FINALLY!! Vapor Phase reflow oven in reach of the DIY hobbyist!!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: rudydevolder
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:17:34 pm
content: Seems good and simple, well designed with cooling, sensors etc.: They have been working and tuning on this machine for 2 years now, they also have a mini and Jumbo model.Now at introduction price (only 599 Euro's ! ), I saw the thing working on a demonstration day last Saturday, really awesome: only 10 minutes for a complete setup and rework.Also the price for the Galden is OK. Only 130 Euro's for 500 ml is a bargain!http://www.imdes.de/condens_uk/condens_uk_pdf/mini-condens_it_price_list_uk_exhibition_21_06_2015.pdfI ordered mine already via a distributor in Holland:http://www.eleshop.nl/vapour-phase-soldeeroven-mini-condens-it.htmlI have also a Argentum inkjet-printer to print silver-ink circuits on paper or whatever. I hope I can begin testing in a few weeks from now. Printing circuits on paper and than reflow!But first I must order Galden HT200 and solderpaste because paper ignites at 210°C, but from what I read the Galden takes the paper in a oxygen-free environment, so maybe I can use the Galden HT230and the paper won't ignite?I'm eager to test and report you guys but I must say I'm already excited.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:39:24 pm
content: I saw this unit at the Friedrichshafen Ham Radio event in June, it's a fascinating idea. The unit works by placing the PCB on a wire grill in the center of the chamber. At the bottom of the chamber is a heating element and some substance that becomes a liquid then evaporates at about 280C. The chamber then fills with hot vapour that evenly melts the solder paste. No vapour escapes because of a) seals at the entrance of the chamber and b) during cool-down the vapour becomes liquid again and sinks to the bottom of the chamber.Damn clever

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 07:43:06 pm
content: Thread on this subject:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/vapour-phase-soldering/

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 10:13:31 pm
content: So the only difference between this and a vegetable steamer is that the fluid that happens to have the right boiling point and which doesnt negatively react with the solder paste costs 350 dollars per kilo, so you have to recollect it.This is next on my shopping list after a pcb cutting laser.

author: Spikee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2015, 10:46:51 pm
content: very interesting.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2015, 06:03:09 am
content: Quote from: KL27x on October 13, 2015, 10:13:31 pm

author: Niels :-)
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 16, 2015, 11:39:25 am
content: Quote from: rudydevolder on October 13, 2015, 07:17:34 pmOn request we have put the unit online on our English language website:https://eleshop.eu/vapour-phase-mini-condens-it.htmlWe are very enthusiastic about this unit. Compared to for example a T-962A reflow oven, we think vapour phase will yield better quality.

author: kb0thn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 09:25:19 pm
content: How do you like your mini system? I am very intrigued by this and ready to pull the proverbial trigger. Our batch reflow oven isn't cutting it anymore.Thanks,-James Jarvis

author: John_ITIC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 09:32:27 pm
content: How about putting up a demo video?

author: KE5FX
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 09:56:14 pm
content: Quote from: Niels :-) on October 16, 2015, 11:39:25 amThis does sound really nice. Are any safeguards needed to avoid overheating the fluorocarbon liquid, though? ("When the device registers that the vapour has risen above the PCB, it will shut down the heating and it starts cooling the container with fans.")I.e., if the heater cutoff switch fails, do I end up with a house full of phosgene?

author: sreeb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 06:44:34 am
content: Back in the early 80's, I watched this done in a prototyping lab.Setup was a large jar (we called it the pickle jar) on a stand and heated with a burner (can of sterno? DRC).I think there were two mercury thermometers, one in the liquid and one several inches above.Once it was heated up (both thermometers same temp), you placed your work piece on a wire "ladle" and lowered it into the vapor.When you saw the solder flow, you pulled it out.When you were done, you put a lid on the jar.I don't remember the liquid disappearing very fast if at all.

author: sreeb
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 12, 2016, 07:06:24 am
content: Quote from: KE5FX on January 12, 2016, 09:56:14 pmIn an unpressurized environment, you can't overheat it. You will end up with an empty container and your very expensive liquid condensed on the floor of your house though.Cooling of the container, probably at the top, is to minimize fluid loss.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 01:42:37 am
content: We bought a Jumbo.. The idea is awesome. Sadly the build quality of the machine leaves a lot to be desired.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 02:14:20 am
content: Quote from: mrpackethead on October 05, 2016, 01:42:37 amCould you provide details? What are the consequences of this so-called poor "build quality"?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 02:27:19 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on October 05, 2016, 02:14:20 amhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/mini-blog-imdes-vapour-phase-purchase/

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 05, 2016, 04:49:01 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on October 05, 2016, 02:14:20 am(1) I cnat' leave a AC/DC power supply bolted on the side of a box like that. The AC cabling and terminals are potnetially exposed. They have stuffed hotmelt glue in there. Theres no need for the psu to be mounted like this.(2) The lid doe'stn seal quite properly so you get some vapour coming out the sides..(3) Rough Metal edges.. Not good for fingers.(4) The tray you use to sit thigns on is very poorly made. Its not going to last long. Using bolts as and washers and stand offs is ugly.

author: zzattack
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2019, 08:55:53 am
content: I wonder what caused this oven to triple in price. Are there other competing solutions available already, perhaps at a more friendly price point?

author: KL27x
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 07:17:47 pm
content: My guess would be this is 1 man operation. And that he initially underestimated time and labor for production and support. And demand and bulkiness of the finished product (high shipping rate) just don't warrant outsourced production at a lower cost.

author: Koen
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 08:11:32 pm
content: Rudi wrote only three posts, all about this, and never came back to share his experience.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 14, 2019, 10:23:53 pm
content: Quote from: KL27x on May 14, 2019, 07:17:47 pmYes, a single man operation, had Lots of warranty claims and repairs. Ups to them, they refunded me about 80% of the purchase price. If you look, theres another thread about DIY vapour phase. I really liked the ideas of the IDEMS but its implmentation was so poor it was just not going to ever be able to be used in our production due to Heath/Saftey and Electrical Safety issues. The PID controller was also seriously inaqauade as basically the system was 'heat as fastas you can to 230C' and the siwtch on the fan and cool as best you can. But yes, it did reflow, but not with any sensible profile.I went on and built my own tanks ( folded/welded stainless steel ) and Control systme and its done me really well. THough it was a lot of work, but it is safe and reliable, and follows a good profile. Someone asked a while back if it was possible to DIY and i thought about it, and thought, yeah. i think this is. So in the well tested path of converting kithen appliances for soldcering, i've been hacking a Vapour Phase 'Fryer' out of a domestic electric frying pan. So far its working pretty well, i have thermocouples and Triac control connected to a Ardunio.. I need to do some more work on the cooling side, as at this stage its not cooling fast enough.