Eneuro to sell flywheel toroid battery - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 07:56:14 pm
content: Yep, as anounced in the title I'm going to sell flywheel toroid battery patent.It is ranked along with NASA, Bacon and other huge flywheel energy players on great 16th/50 position on this prestigous listMore flywheel energy stuff from this list there:Mentioned great idea video was made a few years ago-attentionally key components removed and everything made very crappy looking recorded using low res Pentax camera, but do not fall into a trapNowadays, It is not only concept and idea nowmore and hopefully physics works and it is not a

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2015, 08:37:56 pm
content: o.k. so what are you selling ? because that 25 second footage is a waste of the viewers precious time. i see a coil and a toroid with magnets... in the 17th century you would be probably recognized as a great inventor with this kind of experiment , but it's too late nowadays

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 07:23:06 am
content: Does awesome14 have two accounts here?

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 07:30:13 am
content: lol, wtf did I just watch!I'll give you a half eaten twix bar for your patent provided it comes complete with all the "hardware" shown in your video

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 08:20:29 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 22, 2015, 08:37:56 pmYep, you only see what I wanted viewers to see that time, but some of them can see much more thereQuote from: Codemonkey on February 23, 2015, 07:30:13 amYou are the lucky one who saw this before press releaseAnyway, final product is carbon fibres hidden inside concrete toroid brick with 3 bulky wires out, so not too much hardware thereLook at those numbers: 1000kg mass @ 100m/s speed has kinetic energy equal to 5MJ, so ~1.4kWh of energy easy stored

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 08:44:12 am
content: QuoteSo, now that the patent is actually valid, care to show the actual setup?Is the point of the idea having a rotating flywheel without a center support, rather supported by a magnetic field or not supported at all, just rotating within an assembly of coils, like a toroid core?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 09:15:54 am
content: Quote from: eneuro on February 23, 2015, 08:20:29 amare you kidding now ?1.4kWh in a 1 ton of mass which is rotating and therefore is extremely dangerous ?tesla's battery pack does 85kWs with comparable weight (but i think it's lighter than a ton)the cost of the mechanical setup for your 1 ton mass (bearings, required structural strengths) will be extremely high (unless you don't give a shit about safety).i think as of today batteries are cheaper in terms of TCO.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 09:21:00 am
content: What's the patent number and where the link to the patent you're selling?

author: Codemonkey
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 09:22:58 am
content: I'd like to revise my offer to just the empty Twix wrapper and a small piece of paper with a coffee stain on it.

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 10:26:23 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 23, 2015, 09:15:54 amI just learned that "Flywheel batteries" are real and such devices are used in the real world, in theory they are pretty nifty...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storageBut what the thread starter posted there goes straight to my trashbin, that is some grade A free energy style crap.Even if it is real and pigs started to fly, that is no way to present something

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 02:00:43 pm
content: Quote from: rob77 on February 23, 2015, 09:15:54 amI think that Porshe in this hybrid gets more power at lower weightQuote from: PeterFW on February 23, 2015, 10:26:23 amNope, I get free energy yes, but from the sun and wind vertical turbine, but not with 1000% efficiency.I like free energy, but by the means of existing known physics lawsBTW: 10 tons @ 360 km/h has kinetic energy equivalent to ~14kWhIs it fast?

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 02:19:57 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro link=topic=43514.msg616213#msg616213Sorry, i should have phrased that better.The video style and lack of information makes it go straigt into the realm of "free energy crap" despite if it is real, works or notOnly lunatics tend to post 5 second videos made with potato cam, without narration.I do not say that you are one, but... well... you know.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 02:32:27 pm
content: Quote from: Codemonkey on February 23, 2015, 09:22:58 amI'll up that to a fart blown in his general direction. (If you are quick and light it, you may get some energy out of it)

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 03:30:57 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on February 22, 2015, 07:56:14 pmWhat's the patent number?

author: oldway
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 03:46:58 pm
content: Flywheel use in No Break without battery:http://www.euro-diesel.com/english/operation-description/94/2

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2015, 06:41:40 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on February 23, 2015, 08:44:12 am

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2015, 04:10:56 am
content: It's been done.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homopolar_generator#mediaviewer/File:Homopolar_anu-MJC.jpg

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2015, 07:12:53 am
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on February 24, 2015, 04:10:56 amIt might be UFOs technology, which could create electricity by fast conductor rotation in Earth magnetic fieldhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homopolar_generatorA homopolar generator is aDC electrical generatorcomprising an electrically conductive disc or cylinder rotating in a plane perpendicular to auniform static magnetic field.However it is interesting device due to Faraday paradoxIf the magnetic field is provided by a permanent magnet, the generator worksregardless of whether the magnet is fixed to the stator or rotates with the disc. Before the discovery of the electron and the Lorentz force law, the phenomenon was inexplicable and was known as the Faraday paradox.Anyway those devices were inspiration to my flywheel toroid batteryIndustrial designs of10 MJwere introduced for a variety of roles, includingelectrical welding.But, I have AC and changing magnetic field, so nope it is not owrking on principle of Faraday disksBTW: 10MJ is kinetic energy of 1000kg mass @ ~510 km/h ONLY . It is still below speed of sound

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 05:23:34 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on February 22, 2015, 07:56:14 pmawesome, does the patent include the string?i take it the hammering in the background are your team of engineers working on the Duplo bricks?

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 07:24:42 pm
content: What exactly here is new? All I see is another implementation of using a flywheel to store energy, hardly a new idea.You're claiming to have a patent to sell, so all the information is A) already in the public domain, B) protected from anyone just using the idea.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 08:07:26 pm
content: Since he haven't answerd the questions about patent number, there probably isn't any patent.

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 08:23:44 pm
content: It's not April 1st for another month.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 09:28:23 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on February 26, 2015, 07:24:42 pmOne can store energy using flywheel, just.... by takeing it 500 meters (0.5km) above ground level.If flywheel has a mass 1000kg 5MJ of energy will be stored, too - this is what 1.4 kWh could do ...Anyway you can have 1000kg toroid flywheel rotating at 400 RPM and have 5MJ too , easyNow, imagine what happends when you rotate something which already rotates, like moons around planets around the Sun

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2015, 11:38:01 pm
content: What's the purpose of your flywheel? Those things work fine on steam engines. Not a practical battery though.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 07:46:46 am
content: You sir are a genius! I am putting together a syndicate of high-net-worth individuals who are thrilled at the opportunity to buy what you are selling, provided that we have right of first refusal on your future inventions.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 11:49:53 am
content: Quote from: BlueBill on February 26, 2015, 11:38:01 pmChanged topic-it better reflects its usage.Need to do more testing, just setup bigger facility hundreds of meters from nearest houses with wind turbine and a few PV panels with sun tracking to test its offgrid capabilitiesSmaller flywheel toroid battery will be shown during my tour around Europe installed in my HPEV

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 03:33:26 pm
content: I'd rather know more about your HPEV. Post a photo.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 05:23:44 pm
content: It is hard to believe in someone who believes in 10 ton Ferraris.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2015, 06:54:26 pm
content: Quote from: BlueBill on February 27, 2015, 03:33:26 pmYou'll see on TV -watch TopGear, CNN, BBC, Discovery.Nothing can be revealed before final showdown

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 01:19:50 am
content: Yea, okay.No Patent number, no photos, no clue. Good luck with your spinning disk of doom.

author: PeterFW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 01:09:05 pm
content: Quote from: BlueBill on February 28, 2015, 01:19:50 amThe biggest spinning disc of doom... IIIN THE WOOORLD!

author: BlueBill
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 03:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: PeterFW on February 28, 2015, 01:09:05 pmThat's hilarious.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 04:32:34 pm
content: Just a side note since this whole thread is lunacy, but a granted patent itself has no value, unless...1) It was written by an expert in the field and passed critical review by other expertsand/or (mostly and)2) It has been tested in court. Successfully.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2015, 06:05:00 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on February 28, 2015, 04:32:34 pmunless you leave in country where law is respectedTry to go to post Soviet Russia to the court to fight for your claims-you will be shot dead just after crossing their borders if such thing will be worth significant amount of money.Patents are bad, because of you have to reveal details of your invention, everybody around the world now can access them for free, inventor pay fees for his work, but if someone violates patent, this is not tracked and taken to the court by government office, but you have to invest your time and money to fight for your rights, so sometimes it is better forget about stupid patents...and give it for free, but be a few years ahead and make money before competition figure out how it works

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 05:26:38 pm
content: Even in "law abiding countries" patents have value only in some contexts. You must have the resources to defend your patent. There are no patent sheriffs waiting to jail offenders. Only the opportunity to take offenders to court. This is a useful option for large corporations. For individuals and small corporations it seems to me the only way to get value out of a patent is to sell it to one of the big guys. There are also financial barriers to obtaining patents.I have always been struck by the difference between patents and copyrights. A patent requires substantial time, effort and money to obtain. At least in the US it requires still more fees to maintain, and can only be sustained for 17 years. A copyright only requires a written statement of intent to copyright, and lasts for a variable period that is many decades long, and at least in principal could last for well over a century.Clearly establishes the relative value of geeks and artists.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 06:00:00 pm
content: Quote from: eneuro on February 28, 2015, 06:05:00 pmThe details of your invention will be revealed the moment the first one is produced and shipped anyway. It's a fool's game to try to keep such things secret.Patents are very good things. But, at least in the USA, the PTO will grant a patent on anything not covered in the prior art. And the only "prior art" they use is the existing body of patents. They don't consider anything outside of that - because they aren't qualified to do to (unless a claim is brought by a 3rd party that prior art exists and the claim documents that prior art).What that means is that if there is no existing patent for something that is unpatentable because it's already in the public domain, then someone can go ahead and get a patent on it. The patent is invalid because prior art exists, but the patent won't be invalidated until it's tested in court.A granted patent is just an opinion from the examiner that the claims don't exist in any other patent previously granted. Only when the patent is tested in court does it get thoroughly vetted and validated in comparison to prior art.Something like 65%+ of all patents are invalidated in court when tested.So someone buying a patent has to be very sure they are buying something valuable. A granted patent in itself is not valuable.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2015, 07:55:39 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on March 01, 2015, 06:00:00 pmI have a (non lawyer) friend that lives off patents. According to him a patents that worth anything end up in litigation. Otherwise they are worthless, either they can be worked around or the technology doesn't generate much revenue. By this criteria, most patents are worthless and the only winner is the patent office.

author: Corporate666
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 04:40:35 am
content: Quote from: zapta on March 01, 2015, 07:55:39 pmI agree with your friend.As I said, the USPTO will grant a patent on anything that isn't already patented. They don't check the public domain, so even if something has been done for years, they will still grant a patent on it if one doesn't exist. Case in point - someone has a patent on using PWM to dim LED's. Someone else has a patent on using LED's on a flexible PCB. Someone else has a patent on using LED's as turn signals. Those patents sound valuable, but they were granted just because nobody else had patented those things previously, and if the guy with the patent on using LED's on a flex PCB got into a court battle with a car manufacturer who is using flex PCB in their LED tail lights, he is going to lose and lose big.In short - if a patent is worth anything, then there will likely be a fight over it, and only once the fight is over does the patent have the legitimacy that makes it valuable.The only other realm that patents are valuable in is on a small scale where someone has an idea and they get a patent and just want to ward off other small time guys. Like Dave with the uCurrent... if he got a patent on it he could stop knock-off artists. Most of them would cave in rather than risk a patent fight, but if they didn't cave in, Dave could petition the import authorities to seize shipments of infringing parts.The guy in this thread is smoking something or trolling, I think... but if he is serious, then his patent is worthless unless it gets tested in court.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2015, 07:45:02 pm
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on March 01, 2015, 06:00:00 pmIt depends who will buy such thingSelling patent even at good price for someone from industry who will try only block its introduction to keep production levels and research of his curent monopoled product safe is not an optionThis is a reason, why probably better reveal details of such things at official events organized by intelectual property agencies and while they are officially published on during those events, have at least a chance to be considered such things later as prior art if someone from competition industry tried to patent the same thing and claim he invented it.So, it might have sense keep it secret until final showdown, sell a few such products at this time and it doesn't have to be patent attorney who knows your idea first, but much wider audience, on official meetting, competitors competition, etc.Didn't showed any detailed specs, so far, but after final showdown this forum will know first, while many people there helped me a lot there to develop a few subsystems needed to change this idea into real thing and make much more efficient energy conversions

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 11:48:49 am
content: Quote from: Corporate666 on March 02, 2015, 04:40:35 amYeah obviously he's just trolling as he still won't post the patent number, so there isn't any patent in the first place.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 12:22:47 pm
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on March 04, 2015, 11:48:49 amPatent pending (with number) is very often placed on company products to attract customers and let them think they buy something new, while in practice those patents are at quality "reinventing the wheel"I changed my mind and don't want sell any patent, but ... real device, so in spare time setup small facility to be able test bigger batteries far away from human homes in offgrid place for safety reasons as well as to see if it work without any electricity available-only a few solar panels and vertical wind turbine, because of some people for do not like noisy open space factory offices, but quiet work places, so it will be also perfect place to work on another products

author: Halfdead
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 01:49:40 pm
content: This is a joke right?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 06:20:25 pm
content: Quote from: oldway on February 23, 2015, 03:46:58 pmActive flywheel, known since the Sixties. Holec-Hitec is another brand.For the guys naively stating it's "better" than batteries, bearings have their maximum lifespan too. Every 5 years the thing has to be taken apart, transport, revision, positioning, aligning, costing the price of a beautiful house. Fixed costs are also heavy on these machines.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2015, 07:02:06 pm
content: I know, I have a vibratory sieve at work that is around 20 years old, still using the original bearings. 10 years ago I just repacked them with molyslip grease, and it is keeping them cool and quiet. New bearings will be at the $500 mark, each, excluding taking a half ton motor to a machinist with a 10 ton press. So keeping the old ones running for as long as possible will be good. Luckily they only do 1440RPM, not the normal 20kRPM plus of a decent flywheel store.I saw one where they ran it at synchronous speed of 1800RPM by making the motor the flywheel, and simply making it a 5 ton moving mass. They used massive double ball races to just handle the axial forces, the radial being done by roller bearings running in an oil bath each side. Generator side used a 3 phase excitation system that ran a rotating field around the rotor at double the slip rate when it was being used to deliver backup power, so that it delivered a constant frequency output even as it slowed. That used 5 slip rings and big brushes to handle the low frequency AC excitation to the rotor and the synchronous motor side.Big, really heavy but it would provide power for the few seconds from mains fail to the time a big dry clutch would engage to start the even bigger diesel engine it was using as secondary power source. The engine was guaranteed to start, seeing as it had such a massive starter motor turning it. Oil pressure for all was provided by an electric gear pump, so the engine always had lube on all bearings. Otherwise that shock start would tear the crankshaft apart.Electronics in it was almost nil, it used all contactors, magamps and RC delays. It was a pretty good room heater as well. And just for redundancy there were 5 more in the same bunker as well. Fuel for it could be best described as "adequate" in the old Rolls Royce fashion.

author: eneuro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2015, 11:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 04, 2015, 07:02:06 pmFortunatelly, nowadays small batery can lift 22kg/50lbs easy