Need to get a new circuit designed - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: remixed123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2013, 12:15:31 pm
content: I have designed a product using development boards, and now need to have a custom board designed.I am a self funded entrepreneur so cost is a factor. I am looking for advice on how I might go about obtaining quotes or where is the best place to find someone to perform this task.I am open to engaging a student who is looking for a summer project, you do not need to have a lot of professional experience, but you have to be confident that you can deliver. Also, having an interest in new lighting tech for DJs, musicians, music lovers and also an interest in smartphone apps is a plus.The MCU used is ARM Cortex M4F , so experience with this and a Sydney, Australia based location is preferred, but open to other locations and technologies experiences.To get an idea on the cool product you will get to design a circuit for, check out these videos.LightServer Beta Demo -Motion Synth Inspired LightServer Demo -Also, feel free to let us know what you think of this product.Regards,Glennlightserver@icloud.comp.s. I do apologise if this is an inappropriate post for this forum. I could not find anything specifically stating these post are not allowed in this site.p.p.s In case Vimeo doesn't work, here is the Youtube video -

author: JoeO
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2013, 12:41:08 pm
content: It sounds to me that you are looking for the circuits to be designed and packaging designed to put this all into a unit.This is NOT a job for a summer student. You will need approvals by the appropriate agencies in Australia and also in countries that you intend to sell it in. This will cost money and you will need people with experience in this area.This is NOT a simple $1,000 expense. It will cost many thousands of dollars. If you don't have the money, you will need backers.JMOGood Luck!

author: remixed123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2013, 01:01:48 pm
content: Hi JMO,Thanks for your advise!Just so you know, I am working with experienced manufacture who already produces similar products. They need from me circuit design and BOM before we can work out costs.And yes, I am looking for backers, not just for funding, but also from those who might have experience and established distribution channels in the markets I am targeting. So if you know anyone, then let me know!Can you expand on the approvals component you raised, what needs to be approved? Where can I find out more about this etc?Glenn.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 19, 2013, 02:05:40 pm
content: I wouldn't look for a student. You need someone (or a company) who can deliver the design on time and with a decent chance of getting the approvals. Perhaps its better to pay a higher hourly rate with less chance for delays or a non-working/buggy design. The sooner a design is ready for production the sooner you start earning money.Either way you will need to make a thourough functional description/specification in order to get accurate (fixed price) quotes.

author: remixed123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 12:39:16 am
content: What sort of approvals am I going to require? The product will be sold initially in the North America, Australia and Europe, but I'd also want it to be able to be sold worldwide.Glenn.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 01:04:23 am
content: IMHO its best to ask that question to a test house. Based on the product they can determine which standards apply and which tests need to be performed.

author: free_electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 01:05:48 am
content: it depends if the product is mains powered or not.you can get around UL if you buy a ready made power brick.since you are using wifi FCC will have a few words to say about that , so better stick to a pre-qualified module that includes the antenna and is approved , so you can dance around that one as well.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 02:04:47 am
content: Glenn, for sale in Oz you will need to comply with EMC/EMI rules. Ring & talk to one of the tech guys at ACMA, they are quite helpful.http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/standards-equipmentThey will tell you what you need to comply with. Then talk to one of the EMC test houses - they will then tell you how much it will cost you to be tested & to get a test report.One of DLJs blogs is on conducted emissions testing:You need to apply for & get a "manufacturer" number from ACMA. This is the "N12345" number sticker that you see on most electronic items.For sale into US / Europe needs FCC/CE mark compliance - which is a similar process to that needed for Oz. It's a PITA, it's expensive and it makes it hard for small players to get started. The thing that sh!ts me is that in testing systems at EMC labs its usually components of the system that are made by large companies that cause the system to fail despite being covered with compliance labels!BTW what was that god awful noise that accompanied your videos?

author: remixed123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 02:05:34 am
content: I am using a power adapter, so no mains power involved with my design.The wifi module I am using has international certification, so long as a certain antenna is used.Any other certifications or approvals required?Glenn.

author: remixed123
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 02:14:20 am
content: Quote from: DTJ on December 20, 2013, 02:04:47 amYou don't like dup step!!! The device will work with all sorts of music, even that weird guitar based music called rock!Thanks for the info, these are just steps on the way. I am sure I can deal with all of them.Glenn.

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 02:43:27 am
content: The first step in getting your device certified is to determine what category it falls into.I've only worked with industrial / medical scientific products so I don't know what all the other categories are. Your device may fall into a category something like "consumer domestic with RF".When the category is known, you will be able to see the standards that apply & those standards will define the tests that apply & conditions that need to be met.I'm not 100% sure but just because you are using a certified RF module may not mean you don't have to do some testing work in that area.I have not looked at the ACMA site for years - looking at it today it seemed very hard to find hard technical info. The tech guys there are generally good to talk to. Treat them well & they try to help you out. An old boss of mine tried being a smart arse with them & our compliance job suddenly got a lot harder!It's not an insurmountable job, the EMC test house I have used is run by a very helpful guy who provides heaps of free advice.Have you put lots of thought into the overall viability of the product? ie will it sell in sufficient volume?Re dub step - yeah, there's music & then there's that dub step & doof doof crap! (showing my age)Good luck

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 03:32:54 am
content: Here's the ACMA classification document:http://www.acma.gov.au/~/media/Technical%20Regulation%20Development/Regulation/pdf/EMC_Standards_List.pdf

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 12:17:31 pm
content: Quote from: remixed123 on December 20, 2013, 02:05:34 amIn practice depends on whether or not your dealers care about such things, and what markets you are selling into. Tons of people just don't bother, especially on the small scale side of things, but I'm not supposed to say that of course, that's naughty.The CE mark for example is technically required for most products sold in Europe, but it's not mandatory for a certified body to test it, you can just slap on the CE mark and take the responsibility yourself for all the things it covers in relation to your product. But if your product kills someone or something, and you can't show that you did any actual testing for any CE mark, you might be in some trouble.Lots of companies will be happy to liberate you from your money for all sort of testing and advice on this, beware.For design, in Sydney tryhttp://www.airborn.com.au/

author: DTJ
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 20, 2013, 12:55:10 pm
content: I've pondered what happens for niche or specialist products in regards to compliance.Say you designed, manufactured and sold a product via a website int the USA or Europe, who if anyone is going to check for any kind of compliance?? This is of course for low volume technical / industrial products that don't have dire or deadly consequences if they fail.I'm thinking domestic items sold in perhaps higher volumes are a different matter.Thoughts?

author: underwurlde
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 23, 2013, 08:35:52 pm
content: In total, how many individual components in your design?Of those, how many are not 'standard' resistors / capacitors.Is your schematic 100% complete or are you still 'tinkering' with it?Are the positioning of components / connectors etc critical?Do you have a mechanical drawing for out-line of PCB and (if critical) positioning of components?Do you have an enclosure in mind? If so, do you have a 3D (e.g. step file) for this?Are you willing to hand over a schematic to a complete stranger?Are there any High Voltage or High Current parts to the schematic?If you have a schematic entered into a package already, what is that package? Or is it all hand-drawn?There is a lot to making a PCB.Component schematic parts (and souring of datasheets etc).The schematic itself.A BOM <- do you want a costed BOM for example?Component footprints <- mechanical drawing also need to be done.PCB out-line.PCB design / layout.Mechanical and electrical considerations.Are there any buttons, displays etc?Do you want the design 'designed for manufacture'? i.e. high or low volume.Do you want the PCB panelized?At a wild guess, how big do you think the PCB will be?Answering AS MUCH as possible will help no-end to guage how easy this will be to actually do!Andy

author: imjosh
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2013, 03:49:37 am
content: QuoteCheck out the first case on there:http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/marketing/] http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/marketing/Ouch. But there's only about 13 cases for all of 2013, so odds are in your favor it seems.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2013, 02:18:53 am
content: Quote from: free_electron on December 20, 2013, 01:05:48 amThat won't fly for CE approval. You can't build a new product from pre-tested modules. Chances are the test limits for the modules are very relaxed (*) or you mess up the wiring causing all kinds of problems (ESD, radiation, emissions).(*) Test limits depend on the purpose of the product.