I recommend choosing a combo oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 08:43:20 am
content: Hi everyone .I would like to get a bench oscilloscope with the least possible footprint at a rather low price but of acceptable quality.if there are combo models that also have the function generator and spectrum analyzer even better.advise me please?bye thank you .

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 12:07:55 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on February 10, 2021, 08:43:20 amThere's at least three unknown variables in that sentence.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 01:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 10, 2021, 12:07:55 pmI think the biggest one is the one that you didn't count: oscilloscope

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2021, 04:27:51 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on February 10, 2021, 08:43:20 amIf you could find something that met all those requirements, roughly what would be your budget or budget range?

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 07:30:09 am
content: maximum 500 euros

author: Berni
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 07:31:45 am
content: Quote from: arivel on February 11, 2021, 07:30:09 amGood luck getting brand new standalone spectrum analyzer for that price. Let alone one built into a scope.If space is a problem get a compact Rigol and for that sort of budget area look for RF gear like spectrum analyzers on the used market.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 08:53:21 am
content: Quote from: arivel on February 11, 2021, 07:30:09 amFor a tiny bit more money you can get a Micsig:https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-STO1104C.html(It's what I use...)Or there's a 2-channel version for 100 Euros less:https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-TO1152.htmlnb. The micsig works perfectly well without the knobs/buttons, it's gesture controlled and very fast/intuitive. It was designed to work without the knobs/buttons. The version with buttons/knobs only came afterwards to make traditional scope users happy.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:09:16 am
content: For 500 Euros a spectrum analyzer is not happening along with a scope and a function generator, but if you meant FFT rather than SA it’s possible. The choices will take you down some decision trees including 2 channel or 4 channel scope, and integrated function gen or standalone function gen. Siglent and Rigol oscilloscopes are the likely conventional scope contenders but there are others. Also there is Micsig as Fungus pointed out. Another possibility is the Analog Discovery which if you don’t count the computer and monitor space will have the smallest footprint. Member rstofer will fill you in on that.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:39:54 am
content: Pretty nifty:https://youtu.be/io-hutQ83oYhttps://youtu.be/NtEt8Zc8oVA

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 09:55:45 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 11, 2021, 09:09:16 amYes. If you have a PC in the area then the Analog Discovery 2 is definitely the "smallest footprint". It also has signal generator and quite a good spectrum analyzer ability thanks to the 14-bit ADC.You should probably get the "Pro Bundle" which has BNC adapters and probes. The price has gone up a lot this year and availability is still very limited due to COVID.https://store.digilentinc.com/analog-discovery-2-pro-bundle/You can download the AD2 software for free and use it with your sound card input to get an idea of what it does. The oscilloscope isn't as good as a real bench oscilloscope but it's a very useful all-round tool.https://store.digilentinc.com/software/digilent-waveforms/nb. The 100Mhz sample rate of the Analog Discovery makes a big difference to the resolution of the spectrum analyzer compared to a sound card.

author: ResistorRob
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 11, 2021, 06:47:31 pm
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 11, 2021, 09:09:16 amI looked into getting an Analog Discovery a few months back, and they were sold out everywhere. Glad to see they are back in stock. Good recommendation for someone that wants a lot of functions built into one compact unit.

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:19:23 pm
content: Does micsig have all three functions integrated?oscilloscope, function generator, spectrum analyzer?i went to read but i find no references on this.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 12:31:42 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on February 12, 2021, 12:19:23 pmNo function generator.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 04:18:44 pm
content: If we assume that oscilloscope FFT functionality is as close to a spectrum analyzer in the 500 Euro combination budget as the budget permits then you have to decide how to get the function gen capability included with the scope. With some scopes you can get the FFT and the function gen integrated but sometimes (if you can give on the footprint) it makes as much or more sense to add another box and use a separate function generator.For the smallest footprint and maybe the lowest total price for scope with fft and function/signal generator capability the Digilent Analog Discovery 2 is hard to beat. But for maybe about the same price you could go with an entry level Siglent or Rigol scope and add a separate entry level function gen. Or for a little more than the AD2 you might be able to find a conventional scope with a built-in function gen. Or you could add a separate function gen to a Micsig. In addition to prices and sizes you shouldconsiderthe performance specs, the features provided (especially the User Interface), and alsoyour future expansion and upgrade path. Sometimes test equipment purchases are “one and done” but not always. Some folks prefer a Swiss army knife and some prefer separate tools. Some have both. Some have multiples. Search for “TEA.”Sounds like among the contenders you should look at are:1. conventional scopes (Siglent or Rigol) with a separate FG2. conventional scopes with built-in FG3. Micsig with separate FG4. Digilent Analog Discovery 2 (there used to be an AD 1)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 06:12:59 pm
content: I'm not 100% sure whether the spectrum analysis option can be enabled in the GW Instek GDS-1054B. If it is possible then it is a cheap way to have spectrum analysis capabilities in a bench scope.I'd always go for a seperate function generator just due to the limited amplitude range of built-in function generators.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:35:05 pm
content: With some of the examples below you should be able to meet your budget spec, then you can throw any you find interesting into the mix for consideration along with Micsig and Digilent Analog Discovery.These are just some examples (probably some more good ones out there).Example of integrated combinationhttps://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1074Z-S-Plus/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?v=0Examples of scopeshttps://siglentna.com/product/sds1202x-e/https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-u/https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1202Z-E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?rrec=truehttps://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1102Z-E/Digital-Oscilloscopes/https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1202B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/Examples of generatorshttps://www.sainsmart.com/products/uni-t-utg932e-function-arbitrary-waveform-generatorhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/30M-60M-2CH-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Generator-Pulse-Signal-Frequency-Counter/114018986535?hash=item1a8c0faa27:g:5xIAAOSwclFd-Etghttps://www.ebay.com/itm/FeelTech-FY6600-60MHz-Function-Arbitrary-Waveform-Pulse-DDS-Signal-Generator/224175589326?hash=item3431e807ce:g:UiQAAOSwbVJfJ4tDhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/FeelTech-FY2300-Dual-Ch-DDS-Arbitrary-Waveform-Signal-Generator-0-20Mhz-200MSa-s/193525689466?hash=item2d0f07ac7a:g:GgUAAOSwXnVexQZahttps://siglentna.com/product/sdg830/https://siglentna.com/waveform-generators/sdg1000x-series-functionarbitrary-waveform-generators/https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DG822/Function-Generator/Like nctnico I'd lean toward separating the scope and generator, and I'd try to go for two channels (rather than just one) on the generator. How many channels you need (2 vs 4) on the scope, and how much bandwidth you need (for the scope and generator) are other choices worth considering.As you narrow down your requirements and interests folks here can help you examine tradeoffs if you have particular questions. Enjoy the shopping process!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 07:40:09 pm
content: I'd list the Feeltech 6900 instead of the 6600 unless you have good reasons to think the older model is better.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:40:40 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 12, 2021, 07:40:09 pmI don't have an opinion on the 6600; it's just an example of an entry level generator. I think there are lots of threads here for the OP to sort through on the FYs. The 6900 might be the winner among the FYs. I'd pick the scope and then go for the best of what fits the budget on the generator.Edit: Added FY6900 to examples listed in post above

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:55:42 pm
content: For signal generator get this:https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=utg962

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 08:56:47 pm
content: The bigger questions are why the signal generator? Do you need bode plots?If so, the Analog Discovery 2 wins again.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2021, 09:19:03 pm
content: Pretty good overview of the AD2:I think if the specs meet the requirements and if someone likes software more than knobs and buttons, it's pretty compelling.fwiw, I have one sitting here and I use a conventional scope and generator and another LA 99.9% of the time - but I've learned my criteria don't represent everyone's criteria. Different horses for different courses and different riders.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 03:39:10 am
content: Quote from: Berni on February 11, 2021, 07:31:45 amDon't know why you say that. I can get you a spectrum analyzer that runs on your PC using the existing hardware. No? If you have scope like hardware, it's not so hard to use it as a spectrum analyzer.QuoteDid he say he wanted RF frequencies? Not so many people work in RF.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 03:47:27 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 11, 2021, 08:53:21 amDo they have a cover for the speaker to mute those annoying touch sounds? I guess a long sharp object will do. What is the name of the tool they use for lobotomies? If it doesn't work on the scope I can fix the problem by using it on myself.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 07:30:18 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 03:47:27 amIt's an Android tablet, it has a volume control.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 08:04:45 am
content: Quote from: Electro Fan on February 12, 2021, 09:19:03 pmYep, but that's because youowna conventional 'scope and signal generator as well.The AD2 isn't as good as a "real" oscilloscope. The UI can be cumbersome, eg. a drop-down list to set the vertical range? Ew! (I've written to them about that one...). You have to be much more methodical when you use it, it's no wonder you reach for the conventional 'scope for quick jobs.OTOH it can do alotand if you're sat there coding on an Arduino or whatever then the vertical range might only change a couple of times a day so the drop-down isn't as important.FWIW: The absolute best oscilloscope UI is on the Micsig.

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 08:39:28 am
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 03:39:10 amNaming FFT function of 7bit ENOB scope as spectrum analyzer is blasphemy. Thus confusion between those who know what real spectrum analyzer is and those who don't. We better ask OP - does FFT function of low end scopes is good enough or he wants device likeTek 3 series MDOfor 500$

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 11:16:23 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 13, 2021, 08:04:45 amI don’t have any experience with Micsig so I defer to your judgement on that, and I agree with your comments on conventional scopes and the AD2. Your descriptions of conventional scopes vs AD2 are very consistent with my experience. No doubt, the AD2 can do a lot - it just feels like you have to sort of tease it out vs just tap this and twist that - but maybe with enough time on the AD2 the process becomes second nature. In any event, fwiw, I always enjoy your posts.

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 05:10:16 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 13, 2021, 07:30:18 amI get that response about apps on my phone and PC too. But that means EVERY app is affected similarly because of one irritating app. This program needs to be lobotomized.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 05:35:59 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 05:10:16 pmIt only really has one app, soooo...(Well, ok, youcanuse it to browse the web, watch youtube and play media files off a USB stick. That would be annoying. Maybe you can find/delete the media files. :-) )

author: gnuarm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 05:48:39 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 13, 2021, 05:35:59 pmActually it's not a tablet. It's like a tablet, but this is a custom designed device with knobs and scope ports, etc. So saying the tablet has a volume control is a bit silly. The device has a volume control. It needs alternative sounds. A simple tic would suffice to verify pressing virtual buttons. That's what we are supplying on a real button ventilator.Someone in marketing for this scope product was being cute.I would prefer that it was a separate device attached to a tablet or a PC. I'd like something like this I can put in my computer bag and carry with me. Except I don't go anywhere much these days with the virus on the rampage.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 05:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 05:48:39 pmLooks like a tablet to me:The OS is Android and there's a version without knobs, too. It's a tablet by any other name.Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 05:48:39 pmThe official Micsig carry bag is quite small and very reasonably priced compared to most other manufacturers (34 Euros). It was a no-brainer to add one when I bought my Micsig.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: gnuarm on February 13, 2021, 05:48:39 pmI chalk it up to being an 'Asian thing' where every device has to make lots of noise. Then again the sounds in the Micsig scopes aren't that annoying. I have a TO1104 myself and store it in a Telesin gopro case (biggest size).https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-tablet-oscilloscope-tbook-mini-to1000/msg1209307/#msg1209307

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 06:42:20 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on February 13, 2021, 06:30:14 pmHow do you explain all-American Keysight multimeters?Quote from: nctnico on February 13, 2021, 06:30:14 pmThe famous video with the sound effects has the microphone volume turned waaaaay up so you can hear them.(Listen to how loud the button clicks are in the video. In reality the button clicks are very quiet).The thing to take note of is how (eg.) all the Serial parameters are on a single page, not with every item in a separate sub-menu that has to be individually opened and closed. You can go down the screen and select UART->CH1->9600->OK in 4 finger presses. How many clicks and knob twists does it take on a Rigol/Siglent? Anybody...?

author: ogden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2021, 08:30:26 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on February 13, 2021, 06:42:20 pmSome may "quiet down" their lab equipment with scotch tape or chewing gum, but continuity beep of pro multimeter for all around use must be LOUD.

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 05:47:34 am
content: between the two rigol and siglent oscilloscopes which of the two is the most intuitive and easy to use?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 09:47:32 am
content: Quote from: arivel on August 28, 2021, 05:47:34 amExactly which models ?

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 03:57:49 pm
content: Siglent SDS1102CML+RIGOL DS1102Z-ERIGOL DS1102E

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 04:37:28 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on August 28, 2021, 05:47:34 amRigol does some things better, Siglent does other things better. Overall it's about the same.You want really, really intuitive and fast/easy to use? Get a Micsig.

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2021, 06:17:41 pm
content: then let's do this .if you were to buy an oscilloscope for a person who knows nothing about electronics and has never used this instrument, which one would you choose?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 07:08:18 am
content: Quote from: arivel on August 28, 2021, 06:17:41 pmMicsig.But it depends on the budget and what they'll be using it for.

author: arivel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 07:53:24 am
content: I asked a question about siglent and rigol but you insist on micsig, are you a seller maybe?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 12:49:31 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on August 28, 2021, 06:17:41 pmIf you believe they will be in for the long haul get something they can grow into.Had a chap a couple weeks ago and everything we put in front of him was too dear....we investigated one then another and in the end he bit the bullet and went for the dearer and better featured scope.Don't always work that way as in the end the customer makes the decision based on what we have in stock which is no longer one of the models you had on your list as there are much better scopes for a little more $.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 01:56:08 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on August 29, 2021, 07:53:24 amNo he isn't and neither am I. It is just that there is more out there than just Rigol and Siglent. The Rigol model you listed is quite outdated for example. Another model to consider in this price class is the GW Instek GDS-1054B. Gets you 4 channels with individual controls and a snappy user interface. But it also depends on what is available to you if you don't want to buy from another country.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2021, 06:33:03 pm
content: Quote from: arivel on August 29, 2021, 07:53:24 amNo, I'm somebody who used to own a Rigol and now owns a Micsig.The only reason I mentioned it is because you asked for "most intuitive and easy to use". Micsig is ahugestep up from Rigols and Siglents in user interface (touch screen, excellent design).But... Micsigismore expensive and (as I also said) it depends on the budget.What will it be used for? One thing that's important to get right is number of channels. 4 channels is very important in the days of microcontrollers and digital electronics.