Magnifying lamp (glass) for solder work 3D or 5D ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 06:19:44 pm
content: Hello - I'm in need of buying a so-called "magnifying lamp" which is essentially a magnifying glass with LED lights mounted on an adjustable frame like this one:https://modelisme.shop/Magnifying-lamp-with-clamp-foot-4037373777709That one comes with both 3D and 5D exchangeable lenses but I can only find 3D OR 5D fixed lens versions locally for safe delivery.Which one would be a safe bet for general purpose solder work which is mostly NON-SMD ? 3D or 5D (1.75x or 2.25x)?I know, I know - the best answer would be to check it before buying but it's not possible in my situation. I can only order it online and hope for the right choice.30 years ago I could easily solder 2.54 mm pin headers without any sight aids... not any longer. However - I still don't wear glasses as I get by without them for the majority of everyday tasks and only occasionally reach for a hand-help mag-glass to look at smallish things.EDIT: For clarification, the 3D and 5D are magnifications in diopters (US spelling, dioptres for GB), that is 3 diopters and 5 diopters. The actual magnification ratios are 1.75x and 2.25x correspondingly.

author: shapirus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 06:54:21 pm
content: Can you solder 2.54 mm * 1.75 = 4.45 mm joints without sight aids? What about 2.54 mm * 2.25 = 5.7 mm?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 07:41:00 pm
content: Quote from: VSV_electron on March 17, 2023, 06:19:44 pmActually, diopters relate to the focal length of the lens: the diopter value is the reciprocal of the focal length in meters.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 08:14:15 pm
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 17, 2023, 07:41:00 pmOh - you could be perfectly right but for me that's only an indication of the magnification factor that is directly asssociated with the diopters value in this particular case and that is what matters.The question remains however and I probably need to wait for someone who has some hands on experience with similar lenses.

author: LinuxHata
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 08:39:02 pm
content: After a long period of trying various ways, including factory made kits, I stopped on this DIY one and found it most practical (I do have 3D microscope as well, but I mostly use it for looking at UV erasable chips - just for fun).

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 08:56:31 pm
content: I have one similar to the one you link to, but it's got two lenses in one:The main lens is x3, and there's a smaller x10 lens inserted in the big lens. Great to work with.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 09:07:19 pm
content: I now use a DIY camera microscope as also suggested in the video above.Can be used for anything including very small SMD stuff.I built it around a recycled JVC camcorder (Full HD, 40x optical zoom), a Barlow lens, LED ring light and a desktop articulated arm - connected to a 14" FullHD LCD monitor.The camcorder has autofocus, I thought it would not work very well with the added Barlow lens, but it actually does, and it's extremely handy. No need to fiddle with any manual focus.The optical zoom is also very handy.Of course 1/ this solution is not cheap, unless you already have the camcorder and LCD monitor, and 2/ it certainly takes some training, but you definitely get used to working this way after a while.Now just telling what I personally use. If you start and don't even do SMD stuff, one of those magnifying lamps should be fine, and probably much easier to use.I'd go with a minimum of x3.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 09:15:23 pm
content: I have the following one. I solder down to 0603 SMD with this one without issues. I have started wearing glasses at the computer (+0.75, +1.25), but I'm fine with or without glasses with this magnifier:https://www.biltema.fi/toimisto---tekniikka/toimisto/toimistovalineet/tyopoydan-valaisimet/suurennuslasilla-varustettu-tyovalo-2000038434

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 09:17:13 pm
content: If it is just a simple lens or a pair of simple lenses you are placing before your eye(s) or glasses, then they are largely shortening the focal distance. I tried the pair I have used for through-hole and for larger SMD work and get a working distance range of 30~45cm. That averages out to 2.7 diopters which is within spitting distance of the pair's advertised 2.5X magnification.You might also try 1.5 diopter (0.67m f.d.) computer glasses which give a comfortable working distance.EDIT: Changedjusttolargely.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2023, 09:37:47 pm
content: So it sounds like the lens with 5 diopters at 2.25x would have an excessive magnification for my needs?That means the lens with 3 diopters at 1.75x is all I need?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2023, 01:36:56 am
content: I have a magnifier lamp similar to that. I much prefer reading glasses for up close work. I suggest you try a pair before spending money on the lamp. Unless of course you actually need it for lighting.

author: mrkev
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2023, 02:08:25 am
content: I've tried magnifying lamps, but I am not a fan of them, because You have to get pretty close to what you're working on and after a while, your back will hurt. I have something like this now:https://www.amazon.com.be/-/en/Professional-Soldering-Microscope-Magnification-Compatible/dp/B07G92FG7L/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=microscope+10x&qid=1679104994&s=industrial&sr=1-11

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2023, 08:21:02 am
content: A five diopter correction is going to bring you pretty close to the work and would make me hunch over.You may find it helpful to forget about magnification, which is often mostly advertising, and focus on your desired working distance. Get comfortable, as if you were building or repairing something, and measure the distance(s) from your eyes to the work. The reciprocal of those distances in meters will suggest the diopter correction you are after. I am not an optometrist, so I took those measurements to one and they worked out what may be the best possible correction. (German optometrists tend to be well trained.) In my case, it was +1.5, but it all depends on your eyes and age.If it turns out that you really need substantial magnification, you may likely first find true happiness with a binocular dental loupe or, as a fellow fan of them here has just alluded to – a stereo microscope.

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2023, 11:19:32 am
content: Get a genuine OptiVisor, available in various dioptries $35..60We also use the LED headlamps, from Duracell.The magnifying lights like Luxo are not as useful.Jon

author: Veketti
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2023, 02:04:08 pm
content: How much are you able to spend? If you have chance to spend around 370€ I'd highly recommend stereo microscope likethis.It's Chinese but with European warehouse. Nothing beats stereo microscope as you have no lag that is introduced with any usb microscopes etc. so the hand eye coordination really work. I can easily hand solder 10 pin MSOP package using one of these. Nowadays I do all the soldering under this even though I could see it without, it is just so good. Even though it is Chinese, the optical quality is super! It also has camera which you could use to have the image to display, but its quality is bad and don't even think about soldering with it due to lag. Your brain will never get used to the lag (or at least mine didn't). It is amazing how your brain can adjust your movement to so precise when looking through microscope. Unfortunately prices have gone up as I paid from mine around $300, two and a half years back.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 02:44:40 pm
content: As a matter of fact the Asian trinoc/binoc microscope from the Banggood which comes under various brands (and definitely made at the same factory) is within my reach at the moment.However, isn't that device out of proportion (sorry I hate the word 'overk...') for non-SMD, mostly DIP and through the hole solder work?

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 04:38:01 pm
content: If, as you wrote, that you still don't wear them, you may very well find a pair of prescription eyeglasses custom focused at your favored working distance may be all that you need.If I were in your shoes, I would take something I work on, hoof it to a good optometrist, and let them test your vision and discover your prescription. Once they have that, you can ask them to set it up in the fixture, shift it to focus for your working distance(s), and let you see how it works. It would not surprise me if they agree to the experiment, and not charge you for it, because of the likelihood of winning another customer.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 07:35:12 pm
content: Quote from: VSV_electron on March 23, 2023, 02:44:40 pmAre you sure you will enjoy soldering under a "dissecting" microscope? I have many hours driving dissecting microscopes and still choose my 2X glass headband magnifier for assembly.* If you can, try it before you buy it. Age is a factor. At my age, doing everything reasonable to steady my hands is important. Thus, I sit low with arms slightly raised on the table. That is the opposite of what is needed with the scopes being discussed here.*You can buy glasses in (+) diopters to fit your needs at any pharmacy or Walmart store without a prescription in the US.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 09:12:29 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 23, 2023, 07:35:12 pmYou were reading my thoughts on that: I was really hesitant to imagine myself soldering a 2.54 pin header to a 1602 LCD under the trinoc microscope that Veketti suggested above. While I can't any longer confidently work on this size of the pieces (the way I was able to approach them 30 years ago without any sight aids) I feel that for this purpose the 'dissecting' microscope as you called it is probably too much.I'm sure such a scope would be really useful for SMD work and for any SOP/QFP stuff. I'm not going to do lots of that, however - I've got couple dozen of SOP ICs that I indeed was going to solder to the SOP-to-DIP adapter plates.Do people buy these scopes mostly for really tiny stuff such as 0805/0603 Imperial and below or are they useful for anything larger?NOTE: I wasn't even considering the trinoc scope but since it was suggested by Veketti above that he uses it just for fun for a variety of soldering tasks even where it's application is not necessary I wonder if soldering under such a scope becomes addictive in a way.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 09:24:01 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on March 18, 2023, 01:36:56 amThat's "interesting", I would have thought of reading glasses for farsighted people, but not necessarily for people with "normal" vision to be used as magnifying glasses.I guess that should work, at least for relatively small magnification factors.I have tried magnifying glasses in the past - you know, the kind that is sometimes used by surgeons - but they tend to be very heavy and thus very uncomfortable (the pro ones really made for surgeons are probably much better in terms of comfort though, but pretty expensive.)

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2023, 10:33:02 pm
content: 1) I am 80 and have very little accomodation. That is, accomodation, as opposed to reaction to light, allows you to focus at shorter distances. Normally, one starts to lose accomodation at about age 45. That's why older people wear reading glasses (+ diopter). I keep 3 or four pairs of "reading" glasses: +2 for ordinary reading; +1.50 for computer monitor that is further away; and +2.5 to +3.0 for welding. Thankfully, they are cheap, and I have multiple pairs.2) I would distinguish "farsightedness" in young people from the effects of accommodation that older folks experience.3) "Nearsighted" people (those needing negative diopters when young) are more sensitive to the correction. In the US, one can buy "reading glasses" at many stores. Glasses to correct nearsightedness require a prescription.4) If your eyesight was effectively normal, a 2X visor will work fine. If you need closer work, wear reading glasses underneath. The problem with microscope oculars (eyepieces) is that they do not move with you. Even WF (widefield) large (e.g., 22mm) can be annoying to work with . The headvisor follows your head wherever you look. As an aside, I sometimes have to peek under it to get my soldering iron into its holder. But, I can pretty much do that by feel most of the time.5) Another problem with a microscope is that it requires your head to be quite a bit higher from the PCB you are soldering than a headvisor requires.* That results in your arms being lower. Jewelers' benches are usually quite high, because your control is better with your arms slightly raised on a bench.6) I do use my dissection microscope for photographs.7) Getting old is not for sissies.*EDIT: I am referring to relatively inexpensive ones on Amscope, etc. Very expensive ones can have the oculars at almost any height for the user, e.g., ones used in surgery.

author: donlisms
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 01:53:28 am
content: I use head-worn magnifiers, like glasses. These are cheap, fairly light weight if you get the right ones, have three LED brightness levels (or off), and come with a whole box full of interchangeable lenses. I like 'em. I use them for things other than soldering; the problem is my eyes, which I leave installed all the time.I also keep a 4x or 5x loupe handy, always. One of my single most-used tools, after the bench and chair.I found the stalk-mounted magnifier was always in the way, and always in the wrong place, and single-element optics just don't scale well in size. I'm not fond of all the red and blue fringe and general bad sharpness. The little head-worn lenses aren't so bad those ways.

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2023, 04:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 23, 2023, 10:33:02 pmFor those who wish to read about the age-related loss of accommodation, the technical term is "presbyopia", etymologically related to "presbyter" for "elder".Historically, many people misunderstand Milton's poem ending "New Presbyter is but Old Priest writ large".

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 12:55:37 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on March 24, 2023, 04:11:56 pmTim - I've never read Milton's poem ending "New Presbyter is but Old Priest writ large" and don't have a clue how to interpret that ending. Sounds weird.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 01:41:07 am
content: Quote from: Veketti on March 19, 2023, 02:04:08 pmI wonder who would win the battle of '...Your brain will never get used to the lag...' if you got into argument with this guy who insists that nothing beats a digital scope and he unconditionally prefers it over the optical stereo scope which gives him nothing but headache:He explains his choice here if you don't want to watch the whole video:https://youtu.be/NfkXitg5R4I?t=575

author: beatman
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 04:32:14 am
content: i use these very comfortable for smd troubleshot .https://www.amazon.com/ProsKit-MA-016-Personal-Headband-Magnifying/dp/B01ENBCE82

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 07:07:50 am
content: This is cheap and works excellent for me, even with reading glasses:https://www.newark.com/modelcraft/pop1763/headband-magnifier-w-4-lense/dp/69AC6364In addition, I added (distributed) lighting above my workbench and I measure 1000 Lux on the surface of my desk(measured after sunset ofcourse). This helps a lot.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 07:55:51 am
content: This untrained eye could not see any lag in the video made by the HDMI video/digital microscope enthusiast, at least from what I suppose can be resolved by the 30 frames per second camera that took the video of the microscope's video. I suspect the lag people suffer, is from trying to send video over USB – which has always been a challenge.Should having fun with the equipment be a consideration? I am periodically amazed by the details, the existence, of things I did not even know were there because of the hyper-stereoscopic magnification you get out of a stereo microscope.

author: VSV_electron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 01:30:27 pm
content: I've read some reviews of these headband wearable magnifiers and know that even at the smallest magnification which is 1.5x one's nose has to be close to the iron tip. Well, not quite but at 1.5x it's around 20 cm which I wouldn't call comfortable when soldering. Working at higher mags is really questionable since the working distance reduces down to 3 cm at the highest mag.Quote from: Karel on March 25, 2023, 07:07:50 am

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 02:14:23 pm
content: I do not find the situation is quite that bad. I think the 2·5X binocular, simple lens flip up headband I have is fairly comfortable for through hole and large component SMD work, using both solder and (taller) hot air tools. I just checked its working distance by reading the fine print on a potato soup can: 40 cm, a meter divided by 2·5.Much above that and I start a bending and a dodging.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 02:27:08 pm
content: You might use somethinglike thisif you need both working distance and telescopic magnification. These have become popular with dentists and are a big help. Zeiss probably still makes the best but they charge accordingly. I consider getting a pair but for that money, I could get a couple, very nice microscopes.For root canal work, you really want a dentist that uses a surgical stereo microscope.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2023, 03:05:43 pm
content: I can't resist. I knew a surgeon who practiced in the 1940's to early 1950's. He used the magnifier shown in the attachment. They give a decent working distance but are not particularly comfortable. I doubt you could touch anything made by Zeiss to do what you want that will be in your price range.

author: justaskin
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 01:11:59 am
content: "I use head-worn magnifiers, like glasses. These are cheap, fairly light weight if you get the right ones, have three LED brightness levels (or off), and come with a whole box full of interchangeable lenses. I like 'em. I use them for things other than soldering; the problem is my eyes, which I leave installed all the time.I also keep a 4x or 5x loupe handy, always. One of my single most-used tools, after the bench and chair."That's been my setup for a while.....but if one already wears prescription glasses, it's awkward to move between the magnifiers and regular specs.....

author: EPAIII
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 05:48:42 am
content: I did not read the whole thread and perhaps this is already a done thing, but for what it is worth:My eyes are not what they used to be and I do have a prescription from my eye doctor. I do not actually get it filled. Instead I go to the local drug (pharmacy) stores or places like WalMart where they have readers. I buy readers for my actual prescription power and also different values around that number. I can try the readers on in the store and see what distance they work best for. The cost of readers is nominal when compared to prescription eyeglasses so I can afford many pairs. I leave them around the house and in my vehicles with the powers that work best for different uses at those various locations. I even have a pair of DIY bi-focals that I am wearing now with lenses for up close and computer screen (intermediate) distance. None of the local optical shops would make them the way I did.What I am suggesting is that you can look in your local stores for readers and try them on. See what power works best for you at what you consider a comfortable working distance. You may even want to buy a pair or two to take home and try at your workbench. That way you can know before you order that viewing system you are talking about.I also have several visor style magnifiers with the dual power, flip up-down main lenses and an additional swivel magnifier for the right eye. I have multiple workbenches and have one at each. And then there are pocket magnifiers. I like the Hastings triplets and have three in my pocket at all times: 10X, 15X, and 20X. They have been invaluable during my professional career. Part of my point is, there is not one single magnification factor that is best for all purposes. Each of those different powers also has a different field of view and that can be important as well.PS: My eye doctor may not love my system, but she has not given me any reason to doubt that it is sound. Optical shops charge far, far too much for prescription eyeglasses.

author: metebalci
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 06:09:33 am
content: When I was looking for a solution to the same problem, I did not want to use anything mounted on my head. So I decided on a 2.3x (5 diopter) magnifying glass lamp. This is enough for me to work on the smallest things I can also handle. The most important for me was to find one with the highest possible working distance, and it decreases with magnification ratio. I also have a stereo microscope which I dont use for electronics, but after around 2-3x it seems to me a microscope is the best way to go.

author: armandine2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 03:30:50 pm
content: i too am still lookingto see what's on ee's benches - but didn't find a link to Fran's magnifier

author: Infraviolet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2023, 08:41:44 pm
content: This style of thing has worked for me down to SOIC and 0603 sizes:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnifying-Magnifier-Brightness-Dimmable-Adjustable/dp/B09FG2X9L7/You can have your nose right against it on the top side and have a board below ad still be at a comfortable focus if you really need to get that close.I couldn't imagine being comfortable with any sort of head mounted magnifier.