Up and Coming 6½ Digit bench meters in 2016 or Go for a Keysight 34401A  ? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 02:35:08 pm
content: My end of year present will be arriving much later than I expected! as a result of our local Rand currency reducing itself to almost nothing.Anyway, I need a 6½ Digit meter for 2016 as I am starting to work and experiment with projects that calls for one, are there any up and coming 6½ Digit bench meters in 2016 I should be on the lookout for? or is the 34401A still the obvious choice.I was considering a Rigol DM3068 , but it just lacks the Quality of the 34401A (Both PC software and Hardware) and im the owner of two Rigol instruments.

author: Orange
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:15:19 pm
content: If you can afford, go for an Keysight 34461 or one other models from that series 34465 or 34467. I think a 34401A is nowadays more expensive than a 34461A.I have both and like the display of the 34401A, it also starts up much quicker.I would avoid the Rigol, they have not a good track record.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:10:20 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 01, 2016, 04:00:00 pmThanks for the input.I do like the LCD, but im not sure how the issue around boot time is an issue once the instrument has booted ? I will mostly use simply use the USB interface/scpi with Matlab, the legacy GPIB isnt really a requirement for me.Also note, the Keysight 34461A has a big display, the UX is clean and the layout works well, also Benchvue works very well. so thats a big winner. im almost 90% certain this is what I will be investing in.thats $1,086.03, its Rand 24K, I can almost buy a small used car for that price here where I live.I do agree, the TEK has better specs in some respects.http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/tektronix/digital-multimeter/digital-multimeter-dmm4050.htm6.5, 0.0024% Accuracy, Bench Digital MultimeterProduct Features:Measures Volts, Amps, Ohms, Frequency, Period, Continuity, Diode Test, Capacitance, & Temperature6.5 Digit Resolution (24 PPM)Basic VDC Accuracy of up to 0.0024% (1 yr.)200 mV to 1000 V Voltage Range, with up to 10 ?V Resolution200 ?A to 10 A Current Range, with up to 1 nA Resolution200 ? to 100 M? Ohm Range, with up to 1 m? ResolutionCAT I 1000 V, CAT II 600 V3-year WarrantyAvailable Functions & FeaturesVolts, Ohms, and Amps MeasurementsDiode and Continuity TestingFrequency Measurements2×4 Ohms 4-wire Measurement TechniqueDedicated DC Leakage Current MeasurementsSix Dedicated Buttons for Fast Access to Instrument SetupsLimit Compare Mode for Pass/Fail TestingConnectivityFront 2×4 Measurement InputsUSB Host Port on Front Panel for Easy Storage of Measurement Data and Instrument SettingsRS-232 on Rear Panel for Quick PC ConnectivityIncludes USB to RS-232 Interface Adapter CableIncludes National Instrument’s LabVIEW SignalExpress™ TE LimitedEdition for Connecting Your Bench

author: BloodyCactus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 05:47:26 pm
content: the tek dmm4040/dmm4050 is just the fluke 8045/8046. I would rather see 'fluke' on my bench dmm than tekI want to get the Iwatsu VOAC7602 if I can get it past the wife approval

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:14:30 pm
content: Quote from: BloodyCactus on January 01, 2016, 05:47:26 pmThat sounds like it is tougher than getting approval from your boss.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 07:04:22 pm
content: QuoteYou can get a $1K car even here in the US. It's just that meter will work a whole lot better then the car would.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 09:27:25 pm
content: The 34401A is an ancient design. The 34461A is what you want.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 11:22:58 pm
content: Keithley 2015's are cheap enough (~$300) and come with THD audio DSP board that they would seem a no brainer for someone working with audio. However, the audio stuff is designed for the telecommunications industry rather than the audiophile stuff. Still it's worth considering just as a spare 6.5 digit meter anyway!Definitely avoid the Rigol DM3000 series. Effectively totally unsupported, no firmware updates, loads of bugs that will never be fixed. (Though I am saying this as a 5.5 digit DM3058E owner. Siglent SDM3055 is a much better choice for anyone after a 5.5 digit, at least they actively support it.)However Dave is right. If you want new then the 34461A is very nice indeed.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:32:39 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2016, 09:27:25 pmhaving just bought a used 34401a, I guess I'm biasedthe used one was about $450 and it was in great condition. its a proven time-tested design and its long manuf avail time says something (good) about it. maybe the other will sell for a long time, but I don't think the 'fancy screen' TE boxes will have the same appeal as the minimal simple-style ones that are still sought after in the used market.the new one has a fan. 34401 is fanless. I hate fans in my HOME lab. at work, maybe I would not care. but it is a failure point and I'd prefer to avoid noise and failure points.I have not used scpi yet for the 34401 but I expect it to be high quality and low bug count. I can't say the same about any new bit of hardware or software from - well - ANYONE, these days. no one cares anymore (company) and its all about ship-it-now and not about quality. for that reason, I'll take an older design over a new one, most times.if its my money and not the company spending it, I'll err on the side of classic test gear instead of brand new units.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 02:42:34 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 01, 2016, 11:22:58 pmWhat are some of the bugs you are referring to? This video on the DM3068 6 1/2 model indicates that it is capable of some measurements that other meters in his lab can not do.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 03:27:03 am
content: I would hope nobody would even consider the Rigol - it costs way too much for what it is compared to 34461A etc.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 04:39:08 am
content: Quote from: MarkF on January 02, 2016, 02:42:34 amI only have experience of the DM3058.* Those big trigger buttons with flashing lights? For reading auto hold? a facility that is nearly verbatim in the Rigol manual with the 34401A manual - doesn't work, not at all. No matter how I try and explain it to Rigol support they claim to not understand it and report not a single person has asked them about it. They have me dancing like a monkey before they will report the issue back to China. Because I guess they know China HQ abandoned these meters years ago. I'd explained how it doesn't work like a blue arsed fly, then suggested I could show them it working on my Keithley 2000 (which is very similar to how it works on 34401A), but they wanted me to film a vid of it not working on the Rigol and working with a 34401A which I don't have. I gave up.* Agilent 34401A command mode - near useless on the 3058 but apparently does work on the 3068. 3058 returns corrupted strings. This can be sort of fixed by coding around the bug, but not if relying on third party libraries or 34401 code (which is what this command mode is for after all). This is a totally obvious and should be extremely easy to fix bug. I reported it over a year ago I think. Nothing has ever been done about it. Compare with Siglent who are listening to customers and releasing new firmwares regularly.* The much advertised amazing user defined sensor mode, complete with cold junction compensation. Great for thermocouples! Only on the 3058 there is no way of reading these sensors over SCPI and so utterly useless. (I have since found a very convoluted way to do this with unpublished SCPI calls, but it also involves switching between the Rigol command and fecked up Agilent modes and is very poor). I think the 3068 may work because it has working Agilent mode and Agilent extended mode to cope with sensors. I guess Rigol just couldn't be arsed with Agilent extended mode on the 3058. I mean they can't be arsed getting the basic 34401 mode working so why bother?* There is a piece of software called UltraSensor that apparently does allow you to mess with the sensor functions (at least to upload them over USB) but it uses low level undocumented data packets over USB-TMC, not SCPI. I'm not sure I should get into this but it is VERY EASY to brick your meter completely using this official Rigol Software. I had a hell of a lot of back and forth with Rigol EU on this one and was treated like an idiot, until I finally got the support guy to follow my simple "how to brick a Rigol DM3058 in 3 easy steps" procedure and it happened to him. I refused to return my meter to them and managed to recover the firmware myself using JTAG. It turns out Rigol EU or USA don't actually have a clue or the facilities to repair meters anyway - even JTAG recovery - they just get China to send them replacements it seems. Maybe board swaps at the most.I've started threads on these subjects on EEVblog previously, but nobody seems interested. Rigol appear to have the same opinion. I guess most people who have a clue just send the meters back and go and purchase a proper Keysight or something and never touch Rigol again with a bargepole and so Rigol are left with the suckers who take their shit.

author: MarkF
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 08:58:22 am
content: Thanks for the info. I was interested in a bench meter for home use and the Rigol DM3058E would be at the top of my price range and needs.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 11:35:18 am
content: If money is of significant influence, get a 34401A used in good condition and you know, you have a rock solid instrument that also can be repaired, if needed. Or if you have the funds, get a Keysight 34461A, you will not regret it down the road.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 11:47:01 am
content: given the bug reports I am seeing, there is NO WAY I'd touch a china based meter if I needed any SOFTWARE (scpi) to be working. the front panel may work (generally) but the eastern firms simply don't care much about software and as soon as they have your money, they don't care about you.I would not say the US firms (few that are still around) care that much more, but at least there's more attention to detail at first ship.this is, again, why I prefer things that are 20 years old or more. back then, it wasn't nearly such a low-quality software (embedded) world. companies seemed to care a bit more and not have the 'ship it fast, now!' mentality that entirely rules the industry, today.really such a shame that there is no long term support from ANYTHING in china. wonder if it will ever self-correct? 'made in japan' used to be a joke in the 60's and 70's and then it turned around 180 so that now, MIJ is a sign of top quality - so much so that no one can afford to have anything MADE in japan anymore. but for a while, things were great and we enjoyed the attention to detail from japanese goods.I'm not at all convinced china will ever fix themselves. they show no signs of wanting to and the world is not really in a position to force them. what is the world going to do - take their business elsewhere? like, WHERE? china owns us all, now, more or less ;(anyway, I ignore china for all serious things, with very few exceptions. sure, I have a rigol 4ch scope but I'm not using for real business. if I needed mission-critical test gear, I'd never even consider rigol and its kind.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:19:11 pm
content: thanks, lots of valuable tips really appreciate the feedback guys!questionwhy do people still use the old GPIB standard in new meters,why not make the switch? is it for legacy purpose?

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:31:02 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 01, 2016, 09:27:25 pm

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:09:59 pm
content: what's wrong with gpib? if you have a test rig already working, why change? its good to keep old protocols working, as long as they earn their keep.if I can pick a faster, modern interconnect and protocol, great; but for times when I can't, I appreciate having my test gear speak both old and new forms of data i/o. if there are multiple ways in, I consider that a huge plus.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:53:49 pm
content: GPIB is rather outdated, but it's still present for backward compatibility. It just starts that lower cost instuments (e.g. keysight 34460) skip it for cost reasons.Though USB has many features that could make it a good replacement for GPIB, but it also has issues (noise, real time requirements). So GPIB is not fully dead yet though the computers that had GPIB bulid in are hardly in use any more.Unless you need it, I would not miss the GPIB interface, if something like USB or ethernet is there.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 03:32:31 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on January 02, 2016, 02:06:35 pmsometimes you get lucky, and sometimes you buy new stuff like a Rigol and get the short end of the stick, in this situation ive been through all except the buying of second hand instruments, no way would I risk it again.Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

author: acbern
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 03:42:05 pm
content: Something that has always made me mad is that both the K2000 and the 34401 do not support PT100 measurements. Often need this, and its just SW anyway. Has eliminted those two for any future DMM purchases for me.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 07:01:00 pm
content: I can't believe Rigol hasn't fixed that 34401A mode yet. I mean, it's a selling point on their marketing collateral even - and it doesn't work!And how can they even ship something so non-functional? We're not talking oddball corner cases - it flat out uses a completely different format for readings than Agilent! Did the engineer who added this ever even try to use it?!

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 07:18:05 pm
content: Like I said, at least they can hide behind that one a bit as it needs someone to use the intricacies of SCPI.But even the front panel doesn't work.The biggest most highlighted buttons are the Trigger Run/Hold and Single buttons. Press Hold and it just starts flashing at you. It does actually do all the stuff required for a reading hold, like you can give it a percentage window for trigger and it switches to low impedance mode so when you remove the leads it will not false read. Problem is it then doesn't ACTUALLY HOLD ANYTHING! Even worse, there may be some scenario where you want it to only hold readings without removing leads. So as not to fill up it's memory buffer, say. Well it will do that - hold the reading on the display while leads connected, but it carries on triggering anyway and filling up its memory. Utterly useless.As for bricking the meter in 3 easy steps....ETA: I've actually come to the conclusion that it would be easier to reverse engineer the damn thing and fix it myself. After getting intimate with its Blackfin and flash memory using JTAG in order to fix my own meter I am halfway there

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 07:20:14 pm
content: again, china companies 'think differently' than many of us, do.what is ok for them to ship is quite far from what we would do if it were our company.its the 'sell and run' mentality, as I call it. once they have your money, repeat sales mean nothing to them. there will be other suckers to buy their gear even if its just a single sale. this is how they think and operate! and its why they are the last region who will get my money if there are other options available to me, such as used HP or tek gear.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 08:45:08 pm
content: The auto hold on the 34465A is glorious! Yesterday I realized I had populated a bunch of 2.7nF caps with 2.2nF ones and I had printed the BOM so small to fit on one page I didn't immediately notice. Doh.(2.2nF were used elsewhere in a nearby I/V converter; hence the confusion.) But to identity the offenders (0805 size) I used a pair of Pomona tweezer probes under the microscope to read them, while the caps were setting in solder paste ready to reflow. One beep for each reading without taking my eyes off the microscope. Then look up and check the table to determine which parts were wrong. Which turned out to be ALL the 2.7nF ones were 2.2nF. But then I didn't actually have any 2.7nF caps, at all, so left these in until I get 100 pc from Mouser.(These are for a couple of Sallen-Key lowpass filters on a DAC, so the values actually do matter.)But just taking a bunch of readings and have them appear on-screen in a table is really sweet.Apart from price concerns I'd pick the 34461A over a 34401A any day.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 09:04:55 pm
content: I've made contact locally from our local distributors in cape town where I live (hopefully I can get a good deal) if they dare abuse my wallet I will have no choice but to look at tequipment and get me a 6% discount, I have an issue buying stuff overseas, the logistics of handling returns is at the buyers expense. (no fun)its weekend and Keysight distributors/sales people are on holiday, bedsides who the hell wants to hear about meter request this time of the year. everyone`s at the beach here, as its peaking summer and only nerds like myself are indoors.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 04:08:56 pm
content: Okay after watching the Keysight34401A34461A Review and Tear down, I finally made up my mind.Thank you all for your input, notably Dave for taking the time to make these videos, because of you another purchase took place.at a total of $1384,40, it will be arriving next week, calibration is free when purchased, future calibration charges are $84,59Time to unpack all my can food and peanut butter.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 04:36:15 pm
content: Quote from: diyaudio on January 05, 2016, 04:08:56 pmDecided to buy remaining stock of the product which will be discontinued very soon.

author: fanOfeeDIY
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 04:49:19 pm
content: Hi diyaudio,May I confirm which did you buy?34401A or 34461A?Because I think Dave only have done review and tear down videos on 34461A only.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 05:08:30 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on January 05, 2016, 04:36:15 pmsorry. I meant Keysight 34461A.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 03:28:41 pm
content: Great stuff! my 34461A arrived today.Not sure if this is normal, I received a 34461A with an official calibration certificate date of issue 06 Jan 2016, but the unit shows time since last calibration 1106 days, that 3 years ago??Does Metorgy not reset this or update the string? cal String 24Nov14 23C

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 05:58:59 pm
content: Quote from: diyaudio on January 12, 2016, 03:28:41 pmThat's not ok. Date of Calibration on certificate and cal string must agree.For the 465A/470A, Calibration Equipment Used is also listed (Fluke 5720A and 5725A), together with the Date Used ( same as Cal date) and the Cal Due Date.If you got your unit today, 24th of November is reasonable, as it takes about 3 weeks to ship from Malaysia.6th of January is nonsense, that's maybe the packing date of your supplier.1106 days .. that seems to be a datum problem.. try to re-set the actual date and time, maybe that helps.Frank

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:15:20 pm
content: thanks frank.Attached is the cal certification, I updated the user time, it was about 2 hours behind, as im based in South Africa.I see no mention of the equipment used to calibrated the instrument, the local Keysight sales guy told me they calibrated it , as they are ISO 9001 compliant. I do see a cal sticker on the machine though...I'm a bit worried though, if the dates are wrong and the instrument shows a last cal date dating back 3 years ago then something is definitely not right? and I dont think its a datetime issue. Note my meter wasn't sourced directly from Malaysia they had one locally in stock.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:24:34 pm
content: Isn't the stored date of cal the date of the last factory cal or a cal lab adjustment? The certificate just means its calibrated in the metrology sense that nothing has been done to change the meter, it has just been compared to standards?ETA: But I would at least expect to see the equipment used to cal, including serial numbers and cal dates of. Even Rigol gives you that. I mean it's all about the traceability. This looks like something boiler plate printed on the day of despatch.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:33:06 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 12, 2016, 07:24:34 pmthats exactly, what I'm thinking... but I'm no expert in this area, maybe someone like Dave or a keysight representative can shed some light.in fact, I was under the impression that "instrument calibration", is the modification of the instruments coefficients, based on measurement reference to another instrument.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:36:25 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 12, 2016, 07:24:34 pmIf it is bogus, Keysight HQ is NOT going to be happy, I shall make a point that they see this, if they not already reading this...

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 07:56:24 pm
content: Quote from: diyaudio on January 12, 2016, 07:33:06 pm"Calibration" is verifying the instruments values against known standards and verifying they are within specifications. Actually changing the values in the instruments would be "adjustment".I am sure the date since last calibration was also quite long or not reset on some other units people purchased and it was mentioned in the original 34461A thread.I ordered a 34461A today, should have it in a few days to compare.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 08:01:52 pm
content: The 1106 days since last cal (assuming the photo was done today) indicates an internally stored cal date of 01/01/2013 - is that the factory zero date, before even a factory cal/adjustment has been done?This doesn't match the cal string, which I am guessing could be any old thing the user enters.Also the calibration count of 128 is very odd.Doesn't inspire confidence.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 08:15:59 pm
content: Check out this post for something similar posted by someone else:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight's-new-34465a-%286-5-digit%29-and-34470a-%287-5-digit%29-bench-multimeters/msg634151/#msg634151

author: blackdog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 08:53:31 pm
content: Hi,Here on the bench are 2x DMM4050, 2x 34461A and a 34401A afthe more than 1 year testing i can say the DMM4050 are the best, most stable.The 34461A have the the biggest temperatue sensitivity, even de 34401A is more stable...I love the 344xxseries display and funtionality!Kind regarts,Blackdog

author: 6thimage
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 09:51:48 pm
content: Prior to version 2 of the firmware, the 3446xA multimeters did not show the time since calibration, when upgraded to a version 2 firmware, the firmware assumes a default date as no date is set in the calibration data.With a cal string of 24Nov14, I would guess that this multimeter is essentially new old-stock, with the reseller upgrading the firmware and running it through their own verification. Keysight recommend that an adjustment is always made, even if the multimeter is within specification at the calibration interval. The logic behind this, is that Keysight specify accuracy limits following a calibration and adjustment. If you calibrate the multimeter in the more traditional sense (i.e. verification) you are only testing the accuracy on the multimeter at that exact moment and there is no guarantee of its accuracy in a month or a year. Essentially, Keysight have gone to a lot of effort figuring out how the accuracy of the multimeter will drift, if you don't adjust the multimeter, there is no way to tell how it will drift.Quote from: Macbeth on January 12, 2016, 08:01:52 pmA cal count of 128 is not too suspicious - my 34470A came with a count of 76, the reason being is that each write to the cal memory (done after each cal constant / step) increments the count. A count of 128, makes me think that the multimeter has been calibrated twice - but this can happen in the factory (i.e. a bad calibration or Keysight refreshing their stock).As far as cal certificates go, I wouldn't trust that one at all - even cheap cals (done by RS, here in the UK) give more information than that. Personally, I would send the multimeter back to the seller and order a multimeter from a better source.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 10:28:38 pm
content: good point about calibration vs ADJUSTMENT. most people who are not hard-core metrologists want adjustments so the meter is 'zeroed' with accuracy to nist standards, not just offset values logged on paper.in the old days when you turned mechanical pots or knobs to adjust, it was bad to change the value unless it was very far off. but with modern calibrations, its all 'just math' and so no mechanical wear happens when you adjust; and no 'worn spots' on caps or coils or trimmers have to be worried about.once you own the gear, you may want to calibrate it over time and WATCH its values change; but rarely do an adjustment. but when you first buy it, it has no history (to you) and so you might as well have it adjusted to be as close in absolute values to nist as the vendor can.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 10:37:36 pm
content: Quote from: 6thimage on January 12, 2016, 09:51:48 pmBrilliant, thank you for clearing that up, Dave if you around you should make a video on how calibration really works maybe visit asome metrologists and do a demo on how its done on camera.however there is no way im going to import another, its just to expensive with the rand now at R17/$ I snatched my unit before the currency started slipping. I think im going to have to ask them for a better trace, I wonder if keysight has a standard on what these cal certificates should look like, would be interesting as its their name being thrown around here.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 10:59:13 pm
content: Taking all this back to reality, I very highly doubt this meter is not within specification whatsoever. If you were a buyer in the military, aviation, or NASA and require traceability (ie. a chain of blame when shit hits the fan big time) then I think this is inadequate. Of course I imagine such buyers have their own extreme cal labs and recal/adjust after initial purchase anyway.It's also really annoying that metrology purists keep on insisting that calibration has nothing to do with adjustment, while manufacturers refer to calibration as something to do with a lockout password (ie. an adjustment), but in this case also provide a non locked out string for someone to change when they perform a "traditional calibration" ie. verification.Blimey, all these new software functions - they seem to be making a rod to beat themselves with

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 11:43:38 pm
content: I'd like to append the official Calibration Reports, I got with my first 34465A. (Gone back to KS, for investigation)Obviously, your instrument has (additionally?) been calibrated in SA, by an independent cal lab of your KS representative..That may be a good practice, as the travel from MY to SA may affect the instruments calibration. (No, I really doubt that. These instruments are robust)Maybe there is a certain quality or stability difference to your 34461A, therefore a different level of calibration is used.Anyhow, you may compare the information provided by these different reports, also take notice of the 2nd page!Frank

author: hs3
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 12:14:39 am
content: From this link you can see the original Keysight calibration report dated 24-Nov-14 for the same 34461A unit being discussed here now:https://service.keysight.com/archivews/streamer.aspx?fileId=VDBSWk1VMXFWWGROVVQwOQ==I guess personally I would prefer to see the test report with actual values as seen on page 2 of the original report also for the new calibration.edit: Hmm, looks like the link is getting truncated from the end. Copy the link manually and it should work.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 12:58:02 am
content: Or trythis link instead!ETA: Nope didn't workETA2: replaced the trailing = with hex %3D FIXEDSurely diyaudio would have had this report with his meter especially as it has the important page 2. The second vendor calibration (verification) merely confirms it is still within the 1 year spec?It should still have at least some traceability like the equipment involved, serial numbers, etc. Lets face it if they really had the Fluke calibration equipment specified it would be absolutely no skin off their nose to print out the automated reports whatsoever.

author: ansgar96
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 04:01:05 pm
content: Hey,You can check the Calibration Certificate here:https://service.keysight.com/infoline/public/details.aspx?i=COV&pn=&sn=&lc=&cc=My 34465A came with the certificate and I also be able to download it from the link (after entering serial number and product number).I had a 34461A for two weeks 6months ago, there was also (an updated) cal certificate. Perhaps this helps youBest regards

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 04:37:31 pm
content: Quote from: ansgar96 on January 13, 2016, 04:01:05 pmThanks ansgar96, really appreciate it.

author: boggis the cat
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 06:19:04 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on January 12, 2016, 10:59:13 pmSimply using "calibration" can cause misunderstandings, so in my company we always explain what we are offering to new customers. (Calibration in metrology terms is analogous to "comparison", with a lot of effort directed at establishing uncertainties.)Keysight use "Performance Verification" and "Calibration Adjustment Procedures" to differentiate between determination of 'accuracy' and tweaking the instrument to align with (hopefully!) more accurate standards.Typical customer requirements are usually to verify against the manufacturer's specification. If it looks like the instrument is out of specification, then sometimes they will want it adjusted then re-verified.

author: Dr. Frank
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 14, 2016, 09:11:18 am
content: By spying on the serial numbers, one can figure out the number of units sold.The serial numbers always run from #151 continuously upwards, therefore:34461A: 17074 units, ~4/2013 - 12/15, ~18.9M$34465A: 2394 units, 11/2014 - 1/16, ~ 3.4M$34470A: 512 units, 11/2014 - 12/15, ~1.5M$I think, this latest DMM platform from agilent/Keysight is quite successful.Frank

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 07:55:39 am
content: Received my 34461A today - my first new in box Keysight product! Its calibration is 7 months old, came from factory with version 2.08 so it has the proper calibration date stored. I would have been turned off by the calibration date but I knew about it before hand. Slightly older stock meant that it was purchased by the dealer when the CAD to US dollar was better. As a result I got it for several hundred less then it is currently at tequipment. And it is new enough to have the updated front panel silkscreening which I wanted.I guess its time to measure everything I have here now...

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 09:35:25 am
content: Congratulations on your purchase. You will love it, I have no doubt, especially the graphing / trend chart function.

author: diyaudio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 09:10:07 pm
content: Quote from: TheSteve on January 16, 2016, 07:55:39 amSame here, I just finished moments ago, demonstrating resistance drift and logging with Matlab , this thing is incredible, there is no way I can afford a second one.I would recommend diligence over greed any time.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 16, 2016, 09:59:25 pm
content: I've been making histrograms of the various Agilent power supplies I have showing the drifting as they warm up.I haven't tried taking it apart yet but don't see a calibration void sticker on the casing, yet my 34450A has one(from Keysight directly).