Recognize this logo from 1969 or 1970? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: robertbaruch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 03:00:51 am
content: It looks like an old-fashioned aerial bomb. The chips on this are Stewart-Warner 946-2P with datecodes from 1969 to 1970. They are dual NAND gates.Does anyone know whose logo this is?

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 04:23:19 am
content: Don't recognize the logo, but that looks like an early 1970s logic module (similar to DEC flip chip modules). They're standardized logic functions that were connected through a custom wired backplane. The only historic computer maker I can think of that might match a V is Varian, but the logo is wrong.Edit: it could also be U and V superimposed, and that could have theoretically matched UNIVAC.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 06:00:09 am
content: Might be a chevron rather than a V. But still don't know it.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 10:47:04 am
content: This...?Can't say it's familiar.Google image search classifies it as a heart shaped symbol associated with "love".

author: In Vacuo Veritas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 05:44:08 pm
content: I was thinking Consolidated Vultee, it has roughly the shape of the Convair logo as well.

author: robertbaruch
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 11:15:16 pm
content: I'm wondering if it's an abstract version of the Stewart-Warner logo. They had a microelectronics division starting in 1963.

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 11:57:12 pm
content: Not a clue, but sometimes circuit board houses would put their logo on customers artwork.

author: BrianHG
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 12:44:15 am
content: This didn't help...Bing had better matches, but, they don't have as huge a database of images as google.If the logo had an original color and we knew what it was, that may help.

author: raptor1956
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 12:58:32 am
content: I certainly looks like it's associated with an aviation related company but just which one I have no idea. Of course, in the 50's there were hundreds of AC companies and now there are about 3 in the USA so it's a good bet that whatever company it was no longer exists...Brian

author: JS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2018, 02:02:18 am
content: on the side? nothing?nothing on google at least...JS

author: apblog
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 09:09:31 pm
content: No idea about the logo, but I like the 3 or 4 ounce copper traces... for those high current logic circuits.(I joke, but my PDP 11 had a 5V power supply rated at 20 amps)

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 11:41:14 pm
content: Quote from: apblog on July 29, 2018, 09:09:31 pmTypical TTL fanout of 10 could require up to 16ma on an output trace, if I recall correctly. But big traces are still low resistance, even if you don't need high current. Besides, it's simply easier to do on a board that was probably laid out by hand, when you have space to burn.What I find curious is that the IC's look like they might be quad nand gates. Note that M1 traces go to different pins than on M2 and M3. Not that I've seen an actual datasheet for Stewart-Warner 946-2P.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 01:40:31 am
content: I agree that this looks like an aerospace company logo --- if you look at it the right way, it resembles a rocket/missile too.Since the part looks like a standard circuit card out of a mini/mainframe computer of that era, perhaps identifying that coud lead to the manufacturer.Quote from: Nusa on July 29, 2018, 11:41:14 pmEnjoy

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2018, 02:35:19 am
content: Quote from: amyk on July 30, 2018, 01:40:31 amThanks! I was right, the 14-pin flatpack is a quad nand. Which suggests that the rest of the gates might be connected on the back side of the board and there is a double-sided edge connector. The number of resistors seems to support that as well. OP, do you have a picture of the back side of that board?The TO-5 packages using the same core are interesting as well. One version is implemented as a dual nand plus dual inverter. The other is a quad inverter.

author: Siwastaja
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:27:27 am
content: I find it somehow funny that in the beginning of the IC era, when they were able to squeeze ten to hundred transistors into a small DIP14 case, they tended to cripple all that integration by just wasting so much space it could have been fully discrete in the same area. Clearly, IC wasn't there to miniatyrize computers, but for some other reasons. Complexity wasn't handled by increasing density, but by increasing the size.You can see how design is driven by tradition, conventions and assumptions; the computer wassupposed to beroom size, so getting the size down wasn't even considered as a priority. Nowadays, with all the smartphones and other miniatyrized electronics everywhere, I feel like I need to design everything cramped, even when there is no need to.A lot of PCBs designed in 1960's and early seventies look like this, a few components on a massive board scattered here and there. It's not until 1980's that you see this trend toreallychange - mostly driven by consumer devices getting complex. You can't sell a room-sized VCR to a consumer. So components started to get designed in as close as possible for manual placing, and tricks like vertically installed, bent-leg resistors became the norm.The mindset of reliability was also interesting. Clearly, as a successor for tubes, a transistor, later an IC, was considered a part needing constant replacements, hence the granularity of modularity was ridiculous, a 10000-transistor design used 1000 ICs on 100 boards. Later we saw that theconnectionsbetween these modules were the actual reliability issue, and the transistor/IC reliability became practically 100%, so that the most robust designs are the ones that are completely integrated to as small space as possible, without any "easy to repair" modularity.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 08:29:57 am
content: I think Siwastaja is looking at it wrong.The design is so that the electonics is fully.engineered independantly of the actual logical function of what is being built.The system function is defined by the backplane's wiring, and the choice of cards.In essance, these systems were field programable gate arrays of the day.for the same reason we use FPGAs today:Limited production runs, quick time to market, seperation of logic design from hardware design, ability to update and fix bugs in the field (with wiring changes)'Sure the ability to test and replace cards with only a few standard spares.was good too, but it was not only reason to build this way.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:14:02 am
content: searching for CNG-112 there is clue CNG-151 / CNG-154... Control Logic Inc...http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/05/155/5155759.pdfpage 3-34 you can see the logo in the drawing sheet.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 09:19:47 am
content: Nice find and that's a really interesting document

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 11:40:00 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 01, 2018, 09:14:02 amYou winHow did you find that...? What query did you use? All I could find were pages about compressed natural gas.More information about the company:https://archive.org/details/TNM_Product_brochure_electronic_components_-_Cont_20170906_0025https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ma/042427821

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:22:32 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 01, 2018, 11:40:00 ami just type whatever i think relevant even though not syntactically correct, in this case i type "CNG-112 nand gates board 1970 era" and start looking for relevant hit, not on the top list, and with help from some common sense and patience... if i add "1969" to the search and it will not show up, so i guess we need some luck digging old stuffs.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 12:32:40 am
content: If I Google your query without the quotes, I get a total offiveresults, none of which are your link. If I try to Google the title, "Lecture Notes for a Course in the Fundamentals of Digital Systems", I getthisinstead, which appears to be a higher quality version of the document you found.Did you use something else? Google's search results have been getting worse and worse for a long time, and even then I'm usually good at finding obscure stuff...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 01:11:44 am
content: I use google search. I cant expect too much when there are billions of info to be searched, esp something old thats buried inside a textbook. its still better than nothing thanks to the internet. as said, it seems random, a slight change to the keyword and its gone. Tomorrow maybe its no more.. maybe its at the end of the line from billions or trillions of branches waiting to be decoupled from realityanyway my interest is on the many current technology that deserve places in higher ranking in search engine... old stuffs are all nice historic memory since stone age but we have to move on..

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 07:17:07 am
content: Google returns different results depending in which part of the world you are (and probably a bunch of other attributes). If they decide there is something more “relevant” to you this is what you get. The fact that someone in Malaysia (?) found it is interesting.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 04:04:40 pm
content: Quote from: Siwastaja on August 01, 2018, 06:27:27 amFlip chip boardswerediscrete before ICs. When ICs came around the boards were updated, but remained fully interchangeable.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 04:08:42 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on August 01, 2018, 09:14:02 amAwesome find!

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 04:14:23 pm
content: By the way, that board is so obviously hand masked at 1:1 scale, with opaque tape on sheets of transparent film (cu bottom, cu top, silkscreen...). And people complain KiCAD isn't good enough for them!