Aisler.net "Blitz" PCB manufacturing - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 06:40:36 pm
content: I decided to try Aisler.net again for a PCB, they have a new service called "Beautiful Boards Blitz" with somewhat relaxed manufacturing constraints and HASL instead of ENIG finish. It's advertised with a faster turn-around time.- Ordered on January 20th in the afternoon.- Sent to manufacturing on the 21st.- Got shipment notification on the 23rdIf that shipping notification isn't an error, they managed to run the PCB through manufacturing and shipping within 48 hours!That's insane! I'm hoping it's for real, if this turns out to be the new norm, I'll run all my prototypes through Aisler instead JLCPCB for sure.Now I actually need to hurry to order the missing parts!

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 08:05:48 pm
content: It is good if you want to support local manufacturing or have problems importing things. But it is way-way more expensive than either AllPcb, PcbWay or JlcPcb.I just uploaded a simple 2 layer board and PcbWay made it for $5 + $15 shipping.This service shows 84.39€ just for manufacturing. Even if I mange to exclude VAT, it is still a lot more.Also, PcbWay has basically the same turnaround time.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 08:28:31 pm
content: Quote from: thinkfat on January 23, 2020, 06:40:36 pmFor my last two orders from JLCPCB, they consistently made two-layer HASL boards in under24h. Routine order without surcharge, four different boards, some with matte-black soldermask which was advertised as "may take a bit longer". The first order did include another board with ENIG finish, and that one did take a tad above 48h.Hence I'm not that impressed by Aisler's speed. Of course you have to add a few days for shipping from China -- 3 to 4 calendar days for DHL in my experience. Lets see how quickly Aisler gets the boards to you, they might have an advantage there.

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2020, 09:19:33 pm
content: I typically have small boards, usually smaller than 100x100mm which is the maximum for a JLCPCB special. In my typical size range, Aisler is at least in the ballpark of JLCPCB. Not a huge difference.This particular board was 94x36mm, 26€ from Aisler including VAT (and a 2€ KiCAD donation) and shipping.The same board from JLCPCB - around 20€ or so shipped with DHL Express.The board from JLCPCB - ordered on Nov. 25th last year, arrived December 2nd. They are really fast and this was my main reason of preferring them over Aisler most of the time.I do have a bit of an issue with JLCPCBs quality lately. The last two boards I had made by them had a terrible quality solder mask. It came off of the PCB on a slight touch with the soldering iron or slightly careless application of hot air. Quality has dropped there. I didn't have this issue for most of the boards I made with them over 2019, just those last two runs were sub-standard. You may think it's not a big issue, but these are prototypes, so you'd expect them to be exposed to some rework action while you work out the kinks.The next potential issue is import VAT. JLCPCB is only cheap if I meticulously keep the total payment below 25€. Higher than that I'll get billed 19% import VAT _and_ an additional handling fee by DHL. Had I added another board to the batch it might have juuuust worked out, or maybe not. Aisler being within the EU "Single Market" has no such problem.

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 10:11:31 am
content: Update:The PCBs arrived the next day. That's a pretty decent turn around time for a local manufacturer.BUT:Their "Blitz" profile doesn't support ANY elongated holes. Not just no internal slots (I can live with that). No non-circular through-hole pads either!Their Gerber viewer didn't show it but the PCBs arrived faulty, with just a single hole drilled where a slot should have been. I took them up on their "Rendering Guarantee" and they're remaking the PCBs now in "snail mode".I'm not quite getting this. Sure, milling out long internal slots requires a different tool and possibly a router instead of a robotic drill (though the difference is not clear to me right now). But don't all prototype houses "cheat" on this and just drill repeated holes instead of actually routing the slots? How high are the panel stacks they usually drill at the same time? I guess for Aisler it means 3 panels but I'm not sure.PS: drilling out oblong holes is called "nibbling", apparently, and it's a common technique.

author: PlainName
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 04:33:34 pm
content: QuoteIs there some magic technique? Pretty sure that trying to drill half-off material leads to drill breakage pretty quickly...[quick google later] Seems it uses a special drill head, so not quite as simple (hence cheap) as first appears.

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 05:12:59 pm
content: All fine, but their review process should catch stuff like that. Especially since they guarantee that your boards will look like what their Gerber viewer displays. I remember I had another board last year that I wanted "blitzed" but ended in the Snail queue. I asked about what happened but never got a response. I figure now they silently put it in the the regular queue instead of the Blitz queue. They're not very good with communication.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2020, 10:38:47 pm
content: Quote from: thinkfat on January 27, 2020, 10:11:31 amIts the same type of tool you'd use to route out the outside of the board. Most proto places that I've seen (jlcpcb/allpcb) will properly route the slot.Probably the stacks are 3-5pc high or so.Its just a cost differentiator for them IMO, the actual cost of producing the board is not really much different.However, if you are routing through copper (for castellations) that might make a bit of a mess, so I can see you might want to charge more.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 10:19:05 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 23, 2020, 08:05:48 pmToo bad that in this moment of global flu crisis many services are being stopped. Even if the official date is 10th February, some of our suppliers are already pushing it to the 17th.It's like we are back in the dark ages of a few years ago. I have a couple of 4 layer prototypes that will cost about 150 euro each for single, 200+ for two or more boards, instead of 40 euro per five boards at JLC.And then i saw aisler that will make three boards for about 90 euros.Should i go with it? I've seen only a few, mixed reviews

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 11:04:25 am
content: Quote from: JPortici on February 04, 2020, 10:19:05 amYou don't have that much to lose at 90 Euros, so I would give it a try just for the learning experience. Bear in mind that you are not alone, so this may be a time where Aisler sees more orders than usual and might be less responsive than in typical months.

author: thinkfat
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 11:58:13 am
content: The quality of the PCBs from Aisler is certainly good. Solder mask and especially silk screen is much finer than with JLCPCB.There have been some reports of tool strikes and I did see something like that on one of my PCBs, too, but they were all fine functionally.Of course the trap they set up for me with regards to oblong holes and their "Blitz" profile didn't go well with me but apart from that hiccup, no complaints.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 01:44:20 pm
content: Haven't ordered from them yet but already hate them. Tried since yesterday evening, wasted many hours. It often does not recognize board outline, but even if it does, forget about slots. WTF is their Gerber viewer. It's a pure piece of shit. Even if you name gerber files according to their naming scheme (which BTW does not have mechanical layer for some stupid reason). And Outline layer should include outline only per their instructions (where to put slots then), but even simple square often does not work. it often recognizes layers improperly, for example paste layer as internal layer (and no option to manually change). Export per their proteus instructions - fuck you, we won't recognize it properly. Out of 4 of my boards only one worked properly, one which did not have any slots.All of that would be fine, if there was option to manually enter size and proceed further. But no, you are effing stuck. Oh and their stencil has a catch, they reduce everything by 15%, no option to opt out. And you'll only find it if you dig further into stencil specs description.BTW this is not about blitz particularly which does not support slots but process is common for everything.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 02:30:46 pm
content: Somehow managed to make slots work on outline layer though it did not before. Paste layer is still recognized as internal layer though. Deleted it and seems fine so far.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 02:46:08 pm
content: Hmm. Files I uploaded earlier now show slots as well. Was it some website glitch which just got resolved? Still no luck with files made according to their proteus instructions though.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 02:54:23 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on February 04, 2020, 02:23:45 pmDone this naming scheme, and it works on first try including paste layer! Unlike their own naming scheme.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 04, 2020, 05:36:00 pm
content: Finally made an order. During checkout it says write to f..x@aisler.net if you are business, nowhere to enter VAT number. Then I go into account settings and I can enter VAT number there. I already finished writing to Felix by then, just did not click to send. Also although Blitz service supposedly does not support elongated holes and even for slower HD service accepts 0.7 mm min, it accepted 0.65mm just fine for both Blitz and HD services. And even properly displayed 0.65 mm as minimum elongated hole size within design.Dunno what to think about them. Maybe they are fine service... if you completely ignore any instructions and specs they have on their website.