Best Budget 4 Channel Oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: RussD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:02:44 pm
content: Hi GuysAny thoughts on the best 4 channel scopesGood Second or budget newalways liked the look of the Philips/Fluke PM3394 series but don't know how they fair with age!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:06:38 pm
content: Minimum requirements? Purpose? How something looks is often the worst starting point.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:14:38 pm
content: I have a still nicely working pm3394.today the best bang for buck is still the rigol ds1054z - search this forum for various thread about it.

author: bitseeker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:25:51 pm
content: Quote from: RussD on September 20, 2016, 07:02:44 pmHi Russ. There are many, many thoughts here when it comes to oscilloscopes. For best results, be as specific as possible with your requirements for a scope and what you will use the oscilloscope for (preferably with a description of the actual projects you're working on or will work on).Without specifics, threads will usually fill with a huge variety of opinions. If you'd like to peruse the gamut, there are numerous similar threads already to give you an idea of what folks like/dislike.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 07:49:43 pm
content: Lots of debate on the subject, no great one-size-fits-all option.If bandwidth isn't an issue and you want modern features and such, something like the 1054z is a great option (though not the only one). If you want a little more bandwidth, there's a handful of brands that can offer you new digital scopes with slightly varied featuresets with generally similar performance and form factor. If you want specific features like a logic analyzer or bus decoding options, or specifically want good fft performance or lots of memory depth, there's various things that can perform a little better in their class - but you have to know going into your search whether that's useful to you when comparing similarly priced options.If you need more bandwidth and can live with lower memory depth and fewer math and analysis options, then an older scope is probably a better option. You can get some nice scopes up to even 500MHz (or even more) or so for a similar price to a new 100MHz four channel if you're willing to go with a larger CRT screen, fewer math options, and a lot less memory depth.If you have a specific task you want to be able to do or a field you're working in, it can go a long way towards picking a scope that will suit your needs without just throwing a few grand at the problem and getting something that will do everything at least pretty well.

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 09:40:33 pm
content: I've been eyeing the Instek GDS-1054B. It's priced about the same and has roughly the same specs as the rigol that everyone recommends, but each channel has its own set of vertical knobs.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 10:21:42 pm
content: Quote from: mathsquid on September 20, 2016, 09:40:33 pmIt's a nice 'scope.But... a Rigol can easily be unlocked to get 100Mhz bandwidth, serial decoders, double RAM, extra trigger modes, etc. If you do that then it's not the same specs at all. Not even close.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2016, 11:52:25 pm
content: Don't forget the cost and quality of the probes. While you can get away with a paperclip and screened cable at 10MHz, at 100MHz and above probing technique becomes important. Consider that a 6" lead (=>150nH) and 15pF tip capacitance of a typical *10 probe will resonate at ~100MHz. In addition, at 100MHz the tip impedance is <<1kohm, not 10Mohm, and thatwillload most circuits.For some pictures, seehttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2016/09/17/scope-probe-accessory-higher-frequency-results/https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/2015/04/23/scope-probe-accessory-improves-signal-fidelity/andhttps://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com/library-2/scope-probe-reference-material/

author: RussD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 12:55:07 am
content: I'm always concerned about new gear I got badly burned with a Tek about two weeks after the warranty ran out the thing packed up they wanted so much to repair it was cheaper to buy something else, although good schematics all propriety parts with a loaded mark-upa lot of new gear has little or no service information again not good for a long happy lifeI guess I'm old fashioned but I like to think I got half a chance if something go's wrongso I will be looking for something with serviceability and reliabilitylike I said higher quality old school or new and hope it don't blowPersonally I don't need anything fast <50 MHz would do me but others might differ and this is a general question about both old and new equipment.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 02:15:43 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 21, 2016, 01:03:35 amI don't know that Rigol won't last 10 years. I mean other than a few of those CapXon capacitors the hardware is pretty solid. Also I would venture to say that most folks who buy an entry level Rigol buy it for hobby use. I doubt the scope will rack up many hours of service like scopes do in professional shops. The rotary encoders may come loose from use, but if you take care of it and you're not too rough with it, I can see it lasting 10+ years. Like most consumer electronics.I mean Rigol DS1052E is what, like 7-8 years old now? Not really seeing folks reporting issues yet.Quote from: blueskull on September 21, 2016, 01:03:35 amI haven't heard that oneYeah occasionally you will find sellers who don't know what they are selling. Or an expensive and broken piece of equipment with a simple easy fix.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 04:06:44 am
content: It's one thing to be concerned about brand new gear not based on existing designs or from no-name manufacturers with no history.... the 1054z is definitely not that. It may not be built to last 20+ years, but it has been thoroughly tested and investigated - you will certainly not be the first to consider buying one and there is TONS of information on this very forum as to hacking, servicing, and common failure modes. It is not the only 'new' scope that can claim that history, either.There's also the fact that there are plenty of reputable companies that farm out the design or manufacture of their lower end (lower bandwidth) units to others and have run into trouble because of it, even when charging a premium for the name.... so I'm not sure trying to go with an inexpensive Aglient or LeCroy would actually be better than a Rigol in terms of reliability or usability, and it would certainly be pricier for the performance. I also don't think the probes are going to make a huge difference if the bandwidths are under 50MHz - seems like there are a lot of decent options for low bandwidth probes.Have a look around for some of the older scopes from Tek, LeCroy, HP-Agilent, etc. as you may be able to get a pretty nice deal (comparable price to the default rigol or a bit less) in the under 200MHz bandwidth category, but I don't think they're necessarily better choices unless you have a specific feature to look for. Is a 15-25 year old warhorse really going to last the next 10 years any better than a 1054z.... so I wouldn't say so.... though maybe they'll be better off in 20 years time. Personally, I really like some of the newer features available on more modern scopes, I like the expanded memory depths and I find the display to be more descriptive (more relevant data on the screen), among other things. It's as much personal preference as anything regarding those, if you don't have a specific use for them.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 05:30:11 am
content: Quote from: DaJMasta on September 21, 2016, 04:06:44 amCertainly not with LeCroy (as their low end scopes are all rebadges of older Siglent scopes), but Keysight' DSOX Series has proven to be reliable and mature, and the fact that most things are handled automatically (like memory management) can be nice if you just want to focus on your measurement. It also has a very nice UI. Of course, you pay for it through the nose (they really are not cheap), and you only get a tiny sample memory.For a entry-level scope these days I'd rather look at GW Instek - which seems to have a very balanced set of features on a comparably powerful platform, and came to market in a more mature state than products from the Chinese B-brands Rigol and Siglent.Quote20 year old scopes will be slow and or limited in both memory and features, plus as you said after two decades they'll very likely past the zenith of their lifespan.Unless price is the most important factor I'd look at younger 2nd hand gear (i.e. 2000 and up).QuoteIf you focus on younger gear you can find this on the 2nd hand market as well, plus large bandwidths, high sample rates and tons of features. There are lots of upper mid-range and high-end scopes for what is entry-level money. But that is still closer to $1000 than to $400.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 06:21:50 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 20, 2016, 10:21:42 pmnot exactlygds1054B: 10 Meg per channelds1054z: 24 Meg shared. so when 3 or 4 channels on, 6 Meg per channelalso better fftbut the rest is true.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 06:23:28 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on September 21, 2016, 01:03:35 amboo-ya didn't know that second part. thank you sir

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 08:44:22 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on September 21, 2016, 06:21:50 amLocked Rigol: 12MbUnlocked Rigol: 24MbThat's double.

author: RussD
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 09:01:06 am
content: It's a shame Hameg sold out, loved there build quality, like an old Volvo of the electronics world, you can't get rid of it because it never lets you down. I have two both still working as intended twenty years on the only maintenance in all that time was a squirt of switch cleaner.They don't make them like that any-more!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 09:45:26 am
content: Quote from: RussD on September 21, 2016, 09:01:06 amI, too have some fond memories of Hameg analog scopes but frankly, they weren't exactly built like tanks. Hameg made nice simple analog scopes of decent build quality for a moderate price. Unlike Tek, who back then sought the cutting edge and built scopes like tanks, Hameg kept their designs simple and avoided the use of custom ICs, which made them easily repairable.I'm not sure why you believe Hameg "sold out" as they were unlikely to survive on their own in the market once the analog scope went the way of the Dodo. Hameg is part of R&S now, and while Hameg scopes are no longer made in Germany, production is still in Europe (CZ). And while the current Hameg/R&S Value Line scopes could use some refresh in terms of features, screen and memory, they still are reliable and dependable scopes, and I'd expect them to last for a similar long time as any of the older Hamegs.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 10:07:19 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on September 21, 2016, 08:44:22 amsorry i thought you were comparing to the GDS

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2016, 10:09:51 am
content: Quote from: RussD on September 21, 2016, 09:01:06 amnever really cared for hameg scopes, though i really loved the mainframes for multimeters/power supply/signal generator. we had a lot of those at school