Segger programmer prices - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:36:55 am
content: I just went to a get second J-Link Compact for our production department, and found that they now want almost £440 for their J-Link Compact!https://uk.farnell.com/segger/8-19-00-j-link-base-compact/debug-probe-1mbps/dp/3106581I had a look and when we purchased one in 2021 we paid 298 EUR + VAT... currency rates vary but that was around £260 back then.It's a small microcontroller running custom firmware, and some level shifters... £260+ is already too much but to almost double prices in 2 years just seems like gouging.Well, time to find some alternative.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:51:58 am
content: Let us know what you find... I'll be looking for a SWD programmer pretty soon.Is that a production programmer, by the way?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 09:03:20 am
content: It's been used in both production and engineering for a few low volume items, but as we're increasing production of something we need to get a few more. This is the only programmerrecommendedfor the device we use, but I'll experiment with a few alternatives to see if they work.

author: darkspr1te
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 10:16:58 am
content: Heres some good alternatives that provide jtag /swd that should work well in dev and productionn.b some require shells for protection in harsh environments.1. Bus blaster by dangerous prototypes (change-able front end to emulate j-link, kt-link, jtagkey , ftdi pid/vid can be changed to match these devices) - recommend for devs - massive software support- massive target support2. Black magic probe (embedded debug probe for openocd, may not work with chip makers flashing tools unless it has a open source version, does provide real time gdb server)3. ST-link v2 with Jlink emulation firmware (quite good and works with official tools including gdb) official ones are cheap and come with probes/shell - downside is it's a diy/opensource software solution- might have bugs - hardware is solid though - avoid the stlink clones as they have reduce BOM and target support is flaky - avoid stlink mini/v3 as this solution is not compatible,4. JB OB LInk JLink compatible probe from micro robotics - upside is support from manufacturerHowever none of these tools support the pro features of being able to store firmware for production/assembly/testing floor and not requiring a computer.There is firmware out there for the raspberry pi pico that has sdcard support for repeat flashing but it is a diy project so no off the shelf product.Another alternative is the raspberry pi (buying one is like rocking horse sh1t atm) , using the correct scripts you could have it flash as soon as it detects the target device, can provide wireless gdb fordev environments, handy for remote debug and design. Provides the most flexible target support but is limited to 3.3v without the JTAGHat from blinkin micros, this gives level shifting support and more, shells can be purchased cheap from many suppliers including 3d print factories and metal based casings. upside to this solution is wireless support for both gdb but you can pull the flash files from a offsite ftp/http server putting firmware version control in the hands of the devs or a moderator/testing dept, scripts and firmware files can be swapped on the fly using external inputs/buttons - feedback via simple lcd's or hdmi screens with touch control for lets say bed of nails testing (first it installs debug firmware, when passed test it's reflashed with production firmware and tested again or you might want to run a batch of say 10 debug units for sending back to testers )all of this assume your willing to hunt for the correct cables as many of these solutions dont always provide the correct jtag lay out that you may be used too.Again you also may be wanting a "just off the shelf known solution" and not a possible headache with open source diy projects.How ever a savvy design using tc-2050 IDC in pcb jtag/swd interface and when you order the cable you set the pinout to your chosen interface e.g xylinx jtag/bus blaster compatibel, JTAGHat etc and they will ship you that. Some are already pre-existing e.g Segger jlink to tc-2050 IDCHowever this is not a issue if you already have your own jtag layout requirements (security, safety , IP protection or whatever) and have a custom cable to board interconnect but making sure everybody has the right one matching the right programmer might be a headache.darkspr1te

author: switchabl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 03:18:39 pm
content: Maybe you are comparing different models? I don't think you could ever buy their production programmers for 298 €, that must have been a basic debug probe. Prices seem to be up a bit but nothing close to double (at least in €).Depending on the device you are targeting, there may be other alternatives (like Elprotronic) but they aren't necessarily a lot cheaper. I also think that arguing about BOM cost makes little sense in this context. IMHO you are paying mostly for the firmware/software (and the fact that it is fast and actually works).

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 03:59:51 pm
content: It's the same part... I have a copy of the invoice with the same Farnell part number on it. Maybe a special offer?Yes, I understand there are NREs and so they need to charge more than BOM, but I do think they may be exploiting a unique market position here. At the end of the day, it is a capitalist system and their right to do so. I also have the right to find an alternative and not pay so much for their programmer, though.

author: redkitedesign
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 04:30:38 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on April 06, 2023, 08:36:55 amI'm pretty sure you can find an alternative for 40 bucks. However, Segger probably estimated it would cost your boss more than 400 bucks in time spend.The value isn't in the parts or the NRE. The value is in the works without further effort.Of course, if you start out with an BMP or Bus Pirate from the start of developement, you'll never want to buy another segger for production ;-)

author: mwb1100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 05:04:34 pm
content: Segger's devices have definitely seen more than one increase over the past few years. I guessed it was probably pandemic driven and especially STMicro shortage driven (I believe all the J-Links use STM32 microcontrollers).That said, you are definitely mainly paying for the software/firmware and support (which is good).I don't know much about the open source/openocd jtag devices.If your target device is an STM32, it's hard to beat the value of the ST-LINK. They work great and are cheap. I don't know if this is still the case, but their availability during the past few years has been unpredictable (I guess STMicro itself was impacted by STM32 shortages).

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 08:13:37 pm
content: There are tons of JTAG and SWD adapters out there these days at all kinds of prices including pretty cheap.Some isolated, some not, some with level shifters, some not. Pick the one that fits your requirements.I guess the interesting part with Segger tools is not the hardware really, it's the software. That's the problem.If you can invest some time figuring out OpenOCD, it will allow you to pretty much do anything you need with a large range of targets and adapters supported. But there's a learning curve.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 10:06:40 pm
content: Interesting, they discontinued the EDU in favor of the EDU mini.https://shop-us.segger.com/product/j-link-edu-mini-8-08-91/$448 USD on their site, which is 360GBP:https://shop-us.segger.com/product/j-link-base-compact-8-19-00/This place claims to have them but may just be a website error:https://www.netroflash.com/search.html?mfgPartNo=8.19.00%20J-LINK%20BASE%20COMPACT&utm_source=octopart

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 06, 2023, 10:56:09 pm
content: It seemed to go up by 100 EUR after 2021:https://web.archive.org/web/20210418202316/https://shop.segger.com/debug-trace-probes/debug-probes/j-link/j-link-base-compacthttps://web.archive.org/web/20220819044454/https://shop.segger.com/debug-trace-probes/debug-probes/j-link/j-link-base-compactThanks for the US price though. Farnell really do seem to be taking the piss when it comes to pricing, and not for any better service giving they've persistently messed up (wrong line items) and delayed orders. I've been moving most of my BOMs over to Digi-Key before handing over to the purchasing department.Pretty sure NetroFlash is one of those dubious resellers who have no stock, advertise a low price and then mail you when they can't do it for $80. But I'll ask my purchasing contact what he thinks.