Today´s alternatives to Flir InfraCam, cost effective - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 11:04:43 pm
content: Hi everyone,Since 2006 we (Testfield) use a Flir ThermalCam for failure analyzing mostly on pcbs.I would use one for home too, with the same imaging quality.My thoughts about it:Yes, this one wasn´t cheap - In 2006.Now we have 2019...Are there any cams affordable for an hobbyist on the market, which fit the specs of this oldie but goldie ?Say till 500€ ?Got a seek thermal for android, it was no competion to the ThermalCam.Any suggestions ?Martin

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2019, 11:41:11 pm
content: I personally still recommend the FLIR Exx range of cameras as they are a very capable and complete solution. IIRC the Thermacam had a Resolution of 120 x 120 pixels, manual focus and was 9fps. That would suggest you should look for a camera with at least 160 x 120 pixels. The manual focus, high quality, E30 and E40 are available at reasonable cost on the used market and may be upgraded to 320 x 240 pixel E60+ specification. Owning two such cameras, I can say that they are a joy to use. They are also high frame rate modelsNow the bad news. Your budget is a bit low for an Exx series cameras. Think more like 1000 Euros and up.The cheaper alternatives tend to be phone dongle type solutions that I personally do not get on with. They rely on a decent host for their performance and are not, by themselves a self contained solution. They are more affordable however. Other forum members like the Therm-App and Thermal Expert dongle type cameras. Just make sure your phone is up to the required spec or you will need to add the cost of a powerful mobile phone to the purchase cost ! Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and spend a bit more than intended to get something very special that you will not outgrow. Buy once and buy well. Buyers remorse is a killer and often leads to a further purchase and a higher end cost.Do not turn your back on the used thermal camera market as there are some nice FLIR cameras coming onto the market as companies upgrade to the latest models. There seem to be quite a few Exx series cameras being sold recently. If buying one, look at its condition to assess whether it has been well cared for.Upgrading the Exx series cameras to release their dormant full potential is detailed on this forum.Fraser

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 07:54:46 am
content: Check out this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/need-recommendation-flir-ets320-vs-te-q1/

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 09:40:40 am
content: Ugh, we manage a service contract for a large fleet of vessels for an oil & gas company and many of them are using ThermaCams. Full of issues such as failing triggers, firmware corruption and crappy buttons.Fraser hit the mark though, would definitely recommend the Exx series.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 10:14:15 am
content: Quote from: frenky on February 24, 2019, 07:54:46 amThe TE-Q1 Looks very interesting to me....Only the limitation to 150°C....Resistors could getting hotter without taking a damage - So if the cam shows >150°....What will it be, 160, 180 or 220 and too much ?Although I could measure the temp above 150 with an ordinary infrared Thermometer.Therefore...TE-Q1....very interesting, a shop sells it actually for 599€

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 01:18:16 pm
content: Limit to 150*C is only fictional.Module can measur temps over 200*C.Android app will show max temp 150 but windows app will show actual temp.PCB with resistors over 150 is weird because pbsn solder melts at 183...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2019, 02:40:06 pm
content: QuoteAh, ok.QuoteWe got snubber resistors with more than 190°C - They could handle it, to provide the solder for melting or the pcb for damages, those "hotties" are mounted on ceramic distance bushes.

author: Miwer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 06:10:40 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on February 24, 2019, 10:14:15 amInteresting... would you mind sharing the shop name/address? All I could find were prices like €899/999 (non-plus/plus), which for me is a bit too much. Found a pre-owned TE-Q1 Plus from Austria on e-bay for €839, still way too much.Br,Miwer

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 06:44:38 pm
content: Hi,Here:https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/waermebildkamera-android-te-q1-384x288-fuer-elektronikentwicklung/1061431588-173-6273Interesting : It´s the same dealer as in eBay.I would buy it too, but I´m a little confused about the connection type.Got a Motorola with USB-C.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 06:52:40 pm
content: So I have been in contact with the reseller recently to get the multiple listings cleared up. They are an electronics store in Austria, they have a website setup for ThermalExpert cameras here:https://www.thermalexpert.eu/english-1/product-overview/currently you can get the 30hz upgrade option without additional cost through this website or get the starter sets which include the accessories kit for basically free(these are limited 1 per person).If you want to take advantage of a cheaper listing off eBay or eBay-Kleinanzeigen, you should start the contact from there.I am on the edge of either buying the M1 30hz for 399€ and hoping for a hackable firmware/app(the thread sadly dried out). The other option would be a used FLIR E40 for almost 3 times the price but a confirmed hack available and many more features.

author: Miwer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 07:46:57 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on March 03, 2019, 06:44:38 pmHmm... I'm not sure I would trust that site. Is it even affiliated with eBay in any way? Also terrible rating on trustpilot...Thanks anyway.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 08:15:21 pm
content: It is part of eBay for local deals in Germany. And the seller of that listing is the official European reseller for ThermalExpert so you can trust it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 08:32:59 pm
content: I can also confirm that it is part of eBay. More like a local advertisements version as people outside Germany cannot access it via eBay. I had to register again to use that eBay platform in order to buy a very nice close up lens from a great chap in Germany.Regarding ratings, eBay is not what I would call a safe platform when it comes to crossing paths with idiots and thieves but if you use common sense you are mostly OK. The platform is just the way for buyer and seller to meet. If the seller checks out as honourable, you should have no worries dealing with them. The problem with the German local version of eBay is that it is just that .... local only. That is to say, some sellers will refuse to sell, or not at the advertised price if shipping is outside Germany. There can be regional sales agent ‘specials’ and agreements that prevent selling outside the agents country.The best way forward is to contact the seller and discuss any concerns you may have. Let them answer your questions about their physical shop location etc.Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 10:01:43 pm
content: The offer ( 599 instead 799) is only via eBay-kleinanzeigen avaible and only for mini-usb types valid, this is what he told me a few minutes ago.

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 10:34:57 pm
content: I reckon you meen Micro USB?as "mini-usb" is that little fat fuck there is on some of my DMMs for pc support.And yes it is con that is it micro-USB here on the edge for the long kiss goodnight to MicroUSB,, though I reckon it would be pretty straightforward to solder a based 4 to 5pin TypeC on yourself and exchange the MicroUSB. (the TypeC versions is also just USB2 std as fare I know.)but of course better to not should mess with it to start with, so I would also prefer TypeC.Thermal Expert is also landing new TypeC these months in their lineup and also for sale atm but not for this lower sale-price.I don't got any of these Thermapp, Thermal Expert og Xtherm, though been in contact with some of the Chinese and Korean vendors' but is the quality-gap that big from fx Thermal expert low key Q1 to Xtherm 284-388 version both same sensor-size and recall that Xtherm have taken the leap to Type on their model. (any users got a "head to head insight" on these two very comparable models on spec and price??)Have any user here had there hands on both and able to compare pro / cons between Xtherm's low key version and THermal Expert Q1??.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 03, 2019, 10:40:17 pm
content: The sales-manager told me to use a mini-usb to usb-c adaptor with otg, for using the cam on my Motorola smartphone.Otherwise I could buy the usb-c model directly, but for 200 bucks additional...

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 01:40:07 am
content: There is a side by side comparison Gallery #242 (can't find the direct link on mobile...)But note that there is difference in image processing. To me he XTherm looks better with the screenshots given.Thanks for sharing the information, I didn't get that clarification. My current phone is microUSB and so are all the ports on my computer. I feel like it's a good offer on this presumably "old stock", but it opens mkre questions again. Are the USB-C models newer run and therefore somewhat better in components or sensor? There is never a mention of what sensor the TE-Q1 uses and not a single word about the M1 on any i3 website. There being a option for 30hz and extended temprange also tells me that the reseller has some control over the firmware, and them being able to change the window location via app update keep my hope up.Because I will run the camera via cable and not connector directly I might not even care about micro USB or USB-C.

author: guazan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 07:43:30 am
content: good that user would have the TE-M1 and could photos thank you.I'm in doubt of the flir one pro and TE-M1 would use it to repair phone plate.thanks.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 06:30:40 pm
content: QuoteI had bad experience using a adapter to usb-c and then 200 more makes 800 - actually a little too much.So my interest goes to the flir one pro.Interesting offer for a new one pro, but is it 3rd. gen, is it 2nd - How can I find it out ?Martin

author: guazan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 07:01:57 pm
content: El modelo TE-M1 también esta disponible en tipo c pero no encuentro imágenes capturadas por este modelo.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 06, 2019, 07:59:21 pm
content: Ah, the TE-M1.Both costs nearly the same, which one is "better"....

author: guazan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 12:21:35 am
content: I do not know which one is better I'm also in doubt I do not find anything about the TE-M1 model if there is a companion that guides us.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 07, 2019, 09:31:19 pm
content: So I look around today..I would spend up to 500€ for a thermal cam.The "nominated" are:Flir One Pro (USB-C)Thermal Expert TE-M1Seek Thermal compact proChinese brand HT-18Which of them fits best to my needings…. ( Hot spots on PCBs localizing, other electrical stuff (cables, fuses, contactors), as close as possible (nearfield) till 1...2m distance)Martin

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 08, 2019, 11:07:53 pm
content: No Suggestions ?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 01:43:48 am
content: A suggestion: if you're intending to look at PCBs then the HT-18 gun-style form factor might be difficult to utilise. The rest plug into a host phone so easier to position and look at the screen, but the downside is that they plug into a phone - you need afastphone and the software can be somewhat finicky.I have a TE-Q1 and it, or the software, is very fussy about the startup procedure. Additionally, the USB connection tends to be floppy, and if you have a modern phone with USB-C you're likely needing a C-micro adapter to add more floppiness... But a big advantage is you can use a cable to mount instead, and then you can position the camera part independently from the viewing part.An alternative is the HT-A1 which has the same features and functionality as the HT-18 but is in a flat form factor. Has the advantages of the phone+camera but in a single package, so no messing about with connectors. The downside is the firmware could be better and it's (apparently) not upgradeable so what you get is what you get. But it is cheap...Edit: I think most of those would benefit from a close-up lens for PCB work. Some have manual focus which may be enough, though.

author: guazan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 10:33:28 am
content: good and you advise me to my serious repair phone and I am between flir one pro type c and the TE-M1 type c thanks.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:28:54 pm
content: Quote from: dunkemhigh on March 12, 2019, 01:43:48 amThe TE-Q1 is avaible with USB-C, too.The 599€ offer are only for the Micro versions avaible, the USB-C type cost still 799So thank You for your hint with the HT-A1.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2019, 06:41:54 pm
content: My pleasure

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2019, 09:40:57 pm
content: Test the HT-A1:Look at the Display/Resolution....And look at this:This is from our Flir Thermalcam (from the year 2006), which has lower thermal Resolution as the HT-A1...But looks "better" ( to me).How could this be

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 07:41:29 am
content: Lots of possibilities there. Firstly, is that image of yours a capture from the FLiR? That would usually be a better quality than what you see on the screen (cf. the TE discussion) so comparing to a video of the screen is somewhat dodgyNext, the palettes are different. Different palettes enhance (or make worse) the view depending on what you're looking at. On my A1 I switch between cool and white palettes most often, whereas on my FLiR Infracam (same vintage as yours, possibly even the same thing) it stays on the palette you're using.Next, what are you looking at? There is no sense of scale or distance to target, and any proper comparison would have the two tools looking at the same thing.Having said all that, my Infracam does look better even though the resolution is worse in reality. I think part of it is the palette mapping where the colours don't seem to be right. If I switch to the white palette things look a lot better, even better than the Infracam.Finally, these both have fixed focus lenses. When I use a zoom lens on my A1 the jump in clarity is stunning, so I think the focus just isn't as good as it could be.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 09:26:41 pm
content: QuotePardon, my mistake - it is the flir infracam (without sd).QuoteYes and it´s the same as if I would look on the build-in screen.Once I bought the seek thermal compact xr, which have a better resolution as the flir infra cam noted in the specs - But it was very disappointing, so noisy, so slow....QuoteThe flir infracam have manual focus.

author: Chanc3
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 09:47:48 pm
content: Just a comment. You can unlock the thermacam to the SD version. There is just a sticker covering the SD card slot and you can change the config file to enable it. Will only work with SD cards up to 1GB however.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 09:50:16 pm
content: Ah, thanks !Martin

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 10:14:35 pm
content: QuoteYou're quite right - can't think what I was thinking! Of course, that does mean the Infracamshouldbe better at getting a sharp image.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 10:49:02 pm
content: As I said before, I´m actually a little bit disappointedOur flir infra cam was from 2006...13 years old.With specs which are looking really old against today´s cams and also against cheap ones these days.To name it again, the seek thermal compact xr.On the paper better than the infracam.But in real huge disappointment against.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2019, 11:22:14 pm
content: I agree that the Infracam has worn well for a 13-year-old product, particularly given the rate of change in the industry. But it cost £5K (got mine for £3K on a special deal and after haggling) whereas the A1 cost £200.You can see the same with pretty much any big-name old kit vs ultra-cheap modern equivalent. I was going to suggest a scope as an example, but I think the disparity between CRT and digital mitigate against that and I can't think of a modern cheap CRT. Multimeters, then.

author: joe-c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2019, 09:00:17 am
content: Hi,I have InfraCam and Bcam (2007/2008) and they are internal the same.The SD Card slot can be activated... if off it stores internal, if on it need a SD Card.The Bcam has a lower setting for the internal noise generator and more Measurements.The Kameras are expensive a few years ago. now they are <700$ in used condition.Quote from: Martin72 on March 24, 2019, 10:49:02 pmSeek just want to sell and lie about the quality. The XR has 206x156 sensor, this should result give 32136 thermal Pixels but in real each 15th pixel is a hole, because patent.Additional... the HT-18 uses a Core with the same Sensor like Seek Compact (XR). i belive the A2 is just using a Seek Pro core. If you buy a HTI device you maybe just buy a Seek in another housing.I connected a Seek XR and the HT-18 works with it, it looks like before, the Seek Pro works not with it.Better stay by your Infracam... if you remove the housing there is a plastic nose, that limit the angle of the Lens rotation. after removing this, you can get closer to the PCB.best wishesjoe-c

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 08:02:39 pm
content: Hi again,I was so close to buy the TE-M1 ( actually 100€ off, 30hz option included, manual focus) but the fact that the official european vendor anwers very slow or (actual) not (got a problem with the TE app) plus the posts in other threads about problems with compatibility to several smartphones, let me look again to the HT-A1....Do someone know the closest distance for sharp picture ( it´s fixed focussing) ?Can´t find it in the avaible specs….

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 07:25:15 pm
content: QuoteGot an answer today, he said it´s normal behaviour when the cam wasn´t connected….Nevertheless, I have now ordered the HT-A1 via Amazon, should arrive in 2 days.Will test it quick, if it´s crap, it returns...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 10:44:10 am
content: Tada…(Edit Pics removed)First Impression: Not so bad as feared, hefty look and feel, will test it further on monday at work if this is suitable for pcb inspection.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 01:01:54 pm
content: Playing around...It´s a little bit slow and the screen freezes short time after the "click" sound, I´m really exited to test it at work.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 01:54:40 pm
content: Screen freeze is normal on all microbolometer cameras that use a flat field correction shutter. The period between FFC events is usually quite short after initial power on as the sensor array warms up to thermal equilibrium. After the sensor die temperature stabilizes the FFC events become less frequent. On most cameras, every 120 seconds or so. The FFC event causes the freeze frame as the flag is across the sensors view so no new image is available while FFC takes place. The FFC event can impact upon thermal videos so some cameras can disable the FFC during video recording. Some pixel drift will appear over time though.One of the greatest impediments to good PCB surveys, even on high resolution cameras, is the close focus capabilities of the lens, or lack thereof. The close focus capability can be improved with a supplemental ZnSe lens as you no doubt know.Fraser

author: bugi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 06:47:32 pm
content: On the issue of closest focusing distance/capabilities... Apparently for HT-A1 that info wasn't readily available.For the TE-Q1, the specified minimum focus distance for 13mm/1.0 lens is 0.4m (i.e. 40cm). I estimated that it was borderline usable for PCB stuff (and according to the example images somehow even quite ok), and thought I might need an extra lens, like some have done (for one or other purpose). But when testing it, I just kept screwing the lens and got it down to about 12cm focus distance, though I didn't check the flatness of the field at that distance. It might have gotten even closer but the effect on focus distance started to diminish. That extra 28cm closer gives quite nice increase in magnification, and in the end, for PCB work I definitely do not need any extra lens.The main point of that is not to advertise TE-Q1 specifically, but to emphasize how the specs might not be the full truth, for our better or worse (usually worse, for this particular case for better).

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 11:02:40 am
content: Hi,Pics from a pcb (amplifier):Useless….

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:11:33 pm
content: Three screenies from an A1 looking at a RPi warming up. One of them is of an unadorned A1 whilst the other two have third-party lenses in front. I'll let you guess which is which

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:17:57 pm
content: QuoteAha....where can I get it from and how did you have it mounted ?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:02:41 pm
content: There's a thread about them (well, the ht-19 which is the same thing in a pistolgrip case) here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/chinese-ht-18-220x160-8-hz-handheld-thermal-camera/msg1415844/#msg1415844In that thread is a link to a video by some Russian chap that attached extra lenses to an A1:https://youtu.be/oPHtOsmeOCsI just nicked his idea and did exactly the same, picking up likely stuff from Aliexpress

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 05:32:52 pm
content: I´ve just ordered two lenses now, delivery time appx 34 days - Time enough to think about an fixure...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 02:35:17 pm
content: No, today they arrive:But, to be honest, I don´t have any clue to use them "correct" - putting the lens directly to the housing or with distance, which side to the ht-lens….Time to playing around….

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 05:22:53 pm
content: The distance from the original lens determines the focusing distance to the target. As to which way around they go, I put the flat to the camera, but I couldn't actually tell the difference when I tried either way

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 05:33:38 pm
content: Ah, ok.Maybe this here is a good thing to buy for:http://www.m12lenses.com/Plastic-M12-Lens-Holder-p/pt-lh008p.htm

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 06:13:04 pm
content: Maybe, but the problem then is how to mount that on the camera. I like the triple lens solution since it allows easy reversion to the original state without having to mess about with glue or whatever

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 06:43:05 pm
content: From the russian video, I guess - but where to buy ?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 08:29:46 pm
content: Got mine here:https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GQT7DD3Ithinkthis is an equivalent link for Amazon DE:3-in-1 clip-on lens

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 08:34:44 pm
content: Thanks a lot !Hopefully it´s for 18mm diameter lenses - I bought all three lenses in this size…..

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 08:40:42 pm
content: Just use extra glueThat DE link is to one costing 27 Euro, which is three times the UK one. I'd suggest looking around some more or ordering off the UK site if you can.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 07:25:04 pm
content: Got one via amazon, playing around, one of them could fit to the 18mm lens:Must use some glue, but which one...could use 2-K glue but then it will be fixed foreverMaybe Silicon ?

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 08:26:56 pm
content: Good question. One of mine was held in by the screw retainer (just luck I got the right size) and the other I used a dab of cyanoacrylate. That one comes adrift periodically, though.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 08:50:43 pm
content: To be honest, the whole thing annoying me.Manual focussing ones which are affordable, only exists as "adaptor" for smartphones.While their Apps sometimes dosen´t work with all smartphones.Stand-Alone Units with manual focus costs 2500....3000 bucks upwards.That much I won´t spend about for private needings.…..….….

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2019, 09:46:59 pm
content: with the additional lens you likely get some focus adjustment, but that needs a tricky design. Possibly a 3D printed one if you like. FLIR Exx do have some focus adjustment and can be found for around 1k if you look hard enough. You wouldn't believe what you can find on the internet if you are looking for it after all.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 09:18:34 pm
content: Playing around with the lens:USB-Stick (without case).Same but with the lens putting directly to the HT-A1Looks sharper…Here some pics from a resistor loadbank, from the HT-A1 ( as it is) and our oldie FLIR Infracam:(Don´t worry about the temp difference, pictures are not simultaneously taken )

author: DaneLaw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 03:35:12 pm
content: Looks good Martin.. it will usually take some time to get the feeling with these thermal cameras, especially the cheaper ones to sense under what circumstances they perform the best and mix match palettes to different needs and environments.I also use third-party lenses when checking electronic boards or small components behaviour. and sometimes more than one IR lens, like here with both ZnSe and GaAs and simply try & error.here on 2 small 1.25mmx2mm resistors.I took the plunge on a so-called new Seek pro Fast frame edition for 290USD around 1½ years ago from USA, and been very happy with it. (also had to spend around 300 euro for a new Ipad 2018model as I didn't have anything with a lightning port and it was sadly not plug & play hence lightning to MicroUSB adapters like i had hoped, but that Ipad2018 have also been a very pleasant surprise and it delivers very stable performance with the camera.Looking forward now to take the next step to VGA, as 110k models would not be that big a step from Seek's 78k res, but my VGA-budget is 1500USD and will prefer dongle, as I really cherish that big screen and all the palette & range-lock-control and not least video ability..

author: Thermal_Enthusiast_01
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 12, 2019, 12:45:53 pm
content: Hi,i conectet the Ht-a1 Thermal Sensor to my Pc and it is the same signature like the Seek Thermal sensorUSB\VID_289D&PID_0010&REV_0100&MI_01USB\VID_289D&PID_0010&MI_01but zadig have no Driver for com.thermal.pir206.1why not ?have any on the com.thermal.pir206.1 Driver for my......Thanks !Inthu

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 08:55:41 pm
content: So....Sold my HT-A1.For general use it isn´t bad, but for inspecting PCBs....I must have one with manual focus, no doubt.I am afraid only thermal expert could be the choose what payable new ones concerns.I´m not a friend of Smartphone-thermal-imagers….

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2019, 11:37:37 pm
content: The thermal Expert also sales as a core only, but the price is higher. At that point you can look into cores from china.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 08:57:38 pm
content: Hi,By the way thermal-expert....https://www.thermalexpert.eu/deutsch/produktübersicht-1/Again best price offers - but contacting them is awful.Want to know what the -20 to +350 degrees option for TE-M1 would cost and how to order…..no reply.You can´t choose it by the order form, so I asked for it.Strange behaviour….

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 09:05:49 pm
content: TQ1 > TQ1 Pro is nearly 300€ extra. A while back I asked for a price list and M1 in 30hz was 60€ extra for example.They do respond, but often at midnight or even later.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2019, 09:48:16 pm
content: LOL,Exactly now….Wider temprange will cost only 59€, wtf.....

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2019, 09:05:39 pm
content: Hi,Giving cheap things a final chance, I´ve ordered now a TE-M1, with 30hz and extended temp.-range -20 - +350° .Including tax and shipping for 470€, if this doesnt fulfill my needs, it will be the last try what new and (for hobbyists) affordable thermal-cams concerns.

author: triplex
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 01:47:15 pm
content: Keep us updated how the M1 works out, i'm too scared to buy it and regret hard not having the bigger resolution of Q1.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2019, 08:13:26 pm
content: Hi,Therefore you can count on it.For me was the higher resolution of the Q1 also a point to think about.But the M1 comes with 30hz refresh rate and much wider temperature range, for a few 100 bucks cheaper - this was the killer argument.Of course, 384 x 288 looks more attractive as the 240 x 180 the M1 got.But our old flir got only 120x120 and looks nevertheless better than many other, newer, cheaper ones.The Hti-A1 I got before have 220x160 and this was fine to me, except the fixfocus.So it´s got to be excited, what the M1 will deliver.Soon I will know it.And you all too..Martin

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2019, 06:45:12 pm
content: Today the TE-M1 has arrived.Big disappointment…The App crashes permanently, from 20 tryouts only one time I could see a picture - for 2 minutes, then it crashes again….Smartphone is Motorola G6 plus.I think I return it to sender..really disappointing.

author: Conure
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2019, 07:15:10 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 05, 2019, 06:45:12 pmIt's not that the hardware gets loose? My TE-Q1 can barely make contact to the phone without an extra cable that plugs it in firmly.

author: guazan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2019, 07:36:07 pm
content: I'm happy with the TE-M1 works well on a Samsung s10 plus before I had a s9 plus and I did not do well the video influences the phone you are using if you do not try a computer.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2019, 07:44:55 pm
content: Hi,QuoteYou´re right - It´s a contact problem.Try it again, it works until I try to focus on something, this movement last for closing the app.Hm-hm...shaky.Let´s try it with pcb visual inspection on work on monday, until I´ll hopefully find out how to save the settings for the next start.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2019, 03:34:26 pm
content: Better than the HT-A1 or Seek Thermal....What´s a little bit annoying, the "hottest" area will be displayed also as the "brightest", it´s outshine nearly everything.Testing will be continued..

author: triplex
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2019, 07:53:22 pm
content: Could you share some videos please?

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2019, 08:09:42 pm
content: Lookup the Thermal Spectrum app posted to the forum some weeks ago. You can also lock the palette to your liking. Presentation is only a small issue.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2019, 07:24:51 pm
content: Quote from: triplex on July 06, 2019, 07:53:22 pmHm ?To be honest, I´ve never made a video so far….Only Pictures...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2019, 07:50:53 pm
content: From a junctionbox to the load…It´s a fine thing to can do the focussing manually.It´s close to our flir cam, what I miss (or not found until) is a "fixed crosshair" and only the temperature displaying what the crosshair is targeting.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2019, 07:57:05 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on July 08, 2019, 07:50:53 pmThis is still annoying.When you start the app, you see nothing about the temperature you´re actually looking for except the bar on the side.Then you have to choose…Min/Max or rectangular or circle….this means, you can draw a geometric figure and in this the temp will be displayed….There is another choice called "point", but if you choose this, nothing will happen....wtf ?Is it too complex to simple display a fixed crosshair in the middle and display the temp you´re targeting in this ?The cam itself is good, far better than seek thermal or hti HT-A1.But the app will kill me...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 07:53:02 pm
content: QuoteIt´s always the same....RTFM.It works, so far so good - but I couldn´t find a function which stores the chooses I´ve taken for the next startup.Further I couldn´t believe that this is working on 30hz, it´s above the 9hz for sure, but 30hz....MartinP.S. : Want to change the thread-title, how does ist going...

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2019, 07:44:51 pm
content: QuoteIs known and a bug.Annoyed from the plug into the usb-socket problem, I´ve ordered the smartphone bracket from theAccessory Kit.Today the bracket has arrived….I´ve expected it to come in typical plastic, but Boy, this is full metal….Excellent quality and fits perfect.Pics following tomorrow..

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 09:45:40 am
content: Must buy a longer cable….

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 10:08:19 am
content: I 3D printed something like that. The big problem I found was that the phones tend to have the power and volume buttons along one side, so finding a position where the holder could be mounted and left the combination comfortable to hold could be tricky.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 03:01:32 pm
content: Yes indeed.First I didn´t realize it and my phone suddenly turned off...It´s not comfortable but safer what the contact between the USB connectors concerns.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 03:19:35 pm
content: I have seen such holders used with a common pistol grip screwed into the tripod mount. It makes the handling of the setup far more comfortable and secure. Pistol grips for SLR’s come in many designs to suit your tastes. I even have the rifle butt type mounts for holding a camera steady whilst ‘shooting’.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 03:24:22 pm
content: Some pictures of the Therm App solution.......

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 03:56:47 pm
content: Ah, that´s pretty cool.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 04:04:17 pm
content: Still grips the phone on its sides. The photos should show the phone unbalanced and sticking out more on one side for realism

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 06:36:27 pm
content: Hello,I just got a good deal on a Seek Thermal Shot Pro. I want to use it fo all kinds of stuff, including analyzing PCBs. I don't have it yet, but it seems for PCBs I'd need a additional lens to be able to get closer to the PCB.I made some calculations and the pixel size with the minimum focal distance is around 1.5mm. Someone told me to make a good measurement, the smallest hotspot should be at least 3x3 pixels, which would be around 5x5mm.With an additional lens the focal distance should be smaller, but I don't know what kind of lens to buy.In this thread ZnSe lenses were mentioned, but what size and focal length are good? 18mm diameter and 50mm focal length? The camera has 57° optics, minimum focal distance is 50cm.I hope someone can help me.Magnus

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 07:23:51 pm
content: Hi Magnus,Therefore I´ve bought lenses for my HT-A1 - It will work, but it was somekind of fiddly to mount.My HT-A1 has gone, the three lenses are already here, 18mm Diameter, 50.8mm, 63.5mm, 101.6mm.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/todays-alternatives-to-flir-infracam-cost-effective/msg2410707/#msg2410707Martin

author: Magnum
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2019, 07:40:49 pm
content: Hello Martin,interested in selling them?Magnus

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 11:43:21 am
content: Quote from: Martin72 on August 11, 2019, 09:45:40 amhttps://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07FPBZQNY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1So I did, it arrives today - and it doesn´t function...Looks exactly like the shorter one but nothing will happen after connecting it.What´s wrong with it?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 12:59:27 pm
content: All cables are not born equall.Some cables are plain USB extensions whilst others are OTG extension cables. Some sellers do not know the difference and send plain extensions when an OTG type is needed.Plain extensions have 4 USB wires and OTG cables use 5 (4 USB plus ID wire)Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 01:08:51 pm
content: So I must starting try and error….wonderful..

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 01:25:02 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 07, 2019, 01:08:51 pmAfter 3 errors, I gave up trying to buy the right cable and bought the plug, socket and wired my own.The longer story is somewhere on hereBill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2019, 01:37:53 pm
content: I bought a total of 5 micro USB extension cables. All were described as OTG compatible. Only 2 of the 5 worked and were true OTG types.Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 08:14:34 pm
content: This is really annoying and make me think about to give it all away and save the pennies to buy sometime a stand-alone version...Got the seek thermal and it was totally crap.Got the HT-A1 and the fixed focus made it useless for pcb inspections.Got now the TE-M1, which is unlikely better than the two metioned before, but some software-bugs and the endless search for a functional usb-cable are frustrating.Plus:On the flir infracam we use at work, the contrast between the hotspot and the rest is "sharp".On the TE-M1, the hotspot "overshine" the rest of the area a little bit more, couldn´t describe it better, will make some pictures of.Although the resolution of the TE-M1 is remarkable better as by the infracam.And I still want to change the thread-title....

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 08:40:25 pm
content: Martin72,I feel for you. It has not been an easy journey.My recommendation stands. A used, good condition FLIR E40 is an amazing camera for around Euro 1200. It is easily reconfigured to the full E60 specification and can even have more functions than the E60 if desired. The imagery is what would be Zoe ted from a quality Radiometric camera. I stand by my view that it is better to buy a well cared for used Professional thermal camera than a new budget model.With the E40 you open the case, press the power button, wait a short time (~30seconds) for boot and temperature stabilisation of the Microbolometer and then use it. No loose cabling, cell phones or other distractions. Just a well designed ergonomic and rugged thermal camera. I remain one of those who is unconvinced by the phone dongle solutions for professional Radiometric use.Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 09:00:48 pm
content: QuoteI´m afraid You´re right.Our old flir from 2006 still rules over the budget things I´ve tested so far.The E40 looks interesting, but minimum 40cm distance to get things sharp (manual) focussing….

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 09:15:43 pm
content: My E40 focuses sharply down to 20cm but I will check again when I get home. I have two E40 units so I can test both for closest focus distance. I have both professional and ZnSe Close-up lenses to provide closer working distance if required. I will see if I can produce some close-up images for you but that will have to wait until next week.There are very few professional thermal cameras that will provide very close focus with their standard lens. Many require the addition of a close-up lens and such can provide almost thermal microscope capabilities.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2019, 09:23:31 pm
content: This thread may be of interest.......https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/the-fluke-wide1-10mm-f1-0-wide-supplemental-lens-use-on-other-cameras/In a quick test in that thread my E40 focussed down to 20cm without the Fluke Wide1 lens and 3cm with it !Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 08:20:53 pm
content: Nearly 3yrs ago....Anything new on the market, stand alone, manual focussing for inspecting pcbs? And "cheap" ? (under 1000bucks)

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 09:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 04, 2022, 08:20:53 pmhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/dytspectrumowl-ca-20-electronical-version-on-kickstarter-crowdfunding/msg3939616/#msg3939616Been shipping for a while. Nice build although not without some bits that would benefit reviewing for the next version. Software is pretty good, but also needs the UI equivalent of proof reading.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 09:23:46 pm
content: I was going to write an updated reviews to cover the new CA-20 and SpectrumOwl Version 2 software but sadly have had no time to focus on this recently due to work commitments. I will see what I can sort out in the coming weeks as I have just returned home from an extended period overseas.Fraser

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 09:44:56 pm
content: Hi,Looks like it´s not stand alone and need a smartphone...

author: cuda12
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 10:33:18 pm
content: Same answer from 3 years ago the flir e40 on up and the best news is they have gone down in price in the last 3 years, $600-$1200

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2022, 10:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: Martin72 on September 04, 2022, 09:44:56 pmAh!, Yes, you're right - I saw 'standalone' and mentally saw the stand it comes withYes, it will use a phone (or PC). I have a TEQ1 which plugs into a phone and I much prefer this one, which doesn't. I had originally figured I could just make a holder for the camera on one side and phone on the other if I needed it faking standalone, but the huge advantage of this is that you can point the camera one way and look at the screen facing another. With other standalones you're left contorting yourself, or compromising the screen of FoV of the lens, to be able to see it. I will sometimes have the phone just propped up on the bench and move the camera around in my hand, but having one in each hand is seemingly less unwieldy than the standalones I have.Still horses for courses and if you can't bear the phone (and the app is much more robust than the TE one) then this, indeed, wouldn't be suitable.