Yet 3 months and we are in 2020 - Wich scope to get? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Free_WiFi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 12:31:09 am
content: I'm saving cashe's for my future buy of an Digital Oscilloscope.Since we are near to the end of this year,i wish to ask your opinion about what to look in the future for an scope.Basically without too much water...i need an scope whichwill allow me to freely or pretty freely work with RF,Digital signals,Power electronics.I'm looking at R&S's,because an scope is not like a smartphone for one year,so i will keep it for a very long time.If you have some better idea about the brand of device to get,then please share your opinions with me.P.S : The budget i can spend is circa € 2000 or 2500.Thanks.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 12:35:40 am
content: Seems like you already noticed that R&S are the best. Be sure to get plenty of options and you'll be happy.

author: DaJMasta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 04:12:28 am
content: Pretty vague specifics....What kind of bandwidth? Do you need HF band stuff or do you need WiFi band digitization (no R&S in your budget will get 2.5GHz bandwidth, of course) Do you want internal 50 ohm termination?Digital signals? Is that MSO with LA channels or would protocol decoding on the main channels suffice?Power electronics? Is isolation important? What sort of voltages are you working with? Do you need specific current/differential probes that may narrow the scopes you're considering?As a general ballpark, the R&S RTB2000 series is a nice unit with a lot of features, but it may or may not actually give you the features you're looking for. They're certainly not the only scopes in the market and you can certainly find other scopes with comparable value at that pricepoint.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 07:26:24 am
content: Quote from: Free_WiFi on September 19, 2019, 04:54:35 amYou still have not told us what frequency range you are thinking of. "RF" covers several orders of magnitude. Are we talking GHz or shortwave (up to 30 MHz)?

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 05:44:56 pm
content: Take a look at GW INSTEK MDO-2204EG.......

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2019, 08:44:25 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 19, 2019, 05:44:56 pmNo. Get the GDS-2204E or MSO-2204E and hack them with a simple keygen to get the MDO function (see GDS1054B thread to find the key generator). The MDO2000E series is not worth the money for just a slightly nicer spectrum analysis feature. IMHO GW Instek should never have created the MDO2000 series but just add the feature to the existing oscilloscopes.

author: Free_WiFi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 09:44:39 pm
content: Ok,so i wish to make an re-defining for my topic,because i make an mistake by giving you poors specification from the beginning of this thread.The first thing is that i wish only R&S Scope ...I'm thinking for 100 Mhz or 200Mhz of bandwidth;50 ohm termination;No LA,because it's not really hard to find something of cheap and portable to use via usb to pc;I will not work always on High Voltages;I need very nice FFT features.Since i can't afford 2 things at 1 time,i need an scope to compensate the lack of not having an Spectrum Analizer,so basically this is my situation described in some words.

author: Martin72
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 09:52:36 pm
content: Quote from: Free_WiFi on September 19, 2019, 12:31:09 amA rigol MSO5 could fulfill your needs, it got optional power analyzer function, waste amount of memory depth, waste amount of samplings per second.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 09:54:34 pm
content: Quote from: Free_WiFi on September 20, 2019, 09:44:39 pmThe RTB2000 series seems to be the only candidate in your price bracket then.QuoteI am sure you can check the feature lists of the various RTB2000 models, and assume you have done so.So what exactly is your question?!

author: Free_WiFi
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 10:00:01 pm
content: Quote from: ebastler on September 20, 2019, 09:54:34 pmThe pain is hidden inside the question about the rf capabilitiesI'm not denying to be wrong by thinking only about R&S brand,so i'm here for this reason,to understand if i'm making the right way on R&S not only for the scope features,but also for the rf capabilities....

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 10:29:15 pm
content: Quote from: Free_WiFi on September 20, 2019, 10:00:01 pmBoth recent GW Instek and Siglent copes have very nice FFT up to 1MPts and have a special spectrum analyser-ish FFT mode. The RTB2004 only has 130kpts FFT so less resolution. However even the RTB2004 doesn't have 50 Ohm termination but the user interface on the RTB2004 is much more polished. Then there is the question between 8 bit and 10 bit which is where the RTB2004 wins. However a spectrum analyser doesn't have to be expensive. The Siglent spectrum analysers start at around 1250 euro (ex VAT) and they are certainly not bad. Recently I played with one so I have some hands-on experience. I know R&S is famous for RF equipment but even R&S can't magically turn a scope into a full fledged spectrum analyser. For starters the dynamic range just isn't there (even with a 10 bit ADC).The bottom line is: if you have up to 2500 euro to spend you can certainly buy a decent scope and a spectrum analyser (but not from R&S).

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 11:09:41 pm
content: If you only want R&S and NEED real 50 OHm termination in the scope, then you have to buy RTM3000 or better.It also have something that resembles SA. But that is 2-3 X your budgetBut you are going about this in a wrong way.If you need RF, you buy SPECTRUM ANALYSER and a simpler scope.For 2500 € you can get Siglent SVA1015X (and get VNA and SA ) and SDS1104X-E or MSO5000 at the same time.Or get Siglent SSA3021X Spectrum Analyzer and one the mentioned scopes..Both combinations will give you 10x better capabillites for RF that even 12000€ RTM3000 with 1GHz bandwidth..

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 20, 2019, 11:11:22 pm
content: LOL Nico wrote the same thing while I was posting..

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2019, 02:22:10 pm
content: Quote from: 2N3055 on September 20, 2019, 11:09:41 pmI'm a bit torn between advising getting the spectrum analyser or the VNA. Both are different beasts. While a VNA can be used as a spectrum analyser it is not as good at spectrum analysis compared to a spectrum analyser. A VNA is great if you are into circuit design because it can tell you (by showing the impedances and phase shift) how to fix an RF circuit where a spectrum analyser can only show you something isn't right. OTOH a spectrum analyser allows to dive deep into the frequency spectrum of a signal.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2019, 03:03:35 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on September 21, 2019, 02:22:10 pmNico,that is why I mentioned both. I did try SVA1015X a bit, and it is not great SA, but it is OK. But 1.5GHz VNA is useful.Like always it really depends what you do. If you do testing of ready made equipment, SA is important. If you're making things, characterising components, cables, connectors... VNA is very important.Ideally you need both. And I can tell you that even entry level VNA is very useful.It is like comparison between simple handheld meter and a benchtop 6.5 digit one. There is no question which is better and sometimes you just need all that accuracy.But even a small handheld will be better than putting a finger on a battery to try to estimate state of charge...