Brick'R'Knowledge electronic education & R&D - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 03, 2014, 01:50:47 pm
content: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/brick-r-knowledge-electronic-education-r-d/x/9031359#homeI had a chance to see this live at "Make Munich" (kind of a maker faire in munich, germany) and play around with it. So far I am quite impressed.I really like the concept of equal sized building blocks. It is easy to understand and you can just take a picture to document your circuit instead of trying to decode your beadboard-nightmare.Even though I consider the stretch goal scope and SA module a toy, they do serve their purpose in this application.The one thing I am not so sure about is how good the RF performance will be. The prototypes I have seen had a pretty good 50ohm microstrip layout, but the connectors worry me a bit. However, they state that the max. usable BW is about 120MHz, so it might not be that much of a deal.What is you opinion on this one? I think it is worth backing, especially since they already did some production runs and also have a distributor for the bricks. They work with "ALLnet", a medium sized german electronics/computer company. Also, it is/will be open source, so users can develop their own bricks.-phil

author: DJohn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 12:43:50 pm
content: I had a kit like that many years ago (early 1980s). Individual components in little clear plastic boxes (roughly 1cm x 1cm x 2cm), with the symbol printed on top, and a metal tab coming out of the bottom on each side. They plugged into a slotted baseboard. I think there were connector boxes as well, like this kit has.This might be my memory making things up, but I think it also had wires for making longer connections. Sometimes you need to get a signal further than the connector blocks can sanely do.It didn't attempt anything as ambitious as this one does, of course. The closest it got to RF was an AM radio reciever.The connectors on this look a lot more robust, which is good (I remember my kit could have problems with wobbly components). And it looks like they have 2 (or more?) connections on each side, which will make more advanced blocks possible (and the connector blocks a lot more useful).As an educational kit, the important bit will be the documentation that comes with it. I hope they don't skimp there.

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 02:30:52 pm
content: They have 4 contacts per side, 2 of them are 0V (the outer contacts) and the other 2 carry signals (the inner 2).Looks like they plan to release more information shortly regarding the bricks they already have and what they plan to add next.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:13:03 pm
content: Braun Lectron:

author: mngiggle
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:21:11 pm
content: Don't have time to dig much, but what are they using for interconnect? Looks odd in the photos for some reason (not thinking Photoshop, more that I'm missing something).

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 03:35:34 pm
content: Should bethiskind of connector. The developer said that they are used in LED lighting for flexible connections. You can bend the bricks up and down without problems and pluck them in either from above or from the side.

author: DJohn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2014, 10:30:49 pm
content: It's been driving me crazy. Denshi Blocks!http://searle.hostei.com/grant/ElectronicKits/index.htmlhas pictures of a few versions. The SR-1A has the clearest picture of the blocks. I had something like the SR-3A deluxe. That brings back some memories.When viewed from the above, the circuit is its own schematic.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 11:26:43 am
content: Feel free to post questions about Brick'R'Knowledge, It is my construction.The brown lectron system indeed inspired me for BrickRKnowledge, I once owned a complete set (1970) and gave it to my ham radio clubstation. Then searching for a more stable solution with similar properties I found the hermaphrodite connectors. The hermaphrodite link posted here..--On the SA, its of course for education, but the used devices as the NE612 and the DDS (intern >400Mhz clock) can handle also high frequencies. The connectors limit the BW to around 120 MHz. On the Digiscope - it's currently using 2 AD converters with 80MSps 14 bit, and 2 DAs with 120 MSps, a Spartan 6 (LX45) and PIC32 CPU. Even if we don't reach the stretch goal its on the production pipeline (may take longer than), if the Indiegogo Project is sucessfull all schematics, FPGA Source etc. will be published. Its a modular system, the scope can also be used for SDR decoding.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2014, 03:04:57 pm
content: Circuit example of an oscillator using a PUT (unijunction). We also have spare bricks and raster boards which you can get to build your own bricks. The PUT is a little bit more modern than the classic unijunction transistor. 2nd example is a noise generator and an amplifier (LM 386).

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 06:40:01 am
content: Good news,we have removed the stretch goals and included in the plerks, so rf set, spectrum analyzer module and digital scope are more reachable.The spektrum analyzer can be used as a start point for many projects, as its the first time you have such a small module to be integrated into circuits. I used it already in the fieldday fox hunting for experiments, as you see a spectrum of all rf transmitters its very helpful. And it does weight only some gramms instead of kilograms as with conventional analyzers, running from battery - I will post some images later on in the campaign.

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 06, 2014, 03:04:32 pm
content: Thanks, I will definitvely look into the RF perks.It might be a good idea to send a basic set to dave to do a small review. I think there are many people out there looking for something like that but did not hear of your campaign until now.Just remember to stick a big, red message "crowd funding project - please open befor 7. Dec!" or something on the package or it might get lost in the other mailbag things piling upI do have one concern though: The oscilloscope price point. I understand that this is a crowdfundingcampaign, but it is really close to the DS1054Z (355€ in europe). And that scope is in an other league. I think that many people would rather buy a bench oscilloscope than an oscilloscope made for a specific use case if the price difference is only about 20€.Another thing: Could you introduce probing bricks? Say, put a BNC connector and some exposed contact pins on it so one can use scope probes or other test gear to look at a specific point in the circuit. Make it a through-connect piece so one can insert it at any point instead of a normal connection.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2014, 09:05:46 am
content: Good idea, we will send him one.On the scope, the DS1054 is a nice instrument, but is specialized for DSO and closed source.Our instrument not only has two AD converters with 14bit depth (which allows for a nice spectrum analysis and maybe even VNA), but has also a input bandwidth of 400 MHz (80 MSps for realtime) on the components, so you can do oversampling, both of which is important to do SDR (software defined radio). The brick has also 2 analog outputs with D/A Converters and 120 MSps also have 14bit and allow arbitrary waveform generation which is an additional instrument. With 2 synchronized channels it can even handle IQ modulation tasks. Its an open source including circuits, FPGA code (you can use the free webscape tool of Xilinx), Firmware Source and additional PC software for larger display and handling.On the probes. First you can directly probe between the bricks (see images) even with the special GHz probes which need a between ground and we have special bricks to hook up SMA or even BNC (prototype in the first image)

author: phil
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2014, 02:11:04 am
content: Quote from: rdklein on November 07, 2014, 09:05:46 amThat could be a big selling point to some people, why not advertise that aspect a bit more? Call it "digital oscilloscope and arb. waveform generator brick" or something like that.I saw your video on the simple set, do you plan on releasing similar videos for the other sets, too? Also, if a part of the manual is already done, could you give us a sneak preview?

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 08, 2014, 06:39:28 am
content: Good idea, I just changed it on igg.We will be present next week on the electronic 2014 munich exhibition (hall A1.659). I will be there on tuesday, thursday and friday for questions.We work on more videos on the bricks, but the fair slowed us down a little bit.ALso we will redefinf another brick set at the fair. The mobile phone brick set. Currently we just test the GE866 Quad as GSM- it can handle datastreams also but with G2 'only'. I worked the the GE865 before, but the GE866 is much smaller and fits in a 2x1 brick (including sim card and embedded antenna). There will be some other bricks as addon like GPS to build a tracker sending sms with positions for example (I had a project some years before doing this, so I built already mobile systems). Arduino and Rasperry can be used to control the system, we also work on a smaller CPU brick which makes the whole portable (we actually get a portable phone if someone wants to carry it). mic and phones can be hooked up to the GE866 directy. Have a look at the spec.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 10:26:39 pm
content: I had a Braun set (sold by Raytheon in the US) as a child, and I found it incredibly frustrating. It's hard enough to make a circuit work without fighting the constraints of the 2D bricks. A regular solderless breadboard is so much more practical, not to mention cheaper!

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 05:52:42 am
content: yes indeed I know what you mean, but some important things:a) its difficult debug a breadboard (when you are not skilled and a beginner)b) have you tried to document your breadboard circuit (I have a nice sample here even a professional publisher did not succeed, the images of the breadboards work but the displaced circuits have a 40% error rate) - you need time to think about the floorplan anyway.if you have a ready working breadboard try to post a photo for rebuild into the forum. DO the same with our bricks.c) building ciruits above 100 MHz with a breadboard (lectron could not do it either ) is really not practiable.--we hope to make bricks very cheap, so the number of bricks should not be the problem, we are also not limited to the baseboard as lectron (ground was at the baseboard), and we have connectors with 2 free connections which makes it simpler for crossings and higher integration (I2C...).RF - that's where we want to go, bricks with mixers, baluns, filter units, GHz prescaler (demonstrated on the electronica fair) -- I made a rf course with the ham radio people on mixer using my bricks -- I think its the first system where you can do real experiments with RF technique (VHF). In the pipeline a WIFI module, GSM and GPS. We spoke to semiconductor manufacturers, and our system might allow to have bricks coming from them instead or in addition to eval boards - depends of course on the type of circuits (A fpga with 400 pins is out of reach- but many other circuits are interesting).of course every system has its advantage and disadvantage, I worked with breadboards long time ago ... I grow up with brown, with bopla and even with the PEK system (my father had a learning company) -- there you can build a color tv -- but was increadible expensive at that time (1970) and took a whole room (made flat like with brown lectron stand vertical. Bit that was a pure education system not a developer system).

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 05:34:51 pm
content: Nice podcast where I was invited:http://crowdfundingcast.tk/crowdfunding-cast-episode-077-bricks-r-knowledge/

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 06:19:14 pm
content: Quote from: rdklein on November 12, 2014, 05:52:42 amThat's true, but at least it's possible, unlike the situation where you just don't have enough bricks to build the circuit (or worse, it's topologically impossible).QuoteEven as a child, I always worked the other way, from schematic to breadboard. Of course, I didn't have a digital camera.QuoteI'm having a hard time understanding the RF bricks for beginners concept. Surely anyone who could learn how to use a spectrum analyzer could also learn how to solder a simple circuit together?

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 07:15:41 pm
content: a) number of bricks is indeed important, we will also have spare boards (raster of different kinds) etc. and you can go into the 3rd dimension (this will break the documentation feature of course).b) good praktice.c) its a matter of the abstraction level. When you teach first simple circuits also oscillators etc. you come to a point wher the students can use more comple xbuilding blocks (bricks), like mixers, vcos, ready filters etc. then they can easy experiment with those instead of larger circuits, which helps understanding the principle for example modulating and demodulating and many more. License A+E (in germany) for ham radio requires understanding these principles, and till now it was most theory to gain the knowledge or looking into ready build systems.The pure beginner (e.g. children age 8-12+) will start with simple bricks and the usualy examples of course, but the system can do more, if you use the bricks in university labs for example, circuits are nice, but more complex structures are more interesting, combining bluetooth modules, (we have one with ad converters,) using I2C bricks to build compelx even digital circuits is more easy, and programming the things with either arduino, rasperry etc (we have adapters for this). Of course a lot of paperwork has to be done to handle the didactic things.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 07:45:11 pm
content: This looks extremely expensive and also very constraining. Possibly even dumbing down.As a child I learned electronics (and woodwork, and winding ferrites too) from the excellent Ladybird bookbuilding a Transistor Radio. I later also had one of those 100 in 1 kits with all the springs and wires.I also had a Meccano set with the motor to play with, Hornby electric railway sets too. My friends had the Scalextrics, and I was the go to dude to fix the tracks or cars in my pre-teen years.When I was older a proper prototyping breadboard (which I am pleased to see is still usedin this day and age) was much better than springs and brass screws.Older still, making my own PCBs. Everyone should go through the amazing experience of a home made high resolution PCB. Then just give up and leave it to the professionals,I just don't think dumbing down electronics to choc-a-blocks like Lego and Stickle bricks is really a good idea.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2014, 08:03:50 am
content: There will be always different ways to learn electronics and to develop.We just returned from the electronica 2014 and made some great contacts. We met chip manufacturers, who were very interested in our system. As highlight we met the Red Pitaya developer people at our booth showing the BrickRKnowledge system - can't tell more at the moment.

author: mrgregs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 08:32:53 am
content: A little note on your project - raspberry is being spelled "rasperry" in several places on your IGG page.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 09:54:45 am
content: Ups - just changed the title back to rasperry -- my legasteni (or so) still alife. --- thanks for the hint - hope I fixed them just now, The other were correct - let me know if there is still one (I only found the title so far - my team might have corrected the other before ?).

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 27, 2014, 10:09:47 am
content: Just an update, as some images posted on the igg page - bricks with 26 GHz VCO -- we got this running and wre inspired to do more in the GHz range .We will have an additional hermaphrodite connector system (works like one) - from Rosenberger we will get the P-SMP connector system. They allow up to 10 GHz and can be connected via a bullet side by side like the current connector. Then we can expand the frequency range, but loose the top plug in capability for this direction. Mixers, VCOs, etc. will come up. Still use the old conectors for power and for control voltage or below 140 MHz.Up to 2 GHz we can use FR4 but then Rogers 4350 material -- this is then really high end - we hope to keep cost down thanks to mass production (we have production facilities in Asia but also east Europe). Some prototypes are in production which I will post in the next days. Adapter to SMA, and a first usefull brick with a 10MHz-6GHz RMS detector (P-SMP in, Brick connector out for measurement applications). Using a Linear RMS chip.

author: mrgregs
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 06:42:43 am
content: Quote from: rdklein on November 27, 2014, 09:54:45 amThe other place I noticed it was in the "CPU Plus" perk.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 06:52:36 am
content: Thanks, yes looks like my team had corrected it already.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 05:02:21 pm
content: The new connectors and printed circuit boards arrived. With the P-SMP from Rosenberger we can reach higher frequencies with our brick system. The P-SMP connectors were designed for up to 10 GHz and 300 Watts. They are connected via small bullets, so we can have a similar feeling like with the hermaphrodite system. First bricks use FR4 boards which might llimit the upper frequency to 2.x GHz. With Roger 4350 Material we can get higher for special applications (I think for the 10GHz band used also for HAM radio). Next comes a RF RMS power detector with a theoretical limit to 6GHz - to be measured...Have to check for all S Parameters etc.Also an adapter to SMA is shown.

author: Sigmoid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 05:17:26 pm
content: Hm... I wish they were better at coming up with a name for their product.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2014, 06:05:17 pm
content: Indeed we think about this.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2014, 01:14:51 pm
content: We just finished a new brick, the RMS measurement brick for 10MHz-6GHz (LT5581), using the FR4 material shows in the below measurement series, that we can reach a linearity till about 2.7 GHz. Then loss is increasing. But till 10 GHz, a signal goes through.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 29, 2014, 01:16:44 pm
content: As the attachments overflowed, here a low frequency example.AM Modulations can be measured till around 100 kHz.Eine Anzeige von 0.2V entspricht ca <= -34..-40dBm im nichtlinearen Bereich des Sensors.Bereich -34 dBm bis 6dBm mit 31 mV/db (noch nicht genau calibriert bei uns), also ca. 0 dBm bei 1.32V unter Berücksichtung laut Datenblatt LT5581 ablesbar (frequenztoleranz...).

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2014, 06:38:54 am
content: Brick'R'Knowledge at the master award exhibition...http://www.corporate-media-masteraward.com/http://www.corporate-media-masteraward.com/mediapool/download/pdf/Corporate%20Media%2026%20Programm%20MasterDinner%20und%20Trends%20Seminaris%20Bad%20Boll%2007-12-2014.pdfcannot tell more before monday after the award. But the invitation is in the pdf.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 08:52:30 am
content: Now the result of the yesterday event: we received the "Master of Excellence" for the innovative tool- system- and hardwaresolution "Brick'R'Knowledge". This is the highest possible award from this jury.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 09:57:21 am
content: Quote from: DJohn on November 04, 2014, 10:30:49 pmThere are so many kits on that page, yet the only ones I remember clearly are the Philips ones with the springs. They were promoted quite a bit around Christmas time. Those springs were really frustrating. They held one or two wires well. Add a third or forth and and a previous wire would spring out.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2014, 08:52:25 am
content: Yes I had a phillips system in my child days, also kosmos, braun and many more... my father had a company producing teaching systems for schools (also for military)...we just got the Award "Best Lerningsystem" see attachment. Our bricks now extend into the GHz range, below an image with our demstration of a 10 GHz VCO and divider for the little oscilloscope to view the waveform. On the right side is the spectrum analyzer.

author: rdklein
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2014, 09:20:26 am
content: Today is the lst day for the campaign, which will fail if we dont get a last minute sponsor. But nevertheless we continue the system and already have good response in germany. Hope we can make it also a fully open system.