I NEED AN OSCILLOSCOPE! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Dylon124
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2013, 11:27:09 pm
content: I'm involved in electronics for some time and I'd like to finally get an oscilloscope. I found that I've been running into many situations where I need one Like in testing power supplies over time. Some anyone own or suggest an oscilloscope I can get. Analog or digital? Price expectancy? Please help me!!!!

author: peter.mitchell
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2013, 11:56:44 pm
content: All depends on budget.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 30, 2013, 11:57:35 pm
content: This post pisses me off.Rather than come on the forum with 'I need a scope'. How about reading the forum first. There is a wealth of information on scopes here.So stop being a lazy bastard and do some basic research and background reading first.

author: K6TR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:22:59 am
content: Dylan your question is overly broad to the point where it is difficult to give you an answer in a short response. First you need to very carefully assess your needs. This is not as simple as it sounds. Next to the Multimeter the Oscilloscope will probably be the second most used piece of equipment on your bench. Then you have to assess what your budget is and if you are able to forego that purchase to save your pennies for a more capable platform in the future. The prices of Oscilloscopes range from $400 for the cheapest models brand new to $16,000 for those with the highest capabilities. You say your work involves power supplies. Are you always going to be doing that ? Is that the only thing you want it for ? If so you should be able to get by with a scope at the lower end of the price range. But let's say you want to expand into Radio Work. Your old scope purchased for power supply work may not serve you for those purposes. That will require you to go out and purchase another scope. The same can be said if your work extends up into the VHF Spectrum, if you are going to do TV Work, or even Microwave work. Excellent bargains can be had on the used equipment market but you have to know what you are looking for and how to evaluate it's condition. A cheap scope may be more than acceptable if you have come to grips with the reality that you may have to purchase and 2nd or 3rd as your needs increase.Dave has a number of Videos on scopes. You should view them all before you pull your money out of your pocket. Another excellent source of videos on Oscilloscopes is Alan Wolke's Youtube page. He is an Applications Engineer with Tektronix arguably the foremost producer of Oscilloscopes in the world. He has close to 90 videos up on his you tube page. About a third deal with oscilloscopes and range from questions deal with basic issues to circuits that can turn your oscilloscope in a TV Monitor. here is the link :https://www.youtube.com/user/w2aewIt will take a considerable amount of time to go through all of it but it will be time well spent.Bob

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:27:09 am
content: Well, there are many threads about oscilloscopes...Why to start a new one.

author: Joules
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:48:50 am
content: Ahh, but none with a Poll like this onePoll deleted

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:09:56 am
content: I am new to 'scopes also and have a lot of questions too. I understand where you guys are coming from with the specifics, but keep in mind a lot of new guys don't know what they don't know, if you will. That makes it hard to search the forum for useful info since all I can really search is oscilloscopes or the like, and I could read for days or even weeks and possibly not find what is important to advise a purchase. I have been looking at older analog scopes and some of the borderline digitals from when they first started transitioning. I am a bit confused by the sampling rates, but as far as I can gather, it is essential to get as high a sampling rate as you can if you get a storage scope. Is it absolutely necessary to get storage? What kinds of things could I accomplish with a storage scope that wouldn't be possible with a non-storage 'scope? Most of the work I will be doing in the foreseeable future would be small motor drive circuits and electronic device repairs of all sorts. Would I be just fine with a non-storage analog 'scope?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:23:45 am
content: The difference is that you, eKretz, have specific questions. If you "don't know what you don't know",readrather than expecting everyone to know for you. Pick up a book, have a go at Google, whatever, but if you don't know what you don't know, that means you haven't spent long enough absorbing information.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:26:45 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 01, 2013, 01:09:56 amAgree at some degrees, butat leastany scope's noob should come up with "budget", c'mon, how hard could this be ?

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:27:25 am
content: eKtretz: Your post is already infinitely better than the original post, since you ask some specific questions. Storage is not essential. I would prefer a good analog scope over an early digital scope. Early digital scopes tended to have a low sampling rate or very short memory. You want a decent memory (say at least 10k points) and decent sampling rate (>= 200 MS/s). I would not bother with anything less than a Rigol DS1052E. Refer to Dave's rant titled'Buy a real analog oscilloscope please!if you're considering the cheap PC-based/DSO-nano like DSO offerings. Normal analog scopes can only observe repetitive phenomena, for example a continuous audio signal or power supply ripple. Digital storage scopes are useful for 'single-shot' events, for example the turn-on spike of a system, or a serial data stream. The far majority of the problems can be solved with either an analog or a digital scope.There are also analog storage scopes, just ignore these. They are completely obsolete.A good place to start would be Dave's videos about the Rigol DS1052E and the Tek 2225 (these were quite early, search his Youtube channel), and some of the introductory videos on W2AEW's Youtube channel. You will need to understand what a scope is if you want to make an informed decision.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 01:29:37 am
content: For someone just getting into a hobby, "budget" can be hard to quantify. I know that when I was just starting, I had no idea at all what I was willing to spend on something like that. I'd rather figure out what I need, then decide whether I am willing to buy it. If I won't, it won't do me much good to settle for something less, since I "need" it - I'll just settle for basket weaving for a while until I can afford it.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 03:10:10 am
content: Thank you alm, good info there. I appreciate your candid and helpful answer.QuoteThis is true, but at the same time, it could be said about anyone who asksanyquestion. The point of asking a question of those who already know the answer rather than reading everything one can find is to get the answer quickly and thereby increase the rate of learning. If everyone took the approach of just reading about everything related to a subject of interest, there would be a lot of unnecessary garbage floating around in our brains, and alotof wasted time. People have been bitching about people asking noob questions since right after the internet began. For me, personally, I am happy to help out a noob, when one comes along who knows less than me. I guess my point is that I can see both sides of the coin, and neither one should make anyone "pissed off" IMO. %-B If anyone has any questions about machining, feel free to ask, BTW!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:14:45 am
content: Dylon124You are obviously new to asking questions, new to forums, new to polls, and new to dealing with people.You need to say where you are, what price you are thinking, what you want to do, and pose a question that someone can answer. If you don't do these things you will be viewed as a troll and people will not help you.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:51:37 am
content: The only answer to the poll is 42, and that isn't an option.

author: eevblogfan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 05:12:57 am
content: heyWhy don't you contact your local distributor ( agilent or any other ) and ask him for either used or new one to your budget ?I bought mine for only 800$ ( with all the wavegen and DVM - the cost is near 2K , while I got it only for 800$ )I need to know your budget , please shear it with us , assuming you can save 200$ A- month , please do so and buy some rigolto my opinion you don't need more then the DS1052E , it's cost is ridiculous , around the 300~400$ and within two month of saving you will manage to buy it successfullyI also recommend you to get some analogue 20Mhz 1mV per DIV resolution scope , no matter what brand , please talk to the local university and ask for old analogue one , they might ask for 10$ and might give that for freee !!!!!!!!Cheers !

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 05:13:12 am
content: Quote from: K6TR on May 01, 2013, 12:22:59 am$16,000 for a scope isn't much, and only buys you a some midrange model. High end scopes can easily surpass $200,000.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 05:38:28 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 01, 2013, 01:09:56 amThat's true, but then you would also find previous threads where other beginners have asked most of the basic questions already.QuoteDigital scopes always employ storage as this is how they work, so there is none without storage capabilities. It's only with analogue scopes where you distinguish between scopes without storage functionality and scopes which have a storage CRT.Analog storage scopes also don't have a sampling rate.In terms of what sampling rate you need if you get a DSO, this depends on what the highest sine frequencies are you want to look at. The max real-time sampling rate of your scope should ideally be ten times the highest sine frequency content of the signals you want to look at (which includes glitches). For example, if you look at mostly non-repetitive sine waves up to say 20MHz, then say a 50MHz scope with 200MSa/s would probably easily do the job. However, if you look at non-repetitive non-sine signals (i.e. say square waves or pulses), which essentially are combination of multiple sine waves at the same and higher frequencies, it gets a bit more complicated. Let's say you are looking at 10MHz square waves, in this case you'd probably want at least a 100MHz with at 500MSa/s or better.QuoteA non-storage analog scope only shows you what's happening in real time, which can make rare glitches very hard to find and often impossible to quantify. An analog storage scope at least lets you capture such events, but only a DSO lets you properly examine glitches.Unless you're really tight on cash, I'd get a DSO.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 06:23:23 am
content: Wuerstchenhund - (little sausage dog?) Do I remember my German correctly?Thank you very much for your post. The guideline of 10x the frequency is something that is useful and understandable. I get where you're coming from re: finding other beginners' posts, but I have also been kvetched at for dredging up necro-posts on some forums too. I guess sometimes you just can't win.What it seems to come down to is that one needs to know exactly what one will be doing with it to get a good clear and concise recommendation for a 'scope, and in many beginners' cases, they really have naught but a general idea. This is where Dave's recommendation of an analog starter scope begins to make a lot of sense. Personally, I hate buying things more than once, so when I have the means I prefer to buy something that will last me and be of good quality so that it won't need to be replaced anytime soon. My means are a little short at the moment, (bad back, failed surgeries) but hopefully that will change eventually.Again I would like to thank all the persons who have contributed to the discussion and attempted to answer my -and Dylan's- questions.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:40:50 am
content: I'm not sure if buying the best piece of equipment once and for all is the best plan. I usually buy the cheapest equipment I can find and upgrade (sell and buy something different) when necessary.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:41:48 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on May 01, 2013, 04:51:37 amI voted for "analogue or digital", on the basis that one or the other is very likely to meet the OP's requirements.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:53:51 am
content: Quote from: alm on May 01, 2013, 01:27:25 amObsolete,true enough,but only the very early analog storage 'scopes (circa 1950)hadcompromised performance when used in the non-storage mode.You can quite happily ignore the storage function & the 'scope will still be a useful instrument.For instance,my Tektronix 7613 has the same performance as its non-storage equivalent.OK,it's something else to go wrong,but people may shy away from them,allowing you to get a bargain,as I did.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 10:50:17 am
content: I couldn't decide which to select in the poll,Which oscilloscope should I get?orDigital or analog?The question depends on what you want to accomplish with it. I would not spend a lot (in scope terms) on a first scope. If you do decide on digital I would check out the Rigol DS2072. Under $1,000 at 70 MHz. My self, I use an analog scope the most but I work in mostly restoring vintage electronics and have opted for a good older Tek analog scope along with a cheap DSO for quick waveform measurements. Again, it all depends on what you want to do with it.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:51:39 am
content: Quote from: SLJ on May 01, 2013, 10:50:17 amI think it's clearly "Which oscilloscope should I get?" as the OP obviously has no idea what he wants. "Digital or analog?" would indicate that he had spent some time researching the basics, which apparently he has left us to do for him.

author: Ghydda
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:04:13 pm
content: Instead of discussing off topic why not present the dude with a small list and let him be on his way?If you have never touched a scope before, get an old'ish CRT based model with two channels and 50MHz bandwidth.If you are a little experienced, get the Rigol DS1052E.If you want more capability further down the road without having to swap gear, get the Rigol DS2072 or DS2202 (for the upgradable function).If neither option is to your liking, then you need to be able to be much more specific in stating your exact needs and wants.As no recommendation will suit all forum users here I'm sure the suggested list will vary from person to person.But on the whole, can anybody say this would be a bad list to choose from?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:18:48 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 01, 2013, 06:23:23 amExactlyQuoteYou're welcome! The thing to remember when you look at frequencies however is not just about the frequency of the signal you're looking at, you should also consider what possible glitches (which can have much higher frequency contents than the base signal) you want to capture and examine. Which i admit for a starter is not easy.QuoteThere's no need to revive old threads. Just do a search and read a bit around, and you might find the answer to at least some of your questions. Then just open a new thread for the remaining ones. You should not be afraid to ask, asking is perfectly fine (at least as I'm concerned). It just helps to show that you at least tried to find answers yourself.QuoteYes, it's very difficult for many starters to recognize what they actually need, but people here can certainly help if they're given as much information as possible (i.e. what are your ideas what you want to do, and most importantly, your budget).QuoteI'd say forget it, it does not work. if you are a beginner you most certainly won't know where your path in EE will end up going, so you will be paying an overly high amount of money for features you either won't need, or if you need them later on can be had for much less money. Also don't forget that a decent EE lab contains of much more tools than justa scope and a DMM, and you want to have some money for say an AWG (Arbitrary Waveform Generator) and good hand and soldering tools.Buy a decent but not overly expensive entry level scope now, and save money for something better when you find that your requirements have out-grown your scope. I'd recommend getting a decent DSO as a first scope (many people recommend that the first scope should be analogue as it is better for learning, I disagree with that) but even an analogue one will do for a beginner.

author: Paul Price
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 12:57:19 pm
content: Every area has garage sales and flea markets as well as online internet auctions, and there you should find and buy the cheapest scope you can find. Learn how to use it and then, if it fails to fit your needs, graduate to a more capable and expensive model. I managed to get my first oscilloscope from an online auction. It was advertised at $20 U.S. and when I visited the seller I discovered that one of the channels was erratic. So I got it for $10 and quickly fixed the problem, it just was a dirty contact on the vert. channel switch and a shot of WD40 lubricant fixed it. Although a chinese 20-MHz two channel scope, it serves me well for most of my work...or else I could have spent $3000 for a digital scope that might work a bit better.

author: maiakaat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 03:00:33 pm
content: I second the need to consider more than just sample rate and memory depth, update rate is probably just as important.Lots of relatively cheap scopes have great headline figures, especially the cheapest of the Chinese products, but you need to look in detail, find a few reviews.There is some debate about whether you should ask such an open question, and further debate over how the community should respond (ie, a paraphrased quote from elsewhere; "If you need to ask you shouldn't be using Linux","read the man pages")You need to understand what you don't know, and learn, there also maybe language barriers where you do have this background knowledge, but it is lost in translation.I did a lot of reading and learning, and the main things for a digital scope are:Waveform update rate (typical and max) combined with Memory depth (the number of samples captured- A 50,000 wf/s update rate with 100,000kpt's of memory over faster frequencies is much better than a scope with 2M of memory and a capture rate of 400 wf/s over faster frequencies- If a scope manufacturer doesn't publish this figure be vary weary and only trust the scope if the brand reputation is significant for the priceBandwidth (the fastest frequency of signal you can measure) combined with Sample Rate (the speed of capture)- 400Mhz of bandwidth with 400Msps is far from ideal, although many older (expensive) scopes use techniques to sample at a higher frequency where the signal changes most. A scope with 400Msps is at best going to manage about 100Mhz of it's Bandwidth for repetitive signals, and a sine wave would look like a triangle wave if it didn't have techniques to sample at a higher frequency in short bursts. Ignore the equivalent sampling rate, and check the sampling rate when all channels are used.Post sales support and warranty- Buying from China if you are in Europe is going to pose some significant problems if you have an early problem, likewise buying a scope with reliability problems (especially a scope with reliability problems and no manufacturer after-sales support)- In the US this is likely to be significant even if you buy locally, as Europe has much better consumer protection generally (if you are in the EU), so read about the proposed scope Online from buyersTrigger options- Most benchtop scopes have decent trigger options now, but some PC based scopes may only have rising and falling edge, this isn't enough. You can probably ignore the video trigger for most use cases.Upgradeability- Some manufacturers offer upgradability, if you want to get a good basic scope and add features later as a balance of budget and flexibility in features and functionality then this is worth considering.Warnings - Astroturfing.Online reputation management has become key to most businesses and you have to be able to identify genuine reviews and comments from resellers and sales/marketing persons online.Based on you comment I think a last generation Rigol DS1052E is probably best, I recommend this because you can pick them up direct from Rigol (I think) for barely £300, and because usability of a digital scope is probably easier for a newcomer than an analog scope. In this price range I would still back Rigol over upcoming brands purely due to the lack of unknowns in it's performance, the general quality and availability from authorized resellers on the same continent, and the disputed support that is still probably arguably better than an unknown Chinese seller who might present problems if something goes wrong.If you want something a bit newer then you probably have a choice between the Rigol Ds2xxx series and Agilent DSO/MSO 2000X who most agree are probably the industry leader in lower price points (under £10,000), these offer upgrades through software, and may offer better post sales support, but charge for literally everything, so offer poor value for money against Rigol.The upgradeability option is of significant importance if you want to do digital work, Rigols (soon to be legacy I would think) DS1052D offers the only affordable MSO I have seen which can be bought in confidence at the moment. Agilent offer better value alternatives from around £1600, and upgrade to MSO options once you have spend at least £850 on a basic MSO2000X, it might genuinely be more cost effective to find a decent USB based logic analyzer.This is a gross oversimplification, but there are good unbiased documents published by the likes of Tektronix and Agilent on all of these topics, along with the whole internet, which Google should be able to help with.All of these scopes are reviewed by Dave, and are widely discussed Online, in the analog world I think Tektronix were king, and Dave also discusses which candidates to go for in the sub £180 range at auction.If you are serious, a DSO Nano isn't going to cut it, and the signal generator is probably going to cost as much as the scope. You can get AD9850 premade boards on EBay for £4 though, which can be hooked up to an Arduino via open source software. You should be able to find this stuff via Google.-Being able to find and manage information is an underrated skill (this is why I haven't provided any links)

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:00:09 pm
content: Quote from: maiakaat on May 01, 2013, 03:00:33 pmI disagree. Very high wfm update rates can probably be helpful if your work consists of finding very rare glitches in your signal, but even on a slower entry level scopes you will find the glitch eventually. However, if your bandwidth is too low then you may never even know it's there, no matter how good the wfm rate of your scope is. Same is true for the sample rate btw.Memory depth is important in a way as larger memory means higher sample rates at slower timebase settings, and large memory helps to capture more information in one sweep, but for a beginner's scope it's very likely a minor concern.QuoteNo, it isn't. There are many applications which benefit from large memory but where high wfm rates make little difference. Generalizations like the one above are not helpful as the usefulness of a certain scope property very much depends on the specific application. And I'm pretty sure the wfm rate matters little for most beginners (and probably even most more advanced users).QuoteEiither this, or the scope's specification simply predates the time when Agilent put a marketing spin of waveform rates. For many older scopes the wfm rate is only listed in some data sheets or may not have been listed at all. Not because the manufacturer believes it is something to hide, but simply this parameter wasn't that important before Agilent used it as a brand differentiator.Bandwidth (the fastest frequency of signal you can measure) combined with Sample Rate (the speed of capture)QuoteI would be very careful with manufacturer-provided information, as especially in Agilent's case most of their documents are heavily biased against their own products, probably more so than Tektronix.Strangely enough the least bias towards their own products seems to be shown by LeCroy.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:10:52 pm
content: Wow, all this discussion from one trollish question from a first time poster asking nothing..... and he has not responded once? What are you guys discussing?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:20:49 pm
content: Multimeter safety

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 04:28:48 pm
content: Well I might deserve that, but I do participate in other things too. %-B

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 07:27:26 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 01, 2013, 04:10:52 pmWell, they are discussing my addendum, I'd guess.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:43:06 pm
content: OK, how about this: There is a Tektronix TDS 754A for sale local to me (500Mhz, 2Gs/s) with options: 13 - Serial/parallel printer option, 1F - Floppy disk drive, 1M - Extended deep memory, 2F - Advanced DSP math/FFT option, and something called InstaVu. Would that be a better scope to get than say a Rigol 2202? What is InstaVu? I have been googling trying to figure out what it is, but can't find anything. Also, I could swear I saw in one of Dave's videos that he was saying the Rigol 2202 was something like $800 but the cheapest I've seen it was more like $1,400.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:50:20 pm
content: A TDS75A is a very nice scope. You may need to change the small SMD electrolytics on several boards though but it depends on the age of the oscilloscope. Instavu is a mode with a high waveform capture rate.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:54:19 pm
content: For those in the UK and Europe after a digital scope, I've got an assortment coming in next week.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 08:57:19 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 01, 2013, 08:43:06 pmIt's a very good scope, but at the end of the day it depends on condition (the TDS700 Series was prone to leaking capacitors, which can damage the PCBs, so if the scope is still working fine and passing all tests the caps should be replaced) and price. If the price is right and the condition ok then I'd take the Tek over a Rigol any day.QuoteInstaVu is a marketing term that refers to the high waveform update rate of the TDS754A.

author: kfitch42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 09:03:15 pm
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 01, 2013, 08:43:06 pmInEEVblog #451 – Rigol DS1052E vs DS2072 OscilloscopeHe was actually using a 2202 (200Mhz), but he was talking about the 2072 (70MHz), at least when talking about price. I was just a bit confused about this myself after the video.

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 09:15:12 pm
content: The price on the 754a is ~$800 USD and it has been refurbed professionally a while back, supposedly works perfectly. No probes included though.

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 01, 2013, 11:22:18 pm
content: After Dave's last mailbag, I went and took a look at the Digilent Analog Discovery. I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw.http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERYFor a start-up hobbyist, I think this is a perfect device. The vertical resolution of 14 bits is very interesting and with a 100MSa/sec rate, easily does 10MHz frequencies. Oh, and as a bonus, both channels are differential, so in theory no issues with grounding. What's more impressive is the wave form generator, built-in supplies, voltmeter and the 16-channel digital analyser with support for decoding the usual beginner suspects such as SPI, I2C, UART and even 8-bit bus decode mode. The WFG is so impressive, I'm considering dumping my quest for a stand-alone unit to rather get this one.I downloaded their software and ran it in DEMO mode which allows you to introduce "fake" inputs, noise, etc and the WF update rate seems more than adequate for the intended purpose - certainly faster than what I've seen on the Rigol DS1000 series.Of course, it's not as fast as my 1GSa/sec scope and there are many minor gripes I can throw at the software, but that's not the audience here. I think any start-up hobbyist will be very well off with this kind of device and, more importantly, be able to figure out to what they want to upgrade next - IMHO it will make the ideal companion for somebody starting out with, say, an Arduino or similar platform.Now, to find a South African distributor that does not try to rip you off at 3 times the priceI hope Digilent ships to SA directly.--deckert

author: eKretz
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 02:17:16 am
content: Now a new wrench in the works. There is also a TDS540C on offer for nearly the same price. Which would be the better one to get?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 05:16:19 am
content: Quote from: Deckert on May 01, 2013, 11:22:18 pmThe website above clearly says that the analog bandwidth is limited to 5MHz, which quite frankly is very limiting even for a beginner. It might be great as an additional toy for learning and experimenting but I would not go as far as using this thing as a replacement for a real oscilloscope.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 05:23:35 am
content: Quote from: eKretz on May 02, 2013, 02:17:16 amThe TDC754A is the better scope (color display, higher sample rate in multi channel config).

author: Deckert
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 08:15:19 am
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on May 02, 2013, 05:16:19 amI guess it would depend on what you would define as a beginner ;-)As an experiment, I turned down my bench scope to a max sample rate of 100MSa/s and set the input filter down to 5MHz. There was very little in the day-to-day stuff that I couldn't measure. The only thing that I could not measure was the 66MHz noise pulse from a switching DC-DC convertor component, but that's hardly a beginner's issue.I would agree wholeheartedly that it is not a replacement for a real (bench) oscilloscope. The waveform gen is still impressive, as are the other digital I/O features.--deckert

author: maiakaat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 09:46:18 am
content: QuoteSurely once it's over a certain timebase the extra memory is irrelevant on a single sweep, the same isn't true for glitch capture. I wholly disagreeAlso I never suggested high update rates are more important than bandwidth, I grouped bandwidth and sample rate as inter related, and grouped update rate and sample depth as interrelated, so I don't know why you are discussing bandwidth as if I said bandwidth is less important than high update rates.

author: maiakaat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 02, 2013, 09:53:50 am
content: QuoteAgain I wholly disagree, the Agilent MSO2000X is clearly superior to the Rigol DS1102E, and most of the cheaper Chinese entry level scopes, this isn't Agilent spin, offer a choice of the two scopes and I'm fairly sure what the outcome would be for most people.QuoteThis is a specific warning against headline figures for cheaper entry level Chinese scopes, not disapproval of older scopes, I clearly say where it isn't listed trust scopes with a good brand reputation, this includes Rigol, and to some extent Tektronix and a few others.QuoteI read an Agilent doc or two from a few years back, it was very helpful, I guess you have to be smart and see through the spin.