Tek oscope and specs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 pm
content: So I am looking over over the specs of scopes in the $2.5k range. My first thing to look at was Tektronix. It is sort of what i used for my whole career since university ingrained in into you (Also, I had a MDO 3000 series at my previous job, that was an awesome scope, but more than double the cost). However...looking over the specs, they seem pretty inferior at the same price point when compared to Keysight and Rhode and Schwartz (even Rigol). Am I missing something? Not only that, but the MDO 2000 series cost more than the TBS 2000 series, but the TBS has better specs but cannot do protocol decoding.....that seems pretty weird. Even more weird is that it cost more to buy the "bench software" option. What? Does that mean I cannot talk to the oscope unless I buy their software?So, maybe I have been living under a rock or I have been ignorant this whole time. I am guessing at this price point, the name cost more than the features? Spec wise.... it seems that the competition is way ahead of them in the $2.5k price point. Am I wrong on this and missing something?

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 02:30:00 pm
content: I priced the 3 series for personal use and quickly came to the conclusion that they are not worth it. The starting price is attractive but you soon realize that this includes no options...and the options you might want drive the price to 10 kilobucks extremely quickly. If I was able to spend that much for personal use, I'd be looking strongly at that "fully loaded for $9999" offer that R&S is running this year.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 02:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 pmThat's certainly the impression that surfaces whenever Tek is mentioned around here, ie. Tek has been standing still and living on its reputation while everybody else is innovating and competing like hell.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 06:57:22 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 pmNope, you've just not been watching what's happening in the marketplace.Just the advances in the last 5 years have been astounding in just the sub $1k bracket.Then if you look at what you can get for 10k .........

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 07:46:13 pm
content: Also...how do you get a quote from R&S? I asked for a quote multiple times, but they never respond back. When you go to a reseller, nothing is in stock....WTF?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 07:51:30 pm
content: Why don't you list some 'must have' specs ?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:17:43 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 07:46:13 pmHow about ordering it online from Farnell / Element14? It shouldn't be so hard to order it.But I agree with Tautech: list some of the specs you are looking for. There is a whole flurry of options to pick from however the perfect oscilloscope doesn't exist.Tektronix seems to have lost their way on the DSO market a long time ago. However I do kinda like the 4 channel TBS2000. I use it every now and then at a customer and I like how Tektronix implemented infinite persistence for example and the very crisp screen. The downside is that the time/div knob doesn't always do what you want but I don't know whether this particular oscilloscope is running the latest firmware.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:26:01 pm
content: At one time Tek was way out ahead, but the high end cost is no object segment has always kinda been their thing. Most of the Tek scopes I've had are the kind of thing that cost as much as a nice new car originally.Tech marches on and I think they have trouble competing at the low end, and $2500 is pretty low end relative to what Tek has traditionally offered.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:31:40 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on October 16, 2019, 08:26:01 pmPricing is not so much of the problem. I think the biggest problem is that Tektronix doesn't know how to optimise software very well so the user interface and operations are terribly slow especially when you are going to perform operations on larger amounts of data.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:39:19 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 16, 2019, 08:17:43 pmI tried Newark. Nothing is in stock. The R&S website claims there is some sort of sale too, but I am not sure if it is if you bundle it with other hardware.I am looking for a 4 channel scope with protocol decoding and digital input capability. We wanted to be able to debug ethernet as well, but it seems that you need to have a scope with at least 200Mhz bandwidth to do it. That one requirement was dropped because it increased the price too much. The one thing I am worried about is if a scope can do the digital and the analog at the same time. Is that something that only higher end scopes do? I see it on pics, but I wonder if it was just photoshopped and you cannot really do that in real life with a sub $3k scope.At home, I have a siglent scope. It gets the job done for me personally, but for work, I think it would be wise to splurge a little bit on a name brand. At my previous job, we used Rigol scopes. They worked fine for basic things, but when we wanted to do automated testing with them, it was a nightmare. We ended up just buying low end Tek scopes for that.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:50:05 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 08:39:19 pmWhat model ?There's something new coming in their 4ch mid-range...............

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:54:41 pm
content: You think MSO scopes are just photoshops? They definitely aren't. I suspect you have a lot of research to do.

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:55:39 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on October 16, 2019, 08:50:05 pmSDS1104X-E. I got it for free with an Amex Amazon promotion. So no complaining on my end!

author: Gibson486
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 08:57:41 pm
content: Quote from: maginnovision on October 16, 2019, 08:54:41 pmNo, I thought they wanted to get the point across that you can do almost everything. However, lots of times, you can not do everything at the same time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 09:01:37 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 08:39:19 pmThe GW Instek MSO2204E fits this description as well so it is possible to have what you want at your budget level. In general the firmware on these oscilloscopes is mature and if you do find a bug they usually fix it quickly (at least that is my experience as a satisfied customer). GW Instek isn't a well known brand amongst hobbiests but they have been around for a long time and seem to aim at the educational and lower end professional market.Another option is a Siglent scope but personally I don't like their automatic memory setting method and decoding only what is on screen (there is a workaround using zoom mode but with digital channels enabled that just eats more screen real estate).Beyond that you are looking at spending more on a Keysight (with tiny memory depth) or R&S with a very nicely polished user interface. However these will land you in the $3k to $5k territory.In the end the best thing is to get a few oscilloscopes and do some tests and see what you like or not.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 09:11:25 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 08:57:41 pmThat would be pretty deceitful. MSO scopes can all display digital and analog together, afaik. Maybe there are some examples of that not being true. I would also recommend getting some to try out.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2019, 09:12:48 pm
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 08:55:39 pmNice and although very well featured it is an entry level DSO.I guess you want something with a larger display and individual vertical controls plus all the fruits that come in mid range DSO's.Any particular digital protocol support or just the usual ?Touch or mouse/keyboard support ?

author: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 08:13:14 am
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 07:46:13 pmSorry to hear you're having trouble ordering from us. Shoot me a PM with who you'd like to order from and what you're thinking of and I'll get you taken care of.-Rich

author: rvalente
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2019, 09:55:05 pm
content: Have you considered the new rigol 5000? 8Gsa, 4 channels, big screen with touch, dual AWG, 16 logic analzyer, hdmi and lan?Also, hacked by some genius members from here...I used to have a MSOX2000 from Agilent in the previous company, great usability.

author: jamesm66
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 02:33:30 am
content: Hi,I really appreciate your web site and I can't thank you enough with the wealth of information it has provided me.Being out electronic tech school over 30 years ( and not the greatest tech) your web site has shown me electronic principles that I never really never understood principles in that detial in the first place but understood them well enough to pass a written test.So I have analog CRT Oscilloscope JDR Microdevices 35 Mhz 2 channel O'Scope that had x y z inputs. The analog O'scope CRT one of the deflection amp has gone sideways on me. So back in the day when I routine involved dealing with electronics at components level there was a device that was an essentially a poor man's curve tracer/huntron tracker. As I recall it is a pretty simple circuit using a transformer 6.3 vac power input for the device and it had 2 connections that go to O'scope channel 1 (Y) and channel 2 (X) and then you would set the time base to X&Y on the O'scope and the input to the poor man's curve tracer device then you would connect your leads to the component . For example cap would show on the CRT O'scope as circle and Diode would be an almost vertical line and so on and so on.My question is how would I hook up this same poor man's curve tracer/huntron tracker device to a cheap ($200-$300 usd) digital Hantek 200 MHZ 2 channel digital O'scope ?I done see X&Y setting on the Time base on the Digital O'scope. All I am seeing sine waves I was expecting circle or straight horizontal line although my memory is really sketchy it has been probably 20 years since I use this last.Please advise,JamesM66

author: snoopy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 09, 2019, 04:57:46 am
content: Quote from: Gibson486 on October 16, 2019, 02:01:57 pmLook for a 2nd hand MDO3014 and then option it up yourself. Then the price starts to become very competitiveAll of the middle end scopes become very very expensive once you start adding the options and more expensive probes. This is not just a Tek phenomenon - it is marketing 101cheers

author: Smith
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 08:47:50 am
content: I would definitely consider the Rigol scopes. I used multiple digital Tektronix scopes ranging 1k - 30k, and I hated them all (really loved the analogue ones btw). Them are expensive, slow and the menu's are not that great. That is without even considering their huge costs. Newer models do look a bit better from what I see at some professional fairs. But nowadays I don't see much Tektronix scopes there any more.Just for this reason we bought a Rigol 6000 series scope (for another internal department) and I really love the thing. It's well built, reacts fast, menus are intuitive, and the included probes are so much nicer to use than the basic Tek ones. I personally hear more and more people choosing for Rigol. I also used some R&S/Hameg scopes a few years back, and they where very nice to use. I cannot recall the actual type, but it was some 2K 4channel 200MHz model. One of our other department seems to use more Keysight scopes. They are nice to use, but also a bit more expensive.

author: 0culus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 03:12:05 pm
content: Lab at work has a Keysight MSO-X 6k series scope. It's definitely got the immediacy of an analog CRO thanks to the ASIC running everything. If you need deep memory it's not the right choice, but it does very well otherwise.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2019, 08:02:21 pm
content: Quote from: 0culus on November 10, 2019, 03:12:05 pmAll the Keysights are like that, even the baby 1k series. It's because the sample memory is inside their ASIC and has massive bandwidth because of that.The flip side is that the amount of RAM is limited (as you note). You can't have you cake and eat it.