Did TI ever make a 4000 series data book? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 04:58:29 am
content: Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, still kind of new to the forum.I just realized I've never seen the actual book the blurryCD4XXX PDF datasheetscome from. I have their TTL, linear, etc. books but don't think I've ever come across a TI book with 4000 logic in it, but I have a ton of TI 4000 logic so it must have been pretty popular. It's irrelevant in 2017 because I just print what I need and keep it in a big binder (and assume most don't even do that now) but I just want to know what book these were contained in. I've seen CMOS books from them but they're for 74HC IIRC.

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:16:29 am
content: I cannot remember if there was ever a TI 4000 series databook, but the 4000 series was designed by RCA starting in the late 1960's. There definitely were RCA 4000 series databooks.Here is a much later 1983 version:https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_rcadataBooMOS_35821859If you click on the download link, for some reason, you get the 1986 HC/HCT series databook, but the one on the webpage is the 4000 series.I would think that TI came to the 4000 series cmos fairly late. I seem to remember Harris was one of the early second sources of the 4000 series. Philips bacame pretty big in the improved cmos versions and they had some great databooks.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:24:14 am
content: Not before Feb '75.Listed in my NILinear ICproduct catalog:Digital IC's54/7454H/74H54L/74L74S930900010,000But there's a listing for CMOS IC catalog with headings:GatesBuffersFlip-FlopsCountersShift RegistersDecoders/MultiplexersMemoriesArithmetic FunctionsSpecial FunctionsOne would presume theCMOS ICbook is the one you're looking for.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:24:39 am
content: Yeah I know I've seen really old (early 70's) RCA 4000 series books, and some more recent ones from Motorola, National, and (I think) Signetics. I'm just wondering because thevastmajority of the 4000 logic I've come across has been TI-made CD4000

author: amspire
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:35:27 am
content: Quote from: dos on July 26, 2017, 04:58:29 amIf you look at that link, you will see that this TI datasheet was from Harris. It is probable that TI never wrote any 4000 series databook themselves. I seem to remember that National Semiconductors (now owned by TI) did have a 4000 series databook.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:37:33 am
content: Quote from: amspire on July 26, 2017, 05:35:27 amWow, totally missed that, thanks!

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 05:51:38 am
content: Quote from: amspire on July 26, 2017, 05:35:27 amI'm thinking back that some of the logic datebooks were titled things like MSI/LSI logic, rather than specifically CMOS 4000. It'll need a trip to the archives but I might have a couple of early logic reference books though 74HC/HCT took over much of the general purpose logic rather quickly.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 06:10:54 am
content: Mystery solved, the datasheets are from RCA/Harris databooks. If you look at the 4026 datasheet I linked the TI logo appears to be pasted on, and this 1983 RCA CMOS databook's sheets look almost identical:http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/rca/_dataBooks/1983_RCA_CMOS_Databook.pdfI'm guessing the TI sheets are scanned from a later book, probably after RCA was bought by Harris, perhaps this one (which I can't find in PDF):EDIT: in searching I found this great resource for many manufacturer's databooks which helped me narrow this down quickly:http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 09:16:18 am
content: TI never had their own metal-gate CMOS (4xxx) series.In 1998, they bought the logic division from Harris and so extended the portfolio with CD4xxx parts.There was never any real effort to change the datasheets to TI format, they are simply scanned Harris datasheets with a TI logo on top.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2017, 12:36:10 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on July 26, 2017, 05:24:14 amNot NI (National Instruments) but National Semiconductor. I love that databook more than all the others, because it the devices were fascinating.It is here, along with other great National databooks...http://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22National%20Semiconductor%22Another great one for the time was Tower's International Transistor Selector Guide. You can still get it here for free...https://archive.org/details/TowersInternationalTransistorSelector

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2017, 10:30:31 pm
content: Not as good as non-blurry scans of the pages, but here's what they look like.I have a lot of early TI databooks, but no TI 4000-series CMOS book. Not sure if they ever did one.Thought I had an RCA 4000-series one as well, but didn't find it where it should have been on the shelves.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 01:20:00 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on July 27, 2017, 10:30:31 pmI recycled most of my old data books a few years ago but I saved the Motorola CMOS book along with the Motorola semiconductor book. All my National books are no more, so I substituted the Motorola MECL book to give that nice blue look.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 01:24:42 am
content: I bet if we all polled our resources we could make a pretty decent historical tech library.This RCA book is very tiny print and thick with massive amounts of information in it, including the teletype character code.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 01:50:07 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 28, 2017, 01:24:42 amIf you check out this link I posted you'll see someone has already done that, it's seriously amazing. Maybe the owner of this server is a poster here?http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 04:48:24 am
content: Back in 2011 TI had a sale on their 1988 TTL Logic data book. Only 10 cents with next day air shipping included. So I bought one.I wouldn't mind having some kind of 4000 series data book. I may have to track one down.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 07:26:48 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 28, 2017, 01:24:42 amAh! Now I have to find one of those. For my collection of antique data format references.Could you please post the manual publication details - exact title, date, publisher, any ISBN, etc?Incidentally, this:http://www.baudot.net/docs/smith--teletype-codes.pdfQuote from: dos on July 28, 2017, 01:50:07 amBitsavers is a group effort. Yes, it's wonderful. But...- That RCA manual is not there (I think.)- Typical scan flaws. For eg seehttp://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/rca/1802/MPM-201A_CDP1802_User_Manual_1976.pdfScanned at decent resolution, but still in f*cking FAX mode (1 bit/pixel) so edges of fine details are totally messed up.Dear God, why can't people grasp that retaining a bit of gray scale is essential? 4 bits/pixel minimum, please!- Skewed pages, skewed pages everywhere. Grr...SOMEDAY, there will be a means to bulk scan literature to an acceptable quality of digital representation, but there isn't yet. This is why keeping all the old physical manuals is still essential. Otherwise future generations will have nothing from this era but a mountain of appallingly shitty scans; often more infuriating than nothing. Foldout schematics with bits missing for instance.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 10:10:39 am
content: Quote from: rdl on July 28, 2017, 04:48:24 amUgh, I read about that long after the fact and would have really liked a new one, mine's rough and about to fall apart. If anyone has one in good shape they don't want I'll gladly give you a few bucks+shipping for it.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 10:16:00 am
content: Mine fell to bits years ago.I have found the TTL Cookbook and CMOS Cookbook titles by Don Lancaster to be good enough quick reference substitutes. You can get hold of them for virtually nothing. They also seem to avoid covering the less common parts i.e. the ones that make you go "wooh that's a really nice IC" and then find the only modern source is eBay for $50 from China.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 28, 2017, 11:42:42 am
content: Quote from: dos on July 28, 2017, 01:50:07 amVery nice. Took a quick glance and there was Tundra.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 05:27:28 pm
content: Got the RCA book, CMOS with the metalisation layer drawings in it, along with the Ti TTL databook in the light orange they used, plus the 1982 Dallas Semi databook ( with all the vapourware, and I ordered some of the wafers as well) in somewhat well used condition.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 06:10:23 pm
content: Bitsavers is good, but anyone who wants to scan and upload should also consider putting a copy at archive.org .

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:33:57 pm
content: In storage I have 4000 series books from National, Motorola/On, and I think RCA or Harris or both, and maybe some others like from a Japanese company. I do not remember ever seeing a TI one.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 08:49:14 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on July 30, 2017, 08:33:57 pmMotorola/ON, yesRCA/Harris, yes"Japanese" = Toshiba, yesNational never did 4000-series, they did have their own 74Cxxx-line, thoughTI also never did 4000-series, but bought the Harris line in 1998. Never bothered to make a TI data book.Other smaller players were in as well, like SSS Inc.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 09:01:54 pm
content: I was asked about the black RCA book I show. The book is marked as follows:RCAGOVERNMENT SERVICESFIELD ENGINEER'STECHNICAL MANUALRCA FIELD ENGINEERINGGOVERNMENT SERVICESRCA SERVICE COMPANYA DIVISION OF RADIO CORPORATION OF AMERICAThere is no ISBN number. The book is dated 9/14/60.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 30, 2017, 10:54:12 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on July 30, 2017, 09:01:54 pmThanks for that. Still having no luck with net searches though. Another one for the ebay standing search list.One good thing came of this so far - I'd either forgotten or never come across the ebay Vintage Manuals category.eBay > Consumer Electronics > Vintage Electronics> Vintage Audio & Video Electronics> Vintage Electronics Parts & Accessories> Vintage Electronics Manualshttps://www.ebay.com/b/Vintage-Manuals/39996Lots of very tempting things. But as usual I don't have lots of spare cash. Oh well.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 01:17:31 am
content: Quote from: Benta on July 30, 2017, 08:49:14 pmI consider 74C the same thing and some 4000 part numbers made it over to 74C4xxx but the 1975 National CMOS Integrated Circuit databook includes a whole section with CD4000 series parts. I have the National 1977 CMOS databook which has the same thing.We forgot one; Fairchild also had a databook and full line of 4000 series CMOS.

author: xmo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 01:06:28 pm
content: TI did print a CMOS data book. I have a copy - the third edition dated 1975. It states that the "information contained herein supersedes previously published data on CMOS logic circuits from TI, including data book CC-417."It contains a cross reference guide that shows replacement of Motorola and RCA part numbers with corresponding TI numbers, for example the TI TF4000A/TP4000A replaces MC14000 and CD4000A.It also has a nice section explaining the improvements in the "B" series parts.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 08:45:32 pm
content: This is interesting.It shows that "vapourware" is not a new thing.To my best knowledge, neither TI nor National ever produced 4000-series CMOS parts back then (this is call to everyone that might have seen such a device in the wild). But they published databooks to "test the waters" it seems.Historically interesting, hold on to those books :-)

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 09:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on July 31, 2017, 08:45:32 pmNational had 4000 series CMOS included in several of their databooks over the years though and a Google image search reveals 4000 series parts with both National and TI markings.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2017, 10:01:57 pm
content: Yeah, the TI parts are well-known, those are the old RCA/Harris parts. That's been flogged to death. TI still didn't make a databook, though, but just published the scanned Harris datasheets with TI logo.The National part is interesting, though. I think I need to dig into my archives.Thanks.

author: dos
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 04:32:34 pm
content: Quote from: Benta on July 30, 2017, 08:49:14 pmStrange, I have a kind of recent (late 80's-90's) National book full of 4000 logic. It's actually my primary reference for these as the only other book I have with them is Motorola and I don't like their diagrams/text.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2017, 06:41:28 pm
content: Yes, I have to revise my statement about National.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2017, 03:16:23 pm
content: Quote from: amspire on July 26, 2017, 05:16:29 amIn fact I have a 1975 RCA CD4000 databook (I also have the same years LINEAR, POWER TRANSISTOR and THYRISTOR/RECTIFIERS volumes)See cover attachedBest regards

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2017, 02:43:43 am
content: Any of you people with rare old databooks, if you ever get bitten by the "I have too many old technical books, must be time to throw them away" bug (a form of insanity all too common these days), please PM me first. I'll see if I can afford postage at the time.