Beware when buying DMMs on ebay, fuses ain't cheap! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 07:29:46 pm
content: So I thought I scored a great deal on a Fluke 87III DMM on eBay for $100. $20 in shipping and I was set.However...both fuses are blown! Doh! That's $100 from Digikey to replace those bringing the total closer to $220, more than double the purchase cost.If you are buying a used multimeter, like a Fluke 87 or similar, make sure you ask to see it measuring current (on both channels in the case of a Fluke 87 et al).It can really add up to replace those. $45 for the 11A fuse, $36 for the 440mA fuse. $8 in shipping plus tax and ouch!This is probably just a rookie mistake on my part. Oh well.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 07:45:33 pm
content: For those wanting HRC fuses and don't want to spend more than the meter:http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/amprobe/accessories/fuses.htmFP410 Amprobe FP410 11A/1000V Fuse 1000V 11A pack of 2 $15.15FP412 Amprobe FP412 FA.44A/1000A/10001A 1000V 44A pack of 2 $16.10orhttp://www.testequipmentdepot.com/uei/accessories/fuses.htmAF38 440mA, 1000V Fuse qty:1 Sale $7.95AF39 DM391DM393 11A, 1000V Fuse qty:1 Sale $7.95Plus shipping of course.If you are buying a new multimeter, it is always best to buy at least one spare set of fuses at the same time.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 07:51:24 pm
content: Those fuses can be found on ebay for a lot less.One Source of FusesWhen I bought a supposedly fully tested Fluke 87-V that turned out to have a blown 44/100 A fuse I asked the seller for a partial refund and referenced another ebay seller who had them. He refunded enough of my money to buy the fuse.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 08:04:40 pm
content: That is a great deal! A great deal if you live in the USThey won't ship outside of the US.....

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 08:09:12 pm
content: I found prices vary wildly for these DMM fuses, apparently for the same thing - it pays to look around. For example, compare:http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/multimeter-fuses/2010251/http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cartridge-fuses/4597918/

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2013, 08:35:07 pm
content: That's very expensive; new fuses at worst at $20 each delivered in the USA. Typically you can get them for about half that. If the fuses are blown you'd also best check the DMM carefully, to insure it wasn't damaged by the previous owner.The fuses are made by Bussman specifically for DMM, and via reputable dealers in the USA, range from $5-8 each.http://www.amazon.com/DMM-11A-Fluke-Digital-multimeter-replacement/dp/B007QU1TQQ/ref=pd_cp_hi_0Be careful about buying fuses on eBay, a good number are counterfeit, as there is no way to check a fuse for authenticity except by careful comparison of its construction, or destructive testing. So, spend the extra few dollars and get it from an authorized distributor for Fluke.Quote from: cthree on June 04, 2013, 07:29:46 pm

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:00:16 am
content: Quote from: cthree on June 04, 2013, 07:29:46 pmAre you sure the prices on digikey that you are seeing aren't for quanity = 5?http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/circuit-protection/electrical-specialty-fuses/656626?k=fluke%20fuseThe ones that are $45 I see are for quantity = 5.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:43:25 am
content: Shipping from USA to Canada is usually brutal. Digikey charges $8 for overnight, $0 if you spend over $200.These are the two fuses I found for the Fluke 87:http://www.digikey.ca/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=F5081-ND$37 qty 1http://www.digikey.ca/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=F5082-ND$45 qty 1The BUSSMANN fuses are a little less but non-stocked and qty 10 min.retiredcaps has the correct links. Why they are 8x the price when you look in the wrong category for the same parts kinda pisses me off. There is a big difference between 8+6 and 45+37 for the exact same parts,Stupid. I'll definitely get the Fluke branded ones for 1/8th the price of the OEM branded ones. Thanks for the find, I totally missed it.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:48:04 am
content: Those $40 Digikey items say "Standard Package 10" so maybe that's 10 fuses? It does look confusing.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:51:03 am
content: Quote from: cthree on June 05, 2013, 05:43:25 amThe above SKUs are for quantity = 10. There are 10 fuses for each 1 package.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:53:36 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 05, 2013, 05:51:03 amI think you're right

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:56:01 am
content: Quote from: cthree on June 04, 2013, 07:29:46 pmIf you don't mind sharing the actual auction, let's see the seller description.If it is listed as "works perfectly", then I would complain about the blown fuses and ask the seller to refund $20 to help pay for new fuses.If there is no disclaimer regarding the fuses or "as is" clause, then chances are the seller listed the item as used. If yes, used on ebay means"An item that has been used previously. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended."Note the words "fully operational".

author: mikes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 01:59:42 pm
content: pack of 5, fluke branded,$23 at mouser. Or you can buy 1 for $9.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 02:18:27 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 05, 2013, 05:56:01 am

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 03:24:38 pm
content: Be cautious about buying boxes of these fuses, if you are a professional electrician, yes, it pays. But if you are a design engineer or a hobbyist, the likelihood you'll blow a fuse is fairly slim. Electricians probe many unknowns, usually at line voltage, and the chances of them missetting their DMMs from repeatedly doing the same work is high, thus the blown fuse. But design work puts the mind in gear 100% of the time, so repeatitive mindless tasks are fairly minimal. Otherwise, you'll have a box of spare fuses you'll never use, but you could sell your excess for $10 each on eBay.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 03:26:26 pm
content: QuoteI personally don't think you have a right to expect a "used" item to be fully operational;but because you asked the question..QuoteMeans to me that something as major as expensive blown fuses is nothing short of dishonesty on his part. You should definitely ask for all your money back or him to re-inburse you for the money for the fuses. But if you don't get a reply within a few days, just raise an Ebay dispute.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:26:02 pm
content: I've always wondered, does a blown fuse mean a re-cal is needed for current ranges?

author: Balaur
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:27:54 pm
content: Quote from: krivx on June 05, 2013, 04:26:02 pmShould not, voltage is sensed only on the resistor shunt.

author: houdini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:36:52 pm
content: And you guys are surprised when these things get replaced with a 15Cent bolt.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 04:42:36 pm
content: I am never surprised with human stupidity, just a bit discouraged. Fuses aren't that expensive as has been pointed out. It just needs a bit of research and thinking......

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:24:16 pm
content: Quote from: cthree on June 05, 2013, 02:18:27 pmI think you have a valid complaint. However, the only problem is that you already left feedback saying no problems.The seller could dispute and ebay/paypal is likely to side with seller based on your feedback.You could point out this thread to the seller as proof that your fuses are blown and you are not lying about it?Let us know the outcome.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 05:31:12 pm
content: Quote from: jucole on June 05, 2013, 03:26:26 pmWhy not? That is ebay's category rating and their definition.If item is not fully operational, it should be listed for parts or broken then.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 08:17:53 pm
content: Quote from: David_AVD on June 05, 2013, 05:48:04 amVery! Standard package is the package size for Digikey, not the customer. If you buy 2, you get 2, not 20. I just received three 11A fuses and 2 440mA that I ordered. I can confirm that I received 3 and 2 respectively, not 30 and 20. These have to go back in exchange for the orders of magnitude cheaper Fluke part numbered ones.The seller is going to refund me the price of the fuses.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 08:26:34 pm
content: Newark should have fuses for 7-8$ a pop in 5-packs.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 09:47:45 pm
content: Quote from: cthree on June 05, 2013, 08:17:53 pmGood for seller vetteharley1 for doing the right thing.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 10:39:29 pm
content: The only fuse I recall ever blowing on a DMM was the 200mA range. With brain engaged, it's hopefully not a frequent event!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 10:50:56 pm
content: I have never personally blown a fuse in any multimeter I have used since I started electronics and electrical work, back in the 70s. Is it because I am exceptionally smart and diligent?NO! It is because I developed a habit, a mental checklist so to speak. Every time I am finished with a multimeter I ritually put the range into the highest DC voltage range and unplug and replug the leads into the common and volt inputs. This ritual has saved me from harm. Is it foolproof? No but it is very helpful. I learned to do this after the first time I left my analog multimeter in some low range on current and then attempted to measure a wall socket without checking.I am glad the seller made good, and I am glad you can now see that the fuses don't need to be expensive. If you are buying one, you should buy a backup too! It is a good idea to have spares on hand. Actually I think every respectable meter manufacturer should be supplying a spare set of fuses with every meter they sell.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2013, 10:54:01 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on June 05, 2013, 10:50:56 pmThis is something I've always done too and bares repeating. It's one of those fundamental rules for using test gear.

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2013, 03:12:45 am
content: I'm not working with anything near 11A, more like sub-100mA, 200mA max. I always use the A post to measure current unless in check it first on A before moving to mA.I have 3 fluke 87 meters, one 87V and 2 87III's. they take the same fuses. Oddly my 87V which I also bought on eBay has a blown 11A fuse as well. I never noticed probably because I haven't used it to measure current before.I am ordering 3x11A and 2x440mA fuses to fix the 3 blown ones and have a spare set on hand.If you go on digikey and search for an 11A, 1000V fuse you get, the $45 one and a BUSSMAN one for $39 with is the one fluke uses as original equipment but which is sown out of stock and a minimum qty of ten, so $390 for 10 minimum.If you search for 'fluke fuse' you get the above BUSSMAN, exact same part, but from Fluke, in stock, qty 1 for like $8. You only get the cheaper price if your search includes the word fluke.

author: nukie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2013, 06:35:30 am
content: In China, there are no fuse to blow and there's handheld multimeter with DC power input.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2013, 11:55:11 am
content: Amazing ... and from the look of the DMMs they are heavily used. As mentioned earlier if you pay attention you may never blow a fuse but human nature ...http://serenityinchina.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/china-street-scenes-doing-electrical-wiring-above-streetin-middle-of-street/Quote from: nukie on June 06, 2013, 06:35:30 am

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 06, 2013, 10:07:21 pm
content: The saga continues...The cheaper, $8 and $6 fuses are only available from digikey.com, not digikey.ca. If you search for "fluke fuses" on digikey.ca you get nothing. I guess they aren't authorized to sell Fluke products in Canada. When I try to add the Fluke fuse to my cart I get:"Due to vendor restrictions, we are unable to add this item to your order."Perfect! grrr

author: cthree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2013, 01:54:55 pm
content: Newark has them in Canada for $9 and $6 each.While this episode has been a real pain in the ass I have to say that digi-key is pure awesomeness. Yes it's going to cost me money to send these fuses back but they aren't dicking me around, they even sent me a fedex return shipment label and are charging just $8. That's less than parcel post at the post office.<3 Digi-key

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 01:48:48 am
content: Quote from: saturation on June 04, 2013, 08:35:07 pmAny idea of how to tell whether a fuse is genuine, besides destroying it? I (stupidly, in hindsight) ordered some off ebay (granted, the seller has a high rating) because here in Switzerland, anything that electrons flow through that isn't a PC component costs a go•••••ed fortune. The ebay seller with free shipping was much cheaper.One of them appears to have a pad-printed label, the other appears to be inkjet. Had I seen that a few years ago it would have been a dead giveaway, but with industrial inkjets being widely used for legitimate applications these days, I can't be sure."How bad could they be?" I asked myself, but this was before watching Dave and others tear apart cheap Chinese crap and seeing exactly how horrific it can be!Mind you, I only got them as spares to keep on hand, the Fluke 87V still has its factory fuses in it, and I don't actually plan on blowing them. I assume that if I did blow a fuse somehow, these potential fakes could still tide me over for low-voltage stuff till I procured a definitely-real fuse.Any thoughts? Thanks!

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2015, 04:18:34 am
content: Quote from: tooki on March 12, 2015, 01:48:48 amA picture or link to your auction might help us help you.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 03:13:17 pm
content: Sure, thank you!The auction (well, buy it now) is here:http://www.ebay.com/itm/231265056155?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITHere are the products received. Note that the copper-looking reflections on some of the pictures are not bare copper, it's just my hands reflected onto the silver end caps with lots of flash illumination. Click any image to see the full 16MP (~4MB) image.

author: Zbig
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 08:27:20 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 12, 2015, 01:48:48 amAnd comessee what I did here?in the shops like this one:

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 10:44:50 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 13, 2015, 03:13:17 pmI have seen the seller, instrument_queen, on ebay before when he/she first starting selling T&M equipment/accessories. My guess is that he/she is selling legit Fluke multimeters and mostly legit Fluke accessories. Some of the carrying cases are obvious knockoffs designed to look like Fluke.As for the fuses, I believe them to be genuine because Bussmann changed their look sometime in 2014. The pictures you provided seem consistent with the new branding. Seehttp://www.cooperindustries.com/content/public/en/bussmann/electrical/resources/product_information/fuses-made-simple-control-circuits.htmlHaving said that, Bussmann does have a document warning users to be careful of counterfeit fuses (which I can't find right now).

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2015, 11:03:32 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 13, 2015, 03:13:17 pmThe purple one appears to be fake. It looks like the label was printed on an ink jet and there's a spelling mistake "Asserbled in Mexico" The r could be an n but there's no way it's an m because there isn't enough space between the letters.http://www.tooki.net/photos/dmmfuses/hires/DSC_4098.JPG

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 01:57:07 am
content: Yeah, you've really got to worry about the Chinese ones on ebay. Would be interest to dissect a genuine one and a known fake one (the spelling mistake is a dead give-away)

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 03:11:29 am
content: The red one says 10kA, while the purple one is 20kA. That's quite an improvement.

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 04:14:06 am
content: The UL certification mark is also wrong.The reversed letter should be rounded at bottom right:

author: Fat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 04:53:16 am
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 05, 2013, 05:51:03 amApparently whoever is packaging these thinks if you blow one fuse you'll continue to blow fuses, hence the package of 10.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 10:24:00 am
content: QuoteThey must be one of those rumored super-duper fuses that can also do your laundry and clean your house,

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 11:53:54 am
content: Does the consensus seem that the red one is real and the purple one is fake?Dave, you want me to mail you the fake one for dissection? I don't know enough about these for it to be worthwhile for me to dissect it myself. (Have you gotten mail from Switzerland before??)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 12:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: Zbig on March 13, 2015, 08:27:20 pmHahahahahah! That's in Basel, so I hadn't seen it! (I live in Zurich.) But honestly, they should move that shop toWankdorf.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 10:10:03 pm
content: Quote from: Hero999 on March 13, 2015, 11:03:32 pmGood eye. I didn't see that at first pass.

author: retiredcaps
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2015, 10:11:16 pm
content: Quote from: cosmicray on March 14, 2015, 03:11:29 amBussmann datasheet says 20kA is correct for the DMM-B-11A.http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/287359.pdf

author: cosmicray
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 12:58:23 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on March 14, 2015, 10:11:16 pmThe datasheet also says that the DMM-B-11A is slightly longer than the 10K version. Look carefully at the image where the 2 are shown horizontal next to one another. The purple (DMM-B-11A) is slightly longer. Perhaps these are 2 different fuse types.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 02:11:15 pm
content: Quote from: retiredcaps on June 05, 2013, 05:51:03 amChecking the same ones at Farnell, it seems its sold in qty of 1 for this price..

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 02:15:47 pm
content: Quote from: cosmicray on March 15, 2015, 12:58:23 pmThe pictures clearly show they're two different fuses. The red one is the 440mA, the purple the 11A. (Intended for a Fluke 87V.) The seller sold them as a set.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2015, 09:43:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on March 14, 2015, 11:53:54 amThe purple one is certainly fake.It's possible the red one is real but the fact it was sold to you with a fake puts that in doubt.You should return them to the seller and ask for a refund. If they refuse go to ebay and use this thread as evidence.

author: kamcm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 07:32:40 pm
content: Anyone know if the 'REAL' fuses have a difference in weight (0.5g) (5.89g vs 6.37g)?I purchased all of them from a seller located in China.please advise,Thanks

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 07:34:44 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on June 04, 2013, 07:45:33 pmJust like car replacement parts.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 07:36:14 pm
content: Quote from: kamcm on June 17, 2015, 07:32:40 pmOpen one up, see if they're filled with sand or not.And next time, don't buy fuses from China.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 07:54:23 pm
content: Quote from: kamcm on June 17, 2015, 07:32:40 pmThey look fake. Genuine ones look like this:

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 07:56:53 pm
content: Except completely different marking, metal caps are crimped not like on genuine fuses and look awful.

author: kamcm
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 10:04:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on June 17, 2015, 07:54:23 pmThanks for the info

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 11:08:23 pm
content: About once every 2 years I slip up and blow a fuse, so I only keep one spare handy for when I need it.Last time I bought 2 from Testpath:https://www.testpath.com/Items/Fuse-11A-1000V-10-x-38mm-Fast-Acting-116-230.htm$9.95they accept all credit cards for US and Canada buyers, but international orders have to pay by wire or money order. They ship to Canada for just $7.95 (same as the US) and there are no additional handling fees, whereas international orders have $10.00 tacked on. They almost treat Canada like the 51st StateGood to see vendors realizing that it's easy to do business with Canadian buyers.You can get 2 from Aliexpress for about $11. These actually look legit, but who knows. I would hate to bet my life on it if I was an electrician, but it's probably OK for my bench uses. I'd like to crack one open, but then you can't use it and your cost goes up, so it's better to just buy from a known dealer anyways.http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-DMM-B-11A-Buss-Fuse-Amp-for-Fluke-Digital-Multimeter-Bussmann-1000V/1756310371.html