Osiris Smart Water Monitor - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 05:09:44 am
content: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/910764625/osiris-the-65-smart-water-monitorIt's a device that you strap onto a water pipe, and it measures how much water you use, using a microphone of some kind. The app lets you set water consumption goals and track your usage. If the water is running when it shouldn't, it'll alert you to check for leaks. It'll also alert you if the temperature is falling and the pipes might freeze soon.Looks alright to me. The product is both physically and technologically possible. Their team has an analog designer, a digital designer, and only one manager. They say they've been developing "smart devices" for 14 years. (Anybody used their microvoltmeter or nanoammeter?) They seem to have good manufacturing partners. Their oscilloscope-displaying-a-sine-wave photo looks more like a real lab than most.Two things stood out to me, though:How does it convert sounds into water flow rate, even though different pipes, faucets, etc. surely sound different? It doesn't! It seems they're only counting minutes the water is running, not integrating rate of flow over time to determine how much water is actually used. A short shower likely uses more water than leaving the water running while brushing your teeth, but this device might count them as equal or the latter as a greater use of water depending on how long you take.They say they have a patent pending on this technology. I thought they might mean they're patenting an algorithm to convert sounds into water flow rate, which sounds like a reasonable thing to patent. But if they're only timing water usage, not measuring flow rate, they must not have (or want to use) such an algorithm. So are they patenting on/off detection of water flow in a pipe by sound? That should fail the obviosity test. They do say, though, that you can mount the device on any pipe in the house and it will work just as well, because the sound conducts through the entire plumbing system, so maybe they have an algorithm to help with that?

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 05:24:00 am
content: Reading their page, it's not clear if it measures water flow or simply detects flowing water.

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2017, 06:08:25 am
content: Quote from: DTJ on March 22, 2017, 05:24:00 amI'm pretty sure it's the latter, based on:Quote from: Osiris Kickstarter page

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2017, 04:29:53 pm
content: QuoteI would suggest that reading (and understanding - the two may be distinct!) the patent would be sensible before having a good rant about it.I developed some kit for which I obtained a patent. Objectively, the patent was rubbish for the technical purposes of the device, but it was useful for marketing. Being able to say "patent pending" and then "patented" is worth quite a lot. Someone like you may have come along and figured it couldn't be a proper patent and gone off on a rant on the basis that a patent existed at all, but had they read what it really was they would have had a red face afterwards since they would have been creating and then shooting down their own straw man.

author: PointyOintment
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 12:07:06 pm
content: I tried and failed to find their patent application. I used Google Patents and the search queries ["az" (pipe|tube) flow] and [(olivier|dopson) (pipe|tube) flow], with filing date on or after Jan 1, 2010. It might have been filed before 2010, or it might not have been published yet.I read the comments on the KS page just now. They say Osiris has ten gain levels, which it automatically chooses from to adapt to different pipes, and its detection threshold is quite low (dripping faucet, in their tests). They also say it can report usage in metric or American units. These suggest that they are maybe doing some calculation of flow rate.

author: Khendrask
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 12:19:04 pm
content: Ultrasonic and Magnetic flowmeters for water are real things, but not inexpensive, and they do require knowledge of the actual pipe material, thickness, sensor separation, fluid contamination...I'm sure that more thorough actual patents exist.Typical technology for US flowmeters:http://www.flowmeters.com/ultrasonic-technologyStrap-on sensor US meters also are common, without requiring penetration of the sensing pipe.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2017, 06:49:46 pm
content: QuotePerhaps they might tell us if asked - it's hardly a secret (or shouldn't be). I think it's a case of putting their money where their mouth is, and if they won't give an application ref then they're basically kneed themselves in the goolies and more or less said it's a con.

author: newbadboy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 06:57:37 am
content: I have planned building a similar gadget but then stumbled upon this campaign so i have actually ordered one.Hopefully it will work. The one bad thing with these kind of gadgets is that it's hard to filter out 100% a leakage from taking a shower or so. You will get warnings to the phone that are not valid leakages time to time.