EEVblog #1363 - Solar FREAKIN' Roadways Gets NEW FUNDING! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 10:09:21 pm
content: Solar FREAKIN' Roadways has just raised over $1M by selling common stock in the company!AND has scored ANOTHER government contract!, this time from the Department of Defence!Solar FREAKIN' Aircraft Carriers!https://www.startengine.com/solar-roadways

author: JohnnyMalaria
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 10:28:06 pm
content: https://youtu.be/LQiOA7euaYA?t=46

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 10:30:24 pm
content: You have to wonder about the peeps, you know, private citizens who are pumping money into such things as an 'investment'. Not going the whole "fool and his money" rhetoric, but if and when this thing collapses, the fallout will result in stifling new rules for kickstarters going forward. And that's if a fallout isn't so big that it doesn't kill the kickstarter industry.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2021, 11:51:20 pm
content: This crap just won't stop.As long as governments keep investing in that, this won't collapse. Of course there are companies that keep at it: they know they will keep milking public money for at least a few more years.Why would you expect private citizens to stop investing when they see their governements inject millions in this?

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 12:29:39 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 04, 2021, 11:51:20 pmIf you think solar roadways are pointless what does that make creating and watching videos about them? Just out of curiosity I went onto YT and searched "eevblog solar roadways". They're obviously a perennial favourite.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 04:01:43 am
content: I like to see just how dumb the people are who try and make this pig fly.One day, someone will wake up to the reality - until then, we shouldn't shy away from examining the stupidity.The only hope I have is that all these efforts will eventually be seen as impractical - with the remote possibility that someone will be able to sell a more practical solution - of which a couple have materialised....i.e. Panels upoffthe road.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 09:37:23 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on January 05, 2021, 12:29:39 amEntertainment for engineers.And you can say the same for creating forum posts about making videos about solar roadways. It's tutles all the way down.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 10:25:52 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 04, 2021, 10:30:24 pmIt seems it is all SEC controlled under some Covid-19 relief regulations. You can't just go around and emit shares so there is not going to be any fallout! Everything is out in the open and people can judge for themselves whether the investment is worth it or not (in this case I'd say: not). However among the huge amounts of utter nonsense (*) I did spot a diversification: concrete cable ducts which run along the road (cable corridors). Ofcourse there is nothing really new here and it is over sold as usual but it can be an interesting new product nevertheless. It needs further investigation to figure out what the government contracts are actually about and what their goal is. Governments do provide contracts to allow companies to show their new products in field tests (usually requiring a high degree of production readiness). However these tests don't pay for the installation; only for the time & costs associated for setting up the tests (person hours and transportation costs). You can call these government contracts but it doesn't mean the government buys or endorses the product.* You have to be aware that Americans tend to hugely oversell their product. You need a really good BS filter to sort a few facts from a lot of fiction.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 11:01:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 05, 2021, 09:37:23 amAt this point, I think it doesn't have to make sense, because nobody cares.Bitcoin doesn't make sense. Art doesn't make sense. They proved that a monkey pulling levers makes better decisions than hedge fund executives.Honestly, these videos are not really entertaining for me, personally. Too long on a topic that has been discussed over and over again. Just my 2 cents.

author: max_torque
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 12:27:09 pm
content: I look forward to the engineering they are going to have to apply to prevent the arrestor hook from simply "depanneling" the deck when a plane lands....In case you've never seen an arrestor hook, they are rather intimidating things:An F-14 is cleared to carrier land at a total mass of 54,000 lb (24.5 tonnes) and travelling at around 130 kts (70 m/s) , that's 60 MJ of kinetic energy and ALL of it gets focused right on the end of that very sharp hook (in fact, it's worse than that, because immediately post touch down the engines are firewalled, so if the hook misses they are at full thrust to enable the plane to gain enough airspeed to take off again before it runs out of ship and goes for a little swim........)

author: grg183
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 12:27:42 pm
content: In my experience I've come across dozens of projects that are set-up to simply cash in research funds. The problem is that in order to get the funding it really doesn't matter what you are doing, as long as you can demonstrate that there is potential for innovation in what you are doing and that you are able to spend the money (and/or generate employment) on stuff that is somehow related to what you are doing they will happily give you the money. If you can spend it you'll get it and this is simply because there is generally X amount of money allocated to research and anything that is not spent is 'lost' which means the year after the money allocated to research will be smaller than X. I believe this concept applies practically worldwide. You have those who have genuinely good ideas and get a fraction of that X amount, the rest all goes to opportunists who set up startups or research projects just to get some of that money. However if there weren't those opportunists, the total money allocated to research would be far less! This is a stupid way of managing public funds but that's the way it works.On the other hand one must also recognize that there have been cases where what once appeared as a stupid idea ultimately turns into something useful, perhaps in a different form. It is also a fact that developing something new (no matter how useless) can lead to inventions and new solutions that are unrelated to the original project but are derived from work on parts of it. So discouraging research work outright just because it sounds stupid is not generally a good idea. Of course, throwing millions of dollars on a project that makes no sense on paper and has neither made any progress nor generated any other inventions in 10 years like this SFR is plain stupid - but it really is just one extreme case of a much much bigger global cash cow.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 01:43:01 pm
content: not about engineering, not about science. it political virtue signaling IMOI see that hyperloop videos are making a comeback. another bit of non existent tube train infrastructure after 6 yrs of research and development.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 02:08:44 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 05, 2021, 11:01:52 amTo the surprise of absolutely no one.People say the exact same thing about every one of the over dozen different types of videos that I do.It isguaranteedthat every single video and every single type and style of video I do will have X or XX percent of people who think it's a boring waste of time and I shouldn't do them.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 02:31:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 05, 2021, 02:08:44 pmSure, and you are perfectly entitled to make your Youtube cannel the way you like it.This is just feedback.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 03:21:14 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on January 05, 2021, 11:01:52 amI don't think they are meant to be "entertaining", but I could be wrong. That would probably be too much if all Dave was doing was videos about this, but this isn't the case. The merit I see is that he patiently *explains* why such and such project doesn't make sense, he doesn't just bluntly claim it doesn't. Surely for people already knowing this, you can just skip watching. But maybe, and I guess it's Dave's intention, some people who watch those videos actually didn't realize the concept was flawed from the start, and will have learned something.You wouldn't believe how many people - and yes, even educated ones, some even with engineering degrees - still think solar roadways are a good idea. I know quite a few.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 03:28:17 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 05, 2021, 03:21:14 pmI see it differently; very few -even the ones with engineering degrees- seem to recognize the flaws in Dave's reasoning. That is what worries me most. Nowadays it is all 'I've seen it on Youtube so it must be true'.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 08:41:28 pm
content: Pls can someone tell me its just a Black Ops to fund Money for there dirty work...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 11:21:25 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 05, 2021, 03:21:14 pmThis video was essentially a just a news update and me taking the piss out of it for entertainment. No point running numbers and debunking it again because I've already done that many times.Why bother in that case? Because huge numbers of people have been invested in this saga for almost 7 years now, and they like to know if anything new happens. Those who aren't interested can simply not watch.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2021, 11:22:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 05, 2021, 03:28:17 pmWoah, hang on. Are you claiming I'mwrongabout Solar Roadways?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 12:29:16 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 05, 2021, 11:22:15 pmThat's what I got from his answer too, and given his comments on another thread for another video on the same topic, I suspect he indeed thinks you're wrong and your reasoning is flawed, and not just that, but that it worries him that proper engineers would actually agree with you. If this is not what he meant, then maybe it's just a language issue.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 06:09:14 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on January 06, 2021, 12:29:16 amAnyone who has watched my videos will have seen that if I say the slightest thing wrong I'll be corrected within an hour of uploading the video. I actually use this near certainty to proof my videos, and have very occasionally pulled videos and redited if I've goofed so bad it can't be corrected in a comment.The only comments I get from fellow engineers about my solar roadways videos is that I'm being too generous in any assumptions and that it's much worse than I calculate! (which is deliberate debuning tactict I use actually)If nctnico think I'm wrong then he's welcome to start a new thread detailing exactly why I'm wrong, and I'll happily make a video responding to his claims.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 06:56:58 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 06, 2021, 06:09:14 amI'm still waiting for the hard evidence in your video showing how the structures holding up solar panels in Norwest are on the brink of immanent collapse.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1356-the-usa-finally-gets-solar-roadways!-lol!/msg3375472/#msg3375472

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 09:00:52 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on January 06, 2021, 06:56:58 amHuh?That's not Norwest

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 09:19:53 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 06, 2021, 09:00:52 amReply #12. In the other thread. Forum doesn't like the ! alongside / in thread titles me thinks.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 09:40:24 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 05, 2021, 11:22:15 pmDepending on which solar roadway company:Solar Frickin Roadways: probably notSolmove (German): probably notColas / Wattway (French): maybeSolar roadways (Dutch): maybeIMHO the first two just lack the engineering skills and funds to turn new technology into a product.However in general you have not convinced me that solar roadways are financially not viable. I'm not falling for the 'it's all a scam to scoop up government money'; that is pure conspiracy theorism which is just BS. Big companies are pouring serious money in solar roadways; these people aren't stupid. Another failure from your side is comparing the cost of experimental technology versus commercially available technology. Added to that your view is very single sided. Personally I'd rather see a more balanced / neutral report with both sides of the story. IOW: Where you allow the companies in question to comment on your findings and include these comments in your videos. That is journalism.For example: It seems Solar Frickin Roadways has scored some government contracts. Instead of labelling that as 'see how stupid governments are' (which to me is just another populistic and unfounded BS claim) it would have been much more interesting to figure out what these contracts actually are about. In case they are 'show and tell sessions' (which I think is the case) there should be some reports on what was the result of the tests performed. Likely there is some very interesting and (f)actual information in these reports. Based on that you can ask tough questions instead of being regarded as just another noisy nay-sayer by the solar roadway companies.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 10:38:18 am
content: Solar roadways is a tremendously stupid idea. There is no need to prove anything from first principle to see that.There is no need to prove electronics side at all.All you need is talk to people that are involved into road building (traffic and civil engineers and such) for them to tell you how that business is done.I have a good friend that does road signage, and in road related projects, even very sophisticated electronics cost is dwarfed by cost of building road and all related building cost. And that is concrete and asphalt. Making road from something that adds cost to it is unacceptable.Also, big problem with roads is maintenance. Replacing glass tiles all the time kills duty cycle of road in question. Also big no.In most urban areas there is a problem with free parking spaces. A solar parking that is fully covered with cars has 0 energy from sun. For parkings, a roof with solar panels is a good solution, because it gives cover and collects sun. Win-Win. In Alps, there are many sound walls (road going through residential areas), animal wals, and snow guard overhangs.. All good for solar installations..Nobody tested how it fares when snow plow runs over it going 40 km/h, or when heavy vehicles from an army run over it, or heavy machinery, or whatever. Or thousands of heavy trucks that shred roads like paper..Also panels get dirty, when dirt, snow and salt are on them they don't work, they had to put in abrasive layer on top so you don't drive on polished glass. That abrasive layer collects dirt, also tire marks are sticky and pitch black. After some time, glas is completely obstructed. So how are they going to clean that. With chemicals ? What about ecology...What happens when cargo falls of the trucks? What about salt and crushed stone for winter that is being dispensed on the road?What happens when you go over the stone, that suddenly transfers all energy of moving car to tiny area on the edge of the stone? What happens when there is an accident? Cars rolling over, sharp steel edges wedging at the edge of the tile, plowing through them like dirt.. Now it leaves a mark in the surface.. With glass all this would need expensive repairs.And on top of that, panels have less power per sq.meter (datasheets say so) and they are at wrong angle. That alone makes that installation not efficient. And also, even if the panels wouldn't be damaged all the time (which they would), they would need to be ALL replaced after 10-15 years, because solar panels degrade by design.So yeah, great idea. For people taking money from idiots, with built in job security....

author: M0HZH
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 11:30:45 am
content: My background is in Power Engineering, I've worked on solar projects and I also worked for a company that does road building & maintenance. It is my professional opinion that solar roadways are dumb.However.From any seemingly complicated and practically pointless technical endeavour there are useful byproducts, secondary inventions or developments that come out of the research. The space race gave us advanced photovoltaic technology, home insulation, cameras so tiny they could fit in a mobile phone and a stupid pen that writes in zero gravity. Group B rally racing throughout the 1980's is the reason we have 4WD, turbo-charging, ABS or multi-clutch gearboxes on our cars today.This is technology, spending millions on it will actually bring some benefit at some point. Unlike paying football players, the money is not entirely wasted.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 12:03:39 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 06, 2021, 09:40:24 amQuote of the year!

author: Jan Audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 03:46:56 pm
content: The best thing you can do is to call them on the phone before its to late.Might have less amusement, less laughing, so maybe better dont call them, its your tax money amerikans.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2021, 04:00:59 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on January 06, 2021, 09:40:24 amYou have not answered the question IMHO. You're still making claims without backing them up with any fact or figures."maybe, probably not, I'm not falling for, these people aren't stupid". Is that the core of your argumentation?

author: Clear as mud
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2021, 12:34:41 pm
content: Quote from: M0HZH on January 06, 2021, 11:30:45 amI wouldn't be surprised if there were some medical and other scientific advances that came from spending millions on professional sports.