Hameg combiscope HM407 HM507 (Analog and digital scope) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 01:12:50 pm
content: Hi,I like to consider to buy used one of these 2 scopes:1) Hameg HM4072) Hameg HM507but I have not find any video or screenshot on internet.If someone have one of these 2 scopes, can please send me some screeshots of the internal calibration signal at 1 Khz (in analogue and digital mode) ?Please help !!

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 02:26:10 pm
content: Well, both these scopes are quite dated, large heavy and they have only 100MSa/s ADCs. Even the funny TDS220 from 1996 has 1GSa/s and is compact.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 04:45:41 pm
content: It is too long explain why I need these scope, but however I don't have money to buy 2 scopes (one analogue and one digital).I don't have take a decision , for the moment I like only see some screenshots (square wave) and after I will take a decision.For my porpuorse and my preference I need one analogue and one digital scope but my budget is very low (only used for 200-250 Euro no more).If someone have these scopes please post some screenshot in analogue and digital mode.

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 04:56:50 pm
content: Buy a "decent" crap digital scope like the rigol or the owon and live happy

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 05:06:25 pm
content: No, I can't I use it for audio many people suggest me to use analog scope for audio, and apart this:1) Owon: have noise problem and is not good for audio.2) Rigol: too expensive and the cheap models are not good for audio. (I don't have money to buy a DS2072 my budget is 200-250 Euro).I don't have space to purchase a tektronix analog scope and apart this analoge scope is not good at low frequency ... and many other factors.For this reason I need a combiscope (analogue and digital scope all in one).If someone can do some screenshot of square wave of HM407 HM507 please post.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 08:19:22 pm
content: I have no screenshots but a friend of mine has a nice Hameg collection including two Hameg combiscobes. They are very good. He demonstrated me one of those. Nice sharp trace, accurate and low noise. I can ask which model that was and if it is one of those if he can make a screenshot.This concept was very good. It died because it is cheaper to make DSOs (for the Chinacrap fanboys, I will not go in to discussion about that, the topic starter whants such a scope and clearly states he does not want a cheap DSO)I think it was the 507 :http://www.hameg.com/131.0.html

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 08:37:23 pm
content: Hi PA4TIM,Thank you for your response !!!!!!!!!!!!!!If your friend have one Hameg combiscope please try if you can get some screeshot (square wave in analog and digital mode) if possible.The 507 is the model that I'am interested but also 407 can be done.I watiing for your reply ....

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 09:00:22 pm
content: Just asked him, he has the 150 MHz version so pictures are not usefull.. But he knows both scopes (i think he knows all Hamegs) He told me the 507 is the better choise. The 407 isd the older version of the 50 MHz 507. But both are good. If the price is not the problem choose the 507.By the way, a picture will be rather useless because you do not state a frequency, nor the quality of the generator, termination, cable quality etc. I can make a picture on one of my scopes from a squarewave so bad you think the scope is a waist of money or so good you think, I want one too.A usable test is feeding it in a perfect 50 Ohm environment with a very fast step/pulse and low frequency (50-100 kHz is good). The puls must have a Tr that is much faster as the scope and a well known amplitude. Pulse duration must be long enough. At least a few times longer as the ritetime of the scope. For instance for a 50 MHz scope a 1ns puls that stays about a 5 or 10 ns high. But in that case all you know is bandwith and pulseresponse. But why bother, the specs Hameg gives are realistic, not marketing crap.In a topic someone asked what the problem with his scope (or generator ? ) was. Placed pictures. Turned out his set up was wrong on all fronts so there was nothing wrong with both instruments. If he had made that picture for you,. you would get a wrong impression.And it will not garantee you that the scope you buy will be in the same shape. It can be better or worse.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 09:29:22 pm
content: Hi PA4TIM,Thank you for all your supportI ask one favour if you can:If your friend have the 150 Mhz model I ask the favor if you can ask him to do these 3 screenshot:1) Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in analogue mode.2) Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in digital mode.3) Saved and "loadel" with digital storage of Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in analogue mode.Can you plase do me this favour ?

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 10:56:46 pm
content: Hello luca1000,would you help pictures from a combiscope PM3392A from Fluke?Best Regardsegonotto

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 07:13:20 am
content: Hello Engonotto,Yes can be good, can you please send me these 3 screenshot:1) Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in analogue mode.2) Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in digital mode.3) Saved and "loadel" with digital storage of Standard calibration (1 khz signal) in analogue mode.I wating for your response ....

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2013, 10:39:30 pm
content: The pictures from the 150MHz HamegHM1507002 is 1kHz analoog,HM1507006 is digitaalHM1507014 is stored.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 10:31:38 am
content: Hi PA4TIM,Thank you for your screenshot, your information seem confirm the issue.This is not read "digital" scope because on "digital mode" I don't see the vertical lines on square wave as I see normally with a digital scope.I suppose this issue depend by CRT screen and there is no way to see this part.The only solution to see a "complete" square wave is buy a digital scope.Someone affirm that this particular is not important, but for me is not a good reason and this is a compromise (If on paper I see a square wave on scope I want see a suqare wave and not only the orizzontal lines)

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 10:44:32 am
content: I was think another ipotetical solution:Don't buy the combiscope but the HM404 or HM504 (analog scope) and connect to PC with serial port and use the software included.I suppose in this mode I can see the complete result.So I need a dimostration on any oscilloscope HAMEG That works with software.PA4TIM can you help me on this ?? Have you the possibility to post some screeshots of the software can read the result of square wave ?

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 11:17:12 am
content: You may want to check :https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/new-member-please-introduce-yourself/345/Scroll down and you will see a 1507-3 with a capture on computer.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 11:37:58 am
content: Yes, very interested !! many thanks !!!Now the points to undestand are:1) If the software work on win7 / win 82) If is possible "load" on PC a waveform saved inside the scope.3) If there is the possibility to see other pictures.4) If the software can work with some serial / USB cables.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 12:02:56 pm
content: i think you have a bit a wrong idea about how a scope works. like i said, this pictures do not tell you anything usefull. And your conclusions are wrong. if the Tr is to fast the DSO will draw a vertical line but that is the software just filling in missing info. So you see something that is possible not there. the analog mode is a nice check.first read a bit more about scopes.

author: anotherlin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 12:06:53 pm
content: Easiest thing for you to do, is to go towww.hameg.comand download all manuals and documents regarding the oscilloscopes you are interested with.If you're buying a (used) properly working scope from Hameg, there's not much that can go wrong. They make solid stuff, deutsche qualitat (german engineering). I personally own one of their new digital scope (HM0722) along with a PSU (8142), never had the problem. For audio, a 20MHz scope is more than enough.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 12:13:09 pm
content: I was ask all my informations to Hameg.At the moment the Hameg 404 - 504 seem a very interested scope for audio and not (if the software work good).I wating to receive the informations from hameg.Thank you for all the support !!!

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 03:59:23 pm
content: Hello luca1000here are the pictures from PM3392A. The frequence is about 2.35kHzThe PM3392A has a 16 Bit memory. You can do average or digital filter the signal to have more than 8 Bit. The PM3392A has a RS232 connector.But you should know that PA4TIM has right. The picture says little.But I think it is no bad to have a combiscope, if it is cheap.Best Regardsegonotto

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 05:15:28 pm
content: Interesting !!!There is difference between analog and digital.At first impact the digial mode seem affect to a bit noise, but I don't sure if the difference depend by this or not.The questions is what is real result ??

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 07:10:40 pm
content: Interesting ? I can show you screenshots of the same measurement made on a modern 350 MHz Hameg MSO, on a 1GHz anloge sample scope and on a 100 MHz Rigol. The differences are rather shocking .... I posted those a while back here on the forum.If you want to know the truth you need to do a test like I described before, with a calibrated generator suited for this test.If bandwidths and quality of scopes are equal, most times trust the analog scope. They are the most realtime and if they miss a signal they do not show it. A DSO can reconstruct the data the wrong way. If you know how they work and know your signal you recognize these things. DSOs have many advantages but also disadvantages. They made the dual mode scopes just because of thos reason, you have all the advantages of a DSO but when in doubt you can use the analog option to check. But that made them expensive and for most low end users it was not a need and without it the scope was less expensive.Look at some pictures of cheap DSOs. Some sinewaves look like huge steps.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 08:26:32 pm
content: PA4TIMYou confirm my impression, analogue generally get better performance comparated with 2 scopes with similar price, especially if the digial scope is a chinese low cost (hameg is another planet ....).Now I like to follow a simple way with less comprimise:I consider a cheap analogue HM504 or HM404 (both analog scope) and not a combiscope.These scope can be connect to PC with RS232 serial port with a software called SP107E.Now I need to undesrtand if with this software is possible load to PC a saved waveform (the unit allow to save up to 9 waveform).This is certanly possible with the combiscope models (M507 or HM407) but I don't sure if is possible with the analog models (HM504 or HM404).If this is possible with the software SP107E I have solved all problems.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 08:38:52 pm
content: I have checked is not possible with analogue scope only with combiscope is possible.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 11:38:38 pm
content: Hameg used to produce even better combiscopes.http://www.hameg.com/uploads/media/HAMEG_en_HM2008_Info_01.pdf

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 07:40:49 am
content: Yes, but my budget is 200-250 Euro.For this price I can searching one of these models: HM305-2 , HM407 , HM507 used.