What thermal imaging camera to use - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 22, 2024, 08:26:28 pm
content: Can you please recommend a good thermal camera for repairing laptops and TVs?I use Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera but it seems to me not good because of small sensitivity,

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 07:26:02 am
content: You are correct I do not use any lens but I think a thermo camera must show a spot with a higher temperature.If you say sensitivity is great, what temperature gradient it can show?E.g. if a being repaired PCB has common temperature 27C degrees and there will be a short causing 2C difference, can it be marked by the camera?

author: Terry Bites
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 11:52:16 am
content: That'll be the one you can afford.Start with a price your prepared to pay and read the spec.I played with a Teledyne FLIR ONE Gen 3 and I was impressed. It connects to a smartphone, though I'd use a link cable rather than stuff it straight into the phone to reduce the risk of damage to both. $200ish

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 12:21:15 pm
content: Having spent most of my working life in the service/repair of electronic equipment, I am surprised that anyone would look for a short circuit using a thermal imaging camera. I have used a bench multimeter to find the lowest resistance, then cut one or two tracks to isolate the fault.I do check components for temperature in my home built projects, mostly Voltage regulators and current sense resistors. I use a modified infrared ear thermometer, it has a very narrow opening and reads up to 100 deg C. It is quick and easy to use, and inexpensive. A thermal imaging camera looks like an expensive tool for such a simple task.SJ

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 06:04:12 pm
content: Quote from: Jane on February 22, 2024, 08:26:28 pmYou don’t need a different camera. You need training on how to use the one you’ve already got.

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 07:12:52 pm
content: @quince:QuoteCan you please teach me how to set up ( an use ) the right gain so that even 2C degrees will be observable?

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 11:46:04 pm
content: Are you using a stock camera or a liberated one? With the liberated E4 you turn manual temperature scale mode on and set lower and upper temperature scale limits. You can set temperature span just a few degrees C that way.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 23, 2024, 11:52:08 pm
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on February 23, 2024, 12:21:15 pmI did that several times and my thermal camera was very useful, especially on large boards. Instead of pocking the multimeter 100 times to different locations you can see the fault immediately. No cutting tracks. A short circuit may be inside an IC and you see that IC glowing. Not sure how you can find that using a dmm.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 06:31:32 am
content: Quote from: Solder_Junkie on February 23, 2024, 12:21:15 pmThis is how I was thought to troubleshoot as well before the thermal cameras. But people are getting creative with thermal cameras.For instance this guy repairs quite a bit of modern electronics and he injects a current limited rail into the circuit he thinks is shorting and then uses the thermal camera to find the short.It seems a bit intrusive but I can't knock the results.https://youtu.be/7BkFUgRVlvk?t=154

author: Solder_Junkie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 08:35:03 am
content: Just how many faulty, overheating, ICs are you guys finding? Almost all “dead shorts” I have encountered have been tantalum caps in older equipment, they are well known for going short circuit and are the first thing to check/replace if there is a short.Other than that, the only other short I can remember was the expansion board on a Radio Shack TRS-80 computer around 1980.I have repaired/aligned thousands of pieces of equipment over the years, yet never felt the need for a thermal camera as a repair aid. Have you guys discovered a new breed of unreliable IC?SJ

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 10:03:49 am
content: I agree with SJ that dead shorts are virtually impossible to find with a thermal camera. That is unless the short is on the output of an active device (in which case it will help to localize from the last overheating part upstream, but not the actual short), or, if you areverylucky, the shorted component is connected via very thin traces. A dead short, by definition, will dissipate no power and generate no heat.Thermal imaging and 4-wire resistance measurement are entirely complementary fault location methods. A thermal camera may help to quickly localize the fault area, but then 4-wire resistance measurement will allow localization down to the actual short point.4-wire measurement is as simple as putting a constant current (bench PSU in current limit mode) across the shorted rails / signals and then probing (with an, as sensitive as possible, mV range meter) to locate the lowest potential difference, making sure that you do not share current and sense connections. It's a very easy, and relatively quick method with a little practice.In the absence of one or other measurement capability, the 4-wire method wins. It can do what a thermal camera in isolation cannot do, but not vice-versa.I am intrigued by your naivety, quince.[Ed:combative]

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 24, 2024, 06:43:08 pm
content: @Bud: Thank you for your advice.I use liberated E4. On Monday I will check if it is possible with my E4. I bought it already few years ago and, I think , it was sold as a special edition E4.

author: Jane
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 07:48:46 am
content: I do not haveManual temperature scale modeavailable.My camera shows : Model E4 1.2LSoftware:2.11.0Few years ago I hacked the Flir E4 based on the procedure described in this forum.But now I realized the hack was not made ( probably) perfect andManual temperature scale modeis missing?And maybe because of that (not perfect) hack I considered Flir E4 not suitable enough.Can anyone let me know what steps I must take so thatManual temperature scale modewill be available?Thank you

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2024, 07:59:01 am
content: Quote from: Jane on February 27, 2024, 07:48:46 amThere are a few extra hack packages you can apply after doing the basic hack. They add extra features and color palettes.So it's possible you only did an early/basic hack for more resolution and didn't get the extra stuff.I did the basic hack and then the advanced package but NOT the Chrismass pack. I got the Manual temperature scale, so my guess is you didn't do the advanced package.(From memory the chrismass pack only gives you different user profiles, so not all that useful, but check the thread to be sure)If you plan to apply it be sure to check the thread carefully and make sure you have the right version for your firmware, or you might brick your cam.Also, there's more info in the readme text file inside the download zips. Info about what they do and what FW version they are for.I wasted ages trying to figure out what I needed from just reading the thread when I should have just downloaded files and checked what the readme said,Quote from: Jane on February 24, 2024, 06:43:08 pmMaybe search the thread for that first, to be sure its compatible.