EEVblog #674 - Rigol DS1054Z Teardown - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 11:25:01 am
content: Dave tears down the new US$399 Rigol 4 channel 50MHz DS1054Z oscilloscope.How can they get such incredible value for the price?Datasheets:Hittite HMCAD1511 ADC:https://www.hittite.com/content/documents/data_sheet/hmcad1511.pdfProASIC 3 FPGAhttps://www.actel.com/documents/PA3_DS.pdfSRAM:http://www.cypress.com/?mpn=CY7C1360C-200BGCFreescale iMX283 Applications Processor: cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/IMX28CEC.pdf

author: dentaku
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 12:42:00 pm
content: This puts the DS1074Z in a weird place where it's still a nice 4CH scope for the price but not terribly different from the DS1054Z which is quite a bit cheaper.

author: godFather89
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 12:43:02 pm
content: I'm curious to see a DS1074Z-S teardown. Maybe we can mod the DS1054Z to add signal generation functionality.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 12:49:02 pm
content: Quote from: godFather89 on October 15, 2014, 12:43:02 pmThe 'S' version has a separate daughter board module, which from memory plugs into the pins on the top right of the main pcb. From there leads go over to the cutouts on the left.There are photos of it on the net.Update 'where' were photos on the net... which I now cannot find.

author: ziq8tsi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 01:26:51 pm
content: I had noticed that the LEDs for the LA and Source buttons flash briefly through the holes in the front panel at power on.I am not sure it is even a mistake to fit them. Theoretically they could stock four different populations of that board internally, and then use the correct one when assembling each model. That could very easily cost more than the LED or two it saves.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 01:29:33 pm
content: Why is buying the 1052E crazy? Its now available for around half the price of the 1054Z

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 01:41:41 pm
content: The Chinese characters down the edge of the power supply board are the colours of the attached wires. Clearly these are instructions to the assembly workers, and need to be in Chinese.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 02:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 15, 2014, 01:41:41 pmVery true. I have some RGB LED strips in front of me, the contacts are marked R G B. Do you think the Red wire goes to the R and Green wire goes to the G and Blue wire goes to the B.... They never even tested them, when connected to its own controller Red coloured button = Green Leds and so on...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 02:17:44 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on October 15, 2014, 02:03:29 pmThis sometimes happens because they change LED types to ones with a different pinout

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 02:29:13 pm
content: BUT , can it be hacked to 100mHz

author: JJalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 04:10:18 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on October 15, 2014, 02:29:13 pmOr maybe even 100MHz/Jonas

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 04:20:44 pm
content: Quote from: JJalling on October 15, 2014, 04:10:18 pmI'd love an old analogue 100mHz scope. But just imagine the amount of phosphor needed? I think they rely on pen on paper plotting for that kind of thing.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 04:30:18 pm
content: *oops, this is what you get when you leave a tab open for too long before replying*The printing of chinese characters ("Black", "Yellow" etc) on the power board is to aid the production line workers. They are most likely not educated enough to know what they are putting together. So it is safer to just print the character representing the matching wire colour on the board.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:12:58 pm
content: if its really a varicap + digital potentiometer I wouldnt even bother with reverse engineering software, just whack attiny in there and additional button that forces full bandwidth (I assume they use this design so you can limit bandwidth to cut aliasing, so no point hard modding to 100MHz).that LA also looks doable, just need fpga + memory + 2 stabilizers, and a dump from someone who performed firmware upgrade (again assuming firmware upgrade also upgrades fpga firmware)lovely compact design at a great price point, bug thumbs up to rigol (unlike their shitty still broken power supplies)

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:13:09 pm
content: Quote from: Towger on October 15, 2014, 12:49:02 pmhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/jameslothian/sets/72157645222357567/(pictures are not mine; credit to James!)The 1074Z-S still fits a gap where you want a low-end scope with signal generator or logic analyzer, but don't need the 100MHz and could save 170$ that way.Having said that, the 1074Z-S is a 840$ scope, and the 1104Z-S is a 1000$ scope. At that point the 160$ difference is there, but clearly not as spectacular.

author: sergey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:32:35 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 15, 2014, 01:29:33 pmNor really if we're talking about prices of brand-new units from rigol and like official distributors? Sure if you can find 1052E for a half of the price it's not crazy at all

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:46:36 pm
content: I really liked the overlay pictures.

author: sweesiong78
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pm
content: dave, start pronouncing 'Z' like we do, 'zee'

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:48:32 pm
content: Yesterday We had a meeting with two Rigol representatives (short portfolio presentation) who had no idea that ds1054z existsA second thing which blew my mind was a number of Rigol employees. Anyway. I still like their devices even after this experience

author: sergey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 05:59:52 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 05:48:32 pmThis makes me curious what the number of Rigol employees is.

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:08:52 pm
content: The all-discrete frontend really impresses me. Especially since it's 2014 and you could just buy a LMH6518 and call it a day. Way more expensive though...I cannot find a comparator for the trigger, so it seems like they're doing digital trigger based on the ADC samples. When sampling on 4 channels ad 250MSa/s each with 100MHz bandwidth, that's barely over nyquist. Interesting to see what trigger jitter is like...

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:11:49 pm
content: Quote from: sergey on October 15, 2014, 05:59:52 pmI hope I will not break a gentleman's code if I tell that a presentation mentioned +400 employees. I expected way more...update:Well, I see it is not confidential:http://rigol.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmDIAF.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:45:43 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmSo how do you pronounce "C" (also 'zee') ?You Yanks don't know proper English.C = zeeZ = set

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:49:23 pm
content: I can't wait for the full review, I have already ordered one and can't wait to get it.I was going to buy the DS1074z, but that is really obsolete at this point, because after the 'upgrade' they would both be 100MHz with the same features.Maybe the Intensity Grading isn't as good, but I for almost $ 200 less I can live with that.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 06:51:03 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmI'm with Dave, but then again I'm an Amateur Radio operator, probably makes me a bit biased.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:11:09 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on October 15, 2014, 06:49:23 pmAs the owner of DS1074z I am really getting lost in all those information. You say that ds1054z has a different intensity grading that ds1074z or 1104z ?I think the last conclusion was that all models have identical HW, right ?

author: sweesiong78
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:16:02 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on October 15, 2014, 06:51:03 pmdont you use phonetic alphabet 'zebra' then? sounds more like zee to me

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:16:56 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 07:16:02 pmZ is Zulu.I suggest you learn to cope with the proper pronounciation.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:17:13 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmBecause the world will surely fall apart if the alphabet song doesn't rhyme.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:26:09 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 07:11:09 pmI am confused as well about the hardware differences, I think the hardware of the DS1074Z and the DS1054Z is the same (or similair) and that the Dave mentioned the grading isn't as good as the DS2000 series. Doesn't the DS1074z have 2 more buttons?I have just noticed that on the Rigol website the product page for the DS1054Z they used a picture of the DS1104Z and it has one extra button above the input jack 2.Even Rigol has now so many versions of the same scope that they only bother to take 1 picture. Maybe Rigol is also confused.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:28:12 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on October 15, 2014, 07:26:09 pmNo. The -S model has one more button, the MSO1000Z has one more button, the MSO1000Z-S has two more buttons.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:49:25 pm
content: Ok, so if the hardware on the DS1054z and the DS1074z are identical, then why would anyone buy the DS1074z for $ 186 USD more? Because that is really not worth the extra 20MHz, plus after the upgrade/hack they are both at 100MHz. Personally I think Rigol made a bit mistake releasing this scope at this price, they should have made it $ 499 USD, but I am not complaining.Now they are hurting the sale of the DS1052E at $ 329 USD and DS1074Z at $ 580 USD, which both are now becoming a bad choice if you want your best bang for your buck.From a business prospective they have left $ 100 on the table, I would have bought the unit if it was $ 499, heck I was ready to pay $ 580 for the same unit!Also were are they going from here? If the DS1052E started at $ 800 and now is $ 329 (50% and more off). That would mean the DS1054Z will cost $ 199 in 4 years? CrazY!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 07:51:43 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on October 15, 2014, 07:49:25 pmBecause educational establishments and small businesses generally do not use keygens to unlock features.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 08:22:21 pm
content: Quote from: Rutger on October 15, 2014, 07:26:09 pmWell, as I said before. Yesterday, those two Rigol representatives had no idea about existence of DS1054z and it was very surprising for them that I know more about their scopes then they do (sometimes). Thanks eevblog !Even though I consider them very new to their position (FAE & salesman) it was a pleasure to talk with them. For me it is somehow unbelievable how such a small company ("+400 people show") can do such nice products, especially considering the price point. Their spectrum analyser or RF generator were also very nice.I also have a feeling that the "hack possibility" is a part of their business strategy. Just imagine what happens: They can sell maybe hundreds of ds1104z to some companies or universities but I am sure that they will sell thousands to hobbyists. They sell probably exactly same units, but officials will never do hacks. At least I can't imagine my company having a hacked scopes. Nobody would not even think about it.The result is that when my FW colleague asked me for a cheap oscilloscope with a serial decoding, which he can have on his desk as long as project lasts, I would tell him "buy ds1104" because I know that he can easily afford it from his project budget and it works enough for him. That is the point. I mean I have ds1000 series at home, I know what it is capable of and I usually know what he needs. HAMEG3000 series is nice but it is a waste of money for someone who just needs an elementary functionality with eg. serial decoding trigger.Of course I am not saying that RIGOL is the best. I just want to say that many high-end scopes are generally used whole lifecycle for elementary measurements only. It makes me sad when I see some of my FW colleagues desperately pushing the autoset button on our Waverunner 6zi trying to get a dutycycle measurement...btw: I told them they should update their webpage and also put there a latest firmware !

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 08:48:15 pm
content: I am surprised the Wikipedia site for Rigol has one linehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigol

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 08:53:37 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 08:22:21 pmSince you also mentioned Hameg, you know that Hameg are only 60 persons? Before R&S bought them they were 120. R&S killed Hameg's own production, to get the cost down. So that's probably what the missing 60 persons were doing.QuoteThat's the advantage of being in China.

author: Rutger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 09:13:49 pm
content: Here is my take on the Rigol selection guide;

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 09:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 15, 2014, 08:53:37 pmQuoteI had no idea. I feel bad for themThey did a good job with 3000 series.

author: max666
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 11:07:48 pm
content: What did Dave mean, when he said "Agilent really helped them out there and they are regretting that big time now"?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 11:10:58 pm
content: http://youtu.be/kb9P1Am9aFUI like the metal shileding of DS1054Z and metal rotary encoders. In Agilent scopes, they are plastic.I do not like theCapXoncapacitors in the switched power supply. I have read bad reports about them.Some day, the CapXons might go off and kill the motherboard.http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?p=39119(In DS2000 there are EPCOS capacitors according to Dave's teardown.]

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 11:18:49 pm
content: Quote from: max666 on October 15, 2014, 11:07:48 pmAgilent helped Rigol to launch production of Agilent DSO1000 and DSO3000. Rigol learned something and started production of their own scopes. Or something like that is how the story happened.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:37:19 am
content: Quote from: godFather89 on October 15, 2014, 12:43:02 pmIf you could enabled the option in software, then yes, that would be interesting. The hardware is likely FPGA based though, not just discrete hardware.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:41:46 am
content: Quote from: sergey on October 15, 2014, 05:32:35 pmIf you absolutely only have that amount of cash, then yes, it's an option. The 1054Z is 10 times the scope for less than double the price.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:42:23 am
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmNo.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:44:44 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 07:11:09 pmIt is. All 1000Z's are the same. They are different from the DS2000.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:51:46 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 08:22:21 pmThey likely have the vast majority devoted to engineering and production, and not sales. Unlike other companies like my former employer Altium who had 300+ at one point and the number of programmers actually working on their one core product you could count on both hands.QuoteIt's not. That comes directly from them.They know they can't stop it, and they don't rarely care much because as much as we think it matters in our circles, and "everyone does it", the truth is vast majority of buyers do not even know the scope is hackable, and wouldn't do so even if they did.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 12:55:26 am
content: Quote from: Hydrawerk on October 15, 2014, 11:18:49 pmYes, Agilent bought Rigol on board to design and manufacture their low end scopes (the Agilent 3000 & 1000 series, not the 3000X series). And Agilent didn't just take it and rebadge it, they helped Rigol with design, production, and firmware quality systems. Now they have created a monster and they deeply regret it.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:14:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2014, 12:37:19 amYup, reply #14 by hans, has pictures of the -S model with the daughter board featuring an Altera Cyclone IV EP4CE22F17C8N strange that it's an 8 class speed, it's the same FPGA as the DE0-Nano but class 8 instead of 6.

author: EMC
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:20:57 am
content: Teriffic teardown. When a review unit becomes available I suggest a comparision of 3-5 like scopes would be better than a review. When making the decision to buy a bench scope I am not just thinking "for my applications what can it do & how well does it perform"; I am also comparing to competitors. For me this includes remote operation and automated testing.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:25:32 am
content: Quote from: EMC on October 16, 2014, 01:20:57 amThe problem with scope comparison is the time it takes. A proper full review video will likely be pushing an hour. A full comparison with other would be much longer. And stuff will still get missed or skimmer over in either case.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:34:12 am
content: Quote from: sergey on October 15, 2014, 05:32:35 pmI don't know what they are asking in the west, but right now in China the 1052E is about 60% of the prices of the 1054Z.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:53:08 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on October 15, 2014, 06:11:49 pmYou can't really make sense of an employee count unless you know the company culture. If they outsource massive amounts of their work, they won't need so many people of their own. A company in Shenzhen can easily outsource practically everything, as they are surrounded by other companies specialising in everything you can think of. I think its harder to do that in Beijing, if that is actually where most of Rigol's engineering and production occurs. There just isn't the scale of manufacturing there to support sufficient service companies.Logistics is the main reason manufacturing spreads so slowly into the Chinese hinterland. They have superb road and rail communication to most places. You can set up a large heavy system in a lab in Shenzhen, and have it sitting in place on a production line far away the next morning. Still, many places deep inside China that have tried to build up manufacturing bases find logistics a huge hindrance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 03:55:27 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 16, 2014, 02:49:57 amIt's the stuff of blogger nightmares!

author: mauroh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 08:26:54 am
content: I was wondering if the resistors to set the hardware version are related to the model or just to the manufacturing date and I collected the info I was able to quickly find on the forum:DS1054Z Dave TeardownDS1074Z-S James Lothian TeardownDS1104Z Connor Wolf TeardownIn this case the DS1054Z and DS1074Z-S have the same resistor configuration while the DS1104Z have a different one.Since the first 2 were opened in the last few months (I guess also bought and manufactured recently) and the Connor one is older I think it is just related to the manufacturing date.I don’t know if this is related also to some part of the firmware that can’t be updated with a normal upgrade.By the way I bought almost one year ago a DS1074Z and Riglolled to DS1104Z full option and so far I’m really happy with this marvelous oscilloscope.As far as I’m aware the new firmware version (>4) has not been hacked yet so the DS1054Z is only potentially-hackable at the moment.M’I correct?Mauro

author: leppie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 08:37:19 am
content: Quote from: mauroh on October 16, 2014, 08:26:54 amCant see any difference

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 08:56:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2014, 12:51:46 amEven in this circle there's plenty of doubters, people who are 100% sure itMUSTbe different, somehow (although they don't know how...)

author: Fagear
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 10:56:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 16, 2014, 01:25:32 amI've tried toreview DS1104Z-S(russian language) some time ago and it take me almost 2 and a half hours!Internal AWGtook another 40 minutes.And I had never touched remote operation...DS1000Z vs. DS2000Atook another hour.Sorry, all videos are in Russian, maybe I'll do English subtitles for them one day... But still, there is something to look at even if you don't understand the language.One thing to notice: I've managed to achieve ~63000 wfs/son DS1104Z-S! Not claimed 30000. Is it possible on DS1054Z?And is it posible to hack BW with keys?

author: AnnabellaRenee87
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 01:58:34 pm
content: I can't wait for the review. I'm wanting to buy my first scope and this looks like a winner for me. Question, any reason to want the 100MHz one over the 50MHz one?Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

author: KD0CAC John
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 02:18:12 pm
content: Dave , do not ever , do anything like anybody else , just be DaveThe world would really suck if everyone was the sameJohn

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 02:28:07 pm
content: Quote from: mauroh on October 16, 2014, 08:26:54 amThe model number of the scope actually changes via firmware. That is how you change a 70mhz 1074 into the 100mhz model. You just change the model number in the firmware.

author: mauroh
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 02:38:34 pm
content: Quote from: nixfu on October 16, 2014, 02:28:07 pmTotally agree for the BW or for the SW options, but i was curious to verify that also for models with different hardware like with or without the SigGen. the resistors where the same like it is.Mauro

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 03:25:34 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmWho's "we"...?If you pull your head out and take a look around you might find you're actually in theminority.

author: bitwelder
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 05:07:59 pm
content: One test-point near to the Freescale processor (towards the Spartan FPGA) is marked BATTERYV.Which battery is that about? At least I did not spot any obvious 'button cell' on the board.

author: kevinpt
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 05:45:14 pm
content: Still no probe ID rings. Why again must we be burdened by manually setting probe attenuation factor when a simple automatic solution exists? I don't see why one of the Chinese Mfrs don't just implement them across their entire product range to show up their competitors. It's not like it's particularly difficult (or expensive) to implement or patent encumbered.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 07:19:01 pm
content: Quote from: bitwelder on October 16, 2014, 05:07:59 pmSince that processor is also optimised for mobile applications, it's probably the 4.2V or so input for the on-board core DC-DC converter.ISTR that Freescale said something like you should operate it from 4.2V instead of the max rated 5V so we ended up having a SOT223 LD1117 drop the 5V supply to 4.2V for the i.MX's buck converter, since the application was mains powered.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 07:23:28 pm
content: Another great eevblog review. Great to see the PCB up close and compare it to the 1052e, both have detailed photos on Flickr.Pending a review, Fagear has done a good job going through all the menu options, its clear and easily demos many functions so you don't really need to speak Russian to get something out of it. Spasibo.Quote from: Fagear on October 16, 2014, 10:56:24 am

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 08:24:47 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 15, 2014, 01:29:33 pmMaybe from some outlets but from Rigol UK they are somewhat suprisinglyidenticalin price at GBP286.80 (including VAT)The new one looks good but i'm happy with my Hong Kong bought, self hacked to 100MHz 1052E for now

author: BFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 09:31:10 pm
content: Thanks, cool teardownBut I like my Owon 8202V

author: Maxlor
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 10:05:29 pm
content: I don't think hackability is such a big thing, certainly not in business. I bought a DS1104Z-S last year with several options. Wouldn't dream of buying a lower model and hacking it; it's just bad karma to do those things when you're using the stuff commercially. Besides, the money is peanuts compared to e.g. the 6-digit sums we're spending on COMSOL licenses. Ridiculously expensive those.I also don't think the hobbyist market is that big. If I had to guess, I'd say the biggest piece of the pie by far for rigol is their domestic market, followed by rest of the world commercial, followed by hobbyists. I don't have any hard data though, it's just a guess.Btw, am I the only one who feels that their decoding upgrades are really not worth the money, since them being limited to screen area makes them only mildly useful?The DS1054Z is a fantastic overall deal though. I'm not missing the -S functionality either, since it's so cheap that a separate signal gen is affordable for a hobbyist too. And that one will have an UI that probably isn't as cumbersome to use

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 10:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: KD0CAC John on October 16, 2014, 02:18:12 pmDid I missing something?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 10:52:51 pm
content: Quote from: Maxlor on October 16, 2014, 10:05:29 pmAll the scopes with signal gens now are all pretty mediocre. They are OK for basic use, but like you said, really useful signal gens are pretty cheap these days.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2014, 11:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 16, 2014, 01:34:12 amIn the USA, from tequipment.net (a reasonably competitive seller), the 1052E is $329, while the 1054Z is $399. In other words, the 1052E is about 82% the price of a 1054Z.I think the marketplace will eventually sort that out. I can't imagine many people choosing the 1052E these days at those relative price levels. I suspect it won't be too long before the 1052E is discontinued and the remaining stock is sold at clearance prices, whatever they can get. It's had a good run.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 03:50:19 am
content: Quote from: m100 on October 16, 2014, 08:24:47 pmIs that a typo on their web site? It seems to price the 1054Z well below the price in China or the US.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 05:05:57 am
content: Quote from: coppice on October 17, 2014, 03:50:19 amThe price on their website is GBP 286.80. That's about $460 in US Dollars at today's exchange rates. The price from US retailers is around $400. There are differing tax rates in those prices, and sales tax might be added to the US price, but all in all, it seems to be slightly cheaper to buy one in the US than in the UK. The prices aren't wildly different, though.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 05:53:56 am
content: Quote from: AG6QR on October 17, 2014, 05:05:57 amThat's 286.8 pounds including 20% VAT. Its 239 without VAT. That's $383 using your exchange rate. I got the exchange rate wrong, so its not as cheap as I thought. However, electronics in the UK is usually wayyyyy above the US price, so this is a very good deal for that market.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 09:36:22 am
content: Did you feel that? My DS1074Z just lost a bit of value.I might just go and buy a DS1054Z and sell my old 1074Z...

author: Nuno_pt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 10:02:11 am
content: Hi all,The price on the 54Z in Batronix it's 355.81€ with VAT and free shipping to EU, at today ratings it's £283.32 and $455.91.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 10:21:26 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 17, 2014, 09:36:22 amIf you can make a profit doing so, why not!

author: android
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 12:43:04 pm
content: If you take a close look at the PCB you'll see that the four channel inputs are not 100% exactly the same. An easy way to check is to look at the board square on and cross your eyes until two of the channels line up. Your eyes will lock on and the differences will stick out like dog's balls! ...you get a rather cool 3D effect too

author: dougg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2014, 04:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: sweesiong78 on October 15, 2014, 05:47:53 pmYou haven't convinced your northern neighbo_u_rs yet. Besides zed works just fine in Quebec. Speaking of which, y'all might think of switching to zeta in sympathy with your 50 million HispanicsIn the forthcoming review of the "Z", I would be interested if the optional SPI decode works and can handle the clock, MISO and MOSI sensibly since it is a 4 channel scope. The speed of the SPI may be an issue.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 06:06:44 am
content: Quote from: dougg on October 17, 2014, 04:28:22 pmHaven't tried SPI but RS232 and I2C certainly work.Edit: Still haven't physically tried it but SPI mode has three input channel selection options - CLK/MISO/MOSI. You could use the 4th channel for CS (and trigger on it...)PS: ...and you can do 2 I2C buses simultaneously.Quote from: dougg on October 17, 2014, 04:28:22 pmIt wouldn't be the fault of the 'scope if you're trying to decode 100MHz SPI.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 08:53:45 am
content: I've successfully been able to decode ~19MHz SPI busses with quite poor signal integrity (I only had 1 GND probe hooked up, on the CS line).. Like for example,a 19MHz SPI bus with 20MHz bandwidth limit turned on all channels to 'clean up' the display.So in that case unless you're doing something really crazy at 20MHz the scope will pick it up. Do realize that the decoding is software processing, so although the scope may update 1000 times second at that rate, the decoding bar will not. I think the decoder can be quite a slow at times when you freeze the screen, because with such a "complex" signal it can take half a second before the decoded data appears (still using version 2 SP5 firmware - it may be much improved in version 4).

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 09:37:20 am
content: Quote from: dougg on October 17, 2014, 04:28:22 pmI actually prefer American spelling (and have adopted it even though I don't say 'zee'). The USA's 19th century spelling reformers were onto something."Colour" looks too French to me these days.

author: hikariuk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 01:22:26 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 15, 2014, 07:51:43 pmA lot of individuals won't either.

author: Robyn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 01:30:32 pm
content: @Dave at 33:33 you talk about the memory. It has 512Mbit. That is enough. It has maximum 24MS that means 24M * 16Bits that is 48MByte. If you use more than one channel you have only 12MS (2 channel), 6MS (3 channel), 6MS (4 channel). Each sample has 16 bits because it need 10 bits in some modes the 1054Z use 12bit ADC.Edit: it is 12 bit >= 5µs/div, and only 6MS with 3 channelat 33:36 you think that the left key row has spezial functions. I see 7 lines going there (Perhaps a 3x4 matrix). The 4 pin connector right to it has nothing to do with them for me, because i think i see 4 seperate lines going to the connector.Quote from: Nuno_pt on October 17, 2014, 10:02:11 amIf you want to order there, Perhaps I can help you to get a better price. Or if more than you want one, i will ask for a discount code (all products) for the eevblog.I can't wait until I will have mine.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2014, 01:53:36 pm
content: Quote from: android on October 17, 2014, 12:43:04 pmI can never get that trick to work. But I suffer from amblyopia, so that could be the reason. In fact it's the only reason I haven't invested in Jeri Ellsworth's fantastic CastAR system3D kinda works for me, but can become really uncomfortable on my stupid eye.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 08:57:37 am
content: Quote from: Robyn on October 18, 2014, 01:30:32 pmNo, the ADC is only 8 bit. If you're talking about High Res mode, that's just the DSO averaging sequential sample points within the same acquisition to produce added bits of vertical resolution.The number of added bits is dependent on the time base setting, and the slower the setting, the greater the number of samples that are averaged together for each display point, trading off BW for resolution - since it effectively acts like a low-pass filter which limits the real-time bandwidth. An extra bit of vertical resolution is produced for every factor of 4 averages, so 4, 16, 64, or 256 successive samples are averaged for, respectively, 9, 10, 11, or 12 bits of resolution.If the DS1000Z is like the DS2000, High Res can be turned on and off for a captured waveform (i.e. when the DSO is stopped). That means that the original samples must not be overwritten or changed since there would be no way to reverse the process and recover them after averaging. So if the DSO *is* doing the averaging in sample memory, it's using different memory locations to store the 9-12 bit sums.Since the DSO has a maximum of 24M of sample memory - that would mean it would need, at a maximum, an additional 24/4 of memory for storing the sums - or 30M of total sample memory - or the next larger stock DRAM size, which, coincidentally, would be 32M * 16.

author: Topop
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 08:42:47 pm
content: Dave,Great job once again, loved it.Doing side by each review of products would be a pain, lengthy, and time consuming. A much simpler question is why I should spend significantly more on an entry level Tek product (if there is such a thing). What is the difference in the feature mix and build quality? Don’t get me wrong, Tek makes great stuff and I own a quarter ton of it, literally, and love it all. But when this hobbyist had to put down hard earned dollars for my first DSO I had to go with the DS2072A.Oh yea, I almost forgot. Dave, please show some respect! Please turn the Tek scope on the shelf right side up!

author: ThisNameIsBlank
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2014, 09:36:28 pm
content: Quote from: Robyn on October 18, 2014, 01:30:32 pmI'm certainly interested - I joined this forum recently with the intention of finding a good, cheap first scope. I've been watching reviews and reading ever since.

author: bitblt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 07:56:48 am
content: I'm definitely interested in the Rigol DS1054Z. I'll probably wait for Dave's full review. I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on the DS1074Z. The price for an intensity graded display is pretty compelling. Although I'm still considering the Hantek MSO5054F for only a buck more.I agree, it should be Zee. Zed is dead. And it's aluminum, not aluminium.Great teardown by the way.

author: SNGLinks
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 08:41:02 am
content: Quote from: bitblt on October 20, 2014, 07:56:48 amNo way! Stops confusion between C and Z.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 09:32:20 am
content: Quote from: SNGLinks on October 20, 2014, 08:41:02 amOoops! Somebody missed the movie reference.

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 02:13:12 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 20, 2014, 09:32:20 amon the little kangaroo?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 09:09:38 am
content: Quote from: Smokey on October 21, 2014, 02:13:12 amSkippy! Skippy! Skippy the bush kangaroo...(Hands up who just had a flashback image of a helicopter?)

author: Robyn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 04:48:19 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 19, 2014, 08:57:37 amNo, I am not talking about the High Res Mode, I was talking about the specification (batronix.com page) that I read. It saysQuoteI know, when I read a ADC of a µC, I can read it in 8 Bit fast Mode because I read only the upper Bits and sampling is faster, or I can read 12 Bit Mode, it is slower but I have 12Bit resolution. I expect the same in the DS1054Z, because of the spezification.QuoteI know how to calculate, but they don't take 32M because it was the next larger size of Samplesize, they need some more memory for calculaculating, tabels , pointers etc, that is about 8 M*16 , because they need hat, they calculated 16Mx16, but it ist to small, because thats only room 8M Sample. so they had to take 32Mx16 and so they got a value of 24 M possible Samples.I was talking about it, because dave had problems with the 512Mbit RAM size in the video, he thought it was to small and was looking for more. I think he calculated 24MS * 4 Channels that make 96MBytes but he found only 512Mbit. No big problem, i like the video, it gave me a lot of information and i wanted to give some back. Thank you to dave for it.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: Robyn on October 21, 2014, 04:48:19 pmThat specification is a mistake - or at least, a conflation of specs. It's mixing the REAL sample resolution with the EFFECTIVE resolution of High Res mode. It lists the same thing for the DS2000A, which, I can assure you, uses an 8-bit ADC.QuoteWell I hate to tell you this, but your expectations are incorrect. You just have toread the specs of the ADC used inside of the DS1000Z series. It's an 8-bit only ADC. The 12-bits they refer to in the Batronix specs are in High Res mode.Not only that, but I suspect the timebases of that spec are incorrect since they match the ones listed for the DS2000A precisely (which has double the max. sample speed). As shown inthe chart at the bottom of this post, these are the bit resolutions for the DS2000(A) at various timebases when using High Res, and I suspect the DS1000Z's might be one time base slower (although I'll test it with the one that is arriving in a couple of days).QuoteI understand. I only mentioned it because you were wrong about the ADC needing to store 12-bit samples - except when calculating High Res mode (which might be done in display memory).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:17:18 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 21, 2014, 05:12:48 pmAnd how was it determined this is the ADC in use?https://www.hittite.com/content/documents/data_sheet/hmcad1520.pdfPin compatible, 8/12/14-bit.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2014, 05:17:18 pmIf they had used the 12 or 14 bit version the oscilloscope would sample at 12 or 14 bits all the time. In fact it only achieves 12 bits by repeated sampling and dithering. The Batronix page isn't clear about this, but the Rigol data sheet is - both the English and Chinese versions, which are more similar than most translations.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:27:04 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 21, 2014, 05:26:08 pmNot at 1GS/s it wouldn't. Take the time to at least read the first page of the datasheet?

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:33:55 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2014, 05:27:04 pmIt's 12-bits for a single channel.Do you think Rigol is paying what I would expect would be a fairly hefty premium to install a 12-bit capable ADC in their bottom-of-the-line DSO - while still offering an effective 12-bit High Res mode for all 4-channels via the FW?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:35:51 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2014, 05:27:04 pmYou have a point. It can take 640Ms/s at 12 bits, which isn't too shabby. Maybe the high-resolution mode really is real time.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:37:14 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 21, 2014, 05:33:55 pmWhere did you get the idea its only single channel at 12 bits? The data sheet shows 1,2 and 4 channel operation at 12 and 14 bits, although the 14 bit speed is pretty slow.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:39:56 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 21, 2014, 05:37:14 pmAlready edited before you posted.Quote from: coppice on October 21, 2014, 05:35:51 pmI would love if that was true - but to say I'm dubious would be an understatementI will test it in a couple of days, but I'm fairly certain it's done in software - like the rest of the much more costly UltraVision DSOs. One giveaway is the exact replication of Vertical specifications on Batronix between the DS1000Z and DS2000A. Also, I'm fairly sure it would be a nice advertising point for Rigol if it were a real 12-bit ADC at slower speeds (no mention in the datasheet).

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: marmad on October 21, 2014, 05:33:55 pmNo, it's quad channel. Even in 14-bit mode.QuoteI have no idea what they're paying and at present no concrete evidence to tell whether it's a HMCAD1511 or 1520.I actually agree it's more likely to be the 1511 and oversampling, but until I know for sure, I will question assumptions and consider possibilities..

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:44:31 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 15, 2014, 01:29:33 pmWhere can you buy the DS1052E at that price? Which distributor? Link to their website?

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 05:53:41 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 21, 2014, 05:44:31 pmResellers in China have the DS1052E for a little more than half the price of the DS1054Z. Rigol's front page now has the DS1054Z at CNY2580 and the DS1102U at CNY1580, so it looks like the list price of the simpler scopes is being adjusted in relation to the DS1054Z's low price.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2014, 05:40:44 pmYes, that was struckthrough moments after writing it.QuoteAs mentioned, if it's a true 12-bit ADC, they are WAY underselling it in the advertising and datasheet specsBut will check soon...

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:20:51 pm
content: BTW, if anyone with a DS1000Z wants to check it it's got a real 12-bit ADCthat it uses in High Res mode:Set the DSO to 1 channel ON, 50us/div, highest memory depth (12M/AUTO), and send it a 10MHz sine wave. If, when you turn on High Res, the waveform vanishes to an almost flat line (< 1mVpp), it ain't.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:29:33 pm
content: Since the 1520 cost half more than the 1511 I will think it's the 1511.$60-80 compared to $116 even at high quantities the difference could be $20 (say $30 vs $50) on a $300 scope with many other components I will doubt they will use the 1520, but then again, who knows, a long term contract could bring the price pretty low I guess.

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:33:16 pm
content: the best would be probably to check how the ADC is being configured, as far i understood HMCAD1520 need to be set to HMCAD1511 mode (register lvds_output_mode) and/or high speed and precision mode.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 06:34:33 pm
content: Dave, I just want to know if you've compared the intensity grading on the 1000Z vs the DS2000 and which version you like better (and why)?

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2014, 07:00:34 pm
content: Dave said on the video that the scope has segmented memory. He didn't say anything else about it. Anyone have any experience of this on this range of scopes ? Anything to do withWaveform Record ?

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 12:44:32 am
content: Quote from: marmad on October 21, 2014, 06:20:51 pmI've tried this (on a modded 1054z) and while it certainly degrades it's far from flat. However at 20ms/div is does go flat and then at 50ms/div it's back to something reasonable. I guess that the oversampling cancels itself out at 20ms/div.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 01:08:57 am
content: Quote from: kwass on October 22, 2014, 12:44:32 amI used flat in a relative way - that's why I added < 1mVpp - you have to increase the vertical scale to find out exactly how low the amplitude is. On my DS2000, the amplitude of a 3Vpp 10MHz sine wave goes to ~ 1mVpp @ 50ms/div. That's from the low pass comb filter of successive sampling averaging, but the amplitude will be different on the DS1000Z because of the lower max.sample rate (and depending on how many samples it's averaging).I don't know if the DS1000Z is doing 256 sample averaging, but if/when it is, I believe there is a null valley at 7.81MHz which will give almost perfect 0V amplitude (+/- a pixel at the lowest vertical scale).EDIT: I forgot momentarily that the DS1000Z max. sample rate is half that of the DS2000, so the nulls, of course, begin at half that of the DS2000. The nulls for 1GSa/s @ 256 samples averaged are ~3.9MHz and it's harmonics. Anytime the DS1000Z might be averaging to 12 bits (regardless if the rate is lower than 1GSa/s), you should have a null (0V amplitude +/- a pixel at the lowest vertical scale) at that frequency.You can calculate the -3dB BW in High Res (if you know the number of samples averaged) by 0.433*(sample rate/samples averaged). You can reverse-calculate the number of samples averaged by finding the -3dB BW first.

author: klaus11
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 10:23:42 am
content: Hi all, newbie here not mistreated too. I'm thinking about buying the Rigol DS1054Z and am awaiting Batronix stocks.I wonder; Will come in this new batch of Rigol DS1054Z manufactured with the same quality and "ease" of hackering?

author: Sjokolade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:27:52 am
content: Price here in Norway is 508 US$ + tax, thats 635 US$.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:32:21 am
content: Quote from: klaus11 on October 22, 2014, 10:23:42 amIt's so new that no firmware updates haven't been released yet, so any firmware hacks should still work. Rigol have a history of closing hack loopholes in the previous scope firmware though.Hardware hacks have yet to be verified.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 12:05:36 pm
content: Is this just a 50mhz version of the cheap 4 channel Z scope?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 01:14:58 pm
content: Quote from: nowlan on October 22, 2014, 12:05:36 pmYep, exact same scope, just 50MHz.

author: SharpEars
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 04:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: Fagear on October 16, 2014, 10:56:24 amI just watched the first half of your DS1000Z vs DS2000A review and it is thebest damn oscilloscope comparison review I have ever seen in my life! Wow, you've got a review of the 2072a as well (2072a review). Too bad they're all in Russian. My Russian language understanding is horrible (especially understanding all the non-English sounding technical jargon), but I was able to follow along and your review was truly comprehensive. I especially liked your use of the word "musar" throughout the review in the protocol decoding portions. I don't know why, but it sounded hilarious to me, not sure if that was intentional or not.If I had the time, I'd do a rough overdub of it in English for Oz, Brits and us Yanks, but that would take at least a solid day out of my life... Maybe if I am off from work one day...

author: BUkitoo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 01:21:26 am
content: In Argentina, the main distributor (hopefully there are 2) won´t import this Rigol Model! They will import the 70MHz version! With all the ridiculous taxes we have, the unit will cost more than 850 u$s !

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 02:54:45 am
content: FYI those in Oz who have been asking.Emona will have stock on the 11th Nov.I suspect they might sell out.

author: klaus11
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:01:26 am
content: The firmware does the DS1104Z is here Top-oscilloscopes.com search DS1104Z - Dowload. I can not put URL requests password to access.

author: Robyn
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 08:45:34 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 22, 2014, 01:14:58 pmPerhaps they produce on one line, they measure it at the end, the better ones get 1104Z and the other 1074Z or 1054Z. I don't know if that is true, just an idea.... I still have to wait 3 weeks until mine arrives.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 09:36:03 am
content: Well, it would appear that there is a bit of a frenzy currently occurring in regards to this new gadget and from what I saw Dave gave it his approval.And I must admit that another DSO on my bench was hardly a priority until I saw Dave gut it and others having their way with other similar models on the tube thingo.Here in AUS they are currently listed at $439.00 + 10% GST, so around $483.00 and I only found one supplier here on google called Eyou (never dealt with them) and then I recalled Dave mention Emona (have dealt with them), so when I have finished reading all of the associated downloaded literature in relation to the product I will share the love and Emona will get my money.MuttleyPS; to those who have one;1. Can the soft button icons be removed for de-clutter.2. Can it read Rs 485 with a 232-485 converter.3. What happens when you plug a mouse into the USB.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 09:46:13 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on October 23, 2014, 09:36:03 amI don't think so, but they're hardly "clutter". You use them all the time.Quote from: Muttley Snickers on October 23, 2014, 09:36:03 amRS485 is a hardware specification so, "no".It can read RS232 though.Quote from: Muttley Snickers on October 23, 2014, 09:36:03 amNo idea, but I'm betting you don't get a mouse cursor on screen.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 10:00:07 am
content: Wow,3 strikes,I think under the rules with you as refereethat puts me out.Muttley

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 10:49:22 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on October 23, 2014, 10:00:07 amWhat did you want? A medal?

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 11:57:38 am
content: For those still wondering whether the DS1000Z has a 12-bit ADC which it uses in High Res mode, the answer is most definitely no (big surprise).I posteda comparison of High Res mode on the DS1000Z vs DS2000 here; there is quite a major difference between them.

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 01:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 23, 2014, 09:46:13 amYou're correct, nothing happens. I've tried various other devices as well, including a small USB 2.0 hard drive (NTFS format), but the only thing that will work are thumb drives on the front USB port.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 02:11:24 pm
content: Quote from: kwass on October 23, 2014, 01:23:46 pmDarn.What we need is somebody who's good at firmware hacking to unlock that feature. It would be awesome to use this 'scope with a mouse.

author: bitblt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 05:51:12 pm
content: Just today someone posted on ebay some Rigol DS1054Z for $399 Buy-it-Now, with free shipping in the US only. There is limited quantity so anyone interested might want to act quickly.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:19:51 pm
content: Quote from: Lukas on October 15, 2014, 06:08:52 pmIt is more expensive than a discrete design at 100 MHz but that may not be true at 200 MHz like in the DS2000A series. The emitter networks shown in the schematic Dave reverse engineered imply that they had to push pretty hard to get a workable discrete 100 MHz design.QuoteI would like to see this as well. I would be one of the first things I would test.Quote from: Rutger on October 15, 2014, 07:49:25 pmThere might be calibration or grading differences. If transient response calibration was done in software, then the lower bandwidth models may perform differently than higher bandwidth ones when hacked.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:33:32 pm
content: Quote from: bitblt on October 23, 2014, 05:51:12 pmIt's listed by tequipment. There's no reason to buy it from them on eBay when you can get the EEVblog discount by buying directly.

author: bitblt
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 07:04:18 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on October 23, 2014, 06:33:32 pmYou are correct they are listed by tequipment. Some people might prefer to use PayPal Credit for 6 months no interest.How does one go about getting an EEVBlog discount, and how much is the discount?Thank you.Never mind I found the tequipment thread.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2014, 10:00:50 pm
content: Nice to see what is inside thing one wants to buyJust thinking why they made such waved tracks on PCB like there?It looks like such track will be much longer, but its snake shapeit does there?

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2014, 10:18:34 pm
content: Probably they want all the tracks to have the same length.

author: hammy
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2014, 10:21:39 pm
content: Have a look for: "Meanders in traces"

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 12:04:03 am
content: Quote from: eneuro on October 24, 2014, 10:00:50 pmThat is to match the length of delay between signal traces. That IC is a Hynix H5PS5162GFR DDR3 SDRAM which is 512 Mbits arranged as 64M x 8 so 64 Mbytes. I am fuzzy about the exact requirements for DDR3 but it looks like they want significantly less than 100 picoseconds worth of skew on the interface which is significantly less than an inch of trace length difference.

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 12:36:42 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on October 25, 2014, 12:04:03 am32M X 16. Rigol is using 16-bit DRAM in all their UltraVision DSOs.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 01:41:27 am
content: Quote from: marmad on October 25, 2014, 12:36:42 amHow annoying. Hynix puts both parts in the same datasheet and abbreviates the part numbers but you have to find the organization on the page with the packages instead of the features or description. When I was reading it I was thinking, "This datasheet is terrible."

author: marmad
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 03:19:20 pm
content: Quote from: Robyn on October 21, 2014, 04:48:19 pmBTW, just to keep buyers correctly informed: this spec from the Batronix site is completely wrong. Not only is it not listed on Rigol's websites, it's not supported by the documentation specs:MSO/DS2000A manual:"High Resolution: 12 bits of resolution when >=5 us/div @ 1 GSa/s (or >=10 us/div @ 500 MSa/s).MSO/DS1000Z manual:"High Resolution: 12 bit (max)"In other words, unspecified. After numerous tests, I've yet to identify exactly when the DS1000Z might be averaging to 12 bits, although I suspect, if it actually does it, it's only at much slower timebases (e.g. >= 1ms).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 07:07:00 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on October 24, 2014, 10:00:50 pmStandard on DDR layouts.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2014, 10:10:51 pm
content: Quote from: pascal_sweden on October 21, 2014, 05:44:31 pmWhen is Rigol going to drop the price on the DS1052E? Might come in handy as a spare backup unit.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 02:11:07 am
content: Christmas ?

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 06:28:44 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on October 25, 2014, 12:04:03 amI do not play with high frequency circuits designs, so it was very interesting and it isPDF: Meander delay compensation in high-speed digital multilayer designsThe key to gogle it was proper naming it"meander", not"snake"Really nice teardown and next reverse engineering video of multilayered PCB of this quite nice scope awersome