MEng or BEng? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:17:00 pm
content: Should I take an MEng degree or BEng?In the UK, you generally have two choices for engineering degrees. I am currently on an Electronics & Electrical Engineering MEng course at the University of Leeds, but in a few months I can decide to switch that to BEng. BEng is 1 year shorter and you are less qualified.However, how much does this matter? Well, 1 year shorter is ~£12,000 less debt (at 9% per year extra tax), plus I'll get into a job earlier, so there's more earning potential there.I have done a year in industry at a nearby engineering company - I finish in two weeks and return to university in about six weeks. Working there has taught me more in 1 year than all previous years of university and college tuition ever could have. Previously, I have also worked on-and-off for a company designing several PCBs and writing lots of code for over 2 years during summer/winter breaks. And currently, I am doing on-the-side consulting for another company in my free time.All of these things surely look good on my CV, so is an extra year really necessary? I'm constantly reminded that MEng attract higher salaries, but how true is this really? Of course universities like to support this idea, as it brings them more money. So asking them is pointless.The downsides I see: I'll likely "only" get a 2:1 if I take the BEng route. The group project in 3rd year is half the marks and I historically get >90% on hardware projects (which would push me into a high First), but I don't do that for BEng. Only 1/3rd marks for a Masters-style project, which requires a detailed thesis too...Thoughts, ideas? As an employer would you consider someone with 3 years as "lesser" than 4 years, even with good practical experience?

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:30:25 pm
content: Do the MEng. It'll make obtaining CEng much easier.

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:36:26 pm
content: If you enjoy life at university more than work, then do the M.Eng.Otherwise go and have fun at work. It's rare I work with anyone that's concerned about C.Eng, and as long as you have a reasonable degree from somewhere that wasn't a kindergarten in the 1980's then an M.Eng will make very little difference to your career. That's assuming that you can find a decent job.

author: amiq
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:41:07 pm
content: The lad might find that he wants to do something other than electronics in a few years - that is when CEng makes a difference.

author: PICmonster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:41:37 pm
content: You can become CEng with just BSc if you have a lot of experience and can prove your competency.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:42:38 pm
content: Quote from: amiq on August 11, 2015, 05:41:07 pmWhat other jobs would be opened up to me with a CEng?Primary interests are electronics design, systems engineering and embedded software engineering.I prefer complete project end-to-end ownership. I'd be a terrible management person or salesperson.

author: PICmonster
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2015, 05:54:23 pm
content: In my experience you have to be very very careful about the role you take on, some roles can be expressed as an electronics design engineer role but in reality is this can be more project management. The automotive industry I found like this more compliance documentation around an electronics design than actually deign work, for instance a simple electro-mechanical switch that has lots of associated compliance documentation, if you like designing hardware I would steer clear of the automotive industry unless you like lots of documentation and a bit of hardware design.

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:09:30 am
content: Yes, I don't think I'd be very good in a project management role. I'm a designer. Engineer.Any more thoughts?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 11:59:16 am
content: If you can afford the time and money for the MEng, get that. You are already enrolled in it, so just hunker down and finish it. You'll almost certainly never regret the MEng, but you might regret the BEng at some stage. Not that BEng isn't fine, it is.Another thought, a 3 year degree is in many countries an "associates degree" or some other name, and some countries may not recognise a 3 year degree as being equivalent to a typical 4 year BEng in that country.

author: German_EE
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 04:20:53 pm
content: Get the MEng, that extra year is worth it and shows to possible employers that you have staying power.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 09:59:32 pm
content: Talk to the people in the uni's career advisory service. Make sure you get one that has engineering experience and even then ask oblique questions that will help you assess their compentence. Some are very good, others less so.Talk to people with a CEng, probably from the IET, or approach the IET directly viahttp://www.theiet.org/Potential employers will like that (1) you realised you had a choice (2) you took several different tacks to find out information, and (3) you made a decision. Even if you don't put that in a CV, it makes a good talking point during interview.Consider how it might look on your CV if employers twigged that you started and MEng and then switched to a CEng. There might be excellent reasons, but would those reasons be visible/understood on a CV?

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 12, 2015, 10:43:01 pm
content: As I've worked for myself for the last 25 years, I may be out of touch, but does CEng actually carry any weight, or is it a more of a trophy?A couple of decades ago, when bachelor degrees weren't two-a-penny, I'd have said just do the BEng. Nowadays you're competing against such a large pool, you need something to make you stand out, so the MEng would help no end in avoiding a less than stellar job at the beginning of your career.I am interviewing for a couple of positions at the moment on behalf of another company, one of the positions is expecting about ten+ years' exposure and the other four years or so, and to be honest whether the candidates have a bachelors or masters at this stage is almost irrelevant, it's their real work experience that matters. Personally, I wouldn't require a degree at all if they can show they're technically competent, keen and have decent soft skills (hate that term!). I saw a couple of candidates over the past few days, one was technically better than the other, and boasted two degrees, but the other was an excellent communicator and would naturally fit into the team I'm recruiting for, and so I'd be recommending the latter, despite not being the more technically astute candidate.Some of the candidates seem keen to boast of their multiple degrees, or masters, giving it an over-prominent position on their CVs/resumes: to be honest after a few short years it becomes less and less relevant in my opinion. But at the beginning of your career, when competition for those few dream jobs is fierce in the graduate world, you need all the help you can get.As an aside, I had one candidate turned up over ten minutes late. Tip: please, just don't do it! Not only does it show you can't organise yourself, it will inevitably get you stressed out before you've even started the interview. Ten minutes early is the sweet spot.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 08:00:38 am
content: Quote from: Howardlong on August 12, 2015, 10:43:01 pmIt doesn't really carry any weight here in the UK from my experience. I think some Europeans take it a bit more seriously, but experience is much more valuable.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 08:58:58 am
content: Quote from: SteveyG on August 13, 2015, 08:00:38 amItcando for some jobs, and can be important when dealing with people in other professions. Defining your job as "Chartered Engineer" can get people's attention more than a "mere" electronic engineer. That's the way of the world.But those are minor points, icing on the cake.QuoteMost definitely, especially those cultures where engineering is a respected profession and engineers don't lag pipes (thermal insulation engineers) or repair toasters.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 10:01:39 am
content: I wouldn't expend any energy at all on getting a CEng. I had a student job 20 years ago where the company was keen on it, and they enrolled all the student engineers into the IEE training programme, but that's it. Since then, nobody has asked me about whether or not I have a CEng, and the only Chartered Engineer I've even come across in recent years wasn't even working as an engineer.Getting a CEng is a harmless enough tick in a box, and there's no real downside if it's something you want to do, but I wouldn't bother. It's just not that important to either HR depts or other engineers.As for your MEng vs BEng, that's a tough one. Most engineering degrees at worthwhile institutions are 4 years and award the MEng degree, so you'd always face the difficult question about why you didn't stay on and complete the whole course. "Cost" would be a good answer.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 10:55:09 am
content: Will large companies in the UK even bother to read your CV these days if you only have a BEng?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 11:04:19 am
content: Quote from: coppice on August 13, 2015, 10:55:09 amIf you've got a few years experience, quite what degree you have, and where you obtained it from, is largely irrelevant.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 13, 2015, 11:13:33 am
content: Quote from: KJDS on August 13, 2015, 11:04:19 amThat depends on what type of job you are aiming at.For most of my jobs, and certainly all of the good/fun ones, agooddegree wasabsolutely essential. I knowfor a factI wouldn't have reached the interview stage without it. I know that since I was intimitely involved in all aspects of the the recruitment processes for several years in several jobs.Having a solid track record of achievement (even before my first "real" job) was also essential.