Need assistance to help a disable friend with a controller - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 04:21:46 am
content: Hi guy's,First my name is Peter and i have a friend who lost both his arms in an accident and he was enjoying gaming before and i want to help him to get back in something he use to like to do as a hobby.I have already done a lot of reading on what was available for this and nothing was really answering his need or it was far too expansive since he only get social assistance and barely make it from months to months.I have no prior experience in electronics but i am a techsavy type of guy's and a 18 years 3D artist in the game industry and i learn pretty quick. I already know the basic for the type of project but need some advice and a little help to make for him the best DIY foot controller.What i am building is based on this instructables here :https://www.instructables.com/foot-operated-computer-mouse/But i want to do a few modifications that will make it better for a gamer since this project was more for a casual user browsing the net and doing little computer use.First the guy in the instructable use roller switch and i don't think this kind of switch would be the best choice for foot operations left/right clicking intensively in a game environement, so i made a small research and found this arcade button switch here :https://shop.xgaming.com/products/20-pack-arcade-buttons-no-switchesAlso i would like to ad to his foot controller another button for DPI changing but i am not sure about how to solder the wire to this Kailh SMT Mini Micro-switchand also not sure about the type of switch that would work for that type of function ,here a view of this switch in the mouse i bought for him, you can go to 3:24 to see the type of switch :For the left/right click buttons i just need to know which wire i need to solder on the arcade switch to the mouse clicking omron switch to make it work in parallel?Now for this i am not so sure how to tackle the hardest part i mean a controller that could trigger the wsad movement possibly on the same foot board and i already have an idea on the layout for this but struggle to find the type of switch or joystick that could be easily manipulate with foot.What would be ideal is somekind of multi directional rocker switch position in a cross layout like arrow keys on a keyboard. He tried with voice control but he cannot stop easy with voice command or move slowly in a control manner.Here the 3D prototype i made so you can better understand the kind of controller i want to make :Any suggestions are welcome to make this foot controller a reality. Thank in advance for any help you can provideRegards Peter

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 04:48:04 am
content: QuoteDid you forget to include the video link?QuoteYes, you'll solder the switch in parallel like the guy does in this video:https://youtu.be/zzi_7ADFs_w

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 05:31:27 am
content: Quote from: ledtester on February 08, 2021, 04:48:04 am

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 05:46:24 am
content: Personally, I would have, also, a separate left-click button on a separate little pod. The gamer can then offload that task, so right foot isn't so completely busy. As an option, you could still keep a (duplicate) left click button, on that foot actuated panel.NICE DESIGN WORK !You could, maybe, consider promoting and marketing as a side income.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 06:37:07 am
content: QuoteIf the left/right click buttons on the mouse are two-pronged switches you can just wire it up in parallel.If they are three pronged switches we should consult the switch's datasheet.For example, a lot of Logictech mice use the Omron D2FC-F-7N. The datasheet labels the terminals COM, NO and DUMMY and also states that the DUMMY terminal should not be connected to any circuit. Therefore you can connect your new switch to the COM and NO terminals ("NO" stands for "normally open") See the attached image for how the terminals are named on the D2FC-F-7N.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 06:52:42 am
content: Is there any stub remaining at the arm(s)? I did some controllers to enable amputee war vets to play saxophone (outfitted with solenoids). Project was sponsored byThe War Amps.Using skin conductance and four electrodes, inside an injection molded tub. The stub goes inside and as long as there is movement in say four directions. I did not use pushbutton switches, found them too fragile. Just stainless steel carriage bolts, very robust. So the stub just has to tap the bolts. Feet are pretty powerful and it's easy to mash switches.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 07:55:32 am
content: Quote from: RJHayward on February 08, 2021, 05:46:24 amThank RJ excellent suggestion regarding a separated left click didn't cross my mind and yes keeping the first left click on original pedal would still be handy to have there. The middle button is the jump(space) button so he could easily jump while moving forward and require often in games.You are not the first who suggest me to market the project since it could become very handy for many people who suffer from RSI like 3D artists and designer, programmer etc. But for the moment the only goal is to put back a smile on the face of a good friend who went trough hell after the accident since gaming was his passion.I made 2 models after a month of thinking and trying various 3D design but i discard the first one here since it was too complex and the stability of the foot was not very good because of the ball joint mechanism :

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 08:01:21 am
content: Quote from: ledtester on February 08, 2021, 06:37:07 amHi Ledtester and thank for helping, i can confirm that this is indeed an omron tree-pronged switch and they are both directly solder to the mouse circuit board without any wire. I was thinking of completely removing both by de-soldering and solder the wire directly on it.Thank for the schematic

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 08:09:44 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on February 08, 2021, 06:52:42 amHi floobydust and thank for the suggestion but he have no stumps and even part of the clavicle and shoulder was gone on his right arm.He will still need many more surgery to repair this area. For the push button i tried the stainless steal one and i found them pretty stiff and uncomfortable under the foot. The arcade buttons after reading a few people talking about them are pretty sturdy since they need to be able to take a serious beating by arcade gamers, they are also pretty cheap to replace and easy to install. I also thought about using the cherry mx blue switch like the one i draw on the controller prototype for WASD movement for the buttons but the mounting is not very easy to do and i need something that is easy to install.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 08:16:30 am
content: I forgot to put the text describing the way the controller is going to be use so here it is :After reading a lot on accelerometer and gyro i decide to discard these solutions because the player would have no stability for the cursor since it's pretty hard not to move at all the pedal when the foot is on it. The solution is rather simple since to be able to play fps games he only need to have control of both the movement wasd and the position of the cursor + a few extra buttons like dpi, left/right click and even a jump button on the top center of the pedal. This way he can easily move and control player camera. The proximity of the DPI button will come in handy if he want to play as a sniper.This concept is the one i think will be easier to build and would give optimal result since the foot pedal is mounted on teflon pads and stabilize with elastic bands to maintain it centered. The elastic bands need to have the correct tension factor so the pedal could glide to trigger the switches without too much effort and be hard enough to avoid accidental push on the pedal. I thought about springs but they often become looser after awhile and elastic bands are cheap and easy to replace.Now i need to figure out how to connect all 4 cherry mx switches and the jump and maybe another optional button, so far from i have read i would need an arduino Pro Micro or a clone of it since i have a hard time finding an arduino but i found this one here :https://www.amazon.ca/CANADUINO-STM32-Black-STM32F411CEU6-128M-Extra/dp/B08946CFLZ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=STM32+Black+Pill&qid=1612647216&s=electronics&sr=1-2Also i know the arduino pro micro have an internal resistor but i don't know if this one have the same feature.I don't know if this information is right but i saw someone saying that a pro micro can handle a maximum of 16 buttons.

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 04:20:57 pm
content: Quote from: polynut on February 08, 2021, 08:16:30 amHere's a CANADUINO Pro Micro from amazon.ca:https://www.amazon.ca/CANADUINO-Micro-Atmega32u4-Development-Board/dp/B01N4TVIQX/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=arduino+pro+micro&qid=1612800807&sr=8-8QuoteGet a few buttons working first.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 05:01:58 pm
content: For ideas:Ben Heck single handed controllers on youtube.Ebay Mame controlshttps://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=mame+joystick&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=game+joystick&_osacat=0you will find complete (simple) usb game control kits.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 02:27:03 am
content: Quote from: ledtester on February 08, 2021, 04:20:57 pmHi Ledtester and thank for the link but do you know if this pcb board have a resistor include in the chip?Regarding the buttons i only need to make 7 of them.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 03:41:01 am
content: Do i really need solder wick and flux paste since my budget is already in the red, darn they sold that for 20 $ each for a total of 40 $ + tax?

author: ledtester
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 04:05:57 am
content: QuoteWhat's the resistor used for? If it's used as a "pull-up" resistor you might not need it.Otherwise, resistors are pretty inexpensive, at least on amazon.com -- e.g.:https://www.amazon.com/McIgIcM-resistor-Electronics-resistors-assortment/dp/B06WRQS97Cor search ebay for "resistor assortment".QuoteNo - you won't need them.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 04:28:57 am
content: Quote from: ledtester on February 09, 2021, 04:05:57 amThank again for your help and for the resistor i was refering to what this guy mention at 1:28 in the video here :For the braid and paste i found cheap DIY if i ever need them.Regards Peter

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 02:38:17 am
content: I am trying to find the best switchs possible for the WASD at first my intention was to use cherry mx but the mounting seem a little bit problematic and would have to build custom bracket so they are sturdy enough for the foot daily operations.I also thought about using the arcade buttons since there is 12 in the package i have order but again i found them a little big and a little too close to the ankle, i can make the board larger but the legs will be spread in a non natural position and i am trying to make it as ergonomic as possible.Any idea or suggestions are welcome.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 12:53:15 pm
content: The arcade buttons have too much height, even in comparison to other pushbuttons because they have modular construction.The standard "guitar style" shiny medal posts are slow action and are only good to operate with boots.Which comes the question: Will this be used with shoes or barefoot?Although not disabled, I use a lot of foot pedals.I usually wear socks so that my feet can orient themselves best.I think shoes in this situation would be a hindrance.Maybe even some of those hospital socks that have those beads of silicone on them to make them non-slip?I can imagine that would make a big difference if your sensor used side-to-side motion.So, not as a solution, but as some ideas, here are some foot pedals that I own and use:https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Digital-Control-Computer-USB2/dp/B002MY6I7G/A secretary 3 pedal transcription unithttps://www.amazon.com/IK-Multimedia-Blueboard-wireless-controller/dp/B00BIPL9JW/A Bluetooth 4 elastomer button pedal boardhttps://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-SP-1-controller-Synthesizers-Machines/dp/B00063678A/A fairly standard single pedal that is often ganged with othershttps://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-FC7-Expression-Pedal-Keyboards/dp/B000UJHIS8/A high quality variable pedal

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 10:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: Renate on February 13, 2021, 12:53:15 pmHi Renate and thank for the suggestions, my initial idea is to use a very flexible and light kung fu slipper like the one here :https://www.amazon.ca/TAO-Traditional-Slippers-Comfortable-Numeric_7_Point_5/dp/B081QJ5ZZT/ref=pd_sbs_5?pd_rd_w=rDhy4&pf_rd_p=d28afa76-ad9c-4045-af77-d75769c810e3&pf_rd_r=GPWKZ16YKRW8PGECD826&pd_rd_r=c874aa3d-f221-4a61-be34-b8af7571d74e&pd_rd_wg=QE9d2&pd_rd_i=B08FKH2BN2&psc=1They are very flexible and it's almost like you have nothing on your foot, on the right one controlling the mouse i want to glue a mouse pad cut according to the sole shape. the left one will be left as it is to have better grip on the sliding pad.I read on some forum that the cherry mx blue was pretty sturdy and i like the small size they have but like i mention making a bracket to hold them vertically is not as easy as it's seem, not impossible but looking at the various type of bracket at the hardware store i am still not sure how to make them yet.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 11:34:43 pm
content: No, I don't like the Cherry switches.Ok, they are fine keyboard switches but this is in the land of the feet.First, I think you have to consider a 4 way tilt vs a 4 way slide.I can't say offhand which will be more confortable to use.I'd advice you to not get too serious on your first prototype as real life will give you feedback pretty quickly.Any action (tilt or slide) has to to have a firm mechanical stop (and not having the switch getting beat upon).I would say that the stops have to involve rubber on something structural.I think that your 4 way slide would work best with little magnets and reed switches.(Of course you could use fancier Hall effect sensors of either binary or variable sensing.)A 4 way tilt could use a strong central mounting spring and 4 reed switches.This is for a standard PC on Windows?You should also consider separate, unrelated footswitches for Alt-Tab or custom menu popup.Changing windows by mousing is a bit tedious.Or you could integrate them in the same unit.A little whipped up PC app could be helpful.Are they already using voice command or something?They have something to at least browse the internet?Is there urgency to get something working?

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 08:10:26 am
content: forgive me but just wondering what sort of accident can make you loose both arms at the same time,has they hacked off with a macheti in columbia?

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 12:27:44 pm
content: Quote from: m3vuv on February 14, 2021, 08:10:26 amshall we just stick to the electronics and the actual question at hand?

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 12:24:25 am
content: Hi Renate,The sensors you are proposing are probably interesting but unfortunately we already have the project budget in the red and i don't have the necessary knowledge to use them so that's why i am trying to keep thing the most simple and practical i can.The foot need to be perfectly stable for ease of use like left/right clicking so that's the reason i ditch solutions with spring and ball joint system.Last night i did this 3D schematic for the bracket i have in mind for the cherry mx switch to make them more sturdy with a rubber spacer :Can probably be improve but i think this should avoid braking the plastic casing of the cherry switch.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 12:25:17 am
content: A very unfortunate farming accident.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 01:24:01 am
content: I just think that a standard leaf or roller microswitch would work much better.Since it is through mounting you just need to screw it in from the top.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_snap-action_switchI don't know what they have to go on right now but if they don't have anything:Rip apart an old keyboard, find the page up/page down contacts, a bit of wood, a pair of hinges, a pair of switches and at least they can page through a book.That could be made to work in a bed too.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 03:52:56 am
content: Hi Renate,This is the kind of switch the DIY project i was inspired from was using, i am not discarding them yet but i would go in an electronic shop to see them and how they feel.No old keyboard lying around but i am capable enough to make the buttons work with an arduino micro pro clone pcb board.Currently waiting for some parts to arrive so i can finish the prototype and test it but each time i find a good pro micro clone it's always back order and the shipping date are late March.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 04:38:08 am
content: This is not related to you question.However, your friend may get inspiration from this person Youtube channel.He lost his arms as a child.https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCf87zCcTx0fIoYrqqx_Ut5A/videos

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 04:49:21 am
content: Would these type of switches work for electronics :https://www.amazon.ca/Gebildet-Waterproof-Button-Momentary-Stainless/dp/B08671VD54/ref=sr_1_20?dchild=1&keywords=metal+push+button+switch&qid=1613364458&sr=8-20There is also these here :https://www.amazon.ca/Twidec-Colors-Momentary-Pre-soldered-PBS-110-X6C/dp/B07RTZVZ6L/ref=sr_1_45?dchild=1&keywords=metal+push+button+switch&qid=1613364458&sr=8-45

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2021, 12:43:08 pm
content: Quote from: polynut on February 15, 2021, 04:49:21 amSorry, both of those are very bad.The first one is a popular style and is available in models costing $1 or $20.The one you cited is actually push-on/push-off, meaning alternate action.You want momentary action.Waterproof like this is bad because they put in a silicone seal that makes it more gooshy.Also, some of those switches are flush and you have to dig a finger in.The one you cited is the first that I've seen that are sticking out.I put switches like those on my PC case for power & reset, bought the push-on/push-off first accidentally.The second one is the standard cheap-o pushbutton.They have a metal plate hit the two contacts.They have no over-travel.They're horrible. I haven't used one of those in decades.For that style I usehttps://www.ckswitches.com/products/switches/product-details/Pushbutton/8020/That's snap action and a much better quality.You really do want a sensor more than a pushbutton.That could be a leaf or roller switch, a reed switch, a Hall effect, an opto interrupter, a strain gauge, an LVDT...Quote from: polynut on February 15, 2021, 03:52:56 amYeah, but you don't have the Arduino around either, do you?The crap keyboards at the big boxes are less than $10.Heck, I collect the little boards/cables out of trashed keyboards whenever I find one.No matter how groady the keyboards are, the PCBs are clean.I'm definitely a fan of providing a solution or multiple solutions based on a time frame."We want something in 30 minutes" "Ok, hand me the duct tape""We want something in 90 days" "Ok, let me get some consultants in on the color of the 3D printed case"Another idea: What about a digitizer surface, like a Wacom?Reworking the stylus would take some doing but you would end up with a nice, absolute positioning surface large enough for a degree of fine control.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 02:56:55 am
content: Quote from: Renate on February 15, 2021, 12:43:08 pmAt the price range i was also skeptical about the quality so thank for confirming. Regarding the type of switch i need is it momentary on off position?Unfortunately my knowledge on sensor switch is not very good and like i mention earlier we go with cheapest solution because of budget constrain.Well the keyboard solution is fairly cheap but i want to make something clean and the size of the arduino clone and the simplicity to hook it up seem a better option for an electronic illiterate like myself.The time is not an issue but i don't want to spend 3 months on this project since i want my friend to be happy the sooner possible.Again forget the wacom solution since we are on a budget and a lot of people seem to think that everybody can afford what they can but this is not the case for many.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 01:22:11 pm
content: Quote from: polynut on February 16, 2021, 02:56:55 amWell, that's my point.I don't know your friend's current options but the first question I'd ask is, "What is the minimal project that I could build that could give you some comfort?"Yes, of course, your gaming solution is good, but can't you knock off anything that will help in the meantime?For me, that would be a page down button so that I could read a book.If you're having a hard time getting some Arduino you might consider a PJRC Teensy 2.0.That's an ATMega32u4 also.Quote from: polynut on February 16, 2021, 02:56:55 amUsed ones on ebay are not expensive.Somebody could even donate you one.

author: polynut
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2021, 10:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: Renate on February 16, 2021, 01:22:11 pmHi Renate, for the moment he use voice command that i have program for him do to basic stuff like reading book or browsing the net and it is working OK but for gaming this is another ball game since nothing beat direct control like a controller.Regarding the arduino clone there is many available but i am not sure if they will do what i need but i will have a look at your recommendation.We have already cross the bar of the 200$ budget we had for the project and initially i thought that 130 $ would be enough.I need to decide for the type of switch i will use and there is an electronic shop near from where i live so i will get there to see what they have in stock.

author: Renate
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 19, 2021, 12:44:59 pm
content: Also consider media controls, play/stop/next/previous.For volume that Yamaha volume pedal would be pretty nice.