Floppy to Memory Stick adapter with oscilloscopes  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 08:38:48 am
content: Hi,we have a few Tektronix oscilloscopes with only a floppy drive interface at work. My colleagues avoid it like the plague because they can't easily transfer printscreens to a computer. I would like to use them and eventually call dibs on them.Does anyone have experience with such adapter, please ?http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MSAC-FD2M-Floppy-Disk-Adaptor/dp/B0001Y7PNU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_147_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=41E-FEln0CL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0560ESHT8YVV5Z9SQNDHHowever I could find only a memory stick version.Topics I found here on the forum were about replacing a flopy drive interface by emulator which is no-go for me.Regards, Jiri

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 08:40:49 am
content: I have had some good experiences with cheap floppy emulators that read/write to USB sticks. I would avoid the Sony Memory Stick tbh, you're exchanging one dead medium for another.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 09:07:34 am
content: Quote from: krivx on March 22, 2016, 08:40:49 amI appreciate your feedback but as I mentioned in my last sentence I can't open and modify any instrument in the lab. I agree that Memory Stick is dead (thanks god) but some other instruments such as a thermal imaging camera has compact flash so I need a card reader anyway.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 09:42:39 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 22, 2016, 09:07:34 amOh I see, you don't want to remove the original drive. The only advice I can give is to avoid FlashPath adapters, they are not directly compatible with floppy disks and need some drivers installed on the host machine. No clue about the adapter you posted though.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 10:42:45 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 22, 2016, 10:21:53 amI was just gonna suggest this, too. That is by FAR the easiest and most reliable solution, and doesn't require modifying anything (not even drivers on the computer).

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 10:50:11 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 22, 2016, 10:21:53 amIf you can find one which works reliably! I've bought 2 so far and 2 have failed rather quickly even though the last came from a reputable computer parts supplier.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 11:04:08 am
content: You also have to be careful with keeping a supply of known good disks. Disks made into the late 90s seem to be very unreliable nowadays, whereas older disks are a lot better in my experience.

author: mjkuwp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 11:10:14 am
content: Are your colleagues only interested in printscreens and not the underlying data?You can put your smartphone in front of the screen and take a picture.One problem with the floppy drive is that it is probably terribly slllllooooowwww.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 11:25:33 am
content: I think you guys misunderstand. Seems like op wants something to allow inserting a flash drive (or similar) into the slot of the existing floppy drive.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 11:55:28 am
content: Quote from: rdl on March 22, 2016, 11:25:33 amCorrect, thanks !

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 12:02:27 pm
content: Quote from: mjkuwp on March 22, 2016, 11:10:14 amThat's what we do but for internal use only. Some pictures go to the web or official documentation and cellphone pictures don't look professional.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 12:46:48 pm
content: My understanding of the floppy disk format adapters that convert a flash memory card to a floppy disk is that the floppy drive needs to be told where to position it's read/write head in order to align it with the adapters magnetic port.If you cannot load and use the supplied driver on the host 'computer' you cannot use such adapters.These things are not that different in principle to the old Audio cassette adapters that enabled a CD player to be connected to a cassette only in car stereo.The problem is getting the host to align to, and access the small floppy adapter magnetic port. The adapters magnetic port is basically a floppy disk read/write head. You end up with the floppy disk R/W head sitting ion top of the adapters R/W head and magnetic coupling is used to communicate between the two.Fraser

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 22, 2016, 12:39:50 pmAgrhhh... My fault. I read it wrong. I misinterpreted a "flash drive" by a "memory card"What I am thinking about is a dummy floppy disk with memory card inside.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:35:21 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 22, 2016, 12:46:48 pmThat is what I thought but people on Amazon are mentioning that the adapter works together with Sony Mavica cameras. I guess at the time when Mavica used floppies there was no Sony Memory Stick at all.Hmm...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 01:58:47 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 22, 2016, 08:38:48 amThat is a very interesting device, I've never seen one like that. It remembers me of the FM Radio cassette I had many years back, it looked like a normal cassette but had a built-in FM radio so you could listen to the radio on your cassette player/Walkman.So they have something inside there that reads the drive head, finds out what it is doing and then sending data back... And I guess it has to know on what track the head is? Teardown time?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 02:35:34 pm
content: From memory, Sony Mavica firmware had support for these devices built in. At the time floppy disks were cheap and flash memory was very expensive. Some users chose floppies whilst pro users like dentists used the flash to floppy adapters.Fraser

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 03:31:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on March 22, 2016, 02:35:34 pmI see. Thanks for pointing this out.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 04:17:23 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 22, 2016, 12:02:27 pmConsidering that a modern digital camera will have way more resolution than the screen, a camera with good macro and manual everything, with a simple (cardboard?) jig to put it in the right place may produce perfectly acceptable images.But if they use standard floppy formats, an external USB FDD and a box of discs is going to be by far the cheapest and easiest solution.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:35:15 pm
content: This isn't what you asked but why is everyone dead set against using floppy disks? I still use a LOT of them, even 5 1/4" and 8" and I've had no problem with reliability except for an occasional cheap disks. Many of my disks are from the early 1970s and they still work fine. It seems to me that the best solution for you would be to get a USB floppy drive and to buy a few boxes of NOS floppy disks from E-bay or elsewhere and use that. Floppy disk are sort of slow but are still faster and more accurate then taking pictures with a cell phone and then transferring that picture to a computer.Also I'm wondering if your Tektronix oscope doesn't have an HP-IB port. If it does then get a HP-IB cable and a HP-IB to USB adapter and you can connect the scope and computer directly.PS my Mavica Floppy disk camera (FD-73?) still holds a charge and still works!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 05:45:57 pm
content: Having used those horrid things ( Sony camera......) you NEED drivers on the PC to interface with it. The drivers simply implement a seek to home position in the drive, then step in a small amount, and AFAIK use the one head to write control and data to the internal controller which then reads and writes from the MS in the slot. The drive only appears as a floppy drive because of the driver you install ( comes on a separate floppy disc) which detects you inserting the adaptor and hijacking the FDC, using the index pulse and heads to emulate a disk to the drive so it works, and using the driver to emulate another drive ( typically B;) which would read from the MS on it.Clunky, grumpy at times and only really worked with a Sony MS formatted in the camera with the correct filesystem. Not usable as general purpose data transfer.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 07:34:14 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 22, 2016, 05:45:57 pmAh, ok, so no floppy emulation, disappointing but understandable.QuoteAfaik the index pulse in a 3.5" disk is generated by the spindle, and since there is no mechanical connection between the spindle and the adapter I doubt if you can do much with that.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 07:47:01 pm
content: Adaptor has a disk base on it, and a small magnet and hall switch, used both to wake up the onboard MCU ( no power switch, and you can leave the MS in there without killing the CR2032 cells overnight) and to fake an index pulse to synchronise data rate with the FDC. It basically is a pair of transformers used to communicate data ( using a data format that will work with a FDC chipset both ways) insterad of plugging in a serial port MS reader.I still use a Sony optical mouse that has a MS reader in it. For some reason Sony decided that a colour scheme of light grey, darker grey and purple would be appropriate for it....

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 07:58:01 pm
content: I should have looked at the reverse side

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2016, 11:25:16 pm
content: Quote from: wilfred on March 22, 2016, 10:47:28 amMost USB floppy drives present as USB Mass Storage devices, exactly the same as a USB thumb drive, so they should just work with the generic drivers. (Then again, it is MSFT, who knows what oddness they do with regards to drivers…)Quote from: nctnico on March 22, 2016, 10:50:11 amWeird! What kind have they been? I might expect that from the $14 Chinese ones on Amazon, but not from the big drive manufacturers like Sony or Teac.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 10:18:15 am
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 22, 2016, 09:07:34 amI know this won't help you out, but I figured that someone may find this of use if they don't mind opening up their scope.Came across this yesterday.www.ebay.com/itm/291714898226Jay

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 11:24:13 am
content: Quote from: Jwalling on March 23, 2016, 10:18:15 amThey are lots and lots of rebrands of these, shop around.E.g.http://www.ebay.ie/itm/3-5-Slim-USB-Floppy-Drive-Emulator-for-Barudan-Embroidery-Machine-/121770675542?hash=item1c5a190d56:g:8i4AAOSw0HVWBmO5http://www.ebay.ie/itm/1-44MB-USB-SLIMLINE-26PIN-FLAT-CABLE-FLOPPY-DRIVE-EMULATOR-for-Tektronix-TDS420A-/231865502921?hash=item35fc42ccc9:g:8y0AAOSwsB9WBUKK

author: mathsquid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2016, 11:28:26 am
content: Quote from: Jwalling on March 23, 2016, 10:18:15 amFor anyone interested in these sorts of devices, there is a lot of discussion about them on the vintage synthesizer/sequencer forums.

author: iXod
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 06:53:30 pm
content: For CRO scopes perhaps find a solution like this.The hood "hangs" on a slot at the top of the CRT surround. Maybe you can find a viewing hood like this for the TDS420 or like. This one came mounted to a Tek Polaroid camera (originally black color). Any digital camera can be adapted to such a hoodOld school problem requires thinking old school.Cheers.