Cheap(er) introduction to FPGAs (aka. is Lattice any good?) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: olewales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2015, 04:33:56 pm
content: I know there is a whole section on the forums dedicated to FPGAs but I reckon this is specifically a beginner issue.I want to introduce myself to programmable logic and hardware description languages. I have basic understanding of logic circuits concepts but no experience at all with VHDL or Verilog. Theoretically I could start learning using simulator but I know it won't be nearly as effective if I can't make some LED blink or observe signal waveforms on the scope. My initial research guided me towards Altera FPGAs because less features seems to be cut out of the free version of their software and programmer seems to be cheaper (even the Chinese knockoff of Xilinx platform cable costs about $30, compared to $5 for Altera's USB Blaster clone). I was initially aiming atTerasic DE0-nano development boardbut it is quite pricey in my country. Even not taking currency purchasing power into consideration its about $120 shipped. Yes, it has nice big FPGA on it I doubt I'll ever do very advanced stuff in it. I was thinking about applications similar to what Mike showed in his video.(edit: I didn't know that pasting link to YT video automatically embeds it)Also, I must admit that Quartus II feels a bit intimidating for a noob like me.I started looking atLattice MachXO2 Breakout Boardthat Mike recommended. Unfortunately farnell/Element14 does not seem to have it in their listings but even at my local, expensive distributor its less than half the price of DE0-nano. What also got my interest isICE40HX1K-STICK-EVN "Icestick".Is Lattice in general good choice for a beginner? I know their software is not nearly as advanced as Altera/Xilinx solutions but this may not be a bad thing actually. Will I be able to adapt other HDL tutorials to it relatively easy? (assuming I do my research of course). What about moving out of a devboard? I'd like to stick to manufacturer once I get myself familiar with it. Lattice seems to be more friendly for a hobbyist because of things like integrated oscillators, voltage regulators or flash memory in some of their parts. On the other hand xilinx/altera parts are generally more widely available. I also don't like that Lattice has entirely separate software suites for different product families. Not sure how big of a deal this would be.Alternatively, if I decide to stick to Altera I might look into development boards straight from China. Something likethisorthis. Not sure about documentation but they seem to have lots of peripherals for a very reasonable price. What do you think?

author: ganda
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 10:45:07 am
content: Any particular reason? IMHO Xilinx for signal processing/rf stuff, the rest is Altera.

author: autobot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 12:50:10 pm
content: Xilinx is going to release their new low-end fpga(artix-7) with free high-level fpga language, similar to c - for free(and the sw is availble for high-end chip ,for pay). Depending on your goals , it could save you lots of effort and time, so it could be worthwhile to wait.

author: olewales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 01:32:08 pm
content: Quote from: ganda on November 28, 2015, 10:45:07 amAs I wrote I have no experience with either but my research showed that I might get more for my money going with Altera. For example SignalTap is free with Web edition of Quartus while ChipScope is a paid feature in Xilinx ecosystemQuote from: autobot on November 28, 2015, 12:50:10 pmHonestly, new HDL "invented" by Xilinx does not sound very appealing. As a beginner I'd rather stick to industry standard VHDL or Verilog until I feel somewhat comfortable with fpgasAnyway, I ended up orderingthis boardfor about $25 (after discounts). I expect it to arrive soon (already showed up in my country in package tracking). Hopefully I will manage to get my head around it

author: daybyter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2015, 01:32:42 pm
content: http://m.ebay.com/itm/201070505640?_mwBanner=1

author: olewales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2015, 09:47:46 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 29, 2015, 09:28:38 pmIf you have any additional thoughts then go ahead. It may not help me but I can imagine other people having similar dilemmaQuote from: blueskull on November 29, 2015, 09:28:38 pmCouldn't agree more, but in my case it was all about the cost. As far as I know Xilinx or Altera don't make "small" devboard under their own brand but for a basic board from Digilent in Poland I'd have to pay nearly twice it's value in USDQuote from: blueskull on November 29, 2015, 09:28:38 pmI was thinking about it but since nobody answered my question for quite some time I decided to go with "safe" option. Altera seems to have good amount of documentation and examples and as a beginner I want to have access to as many of those as possible. Besides, the board that I ordered was actually very slightly CHEAPER than the price I'd have to pay for iCEStick (with shipping)

author: mian2zi3
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 03:37:08 am
content: There is another advantage of the Lattice iCEstick and iCE40 FPGAs. If you're interested in not just using the FPGAs but studying the internal details of their architecture and hardware compilation process, the iCE40 FPGAs have been reverse engineered, the bitstream format is documented and there is a completely open-source Verilog development toolchain for them:http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/https://github.com/cseed/arachne-pnrhttp://www.clifford.at/yosys/

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 05:35:21 am
content: Quote from: olewales on November 28, 2015, 01:32:08 pmthe advertisement for this board reads:FPGA development board is no longer a dream!blueeggCock wire technology will give the majority of more surprises!--------------------------------Oh-Oh, that does not sound promising!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 06:42:58 pm
content: Apart from the bad translations it seems like a neat board for just $25, it even comes with the USB blaster built in and seems to have enough documentation (but not sure if that's well translated or translated at all)I'll be interested to hear from olewales once he gets the board some more details.

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2015, 10:28:58 pm
content: There's more to choosing FPGAs than the actual hardware. Altera's documentation is top of the line and one major reason I like to work with their devices. Also, many more use Altera than Lattice so much easier to get support online from people with similar issues.

author: olewales
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2016, 11:12:19 pm
content: Ok, here is my quick followup. I received the board over a month ago and was hoping to write this post after having a good playaround with it but I was (as usual) overly optimistic about time I was able to invest in this so far and my ability to comprehend all those new concepts.The board looks exactly like on photos provided by the seller. To my eye there is nothing wrong with components, soldering or the design. In fact, it seems to be high quality product overall. For example tracks between FPGA and SDRAM chip as well as some of the tracks connected to external IO pins are length-equalized. It's probably not strictly necessary in this case but they took the trouble to do it anyway. Acrylic cover on the top and brass standoffs for a feet are also a nice touch.Board works. It comes pre-programmed with sample application that tests LEDs, LCD and apparently RAM and EEPROM. There is USB-Blaster on board. It needs manual driver installation (despite "driver installation" during Quartus setup) but works fine. I was able to run simple led blinking code on the board (upload to FPGA via JTAG only, did not test programming flash device yet) so it seems to do it's job.Below are full contents of the disc that I was sent with the board. Well, minus Quartus 11 installer that was also there. It works fine with newest Quartus Prime 15.1https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1aq76ha0vlxc65g/AAC0N3hEE9MP9ZV-8ELb2p7La?dl=0As you can see, most docs (manual, HDL references, some datasheets) are in Chinese but that is not a deal breaker. Most importantly board schematics with pin assignments are available. There are also some sample projects in "Demonstration" directory. I suspect that "DEV_C0_MINI_TEST" contains sources for application that the board comes programmed with but I was not able to compile it. Apparently it needs licence for some proprietary IP in the design.Overall I am happy with my purchase. This little board seems to have everything I could wish for right now for a very competitive price. Hopefully I'll manage to get myself familiar with Altera tools so I can start learning about HDL design soon.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2016, 01:10:37 am
content: Thanks for the update and the files