Thermal Camera for Filmmaking and Photography - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 08:54:46 pm
content: Hello forum members,I finally decided to make this post. I am in theneedof a proper camera, my current camera has hit it's limits years ago. To get the most of of my camera I have tried software and hardware modifications, I got a fair way better in what I can achieve by now. But I have to realize that is is a phone gimmick after all (it does serve some purposes that is was intended for), but it provide the features and image quality I need.You have probably seen me on this (sub-)forum, I would say that I am fairly active - I go here and check for new posts about 5-10 times a day and read most of the threads. A lot of effort and time went into finding and writing thisartistic thread, I am set to advance it should I come across more projects. You can always add your own findings or sending them my way and I will make my best to write an entry(someone tell me how to fix the formatting for embedded videos). The video part has impressed me the most for a quick example of what I mean I suggest you look through the top few music videos ofthis playlistI made.The natural connection is that the next camera I get will be focused on Filmmaking (and photography, but that comes naturally).Now most of the good quality videos(the quality gets worse the further down you get in the playlist - my judgement) were shot on the highest end science MW cameras, but this is far out of my reach and not what I am interested in. I am interested in the Longwave Infrared spectrum, Midwave just comes with too many hassles - it also looks somewhat different and I come to like the LWIR look a lot.I am currently finishing up school and plan to start university with a EE+CS course next year, it would be great to gain some experience in engineering and DSP. Given that no camera on the market is build for my purpose(maybe ThermApp if you look how they advertise) so it very likely will be a larger DIY project.Here is a list withfeatures and specs that a mandatoryfor what I want to do (deal breaker not having these):VGA resolution 640x480 pixel or betterLWIR, uncooledvideo at at least 24hzraw capture of the full digital signalinterchangeable lenses (am alright with adapting all kinds of lenses, but a proper mount with multiple options is nice to have)focus controllow latency on camera Displayportablehandheldindependent system (power, media)The following features arenice to have but not a must have, most of them can likely be added later with software or hardware. Also a checklist for me(to be expanded)more framerates, from low framrates(for timelapse) to 60hz or 120 (windowed also an option)physical controls for gain(min, max, mid, etc;)dynamic LUTs, paletteswireless connectivity (controlling the camera and receiving video)motorized follow focus (AF)industry standard power solutionin camera supperresolutionin camera guide for panoramassynthetic shutter/exposure (stacking)silent operationmedia via SDcardsSDI/HDMI out with and without Palettearticulating screendigital zoom/focus viewstealthy designradiometricshutter/NUCruggedanalog outputtrigger sync input/output for capturing multiple cameras at oncetimecode supportI originally planned to spent up to 1500€ on this project, but I realize that that would give me QVGA at best. As a soft budget limit I would set double that for the whole system, with like 2000€-2500€ dedicated to the actual core/camera part to give headroom on additional electronics and tools I will need.So there are a few options I am currently considering:Buying a fully fledged inspection camera like a T640 or better (maybe even the Pxxx series with the camcorder design). While this would be the easy option as they require no modification - it is also out of my budget and not exactly what I am looking for.Buying a core like a Boson 640, Vue 640, Tau 2 640, Tamarisk 640 and building the camera around it with a available platform (Raspberry Pi, Arduino). > I have been notified of good priced Boson 640s on groupgets that would fall into this category.Finding a used camera system like a sUAS or surveillance camera, salvaging the core and cannibalizing electronics if they fit. Adding more electronics as above.Dongle cameras like the ThermApp Pro, ThermalExpert V1 or Xtherm T6S might apply to the list above, but with the recent threads I am not sure they perform up to spec as they are fairly host dependent. If there is a proven solution to interface them into a Pi or similar, I might look into them. I haven't looked into scopes and monoculars at all, if anyone has knowledge about them and can estimate if my endeavors could be fulfilled, let me know.I am located in Germany which needs to be considered for importing such a camera. There is likely paperwork for a export license that the seller will need to fill out, possible with information from my end as well.I currently own two lenses for LWIR, one of them is a 18mm f/0.7 that has the image circle to support a VGA sized sensor (17µm or 12µm pitch). I would gladly adapt this one and start to collect more lenses as soon as the camera works. Most cores do offer a lens calibration utility. I don't have the black body sources for them, but I will find a way (or pay for the service). It is just lens bias correction and not temperature calibration that I need.What do I plan to do with it?So I feel this is a question that needs to be answered, for your understanding and also for me. As for photography I will continue my usual styles: street and party. I would love to get into abstract and people photography with this. I don't think still live or architecture is the most interesting subject, but I will try it for sure. For video it will be rather gimicky, I hope to be able to do something like a Predator fan short or some horror. As it looks fairly experimental, it is niche - but I will push out of there. Music videos(as shown above) and documentary is also something I would like to try. I do not intend to it as a tool for inspection, but should I have the capabilities I wouldn't shy away from using it. I got no commercial obligations, but should there be, I will take them. Seeing in the dark and observing people is probably one of the main things I look forward to do (but that just falls into the process of shooting street).So I ask you, do you know any further options I should look into? Do you know a specific solution that you could maybe share with me? What other features would be great that I haven't listed yet? Is there something I am completely missing somehow? Any other comments?I will update this thread with any developments, I have missed a few good deals - but I am positive there are more to come.

author: Spirit532
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2019, 10:33:54 pm
content: Quote from: Vipitis on April 24, 2019, 08:54:46 pmForget that. Neither is anywhere near fast enough to save VGA+ 12b+ raw data at video rates.This willrequirean FPGA or something much more powerful.

author: oddbondboris
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 05:01:17 pm
content: groupgets boson 640 is gonna be your core if you can swing ithttps://groupgets.com/campaigns/530-flir-bosonas far as interface you're into fpga territory but not $2000 fpga territory. i'd focus on getting the output into mipi-csi and work from there on a high end sbc or if you're feeling ambitious a smartphone development platform.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2019, 05:28:24 pm
content: If your Uni program does not already includes Co-op, aim for summer internship. That will give you some cash that you can put towards purchasing bits for you projects, instead of sitting all summer in front of the monitor drooling over other's thermal images.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2019, 09:42:11 pm
content: I looked deeper into the Boson 640. The smaller pixels and sensor allow for more fun with lenses, the tiny form factor is also crazy.It sounds really interesting and is really state of the art. I read parts of the documentation and it sounds like a lot of options I am looking for are already available with the core directly. On GroupGets it is the cheapest, the current campaign makes it even cheaper. It would be just below 2300€ shipping for the 50° lens option. But it looks like they only have one payment method, and there might be heavy import taxes (19%) which would increase the price by a lot. But the campaign will also need to be fulfilled.OEMcameras also offers a cheaper interface board then the stock FLIR model, so I might look into getting both from them.I will keep on looking and let's this rest for a the coming three weeks as my most important exams so far are coming up.

author: mahony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 11:42:00 am
content: I have to agree w/ Spirit - an Arduino or Raspberry Pi will not make it.I would suggest looking into either a cheap tablet based on one of the Intel Atom chips or something with similar horsepower. I personally use either a Core i5 powered Surface 4 or a Dell Venue 8 with Atom Z3580(?) that I shot on amazon a couple of years ago for 79€. Both can handle the TE-V1 30Hz VGA frame rate in raw mode with or without the i3 SDK - but I usually go for the WinUSB/Zadig approach.For the future I am planning on moving to Linux platform with the new Jetson Nano (99$ / ~100€) plus some small touch screen and LiPo battery pack. Other options might be some of the more beafy Odroid or LattePanda Boards -either using Linux or Windows OS.Most of your needs are checked by the TE-V1 except for faster frame rate by windowing. I got a 3D printed adapter that works good with all M34x0.5 threaded lenses I came across so far. The Boson cores are really nice BUT: be aware as your are not supposed to remove the lens. They feature the same design as the smaller Leptons with exposed bond wires - any dust on them might severly damage the core! That is what drew me away from the Boson and actually buying the V1 as there was a good deal available for it (I can state the price via PN if interested).Big plus from my point of view for both Boson, ThermApp and TE-V1 is the USB interface that basically plugs into any PC-like device whereas most other options leave you behind with either CameraLink, LVDS or some other very low level interface or simple analog video...Other options with really high capabilities and adjustability are the DRS Tamarisk cores - they sparsly pop up on eBay in 640 resolution but be aware that you either have to build some hardware for the interfacing or get some ready made pieces from i.e. Leopard imaging.Or finally you got some choice of chinese build cores in either 320 or 640 fashion on Alibaba and so on but it is not that clear what interfacing options are available and how to get raw data from those. I chatted a bit with one of those guys. They are usually offering their stuff at IWA Outdoor Classics - I wanted to meet them there and get some hands on experience with those cores 2 years ago but timing/work was against me there...

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 27, 2019, 08:06:11 pm
content: hm yeah, I am not sure at all about the platform. But I will look into the nVIDIA boards - not that I am into "AI" ... yet but it might be nice to do down the road. The Boson has some video processing SoC and according to the engineering datasheet you can do simultaneous video outputs. So you could do analog to run the display(8bit) and digital via USB to write to storage(16bit). And control the AGC and palette for said analog out directly in the camera while sending the control commands via USB or one of the other channel. Wouldn't such a task be viable to a light weight platform?They also say that you are supposed to change the lens in a ISO6 cleanroom - I won't have that. The Boson offers to save two lens profiles internally, but it is meant for a fixed multi PoV lens.The V1 does look nice and I have seen what is possible to do with it. i3 also sells OEM cores with the same sensor, as well as a V2 sensor that is 12µm. Their pricing is unknown but the current sale price on the V1 30hz is 2999€ (tax included).Tamarisk 640 is an option there were two up for grabs and one turned out to be an eBay scam.Things just get more and more complicated the further I go into this. Buying a Boson locally will cost you more than 6000€. You can get the new Boson equipped Scion for less. And Tau2 Scouts are getting cheaper as well.Alibaba always looks sketchy to me, last time I order something bigger there they incorrectly declared the value and I evaded some of the import tax. I got quoted 3-4k$ for a ULIS sensor based core here in the forum once.

author: Hyper_Spectral
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 29, 2019, 02:18:23 pm
content: For any of the higher resolution cooled ULIS cores expect well over $10k. Over the phone I was quoted something like $40k for a one off of their higher resolution core with packaging.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 06:31:17 pm
content: I got something really exotic through eBay, it could more than double my expectations for less than half the price. Will keep you updated and share more information once it is in my hands.It will be a lot of work for sure.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 07:35:37 am
content: What I got is Thermotiknix MIRICLE 307K cores. Can help to source the documentation or software for the KC version?I will post the whole story and teardown later.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 09:01:30 am
content: You tease us so, sir!Seriously though, that sounds like a rather nice toy and I look forward to hearing about it when you are able to post more information.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 02:25:41 pm
content: Nice! Hope you are successful in getting it running. That will be one heck of an upgrade for you.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2019, 09:42:30 pm
content: Okay, here comes the story in short form:I found a maritim camera system(I am now uncertain about the specific model) on eBay and managed to buy it. The shipping (just 300km) was somewhat difficult but it go here in the end. After a long and frustrating discussion with the integrator I decided to ignore their wrong claims and just get inside. There are two thermal cameras in the system along some visible light cameras. The teardown took two days and required a lot of force at times as well as 3D puzzle solving.The thermal cameras are as said before Thermoteknix MIRICLE cores. One of them as been identified as 307K-25 KC with 150mm F/1.0 lens. The other one is likely the same core, with 32mm F/1.0 lens. Both lenses are motorized and non interchangeable to spec. I will find a way to correct that.I hope to confirm them working soon and move on to plan components for the rest of this project.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 03:35:27 am
content: Very nice. Fingers crossed!

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 03:16:35 pm
content: I can't think of anyone who deserves a 'find' like this more than you, Vipitis. Fraser usually gets in first!The lenses look to be in excellent condition, which suggests good things for the rest of the system. It certainly doesn't look as though it has been on a vessel for years exposed to salt water and mermaid pee.I suspect the 150mm f/1.0 lens is worth a fair bit on its own, even as scrap germanium (please, please don't break it up for scrap!!!) - overall, I'm sure you've got an amazing bargain. I hope you can get both cameras and lenses running well.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 03:29:06 pm
content: Ultrapurple...... you know I have retired from thermal camera collectingThe SC4000 was an exceptionThe field is wide open for bargain hunters. As you say Vipitis got himself an excellent purchase and I am very pleased for himSadly I have not had any contact with Thermoteknix during my career so cannot assist him with any useful information to get his cameras running. I do know that Thermoteknix analysis software is protected by a hardware Dongle as I have one. Hopefully the cameras are either direct command driven, like the BAE SCC500 or, if GUI driven, the software may be sourced. They are excellent professional cameras in the same market segment as DRS. Sadly that also makes them a little challenging when it comes to finding useful technical information for them. In my old job I might have been able to help but now that I have retired it is more difficult.Fraser

author: ArsenioDev
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 04:33:42 pm
content: Holy hell those are some BEAUTIFUL thermal lenses, can we have more pictures of the focus mechanism?

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2019, 04:44:08 pm
content: I am unsure about my approach now. Thermoteknix has only been mentioned twice on the forum before I posted about it. On the internet archive wayback machine you can find a 2013 snapshot for their websites OEM products and see the MIRICLE as Legacy already. On their current support page still lists the MIRICLE as in production which I think believe to be a mistake. It's been used for wildlife documentaries before, one idea is to find the people who built a camera around it back than and see if any interviews (pre internet times sadly) give clues.Contacting Thermotiknix as a private entity in good faith is an option but an unlikely one to help me. I got two cameras so I may use one of the serial numbers to request support and should that not work I still got another serial number left to try a different approach.Reverse engineering will be difficult for me as I have no experience to indentify the 2009 tech. The camera is configured to only 5 outgoing wires plus two that go to the focussing motor. I haven't found any indication on the board itself to where GND would be for example. The only specsheet found only says very little about power requirements and just supplying it and probing sounds dangerous. I sadly don't have any engineering experience to how a pinout would normally be design and guessing isn't smart here.I will update you once I figured out more. Right now I try to identify cameras and binoculars that use the core I have to maybe learn a little bit or find further documentation.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 12:26:14 pm
content: It's usually possible to make a good attempt at identifying the wires, particularly if it's an analogue output camera and there are only a few wires. Ground is often connected to the chassis metalwork, or at least a ground plane on the PCB.Video out may be coupled via an electrolytic capacitor, which will initially show low-ish resistance that rises over a second or so. If you quickly swap to measuring voltage, you should see a good or so, declining as the capacitor discharges.Power can also give a similar response but the resistance is likely to be less than infinity (which is what you expect on the video out) and any residual voltage is likely to fall very quickly.That leaves two wires that may well be data or push switch inputs or whatever. If you have confidently identified power and ground and know what voltage the camera is supposedto run from, it may be worth giving it some power (use a current-limited supply) and seeing if you get video on one of the other wires.But by far the best way to work out what does what is to examine carefully the original chassis wiring. Posting lots of good photos here will give others a chance to use their skills and help you work out the connections.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 06:29:17 pm
content: I am not risking taking apart the cores now, if it isn't possible to get the documentation I might need to do so. The original wiring is difficult to follow and it all ends in a 5 13pin military plug as well as one 55 pin. Both cores only feed out 9 lines into their respective connectors. I have taken photos of both cores and you can see that 1,3,5 as well as 26 and 28 are wired up. Both looks similar just different sticker numbers.There was a question about the motorized focus. So I took a picture that highlights the two endstops. They get triggered by a screwhead at the bottom of the lens. Don't know exactly how they are wired up yet but I might unsleeve the cable later. The DC motor is maxon 118648.To get an idea what these cores can do, exactlythe 32mm and 150mm lenses as well, you can lookup the "Nights of the Lion Nat Geo HD" documentary and find some reuploads on YouTube. Archived versions of the production house website tell some details abouttheir camera.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 10:47:38 pm
content: That L3 suggests a common mode choke, so may well have the input power going through it.Publicity image of the core attached, ULIS sensor TEC fitted but probably not used as there is no viable heatsink.At a guess a ULIS 04 17 1Bill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 10:56:49 pm
content: If you look at the PCB legends, I see “0VIN” next to the two pin connector with red and black wires going to it. Potential Voltage input ?J10 could also be a video output in addition to the larger connector output. These cores are deliberately versatile so often have multiple interfacing options. Hence all the unused connectors in this particular application.Modular cameras like these usually communicate with a host over RS232, RS485 or RS422. Modern cores also include Firewire (IEEE1394a) and/or USB. The exact communications specification is often selected at time of purchase or is selectable via the command set. Two wire connections are usually RS422 or RS485. Three wire is RS232 but often at TTL or 3.3V signal levels and potentially inverted Mark Space polarity just to add to the funLooking at the pictures, I suspect that I can see an unused Mini or Micro 5 pin USB connector footprint called “J2”. Sadly this is unlikely to be enabled in the firmware as it is not fitted but it might be worth checking all the same.Looking at the wires coming out of those cameras, I would expect the following usage.....Red and Black pair = Power supply. Likely 5V but there may be a voltage legend near the red side of the power socket.Red and Red pair on left of large connector = Video output. One should hopefully be connected to 0V.Three Red’s on right of large connector = RS232 serial control I/O. One will hopefully be connected to 0V but the other two will be Tx and Rex and this needs to be traced back to a chip to check what voltage is required for signalling. The Mark Space polarity can be tested by experimentation.Sadly without a command set it will be challenging to talk to this camera module. Reverse engineering the firmware can help but is involved. Command syntax can be important so even random common commands may not be an option. You have a pretty uncommon camera moduleAlso note that there is a useful “0V” test point connection on the top right of the PCB on your picturesContinuity between that and the power input 0V, Video output 0V and RS232 0V would be expected.Fraser

author: TooQik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2019, 11:54:51 pm
content: You've probably already gone down this path, but do you have any documentation or wiring schematics for the maritime camera itself? If so, you can probably work out the inputs/outputs from this wiring and trace them back to the camera.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 06:13:50 am
content: @TooQik yes, that's what I mean when I mentioned checking out the chassis.I agree with Fraser about the connections. I would check the chassis to see if there are any voltage regulators and then apply that many volts to the core whilst an analogue monitor is connected to what Fraser suggests are the video out pins.You may be lucky and find the cores are.set up for sensible defaults that will give you a decent image with no further work.If you do manage to get communication established via the serial port it might be worth trying things like ? or HELP - you never know, you might be rewarded with a list of commands, rather like DOS still did in.Windoes 7. Then it would be easy enough to write your own front-end control system using an Arduino or something and a small character based LCD. Of course you could make it as fancy as you like.

author: mahony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:19:21 pm
content: Hi Vipitis,nice catch - here are a couple of probably helpful pdfs / specssheets:The first one states the option to get 240 fps on a 640x120 subwindowhttp://www.thermoteknix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/miricle-thermal-imaging-modules.pdfHere input power is stated to be 3.3-5V and video output either analog RS170/NTSC or CCIR/PAL or USB2LVDS (USB connector J2?)http://www.robot-eyes.com/public/Doc/Miricle307.pdfControl may be RS-232 - there is a software MIRICLE Essentials RS-232-PC noted here: (google translate from japanesse)https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sunagaimpulse.com%2FSyozai%2Fthermalimager%2FThermoteknix2.htmlOn other docs there is also a MIRICLE control SDK mentioned -> ask Thermoteknix if they provide it to you!There is also a paper about 3D mapping of thermal data using one of the cameras:https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/10918092.pdfhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/256199515_3D_Thermal_Mapping_of_Building_Interiors_using_an_RGB-D_and_Thermal_CameraMaybe worth checking related pulications for some interfacing data:https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/10909977.pdfJust for archiving purposes:Miricle 110 datasheet:http://www.robot-eyes.com/public/Doc/Miricle110.pdfSeems like this one was available with USB2 interface:https://www.vimelec.com.ar/images/folletos/thermoteknix/fevir.pdfFor the curious - in 2007 you'd have to pay ~20k USD for the smaller sister camera Miricle 110:http://www.nast-group.caltech.edu/~murray/dgc05/upload/3/34/Q6299DL_Miricle_110_KS_and_Lens_.pdfGood luck getting it to working state!

author: mahony
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:21:42 pm
content: Probably this may help you:http://wiki.ros.org/thermalvisSeems to be some extension to robot operating system (ROS) for MIRICLE 110 and 307 thermal cameras…I could not find the full source but this Github repo seems to use at least parts of it:https://github.com/steevo87/thermalvisThe MIRICLE 307 is mentioned in some files:https://github.com/steevo87/thermalvis/blob/master/include/streamer/input_stream.hpp

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2019, 02:42:24 pm
content: hey mahony,Thanks for finding some more information. I saw a few of those before but never went into other languages. Some of the specs are inconsistent including NETD and framerates(however there might be a connection between those two). The prices there are impressive indeed. It does however look as the SDK and "Developer" are extra packages you have to buy. Thermoteknix might sell me those packages. The paper on the 3D modeling and thermal pixel projection is strangely enough one idea I had some time ago for low resolution phone imagers. You can even find the whole 270page thesis online:https://eprints.qut.edu.au/68030/1/Stephen_Vidas_Thesis.pdfand take note of the Linux drivers they developped as a side product but shared online:https://github.com/steevo87/thermalvisandhttp://wiki.ros.org/thermalvisit even sounds like the camera will work as UVC.Everything is coming together and I am positive to have some progress within the coming week.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 12:16:07 pm
content: just to let everybody know. I managed to get the first core working through with a very sketchy test setup. The current setup won't work for the big lens core - but I will find a proper way to test it.Even the 32mm FoV is narrower than expected, but I can work with it. I reserve judgement of image quality untill there is a digital signal to look at, but out of the box it looks far better than my current cameras and very very smooth.I am making some progress every day now but the real challenges are still in front of me. Thanks to everybody who has helped me to this point.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 12:42:40 pm
content: Great news35mm is quite a powerful lens on that modules FPA and considering the original intended application, it does not surprise me that it was employed.The 150mm lens is great for long range wildlife workFraser

author: TooQik
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 12:45:21 pm
content: It lives!!!!Nice work. Look forward to more good news and images.

author: Bill W
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 02:05:42 pm
content: I see hot things !Best of luck with the other camera, hope you get somewhere with ThermoteknixBill

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2019, 02:42:06 pm
content: I did some digging on the Thermoteknix GUI and SDK. As suspected they only ever offered it as a chargeable extra and neither is cheapYou May be able to obtain the command set for the camera from Thermoteknix but refer to my private message to you on my personal experiences with Thermal Camera manufacturers. Much will depend upon who you get to ‘speak’ with at the company as the sales teams can be quite unhelpful. You need contact with technical support where you may get to talk to a friendly tech.Sadly Thermoteknix are likely to be somewhat cautious dealing with you as you are not the registered owner of the cameras. Wassenaar applies and they do not know for certain who you are or your nationality. I recently got through to a really helpful girl at a company who did everything she could to help me with a camera including sending all the documentation she had available. When she tried to get the specific information I needed, her management shut her down and told her to stop helping meIt was a case of corporate confidentiality so no way around itFraser

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 08:10:50 pm
content: I wanted to post an update. Sadly there isn't much of a success story to be found here. First of all some bad news. Out of the two cores I have, one is a 307K-25 while the other is not, it is a 110K-35 based on a ULIS UL03041 sensor with 384x288 resolution and 35µm pixel pitch. I learned that after I took the lens off to unstuck the shutter. As I will only use one core this isn't too much of a let down and having different cameras for other purposes will come in handy one day.Both cameras output composite video to the UF.L connector as well as pin 27 and 25 in PAL. I was able to capture that with a USB video grabber. Through some help I got my eyes on more documentation, mainly manuals but not a full engineering manual with details to the serial communication. It sounds as if the documentation is lost on Thermoteknix end as this product dates back to 2006.There is a vertical USB Mini-B connector on the top board not fitted by default and not fitted in either of my cores. On the big core I took the first and second board off and traced back the USB controller to the top. I solder in jumper wire to pin into USB. Sadly it doesn't work out of the box and I need to go down a few more roads to get UVCvideo or full digital data readout (there are two USB modes specified in one quick start guide). My current to do list is to try to get USB in Ubuntu (Fedora didn't work), connect USB to the smaller core, obtain more documentation and software, learn about RS232 and VLDS, get more equipment and tools.I will post detailed photos of the boards in the following replies.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 08:17:48 pm
content: first board

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 08:27:31 pm
content: second board,the full part number below the sticker is TMS320C6414ZLZ

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2019, 08:32:26 pm
content: third board only from ontop.additionally the look below the 32mm F/1.0 lens onto the stuck shutter of the 110K-35 core. The shutter did unstuck and now both leaves move again, however there is an ever so tiny gab on the one side that still leaks in. Before this camera gets used this will need to be fully repairs, but I expect this to be just a screw to be losen and tighten again.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2019, 08:46:48 am
content: The designers didn't waste much space on that second board! There's almost more silicon than PCB!Interesting to see that the NUC flag (on the last photo) has obviously been scraping the casing. I wonder if that noise was what caused the original owner to get rid of it...?

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2019, 10:25:39 am
content: After having to deal with something else for nearly a week I got some more breakthroughs. I established a serial connection via a cheap USB-RS232 dongle and I receive a few lines of status information such as version, firmware date and hardware # upon powering the core. While that is great, talking back to the core has yet to be successful. There is no response whatsoever. I will try again a day later as that has miraculously fixed an issue for me before. It might be an issue with the adapter or firmware I am using.Furthermore I will try to follow the serial signal and read up on the chips used to get more ideas. I am very inexperienced on the matter and learning a long the way. But that is pretty much the experience I am after.I hope to share more success stories soon and get my hands on digital data.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2019, 09:27:19 pm
content: Turns out that Serial input is grounded. The RS232 interface is provided by a max3222. As I was unable to find any jumpers up to the chip that might be a custom option of this core, efforts have begun to bypass the max3222 and talk to the serial logic directly.Right now I don't understand why the serial input is disabled or how it's been done. The 30pin had only 5 wires connected: video signal, video ground, serial out, serial ground and in; So it has to be used for something.For me this project is a lot about understanding and learning. I spent a lot of time inspecting the boards and tracing signals, searching for chips and reading spec sheets. It's not much progress for a week but I will continue. School finishes in two weeks and afterwards I have lots of time to put into it. I will also need to aquire test equipment, and I got a really hard time to make purchases, so that will be tough for me.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:55:14 pm
content: after a longer downtime(exams, finishing school, vacation;) - I am turning back to this project. I gained back my motivation after watching all the thermal music videos and seeing some interesting EE videos that YouTube recommended. Seeing the other very ambitious projects work onLater today I will try to lift pin16 carefully to detach it from ground and maybe talk to the core like this. I don't have any scope or real RS232/logic serial converter, but I will look into getting both soon. The two chips next to the max3222 areDS90LV031ATand I have to trace them out further to maybe understand what they are used for.There are only 5 wires going to the header: video signal, video ground, serial transmit, serial receive and serial ground. Why would they wire up the serial receive if it does not work. It feels like I am missing something but I am inexperienced and do not notice it.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 04:16:58 pm
content: This is "on-topic", honest !I would like to share an interesting turn of events.......I recently purchased a used, but nice condition Rugged Tablet PC on eBay. Nothing new there for me as I often buy such.The tablet arrived yesterday and I did my usual functional and data checks on it. I was surprised to find the complete Win7 OS still installed from 2011 and only specific files from the previous owner had been deleted. These were clearly seen on the Restore menu !The deleted programs included MS Office, some minor applications and "Pitchat". Upon investigating the remaining files on the Tablet I discovered exactly what the unit had been doing in its previous life. If I mention "Pitchat", Thermal imaging and tyre 'profiles' in the same sentence, you might also guess what it was being used for ! The proof was the hidden wallpaper image file that identified a very well known Formula 1 racing team ! I will say no more thoughThe file system also contained a word that jumped out of the screen at me.......THERMOTEKNIX !Upon entering that folder I found Miracle cameras listed with what looked to be configuration files of some sort plus some sample images. There was also a Pleora folder and I found NI MAX plus some other NI stuff on the Tablet.It is my belief that this tablet was used by a certain well known F1 team with the Thermoteknix Miracle cameras to monitor the tyre temperatures and heat distribution across their surface. This is a very well known use of thermal cameras in motor racing.The software that I believe was in use for the task was NI MAX and associated elements, Pleora hardware Video to Ethernet converter and Thermoteknix software.I have yet to determine whether the NI software was doing all the work and controlling the cameras or whether there is some Thermoteknix software involved that I have yet to find. No Thermoteknix software appears to have been deleted from the tablet if the logs are to be believed.There is a also a tantalising "Licence" folder that contains a Licence Key that is not in Microsoft format. I wonder what that Licence is for ?For anyone still wondering, I suspect "Pitchat" is some form of in-house team message handling program.I can undelete all the deleted programs, including PitChat but my gut feeling is to leave well alone. This Tablet came from an IT recycling company but, unlike most, it does not appear to wipe the hard disks prior to sale ! I do not want to cause upset by recovering sensitive F1 data, especially as one of my neighbours actually works in that specific F1 racing team ! Some coincidence ! I may have a chat with him about the tablet.If I work out anything useful about the Thermoteknix stuff on the tablet I will share that here.Fraser

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 04:57:43 pm
content: Looks like a whole load of NI drivers and the software were deleted and logged in the Restore Points.It looks like the NI software was doing the work with the Thermoteknix cameras. I may recover that NI software but will need to think about that step.I just noticed the Tablets "Given name" .... it is a bit of a giveaway as to its use ..... "Tyretablet"The windows "Temp" folder made for interesting reading !Fraser

author: bap2703
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 05:07:46 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on October 17, 2019, 04:57:43 pmSomething like 307K ? 😅

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 05:25:56 pm
content: Not quite but some installation logs that contain some interesting information.I have the “Trackside” MS Office installation logs for the F1 teams server. I have the server name, Dimain name and DNS. The F1 team identity detailed in the domain name confused me but some Googling revealed the reason for the different name .... the racing team changed name a few times !Having just looked up the history of the specific F1 team ID held on this tablet I can see that in 2011 to 2013, when it was being used, a VERY famous racing driver was likely being supported by this Tablets dataNow he question is, do I recover all the deleted data. I am capable of doing so but uncertain whether such is wise. The data is very old now anyway. This Tablet could be of interest to hard core F1 fans of the particular team it served..... I can effectively return it to full “Trackside” configuration complete with its impressive wallpaper and Pitchat client. Hmmmm some thought needed.Fraser

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 10:04:20 pm
content: what an interesting coincidence. The project for me has sadly hit a dead end a few months back and I don't see the way forward right now. A possible temporary solution to just get the camera portable with a monitor and analog DVR, the correct way to do it with future value would be to go with a professional external monitor, power solution and analog to SDI converter. but that adds up to 1000€ easily. A cheap solution would be to get a portable video grabber, but mpeg is horrible for the way AGC works and would further butcher the signal(digital sensor to analog upscaled to PAL -> digitally recorded and compressed into some form of mpeg). I have been looking at what offerings are available but it seem to be a lot of rebrands and ripoffs.Thermoteknix seem to have sold the MIRICLE cores with and without enclosure, but also with different optional output options. From what I can physically see nothing (but the USB socket) is missing on the board and as some said it may just be a single 0 resistor they use to disable/enable some parts. Optional options include USB out, LVDS and calibration with radiometric data. In the camera system I took mine out of, the analog signal was used, there are 3 outputs for the same signal. But there was also serial into the camera. That means it was used and the cores weren't configured to block it, one day I will have the tools to find out what is wrong and restore it. Only then it gets interesting on the software side, but any piece you manage to find will help in one way or another. Emailing Thermoteknix only resulted in a few documents, their MIRICLE control software is also no longer for sale.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2019, 08:55:14 pm
content: Alright, the prototype v1 is done. This for me is the first time the camera was free from the lap supply or laptop. I only required to solder two places, everything non permanent. There are wires dangling about and it can't be operated with just two hands for now.here is a little demo I threw together with the first footage I just on the spot:I will tell you the parts used and show some pictures of the camera in the following days. I am just very glad to move further with this project. It's a first start and there will be more to come, a lot more.

author: Ultrapurple
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2019, 08:34:53 am
content: Great to see you're finally getting pictures -greatpictures - from your gear! Well done, and keep up the good work.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2019, 03:28:23 pm
content: Yep, looking good. Was that a handful of lady chest at that one segment showing the handprint or is it just me?

author: adammunich
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2019, 02:19:14 am
content: I think if you slapped four of those very small 320 x 240 uBolometers into an array you would be able to merge the video streams for higher resolution. The lens parallax error over 2cm won't be much.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2019, 09:48:55 am
content: i only have one of these QVGA+ sensors as of now. But I do have a VGA sensor as well.Parallax is only one issue. Having four lenses and focussing all of them will be the hardest even when you manage to rule out syncing.The parallax in two cores next too each other would almost be enough to make a 3D movie.I decided to take the camera with me on a trip today and get some impressions from the outside world. Will likely put it together in the coming days and experiment more with colors.

author: Vipitis
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2019, 11:49:31 pm
content: Alright let's show 'the monster'. The main piece of tech I added is a Immersion RC Power Play. It was very new and offered h.264 as well as high frame rates. It is self contained powerwise and can optionally output 7.3V as well. A TRRS breakout board is used right now to bring the signal via UF.L coax into the TRRS for the DVR. It is a really bad soldering job but the best I was able to do.For 5V power I just use a USB power bank and put an on/off switch in line.As my 3D printer isn't that function as of right now it's held together by some rubber bands and tape(the Ultrapurple spirit).Very temporal, but the next stage of the Prototype. It can be used with two hands and I made another demo video with a little story (and cats):Upcoming steps:improve connections and cable management.design and 3D print something of a body around it to protect the exposed PCBs.swap in the other core but keep the lens.unstuck the shutter.film outside (when it isn't raining).look for opportunities to probe the core and make digital out eventually happen.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 14, 2019, 12:21:35 am
content: The kitty cat is the star of the filmBe a little careful when using a power bank. Their outputs can be very noisy if a cheap boost converter is used in them.Fraser