UK Amateur Radio licence exam frustration... - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:05:11 am
content: After many attempts I finally managed to get a local radio club to answer my queries about gaining a foundation licence, they offer courses, are willing to let me bypass the theory (foundation licence is trivial and I only want to take it so I can progress to an intermediate ASAP) and just want me to demonstrate practical skills before the exam which is absolutely the best I could hope for.I can do that, I may be a little mic shy but hey, I can do it.Except...The practical and exam are on Sundays when I have my children with me and I *cannot* change that (nor would I want to, it's incredibly important to me, and I hope them, that we get to spend time together)So, foiled again.I've sent the course tutor an email explaining that in the hope that there may be an alternative as I've been promising myself I'd get licensed for years now but do you know of any amateur radio clubs in the UK, Northwest or West Midlands, where I can take the exam on a weeknight or even a weekday (I'd take a day's holiday if necessary)?

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:19:19 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:05:11 amAlthough it was probably a mad proposition... I took all my exams over 2 days at the HF Convention some years back... and I mean all.. Foundation (Day1), Intermediate and Advanced (Day2). The only on-air experience I had was I dropped into a 1-day Foundation practical session after contacting a semi-local club, I think it was run by G4FON. I was self-taught except for the practical day when they were very helpful/tolerant.I believe there is a HF Convention in Milton Keynes this year.... you could do the whole lot! (But it does mean 1 weekend)73M0ETA

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:27:28 am
content: Perhaps a dumb suggestion as I am not in UK and have no idea how it works there but ...Isn't it so that the exams are administered by someone from the regulator (OFCOM?) ? In that case they usually do these exams in the clubs for the convenience of the applicants but you could always talk to the authorities directly and they will point you where and when you could take the examination.When I did my license, we could either do it in the various clubs that were organizing these courses and exams when sufficient amount of applicants was available or directly at the telecommunications office in the capital - that one was typically during the week, because state administration doesn't work on weekends!And then there is always the option of taking your kids with you for the exam - the exams don't take that long and who knows, perhaps the kids will catch the electronics/radio bug too! If the exam is at a club I am sure you could find someone there to keep them occupied while you are busy. (of course, depends on the age of the kids, etc.)Good luck!

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 am
content: All good suggestions, the 'full' licence is further than I think I need to go, my interests are in QRP and construction so Intermediate gives me that and then gives me time to study for Full if I realise a desire or need to do so, definitely not ruling that out.The HF convention is interesting, I suppose I can 'drop out' once I've achieved the level I want and if it's weekdays or coincides with a 'free' weekend?Janoc, yes, it's administered by the RSGB in the UK, so far they've not bothered to answer emails with anything other than a link to the 'Find a club' page, emailing the clubs from that link has only yielded one reply from a club fifteen miles away, the most local club just doesn't answer, their website is so outdated it listed their meeting place as a building that I think was demolished two years ago so it seems reasonable to assume they aren't interested even though the RSGB says they're still active.I've a 9 year old son who would probably be interested but my 13 year old daughter, it's difficult enough keeping her interested in something she professed an interest in only hours before but yes, that's an option I could explore if there was no alternative, they do understand that sometimes I have to do things they might not want to take part in.I've also just read the requirements, Morse at 5WPM, there's nothing about that in the two or three online courses so I need to get on top of that fairly quickly, recommendations?

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 09:56:18 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amIt is probably over a weekend in October, you only need to be present at exam time which is indeed very short so you could probably be accompanied.Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amPar for the course. Many clubs are slowly disappearing.Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amThere is NO Morse requirement in the UK Licences. (It's a fun extra which I must get around to one day).Slight Correction: There is a very simple Morse section of the foundation practical but this is very do-able... you are allowed to write down the dots and dashes and transcribe all at a very slow speed. It probably requires zero preparation although obviously if you can process Morse already it might help. Also there was an Intermediate assessment... I guess I did that on the same day as the Foundation assessment... I remember being asked to bring some electronics along, I showed and demonstrated something I had built before.

author: Avacee
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:00:52 am
content: I'm in Cheshire and did my amateur radio license with the UK FM Group (Western)http://www.ukfmgw.co.uk/I recall they meet on a Tuesday but it may have changed as its been a few years since I did the course.I did my course at the Farnden Transmitter on the south side of Chester.If they can't help I'm sure they'll know a local group that can.

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:10:10 am
content: In theory you could fly over here or any HAREC country and sit the exams. They are next going to be held on ComReg's offices on 29th of June, which is a Thursday. Their offices are just off O'Connell Street in the center of Dublin, so easy to get to from the airport etc, once you don't mind the druggies from the near by methadone clinic.Here is a discussion on the pros and cons of doing it:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.radio.amateur/j3CIq93Crno

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 10:37:34 am
content: Quote from: Avacee on May 03, 2017, 10:00:52 amI'm in Altrincham, not so far away and the Grappenhall site is less than 20 minutes but there's no details of meetings that I can see on their site, I've contacted them to see if they can help, thank you.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 01:43:38 pm
content: Have a look at the Warrington club:http://warc.org.uk/They meet at Grappenhall and they used to do the foundation course, they probably still do.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:05:11 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amUh, that's not very helpful, indeed.Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amTell her there are a lot of cute boys there *ducks*. Yeah, that's a tough situation. On the other hand a 13 years old should be able to manage few hours alone, if necessary.Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 09:47:43 amThat sounds like outdated info, Morse requirement were abolished in most countries years ago.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 03, 2017, 03:41:59 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on May 03, 2017, 03:05:11 pmYeah, thanks for that *polishes shotgun and finds shovel*Quote from: janoc on May 03, 2017, 03:05:11 pmNope, sadly not, it's not complex because it seems you don't have to be able to read it off air, you can note it down then translate it later but even so...

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 08:01:32 am
content: When I took my test ( I would not really call it an exam) it was at the local technical college on a week day evening, after I had done the course run by the college, I don't understand why they had to change the system as it does not look to me to be any better or an advantage in the new set up.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 09:04:24 am
content: Quote from: G7PSK on May 04, 2017, 08:01:32 amThat'd be ideal if it was still available through tech colleges, I don't think it is though?I've now had replies from two clubs who run courses and tests, neither of them can accommodate my time constraints, the subtext of one reply was that I was intending to cheat because I didn't want to do the theory part of the course and included a farewell that could have been summarised as "go away and don't come back 'til you can what we want"!!!Beginning to understand why people 'freeband', it's not that the test is difficult* but the attitude of some of those who control access is not the best (and yes, I know, club volunteers, free time, needs of the many etc.)I realise my needs and time constraints are a bit different to those of most candidates but I'd like to think I would at least be able to bring a little to the hobby, having said that I am always going to put my children first as I get so little time with them so it may well be a lost hobby to me for a few more years.* exam is too strong a word, you're right and I've passed all the mock papers I can find with at least 23/26 in under three minutes.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 10:02:50 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 04, 2017, 09:04:24 amAgain par for the course! People!I guess I was lucky finding someone who would sign off my foundation and intermediate practicals... Keep trying.As far as difficulty is concerned... that's why I took advanced at the same time... if you already have electronics knowledge you are half way there.You could always try and contact G4FON and see if he knows someone up North. (http://www.g4fon.net/)

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2017, 10:58:58 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 03, 2017, 03:41:59 pmIt is outdated. From what I can see, all Morse requirements were dropped in 2003 in UK. It seems you can still get it assessed if you want, but passing a Morse test is not required anymore.http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk/full/html/c1-1-4.htmhttp://www.mfars.co.uk/courses.html"There is no longer a requirement to pass a formal morse code assessment to hold an Amateur Radio licence"However, I do have to say that finding current information about HAM radio regulations in UK is just impossible. I am surprised that OFCOM doesn't have a clear page summarizing the laws and the requirements published. Having to hunt for the info among pages that were not updated in 10 years is just nuts.

author: GreyWoolfe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 02:04:41 am
content: Quote from: CJay on May 04, 2017, 09:04:24 amShame that you're not on this side of the pond. I do special testing sessions if there is a demonstrable need. In my eyes, you have a demonstrable need for a special testing session. I accommodate because I'm a 'new guy' to ham radio, having only been licensed for 18 yearsSome people forget that it is a HOBBY not a WAY OF LIFE. It's a shame how perspective is lost. Best of luck and hope to hear you on the air someday.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 11:04:29 am
content: Quote from: janoc on May 04, 2017, 10:58:58 pmI would agree it's outdated but can see the usefulness of being able to send morse.From the RSGB book Foundation Now, Fifth Edition, 2015, page 31:"For the Foundation Licence there is no test as such but a suitable standard must be reached."It's a practical assessment carried out during the course where the tutor should send 20-30 characters for you to either read 'off air' or write down for later transcription. The tutor will also require you to send a section of text.Before the test can be taken you have to have completed the practical assessments within the course.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 11:08:00 am
content: I've now contacted the RSGB to see if they can help, I am surprised it's this difficult to enter a hobby that claims to be open to all and in need of new members.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 01:48:50 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on May 05, 2017, 11:04:29 amI would contact OFCOM and ask them whether they can require you to pass this "assessment" if you don't want to.I don't see how someone could require you to do more than what is the legal requirement in order to obtain your license. I suspect that if you tell the examiner to take a hike with the morse assessment, they wouldn't be able to do anything and will have to issue you the license anyway, assuming you have passed the actually legally required stuff. Nobody can demand more from you than what is required by law.Quote from: CJay on May 05, 2017, 11:04:29 amThat's a different issue. Having some morse skills is definitely useful, even if you never venture on HF bands. Lots of automated stations identify themselves in morse because it so much easier to implement.However, this shouldn't be a prerequisite to obtaining your ticket if it is not legally required.

author: NivagSwerdna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 02:35:49 pm
content: Seriously the Morse part of the Foundation practical is more of an introduction than a test. The speed is agreed between instructor and student and can be as low as 5WPM. IMHO It requires zero preparation but if you have played around a bit before hand it will help (and will have fun). 5WPM is painfully slow even for a beginner like me.I can also understand the desire to train as well as test... after all once you have your certificate you go off on your own and if you don't know what you are doing then you have the opportunity of ruining the air waves with poorly tuned transmitters, harmonics etc... giving yourself RF burns, irradiating your neighbours cat etc etc..You will find someone who is keen to help, it's just you haven't found them yet! (... sounds like a #song?)

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 03:09:23 pm
content: Mhmm, I get that.I'm hoping the club I'll try to visit on Sunday will be accommodating.If there's a chance to use RF to stop next door's cat defecating on my garden then I'm afraid I make no promises but other than that...

author: Spuddevans
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 04:15:44 pm
content: When I took my Foundation course(2012 i think), the instructor just got us to play with a morse practice key, I think it will depend on who the instructor is and what their view of Morse is, if they don't like it, then they wont be requiring the strictest letter of the law on it.Tim

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 05:13:11 pm
content: I'm sending myself to sleep with a Morse training program on my smartphone most evenings now, I dreamt K and M last night though I'm going to cheat on them tonight and have a dalliance with some more letters.I'm very hopeful I won't need to deal with Morse for a while yet but I am going to learn to use it, seems a useful skill to have as my interests lie in QRP.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2017, 07:12:00 pm
content: Is it really such a big deal to swap a day with the kids so you have one Sunday free? I don't know what your circumstances are but sometimes life happens, people switch schedules around all the time, it's one day, not a 6 month commitment.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 05:08:13 am
content: Quote from: james_s on May 05, 2017, 07:12:00 pmUnfortunately it is, it's a very big deal and it cost me an awful lot of money to get it resolved the first time round so I'd forgo the licence if it came to that.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 04:09:32 pm
content: Must be a very unique situation. I have quite a few divorced friends with kids, several with various custody arrangements, some more amicable than others but the one thing I've observed with all of them is that it's fairly common to vary the schedule so that one side or the other can have the kids for a family event or so the other party can go on a business trip, vacation, etc. Doesn't seem to be a big deal. If the kids normally come over Sunday they just come Saturday instead once in a while, works out the same.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2017, 09:32:17 pm
content: Of course, how silly of me not to think of asking the mother of my children, if only you'd pointed that out as an option first.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 08, 2017, 09:37:17 am
content: Well, fingers crossed, I have managed to locate a club/instructor who can take me through the practical assessments and test at a time that works for both them and I, it's going to take until mid June before I get my licence but I'm sure it'll be worth it.Now, lots of Koch Morse to listen to and play about with.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 06:01:49 am
content: I am not sure if you're still planning to just stay with the Intermediate level, I would recommend if you can time wise etc, the Advanced, it gets you reciprocal rights if/when you visit a lot of countries, a few more watts, more spectrum and gets some of the 'licence level snobs' off your back.In Aus (VK land) the license structure is almost identical - the regulations are often the hardest part.73VK5RC

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 09:58:22 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on May 09, 2017, 06:01:49 amI want to get to a point where I'm licensed and legally allowed to build equipment for use on air for now so intermediate is my target for this year.The club I've visited have suggested the advanced and I have to admit, I'm interested, enough that I am already thinking about how to find time, though it almost definitely won't be until next year at the earliest and possibly not even then.Main interests are in VHF and HF, I don't think there are many exclusions for foundation/Intermediate operators?

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 01:02:01 pm
content: Half the trick is finding a good club, in Adelaide, my city, we have several 'general' clubs but one is definitely more technically oriented. A lot of the more technically oriented guys are into microwave, where you have to build your gear but the test gear is expensive -although even that is falling with dongle type software defined radios.Other areas that appeal to me are the QRP (very low power) where almost all the gear is not only home built but home designed.Lots of different areas to explore, time and money allowing! Lots of good resources on the internet.Regards RobVK5RC

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 01:28:18 pm
content: I'm not sure about the technical aspect of this club yet, I turned up on the day of their AGM so it was far from a typical meeting, I've got a few local clubs, one of which I know is technical (but only train when they have a number of students) so they may well get a visit.I'm also interested in QRP, I've been a member ofhttp://www.gqrp.com/for a few years now and have built a few bits n pieces from their mag, SPRAT, I love the idea I can communicate CW or WSPR around the world on flea power plus it makes the equipment so accessible for an interested constructor.Microwave interests me, technically challenging and expensive to test as you say but fascinating, maybe one day...Clint

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 05:46:03 pm
content: I think I'm just not a club guy myself. I chatted with some of the guys at the club where I took my test a while back and they were nice enough fellows but they were all about chatting on the radio which is not really my thing. I've found in a number of my more specific hobbies and interests that sharing the interest does not necessarily mean I'll enjoy the company of most of the other people who are into it. I've encountered quite a few people who are *really* into whatever niche hobby it is, while my interests are a lot more varied. More generalized engineering forums such as this seem to have a pretty good balance of people though.

author: Lord of nothing
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2017, 06:21:06 pm
content: QuoteWelcome to the World of AFU!Trust me good that you are not in Austria. There is just one serious Club who think the could do what the want.The talk to the official like the where friend. The could do what ever the want. A new Repeater? No problem. Jam the hole Band with an Wideband Signal? No problem... Work or do anything against the Club mean the officials inspect the Gear often.Old People who want talk about there decease over the local repeater.Ignorant Radio Amateurs who think the know everything about the Radio stuff.I relay gave up and I use my gear on PMR446.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 10, 2017, 04:57:02 am
content: Clint, definitely go for the Advanced, 'no worries mate'.I have had a confirmed contact Aus to New York city on 14MHz with 0.1W ! (with Joe Taylor 's help and a PC).I have had a quick (successful) play with Ham Satellites, I had a bit of a try with Moonbounce - kept blowing up my pre-amp (1296MHz 350W) - so I am having a break from that and doing a bit of volt-nuttery! Lots of areas to play!I can't see any problem with training with one club and perhaps a little time later shifting to another.The Australian Ham scene sounds a lot nicer than Austria! But any club gets political to some degree - the trick is to get out of it what you want and ignore the other stuff.Robert