Moving test gear within the EU - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 11:36:36 am
content: This is a very specific question but I like to be rather safe than sorry. I relocated from the Czech Republic to Germany last year because of a great job opportunity. I have not moved all my stuff from home yet. Now it's the turn of my test gear. Is there some legal limitation for bringing the stuff over (from CZE to DE) ?I am asking because in my formal company We always had to deal with export control even within the EU. Above that I've been already pulled over by the border control although they cared only about cigarettes and alcohol.They may find it hard to believe that I am sane and all the stuff is just for my hobby...Any comment appreciated.

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 12:15:03 pm
content: Both Germany and Czech Republic are part of the EU customs union as well as the EU VAT area.If you as a private person(!) buy stuff in Germany and take it with you over the border, there is no issue. If you want to send your stuff back home to Czech, it might be possible that the Czech customs office wants to see some hard evidence that the stuff you sent is actually your private property and not some kind of commercial shipment if the sending involves lots of gear that one usually does not associate with "private individuals". Perhaps not. I don't know about Czech customs and i can't tell you what Czech custom officials will or will not do...Different situation would be selling or buying stuff across a border within the the EU VAT area (i.e., like you ordering from Amazon UK, for example), because different member states have different VAT rules. If the buyer is a private person and the seller is a proper professional commercial outfit (like Amazon UK), then the seller usually deals with those VAT issues. If the trade or shipment is between two commercial entities (i.e., no private person involved) then what i said above does not apply.In any case, whatever issues might arise with the Czech customs office would only revolve around goods where Czech VAT rate would differ from German VAT rate. Due to Czech and Germany both being in the EU Customs Union, import/export customs will not be charged.If you say that you had to deal with export control even within the EU, well i can't tell what this was about. If sensitive goods are involved, export or import might be restricted by local customs regulations. But this should not be relevant to normal test gear...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 01:04:53 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 11:36:36 amNo, that export control is about "where to pay tax shenanigan". You are free to move anything within the EU, like furniture, equipment and such. I know I did. Even on a plane. They looked strange sometimes, but I've convinced them that the soldering wire or an arduino or a multimeter doesn't pose any threat to the plane.

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 01:09:11 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on March 31, 2016, 01:04:53 pmNot true. Tax != export control. E.g. dual-use (military/civilian) stuff can still be an issue. I have had that experience while working for an US company (working in NL that is) where we had to check every item we shipped to a denied parties list. That check also had to be done for stuff shipped inside the EU.Not that this is relevant for your average privately owned Arduino..

author: Kilrah
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 01:12:30 pm
content: Quote from: wkb on March 31, 2016, 01:09:11 pmAnd that's US shenanigans

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 01:28:37 pm
content: Great input elgonzo, thanksI forgot to mention that I go to Prague by car nearly every weekend.Common sense tells me that theoretically there should not be any issue. We all are travelling with our expensive iPads, iPhones, cameras, laptops etc. all the time and nobody cares. A one exception is my company laptop where I have a certificate of the ownership for that. Note that I had the same paper back in Czech too.From what I heard German Customs is pretty similar to the Czech counterpart. How can I proof that it is a personal stuff ?If I got pulled over by German border police, like I did, and they were curious what kind of equipment I got in the car I would have really hard time to explain that all of that is just for hobby and personal use. Especially when I drive a company car.Maybe I am just thinking too much.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 01:54:09 pm
content: One more comment on the export control thing. We were in the field of industrial automation so dual use might be the reason.I've already forgotten details but all hardware was always shipped through some courier. There is absolutely no carry on hardware outside the country allowed. Neither at my current job nor theformalformer one.Practically it means when I went for some testing to Germany, I needed to ship the hardware few days in advance, then travel to Germany by car, do the tests and send the hardware back home afterwards.There were a few exceptions but we needed to obtain required papers anyway.

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 02:13:35 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 01:28:37 pmI think it is a good idea to ask this question to the Czech customs office and follow their advice before you send stuff. Perhaps perusing the web site of the Czech customs office might reveal relevant information.The other option is to simply send the stuff and see whether it goes through customs. If the customs office holds the shipment, tell them that it is your own private property. If they don't believe you they will tell you what kind of proof they need. But i can't tell you how easy or difficult it would be to provide this proof after you sent the stuff, since i have no clue how Czech customs office normally operates...QuoteWell, that's the best option here in my opinion. Take some of your stuff every weekend with your car from Germany to Czech. There should not be any problem...

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 02:24:15 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 01:28:37 pmYou are thinking too much!

author: Aeternam
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 03:02:53 pm
content: Generally speaking you are allowed to relocate your personal stuff anywhere in the EU using whatever means of transport you see fit. The only exception to this are tobacco, alcohol, perfume, coffee, commercial vehicles andarticles for use in the exercise of a trade or profession, other than portable instrumentsof the applied or liberal arts.So if we're talking about scopes, PSUs and what have you; you are golden.If you plan on putting entire 19" racks of gear into your car, not so much. If this were the case you should definitively check with German customs:www.zoll.de

author: m100
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 04:41:49 pm
content: Normal commercially available test kit?Its an internal market, there are no restrictions, that principle applies across the EUhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_marketAlongtime ago when travelling with anything more than paperwork we always carried a Customs Carnet that covered everything.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Carnet

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:00:01 pm
content: QuoteSimply i don't believe that there are much people that make smuggling from electronic instrument. Furthermore ,the german info customs and they only do reference to tobacco,alcohol and combustibles.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:04:13 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 01:28:37 pmPack everything really messy, and take some household stuff with each load.No one would believe you would treat company equipment like that.

author: vodka
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 06:39:47 pm
content: QuoteAnd you believe that the custom polices are silly and they suck the finger.One thing ,they have seen from all. If you do this, the polices can think that you carry some illegal thing.Instead of to be 5 minute at control maybe you will be 4 or 5 hour, besides they will forced unpacked your stuffs.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 07:22:14 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2016, 02:24:15 pmYup !Quote from: station240 on March 31, 2016, 06:04:13 pmThat's true.Moreover, the world should know that there is a certain community of EEs who rather spend couple hundred bucks on test gear than on a new Apple product O0

author: jitter
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 08:32:16 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 01:28:37 pmI've been stopped several times in my own country (NL) but never at any border while travelling by car inside the EU (NL, B, D, L, A and I, never been to CZ, though).

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 08:42:14 pm
content: Quote from: jitter on March 31, 2016, 08:32:16 pmMy former colleagues and I have been already stopped few times by the German Customs Police close to Waidhaus.Last time it was a month ago when my French colleague and I drove a car back to Germany. It was late evening on Sunday. I must mention that they were very professional. They asked only about alcohol and cigarettes. The did not care about furniture and boxes we had in the car.I've never heard about someone being pulled over by the Czech customs police. I think they focus more on our eastern friends.

author: Warhawk
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 08:48:27 pm
content: Well, that's the best option here in my opinion. Take some of your stuff every weekend with your car from Germany to Czech. There should not be any problem...Hups. There is a small misunderstanding. I am moving my stuff from Czech to Germany. Not the opposite.But it should work bot ways, right ?

author: elgonzo
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 09:10:29 pm
content: Quote from: Warhawk on March 31, 2016, 08:48:27 pmOops. I got the direction wrong. My bad, i apologize for not paying attention(My previous posts still stand if you just substitute "Czech customs office" with "German customs office")Anyway, it should work both ways. German border officials will perhaps stop you, but only to check your ID/passport (because European immigration crisis and all that...).

author: wkb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 31, 2016, 09:14:53 pm
content: Quote from: m100 on March 31, 2016, 04:41:49 pmOMG... don't get me started on ATA carnet.. we used to drag computer demo kit around Europe. What a glorious mess that was... Paper fetisjism in the extreme!