Best way to put DIL pins on a small PCB to create replacement for old parts. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:00:44 am
content: In fact, I think I already know the best way, this guy has a solution. Take a look at his example PCB if my question isn't making perfect sense:http://www.ebay.com/itm/50x-Batten-and-Allen-BA3760-Dil-Leadframe-DIP-PCB-Edge-Clip-Pins-BASIC-Stamp-/262614484533My only complaint is that at 12 cents per pin it gets expensive fast. Is there another product like this that possibly is a bit less expensive? Or an even better solution? This one seems perfect because it is SMT. You can go with through-holes but then you are effectively using twice the board space. I like this solution, just not the price.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 03:32:16 pm
content: Funny coincidence, I am looking at something similar for a C64 restoration.I also want the smallest PCB outline, I was going to use Mill Max SMT .100 headers but they are also very expensive.But they do leave the top free.Mill Max header #350. Check the Digikey price for a laugh.I am just building something one-off so it doesn't really matter.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 03:50:41 pm
content: Herehttp://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/mill-max-manufacturing-corp/350-10-164-00-106000/ED24064-ND/357049As you can see, the price is baffling.

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 04:32:46 pm
content: This was on hackaday recently...http://oshchip.org/products/Flip-Pins_Product.html

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:31:43 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on December 24, 2016, 03:50:41 pmThose are really nice pin headers, 22 cents per pin. I looked at cheaper headers at first like this:You can get this very cheap on eBay. But they take up more board space than you would expect and while they seat fine into normal PCB holes and solderless breadboards, they don't fit so well into standard DIL sockets, they seem to really stretch them out, so those are out.Quote from: Codemonkey on December 24, 2016, 04:32:46 pmThose OSH-Chip pin headers are nice. Also a bit expensive. Nine cents per pin, plus delivery, probably the same price as the ones I linked after delivery. They are also through-hole so as far as I can see it eats up more board space. Maybe it is more rugged. Probably easier to get aligned right every time, but I don't know that yet. Thanks for that link too.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:44:25 pm
content: Mind that 0.025" square posts are too large for IC sockets. You'll have to replace the socket with female header strip.Tim

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 08:50:50 pm
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on December 24, 2016, 08:44:25 pmI've noticed that. I updated my message after a bit of retesting. When I use the square, low quality headers like the one I linked an image of above, these are my results:Solderless breadboards: Fine.Stripboard/pad per hole board: Fine.Sockets: Not so fine.Now, it so happens I have made a few of these DIL replacement parts recently and posted them here. I have those cheap headers on them. In fact, the 8 pin one (555) can be inserted into a socket, but only with excessive force. That's why I agree not to use them, I expect it is damaging the socket. For 16-pin versions, it's even harder and I expect the damage is even worse.Some of my experiments so far (555, 741, 74151):

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 09:05:43 pm
content: Yeah, the Mill-Max part has 0.018" pins. These seem fine in DIP sockets.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2016, 10:02:58 pm
content: There are a number of parts that I use for RF filters that I got at a neighbor's estate sale, which can act as DIP IC compatible parts holdershe (now deceased) was an electronics engineer.I will gather some of them together and post it here later tonight, after I finish dinner. I also have some pins that look related to some of the ones linked.The way those pins are mounted is so similar to the ones that I have that I suspect they likely came from the same source.Found..They are the SIL clips from this company. For edge mounting of a PCB vertically.It must be old, nothing in his basement was newer than maybe the late 1980s or early 1990s.

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 01:42:19 am
content: Forget the per pin cost. How the heck u install them? Seems like the 12 cents per is the least of your worries, in volume. Probably why they cost so much. Average order is probably under 50 pieces.Pin header takes up more board space, but.. they come in a strip and take a few seconds to insert.

author: JoeN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 02:36:24 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on December 25, 2016, 01:42:19 amSeems to me you need to make .1" spaced pads on the side of your board, you cut off a strip of these for the correct number of pins, and you can see it is in a frame that spaces it all out for you correctly. You solder it down first. Then you trim the tops and the bottoms. At least I think that is what is going on here. I guess there would be trouble if your PCB was an oddball thickness. Looks like the seller is using them with a 1.6mm thick PCB to me (see top image of thread). Your guess is maybe better than mine. I ordered a few to test them out. Worst comes to worst, I am out six bucks.

author: bpiphany
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 08:36:24 am
content: Here's the manufacturer's page with datasheetshttp://www.batten-allen.com/dil-clip-design.phpTE seem to make similar pins. They are not stocked anywhere, but if you want to buy tens of thousands of them you'd probably be set

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2016, 10:04:41 am
content: to make DIP adapter boards I have always used double-ended male machine pins like this from dip-micro:http://www.dipmicro.com/store/HDR40X1MMI buy them from dip-micro because Canadian-eh and I like to support local. 10 pieces of 40 pin strips costs less than $10 cdn so $0.025 per pin . In USA bucks that's nothing.Obviously they are not exactly functional equivalent to the batten pins of the original post. They need a wider adapter board with room for plated through holes and worst of all are not fully compatible with every socket. They will at least fit in more sockets than square header pins but some contact styles will be sketchy and be stretched. Machine pin males into machine pin sockets are however working fantastic. Since I also favour machine pin sockets for my prototypes that has never been a problem.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 02:57:01 am
content: Im dragging up an old thread here I know, but does anyone know of any new/available products that are suitable for this purpose?Some of the vintage IC sockets (such as RN brand) have quite narrow openings and are permanently damaged by pins around 0.6mm.Preci-dip (https://www.precidip.com/AppHost/9696,1/Scripts/Modules/Catalog/Default.aspx?c=8) are 0.47mm, but expensive at around $5 for 40 pins.Flip Pins are also a bit expensive (https://shop.evilmadscientist.com/productsmenu/854) - neat though and 0.4mm thick (which is still still twice as thick as a regular IC leg of around 0.2mm lead thickness).I need somthing thats under $1 for a 40 pin strip ideally. I did find some parts at LCSC that quoted 0.5mm on the datasheet, but upon receiving them measured at 0.6mm. They were $0.30 for a 40 pin strip, but no good.

author: jbb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 04:36:11 am
content: Instead of round or square pins, I think you might be looking for a ‘lead frame’ pin.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 05:19:46 am
content: Quote from: jbb on May 18, 2020, 04:36:11 amIndeed , I think that is the way to go to ensure that no damage is done to vintage sockets. The lead frame pins seem to be around 0.25mm which is perfect. Now to hunt them down at a reasonable price! I've sent a query to Batten and Allen about their BA3760 pins that were mentioned in the top of this thread - I suspect MOQ will be a killer though.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:17:07 am
content: Theseare what I get, for a bit more than US$0.04/pin (incl. 19% VAT) at the current exchange rate. The pins are 0.5mm in diameter to plug into IC sockets. Perhaps an order might be worthwhile if Reichelt ship to Oz and have other things you need.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 01:38:13 pm
content: I tried lead frame pins and I found them difficult to work with. You can get cu-to-length on Mouser I think. I might be able to search my archives for the part. I ended up using "arduino headers". They are almost as thick as the flip pins though I think.http://211.75.129.79/onlinec/object/4udrawing/19727.pdfThey are (were?) widely available. You need to screen out all the square pin variations that will come up in a web search.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 09:55:22 pm
content: Quote from: grantb5 on May 18, 2020, 01:38:13 pmOk yeah - looks like those are 0.64mm square pins - unfortunately those will destroy the sockets I'm working with. I need to find something around 0.3mm to 0.4mm max I think.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:16:59 pm
content: They are not square, I know you are trying to avoid that and so am I. They are flat and look like this:https://www.bc-robotics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/8p-stacking.jpgGB

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:27:35 pm
content: edge castellated boards with preci-dip ( or equivalent) turned pin male strips side soldered

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:33:33 pm
content: soldering it into one of those flatcable to dil connectors is too sketchy?https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51MTfPOP0iL._AC_SL1024_.jpg

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:34:01 pm
content: [ Specified attachment is not available ]Quote from: grantb5 on May 18, 2020, 10:16:59 pmThere are two types, one is square and the other one is flat (less square, to be more precise). The square ones are best for stacking on top of female headers, as they make better contact, and the flat ones are good for DIP replacement to avoid damaging the existing sockets.I am using the flat ones to make a special commodore 64 chip replacement.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 10:49:33 pm
content: That's cute. Do you cut the plastic headers socket part off? Can we see the other side?

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:09:50 pm
content: Quote from: deanclaxton on May 18, 2020, 05:19:46 amMaybe we can organise a group buy?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:14:15 pm
content: Quote from: grantb5 on May 18, 2020, 10:49:33 pmThe whole process:

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:30:22 pm
content: Quote from: grantb5 on May 18, 2020, 10:16:59 pmAhh - right - excellent - I need to check that drawing again for thickness but that could be a winnerEDIT : Ohhhh 0.64 X.4! Awesome - I was reading 0.64 X 4 (as in square) - that seems the best option so far I think.

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2020, 11:32:14 pm
content: Awesome - yes - that's what I need. How flat are they? 0.4mm ish? What drill size will they work with on the PCB?

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 12:06:09 am
content: Quote from: deanclaxton on May 18, 2020, 11:32:14 pmThe pins are 0.64 x 0.4. The square ones are 0.64 x 0.6

author: deanclaxton
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 12:17:07 am
content: Quote from: TK on May 19, 2020, 12:06:09 amExcellent - thanks TK for confirming - and thanks GB for pointing them out. Seems like this is the best way forward and I assume they can be obtained quite economically from the likes of LCSC - I'll go shoppingTK - is that for a PLA replacement? I've got a pile of C64's that I need to finish working through - I've got most up and running from memory. At least one required a PLA - I need a SID for one or two of them from memory.Technically these should fit in a 0.8mm drill hole - datasheet seems to recommend 1.02mm. I dont suppose it really matters - a tighter fit helps keep them straight I suppose, while assembling them.

author: ChristofferB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 12:43:29 am
content: I really like using male-male DIP connectors like these:They arent super easy to find anymore though.

author: TK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 12:59:47 am
content: Quote from: deanclaxton on May 19, 2020, 12:17:07 amYes, it is the PLA replacement. I have them listed on eBay. Just use the regular pin header footprint in Kicad. It is better to have a hole big enough to fit the pin and a lot of solder needs to flow down to secure them in place. If you use a very tight fit hole, then not enough solder will fill the hole.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 19, 2020, 02:14:27 am
content: I think Samtec has something similar that you can buy, and in the pin count you want. They would have a much lower MOQ. Also, if you have enough vertical space you could just use machined pins with a small enough diameter possibly.

author: grantb5
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2025, 12:59:31 am
content: The Samtec part for 14-pins. Not cheap, but better quality than the ones you'd get from Adafruit.https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/200-SSW11403GSIgnore the Mouser photo. These are SIL flat pins. Just as shown earlier in this thread, but quality. Crazy how much $ they went up during and since COVID.I'd like to try leadframes too, but haven't done my homework on those yet.