Professional assembly mishaps - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2017, 08:15:19 pm
content: Just a few of those sweet little things UK assembly houses did to me over the years...I had hundreds and hundreds of rejects. And then there are stories... Quite a few of stories.These are all from ISO9000 certified UK companies.Leo

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 03:55:28 am
content: That first one!!!

author: dave_k
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 05:05:21 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 13, 2017, 08:15:19 pmThat merely assures thequalityof the mishap...

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 09:07:52 am
content: Quote from: dave_k on October 14, 2017, 05:05:21 amSeriously though, they qualify for theaward IMHO.

author: Mattylad
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 10:20:47 am
content: The first one, could this redefining what is called "flip chip" ? lolAll signs of very poor assembly and testing control.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2017, 10:31:48 am
content: ISO9000 just means all will have the same defect, not that all will be perfect. Looks like they were literally using a chip shooter in there for some.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 04:11:06 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 13, 2017, 08:15:19 pmISO900* just means they have a quality procedure. You can send them the pix and ask them to follow up with a 8D report.Looking at the images, the only one I would worry about is the last one, because it could be a serial error.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2017, 09:14:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 15, 2017, 04:20:33 am

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 12:34:29 pm
content: Today's scoop.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:49:20 pm
content: That shit happens,I have had completely wrong values (Apparently the reel was mislabelled!).Wrong way around, especially good fun with tants....1mm pitch FPGAs where the tray had been fumbled and they were randomly twisted on the paste, oh how we laughed.Completely upside down is a new one on me however, how the hell??!Then we come to the fun that sometimes follows when the assembly house decides to monkey with the paste mask before getting the stencils made (And without asking first), very annoying.Assembly houses are pretty much a case of 'who has pissed you off least recently'. They all allege to do AOI, I think the AOI machine is sometimes the intern.Regards, Dan.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 01:52:41 pm
content: So no AOI?Even my non-ISO9001 (or anything) local CEM has AOI - it's not perfect (current favourite is it won't pick up SOT223's with a leg bent upwards) but close to it.Great to see someone else using TagConnect also.

author: dmills
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 03:05:14 pm
content: Oh everyone has AOI, it just seems to be a real fiddle to get it to reliably pick up some things.Regards, Dan.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 03:11:13 pm
content: We had panels with scorched AOI stickers on them. I guess it tells you something.Leo

author: xani
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 03:37:35 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on October 14, 2017, 03:55:28 am¯\_(?)_/¯

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 03:46:27 pm
content: I've seen upside down SOICs - even had it with my own machine.Probably a mis-pick or slipping on the nozzle, dropping & bouncing.Or just from a tube, starting teh wrong way up.Also not impossible that it was taped upside down.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 05:14:08 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 16, 2017, 03:11:13 pmImplying they did the AOI BEFORE reflow??

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 05:30:07 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on October 14, 2017, 10:31:48 am"Before implementing ISO9000, weoccasionallymade crappy products. After ISO9000, weconsistentlymake crappy products!"

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2017, 06:04:41 pm
content: One of the assembly houses also kitted some boards for us.The first batch had 175V MMBD1404A diodes replaced with 30V BAT54C diodes.Of course, all of them promptly and consistently blew up after application of 50V bus.Second batch had fake TDK components from Alibaba (the only place in the whole world I could find the fakes on) that fell off the board because tin plating was shit. Assembler assured me that all the components are genuine and have traceability certificate. I got very excited and asked for a copy. I got it (below.)I rang TDK, they just yawned and fell asleep, didn't even want to see the samples.I got a copy of the assembler ISO9001 certificate and rang the guy at BSI who signed it. He was the most "bored at work" guy in the world. Complete lack of any interested, wasn't even sure if there is a process of revoking ISO9000 certification.In the end I have given up on trying to make them lose certification and moved on from them, nobody is taking ISO9000 seriously anyway.From recent conversations with friends who are still using this particular UK company - the show still carries on.We now went through 8 assembly companies and there are only two who did not screw us up [yet.]You'd think I made it all up. I wish I did.Leo

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:20:17 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 16, 2017, 06:04:41 pmA very good way to test for fake ICs is X-ray. Many assembly factories have one for BGA use.Typically the leadframe for one IC never changes, fakes usually do not use the same leadframe. Dice size will be different too. That's how I identified a fake Maxim CAN bus IC.To ask a factory to buy parts for you is always extreme high risk. Buy everything yourself from Mouser etc., that is the safest way.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:29:42 am
content: Quote from: Yellofriend on October 17, 2017, 02:20:17 amDepends on who you're asking. I regularly do design with a local company; they are, in turn, part of a global CM. They have good procedures in place. For example, for a proto run, they only buy exactly what you specify (mfg+pn, if not supplier too). I have seen mistakes in protos, but they're more easily attributed to lazy employees than bad procedures or management I think. The managers are always interested to know about mistakes.I've seen a couple of the failures shown above. Never seen a flipped chip. Have seen poor soldering, or missing paste. Usually they spot these and do rework. Most of the faults I've seen are either my fault (a poor footprint, in turn because the drawing is poor or I missed something), or avoidable with my help (e.g., ensuring adequate soldermask web width between pads, to prevent shorts on paste and wave steps -- closely spaced, untented vias is one I didn't expect to see, but it seems to happen regularly on lead-free wave).I've also seen variable results, like the mfg cell nearby usually does nice work, while the one in the next state sometimes makes errors. So there's probably some variation in local culture, as well as employee performance. Which is probably about as good as you can expect.Tim

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 07:58:44 am
content: Duh, speak of the old devil Murphy. Got this from a customer just this morning. No idea how we got this through but of course we are rushing a replacement. Luckily this happened once for 70k+ devices.It is impossible to do extensive functional test on each and every board, essentially double-checking what assembly house should have done. If it's assembled properly itwillwork fine. This is why having a trustworthy assembly partner is critical for us.Leo

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:11:58 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 17, 2017, 07:58:44 amYou can see how that might pass AOI but definitely a test-coverage issue if it gets out the door

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:17:52 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 17, 2017, 08:11:58 amPeople who assembled this showed me how their AOI system works. It did stop and alerted operator if it could not correlate package markings with the reference.I assume that either operator just cancelled and let it through or AOI was simply not done.Leo

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:20:47 am
content: Quote from: Yellofriend on October 17, 2017, 02:20:17 amYou'd think that a CEM is in a good position to provide value by combining orders, getting qty discounts etc. but IME it doesn't tend to work out in practice, at least for the low volumes I typically do.They basically pass on their cost plus what they charge for procurement, and have little incentive to find better prices as you're probably already committed to them. They also like to combine all costs so it's hard for you to tell what part of the cost is parts, assembly and setup.Same situation for things like stencils - they just buy teh same large stencils form the place they've used for years and pass on the cost, despite the the fact that you can get them for a fraction of the cost from China, or for a small run, tape up a much smaller stencil into their frame.I've yet to meet a CEM that shows any passion or enthusiasm for what they do, or any significant amount of imagination.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:27:45 am
content: Quote from: fcb on October 16, 2017, 05:14:08 pmOr that they reworked it

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:35:02 am
content: This things happen. The important is to have IPC-610 at hand to send back feedback, or pas this info for purchasing, so they can haggle.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:35:09 am
content: Quote from: CJay on October 17, 2017, 08:27:45 amIf it was a mixed TH/SMD board it would be reasonable to AOI before flowsoldering the TH parts

author: mc172
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 09:49:53 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 17, 2017, 08:20:47 amExactly. Those that I've come across have just ended up in that field and hopelessly bumble around, somehow delivering product. A few I've come across have grand ideas about designing their own product but really have no idea about the work involved.These places also tend to be "run" by a lot of managers and the like, whereas there are really only one or two really good people ensuring that the place runs.Liaising with them is hard work as the people you're put into contact with don't have a clue.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 10:08:56 am
content: Quote from: mc172 on October 17, 2017, 09:49:53 amLack of communication about their process is also a big issue - I think they regard it as a trade secret.For example I always include fids in my pick/place data but I know at least one -place was still programming them manually from a sample board.QuoteAnd the only people/person who knows anything about electronics are in the test dept.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 11:57:21 am
content: One more from today.This is from the company that was (and still is) my favourite. Not because it's the best but because the others are worse.Leo

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:09:28 pm
content: Ugh been wanting to get this off my chest for years ... seems like the right place!I fell out of university into a dying industry in the UK so I did some time on a soldering line. I think I lasted a week before I was promoted to rework only because I wasn't a dumbass and the rework guys lasted about a month before they had a mental breakdown.This was mid-1990s and they did everything in house because it was defence sector. The whole line was producing stacks of legacy TH replacement boards that were designed in the 1970's for a refurbishment programme. The people on the line had been there doing that line for 15+ years. All manual insertion and manual soldering. All old ladies chatting as they were working.And you know what? Someone in inventory accidentally swapped a bin full of diodes and resistors around due to a "heavy pub lunch". They stuffed and soldered 80 boards before the QA guys noticed. They put the resistors in the diode holes and the diodes in the resistor holes. Orientation of diodes? Who cares, just stuff them in. What could possibly go wrong. Part 1 comes from bin 1 and goes in that hole. Part 2 comes from bin 2 and goes in that hole. Turns out that if you put them in the bin the wrong way round, all the diodes would have been soldered in the wrong way around. Silk screen? Nah that's for the design engineers to worry about.So my job was to rework the fuck ups for about a month when they had come back from QA. One day I just flipped my shit like happy noodle boy . Then I, as many before me had done, got reassigned to a different department which was just as bad.GRADE F TO GRADE E STAFF PROMOTION ACHIEVED!

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:21:38 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 17, 2017, 10:08:56 am^ This!QuoteI actually had one assembler specifically tell me not to bother providing the Pick and Place files (for about 10 designs being run at once, all in qty of about 50-100). Surprisingly these guys did one of the best jobs of all the companies I've dealt with. They've since closed down though

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:23:41 pm
content: The moral of the story is the Human Element is where the highest quality standards must exist in the overall system.

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:29:59 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 17, 2017, 12:09:28 pmWow, just WoW!

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:49:13 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 17, 2017, 12:09:28 pmI've worked in a PCBA factory for internship, back in the day.It was Japanese run.It was run by the Japanese. (this is more english, right?) They had rigorous QC requirements for component orientation. And leaflets, telling the workers:1) If a cap is placed backwards, it blows up.2) If it blows up only later, we need to recall the boards3) If we need to recall, we loose a bunch of money, and we have to close down4) And YOU WILL LOSE YOUR JOB, and everyone working with you will loose your jobEngineers were sometimes running around with stopwatches, measuring how much time each assembly steps took. Not to grade workers but to optimize the assembly process for higher throughput. Didn't matter, it still scared them. Workers were told, that if we "have to let them go", there is a dozen other to take their places. It was actually true."Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 12:56:54 pm
content: If only that place was Japanese run. I'd have loved that. That's how I run my software team.That lot on that line ended up working in McDonalds when Six Sigma came in. Mainly because they had to fire them to pay for the consultants. You couldn't hire anyone now to do that in that locality.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:20:21 pm
content: Dead bugs happen, especially on low pin count SOIC. Good (semi-competent) manufacturers usually catch those errors in production, mainly because the cost of repair rises logarithmically with each step of the process.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:42:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 17, 2017, 12:09:28 pmWas this M_____ in West London? Sounds like them.

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:49:54 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on October 17, 2017, 03:29:42 amSure! If you work with me I only buy from Digikey etc. I do lots of assembly in China. Would I let the factory buy parts - no way!BTW, for the testing, the bad thing was that the fake ICs had full function, we we tested them 'good'. The client made an extended function test -20°C to +70°C for 24 hours - that's where 90% failed.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 01:54:44 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 17, 2017, 01:42:10 pmNo not them actually. I don't wish to name the company in question as they are still active and all hail corporate now. But they're Essex side of London in the badlands.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:31:59 pm
content: Quote from: Gribo on October 17, 2017, 01:20:21 pmSurely you meant to say exponentially?Leo

author: 8086
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:32:22 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 17, 2017, 01:54:44 pmDoes the name start with a "T"?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 02:58:01 pm
content: Nope

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:05:13 pm
content: What keeps upside down packages from falling off the board? Is there an adhesive?

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 03:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: Nusa on October 17, 2017, 03:05:13 pmFlux seeps underneath and solidifies after cooling down.Leo

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 04:44:20 pm
content: Quote from: 8086 on October 17, 2017, 02:32:22 pm"D" ?

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 06:53:16 pm
content: Yes, I did. Meh. It always gets more expansive, faster than you can blink.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:15:26 pm
content: Well, classic tombstone. Not real common with modern processes, but it can happen. It might actually be an undetected mis-pick on the P&P machine. If the part drags on the side of the component tape, it can tumble into this position and show enough vacuum that the machine doesn't reject it.Jon

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 08:41:39 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on October 17, 2017, 08:15:26 pmIt is not tombstoning at all. Component was placed between 2 pads vertically and produced dead short after reflowing. Tombstoning is when part is soldered on one side and lifted on another.

author: M4trix
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2017, 09:44:12 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 17, 2017, 11:57:21 amHmm, that's actually a brilliant solution when you don't have jumpers, zero ohm resistors ! Just flip the cap vertically !

author: Yellofriend
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2017, 02:59:56 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on October 17, 2017, 12:09:28 pmThat's what we did when I worked in an assembly factory in China a long while ago. All manual, each person maybe 3-5 parts. Only difference, our ladies were young. Zero problems with missing parts or polarity. The method can work, but nowadays too expensive I guess.

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 08:35:07 am
content: Quote from: Yellofriend on October 18, 2017, 02:59:56 amAgree, the salary in China doubled, or even Tripled in the past 10 years. manually soldering is expensive and only suitable for the prototyping 1~5 pcs production.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 11:48:03 am
content: I'd add rework or repair of high-value products.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2017, 03:15:58 pm
content: Partially my own fault but:I once made a small mod to a design while on holliday in France. Send out Gerbers without checking (only a small change, just this once it will be fine!). The outjob was bad and two layer were 'blank'. The assembly house produced it and everything was shorted together as every via would be connected to two solid sheets of copper on the mid layers.Still can't believe nobody at either the assembly house or board house caught it.

author: JuKu
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 29, 2017, 02:45:13 pm
content: My favorite assembly mishap:

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2017, 10:57:02 am
content: Some time ago, I had this oneInappropriate manual handling of the boards after reflow

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 08:22:26 am
content: Few more from today.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 08:29:29 am
content: That first one looks like someone got fed up with it and threw some parts in the general direction of the board.

author: l0wside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 01:45:01 pm
content: No pictures, but still my very first assembly run (mid-size PCBA company in southern Germany) cost me a bunch of nerves:I had sent them an extra picture of the board, showing polarity or pin 1 for each component. Result: out of 100 parts, 100 had the electrolytic caps the wrong way round. They fixed it manually at their cost, but I still lost at least two weeks.The design has a tactile switch. Roughly half of the switches did not work. Turns out they washed the PCBs after assembly (which is not uncommon). Washed-out flux got into the switches and blocked them mechanically. The datasheet states clearly "Washing: Not possible". They fixed it manually at their cost...From previous tasks, I am used to using no-clean flux. I have a sensor on the board which has a protective cap...that was washed off in the process. Some covers were still on, some dangling around, most had been washed off. QC seems not to have cared. To be honest, it was at least partly my fault - I had simply not considered washing.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 03:54:29 pm
content: They can't possibly have gone through AOI or any form of inspection.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2017, 04:52:41 pm
content: Quote from: l0wside on December 08, 2017, 01:45:01 pmIt would be more disturbing if only 63 (or 17 or whatever) were the wrong way 'round!

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2017, 05:10:22 pm
content: My own oopsie that happened this weekendDecided not to fix as it's a 0201 cap which is too close to the DDR3L IC so that I couldn't get in there with an iron without risking damaging the IC. The module works at full speed just fine even without one cap

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 08:52:10 am
content: Quote from: asmi on December 12, 2017, 05:10:22 pm0201 is indeed risky for some soldering factories, avoid to use 0201 package unless you are design PC/phone....

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 09:09:46 am
content: Quote from: l0wside on December 08, 2017, 01:45:01 pmthis kind of problem occurs some times, when i make the PCBA, my vendor makerfabs will make a sample and take detailded picture for me for checking. although very rare i found mistakes, it make me ease...Quote from: l0wside on December 08, 2017, 01:45:01 pmit needs experience for the vendor,almost impossible for the soldering man to check the datasheet, but it is really very basic knowledge that most of switches can not be washed by fluxQuote from: l0wside on December 08, 2017, 01:45:01 pmmost of factory use the soldering that need to be washed after the soldering, or the PCBA would be looks urgly- as they may think so normally they will wash after the THT soldering. most sensor for the Environment can not be washed ... that you should remind them, unless your soldering vendor themselves is electronic engineers and know the notes. i suggest you my long-term PCBA vendor Makerfabs, really help me a lot in the DFM and solves my problems in their side.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2017, 04:55:23 pm
content: @zeqing Almost every other post of yours you mention the name of your "vendor". Please stop with the shilling!

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 01:57:23 am
content: @kean here's not your personal back garden and stop shouting to others with your uncivilized manner.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 02:25:52 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 01:57:23 amNo, it's you who treats this forum as a personal spam garden. Frankly, after reading your posts, I have strong suspicion that you could be makerfabs marketing shill and should be banned if that turns out to be true.Edit: Actuallyyou are a shilland admitted it in one of your posts and just got reported.Quote from: zeqing on November 20, 2017, 10:20:45 am

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 02:50:46 am
content: yes, i have been there for half an year and still now we have had good cooperation on my PCBA and good relationship personally, and i try to help them but without bribery. i do not think the word "shill " impartial for me. strong attitude not works but report me as spam, unless your words nonsense.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 02:54:14 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 02:50:46 amKeep lying. Look your quote in my previous post from which is obvious you worked there at for at least last 3 years. You are shill because you said you were ordering from them while actually are working there.

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:06:17 am
content: you confused and Biased. as i know, the makerfabs only created for about 1 year ago(check their site with alexa!), how could i work there 3 years ago.."your name really special that i still remember you after 3 years..."that is to say many years ago when i was in another company . do you want me open my resume for you?

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:11:37 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 03:06:17 amQuoteAnd I also should believe you are from Germany. It could be different Chinese company back then, but it doesn't matter. The fact is you claimed yourself in that post you are running this business. While in the rest of your posts you claimed you buy things at makerfabs.

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:17:36 am
content: maybe you should firstly answer my questions. have you checked the site registration date, as you believe i have been there for 3 years.i have answer your questions with "left".

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:21:10 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 03:17:36 amI checked, 2016. But it does not change the fact you wrote yourself that you are running makerfabs.

author: zeqing
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:24:37 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 16, 2017, 03:21:10 amOK, so you have admired your mistakes? how would i explain the "left"?please check my above posts.this is "Manufacturing & Assembly" and the post for "assembly mishaps", i think this is a good place to share my experience, and caught as a "shill"

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 06:47:43 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 01:57:23 amHahaha! That's hilarious! I didn't shout nor was I uncivilised.You have now been reported to the moderators. I hadn't done that before, I just stated facts and asked you to stop misrepresenting your "vendor".

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 06:49:35 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 03:17:36 amI suggest you stop here, I have had a look at your post history and issued you a warning. Your activity is very suspicious. Any further plugs for Makerfabs will incur a ban on your account.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 06:58:50 am
content: Shill confirmed:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/which-stores-do-you-guys-usually-purchase-from/msg1284806/#msg1284806Quoteamong many other posts about makerfab.He's now banned. We get countless PCB house shill accounts and spam on the forum, it's almost plague proportions.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 07:11:04 am
content: Quote from: zeqing on December 16, 2017, 03:24:37 amYes, and some of your posts had some good info - but you continually went on about your "vendor".I would not have cared one bit if you mentioned makerfab in every post if properly disclosed (others might have...).I didn't specifically want you banned, you brought that upon yourself.

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 07:11:54 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on December 16, 2017, 06:58:50 amGood call, I didn't have time to read through his posts in detail, was just going to watch his reaction and see.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 11:35:57 am
content: Quote from: Kean on December 16, 2017, 07:11:04 amI wouldn't mind this myself. Actually I would not mind if he admitted he's from makerfabs and stopped pretending to be their customer. What pissed me the most is attitude when presented with evidence.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 12:05:14 pm
content: Not sure if anybody will bother to reply here after above "mishaps", but I will tryMy questions are really simple:Who is paying bills for these mishaps and what usually assembler contract says about that?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 12:19:34 pm
content: Yes, sorry for the diversion. I was finding this topic really interesting.I'd guess the cost of these mistakes will depend on the contract with the assembler. But I guess even if you're not paying for fully tested PCBA, they still have to rectify/rework these kinds of glaring errors.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 12:24:50 pm
content: Here is a couple of contributions...1. A capacitor that was poorly placed, but strangely didn't tombstone2. A connector that must have been hand placed, as it was the wrong pin count and horizontal instead of vertical. I think they picked up a spare connector from the PnP reject box, but didn't verify it was the right one

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 02:09:51 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on December 16, 2017, 12:24:50 pmActually most likely it was placed completely fine. SMT pad layout with a huge gap between pads is just asking for such trouble to happen during reflow. Doing so is certainly against recommended pad layouts.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 02:47:51 pm
content: Yes, you could be partly right there. In this case I didn't design the board nor the footprints. I just took the project over, made some minor changes on various boards, and had a couple of batches made up for the client. I've since designed a lot of new add-on boards for the client with my own footprints... and written a lot of new firmware & apps for them. That said, that particular 0805 footprint has been used on a bunch of designs without further issues. I believe the footprint may also in use at a large UAV company (unrelated to my clients products).

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 03:57:57 pm
content: Had an easy one on the Kicad forum I reported. He used his real name and he was listed on their marketing page. Some are just too easy. As someone else mentioned, if they were contributing AND transparent I wouldn't have a problem with them if their shilling was at least helpful to the current situation.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2017, 05:10:46 pm
content: I love the upside down IC.I worked for a ISO9000 certified company for a few years. It was mostly BS, we had a bunch of processes to follow and had to read all these process control documents and sign off that we had read them. There was no assurance at all that the process was good or made any sense, just that it was documented and followed. I had to read and sign off on a bunch of process documents that had no relation whatsoever to the job I performed. One I recall involved dealing with politicians and foreign diplomats and what actions could constitute bribery. As if any of the engineers were ever in a position to negotiate with foreign diplomats and politicians.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:08:06 am
content: I would say the capacitor was placed poorly, with most of it being on the one pad, if placed slightly left on the paste it would have soldered fine.The connector I can believe, as likely they used only the central pins from the battery, ignoring the rest, so having no pads on the one would not be an issue as it likely was an unused internal cell temperature sensor.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:17:18 am
content: Many PCBA factories don't use AOI for small volumes. It requires a lot of work to program. Common faults may be programmed if there are more production runs.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 10:21:25 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 17, 2017, 10:08:06 amThe board with the battery connector is for a submersible datalogger. It should have a 6 pin vertical connector for the battery (including thermistor as you surmised). The 7 pin right angle connector was used on a completely different set of boards (submersible sensors) produced at the same time. I had to swap the connector to make it usable. Thankfully one was like this in the batch.Quote from: plazma on December 17, 2017, 10:17:18 amFor sure! But they always make a point of telling you they have the capability even if they don't plan to use it on your job.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 11:32:43 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on December 17, 2017, 10:08:06 amThis is not how tombstoning works, it does not require inaccurate placement. In this case because pads are very large with a very high distance between them, it was pulled horizontally with a terminal to the center of the pad instead of just lifted vertically and hanging above the pad like here:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 12:08:00 pm
content: I had one of those the other day on a cheap Chinese switcher module. It was on the input side of the unit so it still worked reasonably well, enough to pass QA

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 12:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 16, 2017, 05:10:46 pmISO9000 is primarly about a quality control system being in place, not about actual quality being the result of it. That's the mistake many people make.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2017, 09:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on December 16, 2017, 12:05:14 pmUsually if you can prove CM fault with a local CM, they will make good at their own expense. This is less likely to happen with a cut-price overseas CM.My most recent board run was a multi board (8 design) prototype job (X10) done with an overseas CM, selected for speed purposes more than anything else. We paid for them to buy Digi-Key and mouser to my BOM, but when boards arrived, I had one case of a tantalum cap being the wrong voltage... And so obviously not what I listed in the BOM... So I pulled and replaced those parts myself... Noting that while the boards all basically work we have no guarantee on the correctness of any part on them... They worked fine as prototype, but that issue just killed them for any future production build of these PCBAs..

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 08:08:56 am
content: Quote from: wraper on December 17, 2017, 11:32:43 amThe one in that image is rather nasty. That's one that AOI and even XRay might not pick up!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 01:04:14 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on December 16, 2017, 05:10:46 pmYup, that's my experience too, we had BS5750 and later ISO accreditation, it's all about the documentation, if you state you take each board and pray over it while anointing it with the grated peel of 1000 lemons they will approve your process but woe betide you if you only grate the peel from 999 lemons and someone spots your non compliance.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 02:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on December 18, 2017, 01:30:08 pmIt might be shit, but at least you know you're getting shit every time!

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2017, 10:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 18, 2017, 02:28:52 pmQuality!!!

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:34:01 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 18, 2017, 02:28:52 pmHaving the flow of reliable shit has nothing to do with quality, that shit is needed to keep our profit margins high.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2017, 06:44:19 pm
content: That Dilbert cartoon is hilarious, that mirrors my experience almost exactly.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 10:24:00 am
content: Few more bingos from Birmingham.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 11:30:53 am
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on December 27, 2017, 10:24:00 amI wonder how did they get it. They would need to either put those through reflow process with connectors inserted or stop within wave soldering machine for prolonged time. Solder joints on connector pins don't look nice as well, look like blobs of solder.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 12:07:16 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on October 13, 2017, 08:15:19 pmAll that says is they should be offering the same defect rate consistently to all their customers.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:52:42 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on December 27, 2017, 10:24:00 amAren't those just the wrong USB connectors? Maybe these simply weren't connectors intended for reflow. The pin headers look fine.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 01:58:24 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on December 27, 2017, 01:52:42 pmWhy would they need to be intended for reflow?

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:00:57 pm
content: a recent adventure with wave soldering: in this board a big automotive connector is wave soldered.i am programming and testing the latest batch, one board won't program.. strange. then i see the smoke.It turns out that the external 5V line is shorted to ground, the smoke came from a series resistor so the current wasn't high enough to trigger OCP but high enough to excheed the power rating and burn the resistor.a good half hour spent inspecting the board and then i see it, a splash of solder on the inside of the connectorand the only short was between +5V and GND, of course.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:05:19 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 27, 2017, 01:58:24 pmThings intended for reflow need to be built to tolerate the temperatures involved in reflow. Some things designed for reflow with leaded solder can't take the higher temperatures involved in lead free reflow.Many through hole connectors can't tolerate reflow, as they were designed for wave soldering. Wave soldering keeps a lot of the heat away from the side of the board with the plastic parts.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:11:12 pm
content: coppice, PCBs that have both type of components are made in two stages.These are PTH connectors. They are not intended for reflow.Few other jobbies from the same gentlemen. Unfortunately, we figured them out too late to stop the destruction.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:32:40 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on December 27, 2017, 02:05:19 pmTrough hole parts = not intended for reflow. Sometimes reflow can be done to avoid additional production stage but this is a special case when components need verification they can withstand it, not how things are done normally. Also there is so much solder on the solder joints it's basically impossible that was reflow soldered. Not enough solder to fill the hole is actually a big problem if you reflow solder TH components.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2017, 02:38:40 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 27, 2017, 02:32:40 pmThat's not strictly true. Reflow is not the ideal (or cheapest) way to solder through hole parts. However, many through hole connectors and heavy inductors are designed to tolerate the temperatures involved in reflow, so the board can be stuffed in one go, and all the parts will be safe during the reflow step(s).

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 11:34:37 am
content: I get that they might have used the wrong wave solder settings (speed), or that the USB sockets chosen/substituted aren't upto it and that the wave can easily move those long cage-clamps (or they weren't seated correctly etc..).What I can't get my head round is that they still sent them out - their QC must be non-existent.

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 11:44:34 am
content: every package from these guys must have you jumping up and down with excited anticipation at what they have stuffed up this time!

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2017, 02:39:06 pm
content: QuoteMaybe it was approved by blind hamsters?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2017, 09:58:08 am
content: Quote from: Gribo on December 28, 2017, 02:39:06 pmOi! Stop talking about my critters.Kidding. Mine's a rather pudgy lab cat (originally named Oliver after Oliver Twist, but has since been properly renamed Porkins).

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 09:32:11 am
content: A rather smallish mishap:

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 09:36:22 am
content: How the hell did that happen

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 09:44:11 am
content: I'm more impressed that the connectors look so unaffected, the USB socket has had so much solder pour in that its leaking out the back corner yet the ethernet and general connector are un-melted to my eyes.

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 09:58:49 am
content: Quote from: Rerouter on December 17, 2018, 09:44:11 amIt's difficult to see on that photo, the solder has found its way in between the USB and eth socket, not through them. I've heard someone mumbling about the hand operated mini wave soldering machine ...

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 09:59:03 am
content: Went Under the wave, not on the top of it.......

author: tristan PCB
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 11:20:47 am
content: I really “admire” the professional manufacturing level

author: hermit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 01:07:14 pm
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on December 17, 2018, 09:58:49 amHand operated mini tsunami soldering machine.....

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 01:10:22 pm
content: Someone put a drunk T1000 in it

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 03:01:54 pm
content: Quote from: capt bullshot on December 17, 2018, 09:32:11 amPfft, bit of solderwick and a steady hand, she'll be right...

author: julianhigginson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 17, 2018, 08:16:02 pm
content: How on earth did that get packed and sent?

author: capt bullshot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 07:55:27 am
content: Quote from: julianhigginson on December 17, 2018, 08:16:02 pmThis thing never left the shop and was properly scrapped before I could take the photo.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 18, 2018, 08:28:25 am
content: Flooding ...depends on the machine and or pallet.Somtimes the machine board sensor will mistime and the wave will come on too early.Sometimes if the board is not clipped into a carrier pallet solder may flood the board through the gap.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2018, 09:43:05 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on December 26, 2018, 02:56:48 amjust hold it at the right angle and blow torch it

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2019, 08:09:58 am
content: Top board was not communicating with bottom board

author: ddavidebor
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2019, 12:48:30 pm
content: It's only me who never had this sort of issues?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2019, 01:38:00 pm
content: If the production doesn't happen in your own facility, there really isn't much reason for you to get to see it. Accidents/Failures will happen on even the best of production lines, particularly in smaller volumes where there isn't the budget to justify a jig/pallet which could/should have prevented some of the flooding examples shown.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2019, 09:29:32 am
content: Exactly. we get to see something that has slipped through QC at the production facility, because the vision system (or the qc employee) wouldn't be able to recognize the failure.Every time we catch something the production facility asks for a report so that they can improve the process

author: jonroger
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2019, 04:13:44 pm
content: > A very good way to test for fake ICs is X-ray.Perhaps publishing a X-ray fingerprint for parts will become standard. Similar to signed binaries for software.

author: Leo Bodnar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 09:40:25 pm
content: Today we have rescued our £££ assembly kit from a UK assembly house that went into administration few days ago.I think we were hours away from never seeing it again.Their last batch has tonnes of problems but we are happy we at least got non-working boards back and the rest of the kit.Plumbing new lows.Leo

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 09:48:07 pm
content: Quote from: Leo Bodnar on November 28, 2019, 09:40:25 pmWho, out of curiosity ? (I believe administration is on public record) - PM if you prefer.Many years ago I bought a load of stuff from a tender sale of an assembly house - at the viewing there were a number of un-lotted boxes which they told me were subject to retention of title, and were clearly customer kits, assemblies and test jigs, but on the day of collection the auctioneer company people didn't give a toss and were happy to let it all go to anyone to avoid having to haul it into the skip.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2019, 10:01:42 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 28, 2019, 09:48:07 pmYes, very much so. As well as there being court records (High Court) of administrators appointed, a notice of the appointment is posted in the London Gazette.