Is all DMM probes about to be of remarkable bad quality? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: FriedMule
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 am
content: Probemaster, Fluke, agilent and other brand name probes, has always been some of the best, if you wanted a probe in real quality, but I have heard some disturbing things about them in the later years.Fluke do now send cheap plastic probes with even the 87V, Probemasters has several times lost their gold plating and Agilent should have started making probes where the "tip-protection" is not removable.Is all this true, where / what should I look for if I want the good old quality?

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:09:54 am
content: Fluke do sell good quality probes but you have to buy them separately. They don't come with the meter.

author: daisizhou
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:24:51 am
content: I think the Fluke TL75 test pen is good, silicone material

author: LaurentR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:00:50 pm
content: The Fluke TL71 (all silicone) is probably the standard "high quality" probe most people use. I should add that there are plenty of reports of failures of these probes, so going back to your point...In the smaller size, the TL910 "sex on a stick" is a high quality small probe.Bot of these are made by Pomona (a Fluke subsidiary) and have (usually cheaper) Pomona equivalent. The TL71 in particular is subject to low-quality copies.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 05:11:48 pm
content: I have noticed when searching eBay for "Pomona" that many hits are for "compatible with Pomona" or "equivalent to Pomona", socaveat emptor.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 07:39:54 pm
content: Quote from: FriedMule on March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 am”Disturbing”? That’s rather melodramatic! Multimeter probes really shouldn’t be causing you emotional distress!Quote from: FriedMule on March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 amDepends on what 87V kit you buy, as well as the country you buy it in. Some include TL75 (the ones you’re dismissing as cheap plastic; this isn’t new by the way), some include TL175E (silicone with retractable sheaths, plus removable lantern tips), some include entire probe sets with silicone leads, probes (with permanent sheaths) and clips.In Europe, the standard 87V includes the TL175E probes.With that said, I don’t think Fluke probes have ever been the gold standard of quality. They’re very good, but not the best. Probe Master and Stäubli are definitely better IMHO.Quote from: FriedMule on March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 amCertainly not a widespread problem, since I’ve never even heard reports of this. Plus they have lifetime warranties… These are my vote.Quote from: FriedMule on March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 am1. Agilent? You know they became Keysight 8 years ago, right?2. ”Should have”? (Suggesting they’renotdoing something they’re supposed to do.) Keysight (and Agilent before them) makes these already, and they’re what are included with theirhandheldmeters. Unsheathed probe tips are no longer allowed under the CAT III and CAT IV multimeter safety categories (as in, unsheathed tips mean the category is voided and is only compliant to CAT II), so they include sheathed ones. My Keysight handheld meter came with sheathed Agilent-branded probes.Unsheathed probes are still included with bench meters, and of course you’re free to buy whichever kind you want as accessories. (ALL of Keysight’s current DMM probe sets includebothkinds of probes. The basic set is U1169A. U1168A has both probe types, plus fine probes, plus alligator clips, plus SMD grabbers, plus a single mini-grabber. U1168B is the same, but with two mini-grabbers.) Sounds to me like you’re being too lazy to actually look at their website and see the models they offer.Besides Fluke/Pomona, Probe Master, and Keysight, Hirschmann and Stäubli both makeexcellentprobes at reasonable prices.Quote from: daisizhou on March 10, 2022, 11:24:51 amIncorrect, TL75 is PVC insulated. Maybe you’re thinking of the TL71 LaurentR mentions above.

author: nightfire
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 10:18:33 pm
content: I second the tip for Stäubli (ex-Multicontact) - the offer real good quality, and if you know where to buy you can get decent prices for the stuff.Sometimes some of the stuff appears even on ebay in new condition, might save you some money on shipping.I also like the dolphin clips from them, they are way better than the standard alligator clips everyone usually uses...

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2022, 11:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: FriedMule on March 10, 2022, 10:46:08 amI wouldn't worry about any of those things.Fluke regards test leads as a consumable item. Under heavy use in the field, I agree with them. Flukes lesser-cost PVC leads are maybe not as nice as silicone, but I've never seen any that I'd call junk or that bothered me to use.Probemaster will replace your products if you aren't satisfied, even if you wear the gold plating off. Their standard 8000-series lead tips are gold-plated stainless steel, so they won't stop working even if you do wear the gold off. In any case, they have doubled the thickness of their gold plating sometime in the past few years, so that is even less likely now.Tip protection is apparently required to meet certain safety requirements. I've always thought that having those removable part-covers was just asking for them to fall off and get lost, leading to the user going at it without the tips anyway. Fluke has their Twist-Guard leads, which are OK if you use them properly, but permanent covers is probably the safest, foolproof way of doing it. I personally would prefer a permanent, thin covering ala heatshrink as I've had a few probing accidents with regular tips before I bought some nice accessories.

author: Per Hansson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 04:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: LaurentR on March 10, 2022, 05:00:50 pmI disagree on this point, I own these probes and while they have not failed the tip is just held in by friction and mine just fall out...Keysight 34133A are a million times better, the tip is spring loaded so it has an extreme "sex on a stick" feel to it!They are cheaper than the Fluke probes too!

author: RoadRunner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 04:23:02 pm
content: Quote from: Per Hansson on March 11, 2022, 04:02:41 pmTL910 is piece of shit , It is basically a Pomona 634x . Just heap of garbage. I had 4 Pair of them. All them failed one failed after it lose friction and could not hold probe. Another onces just hold the sprint tips but does not make electrical contact. These probes looks good. Feels good. But just a garbage. These would regularly make bad contact and you will wonder if its you or your circuit.Now i make my precision probes for low voltage and space constrained places. I made them with copper tubes and really top quality spring loaded pins. May be I can share photos if any one interested.Regards

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 06:33:43 pm
content: Quote from: Per Hansson on March 11, 2022, 04:02:41 pmNow I want a set of Keysight 34133A.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:04:30 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 11, 2022, 06:33:43 pmBoth TL910 and Keysight 34133A as same Pomona 634x Series and all 3 of them a piece of crap.You can order them with solid needle tip, or with pogo (spring loaded) tips. Tips are changeable.Handles are very small, cable is too thin, and behaves like wet noodle always getting in a way.They have contact problems inside handles and can have several ohms of resistance...I bought Probemasters 8152 with needle tips (also pogo) and since then, newer used Pomonas.I also once had an expensive Fluke modular probe set. Probes and accessories were good (I still have stainless tip sharp probes and use them, weapons grade stuff) but cables were total crap. Kept having problems with them. Then I realized I could disassemble the bananas and realized cables were soldered to bananas with water based flux that ate the copper inside. They worked on contact through green copper salt...It also penetrated good 50 millimeters into cable. Cable was good quality otherwise, silicone and thick with very fine multistrands of copper.I don't take big names for granted anymore.Brymen probes are best buy in the world. Then Probemaster..Also I don't expect them to last forever. 5 pairs of Brymen probes will outperform any Fluke set in a long run..

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:08:27 pm
content: Quote from: RoadRunner on March 11, 2022, 04:23:02 pmWould be interested in what you came up with.Pomona 634x, the rigid tip is pretty good for stabbing yourself. Then I got the pogo-pin ones but the probe sleeve is aluminum and high ohms, it's a cheap bad idea, they fall out all the time.Aliexpress multimeter probesrace-to-the-bottom $3 and you have to wonder why the x10 markup on good quality probes? They have all the plastic and silicone, just nothing for copper or gold.Oh and the big typo is "20A" should read "20AWG"

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:47:10 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2022, 08:04:30 pmNow I don't want a set of Keysight 34133A.

author: RoadRunner
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 08:56:21 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on March 11, 2022, 08:08:27 pmFirst attached image shows what i made with Phomona probe. Once it become unusable i cut on the end and soldered 3mm copper tube with spring loaded gold plated point. Everything is fixed.Second two image shows my all self made solution. I used stäubli 4mm Banana Connector they have really smooth insertion while maintaining absolute good contact. 18 AWG silicone wire (Same as Phomona), on other end same 3mm copper tube directly soldered to spring loaded sharp needle probe. I had put enough good quality(for more rubber like feel) heat shrink on both end.Probe are intentionally really thin and really short to be able to reach really tiny place and easy hand placement. I had previously used Hirschmann probe with similar solution but there wire was not that good quality , Banana was also poor and Spring loaded side does not had gold plating and also has too many contact points to give more contact resistance. but i really liked its thin and short form factor. That is how I ended up making my. Image also shows 3mm Copper tube.Before every one go crazy over CAT rating, I hardly deal with stuff over few volts.

author: BILLPOD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 09:11:52 pm
content: I can't believe no one has mentioned Brymen probes. Ever since I purchased my Brymen 869S I've fallen in love with their probes. Since then I've equipped all my 'better' meters with them. Silkiest silicone and nicest removable lantern tips on the market. And at a reasonable price at TME.

author: gabeeg
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 09:45:38 pm
content: +1 on the Brymen Silicone probes, they are very good. I use them and ProbeMasters exclusively on my DMMs (no matter the brand). I had not heard about gold flaking and quality issues with the ProbeMasters...is this a very recent phenomena? Has anybody experienced this first hand? My ProbeMasters are all 2-4 years old and have had no issues.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 10:03:26 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on March 11, 2022, 09:48:41 pmTake a look how cables drop.. they are TOO soft.. If you are measuring something in the device on the far side, they drop into device and get caught on to components on a board.. Probemaster cables are also very soft but not so much they get in a way...

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 11, 2022, 11:55:00 pm
content: The "wet noodle" complaint about the small pomonas/rebrands is somewhat subjective, e.g. I don't find that aspect a big issue, and I like the size etc.What is objectively shit about them is the poor design which leads to them going high-resistance - they all reliably do it.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 02:46:38 am
content: Quote from: RoadRunner on March 11, 2022, 08:56:21 pmI've also used a pen for the handle, retractable pens pull in a needle point which is good for protecting them. I'm using sewing needles and solder to them, and glue that inside an old pen ink cartridge.Too bad multimeter probes have no innovation, for years now.Quote from: BILLPOD on March 11, 2022, 09:11:52 pmI don't think I can buy Brymen probes in Canada

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 07:01:53 am
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2022, 10:03:26 pmHorses for courses.Much modern PCB work is much nicer with smaller and flexible probes......just like we like for scope probes rather than some clunky thing like from last century.Power PCB's sure, we want additional isolation/protection for DMM and scope probes but not so much for modern stuff as it's digital and operating at far lower voltages than in PCB's of yesteryear.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2022, 08:07:10 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 12, 2022, 07:01:53 amI've already shown pictures before.I'm not talking about steel tip Probemaster in normal size. I'm talking about ones with thin tip and needle pogo pins..Pomona and Probemaster have same size on the side where you poke at the board.Probemasters are actually thinner in a profile right at the tip.The holding side is beefier so more comfortable to hold.And components do shrink but my hands don't.Pomona feel likeholding toothpicks..Best explanation to them is that it feels like writing with a very short wooden graphite pencil. Where you hold them with only tips of the fingers..I wish they were a bit longer so they could be comfortably held like a normal pencil.Full disclosure, I am almost 2 m tall and while I don't have meaty, sausage fingers, my hands are big...I also find some JBC microsoldering handles too small to comfortably hold...Anything that has handle shorter than your index finger is too small.Quote from: Hydron on March 11, 2022, 11:55:00 pmAbsolutely, any sentence "..they feel like.." is by definition objective. But I wasn't making comments based on a photo, I have them both and that is my real life experience when working with them.

author: Per Hansson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 13, 2022, 03:56:26 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on March 11, 2022, 08:04:30 pmThanks I didn't know this.I based the information about the Keysight 34133A probes off what a friend told me.If they really are the same then I guess it just comes down to luck of the draw then.He has had them for a few years and they have not failed.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2022, 04:48:03 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on March 11, 2022, 06:33:43 pmHuh,they're US$43, cheaper than the Fluke ($87), thought Fluke leads come with a few extra probe tips and nothing on the Keysight page indicates spares. That said, I have owned two sets of the Fluke leads, one at the office, one at home, and I've never had a tip fail or need replacement. The office set is something like 15 years old now.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2022, 05:28:48 pm
content: Or forget about those, regardless of what name is on them, and get the Probe Master 8100 series instead:https://probemaster.com/spring-loaded-micro-tip-test-lead-kit/

author: Scherms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 12:26:18 am
content: I've had these TP175 on my 88v for 2 years without issue! And they came with the meter...:-+e

author: Neomys Sapiens
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 02:30:37 am
content: Quote from: RoadRunner on March 11, 2022, 04:23:02 pmSee also here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/useful-adaptor-techniques/msg1223935/#msg1223935