Smart TV _ No Thanks - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:35:40 am
content: We have seen a few posts on the board concerning 'Smart' TV sets, I don't personally like them because of the privacy concerns but I came across another problem this morning after a neighbor asked me to help with his new TV, so new that the packing carton was still on the floor. The problem? He could view TV signals and cable signals but nothing happened when he plugged a hard drive into the USB port. Our tale of disaster is as follows:1) Semi-working TV, beautiful picture but no USB connectivity, plugging in a USB drive gives a suggestion on screen that the drive is not formatted.2) Call Telefunken technical support (on a premium number) to find out that only certain manufacturers of USB stick and external drive are supported and the drive must be FAT32 formatted, an NTFS formatted drive will not work.3) Back to my apartment to get one of the supported USB sticks, I format it, stuff it with test files and return.4) Insert USB stick, wait 90 seconds and then the directory loads.5) Select an mp4 file, wait thirty seconds and then get the message 'this codec is not supported'6) Select an .avi file, wait twenty seconds, TV turns itself off.7) Reboot TV, go back to the USB drive, wait ninety seconds for the directory to display and try loading an MP3 file, after twenty seconds the TV turns itself off.Repack 'Smart' TV and return it to Media Markt.I have an eight year old notebook underneath my 'dumb' TV that plays mp4, mp3, avi, flash and every other format I can throw at it. It also plays DVDs and audio CDs AND I can watch the EEV Blog on it without telling Samsung the URL. Sometimes the old ways really are the best.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:42:06 am
content: Ya cant really judge all Smart TV's from an experience with a crap one.Just like everything, there is the china $2 store quality and good quality.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:50:48 am
content: What model was the tv?I want my smart tv to be only a monitor. Just various inputs. Nothing else.Alexander.

author: tipofthesowrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:51:33 am
content: Quote from: Psi on August 12, 2015, 08:42:06 amI tend to agree. There are some really nice smartTV's out there like the Sony and Phillips which are running Android. You could even install an advanced media center like Kodi on them. (First hand experience on the Phillips set here).I do agree some of the older and cheaper smartTV sets were total crap. But as said above, judging an entire product class with one bad experience is like saying all razors are bad because you cut you once.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:52:48 am
content: I have a smart tv, and only use it as a HDMI monitor. ('2010 Philips)What I want:-fast startup (it doesn't)-source selection-fixed setting for external sound (has to think 30seconds about that)-HDMI 1.4 CEC (does that most of the time)-easy remote control (too many small buttons)I would definitively spend the same/more for a screen without all the smartscrap, but with faster response.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:56:17 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 12, 2015, 08:35:40 amThat's not just a problem with many "smart" TV's, but the Sony Playstation4 won't play content off an NTFS drive either.I think if VLC got together with Kodi to develop an actual smart TV operating system, they'd make a fair bit of coin out of it.

author: continuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:56:37 am
content: Oh yeah, Telefunken... Don't let you fool by the name, which was once, many many years ago, a decent brand, now is just a meaningless label they put on the cheapest chinese crap they could find...

author: Deathwish
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 08:58:15 am
content: Without hijacking it, I love the old TV sets, hate new ones, no good parts to take out, I keep looking for old sets with ceramic 11W type resistors in ... meh.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:04:52 am
content: I'm hoping that my neighbor doesn't read EEVBlog because I just did some investigating and Telefunken TV sets are made in Turkey. He made the false assumption that because his TV set was a trusted German brand it was actually manufactured in Germany but, unfortunately, this is not the case.The model number was D50F275I3C if anybody is interested.So, given that this is a recently manufactured TV why does it not read NTFS formatted drives or support mp4 files?Anyway, the post from Psi is correct and we should not tar all of them with the same brush so I ask that you try an experiment for me with YOUR TV set.1) Plug in either an external hard drive or USB stick with an mp4 file on it Does your set read all file formats?2) Time how long it takes before you see a directory on the screen3) Time how long it takes before the media file runs.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:10:24 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 12, 2015, 09:04:52 amScared of getting butt raped by MS over licensing fees most probably. Given the nature of mp4 files that bit could be very dependent on exactly what file was failing to play.

author: tipofthesowrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:12:59 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 12, 2015, 09:04:52 amMost SmartTV's are running on some form of embedded linux. NTFS is a proprietary Filesystem developed by Microsoft for Windows. It took quite some time before Linux could handle NTFS files (initially with ntfs-3g package running in user space, more recent Linux kernels can do this natively but for example can't write files)See:http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/177978/how-does-linux-kernel-deal-with-windows-ntfs-filesystem

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:18:43 am
content: Quote from: German_EE on August 12, 2015, 09:04:52 amBecause it's shite. 5 years ago I boughtNOT SMART TVLG 42LE4500 for my grandma, and it does what this "smart" TV doesn't:Quote

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:28:20 am
content: Whilst most smart TVs don't support NTFS, as its Microsoft proprietary format, they do usually support anything Linux supports - ext2, ext3, etc. Smart TVs have more of a "get it over the network" focus that a local storage focus, so I wouldn't even know if our TV has support or not. We have a hard disk plugged into it, to be able to record TV shows, and that was formatted by the TV itself with one of the Linux disk formats (I can't remember which one).Not supporting MP4 files is odd though. That's a real limitation, and not one you usually see. The set almost certainly has the necessary codec, so patent issues with the codec shouldn't be the reason.

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:34:38 am
content: News flash.....consumer electronics can be disappointing!I think putting things in perspective, the fact that you can get a 50 inch TV for $500 is amazing. The "smart TV" part is just a marketing thing. Chances are half the features won't work in 5 years from now.I don't really see this as rant worthy IMHO.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:35:21 am
content: The tv set was resetting and was dead slow. There was something wrong with it. I don;t believe it didn't support mp4 or mp3. What the manual states about supporting formats?Alexander.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:39:29 am
content: Telefunken = Vestel junk. take it back to the shop.Software is so unstable.After about 1 year to 18 months, the filesystem will be corrupted from all of the crashes and the TV will not work any more (blinking error code)Or the diodes on the power supply, which are all in parallel, will short and blow the primary FETOr the NAND flash will fail due to poor wear leveling algorithmOr the LCD panel will go badI have had the pleasure of fixing too many of these.

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:56:36 am
content: Smart TV's are a dumb idea like the internet fridge. Fridge breaks and you lose the computer as well. "It's just like having a fridge AND a computer except service costs 26 times as much, WooHoo !!! "Cheap big tv + Cheap media player = Great experience and You own It, rather than IT owns YOU.Quote from: Psi on August 12, 2015, 08:42:06 amI don't buy USA made or AU made if there is a Chinese alternative. Better to have cheap broken crap then expensive broken crap because then I don't beat myself up about it. Plus, you can buy twenty times as much Chinese junk to fill your house for the same money.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:43:59 am
content: Even if you could buy a smart TV that did everything you wanted today (August 2015) you have to realize that consumer electronics manufacturers are terrible at releasing updated firmware for security and functional problems (except for maybe the most recent model). As soon as YouTube changes the preferred file download format (again) you will probably be looking for a new TV. To say nothing of the fact that your TV will belong to somebody's botnet...

author: TheElectricChicken
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:08:22 am
content: Quote from: dfmischler on August 12, 2015, 10:43:59 amBest place to see a new tv is in the shop. best place for an old on is at home. They change so fast it's stupid to keep bringing one home each week.QuoteEXACTLY.I want to know whosestupid idea it was to connect a cockpit to the internet so people could hack it.What was the legitimate purpose supposed to be ? so sick pilots could work from home ? or just another way to fly planes into buildings ? SERIOUSLY, WHAT PURPOSE DOES IT SERVE?? why connect the flight controls to the internet ? seriously, why ?Already people can hijack cars from the internet hundreds of miles away, isn't that stupid enough for people ? why planes too ?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:56:18 am
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 12, 2015, 09:12:59 amNTFS-3G came to the party quite late, actually. Read support has been available for over a decade. This is not a reason nor an excuse for a lack of NTFS support in dumb TVs.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 12:42:57 pm
content: Big monitor + computer is far, far better at being a "smart TV" than a smart TV itself.You can also do other computer-y things with it too.

author: tipofthesowrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 02:11:10 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on August 12, 2015, 02:06:33 pmAgreed, especially higher end models such as the Philips 7000 and up series have dedicated processing FPGA's to enhance the picture, do upscaling and improve picture quality. I find experience if watching a movie on a decent TV (and preferably in combination with a decent sound system) a 1000x more enjoyable then on my computer monitor.Sometimes you can actually see the difference with and without any processing when your TV supports game mode. This useally turns off all post-processing to optimize for input speed.To add to the smart TV discussion:- any setup box is hackable for a botnet. Just check the cam sharing websites for satellite STB's. Most are being used in a botnet.However, most decent home routers prevent this kind of abuse so if your TV is being actively used in a botnet I'd think you'd you have more than just this security concern.- Indeed, some SmartTV's are quite good, reducing the need for yet another box, remote, increased power consumption.- A big plus for me personally: TV's are quiet! No fans blowing from laptop or computer PSU.I do agree updating them is hard. Especially after a few years. Hopefully more manufacterers are switching to Android and a generic Google image to support further updates.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 02:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on August 12, 2015, 02:06:33 pmDifferent strokes for different folkes. My mother seems to love her new smart TV, my little brother still uses his htpc hooked up to the same TV*. Both have what seem to be valid reasons for their preference.QuoteMy QSXGA 20' monitor has a much better screen than any TV I've seen. I might replace it with a 4K TV when they start making them in sizes that don't only exist to make up for someone's feelings of inadequacy. Until then they're too pixelated when up close. But meh, I've never seen a need for a TV bigger than 30" so my view on that is probably invalid.*With a post-it note stuck over the camera for good measure even though it's not meant to be "smart" when using a DVI input.Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 12, 2015, 02:11:10 pmSo are dumb TVs with a fanless htpc

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 03:24:45 pm
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 12, 2015, 02:11:10 pmManufacturers shipping Android phones also appear not to be doing too well at updating them.Seven CVE Identifiers Cited in Numerous Security Advisories and News Media References about the Android "Stagefright" VulnerabilityYet another Android vulnerability Discovered; impacts over 55 percent of all Android users.I hope this will improve soon.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 03:42:25 pm
content: Isn't NTFS patented, so implementation would require paying patent fees?

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 03:51:23 pm
content: Sorry, the manual went back to the dealer along with the TV so I have no idea what the full list of supported formats was but I know that mp4 was on the list.The first disk we tried was a Western Digital 2TB device that held his collection of videos. The drive is NTFS formatted and comes with a selection of MS Windows tools to manage the drive, if he had reformatted the drive to FAT32 these utilities may not have worked but in any event why should he need to do this?The other strange thing is the time the TV took to read the USB stick (and it was a USB3 socket). Ninety seconds to get a directory is painfully slow.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 06:54:20 pm
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 12, 2015, 02:11:10 pmI meant the "botnet" comment as a catch-all for, "your security will suck because the manufacturer will have stopped helping you in the security arms race, and you probably will have no way to come up with the updates you will need."FYI - Most modern malware expects that inbound connections from the Internet will be blocked, so once the malware has a foothold it will "phone home" for instructions. This can be done in ways that bypass the protections on most routers and many firewalls. If malware can be saved on disk or in flash, and run upon restart, then you will have acquired a persistent infection.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 05:10:30 am
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 12, 2015, 02:11:10 pmMust be a rather large FPGA in order to be able to compare to a modern GPU. I always see racks of FPGAs being used to emulate chips that are only a small fraction of the complexity of a modern GPU.What I would like to see is a smart TV that just accepts a standard PC motherboard and GPU.

author: MiataMuc
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 05:24:18 am
content: isn't mpg4 a container format? We often have this issues.. some files are only beeing played by the PS3, some only by the TV (an old Phillips).

author: tipofthesowrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 07:05:17 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 13, 2015, 05:10:30 amSome kind of Xilinx Spartan of I remember correctlyQuote from: NiHaoMike on August 13, 2015, 05:10:30 amIsn't that just a HTPC connected to your TV?

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 10:40:15 am
content: THX doesn't seem to hold he same merit as it once did. I'm seeing their logo slapped onto more and more onto products. Allthought I know panasonic made a few "elite" serise of TV's 4-5 years ago. But they were like $8k for a 50 inch IIRC. And still highly coveted.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 10:47:06 pm
content: I bought a new TV last November. It is a very smart TV because it's hooked up to a Core i5 3570 with 8 GB RAM, Geforce550 Ti, SSD, and 8 TB of storage. It has never been used to watch "TV", but it's great for playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and of course, wasting time on the Internet.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 11:49:22 pm
content: A friend of mine got one but it's already outdated so he can no longer install all the apps he wanted... he then got a BR player with same functionality... but the software is so stupid he complains about it all the time. I've offered helping him with a linux htpc box, but he's an apple guy who likes when "stuff just works"... rightIn general I think it's better to have separate devices for separate tasks or else you end up with a lot of bad compromises and you have to toss all of it when one part stops working (but that's probably a feature).

author: tomlut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 01:00:35 am
content: The DLNA client and Netflix app on my 3 year old Panasonic Plasma Smart TV are performing perfectly but I have no use for the rest of the guff included and they make it very difficult to remove. A lot of it can only be disabled rather than removed.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 04:43:14 am
content: Quote from: tipofthesowrd on August 13, 2015, 07:05:17 amI'm thinking something more integrated. As in making the TV a PC case, even if that means restricting it to mini ITX motherboards and single GPUs. The 24" or so screens make a particularly interesting choice as that size is about perfect for LAN parties.

author: bills
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 05:18:27 am
content: My tv is dumb and I like it that way, although it has a pc,roku and a firestik with kodi/genesis hooked up to it.I guess that makes it not so dumb.no over the air, satellite or cable to pay for I guess that makes it free and smarter.

author: tomlut
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2015, 02:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on August 14, 2015, 10:57:12 amI have done and occasionally the SBS and ABC iView apps too but I find the 24" LCD monitor on a swing arm beside my recliner easier to use for youtube.