How do you depaneling v-cut boards? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 11:37:58 am
content: I guess for one-off (or small number of boards) - you can just break these and remove edge irregularities using a sandpaper , but a couple issues here: a dust and stress on the boards.Any suggestions?Thanks

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 11:57:23 am
content: If you need a clean edge, rout it.There are depanelling tools, but most of the time manual breakout works fine. If they've been scored properly, stress shouldn't be an issue

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2018, 02:03:10 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 27, 2018, 11:57:23 amThought about that too. Would be a problem for 1mm-1.2 boards (as panel became less rigid)?Also, there are still leftovers from mouse bits, isn't?Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 27, 2018, 11:57:23 amAny recommendations for decent (manual) tools that fit max 2K (£€$) budget... or I am dreaming?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 05:47:45 pm
content: For V-grooved boards I just snap them off by hand, just as Mike indicates.I sometimes need to use pliers to remove thinner tooling strips, which can be hard to grip especially on thicker PCB.I use these manual depanelling tools for low volume removal from routed panels with tabs & mouse bites.http://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/en/products/hand-tools/387-depanelizzatori-dettaglio.htmlFor depanelling smaller round PCBs in routed panels with tabs, these are too large so I have some cheap side cutters that I custom ground to fit into the routed slots.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 28, 2018, 05:53:13 pm
content: I also sometimes use my Chinese CNC router (6040 model) to do additional routing on PCBs that the PCB house wouldn't do (e.g very small PCBs that must be fully routed for fit)... or if you just forgot to add some slot or mounting holes. You just need a jig to hold the PCB, with appropriate clearance for any parts already mounted. Also need to be careful not to contaminate the finished assembly with dust. A smaller model than the 6040 can easily be had for the budget you mentioned, and is much more versatile than a single-function V-grooving machine or whatever you're suggesting.

author: l0wside
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 12:09:43 pm
content: What I have seen before is something like these pliers:https://www.weidinger.eu/en/shop/tools/pliers/piergiacomi_pliers/piergiacomi_pliers_-_rounded_noseThey are not meant for V-cut, but rather for partially milled panels. The stress on the PCB should be only local.

author: ar__systems
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 31, 2018, 05:38:04 pm
content: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/V-Cut-Groove-PCB-Separating-Separator-Cutting-Machine-cutter/32303411993.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.98.2d6047a3dOdVjh&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10065_10344_10130_10068_10547_10342_10343_10340_10548_10341_10084_10083_10618_10139_10307_10313_10059_10534_100031_10103_441_10624_442_10623_10622_10621_10620_10142,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=b9d24601-a6e8-45e8-adc0-bda5e1cb3bba-15&algo_pvid=b9d24601-a6e8-45e8-adc0-bda5e1cb3bba&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 08:59:43 am
content: Thank you for the sharing details and suggestions.Quote from: Kean on January 28, 2018, 05:47:45 pmHow it looks after removal, do you do any extra work after that?Quote from: Kean on January 28, 2018, 05:53:13 pmHow small your PCBs?I am looking for a most efficient and simplest tool (aka "pizza" cutter?), don't mind to do this manually, CNC will overkill for me.My main concern right now that <=1.2mm thick panel will not have a chance to "survive" a break routing. Also, I never saw on thinner boards mouse pads remainings, somehow they managed to cut it smoothly.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:07:23 am
content: Quote from: ar__systems on January 31, 2018, 05:38:04 pmDo you own this machine (or maybe bought some stuff from the seller)?No sure how possible to buy something like that with one picture and 10-lines description,and play a return policy lottery:main page:Quoteproduct listing "Seller Guarantees" tab:Quote

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:27:34 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on February 02, 2018, 08:59:43 amPretty good, but not perfectly flat. I don't have an example to hand, but if you buy the right size tool for the routed slot size it will cut quite close, but it is also going to be tight to get in and out of the slot.QuoteI have some that are 7mm diameter. We also use the same board in 25mm format (mostly empty), so I just cut them down on the CNC as needed.QuoteThe "pizza cutter" style machine is what is usually used by the PCB manufacturer, not the PCB assembler. You should just order them with the V-grooves shown in the fabrication drawing, or on the board outline gerber.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 09:43:35 am
content: Quote from: Kean on January 28, 2018, 05:53:13 pmIt seems thats only option to cut to the exact non-rectangle size.How thick are boards?Quote from: Kean on January 28, 2018, 05:53:13 pmWhat is a name of the tool used by PCB assembler then?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:06:54 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on February 02, 2018, 09:43:35 amThose ones are 1.6mm and they cut very cleanly on the CNC.I often use 0.8mm for small PCBs (anything less than 50x50mm), even as panels with V-groove although some PCB manufactures prefer not to V-groove thinner boards (<1mm).QuoteThey are called something like PCB V-groove cutter or PCB depanelling machine. These are not like the hand tools that l0wside and I linked to, but more like the one ar_systems linked.Here are some more examples - but I've not bought or used any of these.https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=pcb+depanelhttp://www.idealez.com/renthang/product-gallery/en_US/1-0/666You will see they come in many shapes, sizes, and prices. A PCB factory is probably going to use one of the larger ones with multiple knives and automatic load/unload, to deal with the volume.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 10:16:47 am
content: I should clarify- PCB V-groove cutter is used by bare PCB factory- PCB depanelling machine (depanelizer) is used by PCB assembler, or maybe some end customers before final high volume product assemblyIf you look at the Chinese product listings they will often get the descriptions mixed up between these because the English names are similar and functions somewhat overlapping.Anyway, the depanelling machine is what I think you are after, like this, but maybe cheaper:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-quality-PCB-Depaneling-Machine-With-Low-Stress-YSVC-330/32814260517.htmlUnless you are doing very high volume I don't think these are warranted, except maybe in exceptional cases.And if you are doing high volume you're better off handing this off to a company with the machines already in use.

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2018, 06:48:10 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on February 02, 2018, 10:16:47 amIt works like a press......,but it over my budget many times.IMHO, this is a manual tool is closer that I need and can affordP.S.that's cool - laser cutter@ 2:15

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 11:31:16 am
content: The laser depanelling is very cool. I don't think any of the CM's I've talked to/visited have that. Sounds expensive.

author: MicroBlocks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 12:05:17 pm
content: A small CO2 laser will work as well. It leaves a bit of a charred edge, which is removed very easily by just a bit of sanding.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 03, 2018, 12:13:37 pm
content: Cool, I will try that soon when I've finished the rebuild of my ULS X2-660 CO2 laser cutter. The trick will be to come up with a simple alignment jig for each panel.

author: MicroBlocks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 05:48:31 am
content: If there are mounting holes that would be easy. Any other through hole (at least two) will work too.Panels can have registration holes. Those would be perfect.They are used by the manufacturer for alignment so they are very precise.You would need matching pins.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 06:50:05 am
content: Quote from: MicroBlocks on February 05, 2018, 05:48:31 amOf course, but you have to locate the PCB relative to some reference point on the laser cutter bed, as well as ensuring it is parallel to the axes. Some laser cutters have a (low power) visible laser to assist with alignment, and some have accurate edge rules - but even then it may be a bit fiddly to line something up, especially to a fraction of a mm accuracy as you'd want for PCB edges.From what I've seen, most people using laser cutters just throw a sheet of material (ply, acrylic, etc) down on the bed and just do a rough alignment before cutting. Even when engraving a logo on an iPhone or MacBook getting within a mm or two is probably good enough even for the "pros".On a CNC bed it is a piece of cake to clamp down a sheet of sacrificial material, run a short program to drill out the locating pin holes, pop in some pins, place down the PCB panel aligned on the pins, and then run the final program to route out the individual PCBs. Repeat the last few steps as many time as you want.You can certainly spend time setting up a laser cutter to do something similar in a repeatable manner, but I don't see it being quite as easy. A special purpose laser cutter for this type of task would almost certainly use a camera to align to the fiducials - just need to make sure the smoke from the cutting process doesn't clog up the camera lens.

author: kayvee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 05, 2018, 11:00:00 am
content: Quote from: olkipukki on February 02, 2018, 06:48:10 pmThis is probably your best. The version I use is even more basic, no side sliding table, but it works a treat, at least on 1.6mm PCB's.If your volume is low I would not even bother.

author: MicroBlocks
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 02:48:01 am
content: Quote from: Kean on February 05, 2018, 06:50:05 amI use a piece of acrylic (5mm is sufficient), cut the holes, insert pins, ready.The only thing needed is to hold the piece of acrylic in place.I use some heavy flat iron bars to do that. Lighter material would need some sort of clamping.Another way is to use a bigger piece of acrylic preferably big enough to push it agains the back and left of the cutting are. Then cut out a square.Top left of that square is 0,0. You should be able to save this location as an offset to the home position.Then insert the square, cut the holes for the pins. You can make more squares to have one for each pcb design.This will get you into about 0.1-0.2 mm precision.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 06, 2018, 04:23:17 pm
content: I seem to rember the "CAB" brand is the "quality choice? Have you considered picking one up from eBay? They're not that expensive and they are built like a tank, so I don't even see how you could destroy one. I'd say a second hand quality tool beats an unknown chinese brand in this case....https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XCAB+Maestro.TRS0&_nkw=CAB+Maestro&_sacat=0