Powering desktop hard drives from 19v NUC power supply - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 08:39:22 am
content: This project is to create a media server inside a hollowed out NES. I have the following: A NUC11TNKI5 PC and two DC HC530 drives. I'm connecting them via a PCIe 2242 Dual SATA port adapter but I need SATA power too. Research elsewhere suggests that I connect two step down converters in parallel to a barrel connecter extension, one bringing the 19v down to 12v and another for the 5v. Does that seem correct? Would anyone kindly suggest high quality, small, and somewhat inexpensive converters?

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 08:45:28 am
content: Needing 19V to 12V and to 5V is a good position to be in, lots of options for step-down from 19V to those common voltages.Probably need something that can peak up to at least 2.5A on 12V rail. Continuous current will be much lower. Maybe 600mA.The 5V rail will be lower, 1A peak is probably ok.But do some checking for your drive, that's just off the top of the my head

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 10:38:59 am
content: Datasheet is here :https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/data-center-drives/ultrastar-dc-hc500-series/data-sheet-ultrastar-dc-hc530.pdfThe SATA drives are advertised at 6 watts power consumption ... yeah, it's gonna be something like 5v 0.4-0.6A and the rest on 12v maybe 4.5w out of 6w will be the motor.The motor is gonna pull like 2A for a few seconds at startup.You may be able to do a staggered spinup if the drive supports pin 3 disable , look at the footnotes under the specs in datasheet.If there's a L in the model code, it's Legacy mode, not supported, if there's a y then the 3rd 3.3v contact is disable / prevent startup - if there's 3.3v on it, the drive won't start.So you could have a 6-8 pin microcontroller and a couple transistors and by default both drives with 3.3v on that 3rd contact, and as the micro starts, pull down the first drive's pin to start, wait around 3-5 seconds then turn the other drive on.For 5v, you may be able to get without using a separate voltage regulator by tapping into the 5v dc-dc converter that powers the usb ports.Could solder a couple of wires on the output capacitor of that dc-dc converter, or on the back of pcb under usb 2.0 ports pins.Intel ARK also says there's some headers with 5v , 5v standby and 3.3v standby on them - so you could probably tap 5v from there :Additional Headers : Front_panel (PWR, RST, 5V, 5Vsby, 3.3Vsby); Internal 2x2 power connectorDigikey has some small and relatively cheap ready made dc-dc converters that only need a resistor to set the output voltage (for the adjustable output versions)example12v 1A (12w) out, 15v..36v in :https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/murata-power-solutions-inc/OKI-78SR-12-1-0-W36H-C/681769916v..36v in, fixed 12v out, up to 3A (36w) :https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cui-inc/P783F-Q24-S12-S/1247116116..40v in, 0.75v...5.5v out, up to 3A / 17w :https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/murata-power-solutions-inc/OKI-T-3-W40N-C/218246310.5v ..53v in , fixed 5v out 18w :https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/NID35-5/10659863

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 01:16:31 pm
content: Thanks, I hadn't thought about spinup load. Anything beyond basic soldering is beyond my skills. I think the specs we need are under 6.3 herehttps://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/data-center-drives/ultrastar-dc-hc500-series/product-manual-ultrastar-dc-hc530-sata-oem-spec.pdf. Interestingly, if I'm reading it right, the largest load isn't at startup.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 01:58:42 pm
content: Question here to understand the big picture: What is the scope of this project?Do you want to create something out of parts you already have, and learn some stuff while doing it, or do you want to create a reliable NAS to store your data on, and have to do so with limited ressources?If you do not like to take care of the voltage regulators yourself, I would suggest you make use of the USB ports the NUC has:https://www.amazon.com/s?k=usb+to+sata+adapterI do not know those brands and how reliably they perform, but this is the way I would go with ready-made parts.Also, looking at the specs of the NUC, there is only one internal SATA port available, which I would use to boot it via an inexpensive and small SSD for operating system and config only.Has the advantage if something goes south, you simply setup a new system, and restore the saved config back and here you go again.

author: wasedadoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 02:34:55 pm
content: Quote from: nightfire on January 13, 2024, 01:58:42 pmThose USB-SATA adaptors are for 2.5 inch drives and do NOT provide the 12 Volt supply which 3.5 inch drives require.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 03:48:26 pm
content: Look for PicoPSU(19V versions).

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 09:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: Zoli on January 13, 2024, 03:48:26 pmI've seen those and they all appear to plug into a 2x12 pin motherboard power connector, which of course the NUC doesn't have. Do they make a version that doesn't require the 24 pin connection?

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2024, 09:31:44 pm
content: Quote from: wasedadoc on January 13, 2024, 02:34:55 pmoomph- and I already had the feeling that those were to good to be true :-(

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 12:12:52 am
content: Quote from: BerMM on January 13, 2024, 09:09:42 pmYou can use the 24 pin version without any problems, since you have to power the HDD's only, and the PicoPSU have separate HDD supply output. Add a FET(you can solder it directly to the PicoPSU) to pull down pin16("Green wire") to GND, controlled by the NUC HDD +5V output, and you can power up to six 3.5" HDD's from the Pico PSU, IIRC. To give you an idea, I've drawn a quick schematic:

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 01:32:37 am
content: the pico power can be a good idea, and to take the control signal ... it depends where you take it, an swiched 5vdc when the Nuc is powered onyou have 2 internal usb port, 2 small white header, just a matter to see if their 5vdc is constant or fully switched on, no sleeping mode or power down mode in the windows power managementhttps://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/intel-nuc/NUC11TN_TechProdSpec.pdfpage 34 even the fp panel connector has 5v on pin 9, you have constant one once powered up, just use a 1 pin dupont wire jumper going out of the pc thru a small 1k resistor in serial of this wire add, and add the pico psu externally, the 19vdc one for the NUC and from another 12vdc connected to the pico psu with the control pin put to ground thru the mosfet circuiti think @Zoli as made a mistake on the used pinnot the hddand for the pico psu, just need to find the motherboard header to get the needed voltages, solder wires on it for the 12vdc 5v and 3.3v, normally drives use 5 and 12vdc ...cant recall where i saw them, but you had a pcb variant of the pico psu, but not having the motherboard header, it was for car projectsyou could take an female to 2x male "Y" adapter to power the NUC and the pico psu, BUT you would need a beefier 19vdc a 6 8 or 10 amps maybesome itemsfrom chinahttps://www.ebay.com/itm/266478793046?https://www.ebay.com/itm/133544534898?from usa but seems to miss one sata power connector, maybe solder one in parallelhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/155968957908?

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 03:18:54 am
content: Quote from: nightfire on January 13, 2024, 01:58:42 pmThe first phase of this is a Channels DVR server which is running great on 2280 SSDs (one system and apps, the other for data) in a Topton N1 Pro 5500U. The second phase is Plex, which has been a struggle. Adding the hard drives to the N1 Pro required replacing the system fan with a Noctua and replacing the decorative top grille with another Noctua. Plex mostly works on Ryzen except for realtime downconverting 4k video. I've been wanting to hide something useful in a NES as a bit of a challenge, and I saw an upcoming N305 board with dual SATA, so I figured I'd marry the two to get rid of my AMD+Plex issue and get more cooling flexibility. Then I remembered I had the NUC sitting unused and passmark puts it slightly faster than the N305, plus its much smaller than the N305 board, (and its BIOS is MUCH better than anything on AliExpress) so I started figuring out how to make it work. Plex isn't near as important as Channels DVR so this isn't an urgent build. I'm on disability so resources are always limited, but it's also a hobby and still far cheaper than renting Xfinity DVRs.Quote from: nightfire on January 13, 2024, 01:58:42 pmThat is the idea, Windows and apps on a 2.5 inch SSD, use my existing 4TB 2280 for DVR recordings, and convert the 2242 to dual SATA ports connecting the DC HC530 drives for Plex media.

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 05:08:48 am
content: What about this? 120W 19v NUC power brick to PicoPSU input. ATX pin 16 and ground pin to a master power switch I'll mount on the NES rear. PicoPSU SATA gets split to the two drives and fan. PicoPSU ATX +12v pin and ground pin to a male barrel connecter powering the NUC (manual states the power supply can be 12v-24v and 10a max). Set BIOS to not restore on power loss and this should power on the fan and drives before the front power button starts the system, avoiding the problem of poweron current. I'm not sure what the fan (Opolar LC06 or similar) draws, but the drives run 6w each, so I'm adding at most 15w onto the NUC power brick.

author: Zoli
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 06:46:50 am
content: Quote from: BerMM on January 14, 2024, 05:08:48 amTheoretically it will work. What you should consider is the PicoPSU efficiency and his 12V load capacity(is around 6-7A, IIRC).

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2024, 09:28:22 am
content: Quote from: Zoli on January 14, 2024, 06:46:50 amI don't think I'll find a better combo than thisRGEEK DC 16V~24V 200W PICO DC PSUand my existingHP 200W 19.5V power supply. That should be 80w average and 100w peak left for the NUC. According toServeTheHomethis NUC peaks at 64w and averages 49w at full load, so even with peripherals I should be fine (or minimal peripherals if rgeek is exaggerating).This just might pull it off. By my math, after the drives and fan it should leave 85w average and 130w peak for the NUC itself.https://www.ebay.com/itm/263087650726?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=0MyKed22SNW&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=Jn-nvnEkRq2&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY.Actually, these specs are too good to be true and the math doesn't add up.I can't seem to find any of these Pico PSU that accepts 19v input and outputs more than 8a on 12v. Makes sense when you consider what is usually drawn through an ATX connector.

author: JustMeHere
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 12:07:18 pm
content: Make sure to debounce your switch.

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 11:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: JustMeHere on January 15, 2024, 12:07:18 pmNear as I can tell I should use a toggle switch (rather than a momentary switch) to ground pin 16 on the pico psu. I've never heard of switch bounce until now. Is there a simple solution?

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2024, 11:58:50 pm
content: Quote from: BerMM on January 13, 2024, 08:39:22 amHi,For reliability I would probably ditch the power supply conversion idea and just buy a SATA to USB converter ready-made. The kind you need is for a 3.5 inch platform type hard drive. These come with wall warts and the power connector and everything.You plug into the wall, then plug into the hard drive. Done. If you are using USB then plug the USB output into the computer. Done.I've used these many times in the past.If you can get by with using USB 2.0 you can get them cheaper than the USB 3.0 types, usually. USB 3.0 when you need super-fast data transfer. USB 2.0 will still work though, just be slower data transfer, but I am guessing fast enough for this application.Obviously if you have two drives you need two SATA to USB converters. Not a huge expense though and probably years of operation

author: BerMM
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2024, 01:22:22 am
content: Quote from: MrAl on January 15, 2024, 11:58:50 pmI only use USB adapters/enclosures/docks to connect drives temporarily or for backup drives. In my experience they add overhead to transfer speeds and aren't as reliable. Thanks though.

author: MrAl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2024, 12:25:07 am
content: Quote from: BerMM on January 16, 2024, 01:22:22 amHi there,I think you may have been working with the older types because the newer types work very well and really all the time.This is especially true about the M2 type enclosures. If you get the NVMe type drive and enclosure using a USB 3.0 port, you can actually get very fast speeds at least 200MB/sec. If you get the SATA type drive and enclosure and USB 3.0 port, you can get at least 20MB/sec which isn't too bad if you only transfer small amounts of data in on one shot.I've been using these for years now. That's why I recommended these things. If you have had bad experiences with them, try another brand or something. It could also be an issue with the host computer.One thing I would never do again though is use anything USB 2.0 because that is so slooooow it's sickening. I have one enclosure that is USB 2.0 and I really don't like it. I got it when the cost of these things was much higher. It does work though, and I used it for a good 3 years, but only for backups not 24/7 like I do now with the newer types. Now I stick with USB 3.0 and if it isn't fast I'd send it back.