Ferrite bead on spark plug wire? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 11:00:41 am
content: I'm interested in trying some ferrite beads, the split kind that clamp around a mains lead, on the spark plug wires on my car. Does anyone here have any experience doing this? I have never heard of people doing this before. Are there different grades of ferrite for different frequencies?

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 12:30:07 pm
content: XY problem, what specifically are you trying to achieve that a resistive spark plug or spark plug wire doesn't achieve?A single ferrite bead of reasonable size is probably at most going to be in the single digit k-ohm range of impedance, which is about the same range the spark plug resistance, or wire resistance should be. I'd have concerns over core saturation with high currents as the spark plug fires.Edit:shot in the dark: if it's "my stereo has a whine that varies with RPM" Id look at ground bonding in the vehicle. Make sure your engine block to frame, and battery to frame ground straps are in good condition. And make sure the bolted connection for engine block to alternator is clean too.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 12:43:49 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 10, 2024, 11:00:41 amI've heard of it being useful for ignition emi suppression and less unreliable than resistive caps or leads, but it's anecdotal, I've no personal experience.I'd have thought the ferrite in those things would be a mix generally suited to that kind of duty, though probably not particularly well controlled at manufacture.It would be interesting to find out what the reactance would be in that situation.Regards,X

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 04:26:34 pm
content: A clamp ferrite core for EMI suppression of a spark plug wire will definitely work, but may not make a lot of difference if you already have resistive wires and spark plugs. The ferrite type affects frequency range but the selection is more limited for clamp on cores because they are mostly for solving the same problems.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 04:53:32 pm
content: Definitely won't work. When a wire sparks, the sudden change in voltage propagates up the wire at its characteristic impedance, say 100-150Ω, with a rise time of perhaps a fraction of a ns. (Which, if it's a spark of say 10kV, that's 100A peak easily.) The impedance is high in relation to a ferrite bead (say 30 to 300Ω) so not much attenuation is had in the linear case, and the voltage is high therefore the flux rises very quickly, saturating the bead in a few ns -- more delaying rather than attenuating the edge.Tim

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 05:44:40 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 10, 2024, 04:53:32 pmOoh yeah...Loaded question.In the conjunction that wire ht leads are being used, (I'm looking at Circlotrons avatar of the T Ford).What if they were wrapped around a ferrite core multiple times in an attempt to increase the reactance to the 5 - 10k needed to have a worthwhile effect?Regards,X

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 06:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 10, 2024, 04:53:32 pmWhich brings up something I should have said. The clamp needs to be applied close to the spark plug instead of at the coil output. The fastest pulse edge originates at the spark plug and not the ignition.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 08:29:12 pm
content: Quote from: Xena E on June 10, 2024, 05:44:40 pmHa, because ferrite loaded?...Yes, many turns gets value, also more flux before saturation. This has diminishing returns in two respects: 1. self-capacitance between turns reduces the impedance peak frequency, 2. the core itself is conductive, so is a factor in this as well: the winding is around the core, so always has some capacitance through it. You need both enough turns and enough segments (separate cores?) to get really high impedances. Or less conductive material (NiZn, but then the impedance is less, too). Even then, capacitance to nearby material, or by itself to free space, ultimately limits impedance. At relevant frequencies here (~100s MHz), I would guess achieving more than a kohm, over a broad frequency range (octaves), would be challenging if not outright impossible.But more to the point, all we really need is filtering, isolation between plug end and cable; and an RC filter does an excellent job, both limiting peak spark current (controls wear, probably?) and offering more series impedance, and some distributed capacitance that keeps EMI down.Any impedance divider, or ladder network, or distributed equivalent, will do; the resistor is just far more compact considering the high voltage and therefore high impedance.Quote from: David Hess on June 10, 2024, 06:00:50 pmYup; and there's still some crud coming from the coil, but that's usually in the µs timescale as ignition driver transistors are designed for limited turn-off speed (for example, IGBTs with huge internal gate resistors)Tim

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 09:13:05 pm
content: There's a bunch of youtube videos of people in third-world countries adding a clamp-on ferrite bead and the spark appears different "more stable" or +1HP gain!If adding any inductance to the secondary-side was a good idea, I think it would have been done 70 years ago when radio hit the road, in aircraft etc when RFI was a big problem.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 09:21:00 pm
content: i mean whos the say the mechanical guy just threw some generic spark plug crap he knew in there and it was not engineered properly.I dont think you should mess with this unless the engine was inspected by a engine technician though, if your still on gas. Like emissions test etc.Seems like you would need to get quite into engines to figure out exactly what this does and how it effects your car.my crystal ball shows a unregistered uninsured honda civic billowing red gas out the exhaust pipe before breaking down on the side of the road

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 11:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on June 10, 2024, 08:29:12 pmQuote from: T3sl4co1l on June 10, 2024, 08:29:12 pmThanks for the clarification. I was going to ask the OP if it was actually for a T Ford (those having twin spark plugs/cylinder, and trembler coil ignition, initially I believe), and wondered about any special considerations they wanted to reveal...I was interested in this for my own use, and did also ask an automotive electrical guy I know, who works in autosport about it after seeing this thread. Although he was light on the theory behind the ferrite bead suppression, he did concur that it would be of limited use.What he did say was, that for a traditional Kettering ignition system, HT cables wound with resistance wire, over a glass fibre core, plus resistive caps was probably the best things would get for suppression, with the possibility of an outer shield helping a little further.He said that all the foo foo automotive ideas in the world are only claimed to work because those who spend their time and money on themwantthem to work.RegardsX

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2024, 11:37:59 pm
content: Shieldhttps://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/shieldbraid.phpShield = capacitance?https://thunderproducts.com/product/hotwire-spark-plug-wire/Series gap?https://www.steadygarage.com/products/flashing-spark-plug-cap-0-degree-straight-red-blueCustomers have reported up to 15HP (normally aspirated) & 35HP (s/c, turbo, & nitrous)https://granatellimotorsports.com/i-30500949-granatellimotor-sports0-ohm-high-performance-spark-plug-wires.html

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 12:53:32 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 10, 2024, 09:13:05 pmPulse shaping can be done with a lumped element transmission line to extend the spark duration and energy while reducing the peak power, but nobody bothers unless the extra complexity is worth it.Resistive plugs and resistive wires are a simpler solution for controlling electromagnetic interference.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 01:41:31 am
content: Quote from: Xena E on June 10, 2024, 11:23:31 pmI used the term "my" car as a generic description. I actually make ignition systems for race cars, street machines, hotrods etc for a certain company and have done so for over 30 years. Usual installation uses spiral core plug leads and non resistor plugs. This is usually quite okay. Once in a while a customer will have EMI issues where an installation will misbehave. Often it is simply grounding issues. I was also looking for a way to get some extra margin against radiated noise. As T3sl4co1l pointed out, when the plug fires the voltage across it drops very suddenly, from maybe 10-20kV to ~1500V in nanoseconds. I was thinking if I had a bit of inductance at the plug end of the wire it would act with the stray capacitance of the wire to slow down the dv/dt upstream of the inductor at the instant of the initial arc. Typical voltage rise time across the plug is ~8uS but we are not talking about this, rather the sudden fall in voltage as the plug breaks over and arcs. And yes, I'm familiar with the difference between an arc and a glow discharge. I'm using the term "arc" loosely here.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 06:51:16 am
content: Circlotron.Thanks for returning with the information.Quote from: Circlotron on June 11, 2024, 01:41:31 amCool jobI did have one further thought. Although the multiple passes through the ferrite bead isn't practical, perhaps multiple ones along the lead may be helpful in some circumstances?Of course the effect would be additive as far as reactance is concerned unlike the multiturn idea which would I assume follow the square of the turns.I wonder, how deeply does someone such as yourself delve into this, as I had wondered about using something like a current probe to look at the effects of different ideas on the ignition pulse to the plug.My interest is that I have a M/Cycle that I go on club rides with and we have short range intercoms, my machine is the only one in the group that affects the use of the intercoms.I have no problem with the way the machine runs or performs.The ignition system has been replaced pretty much, but the problem remains, (some) other people with the same machine I have contacted about it have reported similar putt, putt, putt, noise in their companions head sets on transmit.I think the original leads may have been carbon, they were the reason behind the low price I paid for the machine and had to be replaced, the new replacement had failed intermittent within months, the ones in use now are coiled resistance wire with normal cap.Changing the plug cap to a 5k resistive type made starting performance poor .The bike is an '85 CBR500 and the intercom I'll have to check the make, but is a fairly generic 433MHz PMR type thing I think.Today I think I may try finding a ferrite and try your idea, there's not much expectation of a positive result, but just to see if it does anything.Thanks for an interesting thread.Regards,X.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 07:06:58 am
content: Most automotive ignition coils used in a distributor setup have the unseen end of the secondary winding connected to the primary (+) terminal. Not sure if your bike is like this, but if it is, make sure it has a film capacitor of at least 0.47uF between coil + and cylinder head. Make this connection as sort as reasonably possible. This will give a path for the HF component of the spark current to get to ground without going via the wiring loom. This will help prevent upsetting on board electronics and also reduce the chances of the entire wiring loom acting as a transmitting antenna.This capacitor is very different from the one that goes from coil (-) to ground, i.e. across the breaker points or equivalent.The above is assuming the bike has an inductive discharge ignition, not a CDI.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 07:19:56 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 11, 2024, 01:41:31 amInductance has a first line effect, but mind that no inductor is ideal, and without a shunt capacitor to set the impedance lower (above a cutoff frequency), you need a real big value to have much effect (and again, cored probably won't do, so we're talking air core). Note the cable capacitance is tiny in relation, again because it's just Zo * length, but also the wave only sees a bit of the cable at a time, it's somewhere between a lumped element and transmission line case here. Put another way, if you're relying on the cable to act as a capacitance, that means its filtering value is derived from the electric field around it; it necessarily will have HF content in the air around it. Less than without the coil, perhaps, but not as much with a capacitor proper.Needless to say, a bypass cap at ignition voltages isn't exactly practical either...You also need some damping, else you just get a resonant peak at the (cable + coil) capacitance + sparkplug inductor frequency; you might have less spectral noise overall but it's been squashed into one or few taller peaks, worse for anything in those bands."Spark" and "arc" are adequate terms here; "spark" more colloquially as a brief discharge, and "arc" a correct description of the conditions (V/I, distance, pressure).Tim

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 09:33:01 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 11, 2024, 07:06:58 amThanks.I have to correct myself (again) caught out by typo, the Bike is a XBR500 not CBR. There's not many about in the UK.It's a single pot engine, it's obviously not distributor, but I don't think any Hondas are, I think the multi cylinder ones just use individual coils or wasted spark systems?It is a CD ignition system so perhaps it was a trait of the systemMay be worth trying to look at the waveform, the system is durable but I'm now wondering if the coil switching is vicious? I'll have to look at something well behaved to compare it with as I've zero experience with this kind of thingWhat's the best way to check, pick up coil round the HT lead or toroidal core probe?Regards,X

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 11:12:56 am
content: Quote from: Xena E on June 11, 2024, 09:33:01 amI use a 100 ohm 5 watt wire wound resistor and a 33nF capacitor in parallel. One end goes to ground and aim a 5-10mm spark at the other end. Don't connect to the plug wire directly. Put your scope across the parallel R&C to find current and duration. Haven't played with a bike CDI but a rough guess I'd say about 200mA current and 100uS duration. Guess tolerance is +/- 50%. Of course, you can't run the motor like this, but just cranking should be okay for a measurement.A 5 watt wire wound resistor is way more powerful than necessary, but is is insurance against going open circuit and allowing your scope to get a surprise.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 04:30:23 pm
content: Quote from: Xena E on June 11, 2024, 09:33:01 amAn oscilloscope current probe which is a toroidal core probe will work to measure the current.Measuring the voltage could be done with a *real* oscilloscope high voltage probe, like a Tektronix P6015A. A high voltage capacitive divider might work but the mechanical construction would be difficult unless you have a machine shop.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2024, 09:08:46 pm
content: OK.Thanks to all for their sage advice,That set up that joeqsmith has is seriously impressiveThe discussion gave me the incentive to get on and do this thing and investigate rather than put up with it.I was considering the probe route to have a look at the waveform on the HT lead, and was thinking how to liberate the relevant equipment from work, but then considered what I wanted to achieve if the investigation was successful.I don't think my popularity was going to improve if I wrecked any of the work kit, and the CRO I have at home is an old friend, and I'd be pissed at myself if I managed to zap it.My thoughts about this being a job for some parallel capacitance as suggested, and relatively easy to implement for a first (cut and) try.I'd found some close weave braiding in the waste that was stripped from some coax and used to sleeve the bikes previously removed HT lead to the plug with. I didn't so far measure the core to braid capacitance which I should as it may give clues to what's happening.I switched on my air band radio, (can't find the PMR one at the moment!), and started the motor. The unscreened cable made the radio swamp with ignition noise.With the "screened" cable however and with the braid clipped to the head, the level of noise was reduced to the point that it was possible to hear the alternator whirr on the radio as well: the difference was not markedly great in volume, perhaps 6db less, (a quarter), but that didn't take into account the effect the AGC would be having in the set as well.@ Circlotron...Both times I tried with, then without a randomly chosen (that fitted) clip on core from my junk box. Really I have to say no difference.Nowhere near perfect, but a Crusty the Clown approved good enough for me.Thing is, this was just purely empirical research... I nowwantto see those HT waveforms more than ever...

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2024, 11:20:30 am
content: My own test equipment is inadequate for this.I really can't use any of the capable stuff at work for understandable reasons, it would set a precedence, cause possible damage, insurance, heath and safetyIf a department boss is doing it, why can't everybody?I can see the use of the pressure vessel, though if I rigged a probe to see the breakdown point then would a reasonably fast real time scope not show the difference, A-B with testing on a running motor ?With respect to the comments about plug gap: before messing with the plug, a new one is ordered, I took the old one out to identify it, (the jobs a pain even with the right socket as its recessed). The one fitted is a copper cored part that was what was sent when ordered for the bike at its last service, not even a considered choice. In checking the manufacturers recommended part I find that it is specified as a resistive core (NGK), and the fitted plug is definitely not resistive, (tested)... that could have a bearing on the problem.[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]The bikes previous keeper did very little mileage with it, and sold it on to me for quite cheap, sold as seen, because of bad starting and rough idle. After new ignition parts that I'd had put on and servicing it had been OK apart from the interference.I've ordered materials for a service now, and I'll post up the results when I try the new plug... I'll also regap the old plug to try that, as well as measuring the braid to core capacitance of the HT cable too.Regards,X

author: mr ed
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2024, 12:24:01 am
content: Piston aircraft use fully shielded plugs and wires as the main navigation and comm radios are AM only. This works well, it has to.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 02:55:51 pm
content: Hello!Experimentally, I mounted an uncut ferrite cylinder on the ignition cable of my 2T motorcycle, close to the induction coil (transistorized Kettering system).As a result, the RF disturbances disappeared, starting is easier, but there was a delay in the ignition advance of approx. 0,4-0,5 ms, equivalent to approx. 3 degrees at idle speed (1200 r/m) with the effect of decreasing the engine power and torque at low speeds.I compensated for this effect in the adjustment with repositioning the breaker by +3 degrees and now everything is ok.Can someone explain to me the effect of such a large delay (approx. 500 microseconds) of the ignition signal by mounting the ferrite cylinder on the cable?The ignition cable is single-wire, copper and I do not know the specifications of the ferrite ring-cylinder, recovered from a tube TV monitor.Thank you.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 03:36:12 pm
content: My thinking is that the ignition wire acts as a charge line, so when the points open, the flyback from the ignition coil starts charging the capacitance of the charge line until breakdown occurs at the spark plug. With the extra inductance at the ignition coil side, the initial charge current is limited so the charging of the charge line is delayed.The reason I do not understand why it makes a difference, is that the secondary of the coil has a lot of series resistance anyway, so adding some inductance should not matter.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 07:14:46 pm
content: I don't know how a engine works but can it be related to the burn rate of the gas ignited by a different spark or is it 100% related to the exact timing point of a trigger?I basically thought the explosion moves at the speed of sound or close to it, and the problem is basically a sphere of reaction expanding to a certain dimension.Just a guess calculation: (from time the spark 'strikes' at the speed of light)with a colder spark you start out with a ball of reaction with a diameter of 0.1mm at the time of ignitionwith a hotter spark you start out with a ball of reaction with a diameter 0.5mm at the time of ignitionthe idea being the total time it takes for the reaction to get to 20mm diameter (imagine the piston was a 20mm sphere) to fully fill it with chemical reaction.So its like a integral with 0.1 ∫ 20 vs 0.5 ∫ 20 where distance is used as the input and the output is time. Since the spark (at the speed of light) started a bigger 'reaction ball' or 'front' it takes less time for it to expand to full dimensions by some constant.. basically it has less distance to cover since it started bigger. One equation covers 19.9 mm and the other one covers 19.5 mm with the same 'rate'.So like if you had a bon fire that you light 1 log on fire or 2 logs on fire at the start (how many sticks of burning wood you throw under it)? If two are burning at time 0 it will reach full burn faster.The speed of a spark is very fast compared to the speed of burning (in the case of the bon fire, pre-lighting a log and throwing it under the pile of wood is instantanous compared to the time it takes for the fire to start (like a minute).If your ferrite is doing anything, one of the things its doing is V=iR. You are increasing the R to some level to limit peak current (current limiting), in a general sense. So you have lower current (same effect as making the spark plug wire more resistive). Maybe another way to think about is how much lighter fluid you use to start a BBQ, there is some upper limit where it stops making sense but you can certainly use too littleI notice the more current you put in a spark it gets physically fatter/wider. It should be a 'head start'.Now if you can start a fire that moves faster is a interesting question rather then a fire which only has to move less. Then it would be like a catalyst or mode of reaction... in that case it would be like detonation behavior (explosives do this) based on initial conditions... more primer = better explosion .. I don't know if simple fire does the same thing

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 08:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 22, 2025, 07:14:46 pmThe timing of the spark is directly related to the burn speed of the compressed gas/air mix, you want peak cylinder pressure to occur a little after TDC, 10-15 cranks degrees typically. The spark needs to have sufficient energy to ignite the compressed mixture, but having more spark energy doesn't change the burn rate.Quote from: coppercone2 on June 22, 2025, 07:14:46 pmThe flame front moves a lot more slowly than the speed of sound (by approximately an order of magnitude) unless the engine suffers from detonation. There fuel/air mix burns in a controlled manner rather than an explosion.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 08:38:24 pm
content: Still, I think that you get a different initial size of 'fully engulfed' material from a bigger spark so it would spread to the same volume slightly faster... it will have less ground to cover. I bet you can measure the diameter of the spark with a filter and slow motion camera to get its dimensions. I think combustion, explosion, etc.... all spreads in a 'expanding balloon' fashion, at least on a very simple analysis. I guess if its burning slower and a gas you might have 'convection' occurring too.It sounds like there is alot more going on but the initial size of burning material must have some effect.If you drop a match on a pool of oil it spreads fire in a expanding circleif the reaction is slow, and the delay is in the microsecond range, a small change in 'distance' could be part of the answerthe left one will take slightly longer to grow then the right one

author: Seekonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 09:24:09 pm
content: GASEOUS CONDUCTORS by Jams Dillon Cobine is probably still the best reference book out there and I reference it more than any other book. I have a couple books from his private library. Firing voltage increases with pressure. Not much of a car guy but I retrofit the old sun distributor machines with LED. Frankenstein couldn't have come up with anything better to look at.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 09:43:09 pm
content: does the 'breaker' have something to do with pressure adjustment?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 11:23:48 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 22, 2025, 02:55:51 pmProvide details of your setup, how you made the measurements, photos and such. Enough detail to replicate your claim. 400-500us is a long time.I don't know that a 2T motorcycle would be. Mine are all in-line 4s, 4-strokes. Let's say 10000 RPM on the high side. Or 166.7 RPS. Or 6ms per crank rotation. Or 16.7us per degree of crank rotation. At 400us, that's 24 degrees. For my sport bike, I retard the timing a fair amount to start the engine. Once running, I change to a fixed timing (no advancement curve). Around 30 deg BTDC. It seems like having that much delay would cause a major problem.Quote from: Seekonk on June 22, 2025, 09:24:09 pmFrom my own dabbling with internal combustion engines and pressure, my engines are all turbo charged. At higher pressures, I need to close the spark plug's gap a fair amount. In the context of a ICE, agree but there is always Paschen's Lawhttps://www.duniway.com/sites/default/files/images/_pg/paschen-curve.pdfI remember your posts about the vintage Sun. Assuming you have access, it would be easy enough for you to replicate the above post.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/is-a-led-fast-enough-to-strobe-and-is-any-color-faster/

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 12:56:55 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 22, 2025, 11:23:48 pm

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 01:32:13 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on June 22, 2025, 03:36:12 pm

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 03:39:25 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 12:56:55 amNice vintage bike. You have access to a dynomometer that you are using to quantify your results? If not, please explain how you are measuring the torque as part of your write up. I helped a friend of mine build two different water brake dynos. One used a Clayton, the other a Stuska. I thought about making one for my bikes but it was a bigger project than I wanted to take on, plus the required room. At 6000RPM and less than 10HP, guessing a home made dyno would be very manageable.The use of a double spot oscilloscope while monitoring the current vs the points would seem to make much more sense. You may also be able to see the effects of your ferrite cylinder in the waveform produced.Still, start with what you have done so far.***Stupid site lagging...

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 07:58:26 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 22, 2025, 09:43:09 pmI think that in addition to the gas flow, the "circuit breaker" has the essential connection with regulating the pressure (and engine torque) depending on the moment (ignition advance) in which it generates the spark to ignite the fuel gas in the cylinder relative to the position of the piston that guides the rotation of the crankshaft and the speed / time required for ignition and deflagration to obtain maximum force from the vector decomposition at the right angle of the connecting rod (and without mechanically destructive detonations).

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 08:33:45 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 23, 2025, 03:39:25 am

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 10:16:36 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 08:33:45 am

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 10:19:19 am
content: -

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 10:23:18 am
content: -

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 11:17:48 am
content: I suspect that a ferrite cylinder (ring) subjected to a "lightning strike" in the cable on which it is mounted does not behave like a simple series inductance but like a magnetic "gyroscope" with less intuitive physical properties.Here I am thinking of the demonstration by Professor Walter Lewin at M.I.T. with the kinetic momentum accumulated in a bicycle wheel with a stabilizing gyroscopic effect of delaying the change in the position of the rotation axis.It is possible that a similar phenomenon may occur through the rotation of the magnetic field in the ferrite ring.No?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 01:12:57 pm
content: What are these parts that look to be connected across the breaker points?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 01:49:21 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 08:33:45 amFirst, thanks for the photos and explanation. While I would not say it is impossible to make any meaningful measurements/adjustments using the driving method, your certainly adding a lot of variables. Personally, I would start by using one setup. Make five runs and measure the variance. Then make one change and make five more runs. Go back to the original setup and make five more runs. See how things vary. No doubt 400-500us would effect the power output and you could measure a difference if that is true.I have made similar measurements driving my bikes as a poor man's sort of dyno. We can't measure steady state but can certainly get a feel for how things are responding. I instrument the bike with various sensors and record that data. I also have an advantage that the road surface is maintained and they have it instrumented as well. More data is a good thing. The throttle is full open or full closed, and I am not trying to manually read any instruments, so there is not a lot of human error.Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 11:17:48 amI think rather than entertaining what Walter Lewin has to say, think about your test setup.While I do have a fairly elaborate setups to simulate and test my ignition systems, for a quick demonstration of your claims of delay I'll use a simple homemade IGBT/FET driver to drive a standard GM car ignition coil. The plug wire is three feet of Accell Ferro-Spiral. It measure 500 ohms end to end. Spark plus is an Autolite 65. I will be using some TDK HF70 material.Scope channel 1 is the trigger signal from the Arb. Coil will fire on the falling edge. Channel 2 is the current through the coils primary. Channel 3 is the current through the spark plug wire. This is measured with a Pearson 410 wide-band current transformer.Scope time base is 10us per division. I measured the time from the trigger to the plug firing with and without the cable loaded with ferrite and measure no difference. This is what I would expect. However, if you feel you have stumbled onto some magical ferrite that would change this delay, measure yours and post the results.I think in this case though, you are over thinking your findings and trying to find something that explains it rather than improving your test setup.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 02:08:24 pm
content: Showing my own software that is used to log the data. You can see that I measure my weight with gear on, temperatures, humidity, air pressure then a lot of data off the engine and chassis.While that 200 HP number may seem a bit high, consider with my old fat ass riding it, it will go from 0 to 140MPH in under 5 seconds. This is actually slow compared to what the kids do today with their 600+ HP monsters!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 02:44:31 pm
content: In case you are considering that you have found a magic material, shown is a grab bag of random cores I have accumulated over the years of various materials. I have enabled persistence to to allow you to see the variance in the measurement (<10us). The discrete time steps are due to my PAL (yes a real 22V10 PAL) sampling the trigger. Still, no long 100s of us delay and suggested.Also shown zoomed out with all the cores shown. The current ramps up to a set point then the controller modulates it. So you do not see the ignition coil saturate.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 03:03:07 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 23, 2025, 01:12:57 pmThat is the very simple circuit for suppressing kick-back, namely canceling the spark produced by the first opening of the ignition control switch.If it is closed when the general contact is connected, its first opening will slowly charge the two electrolytic capacitors of approx. 70 microFarad parallel to a 10k resistor through a 1N4007 diode, thus resulting in the delayed command of the first spark long after TDC and without kick-back.At the second opening of the switch, the capacitors are already charged through the diode and the 200 Ohm resistor of the trigger of the transistorized ignition block (final switch a bipolar transistor BUX81 at 6.3V ... 7.2V supply voltage) and no longer have any effect on the switch command.The RC discharge time constant (10k, 70uF) is sized so as to cancel the first spark again after a time of approx. 2 seconds without rotation (pulses).Otherwise, being a 2-stroke engine, kick-back due to ignition advance when the piston has not yet passed TDC can be quite unpleasant.These engines can sometimes start backwards.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 03:44:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 23, 2025, 01:49:21 pmWith pleasure.I was referring to the possible magnetic saturation of the ferrite cylinder under the "lightning" in the ignition cable without resistivity, not to the saturation of the ignition coil (induction) and it is possible that a magnetic coupling (in your case) may appear between the ferrite ring (different model) and the Pearson 410 current transformer.In principle and theoretically, in sinusoidal alternating current, an inductance produces π/2 phase shift waves between the voltage and current in that inductance and vice versa in capacitors, where the current appears before the voltage.But here we do not have sinusoidal current but commutation pulses, about 20 per second at 1200 rpm.That is, a 90 degree delay (in π/2 radians) of the current with respect to the voltage.No?And then how much would the 90 degree delay of the current with respect to the voltage be at 20 Hz (pulses at idle)?And why doesn't the delay appear visible on the oscilloscope, according to theory?Something isn't "connecting".

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 05:14:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 23, 2025, 02:44:31 pmQuote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 03:44:30 pmI think a misunderstanding. My comment about the ignition coil not saturating and controlling it was to explain the disturbance in the current just prior to the ignition. Normally we would expect a linear increase in current until the knee where it begins to saturate and the current is only limited by the I^R losses. For these tests, I am limiting the current but could certainly allow higher values if needed.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 05:44:10 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 03:44:30 pmWell, they are all toroidal but lets try another experiment. Let's add a bag of TDK HF40 cores to our test cable. We would expect the current and voltage to be in sync with one another. Looking at these voltage directly can pose a bit of a problem but a few years back I designed and constructed a wideband high voltage probe that can easily handle these levels.LeCroy168, Note the addition of the high voltage probe on channel 4. The other three channels are the same as before. Notice that I turned up the current limit to the ignition coils primary. We are zoomed out so far, you can't really see much going on during the ignition region. But, you can also see that adding this additional ferrite had no effect on the delay.LeCroy169, zoomed into the ignition area at 200ns/div. We can see that the voltage did something at the time the current changed but there is not a lot of detail. The problem is these signals are very fast. Sub 10^-12 seconds stuff. I have higher bandwidth scopes that could provide a better picture but for the purpose of this discussion, we know that the voltage and current are tracking well under the 400-500us you claim.The surrounding fields are not effecting the current transformer.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 09:57:41 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 23, 2025, 05:44:10 pmSomething here in your lab simulation doesn't look like reality:The last oscillogram shows the spark arc extinguishing in about 2 divisions x 200 nanoseconds /division but in real conditions the spark must last 1 ... 2 milliseconds (not 400 nanoseconds) to ignite the fuel mixture in the engine.https://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/Ignition/burn%20time.htmlFrom 1 ... 2 milliseconds +/- 0,5 miliseconds (active spark time and ignition advance / delay values) and up to your 200 nanosecond analysis there are differences of several orders of magnitude in the values.Sorry!Without using any sophisticated and confusing metrological instruments, it is likely that during the delayed time of 400...500 microseconds (0,4...0,5 milliseconds) through the additional inductance of the ferrite cylinder, magnetic energy is accumulated (this produces the delay) which is then discharged into the spark plug in the form of a prolonged spark, with a notable attenuation of the disturbances emitted by the ignition cable.In other words,mounting a ferrite bed or ferrite cylinder on the ignition cable is beneficial provided that the delay caused to the initial ignition advance of approximately 0.5 milliseconds during the accumulation of magnetic energy in the toroidal ferrite is taken into account, which requires corrections.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 11:29:21 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 23, 2025, 09:57:41 pmWhat I have shown is the variance/delay from the trigger to the ignition point with/without various beads attached to the spark plug cable. This time is rather short as we are basically looking at the sampling of the trigger signal and rise time of the coil. Think of it as zooming into the area marked in red on your previous graph.There is nothing wrong with what you are showing. It is covered in many text books. Let's keep the same setup as the last but zoom way out to show more of the complete cycle. It seems you still feel the ferrite is having some effect so I show it zoomed out with all that same ferrite, then with it all removed. Notice, no change. This really should not come as a surprise.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 12:14:14 am
content: One thing to mention is that my lab simulation has the spark plug at ambient air pressure. Getting the plug to breakdown is not a problem and so I am running very low currents into the ignition coil.In my typical application, I am running up to 30psig of boost. I mentioned having to close the plug's gap at these high levels. The ignitions I use are aftermarket. One problem I have is at idle where the fuel tends to pool inside the compressor. The ignition can provide several ignition cycles for one compression cycle. It also provides enough energy to keep the plugs from fowling.Shown are two different plug being ran on my normal lab simulator (not what I have shown here). Note the damage to the insulator.While adding ferrite isn't going to do anything for you than, a high performance ignition system could, if it is needed. Not to suggest that an ignition will boost the performance of any ICE. I had a friend who drove for a team that was using nitro-methane. They use two magnetos. Talk about a high performance ignition.I hate to say it but ignition scammers are similar to the free energy cons. They all have their word salads and try to spin some crazy physics into it. The one thing I have not heard from ignition cons are how it ties to Tesla, healing crystals, religion...Don't be a victim.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 01:06:02 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 12:14:14 amMurphy said that an ounce of practice is worth a pound of theory.While the flame is triggered in the cylinder, the spark plug is in an ionized gas environment and the voltage on it remains only at about 1000 Volts, despite the 15000 ... 25000 Volts required to ignite the spark.If you have a single-cylinder engine, you can "live" experience the phenomenon of "taming" the engine's characteristics through the ferrite cylinder on the ignition cable.I used Toshiba ferrites from a monitor, something with an internal diameter of 8 mm, like in the photo posted.I expected delays, but not so long (hundreds of microseconds).I obtained an almost similar effect when replacing an NGK spark plug type BP7HS (P = Projected) with B7HS (Standard).On multi-cylinder engines or higher power engines, the differences probably become imperceptible.It remains for scientists to find an explanation, but practical engineers apply it.After all, even rubber is cut more easily and more beautifully with a wet knifeP.S.Your photo of the discharge outside the porcelain insulator is strange, as if the current prefers the longest path or the center electrode in the spark plug is missing.I was primarily interested in mitigating the disturbances produced by the ignition on the other electronic equipment on the motorcycle.For this reason, that 2200 microfarad electrolytic capacitor is also mounted above the dynamo brush switch (whose switching would be annoying without additional filtering).https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1066359(The delay varies randomly above a minimum value, sometimes exceeding 100 ms.)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 01:23:21 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 24, 2025, 01:06:02 amAs I have demonstrated, the ferrite does not change anything. The problem is you have no way to validate your claims. Worse, you state them as fact. For that, you need proof. The theory must be sound, backed by test data. You are missing both.When I worked in automotive, we were working on an HCCI system. If you are interested in taming an engine in the real world, look that one up.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 01:34:19 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 01:23:21 amhttps://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1066359”The delay varies randomly above a minimum value, sometimes exceeding 100 ms.”I didn't invent the plum tail.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 02:48:06 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 24, 2025, 01:06:02 amI mentioned Paschen's Law in my first post. This is the reason for the current to flow on the outside of the spark plug.Sorry I don't have access to the paper you mention but it looks like they are discussing computer core memory and the ferrite that was used for them. Why do you feel this applies to your ignition claims? Again, you will need to provide proof of your claims. This will mean instrumenting your setup and making measurements. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 10:30:16 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 02:48:06 amMaybe it would be more constructive to respect the (technical) truth and not laugh at each other, perceptions (and conclusions) can be different (or wrong), including those with a LeCroy oscilloscope (equipped).Hippocrates, considered the father of modern medicine, did not use a computed tomography scanner, but he cured his patients.And Freud, also considered the father of modern psychiatry (he cured his patients).I don't know if the effect was related to his religion (which you seem to be fighting) or if it's a coincidence.I also stated that I do not know the material specifications / properties of the ferrite ring mounted on one of my motorcycles, if it has hysteresis, memory and signal delay, but fortunately, the delay does not reach 100 milliseconds but only 500 microseconds (0.5 milliseconds), on this material, also ferrite.Delay compensated by the additional ignition advance that can be adjusted manually mechanically and not by reprogramming an Electronic Control Unit (ECU).In this way and technique, I am in control of my motorcycle and not others with their "ideas" and technology.The rest remains a matter of trust (faith or "religion") as you mentioned above, even disregarding crystals.Probably also the quartz ones, present as the "heart" of any modern digital electronic equipment.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 10:43:24 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 12:14:14 amHint: ”1:4 God saw that the light was good, and heseparatedthe light from the darkness.”It just separated (the already existing light from the darkness), it existed.”7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” ...”If instead of "waters" they had translated it as "fluids", would they have already known (for thousands of years) about the quantization in "sky" between "fluids" (and their properties and/or energies)?I choose to admire this knowledge, not laugh at it, even though there are enough naive people and impostors in this world.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 06:28:49 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on June 10, 2024, 09:13:05 pmI did a quick search just on YT and was surprised by the number of videos. They follow a standard theme. As you suggest, plus younger, single cylinder motorcycles (did find a couple of cars). They remove the plug cap and start their engines while drawing an arc. Some go for a ride. Seems to belong in the doggy technology area but maybe P1 will provide some much needed data. After all EEVBLOG isn't YT. I expect most members know what a scope is and how to use it. This is not something I have found in even one video.Quote from: P1 on June 24, 2025, 10:30:16 am

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 10:24:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 06:28:49 pm

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 01:47:36 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 24, 2025, 10:24:27 pmNo need for strawman, I wrote what I wrote. It's not up to me to prove your 400-500us delay claims. Ever hear of a timing light? Know how to use one? Too high tech? You would rather people just have faith and believe? Its not a good forum for that.***It may be too costly, so here is a home made timing light.https://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/timinglight.html

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 09:11:05 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 25, 2025, 01:47:36 amI usually add sugar to my coffee with a spoon,to taste, without carrying a pharmaceutical scale with me for that, although it would be a more precise metrology.Does it sound incredible?I usually measure with a micrometer, draw with chalk, cut with a chisel, what good is a stroboscope?I kept the mechanical breaker for the ignition system so that in the event of a failure of the ”infallible” electronics, I could quickly switch to classic ignition (points, capacitor, coil), even in the forest, by connecting 4 wires.Here, however, I warned the enthusiasts of "ferrite beads" on the ignition wire about the ignition advance lag that occurs simultaneously with the attenuation of radio interference,De gustibus et coloribus non disputandum.I frequently rely on the science of Soviet scientists Ajustov and Potrivenkov!(as translation: adjustment and fit)In addition, I also have a strobe with a xenon lamp, but its inverter requires 12V as power supply and I have 6V on this motorcycle, which does not even have a rotating graduated disk mounted on the crankshaft.I do not work at NASAAnd I don't even light a fire in the forest with a piezoelectric lighter, I use matches, more rustic and cool that way.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 12:23:44 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 25, 2025, 09:11:05 amYou use the timing light to prove that the specific Toshiba ferrite you scavenged from an old television produces a delay of 400-500us. The scope is the proper tool as I have shown. Riding the bike up and down the road and telling people your feeling about it, a waste of time. I can understand your obstinance as it would disprove your claims.Belongs in dodgy tech area with the free energy cons.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 01:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 25, 2025, 12:23:44 pmYou have the oscilloscope but you don't have the motorcycle (this one) and not the same ferrite cylinder (Toshiba).Furthermore, through the question in my first post I was looking for an answer-explanation of the delay phenomenon but you offer as a substitution a denial of it.Isn't there some discordant madness somewhere?(”Schizophrenia is a serious mental health condition that affects how people think, feel and behave. It may result in a mix of hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized thinking and behavior.”)

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 01:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 22, 2025, 02:55:51 pm

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 01:41:51 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 24, 2025, 01:23:21 amAre you sure that's the case?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 03:39:27 pm
content: can you put like a bunch of ferrite on there to see if the effect you think is happening is cumulative? The problem is the variance is small on a imprecise measurement which makes your data dubious.the effect of 1 ferrite bead is usually small even on sensitive equipment, its basically used to get things to barely not touch the 'limbo bar' to get a certification from a lab for the government to let you sell things. They are weak

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 04:23:01 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 25, 2025, 03:39:27 pmHe would need to find enough scrap televisions to salvage more of those magic Toshiba cores. Not just any core is going to get you that claimed 500us delay.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 04:48:48 pm
content: For the sake of argument it might put this thing to rest if he knew what the core material or property is so he can buy something similar from digikey. I doubt the experiment would cost more then $20I don't know what ferrite they put in televisions.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 04:59:00 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 25, 2025, 04:48:48 pmConsidering that OP can't make a simple time measurement, how do you expect they will characterize a ferrite core? They may not be able to afford $20.This is really more about faith, believe and trust.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 05:10:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 25, 2025, 04:23:01 pmGross mistake again, I posted amonitornottelevisions, but I still have (as a spare) a ferrite cylinder identical to the one mounted on the ignition cable (see picture).

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 05:13:13 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 22, 2025, 02:55:51 pmhttps://www.analog.com/en/resources/analog-dialogue/articles/ferrite-beads-demystified.html”Selecting the right ferrite bead for power applicationsrequires careful considerationnot only of the filter bandwidth, butalso of the impedance characteristics of the bead with respect to dc bias current.””...all of these parameters change significantly.”

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:11:24 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 25, 2025, 05:10:30 pmQuote from: P1 on June 25, 2025, 05:13:13 pmIt sounds like you were very careful in selecting your magical parts.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:19:40 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 25, 2025, 01:41:51 pmFor the parts I carefully selected, I have provided the data. I'm confident in my setup and equipment but feel free to ask any further questions about it. The reason you are seeing such a change is not because you have stumbled onto magical parts but rather your lack of any understanding/ability to make such a measurement.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 08:42:24 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 26, 2025, 01:19:40 amIt is not a choice but a (successful) experiment, where the effect I am interested in is the moment (delay) ofignition of the fuel mixturein an engine andnot the waveformof the electrical signalsimulated by youin which you claim and "prove" that your the ferrite ring has no effect (with the insinuation: let's throw away the ferrites because they are no different from wires).Toshiba's (ferrite) prestige versus your (oscilloscope) prestige?https://youtu.be/HaLMjVkKYMw?t=2176

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:12:23 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 08:42:24 amDo you feel that the ignition of the fuel mixture inside the engine is delayed vs having a plug at atmospheric pressure? Do you feel that only with these conditions that your ferrite will cause the 500us delay? Do you feel that the ignition of the fuel mixture is delayed from when the voltage across the spark plug reaches the peak voltage? Do you feel that the waveforms I have shown do not represent what happens on a real engine? The F/A mixture certainly does take some time to reach maximum pressure. As I mentioned, I run a maximum of 30 degree advance with gasoline.I've never thought of a scope or ferrites as being prestigious. Ferrites are just a part and scopes, a tool.First Walter Lewin and now Eric Bogatin? I don't understand the relevance of the video you linked to your claims.Typical video of the ferrite nut jobs.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:17:17 pm
content: Now if you are looking for prestigious ferrite beads, this one comes in some nice packaging and has a sticker on it to help improve the HP!! Educated by Youtube....

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 01:23:09 pm
content: Looks like there are several cons out there attempting to scam the public. The smart ones, like the OP are scavenging their ferrite rather than paying for the high performance racing parts. The attached screen shot came from the following video:

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 02:11:15 pm
content: Shown is an engine of one of my vintage bikes. Note the coils are just above the plugs with short length wires. Lots of silicone placed around the extenders. Spark plug boots cover most of the insulator and are coated with dielectric grease. Again, plug gaps are also closed to accommodate the higher pressures. Ignition is MSD (also shown).While there are no ferrites on the spark plug wires, there is a bit of electronics used to log data and control the bike. None of this is effected by the ignition noise. Modern wires are nice in that regard. As far as increased performance, I find packing more fuel/air into the engine works well.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 09:15:44 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 26, 2025, 01:12:23 pmThe waveform on the university professor's oscilloscope from studying the behavior of a ferrite filter (at low currents and voltages) is totally different from the waveform presented by you, through which you claim that ferrite has no effect (like simple wire).I don't feel the need to argue (contradict) with anyone here, but it is obvious that the spark discharge in the spark plug under conditions of triggered flame, high pressure and ionized gas deflagration is something completely different than a spark in the air. A spark that will not last even 1 ... 2 milliseconds as in the notorious diagram known to any simple auto mechanic / electrician.I repeat, this:

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 09:26:02 pm
content: Where the "Spark Burn Voltage Line" is in direct current, bias which also affects the inductance of the ferrite cylinder.Bonus:https://eu.mouser.com/c/passive-components/emi-filters-emi-suppression/ferrites/ferrite-cable-cores/?srsltid=AfmBOoq4ODkH2TJE7OelnFTjY8ZlGrFRtG92Rgn8G_wViXmIMrNEyt22

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 10:14:41 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 09:26:02 pmSo the DC current component would reduce the inductance of the ferrite cylinder, and consequently reduce its effect?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 10:30:30 pm
content: Very likely yes.Initially, the ferrite cylinder inductance acts as an LRC filter with very large L and R (spark plug) which produces the initial delay until the plasma state is triggered in the engine cylinder head, after which R between the spark plug electrodes decreases and the direct current appears which drastically reduces the ferrite cylinder inductance (depends on material and size).https://www.ngk.com/what-is-an-inductive-resistor

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 10:30:48 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 09:15:44 pmRather than wasting your time posting, look at the data I provided carefully. Maybe you missed a post or two...

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 10:46:11 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 26, 2025, 01:12:23 pmYour problem

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 10:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 10:46:11 pmhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/ferrite-bead-on-spark-plug-wire/msg5956861/#msg5956861Those waveforms sure do look similar.. Learn to read.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 11:09:22 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 26, 2025, 10:50:27 pmNo, the feature will look something like this:

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 11:10:24 pm
content: What are you blabbing about now?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 11:15:55 pm
content: My jig for test above atmosphere. In case it's not obvious, the voltage waveform is inverted from the text book. Ionization is about 370us in this case at 100PSI. Much shorter that what I demonstrated at ambient.The stuff you don't see in the YT scammer videos... Education by You Tube****I'm sure its obvious to those who understand engines, but 100 PSI is very low. The engine I show is setup for 8:1 CR with the turbocharger. The cranking pressure is between 180 and 185 PSI with the current camshaft setup.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 11:18:44 pm
content: Surely even you are smart enough to know it's blocked outside your country. Is it as irrelevant as your other video links?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 26, 2025, 11:23:27 pm
content: It's a good thing there's censorship in your country too.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 12:12:37 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 11:23:27 pmRather than gibberish, maybe post more details about your last graphs. I'm sure they have some meaning in your special world.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 02:39:37 am
content: I think unless you get more ferrite this conversation will burn outi think two people are wasting energy right nowat least it would be a moderately interesting experiment because its easy to put a ferrite on a wire and see if there is a trend.Also ,there is another low tech option, look at the spark, or try to measure the spark perhaps using a camera and opaque filters, with and without the ferrite bead. maybe if it does something you would be able to photograph a difference. its easy enough to try IMORunning it in a optical integrator of some sort would give a pretty clear answer too, to see if ferrite reduces the amount of arc light that is created. A simple bolometer should do the trick. I bought one a while back but it was broken unfortunately, its built like a ceramic trampoline. perhaps I should order another one (my intent was to study arc light and other flash sources).This will never end because its a sloppy mechanical system that is being measured very precisely, you will not convince anyone about ghosts you see in the noise floor IMO.Here is a tip for being a scientist:you have a test fixture, and something about it is interesting. The result is very small. The smart thing to do is to try to make the result bigger so its easier to study. Eventually you might even get something that has some kind of statistical confidence. You have a unique case where its easier to modify your experiment to increase detection then it is to try to interpret weak results or increase the measurement equipment performance. Showing aTRENDis a great way to do science. Getthree data points.Then at least you have a god damn line you can draw and even make half assed assumptions about parabolas.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 10:52:57 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 10, 2024, 11:00:41 amI tried to answer the subject and the first question in this topic, based on my practical, particular experience, about the effect of a certain type of ferrite cylinder (Toshiba) on the ignition cable of my favorite motorcycle.That is, since it was necessary to replace a partially clogged spark plug (NKG BPR6HS - with built-in resistor) I had no choice but to replace it with an NGK BP6HS spark plug (- without built-in resistor).As a result of the replacement, the rhythm of the electronic signal relay (flasher) became crazy, in the rhythm of the disturbances produced by the ignition.Consequently, I replaced the cable with the ignition plug with one with a built-in resistor (5 KOhm) and metallically shielded, but the chaotic operation of the electronic direction signal relay did not completely disappear, especially at low engine speeds.Then, I mounted a ferrite cylinder on the ignition cable and all the disturbances disappeared, but the engine became "soft" (insufficient ignition advance) at low speeds, from idle up.Thus, a new adjustment of the points by about + 3 degrees (experimental) advance was necessary and everything returned to normal.The equivalent of these +3 degrees is about 500 microseconds in idle mode, compensatedon this ferrite.and not any other.I did not set out to do a study of all types of ferrite rings(there are enough of them produced industrially) by testing with all types of oscilloscopes (although I have one too) on all types of motors.It's summer, the weather is nice and I want to enjoy my motorcycle as much as possible, but I was looking for an explanation from someone regarding this delay caused by the ferrite ring on the ignition of the gas in the engine at low revs.No one on this site offered me an explanation (just some denials and banter almost mocking) so in the end I found it myself.That's it.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:13:58 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 26, 2025, 11:15:55 pmWe, here, do not measure in PSI because there is an international system (MKS - meter, kilogram, second).And in two-stroke engines (2T or 2S) the geometric compression ratio differs from the effective compression ratio (dictated by the closing of the exhaust port).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:49:59 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 10:52:57 amAlmost mocking??You have shown no proof of your claims of added delay. What you have describe is the engine started to run like shit with all your cobbled up mess. Typical of the wannabe mechanic. You advanced the timing to try and get a little more out of the old engine. Rather then try and figure out why there was a loss in power, you come up with these stories of delay. All of your measurements of riding up and down the road have nothing to do with time. At best you may get some indication of how the engine is running.Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 11:13:58 amWhile the vast majority of the US population use imperial but from my experience, those of us who work in the technical sector use various units. The first HCCI engine that Honda developed was a 2-stroke motorcycle. Both have nothing to do with your problem.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 11:55:06 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 26, 2025, 11:09:22 pmAs a minimum, you should label the axis. Assuming you actually understand what is shown in the two graphs, it would be best if you explained them. If you just pulled them off of some internet sight as proof of the delay, say no more...

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 01:23:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 11:49:59 amYes they do!The Harley Davidson Hummer (125cc) was "inspired" (copied) from the DKW RT (125), not the other way around.Similar to the Yamaha YA-1 (not Honda).What came first, the chicken or the egg?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 02:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 01:23:31 pmI am guessing it ties in as you would like a professional restored bike that is running correctly. Looking at your workmanship and random mods, my guess is you would janky up someone's hard work, and you would be right back to a low performance engine and scratching your head.One thing to keep in mind as you advance the timing to try an compensate for the loss of power, at higher engine speeds under load, you may be risking detonation. Sound like you don't know where the timing is set. It's some sort of feel good process. Poor old bike survived this long. May not survive the wannabe mechanic.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 02:59:06 pm
content: The basics of timing:https://www.uti.edu/blog/automotive/ignition-timingOne thing I wonder about the ferrite and watching those idiots on YT, certainly pulling the cap off and pulling the wire away from the plug is increasing the voltage at the coil and placing a strain on it. Potentially damaging the part. As a child, I would pull back the plug cap from the spark plug to clear it if it fowled. Typical idiot kid, I didn't understand why this worked. The video below shows an old Rentz lighthouse spark plus that does just this.While I wouldn't think adding any sort of bead to the wire would cause the coil's secondary voltage to reach the danger zone. Typical secondary charge times are in the us range. But, I have not looked at it. Maybe P1 has damaged their coil during their experimenting. That would certainly explain a loss of power. Still it has nothing to do with the claimed 500us delay. I can totally believe they adjusted the plate to get that time to compensate for the loss, but there is a difference between that and suggesting that a ferrite causes a delay in the signal.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:01:51 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 02:11:40 pmNo, initially, the advance was adjusted with a comparator micrometer instead of the spark plug, but later the Americans invented E10 gasoline with ethyl alcohol in it, the one that all motorcyclists swear by.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:14:36 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 02:59:06 pmAnd your link is forbidden from being accessed through this area (it seems to be a military secret).I was hoping you knew this too.The induction coil didn't fail, it's a Czech one with transformer oil and a metal casing, not Chinese plastic.However, my suggestion would be that if you have a dyno stand available you could check the engine torque at fixed throttle, with and without a ferrite cylinder on the ignition wire.The story with the oscilloscope and waveforms does not seem relevant enough as an air simulator (spark in air).After which we can discuss with mutual presumptions.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:22:20 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 03:01:51 pmHere we can buy pump gasoline without ethanol for the older engines that can't compensate for it (chainsaws, lawn mowers...). If you wanted to pay for it, we can also buy gasoline with lead.I ran pure methanol for a while. Ethanol would have been a better fuel if I could have easily purchased it. Sure the BTUs/lb is lower. Consider that you were about double the AFR, so there were some gains. The big plus was I pack it in there with the compressor. And methanol was far more forgiving than the leaded gasoline at higher pressure. C16 spec fuel was good for about 30 PSI.Methanol required different seals and more maintenance. Getting enough into the engine was a bit of a problem as well. I switched back to gasoline.https://www.sunoco.com/fuel-facts/post/why-not-methanol

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:29:17 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 03:14:36 pmThe problem with the dyno and riding the bike, you can measure the engine performance but you can't tell what is going on inside the engine. If you want to measure the actual delay to prove that your ferrite exhibits this, you need to measure that directly, not indirectly.Lots of variables can effect the engines performance. You can attempt to compensate using the timing but that doesn't suggest that the ignition timing had change as a result of you adding your magic Toshiba TV scavenged bead. For this, you will need to step up your game and make some real measurements.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:38:10 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 03:22:20 pmMethanol is extremely toxic, it can also attack your optic nerve (if you inhale the gas, vapor or accidentally drink it).Light and simple 2-stroke engines need lubrication with oil dissolved in gasoline, not in alcohol (which also attracts water from condensation if the tank is metal).I don't like that at all.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 03:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 03:29:17 pmI repeat (for those who forget): a ferrite cylinder (I have 2) from a (professional) Toshibamonitor.They used them even on the high-voltage circuit that powered the color cathode ray tube (about 30 KV).That is, the anode voltage of the tube screen.This requires being able to measure (target) the flame in the engine (when and how it appears).Otherwise, between the percussion of an electric staple and the moment when the detonated projectile hits the target, it takes some time and some variables appear.Respectively, between the moment of production of the new spark (after the ferrite) in the spark plug, with a different shape than the usual one, and with burning flue gases,something else happens.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 03:38:10 pmGasoline is also toxic. You should not breath, handle with bare hands, drink.Of course we have Darwin awards. My first 2-strokes ran on a mix of castor oil, methanol and nitromethane. Makes for a decent fuel.Yes, methanol attracts water, attacks certain rubbers .... I would flush the fuel system after every use with gasoline.Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 03:48:40 pmNot really. You are claiming 500us. That will stick out when directly measured. Or as suggested by coppercone2, stack two on there then measure. Provides you with three data points.Most of my career was in automotive design. We were using a quartz window and laser to take high speed photos of the combustion chamber. That's been 30 years ago at least. All you need is a timing light and a tach to regulate the RPM to make your measurements. But you have made it pretty clear you have no such interest and would rather hold to your beliefs. I would however get some of those fancy racing ferrite with the prism stickers and gold paint. Like the audio nuts with their wooden capacitor covers, people love to believe.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 04:17:31 pmNo, becauseI already experienced a double-length ferrite cylinder(same Toshiba make and diameters) on another similar motorcycle (I have a small collection) which became a "moped" in response to traction, so I gave up and removed the ferrite. There I didn't need the suppression of disturbances and I did it out of pure curiosity (on a classic ignition - points, capacitor, induction coil).So it's not a surprise.But, this time, with the ferrites in the picture, I preferred to suppress the disturbances and not lose torque/power, at least at low speeds, and that's why I compensated from the advance.However, in 2-stroke engines, it is recommended to reduce the ignition advance at high speeds (it is usually fixed) due to the shortening of the combustion time as turbulence in the engine increases with speed.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:46:21 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 04:40:39 pmBut again you are describing a loss of power, rather than providing any data proving the claimed delay effects. You will not know if the loss of power was due the claimed delay or some other effect until you measure it.Reminds me of these people.Quotehttps://www.dhtrob.com/impressies/elna_inhout_en.php

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:49:46 pm
content: One thing that does stand out is that in other countries, they add the ferrite beads to gain HP. They never show adjusting the timing. They just install them, rev the motor, and go riding. You really need those gold ones with the prism decal. They are the hot ticket for high performance. Forget that old discarded TV stuff.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 04:54:27 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 04:46:21 pmIn both cases and on both motorcycles (single cylinder) the only variable was the introduction of a ferrite cylinder on the ignition wire, the effect being the same ("softening" the engine).How many coincidences could there be?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 05:07:07 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 04:49:46 pmIt is possible that those motorcycles, newer model, are equipped with CDI and variable advance "read" by the reluctor coil.It is known that the duration of the spark produced by the CDI(capacitive energy storage)is much shorter than the classic solution(inductive energy storage Kettering), in the CDI the new "coil" being a pulse transformer.It is possible that, on these motorcycles, the additional ferrite inductance extends the spark time and thus ensures easier starting and better combustion.This is precisely why spark plugs with (small) built-in inductance are manufactured, with the index "Z" at NGK.The impedance values ​​of the coils, respectively of the transformer, in the two systems also differ.The disadvantage of models with a reluctor coil "reader" is that below a certain speed the spark can no longer be produced due to the lack of the minimum speed of variation of the magnetic field at the "reader".On these models, the fixed ignition advance cannot be easily changed manually.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 08:40:56 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 04:54:27 pmYou could repeat the same test with 100 parts and 100 bikes and get the same results. Saying something is softening is not the same as measuring the actual claimed delay. Again, there would be no proof.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 08:42:08 pm
content: You and Chet should work together. Check out their last post:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/can-reactive-power-be-recycled-fast-enough-to-power-resistive-loads/msg5960833/#msg5960833

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 08:53:54 pm
content: Typical modern engineering, argue with people and write 2 text books instead of designing a stable experiment.. :'(I think its actually interesting to try to see the effect of pulse shaping on a discharge and possibly result on gas combustion.But it involves getting away from keyboard and making a repeatable experiment to actually get someone to consider the theory, instead of endless extrapolation based on a single data point.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 08:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 27, 2025, 08:53:54 pmI should feel fortunate then as over my career we have not yet reached that level.Even if they had posted the model/part number of the TV set, there may be a service manual that gives the details for the bead they used. Maybe then someone else could attempt to run an independent test. Oh well.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 09:07:30 pm
content: I think its just that people take for granted basic lab resources because there is a unrealistic expectation that science has gotten to a point where you can make a very advanced idea with only theory and experimental data (from different places).There is smart people behind these ideas but sometimes when you put them into practice you hit a major snag that drags the whole project down hill and possibly makes alot of theory useless when you discover some experimental variable that hides everything you wanted to determine... because someone had a very clear clean system in mind for some 'basic' technique that never got tested in that situation.But once in a while someone might score a big win on a 'clean' system that ends up not having any snags and then all the mangers and shit think that everything should work that way. science gambling. I think its something like randomly deciding to take a detour speeding through the woods. You might be able to drive down a gentle hill and through a meadow to the nearby road or get your car stuck in a ravine lol

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 09:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 27, 2025, 09:07:30 pmThat's right, Fleming discovered penicillin because he moldy some cheese in his lab.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 09:28:01 pm
content: and he had to do thousands or more repeatable experiments to get some where with itI think he was processing samples for a very long time

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2025, 10:06:47 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 08:40:56 pmSince others may have a CDI (capacitive discharge) ignition system where the static advance cannot be mechanically adjusted/corrected (as with breaker points), what would they use them for?But what about those that have TIS (Transistorized Ignition Systems) and where the secondary winding of the induction coil contains an integrated high-voltage rectifier?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 11:45:11 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 27, 2025, 08:40:56 pmEven BMW engineers would disagree with you, given what they added to the ignition wire (in the ignition principle diagram above).

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 12:57:50 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 27, 2025, 10:06:47 pmThat diode is to prevent the spark plug re-striking when the primary voltage is reapplied. The instant 14 volts is applied to the primary of a coil that typically has a 1:100 turns ratio the secondary will produce about 1400 volts. If the flame is already established, the plug gap will easily conduct this 1400 volts via the flame and this will discourage the coil from recharging. In older cars this wasn't an issue because the gap between the tip of the rotor button and the distributor cap electrode was too wide for the 1400 volts to jump.That diagram is unusual. The diode and dotted coil polarity shows positive being sent to the hot centre electrode of the plug. Normally it is driven negative to take advantage of thermionic emission.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 03:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 27, 2025, 09:07:30 pmWatch a few YT videos and your an expert. Dave stated that if you call yourself an engineer, you are one. I think the decline of education has more to do with it. Compound that with having a place to post, we get people like Chet.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 04:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 12:57:50 pmAre you sure you didn't make a mistake (again) but this time by an order of magnitude?Aren't thereover 14,000 Volts?This is because the breakdown voltage of dry air would be about 3000 V/mm (30,000 V/cm, )Faraday?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 07:09:52 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 28, 2025, 03:19:47 pmthey are making new engineering 'methods' that get away from basics like the scientific method (and 'trade' knowledge) and instead design methods from fully artificial things like business management, economics, investors and programming. This leads to a obsession with not spending a dollar that might be reinventing a wheel, avoiding experiments, avoiding the idea of it being a partial 'art' (that is, that the individual engineer gains practical skill from doing something that can be applied to the discipline)... mostly to get favor from some kind of non technical non skilled but powerful comptroller character in the organization you are in. And they always want to 'accelerate' education and the work some how, usually by skipping tons of steps and ignoring quality safeguards and general best practices. An example result might be a ton of experimental data performed with shady/dubious transmission lines that got installed by a carpenter because someone was too scared to say they don't really understand the concept of shields and needed a few weeks to just learn it (possibly by spending money on a consultant, competent employee or book) before doing a simple wiring job.Block diagram shows three lines between two blocks. Must be simple. Reality is it could be expensive and confusing (which it is). But the person implementing it thought about it from a programmers perspective where it was always easy in the past... so the amount of resources and time that got allotted to that was minimal, and the effect of incorrect implementation is not known, and people want to do things with the data. messy situation. Haha, I can't imagine what like amplifier designers go through trying to explain why it does not work because they can't get the feedback arrow to work correctly. Then upstream you know this kind of reasoning about simple block diagrams was used to justify low qualifications requirements and low pay for employees. Of course you can find a simple and easy to implement block diagram with like 50 blocks on it.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 09:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 12:57:50 pmDoes that mean the diode should be mounted backwards to suppress the very positive peak of the ignition trigger?(see diagram below, I repeat)

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 11:37:26 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 28, 2025, 09:22:28 pmThat diagram is drawn that way for convenience and familiarity. 99% of ignition coils deliver a negative going high voltage pulse. If you don't believe that, hold a scope probe near a plug wire and see for yourself.In every other distributorless ignition system both the diodeandthe coil secondary are reversed compared to that diagram. So the diode still conducts a negative going HV pulse but blocks the positive pulse when power is reapplied to the primary.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2025, 11:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 28, 2025, 04:05:06 pmNo.You have made the mistake because you don't know what you are talking about.As i have already stated, when power is applied to the coil primary (providing the phasing between primary and secondary is correct) there will appear a 1400 voltpositivepulse at the secondary, and when power is disconnected there will appear a 20kV or morenegativepulse at the secondary. The 1400 volt positive pulse is the one that needs to be blocked by the diode.I design and build ignition systems for a living. I have made just over twenty thousand of them.You haven't.I know what I am talking about.You don't.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:33:14 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 11:37:26 pmI would imagine many are using COP now but I really have no idea. My newer bike uses these.My older motorcycles all use wasted spark. The secondary is isolated from the chassis and primary. They drive the primary in one direction. The outputs attach to two plugs in series. One seeing a positive, the other a negative.The automotive coil I used for the experiments shown with ferrite is similar (floating secondary). Is there anyone actually driving these coils bidirectional? I always assumed they were like the bike ignitions.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:58:31 am
content: I have a feeling the discontinued Crane Hi-8 had a totem pole output that drove a coil rapidly both ways. But conventional ignitions are flyback of course, so firing polarity is only one direction. And wasted spark, yeah, one plug gets it reverse polarity.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:12:23 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 11:49:23 pmI have the feeling that you don't know what you're writing about when you claim that an ignition spark can be produced at1400Vin a spark plug at a gas compression ratio of approximately 10:1 (+/-) and that this pulse must be blocked with a diode.Moreover, you are also trying to cancel (ignore) that "dI/dt" factor from Faraday's law (the rate of change of current with respect to time).There is a small to large difference between an induction coil (magnetic energy storage) and a transformer (pulse transformer), including a constructive-architectural difference.Are you the one who doesn't know what you're talking about/doing?It's good that people buy/sell crap there.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:28:59 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 12:33:14 amYes, it's a bad solution for poor people (like you).Poor in spirit.The spark plug fed in reverse series with the other one will foul up after a while and that engine will run poorly.And as an experiment you ruined the "barley on geese" (you ruined ferrite bead on ignition on bipolar pulses and floating with respect to the table).With or without integrated diode (because you don't know what you have there).Hint: In the BMW ignition schematic diagram, the diode (6) in the drawing does not appear in the text (table) and the "Insulator Boot" (2) is unknown (is it a ferrite or something else?)(I repeat the picture)

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:10:16 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:12:23 amdepending on dwell and rpm, powering the coil happens well before the intended ignition point where the pressure isn't that high, even more so at low loads

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:18:57 am
content: And yes, sometimes, for a while (disposable products?) it would also work with a wasted spark (on 2 spark plugs reversed polarity out of 4) but with an integrated diode this time (and the ”inverted” diode but the polarity of the coil ends unspecified, normal or reverse).Surely the diode only blocks 1400VWith the advantage that if it breaks, then the continuity of the secondary winding can also be measured ohmmetrically.Otherwise no!

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:42:11 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on June 29, 2025, 10:10:16 amYes, but on a single-cylinder 2-stroke engine (my weakness) a large dwell angle is far from TDC and has nothing to ignite even at 1400V (700V because I have 6.3 - 7.2V on the power line).Similarly on a multi-cylinder engine where each spark plug has its own ignition circuit.No cost/quality reductions.The effect of the ferrite cylinder on the ignition wire (without rectifier diodes or double wasted sparks) remains under discussion.Respectively under these conditions and not under others.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:51:20 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:12:23 amThis is a classic straw man argument.I did not say the 1400 secondary volts produced at points closure or similar would be enough to produce a spark. I said it would beconductedthrough the ionised flame that would by then be within and surrounding the spark gap.Quote

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:02:59 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 12:57:50 pmWho is the "straw man"?(”Projection, as an ego defense mechanism, involves unconsciously attributing one's own unacceptable thoughts, feelings, or impulses to other people. This process helps individuals manage anxiety and protect their self-esteem by externalizing undesirable aspects of themselves.”)

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:06:31 am
content: Thank you for saving me the trouble of reposting what I already said to prove to others that I did not say what you claim I said.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:15:21 am
content: Don't mention it.With the observation thatthe secondary voltage(not the primary) is applied to the spark plug.Respectively the one delayed (or not) by the ferrite cylinder.To be or not to be(delayed by the ferrite cylinder),that is the question

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:23:18 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:28:59 amWhy?Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:28:59 amYou feel that the test has changed the beads properties? How? What is the cause of these bipolar pulses?Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:28:59 am6 font is different and diode is not aligned in drawing. Looks like someone hacked up the drawing is all. There are proper symbols for ferrite. I would assume the Germans know the difference between a boot and ferrite. You on the other hand seem confused. A result of YouTube education.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:37:38 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 11:23:18 amYou seem confused (and mocking anything you can't understand).Proof of this is the fact that you can't even number your "burst" of successive questions.However, by searching YouTube you could discover the difference between a bolt of lightning and a bolt of thunderBonus:

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:44:07 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 11:37:38 amYouTube educated explains why you can't answer such simple questions. Do they not have higher education in your country? Assuming they do, you just didn't meet the requirements? Felt you could become an expert by spending a few minutes on the internet?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:52:40 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 28, 2025, 11:49:23 pmThe best part about our internet educated nimrod, they liked the pretty picture but could not be bothered to read the text that went with it.https://bimmerprofs.com/ignition-coils-part-3/Looks like the author modified the drawing, not BMW.https://bimmerprofs.com/ignition-coils-episode-2/

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:07:08 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 11:44:07 amIf you have any higher education (in your country) you should know that the "hot wire" of an induction coil is connected to the magnetic core (internal mass) and implicitly the BMW drawing is correct.Otherwise it's not worth the effort to answer the questions of a "master" of your level.Sorry!But it is known (from school) that the earth (ground) has a negative electrical charge.What should the charge on the spark plug wire be?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:08:08 pm
content: P1, have a look at this drawing of a General Motors LS coil, on a Nippondenso sheet and stamped, signed and approved by GM Powertrain division, not just something someone on the internet pulled out of their bum. Note the diode polarity that allows negative out the HV terminal but blocks positive. If you still don't agree with that then there is no hope for you.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:18:31 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 12:07:08 pmNo problem. I wasn't expecting anything useful to come from you. Early on I assumed you came to troll the group and pollute the original thread. So far, I rate you doing a fair job entertaining me, which is why I continue to engage.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:31:06 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 29, 2025, 12:08:08 pmWell, I didn't agree with the Covid pandemic promoted by the internet, nor with online school, nor even with American vaccines (only 30% trusted and accepted the "free" vaccination offered by the government here).Some even died later, young, due to thrombosis caused by the "vaccine".That the GM ignition thinks that the polarity of the charges is reversed is not my problem (beliefs are free).But it is known (from school) that the earth (ground) has a negative electrical charge.What should the charge on the spark plug wire be?(replay)

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 12:41:45 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 11:52:40 amThe author of that page got most things right. But when he sees a 380V spike on the coil primary he assumes that there is going to be a 38kV spike on the secondary. This is not necessarily so. Even if the secondary is clamped to only several kV this primary spike will still occur. It is the primary leakage inductance causing this. The primary and secondary are not perfectly coupled, especially in traditional cylinder shaped coils.And then he goes on to put an RC snubber across the coil primary. This does clean up the waveform, but also wastes energy. A much better solution is a single 100nF or so capacitor directly across the switching transistor, sized so the spark occurs at the peak of the half sine voltage across the cap. This will ensure the energy in the leakage inductance that has been diverted into the capacitor is now sent back into the coil and will contribute to the spark current immediately following spark breakdown.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:03:57 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 29, 2025, 12:41:45 pmShowing a cut away of a bad coil from one of my bikes. You can see how they are constructed.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/motorcycle-woes/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:24:49 pm
content: Delphi patent on the use of diodes in the secondary. Sorry, not a lot of pretty pictures for P1.https://patents.google.com/patent/US6666196B2/en

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:52:43 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 29, 2025, 12:41:45 pm100 nF?I kept the value of 0.22 microFarad (220 nF) for resonance with the original induction coil and to be able to switch (even in the forest or in the mountains) to the classic Kettering ignition version, if the infallible electronics fail.It is enough that in parallel with the switching transistor there is an antiparallel diode to protect the transistor from reverse overvoltages, a diode that also suppresses half of the free oscillations that occur when the breaker points are opened classically.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:53:11 pm
content: So, as well as GM, Delphi also doesn't know which way to put diodes apparently.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 01:57:31 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 01:52:43 pmI once put an anti parallel diode across a set of breaker points and it lengthened the spark duration slightly. That was a long time ago. I should try it again and measure the results.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 02:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 01:24:49 pmYes, great great American patented invention/The line transformers in cathode ray tube televisions already had "split diodes" in them.The plum tail has been rediscovered.But with a negative charge towards the ground (mass).To see ...

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 02:12:22 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 29, 2025, 01:53:11 pmIf they can power the spark plugs in series with a floating coil and one of the spark plugs is powered backwards and still works (for a short time), what does it matter?You can also try reversing the polarity (and the direction of metal flow) when welding in direct current.Or why not (electrostatic) painting or spark plugs?Coming back, what about the ferrite ring on the high voltage wire?What about the ferrite core on the line transformers?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 04:14:31 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 02:04:12 pmDidn't your YouTube education teach you that the CRT used DC?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 07:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 04:14:31 pmYes, but with minus on the cathode and plus on the anode, not the other way around like GM, Delphi or Chevrolet "Spark" spark plugs with 3 or 4 cylinders (with wasted spark or wasted time).In addition, that direct current is modulated on the cathode (there are 3 cathodes in a color CRT) to obtain variable luminance. And color.But your honor, at an electronic engineering college, did you forget the way or did you never go there?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 08:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 07:44:43 pmElectrons will move more easily away from the CRT's hot filament to a colder surface. It's the same in a plug. The engine block is much colder than the insulated center electrode. Rather than holding the center electrode at ground and raising the engine blocks voltage, we drive the center electrode negative. I'm guessing you failed your high school physics as well as this is pretty basic stuff.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 08:30:32 pm
content: you can actually try to balance this out by choosing different work functions for the materials on each electrode to compensate for heat difference. I don't know by how much.There is other factors to consider for choosing arc polarity too, i.e. which electrode is losing more material, what is getting hot, etcA low temperature good work function material would have gigantic engineering applications

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 08:45:22 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 29, 2025, 08:30:32 pmAre you referring to the wear with the wasted spark? I am thinking the cars used precious metal plugs to work around it. My bikes use nickel on both electrodes. Wear has never been a concern.https://www.ngk.com/ngk-4548-cr9ek-multi-ground-spark-plug

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 08:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 29, 2025, 08:30:32 pmA bit of trivia, I tune the AFR on my bikes by the plug's heat line.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:06:07 pm
content: I mean that you can adjust the work function of the material of both electrodes so that they have a similar value or preferred values for arc generation when at different temperatures.I.e. if one is alot colder, adding some thorium (or friends) in there would make it spark as good as the hotter one at the polarity that is normally a problem because of temperature

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:20:53 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 08:45:22 pmMy 2002 4-cylinder pickup (1) has wasted spark ignition, which I did not even realize until I changed the ignition coils trying to diagnose one cylinder not firing. Each pair of pistons is wired in series with the isolated high voltage secondary of one of the two ignition coils, meaning the spark plugs fire on both the compression and exhaust strokes. This simplifies the system for lower cost, as no distributor is required, and also only half of the number of ignition circuits and transformers are needed.The spark plugs are advertised as "double" meaning both electrodes of each spark plug are plated, so like "double platinum", or double whatever.(1) Vortec 2200 L43 I think. It it is not much of an engine, but I use the pickup for commuting.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:31:29 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 29, 2025, 09:06:07 pmAssuming you are referring to wasted spark, are you suggesting custom plugs for each cylinder? Seems your trying to address a problem that was solved many years ago and with high costs and no gains. My 07 already had COP. As Circlotron suggests, I doubt they are very common anymore.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 08:12:30 pmOnly if the "cathode" contains barium oxide as the thermionic emitter, there is also an acceleration grid and you also produce a vacuum in the engine. Maybe you invent a new type of spark plug and the vacuum engine.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on June 29, 2025, 09:20:53 pmMy 94 street bike is an in-line four, uses 4X carburetors and has wasted spark. My 2008 is injected and uses COP.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:40:11 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:36:24 pmAs I suggested, its the basics.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:44:47 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:36:24 pmOh the ignorance of the young [and smug].A CRT cathode doesn'tcontainBarium oxide, it is coated with it, well actually a cocktail of oxides. A cathode doesn't need to be coated with anything, a directly heated vacuum tube can have a pure Tungsten cathode or Thorated Tungsten cathode, or indeed any other metal that combines high enough work function and melting point.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:45:38 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 08:45:22 pmExcept for the ceramic insulator when metal ions migrate through it.To your "cathode" powered with minus instead of plus

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 09:58:54 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on June 29, 2025, 09:44:47 pmAgreed, it is coated with it, but what about the engine vacuum?And about the main topic (the ferrite cylinder) or ferrite bead, are we still discussing it or are we "overthinking it"?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:11:33 pm
content: Here's a couple of sets out of two of my in-line 4s

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:17:45 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:58:54 pmI'm still waiting on you to learn how to make a measurement, knowing that's never going to happen. I'm surprised you have not yet mentioned Feynman. We are about due for a new source.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:18:23 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 09:31:29 pmI don't know about engines at all, but I am just saying that its a engineering option for that kind of situation. When you are thinking about arcs it is something to keep in mind about electrodesThere are things that you can't really change, but work function of a arc electrode is not one of themMuch more interesting if you can reduce or eliminate the heater in a vacuum tube. I think it was being worked on by alot of people but when transistors began to really take over, that avenue of research was not really worth funding anymore.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:23:05 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 10:11:33 pmThe thermal figure is not appropriate or your engine is not working properly: the side (ground) electrode should show a color change with a demarcation in the middle.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:35:36 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on June 29, 2025, 10:18:23 pmRelax!This guy doesn't even know how to fix spark plugs, even though he's been working on engines his whole (previous) life.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 11:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 10:23:05 pmThermal figure? Working properly? Fixing spark plugs?You can't really be that stupid. These are not the little kid toy you are playing with.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 12:22:03 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:58:54 pmA fluorescent tube has a heated cathode at each end and manages to pass electrons through mercury vapour. Vacuum is not required.And a neon tube can do the same and doesn't even have heated or coated cathodes. Just plain metal.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 12:24:29 am
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 10:35:36 pmI am just saying that what I write on this topic is related to physics related to the electronics and discharge of a arc between two surfaces and possibly the effect on flame behavior without speculating on the possible effects it can have on engine performance. I like studying arcs and fire I don't really care about engines. I think civilization is nuts for not going 100% all into batteries and motors research. For some reason gasoline cars feel like driving an accordion to me now, I like feel them stretch or something.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:47:17 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on June 30, 2025, 12:22:03 amIndeed. A home use UHP projector lamp runs a short arc discharge through mercury vapor at a pressure of 200 bar - that's 3000 psi, with Tungsten electrodes just short of melting point! Running (after HV striking) voltage is around 70V. A Xenon Cinema projector lamp, again with Tungsten electrodes, runs at similar pressure and voltage. No need for a vacuum, or even atmospheric pressure, for current flow to take place.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 11:34:37 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 29, 2025, 11:58:24 pmGoagăl trans-late (Google), I normally speak another language, but this "smart" program translated "fix" instead of "read" (spark plugs).But this is off topic (ferrite bead on spark plug wire).Conversely, from English to Romanian translate "margo de ferită" from "ferrite bead"

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 01:21:31 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 30, 2025, 11:34:37 amAnd what has YouTube and your other internet education taught you about reading spark plugs?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 03:21:56 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 30, 2025, 01:21:31 pmYeah, they taught me that if you search through a trash bin (of information) called the internet, sometimes you can still find something real and useful (if you have good filters and discernment).For example, spark plugs and engine tuning can be read without an oscilloscope and without youhttps://www.championautoparts.com/Parts-Matter/automotive-repair-and-maintenance/how-to-read-spark-plugs.htmlor:http://www.braigasen.com/howtoread.htm

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 04:20:20 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 30, 2025, 03:21:56 pmEven with my lowered expectations of your abilities and knowledge, I was hoping you would find something a little better than grandpa's how to read a plug. Oh well..I think if you want to troll the group you will need to up your skills. It's getting rather boring. At least buy a fancy racing ferrite and show the performance gains....

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 04:30:22 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 30, 2025, 03:21:56 pmThat Champion spark plug (reading) guide sheet was included in Haynes manuals (UK diy car repair manuals) for decades, the only colour page in the entire manual. It took about 3 car upgrades before my resources finally allowed me to service a car whose engine had nice light tan plug noses!P.S. It's possible that US cars, with their big, gas guzzling, low compression engines never showed the same characteristics back then (maybe always sooty?). I don't know, it was common knowledge as a way of checking engine wear and mixture here anyway.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 06:20:14 pm
content: The Booster Plug will solve all your problems....

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:45:54 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on June 30, 2025, 04:20:20 pmWow!You also have more communist (group) instincts than I expected.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 08:53:49 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on June 30, 2025, 04:30:22 pmThe effect of mounting a "ferrite bead" on the ignition wire was discussed.I experimentally found, on my motorcycle, that the radio frequency preturbations disappear (without a calculation with Fourier series development) and that there is a noticeable delay in the ignition trigger, which I compensated for with the fixed advance of about 3 degrees (for this type of ferrite cylinder).I looked for an explanation on the forum but I only received nonsense, claims to oscillograms and other nonsense comparisons.But:”How Ferrite Beads work and their differentiation from Inductors Ferrite beads’ fundamental operation is like that of inductors: when there is a change in current, a changing magnetic field is generated in the core of the bead, which induces a voltage across the bead in the opposite direction of the original current, and thus, impedes it.The greater the rate of change of the original current, the greater the induced voltage, resulting in a greater impedance to the current flow.”https://abracon.com/uploads/resources/Ferrite-Beads-White-Paper.pdf

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 11:32:37 am
content: A thought that's just occurred to me. Ferrite beads work, at least partly by being lossy, dissipating the unwanted energy as heat. It might just be worth checking for excessive temperature rise, possibly masked by the heat from the engine.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 12:16:10 pm
content: Yes, the cylindrical ferrite gets (reasonably) hot during operation, you can feel it in your hand, but it doesn't burn. That is, below 50*C.Anyway, if the energy of a spark reaches 20 mJ and there are 6000 per minute (100 per second) in a single-cylinder 2-stroke engine ...

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 09:45:15 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 01, 2025, 12:16:10 pm20mJ * 100 = 2J per second or 2W. Of course, if the ferrite is absorbing 100%, I doubt the engine is able to run, unless there is additional free energy involved.Maybe it gets warm to the touch because it is next to a hot engine.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 10:07:06 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 30, 2025, 08:53:49 pmYou made some dubious claims in a forum full of very knowledgable people, you were asked for supporting evidence and rather than provide it you threw a strop that a 3 year old would be embarrassed about. Half of this thread is posts from you having a melt down. Why not step back and start again with a more mature and measured attitude?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 11:27:35 pm
content: Quote from: mikerj on July 01, 2025, 10:07:06 pmYes, I also posted (above) some photos of the physical assembly that probably seem dubious to some, I offered my practical findings.I cannot determine with an oscilloscope the time lag between the breaker opening and the maximum gas pressure obtained under the new waveform of the spark signal modified by the inductance of the ferrite cylinder mounted on the ignition wire.However, it is known about the inductive behavior of ferrite at low frequencies or direct current pulse and its resistive behavior at high frequencies (hundreds of MHz).Adding a series inductance is equivalent to adding a parallel capacitor, respectivelya delayof the ignition voltage with respect to the current.Agreed?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 12:24:52 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 01, 2025, 09:45:15 pmYes, the ferrite can heat up from being close to a hot engine, from sunlight (it's summer, 35*C in the shade) or maybe from the energy of high-frequency harmonics that it drastically attenuates.But it doesn't absorb all the ignition energy because the engine works well (a pleasure to play with it)The ignition coil absorbs about 3.5A at about 7.2V, which means about 25W static (points closed) and about half at a Dwell angle of 50%, which means 12-13W.It also has its efficiency, but 2W (2J = 2.000 mJ per second) as spark energy is enough.https://www.mwignitions.com/pg_data_sheets.phpOf course, for suckers, they can produce and sell ignition systems that consume (for nothing) hundreds of Amps.Money to come out

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 01:40:49 am
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 12:24:52 amWhile I was hoping you would step up and correct me on my engine tuning based on the plugs I showed, that's fine. It is an interesting topic but sounds like a outside your current level....Your TV set scavenged cores must really be magic if you feel they are getting to warm from drastically absorbing any high frequency harmonics. Just dumb and as usual, no data to back up your claims. But I do like a good troll and I would say this one is stupid enough to run a quick test with.Ignition is an MSD PowerSports MC-4. Ignition wires are 8.5mm MSD Super Conductors. Also using their boots. Plugs and gaps are typical for my setup. This setup will put out a lot more than 20mJ per event and I limit the RPM to 10,000. Here is a link if interested:https://www.mpsracing.com/products/msd/ig02a.aspMy office is fairly clean of RF outside of the wi-fi and BLE running. Looking at the spectrum, most of the noise is below 1GHz and the peak is around 260MHz. I selected some Steward 28 and HF cores to also drastically absorb those harmonics. I tried to pick something roughly the same mechanical size. This should be a much worse case than Jack and the magic beanstalk.Brymen K-type were slid between the ferrite and case to make good contact. *** If it was not clear, one ferrite was placed on each coil. Again, wasted spark system ***Starting the test at 9:00. T1 measured 30.9C and T2 30.8C. I let the system run at 10k RPM for 15 minutes. After T1 measured 30.3C and T2 30.0. Why did it cool? Magic? No, I had to handle the parts to put the thing together and it was just settling back to room temp.Again, no surprise to me but maybe you can find a Walter Lewin MIT video that supports your claims.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 11:03:00 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 02, 2025, 01:40:49 amMiracle!Your superconductors in wires operate above 0 degrees Kelvin (+273)And again (diabolical perseverance)you use a coil with a floating secondary(without ground contact on one end), that is,with a capacitive load on both ends until the normal spark and the "wasted spark" are ignited.Don't your synapses get hot?Mine are starting to hurt.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 12:20:35 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 11:03:00 amDo you feel that changes this changes the amount of "energy of high-frequency harmonics that it drastically attenuates"? If so, explain why.While you may feel my continued use of the wasted spark components as diabolical, it's just what I have on-hand. I see no difference in the context of your claims of 500us delays and heating ferrite. I can ground one lead if it will make you feel better but it will have no effect on the outcome.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 12:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on June 29, 2025, 09:45:38 pmMore of grandpa's how to read a plug:QuoteTaken from:https://pages.championpowersports.eu/assets/Uploads/Spark-plug-trouble-tracer.pdfIf you like videos:

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 12:56:25 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 02, 2025, 12:20:35 pmIf you claim to be certified as a prophet and know the results before you verify them experimentally, what can I say?Look, I propose a similar pneumatic experiment: blow air into a "T" fitting (wasted spark), mount a choke on one of the two outlets and measure the pressure, delay and heating of the choke on itYouTube: ”Put me up, put me down.Put my feedback on the ground. ...Ground problems!

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 01:19:18 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 12:56:25 pmThere is hardly anything spiritual, rather it's just ignition basics. I tend to know the result before hand because my professional background is EE and it should be obvious that conducting experiments with ignition components is nothing new to me.I did contact the admins to have the thread moved to the dodgy area where readers would have a heads up that your posts are total BS before wasting too much time. For now, I will continue to call out your naive ideas of time, absorption heating and corona stains for what they are.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 01:33:01 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 12:56:25 pmWalter Lewin would be proud. You belong at MIT.I won't attempt to comment on your natural ability to translate how an ignition system works into garden hoses.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 01:33:15 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 02, 2025, 01:19:18 pmYou mean you didn't like my answer with YouTube attachment?Typical of communists (they don't accept a different perception/opinion/truth) and complain to the "party leadership"Quid pro qvo.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 01:48:26 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 01:33:15 pmYou will need to find another way to troll the group. It's not a good site to discuss politics or push any political agendas you may have. I suggest reading the rules.That said, I do not believe in free energy or the BS you are spouting. There is nothing political about it. You could certainly provide data that backs your claims. We could then discuss why there is such a discrepancy between your claims and the data I have shown.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 02:03:30 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 02, 2025, 12:20:35 pmI have already explained it to you but you already know the result in advance.The ferrite cylinder reacts strongly inductively in series on the load consisting of the "parasitic" capacitance of the spark plug and the wire, before the spark is triggered and the current is notable as its value.The back-EMF voltage will oppose the increase in the voltage value leading to a delay in reaching the threshold for initiating the discharge in the spark plug.Everything in direct current in the first milliseconds or tenths of a millisecond, not in alternating current.A spark takes 1-2 milliseconds to be viable for ignition.After the spark is triggered, the increase in current leads to a drastic decrease in the initial impedance of the ferrite.Provided that the source (induction coil) has one end grounded (not floating on a possible insulation resistance of another spark plug in a "wasted spark" configuration).Do you agree with this?

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 03:28:03 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 02:03:30 pmI see you learned a new word, "parasitic". Unless you are needing validation to feel better about yourself, it doesn't matter. I'll let the data stand on it's own, something you have failed at. What's important is how you feel about it. That's really the value you bring to the forum. Read Chet's long dribbles in the dodgy area about free energy if you want an example on how you can improve your presentation skills.What parasitic capacitance did you measure? What inductance is your magic TV set ferrite? Show your math how you derived the 500us.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 04:44:01 pm
content: I understand that making actual measurements goes against the magical woo woo mind set but I'll take a stab at it. First, measuring a 100pF and a 33pF capacitor. These of course are not standards but meter and caps seem to agree. Next I measure from spark plug to spark plug inside my test jig.Assume the ferrite is being operated in some small signal workable region, and we treat it as a lump circuit, what sort of inductance is that magic core needing to be to net a 500uS delay?Quote

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 02, 2025, 03:28:03 pmYou "measure" (stupidly) at 10 KHz and 1V something that happens in direct current and over 10000V, just to troll the site.It's not worth wasting time with your technical stupidity.Try to get the secret recipe from Pepsi Cola and then maybe we can talkI'll stop here.Bye!

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2025, 09:03:03 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pmthanks

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 12:34:44 am
content: Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pm

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 11:06:01 am
content: Bonus:”Example of coil winding specs,From a common High Energy Ignition (HEI) Coil -Primary resistance 0.4 ΩPrimary inductance 3.5 mHSecondary resistance 7.8 KΩSecondary inductance 23.7 H”http://www.ozfalcon.com.au/index.php?/topic/8923-ignition-coil-theory-of-operation-tech-article/

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 03:43:58 pm
content: Surprise, the prodigal son returns. I assume after some additional youtube and internet education, they got so excited and needed to express their new found knowledge as conclusive proof of their claims.Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pmKeep in mind that there were two plugs in series and the plugs tested have a larger body. Then there was the accuracy of the meter and setup. But you seem to be most concerned with the 10kHz test frequency. To measure at higher frequencies, I would normally use a Vector Network Analyzer (VNA). Let's just see what effects it has.Shown is an NGK CR9EK spark plug from one of my bike. This plug has two ground straps, but more important, the body is much smaller. Measuring as before using the BK, we measure roughly 13.4pF.A brass nut was soldered to an SMA along with a strap. VNA was calibrated over a range of 1M to 200MHz. At 1MHz, we measure 13.1pF At 200MHz it drops to about 6pF.To me this all seems reasonable.Quote from: P1 on July 03, 2025, 11:06:01 amSo what? Did this come as a big shock to you and you felt that it would finally be proof of all your gibberish? To be clear, it does not. You've dug yourself into a hole. Leaving was the smartest thing you posted so far but like any good troll, you couldn't let it go.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 05:52:37 pm
content: I repeated this measurement, calibrating from 300k to 300MHz. There appears to be something going on at 250MHz but it really doesn't have much of an effect on the measured capacitance. Obviously, eventually the spark plug will become inductive.QuoteAssuming 50pf, what does the magic TV set ferrite need to increase the inductance to achieve a change of 500us?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:38:32 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 03, 2025, 05:52:37 pm50 pF (F= capital letter, Faraday)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:47:05 pm
content: I don't normally call out typos but it seems this is very important to you so:Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pmK = Kelvin. The correct nomenclature is kHz.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:48:43 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 03, 2025, 11:06:01 amAgain, not correct.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:49:16 pm
content: And mHzWhere M = Maxwell

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 09:56:28 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 03, 2025, 09:49:16 pmmHz and MHz are both correct but do have different meanings. Hams would often write me about some problem they are having and upon investigating, they will use 140m for their frequency. While correct, they don't understand that is 0.14Hz and not 140MHz. Humans are typically smart enough that it doesn't need to be explained but my software assumes you have a clue.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2025, 10:15:16 pm
content: At 50 pF, for rise time from 10% to 90% =~440 microseconds, R = ~ 4 MOhmCurious, right?And I neglect the fact that 1 kG ≠ 1 Kg(i.e. kiloGauss)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 12:47:29 am
content: Quote from: P1 on July 03, 2025, 10:15:16 pmAssuming your magical ferrite is adding resistance, where is that 4Meg coming from in the real world?Previously you wrote:Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 02:03:30 pmInductance and resistance are not the same. Assume the ferrite is being operated in some small signal workable region, and we treat it as a lump circuit, what sort of inductance is that magic core needing to add a 440uS delay?Of course, feel free to measure your magical ferrite and post the results. After, you can calculate and post the delays for your part.Delphi Technologies, Inc. Patent 6453733Quotehttps://patents.justia.com/patent/6453733

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 12:50:35 am
content: Of course, you had the right idea to stop wasting your time. You dug a pretty deep hole.Quote from: P1 on July 02, 2025, 08:39:31 pm

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 10:56:51 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 12:47:29 amQuote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 12:47:29 amThese 5-10 pF (picoFarad) would be parasitic capacitances on Delphi spark plugs.My spark plug also has a metal shield over the plug-connector.Would the (parasitic) capacitance be greater or less than the one patented by Delphi Inc., by the weight of your science, measured in kG (kiloGauss)?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 11:28:45 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 12:47:29 amDo you actually read the patent you're posting as a link?You're making a fool of yourself.”For example, if the resistance R=100 Mohm (and, therefore, the maximum current which can be drained from the 5 kV voltage source is equal to 5 kV/100 Mohm=0.05 mA), the time constant for a 12 pF capacitance typically represented by the spark plug SP plus the spark plug wire SPW plus the harness H is: 100 Mohms*12 pF=1.2 msec. This time represents only a small fraction of the cranking cycle ...”

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 01:46:33 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 04, 2025, 11:28:45 amThe patent presents a detection system which uses an external power supply and network in parallel with the standard ignition coil. The network you reference is part of that detection circuit. It has no influence on the timing of the engine.The following is from the MSD Powersports manual:QuoteThere are a lot of YT videos on ignition delay or latency.QuoteThe metallization is not grounded but I would expect it to increase the capacitance by some amount small amount. You claim adding the ferrite creates an additional 500us that is added to the ignition delay.The following videos show how to increase the capacitance:

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:15:23 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 01:46:33 pmWow!The initial ignition advance needs to be increased by 4° (for me by 3°, about 500 microseconds).Coincidence, miracle or are we reinventing the wheel?That "metallization" on the spark plug connector is connected to ground, elastically, on its hexagon (look at the slot in the sheet metal with the final perforation so it doesn't crack).And it is an electro-magnetic screen (sheet metal), not "metallization".I don't use cheap and poor quality "Chinese materials" such as metallization on plastic instead of chrome metal reflector, not even on headlightsAnd no plastic that will become opaque instead of diffuser glass, it's an old-fashioned motorcycle, not a state-of-the-art plastic one

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:23:26 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 04, 2025, 02:15:23 pmI don't think so. You are just commenting on things you do not understand is all. The MC-4 is about as far away as you can get from the old cobbled up mess you are playing with. The manuals are available on-line if you would like to learn more about how it works and how to set it up.No matter though. Say the ignition has a fixed delay of 500us. You claim you add the magic ferrite and the timing changes 500us. That's now 1ms total delay. Show that measurement. Of course you are already seeing what it would require to make that much of a change.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:33:10 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 02:23:26 pmNo!Compared to the initial fixed advance (approx. 25°),after mounting the ferrite cylinder on the ignition wire it was necessary to compensate for the delay by advancing it by 3°With the clarification that to avoid a disturbing kick-back of the starter pedal at such a fixed advance, there is also a circuit (pictured) that suppresses the first spark from the breaker in favor of the following ones (at which the crankshaft rotation speed has increased enough to not take it backwards - it is a 2-stroke engine, a light one).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:42:09 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 04, 2025, 02:33:10 pmCompensating for a loss of power does not prove your magical ferrite caused a 500us delay. You need to measure it to prove it.#16http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/faq_ignition_wires.htm#14

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 02:59:17 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 02:42:09 pmI repeat,I have no way to measure, at the new asymptotic waveform due to the inductive reactance of the ferrite on the wire,the time delayin which the spark trigger threshold is reached,for the maximum pressure of the ignited gases in the engine.Instead, I can measure at the breaker, in degrees, the rotation of the plate towards the advance.I can also measure this with a comparator "clock" instead of a spark plug and with the geometric calculation of the correspondence of hundredths of mm - equivalent degrees.The fact is that this notable delay appears, it must be compensated, but its value depends a lot on the materials (high magnetic permeability in ferrite and low internal electrical conductivity) and the configuration (parasitic capacitances), respectively on 2 more variables, variables that I don't intend to study now (instead of enjoying the motorcycle).

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 03:53:04 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 04, 2025, 02:59:17 pmSo no data but plenty of word salad.I'll stop asking.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2025, 04:04:06 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 03:53:04 pmSorry, I don't sell cables, nor am I interested in explanations provided to customers for their (sometimes) poor functioning.http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/faq_ignition_wires.htm#14However,I warned ferrite bead on ignition cable enthusiasts about the ignition delay producedby suppressing radio frequency interference (the purpose of the action).The good part is that now I know from you that others have thought about this too, but by inserting ferrite powder into the ignition cables (Magnecor), but they didn't think that these could modify the ignition advance curve written in the ECU memory (where it exists).”CDI ignitions create sparksthat are compressed (and intensified) intoshorter durationand are specifically designed to produce the extra spark energy needed by race and modified street engines that will reach a higher RPM than standard production engines, and use fuels more difficult to fire than pump gasoline (petrol).Most CDI ignitions incorporate multi-spark circuits to enable the engine to run smoother under 3,000 RPM.”(In Romanian: ”Decât mult și fără rost, mai bine puțin și prost”)

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 09:55:25 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 04, 2025, 03:53:04 pmHowever, correlating the information, you have some data: by mounting a ferrite cylinder on the ignition wire (it depends a lot on the magnetic permeability of the ferrite), some energy is accumulated in a rotating magnetic field around the wire and this implicitly reduces the real ignition advance compared to that commanded by the breaker (or other type of trigger sensor).In my practical experience, there were about 3° (about 400 .... 500 microseconds delay at idle 1200 rpm), with much easier starting.What happens at high speeds (racing engines) I don't know, but it is possible that the ferrite saturates at frequent pulses (its own hysteresis?) and its inductance and delay effect decrease.Also interesting is the demonstration (totally counter-intuitive) of Professor Walter Lewin from M.I.T. by which he demonstrated that the accumulation of rotating (kinetic) energy in a bicycle wheel (as an example) delays its fall until the accumulated energy is dissipated (gyroscopic effect).And then I asked myself the question whether a rotating magnetic field (in ferrite) accumulated around a wire would not have a similar effect?https://youtu.be/XPUuF_dECVI?t=2157

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 12:41:18 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 05, 2025, 09:55:25 amThis magnetic field rotating around the wire is the direction the force is pointing, not an actual movement.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 07:32:44 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on July 05, 2025, 12:41:18 pmIt may be so or it may be that we don't know much.The TM01 (Transversal Magnetic 01) propagation mode appears in the microwave domain (not the case here), where the magnetic field is perpendicular to the direction of propagation and the electric field has a component along the direction of propagation.But this in a circular waveguide.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 08:08:58 pm
content: is this the reincarnation of Chet the word salad machine?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 08:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on July 05, 2025, 08:08:58 pmWho is Chet?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2025, 08:38:17 pm
content: TE modes never actually go awayif you made it the size of the grand canyon it would behave like a wave guide should but at much lower frequency. Same for things like FFT, its always 'works' even at 0.0000001Hzhttps://compasstech.com/products/transmission-line-methods/low-frequency-rectangular-waveguide/If you look at navy design magazines you will see some really interesting stuff that relates to 'big' things acting like waveguides. you can actually put a 4th order differential equation on the cover of those lol

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2025, 01:00:34 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on July 05, 2025, 08:38:17 pmIt seems you're right, propagation modes don't disappear.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 11:24:32 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on June 29, 2025, 09:20:53 pmReturning to the topic in the topic: ferrite bead (or cylinder ring) on ​​the ignition wire, I tested with several sizes (see attached photo), the optimal one (for me) being the one in the middle, with the necessary ignition advance correction.As for the lost spark ignition solution (reversing the polarity of the ignition current at one of the spark plugs with a floating secondary coil), not only would a double voltage be needed to ignite the spark at both serial spark plugs (risk of insulation breakdown), i.e. cost savings with reduced reliability.To measure what's happening there I would need a sacrificial engine with a pressure sensor in it and an oscilloscope with 3 traces (engine pressure sensor, breaker, possibly spark plug voltage curve).

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 11:39:00 am
content: Quote from: P1 on July 11, 2025, 11:24:32 amno it wouldn't, the wasted spark is at low pressure thus low voltage

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 12:05:28 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on July 11, 2025, 11:39:00 amYes, but with the permanent reversal of the direction of the current at one of the serial spark plugs.Incidentally, on my gas boiler, if I reverse the plug in the socket (neutral instead of phase) the flame detector in ionized gas stops working and the boiler stops in emergency mode (no gas).Although there is gasHowever, on classic induction coils (Kettering) there are terminals clearly marked with "1" (breaker -) and "15" (power +).Why, if they can be reversed?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 01:05:24 pm
content: Quote from: P1 on July 11, 2025, 11:24:32 amAs langwadt has said, the cylinder that sparks near the top of the exhaust stroke has very little pressure so not very much voltage is needed to jump the gap. It is true that the cylinder that always gets the positive voltage fed to the hot centre electrode needs more voltage than the one that gets negative, and that along with any insulation issue might have been a concern a hundred years ago, but insulating materials are very much improved nowadays, and sufficient coil voltage is not an issue now either.

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:29:22 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on July 11, 2025, 01:05:24 pmIs there even a P0300 (misfire) provided in the ECU detection program?(Friends know why)

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 02:57:13 pm
content: Why do you ask?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 07:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on July 11, 2025, 02:57:13 pmI ask (rhetorically) because others, less optimistic about the new technology, have also predicted a flashing signal when something like this is detected.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2025, 11:45:19 pm
content: A flashing signal??? Is there something lost in the translation?

author: P1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2025, 02:37:48 pm
content: Quote from: Circlotron on July 11, 2025, 11:45:19 pmYes: A flashingcheck engine lightsignal ...