good, but cheap cross slide vise suggestions? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 02:59:29 am
content: So, I broke down and got the cheapest Harbor Freightdrill presswhen it was on sale and ended up getting a pretty decent one, its not super noisy at all and it is solid and doesn't have any visible wobble. (so I am guessing the runout is decent) I paid just a bit more than $55 with shipping, which is great deal, I think.I haven't really done much with it yet though because I don't have any means of safely holding work pieces yet, so now I am looking for a vise of some kind, and if I can afford one I would like to get something I can clamp PCBs as well as other things in that lets me move them around in the X and Y axes, where the drill can come down through the target object and pierce it.BTW, the drill has turned out nicer than I expected, it doesn't look cheap either. It looks better in real life than it does in their catalogs. Its also much quieter than I expected. Its top speed isn't that high, though, around 3000 RPM.However, it does seem to be extremely versatile so I hope to be able to use it for general drilling of holes in cases of various kinds as well as for some wood stuff. The thing that I like is that it goes perfectly up and down and there is no wobble that I can see so far.Hopefully I can maintain it in this state of good adjustment.So now I need some means of holding the things that I drill precisely. There are a bunch of cross slide vises on ebay for around $35. Again I really can't spend a lot of money. So, basic is what I want, a good all around but basic tool.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 03:15:41 am
content: I am very happy with my Harbor Freight drill press, but have examined all of the HF cross slide vises in the store and found all to be terrible. Even the best is barely usable, so I can tell you don't go there.Unfortunately I don't have any positive recommendations.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 03:25:18 am
content: Don't buy one of these - they are rubbish. Mine sits on the floor under a bench.http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_17674.jpgSomething like this is better but not as good as the old 1960's ones. You need to bolt a machine vice to the top.https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M198If you can find an old industrial / commercial unit second hand that might be the best solution.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 03:31:14 am
content: I have aProxxon KT70compound table ($90ish on Amazon). It's reasonably precise and robust, and feels fairly well made. It stands up tolightmilling on my terrible POS of a drill press. Only thing to keep in mind is the reduced Z height - if your drill press is already feeling a bit cramped, this is not going to help.For drilling PCBs I recommend using a compound table and a sacrificial underlay compared to trying to clamp the board in a vise. It makes it much easier to get decent results, and setup is substantially quicker as you don't have to faff around with getting the board clamped straight.Also, I've had quite good results with using an engraving V cutter for simple PCB jobs (I needed some boards with a copper plane split in two, and this was cleaner than free-handing it with a knife).

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 03:56:01 am
content: I share others feelings about the vises on the Harbor Press site. It seems they sell the drill presses for cheap but the vises they sell don't look so attractive price wise. Some of what appear to be basically the same products appear to be on ebay for half as much. .

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 04:07:57 am
content: I rarely use a vise for any drill press work excepting when drillinglarge(1"+) holes with high powered equipment.Otherwise work isalwayson a timber block and if there is risk of not holding against the torque then long handled Polygrips or similar are used.2 fingers pressing on a PCB are adequate for drilling anything but massive holes.Like with all drilling it pays tomuch reducedrilling pressure just before break through.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 04:15:01 am
content: You mean a well cut (90 degree square) rectangular piece of wood, which you clamp the PCB to, right?Also, by a v-cutter you mean the router type bits (and then perform the movement with the X-Y table?) That is definitely one of the main things I want to use this drill for, if possible. Quick one off engraving away of the top layer of PCB material. The Proxxon looks nice and doesnt actually appear to be a bad deal when comparing it to many of the others, if its solid. Its still more than I want to pay. At least now. I wonder if I could make something out of photographic macro focusing rails?Currently I have some small clamps (the kind you use for gluing things) and a piece of wood underneath.Quote from: ovnr onTodayat 22:31:14Proxxon KT70compound table ($90ish on Amazon). It's reasonably precise and robust, and feels fairly well made. It stands up tolightmilling on my terrible POS of a drill press. Only thing to keep in mind is the reduced Z height - if your drill press is already feeling a bit cramped, this is not going to help.For drilling PCBs I recommend using a compound table and a sacrificial underlay compared to trying to clamp the board in a vise. It makes it much easier to get decent results, and setup is substantially quicker as you don't have to faff around with getting the board clamped straight.Also, I've had quite good results with using an engraving V cutter for simple PCB jobs (I needed some boards with a copper plane split in two, and this was cleaner than free-handing it with a knife).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 11:30:11 am
content: Quote from: DTJ on January 17, 2017, 03:25:18 amThey still make them? I got mine over 25 years ago and I have used it (modified with better handles and the option to fit rails+clamps for larger pieces) for milling aluminium and wood on a (slightly modified) drill press with reasonable results. The problem is that it will take a whole lot of money to get out of the cheap Chinese crap arena.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 02:39:39 pm
content: Still made and sold here in Oz for around $100.I modified the handles on mine too and added bearings to the lead screws at the handle end. I wanted it for very light milling on a heavy drill press.It almost worked ok!

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 09:15:49 pm
content: These are probably too expensive, but I think it might be useful as a frame of reference:http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=-888582885These are Chinese mini mill XY tables. For that you get reasonably accurate leadscrews (so the you can use the dials on them for measurement), adjustable gibs and a flat cast iron table. I have no experience with that Proxon one but it seems like a good compromise price wise between these and those inevitably horrible drill press XY vices.

author: RandallMcRee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2017, 11:17:15 pm
content: I have the big harbor freight drill press vice.It's cheap and its usable. I took it apart and put it back together to get some play out, but not all. No way.If you want to drill several one inch holes in thick aluminum or steel stock you definitely need something like it. For precision, no, not useful. A drill press vise (maybe not a cross slide) is necessary for any large drill bits into metal.Randy

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 12:41:21 am
content: There are a great variety of these X-Y tables/compound tables on ebay here in the US and their prices are all over the map. It seems like perhaps it might be possible to get a decent one for around $100 or even less. The Proxxon one seems to sell for as little as $77 on ebay.It would be nice to get one that I could attach to a stepper motor in the future. Kind of DIY/ghetto CNC just for fun, say to speed up drilling.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 01:02:54 am
content: If it is a real Proxxon I'd get that because of the better quality control.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 02:55:58 am
content: Quote from: cdev on January 18, 2017, 12:41:21 amThe Proxxon should work well for that; just remove the handwheels and add a coupler and stepper. Then figure out some way to mount said steppers - shouldn't be too hard, but it'll depend a bit on your drill press.Your main issue when automating it - or just milling - will be the Z axis, as a drill press is not really meant to do anything but move up and down (in a somewhat vague and non-reassuring manner).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 11:47:07 am
content: IMHO a much better upgrade would be a digital position readout. Steppers won't do you any good without a read back anyway because it is very easy to miss a step if (for example) the load is stuck and then everything will be off.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2017, 10:05:11 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 18, 2017, 11:47:07 amTrue. This thing is pretty damn small, however, and the old trick of mounting a cheap digital caliper on it isn't really going to be very viable. Not sure if there are any other, smaller solutions?

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2017, 02:49:36 am
content: Quote from: ovnr on January 18, 2017, 10:05:11 pmI fitted two of these to my lathe (they are available with longer encoder slides):http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-150mm-Vertical-Digital-DRO-Large-Remote-LCD-Readout-Scale-For-Bridgeport-Mill-/301820188090

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 19, 2017, 03:12:29 am
content: I bought a couple of sets of those cheap DRO rails from Halfco when they were clearing them out years ago for peanuts and I made a 600mm long set of vernier calipers out of them which came in really handy when I was building the CNC machine, I probably should post a picture of the calipers but I like to keep some secrets to myself.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2017, 03:23:38 pm
content: There is an Inkscape extension to do encoders, might be possible to make custom encoders for "positional awareness" ?

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2017, 01:12:58 am
content: That's for rotary encoders. You want a linear encoder for this sort of application.Also, the ones DTJ linked to are way too large. Remember, this thing has like 100-150mm by 80mm travel, and it's pretty darn small in general.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2017, 04:52:33 am
content: Quote from: ovnr on January 20, 2017, 01:12:58 amThey are large and heavy but I find that adds to the stability, both through the mass and the construction.But I guess most people don't have a big or heavy enough drill press to use them so you are probably correct.I often use my 200kg drill press with a 0.6mm HSS bit in the chuck, nice and smooth with no vibration.

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2017, 10:49:45 pm
content: Quote from: ovnr on January 18, 2017, 02:55:58 amA lot of people have done, that, including me. Attaching the steppers and mounting them is not too difficult (see attached pic for my setup). My photo shows a proxxon MF70 mill, but it has the same crossslide.

author: ovnr
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 01:16:27 am
content: Quote from: mathsquid on January 21, 2017, 10:49:45 pmNEMA 17 steppers, right? How fast can you run it (just movement, no milling load) without it getting uppity and losing steps?

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2017, 03:51:27 pm
content: Quote from: ovnr on January 22, 2017, 01:16:27 amYes. Those are NEMA 17s coupled to the knobs. As for how fast I run it with no milling, I haven't done any serious testing to see how fast I can get it to go. I used an ATMega328p running at 16Mhz, and I believe that the motor could keep up with the controller with no extra delay coded in on top of the delay that was already there due to loading the shift registers that controller the motors. I'd add in additional delay to slow it down when milling, but it was all just trial and error.Edit: You can see some pics from when I built the motor mounts on my blog athttp://mathsquid.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=15.