Bullshit Alarm - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: guenter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 02:48:41 pm
content: Its impressive Behringer how much Power you get out of 620W Mains. Perhaps its because of the 10 Cylinder V-Motor

author: mdszy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 02:49:56 pm
content: Quote from: guenter on June 23, 2017, 02:48:41 pmWell duh, it's a POWER amplifier! You put 600W in and can get 6000W out! Can't you read?

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 02:56:08 pm
content: Well output power is correct but they should state it as WLS.WLS stands for:WhenLightningStrikes

author: guenter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 02:56:30 pm
content: Even when its a Typo mismatch, the IEC-Plug and the Speacons dont support 30A

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 02:58:58 pm
content: From the wiki:"PMPOPMPO, which stands for Peak Music Power Output or Peak momentary performance output, is a much more dubious figure of merit, of interest more to advertising copy-writers than to consumers. The term PMPO has never been defined in any standard, but it is often taken to be the sum of some sort of peak power for each amplifier in a system. Different manufacturers use different definitions, so that the ratio of PMPO to continuous power output varies widely; it is not possible to convert from one to the other. Most amplifiers can sustain their PMPO for only a very short time, if at all; loudspeakers are not designed to withstand their stated PMPO for anything but a momentary peak without serious damage."

author: guenter
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:09:29 pm
content: 6000W PMPO x Bullshitfaktor = 120000W BullPOThei call it "professional" and engineered in Germany

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:11:07 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on June 23, 2017, 02:58:58 pmYes PMPO can actually be easily calculated from the WLS rating: PMPO=WLS/4So 6000 Watt WLS /4 = 1500 Watt PMPO/10 = 150 Watt RMS

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:27:10 pm
content: Also the Italians can play this game.4800 watt output power bridged at 4 Ohms, (only one iec power input connection.)102A peak output current (thru a single 6A rated phoenix style output connector, never did see one fail)http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/installation/duecanali-series#Duecanali3904 DSP+DThis is how we (used to) do it:

author: MosherIV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 03:35:46 pm
content: QuoteQuoteBeing a marketing arsehole is irrelevant of race, creed, gender or religion.

author: DBecker
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 04:53:21 pm
content: With that much BS on the output rating, you can guess that even the power input is exaggerated.The line input power rating is something that safety organizations enforce, but only as an upper limit. They can state '620W' even if this amplifier never draws more than a few watts. As a guess, they picked the largest number that still allowed them to ship the cheapest power cord.Internally this probably uses a TDAxxxx run at the upper voltage limit. No matter how generously you define "peak" and "instantaneous", the output power will be limited by the resistance of the inductors and ESR of the capacitors to a trivial fraction of the claimed 3100W.

author: debininja
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 09:33:31 pm
content: My mom wasted a lot of money on a QFX branded boombox that was rated "3000Watts." I told her no way in hell is it 3000W, probably uses some chipamp inside.She didn't listen, bought it for $300. After a year, the 3.5mm jack broke and got stuck inside, so I had to open the thing and desolder the 3.5mm jack and replace it. Guess what I found inside the boombox? A TDA7294chipampon a really thin heatsink.Next to it, the power supply board: a SMPS in push-pull configuration with a SG3525 controller, and 2 TO-220 mosfets to drive it.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 10:05:35 pm
content: Quote from: guenter on June 23, 2017, 02:48:41 pmI thought Behringer were a reputable company?They're probably breaking some EU regulation. If it gets to you that much, contact the authorities.

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 10:15:16 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 23, 2017, 10:05:35 pmTheir amplifiers at least are reputable because they copy QSC.I think the issue here is flouting tests. It happens all the time. The power consumption figure is probably at a given output power, or at maximum effieciency and the max. output power figure is probably at 50% THD - neither of which are realistic or sensible.

author: WastelandTek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 10:25:04 pm
content: wankers

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 10:36:05 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on June 23, 2017, 10:05:35 pmMaybe somebody accidentally took the leash off of the marketing team...I love my DEQ2496, sad to see them stoop to this level.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2017, 10:59:09 pm
content: Behringer was always a cheap brand, can't remember one time it was associated with quality. It is however affordable studio equipment.I have friends who use their equipment in a semi-professional setup (studio or PA) and they've learned to always have a spare. Or learn to solder, which most of them did.I had a Peavey Auto-EQ until a few years ago, but it did not look as snazzy as that Behringer DEQ2496. It only had a monochrome screen...Not trying to trash the brand, but it's just 'home gamer' stuff which gets you a lot of bang for the buck. But cheap sliders, cheap switches, noisy power supplies, cheap caps and cheap connectors do not mix with reliability or earning a living out of them.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 01:47:24 am
content: There seems to be lot of BS like that in even the pro audio industry. Was sourcing out equipment for my church and saw a lot of amps that had a rating higher than 1800w, which makes no sense as that would max out a 15 amp outlet, which this stuff is typically designed to plug into.Suppose there is probably some "truth" their their statements, they probably mean that the amps could in theory handle that without blowing. But it's still very misleading to the average consumer.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 05:27:30 am
content: To anyone that wants to show me a new 300-1000W amplifier from Amazon - I just make them listen to my matchbox LePai amplifier, also known as el-cheapo TriPath. It runs on 12V@2A and was about 15 EUR, delivered, including power supply. Not actually matchbox-sized, more like cigar-box.One of them drives a pair of 160W Magnet speakers and fills a bedroom at quarter volume.The other one drives the subwoofer after a "1000W" Sony amp.You get a new appreciation for speaker power after listening to one of those small things.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 10:35:45 am
content: Quote from: debininja on June 23, 2017, 09:33:31 pmIt might well be 3000Wpeakoutput.The 'peak' is just whatever the capacitors can shove down a wire for an instant.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 10:46:47 am
content: Quote from: brainwash on June 24, 2017, 05:27:30 amClass D can be very efficient, yes.That means you can pack them into small spaces, unlike those Class-A monstrosities from the 1980s which were 90% heatsink.(The audiophiles still want the class-As, naturally...)

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2017, 12:25:44 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on June 24, 2017, 10:35:45 amYes, but the output voltage needs to be high enough to deliver the power into the speaker. V = (R*P)0.5so it will have to output 111.4V for 3k1W peak into a 4 Ohm load. Unless it has a class D output stage, the efficiency will be miserable at lower power levels.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2017, 11:52:39 pm
content: Peak output can easily exceed peak input. This is why filter capacitors are used.