Tek TDS1002 Value (2015) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: BAM5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 03:44:25 pm
content: Hi there EEVBlog Forum Denizens!I'm looking to buy an Oscilloscope and there's a local listing for a Tek TDS1002 which I can get for $165.I'm new to the test equipment buying scene so my question to you folks is, is it worth it?I saw that it had 2.5Kpts of memory which seems like it's really really really small.Is it super important to have 1Mpt recording depth?Would it be possible to offset this con by hooking the scope up to my computer and have the computer record it? Is this even possible?Also, if I do decide to purchase this what can I do to quickly test it when I see it? The post says all self start up tests pass. and there's an image of the test signal working on CH.1Here's the spec sheet for the devicehttp://www.upc.edu/sct/documents_equipament/d_109_id-533.pdfLooking to use it with analog and digital stuff, just a general purpose scope. Just getting into this stuff seriously.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 04:44:51 pm
content: Long memory is definitely handy. If you aren't strapped for cash I'd recommend to get a 4 channel Rigol 1000Z series.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:11:06 pm
content: My short answer is, don't bother. They're scarcely usuful. Keep saving for something more modern.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:21:24 pm
content: $165? Hardly worth that..I'd rather get a 2000 series analog for that price.

author: BAM5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:28:57 pm
content: Thanks for the replies thus far!I was thinking since it was a prestigious name brand it might be worth it, but it would appear not! What price would you guys say is wort it? 75? 50? A buck?Also, I've heard of rigol, but not of their level of quality. Do they make a decent scope?Thanks guys!

author: dom0
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:42:01 pm
content: It's a low-end DSO from the end of the nineties, basically worthless compared to anything more recent. 165 $ is way too much. Maybe 20 $ for the sake of it...Rigol makes great value for money scopes.

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 06:47:35 pm
content: Quote from: BAM5 on April 28, 2015, 06:28:57 pmYes. Take a look atDave's review of the Rigol DS1054Z, which is available new for under $400.There is also a long thread about this DSOhere. The first post has links to most of Dave's blogs featuring the scope.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 07:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: BAM5 on April 28, 2015, 06:28:57 pmIf it works fine, you need an oscilloscope and the prospects of getting one are pretty slim (and you don't live in the US, which has a huge number of offers for used test gear compared to other countries) I would say $50 to $75 is not a bad offer. The Tektronix brand name tends to increase the prices to ridiculous values and even a used analog oscilloscope goes much higher than $165.If you can wait, the suggestion to save some more and get a more powerful oscilloscope is absolutely great. After all, $165 and $400 (the price of a brand spanking new DS1054Z with full warranty and 100% fully functional) may not be prohibitive in certain cases.I wouldn't particularly recommend getting an older analog oscilloscope - these usually have been used for a long time and the possibility of failures is pretty high. Not to mention the portability of a digital scope is very handy.Quote from: BAM5 on April 28, 2015, 06:28:57 pmAs others have pointed out, Rigol has excellent oscilloscopes. I did a quick search on eBay but could not find a reasonably priced used DS1052E or DS1102E oscilloscope (very strange).

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 08:11:54 pm
content: Really, a fair market value would probably be $100. It's a scope, it works, it's not great.I would put it slightly above the earliest Rigols, which had comparable performance, and even worse menus!Modern Rigols are superb, being teamed with HP/Agilent/Keysight's wave capture ASICs. They manufacture Keysight's entry level scopes (so you only pay for branding and support on those).Tim

author: BAM5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 09:18:29 pm
content: Quote from: dom0 on April 28, 2015, 06:42:01 pmThanks for the info dom0! I'm glad I posted here before buying it, I could've had a Gob level huge mistake.Quote from: rolycat on April 28, 2015, 06:47:35 pm"Huge thumbs up!" "Get this "... Welp, that makes the decision easy. I'll have to look at this scope and really consider buying it. I was amazed at all the capabilities it has!I was a little bummed about the GS/s splitting between the probes. That "low end" Tek TDS1002 had GS/s on each channel :CQuote from: rsjsouza on April 28, 2015, 07:46:00 pmThanks for the info rsjsouza, I knew that certain brand names elevate price (Usually because they're reputable for their product's high quality), but I wasn't aware that old analog scopes go for that high! That's amazing!I think I will be looking for a different scope and I am seriously considering the DS1054Z with all the positive mentions everyone (Even Dave!) is throwing out there. It looks like a really handy scope!I wonder if there are any other good oscilloscopes out there that I should consider for the $100 - $500 range? Or is it just the DS1054 is so ahead of the competition that I should just go with that?Quote from: T3sl4co1l on April 28, 2015, 08:11:54 pmThanks Tim! I figured it would be worth something, I just didn't realize it wasn't as much as I figured. Knowing that my figuring skills arn't yet tuned to the oscilloscope market I posted here, and I'm glad I did! An ASIC is a... Analog Signal Integrated Circuit? Analog Signal Interface (chip/card)?I'd like to thank you guys for chiming in with your extremely helpful posts!

author: rolycat
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 09:25:58 pm
content: Quote from: BAM5 on April 28, 2015, 09:18:29 pmApplication-Specific Integrated Circuit. A custom chip, in other words.

author: BAM5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 10:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: rolycat on April 28, 2015, 09:25:58 pmAh gotcha! So they share exclusive proprietary hardware!I have a question about DSOs in general though...Is it common for a vendor of a DSO to intentionally limit the scope's functionality via the software for no other reason than to enable them on an exact hardware clone with a higher price? Like, I read from theabove threadthat there is a hack to enable SPI, I2C, etc bus reading and 100MHz functionality on the 50MHz model... Why the hell would they limit that?! Your programmers already made the better version of the firmware, why would you have them make a neutered version?! It literally costs them nothing to just have all the models with the same functionality (except for potential evil profit).Enabling their scopes to their full potential would just boost the hell out of their reputation for a good quality product! Not to mention that it would boost their sales too!

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 10:59:00 pm
content: I would disagree with most (all?) people on here and say that it IS worth $165 (USD) today.But the real question is if this is the right scope for your needs.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 11:45:00 pm
content: There might be components that don't meet spec during testing, so rather than throwing away perfectly good assemblies, they can be derated, and the resulting product will be just as reliable and accurate as a full model, less the bandwidth and sample rate; but can be sold at a modest discount.Most of the time, it's probably just for marketing reasons, and the assemblies are identical.Assemblies can also be made intentionally with sub-spec parts (like a 300MS/s instead of a 600MS/s ADC), to save bill-of-materials cost directly.Such models nonetheless might be overclocked to the regular model (because the manufacturers, in turn, do much the same thing with their products), but in that case you run more risk of problems, because there may well be good reasons why the manufacturer selected their parts for that speed class, and all that. The lower spec parts may generate crappy numbers (or outright gibberish) at high speed, or are okay at room temperature but fail at high temperatures, or dissipate too much power; and the lower clock speed suggests the opportunity to save a few cents on the heatsink in the reduced version, potentially exacerbating the heat problem.Not all of these possibilities may be in play, but they're all options to the product engineer, and things to be aware of if you're looking to push them.Tim

author: BAM5
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 01:25:58 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on April 28, 2015, 11:45:00 pmThanks for the info Tim. From what I've been reading on the forums it sounds like the 50MHz Scope has the same exact capabilities as the 100MHz scope and just uses a programatically triggered switch in the circuit to allow for better performance. Just plain uncoolAlso sounds like you can unlock the bus monitoring interface in the firmware and there's no extra hardware needed for it. So they're intentionally blocking functions that are built into the scopes firmware for greed and profit. Also uncool

author: mwsoft
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 10:46:15 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on April 28, 2015, 10:59:00 pmWell, I just sold my old trusty TDS2014 (4x100mhz with color screen) for almost $500And it was cheap, it was sold after 2 days being up on auction site.Some people just want simple and reliable workhorse. Can I trust my new DS1054Z will be still working in 10+ years? Yeah not really...On Tek, everything was just 1-2 button pushes away. On Rigol, everything is deeper in menus, some things are glitchy, acceleration algorithm for the encoders is a joke etc.. Somtimes it just pisses you off, when you just want to look at some signal. On the other hand, debugging digital stuff with 2,5K memory TEK is also frustrating (but not impossible). Well - you can't have it both ways...Anyway - these simple TEKs still have their place, and are still very usefull for real beginners, for schools, for production testing, for filed service etc.You can just trust them, that what you see on the screen is really there. Can't really say that for Rigol (when you lightly whack DS1054Z with your hand, all waveforms just jump all over the screen... you will never see something like that on Teks...)

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 11:03:36 pm
content: As much as I like to rag on Tek scopes, if you are a beginner, $165 is not a bad price. Even though the specs have been eclipsed, you still have to pay 3x as much to get those.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 11:39:33 pm
content: To add to others' comments.Until I started using eevblog about eight months ago, I lived in my own time warp with a TDS2024B for about eight years as my only DSO, with same old 2.5k "deep" memory. I developed a _lot_ of stuff with it, including some pretty darned successful products. Yes, the lack of deep memory is its biggest drawback, but you work around it. How do you think we managed before today's multi mega point depth memory scopes existed?It's not just about having the test gear, it's how you use it.But would I want to go back to using the TDS2024B? No, but I keep it for posterity, it's earned me a few quid, but boy did I wince when I shelled out £1,800 for it all those years ago.