Weird Snap-On Multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 08:58:40 am
content: Just sumbled across this:https://shop.snapon.com/product/Automotive-Digital-Multimeters/Large-Color-Display%2C-True-RMS%2C-Digital-Multimeter-Enhanced/EEDM525FThe price is

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 09:55:09 am
content: Given it's a Snap-On, the price is about a third of what I expected... I wonder what it's a rebrand of? Aneng?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 11:20:58 am
content: At least it doesn't have HfeThe price, however, ismorethan ludicrous. I've heard of paying for a brand - but sheeeeesh!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 11:48:48 am
content: The basic DC accuracy is 0.005 so maybe the price is justified?Quote from: Brumby on March 06, 2021, 11:20:58 amIt could be worse, check the price of their manual-rangingvoltmeter/fuse tester:Or their"Traditional multimeter"

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 12:15:32 pm
content: LOL, you have to pay for the user manual:https://shop.snapon.com/product/Automotive-Digital-Multimeters/EEDM525F-User-Manual/EEDM525F-Z

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 12:28:11 pm
content: for a 4000 count meter ??

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 12:28:40 pm
content: A huge thing, what the dimensions concerns:

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 12:31:18 pm
content: Enhanced in witch way loll look like a soap bar can't stop laughingA while ago we had a clock meter somewhere here for 80$ usd, and was i think a 20000 count meter ...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:08:02 pm
content: I own a Snap-On BK5600 bore scope and their Blue Point Microscan OBD II diagnostics scanner.I bought both at very reasonable cost on eBay and both were ‘as new’ condition. The original price of the BK5600 bore scope was something like £700 ! I paid around £80 for mine. The Blue Point Microscan is priced at around £400 and I paid £50 for mine. Deals like this are quite common when agents sell their demonstration products.Why is Snap-On kit so expensive ? Well why is any specialist kit expensive ..... because the Manufacturer decides that the market will pay the asking price. Simple ! Where medical kit is concerned there is a lot of safety compliance testing, certification etc and so the inflated prices may be more justifiable. With garage kit, the garages need robust and reliable test kit with good support. That is what Snap-On trades on. They offer lifetime, no quibble replacement on some tools so you effectively pay fir that in the original price. Other kit is sold with same day or next day replacement guarantee if it fails. This is important for a busy garage. Garages charge decent money for repair and servicing so they can afford £500 on a meter that carries the respected Snap-On brand name and associated support. My local garage is excellent and charges fair prices. I know the owner and to hear what he has to pay for diagnostic equipment and then an annual subscription to use it makes my eyes water. Garages are ‘victims’ of the motor industries desire to make third party serving difficult and expensive. We are back to Louis Rossmanns ‘Right to Repair’ argument in some ways. Third party suppliers of advanced vehicle diagnostic equipment only have to compete against the crazy prices asked my the Car Manufacturers for such kit. This sets an environment in which ANY electronics diagnostic kit costs a small fortune and some require a support contract or subscription to continue their use ! Not unlike other hardware systems I have worked on in other specialist fields.So this Multimeter is around £500 in the UK. Such a price would not be a surprise to most garages and they will pay it rather than take a risk on buying a multimeter from an unknown brand with unknown support quality. There is also the ‘customer expects Snap-On tools’ mentality that supports buying high quality tools from Snap-On. Are those tools worth the asking price ? That is for you to decide. My video borescooe and Microscan are excellent bits of kit that work very wellThe video borescope has a very small diameter tip equipped with two CCD cameras to see straight ahead or to provide a 90 degree view (great for piston crown and cylinder inspections). The view is selected by a simple touch of the LCD screenNo messing with angled mirror tips here ! A very nice and useful, bit of kit in both the garage and home environments. The OBD II unit is well designed and built. It does its job well but so do many Asia sourced scanners ! I own some of the Chinese scanners and they can be very good as well. Good ones can still be quite expensive though.For information, Snap-On have two ranges.... the Red cased Snap-On range and the Blue cased Blue Point range. The Red range is normally custom made for Snap-On but the Blue-Point range is usually a bought in product that Snap-On want to offer under their “3rd Party Tool” branding of Blue Point.Back to the multimeter in question..... it is a Snap-On Red cased unit so built under contract for Snap-On. By who ?..... No ideaIt offers a easily held unit with large colour display for ease of visibility when viewing from a distance or in poor lighting. The measurement functions match those needed in the garage environment and the format of the buttons etc is intended to make it easy to use. The unit will also be sealed against moisture and dirt ingress. Worth £500 ? Well a FLUKE 87V is not exactly cheap is it and much of the cost is down to the FLUKE name, so yes, I think a garage will consider £500 for such a meter affordable. Heck when they have to pay £15K for a OBD II diagnostics unit and a further £1500 per year for its licence subscription, £500 for a Snap-On meter actually sounds cheap !Such a meter would likely sell for around £150 on the secondary market and garages often get discounts from Snap-On.Get to know your local independent garage owner, like I did, and you will soon realise what rich pickings the garage equipment suppliers have in the industry and why you have to pay your garage £75/hour for labour. I had to pay £10 per tyre to have four tyres taken off their wheel rims and that was less than 15 minutes work. I understand that garage servicing is even more expensive in the USA.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:13:11 pm
content: A quick check of eBay shows that I can buy this multimeter new for £250 in the UK....https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Snap-On-Enhanced-Multimeter-TRMS-Colour-EEDM525F-NEW/373481901985?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3De4ec50eddc9b4817b8835834c2f817a9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D373481901985%26itm%3D373481901985%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DSnap-on&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aee385001-7e85-11eb-96b3-9a35544bf252%7Cparentrq%3A07e18dbf1780a6e610bf0248ffe7faa3%7Ciid%3A1Seller looks to be a Snap On dealer or factory outlet. I bought my Snap On borescope and Microscan from such a seller on eBay. I registered the Microscan with Snap On with no difficulty so it has not “fallen off the back of a lorry”. I think there are deals on Snap On kit and they sometimes appear as new kit on eBay via dealers.Fraser

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:17:06 pm
content: Quoteyea but its guaranteed for life

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:25:18 pm
content: Both my units came with hard copy user manuals. Some equipment comes with a CD or on line manuals that the user must print. Is £10 for a replacement manual unfair ? Not in my experience. When asking companies to provide a paper manual fir specialist equipment, I have been quoted anything from £10 to £175The worst case is when a company says the equipment is obsolete and no user manual was kept on file.If a Snap-On customer asks their C.S. Rep for the PDF of the user manual, they can usually help, even for old kit.... and at no cost.I am not. Snap-On fanboy and only own the above stated equipment from them, but they are a reputable company that is known to provide excellent customer support. So let’s not bash them over the £10 paper manual cost eh ? Try getting other big companies to supply one cheaper for specialist kit ? You will likely be offered only the PDF to print yourself. Time is money after all.Fraser

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 02:53:34 pm
content: It looks like the meter has more current ranges than standard, i.e. it can measure a decade lower currents than other 4000 count meters.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:23:19 pm
content: QuoteFluke 289 0.025Fluke 87V 0.05Brymen 869 0.02Siglent SDM3055 0.015Well...Not so bad, more spec. infos would be nice.

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:48:29 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 03:23:19 pmRead the specifications: 0.005 is nowhere as good as 0.025% (I added % to the above quote).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:51:02 pm
content: Hm, thought the 0.005 was meant in %

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 03:51:02 pmThat would not be possible on a 4000 count meter.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 03:53:06 pm
content: 4000 count is 0.025% resolution, so I would guess it's 5mV, or 0.125%.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:02:44 pm
content: Another expensive product for car diagnostics is the series of PICO automotive specialist USB oscilloscopes. Once again we see the price adjusted upwards to what garages are willing to pay for electronics diagnostic kit. Pretty decent automotive DSO’s but anything but cheap !https://www.picoauto.com/https://uk.autologic.com/products/picoscopehttp://www.saelig.com/category/MFR00063G.htmLook at the basic 4225 kit specifications and then the price...... $1900 for just 2 channels with up to 400Ms/S sampling rate and only 20MHz bandwidth !http://www.saelig.com/picoscope-4225-1/picoscope-4225-standard-kit.htmFraser

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:05:34 pm
content: Quote from: tunk on March 06, 2021, 03:53:06 pmCorrect.It is, of course, possible to cheat with the "+x digits" specification. I have seen some meter where the AC specification was at the edge of cheating with a nice %, but a large "+x digits" specification.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:10:28 pm
content: Ok I get the count thing, but what got it for benefits which makes it "not cheap"...🤔

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:35:05 pm
content: QuoteHad someone ask me about a current clamp to measure the parasitic draw when the car is off. I have found the UNI-T UT210E works good enough for this. They mention making this measurement with this meter. Anytime I have used a standard handheld to measure this with a shunt or direct, I have to add a bunch of jumpers to allow me to pull the battery terminal after the car starts powering down. I wonder if this meter has a better way to make this measurement. Doubt it.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 04:44:00 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 06, 2021, 04:35:05 pmMost likely nope, and very expensive fuses when you get it wrong.Some of their other tools, which are not CAT rated for 'hybrids', use automotive fuses. Much more practical.For all the laughing about the price and not-stellar specs, it's an automotive meter. The form factor and display are probably rather better than a typical 'handheld' (which we all use sat upright on a bench...) for the application.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 05:04:17 pm
content: The Snap-on Enhanced multimeter 596 data sheet.https://www.snapon.co.za/download/sample/7589The accessories include current clamps.Fraser

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 05:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 06, 2021, 05:04:17 pmEven more expensive. 0.1% at 40,000 count, yawn. Pretty light on the specs, but that's normal for Snap-On.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 06:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 03:23:19 pmQuote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 03:51:02 pmI caught you!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 06:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on March 06, 2021, 06:04:50 pmThey're not selling to electronics engineers. Car mechanics just want something that "works".Quote from: joeqsmith on March 06, 2021, 04:35:05 pmI would have said that a multimeter with an amps range and no current clamp is a very bad idea for a car mechanic, that's just me though.How long before they try to measure current draw on engine start?

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 06:52:39 pm
content: I thought everybody knew of this meter!It's actually really nice, and compared to a Fluke it's price seems pretty normal to me.And don't call me a Snap On fanboy, because I only like 2 of their products. This and their mini torch. I think the rest of their crap is way overpriced!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 07:06:17 pm
content: It's a strange bird. COO Korea, the LCD display font looks exactly like our favorite low cost DMM's... with the usual chipset.Battery Life: "10 hours continuous typical (Lithium battery) 9V Lithium Battery (purchased locally)"If you can afford this multimeter, you can afford lithium batteries for it. Or it's a typo?"7-year warranty"Blowing one up every year, that equivalent $75 price. Not bad. The 10A range is going to get fried constantly."CAT-III 1,000 V AC and CAT-IV 600 V AC hybrid safety ratings mean its safe to use on hybrids" Then it says: "CATIII 750 V AC, CATIII 1,000 V DC, CATIV 600 V AC/DC cULus 61010"So hopefully it has real safety approvals.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 07:08:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 06, 2021, 02:08:02 pmWhat really SELLS the Snap-On brand in the US are the facts that their trucks routinely go to every auto dealership and every auto repair garage every day and will deliver a tool or replace it on the spot without the mechanic needing to leave work and go to a tool store, like Sears, to buy what they need or wait for the store to order it. Also the fact that Snap-On willfinancethe tool for any working mechanic. As a mechanic they might suddenly need a special wrench to adjust the carburetor on a '58 Chevy and they can wait till the Snap-On truck arrives that day and buy one without losing any time away from work or having to wait until they can afford to buy the tool. That allows the mechanic to possibly finish that job that day instead of stopping and starting, and at even at a third or a half (the mechanic's share) of the $120 per hour that garages frequently charge, it MAKES money for them. It's a great convenience but theyPAYfor that convenience!

author: HKJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 07:09:37 pm
content: Quote from: ResistorRob on March 06, 2021, 06:52:39 pmLiving up to Fluke quality and safety is rather hard and there is no evidence that they do. How much independent testing have they admitted to?Look at Brymen, they have better safety specification than Fluke and have independent testing, but they are not more expensive.With that said, the meter do not look half bad. 4000 count 0.5% is fairly standard, but the large display and the extra current range are nice. The price is rather high for a "unknown" brand. With people that already have confidence in the brand the price may be acceptable.I would like a glance at the PCB: is it a cheap meter or do they have good protection. In the later case the price may be acceptable.

author: NoisyBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 07:18:44 pm
content: I don't know about the 10 hour battery life with 9V lithium battery, the cost and the need to replace it regularly would be a nuisance for most professionals who use it daily.Is there any other DMM that uses disposable battery has a shorter battery life? At least OLED DMM like the U1253B comes with a rechargeable battery pack. I like their hand tools, but I will take a Fluke over this any day.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2021, 07:39:04 pm
content: A point has been raised in the comments that I had not even considered..... the harsh environment of the Automotive world where all manner of noise and unscreened cables can lead to challenging phantom voltages and unusual behaviour from a meter not intended for such use. I am not saying that the meter that is the subject of this thread has amazing noise filtering etc, but that is something that an Auto Tech might desire for reliable readings in all manner of test situations. You can also get some pretty nasty transient voltages on older automotive systems so an automotive multimeter might need enhanced input protection and 'ruggedized' ADC inputsI suspect that a true, decent quality automotive multimeter will be designed for the intended working environment, rather than just a standard multimeter design in a different casing and a "Automotive Multimeter" label on it. That said, I would suspect that many cheaper automotive multimeters are little more than standard consumer grade designs with the addition of some specialist measurement modes such as dwell angle etc. I do not work in the automotive diagnostics area so all this is just what I would expect, rather than known fact. It would indeed be interesting to see inside some "Automotive Multimeters" to see how different they are, if at all, from the standard consumer grade multimeter.Fraser

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:12:54 pm
content: If you take the time to really look at this meter it actually demonstrates a lot of innovation and concern for the target market. It leaves me with the impression that they did more than 5 minutes of research and avoided delivering another me to product. consider soem thigs ntoices immediately:a VERY large and bright display. Of course that is a picture but it looks the part. I can't tell you how many times I wish I had a larger and brighter display at work. Even in a well lite factory there are all sorts of dark places.All the controls easily gotten to while handheld.The form factor is also conducive to kick stand usage or simply laying about in odd places under the hood. Many modern DMM, are pretty useless on the bench due to the stability issue when propped up on their kick stand. Now maybe Snap-On didn't do it intentionally but this actually looks like a meter one could enjoy using on a bench.Price is interesting because I don't know how they will support it (the web site is down at the moment). However Snap-on and most of its dealers are really good about support.The leads are top mounted which I'm up in the air totally undecided about. However if used at the bench this may be far better than bottom accessed banana jacks.In any event just things that stood out doing nothing more than looking at the picture.As for the meter I'd love to see a tear down and evaluation of the meter. I suspect people will be surprised.Quote from: EEVblog on March 06, 2021, 08:58:40 am

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:21:04 pm
content: Quote from: coromonadalix on March 06, 2021, 12:28:11 pmI have gotten by with less for years, If I remember correctly my first DVM was 3.5 digits. I'm not sure when the obsession with digits became a thing but do you really need all of that resolution for normal usage. Especially the normal usage this meter would be put to.Don't get me wrong there is good reason to want a lot of resolution in a meter but that really isn't the case for this one.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:33:54 pm
content: If you are buying off the Snap-On tool truck you are paying for a service. In some cases that service is worth every penny to the garage.Snap-on is an interesting company and has some really unique and high quality tools. However Snap-On is an umbrella of sorts for a bunch of other companies owned by Snap-On. For instance if you want a fantastic Crescent wrench but don't want to pay the Snap-On tax look for products from BahCo. The same thing goes for torque wrenches, they own the major supplier to industry, whose name escapes me, that has products you can buy through industrial distribution often at lower prices.For the rest of the tool lineup, not cheap is often the case. However I've found that sometimes even through the Snap-On catalog they can be competitive or at least not grossly over charging.Quote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 04:10:28 pm

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 07, 2021, 04:12:54 pmI'll agree with that.They should have made it rechargeable though, or able to run it off a 12V cigarette lighter plug.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:40:28 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on March 06, 2021, 04:44:00 pmActually I can see it having a lot of potential outside the automobile world.Interestingly though one of the first things to grab me was the form factor. If the case includes a kickstand (not clear on this) it would beat most handheld meters for bench usage. You wouldn't need to worry about it rolling over at the slightest provocation.I look at it this way, it is good to see somebody innovating and doing so without adding useless features to the meter.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:49:02 pm
content: Thanks for the link! The meter is more interesting than I first thought. It apparently has Bluetooth support for remote diagnostics with a cell phone. Probably out of my price range for now but interesting anyways.Quote from: Fraser on March 06, 2021, 05:04:17 pm

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 04:49:46 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 07, 2021, 04:40:28 pmExcept... 10 hours battery life.If you want a bench meter form factor could get the Aneng AN888S:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000343031770.htmlIt's quite a good little meter if you can get past the bluetooth speaker and alarm clock jokes.This has just appeared, too:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-xdm1041-the-unknown-multimeter/

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2021, 05:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on March 06, 2021, 07:08:03 pmPeople don't realize how important those trucks are to mechanics. If mechanics buy the tools with lifetime warranties then they never have to worry about getting it replaced if broken. For tools with lesser warranties they have rebuild programs that can save the user a lot of dough.Also real high on the list is that your are getting tools of a known quality. With the way some of the store brands have gone to hell, Sears with Craftsman being one big name, this is very important. It use to be that Craftsman offered serviceable tools but that is apparently a thing of the past. So yeah getting a good quality, tool with a warranty, is a big deal for most mechanics.In some case the difference in quality of the tool is massively in favor of Snap-On. Even your local discount auto parts stores have tools that are basically crap. Yeah you can get cheaper but you need to work a lot harder to get better tools.QuoteYou also have tax considerations. After all most mechanics in the USA are independent businessman in some shape or form.I'm not sure why people get so upset over the convenience issue, which frankly is why the trucks exist. Most people can do their taxes themselves but often hire somebody to do the taxes for them every quarter or year. So they pay for the convenience instead of doing it for free.I'm not trying to be a fan boy here but rather just find it perplexing that Snap-On gets picked on in this way.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 01:08:02 am
content: I can remember when the Snap-On truck used to visit our company (maybe 20 year ago now) and all the mechanical engineers would run outside like 5yo kids to the ice cream van!

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 01:09:39 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on March 07, 2021, 05:12:52 pmDoing my taxes is one of my biggest expenses actually!And worth every cent.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 04:43:07 am
content: Not at all surprising.Imagine getting your accountant to fix a Tek 485.

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 08:27:31 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on March 08, 2021, 04:43:07 amI wouldn't let an accountant anywhere near any of my equipment.In one firm I worked at I witnessed the physical destruction of some perfectly good equipment and components on the orders of accountants for tax compliance purposes.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 08:18:46 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 06, 2021, 12:15:32 pmThat’s a perfectly reasonable price for a replacement printed manual. It is odd that they don’t offer a PDF download, though. Maybe they’ll email it to you on request, though.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 09:02:37 pm
content: Tooki,Yes I find the lack of a manual download area on the Snap-On site strange. Possibly it is the old marketing strategy of getting the customer to make contact with their customer service department in an effort to sell other equipment to them or gather personal details that may be used by the sales team ?Fraser

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2021, 11:24:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 07, 2021, 04:49:46 pmBoth of these are chunkier and digits don't seem nearly as big as the snap-on.If Fischer-price made a multimeter it could be a suitable alternative.