Bench multimeter reccomendation & My last bad experience  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 07:49:00 pm
content: Hi all,Ive been looking for a bench DMM 5.5 digit for some time now below the 600 euro ceiling. I am trying to decide between the Rigol dm3058e and the Siglnet SDM 3055.I already have a Rigol power supply and MSO and am very happy with both of them.On the other hand I had a bad experience with a Siglent function generator last year. It was bought brand new from an online shop but failed after a few months. It got stack on startup on the initial siglent screen. Siglent refused to give me a warranty repair because it turned out that i bought it from a non authorised dealer!I eventually had to sell it as broken on ebay for 50 euros and the person who bought it managed to fix it by re installing firmware and bootloader that got corrupt.What now scares me off Siglent is that i ve read other posts of people , even in this forum, facing similar problems with their equipment getting stuck on the initial screen.I do however prefer the siglent's DMM with the tft screen compared to the Rigol small LCD which looks..outdated!Any reccomendations, suggestions welcome.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 07:52:37 pm
content: Are you only interested in new ?

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 08:04:29 pm
content: Quote from: 4CX35000 on December 10, 2017, 07:52:37 pmI would also consider used if its a fairly recent model and the price is attractive. Wouldnt go for vintage gear though. ....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 08:36:00 pm
content: For your budget there you can buy a new GW Instek, Keithley or Keysight 5.5 digit bench DMM. No TFT displays but all these brands are well established.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 10, 2017, 10:07:50 pm
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 10, 2017, 08:04:29 pmI suggest you buy from a proper dealer if you have been burnt before. Multimeters in the 600 EU range are all reasonably good and reliable. Best thing I would suggest is to work out what you would want from a multimeter and see what is available from a good quality dealer. Farnell, RS Components, Mouser for example.As an example for ideas, do you want True RMS, high current measurement, low resistance or high resistance. USB ports on the rear to connect with a computer or a multimeter with high counts or is 5000 enough.Here I have TTI 1906 multimeters which are probably 15 years old now and work fine for me as they have a RS232 output on the rear which give me some access to functions, but if I was to look today for a new product, I would probably opt for a instrument which can interface fully with Labview.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 07:48:00 am
content: Thanks for the input 4CX35000.Yes, iam looking to buy something from a proper dealer now if going for brand new.Still however, the fact that this fault happened to more people puzzles me!As for specs, mind you i am currently using a Fluke 289 which is a brilliant meter other than its battery life. So i thought of getting a bench dmm as i am tired of changing batteries every month and having the meter going to auto-standby . A bit more accuracy could also come handy so i thought of going to 5.5 digits .

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 08:12:16 am
content: For that budget you would get an Agilent 34401A with a cal certificate and change from the US. Plenty on the bay of evil from Cal Labs if that gives you more peace of mind. Or take pot luck for a lot less

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 11:17:25 pm
content: I don't know about shipping and VAT, but on evilbay there is a new GW Instek GDM 8251A for $400 USD. You could inquire what shipping and VAT would be to you. Here is the link.https://www.ebay.com/itm/GW-Instek-GDM8251A-120000-Counts-5-1-2-Digit-Dual-Display-Digital-Multimeter-NEW/322368542666?hash=item4b0ea997ca:g:qxwAAOSwIaFZGwCHI bought 1 for under $100 USD when they were first listed after ITT shut down and there were plenty of them. Used ones can still be had under $200 USD.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 11:31:58 pm
content: For the price in the Ebay listing you can nearly buy the new GW Instek 5.5 digit model with better specs and warranty.

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2017, 11:38:30 pm
content: If you aren't in a hurry, 600€ could yield you a 6.5digit Prema or Schlumberger. It will outlast any newer one, I think.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 06:49:06 am
content: Quote from: Neomys Sapiens on December 11, 2017, 11:38:30 pmWhere can this be purchased from?

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 06:55:14 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on December 11, 2017, 08:12:16 amThere are definitely much more choices inthe US!Having it shipped in Europe plus taxes raises the total cost to the point that is not worth it anymore...

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 06:58:45 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 11, 2017, 11:31:58 pmWhich model are you referring to?Ebay though is not exactly an authorised dealer... do read my first post regarding my last experience with Siglent!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 07:46:51 am
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 12, 2017, 06:58:45 amShame you didn't find EEVblog earlier as Siglent themselves and a # of us dealers are here too to help in any way we can.There where some issues with older firmware that would cause a unit to fail booting however most of these incidences have been remedied with new firmware. Only a couple of series of instruments were affected.Proof of purchase the main determining factor with warranty claims IF no other purchase/warranty records are available.It seems you're in the EU but where ?

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 09:56:18 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on December 11, 2017, 08:12:16 amFor that budget her could have even three 34401As with a still valid cal ... I have got one for $200 and another was offered to me for the same price, because the seller couldn't find a buyer for it. The only fix needed was replacing a faded VFD display on it (a well known problem with these if they were used as a part of automated test gear).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 10:38:33 am
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 12, 2017, 06:58:45 amThe GDM-8351 for example. You can buy these from many equipment dealers and parts sellers like Farnell.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 10:46:41 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 12, 2017, 10:38:33 amEven RS have a reasonable selection:https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/digital-multimeters/1236465/It's a rebranded Siglent SDM3055 that some might confuse with a KS.

author: Insatman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 10:53:31 am
content: @ Watcher. I bought a new DM3058E last may of this year. It's been a good meter. The display is bright and the meter works well. I also own two used HP34401A meters I bought on Ebay. Both HP34401A meters track with 1 or 2 LSD counts of each other. The Rigol reads about -300uV, still within spec using a 10V reference as opposed to the HP34401A which has never been out more than 100uV.The main advantage of the DM3058E is the additional analysis features but it lacks the superior performance and resolution of the HP34401A meters.I can't speak for the Siglent meter, as I have no experience with it. I do own a new Siglent Spectrum Analyzer and I am very pleased with it.If you desire a new meter for whatever reason, I'd be sure to check out what is available from Keysight, Rigol and Siglent.My only regret with the DM3058E was not seriously considering getting it's bigger brother the DM3068 6.5 digit model, but is was way more expensive.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 11:22:43 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 12, 2017, 10:01:58 amSure, I got perhaps lucky - it was a local French seller and the meters came from a test rack (that's why the poor VFD readability - it was likely on 24/7 for years). If it didn't have a valid calibration sticker from the last year, I wouldn't have bought it neither. But seller saying it works, the item is visually in good shape and the calibration is recent means a good chance that it is actually working as expected (and it does, at least when compared with my other meters - don't have a reference good enough to verify a 6.5 digit meter accuracy).It is actually the more recent revision (uses the more recent display module that is still available), but the old HP branding and square buttons. OTOH, these meters are super well documented and fairly easy to maintain/repair if anything goes wrong with them unlike the more recent gear chock full of unobtanium ASICs. They are both reliable and there are plenty of spare parts around as they are being replaced, as it is a very old design. So there I wouldn't worry too much. But as always with used gear off eBay - do your homework. If you want reliability and not have to repair things, one needs to buy new.But for someone looking for a cheap bench meter they could do much worse than getting one of these, even the old model.

author: Helix70
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 12:06:20 pm
content: I have an Agilent branded 34401A with the square buttons. Until now I didn't even realise the newer ones had rounded buttons. So there you go.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 04:58:28 pm
content: Quote from: Insatman on December 12, 2017, 10:53:31 amWell Keysight seems to be kver my budget when it comes to brand new. Thats why i am juggling between the other two options. I dont think i have an application, for the forseable future, for 6.5 dig either to justify the extra cost.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 05:00:49 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 12, 2017, 07:01:07 amI dont have much repair experience so i d rather buy something that works...,

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 05:05:25 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on December 12, 2017, 07:46:51 amThats true, however i did try my lack both direct wirh Siglent and through a dealer.Sigkent said that they had to change the motherboard. .which at the end proved to be not true...And of course i had proof of purchase as the utem was payed via PayPal. Their issue however was that it was bought from a non authorised online dealer.I am in Cyprus by the way..

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 07:13:17 pm
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 12, 2017, 05:05:25 pmThere are some button bash remedies but it's mostly MB replacement as the factory doesn't want owners to be attempting firmware/software fixes for fear of ruining the unit further.There has been a gradual rollout of firmware that allows for a USB boot remedy and many models now incorporate this so that owners don't get caught with boot frozen units. AFAIK the factory needs be contacted for the USB recovery file.So yes, it's not true but it's the safest course of action for the factory to follow.In the past we have organised replacement MB's for members and the factory will supply them at a reasonable charge.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 10:53:58 pm
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 10, 2017, 07:49:00 pmI don't buy it. Nobody fixes something from an ebay bargain and then taunts the seller afterwards.QuoteRigol DM3058 and Siglent SDM3055 both use the same 2.5V 1ppm reference, MAX6325. The Rigol uses a cheaper AD7799 24 bit ADC that can only do 479 samples per second max (but in 5.5 digit mode will be more like 4.7). The Siglent uses an AD7190 24 bit ADC which is an order of magnitude faster and also an order of magnitude lower in noise.More importantly, when the SDM3055 first came out it was ludicrously slow and this was obviously a firmware issue. Siglent have been very pro-active fixing their firmware and the latest iteration is excellent.The Rigol DM3058 does NOT have any trend chart, despite having a histogram and recording history. The Siglent does and has a much bigger colour display for this too.The Rigol doesn't have any kind of useable HOLD function, despite the manual explaining how it works just like the 34401A or Keithley 2000 meters, it simply does not work and those stupid buttons with flashing lights behind them for Run/Hold and Single trigger are useless. I got told by Rigol that "nobody else complained!"Siglents version appears to work quite well and you can scroll in your history to see the trigger events etc.As for SCPI/LXI/USBTMC - The Rigol 3058 is advertised as Agilent 34401 compatible. It simply is not whatsoever, there is a massive totally obvious bug with the READ? command that I pointed out to Rigol many years ago. Nothing has been done to fix it.DM3058 is simply not fit for purpose. They abandoned it years ago but still sell it.Choosing between them, I would buy the Siglent in a heartbeat.

author: 4CX35000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 10:56:46 pm
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 11, 2017, 07:48:00 amSounds to me you just require a ordinary 5.5 display meter. Looking at Farnell and using the filters produces a list of (In Stock) 5.5 digit meters under 600 UK pounds shows the following list. List is in order of price - TTI 1908, TTI 1908P, Keithley 2110-220, Fluke 8808A, BK 5492BMy preference would be either the Fluke 8808A or the TTI 1908P, but it is a difficult choice as they are all good.You have used Fluke before, so the Fluke 8808A might be good choice.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 05:22:33 am
content: QuoteThat wasnt the case! I had actually asked the buyer to tell me how he dealt with the problem and he was very helpfull to explain how he managed to fix it. I wanted to know why Siglent insisted that the MB had to be replaced (at a cost that was almoast equivalent to buying another meter) and refused to offer any other assistance.Thanks for the rest of the info on Rigol.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 06:02:56 pm
content: Quote from: 4CX35000 on December 12, 2017, 10:56:46 pmWell UK pounds is not Euros plus you also have to add VAT which drives them well over 600 euro:)So, I am I to understand that you would recommend any of these models over the Rigol or Siglent?

author: kj7e
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 06:20:54 pm
content: Ive had both the Siglent SDM3055 and SDM3065X, both very fine meters and worked very well. For your price range I think you would be very happy with the SDM3055, its a good value and its a lot of meter for the price. While you could find a higher quality meter such as the 34401A for the same priced used (but unknown working order or calibration), there is something nice about brand new with a fresh cal and a warranty. I also found the modern LCD displays to be wonderful and love the trend piloting capability.

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2017, 06:55:01 pm
content: Quote from: kj7e on December 13, 2017, 06:20:54 pmThe fact is that it's not easy to justify spending all this money for a used meter of unknown condition when you can buy a brnad new for less even with lower spec.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 03:22:29 pm
content: I'd go for a (good VFD) used 34401A, anytimeThis is my goto benchmeter./BingoWho has:3478A3457A3458A34401AK2015

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 04:05:09 pm
content: Quote from: Watcher on December 10, 2017, 07:49:00 pmHello, Watcher.Your comment about"Siglent refused to give me a warranty repair because it turned out that i bought it from a non authorised dealer!"concerns us. Our policy in the EU is the same as here in NA. The 3 year warranty is valid whether you purchased it from an authorized dealer or not. We warranty the unit itself (assuming there was no user damage or abuse).That is not to say that an unauthorized dealer might not help you (they might or might not). That is, of course, one of the reasons we hope customers purchase only from authorized Siglent dealers.If you would like to send us the details of what happened and who you dealt with then we will certainly look in to it.Please contact us atinfo@siglent.comThank you

author: Watcher
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2017, 05:24:31 pm
content: QuoteThank you for your interest in my case.I still have all relevant correspondence even though unfortunately, as I said, I no longer have the device concerned.The messages from Siglent were undersigned by Lulu Yin / Siglent European ManagerI have just forwarded all relevant emails to the email address provided.Edit :For what its worth, it was pointed out by Lulu Yin, that it was in fact Jexy Wu from Singlet Technical Support who asked me to pay for the repair.

author: Insatman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 02:18:25 am
content: /BingoWho has:3478A3457A3458A34401AK20153457A Check3458A I wish...34401A Check 2xadd..3456A Surprisingly goodFL8505 Not as linear as I expectedK2001 or K2002 Again...I wish...

author: usagi
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 08:02:23 am
content: used multimeter buyer's guide