Adapt resume to each and single prospective client/employer? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 01:32:03 pm
content: I just got his email from a recruiter who has a client who wants to design a battery charger with an Atmel controller. Whether I kindly could change my resume to make it "Atmel-oriented".WTF?There is exactly one project I did years ago in the portfolio section of my resume that was based on a ATmega128 and one other project where I used a tiny13 as a watchdog. I do not even mention that last fast because it's too much detail.I happen to like AVRs and use them in personal projects, so I actually know them quite well. But Atmel have multiple ranges of MCUs that have nothing to do with each other. Apart from having a bit of a headstart/advantage when you have previously worked with a particular MCU range (in this very case, one of the AVR PWM series or the tiny25/45/85 is likely quite suitable because of the high speed PWM), I don't see why it's really that important, to go as far as to emphasise one's complete resume on one particular brand. There are other skills that are more important and relevant (in this case, like knowing about battery charging strategies and switching power supplies).So I mailed him back that he should tell his client they must look at that one project with the ATmega128 to 'prove' I have experience with Atmel.

author: Bored@Work
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 05:26:51 pm
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on December 03, 2012, 01:32:03 pmNo WTF, normal business behavior. Your resume is part of how you advertise yourself to potential employers. It is a good idea to target any kind of advertising to the potential buyer of the wares.If you can't be bothered to fine-tune your resume, especially after getting a hint, you probably aren't much interested in getting a job. And telling a potential employer how they must conduct their search, well ...

author: Ferroto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 05:32:59 pm
content: The best thing to do is to look at the job description and if it emphatizes a specific qualification over others then emphatize that in your resume. Most HR depts nowadays will automaticly screen resumes for a certian amount of required key words before it is even read by human eyes. This is more true of larger companies but even some smaller ones have screening software.

author: ejeffrey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 06:13:34 pm
content: If you use and like AVRs in hobby projects a lot and know them quite well you should include that information on your resume. Especially when you are applying for jobs where that is specifically relevant. I don't understand why you have a problem with that. The job of the resume is to show your employer that you have the skills needed to get the job done, done correctly, and done quickly. Knowledge of the specific microcontroller family or tools is a big clue that you will be able to get things working faster and with fewer mistakes.Since all this seems fairly obvious, can we just assume there is some other reason you have to not like this employer or not want this job?

author: Smokey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 07:06:28 pm
content: This isn't the first time I've heard about a customer requesting some part be used in a design just because they feel like they want it that way with no apparent technical merit considered. I've always felt that as long as the thing meets the specification, reliability, and cost targets you could use anything you want. Maybe something like internal hamsters spinning hamster wheel generators to make the voltage rails. It's a black box as far as the customer is concerned anyway. If they knew how to do it themselves, they probably wouldn't have contracted it out to you, or would at least be able to make informed suggestions.But then again, we are in this business to make some money and if you have to jump through some hoops, there are worse things that could happen.Another thing to consider, is maybe they only have one software guy and all he knows is Atmel. So if they wanted to ever tweak your design that's what their internal guy would understand. That's understandable.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 07:26:02 pm
content: just list all the cpu families you have experience with. that's what i do ... Atmel , Arm , Intel, Microchip ,Motorola, MOS, Mostek, Nios, RCA, Silabs , ST, TI , Zilog

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 08:16:49 pm
content: QuoteI have. Together with what computer languages I worked with, which CAD packages/synthesis tools I used etc.QuoteThere is no job description. What I wrote here is exactly what I got; a battery charger with an Atmel. No more, no list of required skills, no description of what the project exactly entitles, no company information apart from its location, which is 285km away from me; and the expected duration of 3 months.QuoteGood point. Maybe I could add that information. But as I said, Atmel does not necessarily equate to AVRmaybe they want to use the Cortex-M4.QuoteAgreed. Like I said, the headstart/advantage. It could make the difference between two candidates. If only I knew WHAT controller series they want to useQuoteI understand the principle of fine tuning a resume, for example placing the emphasis on the hardware side of things, or the firmware, or PCB design. I've done that before.It just irritates me the recruiter just shamelessly more or less demands me to adapt my resume in some impossible way to some buzzword he picked up, just a brand name without realising I need more information.I've known this guy personally for nearly a decade; despite that he really is a friendly and nice guy to talk to, so far he's been mostly 'vapourware'. Promises you the world, but in the end gets nothing done for you. Other recruiters I work with at least send a complete job description.I'll let him know that I really need more information. It sounds like a nice little project.edit:I just mailed him directly that I need more info on the project. Now let's see what we get back

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 09:10:00 pm
content: Yes, that is standard practice.PITA I know, but worth it.Dave.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 09:37:34 pm
content: QuoteI guess you don't want to have too many conflicting versions of your resume out there, It might get hard to remember what you sent to who.Never had much luck with recruiters though, they match buzzwords but don't really know what they are, then add a large slice to the cost of employing you. I can't see the value.Still I guess it wouldn't take much effort tweak it a bit. good luck.Funny I am working on an Attiny861a battery charger as we speak.I wish I could attach a debugger, my current sense is not working.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 10:39:00 pm
content: QuoteOne of my concerns too. Also the reason I don't want to deal with that many recruitment agencies at a time. I once went to an job application only to find out they received my resume from two different parties. It seems that's regarded as not very professional.QuoteDon't get me started on that! The last one took 35%. Or about an average year salary in revenue for which they basically did nothing for other then shift a bit of money around.When I wanted to follow a €1500 EMC course organized by the client, they outright refused to (partially) pay for it, because I wasn't directly employed by them, but via another company; and as such they regarded me as a business, not a person and their policy was not to invest in businesses. Not even just a third of the cost (cost shared by the client, the recruiter and my real employer), while that €500 it would have cost them was only a tiny fraction of the revenue I generated for them for two years. I decided to never do business with them ever again.Not that I'm against them taking a cut from the hourly rate, we all got to make a living, but it should not be excessive.QuoteYou can, it has debugWire.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 11:12:26 pm
content: but can I debug in circuit?I only have the isp header pins routed out.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 11:14:55 pm
content: Yes, debugWire uses the reset pin as a bidirectional comms pin.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 11:27:10 pm
content: QuoteI must admit I would object to this as they really only should be charging for what they do. So an upfront fee would seem more appropriate.That said you haven't always got a choice, and if some employers only talk through recruitment agencies that are owned by friends of the management, what can you do.QuoteOk I will look into it, I was trying to avoid the debugger as normally I could figure it out just using the cro and I want to move over to Arm Cortex M3, and use that instead.I won one of those energy micro dev boards, it seems to work quite nicely.Sorry no more thread hijacking.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 03, 2012, 11:33:53 pm
content: Big internationally operating companies like Philips don't hire self-employed people directly, the only way in is through a recruitement agency. So they are a necessary evil.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 11:55:55 am
content: Update... job interview time

author: _Sin
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 12:15:11 pm
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 03, 2012, 07:26:02 pmThis might be going off at a tangent, but I hate seeing that on a CV. It tells me nothing other than that a candidate has, at some point, heard of a bunch of stuff.The onus is then on me, as a prospective employer to dig for more detail, which if it's not in the CV, has to be at least a phone interview.I have lost count of the number of candidates whose CV has listed some vital skill for a role I'm recruiting for, only for the candidate in question to barely understand the acronym, let alone have any experience or ability. In some cases they didn't know it *at all* and it was added by the recruiter to get them an interview.To be honest I just don't have the time to filter through all that when there are lots of candidates and a majority are rubbish.*You* might know that all those things you list are things you know in depth, and consider yourself an expert on. But bear in mind that there are 100 other people out there without a bloody clue, who list the same damn things, because their recruiter told them to put them on their CV. Do you want your CV to be lost in a pile of those idiots?I've taken to rejecting any CV that doesn't indicate the skills I'm looking for in the context of an actual job. It doesn't have to be a lot of detail, and a good CV is usually pretty short - but at least listing when and how you used a technology is significantly more useful.Anyway, original poster has an interview, so yay.

author: jeroen74
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 01:30:15 pm
content: I see what you are getting at. It's always useful to hear from the 'other side' and get a view from their perspective; undoubtedly their job is a difficult one too.What I've heard, it isn't always easy either to get clear skills requirements from the client. Endless lists of skills and required knowledge gobbled up by loads of people that each add their tiny little bits to the listsI'd hate it if a recruiter changed my resume. Maybe that's why they insist on an editable format like Word .DOC and not PDF?

author: baljemmett
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 05, 2012, 01:51:47 pm
content: Quote from: jeroen74 on December 05, 2012, 01:30:15 pmI've lost count of the number of times I've heard about people in my industry (IT) discovering the CV that has been sent to prospective employers by recruiters bears little to no resemblance to the original document... I get the impression it's pretty common practice!