Question about fume extraction. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 11:27:17 pm
content: Since I got a lot of great advice on soldering equipment, figured I'd get some opinions on fume extractors.In my situation my bedroom is also my little workspace, and unfortunately my window is taken up by my A/C, bearing in mind I don't do high volume soldering, I just doodle around with retro consoles, etc soldering chips in or de soldering.Probably not the most ideal, but I do have everything more situated in a corner facing away from the rest of my stuff, but still, I want to get something for fume extraction before I start really using anything, I have one of those small charcoal filter Hakko clones. But I think just for the safety of my health and to kinda keep stuff off the walls, etc, I want to get something a bit better, if nothing else for peace of mind and all.I've read around and seen differing opinions on solutions, but I was also looking at a couple of products that I saw, there was a Chinese model from Refox I believe, but I was more looking at the AOYUE FEK-01, but I haven't seen much about it, and I think it's relatively new to the market, and then there is a model from Quick, the 6101A1 that are at what I would call a decent price point and you can actually buy filters for them, unlike the Chinese ones which I could never find replacements for, so I strayed away from looking at those models anymore, with the exception of the Refox RFE-100 model.I've been leaning towards the Quick, but I'm not sure, so I just thought I would see what others thought about the options and get some opinions and then go from there.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 11:40:37 pm
content: You can build one, if you're so inclined:

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2021, 11:50:43 pm
content: For "doodling around" I think the Hakko FA400 or its Pace/Weller/etc equivalents is probably enough. Most flux fumes will be caught quickly in activated carbon. The Quick 6101A1 is a much heavier solution for production use.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 02:19:27 am
content: I use one of these at work, easier to get it in the right place than the versions that sit on your desk.https://www.altronics.com.au/p/t1297-micron-fume-extractor-desk-swing-arm/Duratool do a similar/same extractorI added some LED strip lights to the inside of the hood so it can light up whatever I have it sitting over

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 02:52:27 am
content: Definitely appreciate the opinions so far, definitely two of my main concerns since my bedroom is also my workspace, and where I usually eat (not at my table that I use for soldering of course, haha) is keeping the fumes down and keeping it from being blown into the walls or something, and it's fairly close to my PC desk, just facing towards the wall, and I'm not sure how well those carbon filters work, because I've read varying opinions on those as well.I might be getting a bit overly cautious, I do like the clamp fan option as well, but my other main concern was not having a window that can be open, as an AC unit takes it up, which led me to looking at fume extractors on the higher end to kinda filter the air.Definitely appreciate the responses so far, giving me a lot of food for though on the best route to go.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2021, 11:24:39 pm
content: I do have the clone version of the FA400 coming from Banggood, I've heard it's pretty good overall, but then I started thinking that I'm literally working on stuff in my bedroom, even if not a whole lot, so that got me more concerned with my health, and keeping residue that maybe the filter doesn't catch from getting on the walls or anything else in basically my living space (not sure how true, but I've read that those filters are not the greatest at catching it all or helping with the smell as much, but that's why I appreciate the people in this forum giving me insight to things I'm still learning about and reading up on), might be slightly being overly paranoid, which had me looking at at least the Aoyue and the Quick options as they are the lower cost ones that I can find.Would probably be less of a concern if I had a better way to pull fresh air in, but window AC unit makes it a bit harder to do that unfortunately.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 01:09:50 am
content: For cleaning the air in your room, look at HEPA air purifiers. I had a Honeywell at one time and it worked pretty well.https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hepa+air+purifier

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 01:28:44 am
content: That's actually an idea I hadn't considered as well, appreciate that suggestion, did not even dawn on me to consider that as well, do you think using the FA400 with charcoal filters and then using a HEPA air purifier would be a good combo?I'm assuming at low volume it would keep any residue from getting on my walls or coming back towards the other side of my room at least, although I'm also going with that assumption that it would take high volumes of output to actually throw any amount of smoke out that could leave a residue on walls or anything, and the fact I'd be wiping my lil work area down after using it as well.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 02:19:25 am
content: So, filter media for volatile chemicals and particles are different. Volatile chemicals stick well to activated carbon, and particles stick to HEPA filters (High Efficiency Particulate Arrestance). An industrial extractor like the Quick has three filters inside: a prefilter to catch dust, a HEPA filter for particulates, and a carbon filter for chemicals, in that order. Rosin flux fumes are mainly volatile chemicals (abietic acid etc) and contain some particles of char. Other types of work have their own composition.In terms of risk, the rosin VOCs are not so toxic themselves, but can cause a delayed hypersensitivity. By not breathing them in, they won't hypersensitize you, so you can continue to use them.The char particles are pretty much like what you would get from burning a candle and aren't a huge deal. It's always better not to breathe in smoke, but I would be highly surprised if you saw any difference on the walls.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 02:35:41 am
content: Interesting, thanks for that bit of info.So it sounds like I could just get away with the FA400 clone I ordered already with that activated carbon filters to keep it away from my face and keep any residue from getting everywhere, and to not breathe it in, and just snag a HEPA room purifier (which I honestly need anyway since it gets dusty and all that and messes with my sinuses) and that would also get rid of any smell for the most part and freshen up the air.Definitely learned a bit there, was just going by the knowledge that I'm basically in a not well ventilated room, aside from I can open my room door to let new air in of course, but just in general.If I'm understanding everything correctly. In other words the Quick would probably be about 400$ of overkill that probably isn't really needed?Appreciate the info, and like I said, definitely have learned a bit more than I knew before, even watching YT and reading other things, it always leaned towards you should have an extractor if you're in a small space like I am, but there was no consensus if you needed the Quick type or just a normal small fan one, I guess it boils down to what you want to spend and what you are doing and your space.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 07:07:53 am
content: Decent ventilation is always important, but occasional soldering isn't going to change the need for ventilating to a huge extent. There are other bench activities that are much more critical regarding air exchange: for example, the application of conformal coatings releases a great deal more toxic vapor. You also should be mindful of what is in your cleaning chemicals.If you feel that the air in a room is stuffy at all, you need to get more fresh air in. Ideally you would have at least 5 changes of air per hour. Filtering the stale air will reduce dust, but the balance between O2 and CO2 will keep getting worse, and indoor pollution of the chemical kind (particularly CO and CH2O) will stay high.Before central air conditioning, offices had transoms! An interesting bit of trivia is that central air conditioning is what allowed skyscrapers to be built. Before AC, offices had to leave windows open for sufficient air exchange, and the higher you go, the more wind blows everything around! That was also what led to the popularity of paperweights.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 07:36:50 am
content: Interesting, did not know that little bit of trivia, definitely makes sense though.And my idea for air exchange was to open my bedroom door with a fan blowing in, just a regular floor fan, but it'll pull air from outside the room in, which would be fresh. And I don't see myself soldering every single day, maybe every so often when I have things I want to fix/mod or practice more, if I was fixing things and having to solder all day long, I'd definitely come up with a better idea.I can only imagine how toxic some of those other things could be.I think my biggest fear was having those flux fumes lingering around, or from reading/watching videos and opinions that those little fans like the FA400 were useless due to the filters being not fine enough or something like that, and then there's the Louis Rossman video where honestly if you don't know too much and you see what is in his machine and hear what he's saying it will almost make you even more fearful that the small one isn't enough, even for small occasional soldering, so even myself I started thinking that I needed something like a Quick or the new AOYUE one that's out now to be safer.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 07:55:58 am
content: Louis Rossmann is using very smelly fluxes. And they serve a purpose when you are reworking highly miniaturized circuits.But ordinary rosin fluxes do not have such a fearsome smell. Walking outside past a building burning wood in a fireplace smells stronger. And if you avoid breathing in the smoke as it rises directly from the work, what remains later is hardly noticeable.Which is not to say there's no argument for smoke extraction, but outside of a 40-hr/wk occupational environment the hazard is low. You will gain the perspective to judge what measures are appropriate with more experience. By all means, do not deliberately inhale flux fumes, but by avoiding doing that you are safe from reasonably anticipated problems.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 08:09:59 am
content: Appreciate all the insight, and I definitely do not plan on inhaling any fumes, which is why I picked up the FA400 clone from Banggood to keep the smoke away from my face, and for doing retro consoles it'll mostly just be 60/40 leaded solder (I've read leaded is better, and that it's not quite as bad as lead free overall in terms of melting temps, and it's probably be best since most of the stuff I'd be working with is from the 80s era, etc).And as you stated I'll get a better idea of what measure are better appropriate with more experience, etc, but looking at it with all the insight you've given me, etc, a small charcoal extractor like I have coming should be good for what I'm doing right now, and if I started wanting to do more and more longer then I should probably consider the Quick or one of the other units just due to the smaller confined space and working atmosphere that I have, as well as opening the door and flushing in air from outside the room of course.Definitely needed the opinions on it, because more here have experience with the differing types, so I was pretty sure someone would be able to say, which would work better or be more wise for the current scenario vs the other. And I was getting down to the coin flip method, haha.All the insight is greatly appreciated, can read stuff all day long, but talking to others who actually have more hands-on or knowledge definitely helps.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 09:24:23 pm
content: Is this window air conditioner such a tight fit you can't slide the upper sash down (assuming double hung window) a couple inches or slide the air unit to one side to fit an exhaust port?

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 18, 2021, 09:26:37 pm
content: No problem!Another thing to plan for is used solder disposal and hand cleaning. After cleaning the iron, and after desoldering, there will be little solder bits that accumulate over the bench. You want a convenient receptacle for these that will keep them contained and off the floor. Something like a 2gal polypropylene waste basket would be nice.One way to keep your hands clean is to wear nitrile gloves, like Ansell Microflex, QRP Qualatrile, etc. I would try to get a major brand because the cost is low and you can rely on the quality. You should only use nitrile or cotton gloves for electronics because other materials can generate static electricity. You select a size by measuring the circumference of your palm.Having waterless hand cleaner (Fast Orange, etc) at the bench can also be nice, not just for lead solder but when repairing grimy old equipment. It's not as effective as a bar of Lava soap and a nail brush, but it obviates a trip to the sink and dirty handprints on door handles...If you use isopropyl alcohol to clean boards, it can also be useful to enhance soap's hand cleaning performance. Just a spritz is needed.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2021, 02:46:11 am
content: Yeah, unfortunately with this window unit, had to seal it all in place to make it more weatherproof, has the side sliders that didn't want to stay and seal up good, so had to seal around it to stop drafts and to keep the cold air in, last hurricane we had come through pretty much made sealing it up a requirement due to some damage that had to be fixed.And appreciate that advice about the gloves ad all too helius, I usually always have some nitrile gloves around because I use that for oil changes, etc so I've got gloves covered for sure. And I will definitely pick up a waste basket and some Fast Orange, like you suggested, for sure want to have one of those for clean up, very glad you mentioned all that, sometimes tend to focus on the major stuff and then forget about the small stuff until you start and realize... uh oh, haha.And just outta curiosity, any best brands for solder, guessing Kester 60/40 is probably the best way to go, or are there some other brands that are good as well?

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 20, 2021, 11:40:33 pm
content: Definitely appreciate all the advice, and definitely good solutions/ideas for what I'm doing not, but if I was to decide to ramp up how much I do this in the future (wouldn't be crazy output, but let's say a few hours a day fixing/modifying retro video games, which would be a bit of soldering and de-soldering) and you were picking between them, would you go for the Quick 6101A, the Hakko FA430 or the Weller ZeroSmog EL?Surprisingly few YT videos or anything on the subject honestly, or at least from what I've seen, the Quick doesn't seem to have HEPA, at least from any description I've found, but does use a 3-stage, but I would most likely rule it out due to lack of a HEPA filter.The Weller seems like the best all around, but lower suction than the others (but I think that's probably negligible in a small environment?), but most likely still suitable for a small production environment without super good ventilation, but I'm not sure of the support life for Weller products, but I know you can get filters for that one easily.The Hakko, seems a bit overpriced for what it is, but does seem to have the best suction, is maybe the best quality made one? and Hakko I would assume would have a better support life-span for their products.So it comes down to is the question which is better price vs performance or which in general would most choose if they were going to?It's Saturday and I needed a good hypothetical, ha-ha.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 21, 2021, 12:17:25 am
content: You might be waiting for some time to hear from anyone who has used one or more of those systems.I can't say that I see the utility, but choosing between such systems is largely a matter of the TCO (total cost of ownership) when you factor in replacement media or spare parts. There may also be differences in noise level.Some systems (like the Pace ArmEvac) can be adapted to different uses by changing the filter. Pace sells both a particulate filter for flux absorption, and a heavy carbon filter for adhesives or other chemicals. This could also be a selling point depending on your needs.

author: Zai Kajou
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2021, 02:40:24 am
content: Understandable, not exactly something most hobbyist would pick up I'm sure.Looks like I'll be able to give my own opinion of it's usefulness here soon, my other half decided that if I'm going to play around with this stuff and not have a window I can open all the time (since my A/C takes up the window in the space I have to work in) then I was going to do it as safely as possibly, haha, so I have a Hakko on the way (after comparing everything it seemed better all around, lower noise, and better suction, etc.).Which in the end, was still expensive, but fairly low price from TEquipment and with a discount compared to the normal price, so in the end for peace of mind it was worth the investment for me personally anyways, between having a less ventilated area than I would like to have for it and have allergies and everything else (so really don't want to be breathing flux fumes), just all around safety and peace of mind, and I know Hakko supports their products for awhile, at least from what I've seen.

author: helius
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2021, 09:11:26 pm
content: Yeah, if I was sleeping in the same place I was soldering I would be thinking carefully about it as well. Particulates in the 10 µm range have been associated with all kinds of negative health effects. Flux smoke doesn't containthatmany of them but a little is worse than none at all.No aromatic candles or incense sticks either...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2021, 09:21:20 pm
content: I would get s double window fan that allows you to reverse the motors, so you can have it exchanging the air one blowing out one blowing in. Most of the fume extractors dont actually remove pollutants from the air or replace the stale air with fresh air. No filters are needed to do this, just a fan.You can use some flexible duct to catch the smoke from a appropriate spot, ideally behind your soldering area so it draws the smoke from the soldering iron away from your face.Filters are expensive and often not so useful because it would take large ones containing substantial amounts of activated charcoal to actually do anything and they only last (as far as VOC removal per dollar euro, kopeck, peso, talent, ringgit,yuan, rupee, etc. for a short time unless kept in a closed container when not in use. also the massive static pressure required to draw enough air through these kinds of filters means powerful fans and big motors, which don't come cheap. Since a window is handy, you dont need any of this, just two fans. exhaust the stale air outside, it wont hurt anybody diluted like that. Bring fresh air in. Air exchange will also reduce risks of respiratory illness or contagious diseases better than anything else.If you want to get the fresh air year round, and save on heat and AC costs as well as health.. try something like this: