Cloned STM32F411CEU chips are any good? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 3dgeo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 09:12:15 pm
content: Hello,I want to order few prototype PCBs with STM32F411CEU, but I notices that LCSC are out of these STM32 chips.I'm not going to use clones in my final product, but should I try theseSTM cloneswhile LCSC restocks?I assume factories that make those chips are same factories that makes genuine ST chips, but selling them "under the table"...Edit: ended up buying both chips:

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 09:25:06 pm
content: Its not a clone, the only clones we know of here are STM32F103. Either you will end up with a real STM32F411 or its fake and won't work at all (remarked or similar).The main issue here is shipping time, do you have the time to wait for these to arrive? If they do arrive and don't work, will that cause a huge hassle? I'll assume this is for hobby use.Looks like LCSC has STM32F411CCU6TR in stock $7, or you can get CEU's from digikey or another local distributor ~$10/ea.

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 09:37:32 pm
content: If you're going to use the real thing in your final product you should spend a few more bucks and get dev boards with the real thing as well.Cheaper than losing days debugging unexpected behavior when you go from one to the other.

author: 3dgeo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 10:09:15 pm
content: Quote from: Kilrah on May 08, 2020, 09:37:32 pmI already have one.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 11:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on May 08, 2020, 09:25:06 pmI'm not so sure. Although I can't find details, I'm sure I have seen a list of GD 'clones' that included a F4 variant.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2020, 11:22:40 pm
content: Quote from: techman-001 on May 08, 2020, 11:08:16 pmHm yes they have some GD32F405/407/450 but they dont make 411:https://www.gigadevice.com/products/microcontrollers/gd32/arm-cortex-m4/high-performance-line/gd32f407-series/Also another user here reported GD32F303 is not compatible with the STM32 so I'm not sure about the 400 series:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/psa-gd32f303-is-not-a-drop-in-substitute-for-stm32f303/

author: 3dgeo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2020, 01:39:44 am
content: Interesting that most sellers on Aliexress painted out ST logo from the pictures, so it's definetly not genuine chips, but it's strange that they do that cos ussualy China don't care about branding.I've been waiting for a few month for LCSC, even contacted them about it, but it seams they don't care or just can't get them. So for now my only option is Ali. On Digikey/Mouser they cost aound 3 times more included taxes + I have to order bunch of them to get free shipping.I just have to risk, it's only for prototyping, will let You know how it will go...

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2020, 09:27:33 pm
content: Quote from: 3dgeo on May 09, 2020, 01:39:44 amIt is odd, Blueskull had some ideas but I'm not sure its conclusive. I don't agree that just painting out the logo means its instantly not genuine. Looking on taobao, about half have the logo and half are missing it:https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=566661414404Painting out the logo then sending a clone or unmarked chip would make some sense, then the buyer cannot dispute that its the "wrong brand" or something. Thesestm32f030were fake, logo scrubbed off the image, but easily disputed and refunded.

author: rcbuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 10:17:26 pm
content: The 405/407 parts seem to be legitimate as far as the ARM core goes.https://developer.arm.com/tools-and-software/embedded/cmsis/cmsis-packs/devicesLook at GigaDevice listing. Whether it duplicates the STM32F407 part is unknown. Also, they seem to be unobtainium to U.S. customers. At least I couldn't find a website selling them.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 11:15:53 pm
content: Quote from: rcbuck on May 12, 2020, 10:17:26 pmCore is legit yeah, its if they copied the registers and peripherals.LCSC has some 407 here:https://lcsc.com/product-detail/GigaDevice_GigaDevice-Semicon-Beijing-GD32F407VET6_C108421.html$7Same price as real stm32:https://lcsc.com/product-detail/ST-Microelectronics_STMicroelectronics-STM32F407VET6_C28730.htmlOn taobao its ~$4 for either. Which seems consistent, price is barely cheaper for these GD parts.So, there is not so much justification to try them out. Unless there is a chance performance is greater due to the SRAM cache.

author: rcbuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2020, 11:39:59 pm
content: thm_w, thanks for the link. I agree, there is no justification to try them. If they were $4 or so I might order a couple just to test.I just ordered a few of the real STM32F407VET6 parts from Mouser today. They are $9.91 but I know they will work.Edit: Actually ordered STM32F417VET6 parts.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 01:09:33 am
content: Quote from: rcbuck on May 12, 2020, 11:39:59 pmPlus you can easily download comprehensive, detailed and accurate datasheets for the STM32F417VET6 from STMicro.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 01:39:41 am
content: If they licensed the chip from ST, and you bought them new from LCSC I'd guess they are of similar quality and legal. just cheaper. But intended for the Chinese market. So datasheets in Chinese would not be surprising. Ali Express, I guess youre taking a chance you might get recycled parts sometimes.And they might not work or be skanky in some way, sure. I'd just pay the extra money and buy locally.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2020, 03:08:25 am
content: Quote from: cdev on May 13, 2020, 01:39:41 amDo you mean, licensed the ARM core from ARM, and the peripherals from STMicro because STMicro doesn't own the Cortex-M cores it licenses ?So far we aren't seeing licensed STM32 chips from China, the clones have some differences which make them incompatible with the genuine STMicro chips. It's still unclear what is going on, but I doubt any of it is legal in the West.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 09:22:47 pm
content: Hmm.. well, then they should call them something else. Save people a lot of heartache..Have people identified what the differences are?Quote from: techman-001 on May 13, 2020, 03:08:25 am

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2020, 11:52:05 pm
content: Quote from: cdev on May 14, 2020, 09:22:47 pmThey should have made their own chips with their own name, I totally agree, but that method is the profit slow track.By counterfeiting the STM part names they get to sell into an established market for a quick and illegal profit, instead of waiting for their part to be adopted based on the performance, technical documentation and price.Given that a STM32F103 has 33 peripherals, 466 registers and 3503 bitfields, identifying all the differences with clones is *never* going to happen imho, there is just no incentive for anyone to do that.Some differences have been found by people who didn't realize they had a fake and hours debugging before they twigged, here is one:-https://www.stm32duino.com/viewtopic.php?p=865&sid=4691deba3946368120f63923a877f10a#p865

author: 3dgeo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2020, 10:33:51 pm
content: Hi, was occupied by other stuff and totally forget this thread – I end up ordering fake chips, and few days after LCSC got them in stock, so I have both chips. LCSCs chips looks legit (and obviously works), chips from Ali looks funky. Still will be busy for couple days, but when I can I solder fake one and see if it works or performs as good.Guesses where are fake chips?Think 935 means 2019 35 week, and 011 - 2020 11 week.

author: Joku
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2020, 10:14:45 pm
content: Fake or otherwise, looks to me like the chip has been salvaged?Wonder what happens to all the relatively expensive legit IC's on production PCBA's that don't pass Chinese production testing?I've always done my PCBA testing locally and failures predominantly make their way to e-waste, usually not worth repair and generally don't have the in-house equipment to do cost effective IC salvage and re-use even if I wanted to. I still do fault finding, but generally only for product and process refinement to reduce future failure rates. Would love to salvage $10 IC's if I were a chinese factory worker.

author: techman-001
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2020, 11:57:20 pm
content: Quote from: 3dgeo on August 19, 2020, 10:33:51 pmI'm guessing they may both be legit, but the one on the left may have been reclaimed from e-waste with the top reprinted to look new ?Only one way to be sure, send one of each to our resident decapper 'Noopy' ?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 01:01:34 pm
content: Can anyone tell what is the expected legit response of an stm32f411 to an stlink query?

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 02:39:54 pm
content: So story: friend buys on Ali cheap black pill boards.Package says STM32F411CEU6 date 537 see pictureSTlink util says :device: STM32F411xC/EDevice ID; 0x431Revision: Rev AFlash size 512 KBytesSTlink probe says:flash 512kB ram 128kB chipid 0x0431description: stm32f411reSo can not understand why the probe say 411re and the link says 411xC/E but as far as i can tell it looks legit. I unfortunately do not have a nucleo board with this 411 chip, only 40x and 445 so if anyone has a 100% legit 411 and can confirm these data , it would be appreciated

author: Kjelt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 05:33:40 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 19, 2020, 04:23:12 pmSpace is the easiest to build for, since if it malfunctions noone can be harmed

author: ralphrmartin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2020, 06:01:58 pm
content: Depends how soon after launch it blows up!