Books About Noise - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 08:05:28 am
content: I am a physicist. I am using a lock-in amplifier with a custom electronics. I was not able to decrease the noise orginating from my op-amp circut. Do you know any source in which noise is explained in detail ? I want to learn the topic throughout.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 08:09:27 am
content: I'm not sure you will find a book on noise but I assume you are using op-amps so a book on op-amps that goes into detail will certainly cover issues around noise.

author: juani_c
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 01:51:16 pm
content: There are a few:Fundamentals of Low-Noise Electronics by W. Marshall Leach Jr.Low-Noise Electronic System Design Hardcoverby C. D. MotchenbacherIn particular for noise in Op-Amp there are several app notes from manufacturers that might be helpful tooLow Noise Amplifier Selection Guide for Optimal Noise Performance-Analog DevicesOperational Amplifier Noise Prediction (All Op Amps)-Intersil

author: Conrad Hoffman
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 03:25:43 pm
content: You might try some of the books on noise by Ott. Also, download the Low Level Measurement Handbook from Keithley. Those should have some good theory on noise. There are also some good application notes explaining noise from National Semi, now TI. It's been decades, but I think you have to modulate or chop your input signal and then recover it with the lock-in. Somewhere in the Linear Technology application notes, Jim Williams had a good description and even a simple lock-in circuit.

author: awallin
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 04:30:15 pm
content: Quote from: Taho on April 16, 2014, 08:05:28 amthese have at least the basics, together with discussion on SNR for various measurements:Bentley: Principles of Measurement SystemsHobbs: Building Electro-optical Systems: Making it All Work

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 16, 2014, 05:04:02 pm
content: Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on April 16, 2014, 03:25:43 pm+1Henry Ott's book is regarded as good material. Don't be confused about the titles, he said himself that his book "Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering" is basically the 3rd edition of "Noise Reduction Techniques." His focus is i.m.o. more on system level solving of noise problems though he explains the topic quite well.Keithley's Low Level Measurement Handbook is freely available (well after registration). Good read.Texas Instrument's "Op amps for everyone" (3rd Ed.) has a whole chapter (Chapter 12) on 'Op amp Noise'. Note: don't get the 4th Ed. by Bruce Carter only, that one is rubbish compared to the 3rd. Ed which is written with Ron Mancini. If you look for the title on Google you'll find the Texas Instruments AppNote which has the right one in free PDF version.Finally I remember Analog Devices having a good chapter on noise in electronic circuits in one of their 'handbooks' (i.e. Linear Circuits, DSP, Data Converters) freely available online. Again Google will find it for you.

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 12:20:25 pm
content: Thanks Juani_c I couldn't find the first book but I hope it is not the most important one.Thanks awalin I couldn't find Bentley's book, it is very intersting that such a topic doesn't have enough popularity. I am new in experimental science but as I see measurement is the most important part of every thing and noise is the greatest enemy of measurement why is not this popullar.Quote from: Conrad Hoffman on April 16, 2014, 03:25:43 pmMy optical researcher friends are using chopper to choppe the light (mostly laser) parallel with lock-in to make the charactarasiton of electro optical devices. I was intereseted in chopping and read a wiki article saying that it is a very old method which is not effective today. I am applying an excitation electrical signal to device and locking in the signal reducing the noise measuring the response. If you have any advise I would like to listen.Christe4nM, thanks a lot if Keitley is sharing its experience it will be great, by the way AD's book is not freeThanks a lot all of you. I hope to solve my problem after some reading.

author: Christe4nM
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 19, 2014, 12:50:30 pm
content: Quote from: Taho on April 19, 2014, 12:20:25 pmI'm not sure which one you mean.These are the ones I meant:Op Amp Applications HandbookLinear Circuit Design HandbookThe Data Conversion HandbookMixed Signal and DSP Design TechniquesIn addition:Op amps for EveryoneLow level measurement handbook 6th Ed.(direct to PDF)Low level measurement handbook 7th Ed.(Must register first)

author: codeboy2k
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 08:47:38 am
content: Quote from: Taho on April 19, 2014, 12:20:25 pmThe first book is about 200 pages. Here is a 25-page IEEE paper from the same author, with a similar title on the paper as on the book.Fundamentals of Low-Noise Analog Circuit Design-by W. Marshall Leach Jr.pdf[@zippyshare]

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 08:55:20 am
content: I mean these :http://www.analog.com/en/content/cu_td_technical_bookstore/fca.htmlThanks for the 7.ed, I downloaded the 6. ed. AD's free books, application is what I need exactly, thanks a lot.

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 09:03:08 am
content: Quote from: codeboy2k on April 20, 2014, 08:47:38 amNice paper theoretical explanation, thanks.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 09:57:51 am
content: If you are serious this is the reference text:http://www.amazon.com/Low-Noise-Electronic-System-Design-Motchenbacher/dp/0471577421/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397987720&sr=1-1&keywords=low-noise+electronic+system+designBit pricey though.EDIT: just noticed mentioned already. Otts book(s) are about electromagnetic compatibility - a different kind of "noise" problem.

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2014, 08:30:44 pm
content: Of course I am serious. I had found that book, referred before.I will learn the noise phenomenon throughput, EMC as well.Thanks...

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 12:44:01 am
content: In terms of classic books about noise I still have my copy of "The White Noise Book" by Tanthttp://www.amazon.co.uk/White-Noise-Book-Multichannel-Communication/dp/0950494119It's definitely NOT what you are looking for but I 've mentioned it because it was a classic book about noise that describes the use of noise as a test signal for testing the system linearity of wideband multichannel telephone networks eg FDM based satcom systems.The idea is to use noise power as a wideband signal to give a typical loading on a system and then look for additional distortion terms caused by the noise itself. The technique is called NPR testing and the idea is to produce an NPR curve which is an old school figure of merit for such systems.NPR techniques can also be used for testing the linearity of modern systems. I have used this technique on some of my designs instead of doing multicarrier tests at a wide IF or at baseband.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 04:51:11 am
content: Quote from: Taho on April 19, 2014, 12:20:25 pmOne issue is that noise is a huge field, and people mean different things by it (one man's noise is another man's signal). You are going to have to find out more specifically what kind of "noise" you have. For instance, the most restrictive definitions of noise include just intrinsic noise sources like johnson noise and shot noise: noise that comes from your sensor or your amplifier. However, that is only a tiny part of things that can make your measurement garbage: you can have interference (EMI), microphonics and triboelectric noise, drift in various parameters such as your transducer coefficient, or true variation in the physical quantity you are measuring. You have to find a different book to learn about each of these! Any book on opamp circuits should cover amplifier noise and source noise. Ott's books talk about EMI and ground loops. The keithley low level measurement handbook covers things like triboelectric noise and thermal EMFs. For problems related to the physics of your measurement system you need a domain specific book. For instance, Hobbs has a smattering of all of the above, plus a ton of stuff about the particulars of electro-optical systems. He also posts on this board from time to time.QuoteChopping is a great method that is still quite effective today. You just have to understand what it is good for -- primarily eliminating background light (i.e., from room lights), but it also it move your signal frequency up above the 1/f noise corner of your detector. It *does not* do anything to eliminate laser noise, including 1/f intensity noise in your laser, nor does it do anything to eliminate problem with multiple reflections or stray laser light, which are the bane of most optics measurements. In other words, it fixes your detector, not your source. Adding a chopper will not fix a bad experimental design, but it will let a good design run with the lights on. Of course, lock-in techniques are far broader than just choppers, and I will say that a lot of times people use choppers because they haven't tried thinking about a better way. As a general guide, when you want to use a lock-in you want to get as close as possible to modulating the thing you care about. Chopper basically are just a way to modulate the detection. If you can modulate the interaction you are measuring, that is much better.

author: Alexei.Polkhanov
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2014, 05:49:06 am
content: There is a book on Operational Amplifier Noise by Art Kay:"OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER NOISE - Techniques and Tips for Analyzing and Reducing Noise".I am not sure how good this book is but sounds like it is right on subject.Amazon:http://www.amazon.ca/Operational-Amplifier-Noise-Techniques-Analyzing/dp/0750685255

author: Taho
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 07:29:24 am
content: Quote from: ejeffrey on April 21, 2014, 04:51:11 amYes Ejeffrey, I agree with you, that is a huge topic and probably will take my mounths to learn.I meant the electrical chopper as an old technique, at least wiki say so there are some ICs for chopping the signals. And yes, it is essential for opticians but I don't have any job with light and probably electrical chopping is useless for me. Thanks I will use the books with your words.Quote from: Alexei.Polkhanov on April 21, 2014, 05:49:06 amThanks Alexei, it is right on the subject and found the book.

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 22, 2014, 08:29:01 am
content: Electrical chopping is something rather different to optical chopping. Applied to operational amplifiers it is an old technique use to improve the DC precision (input offset error and short/long term drift). It doesn't improve noise performance. In fact it adds a great deal of demodulation "noise" which then has to be filtered out, dramatically limiting the bandwidth of the amplifier. There are modern precision op-amps called "chopper amplifiers" but the term is really a misnomer.