Banana plug... and big wires - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 08:40:50 pm
content: Anyone here have a suggestion for 8 AWG wires banana plug connector ?I tried the Keystone 6080 6081, but it is not fitting a Gauge 8 even if the wire diameter says it does...Isulation diam 6mmCore ~4mm diam (8AWG)The total current is not the issue here, the length of the wire is.

author: RandallMcRee
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 08:48:19 pm
content: Audiophilia ridiculosisis your friend in this case.Check out:https://www.parts-express.com/search?keywords=banana%20plug%208%20gauge&order=relevance:descAlso on ebay (but parts-express is the mouser equivalent for diyaudio, sort of).Randall

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 11:19:54 pm
content: this doesn't make sense to me. First off most jacks have a limit of between 15 and 20 amps with some going to 30 so current isn't the issue. If you are concerned about voltage drop I'm not sure why you would be using banana plugs in the first place. Then there is the simple reality of mechanical retention.Mechanical retention is the big problem here, how do you keep the cable from pulling out the plugs? You will have everything working against you including the cable weight and stiffness. In a nut shell banana jacks and plugs really are not designed for such usage in my opinion. Instead I'd look for an industrial pin and socket connector with positive retention.More usage information might help.Quote from: tchiwam on May 04, 2021, 08:40:50 pm

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2021, 11:27:00 pm
content: Because the DUT has babana sockets, and I use Silicon AWG8 ultraflex.... Doesn't need to make sense, but it beats having 2 or 3 adapters to get the thing going...

author: Someone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 12:24:48 am
content: Drilling out the wire termination hole isn't an option? Pomona 5934 might just do it.Otherwise the go-to for this has been to use screw mountings and solder heavy wire direct to the banana plug (dress with heat shrink to taste), Keystone 6072 or 652.

author: Alex Eisenhut
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 01:25:04 am
content: The RC world has a nice selection of high-current wiring and connectors.https://hobbyking.com/en_us/catalogsearch/result/?q=bananaAnd this tool is very useful for solderinghttps://hobbyking.com/en_us/phenolic-soldering-jig-for-bullet-connectors.html?queryID=&objectID=19183&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products

author: threephase
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2021, 03:49:45 pm
content: If you really get stuck you could try the 4mm banana plugs with a screw thread and use a ring terminal to attach to them. Something like this from Staubli;https://www.newark.com/staubli/22-1053/connector-plug-50a-panel-mount/dp/40AH1736?ost=staubli+22.1053

author: peepsalot
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 12:07:36 am
content: Speaking of the RC world, I would imagine these could handle current quite well.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BFV4HDQSince the end is just open for soldering, i don't think you would have any trouble attaching 8ga wires.Being 4mm they will fit into standard banana jack, and as "bullet" connectors they are a lot more solid than most banana with their thin sheet metal spinny cage contact (no idea if there's a specific term for this style).

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2021, 01:05:14 am
content: Quote from: tchiwam on May 04, 2021, 11:27:00 pmWell honestly, 8AWG is an insanely inconvenient size to use as test lead wire. And of course, silicone insulation is generally thicker than other materials. Why make your life more difficult than it needs to be?Quote from: peepsalot on May 06, 2021, 12:07:36 amWhen manufactured in high quality (e.g. Stäubli), that style of banana plug is arguably the verybestkind. Just don't buy junk versions of them.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 07, 2021, 08:32:13 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on May 04, 2021, 11:19:54 pmLack of positive retention is is desirable where it is better to disconnect rather than risk damage.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2021, 04:00:58 am
content: As long as your setup doesn't leave live plugs flapping in the breeze I would agree.As for the posters problem, I don't see a good banana plug solution here. I'd seriously would consider retrofitting binding posts to the instrument if that is even possible. Then you could use old fashion fork terminals which can be had for 8 gauge wire. Even then you would need to find a fork terminal for the combination of a 10-32 or so binding post and 8awg wire.I'm thinking the combo binding post / banana jack, type which might keep functionality of the instrument the same.Quote from: David Hess on May 07, 2021, 08:32:13 pm

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 12:33:09 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on May 08, 2021, 04:00:58 amI very much prefer the combination binding posts because bare wires can be directly and securely attached. Unfortunately they violate modern safety standards requiring workarounds which are even less safe.I hate shrouded banana jacks and plugs except for handheld instruments.

author: wizard69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2021, 11:25:25 pm
content: Quote from: David Hess on May 09, 2021, 12:33:09 pmI've kinda learned to love shrouded banana plugs and jacks. That is likely due to working it the industrial world for so long. They can be a pain for low voltage work, with an array of instruments. We are now required to wear safety rated gloves when working on "high voltage" which according to the safety department amounts to anything above 24 VDC. This can lead to its own safety problems actually handling a meter (or anything for that matter) and also has lead me to looking at test leads differently. You really need to consider how you will pick up and grip the leads (the feel).It would be nice if we had a larger selection of binding posts that take shrouded banana plugs. Then you could use connection components that make sense for what you are doing.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2021, 04:26:27 am
content: Quote from: wizard69 on May 09, 2021, 11:25:25 pmWhat really pisses me off is that every instrument I have with shrouded banana jacks seems to accept a different incompatible shrouded banana plug. So I end up cutting the leads and adding an Anderson Power Pole connector in the middle to make the probe ends interchangeable.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 10, 2021, 05:31:23 pm
content: Quote from: wizard69 on May 09, 2021, 11:25:25 pmIf you’re up for nodding your own instruments, I did discover one source: E-Z Hook. See:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/binding-posts-that-accept-shrouded-4mm-plugs/msg3497136/#msg3497136Quote from: David Hess on May 10, 2021, 04:26:27 amWhat equipment is it?!? I’ve literally never encountered an instrument (other than cheapie Chinese multimeters) with safety jacks that doesn’t accept every shrouded banana I could throw at it.The only area I’ve encountered compatibility issues is with test lead attachments — Fluke and Keysight attachments are incompatible in one combination (I forget which way). The attachment ended up on the cable a bit too snugly!

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 12:51:20 am
content: Quote from: tooki on May 10, 2021, 05:31:23 pmI have two different Beckman multimeters, a Tektronix multimeter, and an HP multimeter and that makes four different incompatible shrouded connectors.

author: tchiwam
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 02:55:49 am
content: For all the reasonable wire size I went for retractable shrouds.When possible stack-able and not the 90deg stack thank you.Simple forks would be great but the source I want to test can't mate with those, and I amnotmodifying that side. The gauge 10 and 12 got a bit too hot for comfort when I went in the 20A to 30A range.Gauge 8 with sense wires is the solution. Ultraflex rated 200C.That way the LOAD can stay where it is, and I can have the unit opened on my bench. Now waiting for the audio 4mm banana thing. I ordered a few types, one is stack-able and the other is having the wire in the back... We will see...I will FLIR each connectors under load and make sure they are not getting hot either....

author: DEV001
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 02:57:11 am
content: I found some examples of 8 gauge $peaker cable going into a 4mm banana style plug. The company that sells the cables said they had to add support to the connector to reinforce it due to the weight of the cable.If you click on the bottom image (6th image down) in the amazon listing they mention why they had to modify the connector.https://www.amazon.com/Audioblast-Ultra-Flexible-Audiophile-Speaker-HQ-SPK-AP2HD-8AWG/dp/B07WQCV3M9From the Listing:The brand of connector we used for this professional cable assembly: Eminence 24k, 3 micron Dual Gold Plated 4mm (standard diameter) Audiophile-Grade Banana Connectors custom made for superior abrasion & corrosion resistance. Each connector weighs 10g with a fully insulated body to prevent accidental shorting.Interesting terminology used in the top review...(Not even burned in, treble was more airy, mid-range jump forward, depth of stage, etc...)Previously I was using Audio Blaster 12ga cable and enjoyed remarkable sonic improvements in the mid-range, tighter bass and an open & airy treble. I rated the 12ga 5-stars for performance to price, a true improvement at a sensible price.1yr later, I needed to increase length of cable to accommodate the new entertainment cabinet. Increased length of cable increases resistance, so I ordered a larger diameter cable (8 ga AWG).I was blow away by the improvement in sound quality, the mid-range jump forward, treble was even more airy & open giving improved imagining/depth of stage with the bass even tighter, less restrained and they aren’t “burned-in” yet.If you’re looking to upgrade your audio system speaker cable, looking to improve your sound, buy the 8-gauge cable. You will not he disappointed

author: 1audio
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 03:06:43 am
content: These are really close to banana connectors (depending on which version) and rated for really high currents:https://www.specialtyproducttechnologies.com/superiorelectric/products/electrical-connectors/supercon-electrical-connectorsI have used them on projects and they work much better that typical audio stuff. Lots of solid gold plated brass.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 09:37:06 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on May 11, 2021, 12:51:20 amGiven that Beckman meters haven’t been made for years, Tek has very little (also having quit the handheld meter market years ago), and HP test gear changed brand ages ago, am I correct to surmise it’s all older test gear? It seems like the shrouded plugs have become more standardized in recent years.

author: beanflying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 10:11:33 am
content: Below is my 10AWG set I made some years ago. The connectors were an M4 threaded end and I soldered them with some High Silver content solder. As I either measure or run 4W power supplies at higher currents I couldn't see the point to going heavier.Now for some reality for the speculators without any high current usage of 4mm Bullets. They are fine to about 30A but they are starting to fall off the edge at that but I have seen them used to 80A in R/C performance aircraft and have used them to 50+ in my own gear. The actual testing we did is now a few decades old and lost in time I suspect.We did however get out of them and went to the T-style Deans connectors (not the Trash clones) which were actually fairly good at 80-100A. These days we are running 6mm bullets in the higher power systems as we push well over 100A and toward 200A.As to a nice looking shrouded one I think you will find 30A is OTT.

author: David Hess
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 11, 2021, 05:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on May 11, 2021, 09:37:06 amBut if I acquired a newer meter, I would expect it to also be incompatible with all of my existing meters.And Pomona sells test leads which are identical except for the shrouded banana jacks, suggesting that there is still no uniformity.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 13, 2021, 01:24:34 am
content: Quote from: David Hess on May 11, 2021, 05:28:24 pmWell, they sell unsheathed and retractable sheath versions in addition to regular sheathed. Owners of old gear still need new probes from time to time. Doesn’t say anything about modern standardization.