my battery gate - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2015, 08:17:39 am
content: Imagine if you twist the two batteries and you change the input, -+ is 1 +- is 0.this gate is (from the left top pole on the 2d schematic, the right side (-) of the bottom right battery.) ->...010.101.01its an and+nor gate.and its a useful one too!It actually requires no diode, just a cross connection, but the diode is in there just to constantly power a side on (+) with the deactivation side off (0 volts), just for kicks. the left side is inactive on the gate because its a rejector, the right is constantly on in any combination so its not needed.I traced this diagram then I slapped myself on the forehead when i realized you just wind the batteries in recharge mode!To get and and nor by themselves you just compare to a constant source of - and +, and then you do the bipolar gate again and you get nand and or.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 06:08:33 am
content: this schematic ands, nors, nands and ors 2 bits, -+ 1, +- 0.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 10:37:48 am
content: Say what?

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 10:46:47 am
content: Quote from: Delta on June 12, 2015, 10:37:48 amI thinkLOLWUTis the word you're looking for. O0

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 12:41:09 pm
content: Alternatively,u wot m8?Learn how to draw a schematic and perhaps we'll actually understand what you're trying to say here... but so far it looks like you've just reinvented some sort of bipolardiode logic.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 10:31:43 pm
content: its all really fuzzy in my head so far. but im trying to make a computer without semiconductors - then i can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch.So the schematics are bad, but its the concepts behind them.That circuit I drew doesnt work, I get shock back from the constant battery. (it just constantly feeds to itself.) But now I know, thats the main thing.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 11:07:50 pm
content: God man that guy is having an anuerism, stay off the cold and flu.... or itll happen to you.I feel a warning to myself not to think im that special when i get it done.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2015, 11:58:52 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 12, 2015, 10:31:43 pmThe basic building block of all logic is NAND or NOR gates. From these gates you can produce any type of logic circuit, including memory devices, adders, counters, etc. Note an NAND gate is an AND gate followed by an inverter (it is not the same as an AND gate with the inputs inverted -- that is actually logically equivalent to an OR gate.)Using diodes alone, it is possible to produce AND and OR gates. However, it is not possible to produce an inverter gate, which converts logic low to logic high and vice versa. The reason being is that you need some kind of amplification stage to make this work. This is usually implemented with transistors or other three-terminal semiconductor devices (but you can infact implement it with inductors and produce "magnetic logic")Without an inverter gate, you will never make a "terrahert" computer. If you can find someway to make an inverter without an amplifier, you will deserve some kind of Nobel prize or something...

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 12:20:44 am
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 12, 2015, 11:58:52 pmAn AND gate with the inputs inverted is a NOR gate. A NAND gate with the inputs inverted is an OR gate.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 01:05:40 am
content: If you go through a gate, invert inputs before the next gate, its the equivilent of inverting the output of the gate you just went through. so inverting the input is all you need.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2015, 12:39:03 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 12, 2015, 10:31:43 pmYou may think anyone who says "a terrahert" is an idiot.But no, after some research on the information superhighway, we find that one hurt = a kick in the tecticles. One killer hurt = 1000 hurts. But this guy "can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch." He obviously forgot to switch the electric fence on first before having a leak.Who "hertz" is named after... "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz".As for trying to make a computer without semiconductors, here are some ideas...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hollerithhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2015, 04:09:33 am
content: GK thats what I said. FOLLOWED by an inverter.

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 12:14:21 am
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 14, 2015, 04:09:33 amand how does one make an inverter without any active devices?

author: suicidaleggroll
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 01:27:59 am
content: Quote from: Delta on June 15, 2015, 12:14:21 amEasy, just swap the terminals on the battery!

author: lapm
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 05:04:42 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 12, 2015, 10:31:43 pmYou do realize that diode is semiconductorOr maybe you want to try build one from relays of vacuum tubes?And to make teraherz capable computer takes more then just ignoring active devices, you do need transistors in form or another to build effective computer. Trust me, people lot smarter them me or you are studying these things how to make faster computers...

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 09:24:24 pm
content: I just thought of something. I think im just making connection tables, and of course you need transistors to drive them, and me switching a battery is enacting a mechanical switch.I think my setup will be not or not or, and then ill be able to do everything except continue my state, and the whole computer is run off truth tables.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 09:57:35 pm
content: Ranch, Two ideas that might be of inspiration for transistor-free computing:1. Relays (yeah, old school). Normally open and Normally closed contacts allow you to invert signals.2. (And much more interesting), is an all-diode design, using LEDs and photo-diode pairs to do the switching.Please excuse my poor ascii art - all the diode symbols are photodiodes:Code:AND GATE5V ----|>|----|>|-----<output LED here>--resistor--- GndOR GATE+--|>|--+5V --+ +----<output LED here>--resistor--- Gnd+--|>|--+NANDs and NORs can be made too - that is a bit of an exercise for you.By putting the output LEDs shining into the photodoides you should be able to compute. If you were to use 540nm sensitive diodes and the matching green LEDs, the you could actually watch it and debug it visually.So there is what seems to be an almost workable idea for a diode-only hybrid optical computer for you to experiment with.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:13:48 pm
content: I didnt think of that! thats cool. So you can switch with light, whats the speed like?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:24:48 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 15, 2015, 10:13:48 pmPhotodiodes and LEDs CAN be fast... but to make photodiodes fast, you can't use them as forward biased diodes. You need to amplify the photocurrent, which is a few microamps.(To do this, you'll need a transistor... or some kind of amplifier circuit...)

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:32:56 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on June 15, 2015, 10:24:48 pmQuote from: hamster_nz on June 15, 2015, 09:57:35 pm

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:53:14 pm
content: Back on transistors just for a tick, I look at transistor designs and one thing ive noticed is they use switches talking to switches.Wouldnt you have less transistors (by about half) if you kept current constant on one switch side, and let the other pass it through? thanks alot hampz for not joining in with the kill noob mob...

author: Delta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:54:29 pm
content: How about using pint glasses?A full one represents a binary 1, and empty a binary zero.By pouring them back and forth (with the kitchen sink as GND and kitchen tap as Vcc as needed) in accordance with a truth table, you could easily create the needed gates, without being hindered by the switching speed of transistors. Terrorhurts here we come!

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 10:57:40 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 15, 2015, 10:53:14 pmBut how do you make a constant current source without using an transistor? If you just use a resistor then it would look something likehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor%E2%80%93transistor_logic- very old school and very power hungry.

author: ranch varment
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2015, 11:14:38 pm
content: Delta - yes I know I think I was more running a computer over in my head, rather than it being able to actually work, but I guess that was just me trying to figure it out.But did you know this? A neural network is a bunch of and groups, cause I can actually program them quite proficiently, as Ive been doing for the past 13 years, and you can put and groups into pure conducting lines and it forms an electronic truth table from shared inputs to single output per group not or not or!I dont think so... and I dont think you can even comprehend it to even think im not an idiot.Hampz->I actually mean with a transistor.I just mean if youve switched a transistor on a keyboard bit, theres no point orring it with a transistor again, because the currents already been switched.If you were anding it, between 2 keyboard bits, youd only need 1 transistor, because its already been switched off and on both sides?Im looking at these standalone transistor circuits like they are the most wasteful thing ever...The rtl looks interesting tho, but all the resistors must heat it up a bit.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2015, 10:56:59 pm
content: Quote from: ranch varment on June 15, 2015, 11:14:38 pmRTL, Transistors, photodiodes... they are semiconductors. Forget them. I though your requirement was to design a computer without semiconductors.Scope creep. The way you are heading you will end up plugging in a power cord into a PC and saying "eureka!"