most obnoxious EEVBLOG reoccuring topics?  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:21:14 pm
content: renamed thread!So I am sure that everyone that has been on the forum for a while eventually gets annoyed at seeing the same discussion popping up all the time. I thought we could put some sarcasm into this thread and discuss which topics we hate. Is it the 99999th "help me pick a multimeter" thread? Is it the "help me build a spectrum analyzer that beats Agilent specs for 25$ and a pack of bubble gum?"My personal favorite is the dreaded analog vs digital oscilloscope surprise. This should could pop up anywhere analog oscilloscopes are mentioned enough times, its kind of like Beetlejuice or Bloody Mary. Someone asks about the merits of using an analog scope, and being the reasonable guy that Dave Jones is, he says there is non. However the greybeard army is quickly alerted to this desecration and they come out in force to defend their idol. The rigol is burned at the cross for the transgressions of 1980's DSO's against obscure analog measurements relating to obscure equipment relating to obscure people living inobscure towerswifes basements(Rapunzel Rapunzel let down your grey beard). Pictures are posted, arguments are made but in the end no one gives a shit and the thread dies an ugly death, just like the analog oscilloscope. One thing is for certain, it is a dinosaur parade every time, complete with pictures of old shit taken with a digital camera.I made a picture about this freak occurrence, it is called "Day of the grey beard"Post yours!I fear the greybeard army will invade this thread...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:28:07 pm
content: Um...My least favorite is when X and Y argue. X is right and Y are idiots. Insult, insult. Discuss.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:28:46 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 05:28:07 pmoh have some fun %-Beveryone here is so seriousthe invasion has begun!

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:37:10 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on March 22, 2013, 05:21:14 pmThere is at least one indisputable advantage of the CRO though: price per MHz. There, I started this again. And no, I don't have any CROs, I gave mine away years ago (it was only 5 or 10 MHz and weighed around 15 kilos). As a note, if you measure just the power usage of a really old CRO (around 80-120W) the savings in electricity would cover the cost of a DSO in about 25 years (~5 cents saving per 4h usage).I think the multimeter theme is recurring, and I'm still searching for one, but don't dare to ask.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:41:15 pm
content: man from now on I am going to call analog oscilloscope threads Eric Draven's. Fans of the movie should know what I mean.ITS NOT YOUR TIME TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

author: bradleytron
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 05:51:32 pm
content: Very funny!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:02:17 pm
content: Oh, I'm not trying to be cranky, I smiled. I argue all the time.My two cents: 1) Analog oscilloscopes are the best. I'm right. 2) I don't understand the "best multimeter" discussion. They're all similar within a price range. Shut up and buy one already.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:25:33 pm
content: Not if you already have two or three  lying around and are just thinking of getting another.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:29:15 pm
content: Rehashing something that was only discussed last day/week in a multipage thread. Like how do I use the "Search" function, it's not like it is the third item next to "Home" and "HELP" and visible at the top of each page.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:30:37 pm
content: TBH, the search function sucks.

author: Kaluriel
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:32:11 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 06:30:37 pmIf i fail to find it in search, I use google to search these forums instead

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:32:26 pm
content: Just as bad has to be the "which cheap-ass, nasty POS Chinese scope is best?" debate. The one that starts with "I've found this Wun-hung-lo 20 Mhz model and it's really, really cheap... please tell me it's OK really and that I can do X with it", even though X is undefined, and ends with "I've bought it despite the fact that it's made from re-used components by enslaved children in an underground factory, now please tell me how to hack it to 150MHz".I agree on the multimeter thing too. Are you exceptionally thick and/or careless with your tools? Then you need a meter that's built like a tank - otherwise you probably don't. And are you planning on shoving the probes into the mains? That tells you how concerned you need to be about the thickness of the case and its ability to contain the blast from a vapourising PCB track.Andy's rule of thumb: if the scope you're thinking of costs less than 5x the price of the meter you're also thinking of, then you either have something specific in mind that you don't need internet advice on, or you've got it wrong.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:43:18 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on March 22, 2013, 06:29:15 pmThen this means that user feedback reports that usability is low. It's a place for improvement, at least that's how I see it. Still, there are at least two search possibilities and there's google's "site:" directive as well. It would be nicer to have something like on XDA or StackExchange where if you want to start a new thread you get suggestions about similar threads already opened.Still, TBH, I think all the forum implementations on the market suck from a usability perspective, web technologies have evolved a lot since the initial development but they are not using any of those. If you want more you are most likely stuck to writing your own code on top of the existing one.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:47:56 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 22, 2013, 06:32:26 pmI think that's only sensible if you're buying new equipment. Buying used stuff as I usually do, I see a vast range of different devices with different capabilities all selling for around the same price. (I usually use bench meters, and I have seen ancient 2000-count ones with no data output capability sell for the same price as a late-80s/early-90s Fluke or HP.) Out of all my test equipment (the real, electronic stuff, of course, not little things like probes), I don't think I have anything that costs 5x as much as anything else, and I have a pretty general-purpose setup. It's not specialized at all.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:49:26 pm
content: Believe it or not I get tired answering the same questions about multimeters too. That is why I have tried to make a list of BAD multimeters and a list of recommended ones. I think I will try to expand the recommended list to a bit more detail and a few more meters. I am always tempted to just point the newbies to the relevant threads with a statement like "Search the F^$%#*&$ forum you lazy...." but that is not a good way to help people so I grind on.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:50:49 pm
content: To actually answer the question, I don't really think I "hate"anytopics. I can always just ignore ones that don't interest me, like "pick a multimeter for me #542" and "my oscilloscope is better than yours #243". I've never understood why it bothers people so much to see things they don't care about in a list from which they are not required to click on every topic.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 06:53:25 pm
content: Well, I have two 10$ meters, one of them was bought for 5$ and the other one gotten for free. And then another bench meter which has almost the same specs but costed about 20$. I do need a higher precision meter but I know I have to look at over 70$, while my old meters are still doing their job perfectly fine, most of the time. Tools do not bring knowledge, but they do save time if you are earning money from this. I'm definitely not.However, is that time better spent elsewhere than dicking around with your tools? Probably for anyone who is not a student anymore, yes.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:05:21 pm
content: I need to buy a bundle of those cheap ass multimeters so I can play PSPICE in real life.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:15:27 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 06:47:56 pmOK, fair comment. What I'm getting at is the apparent "wisdom" that your multimeter needs to be able to survive nuclear armageddon - including protecting you from the blast in the process - but that it's OK for your scope to be the nastiest, slowest, blockiest piece of crap you can find and (and then hack for more bandwidth that you'll never use).I used a £5 meter for years. It's accurate, has survived a life in the bottom of my toolbox with no issues at all, and since I only work on safe, low voltage products, it's perfectly suitable for its purpose. I have better kit now, but mainly because specific jobs I've been hired to do have required it.

author: StevenB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:16:52 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 06:50:49 pmI was thinking the exact same thing.However, I have noticed in my short time here that there are quite a bit of repeditive questions. I can easily skip them, though.

author: Sionyn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:19:43 pm
content: the zombie picture of dave is awesome that should start off a put dave's face on something meme

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:20:17 pm
content: My most hated discussion? "PIC vs AVR"-a-like discussions.They tend to start from someone's schematic check topic , where people have such a preference for one type everyone must follow it.

author: StevenB
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:22:20 pm
content: QuoteI think the decision on buying:cheap scope / expensive meterorexpensive scope / cheap meteris highly dependent on what you plan to be designing / troubleshooting.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:22:37 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 22, 2013, 07:15:27 pmI wish that the 4th Indiana Jones movie had a fluke logo on the refrigerator.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:22:57 pm
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 22, 2013, 07:15:27 pmThis obsession with multimeter safety confuses me too. How many of us are electricians? If you're an electrician using a Wun Hung Lo multimeter, yes, bad things will happen, but the vast majority of us will never have occasion to need that safety. The last time I popped a multimeter fuse it was with a 3V current-limited supply - HRC my ass, I could have used 1mm of bare fuse wire sitting in front of my face and been safe.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:24:57 pm
content: Quote from: hans on March 22, 2013, 07:20:17 pmI may be the only person wholikesthese discussions. I think it's interesting to see why people prefer one to the other, whether or not they are being truly objective. Analog vs. digital scope too.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:27:36 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on March 22, 2013, 07:05:21 pmI do have enough of them. Was going to connect the OHL analogue meter to the mains, but the battery died in the blister pack ( bought last month) so I will have to go get another battery to blow it up with first. Think this time I will do a test on the NST, 15kV at 30mA will be fun, a slow lingering death. Wonder which range I should have it on to begin with.

author: brainwash
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:31:43 pm
content: You have to understand that quality matters in different places for different people. Dave's the "multimeter guy" so it's only natural that he is a bit biased for that. Others are into tweezers and screwdrivers. I would pay more for an older car with a nice brand than for a new car with more options.This goes on on every forum in existence for: computer cases, bicycles, RC helicopters, guitar pickups, flashlights, star wars memorabilia, condoms (really!), air and fuel filters and let's not forget audiophile.Does it matter? It only allows people like us having a job designing quality products and worrying about what we care most. With the money that the job provides we can worry about buying our preferred "quality" stuff.All these meter/scope discussions make me thirsty, I'm out now to have a quality beer. Too bad there are not so many people at the bar to discuss these topics, I have to resort to mainstream topics like music and cars.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:38:38 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 07:24:57 pmFrom a content point of view, it's fine. You get to hear experiences from others with certan tools, but when a discussion is fueled purely on "I use X because I like it more than Y or Z", it's useless. That's why I took the PIC vs AVR example , because it's the most well known discussion where there are basically 3 camps: AVR fans, PIC fans and people with no preferences.For example: I was using microcontroller X in my project and was having reception errors on the UART. My lecturer (out of boredom) joined, came to the conclusion the UART errors should be handled/reset, and it was working fine after that. He commented :"use microcontroller Y in your next project, you don't have these issues with the UART"Next month, they were using this microcontroller Y (a fresh new batch) in another project and they encountered about 2 silicon bugs with their UART. Incorrect baud rates and glitches. Only took the students about 2 days (out of their allocated 8 for their project) to figure out it's not their fault but a silicon bug. Nice!

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:41:42 pm
content: One beer says the faulty micro was a PIC...

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 07:53:07 pm
content: But I don't care if it is useless, I will just ignore it then. Complaining about it is equally useless.

author: grumpydoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 08:16:47 pm
content: Quote"best" is such an ill defined specification.....

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 08:19:24 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 22, 2013, 07:22:57 pmMultimeter safety still has its place here even if most people think they will never use their meters for anything high energy. Some people here do play with high energy or high voltages. Some people will buy a meter without thinking about the safety aspect and then when they need to measure a wall socket of something in the main panel maybe it could be an issue when the $5 "830" model meter is what they have to use. Awareness and information is never a bad thing.Another point is, when a manufacturer labels a meter safe for a certain use or labels it with CAT ratings and they are lying, it is also an indication that they are also cutting corners in the other parts that people care about like accuracy and durability.Of course these discussion almost always escalate into nit picking wars and I understand how that is annoying, even though I fall for the trap myself.But like I said, I get annoyed sometimes when you will see three new threads posted on the same day asking the same questions that were answered yesterday in three other similar threads. This happens on every forum, not just here and in every subject you can think.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2013, 08:56:22 pm
content: You don't need CAT IV rating when you are this guy.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 12:45:02 am
content: Speaking bout microcontrollers, theres always one crazy guy who says 8-bit micros are dead, and ARM is the way to go. And lets not forget about "that guy" that prefers ST microcontollers.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 12:57:24 am
content: Oh, and there's always that topic where a guy asks about soldering station. The Hakko clones are always mentioned. And there comes an old fashioned greybeard saying Weller is the way to go. He has used the same Weller for 20 years and by coincidence that model is still on sale. Then an EEVBlog fan mentions the Hakko fx-888. Then an American comes along and tells the op to buy it from Harbor Freight or some name like that (I'm sure the name had an F somewhere). Then an Australian rants about the high cost of that model in Aus and the strength of the Aussie dollar. Europeans haven't got a clue on Hakkos.After a week a new thread appears: "Can I change this 110V FX-888 to 220V?"

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 01:18:26 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on March 23, 2013, 12:57:24 am*shudder*Harbor Freight sells the cheapest Wun Hung Lo crap imaginable. They don't even have a decent screwdriver. Forget about soldering stuff.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 01:24:00 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on March 22, 2013, 08:56:22 pmThat picture gives me a lot more respect for the technical support guys from India I always get on the phone.

author: MikeK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 01:35:53 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on March 23, 2013, 01:18:26 amMuch of it, yes. But they do sell some things that are just fine. Their impact sockets are good. They have a chest of drawers that beats out all but the most expensive Craftsman stuff. And their drill presses are often the same ones, with a different name, sold elsewhere for much more money.But, yes, you should go in with a skeptical eye.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 02:31:31 am
content: Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 22, 2013, 07:15:27 pmI once had a $10 meter set to amps and forgetting about it, I tried to measure a PC power supply. The probe wire melted almost instantly and gave me a nasty burn where it was touching my arm. Just because it's CAT I and low voltage doesn't make it completely safe. Things can be even worse if someone does the same thing but with a car battery and mistakenly thinks it's a "safe low voltage" circuit.

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 02:45:32 am
content: I remember the first (only) time that I popped a multimeter fuse. I was 6 at the time, and plugged the meter into the mains when it was set to amps!I didn't even notice that it was broken until I tried to measure current with the same meter a couple years ago. I'm glad it was a fluke XD. (im not rich for owning a multimeter at six. My mom was an engineer for fluke)

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 02:51:30 am
content: Quote from: smashedProton on March 23, 2013, 02:45:32 amI did the same thing at a similar age (probably eight). Made a big spark and bang, tripped the breaker, and scared the shit out of me. Of course, this was most definitelynota Fluke.

author: krish2487
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 03:43:29 am
content: i hate the posts that say"Is thisQuote!@#$%^&*( any good"Seriously..There is a TON of good info already available on the forums if they took the time out to read...

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 05:15:20 am
content: Quote from: ivan747 on March 23, 2013, 12:57:24 amLmfao its scary how true that soldering iron discussion description is. I get some serious feeling of Deja Vu reading those.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 05:32:12 am
content: Quite often,someone makes a passing comment upon a limitation of digital 'scopes,& the digital enthusiasts react as if you insultedtheir mother.The "greybeard" then points out that the limitation is a real one,& quotes situations where it could cause problems--real life onesfaced byrealTechs fixing real equipment in everyday situations.The "digi fans" in turn, indignantly point out how superior a digital 'scope is in doing something quite different!At this point,the "greybeard" goes off & does something else,coming back later to find the "digi fans" have turned on each other,& arearguing over more & more esoteric points of digital scope operation----akin to arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.As one of the greybeard cuprits,I can easily be silenced by someone posting a screenshot of an inexpensive DSO displaying afull field ( not just the field syncs) of analog video,where the display is not excessively marred by aliasing.DPO 'scopes can do it nearly as well as an analog scope,but they are not inexpensive.OK,analog TV is pretty much gone,but I'm sure most people have an old DVD player laying around.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 05:44:27 am
content: This thread. There's aren't any obnoxious topics, just obnoxious people. If you leave it alone, it will pass you bye.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 06:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on March 23, 2013, 05:32:12 amCan you edit the star wars empire strikes poster to be the eevblog greybeard strikes back? I am too lazy.Tie fighter = rigol, rebel ship = 300lb tektronix

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 23, 2013, 09:04:03 pm
content: Quote from: ftransform on March 23, 2013, 06:08:46 pmThe only reason I haven't got a 300lb Tektronix is because it weights 300lb.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 02:29:21 am
content: The only reason I don't have a Rigol so I can do my own comparisons is because I'm too poor!And what's this Politically Correct "Greybeard " stuff,anyway--we're Old Farts!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 05:54:57 am
content: Just how old do you have to be to be an old fart anyway? The real OM are at least nearly double my age.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 10:20:31 am
content: I was once told by an "old" electrician that old age and deceit will always overcome youth and enthusiasm, he was about the same age then as I am now.....funny how that works.I must be one the lucky ones that owns both an analog and digital oscilloscope, which one's better? the more expensive one of course.

author: opablo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 12:59:52 pm
content: Any electronics person has multiple DMMs... Why can't one of mines be an electronics DMM with 100V 3A ratings that instead of spending in input protection just simply uses that money for better features ? It could also have Auto/Manual AC/DC switchingAnd simply use any of my other multipurpose DMMs whenever I need to probe high energy stuff / mains (1000 times less frequent than my usual 0.8-12V 0-1A electronic uses)Quote from: Lightages on March 22, 2013, 08:19:24 pm

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 02:58:26 pm
content: Quote from: opablo on March 24, 2013, 12:59:52 pmOf course you can have a cheap meter. The point is to provide information on the qualities of the meter and then you decide what you want. The safety issue is raised because so many meters have outright lies marked on them.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 24, 2013, 06:06:31 pm
content: you guys are getting off topic I am going to have to lock the thread if this keeps going on.More nonsense please.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2013, 06:49:30 am
content: Ripping on the Chinese.Okay, we get it, they make some crappy electronics... but they also make some good electronics, and considering how many products these days are rebranded or built with Chinese parts or assembled by Chinese workers, it's rather silly to keep ripping on them with the tired "Wun Hung Lo" expression.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2013, 07:52:19 am
content: Quote from: justanothercanuck on March 25, 2013, 06:49:30 amThe thing is that the majority of good electronics from China has been designed and specified by non-Chinese engineers, and the Chinese part is merely to provide lowly paid worker drones.Usually crap comes out when the design and specification bit is also being done by the Chinese.It's like Japanese stuff from the 50's. It probably won't be very long until Chinese designed products are built with the same high quality as the Japanese do, but the fact is they are still not there yet.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2013, 08:10:04 am
content: +1This happened in every generations, like pre WWII, like my grand dad did bash badly for everything made in America, he preferred stuffs made in European countries. While my dad's generation, they hated everything made in Japan in early 50s to 70s, while in 80s to 90s was the era when everything made in Taiwan or Hong Kong was labeled as crap... and so on.In 90s, the Japanese was considered as the global economic threat, just watch the Hollywood movies in that era, like Japanese Global Evil Enterprises or worst their Yakuza or Ninja will take over the world and etc.Heck.. anyone remember the words "Nakatomi Plaza" that was used in one of the Hollywood block busters in 90s ? See how powerful these kind of hatred did at each generation.So this Chinese bashing + brain washing by media, and probably mildly by their own government as well maybe for nationalism/protectionism is nothing new at all, its becoming very boring real fast.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2013, 11:24:37 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 25, 2013, 08:10:04 am+1Anectoctally, just watch the dialog between Doc and Marty regarding japanese ICs in Back to the Future...Quote from: Backtothefuture

author: ErikTheNorwegian
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 25, 2013, 04:21:59 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on March 25, 2013, 07:52:19 amNo no.. Wun Hung Lo Dumpling Co is a legit american company- here a photo of them at the Caulfield Farmers' Market!nothing to do with the Chinese at all...Se 4 yourself..http://www.flickr.com/photos/avlxyz/4187613882/#

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2013, 12:03:27 pm
content: It's not bashing or prejudice, a lot of the stuff is pure crap.It could be because they get their specs from the wong fook hing bookstore.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 26, 2013, 11:14:34 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on March 25, 2013, 08:10:04 amThe reason for what you call "Chinese bashing" is because the majority of stuff made there is worthless crap, plain and simple. Of course you can ignore it if you prefer to keep your eyes shut from reality and claim it's just media "brain washing", but that does not change this very simple fact. And quite frankly, the only one to blame for this "Chinese bashing" are the Chinese factories who flood the world with more and more of their crap stuff every day, aside from treating their lowly paid workers poorly while keeping them in prison-style worker camps. Of course at some point in the future all this will change and China will have advanced enough to overcome the lack of understanding of quality and service, as well as the dreadful work conditions. But at the moment they still have a long way to go.You seem to mix up what you consider to be "hate" with the people's reaction to a country's products when it goes through the normal cycle more or less any under-developed country goes through on its way to first world status. A standard part of this cycle is to produce crap.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 27, 2013, 05:39:01 am
content: +1An UNLIKE ALL the 3rd world countries that have gone before .. China has a strict Communist regime and 1.2 Billion more poorpeople to fill the jobs of anyone who dares to make a better product and hence increase the price .. which doesn't make themas competitive .. etc etc It will be a bloody long time before they fall into line, like Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc

author: r90s
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2013, 11:14:09 am
content: I hate this topic,because it covers so much that I would like to comment on, and the topic has not even started rolling yet.....My Keyboard Would Melt!

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 01:08:28 am
content: I have another one to add. The AA crowd. I don't mean alcoholics anonymous.I mean the anti-arduino people.Thinking about using the arduino to make your imagination come to life? Think again. If you don't suffer like me reinventing the wheel with low level programming languages then your idea is shit. Do you have more interest in systems engineering then coding? Oh oh, we will burn your house down. If you do use an arudino don't even dream about using it with a pre-made shield. I will only respect you if you write your program on a intel 4004 using binary code.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 01:17:10 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on April 18, 2013, 01:08:28 amMy only beef with arduino, raspberry pi, et al. is that people buy them and think they're cool for using a micro. Then they start going on about C programming. If they're going to spend the time breadboarding a shield, then why can't they take a few minutes and choose a processor and learn a little assembly.

author: ftransform
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 01:31:38 am
content: Quote from: justanothercanuck on April 18, 2013, 01:17:10 ambecause assembly language is boring as shit and laying out pcbs (especially boards that don't involve a MCU) is fun.No one wants to look at and route that god damn centipede on every PCB they make.

author: justanothercanuck
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 01:35:08 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on April 18, 2013, 01:31:38 amSomebody's gotta do it. The world can't run off pre-built controller boards.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 03:55:19 am
content: What the hell is Agarwal doing on a power pole?

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 06:04:34 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on April 18, 2013, 01:08:28 amI have no respect for idiots. And the Arduino attracts idiots. It uses idiot-speak (sketch, shield ...), which caters to the idiots. It is that simple. And it breads people who think they are now an embedded systems engineer because they shelled out for an Arduino, copy-and-pasted a "sketch", have no clue what they do, then pester others on the internet to fix "their" code. People who refuse to learn and understand.The Arduino is an idiot attractor. If there would be a law for idiots having to wear an idiot badge there would be a huge outcry. But thanks to the Arduino a portion of idiots voluntarily mark themselves as idiots, by waving their Arduinos around.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 18, 2013, 09:07:59 am
content: 0110100001100101011010000110010101101000011001010110100001100101011010000110010100001101000010100011101000101101001010010000110100001010

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 01:44:00 am
content: 360/39.2=9.18 36 72 144http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/arduino/index.php?n=Notes.AssemblyMods"We use the Arduino for teaching assembly language programming and basic machine organization / microcontrollers here at NMSU"I don't know how many of these things they sell but there must be millions of "idiots" running around wasting their time learning microprocessors.Did anyone here jump right into assembly or did they use basic or another high level language as an introduction?

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:35:24 am
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on April 19, 2013, 01:44:00 am*sticks hand up*I don't recommend it, though.

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:57:39 am
content: laynetworks.com/assembly tutorials.htmlI think I see the attraction.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:59:07 am
content: Quote from: c4757p on April 19, 2013, 02:35:24 amBasically the same here. Apple ][ Basic, to assembly on the Apple ][e, to CoCo2, to CoCo2 assembly, to IBM PC compatible anything, winding up with assembly on the PICs back in the late 80's.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 03:04:55 am
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on April 19, 2013, 02:57:39 amBroken links? Yeah, I like those too.Quote from: Skimask on April 19, 2013, 02:59:07 amI started messing around with computers when I was eight or so - we could barely afford a book on them, let alone an actual computer, but a family member had an old PC-XT in the attic. I thought the idea of actually creating a program sounded cool. No compiler, though. Imagine my delight when I saw that the built-in command "DEBUG" could be used, in a pinch, to crank out assembly!Trust me, I didn't get too far with that for a few years, but when I was a bit older I did return to assembly.

author: 4to20Milliamps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 03:23:36 am
content: I certainly don't think anyone that has an interest in electronics and is wanting to use the arduino is an"idiot" by any means, I think it's great we have options for learning and people willing to take time to make libraries for them.I spent months studying turbo pascal after learning basic, then turbo c++< all considered antique software now, and I'm certainly no expert programmer but I have a basic understanding of it.I'm sure most people that stick with programming the arduinos will naturally be drawn to assembly.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 01:13:32 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on April 19, 2013, 03:23:36 amMost people that stick with programming the Arduinos will naturally end up posting to forums like these asking for somebody else to design their hardware and write their homework assignments for them because it's due tomorrow.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 01:24:11 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on April 19, 2013, 01:13:32 pmWow. I see the arduino as an extension to my breadboard. The fact that I might come on here and ask for help as a novice and instead receive ridicule sounds elitist.I'll bet you anything you'd whine if you got the same treatment from a car motor forum cos you decide to tinker with your car and you bought the cheapy timing light/tune up kit from Auto-one.Don't be a dick. Try to set an example so others can learn and aspire to your apparent high standard.

author: mikes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 02:19:08 pm
content: Quote from: 4to20Milliamps on April 19, 2013, 01:44:00 amAssembly? There was no room for an assembler on a base KIM-1. Machine language, with relative addresses computed by hand.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 03:24:37 pm
content: A wise man once said:Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on April 19, 2013, 01:24:11 pmThere's a lot I can't stand about Arduino, but I don't have to be mean to people who don't agree.

author: snipersquad100
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 04:53:53 pm
content: Good thing about this forum is that it has a "SUBJECT BAR" to let you know what the person is writing about, It's up to you if you wana read it. The thing that pisses me off is when the people with more knowledge in electronics than others boast and take the piss rather than help people out. New comers to this forum are not going to read every post that everyone has posted in the past. If you don't like what people are posting don't come on the site.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 08:19:08 pm
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on April 19, 2013, 01:24:11 pmYou're right. I've got a couple of Arduino boards that I use for quicky setups...mainly inducing digital data into other boards, but I still use them.Let me re-phrase my earlier statement...Most people will naturally end up posting to forums like these asking for somebody else to design their hardware and write their homework assignments for them because it's due tomorrow.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 09:41:52 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on April 19, 2013, 03:24:37 pmI very sorry, I was a little heavy handed there.

author: Ed.Kloonk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 09:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: Skimask on April 19, 2013, 08:19:08 pmElders helping people with their homework is part of life. You've never completed your kids' geography assignment?Perhaps it's not the students fault. It's probably unmotivating to them because they realize, as you do, there are better ways to skin the cat but probably really seek help and inspiration for those in the trenches instead of just those stuck in the academic environment.If the teacher couldn't manage to help them solve their homework without asking for help...

author: lemmegraphdat
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 10:51:19 pm
content: Quote from: lemmegraphdat on April 19, 2013, 02:57:39 amTypo. No l after htm.

author: peps1
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2013, 11:56:09 pm
content: This whole thread is a little obnoxious!Iv yet to see a forum that doesn't have recurring questions. People don't come to forums purely as a repository of academic information, they want to open a dialogue, and this by its very nature will breed a level of repetition as people ask the same questions, but approach and resolve them in different ways thanks to input for other members.But, as a new member it has been useful in highlighting who the elitist pricks are!

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 12:05:56 am
content: Quote from: peps1 on April 19, 2013, 11:56:09 pmNot alwayselitistpricks - sometimes crotchety pricks and impatient pricks too. Can't say I haven't had my "crotchety prick" moments beforeI totally understand you, and agree that it's perfectly natural for questions to get asked again - hell, I think I said that earlier in this thread - but I'd be lying if I said that "What's the best multimeter" number 5842 doesn't get just alittlebit irritating once in a while. Yeah, I can skip over it, but I get stuck between "this is annoying and I should just skip it" and "this person clearly needs help and I can help him". And it getsreallyirritating when you're trying to figure out the latest "My microcontroller won't work, what's wrong with it" (with literally no more information given than that) as if we're supposed to be mind readers. I do generally try to be patient and help them, but yeah, I'm groaning a bit to myself.

author: marshallh
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 01:59:45 am
content: Get off my lawnThat is all

author: ignator
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 02:06:46 am
content: Quote from: ftransform on March 22, 2013, 05:21:14 pmGreybeard:Old age and treachery, beat youth and skill EVERY-TIME! I learned this from a greybeard when I was a punk kid engineer.

author: Skimask
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 03:46:34 am
content: Quote from: Ed.Kloonk on April 19, 2013, 09:51:19 pmAs a matter of fact, no I haven't helped either of my kids with their homework...mainly because one is 4 and the other 3 months

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 04:18:47 am
content: Quote from: ignator on April 20, 2013, 02:06:46 amSorry, couldn't help it.

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2013, 08:42:45 am
content: Actually I don't mind recurring topics on forums such as this one simply because I can ignore those topics easily enough!Thank goodness that this is NOT a Yahoo email group! I was a member of one and I left that group when the same damn questions were coming into my inbox from newbies all the time! Mind you, Yahoo email groups makes a mess of archiving old postings due to the subtle flaw of defining threads by replies to the post rather than by subject line!