Fake or real: How to turn off any TV using a lighter and a sheet of paper? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: akos_nemeth
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 04:32:08 pm
content: Hi All,Featured on Hackaday:http://hackaday.com/2017/02/07/faking-tv-remote-control-with-paper-and-lighter/A sheet of paper with the proper cuts acts as an IR remote using a lighter as the IR source.The video:The paper:https://www.docdroid.net/Vl7wvFO/universal-standy-signal.pdf.htmlI guess it is a little early april fools prank:There is no such thing as a universal standby signalOn the video when the TV is switched off, the standby light was not switched on -> somebody just unplugged the TVRegardsÁkos

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 04:38:04 pm
content: And no 38KHz modulation.Also the size of the flame would give a pretty fuzzy signal.I'd say 95% chance it's fake.

author: Ampera
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 06:02:31 pm
content: 110% pure grade baloney.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 08:33:40 pm
content: All of these videos like this are fake, they probably earn money getting people to watch them though.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 09:00:16 pm
content: Did any of you tried to reproduce it, or just assumed that it can't work and say it's fake without actually testing it?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 09:18:10 pm
content: We don't have to waste time trying to reproduce it to know that it's fake. If one knows just a little about IR remote controls it's obvious that this won't work.Also if you watch closely you'll see what is mentioned in another reply that the standby light doesn't come on when the TV is "magically" turned off. That means it was simply unplugged.

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 10:42:16 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 08, 2017, 09:18:10 pm"We know better because we say so, and that's FINAL"Oh, okay, righty ho.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 10:58:35 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 08, 2017, 09:18:10 pmActually, if you play it back in slow motion. You can see the standby light (I assume), briefly light up.I.e. It is likely it is unplugged or externally switched off (hence probably FAKED). Hence the brief standby light flash.Also by watching some of their other videos. One can get an idea on how "fake" or not they are.E.g. This completely obvious, 100% legit, anti-gravity spray. (Possible joke alert).Must be real, as you can see it on the video. I MUST buy some.

author: Len
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 08, 2017, 11:56:23 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on February 08, 2017, 10:42:16 pmNo, we know better because there is no evidence that it works (the video is obviously phony) and good reason to believe that it doesn't work (IR remotes use a modulated signal to avoid false triggering by fire, sunlight etc.).

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:02:08 am
content: It's little different than the free energy scams. Ok so fooling an IR remote receiver with light coming from fire does not violate any actual laws of the universe, but if one knows how the modulation works and one is familiar with the characteristics of firelight it's pretty easy to say with reasonable certainty that firelight is not going to trigger a remote receiver. If a random flicker did trigger a poorly designed receiver it is extraordinarily unlikely for it to repeatedly trigger the power toggle command rather than randomly triggering all sorts of different functions. Anyway the point is, with a little understanding of how things work, it's easy to look at a video like this and state with 99.999% certainty that it is fake and it won't work. If you want to try it, go right ahead, you don't have to take my word for it, I still know that I'm correct.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:22:28 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on February 08, 2017, 09:00:16 pmThis goes in the same category as those who believe they can unlock their car doors "remotely" by calling someone on their phone and getting them to hold the spare key fob to the phone and press the unlock button. No need to test it to know it's BS. (And yes, I know someone who swears black and blue that they did this once but couldn't reproduce it when challenged. I also have one of those audiophool friends who thinks the tried and tested science is wrong... I associate with some very odd people...hmmm...)

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:24:35 am
content: It comes from a channel called Viral Video LabEnough said.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:35:56 am
content: Quote from: anfang on February 08, 2017, 10:42:16 pmNo, we know better because we know how those things work. If you consider that modern IR remotes are DESIGNED explicitly to reject that kind of IR "signal" (by use of modulated carriers @ 38/40KHz) you would understand why it can be dismissed categorically. But ignorance of such details makes one incapable of accurately assessing the phenomenon. And people take advantage of the technically ignorant by posting such tripe and twaddle. Like the idiots who post things like getting free cable TV and even admit that it is a "joke" but won't take it down from YouTube because it has 14 million views. No. I am not going to link to it because it doesn't deserve any more view statistics.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:42:35 am
content: That and I have a woodstove with a glass door, and several antique oil lamps in the same room as my TV and I've never observed any interaction whatsoever between them so in a sense I have reproduced the conditions although not deliberately.IR remotes are specifically designed to reject interference and work under a very wide range of conditions. The only issue I've ever had with interference were some compact fluorescent lamps but those would jam the signal entirely, not issue false commands.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 01:02:37 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on February 08, 2017, 10:58:35 pmI gotta get myself a few cans of those anti-gravity spray. Looks awesome.Who said I can't climb K2. I can see the answer in that one little can of spray.

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 01:31:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2017, 12:24:35 amYa may be a wee little pipsqueak ma little man, but you're not daft are ye, bless you.

author: anfang
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 01:35:41 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 09, 2017, 12:35:56 amI have to agree with you actually, yeah - there's one particular guy who does this on YouTube who's name slips my mind (see, that's how little of an impression he made on me) who just posts utter baloney for the sake of it... WHY? Ah well, I suppose he's got a valid strategy there - he's testing people to see whether they'll actually ENGAGE their numb, dumbed-down grey matter enough to investigate his crap for themselves to prove it demonstrably false. Then again, why would you waste your time and energy on making utter bollocks? Seems to be a trend these days - milenials and "generation X" seem to have an a lower and lower threshold for the complete guff that will cause "amusement" -_-

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 12:20:53 pm
content: Its kind of like the video telling you how to unlock your car doors with a blast of air from a ball. It worked on one poorly designed car which did use a small air line to actuate the locks.In this case I remember some early tv remotes which were not modulated, they were simply a pulsing a LED. The time was shortly after the 'clicker' remotes. The remotes where simple two button, usually power and channel. Some at the time the channel would pulse a solenoid which would turn the channel knob even.So with the right IF's, i.e. IF you found one of those old TV's its possible.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 01:12:11 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on February 09, 2017, 01:35:41 amThioJoeBecause it's funny.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 02:46:59 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on February 09, 2017, 01:35:41 amIt is much simpler. More people viewing this BS => more income from the Youtube ads for the creator. And it is much easier and cheaper to produce this kind nonsense than quality content like Dave does. That's the main reason why there are so many of those "will it blend/microwave/cut/crush in a press" BS videos around as well.

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 03:06:34 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on February 08, 2017, 10:58:35 pmIs this the same spray that someone mistook for deodorant and floated to space?

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 03:35:28 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on February 09, 2017, 03:06:34 pmYes, EXACTLY right. That is why, in the picture, they are not fully clothed. As they had not finished getting dressed, before the terrible accident. Luckily they had their scuba diving tank with them, otherwise they would not have been able to breath easily.

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2017, 06:46:56 pm
content: Quote from: anfang on February 09, 2017, 01:35:41 amelectroboom?

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 09:52:26 pm
content: Quote from: MK14 on February 09, 2017, 03:35:28 pmShould I ask how this came to pass? Damn it I know I probably shouldn't...Edit: So I found it. Apparently it was big new before Trump came along.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/30/sex-doll-launched-into-space_n_4520493.html

author: Assafl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 10, 2017, 09:55:26 pm
content: Rereading the question - wouldn't putting a paper under a TV and lighting it turn the TV off (eventually)?I don't think it would work for turning it on - but I am pretty sure it will turn off....

author: gnif
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:27:33 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 08, 2017, 04:38:04 pmYet somehow it got published on HackADay... man I miss the good old days when that site was actually worth reading.http://hackaday.com/2017/02/07/faking-tv-remote-control-with-paper-and-lighter/

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:40:04 am
content: Just get aTV-B-Gone. They work great.I built one of the kits at the Noisebridge maker space while visiting SF several years ago and then had fun walking down Market St. turning off TVs in the display windows...

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:44:39 am
content: Quote from: gnif on February 12, 2017, 06:27:33 amYou could say that HackADay "sold out" to SupplyFrame.So now it is just another profit-center cog in a big corporate entity.SupplyFrame also owns Findchips which may sound familiar to EEVblog forum users.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 06:47:17 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on February 12, 2017, 06:44:39 amYes, Findchips/Supplyframe have advertised continuously on this forum since 2011They basically haven't touched Hack-A-Day though, looks exactly the same as it did years ago.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2017, 02:13:30 pm
content: Quote from: Assafl on February 10, 2017, 09:55:26 pmRodalco2007 does that quite regularly, and it is interesting just how much fire, smoke and explosions a CRT TV set can take before it stops working. Permanganate bombs, lighting a running set on fire, so much for fire retardant, they burn pretty well, and other interesting things he does to them, wasps and assorted electrics. A Belgium/Dutch Kiwi, he has a very interesting accent, totally unlike Dave, and totally fascinated with Infrastructure as well.

author: avrishuvorlaz
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 13, 2017, 01:31:38 am
content: This isflamin'marvellous, I haven't theremotestidea how he did that! Do you think he was watchingpaper view?Standbyfor the disclosure of this being a hoax... but then, some are easilyLED

author: akos_nemeth
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 11:04:35 pm
content: Now it is Hackaday official: 99.999% fake!Hackaday today published an exhaustive analysis of the paper and lighter remote concept inMythbusters style:http://hackaday.com/2017/02/20/hackbusting-can-you-fake-a-tv-remote-with-a-lighter-and-some-paper/The verdict is(like maybe there is an IR receiver IC with very badly implemented filter which can be fooled by emitting pulses without the 38Khz carrier)We know the video was fake, but would it be possible by using any mechanical device+an IR LED to emit a proper IR impulse which could be interpreted by a TV? Like rotating a drum with holes in it and an IR led in the middle to emit a 38Khz signal for switching off a TV?Ákos

author: samgab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2017, 11:12:49 pm
content: I guarantee I can turn off any TV using just a can full of gas and a handful of matches...

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:06:43 am
content: Not just implausible, but downright stupid, IMHO.Do people REALLY have nothing better to do with their time?

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 21, 2017, 02:10:31 am
content: Quote from: akos_nemeth on February 20, 2017, 11:04:35 pmSure, it's possible to do it mechanically, I can think of better things to do with my time but if you really want to give it a go I'd say put a DSO or logic analyzer across the LED in the remote and press the power button to capture the signal including the modulation. Then cut slots in a strip, drum or disk matching the pattern you recorded on the scope, it will probably have to be several thousand slots. Calculate the speed of rotation and spin the disk/drum you've made while shining an IR LED through it. It doesn't violate any laws of physics, it's just going to be tedious and require a whole lot more than a handful of slits cut in a sheet of paper.