U1242B, 2nd hand 87V or other? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: knotlogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 01:08:16 pm
content: Hi all. First post here and was hoping to get some advice on a new multimeter. I've been using a Fluke 19 for years, and I'm thinking it's about time I considered a change. The background on the LCD is going dark, making it a bit more difficult to read, though it isn't that bad yet. There are also little niggling things about it. On occasion when I turn it on to measure resistance, the readings jump all over with the leads not touching anything. Anyhow that's all a bit OT.So I've been looking at my options, both online and locally, and it looks like the U1242B seems like my best bet. Pricy, but I'm willing to budget for it, and the specs seem better than Flukes in a similar price range. The only other possibility is picking up a second hand Fluke, at which point I might be looking at the 87V. Would that be worth considering? I know Flukes are pretty much legendary for quality, but the downsides that I see are the risks associated with picking something up second hand, and questions as to the warranty situation on such a device.On that note, is anyone familiar with the warranties offered on Agilent (Keysight) DMMs?Are there any other Flukes I should be considering? The 175/177/179 series seem to cost more than the U1242B while offering slightly less in specs.In terms of use case, it's mostly for hobby electronics. A mix of analog and digital low voltage stuff. It would be pretty rare that I'd work at mains voltages, but most decent DMMs shouldn't have a problem with that anyhow I would have thought.Thanks in advance for any advice!

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 03:40:28 pm
content: Habe you considered the Brymen BM869S it tends to be the highest value/$ of the high end multimeters. It's a damn good meter with great safety ratings (UL-listed too) and loads of features. You can get it from TME.eu for a similar price to the U1242B. In the USA it is often sold under the Greenlee name as the DM-860A (but at about double the price). It has a 500,000 count range on DCV and in general performance is similar or slightly better than the Flue 289 IIRC

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 04:49:26 pm
content: What do you intend to measure and what features do you like about your current Fluke meter? In the US the Amprobe AM-270 is an excellent value. Amazon sells it for $110. The AM-270 is a repackage of an older Bryman model (not sure of the exact one). It doesn't have a rubber case/jacket but otherwise is a very well built meter.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teardown-amprobe-am-270-digital-multimeter/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/brymen-bm-867-teardown-pictures/For most I think it makes for a great Fluke 87 alternative at about 1/3rd the price. Note that the continuity is slightly slow and scratchy. Anyway, check out the reviews.If you can find a deal on a Fluke 87-3 or 87-5 I would have trouble picking a meter I like better... but not for list price.

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 08:51:18 pm
content: I have a U1252B and a Fluke. The agilent is an incredible meter, perfectly accurate to the limits of its resolution. The count is very fast, nothing I own can beat it for speed and stability. I bought the IR to Bluetooth adapter and it makes it a very complete package.Without starting a huge debate, If I was to move away from Fluke, Agilent, etc (at a loss to add to this category) to a lesser meter I would just go to VC because I class all the meters below these two into that category. For instance, I bought a VC9806+ for the heck of it because I wanted a large display. That meter doesn't have auto range (which was my preference because of count speed) but it matches my Agilent in all cases. I think I paid $30 with shipping. So when you can get a meter like that, ignoring all the "...I would never measure mains with it!" comments which I find to be silly coming initially from a family of HV electricians, why spend more. My brother who was an HV electrician until retiring to teach, tells me that nearly 100% of the blown meters, explosions, melt downs, etc. are operator errors.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 09:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: cncjerry on June 15, 2015, 08:51:18 pmYou expect to make an assertion like that and expect people to not say anything?Meters are built to a safety standard for a reason. One person's anecdotal evidence does not negate the fact that people have died or have been injured by using meters that were not built properly. One of the reasons that proper meters are built to a standard is to help avoid injury from user error too.Other good meters other than already mentioned to consider up to the $200 range include:Brymen BM857s, 50,000/500,000 counts, better specs than the U1242B, $140 +shippingBrymen BM829s, 10,000/6,000 counts, better specs again, dual display, $160 +shippingBrymen BM257s, 6,000 counts, slightly less specs than U1242B, $135 shipped to your doorUni-T UT139C, 6,000 counts, much lower specs but still good, $50 shipped to your doorUni-T UT171A, 40,000 counts, better specs, PC cable and software included, $185 from ebay including shippingThere are also some Amprobe meters like the AM-570, 37XR-A, BK Precision 393, 2712 and some others. There is no need to cheap out on a poorly built meter just to not pay a high price.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 12:28:21 am
content: Given your typical uses best to go for a meter with a good range of features, and that is not usually associated with the flukes 87V.I do own an U1242b and its good to use. Quick Measurements useful range of features.The display is a little bit small for my aging eyes but the contrast and viewing angle make up for that.Can data log, but will require an add on bracket to allow connection to a pc via the bluetooth or USB IR cable which is weird given all the other Keysight meters have their casings moulded to accept the interfaces !.If your willing to budget for a decent meter then as pointed out don't cheap out, but do look at the range available beside the 1242As for the fluke 19, maybe a good clean of the input terminal area is needed to see if that stops the random readings on the OHMS mode.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 05:20:36 am
content: 2nd hand Fluke is a good way to go. You can get a brand new 87-V on ebay for about $240 if you wait around for one for about a week or two. You can find a used 87V for $200 on Ebay, 87-III for like $170, 87 for even less. 87s are legendary. People talk about non Fluke meters having more features, but I can't think of a single feature I miss on my 87. I think it's the best meter ever made, when it comes to ergonomics and just the all around feature set and build quality. Fluke has the best reputation, everyone else is having to boast features to try and compete. 87's feature set is pretty comprehensive anything more are usually gimmicks at the expense of ergonomics.For your day to day general purpose meter you will not find better than an 87, different maybe but not better.You can also get one of the other less popular models for less. For instance if you don't really need True RMS, 83 is great and can be scored for less as well.I just scored a 27 series II for $92 with free shipping. It's a little dirty and will need cleaning but for that price it's an absolute steal. The thing with Flukes is there are always tons of them on Ebay, so you can always get a great deal.28, 27 and 25 (non series II) are these older super rugged Fluke meters, weather sealed, and because they were bought by military and contractors in bulk you can find tons of them on Ebay for less than $100. Actually you can probably get one for about $50 if you shop around. All grey are older versions, all yellow are little newer, and the yellow with charcoal faceplate are the latest gen 27/25s, which were still made up until 2010 or so.The great thing about buying a Fluke meter on Ebay is if you don't like it you can always sell it back for the same price. There is a healthy 2nd hand supply and demand which is not true for the other brands.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:00:35 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 16, 2015, 05:20:36 amThat is anexcellentprice for a Fluke 27 II.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:01:57 am
content: Quote from: knotlogic on June 15, 2015, 01:08:16 pmIf you are going to take apart the Fluke 19 to clean the rotary switch as suggested, plase take some pictures of the internal pcb so we can see what it looks like on the inside.

author: knotlogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:17:15 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on June 15, 2015, 03:40:28 pmActually yes. I've been poking around the forum here for a while and the Brymen seems to be a solid piece of kit. The drawbacks are I haven't seen them available here, and their own webpage doesn't list distributors. Sure I could contact them or maybe order from TME, but the thing is I'm somewhat wary of something supported by a smaller local agent - customer service is still a largely alien concept over here! And to be honest, I hadn't heard of TME before. This it not to knock either Brymen or TME, but I'm just thinking I might want to stick with something easier to acquire and seek out support on.Also if I were to go that route, I'd stick to a Brymen instead of a rebadge. This is a case where I'd feel more comfortable with the OEM.All that said, the one thing I'm wary of is the 9V cell and the quoted run time on the BM869S. That may have more to do with my experience with my Fluke 19 though... (see below)Quote from: Robomeds on June 15, 2015, 04:49:26 pmWell currently I'm getting back into microcontroller/embedded stuff. It's been a while since I touched it. But some of the other stuff I've dabbled in are headphone amps and LED drivers for the >1W stuff. Probably once I'm done with these current projects I'll finally get around to tackling nixie tubes. Might be a while though.It's hard to say what I like about my current Fluke. I tend to not think about the stuff that works and am drawn towards the stuff that doesn't. I guess one of the nicest things about it is the reputation. It's nice to think that I have a piece of kit that does what it claims and I don't have to second guess it when I'm trying to troubleshoot something. (Funny how often that does actually happen.) But at the same time it is quirky. I've never quite trusted its capacitance measurements, and it absolutely requires a zinc-carbon cell. Putting an alkaline cell in it leads to weird behaviour... which I don't understand.I guess a significant chunk of this decision is also about peace of mind. I'd trust a Fluke, even more so than an Agilent and that's knowing full well how big Agilent is and being a very happy user of their scopes myself. But the cost of a Fluke puts a new one with the "right" specs out of my budget. So it's be an eBay 87V or... nothing?Quote from: Muxr on June 16, 2015, 05:20:36 amI've not seen a 87V going for $240 yet, though that does put it in range of TEquipment.NET prices on a U1242B (and I heard there's a forum discount...). But again, my concern is if a 2nd hand 87V (or a new eBay unit) is still covered by a warranty. Plus there is the fact that the U1242B might actually be a better meter for me specwise... Though I may be wrong on that point.In all honesty, I'm aware that any of the meters discussed above might be overkill for my needs. But I figure I've had my Fluke 19 for what... about 15 years now? And getting one of these would be a nice little something for myself.

author: knotlogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:21:15 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 16, 2015, 06:01:57 amUh, yeah. So I was skimming though one of Dave's videos and he mentioned the 19 in passing. That there are none of them still alive out there or something like that. Well... mine still works! Though to be fair I've been careful with it and not gotten to use it as much as I'd have liked over the years.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:34:04 am
content: Quote from: knotlogic on June 16, 2015, 06:17:15 amAny Fluke meter purchased from ebay will not be covered under Fluke's warranty regardless if it is new or used because ebay is not an authorized Fluke dealer.Having said that, you might get lucky with warranty service as reported by some. Here is a recent example of someone buying a Fluke meter off ebay and getting it serviced for under warranty for free.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-287(9)-leaking-super-cap/However, your mileage may vary.You can reduce your risk by having patience and buying an used Fluke 87V in the $130 or less. Here is 3 recent examples if you are patient.http://www.ebay.com/itm/161700441429http://www.ebay.com/itm/151662177608http://www.ebay.com/itm/151661631283You can also look at your local craigslist or pawn shops for potentially good deals.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:42:47 am
content: I forgot to mention that warranty only applies to the original owner who purchased the meter from an authorized Fluke dealer.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 06:42:53 am
content: Quote from: cncjerry on June 15, 2015, 08:51:18 pmOh, isthatthe reason they bother putting fuses in them and paying for UL certification, etc.? I never would have guessed.I guess you prefer your airliners without stall warning systems, etc., too. 'Plane crashes are are just "pilot error", right?

author: kasone
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 01:00:44 pm
content: If you think a Fluke is best, then you will not be satisfied with anything else. As to Fluke service see my post about my experience with Fluke service. I even told the Fluke representative that answered the phone that I was not the original purchaser of the 177.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-service/msg658077/#msg658077

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 01:50:29 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 16, 2015, 05:20:36 amI think I was bidding on that same meter... it was about $60 or so with just 4 minutes left. I agree the 27-II is a great deal compared to the price of an 87 if you don't need it. What I don't really get is the high price of the older 87-1 and 87-2 meters. Nice meters and all but very expensive for the features and compared to some of the other brands.

author: knotlogic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 11:33:34 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 16, 2015, 06:42:47 amThanks, that's really helpful to know.Quote from: kasone on June 16, 2015, 01:00:44 pmQuote from: retiredcaps on June 16, 2015, 06:42:47 amGlad it worked out for you. Realistically I guess it wouldn't be practical for them to insist on proof of purchase if you'd had it for years, though they might have everything on file somewhere. Suspect it may largely depend on who happens to pick up the phone that day...I think I'll go take another look at the Brymens, it'll probably be one of those or the Agilent.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2015, 06:00:20 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on June 17, 2015, 01:50:29 amYeah I think that's the one, sorryIf you're patient you can usually get the original 87 for $100-$130 I think that's a good value. It is not that much different than an 87-V. Mainly being lack of temp measurement and high res mode. It is still a great quality meter. You might get an issue with the fading screen, but that often can be fixed with just some rubbing alcohol.The main reason I prefer 87s over other DMMs is fast latching continuity, and overall ergonomics and build quality. If you want to save a few bucks but get a newish DMM I really like the 83-V. It's basically just like the 87-1, but newer without True RMS (which I don't find to be a big handicap). And you can often get them fairly cheaply. I got mine for $40 but it needed to be repaired (missing fuses and damaged battery connector).Here is my collection of 80s:

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 18, 2015, 11:21:25 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 18, 2015, 06:00:20 pmFor the original 87 series I, you can get it under $100. All the 87s (I, II, III and V) support high resolution mode or 20,000 count mode. The I, II and III updates at 1/sec and the V updates at 4/sec in 20,000 count mode.Quote$40 is an excellent price for a 83V despite the missing fuse and damaged battery connector. I would easily buy it for that price.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 01:09:11 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 18, 2015, 11:21:25 pmI stand corrected on the 87-I, for some reason I thought it didn't have 20,000 count. That's cool.Yeah the 83V I got for $40 was listed for parts, I had spare fuses laying around already. Just spliced and added a new 9V battery connector, used some shrink tubing with a heat gun to protect it, it's basically like brand new now. It's in good shape too (1st one on the left in that pic I posted). Really happy with the score.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 01:22:09 am
content: I should also add. Wasn't so lucky on the 27 series II I mentioned previously. Just got it today. It cleaned up nicely. Ran it through its paces. Everything was in order until I got to the continuity test. Tried a few continuity tests and it displayed the battery warning. Which I found odd. Pulled out the batteries and they were all showing 1.5v.Put the new batteries in just in case and I got the same thing. Basically went to a few troubleshooting steps and it turns out the buzzer on it is shorted. It works but when the buzzer is engaged the meter is pulling 200mA, which is dropping the battery voltage and triggering the low battery lockout. Resistance on the buzzer is 16 Ohms which I don't think it's right. Meter works fine in the Beep off power on mode.Removed the SMD buzzer, but I couldn't find the exact part or a datasheet for it anywhere. Markings on it are Greek Delta logo: SWP OSI 127C4 1112. Hooked up a scope to it using some wrapping wires, signal showed 9V peak to peak. So I got a few similar ones from Digikey, and we'll see how they work.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 05:16:27 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 19, 2015, 01:09:11 amFluke meters that are listed for parts can be a good deal, but you have to be careful in what you pay and buy.With all modern handheld Fluke meters, they are all software calibrated meaning no pots to turn. If you buy one that is out of calibration, expect to pay $$$ for it negating any potential savings. With the older 80 series I, II and III, there is a pot that you can turn.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 05:21:12 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 19, 2015, 01:22:09 amPossibly known problem? Seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-28-ii-battery-life/I suggest you send it in for a shipping cost of $10 USD (get insurance and tracking) and see if Fluke will fix it for free under warranty. Don't say anything about buying it from ebay unless asked.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 12:20:37 pm
content: Bummer I missed that thread when searching for this issue. I've already removed the part. The issue is confirmed by other folks as well. Some suggest using the same buzzer with a series resistor works as a fix. Will try a different Buzzer and will post results in that thread when I get the parts.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 12:46:55 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 19, 2015, 05:16:27 amThat's an interesting point. I haven't needed to calibrate any of mine since they have all been well within their spec. However the calibration mode is accessible as a power on mode. Is it just that we're missing the cal procedure? Could it be calibrated using the calibration mode?https://youtu.be/C4UCdc4A18k?t=364edit: Fuke has the calibration manual on their website:http://media.fluke.com/documents/8xv_____cmeng0100.pdfProvided the meter is using the default password: "1234" should be straight forward. Even with a diff. password it should be brute forceable with 4 digits. Time consuming though.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 03:15:51 pm
content: AFAIK, the calibration mode of the 87V is not easy to DIY. I tried it once. Once engaged, you must complete all functions or ranges, from top to bottom, even if just one range needs adjusting, or it will not be accepted. If you do not have all the required test references you cannot complete it e.g. obscure stuff like variable frequency high AC voltages and 10A AC and DC are not easy to find in reference quality. The 87V was designed to use the automated calibrator which provides all those references quickly and in rapid succession.OTAH, the Keysight meters are made similarly, like the 1272a or 1242a, you can adjust any single range, any single function, in any order. This is closer to the pot based adjustment where you can do only what you need to do. I was able to adjust one DC range in a brand new 1272a that was way off but still in spec without affecting the rest of the DMM. Something to consider when buying a DMM.Note, once you calibrate them, they go off very very rarely, even if Fluke or Keysight recommend every 1-2 years respectively, they stay in cal for decades. The only time I've seen the good quality DMMs drift is when pot based DMMs take a very hard fall, and on any, when the protect circuits are triggered; e.g. if during auto range measurement of some low volt energized circuit, the meter goes into OVERLOAD then recovers, consider a re-check of its accuracy.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 05:11:55 pm
content: I certainly don't have the 600V 10Khz reference grade source nor the 6A source. You're right, doing the a DYI calibration on a newer Fluke doesn't seem likely.Someone who works for a service who calibrates made a post while back,https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/calibration-fluke-87v-what's-the-correct-price/msg373874/#msg373874$65 for calibration. They are in my state too. So that's an option if I ever need it.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 19, 2015, 07:48:29 pm
content: Yes its very reasonable and well worth it, considering you may end up doing it fairly rarely. Your link and the items I discuss on that thread cover the issues.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 05:07:35 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 18, 2015, 06:00:20 pmIf you are really patient you can do better than that. I got my first 87-3 for $50. I just randomly checked ebay on morning (about 8 years back) and saw a buy it now for $50. The current fuses were both blown but otherwise it was in great shape. I ended up selling it for about $160 and used that to by an 87-5 for about even money. I actually like the 87-3's display better. It was easier to read. However, the temp measurements make the 87-5 worth it to me.I picked up a Matco branded 87-3 for about $80. It was dirty but actually in very good shape once I really cleaned it. That was also a few years back. I also scored an 187 for $120. It needed to have the battery contacts cleaned but works nicely otherwise.I do think the prices have gone up a bit recently. I suspect that is a sign the economy is doing better. However, I think if you are really diligent you can find 87-3's or 87-5's for under $150. You might have to look for alternative names etc. It's a bit of, how much time do you want to spend.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2015, 05:12:56 am
content: Quote from: Muxr on June 19, 2015, 01:22:09 amThanks for the update on that. I previously had a 27-2 with that issue. I ended up sending it back to the seller since it was listed as fully functional. I like your 83-5 better than the one I just picked up. I got one for $55 but it's quite dirty and doesn't clean up that well. Still, it works well... not that I need it with all my other meters...

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 09:18:05 pm
content: So I ended up just throwing in a little SMD 805 series current limiting resistor as a suggested fix. Meter works great now.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 09:51:46 pm
content: What is your current draw with the modification now?

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 09:56:42 pm
content: I was too lazy to measure (it's kind of awkward with the way the meter closes). But I am curious myself, so I will open it up and measure. Will post back.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2015, 10:27:08 pm
content: - 71.56 mA with highest intensity backlight and continuity latched test on. (this was over 200mA before the mod)- 49.62 mA with low intensity backlight and continuity latched on.- 33.25 mA with just the highest intensity backlight- 37.93 mA no backlight just continuity latched on.- 3.93 mA no backlight, continuity latched off.I used a 100ohm resistor, the buzzer is little on the quiet side but still audible, I think this is a common complaint even for the unmodded meters of this model. I actually kind of like it, as I don't work in loud environments and the usual beepers tend to be too loud. My dog is actually sensitive to the loud beeps.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2015, 06:19:40 am
content: Thanks for sharing the data and I'm glad you got it fixed.