Good Wifi chip? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 02:31:39 am
content: What is the "user-favorite" Wifi chip these days? Is the ESP8266 still "the best" or has something better comes up?Robustness of the Wifi protocol implementation, good QA, i.e. quality over price, plus availability, are the criterions.Thanks

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 04:26:33 am
content: Espressif has a new chip coming down the pipe, but for now nothing can beat the esp8266 at the $2 price point, or even double or triple that price.http://nerdralph.blogspot.ca/2015/10/2-esp8266-4mb-esp-12-e-module.html

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 04:33:50 am
content: The only really good thing about the ESP8266 is its price, and that has certainly been low enough to get people's attention. If you want good, and are less sensitive to price, there are a number of SoC and radio chip + MCU options. Some, like the TI CC3200, can achieve extremely good power consumption for applications which send data intermittently, and make long term battery operation practical. What is still rather weak across the industry is 5GHz support in wifi chips for small embedded systems.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 04:54:57 am
content: Dont those esp chips die after 4 connections? I didnt they were very stable from what ive read.

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 05:35:50 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on October 14, 2015, 04:54:57 amI did read about memory leaks in older firmware, but nothing so bad that it failed after 4 connections.My experience is the modules are stable, with perhaps a stronger pullup and a cap on RST to avoid possible spurios resets.The modules can have power busts from below 80mA to near 200mA, so poor regulator circuit design can lead to problems.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 05:37:42 am
content: I should add that my interest is in making an M0+Wifi and an M4+Wifi board. Throw our compilers and JumpStart API at it, and Bob's your Uncle. So in that sense, a "dumb" Wifi chip that talks to a micro easily is preferred.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:03:55 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on October 14, 2015, 04:54:57 amhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10375154

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:17:42 am
content: ESP8266 gets my vote.I have been using them for about 4 months now... R&D only at this point, nothing serious developed yet.Prior to that I was using Roving Networks RN-171, very good, but very pricy - about USD 30 each.The ESP8266 is peanuts for the punch it packs.

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 09:55:40 am
content: There are a wide range of "wifi chips." The ESP8266 is "smart" with a complete TCP/IP implementation and (at least initially) a rather clunky uart-based interface (has that changed? I would have thought that adding an SPI interface, or improving the uart interface, would have been a natural thing to do given the "programabilty" of the boards. But I haven't heard any noise to that effect. (OTGH, I haven't been paying too much attention.)) Uarts tend to be in short supply on small microcontrollers, and less easily bit-banged than SPI/I2C. Because of the "A" part.TI CC3xxx have TCP/IP, but with an SPI interface. Other modules are (I think) interfaced below the IP layer...The ESP8266 is the only one I've heard of that is actually user-programmable in any normal sense.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:02:07 am
content: Quote from: westfw on October 14, 2015, 09:55:40 amYou just listed something that is very much user programmable - the TI CC3200. MTK, Atmel and others have devices with the TCP/IP stack on board and user programmability.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:08:20 am
content: List prices:TI C3100 - $20ESP8266 - $2-$3hmmm...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:51:04 am
content: Quote from: Mr.B on October 14, 2015, 08:17:42 amThat may be but you have to kick a device in the nuts to see if it really works in all situations and really meets FCC regulations. $3 each may seem nice but I would be very wary to use the ESP8266 in a serious product. There may be problems sourcing it and how well is the TCP/IP stack implemented? Security? Stability? I'd rather use something I can take control over (fix bugs) if necessary.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 11:01:43 am
content: The problem I have found with Atmel and Microchip offerings is that you are tied into using their development software and the documentation on the actual wifi devices seems very deliberately restricted.I would really like a wifi device myself that I can just setup over uart and have full documentation for and actually does work properly.Are there actually some examples of people using the ESP8266 and it actually performing under any form of duress? Every time I read something about them it sounds good but then you dig deeper and find it never really remains reliable/stable and locks up, crashes, freezes you out of the communication uart. I was very much put off using them because I could see them taking up a lot of my time and ending up with something unreliable. Maybe the firmware for them will mature over time..

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:14:15 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 14, 2015, 10:51:04 amI agree with you 100%.I have not designed it into anyserious productyet and will not be doing so until I have proven its stability and reliability.My current serious product is still using the RN-171.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:32:31 pm
content: from what I've read (and experimented) the esp8266 can be programmed : with a lua interpreter, or like an arduino, or directly with the expressif SDKthe lua system leads to not stable esp8266 (I saw that, often the esp reboots or hangs with simple programs)with the arduino ide programming, I have no problem so farI did not try the expressif sdk but I've read that it seems more stable than the arduino ide systemyou can also use an arduino with a wifi shield, you can get one with a fcc certification. but you will pay some $50 for it and for me it's quite the same as the $3 esp8266 !

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:35:43 pm
content: I talked to the "hardware guy", and we are definitely leaning toward the C3100. It is more robust and proven. More expensive, but at 1K+ QTY, the difference is only $4 or so.Our target here is the OEM market, where designers can just drop the module in.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:51:16 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on October 14, 2015, 07:44:36 pmPlease educate me on the difference between the two? Also, is FCC <xxx'ed> carry weight in non-US markets?Thanks.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 07:59:21 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on October 14, 2015, 07:51:16 pmNope. Certification tests are slightly different so you'd need to certify for CE.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:15:18 pm
content: Still any sane importer will want to see proper certification papers. The importer is responsible for bringing products onto the EU market so any non-compliancy will be the importer's problem.Quote from: blueskull on October 14, 2015, 07:44:36 pmUnfortunately getting your board / product certified is not as simple as copying a design an expect it to pass verification. It is highly likely it passes certification but you can still mess things up and fail certification or there can be different rules applying to your particular product. For example: I'll be spending the next couple of days at a test house to re-certifiy the modifications to an existing design. Because it can be used in both industrial and domestic situations the most strict limits for each situation (domestic/industrial) applies. If Espressif only tested their design in an industrial or commercial environment it is likely not to pass in the other.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 08:32:16 pm
content: OK, lets imagine this scenario:Company X (i.e. us :-) ) wants to provide a drop-in OEM wifi-micro module for designers to use. Let's say we have a choice of using a Verified chipset or a Certified chipset.Our end user, Company Y, takes our module and makes a Widget Z. Regardless our board's status, they will need to get their product Z FCC and other agency's certifications.If we want to give them the "best chance" to succeed, is it better for us to use a chip that is Verified, or Certified, or does it not really matter?It looks like the ESP8266 is Verified and the TI C3100 is certified.Thanks.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 09:10:18 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on October 14, 2015, 10:08:20 amDepends on what you want to do, I'm not sure if ESP can handle SSL?, or multiple simultaneous sockets?CC3100 is $6.7 at 1k units, CC3200 is $7.99 at 1k units, where did you find $20?cc3200 is on same die as an cortex m4.. whereas cc3100 is just alone.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:22:34 pm
content: All signs point to C3100 then :-) Thanks.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:33:44 pm
content: Quote from: neslekkim on October 14, 2015, 09:10:18 pm180MHz ...

author: jnz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 10:46:47 pm
content: FWIW... I'm went through the idea of certifying bluetooth smart, and stopped. Even at 10k units it wasn't worth my time compared to a module.I like the BLE stuff from BlueGiga (Now SiliconLabs) and their Wifi line looks pretty good as well.

author: ralphd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 11:09:46 pm
content: Quote from: richardman on October 14, 2015, 10:22:34 pmOnly if you don't like Realtek. RTL8189ETV modules like the one used on the Banana Pi 2 are about $3.

author: richardman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 01:43:48 am
content: Anyone with experience with the Broadcom BCM43362 Wi-Fi chip?It's being by "Photon"

author: boriz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 03:38:11 pm
content: I am currently using the esp8266, programming it in the native api.Made it into an irc-bot so you can control it via irc instead of bloated http.It is pretty stable, but can hang up if you produce serial debug data faster than thebuffer can handle, so just keep the debugging out on the uart to levels so it won't overflow,the buffer, at which point the device will reboot.There are also issues with the ssl, it works if your device act as a https server,then you just supply it with its private,public key etc.But if you use it for https or use it for encrypted connections to any other protocol asa client, you are most likely out of luck, as it doesn't support newer certificates that mostendpoints use these days.There is a good amount of ram on the beast, that part is a joy to work with and mucheasier when you arent limited to 750 bytes as i am used to on lower end pic's.The best bang for the buck that i have found so far. Most of the major "houses" are makingfull tcp stack wifi chips, but the price is at the $30 price range pr unit and thats beforeyou have added the glue components and pcb.

author: don.key
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 26, 2015, 09:46:36 pm
content: A guess a novice question:Am I correct to assume that all those modules seem to handle OSI layers 1-5, with TCP/IP stacks etc?But what is if I do not want that, I want my main MCU's RTOS and TCP/IP stack to handle everything above layer 2. Can this be (efficiently) be done with chips such as CC3100 or ESP8266?Thanks

author: don.key
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2015, 09:01:49 am
content: So CC3100 seems to be the only real option in that case.Bummer, not that I have something against CC3100 but it is definitively a overkill for what I am looking for and there seems to be no other option.