The Ultimate "Fuse" Con - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Mr Smiley
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:25:52 pm
content: Hi,Here's one to get Dave goinghttp://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150695403285&ss

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:35:35 pm
content: Nice price, fancy box, gold plated, black label, ooooooh AudioPhoolery time.......

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:37:57 pm
content: Teardown time!Why the diode and cap on the fuse I don't know. I mean, who'd believe fuses are directional? Only an idiot, right? Right...?Oh.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:43:26 pm
content: WOW cool, I just bought 10. Will they work on my torch?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:47:55 pm
content: Quote from: digsys on August 09, 2012, 12:43:26 pmYup, you will definitely "feel" the difference, the light came out from your torch will have "purer" light and more pleasing to human eyes.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 12:53:52 pm
content: Also, the torch will sound more 3D.

author: Short Circuit
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:02:30 pm
content: If they were to make 3/8" versions of these, it would really be the end of uCurrent.Finally we could upgrade our DMM's ro measure sparkling microamps in the 10A range with virtually zero burden voltageNot sure about the fance box it comes in. I'm affraid you'd need to keep it closeby for the magic to happen,preferably in sight. Ok for hifi, but that would not be very praktical for DMM use. Pity.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 01:12:30 pm
content: But not as bad as this:-http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina41.htm

author: GeoffS
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 02:18:15 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 09, 2012, 01:12:30 pmYou'd think at that price, they would at least include free shipping...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 02:31:41 pm
content: I'd like it delivered in person by the chief product engineer himself, wrapped in the finest gold silk money can buy...The explanation is hilarious, but then you realise, some people actually BUY these things.http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina42.htm

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 02:52:29 pm
content: QuotePleasetell me that's a piss-take.

author: Kibi
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 03:52:04 pm
content: You can buy extended warranty for this fuse too, just $8.49

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2012, 05:00:40 pm
content: You're not telling me you chumps all use _stock_ fuses are you?I be you don't even polarize the tachyon beam.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 04:58:22 am
content: Fark, they actually sold one!Dave.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 05:50:01 am
content: The breast pump could have used one of these little puppies.

author: Isaac-1
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:00:56 am
content: This reminds me of my Fluke 1507 insulation meter, where Fluke gets about $15 each for the odd size fuse, and Amprobe sells the exact same brand and part number fuse (SIBA, FF315 DMI 1000V ) at 5 for $12.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:05:39 am
content: And the same seller has these puppies!http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shakti-On-lines-Electromagnetic-Stabilizer-NEW-/160858399845?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item2573e86465#ht_2596wt_1139Dave.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:11:21 am
content: Do you think they actually used those special materials and some kind of cryo bullshit to make that fuse?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:13:40 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on August 10, 2012, 06:11:21 amIn general, I think that most of these companies manufacture it how they claim.Most of them do actually believe this stuff, and that what they are peddling actually makes a difference as they claim.They are of course delusional.Dave.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:15:06 am
content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_treatmentwiki seems like its a somewhat real process.Do any real electronics use cryogenic treatment? I am not saying audio stuff but some kind of high end nasa/icbm/100 grand scientific equipment stuff....AdvantagesComparison of cryorolling and rolling at room temperature:In Cryorolling, the strain hardening is retained up to the extent to which rolling is carried out. This implies that there will be no dislocation annihilation and dynamic recovery. Whereas in rolling at room temperature, dynamic recovery is inevitable and softening takes place.The flow stress of the material differs for the sample which is subjected to cryorolling. A cryorolled sample has a higher flow stress compared to a sample subjected to rolling at room temperature.Cross slip and climb of dislocations are effectively suppressed during cryorolling leading to high dislocation density which is not the case for room temperature rolling.The corrosion resistance of the cryorolled sample comparatively decreases due to the high residual stress involved.The number of electron scattering centres increases for the cryorolled sample and hence the electrical conductivity decreases significantly.The cryorolled sample shows a high dissolution rate.Ultra-fine-grained structures can be produced from cryorolled samples after subsequent annealing.I did not pay enough attention in semiconductor physics to know if "electron scattering center" is a real phenomena*and I don't mean actively submerging stuff in LN during its operation but doing some kind of cryogenic "treatment" on the wire.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:06:39 pm
content: It reminded me of some gold plated optical fiber I saw herehttp://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/31187970/840157275/Cables-4-ALL-Premium-Gold-2m-Digital-Optical-Audio-Cable/ListingDetails.html?_$ja=tsid%3a11518|cat%3a31187970|prd%3a31187970Neil

author: Wartex
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 06:17:15 pm
content: Quote from: AntiProtonBoy on August 10, 2012, 05:50:01 amDave hacked it into a penis pump.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 07:12:21 pm
content: Quote from: Neilm on August 10, 2012, 06:06:39 pmTell me this isn't real ... well at least it doesn't cost 500 bucks neither is it cryogenically treated

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 09:31:51 pm
content: QuoteThis seems self-evident, it's easy to check that a claim such as "the fuse is made from 95% silver/5% gold wire" is true and there is trading standards legislation in most of the world which can be brought to bear if it turns out the wire is made from highly polished brass.QuoteI find this a harder pill to swallow. At least not if the people behind the product are conventionally sane. None of these things produce an objective (i.e measurable with test equipment) or even reliably subjective (i.e reproducible in double blind trials) difference - if there's a decent engineer anywhere near the design and manufacture of these items the lack of tangible benefit must be obvious. At the very least there's a deliberate avoidance of reliable comparison techniques in favour of flowery language in descriptions.Admittedly audio is a minefield of perceptions, psychology and personal taste. Even when you can measure things it's often the case that a signal degradation actually "improves" the perceived sound. The right type of distortion sounds "nicer" and more "musical", the right amount of echo and reverb sounds "fuller" etc etc - there's no wonder there's room for dubious claims.QuoteMore, or less, than the people who buy it?I must admit though that I can sort-of see a logic to the gold plated fuse. At least it is one end of a continuum that starts with something plausible and generally acceptable (gold plating for low voltage signal contacts), goes a little OTT - "if gold plating the input connectors improves that 0.1mV phono signal then itmustimprove that 50V speaker signal", then AWOL - "if gold plating the audio connectors helps then we must do iteverywhere", then finally landing at the slightly bizarre "if we have a gold plated mains plug, itmustneed a gold plated fuse".

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 09:51:58 pm
content: Well my car usually runs better after it has been washed and valeted, so I'm sure a hi-fi system can sound better after it has been treated to special mains cables and fuses. Who can argue with psychology?

author: HardBoot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 10:01:15 pm
content: Your audio must sound great when you get rid of the nasty negative half of sound waves.Someone should ask the bugger why there's a diode and cap symbol on the fuse.

author: member_xyz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 10, 2012, 10:27:18 pm
content: http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htmLot more on the home page.

author: AntiProtonBoy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 12:39:44 am
content: Quote from: member_xyz on August 10, 2012, 10:27:18 pmFrom the website:Quote

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 08:18:22 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on August 10, 2012, 06:15:06 amIf you deformed most metals at cryogenic temperatures it would just shatter, the same goes for most other materials, at school we used to dip rubber sheet into a mixture of dry ice and acetone that made the rubber cold enough so that when hit or bent it would shatter like a pane of glass. Is that wiki entry done by one of these nut's.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 08:22:34 am
content: Quote from: member_xyz on August 10, 2012, 10:27:18 pmLooking at all their products, one really has to wonder whether they truly believe that this stuff works, or are running a really clever scam reselling common items at absurd prices.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 08:59:52 am
content: http://machinadynamica.com/machina62.htm

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 09:15:59 am
content: QuoteLooking at their products the only conclusion I can come to is that it's all a gigantic piss-take.Or else they subscribe to the theory that an (audio)fool and his money will soon be parted and they're the ones that are going to do the parting.

author: FenderBender
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 12:46:39 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on August 11, 2012, 08:59:52 amOh my....This website is hilarious.These are the effects of placing a quarter sized silver disc next to the spinning CD in a CD player...Quote

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 12:54:55 pm
content: Quote from: FenderBender on August 11, 2012, 12:46:39 pmThat's not the only product like that though - there are things such as this, a CD demagnetiser:http://www.bedini.com/clarifier.htmAnd this site is similar, though it looks far more serious...http://www.goldensound.com/productlist/next-generation-audio-accessories... I am losing hope in humanity.

author: minime72706
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 02:24:01 pm
content: Holy shit I really wish I had not looked at the list of recent posts to find this thread. This kind of thing drives me MAD and this fuse, though not $500, is one of the worst things I've seen...AND SOMEONE BOUGHT ONE!My psyche is just too fragile to handle the truth that people are stupid enough to believe in this crap.BRBtherapist.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 05:42:51 pm
content: I once made some essential oil distillation equipment for a company that went in for this sort of madness. I cant quite recall what the name was but it was along the lines of Pharma sutra. While setting the equipment up and giving it a trial run the owner of the business came round and told every one not to turn the power on in the ware house as he turned it of in order to energize the product, which was shampoo and soaps and other cosmetics. When I asked some one else what he meant I was informed that the process involved him going into the ware house and chanting while waving a crystal around on the end of a chain, the power had to be off as this would interfere with the energizing. I did not laugh out loud then and there as I wanted to collect my payment for the equipment and hopefully sell more to him and other such nut cases that he may know, but he and others within the firm really believed in the power of these crystals.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 06:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on August 11, 2012, 08:18:22 amWould thicker metals shatter too? Like a 1 inch thick steel plate?I've heard of a cryo-process being used in knife steel , I do believe that one resulted some some detectable difference in grain structure or w/e but I don't know much about metalurgy and neither do I remember this process. Does anyone else have any thoughts?

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2012, 06:35:15 pm
content: I have seen freeze drying used to make powdered fruit, and have seen liquid nitrogen used to allow assembly of mechanical parts ( axle stubs into the wheel casting of aircraft) with no deformation. I do know ultra fast cooling from red heat does make steel harder than plain quenching, as it freezes the grain structure before it has time to change structure.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2012, 02:05:03 pm
content: This is why I don't post on hi-fi forums any more. Not only is there a lot of nonsense out there, it's fiercely defended nonsense.I once made myself quite unpopular in a discussion about jitter on digital outputs, by actually measuring it with a scope and posting the results including screen shots. Cold, hard facts don't seem to go down too well when fluff and speculation are available.A few years ago I did build myself a DAC using nothing more than good science, proper layout technique and high quality components. Oddly enough, it sounds great - but maybe it would be better still with a silver & gold fuse connecting it to my house wiring (which, for an self-confessed audiophile I'm ashamed to admit, is only copper)?

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2012, 03:28:36 pm
content: There are even worse things in the audiophile world:http://www.higherfi.com/spkrlist/speakerlist.htmCables, naturally, not included

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2012, 03:51:47 pm
content: WTF is that shit, againAUDIOPHOOLERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 18, 2012, 11:52:49 pm
content: It's psychology. You really can't discount it because to those of this mindset things like shakti stones and tice clocks really do make a difference - to them. All perception is... perspective. It's subjective. Why do people ring temple bells? Why do people believe in talking snakes or engrams? It provides them something they subjectively desire.Google Harvey Rosenberg. He's a legendary writer from the annals of audiophiledom. Known as "Gizmo" he never dared take things too seriously, yet was always able to engage in a way that wasn't demeaning or condescending. Read some of his stuff and you'll come to understand this "audiophoolery" much better.http://www.meta-gizmo.net/intro/ECSTACYBOOK.html