Advanced hobbyist multimeter? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: boogyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 07:02:37 am
content: I'm looking for a DMM that would suit an "advanced hobbyist". I dabble in electronics, radio control planes, ham, some automotive, and general around-the-house usage. The engineer in me wants to stay relatively cheap, so I can't go breaking the bank on a multimeter (sorry, no Fluke 87V here).After doing some research on typically recommended DMMs, searching around, and using the multimeter spreadsheets stickied in this forum, it looks like the options that would fit my usages best are the Amprobe AM570 ($107), Brymen BM257s ($135), or the Fluke 179 ($260). The specs on all these appear generally the same (to my untrained eye), but the prices are fairly different. Can someone give some advice here? Is there a better recommendation than the ones I've listed here for the usages I have listed above?Thanks for any advice in advance

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:39:45 am
content: FWIW, I am very happy with the Fluke 179 - it's accurate, high quality/durable, easy to read and use, and it's a Fluke - it's all good. I have an Amprobe clamp meter (not the AM570) - it's just "ok". No experience with Brymen. Depends on your specific use - I think you can do a lot with the budget you have in mind ($107-$260) and you might even be able to spend less and get the job done - just depends on what you are measuring.I also have Radio Shack 22-812. It displays pretty much the same measurement units and values as the Fluke (plus a few other units). For $32 including shipping, you could save almost enough over the Fluke to buy an entry level (~$125) power supply, or get 2-3 DMMs instead of one, or just save the $.http://www.amazon.com/RadioShack-46-Range-Digital-Multimeter-Interface/dp/B007ZL0K3E/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1417857700&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=radio+shack+22-812http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc67/67314.pdfIf you get into measuring things you might find that you want at least 2 DMMs and possibly more (so it might make sense to budget accordingly). It's pretty common to want to measure volts and amps at the same time.EF- I was just looking at the Radio Shack 22-812 and noticed it has a duty cycle function. I generally use a scope to test duty cycle so I was curious to see how accurate (relative to the scope) the RS duty cycle measurement is. I built a circuit to control pulses (frequency, duty cycle, amplitude, etc.). On my scope I got a readout of 49.85%; on the RS it said 49.9%. On another reading the scope showed 63.11% and the RS showed 63.1%. The Fluke measures frequency but not duty cycle. On the other hand if you drop a Fluke it will probably survive better than the RS - but for casual use it's probably not an issue. YMMV

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 01:48:33 pm
content: I have an Amprobe 37XRA which is good value for money.http://content.amprobe.com/DataSheets/37XRA.pdfThe Flukes tend to have tighter tolerances and higher CAT-ratings but other than that you're paying for the name really.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 02:44:49 pm
content: Here we go again!You just opened a flood of opinions coming your way. Most of them will be valid and many will conflict.IMHO, the three that you have mentioned will serve you well. Flukes are always pricey for their feature set so I would recommend the Brymen or the Amprobe over it. The Amprobe 37XRA also is a nice meter but AFAIK it suffers from a slow continuity test response and a high burden voltage on the current tests.If you are willing to spend $260 on a meter, then consider the Brymen BM829.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254Does everything that you might want and has the build and safety equal to a Fluke IMHO.It is also known as the Greenlee DM830A and can be had for a good price here if you live in the USA:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenlee-DM-830A-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-1000-Volt-/171561253146?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f1d8f91aThere is also the BM521 for your top price and it has the added feature of internal logging up to 10000 records at up to 20 per second.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM521-Digital-Multimeter-Internal-Data-Logging-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-/171151114301Another thing to consider has already been stated. Two meters are very useful to have. If you want two good general purpose meters than consider the Uni-Trend UT139C. $50, built well and with good input protection, but low specified accuracy and no bar graph, but you could even get 4 of them. Why would you want four meters? Sometimes you want to see input voltage and current and then see the same on the output. Or maybe you want to measure voltage, current, temperature and frequency.The BK Precision meter that Dave had in his $100 shootout would be a good buy too.Other possible recommendations: Amprobe AM-270 or perhaps a UEi DM397http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/uei/digital-multimeters/dm397.htmI have one and had some problems. It is a full featured meter and if you get a good one you would probably be happy. It is a bit slow but it comes with an RS232 data cable and software that doesn't run natively in Win7/8.In the end, my preference would be the Brymen BM829. It is a hard to beat value. The BM257 is also one of my favorites.

author: boogyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 04:35:05 pm
content: I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I don't particularly *want* to spend $250 on a multimeter, but would if the quality and features really warranted it. From the comments so far, it doesn't seem like that's necessarily the case, so I'd prefer to stay in the $150'ish range.I should have mentioned in the earlier post, I've had a $10 radioshack multimeter for about 10 years (model 22-806), but it lacks a lot of basic features. I've been getting by with some rudimentary measurements and hand calculations. The added features coupled with extra precision and accuracy on the newer meters will certainly be nice.At this point, I don't have much need for logging, so I'm leaning towards the Brymen BM257s, Amprobe AM570 or the Amprobe 37XR-A. It looks like they're all pretty similar with the exception that the 37XR-A increases accuracy at the expense of removing temperature functionality (in addition to the continuity/current issues mentioned above). Side note: is temp functionality on a multimeter particularly useful? I also looked at the Greenlee DM830A (I actually saw your same recommendation from a post a couple months ago), but from the pictures it looks like the backlight is considerably washed out whereas on the BM869s, the backlight looks like it is more even.

author: XFDDesign
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 05:05:27 pm
content: I'd say buy a used, working, Fluke 45 which typically can be had for $150-250 (depending on condition). 4.5 Digits, plenty of capability and fits the classification of "advanced" very easily (you can even set it up for automated measurements).

author: kwass
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 05:07:09 pm
content: Quote from: boogyman on December 06, 2014, 04:35:05 pmI have an AM-570 and can assure you that the backlight is fantastic as long as you're looking at the display front on or from below (as usual). The temperature probes that come with the meter (there are two of them) are cheesy but work okay with the included adapter socket. The LED flashlight is useful but not bright. The NCV function works as well as most of the stick-type ones, not very useful I think. The accuracy of my meter is better than the specs indicate (I've got a Fluke 8846 to compare too and many other DMM's). The continuity beep is loud enough and latching, but not all that fast. The Min/Max and Peak Hold functions are nice to have and the relative function displays the offset value as well as the main reading. I do miss not having an auto hold function, but otherwise I like this meter . The overall feel is both very solid and very lightweight, it's rugged.

author: cncjerry
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 08:05:21 pm
content: If you are in the San Francisco Bay area, go get the unused agilent u1252a on Craigslist for $200. That is the best meter for your needs and your $200 bar none.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 08:51:29 pm
content: Quote from: boogyman on December 06, 2014, 04:35:05 pmI have a BM525 which is the same display as the BM829. I do not see any significant difference compared to my BM869.And seriously, I would avid the 37XRA just because of the sow continuity. That would drive me nuts.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:17:03 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 06, 2014, 08:51:29 pmI don't' know what you're talking about. I often use the 37XRA for continuity and haven't had any problems.Sometimes the auto-ranging can be a little slow but that can be avoided by using the manual range.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:19:37 pm
content: I was going from the review that Dave did. If it is fast now then I would buy one.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:34:30 pm
content: I bought a used Fluke 87-III from a guy on eBay about 3 years ago for $179 including shipping. The seller included new fuses, battery, and a brand new set of Fluke probes. The meter is still working fine and I use it almost every day. probably the best money I've spent on a piece of electronic equipment.

author: Retep
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:46:27 pm
content: Besides a couple of other DMMs, I also own a Fluke 179. The Fluke 179 is a well build and very solid DMM with a fast continuity check (which is IMHO very important for it to be useful), but other than that it is quite basic. The Fluke 179 is geared towards electricians; it is less suitable for electronics, for example it lacks a micro amps range (which the Brymen BM257s does have).For professional use the Fluke 179 might the meter you want to have in your toolbox, mainly because of its build quality and confidence factor. For hobbyist use I find too expensive for what it has to offer.

author: kripton2035
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 06, 2014, 09:50:32 pm
content: the fluke 189 has all that lacks the 179 to be fully useful to an electronician...and you can find good deals with the 189 on the bay. just put automatic searches that warns you when there are for sale.

author: techydude
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:10:02 am
content: i bought the Brymen 257 about 18 months ago, been very happy with it.reasonably compact, seems to be in-spec, decent feature list, not too many annoyances.am considering buying another, or its bigger brother.

author: nkw
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 12:25:25 am
content: Quote from: boogyman on December 06, 2014, 07:02:37 amFor what it is worth I was able to recently purchase a brand new Fluke 87V for less ($230) than the price you list for the Fluke 179. It did not come with the original box or the accessories (leads + thermocouple), but was from an authorized Fluke dealer (tequipment). I was able to buy a nicer Pomona test lead set than comes standard with the 87V for a total still less than $260. You might check around both for an open box deal from a Fluke dealer or craigslist/ebay if you are eliminating the 87V solely because of the price.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 01:43:15 am
content: If you're going to use your meter for medium or high voltages in an industrial environment, get a fluke, agilent, etc quality meter. You're paying for a safety rating and it's worth it given the consequences of arc flash. For low voltage DC, that type of protection is just not necessary and it boils down to convenience and usability. I own two Flukes, but would not spend that kind of dough for a 3 1/2 digit meter for low voltage or household duty.For hobby use, get something cheaper with a quick continuity test. Yes, it's the most basic function, but it's a huge annoyance if it's slow. Quality cables with good, interchangeable test clips on a less expensive meter will serve you well. Even Fluke cables will break with frequent use, so budget for the eventual spare set of leads.With the money you save, buy a $40 calibration standard off ebay to check your budget meter periodically.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 02:56:42 am
content: One really good guy to buy from if you want a reliable multimeter test standard:http://www.voltagestandard.comAnd you don't need to play Fluke prices to get a safe meter. The ones I referenced are all more than safe enough for anything a hobbyist would encounter, electronics, wall sockets, distribution panels.

author: nixfu
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 03:25:25 am
content: Personally I think AmProbe, ExTech. and Brymen have the best value for hobbyists right now.I have a Fluke 87 and a Fluke 89 both on the bench, and I bought a Amprobe AM-270 to work alongside them, and I think I like it just as much as the flukes, and there is actually something about it I like a little more than my Flukes. I think its the feel of the dial, I like the dial on the Amprobe better than the Fluke dial.However, I will say that the other day I decided I don't like the tilt stand nearly as much on the amprobe, it does not stand up quite as high as my Flukes, its a bit less solid than the fluke stand, and it leans over a bit more than I want and I find that annoying, but its a very personal thing and each person will care or not about that. Funny, I bet in the board room someone will say "that stand thing is just a piece of plastic, lets cut down on the cost to make that....and its important to me.However, man for only $100 at tequipment.net its a very nice and well built meter for the price that is for sure.http://www.tequipment.net/AmprobeAM-270.html?b=y&v=7665.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 03:53:54 am
content: Keep in mind that Extech has their meters made by others as does Amprobe. The Extech EX series are made by CEM and there have been many reports of bad build quality and quality control.The MM series are made by Brymen, as is the AM-2X0 series and the AM140 and 160. It is speculated that the Amprobe AM5X0 series is made by Uni-Trend.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 04:06:48 am
content: This is the type of probe kit I'd get before I'd spend lots on a meter.http://www.tequipment.net/FlukeTL81A.html?v=7519It may seem like a lot, but save for the leads, it will last for decades. You will enjoy always having the right test probe for the job than a high zoot meter.

author: boogyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 05:28:07 am
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on December 07, 2014, 04:06:48 amThis may seem like a silly question, but are leads like that compatible with pretty much any of the non-fluke multimeters mentioned already (brymen, amprobe, uni-t, etc)?

author: Paul Moir
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 05:49:54 am
content: I love my Fluke 175 for field use (slightly less accuracy, no useless backlight or temperature probe) but it isn't really great for electronics. It's default current ranges are AC amps so you have to switch it to DC after selecting the amps or milliamps range. Also it has no REL or delta function which is a hindrance making low ohms or capacitance measurements. The capacitance measurement range isn't really great but that's true of most multimeters.EDIT: multimeter probes have been pretty much standard since they added shrouds. Should be no problem.

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 07, 2014, 07:10:54 am
content: Quote from: boogyman on December 07, 2014, 05:28:07 amThey're all fairly interchangeable among quality meters.

author: boogyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 04:45:37 am
content: Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone. I tallied up all the suggestions in this thread and it more or less came out even for about 8 or 9 different models.Just as an update, I ended up going with the Greenlee DM-830A deal on ebay because for a rebranded Brymen BM829 at that price, I thought it was the best price to feature ratio.I have a question about the LCD on the Greenlee/Brymen -- when looking at the screen straight on, or from an upward angle, the screen is clear. However, when looking at a downward angle (for example, when the DMM is on the kickstand) the screen looks completely washed out. I've already put in a fresh 9V battery, and that didn't help. Is this poor visual angle normal?Attached some pictures for reference.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 05:01:03 am
content: My UNI-T UT71B at that same angle looks washed out as well but the tilting bail (fully extended) on the UNI-T makes it lay down at about 40 degrees so it's quite readable.Btw nice microfiber towel from CostcoThey are awesome and cheap!

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 05:06:59 am
content: Yes, Brymens do not have good contrast when viewed from above.

author: boogyman
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 05:22:45 am
content: Lol -- I use those towels for everything. Great for washing the car, or for putting stuff on the workbench without scratching itThanks for confirming about the screen angle; just wanted to make sure I didn't get a dud. I'm quite happy with the greenlee so far.

author: GEuser
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 12, 2014, 07:07:19 am
content: One ignored the subliminal programming I see OP .Flukementioned 43 times now44Brymen24 times now25Amprobe20 times now21Extech3 times now4