$12 fake ipod  - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 01:44:44 am
content: how do they make them so damn cheap

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 01:58:40 am
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 01, 2016, 01:44:44 amThey often use software from CPU manufacturer's SDK as is, so no software cost.They have manufacturing equipment and people, if it is not utilized 100% by paying customers, it does nothing, so costs money. They load it with stuff they can sell as a minimal profit.That's the difference between western and eastern way of thinking. On the west, no one will drop the price for their merchandise, because they know, it will be hard to get it back.China has no problem with that, since there is no "brand image", as "brands" exist for a day or two and then go away.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 02:04:24 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on January 01, 2016, 01:58:40 amthanks

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:38:17 am
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 01, 2016, 01:44:44 am1. Nearly 10 years have elapsed since the genuine product was released. That's a lot of time for cheaper parts to be developed.2. Did you notice that the click wheel is fake? It doesn't sense rotation, it's just 5 push buttons, no touch sensitivity at all.3. Did you notice how slow the user interface reacted? Most likely the CPU used is far less powerful than what Apple put in the genuine article. (Probably the slowest, cheapest flash memory available, too.)4. I doubt any kind of tech support or meaningful warranty is included in that price.Speaking of tech support, I worked at an Apple store back then, when the 3rd gen iPod nano was released. And on occasion, people would come in for tech support for their iPod that they didn't realize was counterfeit. (Ebay was full of fakes then as now.) We'd photograph and document the fake and send the info to corporate, and had to disappoint someone who thought they were a customer, but weren't!!

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:41:22 am
content: Would it of killed them to put in a capacitive wheel?

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:49:54 am
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on January 01, 2016, 03:41:22 amIt would. The design requirement for $12 product is to use whatever leftovers they have at hand. And if they had a whole bunch of touch wheels, they would.But that would require software modification, so it is not likely to happen anyway.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:01:49 am
content: A "touch wheel" is just a PC-board pattern. No "parts" moving or otherwise.I'm considering using the linear version for a Camera Control Unit design.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:05:51 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 01, 2016, 04:01:49 amPlus software to support it.People really underestimate how little software development manufacturers of cheap products do. Foe example, ALL (dozens variations) players like this onehttp://www.dx.com/p/external-speaker-led-light-mini-metal-usb-mp3-player-420474have the same exact software. I happened to see SoC manufacturer's SDK for the chip they all use. Guess what, it is just a sample application from that SDK.I'm pretty sure this one had the same amount of work put into it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:11:30 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 01, 2016, 04:01:49 amNo parts, you say? I see at least three parts in the picture there, and while they do not rotate (only the very first iPod in 2001 had a physically rotating wheel), they are moving parts because they are push buttons. (Hence why Apple dubbed that device a "click wheel", not just scroll wheel.)

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 05:01:43 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2016, 04:11:30 amThat area of the PC board would be there however it is patterned. Imaging it with the required chevron-shape segments adds no incremental cost to the PC board.And likewise, the outside panel surface would be essentially unchanged whether there is a touchwheel behind the panel or not.The only difference is that Apple chose to add the four mechanical switches to the cardinal points of the circle. That was a design decision that is only coincidentally related to the touch-wheel design.Just a few days ago I came across a project that includes a touch-wheel. The developer has the touch-wheel board available for sharing on OHSpark...https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/cmmnjfmg

author: Aodhan145
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 02:43:34 pm
content: how did they add the buttons when the capacitive wheel is there?

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 02:48:41 pm
content: QuoteThe right question is "why is the real deal so damn expensive?"Your $800 iphone likely doesn't cost Apple much more than a couple hundred dollars to make. For current iPods, Apple's value add is its brand name, marketing / distribution, and consumer know-how. The engineering, manufacturing and integration are done by somebody else. Yet, Apple fans still pay through their nose.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:41:02 pm
content: Reminds me of this:

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 03:48:35 pm
content: Quote from: Aodhan145 on January 01, 2016, 02:43:34 pmIt appears that they made the capacitive wheel on thin PCB material, and then placed the little, cheap snap-dome mechanical switches UNDER the thin PC board wheel. So the whole round wheel structure bends when you push on a section where there is a switch underneath. Rather ingenious, actually. Apple probably has a patent on the concept.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 01, 2016, 02:48:41 pmAre you for real?Yes, Apple uses contract manufacturing, like every computer and phone maker other than Samsung. But Apple's engineering couldn't be more in house these days. Heck, Apple bought a freaking CPU company so it could design its own CPUs rather than rely on Samsung's designs. Apple stopped buying touch components from Synaptics and designed its own (years ago). Apple's modus operandi for many years now is to buy companies that design things Apple needs, so that it's brought in-house.Anti-Apple people like you love to try and have it both ways: claiming Apple doesn't do any engineering or design and just slaps its name on off the shelf parts, but also claiming Apple sucks for using only proprietary parts in its products. The fact that both cannot be true is lost on people whose only goal is to bash Apple, facts be damned.As for pricing: No, of course the BOM of an iPhone isn't the sale price. You have R&D to cover, the actual costs of manufacturing, packaging, shipping, warranty support costs, customer support (which Apple values highly), advertising, and of course profit. Yes, Apple has very healthy profit margins, but it's somewhere in the ballpark of 25% IIRC, which would make the actual total cost of goods sold about $600, not the $200-300 you're hinting at.And of course let's not forget that a top end Samsung phone also costs $800. They're not a damned cent cheaper in reality (as opposed to in the fantasies of people like you).

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 04:40:39 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2016, 04:14:43 pmActually, Apple "bought a freaking CPU company" so that they could customize the otherwise standard ARM design. And quite obviously so that they could reduce their dependence on one of their their chief rivals, Samsung.Maybe someday they can work their way up to making CPUs for their desktop and laptop products. Remember when they dumped Motorola/IBM and shocked everyone when they switched to Intel (which they had trash-talked previously)?QuoteAs well as otherwise appropriating designs of others. Which is why there are so many high-profile patent wars where you always find Apple on one side. I wonder what their ratio of engineers to attorneys is? (Especially if you include the headcount of their external law firms.)QuoteActually they appear to be world-class masters at having it BOTH ways. But nobody can deny that they are world-class masters at INTEGRATION and especially DESIGN. And operating a "walled garden" environment for hardware, software, and services makes it a much simpler world so they can make simple appliances for the masses. Since most consumers are low-tech appliance operators, Apple products offer a golden combination of good functionality, great design, and low-hassle operation. And consumers are willing to pay premium prices for that. Which is why Apple is one of the richest companies on the planet.Even if you dislike the "walled garden" environment, you must give them credit for giving the masses something for which they are willing to pay premium $$$.I wish I had kept that copy of a magazine that featured a tour of the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC). Showing the latest innovations in User Interface including a graphical interface with overlapping windows, and a mouse to control a free-ranging cursor. And in the same issue a small display advert in the back for the Apple 1 (Not the Apple II, the Apple 1, which was a raw PC board product).

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 05:41:31 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2016, 04:14:43 pmYup a high end Samsung, HTC, whatever Android phone is about the same price as an iPhone, but they do tend to be more powerful and have better batteries so you do get more for that cash. I'll admit that doesn't matter to everyone but an awful lot of people want high end tech when they pay for a high end phone and not a mid range phone. But it is easy for those of us in that camp to forget that Apple are first and foremost a fashion company and that that is actually an important part of their appeal to a lot of people.

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 05:50:27 pm
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 01, 2016, 01:44:44 amI just bought an MP3 player forEuro 2.39- Including an 8 GB SD Card- Including a Headset- Including a USB charging cable- Including shipping from HongKong to GermanyI have no idea of how they do it.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 05:58:20 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 01, 2016, 05:41:31 pmI'm not sure what scope there is for differentiation in lithium ion battery technology. The state of the art is improving gradually, but everyone can take advantage of it in newer products. You can make the batteries physically bigger (=> bigger device) and you can reduce power consumption in the device (better power management).More powerful CPUs tend to be more power hungry, so this goes against better battery life. I think you want the CPU to be just powerful enough to run intensive tasks smoothly, and no more.I noticed comparing my iPhone 6 to an Android device that he UI on the iPhone is smoother and more fluid, almost silky. On the Android phone it was a bit juddery. I also find the battery life on my iPhone is so long that I sometimes forget to charge it. I generally go days between charges.On balance I think everyone's latest devices are similar overall with an endless race to outdo the competition in each new evolution. You have to pick the mix of features you like best.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:12:45 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 01, 2016, 05:41:31 pmOh? Then how come practically every performance test shows iPhones wiping the floor with the Androids? The very latest Samsung Galaxy S6 only managed to catch up with last year's iPhone 6, but is far behind the iPhone 6S, in the all-important single-thread performance and JavaScript benchmarks. (Yes, the Galaxy S6 manages to beat the iPhones in synthetic multithread benchmarks because of its 8 cores, but most software cannot leverage multiple cores very well, and ends up constrained by single-core performance, where the Samsungs are rather weak.)See also:http://www.tomsguide.com/us/fastest-smartphone,review-2881.htmlQuote from: IanB on January 01, 2016, 05:58:20 pmPrecisely. Android devices have superior-looking specs on paper, but they do not translate into real-world performance. (Apple's CPUs manage to producefarmore performance per core per MHz than Samsung's.)Quote from: IanB on January 01, 2016, 05:58:20 pmYup, Apple engineered iOS from the beginning to prioritize user feedback, whereas Android was kinda rushed into a touch user interface after the iPhone was released. (Android was originally more of a Blackberry clone than an iPhone clone.) Android's original graphics layer was much like old fashioned GDI on Windows, and thus placed nearly all drawing in the CPU, rather than in the GPU as iOS has done from the beginning.) Android has made huge leaps since then, but the sheer number of Android devices on the market makes it hard for developers to do performance characterization that could help them speed things up.Quote from: IanB on January 01, 2016, 05:58:20 pmReally? Probably my biggest criticism of the iPhone is battery life. I wish Apple would sacrifice a millimeter of extra thickness and put in a fatter battery. I am a somewhat heavy user though. (The Plus size iPhones have appreciably longer life, but I don't want something that big.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:16:11 pm
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on January 01, 2016, 05:50:27 pmIf I had to guess, I'd say that probably they were factory rejects whose actual cost was factored into the units that passed full QC and are sold at full price. Selling the factory seconds at this cost is probably just recovering cents on the dollar, which is still better than simply disposing of them. (That the shipping is cheap is because China Post is subsidized, so the postage paid doesn't actually reflect the delivery cost.)

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:31:11 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2016, 06:12:45 pmI don't use my phone much for voice calls though. I mostly use it for messaging, email, web browsing and apps. I suspect that the transmit power required for voice calls is the biggest drain on the battery.I will say that I noticed a big difference between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 6. My iPhone 4 required charging overnight, every night. I was very surprised when I got my iPhone 6 and found the battery still quite full at the end of the first day.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:33:58 pm
content: I have no problem with my iPhone lasting all day. My GF, on the other hand, is constantly complaining that her GS3 is dead.My only real complaint is that they still have only 16GB storage in the base model and the up charge is just crazy at current memory prices.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:43:24 pm
content: I would agree that Apple is probably by far and away a marketing company of high fashion, particularly during Jobs' times.They have a superb understanding of consumers and unlike many of their peers who focused on the engineering and the products, Apple single-minded focused on delivering a superb consumer experience. They are absolutely amazing in that, and should be paid handsomely for that.The problem with that kind of business model is that it is very difficult to sustain, especially in a high-paced industry where changes (thus challenges) come by quickly and unexpectedly. I think their latest stumbles (watch, 6s and the pro, to name a few).At some times, Apple will have to refocus itself, relying more on innovation to sustain consumer interests. I was recently in China - Apple's largest market. The Chinese fascination to iPhone is amazing, especially among young people. And there lies Apple's biggest risk - every 5 or 6 out of 10 young Chinese already have an iPhone. Sure, they will upgrade and some of them do, but the domestic offerings (Huawei in particular) are looking more attractive and you can hear people mentioning them more and more.How and if Apple can sustain that "high fashion" there will determine its fate, I think over the last 2 - 3 years. If the downfall happens, like anything fad, it will happen quickly.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:49:01 pm
content: The phone business is interesting in its tale of two cities: you have Apple making ~95% of the profits, Samsung maybe ~15% of the profits, and everyone else losing money collectively.With phones getting increasingly commoditized, and the desire for profitability (and more rationality), I tend to think that the profit margins for Apple will compress, and the mid/low-end players will see an increase in ASP / margin, as many of them drop out of market.For a user of low-end phones, I fell bad for that,

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:50:57 pm
content: One thing where iPhones hold a significant edge over Android phones is battery life. The fact that Doze isn't implemented pre-Marshmallow is unthinkable, for any decent embedded engineer.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:52:29 pm
content: QuoteSome street vendors (phone repair shops in China) also offer that service. I never quite understood its appeal myself.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 06:53:19 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2016, 06:12:45 pmI wouldn't say those numbers represent the 6s wiping the floor with the half a year older S6, and it definitely doesn't show the S6 only just catching up with the iPhone 6 unless the 6s is no faster than the 6.It being only just faster for graphics intensive tasks when running a much lower resolution screen is very surprising too. I'd have expected more than a 1fps increase if it used a lower powered GPU. It would be interesting to know if the games tested use Metal on iOS. If so I would also expect a bigger difference in the fps given that through what I've heard it's about as good as D3D12 is and Vulkan will be/is claimed to be at reducing CPU load.I also don't know where they got those prices. A new contract-less S6 is £350 compared to £450-600 for the 6s...

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 07:16:54 pm
content: Here is an interesting article:http://androidcommunity.com/chinese-smartphone-companies-may-dominate-2016-traditional-big-oems-watch-out-20151231/It talked about some of the Chinese phone companies that may dominate 2016: Huawei, Xiaomi and OnePlus. Xiaomi is a knock-off of Apple and I don't think it has sustaining power. OnePlus is a fashion company as well, with some interesting products (like the recent OnePlus X). They are seldom heard of in China.I think there are other more interesting companies, Motorolla / Lenovo if they can survive, Oppo (great management), to name a couple.The most interesting is Huawei. To me, it poses the single biggest risk to Apple: it has extensive technical know-how, is vertically integrated, and is one of two Chinese companies (the other is Oppo) pursuing a premium strategy -> some of the highend Huawei phones are more expensive than Apple's and they are selling. They are very strong in SoC, battery and now RF design capabilities. The YoY growth figures I have heard people whispering is mind-boggling and would blow even Apple away.Their biggest hurdle, which unfortunately may not be easily overcome, is their parent. Huawei can IPO that thing down the road - I see many investors drooling on that - or the Chinese government may stand behind it and start a trade war over it.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 08:07:55 pm
content: QuoteVery undisciplined management that lacks vision and doesn't understand their core value-add.I don't think they have staying power.QuoteIf it were not for national security concerns, Cisco would have been killed off by Huawei long time ago.For that very reason, Huawei will never dominate the world.

author: coppice
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 08:21:40 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 01, 2016, 07:16:54 pmOnePlus is a subsidiary of Oppo, which is a subsidiary of BBK. They use the Oppo and BBK names in China. Many high streets have an Oppo phone shop, just as they have a XiaoMi phone shop.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 11:31:16 pm
content: QuoteApple customers have been conditioned to expect that as well.Good business practice.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 11:32:36 pm
content: I've never really understood the apple thing. I can see that their products are a little better quality than most, but at something like a 10% price premium for every 1-2% better quality, buying anything from them just doesn't make sense to me.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 11:43:36 pm
content: QuoteWhile it may not make sense to us, it makes perfect sense that to someone else with a different quality / price preference, it does.See plenty examples in cars, watches, clothes, wives / husbands, houses, ........ Such a diversity is a good thing, especially if you can exploit it.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2016, 11:53:02 pm
content: I'll just stick with my $15 GoPhone. I can call people and get calls from people. That's the only use I have for a phone. Service cost is usually just $100 a year that way, which means more money in my bank account.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:11:52 am
content: QuoteMy main phone is a sub-$10 Motorola. But the fact that we find iPhone's quality / price trade-off unfavorable shouldn't prevent us from appreciating the fact that other people may find the same trade-off favorable.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:20:12 am
content: This discussion got me to think the phones I bought / got from 1/1/15 through 1/1/16:iPhone 6s/6s+: 4x (including one today, all as gifts); great camera software;Moto E: 3x; Terrific battery life; and terrible camera; My main phone.Moto G: 2x; A good all around phone;LG G4: 2x (SingTel dual lte + verizon); Great camera, terrible software. OK battery life. The SingTel version would have been a great travel phone if it had more lte bands;LG Volt: 1x; great battery life;Huawei P8: 1x; a tad too big for me. OK battery life;Huawei P8Lite: 1x; a tad too big. OK battery life; my main travel phone - loves its dual sim;Ericsson T39m (used): 1x; got the first one 10+ years ago. An amazing phone for its time;Oneplus X (got as a gift): 1x; Amazing look / feel. Wish it had more bands. Or it would have been my main travel phone.Waiting for Huawei to release a smaller version (<5in) of its Mate 8.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:45:37 am
content: Quote from: edy on January 01, 2016, 03:41:02 pmnice review

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:49:10 am
content: Quote from: HighVoltage on January 01, 2016, 05:50:27 pmyeah i just bought for fun a 1.24usd free shipping mp3 player with screen and plays mp3 from sd card does not come with one and has fm radio and can record it too also has built in speaker too

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 12:54:44 am
content: you can even get this mp3 player for less then $1usdhttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-Mini-Mirror-Clip-Mp3-Sport-Player-With-TF-Card-Slot-Support-Up-To-8GB-Purple/32440421680.html?spm=2114.01010108.3.2.f2NgXq&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_5_79_78_77_82_80_62_81_61,searchweb201560_2i used to own one of these i got like 5hrs of music playback and it took over an hr to charge i just wish these dirt cheap mp3 players could have a shuffle button

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:12:41 am
content: I have seen people repositioning some of those Taiwanese 8051-based MP3 players as LCR meters. Those chips go for less than a quarter each.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:20:06 am
content: I wonder if these areS1 MP3 players... all of the fake/cheapo media players I had were all like this. Great for modding the interface!

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:25:10 am
content: QuoteThey are typically OTP. And you have to have the IDE to develop code -> jumping through hoops to get a NDA signed and you wouldn't talk to you if you are not ordering 100s of thousands of those little buggers.So the answer is no, unless you are already working with one of those things.

author: all_repair
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 01:32:27 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 01, 2016, 08:07:55 pm

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 02:22:48 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on January 02, 2016, 01:20:06 ami still have that same mp3 player in the photo on wikipedia bought it back in 2007 was a 2gb model cost me $69.99nzd on clearance now you can get them for $10nzd or less how times have changed

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 02:40:51 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 02, 2016, 01:32:18 amThere's also this:http://s1mp3.w1r3.de/download.html, which has development tools of some sort for the S1MP3 players.There are also graphical mods (changing the theme, colours) on theforum, but it's been dead for about 4 years.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 02:44:18 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on January 02, 2016, 02:40:51 amthanks for that link

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 06:07:21 am
content: It's an S1MP3(4), no doubt. Based on the infamous Actions Semi SoCs, which are Z80-based.These fakes included extra features like sound recording, FM radio, andvideoyears before Apple did. All with higher parts integration and lower cost:http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=139Apple needed 32MB of RAM, two 80MHz ARMs, and around a half dozen ICs in total plus tens of MB firmware, and didn't have as much functionality as the Chinese with a 60MHz Z80 (up to; usually runs at 24MHz) + DSP, <128KB of RAM, and ~1MB firmware in a 2/3-IC solution (NAND + SoC + optional FM radio.)Very interesting devices. I worked on hacking these a few years ago, you can read more here:http://wiki.s1mp3.org/Hardwarehttp://wiki.s1mp3.org/User:Amyk

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 09:58:44 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 02, 2016, 06:07:21 amthanks for the info

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 02, 2016, 07:45:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 01, 2016, 06:53:19 pmGo find more numbers, then. You'll find the Galaxy S6 basically barely catching up with the iPhone 6 (which was already six months old at the time the Galaxy S6), and the iPhone 6S handily beating both the iPhone 6 and the Galaxy S6.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 05:31:57 am
content: Quote from: amyk on January 02, 2016, 06:07:21 amThere's third party firmware to add a lot of extra features to an iPod.http://www.rockbox.org/

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 07:08:25 am
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on January 03, 2016, 05:31:57 amrockbox is really good 100 times better then apple stock firmware wish they could make something like this for the zune 30gb model as i got a refurbished one about 5 years ago for $50usd free shipping looks brand new and its much better then an ipod just sucks there is no rockbox support

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 01:06:16 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 02, 2016, 07:45:43 pmYourprovided numbers showed the 6s just beating the older S6, numbers you just posted expecting no one to check on because they didn't back up what you claimed. You provided a link that didn't support what you said but it's my fault because I can't find the numbers to back up your claim?The S6 is almost a third to half the price and only just beaten in single core only tests by the 6s*, only beaten by 1fps on specially selected games while having to run a much higher res screen, and whooped it's arse in multi threaded apps so will when multitasking too. Doesn't support your claim that iPhones are cheaper and far out in front.*And not even using the same apps so not a like for like comparison.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 02:27:11 pm
content: Apple controls both hardware and software, so can integrate them well, which is possible if you have near absolute control over both and can make direct calls to the functions without translation. Android has to have interface shims for many different models and resolutions, along with different processors, so there will always be a performance penalty.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 05:40:02 pm
content: I'm currently looking for a replacement for Itunes to manage the content on an iPod. Even Apple fanatics hate Itunes which Apple has bloated with cruft and turned into a marketing tool rather than a utility for the convenience of their customers.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 06:04:23 pm
content: QuoteIt being an apple device, your choices are limited. If the software is in an open format (like mp3), there is an alternative that I just learned in China: netease cloud music.This is an app that allows downloading, streaming and management of local content. It is absolutely wonderful in China, with mostly songs fully accessible. Outside of China, DRM kicks in and you may not have access to some of the content - the situation varies depending where you are and how much you pay and what you are willing to do to circumvent it.But it has no DRM for locally available content. So I just copied my content onto a sd card and put it inside of my phone and I am ready to go.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 06:10:42 pm
content: Actually, because Apple has pissed off so many of their customers, the choices are actually quite numerous. I'm not having any problem finding apps, I'm having a problem deciding which ones to try.The issue isn't format (MP3, AAC, WAV, WMA, et.al.) Or transferring files. Or even DRM (which Steve Jobs removed). The primary issue is constructing the database that the iPod uses to organize tracks, display names, album images, etc. There is enough reverse-engineered open information for me to write my own software, but I have better things to do with my time."Cloud" is a big negative for me. That is one of the things that Apple customers are complaining about. Having all of their privately loaded files deleted and "replaced" by access to cloud-based files which not only require network access, but may not even be the same content as what Apple "assumed". That is a big hot-button for newer versions of Itunes.i.e. I want absolutely NOTHING to do with "the cloud" or anything that requires network access. I quite often want to listen to things when I am out of range of WiFi or even cell data service.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 06:43:34 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 03, 2016, 06:10:42 pmlibimobiledevice is your friend. I'm sure there's plenty of programs that use it, maybe someone has even done some desktop integration (I personally prefer file managers over media managers) depending on your platform of choice.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2016, 11:42:28 pm
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 01, 2016, 04:40:39 pmFrom what it appears, PA Semi's ARM designs were not just minor tweaks of ARM reference designs, but rather quite different ones. (PA Semi is the company Apple bought.) In any event, where Apple's ARM designs are now is quite distant from everyone else's, and CPU experts have been praising them for their performance.Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 01, 2016, 04:40:39 pmIt's certainly plausible. The iPad Pro's CPU performance is within spitting distance of low-end laptop CPUs.Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 01, 2016, 04:40:39 pmYup. Though it wasn't entirely a shock, given that it had already leaked at the time that at one point, Apple had gotten System 7 running on a 486, and of course there was the fact that NeXTStep had been renamed OpenStep and was being run solely on Intel CPUs at the time Apple bought NeXT. (IIRC, the very earliest releases of Rhapsody ran on x86.)What's interesting about the transition is that for OS X Universal Binaries, they didn't use NeXT's fat binaries, but instead created a different one. (I don't know any more about that, unfortunately.)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 12:35:46 am
content: Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 03, 2016, 01:06:16 pmDude, relax! No need to get your panties in a twist!The one link I provided, actually as an afterthought (with no claims of it supportingeverythingI said), was just one source, and it showed the iPhone 6S besting the Samsung in nearly every test. We obviously have a difference of opinion in what constitutes a significant speed difference.When I told you to go find more numbers, I really was just saying, go look for more numbers, you'll find them. No flippancy intended.Here's a great example: JavaScript performance. There's no question that it's an Android software problem causing the bulk of the disparity. But to a user, that's irrelevant. They launch Chrome on their Samsung and they don't carewhyweb pages perform 3x as slow on their Galaxy S6 as on last year's iPhone 6. They just see it's slower. (JS performance is, of course, extremely important. Galaxy users shouldn't have to resort to Samsung's proprietary browser to get good performance.)Here's the numbers:iPhone 5 (2012): 340msiPhone 5S (2013): 175msiPhone 6 (late 2014): 140msGalaxy S6 (early 2015): 400msiPhone 6S (late 2015): <70msSource:https://meta.discourse.org/t/the-state-of-javascript-on-android-in-2015-is-poor/33889In any case, it certainly lays to rest the common claims that Apple is sellinginferiorproducts at inflated prices. Ignoring the price aspect completely, it's clear that for a normal user, it's at minimum competitive, and often superior.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 03, 2016, 01:06:16 pmA third of the price?!? That's quite an extraordinary claim. Do you have a source for that? In reality (ignoring my "not one cent cheaper" hyperbole in my early post), the Samsungs are a smidgen cheaper, but not by huge margins.For example, in USA,AT&T's unsubsidized price for the 64GB iPhone 6S is $749, while the 64GB Galaxy S6 is $685. Here in Switzerland,Salt(the carrier I use) charges CHF879 for the 64GB iPhone 6s and CHF799 for the 32GB Galaxy S6 (they don't appear to carry the 64GB). Another carrier here,Swisscom, charges the same CHF879 for the 64GB iPhone 6S, but just CHF699 for the 64GB Galaxy S6.So yes, the Samsung is a bit cheaper, and clearly there are differences between retailers, but in no case are we even remotely near the 1/3–1/2 price you're claiming.The price differences do vary by country, so I've provided links to the sites I referred to myself. In all cases, I'm comparing the full retail price, ignoring any specials going on, since they're not representative of the normal price. Similarly, I'm ignoring all contract subsidies, since they mask the true cost of the phone.Here's a comparison from apopular UK mobile retailer:Galaxy S6 edge 128GB: £780iPhone 6S 128GB: £699Galaxy S6 128GB: £600Again, the Samsung prices are nowhere near the 50–67% cheaper that you've claimed.Quote from: Mechanical Menace on January 03, 2016, 01:06:16 pmWell, not all apps are available on both platforms.

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 01:20:29 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 01, 2016, 07:35:25 pmIt may well be that they are at a stage of development that innovation is not longer cost effective. Business majors are not math focus. Their term for this stuff: The "S-Curve" Technology life cycle.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_life_cycleOr, just look at it as an S rotated clockwise slightly. Take the X axis as time, and Y axis as ROI (return on investment).The company (pre-acquisition) now is at the stage of curving up to the top of the S (dy/dx decreasing and is approaching zero: approaching where ROI is flat and begin decline). Investing more money into the technology is no longer worthwhile. You get better return putting the money into blue-chip stocks.At this stage, further innovation is no longer a sensible business venture, but a scientific venture only. So, re-deploy the $ is the way to go.So, company is sold to bean-counters. Sold to the company who's CEO was their former CFO, and accountingistheir core competence. Now is the time to squeeze the last dollar out of that technology. Focus is on Operations and not technology. Investment is in manufacturing and not R&D.Company with CEO who was a technologist, eventually would be replaced by a CEO who was an accountant. Yeah, I know I said CFO before, but that was a long time ago when the company still got some worth-while ROI left to target. The accountant-CEOs will account for every dollar until there is no more money left to account for. Mean time, changing hands from high-end (higher cost) operators (where dy/dx is still >0), to lower and lower cost operators.Eventually, even bottom feeders can't find enough food. That is when the physical assets - building, land, lights, forklifts... will now be on the market. The accountant would not be the last one to leave and turned out the lights. The lights (and perhaps the building) would have long since been sold...That may be sad, but that is progress. Steam engine trains is still a favorite activity for many, but surely not for commuters fighting their ways to their offices these days.

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 01:29:19 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 03, 2016, 05:40:02 pmYou are not joking with the iTunes bloatware. But try downloading Microsoft Visual Studio Community Edition 2015. It gives bloatware another dimension. Microsoft cannot even get the installation to work properly with their own Windows 7 or 10.But iTunes is more crapware than bloatware. It is too badly designed to work intuitively. It will even DELETE files in an iPod without even *&#^$ telling you. I have a relative who had an iPod Nano. At the time there were no alternatives to iTunes. After relentless iTunes problems, she threw the iPod Nano in the bin and bought a quality non-Apple music player on eBay with a simple file system that was so easy to use. She has never looked back.You may want to do the same. Jobs is dead. So should be his iTunes.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 01:34:28 am
content: QuoteXiaoMi's innovation definitely is not on technology, on their products, nor the ecosystem - which had they done it would have made the company much more valuable.Their innovation is time to a market that was exploding, and a business model of telling good looking product cheaply, with no clearly articulated strategy of making money eventually.XiaoMi is far more desirable among those who have not experienced it than those who have. That, I think, is the source of those endless rumors of it being over-valued.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 01:50:40 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on January 04, 2016, 01:29:19 amAs a long-time Mac user, I lament what iTunes has turned into. It was sleek and intuitive for many years, retaining the logic of the third-party MP3 program (SoundJam MP) it was descended from. But little by little, it's accreted so much cruft, and Apple's recent attempts to clean it up have only made it worse.One thing though: iTunes will tell you when it's gonna wipe an iPod (i.e. when someone syncs it to a different iTunes library). It doesn't tell you about syncing, though, because it's always been designed around the iPod being the satellite and the iTunes library being the master, with the iPod following what the library does, not the other way around. (This simply doesn't work for people who want tomovemusic onto their iPod rather thancopying— that is, people who want to copy onto the iPod and then delete from the computer. Apple doesn't really support that paradigm, and I'm inclined to agree!)

author: Rick Law
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 02:06:07 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 04, 2016, 01:34:28 amPardon the pun. Then the "S" curve described them "To the T (Tee)".They buy technology company, then focusing on execution (market timing is one). They will execute better and from that, they will make more money than those who were owners of the company did. Regardless of whether they can or not, some time down the road, the accounting-CEO is waiting. How long the wait depends on how well these particular buyer is executing for now.Either way, they are seeing that ROI in innovation in technology is a smaller ROI than investing in execution. Or rather, at least the ones with the gold think so anyway - golden rule: the one with the gold makes the rule.

author: rrinker
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 02:07:59 am
content: ITunes has always been junk as far as the Windows version is concerned. One of the LAST things to do is ever check the box that says "Allow iTunes to manage music library" because the stinking thing can't even get the MP3 tags correct. After having ~100 CDs ripped off from my car (conveniently for the thief, all in a nice carrying case), the first thing I do with a new CD is rip it to MP3 and, well, these days, just load the MP3 on my iPhone to play in my car. ITunes will show the songs I just ripped as coming from a different album than the one I ripped it from. Say what? I have all my music organized by folders on my server, so I just NEVER let iTunes organize anything, and live with sometimes incorrect album displays during playback (in my car, the phone is usually tossed in a cupholder anyway, I have BT integration to take calls, and there's iPod integration with my stereo to play the music, so I never have to look at the phone. I keep thinking I should take my old iPhone and semi-permanently wire it in the trunk and just leave it).I did find a handy piece of software called Syncios which lets me just drag and drop files to iDevices, much like Android showing as an external drive. It was a huge PITA taking ebooks that I had and getting them on my iPad via iTunes, this software makes it stupidly simple. It's also nice that newer versions of iOS allow download into iBooks and other apps - I subscribe to some online PDF format magazines and this was one of the big pains, having to download the PDF on my desktop, copy it to the proper folder for iTunes to see, and then sync it. Now I can just go to the site in Safari on the iPad and download the issue, and just tap and select "Open in iBooks"It's funny how many were complaining at the price of a MacBook Pro or Air, and at how the components were all soldered in. But price a similar performance and size (especially size) laptop from Dell, HP, Lenovo, or whoever. Why, it costs the same as the equivalent MacBook. And open it up - oh lookie, the RAM is all soldered in, the battery is glued in and hard wired to the board - all to save critical Z height of all those connectors.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 02:48:39 am
content: Quote from: rrinker on January 04, 2016, 02:07:59 amWeeeeeiiiird. I've never heard of iTunes doing that, even on Windows. (The biggest difference I've noticed is that on Windows, it tends to have more lag and random  hangs.) I've always advised people that thefirstthing they should do is to allow iTunes to manage the library, because otherwise, people lose track of what is where and either end up deleting the only copies they have, or end up with umpteen duplicates. (On the Mac, letting iTunes manage the library is the default.) I've spent way too much time detangling people's libraries who thought they were smarter than iTunes and tried to manage it themselves. (Not saying you're dumber than iTunes — as members of an engineering forum, we're atypical users by definition!) Mind you, I've got extensive experience supporting end users.Quote from: rrinker on January 04, 2016, 02:07:59 amI know. It's maddening that people will say Apple is expensive because they compare a 15" 1366x768, 9lb, fan-like-a-dentist's-drill, basic Windows machine, and compare its price to a MacBook Air or Pro, and declare Macs expensive. No, Apple doesn't delve into the low end, but its prices are pretty much the same as any other machine of similar specs, if you include weight, thickness, battery life, build quality, etc. (I usually give Lenovo as the comparison.)I remember long ago when I bought my 2008 Mac Pro (8-core Xeon workstation). For shits and giggles, I compared what Dell had to offer at the time. Dell's Dimension workstation had the same CPU clock speed (but on a slower system bus) but was fully $1100 more expensive than the Mac Pro, and was inferior in every spec (other than perhaps a bigger hard disk).

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 03:27:07 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2016, 02:48:39 amIt has happened to me more than once, and I have many friends who have asked me to help them recover when it happened to them. That is why I wouldn't touch Itunes with a 3m barge-bole.I'm beginning to think they are right. It matters not how elegant an cool the iPod is if you can't do simple content management on the darn things. Anybody want to buy my iPod nano? One of those $12 things should replace it nicely.

author: Mechanical Menace
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 04:04:23 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 04, 2016, 12:35:46 amAnd that's not a comparison of hardware. Which is what I was on about in my original post. And to some users yes it is relevant. I'll admit to some, maybe most, it isn't but that was one of the points I made in my original post.QuoteI meant to say a third to half cheaper, referring to when I said the S6 was at the £350-380 new unlocked vs a range of £450-£600 for the iPhone. After a closer look it's actually £325-491* vs £500-674**. My source Google shopping.QuoteYou weren't responding to the common claim, you were responding to my post lol. I claimed less hardware for more money. I even went on to basically say: "They aren't for me, don't offer what I want and I don't want what they offer. But some others find the value in what they do and how they do it. Different strokes." :in the post you originally responded toQuoteWhich sort of defeats the whole point lol.QuoteI thought I made it clear in what you responded to I was talking about myself and a certain subset of people, not the average user. To me multithreaded performance, something you've made it clear you think is unimportant, is very important. Also to me JavaScript is of very little importance if it's usable. A software update could vastly improve it too while an update could bring it to a crawl on the 6s. Wouldn't suddenly mean the CPUs on all effected Android devices have suddenly got 3 times+ better and the effected iDevices have got 3 times+ worse.QuoteCompetitive I'd agree, I never said otherwise. Wouldn't agree with superior, well not since they gave up on PPC on Macs anyway.And I had no knots in my elastic, I was just trying to respond in a similar tone as you did*I forgot about the 128gig model.**The cheaper ones I saw before, one was a refurb, the other "£600 now then an 18 month contract..."

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 04:34:24 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 03, 2016, 05:40:02 pmi just use PodTrans i hate itunes

author: HighVoltage
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 07:19:06 am
content: You can also try iToolsBut you need a few iTunes DLL's installed

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 11:13:16 am
content: Another advantage the fakes have over the real device: no iTunes, just the usual USB mass storage device.

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 11:27:09 am
content: Agree with all regarding itunes, simply awful, I'm no apple fanboy but I loved my ipods for running (you do have to acknowledge they are a neat little unit) however my itune experience made me swear off them when my nano went though the wash once too often.I tried a few of those ebay cheapo MP3 players with poor results before settling on Sansa Clip MP3 player, easy to use, good battery life, love it and highly recommend it.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2016, 01:58:25 pm
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 04, 2016, 04:34:24 amThanks.I installed PodTrans and it seems pretty nice.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 12:42:06 am
content: It is a fool's errand to compare today's phones on "benchmarks" as they all are more than sufficiently fast for an average user.For me, the industry's focus on processing power or screen resolution or thinness is misplaced. The biggest hurdle today is battery life.For my perspective, iPhones are almost perfect: the first worldphone and practically only game in town; good battery life (particularly standby); great screen; fabulous camera experience; and overall well thought-out and great user experience (with some caveats).Its downside? no back button; home key; maybe a tad too big. and the killer #1 issue for me: no dual sim support. For people who travel a lot, that's just a killer.Android phones offers a lot of variety (almost too much). But most don't even come close to iphones in terms of band supports (gsm/cdma + lte), battery life, camera performance, and overall user experience. The newer Nexuses are closest in terms of being a worldphone.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 12:45:06 am
content: On itunes: last time I used it for music, it was like 10 years ago. No compliant and really liked it. I still use it today for phones from time to time and have yet to run into issues there.Most of my music is on phones now. Apple music works very well for me still - netease music is very nice and competitive but is crippled outside of China.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 01:53:20 am
content: Really? Sorry to hear that. I had a great time playing with it while in China but now use it to play local content - streaming isn't possible where I live.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 03:15:49 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 04, 2016, 01:58:25 pmglad you like it

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 12:06:31 pm
content: I used a foreign sim to roam in china so the great wall was of no concern to me, unless I went to wifi or on a local sim.I was in china through late December and netease music was just fine. No signs of any crack down, unless I roames on the foreign sim - then all was blocked.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 02:03:56 pm
content: I forgot one more knock to the iphone, the inability to stop it from updating ios. It annoys me to no end.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 03:02:11 pm
content: Huh? It asks you. It does not install updates without your permission.

author: crispy_tofu
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2016, 11:24:27 pm
content: It doesn't install without your permission, but it automatically downloads (sometimes taking up gigabytes), which is quite annoying...

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 01:42:11 am
content: i have reviewed this mp3 player i got in the post the other daysorry its not a great review

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 02:18:13 am
content: Unlike you guys, I am too poor to buy cheap stuff.

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 03:01:23 am
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 06, 2016, 02:18:13 amBut buying over-priced, super-hyped, trendy bling, makes no sense, either.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 07:44:58 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 06, 2016, 03:01:23 am

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 08:40:45 am
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 06, 2016, 01:42:11 amI actually have one. Nice voice recorder though, it is a really good voice recorder, and will last around 3 hours on a single AAA cell doing record. The AAA cell runs for around 2 days of use. I rarely use it though, I have one with a better UI, though my one is a lot older than the one there, sinlge display colour only.

author: timb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 08:52:09 am
content: Quote from: crispy_tofu on January 05, 2016, 11:24:27 pmYes, this is a problem that has started since iOS 8. Go to the Apple feedback page and voice your issue with it. It's the only way we'll get them to add an option.It's such a simple thing, too. A lot of people have capped home internet plans, and a single 1.5GB update could blow through half or more of their monthly allotment. It's happened to me, in fact, when my home DSL was down and I was tethered from my iPad to my iPhone. The iPad said, "Hey, we're on WiFi and plugged in, let's be super smart and download this update in the background without asking!"Cost me $10, so I bitched to Apple, kept escalating my complaint and they finally gave me three months of iTunes Music and a $10 App Store credit.

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 09:43:01 am
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 06, 2016, 08:40:45 amany pics of your one im interested to see the UI

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 12:16:15 pm
content: Quote from: timb on January 06, 2016, 08:52:09 amBut that is antithetical to their whole concept of making simple appliances that people can use without having to think. If they made toasters, they probably wouldn't include the darkness control.They regularly violate that rule attributed to Al Einstein: "Things should be made as simple as possible, but no more so." Quite a contrast to IBM's motto: "Think"

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 01:21:12 pm
content: Quote from: sony mavica on January 06, 2016, 09:43:01 amAbsolutely identical except the grey silvered polystyrene case it has. Identical UI icons and such, but I would have to find a AAA cell to power it up, seeing as I have not used it for around 5 years. Only thing I see new is using a multicolour LED display illumination IIRC my one is simply green.I am looking for a cheap one that has a RDS display on FM radio. Anybody seen a cheap one?

author: sony mavica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 06, 2016, 09:43:33 pm
content: Quote from: SeanB on January 06, 2016, 01:21:12 pmcheapest i could see was 19.27usd fm radio with RDS but that was a mobile phone

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: January 07, 2016, 06:22:24 am
content: Quote from: Richard Crowley on January 06, 2016, 12:16:15 pmSo very true. It is blind trust - in the most absolute sense I could express.QuoteI like this analogy. Apple will tellyouwhat kind of toast is best for you.Yep. I like it a lot.QuoteI see this violation appearing more and more - and it is degrading our ability (as a society) to maintain an understanding of the world around us.The automotive world is a classic example. The developments that gave us more reliable vehicles, better fuel economy, lower emissions and the like are to be applauded. However, driving a vehicle requires an understanding of not just the mechanical operations, but of the physics (in a dynamic, real-world setting, not a mathematical one) and the road rules.However, the most important one (IMO) is one of observation - keeping your eyes open and your brain in gear. Yet we are now seeing technology that is actively encouraging negligence in this area. Cars that will brake if you get too close to the one in front, plus lane departure warnings and lane change warnings, just to name a few. Good grief people ... just look!I can see it now. The Apple car will be the pinnacle of automotive technology. Self piloting, Self maintaining. You might be late for work, but because the fuel level is below a quarter, it will stop off and fill up - even though a quarter tank is good enough for 3 days' travel. It does this because it knows it will give you a superior 'experience' because a full tank is better for you.I shudder to think what might happen if you tell it your destination is 'Work'. It might even decide you would be better off working somewhere else - which you will find out when you get there.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 12:54:48 pm
content: "I don't think they have staying power."There is an article in the journal about xiaomi under pressure from investors to prove value/valuation.Looks like they want to be more focused on the core business and to figure out a way to make money off of its ecosystem - aka be more Apple-ish.Good luck.

author: mikerj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 01:38:31 pm
content: Quote from: dannyf on January 05, 2016, 12:42:06 amAfter a couple of iPhones and a few Android phones I went with a Windows phone and have stuck with it. Well made phones, great battery life, the best quality camera available at the time (Lumia 925) and one of the smoothest performing interfaces ever. Not so great if you want access to every app ever made.

author: dannyf
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2016, 11:44:14 pm
content: I had two 520 and loved their cameras. Battery life was OK, screen sucked. Bluetooth horrendous.Of all the phones I have used, two stood out as examples of superb engineering and product positioning: moto e and lg volt.The moto e has phenominon battery life, near stock Android, good ergonomics, a superb audio section and fm radio. Sd micro card. Some versions of it are also world phones too.All of that for a poultry sum of 10 USD.My only complaints are single sim and a camera that's too sub par.It is now my main phone.Too bad that motorolla is going to kill it.

author: MT
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 13, 2016, 12:44:19 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on January 01, 2016, 07:00:42 pmSo in the west girls flock if you had a guitar in east they flock if you had an IPhone!What do that tell us?