How hard is it to run a server at your house? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 01:10:21 am
content: I'm trying to buy and sell domain names and found you can get the value up by listing them with google. The web sites are going to be real simple, just a few pictures and some text saying its for sale. I'm trying to make money on volume so it doesn't make sense to pay a monthly fee on every site as I have a lot. The server is going to be at a friends house some distance away who is trust worthy and knows more then me about computers. But I don't even know where to begin. Do you need a special server machine or will a regular PC work? I'm willing to invest some money into this to do it right.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 01:43:00 am
content: IMO, Compared to a PC, servers are all around bandwidth and capacity. We use dual socket systems (20 cores each), with 512GB RAM in our server farm at work, with 80Gb/s bandwidth to the storage and network. They also use a lot of power - about 500W each, 24 hrs a day.However, for what you are proposing, all you really need is something that can serve static pages quickly enough for your upstream link (maybe 100Mb/s if you are on Fibre), which is not very taxing.Given that you are not hosting active content you don't need a 'real server', even a Raspberry Pi running Apache would be fine. They will also use far less power than a PC.If you do this, then I would suggest you get two - one for testing updates, and the other actively serving pages to the outside world - if one breaks you can then use the testing unit while you fix it.Maybe also get a small UPS for your router and server(s) as well. With a Raspberry Pi even a desktop model will work fine.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 01:52:20 am
content: A few dramatic suggestions there from hamster, but just to be clear if you want a server that'll serve dozens of hits per minute with 99% uptime, then a completely plain Raspberry Pi running Apache will work fine. Run apache server, set up your domains to point at your IP, open port 80 on the router. This is how my websiters20.mine.nuis running (free domain!).If you want higher uptime, more bandwidth, and higher reliability forzeromoney, that AFAICT any number of hosting services have free products. For example, I host my static content on Firebase for $0.

author: kaevee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 02:55:32 am
content: Consider hosting your servers on Amazon Web Services (AWS). Amazon offers lots of services free for first 12 months.https://aws.amazon.com/free/You can create two tiny servers good enough to serve static pages. Further, they even offer a free tier database service if you wish to run a tiny online store.Probably AWS free tier is lot better than running your own server which entails to keeping it online 24x7, providing stable power, Internet connection and much more.Edit: Truncated the URLVenkat

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 03:11:27 am
content: What you are describing is not hard at all.But to do it PROPERLY and SECURELY without compromising the rest of your network is something best left to someone who has a decent amount of server/networking knowledge.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 03:17:13 am
content: Second AWS, but I'd use S3 web hosting instead of running servers.Stupid easy and insanely cheap (for low utilization site such as you describe).Also probably fits in the free tier for the first 12 months. After that, I'd expect literally pennies per month.Docs:http://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/dev/WebsiteHosting.html

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 05:28:52 am
content: Let me replay what I think you want to do to make sure I understand it right:You want to buy domain names, all of them will just have a for sale sign for that domain name. Your plan is to resell the name and make a profit.So, here is an overview (hope it will help you how where to start):Part 1, the nameFirst is thedomain name registry. If the name you want is an available name, you buy the names from a domain registrar. Most domain registrar also offers name services and hosting services.Once you got the name, you can now specify where (what IP) that name goes to. So, you use your domain registrar'sDNS serviceto enter an IP that you own/control into theirname server. You can haveALL your domains pointing to the same IP (same server).You can run your own DNS server too, but that is beyond the scope of this overview.For example:Since I own domainricklaw.us, I can have many servers with that single domain name. A server I choose to name "secret" can go in my domain assecret.ricklaw.us. I can have another serverelectronics.ricklaw.us. Each server needs an entry in my DNS – which is actually me creating an entry inmy registrar's DNS serverfor the name(s) I own. The namessecret.ricklaw.usjust points to a server by IP. It doesn't mean it is a particular type of server. It could be a mail server, an FTP server, whatever.Note of course common nomenclature. For example,wwwfor world wide web server) andmxfor mail exchange server, so on.So, with your name in the "global phone book" (ie: DNS servers), a user from the outside can get to your server using that "phone book". He (the application) asks the DNS of the world and eventually the request gets to your registrar's DNS server which will return the IP you entered for that server.Part 2, the serverNow the user have an IP, it knows how to get to your machine, it could be a web server or whatever type of server. In your case, you have a simple web page server.There are plenty of web server hosting services out there. Your domain registrar probably have web server hosting service also. You need only one server. All the domains you own can point to that one server. (ie: all the entries in the DNS have the same)You can make up that simple html "for sale" page, or use whatever tool your registrar's server has and make something fancy. Google hosts webpage also, but in the way they configure it (or used to configure it), you will probably need to replicate the page(s) into each domain name google hosts. I have not used Google web host for a while, so I am not sure how they are like now.Different companies have different mix of services, here are two you need to look into. They may call it something else but typically:Server hosting- host your hardware in their shop, or rent you a machine/virtual-machine.Web hosting- you don't have your own machine, but you have your own website on a machine that may house web servers for other clients.I personally usednsexit.comas my registrar/host. They also have server and web hosting. Since your flag is Canada, I thinkgodaddy.comis a Canadian firm (not sure, just think so). They will host your domain name and have server hosting as well - or at least they used to. As I said earlier, there are many registrar/hosting firms out there. Search the web for one that will give you the best deal.Part 3, the machine at homeYou can use an old XP machine and it can serve simple pages. But you will have reliability problem. For consistent service, you will also need a fixed IP. You can get by with "dynamic IP". Typical consumer internet connection have "dynamic IP" which means it may change by itself at intervals selected by your ISP.Some DNS services are dynamic. The one I usednsexit.comhas dynamic DNS capability. I run something that keep detecting my IP and connect to them to update when it changes - which means there is an exposure. How frequent do I run my IP update, what if the customer happen to look between ISP's IP change and my IP update application actually updating.Then there is power outage, etc. You said you want to do it right, soI suggest best is having a professional hosting service host it.This is a quick overview, I hope it helps.Rick

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 05:32:37 am
content: Aren't there enough domain name squatter leeches out there already? Unless I misunderstand what you're trying to do.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:06:26 am
content: I like th raspberry pi idea because its cheap, and you can just copy SD card and make clones in minutes when you screw something up. This will be at a friends house who will either have fois of comcastic. If we start making money at this Ill get faster internet. This is all about a thin bottom line. A rpi and the bare minimum is all we need. This idea is 90% me spending hours on the internet doing google SEO stuff and him spending minutes with the hard ware and dozens of minutes with the soft ware. Once set up ill only call him to send him a check or do something technical. An RPI has cheap shipping too!

author: Codebird
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:10:49 am
content: Home internet connections are not entirely reliable, and usually horribly assymetric. You're better off renting a VM from the cheapest host you can find - you can get them starting at about £10 a month, very low cost.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:28:04 am
content: It's interesting that you're celebrating how "cheap" your RPi solution is, when there are a whole host offreeoptions that have been outlined above.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 06:59:02 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on May 17, 2017, 06:28:04 amI want to learn the hardware end. Its been a goal of mine since I was a kid. Its novel to me to think that the internet is something you can touch and unplug. Half of what I do is for the learning experience.

author: kaevee
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 07:08:02 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 17, 2017, 06:59:02 amIt is always great to learn hands on. People accessing your site(s) may or may not appreciate your zeal to run servers on our own. You are the best judge.Venkat

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:10:57 am
content: It's not hard, but the problem is that most ISPs don't allow public facing web servers or any servers that offer services. That pisses me off, it's an old arcaic rule that should not exist anymore. Also most don't provide static IP blocks. yeah dynudns and no-ip etc but if you want to run a "real" server you probably want to run your own DNS too not to mention have firewall rules on other servers that may require to add that server's IP. So a static IP is important for anything serious.That said, I run a few servers at home for my personal stuff and do have a public facing game server. My public facing web stuff is on a dedicated server at OVH though. The up side of a local "on prem" server is the vast control you have. Vlans, various network configs etc. Some stuff like that is just hard and/or risky to do remotely. That and it's more secure as you can make certain things only accessible from the inside.I need to cleanup the wiring one day.My DC cabling is kinda bad too, I plan to redo it at some point. My current power system is a 12v inverter-charger but I'd like to upgrade to a 48v dual conversion setup, possibly with solar.

author: dimkasta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:28:47 am
content: Just get a baby plan from hostgator and put them there. You will sleep better at night.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:37:43 am
content: I agree with the others: Running your own server will end in dissaster. Hackers, slow internet, crashes will keep you awake at night. If your core business is selling web pages then rent a server at a reliable firm. I'd stay away from hosting providers which are cheap or free if your business depends on it. You will want assurances for availability (SLA).

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:04:22 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 17, 2017, 08:10:57 amI didn't know it existed ever! In Australia, your home Internet connection is basically yours to do as you please. You can run all the services you like. Most decent ISPs will also give you a static IP by default at little to no extra cost (for example, my ISP, dynamic IP isn't even an option as far as I know).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 10:11:18 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 17, 2017, 01:10:21 amI think this is one of those "if you have to ask, you shouldn't do it" kind of questions. As others have said, it's not hard to do, but it's hard to do right. And generally speaking, it's not worth the effort to do it yourself. A hosting provider will do it better for less. (In particular, keeping a server protected from intrusion is not trivial; one mistake and the next thing you know, it's being used to host pirated movies and kiddie porn without your knowledge, or as part of a botnet performing DDOS attacks.)

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 11:27:24 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 17, 2017, 08:10:57 amI count 60 hard drive slots.... I only have 2, in a Synology DS214. And it's not called HAL9000.It may be very well against the Terms of Service of your internet contract to run any commercial activities on the home line.Enforcement of this is generally when you enter the top 1% of data hoarders.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:10:16 pm
content: Ordinary PCs are fine, as the bandwidth allowed for typical residential internet services are pretty limited. You need a business-grade internet service. One thing to look for is the upload speed. For instance, my business-grade cable modem gives 100 mbits/second download, but only 4 mbits/second upload. This is barely tolerable, and I'm waiting for the cable company to upgrade.You want to run a Linux server with Apache, or have a REALLY good IT person set it up to be secure. There are guys constantly trying to compromise your server. I used to get over 1000 attacks a day until I put in denyhosts, which cuts off all access from IP addresses that are trying to break in. Haven't had any successful breakin in over a decade.Jon

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 08:37:05 pm
content: Some ISP's its against the terms of service unless you pay extra for their business class. Other than that its not hard.This is my Raspberry Pi rack hosting my own stuff at home

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:01:19 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on May 17, 2017, 08:37:43 amWell, I've been doing it for at l;east 15 years. Yes, in the beginning, I got hacked a couple times. But, now, it has been well over a decade since the last successful hack. The guys who run the spambots probe for vulnerable sites, they have apparently put me on their "don't bother" list, they figured out I have a more than 2 week horizon for re-enabling blocked IP addresses, and they figure they will never get in.Running my own server is all due to inertia. When I started, there was no extra fee for static IP and permission to run servers, and the web hosting outfits were few and expensive. Now, it is pretty insane to do this. Crashes? Other than power failures, I think I have had one actual crash in a decade. The cable modem and Charter's cable plant has more downtime that that.Jon

author: dimkasta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:45:37 pm
content: Quote from: jmelson on May 17, 2017, 09:01:19 pmI get probes from 4-5 different IPs daily on each of my sites. Most from eastern Europe or AsiaBlocking is too convenient for them. They then can skip your server and move to other ones fastI find it funnier to throttle them and let them probe and test passwords for username admin, test and the domainThey are wasting time and the internet is a bit safer while they are spinning their wheelsBlock comes eventually, but it is pretty much meaningless. Others appear fast.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 17, 2017, 09:49:28 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on May 17, 2017, 11:27:24 amHaha yeah lot of slots, about 19TB between the 3 raid arrays in the 24 bay chassis. The other slots in other machines arn't used for anything. The two SAN enclosures at the bottom I also don't use, when I originally got them I thought I could put my own drives in them but can't. At about 200w per shelf it's not worth running with the small drives that are in there.Hal9000 is the home automation server, figured it was a fitting name.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2017, 09:49:59 pm
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 17, 2017, 08:10:57 amHow much did that set up cost and whats your monthly internet bill/plan?

author: tablatronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 27, 2017, 05:35:58 pm
content: I would find a host that allows you to park domains with a custom page. Or just pay a $5/m shared hosting and direct all dns records to it..If you do not pay for a business isp and or static ip, your isp could shut you down or block you, and the port scanners and bots will relentlessly attack you.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2017, 04:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: tablatronix on May 27, 2017, 05:35:58 pmDomain sales as I see it are a volume business. That means each one needs to be as cheap as possible. I'm also banking on the fact that one in a thousand might be worth several hundred thousand. I missed registering a site that sold for $1,000,000USD by about an hour. Domains are like land, once its all bought up it will go up in value. There was a useless homestead in califonia that was sold for almost nothing, now called silicon valley. It can get expensive when you have 100+ domains that you are just sitting on, then they try to sell you all this other stuff like privacy, when in actuality you should never give your real details out to whois. Ever since I missed my million dollar opportunity I have been hooked on buying domains.

author: tablatronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2017, 04:10:14 pm
content: Thousands of domains, sounds like alot of overhead to keep them registered and private whois.You can get away with it, I used to run my own email,ftp,httpd server on comcast for years until they eventually sent me a letter. Worked pretty well. But this was years ago, ISPs are pretty much a bunch of aholes nowadays.Domain squatting sounds so 90s, but With all these new tlds there seems to be a renaissance.

author: yada
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 28, 2017, 04:29:26 pm
content: Quote from: tablatronix on May 28, 2017, 04:10:14 pmif you are a brick and motor business you want that yourbusinessname.com. Look how many sites are xyzUSA.com or XYZ.biz. .biz? That's so unprofessional.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2017, 01:54:20 am
content: Quote from: yada on May 26, 2017, 09:49:59 pmI'd hate to even know.Most of it started off as one box, then two, then a rack, then more boxes, then more wires etc... probably like 10-15k of stuff easily in there. The file server alone (the one with 24 drive bays) was about 3-4k to build then add the drives. (most were added over time as required,I still have some empty slots)Since my ISP does not allow web servers, the connection is not really relevant with this setup as it's not really serving anything to the outside other than a game server (which is allowed), but I pay around $160/mo or so for my internet. It's 50/30 which is super good for here. They rolled out fibre here a few years back and I was lucky enough to be able to get it. Only overhead cable plant areas got it. I would love if my ISP actually did allow web servers as I'd host all of it here too. Would just need to invest in more batteries but that's not really a big deal as it's a one time cost vs the cost of leasing an online web server.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 29, 2017, 10:10:42 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on May 29, 2017, 01:54:20 amFrom experience, batteries are also a recurring cost. You either replace them every 3-5 years on a schedule, or replace them after you realize your UPS was not "U" after all and you were just paying the power inefficiency for no (or little) protection.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 04:46:53 pm
content: Domain squatting is a garbage thing to do. You're planning on deliberately buying up thousands of domains that you never intend to actually use in the hope that maybe one of them will hit the jackpot and be the one that someone with deep pockets really wants. In the meantime you inconvenience thousands of other people who just want a fucking domain name that they SHOULD be able to get with $12 and a few clicks, but now they have to negotiate with your greedy ass and pay several times as much and take tens or hundreds of times as long just because you want an easy payday.At least other forms of speculation, like with physical resources, can provide benefits in the form of price elasticity and supply-demand buffering, but domain squatting provides worse than zero net value to the world. Fuck anyone who does it.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 02:18:33 am
content: Well, I'm probably nuts, but I have been running a server in my house for about 14 years. I have an elecronics manufacturing business, and sellstuff online throughout the world. It is a one man shop, so I have to do everything. I run a Linux system as the firewall, web server, email server,FTP server, primary domain name server, etc. I use an open source web store package that unfortunately has pretty much stopped development. I used to use both PayPal and Authorize.net as my payment processors, but Authorize.net changed their encryption scheme, and the store doesn't support that, so now I'm just with PayPal.You really need static IP for a server. That requires a business account with most ISP's.The hardest thing to set up was the DNS, there just wasn't a whole lot of docs on how to create the files.Our electricity is insanely reliable, I don't have a UPS and the system has been running 216 days, even with hackers constantly trying to break in.I do use a few special things to help:1. There is only one net-accessible account on the machine, with a crazy 14-character password.2. I run denyhosts with very tight limits. If a specific IP address has 3 login failures over 2 weeks, they are put in the hosts.deny list for 6 months, essentially making my machine disappear to them. The botnets keep track of the "horizon" of this blocking. Exactly 2 weeks to the hour after I put this in, my attacks dropped from 1000+/day to 3/day! So, the botnets are coordinating their attacks. Scary!3. I set up a cron script to check daily for any altered files on the system. Just in case somebody DOES get in, I will at least get warned.Jon

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2020, 09:50:20 pm
content: Yeah static is a must to do it right. That is the hardest part of hosting at home since most ISPs won't provide that. For me I have a couple things hosted at home and had to rig together a script to update my online DNS server so it's a bit mickey mouse and I would not run anything important that way but it's just a game server. The web stuff is at OVH. If I could get static, and also permission, I would host it all at home. It's a bit reckless to not have a UPS though. Your power is reliable... until it's not. Trees can fall on lines, and maintenance sometimes requires power to go out. I would at very least put in an hour worth of battery backup.As for batteries being an "ongoing cost" that is false if you take good care of them. Though I admit I had 2 die on me from shorted cell but I consider that an abnormal fault. I'm also using cheap Canadian Tire batteries that are actually rated for starting and marine and not true deep cycle (mistake I made originally and then wanted to try to stick to same battery for any new ones), I would hope more expensive solar grade ones would tough longer without a premature failure. Currently my oldest battery is from 2013, it was to replace the first one that died prematurely. The other one I never replaced so was running on 3 for a while then brought my shed's solar battery inside and hooked it up. My UPS is not the best either as it has zero programmable features. I find it starts to charge at a higher rate than I'm comfortable with after a power outage. I would prefer it to just float and then have a monthly equalize.Downside of these consumer batteries is they change the models all the time so like none of them really match which is not good. They're all in parallel though as it's as 12v system.Eventually I think I will upgrade to golf cart batteries and then throw all 4 of these in the shed for the solar once I figure out how to keep the panels snow free year round.yeah batteries and even servers need to be replaced at some point but that's cheaper than paying per month, or paying MORE every time you want an upgrade. Most data centres for example will add $20+/mo to your bill if you want more ram or disk space.