University Choices - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: 42Bits
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 09:31:12 am
content: I'm doing my QTAC application at the moment for my university choices. So I wanna know what would be the best courses for electronics out of these two.https://www.usq.edu.au/study/degrees/associate-degree-of-engineering/electrical-electronic-engineeringhttps://www.usq.edu.au/study/degrees/associate-degree-of-engineering/computer-systems-engineering#overviewAnd here are the courses handbook:https://www.usq.edu.au/handbook/current/engineering-built-environment/ADNG.html

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 09:57:53 am
content: My opinion on those two course would have zero valueIMNSHO the key points are:work out what is rightfor you, which may not be the same as for other peoplea good university with a recognised department running your course will look good on a CVgo and see as many departments and people as possible on open days. Your understanding will improve with every visit, and you will become more certain you have made a good choicework out what you want to learn (and why); ask questions on open daysdo a project outside your course. Interviewers like to see ademonstrationthat you like the subject, candefinedifficult but realistic goals,implementthem - and then articulate what you would dobetternext timeIgnore people that say "theory is bunk, I knew a PhD that...". Theory without practice is mental masturbation. Practice without theory is alchemical blind fumbling (and results in square wheels and systems that don't work).Be aware of the difference between doctors and nurses.Neither is better, they have complementary skills and weaknesses.If I need a needle inserted, a nurse is probably the right person. If I want a diagnosis, a doctor is probably the right person. Doctor=engineer, nurse=technician.Good luck, and have fun.

author: 42Bits
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 10:20:23 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 01, 2019, 09:57:53 amWhy is that ?

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 10:42:46 am
content: Recognize you're talking to an international audience, and while some of us may know the subject matter, most of us don't know the school system where live. From context, I'm guessing QTAC is some sort of qualifying exam?However, I note that over half the courses for each choice are the very same. And the "Power Engineering" option seems to be a third mix of the same material. So if you focus on most of those, do you even have to make that decision yet? And even if you do, can you change your mind later if you find yourself going the other way?

author: ArthurDent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2019, 04:02:47 pm
content: As others have said we can't make any suggestions because we have no idea what you really want to do and it looks like you're not certain at this point in time either.Nusa has what I feel is the best suggestion. Where both of these paths have similar courses, just make your best guess at to what is the best curriculum and after a semester or two you may find that this isn't what you want and you can switch majors (or whatever it is called in your area).Where both paths are somewhat different you might have to take a couple extra specific courses if you switch from one to the other but this shouldn't be a big problem if you switch early enough.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 01:48:29 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 01, 2019, 09:57:53 amIn the real world, we have a bit of "blurring" of the lines, with "Nurse Practitioners" & "Technical Officers".Interestingly, in Oz, a "Lab Technician" at a Uni will normally have a Degree qualification.I worked for a time at UWA, & was a Technician who worked on Lab equipment, but was not a "Lab Technician".

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 01:50:23 am
content: Quote from: 42Bits on August 01, 2019, 09:31:12 amDoesn't matter too much, but I'd go for the more generic Electric/Electronic over the computer one.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 01:53:38 am
content: Quote from: 42Bits on August 01, 2019, 09:31:12 amAn associate EE course is now only 2 years?This used to be 3 year course.That will drop you down the "official" ladder:

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 06:50:07 am
content: Quote from: vk6zgo on August 02, 2019, 01:48:29 amWe have similar things over here, too, mainly as a result of there not being enought money to have enough doctors.Since the OP is young and has a lot to absorb, I wanted to keep the points simple. However, your point correctly illustrates that the world is shades of gray, rather than blask and white.QuoteOver here in recent decades the content of a "degree" has widened considerably, and you can get degrees in ridiculous subjects and degrees with widely varying intellectual content. That's a shame, because schoolkids in families without experience of higher education either don't realise the differences or don't have the skills to be able to choose - and may accidentally make bad choices. Plus the human resources droids, who almost always lack the skills to choose technically competent candidates, so have to rely on bits of paper.All decent engineers know their limitations and rely on technicians, and vice versa. Unfortunately those with Dunning-Kruger syndrome often make the most noise.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 07:55:08 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 02, 2019, 06:50:07 amThat's for me is the bad in the working recruitment. If the CV doesn't have the words they are seeking then not even a glance they give to it. I'm not saying to contract everyone or give a try to everyone but for example join a group of people, do a group meeting and then call each individual aside with someone responsible for the department in question and knows what the work is and do a test with questions or even problems that they have and ask how that individual would solve it. I saw enough good people be turned away because they don't had the magical words on the CV but being great professionals and willing to learn and rise above colleagues in knowledge.Before I exit Portugal, I gave the normal 2 months info to the company that I was going to exit and to them to find a replacement. They got 5 replacements and none of them fitted what we needed, even having the words in the CV that the company was looking for. I looked inside and in one of the departments found someone that I known there for a while as a very hard working guy with the will to learn. Give him a try for 3 weeks, sigh him for the department where I was, exit, and now 7 months after one of my old colleagues told me that the guy I invited is very good. Although his CV didn't had the magic words and the work he was doing before was totally different.Currently I'm having that problem here, in Shenzhen/Hong Kong. I came to a place were the skills that I have a lot of people have and are nationals, not Foreigner as me. So by being a Foreigner and not being yet good at the language I'm on a big disadvantage at start. Plus why would they put a foreigner with work experience when they can look for someone starting now that it's cheaper and his mind is not ''western polluted" as I normally say (rights of workers, freedom of information, etc)?

author: 42Bits
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 07:59:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 02, 2019, 01:50:23 amYea, but I'm interested in how do circuits in computer hardware work e.g RAM, CPU, GPU and PCB. So I wanna know what would be the best for that, out of these two degrees ? Because I'm filling out my QTAC application for Queensland university's.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 08:05:29 am
content: Quote from: Black Phoenix on August 02, 2019, 07:55:08 amThat anecdote does not surprise me. It sounds as if you may be one of the more competent HR-droids; if so you are worth your weight in gold.

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 08:07:09 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 02, 2019, 08:05:29 amI wish... I wish...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 08:14:09 am
content: Quote from: 42Bits on August 02, 2019, 07:59:59 amIt doesn't really matter because these a only 2 years courses (given that I wouldn't even call them associates degrees).Looks at the differences here:Obviously the computer system engineering is better, but it's TWO YEAR couse, this is a technician level course length, you aren't going to learn anything of huge substance for actual computer design.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 08:20:47 am
content: Quote from: 42Bits on August 02, 2019, 07:59:59 amI think you are being too limited in your vision of your future.You are trying to get an education that will enable you to have a good and interesting career for the next 40 years. In that time manymanythings will change completely, and you will have to "adapt or die". A university course is the best way to get a solid theoretical understanding of thebasicsof the things that you don't yet know you will need to know or want to know.That can only happen if you have a relatively broad course.One example of that (which you probably don't yet understand!) is that the only "digital" circuits involve photon counting and femtoamp circuits. All other circuits are reallyanaloguecircuits where the transmitters have a limited range of output voltages/currents and the receiversinterprettheir analogue inputs as being digital signals. And getting from the transmitter to the receiver is purely analogue - and RF with modern logic. The consequence is that to be able to design modern digital systems, you have to understand the analogue and RF operation. That will only get more extreme in the future.Another point is that there are very few jobs in designing computers, and there will be fewer in the future. There are far more in using computers or designing interfaces or hardware/software systems. That requires understanding far more technical topics - and can be fascinating.Finally, you can always learn about computer hardware work in your spare time. When your age I designed and built a computer (6800+128bytesRAM). I made many mistakes, but got it working. That lookedverygood on my CV when searching for my first job. (I made 12 applications, and had 19 job offers)Good luck and have fun.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 08:49:26 am
content: Quote from: 42Bits on August 02, 2019, 07:59:59 amSounds like you want to learn Computer Architecture. The only course I see on your list that looks to seriously address that is ELE2303 Embedded Systems Design. Since that's a only a required course on the Computer Engineering path, perhaps that's what you should choose.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 09:56:51 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on August 02, 2019, 08:49:26 amIt is important to note that is what he thinks he wants to learn aboutnow.An important question is what he willwishhe had learned, when he looks back in 10/20/30 years time.Since that is unknowable at the moment, the only preparation is to have a course that isn't too specific. The definition of "too specific" is, of course, left to the OP.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 11:14:36 am
content: Quote from: Nusa on August 02, 2019, 08:49:26 amAnd I'll bet my bottom dollar that's just implementing microcontrollers and/or SBC's.Remember this is a two year class engineering course, and the subject depth will reflect that.It'smightbe a bit more in-depth because it's a university and not a TAFE associate degree, but I wouldn't expect much.Unfortunately the OP will not learn computer design from this course.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 11:15:35 am
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 02, 2019, 09:56:51 amThat's why off the bat I always recommend the more generic electrical/electronics courses.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 11:28:04 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 02, 2019, 11:15:35 amIn this respect, nothing has changed in the 45 years (gulp) since I was in the OP's position. My decision to go for a good general EE/computing degree at a good university has stood me in good stead. I went back last year, and the course continues with anexcellentmix of theory and project work.But if I was starting out now, I'd probably opt for the life sciences: there's more scope for hacking

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 02:24:38 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on August 02, 2019, 11:15:35 amI'm beginning to think that the big market is going to be in mechatronics or, more specifically, automation coupled with AI. Now, the math guys handling the AI will be sitting in a small padded room somewhere but, sooner or later, they are going to need sensors, actuators and some kind of control loops. I think the MEs and EEs that are well versed in a wide range of topics are going to be in need. It does no good to get too specific in early years.There is a difference in focus between general EE and Computer Engineering and, for my money, Computer Engineering is the way to go. We haven't begun to scratch the surface in computer applications. If they had a further specialty track for Embedded Systems, I would probably head over there.In the end, I would kiss off EE altogether and major in Software Engineering. They make more money! Not programmers, no, the engineers that design the code. The high level guys. The guys that take customer requirements and convert them into a workable design for the code monkeys to implement.In the US, we have bls.gov by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and you can research what any field pays and, more to the point, how much it is in demand and how much it pays by locale. Not surprisingly, certain fields of engineering pay very well in Silicon Valley. And in the Seattle area. Of course, since everybody makes a ton of money, the cost of living reflects that.I wouldn't shoot for an AS degree as an end goal. That's technician level and doesn't usually pay all that well. A lot of effort goes into any engineering program, make sure there is a market for the resulting degree.

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 02:38:58 pm
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 02, 2019, 02:24:38 pmI know why you say that, but in my experience EEs pick up software far more easily and successfully that softies pick up electronics.That leads neatly into your next point about people that can partition requirements into hardware and software sub-systems...QuoteYup, that's where I've always been right from my first job in 1978, either in consulting or industrial R&D. Very interesting, and I've always been surprised how few people have the experience to do it.But I'd be wary of reading too much into the words "software engineering" or "computer engineering" or "computer science". Those are poorly defined terms, and the specific degree would be critical in making a choice.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2019, 03:30:20 pm
content: Quote from: tggzzz on August 02, 2019, 02:38:58 pmEE's are especially good at the low level stuff and really good at comprehending datasheets. At the grand level, maybe it's a tossup.QuoteTitles are all over the map. "Sanitation Engineer" for garbage collector, etc. The thing is, these are very specific occupations when taken to bls.gov where they carefully break out computer engineer from software engineer from programmer. Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, they lump all of the Electrical Engineers into one pot and there's a world of difference between engineering utility distribution systems and designing SMPSs. The same thing tends to happen with Mechanical Engineer. There are those who design HVAC systems, those who design machines and those who work on mechatronics. HVAC, in particular, uses vastly different ideas than the other two. It pays well, especially in Silicon Valley where the semiconductor business revolves around environmental control and piping systems.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 03, 2019, 12:05:10 am
content: Quote from: rstofer on August 02, 2019, 02:24:38 pmI do hope the OP realises that this isn't a degree, and despite the name it's not even (what was it seems) an "associates degree" which is 3 years in most countries, not two years.But I just checked and it seems things have now changed, TAFE only seem to offer 2 years Diploma, Advanced Diploma electronics engineering courses:https://www.tafensw.edu.au/course/-/c/c/UEE50411-01/Diploma-of-Electrical-Engineeringhttps://www.tafensw.edu.au/course/-/c/c/UEE61711-01/Advanced-Diploma-of-Engineering-Technology---ElectronicsIt used to be 3 years for the Assoicate Diploma, and was the equivalent to other countries 3 year "Associate Degree".And IIRC they changed to calling it a 3 year Associates Degree.But now they only have 2 year options?

author: westfw
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2019, 07:59:51 am
content: QuoteI doubt whether either path would teach you much about that. The "Computer" direction will give you more software (OS, Embedded Systems, Data Structures, etc), and the EE path will cover more basic electronics (op amps, power, etc.) But neither is likely to go into RAM, or CPU (well, maybe at a very upper level), or PCB (which is a "practical" class. Those were all 3rd or 4th year topics in my 4-year degree (although, that was a long time ago.)GPU design is probably post-4yr (I didn't see anything about graphics in either class set. A basic graphics class MIGHT teach you some of the math (SO MUCH MATH) basics that are fundamental to graphics processing (but probably wouldn't get close to how a GPU actually DOES it.)

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2020, 06:05:04 am
content: The comment that we can't tell you what is best for you is very valid. And you might not even really know. Most people change over time, particularly at the point in life you are in.When I started university I was torn between mechanical engineering and electrical (electronic) engineering. Fortunately the school I went to didn't force a hard choice until late in sophomore year. By then I had moved away from mechanical, but then was doing the computer/electronics waffle. That also resolved fairly soon, but through some grad school and into industry my specialization wandered from rf through power and into opto-electronics. All of the side paths turned out to be valuable as they developed tools that were put to work solving problems in my work.If you are going to remain a good engineer through your career you will need to continue learning. The important thing is to think, learn and do. Not the order of studies.