FLIR ONE PERSONAL THERMAL IMAGING DEVICE FOR YOUR iPHONE5 & 5s - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: PFWAG
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 01:14:02 am
content: Can't wait to get one of these:http://www.flir.com/flirone/explore/$350Comments?

author: jadew
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 01:41:25 am
content: Where did you get that price from?

author: Iphone_hack
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 05:33:35 am
content: The news came out last dec , but still nothing yet.But remember the resolution is only VGA quality for the IR picture.Price might be very attractive for anyone.But due of the hack of the E4, I decided to buy the E4 instead of waiting for flir one.Because E4 resolution was 80 x 60 before the hack.And it was really bad quality. I could not imagine VGA quality.Now with the E4 hack quality is 320 x 240 it is way better same as E8 but paid E4 price.With flir one, it is iPhone 5 or 5s case.Meaning after 2 years, I would still have to keep the iPhone in order to keep using the infrared case?Unless you are buying to have fun, it might be good enough

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 05:52:20 am
content: huh is it me or VGA is 640x480

author: Mr Simpleton
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 08:07:01 am
content: It says VGA for visible camera used for blending, cannot see any data on the IR sensorPrice says less than $350 so assue 349.99....

author: joe-c
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 08:49:24 am
content: It looks interesting... but only for silly apple i-crap.Well... I have seen some Videos from the CES 2014... for me it looks like a 80x60 Thermal Image Interpolated to screen resolution.For me interesting... how the camera data was transfered to the Phone?Via a pin socked clearly, but with which protocol? Maybe it could be used with adapter to another device... like a tablet with better visual Camera.A Tablet with Picture in Picture and this small extra camera assembled to the case. O0

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 11:00:59 am
content: Is this coming out soon? "Reserved" one ages ago on their website.It attaches to the iPhone via the Lightning port, uses USB transport.According to FLIR there will be an SDK for third parties.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 11:30:04 am
content: No sign of it appearing yet - haven't seen any real news since the original announcement.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 12:16:46 pm
content: Maybe they fell foul of a Mu Optics patent?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 01:09:25 pm
content: They recently announced a low- cost ($500 ISTR) lepton based security camera - maybe they figured it would be more profitable to focus on that.http://www.sourcesecurity.com/news/articles/co-9756-ga-co-5188-ga.13978.htmlI've also seen a reference to it going into a new UAV productPerhaps they're having production issues, - such a new sensor tech probably takes time to get decent yields on.The website is still saying Spring, which has come & gone.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 07:50:00 pm
content: Just to clear up the resolution issue that was previously mentioned......VGA is 640 x 480 PixelsQVGA is 320 x 240 PixelsFLIR E4 upgraded to E8 is 320 x 240 thermal Pixels and is a true optical QVGA Camera.The LEPTON core in the FLIR One is 80 x 60 thermal Pixels and does not appear to be a hobbled 320 x 240 micro-bolometer so will not be hackable to QVGA.In thermal imaging circles QVGA is actually considered high resolution but there are 640 x 480 true VGA thermal cameras and higher resolutions available if you can afford the really scary RRP, and can obtain the required IATA licences to purchaseSadly, for me, the FLIR ONE is a bit of a toy for the well healed iphone owner. I have no issue with it as a product though as it opens up the market to thermal imaging which was beyond most consumers pocket until recently. This can only be good if it increased production of such technology and reduces costs. I am more interested in the thermal CCTV camera that FLIR may be releasing. 80 x 60 pixels is a real issue for me though. If the LEPTON core were 160 x 120 pixels at the same projected cost, it would be a killer product, as even with a 9 fps refresh it would be perfect for UAV experiments and security applications.

author: Iphone_hack
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 08:23:12 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on June 11, 2014, 07:50:00 pmThanks for clear the confusion for me.Actually I was going to point out that the cheapest or lower quality thermal camera for flir is the E4Saying that, I don't think the $350 flir one could take same same quality as the E4Because that would kill the sale of the E4Unless flir is thinking selling high volumes instead of large profit margin on each unit.In my opinion the flir one will be a toy, rather than a tool.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2014, 10:37:09 pm
content: Quote from: Iphone_hack on June 11, 2014, 08:23:12 pmYes, Flir One is a toy, but good publicity and a useful demonstrator for more serious applications, like security.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:06:36 pm
content: Quote from: subolg123 on June 12, 2014, 02:59:36 pmHoax may be a little strong, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't appear in the form originally shown, or at all. Showing it at CES certainly gave them a ton of publicity, and the demo units looked pretty well engineered.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:49:49 pm
content: Quote from: subolg123 on June 12, 2014, 02:59:36 pmIt depends if FLIR can make FLIR ONE as throwaway as a typical mobile phone, and still able to convince people to pay $300350 for such throwaway. The throwaway part is easy to do, but do they think there are enough people willing to pay S$300350 on a throwaway peripheral is the tricky part.

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:54:00 pm
content: As if to dispel speculation on this threadFLIR just announced sales will start at the end of July:http://online.wsj.com/articles/flir-systems-iphone-camera-sales-set-for-july-1402583719Seems the design is unchanged, price expected to be $349.I'm particularly keen on the developer features.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:58:02 pm
content: Quote from: josem on June 12, 2014, 03:54:00 pmPaywalled article - anyone have the text?

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:02:28 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 12, 2014, 03:58:02 pmI just put the WSJ URLs on Google, click from there and it shows me the full text - for some stupid web marketing reason.Try this:http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticles%2Fflir-systems-iphone-camera-sales-set-for-july-1402583719&ei=p86ZU76uLPOS7AaXsoHoBA&usg=AFQjCNGjKJL6pPEzVRsGUpOhrQaC5qovkQ&bvm=bv.68911936,d.ZGUedit: Here's a PDF link if that doesn't work:https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6onw9zzd4yynb0/Flir%20Systems%27%20iPhone%20Camera%20Sales%20Set%20for%20July%20-%20WSJ.pdf

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:28:14 pm
content: QuoteAt that price, I doubt it, but plausible if it ever gets closer to a "cool toy" price range. The phone casing type packaging is probably a limiting factor on how cheap it can get in its current form though - tooling for different phones. etc.A Lepton core on the end of a USB cable, or a generic bluetooth model for $99 could get really interesting though.QuoteAny bets on actual general availablity - Christmas perhaps?QuoteSeems like they will be missing out on a lot of the "cool Xmas gift" opportunity then

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:40:37 pm
content: The fact this article appeared first in the WSJ and not tech press says a lot...

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 05:19:57 pm
content: They're not aiming for niche techie market so the form fitting casing choice makes sense. It needs no dangling cables, no pairing frustations, lag or wasted battery powering some wireless interface to keep the two in sync. It's always joined with the phone even while charging and can go in the pocket.From a usability point of view this is really the best they can achieve without getting integrated into the phone itself.Will they find enough to convince non-techies to buy it? Not sure, but their brief list of applications looks interesting: "home inspectors to monitor insulation and energy efficiency, and others for athletic coaches and personal trainers to track body temperature." and I'm sure given time and a good SDK developers will find even more.From the WSJ article the end of Julyisthe actual shipping date.

author: Iphone_hack
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 05:39:37 pm
content: WellFlir has to think carefulRemember it is case for iPhone 5 or 5sThis summer apple is releasing iPhone 6So even the price of $350, people might think again before buying.Because meaning that you have to keep the iPhone 5 or 5s in order to use itThe longer flir waits, the more it has to think which iPhone model it will the case be used for.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 05:26:14 am
content: Quote from: josem on June 12, 2014, 05:19:57 pmOfcourse, just tell them it can see through clothing

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 06:46:27 am
content: Flir have told me they are reading this forum and will respond directly about the FLIR ONE.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 06:47:41 am
content: Quote from: subolg123 on June 12, 2014, 02:59:36 pmCare to provide the links yourself?

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 07:00:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2014, 06:46:27 amI would also like to know what they think of the E4 to E8 hack ...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 08:11:46 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on June 13, 2014, 07:00:18 amIsn't it obvious? They released firmware to stop it right? (or has that been hacked again?)

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 09:17:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2014, 08:11:46 amWell, they just prevented users to connect their FLIRs to their PCs, so you can't transfer the images or videos to your computer.sure it does prevent people from hacking the FLIR but they all probably end up back in the warehouse due to lack of advertised features.(disclaimer, I don't own or have access to a FLIR camera)

author: pwherry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 08:57:58 pm
content: I ordered a FLIR ONE a while back and received it a couple of days ago.So far I'm fairly impressed. The integration of visible-light edge detection information makes the image look a lot better than one might think given the relatively low (80x60) resolution of the IR sensor.Interestingly, the FLIR Tools app (free download from the Apple app store) reveals quite a bit more information than the FLIR ONE app. I tried imaging a sub-freezing solution (crushed ice + bourbon for those who might wish to repeat this most enjoyable experiment) and the most I could get from the FLIR ONE app was "<32ºF". Saving this image to the camera roll and then opening it in FLIR Tools revealed a measured temperature of 11ºF. It could well be that the accuracy is badly compromised outside the rated range, but it's interesting that the information is available at all.The news is not all good, however.Like many folks, I'm also anticipating the release of the next iPhone. I found a Lightning extender cable (the CableJive dockXtender; $26) and have successfully used the camera separated from my iPhone 5S and connected via the cable. The unfortunate thing, though, is that the FLIR ONE software checks the device model on which it's running and simply displays an error if it's not an iPhone 5 or 5S. So I could not, for example, run the software on my iPad Air even though there's no technical reason why it shouldn't work.I tried opening a case with FLIR support that explained I'd successfully used a Lightning extension cable, suggesting that the compatibility message be turned into a warning rather than completely preventing the app from running on hardware that was electrically compatible with the camera.The results were predictably discouraging.They almost immediately sent me a form-letter response telling me the device wasn't made to fit upcoming iPhone hardware and that it wouldn't work for that reason.After I wrote back to gently suggest they read my original message more carefully, they again responded--suggesting this time that Apple developer licensing rules prevented them from doing this.I pointed out that there was a big gulf between endorsing/recommending/supporting an extension cord solution and simply updating their software so that it didn't break unnecessarily when a user tried to do something unsupported but nonetheless useful. Their final reply to this suggestion was, and I quote, "Thank you for your comprehension." I'm glad that they feel I comprehend, but my confidence in their comprehension remains somewhat low.The device has a 30-day return policy, so I'll hold on to it for at least another couple of weeks. If it looks like they're going to update the app software to permit my very tame unsupported use, it's a great device that I'll keep with no hesitation. But if there's no sign of movement on a very basic concession to users like me, I'll probably wind up returning it.Phil

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 09:40:18 pm
content: I have a feeling that the processing may make use of the accelerometer to augment the non-uniformity correction, which could be a real reason for not supporting on other platforms, however I can entirely believe that it's entirely down to Apple douchebaggery.

author: pwherry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 09:50:38 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 13, 2014, 09:40:18 pmIf they're doing this, the effect is subtle: I'm not seeing noticeably worse images with the camera separated from the (stationary) iPhone.I think Apple factors into this because they maintain tight control over the Lightning electrical interface/connector. I can believe that FLIR is enjoined from offering an extension cable or possibly even recommending/supporting one. But there's just no way Apple is requiring them to make their app stop working if a user tries to fire it up on another Lightning-compatible iOS device; that decision is purely in FLIR's hands.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 09:58:23 pm
content: Quote from: pwherry on August 13, 2014, 09:50:38 pmIf they were using it, what I'd expect is if the cam is stationary for a while, and then the phone moved without moving the cam, you may see some changes in the image, I think I did see some reference to motion sensing in a patent application, though it could be integrated into the flirone or even the sensor.

author: pwherry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 10:41:01 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 13, 2014, 09:58:23 pmI'll try this and let you know what happens.

author: mjkuwp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2014, 11:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: pwherry on August 13, 2014, 09:50:38 pmWhat makes you so sure of this?This seems like something Apple would totally do if it suits them to do so. why is Whatsapp blocked from being installed on iPod touch which is incredibly similar hardware to iPhone? The answer - greed...I think.Maybe the incompatibility is real. The iPod touch has a different cpu iirc and the iPads have different screen resolution?? or camera? Sorry I am not an Apple expert but I Imagine the software is not easy and by limiting development to one product they made things considerable more easy on themselves.I plan to borrow an iPhone from work to test my Flir One and later get a used 5S

author: josem
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 01:46:22 am
content: I have the Structure sensor (a patterned IR projector and camera, kind of like a Kinect) for 3D capture on the iPad and while the attachment is meant for the iPad - only comes with an IPad mount - and uses Lightning, lots of people including me use it with the iPhone as well. No problems of limitations with doing that.It's almost the same type of device, a special camera and built-in rechargeable battery, so if that doesn't have limitations it doesn't make sense that there would be for FLIR.

author: pwherry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 02:09:43 am
content: Quote from: mjkuwp on August 13, 2014, 11:04:25 pmI'm going to have to ask you to trust me on this point but will state that I chose my words carefully. I don't have any insider information from FLIR but can't really comment on Apple's rules for the Lightning connector without violating an NDA. I will note that Apple, while very controlling in their approach, has historically been quite consistent in the application of their developer/app rules; big companies and independent developers really do play by the very same rules.

author: pwherry
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 06:21:39 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 13, 2014, 09:58:23 pmJust FYI - I tried this experiment: camera in a fixed position cabled to the phone, with the phone stationary at first and then moved about at various speeds. No changes that I could see in the image.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 14, 2014, 09:36:48 pm
content: Got mine! Yay!Some pics:Unboxinghttp://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/citev/unboxing_zps5fad9cb7.jpgWhat's in the boxhttp://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/citev/boxcontents_zps16563b08.jpgThe unit:http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/citev/unit_zps08c85559.jpgSome pictures. These are straight out of the camera at full resolution with no adjustments in Photoshop except for the number label on the corner:http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/citev/Flir1_zps136f99ee.jpgEdited to add: The first row and first edge artifact on the images are also straight out of the camera.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2014, 06:10:20 am
content: Having had some hours to use this, I have to say, so far I quite like it. I've procured a bigger belt pouch for my phone to have ithandy all the time.The world looks pretty different in IR. Laptop power supplies glow brightly, and it's easy to spot gaps in hot water pipe insulation,and my friends are amused by what they look like in IR. The software app has the usual save to photos/share button where youcan post your pic to Facebook or whatever like any other image related software on the iPhone. It's also extrememly easy to use,with the only work required being manually pulling down the calibration lever. On that note, the audio/visual cue to pull down thecalibration lever is well done (i.e., not obtrusive).It's certainly a lot of fun, but as for whether or not it's an important tool, well I guess only time will tell. It's a newcapability for me to have in a tool I'd have on me all the time. There's a lot of smartphone apps that I wouldn't have thought "important"until I wanted to use them and couldn't due to being on a plane or something. Tools have a funny way of doing that.

author: avvidclif
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2014, 04:35:35 am
content: Mine has shipped and arrival is next Thur. Hopefully.For those wondering about uses. I do component level repair of electronics and this will allow me to check for overheated devices without using the burnt finger method.. That's the primary use and then there's the household checks for leaking air. Checking my RV for hot and cold spots. Looking for overheated breakers in the breaker box. Put on your thinking cap and you can come up with hundreds of uses. Legitimate that is. Who's got the hottest girlfriend.....

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 04:14:50 pm
content: Just found some Lepton module photos in a Japanese version of the data briefhttp://www.ads-tec.co.jp/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/60ca15c34f4de0db13e855f1775c9556.pdfthe front contacts are to connect to a shutter - I think I saw this in a patent or somewhere....

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 05:27:02 pm
content: OK, that's a game-changer.Cameras with 'focus-on-the-face' just got easy. PIR sensors for security just got complicated - although 190mW is too much for sane battery use.Toys just got very, very interesting.So many things that needed hard amounts of processing to spot people in pictures are about to get a massive assist - and it's so tiny!I hope these things are manufacturable in volume, and they've got a line running.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 06:18:53 pm
content: Take one, add a small LCD and make the worlds smallest thermal camera with it. Think what Mike could do with 500 nano displays and 500 of these as some responsive art.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 07:32:28 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on August 19, 2014, 06:18:53 pmStay tunedMaybe not 500 though

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2014, 11:16:49 pm
content: I have just seen that FLIR have been giving Journalists free Lepton based compact cameras to demonstrate the technolgy. I am amazed that they have not offered such to the public as it looks pretty neat and no iphone needed !I want one alreadyCome on FLIRT, do a genral public release version !See here:http://www.sourcesecurity.com/news/articles/co-9756-ga-co-5188-ga-sb.14647.html

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 03:13:36 am
content: My supervisor has an iPhone 5 and we picked up the FLIR One. This has proved to be useful in looking at parts coming out of our injection molder for tuning. I have also found it interesting to look at thermals of a circuit under operation.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2014, 04:10:27 am
content: Mike, you could make a production run of those like Dave did with the ucurrents...........

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 10:30:17 pm
content: If anybody needs a belt pouch that fits the phone with the FLIR ONE on it, I bought one of these and it fits perfectly!http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CS8IMDE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1Even has belt loops!

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2014, 10:41:16 pm
content: Should add a couple of (I thought) interesting observationsYou can easily see fingerprints glowing on a computer keyboard, with the exception of a laptop keyboard (already hot).I walked across a carpet (with shoes), and was able to see my footprints glowing in the carpet. That surprised me.Metal's thermal conductivity prevents a good handprint from staying on it, but touch so much as a napkin or a newspaperand you can get a really solid image from less than a second of contact. Anything that's a bad conductor of heat does that.When you show it to people, they say "wow, that's cool a lot"It has proven useful already. The old, unused mailslot by the door bleeds heat like crazy. Need to stuff some fiberglass insulation in there.When Mike first posted about this gadget, I was very excited about it. Now that I have one, I am totally satisfied. With allthe other apps I have on my phone, the IR capability makes it almost a tricorder!

author: avvidclif
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2014, 04:19:52 pm
content: Disclaimer: I have never used an IR camera before.First observations;Inside a house it works rather well. Hot and cold spots show up. I still haven't figured out the trick to the spot thermometer, sometimes it comes on and other times not? Probably my error. I took it outside after dark and was not impressed. It seems the range is limited. I had a large dog about 35' away and it barely would show him. He was laying on the ground so that may have been a factor.Overall I'm happy with it. I downloaded the other FLIR apps but haven't tried them yet. I haven't had a chance to try it on PCB's which was my main goal, looking for hotspots on a PCB.Still trying to figure out all the different color schemes, guess I need to research IR modes....

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 09:28:58 am
content: Teardown part 1

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 11:42:34 am
content: ..and surprisingly it runs Linux....

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 11:52:17 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 27, 2014, 11:42:34 amI can already see this been hacked into Flir One Ultra Pro Plus Extra, can't wait for part 2.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 03:40:06 pm
content: Thanks Mike, great teardownFLIR will likely be watching their newest 'baby' being dissected..... interesting times for themAurora

author: ixfd64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 04:22:19 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 27, 2014, 11:42:34 amAre you going to try to find out how to root it?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 04:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: ixfd64 on August 27, 2014, 04:22:19 pmNot intending to - tried a few logins but no joy.Can't see you'd be able to do much useful - I suppose you could have it spit images out of the debug UART.Or maybe get it to talk USB to a PC...?I've now pretty much figured out the protocol to the sensor, which is what I'm mostly interested in. Why have an I-phone sized board running Linux when you can talk to a sugarcube sized sensor direct?

author: imau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 04:55:19 pm
content: So, it seems max resolution could not exceed 160x120.Is that right?

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 07:03:54 pm
content: Just FYI on the battery. Unless there is a setting I haven't noticed, it doesn't share power with the phone.I've only charged it once since I have it, and it still has 75%charge. My iPhone, on the other hand drawsdown pretty far every day.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 07:06:28 pm
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on August 27, 2014, 07:03:54 pmI recall some mention of charging the phone when it was launched, and there is a DC/DC converter that I think may be there for the purpose - not looked closely yet. Maybe it only does it if plugged into a 2A charger, or once the F1 battery has charged.A bit of a PITA to have to remove it to charge the phone seperately.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 07:16:15 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 27, 2014, 07:06:28 pmIt's a minor annoyance, but it would be nice to charge the whole stack at once. There's certainly no "plugged in" indicator on the phone.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 27, 2014, 10:50:25 pm
content: Some of the "other" apps mentioned by avvidclif are:A closeup app, that allows you fine tune the visible image adjustment for parallax on close focus images (this works fine, but there are limits).A panoramic app.A time-lapse app that I am itching to try. Apart from not having your phone on you, that could be really useful.A "paint" app that allows you to superimpose thermal on visible, rather than other way around like it normally works.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2014, 01:21:21 pm
content: Great teardown. That little sensor package is so cute... I wonder how long it'll be before smartphones start coming with them integrated as an option, with them being so easy to interface.FYI the Apple connector ID chip is not much more than a 1-wire EEPROM that holds information about what the cable is and probably things like a serial number; the fact thattheir custom chip also has "2501" on the diereminds me of the DS2501 infamously used in Dell's laptop AC adapters for a similar purpose... and comparing the BQ2024/6 datasheets with the DS2501/2 ones, theyareverysimilar.(I may be the first one on the Internet to notice this similarity.)It might be possible to connect a Flir One to an Android device via USB OTG...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 28, 2014, 02:38:26 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on August 28, 2014, 01:21:21 pm

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 29, 2014, 11:11:21 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 28, 2014, 02:38:26 pmAs a matter of fact,they did. The links in that thread provide some more info including a basic pinout and a (very) high-level overview of the communication. If it shows up as a USB (OTG) device to the iPhone, like a standard webcam, then there's a good chance of it being hackable to work on any Android device without needing to disassemble it and work with the sensor directly.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 12:13:15 am
content: Teardoen Part Two

author: RobertHolcombe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 12:22:31 am
content: That custom breakout board is really impressive

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 01:33:38 am
content: Quote from: RobertHolcombe on August 31, 2014, 12:22:31 amHe does sell them:http://www.whitewing.co.uk/protoboard.html

author: RobertHolcombe
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 01:51:16 am
content: I was referring to the video around 2:40 onwards, using the PLCC socket as a jig

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 02:00:13 am
content: I am amazed by your proficiency with that scope Mike. At the same time I dont think I could work with scopes limitations (UI, buffer size, screen estate).My first thought is slurping everything raw (Saleae clone), decoding on the pc and throwing it at wireshark, custom python script, or even spreadsheet.No need to trigger when you can simply filter, run statistics, and test on the fly.As always loved the video, especially the 'boring parts' at the end

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 02:00:51 am
content: Mike,Once again I am very impressed by your superb skillset....thanks for the excellent insight into the LEPTON

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 09:14:49 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on August 31, 2014, 02:00:13 amYes, you could do it that way, but with a scope you get a lot of info very quickly in real time, with good visibility of relationships between signals. Certainly way better for the earlier stages of reverse-engineering. If a protocol turns out to be more complex, then a dump & analyse process is probably the way to go.Probably the biggest limitation on this scope is that it won't save lister data in all segments to a single CSV file.I probably ought to learn Python at some point....

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 09:26:10 am
content: I've been keeping an eye on ebay sales, and F1's have been selling for over $500 as recently as the 28th.There have been a few going cheaper in the last week, but the avarage is still well over $400Considering that they are also supposed to be in US Apple stores now this seems odd - I wonder if Flir's delivery rate has been rather slow.Anyone here passing a US Apple store in the next few days? - might be interesting to drop in ask about availability.Still no news of EU availability.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 10:02:09 am
content: I made a direct approach to FLIR regarding the purchase of a LEPTON sample. They did not even acknowledge my request. Considering I was asking ion behalf of a company, this was surprising. It would appear that FLIR are only interested in selling their new baby in their own products for the moment.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 10:14:27 am
content: Mike, are those cheap video glasses relative to the Flir One? Predator vision?Alexander.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 12:01:31 pm
content: Great work again!That module looks amazingly easy to interface. As there is GPIO and provision for a shutter, that's what I would expect some of the register bits to control. There might also be some means for it to say "I need calibration", either a bit or some sort of "estimated error/badness" value.Bit 0 of register 2 appears to be related to the die temperature sensor - if it's set it tries to read it again, waiting until it clears before reading the temperature from register 8. It also checks it before attempting to write to registers 6/4, so I'd guess it's some sort of "busy" bit for the temperature sensor. During calibration it actually writes what looks like a temperature to reg 8, but the sequence before that, to reg 4, is also different.I was almost expecting the Linux bootup messages to contain a "Hello Mike :-)"...

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 12:03:08 pm
content: I work for an apple retailer, and when apple wants some device for their applestore, they can have an exclusivity for itand then it's impossible to find it anywhere else in the world but in an apple store ... (and of course not in an apple retailer !)

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 12:30:09 pm
content: I expected the whole PCB to be potted as an anti Mike countermeasure !

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 01:00:15 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on August 31, 2014, 10:02:09 amA while ago I enquired and it was a MOQ of 1000 at $250 each. If they are selling F1 in Apple stores at $350 there is clearly a lot of potential for reduction from $250, especially if Seek Thermal delivers - a 32K pixel product for $250 would make the F1 look pretty pricy. I do sort of wonder if it's 32K real pixels though.Requiring a MOQ at an early stage is pretty understandable as they need to prioritise production and support resources to big users, however with potential competition coming along, they could do with as many design-ins as possible early on.What may be interesting, once F1 shipments are flowing, is to approach them to buy lower qtys on an unsupported basis, now that the info is out there.Once the Iphone 6 comes out, we may also see the price of used F1's dropping.I'm also curious as to how someone persuaded Mouser to order 4800 sockets, with an apparent commitment to buy only 12. Mouser are a Flir distributor BTW.http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/105028-1001/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlOED0T0kTWh0BiEHzb9ghWell at least they'll shift a few more thanks to me...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 01:12:17 pm
content: Interesting, I just noticed that someone has ordered 100 sockets from Mouser since yesterday.

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 02:43:56 pm
content: Is Flir One for sale already?I tried the Flir site, and it says:QuoteWhich is weird.Ebay is also pretty much empty of them, except for a few suspicious offers at twice the price.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 02:51:45 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 31, 2014, 01:12:17 pm..and now stock has gone back to 4788.... maybe they changed their mind!

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 02:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: Artlav on August 31, 2014, 02:43:56 pmIt's been orderable in US for about a month, EU was supposed to be "mid-August"there are usually a few on Ebay US but some won't ship outside US, and most are a bit pricy. A few have gone for $300-400. Auctions (as opposed to Buy it Now) tend to end around $400-450.I lucked out on a buy it now for $375, which was the cheapest for at least a week afterwards (I was checking several times a day!).Another issue that may put off US sellers is that Ebay pops up a message about export controls, which is rather vague and misleading, and may scare some off.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 03:29:00 pm
content: I just ordered a couple of Mike's custom prototype boards....they look darned useful !Thanks for making them available Mike.Aurora

author: Artlav
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 03:37:21 pm
content: I don't think i'll ever get to it, so here is an idea free of charge:http://orbides.1gb.ru/photobot.php?lng=engWith this 2D scanning rig, a ZNSe lens and a single "pixel" MWIR photodiode i was able to get thermal images of over a megapixel in resolution (albeit taking 30 minutes to take).Now, what if you put the Lepton sensor on the caret?Should easily give you a 1-4 megapixel thermal camera (doing one frame per minute, but these are the trade-offs).

author: MrSquirrel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 04:49:20 pm
content: Awesome stuff, really enjoyed watching the videos.Looks like these students managed to get their hands on a Lepton early on.http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/academics/undergrad/capstone/documents-2014/ir-scout-poster.pdfI guess this qualifies as one of those "unusual applications" Mike was talking about.Here's some excellent info on the protocol:http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/academics/undergrad/capstone/documents-2014/ir-scout-presentation.pdfHelpfully they include a diagram at the end of the document.http://www.ece.ucsb.edu/academics/undergrad/capstone/documents-2014/ir-scout-user-manual.pdf

author: orion242
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 05:35:32 pm
content: Great work Mike!Moving a scope with decode up my wish list. Seeing you put that to work, really pointed our how much time it can save.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 06:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: MrSquirrel on August 31, 2014, 04:49:20 pmEither that's an earlier/different module, or they messed up the PCB - the pinout is a mirror image of mine.The schematic symbol matches mine exactly though.Interesting that they don't seem to be using I2C eitherDate on those docs seems to be today - I wonder if they had an NDA that ceases when info becomes public elsewhere

author: majbthrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 07:00:36 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 31, 2014, 02:51:45 pmMike, you seem to be making waves in the supply chain with your excellent endeavor! Now the Mouser stock shows 1200 immediately available and Newark/Element14 shows 12,560 available as "supplier direct ship". If they will only stay that way, this could be interesting.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 07:05:18 pm
content: Quote from: majbthrd on August 31, 2014, 07:00:36 pmThat's a different socket.

author: majbthrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2014, 08:56:03 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 31, 2014, 07:05:18 pmI am SO embarrassed. My apologies.In my defense, I read "24 pin socket to make into 32 pin Molex 47337-0001" on your web page and somehow leap to the conclusion that the part number was the equivalent after conversion.Regardless, I should have reasoned through this before posting.I was hoping that the SMK CLE9132 might be a possible alternative (not that it seems any more plentiful), but even if the mechanicals were viable, the contacts meet on the base of the camera module, not the sides.

author: Hypernova
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 01, 2014, 01:15:53 am
content: Logic decoding: I guess it's time to upgrade to a 3000X, it's got two decode channels.Didn't think of doing a socket that neatly, my first thought would have been to solder on the pins to the PCB one by one by hand.Given all the heavy lifting is done on module, what does the long term drift and accuracy look like?All in all we got a great trend going here, got a "E8" myself so in no hurry for one but imagine getting 360x240 in the same form factor in five years!

author: IRspector
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 10:28:38 am
content: Interesting video

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2014, 06:05:06 pm
content: Just received a couple of Mike's prototype PCB's (as seen in the video)....very impressed. If you are in the market for such a board I can recommend it.Aurora

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 05:17:55 am
content: I wonder if that timing issue an start-up that mike found is intentional.Maybe some sort of internal random delay function based on serial number to prevent people using multiple sensors chips with an offset clock to build a combined image with higher FPS and/or resolution.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 08:49:17 am
content: Quote from: Psi on September 03, 2014, 05:17:55 amNo because it's only a 1-off synchronisation issue - once synced it stays in sync, with no obvious jitter in the frame timing, so it would in principle be possible to phase-lock the clock, though the fact that you have to poll & read 164 bytes to determine start of frame would make it a bit fiddly.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 04:34:35 pm
content: Just had a long chat with a very reliable source in the USF1 should be in stock in Europe the middle of this month.

author: MattSR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 10:40:29 pm
content: Heh, they can't even deliver in time in the US..

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 10:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: MattSR on September 03, 2014, 10:40:29 pmI'm told the US backlog was cleared in 5 days and they are in all Apple stores (though don't seem to be in the Apple online store)My source was puzzled as to why people are still paying $400-500 on ebay..!

author: MattSR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2014, 11:47:28 pm
content: I ordered one direct from FLIR on the 31st August and just received an email then to say it's delayed until the 16th...

author: MattSR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:47:34 am
content: ...and no sooner had I put that post up, I received an email from FLIR to say that the item is shipped and is with Fedex. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to get form wherever it is, to my friends place in California...!

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 04:58:17 am
content: Quote from: MattSR on September 03, 2014, 10:40:29 pmFor what it's worth, mine showed up promptly.Interesting thing is how quickly you get used to having it on you. My phone feels weird without it.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:38:49 pm
content: Given that the hardware seems overkill for the task (Linux?), I think it's likely they took an existing camera platform they had, named "Rosebud" as you can see on the PCB, and put an iPhone interface on it. If I was doing this from scratch it wouldn't be much more than a USB hub with the visible camera and Lepton connected to it through a standard webcam chipset (the GPIOs these have could be used to control other functions like the Lepton I2C), and let the app on the phone do everything else including merging the images together. If low-cost Chinese "thermal webcams" start appearing, this is what I'd expect them to do.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 12:44:10 pm
content: Hard to tell what processing they are doing where, but the processor does seem overkill - I doubt it's from an existing product as it's pretty different to anything else they make, but it could be they chose this approach due to existing libraries for things like the USB comms.If nothing else it will be pulling rather more power than it needs to get the job done.

author: majbthrd
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2014, 12:44:10 pmI thought that too; the Linux "gadget" driver might have saved them time/cost. However, for the quantities they hope to sell in, surely it would have behooved them to just buy a license to USB device stack firmware from one of countless vendors and use a more efficient embedded processor (and a lot less flash and memory).The jaded and pessimistic conclusion I came to was that FLIR developers on staff were more familiar with developing at a higher level. (Look at the use of Windows CE in the E series.) So, perhaps something more efficient didn't occur to them or seemed higher risk.If the Flir ONE had a LCD, I could believe that it might be a trial effort for exploring the development hurdles in Linux versus CE (to potentially save licensing cost).Alternatively, with interest in Raspberry PI, etc., perhaps FLIR wanted something more "hackable"? (I've heard talk from "marketing" types in corporate environments who see the "maker" crowd as guinea pigs to do product exploration on their own dime. Then, if a product shows commercial potential, they swing in for the credit.)

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
content: Need an even smaller thermal imager...?

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 11:03:44 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2014, 09:50:25 pmmike, how to order one?

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 11:07:19 pm
content: FLIR definitely need to consider employing Mike in their product design team

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2014, 11:17:45 pm
content: You had to include Predator! Excellent!!!

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 04:19:33 am
content: I am stunned this whole series isn't on Hackaday yet.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 08:56:22 am
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on September 05, 2014, 04:19:33 amI don't think it will be long....

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 09:24:36 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 05, 2014, 08:56:22 amI don't think so either. It's probably already in the pipeline they undoubtedly have.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 09:28:04 am
content: Quote from: majbthrd on September 04, 2014, 09:18:00 pmOr it simply offered no benefit for the required target market.I'm not surprised at all they did it that high level really.QuoteI doubt that. FLIR don't strike me as the company that would have that in their DNA.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 09:34:47 am
content: Quote from: MrSquirrel on August 31, 2014, 04:49:20 pmThat's an awesome project!Sounds like they had some mentors at Flir, maybe as part a work experience program or some such.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 10:00:01 am
content: Has anybody ever built a thermal bullet-time rig?If you had a bunch of those Lepton sensors...Not sure what such a thing would be useful for, but it sure would be interesting.Maybe as a design aid for watching cold and hot air interact through a cooling system for something.Or if you had just 2, you could do stereo pairs. That could be fun too.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 10:16:28 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on September 05, 2014, 09:34:47 amThere is a mention somewhere that Flir sponsored it.I don't think as it stands it's too useful - it would need the MSX to make any sense of the images. I think you could probably make something with fewer, better cameras that automatically oriented itself downwards

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 10:50:45 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2014, 09:50:25 pmSIMPLY AMAZING !Mike, you already stuned me with all the work you've done. this one is even more impressive !any idea when we can get a lepton sensor alone ?what microcontroller do you use in the smallest thermal imager ?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 11:09:36 am
content: Quote from: kripton2035 on September 05, 2014, 10:50:45 amCurrently the only options are to harvest from a Flir One or buy 1000 at $250 each from Flir

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 12:02:29 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 05, 2014, 10:16:28 amThat was my first thought, but this looks coolerAll it needs is some hover capability:That reminds me of part of a patent I worked on for an underwater device that was designed to right itself in one of two orientations on the sea floor.Original designs called for any orientation etc, but in the end it was simpler and better to design it to fall into one of those two orientations.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2014, 12:09:30 pm
content: Great work, you've created the Flir Nano!If 1000 people want to buy one...1h with a 220mAh battery vs. 2h with a 1400mAh in the One (+ whatever the iPhone needs)... that's quite a huge difference. Of course the One does more processing on the image and shows actual temperature, but I don't think that would require so much more power.Quote from: majbthrd on September 04, 2014, 09:18:00 pmThey're a large company, and one thing that tends to happen with large companies is overwhelming amounts of bureaucracy, so their designs also tend to mirror that inefficiency. This is particularly noticeable with the "enterprise software" industry. Maybe it was really intended to be a standalone low-cost camera with an LCD at some point, but this is another explanation for their design decisions.

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 03:57:24 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 04, 2014, 09:50:25 pmWow... Awesome! I love it!http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/lepton.html@ David (EEvBlog admin): Please, add the above emoticon (or similar), to the others.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 04:36:50 pm
content: Since (some) sensors can do faster than 19Hz frame rates, but aren't allowed to, has anyone done a spinning disc shutter that constantly does 1 frame calibration, 1 frame real image?No pesky dead-time while an intermittent shutter shambles up and down, nice easy mechanicals, doesn't take much power compared to hard acceleration, nice frequent calibration...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2014, 09:27:11 pm
content: That was used in BST cameras but has the disadvantage of spinning parts. Microbolometers were considered by many to be better as no spinning chopper wheel was needed.

author: SPRX
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2014, 04:38:44 am
content: Great work Mike,Excellent !!!

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2014, 08:53:20 am
content: Well it took a couple of days, but Mike's series finally made it on to Hackaday:http://hackaday.com/2014/09/07/building-the-worlds-smallest-thermal-camera/

author: Lukas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2014, 02:22:40 pm
content: Just thinking about the parallax problem with MSX: Would it be possible to completely eliminate the parallax issue by placing two visible light cameras next to the thermal imaging one? I'm thinking of interpolating the picture a camera placed in the middle between these two would see by some DSP magic.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2014, 02:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: Lukas on September 08, 2014, 02:22:40 pmYes, though I think the way to do it would be to correlate the 2 visible camera signals to get a distance estimate, which is then applied to the thermal image.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2014, 09:33:12 pm
content: Appears to be orderable in UK nowhttp://shopuk.flir.com/dp/B00K0PXFB6though site is still a bit of a mess - some links take you to the US "not orderable outside US" link

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2014, 10:30:40 pm
content: I cannot see buying one of these at that price to use as more than very expensive toy when it will become useless when the phone dies or is replaced. Phones have such a short half-life now that I am reluctant to rely on them for anything expensive or important.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2014, 02:20:32 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on September 08, 2014, 10:30:40 pmThat may be so, but I'm committed to using my iPhone 5 for the next couple years. After that? Free Lepton sensor!

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2014, 02:30:00 am
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on September 09, 2014, 02:20:32 amBy that time the market will be saturated with cheaper and more accessible sensors you will think.Edit: since everyone seems to be ramping up lately on FIR

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2014, 03:34:05 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on September 09, 2014, 02:30:00 amI very much hope you're right. There would be a lot of cool stuff to build with such things. Like that thermal bullet-time rig I mentioned up-thread. In the meantime, I can have two years of fun with my FLIR ONE and still get a perfectly useable sensor out of it later.

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 09:16:20 am
content: Hi guys.I noticed a project on Hackaday.io that would probably interest many of you:http://hackaday.io/project/3000-Flir-Lepton-Thermal-Camera-BreakoutGroup buy of Lepton modules:https://groupgets.com/campaigns/27-flir-lepton-thermal-imager-batch-1Tindie campaign for breakout board:https://www.tindie.com/products/PureEngineering/flir-lepton-thermal-camera-breakout-2/

author: StevenH
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 10:29:55 am
content: Hi all.FLIR is doing the buzz.Another campain around their small IR sensor.Some videos made by these guys (Pure Eng.) posted on Utube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd5KmuOLQ2wd_HibbCku0agI tried to join the campain on Groupgets but can't register : does anyone try too??$257 to buy one LEPTON module could be interesting.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 11:27:52 am
content: TBH I think they'll struggle to shift many at the current price, more so via an unknown CF site only shipping to the US.Once F1 is widely available, and people start ditching their Iphone 5's for the new one I think we'll see used F1s going fairly cheap, and then there is the potential of Seek Thermal to disrupt things - if nothing else that may also force a price cut on F1, either directly or indirectly from people selling to upgrade.

author: StevenH
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 12:17:20 pm
content: Hi.i checked a few things on the web.i'm afraid that this campain would be another bull*** (like MuOptics was).The guy behind Pure Eng. LLC is also a guy working at Groupgets...https://groupgets.com/abouthttp://www.linkedin.com/in/sashionoPURE ENG. is own by Yasashi Ono & has been created 2 months ago..http://www.bizapedia.com/ca/PURE-ENGINEERING-LLC.htmlWho has heard about this "crowfunding" company before?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 12, 2014, 02:59:58 pm
content: I think it's genuine but the guy is being rather optimistic about takeup. Apparently Flir are still saying MOQ1000 but would ship in batches of 100 - not quite sure what that means in practice if they only got to 100...Until we see more from Seek I think any investment in Lepton at its current price could be somewhat risky.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2014, 01:59:59 pm
content: Looks like sockets came in to Mouser ahead of schedule - showing stock nowhttp://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/105028-1001/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvlOED0T0kTWh0BiEHzb9gh

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 12:23:50 pm
content: Just noticed Mouser have now sold about 3000 of the sockets since coming into stock the other day....

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2014, 03:38:39 pm
content: I guess FLIR is buying them there then, as either a second source or as a sole supplier. Probably was cheaper than keeping a batch themselves in stock.

author: StevenH
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 22, 2014, 09:34:10 am
content: Patent for FLIR ONE now accessible:http://www.google.com/patents/WO2014105241A1?cl=un

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 07:57:56 am
content: Finally now available in UK & Europe :http://flir.com/flirone/buy-eu.cfm

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 08:47:04 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 23, 2014, 07:57:56 amIt looks like:Quotebut we have nowhttp://www.apple.com/iphone-6/Those IR and other gadgets attached to those crappy phones are useless while any phone upgrade or change means this thing is worth nothing and we have to buy another one or pray that sometime they make it software compatible maybe if possible and there is no physical limitations.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 11:37:13 am
content: Agree regarding dedicated products for a specific phone. Other thermal cameras for phones use a generic mounting method. I have to wonder whether FLIR just wanted to make a big splash with areally nicely integrated thermal camera solution for one of the Worlds most popular mobile phones ? FLIR may already have a new case ready for the iPhone 6 but that is unlilely to help 'early adopters' with teh iphone 5 version. Second hand prioces on older versions of teh FLIR One could be interesting though.I still like the idea of the DEMO camera that FLIR produced with integrated LCD screen. A pity they have not decided to market a stand alone camera based on that 'Concept' demo model. Maybe a simple USB output for connection to a mobile phone or PC would make it even better ?Aurora

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2014, 12:19:09 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on September 23, 2014, 08:47:04 amCrappy phones?QuoteI've already found a significant heat leak in my house with mine. I quickly eliminated a non-functioning IR LED in a remote controlled device because I could see the LED flashing in IR. (Verified by using a scope on it to see there was actually a signal across it). I was able to see the batteries in a TV remote were still good enough to light the IR LED. Random stuff I've done in the month I've had it. It's also interesting just to look at stuff in IR. You learn things you never even thought about. Sure, I could have done all this with an E4, but I wouldn't have likely had thaton me, which is ultimately the point of the device. Expensive toy? Sure. Useless? Not so much.Remember it wasn't too long ago when phone makers were surprised by the popularity of regular cameras on phones. After all, stand alone cameras were so much better, and they were so nice and compact, etc.It's probably too much to hope for, but I would hope that a surge in popularity of cheap portable IR devices would eventually make them standard issue on smartphones.QuoteYou can say that about the phone too. No one is making you upgrade. I know a guy who still uses his iPhone 3 because it'sfinefor what he uses it for. I had a Razr for 6 years and went through 3 batteries. At the time,thatwas fine for what I used it for. I'm happy committing to having my iPhone 5 for another two years.I recall having set criteria for what I wanted in a mobile computing device back in 1980. The iPhone 5 meets or exceeds what I came up with in almost every category. The iPhone 4 did.Crappy? They're bloody Marvels.Louis CK's cogent take (WARNING: naughty words):

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 10:34:29 pm
content: Flir have just announced an industrial camera based on Lepton, price $995 :http://www.flir.com/instruments/content/?id=65448#

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2014, 10:43:31 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 24, 2014, 10:34:29 pmThat's where those 3000 sockets went to.

author: StevenH
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 07:53:40 am
content: FLIR will also launch a new generation of low cost thermography camera (based on the LEPTON module); point & shoot camera; priced at $499.http://www.findchips.com/search/0tg-10; model ref TG-165Launch planned for sept. 29See in attached; the advertise.Information on FLIR website:http://flir.com/newProduct/

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 08:23:38 am
content: AndSeek ThermalLauches 9AM ET today..things are heating up in the thermal imaging market...

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 11:59:00 am
content: For a Thermal Imaging 'Groupie' like myself things are definitely looking up.With regard to the FLIR AX8 Industrial camera, they seem to be following the same path as NEC AVIO. NEC produced the compact F30 'point and shoot' camera for consumers. They then released an industrial camera that basically took the F30 guts, added an industrial I/O interface and a tough case, and had themselves a hardened industrial camera for products lines etc. They named it the S30. Good thinking and I am not surprised FLIR are taking advantage of their LEPTON's price and size advantage.My only negative on the Lepton is its 80x60 resolution. Whilst adequate, it could be so much more useful with a 160x120 resolution. FLIR may have plans for such an enhanced LEPTON, but the price is likely to be suitably increased to match the additional resolution. Now if tehy could slle such at teh same price as a LEPTON 80x60 core.... that would make things interesting.As Mike says, very interesting times in this area of technology. Anyone for a Binocular thermal imaging device using two LEPTON cores and an Olympus FMD-200 VR headset ?As I have stated, 80x60 resolution is limiting, but look at the attached pictures to see what has been done with a 160x120 resolution 9fps F30.....Its a Quadcopter friendly weight of 200g ....the LEPTON could be even more compact and light weight, as Mike demonstrated with his 'smallest thermal camera'Aurora

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 12:14:11 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 25, 2014, 11:59:00 amI think they are hoping that MSX will make up for the lack of resolution, which it does in some applications but maybe less so in others. ISTR reading about Flir announcing a Lepton based camera aimed at the security market a while ago but not seen anything recently.I'd think that for this they'd probably want a narrower FOV than the standard Lepton lensAn interesting snippet I got from a chat with someone at Flir a while ago is that there is a lower limit on how dense you can get a microbolometer die because of the wavelength it's trying to detect, and that was a major reason for choosing 80x60 for the Lepton.

author: imau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 01:33:06 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 25, 2014, 08:23:38 amVery interesting gadget.Specs:rue thermal sensor206 x 156 Array32,136 Thermal Pixels12 µ Pixel PitchVanadium Oxide Micro BolometerChalcogenide Lens36º Field of ViewMagnesium HousingLong Wave Infrared 7.2 – 13 Microns-40C to 330C Detection< 9HzPrice: 199,00 dollars.Ships only to USA & Canada at the moment.... :-(

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 01:36:18 pm
content: There is a thread for the Seek Thermal herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/yet-another-cheap-thermal-imager-incoming/msg498715/#msg498715Meanwhile, Sounds of "oh crap" are being heard from Flir HQ

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 02:30:14 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 25, 2014, 01:36:18 pmWhy?Alexander.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 02:54:49 pm
content: Quote from: firewalker on September 25, 2014, 02:30:14 pmFlir one : $350, 80x60 Iphone 5 only, max temp 100 deg.CSeek : $199 , 206x156, Most Iphones and most Android, 330Deg.CFlir has MSX and nicer integration, but is that worth $150 extra?

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 03:00:28 pm
content: Can Flir afford a price drop just before the release of Seek? Does the Seek one utilize a microbolometer also?Alexander.

author: imau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 03:27:21 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 25, 2014, 02:54:49 pmMSX could be implemented via App using the built-in camera. It should be an easy task.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 03:33:14 pm
content: Quote from: imau on September 25, 2014, 03:27:21 pmMight be tricky getting the timing between the 2 images.And Flir's patent on MSX may be an issue

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2014, 04:25:06 pm
content: Also it needs to be remembered that MSX is visible light based and in some applications thermal cameras are being used where there is little or no natural Light. Some of my thermal cameras that have a visible light camera also include a video light option so the OEM has recognised the limitation. I do like MSX and it performs well in decent ambient light conditions but I would go for higher thermal resolution if given the option.IMHO <$200 for the 'Seek' is an amazing deal.Aurora

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 07:00:31 am
content: Just trying to figure out what this magic MSX term in thermal vision means, while I'd like to try implement it in software using OpenCV with other thermal camera?Found this so farhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSXbut it is not related to thermal anywayUpdate: I've found something about MSX here and it looks like anotherpatentsimilar to other ones which smells like reinwenting a wheel in XXI century while image processing tools are available more than ten years to get similar results using hardware accelerated OpenCV which supports as I know Nvidia CUDA in latest releases, however don't tested it while do not needed so much power in typical apps OpenCVhttp://www.tequipment.net/FLIRE4.htmlQuote"MSX is better than video blending– video blending dilutes the thermal image whereMSX augments the thermal image with just the critical visible details"OpenCV is also very good to augment videos frame by frame and using quite powerfull computer it can be done in real time with fuzzy logic & trained artifical neural networks if neededSo, it is fine forget about Flir and their patents and just connect thermal camera using USB to Android or Linux box if possible and let OpenCV do what MSX does and moreQuote from: HP-ILnerd on September 23, 2014, 12:19:09 pmNo one have to do it, while I have Linux installed on a few HTCsmarter phonesnow

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 08:01:06 am
content: What MSX does is extract edges from the visible overlays these on the thermal. I'm sure with OpenCV you could probably do better than MSX - one thing lacking, which I'm sure would be doable, is automatic depth measurement & correction by correlating edges in the two images.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 06:59:54 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 26, 2014, 08:01:06 amthere are no (real visual) edges in thermal image, you can have completely flat surface with temp differencesIm thinking a rangefinder, even primitive one made with two laser dots + visual camera, or using visual camera with AF and extracting af point from it?btw opencv is the worst thing you could do for actual implementation. Its an environment for experimentation, research and testing (like gnuradio), but it should be called open_let me copy that buffer one more time baby_CVEasier/ faster and simpler to just write Sobel directly in language/hdl of your choice.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 08:10:22 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on September 26, 2014, 06:59:54 pmA lot of the time there will be some features in the thermal image that correspond to the visual one. You know that the only offset will be horizontal (until lens geometry starts to kick in) , and within a certain range, so it should be possible to make a good guess at which offset works best.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 08:18:59 pm
content: For a simple, but quite accurate range finder you can do worse than the good old fashioned ultrasonic type that is now used on cars and was very effective on Polaroid cameras. Simple units have a range of around 10m IIRC.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 08:43:59 pm
content: If you were building a new device (as opposed to making do with the iphone cam), having a visible cam either side of the thermal, and correlating the images between those would probably be a reasonable way to get distance info.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 09:01:06 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 26, 2014, 08:10:22 pmat this point we enter realm of adaptive speculative learning algorithms, they usually also work "a lot of the time" instead of 'almost always'basically try to do it yourself - line up two pictures of an item you never ever saw, have no idea how it works hmmm, there might be problem there .... damn, lets try againbasically get a noob human (bonus points for Humanities education, or no education at all), give him two images and ask to line them up - can he do it reliably?there wont be enough information for machine to do it either, maaaybe if you grab a clip while moving around the object, but at this point we are talking reconstructing 3doh yeah, totally forgot about ultrasonic, cheap and simple, good point

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 09:23:23 pm
content: OK, this thermal imaging stuff is all great.This year, the late adopters will be using it for what the early adopters have been doing for years - equipment and heating inspections, spotting people and wildlife, looking at footprints fading, pouring coffee, watching yourself pee.So: Thermal cameras are now cheap. Gesture recognition becomes easy. Occupancy sensors become easy. What's now possible? What have you wanted to do for ages, but has suddenly gone from a £2000 price tag to £20? £200 to £2?Something in the cooker hood to both allow gestures to flick pages on a recipe book projected on the wall, and watch the pan contents temperature?Something in the room thermostat, to watch skin temperature rather than thermostat temperature?Bah, I dunno. This is a wonderful toy, at a new price. Let's avoid some gits getting patents on stuff that could be fun. What should be built?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 09:50:28 pm
content: Quote from: Precipice on September 26, 2014, 09:23:23 pmI do kinda wonder if the mass market the manufacturers are hoping for is really there.It's still (and likely to be forever) too expensive to come down to 'toy' prices, or even low enough to be built into a phone (though I have no doubt someone will, just for the publicity).It will obviously go into the lower end of markets already using them - electrical/electronics/HVAC. I have little doubt that someone will make an industrial multimeter with a built-in thermal imager.There will be some niche applications in occupancy sensing and maybe some safety applications and industrial condition monitoring.And probably CCTV/security, though resolution is probably not good enough to do more than use as an initial detection system to target lighting & higher res visible cameras.For gesture recognition, the ITAR framerate limit is a major obstacle - 9fps is just too slow. However Flir may be in a good position with the Lepton, as assuming it as some reasonable amount of built-in processing power, some of the recognition process can be done on-module at a high framerate, so they could potentially produce something that couldn't output an image, and so would be outside ITAR scope.There's little doubt that phone thermal imagers will be one of this year's hot (!) Christmas toys, but I suspect the novelty will soon wear out, leaving a bunch of niches of various sizes and market values.I also think that the Flir One was primarily meant to be a technology demonstrator, and their main eye is on niche markets rather then the consumer.Even ignoring the spec differences, Seek Thermal is the obviously better way to do a phone add-on. For most people it will be an occasional-use tool, so reducing the hardware electronics and size, hence cost to absolute minimum makes far more sense than having an external battery and powerful processor etc. in the camera.The Lepton module, with its internal processing is clearly aimed at applications where you don't have the sort of powerful processor that's available in a phone.

author: Precipice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 09:55:14 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on September 26, 2014, 09:50:28 pmThat reminds me - toys!When teddy can watch and imitate gestures, or tickle-me-Cthulhu can see you coming, all sorts of fun interactivity should be on the cards.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 10:02:24 pm
content: Just found this Flir TG165 Lepton based imagerhttp://www.cityelectricweb.com/2014/09/flir-tg165-imaging-ir-thermometer/Can't immediately find a price but ISTR seeing $499 somewhere the other day in reference to a Lepton based standalone imager. Much wider temp range that F1No MSX, but has to be the last nail in the coffin fro Fluke's pathetic offerings

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2014, 11:58:11 pm
content: Its interesting that FLIR call it a thermometer and not a TIC. It even has Removable Flash memory.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2014, 09:14:32 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on September 26, 2014, 11:58:11 pmI suspect that's so it gets into catalogues alongside Fluke's toy ones.

author: ScubaShan
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 02:29:55 pm
content: I note the temperature range of the TG165 is -25 to 380°C , yet the spec sheet says its using the lepton core. Are there multiple versions of lepton or will could it be possible to hack the flir one to work over a wider temperature range than 0-100°C?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 29, 2014, 03:01:10 pm
content: Quote from: ScubaShan on September 29, 2014, 02:29:55 pm

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 30, 2014, 04:29:48 pm
content: FLIR TG165 in Germany: 589,95 EUR with tax ( messgeraete-chemnitz.de )

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 09:37:41 am
content: Lepton datasheet on Pure Engineering pagehttp://www.pureengineering.com/projects/leptonhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3wmCw6bdPqFdXI1bEFnOHdWZTQNote I believe the Lepton in the Flir One may have different firmware to that described in this datasheet - I've only had a brief play but couldn't get most of the commands working.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 09:48:31 am
content: Alexander.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 12:41:18 pm
content: @Mike,FLIR have learnt from past experience then........They likely realised that people would harvest LEPTON cores from their mass produced FLIR )ne and thought they would make life difficult for any OEM thinking of redeploying it ? The high price of the LEPTON core (as an individual component) likely reflects its 'enhanced' instruction set. Marketing, Marketing, MarketingThe SEEK device will have a great following if the price remains so reasonable !Aurora

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 01, 2014, 01:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: Aurora on October 01, 2014, 12:41:18 pmMy guess would be rather more prosaic - get the F1 out the door with the minimum firmware to make it work, then finish the rest later!

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 07:49:48 am
content: Quote from: Aurora on October 01, 2014, 12:41:18 pmHow much does Lepton module costs in those minimum 1000 orders ONLY based on Flir page?Is it possible to buy a few such modules somewhere for testing to make working prototype while Flir One might have diffrent firmware, so not a way to go when someone wanted make it as part of consumer product ?Just starting reading its latest datasheet, but from this Flir One teardown looks like that MSX and final image combined with second visual camera (close to IR one) edges/countours & IR thermal is made inside Lepton module or it is part of another MCU software controling user iterface?Visual image can be send to Lepton module and merged with IR there, while somewhere were written that Lepton module is MSX compatible?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 08:55:59 am
content: Quote from: eneuro on October 02, 2014, 07:49:48 amCurrent Lepton OEM price is $250, but reduces a lot at high volumes. MSX on the F1 is done by an ARM processor - Lepton has no facility to do it internally.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 09:15:41 am
content: Mike, how exactly is the temperature calculated from the lepton camera. It spits out directly temperature data and then the mcu maps the color over the temperature range?Alexander.

author: firewalker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 09:17:46 am
content: Is it possible for someone to combine x lepton sensors to acquire more resolution? E.g. to monitor objects away from the sensors.Alexander.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 02:18:28 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 02, 2014, 08:55:59 amProbably optymistic 1000 machines with this Lepton OEM is not high volume and no chance anyway go below $100 for this unit.While this thing it is for sport entertainment and training toy it coud be perfect to go with total price below $333, nope it looks like classic visual camera or tricky usage of thisMLX90614 Digital, plug & play, infrared thermometer in a TO-canwill have to do the job for the momentBTW: When do you plan to makeSeek Thermalteardown and hacking?It could be nice to see kernel logs and try use it as regular thermal video source when atached not to Android but classic Linux with USB OTG built in into kernel...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 02:43:52 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on October 02, 2014, 02:18:28 pmSoon as I get my hands on one - already on order in US ready to cross the Atlantic as soon as they start shipping

author: imau
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 05:49:22 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on October 02, 2014, 02:43:52 pmHow did you order it? Someone helped you, right?

author: frenky
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 08:27:16 pm
content: They already have a placeholder on amazon:http://www.amazon.com/s/field-brandtextbin=Seek&node=228013I hope price goes down to 199$ when the (android) module will be in stock...

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 09:06:28 am
content: Lepton software command spec is now at the Pure Engineering sitehttp://www.pureengineering.com/projects/lepton

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 12:02:50 pm
content: something makes me feel weird. I use flir tool to export two thermal images to csv formats, one from a hacked e4, the other from flir one. after viewing them,I found they are so much the same. is there anything else to find about the tiny lepton sensor ? or is just some phantom? sorry for my poor english.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2014, 12:12:41 pm
content: 80x60 image upscaling to the more common and useful 320x240 format for export ?The Visible light camera used for MSX is higher resolution than the LEPTON so some upscaling is needed to overlay one on the other anyway.Aurora

author: devilmastah
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2014, 05:56:12 pm
content: Hi guys,i have some news on the flir one, i spent some time looking at the iPhone app and found that the temperature range is limited in the app itself instead of the camera.I was able to unlock a temperature range of -40 to 150 degrees C in the iPhone app.What also is interesting is that there is a huge amount of config files regarding the image smoothing, upscaling /interpolation + other palettes that can simply be added.My question now is, why doesn't flir give us the full potential to their camera?edit:i guess i should lock firmware upgrading two now this is out

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2014, 06:27:14 pm
content: Quote from: devilmastah on November 10, 2014, 05:56:12 pmThat will probably be reserved for the Flir Two.

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2014, 11:04:25 pm
content: Quote from: devilmastah on November 10, 2014, 05:56:12 pmHow did you unlocked the temperature range?(editing the plist?)

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 07:36:39 am
content: the idea of changing the app really inspired me. by changing the flir one app.I gain 5 new existing palettes including blackhot and other 4 strange looking one. I also find it's super easy to add any custome emissivities to the app.firstly.open the flir one app with winRARthen. download and intall a small program called plisteditor,open a file palettes.plist, and in FLIR ONE-1.1.3\Payload\Rosebud.app\CameraFiles\bin you can find all exsisting palettes, following its format and it shouldn't be a problem to unlock allof them.personally, I think it's easy to make a palettes of your own.find and open the file emissivity.plist and you can add any custome emissivities you want.still I don't know how to unlock the temperature limits,still more to be found I assume.

author: devilmastah
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 09:13:41 am
content: Quote from: tomas123 on November 10, 2014, 11:04:25 pmThis is sadly not in a plist file. It is hardcoded in the app itself, i disassembled it with ida and did some hex editing on the app file itself.I could try to recompile it into a IPA file and upload it somewhere. But i dont want any conflicts.Maybe i should just put the changes up in here + the location of the changes, so anyone can freely hex edit its own app file.Currently at work, will do that this evening:)@vincentwrath, nice job, i have them all as well, and i am trying to make my own palettes, but they are not in RGB it seems, at least a palett editor wont read themThere seems to be some other interesting stuff as well, i saw something about a histogram in the app code as well. I will check if i can unlock that somehow next weekend when i have some time.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 09:32:32 am
content: Quote from: devilmastah on November 11, 2014, 09:13:41 amFlir palettes tend to be stored as YUV

author: devilmastah
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 09:33:45 am
content: Any suggestion on an editor thats capable of reading that?

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 11:39:59 am
content: I use ImageMagick for converting (vice verse)see my post herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg352778/#msg352778

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 01:38:12 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on November 11, 2014, 09:32:32 amWhis is the size of those palettes-more than 8bit (256) indexed RGB colors?Just implemented in my thermal interface support for 8bit, 10bit, 14bit and 16bit Iron thermal LUT, so maximum size is for 16bit 65536 entries.They are made as parametric channels R(x) G(x) B(x) for 0>x<1 real number functions and when needed LUT tables created on the fly in interface software, so no need to store them and unlimited pallete size possible.Did anyone tried to apply thermal paletes at higher resolution - I'mean not 256 colors (8bit) but 10bit (1024) and more on thermal output images?

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 05:17:12 pm
content: HelloI have had my Flir One for a while now, and have wondered why it did not have a larger temp range and more pallets.I think Flir did not enable these because it did not want the Flir One to be too close in specs to the E4.When the Flir One was announced i only had, and still only have an Iphone 5C. I ordered the Flir One and modified a 5C hard plastic case to fit the Flir One. I suspect the Flir One will also work with an Ipod touch 5th gen since it is the same size as an iphone 5 or 5S.To @vincentwrathI am still unclear how you were able to make the changes you did. Do you have to have a Jailbroken Iphone ? Do you need a Mac computer to do this. I only have a windows PC. I would like to understand this process more so i can try the changes.

author: devilmastah
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 09:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: Starman on November 11, 2014, 05:17:12 pmYou need a jailbroken iphone, that way you can access the files in the app and make modifications to it.

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2014, 11:26:08 pm
content: Thanks @devilmastahI was afraid that was the case. My phone is half mine and half the company i work for, so i probably won't be jailbreaking it any time soon. Nice to know that such changes to apps can be made though.

author: mjkuwp
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 12:45:28 am
content: Quote from: Starman on November 11, 2014, 05:17:12 pmnope. For one thing the app refuses to install on an iPod touch. Also, the cases are slightly different. iPod touch sure looks a lot like an iPhone of the same generation but they are different hardware.

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 04:33:22 am
content: Quote from: Starman on November 11, 2014, 11:26:08 pmhere is my suggestion suggetstion, first All of your IPA files you have download with itune can be found with this following route: C:\Users\Administrator\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Mobile Applications, find flir one 1.1.2, open but don't extract?find the palettes.plist and emissivity.plist, (FLIR ONE-1.1.3\Payload\Rosebud.app\CameraFiles\bin here you can find all currently available palettes), use plisteditor follow its formation to unlock palettes and add any emissivities you want.when you are done, compress these two modified files back to flir one IPA.the last step , uninstall the flir one from your iphone,and reinstall from the pc.finally, I think the work should be done.

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 10:04:09 am
content: here is my suggestion suggetstion, first All of your IPA files you have download with itune can be found with this following route: C:\Users\Administrator\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Mobile Applications, find flir one 1.1.2, open but don't extract?find the palettes.plist and emissivity.plist, (FLIR ONE-1.1.3\Payload\Rosebud.app\CameraFiles\bin here you can find all currently available palettes), use plisteditor follow its formation to unlock palettes and add any emissivities you want.when you are done, compress these two modified files back to flir one IPA.the last step , uninstall the flir one from your iphone,and reinstall from the pc.finally, I think the work should be done.Thanks vincentwrathI'm away from home on a buisness trip, and might give that a try when i get back. Could the extended temperature range be unlocked this way as well?

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 10:43:33 am
content: Quote from: Starman on November 12, 2014, 10:04:09 amThanks vincentwrathI'm away from home on a buisness trip, and might give that a try when i get back. Could the extended temperature range be unlocked this way as well?no, just the 5 more palettes and add any custome emissivities , and we all need to wait Mr devilmastah to show us how to extend temperature range.

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2014, 06:42:55 pm
content: To vincentwrath:I had a little time today to try your instructions.I used itunes to download Flir One 1.1.3Using windows explorer, i navigated to the Flir One 1.1.3.ipa file which was right where you said it would be.However i was unable to "open" it to get to the .plist files. What do i open it with?I have "Plist editor 2.0" installed, but it doesn't see the Flir One 1.1.3.ipa file at allYour instructions seemed straight forward but i must be missing something.I'm running Windows 8.1 on my laptopthanks for any help you can provide.

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2014, 04:19:37 am
content: Quote from: Starman on November 12, 2014, 06:42:55 pmuse winRAR,find the flir one ipa flie,double click,then you have enter into it.

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2014, 01:49:22 pm
content: inside the Flir One app I found the interesting fileSuperResDenoise.plistCode:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd"><plist version="1.0"><dict><key>Date</key><date>2014-03-12T22:10:38Z</date><key>Deblur_PSD</key><dict><key>ht1_1x8x8</key><array>--- snip ---</dict><key>Denoise_Parameters</key><dict><key>dn_dctBlkStepSz</key><integer>4</integer><key>dn_motionThreshold</key><real>0.20000000000000001</real><key>dn_smoothing</key><integer>50</integer></dict><key>Description</key><string>Flir One Parameters for SuperResolution, Denoise and Deblur.</string><key>PSD</key><dict>--- snip ---<key>Revision_number</key><integer>0</integer><key>Super_Resolution_Parameters</key><dict><key>sr_alpha</key><real>0.59999999999999998</real><key>sr_bestQuality</key><true/><key>sr_beta</key><integer>10</integer><key>sr_bilinearUpscale</key><false/></dict></dict></plist>see my posts for details about superresolution:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg363688/#msg363688https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg363213/#msg363213Quote from: tomas123 on January 08, 2014, 01:07:33 pm

author: devilmastah
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 12:38:37 am
content: Quote from: tomas123 on November 13, 2014, 01:49:22 pmi saw that as well, i dont quite get what the paramters are doing,Some seem quite obvious, like motiontreshold and smoothing.But whats the huge array and the top array for

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 02:05:27 am
content: Quote from: vincentwrath on November 13, 2014, 04:19:37 amSo it seems im still not doing something right. I installed Winrar, opened the .ipa file, found the palettes.plist file, edited it (correctly i think) with Plisteditor, "Added" it back into the .ipa file. Then i deleted flir one from the phone, synced with itunes to install it again. That seemed to go ok , it loaded to the iphone, except on the iphone it never got out of "installing" and the icon was darkened.

author: vincentwrath
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 03:32:08 am
content: Quote from: Starman on November 14, 2014, 02:05:27 amscenario 1. reboost your iphone, then everything fine.scenario 2.apply flight mode,then reboost. the cracked flir app can be removed.and My sincere condolence for not assuming the risk of non-jail break iphone

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 11:08:46 am
content: to vincentwrathThanks for the tips. I did not have a problem with my iphone functioning...i performed the same steps you mentioned and my phone works fine and i can install the unmodified .ipa. But the modified .ipa just won't install properly.I am new to using winrar and plisteditor so perhaps i am doing something wrong.--i used winrar's "add" function to install and replace the palettes plist--then i used winrars "test" function which said everything okPerhaps someone has other suggestions or could post their modified palettes.plist file so i can try using that.thanks for your help

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 12:43:58 pm
content: Quote from: devilmastah on November 14, 2014, 12:38:37 amThe flir lepton camera module has 9Hz frame rateI can't see any delays in the flir one app for sampling multiple images and calculate a super resolutionI think, the file SuperResDenoise.plist contains paramters for tricky bilinear upscaling of asinglenoisy image from 80x60 (Sensor) to 160x120 (embedded RAW values in jpg).

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2014, 06:09:47 pm
content: a sensitivity testpost moved tohttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/msg551878/#msg551878

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2014, 07:35:36 pm
content: check for fake noisemoved tohttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/msg551881/#msg551881

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2014, 04:26:55 pm
content: resolution testpost moved tohttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/msg551882/#msg551882

author: tomas123
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2014, 05:29:54 pm
content: after some Flir Ones reached the eevblog forum users it's time to collect some infos for hacking of the lepton sensor and iphone appTherefore I started a new thread.As thread starter I can collect some good infos in the first post.(like Mike for the Flir Ex/Exx herehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/)Please go toFlir One Thermal imaging camera teardown and hackshttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-one-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown-and-hacks/

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2014, 06:11:51 pm
content: New firmware update allows charging your phone while connected to the Flir camera. It does this after the Flir camera is charged.This removes one of the bigger PITA regarding the device.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2014, 11:51:01 am
content: Newsletter on Lepton availability just arrived in my email:http://cvs.flir.com/webmail/6132/582294369/392afc20347a08c88115a301559fa4aeAurora

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2014, 10:58:30 am
content: Now at Sparkfunhttps://www.sparkfun.com/products/13233

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2015, 02:07:55 pm
content: So the garage door at work breaks. Repair guy comes out three times during the day to fix it. Can't seem to find anything wrong.A few hours into my shift, it breaks again. I do what he suggests, power-cycling, etc. I sorta get it working again. The case is onlyheld on by one screw (he pointed this out), and I pop it open to have a peek. I remember I have my FLIR ONE on my iPhone 5 and point thatat it. Picture below:Turns out there is a 2 Watt resistor that's almost 200 degrees F while it's idle and under no load. (couldn't keep the camera steady enough tocatch the peak in the picture.) Anyway, the temp under those conditions seemed, well,wrong. So, I let it cool off for half an hour,and then it works again. This explains why he couldn't find anything amiss: It had been cold and off every time he'd got there to check it.I think it's hilarious that he had this van full of garage door repair equipment, and couldn't debug it in three visits, but I managed it in acouple seconds with my phone!IR Cameras rule! His company should buy him one.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2015, 09:08:37 pm
content: I wouldn't be surprised if that was a fairly normal running temp, and this heat over time has cause other parts to fail, or caused bad solder joints in the surrounding area.

author: HP-ILnerd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2015, 02:15:14 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on May 07, 2015, 09:08:37 pmI could see it warming up while actually opening the door (why else use a 2 watt resistor) but 200 degrees just sitting there idle? While idle, the whole device just has to sit there waiting for a signal from an external radio receiver. BTW, that looks like a MOSFET or a regulator next to it. It was impossible to read the markings in that light. The resistor was situated near the pins, couldn't tell what either of them were connected to, but they were only a couple millimeters apart. The only other thing in there that's even warm was the transformer near the top of the pic.I know it's hard to tell from the visible light picture (very bad light, had to pull out what detail you see with a curve adjustment in PS) but there's no heat sink on it or anything else in the device.When I told him, the repair guy seemed to think that temp was not right also, but I'd bet he's never actually seen a good one in IR, so I suspect he may have no idea what it was supposed to be.You've seen the inside of way more electronics than I have (or will). Is that common practice to just have one really toasty resistor in something doing nothing?UPDATE: Board swapped (of course) it all works now.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2015, 08:18:21 am
content: Quote from: HP-ILnerd on May 08, 2015, 02:15:14 amNot good engineering but it could be a simple & cheap dropper to get the low voltage supply for the receiver from the mains

author: NathanFowler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2015, 01:20:31 pm
content: Morning, hope all are doing well. I have very much enjoyed reading the threads here on the FLIR ONE, the take down, and the comparison to the Seek. Long story short, does anyone have the IPA for 1.5.2 they'd be willing to share for the FLIR ONE application (not FLIR Paint or FLIR Tools)? The latest update Version: 2.0.1 released Jun 15 2015 causes frequent loss of connection with the Rosebud FLIR "sled". The application itself doesn't crash, it simply goes "Please connect and turn on" forcing you to either reboot the phone or disconnect and reconnect the sled.If someone could post the 1.5.2 IPA I could revert, otherwiseconsider this a warning for others to avoid 2.0.1. I am on firmware 1.0.9 on an iPhone 5S. Hardware version O73,Nathan

author: NathanFowler
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2015, 06:31:57 pm
content: FLIR just released firmware 1.0.11 for the FLIR ONE gen1 which addresses the connectivity issues introduced in FLIR ONE 2.0.1. It takes a few tries to get the firmware to "take" due to the connectivity issues. Also, a battery of 100% is reported as less than 50% (seems math error) but 99% worked fine.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 11:45:22 am
content: I picked up one of these recently taking advantage of the deep reductions now the newer unit is out and the out of box experience has been painful. It was shipped with firmware 1.08 and the application store had the 2.01 app.Needless to say it was flakey to say the least, it would lose connectivity very frequently, and I seemed to need to switch off the unit, disconnect it and reconnect before switching on again to reestablish connection.The app showed that 1.09 firmware (not 1.08) was available so I installed that, but there was no improvement other than I could now charge the phone through the Flir one.I checked again immediately after installing 1.09 and it showed 1.11 was available so I tried to install that but it said that I needed more than 50% battery, which made no sense as both phone and Flir were showing fully charged.I tried resetting with the pin hole button held in for 30s but it didn't make any difference.In the end I let the battery run down on the Flir completely by leaving it on Video (and reconnecting as necessary), recharged it, and it finally allowed the 1.11 firmware to be uploaded.It's far far better now, but it's taken about five days to get it to work reasonably well.In use, for showing up board hot spots, it's pretty good except that there is parallax with the MSX augmentation, but you can work around that easily enough.Once it's working, at £129 for me the technology had finally approached a reasonable price point.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 02, 2015, 12:12:05 pm
content: Write to FLIR with your poor buying experience. They like feedback and often reward such. Worth the time it takes to write an email.Aurora

author: Starman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2015, 02:10:19 am
content: To ThinkpadYes, it will work with 5C. You will need a thin 5C back and do a little modification to it. The bottom 1/2 of the back needs to be thined with sandpaper so the lightning connector will line up properly. You will also need to cut in the round hole near the top of the back, and thin it down also. Sandpaper and a utility knife are all the tools you need.Bought my Flir One last September, and performed the above mods. I am upgraded to the latest firmware and software and it works great.Francis

author: mimmus78
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2015, 11:28:34 pm
content: My Flir One V2 order was cancelled ... I'm the only one or they are late with the product?

author: encryptededdy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2015, 04:08:32 am
content: Quote from: mimmus78 on August 22, 2015, 11:28:34 pmThey are certainly very late. My Amazon order is showing Sep 9 - Oct 5 with One Day shipping.

author: Scottjd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 03:55:13 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on July 02, 2015, 11:45:22 amJust a note for others that are now buying this first version cheap or used.Mine also said it needed more then 50% battery for the 1.0.11 firmware. Just plug in the charger, close the app, relaunch the app and try again. It worked for me. No need to drain the battery all the way and recharge.Also I have mine running with the latest iPod Touch (6th Generation) that has the same 64bit processors as the iPhone 5/5S. It fits in the case good. The flash works as a light, no need to modify the case for the flash and is working good.

author: andreasbest
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 27, 2022, 02:07:03 pm
content: Hello!I'm sorry for resurrecting this ancient topic but i'm desperate.We recently bought a FLIR One gen 1 for iOS, we managed to download the latest compatible version of app (3.2.8 ) using AppStore++ but we have connectivity problems, after exactly 60 seconds the camera disconnects and needs to power off, detach from phone and reattach to work for another 60 seconds.Today i noticed your forums and the discussion about 1.11 FW, my camera is on 1.08 and i cannot update it though the app (responds that no newer updates for your device are available).So i was wondering, how you update it to 1.11?

author: faraday
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2022, 07:44:48 pm
content: Got same problem, app close itself after few seconds have you found solution?