Moving the lab to the attic, best way to prevent a fire? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: zkrx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 09:07:01 pm
content: I've been working in my basement for 5+ years. All concrete walls, so I was not too scared of fire. I'm now moving to a new house without basement and the only place I have for my lab is the attic. Everything there is wooden: floor and roof, + modern isolation panels that look like they could catch fire (not sure what they are). What are your recommendations for adding a bit of protection?For walls, roof and floor, I'm thinking something like plastic panels or maybe cheap carpet by the square meter (it's probably flame retardant - I know, not ideal). It's not a house I own, so I can't do anything I want, nor do I want to sacrifice too much money. I'm mainly looking for basic protection against solder splatters. Someone knows about a perfect lightweight and economical material? I have perhaps between 10-20 square meters to cover.I'll buy a CO2 extinguisher and a fire blanket. Probably throw a smoke detector in there.I usually power off my bench when I leave. Except for the occasions where I need to run an experiment over some time. I'm usually very disciplined with the soldering iron, but it didn't prevent me from forgetting it once or twice in 5 years...Anyone went through a similar situation?Oh, and don't get me started on the 3d printer...

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 09:26:36 pm
content: If you're worried about solder splatters setting something on fire, I think you're being a tad pessimistic. I've burned carpet in the past doing that, but it won't start a fire. Modern carpets are designed to not support combustion if a lit cigarette is dropped on them. The fire risks in an attic are mainly electrical. I don't know about houses in Iceland, but in the UK, many of the electrics go through the roof space, especially the upstairs lighting but often times some socket wiring is found there too. A loose connection or damaged cable can potentially start a fire, regardless of your lab.The other thing that would concern me about an attic lab is that Iceland is not particularly warm for most of the year and most attics in European houses are 'cold roof' design, with the ceiling being insulated by a bed of insulating material. This is typically done because insulation (especially the cheaper stone wool/fibre wool stuff) benefits from thickness, a good insulation system will be 30-45cm of the stuff above the ceiling, and then the attic is kept well ventilated to reduce the chance of the timbers rotting and condensation forming on interior surfaces which can lead to mold etc. Have you thought about whether the temperature will be manageable in the winter? A heater adds fire risk, of course. Even if it is a 'warm roof', the area will usually be unheated (unless it's a conversion) and you will only have the benefit of passive heat from below, so I think it will feel reasonably cold in winter unless the insulation is excellent.

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 09:46:43 pm
content: Quote from: zkrx on August 30, 2023, 09:07:01 pmI have an attic lab/office. As tom66 noted, heating might be an issue so make sure to have some form of heating when it gets cold. Also make sure to have a smoke detector fitted. I find that important; in the end stuff can be replaced, family members and myself not so much.An electrical fire is most likely so make sure to use good quality outlets & power cords. Only connect to mains what you use and leave everything else disconnected. Last but not least, make sure your equipment is electrically safe. Maybe have an inspector come over for a safety inspection.

author: Benta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 10:46:41 pm
content: I think heating is the least problem in Iceland.Apart from that, all very good points.

author: themadhippy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 10:57:46 pm
content: Quotespray it with flamebar

author: jmw
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 11:01:44 pm
content: Since the fire hazard is mostly electrical, I was going to point you in the direction of arc fault circuit interruptors (AFCI), but evidently Wikipedia says they are not very common outside US/Canada... plus they have to be installed at breaker panel or very early in the branch circuit. Definitely inspect power cords and outlets for cracking in cold weather though.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 30, 2023, 11:37:26 pm
content: if your wiring is good and your environment is sensible there should be very little fire risk. curtains, bed sheet.Don't clog equipment vents, don't leave high power stuff on overnight.the only thing thats electronic that likes to start fires is welding machines and trash cansthe real question is if you trust your home wiring.

author: BrokenYugo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 12:40:45 am
content: Just the usual practices. Whole bench on a power switch (kept off when not in use), keep a fire extinguisher around, don't do stupid stuff inside, don't leave piles of crap around that could catch fire, which is about the only way your're starting an otherwise empty wood room, ever try to light a board without kindling?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 12:42:31 am
content: also you can buy an assortment and fuses and keep them correct. don't replace the 1/8 watt fuse with a 30 amp because you had itequipment that is normally safe smokes without a fuse. takes a little bit of effort to find the right fuse but if you keep them correct its going to be alot better.

author: SmallCog
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 12:27:18 pm
content: At both work and home my benches have a single power switch.This controls power to things that shouldn’t be left on (soldering irons etc) as well as lights.Thus it’s very obvious if I’ve left things on

author: Kalvin
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 12:53:17 pm
content: In addtion to mentioned above, you may also want to purchase a timer clock that will switch off your soldering iron(s) after certain period. Even if you forget to power off your bench, the soldering irons will power off no matter what.Edit: Same applies to the coffee machine: If your coffee machine doesn't turn off automatically, use a timer clock with it, too.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 12:56:40 pm
content: Quote from: SmallCog on August 31, 2023, 12:27:18 pmThis!!A master power switch with indicator light that you can flip when you leave to switch everything off makes things much safer.If something needs to be left running overnight you run a separate power feed to it. Usually an extension cord, which makes it obvious what you have done and less likely you'll forget about it later.Most fires that burn houses down happen when no one is there, or when everyone is asleep.Mainly because when things fail and start a fire there's usually a bang first, some smoke and obvious indications of something bad starting to happen. Any time that happens when someone is in the room or nearby they notice it and deal with the issue before it gets out of control. It's when no one is there to deal with it that you get house fires. So by cutting the power to your entire work bench or work room you reduce the risks a lot.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 01:33:57 pm
content: Do not store li-ion batteries, install the usual smoke/fire alarm.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 01:48:57 pm
content: You can store lithium batteries, just need to do it in a metal cabinet and in a way that will be safe if they decide to catch fire. But yeah, not having them at all is always going to be the safer option.Most of the time lithium batteries catch on fire while being charged, discharged or with a time delay after some sort of damage had occurred prior.It's pretty uncommon for a lithium cell that is in storage to suddenly catch on fire for no real reason.

author: JohanH
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 02:22:10 pm
content: Quote from: jmw on August 30, 2023, 11:01:44 pmAFCI or AFDD is slowly becoming a thing over in Europe, too. Now they are stated as optional in our national electrical standards.An RCD or GFCI is definitely recommended if there is none installed. You can get portable ones. Portable AFDDs seem to exist, but are not so common.

author: tridac
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 31, 2023, 04:48:37 pm
content: Have several bits of kit that can run 24x7, computers, test gear and work in progress The rule here is that any such kit running unattended must be in an all metal enclosure, correctly fused, or on a breaker. Keep all flammable solvents, gasses etc outside the lab, other than in minimal quantities, and remove when done. Pay attention to wiring installation quality as well, never skimp. Check power feeds and outlets once a year for loose terminations and crimps, especially for loads of more than a hundred watts. Keep a fire extinguisher within easy reach, just outside the lab door. Little fire risk with a common sense approach and attention to detail...

author: zkrx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 04:31:58 am
content: All sound advices, some of which I already follow.The house is recent, the roof is airtight, so heating will not be an issue. Trapping the fumes will be as I have no way to expell these outside (no window, no opening). A charcoal filter maybe? Not sure how often the filter will need to be changed.The roof is low (1m50 at its center, I cannot stand straight). The (expensive) insulation panels from the roof are apparent. I think I'll protect them with some cheap LDPE plastic protective sheet.The wooden floor has interstices with insulating material in it. Looks like wool, or worst case pulverized recycled paper. I wouldn't want 380°C solder splatter inside of these, and my landlord won't like finding SMD components scattered everywhere once I leave. I will need to cover the floor with something. A carpet sounds nice, except that it's hard to clean (also ESD?). Maybe the best way is to use cheap wooden flooring tiles: easy to vacuum.Perhaps I should put my recycled 18650 battery cells outside in the garden.As for the hacked chinese 3d printer with improvised heated chamber (the most hazardous of all)... most likely a no-go for the attic. Maybe in the garden shed?

author: zkrx
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 01, 2023, 04:41:39 am
content: > master switchI personally use master switches everywhere (living room, kitchen, etc.) and turn them off whenever I'm done. I don't like wasted power/heat. It also prevents equipment from aging prematurely. I'm amazed how nobody I know does that. People don't realize how modern gear always stays on consuming power.