Electronics Rated for 60Hz running at 50Hz (US to EU) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 08:00:52 am
content: OK, silly question time:I have some equipment which is US specific (110v and 60Hz only) but would like to use them in the EU with a step down transformer.One is a JBC CD-1BB soldering station. I'm not sure how the frequency difference would affect this one.Second (this one is no bid deal really) I have a cheopo hot air station. Maybe the pump will work a bit slower but can this cause any long term issues?The other important one is a subwoofer (its rated to run at 110v and 60Hz only)... Any problems with this? I can't seem to think of any as there's no AC driven motor or 'timed' device inside...maybe a tiny bit of extra heat after the step down?If it makes a difference, the sub is a Definitive Technology SC2000.Thanks for your input.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 08:52:28 am
content: Quote from: StubbornGreek on July 02, 2013, 08:00:52 amFor SMPSUs it shouldn't be any problem but a transformer built for 60Hz will become hotter when running with 50Hz instead of 60 Hz.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 02, 2013, 11:49:58 am
content: you should buy an inverter.... there's no way: you risk to damage the equipment: Imy power supply this way.... You should see if your equipment units are convertible to 50 hz 220V.One other important thing: you will damage the equipment, and the protection won't even break the circuit!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 05:25:43 am
content: It all depends upon the transformer,if one is used in the device.Well designed 60Hz transformers (read:- made in the USA or Japan) usually have enough metal in the core to operate on 50Hz without drama.If the transformer is a bit marginal to begin with,you may have troubles with overheating.Lots of240V 60Hz transformers have been used for tens of years on 240/250V 50Hz systems in Australia,so I doubt that operating a 120V transformer type supply from a stepdown transformer is going to create Armageddon!

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 10:53:00 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on July 03, 2013, 05:25:43 amLet's say: if the transformer is designed for 50Hz and 60 Hz :-) One designed for 60Hz only is smaller and a few cents cheaper, exactly what the MBAs love.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 11:04:37 am
content: The most frightening 240/220 > 120/110V converter I've seen is one which contained a SINGLE DIODE in series. The idea being that onlyhalf the AC passes, hence 1/2 power. It came with some home items from china and was sold by a REPUTABLE? Aussie company !!MANY house fires in Aussie are from bad designed P/Supplies, so like others said - don't risk it.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 11:39:25 am
content: Quote from: digsys on July 03, 2013, 11:04:37 amhahaha

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 11:48:37 am
content: If you connect an SMPS without active PFC, then this would probably work just fine. As long as the rectifier and cap can handle the voltage and it has sufficient smoothing capacitance on the primary side to smooth the 50 Hz (as opposed to the normal 100 Hz after full wave rectification) ripple. I've also seen some devices use series resistors plus a 110 V transformer for 230 V operation (I substituted it with a proper power supply). I wouldn't suggest either of these as a general solution.

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 02:50:47 pm
content: Thanks for all the replies. I really like the idea of using an inverter but its a bit out of my price range right now (too many unexpected expenses). I was going to use something like this:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889529-REG/TOPOW_TOPOW_AVR1500_Step_Down_Transformer.html

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 03:46:12 pm
content: take a look something like this may suit you:http://www.ebay.it/itm/INVERTER-DI-TENSIONE-AC220v-AC110v-300w-AMERICA-EUROPA-/300623255986?pt=Accessori_Audio_Video&hash=item45fe8ad9b2and it's under 100 eur price.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 05:14:43 pm
content: A bit off topic but relevant, I once had a 3 phase 600 volt 60HZ electric blower unit, came from a submarine the tag on the motor said it was rebuilt and gave a date and military number etc. I ran it on 415 volt 50HZ as I thought at the time that would be OK. big mistake after about half an hour run it was smoking hot and within the hour the windings had burnt out, and this was military grade equipment. I learnt then that it is a NO NO to run 60 HZ at 50 HZ unless it states on the label that it is 50/60HZ.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 03, 2013, 05:33:11 pm
content: in fact you needed an inverter 4 that: dissipation power become very relevant if you change the frequency in both ways, if you step it up or down! In fact you can burn a motor or an appliance if you run it at a low frequency for a long time (one of my buddy at school tried to get working an asynchronous motor at 10 hz for 1 hour: become so hot that burned the desk!)

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:10:15 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on July 03, 2013, 05:14:43 pmMotors & transformers are very different---We had troubles with blower motors from the USA,but never with transformers.I reiterate,if it is a quality transformer,it is very unlikely to give any problems,even if it does not specifically say 50/60 Hz.Western Australia had40Hzfor many years,but transformers for 50 Hz didn't blow up!In any case,the equipment the OP is talking about is not going to be used 24/7.All that can happen with a transformer supply is that the transformer will become slightly warmer--if it becomes noticeably hot,you can always try something else,but going with extremely complex methods to get around a probably non-existent problem strikes me as a waste of time & money.Did US military installations in 50Hz countries have huge rotary inverters (or lots of little inverters) to give 110V 60Hz in the past?I don't think so!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:13:19 am
content: What happened if the other way around ? Say like an isolation transformer designed for 50 Hz running at 60 Hz mains ?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 03:29:37 am
content: A 50Hz transformer at 60Hz is a bit more efficient than in normal use,as its losses are lower.A story I heard,which sounds like an urban myth says that when Western Australia changed its 240V40Hz. system to 50Hz,the distribution transformer's losses were lower,so their output became 250V.I'm pretty sure it isn't true,as that would be a hell of an improvement in efficiency!!Anyway,for whatever reason,WA had a 250V system for many years,where the rest of Australia had 240V.That didn't cook equipment transformers,either!

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 06:04:25 am
content: Quote from: digsys on July 03, 2013, 11:04:37 amThese used to be pretty common, and the work OK for simple resistive loads like incandescent lamps, space heaters, and toasters. Especially for things like heaters that also have a thermostat, they keep the peak power to an acceptable level. They are no good for anything with electronics or motors obviously. Since that is pretty much everything these days, they should be consigned to the dust bin of history.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 10:40:58 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on July 04, 2013, 03:13:19 amIt runs cooler.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 10:41:55 am
content: The other problem with the diode ones is that they only halve the power, not the voltage. So resistive loads are overrun by a factor of two and will have a short life (but better than the factor of 4 without the diode). I've seen some with a combination of diode and resistor, and I've seen some triac ones that presumably do phase angle control to get approximately the right rms voltage.

author: rajjie
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 04, 2013, 04:39:22 pm
content: Guys, using anything outside it's designed parameters will alter it's performance. In the case of motors it will cause it to run hotter and in the case of electronic equipment it will cause additional strain on its components. Most components are designed to work with a 10 percent fluctuation.. I have an ac unit that can use 208-255 volts ac at 50 herts, i use it at 220/60 and it's older than me..Bottom line is use it for what it is designed for,, and don't run a 600 volt blower at 400 volts because your asking for trouble.... You should consider getting equipment designed for the area your going to be stationed in... Your equipment can be used with due caution and for light work until you get new equipment

author: StubbornGreek
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2013, 04:00:26 pm
content: Lots of great info here guys, thanks for all the replies.Anyone have specific information on running 'similar' devices within the range I specified?I understand motors are a no-no.