Better alternatives to PCBway - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 12:11:33 pm
content: Hi,I have a 4 layer PCB with 0.2mm via and a 3.5 mil track and space (200m x 220mm), I want to know if you know some manufacturer in shenzhen that can do it under 300USD and has similar results comparable to PCBway.

author: 741
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:48:57 pm
content: TryJLPCBElecrowITEAD

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 03:53:42 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 09, 2020, 12:11:33 pm200 meters long? wow, that is a giant PCB! And that for under 300$? I doubt it ;-PI have made good experiences with Elecrow. However, try to take a look at pcbshopper

author: sdouble
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 09:50:16 pm
content: I have been working with ourpcb for a couple of years.They are not cheap but you get what you pay for.

author: hugo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 10:45:07 pm
content: QuoteMost likely it is200mm x220mm ...

author: SL4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2020, 11:06:24 pm
content: Any reason you don’t like PCBway?I’ve had a few runs done, zero problems & good repeatable quality.

author: Georg - PY5ZSE
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 03:43:48 am
content: I would addALLPCBto the list. I worked with them several times and everything was ok.Georg

author: viperidae
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 04:25:58 am
content: That's $55+ shipping from jlcpcb.4 layer, 0.2mm via, 3.5mil space, 200*220mm

author: archnemesis
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 04:45:59 am
content: +1 for JLCPCB, super fast and dirt cheap. Never had a quality issue.

author: Ysjoelfir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 08:13:14 am
content: Quote from: hugo on January 09, 2020, 10:45:07 pmWho would have thought..

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 10, 2020, 08:55:37 pm
content: +1 for JLCPCB

author: Georg - PY5ZSE
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 01:37:49 am
content: btw, a little bit off topic:Does anybody know a pcb manufacturer who makes RF boards (Rogers, Taconic materials etc.) at reasonable prices?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 06:59:12 am
content: JLCPCB can not produce my boards sadly, because I have used some 0.2mm via hole with 0.35mm diameter ring viasalso some of my via spaces from tracks is 3.5mil which can not be produced again t JLCPCB.why they JLCPCB tech is not a bit higher!I will ask the board prices from other manufacturers to see what they say, I will askALLPCBElecrowITEAD

author: I wanted a rude username
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2020, 09:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 16, 2020, 06:59:12 amThat seems exactly in line withtheir stated capabilities:minimum drill 200 µm,minimum annular ring width 75 µm.Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 16, 2020, 06:59:12 amAgain, 90 µm is perfectly in line with their capabilities for four-layer boards.If their quote system rejects your board, ask them why.Edit: Disregard that, I cook socks.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 12:30:03 am
content: I tried AllPCB 2-layer and impressed with the speed/quality. Silkscreen isn't as good quality (pixelated), but not really an issue.I had an internal route with a square edge and they managed to get a really tight radius.https://www.eevblog.com/wiki/index.php?title=PCB_ManufacturersRecently saw someone ask about nextPCB, they seem to be a clone/competitor of JLCPCB and their prices are in line with that:https://www.nextpcb.com/pcb-capabilitiesThey also offer assembly. But no "legit" reviews I can find as of yet.Quote from: I wanted a rude username on January 16, 2020, 09:03:26 pmNo both of the things he's done are out of JLCs spec (although you can get away with some things)."via to trace >5mil (0.127mm)" according to their spec, he used 3.5mil."Minimum via diameter 0.45mm" he used 0.35mmAli, I would recommend importing their rules, if you use altium someone has created a rule file for jlcpcb. If other programs, you may have to import the values yourself. Its worth the time now instead of causing delays after submitting.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 03:10:05 am
content: Better redesign the boards because those specs are in the HDI territory and will be VERY ex🅱ensive.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:56:35 am
content: I have a fucking0.65mm BGA in the design, what should I do?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 11:57:38 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 17, 2020, 11:56:35 amSimple, pour more money, what do you expect ? Cheap 2 dollars PCB for that job ?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 12:51:09 pm
content: Thanks blueskull, I do not get it fully, any picture or example would help a lot. you are a life saverI use Altium too.

author: supperman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2020, 02:58:20 pm
content: I have been using PCBGOGO and am happy..Some say they are connected with PCBWay (same bank account) but they seem to have differing capabilities.. (one can do something when the other can't) AND they come in with vastly differing quotes.. when I send the same board to both. PCBGOGO always comes in lower.. sometimes by a lot.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 07:10:31 am
content: Thanks blueskullDo you have any Idea regarding Via size, shape and placement too (for 0.65mm)?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 18, 2020, 07:36:46 pm
content: It has 196 balls and I need almost all of them,It's i.mxRT52

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 19, 2020, 07:15:43 am
content: Thanks, How many can be done!

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 06:16:14 am
content: QuoteThanks, I have done the route completely, and I have used 0.2mm hole and 0.35mm via diameter, I wanted to use something cheaper! and Yes I have connected external RAM.Though I'm interested in Chinese parts every single day, where can I get info about AllWinner F1C200S, they usually lack datasheet and user manuals, also where to get linux? Do you have info on price too?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 07:30:27 am
content: QuoteThat's great, I take a look at it's data sheet, the only problem with this part is temp range(-20) if it was -40 to 85C it would be perfect, and lack of Ethernet.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 07:51:32 am
content: You can make weird vias aswell. Not sure how far it will get you. But main thing is to look at the manufactuing tolerances and see how they came to the annular ring spec. Usually it is based on 2x there hole positioning tolerance to prevent blowouts. But if you teardrop to the via so where the risk of a blowout is highest. You can shrink the annular ring below there spec. Your just taking on that riskMinimum drill size you will need to pay for. However it is cheaper on thin boards. As manufacturers do not like high aspect ratio drilling because thin drill bits tend to curve / risk snapping. E.g. 0.3mm hole on 1.6mm pcb is about the same difficulty as 0.2mm hole in 0.8mm pcb.You can get very creative with copper. At the end of the day if it is technically inside there specs. And you accept risks where you take things a little on the other side of the line such as blownout holes in vias. Then you can manufacture it.Have done the annualr ring thing many times before where i could not have a wide pad. But was easy to remove the blowout risk by extending it in to an oval

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 08:14:09 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 17, 2020, 11:56:35 amAccording to the docs I'm reading you should be able to fan out a 0.65mm BGA with 5/5 rules.See NXP app note AN10778, section 4.2. for an example. There are others out there as well.

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2020, 09:52:31 am
content: has worked with itead once, and allpcb about 4 times, however I was not doing BGA which might make it more obvious, and was not under there high end limits, just under the limits I was paying for, e.g. 0.4mm x 0.6mm oval annular, 0.3mm hole on a handful of vias to break out weird connectors, when I was paying for 6/6.Its kind of like how some fabs will just wave through the odd plated slots with no extra cost, but others will really shut you down for that, I suspect there are some common configurations that do not get picked up by there tools, but are handled by the machines,

author: Sylvi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 11:16:51 pm
content: HiDid anyone mention Gold Phoenix? They have an office in Canada and make great boards.They are a little more $$ than PCBway but the quality is excellent.I have had problems with PCBway 2-ounce copper pads lifting from the board during desoldering - never such a problem with Gold Phoenix.Also, with PCBway if you want the standard green solder mask that is really green, you have to select "matte green". Their default green is very blue-ish. All their colours are blue-ish. ordered white boards from them once and they were a blue-ish grey - NOT white at all.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 22, 2020, 11:28:32 pm
content: Quote from: Sylvi on January 22, 2020, 11:16:51 pmWhich service are you using exactly? Their regular service looks to be very expensive ($85+ for two layer, $200+ for four layer).The pool service is reasonably priced ($1/in 2 layer, $2/in 4 layer), but its not clear, for $1/sq inch do I only get one board?https://www.goldphoenixpcb.com/pcb-pool.html

author: Josiphe
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 10:46:16 am
content: My favorite is ALLPCB. Both their products and service is perfect. They have also updated latest information about their production during the epidemic.https://www.allpcb.com/news/allpcb-fully-resumed-work-_112.html

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 11:38:35 am
content: Today I have mailed them to see what they would say about price.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 11:53:24 am
content: I never had an AllPCB order shipped on time so take their claim with a grain of salt. Their thicknesses aren't correct either.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2020, 12:20:01 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on January 20, 2020, 08:14:09 amThat’s for a BGA which is not fully populated (there is a big blank space in the center). The MAPBGA on this device is fully populated, so there is no space for vias except between the balls.

author: atommann
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 03:52:25 am
content: Hi Ali,I just readhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/0-65mm-bga-rules-suggestions/In that thread, there's a trick in cgroen's layout: some vias are not at the center of the 4 adjacent BGA pads, so 3.5 mil tracks can go through.Maybe you can try JLCPCB again?

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2020, 07:07:55 am
content: QuoteHi atommann, do you have a escape fan out example?

author: atommann
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 01:34:46 am
content: Hi Ali,From the conversation I know you want to fan out all 196 signals, I think this all 196 signals and combine with JLCPCB's capabilities stopped the fabrication at JLCPCB.For some processors, you don't need to fan out all signals, so even with JLCPCB's limitied capabilities, it's still possible.By the way, what's the exact part number of this i.MX processor? I can try it in KiCad if I get some time.

author: ali_asadzadeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2020, 06:47:39 am
content: This is the part number MIMXRT1052DVL6A , the other members in the family has the same footprint too, so you can use other ones too

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2021, 01:16:46 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 16, 2020, 06:59:12 amBecause it’s cheap. If they made boards to those higher standards, they’d cost a lot more.But if it’s just the one component that’s causing the headache, why not put it on a small daughterboard? Then you can have the large motherboard PCB made inexpensively, and just have the small daughterboard made with the expensive technology.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 09:41:52 am
content: Quote from: Alex Pan on June 22, 2025, 09:19:29 amso you work for them and was assigned the job of spamming eevblog ..

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2025, 10:11:47 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on June 22, 2025, 09:41:52 amSurely notSee their later questionhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what-are-the-best-pcbway-alternatives/msg5955377/#msg5955377Draw your own conclusions about how much they can be trustedI wonder if they will reach 3 posts on this forum?

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 02:09:51 am
content: I bet You hate getting wet while having 6.

author: analogueAdder
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2025, 04:25:27 am
content: I can recommend OSHPark. They are slightly more expensive than the Chinese counterparts, but they are awesome!However, I'd start with the specs of each service, see what fits the requirements for the BGA, and redesign from there. You will need to pay more to fit that part. And I was going to suggest the same daughterboard idea that tooki mentioned a few posts above.

author: dosensuppe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2025, 07:04:14 am
content: Quote from: ali_asadzadeh on January 16, 2020, 06:59:12 amEurocircuits can do up to 100um I thinkhttps://www.eurocircuits.com/services/standard-pool/Though a tid more expensive than the chinese fabs (around 4 times more expensive)What's the issue with pcbway, OP?

author: dosensuppe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2025, 06:43:01 am
content: I just found out abouthttps://www.multi-circuit-boards.eu/index.htmlthey do 80x100 2 layer boards for 14€ - that's almost in line with chinese fabs - all made in germany!!!edit: well PCBway does 5 boards for 5€, but it's still a steal - you'd need to dump the failed prototypes anyways if you were to get the minimum quantity of 5 boards from a chinese vendor - such a wasteunfortunately multicircuit can only do 0.4mm vias, so propably not viable for OP.

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2025, 05:51:54 pm
content: Will this stop you using the F word, it isn't appropriate, dont get mistaken for an AmR+"6an.I think AMD (etc) seriously know their shit here:https://docs.amd.com/r/en-US/ug1099-bga-device-design-rules/General-BGA-and-PCB-Layout-Overview

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2025, 09:39:04 am
content: Quote from: dosensuppe on June 25, 2025, 06:43:01 amOP hasn’t been back to this spam-necroposted thread in almost 5 years. I’m sure they ordered their PCBs somewhere years ago.Regardless, read again regarding vias: both Multi-CB and PCBway do 0.2mm vias in the standard service. The 0.4mm you’re misreading is the viapadsize, not the via size itself.