Approximate pricing on 3-D EM software - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 02:34:14 am
content: Folks,I'm trying to get an idea of what some 3-D FEM electromagnetic analysis software would cost. I have little experience with 3-D software in general.What I will be trying to model is a combination of PCBs (up to 4 layers), "simple" parts (R, L, C), and some custom blocks consisting of resistive or conductive materials in various shapes and sizes, and bond wires. Time domain response to steps or impulses would be great, but frequency domain would be good enough. Probably need to simulate to about 10 GHz.The circuits would consist of some chip-scale transistors, SMT passives, etc, but some of the parts will be mounted to the PCB and wirebonded directly to traces. Normal cases would be about 10 parts on a PCB, but could be as high as 20.I am just getting started looking at this, and thought I would try to get some idea of cost upfront, since my experience with software vendors is that they will see my inexperience in this area and it will take two dozen emails and half a dozen t-cons before I can wrangle a meaningful quote.Any help appreciated. A free or open source solution would be fine, but keep in mind that while I'm ok using the command line, I know next to nothing about 3-D FEMThanks,John

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 04:39:53 pm
content: For something like Ansys HFSS, you are looking at mid 5 figures, say $50,000.You probably can get by with a 2.5D simulator that can do planar structures with layers of different thicknesses. Works well for PC boards, microstrip structures. You can even get creative and stack up layers to do pseudo 3D. Sonnet has some pricing for their products here:http://www.sonnetsoftware.com/products/sonnet-suites/suite-prices.htmlYou really need a circuit simulator to put component models and EM sections together for a full simulation. Tools like AWR Microwave Office or Keysight ADS have optional EM packages integrated in with the simulator. Lease prices are in the 5 figure range per year.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 05:18:00 pm
content: Mid-five-figures. That's what I was afraid of.Do you know if Sonnet can do bond wires, or would I need to fake it somehow?Thanks,John

author: rfeecs
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 05:29:54 pm
content: Sonnet cannot do full 3D. Everything is a planar layer. You could model bond wires with thick metal layers stacked on top of each other.

author: darrell
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 11:12:59 pm
content: http://openems.deIt's full 3D, but not as polished as the commercial products. It seems quite accurate. Everything I've built and measured reasonably matches the simulation.

author: darrell
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 06, 2017, 11:16:10 pm
content: Quote from: darrell on July 06, 2017, 11:12:59 pmWhen I chose OpenEMS, I was willing to spend up to $25k. OpenEMS was the best one within that budget and the price was right at $0. Sonnet is a decent option if you can live with the limitations.

author: JohnG
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2017, 12:02:42 pm
content: Quote from: darrell on July 06, 2017, 11:12:59 pmThank you. I will take a look and see if it is something I can learn to use. I have used Octave extensively in the past, and that looks like it may come in handy.John

author: Andrey_irk
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2017, 08:58:56 am
content: Nobody noticed CST MWS and Keysight EmPRO. Do they cost about the price of HFSS?