Pick & Place MachineTVM920 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 11:19:28 pm
content: I already own a TVM802. To extend the production capabilities I am looking for a second machine which could be the TVM920.Please everybody who owns a TVM920, or know how well it is working, share your experience.Harry

author: ttsthermaltech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 24, 2016, 11:29:43 pm
content: Harry,Just got my TVM920 a couple days ago. Still working on getting things up and running. Will start posting pics / videos and info as time permits. Unfortunately, I am super busy at the moment, and finding the time to document things is at a premium.Rob.TTS Thermaltech

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 25, 2016, 02:26:46 am
content: HiLooking at the dimensions on the machine ... they have the first dimension as L997 mm . With the font on this browser and my tired old eyes that came out as 1.997 mm. I spend a bit of time trying to figure out how it could be 2X as long as wide and still be the machine in the pictures ...Bob

author: ttsthermaltech
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 27, 2016, 11:24:57 pm
content: The TVM920 is no "little" machine.It is 43.5" wide x 32" deep x 30" tallAlso, take into consideration it weights about 250Lbs without monitor, monitor arm, keyboard, feeders, etc.The side mounted monitor is not included in the dimensions either, and neither are the feeders which can easily hang out up to 21" on either side of the machine (12mm feeder with 330mm diameter reel installed).So, all said you are looking at just over 74" (6'2") in depth not taking int consideration that you need access to both front and back to deal with feeders, and load / unload circuit boards.But if size is not an issue, so far I am very impressed with build quality. The machine work is exceptional. All machined parts are anodized black, and the machine bed is perfectly flat, without any machining marks. They must have machined to tolerance, ground and anodized, or purchased pre-finished stock machine base stock, as it has a beautiful brushed anodized finish.The cabinet is solid. All electronics are accessed via removable covers on all sides of the machine.- Built in Atom based PC, PCI based vision input card, and PC power supply on right side.- Air Manifold for feeders / vacuum heads on front (30) and rear (30)- Ethernet based control card, closed loop stepper drives, motor / control PSU, and IO board on left side.All components are mounted on removable back planes, so servicing is going to be relatively easy should a component need replacing.Manifolds are serviceable, and valve bodies can be removed individually, which is nice, considering I have seen others with bolt together manifolds which you must take completely apart to service a valve in the middle.....Feeder air manifolds also are controller via separate control boards which appear to be connected to the main Ethernet based controller via serial network. Could be RS485 or CAN. I haven't dug in too deep yet. In any case, each bank of 30 solenoid valves has a separate control board on the serial control loop. In all there are 6 air manifolds, 3 x 10 valves in front, and 3 x 10 valves in back.Machine also came with white LED lighting in the cabinet, which is a nice touch. It is controlled via a switch on the front panel.There is a E-Stop button hard wired to drive power supplies. Computer is on separate circuit, so an E-Stop will not kill the computer.There are also 3 push buttons on the front of the machine to allow for starting / stopping a board, pausing a board, or stepping through the board one component at a time. A nice feature so you don't have to go back to the PC keyboard / mouse every time you want to load and start a new board / panel.Anyhow, I will try and post some pics later this week when things slow down for the long weekend here in Canada.Rob@Thermaltech

author: ottopilot
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 04, 2016, 11:06:07 pm
content: Definitely would like to see pics and some videos of this thing in action when you get the time, Rob. Looks like this unit solves the Z-axis travel issue and flaky feeder issues of the NeoDen 4.

author: hs8888
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: July 07, 2016, 05:55:19 pm
content: Greetings to all,I may be among those eagerly waiting for some feedback from Rob (we are using Philips Eclipse now and it's end is lurking around the corner..). In the mean time I'm posting a product folder specifying all original Philips feeders available at some time for GEM machines (and they should be compatible with the TVM920, just look at "GEM" column). It was helpful to me several times when identifying some second hand feeder offers, so I hope It may be helpful to somebody else here...Cheers

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 12, 2016, 09:11:06 pm
content: what happens to the TVM920 ?It is not more available at Aliexpress."Pick and Place Machine QIHE TVM920 High precision Double vision SMD p&p for LED/PCB SMT lighting production assembly linePrice: US $6,500.00 / pieceSorry, this item is no longer available!"

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 12:46:58 am
content: It's not just the TVM920. Most machines by other seller are also removed.Even some RF board that I wanted to buy from other seller is removed.Not sure what happen.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 01:19:41 am
content: HiIt still shows up on their web site and it fills up half of the printed literature I got along with my TVM802B earlier this week.Bob

author: Smallsmt
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 13, 2016, 07:01:17 am
content: Maybe a simple reason the Chinese need to pay a member fee to use Aliexpress and that's not cheap.Sales in China is not good now so maybe the supplier want to save money.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 12:39:39 am
content: Quote from: Smallsmt on July 13, 2016, 07:01:17 amHiThe company listings are still up and running. Unless I'm missing something that implies they still are current on their payments.Bob

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 01:17:28 am
content: Just found that Aliexpress has changed their requirement as a seller.They need to be a company to sell electronics item now (you know the red badge thingy).So, all this while they are individual seller for their companies (hence many sellers representing the same company).

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 01:19:59 am
content: Quote from: 48X24X48X on July 14, 2016, 01:17:28 amHiBased on the transaction process on my TVM802B ... it was not an individual seller. The whole thing went through the company first and then was finalized on Alibaba.Bob

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 03:39:09 am
content: https://world.taobao.com/search/search.htm?_ksTS=1468467167113_331&spm=a21bp.7806943.20151106.1&_input_charset=utf-8&navigator=all&json=on&q=TVM920&callback=__jsonp_cb&cna=ShKvDz0uo28CAbrLBSzQ%2FPF5&abtest=_AB-LR517-LR854-LR895-PR517-PR854-PV895_2462

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 01:06:39 pm
content: Quote from: ebclr on July 14, 2016, 03:39:09 amsorry, but my Chinese is a little rusty :-)

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 03:03:48 pm
content: HiGoogle translate is your friendLooks like the TVM920 is back up for sale. Selling for just under $6,000 US at this moment's exchange rate.Bob

author: RobK_NL
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:32:59 pm
content: It was never gone from taobao in the first place.It may have been answered before, but can anyone explain the rather large difference in price between taobao and Ali? Not to mention that there are two vastly different prices ($ 6500 vs $ 7200) on Ali.

author: uncle_bob
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 14, 2016, 07:59:32 pm
content: Quote from: RobK_NL on July 14, 2016, 07:32:59 pmHiTaobao = internal China price, you are unlikely to get it cheaper.Ali = price with some room for negotiation and fancy packing.Bob

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2016, 09:17:46 pm
content: a question to "mrpackethead" regarding reel changing in the TVM920 (I didn't want to hijack the neoden4 thread).As an example, with the TVM802 I need about 3 to 5 minutes to change a reel (depends if the reel is new or not).Its more like inserting a film in an old 8mm movie projector, a really tricky job.For my last board I changed 20 reels, you can imaging how long that takes, some hours.How is this compared with the TVM 920 ?

author: thommo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 04:53:38 am
content: FROM PICK & PLACE - OVERVIEWhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/desktop-pick-and-place-overview/75/G'day Harry,Yes - in its current release there is provision for up to10 different Tray profiles/components.We're actually in discussion with the QiHe engineering guys at present with a view to increasing this qty , and they seem really open and co-operative - which is a great and positive sign!The only other limit is the area remaining, after the bare PCB space is subtracted. So, pretty much the entire machine platform [inside the transport system constraints].Hope this info assists and is helpful. We'll will report the outcome of these discussions once confirmed.PeterQuote from: harry4516 on August 05, 2016, 09:13:58 pm

author: cram.redan
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: August 06, 2016, 11:36:45 pm
content: @ttsthermaltechThanks a lot for your detailed description of your new TVM920 machine, and especially the quality of the mechanics side. Seems to be a good unit.I'm myself considering purchasing one, and we are hesitating because of the "East origin" presumed risk...Could you tell us me/us more about the software that's delivered with the machine.Are you satisfied with it ? Is it correctly translated and fully functional? Any frustrations ?Also another question; does the TVM920 has an S-Curve deceleration available on the Z-Axis to cope with very small and sensitive parts? (in fact, does it allow for separate parameters to be set on the X/Y and Z positionning speeds?)Many thanks for your reply. Marc/Paris

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 04:17:53 pm
content: I am also thinking about purchasing the 920.But if I look at the few pictures or videos I can see that the 920does not have any PCB holder.Instead the PCB is mounted with some funny pins and screws,like in the Neoden4 or the Chinese stencil printers.I have written to qihe because I will not purchase a $10k machine and then manufacture the PCB holder by myself.

author: TJ232
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 07, 2016, 07:25:24 pm
content: Quote from: harry4516 on August 07, 2016, 04:17:53 pmThis is something definitely good to know about. A bad designed PCB holder can be a nightmare, no matter for good is the P&P machine itself

author: technotronix
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 04:38:09 am
content: I don't have an experience of Pick & Place Machine TVM920 but from some of the review i would say it operate more fluently and pick and place more accurately but additional cost may be required.

author: harry4516
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 11, 2016, 08:33:38 pm
content: Quote from: technotronix on August 11, 2016, 04:38:09 amthats the problem, it is currently almost impossible to get reliable information about the TVM920,not even a video on youtube which is very strange.There are a few videos on the chinese tube channel, one of them show a pcb with two resistors totally out of center and all ICs rotated by a few deg.When I complained this at qihe they told me that the machine was not ajusted correctly and sent me a new video with perfect placement.Currently I am not sure if the TVM920 is any better then the TVM802, except the feeders.On the other hand, the 802 has a very nice PCB holder, the 920 does not have that.