Chinese pick and place with solder paste dispenser - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: agos46
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 08, 2019, 06:57:52 pm
content: Hi everyone!I'm looking for a PNP machine for our lab in the university.We're interested in these cheap Chinese automatic PNPs like the CHMT36 or the TM220A, but I haven't found any that also implements automatic solder paste dispensing, a feature that would avoid the need to fabricate an stencil for our in house made boards.Have you found any that matches these requirements? The CHMT36 is perfect, but lacks the paste dispenser.Thanks!

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2019, 08:37:40 pm
content: No solder paste dispenser on that class machine is capable of doing what you want. You need to use stencils.

author: SWR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2019, 08:44:11 pm
content: I just bought a P&P with dispenser but it's almost twice the price of the CHMT36 (SmallSMT VP-2500DP NWE).The difference is 80 reels instead of 29, vibration feeder for sticks, cut tape feeders and plenty of trays.You also get automatic nozzle changer with 6 nozzles and robust feeder advance mechanisms that are independent of the heads.I guess it depends on your applications if these features are valuable to you.The key feature for me is the large number of feeders.It's slower to mount reels on a machine without cassette feeders, so it's nice to have enough room for standard components across several projects. That should reduce the setup time by only having to prepare very few unique components for each batch.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 03:27:44 am
content: unless you are doign pretty chunky components (0603 and bigger) / SOIC then any low cost dispenser system for paste is just going to be more hassle than its worth. Dispense for small pitch is a hard problem. Mydata make a machine that will, they are about $USD500k.

author: SWR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 12:41:58 pm
content: I got the dispenser for gluing components before soldering.SmallSMT shows that it can also do paste dispensing, but IMO it's too slow compared to stencil printing.The original poster mentioned that the want to avoid stencils, but I don't understand why?They are cheap (<$10) and fast (1d lead time).It's going to be expensive getting PCBs faster than 1d lead time.If you order them together the stencil should not be a bottle neck.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 01:25:45 pm
content: There's really a very small number of legitimate reasons to want to use a dispenser for solder paste, none of them apply to budget/low volume users.You have a quick turnaround of lots of new or changing designsCheap Chinese Stencils just aren't good enoughYou have so many designs storing and cataloging the stencils is an issueYou do a lot of pin in paste or use a lot of components that need extra paste - dispensing makes both easier or better.Saving money - of several of the above apply and we ignore cheap stencils entirely, then in some cases they do work out cheaper.As I understand it the Mycronic beast may well have been 500k when it came out but it has come down since. Essemtec offer options on their pick and place that claims to be fine pitch capable IRO $15-20kI think. They have cheaper options for glues and other fluids, time and pressure based dispensing techniques simply don't reliably dispense paste as you would want them to, nor are they past enough.Lots of manufacturers offer dispensing addons, they are usually for glue or additional paste rather than full on printing (check out 3D mounters). These kinds of options also appear as standalone machines or options in stencil printers, in production use it is not desirable to put them in the placement machine as it slows that process down.

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 08:52:51 pm
content: MY-600 in operation!

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 11:09:57 pm
content: This MY-600 is amazing, How much this baby costs?

author: mrpackethead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 11:23:54 pm
content: Pretty much, if you have to ask, you can't afford it. I am led to belive its around USD$150k

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 11:28:05 pm
content: Well without ringing someone and then having them pester me every 3 months about if I'm ready to buy, lets steal this entry in a bloghttps://www.pololu.com/blog/742/how-i-picked-our-new-machines-and-what-they-mean-for-youin it he says "more than double the cost of a traditional stencil printer", he's chosen a Europlacer stencil printer, which is actually a Speedprint, and without applying any discount they are in the £60-80k GBP ballpark depending just how many of the tempting options you bolt onto it. That said a fully loaded DEK printer can top £100K so less than £250K seems a reasonable assumption.Early this year and the year before Mycronic have emailled us (and no doubt everyone else in their didn't quite bite last time database) offering a MY500 refurb on "very reasonable terms" maybe next time I'll run the risk of the 12 months of pestering and see what those terms are.

author: Alicelllly2020
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2019, 08:40:23 am
content: Hi agos46,Greetings, this is Alice from Neoden, we are a professional manufacturer of SMT machine since 2010.Attached two photos of our model Neoden3v and high precision printer PM3040 for your reference.If you have any interests, please feel free to contact:Email: sales4@neodentech.comMob/Whatsapp: +86-13588176839 / Skype: Alice_Neodenbest regards,Alice