Brazillian Antenna Scam - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 10:42:20 pm
content: Well, probably not a scam, some people are just this delusional about their ideas.Obviously I'm on the first plane to Brazil, I'm gonna be RICH!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 11:06:32 pm
content: LOL. Well, I don't know for sure, but this just looks like the old uncle scam. The guy you never knew existed has willed you a fortune, but you just need to pay some administrative fees first to get it. Many variants. This one looks creative, but rather exactly the same.Now if it's not one of those scams, the guy should definitely learn how not to make his funding campaign look like one.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 11:13:36 pm
content: But Dave, think of all the office space you can buy in a few years with $30 million - with only a $70k investment!

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 11:27:51 pm
content: It makes no sense, for a single project they could probably rent the required equipment for far less than $70k. The Scam/ Nonsense Ratio is extremely high on this one.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 11:28:05 pm
content: Yeah, energy consumption by antennas is something else. Ideally they consume all the energy supplied, that's kind of the point.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2019, 11:31:08 pm
content: Yup, new variation on the same old scam. You get 10's of millions (of what - he doesn't mention a currency - maybe it's 70 million stones, or grains of sand), but first you need to send 10's of thousands to handle the processign and paperwork involved.This one's as old as the hills, just an interesting more personally targeted premise.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 12:57:20 am
content: A good overunity antenna"more stable" , does not burst into oscillation

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 01:30:17 am
content: Should I correspond with him and try and extract technical details?

author: mengfei
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 01:35:06 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2019, 01:30:17 amYes! you should & lets see how it goesScamming the scammer lol

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 01:36:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2019, 01:30:17 amYes, could be fun and waste some of his time. I try to do that with all the NBN and ATO scam calls I get.

author: george.b
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 01:43:43 am
content: I'm lost somewhere between curious, amused and ashamed.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 02:17:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 24, 2019, 01:30:17 amOf course!

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 02:26:30 am
content: Wondering what sort of additional equipment is needed at this point in the project?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 02:35:54 am
content: Troll'la'la'la...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 02:37:21 am
content: Quote from: Kean on October 24, 2019, 01:36:41 amI get a ton of cold calls from these financial services companies. I like to convince them that I'm THE David Jones who owns the store

author: Gregg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 05:08:30 am
content: Dave,This would be a good one to turn around by telling him that you are the premier electronics engineer of Australia and have all of the equipment necessary to evaluate and improve antennas and would be happy to help him out for only $200 per hour plus 10% of future profits. The per hour rate to be paid monthly, in advance, of course!

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2019, 05:52:42 am
content: For the sake of argument, let's pretend he has invented a truly clever and innovative improvement in antenna technology for cell phones, and furthermore, let's assume he knows enough about all of the other practical constraints in this area that his design can truly work not only in theory, but in practice, as well. I know, that's a stretch of the imagination...He clearly has no capital, as evidenced by the fact that he needs to ask strangers to pitch in 70,000 (I don't know the units; I'll assume it's something within an order of magnitude or so of a Euro or US Dollar) for test equipment, and he's promising a rate of return many orders of magnitude in excess of what a bank would charge for a business loan, which tells me that he can't convince any banker of the worth of his project. Furthermore, he knows in advance that this test equipment will allow him to take his idea worth 4 million and turn it into an idea worth 100 million?That makes no sense to me at all, but I'll suspend disbelief a bit further and assume he's absolutely right, and he knows in advance how much the testing can improve his idea, even though he doesn't have the wherewithal to perform the testing at the present time, so he can't have seen the test results yet.My question is, how is he financing the intellectual property attorneys to property protect his idea worth 100 million? IP attorneys don't come cheap. I would expect the cost of obtaining the patent(s) alone would be at least as high as the cost of that test equipment, but the cost of obtaining such a patent is only the beginning. He had better have a healthy reserve of capital if he expects to defend the patent in court. The phone manufacturers have armies of well-paid patent attorneys, and they know the game well.He also must be careful as he markets this idea to the potential customers that he takes all the proper legal precautions to prevent them from stealing his idea, while allowing them to see enough of his technology so that they can understand why they would want to pay millions for the right to use his idea.Without good patent protection, there is precious little to prevent a mega phone corporation from simply copying his innovative antenna design and paying him nothing. If he complains and sues them, they'll drag it out in court until he runs out of funds, which apparently won't take long.The only way a phone manufacturer is going to pay millions for an idea, even a great idea, is if it gives them an advantage over their competition, meaning it must be something their competition can't copy easily. For something as obvious as an antenna, that means it needs enforceable legal protection -- it can't be just a simple trade secret, because it's too easy to analyze an antenna's geometry and copy it.Just to be clear here, I'm confident he doesn't have an antenna innovation worth millions. I'm just saying that if he did, he would need a lot more than test equipment to collect any money for his idea.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2019, 05:01:58 am
content: Dont you think developing an antenna for 20 years in a row is a bit of a stretch?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 26, 2019, 05:31:42 am
content: He hasn't replied

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2019, 06:36:53 am
content: I have seen some forum dedicated to trolling scammers.If you want them to reply you need to look like an absolute idiot and pretend they will have their money if only they help you overcome your irrational hurdles.Scammers will actually go to great lengths for a promise of $70k but they need this dangling carrot

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2019, 02:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 26, 2019, 05:31:42 am

author: mengfei
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 01:20:40 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 26, 2019, 05:31:42 amWait for itttttt...

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 01:27:04 am
content: Hi,I have a heard of a 'Brazillian Wax'.If you are not sure, Google itI would not volunteer for the 'Brazillian Antenna Treatment'.Jay_Diddy_B

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 02:54:26 am
content: While all you were blowing this off I invested and I've already cotten my first dividend of 15 millions. I need to raze the import fees but don't have it right now. If someone willing to put in Earnest monies of 5 millions I will spilt the fool amount with them.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 28, 2019, 02:53:25 pm
content: Quote from: hermit on October 28, 2019, 02:54:26 amPyramid scam!

author: CCitizenTO
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2019, 06:50:45 pm
content: Quote from: magic on October 26, 2019, 06:36:53 amYou're thinking of 419eater.comPrimarily devoted to scambaiting and wasting time of scammers. It's called 419 because that's the fraud section of the Nigerian criminal code.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 03:01:02 am
content: He replied!Surprisingly detailed for a scammer

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 03:06:37 am
content: He may be just misguided, not a scammer. There are things like fractal antennas that sometimes give marginal increase in performance for the same physical footprint. There are many designs, some are patented.It is also likely that his measuring technique is not correct. Especially given the claimed range of frequencies.From a scammer point of view it is much easier to pretend to be a windows support.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 05:33:26 am
content: Yes,yes"The equipment used us expensive and complex" , but "I do not have an oscilloscope or a signal generator".I am still "using frequencies between 700MHz and 47GHz". I am farting into the antenna.Edit: some member of thus forum might be having fun playing a game.

author: vsmith
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 07:45:39 am
content: To state something pretty obvious, that range of frequencies, or rather wavelengths, covers antenna technology markedly different at either end of the spectrum. Antenna gain is dependent on (among other things) frequency selectivity over a narrow range. In fact it is a huge challenge to make antennae that can operate with any gain across an octave band of frequencies, much less across the many octaves as he describes. And the behavior of electromagnetic energy at very short wave lengths such as at the 47 Ghz end, requires quasi optical techniques that would be totally ineffective at 700Mhz. Now he may be describing an invention based on a principle that works equally well over any small range of frequencies anywhere in that larger range, rather than covering the whole range. But even so, physics is physics. I like Bud's thought....maybe it is a prank being played just to get us all discussing it, theres just enough engineering lingo sprinkled around there to make you wonder...

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 01:43:19 pm
content: He speaks of antennas made of copper, but then he seems to claim he improved them by using a metal, an alloy, that was of three, then 12, "elements". I was first thinking could an antenna's directionality or beamshape be formed partially with different "elements" or alloys for different parts of it? But I don't even think that is the claim. I think it's an alloy for the entire antenna. I don't see how that would be a useful parameter to help make an antenna have more gain.He does seem to know terminology and use it to help the case. Keep playing - insert another quarter for another message.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 01:56:48 pm
content: How would one " create a mixture of 12 elements" to make an alloy. On the stove in the kitchen? And then use a hummer , tin snips and files to make a cell phone antenna. Sounds credible.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 01, 2019, 09:03:26 pm
content: He knows his test gear at least:https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000002103:epsg:pro-pn-8565E/portable-spectrum-analyzer-9-khz-to-50-ghz?&cc=CA&lc=engAlthough I'm not sure what is being used to generate the signal, the tracking gen goes to 2.9GHz.

author: Jay_Diddy_B
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 10:42:31 pm
content: Hi group,Just pointing out that 5% change in antenna gain is 0.2dBI am sure you get more variation than this depending on how you hold the phone.A good question would be 'How does this impact battery life?'5% change in transmitter efficiency would have very little impact on battery life.Regards,Jay_Diddy_B

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2019, 11:51:24 pm
content: 47 GHz! That's something!

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2019, 07:35:59 am
content: is he a nigerian on the run in brazil?

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2019, 10:32:39 pm
content: A Nigerian may be better than a Brazilian....