Is Raspberry Pi 5, Intel N100 and Intel Core 3 similar CPU power? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 10:03:14 pm
content: For setting up aLinux file serverwith CLI command line interface, without desktop GUI and no need for GPU video performance.Is Raspberry Pi 5, Intel N100 and Intel Core 3 has roughtly similar CPU speed in area ofgeneral data processing and disk IO.Is Intel core 5 about four time faster than core 3? Yes, there are many members in core 3 or 5. I refer to those that is mainstream and medium priceDisk will be NVMe, mainstream PCIe generation 4 and 4 lanes. Samsung 990 PRO or similar. These are at fair cost and widely available (a bit over 100 USD for 1 TB).There is no computational intensive looping like ray tracing nor game-image generation.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 10:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 28, 2024, 10:03:14 pmNoQuote from: Wilson__ on December 28, 2024, 10:03:14 pmNonspecific question gets non specific answer.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/what-is-difference-between-i3-i5-i7/msg4210300/#msg4210300

author: tunk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 10:42:45 pm
content: You may also want to consider power consumption.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 10:45:13 pm
content: RPi will require some additional cost and creativity in mounting an nvme drive, which will also run in gen 2 mode by default, can run at gen 3 but that will depend on the quality and signal integrity of the flat flex cable and nvme mounting board.Sounds like you should stick to an x86 option in this case.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2024, 11:42:08 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 28, 2024, 10:03:14 pmIntel Processor N100 and Core i3-N300 are roughly similar as they have exactly the same microarchitecture, with the i3 simply having 8 cores instead of 4 cores, and a slightly higher clock speed. Both are roughly comparable to Skylake, but using less energy.The Arm A76 is the Raspberry Pi 5 offers far less performance than any of the above, perhaps comparable to something around Intel Nehalem µarch Core i5. (The Core i3 name was first used with the Sandy Bridge µarch)

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 12:24:46 am
content: Quote from: John B on December 28, 2024, 10:45:13 pmYes, I have done that. It gives me 40 hardware IO pins.PC platform, most with PCIe gen 3 or 4, 4 lanes, is faster, easier and cheaper for just linux server.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 12:27:44 am
content: Quote from: tunk on December 28, 2024, 10:42:45 pmYes, I look closely on TDP values and the 'issue chip' list that tend to go with higher TDP

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 01:09:05 am
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 12:27:44 amFor a typical domestic fileserver, idle power is far more important than TDP.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 01:31:19 am
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 29, 2024, 01:09:05 amWonder if/to what extend Linux server OS will put CPU in lower power mode at light loading?

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 01:37:16 am
content: I plan to get ASUS Mini ATX motherboard. How about the motherboard chip set?ASUS H610M MATX MB is the lower end, with 6xx chip set.Seem next higher (is middle of road) is 7xx chip set.Top is 8xxDIY seller points to below two CPU for non gaming. seem i5 is safe and more than enough for linux server.May be a big fin heat sink. my last original intel fan spring become loosen after time and overheat. replaced with a no brand big heatsink and okhttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236788/intel-core-i5-processor-14400-20m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz/specifications.htmlhttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236774/intel-core-i3-processor-14100-12m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz/specifications.html

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 02:22:26 am
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 28, 2024, 10:03:14 pmYou haven't said what kind of network this will be serving over. That's pretty important.If you only have gigE or anything up to Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) then you don't need anything like Pi 5 or x86 performance for file sharing.A Pi 3 level board can easily saturate gigE -- providing only that it actually has a gigE network interface, and an NVMe (in your case -- spinning rust would be fine too)interface.That doesn't apply to an actual Pi 3 or as far as I know its main Arm competitors, but lots of cheap RISC-V boards have not only gigE but two of them, and very often an M.2 2280 NVMe slot too, capable of near 400 MB/s (which is far faster than the 125 MB/s or so a gigE can do).And they typically use around 3 W at idle. And cost less than the N100 or i3.That's BPI-F3, but a VisionFive 2 should do the same.Or Milk-V Jupiter if you want Mini-ITX. Geerling has test results for that one:https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/47And VisionFive 2:https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/10Pi 5 for comparison:https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/21They'll all do this job. The Pi 5 has the more powerful CPU, but only has one gigE, has slowish WIFI (Geerling got ~200 Mbps, vs 300+ Mbps on the Jupiter), and needs an additional M.2 HAT to take the NVMe drive.If you have 2.5 Gbps ethernet then the Radxa X4 N100 will fill that up, but then it idles at 9W. It also has much higher NVMe speeds .. over 1500 MB/sec -- but kind of irrelevant if you're poking it down the network at only 300 M/s (2.4 Gbps).https://github.com/geerlingguy/sbc-reviews/issues/48

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 05:40:51 am
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 01:37:16 amOk, consumer shit.My suggestions:1. Do you plan bare Linux/Samba or something more advanced like OMV or even TrueNAS (which is an excellent solution!) Then you should go for the project websites for hardware suggestions. TrueNAS for example has got relatively high RAM requirements for ZFS.2. Use 2.5G Ethernet. Cards, systems and switches have become cheap enough for this to be a no-brainer.3. Get a board that supports bifurcation. This means the 16 lanes of a slot can be divided into two 8 lane or 4 4 lane PCIe ports. This is very useful for M.2 NVMe cards. PCIe carrier boards using bifurcation are cheap (50€), carriers for 4 M.2 slots for standard x16 PCIe are much more expensive (200€) since they need a PCIe bridge chip.4. If your system is tucked away in the basement you will want to have remote manangement capabilities like IPMI. Only real server gear has this. It's really awesome - think of it as a kind of hardware vnc.ok, you see, I'm a professional admin managing >>500TB at work.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 09:44:16 am
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 01:37:16 amSuggestion: ASROCKRACK. This is specifically made for server use.https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C256D4I-2T#SpecificationsDual 10G Ethernet8 SATA or two x4 PCIe on the Oculink connectorsRemote management hardwareServer chipset

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 11:45:59 am
content: For a home use server I'll choose the i3. Have had an i3 in a desktop once (later upgraded to i7 mostly because the need of running virtual machines). The i3 worked surprisingly well, and at very low power, the fan was staying off most of the time. I don't recall any problems with Linux switching the Intel power levels.For a home use that is on 24/7, you may want to consider the cost of electricity, and the noise from the fans. A dedicated rack server makes an unbearable noise, and it is way more power hungry than an i3.RPi is not a good option, it has considerably lower performance in network, disk and memory bandwidth. For a server, good data throughput is much more important than the CPU speed. The CPU bottleneck usually happens later, under heavy load with many parallel requests (usually from a swarm of users), while the bandwidth data rates (between various internal parts of a PC) can be reached even with a single user.So, unless you want to sacrifice performance for a lower power bill, I won't think of RPi as a long term server solution. Though, if that is what you already have, a RPi can be a file server, as long as you are the only user and don't care much about high speed transfers.Can't comment about N100, never used one.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 11:57:39 am
content: Quote from: RoGeorge on December 29, 2024, 11:45:59 amUnless your network is 2.5G or 10G you're not sacrificing anything with an RPi 5 (or even the lower CPU performance RISC-V boards I mentioned). They will all saturate 1 gig ethernet or WIFI.The difference between 3 W (typical Arm and RISC-V boards) and 9 W (N100) idle is around 50 kWh/year. No huge deal, but it's $10 - $20 in most places.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 11:58:37 am
content: https://www.the-diy-life.com/raspberry-pi-5-vs-intel-n100-pc-which-is-right-for-you/https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/04/29/raspberry-pi-5-intel-n100-mini-pc-comparison-features-benchmarks-price/

author: pardo-bsso
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 12:02:14 pm
content: Quote from: fchk on December 29, 2024, 05:40:51 amDo you have suggestions for an entry model (or ones that while deprecated might still be a good choice for an amateur setup)?I'm trying to build something similar here in Argentina on a limited budget.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 07:23:38 pm
content: Any experience of ASUS product line CSMCorporate Stable Model (CSM) program is designed to provide stable motherboards to any scale of businesses with up to 36-month supply, EOL notice & ECN control, and IT management software – ASUS Control Center Express.https://www.asus.com/hk-en/motherboards-components/motherboards/csm/

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 08:27:57 pm
content: IsLGA1700 CPU socket fair-price, mainstream for my said Linux server application?May be intel-core-i5-14400is faster than needed, to have feel-safe margin. Although the I3-14100 may be enough.https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236788/intel-core-i5-processor-14400-20m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz/specifications.htmlhttps://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/236774/intel-core-i3-processor-14100-12m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz/specifications.html

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 08:43:52 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 07:23:38 pmThat will make sense only if you have a whole floor of cubicles for 50-100 PC operators, and one IT guy to manage them all remotely in case one of the workstations has a problem. For a single board at home it's worthless, and only comes with yet another possible security issue (in case some bad actor finds a vulnerability in the ASUS Control Center software).The rest of the words is marketing bloatware, it doesn't mean that is "more stable" than other boards. If it were to be "more stable" you will see some numbers, by how much "more stable". The rest of the "features" are not of much use, not even for a corporate user. As for a single user and home use, it is absolutely useless if you get notified or not in advance for when they'll stop produce such boards, and so on.In general, the solutions destined for office-like desktops are the worst in terms of speed and performance. Casual office worker does spreadsheet work all day long, reading emails and text editing. Heavy lifting is done by servers. Such corporate/office workstations are made for low cost (because a corporation need to buy a hundred boards at once), they wouldn't be optimized for performance.

author: fchk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 09:53:48 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 08:27:57 pmYou start with the wrong things. CPU is not that important.You want a server. Ok, get server hardware:1. Suitable number and speed of network interfaces (2.5G, 10G)2. Enough PCIe lanes for all devices. Especially consumer systems tend to have not enough of them.3. RAM: Enough in case of capacity and bandwidth. Memory bandwidth is nowadays as important as raw computing power.4. Storage.5. Managebility.For your needs 10 year old server equipment is better than a new reporposed gaming rig.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 09:57:32 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 29, 2024, 01:09:05 amThat's for sure. And if it's only used locally, it will most likely spend most of its time doing absolutely nothing. I recommend choosing a motherboard that supports Wake-on-lan, and putting the server into standby when not in use. That's what I've been doing for years.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 10:22:04 pm
content: Quote from: fchk on December 29, 2024, 09:53:48 pmThis is simply terrible advice for a home server, with probably 1 to 5 very much intermittent clients.There is no reason to use hardware that is any "better" than the clients, and if it is only doing file serving then probably considerably cheaper is fine as the main thing driving clients is GUI, web browsing, video decoding none of which are relevant to a file server.Absent a specific demonstrated need, 2.5G and 10G are a waste of time and money and 1G will do the job absolutely fine. Even 200-300 Mbps WIFI is probably fast enough, and 100 Mbps ethernet might well be too, but it's pretty much gone from new equipment now and 1000 is cheap.A 10 year old server is going to be large, heavy, noisy, and use several hundred dollars a year of electricity.A gaming rig is equally unnecessary, and the OPs original thoughts of a Pi5 or N100 are far more appropriate, overkill even with a 1 Gbps network.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 10:46:12 pm
content: A PI5 is so expensive that you can buy a second hand office PC and run it for years to break even with electricity. Because it's the Pi, a SSD hat, a housing, a power supply, heatsink, an SSD, and you are suddenly at 200 EUR.

author: John B
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 10:47:05 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on December 29, 2024, 12:24:46 amWhich board are you using / looking at? Generally if you need GPIO pins for serial, i2c, spi, interrupts etc, I would recommend RPi as the GPIO libraries are well supported and maintained in multiple programming languages.But in your case it just sounds like you need a PC with the usual inbuilt capabilities like USB, ethernet etc. Just low power consumption.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2024, 11:23:15 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 29, 2024, 10:46:12 pmSure and 2nd hand office PCs are what I always recommend to people who are short on money and want a computer to use for general computer things. You can get complete Core 2 Duo machines with monitor and everything for prices right down to $0. Heck I haven't checked for a while, so that's probably true of Sandy Bridge or maybe even Skylake by now.New can never compete on price with used.And Pi 5 prices are out of step with previous Pi generations.Edit: checked and here's a Lenovo desktop with i7-4770S, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB hard disk, Windows 10, LCD monitor (size unknown, maybe 24"?), KB & mouse going with a $1 reserve price, near me. I don't know what it will end up going for, but surely a lot less than any base Pi 4 or Pi 5 even, and for a much better computer. Maybe I'll watch the auction -- I haven't for a while.https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/computers/desktops/lcd-monitor/listing/5094484998

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2024, 12:03:17 am
content: Used Lenovo Thinkcentre are a "popular" option for this. Small, powerful enough and can be had for not much. Much smaller and lower power than an old tower desktop computer.If you have a bit more means, new N100-based mini PCs are also a good option.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2024, 12:28:35 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on December 30, 2024, 12:03:17 amThat's why I picked that listing. Quite suitable.I'm almost tempted to low bid on it. On the other hand I have a faster i7-4790K tower with 32 GB RAM sitting in another room that I haven't turned on since early 2015 (because I moved to another country and came back in 2020 with a 32 core ThreadRipper I built while in the USA)

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2024, 01:03:02 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on December 29, 2024, 10:46:12 pmyes, that is true. N100 or Intel i3 PC are already assembled nicely and ready to work in the stated use case

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2024, 01:09:30 am
content: Quote from: fchk on December 29, 2024, 09:53:48 pmWhere to buy second hand computing stuff that are good quality "business" units, being swapped out in batch by company when they are end of "business need" (not fast enough computer slow down people vs staff hour salary)What are remote management service for proper server? May be a small embedded MCU, may be on separate network interface card that sysadmin can log on to check server status, power, temperature, re-boot, etc...

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 07:24:09 pm
content: Is i5-14400 or i5-13400 good to buy? Are they affected by recent "issues"?Are they "same" or I missed something? Both Rapter, same 16 threads, 6 P core, 4 E cores, same TDP?

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 08:53:51 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on January 04, 2025, 07:24:09 pmThe 14 is a year newer than the 13.I don't know about that particular chip, but there was no more than about 5% difference between the i9-13900HX (which I have) and i9-14900HX. Which apparently don't have the problem -- only the K desktop models do.The chips you mention have maximum speeds below 5 GHz. They won't have problems.Apparently the laptop and desktop parts are the same physical chip inside, it's just a quaestion of the cooling and how much voltage is fed into them to achieve a MHz, and the desktop parts turned out to be tooooo much voltage.Those are obviously very fine CPUs, but much more powerful than the ones listed in the post subject line.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 09:43:45 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on January 04, 2025, 08:53:51 pmMany thanks.Yes, these CPU are too fast. With input from forum, I am changing my mind to buying something, as learning machine, to be faster than needed which is IO bounded than CPU speed.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 09:53:56 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on December 29, 2024, 11:23:15 pmUpdate: two hours to go on that auction and current price is NZ$70 (US$39). Very cheap for what is still an excellent computer -- and with Win11 install and Win8 and Win7 CDs -- but I don't think it will go for that. But probably still well under US$200.The same seller also has a Samsung laser printer which hasn't yet attracted even a $1 bid. I'd be tempted by both if it wasn't a 40 litres of fuel and six hours drive there and back.

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2025, 10:25:22 pm
content: I have a N5105 mini PC that I was using for some file sharing and CCTV last year before I upgraded.Works great even at that power for general file server stuff. The N95/N100 has superseded the N5101 and the N305 is nearly double the power for double the wattage of the N100.If you are just after a 1-2.5Gbps NIC and an NVMe on a network drive, you probably wont go wrong with one of those N100 mini PCs.You wont be able to max them even pulling the full port speed and encryption.This is the updated N95 mini PC that I got. Comes with 16GB of RAM and 512GB of SSD now. Was N5105 with 12GB/256GB when I got it for the same price!https://www.amazon.co.uk/NiPoGi-Lake-%CE%9D95-Computer-supporto-Bluetooth4-2/dp/B0C24GL3L3?tag=a002ee-21It has room for a 2.5" SATA HDD/SSD inside, 2x 5gbps USB , 2x 4K HDMI ports and all for less than 15w of power.Oh and a copy of Windows.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 12:43:16 am
content: I've set up a file server with a used Dell 3050 mini PC. It uses a laptop CPU and chipset so it it is energy friendly. It uses about 10 W at idle, and at full load it still uses less power than a desktop PC at idle. I use it with a 5 Bay USB 3 to SATA enclosure. I also replaced the m.2 (A+E keyed) WiFi card with a 2.5 GbE card. Even with the modest CPU it easily saturates the 2.5 GbE with either Samba sharing or ZFS send or receive operations (280 MB/s). The cost was comparable to a higher-RAM RPi. I'm very happy with it.I also recently picked up a used Netgear ReadyNAS 314, which is a small 4 drive NAS. This is a Intel Atom CPU which is no speed demon but is a 64 bit AMD64 CPU. After popping a 4 GB SODIMM into it, I installed Debian (latest Bookworm with 6.11 kernel) and ZFS and it works brilliantly. I might look into merging Netgear code for the front panel buttons, LEDs, and LCD display but that is not very important. This thing sips even less power than the above mentioned server and will serve me well as a backup.

author: Wilson__
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 02:49:45 pm
content: ended at 255 NZDhttps://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/computers/desktops/lcd-monitor/listing/5094484998

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 06:08:46 pm
content: Quote from: Wilson__ on January 05, 2025, 02:49:45 pmYup. As I predicted, well under US$200 (NZ$356)

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 06:11:56 pm
content: Quote from: brucehoult on January 05, 2025, 06:08:46 pmSeems a lot for a machine that seems like its more than 10 years old.... although it says something about 4 years of use.

author: brucehoult
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2025, 10:53:27 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on January 05, 2025, 06:11:56 pmi7-4770 Geekbench 6 around 1200 single core 4000 multi-core vs N100 single core 1200 multi-core 3100, or Pi 5 single core 900 multi-core 1800.So it's at least as useful, assuming reliability etc. And that price includes what looks like a 24" full hd monitor and (late addition) a Samsung laser printer.The only real downside is the higher electricity usage.Here's an i7-4790 (200 MHz higher base clock, 100 MHz higher turbo, so basically the same thing) for nearly twice the STARTING price as that 4770 ended at. It's got 32 GB RAM vs 8 GB, but no kb or mouse or monitor.https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/computers/desktops/no-monitor/listing/5102293594Of course they might or might not get any bids at all.