nice mitutoyo calipers that were on sale - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2014, 11:16:33 pm
content: watching amazon, this season, these things popped up on 'gold box' sale. $80 on sale (normally over $110). oh, sure, why not. I like having nice test gear, and since I am doing a lot more custom box-building these days, might as well have some trustable measurement tools.even the plastic box feels like quality.(this is the item:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IG46NL2)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2014, 11:30:13 pm
content: What does 'absolute' mean? No need to reset each time you turn it on? How stable is it?I often use my analog calipers just because it doesn't require zeroing.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2014, 11:37:06 pm
content: My experience with Mitutoyo verniers & calipers is all good. I love their stuff.Yes, they don't require re-zeroing when you switch them on. There is something extra built into the pattern (capacitive) that is allows the calipers to work out which segment they are in.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2014, 11:57:08 pm
content: Looks better than my cheapo $30 Enkay caliper but it does does the job.Edit: it doesn't require zeroing either.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 12:12:03 am
content: I have a pair just like those, but they also have a fractional display (3 modes, mm, inch and fraction of inch). they are low end knockoffs, but they do work and I've used mine quite a bit. I thought the fraction display would be useful but its not really. rarely in life do things fall on exact values, and you end up with 64ths and 128ths, which really don't add value to the measurement

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 12:39:20 am
content: My wife bought a storm door that had poor instructions a a lot of screws of many sizes some with fractional values, I got this caliper to make sure I was using the right screws and the fractional measurement came in handy.

author: Leuams
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 01:23:12 am
content: I love quality measument tools. Starrett, Brown and Sharpe are two other companies that makes great calipers and tools. Love all my Starrett micrometers and machinist tools.

author: RobertoLG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 01:30:34 am
content: I have this one, it's more than 30 years old lol!

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 03:38:07 am
content: Question is (and I don't mean to be smart alec about it), since you are doing custom boxes with it, do you really need 0.0001 inch precision?It would be rather hard to make a box to that kind of precision. I have not measure exactly, but having file aluminum as most have... Say filing down a hole in an aluminum box, one extra movement of the file will remove a good bit more than 0.0001 inch.I fully understand "just to have it", I don't need better than 5% accuracy but I got a DMM with much higher resolution than 5% "just to have it. I assume that is the case?

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 06:41:55 am
content: That mic isn't +/- 0.0001" precision. The last digit is 5 or 0 for +\- 0.0005".The rule of thumb (which I would argue is over-conservative) is that a measuring instrument needs to be 10x better precision than the dimension one is trying to measure, so the OP's Mitutoyos aren't out of line at all for enclosures.I'd also add that they're a lifetime investment if cared for. I still have my set of Mits from college and they work nicely. I really like the idea of the absolute scale. That's a huge improvement in the device.Enjoy! You got a spectacular deal.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 08:49:46 am
content: Quote from: zapta on December 25, 2014, 11:30:13 pmThe Absolute feature basicly means, that you can zero the display at lets say 100 mm, do some measurements and press the button again. It will then give you the excact reading without zeroing it.Hope it makes sense.Mitutoyo are a good brand in measurement tools.EDIT: Better explanation here:The ZERO/ABS key allows the display to be Zero-Set at any slider position along the scale for incremental comparison measurements. This switch will also allow return to the absolute (ABS) coordinate and display of the true position from the origin point (usually jaws-closed point) - See more at:http://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/ABSOLUTE-Digimatic-Caliper-Series-500-with-Exclusive-ABSOLUTE-Encode-Technology-C1381.aspx#sthash.WcErncmz.dpuf

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 09:15:51 am
content: I would think that the absolute feature means that you can remove the battery, move the slider, put the battery back and still get accurate readings without having to zero it.

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 09:21:29 am
content: Quote from: zapta on December 26, 2014, 09:15:51 amI have just tested, and it works on mine. Mine is the non-AOS version.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 03:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 26, 2014, 03:38:07 amI've bought 20+ different sets of calipers over the last few years, trying almost all the cheap Chinese ones - and IMO, the only ones worth buying are iGaging for around $40, or just get Mitutoyo's for ~$120. The problem is not that the cheaper ones are only accurate to 0.001 whereas Mits are good for 0.0005... the problem is that the <$20 ones are so cheaply made and with such bad QC that it might be within 0.001 one time, then the next time off by 0.050. I bought 4 of one kind once and one of them had so much play in the mechanism that it was often off by 1/16". Another had flash in the groove on the back and it felt like there was sand in the mechanism. Another had the slider so loose it would up and down making the jaws close over each other. Just horrendous QC and quality - which is the exact opposite of what you want in a measurement tool that is your last line of verification and control over your work.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 04:00:57 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on December 26, 2014, 09:15:51 amThe absolute memory isonlyretained with battery power. There is a capacitor that will hold enough charge to change a battery quickly but if you leave the battery out for a minute or so it will loose its last origin setting. Theorigin buttonis used to set the absolute memory to zero with the jaws closed. Thezero/abs buttonjust does a incremental zero without disturbing the absolute origin setting.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 04:05:42 pm
content: For most of my work a regular set of non electronic vernier calipers works well, and I have a large set if I need to measure up to 500mm if needs be. Not used much , bought by my brother in law who wanted the wooden case it came in. I got the insides, not bad for a $5 purchase.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 04:08:20 pm
content: Quote from: robrenz on December 26, 2014, 04:00:57 pmIf I understand correctly what you say, the actual sensor is not absolute and it requires the electronic to track and remember it's position. What is the difference then between an absolute and non absolute caliper? One tracks also when it is 'off' and the other doesn't? Or is it just that the absolute one has two internal registers (distances from absolute and current zeros) and the other just one (distance from current zero)?EDIT: the description on Amazon suggest that it's really absolute: "The calipers use the ABSOLUTE electrostatic capacitance linear encoder which helps prevent overspeed errors.", "uses Mitutoyo’s ABSOLUTE linear encoder technology", not just memory tricks.

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 04:18:12 pm
content: The system is truly absolute in the fact that you can remove the slider head from the beam and place it in a new position and it will read where it is from the beam. It does not need to count pulses during travel at all, that is why it is impossible to over speed these calipers, I believe it just stores a value in battery/capacitor powered memory for where it is at origin setting. The incremental zero only lasts while you have the caliper on and is just math from the absolute position. As soon as you turn it off and back on again it defaults to absolute.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 04:25:11 pm
content: The Mitutoyo caliper is real nice and I have one as well.But if I need to take a lot of measurements and store the data, I am using a different toy.The MarCal 16 EWRiIt has a wireless connection and stores the data automatically to an Excel or Text file.Like the new Mitutoyo or the TESA calipers, it also has a 11 mm number high and is easily readable from a wide angle.But somehow, the Mitutoyo feels more right in my hand.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2014, 05:31:22 pm
content: The absolute feature looks very useful (I hate having to zero mine each time). I don't care much about accuracy. Are there lower cost absolute calipers on the market?Edit: stumbled upon this video:

author: Leadfootin
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 02:09:28 am
content: I have had the same Mitutoyo caliber for about four years. Excellent tool with long battery life.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 03:38:45 am
content: I tested if my cheapo caliper is absolute and it failed the test. The steps were1. Close the caliper and zero it.2. Move the slide half way, hold the slider with one hand and the rail with the other hand.3. Now is the tricky part, move the slider back and forth (doesn't have to go all the way) but *as fast as you can*.4. Close the caliper all the way and notice the reading. It should be zero or very close to zero. Mine was way off.My analog (vernier) caliper is absolute though and it passed the test ;-)

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 08:11:26 am
content: I have a Mitutoyo caliper, it is being used extensively for the last 9 years, however, part of the range got erratic, probably some dirt got inside the slider somehow.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:02:40 am
content: Quote from: zapta on December 27, 2014, 03:38:45 amMy $30 one passed that test and also the measurement from the top to the tip with no error measuring the width of a paper clip.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:47:49 am
content: To miguelvp.You might want to check the current draw of this brand of vernier caliper, I think you will be surprised at the results between the on and off states.Here are my results, average current draw testing on 6 sets of these. Sold as Skillmeister Brand, tested with Agilent U1272A.On pulsating 18-20uaOff pulsating 17-19uaAlso they will draw about 45ua when any button is pressed.Now this may not seem to be a big problem for some users of this product, but I have found that they chew batteries compared to the mitutoyo's and other brands that I use on a daily basis. They are good value calipers except for this issue, general use only.Battery must be removed when not in use. (Pain in the ass)Relevant only to the vernier's that miguelvp displayed, not the mitutoyo's.Muttley

author: larry42
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 01:34:45 pm
content: Quote from: Rick Law on December 26, 2014, 03:38:07 amTo elaborate on a previous answer regarding a factor of 10 more accuracy than needed:I don't do much mechanical work but as you say, you don't need 0.1thou (=0.0001inch) precision. However, don't worry - with ordinary grade vernier calipers you won't get that. I just bought a Mitutoyo 530 series (standard analog) - there are the same precision as most digitals. That is to say, 0.03mm accuracy, 0.02mm scale - that is 'only' ~1thou accuracy. Now if you take a couple of measurements, from different edges, to get the dimensions of the box and each measurement is off by a fraction of a thou', that adds up to perhaps 0.1mm, which is about where I would aim to be. If you are then drilling holes to fit M2.5 hardware, being 1mm off is pretty noticeable!With multimeters, in my professional option, 0.1%-0.5% is about the right precision for a multimeter in a standard electronics labs - this gives good confidence that then 1.20V supply line is well within 50mV (or 5V line is within 100mV), without having to calculate error margins, and thus in turn is makes fault finding easier (is a supply lower due to more current being drawn, or is it just today's measurement error). For my kitchen multimeter, 1-5% is fine. Similarly for my living-room calipers (digital), a slight play in the mechanism of 0.1mm is fine.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 03:36:16 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on December 27, 2014, 09:47:49 am

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 08:47:25 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on December 27, 2014, 09:47:49 amI don't have a power supply, and it seems my mA fuse is blown, I have another DMM around but after cleaning my home office so it's presentable for Xmas I've misplaced it.Edit: found it.18 uA while on16 uA while offButton press if I hold it down 82 uA, but I rarely have to press any buttons and off course I don't have to keep holding them down when operating them so it's not really a concern.Sliding the caliper stays in between 17-18 uARemoving the battery zero's the caliper BTW, and applying power turns the caliper on by default.Now I wonder why my main meter fuse is blown, it's only rated at 200 mA so maybe I measured something in haste and didn't go to the Amp range first, or maybe the fuse is dislodged but I doubt that.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:23:06 pm
content: To Zapta.The only Mitutoyo's that I have at hand are the 500-674c series (300mm) and run two batteries is series, so a comparison of current draw is invalid.Also there is a large selection of models in the Mitutoyo's and I think you will find that most user's agree that the battery life on these units is more than excellent.I have only pointed out that the unit that miguelvp displayed generally have an issue with battery consumption and I know this from experience with the product. I had two samples sent both 200mm and 300mm, was satisfied with the samples so we ordered 15 x 200mm and 15 x 300mm, after 10 days of intermittent use they needed new batteries, rinse and repeat. So we sent back most of the order. Kept a few as a reminder never to buy these again, documented the problem and notified the supplier.Muttley

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:30:58 pm
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on December 27, 2014, 09:23:06 pmThanks Muttley, any chance of measuring the current of your Mitutouo and reporting here?

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 09:38:01 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on December 27, 2014, 09:30:58 pmAnd please include the current consumption when it is off as well, just to know if it's an always on unit or if it actually shuts all the way off.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:02:53 pm
content: A nightmare of a test to conduct, the thing's I do for you bloke's.Had to use min/ max, reading's were a bit to quick to see.Min 10.52uaMax 222.32ua (intemittent peak pulse)Avg 28.20uaOff state reading's are just to hard for one man, clips wont stay on, might have another go later on today, not an important test really.After about 30 seconds the unit seemed to be happy at around 20ua, the 500-674c uses two SR44 1.55 volt coin cells.Muttley

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:12:42 pm
content: Thanks, I know about the nightmarish test, even with one battery it was an ordeal for me using a DMM and trying to measure and operate the caliper without clips, a power supply would have been easier for testing.At least I didn't loose any of the two tiny screws that hold the battery in, that's my major gripe about my caliper.As for the off state I think it's the only important test to see how much it depletes the batteries while not being used. Mine consumes almost the same as when in use (16uA vs 18uA)It came with an spare battery and the other one already installed which I have not replaced yet but I have no idea how long it's been in there. So in my case auto shut off only saves 2uA maybe because the only thing that shuts off is the actual LCD display and little else.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:24:45 pm
content: To miguelvpI don't mind these cheap calipers for just run of the mill stuff, and if they get knocked off the work bench I don't give a stuff for what we paid.Originally, I did pull a set apart to see if I could install a jumper link as a battery isolator, but I do have some nice sets in other brands and gave up on these for other reasons as well.Muttley

author: monkeysuncle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2014, 12:12:02 am
content: I have a Mitutoyo 500-196 that I bought several years ago on sale for about $75. My biggest complaint is that they do not have an auto-off feature, unlike my cheapo Harbor Freight calipers. I'm not good about remembering to push the off button when I lay them down, so I have found that the HF calipers are much more likely to have working batteries the next time I pick them up. The HF also turns itself on automatically when I slide the head, whereas on the Mitutoyo I need to push the button.And even though they use an incremental encoder, I find the HF usually remembers its zero point between uses.In highly informal testing, I have not noticed any differences in the readings between the two calipers.So on the whole, I hate to say this, but I reach for the HF more often.--Dan Menes

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2014, 01:48:39 am
content: This Mitutoyo caliper uses solar cells instead of batteries. Anybody has any experience with it?http://amzn.com/B002SG7QN8http://www.mitutoyo.com/pdf/1814SuperSolarCaliper.pdf

author: zagnut
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 28, 2014, 11:35:10 pm
content: don't care for the absolute feature myself...the OCD in me will zero it whenever it gets turned on anyways.out of all my calipers i prefer to use my ancient mitutoyo digimatic even though the display is tiny compared to the newer ones. have had it for twenty years and it was used when i got it. battery lasts for years.the ones starret makes (or rebrands) totally suck in comparison, i have an older chinese one i prefer to those.

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 02:47:17 am
content: It doesn't matter anyway. All the on-off switch does is turn off the LCD, saving practically nothing. It's there just to make you feel good.The controller has to be up and running normally at all times or else you would have to rezero the callipers every time you turned them on. No-one wanted that so that design is pretty much abandoned now. The absolute worst ones would auto-off on you and loose their zero, and so also your measurement.Hold the calipers up to a light when you zero them. That way you'll be able to see if a bit of dust is stuck between the jaws. You can easily see a 0.00025" / 0.005mm gap that way.It seems to me that some of the cheap digital ones are getting cheaper. Some now have no gib adjustment to square the jaws and are so floppy getting a reliable measurement out at the tips is impossible. Others have gib screws directly grinding into the beam. The cheap mechanical ones don't seem as bad. I kind of prefer these if not switching between SAE and metric. No batteries and you can interpolate a bit between markings, and rocking to get a correct inside measurement is easier. I go to the store with a gauge and exploit the bell curve to find a decent one. Normally they do need a little work (~ 1hr) with a stone on the beam to get the gibs set nice without binding somewhere along the beam. Would not buy a cheapy I couldn't try out though. Not with Mitutoyos at an affordable price.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 06:13:48 pm
content: The largest micrometer I have. Goes to 650mm with an accuracy of 1/50mm. A little hard to use on small parts, but was perfect to mark a board for cutting.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2014, 09:50:12 pm
content: Thanks, guys... Learned something here.I hand-(re)made a couple of boxes, and I was not able to get better than 1/16" with my hole positioning. So, 0.0001 looked way over-done for me.I see your perspective now.RickQuote from: larry42 on December 27, 2014, 01:34:45 pmQuote from: Corporate666 on December 26, 2014, 03:24:52 pmQuote from: LabSpokane on December 26, 2014, 06:41:55 am

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 03:46:16 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on December 25, 2014, 11:16:33 pmGot this caliper from Amazon, together with this iGuaging absolute caliperhttp://amzn.com/B00INL0BTS. The best of the two will stay here.One problem I have with the Mitutoyo is that that little push wheel seems to get stuck. It rolls when I push it to close the jaws but it doesn't disengage if I keep pushing it once the jaws are closed. My understanding it that it should disengaged and turn freely once the target force is reached.If I hold the Mitutoyo horizontally horizontally with the jaws point down and then push the push wheel up it stays there stuck rather than falling back down.Is it normal?

author: robrenz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 04:06:42 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on February 14, 2015, 03:46:16 pm

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 04:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: zapta on February 14, 2015, 03:46:16 pmGaah! I hate when people try products out and then send them back. The one you return will become an opened box, used item that someone else will receive "as new".

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 04:15:31 pm
content: No consumer protection laws in the USA? Here it will go on the reduced price stock list for sale at either a slight discount or will be kept for the periodic sale shelf.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 04:19:30 pm
content: Amazon doesn't do that. When you buy something from Amazon there is a chance that you will receive a previously returned item. OK, you can send it back and ask for a replacement, but it's a hassle.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 14, 2015, 05:09:56 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 14, 2015, 04:09:07 pmI first ordered the iGuaging but it was notchy so ordered also the Mituyoto, all in good faith.It's not for you to determine Amazon policies. For some products they even pay the return shipping to encourage people to try to compete with brick and mortars. Don't like it? go somewhere else.http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=8622296011

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 08:43:41 pm
content: Interesting thread. I'm glad that video with the iGaging calipers was included. Over the past few years I've messed with calipers from quite a few brands including a few generations of the Mitutoyos. In general I think the Mitutoyos are the best. For the most part I can't suggest any other brand IF you want to spend the money. In addition to having a few Mitus we also have a Starrett and Tesa/Brown and Sharpe Shop-Cal at work. The Starrett and Tesa are of similar build quality to the Mitu but they lack the absolute feature. It's just nice to not have to think about zeroing the caliper every time you turn it on.The Tesa does have a crude work around. When you first turn it on the display flashes a zero indicator. Thus if you turn it on near but not at zero you won't think it's actually zeroed (this is a problem with the cheap calipers). It has an auto display off but retains power (and thus zero) for about 2 hours. Then it will power down unless you put it in ABS mode. In that mode it will stay on until the battery is dead. Thanks to the 2032 lithium cell that battery lasts as long as the Mitutoyos even though it's not as power efficient. Then again, 2032s are cheaper than RS44s.Something I don't like about the Tesa is the single button interface. The three button functions are all handled by one button depending on how long you hold it. Well, in the US I switch between inches and metric frequently so that 2 second delay actually is rather annoying. If you release early you zero the caliper. It's much nicer to have the extra buttons.In addition to the lower end models of the good brands (all around $90-120 street price) I've used several of the Chinese models. The video showed two iGaging models. We have some of the large display ones that got second. They are under $25 from Amazon and a VERY good value. The guy is right, they don't have the cheap feel of the $10 models. Their build is really quite impressive for the price and in most cases I would have trouble suggesting any of the more expensive brands over the iGagings. My personal Mitutoyos are better but I own them only because I got a great deal on them (used, oddly listed on ebay). I tested the iGagings against the Mitus and found that they had no accuracy advantage. The feel was OK but not as good. Still, for a near $100 savings that would have been that were it not for the ebay deal I found. It doesn't hurt that the fractional stuff is useful from time to time. I would be curious to try the Absolute model.The other, cheaper Chinese models seem to be a mixed bag. My first pair was reasonably well machined (almost as good as the Mitutoyos) and cost perhaps $25 about 8 years back. They actually were dead on when measuring a gauge pin while my work provided Mitus were one count off (both in spec). The Chinese ones did eat batteries. I was going to suggest those calipers for a school lab a few years back but the design was changed. The newest ones (and these are similar to the current Harbor Freight models, not the HF ones from about 5 years back) have VERY crude finishes on them. When the jaws are closed the depth measuring tail was 0.007 out of flush. While I have no doubt that sliding the head 105mm would result in a reading 105.00mm greater than it started, I can't trust that the jaws are square or close properly etc.My biggest concern is that some versions of the generic Chinese models seem acceptably good while others are VERY crude. With out a hands on I can't tell which is which. The old HF and the new ones look almost the same yet I can see why the calipers are now half the price they were just a few years back. Anyway, this is why I would suggest the iGaging over the other cheap brands. It's hard to say "spend $120 vs $10" to someone who doesn't really need the all 4 measuring surfaces to be perfect and doesn't mind picking up 10 LR44 cells for $2 to match the same battery life a Mitutoyo will deliver off one $2 battery. But it's easy to say avoid the $10 stuff and step up to a $24 caliper that is almost as good as the $100+ stuff.That or wait for the rare "Craftsman" or other relabeled Mitutoyo to come up on ebay. Yes, just as you can occasionally find a "Matco" labeled Fluke 87, Mitutoyo did custom label jobs.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 08:59:11 pm
content: Is the Mitutoyo really absolute? Mine required zeroing after inserting the battery. The iGuaging didn't.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 09:54:59 pm
content: I posted this stuff in another thread (Fake Flukes) but I think that it belongs here.Edit: Replaced Mitutoyo Imitation Leaflet PDF.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 15, 2015, 10:02:57 pm
content: What a world,Fake Mitutoyo calipers?And since not all fakes will look the same, it will probably get harder and harder to see the difference and even identify a fake.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 01:21:29 am
content: Quote from: zapta on February 15, 2015, 08:59:11 pmYes, they don't do an incremental count to know where they are on the beam. They can retain the zero when the battery is removed but only for a short period of time. My understanding is that the bar effectively has an absolute scale on it but the position of "zero" isn't set. Thus you must put a zero value in memory. That memory requires some power to retain. As was said earlier in the thread, this means the caliper doesn't give you a current reading based on counting increments since the zero point but instead gives you a reading by taking the current location subtract the zero location. The iGaging calipers (as well as one of the Chinese sets) basically continue to measure even when the are "off". This seems to really kill the LR44 batteries. I suspect the move to CR2032 batteries is to give the caliper a battery that lasts long enough to not care about this constant on drain. Incidentally, some of the generic Chinese models we have at work seem to fully shut down when off. They don't eat batteries but they also forget zero the moment the display is off.Note that some of the older Mitutoyos were not absolute reading.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 01:46:42 am
content: I tested my iGuaging, it doesn't lose the absolute zero even when I remove the battery and move the slider.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 01:48:45 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on February 15, 2015, 10:02:57 pmI just checked out some of the out of China sites that claim to sell Mitutoyos. Most likely show you pictures of the real deal regardless of what they are going to sell you. A few showed pictures that were clearly fakes. The layout of the LCD is a big giveaway. The lock screw is another. I suspect once in hand it's pretty easy to tell the difference. However, do you think you will get your money back from most of the sellers? I'm not sure what ebay's policy is on fake hardware. Do you have to return it to China?

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 01:52:03 am
content: Quote from: zapta on February 16, 2015, 01:46:42 amThe same is true of my Mitutoyos. I'm just not sure how long you can leave the battery out before the memory is lost. Mine seem to last at least 10 seconds and moving the head with the battery out is not an issue. I assume you have the absolute iGagings, not the cheaper In/mm/fraction model I had?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:02:09 am
content: Is it such a big deal to re-zero the caliper after changing the battery, or even before each use?I have one of the CenTech calipers from Harbor Freight that I bought some years ago (presumably before the quality went downhill). The action is silky, the edges are smooth and there is no play in the mechanism. If I slide the head up and down as fast as seems sensible it doesn't lose track of its position. It always goes back to zero when I slide it closed.I'm quite sure the Mitutoyo caliper is much better and I would get one if I needed one to use on a daily or weekly basis. But for one to keep in the toolkit for occasional measurements, what I have seems fine. (Since I know about the battery draining issue, I keep an SR44 battery in the case, but uninstalled. For my occasional measurements it is not a big chore to insert the battery before use.)

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:11:26 am
content: It's not huge. It does have a few advantages. First, if you measure, lock, the put the calipers down for a while you know your reading will be there when you get back. With some calipers the reading is gone the moment they go into power save (perhaps 5 minutes). With others like my TESAs you have about 2 hours. The other issue is forgetting to rezero. Not a big issue with the TESAs as they have a no-zero warning. This is a bigger deal with the Chinese models that don't. If you leave the calipers with the jaws visually closed but not fully closed, when you next use them they might appear to be zeroed. Just a bit off of zero can be the difference between a bearing fitting nicely on the shaft and the bearing being lose on the shaft (or not fitting). Basically it's a bit of mistake prevention. It's not a huge thing but if I'm paying $100+ for calipers why wouldn't I want that (hence why would I pay $100+ and not buy Mitutoyos). If we are talking discount calipers, well at $25 I will accept some compromises so long as they aren't related to accuracy.Disclaimer, I paid about $30 for my TESAs in like new condition and less than $20 for my rebranded Mitutoyos. If you can find the deal then why get the China calipers. Sadly, like the $50 Fluke 87-3 I bought a few years back I can't find those deals on demand. Like the Fluke 87, I couldn't justify paying full price for these tools given my personal needs. When I'm on the job I'm using tools paid for by others.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:20:50 am
content: Quote from: Robomeds on February 16, 2015, 02:11:26 amOK, but if you are dealing with bearings and trying to be accurate within 1000ths of an inch, then shouldn't you be using a micrometer and calibrating it before use? (Not to mention measuring more than once.) IMHO your measurement instrument should have a precision at least ten times greater than the dimension you are trying to measure.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 02:47:11 am
content: Much of what I've been doing can be done with calipers vs micrometers (we have those as well when needed). Plastic shafts are less diameter sensitive than metal ones. It's also a question of how tight do you need the fit to be. As I said, it's an error prevention thing. It's easy to visually miss 0.005" (~.12mm) yet for many checks that is all of your tolerance. Imagine if you had to re-zero the voltage and or continuity readings on a multimeter each time you used it by shorting the probes. I'm sure we could do it but I'm glad we don't.Incidentally, at my last job (FDA regulated) all of our tools that were used for production or for design history data had to be calibrated. Calibration was just a check to make sure the tool was in spec, no adjustments were made (that would be a calibration followed by adjustment). Most basic measurement tools like calipers (and multimeters) are never adjusted (and I'm not including the tinkers around here). They are typically correct when new and stay correct for years. The calibration just ensures they are still correct at a later date. So when someone asks about our measurements we could show a tool was in spec before and after the measurements were taken. Oddly the don't ask if the spec was appropriate for the job.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 04:21:06 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on February 15, 2015, 10:02:57 pmI think it's a good sign when companies start getting worried about fakes, since it means they are at the point of becoming competitive with them.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 04:48:36 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 16, 2015, 04:21:06 pmI don't think that is always true. Legally they have to show they are doing something about it else they can lose their trademark under US law. However, sometimes the fakes are good enough to confuse. I read a few posts about the fake Mitutoyos where people said they contacted Mitutoyo to find out why their new caliper from China wasn't working that well. If the buyer really doesn't know it's fake then it's Mitutoyo's reputation that suffers.Really, the China calipers can be quite good. The iGaging models are good enough to be legit competition for Mitutoyo. They would never win (at their current quality level) when price is excluded but they are close enough that I think any shop could use them instead. That's the real competition for Mitutoyo, people buying pretty darn good calipers. To some extent I think it helps them that the current wave of $10 china specials are really crappy feeling. They look similar to the $20 jobs I got 8 years back but when you look at the finish grinds you can tell the old stuff is quite a bit better. If nothing else the quality of the latest HF $10 jobs might scare people away from the China calipers. I know it has made me avoid recommending them because I don't know which will have iGaging type build (my first generics did) vs current $10 build.Perhaps TESA/Brown and Sharpe and Sterrett are the ones that should be really worried. Mitutoyo is all but the default for buying a quality caliper. The price isn't too bad and no one would question the choice. Someone here recently bought some Starretts for the lab. I really want to ask why since they cost more than Mitutoyos and aren't any better.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 04:54:58 pm
content: Quote from: Robomeds on February 16, 2015, 04:48:36 pmHere's the weird thing. Why would you expect to get a Japanese product via China at a lower price than directly from Japan? (Do Mitutoyo calipers say "Made in Japan" on them? I suspect they do.)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 05:19:13 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 16, 2015, 04:54:58 pmMine does. They can still price it differently for different markets though, like buying American medicines from Canada.

author: Robomeds
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 16, 2015, 06:04:04 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on February 16, 2015, 04:54:58 pmNo idea but that doesn't stop Alie Express from listing them. You can find them for about $50 (less than half of the best prices I've found). One listing showed some good pictures that were clearly not of the real thing. You could see the poor quality and difference in the LCDs etc. They are probably as good as any of the $10 China calipers (good enough for many jobs) and maybe as good as the better ones.I took a look and didn't find any on ebay. That is the only listings appeared to be for prices that were higher than the Amazon price for the same calipers. I think ebay's policy on counterfeits is buyer gets a refund, seller does not get merchandise returned. So it actually give buyers an incentive to hunt down obvious counterfeits to get free stuff from dishonest sellers (or honest sellers who use bad suppliers). That has probably scared away many of the sellers of fake items.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2022, 03:33:43 am
content: This is an interestnig thread. I have an old one in a wood case that has many of the characteristics pointed out as fake in that video. Mine has features of both the real and fake ones according to that.