1st hand experience with EU WEEE directive? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2014, 11:35:51 am
content: The title says it all. How does one deal with it?From what I've read so far it seems quite impossible to get something going (very low volume) with the WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive) impending doom. High registration fees, annual costs, requirement to report sales figures...That makes a very low-volume project seem like a big waste of time, any "profit" (if there is any) is instantly eaten up by WEEE fees.I do know that selling kits seems to be a way to avoid this mess, but that limits the number of possible buyers quit a bit.

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 09:08:06 pm
content: Simple, ignore it! Bit like many other stupid pieces of EU legislation, Directives, to have appeared. It is because of things like this (from the Economist there was going to be a regulation setting the height of hairdressers' shoe heels) that the UK will leave the EU in 2017. Closely followed by several other counties.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 09:17:43 pm
content: I'd love to ignore it, but the associated risk appears to be immense and incalculable.There is stuff like 'container lottery'... I don't know what moron invented that... Essentially a container (full of electronics junk, several tons) is randomly assigned to someone who has to pay for getting rid of it. Now if you're hit by that you're fucked. They don't care if you only produce a few kg of circuits a year. This insanity now explains the presence of all these companies that "help" you to cover that event for a not so small annual fee. Probably at least 75% of the costs are bureaucratic BS.Besides ignoring WEEE, the simplest way out seems to be not to sell anything to EU member states.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:07:47 pm
content: I wouldn't stress too much - what actually matters is how your (German?) government has actually transposed this directive into your local law. That is what you need to comply with. The directive itself isn't a law.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:23:32 pm
content: There's a good article athttp://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/WEEE-Anmeldung(German).Edit: One inexpensive way seems to bewww.weee-full-service.de/mengen-unter-1t

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:29:15 pm
content: The local implementation of WEEE is FUBAR.The government transferred control & regulation to a privately run association, which essentially can do whatever it likes. "Industry self-regulation". Once you've read a couple of pages of their rules & regulations, you must come to the conclusion that the main purpose of this is to make them money and to create cushy jobs for their cronies.Making a single product "legal" entails about €500 of registration fee + several 100s of € of recurring annual costs + some other stuff just to be on the safe side in case you're hit by the above mentioned "container lottery".Not a big deal if you're a big company like Bosch, but for a garage-business run on the weekends... it's a bullet to the head.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:31:29 pm
content: Quote from: madires on April 19, 2014, 10:23:32 pmYes, I know that one. My conclusion should be to not start a business and or to emigrate out of the EU. They have created a bureaucratic monster that is self-perpetuating and leeches every drop of blood out of you.They break your legs even before you've learned to walk.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:43:59 pm
content: Quote from: woodchips on April 19, 2014, 09:08:06 pmUnless the UK gets the same sweet deal Switzerland has it would be economic suicide ... and giving the UK that deal would be political suicide on the EU's part. I guess it could happen with enough corruption, but it seems unlikely.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 10:51:56 pm
content: Unfortunately Germany seems to have a culture of taking regulations like these rather more seriously than elsewhere in the EU - ISTR reading they are the only country that police EMC regs by buying random products and testing them - elsewhere it's complaint driven with minimal enforcement resources.Ask a handful of small UK companies about WEEE and they probably haven't even heard of it, let alone have any clue that they need to do anything about it.

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:02:55 pm
content: It can be dealt with 3 ways in the UK.1. Consumer takes back to store at end of life.2. Consumer contacts supplier, supplier then arranges recycling.3. Consumer takes to waste site, supplier joins DTS (distributed takeback scheme).I deal with it by putting on the "crossed out bin" pictogram (WEEE symbol?), and instructing the consumer to contact us when they wish to recycle the product (we would then send out freepost box for them to return the item to us) - unlikely to happen with our stuff though.

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:03:30 pm
content: I don't mind that products are pro-actively tested. That is a good thing. The main target of these tests are cheap goods like teddy-bears & toasters from china. They test for flammability, safety-earth, poisonous chemicals in kid's toys...What I don't like is over-inflated bureaucratic BS, created by a bunch of single-brain-celled life-forms sitting in cushy chairs.I've read somewhere that processing electronics waste costs about 200€ per metric TON. Consequently, if I produce say 1kg of circuits, I should only have to pay 20 cents. Not a problem. I'd gladly do that.But instead I have to pay hundreds or even thousands of € to keep this system alive and happy. It is insane, like shooting mosquitoes with a AK47.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:27:20 pm
content: Quote from: madworm on April 19, 2014, 11:03:30 pmPlease, complain and lobby to your politicians. It is them who implemented the law in that way.The directive itself is sound - because what is the alternative otherwise? Pretending that everything is fine and groovy and we keep doing as always, putting old gear into landfills and exporting it to Asia and Africa, letting someone else pay for dealing with our mess?Quote from: madworm on April 19, 2014, 11:03:30 pmI think that "processing" would be exporting it somewhere to China or Africa:http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/e-waste-recycling-is-serious-health-threat-in-china.htmlProper recycling and disposal is going to be a lot more expensive.Quote from: madworm on April 19, 2014, 11:03:30 pmHonestly, if you cannot afford to pay 450 EUR annually as a business (you probably could even claim it back as a tax deductible expense), then are you sure that your business is healthy?I agree that this does suck for the little guy selling their doodads on eBay and such, but that's the place to lobby your politicians to fix the system to exempt them - at least from the reporting and fees.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:38:05 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on April 19, 2014, 10:43:59 pmLet him dream. I think many of those "leave the EU now!" folks will wake up rather quickly when they discover how much it is going to cost them extra once the country gets hit with the various import tariffs that EU imposes on non-EU countries. Not to mention that leaving the EU wouldn't help squat with things like ROHS or WEEE - they would still have to follow those rules as the EU members have to if they wanted to sell inside EU (which is about 60% of UK's export market ...), but without actually being able to benefit from being a member.The Swiss are discovering this first hand already - the EU research funding has stopped already (Switzerland was able to participate in various EU programs thanks to special treaties), many big companies that have offices in Switzerland (and are profiting from the low taxes and international workforce) are really vocal about reviewing their options already, in case that the Swiss government decides to do something crazy with the immigration quotas. The Swiss could end up not having to deal with EU immigrants - but still not having jobs once those companies actually move elsewhere, not to mention economy tanking in addition to all that when all those big taxpayers leave.Isolationism and short-sighted populism has historically worked so well ...

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:39:24 pm
content: Everyone starts small. I expect to pay tax proportional to profits, fees proportional to amount of produced goods, not for nefarious stuff before having sold one single item.Do you know our politicians? They are either clueless or corrupt, many of them are lawyers. Need I say more? They can't even get rid of daylight-saving. How hard could that be?And with our "Borg Queen" at the helm... resistance is futile!

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:51:28 pm
content: Quote from: madworm on April 19, 2014, 11:39:24 pmYou haven't seen the Slovak politicians (my home country) yet ... In fact, whenever our local bozos deploy their "creativity" in lawmaking, we are often relying on Brussels to slap them back to get things back to semi-sane state. It is *that* bad.Recent example? Our secret service prepared a bill requiring everyone doing business or providing services in Slovakia and using encryption to deposit the encryption keys + instructions on how to break the encryption with the government. Basically, had that passed into law, it would have made internet practically illegal in Slovakia (just try asking Google or Microsoft to hand their encryption keys to some obscure minicountry in Europe ...).That law covered only telephone and radio encryption devices originally, but some idiot thought it would be a good idea to "simplify" the text and remove that restriction. The government backtracked only when media latched on it, pointing out that it is completely un-enforceable.I think I would be rather ecstatic if we had the German politicians instead

author: madworm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 11:58:46 pm
content: Be careful with that wish! Once assimilated, there's no going back. "She" won't let you go.