Keysight 33512B - "Memory very low" - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 06:15:46 pm
content: Hi,I just got this 33512B arb generator and it's been giving me problems since day one. It does work as expected, and the internal sync button is really what I was after, but after a couple of hours of use it will throw the "Program memory low" error. No way to click OK of course, just reboot the thing. Doesn't respond to key presses at all. Unplug.If I google the exact wording I get a MS support page saying that I need to close one of more programs for Windows CE to continue to operate. Great.Thoughts? Wasn't expecting this from Keysight.../K

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 06:47:41 pm
content: Quote from: kazam on February 27, 2016, 06:15:46 pmSounds like either a firmware problem (corruption) or a defect. Have you tried (re-)flashing the latest firmware?QuoteWell, any complex device can fail, and it seems yours might have. That's what the warranty/support is for.

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2016, 09:31:16 pm
content: Yes, I reflashed it to the latest version. Maybe I should downgrade instead?I guess I'll call the rep on Monday. As it works I find it hard it hard to believe that it's a corrupted firmware or hardware problem. Anything is possible I suppose.As there doesn't seem to be any reports of units failing maybe it is just mine. It's brand new./K

author: TheSteve
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 12:37:27 am
content: Can't help but wonder if a hardware problem is causing less memory to be reported then it should have. I'd try downgrading one rev, if that doesn't solve it then call Keysight.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 12:51:42 am
content: HiHave you "upgraded" the Windows CE on the generator?In any case, if it's a new gizmo, call the rep on Monday.Bob

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 09:52:24 am
content: I have a 33512B and a 33522B.The 33512B had to be fixed during warranty and was just exchanged by Keysight.The 33522B never had a problem.May be it is a hardware problem.It would be interesting to know, what Keysight has to say.

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 12:18:19 pm
content: No, that's not possible. The only reason I suspect it's Windows CE is because of that error message. Otherwise it looks like any other instrument with an LCD. There's no access to the underlying OS from the unit itself.I'll just have it replaced.Quote from: uncle_bob on February 28, 2016, 12:51:42 am

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 01:21:41 pm
content: Quote from: kazam on February 27, 2016, 09:31:16 pmYou can try, but not sure that will help as this is unlikely to be a firmware problem (at least I've not encountered it, and aside from my own 33522B we have a lot of 3352xB at work).QuoteIt's probably just a hardware defect. Unfortunately these things occasionally happen, but I'm sure Keysight will sort this out swiftly, as they normally do.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 01:32:02 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on February 28, 2016, 12:51:42 amThat is not possible. Windows CE is an embedded OS that has very little in common with your average desktop/server Windows. Like other similar embedded OSes, it has no user controls, a desktop or a command line. The only user facing interface is the actual application (i.e. the AWG app on the 33512B, the scope app on the DSOX Series of scopes and so on). WinCE installations can also not be upgraded in a similar fashion as desktop/server Windows, as the whole CE image that ends up in the device's flash ROM has to be created within Visual Studio.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 01:41:04 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 28, 2016, 01:21:41 pmI second that. I got a brand new piece of Keysight gear with a flickering display recently and it got replaced within a few days.edit: typo

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 01:42:30 pm
content: Just a pic of the front panel. I have no doubt Keysight will sort this out.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 01:52:30 pm
content: Most modern test gear with a SBC at its heart carries out a memory test at boot. Surprised a memory fault was not identified at first power on. My first thought was a classic 'memory leak' in the programming, but such would have been present on all units with that revision of software.As others have said, contact the rep and get them to sort you out with a new unit. Reflashing firmware carries risk, especially on an OS that is claiming memory issues. If you brick it, the OEM could claim an owner induced fault and not cover it under warranty.Fraser

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 02:21:53 pm
content: Exactly my thoughts and why I am hesitant to think this is a HW issue.Also, the unit had similar problems when it first arrived with FW 3.03 (if I recall the version correctly).I then flashed to 3.05 which is the latest available and all went well. Problem persists though. Just leave it on and after a few hours it will die.I'll give them a call and update this thread. We didn't solve it but now there's a reference to this problem on the interwebz for future reference./KQuote from: Fraser on February 28, 2016, 01:52:30 pm

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 02:50:22 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 28, 2016, 01:32:02 pmOf course it has them, just hidden. Very often all you need is a proper keyboard recognized to access them.

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 04:00:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fraser on February 28, 2016, 01:52:30 pmNo, not really. This isn't Asus or any other consumer brand which regularly uses wrong gone flashes as a reason to withold warranty.Even if another flash attempt would render the unit inoperable, it's still fully covered by warranty.Quote from: wraper on February 28, 2016, 02:50:22 pmNo, it hasn't. in Windows CE, all UI controls are *optional* (like a desktop environment) that a developer can add or leave out as he pleases. And I doubt that Agilent (who designed the 33500B Series) has added them in for a memory-constrained device with a simple low res LCD and a few buttons like this generator.If you can access them on other gear then that means they have been explicitly added to the image for some reason.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 05:11:31 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 28, 2016, 01:32:02 pmHiIf you have the right gear, you can most certainly re-flash / hack / improve / upgrade Windows CE. On some devices the hooks are there to make it pretty easy. Been there / done that on a number of devices over the years. If you do an fiddle with the OS that was not "factory approved", an out of memory error is not at all unusual.Bob

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 06:38:44 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on February 28, 2016, 05:11:31 pmYes, if you have the right gear, i.e. desktop PC with a Visual Studio Professional or higher license, and a license for Windows CE, and you know what you're doing then yes, you can do pretty much do anything. Just getting the Win CE license as an individual will be a challenge as it's not exactly sold in your average Bestbuy.Note that Win CE is not updated like desktop/server Windows, i.e. with a set of small updates. Updating Win CE requires creating a completely new software image. This usually also includes updating hardware drivers and/or the core application.The other thing is that lots of modern Keysight gear uses signed firmware images which prevents flashing of anything that's not genuine Keysight. I haven't checked the 33500B Series but I'd assume it uses similar protection.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 06:52:40 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 28, 2016, 06:38:44 pmHiI have no direct experience with CE on this device so I have no idea how easy or hard it is on this specific item. In some cases gear updates come with include Win CE updates as well. If they are in two packages (Win and application) it's conceivable you could do one without doing the other. I also have not researched the availability of "improved" images for this device. On some stuff it's as easy as finding an "improved" version in a dark corner of the internet and doing a *very* basic update process . Thus my very basic question to the OP about the OS upgrade.Bob

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 07:11:38 pm
content: Yeah, so this unit is for work. Not going to fiddle with some unofficial firmware image.Of course you can do almost anything if you have the right tools but for this particualr unit Keysight only delivers full firmware images that update the whole unit. Whether or not that includes OS specific files is anyones guess.Anyway, I'll keep you posted.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 08:25:48 pm
content: Quote from: kazam on February 28, 2016, 07:11:38 pmHiGiven the enormous range of people and issues that show up, it's best to ask rather than assume ....If they are updating the whole unit at once (as they should), the sync issue between the OS and app is a lot less likely. If you are only working with their updates, that pretty much rules it out in this case.Bob

author: sarepairman2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 09:26:15 pm
content: are you trying to date hot russians with your function generator?

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2016, 10:08:30 pm
content: Quote from: sarepairman2 on February 28, 2016, 09:26:15 pmHiActually that's not very far off. By far the most common thing I see people doing is trying to enable email or web in CE. Both are an utter and total disaster on a little device.Bob

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 03:28:54 am
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on February 28, 2016, 10:08:30 pmI have to join in with a horror story here. A cadet who plays Solitaire on a TEK TLA715...

author: kazam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 12:07:18 pm
content: Unit will be sent back and replaced with a 33612B 80MHz, Dual ouput.That settles that!And no, no Tinder on this device.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 01:13:39 pm
content: Good result

author: Wuerstchenhund
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 01:21:23 pm
content: Quote from: uncle_bob on February 28, 2016, 08:25:48 pmNot sure what you're saying, as you can't even update only parts of the image of a common Windows CE device. There's always just a single update for a Windows CE device.I get the very strong impression you don't really know what Windows CE actually is (you also can't just run normal Windows programs on it), and probably confuse it with Windows Embedded which is pretty much just a cut-down version of desktop Windows (and which can be updated similar to desktop Windows, at least to some extend).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_CEshould give you a start.The idea that someone updates Windows CE on a device like the Keysight 33500B is ludicrous. It simply doesn't work the way you seem to believe it does.Quote from: TAMHAN on February 29, 2016, 03:28:54 am...which runs a copy of desktop Windows, not Windows CE.But yes, I also played Solitaire and even DOOM on some scopes and spectrum analyzers

author: TAMHAN
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 29, 2016, 03:30:37 pm
content: Quote from: Wuerstchenhund on February 29, 2016, 01:21:23 pmI don't want to derail the thread...but she had a workstation standing next. WITH Solitaire installed...to protect the TEK's screen and lifetime.