how hard is employeed engineering work? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:45:45 am
content: So I realize that I will probably get alot of bullshit answers in this thread (like when you ask some one how much they studied for a class or how hard they worked on something...)but, for the people here who have testicles, how hard is electrical engineering work?Do you find your self working more then 40 hours a week at your job?Do you find yourself working a full eight hours?how hard is it for your to get days off? Can you come to work late?I ask this because I have a friend who works on his car and builds personal lawn tractor equipment at his job, obviously I don't want to work if I don't have to. You only live once after all.Before any cogs get mad I would like to remind you your place in life (especially if you work in a big company) with a little picture:my mother has worked for a big company most of her life and she figured out how to get away with sleeping, not that the bosses really do anything different, it is kind of a huge scam.. The way she puts it if you don't fuck the company then they fuck you.I hope that maybe, since I actually enjoy electronics work, I will be able to enjoy working, but based on what people tell me it won't be the case.I have listened to alumni from my university speak about their jobs, the ones involved in management seem to be proud of being shyster bastards who don't know whats going on, (this guy is in charge of a 15 million dollar part of a capacitor company, has a EE degree, does not know what phase shift is).army engineer guy said its easy to take two hour lunches on his 8 hour shift.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 09:03:32 am
content: It's a 9-5 job like any other. You turn up, work your hours, and go home. Only fools and ladder climbing arse kissers work extra hours for no pay.Sometimes you work more, sometimes you work less, it's up to you to balance it out.Most engineering jobs are professional jobs, which means no one generally cares (within reason) what time you arrive and leave. You should be treated like a professional, not a waitress at the local diner earning minimum wage. As long as the project gets done by the deadline, you can do what you want. You don't general go and grovel to your boss if you can leave an hour today, you just do it. A shitty engineering job might involve old-school time sheets, where you have to account for your time, but IME they are not the norm (at least in this country).Your performance generally isn't graded on whether you turn up consistently on time or not, it's how good your work is, and it you meet the deadlines etc.Some companies are very flexible, allowing you to chose your own hours, work from home if you want etc, that seems to be very common these days.YMMV.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 09:09:01 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 10, 2013, 09:03:32 ama very professional answer for a very professional job.i was hoping for rants and arguments in this thread

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 10:42:33 am
content: But you'd better damned well be there if your widget doesn't work!Where I work we have design engineers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers, support engineers, liaison engineers, maintenance engineers, firmware engineers, robotics engineers, programmers you name it. Stuff usually goes smoothly but when in doubt, it's IT's fault.Where I work we get salary plus a base overtime rate. But it's just what our equivalent hourly pay would have been. But hey it's better than nothing! Still most companies have a policy of paying salaried people for a full days work if they've worked more than 2 hours, but don't think you can just do that all the time.Today I spent most of my time writing a script to automate the gathering of information that normally required me to email someone else to get it. It installs a packet sniffer until it sees the packet with the info I need and then dumps it to a log and removes it. Now I can remotely execute this script and get the info from the source which I have full access to instead of the destination which I don't.I also wrote another script that connects to remote windows server and dumps the last 10 errors from the event log. Normally you can access that with windows computer management but far away sites with high latency connections tend to freeze the console so this exeuctes a command line query and dumps the data.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 11:40:15 am
content: Some weeks i have 40 hours of fun .. Some weeks i have 60 hours of fun. Some weeks i only have 20 hours of fun and have to spend the other 20 in stupid meetings or listening to morons those feel like work. But thats only once in a while...If you get what i mean...

author: Dago
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 12:58:10 pm
content: Not sure what the OP is trying to say and/or ask.I mean I don't think there is anything wrong with having two hour lunch shifts every once in a while. Engineering work is fairly "creative" work so in my opinion it's better to have a two hour lunch break if that is what you need to feel concentrated for the rest of the day. Two hours of lunch and six hours of excellent work is better than seven and a half hours of poor work with poor concentration and a half an hour lunch break.Sort of sounds like the OP thinks that a workplace that would strongly enforce lunch break lengths and would make everyone work a crapload of overtime would be somehow better or you'd have "more testicles" when working in a place like that. Not sure if thats what you meant. Just sounds like a poor work environment with poor management to me!What matters is if you get the job done or not. If you are having fun doing that and not feel like working at all then thats the best situation.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 03:42:02 pm
content: well I was hoping to get peoples real life experiences the good the bad and the ugly.

author: dfmischler
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 04:57:19 pm
content: I spent quite a few years working at various sites within a pretty large company. Sometimes customer sites, but usually I would go to the office in Teterboro, Hauppauge, or San Diego depending on who I was working with. Some weeks I stayed home and wrote code or specifications, or debugged something if there was enough prototype hardware for me to have some at home. Most weeks I flew out on Monday, stayed at a company apartment or hotel during the week, and flew home Thurday evening or Friday afternoon. I stayed away from home one weekend during that 10 year period. I really got a lot of reading done on planes and in airports, too. Classics, sci-fi, technical stuff, bestsellers, whatever...I never scheduled meetings for my group before 10 or 11 AM. If I worked late the previous night I might not arrive until 10 AM. In the evenings my time was my own, but I frequently worked until I was tired of it. I contributed several software packages that I wrote toDECUS. I also did a good amount of Internet play, and at least one personal software project on my own laptop computer. When this whole mess was no longer fun (and my wife became unhappy with it) I quit.Edit: There is a big difference between being "a technical guy" and "the technical guy" in your specialty within a company.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 05:34:01 pm
content: I've worked in a lot of different places, some as a permie but most as a contractor. As a contractor I get paid for the hours I'm there, but not those hours i spend putting right something i got wrong. (that bit is a legal issue which helps with tax)Some places I've worked at have insisted on engineers being there by 8am. They are crap places to work and all seem to have poor coffee machines that are expensive. Most places are happy for you to chose your working hours, provided the work gets done and that you put in a bit of extra effort should the need arise. These places have decent free coffee. I'm sure that in the UK, the quality of life of a design engineer can be judged solely on the quality of the coffee.The best place I worked at also provided free fruit mornings and afternoons.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 06:02:46 pm
content: I think it's like most jobs, in that it varies dramatically based mostly on the culture of the company. I've worked at both extremes.In one case, I was literally designing and fabricating circuits in the field to finish products that were shipped before they were complete (and the software guy was there at the same time banging out new code to support the hardware I was building). That was a truly bizarre way to do business, and was the direct result of terrible management. Traveled the world with my Swiss army knife, my soldering iron, a good selection of parts, and my brain. It was challenging and I worked a lot of hours, but it was actually one of the most fun jobs I've had.At the other end of the spectrum, I worked for an engineering company were I strolled in around 10:30am and rarely put in a full 40 hour week. They only cared about the results, they paid very well, and kept us fed to the point that I put on weight for the first time in my life. Also a fun job, but mostly because of the types of products I got to design.Somewhere in the middle, I worked for a large aerospace firm on a government space project. Only worked 40 hours a week, but it was the most boring and miserable job I've had in my life.

author: Rufus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 07:55:52 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on October 10, 2013, 05:34:01 pmWorst place I worked (as a contractor) couldn't even provide enough furniture. Go for a piss and there was a good chance the stool you were sitting on wouldn't be there when you got back. Test equipment was as bad, bringing up a 386 processor board using an Avo 8 for continuity checks and two paper clips soldered on the end of bits of wire because no one had any probes. Stupid panic job they threw lots of people at and not much of anything else.Everything was a disaster. Had an absolute bastard problem on a board that was only supposed to be a minor rev of the previous working one. In desperation two of us sat down for a couple of hours with highlighter pens and printouts of old and new netlists, as if a drawing office that couldn't compare two netlists automatically wasn't bad enough, after getting to the last line of the last page we realised the drawing office had actually given us two printouts of the same netlist. Turns out they had a CAD system version update between revs and again unbelievably could not open or import the existing schematic on the new version so they got a contractor to redraw it from the paper copy and he managed to add a spurious junction dot.Coffee was average.

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:21:53 pm
content: Quote from: SArepairman on October 10, 2013, 08:45:45 amHonestly, you seem to have a crappy attitude. I wouldn't want to hire you since you seem to want to do no more than the minimum. Don't you have any ambition at all?

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:24:31 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 10, 2013, 09:03:32 amSometimes the cultural differences that come up here are amazing. I guess you've never worked for a US-style startup, where you have equity and you do whatever it takes to turn that into $$$$$.

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:42:59 pm
content: Working for Chinese-owned companies is fun. Bosses lie to employees and employees lie to bosses. No budget for anything; even basic hand tools, let alone proper test equipment... Get promised bonuses and/or raises, only for them to never materialize. "Encouraged" to work overtime with no OT pay. At one company you had to ask permission to use the restroom. Etc. Current one isn't nearly as bad as the last, but still frustrating.Waiting for a decent US company to work at. The company culture is everything for engineering jobs, and a big part of that correlates with nationality of the owners.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:49:53 pm
content: Quote from: Phaedrus on October 10, 2013, 08:42:59 pmOne coworker I know left for a new job. He was told "we work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week." That must have sucked.At my current company, some engineers work 6 or 7 days a week, 60-70 hours a week. Others work only 5 days, no more than 50 hours a week.Some companies realize that it's "give and take" and don't do formal time tracking, others require timesheets. I had one VP of engineering say "Well, you know, if you need to go to the doctor or something, and you're gone for an hour, well, if you've worked 3 or 4 hours over that week, I'll consider that a wash." (yes, that was his actual ratio 3:1 or 4:1, and that's how he talked.)

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 08:51:53 pm
content: Quote from: KJDS on October 10, 2013, 05:34:01 pmAbsolutely 100%!I work from home a few days/week, and drink freshly ground Monsooned Malabar from myECM Mechanika. I also get a comfy chair, my own choice of music on the stereo, and the only interruptions some days are when my cat is hungry.Other days tend to start with the office jar of brown grit.

author: niflheimer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 11:10:05 pm
content: I'm currently working as a design engineer for nuclear equipments while waiting for the two other units at our NPP to begin construction. It's my first engineering job so I can't complain that much but here's both the good and bad :Good : Short commute time ( less than 30 mins ) , free coffee , quiet work place and helpful coworkers . The equipment is not top of the line but adequate - Phenom 2 CPUs , 4 gigs ram and 23'' screens for my department , 20-ish years old electrical testing equipment for the guy in the automation department.You can take short breaks whenever you want for a smoke and a cup of coffee and they do have a place on every floor for that - just an enclosed hallway with a few chairs , ashtrays , a coffee filter and a ventilation fan but it works for me.No one cares what you listen to or how you dress as long as you don't disturb the others. Though it was a hard interview for me ... I've got waist-long hair and a beard long enough to strangle myself withThankfully my boss actually considered I was more skilled than the rest of the guys interviewed.I'm working on my EngD at the same time and I am allowed to skip a few hours if I need to be at college or I'm supposed to be assisting some teacher with a class.Bad : Pay is crap - around 300 euros a month. You are supposed to be there at 8 sharp unless you've called a day before , and we use an electronic punch card to track the hours . 5 days a week , 8 to 5 unless we have some project to work on - in which case you might put 12 or more hours a day if needed. Only happened once this year though.No possibilities for vertical movement inside the institute unless someone dies or retires ( unlikely , one of my coworkers is 68 years old and still kicking ) . 10 free days a year for holidays and such.My duties are boring as hell - most of the time I'm just transcribing old paper blueprints in AutoCAD - with some rare moments when I actually get something a bit more exciting research work for this and that.

author: JoeyP
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 02:48:34 am
content: Quote from: niflheimer on October 10, 2013, 11:10:05 pmIs that a typo??If not, can someone live on this amount in Romania?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 07:07:16 am
content: Quote from: JoeyP on October 11, 2013, 02:48:34 amThat's not a typo. There are a lot earning lower wages in Eastern Europe. Chinese wages aren't much lower now.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 07:25:42 am
content: ...and yet we still outsource volume manufacturing to China. Maybe that's worth a new thread on its own.

author: poorchava
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 07:33:36 am
content: That's not a typo. Poland not very far from Romania either. If you find a job in corporation, you can get about $1k/month and this is considered a very solid paycheck. Most people, especially in government owned institutions earn half of that. And no, you cannot make a living off of $500/month (at least in Poland, a small 35m^2 apartament rent is ~$350/month), but vast majority of people have to. Eastern Europe becomes new China. Costs are not that much higher, but transportation of all the goods is much easier and cultural barrier is much smaller. For example I heard, that Amazon is planning to move 3 logistic centers from Germany to western Poland, bringing about 6000 job positions.Anyway, where I work we have timesheets and we have to check in and check out. You can generally come and leave as convenient, but you should try to be in the office between 10am and 2 pm, rest is up to you. Your working hours have to be even at the end of the month, so there are some people who for example work 10hrs/day from monday to thursday and then take friday free. Coffee is not free, but food in canteen is subsidized quite alot (you can get a 2-course dinner for ~1.30€), but quality... hmmm... "varies". You can get breaks for a coffee or a cigarette whenever you like as long. Most of the time bosses don't care that much if you watch Youtube or surf internet at work in general - as long as your work is done well and on time.

author: niflheimer
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 10:07:06 am
content: Not a typo and no , you can't really live on that alone. I do get about 200 more from my college since I'm a TA ( if you don't want to pay for your EngD you have to put in a few dozen hours a weeks as a TA ) and maybe a hundred or so more from various repair jobs and contracts. That after six+ years of uni ( I already have a master degree in nuclear safety ) . True , I didn't pay a cent for it - university is free as long as you pass all exams.Prices around here aren't that different compared to say , UK . I do own my apartment so I only pay around 150 euros for heating , water and electricity , internet is as cheap as it can get ( 15$ for 1Gbps ) and public transport is cheap too , under ten bucks a month.I probably pay most for my phone contract - 40 euros a month for unlimited voice and 2 GB of traffic. Once food and everything else gets counted in I usually have about fifty to a hundred euros left for spending - not a lot but at least it's something.What pisses me off are things like second or third-hand CROs from the 60's selling for 200+ euros. Just the other day I found a russian 1 mhz , single channel CRO selling for 140euro! And you've got no chance of scoring a twenty years old Tektronik or equivalent under 700 euros.Research work is , if you can believe it , even worse. A grad student working at a research institute actually make less than what a street sweeper does - they pay the guys with the broomsticks 300 euros + bonuses , compared with 200-250 for the poor grad student

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 11:08:09 am
content: Whats work it's playtime all the way if you really like your work.