Help in rewiring guitar pickup (electrical circuit) for additional functions - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2019, 07:56:42 pm
content: Hello guys. I will be rewiring electrical circuit in guitar pickup as it appears it's missing critical green wire for extra options in electrical circuit. I will be identify positive and ground for each coil (2 coils total) and then solder color coded wires onto it. Total of 5 wires. Currently i only SEE 4, 2 whites and 2 blacks.The goal is to accomplish splitting the 2 pickups (electrical circuit) into single active coil and "in phase" and "out of phase" electrical circuit. I have attached picture below.I have taken my pickup apart and it has total of 4 visible cables (2 whites HOT? and two black GROUND?) and maybe hidden bare ground copper which i can not see at this moment in pickup itself. It's viable on kwikplug wire but not pickup which kinda adds to my confusion.Correct me if I am wrong but is the ground wire in the kwikplug itself and then soldered onto back of the pickup plate. However kwikplug itself has actual bare/ground wire coming out of it. Pictures below.I see 2 black wires and 2 white wires. I'm assuming blacks are negative from 2 coils and 2 white are positive from pickup coils. If you look at the GFS instructions below it appears to be the case.My plug is the last one identified with 4 conductor vinyl lead. The green wire (+ from one of the coils) that is critical is most likely one of the white wires from one of the coils. If you notice the manufacturer change colors on plug itself but used only 2 colors in pickup.Looks like i need to create bare/ground wire but what is the best place to originate it from? This could be totally wrong assumption however, hence me asking here for help pretty please?Obviously i will measure which coils is which and color code it to SD color scheme once identified. Will be adding colored cables as well.I will be bypassing kwikplug entirely and creating 5 wires total. 2 hots, 2 grounds from each coiland 1 bare ground i think that's for pickup housing ground?So based on those pictures below am i missing ground wire?If so where should solder the missing ground wire or is that ground/bare wire soldered onto pickup housing itself under kwikplug?Thank you and much appreciate your help.My pickup taken apart and colored wiresMy pickups from GFS colored codes and kwikplug color codesFinally once i get 5 wire and color code each wire i will be doing this wire up.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2019, 09:25:00 pm
content: I will help you but we need to go through this in a logical manner. I'll ask you some questions and based on what you find out with your DMM, I will be able to answer your questions and get your guitar wired up the way you want it. OK?(For the EE purists out there we all know that the signal from the guitar pickups is AC, so it really is a misnomer to call the leads "+ and -" but we will happily follow guitar conventions here to avoid confusion. Confused yet? OK.)Quote from: Rango on October 27, 2019, 07:56:42 pmOK, let's confirm this with the DMM. Check for continuity between the visible KwickPlug bare copper wire, and the back of the pickup plate. The connection might be made in the solder joint that holds the plug to the pickup, so you can't see it, but it is probably there.QuoteNever assume. Always check. So with the DMM check for continuity. It could be that one coil is black and the other coil is white. You are probably right but do check. If you have continuity from black to white that is good and yes the black wire is going to be the start of the winding ( "-" ). Also check for continuity between the coil wires and the case and ground wire. Sometimes the pickup case is grounded to the black wire itself; this should not be the case here but do check please.So please check these items, report back, and we will go from there.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2019, 09:34:12 pm
content: You will also need to identify which wire pair goes to which coil in the pickup, (slug or screw), and mark them somehow so we don't mix them up later.The Silver wire in the ThroBak diagram will be your KwickPlug cable's bare wire from the pickup housing, if that is what it is.The Jimmy Page wiring system (If it uses the same color code as the ThroBak diagram) seems to require full access to both coil windings of both pickups, so your KwikPlug cable needs to have 5 wires, not 4, and I don't see such a cable listed. Or rather, one of the pickups does seem to have both Black and Green to the same point, so for this pickup you could use your 4 wire cable and make the necessary connection at the pickup splice rather than at the pot.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 06:58:54 am
content: This is a form of torture. EE's think in schematics, not pictures of wiring.The absolute phase of each pickup is important if you are (audio) mixing them. Surely why there are unique colour codes with north and south, start/finish of each winding. Although there is a phase-invert (B-tone) switch.With OP's GFS pickup and two white, two black, it's a problem and possibly the controversy over their sound. I think OP will have to ID the correct phasing for Jimmy's mod to work?About the grounding, there are more docs out there on the kwikplug system.I would solder a wire from the outside of the pickup plate to ground. It doesn't seem to have a ground connection right now.I don't like the solder blobs on the inside of your pickup case, in case they hit the mag bar or fall off. What was going on there.edit: found Gibson's schematic, note series coil switch

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 07:12:30 am
content: as others have said, you can work out which wires are which coils with the DMM.you can also work out the phase of the coils with the DMM using an iron object like a screwdriver - attach the DMM to the coil in volts mode and slowly bring the iron closer to the coil, you should see the volts go down, or go up, as the first oscillation of the AC current.then you can keep track of which wire combinations give you the same phase, or out of phase, as required.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 07:28:11 am
content: If the pickups have each coil with white and black leads as I believe, instead of one coil both black and other coil both white, then the black lead is virtually certainly the Start of the winding, called "-" and the white lead the end of the winding. So that guides us in the phasing. Visual inspection of the disassembled pickup should confirm, and one could also check electrically as described above. Also one should check all the coil wires for continuity to the pickup housing itself. For the JP system they should not connect to the pup case; a separate 5th wire for ground is needed.So once we have color code, phasing (start, finish) and continuity checked for the pickups, we can make them conform to the color coding in the JP diagram and connect them up to the pots appropriately.If this were my guitar or that of one of my clients I would recommend getting rid of the KwikPlug system altogether. While it may be convenient for changing pickups around, any non-soldered connection inside a guitar will eventually cause problems. Look what it has already caused in confusion and frustration! Much better to just stick to soldered connections. How often, really, do you intend to swap pickups? In my opinion of course.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 10:21:46 pm
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 27, 2019, 09:25:00 pm@alsetalokin4017 thank you & everyone here very much for help. I have no problem with following your directions how you see it fit. I have grabbed bridge pickup instead of neck pickup as costs almost half the price so if I screw up it will be financially easier to replace if such situation arises. Also since those pickups were already wired onto guitar i actually had to cut the wire of the kwipklug so i can get to that bare wire. I hope me switching the pickup isn't confusing but i had to go with bridge first for cost purposes.I have checked with DMM between kwikplug bare (ground wire) and pickup shield housing and there IS continuity there. I checked between two wire on both coils and there IS NO CONTINUITY THERE, however i can check OMHs with no problem, both coils at ~7.2k ohm for each coil.Since the COLORS on wiring of kwikplug itself is way different then in pickups to avoid confusing myself and instructions from you going forward i have decided to cut the kwikplug out equation so I don't screw up. Also it will be easier to communicate here. Also inspection of the pick is now done. The continuity was both checked before cutting kwikplug and after cutting kwikplug with same result. NO continuity on pair of coil wires. I tested both coils.So this the pic of cheaper bridge 14.0kdual coil humbacker pickup with kwikplug and housing out. Each coil is ~7kthen. There is two 2 pairs of red and black coming out of each coil. Don't see any ground wire. It appears it was soldered onto kwikplug housing plate, and then kwikplug itself had bare wire coming out. I think the continuity test of bare kwikplug wire to shield confirms that. hehe...i'm learning!!!When i change to volts and i tap coil screw coil volts go up temporary. I guess that means pick up is working.Just to make sure i will ask, is there any other place i should look for that bare wire or should i solder it to the back of the pickup plate? I don't thinks but i will ask anyway.Also can i use electrical type to replace the current tape on those pickups. That glue i think it's gonna dry up pretty soon.Can the kwikplug housing be ignored or removed from the shield of the pickup. Don't wanna risk any shorts so figured i would ask about that too?Ok awaiting your fruther instructions. Again thank you.DSC_0182bySefyu, on FlickrDSC_0181bySefyu, on FlickrDSC_0179bySefyu, on FlickrDSC_0180bySefyu, on Flickr

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:01:39 am
content: Whaaat? When we started, you showed a photo of a pickup with two black wires and two white wires coming out of it. Now you are showing something different !! Black red white on one, and 2x black and red and some taped wire on the other, whaaaaaaaat?The tape normally used around the pickup coils is more like a cloth friction tape rather than a plastic electrical tape. I hope we will be using heatshrink, not tape, to insulate wire splices.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:18:17 am
content: 1. remove the KwickPlug system from both pickups. I mean actually unsolder the plug itself from the housing. This should reveal some convenient places to solder your own ground wire.2. Open the pickups so that you can see the red and black wires from all 4 coils.3. Referring now to the Bridge pickup: The Black wire from the Screw Coil is the start of the winding, and gets soldered to a longer BLACK wire.4. The Red wire from the Screw Coil of the Bridge Pup is the finish of the winding and gets soldered to a longer GREEN wire.5. The Black wire from the Slug Coil of the Bridge Pup is the start of that winding and gets soldered to a longer RED wire.6. The Red wire from the Slug Coil of the Bridge Pup is the finish of that winding and gets soldered to a longer WHITE wire.7. A bare or insulated wire needs to be soldered to the Bridge Pup Housing; this is the Ground wire and is the SILVER colored wire in the ThroBak and Jimmy Page diagrams.8. Insulate the splices with little lengths of heatshrink tubing. All 5 of these wires should be long enough to go from the pup to the pots without straining.9. Repeat 3-8 for the Neck pickup.10. Now you should have the right color code to wire up the Jimmy Page system as shown in the diagrams.I hope somebody else will check my work on the color coding, just to be sure.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:24:16 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 29, 2019, 12:01:39 amIf that's not ok i will bring other one out. Bridge is 40% cheaper then neck. Neck is vintage 59 and bridge is crunchy pat. If i sever one of the pickup wires that connects to wire leading out i will need to buy new pickup. It's cheaper to replace bridge then neck. If you require it i will do neck but i rather experiment with bridge. Same concept. Also i'm cutting kwikplug out of the equation since it's colored differently. Let me know.

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:31:37 am
content: OK, are you telling me that the bridge pickup has black and red wires, and the neck pickup has black and white wires? Fine, just follow the instructions above, except where the instructions for the neck pickup says "red", your neck pup has "white" instead.Don't panic if you break a wire. Pickups can be rewound, even with the same wire if you are careful.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 12:41:06 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 29, 2019, 12:18:17 amThank you. For colors are you using Seymour duncan wiring scheme or Thorbak. I thought we're going to identify north star north finish south finish south start. I hope you're NOT using Thorbak pic. We need SD = Seymour Duncan wiring scheme which is the one in video also i mentioned in first post SD wiring. This is the colors. I would rather say start finish then colors cause as the other guy posted literally every manufacture labels differently with colors. We need SD diagram. Can we clarity before we proceed THIS IS HUGELY IMPORTANT.How do i check this with DMM, i took it apart. I need to verify with DMM where is start and finish. I can't go this far by taking entire pickup apart and not verify the wiring scheme. You said to always verify.CapturebySefyu, on Flickr

author: alsetalokin4017
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 02:14:58 am
content: The color code I identified in my post will set your pickups -- the ones you showed in your pictures -- to work with the Jimmy Page wiring system that you posted in the diagram.We seem to be having a failure to communicate here. Maybe some one else can help you further.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 02:16:35 am
content: Quote from: alsetalokin4017 on October 29, 2019, 02:14:58 amWHAT PICTURE? Seymour Duncan or Thorbak?How do i test with DMM start and end of each pickup coil please?

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 03:00:09 am
content: start at the start.get one humbucker going, experiment with different ways of joining the coils - listen to the results, its obvious when you have them in phase or out of phase.sounds like you are trying to run before you can walk.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 08:23:15 pm
content: Quote from: rjp on October 29, 2019, 03:00:09 amThank you sir. Just did that. Here are the results. How do i know where is the start and end of each pickup coil. Which is start and end or north and south like shown in diagram below.GFS Crunch Pat (Bridge 14k)Screw Coil -- Red wire - Positive DMM readingScrew Coil – Black wire - Negative DMM readingSlug Coil – Red wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil – Black wire - Positive DMM readingGFS Vintage 59 (Neck 8.0k)Screw Coil -White wire – Positive DMM readingScrew Coil -Black wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil - White wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil -- Black wire – Positive DMM reading

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 01:59:23 am
content: Slug coil, Positive DMM is North Start is BlackSlug Coil, Negative DMM is North Finish is WhiteScrew Coil, Positve DMM is South Finish is RedScrew Coil, Negative DMM is South Start is Greenyou *might* have to swap the screw coil ones around, but thats going to be dead obvious if you wire up the first humbucker by itself and test how it sounds with the followingBlack -> direct to plug outputWhite -> connect to redGreen -> direct to plug groundignore all the pots, ignore the other humbucker, just run the single humbucker billy gibbons style straight to the plug and confirm its loud and confirm the chart above - switch the screw coil wirre around if its thin and weak.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 02:17:53 am
content: Quote from: rjp on October 30, 2019, 01:59:23 amThank you but this doesn't seem right. Correct me if i am wrong but you can't run plus into minus and expect electrical curent to be passed onto next circuit. That's what you did.This is a humbucker when you combine two single coils into one they must be negative or positive but not + into -, i think when one coil is combined with other forming dual coils circuit hence humming/humbucker.This is what i have currently. I think this may be right. If someone can confirm i would be greatly appreciative. If i'm wrong please point out what's wrong with it.I THINK FIRST COIL THE SLUG COIL IS ALWAYS POSITIVE AND BOTTOM IS ALWAYS NEGATIVE. I will post the picture in little bit as i'm not home right now.GFS Pickups Rewire to SD Pickups with SD corresponding colors.GFS Vintage 59 Humbucker (Neck 8.28k) – WIRE COMING OUT TO RIGHT – NECK SD PICKUP PICTUREDSlug Coil - White wire – Negative DMM reading – North Start (HOT OUTPUT) – BLACK WIRESlug Coil -- Black wire – Positive DMM reading - North Finish SERIES LINK – WHITEScrew Coil -White wire – Positive DMM reading – South Finish SERIES LINK - REDScrew Coil -Black wire – Negative DMM reading – South Start – GROUND – GREENGFS Crunch Pat Humbucker (Bridge 14.63k) -- WIRES COMING OUT TO LEFTSlug Coil – Black wire - Positive DMM reading – North Start (HOT OUTPUT) – BLACK WIRESlug Coil – Red wire – Negative DMM reading – North Finish SERIES LINK – WHITEScrew Coil – Black wire - Negative DMM reading – South Finish SERIES LINK – REDScrew Coil -- Red wire - Positive DMM reading – South Start – GROUND – GREEN

author: rjp
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 02:21:38 am
content: this is an AC circuit, not a DC one - the plus and minus are the first oscillations of the AC curve, so if you conect plus and minus they will subtract from each other and make a thin out of phase sound.do the simple hotrod humbcuker -> jack thing, instant confirmation of correct or fail, instant lesson on how those readings turn into wiringsno need to guess - by knowing the polarities you can make sure both humbuckers are the same and the signal adds instead of subtracts.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 04:47:29 am
content: So first pickup to the down of DMM is neck 8.2k ohm pickup. If you notice I think this is normal operation of humbucker where middle wires are combined. I believe that's two negatives or two positives.Second pickup is bridge 14.0k ohm in humbucker configuration. The Ohms check out but i'm not sure about polarity. Both Humbuckers currently have positive on first coil (first wire) and negative on second coil (4th wire). IIf i get polarity wrong on even one wire then entire MOD will NOT work. At this point all i need to identify where is north start ,north end, south end and south start with correct polarity.I've measure the polarity and posted wires.GFS Crunch Pat (Bridge 14k)Screw Coil -- Red wire - Positive DMM readingScrew Coil – Black wire - Negative DMM readingSlug Coil – Red wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil – Black wire - Positive DMM readingGFS Vintage 59 (Neck 8.0k)Screw Coil -White wire – Positive DMM readingScrew Coil -Black wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil - White wire – Negative DMM readingSlug Coil -- Black wire – Positive DMM readingDSC_0184bySefyu, on FlickrDSC_0185bySefyu, on FlickrI think in wiring most if not all humbuckers slugs are always up and screws are always down. You can flip them later but you can not flip the wires. I think this example is showing Neck pickup.

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 06:25:15 am
content: Quote from: rjp on October 30, 2019, 01:59:23 amI just looked at one of the humbuckers diagram and you are right that negative goes with positive in the middle. I think your color scheme is right on.Before i looked at yours again i redid mine according to humbucer normal operation and i got same exact color scheme you said in your post.I think you may be right. I'm not sure and if i'm wrong i apologize in advance. I'm not sure what you meant but neck pickups screws usually point north while bridge pickup screws point south when installed. Not sure if that's what you meant.I can not plug this into guitar as there is no strings on it, no nut. I want to have all electronics built before i gave it to luthier for nut jub, restring and full setup. So it's all wood as of now.You mean wire single humbucker to wires and plug it into amp via 1/4" cable?I have an headache from all the thinking into this.VERSION # 2 ...I THINK THIS MAY BE CORRECT. SAME AS YOURS.GFS Pickups Rewire to SD Pickups with SD corresponding colors.GFS Vintage 59 Humbucker (Neck 8.28k) – WIRE COMING OUT TO RIGHT – NECK SD PICKUP PICTUREDSlug Coil -- Black wire – Positive DMM reading – North Start – Black wireSlug Coil - White wire – Negative DMM reading – North Finish –White wireScrew Coil -White wire – Positive DMM reading – South Finish – Red wireScrew Coil -Black wire – Negative DMM reading – South Start – Green wireGFS Crunch Pat Humbucker (Bridge 14.63k) -- WIRES COMING OUT TO LEFTSlug Coil – Black wire - Positive DMM reading – North Start - Black wireSlug Coil – Red wire – Negative DMM reading – North Finish - White wireScrew Coil -- Red wire - Positive DMM reading – South Finish - Red wireScrew Coil – Black wire - Negative DMM reading – South Start - Green wire

author: Rango
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 30, 2019, 08:55:13 pm
content: I think i get it why you skipped manufacturers colors. Even manufacturer can screw up colors and ONLY thing that matters is DMM reading of the circuit/wires itself.Actually black wire is hot and white wire is ground on original wire and black is hot and red is negative on bridge pickup. Weird. I've tested this like 10 times on DMM.I'm waiting on analog meter so i can confirm as it's easier to read analog needle moving vs digital."..you *might* have to swap the screw coil ones around,"If you meant that screws point towards neck in neck and toward bridge to bridge that's how installation goes. If you meant something else that went over my head. I hope i get this right lol.THIS IS FINAL RESULT. Once i get the wires i will be wiring this. Hopefully it's all good.Slug Coil -- Black wire – Positive DMM reading – North Start – SD Black wire – HOT OUTPUTSlug Coil - White wire – Negative DMM reading – North Finish – SD White wire – SERIES LINKScrew Coil -White wire – Positive DMM reading – South Finish – SD Red wire – SERIES LINKScrew Coil -Black wire – Negative DMM reading – South Start – SD Green wire – GROUNDBridgeSlug Coil – Black wire - Positive DMM reading – North Start - SD Black wire – HOT OUTPUTSlug Coil – Red wire – Negative DMM reading – North Finish - SD White wire – SERIES LINKScrew Coil -- Red wire - Positive DMM reading – South Finish - SD Red wire – SERIES LINKScrew Coil – Black wire - Negative DMM reading – South Start - SD Green wire – GROUNDSeems correcthttp://www.1728.org/guitar1b.htm