Help finding matching tactile switch? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:00:45 am
content: Hopefully this is the right section, as it did say technical stuff?Basically, I'm trying to find a quality matching switch for an xbox controller. I have ones that fit and work, but they never seem to last more than a few months, so I'd rather find something with a higher life rating from mouser/digikey/whatever else.On the package, these are listed as 6x6x5 support. I can even filter down just using right angle and 6x6 and get a lot of visually close matches, but then a lot are missing stem height and though the models are different, they all use the same datasheet. Is stem height and height meaning the same thing? Even then, I don't seem to find anything matching the 4.3mm I'd need.https://www.mouser.com/c/electromechanical/switches/tactile-switches/?length=6%20mm&mounting%20direction=Right%20Angle&width=6%20mmI have attached a drawing with some measurements. Perhaps I'm going about trying to search incorrectly?Help?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 02:01:17 pm
content: The datasheet (I assume you’re talking about the CK brand) has a drawing showing the answer to your question.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:30:28 pm
content: Welcome to the forumsThese switches have a wonky way to specify post length. Here one company measures to the backside of the switch, when another only uses the post length edit: OR from post to switch PINS. The reference dimension location varies. You have to be careful what the manufacturer means when they say "5mm".I find Omron are the best but expensive and not easy to find this style. e-switch I dislike their quality, soft shitty plastics and cheap construction.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:39:26 pm
content: For more durability you want switches with lower actuation force rating, generally they are rated for quite a bit more cycles.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:49:07 pm
content: I was aiming for something like a million cycles, once I can find the correct one. Those seem to be a good bit more expensive, but honestly I'd pay $10+ for a single switch if it was the last time I had to replace one.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:54:08 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 27, 2024, 02:01:17 pmCorrect, but as mentioned, a lot of the switches use the exact same datasheets, so I am unable to tell which one would match. Multiple stem heights, but the datasheet shows a single measurement.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 06:58:25 pm
content: You could try Omron B3F-3120 (1M cycles) or B3F-3122 (more actuation force, 300k cycles)

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:09:10 pm
content: I'm thinking B3F-3120, just for the theoretical cycle usage. Need to figure out something else to order, since it is $8 shipping on a $.47 part

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:16:09 pm
content: I suggest buying a few different parts, just in case if you don't like actuation force or some do not last. There is also gold plated 300k version B3F-3122-G. May help if they have unreliable contact rather than give up mechanically.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:25:43 pm
content: What happens is they start double clicking, but always still function.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:32:48 pm
content: If it still has normal mechanical feel, then contact is poor. Either plating has worn off or contacts/dome has oxidized/corroded due to moisture or corrosive gases. May be contamination too, if there is say greasy shit flying in the air.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:35:31 pm
content: Definitely cannot be the second. From the factory, sometimes these only last a few months. Unfortunately, that gold plated option is out of stock until May.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:41:01 pm
content: Arrow has them,https://www.arrow.com/en/products/b3f-3122-g/omron?displaymode=GoogleAmpAlthough I don't know shipping cost

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 07:43:05 pm
content: Yes, they were the only place I could find them, but shipping is $22 since it comes from HK. Hopefully the normal version will do the job. I think anything will be better than the ones from the 250 piece bundle on Amazon I've been using.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2024, 08:38:30 pm
content: Quote from: Avrution on January 27, 2024, 06:54:08 pmCan you give an example of what is confusing you? A typical multi-part datasheet will call out the variable dimension as “dimension ‘X’”, and somewhere on the datasheet there will be a table associating part number to dimension “X” values.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2024, 12:13:53 am
content: Sure.https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK/PTS645VL832LFS?qs=FQH5YrIbzh8Co3YK32H7Jw%3D%3Dhttps://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CK/PTS645VL582LFS?qs=FQH5YrIbzh%2FxjYwrgriFhw%3D%3DBoth use the same spec sheet -https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/240/Littelfuse-3050591.pdfActuator height is what the difference is going to be, but I don't understand how they get the measurements based on the drawing. 5.85 or 8.35, but dimension H shows 4.2

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2024, 07:57:15 pm
content: The CK PTS645 dimension reference is' end of post to the switch's PINS'.This is more popular with manufacturers- (end of post to pins) distance given. You can do math to figure out the actual post length.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2024, 11:55:38 pm
content: Feel kind of dumb, but looking again zoomed in like that it makes sense. 4.2 PLUS H.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 02:34:49 am
content: That 4.2mm takes one to the back of the mounting bracket, ick.Let us know what you end up using, I can't remember the size of these switches.Funny I'd replaced these bumper switches for a friend and felt they were a bit sticky with the big button so I put expensive teflon lube on the end of the post to fix that.Later I get a phone call from the mom, her kid using that controller is wiping everyone's @ss now "what did you do, the entire household is in an uproar" lol. The standing champ (older brother) got dethroned.Usually it's the analog joysticks that wear out.

author: andy3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:30:25 am
content: Is it anything like these?

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 06:12:32 am
content: Top style, but right angle version

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 11:47:58 am
content: What's the failure mode of the replacement parts? Do the buttons start acting like they have dirty contacts (ie double-presses & failed/intermittent presses)?I'm lead to believe that many switch datasheets lack an important spec: "minimum" operating current. If the contacts make and break currents lower than this amount then they degrade (and/or don't self-clean). The metal alloys used in the switch contacts, the dimensions of the contacts and the contact forces are all important factors that affect the minimum current. Going for 1-million cycle switches may actually make things worse, they may last even less cycles than the lower-rated switches, depending what current the controller is using to measure them and what they are designed for.See this topic:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/omron-microswitches-increasing-failure-rate-and-failing-mice-durability/

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2024, 05:13:07 pm
content: Exactly what you mentioned. I have been through 10 controllers, new mind you, and they all end up with double click or no response clicks on the same bumper. Usually they start as double clicks.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 01:21:00 am
content: Surprisingly it can caused by the controller's firmware - the debounce time needs to be longer as the spring and mech wear with age.I have no idea of Xbox controller F/W rev history, I wonder if it was ever updated.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2024, 04:02:43 am
content: Yes, they have had a number of updates in the years I have had the controller(s). Double click on the bumpers is really common.

author: Avrution
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 06:44:45 pm
content: Little update, I ended up ordering 3 different switches of increased actuation strength. I think I actually like the hard push of the 260gf model so I will start with that one. Comparing that with the standard black 100gf I cannot believe the difference in feel.Since this one only has a 100k life versus 300k and 1m, should I really worry about that?

author: Whales
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2024, 09:09:16 pm
content: The lifetimes are only valid if you use the switches within their specified operational envelope (applied force, electrical current, etc). It's useless reading the numbers like 100k & 1M unless you first verify that the controller is using them within their specified operational envelope. A 100k switch could outlast a 1M switch.