Microphone design - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 03:45:12 pm
content: Hey guys, I would like to create a decent sounding desktop microphone at the 40-50$ range and I'm trying to look for somebody that could help with creating schematics and the PCB layout.I only do software so I don't really feel qualified evaluating properly and picking somebody that could do a good job.So my question is, apart from previous involvement with sound, which questions should I ask to get a proper sense about the engineer I'm talking to? Which tests do you think he should be able to perform to make sure the product functions properly?Lastly, is this considered to be a very complex undertaking? Is it reasonable expecting to find someone that would qualify on a relatively small 400-500€ budget?If anyone can point me to somebody that could be interested please feel free toThanks guys, you're on such an amazing niche...I've started to convince myself that hardware is the new software, hahaha

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 04:44:27 pm
content: I don't think any professional engineer is going to charge less than 100 €/hr and project like this will definitely take much longer than 5 hrs. Even a for simple off-the-shelf parts integration design, getting it to a working physical state is likely to take at least 100hrs i.e. 30 000€ not including costs for prototyping materials/components. You're asking someone to build a functional physical product, it's not like boiler plate software. Particularly, you're asking for a microphone which is a considerably complex electromechanical device. At the end you'll have a design for a microphone that's likely functional at best, then you'd have to bring it to production if you want make money off it?Another route is trying to do an open source type project but you'll have to convince people you and you're project are worth working on. Might be particularly hard since you don't seem to have the required knowledge to lead such a project?My advice to you to to understand exactly what it is you want as exactly and specifically as possible using quantifiable specifications. You could then post those here for feedback. Then write that up into a project proposal to bring to engineering firms/consultants for quotation.I'd also encourage you to consider taking the plunge and learning how to design and build the whole thing yourself, particularly if this isn't a serious venture and you want to save money.Edit: Absolute lowest time would probably be 20hrs to chuck together a spitball PCB and schematic without actually building it or doing any testing

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 04:55:45 pm
content: Definitely such a budget is low for advanced countries but maybe there are people internationally that could make it happen, I'm sure such budget would sound like a joke in the US or AU but where I come from at least 500€ is somewhat of a considerable amount.I don't want to get involved in crowdfunding to be honest as I don't want to convince them about something that I'm not sure I can deliver and end up deceiving them.I've got all the specifications in mind but how feasible they are doesn't depend entirely on me so that's something to be discussed with the engineer.Thanks for your reply,I appreciate it

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 05:51:32 pm
content: Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 04:55:45 pmFair enough, it'd be wrong for me to disparage hard working people but you can expect to get what you pay for, dealing with a client that requires significant education and guidance usually means higher fees or a very patient consultant.Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 04:55:45 pmI'm not talking about crowd funding. I'm talking about building it with the technical help from community members publicly. Like people are doing for lots of projects over on the open source hardware boardhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/oshw/Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 04:55:45 pmThe fact you aren't openly sharing this here to get feedback tells me you're probably trying to keep it secret because you want to make money off this idea? That means you probably don't want to go the open source route which requires you openly share all the details of the project.I suggest you do some research and learning on "hardware product development" to help educate yourself what will need to be done so you can keep an eye on what your consultant is doing/asking from you.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:13:47 pm
content: Basically agree with above.You'll find no one to do this at this rate in western countries. (You could try lower-paid countries through platforms such as Freelancer.com, there are many people from those countries. Now whether you'll get what you expect is another story. Also, I personally find those platforms questionable. But at least know they exist.)Of course, you could find people willing to help even for free... provided the project itself is interesting enough. Open-sourcing would not necessarily even be mandatory as long as the interest is there. Conversely, just open-sourcing the project wouldn't make it suddenly interesting.Which leads me to my final point: what's the point of this project? Can you explain what you'd see in it, considering there are literally thousands of desktop microphones on the market, with a whole range of specs and price tag?

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:27:49 pm
content: Quote from: sandalcandal on October 27, 2020, 05:51:32 pmI totally agree on your first point, its pretty reasonable to expect that you get what you pay for but there are chances, maybe small, that I end up finding what I'm looking for, so I don't really want to give up without searching first.About the crowd funding I guess I misunderstood you I'm sorry. As you mentioned before a microphone is considerably complex electromechanical device so I'm not entirely sure how long it would take me to get to a halfway decent result, it kind of seems impossible at least in less than a year - I could be wrong.I'm not really secretive about the product, its just a decent slick looking desktop microphone with a nice knob and some lights on it, that's all.I've already done some research, learned some basics about electronics, trying to find some microphone teardowns and take a peak so I can get a sense of what people already doing, searched for ICs and components and in general tried to make my self more familiar with many concepts. I'll definitely get more engaged and try to contribute by any means might make sense.I just hope I stumble across someone that has already worked on such a project and maybe has a relatively easy time implementing it.

author: nali
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:31:46 pm
content: In addition to the above, what exactly does "decent sounding" mean? For example I once built a desktop mic for my Yaesu transceiver... it had some audio compression and a bit of diode clipping, and sounded really good over the air. But it'd sound awful if you wanted to record a musical instrument or use it for video presentations. There's a reason specs tend not to use adjectives - that's left to the marketing types after the design work is done and the product made.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:32:53 pm
content: Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 03:45:12 pmTurn that around. You can probably judge what someone's like by the questions they ask you when presented by a brief as open as "I would like to create a decent sounding desktop microphone at the 40-50$ range and I'm trying to look for somebody that could help with creating schematics and the PCB layout.".You'll probably get asked all of those in this thread while people try and figure out what it is that youreallywant to do. I'll kick off:"What features are you looking for that stop you from just buying an existing product off the shelf? Or phrased alternatively, what features in your product are going to differentiate it from the others on the market - what's your USP?"

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:43:16 pm
content: Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 06:27:49 pmIf you're feeling brave then you'll probably get the most help if you share as much of your vision as you can in detail. That way people have something they can actually comment on.Edit: Like this thread for examplehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/car-parking-heater-but-with-batteries-phew/

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 06:50:51 pm
content: Quote from: SiliconWizard on October 27, 2020, 06:13:47 pmThe main reason of this post is because I could end up sourcing someone from such a website so I was wondering which things you would look after in order to decide who seems more reliable. Such questions could be having some machinery available? Being able to conduct some specific tests on the product, having developed anything specific, etc...?Well I don't really know which engineer of the likes of which sandalcandal described would get engaged in such a project for free, so I don't really know if I can count much on free help to be honest. I got no problem open sourcing the project, I open source most of my code and I use open source daily. I don't think it would directly harm the product.The point in this project of this product is that I experienced exactly to opposite of what you've described, there is a serious lack of desktop microphones in the 50$ range with the otherwise very popular look currently, which looks relatively like this:https://prnt.sc/v84zpkMaybe I'm mistaken but that's what I've experienced so far while trying to pick one for myself

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 07:04:06 pm
content: Quote from: ysl on October 27, 2020, 06:50:51 pmI think you'll get pretty good advice on here or other places with just a high concentration of skilled engineers on a public forum. Quite possibly better than a 500€ freelancer. Especially if you're willing to do the "leg work". Post your idea here, get feedback and ideas on what needs to be done, go do it yourself then bring back the results here to share and repeat until the project is complete. Even though at the current stage you're inexperienced you'll likely never get stuck with the freely available help and advice.I think you've shown a pretty good willingness to communicate and take feedback onboard. If you keep this process of working hard then coming back here to update and share progress I think you'll do very well. Perhaps start a new thread over in the projects boardhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/No need to do it all at once, you've already set yourself a year at least. As long as you check in regularly and give people updates on what you've done I think you'll get practically unlimited help.

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 07:08:49 pm
content: Quote from: nali on October 27, 2020, 06:31:46 pmWell, with decent sounding I would describe a good sounding microphone for daily use by average users mostly for communication. I don't really have expectations that the microphone could be used in a professional setting. I just want it to be enough and satisfying for normal day to day use.Regarding the microphone itself I'm trying to make some sense from other microphones which I can find teared down.This one for examplehttps://prnt.sc/v8597jis being sold at ~90-100€ and from a quick glance doesn't seem that sophisticated. I'm not sure to judge but at least it doesn't seem intimidating at all. With my limited knowledge I can recognize a CM6327, a crystal and some capasitors, I don't know about the rest I've already looked up to the IC pins and to be honest it doesn't seem so hard to setup a basic circuit for this, maybe I'm mistaken.

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 07:17:27 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 27, 2020, 06:32:53 pmYes you are right, I should clearly mention all the specifications in the first post. I've partly replied to two of my answers but I'll sum it up as a decent looking/sounding desktop microphone which looks relatively like thishttps://prnt.sc/v85jcpor thishttps://prnt.sc/v84zpkand maybe a knob like thishttps://prnt.sc/v85kwqif we could pull this through.I don't really think there are many options in the 50$ even 60$ range.

author: ysl
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: October 27, 2020, 07:31:22 pm
content: Quote from: sandalcandal on October 27, 2020, 07:04:06 pmI feel like I've received much help already and I'm really happy you guys genuinely trying to help instead of turning me down for a post that otherwise I'm sure seems at least questionable.To be honest I'd love setting up a workbench and getting my hands dirty and I've yet to cease considering it. I'll wait to see if I there are any positive responses from an engineer, get a better idea for the scope of the project and I could very likely take the route you're suggesting.Thanks a lot for your input

author: sandalcandal
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 03, 2020, 07:47:43 pm
content: Not sure if you're still here or looking. Came across this:https://hackaday.com/2020/11/02/building-a-top-notch-electret-microphone/#more-444263Gives a good guide to the process of building a microphone that should come out to something near your target cost at least in terms of the BoM.