Phillipps/Fluke PM3382 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2011, 02:17:25 pm
content: Hi, bit new here so apologies if this isn't the best forum.Having recently decided that I ought to try to find some time to play around with electronics again after a 25-year gap (used to do a lot of "home computer" and audio repair back then) I thought I'd treat myself to a "new" 'scope.Now for a change I'm not going to ask "which one". I looked at the cheap Rigols or the Atten ADS1102CA which seems to be a DS1102E clone available from Amazon UK for £300 (€360 or US $450) but really, for the amount I'll use it, this is more than I wanted to spend.So after a few failed bids I picked up a Phillips PM3382 "combiscope" from eBay.Now I'm pretty happy with this - 4channel(2+2), 100MHz analogue bandwidth and 200Ms/s digital. The example I bought is in "fair" physical condition (well, it is 18 years old) and AFAICS fully functional. After an "autocal" the calibration is spot on as well.I have, however, noted that there isn't a lot of discussion of this family of 'scope on the forum - coverage for the older stuff is mostly Hameg and Tek with very few mentions of the Phillips stuff. I do have a couple of questions.First how do people think this is going to square up to a modern 'scope in practice. Obviously the sampling rate is a bit on the slow side but that's only really going to affect single shot captures (it does asynchronous or "random" sampling to get a better picture of repetitive signals). I'm probably not going to throw much past 20MHz at it - maybe 50 if I'm feeling flush :-)Secondly, and more importantly, are there any common failures or other known problems with these units as they age. It looks to have been a pretty high-spec machine for its day and well built but things do "wear out" especially electrolytics - is there anything in particular that I should look out for?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2011, 02:34:36 pm
content: In my opinion it's a decent scope assuming you got it at a good price. The defficiencies like low sampling rate or refresh rate (don't remember, but given its age I'd expect it to be fairly low) can be worked around by using analog mode. For example if you ever suspect aliasing, just press the button for analog mode.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2011, 04:06:57 pm
content: QuoteWell, if I'd put it in the forum that I'd meant to it would have been better - meant to put it over in product discussion. Any way of getting it moved?Quote£200, I missed a couple of decent 50MHz analogue only 'scopes and a Hameg HM1005 which went for £260. That was way over what I was prepared to bid as the seller had only included a stock photo. I haven't seen a better 'scope go for less in the past 6 weeks so I'm reasonably happy with the 3382 and the price I paid.QuoteThat's pretty much what I figured. TBH I'd have settled for an analogue only 'scope so to have a usable digital option is a bonus.As I said - I'd be really interested to know if there's any "preventative maintenance" that is useful in these 'scopes or whether they're generally robust as they get older.

author: Zad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2011, 06:39:12 pm
content: I have been on the lookout for a decent scope for a few months now, and Ebay prices here in the UK just seem to be getting silly! Some old analogue scopes have asking prices way above that of the better specced new (Chinese) digital scopes now. Even taking into account the quality of the old analogue stuff (and I am an analogue fan) the prices are getting ridiculous. What's worse, is that they seem to be getting buyers!That Philips scope will have more than enough facilities for you. I'm afraid on here there is a huge amount of gear snobbery, with a perception that you can't learn to be an engineer without gear that will sing and dance. Much kudos to the marketing men, they are doing a great job there, but as Jeri would say, it's just pissing up a wall. Scopes like yours were (and still are) used on engineering design and test benches. 18 years is nothing, it will still be running in another 18 years time.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2011, 12:17:35 am
content: QuoteI haven't been looking all that long so haven't got a feeling for what they were however I did find that I was mentally setting a "that's worth £x" and then finding someone would outbid me - several times. Recent sales show a few probably 30-year old basic 20MHz analogue 'scopes have been in the £50-75 range which is certainly more than I'd pay.QuoteThe cheapest price I can see in the UK for a bench 'scope is about £113 for a single channel 10MHz unit rising to about £200 for what I'd consider minimum spec (20-30MHz dual channel). What seems to besellingat the £150 mark is generally better than that (usually 50MHz dual channel) but I know what you mean - one guy wanted £275 for a 100MHz Phillips analogue and at that price youwouldbe better off buying the 100MHz Rigol off Amazon for £25 more. Mind you eBay is strange like that - sometimes new stuff can go for more than in the usual retail channels. People don't research prices properly.QuoteThat's a pity because it's quite possibly the opposite which is true. When doing repairs I had a multimeter (analogue with an accuracy, if I was lucky, of 2%of full scale), a logic probe that I built myself and an old dual-trace 30MHz 'scope (a Hameg IIRC). We did have a 100MHz 'scope - a huge and enormously heavy Tek mainframe thing. It was way old even then - valves rather than transistor like the Hameg. When, one day, I decided to use it I discovered that it didn't actually work and I had to fixITfirst!QuoteI'm hoping that you are right on both counts - I tend to think that you are :-)

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2011, 01:21:32 am
content: common failures, yes 2 that I know of. I have two philips scopes of this era (I love them) but when I bought them they were both broken in the same mannerfirst of all the mains suppression capacitor had exploded in both and taken out this weird little fuse that slots into the transformer - which is pretty easy to take out and change - so don't worry about that.the other issue is the AMPL/DIV switch for some reason both of these had issues with the contacts which I assume is just age however it seems to affect philips more than other scopes that I've experienced and it took a while to clean them so it functioned in a correct manner.but other than those 2 issues I've had no other problems with them

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2011, 12:55:42 pm
content: That all sounds pretty encouraging!

author: PStevenson
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2011, 07:53:30 pm
content: I'm sure it will be all good. I do love those Philips scopes. I don't really need the ones I have but I keep them because they are the best looking ones haha

author: qno
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2011, 08:18:50 pm
content: I have one for years and it is ok.I like Philips scopes because they have a really sharp picture.The Tek scopes had a mesh in front of the screen to boost frequency response bud this made the trace a bit blurry.Philips used to make millions of CRT TV sets a year. They did know a thing or two about CRTs.Temperature change is a problem in measurement equipment. I know that Philips equipment was designed to generate as low heat as possible so components are hardly loaded to stay stable. This consequently means long lifetime.

author: zaoka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2011, 01:05:37 am
content: I used Fluke PM3084 since 2001, sold it a year back. Got mine brand new for $400 of eBay.Never had any problem except probes, it automatically detect what kind of probe is connected and sometimes it does not detect probe so I have to move it for a second so that it recognize. It was doing this from day one, other than that it was very nice scope.I am Hameg fan only because they have component tester that speeds up diode and transistor tests.