eevBLAB #20 - Franky, Ebay, & Hong Kong - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 05:17:23 am
content: Franky from the Ebay store 99centHobbies dropped by the lab and we had a quick chat about ebay, selling, shipping, and the Hong Kong electronics scene compared to Shenzhen China.http://stores.ebay.com.au/99centHobbies

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 05:31:32 am
content: If you want to find any electronics scene in Hong Kong you'll need a time machine to get back to the early 90s.

author: Barny
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 08:41:37 am
content: I hate it when the shipping is includet in the item price.The tax-free value is calculated only with the item-price.But if the item price is over 22€, vou have to pay the 20% tax for item and shipping.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 09:09:20 am
content: Quote from: Barny on January 05, 2016, 08:41:37 amHere is your guy:Director General Hans-Georg KramerThe Directorate General for Customs and International as well as Organisational Tax Issues is responsible for ensuring appropriate tax revenues - using a new organisational model - modern, customer-oriented and efficient.

author: k2teknik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 09:42:15 am
content: Quote from: Barny on January 05, 2016, 08:41:37 amThat may differ from country to country.

author: cezar
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 10:10:08 am
content: Thanks for the video Dave. I've looked at his Franky's store and looks like he is mainly interested in top quality products - The ebay score speaks for itself.He seems to be a nice chap too.Just purchased a few items - I hope Dave gets commissionc.

author: VinzC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 10:50:26 am
content: Quite an interesting video and man. I like to say it's a considerable advantage to see whom we're buying from or selling to. Commercial relations also arehumanrelations first and a visual contact is an asset (should work both ways, of course).Other than that I would have been interested in confirming (or not) what someone told me about the Chinese and CCC*. As he spent a few months in China he said to me their pride lies in satisfying their customer, they want to honour the customer wishes and desires. So if their customer wants even lower prices they actually will honour that, making no compromise like we would (wish to). He said the Chinese already manufacture at lower prices by default and even good, quality hardware; it's only (occidental?) companies, wanting to maximize their profits, who kind of "force" even lower prices and flood the occidental markets with cheap, crappy devices. There undeniablyarequality-manufactured devices but China is mostly known from the cheap crap, which, if that theory is correct is mainly due to the pressure from profit-oriented corporates.It might be overly simplistic but that theory sounds credible to me somehow as the Asian culture and philosophy is fundamentally different from ours. It would have been interesting to know Franky's point on that.*Chinese Cheapy Crap

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 01:03:28 pm
content: Quote from: VinzC on January 05, 2016, 10:50:26 amI grew up in Hong Kong during the British colonial era so it was very different from mainland China. In many ways people from HK are still very different from mainland Chinese people including how we do business etc, so it's hard for me to confirm or deny what your friend told you. Based on my own personal dealings with suppliers and sellers from mainland I suspect there might be some truth to what you said.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 03:55:25 pm
content: Franky comes as a nice and decent guy. I wish Dave would let him talk with less interruptions.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 05:34:34 pm
content: What a thoroughly nice chap! I've heard nothing but good about Franky and his ebay store. I will have to order something one day@Barny, I don't know how it is in Austria, but in the UK you have to pay tax on the price of the goods + the shipping. I would be surprised if Austria is different as I believe the derisory tax thresholds and rules are mandated by the EU who don't care that the cost of collecting these pittances and the bureaucracy is more of a drain on the economy than just letting them through. The exception is if the goods are a gift in which case the tax may apply on the goods only, not the shipping.Having said that pretty much anything that ships (to the UK) China Post or Hong Kong post appears to just be let through no matter what is written on the CN22. I don't know about Franky but most sellers tend to list the item as $5 - $20 USD without asking and so under any threshold.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 06:10:12 pm
content: Prices seem pretty high to me?

author: CrashO
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 06:48:12 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 05, 2016, 05:34:34 pmIn the Netherlands (so presumably the rest of EU too), the general rules regarding outside EU imports are:0 - 22 euro, excl shipping. Free from any taxes22 - 150 euro, excl shipping. You pay 21% tax (VAT) on the goods AND on shipping AND you get extra "handling" costs for processing the taxes (UPS ~€10, DHL €13, PostNL €13, etc)150 or more, you pay 21% tax on the goods AND on shipping AND extra import charges based on the TARIC code.So what Barny is referring to, is if for example a eBay seller sells Probes for 5 euro, with 1 euro shipping, and you order 4 of them. The total becomes €20 goods + €4 shipping. So free from taxes.If the 1 euro shipping is integrated. It becomes €24 goods, free shipping. So above 22 euro.. Meaning you will have to pay 24 * 0,21 = €5,04. Plus handling costs.. So you will have to pay between €15 and €18 euro èxtra to the mailman, because the seller wanted to include it in the priceOf course chances are small with regular small packages because there is so many of them coming from China/HK and everything is marked gift from China away..., but if they get you.. your €20 probes double in price just because of how the seller offered it to you.So usually when I order stuff from sellers who include shipping. I just make multiple < 22 euro orders. And hope they don't become friendly and combine it for me in one large package(has happened..)

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 07:17:42 pm
content: Ah yes, I double checked. It is the value of goods (not shipping) if valued <=£15 in the UK. If the parcel is a gift then you are allowed up to £34 value of goods. But once the VAT hits it has to be paid on the full value including shipping, duty, and insurance. Plus of course the post office / parcelforce fee of £8-£13.50 for employing a team of crack mathematicians to work out tax = value * 0.2

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 08:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: CrashO on January 05, 2016, 06:48:12 pmAlthough I have shipments from all over the world with values from 10 - 2000 euro I never ever got to pay tax or import charges.So am I just lucky or do they charge my employer automatically because I use my office address as shipping address?

author: Barny
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 08:54:18 pm
content: Quote from: CrashO on January 05, 2016, 06:48:12 pmThats exactly what I wanted to say.But don't count on the fact that they aren'nt able to check every package.There are some honkong-shops which get a 100% inspection.Some years ago Hobby King was one of them.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 09:36:58 pm
content: ...the absurdity is not so much the miniscule tax at these low levels, but the "processing fees" which when added on more than double the cost of these goods. So the postman makes more money than the manufacturer, retailer, original postal courier, etc. Then the VAT man with all his efficiencies (hahaha) gets to process 4 EURO when the cost of the transaction to the taxpayer is probably more like minimum 50 EURO. It is insane. The UK was a little bit more generous until it harmonised with EU. Yet another good reason to get out of that unelected dictatorship.Now look at OZ, where Dave doesn't have to pay anything in import duty or tax on goods up to $1000 !!! Don't forget OZ has about the most severe customs agency in the world too!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 10:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: CrashO on January 05, 2016, 06:48:12 pmThat is one way of doing it but in my experience most Chinese sellers put a much lower value on the customs form.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 10:45:30 pm
content: I don't think the EU has forced you to have processing fees on the VAT thing, that's something where you should put the blame elsewhere I think. I at least don't pay any processing fees if I am doing the clearance myself (yes I would, if I asked the courier to do it for me and they have just as nuts fees as the ones you refer to)

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 11:07:03 pm
content: Hi Franky!I've hear all the stories how the China and Hong Kong shipping is subsidized, to generate export. It is outrageous system now. So what happens is: The country sending goods -from- gets the entire fee from shipping. It was all fine when the two direction was equal, bot ends got their share. Now there is a magnitude higher incoming mail, which has to be delivered from free. Means, when I order something from china, the mailmen bringing it to the door gets nada. And of course one postmen earn more here than entire villages in ie east europe.So while you can internationally ship something 200g for 4 dollars, I have to pay more to ship the same item within the country. It costs 43 EUR to send something 1kg to Dave. For the reference, the same is 17 EUR from Germany. It is cheaper, including gas, to drive to another country to send my *CENSORED* mail. BTW, Dave, a very good reason why you dont get too much mail from certain countries.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 11:40:17 pm
content: Quote from: Neganur on January 05, 2016, 10:45:30 pmActually there is some way around this. I would urge all UK importers who have their stuff go through EMS (therefore the mandatory £13.50 Parcelfarce fee for actually holding the parcel longer so they can get their trolls to tapX . 2on their calculator and then not phone or email you, but send out a snail mail letter asking for payment for release of this "EXPRESS DELIVERY" - which in my experience means the fucking thing takes LONGER than sending it International First Class!)Insist the seller writes on the CN22 - "GOODS TO BE DECLARED BY IMPORTER" or "TO BE CUSTOMS CLEARED BY IMPORTER".It is probably unlikely to stop the bastards. It was always illegal when they held the post back in this way but they carried on with it anyway (unlike the commercial couriers who would invoice you after the event - but realise they couldn't demand their insane clearance fees if you just paid the taxes alone). However when the Royal Mail was privatised one of the sweeteners was the government cleared this up and allowed them to carry on holding international mail like a troll for uncontracted "payment processing services". It doesn't mean they are allowed to with the International Mail Union and all that stuff, but they do it anyway.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 02:24:35 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 05, 2016, 11:07:03 pmShipping within China is fast and cheap. Order something from Taobao at the far end of the country and it arrives the next day, with very low charges. Chinese postmen may be cheaper than western ones (at least for now), but trucks and gas costs are like any other country. So, its not just a matter of the China side doing only the cheap part of international mailing, but taking all the revenue. They really have a well developed, efficient, delivery system.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 03:40:23 am
content: There is another small incentive for eBay sellers to offer free shipping. They automatically get 5/5 star feedback rating in the shipping category on that item.On eBay, I personally prefer the items with free shipping. Less math I have to do in my head.It still boggles my mind that someone can manufacture a non-trivial item, package it, ship it thousands of kms across the planet, and have it delivered to my door, for onlyone dollar. Just think of how many hands it passed through. The dollar covered all the man hours, materials, infrastructure, business overhead, fuel, etc. etc.... And yet there's still something left over for someone to take home! Here, $1 would employ a minimum wage worker for just 6 minutes.I heard a (allegedly Chinese) saying once ... fortunes can be made on paper thin margins.Great interview with Franky. I have corresponded with him in the past, and he's a super nice guy. I wonder what his regular job is ...Yes as someone else mentioned, Dave needs to "zip it" during interviews. Ask your question, then let them talk. We want to hear the guest speak.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 08:01:58 am
content: I find free shipping a night mare, the problem is ebay encourage it and if I am selling 10 resistors with a value of £0.20 ebay makes me list for at least £0.99 so I have to include free shipping, but then say someone wants to buy 10 values, so now I have to add discounts, but ebay can chnge their system at any time to ruin it. dealing through ebay is a nightmare. I wish I could charge shipping seperately, it would be less work, but ebay is made for people selling items over £10.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 03:17:00 am
content: >> if I am selling 10 resistors with a value of £0.20 ebay makes me list for at least £0.99Why don't you make it 50 resistors for £1 ?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 03:37:48 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on January 06, 2016, 03:40:23 amYou just need to gather up that paper until you have 144 boxes of it, and then you have a gross margin.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 06:48:57 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on January 07, 2016, 03:17:00 amI do have price breaks up to 100, but shipping is still tricky

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 02:05:51 pm
content: I looked up his store in the UK eBay and it was blank, nothing for sale, weird...

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 02:27:55 pm
content: Quote from: StuUK on January 13, 2016, 02:05:51 pmHe mentioned on another thread that he is on a business trip right now. When he goes away, his store appears empty and just has a notice that he is not taking orders. When he comes back, everything is listed automatically listed again. I think he said he would be back Thursday IIRC. So check back around then.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 05:38:10 pm
content: You can set you shop to away and still take orders in which case the items show but you can have a huge backlog when you get back and because ebay just put a tiny notice on each listing people don't realize that you arte away and they can still open cases to say the item never arrived on time. As usual ebay pisses all over sellers.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 02:26:10 am
content: Quote from: StuUK on January 13, 2016, 02:05:51 pmLOoks like his store is back up as of this evening.

author: StuUK
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 08:14:09 am
content: Quote from: PedroDaGr8 on January 14, 2016, 02:26:10 amYep, must have been off whilst he was travelling

author: iloveelectronics
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 03:45:55 pm
content: Yes, I am back now. Sorry about the inconvenience while I was away.Simon is right, I could have left the store open (with an "away" note) and continued to take orders but that would have been a really bad idea as I wouldn't be able to ship and will eventually be hit with negative feedbacks and low ratings due to slow shipping.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 05:35:07 pm
content: Quote from: iloveelectronics on January 14, 2016, 03:45:55 pmIf ebay do allow negative feedback you should appeal. The whole point of putting it into holiday mode is so that people know either way.My only holiday used to be a week of volunteering and I have an image imbedded on all my listings so that I can put text on it and change it and it will show on all listings so I used to put a photo on from the year before explainingh that I was away. People were understanding and I had no problem, but when I didn't put the image with my own message no one realized I was away even with it in holiday mode.

author: hopski
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2016, 03:37:26 pm
content: I've ordered stuff from Franky's store which I've received in the UK 5 days later which I think is pretty damn good