What qualifies as a 'teardown'? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 04:29:56 pm
content: I see more and more threads here were the PO opens the case of some equipment, posts internal pictures of the boards, etc, and calls the whole thing a 'teardown'.When I hear the word teardown I am thinking along these lines:not just a set of internal pictures.Don't get it wrong, the threads are often very interesting, the posters have good intentions (this is why I don't link here for a few examples) and I am not proposing change of rules, etc, I am just questioning the usage of the word 'teardown', it seems to get diluted.What do you think, what qualifies as a 'teardown'? What word would you use for set of internal pictures?

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 04:35:26 pm
content: Well, IMO a true teardown means it pretty much comes all apart. However, loads of equipment has all the juicy bits on one side, with a few passives on the other. You don't need to tear it completely down to "see it all" for the most part.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 04:37:09 pm
content: As with all pornography,I know it when I see it, and the simple internal photos you describe are not that.

author: schwarz-brot
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 06:38:51 pm
content: I feel a bit guilty at that point on one hand. This is because I often don't want to undo the last screw on my devices for that final shot worth nothing while risking to ruin the thing. On the other hand most times it is enough to lift the cover and take a peak inside. With some more documentation on hand this gives lots of insight to the functionality that may also qualify this as a teardown. I don't know where the borders should be and I don't know what else to call it if it is no teardown. Being not a native speaker makes this not easier.After all I am absolutely with you: Taking off the lid, taking an overview shot and then not going into more detail explaining or requesting things or giving further information is no teardown. It's just a possibly interesting but nevertheless useless photo.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 07:04:00 pm
content: I find your teardowns quite good. More!

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 07:20:46 pm
content: A true teardown means it is not coming up again. Clearly the word teardown indicate some form of destruction.So in that sense, even the Dave teardowns are not all so. The multifunction copier: yes, take it apart, don't worry about calibrations, or remembering which bit went where. But the Sennheiser mic? That was more a gentle pry open.So if Dave can stretch the meaning, why not others. Everybody has his own level of how far he will go with his priced new toy/equipment. As long as its either entertaining or educational. Its better then those endless 'unboxing' video's anyway.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 07:44:57 pm
content: I can appreciate some of the unboxing / first switch on video's.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 09:36:27 pm
content: How about the not as catchy, but more accurate phrase "look inside"?

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 23, 2014, 11:37:12 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on January 23, 2014, 09:36:27 pmIndeed its more appropriate for the majority of the posts on equipment etc.However do not expect this phrase or any other to gain traction any time soon, unfortunately TEAR DOWN has has been overused so much that nothing else will get a look in.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:05:53 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 23, 2014, 09:36:27 pmYes, this sounds much better.

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:12:06 am
content: Quote from: schwarz-brot on January 23, 2014, 06:38:51 pmDon't worry. Your teardowns are good and interesting.

author: atw60444
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:16:33 am
content: Surely the mantra "Don't turn it on. Tear it apart" springs to mind? I'm quite happy to sneak a peek inside something new. See how it works. And have it put back into a working state. Saves a lot of time and effort doing it with my own gear. Alongside the more drastic, non recoverable tear down of defunct items.edit; is that quote right, or is it "take it apart"? It's late and I'm grumpy. On second thoughts this thread is more about semantics really. But that my 2 pence worth

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:19:34 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on January 23, 2014, 07:20:46 pmIt you show the internal circuitry, then to me, it's a teardown.Both Mike and I like to use "extreme teardown" for something (like the photocopier) that we have no intention of putting back together and get working again. or something that needs a destructive operation in order to see the interesting bits.QuoteOf course, what more did you expect me to do? What was left to show? What would have been the point in ruining my brand new $600 mic? Did you expect me to desolder the chips or something?

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:28:10 am
content: He man, it was not an accusation. More an example that if you can call it a teardown, others should also be allowed to.Of course I realized the very moment you mentioned it was your own new high end mic that it would be gentle. An indeed, breaking stuff is not always needed, nor does it require skill. Skill is being able to take it apart, and put it back together (working)Its just that, though not very important, strictly speaking the word "tear" is not really applicable. So if that is allowable, then why (as the original argument went) complain that someone is just taking pictures of the inside. Please remember that was the original comment reacted to.Just to show that my original comment was (if not interpreted, then at least meant to be) supportive, not dismissive, I'll quote myself:Quote from: cybermaus on January 23, 2014, 07:20:46 pm

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 12:44:08 am
content: Quote from: cybermaus on January 24, 2014, 12:28:10 amNo accusation implied. I'm just curious to know why you maybe thought my mic teardown might not have been quite a full teardown?I showed everything inside that there was to show. So IMO it's as full a teardown as you can get in this case without decaping chips and de-laminating PCBs.Unless you think (like the OP does) the object of a teardown is to take apart every screw and plastic part and lay them all out so you can photograph them?To me those minor details usually don't matter at all, unless there happens to be something peculiar with them. In which case I disagree with the OP.In fact I think such photo teardowns without showing all the intermediary subassemblies etc is actually a lesser teardown from an educational point of view. I want to see how the cables are managed and the boards are stacked etc.

author: nowlan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:06:10 am
content: I think ultimately people want to know whats inside, and what makes it tick.Starting with some simple photos of the internals, chip numbers to suggest how it does its thing.I like Dave's explanation of what parts do, where corners have been cut, and where no cost has been spared.I have opened stuff to be shocked what little is inside, considering cost etc.Unfortunately putting things back together is the hard part.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:13:10 am
content: As longI paid nothingto watch the so called peeking/open-case/half-ass teardown/teardown/extreme teardown/destructive teardown etc, I will be thankful and respect the content producer no matter what he/she called it.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:14:52 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on January 24, 2014, 01:13:10 amYou Sir, are the better man.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:19:09 am
content: For me it ain't a teardown unless there is some background info given. like block diagram , principle of operation or some other technical tidbitjust posting a couple of pictures from a circuit board is not a teardown.just because you happen to have a particular device and open in doesn't make it a teardown. There needs to be an educational aspect.posting pictures of the guts of a 34401 is not a teardown. Explaining the a/d converter topology and showing the various elements involved including how certain things are done on the PCb IS a teardown.Dave generally does a good job explaining the stuff he rips apart.

author: Fsck
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:21:53 am
content: When I think teardown, I think a view of everything (every side hopefully) inside and with decent detail so, if I wanted to, identify most (if not all) of the components. Explanation is nice, but not really necessary for me.But, like BravoV, I'm happy to gaze at all free pictures of the insides of stuff.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:25:18 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 24, 2014, 01:19:09 am

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:26:11 am
content: When I do power supply teardowns I always make sure to name the topology, major components, their purpose, whether they're good or bad in general or specific to this product. I tear it down as far as necessary, stopping only when the input of time/effort exceeds the value of the info I might get -- I'm not going to spend an hour desoldering a massive heatsink just to get a look at a couple of power mosfets.The purpose is to educate, not to destroy by reduction to component parts. That's a different sort of video, usually involving a Widlarizer, and is reserved for truly horrid Won Hung Lo crap.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 01:33:40 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 24, 2014, 01:19:09 amDepends entirely upon how lazy I'm feeling, or if I happen to see something worthy of adding some DaveCAD or block diagram etc.Usually I err on the side of doing as little work as possible!

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 03:09:58 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on January 24, 2014, 01:19:09 amIn the forum like this any activities are basically a community driven, especially Dave encourages hobbyists/enthusiasts to join, so sometimes the content producer may not have the enough skill and knowledge to put a education value nor explaining it throughly, like me myself as an example.Its purely the passion to share among fellas that have the same interest, thats called social activity. The name or calling doesn't matter much here.Don't tell me you're not interested "at all" if somehow I won a lottery and bought an elite grade measurement tool that you've been drolling all this time to see whats inside, and I happened to post a "noob" grade teardown of it without any explanations.

author: Dave
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 03:31:34 am
content: It ain't a teardown unless you desolder all the chips, dissolve their epoxy cases in nitric acid and inspect every bit under a microscope.Everythingelse is just apeek inside.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 04:57:23 am
content: I have some stuff for tear down thast will not be going back together scheduled for when I have the time and the inclination. Others are a look inside and a place back together along with it still working. There is a compressor in the first category that I want to see why it failed, though I suspect I already know why but want confirmation. That will definitely be terminal.

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 05:53:38 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 24, 2014, 01:33:40 am571 videos is pretty impressive, possibly more air time than Sir David Attenborough.

author: cybermaus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:27:10 am
content: Quote from: nowlan on January 24, 2014, 01:06:10 amThat reminds me of thisUSB charger.I do'nt think they bothered putting things back together.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:49:51 am
content: Quote from: Dave on January 24, 2014, 03:31:34 ampff. it aint a true teardown unless you delayer those said chips, extract the schematics, build a complete spice model and run it on a top notch simutor like eldo to verify the correctness of the model you built.

author: jancumps
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:51:51 am
content: ... Until you disassemble and reverse engineer said top notch simulator

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:52:14 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on January 24, 2014, 01:33:40 ampoint is that mostof the time you make some remarks about why they did a particular thing. it could be something like oh look they used a flat-flex here for such and such purpose. that in itself teaches something.the teardown you did on the sennheiser was pretty good. the only thing that i wondered abouit why they did not use a common cpu / display board. they coudl have easily use the same board for both transmitter and receiver , yet they opted to make a different layout although 99% of the parts are the same. kinda weird.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 07:53:08 am
content: Quote from: jancumps on January 24, 2014, 07:51:51 amforgetit . the open-sauce crap doesn't come close to eldo ...