Anyone Notice a Drop a Price Drop in Used Test Gear? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: TheRuler8510
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 05:27:59 am
content: Anyone Notice a Drop a Price Drop in Used Test Gear on eBay? It seems to be evenly spread around all different types.Also seems to go along with the economy and the oil price drop.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 06:05:20 am
content: Now is usually the time prices start to rise. School has started, Christmas is coming up. Lots of unexperienced buyers paying almost every price.If they are going down now the economy must be in real trouble. Or people did wise up

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:02:51 am
content: There were few big factories which were closed (Nokia), I think it drove the price down on certain products.

author: eurofox
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:33:00 am
content: Quote from: TheRuler8510 on October 20, 2014, 05:27:59 amYes, the last year price of second hand instruments really dropped.I know a guy who is living from sales of second hand instruments, I think he is close the ending this business right now.It start to be hard to sale second hand instruments for a decent price, this is my personal experience, on eBay I have a 100% rating

author: MK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:38:56 am
content: you still have all those silly prices on ebay, they have held the prices in the minds of some sellers, $1,000's for silly kit too, I want some of what they are smoking...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:40:08 am
content: Quote from: eurofox on October 20, 2014, 11:33:00 amMaybe the transfer of gear from businesses -> home users is plateauing.Or maybe it's the DS1054Z.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:51:15 am
content: Quote from: TheRuler8510 on October 20, 2014, 05:27:59 amI didn't notice a price drop. IMHO a lot of Ebay sellers keep asking grazy prices. I did notice new gear starts to be more attractive pricewise than used gear.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 11:55:28 am
content: Over what time scale are you talking about?Perhaps something to do with the lost cost test gearing coming out now?e.g. 5 years ago it was impossible to get a new scope under $800, or an arb gen under $1K, or a spectrum analyser under $5K etc.Now new test gear is just so cheap it's caused a lot of once valuable and highly sort after 2nd hand test gear now not very sort after at all.

author: pascal_sweden
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 12:15:55 pm
content: Quote from: eurofox on October 20, 2014, 11:33:00 amIs this a guy in Belgium? Does he sell Philips PE1542 power supplies at a good rate? =)

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 12:33:41 pm
content: In general I also noticed a drop in prices on ebay Germany, although the economy here is doing well.But some crazy sellers keep their prices high and don't sell.One guy was offering a (like new) Tektronix P6015A High Voltage probe for a price higher thanthe new list price and I asked him if he made a mistake and he said:"no, someone will buy it, even if the price seems high"So, I guess, as long as there are people who don't know better, high prices will be paid.Once in a while I get lucky with some broken equipment for a very low price.

author: TheRuler8510
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 12:51:55 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2014, 11:55:28 amIn general, I've been watching 20-30 year old HP equipment--also the actual selling prices rather than asking prices that may never sell. I have a bunch of stuff to sell, but I think it may pay to wait for some economic recovery rather then sell into this downturn.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 12:59:29 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2014, 11:55:28 amIthoughtyou said that funny...Pretty sure it's "sought-after"

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:02:32 pm
content: if prices drop any further I might have to do a real job

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 01:54:07 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 20, 2014, 11:55:28 amAgreed. In the last few years we have witnessed the beginnings of a mini revolution in the availability of decent (new) low cost test gear. eg from China or from small specialist companies.This is clearly driven by the availability (and versatility)of modern low cost RF or DSP chipsets that can deliver adequate performance from something that has a small size and low power requirements and low cost.By contrast, I have a lot of high end (big, heavy, thirsty, noisy) RF test gear here from the 1980s and 1990s that each would have cost a small fortune to buy new. Today, the prices are in freefall for stuff like this because people have an alternative choice. eg to buy new stuff that uses low cost modern tech with modern I/O for screen capture or logging/control. Also, because of the recent economic conditions, a lot of this older labgrade stuff is hitting the surplus markets from liquidation/auction sales.I try not to buy anything big or heavy now. Maybe one last 'big' high performance VNA from Agilent but everything else will be small and light and low power from now on

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 02:00:10 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on October 20, 2014, 01:54:07 pmPhysical size is a big issue with that old stuff. Anything with a glass tube in it is a non-starter for me.A few months ago somebody offered to give me a nice old analog scope but I turned him down because there's simply not enough room to use it here.

author: LaurenceW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 09:33:48 pm
content: Another angle on this. Whenever you see a piece of kit you like, but at a "starting from" price you don't, and a "Make me an Offer" option is on,go for it. I have recently bought test equipment for 25% off the "starting from" price. Often, the sellers just want to turn their stocks over. If you don't ask, you don't get. But ask, and you might!(terribly unbritish, mind)

author: PaulAm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 10:06:41 pm
content: Quite right on that. I recently got a nice deal on a Fluke 332b that way. They can say yes, no or counteroffer which you can choose to accept or not.Once I get a piece of equipment, I tend to stop looking at prices, but my impression is that, here in the US, prices have gone up a bit, at least for things like SAs and curve tracers. Scopes, probably no so much, although current prices on something like an HP 54645d don't look any cheaper than when I picked up mine

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2014, 10:40:23 pm
content: I think a lot depends on the price bracket. I've always limited my upper limit to about £1000 an item and I've only ever bought a few things up at this price. Most of my purchases are sub £150 and I've had some amazing bargains at this price level.But venture some way above the £1k price bracket and it does appear to me that RF test gear in the £5k to £12k bracket is in freefall. eg I've seen several 26GHz HP8563E spectrum analysers sell for £3k-£4k which was unthinkable a few years ago.There are some very nice VNAs from Agilent/KS that are now starting to freefall in price as they fall out of Agilent's repair/service support system. Very tempted to take the advice in the posts above and put in some low offers

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 05:30:13 am
content: I also noticed a price drop for used test equipment on ebay, although I don't think it is permanent. Prices always dropped during the main holiday season (June to Sept), just to increase again when closer to Xmas. However, this year the price drop seems to have been larger than in previous years, and recovery also seems to take longer. But I'm sure we'll eventually get there, and it looks like prices are already slowly increasing.There were a few suggestions that this might be related to the increase of new cheaper test equipment like the stuff from Rigol or Siglent. I don't think that has much to do with it. Of course these products put pressure on used entry level and low performance kit, but it won't have much impact on the prices of more advanced test equipment (at the end of the day it doesn't matter if new cheap 100MHz scopes are available when someone needs a 500MHz scope with advanced capabilities).This year there were some really good opportunities out there which allowed me to get a nice 3GHz scope plus some high frequency and differential active probes for relatively little money. I guess if someone is looking for better performance kit (than the Rigol/Siglent/whatever stuff) then now is the best time to look for some bargains.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 10:07:45 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on October 22, 2014, 05:30:13 amPersonally I have choosen to buy new Chinese equipment over buying used from Ebay several times now.

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:20:13 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 20, 2014, 02:00:10 pmYes, I agree. Space costs money unless you have a large shed or cellar for your home lab. I'm confined to a desk/bench so am prepared to pay more for smaller modern equipment - I couldn't physically accommodate most of the very nice older kit despite its good specs and low prices. I may be moving house soon and looking at prices near/in London I realise just how expensive space is (anything up to several thousand pounds a square foot and I'm not referring to pressure!)

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:25:02 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 22, 2014, 10:07:45 amWell, if you're satisfied with the typical Chinese new equipment (i.e. Rigol DS1000z, SIglent SDS2000) then I'd guess your requirements are low enough that you probably haven't looked at more advanced kit anyways.However, the fact that Rigol has come out with a very cheap 4 channel scope (DS1000z) doesn't matter much when you need say a 500MHz scope which provides sufficient sample rates on all channels. Or say you only need 200MHz but more advanced maths and measurement capabilities than what is found on chinese scopes. Buying Chinese isn't an option in these cases.New China kit predominantly puts pressure on used low end kit like 100 to 200MHz 2ch scopes, and the new China kit really has become good enough that an used instrument would need to be a lot cheaper (or free) to be even worth considering. That however doesn't necessarily translate to used higher end equipment for which there's no China equivalent.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:28:52 am
content: Quote from: jpb on October 22, 2014, 11:20:13 amThat is true in some cases, however there's also "older" kit which isn't *that* old and which isn't necessarily much larger in size than a current counterpart."Older" doesn't necessarily mean getting a coffin-sized device from the 50's.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 12:02:23 pm
content: What I've noticed on ebay over the last year, is that things I put in my watch list almost never sell. I watch a lot of items that I wouldn't consider buying for myself, just to see what they go for. The feeling that there's almost no spare cash in most people's pockets atm fits with things I read in other contexts, such as non-maintream economics analysis. A lot of which is along the lines of 'massive economic collapse already underway, entire global banking system technically insolvent, debts mathematically unpayable, systemic collapse, fiat failure, derivatives blow-up, fundamentally broken system, blah blah...'. It would all be kinda worrying, if I actually _had_ significant money to worry about. As it is I enjoy a kind of abstract distant observer state, in which it's all just more lols.Anyway... about 'make an offer' - For items above $200 I typically make an initial offer of 50% of list price. Sometimes sellers will accept, or at least close to that! Which tells you a lot about their pricing strategy. Or perhaps their desperation, or both.As someone with enough space for 'big, heavy. noisy' once-was top-end test gear, the falling prices make me happy. The lower the better. I still don't have a decent spectrum analyzer, or network analyzer.I wish prices on plugins for the HP 83480A Digital communications analyzer would hurry up and plummet. Whhhyyyy are they so expensive still?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/comments-on-the-hp-83480a-digital-communication-analyzer/

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 03:00:19 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on October 22, 2014, 11:25:02 amRegarding the SDS2024 I bought: the alternatives where a used Tektronix TDS3000 or TDS5000 series. But those have short memories, no decoding, no logic inputs, no USB. I do have an old TDS510A which goes to 500MHz so the high frequency stuff is covered as well.Same goes for the signal generator I bought a couple of years ago. I was looking at one from Tektronix which had the same specs but the seller didn't want to match the price Siglent charges for a new one so I bought the Siglent. For me the bottom line is value for money.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 03:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on October 22, 2014, 12:02:23 pmYikes, well there go my dreams.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:04:28 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 22, 2014, 03:00:19 pmWell, the TDS3000 is a very old design with specs that were already poor 10 years ago, so it's not surprising that you ruled that out.But the TDS5000 does have long memory (option 2M gives 2/4/8M per channel, depending on how many channels are active), and it does have USB. It doesn't have decode though, and since the TDS5000 starts at 500Mhz it's quite a bit more expensive. Not really in the class of the SDS2000.Did you consider scopes from other manufacturers, i.e. Agilent? The DSO5000 could have been a contender.QuoteWith AWGs it's difficult if you want long memory as most older AWGs often come with small memory sizes, or you have to go quite a bit higher in bandwidth which means paying more for the higher performance kit.But it shows that the Chinese new kit only exerts pressure on older low end instruments which are roughly in the same performance category. It doesn't really effect the 2nd hand prices of more advanced instruments.QuoteI guess that is true for most people.

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:25:58 pm
content: I'm not sure about test equipment in general, but I do see lots of higher-end thermal cameras being sold for very little:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flir-T400-Infrared-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-320-X-240IR-T300-360-Upgraded-to-2000C-/221581907334

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 07:38:38 pm
content: That ebay sale for the Flir T400 looks dodgy with 0 feedback and a quick search shows that the photo used is the same as a (dodgy looking) TE website in Indonesia. But the ebay seller is in the USA?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 08:16:34 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on October 22, 2014, 07:04:28 pmYes and no. It seems there are way less Agilent and Lecroy scopes for sale on Ebay and I don't really have a clear picture in my head which product ranges Agilent and Lecroy made in the past. OTOH there are plenty of Tektronix oscilloscopes for sale but in general their UI is quite slow.

author: Mark_O
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 10:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: G0HZU on October 22, 2014, 07:38:38 pmHey, he's been an ebay Seller for 4 whole days. What's not to trust? He's looking to get $2500 for that Flir. Doesn't necessarily mean he has it though.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:08:41 pm
content: Here's a tip for you eBay equipment sellers: quit separating out all the accessories. Your old, out of warranty scope, meter, etc is worth a lot less to me if I have to go fish for probes, clips, etc. One can easily drop $500 for replacement probes on a 4 channel scope. If your selling practices make used cost near new, you'll have to understand why we didn't make a deal.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2014, 11:32:09 pm
content: I don't understand people's fixation on buying a scope with probes. If someone sells probes with a scope they are the worst ones that person has. Used probes = dirty used underwear to me. Good general purpose probes are cheap ($40 each or so). Beyond 100MHz you need specialist low-Z or FET probes to make meaningfull measurements. People don't sell those with their oscilloscope.Edit: things are different for specialist probes like RF power meters, logic analyser PODS, etc.

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 01:44:50 am
content: Yeah, that FLIR T400 listing does look pretty suspicious. However, there seems to be huge discounts on other thermal cameras. For example, here's a FLIR i7 whose current bid is less than one-third of the original price:http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLIR-i7-Thermal-Imaging-Infrared-IR-Camera-No-Reserve-Free-Shipping-/251681966791

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 02:50:18 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 22, 2014, 11:32:09 pmMy fixation is on the value of used versus new with all the parts. On sub 200 MHz scopes, it's rarely there on the secondary market.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 03:17:07 am
content: 30 years ago almost all test equipment was fairly, or very, general purpose. Microprocessor development tools would probably be the biggest exception. Now alotof the really expensive stuff is very very specific. When the specific niche (e.g. Bluetooth 2) goes away (e.g. by the introduction of Bluetooth 4) the equipment becomes almost worthless. I see lots of labs with massively expensive specialised equipment sitting in the corner. I think in some cases the accountants won't let it be sold off, as it still hasn't reached zero on their depreciation scale.I wonder what the sales ratio is between, say, the basic 50MHz/100MHz scopes that serve most people needs, and more exotic models?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 05:25:38 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 22, 2014, 08:16:34 pmYou're right that there are plenty of used Tek scopes on the market, but don't forget that Tek has kept its name unchanged over most (all?) of it's existence while Agilent only existed since 1999 (before then it was HP) and has changed its name again to Keysight. And there's a lot of HP and Agilent kit out there.I'd say Agilent's product range of scopes is probably simpler than the one of Tek from the same period.There's generally less LeCroy kit as they never really had attractive products in the entry level market, and prices are often lower because less people think of LeCroy when searching for scopes.I do think that 2nd hand Tek kit generally overpriced/overpaid (there seem to be many people willing to pay just for the name).QuoteYes, most UIs of older Tek scopes are slow like wading through molasses. HP/Agilent is much better in that area, as is LeCroy.

author: MadTux
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 05:33:53 pm
content: Price drop? Not really:http://www.ebay.com/itm/191379535504Thought it would end up somewhere in the 1000-2000$ range.

author: MarkPalmer
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:06:30 pm
content: I’ve noticed the prices coming down a little bit. There are still the idiot dealers asking outlandish prices for well outdated pieces of legacy test gear, but most of them are just sitting on shelves full of items collecting dust that they will never sell for multiple times what the things are actually worth on the market. If these dealers looked at the completed listings of what things actually sell for on the used auction block, they would move more of their inventory. Modern businesses involved in electronics design or manufacturing today aren’t going to be going after used 1980’s and 90’s test equipment regardless of how good it was made. The hobby sector could be the used test equipment dealer’s best customer if they got their prices realistic. They have been relying on the, "there is a sucker born every minute," strategy and that might be true now and then, but I really don't see how some of these guys in California who are sitting on warehouses full of old Silicon Valley junk can make any real money.-Mark-

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:29:06 pm
content: I noticed that if you negotiate on eBay you can get a better price. Not just offering $10 for a piece listed at $200, but saying something like: "there are 2 other sellers with the same item showing an self-check error. They are both willing to sell for $50 plus actual shipping. I know how to fix the error for $1 in 15 minutes so I can buy any of those, but if you're willing to sell yours for $60 plus shipping I will buy from you". Doesn't always work but you can get amazing deals this way.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 06:33:44 pm
content: Quote from: mazurov on October 23, 2014, 06:29:06 pmThis guy's had six offers but he's still holding out:http://www.ebay.es/itm/290798725044

author: mazurov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 08:01:53 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 23, 2014, 06:33:44 pmThat's OK, just find another. Or wait till the meter gets re-listed and make another offer.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 08:12:24 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on October 23, 2014, 06:33:44 pmHa! Good luck with that. I bought the exact same thing on ebay this past January for $80.

author: netdudeuk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2014, 08:18:34 pm
content: I bet that I could sell my still boxed DS1054Z for at least the same as I paid for it

author: alex.forencich
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2014, 02:22:37 am
content: Quote from: coppice on October 23, 2014, 03:17:07 amHah, I picked up a 16 lane PCI express gen 2 protocol analyzer with interposer (current Agilent list price >$100k) for about $4k. When the obscure stuff is replaced by the new generation, it depreciates like a rock. It's not the best device in the world, though - it's network booted so I have to run the software in a VM with a USB network card, and it crashes pretty consistently. Oh well. When it works, it gets the job done. I found 2 different bugs in the Altera PCIe gen 3 reference design with that thing so far.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2014, 06:58:06 am
content: Quote from: MarkPalmer on October 23, 2014, 06:06:30 pmMany of them are probably waiting for that one company that needs to replace an old instrument in a critical test system and which is willing to pay inflated prices for old gear to avoid the costs of re-designing and re-qualifying the test gear. The thing is that these cases have always been rare as a hen's teeth, hardly enough to sustain a business. And they are ignoring that times have changed a bit, and modern kit which follows standards like SCPI is much easier to replace with something new than say some test instrument froom the 80's which used its own command set.The other thing is that most of these sellers probably have no clue what they're selling. They may have seen the original list price and figure that something that did cost $20k some 10 years ago must now be worth at least $5k when it's really closer to say $1k.QuoteI'd think they must be under increasing financial predicament as prices of old test kit are falling while running costs are increasing. They probably just go bust before they come to their senses, though.I guess none of them ever heard the term "dead capital".