Altium Ground Plane...4 layer board HELP!!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 09:58:09 pm
content: Hi All,I am designing a 4-layer board in Altium Designer 13 and am having a really hard time figuring out how to connect my components on the Top layer to a ground plane on the second layer. Here is what I have done thus far...1.) Design\Layer Stack Manager I added two planes in the middle of the board. So now it goes Top - GND - Quiet - Bottom2.) Configured Drill Pairs Adding drills for Top-Gnd Top-Bottom and Bottom- GND3.) Next the Rules... Design\Rules\Routing Via StyleI added two new rules they go like this... ((StartLayer = 'Top') and (StopLayer = 'GND')) and the other is similar...Now that I have set this up I am still unable to access the GND layer "layer 2" using the "interactive Route Connections". It only creates a via connecting top and bottom. Also I added my Ground netlist to the GND plane "Layer 2".... I have also played around with the Plane\Power Plane Connect Style rule to no avail...I am also trying to create a split power plane on the second layer using the Polygon Pour option but the GND plane does not appear as a choice for the polygon...Could this all be resolved if I did not define the 2nd layer as a plane and instead as a layer?Thanks for any input, I NEED you!

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 10:04:25 pm
content: For 4layer designs where you will want to cheat occasionally putting a signal trace on power layer or something, and for copmlex split planes, yes I set the inner layers to signal and then place polygon pours.As long as your GND net matches the name of the polygon pour they will connect. Switch to 3d view and fly inside the board to look at the via to confirm it's connected to the pour.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 10:04:54 pm
content: why do you muck about with the stop rules and drill pairs ? are you doing depth controlled drilling ? blind via's ?split power planes are not made using polygon pours. You simply draw an outline. that's all.

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 10:26:52 pm
content: Thanks marshallh that worked! The way it is set up is with blind via's... I know there is a large risk of the via's not getting fully plated... so that being said is there an easy way to have the via's go through the entire board but only connect at the GND layer?

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 10:28:42 pm
content: But in the four layer manufacturing process doesn't each layer get plated separately then sandwiched together?

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 11:10:30 pm
content: You don't want blind vias... the default settings are fine for through vias.You can adjust the thicknesses if you want to use the builtin impedance calculator

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2013, 11:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: mechknoll on September 08, 2013, 10:26:52 pmSet the layer two to plane, make it GND. While interactive routing, just switch a layer, and exit from the routing. All vias, which are connected in the plane, they will have an X on it, the ones which are not connected will have a ring with the layer color. Also, check the gerber output, it is self explanatory. Planes are inverse.You dont want your board to have microvias. It expensive. A lot.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 05:58:55 am
content: Actually anything else than through vias is expensive. I once saw a quote of 6k€ for prototype and 700€/pc in production run for such pcb (~20 layers, blind/buried/stacked/plugged vias, metalcore, controlled impedance, rigid-flex).

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2013, 06:39:21 am
content: Quote from: mechknoll on September 08, 2013, 10:28:42 pmLooks like we have someone making a board that has no clue how boards are made. Classical recepy for a catstrophic failure !Why do you want blind via's ? You using 0201 and 01005 partts ? Is this an hdi board?A four layer starts as a double sided board consisting of the two inner layers. Traces are etched.Then two single sided outer layers are added, drilled, plated and them etched.Done. Bord is ready.Please explain what you are trying to do . I am seriously indoubt you need vlind and or plugged vias. Anyone needing that kind of hdi technology would know how a board is made and would certainly know how altium works.

author: mechknoll
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2013, 05:06:21 pm
content: Yea I didnt want blind via's and no way I am using them. This is a 24-bit ADC design to be used with an atomic force microscope. And I may be new to Altium "Free-electron" but I can still calculate your wave-function in my sleep!

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2013, 06:42:56 pm
content: My point is :Stay off the advanced controls. You don't need them. Leave the inner rings be. Don't mess with the drill pairs , don't mess with the stop layers. You don't need to touch that. You are over-complicating the design setup because your fundamental PCB design skills are missing. That is a recipy for disaster. It is also the reason you are having a 'hard time' : you are playing with settings that are for very high end boards where you need to know how the board is made layer by layer and what layer combinations are possible. this depends form board fab to board fab !for what you are doing the default settings in altium will do just fine. define your layer stack ,set width and clearances and via drill sizes.that process works for 99.99% of the projects out there.Playing with stop layers and drill pairs only comes into effect if you are doing HDI boards , laser via's and other wizardry. No need to worry about it.So when i see a post like yours a little voice says : something is wrong here... he's playing with controls for HDI boards he should know how to configure the tool for that ... yet the other questions are 'newbie' ( not a bad word ! ) questions. this clashes...I don't mean anything of this in a degrading or bad sense. You simply need more guidance. Now you are the lobster being thrown in the cooking pot ... your place of employment should provide more tutoring in these things. they can't expect you to pull this off without a modicum of tutoring.