UK abolishes <£15 VAT free imports. EU to follow. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:11:04 pm
content: For those unaware, I was made aware today by Forum member Ultrapurple that eBay UK are adding VAT to sales from China. I did some digging and sure enough, as of 1st January 2021 the UK has abolished the £15 VAT free import threshold. A new £135 threshold has been introduced. ALL imports to the UK below £135 are liable to VAT collection at source (point of sale) and all imports above £135 require the usual importation value declaration and payment of VAT by the buyer before delivery.Apparently the £15 VAT free threshold was originally intended to reduce the workload on HMRC and its collection agents. The Low value VAT relief system was seriously abused though. Items were undervalued to come in under £15 and avoid VAT. That loophole has now been closed and the responsibility for collecting the VAT falls to the seller or marketplace fir all items under £135.On a positive note, maybe this will avoid the awful paperwork fees that many courier companies and postal services used to charge on lowish value item VAT collection. Example .... Say an item costs £20 and £4 VAT is due BUT there is a £12 paperwork fee from the courier to pay !Times, they are a changing in the UK.......Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:13:23 pm
content: Articles on the changes....https://tamebay.com/2021/01/have-vat-changes-for-online-marketplaces-levelled-the-playing-field.htmlhttps://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-ending--22-import-exemption--import-oss-returns.htmlThe EU is going to follow this same strategy in mid 2021

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:14:08 pm
content: So how exactly are they going to police collection from foreign sellers ?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:31:50 pm
content: Mike,Not sure how this is going to work in reality but there is no longer any VAT relief below £15. An independent (non-eMarketplace) seller could undervalue a sale but exactly how that would be policed I do not know. eBay have already applied the change so I have seen all my low value watched items increase in cost since 1st January. I have read that FedEx have previously been challenging suspicious package valuations by requiring buyers to provide proof of purchase documentation with full cost details.It is early days but we can kiss goodbye to VAT free imports of CD’s, DVD’s and ink cartridges from the Channel Islands !Fraser

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:45:24 pm
content: Speaking of which Fraser, will I ever get my fireman propeller camera from a long while ago when you're clering your inventory ?DC1MC

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 12:57:42 pm
content: I believe for the EU the plan is to only implement it in half a year.They are supposed to provide simplified paperwork for these items, simpler than CN22.And the seller should collect the VAT, not the shipper. I expect that ie Aliexpress will charge extra 20% or so for these small items, and the entire loophole will be closed. I'm not sure how well this will work for smaller companies, or PCB houses.I'm not really troubled by the tax, the customs processing fees are the real problem. And the pickups that come with it. I'm really not looking for standing in line to collect an 1 EUR item in an overpriced shop in the city center (without parking), paying 10 EUR for this privilege.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:03:56 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 08, 2021, 12:14:08 pmI expect the same way NZ and probably AU does... namely, they don't because they only need to catch the big fish.The big name marketplaces complied when we did the same (all-be-it begrudgingly), Aliexpress, eBay, Amazon and that far more reliably covers like 90% of these low value imports I imagine. The rest is small fry that if they comply, bonus, if they don't, not worth chasing.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:10:15 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 08, 2021, 12:14:08 pmI have a very unpleasant feeling that this might fall on the buyer if they can't verify/track down the seller has paid it, best case many direct transactions will just carry on as normal, mid scenario might mean we still end up with VAT and collection fee to pay and worst, it might get confiscated/destroyed at customs if they can't track down or prove the duties have been paidIf it's worst case then it will be bloody difficult if not impossible to get a refund.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:15:41 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 08, 2021, 01:10:15 pmThey went after ebay a few years ago. Now they just add this to every item: "Customs services and international tracking provided"They charge all the tax amd fees up front.Since then, I didn't had any issue with ordering anything from ebay. Hopefully it will be like this.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:19:21 pm
content: DC1MC,The changes will not effect selling used items from the UK to you in Germany via a private sale.Regarding the Talisman BST thermal cameras. From memory you wanted one that was tested working or an easy repair ? I just have not had the time to test the cameras and sadly it is unlikely that I can spend time determining whether any faulty units are an easy repair as I would just spend the extra few minutes repairing the unit myself.Sadly the Talisman cameras are not of very high value so they slipped down the priority list in favour of higher value item sales. I might be able to supply Talisman cameras to you but they will be ‘as found’ with no diagnostic work by me before shipped. That is an unknown risk for you though. I never want to sell something that disappoints a buyer so in cases where an item is an unknown, I often will not sell it rather than risk any disappointment.Fraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:25:55 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 08, 2021, 01:15:41 pmI hope it remains that way, as it stands it makes very little difference to eBay sales as far as I can see, they're a little bit more expensive because VAT at point of purchase.Cynical me thinks this has actually made the situation worse, sellers outside the UK (and later outside the EU) may just decide it's not worth the bother to send to us.I suspect it will make the dominance of Amazon, eBay and the huge multinationals even greater and businesses that wish to sell outside those channels could be forced out of the marketplace.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:50:19 pm
content: I have already read of one importer of parts from China who was told by his supplier that they were ceasing supply to the UK due to the increased paperwork overhead. He was negotiating with the supplier to sell him consignments that exceed the £135 threshold so that the shipment collects VAT at the destination rather than point of sale. I have not heard whether the seller was interested in that arrangement.Fraser

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 01:57:17 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 08, 2021, 01:25:55 pmI truly believe most citizens in the UK will spend most of their time robbing pharmacies for basic medicine and supermarkets for the last rolls of toilet paper in about 1 week. Buying internationally will be impossible, since the GBP will be valued somewhere near the Turkish lira.But at least big companies will have fish. Or something like that.And sorry to say, but it will be well deserved. You had 4 years to throw your politicians in the Thames and change your mind.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:02:07 pm
content: Based on how it happens with other countries, likely you can simply make a fake label showing that tax is paid. For example for Norway add: VOEC NO:2024926 Code:Paid. 2024926 is simply ebay tax payer code, no sale identification at all.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:20:35 pm
content: NANDBlog,That is an unnecessary inflammatory statement and there are an awful lot of people who you know will not agree with you so why make it ? This thread has nothing to do with BREXIT so why try to bring that into the conversation eh ? As for us suffering a valueless Pound or being in desperate need of pharmaceuticals and loo roll......You severely underestimate the United Kingdom and it does you no credit.Fraser

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:30:45 pm
content: Here the solution was to simply charge a "handling fee" on all incoming small packet and small parcel items, and if the declared value total for a year exceeds a threshold you have to pay customs duty on the lot every year end. Does mean a $1 with shipping packet, comes in with you having to pay $2.50 as fee. Sucks if the order was sent as 5 or 10 small packets if you ordered multiple, as the seller has them ready packed and just puts the sticker on it, then dumps it into a bag to go via China post. Only way the Post office is going to make any money, as almost nobody sends actual mail these days, and sending a parcel by them is also expensive, and not guaranteed to be delivered at all.

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:42:56 pm
content: In Norway this was introduced 1st april 2020; at checkouteBay adds 25% VAT. The sellers are supposed to mark theshipment with a code to say that VAT has been paid. Thisdoes not always happen, so I've added it in "street address 2".

author: Zucca
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:44:28 pm
content: I am wondering what US will do or are they already doing it?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:56:16 pm
content: Quote from: tunk on January 08, 2021, 02:42:56 pmHandy tip, thank you.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 02:56:33 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 02:20:35 pmWell, it does, because if it weren't for Brexit we'd be bringing this in in six months along with the rest of the EU in a unified system which would be far less disruptive to our trade.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 03:04:44 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 08, 2021, 02:56:33 pmI *think* that businesses only need to register in one EU country (Harmonized System) to sell to all EU countries.But we're no longer in the EU.We haven't even got the fish.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 03:11:48 pm
content: Over here a non-EU seller who sells his stuff to consumers via Amazon/ebay/etc. needs to register with a specific tax office and has to pay VAT. Because many non-EU sellers don't register (and don't pay VAT) there are changes under way to make the market platforms liable for the black sheep. So the market platforms have to verify that sellers are registered before allowing them to sell to German consumers. There will be also rules to help the tax office to check sales amounts. Besides that we have a < EUR 22 VAT free import which is also abused massively. So this exemption might change too in the future.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 03:21:09 pm
content: Reading what some manufacturers and suppliers in the UK have said about this change, it appears to be very popular and many have complained that it has taken so long for HMRC to bring it in. On this matter, we are ahead of the EU. What these UK businesses said was that the Chinese sellers have benefitted for too long from low shipping costs combined with avoiding charging VAT on what they sell to the UK and this provided an unfair advantage over UK domestic sellers of products. When I think about the items I have bought from China that have arrived in week or two and the total cost, including postage was less than the UK postage alone would have been! How were UK sellers supposed to compete with that ?Looking at this change from the domestic sellers positions, It does seem fair and a benefit to domestic companies. Legitimate manufacturers using Chinese sourced parts should not be effected as they tend to buy in bulk and are already paying whatever import fees are applicable. On a selfish note, it might increase my ‘toy’ costs a little but it also avoids the situation I have experienced where a £20 item costs me £4 VAT but also £8 or £12 carrier paperwork fees ! Now I will pay the supplier £24 and that is it, no courier fee (hopefully).The subsidised postage in China remains a cause of annoyance to UK sellers however. How can an item be shipped from China to the UK and cost less shipping than UK to UK domestic post ?Fraser

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 03:41:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 03:21:09 pmIt's very simple, it's an international agreement, the seller pays postage for the item to get to the shipping centre and be processed, then the recipient country's mail service continues the delivery on receipt of the goods into the country.It's a reciprocal arrangement which means China pays the delivery from receipt to buyer.Royal Mail are the ones ripping us off. not the Chinese

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 03:42:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 03:21:09 pmWell, actually, the law which brought it into force on Friday was probably from the EU. We just didn't get the revision which pushed it back to allow sellers more time to get organised, which means we're now shooting ourselves in the foot internationally.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:04:48 pm
content: CJay,It may be “simple” but is it currently fair to domestic sellers ?The Chinese shipping is subsidised so we do not have a level playing field......https://www.ft.com/content/3af8bfb8-ad3a-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:07:00 pm
content: Good. I resent having to pay a third party so they can pay my tax for me with the only other option being the most expensive delivery method.Now I can choose slow 'n' cheap delivery for items that are not needed quickly without having to worry about extra mandatory charges being added and my item being held ransom until I pay (looking at you Royal Mail).These days I tend to choose DDP delivery anyway for that exact reason.Shame I will now have to pay tax on every crappy little item from JLCPCB or AliExpress but hey, prices are so low that 20% won't break the bank.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:08:41 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 04:04:48 pmAh good old British fair play.How many of those 'domestic sellers' are selling the same goods at a markup?How did they get them?

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:15:10 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on January 08, 2021, 04:08:41 pmI've lost count of the times I have found a product on AliExpress which is also being sold on Ebay, with a decent markup of course.Often, just to get it quicker, I have paid the premium and bought on Ebay. I don't mind though, there are costs and risk involved in getting a product to the UK and storing it until it is bought, then posting it.But yeah, they are the exact same products quite often.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:26:13 pm
content: Quote from: Microdoser on January 08, 2021, 04:15:10 pmIt's not the markup I object to, fair play to them if they can make a few quid doing it.The price difference between goods supplied by a UK seller and a Chinese seller dropshipping Alibaba stuff is going to remain pretty much the same percentage but the consumers of those goods will now be paying more for them, there'll be no more profit for the bloke who's running an eBay 'store' selling cheap Chinese stuff, all that extra money will go to HMRC, he might even have to put his prices up to deal with the extra admin required.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 04:51:10 pm
content: I noticed eBay had implemented changes for this when I ordered something from HK yesterday. Saw there was a "UK VAT has been added" (or words to that effect) statement on the checkout page.But either I'm going mad, or they screwed up...The item was listed for £5.63. But the checkout page indicated I was going to be charged £4.69, which is the amount that was indeed charged via PP.So... they list items inc. VAT, but show the exc. VAT price at checkout, where they specifically tell you VAT has beenadded, but then don't actually charge it.

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 05:35:17 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 03:21:09 pmIn Australia, the similar move was dubbed the "Gerry Harvey Tax" (Harvey was a prominent but certainly not the only businessman calling for such a move).And yes, it only catches the big fish. It also appears to give sellers yet another reason to misrepresent the location of goods.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 06:01:22 pm
content: In Russia (and the countries of the Customs Union), imports of less than 200 Euros are not taxed and are not declared.Guys in England, ask your politicians to join the Customs Union.

author: Canis Dirus Leidy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 07:10:25 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on January 08, 2021, 06:01:22 pmBasically, this is because of the COVID and quarantine outbreak. Normally, AFAIK, the duty-free limit this year should have been reduced to an EU-like 20 euros (and the infamous AKIT demanded that any purchase in a foreign store requires a license for foreign economic activity). Plus,many goods are considered "not intended for personal use", so you can buy a multimeter on Aliexpress or order a PCB from JLCPCB only because customs officers are not eager to comply with the law and carefully check every small parcel (unless blatant cases like old analogue oscilloscope with CRT).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 07:16:25 pm
content: HwAoRrDk,Interesting comment. I bought some new headphone ear pads and had exactly the same experience. They were charged at a lower amount than shown so I looked for a sellers discount offer on the auction but found none. Not sure what eBay were doing. Maybe the item I bought came from a UK drop warehouse and VAT was pre paid so eBay zeroed the VAT they had automatically added ?Update. I checked the auction and sure enough it says London as the location but likely a UK fulfilment warehouse for a China based seller.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Replacement-70mm-Earpad-Cushion-for-Sony-MDR-V150-V250-V300-Headphone-DC/293777079845?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649Fraser

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 07:50:54 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 07:16:25 pmQuoteThat's not even in the UK.

author: rcbuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 08:04:56 pm
content: We don't have VAT here. Each State, City, and County set their own tax rates. Some products such as food in some cities or states is not charged. Federal tax is added to some things such as gasoline and alcohol (drinking) products. And of course we have State and Federal income tax on our earnings.Sometime last year Ebay started charging State tax on every purchase regardless of where seller is located. This was because of a Supreme Court decision on a lawsuit brought by several States. So I pay Arizona State (but not City or County) tax on every Ebay purchase. I don't think Aliexpress charges tax but I haven't bought anything from there in over a year.As someone said, per International agreement China gets cheap (free) shipping to the U.S. because they are a "developing" country.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 08:06:46 pm
content: Monkeh,What makes you think my headphone ear pads were not dispatched from within the UK ?The headphone ear pads came from a warehouse in Hayes and were delivered to me by Yodel.The seller states "5 Days" shipping time with courier.Order placed: 02 January 2021Dispatched from Hayes (UK) warehouse: 03 January 2021Delivered to me by Yodel: 07 January 2021I attach a section of the tracking history. I have little doubt that the seller is in China but, as you may know, Chinese sellers use UK Warehouses to sell goods with faster delivery times. Whether the Warehouse stock has had UK VAT pre-paid, or how these Warehouses operate is not known to me.I might add that the replacement headphone ear pads for my Sony MDR-V150 headphones are excellent quality and fit perfectly. They are actually much better than the original Sony fitmentFraser

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 08:16:38 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 08:06:46 pmEven with the likes of Yodel, advertising a full week to get across the UK is just plain odd. I've bought various such items and every one of them has clearly been shipped out of China on demand and reshipped once here a few days later. A package that size can be with you in two days flat with the Royal Mail, and they're not the most competent bunch.Hayes, and Hatfield, are conveniently close to major airports (.. Heathrow, for example), and inconveniently expensive to have a warehouse in. How does it takethree daysto go from Hayes to Hatfield, exactly? Answer: It doesn't, it takes two or three days to get to Heathrow, and makes it up to Hatfield on the day of landing.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 08:22:23 pm
content: Monkeh,I do not disagree with you on the 5 days transit. I noted that the item was promptly dispatched with Yodel but they seemed to hold onto it for a few days before delivering it to me. It is almost as though it is a super economy serviceThe other possibility is that the dispatch tracking is misleading and Yodel were advised of the pickup but did not act on it immediately.Fraser

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 08:50:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 07:16:25 pmI don't buy much on Ebay, but my experience is that for Australia, they add GST (VAT equivalent) when the item location is anywhere other than Australia. If the item location is given as Australia, even if the seller is based elsewhere, no GST is collected (with no sign of being added and then removed).Even before our "Gerry Harvey Tax" was introduced, sellers often falsely claimed that items were located in Australia, probably to give the idea that shipping would be quick. Now, lying like that also means Ebay don't add the GST. Ebay don't seem to care about this, nor does it appear to be on the government radar.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 09:22:43 pm
content: delivery time means nothing, i recently bought a new cooker,i could either collect it an hour after buying it on line,pay another £20 for next day delivery or wait 2 weeks and get it delivered free.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2021, 09:24:43 pm
content: Quote from: themadhippy on January 08, 2021, 09:22:43 pmBecause that's equivalent to a small packet.

author: HwAoRrDk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 08:54:34 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 07:16:25 pmThe item was (and is) listed as being located in Hong Kong, so I don't think that's the case with mine. Delivery estimate is 16th February (although I suspect it won't be that long - a couple of weeks probably).I don't know what's going on.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 09:18:40 am
content: Quote from: Zucca on January 08, 2021, 02:44:28 pmActually, I have heard that Aliexpress charges Commiefornian sales tax on orders delivered to that state. So, apparently, they can be coerced into such things.I have been saying from day one that VAT is the real goal of all that crying about exploitation of the postal system by Chinese sellers, at least in Europe. Guess what, they will keep sending things by economic mail and your domestic mail will keep subsidizing deliveries of Chinese wares in your country, but the government will collect its due and all will be fine and dandy.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 11:25:25 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 08, 2021, 12:13:23 pmIf I read this correctly it means VAT needs to be paid on all packets no matter the value.

author: Oldtestgear
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 11:29:45 am
content: Many Chinese sellers on eBay have already registered with HMRC for VAT. They must feel that the extra effort is worthwhile. Also, if I plan to buy anything over the £15 limit from China it is only sensible to confirm their VAT status & NOT be hit with a hefty tax bill on import.Also if buying from Switzerland it is wise to ensure that the seller is registered for VAT. Often the difference in price between a Swiss seller & one in Chine is less than the import VAT & charges. There are a few sellers on ebay that ship from Switzerland rather than from the UK or EU. Now we are out of the EU it seems only right that any VAT we have to pay will go to the UK government. They are going to have to finance the massive public debt somehow.FWIWPhil

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 12:39:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 09, 2021, 11:25:25 amThat's what i read too.EU regulation to remove the VAT excemption for all packages, was supposed to start Jan-01-2021.But was delayed 6 month due to COVID-19, delaying the implementation in several member countries.So now is the time to stock up on "small thingies"/Bingo

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2021, 01:06:19 pm
content: I guess its just matter of time, that implosion is going to happen caused by self over taxing the people for almost everything imported until it reached breaking point ? While the country's real and tangible productivity and self-reliance at fundamental sectors were and are fading for decades and no sign of recovery, cmiiw.

author: petematthews
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 01:46:09 am
content: > Shame I will now have to pay tax on every crappy little item from JLCPCB or AliExpress but hey, prices are so low that 20% won't break the bank.Yeah, I don't have a problem paying the VAT, but my current issue is that JLCPCB have no intention of registering with HMRC (I mailed their support), and I don't blame them. The cost and hassle for the ability to deal with small-order UK personal stuff is not the most persuasive argument I've heardI've had the beginnings of a £38 order planned, but now it seems my options are:1 - Pay the RM delivery (~£3.90). This was my usual plan - I'm cheap and it's hobby, so I don't really care too much about timescalesHowever, I've been unable to find out what happens to sub-£135 packages that show up at ports/airports with no VAT paid. They won't have VAT collected by Royal Mail. My guess is returned to sender or destroyed. No real way of knowing. High chance it'll never arrive.2 - Pay for DHLs DDP service... This is apparently £35 on my order, which isn't really an option for me. I'll need a handful of bits from LCSC too, which is presumably a further £30 to DHL. It'll get here _real_ fast, but I honestly couldn't be less interested in that part. £45 spend suddenly comes in at ~£110, and I just can't justify that.Unless anyone has a PCB place they know is getting VAT registered, or another workaround, it looks like this has killed my hobby PCB fun. Which I'm pretty annoyed about, to be honest... Can't see a way round it though. I'm tempted to place a smallish PCB order with JLC just to see what happens... I'm guessing they're not checking _every_ package, etc., though I suspect it's still a risk on an order-by-order basis.And yes, it's not (directly) Brexit related, and the EU are doing this in 6 months too. The difference is that companies will only need to register once with the EU central VAT collection thing to sell into all member states, which is a substantially better incentive than tangling with HMRC just for the UK.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 08:38:06 am
content: I was going to say "I'm sure they won't care and it will go through as if the seller was under VAT threshold anyway", but then I read this...https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021Especially...Quote from: gov.ukThat's nuts. So me, a tiny one man band who has on very very rare occasion sold something low value to a UK customer, is required to register for VAT. Yeah, sod that. UK is off my xmas card list, and onto my shipping restrictions list.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 08:46:01 am
content: It's not about you, you are just collateral. It's about the fact that everything has been outsourced to China so the manufacturers cannot be taxed anymore. As long as it was being imported to Europe by "European" companies slapping their badge on it, the governments could at least tax the importers, but now that anyone can order direct, they are basically going to reach asymptotically zero income unless they intervene somehow. And all of that while the amount of free shit that sheeple want form the government keeps growing with no limit in sight.That's what the blind worship of capitalism, globalism and socialism gets you.Fun times

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 09:55:32 am
content: As i see it from a hobby perspective , and low price orders:I have no problems paying 25% VAT on my 16$ PCB's , but the $23 fee that DK-Mail wants for collecting $4 in VAT.That is prohibiting me to do continue.The JLPCB wants to keep the "hobby orders" , they need to figure out a way for me to avoid the $23 fee.The DK web shops are complaining about unfair competition , as low price china packets are not eglible for VAT (€10.5 limit here).But i pay $2 for an USB cable in china , and $14 in a DK webshop ... Thats a lot more than 25% - They're too greedy.They think they can begin to charge $14 for a cable again , but all that is going to happen is that Amazon will get "richer" , as i can get the same cable at amazon.de for 5..7$.Edit:The "Free postage from China" is almost gone here in DK , and i think the "china mail rebate" is fully gone within 1..2 years (fair enough)I usually select Aliexpress shipping anyways , as the stuff arrives within 2..3 weeks , instead of 5..8 weeks./Bingo

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:20:03 am
content: The regulations state that gifts up to £39 are exempt so instead I expect sellers to just illegally mark these as gifts of low value, which rarely get checked.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:33:34 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on January 10, 2021, 10:20:03 amIn EU ALL imports are VAT eglible after 01-Jun-2021Btw:The DK customs have done several checks of VAT fraud w. china packets marked under the DK limit.They found that more that 97% was below the limit , and legal.So the fraud isn't something they were concerned aboud.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:01:13 am
content: Enjoy while the good time last. If there is any subsidy for no Vat, is always on me, not on the overseas sellers at all. Cheap cost also mean I can take more risk, and iterations can be faster. Politicians or media like to distort the logic, and people do fall for it. Unless there is local manufacturers, buying from the local, just feed another layer of friction that perform no useful function. Many local sellers here, end up would not be able to survive unless they can value-add which many cannot, and do not bother to as well. But local landlords are especially happy if there are more friction add to any overseas trade. And landlords are the last people I would want to support. I know of many (almost all) don't reinvest on the rental income to other productive area, but always on overseas holiday before covid19.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:34:06 am
content: Quote from: petematthews on January 10, 2021, 01:46:09 amPersonally, I will either see the results of someone else ordering from them or make a small non-vital order and see what happens myself.If it is the responsibility of the sender to pay VAT then I will not get a charge, either it gets delivered or it does not.If I find that the item still gets delivered anyway then I will carry on as normal. If the item is returned to sender then I will adjust my purchasing habits accordingly, either by making larger orders from JLCPCB or getting the item from an Ebay reseller in the UK.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:55:08 am
content: In my opinion, the problem is not paying VAT, but rather the cost, delay and bureaucracy that will be involved in actually charging it.The reason that the EU post-poned this new rule to July was exactly because there was no way of actually handling it, especially with the increased purchases due to COVID.On the other hand, I am not that worried. Gearbest, Banggood and similar already offer purchases from their "EU stores", which are really just an intermediate at tax havens like Netherlands. They receive the package, put it in a new envelope and ship tax-free to the customer (EU to EU). Also, 23% VAT (in case of Portugal) on a 20 Euro purchase is irrelevant, if there are no further costs involved, which I do fear (handling, invoicing, VAT application fee, etc.).What really annoys me is how goverments in democratic countries (EU, US, etc.) are giving increasingly no shit about what the people who elected them actually want. And then they get surprised with a sudden raise of right-wing extremist parties.So we are living in a global economy.Big companies shift their production to Asia and their headquarters to Ireland (tax haven within the EU).They don't pay any tax, destroy local/regional labour.But it is the common citizen who buys a stupid Chinese gadget for less than 20 Euro, that needs to be taxed?Why not implement a global abolition on customs?Why not abolish VAT, one of the most injust taxes there is? Remember that poor people pay as much VAT as rich people!There should only be one single tax: a fixed percentage on the income. Period. If you make 100 Euro/month, you pay x%. If you make 10.000 Euro/month, you pay the same x%. Eliminate all the remaining tax laws and save on the whole finance ministry, which becomes obsolete. Every citizen needs to contribute with SOMETHING. Even those that are poor. And a fixed percentage already makes the richer pay more than the poor.So, in my opinion: screw customs, VAT and present goverements!Sorry for the rage.Vitor

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 12:32:28 pm
content: The problem is that the Chinese sellers note a value of US$ 1 on the customs declaration form to avoid VAT, despite the real value often exceeds the limit for VAT free imports. It's tax fraud, but a win-win situation for seller and buyer.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 12:42:33 pm
content: I have had my share of experience with Portuguese customs and I can tell you they are everything BUT stupid. They know exactly what these Chinese products are worth, they don't care for the sellers note of value and the standard practice is that the buyer needs to send proof of payment to customs, with a signed statement that all declarations are correct.The problem is that once your package is flagged for check, you can easily add another 4 weeks minimum until you can lay your hands on it.

author: DC1MC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 12:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on January 10, 2021, 12:42:33 pmThe same situation with the German customs, their eagle eye (pun indented) will not release anything that doesn't fit in a small envelope without personally coming to their offices with solid proof of payment. Also they are checking for "fake and counterfeit and non-CE approved products" and confiscate them on the spot, I've seen an Asian person in front of me leaving empty handed without his large bag of phones and toys, the poor guy was almost crying. The customs waiting hall in my town has even a display in the waiting area proudly showing their captures.Of course, one either have to go there and wait in queue, or, with Covid rules and public access mostly forbidden, pay the "moderate" 25-50 EUR service fee that carriers ask for doing the customs declaration for you to pay the 4EUR VAT.DC1MC

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 01:27:04 pm
content: It should be EUR 5 at least since there's an internal directive to ignore low value goods generating a VAT less than EUR 5 because the work involved is much more expensive. That directive increases the official EUR 22 limit to about 26.

author: petematthews
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 02:45:16 pm
content: So, thinking it through since last night, could you (non-fraudulently) do this with 2 eBay accounts...Prep your order at jlcpcb, get goods totalAcct1 creates a buy it now listing for the amount, declaring that it ships from outside the UKAcct2 buys it, pays, etc. This should include the vat thanks to eBay.Acct1 gets the relevant vat details for the packaging from eBayPlace order at jlcpcb, including the vat stuff as part of the addressYou now have a vat receipt from acct2 in case you need it as proof on delivery, collection, etc.Yes, you'll wind up paying eBay listing and PayPal fees, but that's probably less than the old royal mail £8 surcharge anyway... All in all, I'd be comfortable doing this from a legal and "I'm doing the right thing" angle.Only possible problem is eBay flagging stuff as potentially fraudulent. Might be worth finding other people willing to help you out - if anyone wants to trial this, I'm game.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 04:12:40 pm
content: I've checked the new VAT rules for buyers in EU countries buying from no-EU sellers (starting July 1st.). There are two processes available for goods with a value less than EUR 150 (for > EUR 150 the standard customs process applies, as before).process #1:- seller not registered at a EU tax office- seller doesn't bill VAT- seller must perform a simplified customs declaration electronically- mail service delivers the goods and charges VAT plus handling feeprocess #2:- seller is registered at a EU tax office- seller bills VAT- seller must perform a simplified customs declaration electronically stating his tax number- mail service delivers the goods

author: petematthews
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 10:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: petematthews on January 10, 2021, 02:45:16 pmActually, don't do this. While I stand by it as a creative problem-solving solution, it's apparently wildly contrary to eBay's T's&C's - They are watching, the will hunt you down and ban you. Hard. And your paypal account. And any other paypal accounts at your address, etc. Apparently it used to be used by unscrupulous characters to boost feedback scores. Which is annoying.Not sure if there are other marketplaces you could run a similar plan though. AliExpress seems to require you to be a registered company to be a seller.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2021, 11:42:02 pm
content: Quote from: petematthews on January 10, 2021, 10:31:11 pmYou could do it as not-a-scam by using a reshipper in China, get your PCbs shipped to the reshipper, reshipper ships to you (and charges you international shipping and the VAT and their service charge).Superbuy has made this post which seems to indicate that "if they are required to" then they will do VAT, but that they are not doing it unless they have to...http://bbs.superbuy.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=470199&fid=50&extra=page%3D1(Superbuy is both an agent who can buy from taobao, 1688 etc, and also you can ship stuff bought elsewhere, like a pcb fab, to their warehouse to be reshipped to you).

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 01:13:26 pm
content: I just received my first parcel from the EU since the changes. The parcel came from Germany and had the “VAT Paid” code as part of the second line of the address. It stated....“GB 365 6085 76 Code:Paid”A standard CN22 value declaration was attached to the parcel but I understand there will be a new declaration label issued, in the UK at least, to cover shipments to the EU.The purchase was via eBay and it appears that VAT was automatically included.I made an offer of £30 on an item that was being offered with free postage. The eBay transaction shows a cost of £25.86 plus £4.14 VAT so I did not pay additional VAT on my offer, it was considered part of the offer priceIn case anyone is curious about what I bought.... it was an order for two LAPC116A logic probe pods made for a Hantek/Voltcraft MSO, so £30 for two delivered to the UK was great valueNo additional VAT was requested upon delivery by Royal Mail.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 01:50:31 pm
content: The plot thickens........I just made an exact same offer to the same seller fir two more of the logic analyzer cables and the eBay offer entry page clearly states that the offer amount does NOT include VAT or shipping. I may be wrong, but that appears to have been added since My last offer to the seller. I wonder whether sellers now have ‘include’ or ‘exclude’ VAT and shipping for offers option in their profile or maybe eBay now exclude these as a matter of course? When I entered my £15 each offer for 2 cables, eBay added VAT to the total that I would pay.It looks like I got lucky with my first purchase wher VAT was considered a part of the offer.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 02:11:32 pm
content: Yep, confirmed..... my offer of £15 per logic cable, Qty 2, was just accepted. The total I paid was £36 as 20% VAT was added by eBay. Still a good price and sadly it appears the seller took the hit for VAT in the first transaction. Either that or it was an eBay error and they gave the seller the full £30 that I offered.Fraser

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 04:23:42 pm
content: It's all well and good if you're buying from eBay or Amazon. Shame about all the other businesses we're now not easily able to trade with and are losing out to the big players.What, for example, do I do if I want to buy something from Welectron? Pay them their 19% VAT, somehow claim it back, pay another 20% VAT and a processing fee when it arrives here? Yeah, that sounds stupid - hence why I can no longer do small business with them. Them and thousands of other businesses we're now either locked out of or being penalised for using.

author: petematthews
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 04:29:03 pm
content: Hold the phone - it's just one of the companies you may wish to deal with, but JLCPCBs site (my main concern, tbh) now has the following:United Kingdom 0~135GBP (VAT collected by JLCPCB)>135GBP (VAT collected by local custom)Fromhttps://support.jlcpcb.com/article/89-customs-duties-and-taxesSeems to imply they will be handling it. Might email their support folks again and see if I can get hold of someone who knows what's up.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 04:43:52 pm
content: Interesting, 135 GBP = 150 EUR, i.e. the EU limit for simplified imports (just VAT).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 15, 2021, 04:44:47 pm
content: Quote from: madires on January 15, 2021, 04:43:52 pmIt is, after all, merely an implementation of EU law.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 02:32:42 pm
content: So I ordered a few PCbs for a side project from China.The PCBs were 28 EUR, DHL was 33.Then just now, DHL charged 17 EUR for "Advance payment fee" and 11 EUR as import duty.I guess we can kiss goodbye to cheap PCBs.

author: artag
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 03:00:27 pm
content: Why couldn't the payment processor (paypal, or a credit card company) handle the VAT ?They could charge a fee that's lower than the post office - after all, the paperwork is going through them already.It makes more sense than the carrier paying it, when it's related to the payment cost rather than the transport cost

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 03:06:43 pm
content: As long as it's less than EUR 150 the PCB manufacturer just needs to register with an EU tax office, bill VAT, do the simplified customs declaration and transfer the VAT to the EU tax office. Additional costs for you: VAT.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2021, 03:17:55 pm
content: Quote from: artag on January 18, 2021, 03:00:27 pmEither the seller or the importer has to pay VAT. These are the rules.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2021, 09:23:12 am
content: Everything working as planned. Throwing a wrench into the system so that foreign sellers are forced to collect VAT, as the government cannot afford collecting it themselves.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2021, 12:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: petematthews on January 15, 2021, 04:29:03 pmPreviously, orders under £15 were not flagged or held by Royal Mail but orders over this were held ransom until the ransom money was paid, and a handling fee. Made an order last night to be imported into the UK. Selected royal mail delivery to test as time is not an issue.Order total £40.69Shipping £7.72Total £48.40No mention of VAT on the invoice. As you say, they say in their FAQ that they collect that.I will see what happens when delivery is attempted.If I can get boards under a total cost of £135 delivered with no extra costs then I know which delivery method I will now default to. This could be a better situation price-wise than before.If royal mail tries to claim double VAT, I will point them to the FAQ on the webpage of JLCPCB and say that the VAT has already been taken and that any irregularities should be addressed directly with the seller.Worth a try.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2021, 12:28:44 am
content: It's still a mess as far as I can see, Online Marketplaces are required to collect VAT, yet there has not been enough time/information for everyone to do so.Some who have tried to register, have been told they don't need to, or hit a dead end in the website where is doesn't allow the registration to be completed.Tindie still haven't managed to sort it out.https://discuss.tindie.com/t/so-do-we-stop-selling-to-the-uk-now/173679Feel free to give your politicans hell for this, they deserve it.Removing the <£15 VAT free imports, at the same time as all the Brexit related issues with customs, ports and shipping was a really dumb move.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2021, 11:19:26 am
content: Quote from: station240 on January 20, 2021, 12:28:44 amIndeed, but you have to admit, the current set of Tories are very consistent in that regard. You know that whatever they do will be immensely stupid, and also give a fair chunk of money to their chums.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2021, 01:00:14 pm
content: Quotenot much point as we all know the reply will be along the lines of " waffle, brexit, bluster, jonney foreigner,dodgy statistics, covid ,more waffle ,records show how good we are, incomprehensibly mumbling, its labours fault"

author: alpher
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 02:07:20 am
content: https://youtu.be/ar_7Z-MzPv8

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 03:18:22 am
content: On similar subject I hate that they make sales tax so complicated and require sellers to handle taxes for every jurisdiction. They should treat an online store the same as a physical store, you should only need to collect tax for your own jurisdiction. When someone shops online it should be equivalent to if they came to your physical store. In the states there are 10's of thousands of different tax jurisdictions for example, I don't even know how sellers are expected to handle all that. The amount of legwork is just insane. How is it even normally done?

author: tycz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 05:02:23 am
content: Just in case anybody is interested: I've sent four packages from Australia to the UK this year so far. Two with a value of less than £15, the other two were somewhere between £15 and £135. They have all been delivered now and none of the recipients were charged any taxes/fees by the courier company (they were sent DDU).

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 09:14:27 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on January 21, 2021, 03:18:22 amBut they are.If you buy something abroad (say, a laptop in the USA), and you try it bring it into the EU (in your cabin sized baggage), you shall declare it on the border, and pay VAT and import duty on it. You may also reclaim the sales TAX in the USA, if you can find a seller, who even would understand what a foreign customer is (or a debit card).This isn't different.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 09:36:36 am
content: Maximizing tax revenue and competing with other jurisdictions is mutually exclusive, I'm afraidBut hey, look at all the free stuff you get from the government

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:19:26 am
content: The UK Royal Mail has historically charged a £8 handling fee when collecting VAT and other customs fees on behalf of HMRC. Of course a lot slid through that should have been charged for, because of false value and 'gift' declarations by suppliers, which is one of the factors that led to the loss of the <£15 VAT free import exemption.I can only suggest that suppliers should consider charging a reasonable handling fee, hopefully a small fraction of £8 for the costs incurred in collecting te VAT on behalf of HMRC. I bet that suppliers will need to hedge against unfavorable exchange rate movements as I strongly suspect HMRC wont settle for less than the VAT in GBP at moment of purchase even if the supplier's native currency has dropped against GBP by the quarterly settlement date, but will quite happily accept any overpayment.To fix it so the *CUSTOMER* pays the VAT on small imports without a disproportionate handling charge is difficult! Theoretically there could be a government website that let you enter your delivery address and either prepay VAT or enter your (authenticated) VAT number, and generate a one-time valid QR code that you could send to your supplier. On receipt of a parcel with a VAT QR code, customs would scan it, enter the declared value, and either a sticker with 'VAT PAID' or 'Recipient VAT REGISTERED' and the delivery address (so if the supplier attempts to scam HMRC by using a different possibly VAT registered customer's QR code, it doesn't reach the intended recipient), or a sticker with 'VAT of £nn.nn to be collected on delivery, would be printed, which would leave you at the tender mercies of Royal Mail or the courier company's VAT collection fees. However that would require a government competent in commissioning large IT systems on time and within budget, which most governments are bad at, and the British government is historically absolutely incapable of, + considerable initial investment which the current government is absolutely unlikely to do given their anti-China stance.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:22:42 am
content: Story from the BBC today......Brexit: 'I was asked to pay an extra £82 for my £200 coat'https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:27:43 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 21, 2021, 10:22:42 amQuoteThat's a mayor win for the UK's well know coat business.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:47:57 am
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 21, 2021, 10:22:42 am...and probably end up paying VAT twice, very unlikely EU seller has adjusted their system to exclude a local VAT for UK (non-EU) buyers

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 11:13:03 am
content: I feel we shall see more and more of this as the true effects become clearer regarding the position UK consumers now find themselves in.We have just cut ourselves out of one of the largest free markets in the world.Now all that trade will not be free.

author: bodger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 02:13:06 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 21, 2021, 10:22:42 amCan someone explain how they came up with a figure of £82? For a £200 coat afaik it should be 20% VAT + 2% duties + £8 handling fee so that would be ~£52.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 02:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 21, 2021, 10:22:42 amBut Maude, 87, of Clovelly, North Devon, knew exactly what she was voting for!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 03:31:10 pm
content: Quote from: bodger on January 21, 2021, 02:13:06 pmUPS charge £15, VAT will be on the item, shipping,and duty.So assuming the actual price of the item is £200, and the duty is 2% (I'll take your word on that), and shipping was, say, £18, that gets you to £281.40.

author: bodger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 04:39:57 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 21, 2021, 03:31:10 pmI didn't realise the limit for the processing fee was as high as that (£15). The 2% duty figure was just what I could roughly remember the last time I read up on it - the correct figure is 2.5%. But the total makes more sense when factoring in delivery charges, most things I've purchased have been below the £135 value so did not incur a VAT charge on delivery.Hopefully, the one good thing that comes out of this is I no longer have to worry about incurring a customs charge when buying PCBs between £15-£135, which was a real pain in the butt the last time DHL made the delivery.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 05:10:33 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 21, 2021, 03:31:10 pmWhich is proof that HMRC and the politicians that set VAT rates are no better than a bunch of thieves as a significant proportion of the shipping cost will have been incurred for services provided outside the UK yet there is no reduced VAT rate on incoming international shipping.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 06:20:37 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on January 21, 2021, 03:18:22 amI assume they must have a massive tax database. For instance, when buying from Amazon recently, the amount of tax to be charged changed when I updated the delivery address to the next city over. It wasn't random either, I could watch the tax amount change when I switched back and forth between address A and address B in adjacent zip codes.I agree it's insane. Is Amazon really putting all the collected sales tax into the right buckets and then forwarding the revenues to thousands of individual cities, counties and states across the USA?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 06:23:38 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on January 15, 2021, 04:23:42 pmShouldn't the free trade agreement mean you pay VAT in Germany and then the goods are shipped tax paid to the UK? As I understand it there should just be a customs declaration to be completed by the seller.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 06:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 21, 2021, 06:23:38 pmNo. That's what we gave up!

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 08:28:22 pm
content: Helpful article on the new UK VAT rules in various scenarios.......https://www.dlapiper.com/en/us/insights/publications/2020/12/uk-vat-changes-sale-of-goods-to-customers/From what I can tell the UK HMRC has decided that all imports to the UK, including those between private individuals are liable for 20% VAT. There remain some Zero VAT rated items such as books etc. It would appear the same will be true for EU me beers when they change their rules on 1 July 21.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 08:30:00 pm
content: Helpful discussion on the eBay community. Well worth a readhttps://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Buyer-Central/Is-there-now-20-VAT-added-to-EU-purchases-I-noticed-this-morning/td-p/6835255Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 08:34:14 pm
content: eBay seem to be having some issues applying the new VAT rules and even started adding 20% VAT on UK to UK transactions ! Details here.......https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/VAT-added-to-items-I-have-for-sale-in-UK-seller-to-UK-buyer/td-p/6848957Be observant when buying on eBay to make sure no inappropriate charges are being added to the purchase price.Fraser

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:14:54 pm
content: It looks like a complete mess to me. I foresee it being very difficult to buy things from overseas and have them shipped to the UK in the future. Many foreign sellers will decide it's not worth doing the paperwork to comply with the rules.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 10:59:49 pm
content: A well known, and sadly, often true story.......The PlanIn the beginning, there was a plan,And then came the assumptions,And the assumptions were without form,And the plan without substance,And the darkness was upon the face of the workers,And they spoke among themselves saying,"It is a crock of shit and it stinks."And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said,"It is a pile of dung, and we cannot live with the smell."And the Supervisors went unto their Managers saying,"It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong,Such that none may abide by it."And the Managers went unto their Directors saying,"It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide by its strength."And the Directors spoke among themselves saying to one another,"It contains that which aids plants growth, and it is very strong."And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents saying unto them,"It promotes growth, and it is very powerful."And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him,"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigorOf the company With very powerful effects."And the President looked upon the PlanAnd saw that it was good,And the Plan became Policy.And this, my friend, is how shit happens.This version of the story was copied fromhttp://web.mnstate.edu/alm/humor/ThePlan.htm

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 11:13:36 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 21, 2021, 10:14:54 pmI massively disagree.A relatively poor and tiny (business wise) seller, who only sells a few dollars of transistors from China. Sells some transistors for £0.10, to someone in the UK.Now, the £0.02 worth of VAT can be collected by him. Ok, there is several pages of horrible paperwork, and they have to make an account on the UK Gov website and it takes them around 30 minutes or a few hours.BUT the UK Gov gets their £0.02 (tuppence).This is completely fair, and means the giant companies like Amazon, Apple, Google etc. Can continue avoiding paying £99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 in taxes each year.Completely fair

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 11:35:03 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 21, 2021, 10:14:54 pmOn a more serious note. I agree with you, completely. I've sort of mentally resigned myself, to probably not buying much, from international markets, such as China.At least until this current situation (VAT/paperwork, not Covid), settles down and hopefully get resolved.I'm a bit annoyed the international supplier is given the duty (ignore pun) of documenting/collecting the VAT and maybe the duties.I suspect this new policy (which seems to really come from the EU, rather than the UK, I suspect). Will back-fire.They want huge amounts of paper work to be filled in, because someone buys a £0.99 pack of small electronics from a small Chinese seller, who is making pennies, or not much more, on each sale.Maybe what would have been much more sensible, is to make the imports completely free of VAT and duties, as long as below some big number, such as £1,000.But, introduce a new paypal/payments-system, charge of some sensible percentage, such as 7.5% of the paypal total costs. If it is outside of the UK (or EU, depending on where you are).Then it would be really easy for everyone. No paper work or anything.Getting the foreign sellers to have to do stuff like paperwork, for the EU/UK tax affairs, on low value items, such as £0.99 is probably not the best of choices. I suspect.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2021, 11:43:26 pm
content: I still can't see how, when a package arrives in the UK, they can determine whether or not VAT has been paid on it by the shipper.It _could_ in principle be done by the shipper having to register the transaction online when shipped, and get a unique code that gets put on the package as a QR code that's scanned at import, but I suspect they are nowhere near being able to implement that any time soon.But even then it still sets the dangerous precedent that a seller has to register and account seperately to every single country they ship to, which would be a nightmare.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 02:15:19 am
content: Quote from: IanB on January 21, 2021, 10:14:54 pmMarketplaces (eBay etc) and couriers (as they do already) will take care of the paperwork for small sellers but that cost will be passed on in the total price seen by buyers. Someone has to pay for the tax collecting expenses and the governments have realised it would be a loss making exercise to them so its been hand-balled to the sellers.As people keep repeating, the sensible approach (for everyone other than the bureaucrats employed to do this work) has always been a tax free threshold somewhere between several hundred and several thousand dollarpounds. These disproportionate reporting/documentation requirements artificially increase the cost of small international transactions and entrench the existing models of large distributors (who love their unsubstantiated markups).Quote from: MK14 on January 21, 2021, 11:13:36 pmGotta love their answers in the press about this which always comes back to the doublespeak "we pay exactly the amount of taxes that we have to".https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangementCompletely indecipherable to the general public.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 02:39:45 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 22, 2021, 02:15:19 amAs I see it, someone in the UK earns (probably applies to most countries),£20,000 a year, and pays a ball park figure of £5,000 a year in taxes.A small business earns £200,000 a year, and pays a ballpark figure of £50,000 a year in taxes.A huge PLC company in the UK, earns £20 Billion a year, and SHOULD have paid a ballpark figure of £5 Billion a year, in taxes.But instead pays a team of experttax avoidancetax accountants, £10,000,000 pounds a year, implements some tax heavens (like you linked to), and other changes to how they account for their earnings/profits/losses etc.Hence paying only £50 million in taxes, instead of the ballpark £5 billion, they should have been paying.Legal: Yes.Morally acceptable, fair and good for society: Maybe not.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 04:56:13 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 21, 2021, 11:35:03 pmIsn't the real solution what they are already doing: requiring eBay and the like to collect the VAT?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 06:49:25 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on January 22, 2021, 04:56:13 pmIt's the wrong end of the supply chain. There's a 100+ countries in the world, and every seller in every one of 100+ countries is supposed to open an account with the revenue agencies of 100+ other countries, calculate and collect one of 100+ correct tax amounts depending on the customer's address, and then remit the proceeds to 100+ agencies afterwards?It's nonsense.Revenue should be collected when the goods are received, not when they are dispatched. If someone sends you a package from China where VAT is owed, you should simply have to go to your local Post Office, pay the VAT over the counter, and collect your package.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 07:10:12 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on January 22, 2021, 06:49:25 pmBut that's exactly what eBay does - they collect from the buyer, when they buy (and give the money to the country that the buyer lives in).The buyer and seller don't have to worry about anything other than Customs and Shipping if the transaction is done through eBay.An obvious improvement could be if eBay also collected Customs charges on behalf of the country the buyer is in... that way, nobody has to worry about anything, the price plus shipping gets clearly defined up front, everybody happy?

author: Nauris
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2021, 08:48:48 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 21, 2021, 11:35:03 pmI took some time and read some EU papers and this is totally different than how EU intends to do this.EU legislation works like this (from June 2021) :1. It is an OPTION for non-EU seller/marketplace to register for IOSS scheme to prepay VAT. (needs tax representative in EU)It is very clearly stated that this is not mandatory.2. Post/Courier collects it (and charges an fee)3. Regular way (at the customs)So basically you can collect VAT and then your products don't need to wait at customs -> fast delivery, happy customer.But if you don't want to bother that is fine also but then your customer needs to wait more and pay the handling fee.I think it is rather good approach. Ebay, Amazon etc with big volumes will surely register to make shopping easier but smaller outfits can just leave it to the post/courier like before.https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/vatecommerceexplanatory_28102020_en.pdf

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2021, 01:56:59 am
content: So a little looking around finds this:https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/1376/contentsE: And as they slowly trickle updates, that legislation is revoked so now I need to figure out what replaces it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 01:09:15 pm
content: The latest story on the VAT surprise .......Brexit parcel price shock: 'I had to pay £30 for a gift'https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55752541It appears many thought that VAT between UK and EU countries was not going to change. There will be many who are surprised by the addition of VAT as confusion surrounds the EU UK free trade deal.We always paid VAT in the past though, it was just the VAT of the country we bought from that was part of the buying price. The issue occurs if the seller includes local VAT in the price then adds additional UK VAT on top so the buyer pays VAT twice !The other issue is VAT now being added to all used items imported into the UK so your simple eBay purchases from outside the UK just got 20% more expensive despite being personal P2P transactions or gifts over £39.Such is life I suppose.... Death and Taxes, Death and TaxesThere were always going to be some negative consequences to leaving the EU and such should have been expected. Theoretically, there are positives to offset such negatives though. The changes to the VAT system in the UK on 1st January have been a surprise to many though.Fraser

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 01:17:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 26, 2021, 01:09:15 pm"I was shocked, because I thought that with the Brexit deal, this wouldn't happen," hesaid.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 01:28:16 pm
content: Yes it is early days and the nightmare that was the BREXIT negotiations has many confused about what was actually agreed in the end. It is not always in the interests of Politicians to tell the public “the whole story”I suppose the additional VAT will help to pay towards the massive Coronavirus debt that we will have though so it is just additional taxation in time of need. Someone has to pay for all the outgoings of our country after all. Paying as you spend on imports is likely fairer than an increase in ‘across the board’ taxes. They may still come of course!I certainly would not want to be the Chancellor during these very challenging times !I told my wife that a sensible way forwards would be for all countries leaders to get around the table, decide how much Coronavirus has cost to date per country on average, project short term future inoculation costs and come up with a figure that is the “Coronavirus write-off”. Then every country is allowed to print that sum of money or add it to their countries reserves. If all countries do it, no hyperinflation and no crazy debt to worry about. Maybe I should run for UK PMFraser

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 02:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: Nauris on January 22, 2021, 08:48:48 pmSorry for the late response. Somehow, I missed your original reply, until the thread got posted to again, today.To a reasonable extent I agree with you.I expect that eventually thinks will settle down.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 02:16:12 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 26, 2021, 01:09:15 pmUnfortunately some sellers have problems understanding VAT. If an EU seller send goods to a buyer in the UK, he doesn't have to bill VAT:https://www.accountancyeurope.eu/publications/vat-customs-duty-and-brexit-prepare-now

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 03:21:48 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 26, 2021, 01:09:15 pmYes, the EU based sellers now have to treat the UK as an export - which is of course more hassle, so many sellers choose to leave the price alone and pocket the difference as a fee for the extra processing!QuoteeBay and Amazon in the US collect sales tax on all transactions now, even used stuff sold privately.In a way, this has now given an advantage to smaller sites that don't do that.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 03:27:29 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 26, 2021, 02:02:21 pmYes, but it will settle on a generally higher price level (for UK consumers). As I noted above, sellers of small items are not going to bother with VAT refunds etc. in most cases, it's just too much hassle.The price of freedom, innit?I know several UK sellers that work that way too - i.e. an international customer gets to pay the UK price including UK VAT, and seller does not refund that VAT. Talking about VAT refunds would only be entertained for bigger ticket items.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 03:43:23 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on January 26, 2021, 03:27:29 pmNot necessarily higher, possibly lower prices, in a number of cases.Hypothetical example, but hopefully typical of what eventually happens. I just don't know the details and which countries will be involved:Before Brexit, buying ebay US items in the UK, could have meant. Very high postal charges, big VAT/Duty bills, and big administration fees from the delivery company, plus possibly delays.So, there could be powerful trade deals now, e.g. with the US.Which could then mean, greatly reduced postal charges, easier/reduced VAT/duty (i.e. Tariff free or reduced), and hence no extra delivery charges or delays.Possibly wishful thinking on my part, thoughBut let's see.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 03:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 26, 2021, 01:09:15 pmI'm still waiting to hear any well thought out theories of positives, let alone any indication of actually seeing a positive.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 04:01:47 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on January 26, 2021, 03:21:48 pmThey can't keep the local VAT. If they bill VAT they have to pay/transfer the VAT to their tax office.

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 26, 2021, 05:42:46 pm
content: Quote from: madires on January 26, 2021, 04:01:47 pmWhen you buy something via eBay, the price in the listing does not contain a separately billed VAT element. In the US, eBay adds sales tax to whatever the listing price is, whether or not that listing price included VAT.So, for example, if a US buyer purchases from a UK seller, they will pay whatever the price seller listed at (which may include local VAT if he is registered). Then, they will get dinged again with US sales tax.Good luck contacting the seller and asking for a VAT refund!This same situation now applies to residents of the UK - think of it as your contribution to sovereignty, which is priceless, so you really got a bargain!

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 02:44:33 am
content: Yah, it is a problem paying other country VAT with no certainty of getting the money back, or have to go through a lot of hassle to get back. For MUST have item, I shall take the risk and go through the pain. BUT almost all the time, I did not proceed after a moment of mental struggle. On too many occasions, I did not do the final check out for my items from UK sellers.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 07:11:57 pm
content: Quote from: SilverSolder on January 26, 2021, 05:42:46 pmHistorically it has been the case that if I were to buy something from Amazon.uk and give a delivery address in the USA then the price charged would exclude VAT. If delivered within the UK then the price would include VAT.I have not checked whether Brexit has changed that.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 09:12:46 pm
content: The issue of VAT (and possibly DUTY) being applied to imports to the UK from the EU was discussed on the BBC "The One Show" evening chat program today. One thing that was mentioned that caught my ear was the case of a person buying some £300 shoes for a discounted price of £70 from the EU and getting clobbered for VAT, Duty and Processing Fees by the courier. Apparently the value of the item dictates whether the VAT is collected by the seller or courier .... sounds simple except that the "value" is the RRP and not a discounted price ! That meant the shoes were considered to have a value of £300 when it came to who collected the VAT. The courier charged a large chunk of money for paperwork fees. Something to be aware of. Thankfully the VAT is charged on the amount paid and not the notional RRP Value !Fraser

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 09:49:23 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 27, 2021, 09:12:46 pmAnd don't forget, Customs officers have the power to assign notional value to anything - no matter what the paperwork says. E.g. if they think the Lamborghini Countach you are importing with a declared value of $45 doesn't sound reasonable, they can always up it!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 10:39:53 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on January 27, 2021, 09:12:46 pmThat's nonsense, the value of the goods is the price paid.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 01:40:38 am
content: I agree, but that is what apparently happened

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 07:57:20 am
content: The VAT and DUTY were to be expected as part of brexit. What suprises me more is the likes of M&S not knowing of the country of origin rules. I knew them, yet their professional buyers were cought on the hop.But my biggest complaint is the eBay search engine still thinks the UK is in the European Union. With the extra charges, unless the item is less than €22 inc P+P, buying from France, German etc is far cheaper.

author: petematthews
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 09:32:10 am
content: In case anyone else is interested, LCSC (cheap components supplier) have confirmed via email they will be dealing with UK VAT, which is greatQuoteWoo! Thanks folks

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 12:42:28 pm
content: Well here is one data point:Ordered £115 of parts from Whitebox Labs in Switzerland + paid for standard postage, during checkout I was told that I would be liable for local taxes and normally these parcels are held back by Royal Mail until tax is paid (along with their £8 fee).Parcel was delivered this morning without any issues, saving me about £30.Currently, in transit are some PCBs from JLCPCB who said in their T&Cs that they pay tax under £135, so I will be interested to see if that also is delivered without any problems, but more importantly without extra cost.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 12:54:47 pm
content: Small update, the circuit boards I ordered from JLCPCB using their cheap n slow postage have arrived and are at my local delivery office waiting for me to pick them up, it seems nobody was in when they tried to deliver (rubbish, we were totally in)Unlike previous times I have used Royal Mail though, there is no card asking for VAT nor a charge for doing so.The era of cheap boards, at least currently, is still here and has become cheaper:Merchandise Total: ￡40.69Shipping Charge: ￡7.72Order Total: ￡48.40And that is it. No tax, no fee for collecting said tax either. On their website, JLCPCB do say that they will collect tax on orders up to £135. It seems Royal Mail think that too.Just noticed that their numbers don't add up either. I cut and pasted them from my order and the total is a penny short...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 01:12:14 pm
content: That saving of a £8 paperwork fee can be a real bonus and it is far more than £8 with many courier companies. I paid £12 to Parcel Force for Customs paperwork and I think UPS are charging £11. From memory FedEx charge a high paperwork fee so I used to avoid them.Fraser

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 01:29:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 07, 2021, 01:12:14 pmExactly. Previously the same order would have been £66 (with their £8 fee and £10 for the tax)Hopefully this is the way things will be moving forward.

author: bodger
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 02:01:46 pm
content: Hopefully, this is also true for DHL deliveries. It was a right pain when I used to order over the £15 limit. Now hopefully I don't have to worry about orders under £135 being held back till customs is paid.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 02:49:57 pm
content: The other issue I have had is my parcel being delivered by the courier and no fee demanded at the time of delivery. Then a week or so later I receive a letter demanding payment of VAT and the paperwork fee. One courier company tried to hit me for VAT and paperwork fees a week after delivery on an item from Turkey. The accompanying documentation clearly detailed that it was a P2P purchase. I enlightened that courier company about the VAT rules active at that time. P2P non commercial = no VAT was due. They never contacted me again.Fraser

author: vad
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 03:20:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 08, 2021, 12:14:08 pmMarketplaces like eBay will automatically collect VAT, based of shipping address.About a year ago they implemented similar thing for sales tax collection if the US:Let say I’ve sold used lens on eBay for $2,000, and the buyer is in Kirkland, WA. The buyer will be charged $2,204. Of those, $130 is collected Washington state sales tax, $0 is King county sales tax, and $74 - Kirkland city state tax.I, as a seller, after being ripped of by eBay and PayPal, will get $2,000 less $220.40 eBay final fee (yes, they compute final value fee on tax too), other eBay fees if any (placement fee, various marketing fees, purchase of discount shipping labels, etc), and $64.22 PayPal fee (they charge PayPal fees taxes too).So at the end:Buyer pays $2,204Seller gets not more than $1,715.38 into their PayPal accountWA revenue office gets $130 directly from eBayKirkland city gets $74 directly from eBayPayPal pockets $64.22eBay rips off the seller $220.40+As a seller, there is no way to evade sales taxes

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2021, 04:40:01 pm
content: Quote from: vad on February 07, 2021, 03:20:42 pmAnd the funny thing is, sales tax is collected on used stuff too, e.g. selling a dilapidated old pot or pan or piece of rope now attracts sales tax, which was never the case in the past - imagine charging sales tax at a garage sale!This is simply a downside of using "Big Tech" to sell your stuff. Perhaps smaller web sites will have a renaissance, since they can now be cheaper than Big Tech?Shopping locally, without all kinds of people insisting on having a cut of the deal just for existing, is making more and more sense...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 05:50:02 pm
content: Quote from: bodger on February 07, 2021, 02:01:46 pmVAT is calculated for the product, shipping charges and any other charges.Meaning that you are practically never below the 15 GBP limit, since the shipping with DHL is more than that.

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2021, 06:17:01 pm
content: The customs office blooper of the year.This guy ordered an €50 clockradio in Japan and was charged €73000 because the customs estimated the value of thepackage as €300000 without opening it(Dutch audio only but with the above explanation there should not be an issue)https://www.sgxl.nl/eddy-zoey-73000-euro-pakketje

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2021, 02:16:30 pm
content: If i see eddy zoey name i know its a joke by him that moron he is.He opens a can of fish for a tv show, places a dobber that is to big to fit inside and he complains and send it back, he wanted the free stuff for his tv show, crazy person, dont believe anything of him.

author: Microdoser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 12:46:26 am
content: JLCPCB have changed their order page.All orders are now DDP (pre-paid taxes) including the royal mail option.

author: tycz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 02:38:15 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on February 08, 2021, 05:50:02 pmIn my experience, the de minimis for customs is from the goods value only. Maybe some carriers are charging tax on the shipping cost, but this could only happen if the goods value is already above the threshold.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 10:47:41 am
content: OK, so instead of complaining, I think I should take action.Does anyone know a freight forwarder in china, that can forward packages and take care of taxes? So basically DDP. They should also operate in the small package region, so I want to use them for packages that are 25 EUR in value, so their overhead cost should be reasonable. Package combing would be nice.I've checked the superbuy, but they seemingly dont offer DDP, only offer fraud on the declared value -> not cool.

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 03:17:41 pm
content: If you order ali they pack together also if you order the same day.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2021, 11:08:53 pm
content: Quote from: Jan Audio on February 14, 2021, 03:17:41 pmYes and no. Even if you buy everything from the same seller, you sometimes end up with different small packages, because it is already packaged. And recently, he standard shipping is terrible, 30-50 days. I would like to just package orders from JLC, Elecrow, Aliexpress, LCSC and so on into one package, pay tax (without 17 EUR processing fee from DHL), and DHL it to Europe.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 12:41:41 pm
content: More guidance on the post BREXIT changes from the BBC....Brexit charges: Why is my online shopping more expensive?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55841048Note the issue relating to when Duty is also charged. Something made in China and over £135 in value could be liable for both VAT and Duty. The same may apply if it is a China made product sold by an EU based seller. I think this may always have been the case but people are getting nasty surprises when ordering on line from outside the UK these days.Fraser

author: SilverSolder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 18, 2021, 01:58:45 pm
content: I guess all this was printed on the underside of the bus that everyone has been thrown under?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 06:14:36 pm
content: So I was just checking JLCPCB for a price.They have DDP shipping option to here, Europacket (DHL).Happy to see. Duty+tax in my calculation is 22% of the PCB + shipping, so not a large fee.

author: kaz911
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2021, 07:00:50 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on January 22, 2021, 02:39:45 amThe ONLY people you can blame for valid tax deductions are the people in charge - aka the politicians you have elected to office. You can't blame companies for following the law - no matter how bad it is written - intentional or not.Holland makes a great living out of hosting tax havens.Ireland makes a great living out of BEING a tax heavenUK have some tax "havens" - but nowhere near as heavenly as the 2 aboveThe only way to get rid of all the "unfair" taxations and deductions is to have a tax system that does not allow for tax deductions.I hope once in the future we will have a blanket 20-25% tax for all with no deductions. Maybe a minimum profit deduction (so don't pay tax of the first XXX.XXX amount) - but no other tax deductions allowed apart from "normal" . That would benefit the "small businesses" or "people" while everyone would be paying a fair tax.--But when you look at it from another side - without the tax specialists - a lot of companies would end up paying far too much in tax. I know from an expert in the family .. that a lot of tax avoidance actually stems from countries creating really bad and punitive regulations for "external" companies - but then end up opening up cans of worms that defeat the objective the regulator had.India is a prime example of a country where you as external investor have to be more than careful about how you invest not to be taxed on repatriated profits at a rate HIGHER than the actual repatriated profit. So your profits might be 1000 - but you would totally be taxed 1100 - as both the Indian company is taxed on the "repatriation" and the shareholder is taxed on receiving the money - ending up in a total tax of 110% (or more)Normally the core principle in tax across borders for companies is you only pay tax once. So if you reside in the UK with your business and own a branch in Spain - then you can deduct the part of tax paid in Spain on the profits on your UK tax bill - as it is already paid. That arrangement creates some stupid scenarios as well. But the smart people have not found a solution yet - and if it was not like that - it would be hard to open a branch in a foreign country - so the foreign country would not get the investments they want (which then insure local hires, salary and tax etc)So it is not easy - seen from either side.But blaming anyone but the politicians is not really fair. So do not blame companies for the mistakes of bad government employees writing the laws.But every single new extra law makes the system more complex - and the more complex the system becomes - the easier it becomes for really smart people to pay less tax.