How much does university prestige matter for employers and salary? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: geratheg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 07:30:18 pm
content: I'm from California and got accepted in the UC Berkeley (ranked #2 or #3 public school for EECS just below Stanford and MIT) and another school is UC Davis (ranked around #30 for EE or ECE) as a transfer student. UCB seems more expensive and competitive in coursework but is one of the most prestigious universities. UCD is closer and cheaper. I'm more likely to get a better GPA from UCD than from UCB. I plan on going up to a MS degree.1. How much does it matter about the prestige when it comes to industry?2. Will there be a difference salaries, where UCB students would generally get higher pay than UCD students in the same job position?3. What about in terms of being more likely to be employed?4. Suppose two resumes are equal except one says their education is from UCB and the other from UCD, which would you hire?If anyone knows anything or has experience with any of those schools please respond with your suggestions.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 07:35:17 pm
content: Outside the US, a respectable state university and a big name carry pretty much the same prestige. I'm not that familiar with US state of affairs, I'm working here on a coporate transfer, and didn't notice any bias based on university prestige -we had hires from state universities and rejected applications from Yale -, so maybe this is the case throughout the technology field...I do hear from people working in finance that university prestige is everything in that sector though...

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:08:30 pm
content: The answer is a big fat "it depends".You're asking how it enters into the decision-making process of the person or people who will be making the hiring and salary decision at some point in your future. Those are individual people, with their own individual biases and opinions, and it's impossible to predict exactly how those individuals will weigh the various factors.Having said that, here are a few general observations:University education details matter much more for someone who has very recently graduated than for someone who has been out of school for a few years. After a while, your work record is the only thing that matters.If you're graduating with a MS, the reputation of your grad school is much more important than the reputation of your undergraduate school.If the people doing the hiring have direct experience with graduates of the university or universities in question, they're more likely to have an opinion about the program. To be more specific to your example, most people at large high tech employers in the SF Bay Area will probably know a few graduates of Stanford and UCB, and perhaps UCD. Their opinions of the program will likely be colored by their opinions of the individual alumni they know, for better or worse. While there may be trends toward one program producing better graduates than others, there will be outliers and exceptions to those trends. Here's hoping the alumni of your school who go before you make a positive impression at your future workplace. Better yet, here's hoping the people interviewing and hiring you graduated from the same school you'll be attending!Most people with much industry experience are aware that school reputation isn't everything. They've encountered good and bad co-workers from various universities. On the other hand, when you're a fresh graduate applying for your first job, during the first cut at a quick interview, they don't have an awful lot of other things to go on. So it doesn't hurt to be graduating from a school with a great reputation.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:15:45 pm
content: In the US, pedigree matters.If you're going for a masters and beyond, your demeanor and work ethic will actually mean as much as your grades. That will be the key in getting faculty references for a position that pays you versus a masters program that you must pay for.And as previously stated, your masters or PhD institution matters most, but your undergrad institution will help get you in the door. The BS is the new high school diploma, so don't expect anyone to be overly impressed with your undergraduate institution no matter what it's name.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:20:47 pm
content: for a good company : no impact.but, there's something that bothers me in your question. What are you after ? a good education , or a high paying job, or a job you are genuinely interest in doing ?Good education can be had from different , non pedigree , schools.high paying job ? become a slideware creator or marketing dude.

author: JBaughb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 27, 2015, 08:20:47 pmThat's not fair. Its a worthwhile question asking people in the industry what their experiences are with hiring and university prestige. One can have interest in getting a job they're interested in while still having a desire to live comfortably.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:34:51 pm
content: Short answers:Quote from: geratheg on April 27, 2015, 07:30:18 pmIn engineering, not much. How you come across at interview will be far more important.QuoteThere will be are greater variations in salary with location, industry, and type of job. You don't get paid for where you came from, you get paid for what you can do.QuoteAgain, that's all about you. There's a bit of luck in finding opportunities, but turning opportunities into job offers is about "closing the deal", in other words how you come across at interview.QuoteI wouldn't care much about it. I care about who you are, what you have done, and what you can do.One suggestion to make is to lower your costs and minimize debt while being a student. It's not likely you will recover higher costs with a higher salary later on.Also consider that research oriented schools may not offer the best teaching for undergraduates. Get your BS from a school with a good teaching record and get your PhD from a school with a good research pedigree.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:41:50 pm
content: In my company, they have their "short list" of favorite schools where they concentrate most of their recruiting.Although that doesn't mean that if you from some other school they won't still give you due consideration.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:45:04 pm
content: In my company, as long as it's a real 4-year university (not ITT, Devry, etc.) then it doesn't really matter, it depends on the individual's skillset and how they come across in the interview.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 08:46:23 pm
content: Congratulations on your acceptances! It's good to have choices.I can't answer your question for engineering. But in the academic and basic science research world, university pedigree does play a role at the graduate school level and beyond. Undergrad not so much.Quote from: geratheg on April 27, 2015, 07:30:18 pmWhy do you say UCD is cheaper? Do you mean living expenses? It's been several years now since I was part of the UC system but it used to be that "fees" were the same across all campuses. Perhaps that's changed.QuoteIt may not be directly related to your question but since I spent several years as a research associate and lecturer at UCB I can say it's a great campus to be part of, with incredible opportunities for both on and on campus eductation.I would not ignore the "non-academic" aspects of unverstiy education as well. I don't have much experience with UCD per se (though I almost went to med school there) but I have spent time in Davis. It's a nice small university town but outside of the university itself - not much going on there.Then again - sometimes it is better to be a big fish in a small pond...Unless the working engineers here tell you that your job prospects will be much better at the more prestigous university, I would focus on all aspects of your university experience since I'm sure you will get an excellent engineering education at either school.

author: JBaughb
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 09:04:16 pm
content: Quote from: mtdoc on April 27, 2015, 08:46:23 pmIts gotta be living expenses. Berkeley is a much more expensive town to live in compared to Davis.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 09:07:10 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on April 27, 2015, 08:08:30 pmI'd like to expand on that point: Give yourself other things the employer can go on: clubs, competitions, side projects, etc. If one of those schools doesn't give you those opportunities and enough time to do them, you will likely be served better by the school that does. Internships can be amazing.I've never seen GPA matter in the workplace, but your undergraduate GPA can be a factor in which graduate program you attend.

author: PedroDaGr8
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 09:19:03 pm
content: As I was advised by a VP of a petrochemical company, someone has to justify your hiring to someone else. Deserved or not, school name caries an implicit weight in these kinds of discussions. You can easily overcome the school bias by having a good resume, but it is even easier on the hiring manager when they don't have to defend the school. Some will be lazy and not want to put up the fight, for these people they will say "But he went to XXX". For the others, school name will not matter as much.

author: tytower
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 09:37:06 pm
content: I'll throw this in just because it is true .When you go through Uni no matter what you do , you are pressured to learn parrot fashion and reproduce that on a final test.You don''t get time to consider what you have been taught until well after the graduation year. Only then will you gain experience and real knowledge comes from experience only.Thats why your experience matters much more to an employer. Money is commensurate with experience .

author: Tinkerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2015, 11:46:37 pm
content: For most schools, it doesnt matter.The only time the school matters is if its something like MIT or Harvard or a school on the opposite end of the spectrum. All the schools in between seem to basically have the same effect.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 12:20:35 am
content: Is about what kind of friends you going to meet? And maybe the spouse you can meet.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 12:42:01 am
content: No question an EE Degree from Berkeley will get you more attention than an a degree from UC Davis. Berkeley is a highly desired and highly competitive school. Congratulations on being accepted! UC Davis is renowned for its agriculture and life science programs. You may be equally educated at both engineering programs (I'm biased towards Berkeley), but when two resumes are on a hiring manager's desk, guess which one floats to the top. My nephew earned his EE BS at Berkeley, got a job, and completed his Masters degree on the employer's dime.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 08:28:09 am
content: I can't speak specifically to the comparison of Berkley and Davis, but I do have some perspective on the general question of choosing between an elite school and one with less prestige.A couple years ago I got into an argument on another forum with someone who insisted that an undergrad degree from MIT made a huge difference compared to a good smaller, but lesser known school (Harvey Mudd) that attracted similarly qualified students. I dug up some salary studies comparing MIT, Harvey Mudd, and a number of other engineering schools, and what do you know, the difference between Mudd and MIT was minor in early, mid and late career.A study of people admitted to elite colleges across disciplines found that, pretty much universally, people who made the cut for an elite school, but ended up attending a less elite school for some reason, did as well in their working life as the graduates of those elite colleges. The exception was people from poorer families, often first in their family to go to college. In that group, the elite schools seemed to provide an advantage.Its certainly true that some hiring managers will give you more consideration because you went to Berkley, and there may be other advantages, but that isn't the whole story. One obvious difference is that Davis is going to cost you less money. That could mean less time working, more time for studying and working on projects with your peers. It could mean substantially less debt at graduation, and therefore more flexibility about the jobs you take in your first 5-10 years after school.Oh, also, consider that a hiring manager that skips over a well qualified grad from a lesser school for one from a top school because he/she finds it easier to justify may well be the kind of manager who can't defend their staff against unreasonable schedules, budgets, requirements (ie, a terrible manager to work for).Quote from: mtdoc on April 27, 2015, 08:46:23 pmTrue, but not universally, particularly in this era. A friend from undergrad went to a second tier research university for his life science PhD, and now has a nice lab at a top-tier research university. In his telling, at the second tier university, he had the chance to learn how to be a researcher -- design experiments, write grants, take the lead on papers, the whole ball of wax. At a top tier university, he would have been a cog in a machine. As a result of his choice, he was able to build his career at a time when so many PhDs are having trouble even scoring a job in academic research.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 10:01:49 am
content: Quote from: geratheg on April 27, 2015, 07:30:18 pmIn big organisations, it often depends on the guy who hires. Is he from UCD ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 11:17:08 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on April 27, 2015, 08:08:30 pmIn that case you are doing it wrong!If you have nothing else to offer but your grades and what school you went to, then you are going to get walloped by the person that brings along all their side projects to the interview. No matter how good you are, graduates with the same degree and grades as you will be a dime a dozen.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 04:06:27 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on April 28, 2015, 11:17:08 amPretty much this.What ultimately matters is how you can differentiate yourself. You need to think of your employer as a customer. You're selling your services to them. Someone earlier said that it wasn't fair to ask if the OP is shopping for the most money, or the best way to get into the field of interest. It's perfectly fair, because if someone is expecting the simple fact of what school they attended to do the grunt of the work at getting them hired, they're only doing themselves a disservice. The school you choose should be chosen for its ability to facilitate yourexistinginterest in a particular field of study. If you cannot afford such a school, then pursue that interest seperately while you work on the fundamentals that the school can teach you.At my place of employment, they exclusively shop MIT for IC design engineers. We've had a few real stinkers that didn't last, while some of our best designers either didn't come from those places, or worked their way into a design role from product engineering. Weusedto shop Berkley too, but once we found that the PhD's started using standard templates for thesis dissertations and were mostly walked through it by the profs, we've removed them from the priority list.If I personally have the position to hire someone, I have no interest in your piece of paper. I'm going to flat out ask you, "show me what you have done." I want to see the kinds of problems that interest you, and I want to see how you've solved those problems. I want to see how you manage projects while dealing with your other daily obligations. All of these things are ultimately not something that is handed to you from a papermill. They are a function of your character. If I want a robot who simply repeats motions of existing, solved, problems I can pick up someone from over seas for a song; but I have no need for robots.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 07:06:06 pm
content: I think there needs to be a differentiation between getting the job and getting an interview. With the automated systems used in the US, getting the interview is based on the text of your resume matching keywords.Once one gets the interview, then the bonus credentials can help.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 07:17:52 pm
content: Quote from: JBaughb on April 27, 2015, 08:30:37 pmMy question is what are you after ?the university that gets you the best paid job ?the university that gives you the best education ?Feynman already wrota bout that. One university had a gold plated particle accelerator that students were allowed to look at but not touch, another university had a dumpy machine in a dark cellar, leaking coolant and held together by duct tape.Guess which one published the most research papers and did the most discoveries ?So what do you want ? Knowledge or Money ? Yyou can have both, i never said that was not popssible. The question is :what do you go for first ? and that will tell me what i am dealing with ...

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 09:18:46 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on April 28, 2015, 04:06:27 pmIgnoring the degree for a minute. How does a newly minted grad come to your attention as a potential hire? An automated resume parsing system? How does that motivated, qualified candidate get your attention to get called for an interview? Particularly ones that may not have any industry networking contacts...Rather than arguing over the merits of the piece of paper, could those that are actively involved in the hiring of EEs give some guidelines on how to get to the interview?

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 09:25:33 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on April 28, 2015, 07:17:52 pmGood point but they may not be mutually exclusive.My advice to the OP: If you can, go and spend a day or more at each campus sitting in on some EE classes, including labs. Talk to current EE students to get a feel for what they like and dislike about their program.And as far as living expenses in Berkely vs Davis, I can say from first hand experience that it is possible to live on the cheap in Berkeley (or nearby). It does take some determination and creativity - but those are good life skills to learn. Don't just max out student loans so you can live the easy life while a student. You'll learn less and regret the extra debt later on.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 28, 2015, 10:15:04 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on April 28, 2015, 09:18:46 pmFind a college that has good contacts with companies that offer internships, and/or a college with a careers department that can help place students as interns through careers fairs and other channels.Getting a job as a summer intern and impressing is an excellent way to get offered a permanent position.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 02:21:31 am
content: How about this for something to differentiate the two schools....Which school has more interesting (to you) and accessible (to you as an undergrad) research going on? A lot of programs will let you work for some research project as an undergrad. As long as you don't overload yourself on top of normal class work, this is a great opportunity to get some real experience doing something which is also impressive for employers and especially grad schools if that's your deal.Find out what research projects each school has going on and which might be available for undergrads to help with. Try to talk to the guys running the projects.Or I could give you my short answer, which is...Congrats on getting into Berkley... Now go to Berkley...I knew people with 4.0+ highschool GPA that didn't get into top tier UC schools (UCLA, Berkley, etc...) and they were super pissed about it.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 02:49:35 am
content: The name of the school is the most over rated factor in history. At today's prices university education is a very poor investment to begin with. Overpaying for an already overpriced product(university) is just dumb. Save your money. Not having a ton of debt when you graduate will be worth a huge increase in salary by itself.It might matter what school you went to a small amount for your FIRST JOB. Of course as Dave said, someone from a cheap state college with a nice portfolio of projects might actually get chosen over someone from MIT with nothing to show for it.And after your first job, it does not matter jack crap what school you went to. Your experience and what you have actually done counts for way way more than anything at all like the name of your school or what GPA you got etc...no body gives a crap about your GPA either after your first job. How you handle yourself, your experience, and what you can show to me that says you can produce is all that matters.If you can produce for my business in the job I need to you to function in, I don't care where you went to school. I might care that you have a degree of som sort in the field but that is about all. The rest comes down to what you can actually do for me as a business.

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 06:09:20 am
content: Quote from: IanB on April 28, 2015, 10:15:04 pm+1000The last three people I've hired got their job after an internship made possible by a recommendation from their teachers (and in one case from the PhD adviser).

author: tytower
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 07:01:33 am
content: When someone mentiond Berkley ...Berkley database ...and MIT ...I tend to sit up and listen . I watch the MIT science news RSS feeds dailyI live in Australia and they are the only Unis I know or take notice of in the States.I did degrees at James Cook University in Townsville but that Uni is known world wide for Marine Studies as it is right on the Great Barrier Reef. Anyone who works in Marine biologies knows that Uni by reputation .So like the guy says ...Go to Berkley.....and it was a smart move asking.

author: ivaylo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 07:30:28 am
content: Umm, let's see... What got invented/produced in Berkeley? The original SPICE program, BSD Unix, the memristor, Berkeley DB, ... just from the top of my head. So dunno... are you after knowledge or are you after money? Jeezus...

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 12:25:36 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on April 28, 2015, 09:18:46 pmQuite a bit of creation on your part there. Let me create a system about your company, which I know nothing about, and then use these unfounded assertions to attack! Whee!Newly "minted" grads don't get our attention. The company has active finders who shop for people who will graduate in about 1 year down to 6 months. If they wait until they graduate, they're left with the scraps. Fortunately, this is not limited to just MIT and such as it comes down to the members of different divisions looking outside of the "easy" places for talent. When we go shopping for new hires, we specifically hunt for candidates, and perform on-site introductory interviews. Of the many that are performed, a list is generated by the person of whom they think are good material. These persons then get put through the gauntlet, a full day of interviews among various persons in the group they would intern at. They'll get beaten on by the Fellows, and then beaten on by their would-be peers. Those who can cut it, then get offered paid interships for the summer where we see what their work ethic is like. If they do well, we offer them a job.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 01:02:01 pm
content: It's been a decade or so since I recruited any grads. I'd give slight benefit to those from a couple of unis where I knew I could phone up a senior lecturer and have a chat about what he knew about the grad I was looking at, but apart from that I didn't care what the uni was.What mattered was the CV and some sign that they had a life beyond electrons.At interview I'd want them mathematically competent, had common sense and a sense of humour. I gave one bloke a job purely on his enthusiasm. He was such a great guy to be with that everyone else on the team was always willing to help him with anything he was struggling with and he'd happily put in a lot of effort on the bits he could do. That ability to drag others along to get things done is worth far more than being technically very good, as at grad level it really means very little compared with an average person with ten years good experience.So chose to go to uni where you want to go, I chose mine because it had some of the best access in the country for rock climbing. Learn some people skills, show some enthusiasm and do things you enjoy. It might not make you millions, but you'll do ok and be a lot happier for it.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 04:32:48 pm
content: Quote from: XFDDesign on April 29, 2015, 12:25:36 pmWhoa! No malice intended. That wasn't meant to be an attack. It was just a question to redirect the discussion. So active recruiting is how you hire young engineers.

author: Blofeld
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 09:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: geratheg on April 27, 2015, 07:30:18 pmBerkeley gave me SPICE and the Berkeley Physics Course (more precisely, "Mechanics" and "Electricity and Magnetism", don't know the other books). Davis gave me... hmm, dunno. Maybe they invented some stuff that I used without knowing it. Soiftwo resumes were exactly equal, I'm pretty sure most people would hire the Berkeley guy.On the other hand, at Berkeley you would be one student among some very, very bright other students. And you might have the unpleasant experience of many other students being ahead of you, no matter how much effort you put in. This is less likely to happen at Davis.

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2015, 10:25:29 pm
content: Quote from: Blofeld on April 29, 2015, 09:52:26 pmOn that note, an unfortunate truth is a lot of larger companies have a minimum GPA threshold before you're even considered. It's a hard number, no wiggle room, the admins won't even pass along your resume to the necessary department unless you hit it.I graduated from undergrad with a 3.49 overall (3.8 engineering only), and I applied at one institution that had a 3.5 cutoff...no dice. Meanwhile I knew several guys who went to a MUCH easier state school down the road and came out with 3.6-3.7 without any effort. Many got interviews with this company, and some were hired. On more than one occasion they would come back to me to ask for help with their work because their school skipped straight over many of the basics - topics that you wouldn't have even passed at my school if you hadn't mastered.

author: geratheg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2015, 12:05:33 am
content: Thanks for all the responses. I have a 4.0 at CC, but I also have some projects that I put in the application, which is probably what got me into Berkeley in the first place. Looks like I'm leaning a little more for Berkeley. Have until the end of May to decide.I saw a list of jobs per major for Berkeley. In that list, most of those with an EECS got a job as a software engineer. I'm more into hardware than software.All of you that got an EECS at Berkeley, what was your GPA? What about Davis?

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2015, 10:14:05 am
content: In Australia? Not much, if at all. At the end of the day, smart employers want passion, articulation, intelligence, drive and skill.The "old boys" club does not exist here in engineering. Little Lord Flauntleroy's rich parents are throwing money away sending their kids to a private secondary schools here.In Australia (like in other socially advance countries like France and Sweden), it is considered crass and rude to boast or demonstrate social class. All uni engineering courses must meet a standard set by the IEEE. Hence there is no benefit going to a "prestige uni". Same with salary too. There is no difference.Unfortunately things have changed...http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/04/20/4217741.htmThe 4 Corners program exposes so-called "prestige" universities committing fraud in order to get money out of foreigners and the rampant cheating by some foreigners who fail to meet basic standards. In my opinion is, no matter what Australian university a student graduates from, if their spoken or written English is crap they will be out the door before they even get to the end of the first interview. If however, they graduated from a foreign university, that is entirely a different matter - they are not excluded from being a candidate for the job and are evaluated based upon merit.

author: timofonic
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2015, 01:00:19 am
content: Quote from: Balaur on April 29, 2015, 06:09:20 amThat may be an issue.I'm not at university, still struggling with a crappy vocational training school (or is it called trade school too?) but would like to go someday. I've experienced the ass lockers issue.A few above average students get 80% attention span and resources from teachers, while the rest go to fuck off. Maybe there's 40% trash students in class (a few are smart but don't give a shit, others are dumb as a potato and maybe have maturity issues but don't care at all) but the rest have real motivation and don't get the deserved resources.And from those really motivated, I see most of them have learning issues. Such as me.Here in Málaga I'm becoming an university lurker, trying to get access to their labs and workshops.I see they have resources, but I dislike the department way and would prefer an advanced workshop instead. Why a soldering station is separated from PSU, scope and DMM?There's tons of Rigol Scopes in telecommunications and engineering universities here in Málaga too.