Apple apologizes for slowing down your iphones - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 10:10:14 pm
content: https://www.apple.com/iphone-battery-and-performance/"We’ve been hearing feedback from our customers about the way we handle performance for iPhones with older batteries and how we have communicated that process. We know that some of you feel Apple has let you down. We apologize. There’s been a lot of misunderstanding about this issue, so we would like to clarify and let you know about some changes we’re making.First and foremost, we have never — and would never — do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades.Our goal has always been to create products that our customers love, and making iPhones last as long as possible is an important part of that"We all knew the iPhones/iPads were going ever worse with every new iOS software update, but I wonder what do the apple fanboys have to say, if anything, other than scream "conspiracy theory"?The cheapest iPhone has a 1.8Ah battery IIANM, and any android phone of a similar price has about twice as much capacity (at least). Has Apple's bean counter department perhaps gone too far with that?

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 10:52:53 pm
content: Tell those people...no shit Sherlock! That's what battery saver apps do, they slow your clock speed to keep the CPU cooler.I think it's just a case of Apple being Crapple and their trying to hide everything from their customers came and bit them in the ass.They're probably pissed that they have to dish out life support for their older phones and just hope the people will buy their new overpriced crapphones and stop complaining. They've dug themselves in a hole, their batteries suck, and battery savers will ruin performance. Hopefully, they lose some customers who finally realize their phones are crap and no amount of software can fix them.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 11:23:15 pm
content: The argument "we want to extend the life of the battery" is flawed. What's the point of having a long life, if device is uselessly slow all that time?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 11:51:20 pm
content: I call bullshit on Apple's explanation.An older battery with higher internal resistance may sag, but cellphone TX current is much higher than the CPU+display.GSM band can hit 2A TX peak at 3.7V max transmit power. Compared to the CPU, this is much more current.Bet you guys lunch Apple also did this on iPadsWorse yet, Apple only 'fessed up after users found this slowing down stuff. $250 billion cash reserves. Somebody turn down the greed.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2018, 11:55:56 pm
content: I do have an iPhone 6+ (the large screen version) and I was fairly happy with it as long as I didn't take it out into the cold since the battery dies from 30% to zero instantly.So after 2.5 years I decided to give it a new battery (genuine, and the service report claimed the battery still had 87% capacity which I find hard to believe). The phone does all I want really, there is nothing the newer phones have or do that I feel I miss. All my sales pictures for example are made using the phone and I use it to answer work mails while commuting.Anyway, I tried to hold off with updates until important bugfixes etc were convincing enough. But mostly I regretted updating because I usually lost an app that wasn't updated anymore, and you can't downgrade the fw.With one of the last updates the phone has a very annoying delay on anything is does. Touch the messenger icon-> wait 5 seconds before app starts loading etc.I don't know if it's the apps that are updated and optimised for a more powerful phone or the fw that slows the phone down but it pisses me off.Especially since the phone actually has a battery saving mode to save battery if I choose to use it.So why force this stupid delay on me, make it an option that I can enable!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 12:20:11 am
content: As an option, who's going to turn that on and off manually?I find Apple products skimp on memory, so after a few iOS updates you have a slow, dead, turd of a product and are forced to buy new.Planned obsolescence.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 12:34:36 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 12:20:11 am"Apple may face criminal charges in France over iPhone slowdown due to planned obsolescence laws"http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/apple-lawsuit-phones-slow-france-planned-obsolescence-legal-challenge-crime-a8132371.html

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 12:40:09 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 12:20:11 amYup. And no software is gonna fix a failing battery. So they just forced some software that limits your CPU speed, to try and life support their crap untill hopefully you shill out and buy and new one. Since its Apple and they don't care about anything other than shutting up whistleblowers, they didn't add anything that actually checks your battery, and it just affects everyone anyway.Also, some Apple phones actually have decent memory, it's just that they don't allow expansion (no SD slot) so unlike with any other phone, when you run out of internal memory, you're just screwed.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 12:54:40 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 12:20:11 amI don't understand your point. Of course I turn battery saving on if I'm concerned about conserving battery. It's a one-click to kill all background data connections, GPS, apps etc. Very useful.Not sure about the memory thing, the firmware should handle that stuff. If a phone has insufficient memory to handle the features of a new firmware it should either deactivate those (probably not even compatible) features or simply stop providing updates to the phone. I don't expect this phone to last more than maybe 5-7 years in total. I think my phone has 1 GB RAM, the iPhone 10 has 3 GB? the others have 2 GB I think. So could be that app devs are expecting more memory available but I have no idea how the phone manages memory. So you could be right in assuming the RAM is an issue (but hey, my phone is now 5 models behind...)In terms of user storage, I've been happy with 128 GB which is mostly filled with music or pictures. Anything bigger is on google drive, dropbox, onedrive etc. But maybe that's just Finland having cheap data connections.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 01:05:01 am
content: Quote from: What Apple Really Thinks

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 02:33:36 am
content: People like Rossmann are the only thing keeping old Macs going though.Also...http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/apple-iphone-slowdown-lawsuits-sued-slow-old-models-california-new-york-illinois-a8130276.html

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 02:43:34 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 01, 2018, 11:51:20 pmThat's what I thought. It sounds like a load of BS.My iPad 2 now sits in the corner - one too many updates and its uselessly slow. A replacement sub $200 Lenovo tablet puts it to shame.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:04:19 am
content: People have been crying “planned obsolescence” since the dawn of software updates. That doesn’t make it true. The advancement of technology makes some of it incompatible with good performance on older hardware. Such is life.People have been lobbing this accusation at Apple for years and years, but the software update that introduced this deliberate throttling on phones with degraded batteries was only released a year ago. It literallycannotexplain prior complaints. In fact, the throttling is only on a specific set of models even with the update installed.Here is a rational analysis of the current situation, by someone who’s not even known for liking Apple. (The only mistakes he makes are the terminology around voltage vs current.)https://youtu.be/8k3TT-T-vyw

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:14:31 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 01, 2018, 11:51:20 pmUhhhh... the peak demand on the battery is thesumof all the components in use, not the single largest one among them. The current draw of the cellular radio can’t be throttled down (and have it work at all) so they throttle the thing that can be throttled without making it fail: the CPU and display.I would expect that a real-world task that would create worst-case-scenario current draw would be transmitting live video (so cellular modem transmitting, camera module toiling, and GPU compressing video) with GPS navigation going in the background. The only things youcanthrottle are the CPU and display.As for iPads, they’ve got much, much beefier batteries and haven’t been known to shut down spontaneously with degraded batteries, nor are they on Apple’s list of devices being throttled, nor have independent tests shown any such throttling. So I expect my free lunch, thanks!For sure — and on this EVERYONE agrees including us Apple fans — Apple screwed the pooch in not communicating this new throttling “feature” and not providing an opt-out.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:20:09 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 01, 2018, 11:23:15 pmThat’snotthe argument. The argument is:Degraded batteries have been causing sudden shutdowns under high current draw. To prevent sudden shutdowns and data loss, we are now throttling CPU on units with degraded batteries to ensure peak current demand doesn’t exceed the battery’s peak ability to supply current, causing excessive voltage sag.)

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:26:11 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 01, 2018, 11:23:15 pmIs it *uselessly* slow, though? I don't have an iDevice, and benchmark numbers don't mean much in terms of UX. There's certainly an amount of slowdown that's a fair tradeoff against rebooting under high utilization (IE, when you're probably trying to do something important!), but certainly not all users will agree on where that tradeoff should be made.

author: Neganur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:41:58 am
content: Quote from: ajb on January 02, 2018, 03:26:11 amin my case it does not make it useless, just annoying. It feels like "going back to a computer that doesn't have an SSD"-type of annoying.The sudden shutdowns have stopped with the new battery, that's worth far more to me

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:43:31 am
content: I thought the "slow down" is occurring for users outside of a phone call? Running games, basic apps, web browsing etc. that kind of thing.I can't see the CPU using that much power. This looks like the battery is simply worked hard. It is very compact 6S is 1,715 mAh, 6.91 WhAging Li-ion batteries, I'm not sure how much internal resistance goes up, or how much heat is generated in it.This is all still "hitting the fan" and is a serious misstep for Apple. The class-action law suits are just starting up.I'll buy lunch after the dust settles and the iPad is not found part of the same scheme to limit battery stress. My iPad battery gauge and a coulomb-meter tell me otherwise.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 04:20:25 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 03:43:31 amIf anything, I think their misstep was in not selling this as a feature -- "We've added power management features that will extend the useful life of older devices" or somesuch. Even so, people would have figured out that meant some loss of performance and would have still been upset if they couldn't at least turn that feature off. I expect there would have been some amount of fallout no matter how they handled this, but clearly trying to do this slyly has come back to bite them.I do wonder how sophisticated the throttling actually is--do they measure actual battery performance under load and adapt, or is it a fixed cap based on the age/cycle count of the battery?

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:05:29 am
content: NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.If you believe this to be in error, please contact the moderator involved.An optional additional explanation is:

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:12:58 am
content: This is yet another example of Apple telling the consumers what they want and how to use their devices, rather than the other way around. Unfortunately I have to use Apple devices at work and they are awful to work on. I'm yet to findanythinggood about them.The last time I used an Apple product which was ahead of its time or truly innovative would probably have to be the PowerPC's from the 1990's.Secure, stable, reliable and customisable have long ceased to be words which relate to Apple products, desktop or mobile. They are just toys.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:16:13 am
content: I am still on iPhone 5, it works just fine.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:44:45 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2018, 03:04:19 amAs much as I dislike Apple, their marketing, and their fanbase, I'm with this guy. They used the minimum possible battery capacity they could for size, and got stuck deciding between two unpleasant ways of dealing with aging batteries. Neither would have been seen as acceptable.Because they sell premium products, one obviously expects 'the best' but remember, we live in a world where people believe they can get longer battery life with weird "life hacks" and just expect their phone to provide the full specified battery for as long as they have their phone. This cannot be achieved with 'standard' use of a phone (average CPU load, calls, WIFI, almost daily charging).I understand why users feel cheated, but I believe this is based on false assumptions ("Apple intentionally slowed down their phones to force them to upgrade"). And then crying foul when someone questions this. The overreaction is silly. But then again, I'm a Samsung customer.. I'm trying to imagine what I would do if I found out Samsung would do the same, but I can't because my phone's battery life is still pretty good after two years - which I didn't expect, I think maybe I'm just lucky.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 07:32:54 am
content: All this battery issue has become a McGuffin for a serious (albeit unavoidable) issue.Software updates make the devices slower, not because of some evil plot. It's much simpler: Software gets more complex. With new, more powerful devices, manufacturers release software with more features that need more memory (more on this later). Also applications get bigger, hence costlier to run. To add insult to injury, websites have became insane loads of javascript crap that can kill the performance of almost everything.In the case of iOS 11 (and probably it has happened before) there were some serious bugs in the update process that somewhat hurt performance in certain devices. A backup - reset - restore cycle restored most of their original performance. Not all of course, due to the increased software complexity.That said I've been using an iPhone 4S for more than 5 years and I stayed up to date with all the software updates. It was perfectly usable (except for browsing newspapers which, as I said, load MBs of crap) although, of course, within reason. I didn't use apps such as Facebook or Twitter which are known battery/CPU/memory hogs of course nor games.In this thread (surprising in this forum!) there are people confusing memory with storage. And memory together with battery capacity is the limiting factor on mobile devices. The iPhone 4S had 512 MB of RAM memory and it was the state of the art at the time. The next model jumped to 1 GB.I am still using a 2009 Macbook Pro and a 2010 Mac Pro. That's a lot of years. Why don't they get obsolete so quickly? Well, the MBPro has 4 GB of memory. Plenty for lots of applications. But the story with mobile devices is different. The 4S had 512 MB, the 5 jumped to 1 GB (double the memory!), the 6S, SE and 7 have 2 GB of memory (again, doubled!) and the 7S and X have 3 GB (a 50% increase over the previous models).I imagine that the 2 GB models will take a longer time to have memory problems because the doubling memory capacity trend has probably ended. It makes much more sense to add 1 GB at a time if necessary. Also, 2 or 3 GB are a respectable memory size for a device that is not expected to be multitasking heavily with lots of heavy applications. But during the first ten years growth has been enormous. We'll see, I have just got an iPhone SE. Maybe I'll be cursing them in a year, who knows.Now, before accusing Apple of being idiots(*) or scamming their customers, how are the rest of the devices? What's the useful life of a competitor's phone? How much RAM (not flash storage) do the models from the same time have? Are Apple idiots manufacturing devices limited to 512 MB or 1 GB of RAM while the rest sport 16 GB of RAM? I don't think so!Actually they have behaved like idiots with this CPU throttling issue. And in this case all this bad press has been purely self inflicted. They should be more transparent with users. If only because of the time wasted by people affected by the slowdowns trying to diagnose the cause and doing all sorts of voodoo crap. It would have been much better to do what they have done now: be transparent, explain what and why you are doing it, and how to solve it. And I don't mean transparency just in the CPU throttling issue, but with OS update processes that, for some reason, can hurt performance seriously.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 09:00:30 am
content: Quote from: borjam on January 02, 2018, 07:32:54 amI'll have to disagree with you there. My last 3 or 4 Android phones have lasted several years and the ones I still have, still work and achieve reasonable battery life. Pre-smart phone days when I used Nokia phones between 1997 and say 2003-ish, those phones still work and even though their batteries are very old now, most of them still give me an hour or two.For today's day-to-day battery performance, I would expect to get at least a solid 12 hours usage out of a smart phone/battery that is 1 year old. I don't use a lot of power-hungry applications, but I'm constantly on it checking e-mails, messages etc... and even with that kind of usage, I get a good 20 hours out of my Samsung Galaxy S8 without any additional power management on at all. With battery saver options, I get double to triple that with the same sort of usage as above.As for RAM, that is something I do use a lot of, switching between applications (most of which still run in the background because I need them to). Of the 4GB of RAM available, I generally use about 3GB of it at any given moment (right now I have 500MB RAM free on my phone). Had that been an iPhone X, I would have had to have started closing applications to free up memory.We essentially carry computers in our pockets. Even 7-8 years ago when I built my Xeon desktop computer, I put 8GB RAM into it. These days, you'll be hard pressed finding even an entry level machine with less than 4GB.Are Apple idiots? No, I don't think so. Their customers on the other hand who keep going back, time and time again... well... that's another story. Apple appeal to a certain market now, long gone are the days where you see Apple computers on the desks of serious video production or graphic design companies or in the pockets of IT professionals. On the off-chance you do, it's probably because they've invested so much in the Apple "ecosystem" that it would be to costly and/or time consuming to replace.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 09:22:49 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 09:00:30 amPre smart phones were much simpler devices. Smart phones are computers.Quote"Closing applications" is nonsense voodoo. The state of idle applications is sent to flash when RAM is needed. What you do when you "close" them is to reset their state, which can be useful when an app is stuck due to some bug.QuoteYeah, the same argument of the brainless and clueless customers going back. For someone who has always been using Unix systems of various flavors Apple is still the best option. Yes, you can run Linux or FreeBSD. I used FreeBSD myself as my workstation OS for several years before switching to Mac OS X. But it still has its own problems.You would be amazed at how many old Unix diehards are using Mac OS X. And no, I'm not speaking about bubbling homone youngsters obsessed with Linux and "licenciology".

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 09:45:16 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 02, 2018, 09:26:29 amBoth are really opposite beasts. I use both and I am fine, although of course I don't expect my iPad to behave like my laptop.iOS devices are not "computers" as we understand them, but are more like appliances. I remember the kerfufle when the iPad was launched. Lots of peple hated it instantly even before seeing a physical unit. It was so "uncomputer"! Many of the early haters were what I call "alpha users", which is people who know how to do tricks with computers but have no real knowledge about them, although the consider themselves real experts(*). I think many of them were scared of grandpas/grandmas and toddlers being able to use a computer without their help.I remember when some friends presented their mother (80 years old, former mezzo soprano) with an iPad. She hadneverused a computer before. Within the next day she was able to access some websites and download music scores to read. And several years later she is still using it.This "appliance" character comes at a cost. There is none to tinker with because that kind of simplicity requires lots of restrictions to avoid difficult to diagnose problems. iOS users don't need to try different versions of device drivers or middleware. It should work. I am notsaying that it's even near perfect (and I have cursed at them because when things go really wrong you are almost hopeless) but for mostusers the experience is good.When they launched them they made some unpopular decisions (I remember how hard I laughed when they shown screenshots of newspaper websites with the "plugin needed" icon showing loud and clear that they wouldn't supports Adobe's incredingly crappy Flash. It was the right decision. I considered Flash a cancer since its very launch date.Depending on your circumstances all those tradeoffs can be unacceptable or not. For me it's fine. I don't need to be constantly poking at device driver or OS code. I also read nespapers or books, take notes, read my email, browse websites, draw diagrams, etc. For some kinds of tasks of course I would get insane if I was forced to use an iPad, but for others the iPad offers a more than reasonable experience.The latest I've got is the iPad Pro and with the keyboard it becomes an excellent highly portable ssh terminal to access Unix systems.(*) A friend of mine calls them "handbook computer scientists".

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 09:57:49 am
content: Quote from: borjam on January 02, 2018, 09:22:49 amAgain, I have to disagree, which is why I distinctly pointed out the fact that many of my applications aren't idle and that's on purpose. At least in Android I have granular control over these things. There are certain applications which I have changed the setting to "never sleep" because that's the behaviour I need to do what I want. But even if some of them are idle, they still use some RAM, not everything is committed to flash.Speaking of granular control, security is another place where Android is a step ahead of Apple. Your iPhone isn't as secure as you think it is.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:01:23 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 09:57:49 amSorry, I mean that it's voodoo on iOS. You can also authorize background activity on a per app basis. I have no idea about Android though.QuoteThat one is interesting. Could you elaborate please?

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:09:08 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 02, 2018, 10:04:28 amExcuse me? They certainly impose very strong restrictions and apps are vetted. But I unless I am terribly wrong most apps available for iOS are not written by Apple.QuoteExactly. That's why I wonder in which regard Android is more secure than iOS.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:21:08 am
content: Apple security essential relies on Apple checking the apps - once signed by apple there is little extra defense, mainly some security by obscurity.Android mainly tries to rely on the OS to limit the access of the APPs. If getting your apps from a reliable source you might get an extra "virus"-check similar to Apple's, tough usually less in depth. However by now Android security seems to be kind of broken to a large extend, so apps from the wild can be a real danger.In principle there is nothing really bad in extending battery usage by slowing down the phone - but Apple should have told the users that there battery is old and give them the option to choose from low speed or limited run-time. It is kind of normal that batteries stretched to end for highest capacity will not last very long - so the bigger fail on Apply might be that it is so hard and thus expensive to replace the battery.Maybe Apple tried to hide the fact that lots of batteries getting weak now - but this kind of failed big time.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:43:34 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on January 02, 2018, 10:21:08 amI'm afraid you are wrong. iOS has a very comprehensive security system based on sandboxing. I know that several years ago it was published that apps ran with superuser permissions, which caused very widespread alarm.Actually they run with the user id of the superuser, but that's irrelevant. A mobile device is not a multiuser computer. Or is it? But having the user id of the superuser doesn't mean that you have the same privileges. If you are curious about it I can recommend you to experiment with SE Linux or the FreeBSD equivalent (MAC subsystem) which allows you to create what I call a "toothless" superuser. It can have a uid of 0 but it won't be able to alter anything, and even will be prevented from reading files regardless of file permissions.We insist on using the outdated multiuser security model on our computers. That security model (for example the classical user/group division in Unix) was effective at preventing a user from accessing the assets of another user. But modern OSs, despite being based on multiuser operating systems could be more accurately described as "multi application" systems.If a booby trapped text document or image file (for example) can get access to other unrelated files in your computer the security system has failed miserably. And that's happening all the time. Most attacks don't need to achieve superuser/administrator status in order to be successful. You can send spam from a common user account. You can mine bitcoins from a common user account. You can search for documents and mail them back somewhere from a common user account.What they did is something very different. Each application runs in sandbox in which data from other applications just doesn't exist. Your web browser running malicious Javascript code can't just access your photos without supervision and upload them somewhere. The dialog asking to pick up a photo is not running as part of the web browser, but it's a trusted part of the operating system.In such a sandboxed environment applications can't just grab any file in the system unless you give it to them. To make a real world analogy, imagine that you have a pair of trousers that need mending and one of your neighbors happens to be a tailor. In a non OS operating system you would call the neighbor and tell him "hey, my green trousers need mending". The neighbor would enter your home without a front door, search for the green trousers and take them for mending. In a sandboxed OS you take your trousers, knock at the tailor's front door and give them to him instead.QuoteGoogle are not idiots at all (quite the contrary!). And I am sure that the capabilities of both in that regard (access control and sandboxing) are pretty similar although there are serious differences in the privacy oriented controls that have been covered in detail by blogs specializing on Android. But it's a mistake to think that iOS has no OS security system and they just rely on manual checking.However, there are plenty of security problems for which a technical solution does not exist and probably it will never do, like scams and somewhat malicious or shady practices. Can I create a "PhotoShop Plus" app on the Apple App Store? No I can't. Can I upload a photo editing app that will mine crypto currency for me? Probably not. Can I do it on the Google play store or any of the alternative ones? As far as I know, certainly.QuoteAgreed 100%. And don't forget that the issue was not only battery life, but shutdowns due to peak current consumption which is a much more serious issue. They have been utterly incompetent at transparency about the practice, though.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:00:28 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2018, 03:04:19 amWhat he says is not right IMO.If the phone shows 30% batt left it should have 30% batt left butIT DOES NOTif it can't cope. Full stop.So they've screwed up and put a battery too small to save some pennies in the most expensive phones on earth (because, you know, it's thinner, it's lighter, such a beautiful design (say that as if you were Jonathan Ive)).And then programmed a battery gauge that lies and still pretend it's your fault not theirs (you phone is old)?Sorry but no, sorry.If the batt gauge told the truth, these tiny batteries would barely make it till the end of the warranty, much less of course to the end of an AppleCare. That's why they try to disguise it as something else (aging battery/loss of capacity) when in fact the problem is simply they've screwed up the necessary batt capacity maths.No matter what the fanboys say, all sorts of bizarre explanations, even the cheapest chinese xiaomi can count watt hours properly, unlike Apple.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:04:04 am
content: Quote from: borjam on January 02, 2018, 10:01:23 amNope. Sorry. Feel free to PM me.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:09:18 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 02, 2018, 11:00:28 amThe problem is not battery capacity in mAh, but maximum peak current.QuoteMaybe they have screwed up by making the devices too thin and too light, I agree on that.QuoteAnyway, I insist. The slow down associated with new releases (and just time!) is a software problem. Especially if you browse the web. Do you know how many MB of data are downloaded whenever you visit the web page of a newspaper? Do you know how much Javascript code is executed?Have you tried to visit Youtube with an old computer? I mean, a computer from the times when Youtube videos had a really poor resolution such as 320x240. Try to watch one of the new videos on a computer from the early 2000'sSoftware gets more complex. Applications get more complex. Websites get more complex as well.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:11:05 am
content: Well this is a merry flamewar, devoid of facts...Just a note: both android an iOS use sandboxes. App Sandbox on iOS which is a kernel level MAC system. SELinux on Android which is a kernel level MAC system.The problem with Android security in comparison comes down to the following issues which are mainly policy rather than technical:1. Vendors don't support the hardware as long as Apple and abandon OS and driver patches leaving critical vulnerabilities unpatched.2. The Google Play store has little active moderation from Google in comparison to prevent bad behaviour.3. Android hardware architecture is different as is made necessary by the multi-vendored approach.4. Android permissions are decided up front as in "accept all permissions or go away" rather than on first request of the specific permission required. This plus careless manifests that require all permissions for a fart app result in data grabs.5. Device management story on iOS is far better.6. Android has no default full device encryption which can be relied upon.The big decider is when you get penetration test companies come into your company and the first thing they say is "get rid of android immediately". You start listening then. And that's not because they like iOS, it's because it's got a better security outcome. As I heard one guy, a reputable grey hat say, you've got to be a fucking idiot to trust an Android handset; it's an advertising, marketing and tracking device disguised as a utility knife.Look at the recent BlueBorne crapfest for example. Look at the permissions grabs for even a marginal utility torch app (thank fuck for the torch button in later Android versions).As for batteries, we have 200 iOS (6s, 7, 8 ) handsets and no complaints so far. Not one! Occasionally someone smashes one but they NEVER give us any trouble. Prior to this we had a mix of windows phone and Android handsets. The latter was a crapfest from hell. Literally a money sink. We had ONE handset which had a dodgy lightning connector and that was it, but that turned out to be physical damage and Apple swapped it out instantly no questions.TCO and security are important. iOS wins both hands down.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:19:24 am
content: Quote from: borjam on January 02, 2018, 11:09:18 amThe internal resistance of a 3Ah batt is always less than that of a 1.8Ah => at the same SoC can cope better with current peaks. Even doogee knows that.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:21:25 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 02, 2018, 11:19:24 amGrantedBut size and weight matter.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:24:42 am
content: Quote from: bd139 on January 02, 2018, 11:11:05 amSadly very true, but that's no longer so in the latest androids, I think.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:31:39 am
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 02, 2018, 11:24:42 amI wouldn't know to be honest. I haven't touched an Android handset since my handset was abandoned on 7. Problem is you can't put holes back in a sieve. You have to start with a bowl and add only the holes you need.Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 11:20:08 amI call bullshit unless there's facts on the table. Sorry. I know security theatre inside and out. If you have an embargoed vulnerability, then fair enough, but I doubt it. If you're aware of an architectural weakness or have active vulnerabilities that you are withholding, then fuck you.There's no qualification in "cyber security" really so that's moot. The guys we use are a combination of ex black hats, ex GCHQ and ex defence sector. We're not talking script kiddies here who run metasploit, nessus or kali but more CVE and bounty competitors. We use them for advisory positions, not specific test cases as we already have a couple of grey hats and script kiddies in the team who can run an external pen test and automate reporting for it.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 12:01:39 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 11:20:08 amThe problem here is face value.QuoteNevertheless that mention of Android is useless. I can accept that certain Android phone or at least a combination of manufacturerandsupplier can be reasonably secure provided that you know what you're doing. Because most Android phones are fire and forget fodder sold at bargain basement prices which will get no software updates, no support, and which even have a poorly botched release of Android. I also mention suppliers because phones sold by mobile operators are usually heavily tampered with. Again, most will never get software updates and, to make it worse, will be loaded with crapware for which the mobile operator has been paid.Regarding the "know what you are doing", well, what about normal users? With most Android phones they are just cannon fodder. Or what's it with the silly permissions issues mentioned? With iOS not so much.Now, if you mean

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 02:15:25 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 02, 2018, 11:19:24 amAnd thats the point. Not sure if you're arguing for or against Apples methods here, but it seems you're on the side of that youtube guy.As cells age, their internal resistance goes up. When new, the internal resistance is low enough for the battery voltage to remain above cut-off during periods of high CPU load even when the remaining charge is relatively low. We can all agree on this. Apple were torn between allowing phones to regularly turn off when charge <30% during high loads, or, implement throttling which will slow the phone down (whether or not this is noticeable by the user, depends). You seem to be suggesting they upgrade the battery for higher capacity.. which is a silly idea as it would require a clumsy mounting, plus a bigger/heavier phone. The energy density of Apples batteries are no different from any other manufacturer - its just they tend to be smaller.Comparing this to other phones - many phones are larger, the s5/s6/s7/s8 for example, and as such can have a significantly larger battery, the this effect would take longer (in terms of battery life) to happen, but could possibly happen to any phone, given the right conditions (age of battery, general power usage, CPU throttling).Why has this thread moved into "security" ?

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 02:21:54 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on January 02, 2018, 02:15:25 pmAt some point there was criticism of the walled garden model.My fault in part, sorry.

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:52:46 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 12:20:11 amMe. It makes the battery last whole day with heavy usage in my 3+ years old phone with its original battery...Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: Naguissa
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 03:56:15 pm
content: Oh, also very useful a configurable threshold on automatic mode....Enviado desde mi Jolla mediante Tapatalk

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 04:11:44 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on January 02, 2018, 02:15:25 pmBecause every discussion of Apple invariably results in the Apple haters expounding on everything they hate about Apple, regardless of whether said criticism is grounded in reality or not.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 04:35:55 pm
content: I think you nailed it

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 05:14:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2018, 03:04:19 amThat was a good video, tooki. Thanks for sharing. I have several criticisms over Apple's practices but I agree with the guy this is not necessarily one of them.I guess the lesson learned is to better be open from the beginning and deal with the PR nightmare than to get caught and have an even worse PR crisis to solve.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 06:59:41 pm
content: Proof will be if Apple used battery temperature, usage history (depth of discharge) in their CPU underclocking algo.Compared to a "your battery is old" switch, based on age or number of cycles and their obsolecence strategy.Li-ion battery aging, it looks mainly that capacity degrades, and internal resistance increases.You have to know (life) depth of discharges, number of cycles, cell temperature and model the battery. There are many science papers out there.Then it occurred to me that this issue should also apply to electric cars? Waaa ma Tesla is slower

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:03:43 pm
content: We have a new opinion on the subject.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:31:07 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2018, 04:11:44 pmI'd like to think however on a forum such as this so far the criticism seems to have been well founded and factual.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 10:58:37 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on January 02, 2018, 06:59:41 pmThey went through the same thing last year:http://www.thedrive.com/tech/10070/tesla-explains-why-it-sometimes-limits-supercharger-charging-speedsConsumers expecting 100% performance over the life of the product when they have known wear out rates (that can be influenced by the user) is the problem here, choice is nice but thats not the style of iOS devices with their approach of hiding all the details and leaving the minimum needed to function (no distractions).

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:01:23 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 10:31:07 pmSeems a bit rich coming from your posts of "trust me, but I won't provide details" or this classic flaming opening:Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 06:12:58 amZero upsides at all? Surely the most balanced of opinions.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2018, 11:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on January 02, 2018, 02:15:25 pmNow they can't retrofit a bigger batt of course. The proper battery size is one that 1) can power the phone at low temps and 2) as cells age lasts less but can still power the phone at full chooch (without throttling). Clearly there's a design error here (too low mAh rating) and the proof is that these batts can't cope at a SoC of 30%.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 12:04:11 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 02, 2018, 11:01:23 pmThe screens have nice color.But it is glossy, thus unusable.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 06:37:06 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 02, 2018, 11:01:23 pmI can only share my experiences just like everyone else here, surely I'm entitled to do that without going any further? I'm not about to start "proving" my qualifications on a public forum such as this for several reasons, but the primary reason is that you aren't privy to that information. I'm not the sort of person who tries to prove himself to complete strangers, I have no need.Quote from: Someone on January 02, 2018, 11:01:23 pmAgain, my opinion? I can name several devices which look, feel, perform, sound, smell, taste better. You obviously disagree and you have every right to. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. Why must I try to "balance" my negative experience with Apple mobile devices with a positive one just to please the Apple lovers out there? You're basically saying my opinion or experiences aren't valid (or somewhat less valid) because they don't coincide with yours. I stopped thinking like that in high school.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 08:06:51 am
content: I think the internet goes on the policy of “shit, or get off the pot”. We don’t see any shit.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 09:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 03, 2018, 06:37:06 amBecause you state, and now try to back up the statement that:Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 06:12:58 amIf you're required to use them for work then get on with it, saying that there are zero good aspects to them is clearly impossible unless you are going to make comparisons to something else which is superior...When people are forced to use something all the problems are blown out of proportion and they fail to see the good features or aspects, suddenly when they have choice all the negative aspects of their choice can be dismissed or ignored. This happens time and time again in workplaces and I happen to work with employers that let the employees choose their own platforms, then every person gets to make their own balance of whats important to them and what will work.Its particularly grating when you then come out with the everything is ok alarm:Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 10:31:07 pmDespite that this is thread is clearly full of unfactual and unfounded apple hating and you specifically are not adding any facts that we can consider how important they are to us.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 10:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 02, 2018, 05:14:09 pmI'm an Apple fan and I openly criticize Apple regularly, because though I do think they're better on the whole, there are things that drive me nuts, too.Quote from: rsjsouza on January 02, 2018, 05:14:09 pmYou can say that again!!! I'm baffled as to how they could make this big a PR blunder. I mean, given the ongoing rumors of deliberate slowdowns in the name of planned obsolescence, for years and years, what did theythinkpeople would think once this came to light???!? It's not a smoking gun, but from a distance it sure looks like one, especially for those who are looking for smoke.Quote from: Halcyon on January 02, 2018, 10:31:07 pmThis particular thread has been relatively civil. But other threads here on eevblog are just as full of fantasy-based, clickbait-driven vitriol as the world in general. (And if anything, slanted a bit Apple-hostile, due to the very real issue of most engineering applications not existing for Mac, and many nerds'/geeks' belief that "real nerds/geeks" use a "real OS" like Linux or Windows.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 10:06:41 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 02, 2018, 11:35:06 pmA reasonable argument. (Other than that it's not the mAh rating that's at issue, but rather the current capability, which is not necessarily directly related.) Presumably the predicted aging characteristics haven't matched up with the real-world ones. Or there's more variability in the aging than expected.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 03, 2018, 10:56:04 pm
content: One thing I have never understood about the blind apple haters (reasonable, fact based criticism is fine with me) is how they say the following:# Apple hardware/software is complete junk# Apple hardware is overpriced# Morons buy it because of marketing.If these things were true, how come Apple has figured out how to sell junk to idiots for very high prices with a relatively modest marketing budget compared to other companies of their size?A phone is something that is very important to most people’s lives. Why would they spend more to get a worse experience?It seems to me that the bulk of the Apple haters make the mistake of extrapolating their particular desires and needs to the whole phone buying population. Most people don’t give a shit about the things you care about.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 12:12:22 am
content: I think it goes like this.There are always three classes of interactions with computers:1. The machine has to compromise to my requirements (Android, Windows pre 10).2. We meet in the middle and both make some compromises (iOS, MacOS, Windows 10+, ChromeOS)3. I have to compromise for the machine (PalmOS/Blackberry/WinCE/Windows phone).Groups #1 and #2 hate each other because of the sheer amount of marketing that goes into each position and the fact that humans are competitive. But look at the direction everything is going (windows UWP and store model as an example). #3 is dead. #1 as a concept is dying and I'm not going to die with it.Linux/BSD etc sits firmly in all camps depending on how bothered you are when you have a problem to solve

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 12:29:03 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 03, 2018, 10:06:41 pmThe current capability is directly proportional to the mAh rating. E.g., put two identical batteries in parallel and you've got 1/2 the internal resistance and twice the mAh. Or, make a batt that has (say) 10 cm2 internally (active surface), now make another twice as big (20 cm2) and it will have 1/2 the internal resistance and twice the mAh.They've made a mistake: their maths are wrong.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 12:35:08 am
content: The stupid thing is they could have avoided this whole controversy with transparency. It's perfectly reasonable to cap the CPU speed when operating from an aging battery that cannot supply adequate current. When doing that though there should be a notification somewhere that the CPU speed is being capped due to the battery being worn out.I used my old iPhone 4 for over 4 years and I did replace the battery once. As far as I know it did not have the throttle feature and when the battery got tired the phone would simply shut off instantly if I tried launching one of the more CPU intensive apps when the charge level was below about 40%. $10 later I had a new battery that took only a few minutes to install, I don't know why everyone seems to think you have to pay Apple a fortune to have an iphone battery replaced.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:09:51 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 12:35:08 amYep. EVERYONE is in agreement on this.Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 12:35:08 amThe throttling is only on iPhone 6/6+, 6S/6S+, and SE when updated to iOS 10.2.1 or later, and iPhone 7/7+ on iOS 11.2 or later. Definitely not present in iPhone 4 or 4S. (My 4S did the sudden shutdown in the cold after it reached 2 or 3 years of age. At around 20% it'd just shut down.)Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 12:35:08 amBecause that doesn't fit the OMG APPLE IS EVIL narrative. (And frankly, I didn't even consider Apple's original battery service to be unreasonably priced.)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:19:44 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2018, 01:09:51 amHave not noticed on my iPhone 5 either.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:21:27 am
content: I'm not an Apple guy but I found the iPhone was the one that sucked the least and met my critera of a small yet reasonably capable phone. As far as I'm concerned there are no really good smartphones, it's all various levels of suck. I also haven't found them to be all that expensive, with both that I've purchased I simply waited until the new models were released and then bought the previous model at half price. It's absurd to me how rapidly people replace phones, 4 years is the soonest I've ever replaced one and it was still in nearly new condition, it was just getting hopelessly outdated due to all the bloat in apps and websites. If not for that I could have happily kept using it for a decade, which is of course the dilemma for manufactures.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:28:44 am
content: My iPhone 5 is clean as a nude virgin, compare to a Samsung Galaxy Android phone that I did try to like, but it did not happen because the Samsung was bloated beyond imagination. The number of settings in it was ridiculous. I went back to the simplicity of the 5.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:40:59 am
content: I don't want to go too far off topic here but I sit in different camps depending on what the device is. For a PC that I tinker with all the time the iPhone model is absolutely unacceptable and the Win10/Android model is only marginally more acceptable in that at least it's possible to crack the thing open and tweak it to my needs. With a phone though it's something I rely on having available every day, it's imperative that it just works, I don't need or want to tinker with it or hack it. There are certainly things about the iPhone that annoy me to no end, for example why on earth is Facebook, Twitter and other crap I don't use permanently integrated into the OS when they all have apps that can be installed if one desires? On the other hand, most of the guys I know with Android phones had to root them just to make them usable, cleaning out all the bloated cruft that came pre-installed. One of the guys I work with had some built in apps that were no longer supported, no longer worked due to external services they relied on and couldn't be deleted, they just sat there burning up battery life and filling the logs with errors. How stupid is that.The whole concept of included apps that cannot be deleted or at the very least completely hidden and disabled is something I find infuriating and something shared across all mobile platforms.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 02:14:49 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 01:40:59 amThis is precisely why iOS is locked down super tight, and macOS is not.FYI, I think your iOS knowledge is a smidgen outdated:Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 01:40:59 amThe OS-level integration of FB and twitter (and a few others) was ripped out in iOS 11, since iOS 11 now has a strong API for sharing extensions.Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 01:40:59 amiOS 10 (IIRC) added the ability to delete nearly all the included apps (including calendar, mail, reminders, weather, stocks, music, itunes store, mail, notes) and reinstall them later from the App Store if desired. As best I can tell, the exceptions are Safari, Settings, Camera, Photos, Clock, Phone, Messages, Wallet, and Health. (And the App Store, obviously.)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 02:35:34 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 04, 2018, 01:40:59 amBecause per Jobs' biography book, he was often seen on campus with Zukerman (or whatever that facebook moron last name is).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 02:49:18 am
content: Quote from: Bud on January 04, 2018, 02:35:34 amErr, no.I have that book, and I just checked it: Zuckerberg is mentioned a whopping three times. None of those mentions describes them being friends, nor describes Zuckerberg being on the Apple campus. (I'm sure Zuckerberg did visit the Apple campus, but it was not mentioned in the book. Never mind any suggestion of them being BFFs.)The reason Facebook (and a bunch of other services) were integrated was to make sharing easy, since at the time, iOS didn't have an OS-level sharing mechanism. Now it does, and they tore the proprietary integration right out. (As I already explained in my post just above.)

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 03:08:34 am
content: Yes it then was in the audio book, not in the printed book. Can't remember what source but that certainly was said.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 06:22:13 am
content: My iOS knowledge is a tad outdated because I don't have 11. My phone came with 10.2 and I have the Apple update server blocked on my router to freeze my devices with the OS they came with. I know too many people who had their iOS devices update to the latest version and become significantly slower or in a couple cases completely unusable so now I have a policy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".Frankly I've lost all of the inherent trust I once had in software updates having been burned multiple times. I know it goes counter to the current culture but I don't update anything anymore without carefully vetting the update in question. Yes there are potential security risks but so far I've never been bitten by one, IMHO the cure is worse than the disease.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 07:13:16 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 03, 2018, 09:15:55 pmWell, no, it's not clearly impossible as that is my genuine opinion (see below for the clarification you seem to be craving). My primary work phone is actually an Android and whilst it's not the phone I would personally purchase myself, it is orders of magnitude better than the Apple counterparts in many ways. It seems if I made the same comment about a [insert brand of Android phone here], you wouldn't be making such a fuss about what is essentially myopinion. As I said earlier, I'm entitled to mine just as you are entitled to yours. You don't see me taking offence to the fact that you seem to love your Apple devices.Quote from: Someone on January 03, 2018, 09:15:55 pmThankfully this is not what is happening in my case, but yes, I can see how some people would react.Now onto my biggest gripes with Apple iPhone's (I'll keep it short as I could almost write a short novel):PHYSICAL DESIGN - I see a higher proportion of smashed screens on Apple products than any other, even considering that Android phones outnumber Apple in Australia. Visually they are also kind of ugly (once again, myopinion). The new iPhone X isn't too bad however and looks more like Samsung handsets, but even with the iPhone X, the buldging out of the camera is more of a hindrance. I've also seen enough iPhone 6 and 6 Plus's which have faulty digitisers and sensors which basically renders the phone unusable by randomly "pressing" buttons all over the screen (also known as "touch disease").SOFTWARE DESIGN - It's restrictive, very restrictive. You have no where near as many options to tweak system settings as you do on Android or indeed BlackBerry or Windows-based devices. I'll give you an example I ran into today: If your battery charge is below a certain percentage (I think it's around 20-30%), it forces the minimum screen sleep/lock time and doesn't allow you to change it until you charge your phone. So rather than given the user the option (which exists), it just locks you out. That's just one example in a long list.HARDWARE DESIGN - Compared to phones of the era, it's underspec'd. Arguably Apple users don't need the additional RAM. Also since as long as I remember their cameras were mediocre with many suffering from that green or purple "halo" right in the middle of the photo when exposed to bright scenes. Then of course the is the lack of expandable storage, how many major revisions of the iPhone are there? 15? Yet still no microSD card slot. Then there is the plethora of expensive Apple-branded adapters and cables (which aren't built that well to begin with) just so you can use your peripherals (headphones for example). Want to try and repair your iPhone? Instead of using common sized screws, they've mixed and matched different sizes, just to make sure they are extra painful to pull apart and get back together.APPLES ATTITUDE TOWARDS CONSUMERS - Remember "Antenna-gate", Apple's response was "You're holding your phone wrong". They changed their connector: "You can buy an adapter". Then they changed their connector again: "Here's another adapter"... and again... you guessed it, more adapters. Oh and you don't need a 3.5mm audio jack anymore, away with you! Now there is the latest battery issues (which have been brought up before), instead of giving the user power management options, they just do their own thing on the sly and not tell anyone.PRICE - They are bloody expensive for what you get. I can walk into a retail store and buy a brand new Samsung handset, which is more powerful, packs more memory, has more features and better software for $800. How much does the iPhone X cost? Almost double!As I said, I could go on, but this gives you some kind of an idea. If you think Apple are innovative, you can guess again. They stopped innovating long ago. Now they are just playing catch-up with all the other manufacturers who came out with features years before. Their market share is slipping and I can see why. I'm by no means a "Samsung fan boy" either. It just happens to be the phone I use at the moment. I liked my previous handsets just as much which include Nokia, Sony, Blackberry, LG, Motorola and back in the day O2 and HP iPaq's (and those are just the ones I still own and work, there are probably others I'm forgetting).I look forward to your rebuttal.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 07:45:22 am
content: Physical design. 200 iOS devices at hand. Same occurrence of smashed oness across our org. Most of the smashed ones you see in public I suspect are contract deals where the owner either can’t afford to get it fixed (could they afford it to start with you have to ask?) or hasn’t had the time yet. Personally I drop mine at least three times a week for the last year and it’s fine. I have the standard plastic bumper case.Software design. Notably I can’t find anything I care enough to try and customise out. File interchange is one thing people complain about but that’s a non issue with iOS 11.Hardware design. No microsd card for a reason: storage is bussed to the processor rather than through a restrictive SD card interface. Android SD (and WP) storage was just horrible for me. Slow, unreliable, poorly integrated. I bought a 128Gb handset though because I did fear the running out of space argument so I see where you are coming from. Headphones - yeah I see that. It would be nice to charge and listen to music but got to be honest the biggest turd for me is the earphones that ship with an iPhone 7 or greater won’t work with my MacBook Pro.Attitude. Bar removal of 3.5mm jack which is not something specific to Apple, you’re right.Price. Yeah they’re expensive but so am I and having something with no support network risks costing me money at some random point is a problem. I rely on the device to pay the bills. Plus you’re not getting advertising stuffed services with it which are subsidising the decide cost. When you buy one you’re getting eternal email, calendaring, contact management, document authoring, spreadsheets, file storage (to a limit). Tell me what hoops you have to jump through with android to block ads? iOS - install purify. I hate to use the line but privacy is the best feature.As for innovation, I don’t really want it. I want something which i know if anything goes wrong I can get it sorted that day without burning my workflow. I want something which basically keeps out of my way and does what I ask. After using every major mobile ecosystem, it’s not perfect but it’s closest to where I need to be.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 08:43:11 am
content: QuoteSoftware design is fine. If I need to tinker with a real Unix system I use the laptop or the desktop computer. If I am going to do "appliance" tasks such as browsing web pages or anything else, iPhone/iPad is great. My opinion of course.QuoteUnderspecced? I don't think so.CPUs are way ahead of the competition, reportedly.Memory: they aren't running a Java interpreter, unless I am terribly wrong iOS is much more efficient in memory usage. So that's comparing apples to oranges.QuoteI remember all the kerfufle about this. The responses were really funnyFirst, every antenna will be disrupted by your hand. I had an iPhone 4, the "antennagated" model, and it was perfectly fine. At that time I had a contract with the 3G operator with the least coverage and it still worked perfectly.QuoteWhich they kept for, how many years? Before adopting USB it was common practice among phone manufacturers to have connectorsunique to every model. So wny not USB? Because they do more stuff with it.QuoteYeah, capable of powerful blasts, no less! Now, seriously. High end Samsung phones are in the same price range as far as I know.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 09:57:55 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on January 04, 2018, 07:13:16 amNo need, anyone can make up their mind on their own from your description now which is a long way from "nothing good". It wouldn't have mattered what brand or product you were talking about but just throwing out non specific and all encompassing dismissal while simultaneously congratulating everyone for being polite and factual was just too funny to leave hanging. Seems you're still in the irrational hater camp and unable to realise there are upsides to most products even if they aren't upsidesfor youyou can still look and consider why things might be a benefit or desirable feature for others.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 10:31:39 am
content: Quote from: Someone on January 04, 2018, 09:57:55 amWe got there in the end. We do have something in common after all.Quote from: Someone on January 04, 2018, 09:57:55 amWhich is why from the start I quite overtly explained that this was myopinion.For meApple products have no benefit over others. As I said, my opinion is no less valid than yours. I also said Apple has a specific target audience, I get why people flock to their products. As for irrational, nothing is further from the truth. Again, you have youropinion(there's that word again) and I have mine. Let's leave it at that.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 11:23:13 am
content: There's a poll above, at the top. Vote please!

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 01:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on January 04, 2018, 11:23:13 amIt should allow multiple selections! :p I think Apple screwed up (should have been transparent about this from the start), and I think the battery is too small (I’ve been wishingfor yearsfor Apple to make (at least as an option!) a small-screen iPhone that’s thicker, but has 2-4 days battery instead of 0.75. The Plus models have much longer battery life, but I do not want the bigger screen.), and I still love Apple and do believe that its intentions are fundamentally good. (I worked for Apple for a while a decade ago, and it’s not a platitude that Apple really, truly cares about customers*, though it’s often the long game whose immediate steps don’t appear to be in the customers’ interest.)*Apple is selective about who it wants its customers to be. I don’t mean this in a bad way. But primarily, Apple expressly chooses not to chase after the low-margin low-end markets. Nor does it, for example, go after hardcore gamers. So those people sometimes feel ignored by Apple, not realizing that it’s a very deliberate decision.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 04:47:03 pm
content: Not everybody spends $1000 on an iPhone, in fact I don't personally know anyone who did. Mine were both ~$250 which is pretty much middle of the road smartphone pricing for any platform. What bothers me about Apple is more the stereotypical customers, the smug hipsters and fanbois, the weird cult-like crowd that line up for days outside the Apple store whenever a new product launches, that's weird. I have a similar attitude toward BMW, nice cars, but I don't like many of the sort of people who buy them.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2018, 05:29:42 pm
content: Yeah there are a few crazy people and dicks.This will cheer you up:

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 06:18:38 am
content: This whole topic makes me yawn, since I avoid smartphones as much as possible, and consider both Apple and Microsoft to be enemies of humankind. Planned obsolescence via deliberate software crippling of old models? Of course, it's in their corporate genes. Among many other horrible acts.And then the Intel processor generic security bug, with software workarounds resulting in up to 30% execution slowdown. Ha ha ha... Excellent.Anyway, some may find this interesting:https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/12/21/apple-admits-they-throttled-iphones-one-graph-tells-the-whole-story-of-why-they-are-slow/

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 07:44:35 am
content: I have no contract, I bought my iPhones free and clear, full retail price of $250 shortly after the new models came out so the price of the older generation dropped sharply. I pay $30 a month for "unlimited" voice/data/text, my plan is grandfathered in though, the current offering is $50/mo.Yes a lot of people pay more, so what? Just because they can't figure out how to get a deal doesn't mean it can't be done. If you don't feel compelled to have the latest and greatest you can get a good product for a reasonable price. You can pay around $1k for a high end iOS or Android phone if you want to but nobody has to.As for the next post if this topic bores you so much why did you feel compelled to chime in? Smartphones annoy me too but it's not the phones, it's people. The phones are a useful tool and these days a perfectly usable smartphone is easier to find and just as cheap as a basic feature phone. If you want one of those pretty much the only choices are catered toward seniors and very basic essentially disposable phones.

author: SparkyFX
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 10:28:29 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on January 05, 2018, 06:18:38 amAnd the crowd that has a problem with the distinction of what is new vs. what is old. Just cooking up old technology and selling it as new almost requires that the old stock must be measurably worse. Once both parts come from a single source there is always a risk that things will be staged to show better results.QuoteAnd it always confused me how an operating system keeps memory inside the processor separate from certain concurrently running programs besides pushing or popping stack and registers. Seems they found a way around it using the leftovers of speculative execution in the cache.Means that one needs to be able to run code on the machine beforehand for that to work, but I got no idea if it needs to run on the same core as well. Admittedly the problem is a hazard on multi user systems and even for a privately used machine, there are many holes circulating that enable remote code execution and privilige escalation.However, i wouldn´t buy the 30% figure as an overall loss of performance. Maybe it is 30% for code in the kernel ring 0 that does benefit from speculative execution (therefore not all code in a kernel), but usually you want to have a higher workload in the user mode instead of waiting for system calls, so it might only be a fraction of that - depending on the type of application. Maybe it is what the workaround costs in performance for a fraction of kernel code, because it seems it can be worked around in the compiler (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16066968).Which leads me to questions how the performance of a piece of code is calculated with such a feature in the processor or what this means for realtime systems. If code was only optimal by using such a feature, whats the point in not having a lookup table-like system in place and circumvent it running or cleaning leftovers this way? As far as i understand it, this might be active all the time, even when not intended or useful, so i wonder where the key areas are that need this workaround and how often they are called.

author: GeorgeOfTheJungle
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 12:14:19 pm
content: Quote from: SparkyFX on January 05, 2018, 10:28:29 amThe article at ars technica says this:"The impact of this will vary depending on the workload. Every time a program makes a call into the kernel—to read from disk, to send data to the network, to open a file, and so on—that call will be a little more expensive, since it will force the TLB to be flushed and the real kernel page table to be loaded. Programs that don't use the kernel much might see a hit of perhaps 2-3 percent—there's still some overhead because the kernel always has to run occasionally, to handle things like multitasking.But workloads that call into the kernel a ton will see much greater performance drop off. In a benchmark, a program that does virtually nothing other than call into the kernel saw its performance drop by about 50 percent; in other words, each call into the kernel took twice as long with the patch than it did without. Benchmarks that use Linux's loopback networking also see a big hit, such as 17 percent in this Postgres benchmark. Real database workloads using real networking should see lower impact, because with real networks, the overhead of calling into the kernel tends to be dominated by the overhead of using the actual network"

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 03:41:09 pm
content: See, I sit here still using a 5S. No touch problem. My battery still lasts all day. It has iOS 11.2 on it, and everything appearance-wise still works like it always did. Is it slower than the day I bought it? Who knows I didn't benchmark it then and if I benchmark it now I will have nothing to compare. Suffice to say that when I switch between apps it does so at a perfectly acceptable speed. I also don't keep dozens of apps open all the time, either.Underspec hardware? Apple's SoCs are some of the most powerful out there. The memory SEEMS light if you just like big numbers, but the architecture of iOS is completely different compared to Android. Android can seem choked even with 4GB RAM, and even that may seem tiny compared to the laptop I am typing this one which has 32GB! (not an Apple - I may use an iPhone but I can't stand OSX)And cameras - oh yeah Samsungs have lots more megapixels. More does not always mean better - the SIZE of those pixels matters too. Just cramming more megapixels in the sensor in general results in worse image quality, not better. A good example is my 5S vs my gf's Samsung S7. In well lit conditions, her pictures can be marginally better than mine. In more dim conditions, such as at concerts - she doesn't even bother any more, her pictures are always blurry because you have to hold the thing still for so long to get a decent exposure. I get some very nice pictures, every time.Storage - I've never had an issue with running out on any iDevice, and I never buy the top model. My 5S is a 32GB model and I still have over 10GB free, and the only reason it's that low is I haven't cleaned up and offloaded my photos recently. I had many ebooks, 3 emails accounts, and enough music to drive across the US without a repeat. To clarify, important photos are in locations other than just the phone, I just haven't taken the time lately to reconcile what I saved off on my backed up storage with what's still on the phone - but there's well over 5GB of pictures and videos that can mostly go because I've already saved copies of the ones I want.Yes, they should have said up front they would slow the system as the battery was no longer able to keep up, but slowing down functions with high peak draws still means th device is fully functional and retains a good battery life, which beats it just randomly dying for no real reason.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 09:21:09 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 04:35:22 amYou know Apple doesn't do carrier customized phones, right? (IMHO, Apple's biggest contribution to the mobile phone world was shattering the stronghold carriers had on the hardware.)Apple allows carriers to set up a Carrier Settings file, which any iPhone will automatically download/update when a SIM card for that carrier is inserted. It configures things for the carrier, and controls the availability of a few features, like tethering. And that is the extent to which a carrier can modify an iPhone's software.Quote from: TerraHertz on January 05, 2018, 06:18:38 amIgnoring the idiocy of believing in such "horrible acts", you do realize that Android isn't a Microsoft product, right?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 09:49:11 pm
content: Personally I think it should be illegal for any phone to be locked. If a company wants to sell a subsidized phone and require a contract fine, but the phone itself shouldn't be locked in any way.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2018, 10:16:43 pm
content: Giffgaff in the U.K. have the right sales model. It’s a personal loan for the handset rather than a contract. You pay monthly for the service but the handset is separate. The personal loan is cheaper than the carrier markup as well.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 12:03:16 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 05, 2018, 09:21:09 pmTooki, not in the US. The iPhone started completely locked to AT&T for three or four years and back then the chances of unlocking it were not quite easy for the common person. Yes, Apple manufactured the Hardware, but it entered the market by bending over to the carriers just like Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Motorola and Samsung.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 12:41:10 am
content: Quote from: james_s on January 05, 2018, 09:49:11 pmAgreed. Come to think of it, I don't think any carrier in Australia bothers any more (I could be wrong). I know Telstra don't lock phones they sell to their own network. It's a bit of a pointless exercise in my opinion since it costs the carrier more to support unlocking when customers request it. Their staff are better utilised for other things.It's just like software, if I buy it, I should be able to (and will) do whatever I want with it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 10:35:57 am
content: Little FYI for you guys trying to school me about iPhones: I’m not a casual user. I was working for Apple during the original iPhone launch, and follow them closely still.Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 09:44:45 pmSIM locks are not generally considered “customization”. For years, here in Europe, most phones were sold SIM locked, but with stock firmware. In contrast, in USA, carriers put in custom everything, from ringtones to splash screens to apps and various restrictions (such as removing features present in the stock firmware).Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 09:44:45 pmAgain, not something I consider a firmware customization. Apple makes a few different hardware versions for optimum radio compatibility with various networks, but those models aren’t specific to a particular carrier, as even your own descriptions show. Each carrier sells the hardware variant that best matches its network.Quote from: blueskull on January 05, 2018, 09:44:45 pmThat’s something that pissed many people off in USA, carriers selling locked phones regardless of contract. That said, you should have been able to ask T-Mo to unlock it, since it’s not under contract.Quote from: rsjsouza on January 06, 2018, 12:03:16 amSorry, you’re flat-out wrong. I worked the iPhone launch, dude. It was ATT-exclusive in USA, but not ATT-customized. The exact same phone with the exact same firmware was sold to other carriers in other countries. (Literally the only difference was the pre-programmed SIM lock, which again I do not consider a customization as such, the language on the box and instructions, and the included AC adapter to match the local socket.)I’m not suggesting, and this isn’t opinion: Apple changed the relationship between carrier and handset maker. Apple’s contract with ATT, if all the public statements/sources are to be believed, was that Steve Jobs approached Verizon (who said no) and then Cingular (which became ATT, and accepted) with the idea of the iPhone, and the contract said that Apple had full control over the entire design. Apple did not “bend over” at all. On the contrary, ATT bent over: it changed its voicemail system to support Visual Voicemail, built an entire new branch to its billing system to allow for the iPhone’s activation and plan selection, which took place entirely in iTunes, and added an entire separate call center for iPhone users.I think you guys have forgotten the extent to which carriers used to demand customized phones. Heck, on Android today you still have carriers throwing customized UIs and useless apps into phones, preventing users from upgrading Android even on models where the handset maker has released an Android update.In contrast, Apple releases one firmware/software build per hardware variant, period. Doesn’t matter where in the world you bought it, or from whom, Apple releases an update, and everyone with that model receives the same exact build. (It’s literally one download URL per hardware variant.) The carriers have ZERO control over this process.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 11:02:57 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 06, 2018, 10:48:13 amNo, it most certainly does not prove “biased love” — you may see that as a casual statement of fact, I see it as an accusation lobbed to justify dismissing my deep factual knowledge on the issue. It should be amply clear from my many comments about Apple in this thread (and in the forum in general) that I praise Apple where due, but also criticize harshly where due. (Mostly anti-Apple people think I’m an Apple “lover” simply because I call them out on bullshit when I see it, and people don’t like to be challenged. But I’m not gonna sit back quietly while they spread untruths. Some things are opinion, but when they state as “facts” things that are demonstrably incorrect, I’m gonna tell them. I’m simply a lover of factual accuracy.)I mentioned it because you two (especially rsjsouza) both seemed to be questioning my knowledge on the matter, but I’mextremelywell qualified to be speaking about it.Quote from: blueskull on January 06, 2018, 10:48:13 amThat’s crazy!! IMHO, it should be EITHER a SIM lock, but no early cancelation fee, or a cancelation fee but no SIM lock. That said, I could have sworn that on some Mac forums, I’d heard that T-Mo allowed instant unlock when full price was paid. But I don’t know where or when it was that I read that, so don’t hold me to it. But it might be worth pressing the issue.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 03:48:13 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2018, 10:35:57 amTechnicalities apart, it made very little difference for the regular user that had to be locked to a single operator during quite a lot of time after the purchase of their phone. Given that in the US there was only one carrier, it was quite similar to having an "carrier customized" phone by yhe common man.And no, you were not the only one working on this market at the time.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 04:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 06, 2018, 03:48:13 pmOf course it made a difference. All the carrier lock meant was that, as with every other damned phone back then, the phone was SIM locked for the whole contract (well, a bit longer). But ATT had NO control over what Apple did with the iPhone's hardware or software/firmware. This. Was. Huge. It meant no lock-in to ATT-specific services, no exclusion of apps ATT didn't want. Why is this so hard for you to understand???Quote from: rsjsouza on January 06, 2018, 03:48:13 pmI didn't say I was the only one. But you talked down to me as if I didn't know what I was talking about, but I most certainly do.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2018, 05:48:35 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 06, 2018, 10:35:57 amHow is that "talking down on you"? I would not do that. I was talking down on the company and its practices, but somehow you took it completely personal and started being condescending. Based on your posts, it is getting hard to dissociate you from your former employer. Have a nice day.

author: borjam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 02:12:33 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on January 06, 2018, 05:48:35 pmTooki is right. There is a lot of confusion around the term "customized".Nobody will dispute that there are SIM-locked phones. You get them on a contract, they can only be activated with a SIM linked to a certain operator. That's easy to understand and that has been going on all over the world. Not rocket scienceHowever, there is a huge difference between an operator issued iPhone and an operator issued phone from other manufacturers. It often begins with the packaging. When Apple was nogotiating with European operators there was rumor that Vodafone had refused because they wanted "their" iPhones inside the corporate Vodafone red box, as ever other phones Vodafone sold, and Apple said that it was a red line. You didn't even see the Apple iPhone packaging inside a red nox. No way.Same thing happened with the software inside the phone. I remember an operator issued Sony Ericsson phone I had before the iPhone. For "some reason" it was impossible to update the Google Maps app it had from Google's website. You were stuck to the "Vodafone customized" version included. Same for other programs, some of them quite similar to the bloatware you get with Windows PCs.Apple was the first mobile phone manufacturer to draw a red line with a simple principle: "The iPhone is an Apple product, not your product. Take it or not". And while the traditional mobile phone makers had the operators as their customers, Apple made it clear that operators were middlemen, dealers, and the end user was Apple's customer.You can like their practices or not, but it's difficult not to agree that this policy was good for end users. Had the carriers got what they wanted, you would have found iPhones in which Facetime would be banned for policy reasons, or maybe banned to use Whatsapp, Telegram and other alternative messaging systems, forcing the user to SMSs or some carrier backed service.Anyway, again. "Customized" is not the same as "SIM locked".

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:39:14 pm
content: Quote from: borjam on January 07, 2018, 02:12:33 pmSome (most?) people here don't remember the days of WAP and the pre-smartphone era when features came with monthly and/or usage prices and those pricing models continued right on as phones gained sophistication. One area where apple did work with the carriers was tethering, many early jailbreak and sideloading was solely for this feature.The cornerstone which the apple platform may be eroded on is net neutrality, all the services running over commoditised IP links could be throttled or blocked returning the control back to the carriers.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2018, 08:49:34 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on January 07, 2018, 08:39:14 pmWell, originally iPhones didn’t do tethering at all, regardless of carrier wishes. That was the genesis of the early jailbroken tethering apps. Once Apple did release tethering in iOS, it came with a bunch of Carrier Entitlements a carrier could set in their carrier settings, so that it can be blocked entirely or limited to customers paying a surcharge. (If the carrier settings say nothing, then it allows it, IIRC.) But at least the actual phone software isn’t customized, so switching the same phone to another carrier would enable it, if the new carrier allows it.I think FaceTime over cellular has a similar thing, though I don’t know off the top of my head any carriers that actually block it.(Interestingly, iPhones sold in the UAE do actually have FaceTime removed, on account of it being illegal there in some way or another. And since there isn’t a special build of iOS for UAE phones, I can only assume there’s a flag in the serial numbers or something that tells iOS to disable FaceTime on those units. So there’s a vibrant market in gray-imported units in UAE, since FaceTime will actually work there on iPhones brought in from elsewhere.)Quote from: Someone on January 07, 2018, 08:39:14 pmYep, sadly. But at least it wouldn’t be full control. And the ISPs/cell providers would have to realize, I suppose, that carrier-specific services (for example, video chat) are of little interest to customers precisely because not everyone we communicate with will be on the same carrier.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 09:36:38 am
content: FYI: The slowdown has been made optional ..Couldn't find a link on apple.com confirming this but:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42831507