Inventor claims circuit that can wirelessly power LCD TV 3m away - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 03:27:14 pm
content: Hello Everyone,An inventor from the country where I reside claims to be able to charge a multitude of devices and power an LCD TV wirelessly up to 3m away from the transmitter without needing any alignment between the transmitter and receiver. The inventor also claims to be able to interface with Qi devices (!!) without any extra circuitry.I’m livid because she’s started suing a number of people in the country who criticised her device, has been scamming institutions and companies for money, and almost convinced a friend of mine to invest with her. I’ve talked him out of it, analysed the patent on my own, and am skeptical the device works as intended much less work at all.However it’s been a while since I did any electronics work, and so I’d appreciate extra input and possible help in proving this is a fraud.Here’sthe patent for anyone interested and thank you in advance.

author: Andy Chee
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 03:36:50 pm
content: Unfortunately, a dodgy patent is not enough documentation to prove fraud.For fraud, you need the documentation for bank transactions as well.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 03:44:21 pm
content: Agreed. I at least want to make the case that it doesn’t work, since she’s suing people on the basis that the invention does work and they’re “slandering her work.”

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 03:55:21 pm
content: I am not a lawyer, but at first glance I suspect that patent is unenforceable, and likely should never have been issued, since patents require the invention to be new, non-obvious, and not violate the laws of physics. The USPTO can (and IMHO should have, in this case) ask for a working model.But yeah, I suspect this patent would be easy to defeat in court, in USA at least. (Though doing so would still cost many thousands of $ in lawyer fees.)

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 04:44:22 pm
content: Which jurisdiction issued the patent?Real inventions are usually submitted for patents in multiple jurisdictions, such as the USPTO (US) and EPO (Europe).

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 04:45:42 pm
content: There you go, thank me later for not investing.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 05:31:16 pm
content: If you're willing to have it operate at very low efficiency, with a huge transmitting coil. Sure it could work.The only way to send wireless energy in a room at decent efficiency is the Disney way. You make the entire room a shielded cavity, which can resonate with relatively low loss. Most people here don't like that method very much though.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 05:35:27 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 09, 2024, 04:44:22 pmThe patent was issued by the USPTO.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 05:38:07 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on September 09, 2024, 05:31:16 pmI’ve seen the Disney method and my extreme dislike of it aside, the patent isdefinitelynot doing that. The patent and claimant make no claim on the space itself, and she is quite confident about its ability to work in a wide variety of scenarios.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 05:38:45 pm
content: Quote from: Haenk on September 09, 2024, 04:45:42 pmThank you for a hearty chuckle!

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 06:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on September 09, 2024, 03:55:21 pmseems all they asked for was that the patent fee was paid

author: schmitt trigger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 07:55:11 pm
content: I had previously seen the Zimbabwean “inventor”, Maxwell Chikumbutso.He is respected in Zimbabwe as the “African Nikola Tesla”, and any attempt to question the technical aspects of his invention or the methods to prove its feasibility, are simply dismissed as western jealousy.

author: E-Design
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2024, 07:56:12 pm
content: Quote from: abstraxt on September 09, 2024, 03:44:21 pmSo isnt the burden of proof on her then that it indeed does work and so the slander would be valid?

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 03:34:42 am
content: Quote from: schmitt trigger on September 09, 2024, 07:55:11 pmThis is pretty close to what is happening over here, just replace Zimbabwe with Kuwait and Maxwell with Jenan.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 03:39:16 am
content: Quote from: E-Design on September 09, 2024, 07:56:12 pmPartly yes, but things here work a little differently. Basically, since she’salready“recognised” (i.e. the state has awarded her on multiple occasions), and since she’s the one filing a “defamation” (not exactly the same here but close enough) lawsuit, the people being sued first have to prove they have reasonable claims against her before she’s then forced to prove her “invention” actually works. It’s innocent until proven guilty for her, guilty until proven innocent for the people she sues.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 05:19:51 am
content: Shame on the patent offices for letting such a complete load of garbage be awarded a patent.No care was taken with the schematic to make it even look like it would work, it's nonsense.First thing that jumps out is the connection of R4.You'd at least think they'd have drawn a bridge circuit for that loopAt closer inspection every part of that patent is complete shit.Patents application content validity is obviously not even considered anymore.

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 07:32:28 am
content: Quote from: Xena E on September 10, 2024, 05:19:51 amIt’s so bad I still don’t get how she made it this far.I’m tempted to throw it into ngSpice and see what it actually does.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 05:09:59 pm
content: It would do nothing interesting to simulate the circuit.Both sets of Mosfets are directly across the supply. In the event hardware were built and they were switched there would be a big bang.I suggest the patent should be reviewed, and repealed, but I wouldn't hold out much hope of any satisfactory outcome: they obviously don't care.RegardsX

author: showman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 06:58:15 pm
content: Well it is just a common self-resonant ZVS/Mazzilli driver with couple of connections messed up in the schematic (but generally described correctly in the text). R4 should be a pulldown for Q1-Q4, D2 should go from R3 to drains of Q1-Q4 and D1 should go from R2 to drains of Q5-Q8, corrected schematic in the attachment. Also C5 is probably unnecessary or even detrimental and it's not ideal to parallel MOSFETs like that.It is at best a fun DIY project which people have been doing since forever (for example the youtube video is from 12 years ago), and asking money for is of course being stupid/naive or trying to scam people. Same goes for the rest of the patent. My favorite part is her suggestion of using a freaking op-amp to amplify the received power and agraphitecore for the receiving coil.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 10, 2024, 07:18:24 pm
content: Just as an FYI, the USPTO will not present the same patent application to a given patent examiner again, to avoid bias. So a resubmission always goes to a new patent examiner. But the consequence is that one strategy for getting trash patents issued is to submit it again and again. Each time it gets denied, it exhausts a patent examiner who is a subject matter expert. Eventually you exhaust all of the subject matter experts, and it lands on the desk of an examiner who doesn’t know the field, and since they don’t understand why it won’t work, if it looks superficially plausible, they issue it. :/

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 05:37:01 am
content: Quote from: showman on September 10, 2024, 06:58:15 pmI will not dispute the intention, (edit: of using the ZVS topology), though if it's wrong it's wrong! And I doubt it would work as applied. however if a design or outline of a design is wrong as in this case the patent is void and easily challenged.Also if it is"just a common circuit"it most definitely should not have been awarded a patent , as it is prior art.As for the rest of it it's just a joke.It's a shame that shit like this is allowed to gain validity by the patent offices, it's purpose only being to get on the investment merry-go-round.Regards,X

author: abstraxt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 02:36:56 pm
content: Quote from: Xena E on September 10, 2024, 05:09:59 pmDespite having very little faith in it working out, I might give this a try.Quote from: showman on September 10, 2024, 06:58:15 pmThe text might describe the circuit more correctly, but the moment you delve deeper into it, the reasons for using certain components are… odd.Quote from: tooki on September 10, 2024, 07:18:24 pmMy guess from theexaminer’s ratingis that is what ended up happening.Quote from: Xena E on September 11, 2024, 05:37:01 amThis is pretty much what it is unfortunately: a blatant money grab.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 03:48:48 pm
content: It is hard for a second party to infringe a patent where the invention does not work.

author: showman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 04:57:04 pm
content: Quote from: Xena E on September 11, 2024, 05:37:01 amProbably yes, but I don't know much about patent rules and laws. Interestingly the "Other Publications" section in the patent refers to Würth Elektronik app note "High Power Wireless Power Transferfor the Industrial Environment" from 2016, that is 2 years before the filing of the patenthttps://www.we-online.com/components/media/o109044v410%20AppNotes_ANP032_HighPowerWirelessPowerTransferForTheIndustrialEnvironment_EN.pdfGuess what is on the second page. The same basic circuit.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 11, 2024, 07:47:31 pm
content: That's fun. I wonder if the "inventor" got that from ChatGPT.

author: Electrodynamic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 04:11:26 pm
content: abstraxtQuoteOdd can be innovative but it depends on the context and a persons experience.For example, we see a transistor or diode(s) placed backwards in a circuit. The majority of people would say this is a mistake and the work of an amateur. However I have used backwards transistors ie. 2N2222 as negative resistance oscillators and backwards or back to back diodes as a serial threshold device. However if a person doesn't understand how this works or why we would use this configuration then it would be easy to think it's a mistake when it's not.One switching circuit I built which confounds everyone is back to back N mosfets with both gates tied together and triggered by a 2N2222A transistor with an open base wire not connected to anything. Nobody I showed the circuit to including my EE friends had any idea how it could work or what it does when in fact it's easy. It's a variable threshold device similar to a triac but not dependent on a zero crossing. So when the base of the 2N2222 detects a passive positive ionization it turns on the mosfets. The load current then travels through the first mosfet and through the bypass body diode of the second reversed mosfet. This is an AC device like a triac however the load current ceases the moment the positive ionization on the base of the 2N2222 drops below a critical level. I used it as a passive AC switching device using a high voltage source (5-500kV)as the input signal.So the average person can look at something like this and see nothing. Nothing registers because it is so far removed from what they consider normal but this doesn't imply the circuit element doesn't have a purpose.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 05:17:42 pm
content: Quote from: Electrodynamic on September 25, 2024, 04:11:26 pmIn that case would you be so kind as to tell us what your opinion of the schematic in the patent.For instance, details such as the resistor shown with a short circuit drawn around it, is it an example of a design from a person who's intelligence is set apart from the rest of us mere mortals, and if so we would be fascinated to learn it's purpose, if of course you think that we are not so stupid that we would have no hope of understanding your explanation.Thanks in advance.Regards,X

author: Electrodynamic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2024, 11:52:38 pm
content: XenaQuoteWithout a patent, references or any component values it's difficult to say what's happening. Is this circuit a Tx or Rx in the supposed wireless system?.QuoteOne minor mistake is nothing to get worked up over and I have seen countless patents by multinational corporations do far worse. Many only show a few box diagrams with literally no details and expect everyone to take it on faith that it works. Of course, if your a multinational corporation your first in line and the patent is basically rubber stamped without question, money talks.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 12:05:55 am
content: I've been wirelessly powering TVs from several metres away since the 1970s. That's what remote controls are for.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 12:19:49 am
content: This made the news at least a few years ago now. Obvious fraud.

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 05:48:12 am
content: Quote from: coppice on September 26, 2024, 12:05:55 amDamn... beaten me to itBut yes, that guy is more of a chancer than an inventor. I hope he got rightfully punished for it...

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 05:48:46 am
content: Quote from: Electrodynamic on September 25, 2024, 11:52:38 pmSo, you commented on an at that time 16 post thread without even reading it? The patent was linked and I had for an example posted an extract of the first schematic in the patent. It was a bogus patent application with poorly copied pre-existing technology documentation.Side NoteQuote from: Electrodynamic on September 25, 2024, 04:11:26 pmIf ... you wish to encourage comment on your undoubtedly incredible design prowess in future, it may be worthwhile your starting a new thread, and include schematics, (complete with obsolete T018 transistors, and their A suffix versions), as well as functional explanations. Knowledge must be shared so that mankind can be enriched, otherwise the academically brilliant persons talent is wasted.A thread in this section would be appropriate. Or better still a forum that caters for creative writers.Best Regards.X(An ordinary person - guaranteed)

author: Electrodynamic
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2024, 04:07:55 pm
content: EEVblogQuoteI would agree it's a bogus patent.There is some more credible new wireless power tech coming out recently. Every year the range and efficiency seems to increasing.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230721113243.htm

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2024, 08:14:20 pm
content: Quote from: Electrodynamic on September 26, 2024, 04:07:55 pmHmm, not sure what to think about this press release. While it is not a crazy wild claim (5x spacing to coil size and still 80% efficiency), it still seems like a big deal to me. I'm skeptical.When the paper came out some years ago that sparked the beginning of Witricity (anyone remember them?), I had the job of vetting the tech for my then employer. The paper was basically the solution of two coupled resonant coils, including eddy current losses, by some MIT physicists. Nothing new, yet it got a lot of traction and investment dollars because the solution was so old it had been forgotten, and you know, MIT.I'm sure the founders were laughing all the way to the bank. I sure hope so, because it would make me sad if those authors actually believed they found something new. The only new thing was advanced semiconductors for power electronics that let you do something with the coils.Anyway, too bad this new paper is behind a paywall. Just curious if it's BS, an error of some sort calculating coil loss, etc.,...John

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 04:08:44 am
content: Oh no, dear God, no... Was this by way of the United States office ? (USPTO) ?With no evidence, but incompetence, they possible have been implementing WOKE culture, internal. Diversity, equity, and uh...some other 'ity' I cannot remember off the top of my head.Diversity, and maybe COVID causing 'remote' granting, of Patent applications.Good God, I should rush something through for myself.Uh; Led flashlight, with attached CHAIR...hmmm

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 04:12:54 am
content: I'd hide a 36 bolt supply, underneath, and have a metal sectioned table. That way each TV leg rests on a separate metal surface and deal with inverting the DC input.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 06:05:10 pm
content: Quote from: RJSV on October 25, 2024, 04:08:44 amNah sweetheart! already been done. Some tool who thinks he's a robotics/software designer has already come up with that.X