Oscilloscope and Multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Mike489
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 02:23:01 am
content: Hello, I'm Mike and I am new EEVblog. I have been dabbling with electronics for a little bit and I did have a old CRT topward oscilloscope with 25 MHz of bandwidth, a broken trigger function, and drew 'straight' lines as if it was drunk. I recently moved, sold my old oscilloscope and I need a new one. I am also looking for a decent multimeter.I have a basic understand of electronics at the moment. I am messing around with the arduino, shift registers, basic serial communication, I/O boards, PWM, etc. Nothing super precise nor high frequency. That being said, I do not want to pigeon hole myself with an oscilloscope that with be satisfactory right now but be useless once I get into anything slightly more advanced. Also, I'm looking for a proper multimeter as well. What I lack is real world examples of when I need that additional bandwidth or features on an oscilloscope. If anyone could provide such examples, it would be greatly appreciated.I stumbled upon Dave's videos while researching oscilloscopes, hence why I signed up to EEVblog. Fantastic videos, just really accelerated my learning with regards to electronics. Also, I think I need that negative feedback t-shirt. It may have been because of how many times Dave said Rigol is amazing in the videos, not because I actually learned enough to make an informed decision, but I am looking at purchasing one. I am in Canada and looking to order through Tequipment. If anyone knows a better distributor for Canada, please let me know.My current choices:If 50 MHz is enough, Rigol DS1054Z:http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/If 50 MHz is not enough, Rigol DS2072A:http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS2072A/Multimeter, Hioki DT4253:http://www.tequipment.net/Hioki/DT4253/?v=65116Budget is flexible, just need to justify it.My ideal oscilloscope is one that is expandable in both bandwidth and features though the purchase of options.I am not interested in hacks / serial key gens to 'unlock' such things especially when they are not unlockable features officially, ie. 100 MHz hack for the 1052E or 1074Z. It will not be a factor in determining my purchase. If I need 100 MHz, then I will be justified in purchasing it.I am guessing that getting the 1054Z to start is probably the best course of action and what I am leaning to. I am thinking that by the time I need something like the 2072, technology will be better and my dollar will go further then anyways. Plus, I'll have 2 oscilloscopes.I am really interested in your opinions and experiences with oscilloscope/multimeter purchasing strife and really appreciate any replies.Regards,Michael

author: Wytnucls
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 03:23:48 am
content: The Hioki DT4253 is well made and safe, but expensive for what you get and rather limiting if this will be your only meter.Low 6000 count, narrow true RMS bandwidth, uA/mA DC range only, poor 0.1 Ohm and 1nF resolutions. You can do better for that money.Have a look at this multimeter spreadsheet, listing most relevant features:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-spreadsheet/?action=dlattach;attach=123371The DS10054Z is a good choice and has ample bandwidth for a beginner or hobbyist.

author: vargoal
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 04:09:35 am
content: Ya i have heard good things about the DS1054Z. Also i believe it's easy to unlock the bandwidth software limit on it but i haven't tried it yet.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 04:35:48 am
content: I have some questions, because you are being a bit vague about your budget. At the same time you are putting some restrictions on where you want to buy.A "flexible budget"is quite open. With the two items you mentioned I assume you are looking at around $200 for the multimeter and around $400 to $600 for a scope. Right?As Wytnucls said, the Hioki is not a meter for electronics and not a good buy IMHO.IMHO, and those of some others, you would be better off having at least two good meters than one super multimeter. Tequipment has the Amprobe AM-270 that is a great meter for the price and will cost you around $220 for two. There is also the AM-140 or AM-160 which are solid meters.If you want to do something else, then you can trust this seller and this multimeter:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-BM829-Digital-Multimeter-Dual-Display-AC-DC-TRMS-Dual-Temp-10-000-Count-/201070664254He is our friend here, Franky, AKA iloveeletronics. He will take care of you as well or better than Tequipment. This is from my experience and many others here. The BM829 is a great meter that will do what you need and is a great value.Other choices for multimeters will depend on what your actual budget is.Buying a scope with upgrade options and then saying you will just a better scope if you need it is a bit contradictory. The upgrade options for the DS1000Z series are VERY expensive. With what you say you want to do, just get a DS1052E and buy a better scope later when you know what you actually need. Don't buy anything better than the DS1054Z at least.Just my humble opinions.

author: Mike489
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 05:08:15 am
content: I try to buy things at that point of diminishing returns. What is my 80% solution? I really don't know where that price point is but if it is higher than where I am looking, I will see if I can justify it. I am guessing the price point is around that $400 to $600 mark for an oscilloscope and around the $200 mark for a multimeter as you mentioned.I was just looking at the Amprobe 160, it is on sale on Tequipement for $233 right now. Buy now and save on shipping with the 1054Z?I was not very clear when I mentioned my ideal scope. It would be nice to have something that I can unlock and easily upgrade as I need it but I do not think it is practical on entry level scopes. So I was thinking along the same lines that it would make more sense just to buy a new one when I need it and have the bonus of having two scopes. I was just looking for some confirmation.I did see the reviews for the Brymen, just hesitant with the lack of availability here in Canada.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 05:20:08 am
content: As a Canadian living in Chile, borders mean nothing to me. When I was in Canada I also had no problems buying from outside. What is your concern?

author: Mike489
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 05:36:05 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on December 27, 2014, 05:20:08 amHas nothing to do with any sort of difficulty buying outside the country. If there is a brand that is uncommon, has an unprofessional website, and only seems to have popularity with a specific electronics community, it simply raises questions.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 05:53:09 am
content: I think you need to read some more. Brymen is re-branded by Greenelee, for example, the DM830A is exactly the same as the Brymen BM829. Brymen is also the OEM for Amprobe AM-2X0 series such as the AM-270, and the AM-140 and AM-160, the Extech MM series of meters, and provide their chipsets to Yokogawa and others.They meet the latest IEC requirements for CAT ratings and have third party test reports to support their claims.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2014, 10:02:20 am
content: Quote from: Mike489 on December 27, 2014, 05:08:15 amDefinitely entry level, but the 1054Z would certainly fit here, and you can unlock the software options and bump the bandwidth if you wish (comes in at $375.06 @ Tequipment, and unlocking it will improve an already excellent value).You can then either save those funds, or put them to better use elsewhere.Quote from: Mike489 on December 27, 2014, 05:08:15 amIt's reasonable IMHO, especially as an entry level DSO isn't likely to retain a lot of resale value.Quote from: Mike489 on December 27, 2014, 05:08:15 amThey're very well made meters, and are sold under other brands as mentioned. You really can't go wrong, and they offer a lot more value than the big names out there (Fluke, Keysight/Agilent/whatever the hell their name is this week, ...).A couple of DMM's can be handy, and is more than doable within your budget without scraping bottom of the barrel on quality or features.Another often overlooked item you'll need, are test leads and connectors/ends. Invest in some good quality (i.e. silicone insulation), and you won't have to replace them often as you would with junk. Franky (store is linked above via the BM829), sells a lot of stuff that's good quality, and of course, there are plenty of other brands. Probemaster is one of my favorites, as they offer more value than Fluke/Pomona IME.