV power supply, you do not need a BMS to charge them. If you build a 3S pack and run 12.6V's into it, the batteries will charge evenly. Of course you need to watch them and occasionally measure the individual Voltages to be sure. When the pack gets to 12.6V, you'll see the CV mode kick in and the current will begin to drop. Once the current draw hits around 200mA the. The pack is fully charged.I am certain someone is going to come out and say "that's not smart" but I've done this with tens of thousands of cells and NEVER had one explode, or even charge over 4.21V individually. ( you can set the Inout to 12.3 max if you want to have a margin of error, each cell will charge up to 4.1V in this case). As long as the cells are good, they will charge evenly. Just do not leave them unattended unless/until your sure they are all good cells.I went one step further an wired a cheap 4-digit voltmeter to each cell holder to watch the individual voltages, and used a temp sensing unit to watch for excess heat - which is the first sign that a cell is going bad, and you need to stop the charger immediately if you see a cell with unusual temps.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 01:19:04 pm
content: So are these supposed to be new or used or what?If you look at the negative reviews of this seller there are quite a few persons that have been sent very used packs without much capacity left or even broken cells.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 02:22:13 pm
content: Mine look as if they could be new. They are not dusty as I'd expect if actually used in a hoverboard. They were all charged to 36.x volts which is a little low for shipping as specified in the mfg datasheet. I have not used them yet.Why wouldn't one just tap off of each parallel bank and use a 3S balance charger if you don't run the input through a BMS?

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:00:19 pm
content: Quote from: Kjelt on June 15, 2017, 01:19:04 pmLook at the accounts of the buyers mate...lol. Probably have no idea what they are or how to use them. Can't please everyone! You can see here that knowledgeable people ( as we are here) love them.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2017, 03:03:48 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on June 15, 2017, 02:22:13 pmYou could. I totally disable the packs and strip off all the spot welded leads. I have the little plastic holders to build new packs in whatever size, shape, configuration I want.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 06:07:25 pm
content: One general question on the battery packs as they are. I know they may be a recalled product due to some design issue with the BMS, but...Does anyone know if the installed PCB has the appropriate charging circuit, so one could supply a simple DC voltage? I have a 36V supply that may adjust up high enough to charge the pack, or should I expect to supply the proper charge cycle at the input?I have not taken one apart yet.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2017, 12:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on June 23, 2017, 06:07:25 pmI don't have any to inspect but this is what I'd do:Since there should be a buck converter chip or voltage regulator on the board, google the part number and read the data sheet for input min/max before wiring up a power source. Since these boards were functional, you can almost certainly just input a VDC and they will charge, but I'd be very cautious and watch it closely.If you upload a close up of the board, I can tell you more.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 04:11:51 am
content: Not too hard to get to... probably not enough there to hook up 10 amps. I'm guessing the unloaded parts were for the 48V version.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2017, 10:49:25 pm
content: The 42V 2A power bricks that are intended to charge 36V packs can be found very cheap, probably for the same reason these batteries are available cheap. Just search for "42V charger" on ebay/aliexpress/amazon/etc.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2017, 12:06:05 am
content: Bought a pack. Surprised that Squaretrade for 3 years is offered. If I were making a bike I think I would pay for it. I am going to take the pack apart and use them in plastic holders and make a PS for a portable lab like another member is doing. I will charge them in separate chargers.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 01:27:54 pm
content: My cheap 42V 2A ebay charger came in and I charged up one pack. I picked the oddball pack - different color shrink wrap and the wiring looks a bit different. The BMS also seems a different shape under the wrap, but hard to tell.Starting at 38V it took about an hour before I noticed the charger was green. I measured 40V which was a little disappointing.I proceeded to connect a wattmeter and a 2 amp load, which ran about 1.5 hours before I guess the BMS shut it off at 33.3V. So that is roughly 3Ahr, less actually.I will try the same pack again and then another.Edit:So as preserve my legacy of being on time, I'm editing my post.Quote from: Inverted18650 on July 04, 2017, 04:56:33 pmI'm using some kind of halogen spotlight for my load, and one of those multi-readout ebay watt meters.The first pack gave a little more than its first run, 118Whr.The second pack charged about 2 hours from 36.8V, but still came off the charger with ~40.5V after some rest.It put out 148Whr. I caught it just in time as the BMS in this one did not shut it off and it was ~25.5V when I pulled the plug. I went out and dug a ditch to fix a leaky pipe, the second pack returned to 33.5V.

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2017, 04:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on July 04, 2017, 01:27:54 pmRight on. Cool to hear some results.Also your have exactly 555 posts on the blog. Your new nick-name should be "timer".I am currently testing cells for a 12V 1000Ah build. Nothing but 18650's on and off the charger all day for 6 days straight now. I use the Turnigy Quadcore Reaktor for the discharge tests. Kind of bummed that it's such a hassle to use the Discharge Plus mode on these models. I have to "trick" the controller each time I start a new test with 6 cells in series @ 2A's, using the external resistors. I wish they would make a patch for the startup error.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2017, 09:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: metrologist on June 01, 2017, 08:10:14 pmIt's 10 series units of (2 cells in parallel).Quote from: Inverted18650 on June 15, 2017, 01:00:41 pmIt's not smartAny imbalance in the cells will get larger with each charge cycle. Either charge the cells individually, or use a balance charger, or balance them by hand every few cycles.Quote from: metrologist on June 23, 2017, 06:07:25 pmNo, you need a charger.BTW, I bought one of the Samsung packs. It appears to be unused, and the cells test at 2.2Ah on an Lii-500 charger.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 02:25:13 pm
content: I bought an inexpensive hover board charger, rated 42V 2A. I suspect it is just an ~42V supply.Interesting side note, Adam Welch (YouTube) recently posted a short video of a boost charge controller that is settable 24, 36, 48, 72V that I am considering to pair with my 100W solar panel to charge these pack for my newly built e-bike (bought just so I had a use for these batteries, and is likely to be the source of more forum content).

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 03:55:35 pm
content: I was thinking of ordering a bunch of these intending to make some 60+ah golf cart batteries. Thanks to this site showing up on a google search, I decided to order only a few. I understand the BMS boards are likely to fail. Can anyone quantify the failure rate? Or how to avoid failures? How to detect developing failures? Any suggestions on making a safer battery that can supply ~100 amps?I haven't yet seen one. Do they have the standard charge and discharge ports on the BMS? Should I try just paralleling the charge ports and the discharge ports on 10-20 of them?

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 05:25:30 pm
content: Did you see the image I posted earlier in the thread? You just have the 36V main leads. The BMS taps each of the 10 pairs. The picture I show is one style of BMS, I did not open the others I received, but there is a difference because the one I show shuts off at 33.3V and the others have gone down to 25.x volts before I manually stopped the discharge, so I do not know if they cut off. That might be the problem is those are not cutting the discharge and the other cuts off too soon.I've been using them on my ebike and they are delivering what I would expect, but not quite full capacity. I have not literally measured them all, but I get 5 miles @ 24MPH on a 500W hub at full speed, no peddling, and many stops. I'm not a small guy either. I do not worry about the low cutoff because the bike slows down so much when the voltage gets below 30V that I'll swap the pack. I've cycled each about 10 times, no problems with any of them so far.I think they were worth it considering the cost of a quality battery pack.

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 06:02:11 pm
content: Thanks! It would be a relief to learn that the problem is only to fail to limit discharge on low voltage. Though one bad cell could make things turn nasty fast. A golf cart will be like an ebike. Performance drop makes you notice low voltage. If that is the only problem, I'm surprised the hover boards didn't do the same. I seem to recall hearing that hover boards burned while charging, though.I look forward to hooking several together. Do you know how much current each can supply? The BMS, that is. I know the cells will go quite a bit. I'll review your earlier posts and see what can be divined.

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2017, 06:57:46 pm
content: Thanks for that insight! I've kept an eye on the charging and have done it outside when I'm not going to be close by. I use a 42V 2A charger. I better check the taps next time I charge the open unit, and I may open the other style.I have a 20A DMM and will try measuring the current. The only decent load I have though is the ebike. The battery cell is rated 10A max current.

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 04:45:01 pm
content: I received my 20 hoverboard batteries yesterday. Some preliminary testing done on one by my more talented neighbor indicates a current capacity of 14 amps into a 2.7 ohm load with a voltage drop from ~41 v to 38 v. The neighbor tells me that indicates an internal cell resistance of about 46 milliohms. Probably typical for that type of cell. That's far more current than I had hoped for; I expected the BMS to limit. Results of capacity testing to follow.The BMS did seem to limit charging to about 42v.I will proceed configuring 10 in parallel to run a golf cart with the intention of eventually putting two sets of 10 in the cart.

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 07, 2017, 10:51:28 am
content: First capacity test indicates 4.02 ah down to 28.2 v at 1 amp. It is not clear whether the BMS or the tester shutdown on low voltage; the tester was set to 28v..At least some more testing will follow.Data sheet for cells indicate as low as 2..05 ah down to 2.75v at .2C. The above test was at .5C and to not quite as low a voltage. So, capacity looks reasonable.https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_22P.pdf

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 09, 2017, 10:52:24 am
content: Some more testing on three batteries:One battery properly/successfully disconnected when fully charged and subjected to 48 volts.Another battery failed to disconnect from the 48v and all cells were ruined.Two batteries successfully disconnected on discharge at about 26.2v.Capacity of the two surviving batteries is about 4ah down to the disconnect at 26-27v; for those two tests, tester low voltage disconnect was set below 26v. Capacity tests are underway for three additional batteries, using 42v chargers.Is there any other interest here in paralleling these batteries into larger batteries? I will continue with plans to make the first 10 module battery that should be capable of driving a golf cart. I've determined that 10 12ga wires will fit into my 6-8ga SB50 terminals so that is the way I will bring all the small batteries together.One of the things I need for a golf cart is an amp-hour counter. I'm looking for something cheap and self contained with perhaps only one pair each of 6-8ga wire as input and output. It would need to handle at least 100 amps @ 36v. Suggestions?

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2017, 10:03:24 pm
content: Greetings all,I will begin to investigate the issue with these boards in the very near future to find there point of failure and hopefully a fix as well. You can get the "rated" internal resistance from the datasheet for the cells and use it as your baseline. I plan to video tape my findings and make a little YouTube playlist for everyone that has purchased these cells. Hopefully we can get the boards fully functional (and trustlying so) in addition to the cheap cells. I have a couple videos up now so check out "The combat engineer" on YouTube as well. I'm building a few DIY discharge capacity testers based on the Arduino and have loads of other projects in the works. I do not use any trade lingo and try to keep it super simple to appeal to a larger crowd. I can certainly do projects in that fashion if requested.The channel is hard to find due it the Army's MOS - was also mine while I served- so add 18650 and it'll pop up.Looking forward to getting the BMS going because I think they have an 11A rating which can be very useful for loads of projects.

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2017, 02:07:43 pm
content: Just post your link. Is this it?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCku0pel_cbkRfwLXVdF84zw

author: mckemie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 21, 2017, 01:22:18 am
content: I'm at a stopping point so will post results so far.We tested 13 batteries, killing one with 48v charging. Some BMSs seem to cut off on high charge voltage but one did not so we quit testing that. Most, maybe all, cut off discharge at 26-35 volts. The pack shut off seemed to be a result of imbalance; one cell going low before others. Capacities were 2.9-4.4 ah. Again, low capacities could be attributed to low cells. Right now, I am doing repeated cycles in a golf cart and will test later to see if capacities came up. Presumably, the BMS will bring low cells up with each cycle.A golf cart ran very well on 8-9 batteries and even on 4 with more sag. My current plan is to put up to 3 8 battery modules in a golf cart. I've found an ammunition box that holds 8 batteries nicely in less space than a 6v lead golf cart battery (GC2).My tests were encouraging enough that I ordered another 150 batteries with the intention of having enough to do several golf carts or similar vehicles.https://plus.google.com/+WillieMcKemie/posts/Xi4j1BTSTwCThis may answer my need for a cheap amp-hour counter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-5-40V-0-200A-Volt-Amp-Combo-Meter-Battery-Charge-Discharge-No-Need-Power/181269197564?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

author: metrologist
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2017, 02:25:52 am
content: just came across this vigeo...thread pron