Nixie Tube Clock - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 12:00:10 am
content: Since David got sent some Nixie tubes, I think he should make a clock, counter, multimeter display mod or something display related. He could focus on high voltage design and how to get it right while making something for a bit of fun.Everyone likes Nixie's

author: electronics man
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 09:45:39 pm
content: He could do it wile talking about high voltage safety.

author: TheEPROM9
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 17, 2014, 11:49:50 pm
content: Quote from: electronics man on January 17, 2014, 09:45:39 pmIndeed, could be part of the safety video, shock his self for science >=-)

author: Napalm2002
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2014, 03:28:07 am
content: My vote is in

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 20, 2014, 03:54:45 am
content: Designing and building a nixie clock from scratch is a huge undertaking, voltage multiplier, nixie drivers and microprocessor program including anti burn in, daylight savings, blanking (extend life) and gps linking are all needed. The kit from Peter Virada has this coveted including pretty led base lighting, I built 2 (work and home)www. pvelectronics.co.uk(i have no vested interest)

author: GK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 20, 2014, 04:17:35 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 20, 2014, 03:54:45 amThey are?Quote from: TheEPROM9 on January 17, 2014, 12:00:10 amThat's probably why there are about 2 million nixie tube clock projects on the interwebs already.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 19, 2014, 04:31:15 pm
content: count me in for a nixie clock (or generic display) thread or project. I'm now interested in them and planning on doing a board of some kind for my own design.and yes, its a lot of work if you want to do it on your own. there are so many features that can be added and so it turns into more of a software project than a hardware one. I could easily spend months doing the firmware (part time) and adding this or that feature to it.my first nixie project was to add a dB volume level display to an amplifier I built:I took that to an audio show/demo and I was the only one there with a nixie digital display; everyone else is still stuck in the modern age with lcd'squite a few people stopped by to comment on the nixies, so I know there is a newfound interest in these old things.

author: kc0ngu
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2014, 03:25:58 am
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 20, 2014, 03:54:45 amWow, how did I design/build a nixie clock without considering any of these suggestions??

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2014, 03:35:06 am
content: I'm staring on a new one, a proper clock, this time.early steps (not even a single tube is fully wired yet, but all the key parts are placed):using an arduino nano this time around.

author: nathanpc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 07, 2014, 02:27:32 pm
content: Quote from: VK5RC on February 20, 2014, 03:54:45 amI have to disagree with the statement that it's a "huge undertaking". Designing a HV power supply for nixies isn't difficult, you can evenuse flash circuitsif you're not in the mood of designing your own. It's extremely simple to write a clock program for a microcontroller, the daylight savings feature could be left out or implemented later, so the user will have to manually do it just like 100% of the digital clocks (not connected devices) we have today. Why would you require GPS linking?Quote from: linux-works on March 19, 2014, 04:31:15 pmNot a single picture of the rest of that awesome circuit?

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2014, 04:07:16 pm
content: the reason I plan to add both a gps input and an ntp (via a small linux board system) input is to entirely avoid having to SET the clock, at allsure, you get nice accuracy but its always a PITA to set clocks, so an ascii input to a serial port that comes from gps or a pc would really make things so much easier to use.I'm hoping to make more progress on mine this weekend and if I do, I'll certainly post some more pics and the schematic I used, along with the arduino code that I end up writing for it.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2014, 07:55:56 pm
content: testing the dc/dc converter as well as dry-fitting the tubes (which are round pin-out) on a square grid:since dc/dc was mentioned, here's my zero-effort Just Buy It(tm) solution:http://www.ebay.com/itm/140964710736orhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/151314847910zero effort. give it 5v and set the output with a single resistor. done. I saw no need to design one when you can just buy it and its already a proven design and implementation.in my previous photo, the black module is mounted upside down at the top/left corner. what I didn't like is that its not .1" hole friendly (grrr!) and so I had to hack it with ugly stupid wires, sigh. I asked the vendor why he didn't go with .1 spacing and he had no valid answer, unfortunately. some makers just don't get it..

author: ctz
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 07, 2014, 09:55:40 pm
content: Quote from: linux-works on June 07, 2014, 04:07:16 pmI would have thought that a WWVB, DCF77 or MSF receiver is cheaper, more reliable and actually quite easy to build from scratch. But you can buy modules too.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 01:25:49 am
content: we don't have some of those freq's in the US. and the longwave and shortwave things are too finicky to be reliable for instant time-setting.otoh, its rare to NOT have internet and ethernet access these days. this clock will go on my desk, at work, and I'll have wired ethernet in abundance. a cheap rasp pi box OR even my desktop workstation with a serial port (usb/serial or usb/ttl serial) is all I need to feed it ascii time. even if the local workstation is not perfectly accurate, it will be close enough for desktop clock use and it will allow instant setting of the clock. also, if you let the pc source time, it will take care of DST changes for you.for when I don't have NTP time access, I should have gps access.but I'm allowing anything to be a time source. as long as there is a module that can receive time, somehow, and send some serial report to the clock, that's fine. the main point is to avoid having to have debounced switches in the back and force the user to have to enter time manually. I just hate that since I'm lazy as can be

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 05:04:38 am
content: WWVB is in the US and it works well, and it is accurate. It isn't "instant", true, but GPS isn't either.Use a Spark (spark.io); they can access the internet, are programmed like an Arduino, except in a browser, and are almost as small as the Arduino Nano.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 05:18:30 am
content: with the adafruit gps module I'm using, it often locks in under 30 seconds.the linux board will take that long to boot, but then it gets NTP data pretty much instantly after that.I don't consider wwv and other rf methods to be all that reliable, in my experience. NTP over wired or wireless really is the more reliable method since we have IP pretty much everywhere, these dayshow you get NTP time, that matters less to me. the small linux boards seem natural for that and I know their IP stack is 'real' enough, plus flexible enough if I had to go thru firewalls or use proxies or whatever. and if NTP is being blocked, I could http out and get time, that way.if I'm not near some kind of IP-reachable network, its not likely I'll care about seeing time on my nixie clock. if the network is down, I'm going home

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 06:10:21 am
content: @linux works, How sensitive is that adafruit gps module, work inside a building reliably?Rob

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 06:14:53 am
content: I took it to work and it didn't work from inside a 2nd floor building (san jose). but, my android phone didn't work either until I left the building.at home on my 2nd floor (cupertino) it works almost instantly. and the battery backup keeps enough setting so the gps is not cold-starting (that's why its faster on successive restarts).

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 06:18:52 am
content: this photo has the adafruit module shown:its just tack-wired to an arduino module (the lcd backpack) for testing. the adafruit gps does have an antenna socket so you could use the module as the antennna+gps OR connect a real antenna to this and have the local patch antenna auto-switch off. I use the module as the antenna and have not found the external one to be all that much better. at home, I get at least 5 or 6 sats locked, often going over 11 on good days.this photo, though, does have the ext antenna connected, but these days I just use the module, solo.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 06:22:27 am
content: I have used the GlobalSat EM408 (probably now outdated- bought a couple some years ago) for a couple of my GPS based clocks and have found them good but expensive (were 70-80AUD), one obtained lock inside a steel filing cabinet inside a single storey building. I was impressed.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 08, 2014, 01:39:24 pm
content: The best thing about the adafruit module is the 10Hz update rate.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 01:11:27 am
content: I just found a good use-case for using a linux system to get network time.suppose you are inside a firewall (corporate) and they block NTP and other nice things. what if you could get the time over port 80 (www), which is pretty much *always* allowed from inside corp networks?here's what I came up with, as a quickie hack% curl -s 'http://viv.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?EbayTime'| grep -A 1 'The official eBay Time is now' | tail -1 | awk '{ print $5 }'try it, if you have a unix system. you can see what it does: it just fetches ebay's 'time page' and looks for the magic line and gets the hh:mm:ss from that. it works.its not fast, but at least it gets you close and it DOES work inside my company's network.can't do this with an arduino or pure hardware! again, having a software solution wins over pure hardware or 'standard' protocols that may not work everywhere.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:21:22 am
content: Your company should have several time servers running. Even windows uses NTP when it needs the current time. Active Directory needs all domain joined computers to be on the same time, so there is a time server somewhere.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 03:30:04 am
content: there is definitely a timeserver on our LANs. agreed.but I don't know them (yet). I could probably get time from a default router (etc) but since port 80 'always works', this seemed like a trouble free way to get time, at least within a few seconds.I like having several fallbacks. using ntp or ntpdate would be a first try; if that times out, then try other methods, which could include hitting a webserver that is known to keep time. ebay is a great example since they NEED to be synced and they are big enough to be trusted to keep proper timethere is also something called 'nist-80' which does not look like a standard (yet) but is supported by some vendor code (non-free, I think). that gave me the idea to try to get time over port-80.I don't mind 'wasting' a rasperry pi for this. its cheap, its fanless and it can do any of these tricks.the rasp-pi box will have a usb connection to my arduino nano and maybe every half hour or so, it will push updated time across the serial connection and the arduino will just pick out the ascii HH:MM:SS and set the clock from that, directly.I'll post a follow-up once its implemented, in case anyone cares.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:38:02 pm
content: The Windows Registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\W32Time\Parameters will contain the time server you're syncing to.You can also turn on a time server on your Windows machine in a nearby key. This may interest you if your HTTP method doesn't get you close enough.You can add accuracy to the HTTP method if you can work out the latency in the network and the serving, downloading & parsing of the page ebay is sending you. If you know the time you've pulled out is 0.75 seconds old, you can just add 0.75s to the time you've parsed out of the page to get the proper time. It will depend on how close you care about getting.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 12:45:59 pm
content: windows registry? are we talking the same language, here? you want I should connect a whole whindoz box to my little nixie clock??lolI'd have to write code on windows, then. that aint gonna happen. not in this lifetime.this is why the little beaglebones and raspberry pi's are so popular. no windows license fee, fully (well...) open source and you can write apps on those platforms for free and with nearly no training, just search online for examples and adapt them. I'd have zero idea how to even start writing an app on a windows box, to get system time and then push it across a serial link in a simple ascii format.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:34:58 pm
content: No, no, you don't have to write any code or anything. I'm just saying if there's a windows box ON YOUR NETWORK, then you can determine what its NTP server is via the registry, or you can set that windows machine up to BE a time server, for your clock. It could be helpful to know where a windows machine gets its time, because if it's NTP, then you can get the official time from there as well, provided it is on the same network.It takes about 30 seconds to determine the local time server, and it takes about 30 seconds to make any windows machine into an NTP server, no software development required.Heck, you can probably do it all via the command line with the 'w32tm' command.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
content: ok, slaving off a windows box would be fine. there are enough of those at work.I don't want to do anything ON the windows box (so registry is useless to me) but if there is a way linux can talk to a windows network and get time from a win box, that's fine (and useful as another failover redundancy case).I can't count on admin access on windows systems. so it would have to be a network connect from linux. any ideas on how that can be done? I can run wireshark and see what's on the network but I don't know much about how windows does time resolution (I doubt it uses standard ntp).

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 04:52:50 pm
content: It can use standard NTP, yes. When windows reaches out to the internet to get time, it uses NTP. Windows can easily be set up to be an NTP server as well. 30 seconds, and I'd be surprised if there weren't already an NTP server on the network somewhere.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 12, 2014, 05:37:47 pm
content: one more way to get things 'easily':% lynx -head -dump 'http://www.google.com/'| grep DateDate: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 17:35:42 GMTthat's super simple, super fast and super portable. it may just be all I need, really. has to work everywhere, too, since its rare to find google.com being filtered from corp lans(really, any 'real' webserver will work for this, too).

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 01:30:14 am
content: Depends on how accurate you need it to be, of course. If being within one second + network latency is good enough, then this is a very good option, no doubt.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 01:51:44 am
content: yeah, its good enough.the main idea was to avoid having ANY buttons on the clock that are there to set it. my clock will have a battery backed 1307 RTC module, so during power loss it won't forget its time; but still, I like to resynch periodically and if its within 10 seconds or so, that's good enough for a desk clock. I'm not launching missles from this clock (not that I know of, anyway).

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 07:31:04 pm
content: one digit now workstook a photo of the board in this state before I replicate it 5 more times (how utterly boring, lol).the data path is from the arduino nano to the RTC chip (the one with the largest cell battery on the top) over i2c. i2c is also used to talk to 2 port expanders (pcf8574). those 8bit PE's can drive 2 74141 4bit bcd encoded nixie drivers. I had 8 spare lines on the arduino so I saved one PE chip and some i2c traffic (the middle 'chip' is missing, for the minutes digits).the gps module from adafruit is top/right and it will be connected shortly. the board can be powered from a 7 or higher volt dc source in dc barrel plug format, or via usb via standard 5v mini usb to usb cable. a pc's usb port seems to be able to power this, at least at one digit, so farI used resistor colors for the multi color wiring. digit-0 on the nixie is black, then digit-1 is brown, then red, orange, yellow and so on. I did that for the bcd binary digits 0-3 as well. black and red are overused, color wise, since they also are 5v and ground on chips.so, that's one digit down, 5 more to go before I can rest

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 11:50:34 pm
content: almost done now:left most digit still needs to be wired in, but I'm lazy and quitting for the day. for all but 3 hours, it will be an accurate clock, each day, until I wire up that last digit

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 16, 2014, 06:25:06 am
content: back wiring is 95% doneits now usable.the case is not done yet. its 'workable' and it could go in a few ways. for now, the top level sits hight and protects the tubes. later, I may look into lower the top plate. might also look into putting a flat red or orange lens sheet in front of the nixies, to give it a sharper look.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 05:01:35 am
content: updated case:changed the top plastic so that you can see the tubes even if you are looking at it from an upper/above angle. that's what the top/front cut-out is all about.added an orange front lens, too, for better contrast and some protection.gps is now connected and the firmware updates the RTC from the gps module several times an hour, just for grins and giggles. if no gps is received, it simply runs from the onboard realtime clock.

author: Rigby
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 05:10:13 am
content: That's slick. What is the lifetime rating on the Nixies? IIRC they don't live long.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2014, 02:14:40 pm
content: I have not added cathode poisoning protection; some people have their tubes go thru a slot machine effect (numbers 'rolling' up at some interval, just to sequence thru the digits and not stay on any one too long). I might add that, not sure.even without that, I have heard of them lasting decades. my brother built his first nixie clock back in the 70's and I know he had it for 20 years or more; and it was discrete ttl stuff back then, so no controllers and no fancy slot machine stuffthe tubes are not too expensive (at this size, IN-16, I think is what I used) and they are still easy to find from ukraine. same with the 74141 driver chips; I'm using russian versions since the US chips are very hard to find.I would worry more about the expensive tubes. there are giant tubes that cost about $250 for a set of 6. that's pricey, to me. but for the $70/set tubes like what I have, its not the end of the world if I have to replace them in 10 or 20 yrs. pretty sure I'll get 10+ from them.

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 04:23:13 am
content: I have a couple of Nixie clocks going for a few years ( I cheated and used a kit- PV electronics make a nice kit), These have slot effect, switch off at night etc but I have still had a couple of Nixies slowly die, IN14s. The lower section of a couple of the digits vanished, and it was identical in two different tubes. I suspect less than ideal manufacturing was the real cause of failure, the others are going well, the oldest clock has been going for ~3 years, 16hours a day on time.PS Really like your clock, my programming isn't that flash but I am trying to get an Arduino GPS locked 7 segment LED clock going, have the GPS talking to the Arduino, I am awaiting arrival of a MAX7221 to drive the LEDs.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2014, 05:13:16 am
content: another update, from today's laser session, with a red front filter instead of orange:I wanted to see what it would look like with plexiglass sides instead of those hex standoffs. I think I like this better. I might try another color (or the red see-thru color) for the side stacks. screws are the wrong size but close enough until I can find better ones or cut those down a bit.the front filter now fits in a top as well as bottom cut-out slot. it just drops in and is held by gravity. easily swapped with another color at-will.once I get rid of the bottom hex stand-offs (with the same plastic sides) then I think I may be done with this case style.the sides do prevent you from touching the 160v dc/dc converter, so I'm glad I now have added safety on the sides.yet another 2 hour session at the laser cutter, today. this really eats a lot of time; but I'm -not- complaining, lol.

author: linux-works
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 30, 2014, 09:15:28 am
content: final update for a while. last day (of 3) at the laser.went with black 'ribs' for the sides. stacked pieces of 1/4" acrylic with holes drilled to keep them pressed down tight. a black plastic base was made to sit ON the pcb; and 2 plastic bases to sit UNDER the pcb so the wiring is fully enclosed and protected yet still 100% visible.I added an IR receiver and some code so now you can do things with a simple remote. I can turn display off, show the gps sattelite count, force a re-lock to gps with another button push, etc. lots of buttons on typical universal remotes and you can assign any of them to any function in the clock you want.orange did turn out better for the front and rear. by having them in both locations and the clear plastic on top, there's an orange hue appearing inside the box. its kind of neat. and when the blue light from the arduino is on, it lights up the etched lettering on the top of the box.one future mod is to add a few rgb leds and aim them to the top plastic area. they'd all be tuned to the same rgb value (cpu settable) and that will give a single color that the clock can now show as 'state'. the user will be albe to define what that state is; if its the source of time (ntp over ethernet over a pc; or gps or even just rtc alone). the color could indicate am/pm. it could indicate newmail (along with a changed value on the display). its userdefinable.so, some more firmware and a few more hw mods and this will be ready to consider making green boards for.

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 01, 2014, 01:05:36 am
content: Nice build and function list. There is an appeal about Nixies that makes you want to look.I'm guessing you will put a cover over the 'glass nipple' tops of the tubes for complete protection !.