new prototype - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 03:57:31 pm
content: i started a small idea that turned in to quite a big and successful design comprising of a1 Arduino Mega1 Adafuit Fona2 power regulators 3.5v & 5v1X mp3 Midi Sound Player & Separate Speaker5X LED1X Touch Screen with a programmed GUI.now i designed this product to help me as i am disabled and i needed a way to control certain aspects of my home and also alert relatives when i am in trouble.i have been told i can get some backing for this item as someone says its a good idea but i dont really know how to break down all the dev boards to design my PCB.has anyone any ideas on how to go forward with this

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 04:26:31 pm
content: What do you mean by break the dev boards down ? do you mean reverse engineer them so that you can do a single PCB ? some stuff is available like the arduino boards have scematics published. Alternatively you could make a main board for all of these dev boards to plug into to make it more productionable.

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 06:46:50 pm
content: oh OK so i was thinking it would not be cost effective to just plug in arduino boards and the other dev boards i usedif this is the case this would be great as i didnt really think this would be something for the open marketit was just for me because i could

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 06:57:17 pm
content: Well it comes down to the cost of the units you are using that are cheap because they are mass produced and the cost of duplicating them all on one PCB for what sounds like a niche market. if you want to go full blown commercial with this you would be looking at having boards assembled proffesionally and you need to make batches of 50+ ideally 100+ to make the setup costs worth it. On the other hand a "motherboard" is something you might be able to assemble by hand. It really depends on your aspirations for the product.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 09:13:54 pm
content: For the Arduino Mega part you could pretty much only use the ATMega chip with a few additional component (a crystal, a few resistor and a few caps. As Arduino is open hardware and open source, you should be able to strip off all extra stuff easily.For the Fona part it's no point stripping that down, only need to solder pins to it.I would design the whole thing on a breadboard, and after that, design a PCB based on a working schematics.Edit: Arduino boards come in different shapes and sizes, I recommend you check them all out as the Mega board is huge.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 10:21:44 pm
content: Yes the arduino could easily be replicated as there is not much to it if you sort out the programming section desperately.Sent from my phone so mind the autocorrect.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 12:17:20 am
content: You can separate the Atmel chip and the Sim800? on the Fona.The MP3 might be a bit difficult depending on the chip / module.It's not about being "cost effective" with plugging modules together, it's more about looking "professional", for a prototype i'd try making a board, it also makes it more difficult for someone to copy your product.I'm in the UK and I have bought several modules etc from Ali and Ebay with no issues.Can you give more info on your design?

author: alanb
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 02:53:16 pm
content: If your design works and you have a working prototype, before you spend any money or further time on the project you need to start investigating the commercial and financial aspects. Amongst the questions that you need to answer are1 How big is the potential market2 What unit price can it be sold for3 What backing is available?4 If backing not available how much of your own money can you afford (or are able to risk) on this venture.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 08:23:46 pm
content: Quote from: alanb on December 29, 2016, 02:53:16 pmReally good points but if I understood correctly this design is for personal use only, not for commercial. :-)Only real reason to NOT just plug and play the components together would be to make the final device more compact and more reliable. What I mean by reliable is that everything would be soldered to a PCB, thus eliminating loose connections. Based on the authors comments I assume this device could be a life saver after all, so reliability should be top priority.

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 09:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: slicendice on December 28, 2016, 09:13:54 pmthere was a reason i picked the mega due to the resorses the other boards didn't servei did dtart with a uno then moved to another board then ended up with a mega (cant exactly remember why) i just evolved to it the more i added

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 09:33:26 pm
content: Quote from: alanb on December 29, 2016, 02:53:16 pm1 the disabled and vulnerable2 between £800 And £1200 and may be more with extras3 a local business man4 Not very much

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 09:35:06 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on December 29, 2016, 12:17:20 amid love to but i think i may have said too much on here as i have been told to keep ful details as quiet as possiblebut i am thinking i am needing more development help now. due to tech reaching my knowledge limits

author: tpowell1830
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 09:45:39 pm
content: Quote from: dmkmedia on December 29, 2016, 09:35:06 pmFor what you are describing, you may could reach out to Adafruit to help with that.PEACE===>T

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 10:51:41 pm
content: How many do you plan to make ? this is what is crucial with deciding which way to go.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2016, 12:01:48 am
content: You have to be doubly careful that your local backer isn't out to gain financially from your idea!Trust me, it's not pretty when they take your ideas and try and get them made on their own!There are all sorts of automated aids for the disabled and vulnerable that can be designed with simple components, it's finding a market / buyer for them that is the main issue, rather than someone "stealing" your idea, particularly on here!Do you have a working prototype?You say you need more "development" help? What kind of dev help?

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2016, 07:40:56 am
content: yes i do have a working prototypedevelopment as in i want to use integration in to Z-Wave but im not 100% up on this tech and told i may need to get a licence from Z-Wave. so it may have to wait and the program could do with tidying upand i will need to know more about compliance testingalso there are some safety features in like polarity reversal protection and over heating protection.also there is a wireless button involved here and at the moment the distance is 2 miles. im not sure if this is legal in the uk it may be a little to powerful for a pendent

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2016, 09:41:28 pm
content: Ah I see, Z-Wave is proprietary isn't it?Home automation is what Z-Wave is all about I believe, though I prefer to actually press a switch to turn my light on than tit around with an "app".2 Miles?! Depends on the frequency and power output, I think 868/869 can have up to 0.5W of power and can transmit a fair distance using LoRA, probably Line of Sight though.You could have a look at SigFox if you want something a bit more, I expect it might be a bit too large for a useful pendant though.What are you using that transmits around 2 miles?

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2017, 11:04:45 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on December 30, 2016, 09:41:28 pmhttps://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/radio-modules-c10/rf-telemetry-module-sil-package-868mhz-p392it took me a long time to find these and managed the get the transmitter reduced down in to a wearable and the receiver is as you see it on the site.but theses are great just to send a quick signal to the base unit from a distancei tested it by pinging a regular signal from home the driving around my local town until i lost the signal

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 12:01:23 am
content: You get around 2 miles @ 13dBm? It looks like it uses similar technology to LoRA, not cheap though.According to them you should get nearly 10 miles from the unit (16km)!Is that line of sight? It's always interesting to see real world tests on RF modules.When you say you managed to "get the transmitted reduced down" you mean RF Solutions did this for you or you used a different transmitted / transceiver?

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 12:05:27 am
content: Because of the curvature of the earth there is a fairly small maximum distance for line of sight (assuming the earth is perfectly flat) Its just a few Km assuming average height communicators and antennas not elevated much above that. So to get more range antenna has to go higher.

author: dmkmedia
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 12:20:34 pm
content: Quote from: Wilksey on January 02, 2017, 12:01:23 ami spoke to rf solutions and they devised something for me the work they were really good once they knew what i neded

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2017, 10:44:19 pm
content: That makes sense. I've spoken to them a few times and they seem quite helpful.Have you asked them about designing something for you?