Engineers don't need IT - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
content: There seems to be a recent trend at work where the engineering floor has decided they don't really need IT, or at least to the point where they think they can figure it out.Most recently... Engineers have started relocating their computers and equipment to wherever they or their boss wants without involving the process of putting in a request to IT.Sure we appreciate that you can lift your 50lb workstations yourself, but then the next morning they all start screaming bloody murder because "Well I plugged my phone and computer into the wall sockets but get no dial tone or network"Or they come down and say "Hey, IT, can you make me a 50 foot network cable? I need it for a special project" and later you find out they have this 50 foot cable snaked from the back of their computer to an empty cubicle 50 feet way. Usually this is found out when someone does an official request to have their computer relocated and we find the port has been stolen.I'm one of the senior support people at work for my part of IT, but I work a split shift that covers part of day and evening coverage so I sometimes have to do the after hours stuff.Last night we had a ticket that said that the rep for XYZ company had been relocated to make room and the new desk doesn't have a phone connection. I e-mailed the requester and said that the computers and phones share the same line (the phone has a pass through). She said that yes there was a network jack but it was being used by the someone else's computer 20 feet away.I went up to investigate and found that starting counter clockwise from the vendor's desk, every network jack was servicing a computer that was 20 feet away or so and not the computer that was at that desk. I continued to walk around that area and it just continued on and on like this until I got tired of crawling under desks. I also uncovered lots of unused connections that were dead, and cables that came from nowhere that were active network connections that were covered because of boxes and other junk.In the end I corrected 3 cubicles so they were using their own network connection and that freed up the vendors desk so he could have a working phone.One of the hardest things for people to understand (this is everyone, not just the engineers) is that just because you see an RJ45 jack, it doesn't mean it works. If they were to see the networking closet they would see lots of cables dangling that aren't plugged in. That's because there's maybe only 200 connections available, but 250 desk ports. As people move around, network connections without any activity get unplugged and new ones or existing ones get installed.I know you guys are smart, and you took lots of engineering and math classes in college, but realize that us IT guys have gone to school as well and when the safety or fire inspector comes and says "Why did IT run cables like this and string 3 surge protectors together?!" we have to answer for that.Just a rant...

author: DIPLover
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 06:14:17 pm
content: To IT people (angry or otherwise) :just let us work OK? We don't even do it for the money. Please just let us work.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 06:31:36 pm
content: I blame schools. IT in school for a lot of us was just how to use a word processor and spreadsheets, and from the 90's onwards specifically Word and Excel. So the IT guys are who you ask when you can't remember how to do a mail mergeI honestly thought codemonkeys/software engineers would be worse than real engineers for you guys though.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 07:01:06 pm
content: When I rewired at work, a 3 storey building, I used 5km of cable, just so that there were enough spare pairs. At one point I had 16 300m boxes of cable busy being threaded through trunking back to the server location. Around 2000 cable ties used for bundling them, sometimes temporary bundles or to hang them off things like a fan ( to clear a stairwell for use) while putting in the trunking. Borrowed a 110mm core drill to make 2 holes to get the bundles through. The existing holes were both full ( old cable still in operation) and too small for the bundle. Server rack has a 5m long tail so you can move it around in the crowded room ( existing room repurposed for this) to get the side panels or rear panel off.After the changeover I pulled out old cable, around 80kg of Cat1, Cat3, Cat5 and coax cabling.I had done the phone wire about 8 years ago, with Telco supplied multipair cable. 30 pair cable running throughout indoors was easy. Terminating was not, as there were old lead sheathed cables that we could not move out of the steel conduit. Solution was a new 50mm PVC conduit with 100m of 30 pair underground cable run through it, and with the pavement outside dug up by the telco people. I just did the customer side pipe and threaded the cable through, they had the fun of finding the lead box to terminate to, without hitting the 11kv cables, fibre, 380V and the water mains and sewer line all underneath. They did find a water pipe, but it took until last year for it to burst and come to the surface. There was a valve somewhere on the line, but it could not be found, so they put a new stopcock on it with full flow running into the new 3m deep brown pond in the pavement. A lot easier than the guys burying fibre, they found an 11kV cable joint with a jackhammer.....

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 07:03:03 pm
content: I guess most engineers will easily tell you hundreds of anecdotes how IT made things worse in the last 15 year or so.There were times when we bought our own PCs and everything was perfectly fine. Now they deny us admin rights, forbid us to install the software we need because it's not in the default secretary software pool and we are allowed to buy only HP PCs and monitors which suck like hell for three times the normal price. And yeah, we have to rent our phones and headsets for insane fees and are not allowed to use our scopes in the network. They say this is because of security, but force us to use Java 6 and an antediluvian Internet Explorer.The only time I call IT is when they messed up my PC with unwanted crapware installs.I fondly remember the times when it was clear to everyone in a technology based company that IT and HR worked for the engineers and not vice versa.Now you're already happy if they allow you to somehow work at all.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 07:06:32 pm
content: Blame managers. Often, they give conflicting orders to subordinate departments, wittingly or otherwise. They wish to have security (e.g., no one gets administrator access), but don't want users bothering them about it (e.g., developers need frequent administrative control over their machines). They want all this "computer stuff" managed automatically (to the IT department, or contracted out), but they don't want to pay for cleaning it up (keeping ports in order, keeping wires clean) or having to rack their brains organizing everyone themselves.Tim

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 07:18:20 pm
content: I love our IT dept.It's not that we can't do things ourselves but they are the only ones aware of the whole infrastructure of the building and what resources are available.If your company is medium sized, you just can't let people do what they want or use whatever OS they feel like without knowing what interactions have with other systems that you have no idea are on your same network.Let IT do their thing. Maybe I'm lucky and we have an exceptional IT dept and that's not the norm.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 07:35:17 pm
content: I work in a rather large, top-tier, high-tech international corporation. But the people here probably don't have any more love for the internal IT department than anywhere else. Perhaps even less love because we developed (and even invented) much of that technology that we pay the IT people to manage for us.IME, one of the biggest problems (at least in the perception of us end-users) is that dealing with IT is such an incomprehensible bureaucracy. And, at least in our case, it seems like they are perpetually re-organizing (usually to become more cost-effective) and it becomes a moving target. I don't even keep track of who I deal with in IT anymore, because the next time I need that service, or to fix that problem, it will be a different person, and very likely a different department, and the new department won't even know it is their responsibility because there is no apparent internal communication within IT. They use lots of acronyms and names of things that are never defined to the outside world, so it is almost like they are speaking another language.And then moving the phone help-desk operation 1000 miles away to a 3rd world country where English is not the primary language hasn't exactly helped things, either. it isn't just the language (they do their best and they are much more proficient in MY language than I am in theirs). But it is the understanding of the corporate culture and how things are done. That's hard to pick up when you are a new-hire 1000 miles away from the action.At least in our situation, they keep all the ports DEAD unless specifically enabled for a specific user (either an individual's cubicle, or a fixed, shared machine, etc.) So that rather stops "port poaching". And they have each outlet, and each port labeled so they can track it in their database. So at least that part seems pretty well organized.And as more and more traffic moves to WiFi (vs. hard-wires) I have to give them credit that they provide at least three major WiFi services. They have the standard, secured service for employees' corporate-supplied laptop machines in the office area. And they also have a WiFi service for all the 3rd-party vendors which connects to the Internet OUTSIDE the corporate firewall. And then they have also provided a WiFi service for employees' personal devices, which also connects to the internet OUTSIDE the firewall.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 08:00:35 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pmSo there's always a flip side. Last year, my wife's group had their offices moved to a new building across town. Every office and cubicle had two or RJ45 jacks for network service, and the whole building was wired for gigabit ethernet.Naturally I am drafted into helping set up the new office. She brought over from the old office her old desktop computer and VoIP phone, and she got a new network printer too. We get to the office on a Saturday and start to set up. I see there are four RJ45 jacks on a plate under the desk, so I wire one to the phone, one to the new computer, a third to the printer, and I leave a fourth wire on the desk so she use a wire to connect her laptop to the network.The only thing that connected to the network was the desktop computer. The other three ports were not active, which wasn't really a surprise. So we figured for the short term we'd connect the computer and the phone the way it was connected at the previous office: the Cisco VoIP phone has an RJ45 "IN" and another "OUT" jack. "IN" goes to the wall, "OUT" goes to the computer.I notice that the computer is connecting to the network at 100 Mbit and not gigabit. I connect it directly to the wall, and it's gigabit. Hmm. Look up the phone on the Internet, and sure enough, it doesn't support gigabit Ethernet.And ALL of the phones in this huge university office building are like that and apparently nobody noticed and certainly the IT people didn't give a fuck.So we left the computer plugged into the phone and the phone going to the wall and she said she'd call IT in the morning and explain the situation. Which she did: she asked for the other ports in the office to be activated so that she could use the computer at the high speed as well as using the phone and the printer and the laptop. The IT person said, "The connection speed doesn't matter for web surfing."And she was aghast. She explained, "We move a lot of data across the network to our servers. We access a large database regularly. This has nothing to do with web surfing, and everything to do with accessing local servers at the speed the university paid for!"She was told that there was a procedure to follow and schedule to have IT come and enable the other ports in the office and verify all of the equipment and that there might be a fee charged to the department to do all of that. I told her to go to the local computer shop and buy a $50 8-port gigabit switch and have her boss pay for it and that would solve the problem. So she did, and it did.

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 08:26:42 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on February 06, 2015, 06:31:36 pmGood ole blighty!At one company, some years ago, I used to tell all the old radio engineers about online porn. Of course they would go looking ( something in the rf transistors?)That used to REALLY cause trouble for the IT, and like Sir Robin I would bravely run away and leave them to it

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 08:54:25 pm
content: Quote from: Yago on February 06, 2015, 08:26:42 pmI was going to ask what sort of ISDN connection they were eating up to get a feeling for when this happened, but I think I have a better gauge. Were they looking for noods of Tasha Yar or Janeway?

author: Yago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 09:11:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on February 06, 2015, 08:54:25 pmOh no, the real nasty stuff, setting all kinds of alarms.You could hear the crowd of IT, managers, even the director approaching.Like something from T Gillingham's Brazil!

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 09:20:10 pm
content: Sounds like you are failing at your job, and users are forced to take it upon themselves to solve their problems

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 09:29:47 pm
content: You better call it IT don't need engineers ergo customers. I think engineers have the same amount of problems with corporate IT frustrating their work as the other way around.And yeah it happens in our company also:We have a lot of embedded IP products at the moment and developing for them on our own seperated test networks.Unfortunately now and then we have a student or sleepy colleague accidently connecting the test network to the corporate network thereby plugging in the testrouters with active DHCP configuration to the corporate network resulting in that some corporate servers get new IP addresses: all hell breaks loose.Within 1 hour all at a sudden these IT guys you never ever see are crawling around the labspaces searching for the culprit device. And what is really funny, they know exactly on which patch connector this router is but they often can't find the physical connector due to what TS posted: boxes, testequipment etc. etc.Then the most funny thing: they tried to convince management to ban our test routers due to these mistakes.The managers listened and thought it was a "good idea", they confronted our projectleaders and team leads and they explained to management that without the test setup they had two choices:1) connect all prototypes and testing to the corporate network worsening the situation2) abandon the testsetup, that would result in not a single new product to be sold ever again since development would come to a dead stop.That was the end of that "good idea"

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 09:35:09 pm
content: I worked in IT for 30 years, nearly 25 of which were as a systems designer and troubleshooter for financial trading systems, so I see it from both sides of the fence.At one time about 25 years ago, when PCs started to enter offices but mainframes and green screens ruled the roost, there was a golden era when each business unit had their own mini IT team. The mainframe guys didn't want to touch PCs, they were toys as far as they were concerned. For a very few short years there was an uneasy calm. Then the PC server came along, it needed to be in a comms room (it wasn't a server room back then), and it needed to use the network. Suddenly the mainframe guys woke up and got worried that their turf was about to be pissed on.As a result almost overnight, any PC development became centralised, so it became a fixed cost to each business unit. Therefore each business unit is always trying to get a cheaper service to increase their perceived profits. So IT is continually being shaved on cost. Something has to give. And what gives is a less than stellar performance from IT. You get a generic service from a bunch of people who have little idea of the business they're supporting. The business gets pissed off, and go and do it themselves. So much for that centralisation, eh?

author: hamdi.tn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 10:06:09 pm
content: Well from my little contact with IT ppl, i never worked in medium or large company , but have IT friends and they will never be happy about what am going to saywell IT they tend to be bureaucratic, or/and when someone call them to fix something wrong with the computer or network it's " let me show how genius i'am " time ...I totally understand the need for IT department in large corporation , and now it's not even internal network with a crappy internet, everything is now about servers and cloud and network management and security management ... so yeah it's unrealistic to just say that they don't need IT, it's just hard to work with them sometime.Still they can figure it out, they are engineer you know

author: kingofkya
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 10:44:26 pm
content: This thread Reminds me about the rule i had to add in the datecenter I work at:There is no such thing no "temporary cables".No abbreviating labels it just confuses the next guy, likely you at a later date.So yeah I kinda agrees with the coment about it being bureaucratic it kinda has too or quick fixes become a rats nest in as little as a month.Like adding dumb switch to the network your just asking to get in a fight with IT, add will likley get extra mac filter rules added to the switch with is a royal pain to manage, and even more annoying to the guy that just got a new pc. And thats how stupid it policy's get writen.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 10:48:46 pm
content: "I would ask IT first, but i don't because i know they wont let me install my 2watt 802.11ac access point with helical antenna pointed out the window to my house"

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 11:21:08 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on February 06, 2015, 10:48:46 pmYeah, you could get walked right out the door for something like that.There is a major campaign around here right now: "No unauthorized access points!"

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 11:26:55 pm
content: Not to worry, i turned on WEP encryption so its totally secure

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 11:35:46 pm
content: If you're in a fight with IT again. Find yourself a dumb switch (or hub) and an active port.Attach 1 cable to the active port.Attach 1 cable to two sockets on the switch.Congrats, you've just made yourself a network tree with a u-turn.And that's why you're not allowed to attach your own stuff to the company network.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2015, 11:48:20 pm
content: IMHO IT should work with you instead of against you. There is a big difference between people just sitting behind a desk and engineers needing IT infrastructure to get their work done.I once worked at a large research company and the IT guys where actually helpful because they recognised the needs for various kinds of users. Engineers like me had admin rights to the PCs to install whatever we wanted and on a seperate computers we could have unfiltered internet as long as we kept those disconnected from the main network (the regular firewall/proxy was an outright piece of crap as usual).

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:02:45 am
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on February 06, 2015, 07:03:03 pmThis is the nub of two recent experiences for me personally.First was being paid a lot of money for a year, interstate - and despite offering/asking to assist in creating new opportunities for productivity and sales... I actuallyworkedfor only about two weeks in total on simple tasks which I created for myself, and otherwise just dropped in to check email for an hour in the morning and evening. The company of 30-odd staff, folded about two months after I 'was let go'. Go figure that out!The second event & observation is more fundamental.Modern companies have one goal - shareholder or investor returns. Fair enough, but a purely objective approach to sales, analysis and market response in business - by definition - ignores all the potential out there that 'you don't already know about'... Subjective opportunities and awareness.The risk is higher, but the reward is also higher. Bring in the actuaries and lawyers. Risk is bad.Engineers thrive on risk.If business proposals don't match what 'mahogany row' already know and understand (cost-cutting, staff reduction, tax minimisation, then it becomes clear the objective-only model is unsustainable in the long term. Founders and initial investors suck the life for their benefit, without risking the inheritance', second and subsequent generation of salaried management have to run on leftovers.Some big corporates (perhaps*apple, HP, Microsoft, Radio Shack?) 'get away with it' a few times over decades - by making huge knee jerk reactions (*Jobs-Sculley, HP-Agilent, Microsoft-Ballmer etc) when they hear the gurgling of the swirling drain (investor concerns) - but eventually, all the well-paid MBAs, lawyers and accountants retire quietly to board positions withotherorganisations...Leaving a hollow near worthless shell (*Blackberry, Nokia mobile division etc) while moving on to a new role with their resumes stuffed full of profit growth, cost reduction, and clever business tactics - that ultimately destroyed their previous company and gave customers what the company wanted - not what the customer wanted.If you remember those *companies and people - they started with a dream and hard work. Real-time, subjective analysis of opportunity and a lot of risk to meet a perceived demand...*specific references are for example only and those companies have other divisions which seem to prosper independently.<rant_mode> OFF </>GO WOZ!- true to his inner values.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:18:56 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on February 06, 2015, 11:35:46 pmAnd that's why they invented STP over 15 years ago.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:35:19 am
content: It's pretty tough in our engineering labs these days due to recent IT rules...USB sticks are banned on our networks and will be detected/blocked if tried to be used. Same for int/external floppy drives. Write to CD/DVD is blocked.If any of the above is actually 'needed' for a business task then there is loads of paperwork and lots of people/approvals involved in order to allow special temporary hardware to be used to perform the above tasks.I can see why the above rules are needed for security but it can be a major PITA to even do a trivial task. So plenty of planning is required in order to avoid frustration

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:54:03 am
content: There is the potential to use a completely isolated engineering LAN - with internet if needed for R&D activities or testing, augmented by shared 'corporate' storage on a separate LAN/VLAN - with extremely tight security and malware protection...?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 01:53:30 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2015, 12:35:19 amTime to bring in a bluetooth serial port dongle and Zmodem some files from your phone to your desktop

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:35:51 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 07, 2015, 01:53:30 amSadly anything like bluetooth is banned in the labs. Mobile phones are banned too.(so are personal laptops, tablets, radios or even MP3,4 devices)

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:45:47 am
content: Man, it sounds like it's hard to get anything done at some of your places of work.Luckily I work at a small company (~12 people), and I am both THE IT department, as well as one of the heads of the engineering department. The bottom line is whenever I need to get something done, it gets done, and the rest of the engineers under me get it pretty easy as well.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 02:50:28 am
content: Sounds like the answer to "my job is hard!!!" seems to often be "let's make theirs hard too"...

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:02:06 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2015, 02:35:51 amThis isn't ITAR related (or the equivalent) is it?Sounds like they actively and literallydon'twant you to do any work...Tim

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 03:28:48 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2015, 02:35:51 amok, now you're just challenging me to find ways around the restrictions.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:23:26 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on February 06, 2015, 09:20:10 pmSorry, wrong. If the requests are put in before the move we can make sure everything goes smoothly and nobody has to take it upon themselves to do anything. All the request requires is their immediate manager to authorize it and we will take care of the rest.The other problem is things like printers, they have static IP addresses and are on a different VLAN. If they get moved, they stop working.Doing this is a secondary duty for me anyway as I work on the manufacturing support side, but after 5:00, all the office support people have left for the day, and we help out when we can.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:33:43 am
content: Quote from: Kjelt on February 06, 2015, 09:29:47 pmI've dealt with a similar issue however it wasn't DHCP, it was Spanning Tree Protocol. The manufacturing engineering group was installing a small switch in a PLC cabinet. Shortly after the entire network goes haywire, almost nothing works, specifically anything PLC related.It took about an hour to realize what it was because we didn't have a dedicated network engineer at the time. This DIN rail switch had Spanning Tree enabled and it was set to the highest number possible which meant it "outranked" the fiber switch in the server room. That switch of course wasn't the highest because it was subordinate to the ones at the corporate offices.So now we have had to tighten the rules. We configure the switch and then we lock them out. I've even been pushing to get away from the switches from various vendors in the PLC cabinets and standardize on either Cisco DIN rail switches or Allen Bradley (made by Cisco) so that the standard corporate configuration can be applied to them and they can be centrally managed.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:36:44 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on February 06, 2015, 11:35:46 pmWe cleared out one of those recently as well. Someone found a cable on the floor that was near a network port with nothing plugged in, they plugged it in and created a loop back. No malice was intended they just thought it came unplugged. Fortunately that was detected by the corporate network group and they called us to report a loop on the network and where it was.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:44:46 am
content: If it involves a current employee, or even the whole building, our IT does it all after a work day or on weekends when needed which is not often.Software updates, maintenance, etc is done outside of working hours for no impact in everyday business.Power distribution, layout, building's climate control, video conference, A/V, you name it, it's all transparent to us. Do I need a packet sniffer for some network code I'm working on? I'll get it as soon as I ask for it. Do I need to VPN? not a problem, access to remote location code depositories via secure tunnels, same thing it's almost miraculous.It's the best IT dept I have seen, but I used to work on small startups before so the IT dept was the server network programmer doing double duty or the rest of us programmers for non telephone or network infrastructure things like software updates etc. so I don't know what the norm is.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:47:47 am
content: Quote from: DIPLover on February 06, 2015, 06:14:17 pmWe try our hardest to do that. Which is why we send out e-mails asking you to log off your computers and leave them on over the weekend because the monthly microsoft updates will be running.Or please involve IT in your computer move so the new location can be documented. Then when you put in a ticket for help we don't go to your old desk and wonder where you went.And when you get a virus from installing something you shouldn't have, all of IT knows about it because the antivirus software sends out an alert to everyone in IT.Our job is to keep everything running smoothly so you rarely have to deal with us.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:50:15 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 07, 2015, 04:44:46 amIn some ways we are less strict than my previous job. We don't force the updates to reboot your computer at my last job they did, so you might get rebooted in the middle of working on something if you had reached the deadline.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 04:54:02 am
content: Quote from: Bassman59 on February 06, 2015, 08:00:35 pmThe phones we have are like that. They were standardized before gigabit was common.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 05:34:26 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on February 07, 2015, 12:35:19 amNicolas Carr wrote the book "IT Doesn't Matter". I think he was wrong, but it doesn't matter. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. Enough think it doesn't matters and as a result, IT indeed doesn't matter any more.IT is like electrical wiring, like the toilet, like the doors and elevator, they are just part of the infrastructure of a building and it is not a strategic part of it anymore. Consequently, success in IT is judged by it's lack of failure and doing so at minimal cost. So, typical IT goal is like how do I have 16 stalls with running water and flushing toilet at minimal cost, and how can I make sure it doesn't clog or flood; and should there be a flood, itdamn well better be someone else's fault.If I am the owner of a business with all the intellectual properties stored on the server, all the financial records stored on the server... Would I risk my company and all the employees' livelihood just so Jane over there can connect to TheEmployee'sMusicShare.com to download music?That was a long lead-in to this point: In part, the fault is also with expectation of the employee. Certain things may be perfectly proper in private (at home) is not compatible to a public environment (or a business one). "I do this all the time, why can't I do this with my PC?" Well, why would an employee expect to be able to walk around in his/her underwear in the office just because he/she does that at home all the time?Perhaps it situation like HomeDepot's or Target's lost of customer data; Reading that on the news, one senior manager might have said to another - hey, are we sure that our customer data is secure? To prevent someone walking all with the entire company's customer list and sales history in his/her brief case, the employee's ability to copy (and remove) vast amount of data must therefore be curtained.When success is judged by lack of failure, one sure way to avoid failure is to avoid doing anything. When one must do something, first and foremost is to avoid risk - hence, all those red tape serves as markers to allow people to stay in the safe zone.Not a good one to be in, but that is the world we are in today.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 07:32:53 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 07, 2015, 04:36:44 amI had seen something similar when a cable came loose and "islanded" a switch in the test lab. Rather than find and fix the fault, someone just connected another feed to the switch. Many weeks later, someone else had to troubleshoot an unrelated network issue with a system connected to that switch and found the detached cable, which he plugged in and proceeded to take down the entire network...

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:15:34 am
content: There are some exceptions of course, but many engineers and serious enthusiasts seem to know more about how computers work and their software than their IT people. At one workplace, we had to suffer an IT manager like no other.(Caution. The following story contains horror themes)We had over 100 employees sharing their internet on a single antiquated 2Mb/s Primary Rate ISDN link, paying $800 per month for this guaranteed service. This was at a time when you could get reliable ADSL/2 100GB for $50 per month and we were right next to the telco's exchange. The IT manager's argument was people want reliability, not speed. I wanted ADSL2 for our lab, but he would not approve it because he said it is not guaranteed to be reliable. The internet effectively froze every lunchtime and trying to download a simple datasheet at any time was sheer agony. I often had to drive home to download datasheets or to get software updates. To make matters worse, we found out the IT people had given their own internet packets priority of service over everyone else.He had us buy $900 monitors when $200 monitors would work just as well. His justification was the $900 monitors came with a two year onsite replacement warranty.If there was a PC problem, the IT department could take several days to respond. He outsourced a ticketing system at a large cost that would just make things slower. Having no understanding of control theory, the IT manager never sought feedback from the customers on how efficient his department was operating. He had an open loop mentality. His paradigm was the users are here to serve IT, not IT is here to serve the users.I had a colleague who put up with a slow network problem for months. The IT department, after several visits could not nut it out, so in the end they informed the the colleague they would have to take her machine away and re-install Windows. I overheard about this and decided to investigate. The problem was the proxy server address was wrong. I knew that by looking at mine and seeing the colleague's was different. It took 5 minutes to investigate and fix. It ain't rocket science.Another colleague purchased a Dell laptop containing Windows 7 for his wife as a present and got it delivered to work. It had his name clearly written on the box. When it had arrived, IT signed for the machine, took it away, unpackaged it, threw all the paperwork and CD's in the bin, and loaded their standard image on it with the old Windows XP and all the Rational bloatware and other crapware on it. They then delivered the machine to someone else in the organisation. My colleague investigated why Dell had not delivered his machine a few days later, and he discovered IT's debacle. He was very upset and angry.The irony in all of this is originally an IT guru from a sister company applied for the IT manager's job. He was well known and had earned great respect having common sense, excellent PC skills, high intelligence and great people skills. He didn't get the job because he did not fit the corporate image (he had multicoloured hair). The company instead gave a dodgyartist the job.Finally, the IT manager once demonstrated at a meeting that he didn't know the difference between a bit and a byte. Despite his qualifications, his education was very dubious.Needless to say, that IT manager was finally given the flick.

author: hamdi.tn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:19:06 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on February 07, 2015, 03:02:06 ami can't remember last time i used a usb or disk in my work place, 99%of the time files or program are exchanged internally or externally using network and internet. but i guess with you case you have limited access to network.i visited a factory once where engineers don't have access to there workstation, all computers are hidden and locked some where in the room , with only VGA cable for monitor accessible , mouse and keyboard are wireless. and to be able to use an usb stick you need to ask permission from IT.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:22:27 pm
content: I've worked in a few odd environments. One was a place doing a lot of military research, so a very strict no camera policy. I was designing a camera phone.The worst IT department was coming up to Y2K. The IT department would insist on mucking about with clocks to make sure machines would run ok after the millennium. Many machines in the engineering department had licensed software on which could detect that the date had been messed with and would lock the licence, so after IT had been messing about all board layout and mechanical work was on hold for a day whilst the licence issues were sorted. For this to happen once was poor, but the IT department procedure said this has do be done four times to make sure it wasn't a fluke that the machine worked ok after the first test. In total, about 20 man weeks of work were lost thanks to an IT department believing it were the dog and the engineers were the tail.Quote from: hamdi.tn on February 07, 2015, 09:19:06 amIt's a bit of a bind when you pick up a bit of test gear, move it to the bench where it's needed, make some measurements, dump the screen grabs onto a usb stick and then can't use the data.

author: XynxNet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 12:32:19 pm
content: Well, we like to build or own networks because of stories like the following I am struggling with at the moment.I just had to abandon my custom build network and server which perfectly ran our server based administrativ software.Instead I was forced to change to a closed governmental network. There we don't have any rights, USB doesn't work any longer if you don't use one of the generous 8! encrypted usb-sticks we were provided with. EMail was also migrated to a governmental server, which can only be accessed from our local network at work. So no more mailchecking from home office.Our two locations are now connected with a consumer grade dsl connection with abmisal upload speed. And on top of that our administrativ software now has to be installed locally on every single client and shares an access-db on the central citywide server which is also connected via consumer dsl.Needless to say, that we don't have access to any tools for centralized client management our software rollout, IT departement won't update our software and everything is unusable slow. (Think of minutes delay...)I really don't want to see those IT guys ever again. I seriously wish, we had a more professional IT departement.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 06:24:17 pm
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 07, 2015, 04:44:46 amThere isn't really a norm, especially in small to medium companies. But for how bad startups can be I'll tell a little tale about my first real job. The IT department was an 18 year old who started as an office junior and 2 weeks later was their in house web dev and ad hoc IT guy. Unqualified and overwhelmed I've got to admit the kid did a good job given the situation. But just imagine what a disaster that could have been.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: KJDSI've dealt with similar things when many years ago I worked with auditing a pharmaceutical company for upcoming compliance with electronic record laws.One thing that came up was if the data could be altered between the test equipment and the final destination. So lets say all the data was dumped in a .CSV file on a floppy. You could then open that .CSV and modify your results before uploading it to whatever database stores the data.So there was a preference towards devices that were physically connected to the computer that transferred the data directly.The funny thing was, if the lab equipment was largely not able to be used with a computer, you could just write them down in your lab notebook and sign or initial the results to be true and accurate and that would become official record and nobody would ever write down the wrong thing on purpose, would they?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 08:58:23 pm
content: QuoteYup... That's the most annoying aspect of it for me. The workaround is to connect to the test gear via GPIB with a NI or Agilent USB/GPIB cable and dump the data this way. Not as convenient but kind of OK once set up and running.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 09:50:04 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on February 07, 2015, 08:15:34 amIf that happened to me i would arrange a meeting with someone high up in the company. Report the problem and ask that the company immediately order a new replacement laptop that day on urgent courier.If they refused, or wanted to investigate further (beyond a day) then I would let them know of my intention to file a police report. (They have broken the law opening someone else's mail)I would also make it clear that i don't care if this costs me my job.All this is, of course, assuming the package only had the "persons" name on it, andnotthe company's name as well.If it had the company name on it then its technically addressed to the company and they are entitled to open it.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 10:30:42 pm
content: And I thought that my IT dept. was horrible. My favorite part was, that there was a server maintenance something like friday early morning, so the IT dept. biggest PITA decided: "Lets make sure everyone knows that the server will be down!" so he set up a meeting (!) into the whole company's calendar. With a 15 minutes reminder. It is great, how exchange servers work, and they synchronize the calendar with your phone. That was about 90 minutes before I normally wake up.Over the last few years, the guy arranged, that I specifically set up a spam filter for the IT dept, for emails containing the "update", "maintenance" and "virus" (the list grows) words automatically deleting those, and archiving the rest.We actually need the IT department. They are the mighty champions with the crimping tools for the UTP cables.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2015, 11:15:57 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on February 07, 2015, 09:50:04 pmI suppose experience like this eventually makes us wiser.I found it much better to call UPS and go there for a pickup. Shipping department of larger company care no more about the package than typical UPS box handlers. Besides, why fiddle with property-pass, or proof of personal ownership anyhow.By 5 years into my career, I learned not to send personal stuff to the office address. By 10 years into my career, I learned not to have anything personal in my office (except a photo or two).More than once, I had the terrible task of monitoring someone pack up, sign him/her out with the boxesof personal belongings at security, and walked the person out the facility. I learned to best keep personal and professional very separate. My office was always very personalized, but personalized with nothing that i cannot walk away from.

author: Dave Turner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 12:09:05 am
content: Yeesh!It all depends on circumstance. Bear in mind that should security be compromised, which can seriously affect revenue, then the IT department have their asses on the line. So if a user, no matter how senior, is found to be responsible for a security breach there will be shit to pay.Sure the IT department is there to facilitate operations, but they are also there to protect the company.I've literally pulled the plug on several occasions to prevent a company from losing or further compromising data; from both external attack and internal idiocy.I truly believe that Engineers/Professionals are definitely in need of a good IT department in order to protect them from themselves.By the the way I say this from having experienced both sides.

author: donotdespisethesnake
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2015, 07:49:11 am
content: My favourite is when an urgent email came from IT about a virus being spread by email... with the virus attached. Seeing it was an official email from IT - many people then opened the attachment!Clean up required shutting down every PC on site, disconnect from net, then turning on one by one and disinfecting. That kept IT dept busy for the whole weekend and most of Monday!

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 06:02:58 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 06, 2015, 06:08:26 pm-IT, I want 4 network connections on my desk, 1 for normal network/email/purchasing, nr2 and nr3 for putting 2 prototype machines that communicate over the network in a long-time test, and the 4 th for my laptop to monitor a PLC in the factory, with the necessary ports OPEN.-We cannot do that-Why?-When everybody comes in to ask for 4 connections, do you know what...-I'm not one of your many secretary's, can I put a router or switch myself?-No, that would be an illegal network, it's strictly forbidden....

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 06:36:47 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 09, 2015, 06:02:58 pmWe have task tracking, so in that event (which of course wont happen at my work because I will get what I need within the day) I'll set my task to blocked with the explanation that I'm waiting to get the necessary resources to continue those tasks and assign it to whoever is in charge of such procurement.And I will reinforce it on our weekly meeting as well.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pm
content: Quote from: Galenbo on February 09, 2015, 06:02:58 pmHave your boss talk to their boss, but in general I don't see many IT departments that will bend on that. Your project, as important as it may be, ends up being inconsequential when it comes to the safety of the network.Even IT doesn't just connect random new things to the network, there tends to be extensive testing on isolated systems to see how they behave."I know what I'm doing" or "I know better than IT" doesn't usually work out in the long run.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 07:38:39 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pmAnd "Simply no. Go away and don't bother us." doesn't usually work out in the long run, either.The "safety of the network" is fine and well.But that network (and the people "protecting it") wouldn't even be there if the people doing the actual work are unable to get the job done.The network doesn't exist for its own sake (or for IT's sake, either). It is there to serve the legitimate needs of the business.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2015, 07:39:51 pm
content: I guess I was assuming that they have more than one network if they are developing internet enabled devices.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 04:39:59 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 09, 2015, 07:39:51 pmGotta get information off of test equipment somehow. And when usb mass storage is disabled, and they want to reimage the $150k VNA because it's a Windows machine inside before it can go on the network... Guess I'll just take a picture of the screen with a camera

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 05:11:08 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on February 09, 2015, 07:39:51 pmThat's the way it should be at least. Some sort of separate VLAN that's not connected to the main network.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2015, 12:44:56 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pmWhere was randomly connecting things to the network mentioned?Quote from: Stonent on February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pmWhere was safety or unsafety of the network mentioned?Quote from: Stonent on February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pmLeft the place for a company that keeps up with evolution. The key businees was originated in the 50ies and they kept on doing the same thin with a Y2K shine on it. Too many clerks, responisbles, windows-word, rust.

author: jhalar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2015, 12:06:13 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on February 09, 2015, 07:18:04 pmThe "safety" of the network depends whether the network engineer has configured the network correctly to handle all sorts of traffic and devices. When I started my current job I had to clean the network up and re-configure it. Running 54 vlans at the moment for research, development and corporate uses.