GOD DAMN FLASH !!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 04:53:22 pm
content: Is it just me or is flash (and java for that matter) the fastest way to trash any PC's performance and responsiveness. I'm watching youtube on one screen and using KiCAD on the other. I'm actually getting stuttering in kicad use !!! I have a 4x2.4 GHz Core2Quad with 8 GB of ram for christs sake. I know it's not the latest thing on the block but jesus christ this was all the dogs bollocks 4ish years ago and now it's getting near useless ?Are we doomed to suffer these shit "azpps" and whatever you want to call lazy coding that just shits all over our hardware forever ?

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:02:51 pm
content: The stuttering may be more to do with some kind of I/O or disk bottleneck rather than CPU or memory.If you are not using Chrome to watch your YouTube videos you could try that. Watching YouTube on my tiny little computer causes no perceptible load on the system at all.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:07:05 pm
content: Flash is indeed an abomination and deserves to die.Almost no one uses Java any more on websites. It largely has become a server-side thing. You won't notice a difference when you disable the Java plug-in in your browser.JavaScript, on the other hand, has made it to practically every website in the universe. Often used for pointless stuff. But a good browser recognizes when the JavaScript on a page runs wild and offers to stop it.KiCad has some bug or architectural issue when it paints to the screen. This is particularly visible when you move large symbols in the schematic editor. IIRC even Dave's quick KiCad video showed the issue. I don't know if the KiCad developers have any plans to do something about it.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:08:18 pm
content: It's a very illusive problem and nothing to do with measurable CPU usage. It just messes with the system, like scrolling a PDF will make the audio coming from the BBC iPlayer stutter (made with flash of course !), although there is no difference in the CPU usage.Another example is solid edge, if I run boinc and have all 4 cores available I have no problems doing anything, but it totally screws up solid edge if I'm trying to move the view of the model. But when I disable one core in boinc so that it is free to solid edge I find that solid edge does not actually use much CPU,I think it's something to do with latency. Highly elusive but I just know that flash is evil, evil, evil stuff. My laptop that is 6 years old is pretty useless these days and i had to disable ads just to get control of it back.I am using chrome.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:10:50 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 21, 2012, 05:07:05 pmYes i know what you lean but I'm referring to delays in wires snapping into place whereas it does not normally happen (because the flash youtube player has seized control of everything and even that can have video delays). Actually solid edge that costs thousands suffers the very same bug, sometimes you have to move the drawing to make it refresh and stop diplaying giberish.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:11:44 pm
content: the other programming abomination is the .NET framework although it is getting better, another pressie from M$

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:13:16 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 05:08:18 pmStop using Acrobat. It's just as bad as Flash.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:15:15 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2012, 05:13:16 pmThat was with foxit ! but it was due to the iplayer using flash and expecting to have it's demands met instantly. I've had to install the adobe one because I had printing problems with the foxit one

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:16:17 pm
content: Flash sucks. VLC can play 1080p at 10~20% CPU; but Flash manages 90-95% with stuttering! I really wish HTML5 video was a reality.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:20:40 pm
content: Flash is awful, unfortunately we need it to watch youtube (and others) videos. Acroread is out of here already, soon wil be flash as soon as an alternative pops out.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:36:13 pm
content: Youtube has hadbeta HTML 5 video supportfor a while now; Flash is already on the way out. Acrobat will remain necessary for anyone doing pre-press work, since Foxit's support for many of the less common PDF features was quite lacking last time I checked. Zooming in in Foxit also showed rendering artifacts.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:39:08 pm
content: Acrobat is installed but is the last resort PDF viewer, only used for those annoying fill in PDF's. Otherwise other readers ( even the Chocolate factory View PDF web page) is better. Flashgot is great for video, and Noscript works well along with Requestpolicy.Anybody noticing the later versions of FF are getting buggy, memory leaking like crazy. Have to kill it and restart every day now with 16.0.1, luckily the crash handler saves the open tabs well.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:40:48 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 21, 2012, 05:36:13 pm'beta' support which they keep enabling for people without asking, which does not work properly. It's going nowhere fast.Quote from: SeanB on October 21, 2012, 05:39:08 pmThose annoying form PDFs which don't actually work properly anyway. PDF needs to die, too.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:41:47 pm
content: I love the PDF format but can't understand why a program hogging 120MB of space is needed.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:45:06 pm
content: Monkeh, government - "We are here to help you" - "Why you not able to read docx, I have no problem on my new all singing all dancing free computer at work!" - "please fill in this form and email with your signature as proof you have signed it"........

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:46:35 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 05:41:47 pmYou haven't spent much time working with it, then. PDF is a terrible format.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 05:48:48 pm
content: Meh. HTML5 support on youtube is bad. At the current stage HTML5 is actually worse than Flash. I never tried KiCAD together with flash but i certainly can say i never see any stuttering issue of any program on my AMD laptop with a CAD program on my external displayI won't suspect your GPU but ah well. I'll leave it up to youPDF is terrible, but i get by it. No point complaining, you're the one losing out if you don't jump aboard

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:06:16 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on October 21, 2012, 05:02:51 pmYou must get SSD (solid-state drive) if you want to forget about disk I/O bottlenecks. I have bought Intel 330 128GB and replaced my 250GB 7200RPM hard drive with it. Will never go back because it is such aBEASTthat I could not believe such performance! It is like moving from Dial-UP 56kbps modem to today's high-speed bandwidth or going from stone age to today's age.By the way, recently due to US holidays, TigerDirect had killer discounts like these for example:

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:16:17 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on October 21, 2012, 06:06:16 pmIt's unlikely it was anything to do with disk I/O, and there are alternatives (cheaper, most of the time, too) to using unproven technology..

author: Achilles
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:26:01 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on October 21, 2012, 05:48:48 pmJep, for me too. I had trouble with Youtube under Safari for a looooong time, until I found out that Youtube put me on some funky HTML5 testdrive. I disabled it and it works now.So HTML5 is a nice way, but at the moment still a bit clumsy.....To the PDF discussion: For me it works until I mark passages or write annotations on it. Then it's getting sh*tty. For passing a document to print or so it's still my preferred way. If I have a paper I need to read through on actually work on it I will print it. Well, I like the old Hardcopy more than reading on a screen, too

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:36:17 pm
content: I have virtual memory disabled so nothing to do with hard drive performance.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:44:04 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2012, 05:46:35 pmpdf has used and well establiushed for years since i know computer, i believe the format is not the problem, the problem is the new version application (acrobat reader) tries to be capable of more features, probably reading flash format, scripts, updating from host server etc etc and etc. this is the problem with modern application development. they think we now have GHz multicore speed they want applications to make coffee and other things not necessary for us. ps: coffee is ok, but not the others.btw if you expect 8GB ram will make your PC 8 times faster and having 4cored cpu will make you 4 times faster altogether 8X faster then you are doomed. if you want faster, upgrade the hardware but not the software (OS)Moore's Law is breaking apart i'm yet to see any 5GHz cpu (twice my cpu speed) on consumers market.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:46:38 pm
content: Moore's law was never about clock frequencies. Putting twice as many cores on the same silicon area would be consistent with Moore's law.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2012, 06:44:04 pmGo look into the format properly and tell me it's a flawless, wonderful, consistent format everyone can use properly.QuoteMoore's law says nothing about frequency. It seems to be holding reasonably well so far.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:48:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2012, 06:44:04 pmwhat ?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:49:06 pm
content: I'm surprised that we need a 2.0GHz laptop with 3GB of RAM to browse the internet normally. At least, that is what appears to be a "basic" laptop or desktop configuration. It's insane. Can't optimised software be written any more? What if everything had to run on Raspberry Pi like hardware - I wonder if applications would be faster?I also have two 120GB SSDs (freebies from my brother), but I don't use them much - I found them to give better performance, but not enough to be noticeable for my everyday needs. Maybe I'll put one in my laptop (only has 160GB HDD at the moment), they are small form factor.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:54:37 pm
content: I really don't understand all this lamenting how things "should" be faster or how we're wasting (almost free) clock cycles. Computers are moving closer to "thinking" every day, I wonder if they'll become sentient and then start going on about how much of their computing power is wasted on inefficient processes?It's not that flash or pdf sucks, it's that adobe's software sucks. The sooner they're rolled over by the wheels of time, the better. And that goes for Microsoft, too.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 06:57:43 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 21, 2012, 06:54:37 pmIf flash doesn't suck, why aren't there any (usefully functional.) alternative implementations?Oh, right, because it's a maze of spaghetti with proprietary meatballs and nobody can figure it out, including Adobe.

author: Boris_yo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:03:43 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 06:36:17 pmEven when your virtual memory is disabled and there is no RAM available, Windows automatically allocates necessary space for page file and increases it if more is required.Quote from: tom66This is done on purpose - to keep Microsoft profitable and growing (Windows after Windows and so on...), to maintain software, hardware and video games marketplaces, create demand and supply, to innovate etc. And not to forget - to keep the retailers in business, otherwise if everyone could use old Pentium-4 for today's tasks, retailers would go out of business already.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:06:52 pm
content: Quote from: Boris_yo on October 21, 2012, 07:03:43 pm... Not if you've disabled it. That's what disabling it is. Disabling it. Turning it off.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:11:33 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 06:48:55 pmactually my point is... softwear dev will always be miles away ahead of hardware capability. once upon a time we struggled to build tools to meet our needs, now our needs have been fullfilled, we are not satisfied we keep looking for "new needs", entertainment everybody?boris & monkeh: with 8GB of ram, virtual memory is thing of the past. i dont know what kind of person that will need virtual memory on such system, its just nuts.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:13:29 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2012, 07:11:33 pm.... Would you kindly read instead of just assuming I'm saying you need virtual memory and taking shots at me?Also, don't be so naive. 8GB of RAM is tiny, and I can find many uses for virtual memory on such a system. Your needs != all needs.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:21:58 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2012, 07:13:29 pmi'm not shooting you look at anybody else or what you are steppingits just for information. and i can slap in a 5 minutes codes just to fill up all those 8gigs easily, you open up 100 apps at one time you fill up 8gigs, you run inefficient codes or virus you fill up 8gigs. you disable virt.mem, you'll get windows famous blue screen and start over again, not much point disabling it.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:22:33 pm
content: Indeed I set my system up with 8gb of ram and no swap space and I have had it bog down more than once while gimp-ing.Actually, it doesn't "bog" so much as simply refuses to do anything new. Click click click... why isn't nautilus opening?Oh...

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:24:33 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 21, 2012, 07:22:33 pmThat's because, unbelievably (if you're Mechatrommer), some things actually require RAM to work!Using up 8GB of RAM is childs play if you're actually doing things.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:27:31 pm
content: If flash doesn't suck, why aren't there any (usefully functional.) alternative implementations?There are. But not the most useful bit, that being video. Why aren't there useful alternatives? Because it's proprietary and covered by patents. Duh.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:27:57 pm
content: Disabling the page file in a modern OS suggests either a lack of understanding of how memory management works or a very deep understanding of this memory management and your workload, which might be one of those corner cases that perform better without page file. In 99% of cases it's the former. Disabling the page file forces the OS to free buffers from an application you were using a minute ago because it can't page out dirty pages from an application that you haven't used for hours.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:28:53 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 21, 2012, 07:27:31 pmAgain, I specified usefully functional. They don't exist, because nobody can get it to work properly so far. Even Adobe can't, and it's their code.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:31:37 pm
content: Disable VM and fill up physical and you can do a really good BSOD, and if you are really pushing it at the time you can kill the kernel so badly it has no space left to operate and give you the crash dump and the blue screen, it just dies and locks up solid.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:33:45 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 21, 2012, 07:27:57 pmI rarely use more than half my ram.On older versions of windows when you ran out of ram it re-enabled virtual ram. My XP pro laptop instead slows right up and starts crying at me to do something about it, a year ago I had no problems running my 2GB laptop with virtual ram disabled and yes it makes a big difference on old machines, even using a seperate HDD does something for performance.I got 8GB of ram for a reason.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:48:06 pm
content: Again, I specified usefully functional.For Flash? The open source flash that comes with ubuntu works fine for most stuff, but it can't do video. And video is really the only "useful" thing it does any more. DHTML has taken over most other things, and good riddance.Disable VM and fill up physical and you can do a really good BSODBSOD? I haven't seen one of those in years! YEARS! Linux doesn't freak out, it just becomes stubborn.Open nautilus..........open nautilus........OPEN NAUTILUS!...NO!The only time I get a BSOD is in class when I go to log into Windows 7. Some things never change.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:49:50 pm
content: Quote from: poptones on October 21, 2012, 07:48:06 pmSo you agree, then; there are no useful alternative implementations. The open source ones are fine for the childish flash animation websites and the annoying ads, and that's about all they do.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:54:55 pm
content: I would agree with that.I like Linux for a few things: it's generally smoother and faster than Windows (-but- only when configured properly), and some of the free software you can get is very good, surpassing closed source alternatives. However, I still use Windows on my desktop computer, because I depend on many applications that are only available for Windows systems.I kinda don't want Linux to be more successful, I like it being a niche - brings with it generally less viruses, and less idiots, and more confusion when you say "Oh, I don't use Vista, or 7, or XP. I use Linux."

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:56:13 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 07:33:45 pmand if you intentionally or not intentionally use up all of them, then there must be a reason too. well, i guess this thread is all about that. oh and deviation from ram now we talk multicored cpu. recently i made a funny attempt to run so many of my app to simulate parallelism (vb cannot run true paralleled code or at least i dont know how to properly), not much, just a little bit more than my available core, 5 or 6 or 10 apps automated run load and unload very quickly, the result... i need to press the reset buttonso much for a multicored processor.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:57:15 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 21, 2012, 07:54:55 pmYou already have those, just try getting help in a forum, you'll get a spew of technical information that requires deep knowledge of linux

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:58:00 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 21, 2012, 07:54:55 pmI share this sentiment. Linux is not, and never can be, an OS for the average person. It's for those of us who have the knowledge, the interest, and the time to do things differently.And of course, for tasks Windows is entirely unsuited for (of which there are many).Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2012, 07:56:13 pmThat has nothing to do with the CPU, and you really should know that.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 07:59:53 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2012, 07:56:13 pmread the post, I never use all of it, usually around half or less. Multicore processing is not just about processor resources but all of the data busses too, if your using one core to take up most of the FSB to move data in and out of the processor the other cores won't get a look in will they ?I'm actually in favor of less cores that run faster

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 08:00:31 pm
content: That's ridiculous. The alternatives are just as "useful" as flash is. If you're asking me whether I think Flash itself is "useful" then ask that fucking question don't play word games.The alternatives are just as useful as flash.Except for video, which is covered by patents and, therefore, not available to open source. And there are alternatives to flash video which I use all the time. I really can't tell any difference between youtube with html5 and without - but then again, I don't use windows.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 08:01:29 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2012, 07:58:00 pmHes going the way Mr. K went, just trolling around

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 08:08:43 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 21, 2012, 07:58:00 pmdid i say i dont?Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 08:01:29 pmyeah keep posting i'm sure you'll figure out your problem. i'm done and you still dont get itkeep CADing while watching videos.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 08:35:49 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 06:36:17 pmIf I may say so, this is a really bad idea. You should leave Window's virtual memory settings at their default options unless you really know what you are doing. And by "really know what you are doing", I mean you are Mark Russinovich (Google him). Changing Windows performance settings and then complaining you have a performance problem is like shooting yourself in the foot and then going to the doctor and complaining your foot hurts.I have 12 GB of memory and I have let Windows have its default 12 GB paging file. I have a 1 TB disk and the 12 GB of paging space doesn't bother me. I haven't messed with it because the design of Windows causes it to prefer the paging file for some things no matter how much memory you have. It's best to leave well alone--if disabling the paging file would improve performance Windows would do it by default.For background info, this is my system spec:OS NameMicrosoft Windows 7 Home PremiumVersion6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601System Typex64-based PCProcessorIntel(R) Core(TM) i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz, 3100 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)Installed Physical Memory (RAM)12.0 GBTotal Physical Memory11.9 GBTotal Virtual Memory23.9 GBPage File Space11.9 GBPage FileC:\pagefile.sysOK, that's an absurd amount of memory, but it's definitely "enough". I find it nearly impossible to do anything that makes my machine jerky or unresponsive.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 08:59:42 pm
content: Quote from: alm on October 21, 2012, 05:36:13 pmMy settings are to use html5 instead of flash but 95% of the videos I watch load flash anyway.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 09:12:36 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 21, 2012, 06:49:06 pmNo, many so called programmers can't. Many think they need a framework for everything. Many just sort of learn one idiot language which is currently hyped, and an associated framework, and think they are now real programmers. Many can't find their own butt with both hands if they don't have their favourite IDE available, which is typically also the only IDE they know, on the only operating system they know. And you mentioned another reasonQuoteNothing, because tools like RPI and Arduino are used to train idiot programmers. Instead of teaching them the basics this rubbish is used to teach them copy-paste programming. It is no longer about the resulting software being good, but only about the wanabe programmer feeling good when avoiding writing code.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 10:18:15 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 21, 2012, 09:12:36 pmI didn't say actual Raspberry Pi hardware; people here seem to dislike that particular platform. But I was asking the question, what if the hardware was similar? 700-800 MHz ARM, 256 MB of RAM. If you can't fit a desktop onto that... what is using so much processing power and memory?

author: andyturk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 10:47:32 pm
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 21, 2012, 09:12:36 pmOhhh, spicy!So B@W, what are your thoughts on Ruby?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 11:17:16 pm
content: Oh, and PHP is CLEARLY the best language to program in. Or Perl.Ashamedly, I can use both :/.

author: andyturk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 11:24:34 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 21, 2012, 11:17:16 pms/pe/hu/g

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 11:33:23 pm
content: Try starting your browser with the nice command. For example, if it's currently set to just run "firefox", change it to "nice -n 5 firefox". If you have a recent Nvidia card, try enabling VDPAU. (Intel and ATI/AMD use VAAPI instead. It's worth a try but it doesn't work as effectively as VDPAU.)As for Flash, I just don't install it. Videos can be downloaded and played with mplayer and none of the sites I regularly visit make real use of it.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 11:45:03 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on October 21, 2012, 11:33:23 pmUmm, yeah, and then nothing else works :/ Flash will eat 90% CPU either way. It's so bad most browsers run it as a separate task so it can crash without bringing the rest of the browser down.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2012, 11:48:41 pm
content: Quote from: Simon on October 21, 2012, 05:15:15 pmBBC must change that flash-based video player as soon as possible. We're not able to watch their videos on most cellphones an an the iPad thanks to them.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 12:03:19 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on October 21, 2012, 11:48:41 pmI think you'll find an iPlayer app is available for both Android and iOS.

author: SgtRock
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 03:59:04 am
content: Dear Simon:--I cannot quite figure out why people are cursing. I cannot quite figure out why people are trying to piss you off, but you seem to be handling it well. I myself run pretty good new equipment. I build everything myself and always max out the RAM. I still have trouble watching some sources on the Web, so I generally, download and watch using VLC. I also use a couple Magic Jacks (which implement as virtual drives), which are very, very, sensitive to any bottlenecks. I recently replaced the C drives in all of my computers with 64 GB SSDs, and use the spinners for file storage of non-program material. The SSDs have almost nothing but Windows and Program Files on them, and are only half full. Now, I never have any problems with the Magic Jacks, even the one that connects through the Wireless Router. I even call my brothers MJ phone down the hall from my MJ phone, and even with both MJs (one connected wirelessly), going through the same router and internet connection, there is no problem whatsoever, where previously with spinning disk drives, problems were rampant. So, I have to agree with my esteemed colleague Boris on this one.--I have two desktops one with 8GB RAM and one with 16GB RAM. I am running Widows 7 64 Bit Ultimate on everything. I also run TuneUp Utilities, Your Uninstaller, Malware Bytes, Avira (free), and PC Tools Firewall (free), and I never have any "Windows" problems, except for playing some Web Videos, hence the need to download and play using VLC. I am using a 7-10MBs cable connection (BrightHouse). Just keep plugging Simon, and disregard the the disregardable."Measure twice. Cut once"Norm Abram 1950 -Best RegardsClear Ether

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 08:49:23 am
content: Flash isn't that bad; Flash was massively misused in the early days by everyone and their dog on websites and the result was a lot of visually tasteless bad coded rubbish that just annoyed everyone; the anti-flash backlash fueled a new generation of powerful html and javascript libraries. That said, Flash when coded properly is still very powerful and cool. I've been working with Flash on and off for over 10 years at work and it sure gets a lot of hate mail. In the early days of web applications to make a site run properly on all browsers was a complete nightmare!; Flash offered consistency across all platforms and browsers and still does, you can write code once and deploy for web, desktop, ipad or android; which is pretty impressive!Always make sure you get a machine with a good graphics card and keep all your software / drivers etc up to date.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 09:02:36 am
content: Funny. Anchors and names and html markup were part of html since.. there was html.I think what you mean is "it was a nightmare to try to code sites with silly counterintuitive navigational barriers and impossible to wrap our text up in a manner it couldn't be saved or cut and pasted. So we used Flash, because it allowed us to break the internet."

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 09:46:16 am
content: Quote from: poptones on October 22, 2012, 09:02:36 amerr, yes that would come under the improper coding and use of Flash! I'm actually talking about real web applications, I'm not talking about websites for your grandma's knitting patterns here!

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 10:03:34 am
content: I'm not either. I'm talking about fox.com, abcnews.com, hbo.com and many other sites where flash was deliberately used to break the internet. People hate flash for a reason. I've seen entire sites locked away in flash apps.It's also one of the best exploits available. Doesn't matter if you run windows or linux or a mac, flash provides numerous exploits to the attacker. Because it is proprietary and poorly supported, the only way to protect yourself against this is to disable it.

author: ablacon64
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 10:07:11 am
content: Here in Brazil there's a simple rule: If you don't know how to code it, flash it! hehehe...I sincerely hope flash to die soon.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 11:16:52 am
content: Quote from: jucole on October 22, 2012, 08:49:23 amConsistent crap across the continually shrinking range of supported platforms and browsers.QuoteNeither iOS nor Android support flash at this time. There's a reason for that.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 11:44:16 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 22, 2012, 11:16:52 amQuote from: Monkeherr, yes I know that, and your point is ?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 11:48:53 am
content: Quote from: jucole on October 22, 2012, 11:44:16 amApparently lost on you.Some people will support things straight into the grave..

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 12:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 22, 2012, 11:48:53 amA few months ago I worked on a control interface which was an upgrade to a system we created a few years back; The user interface was done in flash for the iPad and used raw sockets to communicate to a host machine; It also had to retrieve display information then send control commands to the host etc; The host machine used a dual head grfx card to generate virtual products in a virtual environment, both the rendered images on the screens were output to two large lcd projectors, one on the ceiling and one on the floor in a special room. The finished effect was quite impressive and was rolled out to several sites. All the front-end was created in flash and compiled to ipad native arm via Adobe Air. The host application was flash mixed with .net wrapper and some native dlls for the grunt work. The potential to compile for iOS or Android without creating another codebase in objective-c or java makes perfect sense in the real world.But like you say Flash is crap and doesn't exist on mobile devices; also I should have used html! ;-)

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 12:56:37 pm
content: Quote from: jucole on October 22, 2012, 12:49:53 pmSuperb change of subject from the browser-based platform we've been discussing to a dedicated platform with slightly fewer issues.Oh, and they stopped supporting Air on Linux over a year ago, and the mobile versions are looking to get pretty behind, too. See previous point of continually shrinking platform support.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 01:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: Monkeh on October 22, 2012, 11:16:52 amNo. That's wrong. The Jellybean is not really out for 98% of android users so it doesn't count.We can still get flash apps running decently, just not well due to the sheer lack of FPU performance on ARM cores (The only way to use hardware acceleration is to make use of the FPU)And today, the FPU performance on most ARM quad-cores are probably a little bit faster than a Pentium III! Back in the days of pentium III I could hardly run flash apps with software emulation. Go figure.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 01:57:09 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on October 22, 2012, 01:53:30 pmNo, that's not wrong. You cannot install Flash via the Google Play store on any Android device, and only the few security fixes Adobe bothers to (or are capable of!) release are applied to existing installations.Flash is not supported on Android.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 04:44:07 pm
content: Seriously, you rely on the google play store? I get nearly all my apps direct, all 143 of them!

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 04:46:37 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on October 22, 2012, 04:44:07 pmWhat the fuck does that have to do with anything?Flash is not supported.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 05:24:32 pm
content: Quote from: T4P on October 22, 2012, 01:53:30 pmWhile you still can get Flash, although no longer supported, it does not rundecently. At least not on all the Android devices I tried it on. Flash 11 was really hard to install and almost impossible to get working on Android 4.0. I typically had to fall back to Flash 10, intended for Android 3 and below, and that version showed all kinds of quirks. E.g. the Flash content not playing in the region where it should play, but with an offset of a few 100 pixels in both directions - overlaying other content of the page. Or not playing at all, and just showing a blank screen overlaying the complete page and the web browser.Adobe never managed to get it working acceptable on Android. And they are to incompetent to fix all the security bugs their minimum-wage programmers from Ebonia regularly add to the code base.But for those who can't resist the urge to try the piece of crap called Flash on Android, you can get your unsupported fix herehttp://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/archived-flash-player-versions.html

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2012, 05:36:19 pm
content: That's odd. I haven't seen a problem yet on my Sensation. Guess everyone's bugged then

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 03:23:05 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on October 22, 2012, 05:24:32 pmor maybe they never care, not much profit out of it and not much people supporting it anyway? i know Adobe is very close if not the same class as other software companies like Altium or Autodesk or M$.

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 05:39:32 am
content: Why does adobe even exist? What do they offer? PDF creation tools? Photoshop? Inkscape and film gimp pretty much do all they do. Most of the big players use linux tools for video editing, and even in Windows there's many better alternatives than afterfx. I don't understand how Adobe can even be in business.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 07:45:37 am
content: you dont understand because you dont involve in photo, video and press print editingi just googled Adobe is actually orders of magnitude bigger than Altium.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 08:51:08 am
content: Quote from: poptones on October 23, 2012, 05:39:32 amhahaha; I've been doing art and design for 24 years and not using Adobe software for design is like trying to send the Curiosity Rover to Mars using Arduino! ;-)

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 09:15:42 am
content: Having worked with Flash since before Adobe bought it, I can tell you it was never meant to go in the direction it went.Here's some interesting quotes from the file format specification (v7), as far as I can tell they were there since the beginning and just got copied over with each new version. It is still there in the latest v10:QuoteThe horribleness is due to less-than-competent programmers working for them.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 04:42:28 pm
content: Photoshop in comparison to GIMP is a far shot, it's just about 1000x (roughly) more POWERFUL than GIMPI used CS3-CS5 and i'm not joking. (At least they still start roughly the same time, seems like they like to concentrate the "non-codemonkeys" into their paid softwarePhotoshop CS6 is VERY serious stuff though

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 07:27:09 pm
content: I've used both and I've written image processing software. There's not one thing I have ever seen photoshop do that gimp/inkscape/imagemajick cannot do and more. The exact processes may be different, but the fundamentals are exactly the same. I've heard this argument from people who swear by photoshop but I've never seen anyone provide concrete examples.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 07:44:17 pm
content: Only difference are plugins, which generally automate actions.Then again, i have used both for simple picture editing, and they both do what they should. Difference is the cost of the license, and the pain when you upgrade. PS is expensive, GIMP is low cost.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 10:20:18 pm
content: ImageMagick is quite good! I've used it several times over the years including when Photoshop let me down with jpeg chroma subsampling issues on a batch of several thousand images. I did compare a straight bicubic resampling in Photoshop vs ImageMagick a few years ago and imageMagick was not as good.Gimp? well, the clue is in the name ;-) but ok for free.One thing to note if someone did write a seriously good image editing application because of the crazy world of software patents Adobe would just sue them. Flash was owned by Macromedia at one point and Adobe and Macromedia I recall sued each other each month over something UI related.Quote

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2012, 10:52:40 pm
content: What are you talking about Gimp is crazy good. Imagemajick is crazy good. Film Gimp does everything Photoshop does including 24 bit color layer depth. Even Avisynth can do that (well, it may not now but it COULD since I wrote most of the color image processing code and could easily extend it. I even thought of doing this back on 1002 when we were originally developing it and we decided that there were no video formats to support it so there was no need. Shows what we knew!)There's another very good image manipulation program on windows that it seems Corel has bought out. I learned on it many years ago and when someone finally share photoshop 3 with me I was like "Oh, this is just like Paint Shop Pro." PSP even has HDR tools and can process video (as can Film Gimp).The one thing I wish gimp developers would do is layer styles. Layer styles is a really nice feature to have. I've even thought of making an avisynth for graphics since it's so easy to save processing "palettes" and apply them, but I really don't have the time any more for that kind of development. Someone needs to though...

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 06:37:42 am
content: Quote from: poptones on October 23, 2012, 07:27:09 pmi also did but wouldnt dare to mention it anywhere. since you did it must be good! please provide me a link, if it is i'll be glad to buy the license from youor maybe can you teach me how to properly practically convert rgb to cmyk, cie or lab color format? adjusting histogram curve, saturation masking, fainted overlayed masked images with path etc etc. or provide me a link where the free dll i can link to my app to easily read or save jpeg (or jpeg2000) with exif tag read/write capable?(ps: i thought making an EDA is easier than image editing software?)

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 06:38:40 am
content: Have you considered the speed of photoshop? Does GIMP actually have hardware rendering/acceleration?How about 3D editing? HDR? As well as a massive myriad of filters, you will only say "OH GIMP CAN DO IT!" If you've seen the earlier versions.CS4 is already quite old by now, go and see CS5 (The one with Content-Aware)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 06:50:45 am
content: Quote from: T4P on October 24, 2012, 06:38:40 amno no no! you got it totally WRONG! you dont mention CS4 you should mention CS3 or lower. i used CS3 and never need higher version (i did tried 4,5,6), but sorry i dont need Content-Aware whatever it is. i'm already quite aware of my content

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 am
content: Gimp interacts with the graphics drivers, so if the system has 3d acceleration then gimp has it. Windows graphics interface is slower than optimal linux drivers (check it yourself). HDR support is not built into gimp because it supports only 8 bit layers - that's what film gimp is for.Filters are built upon mathematical processes. You can write your own filters or stack those already made. IThis may not be good for those who understand image filtering in the context of "you push this button" but if you understand image processing it's equally powerful.So far as licensing anything I wrote in this regard there's no need; avisynth is open source and still has a pretty good community ten years later (over 10,000 downloads just last week!) Whether someone has written cmyk filters I have no idea, but it's hadmasking tools, curve tools and all sorts of compositing options for many years. Look in mplayer and vlc and you'll find much of the ported code.I actually prefer working with text files. You can build projects from a text editor, there's no mucking with buttons and guis and such. It may sound crazy, but I find it much faster. It also allows you toeasily build a box of tools, just like building command lines for imagemajick, that you can reuse.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 11:18:57 am
content: Quote from: poptones on October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 amthis is what image processing is and this is the reason i said why making EDA is easier than image processing. there's too much mathematics in image processes.Quote from: poptones on October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 amoh its moving image processing (i'm not very good at).. Adobe Premiere can be hard to use for beginners, even for me. but from what i can see Adobe's "mentality" is build the simplest (GUI) application but can do almost everything supporting the highest theoritical and practice in still or motion picture industries. most other developers will mostly always do the backward (complex GUI but can do little).Quote from: poptones on October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 amopen source will most likely get supporters if its good (its free!? anyway!). and if its sooooo good, professional paid company will likely to die (phased out), but i've never seen such a case even in gigantic magnitude of effort such as operating system business competition (free linux? vs paid Windows?).Quote from: poptones on October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 amrgb->cmyk is not a filter its a conversion process from one color domain to the others. i thought you were talking still picture, but motion picture has not much use of cmyk, its only for printing where ink or machine is cmyk. you need to be aware of the gamut between the two domains and limitation, have good understanding of math processes, color and human vision theory and know what to do if the gamut is not supported in the other domain, Adobe is very good at this and has done the study in years. though i believe in developing interpreted sequential programming or computing or automated processes such as Flash or IDE etc they maybe a bit behind, i'm not sure dont quote me on thatQuote from: poptones on October 24, 2012, 07:15:36 amhow classics! dude this is 2012 people using multiple tap touch screen now! but i did not say text based is not good (gotta be clear about that or i'll get another bashing from fanboys)

author: poptones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 06:54:47 pm
content: There's plenty of math with eda as well. But it's not too hard to find the basic algorithms which can be ported. I don't think I could do eda, most especially now that I lack that sort of concentration. I am tempted to dive back into avxsynth development, as much of the layering function was written in assembly (I spent hours poring over mmx code) and so, because it's now running through a different compiler, they simply commented out much of that great code for the linux port.I hate premier. When I used windows I used Vegas, which didn't suck. I've tried using kdenlive but it doesn't appear to work at all like vegas in spite of having a similar interface. This is why I like working with text files.What's the difference if I type 01:31:00.33 into a gui window or into a text box? Big projects end up with HUGE edit lists, you need these to be able to manage the project. Avisynth not only allows that it mandates it. It also acts as a frameserver over IP, which allows weird stuff like "browsing" a video frame by frame from a web browser, but also allows creating complex serial chains of image processing: machine A performs rescaling, machine B performs color adjustment, machine C performs transformations, etc. They all just pass the frame one to another via a socket. You can monitor the process at any step in the chain and make updates in real time. You can even have other scripts running on a machine that updates the avisynth commands in real time. Try that with Premier.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2012, 08:08:08 pm
content: This is quite an interesting Flash project; it's a low level (but not hardware level) Commodore 64 Emulator. (for those who have Flash installed ;-)The system is online to play/mess with at:http://codeazur.com.br/stuff/fc64_final/It's obviously not a 1:1 of the entire system but you can poke-in 6502 assembly which is crazy!This gave me an idea for a way to prototype my next hardware project UI.(Edit: to type stuff in to emulator window - click the Flash window to give it keyboard focus)