Choosing an oscilloscope for a visually impaired electronics hobbyist - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 01:22:20 pm
content: This question might raise some eyebrows, but well, life is strangeIt just so happened that I got interested in electronics since childhood despite the fact that I've been visually impaired since birth.Ok, I got my reality check done and did not become an electronics engineer; I became a programmer instead, which is actually not a weird profession for a seriously near-sighted person because software development is one of those rare jobs that lets you enlarge your "work objects".So, as a hobbyist who tinkers with Arduinos and sensors and does some easy repairs for friends from time to time, I would like to have a solid and portable scope that would let me do all the basic analog and digital stuff.Some years ago I made a mistake and bought a cheap USB scope from AliExpress. It was ok-ish, but it sometimes behaved unpredictably and I could not rely on it. Sometimes I got confused not seeing the expected signal and then I hard-restarted the scope, and the signal was there! Also, the software felt clumsy to use, requiring too much clicking around to focus on signals, when (IMHO) it could have been implemented as an intuitive and simple mouse zoom & pan instead. Also, as I don't work on electronics projects as often as I would like to, I found that I have to relearn all the quirks every time I use the scope.So, let's get to my wishlist:- there must be a way to control the device from a computer screen because that's the only way I can get texts large enough for my eyes. I know Rigols are the king of budget scopes, but I would need one that can send the display in real-time to my computer and, ideally, also be controlled from a computer. With a desktop scope, I would be overpaying for the display which might be of little use to me, unless I use magnifying glasses with it, which could get very inconvenient. However, I understand that Rigol scopes are far ahead in terms of features per $ and it might be a totally bad financial decision to buy a USB scope at all.- basic digital protocol decoding. I think I don't need a full MSO input, I could live with digital decoding on the analog scopes. My current cheap scope has that option and it kinda works, at least I've used it for UART.- reliable and intuitive to use - it should be easy to catch up even after prolonged periods of not using it. It's bad when your tool starts lying to you when you forget that it has some special quirk so you have to restart it to use some function immediately.- price - I think a reliable basic scope should not cost more than 200 EUR / USD. Unfortunately, looking at the basic USB scopes from reliable brands, my options are very limited for that price. I can get only Picoscope 2204A for 140 EUR. Is it worth it? Or should I aim higher? 2205A - 230 EUR. Analog Discovery 2 Pro bundle - 400 EUR.Analog Discovery 3 Pro bundle - 310 EUR. Rigol DHO802 - 415 EUR. Ouch, it's getting expensive, I really don't want to go higher than that.Thanks for reading this long text and I'll really appreciate any suggestions and ideas.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 02:41:58 pm
content: The new Rigol DHO800 ticks all those boxes.For "Arduino" you really need to go for four channels though.The price is something you simply have to accept. There really isn't much below 400 Eur that you won't regret later."USB" 'scopes seem like a good idea but... look around the forum. You won't find many people using them.FWIW: I also work mostly on "Arduino". I bought a Rigol DHO804 about a month ago and after using it I'm happy it's all the oscilloscope I need for my work.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 02:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: midix on November 23, 2023, 01:22:20 pmThat seems to be a common experience from the threads I've read on eevblog.Another thing to bear in mind is that their resale value will be zero. Rigols hold their value very well.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:01:32 pm
content: Quote from: midix on November 23, 2023, 01:22:20 pmA lot of the features of the AD are negated if you own an Arduino and know how to use it.(ie. All the digital pins and scripting)As an oscilloscope? They work but nowhere near as well as a dedicated one.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:07:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 23, 2023, 03:01:32 pmStill, with academic pricing they are rather nice. The AWG is rather good, and the Bode plot is great to tinker around and learn about the impedance of different components and combinations. Also for audio, if that's what you like.I do like it very much, and you have almost everything you need to start (bar DMM, and soldering iron maybe).

author: BeBuLamar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:08:42 pm
content: Well you're a programmer so you are good with computer so I still think a USB scope is a good idea as you can have the screen as large as you want. I have some cheap unit from Picoscope and they are quite good in my opinion. I work in automation and my hobby in audio so high bandwidth isn't needed so I have a 10MHz unit for for $150 or so.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:13:08 pm
content: I had a Pico for some time (second hand), but had to sell it, sadly. It was one of their first MSOs with AWG and digital channels. The software is awesome, and if you don't need more bandwith it might be a good choice. Still, nothing with 4 channels for 200 EUR.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:23:41 pm
content: Quote from: midix on November 23, 2023, 01:22:20 pmQuick question for clarification: Are you just looking for a way to show an exact copy of the oscilloscope's screen on a large external screen, with unchanged layout and relative sizes of fonts, icons etc.? Many recent oscilloscopes support that via their built-in web servers, and/or via a HDMI output.If, on the other hand, you are looking for a more customizable view on the computer screen -- with adjustable font sizes etc. -- I am not sure whether there are scopes which come with that option. If someone has come across scopes which offer this, maybe they can chime in. If it's not required and all you are looking for is a 1:1 enlargement of the scope screen, thank you for clarifying!

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:26:51 pm
content: Yeah, I lean towards Picoscope 2204A with the hope that it should be enough for basic Arduino sensor debugging and possibly some audio stuff. I don't think I ever would tinker with high-frequency stuff or video or radio signals. So, as long as 2204A is reliable and the software is reasonable (I'll check their demo version) it might be all I need.

author: midix
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:29:27 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on November 23, 2023, 03:23:41 pmYes, that's what I have in mind. As long as I have it running on a computer, I can enlarge it there through custom screen resolution, and it's good enough.

author: Antonio90
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 03:38:34 pm
content: It shouldn't be much of a problem with arduinos (unless maybe with relays or motors involved) but do bear in mind that the Analog Discovery and Picoscopes inputs are somewhat fragile.10X probes takes care of that, but they come with those damned switchable probes.

author: dmulligan
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 04:12:43 pm
content: The Rigol DHO800/900 series of scopes have an HDMI output and will accept a touch screen USB input as well. Alternatively you can view and control the scope using the web interface which mimics the scope's own touch screen with very little lag.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 04:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: midix on November 23, 2023, 03:26:51 pmPicoscopes have a good reputation but 10Mhz seems a bit lowfor Arduino work. An Arduino Uno can output a 8Mhz square wave which needs about 40Mhz bandwidth to see properly (8Mhz + the first two harmonics at 24Mhz and 36Mhz).Edit: I guess it depends on the bandwidth rolloff. 100Mhz sample rate is decent for that bandwidth, it isn't going to alias.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 04:51:05 pm
content: Quote from: midix on November 23, 2023, 03:26:51 pmKeep in mind that the Picoscope (AFAIK) doesn't have triggering on protocols. You'll also be stuck with a computer screen interface to control it which isn't optimal. I'd rate a Picoscope more suitable for signal analysis than use as a generic bench oscilloscope. Given your budget the Rigol DHO804 combined with a large touchscreen could be a worthwhile option but would still be more expensive then you like. However, don't expect the DHO804 to be a finished product in terms of firmware. For that, you'll need to spend a whole lot more. You know what they say about buying good, expensive tools: cry once, smile forever.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 04:56:45 pm
content: Quote from: Antonio90 on November 23, 2023, 03:38:34 pmI just saw that the Picoscope doesn't come with any probes so at least you get to choose.Fixed 10x probes are a very good idea but cheap ones aren't easy to find for some reason. It seems like those Chinese manufacturers are all playing the "moremustbe better!!!" game.Except sometimes it isn't.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 05:02:22 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on November 23, 2023, 04:24:59 pmI always buy switchable probes (Testec). The attenuation gets in the way every now and then when looking at small signals. The main problem is that many Picoscopes have a very limited input range.

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 05:30:56 pm
content: mmm on a brand new 2023 picoscope 3406 rev D i have 4 probes who came with it ?? but pricing was absurdly high 3400$ CAD

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 06:03:30 pm
content: Hello,I suspect that the Rigol DHO804 is the best solution.The Analog Discovery is a whole small lab and has very good software and you get very competent help in the forum.digilentinc.com, but if you can't see well, the many ports are probably a problem.Picoscopes are very expensive for their performance.Best regardsegonotto

author: Wallace Gasiewicz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2023, 06:16:57 pm
content: My HP 54820 Scope (500 MHz) has a VGA output. Any VGA monitor will work. You may want a bigger one but the normal about 15 inch ones go for about $10 at Goodwill. But the 54810 series is a big box.

author: PBJH927852
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 06:09:19 am
content: How do i connect 3 axis accelerometer to a single channel oscilloscope? thanks in advance...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 07:10:38 am
content: Probably want to do your research on the LAN/computer control app provided for each scope being considered.Often the software is an afterthought and is shit and full of bugs or requires lots of additional software library's to work.*cough* NI VISA *cough*A scope with external VGA/DVI/HDMI monitor plug, and a scope that supports a USB mouse/keyboard might be a better option.Can connect it up to a 42" TV if you had to. Scopes don't usually run that high resolution so should be huge on a big screen.Most scopes that have a touchscreen work just fine if you plug a USB kbd/mouse into them.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 08:26:09 am
content: The cheap probes are usually switchable. If wanted there is the option to glue the switch to a fixed 1:10 mode.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2023, 08:34:41 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on November 28, 2023, 08:26:09 amWith my cheap Rigol probes, you can just pop out the little protruding slider knob. Then the switch can still be pushed using a small screwdriver or such, in the rare event you want to use it. But is nicely recessed and cannot be moved accidentally.

author: Lochstreifen
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 28, 2024, 05:47:43 pm
content: The picoscope Software uses really tiny fonts that cannot be changed.There are some screenshots on their web site and you can also download and try the software in demo mode to see whether it works for you.

author: geggi1
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 12:13:02 am
content: Most modern scoops have the posibility for remote control.NI Labview has a hobbyist version for free.Beeing a programmer you would most likely be able to build a VI making you able to have full controll of your scoop.