New Scope! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 08:08:47 pm
content: Well new old one or old new one ?got it off eBay for £39 deliveredvery good condition, I would give it a 9 out of 10.New probes Ordered.Only problem I cant find an owners or repair manualfor download, so don't know the maximum input rating.Does anyone know where i can get someinfo on this old beauty ?(have done forum search no info found)Kenwood Trio CS-1566A

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2013, 11:55:57 pm
content: Is there an easy way to hook up my amateur radio which has 10w outputto the scope so i can inject say a 5Mhz signal to it to see how accurate the scope reads ?

author: tocsa120ls
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 05:56:21 am
content: Dude! Where on Earth can you get a HAM license without knowing how to work an oscilloscope?More seriously: I'd tap the oscillator output in your radio, definetly keep the O-Scope away from the aerial output. Most commercial units (that I saw) have the amplifier physically separated from the low-power stages, so you'll have a way to tap into a 'friendly' signal. If you can't find that (ARMY surplus radios are very compact for example), you'll have to make/buy an RF transformer like the SWR meters use.Now that I looked around, your scope has an 1Mhz reference signal on the top right, next to the TIME/DIV switch. Hook a probe onto that.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:40:19 am
content: Connect a probe to a speaker and hum a note ^^

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 06:57:22 am
content: If you have a CRT type TV (remember those?) tune it to a station and dangle the probe near the back and pick up a bit of the horizontal scan frequency. Varies from country to country but most likely 15,625Hz for 50Hz countries and 15,750Hz for 60Hz countries. Some TV stations derive this frequency from a rubidium standard so it's nearly as accurate as humming a note. ^^

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:30:59 am
content: Quote from: tocsa120ls on October 23, 2013, 05:56:21 amIn the UK, probably lots of other Countries tooQuote from: tocsa120ls on October 23, 2013, 05:56:21 amIt's 1kHz and reads slightly under on the scope which is why I wanted to use an externalsource to see if its the square wave or scope that is reading it wrongThanks All for the other sugestions.

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:49:31 am
content: Quote from: Flump on October 23, 2013, 08:30:59 amNice catch.If you have a DMM you trust, then you can use a simple DC voltage from any stable source and feed it to the scope when DC coupled. You can then compare the measured level to that of the 1 KHz test signal to check the vertical accuracy of the scope.If it is any help, then I can provide a link to the service manual for a CS-1560, which is the 15 MHz version of the same scope series. No operational manual in there though, but there are plenty of videos on YouTube to learn from. The controls on your scope are quite standard, so no troubles there. I'd recommendw2aew's oscilloscope classas one of your options.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:57:51 am
content: I'm getting a very Hung Chang vibe from this scope. Do you have an assembly date and place of origin?Here's a blurry schematic.http://www.diagramasde.com/im/115076_cs-1566-a-trio-cs1566a-jpg.jpg

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:02:24 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 23, 2013, 08:57:51 amJapan, first half of the eighties.Kenwood is a well known Japanese manufacturer, and yes all their schematics from that period looks like that.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:09:19 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on October 23, 2013, 09:02:24 amYes, I know who Kenwood is. Well known for Ham equipment and car stereos as well.It just bears a strong resemblance to the Hung Chang designed scopes that were rebadged by pretty much everyone but HP and Tek.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:22:18 am
content: http://www.radiomuseum.org/images/radio/trio_kenwood/zweikanal_oszillograf_cs_1566a_539529.jpgIt has a Variable Eingangsabswacher. I don't know what that is, but it sounds cool!A steal at only 1469 Marks!Anyone know what the Mark to Dollar exchange rate was back then?Edit: Ok in 1982 1 dollar was 2.242 FRG Marks so the scope was $655 USD

author: Mr Simpleton
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:27:46 am
content: Trio == KenwoodWay back (50-70's) Trio was the trade mark of Ham-equipment and measuring stuff... but slowly they started use Kenwood brand.from wikipedia: The brand recognition of Kenwood surpassed that of Trio's, and in 1981, Trio decided on using the Kenwood name worldwide and renamed itself Kenwoodhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenwood_Corporation

author: ElectroIrradiator
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:30:43 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 23, 2013, 09:22:18 amVariable input attenuator, IE. variable Volts/Div.The German language has some absolutely wonderful technical terms...

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 09:37:52 am
content: Quote from: ElectroIrradiator on October 23, 2013, 09:30:43 amOnly the Germans could come up with a word like rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.I love looking at languages. It's like looking at strands of DNA and seeing a common ancestor.Mit luftpudefartøj er fuld af ål.Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale.

author: psycho0815
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 10:26:08 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 23, 2013, 09:37:52 amWell we do like our compound words.However that input attenuator should really be Eingangsabschwächer. I didn't actually get what that was supposed to mean until i read the englisch translation.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 10:41:10 am
content: Nice! it's very similar to mine.

author: mzacharias
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 12:03:27 pm
content: I like the Japanese built Kenwood 'scopes for reliability, simplicity and relative ease of service.I would suggest you need a higher bandwidth if you intend to look at oscillators and so forth, and of course be sure to use the x10 probe for anything over perhaps 500kHz.Alan Wolke (W2AEW) has some excellent videos on Youtube some of which deal with high frequency probing techniques - if you're into ham radio probably worth a look.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 12:24:29 pm
content: I used to use a very similar looking CS1560A2 at a job I started in June 1982.

author: rbola35618
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 08:45:25 pm
content: This looks like an Hitachi Scope V60

author: JOERGG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2013, 10:40:05 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 23, 2013, 09:22:18 amVariable is in german the plural of variabel = variableEingang = inputAbschwächer = attenuatorhttp://dict.leo.org/Those are the Volts/Div knobs with the red uncal potentiometer.

author: JOERGG
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 12:38:35 am
content: Not the CS-1566A, but as close as i could come without signing in or paying for it.The Trio CS-1560A has a maximum input voltage of 600Vp-p or 300V (DC and AC peak)http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/trio-scope.htmlDownload the file and unzip it afterwards, i did it with 7-ZIP but i had to "say" open with..., assigning .cz files to the program did not work for me.You will then get .jpg images of the manual with diagrams.The CS-1577A has a maximum input voltage of 500Vp-p or 250V (DC and AC peak)as you can see herehttp://www.eserviceinfo.com/download.php?fileid=17641Click on "To download the file, please click here"

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:39:23 pm
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 23, 2013, 08:57:51 amThanks very muchQuote from: mzacharias on October 23, 2013, 12:03:27 pmI have spent the last few days watching his videos, learnt more in the last few daysabout scopes than i have in yearsQuote from: JOERGG on October 24, 2013, 12:38:35 amThanks, I found the link where you can buy the manual from, I'm thinking about buying it and would like to putit up for download on here but dont know about the legalities of it

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 07:59:16 pm
content: Ask the seller if it's a digital copy. Obviously Trio would have copyrights on the original manual. They may or may not have given blanket permission for copying. Tektronix have provideda statementgiving permission to distribute manuals of their discontinued instruments, for example. Agilent have given permission to various sites, including BAMA, to distribute their discontinued manuals. No idea about Trio. In addition, the digital scan of the manual resulting from scanning, stitching enhancement and OCR may carry its own copyright as additional work. In that case the person doing the scan would also need to grant permission.If you're doing the scan yourself, then it's only the Trio copyrights you might have to worry about. The only example of this becoming a problem that I can recall is someone that bought the rights to Heathkit manuals and subsequently sent cease and desist letters to take down copies of Heathkit manuals.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 24, 2013, 08:00:25 pm
content: I'd contact Kenwood if you haven't already. I had a Tenma scope with no manual and I contacted the distributor and they sent me a scanned manual in PDF form.EDIT:I went a head and contacted them via e-mail saying I had a friend who needed a manual for an old scope and we're suspicious about paying some third party for a PDF.I'll see what they say.

author: Stonent
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 12:00:32 am
content: Quote

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 05:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: Flump on October 22, 2013, 11:55:57 pmFirst, a quick sanity check: 10W into a 50ohm load will be about how much voltage? Can the scope handle it?V^2/50ohm = 10WV^2 = 500V = 22V (approx)OK, that's reasonable. That's an RMS voltage; the peak will be closer to 32V, and Vpp will be around 64V. 10V/div should display it reasonably.Hook a coax from your transmitter, through a T adapter, to a 50 ohm dummy load that's capable of handling at least 10W.You might plug that T adapter directly into the scope's input, or you could attach a x10 scope probe to it.After you've done this, if you find a discrepancy between your transmitter and your scope, how will you know which one is inaccurate?

author: KJDS
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:20:33 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on October 25, 2013, 05:53:30 pmIn terms of frequency the ham radio should be very accurate, and it's easy enough to verify by listening to one of many beacons.I'd rather use a big attenuator than a T adaptor and dummy load as the reflections will be lower, especially at VHF and above

author: sync
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2013, 06:39:17 pm
content: Quote from: AG6QR on October 25, 2013, 05:53:30 pmWhich can be too much. Scopes have a derating of the max. voltage with increasing frequency. Attached is the curve for a Tek 2246.

author: Flump
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 27, 2013, 02:01:05 am
content: Quote from: Stonent on October 24, 2013, 08:00:25 pmHey Stonent thanks for tryingAnd thank you to everyone else for the bits of advice,I found some android apps which do waveform generatingand been playing around with them and a friend boughtone of them dds china generators and the scope readsfrequency accurately its just the internal reference which is .2 of a division outwhich i don't think is worth worrying about.Volts/Div is spot onanyone want a pdf copy of the original Trio CS-1566A manual send me a private message.