Dumb dishwasher - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Ken Mercer
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:27:10 am
content: Jeff Geerling has a rant about his new dishwasher which pretty much forces users to connect it back to Bosh. Really annoying!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:40:35 am
content: I wonder why they think I enjoy using computers or smart phones so much. To me its like a big minus if I need to use SOMETHING ELSE to use something.Like I wanna pick my phone up or some bullshit after loading the dish washer. Its like they think everyone is a fucking phone junkieIMO its hassleware, basically I don't think they think anyone will even use that feature. Its just there to make a tier. Because they get too much criticism from people (in today's software educated world that understands what a MCU motorcontroller does) if they totally leave out the feature. so it ends up being a bullshit argument related to the cost of a push button.I think its funny because now people saying that using your phone alot and stuff is bad for you, and they kept pushing this centralization. Then it ends up looking like the typical 'big company does not give a shit about you' image that they try so fucking hard to avoid. They have this like health conscious clean responsible bullshit image going on that the current research about phones is at odds with.What was the original advertising for dishwashers that its supposed to be like wholesome because you can relax with your kids after dinner instead of doing the dishes ? now its like "lets tempt you by making you pick up your cell phone"

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:53:18 am
content: Should've asked how to fix the old one in the Repair forum here

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:05:01 am
content: I can't think of one legitimate reason why a dishwasher, washing machine, or fridge needs to connect to the internet.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:16:01 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 25, 2025, 04:05:01 amIt needs to be able to report you to the environmental police if you dare to wash less than a full load or use excessive detergent.

author: srb1954
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 04:44:40 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on March 25, 2025, 04:05:01 amNot a legitimate reason but maybe they are moving towards trying to extort a subscription charge every time you want to use some of the features of the appliance. A bit like how car manufacturers now want to charge you every time you want to use the heated seats in you car.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 05:04:46 am
content: In the US, some electric water heaters use "load control." That results in a reduced rate at all times, but it's clear how that will develop. Fortunately, it's currently voluntary.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:33:41 am
content: Quote from: srb1954 on March 25, 2025, 04:44:40 amThose kinds of companies can eff off. I'll never buy their products.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:37:45 am
content: Quote from: srb1954 on March 25, 2025, 04:44:40 am

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 10:51:16 am
content: The biggest problem here is that consumers aren't made aware of the network requirement until after they've bought the appliance and had it delivered.In France, sellers of appliances are required to display the product's "repairability score" at the point of sale. It's not a perfect system by any means, but it's a positive step towards making consumers aware of important information that they might not otherwise find out until it's too late.A similar labelling requirement for 'connected' products would go a long way towards squashing this kind of stupid behaviour by manufacturers:"WARNING: This product does not deliver full functionality without an active internet connection, a user account, and agreement to additional terms and conditions including some which may harm your privacy".

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 10:56:30 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 25, 2025, 05:04:46 amThe customer friendly solution would be some well agreed upon standard for household appliances to advertise flexibility in load, and a local (such as a solar inverter) source to dispatch as it sees appropriate so the customer can save money. Rather than having some intermediary aggregate the loads and take their cut of the (now lower) savings. But decentralised control seems to be rather controversial even on this forum!

author: elektryk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:16:07 pm
content: I'd be probably more angry with those touch buttons than with the lack of delayed start function (which is only available in their app as he states).I also use model with WiFi, but I haven't paired it yet...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:17:43 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 25, 2025, 10:51:16 amClear labeling like energy level.- Doesn't work without internet- Requires internet for some core features- Internet is entirely optional for an app- Dumb deviceExtra tagging if anything is a subscription.If the company alters the deal, automatic class action lawsuit, and refund for the devices. You sell dishwashers, and you are not Darth Vader.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:36:52 pm
content: I will only buy an IoT device if:- If it relies normally on a cloud service, I can manage it locally, for instance, it exposes itself on the local Wi-Fi network with some kind of API, which has either been reverse engineered, or is documented by the manufacturer. For instance, my Drayton Wiser heating system is manageable entirely if the internet or their cloud servers go down by directly accessing its local IP. Or;- It uses Zigbee or Bluetooth (with well-implemented support for either), or;- I have no other market choice, or the functionality is not critical.Unfortunately, my car is in the last category (every connected EV uses cellular and private vehicle servers), but VW do still support the previous model of car I owned via we-connect and the subscription was not too high, so I am not as worried about obsolescence. But I am thinking of creating my own CAN dongle to replace the we-connect functions at some point so I can go completely cloudless. Projects...

author: Haenk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:43:09 pm
content: Dumb stuff that does not require to be smart, shall not be smart.All those IoT-devices suffer from rapid neglect by the manufacturer, leaving unpatched sercurity hole simply unpatched, until the devices dies.As I would expect to last the dishwasher a decade at least - when was the last time you heard about an internet-capable device being supported and maintained by the manufacturer for a decade?

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 12:55:53 pm
content: We can't wait for smart toilets that will send to the cloud the frequency, time of release and consistency of your stool.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 02:49:06 pm
content: You should have Googled first. Already invented:https://www.kohler.com/en/products/smart-home/shop-smart-toiletsHere's an excerpt of the features:So far, no Internet.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:09:11 pm
content: Bosch (BSH) offers also plenty of non-IoT dish washers. BTW, BSH spare parts are available and affordable over here.

author: Kharn_the_Betrayer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 03:19:03 pm
content: Now introducing the smart drying rack!Its only purpose is to connect to your network and provide an extra vulnerability

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 05:14:57 pm
content: Quote from: Ken Mercer on March 25, 2025, 02:27:10 amQuote from: Ken Mercer on March 25, 2025, 02:27:10 amYou HAVE to be joking.Searched Google and from the results I see * bullshit buzzwords."Bosch Homehttps://www.bosch-home.co.uk› ... › Smart Appliances*Discover the *convenienceof *Home Connect and Bosch *smart dishwashers. *Adapt washing cycles, change programs *on the go, and *never run out of tabs again."That is for the HOME OWNER to DECIDE... not INTERNET CONNECTIVY to Bosch.No broadband or connection to Bosch, not very **ADAPTABLE is it?Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 25, 2025, 10:51:16 amSarcasm: Here we go again.... Advanced thinkers for the MASS MAJORITY! Mass Majority = very stupid and confused don't know what they are doing."Using dish washers haven't changed. We are going to revolutionize how we use dishwashers. It is not WHEN you can use it, it's you need to have working broadband, a phone, create an account. sign in, download and app sign in to that and product to be in warranty before you can use it so we know it's YOU are no one else using it and for safety too when parts are due to wear out.QuoteIn order words CUTTING corners like what my Siemens washing machines does where I have to manually fill it with hot water (no hot water inlet) and to get it to a high enough water level to clean things.QuoteSarcasm: We're going to modernize how we use dishwashers using 'apps on YOUR PC<patronizing language like a parent talking down to a young kid like they were told off for doing something stupid>' to keep in line with advanced way of thinking set by our advanced thinkers for the mass majority", "Mass majority no longer use dish washers without 'apps on their pc'. Mass majority natural born low IQ levels and low natural abilities and it makes it unsafe to use it without apps.", "Apps modernize the way we do things"F*** you Bosch.What an INSULT!Next time I go shopping for appliances I'll look out to make sure they don't not have a WIFI symbols on them or WIFI lights.It should NOT be needed ever as an essential and I think HERE they broke their trust with the consumers, in my opinion effective calling them STUPID like I mentioned some times before and denying them access to certain functions and coercing them into this stuff.QuoteI think I'd prefer paying $200 than being subjected to USE a STUPID "APP" past the controls. The controls are RIGHT THERE on the machine controlled the control board. Why do I need a "stupid app" and a whole load of finite things for the commands to go out and back to the same place like round the houses... the insanity!QuoteHe touched that like THREE times and it didn't seem to come on. I have those on my Siemens washing machine which is now 6 years old and it does seem to respond alright. Maybe they are making it as difficult or harder as they can to operate the panel to encourage buyers to use their phones to operate it.QuoteJust NO!It's a friggin DISH WASHER. My Siemens washing machines comes on in less than a second.I could understand if the WIFI lan stuff took time to start up but implemented in a way where it doesn't cause the machine to delay use after power on where that stuff is initially separate and independent of what the machine does until commanded to do things remotely but no.QuoteMaybe he should take it back NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE.They seem to care more about other things than what the dishwasher is there to do such as being made functional and easy to operate by the owner out of the box.He paid what he referred to as the "ceiling price" for this thing based on the previous reputation of Bosch and now it's like they are saying to him, to use these features first you have to crawl over here on your knees and kiss our a*se.Disappointing coming from Bosch.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:22:36 pm
content: Bah, I'll wait for the quantum version with AI cycles and required phone app. Also, for some reason, if I use store brand powder it will force an OS update on my desktop computer and refuse to open the door until I sign off on a 45 page EULA, which I won't be able to print because Brother detected the thrift store toner I use.Then the dishwasher will get bricked anyway when the latest features require more CPU power than the entire planet had in 1975. Maybe it will come with even brighter blue LEDs that wake me up at 3AM when the "heat dry" LED lights up half the ceiling.If I ever see a 1970s brown dishwasher with sea foam green interior and mechanical knobs, I'm taking it home...

author: Kharn_the_Betrayer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 06:41:57 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2025, 06:22:36 pmIf the LEDs don't wake you then you'll definitely wake up when it plays all of "Yankee Doodle Dandy" to let you know it's finished

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 07:28:22 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 25, 2025, 02:49:06 pmIt has nothing from what I suggested.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 07:30:47 pm
content: I see they are selling many more stuff with this sh*t built into it:https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/products/smart-appliances/homeconnect-fridges#tab-navigationQuoteDo they think the average home owners has got time or willing to catalogue every grocery they buy or scan it on a phone past an "app".Just with a little bit or memory on when I brought something and the use-by-dates couldn't be easier. I open my fridge many times a day and that would be burdensome.QuoteIt's like they assume their buyers have a short memory.https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/products/smart-appliances/homeconnect-washers-and-dryers#tab-navigationQuoteIt is NOT guess work for me when it is written on the detergent packaging on how much.*So they ASSUME that the buyer is stupid and things like this are all guesswork to them.** and now they are copying the words "EASY START" from HP where it'd start "HP SMART" setup which interfered with the ability to print and tell you you need to create an account if I remember it correctly:https://www.reddit.com/r/Hewlett_Packard/comments/y89rzk/hp_smart_app_now_requires_you_to_have_an_account/

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 08:31:10 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 25, 2025, 07:28:22 pmWhat do ya mean? You can control it with your cell phone. Think of the fun you could have at a party as the ladies take their usual break. Now, for the misting, that's the last thing I would want for a toilet. Think about that.I saw one first at a Lowes (as I recall) a few years ago. My immediate impression was not positive and definitely not worth the money. Plus, who needs and elongated toilet. Just learn to aim or lose some weight.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 08:36:36 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on March 25, 2025, 12:55:53 pmQuote from: jpanhalt on March 25, 2025, 02:49:06 pmI remember Louis Rossman talking about this in one of his videos when his "CLOUD FAN" in his new department stopped working, something about, if consumers put up with it they'd want to know everything, how you poo, they way you poo, the positioning of how you poo ,the shape of your poo and how it goes down etc.https://www.kohler.com/en/products/toilets/shop-toilets/veil-comfort-height-intelligent-skirted-one-piece-elongated-dual-flush-toilet-5401-pa?skuId=5401-PA-HB1QuoteWill this include a tailor request for a 9l high up overhead tank with a proper super intuitive 'can't be missed' toilet HANDLE to effectively flush the poo away?What I find more important is enough water and pressure to clean the toilet on flush not a 'Form over function' a sculpted curved one.https://www.kohler.com/content/dam/kohler-com-NA/Lifestyle/PDP-PDF/PDP-PDF-WF178350%20Smart%20Toilet%20Comparison%20Chart%20Update_FINAL.pdfQuoteSounds insane to me.When doing a pee or a poo I don't need these thing.I just want it to flush properly and that is all it has to do nothing else.I see many struggle to do that which would be the only thing I'd want to "transform" if anything.That way I won't NEED dependency of a battery it'd be gravity fed via the cistern.QuoteThat last one seems to have everything else:QuoteNow why would you need an ambient lights and a night light at the same time I wonder?Alexa? and speakers?Maybe for people who spend a lot of time in their bathrooms.What about pressure values I wonder.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 08:58:36 pm
content: Hey, Alexis, Play poop.I will try that next time I am at my daughter's home. There is no way I would have Alexis in my home. My cell phone is bad enough,which I turn off for days, and annoys my children.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 09:04:27 pm
content: Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on March 25, 2025, 06:22:36 pmI wouldn't mind that: I don't sleep in the kitchen so its not going to wake me up. Some dishwashers don't have any LEDs visible when closed (Miele) so you can't easily tell when its finished.Quote from: elektryk on March 25, 2025, 12:16:07 pmIts a trade off, touch buttons are easier to clean, and potentially more reliable long term. They are not used much on a dishwasher (just pressing Start once should be all that is needed).

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 09:11:55 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on March 25, 2025, 09:04:27 pmNot true anymore. My very old Maytag has several settings that I can change depending on load and the type of items in the load.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 09:58:34 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on March 25, 2025, 12:17:43 pmYou're talking about the consent/warning side of pushing some (unexpected) requirements for a product to operate.That topic is not mentioned anywhere in the quotes you took, which are instead talking about load shifting.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 10:01:43 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on March 25, 2025, 09:11:55 pmA good UI will remember the last used setting, and "auto" mode should have sensors that vary the washing time based on how much dirt is seen.I don't change the options ever, maybe others do.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 10:09:58 pm
content: Of course, it remembers the last setting, but I am not stuck in that rut.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2025, 11:44:34 pm
content: For someone tech savvy like Jeff Geerling, if he understands the situation and doesn't like it, he should return the item. I'm not sure if US consumer law has an applicable reason like "product doesn't function as advertised", certainly in AUS, that's what I'd be doing.He did mention a reverse engineering of the protocol giving some local control, however I would only accept that as a solution if the unit is priced like less than 50% of what it's currently sold for. It's a risk that Bosch will disable or sabotage that functionality in future.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 03:09:00 am
content: He said GE was the manufacturer of his old dish washer:QuoteLooks like General Electric are at it too:https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1j8ahee/my_new_oven_requires_a_wifi_connection_to_use_the/https://preview.redd.it/my-new-oven-requires-a-wi-fi-connection-to-use-the-v0-ku52korznxne1.jpegQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat if the WI-FI had no internet connection and I wonder what it will say about that.https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-Profile-30-Smart-Slide-In-Front-Control-Gas-Fingerprint-Resistant-Range-with-No-Preheat-Air-Fry-PGS930YPFS1 out of 5 star reviews:QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIf that was in the UK it could have been returned under the Sales of Goods Act I think if this requirement was not mentioned on the box and during sale as not described or does not perform to standards.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 11:27:56 am
content: And paid subscriptions for features are also already reality, e.g. Thermomix. Be smart and buy dumb!

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 12:23:49 pm
content: Maybe it's region dependent, but I just had a quick look at a UK online retailer which sells dishwashers. Whilst every Bosch dishwasher does feature Wi-Fi, they all come with front or in-door control panels which look to be able to access all of the functions, including Jeff's desired rinse mode. Also, no capacitive sensing! I wonder how good those capacitive buttons will be once the moisture, greasiness and soap residue from the dishwasher gets into that area. Because it -will- get in there, in my experience at least. Does seem like a rubbish design to me. Maybe the European market won't tolerate such rubbish!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 12:34:55 pm
content: I've nothing in principle against capacitive sensors - they have no moving parts, don't wear out, and can be fully sealed against moisture ingress, unlike physical buttons.

author: elektryk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 12:48:07 pm
content: I have touch buttons on my stove, they work ok as long as they are dry...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 01:33:16 pm
content: Quote from: Someone on March 25, 2025, 09:58:34 pmIt was a reply to message #9, probably I pressed the wrong button.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/dumb-dishwasher/msg5859895/#msg5859895

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 01:44:44 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 26, 2025, 12:34:55 pmI have haptic sensors on my car's steering wheel for cruise control and volume and they work fine, though some people don't like the feeling (they "click" but this is artificial using a vibrator/piezo somewhere under the buttons). However, they are definitely easier to clean. I remember the cruise control on my old Golf would get stuck on sometimes because one of the buttons started to stick, that's quite a dangerous fault. I was able to fix it, but I had to carefully prise the button off and remove the grime under it, then place it back.In a dishwasher where moisture and grease are an issue, I'm much less convinced they are an appropriate solution.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 01:59:58 pm
content: Quote from: elektryk on March 26, 2025, 12:48:07 pmAnd as soon as even a drop of water gets on the buttons, the whole thing goes haywire.At least mine does: All plates turn off, the buttons start blinking, and it goes "beep - beep - beep" until you can properly dry the button area. And sometimes you need to press and hold the power and the lock buttons at the same time for 5 seconds to get the thing working again.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 03:31:57 pm
content: It's inevitable, my induction hob is the same - but at least the effect is temporary. The top surface is a completely flat sheet of glass, totally impenetrable to grease and liquids, and very easy to clean. I'll take that over mechanical switches and buttons any day.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 03:45:20 pm
content: The hob we had when i was a kid was fully integrated with the oven below it. It was one of the first availble with a ceramic surface, and the knobs where at the front. One knob for each heating area, and two more in the middle for the oven.That had a completly closed surface. Usability-wise it was *leaps* ahead of these stupid touchbuttons.And while it is conceivable to have a large enough spill that it runs down the front of the oven and could creep into these knobs... This would be an issue anyway, since my current oven still has classic knobs.Though one reason i can think of - besides money - for the prevalence of touch buttons might be child safety.A knob is quickly turned by accident. The touchfield can be locked to prevent that and at least needs two actions to turn it on even if not locked.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2025, 03:54:43 pm
content: Quote from: madires on March 26, 2025, 11:27:56 amI think the manufacturers call these things smart because they think the consumers buying them are damn right stupid and confused that they won't tell you about wifi/internet requirements and think you'll create an account, sign in, download an app, sign into that just to use like the cleaning function. I believe that soon they'll be defending how important subscriptions are and how it brings down the cost of the appliance. If I call something smart is what I get it to do now what the manufacturer dictates or ASSUMES with no choice like they hijacked their own appliance compared to the one before without.Quote from: Ranayna on March 26, 2025, 01:59:58 pmI have a Siemens washing machine which has other problems but the buttons (behind see through the plastic) seem to work okay even wet.The only time it don't work is when dirt gets on it or grease and a bit of water seems to clear it.https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5648924?rec=PDP:bottomSlider:P1:OHAT:alternatives:5648924:HBNVNfLOlcPtYKiYgY5CQuoteI'd just want to push a few buttons on the machine to adjust settings whilst I am standing at the dishwasher and start. Why would I want to take out the phone, insert passcode or authentication, go to app.... a new low on STUPIDITY. That does not put my mind at ease and neither it is helpful because it adds burden.For them to tell the consumer... oh this will "put your mind at ease" whilst adding EXTRA BURDEN, now isn't that effectively calling the consumer stupid like I said before?If it said, extra features, configure and start your rinse cycle remotely with your phone/tablet/computer now that sounds more respectable to me.It'd be nice if I could program my own cycle with the timing, water level, spin, rinse and drain.As they seem to be trying to save water where there my existing one doesn't provide enough (apart from the rinse cycle) that I have to do fill it manually with hot water from the draw I doubt it. The one I have does not have a hot water inlet and the built in heater seems to take long to hear up. The washing machines before that gave me no problems before that and they all had hot water inlets.Oh look, the manufacturers now have feelings like they are the buyers of the products:https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/half-of-smart-appliances-remain-disconnected-from-internet-makers-lament/QuoteIt's an appliance with a built in mini computer inside that does not make it smart.I guess here refer to it as "smart" because they think the customers are stupid.* They DID understand maybe because it was not as practical to do it long ago and maybe they wouldn't have gotten away with it as easily.** The microwave has a screen on it with buttons. Why would i need to take something out which is a phone.*** How is that going to help them if they buy something and was not told it needs connectivity, a cloud account, subscriptions (above in the article) that restricts normal functionality if they refuse to it that they could do on their old oven.**** Unless it says "subscription", when I buy something with a set of features, I don't expect it to be changed behind my back with things added, features removed or altered where it might affect performance and my expectations that something is amiss.Oh look at our things, they're smart (smarter than you and you're stupid below the appliance), why aren't you using it to help you?I brought it, it's my appliance and non of your bloody business! to interfere and coerce.This isn't a television, a set top box or a streaming appliances it is a kitchen appliance with a motor or a heating element.Since when did they ASSUME any of this was their business.If the user wants to be left alone and they are not respecting it.If just seems outrageous to me.Found that video with Louis Rossman talking the poo and it reminded me of:Ford patents method to spy on drivers to push them ads; no, really...Louis Rossmann 2.19M subscribers87,480 views5 Sept 20248.5K down: 23QuoteI just wonder when this trend will end and they'd leave people alone with the goods they purchased..

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 01:07:59 am
content: Keep track of your time, and create a nice, INVOICE, and send the invoice along with return of the unit.Don't forget to charge, also, for your time spent on the invoice itself !Then, if you get annoyed enough, (and they haven't responded), sent the copy to local newspaper. Might even cause some free publicity, if you need advertisement.

author: Analog Kid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 02:08:26 am
content: Quote from: MrMobodies on March 26, 2025, 03:54:43 pmMeta-comment:I tried watching that video.Is it 1) that the video is sped up or 2) that Rossman is a tweaker? What's wrong with this guy?Slang term where I live for a methamphetamine user.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 03:05:31 am
content: Quote from: Analog Kid on March 28, 2025, 02:08:26 amHis brain runs fast, and his mouth tries very hard to keep up. Nothing wrong with that. Try not to be so judgemental.

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 03:31:54 am
content: House water heater operates in that restricted response mode: (in combination with 1948 windows, that leak heat, almost as bad as just opening it up to outside air.By the term 'cycling' I mean an apparent duty cycle, over a period of 2 minutes.Thus, one would ask, hearing heater shut off,..."WHY is it shutting off, only to re-ignite, less than 3 minutes later ? At 8 degrees below the set point temperature ?...The heater cycles, sometimes, for OVER THREE HOURS, before settling at stable set point. I think that's what the earlier post meant....A coolness preserving heater...(ahem)."Checking if person ran a FULL LOAD,...", yes well that would be our LANDLORD, here.Also...checks the actual heater setting; 66 • F is apparently the highest setting permitted.But he pays, so...

author: RJSV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2025, 03:49:17 am
content: Somebody just mentioned, BIDOT streams and adjusting temperature.(My latest idea):How about an 'ASS - CAM'. For, uhh, viewing 'upwards' into the action:..."Ohh, Fred - nice to see you."(Adjusting water)

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 01:52:57 am
content: capacitor sensors are shit, I two years ago my refrigerator (frigidair) change temps and ruin a whole drawer of food from what appears to be a drop of condensation from the gasket. Like entirely full of vacuum sealed steaks and stuff. I had no idea how long it was on 'beverage' mode instead of 'freezer' so I had to throw it all way.So it by itself1) undid the "lock"2) changed settings from 'freezer' to 'beverage chiller'.3) eventually got found when I happened to hear it change settings by itself (it makes a beep). I felt inside and of course it was all mushyso it can literally change settings.I happened to be a eating out and fresh food kick, so I neglected that drawer. It needs little maintenance because it was all vac sealed. It pissed me the fuck off because there was like a bunch of fillet mignon, t-bones, ribeyes, pork tenderloins, etc in there.I hate all those soft buttons too. I had the expensive tektronix MDO switch settings on me too from the hair trigger buttons while working on 'one time use only' sample measurements too (put on AC coupler some how, what a fuck load of explaining I had to do, because I am not gonna lie about reusing samples). I start to think that people who put weak switches on stuff consider errors to be acceptable....... my choice for that job would be a closet of knife switches to control the scope LOL. Perhaps the instinct of most is to lie to cover their ass so tektronix never gets the feedback ( with the trigger misbehavior I see, and the dodgy interface, I don't think they live up to their 'nuclear test ready' $$ reputation anymore. I can't just 'redo' the test unless a whole bunch of people put in the hours to build more samples for me, maybe they are thinking like computer programmers) .

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2025, 05:47:20 pm
content: I see LG had been at it for some time.https://uk.pcmag.com/computers-electronics/147733/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your-fridgeQuoteSmart revenue generating profits for themselves it seems.* My fridge does "home as a service" already but without Wifi. I plug it in, set the settings and it works, like a service until it breaks down.**They may have the AI come on just to advertise and they'd make you pay to shut it up.Imagine the children of tomorrow, talking to their kitchen appliances like their fridge, freezer, washing machine, microwave oven, dishwasher, toaster and kettle getting them answer their school homework and they'd have Alexa communicate through them, interact and start a conversation between the appliances.https://www.reddit.com/r/Appliances/comments/1aed3im/dishwashers_without_smart_technology/QuoteThis person accepting this is nonsense. "Wel'll just move 'the button' for rinsing 'to the cloud", the mass majority don't use buttons anymorethey are old fashioned and not modern not newer, not pretty, not trendy, not good = very bad etc".UTTER BULLSHIT!Dishwashers do not need to be set to 'use the programs' via a whole load of things, (wifi -> router -> internet -> manufacturer website & service -> up to date mobile phone) when that's what the buttons were for.QuoteSo off to the skip and all that money wasted instead of returning it and making demands to Bosch.So Bosch care more about that crap than the reliability of the buttons and operation of the machineIt is a shame Bosch has stooped this low and they're don't seem to be the cheapest.Makes me wonder whether this is a political decision from the company's vision to manipulate and lock features and customers into things.

author: passedpawn
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 12:53:51 pm
content: I installed that exact same Bosch 500 model a few months ago. I had the exact same thoughts as the vlogger in the 1st post. I resisted the temptation to connect to WiFi and internet. Yes, as a techy it kills me to not make available some features, but I have moved on.The one feature that I really want to enable is the CLEAN light. This white LED comes on when the cycle is finished. However, mine has never come on. I think the app lets you enable this and the duration it's on. Presumably, Bosch defaults to off because if the energy to illuminate the LED for a couple of hours is used, a tree dies in an Amazon forest. There are other indications the cycle is done, so not a biggie.My previous KitchenAid DW had an incoloy heating element in the basin. The Bosch does not, and instead relies on hot water and evaporation for drying. This does work, almost as well as the heating element. That old element would occasionally melt things like Tupperware. One day, we returned to a smokey smell in the kitchen. That element had failed to turn off and all the DW rubber acoustical insulation had melted and burned. It think a thermal fuse blew, avoiding a fire.

author: Langdon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2025, 01:26:53 pm
content: Wet dish hands + iPhone = broken iPhone.Whatever.It's quiet!And efficient.My ~16yrso. Bosch dishwasher has weak dish racks that can shatter.I had to repair one with copper wire.(normal cable ties would totally melt)The newer models don't seem to have that issue.Bosch is still vastly superior to crappy Frigidaire!