Ebay find: TIL311 displays, non-ridiculous price - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 05:49:40 pm
content: Not my listing, but I happened upon these while nosing around for interesting old components.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Til311-DIS1417-Texas-Arduino-Til-311-Alphanumeric-Hexadecimal-Display-Logic-/141740689041?var=&hash=item2100674691I'm rather tempted to get a tube of them for myself but I thought I'd share in case anyone else fancied someThe last time I saw any of these listed they were going for a lot more.

author: plazma
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 07:42:50 pm
content: Thanks. I was missing one for thishttp://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55173&

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 08:39:22 pm
content: Quote from: BulletMagnet83 on September 07, 2015, 05:49:40 pmI used a lot of these things at work in the 80s. They were nice at the time due to combining TTL logic for decoding from binary to segment and led display all on one chip, thus saving significant board space. However they were rather pricey at the time, did draw significant current (TTL days!) and the actual display size is pretty small.I wouldn't use them today, cheap LCD displays with parallel or serial interface are just too easy to use with a little help from the micro.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 09:44:11 pm
content: Quote from: retrolefty on September 07, 2015, 08:39:22 pmFor projects where more than one of something is going to be built, I would agree entirely. But, I am a silicon pervert, with an unhealthy fascination for old things that look cool in spite of being long out of production, inefficient, etc etc, whether I know how to use them or not.And IknowI can't be the only one of those on here!EDIT: Oh well.... gave in to temptationThankfully I can already think of a good use for a few.

author: ElectricGuy
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 10:00:23 pm
content: Quote from: BulletMagnet83 on September 07, 2015, 09:44:11 pmBelieve me, your are not the only one!I also have a collection of display, like nixies, VFD, bubble, 7 seg, etc...Now you show me this one.. Dam you BulletMagnet83, now i have to buy some!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2015, 10:19:38 pm
content: Got a pack of 10 ordered, should be here in a week or soI figured they'd make for a rather attractive manual RAM-poking device for a 6502 board...

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2015, 11:32:42 am
content: Nice find! They look fun. Just ordered 10 as an investment for the grandchildren. Hopefully the Nixie craze price inflation will hit these soon

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 04:48:12 pm
content: Just received my lot today - all new.Tested on a breadboard with an ATtiny85- all work great

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 07:07:29 pm
content: It is the TIL308 that is the ridiculous price. The TIL 311 has always been about £5 a piece, possibly ridiculous but the TIL308 I have seen at $500 each.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 07:44:18 pm
content: looks interesting.might get somesome forums end up costing me money. this is one of them, lol.

author: Eartoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 08:21:55 pm
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 14, 2015, 04:48:12 pmMine arrived today as well.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 08:58:07 pm
content: Quote from: Eartoot on September 14, 2015, 08:21:55 pmwhere are you located and how long did it take?

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 09:19:46 pm
content: Quote from: woodchips on September 14, 2015, 07:07:29 pm$500I was joking about the investment for the grandkids... but maybe not?£2 each including delivery aint bad.Of course I had to use up all the pins on the ATtiny85 and multiplex the displayshttp://streamable.com/i947. I had to disable the /RESET function of pin 1 using the fuse settings to get PB5 working.Note they look much nicer in real life. More contrast and the LEDs are redder, the die is not so bright (but you still see it which is nice).As an aside: Bloody hell, I have to say that AVR Studio 6 is dog slow! I used to use WinAVR and programmers notepad but figured its time for a change. No wonder everyone uses Arduino "Wiring" or whatever it is. Also whats all this stuff with PORTB for output and PINB for input? I would use PORTB for both with WinAVR.Quote from: linux-worksUK Here - it took a week from Portugal. ETA: (Well, 4 working days to be fair)

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 09:31:19 pm
content: I usually put the red led displays behind red plexiglas and that helps darken some of the details I prefer not to see. I like ghostly red segments or dots floating behind a display window and the red leds behind red plastic does thatdriving these will be easy for me. I am currently already using bcd on a nixie style board (a pair of 8bit i2c port expanders handles 4 display digits) and so it will be pretty much a direct plug-in to my nixie clock system. the fact that you don't have to mux them is a nice thing for me. screw the current draw, this is not for battery use, lol.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 09:53:34 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on September 14, 2015, 09:31:19 pmOh the current draw is bad by modern standards, but nottoobad. Mine is averaging about 120mA with a 5V supply powering the ATtiny85 and both displays. I set the alarm on my DP832 at anything over 130mA and it beeps when 'AA' is displayed, so they are the CO2 generating planet destroyers!

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 14, 2015, 11:06:09 pm
content: Mine arrived a few days agoUntested yet but in immaculate condition, looking forward to playing with them!

author: Eartoot
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 02:02:18 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on September 14, 2015, 08:58:07 pmAck, hadn't noticed my flag wasn't set. I'm in the UK (well Northern Ireland). Ordered ten on the 9th and was posted as a tube wrapped inside an anti-static bag which was wrapped well by an envelope and tape. Postage was around 1.7 euros.

author: mos6502
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 02:55:37 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 14, 2015, 09:53:34 pmJust never look directly at them, or you'll get your retinas burned to a crisp by the whopping max. 2mcd per digit.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 15, 2015, 03:30:53 pm
content: PM sent! I'm in the process of restoring old HP gear and those HDSP displays might just come in handy!Edit: By the way, here's s great history of HP's involvement in LEDs and how they invented the LED based numeric display, including this adorable bubble displays:http://hpmemoryproject.org/timeline/bob_steward/led_solutions_00.htm(It came about because Nixie tubes were hard to interface with TTL logic and unsuitable for battery powered instruments. Fun Fact: Originally the HP-35 calculator was going to use an LCD, but production and quality issues prevented that. Instead, custom tiny LED displays that used little magnifiers over each digit (bubble displays) were developed for the purpose; can you imagine if they had gone with the LCD? They'd all be delaminated by now!)Sent from my Tablet

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 23, 2015, 08:53:39 pm
content: got mine today. ordered the day that I saw this post and replied to it. I'm in the bay area. that should give people an idea of how long it takes to get to the US from the seller.one unit tested ok. will build something with it soon (I bought a tube of these)update: threw together a test board. sending in some random chars:I had a plexiglass 1/8" filter on hand, and that is over the leds (just laying on top for the photo).guess I have to make a clock, now. (yes, a real clock. not that other thing that isn't a not-a-clock. or to that effect.)

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 06:31:21 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on September 23, 2015, 08:53:39 pmHow many in a tube?

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:27:41 pm
content: these things really put out some heat...putting my fingers on the displays, it feels warm. not hot, but defintely quite warm. I think I'm drawing half an amp with the 4 digits I have on that board. I'm not (yet) muxing them and I might have to use the digit-blanking pin to either pwm-dim them or mux them.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 05:55:38 pm
content: That seems way too much. I'monlyusing about 65mA for each display. The voltage supply for the LEDs can be separated from the logic supply so you can increase it or lower it (lower it to 4.2 and you get a funny semaphore effect) or as you say PWM the on/off pins.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 07:15:20 pm
content: the clock now works.(feeding it time from my gps arduino test bed)I'll check its actual current draw later on. I have the led supply tied to 5v and I assume that's the usual config? or is this supposed to be thru a cur lim resistor? I thought it was normal 5v on the two 'top' pins (1 and 14) and 7 being gnd.if you put your finger on the front of the display, you'd never say it was cold. its definitely warm to the touch.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 07:21:26 pm
content: You could drop Vdisplay with a resistor or a diode, but those displays from memory always run a little warm, as they after all TTL and have to handle the LED current as well.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 07:55:28 pm
content: I would not want them to be any dimmer, really. they seem about right for a typical room, indoors, and even behind the red filter.so, if they run warm, so be it. this is not a battery-based deviceI may still try to mux the digits but since I can take half an amp from usb and this will be usb powered, I don't care to optimize away what is not worth the effort.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 08:04:40 pm
content: Good work, linux-worksYou don't need a current limit for the digits supply and yes you should run it directly off the +5V. I think they have a seperate supply for the LEDs that could be unregulated because back then it would be a waste of that expensive clean supply current that would be used for your logic gates!The decimal points probably do need a driver transistor and current limiting resistor. I haven't tested them yet.As for muxing, they should definitely be multiplexed it would be silly not to - but they don't mux the same way as 7 segs or nixies. The displays keep a memory of what was programmed into them when latched, so there is no power saving by multiplexing. You could try modulating the display on/off pin. That may work, but is probably going to be the same as a current limiting resistor and with the same result - a dim display.Worth experimenting with though.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 24, 2015, 09:54:35 pm
content: what I was planning was to scan across the blank-select pin (like a chip-select or latch) to make sure only 1 digit (display module) is eating led current at a time. I can't change the logic but I assume the current is mostly due to leds and that they were old, inefficient leds.I remember when I first started (70's) that the usual led series resistor was 120 or 150 or maybe 180 ohms. now, I generally throw in a 1k (all for 5v) since modern leds are lots better than first or 2nd gen leds.for the clock, I need to find some small pt src leds that look about the same size as these dots are, to make a center colon indicator. maybe some smd leds will do the trick but even then, I think those might be too large for the dot size I want.I might made a board that takes 4 or 6 of these and gives a semi-simple i2c interface to them, so that would just be clk/data/5v/gnd. that would make interfacing with these much simpler.another thought I had was to use an 8bit port expander per digit, make very small boards with the PE and the led display and let users stack them horizontally, as many as needed, to create chains of them.you need 4 bits for the bcd digit, 1 bit that you pulse to latch the value, 1 bit for the display blanking (there is no 'space' char and 0-9,a-f are all the 16 combos), and then for completeness, you need 2 bits for the left and right decimal points. that's 8 bits, yeah?it eats up bits like crazy this way but I see no other easy and clean way to do it.in my test bed, I sent 8 wires over to the arduino. 4 for 'enable' lines (1 per char) and 4 bcd lines. I tied blanking to a constant (for now) and I'm only strobing the enable lines as I paint numbers across the display strip.initial thoughts were to use a 16bit port expander to handle the 4 digit clock style display but I might as well just use an arduino and it will give me more digital lines, some pwm built in, and I could set the chip up as an i2c slave or even a serial slave, for flexibility. still just 1 28pin chip if I go skinnyDIP or the 'nano style' smd chip, taking even less space up on the display board.once the board is done, it will be generic building block. I have used adafruit i2c display strips before and this is a similar idea.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 25, 2015, 08:39:46 am
content: Small SMD led's with a 4k7 resistor should be about the right size to equal the dots, and the current that low should drop them to about the same brightness. You probably will want to have the resistor where you can change to match brightness, or put in a 10k SM pot to adjust with a series 1k resistor for oops protection.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 02:58:39 am
content: damn, did you say 4.7k?how the HELL did you know that??damn. I didn't see this until now, I went and experimented and found the right value to be: about 4.5 or 5k.wowanyway, here 'tis:kids, don't try this at home. I think I invented new curse words while trying to hand wire those 2 smd leds in. you don't want to be in the same room as me when I do this, lolthe 2 leds in series and with 4.7k was pretty close to perfect. its what I had on-hand and my resistor decade box also confirmed it. (I'll check netcraft later).

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 05:05:54 am
content: Experience with those old LED's and replacing just one in a panel that had failed.........Tip for the next one is to take some veroboard ( a small scrap piece) of 3 tracks and 1 hole, then solder the LED's to the tracks, then you can put the wires on. File down afterwards to fit the gap.You used to get those LED's in a package where they were basically the LED in a small formed block of red epoxy, with 2 thin kovar leads into the block, Fragile as hell, but they were the same tiny dies as the display.BTW, looks nice there.

author: wagon
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 06:12:58 am
content: Quote from: linux-works on September 14, 2015, 09:31:19 pmI scrounged a whole bunch of red lenses off our firetrucks, after we converted one half of each lightbar to a blue lens. I have a use for them now. Chop chop.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 09:04:43 am
content: Thats a neat trick with the SMD LEDs. I've noticed that pin-point effect when probing boards with the diode check on my DMM. Never thought there would be a use for driving them so lowThey will really look the part with a red filter.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 09:13:39 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on September 26, 2015, 05:05:54 amOr 4 x 1 for the 0805 472 as well

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 09:57:14 am
content: I was at the scrap yard today, shopping, and found some nice orange LEd indicators on a scrap board from a 400kg photo processor.Nice Infinieon chipset, but already half destroyed for the stainless steel content.Anybody want the orange quads, pop me a message and I will cut the section of board off and pop it in the post to you.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 26, 2015, 09:49:41 pm
content: current state of the clock: I've been playing around with xbees (quite a lot) for 'IoT' kinds of message passing. here, I have an xbee on a leash (lol) and I can 'remote' this if needed, in case the reception is not great where the clock is sitting.the sender is a gps clock that has an xbee and it beacons out time every so often, or on request from a client (like this TIL311 clock project).to get this thing to be less fragile, I just mounted an arduino nano on the back of a 2nd pcb and connected them with some ribbon cable, point to point soldered. it made a small little pkg and its repairable, toonext time I'm at techshop, I'll cut some kind of plastic box for this and that will double as its front red filter.

author: Macbeth
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 12:35:05 am
content: Looks great, but why no SSeconds? (other than obvious proto board space reason) - I hope you at least pulse the colon at 2Hz or something?

author: klunkerbus
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 01:39:14 am
content: Nearly all of my bench equipment is homebrew. Here's a photo of the PLL synthesizer I built in 1986 with TIL311 displays. I remember how I cringed at what those displays cost me back then, but I'm also still impressed with the professional appearance of them.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 27, 2015, 02:51:42 am
content: Quote from: Macbeth on September 27, 2015, 12:35:05 amif ( (local_seconds % 2) == 0 ) {blah();}yeah, I'm doing the colon heartbeat. pwm ramping up on even seconds and down on odd seconds.reasons I didn't do 6 digits:1) if this experiment was not successful, only 4 leds wasted (since sockets were used, just wiring and time wasted)2) if I lay out a board, I'll do 6. if I hand wire, 4 is enough for a POC3) size; I have lots of those small green boards and I like using them. nice small size4) simplicity. less distracting moving things with the minute changing just once a minute vs the seconds every secondif I layout a board, I might go with pairs of digits on a small board with a single i2c port expander handling those 2 digits. jumper-set the boards and bus them to address strips of the digits. that way, its flexible.

author: neslekkim
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2015, 10:39:43 am
content: Quote from: moff13 on October 15, 2015, 09:19:42 amThanks for the reminder, Are you sending from Ireland?, or Portugal?How much for 50, shipped to Norway?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2016, 12:26:08 pm
content: Quote from: woodchips on September 14, 2015, 07:07:29 pmGood grief, there's even a domain for it.https://til308.com/"watch the actual TL308 you buy tested live on webcam." Wow, you don't get that with buying gold bars even.They seem to be between US$20 to 50 on ebay atm.Hmm. My junkpile turns up 13 of what appear to be TIL308, but are stamped "IEE1706R" on the back. They are out of some military equipment, perhaps a mil-part number for the same thing?Edit: Nope, mine are probably TIL306 not TIL308. According to the pics I found here:http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/tubepage.php?item=33The Vintage Technology Association -- Solid State DisplaysAlso 4 x HP 5082-7414, 1 x HP 5082-7413, 1 HP 5082-7412 & 16 x TIL311

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 04:21:21 am
content: Quote from: TerraHertz on July 25, 2016, 12:26:08 pmHouse numbered parts fromhttp://ieeinc.com

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 05:08:21 am
content: Quote from: moff13 on July 15, 2016, 04:45:21 pmwow you sold over 2,000 ! You should contact that artist who likes to make big visual things. Cristolbol ?Man what a display of 2,000 these would make. Now to look at my wallet

author: bitslice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2016, 01:07:29 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 27, 2016, 05:08:21 amGood for him, maybe Cristolbol can learn to paintQuoteAtrocious?Please do not encourage jobless "artists" to make more crap out of electronics, it is just embarrassing and a waste of a finite resource."Oh look, I made something out of flashing LED's, be amazed at my retarded social commentary on Capitalism and trees or some unrelated hippie shit"The time when the set of Blake's 7 could pass as "art" has long gone.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 01:39:02 pm
content: In the auction description you say 'prices are set, no silly offers please' but then you have the 'make offer' button available!What qualifies as a non-silly offer?

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 02:06:01 pm
content: At the risk of hijacking this thread, I've got 8x DIS1417 displays here if anyone wants them.£20 the lot including signed for delivery! That's £2 each + £4 for RM 2nd class signed for. UK only!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 19, 2017, 06:47:22 pm
content: Quote from: stevelup on September 19, 2017, 01:39:02 pmAny offeroverthe Buy It NowI guess it is possible.

author: woodchips
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 03:26:16 pm
content: At the definite risk of hijacking this thread, I have hundreds of both the TIL311 AND the TIL308. I did go through and test every single one, how found some more. These are all pulls, socketted, from ex-military equipment. Also lots and lots of HP intelligent displays, Nixies, Panaplex and similar, all pulls, these are mosty unsoldered and haven't got round to testing them.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 07:21:01 pm
content: Good for you!

author: edavid
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 07:30:24 pm
content: Quote from: woodchips on September 22, 2017, 03:26:16 pmPlease start a new thread with some details & prices, I'm sure there will be lots of interest.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 22, 2017, 07:31:51 pm
content: Yes, please do!