Amazon to use drones to deliver items in "under 30 minutes" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:44:41 am
content: http://mashable.com/2013/12/01/amazon-unveils-flying-robot-delivery-drones/This seems somewhat impractical. World record flights of above 60 minutes are rare (15~20 minutes is typically a maximum); what if the Amazon drone has a strong headwind? It's going to need a large battery and this means carrying more weight. While 90 minutes and above have been achieved, that is by luck and by having a low weight frame and design.It seems more like a PR stunt than any practical service.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:47:35 am
content: I don't think there's even a grain of truth to this story.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 01:32:39 pm
content: im not gonna pretend to understand the technology, but if we can deliver an explosive warhead to a cave 2 countries away with an unmanned drone, i think that delivering a book a few miles away shouldnt be that much of an issue.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 01:52:15 pm
content: Unmanned drones use jet fuel don't they?

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 01:53:01 pm
content: Is it legal to "catch" this thing if it flies above your property ?

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 02:26:07 pm
content: There's no way this story has any shred of truth; it sounds to me like Jeff Bezos was on drugs and thought April Fools was in December.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 02:28:54 pm
content: Look out everyone, looks like The Onion has sprung a leak!

author: sacherjj
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 02:29:31 pm
content: If only there was some way to get everyone thinking about, talking about, and visiting Amazon on Cyber Monday. I wonder how that could be accomplished.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 06:49:19 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on December 02, 2013, 01:53:01 pmNo.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:30:36 pm
content: I just saw an interview on the business channel with someone who claims to be heading the group developing the drones. The interview took place in an Amazon warehouse, and they sounded pretty serious about trying to develop the system. There was some video showing it being loaded and delivering a package. However, he kept making statements like "there is still much work to be done", "we are years away from a fully functional system". And when any interesting question was asked regarding technical aspects or FAA authorization, the response was "I'm not in a position to discuss that". It was also reported that the FAA has been tasked with coming up with a set of rules governing the civilian use of drones by 2015.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pm
content: This is so stupid, how can they even consider just leaving it there on your front lawn anyway?How are they going to get enough drones to make the plan feasible?How are they going to keep them in the air for long enough?How are they going to fly them fast enough?How are they going to be able to lift anything over a few grams?How is this going to save money after all the drones they destroy?How are they going to have operators for each one?How are the FAA going to let them get away with this?How are they going to be allowed to fly them over public spaces?I guess April fools cameearlylate this year

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 07:53:14 pm
content: Amazon.com has a FAQ about these drones and one is "Is this a joke" and they said No, it is 100% a fact that they have this in development with plans to deploy in 2015. They said currently there is a ban until 2015 on commercial use of drones in the US, but they expect the ban will not be renewed. "oops, I'm sorry senator I seem to have misplaced my packet of money. Let me know if you find it"

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:05:28 pm
content: analysis athttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/02/amazon-drone-delivery-jeff-bezos-hypeseems more plausible.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:30:11 pm
content: Not as stupid as you seem to think.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmDoorstep works, and UPS already does this (with no signature) for residential delivery.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmBuild them. They're not made of some scarce unobtanium. Just takes money, and Amazon has plenty of that.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmAlready demonstrated.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmGood question, but they seem to think it can be done. Destroying them will be a crime, but I'm sure plenty of red-necks will be doing that until a few (hundred) get prosecuted.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmNo need. They are autonomous, and simply need GPS coordinates.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmThese changes to the laws are already in progress. Expected to be legally possible by 2015 (which is probably sooner than their drone program can be ready).

author: fcb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:36:48 pm
content: Wouldn't bet against this happening at all. I actually think it's highly likely - after all when you look at most sci-fi films set in a 'megapolis' they have streams vehicles flying around in controlled lanes and at controlled heights - you don't think they all have people in them.And if there is a commercial advantage to this technology, why not. Sure there are plenty of safety related problems to solve, but they are solvable. I reckon it will be Fedex/UPS/DHL that'll be on the livery though.Anyone actually looking forward to this, other than me. Or are you still mourning the repeal of the Red Flag Act...

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:37:52 pm
content: Touché Joey.I can see this being feasible on a small scale, I just think that on a bigger scale it's not going to be anywhere near as easy to manage and control as the current system. It all just seems a little ridiculous, not to mention how unreliable it would be.What's doing to happen if the drone carrying Dave's new £10,000 multimeter goes down in a field somewhere and little Johnny finds it?How does the 'leaving the parcel outside your door' thing work? I've never experienced this other than being able to tell the parcel service where to leave it. I know very well that if a parcel was left outside my door it'd be there for no more than 30 seconds. If they started doing that with my packages I'd never order from them again.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 08:37:52 pmThey don't have to deliver everything by drone. I wouldn't expect to see a 100 pound exercise bike delivered that way. But in the interview I saw, they mentioned that 80% of their shipments weigh less than 5 pounds. Many of them are books. I'd expect they wouldn't offer the option of "30 minute delivery" for high-value or bulky items.Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 08:37:52 pmYa, unfortunately that's just what UPS does by default. If you pay extra they will require a signature for residential delivery. Oddly they always require a signature for commercial delivery. Seems to me they have that backwards. But they do it because it takes a lot of time for their drivers to track someone down at residences where people are often away from home during delivery hours.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 08:57:10 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 07:51:53 pmThere are no public air-spaces in the US. The government owns all of it, hence it's illegal to shoot down or at any flying aircraft and can (WILL) result in long-term care for you in a federal pen. (I'm a private pilot)No not public as in owned by people, I mean open areas with people walking about. I'm pretty sure that here in the UK if you fly a drown around town, or even over a railway, road or anything else that isn't an open grass area, you can land yourself in a difficult situation with the cops. I don't know about the US but it seems interesting to me.

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:02:19 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 08:57:10 pmIn US, there's lots of FAA regulations concerning flying over populated areas. Minimum altitudes, restricted airspace, MOAs (Military Operational Areas), dropping stuff out the window.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:03:40 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 08:50:48 pmWhat? No free shotgun target practice? Illegal you say? Like shooting holes into traffic signs? Which never happens in the US, no, never ever.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:03:50 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 09:02:19 pmMinimum altitudes? You're pretty screwed with a little RC drone then aren't you?

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:06:49 pm
content: Eeek. Figures "mashable" would cover this. They love link bait.I sill giggle over their "cell phone in a magazine" video.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:07:56 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 08:50:48 pmThey're also building million square foot warehouses every year. If they decide to spend the money on drones they can afford it.Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 08:50:48 pmModel RC planes fly at low altitudes all the time with no specific FAA per/flight control or authorization. Drones can fly at the same levels as RC planes (and probably have no reason to waste fuel going higher). Yes, there will be some FAA regulations outlined in 2015, but drone users will simply have to abide by those guidlines.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:15:19 pm
content: In reality, how reliable are these things going to be? Especially in wind/rain? Surely the yield isn't going to be as high as it would be using traditional delivery methods?Also, Is this only rolling out to the US?

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:16:58 pm
content: Anything from 0 to1000ft700 or 1,200 ft AGL (above ground level) is "Uncontrolled Space" unless it resides within a controlled airspace such as 5 mile radius around an non-towered field. This allows for crop dusters, RC Fliers and puddle jumpers to not have to file a flight plan.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:19:32 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 09:16:58 pmI see, well that makes things a little easier then.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:21:32 pm
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 09:15:19 pmThose are good questions which I'm sure they're considering. I'd expect they'll have limitations for weather, and that will be an interesting part of trying to integrate them into their system. The goal seems to be targeting "30 minute deliver", which simply won't always be available. So far they're only talking about US.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:26:25 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 09:16:58 pmEven in normal "Controlled airspace" (which includes much of the CONUS), there is no flight plan required unless you are going above 18,000' MSL or crossing an international border or flying in IFR weather. There are more tightly controlled areas such as that around airports which will require radio communication, altitude reporting, and verbal authorization to enter, but no flight plan. By the way JohnnyGringo, I'm a pilot too - CMEI for 25 years and counting

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 09:40:42 pm
content: Quote from: JohnnyGringo on December 02, 2013, 09:32:45 pmNice plane. I fly a 1962 Baron. I didn't make Oshkosh this year, but I did a few years back. People kept getting mad at me because I parked in the "Vintage plane" area (the cutoff was 1965 for that year). Barons haven't changed much in the past 50 years, so people assumed my plane was a lot newer than it was. Some got down right insulting until I told them its age

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:04:46 pm
content: Is it just me, or is there something ironic about a couple of pilots "highjacking" a thread?

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:06:51 pm
content: I feel that this is only going to amount to iphone delivery in major cities.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:08:37 pm
content: Quote from: JoeyP on December 02, 2013, 10:04:46 pm

author: tinhead
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:11:44 pm
content: i don't see any problems with amazon drones legalization, FBI and some texas oilboys will be happy to send a drone here or there, "covered" as amazon drone

author: matkar
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:37:06 pm
content: The idea is not new. A few months ago I've seen a pizza delivery octocopter:http://www.gizmag.com/dominos-domicopter-pizza-delivery/27814/from England if I remember correctly. Probably its not in regular use yet... Anyway it should speed up delivery in urban areas and you can still deliver goods the old way if the weather conditions are not optimal.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:38:14 pm
content: pizza delivery would be epic for high rises if they could just drop it off on the balcony

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 02, 2013, 10:47:38 pm
content: Quote from: Fsck on December 02, 2013, 10:38:14 pmNow the Pizza delivery thing, that really could work. But I wonder how many people wouldn't bother paying the drone and just close the door?

author: MacAttak
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:08:54 am
content: It's pretty much inevitable. While the performance specs might be borderline plausible today, within two years the technology will be plenty advanced for it. Things are moving along really quickly in autonomous multicopter drone tech. I wouldn't be surprised if they are ready for it before the legislation is.Also, regarding the cost... the loss of a $250 (probably all they will cost in the numbers Amazon is likely to buy/build in) is cheap compared to the cost of a single delivery accident. Also, much cheaper fuel costs.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:15:35 am
content: Doesn't matter if they use drones or not - the story gets more people to amazon.com.It's just crazy 21st century marketing at work.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:19:59 am
content: It's not just amazon, here's one from sydney last octoberhttp://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/push-for-liftoff-on-drone-deliveries-in-australia-20131014-2vixx.html

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:37:28 am
content: Ha! Just wait till a kid sticks their hand into the props, it lands by mistake on your kitten, or people just grab the drone and run off with it.It won't work.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:39:35 am
content: In the same way as if a kid runs in front of the UPS van the family sues?Oh, wait... that probably would happen.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 12:44:12 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on December 03, 2013, 12:39:35 amPeople can't grab the UPS van and run off with it though.(or bust it up with a baseball bat)Oh darn - there are so many problems with delivering by drones I can hardly contain myself. It's very forward looking but it ain't gonna happen in the foreseeable future. That's my opinion and I could be wrong.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:23:19 am
content: I foresee an armour plated drone which drops packages by parachutes. But people will still figure out how to get them via nets or careful placement of ladders.The only way I can see this working is the drone works at a high altitude for almost all the flight. It then descends onto the landing pad which is provided by Amazon (as part of the sign up process.) Item deposited then drone returns as normal. This would let them land almost anywhere and also safely as the landing location would be decided by a human.Advantages of this:- Pretty difficult to shoot/hit a target which descends or ascends rapidly (a quadcopter is very good at doing this if given adequate power.) And difficult to shoot at ~1,000ft up. You could shoot it on your ground, but Amazon would know as the address would be registered. (I guess they send robocop or something after you.)Disadvantages:- Cost, extra energy, hitting light aircraft and migrating birds.

author: notsob
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 01:27:16 am
content: I can see another opportunity for wunhunglow products on ebay:Automated "are you feeling lucky" attack drones

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 02:26:24 am
content: You need to see the 60 minutes article in it's entirety. There will be no human operators, so it requires super safety systems (smart artificial retina) to prevent flying into anything. Amazon is thinking 10 mile max radius from distribution warehouses. They also spoke of the green crap, as if electric energy, and the production of these machines will have no eco impacts.Personally I don't see the FAA making rules that they can even begin designing a safe machine too.My past life was avionics design, this is talking "critical to safe flight and landing" systems. This is not relative to the flying machine (as there's no humans on this airframe), but to damage to persons on the ground. How many cameras, processors, and DO178 level A software and DO254 level A hardware (these are RTCA documents, Radio Technical Commission for Avionics, these get called out via a long path from the Code of Fed. Regulations, to FAA TSO, etc. regulatory documents), where the certification will require showing a safety analysis for any single point failure that results in a catastrophic event. The failure rate for this is 1 per billion hours of operation. And try to prove a single processor design has no common mode design flaws (software or hardware), so then you get into dissimilar systems, doubling the design effort. Yes, I've seen triplex systems designed with a single processor implementation, but it was bit slice, and in 1970 dollars was 8 million. It was simple enough to analyze. And that was before all the new regulatory stuff came about. This is fail operational system, relative to flying into any person or property.If the FAA applied this to single engine guys, your grounded. Note they assume the human operator does not want to die, or kill anyone they fly into. Yet that happens, reference the Glasgow pub accident with 9 dead, 3 from the airframe, 6 on the ground. Commercial helicopters are single point failure, with any fault to a tail rotor or main rotor. The Amazon drone will not be so small to have the power storage for a 20 mile flight. So it can do considerable damage in an uncontrolled crash. If you throw a blade, then the imbalance will cause further failure, OK shut that motor down, but what did the thrown blade do. Good luck with making a safe design that can be approved.Before they add the 3rd axis, they would be better off with an autonomous electric delivery vehicle for the big load of boxes, and then use robotic arms on this "truck" to deliver to the address. The smart thing would be a special mail box located at the roadway that is locked. And the delivery system can place parcels. This will go slow with lot's of flashing lights, and if anything goes wrong, it parks itself.It can't be to speed up delivery, but to get rid of humans in the delivery chain.

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:11:07 am
content: They would just get stolen all the time - totally impractical.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:27:37 am
content: Quote from: Jon86 on December 02, 2013, 10:47:38 pmI guess they'll probably make you give them your credit card before it arrives.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:29:00 am
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 03, 2013, 09:11:07 amI'm guessing some sort of always on streaming video and GPS relaying system to at least get a video and location of the crime.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 03:24:06 pm
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on December 02, 2013, 06:49:19 pmAccording to a story someone in the US shot a police drone which was hovering in his back yard. He got arrested but the judge dismissed the case on ground of privacy invasion.Another thought: does Amazon sell adult toys?edit: typo

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 04:36:01 pm
content: Eventually the technology will become cheap enough for the drone to be considered as a disposable, when this happens the delivery will be a one way journey and the recipient will throw away the used drone along with the unwanted packaging.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 05:01:29 pm
content: to all the replys stating how this will be so cost prohibitive, apparently you do not realize that the cost will be passed on to the consumer. look at shipping rates now. something shipped through the post office with an avg 4-5 day delivery time might be $7-10. shipping ups with a 2-3 day might be $20-25 (again, for just a small, light package) then you still have ppl paying $50-70 for overnight. how much do you think "30 min delivery" is going to cost you? i can guarantee you one thing, amazon is not going to be the one absorbing the cost. i would not be one bit surprises to see these 30 min deliveries well in excess of $100 in added shipping costs. at that point, it makes the previous post about the drone being disposable looks very realistic.

author: Jon86
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 06:16:25 pm
content: But that's just hilariously stupid, I wouldn't ever pay more than £20 for shipping, no matter what it is I'm buying. If I buy something online for £500 I expect the shipping to be free, and if I buy something for say £20, there's no way I'd pay more than the cost for shipping.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 07:39:31 pm
content: The price will be whatever the market will bare. My guess is much less than $100, but Amazon knows their market, and is in a much better position to determine that than any of the experts in this thread

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 08:02:55 pm
content: What I don't understand is, why by air?There are a host of problems involved in navigation, safety, midair collision avoidance, avoiding powerlines, trees, dogs, cats, toddlers, etc. These can probably be solved, given enough effort and computing horsepower. But if they can be solved for airborne drones, they can surely be solved for sidewalk-bound robots, as well? The sidewalk-bound robots would have fewer restrictions on weather, payload weight and balance, as well as being cheaper, I'd think. There's a lot less potential for destruction and the associated liability when you keep both your kinetic and potential energy low.People have been fantasizing about fleets of personal sized helicopters or flying cars for decades. They've always been possible but impractical. Ground based transportation has always been much more practical than air transportation for the "last mile" to reach final residential destinations.Has that really changed now?If so, does that mean that personal door-to-door air transportation can be far behnd?

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 08:34:03 pm
content: It's a good thing some of you guys weren't around on a certain day in 1903. I can hear the comments now:"What a stupid idea. Damn thing only flew 120 feet! And hell my buggy is faster!""It'l never fly in bad weather. A little rain will make a mess of it!""How will it ever lift more than one person? Useless!""Costs way to much. Will never be practical because I personally am not willing to pay that much (and surely everyone shares my values)!""What if it runs into someone? It's so dangerous that I simply don't know where to begin listing all the reasons it's not going to happen!""Where will they take off and land the damn thing? Who's going to pay for the massive infrastructure? Fail!""Ah, nothing new here, Clement Ader already did that in France""You guys should just stick to building bicycles!""It was just a publicity stunt to sell bicycles!"

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 08:43:26 pm
content: What if nobody's home? You get a bright yellow box left in your front yard?LOL - That wouldn't last 5 minutes where I live.I could maybe see if Amazon established a community pickup point where the stuff was dropped off and guarded, and no kittens or puppies had their heads cut off by landing drones, but delivery to your front yard? No way is that going to work out. Keep brainstorming Bezos - I'm sure you'll hit a winner sooner or later.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:03:40 pm
content: Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on December 03, 2013, 09:11:07 amNah. They'd just accumulate in student housing, and then return in large numbers at random intervals. Kinda like shopping trolleys.

author: mrflibble
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:07:52 pm
content: Quote from: JoeyP on December 03, 2013, 08:34:03 pmDrones for delivery are agreatidea. Getting stuff to hard to reach places in time of need is a super handy capability. It's just that the amazon use case is probably less than viable.So I'm all for Amazon flushing money into researching the capability to do this properly from a tech standpoint. Then when it turns out to be a crap business proposition, the tech still remains. So gogogo!

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:11:43 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on December 03, 2013, 08:43:26 pmNothing says the boxes have to be bright yellow (except in publicity videos). UPS already drops packages on the doorstep for residential delivery when no one's home, unless you pay extra to require a signature. And ya it's a pain and things do disappear once in a while but they do it because it saves them a lot of labor costs even after covering the stolen packages.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:17:22 pm
content: Quote from: mrflibble on December 03, 2013, 09:07:52 pmThe thing that people seem to be leaving out of the analysis is that Amazon would have no obligation to deliver *every* type of package to *every* possible address. Domino's doesn't deliver to bum-fuck in 20 minutes or less either. Amazon could limit availability of the service to only those locations and packages for which it is viable.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:36:04 pm
content: Quote from: JoeyP on December 03, 2013, 09:17:22 pmi thnk it was already mentioned that the service was going to be offered to ppl living within 10 miles of a distribution center.and domino's hasnt had that 30 min guarantee in years now. its now just a "freshness guarantee", but dont take my word for it, try waiting an hour and a half for a piza some day and bitch to the driver about it. they will tell you.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:49:08 pm
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 03, 2013, 09:36:04 pmSure, that was in the original article. But I'm saying they could limit it a lot more than that. E.G. not to apartment complexes, college dorms or areas with known high crime rates like xrunner described. Heck they could even limit it to commercial addresses if they wanted to. Point being, they could limit it to only those situations that would make economic sense - even if that turned out to be a narrow slice of the overall business. As technology got better, they could widen the slice. I'm not saying I expect it to happen next week or next year, but I do see it as viable and almost certain to eventually happen - but maybe I just watched too much of The Jetson's as a kid

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:52:02 pm
content: Not only would i get my package but i also get 8 spare brushless RC motors and a battery

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 09:56:56 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 03, 2013, 09:52:02 pmdont forget the gps nav system and the cpu board

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 10:25:13 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 03, 2013, 09:52:02 pmAnd somebody will have a way to flash open source code in and ...Just like those AOL floppies years ago (well, some of us are old enough to remember that).

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 10:51:00 pm
content: Quote from: JoeyP on December 03, 2013, 09:11:43 pmOK, make the box any color you want. It won't last long sitting in the front yard in my 'hood.QuoteYep, and that makes them harder to see from the street. They do that all the time at my door. Does the drone place them on the front doorstep, behind that plant or chair you may have sitting there? I don't think so.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 11:10:36 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on December 03, 2013, 10:51:00 pmIt's OK. Your 'hood has already been taken off the list of available delivery locationsBTW, they have been talking about this all afternoon on the business channel today. UPS, FedEx and others have chimed in. Turns out UPS has been looking at this for a while also, but hasn't yet gotten as serious as Amazon seems to be. FedEx wants to convert their entire fleet of freighters to drones. There were representatives from a couple of drone companies as well, who apparently view this as their number one growth opportunity over the next 5 years.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 11:17:14 pm
content: drones? for delivering books maybe.im starting the next wave of delivery practices. im going to open a candy shop and hire a team of midgets to dress up as oompa loopas to deliver the candy to the children.cutting edge shit.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 11:29:26 pm
content: I think the only reason for this story is that the world's largest online retailer Amazon wanted free advertising in the press around the world before the big Christmas season and it worked as everyone brings this story.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2013, 11:31:45 pm
content: I'll tell you another thing that WILL happen if this gets popular, because I know human nature pretty well.People will be popping them out of the sky like some new target practice game with either BB guns or real guns when they get low enough. It will be a real urban gaming fad.Will that be illegal? Sure, but so is breaking the speed limit ...Or if you want a trophy, just order something and when the thing lands, throw a bedspread on top of it. Then take it and hide it. When they ask about it, just tell them you never saw it arrive.I'm telling you, this won't work now. Someday in the far future - but not anytime soon.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 01:27:23 am
content: whole bunch of negative nancys here.omg!!!! somebody's gonna break it!!omg!!! somebody's gonna steal it!!!!lets all go back to medieval times, where theres no technology to worry about breaking or stealing, and you can live in your big castle with your high wall around it to protect you from all the imaginary dragons and monsters out there.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 05:01:19 am
content: The only real problem i see is landing.Amazon could require an onsite visit for landing site approval when anyone signs up to the service and use RTK GPS to land in exactly the right spot.Even with a relativity small number of drone delivers per day it's still going to crash into something like an overgrown tree on a regular basis.For it to work the drone needs some sort of spatial awareness so it can abort the delivery if needed.3D lidar or something equality as complex will be too expensive to actually implement for this job.The mars rover can do hazard avoidance on a 2D level quite well but doing it in 3D is a whole lot more complex.Amazon could reduce some of the problem of landing by requiring users be at home and clear the drone for landing using a text message or something. but its still not a good system unless the drone can detect obstacles itself.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 05:45:57 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 04, 2013, 01:27:23 amWell, you can of course sit there and wait until Amazon's drones will become a reality (i.e. never in your lifetime). Just like some people are still waiting that this will finally happen, and others died over waiting for itSince medieval times and before, even in the stone age, there are clowns who promise you great things. Just look hard at this stone and it will make fire, making gold from lead, an atomic car for everyone, or wide-spread drone delivery. But if you believe in it, now would be the time to invest in it. And by the way, I have a bridge to sell.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 05:51:25 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 04, 2013, 05:45:57 amso thats an excuse to just lie down and die?dont try. dont innovate. dont make waves. dont think outside the box. dont progress. dont evolve. just do the same old shit over and over again, because thats what you know, and thats whats safe.sounds like fun!!!!

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 05:59:51 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 04, 2013, 05:51:25 amNo, it is a valid reason to not believe and not trust every clown, and not wasting your life waiting for things random clowns promise.Quote from: deth502 on December 04, 2013, 05:51:25 amOh dear, this bullshit phrase ... Used to justify any kind of bullshit.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 06:21:51 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 04, 2013, 05:59:51 ambelieve and trust? how so? do YOU work at amazon? do YOU have any vested interests in what they do? will the way they deliver packages IN ANY WAY AFFECT YOU?? what reason do you have to come here and shit all over someone elses idea? maybe its just jealousy. maybe your sitting at home in front of your computer angrily waiting for your next amazon order. maybe its just bitterness. maybe low self esteem. do you need to call other ppl clowns to make your self feel superior?maybe its none of these. idfk.but if you are going to "waste your life" waiting for amazon to deliver your package by a drone, then i think you have bigger problems to worry about.

author: senso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 07:09:28 am
content: Slap a camera and a 5.4Ghz or something along the lines of that, have the drone do almost all the route automagically and them, when its like 20-30m from the delivery spot, have a real person see the camera image and land it safely, and then take off and engage auto-pilot again.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 07:13:34 am
content: Quote from: deth502 on December 04, 2013, 06:21:51 amI think you should take your medication, and maybe there is even an Amazon self-help group somewhere where you could get help. Maybe they even take Amazon clowns babbling about drone delivery.

author: deth502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 07:20:14 am
content: Quote from: Bored@Work on December 04, 2013, 07:13:34 amI think you should take your medication, and maybe there is even an Amazon self-help group somewhere where you could get help. Maybe they even take Amazon clowns babbling about drone delivery.if its self-help, why would you need a group?

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 08:31:55 am
content: QuoteYes, of course the reason they do that is because it's cheaper for UPS to do so than retrying the delivery.It's cheaper for UPS because they don't bear the cost if it goes missing. Yes there's insurance but at a paltry standard figure and then 2% (typically, in the UK at least) of the content value. Somehow, unless they are losing 1 in 50 packages, I suspect that will be a profit centre for them, not a cost centre.And that's assuming that youcaninsure the package - send anything with a CRT and you won't get any cover for transit damage (or, unfairly, loss).So, ultimately the cost is borne by UPS's customers which is why they can be pretty blasé about leaving it on the doorstep.To be fair Amazon aren't in this position because they will bear the loss - so I'd think they would want to minimise the chance.Actually that's one thing which has puzzled me about Amazon for a while - that they don't run their own delivery service. I'd have thought they are easily large enough for that to be cheaper than contracting a third party courier - however good the deal

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 09:15:26 am
content: Quote from: Pippy on December 04, 2013, 09:06:59 amwill be interesting in terms of liability. what happens if your drone fails and injures someone or perhaps drops something that injures them.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 09:36:28 am
content: Same as if a normal airplane crashes and damages property or injures/kills people on the ground.The sight of people in NTSB jackets looking at a crashed quadcopter is pretty funny though.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 11:09:08 am
content: I don't know about civilian aviation rules in other countries, but it's not going to happen here in Denmark anytime soon, as flying with unmanned aircrafts like drones and RC model planes and helicopters anywhere near towns or major public roads is illegal.Civil Aviation Administration - Denmark: Regulations on unmanned aircraft not weighing more than 25 kgQuote

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 01:19:58 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 04, 2013, 05:01:19 amReally? That's the onlyrealproblem you see? Really? Really?

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 04, 2013, 08:02:07 pm
content: Quote from: Pippy on December 04, 2013, 09:06:59 amThey 'll also drop bombs. Literally no one expected 1914-18 in 1913. The ones who prediced it were given medication.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 12:33:10 pm
content: Here's my take on it: Great marketing move, nothing else.Interesting that all this publicity about Amazon hit right at the start of the Christmas shopping season. Good marketing move on their part to get their name all over the place. Probably have no intention of attempting this in the even foreseeable future but spending a million on mock-ups was well worth the millions in free advertising they are getting this time of year.Keep everyone talking about Amazon and the pros and cons on every news service, forum, facebook, twitter, etc. That's their real intention.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 04:51:38 pm
content: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25217378Quotehttp://samy.pl/skyjack/Quote

author: JohnnyGringo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2013, 10:08:41 pm
content: I expect that we'll see fusion reactors or even teleportation before we see Amazon drones delivering packages. In either case, we don't need no stinking drones crowding my skycar.

author: M. András
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 10:37:10 am
content: just found this picture

author: ResR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2013, 03:41:36 pm
content: Quote from: alanb on December 03, 2013, 04:36:01 pmI would take a drone apart and remake the circuit to use it as my own terror drone.

author: Galenbo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2013, 02:21:45 pm
content: Quote from: SLJ on December 05, 2013, 12:33:10 pmI thinks it's a new specialisation in Marketing.Use one of those +2010 "tech" "innovative" words (like 3d-printer, iphone, drone, solar power) and build a cheap whaterver story around it. It must reach the biggest % of people, so ignore the ones who know the difference between voltage and current.

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 06:04:12 pm
content: I'm for innovation and interesting new technologies being more consumer friendly, but this just seems like a stupid idea.Not because it's expensive, not because it might get stolen (people who want 30 minute delivery will make damn sure someone's waiting for it on the landing site). But because what happens when one of these things falls out of the sky and into my windshield while I'm taking a tricky turn/pass, or while I'm driving at 100km?Amazon are making drivers a measurable fraction of a percent less safe just because someone who's rich wants their book or ipod accessory that instant, rather than patiently waiting a day. Even if it's one crash in ten thousand, it'll still eventually happen. It's not like Amazon are helping a space race, or quantum computing, or some exciting new tech! It's just drones and a bit of spacial awareness which can (and has been) advanced in the lab anyway.They're not making the public a small fraction less safe to advance humanity towards better technology, they're making the public less safe so that rich people can get electronics and DVDs faster. Amazon aren't selling vaccines or life-saving equipment. If you're gonna do delivery drones, leave them to those companies instead. Then the riskmightbe worth it.

author: SLJ
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2013, 06:12:39 pm
content: They have no plans to do this. They know it's not economically possible. It's just marketing to get their name out there during the Christmas buying season.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 10:39:39 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on December 04, 2013, 01:19:58 pmThe only real problem from a electronic/programming standpoint, yesDrones can fly (Check)Drones can carry a payload (Check)Drones can automatically and safely take off from a per-designated launch area (Check)Drones can follow a waypoint system through the sky that's been setup for them (Check)Drones can land in an unknown environment without crashing (Fail)All the rest is just legalisation, regulation, convincing people that they're safe etc.. but that's nothing to do with us, this is the EEVbloghehe, they could probably fix the landing problem by having the package parachute down at the customers preset gps co-ord (locked using RTK GPS in the drone)

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 03:25:49 pm
content: Quote from: Psi on December 13, 2013, 10:39:39 amJust legislation? Just regulation? Just convincing people? Those are all real viable problems that must be overcome.QuoteSo? Look at all these threads. What do they have to do with the EEV blog? So really, claiming that points that are valid have nothing to do with the EEV blog doesn't discount their validity.Stolen Cobalt 60Granting Legal Rights for non-humansRemember that time when the world ended?Newly Discovered Greenhouse Gas Is 7,000 Times More Powerful Than CO2Bitcoins and other coinsPeaceful rest for Mr. MandelaWhat's your adult beverage of choice?Good names for hammers...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 08:39:32 pm
content: Quote from: xrunner on December 13, 2013, 03:25:49 pmnot really what i meant

author: manzini
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 13, 2013, 11:52:30 pm
content: seagulls...mmmmmCan dodge drones or viceversa? ..... google cat vs roombaI think the sum of environment, wild life and social risks and drawbacks ruin an idea based on devices that can not be maintained in flight against a fault.needs an antigravity alloy !

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 23, 2014, 10:13:28 am
content: Champagne delivery by Drone in Las Vegas for $20,000http://www.bornrich.com/champagne-delivery-drone-las-vegas-20000.html

author: george graves
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 10:57:22 am
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on June 23, 2014, 10:13:28 amThe article reads...QuoteIf one could calculate how many wells you could drill for clean water in Africa? I'm guessing at least 3 or 4. You have to be a special kinda of ass-hole to order that.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2014, 01:02:00 pm
content: What will happen if I will order a drone from Amazon. Will they ship it with a larger drone or just fly it to my home carrying the manual and charger?

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 02:07:39 am
content: >Drones can carry a payload (Check)Not really. That is the sticking point. They can't carry much more than a tiny camera. Only the huge winged drones can carry much of anything at all. And those are not what amazon is suggesting. The large winged ones are too massive and go too fast and are not maneuverable enough to be safe around people, so they are suggesting copter type drones.But, the trust to weight ratio on the copters like they are suggesting are really tiny and they are worthless for carrying any payload.

author: firehopper
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 25, 2014, 05:37:47 pm
content: Quote from: nixfu on June 25, 2014, 02:07:39 ammy personally built hexacopter can carry roughly 10 lbs max. flight time depends on battery size. but 3000 mah batterys last about 8 mins I think.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 05:49:46 am
content: http://www.dpdhl.com/en/media_relations/press_releases/2014/dhl_parcelcopter_launches_initial_operations_research_purposes.htmlDHL parcelcopter launches initial operations for research purposesFirst autonomous delivery flights by parcelcopter in Europe authorizedRegular flights to the North Sea island of JuistEmergency delivery of medications and other urgently needed goodsBonn, 09/24/2014, 11:20 AM CESTDHL Parcel will soon launch a unique pilot project on the North Sea island of Juist: For the first time worldwide, medications and other urgently needed goods will be delivered to the island at certain times of the day by DHL parcelcopter.

author: Joule Thief
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 06:57:48 am
content: Quote from: AndersAnd on October 02, 2014, 05:49:46 amnote to self: limit emergency needs for medication to convenient times of the day for DHL.It appears to be a nice step forward.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 02, 2014, 03:00:57 pm
content: Is that electric powered or petrol, they will need quite a range on it and contend with high winds.

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2014, 01:28:06 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 02, 2014, 03:00:57 pmElectric.It's mentioned in the pdf document to in the "Material for download" box to the right of the article. You can also hear it and see the rechargeable battery on top of the electonics @0:49 in the video next to the article:TV footage (HD): DHL parcelcopter 2.0 pilot projectMP4 (478 MB)Factsheet DHL parcelcopter 2.0pdf (88 kB)Facts & FiguresDHL Parcelcopter 2.0The DHL Parcelcopter is what's known as a Quadrocopter.It is powered by four identical fixed pitch propellers.All power units continuously generate lift.The DHL Parcelcopter can be steered in any direction by adjusting the speed of the individual power units.The research project between the mainland and the island of Juist involves an automated copter, meaning there is no need for the pilot to intervene.Technical detailsThe electric power unit used in the research project enables a flight time of up to 45 minutes and a range of up to 12 km.The DHL Parcelcopter can carry a load of up to 1.2 kg.The total weight is below 5 kg.The DHL Parcelcopter is particularly quiet in flight – at a distance of 50 m it is about as loud as a man's voice.High reliabilityWeatherproof: The DHL Parcelcopter’s robust construction protects against rain, snow and dust.The copter meets the requirements of the Electromagnetic Capability Directive (EMC), carries the CE marking and is DIN EN ISO 9001 certified.The thermal resistance of the power units has been reviewed by the German Federal Institute for Materials Research and Testing.Safe operationThe DHL Parcelcopter is equipped with state-of-the-art GPS technology.An innovative ground station monitors the unmanned flight operation at all times.A specially developed container ensures the medications are transported safely.Last update: September 2014

author: AndersAnd
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2014, 09:53:10 pm
content: Here's another new use of drones:Serbia-Albania Game Abandoned After Drone Incident Results In Violence http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/10/14/serbia-albania-game-abandoned-after-drone-incident-results-in-violence-video/

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2014, 10:18:15 am
content: QuoteThis is something of a usless comparison as no distance is given for the "man's voice" but if we assume that's about 60-65dB SPL at 1m, then the drone is going to be approx 95dB @ 1m - not particularly quiet if you're close up to it.

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2016, 03:47:35 pm
content: Progress is being made.http://news.sky.com/story/amazon-to-test-drones-in-uk-after-rules-lifted-10512915

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 08:40:57 am
content: Brilliant.. next thing we know is that folks like IS deliver their nail bombs and whatnot using a DHL / Amazon drone.

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 08:13:02 am
content: It has been reported in todays Daily Mail that Amazon has made its first drone delivery. According to the newspaper an Amazon Fire TV Box and a bag of popcorn were delivered to a customer in Cambridgeshire.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 08:48:58 am
content: Quote from: alanb on December 15, 2016, 08:13:02 am

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 11:27:33 am
content: Delivery confirmation?

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 15, 2016, 12:11:58 pm
content: so it seems the customer must have a "drone pod" in his backyard - at least there was one in the videoi think a delivery boy on a electric scooter or even a bicycle would be cheaper and more reliable while performing the same in terms of delivery time.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 05:43:37 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 15, 2016, 12:11:58 pmDepends on which country, just think of minimum wages.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:13:47 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on December 16, 2016, 05:43:37 amif you consider the total cost of ownership - development of the drones, maintenance of those drones, losing drones , drone supervisor's wage...etc... i think a fleet of delivery boys is cheaper, more reliable and more flexible... delivery boy will deliver to ANY address so will easily bring enough cash home to cover his wage... while the drone can deliver to only specific addresses only (drone pad in the backyard) and therefore depends solely on those customers.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:48:25 am
content: Quote from: rob77 onYesterdayat 13:11:58It looks like a printed paper to me.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 10:51:29 am
content: Quote from: rob77 on December 16, 2016, 10:13:47 amFalse dichotomy. If the people with the backyard are willing to pay more, then you have a market for drone delivery. Absolutely no-one is proposing the complete replacement of ground delivery with drone delivery.

author: rob77
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 16, 2016, 11:08:34 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on December 16, 2016, 10:51:29 amdon't get me wrongi don't think the drones are opposing the ground delivery.... my point is the drones are economically not viable because you can achieve comparable delivery times with cheaper means of transport (delivery boy on a scooter - let it be electric scooter to be more green). and the severely limited destinations for drones means less customers and possibly ending in net loss.but on the other hand the drone delivery is a great marketing tool to draw attentionand i think it's all about attention and hype