USB C Port - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 27, 2021, 02:48:09 pm
content: Hello All,I have a new design my company is working on with a vertically mounted USB C port and we are having tons of connectivity issues. The port doesn't maintain good connection when the cable is gently wiggled. We have tested a few different brand of ports and cables but none seem to fit very tightly.Is this characteristic of USB-C ports? Has anyone had any experience with this? Can anyone recommend a good product?Thanks in advance!

author: bootloader9800
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 28, 2021, 11:56:28 pm
content: Is mechanically retaining the USB C port an option? Ports usually fit snugly.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 29, 2021, 12:17:18 am
content: - What is the part number?- Have you looked inside the port with a microscope to ensure pins are clean of any possible flux residue?

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 30, 2021, 10:00:23 pm
content: USB has a stirring and noise of the contacts, the noise level depends on the quality and cleanliness of the connector.

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 03:45:17 pm
content: First of all, Thank You guys for responding. Sorry, I haven't checked this in a few days.Quote from: bootloader9800 on January 28, 2021, 11:56:28 pmI'm not exactly sure what you are asking here? The usb ports we are testing have surface mount connections and through hole ground pins so the ports fit pretty rigidly. We have a hard plastic shell around the port to provide extra support. The issue I am seeing is where the cable plugs into the port, the cable itself, not the port, wiggles quite a bit. In my application, there is not a good way to support the cable if that is what you are asking.Quote from: thm_w on January 29, 2021, 12:17:18 amWe have tried a JAE PN: DX07S024WJ3R400 and Molex PN: 2047110001 and a handful of cables of different brands.The ports were checked with a microscope and are clean on the inside. The cables seem to fully insert.Quote from: S. Petrukhin on January 30, 2021, 10:00:23 pmThis is a good point. I have listed a couple of the part numbers we have tested above. They seem to be decent quality connectors. We have used many Molex connectors on other projects which have had no issues and our board house has used quite a few JAE components with no issues. We have verified that the cables and connectors are clean.With USB C quickly becoming "THE" port of the future, I would expect it to be much more robust. I understand that, with moving, noise will be generated but I wouldn't expect it to completely drop the connection for long periods of time. I am seeing where the port loses connection then one must wiggle it again to remake the connection.

author: Pack34
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:08:57 pm
content: You used plated through-hole for the shield, right? Does this happen on all your prototypes? Did you do a quick in-house assembly or turn-key? Maybe the temperature profile was too high and softened the thermopastic?

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:13:07 pm
content: Yes, shields are plated through holes. Yes it does happen with all of them. We used a professional board house to layout and build these so they were soldering using proper oven and wave soldering machine. Temperature profile, not sure what they used but will check on that.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:42:03 pm
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 01, 2021, 03:45:17 pmAs far as I understand, you have not had any problems before? And now it's happening, and with different cables - no reason to think about cable damage or connector soldering damage?I only tried using USB-C once, I saw noise in it, but I didn't see a break that needs to be fixed by stirring. And it was a noname cheap Chinese connector and the same Chinese wire. Maybe the problem is in the vertical position?

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:48:58 pm
content: This is a new device so we are doing our initial testing. Our products have never had a USB C type connector before so this is new territory for me. My prototype boards are brand new and have never worked properly.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 04:57:11 pm
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 01, 2021, 04:48:58 pmYou know, I just picked up the phone, started transmitting a large file, and moved the plug of the wire in different directions. I even turned the phone upside down, socket up and also moved the wire - I did not notice the loss of transmission or its slowing down.What current are you trying to transmit through the connector? Isn't there some danger in this?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 05:01:36 pm
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 01, 2021, 03:45:17 pmThey mean not only relying on the connector component for mechanical stability of the plug. Look at how most commercial USB-C products implement USB-C ports: there's a USB-C socket-shaped hole in the housing, fitting the plug very precisely, with the USB-C socketbehindthe housing, not protruding through it. Look at how Apple implements USB-C for a great example of this.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 06:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 01, 2021, 05:01:36 pmI guess you wouldn't say that Sony makes bad phones? In my phone, the connector is exactly on the edge of the case, there is no support for the plug from the case.Maybe you're talking about the metal outer ring of the connector? The body device hole not allow it to deform?

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 08:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 01, 2021, 06:08:31 pmStop trolling, please.I didn't say that Sony makes bad phones, or that they didn't solve the issue. (I'm sure Sony has handled it well, no matter how they did it.)The point is that a ton of standard USB-C connectors seem designed with the expectation that the device housing will be a positioning guide for the plug.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 01, 2021, 09:58:44 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on February 01, 2021, 08:50:30 pmThis is not trolling. I gave you an example where device housing is not a positioning guide for the plug. The edge of the connector exactly matches the edge of the housing and the housing does not touch the plug.Based on your description, I assumed that the hole in the housing reinforces the metal housing of the connector, and without this, the connector itself cannot hold the wire well enough. So it may well be. The material of the connector housing is very thin.

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 01:10:43 am
content: Thanks for the ideas guys. I have been looking at every C port I can lay my hands on and I am seeing mixed design styles. Some that do utilize the plastic housing to guide/support the cable and some that directly expose the metal jack. I do have to admit that the ones who have the added plastic support do have a tighter connection and do seem more robust.I still have to wonder why these companies would design a port that requires a support structure around it in order to properly function without specifically laying out those design guidelines in their documentation.

author: S. Petrukhin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 01:56:06 am
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 02, 2021, 01:10:43 amIf it possible, wrap 20-30 turns of regular sewing thread around the connector body to see if the bandage will help fix the connector so that it does not lose contact. This is interesting - is the connector housing really not able to withstand mechanical stress.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 04:37:52 am
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 01, 2021, 03:45:17 pmRemember that "the future" is planned obolescence, since that's what serves corporate interests the best --- keep selling cheap shit that breaks easily while telling everyone it's better than what came before.I've handled laptops barely a month old with USB-C charging, and bumping the cable is enough to make it (very) briefly switch over to battery and then back. Of course the protocol has built-in retries at various layers, so things like file transfers won't be affected a great deal, but it's still horribly flimsy.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 10:39:24 am
content: Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 01, 2021, 09:58:44 pmAll I said is that most commercial products use the USB-C style where the device housing is a plug guide. I didn’t say that ones that don’t use the housing as a plug guide don’t exist, nor did I say that that’s “bad”. And my wording (“most”) clearly implies that I know there’s a remainder that doesn’t work that way, so no need to show such a counterexample. In other words, just being argumentative and/or know-it-all, hence why I asked you to stop trolling. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions.Quote from: S. Petrukhin on February 01, 2021, 09:58:44 pmI’m sure there are sockets designed to require such circumferential support, and ones that don’t. And of course, since so many big manufacturers use custom-made connectors, we don’t have access to a lot of the designs. :/

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 10:47:51 am
content: Quote from: thedrummer2016 on February 02, 2021, 01:10:43 amThe scourge of shitty documentation.There may be design guides separate from the datasheets that explain this stuff. Or it’s hidden in the datasheets as a tiny, yet critical, footnote.And of course, as I said above, big manufacturers use custom connectors anyway. I’m strongly suspect that computer and phone manufacturers used the connector-behind-the-housing style (originally with USB type A and micro-B sockets) before they became available as standard parts. I think the device manufacturers wanted them both for aesthetic reasons, but also to protect against board damage, since the housing is much better equipped to handle the forces of abuse than the solder joints.

author: thedrummer2016
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 02, 2021, 02:56:22 pm
content: These are all good points. I think we are going to explore designing a mechanical shroud to help support the connection.

author: mon2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 03, 2021, 04:19:30 pm
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