Looking to buy a hot air soldering/dessoldering gun - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 10:15:52 am
content: Hello.I need to buy a basic hot air soldering gun or station, depending on the prices.I don't want to spend anything like 1500€ or 2000€. Nothing like that.I don't need a soldering iron with it because I already have one Ersa i-Con Pico soldering station. I just need the hot air gun.So, maybe I'm willing to go up to 150€, 160€, not much more but if there are decent hot air guns around 80€ that makes the expensive ones be dispensible for simple and basic jobs, let me know about them.What I need to do is mostly to remove SMD chips and SMD components. At this moment I need to remove a couple of STM32 chips with LQFP64 packaging from some testing PCBs to be able to use them for the projects themselves, out of the testing environment. Meaning that I have used some converter PCBs to test the code and the circuits and etc and now I need to move those chips to the final PCBs.When I'm looking to buy some new item, like this case, I always search for products in reviews and etc, to get to know less common brands.I found these reviews:https://solderingironguide.com/reviews/best-hot-air-rework-station/https://www.electronicshub.org/best-hot-air-rework-stations/https://besttenreview.com/best-hot-air-rework-stations/Anything worth in these 2 sites?ThanksPsy

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 06:16:18 pm
content: I went from a WEP 858D (which was adequate and is one of many rebrands of the 858) to a Quick 861DW. I'm happy with the upgrade, though the Quick has an odd auto-ramp-up of the fan for the cooldown phase that ends up making it louder than when I was using it...When I read the title though, I thought you were after something like a Hakko FR-301 - another I'd recommend, but not for SMD anything.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 07:23:07 pm
content: I have an Atten 858D+ which serves me well for every rework job I throw at it. A hot-plate is also a worthwhile investment. Just buy it from Ebay / Aliexpress. If you need to rely on it for business then just buy 2. In the end hot air is just hot air.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 07:58:22 pm
content: I have anAoyue 2703A+station that has soldering, desoldering, and hot air. The soldering iron can be replaced with their optional tweezers as well (I have both, it's my only soldering station I need). Cost me $300 USD and I've had it for 4 years. I figure for the price, I could buy 5 of them for the Hakko equivalent if it ever dies.Thanks,Josh

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 08:51:57 pm
content: Don't ever get a cheap soldering iron from the likes of Aoyue, etc. I was so foolish to buy the Aoyue hot tweezers but they are total crap. The tips take solder even worse than the tips from Weller. It went into the bin a long time ago as selling it on would be like giving a turd away.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 09:00:08 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 07, 2021, 08:51:57 pmI haven't tested the tweezers yet (I just recently got them), but the station has been great for 4 years. If the temp is calibrated correctly, I don't see why they would be an issue.I'll post my experience with the tweezers after I try them out.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 09:22:57 pm
content: Just get a 858D for <$50, as nctnico saysWe have a forum section here:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/Most of the stations in those links are garbage.

author: KungFuJosh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 09:26:01 pm
content: I had an X-tronic station for a while. It was mediocre at best, and they replaced it a few times under warranty. That one was not a great experience at all. I think it's still in my basement in its cardboard grave.

author: narkeleptk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 10:00:31 pm
content: From another topic the other day I decided to try one of these two which seem pretty recommended:Quick 861DWAtten ST 862DI dug into both of them for a few days before finally going with the quick from an official distributor. Many suggest the Atten since its a little cheaper and from what I saw they both appear to be about the same power wise. In the end, I was a little concerned about the build quality of the Atten. The official one's already look on the lower end and I really didn't want to take a chance on getting a knock off that's built any poorer.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2021, 11:22:47 pm
content: I need to think about it a bit.Most of the models mentioned are a bit off of my budget.But I understand that to have something minimally decent I might have to spend some more.I'll search a bit more and will be asking here about what I find!

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 02:10:34 am
content: I still think getting one of the 858s is adequate for a lot of stuff, did SMD work with it for a while and never cooked anything but didn't work with BGAs or much with heatsink pads under the chip. For the price, it's an excellent tool, and it will really do most of what the better ones will do reasonably.Not going to last as long, not going to have quite the same features and performance, not going to have every safety feature.... but it's hard to beat at <$40 US, and it's very straightforward to use. It sure beats the pants off of not having a hot air station and trying to do SMD rework.

author: MathWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 05:15:58 am
content: Yeah a lot of people get the 858 clones, I have 1 and I guess it works ok, it can certainly burn PCBs too. I once took a bunch of discrete stuff off a motherboard with it fairly easily tho.I should use it more on SMD stuff, but I keep it packed away, so I just use the iron 99% of the time (on basic parts)The price hotair stations these sure goes off the deep end tho. Next time I upgrade, I want a real brand name tho.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 10:32:58 am
content: What you guys think about this one:https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14557or this one:https://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp-pro/mp740111/hot-air-station-700w-240vac-eu/dp/SD02512

author: ms963
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 01:09:25 pm
content: That CPC linked device is probably just like the clones of the 858 you can get from eBay for half the price. I did just that but I took it apart before first use in order to earth the case properly, move the switching triac to the live side, etc. Beware the ones with the socketed blowers, they have male connectors on the front with live mains on them.

author: pqass
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 02:50:00 pm
content: Quote from: psysc0rpi0n on July 08, 2021, 10:32:58 amI have that one. I like it! But then I haven't really used any other.The reviews that I'd read were all good except for the possibility of a ty wrap (holding down the air reservoir to the pump) being loose. Of course I'd opened it up and everything on my unit was fine. Another complaint was that it can produce too much air (at highest setting); can blow components around.Good build quality too; bonus ground pin was attached to the chassis! Hand piece is sealed so no air leaks; shows attention to detail.I like that it has knobs vs buttons; very intuitive interface. I don't care about having multiple presets.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 03:19:22 pm
content: I am leaning to the Atten 858D

author: Saskia
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 03:21:47 pm
content: Have a quick 861DW sitting here, cost me about 240 Brussels pesos.Don't want any other one. It keeps the temperature and the air flow as set. Build quality is ok. The hand piece is ergonomically ok.Also have an Atten GT-8102 sitting here, but have not tested it yet. Picked it up for a steal from the returns pile of a large distributor. Could not resist at the price. Looks ok from the outside, but is way outside your budget when bought at MSRP.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 05:00:49 pm
content: I bought the, back then, cheapest A brand I could found, an OKI HCT-900-21 about 10 years ago, stil works perfect and plenty of usable power, even in the hardest situations. Temp of the output air is independent from the amount of air. So if I change the flow the temp stays the same. I do not know if the supercheapies do that now, back then not.Do not look at power only, the most important thing is getting the air at the set temp. A rusty 10 kW nail as heater, where most air passes whiteout getting hot, will not do anything.Stations that look alike do not have to be the same inside. Years ago companies relabeled stuff and it did not made much difference if you bought it labeled A or B. Nowadays they copy designs and names if legal or not, so they look the same, even sometimes use the same brand names (called fakes but often are fakes from a fake from the real thing while the inside can be totally different, from really bad to pretty good.How bad the performance of a station is allowed to be (or inefficient) depends of your use. Every station will be able to (de)solder homebrew projects that are made on single or dual sided SMD pcbs using simple components without massive tabs under the chip. If you want to rework graphic cards or multilayer PC boards or high power boards, a lot of cheap (under 200-300 euro) stations will be only "usable" if you also use a preheater and can be pretty frustrating or even cause damageHow bad and unsafe it is allowed to be depends on your own capability to improve or repair it and how often you use it. I only use it to remove parts . I do not work on PCs or other miniature consumer stuff, I use it to repair test and calibration gear and industrial stuff. But in phone/laptop etc repair they often also use it to solder.Over many years cheap stations are often the most expensive

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 07:09:24 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on July 08, 2021, 05:00:49 pmFor large components on multilayer boards a preheater / hot plate is always necessary. There is only so much heat you can get into a board through hot air and delaminating the board due to excessive heat applied through hot air is a risk. So using a lower temperature hot-air station and a pre-heater is the way to go. Usually I set the pre-heater to 150 to 200 degrees which gets a board to around 100 degrees and do the rest with hot-air.Also your remark about the heating element doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how it is constructed; as long as it can dissipate enough power given the airflow rate to make the outgoing air reach the set temperature. Since soldering doesn't require the maximum temperature it is highly unlikely a hot-air station runs out of steam. I usually set the temperatur to 330 degrees. Maybe 340 for some large components but that's it. I have no doubt there will be a difference in durability of the heating elements but you'd have to go through a whole lot of cheap units to make up for the price of an expensive one. What helps again is not needing the maximum temperature for soldering which leads to a longer lifetime anyway.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 08:52:18 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 08, 2021, 07:09:24 pmIn other words, it will perform if it is constructed the right wayYou say the same thing, if it is badly constructed it can not dissipate enough power to make the outgoing air reach the set temperature.You misunderstand my part about the preheater. Your points are valid. You need a preheater when it is the best choice for the situation, not because your station sucks. Besides that, it is sometimes not possible to use a preheater because you roast/melt components on the underside of the PCB. In 10 years I used a preheater one time. That was a maritime PCB, the PCB was an around 5 mm thick heatsink. And on top a whole series of alublocks with M8 bolts to mount it to a bigger heatsinck, the component was a 1x1 cm mosfet with a soldertab as bottom soldered to the PCB) and I have never damaged a single board, nor fried a part. But I only repair measurement- and calibration-gear and some maritime and industrial stuff for a living. Not computer motherboards or other consumer stuff. Today I removed a ULN2803 from a 4-layer G&M board using my OKI. That took me around 10 seconds, The PCB becomes not hot, does not warp or delaminate. I mask the surrounding parts with alutape if needed. I have seen plenty videos from guys reviewing crappy hot air stations needing 5 to 10 minutes to do something similar and cause all kind of damage.I am not talking nonsens, I know you like for most cheap stuff and are anti A-brands. I am old school, good tools cost money, give better results and last a lifetime. I rather safe money and then buy quality instead of buying crappy junk that frustates me, cost more time, causes damage and ends to soon as e-waist. That is not good on many levels. I have used (and owned as a kid) cheap stations/irons and use for my work only high end stations (the last 10 years or so I have a Pace MBT250 and since this week also a new MBT350 , for +10 years an OKI hot air, 2 Metcal rework stations (expensive but crap, so not always expensive=good, but for soldering gear this was my only miskoop) , a WS81 Weller ) and in the last 40 years I owned several cheap irons and stations but with most times not a so good experience, besides that I have used all kinda stations from friends. I solder and desolder a lot. I repair a lot of boards where the only way is to remove almost all parts, test the parts (I have a lot of equipement, for a big part designed and build myself, to test all kind of components and resolder them, I use more then a kilo solder per year.) Most industrial and maritime boards that are part of some installation and I can not power on (and there are no schematics) For most I repair them for companies that often do repairs them self but are not able repair these boards them selve. Without my Pace I am screwed, that is why I have two of them. Yesterday I desoldered, tested and resoldered 40 ICs and 60 relais.

author: TheBay
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 08, 2021, 10:27:18 pm
content: I've had/used a few hot air stations and bought a WEP 858D as it was cheap just to use for heatshrink. But I liked it that much I sold my Metcal HCT-900-21 and have used the WEP for about 5 years with zero issues and it gets used daily. I much prefer the airflow from the fan type of hot air stations over the diaphragm pump based stations such as the Metcal and the Hakko's I'd used in work.When the WEP 858D finally breaks I will probably get a Quick branded station.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 07:26:12 am
content: I might be giving the wrong idea. I will not use the hot air station in a daily basis, almost for sure. I whish I would. It'd mean I was working on something I like, which is not the case, at least, yet.And a part from that, this is only for very basic jobs. I don't think I need pre-heaters or anything like thatAnd, now, to be hoest, I'm thinking more about the Quick one. It's more expensive but seems to be one of the stations with best ratio quality/price.However, I might need to think in a way of buying it as almost 300€ is way to much for what I can spend right now! I still haven't forget the Atten brand.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 02:38:04 pm
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on July 08, 2021, 08:52:18 pmYou are implying the cheap units don't reach their set temperature. But they do so your claim is nonsense.QuoteThat is an outright lie. It is just that in some cases a cheap tool can work well and there is no need to pay more. I don't see the added value in paying a lot of money for a hot-air station. In the end hot-air is hot-air. There is not much that can go wrong with that. A good soldering iron OTOH doesn't come cheap. Sometimes you do need to spend money on something good. See my earlier reply.

author: narkeleptk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 03:35:26 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 09, 2021, 02:38:04 pmFor the most part I agree but there are some differences in how well that hot air is delivered and how well the machine is put together as a whole .For someone who will not use the tool often a cheap $50 station will be just fine for most basic things like small passive smd components, beyond that someone will need to have good experience with knowing how to use it to remove things. It really just depends on the current needs and future plans of the person using it. Personally, I prefer well built things but I also have some cheap stations as well.

author: peteru
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2021, 05:31:08 pm
content: I'd say that for occasional use the best bet is to save a bundle of money and get a cheap 858D. Perfectly fine for heatshrink and a few smallish components. I'd hazard to guess that with only sporadic use the limitations will be due to your skills and technique, not so much the hot air tool you use.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 01:02:47 am
content: OP won't be repairing graphics cards or PC motherboards.I've used my 858 clone thousands of times, almost on a daily basis, for over 5 years. Repaired it once at ~3 years, where I broke the cable strain relief from pulling it too hard. You can also buy an entire replacement handle for $20.I will get a Quick/Best at some point, but in addition to, not as a replacement for the 858. I'm not aware of any higher power station with such a light handpiece, other than some oddball IR ones.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 08:19:26 am
content: Quote from: peteru on July 09, 2021, 05:31:08 pmYup. Using hot-air effectively needs developing some skills to understand how to direct the airflow and which nozzle & temperature setting to use for a particular job.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 10:35:31 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on July 09, 2021, 02:38:04 pmThis is real basic engineering.You have a heater that transforms electrical power in to heat. To cool it down you blow air over/through/around it. The trick is here to prevent the heater from overheating or cooling down to much and get as much of the heat to the air (a bad conductor) and without as minimal loss as possible to the outside via the nozzle and not through holes in the handpiece or the handpiece itself that also act as an aircoolerTo much air and it will cool down the heater to much, and the air itself too, because there is more air that needs heating in the same time periode.To get the best rendement the heater must have a big area that is in contact with the air. It is just like the radiator of a car, they use a lot of small tubes to get a big surface that is in contact with the air.Or like the tubes in the steamketltle of a steam-locomotiveThen you have to design it so that the airflow is optimal. The flow must be high enough without reflections back to the fan, no leakage to the outside and the air must see as much heater as long as possible.The power must be high enough to keep the air at the set temp with max flow but not so high you damage things with the minimum flow (like a melting handpiece)And then you need to design a temperature regulation that measures at the right spot and fast enough to prevent big over and undershoots. And keeps the airtemp constant independent from the amount of air. If you measure inside the element the airflow that comes out the nozzle will be cooler as on the display. The best place is to measure as close to the nozzle as possible. (with the risk of overheating the element if your design is crap)So if you think this is nonsens because hot air is just hot air then invent a timemachine and travel back to the time steam trains were build and tell them it is nonsens to make the whole pipe-construction in the steamkettle, one pipe is as lot cheaper and will work as well. Then toss out your cars radiator and replace it by a single tube, a lot cheaper and according to you as good because aircooling is just aircooling. The same for you radiators in house, why bother with those complex forms, just a cheap pipe will do.But this is an insult of your intelligence, you must know these basic things, except when it is applied in cheap hot air stations, then you think every design works as well....What someone needs depends of what he wants to do with it, not how often of how much cash he has to spend. If you want to race only once a year in the F1, you still need a F1 car and they are expensive. So if the TS only wants to remove some resistors from single sided board, every station will do (until it selfdistructs), if he wants to work on parts with big ground contacts on the back on thick PCBs with big ground planes not every station will work. Most serious stations will do, and some cheap ones probably too. Which one is difficult, cheap brand A model B from last year can be totally different in performance as the latest model. And 2 the same looking knockoffs can perform totally different. And then there is safety, durability, spareparts etcI made a small drawing to show what I mean by how the design matters. The left corner has a "heated nail" and the sensor at the nozzle. This will not be effective but very cheap to produce. The bottom left has a big heater but only one hole. The air will not cool the heater down but a lot of heat will radiate to the outside and the airflow will be rather restricted. What the sensor in the middle will measure will not be close to what comes out the wide nozzle. The right one will be able to let a lot of air pass and measured at the right place. The heater is also as long as possible. This construction is the most expensive. First thing the no-brands will do is to half the size of the heater, half the length of resistance wire, half the number of holes, place the sensor somewhere in the heater. This because now they can use cheaper plastic. To get 300 degrees air the heater has to bo be hotter and if the airflow is low and the power max the plastic will melt. Keeping the heater at 300- degrees will be safer if you let costs design your product. The only way to get such a cheap stations is to select everything, from plastic to screws as cheap as possible. That is the only design goal.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 11:48:04 am
content: I have bought an Aoyue 852A++ many years ago and it has been quite nice over all these years (check a short video of it in actionhere). I don't use it for production, so it has seen light action.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 01:17:10 pm
content: I did a bunch of YouTube reviews last year on various hot air stations. I think the BST-863 offers the best value for money, but lately I see a handful of people have had some issues. I'm not sure if that's just something happening during shipping or a decline in quality though.Current offer at $139 is extremely good value though:https://bit.ly/2XRCkAQI don't like the stations with the blower in the handle since the handpiece is a bit less manoeuvrable and you can get some gyroscopic effects of the fan.

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 01:53:12 pm
content: I have done some measurements with my 900W Oki, the most simple one. Maybe this is usable for a beginner. So you know how long a simple but decent station needs. So if you are already at 10 minutes and the processor is still not coming loose then you better stop before you fry things and try a preheater.I used it at 350 degrees measured 1 cm from the 7mm nozzle. Airflow at 6 (knob goes from 0 to 10) The victim was a computer mobo. No preheater, no flux. (tried also with flux but that made no difference in time) The amount of air from 0 to 10 gives around +/- 5% temp variation.small ceramic smd caps and resistors, depending the location 2 to 5 seconds. Hard to measure because of the short time3x PHD3055E it is a TO220 size SMD but a short tab and legs. around 10 to 15 seconds depending the location.3x 55N03LT, about twice the height of a TO220 between 0.5 and 1 minute mounted 1 cm from a plastic expansion slot connectorThe last test the processor, this without the nozzle, no flux, no preheater, no damage. Almost 3 minutes. It is a Intel AGPset, according the wiki a 440BX

author: narkeleptk
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 03:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: SteveyG on July 10, 2021, 01:17:10 pmIts a real shame they went with a touch screen for controls. Not sure why the designs have gone away from simple knob controls for heat and flow.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 10, 2021, 03:52:17 pm
content: Quote from: narkeleptk on July 10, 2021, 03:36:36 pmIt's actually not as bad as you'd imagine. Certainly a rotary potentiometer is quicker, but once you do your three presets it's fine.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2021, 08:10:28 am
content: Quote from: PA4TIM on July 10, 2021, 10:35:31 amBut none are equal to the heater design used in the popular Atten 858D; this uses a heating element made from a spiral wound on a bobin which therefore has a very large surface area. The Chinese aren't stupid!

author: PA4TIM
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2021, 01:36:43 pm
content: I have seen a lot of teardowns from 858D handpieces and they use all kinda different heaters. I have seen a 4 channel with the coil for-most heating the metal sleeve instead of the air but also a 8 air channels with a much better spaced windings. Dave has a review of one and there the squirlcase fan has two holes cut in the side of the fan, other do not have those holes. Some have very bad bearings, others spin fine. Buying these things is a kind of a lottery. There are besides that problems with safety, melting handpieces etc.These firms are not dumb, their customers however is a totally different matter and the Chinese know that. They are the laughing ones.All pictures are from Atten. The "good" one is from their website, the other twos from yutube. You see 4 channels (very bad design) and 6 channels. The Hakko heater is a much better construction you also see in some OKIs. The atten from their euro website is a bit like those in f.i. JBC, but the latter has almost twice the amount of windings.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2021, 06:29:32 pm
content: My Aoyue is similar in shape as the "four channels" (?) photograph, but it does an excellent job in heating and desoldering stuff. I use a Hakko FR803 at work and does a very similar job as the Aoyue.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2021, 09:50:59 am
content: The only time you really need anything special is when you solder BGAs, not because they're that special per se but because they will be balled with leadless solder. I always use a hot plate for that, put flux on the footprint (just the pen variety works for me), and after the board is at 250 or so hit it with hot air from a wide nozzle at low flow. For more prototypey results, you can put leaded solder paste on the pads, and solder the pads to the leadless balls. That is super easy with just a hot air gun, but can be iffy and not terribly reliable (easy to crack the solder-to-solder joint for some reason). I use a Quick 861DW and recently got the cute little USB-C powered heater Dave recently mentioned in a mailbag episode.

author: psysc0rpi0n
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 15, 2021, 08:45:09 pm
content: Ok, I end up buying the Quick 861DW in Bangood for something like 217€ (already inlcude the taxes that started being added at 1 July).I hope this will be the best one I could buy, for the price!Thanks for all replies and knowledge left by everyone.Psy