Multimeter and soldering iron advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 01:59:36 pm
content: Hi, i'm getting in the electronics world, and want to get myself a nice multimeter. I don't want a cheap crappy one, i want something that will last and has all the safety faetures needed. I looked at Keysight's lineup, and i'm interested in their U1230 series. The base model(U1231A) unfortunately doesn't have current measuring, while the more expensive U1232A has current measuring. I think the U1232A would be a good choice, because current measuring is a feature I'd want to have. Now, is there a comparable Fluke meter at this price point? I would like to stay under 200€. Is that Keysight a good choice? Do i need the higher end model(U1233A)?For soldering irons, i took a look at JBC's lineup of irons(not stations) and i noticed that the gas model they have might be a cood choice because it has adjustable power and a "mini heatgun" mode too. That would save me some money since i won't be buying a dedicated heatgun. is that mini heatgun enough for IC soldering/desoldering? It is cheaper than the adjustable electric model too. Is this iron a good choice for electronics? Which tips do I need?Thanks in advance!

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 02:11:44 pm
content: You didn't say what exactly you want to do so I'll just talk in general. Skip the Fluke/Keysight expensive meters. You could go for a brymen 235 if you intend to play around with mains. Even something like a Sanwa CD771 would do for ~55 euro. Not sure about the availability of hakko FX-888D in Itally, I'd check for that instead. For electronics a cheap used scope would teach you more then an expensive dmm.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 03:11:54 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 01:59:36 pmWatch Keysights turn to dust (literally) over in the 'robustness' thread. They don't do well in joe's tests, either electronicallyormechanically.(You don't need to watch all of the second video to get the story. At the start of the video there's a nice clicky sound as the switch turns. After a couple of seconds the video cuts to somewhere near the end of the test and all that's left of the clicks is a dirty grinding sound...)Thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/Look for messages around the same dates as those videos were uploaded, around last November I think

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 03:34:50 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 01:59:36 pmYes. The Fluke 17B+ did well in joe's electrical testing and survived the mechanical test with almost no signs of wear. It's fully CAT rated and has fairly decent feature set for EE work.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 03:44:45 pm
content: If you ask me, you're going overboard with this!For a beginner (and even for a pro for that matter) there's really no need to invest large amounts of money over big brands.Now, to be product specific, here are my recommendations:Multimeter - You've got the ANENG AN8009 (on Banggood) for $18.99, I wouldn't use it for mains or anything, but purely for electronics, it's a great beginners meter! Or if you want something with better input protection, you've got the UNI-T UT139C for $40 (on fasttech).There's also the much more expensive Brymen BM235 multimeter, but I'd say that'd be over the top.Multimeter Silicone Test leads - You've got these two at affordable prices:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fieldpiece-ADLS2-Deluxe-Silicone-Test-Leads-Gold-plated-probe/262456124890https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Silicone-Gold-Plated-Test-Leads-Probes-for-Multimeters-CAT-IV-1000V/171162377470Soldering Station - On the affordable range, there's the various T12 compatible stations, also the TS100 soldering iron, and the HAKKO FX-888D station.Heat Gun/Hot Air Station - You could buy an adjustable (or dual temperature) heat gun for $20-30, however, it'd be big and not the most comfy to work with for electronics use. You'd be best getting one of the 858D/8858 hot air stations for $55-70

author: witnessmenow
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 03:45:42 pm
content: I really like my TS100 soldering iron, It's about half the price of the Hakko in Europe, it heats up super fast and it also turns off if you forget about itMarkoReps has a good video on it:

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:05:06 pm
content: Quote from: RayRay on January 09, 2018, 03:44:45 pmI agree, but he wants a 'nice' meter.My 2 cents:a) One meter isn't enough for anybody.b) A meter that doeseverythingis expensive but two meters that cover all your needs can be quite cheap.eg. A $42 Fluke 101 for "safety" needs plus one of those cheap Chinese meters as a) A second meter, and b) For the things the 101 doesn't do, eg. current.Both together will cost you about $65, delivered.FWIW: My favorite cheapo Chinese meter is the ANENG AN860B+, YMMV.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:22:49 pm
content: Thanks for the very quick and detailed replies!The reason why i loooked into expensive meters is that i had very bad experiences with cheap meters and irons. I had a 10€ meter that was faulty the first time I used it(display) and a soldering iron that worked for like a month and then stopped melting solder. Is there any reason to go for a 150-200€ meter or is it just a waste of money?For the soldering statiom, i have an hard time finding those 50€ models here in Italy. Is the 60€ gas iron from JBC not appropriate or not worth it?I usually make circuits and repair motherboards

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:27:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2018, 03:11:54 pmWhile Joe's tests are welcome and valuable information, I don't think they're representative of what a meter typically encounters in the field.The 17B+ isn't a true RMS meter, which I wouldn't recommend for a beginner. Something like a Brymen BM257S has a lot of nice features that are useful and a bargraph and optional datalogging, which the BM235 lacks. SuperGiachi is in the EU, which means the Brymens can be had cheap, while Fluke and Keysight are relatively expensive.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:31:19 pm
content: I don't agree with the advice to go with a cheap Chinese meter. A beginner needs proper protection and safety. If you're more experienced, you know where to be careful and where you can be more lax, but a beginner doesn't know what the pitfalls are yet.Considering SuperGiachi states he can afford a proper meter, I don't see any reason to recommend anything that's not properly safe.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:22:49 pmNo more of a waste than a $50,000 car. If you've got $50,000 to spare and want a nice car to go shopping then go for it.Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:22:49 pmOTOH youcango too cheap. Some meters aren't worth having at any price.(including some much more expensive ones)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:43:50 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 09, 2018, 04:27:52 pmI almost never measure AC voltages, YMMV.Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 09, 2018, 04:31:19 pmThat's why I said to get a Fluke 101 as a primary meter and a cheapo meter as secondary.

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:44:05 pm
content: I wouldn't get a gas iron as my main iron. To carry around in the toolbox maybe, tho I'd rather have a cord one. Chinese hot air stations are super cheap if you need one. Batterfly store has the Hakko.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:51:26 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2018, 04:43:50 pmIf you have a signal generator or work with sound signals there's plenty of AC signals to be measured. It's also something that can catch out a beginner and therefore should not be part of a beginner meter.I can't quite agree with having a proper primary meter and a cheap secondary one. You need to be very concious when you use which one and in what cases you can't and a beginner needs a robust meter that always works. Having a second meter isn't a bad idea, but not at the cost of hampering the first one. Get one solid meter, then consider a second. For a 200 euro budget, you could buy a BM257S and a BM235. You'd have two very solid and reliable meters, though I don't necessarily insist on going with Brymen.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:57:33 pm
content: Why wouldn't you go with a gas iron as your main iron? For the refill time?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 04:58:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 09, 2018, 04:51:26 pma) Is a very accurate TRMS value really so important? Signal generators output sine waves too.b) Be careful: Many TRMS meters aren't as accurate as you think they are as the frequency rises (not even at 'low' audio frequencies).c) An oscilloscope is a 1000x better tool for that. The 140 bucks you just saved on your multimeters is 40% of the price of a new oscilloscope...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:57:33 pmYMMV but all the ones I've owned get too hot and burn up the tips in no time.This consigns them to toolbox use only.Plus, yeah... you don't want to be messing around "refilling" something that's on your bench.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:05:34 pm
content: Ok thanks to allWhat kind of tips do you recommend getting? Would a JBC electric temperature controlled iron be better that chinese stations like hakko etc?What alloy do you usually use?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:13:56 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:57:33 pmGas irons don't have temperature control. The better quality electrical irons have a temperature sensor and adjust the power according to the heat load on the tip in order to keep the temperature close to what you set it at.Also electrical irons can be turned on and off at the flick of a switch, and the more expensive ones have auto-off and auto-standby features. Gas irons are fiddly to light and switch off again. They are good for occasional jobs out in the field, but not suitable for daily use on the bench.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:15:42 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 05:05:34 pmHakko is a Japanese company and is one of the leaders in the soldering iron business - and one of the well known good brands in the lower price brackets. If you're asking about solder alloys, 60/40 is perfectly usable, but 63/37 is recommended by many because it's almost the same price and has an advantage when initially cooling. Make sure it's small (usually 0.4mm is recommended, but 0.8mm or smaller should do), and make sure there's a rosin core (it's extremely rare to find an electronics solder without it or something comparable). Also worth picking up a flux pen or a bit of paste or gel flux, it helps you make good connections quickly.I wouldn't cheap out too much on the multimeter, but these things have been evaluated and reevaluated all over this forum, search around a bit and check the main threads (one lists DMMs in a spreadsheet, one is robustness testing) to get an idea for what's out there and what sort of meters would be a good choice.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:19:32 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:22:49 pmThere is inexpensive and then there is too cheap. I would not buy an expensive meter as your first meter since you will very likely end up buying a second meter after you discover the things you don't like about the first meter. So it would be better to pick a good, but not too expensive meter as a starting point given that you are certain to be buying a second meter later on.

author: RayRay
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 05:34:53 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 04:22:49 pmSounds like you've went too cheap!And if you ask me, it'd be a waste of money.And I definitely wouldn't use a gas based iron for electronic works.Anyhow, let me give you links to all the gear:Multimeters (Aneng AN8009, Aneng AN860B+ and UNI-T UT139C respectively)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------https://www.banggood.com/ANENG-AN8009-True-RMS-NCV-Digital-Multimeter-9999-Counts-Backlight-AC-DC-Current-Voltage-Tester-p-1216900.html?rmmds=searchhttps://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10045104/9620280-aneng-an860b-true-rms-digital-multimeterhttps://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002748/6659300-uni-t-ut139c-handheld-true-rms-digital-multimeterAmong these, the UNI-T has the best input protection (but that part is not critical if only using it for electronics)Multimeter Test Leads-------------------------AIO Kit with different needle options & aligator clips-----------------------------------------------------------https://www.banggood.com/P1300B-12-in-1-Super-Multimeter-Probe-Replaceable-Probe-Clamp-Meter-Test-Lead-kits-Alligator-Clips-p-1131634.html?rmmds=searchSMD Probes--------------https://www.banggood.com/ANENG-SMD-Chip-Component-LCR-Testing-Tool-Multimeter-Pen-Probe-Lead-Tweezer-p-1223234.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNSilicone Test leads---------------------https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fieldpiece-ADLS2-Deluxe-Silicone-Test-Leads-Gold-plated-probe/262456124890https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Silicone-Gold-Plated-Test-Leads-Probes-for-Multimeters-CAT-IV-1000V/171162377470Personally, I like the Fieldpiece better.Soldering Iron & Accessories-----------------------------------The TS100 Iron -https://www.banggood.com/MINI-TS100-Digital-OLED-Programable-Interface-DC-5525-Soldering-Iron-Station-Built-in-STM32-Chip-p-984214.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN12V 3A Power supply for the iron -https://www.banggood.com/RunTeng-YCOL668-3A-30W-3V-4_5V-6V-7_5V-9V-12V-Power-Adapter-Supply-Charger-p-1228356.html?rmmds=search&ID=3426&cur_warehouse=CNSpare Tips (price is per single tip!):https://www.banggood.com/MINI-Original-Replacement-Solder-Tip-For-TS100-Digital-LCD-Soldering-Iron-p-984215.html?rmmds=searchFlux -https://www.banggood.com/NC-559-ASM-TPF-Flux-Anti-Wet-No-Clean-100g-Cream-AMTECH-Solder-Paste-p-975156.html?rmmds=search0.5mm Solder -https://www.banggood.com/6337-0_5mm-Tin-Lead-Rosin-Core-Soldering-Iron-Wire-Reel-p-946006.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN(100G)0.8MM Solder -https://www.banggood.com/6337-0_8mm-Tin-Lead-Rosin-Core-Flux-Solder-Soldering-Welding-Iron-Wire-Reel-p-992684.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN(50G)Solder Assist Tools -https://www.banggood.com/BK-120-6-in-1-Solder-Assist-Repairing-Tools-Set-for-Cellphone-Electronics-p-1105969.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNSoldering Iron Tip Thermometer -https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-FG-100-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Thermometer-Temperature-Tester-0-700-p-952899.html?rmmds=detail-bottom-alsobought__5&cur_warehouse=CNPro'sKit SN-390 PCB Holder -https://www.banggood.com/ProsKit-SN-390-PCB-Holder-Printed-Circuit-Board-Soldering-and-Assembly-Holder-Frame-p-1120181.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNSet of tweezers -https://www.banggood.com/6Pcs-BGA-Precision-Golden-Sanding-ESD-Tweezers-Set-Stainless-Steel-Anti-static-Tweezers-Repair-Tool-p-1148734.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNSet of prying tools (for opening things that don't have screws, such as monitors, cell phones etc) -https://www.banggood.com/7-in-1-Phone-Repair-Tool-LCD-Screen-Opening-Tool-Plier-Suction-Cup-Pry-Spudger-Repair-Kit-Set-p-1114870.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNHot Air Station-----------------https://www.banggood.com/YIHUA-8858-220V-650W-Portable-LED-BGA-Rework-Solder-Station-Hot-Air-Blower-Heat-Gun-p-1074475.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNhttps://www.banggood.com/YOUYUE-858D-220V-700W-ESD-Soldering-Station-LED-Digital-SMD-Solder-Blowser-p-984174.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CNOne is more portable than the other, both are good choices though.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:04:08 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 05:05:34 pmI'd go for Ersa. According to my own experience the tips last much longer than JBC's. Stay away from cheap Chinese soldering iron because the tips are likely crap. Believe it or not but the quality of the tips make or break a soldering iron.Hot air is also nice to have. So far I have no complaints about the Atten 858D+ I have but I must admit I have not used different hot air stations so I don't know what I'm missing there. OTOH hot air is hot air so there is not much to screw up.Regarding the DMM: it depends on what you want to do with it. Have you considered getting a bench DMM so you don't have to change batteries all the time? I have a Keysight 34461A and two VC8145s. The VC8145s are my daily use DMMs for low voltage stuff (electronics development). The VC8145 are relatively cheap (around 160 euro from Ebay), start quickly and work well. For portable and mains use I have a Keysight U1241B.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:09:53 pm
content: nb. A lot is made of 100.0000% safety in these forums but remember that even those Chinese meters mentioned here (AN860B+/AN8008) havesomeprotection. A realistic rating for them might be CAT II 300V which is "household mains AC, away from the distribution panel", ie. very very unlikely to do anything dangerous on the average hobby electronics workbench.I'd get something safer if I was poking at AC mains on a daily basis but I don't agree that they pose much danger as a hobbyist's secondary meter (or even as a primary meter if you mostly poke at 5V Arduinos, etc).(so long as your 'hobby' doesn't involve big voltage multipliers with huge capacitor banks)Quote from: DaJMasta on January 09, 2018, 05:15:42 pmYep. You can consider yourself fortunate if you own a Hakko.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:26:02 pm
content: Which kind of hakko would you reccomend?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 06:30:19 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 06:26:02 pmOne with a twisty analogue temperature knob. The digital ones are pretty but far less practical.(I know, I own one)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 07:22:30 pm
content: But how is the availability of Hakko tips in Europe? I used to have a Hakko clone (unfortunately) but the tips where hard to come by.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 07:30:04 pm
content: From reading through your questions about soldering equipment I think you could use a good basic course on the subject. Dave did an excellent 3 part series some time ago. This is the first video:links to the 2nd & 3rd will be in the previous video. Watch them a few times each and I think 90% of all your soldering questions will be answered, the rest will come with practice. As a hobbyist, I have the Hako 888D and like it a lot for a $100 USD station.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 07:52:32 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2018, 06:30:19 pmI have a Hakko FX-888 and I am very pleased with it, but I always found it lacked thermal mass for the large PC motherboards and other GND planes.However, to help with this I just found out they sell a larger hand piece calledFX-8805that seems to have a larger thermal mass when compared to the standard FX-8801 that comes with the FX-888. This makes a nice addition to this model - although it is an expensive one. Oh well... Perhaps SWMBO could get me one for my birthday...

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 07:56:05 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 09, 2018, 07:52:32 pmI have found using the largest chisel tip helps a lot with this. When using it on something that sucks the heat out the station goes to full power and I have been able to heat up a whole banana plug/solder cup or largish sheet of copper to solder melting temperature.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 08:03:20 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 09, 2018, 07:52:32 pmEvery soldering iron has its limits.On an analogue iron you'd twist the knob to the right to get the full wattage and faster heat transfer. On the FX-888 you have to press some awkward sequence of buttons which I can't remember.Quote from: IanB on January 09, 2018, 07:56:05 pmYep. You have to transfer the heat out of the iron as fast as possible to keep the heater at 100%.If it's something you need to do a lot you might consider something more powerful though, eg. hot air, which heats up a whole area.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 08:31:34 pm
content: Turning the temperature up is bad practise! There is no substitute for using the right sized tip. From what I've seen many people use tips which are way too small and just crank the temperature up to try and compensate but usually the end result is a ruined PCB.

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 08:44:35 pm
content: for sure there are several topic in the other section of the forum. I agree with ntcnico, turning up temp is not recommended. it is much better to use the FX-888D with the preset mode so you can move quickly between favorite temperature based on the work you want to do.be aware all soldering station are calibrated with the standard tip, when you change the tip (smaller or bigger) you are supposed to calibrate it again to get the best temperature accuracy. Hakko still offer a "analog twist" soldering station called FX-950, it fits T15 tips and they are very high performance but also more expensive then T18 (15 Vs 5 euro)

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 08:46:49 pm
content: You can use a preheater of some kind.I have a digital hot plate that has a large slab of uniform heat - it can heat up the work piece so that it takes less heat from the soldering iron to get it the rest of the way there.I also like the fx-888d

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 09:32:18 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2018, 08:03:20 pmI agree. I didn't say there wasn't but I was pointing a fact about such popular station.Quote from: Fungus on January 09, 2018, 08:03:20 pmAs others have said, not quite a great idea. I would rather try to keep the temperature as steady as possible by other means instead of exposing the area to thermal stress caused by the 100+ of °C of variation.Quote from: IanB on January 09, 2018, 07:56:05 pmThank you, that is what I have been looking for. I got a T18-D32 to put this in practice at the next opportunity.Quote from: cdev on January 09, 2018, 08:46:49 pmThat is a good idea as well. I have a cheap heat gun that I may eventually turn into a PCB pre-heater.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2018, 11:43:17 pm
content: I'm a big fan of Fluke and Hakko personally. Sure there are other good options, and yes Fluke in particular is expensive but I use my multimeter almost every day, I've had it for years and I plan to keep using it for many more years. Spread out over the total time of ownership and the amount of use it gets, the ~$300 I paid for my 87 is peanuts.When looking at soldering stations be sure to check out the cost of consumables. I have an old Edsyn soldering station that works well but tips are harder to find and a lot more expensive than Hakko tips. Weller is another reputable brand that I've had good experience with. With any of these watch out for fake Chinese clones, especially Hakko.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 02:50:38 am
content: Ditto on the Hakko fakes, YouTube is loaded with stories. I made sure to buy mine from a registered Hakko dealer. I also wish they still made the analog version, but I am still happy with mine. As for DMM's, I have had a RadioShack true RMS meter for a good 15 years that has been accurate and 100% dependable. No need to spend any more than $75 for a decent meter for a beginning hobbyist. Right now I would probably buy a decent Brymen and a cheaper 2nd meter. Really should have 2. Use the $ saved toward a scope, but that's another argument

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 04:20:34 am
content: The "946C" model preheater I found seems to typically be sold for at least $25-30 more but I actually found it searching for "digital hot plate" or "electronic hot plate".Although they don't seem to be selling the same item now, ebay seller 'imagicnest' has a lot of soldering tools.You can find a lot of lab heaters for around $50 which will get a board hot enough. Lab hot plates can get quite hot and can be precisely controlled.So I would consider buying one of them. You can probably find one for $35 if you look on the used market. Corning makes some nice ones.You'll find the blue one I have if you search for "946C Electronic Hot Plate" "946 Precision Electric Heating Preheating Plate Station for BGA SMD PCB 110V" or similar.Apart from the bright blue my preheater looks a bit like a Hakko 853 preheater without the built in vise - I have to use my own metal stick vise, which then heats up with the work so once the PCB is attached, I have to turn it off and wait a few minutes to remove it.But, - its surface is fairly large, its accurate - and it didn't cost$1700!My main concern was that it wouldn't smell, and it doesn't.It's quite well made. I paid very little for it compared to what some sellers ask.Quote from: rsjsouza on January 09, 2018, 09:32:18 pm

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 06:03:12 am
content: Hakko quit making the analog model? That's irritating, I hate pushbutton digital controls for things like that. If it has to be digital then a rotary encoder is the way to go.

author: simone.pignatti
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 08:18:03 am
content: yes and if I remember correctly is from 2011/2012

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 01:31:37 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on January 10, 2018, 06:03:12 amMaybe when the warranty on mine expires I'll look into adding a rotary encoder. Maybe by then someone will have done all the leg work for me

author: newbrain
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 01:59:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 09, 2018, 06:04:08 pmQFTA small sample of Ersa durability: I had, a long long time ago (1978?), a pencil 15W Ersa soldering iron.The iron is long dead, but its tip has been transplanted on two other (cheaper) irons - with some mechanical effort.The last iron with that tip is still in my tool box (in Italy). The tip coating is still as new: we are talking about 40 years.I now have the Hakko FX-888D. If used in the preset mode (look for the magic key sequence to switch the mode) the UI is perfectly fine, after all who really needs a continuous temperature regulation? For 99.5% of my use, three presets are enough and you can have up to five, IIRC.For the Hakko you could checkBatterfly: no shipping fees to Italy.I got a very good service from them: courtesy (I asked to hold my delivery for some days as I went to an unexpected business trip) and quick delivery (when I was back) of my Hakko + Rigol scope.As for DMMs, I have an UNI-T 61D, Euro version:not recommended(I should have known better), an excellent Fluke 87-V, (only because I was able to get it new for ~220€, with a Fluke IR thermometer thrown in -I still suspect a webshop malfunction), and am waiting for the 121GW (in March...).I would probably go for a good Brymen, as other suggested, in your position.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 05:21:28 pm
content: What about hot air? The hakko 888d only has an iron. What should i get for hot air?

author: lem_ix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 06:06:06 pm
content: Get a cheap Chinese one, the most popular model being the 858 from various vendors. Browse the forum for more info, anything professional is substantially more costly.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 06:25:06 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 10, 2018, 05:21:28 pmI like my Aoyue 852A++ - I have a black version (they sell now an updated silver version). It is well built and its circuitry does not pose any life threatening risks. A discussion about its capabilities ishereand you can see it in action in.Other stations may be more up to date, but in the past there were a few not quite well built: an interesting discussionhereabout issues with Atten and a short reviewhereabout Xtronic.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 09:14:46 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 10, 2018, 05:21:28 pmDo you want something cheap or something solid? If you want something solid, the Quick 861DW. It's incredible value for money and according to many it outcompetes much more expensive kit from Weller and Hakko. If you want something cheap, it doesn't really matter much. There's numerous options that are fairly similar.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2018, 10:47:02 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 10, 2018, 05:21:28 pmWe've got some politicians you can have...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 09:58:56 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 10, 2018, 10:47:02 pmThe problem is getting them to stand still for long enough.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 01:27:14 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 10, 2018, 09:14:46 pmYou might want to look at the Quick 957DW. I just got one, much better than the Yihua 858D that I have. I paid $82 USD from Newark and it came with 3 nozzles. The hose is a bit stiff but still a nice bit of kit.Quote from: Fungus on January 11, 2018, 09:58:56 amThey won't knowing their constituents might want to use them for target practice.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 02:19:30 pm
content: Quote from: GreyWoolfe on January 11, 2018, 01:27:14 pmI'm not aware of how the Quick 957DW is rated. I know the Quick 861DW is loved by many, but am careful to translate that to other models of the same brand.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 02:23:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 11, 2018, 02:19:30 pmIt all comes down to how many hours a day you're going to be using it. Those Yihua stations are cheap and quite well regarded for light-to-moderate use.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 11, 2018, 02:31:36 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on January 11, 2018, 02:23:55 pmIt does depend on your use case, yes. Though I have learnt my lesson after buying a well regarded Aoyue soldering station. I've had nothing but trouble with it. If I paid myself a moderate wage for all the time lost I'd easily have been able to buy myself a very nice top brand station. That's a mistake I won't repeat. Even when I'm just having a bit of fun tools need to do their job.

author: SuperGiachi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2018, 07:46:55 pm
content: What about ERSA's icon pico and icon nano? Are they worth the money?

author: ferdieCX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2018, 08:07:05 pm
content: I have an Ersa icon-2 and I am very satisfied with it. The soldering iron in the smaller icon use the same tips.I bought my Ersa 30 in 1971 when I was 13, and it still works

author: J Jones
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 14, 2018, 12:27:54 pm
content: Metcal just brought out a High Thermal Demand upgrade. Very impressive. The MX-5200 is pricey but has been worth the investment for me because I damage less boards by whipping off components too soon and pulling tracks AND get more success because there's less chance of dry joints on a gnd plane. And of course I can attempt things otherwise impossible with other irons. For example:

author: tkamiya
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2018, 12:44:55 am
content: I have more than a dozen multi-meters. My favorite is an analog meter from 1970s. Back then, I used to use meter as an indicator to get rough idea. It wasn't an instrument to get an accurate absolute value. On the other extreme end, I have an HP digital 6 1/2 that has been professionally calibrated. It will give me the value when that's important. I also have a clamp meter combo that I take into attic, and I also have cheap disposable kind ($<20) for working with unknowns.The point I'm trying to make is, there is no such thing (for me) as THE nice meter. I wouldn't take my HP that's most accurate to my attic to do mains work. I also won't use analog meter to get a precise value on high impedance circuit. But if I want to see a trend, analog meter is the best. So I am kind of against the notion there IS a meter that's best.If you are starting out, there is no reason to assume you'll be using it to work on high voltage or extremely low voltage. It's not likely there would be a need to distinguish 5 volt and 5.1 volt. Then, any meter around $50 will do. Then as your needs change, you should start adding, not replacing.As to soldering irons, here, you will want to buy something good. I like Hakko, and you could get one for $100 or so. I also have a Chinese made ESD safe kind. I paid something like 80 dollars and it's quite good. I wouldn't use Radio Shack type or anything you'd find in harbor freifght type stores. These will make soldering job much more taxing. Soldering gun is a no-no for electronics work. That's like taking a machete to work on ship-in-a-bottle project.

author: arekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 01:40:00 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on January 11, 2018, 02:19:30 pmHad Quick 706W and it was garbage. Now have Quick 861DW and Quick 202D and these are very, very nice. Totally different league than 706W, so indeed, be careful.

author: ciccio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 02:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: SuperGiachi on January 09, 2018, 05:05:34 pmJBC temperature controlled (and also not temperature controlled) irons have a really stiff mains cable that is really annoyng in use.Buy an Hakko station or a clone. They have a low voltage ion that has a more flexible cord.Don't buy a gas soldering iron:it is not temperature controlled, and the torch/hot air will easily burn your PCB.Alloy: 60/40 from a reputable manufacturer: I use Loctite (Multicore) Crystal 502 (leaded) 0.7 mm diameter, for most of my work.Best regards