Do you own a LeCroy WaveRunner Xi scope? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 04:23:59 am
content: I just bought a used one from LeCroy and may need some advice.Richard

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 05:01:46 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 18, 2016, 04:23:59 amWell, it would be helpful if you told us what exactly it is you wanna knowBTW: I had a WR64Xi until more recently when I sold it to someone who has been begging me for a while to do so. It's a fantastic scope, and was the first scope to reach over 1M waveforms/s (long before any Agilent/Keysight scope could do that), but since LeCroy only put a lowly Celeron into that scope it needs a CPU upgrade to really fly. ALso, some older units (2005/2006) have build quality issues (heat-related connector problems making channels fail, protective foil of the touch screen delaminating) which have subsequently been fixed by LeCroy (if you bought it from LeCroy then your unit should be fine).I've written quite a bit about the WRXi in other threads, the search function should help to find it.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 05:12:00 am
content: Just testing the water...However, this scope, which I will pick up tomorrow, reportedly works OK on all four channels, but has a recurrent Windows XP error message that says there is a corrupt or missing "<window root>/system32/hal.dll" file.I did some research on this and it is not an uncommon problem. LeCroy replaced the hard disk, but the error came back.I can try to replace just that .dll, I guess.The scope can be upgraded to Windows 7 at a cost of about $900 at LeCroy. They say they have to do the OS installation for some reason, though the user can update the firmware on their own. I notice from the pictures of the screen they sent that the firmware is out of date.I could just live with the fault, but wouldn't mind figuring out how to solve it.I will know more when I have tried it out.Richard

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 05:40:24 am
content: QuoteI have the 64Xi.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/teledyne-lecroy-waverunner-64xi/

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 06:46:05 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 18, 2016, 05:12:00 amI can tell you right now that this isn't a common problem, and if the scope is showing this then it's a sign of a hardware problem, which could be:- Hard disk defective/corrupted (but you said it had been replaced)- Defective hard disk cable (44pin flat ribbon)- RAM defect- Mainboard defectOverwriting files isn't likely to fix the problem, you'd have to do some fault finding first to get to the root cause of this.QuoteOk, wait a minute. What scope do you have exactly?Because there's the WaveRunner Xiand the WaveRunner Xi-AThese are two different scopes!The WaveRunner Xi is a 32bit platform and can *not* be upgraded to Windows 7. The WaveRunner Xi-A (WRXi-A) is a 64bit platform and can be upgraded to Windows 7.So which scope do you have?Also, Where *exactly* have you or are you going to buy the scope from? Somehow I doubt that LeCroy would sell you a scope with a hardware problem. All their refurbished scopes undergo testing, get updated with the latest firmware, and come with some form of warranty. So if you bought from them you just sent the scope back so they can fix it for good.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 07:59:25 pm
content: +1 on the faulty hard drive, could be RAM but I'd go for the hard disk first.Just curiosity on my part as I'm not even in the market for a scope of that calibre but is the 32bit version still a Wintel based machine only I'm curious why it's not Win 7 capable?

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 08:02:26 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on August 18, 2016, 07:59:25 pmAll LeCroy Windows scopes are "Wintel", it's what their architecture is based on (compared to proprietary ASICs in other manufacturers' scopes).The WRXi uses a Pentium-M platform which is 32bit. Of course Windows 7 (32bit) runs on a Pentium-M but the 32bit X-Stream software is only supported under XP and doesn't recognize the scope platform when running under other 32bit Windows variants.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2016, 09:10:46 pm
content: I have the WaveRunner Xi-A version with the black front panel. It is a 400 MHz scope. LeCroy was selling it on eBay "as is" and for parts because they said it was showing a software error. They apparently replaced the HDD several times, but the error kept (intermittently) coming back. I got it quite cheaply. So far, I have not seen the error message.Richard

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 01:03:42 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 18, 2016, 09:10:46 pmAssuming that the scope hangs when the fault occurs, have the scope do a reboot loop with a startup .cmd script using the shutdown command. For syntax and usage, at the command prompt, type shutdown/? Jay

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 05:20:58 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 18, 2016, 09:10:46 pmAs I said, I have a hard time believing that a manufacturer sells a scope (which they could sell in refurbished condition for still quite a lot of money) "as-is", especially when it's a software error.QuoteWhat you can do, in addition to what Jwalling said, is to find out the hard disk model/manufacturer (Device Manager) and run the disk manufacturer's diagnostic tools to find out if the hard disk (or its interface) has any issues. Also, I'd run a long-term (24hrs) memtest to check out the memory (although even if it passes there might still be a RAM problem).Also, whatever you do, make sure you backup the factory calibration data which is in the hidden folder \calibration on the 2nd partition (D:). You don't want to lose them at any cost.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 19, 2016, 11:58:34 pm
content: JayCould you say more about the reboot procedure you mentioned? I am not familiar with how to do this.I will ask LeCroy about whether the error hangs up the startup. I got the impression not, but don't know.Richard

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 12:11:35 am
content: By the way, here is the eBay sale number for this scope: 162165185363

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 12:41:33 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 12:11:35 amDo you have a direct link to the auction? Ebay doesn't show me anything with that number, and a search for completed auction didn't come up with a WR44Xi-A.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 12:56:56 am
content: http://www.ebay.com/itm/162165185363?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITHere it is.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 09:46:55 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 19, 2016, 11:58:34 pmSure.Syntax:Code:C:\Documents and Settings\User>shutdown/?Usage: shutdown [-i | -l | -s | -r | -a] [-f] [-m \\computername] [-t xx] [-c "comment"] [-d up:xx:yy]No args Display this message (same as -?)-i Display GUI interface, must be the first option-l Log off (cannot be used with -m option)-s Shutdown the computer-r Shutdown and restart the computer-a Abort a system shutdown-m \\computername Remote computer to shutdown/restart/abort-t xx Set timeout for shutdown to xx seconds-c "comment" Shutdown comment (maximum of 127 characters)-f Forces running applications to close without warning-d :xx:yy The reason code for the shutdownu is the user codep is a planned shutdown codexx is the major reason code (positive integer less than 256)yy is the minor reason code (positive integer less than 65536)1. Create a file called shutdownloop.cmd.2. Using a text editor such as notepad, put the following into it:shutdown.exe -r -f -t 303. Save the file, and put it into the   folder.4. Execute the shutdownloop.cmd and you're off to the races.I'm pretty sure that if the HAL.DLL file is missing or corrupted, it will hang the scope.More info:https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/945380Jay

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 03:25:45 pm
content: JayThanks for the details and the web page references. I really appreciate it!If the scope hangs, how and when do I execute the shutdown loop command?I will make a backup of the calibration file.I wonder why they did not install Windows 7 and the latest firmware?Any idea why they have to do the Windows 7 upgrade (and not the owner)?Richard

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 06:44:34 pm
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 03:25:45 pmYou execute the script when the scope is running, not when it hangs! The script will test for the hang condition. It will keep re-booting the scope until it hangs, if it ever does.It does a reasonably orderly shutdown, not like yanking the power cord. If an application refuses to close, it will try to force a closing.Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 03:25:45 pmProbably a good idea to back up the entire drive, actually... Even better is to backup the drive, restore the image to a new drive, and do the testing with the new drive. Hard drives are cheap!Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 03:25:45 pmTime is money. Pretty simple, really.Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 03:25:45 pmWindows XP and Win7 drivers are pretty much not interchangeable, unless forced in. Especially if the Win7 O/S is 64 bit.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 07:48:14 pm
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 12:56:56 amJust look at the feedback: this isn't an official Lecroy store!

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 08:04:01 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on August 20, 2016, 07:48:14 pmYou're right, the official LeCroy ebay store is "Teledyne LeCroy Certified Pre-Owned":http://stores.ebay.com/Teledyne-LeCroy-Certified-Pre-owned?_trksid=p2047675.l2563My guess is that this "lecroyfinds" seller is some other business (located not far from LeCroy) which seems to engage in buying and selling industrial gear. Look at this:http://windcompressorpumps.com/2016/04/05/emglo-model-w-air-compressor-pump-parts-200psi-3hp-590rpm-max-rpm-1040/"The seller is “lecroyfinds” and is located in Spring Valley, New York."I doubt LeCroy would sell Emglo air compressors via their official ebay storeConsidering that they seem to try to create the impression that they''re a legit representation of LeCroy this seems to be a pretty shady outfit.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 08:37:56 pm
content: The lecroyfinds eBay store says at the top that "We are the Teledyne LeCroy Factory."I don't see any air compressors.Richard

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 08:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 08:37:56 pmI see that."We are the Teledyne LeCroy Factory. Discover Great Deals on Test and Measurement Equipment and Electronic Components. "They've been an Ebay member since 2001.They also sell other brand gear, such as:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Keithley-705-Scanners-/152037511655?hash=item23662451e7:g:qUYAAOSwgApW~r4landhttp://www.ebay.com/sch/Oscilloscopes-Vectorscopes/104247/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=&_ssn=lecroyfinds&_sac=1(yuck, Rigol) and some Tek.Have a look at your paypal purchase info, and see if you can extract some more info.I bought a Tek TDS7104 from them back in 2015 and repaired and re-sold it for $1K profit. If you can't find it, I'll dig up more information on who they are.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 09:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 08:37:56 pmYes, and the seller states to be located in Springs Valley, NY, which is where LeCroy is located.But there are a few things which don't make sense. For example, why the manufacturer should sell a scope that in working condition still sells for a lot of money as defective for a very low price. Even more strange is that the manufacturer apparently couldn't find the source of a software failure. I mean, seriously?Then as nctnico said, look at the feedback:http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=lecroyfinds&ftab=AllFeedback- VICI Valco E2CA 24V 2.5A Two-Position Actuator Control- Lenovo ThinkPad T510 15.6" (3.8GB Intel Core i5 2.4GHz 320GB ) Notebook 43147NU- Lot of 5 TDK Lambda PFE500F-48 AC-DC Power Module 10.5A 48V- AEMC Instruments Decade Resistance Box Model BR07- Dozens of Micron 128GB SATA III SSDs- NEC Multimedia LCD Projector Model NP510- HP 54645A Mega Zoom 100MHZ 200 MSa/s Oscilloscope- ATTEN ADS2102CA 100MHz Digital Oscilloscope (you really believe LeCroy would purchase or trade in a crappy Atten scope???)- Tektronix TDS784A 4-Channel Digitizing Oscilloscope 1GHz, 4GS/s- HP Agilent 54845A Infiniium Digital 4-Channel 1.5GHz 8GSa/s OscilloscopeThat's the profile of hardware trader, not of the factory outlet of a major manufacturer of test equipment.QuoteYou would, had you read what's in the link I posted.

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 09:05:12 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on August 20, 2016, 08:04:01 pmNot an Ebay link, so I took a look and found this:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emglo-Model-W-Air-Compressor-Pump-Parts-200PSI-3HP-590RPM-Max-RPM-1040-/152043076131?hash=item2366793a23:g:Dl8AAOSwGYVXA9RlMight as well add a picture for posterity as that link will expire.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 09:25:13 pm
content: Thanks for pointing out the air compressor. I did look at the link you provided, but did not see a "lecroyfinds" reference on those web pages.I did note earlier that lecroyfinds sells other equipment. Searching in their eBay store, there is no listing for an air compressor, though lecroyfinds appears to be the seller in the eBay link.What do you make of the heading on their eBay store page that says, "We are the Teledyne LeCroy Factory"?Maybe there are two stores. One for only LeCroy and the other more general industrial sales.Richard

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 09:55:41 pm
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 20, 2016, 09:25:13 pmMy guess at this point: One for their premium used/tested and fully warrantied gear, and one for whatever else doesn't make the cut. Probably in the same building and separated by a curtain.Tektronix also has a second-rate Ebay store in Beaverton, OR. They go by the ID chipxshttp://www.ebay.com/sch/chipxs/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=And if anybody doubts me, I have the PayPal receipts with email addresses from them that prove it.They blocked me from buying their equipment last year when they sold me a Tek TDS694C that was listed as tested and fully functional, but had the notorious trigger failure on CH3 and CH4. I insisted that they pay the return shipping, as that is the eBay policy for defective equipment now (and then). After they refunded me, they blocked me, even though I was a repeat customer with no previous issues and had spent about $6K before that incident.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 20, 2016, 11:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Jwalling on August 20, 2016, 09:55:41 pmYes but chipsx does not claim affiliation with Tektronix and sells predominantly Tek and Fluke (i.e. Danaher) gear, not industrial gear like air compressors.Manufacturers generally don't like to see their name associated with stuff that has failed.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:07:34 am
content: OK, but it does say it is a LeCroy factory web site.I will see if I can find out more on Monday. At any rate, it seems legitimate.Also, thanks to you all for all the discussion. It helps me understand the vendor better.The scope lacks a knob, so I guess I will go to the LeCroy main site for that.What I need to do now is to back up the hard disk and take steps to recover from the error message, should it re-occur.Richard

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 01:22:59 am
content: It is bizarre to see a manufacturer selling broken gear, makes it pretty hard to take them seriously as a test equipment supplier.

author: CustomEngineerer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 02:35:11 am
content: Checking the id history of lecroyfinds and teledyne-lecroy-certified accounts seems to make it even more confusing.lecroyfinds has changed ids several times, most recently on Apr-17-2015 from teledyne-lecroy to lecroyfinds.teledyne-lecroy-certfied changed from resle.and to teledyne-lecroy-certified also on Apr-17-2015.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 03:03:49 am
content: Just be aware that the hal.dll (Hardware Abstraction Layer) error more than lightly hardware related rather than software.

author: RCHRDM
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 05:05:58 am
content: Yes, I suspect that. I need to figure out a recovery technique if the fault re-appears.Richard

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 10:50:44 am
content: Quote from: Jwalling on August 20, 2016, 08:56:30 pmMy PayPal receipt. Note that they are using the domain lecroy.com for email.QuoteItem:http://www.watchcount.com/?cc=US&uqsrc=plbm&uqkw=151681491498&uqcat=#serp

author: Jwalling
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:19:09 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 21, 2016, 05:05:58 amThe time for that is now,beforeit craps out. I use Acronis which works well for me. It's easy to use and finds network attached computers to save the image to. A few adjustments to the hosts firewall, and a network drive share and you're good to go.EDIT: It's even on sale now for $30. Pretty short money given how much you spent on the scope.http://www.acronis.com/en-us/promotion/personal/SEM/?optimizely_x6772291750=2&optimizely_force_tracking=trueJay

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:32:34 am
content: Quote from: RCHRDM on August 21, 2016, 05:05:58 amNo, what you should do is find the problem and fix it. As Towger and I said, this is highly likely to be a hardware problem, and that doesn't get away by re-installing hal.dll. It could well get worse (i.e. the component that is causing this could fail completely and depending on what it is this could well cause a lot more damage to the scope).

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 21, 2016, 11:37:39 am
content: Quote from: Jwalling on August 21, 2016, 10:50:44 amInteresting:https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-bogatin-368860Starting July 2011I am pleased to report that Bogatin Enterprises was recently acquired by LeCroy Corp. It is our intent to continue the great classes our customers have come to know and love and continue with our high value publications. Many of these are now available for download from our web site,www.beTheSignal.com. Learn more about these exciting changes by visiting our web site.So they are now part of LeCroy (it seems they are providing training).