"Ye Olde" 'Pagers' really dead now! ?? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 11:25:00 am
content: We all had them. But like Cellular Phones, they need/needed a SERVICE behind them !Surprisingly, there are STILL many people/companies/departments globally that want/usethem. You might think that... "Retire them in history, like 300-baud Modems", but there areREASONS why they have been kept in existence. For Eg: In Hospitals, (staff/doctors), they havemuch greater signal reception, and are Passive devices not 'emitting' (normally) anything themselves.Japan has announced that by Sept 2019, their last 'Service' will be shut off. (Due to Massive costs!).I can see where the modern world is coming from, as I can for the 'lingers' on. Obviously, there needsto be a better replacement, especially in medical/emergency-services sectors.... Their argument is thatduring major outages & phone swamping/overload, that this system will still work....'I' personally have nightmares of being on 24-Hr call years ago, and hating the sound of my Pager' somuch that YEARS later, if I even hear the Microwave Beep I would melt in a heap !!!Interestingly, 'Fax' machines are on the same slope, but are STILL widely used today !!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 12:28:57 pm
content: As faxes just use low-bandwidth modems, they don't cost anything much to maintain, as opposed to devices using dedicated wireless networks... and although they are very simple, I guess their "point-to-point" nature and their slowness makes them a little less prone to spam and spoofing than e-mails. And unless the phone line or fax is borked, there is probably also less chance of a failed delivery.Dedicated services cost a lot, but that would certainly be interesting to deploy a wireless network different from the GSM/3G/4G/... all-purpose networks, with much less traffic, much higher QoS and much higher security... for emergency services.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 12:34:08 pm
content: Time to make an open source replacement based on a long range wireless technology such as Lora?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 12:38:45 pm
content: A simple pager is too reliable, it must be replaced with as much digital networking and computing technology as possible.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 12:41:23 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on July 17, 2019, 12:38:45 pmMaybe pagers don't require as many satellites either! What a shame really.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:00:14 pm
content: I did some basic study them many years ago, many are around 160MHz in the UK, no satellites. Other than a very deep basement it's impossible to find somewhere were they don't work.Often exactly the same message is transmitted multiple times ~30 seconds apart although the pager only displays it once.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:07:45 pm
content: So how is that going to benefit Amazon?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:18:00 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 17, 2019, 01:07:45 pmI don't know what you mean.In general, if a simple person to person communication device doesn't need 20GB of operating system, 5GB of apps, 8GB of RAM, a high speed internet connection, and a 16M colour screen, you must be doing something wrong.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:30:06 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 17, 2019, 12:28:57 pmIn general they do mot work on VOIP lines that are taking over the conventional phone lines. They require specific codecs that VOIP providers may not support. This renders faxes totally unusable in such cases.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 01:46:57 pm
content: You failed to mention my favorite thing about pagers: they work for months on a single alkaline AA cell. Try that with any replacement technology!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 02:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on July 17, 2019, 01:18:00 pmWas just referring to this other thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/amazon-and-spacex-plan-to-launch-thousands-of-satellites-sane-or-reckless/

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 02:20:01 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on July 17, 2019, 01:46:57 pmOne of the Pros: for the new fangled replacement will be, "Lasts up to 10 hours on a single charge.""Health Secretary Matt Hancock called them "outdated" and said he wanted to rid the NHS of "archaic technology like pagers and fax machines"".and wheels ?"NHS trusts will be allowed to keep some pagers for emergency situations, for example if the wi-fi or mobile networks went offline."https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47332415https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42902684

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 02:32:11 pm
content: So maybe Health Secretary Matt Hancock has taken advice from Japan's latest cyber-security minister!"The NHS has been told to stop using pagers for communications by 2021, in order to save money."Note that the "outdated" argument is just marketing talk for the masses. The real reason, as clearly stated, is to save money, not to give better service.

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 17, 2019, 02:48:19 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 17, 2019, 02:32:11 pmAnd it's only costing money because it has been privatized/outsourced to Crapita.

author: ve7xen
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 01:42:25 am
content: The regional/nationwide services will be discontinued, but I suspect they will continue operating local stations at hospitals and such, just like the countless analog FM commercial radio repeater systems operating everywhere. If the Dr. is in the building, where the biggest reception problems are, then they get paged. If they're home, they get a phone call / SMS. Or maybe they just send both.

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 18, 2019, 04:43:36 am
content: I will always miss pagers. I worked for the worlds largest paging infrastructure manufacturer for 5 years.Also had a pager watch back in 1992 - it wasn't even that big and the battery would go for nearly 2 months. The power draw of the VHF receiver and decoder was just over 1 milliwatt. The antenna was in the wrist strap. I still have a few kicking around, wonder if Dave would like one for a 2 minute teardown.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 12:03:29 pm
content: Quote from: ve7xen on July 18, 2019, 01:42:25 amYes... that's the thing. LOCAL low-powered 'transmitters' for use in Hospitals etc.Of course that doesn't help the likes of 'Emergency Services' (fire/rescue) broadly in the Field.

author: @rt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 01:23:50 pm
content: I haven’t looked into it myself, but quite sure I’ve heard that amateur radio enthusiasts have made free and legal use of them,and it’s likely that if you are unlicensed, any use of them will not be legal.EDIT,,, Yep. Only have to search "ham radio pager” to find plenty of people still using them with their own equipment.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 03:33:27 pm
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 20, 2019, 12:03:29 pmUntil they are made completely illegal. Which I wouldn't be hugely surprised about one of these days.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 20, 2019, 04:05:18 pm
content: How would a modern low power, long range wireless standard like Lora compare to the wireless standards pagers used back then?

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 12:16:19 am
content: They are still around in Oz.Over on the WAHAMs forum, there is some whinging about interference from the pagers on 148.5MHz, just above the Amateur "2m band".I remember back in the late 1980s, we had a 1kW paging transmitter in the "link hut" at my then job.I personally carried a pager pretty consistently from then till 1999.We got some funny misdirected pages at times.One I got said "Miranda arriving tonight's plane ---- wear your red Jocks!I often wonder if Miranda ended up stranded at the airport, with no "red Jocked" hero to pick her up

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 09:56:34 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 20, 2019, 04:05:18 pmI'd never heard of it, but it sounds interesting !! (LORA...LOngRAnge WiFi)Although it looks great for many applications, with a limit of about 10-Km+ in rural areas . . . .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:32:36 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 22, 2019, 09:56:34 amI've read quite a bit about LoRa, and it's still unclear to me what's involved in sending a simple 8-bit value, or even just an ON/OFF signal.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:02:55 pm
content: Quote from: StillTrying on July 22, 2019, 11:32:36 amThere's some controversy that it is patent encumbered, not sure on exact details.

author: Marco
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on July 20, 2019, 03:33:27 pmWho needs that spectrum that desperately? It's only useful for low bandwidth and high range/penetration. New technology doesn't really change what we can use it for.Government stupidity wise it could happen I guess, but I don't see big commercial interests driving them off.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 01:37:05 pm
content: Quote from: Marco on July 22, 2019, 01:08:49 pmI don't know, but pager systems have actually used a broad range of frequencies depending on the network and on the country. And the overall spectrum is pretty crowded, so there's pretty much always a "good" reason to make extra room.Quote from: Marco on July 22, 2019, 01:08:49 pmReally?First, yes, this can stem from a political decision. It may or may not be stupid, but as banning pagers altogether for all uses would probably be considered unconstitutional in many countries, banning, for most applications (maybe excepted a very few), the use of the usual frequency bands they were using would indirectly make pagers unusable, and could be justified with "technical" reasons that would bypass the "unconstitutional" factors. This is common political practice.Now for the big commercial interests? I guess there are many. This is a very big potential market waiting to be taken over by telecom companies, promising a supposed better QoS AND (directed to politics) the possibility of general surveillance, whereas basic pager systems are usually hard to track (or even impossible for one-way pagers) on a large scale.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 04:09:24 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on July 20, 2019, 04:05:18 pmNah. We probably could get a 1-2 years of battery life with an AA Lithium primary battery (or even alkaline) and LTE CAT-M1 for a pager like device. Depends on the number of messages. Maybe even more battery life. None of these android, LCD and other rubbish of course.Then it's just a UTP message and that's it.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 12:48:19 am
content: I'm glad there's still some of this stuff around because it's kinda fun to pick it up and decode it with my RTL stick. Not nearly as common as it used to be though, seems to be mostly doctors and other medical people.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 01:33:52 am
content: What I think would be interesting would be a smartwatch with an Eink display and some sort of low power, long range wireless capabilities. And make the firmware open source, of course.Then again, when even a super skinny model smaller than 99% of the adult population wants a nice big smartwatch with built in video conferencing capabilities, something that appears primitive in comparison might be a hard sell...