Metcal MX-500 dual ouputs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 10:34:43 pm
content: I often use two soldering irons simultaneously to remove components from a board.I'm thinking of getting a Metcal MX-500 that has dual outputs, my rational is replace two mediocre soldering stations with one good (dual) soldering station. I now see there is a control that appears to either select one output or the other but not both.Can any MX-500 users confirm that you can only use one output at a time?

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 10:36:25 pm
content: you're correct. it's a switchable 2-port unit. one iron is powered at a time.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 10:58:26 pm
content: The MX-5200 has simultaneous outputs, however warm-up time on switch-over is quick enough when switching that it's not a big inconvenience

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 16, 2016, 11:23:00 pm
content: I will consider the 5200 then, thank you.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 08:34:31 am
content: Quote from: Jester on May 16, 2016, 11:23:00 pmI have the 5200 (I did a video on it a long time ago). It's worth it if you plan to use the Metcal desolder gun as that does take quite a while to get up to temperature, but otherwise as Mike said the iron is hot in a second or two.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2016, 05:40:14 pm
content: Two soldering irons to remove an component?, what about tweezers?https://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx8804.htmletc...

author: Wirehead
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 06:37:00 am
content: What's the advantage of a tweezer system when comparing to a hot-air station and regular tweezers? Seems to me like that would be a more useful addition to the bench?

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 06:40:38 am
content: Quote from: Wirehead on May 19, 2016, 06:37:00 amQuote from: Jester on May 16, 2016, 10:34:43 pmInstead of this I would guess it gives lot of advantages.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 07:15:06 am
content: Quote from: neslekkim on May 18, 2016, 05:40:14 pm2 irons are better - more maneuverable. with tweezers you need to get them in line with the component to get good thermal contact on both - this is easier to do with 2 irons. I have some Metcal tweezers but can't remember when I last used them.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 02:27:42 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on May 18, 2016, 05:40:14 pmOr those Metcal part removal tips

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2016, 06:05:49 pm
content: I use a weller wdd161v dual soldering station it can power two 80 watt (or less) soldering irons simultaneously,there is one button to toggle the temperature adjustment buttons and display between the two channels.For what it's worth..

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 01:50:11 am
content: Quote from: zapta on May 19, 2016, 02:27:42 pmThose are a PITA to get the part out of afterwards. the only useful types are the wide ones for pulling off SO8's etc. and even then only when you have enough to remove that it's quicker than braid etc.

author: Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 20, 2016, 04:58:12 pm
content: I use a Weller WD2M (basically a WD2 with built in USB support), it has 2 ports with 160 watts max total power. I regularly use 2 channels at one time, but it's also nice not having to unplug when switching between the iron and tweezers.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 12:27:00 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on May 18, 2016, 05:40:14 pmI don't get the point of tweezers like that. 2-contact SMDs (which is all that tweezers like that would be good for removing) can simply be swiped off the board with your normal tip (STTC-126 in my case). You put the tip to one of the joints, then move it to the other joint and sweep it off the board in one quick motion. Depending on your speed, and/or the amount of solder that's already on the joints, you may need to add some extra solder to the two joints first, which gives you more time to get your iron to the second joint while the first joint is still molten. I just made a quick video (with a crappy camera) to demonstrate this:https://youtu.be/tfJw5hlWCiYWhen I worked in a PCB factory in the late 1990s I did that all the time, and rarely had to add any solder to the joints first. This is the first time I've done it in about 18 years, so to be on the safe side, I added solder first (ensuring I didn't have to do multiple takes to get the hang of it again).With regard to dual output on a Metcal, I've always wondered what would happen if you used an F splitter off one port like this:Does anyone know?

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 03:54:59 pm
content: You would likely burn the splitter out. They contain a tiny ferrite broadband transformer, that will not handle the several watts of power provided by the Metcal base unit.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 04:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: N2IXK on December 04, 2016, 03:54:59 pmSeveral tens of, you mean.

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2016, 04:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: N2IXK on December 04, 2016, 03:54:59 pmOkay, suppose you didn't use one of those splitters, but rather, just a coaxial Y-cable, or an F connector "T" like this ...... neither of which contain any components to burn out; they are just a 1-to-2 parallel connection.

author: N2IXK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 02:21:50 am
content: You would then be loading the output of the RF power amp with ~1/2 the impedance it was designed for. It may not like that, and magic smoke release becomes a possibility....

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 11:25:52 am
content: Quote from: MaximRecoil on December 04, 2016, 04:46:59 pmAlso, it would kind of interfere with the regulating circuit of the base unit. If I haven't been completely mislead the station measures the amount of power returned by the handle and regulates the output to avoid frying it. Magic smoke sounds like a pretty good summary to me. :-)I did however see a link a few days ago to a thread where someone had built their own supply for handles like the metcal. Perhaps you could build your own dual base unit instead?CHeers

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: jonatanrullman on December 05, 2016, 11:25:52 amWell, no. The heating element in the tip itself regulates temperature around the Curie point of the tip. The generator has protection circuits for high SWR etc but it does not regulate temp.

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2016, 09:24:12 pm
content: Quote from: wkb on December 05, 2016, 09:16:29 pmI know that. But I was under the impression that to avoid getting say 50 watts of rf energy returned it monitored the return and regulated the output. That may or may not be the exact same thing that you mean by "high SWR etc".

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 06:30:39 am
content: Quote from: wkb on December 05, 2016, 09:16:29 pmAny idea how much power a handpiece consumes while resting in the stand? If this is a small fraction of the total 40W then the rest would be sufficient for a second working handpiece.

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2016, 10:37:49 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on December 06, 2016, 06:30:39 amSince they don't have temperature regulation in the base unit I can only assume (since I don't have one myself) that the version that have a sleep mode shuts of the power completely to the handle, so the power consumption would supposedly be negligible. This would explain why some of the dual stations mentioned previously supported one handle in use at a time.Would still have all other sorts of problems with hooking up two handles to a unit not designed for it though.Cheers

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 01:02:34 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 06, 2016, 04:57:36 amIt will work fine for you. I have one and it is a real treat to solder with. I wouldn't worry about tear down pics. These are designed to work continuously in a production environment. For the hobbyist user, it's basically bullet proof.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2016, 01:36:51 pm
content: Quote from: jonatanrullman on December 06, 2016, 10:37:49 pmThe base unit is always driving the iron. The magnet just interferes with the magnetic field around the heating element preventing it getting as hot.No photos of the internals, but I wouldn't worry. If you can find an old MX-500 then even better as there is much less to go wrong. We have some 15 year old units at work still going strong.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 09:56:39 am
content: Quote from: SteveyG on December 07, 2016, 01:36:51 pmNo photos of the internals of the modern metcal mx series ,but it would be really awesome to see some of them ,because it's something of forbbiden and unknow for the entire net.Let's take it apart !!!!!!!

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 01:48:13 pm
content: I am sure there were photos posted here a few years ago. The schematic is also floating around. As others have said not much to go wrong. The magic is in the tips, the base is a 40watt 13 Mhz transmitter with output protection and automatic shutdown if not used for a period of time.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 02:55:53 pm
content: Im really curious about the soldering assembly quality of the internal components .....

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 11, 2016, 02:55:53 pmWhy? It's a top quality tool, it's not going to have any problems.Buy the thing if it's what you need or don't.

author: Ig_sherwood
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 04:26:58 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 11, 2016, 04:13:13 pmYes i need it ...But i have some questions for you.Are you chasing me in every my steps ,in every my post and thread???Why ??Another question is : Why i can't request an teardown of this soldering system if every toys from low-end to high-end was every time disassembled and shownIm reasonless ?

author: MaximRecoil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2016, 05:06:57 pm
content: Quote from: Ig_sherwood on December 11, 2016, 02:55:53 pmHere -http://imgur.com/gallery/SOac4/That's the Metcal PS2E-01, which is the predecessor of the MX-500. They are essentially the same thing, aside from the PS2E-01 not having dual output ports and not having an automatic timeout/shutoff feature. They are both 40 watts, 13.56 mHz, and use the same handpieces and tip cartridges.That image gallery was originally posted by EEVblog forum member Mephitus inthisthread.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2016, 04:45:10 pm
content: Just got a MX500P desoldering set to complement my SSTS-PS2V.Might switch the Talon MX to the SSTS-PS2V , and use the MX500P for the iron.Having 2 PSU's enables me to have both units powered up at the same time , and for 100€ it was hard to say no to the MX500P PSU.