Digikey keeps flagging me for Export Compliance - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 01:27:02 pm
content: Every single order I've put into Digikey in the last few months has been flagged for Export Compliance checking , which based on a conversation with a Digikey CSR may have to do with my name being "similar" to someone on a deny list for components. What kind of a check is a "similar name check"? This seems pretty error prone to me, and I'm starting to get the feeling that this is some sort of racial profiling. Would I get hit if my last name was "Schwartz" or "Jones"? This is all despite the fact that I'm an American and have ordered many times from Digikey in the past.Has anyone else seen this? Anyone with an Asian sounding last name constantly getting flagged for Export Compliance checks?

author: mikeselectricstuff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 01:30:14 pm
content: Maybe try changing the name on your account?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 03:19:05 pm
content: There are lots of "American" names that match. I have to deal with it for my work too, and I actually only ever had to clear American sounding names.But this should only happen once per account. Once the account (email) is cleared manually, it should not trigger a match again. There is something wrong in DK implementation of the system.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 03:20:26 pm
content: Can you "change" your name? For instance, if you are "John Smith" with a middle name of "Kevin", you could have packages delivered to Mr. Johnathan K. Smith.In most countries, it is not illegal to go by a different name, if the intent is to not defraud or deceive. Presuming there is no reason for you to actually be in violation of export compliance, this should be OK. IANAL though.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 03:28:27 pm
content: There are many reasons for a match other than the name. It might match on the email domain or even delivery address if someone on the list previously lived at that address."similar name" may be just a generic reason for a database match. I'm not sure they are even allowed to disclose the actual reason.The database is way too extensive. It does not only include actual suspects of anything funny, but also government contractors that failed to deliver on a contract, for example.

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:23:44 pm
content: The timing is interesting, as yesterday I just watched Alex from NorthridgeFix complaining that he attempted to order a part from DigiKey for the first time. He usually orders his components from Mouser, but this was a unique part only Digikey had, so he created a business account and placed the order. He got an email that his order was "flagged" for more identification. "Alex" is a nickname he's gone by since childhood, while his real name is something like Hussain Ali. They asked for all sorts of identification. He got fed up and cancelled that order, created a new order under a guest account, and that order was processed and shipped without incident.If that was indeed some sort of profiling/screening based on an ethnic sounding name, not only is it terrible but also obviously not very effective at accomplishing whatever it was trying to accomplish. Makes me really question DigiKey's motivations here.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2023, 05:35:36 pm
content: There is no profiling on the DK side. The database all those systems use is common and maintained by the government or some governmental organization. The match happens on the exact name and for common names the match is going to be very likely. There are a ton of Johns and Mikes in that database too.It is very annoying and mostly causes false positives. Vendors don't want this thing either, but it is mandated.The system is also incredibly dumb, instead of taking into account full information, it matches on individual fields.

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 12:41:30 pm
content: How does this system work in the US? You operate a business and unsuspectingly, one day some guys in black suits knock on your door and force you to addracialcompliance profiling to your ERP-System?

author: ywara
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 01:34:44 pm
content: Everyone who sells anything is obligated to screen customers in this way, except brick and mortar retail I guess?Lots of smugglers on the denied parties list, but there's a ton of businesses there who exported something without a license (i.e. exported something the government really doesn't want you exporting). If you sell something to them, you might be criminally liable if they were to export it.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 01:54:13 pm
content: Quote from: m98 on September 16, 2023, 12:41:30 pmQuote from: ywara on September 16, 2023, 01:34:44 pmThere's a reason a lot of manufacturers have their employees take mandatory export compliance training every year. Ask Keysight :https://www.state.gov/u-s-department-of-state-concludes-6-6-million-settlement-of-alleged-export-violations-by-keysight-technologies-inc/Not casting shade on Keysight: it's very easy to (innocently) get in trouble if you aren't careful, and companies like DigiKey are probably erring on the side of caution.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 09:49:33 pm
content: Quote from: pdenisowski on September 16, 2023, 01:54:13 pmI'd like to explain it away as a matter of "compliance" but compliance to what? I'm buying parts as a US Citizen, sending them to my home address which is very obviously in the USA. So what's the triggering factor other than my name? My first name is about as Wonder Bread / "Mom and Apple Pie" as you can get, by the way.I can't believe this is somehow related to export compliance when it is very obviously being sent to a home address in the USA.Has anyone on here who does not have an Asian or Arab last name gotten hit with the export compliance check at Digikey?

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 10:06:29 pm
content: Note that "compliance" here includes that you will not export the item to a bad place.

author: ywara
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 10:46:00 pm
content: Quote from: frogg on September 16, 2023, 09:49:33 pmI can assure you that people with whitebread names and USA house addresses can and do get dinged and end up on one of the numerous lists that digikey may be screening against.You can use this search and see (maybe) what you're being flagged for.https://www.trade.gov/data-visualization/csl-search

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 16, 2023, 10:58:13 pm
content: A recent post by the US Department of Justice about illegal exports and money laundering from US locations:https://www.justice.gov/nsd/export-control-newsMost of the perpetrators named have Chinese, Slavic, Iranian, or Arabic surnames, but looking back to 2022 I found one named "Robertson", another named "Hunt", a "Griffith", and a disgraced FBI agent named "McGonigal".

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 12:54:50 am
content: Quote from: TimFox on September 16, 2023, 10:58:13 pmI'm not sure I understand what that has to do with me. What's your point exactly?Quote from: ywara on September 16, 2023, 10:46:00 pmI can assure you that neither my name nor address are anywhere in that database.I think some folks who are responding to this aren't getting my point: I don't mind if my Digikey orders get checked against some kind of spook database. What do I care? Go ahead.What I consider problematic is that my name and address are most certainly not in any of those databases, yet Digikey consistently fails to ship my order until I call them and give them info they already have (my name and my phone number), after which I then have to wait a few days until they actually ship the order. What's the point? I even had an order a month ago that literally never shipped from Digikey, just because they failed to contact me that the parts were withheld for reasons of export compliance. I didn't even realize that they didn't ship until I needed the parts for the board I was building. What's even more infuriating is that they ended up shipping the parts for the withheld order after I called them and complained. They apologized, but again: What the heck is this system preventing? Does an angry phone call somehow verify that I'm not a bad guy?The fact that I could order this stuff under an alias makes me realize that this is probably even more obviously racist than I thought it was. I shouldn't have to use a fake name just to buy some common SMD resistors and capacitors.

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 02:45:55 am
content: QuoteYes, you would.https://www.trade.gov/data-visualization/csl-searchNothing of all this is "racial".

author: Kim Christensen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 03:13:02 am
content: Ah, the illusion of security so the politicians can pat themselves on their backs and say, "See we did something!"

author: Njk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 11:48:32 am
content: I do remember how it was a couple of years ago to buy a parts from, say, TI. With every local distributor, the procedure was the same. The customer had to download the form of two pages, to fill the printed form, to sign it, to scan it and to send it back to the distributor. In that form, I'd to identify myself, and to explain how I'm going to use the parts, and to certify that I'm not a sanctioned person and is not affiliated with the sanctioned companies and I will not re-export the parts to the hostile countries. That was for each order, not one time. Quite annoying. It seems logical that the witch hunt finally reached the domestic soil.

author: frogg
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 12:48:09 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on September 17, 2023, 02:45:55 amThis is NOT about that stupid database. This is about Digikey's flagging process. Have you ordered from Digikey and have you been hit with the export compliance check?

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 03:22:33 pm
content: Wild ass guess: By making you jump through those hoops they fulfill some "yup, not a bot" requirement they don't want to build a better solution for.Try a competitor? Fighting the giant faceless corporation to fix a personal assessment of their internal failings is generally a losing battle.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 17, 2023, 11:21:25 pm
content: Quote from: DimitriP on September 17, 2023, 02:45:55 amSo if it's not "racial", it's all fine then?Is being discriminated due to one's name acceptable when there's no proof that you may cause any problem? A real question.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 08:24:56 am
content: On the one hand, Digikey has no obligations to deal with you at all. They are not forced by anything to enter into a contract with you.On the other hand they can get into big trouble with the US government if they enter into a contract with the wrong person.So the choice seems to be easy: Err on the side of caution. They may lose some customers, but as long as they can proove due diligence will likely not get into major trouble with the government.Addendum: That the US apparently mainly just uses names for for this has been an issue for quite some time. I remember reading quite a few stories about people who have "name twins" on the no-fly-list.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 10:03:34 pm
content: The alternative to using names on the US list would be a national ID number or have people enter their SSN.And you already know what the reaction to that would be

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2023, 10:57:46 pm
content: Quote from: Ranayna on September 18, 2023, 08:24:56 amOne of my previous manager's last name was Ali. He told me he was routinely stopped at airports for identity check. That was back in post-911 years.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2023, 10:27:13 pm
content: reminds me of how in ww2 italians had to be on a government list for radio privileges. you had to have a tech basically reduce the reception capabilities!http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=10944

author: DimitriP
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 03:46:11 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 17, 2023, 11:21:25 pmI didn't say "it's fine" . I said it's not "racial". The list of names is racially diverse!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 04:03:51 am
content: A new story, this time about Mouser.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/mouser-export-review/It is a mess no matter where you look.Also, I'm surprised that DK is even talking to the people. In our case we are not allowed to talk to people until export compliance is cleared. So, we can't even communicate the reason for delays.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 04:21:02 am
content: I wonder if this stuff is driven by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, whereby a lot of western chips have turned up in Russian missiles, tanks, etc.A lot of these are trivia like a MAX232 but a lot of them are definitely dual use, or worse.It's been getting a lot of press coverage.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 04:48:52 am
content: Quote from: peter-h on September 21, 2023, 04:21:02 amIt is.Quote from: peter-h on September 21, 2023, 04:21:02 amThe order contents does not matter, the match is purely on the person. You can order a single SMD resistor and still get flagged.The restricted parts were already flagged long time ago.

author: peter-h
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2023, 06:56:15 am
content: I was with Citibank many years ago. Due to having a surname which, being East European (former comm bloc) and almost matching some crazy Arab terrorist, prevented CB doing foreign transfers! They could not inspect the US blacklist; it was a database query only returning Y or N. Stupid system, not helped by a bank with stupid UK staff.But now I buy using my UK company name and nothing has come up. Maybe it is people buying using personal names. They should set up a business name e.g. Joe Bin Laden -> JBL Systems.I get a daily update from Ukraine and the amount of stuff is amazing. Large Altera and Xilinx FPGAs, various TMS320 family processors (Iranians like those for missiles). Russia and Iran will have stockpiled this stuff; it costs nothing on the scale of mil costs. But you can't stop this at all. Anybody can buy it.

author: luudee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 03:02:46 am
content: Quote from: frogg on September 15, 2023, 01:27:02 pmWhy would Dk flag you for export compliance if you are based in the USArudi

author: Veteran68
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 03:07:06 am
content: Quote from: luudee on October 06, 2023, 03:02:46 amBecause that's one way for "agents" from prohibited regions to get the stuff. They buy and have it shipped to a US address, then export it themselves.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 03:07:49 am
content: Quote from: luudee on October 06, 2023, 03:02:46 amThat Russian group based in the USA was buying and re-routing restricted ICs some years back. It is on the seller to reasonably ensure that the parts are not destined for resale.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 02:29:33 pm
content: Quote from: Veteran68 on October 06, 2023, 03:07:06 amIf you have take a yearly course on export compliance, learning how to recognize this scenario is probably about half of the course.

author: KG7AMV
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 06, 2023, 10:36:01 pm
content: I used to export aircraft / avionics and You have a lot of lists you need to check.Denied Personshttps://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/policy-guidance/lists-of-parties-of-concern/denied-persons-listDenied Entityhttps://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/policy-guidance/lists-of-parties-of-concern/entity-listDenied Person Exporthttps://bis.data.commerce.gov/dataset/Denied-Persons-List-with-Denied-US-Export-Privileg/xwtd-wd7ahttps://www.federalregister.gov/denied-persons-specially-designated-nationalsITAR “Dual-Use” Technologies Category 3 ElectronicsEtc.There are a few others also.The feds are are cracking down both digikey and mouser must have been caught in violation of some rule. Not having to enforce or comply with it.With all the sanctions in place people are trying to work around them drop shipping etc.