Altium Price Rises - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 12:19:02 am
content: Email to customers.QuoteI get that inflation is happening, but what "costs" are increasing for a 100% software company like Altium?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 12:33:58 am
content: Salaries are probably the biggest part. And just grabbing some extra cash while you can does not hurt either, I guess.They know that some people have their stuff deeply in the design process and the cost of switching is high, so they can do whatever they want to an extent.

author: SpacedCowboy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 01:57:16 am
content: Glad I just bought a permanent license

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 02:10:25 am
content: Can we expect this type of apology from Altiumhttps://youtu.be/VC66uGR2WFo

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 02:45:20 am
content: They have a bunch of developers in Ukraine .... get it ?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 07:09:35 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 01, 2022, 02:45:20 amLast I heard the majority of the PCB group was in the Ukraine. I wonder how they are doing?They went there after the China debacle.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 07:11:55 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on June 01, 2022, 12:33:58 amYep, I expect salires are by far the biggest cost. Would be interesting to know how much it's actually increased.Pure software companies are usually in a way better position to control and hold prices than hardware companies are.Never let a good crisis go to waste of course.Not sure why they even bothered to email customers, don't Altium prices go up and down like a yo-yo anyway?

author: voltsandjolts
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 09:51:15 am
content: My sub/maintenance for perpetual license is due this month, it's up to GBP1700+VAT. Hmm.As noted above, they may well have extra costs due to business disruption in Ukraine.If they are indeed supporting jobs there, it makes me inclined to renew.

author: JPortici
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 10:53:02 am
content: The whole diptrace team is based in ukrainebut AFAIK they haven't updated the pricing nor stopped developing (developing process has slowed down for obvious reasons)

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 11:30:09 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 01, 2022, 07:11:55 amI would say in recent memory it has been only “yo” rather than “yo-yo”With respect to the email, although the inflation is real, I don’t think they really care that much about informing their customers of price rises. It is more of a sneaky sales tactic I think; I have seen many companies do this throughout COVID.Basically, announce that prices are going up at a certain date, encourage people to buy in before that date to save money, ie an appeal to FOMO. Only catch is that I’ve seen a bunch of companies do sales a few months later at the original price…

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 12:20:43 pm
content: I got the info that the subscription is a 5% increase, which is below inflation. IMHO it's OK, since someone else is paying for it, and the subscription price was some made up number in the first place.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 03:25:46 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 01, 2022, 12:19:02 amWell, one of their sales reps told me that the US$4k subscription lapse penalty is because that's just what it "costs" to add users back to the subscription server (OW, updating a row in a database?) so I'm not sure there's any strong correlation between costs and price where Altium is concerned.I would hope that the real answer is developer salaries, but as a user that doesn't mean much if the end product doesn't show any apparent development in the parts that matter to me.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 03:33:30 pm
content: I'll probably drop out of maintenance when it expires in December, I'll download the full installer just before it expires and stick with that. Just too expensive to keep going.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 06:46:14 pm
content: This, combined with generally unsatisfactory treatment by the salesforce, is the reason that my manager and I decided today to do a simple, but real, design in KiCad to see how it goes. It is an iteration of a standard design that we understand very well, so any challenges should become clear.John

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 08:11:30 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 01, 2022, 06:46:14 pmIf you run into trouble, lots of friendly people on the KiCad forum:https://forum.kicad.info/And if you wish, there is even commercial support available:https://www.kipro-pcb.com/

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 01, 2022, 09:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 01, 2022, 06:46:14 pmDo you have a license already?I don't get people that have an Altium license and complain about subscription costs. Just get a perpetual license and don't pay subscription if its an issue.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 02:41:16 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 01, 2022, 09:17:25 pmAltium licenses are perpetual. The subscription is only so you keep getting updates. When subscription stops you are frozen at the last version/service pack you paid for. it keeps working.

author: SpacedCowboy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 03:17:30 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 02, 2022, 02:41:16 amReally ? Because that’s not how the rep explained it to me. A yearly subscription is about $4k, and expires after 1 year. The perpetual license is ~$11k, and includes 1 year of subs that doesn’t stop working after a year, but you don’t get updates past that year unless you pay for another yearly subs.I’m pretty sure you don’t have to buy the initial permanent license - you can just keep paying $4k/year and it’ll stop working on the 12 month anniversary… I’ll be very annoyed if I’ve just coughed up $12k when $4k would get me the same end result…

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 03:41:06 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on June 02, 2022, 02:41:16 amI'm currently locked out of Altium Designer because my license expired.

author: jeremy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 06:30:21 am
content: a "friend" of mine had a "perpetual" license for Altium but no subscription. Altium changed some of their server side stuff with respect to parts searching that broke in older versions of Altium. The support response was basically just "oh your subscription ran out? money please"

author: Gerhard_dk4xp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 07:51:44 am
content: I did it the other way around, 2016, file-based -eternalMe: My AD is crashing here during start-up. DID work yesterday.AD: You have a paid subscription, but we won't help you since you are running VMware.They cannot handle networks.Me: Looks like I have to help myself. [ take a new virtual machine from Backup disk ]AD: [ a few months later ] It's time for the next 1600 €!Me: No!It turned out that I had renamed an old library from .lib to .schlib to free the extension.lib for association with a different program.VMware CAN do networks. It is their core business.AD makes not even the slightest plausibility checks when reading files.I just witnessed a spam campaign before the end of the second quarter to renew.The wording is as if I had no valid license. I renewed in 2020 to note thateverything is different, new bugs, tries to link me to their cloud but nothing thatis of interest to me. Cancelled again.Gerhard

author: PKTKS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 08:50:32 am
content: It sounds to me like CLOUD besides meaning someone's else RACK now mean someone's else pockets as wellPaul

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 11:59:27 am
content: Quote from: evb149 on June 02, 2022, 06:24:48 amIsn't that the other way around? With a perpetual license you are safe; software won't stop working. Even better would be to have a dongle like Orcad has. But you can likely get a cracked copy in case your computer breaks and Altium isn't available to transfer the license to a different machine.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 12:20:38 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 01, 2022, 09:17:25 pmWe have a number of licenses. Our company is growing, and our usage has been increasing.If you want or need any flexibility at all, you pay more. Want to move a license, you pay. Want to keep your versions sync'd, you upgrade. What's that, you didn't pay back maintenance? Oh, then you can pay all the annual back maintenance, then pay even more to upgrade. Want some flexibility, pay more for a floating license. What's that, you want to use your floating license at a remote site? That'll cost you more! Overseas, even more again!! Got a problem, found a bug? You're doing it wrong...Maybe sticking to an old perpetual licensed version of Altium works in your situation, but it doesn't work for us.John

author: Jester
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 12:34:33 pm
content: Years ago we had a well known Ivy League marketing consultant spend a few days at our company to give the engineering management a crash course on marketing. One of the first things he told us was that we had to get the idea out of our heads that the selling price of something has any relationship to the cost of producing / developing / providing the product or service. The selling price is simply what the market is willing to pay.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 01:59:06 pm
content: Quote from: jc101 on June 01, 2022, 03:33:30 pmNo need for that. You can still download installers and it will work just fine up to the last supported version of the SW.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 03:00:28 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on June 02, 2022, 01:59:06 pmI tend to keep the last few full off-line installer packages, I do this for a number of bits of software. I have some dev stuff that doesn't have internet access and full installers are needed for those.I didn't think you could download without a valid user account, I guess my account will remain but show as out of maintenance - I'll find out in December unless they offer some stunning deal, I won't hold my breath.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 04:12:46 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 02, 2022, 12:20:38 pmIf it were a matter of only paying the back maintenance fees that would be one thing, but regardless of how long the subscription has been lapsed there is--per the last rep I spoke to around the end of the year--a flat $4k subscription lapse penalty on top of the new subscription fee per seat. Other software with a subscription support model, like Solidworks, only charges the back maintenance for the lapsed period up to the cost of a new license. That's entirely fair for a subscription update model as far as I'm concerned, whereas Altium are just being dicks about it because they can.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 02, 2022, 09:34:49 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 02, 2022, 12:20:38 pmIf you need the latest and greatest Altium version and cloud, then I can't see how Kicad is a viable alternative.The ALF license I used you just drop it on ANY PC and run it, doesn't matter where it is, or if you installed it somewhere else. Although they have georestricted now as you say, blueskull had to use a VPN to get around that AFAIK.Maybe they don't sell that licenses type any more, or maybe you have to fight through sales bullshit to get one, don't know.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2022, 12:16:43 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on June 02, 2022, 09:34:49 pmI never said we needed the cloud. This not useful to us no matter how hard the sell. Our boards are not complex in the sense of parts and high numbers of nodes, and aside from the database library, KiCad may be enough. We will do a design and find out.We don't need the latest and greatest for our designs, but if you want to add an Altium license, you have to add the latest and greatest. If you want any support, you have to have to pay for the latest and greatest whether you install it or not. If you have to manage a group of people, it can be a headache to manage multiple versions, because it makes it a lot tougher to keep everyone consistent. When we implemented some consistent design procedures and flow, our manufacturing yield went way up and rework went way down, so we are keeping the process in place.Also, we are not going to use a VPN to get around the license because it is likely to be illegal, and we won't do that as a company.Altium has some really nice features, and it could be great. But for our situation, the cost of doing business with them has become painful enough that we will invest some actual resources to evaluate KiCad as an alternative. We know that making a switch will be painful. But our current situation is also painful and shows no sign of getting better. Just the opposite, it appears.John

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2022, 01:11:59 am
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 03, 2022, 12:16:43 amLicense should support any earlier version, so everyone would run the oldest common build. Paying the maintenance costs was probably not necessary, unless they made a specific deal.https://digitalsales.altium.com/If you don't need the features for the price, then that's a different argument, and totally valid now that Kicad is more mature.

author: andyturk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 11, 2022, 04:25:34 am
content: FWIW, in late 2020 I bought a "perpetual" AD license for $4k USD. It allows me to use it one one machine at a time as long as there's an internet connection at startup. I've seen folks recommend using a file-based (.alf) license, but the Altium sales rep said that wasn't a possibility for the kind of license I have.When they hit me up for subscription $$, I declined. So now I'm stalled at AD21.9.2, but that's fine for my needs. It definitely paid for itself in projects over the first couple of years, so I'm not complaining (much).The retail price for a full license when I got mine was $9k USD, so they were willing to discount significantly, but it depended on internal Altium sales team horoscopes. I let them know what I was willing to pay and the rep finally contacted me in December (several months later) and said he had approval if I'd give him a credit card number that day over the phone. I didn't appreciate the arm twisting, but got what I wanted.I run Altium in a Win10 VM on a beefy MacBook Pro (intel) and it's plenty fast. Zooming around with a 3dconnexion mouse is silky smooth with just the integrated GPU.I have a vastly beefier iMac Pro which I'd hoped to use with Altium, but the same Altium VM crashes the entire imac when I drag components in 2D. It'll start inverting triangles all over the screen and then eventually die with a windowserver watchdog timeout, requiring a hardware reboot. That's a MacOS problem, not an Altium problem. Thanks, Apple.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2022, 11:30:52 am
content: Quote from: andyturk on June 11, 2022, 04:25:34 amIf it works for you at present, then it's still going to be working for you in a decades time.Unless you are on the corporate coin, or absolutely must have the latest version to client work, there is little incentive to upgrade.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2022, 01:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 13, 2022, 11:30:52 amProbably the latest update was the Draftsman. It really changed the way I am creating technical documentations for the boards, and I truly think it saves me days of work on a yearly basis.Its perfect to create assembly guides. It is great to mark isolation distances. It is very useful tool.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 17, 2022, 03:21:53 am
content: Quote from: tszaboo on June 14, 2022, 01:07:47 pmAnd that's the point, you really only need to upgrade when something new like that comes along that improves your workflow. Once you have that and it works, there is no real need to pay for maintenance and minor upgrades.

author: boB
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 17, 2022, 05:03:51 am
content: I'm so glad that Eagle works great for my company and will never expire.We have many seats so even though it is "legal" for us to use, it is the version just before Autodesk so is plenty good enough most everything we do with it which is quite a lot.At least I haven't been spoiled by using Altium.I do miss Pads some times though.boB

author: Hawaka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2022, 06:38:47 pm
content: Today I got an email from Altium that the price raise for my type of licence (I believe it's on demand, perpetual) will be 12%. Did you all get that info? Will they make different rises depending on licences type?

author: SpacedCowboy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 22, 2022, 03:21:39 pm
content: Got the same thing, yes. Since it’s perpetual, I’m guessing it’s the yearly subs that will increase, which for me will be an evaluation based on need, so … meh

author: Spark-Doctor
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2022, 10:17:12 am
content: QuoteJune 2022, if you are in subscription, to renew £1625.00 + VAT. Out of subscription £3360.00 + VATJuly 2022, if you are in subscription, to renew £1725.00 + VAT. Out of subscription £3535.00 + VATThey did offer me 15% discount in June and 20% discount in July but refused to budge on the renewing fee. I declined and stayed with my perpetual license.

author: jayk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 07:23:53 pm
content: Crazy how expensive Altium has become. I'm paying a little over $2K/yr for PADS Professional. There's plenty I dislike about it, but it's pretty good for most things and the support is great. Like any of these tools, once you learn it (which takes a while), you can get things done pretty quickly. I wonder if Altium is really twice as good.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 05, 2022, 08:16:01 pm
content: PADS is advertised at $3k/year on their website:https://eda.sw.siemens.com/en-US/pcb/pads/professional/A perpetual license is $9000. Altium almost twice that.Feature wise it seems to be similar to Altium, maybe some nicer RF stuff. But a lot of those features are rarely used (FPGAs, signal analysis).https://static.sw.cdn.siemens.com/siemens-disw-assets/public/82839/en-US/Siemens-SW-Is-Your-Pcb-design-tool-up-to-Speed-WP-82839-C1.pdf

author: jayk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2022, 04:51:30 am
content: They have better pricing for consultants, but navigating their sales org isn't easy. I'm not sure about the comparison tables in that document... a lot of the stuff they mention is not part of the basic PADS Pro package, and I'm not sure how much extra it costs (again, getting numbers out of the sales org is not easy as a little guy). In addition to schematic and PCB, the basic PADS Pro includes a version of Hyperlynx that's stripped-down but still fairly useful for basic SI. I don't think there's any PI included. I'm not sure about the analog/mixed-signal sim... I generally just use LTSpice for that sort of thing.

author: Analog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 15, 2022, 01:34:35 pm
content: They lost me this time. Too many features and products I don't need or want and zero effort on things I do want. I wish I would have dropped off back in Ver 17 and saved the money towards another package.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 23, 2022, 11:11:20 pm
content: Quote from: shodan@micron on August 23, 2022, 01:48:00 pmWe all know the real reason why Altium closed sales in Russia.Enjoy KiCAD.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 04:25:21 am
content: This weeks reporting.QuoteDon't expect a price reduction anytime soon the shareholders need to be happy.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 03:01:27 pm
content: In the meantime, my employer has been spending time to see if we can move some of our designs to KiCAD. So far, we have transferred one design with some minor issues that were straightforward to resolve.At the moment, we are looking to see if we can implement our custom DRC rules. Our current rules are there so that we can have floating circuit net classes so that within the floating net class, we can have a low voltage clearance, but everything outside of the floating net class will have a higher voltage clearance (it's for a floating gate drive and some other floating circuitry). It needs to accommodate the IPC rules for outer and inner layers.If we can implement our rules within the KiCAD environment, there are two remaining hurdles. The first is whether or not we can manage our output files in a semi-automated way (we use outjob files quite a bit) and the second is our desire for the implementation of a database library.We have been pleasantly surprised at how well it has gone so far. Still a bit to go, though.John

author: pointhi
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2022, 10:04:35 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on August 24, 2022, 03:01:27 pmSome hints:Output Automation: For examplehttps://github.com/INTI-CMNB/kibotDatabase Library PR:https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/merge_requests/1282

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 25, 2022, 12:50:52 pm
content: Quote from: pointhi on August 24, 2022, 10:04:35 pmThanks for the heads up. I know about some of the extensions for output and panelization, and we would not have started down this road if we didn't think we could make it work. We also have a contractor who has some Python capability and has written some simple but very useful scripts to process our Altium outputs (outjob files are nice, but not quite enough).I knew the work on the database was slated for V7, but it's nice to see the progress.John

author: Analog
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 02, 2022, 01:11:28 pm
content: Quote from: beanflying on August 24, 2022, 04:25:21 amDo not, my friends, become addicted to profit. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence! -Immortan Joe

author: ajawamnet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 03, 2022, 01:42:04 pm
content: They recently released a new 3-tier subscription thing. They removed Multiboard from the "standard" tier. This clown they have running the marketing ship's gotta gohttps://www.altium.com/altium-designer/subscriptionI really don't use multiboard - it's hard enough to get Altium to do a single PCB correctly with minimal bugs...

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 02:54:41 pm
content: Quote from: ajawamnet on September 03, 2022, 01:42:04 pmHmm, I wonder what the price tiers are like. I could live with the standard features if the price point for that was reasonable--say a few hundred bucks a year, assuming enterprise will be at the current ~2k/yr?EDIT: according to the online chat the Standard tier is US$1995 and pro is US$2990, so lol nope. It boggles my mind how they can justify gutting so many features from the standard tier for that amount of money.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 08:58:10 pm
content: If they removed multiboard and made Standard cheaper that would be fair enough. But we all know that doesn't happen.And they are straight up saying: if you pay less your support will be worse, and have lower priority, lol.Quote from: ajb on September 06, 2022, 02:54:41 pmThe price is listed right on the website, but maybe you got a discounted version.$4k and $5k USD.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 10:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 06, 2022, 08:58:10 pmAhh, I didn't see that you could select an option and see the pricing openly now. Kinda nice that they don't hide it I guess? Anyway the pricing the chat bot gave me was for the subscription only, not counting a license. So it'd be US$2-3k *on top of* a perpetual license. Which brings up another question: so if you bought a perpetual license for a version that included multiboard, and then don't pay for the Pro sub, I guess you just...lose that feature?Also the Pro tier includes "Multi-Site License usage (Geo Scope)", not sure what that is, but I wonder if it intersects with what they used to call floating licenses? Shouldn't a subscription-based software license inherently be multi-site, since presumably you'd need to be logged in to validate the license anyway?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2022, 11:43:39 pm
content: They have some crazy license restrictions where you can't buy a license in one country and use it in another.Usually this is because of heavy discounts in certain countries (eg Russia and China) where they believe either: competition is higher, or pirated use is higher. But since Mr Blue is not around any more I'm not sure if anyone can comment on that.Quote

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2022, 01:22:05 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 06, 2022, 11:43:39 pmSecond one. I'm yet to see a company in China that have official licencing of any software. Last one I do some work for, Windows, Office, Solidworks, Photoshop and PCB solution was all cracked versions. Same with most personal computers at home.Except if it is a laptop or a desktop bought from Dell or Lenovo or any SI, all software is cracked since there are no laws against it here or are not enforced. The Chinese call it "Sharing".That's also applied to any product that is copied into oblivion with different brands selling the same thing, just changing the logo or some physical lines.

author: ajawamnet
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 18, 2022, 02:56:24 pm
content: The IP lawyers here in D.C. told me it's called "Efficient Infringement"

author: dastructhm
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 28, 2022, 02:20:15 am
content: I always wonder the meaning of the word "Altium". Does anyone know?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 09:05:25 am
content: Quote from: dastructhm on September 28, 2022, 02:20:15 amThey inherited rights to the name from someone, I think it was one of the companies they have bought over the years. When looking for a new company name they realised they already had right to one that was pretty unique.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 09:06:57 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on September 06, 2022, 08:58:10 pmA lot of people would actually be happy with that tradeoff.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 03, 2022, 09:50:41 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 03, 2022, 09:06:57 amAbsolutely, if there was a cost savings.I probably should have worded it instead as: pay the regular amount and we admit to giving you poor support at the lowest priority. Pay us more to queue jump.

author: labnet
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2022, 05:13:50 am
content: I've just been on the renewal treadmill for our 5 licenses.Here's something newQuote,'it will not be possible to Reactivate lapsed subscriptions from January 2023'Sounds like a veiled threat.Prices are now AUD15k for perm licence, $2200/annum subs.I remember when it used to AUD5k!

author: Hydron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 28, 2022, 05:31:10 pm
content: They want GBP 2k + VAT now for continuing our subscription, 21% more than last year! Only paid about 4k+VAT for the perpetual license (inc. the first year of subs) in the first place ~2 years ago. AUD2200 is an absolute bargain compared to that! (Is that discounted for number of seats?)Time to seriously think about whether updates are worth the money, even given the whole no-reactivation thing (and a new perpetual license being 10k!).

author: mooreaa
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 26, 2023, 10:31:29 pm
content: My renewal was going up $100 each year. Last year was $1995 for Standard. This year they are wanting $2495. Quite the jump.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 02:40:49 am
content: Quote from: mooreaa on February 26, 2023, 10:31:29 pmThose share dividends don't pay for themslves.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 11:25:40 am
content: It's amazing how much effort they've made in calling & emailing me recently to try get me to reactivate...

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 11:48:28 am
content: Same here. Call every two weeks.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 03:21:50 pm
content: Quote from: Kean on February 28, 2023, 11:25:40 amDid you already get the threats that you need to pay more if you want to come back?

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 03:24:25 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 28, 2023, 03:21:50 pm

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 04:15:37 pm
content: Quote from: tszaboo on February 28, 2023, 03:21:50 pmI want to let you know that the program for reactivating the subscription for your Altium Designer perpetual license(s) ends in 2023.If you don’t reactivate your subscription before the program ends, you won’t get the latest version of Altium Designer and other subscription benefits without having to purchase a new perpetual license. However, we have a special offer you can take advantage of now.If you reactivate your subscription now you’ll get 14 months total subscription time. This is an opportunity to save up to EUR 10,050 when compared to buying a new Altium Designer license.

author: Gerhard_dk4xp
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 04:24:52 pm
content: +1Got another one of these today. The program should end December last year.Seems they could not persuade a lot of people.Gerhard

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2023, 08:26:32 pm
content: Who's paying for the failed products? $millions on development and now they sit and rot, orphaned. What an absolute waste of resources and money.The bonehead that came up with the failed products needs a toss. Imagine all the bug fixes and killer features they could have added to AD."Altium has flexed its pricing power in the six months to December 31, offsetting headwinds and helping the electronic design software business maintain its full-year guidance of 15 per cent to 20 per cent revenue growth."When your only corporate strategy is to jack up prices

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2023, 01:57:44 pm
content: What ticks me off even more at this point is that the"standard" tier license is now site-locked. I kinda wonder what tier I would get if I reactivated my license? I mean, site-locked is a total non-starter for me. I work from home, my office, the office of customers, holliday locations, my inlaws place, a roadside restaurant, whatever.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2023, 02:36:24 am
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on March 01, 2023, 01:57:44 pmYeah, that's dumb, that would also be a total non-starter for me too.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2023, 02:39:52 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on February 28, 2023, 08:26:32 pmThat's nothing. Altium spent more than a decade focussing the company on FPGA's and hardware (I was part fo the hardware group for 4 years). The PCB package literally became "optional extra", I'm not kidding. The result was the share price declined from $5 to 10 cents and stayed there until the founder was booted out in a hostile takeover by his mate who he bailed out by buying his company at an insane premium whcih gave him enough votes to boot him out

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2023, 04:21:23 am
content: Altium users are once again subsidizing corporate waste and idiocy"full-year guidance of 15 per cent to 20 per cent revenue growth" based on nothing added? OUCH. All the energy goes into pricing strategy instead of bug fixes/new features. Sigh.I find 95% of managers, marketing, executives, CEO's are actually clueless about what they are managing, having never i.e. done a schematic and PC board from end-end.Then they focus on catering to investors, and it becomes a milking a cow that died a while back and isn't chewing much cud.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 03:57:52 pm
content: Altium very generously just offered me a renewal fee of £2120 + VAT for the year. It’s 90 days before it’s due so I think they were preparing me for the shock. They just hike it up every year without any real justification. It’s not a small hike at around a 30% increase on last year which was a 30% increase on previous year.I am fed up with constant money grabbing from them. I am extremely reluctant to give them any more money. I will not renew again I think. Current version does what I need.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 10, 2023, 04:25:46 pm
content: I was quite frank with them about the maintenance price of my permanent licence, which was that it was unaffordable. Plus the new policy that if you don't keep the maintenance up and want back in, you must buy another full-price licence. I was officially told that at the time of my renewal. They offered a small discount presented as a "great deal".In the end I offered them a "this is what I can afford, take it or leave it" counter offer just on the renewal date. This was true at the time, as customers hadn't paid up so cash was tight. I was happy to let it lapse if they didn't accept, but they did. So it cost comfortably under 50% of what they offered. If was accept that or nothing.Being a small company helped I think. I've quite a lot of time invested into Altium now, and got a permanent licence at a huge discount following various offers and schemes a few years ago. So I wouldn't want to migrate away unless I really have to.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 12, 2023, 09:24:25 pm
content: EDA vendors/distributors usually have a very wide margin for negotiating fees. I have done that in the past with Zuken Cadstar as well, and had cut the renewal fee to less than 1/3 the initial offering.But yes being a small company definitely helps.

author: beenosam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 06:21:34 am
content: What's the possible lowest price one could even get for Altium now? The price used to be high but still reasonable, but now for a permanent license it is absolutely ridiculous.

author: johnboxall
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 16, 2023, 09:43:03 am
content: Quote from: beenosam on March 16, 2023, 06:21:34 amTry treating it like buying a car before COVID (you know exactly what you want, and how much to pay - you offer $x or walk out).Have your figure in mind, wait until the end of the month and send sales an email ... "I have my credit card in my hand - call me back if you can do it for $x a month/perpetual and I'll pay over the phone today."

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 08:31:05 am
content: Quote from: jc101 on March 10, 2023, 04:25:46 pmTheir entire business model relies on that.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 10:00:53 am
content: Quote from: jc101 on March 10, 2023, 04:25:46 pmI like KiCad quite a lot, but I don't know whether it has "sufficient" usability for you. It also has quite decent importers for altium schematics and PCB's, and I'm sure that if a bunch of altium users would gang up and pay a fraction of what they are used to for altium to commercial support for KiCad, then I am sure any lasting converter issues will be resolved quite quickly.

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 22, 2023, 10:36:10 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on March 22, 2023, 08:31:05 amWhich seems to be the problem. There doesn't seem to be any consistency in how their sales model works, and it appears to be becoming ever more draconian as time passes.Quote from: Doctorandus_P on March 22, 2023, 10:00:53 amI've looked at KiCad, the problem is going through the pain barrier again.I'm not a heavy user by any means, but when I do get into a project, I can get things done pretty quickly. KiCad could probably do most of what I need if I spent the time going through everything. I have a permanent Altium licence, so at the moment, that isn't time well spent. I suspect when I finally drop the maintenance renewal, I will look at running them in parallel for a period. Then eventually make the switch. If I were on a subscription licence things would be different.

author: asmi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 14, 2023, 03:56:18 pm
content: I got a quote for 3K CAD (+tax) for my update sub extension of my permanent license, which is about 20% higher than what it was last year, though part of that increase is undoubtedly weaker CAD.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 10:15:09 am
content: Altium is risking going down the same road as IBM with Microchannel Architecture. Superior architecture, but IBM got too greedy with licensing fees for hardware manufacturers who basically told IBM to get stuffed, and they manufactured PC's using the PCI bus instead. OS/2 was a similar story but it plagued with high prices and dreadful marketing by the IBM dinosaur, compared to Microsoft and Windows.As KiCad or Eagle improves, then Altium better watch its back. Also, after failing to buy Altium, Autodesk is getting in on the act and will become a tough competitor over time. I think the PCBA CAD market will be very different in 10 years or even sooner if Altium does not make its software and subscription prices reasonable for all and sundry.

author: Karel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2023, 10:50:53 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on April 24, 2023, 10:15:09 amYou'r kidding, aren't you? Eagle is dead.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2023, 12:26:22 am
content: Quote from: Karel on April 24, 2023, 10:50:53 amDiscussed in the other thread, when people say Eagle, they probably meant the current fusion360 PCB tool. Which doesn't have its own name..Its terrible currently, but could get better, and could easily compete at the low end where Altium has dropped support ($50/month for f360 vs $380+/month).

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2023, 05:29:27 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on April 25, 2023, 12:26:22 amThe Autodesk product may well improve rapidly, because of the calibre of those behind Fusion 360. Even so, if they don't have good experienced electronics engineers at the helm driving the development, they are wasting their time.The definition of what low-end is these days is blurred. Maybe low-end CAD is not having harnesses, impedance control on differential pair routing or powerful design rules. Or maybe only up to 6 layers and PCB size limitations. Or maybe low-end is putting up with slow routing speeds and bugs in complicated designs.Altium still has bugs of course but they seen fewer these days. But the old saying still holds, "It is doesn't have bugs, it isn't Altium."

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 26, 2023, 10:48:24 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on April 24, 2023, 10:15:09 amAltium has always gone up and down in price.I can remember being in the staff canteen at Frenches Forest when Nick Martin gathered everyone together and announced that they were slashing the price by 75%, permanately.The CEO at the time thought that was dumb and left soon after that.of course, it was back up to the orignal price within a year or something.The current price of AUD$475/month is actually less than it was back in those days, which was about US$10k IIRC (reduced to $2500 with the 75% cut)Sure it's a different monthly format, but huge numbers of users upgraded yearly anyway.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 26, 2023, 05:17:57 pm
content: Well I am fed up with the pricing being all over the place. Altium is marketing heavy. They sent me a renewal offer three months before its due. Some kind of strategy to begin the negotiations. I have never really known anything like it but I will offer them a figure this year. They can take it or leave it but I ain’t paying silly money just because they integrated GitHub into their cad software. It’s a nice feature but I can do that myself really with the git desktop app.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 10:50:06 am
content: Remember how last year we were threatened we would never get back on subscription if we didn't pay up right there and then? Well, to the surprise of not a single person on this planet or at least this board: they are changing their policies.Quote

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 02:07:57 pm
content: What does the policy state? Is there a financial penalty to pay?

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 02:11:10 pm
content: I'm guessing officially the same as before: pay the backlog of subscription fees. But there's no additional information.

author: trevwhite
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 02:23:50 pm
content: Thay have started adding subscription based features too. The pro subscription has constraint manager for example.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 01, 2024, 11:42:28 pm
content: Record high Altium share price

author: mikehoopes
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: February 17, 2024, 09:30:32 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 02, 2022, 03:41:06 amOld thread, but I figured this may be an ongoing concern. I’ve worked with many an expired AD subscription (we’ve let a portion of our seats lapse over the years), and I suspect the only way one gets “locked out” is if they update the client. Even if you’re off subscription, AD will cue the user to perform software updates. They can be installed, but won’t function without a current subscription.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2024, 09:00:58 pm
content: There is a running offer now where no penalties are charged for lapsed subscription, if anyone wants to update an old perpetual license for ~$4k.Even if you have a 10+ year old license they might be able to do it.No idea if Renesas will go and change the prices though, so don't get angry if it drops in the future.

author: ajb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2024, 02:45:13 am
content: Is that part of the 'gear up for growth' thing they emailed me about? I was curious, but not curious enough to request a phone call by clicking on the tracking link.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2024, 08:43:10 pm
content: Quote from: ajb on May 09, 2024, 02:45:13 amDidn't get an email for that, could be.Just one email for free training modules (have to sign up):https://www.altium.com/training/altium-designer

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2024, 08:52:46 pm
content: I got a call from Altium Germany today offering 35% discounts on new licences. I'm not sure why the UK office didn't make the call, and I've not received any emails with offers.Not that I need any new licences. Less bugs would be nice, and not splitting the user base into Standard and Pro would be good too.

author: ahbushnell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2024, 01:37:06 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on June 01, 2022, 06:46:14 pmPlease post the results of your test.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 04:26:56 pm
content: We were able to import the design into KiCad and produce boards that worked. The board was a mix of power and signal, 4 layers of 70 um copper. Here are the main issues we ran into:Needed to update our database library to handle both Altium and KiCad.Lack of padstacks caused a few small issues with some SMD mounted threaded standoffs.Lack of outjob-type capabilities means more complicated production of output files that fit our design process.These were not showstoppers. We have several permanent (we hope) Altium licenses and are still paying maintenance. However, we were in addition paying for a few monthly seats. We have ended that practice since KiCad suffices for those. In addition, we are not adding seats as we grow, since KiCad meets our needs at this time. We use an internal parts database library and have structured the library to work with both Altium and KiCad. This cost us some time and effort, but was worthwhile and now it is a simple matter to add new parts. We do make separate footprints and symbols for KiCad and Altium, but at this point the main work is done and the incremental cost of adding parts is low.Every year, KiCad improves greatly, though keeping up sometimes is extra trouble. This is unavoidable given the goal of becoming a feature-complete professional-level tool. Altium doesn't change much, and most of the changes seem to be in document management. We don't use these changes as our process is set.So, short answer: we are not getting rid of existing permanent Altium seats, but new seats are going to KiCad.John

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2024, 06:43:40 pm
content: I also see yearly improvements in KiCad. Especially when autodesk bought Eagle, it was a great boost for KiCad. A lot of people did not like the subscription model, and there was a lot of buzz around the transition and a lot of people switched to KiCad. And all are welcome (for KiCad) of course, but I guess that most of those people / hobbyists are more in the free (beer) way than in the free (freedom / open source) way.I' am slowly also beginning to see that KiCad is starting to get used in companies as replacement, (or in addition to) "commercial software". KiCad is still a relatively small project, with a limited amount of developers, but all revenue generated is put into man hours to improve KiCad. There are no share holders or other parasites hugging along.You mention the lack of pad stacks, and "outjob-type" capabilities. Both are on KiCad's radar, but because KiCad is still small, it takes a lot of time to implement those.True padstacks and via stacks with differing geometries on different layers (lp:#1827233)https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/2402CAM Manager / output automation / plot and export presetshttps://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/2346If you put a part of the money you save on those extra seats for Altium into KiCad (Via:https://www.kipro-pcb.com/) you can boost the speed with which KiCad development takes place. KiPro does priority development for sponsored features. And as KiCad improves, you can probably transfer more seats to KiCad. In the long run it will save you money.

author: ahbushnell
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 12, 2024, 05:10:49 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 01, 2022, 12:19:02 amTwo points in pricing. One what will people pay and how many people will pay that. And will I cover my costs.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 05:22:28 pm
content: Quote from: JohnG on May 11, 2024, 04:26:56 pmDon't forget to be very, very vocal about this when their reps come calingWouldn't hurt if someone at HQ would go: "huh, maybe wecan'tincrease price ad infinitum".

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 05:26:46 pm
content: I am going to an Altium event in Cambridge (UK) tomorrow. I was mailed and phoned about it last week, so I don't know how many will be there.I expect the licence models and pricing to be discussed in the Q&A at the end of the day, if not before.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 05:29:44 pm
content: Maybe make a bit of a stink abou the geo locked nonsense?

author: jc101
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 15, 2024, 05:36:36 pm
content: I think it's close enough that if I fire up a copy on my laptop while I'm there, I will be within my limit as the crow flies. There is an Altium office nearby too. I have no idea what they do there. I had a phone call from Germany about the event.It might cause a stir, as it would be on an Apple Silicon MacBook Pro running a virtual machine with Windows ARM 64bit, into which I have Altium installed. It works, just about. It's good enough for checking stuff when out of the office. I'm impressed it worked at all, really.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 18, 2024, 10:23:35 pm
content: Quote from: Ice-Tea on May 15, 2024, 05:22:28 pmI'm not directly involved, but I think we talk to them as little as possible these days. Maybe better to sic the finance people on them...John