Neoden S1 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Chad.Wagner
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2019, 10:02:25 pm
content: Any information or reviews of the Neoden S1?How does it compare to the Neoden4?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 12:33:22 am
content: Why would there be when it would appear it is either new or not released?Ignoring the strong possibility this is really a sneaky sales pitch:It looks like Neoden have decided to make a machine that is more tempting to high mix environments, the feeder can be changed in banks & they can be loaded individually.They are electronic feeders so they probably cost more than the Yamaha clones but that means they can be smart and might mean they are better at 0201 which they claim it can do.Are the feeders "SMART"? -unclearIt uses laser alignment which is faster than a fixed camera, but that means it can never do some of the things a camera can (not that I think a Nedeon 4 does) such as spot missing BGA balls or bent legs.IMHO It looks like it has a lot in its favour over a Neoden4 (that simply has too many flaws) but who knows what the software is like, it seems to be yet another completely different UI so yet another thing Neoden now have to support and improve and integrate all the feedback they get form customers into, would make much more sense if they did that once. IT HAS A NOZZLE CHANGER, S**t the bed, die of shock, wowzer!Now the other more pertinent question is how does it compare to the Neoden 7.....

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 05:23:22 am
content: Quote from: SMTech on November 04, 2019, 12:33:22 amYes, its a tactic employed by both PCB-Fabs and it seems PNP manufacturers.. I do note that Neoden have been quite active in this forum recently...

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 07:24:56 am
content: All I know is it has 58 feeders, electrical feeders (not sure if it is propriety or Yamaha electrical feeders), runs Linux on ARM (new software unlike the ones in Neoden 4), flying vision and relatively light (less than 100 kg). It claims to do down to 0201.The rest is relatively not made known to public, yet.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 08:26:09 am
content: In the videos the feeders looks pretty cheap, slightly flimsy looking stamped steel & plastic, I'd say they were their own.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 09:26:19 am
content: The first S1 for Europe has arrived at the Rotterdam Harbor.I am very excited to receive it tomorrow, as we already sold about 200 machines of the N4 throughout Europe.We will show the S1 and IN6 at the Productronica in München.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 10:31:31 am
content: Quote from: GerardG on November 04, 2019, 09:26:19 amWell I think it potentially looks interesting and if (and its a big if) the feeders&software are remotely any good it certainly fills the requirements of many people, a bigger brother with more feeders and a vision option might be an idea too. I build a lot of simple things this machine would in theory suite quite well, <30 line BOMS, runs of 20-250, no large or tall components and fairly static designs so it wouldn't matter if say the job/recipe creation bit of the software was a bit crap. However I also build even things where you'd 3 or 4 of these in a line to handle the component count before you even get to the fact its really quite narrow.The biggest problem to me would be the feedback I have heard on the Neoden 4 in relation to issues with general quality and the support that was on offer to sort out the issues arising from it.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2019, 01:39:03 pm
content: Hello SMTech,Support and spare part stock is located in the Netherlands.Or contact our UK dealerhttp://www.ams-electronics.co.uk/

author: Chad.Wagner
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 04:33:00 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on November 04, 2019, 05:23:22 amI am just a potential customer trying to find out as much as I can.I am also looking at the Neoden 4 or 3V with an IN6.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2019, 09:03:13 am
content: Watch the videos & tutorials on Youtube,they are quite revealing. The Neoden 4 is awful, I don't care how cheap it is the feeder system is ghetto. Stick to the machines that use proper feeders like this or the 7 or Charmhigh/YX etc etc.This machines key difference to the others is the electronic feeders and the fact it APPEARS to be a bit more like a smaller version of a more conventional machine with a bit more thought about how people will use it. Even on paper it still has its limitations like 8mm component height, unknown build quality, unknown level of smarts on the feeders (are they intelligent, fully pitch programmable, know if they jam etc), no vision.

author: NeoDen-Haimi
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 06, 2019, 05:45:01 am
content: This is Haimi from NeoDen.We just released S1 to the market,if any customer from Australia interesting this machine.You are warmly welcome to visit our AU agent office:Embedded Logic Solutions Pty. Ltd.Add:Unit 5, 23 Hunt StreetNorth Parramatta NSW 2151 AustraliaContact:Ramzi KattanPhone:61 2 9687 1880Website:www.emlogic.com.auThey display NeoDen7,NeoDenS1,NeoDen4 ,reflow oven IN6 and frameless printer FP2636.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2019, 08:40:46 am
content: Quote from: NeoDen-Haimi on November 06, 2019, 05:45:01 amI would never do business with Emlogic again. Worst customer support ever. Never in my entire business career, ( nearly 25 years ) have i had such a bad experience.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2019, 08:42:30 am
content: Quote from: Chad.Wagner on November 05, 2019, 04:33:00 amI'll take it at face value, but the last guy who started a pitch like this, suddenly became a PNP distributor in teh USA..

author: lilstevie
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2019, 08:58:36 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on November 06, 2019, 08:40:46 amYou're not the first person I've heard this from, which is unfortunate

author: rat9
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 05:26:47 am
content: I have 2 neoden TM-245p and 2 Neoden 4 machines, I think for the price the neoden 4 is pretty good if you don't need to change whats in the feeders often. Looking forward to the S1 if it has better vision and more accuracy.

author: Alicelllly2020
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2019, 07:11:04 am
content: Dear rat9,Thanks for your interest, this is Alice from Neoden.S1 does have better vision and higher accuracy, it could perfectly pick and place 0201. Please kindly check some videos of S1:1.S1 all-in-one electronic feeder:https://youtu.be/5wqNdsF1_B82.NeoDenS1 TQPF100 test video:https://youtu.be/c5CGV1in18E3.Neoden S1 BGA video:https://youtu.be/PyXk2rxWmwINo hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.Email: sales4@neodentech.comMob: +86-13588176839Skype: Alice-NeodenBest regards,Alice

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 02:32:26 pm
content: I have been testing the S1 for a few weeks now.The feeders are very good and I started placing 0201 after 1 day.Of coarse I am a bit biased as we already sold 200pcs of the Neoden 4 machines in Europe.The new electronic feeders of the S1 are a big improvement on the N4 feeders, and as a prototyping machine placed in the office it is nice that no compressor is needed.The S1 is a bit more noisy as the N4.Nice interface with touchscreen.The optional vibration feeder makes it possible to use 4 feeder positions or the vibration feeder.If any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

author: DogP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2019, 06:44:32 am
content: I'm definitely interested to hear any thoughts on the S1... I saw it at the IPC Apex Expo in January, and it seemed impressive for the size/cost. I'm surprised that it's not available yet since it looked close to finished back then.DogP

author: Alicelllly2020
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2019, 02:28:31 am
content: Quote from: DogP on December 05, 2019, 06:44:32 amThanks a lot for your interest in Neoden S1, it is a long-awaited machine.Here are some videos of S1 for your view:1.https://youtu.be/5iR7hr_czrw2.https://youtu.be/5wqNdsF1_B83.https://youtu.be/RXulxlqpnX84.https://youtu.be/c5CGV1in18E5.https://youtu.be/PyXk2rxWmwIBest regards,AliceEmail: sales4@neodentech.comMob: +86-13588176839Skype: Alice-Neoden

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2019, 10:49:28 am
content: Hello DogP,we had the S1 demo machine at the Productronica this year.There was a lot of interest for this machine because of the 0201 capability and the modular setup.We are expecting the first machines in stock at the end of Januari.Please contact the distributor for USA for more information.https://neodenusa.com

author: ACE5582
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 05:11:13 pm
content: Any updates on the user experience of the S1? I have two Neoden 3V-Advanced and would like to see an improvement on placement accuracy. The electronic feeders sound promising.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 21, 2020, 08:54:57 am
content: Hello ACE5582This is a new product of Neoden. We are the distributor for Europe.So a bit biased feedback. But I keep it as fair as possible.We have done some demonstrations with the S1. Compared to the 3V it is a completely different machine.It went from a tabletop hobby machine to a miniature production machine.It is very easy to swap feeders/reels.The 'on the fly' vision camera makes it a lot faster.It can place the 0201 components.On-board Linux controller with touchscreen interface.Automatic conveyor spacing, the width of the panel is saved to the pick and place file.The S1 has a higher price compared to the 3V and N4.On a restart you have to make sure that no PCB is on the conveyor. The S1 tries to initialize the conveyor during startup sequence.The on the fly camera can only check the smaller components. For the bigger components an extra camera needs to be installed.If interested I can post more about the S1 as we will ship out the first S1 production lines at the end of February.

author: ACE5582
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 21, 2020, 04:47:54 pm
content: Gerard,Thanks for the feedback. I don't need a machine that is faster than the 3V; just need something that is more accurate. If the S1 allows for better accuracy then that is a big plus. I would like to be able to set up a machine for a build, hit start, and forget about it until it is done placing all the parts. Currently, the 3Vs need to be babysat in case there is a problem with feeding or picking up a part. Also on the 3V, fine pitch parts need to be hand adjusted after placement. The 3V is certainly an improvement from my first machine (TM-240A). I am hoping the S1 would be an improvement over the 3V.I do have to say that Neoden's customer service has been very responsive any time I've had issues (replacing parts or questions).-ACE

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 16, 2020, 09:49:59 pm
content: Gerard, could you please tell more about software part? When N4 came out, I've read about some quite annoying shortcomings. Like not being able restarting the job where it stopped after reel of parts run out or not being able to calibrate things. So even though hardware looked impressive for the price, I decided to pass at that time.

author: GerardG
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 17, 2020, 03:56:43 pm
content: Hello Wrapper,The software is completely different from the N4. N4 uses a windows system and S1 a linux based system.N4 a keyboard, mouse and monitor. The S1 uses an touchscreen.After a component run out it is very easy to place a new tape in the feeder module and resume the job. This was also covered in the later software versions of the N4.I tried this many times on the S1 and it works without a problem on most feeders, I had a few pick-up failures on the 0201 after resume. I think this is because of the fine-tuning I still need to do.The N4 uses the machine coordinates. The S1 uses the board coordinates with shifted 0,0 point.S1 can have more special feeder locations for using cut tape and our SFT1000 tray.https://printtec.nl/contents/en-uk/p4128_SFT1000_Strip_Feeder_Tray.html

author: Gil Griffith
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 04, 2020, 10:19:43 pm
content: Hi ACE5582...We are the Neoden distributor in the USA and Canada, and we have several S1's in service now in North America.We have one on each coast in our showrooms, and are working up product videos and tutorials. I'm very impressed so far with how the S1 works, and am happy to answer any questions anyone may have.As they are relatively new to market, we are waiting on some testimonials from our first round of customers, which I will post on our site so you can hear it directly from end users, not just us sales folks.-Gil

author: Gerwin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 10:18:49 am
content: What are experience with Neoden S1? Is it reliable, accurate and stable?How does touchbase software works? Easy to use GUI?

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2020, 10:33:01 am
content: How many shills, sock puppets and one hit wonders does it take to sell a product ?

author: Gerwin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 09:44:15 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 16, 2020, 10:33:01 amI'm really interesting in this pnp machine. I have search for "Neoden S1 review". but didn't find anything. So I created account and ask here...

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:10:13 am
content: When over 1/2 the respondents in a thread either have direct interest in Sales of Neoden and several others have only ever made posts either leading or pro Neoden then lets just say they have form.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/entry-level-pick-and-place-machine-neoden/msg1959241/#msg1959241If you are serious about wanting information then start by having a read of this mega topic (yes I know it is a different mopdel but it might give you some clues)https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/neoden-4-pick-and-place/

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:14:22 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 17, 2020, 10:10:13 amWhat the point wasting time on that? It has completely different hardware and software.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:17:31 am
content: Quote from: wraper on March 17, 2020, 10:14:22 amWhats the point in your post with ZERO positive information in it to help? Troll off Wraper

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:27:19 am
content: Quote from: beanflying on March 17, 2020, 10:17:31 amSomeone who is only accusing people of things here says I needed to provide "POSITIVE INFORMATION TO HELP". If you read previous page I actually asked Gerard for information that matters and got the answer.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2020, 10:35:55 am
content: So you add nothing and my suggesting 'might help' is a problem how it was not definitive but a suggestion?Again Troll off you added have ZERO to help