Kicad 9.0.0 RC announced - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 06:07:33 pm
content: Twitted today by @kicad_pcb:Quote(https://x.com/kicad_pcb/status/1870871446597308559)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 07:10:17 pm
content: I tried to click on the various links but none bring me to a list with new features...

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 07:17:44 pm
content: Maybe try to scroll down the announcement post? The individual features are listed right there, including screenshots & even videos where relevant (such as multiple track dragging - nice!)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 07:24:46 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 22, 2024, 07:10:17 pmWhatever do you mean?!? That’s exactly what the first link does.

author: rteodor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 07:55:04 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 22, 2024, 07:24:46 pmIts one of these shody JS dependent webpages with lazy content loading (I suspect). Without JS there is no scrollbar and no ability to scroll. Only the content of the top viewframe is rendered and that is all.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 08:05:17 pm
content: Well, as much as I detest a lot of modern web design, if one chooses to disable JS entirely or severely undermine it with aggressive blockers, one cannot be surprised if sites sometimes break. Then one has to try with JS enabled or unblocked and see if it works.(I know from experience because I do run aggressive blockers and sometimes need to turn them off for a site to work.)

author: Hawaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 08:52:06 pm
content: IMO the addition of creepage DRC rule is one of the biggest new features. If properly implemented this is almost a game changer.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 08:58:24 pm
content: QuoteWhy would a window on my machine need to run JS just to show a scrollbar and page the window up and down? It's ridiculous, and IMO just shows the kind of mindset that thinks "Works great for me, everyone else better use the same apps I do in the same way I do." Not what you really want for some engineering tool.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 09:00:33 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on December 22, 2024, 08:58:24 pmBecause as we all know, the people writing the EDA are also writing the entire website from scratch, because reinventing every wheel you come across is a good use of time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 09:05:42 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on December 22, 2024, 08:58:24 pmIt ishighlyunlikely they developed their website themselves! It is almost certainly some off-the-shelf software package running some off-the-shelf skin.I completely agree that weshouldn’tneed JavaScript for basic web functions (nor for many advanced ones, frankly). But the fact is that asusersof the modern web, wedoneed it, because without it, tons of sites break.But my point is simply that if one chooses to disable one of the core technologies of the modern web, then many siteswillbreak, and that by choosing to disable it, one forfeits the right to complain that the web page doesn’t work.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 09:47:18 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 22, 2024, 09:00:33 pmThe website is the face of the project. When we whine about the RS or Farnell search parameters (or lack, thereof) we don't say, "Oh, that's just the web monkey and RS/Farnell have no control over them". No, we say that RS/Farnell themselves are responsible and crap.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 09:49:14 pm
content: QuoteYes, accepted. I perhaps misread your comment as not so much justification but acceptance.

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 10:32:38 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on December 22, 2024, 09:00:33 pmWell, they did code it from scratch, I was a part of the devs for the originalweb page.What's going on with the kicad.info page I don't know, it's a forum, and the owner is hidden.Somewhere down the line they changed the way it's hosted, before it was a simple web provider, now it seems they are hosting it on a kubernetes service.I suppose that is to be expected when the site grows.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 10:52:13 pm
content: Couldn't they at least have put the NEW info at the top of the scrollable list? Who wants to scroll past old info you already read? I'm not going to excuse that. I don't really care about other things.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 22, 2024, 11:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: Hawaka on December 22, 2024, 08:52:06 pmDifferent peoples have different wishes.The providedNew Features and Development Newslink has 69 posts, and nearly every one announces a new feature. With KiCad's quite steady release cycle (Beginning of each year, before FOSDEM) that is an average of more then one feature each week. And it's been going that way for a few years now. Every mayor KiCad release has it's ownNew Features and Development Newsthread on the forum. Once the new mayor version is released, the biggest and most important features are also announced on the official KiCad website.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 05:21:11 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on December 22, 2024, 10:52:13 pmSuperficially I'd agree with you, but I am so used to reading in order that I refuse to use the (online) newspaper 'live' page where they put the latest at the top. Main reason is I don't have the page open and watching it all the time, so when I visit my last read will be somewhere halfway down and impossible to find quickly. I don't want to read the latest first because then I'll skip the stuff that would otherwise have been interesting but I now can't find and has been made obsolete by the top of the page.And also it's a right drag to read some bit, scrolling down as you go, and then have to scrollupan indeterminate amount to get to the start of the next bit. And if the page is being updated in background the bit you're trying to read is being pushed down as you read it...No, it is serial text. Treat it as such.

author: BBBbbb
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 12:07:12 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on December 22, 2024, 09:47:18 pmWebsite of RS or Farnell is the product, they are literally web shops.KiCad is a free SW product that has a website.Of course I'm not going to hold them to the same standard.And I'm not even sure if the discussion is about kicad.org, or forum.kicad.info. If later, your comment makes even less sense.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 04:19:26 pm
content: Christ, people. Are you really complaining about the forum page that the free software project is using as a way to collaborate among developers to generate the release notes for the releasesometime in the futurewhile that release is still in development?Seriously?For your information, thoseare notthe actual release notes. Those are posted here, once the release is out (i.e. not for RCs and such):https://www.kicad.org/blog/categories/Release-Notes/

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 04:36:47 pm
content: Complaining about a web page. Just happens to be Kicad because that's where the link went, and doing it here because this is where it was posted, but I would complain about it whoever and whatever it was for.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 04:39:05 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on December 22, 2024, 09:49:14 pmWell, it is about acceptance. Or maybe not so much “acceptance” as “resignation”. I can hate modern web design as much as I want (which is a lot), but if I want to use the webtoday, then I have to use the modern web and its tools. It is what it is.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 04:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on December 22, 2024, 10:52:13 pmAt least it has a scroll bar at the right (the one with the dates) that is aware of the entire context — even the parts that haven’t lazy loaded yet — and makes it easy to scroll to the end in one step.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 04:48:40 pm
content: Quote from: Thor-Arne on December 22, 2024, 10:32:38 pmWell the link being discussed is the one on forum.kicad.info, which indeed is not even run by the KiCad devs! (Which I didn’t even realize at first.) The owner is not hidden, it’s stated right in the welcome post:https://forum.kicad.info/t/welcome-to-the-kicad-info-forums/6…and in the Terms of Service:https://forum.kicad.info/tosIt runs on discourse, by the way.

author: Thor-Arne
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 08:07:43 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 23, 2024, 04:48:40 pmYou're right.I was assuming that it was an official announcement, which in that case I would have been expecting it on kicad.org.In the context of the message I replied to, by Monkeh, I don't think my reply was that much off.Actually, I had completely forgotten all about kicad.info.Seems like it's way more official now than it was in the past as that post was made by Wayne Stambaugh.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 08:40:49 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on December 22, 2024, 07:24:46 pmNot for me. I get a posting dated somewhere in Februari with other seemingly random posts below it. Anything except something which looks like a (simple) summary of added features. Maybe it is a Firefox issue?

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 09:19:16 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on December 23, 2024, 08:40:49 pmYou see it but you get it wrong (I also use Firefox). It's a post beginning from February (when the 9.0 version development started) and as the text says, the (not random) posts below it, list all new features added over the year with quite comprehensive descriptions (not simple summaries). I guess when the final release is announced, there will be a summary also on the kicad.org site.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 09:21:23 pm
content: Nice to see a focus on new features, love it.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2024, 09:44:53 pm
content: Quote from: Thor-Arne on December 23, 2024, 08:07:43 pmYes, I did gloss over the distinction between the main site and the forum (actually I initially missed it as many have). Regardless, even if this were an officially operated forum, it's rather likely that the wheel wouldn't be reinvented. A basic website and a forum are quite different prospects.

author: JMK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2024, 08:21:08 am
content: For those who don't know:Kicad has an official website:https://www.kicad.org/Kicad also has a number of other websites in which the links may be found by opening the Kicad program → Help → About Kicad.Kicad also has a Forumhttps://forum.kicad.info/. The forum uses the "off the shelf" program fromhttps://discourse.org/Each year, a Stable version of Kicad is released, along with a Development version of Kicad. The stable version is for general use.The development version is for adding new features, as they are created, for the following year's stable release. The development version is available to anyone interested in trying out, giving opinions on, and finding bugs in, those new features. As the new features are added, they are announced on the Kicad forum in a thread titled (this release):https://forum.kicad.info/t/post-v8-new-features-and-development-news/48614.When the new release becomes official (usually late Jan or early Feb.), a blog is usually posted on the Kicad.org website detailing the list of new features in that new release.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 09:01:16 pm
content: I hope hope hope they will not break libraries for upgrading a design like every previous release. The amount of rework required to move a design to the next version makes me want to stick with one version and never upgrade. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed for me. Which also means I have to keep every version of KiCAD (5 and up) and libraries installed to manage older designs. Having multiple versions of my personal libraries is a pain to manage.To be clear, the libraries aren't (usually) broken but there have always been multiple problems that need correcting. Footprint doesn't match DRC warning is one example moving from 7 to 8. Yes, I can fix it by updating footprint from library for each component but if it DRC'd just fine in 7, why should I have to touch it in 8 (with the same rules)? It doesn't help when they keep playing around with the default DRC rules with each release. My 120 component board generated >400 warnings and errors when I moved it from 7 to 8. Fixing a few things and tweaking design rules got it down to like 50 but I usually burn about a day moving a given design to the next version. Way annoying when all I wanted to do was change a component footprint because the previous one is not in stock. That is an incentive against having all my products on the current KiCAD version.Despite my complaints, I think KiCAD is an awesome product and will continue to use it and even give them money on a regular basis.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 10:45:59 pm
content: The upgrade is always a bit of work yeah. But that's pretty much the same with most commercial EDA as well...For now, I keep 3 versions of KiCad (6, 7, 8 ) and when 9 is out, that'll switch to 7, 8, 9. That's to potentially avoid some new bugs on existing projects, but also just to be able to share projects, as many people tend to stick to older versions, especially in the professional world.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2025, 10:59:11 pm
content: QuoteNot found that with Altium, except when viewing a v22 project with v09 (but it just says it doesn't know about the new stuff and displays the board and schematic good enough anyway). Maybe I don't stress it enough

author: JMK
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2025, 03:26:42 am
content: As per usual, Personal Libraries need to be re-installed individually through Preferences > Manage Symbol/Footprint Libraries. It took me about 20 min. to install my total of 52.Kicad Libraries are installed along with the 9.0.0 program, again, as per usual, if you want them.

author: phil from seattle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 04:40:34 am
content: But I have to keep multiple versions of my libraries. Generally I will add a new part to my current version so the libs get out of sync. Not a huge problem but I might have to add the part to an older version at some later date. My point was that every single upgrade has had library issues.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 11:23:59 pm
content: That'd be good if they improved the updating process for sure. And supporting libraries from different versions would also be good. That would require carefully updating the symbol & footprint definitions when they add features to KiCad, but that sounds doable. As long as they keep the same file format (which is S-expressions IIRC), they could just:- Ignore unknown 'tags' when opening a newer version library with an older KiCad. Again, as long as they strive to keep backward compatibility with the existing tags.- Read and re-write (when saving) unknown tags verbatim when opening and saving a library made with a newer version, in an older KiCad. So that the library wouldn't get chopped off newer info when saving it with an older KiCad.- For that, any existing tag should be kept as is and not modified in any way in terms of syntax or functionality. If they add or change features, they should just create new tags for newer versions, and keep the old ones intact.Just my 2 cents.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 09:25:24 am
content: Quote from: JMK on January 02, 2025, 03:26:42 amThere is a much quicker way for this. You can edit the sym-lib-table and fp-lib-table files directly with a text editor. If you do this with a source code merge program such as meldmerge.org then it is done within a minute (or two).Also, these files are in KiCad's configuration directory (~/.config/kicad/8.0on my linux box) Each mayor KiCad version has it's own directory (with the version number). You can make a copy of this whole directory to make a backup, and if you even delete the whole directory, not much harm is done because KiCad just assumes it is started for the first time, and it creates a new directory with it's default settings. I have a bunch of such renamed copies, as I have experimented a bit with weird settings in the past.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 10:12:23 am
content: I am thouroughly impressed.Having had a long experience with FOSS in general, I must admit that KiCAD is nowadays a rare example of software that is not only of a good quality already, but is also being steadily developed to receive new useful features and is targeted at intelligent and proficient users, as opposed to the industry's general trend of removing features and overall simplification to benefit stupidity and ignorance.When I first tried it (it was version 7 I believe), I did not like it and thought that it was yet another half-baked FOSS product of a very limited and inconsistent usability. I was wrong. It became better after I learned how to deal with its (and ngspice's) pecularities and certain rough corners, and on top of that it becomes very significantly better with each subsequent release.I just hope that the team working on it stay on the course.p.s. of course I will start using the 9.0 RC without waiting for its final release. There's no reason not to.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 10:14:32 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 04, 2025, 11:23:59 pmHave you considered posting this as a feature request in their issue tracker, if a similar one doesn't exist yet? That'll make it more likely to get attention and maybe someone's actual coding hours than a post here on the forum.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:45:46 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 01, 2025, 10:59:11 pmAltium is quite unusual in its file format being forward- and backward-compatible. I have a background in the software industry (despite not being a programmer myself, ironically) so I understand why most software is incapable of opening files from later versions than itself. It takes a care and effort to design the software architecture (and consequently the file format, which usually mirrors the software’s object model fairly tightly) such as to be flexible in the file format.(Other than Altium, the only common “complex” document formats that work this way are basically MS Office and LibreOffice and similar.)

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:52:22 pm
content: QuoteThat's kind of forgivable, but it's not what's being discussed here, which is later software not being compatible with the previous stuff (or even having an up-converter).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 12:59:18 pm
content: Quote from: PlainName on January 06, 2025, 12:52:22 pmAhem:Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2025, 12:45:46 pmIt is extremely odd that KiCad has issues when upgrading libraries, but it sounds like it’s not so much the file format as it is the upgrade process in their code, which omits certain steps needed to “synchronize” the state of everything in the project.

author: cathodeninetails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 06, 2025, 10:11:01 pm
content: FYI, KiCad is always compatible witholderfiles (project, schematic, PCB, symbols and footprints). If it's not, that is a bug. Libraries made in version 5 and earlier will need to be "migrated" to the current version to upgrade them so they can be edited, but they can be read even without that. Libraries from version 6, 7 and 8 can be used just as the stock libraries. If you changed and save out a v6/7/8 file, it'll be upgraded to the v9 format.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2025, 07:50:39 am
content: well, having to use v9 files only in v9 seems a downside to some people but not for me. it is a free open source software, upgrading is free and no reason to never upgrade.I was hoping at some point the upgrade is done within the software itself like "check for updates" or so. also, i previously talked about the possibility of making it more of an all-in-one integrated package not like the current status of different software packages in one (eschema, pcbnew, etc..). this is a good modernization which is well worth the effort but devs are the ones with final word.i used v6 onwards, and gotta say it is really fantastic how such a powerful tool exists as a free open source tool! it is a matter of time until it actually gets all features which are exclusive to very expensive packages.

author: cathodeninetails
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 09, 2025, 08:53:41 am
content: QuoteThere is an integrated update check on Windows and Mac. Linux systems should get updates via their package managers.QuoteMoving to a tabbed/multi-window-capable multi-document interface is tentatively on the v10 roadmap:https://youtu.be/BP8VD9FviWk?t=1978

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2025, 10:11:17 am
content: QuoteSo you're already on Windows 11 and will happily move to Windows 12 however Microsoft decide to screw it up and/or infest it with cloud reliance?

author: delfinom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2025, 03:00:41 pm
content: Quote from: VEGETA on January 09, 2025, 07:50:39 amThey aren't different software packages, they share the same DLLs and code. The separate executables are "standalone mode" shims. They barely contain any code and simply load the tools from the DLLs.If you run "kicad.exe", the separate executables are not used at all.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2025, 12:12:28 am
content: Quote from: delfinom on January 13, 2025, 03:00:41 pmYes. And I don't mind the separate applications, although that may look "outdated" at first sight.The "modern" approach would be to integrate all in a single application, but then run each part in a different process (like most "modern" apps now do) and the ability to detach some parts in separate windows - to use a multi-monitor setup for instance. So, in the end, the exact same thing except that it would take unnecessary development work and introduce new bugs.

author: VEGETA
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2025, 12:48:18 pm
content: Quote from: cathodeninetails on January 09, 2025, 08:53:41 ami meant to update the software with a button choice instead of uninstalling + installing.it is nice to see the all-in-one package feature!! really modernizing the software and will be tempting to newer audience in all engineering spheres.i believe it will be one project file then internally you can check multiple files like schematic and pcb... or keep separate files but use one software. anything is better than current situation.maybe in 2026 this will happen since v9 is still not officially announced.

author: delfinom
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2025, 02:02:09 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 16, 2025, 12:12:28 amThat isn't the modern approach. That's just a web browser. No other CAD suite does this.

author: djsb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2025, 06:39:28 pm
content: Version 9.00 release candidate 2 announcedhttps://forum.kicad.info/t/stable-version-9-0-0-rc2-available/57708

author: Bzzz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2025, 11:48:39 am
content: The Kicad 9 release train has left the station:https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/commit/286b0611feca00727bf70bfa184ec2c28a745dc3Windows x64:https://downloads.kicad.org/kicad/windows/explore/stable/download/kicad-9.0.0-x86_64.exeOther builds currently in queue.(choo-choo!)