Opinions on brands of OLD scopes - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 10:55:18 pm
content: I've decided that trying to save up for a full DSO right now is going to take longer than I'm willing to wait but if I can dump a small amount into an analog scope it might get me moving along faster.Here's some brands I've been seeing on the cheapest ranges (Less than 150, or better, less than 100):BK Precision - Most of these scopes look very very vintage, sometimes with round screens.LG / EZ Digital - These look fairly nice for the price, and don't look too old.Philips - Look a little more vintage but attractively so.Tek - Seeing a lot of older ones, but the name seems to add to the priceHitachi - These look pretty niceHP/Agilent - Again like the Tek, the name adds to the price a bit, but I am highly interested in the digital HP scopes that use a phosphor CRT.Let me know if you know of some other good brands to look for or brands to stay away from.Now up front I'm going to say I'm going to skip on any scope that has banana plugs.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:02:43 pm
content: I'm missing Iwatsu. They are pretty decent and not very common. For some models you can find complete service manuals on the internet.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:03:45 pm
content: Kikusui if you can find one. The Tek ones are a little more money but parts can be easier to find as they are more common and are fairly reliable. Many of the 80s scopes contain unobtainium hybrid chips that, if blown, will be difficult to source replacements for.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:06:54 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on June 30, 2013, 11:03:45 pmYeah I'm getting a bit irritated at the Tek stuff because there's so many parts and manuals that people are trying to hock in the Oscilloscope section. Some guy looks like he emptied out some office because he's selling any kind of piece of paper on it with a Tek logo including calibration sheets, most of which have someone's name hand written on them.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:10:49 pm
content: Trio did some nice mid-range analogue scopes.Older HP digital scopes (pre 546xxx series) are pretty rubbish & best avoided.

author: don.r
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:11:16 pm
content: If you add -manual to your search it eliminates all the manuals.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:19:47 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on June 30, 2013, 10:55:18 pmI've seen some pretty new-looking (OK, 70s and 80s) BKs.QuoteI've used (and repaired) a couple of these. Well built and quite usable, if not very impressive. Add GoldStar to the list, they're LG. I'd easily recommend them if you're looking for something 50 MHz or less. Pretty much all off-the-shelf parts, too, so easy to fix.QuoteI see LGs and BKs selling for the same price as Teks all the time, and vice versa. I guess it just depends on the model. Some of the "newer" ones are quite impressive and worth the increased price.I'd agree that the HP/Agilent name appears to add to the price, though, which is rather confusing seeing how my experience with older HP scopes is generally that they just suck.Quotes/scope/toy/

author: rstoer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:30:28 pm
content: The Hitachi's are nice. Also don't overlook Hameg (Made in Germany) and Instek. There are lots of reasonably priced analog scopes on eBay from those manufacturers.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:30:31 pm
content: Quote from: don.r on June 30, 2013, 11:11:16 pmWell yes and no. I have been doing it and it does somewhat help but people seem to be doing the best they can to remove any reference to paper or manual in the description to keep their crap in the list.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:33:24 pm
content: I keep looking for Hamegs and rarely see them.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2013, 11:37:38 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 30, 2013, 11:10:49 pmNow I did want to thank you for helping in my decision... even if you didn't know you were doing it.I've been going through all your videos and I know I had heard Dave talk about intensity graded displays and CRO-like screen but it wasn't until I saw your Agilent scope and saw you using it that it clicked with me why it was so important.Seeing the dark and bright spots and when you glanced at the display at one point and said "This looks like composite video" because you saw the patterns of brightness in the condensed wave form. So I'm thinking that keeping an older CRO around would be a good idea if I get a DSO because I'll likely end up with a cheaper one that doesn't have that ability.

author: david77
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 12:11:31 am
content: The Hitachi scopes seem to be quite nice & reliable. I've got the V-550B and it just keeps on working, it also does everything a similar Tek scope could do. The badge isn't as desireable as others so they seem to go cheaper in the used market.Construction-wise it is nothing to write home about. Inside is a mess of wires as it can often be found in Japanese gear.Philips scopes are nice and the lower end types like PM321x seem to be built from mostly standard components, manuals are available for many of them. So in theory should always be repairable. I have a PM3212 here that pretty much works perfectly after some repairs. Nice bonus: It's totally main isolated.Hameg scopes were pretty popular in Europe in th 70ies and 80ies, especially their HM20x models. They're built like tanks and only contain standard parts. There are even storage scopes available in this series. In comparison they are usually much more basic than other brands scopes.The Tek scopes are very desirable because they were always feature laden performance monsters. That makes for a higher price, of course. One day I want to have a 7000 series mainframe...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 12:14:34 am
content: I think I've seen a few of the Hitachi v-222 scopes out there for not too bad a price.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 12:53:26 am
content: I've used a Tek 465 for some time now. Solid state, easy to repair, no oddball ICs. Usually around $150 for a decent working scope. I looked around and found mine with a built in DMM (DM44 option) for $125 US. Lots of them around.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 01:57:48 am
content: In general, since you live in the USA, I think it would be insane to go with anything other than Tektronix, because there are just so many of those old scopes around. The 2235 and 465 are nice scopes that should be pretty easy to find. Maybe you can get lucky and find a 2465. If you live in a decent-sized city, you should be able to buy via craigslist, so you can check it out first, and not worry about shipping damage. I agree that your options are more limited if you have to buy via eBay.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 02:53:32 am
content: I've got a nice Tek 464 (same as 464 but with storage options) looking for a home. I just haven't found the right box to ship it yet. I have pics around here somewhere.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:25:12 am
content: Quote from: marshallh on July 01, 2013, 02:53:32 amOh?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:28:19 am
content: I have a Kenwood CS4025 and it is a great scope; probably not as featured or known as the other brands, but back when I bought it their reputation was quite good. Some very good service manuals are available online as well, which eases the fear of buying something used.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 04:27:21 am
content: Kikusui made some excellent scopes, peaking at around the COS6100M I think.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 04:32:33 am
content: Kikusui 4CH 100MHz with readout $125http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kikusui-COM-7100A-Oscilloscope-100MHz-/121135792137?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item1c34418009Good value philips:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-Fluke-PM-3070-100MHz-Oscilloscope-/290913705284?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item43bbcedd44

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 04:37:46 am
content: From our friends in Israel, a unique fixer-upper-a opportunity:http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEKTRONIX-2245A-OSCILLOSCOPE-100MHz-/181095227734?hash=item2a2a1de156

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 05:25:17 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2013, 04:37:46 amOwned by little old lady who only used it on Sundays, slight scratch on the glass.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 01:19:20 pm
content: Is it only me or Tek scopes are highly overpriced compared to others like Hitachi? ( specially the 465)

author: Radio Tech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 02:31:01 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on July 01, 2013, 01:19:20 pmI dont think so.I bought 2 Tektronix 2235 scopes for under 20 bucks each. One would say luck, I dont beleive in luck. It's just being in the right flea market at the right time.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 03:01:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2013, 04:37:46 amYou do occasionally see Tek CRTs going for a reasonable price. The inside seems OK, nobody's salvaged any boards or anything. Don't know if I'd try to sell a CRT-less scope for $215, though, unless it was a lot better than a 2245A...Quote from: ivan747 on July 01, 2013, 01:19:20 pmThe prices fluctuate. They seem to be running a bit high lately, but give it time.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2013, 05:12:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2013, 04:27:21 amIf you are feeling brave... Checkthis eBay listing.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 09:50:30 am
content: Ok I've seen a few Tek TAS 455/465/475 scopes for fairly cheap, but for all of them they have a no-doa guarantee but that's it.One of them the price is really cheap but the shipping is high. That was described as "works but with glitches"Opinions on that series? And what can you do with an "Analog Storage" scope?At first I thought they were what some people were talking about earlier in this thread, but a TAS 465 and a 465 appear to completely different series.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 02:23:14 pm
content: Quote from: grenert on July 01, 2013, 01:57:48 amDitto what grenert says:There are many models of Tektronix scopes (almost everyone ever made) to choose from on eBay and probably other sources. And within any model you can find multiple samples if you are just a little patient. Among the Tek models you can find almost any combination of features and you can no doubt find good prices. I still don't have a digital scope but the Tektronix 2247A I purchased years ago has continued to run like a champ (knock on wood) and I still haven't learned all the features. It's like a continuous treasure hunt. Whether you look at the 400 series or the 2200 series or the 2400 series you can't go far wrong if you just find a decent unit from a good seller, and sometimes it's possible to find units in excellent condition. As with purchasing anything used it takes some study and perceptiveness to figure out what you are getting plus a tad bit of luck but it's definitely doable to get a very good scope at a good price. For a few hundred dollars or less I think you could be very happy with either the the 400 series or the 2200 series, and for a few hundred dollars more a 2400 series might be very cool investment too. Plus, the parts, documentation, and know-how support ecosystem is probably second to none.My guess is that in the $275 to $300 range some of these buyers got a very good deal and if the scope was in really good condition it would have been a good deal at $400:http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=tektronix+2247a&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_okw=&_oexkw=&_adv=1&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=3&_dmd=1&_ipg=200This one looks very nice:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2247A-Four-Channel-100-MHz-Oscilloscope-/121095525788?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item1c31db159c&nma=true&si=67FC5UV9n%252BVVXS0bLc0vxmuW4tg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_626wt_1017

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 04:04:05 pm
content: I'm staying under 100 for now.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 04:29:18 pm
content: You are in the US so checkCraig's List. Sometimes there are good deals locally and you can try them out first. I've found some really nice pieces of Tek gear within a short driving distance for under $100.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 05:51:40 pm
content: I'm a Philips fan. Might be biased because at school (80s) most test equipment was from them.Their lab equipment department has always produced good tools.At home I have the PM3305, one of their first analog/digital scopes.Living in a country that borders with Holland, Philips has been dominating our electronic life up to the late 80s: lamps, radios, tv, vacuum cleaner, refrigerator, shaver, hair dryer, coffee grinder, water cooker, mixer - even my first xt compatible with mouse screen and printer - aaah - everythingThe lab equipment department is now part of Fluke.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 07:30:26 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 02, 2013, 04:29:18 pmSo far craigslist has been a bust. Several people trying to sell 1950's scopes as collectible.http://dallas.craigslist.org/search/sss?zoomToPosting=&query=oscilloscope&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=101Plus I refuse to buy something from someone who doesn't know the difference between Dual and DuelI found one of these for $50 (Same model but no cart or accessories)Snap-on MT1665 Oscilloscopebydolphinfxt, on FlickrNot sure how good it would work for me. But might help with car repairs.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 09:37:18 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on July 01, 2013, 04:32:33 amThe Kikusui COM7100A looks fine, but you could probably get a Tek 2445 for the same price. Maybe he will accept a lower offer though.That Philips PM3070 seems to be missing a bunch of knobs, so I would avoid it. I don't like that model very much because I don't think the LCDs are very readable, and I've seen some that have gone black. (I have a soft spot for the PM3267, which is a simple Tek 465 like model.)In general, if you are looking at anything other than Tek or HP, make sure you have a service manual lined up before you buy. If you have to spend $50 on it, that can easily wipe out the savings from buying an off brand.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 10:37:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on June 30, 2013, 11:02:43 pmI agree that Iwatsu make excellent scopes. eg the SS-5711 is a very nice and solidly built 100MHz (4 channel!) scope from the 1980s and is easy to use. There is also a 60MHz version the SS-5710.I'm less keen on Philips or HP scopes from the 1980s because they have such flimsy controls. eg it's quite common to see missing/broken knobs or worn out timebase controls.My favourite scope is the classic Tek 465 but it does suffer a bit of fan noise and some may find this tiring or distracting in an otherwise quiet workroom. Plus these scopes are getting very old now...Iwatsu really are hard to beat if you want a reliable analogue scope that has good quality user controls and a nice CRT.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 10:42:04 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on July 02, 2013, 07:30:26 pmWhy not? People who make spelling errors obviously have no idea / don't really care what they are selling and are likely to get you a good deal.

author: Skegget65
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 10:51:48 pm
content: Opinion on a Advance Instruments/Advance Components Ltd OS3000.I hope it's not crapGot it cheap, to be in Sweden anyway. I think it is 40 MHz but not sure.Haven't found user/service manual yet, anyone know where to find one?What Test probe do I need, 40MHz or higher is better?Sorry for my bad English

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 11:23:29 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 02, 2013, 10:42:04 pmDual/Duel is an old pet peeve of mine from long ago. I don't know why. It just is.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 11:30:57 pm
content: Quote from: Skegget65 on July 02, 2013, 10:51:48 pmVälkomna! Min farfars far var från Sverige. Hans efternamn var Andersson men ändrade det när han kom till Amerika eftersom det var alltför vanligt. Jag tror faktiskt inte talar svenska. Jag använde google.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 11:33:04 pm
content: Never buy any Tesla oscilloscope from Czechoslovakia... They are too heavy and non-modern.

author: grenert
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 11:58:47 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on July 02, 2013, 07:30:26 pmWhat are you talking about???From the Dallas craigslist:Tek 455http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/ele/3902809332.htmlTek 7600 serieshttp://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ele/3876504465.htmlCool super-retro Tek 547 boat anchorhttp://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/ele/3889285718.html

author: bluesmoke
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 12:06:30 am
content: QuoteI think you need a new fan... my 465b fan is whisper quiet.

author: JohnnyP
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 01:04:25 am
content: I picked up a nice Tek 2235 from ebay for $250 a couple weeks ago.Shown here with my Leader LBO-315, which is small enough to take on calls and can be powered from 12v.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 01:23:14 am
content: Not sure Craigslist is the best/safest way to purchase scopes or anything - Craigslist probably has it's plusses and minuses, but a random sampling indicates there are some interesting items for sale - although not a lot under $100.http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/ele/3892961254.htmlhttp://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ele/3839068592.htmlhttp://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ele/3789099182.htmlhttp://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/3895432583.htmlhttp://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/3895476283.htmlhttp://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/3895647544.htmlhttp://inlandempire.craigslist.org/ele/3879415129.htmlhttp://porthuron.craigslist.org/for/3878649201.htmlhttp://denver.craigslist.org/ele/3860461633.htmlhttp://milwaukee.craigslist.org/ele/3828878296.html

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:42:30 am
content: Quote from: grenert on July 02, 2013, 11:58:47 pmWell after seeing the TAS 455 that I could have gotten for less than $100 on Ebay if I didn't feel like getting some sleep for a change the regular 455 didn't look as appealing.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 03:11:37 am
content: Quote from: bluesmoke on July 03, 2013, 12:06:30 amMy 465 is quiet also. Original fan. Bought it at a swap meet a few years ago for $125 from an older tech that repaired and calibrated them for a living. It's got the DM44 option (digital meter) also.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 04:07:30 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on July 03, 2013, 02:42:30 amAre you sure you want a TAS scope? It's a lot more convenient to have more knobs on the scope, instead of menus...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 09:54:25 am
content: I like menus!Several little toaster shaped Yokogawa scopes just went on Ebay. I haven't seen any like that before.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 10:11:16 am
content: The TAS scopes were much cheaper built and are generally considered inferior to the normal 400 or 2200/2300/2400 series. They were cheap analog scopes introduced when digital scopes were starting to get popular. Are schematics even available for the TAS scopes?They may have some features like cursors and autoset not available on the 400 series, and they are newer, but I would much rather have a 465 or 455 scope than a TAS. The similarity of the model numbers is only marketing, just like the 465 and 465M.

author: Yankee495
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 08:05:17 pm
content: Hi all...first post.I just bought a Tektronix 468 digital storage scope. I know, it is not so hot as a digital but even if the digital didn't work I would still have a good analog scope. The digital on top of this one is not a DMM, it is storage. Thought I'd add that for people who may confuse the two.Well, it arrived and it all works. The top corners on the digital got scuffed and bent down to the point it made small cracks on the top. It looks like they set another scope on top of it and "drug it off", had plastic fuzzy road rash. This did not happen in shipping because it was packed like they never wanted me to get it open.It works great and calibration seems to be really good also. It came from Halliburton and had a repair made in 1991 to the +5 and looking inside it they replaced a lot of caps.Deals are out there and after getting outbid over and over I hit buy it now! I may have paid a little more than some would want to, but I got one today and it works!I posted this because the 468 seems to be an orphan in conversations most of the time. It is basically a 465 100 Mhz scope with a digital storage unit on top.Here it is:http://www.ebay.com/itm/171057434738?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649Note: The numbers in the second picture could be an error message on the digital part but they are not. Just because it is lit up does not mean it is functional. Read the manual for error codes. No errors should be all zeros after startup then it may show a measurement reading. You can turn it off and just use the analog scope.

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 08:25:56 pm
content: The 468 is an interesting scope. The DSO part is not impressive by today's standards (25MS/s, 10MHz bandwidth and cursors for voltage and period), but it is on top of a 100 MHz analog scope and, depending on your application, can still be very useful.The TRW cpu is huge (about 1.3 x 3 inches). The ROMs can sometimes go bad, but there are procedures available to replace them. I've had a couple 468s where the digital power supply went south. Analog section still worked though.Given a choice between a 468 with storage and a 465, I'd probably pick a 465 just because it's much less complicated on the inside and somewhat easier to repair. Still a cute scope though.

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 08:40:44 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on July 03, 2013, 03:11:37 amI've used quite a few 465s and mine is a typical example I believe. Besides, 'whisper quiet' is open to interpretation as is my description of 'distracting'.To put this in perspective, the fan in my 465 is a LOT quieter than the little fan in my Marconi 2024 signal generator which is why I prefer to use my 2019 signal generators as much as possible. They have no fansIf the scope is the only thing in the room making a noise then it can be distracting to me over time. I have the same issues with laptop HDDs and hate any kind of laptop that makes a noise when running whilst I am trying to concentrate. I'm sure I'm not alone in this

author: Marc M.
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 05, 2013, 03:45:58 am
content: I've got a Tek 485 laying around collecting dust. I also just pulled 2 Tek 7633's off the bench to make room for a Rigol DS2072 arriving tomorrow. The 485 works well except the top 3 fastest sweep speeds (5,2,1 ns) don't work correctly. Paid $50 for it DOA. Replaced a hand full of tantalum caps, a couple of transistors and several diodes. I probably have about $60 in it. I'd be happy to help out a fellow EEV Blog member and sell it for the $60 I have in it + whatever shipping thru a UPS Store ends up being. Double boxed it will probably be $40-50.I have around $85 in one of the 7633's so I'd let it go for that (without plug-ins). Everything works (not sure about the storage system - never used it). But with shipping and plugins, you'd probably be over $200.Sorry, no extra probes laying around.Let me know if you're interested.Marc -