Mr. Fusion - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ElectricGuy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 02:36:44 am
content: Mr fusion from Back to the future is on Kickstarter.... i kind of Mr fusion....https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1889855568/food-waste-to-energy-converter?ref=categoryhttps://youtu.be/3HYoq6vIVXc

author: AF6LJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 02:45:20 am
content: You know what they say "Fusion is just around the corner" They have been saying that for over sixty years now.

author: daqq
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 06:06:25 am
content: QuoteNow Lockheed Martin is saying it as well:http://www.eweek.com/news/lockheed-martin-claims-sustainable-fusion-is-within-its-grasp.htmlhttp://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/products/compact-fusion.html

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 06:32:29 am
content: I think it's pretty much accepted that we could do break even fusion now if enough money was available to build a big enough reactor.And there are other approaches which the math says will work at a less ridiculous scale if all the red tape required for new designed can be approved as well as funding.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 06:42:02 am
content: Why make a bogus comparison between this kickstarter and Mr Fusion? They aren't claiming any amazing technology. They are just doing what any large sewerage treatment works does today. The problem with this is costs.A large sewerage treatment works digests both solid and dissolved waste in the incoming water. They have to do this to clean the water, and it produces quite a lot of methane. This is a useful fuel, and they can't simply dump it into the atmosphere. Most large works collect the methane, and use it for electrical generation. The generated power then runs the pumps and other facilities in the works. The snag is, it doesn't provide 100% of the energy needed to run the works in most cases. Some energy still needs to be drawn from the grid. There certainly isn't a useful surplus.In a small scale digester like the HORSE (or any septic tank for a home off the sewerage grid) you avoid a lot of the energy usage aspects of a sewerage works. For example, they aren't pumping water for 10's of kilometres from its point of use to the works. This should give them a surplus of energy. The snag is, its not that big a surplus. Unless they can make the system for peanuts, and there is near zero cost land on which to place it, its going to be a rather large investment per kWh produced.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 07:46:06 am
content: Quote from: coppice on September 21, 2015, 06:42:02 amit works here in Manchester, around 10,000 homes worth of methane produced electricity in addition to running the plantwe have three sites that have been running for several years with another two on the way

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 07:58:39 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on September 21, 2015, 07:46:06 amThose plants around Manchester supply the methane to thousands of homes INSTEAD of generating electricity with it. Their novelty is that they have been able to clean up the gas, and reduce its odour to reasonable levels, at a reasonable cost. This is said to be a more efficient use of the gas than electricity generation, and it probably is. However, the pumping has to be done by power from the grid, so the ability to supply the gas needs of thousands of homes is less impressive than it appears at first sight.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:06:35 am
content: My next door neighbour is a farm and they have are installing a biogas generator to run on chicken and cow manure along with crop waste. The gas is going to be injected into the national gas grid. Don't know how much gas is to be produced but they have just laid a ten inch gas main for it across the road.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:12:17 am
content: Quote from: coppice on September 21, 2015, 07:58:39 amyour mistaken, they generate electricity to feed back into the grid, our homes dont run on methane!Quote

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:28:51 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on September 21, 2015, 08:12:17 amReading further it appears I was mistaken. It looks like the gas to homes systems I had previously read about have yet to go into service. 5MW might sound impressive, but a lot more power than that is used to pump water in most places. It doesn't take a big change in geography to wipe such a surplus, and put the plant in deficit. In the 60s, the sewerage works around London used to have modest surpluses of power. By the early 80s they had surpluses some of the time, but needed to draw from the grid most of the time.I found some figures for North America which say their sewage works generate an average of around 113% of the electricity needed to run the works, so there does appear to be a modest surplus on average. Remember that this is on average, though. It will vary with the location and the season - heavy rainfall == more power needed while less gas is generated.

author: dexters_lab
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:50:04 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on September 21, 2015, 08:06:35 aminteresting, i didn't know you could feed in biogas... but i should have thought more about it and realised it's mostly methane anyway!

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 08:57:30 am
content: Quote from: dexters_lab on September 21, 2015, 08:50:04 amIn most cases you can't feed in biogas into a grid, for the reason I said the projects in Manchester are novel - it stinks so badly nobody will accept it. The smelly stuff doesn't break down sufficiently in the burning process. It might be OK when used for home heating, where all fumes are directly extracted to the outside environment. If used for a gas hob it stinks up the kitchen.If biogas represents a tiny fraction of the total gas in the system, the smell would be heavily diluted. On the other hand, if its that small a part of the total it really wouldn't be helping very much.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 11:25:13 am
content: Methane itself is almost smelless.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 12:18:27 pm
content: My town collect all food waste for biogas production. That kickstarter looks like it's for a compact biogas unit. It's not rocket science, looks plausible to me.

author: apis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 21, 2015, 12:27:10 pm
content: Quote from: daqq on September 21, 2015, 06:06:25 amThe most interesting fusion energy project (that aren't tokamaks) that I've seen is thePolywell, I wonder if it's something like that they are working on. It's a bit strange to see this kind of news from a company like Lockheed Martin though. If they don't deliver it is going to hurt their reputation.