Wireless Charging (Freakin') Roadways!!!  Argh!!! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 02:06:00 pm
content: Wireless Charging Roadways!Is this another version of the "SOLAR Roadways" debacle all over again? See the following video from CNet's Road Show that came out this past week. They feature some "pilot project" (sound familiar) for dynamic inductive charging which is basically placing inductive chargers in your road while you drive over it to charge up your car battery, helping people with "range anxiety" from electric cars be more comfortable to adopt the technology.OK, I don't know how to even BEGIN to call B.S. on this thing but I will leave it up to the forum because it just makes me soto see government tax dollars being spent on Solar Roadways, now this idiotic idea, and so on. Dave, perhaps you can make a video showing calculations and discussing all of the problems with installing this into roads and highways.I can't believe it!

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 02:12:12 pm
content: Found some links:Bottom of page 6 (or actually page 9 of the PDF file):https://www.codot.gov/programs/roadx/roadx-champion-team/aecom-roadx.pdfOther links:https://www.codot.gov/programs/roadxhttp://www.aecom.com/Sounds like the "Dynamic Wireless Charging" pilot is some component of a much larger RoadX engineering project by AECOM. I'm not sure what the other parts are but this is who I believe is doing this, in Colorado for the CODOT.The PDF file linked above gives some numbers:$1.25 Million/mile for inductive roadway, and they mention a rolling contact system for $125k/mile. They give an project consisting of 1 mile of inductive and 6 mile of contact roadway for $2M total. There are likely other numbers that can be pulled from this, but we still don't know a lot of things like the efficiency, how speed affects charging, weather, whether you have to be exactly over the center of it, height of car, how cars will be "retrofit" to even allow this to work (they will need an inductive receiver underneath their chassis)... Just so much to assume but still should be possible to do a rough calculation. But something tells me it's Bull$#!T that aside from paying for the AECOM engineers to work on something that may pay them for some research and development, the results will amount to nothing practical.Here, why don't they just do this for cars....Or this...

author: iainwhite
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 03:05:53 pm
content: I doubt the Govt will want to fund schemes like your 2 pictures as they use a totally "un-cool" wired system.Maybe if people could buy a U-beam dish that they stuck on to their car roof via a rubber sucker mounting? That would be really great for safety as you would have to stay below 20mph to avoid having the dish blow off the roof.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 06:46:17 pm
content: Putting electromagnets in the road is stupid, it could fry small electronics like watches or even pacemakers at the power required to charge a car.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 07:57:24 pm
content: The cost alone is staggering, but even if they did manage to install the wireless charging pads in the road, you have the same issue again with maintenance and construction paving and tearing up roads. It is just too large a maintenance issue to be practical and sustainable. Burying this stuff in asphalt or concrete is just ridiculous!!!For a fraction of the cost, they can outfit "fast charging ports" in gas stations across the country. They already have a broad distribution, they have electrical supplies going to them, they are designed to be easily accessible from major routes and suburbs. Gas stations could sell the electricity like they do gas. They could eventually recoup their costs but also provide "value-added" services to the EV market while people stay there for the needed time needed to charge up.Linking these charge port stations to some app would also allow EV owners to map their route through areas with the chargers and estimate the time needed (based on charging, number of stops needed, distance, etc).Why does the government give money and lucrative contracts to these companies to do these absurd pilot studies? They do not care about taxpayer money! They have budgets that need to be completely used (or else diminished in future years if they keep any surplus rather than be rewarded for being efficient and smart). They have no understanding of basic engineering concepts and more importantly, do not consult 3rd party engineers (who should be paid independently for unbiased assessments) for consultations on whether something is feasible or not. Hence government agencies which are given "x" amount of money per year squander it on stupid things that look good for publicity and make catchy "new tech innovation" sound-bytes for local papers and TV news..... to make the lay public think they are progressive and looking at cool and high-tech solutions for them to use in the future.I'll come up with my own design....Photoinductive Charging Roads!Yes, you heard it here first folks! Install an array of photodiodes on the underbellies of your EV and install HIGH INTENSITY FREAKIN' LED LIGHTS in the road pointing up at your car! Now you can charge your car while you drive over the lights in the road by having your photodiodes induced by the lights! Even better, rather than waste energy lighting up ALL the LED's in the roadway at once, have them "sense" when your car is above and only turn on the LED'S immediately in front of the car and turn them off as your car passes over the LED's. Then it will only illuminate the underbelly of your car at the time you are above them. The longer you stay over one spot, the longer it will charge up your car. Brilliant! (no pun intended).

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2017, 08:26:56 pm
content: Quote from: edy on November 16, 2017, 07:57:24 pmI raise you by photonic induction charging roads! We're going to install 1 MV tesla coils all along the road and arc the energy into the cars through the air.But to be serious, the tightly coupled charging system for city busses at bus stops kind of makes sense, you can dump enough power into a bus to get to the next stop in the half a minute it stops to pick up people. But why are we pushing resources into this stuff if we could far more efficiently invest it in public transport infrastructure? Nothing wrong with (underground) light rail supplemented by a very dense network of busses if it's well funded and maintained.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 01:35:58 am
content: I've seen this somewhere before...

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 08:46:27 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 17, 2017, 01:52:34 amI have done some research into electric roads & public autonomous podcars. see image .pod-cars are slow as golf carts. because they are just 40kmh autonomous golf carts with automatic doors.electric vehicles will always have a battery level problems with out charging on the move.it looks like induction on the move is way too inefficient. and the large pick-up coils too heavy for most electric vehicles.making allowances for vehicle ground clearances. makes electric induction way too inefficient.electric roads will work as electric rail for podcars or electric vehicles that have dual modes.electric vehicles that have dual road/rail capability. electric taxis & public autonomous transport podsdual road/rail capability will work, also electric rail is very efficient and safe between A and B as the type of highway express lane.for electric vehicles that have road/rail capability. is also the benefits of battery charging on the move at upto 150kmh.to have road/rail capability on a road vehicle requires flanged wheels on the inside of the wheel rims.as rails must be at the same level as the roadway and also the wheel radius of both rail flange, and road Tyre.must have the same rotational speed at the outer radius. planetary gears are needed in the wheel hubs. so the two partsof the wheel, so both rail flange, and road Tyre can have the same rotational speed. but also have shared drive and brakes systems.power is supplied to moving electric vehicles on the rail expressway with a continuous overhead conductor running along the tracksuspended from poles or towers or from structure or tunnel ceilings.a robotic arm on the roof of the electric vehicle is the overhead power conductor. this robotic arm retracts whan in road/battery mode.the transition from road to rail-expressway is period of transition by a ramp. the road Tyres are lifed of the road as the railscontact the rail flanges on the wheels.battery charging starts and the vehicle gos into 100% autonomous mode all while on the move.two or more Rail gauges can be use on rail expressways but no railroad switchs.so battery mode is how vehicles switch between electric expressways.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 10:57:02 am
content: For this much effort, you could just as well make the road move.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 06:09:42 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on November 17, 2017, 10:57:02 amok keeping it simplethe vehicle must retain minimum 100 mm 12 inches.ground clearance which ismeasured between any part of the vehicle and the ground by law.dynamic induction leveling with autonomous steering when in or on the charging lane.vehicle ground clearance is set by law. but induction charging require minimum clearance of less then 10mm or 1 inch.for maximum induction to take place. this is why dynamic motorized leveling is needed on the electric vehicles floor pan pick-up coils.a system of linkage with motorized hinged joints lets the pick-up coils skim the the surface of the induction charging lane.magnetic line following on one side of the charging lane is uesd by the vehicles steering when charging.to keep the vehicle on track.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 06:20:41 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 17, 2017, 06:09:42 pmLow riders you say...Oh no, a speed bump!Oh no, debris!Oh no, a pothole!Oh no, roadkill! (SPLAT)

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 06:50:42 pm
content: Quote from: Cyberdragon on November 17, 2017, 06:20:41 pmI find it amusing just to see if a square peg will fit in a round hole.admit my mistake with metric vs imperial, at least I did not launch a rocket with the wrong one.electric vehicles are like big kids toys.

author: glarsson
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 07:00:31 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 17, 2017, 06:09:42 pmWhat kind of measurement is "100 mm 12 inches" and "10 mm or 1 inch"?12 inches (305 mm) seems like a large minimum clearance.

author: Fgrir
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 07:12:42 pm
content: Quote from: glarsson on November 17, 2017, 07:00:31 pmIt is that kind of "linear thinking" that makes engineers wholly unsuited to developing these new technologiesWe need creative dreamers who can see past the limits of physics (and units conversion) and invent a new and better world for us...

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 07:58:41 pm
content: here in Adelaide the metro, our buses - Adelaide O-Bahn buswayThe O-Bahn track is made of concrete; it is elevated above ground because of the poor quality ofalluvial soils along the River Torrens, the buses are diesel or LPG gas.if one was to electrify the O-Bahn buses, how would you do it. as the Adelaide Metro trains are now electric.dynamic electric vehicle induction charging on the track, as buses do not have time for sitting around idle doing nothingwhile charging batteries. so induction charging on the track is how you would do it.and as induction charging is about minimum clearance and maximum induction efficiently.however we do not have a shortage of diesel or LPG gas. but we do have a shortage of electricity. so this may not happen.a final from me

author: The Soulman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 17, 2017, 08:46:22 pm
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 17, 2017, 07:58:41 pmFirst get your electricity shortage sorted, you guys have plenty of surface area for large pv systems windmills storage (pumped hydro, hydrogen, etc.).Second: your crazy buses are a perfect candidate for a overhead line system, add a battery that charges while on the "track" and you don't have to put lines in residential areas.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 18, 2017, 02:51:48 pm
content: How about a Local Railway Tram?Thw can go up to 100km/h and operate 100% emission free (if the not get powered by Coal).In Vienna (and in some City in Romania?!) the World first tram operate with the lowest floor in the World:

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 06:06:07 pm
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on November 18, 2017, 02:51:48 pmthat tram with the lowest floor in the World.like to see how they got the tram floor articulation to work! the bendy bits.as for wireless charging roadways. its a work in progress IMO.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 06:30:02 pm
content: If done right an electric toll route system would be cool, but NOT wireless. Something like the trains use like posted above. Make it a standard so that all cars are compatible. Maybe overhead is not the way to go as it would be awkward, maybe something like slot cars, though snow/ice would be an issue. Essentially it would be something that some highways could have and you would pay a small fee to use it (basically to cover cost of electricity/maintenance). It would basically extend your range. Though more I think about it, any money that goes towards this stuff would probably be better off going in better/electric public transportation.Perhaps a ground ferry system. Basically an electric train to efficiently travel long distances where you can park your car in it. That way you don't need to design a system to work with cars, you design it to work with that particular train. There would be chargers onboard to also charge cars. Long stretches of highways could have these as an option. But that does not sound as cool as "wireless charging roadways".

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 07:51:17 pm
content: Quotesomething like this:

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 09:40:01 pm
content: Yep pretty much what I had in mind, just needs to make it easy for a typical driver to drive it on (or they could have people there that do it for you) and then you just ride in the car while your car also charges. Or there could be a separate passenger cab with small restaurant etc to be more comfortable. Basically this would be for traveling super long distances and save you a lot of driving. Like there could basically be a couple large loops within the country. It would not really be that much faster, just more convenient.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 19, 2017, 10:01:16 pm
content: The ÖBB Shout down many Rail/ Car routes because it cost to much.The Price are insane. If you travel with a small Family its cheaper to drive by Car and Sleep in a Hotel than take the Train. The are from 66€ to 149€ just for the Car depend on the Route.The Night Train cost on the Slepper start:Single: 129€Double: 79€/ ppTripple: 69€/ ppdepdend on the Route.So a Single Family would pay ~300€ Oneway for Car Transport and Sleeping Car.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 06:52:14 am
content: Quote from: jonovid on November 17, 2017, 07:58:41 pmGees, you'd want to be careful steering that thing. It seems it'sjustwide enough for the bus.

author: Gromitt
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:33:39 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on November 20, 2017, 06:52:14 amIt is just wide enough, and the bus steers itself.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 20, 2017, 10:58:30 am
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on November 19, 2017, 10:01:16 pmI have no idea how could anyone afford to go anywhere with train in Germany and Austria.Ticket from Ostend to Arlon and back, 300km, 23 EUR, doesn't matter when.Ticket from Cologne to Kalsruhe, 300km, starting 40EUR (only if you travel at night), up to 189 EUR. You need to be on that train.You are obviously doing something wrong.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 01:26:02 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on November 19, 2017, 06:30:02 pmyou might be interested inWireless Power Receiver Enables Compact and Efficient Contactless Battery ChargingDesign of 3.3 kW Wireless Inductive Power Transfer System with 95% Efficiency Over 10 cm Air Gap

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 11:18:11 am
content: Quotefor the Car Transport?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 11:29:18 am
content: Quote from: Lord of nothing on November 22, 2017, 11:18:11 amNo. I was just pointing out how expensive German and Austrian rail, in general.There is no car transport service here.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 22, 2017, 11:34:47 am
content: The Trains who operate during the Day are not that pricey even when you book in advance.At the moment there are no Car Transport Trains during the Day anymore.So you have book a Night train for Car Transport and the are very pricey.During Railway station renovation many Car Ramps got shut-down so there are just a Handy full Station where cars can put on a Fright car.

author: jonovid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 20, 2018, 11:40:14 pm
content: wireless charging forever batteryandhttp://www.ossia.com/cota/Long rangewireless power delivered without cables, batteries, line-of-sight, or charging padsis this safe? been irradiated by 2.4 GHz

author: janekm
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 21, 2018, 02:18:16 am
content: It's not impossible to have "regular" rechargeable electric buses. You just need to have half of them on charge at any one time:https://electrek.co/2017/12/28/shenzhen-electrifies-entire-public-transit-fleet-electric-buses/The buses are actually much more comfortable to ride than the predecessors due to the much smoother acceleration. Shenzhen bus drivers seem to think they are race car drivers, the city installed GPS trackers on the buses to verify they stay within speed limits

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2018, 11:53:29 pm
content: There's something about the phrase 'solar roadways' that brings out the Stupid in people.Solar roadways - dumb idea.Solar wireless charging roadways - dumbness squared.But even the critics seem to have caught the Stupid virus. Feast your eyes on the techno-idiocy in this article:http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/experts-electric-highways-that-charge-cars-on-the-go-through-wireless-technology-will-bathe-passengers-in-cancer-causing-electropollution/No, not the 'cancer-causing electropollution' part. That does have some basis. It's gems like these:"all wireless devices emit a type of electromagnetic field (EMF) known as radio frequency radiation.""the method ... involves the wireless transfer of power using very high frequencies of around 1,000 watts (in megahertz-scale frequencies)"

author: Beamin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2018, 12:12:12 am
content: Quote from: iainwhite on November 16, 2017, 03:05:53 pmPM me and I will set up the kick starter. It could feature "nano quantum level" technology!!!A rolling contact system? That must work great in salt water which is half the countries roads for 4 months a year.What other non problems can we solve using dated technology? This how this country is going to stay ahead of the curve vs countries like china. Why don't we just give this country to them? Get it over with.

author: JMcLaren
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 30, 2021, 03:11:46 pm
content: That didn't hold up well. Now you are taking issue with Oak Ridge National Labs (they have a pretty decent track record of making shit happen).Wireless charging roadways with 97% efficiency - anything is possible if you throw enough engineering talent at the problem. Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is making her state the first to test such a system.https://www.ornl.gov/blog/going-wireless-better-vehicle-charging

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2022, 01:07:41 am
content: Quote from: JMcLaren on December 30, 2021, 03:11:46 pmAny dumb politician can be convinced by enough buzzwords and wankery. Let them waste their money and see how long they keep claiming "97%" efficient.