can't get XC9536 to work - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 03:25:33 pm
content: OK, much fooling around, I jumped to the wrong conclusion. I have an old board design that used an XC9536 (5V version) to provide reset signals at power on. I thought the grey market chips I got were bad, but I salvaged some 9536's off some old boards and they have the same issue. I am using ise 13.4 on a Linux system with a Xilinx (possibly counterfeit) Platform Cable USB. When the devices are programmed, ALL outputs are stuck at either ground or +5V. A few outputs have VERY narrow runt pulses on them. I used the old .jed files from years ago when this project worked fine. Possibly I was using a different ise version at that time. Now, I have re-run the synthesis and checked the simulation, all looks good. Does anybody have any idea what is going wrong? Do I need to use an older version of ise to support these old CPLDs? Any other suggestion?Thanks,Jon

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 05:01:36 pm
content: mmm the 9500 series where dropped on ise earlier than that, i may be wrong, but i think you need lower versions, around 10.x i thinkXilinx was offering ISE suites freely from v9 and up ... you have to check if your version does support them ... if the jed file is okay and not corrupted, you should not have problemsBUT the 9536 where cloned a ton, if they don't have the dark brown "ish" color, say white THEY ARE COUNTERFEITwe had a ton of them, white markings, i immediately saw we'll have problems with theses, all failing after a while, even IMPACT gave some warning like wrong ID'Snormally any DLC9 DLC10 or the cloned ones Ali Ebay Ie: 2 in 1, 3 in 1 worked fine in my case for 9572 9536 and or using universal programmers like Chipmaster 6000uxp with the right socket

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 10, 2025, 06:59:21 pm
content: Thanks much for the reply! I don't know what ise version I used, but the original .jed file was created in 2009. At least, the impact version that came with ise 13.4 doesn't COMPLAIN when I try to program the XC9536 device. I generally use 9500XL devices for this sort of stuff now, and haven't tried to program a 9500 (non XL) part in at least several years. I did make a couple of these boards in 2018, I think, and all worked well, so I was very surprised that it didn't work this time. I immediately expected the new chips were some kind of counterfeit, but i got the same bad result from chips salvaged off boards that I knew worked.What I did today was add an output pin that would monitor a counter in the early stages of the logic. This pin is stuck high. I have no idea whether that means the counter is stuck or that no outputs actually work. I may tinker a bit more with this before giving up and having to make a kludge board with an XC9536XL.Thanks,Jon

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 04:12:23 pm
content: I have done 9536 (the older non XL, "real 5v") design w. ISE 14.7Think that's the latest to support them

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 05:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on June 11, 2025, 04:12:23 pmWell, the last time I programmed a 5V 9536 was to make one of these older board designs, and it worked perfectly in 2018. I am pretty sure I was using the same ise 13.4 install as I have now. Just to check, I installed ise 10.1, and used the same .jed files and get the exact same problem, none of the outputs seem to work. I tried a very old .jed file, the older one that worked in 2018 and a newly created one with an additional test output. I use the 13.4 impact to program XC9500XL parts and Spartan 3 FPGAs all the time, and that all works fine. And, both the 10.1 and 13.4 impact give no errors when programming.I'm totally baffled!Thanks,Jon

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 05:45:24 pm
content: So you can program the "misbehaving" 36' wo. any issues , but it just doesn't behave properly ?Same issue with a "new" and an "old/good" 36' ?And the same programmer/toolchain can program a XC9536XL & a Spartan3 ?Seems strange ....Are you giving 3v3 or 5v Vcc to the 36' during programming ?

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2025, 09:35:25 pm
content: Quote from: bingo600 on June 11, 2025, 05:45:24 pmYes!Quote5.0V for the 9536. I have done some more testing. I can pipe the clock out to another pin, works fine. There are a bunch of counters that set the timing of outputs, and if something were holding these FFs in reset, that might explain the issue. The 9500 series does have a global reset net, but I am not using it. Is there some obscure setting in ise or impact that controls how that works? I put in an if (test ='1') then test <= '0' else test <= '1' and this didn't work either.Thanks,Jon

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 01:42:42 pm
content: I'm not a HDL guru , just a hobbyist ...This is "above my head" ...Grumbling ...I was just wondering if the "programmer" is happy with 5v on the CPLD pins.My programmer is an Ali Clone ...Long shot ...Could you drive the CPLD w. 3v3 during programming , and then 5v afterwards

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2025, 03:50:23 pm
content: The programmer is rated for 2.5 - 5.0 V as far as I know, it was designed for use with the old 5V 9500 family. I used it for several years with that family until the 9500's were superseded by the 9500XL's. Anyway, the erase and programming step runs without error, but the outputs don't seem to work. I installed ise 10.1 on a laptop and redid the programming from known-good files that were used a few years ago. I have no explanation why this no longer works. Combinatorial outputs seem to work, the simplest clocked logic does NOT! At this point I am giving up. I'll pull the XC9536's off the board and put in a patch board with an ATTINY microcontroller.I have pulled out enough hair over this mess!Jon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 03:59:06 pm
content: Well, I threw in the towel on this, and replaced the XC9536 with an AT Tiny CPU that was also quite overqualified for this task. (power comes on, pull reset/ low for 20 ms, raise reset/, wait 20 ms pulse sample/ low for 1 ms). I had a left-over board set up for this chip, sawed out the required portion and wired it in with wire wrap wire. All working now!But, I STILL have no idea why I could not get an XC9536 chip to function properly!Jon

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2025, 04:11:30 pm
content: The last time i used Xilinx ISE 12.4 for XC9572XL was in 2021 and it worked well. That is a 5 V tolerant 3.3 V device, that i made to generate precharge timings for modding Advantest R6581T precision meters.I think there may be a problem with the platform cable, but the IMPACT tool is pretty verbose and supports different types of error checking. Then of course there may be some wiring mistake, like the clock or reset pin, if there is any. One could also check the supply current of the CPLD. The chip has several supply pins. In my example XC9572XL there are four of them, two for the core and two for the banks.Regards, Dieter

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2025, 04:19:48 pm
content: This is a board that was designed in 2010, and I have made 16 of them, last couple in 2018. I never had any issue with the XC9536 in that time. Suddenly, in 2025, I couldn't get the XC9536 to function properly. First, I suspected fake chips from China, but known-good chips salvaged off some older boards failed in the EXACT same way! These new units were made using blank boards left over from previous runs. So, the PCB layout was fine. A total of 4 XC9536 chips failed to work in exactly the same way.This is the 5V XC9536, not the 3.3 V XL version. I have moved all more recent work over to the XC9500XL series, but I had these old blank boards left over, so thought I should use them. All I needed was to source some NOS 9536 chips...Jon

author: dietert1
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2025, 08:01:31 pm
content: We have working installations of ISE 9.2 and 12.4 and both of them let me create a new project for a XC9500 5V CPLD. Though i remember an EOL notice from Digikey for the XC95..XL line some years ago. Assume the 5V version is dead, too.Just looked up their lists and they still have a lot of CPLD stock, but the one i used isn't available anymore.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2025, 01:41:50 am
content: Impact (ver 13.4 and 10.1) program the XC9536 just fine! But, they act like all the FFs are being held in reset. I was able to pipe the clock input to come out an output, but anything that was clocked logic acted as if the FFs were all stuck at zero. I tried looking for some setting that activated the global set/reset pin, but I was not using that. Anyway, this failure was present on .,jed files that worked back in 2018. Digi-Key seems to have a lot of XC9500XL in stock, and also Rochester Electronics.Jon

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2025, 10:43:33 pm
content: Well, I never solved this, but had a bad feeling that maybe whatever was wrong affected all Xilinx devices or all CPLDs. So, I had occasion to program the same basic project, except that it had been ported to the XC9536XL. I programmed 2 devices, and they both work FINE! So, whatever went haywire only affected the 5V XC9500 devices. Now, I can't say for sure that the XC9536 devices that I was trying to use were actually perfect (2 were from the grey market and 2 were pulled off working boards with a hot air tool) but they all exhibited the same defect (appeared that all FFs were held in reset.)But, at least, I can go on using XC9500XL parts without worry.Jon

author: coromonadalix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 01:44:13 pm
content: i had problems with cloned 9536 plcc44, i hope you have genuine onesnever had problems with many ise versions in windows 10 ? maybe i was lucky, and i have an 2 in 1 ALI jtag adapter, who act as an dlc9 if i recall, no problem to connect it to a live board and reflash or flash if needed with the same "very old" jed file ??my problems where mostly bad id's on the fake ones and some failed once gone thru a pcb oven ??have a stash of 9572xl plcc84 and a few 9536 laying dormant somewhere, we did subbed 9572xl with ATF1504 on a small carrier board mimicking the plcc84, we did loose an printer port in the design, worked finewe used an Kanda adapter

author: iMo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 16, 2025, 03:34:48 pm
content: Have you doublechecked your CPLD gets clean 5V (at core as well as at i/o) during programming? Sometimes also helped to put a, say, 47 ohm resistor into the TCK to lower the ringing..