Ebay Soldering Tips Advice - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Twistx77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2012, 10:37:06 pm
content: Hi,I have a ATTEN 938D which uses 900M type tips and I want to get new tips for it and I found these on ebay:http://www.ebay.es/itm/11-x-hakko-solder-Iron-tip-for-BGA-soldering-rework-station-900M-T-B-I-3C-4C-2-4-/320955607655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aba71ea67#ht_2484wt_1398http://www.ebay.es/itm/New-10pcs-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Tip-900M-T-I-B-K-2C-3C-4C-1-2D-1-6D-3-2D-Black-/400349690878?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d36b37bfe#ht_2351wt_1398http://www.ebay.es/itm/10-Solder-Iron-Tip-For-Desoldering-Station-900M-Series-/360525116574?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Supply_Material_Handling_ET&hash=item53f0f8b49e#ht_2704wt_1398Does anyone have any exprience with those or can give any advice on where to get good ones for a reasonable price?Thank you.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2012, 10:39:49 pm
content: The sort of cheap cloned tips you will get from china but they aren't too bad.Good ones? They go for 6-7$ each if you're willing to get them

author: Twistx77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 08, 2012, 10:45:14 pm
content: Thanks but is there that much difference comparing it like for instances this onehttp://www.ebay.es/itm/HAKKO-Soldering-Tip-900M-T-3C-for-936-12-and-FX888-23BY-/130749332096?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e71447a80#ht_1584wt_1142?Thanks!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 03:37:40 am
content: Yes. Tips are old technology but the manufacturer had better assemble them in the right manner. Compatible Hakko tips from reputable maker Plato cost as much as original Hakko tips, but even then, its hard to say how long Plato tips survive compared to Hakko. The only way to know is to cut them in half and examine them under a microscope, or buy a set and see how long its survives.The basic iron tip has a copper core covered with a layer of iron, and finally a thin layer of chromium.What Hakko keeps secret is how thick are each layer? If you make the iron too thick, it will take longer to heat up, too thin, it will wear faster. If the Cr layer is too thin, the Fe will be subject to rust, be eaten by solder and rosin faster. If the machining of the copper tip is not perfect and doesn't fit the ceramic heater perfectly, it will not heat up as quickly as the genuine tip. I would suspect the Chinese have cut Hakko tips and measured the thickness of each layer, but how pure are the Chinese alloys used? How even is the deposition? How is the machining? Does Hakko dope their iron with anything they don't advertise? One subtle issue with true Hakko tips, is the rate of metal expansion, so the combination of alloys when heated bind the ceramic heater just enough, yet doesn't lock the the tip on the heater nor make it too loose. In the design is not proper, heat expansion can clamp the heater too much, making it difficult if not impossible to remove, or so much it cracks the heater, if its too loose, lack of contact with the heater will slow the heating process. Even if the Chinese copied the tips nearly perfectly, variations in quality control can still make some tips worse than others.A problem with eBay purchase and paying full price is is the Hakko tip true or a counterfeit? Since one cannot know for sure its true except if you buy from a Hakko authorized seller, you'd be better of taking the cheaper tips, its not true Hakko, but at least you know what you are getting. Since your iron is not a true Hakko, even if you got original tips, you can't be sure it will make the copy work like a true Hakko.In my experience with non-Hakko tips and irons, the most common issue is wear. But since they are >5x cheaper, you can experiment with what tips best work for you and in the future, when you can get a hold of an authorized dealer for a true tip, buy them then and now you have the experience to make your own comparison. I have not used non-Hakko 936 tips on a true Hakko because of the risk of damaging the heater, and frankly, my 5 tips show no wear after 3 years of use.

author: Twistx77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 09:57:43 am
content: Thanks saturation for so much info. It's a bit what I suspected. I think I'll by the cheap ones and see if I can get a couple of genuine Hakko ones for the tips that I use the most and compare.Thank you!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 01:54:13 pm
content: You're welcome. I don't think anyone has asked such a question before so its worth a detailed reply also to archive.A cross section of a Hakko tip, Fe coat and Cu sheath are the biggest items.http://www.hakko.com/english/maintenance/topic_tips_life_1.htmlhttp://www.tequipment.net/HakkoLeadCompatible.htmlHow long will a well cared tip last? Based on Hakko's data, each data point is 2000 solder applications. If you can estimate how thick that Fe layer is you can approximate the life before the Fe layer is eroded into the copper layer. Once the copper layer is penetrated the tip will rapidly deteriorate. If its not changed, it will bore a hole to the heating element.A tip is $7 and the element is $30, it worth it to change it when that occurs. If a hole occurs, it will be easily visible as a pit.

author: T4P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 03:27:53 pm
content: Thanks for the data there saturation!I never really bothered about such fine details but i guess i should now do so onwards from tomorrow as i do like 400-600 joints/month so i probably have to change my original 2.4D tip but definitely not worried, i solder at 300-350C and use 63/37 none of the lead-free nonsense

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 04:03:10 pm
content: you're welcome. BTW many makers have done similar technical data about soldering, its not just Hakko. But finding their data is not as easy as Hakko, via google. Weller used to have a lot of photos and technical data. Those small items are not obvious, but its worth mentioning because that's the extra you end up paying for. In the USA, a Auyoue 936 copy sells for $45-60, while a Hakko 888 is $80. Is it worth it? Beside being official an IPC qualified station, if you keep your iron below 350C, use PbSn solder, your Hakko tip could easy exceed 10,000 solder points with barely any wear. I normally power mine to 250C and work my way up, on the curve the wear will be effectively ~ 0. Really small joints, SMT etc., require much less heat if far enough from ground planes.Quote from: T4P on December 09, 2012, 03:27:53 pm

author: Twistx77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 09, 2012, 10:15:18 pm
content: Thanks!Great stuff Saturation. The problem is not always money, I got the 938D because was the one I could find, here in Spain is not that easy to get Hakko equipment at a reasonable price, at least that have been my experience. I would get one from the U.S. but here is AC is 220V and I would need a transformer which will be too much space.Anyway , I'll take you advice.Thanks again!

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2012, 04:34:44 pm
content: This has just crossed my desk. Its impressive, you get quite a lot of your $7 Hakko tips and it explains some of the alloys they use in detail. Surprisingly, Hakko never posts on the wrappers or boxes of their tips that their construction was patent pending [ > 10 years ago ] or today, that they are patented.Attached, the Hakko patents: the original tips, the newer design; and for comparsion, Weller's original tips.

author: Twistx77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 11, 2012, 07:02:47 pm
content: Great info.Thanks!