Which microscope or what do I get from upgrading my current one - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 02:49:49 pm
content: Edit: now bought Amscope SM-3NTP which is the SM745NTP plus single boom standI know there's a ton of which microscopes should I buy threads out there, but hopefully mines a little differentIn December I purchased the Swift S41. This has good reviews for an entry level microscopeOn Daves mailbag blog 1209 (starting approx 14:00) he also gives it the thumbs uphttps://youtu.be/IKHg32o8rRgand the forum entry for his blog in the comments, those that have purchased it, also seem happy.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1209-mailbag/.Last week, I was attempting a repair of a PS4. While the quality of what I see through the microscope is good, I found it a real pain to use. The main reason being that I simply couldn't turn the circuit board to the position I wanted as it kept hitting the stand.If you see the attached pic, this is what I had to do in order to get some of the positions I wanted, still couldn't get it at a perfect angle. And in order to do this, I had to place my multi meter on the stand to stop the microscope tipping over.The other little annoyance was the small field of view (but I don't know how more expensive ones compare)I'm currently in the position where I have some disposable income, and I'm seriously thinking about getting a microscope around the £500 - £700 range.But, before I spend this sort of money, I want to know what sort of difference I can expect by upgrading.And then there's the how long is a piece of string question. Amscope seems to be the make most people use, I go to their US site, put in Trinocular and I have 1953 results.After watching a few youtube vids, I think 3.5 to 45 is ample, that cuts it down to 99 single and 40 double boom arm ones to choose from.Telling it I don't want a camera (can always get one later if I desire) gives me a much better 8 single and 6 double boom to choose fromAnd looking at them, I THINK they are all the same, just with different light/rings.That being the case, does anyone know what sort of difference I can expect from this microscope, and which light ring I should getMany thanks

author: Daruosha
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 03:15:08 pm
content: Hi,With your budget something like amscope sm745ntp with a boom stand is quite feasible. Boom stand gives lots of freedom and working space. Get a 0.5x adapter as well to increase your working distance and you're good to go.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 03:54:49 pm
content: Have you tried turning the stand around backwards and putting weight on it, like ankle weights? That should keep things steady and get the stand out of your way unless you are working on things bigger than the space of the stand backwards.

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:34:53 pm
content: Plus your choice of light ring and camera from elsewhere, don't buy from Amscope, overpriced for quality/performance.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 04:50:38 pm
content: If you are mechanically handy, have you considered making a new stand that accepts the t-connector and horizontal arm from your present one – assuming the plastic(?) is sturdy enough? You could move the arm+microscope from one base unit to the other, as needed. A large steel base plate, a precision shaft, a flange shaft holder and a couple screws, might be all you need, and perhaps a tap to make the screw threads.

author: Daruosha
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 07:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on April 20, 2020, 04:34:53 pmI'll second that. Amscope is just a generic brand. I believe you'll find much better deals on AliExpress or Amazon.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 07:58:12 pm
content: Thanks, I would rather buy in the UK if I can (no Amscope in stock here, well Amscope have a UK site but the sm745ntp isn't even listed and anything that is listed is out of stock, a very small range for some reason)If they are all made in the same place and just re-badged, I should be able to find a similar model for sale over here. I see my Swift s41 is the same as Amscope's SE400-Z (exactly the same except mine has one extra light)So I'm going to try and find the equivalent of the sm745ntp for sale in the UK (or Europe). I presume 7x - 45 is better than 3.5x - 45 for some reason?Don't want to pay a ton to import something from the USA and then not have a local warranty.I've decided I am going to upgrade. Thanks for the tips for using my existing one though.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2020, 08:09:45 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 20, 2020, 07:58:12 pmGenerally yes, in the sense that quoting 7–45X is not misleading. Usually, to get 3.5–7X you have to add an 0.5X auxiliary objective; to get 22.5–45X you then have to remove it.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 10:53:59 am
content: Hmm, having trouble finding the equivalent in the UK, will keep looking.I emailed Amscope UK, their response wasQuoteWhich gives zero hint of when they might get some in, hopefully I can find the same but cheaper elsewhere.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 12:36:59 pm
content: How aboutthis one?Optika Italy claims to be present in 150 countries, but I can not find them listed on their main website. I will bet you a draught of the local life giving product that their microscopes are not made in Italy.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 01:01:33 pm
content: Many thanks, will ask then for a quote.I've also just found this on Banggod, £233 delivered from Europe with LED and camera, plus I get another £20 off as never used them before.https://uk.banggood.com/Simul-focal-Continuous-Zoom-745X-Trinocular-Stereo-MicroscopeHDMIVGA-Microscope-Camera56-LED-Lig-p-1394601.html?gmcCountry=GB&currency=GBP&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgs&utm_content=lijing&utm_campaign=https://uk.banggood.com/Simul-focal-Continuous-Zoom-745X-Trinocular-Stereo-MicroscopeHDMIVGA-Microscope-Camera56-LED-Lig-p-1394601.html%3FgmcCountry%3DGB%26currency%3DGBP%26cur_warehouse%3DUSA%26createTmp%3D1&cur_warehouse=CZThat seems to look similar (stand doesn't look quite as good) , but also a lot cheaper than competitors products, maybe too cheap? Any comments please?Anyone used Banggood before?Edit: I presume I only need one 0.5x barlow, and they screw into/replace the piece at the underneath of the microscope, I presume the two stereo lenses focus through it?Edit2: What is better about a dual boom arm v single boom arm please?Many thanks

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 01:44:31 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 21, 2020, 01:01:33 pmWell, you can buy too cheaply. I fear that is so much for so little, you will force the vendor to seek and seize every opportunity to still make a profit.Have you seen the movieBedazzled,preferably the original with Dudley Moore as a short, short order cook and Peter Cook as the devil? The vendor may hear your wishes, but then creatively not spend the money to exactly fulfill them. They are only doing what you asked: selling you a microscope system for only £233, delivered(?).

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 21, 2020, 02:30:23 pm
content: Not seen the film but love Peter Cook and Dudley Moore, will hunt it out.Amazon have them from Amscope Global many different prices for same product?, delivery by next week, will wait to see if Optika get back with a quote.Single boom version is, including delivery, all from Amazon Global£510https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06X9HQR52/?coliid=I1RFV1MXSEUGC&colid=L5N3DCOD52K1&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_itor £445https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B004U48OZA/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=allor £430https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B004U4ELPC/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=allor £537 with dual boom armhttps://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B004V1M412/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=allBarlow lens is £39 on amazonIf they look like a fair price and Optika don't come back or are much more expensive, I will get the cheapest as they are all the same product (except for double boom arm one)

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 01:32:01 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 21, 2020, 02:30:23 pmThey're 3 different models (doh) SM-3NTP, SM-3T and SM-3BThe SM-3NTP, is that similar to the 745NTB?

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 02:03:48 pm
content: I think I'm getting my wires crossed.I presumed the SM-3NTP and SM-4NTP had different heads to the SM745NTP,but the SM-3NTP is the SM745NTP head with single boom arm package, and the 4NTP is the same head and dual boom arm package.Ordering the 3NTP now

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 02:28:56 pm
content: I prefer dual arm boom stands as they let you quickly slide the head toward and away from the stand. With a single arm, you have to unclamp the head, move it, make it vertical again, and then re-clamp it. Past Amscope's dual arm stands came with soft shafts, however, that became grooved and ornery over time. People used to fix that by substituting properly hardened shaft stock. Did Amscope ever address that?I am not crazy about Amscope's published microscope images. This one is only in good focus over the inner third (by area) of the field of view:A competent effort with an achromat objective should manage twice that, ca. 60%. Perhaps, you get a better view through the eyepieces.ADDENDUM:What may have happened, here, is that Amscope did not tilt the specimen to make it perpendicular to the lens that provided the picture. This is an issue with Greenough designs at higher magnifications: on, say, the left side, the focus sits too high; on the right, it sits too low. If this at a low magnification, however, the optics are not quite right.ADDENDUM x 2:No, strike that idea: I suspect mediocre optics. It looks just as bad toward the top and bottom as left and right.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 02:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 21, 2020, 02:30:23 pmBedazzled (1967) is biting 1960s comedy that wears very well, decades later. Our university film group liked it so much, we showed it each Spring.Moore makes a Faustian bargain that grants him seven wishes in exchange for his soul. The film follows him as he tries ever harder to realize a wish that he can be happy with, which Cook then frustrates, each time, in some clever way: because he is the devil and the devil is in the details. ("It's nothing personal", he says, he is just being the devil.)

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 02:39:22 pm
content: Was an extra £150 for the dual boom, would rather spend that elsewhere at the moment, need to get light ring and barlow 0.5xI presume these two are the same?https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007LBD8KA/?coliid=I3MONF6Z0YDK41&colid=L5N3DCOD52K1&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_ithttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Auxiliary-Objective-Microscope-Industry-Mounting/dp/B07MX3XS6H/sorry for the continual questions but really appreciate all the helpmany thanks

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 03:06:41 pm
content: The two sure look like they copy the same archetype.Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 22, 2020, 02:39:22 pmYou are welcome and don't worry about asking questions. Microscopes have their complications and I think it better to recognize and dispose of them earlier rather than later. Just make sure the vendor will make things right, at their expense, not yours, if something arises. Or bet small sums to pay for things to try, that you can be philosophical about losing.Come to think of it, I have what appears to be that 0.5X auxiliary objective, that I had bought on speculation and did not use. If you are interested, I could dig up what I paid for it and sell it for, say, half that, plus postage.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 04:18:31 pm
content: If you're in the UK, try Brunel Microscopes.They have very high quality microscopes, their own branded ones, and some secondhand examples of both.http://www.brunelmicroscopessecure.co.uk/acatalog/Stereo-microscopes.htmlI've got a Wild M3Z (came from a BAE auction, not Brunel). It's excellent but ebay samples are usually over £1000. It has the 0.5x Barlow many people recommend, a good working distance, and a very large and heavy stand with a long boom. So although the head can still get in the way, it doesn't overbalance.There's currently a listing for a Wild dual-boom stand with a lesser (but probably still very good) head on it and it's in your price range. But ask them about accessories for the head that's fitted - you don't want an orphan.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 04:24:29 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on April 22, 2020, 03:06:41 pmMany thanks, I asked Amscope a load of questions including warranty, they got back each time within about 10 mins, here is part of their responses.QuoteThanks for your offer, I'd imagine 1/2 what you paid plus postage would be around the £20 mark, one of the links above is only £25.99 and of course I will have the warranty (not that a lot can go wrong), with the lockdown etc it's probably not worth the hassle.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 04:34:36 pm
content: Quote from: artag on April 22, 2020, 04:18:31 pmMany thanksI did check Brunel and for what appears to be the same as I'm getting from Amscope, Amscope total price delivered is £510, Brunel price is £680.Just had a look at the wild, it's £850 (£708.33 + vat) and doesn't take a camera

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 04:43:13 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 22, 2020, 04:24:29 pmThe answers sound pretty good. I assume you can fall back on Amazon and/or a credit card?QuoteI get $11.45 + €5.55 postage = £14.10 at today's rate. I have no idea how long it would take to get to you.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 04:58:48 pm
content: OK soldAs long as it's 48mm and presuming it's in new condition (no marks on lens)How do you want paying? send me a PMthanks

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:06:00 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 22, 2020, 04:34:36 pmThe Wild M3(x)/M7(x)/M8/M10 microscopes all have infinity optics that let you insert a photo tube and many other fun options, between the zoom unit and the binocular head. With a little patience, you can get the tube and thread adapters for a micro four thirds camera for perhaps another £300. That may sound like a lot, but then the microscope and accessories are very well built and with a little care will outlast you. And should you should grow tired of them, you can likely sell the lot for what you paid for it. In the meantime, it is no exaggeration that the Wild's workmanship and imaging will blow the doors off the Amscope.

author: JDubU
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:20:44 pm
content: HobGoblyn;While you decide on/wait for your new microscope, you can work around your original problem by putting your current microscope on an elevated platform.The platform can be something like this:https://www.amazon.com/Construction-Fashionable-Adjustable-Non-Skid-Computer/dp/B075BRNDTR?ref_=ast_bbp_dpor this:https://www.amazon.com/Large-Monitor-Stand-Computer-Screens/dp/B07H8NHR8Nor you can make one yourself out of wood.Since your Swift S41 has a very large working distance and can also lower its head over most of that same distance, you can raise the base above the work and lower the head to get it into focus range.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:31:18 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on April 22, 2020, 05:06:00 pmThanks.Not saying it's a bad deal, just that it's a bit out of my current budget (well there's a few other things I need to get from my current budget, don't want to spend more than £700 in total on microscope, light ring etc)

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:34:22 pm
content: Quote from: artag on April 22, 2020, 04:18:31 pmIt would be nice to know what "contemporary" microscope is on that massive Wild boom stand. I am not entirely sure it is an M3Z. I do not think I have seen one in a ring mount.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 05:44:38 pm
content: Quote from: HobGoblyn on April 22, 2020, 05:31:18 pmThat is understandable. It would be a bit like buying a classic Mercedes. I think you are going to be more than happy enough with the Amscope: with its more versatile optics, accommodating stand and convenient lighting. Also, if you need a microscope camera port, you can generally get a better deal on a microscope that has one, rather than buying and adding one later.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 06:00:59 pm
content: Whether I need a camera port is an interesting question.I don't intend to do youtube clips etc, but just having the ability to take a screen shot from the PC when I need help is going to be very useful.Likewise having pic on one screen while researching board on the other would probably be useful.I don't intend to ask my darling wife if she minds me spending another x amount on another microscope in the next few years (and if this lasts, ever) hence the ability to add one made sense.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 06:17:15 pm
content: With less expensive microscopes, you almost always have to buy a model with a photo tube and can not add one later.The Wild microscopes and their "common main objective" peers were designed to be used for decades, for tasks that were not always known at the time of purchase. They had to be flexible.Amscope sells a line ofCMO microscopesthat are many times more expensive than the SM-3NTP and SM-4NTP. Perhaps that is why no one seems to write about them.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 07:45:36 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on April 22, 2020, 02:28:56 pmAccording to all the youtube vids I've watched, the camera quality they show is nowhere near the quality of looking through the lenses, a few have stressed that the image on their screens simply doesn't do it justice.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2020, 10:25:59 pm
content: Quote from: jfiresto on April 22, 2020, 05:34:22 pmI suspect it's one of their own - if it were anything recognisable I'm sure they'd say so. That said, it does appear to have the Wild style swinging eyetubes for interpupillary adjustment rather than the swivelling eyepieces of their own stereo heads.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 04:44:55 pm
content: Ordered last Wednesday, microscope in USA, arrives at my house this morning in the UK. Very impressed.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 27, 2020, 06:41:28 pm
content: And it's assembled. Very very very very pleased with it, and that's looking through it without a light ring (due wednesday)Going to have to rethink slightly where everything is, but very happy.Also going to have to get a much smaller dust cover that just covers the headMany thanks for all your help

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2020, 09:34:25 pm
content: Quote from: voltsandjolts on April 20, 2020, 04:34:53 pmI remember Dave talking about the camera attachment , and an earlier type had issues and another type was recommended - but do not remember which mount was recommended , kinda guessing the one in you list may not be , no sure ?Thanks

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 01:11:16 am
content: Another question I had , is there a protective lens for the Barlow .5 lens , against smoke & solder splatter ?

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 01:29:26 am
content: Yes, it screws into the 48mm female threads at the bottom of the 0.5X lens.

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 09:23:23 am
content: Quote from: jfiresto on May 03, 2020, 01:29:26 amIs that an additional purchase?

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 10:20:23 am
content: Of coursealthough they need not be expensive. I can not find any from Amazon that mention or appear to be coated, so imagine most are not. Uncoated should not be worse than looking through a clean, single-pane window.ADDENDUM: If it were my microscope, I would probably try a 48-52 step up thread adapter and then go to town with 52 mmcamera filters: protective, UV, polarizing, ....

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 10:41:50 am
content: ThanksUnless I buy from China, they cost more than I can buy a new 0.5 for lolEdit, just read your edit, will take a look

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 11:02:26 am
content: A sheet of uncoated glass transmits ca. 90% of the light passing through it. The issue is the remaining 10% is mostly reflected and may produce ghosts of bright spots and bright areas. You can get some not super expensive camera filters that suffer much less of that, that are tested in the link I added to my previous amended post.A thread adapter also allows you to test a much greater variety of filters, if you happen to suffer, as some of us do, from perpetual, possibly pathological, tool refinement syndrome.But perhaps I am being too pessimistic and everyone coats their 1X, protective "barlow lenses".

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 11:05:48 am
content: That's better. Adaptor £6.08, Amazon basic 52mm 1x £6.49. Both will be here Tuesday if I order todayAll the 52mm I can see including Amazon one, have UV protection. Does that matter?Edit: I've just read through your link, seems there's a vast difference between various filters whether UV or not.I'll getThis oneinstead for £7.99, will be here in 9 days.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 11:13:24 am
content: Now you are talking. I like this point in the item's description:Quote

author: HobGoblyn
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 11:17:00 am
content: Or do I spend an additional £17 and get the lowest reflection on the link you postedNikon 52Mm Filter Nc Neutral Colour

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2020, 11:44:28 am
content: That is a good question. Are there any camera stores you could visit that would let you look at typical, filtered, shiny or bright objects: to compare a filter that reflects 3% to one that reflects 0.3%? That is outside my experience and I do not know what to tell you.I expect the filter will become a wear item if you will be wafting solder flux smoke into it. Cheaper but good enough may become the right motto.The Royal Mail delivery tracker reports your lens passed through Norwich at 11:23 this morning.