POLL: Should the order of forum posts be changed? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 03, 2019, 11:51:59 pm
content: I just realised this seems to be an option.Currently you have to go the bottom of the page to see the latest post.Would it be better to have the latest post on the top instead?You can actually change this in your profile:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=themeBut I'm talking about making all new users have this by default, and changing all existing accounts to this as well?NOTE: This also impact the page order, so page 1 is the latest post.It's a huge change, so I'm guessing most will be against it, but thought I'd ask.

author: chickenHeadKnob
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:10:35 am
content: A problem would result in very long multipage threads, particularly the hacking threads of test equipment where the original poster keeps a summary of the hack procedure in his first post updated.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:26:53 am
content: ooops clicked the wrong vote button ... just tried switching, and it sucks :-) no way to change it back? First is definitely better

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:30:13 am
content: It's fine how it is. However, I do have a suggestion for a forum topic area. Something like "Standards, Approvals, & Test Labs".

author: ucanel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:30:37 am
content: We are at facebook twitter kinda grown generation soas they are used to they would prefer to see newest first,for oldies it is better to stay as it is.But i need to say this,one of the forum that i have been using more than 5 yearschanged it's themes,firstly we thinked thats so bad,and after time we got used to it,because new theme got more functionality and easier to use...The old theme was the same aswith the what this forum uses right now.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:39:51 am
content: Let the poll run for a good few days Dave as I reckon most of us here like it this way but quite understand if the masses want it 'modernized'.It would certainly make reading big/popular threads easier when not logged in.Dunno...........maybe give it a try for a few days then swap back if the protests are too great.What will the server think changing over..........meltdownmaybe get gnif's opinion first.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:44:37 am
content: Newest first is completely illogical. Just try setting it and viewing this thread.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:52:24 am
content: Quote from: chickenHeadKnob on May 04, 2019, 12:10:35 amYep, very true.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:52:56 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 04, 2019, 12:44:37 amYes, no need to guess what it's like, you can change it temporarily in your own profile, or keep it permanently if you like it working that way.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 12:54:13 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 04, 2019, 12:39:51 amI just made some small changed to all profile defaults and it took about 30 seconds but it worked fine

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:04:33 am
content: I changed it in my profile 7 or 8 years ago to have the latest post up top. If you make it the default it suits me fine.But, on the other hand, how hard is it to change it to suit your own preference?A: Not hard at all.Now if you were thinking of introducing a dictionary with the British spelling.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:09:35 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 04, 2019, 01:04:33 amChrome browser spell check plays just fine with the forum.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:12:58 am
content: Given that it's a user preference, I suppose I don't care much either way.I do tend to think that coming into a thread newest-first will drive more quoting of prior posts for context (because otherwise how will you know what you're reading). I tend to like quoting, but I'd still leave my profile set the current way (oldest on top, latest on bottom).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:15:26 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 04, 2019, 01:04:33 amOh, OK so if Dave does change to last = first, presumably we can still switch back to the old way in each of our profiles.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:33:16 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 04, 2019, 01:15:26 amEven if he changes it, it should not affect you at all. The forum almost certainly does not track whether you have changed settings or not, meaning defaults are applied only on initial account creation.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:40:37 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 04, 2019, 01:33:16 amI have the option to make latest post first for only new account by default, and I can also force change all existing accounts to this.Sound like the later option is not a good idea, but what about for new accounts?

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:46:31 am
content: Quote from: tautech on May 04, 2019, 01:15:26 amYes, quite easily. Either way it isn't hard and it's one time only regardless of what Dave sets the default to.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:46:58 am
content: Because the answers to a question often don't make any sense to read without reading the question first.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:47:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 04, 2019, 01:40:37 amAgain, view the thread newest-first. It makes no sense at all. Context out the window, first post isn't there when you open the thread.It's sometimes just barely tolerable if the first post is pinned to the top, but then it becomes a waste of space on every single page. The whole idea is awful.Can you imagine the confusion of coming to the forum for the first time, clicking on say, a review thread, and all you see is some random comment from two years later? It's enough to drive people away.Now imagine reading one of the many threads where the original author split the content across several posts at the beginning of the thread. Go to last page, scroll all the way to the bottom, scroll up until you find the start of the first post. Scroll down to read it. Scroll back up to find the beginning of the second, scroll down to read it, scroll up, scroll down..Even trendy crap like Discourse doesn't do this, because it doesn't work. Unless you're wilfred, but we make exceptions..

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:47:28 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on May 04, 2019, 01:46:58 amWhy shouldn't the default be changed?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:00:32 am
content: (Assuming your intention is to build the EEVBlog community):I don't know how scientific this would be, but you could also split-run it. Assign the next 500 or 1000 users to a 50/50 mix of style A and style B. See over the following 6 months if there's any difference in engagement and productive use of the EEVBlog community.Tell half of each of those groups of users upon signup that there is an option to change their display style to the opposite style and after 6 months, look to see how many have changed their style from their "assigned" setting to the opposite setting.

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:10:52 am
content: I prefer it the way it is. Thanks for asking.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:13:16 am
content: One additional detail when changing the order: many folks (including me) reference past posts with "above". That would be also confusing.But hey, more power to the people and EEV. If changing the defaults has yhe potential to bring more audience, then do it. I know I would change it back to the prior setting anyways.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:16:42 am
content: This seems like a no brainer to me. The first post summary is always at one end or the other depending on the users preference. Shouldn't be hard to find either way. On this forum navigating to the beginning or end of a huge thread is relatively easy, unlike several others out there so that doesn't make much difference. The style is easy for each user to pick to their own preference.So to me, the answer is do whatever is easiest for the admins, as that is about the only real difference. Likely that answer is to leave it the way it is.Something that might help on this and several other similar items is a tutorial sticky in the beginners section outlining the options and operation of this blog.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:28:25 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on May 04, 2019, 01:47:08 amYup, I think I agree.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:40:03 am
content: Also why there are inconsistencies at various sections, that few have these annoying 1st post stuck at the top ? If this is the proffered method, apply it to "ALL" section.TBH, the stuck 1st post is quite annoying for regular member of discussion, when clicked the "NEW" orange icon for newest post, it always display the 1st post instead of the latest un-read one, that made this jump to "NEW" post feature useless.

author: Cubdriver
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:41:00 am
content: Seems to me at least that last post first would be counterintuitive and make things much harder to follow. Would that mean that when coming into a thread with multiple replies since you last visited that the 'new' button would put you somewhere halfway done the page, where you'd then read the first new post (from top to bottom), then scroll UP past what you just read to find the start of the next new post above it, which you'd then read from to to bottom, then scroll up past again and on to the top of the next new post, lather, rinse, repeat? That would make meWith the current default settings, the 'new posts' button takes you to to top of the first new post. You read it, then it naturally flows to the top of the next new post, and so on and so on. All a nice flow in one direction.-Pat

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 02:58:17 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 04, 2019, 02:40:03 amYou mean theboldsticky subjects?

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 03:06:06 am
content: Quote from: wilfred on May 04, 2019, 01:04:33 amThe chosen settings might affect the default view and order so Dave should also take into account how threads appear to guests or those who do not sign in to simply read stuff.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 03:28:08 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 04, 2019, 02:58:17 amNo Dave, its not stickied subjects/threads.Example, every subject/thread created in this General Chat section like this one here, are always have this stuck 1st post with the thick blue separation bar at page #2 and above, and when the thread grows into multiple pages, this 1st post is always displayed no matter which page you're viewing.Now, while other section, example like in "Test Equipment" section, subject/thread are created do not have the 1st stuck post, you can easily see the thick separation bar is not there compared to above example.Still same thread, if we click page #2 and above, the 1st displayed post flows naturally as post count.Why not just disable it at "all" sections for consistency.Personally I prefer to disable it as its quite annoying especially thread that has big/many photo attachments at the 1st post, as it always suck the bandwidth every times we view the discussion thread. New member who is interested with 1st post, should be easy to click the 1st page to view it. and active participants in the discussion do not need a constant reminder of the 1st initial post. Also bandwidth wise perspective, its a huge waste if thread is popular followed by thousands of lurkers, like gnif's graphic card modding thread.

author: Tomorokoshi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 04:41:42 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 04, 2019, 03:28:08 amI don't happen to see that behavior. The threads I see in General Chat are all in the format without a persistent first post.

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:08:35 am
content: Weird ...

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:11:50 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 04, 2019, 01:40:37 amEither way is as arbitrary as the other. I'd say go by the poll results but I don't think this or any other internet poll gets an unbiased sample of respondents.New users will either like it or change it or perhaps dislike it and not bother to change it. The same would apply if you did nothing at all.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 05:16:31 am
content: Quote from: Tomorokoshi on May 04, 2019, 04:41:42 amSame here.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 06:02:21 am
content: It's an age old debate that raged on Usenet for years but I believe the best way is to keep newest posts at the 'bottom' so the context is correct, and the process of arriving at that post takes you through the 'story' so far.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 06:05:17 am
content: As it is now, once I have finished reading a post, I can simply look down 1 or 2 cm and start reading the next - irrespective of whether the posts are 1 liners or massive scrollers with images.Reverse the order and you will have to backtrack the post you've just read AND the body of the following one to get to the start of the following one.Whatever the vote shows, I will be sticking with the way I was taught to read: Left to right, top to bottom, all the way down the page.Quote from: CJay on May 04, 2019, 06:02:21 amYeah, like that.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 06:14:03 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 04, 2019, 02:40:03 amHaving the 1st post displayed at the top of every page is a profile option, don't remember which one.Why different subforums display differently for you I don't know, though. Perhaps you selected some sort of "use defaults" and Dave configured things randomly not realizing it's a problem.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 07:27:47 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on May 04, 2019, 01:40:37 amHaving different defaults for existing vs. new accounts seems like a recipe for confusion. Users will refer to "the post above" in their posts, not realizing that others see things in the opposite order.Fine as long as I change my individual setting in the profile and realize that it is now different from the default. But confusing when two different default settings co-exist, and most users are not even aware of that.

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 09:15:00 am
content: Quote from: magic on May 04, 2019, 06:14:03 amIt's "Look and Layout --> Show first post on every page"

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 10:18:29 am
content: Leave it the way it is, I like to readconversationsdownwards, rather than backwards.Havingthe indexeswith the newest subjects or postings at the top is fine.One problem with being able to fix it in your profile is that it will look different when not logged in.Yesterday when I hovered over the Topic:s in Recent Posts, it changed tounderlined in red,today it's back tojust underlined.I don't know how others refresh a thread that they're reading, I click on one of the post's subject:Re: POLL: Should the order of forum posts be changed?itseemsfaster than refreshing the whole page.

author: RoGeorge
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 10:41:12 am
content: Q: Last post on top?A: Australia?

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 11:30:19 am
content: Keep it as it is - too few people read the previous posts before replying as it is!

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 11:39:40 am
content: One can choose the direction in the options. I currently use the newest on top, so one has the last response on hand with a reply. I see no big difference though. The default way seems to be the more common one - so OK for guests.However there is one annoying detail related: the counting of the answers is off by one between the 2 options - that should be changed.

author: rstofer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 04, 2019, 01:46:13 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on May 04, 2019, 01:15:26 amWhich would be a form of 'poll'...

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 12:40:55 am
content: I like reading last to first. With some threads it is easy to tell where they are going from the first post. I've also observed that the more likely the thread will run off into the weeds, the more likely the entire thread will have been re-quoted ad nauseum anyway. In such cases it saves time deciding whether or not to read further.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 10:58:21 am
content: Seems simple enough as it is, where with numerous replies, you simply click on thelast page number, and then click 'Down' to go to the bottom of that last page...

author: tggzzz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 11:54:32 am
content: Oooh, goodie: another top-posting vs bottom posting "argument"Here's a variant of the traditional response...A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.Q: Why should I start my reply below the quoted text?A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?A: The lost context.Q: What makes top-posted replies harder to read than bottom-posted?A: Yes.Q: Should I trim down the quoted part of an email to which I'm replying?Latest first is a pain in the arse when you are trying to figure out the flow of a conversation.

author: Yansi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 01:12:51 pm
content: Jeeeez. Why would one even want to read a book back to front?

author: strangersound
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 05:19:53 pm
content: Quote from: Yansi on May 05, 2019, 01:12:51 pmExactly.The reason the option exists to change it from the logical default is for regular members. If your here everyday and are always caught up, maybe the most recent first might make sense. But otherwise, the whole idea is absurd.Facebook did this to the comments a while back and it's annoying to the max. You have to click load more like a hundred times just to try and read a comment thread. It makes no sense at all.

author: ucanel
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 11:04:14 pm
content: A little bit out of subject butsome forums has the functionalty thatdirects you to the last post that you read,so you always continue the thread where you left from.Do we have that option?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 05, 2019, 11:24:50 pm
content: Quote from: ucanel on May 05, 2019, 11:04:14 pmYes from within the board overview, not from inside the thread.Use the orange NEW button. (only visible when logged in)

author: Mickster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 12:11:38 am
content: Quote from: ucanel on May 05, 2019, 11:04:14 pm^This!!OT from the poll, but that is exactly what I wanted to post when first seeing this thread.Having to click on new posts, then scroll through to find the last post in the particular thread that you had read, is a PITA.On Topic:First to last is the way it should be IMO, so that you get the whole story of the thread from inception - not sure how many people pick up a book and turn to the last chapter first. Sure, information regularly has to get pried out of the hands of the OP, but reading backwards and trying to piece together the mish-mash in reverse is kinda masochistic.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 02:19:40 am
content: this is like asking if we should all type backwards.no

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 06:31:39 am
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 04, 2019, 03:28:08 amIt does not do that for me.Yes that is an option lust like this first post thing - "Show first post on every page"https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=theme

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 01:29:19 pm
content: Quote from: Mickster on May 06, 2019, 12:11:38 amUse the orange "NEW" button to navigate to the thread you want to read. Do not click on the thread title, but only on the new button itself.I probably spent 3 years on another web forum wasting time scrolling up and down before I learned this. (I feel like clicking on the thread title should probably just take you to the new posts by default, but at least there's a way.)

author: BravoV
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 01:42:08 pm
content: Picture worth thousands words ...

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 02:40:43 pm
content: Quote from: BravoV on May 06, 2019, 01:42:08 pmU mad, bro? (just kidding...)From the "Show new replies to your posts." or "Show unread posts since last visit." I also click on the icon at the rightmost part of a thread to get the post after the last one I read.

author: PA0PBZ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 02:44:27 pm
content: Quote from: rsjsouza on May 06, 2019, 02:40:43 pmIf I'm not mistaken that takes you to the last post in the thread, which can be different from what you last read.

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 06, 2019, 02:55:03 pm
content: Quote from: PA0PBZ on May 06, 2019, 02:44:27 pmYou know what? I was so used to click on this that I really didn't notice the difference. You are absolutely right!

author: Mickster
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 12:20:49 am
content: Quote from: sokoloff on May 06, 2019, 01:29:19 pmWell, don't I feel like a knob now?Other forums take you to the last post that you read automatically and also indicate that new posts have been made since you last visited simply by displaying a different icon thingy. I (wrongly) took it that the orange "NEW" simply meant that new posts have been made since the last visit...Live 'n learn. Thanks for the tips guys.

author: Dude111
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 09, 2019, 07:36:51 am
content: I think the default way is the best... It wont confuse anyone