Need help! Test bench equipment recommendations. $2k+ budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 12:44:11 am
content: My scenario:Currently a college electrical/computer engineer student wanting to build a test bench for home use for course work, clubs, personal projects, and professional work in the future. Looking to purchase a little bit better than entry level gear for future proofing, quality, and functionally. My current course load is mainly focusing on building simple electronics, making circuits for devices, programming, soldering, measuring, and testing. In the future it will ramp up into analog and digital communications, mircoprocessors, systems analysis, robotics, integrated circuits and devices, feedback control systems to name a few. It will be a wide variety of things and I would like to be prepared to do many of the things at home as hanging out in the college lab after my class is over when other classes are going on isnt really ideal. I also function best during off hours. Plus, the professor doesn't let us take the test equipment home so we must work on anything and everything in the classroom till we get our own equipment at home if we want.What I would like to do is diagnose and repair everyday electronics, make pc parts, make peripherals from scratch that interface with pc and other devices, build and program drones/robotics from scratch, repair pc components on the hardware level, displays, reverse engineer and build/program my own e-vehicle - ebikes, escooter. Networking and some audio, but not really my main focus. Just building, designing, and programming systems from the ground up. Anything with electricity is far game tbh.Future: Which career specialization I plan to go into is all up in the air. It's all really exciting and fun to work on many different aspects of tech right now.At campus we mainly have a lot of tecktronix/keithley and dk precision to work with at each seat:PC's loaded with all the programs.Keithley 2231A-30-3 DC power supplyKeithley DMM6500 Bench DMMTecktronix TDS 2012B OscilloscopeTektronix AFG 1022 Function generatorBK precision's equivalent of items above.Hantech DSO8072E All-in-oneSolmax 456DLX Soldering StationA lot of other specialized equipment in the lab that I'm not in the class yet to use.Cool stuff but out of my price range. I understand that these are more student/lab accurate. Once I find employment I could may get to see better stuff, but I need to keep it somewhat reasonable for now.I have about$2k Budgetfor spending on additional gear right now. I can stretch the budget and can build out more as time goes on.For myDMMI have aFluke 88V(Purchased awhile ago due to needing to work on some car stuff at home. Also seemed like good idea at the time. Ok for now but know its not a true bench DMM).DC Power Supply:purchased theRigol DP832to hack into a832A. Seemed like a solid choice as I wanted a multi channel, linear power supply, programmable, quick adjustability on the fly, and I like buttons and a dial to set. Not building my own rn. Maybe later for a higher voltage from an old pc PSU.(Just ordered so can return if there is a strong argument to get something that performs better, more accurate, has a better price, and functionality. the forums here and the videos on build quality were what lead me to pick this).I have some helping hands, really generic nonadjustable soldering iron, electrostatic mats and a wrist strap, Dremel, power tools, and plenty of manual tools from fixing previous phones, building pcs, daily electronics, fixing my own vehicles, and stuff around the house.Equipment I currently need recommendations for:Oscilloscope,Function generator,soldering stationwith fume extractor,heat gun(for loosening up chips, resistors, capacitors).Recommendations forfutureitems:Bench DMM,Logic Analyzer,Electronic Load, maybe aVector Signal Generator, maybe some other stuff I can't think of right now.I noticed that some oscilloscopes have a few of these capabilities already, some better than others. Some forum posts say its better to get a stand alone unit. Oscilloscope are an old debate and keeps getting brought up over which to get, but I would like help for my current situation. The more I read, the more I get confused on which is a good purchase. I've compared charts and read many posts, but would theRigol MSO 5104(hacked) for the better lead or MSO 5074 be best for my needs? Would theSiglent SDS2104X Plus(hacked) with it's lower front end noise be better for my application? It's a hefty 1000-1300$ investment and trying to cover all my bases with this to last a long time. Both having waveform generators and some ability to logic analyze. I'm fine with recommendations for other brands, models, products. 1500$ is the most I can justify for a oscilloscope since if it's good, I can use it for a lot of different things, but need to leave some money for the other things I need right now. Prob stressing over this topic for no reason and prob overkill.Should i shoot for a lower cost oscilloscope, and get a better for a logic analyzer to hook up to a pc, and save the rest for other equipment that pops up?No idea what is highly recommended for asoldering stationorheating gunfor electronics. Saw a few videos of some really cool solder vacuum which would be nice to clean up my messes. Advice from you readers who use these daily would be more knowledgeable.I haven't started looking into afunction generatorto balance with the other purchases.Very open to good suggestions about solid bench DMM as I'll prob get one sooner than later.Any other recommendations for future tools for the bench would be much appreciated too!Thanks for reading and for any suggestions!

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 02:52:17 am
content: Fellow college student here, just about to finish my undergraduate degree and have built up quite a lab throughout my studies. My home lab have allowed me to build projects for school, my robotics club, start a tech company (now defunct) and got a EE part time job working from home. I'd say it is well worth investing in a good home lab, it allows you to hone your skill as an engineer and brings you so many opportunities.My advice is to start with a modest set of equipment and slowly build your collection out. You will know what gear you NEED when you actually need it, and when you don't know what you need, just spend the money on the basics to get you going, and keep the money for later when you need to spend the big bucks for specific equipment. For example, if you later go the embedded route, you'll probably need to spend on a J-Link, a logic analyser, power profiler, high speed probes etc. If you go for RF stuff, you'll need a spectrum analyser, vector network analyser, precision hot tweezers for tweaking 0201 passives etc. Go power electronics? You will need current probes, diff probes, high power supplies, fire extinguishersetc. Point is, it is hard to tell what route you'll end up going, so it is harder still to say how to spend your money right now.Also allocate a chunk of budget for a good collection of components, having parts handy allows you to build out prototypes and test ideas much faster! I think 30% to 40% of my lab's worth is in components. Have a collection of opamps (fast ones, low noise ones, high power ones, low drift ones...), have a collection of passive components from through hole to SMD, have a collection of BJTs and MOSFETs for signal and power stuff, the list goes on and on.Can't tell you exactly what gear to buy, as it is your money not mine, and different people have different priorities and quality standards, but I can tell you my journey.For oscilloscopes I started with a DS1052E I think 8 years ago, sold it and swapped it for a DS1054Z and swapped it again for a SDS2074x Plus hacked to 500MHz, paid a bit over 1k USD for it. If you are entering the market now, I really suggest you look for a scope that can do bode plots, you'll learn a hell lot from it (power supply stability analysis, filter response, component characterisation etc.). Bandwidth is not as important as one think, rarely do I measure stuff up to 100 MHz, and for the rare case I need high bandwidth (high speed digital, RF etc.), even 500 MHz on my current scope won't cut it.Function generator is something I don't use too often, and for years I was happy with a 20 MHz second hand Rigol DG1022 I got for less than 100 USD. It is until recently I wanted to do bode plots up to 100 MHz, that I ordered a SGD2042x that I plan to hack to 120 MHz. A function gen is not something I use daily, unlike my scope, soldering gear etc.Soldering station really depends on what you can tolerate I think. Personally I love soldering and I sometimes just solder for the sake of doing it to enjoy a zen moment. I have around 5kg of the best quality silver loaded, leaded, multicore solder on hand in case they ban the sales of the leaded stuff. Like most people I started with a crappy non adjustable plug in iron, upgraded a few times and in the process have tried crappy chinese stations, Hakko Fx-950, Goot Rx-802, chinese JBC knock-off, built my own Weller RT station. What I finally settled on is the Metcal mx-5200 with the standard and ultrafine hand pieces, and a second hand Metcal mx-500 with the Hakko fx-1003 precision hot tweezers. IMO the Metcal induction system is the best performer, period. The heat recovery is second to none, the tip to grip distance and ergonomics is simply the best. I consider it to be my endgame. Could I have settled on the Hakko Fx-950? Of course, but I'll admit I am a snob when it comes to soldering, and I have probably spent to much on soldering gear, but no regrets so far.For hot air stations I found the stations with the fan built into the stationary unit performs the best, as opposed to having the fan in the handpiece. I owned the Quick 957DW, loved the simplicity and performance. Later upgraded to the classic 861DW when I had a project involving copper core PCBs. I still miss the UI (knobs) of the 957DW.I grew up with asthma so fume extraction is a must for me. I have a Quick 6101 fume extractor and it does the job. Also stole my mum's dyson air purifier fan and placed it on my work bench, it works well.Bench DMM is something nice to have, but not really necessary. I think universities prefer them as it is harder for students to steal them. I have a 2nd hand Keithley 2000 but it does not get used as often as my Brymen 869s by far. You rarely need the extra digits.For logic analysers I have a DS lab logic analyser, it is the best bang per buck till this day I think. But once again, I rarely use it. If you have a software issue, a debugger (e.g. J-Link) is way way more useful. If I suspect there's some issue in hardware, I use my scope to check for SI issues at the same time. I'd say a logic analyser is not essential for most work. A 4 channel scope and a suitable debugger (depending on what architecture of chips you work with) should be your priority.Electronic load I have a used 150W unit made by Array, it draws current, it does it's job, but I don't use it often not because it does not perform well, but a electronic load is not always the right load for the job. If I want to test a DUT under load for EMC, I don't use my mains connected load as it messes up the reading. For testing transient response of power supplies, most electronic loads are not fast enough, and you'll probably roll your own dynamic load. What I often fall back to a just a big old 200W pot, it does not oscillate, it does not inject noise into your circuit, it is floating, it is simple and it works.Hope I have helped a bit in your purchasing decisions, I can talk about this stuff all day ahaha.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 03:53:06 am
content: @TopQuark, you've definitely gave me a great place to start! I agree it's still a little early to think about investing big into purchases, but also see the value in skipping over the cheapest alternative and grabbing something a little better to last like some of the items you've currently are using. Does seem like many different items to invest into and may fall into a similar path of joining up with my robotics club, collecting enough equipment to put my skills to use for money on the side, and hoarding a little bit of everything. I do get the feeling regardless what I buy now, it'll never be powerful enough to handle everything. Looking up some of the devices for the areas you mentioned is going to get expensive really quick! Luckily I have a fire extinguisher already and can cross that off my list.Since you've settled on the SDS2074x plus I can be confident I wont need to trade out for a long time if I get a similar tier like that. I agree it's overkill for me right now and should invest in the other equipment as things pop up. Will put a little more research and emphasis in finding a product with good bode plotting. Function gen will be a lesser purchase since I won't need to go very high frequencies for a while. I'm thankful you pointed out the tips with the soldering station. Coming to the realization now, many going into tech will be spending a lot of time with one and I over looked hot tweezers completely!Quote from: TopQuark on March 28, 2022, 02:52:17 amCan you recommend a few decent debuggers for typical in use architectures or is there some that may be versatile?Quote from: TopQuark on March 28, 2022, 02:52:17 amIt is so much fun checking out all the gear, but when it's time to buy and settle on just one thing out of everything, the choice gets hard the more you look at it! There is really so much to choose from!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 03:58:10 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 12:44:11 amSure, we'd love to spend your money for you! But I'd spend some time reading some past discussions so you can understand the pros and cons of each model, there have been extensive discussions about most of these. My picks are:Scope: Siglent SDS2104X+ for many reasons, but of course it isn't perfect. SDS1104X-E is also an excellent budget choice, but don't bother with the logic probe feature.FG: Siglent SDS2042X w/ hack. The SDS2104X+ has a basic FG built in, so you might not even need an FG right now. Feeltech FY6900 also works if you don't mind the toy-like quality and the need for some easy modifications.Soldering station: Hakko FX888D is the minimum, IMO. It works, they have a nice selection of tips. Next up is the very nice Pace ADS200B, also IMO. Consider hot tweezers later (expensive) and make your own fume extractor.Hot air station: I have an ultra-cheap Sumsour (generic) 858D that works for small and medium stuff. If you want to spend a bit more, perhaps the Atten ST-862D. I'd also recommend a desoldering vacuum of some sort. I have the Hakko FR-301, but it isn't cheap. Pro's Kit and others make some less expensive ones that apparently work just fine.QuoteBench DMM: Fluke 8846A. I'm probably theonlyperson who will recommend that and most would consider it outdated and way too expensive--and that's probably true. You'd have to use one on a daily basis to appreciate it.Logic Analyzer: I have the logic probe for the SDS2104X+ and I often need to correlate analog channels to the logic ones. A separate PC-based one might be handier for other things.VSG: Those get quite expensive, have a look at Signal Hound.

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 04:21:07 am
content: SDS2074x plus (cheaper still, only available in my neck of the woods) / SDS2104x plus is definitely a good buy, think it is the cheapest way to get a 500 MHz bandwidth new scope. The last Rigol scope I had, the 1054z, was really laggy and the software was rarely updated, it really left a sour taste in my mouth. Seeing all the software issues that plague the MSO5000 and the high noise floor made me turn away from Rigol. All the recent purchases (scope, func gen, spectrum analyser) I made was from Siglent, very happy with them so far. My boss at work was so impressed by the Siglent scope that we bought them for work. The only Rigol gear I still own is the DP832.The used equipment market is quite fluid, especially in your part of the world, I wouldn't worry too much about starting modest and selling stuff once your needs out grow it. I had no trouble selling my previous scopes.I work on ARM cortex-M (STM32, NRF52, EFM32, SAMD51 etc.) exclusively, and I recommend the J-Link from Segger, it is the least pain in the a** to work with, and the software that works with it (Ozone) is really powerful. If you want to stay completely open source or program in Rust, the Black Magic Probe is a good alternative though less powerful.edit:If you go with the Siglent SDS2104x plus, you can make a DIY logic probe for cheap (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/), so you don't even need to buy a logic analyser. Also, the scope has a built in AWG as mentioned, and can do bode plots up to 50 MHz.

author: JimLev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 04:30:46 am
content: I’ve got a signal generator and frequency counter listed for sale if your interested.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-used-bk-1805-precision-80mhz-freq-counter/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-used-exact-electronics-122-waveform-generator/

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 05:14:09 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 03:58:10 amI was very curious about the other functionality of the oscilloscopes as it not normally covered much in threads. I appreciate reinforcing to go with siglent on this topic. The more I dig deeper into older posts I start to develop a bias against one over time and then second guess it wondering if would be for my case! The use cases tend to be very specific to pick the rigol, but since I shouldn't worry too much about some edge in the logic and sampling area, the cons over shadow it too much making siglent a better over all experience I'm guessing? I'll now need to choose between the sds2104x+ and the sds1104X-E!I'm going to save the SDG2042x in a shopping cart right now so I don't have to think about it once the situation I need it for comes occurs.Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 03:58:10 amI was at a loss when it came to this as I just started watching videos on the topic and haven't been able to narrow down brands to settle on! I'll be starting some heavier soldering projects in 2 weeks so can't thank you enough for the suggestion. I've always have had trouble with old solder sticking on the boards when trying to fix or salvage parts.Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 03:58:10 amIt looks to be a beauty and really like the fluke devices I've had a chance to use so far. I do love the ease of use so can totally see why you'd recommend it! I'll try to shoot for something close to it if I'm able to pull a few extra shifts at work. Is there a similar model but a step down that is comparable? I'm seeing now how small it can detect! Justifies the price!Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 03:58:10 amYou mentioned not to bother with the logic probe of the sds1104x-e, but is the probe on the SDS2104X+ still recommended to use? topquark was saying the same to get a pc interface for the logic part as well. Some forum posts says it's easier on pc due to the memory needed, the processing power needed, and ease of use when using with mouse and keyboard, am I on the right track about that?_________________________________________________________________________________@ TopQuark So glad you've had more in-depth and experience use with multiple companies and products. I'm happy you like the using the devices. This will save me from a lot of buyers remorse in the future!Quote from: TopQuark on March 28, 2022, 04:21:07 amHow is this holding up and you experience with it? I just ordered so I could cancel if there is any gripes.Not a lot of great prices for second hand equipment in my current location which why I'm not sure about the viability of selling. Not sure if these equipment hold their value enabling me to trade up eventually.Quote from: TopQuark on March 28, 2022, 04:21:07 amSegger was the company popping up in every search I was doing! I do prefer something that is a little less of a headache but I guess it depends on how locked down the features are. If those are open source I dont mind giving them a try. Would be nice if i could under some of the language in the coding to mod when needed. I may have to learn more than c/c++.Quote from: TopQuark on March 28, 2022, 04:21:07 amTHIS! I'm all about doing this. The few hundred just for an adapter seemed a little steep! Thanks for the addition feedback and link!________________________Do you mind me asking how were your experiences hacking the firmware? Found a really simple up to date guides. Were keygens best if you tried them?

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 05:21:14 am
content: Quote from: JimLev on March 28, 2022, 04:30:46 amI think I'm in the same boat as you wanting something that can create higher frequencies around 10MHz to get used to working with Arduinos. How are you liking the new siglent you got to replace it?TBH, I'm not sure what to do with a freq counter. I appreciate the suggestion!

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 05:45:41 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 05:14:09 amYeah. They really are two different scopes in many ways--perhaps cousins, not siblings. The 2014X+ is very nice, but the price difference is also huge. I have both (I upgraded) and honestly either of them work fine 99% of the time.QuoteThere's the 8845A, which is slightly less accurate, lacks the capacitance range, the 1G-ohm range, 1000VAC and some other stuff I can't remember. There is much more competition at that level. You probably want to read a lot of spec sheets and ask more questions before you pull the trigger on something like that.QuoteI think it is worth it, but I got the whole kit on sale. The set of grabbers alone almost made it worth it. As for using a PC logic analyzer, I'm not an expert in that area but I suspect if you do a lot of that stuff you will want both a scope-based and a PC-based logic analyzer.

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 05:57:43 am
content: The DP832 is ok, been using it for a few years. I think the leakage current has crept up through out the years, starting to become an issue, think maybe some of the components have degraded a bit. Noise spec and load transient performance is good, though not a big fan of the 1000uF cap right at the output needed to keep it in spec. The big cap affects how quickly the power supply can switch from CV mode to CC mode. The DP832 has issues but not enough for me to look elsewhere for alternatives. I might build my own power supply if I find enough time to do it. For powering digital stuff, it works just fine. For sensitive analog stuff I fall back to batteries, though I am not sure if other power supply options are free of the issues I have mentioned.Segger offers an EDU version of their J-Link debugger, which works fine other than an annoying pop up reminding you not to use it for commercial purposes when you plug it in. The J-Link does work with languages other than C/C++, but their software Ozone don't work that well outside of C/C++. If you use GDB based software (e.g. cortex debug for vscode) with your J-Link, it works fine with whatever weird and wonderful language you wish to program in, but I digress.As for logic analysers, I haven't put in the trouble to make my own logic probes for the scope yet, though I might do in the future. TBH having 4 channels is already enough for most bus decoding I need to do. If I need more than 4 channels, I much rather look at the data on a big PC screen rather than on my scope screen. Just personal preferences, not that I have the need to use a logic analyser often.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 06:22:36 am
content: Guess the final verdict for an oscilloscope will be theSiglent SDS2104x+. Currently looking for a deal on it and amazon doesn't have anything special for it and I think I saw some people mention tequipment gives deals or something for being in this forum. I have to see if I can find the post about it They are the only ones actually fulfilling on amazon. Hopefully I can find a bundle with the logic analyzer. Personally it's not going to be needed for a few months, but will be nice to use when more of the print on chips rub off and I have no idea what does what anymore.QuoteWhat type of bundle were you able to find on this? Were the grabber, plugs, and scope and all in one group?Do you have some recommendations on the probes to use once *updated?I will need a little bit of time to brood over the level of DMM as I wont need that level of precision for a few years.QuoteI think it's going to be a challenge to find anything that doesnt have quirks around that price range.. I was interested for the timer ability to charge a few odd devices and to set different charging profiles. I guess it can be a overly expensive battery tender so i can use those on the more delicate things.I gotta admit, I love the ability to pull up information on a bigger screen. My eyes get enough of a work out squinting to read the model numbers on things to get the right data sheet.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 06:41:44 am
content: Saelig offer 6% for members. Hunt out their discount thread and ask for the code.SLA2016 was on special with a new scope for 2021 but no longer unless you can find some in stock that haven’t yet sold. There was a free options promo bundle last year too and if lucky you can still find one.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 06:51:55 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 28, 2022, 06:41:44 amThanks for the tips! Was just on the site, but was seeing a similar price to everywhere else. I'll double check to forums again for a recent post!I've seen your helpful advice all over the place!

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 07:26:02 am
content: Bummer they arent running a deal anymore nor was able to find that discount. Sent them a message to see what they were able to do. Never ordered from Saelig, so we'll see what happens. Now I can focus on picking out the other gear mentioned..

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 07:36:54 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 07:26:02 amYeah it was a hot deal and a shame it had to end.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 08:12:12 am
content: Power supply: look at the GW Instek gpp-4323 It is better (features and ease of use) compared to what Rigol and Siglent offer.Bench DMM: if you don't need high accuracy, then look at the Vici VC8145 (4.5 digits). I have two sitting on my bench for over a decade and they have been sitting on my bench longer than anything else. All other equipment got replaced.Signal generator: SGD2042x is nice but does have its shortcoming especially when you want to do precision time / frequency stuff using an external reference. Maybe opt for a cheaper model and save up for something better.Soldering iron: don't save money here. Stay clear of JBC and Weller though; their tips are so bad (not picking up solder and impossible to get going again). Personally I have great experience with soldering irons from Ersa. Their tips just won't go bad.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 08:50:16 am
content: If I were to live in USA and equip a test bench, I'll buy second hand 30-50 years old instruments. USA seems to have plenty of these on Ebay and Craiglist at affordable price, while their performance are still on par with the current top notch research instruments (the old ones have better performance than any average grade brand new instruments of today, while the SH are 10-100 times cheaper).Apart from the recommended instruments in that list, you may want/need to also have:- 2 x SMU (4 quadrants power supply and active load)- RF generator- VNAThe fume extractor is useless, unless you solder 24/7 in a very small room and without windows, but whatever.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:09:17 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2022, 08:12:12 amWOW! Really went under the radar for me. This GW Instek gpp4323 even has 4 outputs! Readback resolution and ripple noise is better too! This really has some impressive specs. It is loads ahead of the others from performance. Screen looks great and seems to have pretty similar settings. How has this model held up for you if you currently have one?I would prob need to save a little on the DMM and I was thinking of maybe skipping the sgd2042x for the time being if the oscilloscope I am waiting for quotes back has a functional one for the time being.What would be a great reference point for a higher end signal generator? Do you mind me asking which projects were you working on that would help syncing with other devices? I may go budget option till I find myself needing the higher precision work.This week will be spent digging back into the forums and watching reviews on soldering irons and work stations as it's a topic I need to make sure I get something decent to make life easier!Quote from: RoGeorge on March 28, 2022, 08:50:16 amSecond hand local listings didnt have many hits, but seems the north part of USA from the ebay listings seem to have better hits on ebay. I'll refer back it to and see if I can snag a deal! I'm not too knowledgeable about older reputable brands. Would be nice to have some equipment is like a tank and never die.Quote from: RoGeorge on March 28, 2022, 08:50:16 amI may have prematurely purchased the previous power supply and will find out more about 4 quadrant power supply. Seems a lot more functional than a normal dc power supply. RF generator and VNA are on next years wish list!

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:23:49 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 09:09:17 amI don't own one myself. Keysight was ahead with releasing the E3631x series power supplies so I got one of those but if I had to buy a power supply today, I likely end up with buying the GPP4323.BTW: the GPP4323 can act as a DC load as well!QuoteI ended up buying a Tektronix AFG31000 series (business purchase). It is a 'used' unit from a test equipment dealer but the one I got was like brand new in the box with several years of manufacturer warranty left.Some of the projects I work on involve high accuracy (picosecond level) time transfer where a signal generator must be locked to an external reference precisely (zero frequency offset) in order to create predictable & repeateable offsets / drifts.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:35:36 am
content: Built in gen in SDS2000X+ has only one ch, smaller maximum output signal level etc.It is very basic AWG that is great in a pinch and mostly useful for Bode plot, because it's all in one...SDG2000X might be a good match for you.2CH is useful any time you need to create two signals at the same time.AWG is a laboratory instrument that doesn't have predefined use. It's more of a universal building block you can use in many ways for your experiments.I have DP831A from Rigol and it has good performance as PSU. Noise is much less than specified, and works well. I has a problem with overvoltage protection that is basically useless. It is done in software, it takes good fraction of second to kick in (as in too late) and is even so stupid that it will let you enable channel with voltage set higher than OVP limit, it will enable that high voltage on output, burning everything connected for 200 ms and then software will disable it. It would be trivial for software to recognize you want something not allowed and simply refuse to enable channel with error message. Also it will let you raise output voltage higher that OVP limit hile output is enabled. It will also let you type in 30V with 3,5V OPV limit set. And it will happily raise output to 30V and 0,2 s later it will disable output with OVP message. With smoke coming out of anything connected. Instead just simply refusing to set anything over set limit. So I treat it as if it doesn't have OVP (because it doesn't).

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:48:34 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2022, 09:23:49 amThis will be very helpful and is potentially saving me from needing to purchase a separate active load.Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2022, 09:23:49 amThe Tektronix are seemly becoming a more worthy investment to last over time if I can swing a few more funds into it. I'm gonna have to rethink the used test equipment dealers have as I've always thought most industries would have put the instruments through their paces. Have you also had good luck other purchases?____________________________Quote from: 2N3055 on March 28, 2022, 09:35:36 amI didn't know that the SDS was crippled in that feature! I'm seeing where a lot of differences are beginning to matter and stay budget oriented and get a device for each specific use case and then go in for higher end equipment when needed in professional setting where precision and accuracy is of a higher importance! Talking these nuances out are helping me see not to go over board on at this moment.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:58:44 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 09:48:34 amWell you need to start reading datasheets and compare.But my best advice is to not buy equipment for what may be but for what you really need.You have a multimeter, PSU, get a scope (SDS2104X+ is a good choice) and then stop..Put money on the side and wait for the need. And also, in USA, you can get all kinds of used PSU that might be used but still OK for very little money. Also other equipment.But you need to have few hundreds at a ready to jump in when opportunity presents..Also, when in uni lab, pay attention what you use most on which projects... make note..

author: AVGresponding
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 10:02:34 am
content: You might want to consider a used Metcal soldering station. There's plenty of them about, and their performance is going to be better than an FX888, even if it's a real one, which is by no means guaranteed. There are tons of fake FX888/951 out there, and they're getting harder to spot.

author: JimLev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 01:21:19 pm
content: At first I was concerned about buying Siglent products as they are made in China, but then I found out there was US (Ohio) tech support And a 3 year warranty. I spoke with a few of them and decided to go with Siglent.The SDM3055 is great, not sure I’ll need everything it can do however it’s there if I need it.A few weeks ago I ordered the SDG1032x, love it.Last year I was at an estate sale and pick up a Tektronix TDS3054B 500MHz DPO with all 4 probes and the battery for $250. It’s also has way more functions than I’ll probably ever need.The Siglent equipment doesn’t come with a complete manual, you can download them as well as the service manual (100+pages).I had them printed and then put them in 3 ring binders. I prefer paper, I can put notes in them.I looked at the DP832, 3 outputs is nice, is 3 amps really enough?

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 01:50:03 pm
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 06:22:36 amThere was a promotion that included the logic probe kit, MSO license and AWG license for $1521 after 6% EEVBlog discount but before tax. Now the scope and logic probe kit together would be $1662 and the licenses are hackable so far. Hackability is what makes the SDS2104X a good deal, without that there would be a lot of licenses to buy.You don't need any new general-use probes, the originals work fine at 200MHz+. Beyond that with general-purpose high impedance probes is problematic and I'd not worry about it until you have a specific need.Where you're at, I wouldn't spend the money on a high-end DMM either. There's been endless discussion on this issue over the years and you have many options. Used equipment used to be a good way to go, but prices have gone up and good deals are much rarer these days. It wouldn't hurt to look around, but be wary. One DMM feature you won't get on low-to-mid end units is high input impedance--and once you figure out why that is important, you'll want it.

author: maglin78
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 04:14:54 pm
content: I'm in the same bout when it comes to building a home lab except I'm just an average person that loves to build various electronics projects. I went with the following equipment to get the best bang for the buck and figure if I need to upgrade later I can do so and be able to sell my current gear for probably 75-80% of what I got into them.Scope: SDS1104X-E - I hacked it to 200mhz/wifi/awb/mso along with getting a set of 200mhz probes. As stated earlier you probably won't need more than 100mhz of front end bandwidth and if you do you'll probably need a lot more. I found this scope as a return that was 20% off so I couldn't pass it up. It's great having it connected to wifi so I can view on a 43" monitor that I have on my PC.Benchtop DMM: VC8145 (I also have a fluke 88) - It's pretty much the goto cheap DMM that is good enough for most things people want to do. You can get into a big hole to spend money on a DMM. Good idea to maybe get a set of probe masters leads to speed up capacitance measurements.AWG: SDG2042X - Easy to get upto 120mhz output with enough options to probably work for a very long time. Also integrates with the Siglent scope easily.PSU: Currently still looking for a good option, but I have one I built a few years back that is good enough currently.Soldering Station: Aixum T3A 245 JBC clone - Price is good and uses JBC carts and performance is close to the JBC. For the price it's a very good station that will handle 99% of what you will need.Hot Plate: MHP30 Mini 65W - Small but big enough for lots of small projects.Hot Air: Quick 957DW+ 580W - it decent but on larger copper it shows it's lack of power. I wish I had gotten Quick 861DW 1kw station as it would have the needed power for any removal of components.That is what I have so far and been working on my lab for a few years, but I think you could get all these items close to your budget you have now. I'm not an EE so I don't have lots of experience with advanced functions and what not. I poured over many threads and took the advise usually given which is usually (get what you can afford now and once you NEED something better get it then). That is what I plan on doing. I just need a PSU/Load to complete my home lab. Wish I had a lot of sage advise for you but all I can do is share the route I've gone. Good luck.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 09:15:59 pm
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 28, 2022, 06:22:36 amI've got that Siglent scope, and it's fantastic. My only real complaint is that it can be pretty unresponsive to the front panel controls under some circumstances, but the touchscreen makes up for a lot of that.I strongly recommend buying from a reputable vendor like Saelig, because (unlike Amazon, once you get beyond the 30 day return window at any rate) they will be willing to support you after the sale. Fortunately, Siglent is (unlike Keysight) willing to work with individuals for warranty claims and repairs in general, but even so, I'd go with a reputable vendor for any $1K+ piece of gear. Put another way, if it's something you can't sink the replacement costs for, you should buy from a vendor that will support you long after the return period expires and even after the warranty expires.With respect to the Instek GPP-4323, that thing is $700! That's quite expensive for a hobbyist power supply, particularly given that it can't supply more than 3 amps per output channel (two channels can, of course, be combined, but at the loss of a channel). Unless you need very advanced power supply capabilities, I'd stick with supplies like the Korad KA-3005D (or the KA-3005P if you need programmability). It's inexpensive ($110 at Amazon for the 3005D), has low ripple due to being a linear supply, has good turn-on and turn-off characteristics (e.g., minimal overshoot), has memories, has the usual current and voltage limiting and protection, has milliamp current resolution, has a floating negative terminal (so you don't risk ground loops) and a separate ground terminal, and is solid. You're better off getting multiple supplies than a single one unless you need to be able to turn on multiple supply rails within milliseconds (or less) of each other. Since you're just starting out, keep it simple and get one of these.If you need a power supply witha lotmore power output, you can consider assembling a Riden-based (e.g., the RD6006) switching power supply, but be warned that its protection capabilities aren't likely to be anything as good as the Korad's. The Riden-based supply isn't what I'd buy for the first supply, and is instead something I'd buy only to supplement a good linear supply like the Korad.As with so many other pieces of gear, you're better off being minimalistic with respect to the power supply, getting something inexpensive but good, and going with something premium like the Instek only if/when you find you need the capabilities that are unique to it.I'd say the same about a waveform generator. Stick with the one built into your scope first, and only if that doesn't do what you need it to do should you consider getting anything more.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:37:32 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on March 28, 2022, 09:15:59 pmYes and no. Getting a cheap tool can be a good way to figure out whether it is usefull but getting a high quality tool makes work more enjoyable (cry once, smile forever).For something basic like a PSU I think getting a more expensive one pays off and it also has more features like parallel / series / tracking operation.For more complicated and less versatile equipment it can help to get something cheap first. Like the Nano VNA to get some hands-on experience with a network analyser.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:42:49 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 28, 2022, 11:37:32 pmVery true, but getting an expensive tool that turns out not to be high quality can really suck, especially if you don't realize it soon enough to return it.

author: TopQuark
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 28, 2022, 11:50:36 pm
content: Despite the quirks of the DP832, it is good enough for what I would expect a lab power supply would do, and it is a good middle ground for a general purpose power supply.If a project requires really special power supply requirements (power sequencing, no ground loops, ultra low noise, many weird supply rails), building the power supply will be part of the project anyways, and I only use the DP832 as a safe 12v supply with a panel meter most of the time.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:04:24 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 11:42:49 pmI only had that problem (expensive mistakes) with Siglent equipmentExpensive does not equal high quality though.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 01:28:08 am
content: Saelig got back to me and gave me the code . Takes a nice chunk off from the overall price!Only downside is they have it for sale on the website, but is out of stock. No listed eta so not sure what to do with that.Taking all the helpful info when visiting the lab today let me see how far I should really be going with some of the equipment.Quote from: JimLev on March 28, 2022, 01:21:19 pmIf I'm correct running in parallel would push out a little more.QuoteYou are correct about currently not needing anything very advanced or under 1mV/1mA accuracy or read out. I did like that option about already having 4 output channels and an active load. Seeing that 700$ price tag after taking inventory of the minimum requirements necessary for home project use, I am very much eyeing the Konrad-3005p as it will handle most things for the rest of the year. Having programmability would be something great to have to test projects for hitting it with different power levels to see how it behaves or the ability to set timers and not needing to be around. Current reviews have been showing the Korad devices previously burnt up on eevblog have been fixed redesigned and with beefier parts. If that does the job for the next few years, I may just design my other supplies going forward or pick up another korad if it works as well as I'm seeing.QuoteWas my thinking as well for a decent all-rounder. I may just save the difference or going all in and never think about needing another supply or load for a very load time. A little heavier up front, but does sound appealing since you arent completely thrilled with the 832->832A*. Prob going to be one of the most used equipment. The power supply for projects is always a requirement, but we have the options most times to have it battery or from an ac source. We do get let off easy some times with the ability to just buy the psu ac to dc with a converter in it to let us focus else where.I don't need a DMM better than 6.5 digits as it would be better than the equipment on campus. Will skip for now till I find a good deal on a respectable bench DMM. I believe during the holidays tends to have a lot of discounts or will stay focused on ebay for a nice second hand piece of gear.QuoteWhich situations cause it to lag? Is it a lag or just doesnt work at all? For what it can do, I completely ok with a little bit of slowness at times when doing hard tasks. I'm not able to find any deals on the logic analyzer adapter, but I think I'll make my own. One of the tutors at school today were showing me a kit he bought that you let you make your own for low price under 25$ Came with a lot of different ribbons, ends, and plugs. Will still need to buy a few nice cutters and crimper to make the task easier. Can never have enough tools so that route seems the most viable. 1/5 of the price even if I go over board with them! I'll need that kit anyways when robotics kicks in. Perfect solution.Quote from: bdunham7 on March 28, 2022, 11:42:49 pmI cancelled one of my orders last night to make sure I didn't get into this situation. Buyers remorse is the worse especially when all the other purchases rock!Went dont the rabbit hole this morning with soldering stations! I see need for better equipment here as some of todays work didn't have wedged tips leads half of the lab fighting making connections on the perf boards. Not having a desoldering gun or solder sucker was a nightmare too. Humbled me really quick.QuoteWe actually don't have one in our lab. Seems like a very convenient item to have. Is it just a prepping surface to use at the very beginning? How would you effective utilized this after a few components are already soldered?Getting at least an 1k watt hot air station looks to be the consensuses the more I look at these products.How is the customer support with quick's stations? I watched louis rossman's head to head comparison between that and the attn. Amazon looked to have a flood of knockoffs and I may have to stick to brands mentioned here and on the forum for a quality device.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 01:34:43 am
content: Please do not show the Saelig code online for nonEEVblog members to use.Remove it immediately please.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 01:37:32 am
content: Edited! Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 02:38:08 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 29, 2022, 12:04:24 amDo tell. You appear not to like them and you may have valid reasons, but I can't think of anything Siglent has that can reasonably be called 'expensive' for what it is.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 02:48:26 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 29, 2022, 01:28:08 amAfter 14 or so Red Bulls, some people--the ones that text at 2000 thumbstrokes per minute--blow a gasket if their chosen device of the moment doesn't properly buffer and respond instantly to the 700 tasks they've jammed into it. Those are the people that complain about 'slow' or 'laggy' UIs. Now to be fair, the menus and controls on some of the non-A-brand scopes are a little funky. The most famous are the multipurpose control knobs that sometimes require you to spin them for what seems like 1000s of turns to make and adjustment and then won't hold still while you press them. I see room for improvement in lots of places, but nothing that causes my blood pressure to rise even a little big. But boot-up times don't bother me either while others seem to throw their instruments out the window in a fit of rage if they aren't ready in 2 seconds. So are you twitchy or relaxed?

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 03:22:58 am
content: QuoteDepends, my pc, internet connection, and most electronics? No reason for there to be any lag at this point in a premium product with todays processing speed. Bloatware and pointless software bogging performance down is a peev.I guess I shouldnt expect much from the scope since it is still considered entry level, but as long is its not taking more than a second for any input to register and normally pretty quick all other times, I could manage.50/50 with impatience in most other areas.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 06:47:21 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 29, 2022, 03:22:58 am"Today's processing speed" is a myth. 2 GS/s scopes can create 8 GB of data every second (they use 16 bit words internally)... Every second. That's 28 TB an hour.For instance, SDS6000A has 4 5GS/s ADC. That is 40GB per second. 144 TB per hour.I would say even the slowest ones a pretty darned fast...Processing that and doing all kinds of mathematical transformations in real time and without even 1 /100th of a second of delay at all times is not very realistic.My favorite is people setting FFT in such a way so its time gate is 2 seconds and then complaining scope is slow because it refreshes FFT display "only every 2 seconds"......Siglent 2000X+ series does measurements on full buffer. So if you measure frequency, and you have 200 periods on screen, it will measure each one of them and calculate stats on that. That must be at least 200 times slower than what scopes that only measure one period per trigger do ( like Keysight Infiniivision 1000/2000/3000/4000/6000 do).But gets you 200x more measurements from single captured buffer...Slow is relative...And SDS2000X+ is by no means slow..Only thing that takes a second or two is for it to sort out through the buffer if you set it to 200 MPts (that will need to process 400 MB of data with 2 or more channels enabled), or bode plot or power analysis that needs few seconds to save scope state and restore it on enter/exit because scope needs to set specifically for the analysis.Try working on 400 MB TIFF image on a PC. Let me know how fast it is...

author: H713
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 07:32:49 am
content: I'm a student as well (okay, victory lap student who's been working for several years). I've only bought one piece of new test equipment (siglent scope) - everything else is eBay and auctions. There are pros and cons to this method, and you have to be patient (you get good at fixing stuff too!), but it's worked out well for me.-I really think the Siglent SDS1202X-E is a great scope in general, and an amazing scope for what it costs. Most importantly, in my opinion it's a veryusablescope. That is to say, it's got a good user interface. A four channel version might be nice, but only if it has dedicated knobs for vertical sensitivity on each channel. I have a TDS3054 at work that has one knob, plus buttons for vertical sensitivity, and it drives me nuts. Strangely, however, one of my favorite scopes is an Agilent 54622A. Its specs aren't winning any awards, but it's such a darn nice scope to use, if you can get past the whole monochrome CRT thing.-A good signal generator option that doesn't get a lot of talk is a used HP 3325. These are older, but they're very usable units and you should be able to get one for a couple hundred bucks used. Otherwise, I've used the Siglent arbitrary waveform generator and find it to be usable.-The Siglent and Rigol power supplies are passable. I still think they're more complicated than any bench power supply needs to be, but on the new market they're the best you'll do without spending an insane amount of money. I have a Hameg HM7044 in my lab that I got used at an auction. It's 90% of what I want in a power supply, aside from the current meters. They're digital, and they're so fast that if 90% of the time your eyes aren't fast enough to read them. It also has really annoying banana jacks on it.At work I have a Power Designs triple output power supply (don't remember the model number) that sees more use than anything else. Really one of the nicest, most well-behaved power supplies I've ever used. It annoys me less than most other power supplies, and it'sveryquiet.I am a firm believer that Metcal / Thermaltronics are the way to go for soldering. Yes, they're expensive, but the short working distance makes SMD soldering far easier. You should be able to get a setup for a few hundred bucks.The rest of your budget goes to more specialized tools that you buy based on what you want to work on. Maybe you need a high-voltage differential probe for designing offline converters. Maybe you want to work on high-voltage systems and you need a P6015 high voltage probe. Maybe you're hoping to do RF projects and need a spectrum analyser and a VNA. Perhaps you want to design analog audio equipment, in which case you'll need a distortion analyzer. Hell, a few of us (okay, maybe it's just me) feels that having a true analog pulse generator is invaluable. It's impossible to say what you're going to want without knowing what you want to work on. You might not know what you want to work on yet, and that's fine. Wait until you do to purchase that specialized equipment.The big tip I have is that it's really easy to spend a crapload of money on equipment that isn't all that great. Just because your school bought it doesn't mean that it's something you'd want to own. I know my school has some test equipment that costs a small fortune and doesn't work very well.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 08:12:10 am
content: QuoteThat is a impressive data capture. With that much, I would hardly ever to sort through that much information . I seem to have over step my bounds and the scopes are vary capable. Thanks for pointing out that about how much data it's actually moving when people are mentioning that it is slow, more than likely user error. I have no futher worries about it being an excellent. Way more powerful than I personally need.Current dilemma is to finish deciding on a decent choice for a soldering iron. Macal seems epic, but too much for my current skill level. I see almost everyone has a Hakko of some sort, many of their products just don't really feel like a good bank for buck.QuoteCan you point to a specific model you find to be a favorite or a good work horse? Praise is always overly abundant, but when I look at current models for sale, reviews are a mixed bag making it hard to know which to settle. Also, is there a company or kit for tips that work really well? Any suggestions for the desoldering tools or is the hakko fr301 just the gold standard and what is recommended? Comments point out maintenance is the the most tedious part about it all together. Do you find yourself every using the little solder vacuum pumps?Currently reading about all the different soldering stations. Watching various pointers with the different tips to know. I keep seeing poor temp response, solder sticking, and bad user experience all together. From even the very expensive few 100+! Really a mixed bag and just comes down to bad luck, needing to properly calibrate, or personal preference. Least favorite area to read for the wider range of responses and too many products.I believe I spent a few hours geeking over some of the amscope stero mircoscopes to help see. New item on my wish list for later. I'll be ok with my desk magnify glass and helping hands attachment.

author: 2N3055
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 08:31:37 am
content: Since you're in USA look into Pace as well.I tried Thermalthronics and wasn't impressed. I don't like that I cannot electronically set temperature on Metcal systems with Curie technology (there are Metcal systems that can set temp electronically).Tips on Thermalthronics didn't wet nicely..PACE ADS200 is 120W station. It has short tip to handle distance, and very comfortable aluminium handle that stays cold even after 10 hours. There is good choice of tips.Also JBC needs to be mentioned.

author: ehobby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 08:34:32 am
content: Lots said so far on this thread but I would like to add some seasoned comments based on 40 years of electronics home hobby, both design and repair. I have done professional engineering but that is not what this thread is about. I have seen people greatly overspend on equipment and still not find they are happy with what they are using once they actually start using it. You might be surprised how much you can do without state of the art, expensive, equipment. With some good thought, you may be able to get a really good bench setup for about $1000 to $1500. Here are some rules and advice you might want to think about:1. I have learned that simplicity in the devices and focused devices are generally the best.2. Trying to get a device that does too many things focuses your attention on the device and not what you are trying to do with it.3. Generally a multifunction device turns out to be a device that is only ok for many things you wish you had real focused tools to do.4. Learn to use the devices you have and learn how to interconnect them to measure multiple things at the same time.5. Skimping on test leads and jumper cables just leads to frustration.6. Design may require more accuracy as you develop something, but when you repair you generally don't need much. You don't need a 6.5 digit DMM to fix a radio.7. Don't rule out an analog meter because digital is considered the latest tech. You will probably need both as neither fully subs for the other.8. Unless you constantly professionally cal your equipment, those extra digits might just be fantasy.9. Lots of digits might be ok when calculating things on paper but getting 0.01% components to actually build it is also fantasy. Most components are 1% to 20% tolerance so extreme accuracy for most hobby work and repair is an expensive waste of money. You are not really going to make sure the transistor is biased to 2.56734V are you?Multimeters:Get at least two digital meters and one analog. I would suggest you find some old Fluke 8000 series meters (true RMS) and an old VTVM with a really big analog meter (or an old Triplett VOM). They can be found cheap on-line. 3.5 digits is fine for nearly everything outside some speciality designs (sensors and designing other test equipment for example). Tuning things with a digital display can be very frustrating, but watching the needle move on an analog meter makes tuning things (or watching for min/max changes) simple. Don't assume a bar graph on an LCD display is a good substitute for a real analog meter.Oscilloscope:Look for a Tek 465B (especially if it has the DM44) or an HP 1740A as a starter bench oscilloscope. They are very easy to use, don't have to navigate a menu system, have good bandwidth (usable beyond 100Mhz) and lots of trace displaying functionality. They don't have a bucket load of advertised functions (pattern generators, counters, logic analyzers, etc.) but excel at what scopes really need to do, display traces. Later when you really need a 500Mhz or higher scope with storage, spend the money based on what is available then.Frequency Counter:I would look for a Fluke 1900A series counter. They go up to 500Mhz, are very accurate and are pretty small. You can get them relatively cheap on-line. You can use one directly with a coax test lead or hook into the Channel 1 Out on the back of a 465B to get a scope trace related readout of frequency. You may find less restrictions on measuring frequency with this method over using some scopes built-in frequency counter (better triggering, accuracy, display size and more usable digits).Power Supply:More is better... I use a Systron TL8-3 and a Protek 3006B on my bench. I actually have two of each, six HP power supplies, a Heathkit HV supply, a homebuilt HV supply, lots of switchers up to 60A, and various other vendors bench supplies. Never know what you will need and just how many of what current/voltage range. I would suggest you collect some over time as you need them. The Systron gives the usual three voltages needed for most designs but does not have current limiting (ok as long as I keep this in mind). If I need current limiting I use the Protek. If you can find a triple supply with current limiting and digital displays get one. Vendor is not as important as long at it has high enough voltages and currents and easy to use, however voltage/current should be adjustable from knobs, not buttons.Load Testing:I would suggest you get a 100ohm 100W potentiometer and mount it in a box with a scale marked in 10 ohm increments, and a fuse on the wiper connection. This combined with a couple of 100 ohm 5W or 10W resistors will work for many power load requirements. A couple of 1 ohm to 10 ohm resistors are useful as well. I have a 150W electronic load (Kikusui PLZ-153W) that is really great but seldom need its accuracy. It is a bit of a luxury but when I need accurate load testing I am glad I have one. Something cheaper or used on-line could be a good future addition to your bench if you really need it. Remember the 100 ohm pot with a DMM on a 10A (or higher current shunt) will work as well. That is a reason you need more than one DMM.Soldering:I started with a Weller gun and a simple pencil soldering iron in the late 60's building RS and Heathkits. I have had a Weller WTCP since 1981. I use it for everything from soldering old tube radios to SMD parts (603 resistors are a little tricky, quad flat packs with 100+ pins not much of a problem). Only need one tip style. They last about 10 years each if you use them correctly. I do almost all lead based soldering but I have a tip for the newer annoying higher temp solders. A flux pin and solder wik are a must so get some. 95% of all my desoldering is done with a Soldapullt DS-17, about 1% with solder wik and the rest with a vacuum style desoldering station. If you decide to fix old tube radios and need to solder to the metal chassis, get an old Weller 150W/250W solder gun. Later in life you might invest in a temp controlled hot plate for mass soldering SMD. So my point here is very little low tech equipment is needed to do soldering if you get the right stuff and learn to use it.How to spend the rest of the $2000 budget:Invest in a set of 1% resistors and an assortment of caps. Nothing like needing a specific resistor and having to wait a few days to get one. I would get an old used Heathkit resistor decade box (six decades).That is all I have time to cover tonight but I suggest you look at used equipment if possible, get focused function easy to use devices, and take the time to learn to use them. I think you will be happier with this and so will your wallet. You want your focus on the project you are designing, not the equipment.Regards

author: Keith956
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 09:17:46 am
content: Quote from: ehobby on March 29, 2022, 08:34:32 amThe most sensible post on this thread. I bought secondhand stuff - which you can usually sell for what you paid for - until I knew what was really necessary and what were just expensive new toys. A cheap DMM or two, a used dual tracking power supply, a cheap old dual trace scope will get you a long way. HP and Tek stuff from the 80's can be picked up cheaply. Yes a new SDS2104X+ is a great scope when the time comes you know you need one. Learn to walk before you run, you will save a lot of money instead of buying stuff that a year or two later doesn't cut it anymore and you have to take the (massive) depreciation on that shiny Chinese bit of kit.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 11:26:32 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2022, 02:38:08 amIn the past decade I have spend (directly and indirectly) over 5k euro on Siglent gear for professional use and it all fell short when the pedal had to go to the metal. Useless for the purpose it was bought for and thus a waste of money (= expensive mistake). The most recent low was the SDG2k generator which is highly recommended on this forum and was supposed to have mature firmware. NOT! A few of these generators are sitting idle in a cabinet somewhere and they may end up in the trash in a few years with only several tens of hours of runtime on them. In short: based on my own (repeated) experiences I have lost all trust in Siglent. I'm truly sad to write it; I used to be very enthousiastic about them in the past (Siglent being a newcomer to the test equipment market with good hardware at decent prices). And the problem is not in the hardware but the lack of firmware (regression) testing that they appearantly have not been able to solve.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:11:51 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 29, 2022, 11:26:32 amAre you referring to things like this?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sgd2042x-rotary-encoder-poor-performance/msg3565446/#msg3565446(look at the dates, that's been years without a fix and it's quite fundamental)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 12:13:14 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on March 29, 2022, 12:11:51 pmNo. Such things can be overcome. I'm about functional limitations (things that should work but don't).

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 04:25:10 pm
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 29, 2022, 08:12:10 amKeep in mind that Metcal uses fixed temperature tips. This isn't really a problem as such as their design theory is a bit different--the tips are 'self-regulated', so fixed temperature doesn't mean fixed power. Still, for starting out and general work, I'd recommend going with something where you can afford a good assortment of various tips. IMO the minimum acceptable soldering tool is the Hakko FX888D. It is moderate power (60W) and indirectly heated, so it's main attraction is the availability of a huge variety of excellent tips. Avoid any off-brand tips, they all suck. I would start with this and see how you like it--for $100 you can relegate it to backup status if you decide to upgrade later, or resell it. From there I'd look at the Pace ADS200B, although they have increased in price recently I still think they are good bang-for-buck and . Someday I might have to sell a scope or something and get their hot tweezers...Or you could just go pro with this:https://paceworldwide.com/mbt360-multi-channel-soldering-and-rework-station-w-td-200-mt-200-and-sx-100

author: JimLev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 04:50:36 pm
content: Geneonline, with all this talk about power supplies you got me looking and thinking about the single channel supply I bought 2 years ago, a DCP3010D 30v 10amp voltage and current adjustable supply. Nothing fancy, LED readout for both V&I w/course and fine adj. It’s now going to be added to my for sale list as soon as my Siglent SPD3303X-E arrives from Saelig. With the discount and no sales tax I saved $52. Thanks for starting this thread.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 05:09:07 pm
content: Quote from: JimLev on March 29, 2022, 04:50:36 pmThat looks like it is a switching power supply. I strongly recommend against using a switching PSU for circuit testing / development work. It will output way too much noise and obscure measurement results.

author: JimLev
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 06:22:51 pm
content: Thanks for the info.My current supply is also a switching supply. I have others than are not switching.Update, 4.3.22After testing the new PS at full load there is only 10mv of noise. It doesn’t interfere with the AM radio next to it like my old switching supply did.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 07:59:28 pm
content: Congratulations to the OP for his thoughtful post. That kind of thought will be very useful throughout their career.I encourage them to think about how they can use whatever they have to its fullest advantage. That will stand them in good stead throughout their career.In that vein, it is instructive to consider what scope you would choose if your job is to create the world's fastest scope. That kind of question may arise throughout your career.Finally, we the aphorism in my .SIG, and think about its relevance to yourquestion.

author: porter
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 09:11:06 pm
content: If looking at used equipment, consider a Fluke 8050A. A 4 1/2 digit meter with 0.03% dc accuracy. Usually under $50 with a low shipping cost (on ebay).

author: ehobby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 09:52:25 pm
content: Geneonline,I would like to make some observations on function generators and signal sources. I have a bunch of different ones, low tech/home built to high end HP, Tek, R&S, Systron, Kenwood and Wavetek (lifelong collection).Function Generators and Signal Sources:I have gravitated to using a Wavetek 166 as my first choice (got two for ~$300 on ebay). Mine has a cheap (~$10) frequency counter module attached to the TTL output since it is an analog function generator. I can generate all sorts of waveforms, has modulation inputs, a reasonable voltage output range/offset, complementary TTL outputs, and good for driving a lot of things. If I need more accuracy or dual output (adjustable phase related) I use a Tek AFG 1062. The Tek is has better accuracy and cleaner output but for most things the Wavetek is easier to use (and has no bootup delay). You need to be careful about specs for function generators as there can be some glaring got-yas. Many have a published speed of let's say 30Mhz, but this is for sinewaves only, square waves may be only 15Mhz. Or the voltage range is for PP sinewave but only if there is no DC offset voltage. Or the voltage spec is for a high impedance but only half if into 50 ohms. When choosing a function generator, first look how much speed sine/square, then waveform types available, then for each waveform what voltage/offset you can actually get into a 50 ohm load. If you are not happy with the output at 50 ohms, you are bound to be disappointed down the road. Lots of people buy programmable AFGs (some with lots of memory) but never actually program them. Lots of wasted money there.Next looking at general signal sources for other uses. I do a little bit of work with AM/FM receivers, repair and alignment. I found a really good deal on a used Kenwood AM/FM Stereo signal generator. Check out the frequency range as many will cover from the bottom of the ham bands to the top of the FM band. Lots of vendors have made these so look for an inexpensive used one if you play in this area.If you need a frequency standard, look into one of the low cost units made from a GPS disciplined oven oscillator. Not to expensive and would be a good future buy if timing accuracy becomes important. You can use it for calibrating your scopes and frequency counters, or as a permanent clock into either device for much higher accuracy. A bit of a luxury device but useful to calibrate anything used you buy.Regards

author: ehobby
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2022, 09:59:50 pm
content: Porter,Fluke 8050A is great and was my goto DMM for about 20 years till I got a couple of Fluke 45s. I still have a couple of 8050As, battery and AC models. I have six or seven Fluke 80xx meters and all work well and stay in cal for decades. I even built one of the simple transistor beta fixtures for the 8050A long ago and it still works.Regards

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 01:12:49 am
content: Wow, I didn't expect great advice to keep being added! With every comment and recommendation I've been looking up teardowns, product specifications, prices new and use, and getting to have a better understanding what is available! This field certainly has many wonderful measuring tools and have been around for awhile with a lot to choose from!I'll post some of the things I've narrowed down and would love to hear your opinions! Last few days, spent a lot of time looking at all of the suggestions regarding DMM's, oscilloscopes, WFG, PSUs, logic analyzers, RF/vector stuff, how to modify and hack many on them, hot air/soldering stations, kits, leads and some other useful tools at hand. The list can go for a long time!Bedazzled shiny eye'd shopper of yesterday is trying to scrutinizing the finer print and find more usefulness. For the next year, I generally will be needing only rudimentary measuring devices and need to be able to inject simple signals into circuits I create or break down something and understand all the different gates/logic or behavior. Following year will prob begin another splurge for more advanced systems which will enter more of the specialized territory. After spending time with people who's current project is to fully build self piloting rovers with object recondition, tracking, and navigation around a room. Just a lot of hands on work proto typing, soldering, and de bugging. With that being said, here is my list:For a simple all in one solution temporarily, I will settle with theSIGLENT SDS2104X Plus. Even though half of me is saying to get the smaller,sds1000 series. The reason for 2K is the UI experience, screen, resolution, cross functionality, plotting, basic analyzing, waveform gen. Understanding it has many short comings by not being exceptionally great at those areas, I won't need to invest more into those individual devices for a while. Only may run to a few specific use cases which will still have down sides for other equipment at the current budget. I do need this sooner than later for my project due next month. I'm not going used or older on this due to just wanting a clean interface, ease of use with a pc, recording video, streaming data, and logging work I do to bring back and forth to class to share with other classmates. The crazy amount of programmability for each thing will keep me busy. Easy access for replacement, warranty, and many people already on the platform. Needing warranty or the ability to just simply getting a refund for a different unit if I run into problems over the next few years. (sds1000 can do similar if i add a simple WFG. would be cheaper too). It works, will be good during college, and if it doesn't turn out well, I'm sure somebody would be willing to buy it for a good price will all the extra features unlocked, courtesy of the forum. A goodTek, Rohde and Schwarz, keysight,orlecroywould take a lot more time to land a deal than I current have. Once I make a few more connections, travel a little bit, have more experience in what I really want during intern rotations in two years, I may land on a great find when around businesses with that kind of gear.I will hold off a little longer on some of the more advancedwave form generatorsthat are able to sync with external sources more accurately when I actually NEED it. I will still have $ saved for when something pops on the market during the time. The school has all that crazy national lab level stuff for when it counts. Will run the sensitive experiments there, or log the files and bring it home to use with one built-in Siglent's. When I out grow that the oscilloscope's built in one, hopefully prices drop on a lot of gear by then. I also don't really believe I need that kind of high frequency till we begin communications. Any signal gen I can find sub-500$ new doesn't seem to cut the cake. Would be a duplicated purchase later on. Need to still spend a little more time reading about the more advanced uses and environments for that level of specification. A few pointed out I could ending up needing two separate, one for digital and analog.DMM: I'm not struggling for a DMM atm. Looking at options between 5-1/2 and 6-1/2 read outs. I feel like this is the least stressful area to find a reliable and trusty measurement. There is a lot of fluke, dk precision, tek, and many other companies in abundance while not epically expensive.I still have many mixed feelings concerning thePSU. I stopped the previous order of theRigol 832. I do like the idea of having a 3 channel, programmable, extra bells and whistles, but seeing additional voltage spikes even on new units and other brands, while some having the following max over volt protections being slow in software, or none all together, loud, low, high noise, inaccurate readings, bad design not powerful enough. There's always something wrong with everything. I am considering theKORAD KA3005Pto start with for now. It has some major flaws, some have been pointed out and fixed over the years, but its cheap, easy to mod, decent and clean power with the ability to hooked up to a pc for scripts and has more than enough power for anything I'll be working on. I'm fine with something that is stable as I'll be stepping down the voltage and amps with resistors before adding into my circuits and monitoring true reading on the board level with my DMM to avoid disasters. Plus all the professors and tutors are expecting us to fry our projects a few times to learn the hard way. They do say, "Always order multiple parts, use IC sockets, and git gud". Another item to spend a little more time for the right bargain. Expecting modern decent all-rounder felt to good to be true. Korad is a little ugly so I'm also ok if someone can recommend a reliable programmable linear psu for around $300 or less that will feel like it was money well spent and everyone agrees on. I really changed my tune about this for those reasons and I wanted to use that money for the next few items.Hot Airflow Station:Quick 861DW. A few really good choices for a little less and more. I found an avg priced unit, extra bent nozzle, and its a solid product that will work great. Fast free shipping/returns if I get a bad unit. This is a little bit of a luxury, but I think this will become a work horse hopefully lasting a long time.Attnlooked solid, but not many vendors are close by. Don't want to go for a knock off of another well known brand. Want less chance of a headache with decent steady heat. I'm curious how my lights will flicker. Seeing the reasoning being due to pulses being different from similar heaters making it other electronics act weird. If this is a problem when it arrives, I'll send it back.Soldering station: eitherPace's 'ADS200AccuDrive® Production Soldering Station with TD-200 Tip-Heater Cartridge Iron & Instant SetBack Tool Stand' orHakkos 'FX951'. Pace Has a great selection of tips in TD-200 standard and ultra-performance blue series tips. A little pricer for the machine, but as mentioned earlier in the forum, close working distance, fine pen like soldering iron grip. Similar or better pricing for certain tips, and higher wattage than Hakko. Minor things as Hakko has a lot going for it as well. Hakko has great performance and very respectable heat up time on the FX951. Very close in price when I add up all the extra color grips for tips on Hakko to change out quickly. That plastic blue color though. I think I could confidently pick either and have a blast when melting lead. Accessories for Pace's professional line are robust too. I really liked thePace's ST115 Digital Desoldering Stationwith SX-100 Sodr-X-Tractor. Awesome video's people using that. I would love that in the future. Not practical as I don't have to do that much precision work any year soon. MaybeHAKKO FR301-03/Pin a year or two if I need to. I am buying a hand held 'solder vacuum pump' that I can bring back and forth. Prob should learn the manual tricks first before getting spoiled on automation.Macal/JBLwas appealing, but too much $$ and the tips are very expensive for each one. I would need to take a few different brands for a run to really know the difference. A lot of knock offs, good brands, and everything in between. Could spend days on this, but another item I need by next week.Picked out are an assortment of basetipchoices: a conical, curved conical, chisel, and knife to begin with. I already picked out the standard tips for both Pace and Hakko. Curious to know about the performance difference with Pace's ultra-performance line is about. Not many head to head pace vs hakko on the web to make a informed decision from.I did like J-link'ssegger'stracer andsaleae'spc logic analyzer. Will pick something reasonable later when that is more important. Really like whatSigrokwas doing for an easy entry in and inexpensive DIY solutions.Other nitche area's will be revisited at a later date. I will be using this wonderful forum from now on!That is the update where I'm at now. Gotta finish adding a few 7-segment displays and find a debouncer part number for a few switches in a binary/digital clock design due tm. Will be lurking and responding when I can.

author: pope
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 30, 2022, 08:09:08 am
content: Great advices here

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 05:06:18 am
content: Quote from: bdunham7 on March 29, 2022, 02:48:26 amWhile I do type at 100 words a minute (though not on a phone. Ihatetyping on a phone. I make too many mistakes and it's maddening), I don't have a problem withsomewhatslow UIs.But the problem I was having with the UI on the Siglent was much worse than that. The problem I was having is that it wouldignore my inputs.Well, this thread prompted me to take action. See, the issue is that what I was primarily using to gauge responsiveness to the front panel was the timebase setting. And the issue I was having is that I'd turn the timebase knob and it would only acknowledge some of the "clicks". If I moved it only one click, it was random whether or not it would respond to that. This, of course, was maddening. The fact that it's a digital encoder, worked only some of the time, and where it worked didn't seem to depend on the rotational position of the knob led me to believe that the issue had to be the operating system, and that everyone else just ignored it.But it occurred to me, finally, that it couldn't bethisbad for most others, because most other people praise the UI as being reasonably responsive.So I had two choices: send the unit to Siglent for warranty repair and wait perhaps months, or replace the encoder myself, and take advantage of the opportunity to replace the multifunction knob with a detented encoder. I chose the latter.Turns out that it was indeed the encoder after all (the solder joints all looked fine). The UI (the timebase in particular) is nowmuchbetter.But, naturally, nothing I do ever works completely right the first time. In this case, it appears Siglent used encoders that generate output that is thereverseof that which normal encoders generate. I used the same encoders for both the timebase (and the volts/div) as well as for the trigger position and the multifunction knob. The replacements work properly for the trigger position and the multifunction knob. They work in reverse for the timebase and the volts/div setting. The difference between those two groups is that the timebase and volts/div were already detented encoders, and those apparently encoded in reverse of what the smooth encoders do. Now they all encode in the same way, resulting in the timebase and volts/div working backwards.Sigh. I just can't ever win completely.But the good news is that the front panel now works properly, though it previously got somewhat sluggish under the right circumstances (when the scope is doinga lotof processing, like when you've got an FFT going, along with a large capture buffer and other measurements). With my fixed encoders in place, I'll have to gain some experience with the scope to see if the other responsiveness issues I'd occasionally seen are gone.I guess I'll have to go back to my comments where I complained about the responsiveness of the scope and update them to reflect this latest development. But note that Ihadoccasionally managed to get the scope into a state where it would ignore the front panel buttons themselves (e.g., the run/stop button). It'll be interesting to see if my surgery has somehow fixed that (can't see how it would, but you never know).I'm halfway tempted to get encoders of the same kind that I used (can't remember the brand right now but they're good ones) but which encode in reverse, open the scope up, and replace the timebase and volts/div encoders with those. But disassembling the scope enough to remove the encoder board and, especially, disconnecting and reconnecting the encoder board's ribbon cables, was a real pain that I'd rather not repeat if I can help it.EDIT: Yeah, I could simply cross-connect the A and B lines on the two encoders by cutting the leads and soldering wires between the (now truncated) terminals and the pads on the board. But that's a kludge, and I tend to prefer something a bit more professional. But I might have no choice. I'm not having any luck finding an encoder that matches what Siglent seems to be using.Might be better just to live with this. In a way, having them reversed "makes sense". We usually associate clockwise rotation with an increase in something, and counterclockwise with a decrease. An increase in the amount of time per division, and similarly an increase in volts per division, is what the current setup gets me. It operates opposite of what most scopes do, but itdoesmake a certain kind of sense. That said, I'd prefer that it work the way it was designed to. Sigh...

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 08:28:23 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on March 31, 2022, 05:06:18 amThank you for pointing this out on the unit! I have seen other Siglent devices in videos showing knobs not correctly registering minute details consistently. This is the first I'm really hearing about it on a product that is a step up in the price line up. I was wishfully hopeful of a flawless unit with many ranting and raving. Almost second guessing, but there is problems with the other brands too, if not more cumbersome. Will need to roll this lottery for how mine will turn out.How was the process swapping the encoders? I just finished browsing the service manual for disassembly. A little tedious for sure when buying a brand new and potential voiding warranty. Hoping this sore spot has been address with production ofunits being out for a bit. Seen some improvements have been made with firmware updates, no idea if it would help here as I don't have the device yet to review. I'll prob dig into threads about swapping them later when I begin worrying before bed. Looks like I'll be watching Dave's tear down on this for the n-th time for this process.Your explanation was clear detailing what to test and something to potentially expect in the future.I'm very appreciative.All other aspects of the oscilloscope work well during testing and using for you?Would you be able to speak in detail how your experiences were in regard if other Siglent devices, if you own, have the a similar issue?

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 08:33:33 am
content: Just found a post about something similar to which I was looking for...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-bugs-missing-features-feature-requests/

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 08:51:26 pm
content: Quote from: geneonline on March 31, 2022, 08:28:23 amThe scope itself is good enough that it's worth buying. If my experience with the encoders in this model was common then I'd have expected to see a lot more on it. So I think you'll be safe in buying it.QuoteThe main issue was with disconnecting and reconnecting the ribbon cables that connect to the encoder board, a necessity because removal of the encoder board is a prerequisite of getting to the backside of it to desolder the offending encoders. There are two of these ribbon cables, one on the side of the encoder board and one on the top, and both are connected to the underside of the encoder board.The ribbon on the top goes through a slot in the plate the motherboard attaches to (and which provides structure that the motherboard, the encoder board, and the display all attach to) and attaches to the primary side of the motherboard. This has to be disconnected first. There is very little room to work with here (well, relative to my clumsy fingers, at any rate), because the position of the connector on the motherboard is very close to the lip of the plate (this makes reattaching the cable even more difficult than removing it). There is tape that is used to secure the ribbon in place, and you have to lift that first before you can unlatch the connector and remove the ribbon.For the cable on the side, the display is in the way and has to be moved out of the way, and there are a number of connections to the display, enough that it's better to just lay the display upside down, pivoting from its bottom where its main ribbon connector is. Once the display is out of the way, removing the side ribbon from the encoder board isn't really a problem. It, too, is secured with tape, which of course has to be lifted before the connector's latch can be disengaged. I tried to do this without moving the display, and managed to succeed, but it would have been a lot easier if I had moved the display as I described. I ended up having to move the display in order to reconnect this ribbon cable.QuoteI'm on the latest version of the firmware. Believe me, my issuewas most certainlya hardware issue. Because of that, I have to throw my prior experience with the front panel out the window. It's just not valid to presume that the issues are still present when this particular hardware issue might have been causing problems for the entire front panel, even if I can't think of a way that it could that was consistent with my overall experience (argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy, after all.).QuoteDave's teardown annoyingly skips over the majority of the disassembly process, and he never disassembled it to the point of getting at the encoder board. Getting to the encoder board requires removal of the front bezel assembly, which requires removal of the sticker that shows the colors of the inputs and other information. There are three screws behind that sticker. Removing this without damaging it required the use of a heat gun (onlowsetting: 100 degC for mine, as low as it would go) and a plastic razor blade.I haven't put the sticker back yet, and am interested in any suggestions as to an adhesive that is strong enough to keep the sticker in place but weak enough to make removal of the sticker easy enough that it won't be damaged by the forces involved. Something like the adhesive used on painter's tape. Any ideas?As an alternative, I'm thinking of punching holes in the sticker where the screws are, but thiswillremove some of the printed text, so I'm reluctant to do that (and besides, it'll compromise the appearance, which isn't the end of the world, but is still a downside).QuoteMy pleasure.QuotePretty much. There are a few quirks with the decoding, for instance: it'll only decode what's present on the screen, even if what's on the screen is only a subset of what was captured. The scope itself uses a "what you see is all you get" approach to capture. There's lots of threads on this, but the upshot is that the screen boundaries define the time boundaries of the capture, making it trivial to knowexactlywhat you're going to get in the capture. This tends to throw off some people, who expect the scope to use the entirety of memory for that single capture No Matter What. You can get this scope to use the entirety of memory by increasing the time per division until the amount of memory shown in the timebase box stops increasing (of course, this presumes you've told the scope that the maximum amount of memory it should use for a capture is the amount of memory it actually has, otherwise it'll use the remaining memory to retain prior captures). This is where zoom mode comes into its own. You put the entire capture on the main screen, and use the zoom mode screen to show the portion of the capture that you're interested in.There are other little annoyances. For instance, if you've got the table of decoded values showing, youcannotuse it to go to the portion of the capture that contains the value you've selected.But overall, the scope is really awesome.QuoteI have an SDS-1204X-E as well. It doesn't have the encoder issue we're talking about here (nothing else I have does, not like that). Itdoeshave a problem with the UI locking up solid on me if I leave it on for really extended periods of time (many weeks). This is a bug in the firmware for sure. I know this because I sent my scope in to have it checked out, they weren't really able to reproduce the issue consistently enough to determine a root cause (no surprise, given the amount of time it takes to see the issue), they sent me a replacement (different hardware version and everything), and the replacement turns out to have the very same issue. The UI is recoverable if you're able to connect to the scope over the network when it gets into this state. Otherwise you have to forcibly power the scope off (hold the power button down like you would a laptop) and power it on again.My SDS-2104X+ doesn't have that problem. I've left it on continuously and it always responds when I do something (encoder issues notwithstanding) even after weeks of inactivity.--Since I own both the SDS-2104X+ and the SDS-1204X-E and have experience with both, I can tell you from experience that the SDS-2104X+ iseasilyworth the price of admissionifyou can stretch for it. Its implementation of zoom mode by itself is worth the price of admission: it's done properly in the SDS-2104X+. Even the mask test is capable of being used in zoom mode. It makes up for all (or nearly all. There may be something I'm overlooking) of the shortcomings of the "what you see is all you get" capture approach that Siglent (and, apparently, LeCroy) uses.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2022, 11:44:15 pm
content: KCBThese 3M ATG700 adhesive transfer guns would be my first choice for re-sticking labels:https://www.3m.com/3M/en_LB/p/d/v000076379/This one from Scotch could be useful too:https://www.scotchbrand.com/3M/en_US/scotch-brand/products/catalog/~/Scotch-Adhesive-Dot-Roller/?N=4335+3294529207+3294603441&rt=rud

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 01:26:07 am
content: Quote from: tautech on March 31, 2022, 11:44:15 pmHow strong is the adhesive in those? Remember that the goal is to make it possible to peel the sticker off of the scope by hand without damaging it, so as to make it relatively easy to remove the front plastic panel if that should prove necessary.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 02:11:53 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 01:26:07 amPretty strong but it depends on the surface substrate how well they hold together.The large dispenser gun we stick light card nonglossy business cards to catalogues with a single 20mm strip of glue and they won't come off without one or the other tearing or delaminating.Years ago I used it to stick a 1/4" glass pull tab to a sliding glass panel and it stayed put and worked great whereas a previous one stuck down with epoxy stressed the glass and it broke.Flexy vinyl label to thermoplastic housing I would have no hesitation like for X+ however I do know you can get the sticker in question from Siglent NA as member mwyatt needed one for his X+ when it had an accident with liquids and he had to fully strip and wash it to recover it.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 02:28:56 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on March 31, 2022, 08:51:26 pmI will be following these instructions in detail if I ever need to open it up once the scope is out of warranty. Saw a few posts that Siglent takes pretty good care fixingsomethings. Hopefully I don't have a similar annoyances plaguing when mine shows up.QuoteI officially ordered the SDS-2104X+!I was heavily second guessing between the two models you've mentioned. This was just the little push I needed to stop debating. The SDS-1204x-e is one heck of a bang for buck in a small box. Some of the other deciding factors were in a lot of the screen shots of the sds1k line. It just didnt have the same clean lay out of the SDS2K and some menu's would over lap onto your graphs. I was unsure if the resolution would have been the same interfacing through a pc. Honestly, I wasn't feeling too confident seeing all the menus inside of more menus and info readily inaccessible. I would possible fall into a routine and continually never find functions being buried under menu selections. I will still have that problem, but won't feel as cramped on screen. If everything continues to work as intended, I will keep this for a very long time where ever I go. Glad I won't feel that haunting question" I wish I should have gotten the next model up".Quote from: tautech on March 31, 2022, 11:44:15 pmThese look great and would have been better than any suggestions I would could up with. I was just thinking hitting with a little glue if the labels were relatively straight.__________________The most cumbersome selection is now out of the way. lol such a relief. I have spent way more than I should wrestling over buying decisions when it comes to things I want to just work when it should for a long time.My last lingering enigma is the which quirks of a PSU to live with. I get its not a big deal and will have a PSU hording problem like most in the forum in the future. Please put me out of my misery and help make the last selection.Debating between these few choices:Keithley 2231A-30-3 for $600 total(used ebay).Instek GPP-4323 (LAN) $700Rigol DP832 $500or something else?Trying to keep budget around 500$ for the PSU as I already spent my 2k budget with my other items. Something too good to pass up would kinda have me stretch my budget for one. Honestly need to read about some of the older legendary equipment to know what I'm looking for on ebay.Min specs needed:-3 channels-ability to hit 5a with monitoring and protecting from some source-low noise-programmable-lan or usb connect to pc-ability to calibrate at home and adjust the display output-Timer, can see output voltage and amps for channels at all times-UI doesn't lock up-remote sense would be nice, but I know that only premium optionsPretty much a lot ticks the boxes. Siglent SPD3303X-E around $400 is another barging buy. Just something about the off-set binding posts, knob, and the 3rd channel switch just urks me for some reason. Prob a lot nicer in person but not sure and would like a little more control over the 3rd channel. With those savings I could buy a very cheap 60v/5A single channel supply or a proper electronic load for a little more that the Instek thats has its own very weird problems, low amps on a few channels, and a limited load.I'm gonna spend the next hour browsing for a deal that checks the boxes. I've exhausted my options looking at new PSU's. Prob flip a coin by the end of the night at this rate. Any more time debating, my semester will be over by the time it arrives and me overthinking this. Its just a PSU at the end of the day. lol

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 03:08:48 am
content: geneonlineYou will love the 2kX+ as many others here do and I highly recommend you get a mouse for it despite it having a touch display and physical controls a mouse speeds usage and provide a better all-round experience with all these recent Siglent models.Latest SDS6000A scopes are shipped with a wireless mouse for exactly the same reasons and as they have a 12" display it saves lots of time rather than chase around the display with a finger.SPD3303X-E are certainly not your usual PSU design however we sell a good few each year and have little problem with them. That their 3 channels are all properly isolated from one another and mains ground allows multiple units to be connected in series to a rated max of 500V from mains GND.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 03:31:08 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 03:08:48 amGreat tip! There is a good number of peripherals laying around for use. Looking forward to unboxing and exploring everything it can do! I'll be sufficiently busy with that for quiet a while.QuoteIs there a way to have all devices linked/controlled in a single app? Example, logging, screen recording, and controlling in one window? Would like to synchronize tests referencing back at a given time. Does every device needs their own software? Is it preferable to connect with a network switch or usb in your experience?

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 04:10:02 am
content: Just a followup on the encoder thing. I verified directly that the encoders Siglent is using for the vertical and horizontal scaling are indeed reversed in their outputs from the standard.Here's the encoders I'm using:https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/652-PEC12R-4220F-S24And here's the datasheet for it:https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/54/PEC12R-777795.pdfNote that the pinout shows, with the 3 quadrature output pins (A, common, and B) at the bottom, and when viewed from above, A on the left, common on center, and B on the right.With common grounded and A and B connected through pull-up resistors to power, the output of A will lead the output of B when turned clockwise, and will lag when turned counterclockwise.The encoder Siglent is using generates output that is the reverse: A will lag B when turned clockwise, and will lead B when turned counterclockwise. In essence, this means that Siglent's encoders have B on the left and A on the right, when the encoder is viewed as described above.Why in the world Siglent would ever use encoders that have reversed signal pins is quite beyond me. I have no idea how to find good replacements for them. The parametric search Mouser provides doesn't even give an option to search for such a thing, and neither does DigiKey.The encoders Siglent is using seem to be made by LJV:https://www.ibselectronics.com/ibsstore/datasheet/4425676.pdf.In looking at them and feeling them in comparison with the Bourns encoders, they seem to be rather high quality, with a nice feel to them overall.The datasheet shows nothing about the relative phase of the encoded signals. The encoders appear to be something like the RE1103XC1-H01 (based on the dimensions, "X" is going to be "F", for 7mm). The datasheet doesn't describe how to be more specific than that. It's a 20-position encoder.Obviously I had to hook the encoders up to a scope with the appropriate pull-up resistors (common went to ground) in order to see the output of the signals they would generate (the irony of using my SDS-2104X+ to view the signals generated by the Siglent encoders that were previously installed in that very scope is not lost on me). I performed this exercise for the purpose of comparing how the phases worked in the Siglent encoders compared with the Bourns encoders I replaced them with, and found the above. But here's the interesting thing:I can't find anything wrong with these encoders.Whatever was going on with my scope before, it wasnotthe fault of the encoders. That implies either a broken solder joint that I somehow missed, or the connections between the encoder board and the rest of the scope were somehow intermittent.That, of course, means that I can solve the directionality issue by putting the original encoders back into service. That's likely what I'll do.Meanwhile, I'm halfway tempted to replace the remaining two smooth encoders with these Bourns detented encoders, because it's really nice to be able to move the encoder with precision, and to easily go from the current value to the next value definitively. But it's also nice to be able to move the horizontal and vertical positions fluidly, and that kind of precision isn't quite as useful for those as it is for the trigger position (or for pretty much anything controlled by the multifunction knob).Regardless of what I end up doing, this wound up being a worthwhile, though frustrating, exercise.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 05:41:35 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 04:10:02 amThis is a thorough implementation of patience tracking the information and specification. Taking the oscilloscope apart only later to discover that putting back together was all it needed. If swapping the encoders back, then changing the remaining refines use, that feeling of adjustments should be oddly satisfying with lingering love/hate.. When and if you do this procedure, I would love to see your findings from the end result! I would be tempted to make the same modifications with the encoders you linked if they perform great in the respective adjustment purposes.While you have the oscilloscope apart, is there a safe way to test the encoders on the board before fully assembling again? If it's a reverse signal between pins A/B in regard to Bourns, would the timing be sufficient if you crossed the lines? ie. bend pins away from board to solder a wire to the correct path? If that doesnt give enough stability, breaking the trace further up the board and then crossing the wires if possible? Either of those options are sketchy ideas at best and more not truly being feasible.Which probes did you use for checking the logic of the encoders? Was it on the sds1204x-e? Manufactured probes or home made? I'm deciding on getting a few general purpose kits to be able to make some myself.My unit should arrive by the of end new week. There will be thorough use of the machine while I'm within the first month of purchase!Not on the same level of frustration you are experiences with your scope, I respect not settling till its the way you want. Testing keycaps and the switches for peripherals, cycling through a dozen to find the most natural for many days. I do love a good tactile/haptic feedback. Hand full of things around the house will have your lesson applied when attempting trouble shooting procedures. checking solder joints and signal integrity a few times before removing things will be first on the list.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 06:29:30 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on April 01, 2022, 03:31:08 amI prefer LAN as I have a switch on the bench whereas others might have a USB hub I don't.The scope has a webserver for remote control with a mouse and also a SCPI command panel and you can also use the EasyScopeX SW from Siglent but there are a couple of other notable SW packages that support most Siglent instruments:Test Controllerhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/LXI tools has a thread here on the blog should you want to engage with the writer:https://siglentna.com/application-note/lxi-tools/Check out the various model specific programming guides:https://int.siglent.com/download/

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 07:10:59 am
content: Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 06:29:30 amI'm Very interested in learning more about LXI's platform. Many devices are marked with it! You are an impressive one stop shop for resources. Thanks for taking time out to help and point to correct sources to reference! Time to go down another rabbit hole of information

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 07:24:37 am
content: Quote from: geneonline on April 01, 2022, 05:41:35 amIt may be that there was a cracked solder joint. It certainly seems there was at least an intermittent contact somewhere, and Ithinkmost of the problem was limited to the timebase control.It's possible that the encoder wasn't mounted quite flush with the board, such that pressing on it put stress on one of the solder joints, and that cracked it. Stranger things have happened. That said, the legs to the side of the encoders should have provided more than enough stability. Hard to say what really happened.QuoteIn thinking about it, chances are I'll leave the remaining two encoders (that control vertical and horizontal position) alone. Those, more than any other, are likely to get substantial fast movements on them while not needing the kind of precision you would want elsewhere, and putting detented encoders there would eliminate the ability to move them in that fast manner.QuoteWell, so far I very much like having a detented encoder on the trigger, and consider having a detented encoder on the multifunction knob a near-necessity. I honestly can't fathom why a smooth encoder is used on the multifunction knob.QuoteNot really. You have to apply power to something in order to get anything out of the encoders when they're mounted. I built a simple breadboard setup for testing the desoldered encoders. It's how I was able to hook them up to my scope in the first place. The best I could do with them soldered onto the encoder board is to buzz out the connections.QuoteIf the original encoders weren't working then this is exactly what I would do. Swapping A with B is sufficient to yield the desired result. But it appears that won't be necessary.The large legs on either side of the encoder are soldered into large holes in the encoder board, and they provide (orshouldprovide) a lot of stability.QuoteJust the standard probes that came with the scope. I used my 2104X+ to test the encoders (which felt a bit ironic, honestly, seeing how the encoders came out of that very scope).You can doa lotwith the standard probes that come with the scope.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 08:46:23 am
content: It is a little funny about hearing about your running the scope on the very same parts that were removed from it! I'll not jump the gun and see how things go. I'm sure it will be manageable.QuoteThat's great to hear! I was reading posts of people recommending leads running from 5-150! I'll stick with what's in the box. I won't be doing any thing that would require that level of precision.quick question, for the best safe practices of ESD and grounding, is it usually better to run a decent gauged wire tied to a metal rod into earth, ground onto the bench PSU, or just a simple grounding through a wall outlet ok? I have a few different silcone mats with grounding clips and wrist straps, but that doesnt do anything till its ran to a acutal ground. Just getting a better sense how to not kill myself when probing. I fail to see many to use safe practices in tear down videos, but I'm guessing many do the tear downs before they ever power it up.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 07:42:00 pm
content: Quote from: geneonline on April 01, 2022, 08:46:23 amIt's not so much a question of precision as it is things like bandwidth and safety. For safety, see below.For bandwidth, the thing to remember is that once you get into the many tens of megahertz range and above, you're in territory where probing technique becomes critical. In particular, you have to minimize your ground path because at those frequencies,everythingis an antenna. That little ground pin that you attach to the probe lead becomes crucial. And that's at frequencies well below the bandwidth of the passive probes that will come with your scope.When you're at the point where you need probes that can exceed a couple of hundred megahertz, you'll know it. Not only will you know it, it may be that your scope requirements at that point will be much greater than what your scope (even when fully hacked) is capable of.So yeah, stick with the probes that come with the scope.QuoteEverything depends on the quality of the ground at the outlet. Most reasonably modern homes are constructed such that the ground at the outlet is completely adequate. Anything that it's not sufficient for is likely to be of such high energy that you don't want it anywhere near your house anyway.By far the best thing you can do is to get a conductive silicone mat and attach that to ground, and use a ground strap around your wrist.That leaves probing technique. The issue with probing isn't really ESD (obviously that's something to be careful about, but you're more likely to damage the DUT by handling it than by probing it), it's with ground loops. You need toalwaysensure that the ground attach point of your lead isnotconnected to a point on the DUT that is at a driven potential relative to earth ground, because your probe's ground attach point is itself already connected to earth ground. If the test point's local ground reference point is at a driven potential relative to earth ground, then you've got three options:attach the grounds of your leads to a ground on the DUT (Device Under Test) that matches earth ground and then use two probes to probe the circuit, one for the signal and one for the local ground, and then use the scope to show the differenceuse a proper isolated differential probe(notrecommended!!) power the scope through an isolation transformer with a floating ground on the power output sideA proper isolated differential probe will set you back a minimum of a couple of hundred dollars. And if you need high bandwidthandisolation, it'll cost you quite a lot more than that, particularly if you need to see relatively small signals.Anyway, if differential probing were as commonly needed as you might think, then differential probes would probably cost a lot less than they do. Most people are obviously able to do without.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 08:36:13 pm
content: Nowadays you can buy decent differential HV probes for less than $200 (the ones from Micsig for example) and sometimes good deals come along as well.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 01, 2022, 09:01:09 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on April 01, 2022, 08:36:13 pmThis is true, but all of the inexpensive ones compromise on something. For instance, the Micsig has a bandwidth of 100 MHz, which is pretty decent, but has aminimumof 50X signal reduction, so it's not going to be the greatest thing for looking at small signals.Getting good bandwidthand10X signal reduction is going to cost you, near as I can tell. Examples to the contrary would be welcome.

author: egonotto
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 01:50:48 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 09:01:09 pmHello,perhaps Micsig DP10007https://www.batronix.com/versand/messtechnik/tastkoepfe/Micsig-DP10007.htmlBest regardsegonotto

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 02, 2022, 02:27:05 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 09:01:09 pmDon't forget CMRR and noise. The Sapphire-built probes are still a decent choice, the EEVBlog one is actually a good deal at $450 AUD.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 05:15:06 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 07:24:37 amWell, this turned out to be wrong.I put the original encoders back into play and the issue with the scope missing my inputs returned. So itisthe encoders, but it's not that they're not generating output.This can mean only that the encoders aren't reliably generating pulse widths wide enough, or enough time between A and B, to make it possible for the scope to reliably recognize that the encoder has been moved. I suppose it's possible that the internal impedance of these encoders is just high enough to ride that threshold. I'll have to measure that.So now I'm going to try reverse the pins on the replacement encoders. This isnoteasy to do with the amount of room that's available. It's finicky work. I'll post another update once I've completed that work (the scope is apart at the moment).To those who have an SDS-2kX+: if you've got the waveform up on the screen, and you turn the timebase encoder one detent, does the scopereliablysee your input? Mine doesn't with the original encodersbut does with my replacements. If yours doesn't, then we have a more widespread issue than just mine.

author: bdunham7
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 06:31:41 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 03, 2022, 05:15:06 amMine responds to each and every click of the knob unless I turn it very quickly, so quickly I can't keep count. I can adjust it 10 clicks one way nd then 10 back with my eyes closed and it ends up where I started. I find that the best way to describe Siglent UI and encoders is that I tend to carefully watch the instrument as I change the settings--it isn't one of those you can reliably do quickly or by feel. However, I can not find any of the complained-about defects in any of my instruments and the SDS2104X+ seems solid to me so far.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 03, 2022, 07:17:57 am
content: An update: I installed my replacement encoders with the outputs cross-connected (this was annoying to do. I'm fortunate that I had silicone-sheathed wires to do it with) and it works a treat!Unfortunately I forgot to get pictures of it, but I do have an encoder that I used to test the idea with and I can take a photo of that if anyone's interested. There's relatively little space to play with because the buttons are fairly close to the encoders, so I had to minimize the wire lengthandensure that the wires had sufficient insulation to not contact the common pinandensure that they were short enough to stay within the allowed volume region for the encoders.Quote from: bdunham7 on April 03, 2022, 06:31:41 amThis suggests that Siglent made a hardware change. It would be interesting to know if your encoders are the same as the ones that were originally in my scope. I suspect not. Opening the scope enough to get to the encoders is more trouble than it's worth, though, even if yours happens to be out of warranty, so I can't exactly ask you to check.With my replacement encoders in place, my scope behaves as yours does.So this is very definitely an encoder issue, and very definitely not an issue with the solder joints or any of that. The fact that both of the original encoders show the same patterns on the scope means that this isn't a production defect in the encoders, but adesigndefect.I'll play with them and see if I can characterize them better. Maybe something will stand out as faulty once I post up the various waveform characteristics of them.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 05:10:45 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 03, 2022, 07:17:57 amWell, I did exactly this, and it is indeed a bad encoder after all. I don't know how I missed this before.Here's the encoder output from the bad Siglent encoder:Here's the encoder output from the good Siglent encoder:And here's the output from the Bourns encoder:As you can see, the output from the bad encoder is horribly noisy. This iswiththe debounce circuitry as shown in the Bourns datasheet, which has the output pin connected to a 10 pF capacitor in series with a 10K resistor to ground (and also has the output pin connected through a 10K resistor to +5V, and common to ground, so you get an active low circuit as seen in the above screenshots). No wonder the scope didn't detect my inputs from it. No matter what, I'd have had to replace it. Just as well that I replaced both.You can also see how the inputs from the Bourns encoder are reversed in phase compared with the Siglent encoders.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 08:30:10 am
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 04, 2022, 05:10:45 amI had a "noise" problem with a rotary encoder on a bench PSU. Thorough rinsing with IPA was sufficient to clean out whatever was causing the problem.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 04, 2022, 05:35:10 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on April 04, 2022, 08:30:10 amOh, wow. That worked fantastically.If I ever need to replace these encoders again, I'll have ready-made replacements.EDIT: Well, it workedtemporarily. But the noise issue came back after it sat overnight. So I dropped some DeOxit into it and we'll see how long that lasts.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 05, 2022, 06:07:24 pm
content: Quote from: kcbrown on April 04, 2022, 05:35:10 pmNope, that also came back after it sat overnight.So I guess this encoder's basically done for any sort of production duty, at any rate.

author: kcbrown
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 17, 2022, 10:31:03 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 02:11:53 amIt turns out that I wound up solving the problem a bit differently than others might have. I noticed that there were other screws that attached the input board to the frame and which were behind the front plastic section that the label applies to. It turns out that this plastic section has a taper to it such that there's no distance between it and the input board at the bottom but there's some distance between it and the input board at the top, just enough for the heads of the screws at the top of the input board to fit behind. This fact caused me to look at how the front part of the housing was mounted to the frame, and to see whether the screws that sit behind the label are necessary for structural integrity. They're not, really.So I drilled out the holes in the front plastic section that those screws go through, such that their heads would be able to fit within the resulting widened holes, and then used those screws to attach the input board to the frame directlybeforeattaching the front housing to the frame.I then used transfer tape on the back of the sticker, andcarefullycut around the periphery of the sticker as well as the holes in the sticker, peeled the backing paper off, and then very carefully applied the label to the scope after it was fully assembled (after cleaning the area it was being applied to with IPA).The end result looks like I never took the thing apart. I'm very pleased with the result. The stuff is sticky enough that the label isn't going anywhere and with the alterations I made, I can disassemble the scope at will without having to worry about the sticker at all.If you ever decide to take your scope apart, Ihighlyrecommend re-assembling as described above so that you don't have to fool with the sticker ever again.

author: geneonline
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2022, 01:02:19 am
content: Thanks for the detailed write up and solutions! It has been a couple of months already and everything works really when and has been coming handy when doing experiments and testing at home. No issues with the encoders or dials on the silent oscilloscope. Feels smooth when using. Fairly responsive for my use cases. It just takes a minute to find features and functions in menus. Just will take time getting used to the locations. Cant thank you all enough getting me set up! May add a function generator this semester as I need to simulate AC currents different wave forms and measuring how different components effect the signals like phase shifts.May also invest in a bench DMM to help with log term monitoring and easier use. Not stressing about what to choose for these items as there is a lot of charts and fairly reliable for my remaining school/home projects.One thing I'm very curious about is a highly versatile 3-D printer to begin bringing ideas to form. I know of the basic filament material but not sure which would be good for the higher quality like abs filaments as I've already made a few things with PLA. Looking for stronger and lighter material.