Tektronix TDS210 oscilloscope inside photos - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2013, 07:38:54 pm
content: Hi,I like to see what there is inside the Tektronix TDS210 oscilloscope.Someone have some hi-res photo of inside ?

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 07:40:56 am
content: I have a tds220 I've allways meant to pull apart, might do that in the next day or so and post some pics for you. From memory not much difference between the 2 except one's 60 and the other 100MHz

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 12:37:31 pm
content: Hi AlfBaz,Thank you !!!I wating for the photos .....

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 12:45:22 pm
content: I just had mine apart a few months ago to fully clean the front panel and buttons. Not much to see inside, still a scope I use all the time, it was my first DSO.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 01:49:32 pm
content: Not a lot... The scope board is the size of a credit card. Holds a motorola 68000, two asics and a ram.The frontpanel is a simple pcb with some 4049 schmitt triggers, the encoders are cheap plastic press fitted using the pcb as contacts. And the power supply is a huge board made by astecI think i have the guts from a dead one laying around.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 02:05:00 pm
content: Hi free_electron ,Thank you for your informations.If you have a chance to post some photos I like to see more details from inside ...

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 02:06:38 pm
content: It looks a bit boring indeed:

author: Carrington
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 02:15:57 pm
content: Wow...It seems a design very sober, I like.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 02:25:20 pm
content: Bottom left :motoroil 68k. Above two flash epromsThe national chip right of the 68k is an asic that holds the image processor, memory controller and graphic card.Long chip in soj is a micron dram. Under the shield is a few relays, some resistor networks and the AD converter (also custom and made by national semi).These ad run so hot they some times desolder themselves.... Tek actually has two retrofits for these scopes. O e is a bit of esd gasket that can electrocute you ... Needs to be removed .. The other is a small metal block to glue on the AD converter ... So it can dissipate its heat i to the top cover

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 02:43:06 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 10, 2013, 02:25:20 pmMmmm, I've had mine since the mid 90s IICR, don't recall for-sure. Heatsink hacking might be in order to keep it running for the next decade or two!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 03:04:05 pm
content: Wow.... that's the whole thing (except PSU and front panel)? I like it.

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 03:28:08 pm
content: I have one kicking around too.Missing a few knobs, anyone know where these can be had relatively cheaply?Does someone have a link to to details of the earth mod that was subject of the recall, that would also be good.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 03:34:46 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 10, 2013, 01:49:32 pmHow much would you want for a dead one? I've always wanted a cheap second scope.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 03:47:19 pm
content: Hi PA0PBZ ,Thank you for the photo !!It is very simple compared to recent models.Wating to look other photos ...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 05:03:11 pm
content: Quote from: echen1024 on August 10, 2013, 03:34:46 pmHmm be carefull not to waste your money and time. These scopes are the crappiest Tektronix ever made.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 06:32:22 pm
content: They are a laggy POS but they still sell truckloads of them to schools and other markets where brand and supply/support are more important than functionality.So, Tektronix did what any sensible mfg would do, and consolidated as much as possible.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 08:09:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 10, 2013, 05:03:11 pmJust because their specs suck nowadays doesn't make them crappy. They were very popular when they were introduced about 15 years ago, and in my opinion a decent replacement for an analog scope as long as you didn't need intensity grading or fast update speeds. This was their target market: replace low-end analog scopes in markets like education and service. They were the first scopes that offered real time sampling in an entry level DSO, none of that equivalent time sampling nonsense that all their competitors offered (so less aliasing that lead people to mistrust early DSOs). To achieve that, they compromised on memory depth, noise performance and used a passive LCD. What contemporary competitor would you suggest that offered better performance for a similar price?

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2013, 10:32:37 pm
content: Rule number one: never be an early adopter

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 01:10:03 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 10, 2013, 05:03:11 pmI got mine second hand when they where still selling brand new for around 4.5kCompared to analog scopes of the time it paid for itself in a couple of months. Being able to do single shot capture and other typical storage advantages plus 100Mhz back then was not an entry level scope requirement as it is today

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 01:33:18 am
content: Quote from: kayvee on August 10, 2013, 03:28:08 pmwhich knobs do you need ?

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 01:34:36 am
content: Quote from: echen1024 on August 10, 2013, 03:34:46 pmit's boards only. all the rest is gone. and the boards are defective ...

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 02:35:28 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 11, 2013, 01:34:36 amNot much experience in fixing digital scopes, so that seems like a no for me.

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 05:47:35 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 11, 2013, 01:33:18 amThe smaller ones. Two have split completely and number three now also has a hairline crack. Must have been a dodgy batch.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 10:47:38 am
content: These pictures may be a little redundant as the main boards already been posted but here they are anyway, including the communications module

author: Selectech
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 11:45:27 am
content: I had one for 16 years. Great little scope to take out to sites, traveled well, and was way better than any of the USB scopes in mid 2000's.Finally upgraded this year to a DS2102 and happy with that.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 11:47:59 am
content: Quote from: Selectech on August 11, 2013, 11:45:27 amI always thought of it as a field instrument, especially since mine came with the nifty carry bag

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 11:59:00 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 11, 2013, 11:47:59 amOnce upon a time in the late nineties, I was traveling by (small, crowded and cramped turboprop) plane from the UK to Denmark, carrying the assigned TDS210. I met and talked with a gentleman, who lugged a Tek 465 as carry on luggage. Didn't mind the TDS210 too much there and then.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 12:06:32 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 11, 2013, 10:47:38 amThank you very much for sharing!I've also got one TDS210, and really like it - as it nearly fits into my pocketFrank

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 01:10:43 pm
content: Someone in Europe sell one TDS 210 ?I'am interested to purchase

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 01:41:09 pm
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on August 11, 2013, 11:59:00 amThe small size and low weight of the TDS200 series are the only advantages. I used to have a Tek 2230 which had 4 times more memory and zoom so its actually useful to examine a waveform. I had to use a TDS220 at one of my former employers but in the end I got so fed up with it a bought a scope from Ebay (Iwatsu DSO) and took that to work. Nowadays you'd be utterly mad to spend a penny on an entry level scope from Tektronix.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 02:53:50 pm
content: swap the bnc's for right angle one's, replace the existing power supply board with your own that can run off some Li-ion batteries and make your own rear cover, you'd have a decent scope the size of a tablet... fit it in your brief case

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:18:29 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 11, 2013, 02:53:50 pmWhat Voltage need battery to work with this scope ?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:35:46 pm
content: Curious about the AD temps, I just jammed a TC between the chip and the heat shield, in good contact, let it sit for 30 min. Of course the case is split open to gain access, but the highest temp with both channels on is 130F with 70F ambient.EDIT:Make that 140F, as I move the TC around on the chip.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:40:26 pm
content: Quote from: luca1000 on August 11, 2013, 03:18:29 pmIt's not battery operated, mains AC only.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:44:02 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on August 11, 2013, 03:35:46 pmIs that on a 210? If so it would be interesting to see what the temperature is on a 220. If it's higher then my guess is they've just overclocked the 220

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:48:23 pm
content: What type of improvement (modification) can be done on TDS210 ?I see the most recent model have some ferrite ...Any idea ??

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 03:49:03 pm
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on August 11, 2013, 03:44:02 pmYup, on a 210.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 04:17:13 pm
content: Top side, shielding removed, nothing to see on the back.

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 04:39:48 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on August 11, 2013, 04:17:13 pmWhat type of improvevent will produce ?Can you explain better the modification with other photos (before and after) if possible ?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 04:43:05 pm
content: Quote from: luca1000 on August 11, 2013, 04:39:48 pmI'm just adding a heat sink, more or less just because. Running at 140F it should be fine, but cooler in this case won't hurt anything.Pict will follow, once the heat sink glue is dry!

author: luca1000
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 05:36:16 pm
content: To reduce noise can help some ferrite on inside bus wire in this scope ?On scope of other brand get noise reduction of 50%.The most recent Tektronix (TDS2024) use 2 ferrite as showed in picture:

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 05:57:53 pm
content: I would expect most of the noise to come from the analog shift register, so I don't expect adding a ferrite to be a huge improvement.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 06:03:40 pm
content: Appears to have reduced the temps to about 115F.Also, my IDC mains connector was about to fall off, held to the board by two super crappy rivets.Dave would have had a coronary if he'd have seen it!Good for another 20 years now.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 09:31:49 pm
content: Uh... hang on, where are the relays to switch stuff in that board, like AC, DC and Gnd coupling, attenuation? Are they just doing what autoranging handheld multimeters do to attenuate the input? The analog frontend doesn't look like a frontend at all. There seems to be too little stuff in there. That means it should be interesting to see how they do it in an schematic.Tek could make a handheld scope out of the chips used in here (using updated versions, and some intput protection of course).

author: casinada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 10:14:24 pm
content: Tektronix had Portable scopes like the THS720A and THS730A. They have the THS3000 line now.

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 10:35:16 pm
content: There's a plug behind the FPC connector, probably for programming the 68000. I spent years messing around with assembly on that 68000 (amiga 500) I wonder how much of it would come back to me

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 10:55:34 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on August 11, 2013, 09:31:49 pmThere is one optomos in that input stage. the rest is voltage divider with fet switches.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2013, 11:05:50 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on August 11, 2013, 10:55:34 pmWhy isn't this used in other oscilloscopes like the DS1052E and the Agilent rebadged Rigols (I assume they are the same)? It sounds cheaper and the bandwidth of those scopes is the same as these.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2013, 08:52:07 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 11, 2013, 01:41:09 pmBut the 2230 is 20MSPS, the TDS200 is 1GSPS! Hardly comparable.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2013, 08:53:21 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on August 11, 2013, 11:05:50 pmI think Tek patented their electronically switched attenuator scheme (designed by John Addis). Maybe it hasn't expired yet.

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2013, 09:09:43 pm
content: Hi guys!A friend of mine has a TDS210 and is thinking about connecting it using good quality 1000x probes to a 600 V thermionic valve circuit. How safe would that be? Also if I'm hijacking the thread too much, please tell me.

author: echen1024
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2013, 09:18:50 pm
content: Quote from: edavid on August 21, 2013, 08:53:21 pmHuh. I should just go buy one and turn it into the 'open hardware oscilloscope,' and add in a good multimeters. It would be a win-win!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2013, 01:05:38 am
content: Quote from: AndrejaKo on August 21, 2013, 09:09:43 pmAs long as the valve circuit is floating or grounded, this should be fine. The ground clip of a 1000x probe is still directly connected to ground. Even a good 100x probe should be sufficient, assuming it's 600 VDC or low frequency AC. 600 V RF is a totally different ball game. Note that the bandwidth of the HV probes designed to multimeters is quite limited (maybe a kHz or so). If it's a real scope HV probe (eg. Tek P6013/6015/6015a), then it will have decent bandwidth.Be careful with AC coupling, though. The maximum voltage in AC coupling mode is determined by the scope, and this is likely less than 600 V (check the manual).

author: AndrejaKo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2013, 08:04:24 am
content: Thanks! The frequencies will be pretty low, since it's an audio amplifier.