Component distributors taking ESD precautions? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2022, 08:35:59 am
content: Hi,How can it be assured that component vendors are using ESD precautions when they pick eg FETS?Please imagine, a staff member has coffee break in a few minutes, and they have to pick 2 FETs out of a tube and package them up for a customer……is that picker going to get the ESD wrist strap (properly) on and be sure the ESD heel strap is (properly) on? Why bother, who’s going to find out it was them that ESD damaged the FET?......they can just say the circuit was faulty.I mean, most companys you go to don’t bother with ESD.Ive just had a UCC28070A TSSOP20 dead out of the box…..replaced it and circuit was fine….now ive had a FET blow up.How many companys do you go to where benchs have rubbish piles under them where people have just swept trash under it? (rather than shovel it , and take it to the skip)....and we think this sort of thing doesn’t go on with ESD precautions too?……And does it even matter in the West?....Doesnt the West get most of its electronics done in the Far East…even more reason why this ESD_bad activity could be going on unabated/un-noticed.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2022, 08:56:02 am
content: Is that the same TSSOP20 device for which you developed a new method of soldering? One solution to put your mind at rest would be to get "burn-in sockets" and test your device before installing them. E.g.,https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/electronics-components/interconnect-products/breadboards-test-clips/test-burn-in-sockets/Cheaper ones and copies are available.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2022, 10:57:32 am
content: It's not uncommon to see ESD areas equipped with a turnstile linked to an ESD test station, no footstrap that functions, no entry. I would suspect Farnell etc operate at this level, in addition to having all other sensible precautions and treatments. The number of faulty semiconductors we see is really really tiny, almost every fault we encounter is a manufacturing defect or ham fisted use of a test probe etc. In fact the only notable instances of dodgy semi's we've ever seen have come during periods of shortage like this from parts sourced outside of distribution. In those cases we've had regulators that don't all function (looked like they had been very well "reconditioned"), MCU's that are missing their ICP bootloader and really really old stock that needed a serious baking to avoid popcorning. I don't think we've seen any indication of poor ESD handling practices, however RS and Farnell are both terrible for grabbing QFPs with tweezers despite then packing them with labels telling you to only handle with a pickup tool, this has resulted in £60 FPGAs that are unusable, a different failing but one you can at least see before soldering.Never seen a factory quite so scruffy as to have actual rubbish shoved under benches

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 08, 2022, 01:00:07 pm
content: QuoteThanks, do you do a lot pf single PCB prototyping though, where you are ordering say FETs in qtys of just 1 or 2?QuoteI must confess to seeing loads...(mostly outside of electronics)..the worst was a big supermarket, where people had dropped rubbish including food rubbish down the sides of an enormous skip.....people sent to clean it up just pushed it under the skip........i was then sent to clear it after several months and it was fowl stinking and full of dead rats who had died after scoffing rat bait. Took an entire day.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 07:15:36 am
content: Quote from: Faringdon on August 08, 2022, 01:00:07 pmyup, 1,2,5, 150 or indeed because RS are RS; 100 bags of 1,2or5 because that's all they have

author: eugene
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 09, 2022, 02:22:04 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on August 08, 2022, 08:35:59 amYou just have to trust that common vendors take ESD very seriously. Probably more seriously than you. It's instilled into the employees to the point that they don't bypass ESD protection out of fear of getting into more trouble than it's worth for them. Nobody enters the warehouse without protection and they don't remove it until they've left the warehouse.We all have to trust somebody or we'll go insane.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2022, 03:47:23 pm
content: Thanks, if you buy a couple of <= 0.65mm pitch chip from Farnell, Digikey, etc etc....then how do you know how many times its been re-reeled?And how do you know if the staff did the re-reeling with ESD precautions?Also, is machine re-reeling gauranteed to always be safe from ESD damage?How good is there-reeling process....i imagine a lot of chips fall out and have to re-reeled by hand?I can appreciate that with good/regular customers, distributors take the extra effort to get chips that are as new as possible (few re-reels), but for lesser customers, maybe such precautions arent taken?

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2022, 10:32:15 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on August 12, 2022, 03:47:23 pmThese people don't re-reel, they cut tape off one reel, maybe splice on header and footer extensions if you're lucky and put that on a fresh reel.Re-reeling is done by 3rd party kitting services, typically they would be re-reeling because they have pre-programmed something for you and are shipping it reeled or because they have sourced say a DPak in tubes and you want tape or perhaps you are in aerospace and have had those parts refinished in lead.The only thing DK/Farnell/etc will do that involves new packaging is when you want a small number of something and it comes packaged in something that doesn't cut down as easily as a tape. That can mean ESD boxes, bags, crudely cut bits of tube snapped up bits of tray, cute little mini trays (they seem to be a new thing), custom blister packs and little foam wedges, the person doing that doesn't know who you are or how special your relationship is. ESD compliance will eb company wide, enforced and inherent in their process Only some of those options are done on demand, others are clearly pre-packed on masse in smaller quantities. Physical damage from improper handling, packing or inaccurate use of scissors is not unheard of.ESD damage of a complex chip is more likely to cause a fault or field failure than give you a dead chip, have you not watched all the Youtube videos of people zapping stuff on purpose?The most likely reason these devices failed is you killed them, a short, a wayward probe, poor soldering technique, an assembly error you fixed when you reworked the chip...

author: TomS_
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2022, 06:52:09 am
content: You can't know if employees are cutting corners, and it is perhaps not your concern. If there are quality issues with the parts you are receiving, raise it with the supplier and they may replace them for you. If the supplier has the right tools at their disposal maybe they can link part failures to a particular employee and will deal with it internally.Otherwise try speaking to your AM or their marketing team and see if they will provide you with a warehouse tour so you can see the extent of their operation and determine for yourself if they are someone you would consider doing business with going forward.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 16, 2022, 06:58:39 am
content: Quote from: eugene on August 09, 2022, 02:22:04 pmI busted LCSC using "wireless" anti-static wrist straps.I sent them my video busting these and they were very red faced and said they'd fix it.

author: Faringdon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2022, 09:40:17 am
content: QuoteThanks for that....very interesting one.I must admit i wouldnt put it past a lot of vendors to be doing stuff without ESD precautions.I wonder how the re-reeling process is done (eg by the third party kitting vendors) in various places.......and whether that could cause ESD damage too.Also, with the world chip shortage....i woudlnt mind betting that say a nearly empty reel with about 10 chips on it, after a production run...gets sold back to some disty......and they buy loads of such nearly empty reels...then have to get the few chips off each reel and onto full reels......making full reels up to sell on. I wonder how this is done in the various places Eg with or without ESD precautions.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2022, 06:42:19 pm
content: FFS man, just order from serious distributors (Digi-Key, Mouser, Farnell, and Conrad are my go-to resellers) and stop worrying about it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 16, 2022, 06:47:03 pm
content: Quote from: Faringdon on August 16, 2022, 09:40:17 amNot a snowball’s chance in hell that the big resellers would do that. There’s no way it would be economically feasible, with the effort/cost required to locate, procure, ship, receive, and repackage the parts. In China? Maybe. In USA or Europe? No way, it’d be a complete money losing operation, and one that’s almost certainly prohibited by their contracts with component manufacturers. Not to mention the extreme risk of contaminating your supply with counterfeit parts.And that’s even assuming people were selling their reel leftovers, which I frankly doubt.