Telstra to shut down 3G mobile network by 2024 (AU) - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 04:12:47 am
content: Australia's largest mobile carrier, Telstra, have announced that by June 2024, 3G will be no more. The shutdown of 3G already commenced in March this year with the 2100 MHz band being the first to go with the 850 MHz band next to be phases out.As it stands, only 0.3% of the population covered by Telstra's network does not have access to the 4G network (i.e.: 3G only coverage).I'm assuming that these bands will be re-used for LTE and 5G services.

author: OwO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 04:35:53 am
content: Pretty sure 3G has been shut down for many years here. I can only get either EDGE (2G) or LTE on my phone, and my older samsung 3G phone has only ever seen 2G connectivity here.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 04:49:08 am
content: Quote from: OwO on October 09, 2019, 04:35:53 am2G has been long gone in Australia since June 2018. Almost everyone uses 4G/LTE/5G nowadays, even in rural and remote areas. A lot of the old analog television spectrum was re-purposed for mobile networks.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 06:24:46 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 09, 2019, 04:12:47 amIt's no surprise to me that I'm amongst the 0.3%. I wonder how many of them also use a Windows phone.I thought 5G needed much higher frequencies.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 06:38:52 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 09, 2019, 06:24:46 amYour Windows phone is not capable of 4G at all? Or is it that your area is not covered by 4G?QuoteYes you're right. Australia is using 3.5-3.6 GHz with 26-28 GHz coming later. I'd say the spectrum will be used to upgrade LTE in a lot of areas. I know my nearest Telstra tower is being upgraded to include the 900 MHz band (with 700 MHz currently in operation on 4G).

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 07:19:18 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 09, 2019, 06:24:46 amAnother 3G user here. I'm not surprised that I'm in a laggard category (again!), but I am surprised that the figure is so low. Where did that number come from?I'm not a Windows phone user though.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 07:20:57 am
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 09, 2019, 06:38:52 amIt is 3G only. A pre-paid thing I got from Woolworths 3 or 4 years ago. I shall be sorry to replace it. For $29 it has given good service.

author: ozcar
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 07:45:07 am
content: I happen to have a current Australia Post catalogue lying here. The back page is full of phones, not one of which appear to support 5G, and two of them, Vodafone prepaids, are 3G only. With phones like that still for sale today, I'm even more surprised at that 0.3% figure.Maybe that number is for Telstra network only. But would the others be that different?

author: soldar
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 07:47:15 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on October 09, 2019, 06:24:46 amI use an iPhone 4 with 3G. For a while now I've been hearing about 3G closing down in Spain but never paid much attention. Now I have less than 30 days left before they shut it down.I have a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge which I understand supports 4G so I guess I have no other option but to change over. This phone needs new battery so I'll need to start there.What a pain!

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:09:07 am
content: One of the issues in Oz will be swapping out some of the remote Telemetry and Data that sits of the 3G network more than the phone users where it is a fairly simple consumer purchase to fix it.The thing it may do is open up Lora or similar type use and gateways but given the size of this rock still never going to be a one technology suits all.

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:10:48 am
content: By then all international roaming on to Telstra in Australia will have been moved to 4G/VoLTE (Voice) 5G will be for data.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:26:57 am
content: It's not yet another of those'buy a new phone NOW!or else your finally paid off Samsung or iPhone will melt in your hand..'scare jobs is it?fwiw > VERY old phone/sand windows phonesworking fine on 3Gor whatever ?G Telstra flogs down here =www.youtube.com/watch?v=txjqV6eKabs&feature=youtu.be&t=9

author: Rerouter
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:36:42 am
content: back in the 2G switch off, 4G serial data modems where stupidly expensive (~$500 each in volume)so now I am looking at almost 2000 remote monitoring systems that need to be updated from a mixture of internal 3G modems, and previously upgraded 3G serial modems.Still not as cheap as the 3G option was back then....

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:41:16 am
content: It may not be as much of an issue for Government or larger businesses that have that sort of gear on 3G but for individuals, small business and agricultural users needing to either hopefully have specialty gear upgraded or more likely need to replace it it will be an impost and a significant chunk of change.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2019, 08:45:50 am
content: Quote from: ozcar on October 09, 2019, 07:19:18 amSorry I misquoted (corrected original post) only 0.3% of the population has 3G-only coverage with Telstra. My mistake.Quote from: beanflying on October 09, 2019, 08:09:07 amI'm not sure that this will be as big of an issue as it was with the 2G shutdown. I would suggest most telemetry and devices such as lift alarms would have been replaced with 3G/4G compatible variants years ago. If they were so short-sighted and didn't think to future-proof their products then, oh well.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 05:06:24 am
content: Great, I have to scrap a perfectly usable phone.How many people are going to be impacted by this?EDIT: 700,000 customers impacted it seems:https://www.telstra.com.au/exchange/3gxt-3g-closure-sms#:~:text=If%20you're%20a%20Telstra,phone's%20on%2Dscreen%20dialing%20keypad!

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 05:15:26 am
content: Nice, a huge waste. Of course that's not just the phones, but also all the 3G infrastructure that's going to waste.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 05:42:57 am
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 09, 2024, 05:15:26 amI wonder if I can get a complete 3G transmitter hut for teardown like I did then CH7 analog TV shut down?

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 06:28:25 am
content: Will see what happens when they turn off 3G in Tasmania.They have been winding down the spectrum used for 3G for several yearsAnd it not like people haven't been told. Telstra have been playing an announcement to the users of 3G only devices or VoLTE capable but can't make emergency calls over VoLTEAffected devices are detected because the first 8 digits of the IMEI identify the TAChttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Allocation_CodeWhich is used to identify the model and revision.Some of affected device were bought on the grey market and those version were not released in Australia by the normal channels. As they don't support all the Freq ranges.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 07:18:35 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 05:42:57 amThat would be interesting.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 07:27:18 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 05:42:57 amThat would be amazing.Only 18 days to go:https://www.telstra.com.au/support/mobiles-devices/3g-closureMind you the infrastructure has probably long been replaced anyway, the coverage is only getting better, the shutdown won't make it worse for those with a reasonably modern handset.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 10:43:11 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 05:42:57 amTelstra replied:Quote

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 11:37:06 am
content: I doubt that is true. Sounds like a marketing wonk response.The hardware transceivers will be different between 3G and 5G.The antennas will likely be different.They will keep the backup generators, the antenna tower, and maybe some of the control hardware, but a lot will be replaced.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 03:46:43 pm
content: I doubt very much 3G hardware is able to be repurposed. Talking directly to the lead IoT co-coordinator for Ireland's biggest network he tells me that the networks can't wait to scrap 2G & 3G hardware and replace with LTE/5G. The 2G/3G hardware is EOL , Nokia and Eriksson are having a field day on servicing existing hardware.The only thing keeping 2G alive in UK/Ireland is that there's a load of public IoT still using so govt contracts dictate it stays. 3G is almost gone (maybe is gone), but it didn't cause much fuss as you can fall back to 2G for calls/sms.Also mast owners are in on the gravy train too, there are weird blackspots in NB-IoT and CATM coverage where a few mast owners are holding out for a better contract before allowing upgrades.

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 06:34:30 pm
content: I think here one provider say 2G until 2030, the other have no plans to close it, it is still used for IoT and where there is no other coverage

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 07:28:38 pm
content: I've got mobile phone problems at the moment thanks to the phone networks, VoLTE & Sony.Part of the problem is the phone, it's hardware is 4G VoLTE compatible, but crippled by noughts & ones, due to red tape between Sony & the networks over which phones can access the VoLTE service. At the time I had the choice of two, which were identical apart from screen size & RAM, I couldn't find a seller with the 'standard' screen version with higher RAM (sold out), so bought the 'premium' larger screen version with more RAM (lack of RAM has been the cause of EOL of my previous phones). Annoyingly the 'standard' version of that phone is accepted by the networks for 4G VoLTE.From what I've read it's possible to copy a file from the 'standard' version to the 'premium' version, to get it working, but this involves rooting & unknown source files and I'm not willing to do that.Of course 3G is gone in the UK AFAIK, I've ditched my previous network (three) because of this and gone with EE, I now can access 2G for calls, but the service is very crap at times (area dependant), 4G for texts & web access works fine. Why we can't get rid of all these shitty phone networks & nationalise it I don't know? 5G isn't a thing here, it's only available in larger towns & cities, can't see them investing in smaller towns & rural areas any time soon, the networks would of course be happy to sell me a 5G device, for a service I can't use.David

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 07:29:30 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 10:42:11 amLTE was a real botched up mess when it was launched, but I didn't realised that they still haven't sorted out VoLTE properly. I thought it just worked on anything bought in the last 4 or 5 years. What a mess.

author: factory
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 07:56:59 pm
content: Yes the device was bought approx 4 years ago, VoLTE has been around a lot longer than that. Don't want to buy a new one yet, it wasn't a cheap device at the time and they are getting silly priced these days.Things are going to get interestingifpeople can't access emergency services, they might not find out it doesn't work until they try to call.David

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 08:20:28 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 10:43:11 amI'm also curious (and a bit unconvinced too) about what exactly they can repurpose and how. That would be even more interesting than a teardown. If you can get to find more info about this, whether it's for real and then you'd explain how it is done exactly, or if it's just BS and then that would be a nice debunk.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2024, 08:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 09, 2024, 08:20:28 pmMaybe they thought Dave was looking for a whole cell site, when I assume he just wants the boxes of electronics. They may have some modern multi-mode stuff, which has replaced older 2G+3G only failed boxes, so they can reuse those. However, I assume most of their 3G boxes are useless now. They can reuse the plumbing. They may be able to reuse the antennae, although times have changed, and antennae have advanced. The fibre or microwave backhaul is probably shared, at least partly, with the 4G and 5G kit. If its pure SS7 stuff, its probably useless in a pure IP environment. Most of the other stuff they don't need to replace - power, battery sets, cooling - is likely to be shared by the site's 4G and 5G equipment.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2024, 02:08:13 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 10:43:11 amI'll reach out to some of my contacts, see if they can pull some strings. Otherwise you might want to reach out to cpstech.com.au. I know they are partnered with Telstra to roll out new equipment/cell sites.EDIT: A guy I know internally at Telstra is currently away on leave, but he said he'll have a chat to some people upon his return. Watch this space.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 11, 2024, 10:30:16 pm
content: Got an email from someone involved in thisQuote

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2024, 10:47:14 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 09, 2024, 08:20:28 pmThe answer says repurposing thespectrumas in frequencies. So the person did not understand the question at all.

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2024, 11:03:05 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 11, 2024, 10:30:16 pmThis is interesting as it suggests there will be some blocking in the network ahead of negotiating an emergency call, which had been prohibited in earlier cellular standards. The suggestion for an emergency number test/dummy is an excellent one, no-one would be confused about calling 112/000 vs 0118 999 88199 9119 7253

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2024, 02:57:32 am
content: Quote from: Someone on October 11, 2024, 11:03:05 pmThere is a procedure to make test calls to the actual 000/112 emergency numbers, generally used by technicians, but anyone can do them. It basically involves dialling the real emergency number and when the Telstra call taker answers the call, you announce that it is a test call and they can read back the CLI for you. This happens prior to being transferred to the relevant emergency service.There is standard phrasing which is recommended:https://commsalliance.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/75962/IGN020_2023.pdfIf the volume of test calls is more than 50, there is a different process that needs to be followed.It's also important that you don't simply call the number and hang-up. This leads to wasting the operator's time as it could be treated as an emergency with the call terminating under duress (or some other reason). You need to clearly state to the operator that it's a test call and don't deviate from the standard procedures.I suppose the reason they don't have a dedicated test number, is that it could cause confusion in a real emergency by people who might not have the same common sense as you or I do.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2024, 04:13:25 am
content: If they go to decimal G-standards that are incompatible it can make alot of money with little workthen eventually we can get a EU directive to have a replaceable modem in phones

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2024, 07:00:53 am
content: Unless the UE is doing a emergency attach and sends a urn:service:sos its a waste of time as you not proving anything by dialing a test numberWhich the UE does when you dial 000/999/112 or whatever is relevant to country you are making the call in. ( If its a VoLTE enabled service )In a IMS network these call do not use the Application Server, So the UE does not need to be registered to make an emergency call. (i.e. An emergency attach)The problem with all this. If the A party Radio network does notWILTcorrectly. You can't perform a emergency attach as the UE still thinks it has coverage from the original service provider

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 01:48:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 09, 2024, 05:42:57 amI don't want to get anyone fired by saying exactly where I saw it, but I did come across an entire Telstra 3G site in a rubbish dump at an Aboriginal community.Not taken back to their depot, not sent for e-waste or scrap metal recycling, just chucked in with the community's refuse.It was all there, even the equipment rack, as well as the antennas etc off the tower.If I hadn't been loaded to the gunwales with my own tools/parts/gear I'd have loaded it up to bring home.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 12:43:43 am
content: More info from James:Quote

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 04:20:51 am
content: Quote from: SmallCog on October 14, 2024, 01:48:50 amIf they couldn't defend their actions as being in the public interest then they ought to be exposed. Shifting the disposal cost burden onto a remote community or local municipality is just plain wrong. Not as bad as dumping rubbish (although this might be rubbish) or asbestos.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 04:28:32 am
content: How hard is it to set up an emergency test number? I'm assuming the SMS text test number is just a simple database lookup based on some phone data received.But what extra hardware/infrastructure would be needed to mimic the emergency call system? Again I assume you would need to trace the "route" the call took to ensure it didn't use 3G at all.

author: johnh
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 06:57:34 am
content: As I said earlyThe phone/UE needs to send a urn.service.sos to make an emergency call if its not registered on a volte network.Even when the device is registered it still sends a urn.service.sosThink in case of Optus/Vodafone where they don't have coverage and the device will say something like emergency calls onlyWhen you dial 112/999/911/ these are configured by carrier setting and the UE will a send a service.sosIf the device has not been designed and configured to send a service.sos you are out of luck when 3G is turned off and you have a device that can make normal VoLTE calls.Welcome to the world of premature standards. when VoLTE calling was defined before the emergency calling part was defined.So if you have device which the manufacturer no longer supports or they just doesn't care. You are out of luckYou can read a bit aboutherehttps://nickvsnetworking.com/tales-from-the-trenches-the-issue-with-emergency-calling-urns-in-ims-networks/and herehttps://realtimecommunication.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/this-is-an-emergency/and herehttps://www.gsma.com/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/NG.119-v1.1-1.pdf

author: Bryn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 08:33:56 pm
content: With just two days to go until the shutdown, let me share ofwhat will stop workingwhen this happens. This even includes medical devices like fall alarms and pacemakers, and Aussies living in the most remote parts will be the worst hit

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 08:40:20 pm
content: You're just resisting progress.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 10:50:09 pm
content: Incidentally, a colleague of mine has bought a car with a telematics module in it which is 3G connected... err... the UK is switching off 3G in 2025-26. Apparently, some functions will work on 2G mode, but there's no guarantee. This manufacturer was shipping 3G-only cars in 2023 and according to dealers, has no plan at all to support customers who will lose these functions. Truly the internet of shit, this stuff needs regulating as the private market has shown it is absolute crap at it.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 26, 2024, 11:11:40 pm
content: Quote from: tom66 on October 26, 2024, 10:50:09 pmA Mercedes? They seem to be the ones getting flack right now for only installing a 3G modem in some quite recent cars sold in the UK. If they were shipping 3G only modems in 2023 how are they going to fulfil their warranty commitments?

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 12:19:55 am
content: Quote from: coppice on October 26, 2024, 11:11:40 pmStellantis group, a Peugeot if I recall correctly, though the same issue impacts most of their models.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 01:41:45 am
content: Quote from: Bryn on October 26, 2024, 08:33:56 pmWhilst there will be some devices that will stop working, people and organisations have had ample and repeated notice. Whatever devices remain, most probably have been forgotten about. I think the real impact will be minimal. As for those living in remote parts, I tend to disagree. Old mate on the tractor already lives outside the coverage area and whatever signal he does get is opportunistic. There are technologies available which will allow him to extend his own coverage, whether it be through the use of a mobile repeater (which does not need a licence to operate) or calling over WiFi. Worst case, he could use a satellite phone for emergencies. Even the newer iPhones allow messaging via satellite to emergency services. Just sounds like whinging for the sake of not wanting to change.We shouldn't be hanging onto old and obsolete technology just to keep a few happy.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 09:36:04 am
content: I had two personal calls from Exetel telling me my (4G) home phone is going to stop working tomorrow.So apparently they are able to tell exactly which and how many phones on their network are going to stop working.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 05:52:12 pm
content: Quote from: Halcyon on October 27, 2024, 01:41:45 amThere are a lot of people with an embedded modem somewhere in their systems who have no idea how it works, and that they need to take action. Cars are a good example. People subscribed to the service from Mercedes in the UK seem to have found things suddenly stopped working, which is bad on the part of Mercedes, who should have taken action. However, the actual service users, who is now inconvenienced, had no way to know this would happen. I mean, if you bought a car in the last 10 years, surely its going to have an LT modem, right?

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2024, 10:04:23 pm
content: Quote from: coppice on October 27, 2024, 05:52:12 pmI think the issue is mostly with Mercedes but a little onus should be on the customer. Notwithstanding that most consumers probably wouldn't think to even ask the question, but to me, it's not really that different to making sure your consumer electronics support the 5 GHz WiFi band. But, it's pretty piss-poor that Mercedes is still using 20+ year old technology in their new vehicles. I'd suggest those buying a new Mercedes would expect better from a premium manufacturer and could even lead to claims under consumer law. Watch this space I suppose.I drive a car that's less than 5 years old, but I don't know if it has a modem in it. If it does, it doesn't impact any of the user's functions as internet access comes from my phone. I really don't care if it's preventing the manufacturer from getting telemetry from my vehicle.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 02, 2024, 10:26:31 pm
content: I have a Volvo. I just noticed a warning notice for these about the loss of 3G and 2G services in some territories. The cars have an LTE modem, but like most LTE hardware more than 3 or 4 years old it doesn't properly support VoLTE. Their On Call service uses voice calls to report emergencies, which won't work, so that will be partially crippled. They also say a software update may be needed to make the modem work at all, but don't explain why. The LTE part should still provide internet services, like maps, Spotify and so on.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 19, 2025, 12:54:27 am
content: There is an awesome new website with a database of impacted phones, and all the news and government policy links etc.https://isthisphoneblocked.net.au/