Nicolet 460 digitizing oscilloscope - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 04:02:36 am
content: I recently came into possession of a non-working Nicolet 460 digitizing oscilloscope. So far, the only information I've been able to find on the internet about it is a spec sheet:http://www.atecorp.com/products/nicolet/460.aspxDoes anyone have pointers to where I could acquire either the user manual or, preferably, the service manual? Or, barring that, know anything at all about the history/functionI'd really like to get this puppy working...

author: Sparc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 08:03:04 am
content: Hi. I don't have a service manual for this scope, but it looks a lot like my Nicolet Pro series scope. I did find the user's manual on the internet for the Pro series. Maybe your 460 is close enough that this user's manual could be helpful.You can download the whole thing as a PDF here:Nicolet Pro Operations ManualWhat is wrong with your 460 scope? I found that Nicolet liked to use tantalum capacitors. Aging tantalum caps tend to short circuit and explode.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 03:50:33 pm
content: I'd start with opening it up and checking the power supply outputs. There is probably a hefty amount of TTL and ECL logic inside so there will be a +5V and a -5.2V. Most likely you'll also find 12V and 24V.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 04:47:48 pm
content: Ugh what an atrocious user interface on those. Ive had to use Nicolet scopes for data acquisition and high speed timing jobs, and it was always a crapshoot on if was set up right. Stuff like "acquisition time" was actually time/div even though the divisions werent shown, etc. Cant remember the details, just the rage. The windows based ones we had werent so bad (not sure if those were still nicolet units or not though )I'd fix it with a hammer, but I might be biased.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 06:09:12 pm
content: Is itthis machine?The Nicolet 460 scope looks very strange...

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 08:09:40 pm
content: I haven't had a chance to pop it open yet, but it doesn't power on, so I'm expecting a power supply issue.

author: Sparc
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 09:13:04 pm
content: Quote from: ConKbot on October 22, 2013, 04:47:48 pmYea, the Nicolet was a bit unusual. Tek, HP, and others consciously emulated the analog oscilloscope conventions with their digital products. On a Tek for example, you select time/division and volts/division. Details like sample rate are selected by the internal firmware.Nicolet seemed to produce a "purist" digital scope. The user has to program the sample rate, full-scale volts, and acquisition length; direct control over the digitizing process. More like a high speed data logger? Dividing the screen with divisions seemed to be an afterthought. I don't know what Nicolet's strategy was. From what I could read on the web, it seemed Nicolet was more popular for scientific and bio/medical applications, less so for EE type applications.

author: ConKbot
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 04:59:36 am
content: Quote from: Sparc on October 22, 2013, 09:13:04 pmMy job was high speed data acquisition, where setting up the acquisition directly was my job and the thing still irritated me, lol. I remember the zoom control being particularly confusing, and I'm sure acquisition length was in samples and not time, so you have to go though and re-check how long its running for each time you tweak the timebase, lest you run short and miss something.I'd rather set up a 64 channel job on the other in-house system we had (32ch/chassis 2MSPS/ch, 20+ filter freqs for each ch, 16 bit, real nice stuff) then use the nicolets. But sometimes fast stuff that needs a real scope happens

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:03:36 am
content: I cracked the chassis open and snapped a few pics along the way. Apologies for the crappy lighting:http://imgur.com/a/MCB1c/embedI didn't spot anything obviously broken, but it has a ton of sub-boards and a CRT assembly, which makes it very hard to get a view of the entire thing. I think my next step will be to measure the outputs of the power supply to see if I'm getting anything at all there.

author: Hydrawerk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:37:41 am
content: Thank you for the photos. Who painted the CRT???Oh, that Nicolet scope has a very low level of integration... So many DIP ICs used. I cannot believe that this was made in USA in early 1990s. The HP 54600 series was produced in the same time. And it was light and compact.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 07:38:20 am
content: Is that Halloween decoration on the CRT?

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 04:39:57 pm
content: I have no idea what happened to the CRT. I'm hopeful that once I had the electronic issues worked out, I can find an appropriate solvent to clean the CRT up.So, I managed to track down what happened to the Nicolet corporation. They were purchased ~2000 by Ling Data Systems, which itself seems to have been split up some time later. The part that used to be Nicolet is now part of HBM Test and Measurement, which makes high-speed data loggers (consistent with how others have described Nicolet's oscilloscopes).On a whim, I shot an email to HBM's support address asking if they still had the service materials for these old scopes. Surprisingly, they got back to me! They don't have any documentation for the 460 in particular, but they believe it was basically the same as the Pro 60, which they were able to give me a service manual for!!

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 05:29:59 am
content: So, I got all setup to start debugging the power supply, when I thought to check the fuse on the mains input. I pulled out the fuse assembly, noted that the fuse filament was in tact, and was just about to put it back in when I noticed there was another fuse on the other side... The assembly was reversible, one side for 220VAC and one side for 110VAC. And it had been set to the wrong one...It starts up and appears to work now. I need to get some probes to really test it with. According to the internal diagnostics, one of the channel vertical knobs isn't working, so I may have to figure out how to repair that as well.

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:26:00 am
content: Well, I made a complete hash out of the Nicolet 460 while trying to repair some of the front panel controls. Since it's made almost entirely out of DIP packaged parts (the hybrid front ends are the only parts with SMD that I've seen so far), I figured I'd salvage what I could out of it. Here's what I've gotten out of a single channel board so far:16 x CXK58257P-70L32KB High-Speed CMOS SRAM32 x 74ACT574PCOctal D-Type Flip-Flop with Tri-state Outputs20 x 74F245Octal Bidirectional Transceiver with Tri-state Outputs1 x MC10H105PTriple 2-3-2 Input OR/NOR Gate1 x MC10H106PTriple 4-3-3 Input NOR Gate5 x MC10H124PDSQuad TTL-to-MECL Translator with TTL Strobe Input6 x MC10H125PQuad MECL-to-TTL Translator2 x MC10H131PDual D-Type Master-Slave Flip-Flop5 x MC10H176PHex D Master-Slave Flip-Flop1 x SN74ALS573CNOctal D-Type Transparent Latches with Tri-state Outputs5 x SN74ALS574BNOctal D-Type Edge-triggered Flip-Flops with Tri-state Outputs1 x SN74AS230NOctal Buffers and Line Drivers with Tri-state Outputs2 x SN74LS245NOctal Bus Transceivers with Tri-state Outputs4 x 74F157APCQuad 2-Input Multiplexer1 x 74F1381-of-8 Decoder/Demultiplexer2 x AD558JNDACPORT Low Cost, Complete µP-Compatible 8-Bit DAC2 x OP227Dual, Low-Offset, Low Noise Operational Amplifier1 x OP27Low Noise, Precision Operational Amplifier1 x ULN2803ADarlington Transistor Array1 x CXA1176KSony 8-bit 300 MSPS Flash A/D Converter2 x LM317 with clip-on heatsinks2 x LM337 with clip-on heatsinks2 x MS8930Unidentifiable?There was also at least one unidentifiable Vishay precision resistor network, as well as a few ICs that I didn't both to pull because they had pins cut off as part of bodges. I have to say that this scope isfullof bodges! There are at least 5 visible bodges on the channel card, and I've glimpse several more (including a DIP package that's been soldered ontopof another DIP package!!!) on the main board.Unfortunately, I didn't think to take pictures as I was going, but if people are interested I can get some shots of the second channel card before I salvage it.

author: resistor
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 24, 2014, 08:40:28 am
content: Also, this think is absolutely jammed with tantalum caps. The only electrolytics I've seen so far are the 10000 uF's in the AC power supply.

author: Klaver
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 16, 2018, 07:38:22 pm
content: Hello Resistor,I also just obtained a Nicolet 460, and contacted HBM to see if they could help me with a service manual. But it turned out they believe to have given their last manual to you. Would there be any possibility for you to create a copy of the service manual?