Purchasing parts and basic components for a new lab - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:13:14 pm
content: Link to my first thread about equipment:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/my-purchase-list-for-my-new-lab-budget-$1000-thoughts/Posting what components I am looking at today and could use some advice. I've included pictures in case those are easier to read (I know the text can get dense). The parts I am focusing on are more the actual pieces that are used on the board, connectors, leads, protoboards, wire, etc, things I have not yet purchased. Thought it would be easier to make a new thread since the focus is quite different.Here is what I've looked into getting so far:Resistors:30 values, 300 pieces total, 1/4W, 1% metal.Values (10 of each): 10Ω、22Ω、 47Ω、100Ω、150Ω、200Ω、220Ω、270Ω、330Ω, 470Ω、510Ω、680Ω、1KΩ、2KΩ、2.2KΩ、3.3KΩ、4.7KΩ、5.1KΩ、6.8KΩ, 10KΩ、20KΩ、47KΩ、51KΩ、68KΩ、100KΩ、220KΩ、300KΩ、470KΩ、680KΩ、1MΩValues (picture instead)https://www.ebay.com/itm/112341051881(3 packs of the above)64 values, 1280 pieces total, 1/4W, 1% metalValues (20 of each), picture:https://www.ebay.com/itm/261374861457(1 pack)Ceramic Capacitors:50 values, total 1000 piecesValues (20 of each): 1 pf (1), 2 pf (2), 3 pf (3), 4 pf (4), 5 pf (5), 6pf (6), 7pf (7), 8pf (, 9pf (9), 10pf (10), 15pf (15), 18pf (18), 20pf (20), 22pf (22), 27pf (27), 30pf (30), 33pf (33), 40pf (40), 47pf (47), 50pf (50), 56pf (56), 68pf (68), 82pf (82), 100pf (101), 120pf (121), 140pf (141), 150pf (151), 180pf (181), 220pf (221), 300pf (301), 330pf (331), 470pf (471), 560pf (561), 680pf (681), 820pf (821), 1nF (102), 1.5nf (152), 2nf (202), 2.2nf (222), 3.3nf (332), 4.7nf (472), 6.8nf (682), 10nf (103), 15nf (153), 20nf (203), 22nf (223), 33nf (333), 47nf (473), 68nf (683), 100nf (104)Values (picture instead)https://www.ebay.com/itm/122542633519(1 pack)Electrolytic Capacitors:25 values, 125 pieces totalValues (5 of each): 16V/47uF, 16V/100uF, 16V/220uF, 16V/470uF, 16V/1000uF, 25V/10uF, 25V/47uF, 25V/100uF, 25V/220uF, 25V/330uF, 25V/470u, 25V/1000uF, 25V/2200uF, 50V/1uF 50V/3.3uF, 50V/4.7uF, 50V/6.8uF, 50V/10uF, 50V/33uF, 50V/47uF, 50V/100uF, 50V/220uF, 50V/330uF, 50V/470uF, 50V/1000uFValues (picture instead):https://www.ebay.com/itm/152015420230(1 pack)Polyester/Film Capacitors:18 values, 180 pieces totalValues (10 of each): 2A471J, 2A102J, 2A152J, 2A182J, 2A222J, 2A332J, 2A472J, 2A562J, 2A682J, 2A103J, 2A153J, 2A223J, 2A333J, 2A473J, 2A563J, 2A683J, 2A104J, 2A224Jhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32857807794.html(1 pack)Diodes:14 values, 200 pieces totalValues:Rectifier Diode: 20 * 1N4001 (1A 50V), 20 * 1N4004 (1A 400V), 20 * 1N4007 (1A 1000V), 10 * RL207 (2A 1000V), 10 * 1N5404 (3A 400V), 10 * 1N5406 (3A 600V), 10 * 1N5408 (3A 1000V)Fast Recovery Diode: 10 * UF4007 (1A 1000V), 10 * FR107 (1A 1000V), 10 * FR207 (2A 1000V)Switching Diodes: 30 * 1N4148 (200mA 100V)Schottky Diodes: 10 * 1N5817 (1A 20V), 20 * 1N5819 (1A 40V), 10 * 1N5822 (3A 40V)Values (picture instead):https://www.ebay.com/itm/273315944592(1 pack)LEDs:5 colors (red yellow green blue white), 2 sizes, 150 pieces total (3V, 20mA)(Basically 15 of each)For red, yellow, green, 3mm and 5mm, it is 2V, 20mA, forward voltage 2 - 2.2V.For blue, white, 3mm and 5mm, it is 3V, 20mA, forward voltage 3 - 3.2V.https://www.ebay.com/itm/391368927437(1 pack)Transistors:15 value 600pcs Transistor TO-92 Assortment NPN PNP DIY kitPicture / Values:https://www.ebay.com/itm/222509491667(1 pack...?)Male to Male Breadboard Wires:65 pieces totalValues: Wire Length (include pin part): 24CM (4PCS), 20CM (4PCS), 16CM (8PCS), 12CM (49PCS)https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-65pcs-Male-To-Male-Breadboard-Wires-Jumper-Cable-Bread-Board-Wires/32800860317.html(3 packs...?)Protoboards:Really unsure what's good here, but I see this on Amazon:AUSTOR 36 Pieces Double Sided PCB Board Prototype Kit, 5 Sizes Universal Printed Circuit Protoboard with Free Box, for DIY Soldering and Electronic Projecthttps://www.amazon.com/AUSTOR-Prototype-Universal-Protoboard-Electronic/dp/B074X2GDH2*******************Anyway this is as far as I've gotten today in terms of researching various components... I'd really appreciate any feedback. Should I get different components on any of these? Am I missing any crucial things? Should I get additional packs of any of these? Are there other components / items I should get?I haven't even looked at things like logic chips, MOSFETS (nor do I know if the transistors I have are BJT or FET... not sure what all these different categories mean yet), wire, clamps, leads, opamps(?), zener diodes(?), other things?, etc. Any guidance or advice is much appreciated. Thanks.

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:34:18 pm
content: for the diodes you don't need from the same type different voltage ratings; just get a bunch of the highest rated 1N4007, 1N5408 a.s.o. the same goes for the schottky, and the 1N4148 is the general propose low power diode for every lab

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:37:06 pm
content: Transistors are BJT (NPN and PNP are BJTs; FETs will be N-channel or P-channel).That's a decent assortment. (Concur with HB9 on the diodes.)You're also going to have to get used to buying parts from US distributors if you're in any kind of a hurry. We have the luxury of having several good distributors who can ship parts often 1-2 days for reasonable prices, so don't go nuts trying to have every single part, even jellybean parts, on hand when you decide to start some project. Get somewhat used to buying parts for upcoming projects; anything else and your hobby will become "electronics part curator" rather than "electronics".I'd get more and different breadboard wires, specifically of the "Dupont" type.Get a mix of MM, MF, and FF.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Dupont-line-120pcs-20cm-male-to-male-male-to-female-and-female-to-female/1899750504.htmlI'd also splurge for the "good" breadboards. This isnota place to go cheap, IMO. 3M is a good brand. 3M's breadboards are actually made by Assembly Specialist, who also sell their own brand far cheaper than 3M brand.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:47:34 pm
content: Breadboards I already bought some (as opposed to protoboards which I still have not), from here:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Solderless-MB-102-MB102-Breadboard-830-Tie-Point-PCB-BreadBoard-For-Arduino/170884671651I did consider 3M ones but they were wayyyyyy more expensive than the cheapies so I balked at the time; I might get one if I find the cheapies are crap.Quote from: HB9EVI on July 24, 2018, 07:34:18 pmI'm not sure I understand, since this pack comes with a variety and includes the one you're mentioning -- or are you saying most of these diodes are useless? Is there a better pack somewhere that has the more common ones? (most of the packs I am coming across just span the same general variety). Do you usually have to buy these individually/separately?Quote from: sokoloff on July 24, 2018, 07:37:06 pmNice! I had been looking for something like this (unsuccessfully). I guess I need to get better at knowing what to search for. How many are worth picking up? 3 packs?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 07:59:05 pm
content: Start with minimum one 40-pack of each type. They're so cheap that you might get them in 10 and 20cm lengths.If you're doing a lot of module work with headers on the modules, it's worth getting an assortment of Dupont plastic headers. You can use the Dupont cables above, un-pin the single female connectors, and push the cables into multi-way female connectors. (You can do the same for males as well, but it's less common to need that.) This allows you to have more stable connections to the modules, as well as (nearly) eliminating the mis-cabling possibility.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/620Pcs-Dupont-Connector-2-54mm-Dupont-Cable-Jumper-Wire-Pin-Header-Housing-Kit-Male-Crimp-Pins/32884911697.html?

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 08:35:30 pm
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 24, 2018, 07:47:34 pmno they are not useless in that sense; for personal use it just doesn't make sense to stock 1N4001, 1N4004 and 1N4007 - just the one with the highest rating 1N4007 is enough; you can get them in bunch of 10, 20, 50 or 100. it saves to separed storage space for the different ratings; so let's say:20x 1N400720x 1N540820x 1N581920x 1N5922100x 1N4148 or 1N914the ones with lower ratings you just skipand imo don't save on at least one good breadbord; the cheap ones are a real pain.

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 08:36:26 pm
content: I can't imagine a two dollar breadboard being worth using, but maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised. The 840 point 3M breadboards can be found on ebay for under $20 and they're worth the price.For parts I usually don't buy until I need (and then I buy too many), but have you considered "arduino" starter kits?https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=arduino+starter+kithttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic-Project-Breadboard-Univ-Terminal-Strip-840-tie-points-total-3M/200668490915

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 08:40:16 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on July 24, 2018, 08:36:26 pmYes, I do own an Arduino kit already. It does come with a few basic sets of components but hardly anything to consider "staffing-a-lab"-worthy.I'll pick up two of those 3M breadboards or so -- thanks.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 08:52:33 pm
content: Quote from: HB9EVI on July 24, 2018, 08:35:30 pmThis one doesn't seem to have 1N5922 but it appears to have the rest? Or did you mean 1N5822 (which is included)?https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1N4148-1N4007-1N5819-1N5399-1N5408-1N5822-FR107-FR207-8values-100pcs-Electronic-Components-Package-Diode-Assorted-Kit/506373_32324540223.htmlSo I can get 4 of these and that should be good

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 09:16:46 pm
content: Heh, might not bother with general purpose diodes, just go for the high speed versions -- they cost about the same, and you can build SMPS projects whenever you like without buying more parts. UF400x and 540x families are numbered the same, and it might be worth having some 1N5819, MBR160, SB340, SB540 or whatever on hand for lower voltage, higher speed, higher current rectification.Regarding ceramic caps, prefer C0G for smaller values (<= 1nF), and higher voltage ratings (>= 50V) for MLCCs in higher values (> 10nF?). Avoid anything worse than Y5P or X7R (i.e., worse than +/-20%, 85 or preferably 125C). You'll probably still end up with the larger values (> 0.1uF?) having awful C(V) curves (i.e., C drops below 70% of rated value, at a fraction of rated voltage), so, eh, probably consider anything in that range to be a special purchase when and if you need it (say for the 50V SMPS you always wanted to make, that you absolutely need 1 actual uF at 50V for -- when the time comes, take the time to read datasheets carefully and find something you are sure will work).If you get ceramic discs, 50V is probably a fine voltage rating, but 500V or 1kV can be quite affordable in smaller values. Keep this in mind if you'll be working with high voltage or RF.Film caps are absolutely fine, having better tolerance and value in the mid range (1-100nF). They get large and expensive in higher values, as it's hard to make, say, a 10uF 50V capacitor (while it's quite easy to find, say, 10uF 630V caps -- they're just huge and probably more expensive than you need!). If you need big film caps, say for a precision timer, consider that a special purchase.If you'll be recapping vintage equipment, say, a stock of various values in higher voltages (250-1000V) is definitely a good idea. Doesn't hurt for power and resonant (and LF radio) experiments, either.Inductors? Eh, you can do quite a lot of circuits without. Power conversion is rather hard to do effectively without. Some radio projects can be done without, but as soon as you need passive tuning and filtering, you need them. A selection of small values (say 0.47 to 10uH, look for reasonable Imax, DCR, Q) would be handy then. Maybe just stock up on others as needed. Also consider buying or salvaging cores and winding your own -- if you don't mind the tedium of winding!Transistors: just don't get 2N2222. At best, you're paying too much. At worst, you're being lied to (or believing the lie). Legit 2N2222(A) is TO-18 metal can, period. I think most people mean "PN2222(A)" (plastic TO-92) when they say "2N..". If you ordered 2N and received PN, you at least got ripped off. 2N4401 (and PNP = '03) is better spec'd, and rated just as well. Or if you don't need the 600mA rating, 2N3904/6 (200mA) is preferable: less capacitance = more speed (without getting squirrely as RF transistors do -- not that you can get MPSH10/81s anymore, sadly).Likewise, avoid 2N3055 (metal can; plastic version MJE..). They're harder to work with, the spec is absurdly poor, you have no idea what you're actually getting, and they're often counterfeit or salvaged. If you need power transistors, better to stick to well-specified types (MJ(E)15xxx range parts, for example, which start roughly around '3055 capability and go up from there), and name brands (On Semi, Sanken..).And if you're considering a bench supply, a linear pass reg one is a good early project, but don't try and overkill it -- consider doing an SMPS for that instead. You'll hardly need to fumble with heatsinks, and you'll learn that much more.Tim

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 09:20:37 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on July 24, 2018, 09:19:11 pmA wide variety of projects in mind (I'm mostly in this to learn, experiment, tinker, etc), so not any one thing in particular.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 09:45:41 pm
content: How about these Zener diodes?https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chanzon-30-Values-300pcs-1W-3V-47V-Zener-Diode-Assorted-Kit-1Watt-Assortment-Set/27331829795010 * 1N4727A (3V)10 * 1N4728A (3.3V)10 * 1N4729A (3.6V)10 * 1N4730A (3.9V)10 * 1N4731A (4.3V)10 * 1N4732A (4.7V)10 * 1N4733A (5.1V)10 * 1N4734A (5.6V)10 * 1N4735A (6.2V)10 * 1N4736A (6.8V)10 * 1N4737A (7.5V)10 * 1N4738A (8.2V)10 * 1N4739A (9.1V)10 * 1N4740A (10V)10 * 1N4741A (11V)10 * 1N4742A (12V)10 * 1N4743A (13V)10 * 1N4744A (15V)10 * 1N4745A (16V)10 * 1N4746A (18V)10 * 1N4747A (20V)10 * 1N4748A (22V)10 * 1N4749A (24V)10 * 1N4750A (27V)10 * 1N4751A (30V)10 * 1N4752A (33V)10 * 1N4753A (36V)10 * 1N4754A (39V)10 * 1N4755A (43V)10 * 1N4756A (47V)Or these protoboards?https://www.amazon.com/AUSTOR-Prototype-Universal-Protoboard-Electronic/dp/B074X2GDH2

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 10:01:27 pm
content: It’s really a pain that you keep making more threads, since the advice you’ve already been given on these items isn’t visible to those posting now.Those are exactly the kind of protoboards I meant, and that’s a great price.I already told you how to get the 3M breadboards for a fraction of the normal price, by ordering them directly from Assembly Specialist (their actual manufacturer). You talk about not wanting to have to rebuy, and then cheap out on the ONE item where everyone unanimously agrees you shouldn’t skimp...DuPont jumpers: those are what I meant. IMHO, buy 5 sets of each kind. You can’t have enough of them as they get occupied with projects that are stuck halfway.Skip the zener assortment. Maybe pick up a 5ish-volt zener to play with and learn how they work. But you won’t reallt need them much.Resistors: I’d get one or two of the 300 piece sets, and then also order a bunch of extra 1K and 10K resistors, somehow I find I use tons more of them than other values. (And also some extra 220 and 330 ohm, since those are what you use to run LEDs off of 3.3 and 5V.)I’d also pick up some basic opamps to play with. I suggest some 741, NE5532, and either TL072 or 082.The CD4017 decade counter is also a great fun beginner chip (e.g. chasing LEDs).And of course some classic 555 timers.All those ICs, together with the resistors and caps you’ve listed, and LEDs, make for some great learning and fun.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 10:11:52 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 24, 2018, 10:01:27 pmI did look at those 3M boards on the AS site, but there so many variants and types that I got overwhelmed without knowing more and lost track of it. Unless I missed a comment somewhere, is the SS252 what you were referencing? Edit: However the shipping charges on the AS site are steep -- price is lower to get the 3M board on ebay in this case.I'll check out those other components too -- thanks741: Unsure of this one as of yet... lots of variants.NE552 I think:https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-NE5532-5532-Dual-Low-Noise-Op-Amp-IC-Texas-Brand-USA-SELLER-Free-Shipping/223015694297TL072:https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-TL072-LOW-NOISE-J-FET-DUAL-OP-AMP-IC-USA-Seller-Free-Shipping/323271252084CD4017 decade counter:https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-CD4017-4017-DECADE-COUNTER-DIVIDER-IC-TEXAS-BRAND-USA-SELLER-Free-Shipping/323161690070555 timers:https://www.ebay.com/itm/50PCS-NE555P-NE555-NE555N-DIP-8-SINGLE-BIPOLAR-TIMERS-IC-US-SHIPPING-M175/113156855492

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 10:24:29 pm
content: Zener assortment is fine, though I find I don't use many, personally. 1N52xx may be better (1/2 vs. 1W) if you'll be using them more for signal clamping than shunt regulating (less capacitance). 3.3, 5.1, 6.2, 9.0, 12 and 15V values are probably must-haves. You can always boost a smaller zener with a power transistor if you need more.Speaking of references, TL431 definitely, and LM4040 or family if you need more precision.Tim

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2018, 10:40:51 pm
content: I suggest do not get 1/4 w resistors, the leads are too thin especially using cheap boards. Somewhere on this forum there are suggestions on how to pick a good cheap board vs a bad cheap board. You have to use a mag glass and examine the "fingers". Maybe someone with a better memory will let us know. I agree with others, a cheap board will drive you nuts.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 01:48:14 am
content: Are there any good kits with 74HC/74HTC logic chips? I'm only finding the same kit everywhere and it only has one of each:https://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Types-74HC-Series-Logic-IC-Assortment-Kit-High-Speed-Si-Gate-CMOS-IC-In-As/202107524516Maybe I am better off sourcing things individually from Digikey for these...

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 01:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 24, 2018, 10:11:52 pmI wasn’t referring to any specific model. I personally find it handy to have various size breadboards, from little tiny things like the TS273, all the way to big ones like BB318. Sometimes it’s nice to have the baseplate, sometimes it’s nice to have a little bare breadboard. Just depends on the project, you know?Yes, AS’s shipping is steep, but their prices aresolow on the actual items that it’s worth it. (For example, a single 3M ACE309 is $44 on Digi-Key, vs $16 (!!) on AS for the BB309. Even with shipping it’s cheaper, but if you make a sensible order of, say, 5 or 6 various size breadboards, you’ll come out ahead even compared to eBay.I’ve only got one 3M breadboard at the moment. I keep meaning to place an order with AS to pick up when I’m in the US next... I’m tired of using the cheap ones where components easily pull out... I also found (and threw out) some among my cheap ones with such bad contacts that there were several ohms (!) contact resistance. In analog especially, stuff like that can ruin your day. But loose contacts suck regardless of what type of circuit it is.Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 24, 2018, 10:11:52 pmNE5532: FYI, should you get into audio stuff, then eventually you might consider ordering some guaranteed-genuine NE5532’s from Digi-Key. They perform better than the who-knows-where-they-came-from ones off eBay. But for experimenting, the eBay ones are fine.If you’re considering a digi-key order anyway, you might just get these jellybean ICs from them. They’re in the same price ballpark as this Thaishine vendor at quantities of 10 (but fromm digikey you can also just order just 2 or 3 to play with), and you’ll know they’re genuine.UA741:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/UA741CP/296-11107-5-ND/382197TL072:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/TL072IP/296-14997-5-ND/563039NE5532:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/SA5532AP/296-16995-5-ND/656520(The SA prefix is the extended-temperature version, the -AP means guaranteed low noise. For whatever reason these are cheaper than the regular version!)CD4017:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/CD4017BE/296-2037-5-ND/67253555:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/SE555P/296-9684-5-ND/380221(again, extended-temp version is cheaper here)Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 24, 2018, 10:11:52 pmI don’t think you need to get 50 pieces.Get a few and see from there if they’re something you want to use a lot or not. Some people find a way to put a 555 in seemigly every project, others quickly dismiss them altogether and rely on small microcontrollers. Play around and see which camp you end up gravitating towards.Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 25, 2018, 01:48:14 amI wouldn’t buy any in advance. Assuming discrete logic is even something you want to get into (cuz an Arduino can do most of this stuff cheaper and easier, so it’s purely a mental exercise) you can use digital logic simulator software to actually design and debug the logic, and then you’ll know what gates you need and can start making a parts list.I forget if someone mentioned them yet, but one other thing I’d get a few of is MOSFETs (logic-level, ideally), since they let you control bigger loads (like LED strips) from the small signals from an Arduino.For example:https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/vishay-siliconix/IRLZ14PBF/IRLZ14PBF-ND/811728(10A, very fast)https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/infineon-technologies/IRLB8748PBF/IRLB8748PBF-ND/2127672(78A, a bit slower)Again, maybe just get a few to play with and then later order as needed for projects. (Tip: though it won’t include all brands, searching for MOSFETs that begin with “IRL” is an easy way to restrict to logic-level ones. [“IR” originally stood for the vendor “international rectifier”.])Here’s a fun exercise, one straight from some projects of mine: rig up an LED strip to be PWM dimmed from an Arduino via a MOSFET. Try different MOSFET types with different specs and use your oscilloscope to see how different ones turn on and off at different speeds. (The gate capacitance of a MOSFET affects its speed and its resistance when turned on: small capacitance is fast but gives higher resistance, larger capacitance is slower but gives lower resistance. Think about, and visualize with the scope, how this affects efficiency at a given PWM rate, given that a MOSFET’s resistance is worst during the transitional period between fully-on and fully-off, so that’s when it’s going to be inefficient and give off heat.)

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 02:21:32 pm
content: Yeah, as of yesterday, finally starting to understand the DigiKey site a little better -- getting the ICs/chips there instead.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 04:24:13 pm
content: What about clips, leads, wires to actually connect components on boards, etc?e.g. stuff likehttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002KRABU/https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JJU1Y/https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JJU3C/or something else/more?

author: HB9EVI
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 06:48:47 pm
content: all of them are quite useful depending on the needs; it's good to have some

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 08:18:24 pm
content: I bought a set of those alligator type about 15 years ago. I don't remember ever using them. I find the minigrabber style much more usable. It's also good to have some minigrabber to banana plug cables.https://www.amazon.com/Pomona-5523-Minigrabber-Test-Patch/dp/B00ES4NK60/As with most things, you can find cheaper knockoffs on ebay.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 25, 2018, 09:39:11 pm
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 25, 2018, 04:24:13 pmI already answered this in my very first reply to you in your first thread. (I’d skip big alligator clips and only go for minigrabbers.) I use minigrabber to banana cables for measurements A LOT.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:08:55 am
content: If you are interested in learning digital logic there are a couple of excellent YouTube tutorial series. Ben Eater has done a lot and he always lists the necessary parts. Another very good series is by PyroElectro. His tutorials are in conjunction with an online supplier that has assembled parts kits of all the necessary logic chips and other parts. The kits can be purchased section by section, or for the whole series. There are links in the videos to the supplier The Gadgitoryhttps://gadgetory.comandhttps://youtu.be/eatP-9yNa3Y

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:45:56 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 24, 2018, 10:24:29 pmOr considering replacing them with 1.8V, 2.5V, 6V. A half-rail zener and a resistor makes for a quick and dirty reference or bias voltage. It can then be replaced later if needed but it's really pretty handy on a breadboard.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:48:59 am
content: Add some solid hookup wire, a wire stripper.Some small cheap pots - 2k, 20k, 200k linear. Solder hookup wire to them and connect the wiper to either end; use in lieu of an axial resistor.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:00:16 am
content: Most of what you've posted is fine .There are other assorted kits available including regulators ,Tantalum cap,monolithic caps and CD4000 series chips .I've not had any bad experiences with any micro chips on Ebay. Picked up a pack of 12 NE555 and they all work fine .Recently I've shifted to the TLC555 because they can go up to 2Mhz and are much more stable at the higher frequencies I've been working with.The ceramics are Ok but are really out of spec.At least my are.Some as high as 50% out. Electrolytic s I get as I need them because i find most of the kits never get used.The kits are alright but the voltages are to low for my needs.But you might do OK with them.The Thetas are are usually around -89 to - 95 which is quite good.But if your still interested some really good capacitor kits can be found herehttps://www.justradios.com/they're more expensive but are really good quality.They're not used but brand new parts with a very wide range of values .An example in price is say 200 Orange Dip Film Capacitors at 630 Volts (5 each of all 40 sizes) $69.99. You may not need such high voltages but it's an option .Or you can get which ever individual ones you need . They have resistor kits but you probably be better off with the Chinese ones .It's likely you don't want or need to many carbon composite resistors. The only problem I have with the Chinese resistor kits is I find myself having to fill the gaps in values and to many values I probably will never use.Go with the 1 watt zeners for sure as T3sl4co1l suggested.If you what to experiment with Mosfets the irf3205 is a decent one at 55V 110A and a low RDS (8mOhms). They're popular and fairly inexpensive .If I need a newer chip then I use Digikey , but most of the usual chips off Ebay are just as good. I tend to get a little abusive with chips some times and they stand up pretty well.If you need transformershttp://www.antekinc.com/has really good stuff in the toroid.Very well built products.Theirs lots of online electronic stores though out North America that are really good.And are really helpful when you have problem deciding on a component for a specific application.Anyway good luck

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:02:14 am
content: Quote from: bson on July 26, 2018, 02:48:59 amWire and strippers already discussed in this dude's first, giant thread. He idiotically decided to start a bunch new threads to discuss specifics…

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:15:59 am
content: One part that I find super handy to keep in stock is a bunch of N channel mosfets that are happy being driven from logic levels. I use BSS138, but you can find something that suits you.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:42:27 am
content: Quote from: tooki on July 26, 2018, 05:02:14 amCome on, man, you don't have to resort to insults.I made *one* thread about general lab equipment (the big thread) and one about component parts (this thread). I hardly think it's idiotic to discuss specifics or try to segment/focus discussion in a field that is so vast and chock-full of material, especially when threads start to become top-heavy.I made another thread about flux application/cleaning but again that's again a more focused topic.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:14:44 pm
content: How often do you encounter situations where 74HC logic chips are useful? Any particular ones you use a lot?

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 02:25:12 pm
content: Most everything is moving/has moved to microcontrollers now, so the discrete logic chips are there mostly as microcontroller extenders in my use case.595 (shift registers) are the only ones I've used a fair amount. Other than that, a smattering of inverters and line drivers/segment decoders.I'd stock some shift registers, maybe a few basic NAND, NOR, inverters, and plan to buy per-project on-demand anything else. The basic chips are mostly so you can teach yourself how TTL logic works. It's simple and generally robust, but there's no substitute for plugging things together and playing with it physically.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 04:28:24 pm
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 26, 2018, 05:42:27 amI'm getting annoyed because you've lost track of what info has been given to you and so re-ask in other threads, so the info is not only redundant but also fragmented.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 05:17:05 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 26, 2018, 04:28:24 pmDoesn't matter -- that's no excuse to resort to insults. I haven't "lost track" of info -- I forgot maybe one or two things buried within random posts between all these pages, videos, websites, etc that I've been poring over.And again on this site we're talking a grand total of two threads here, so it's not "other threads." It's other thread. And each one has a very different focus.If such a small thing is enough to "annoy" you then don't read or respond to the thread -- no one is forcing you to.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 09:51:20 pm
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 26, 2018, 05:17:05 pmYou have to have a thick skin to be here because some members get upset easy. Tooki has vented his anger at me also, so you are not alone. Don't let him get under your skin. Don't start a war or this will get shut down.I will add your $1000 lab thread to my List C (see below). Is there a link in that thread to this one? How about make sure that all your threads are linked together so it will be easy to move around them. I think it would be best to add them to the first posts as an edit.If you have the energy, how about putting together a spreadsheet on what you end up with.Keep up the good work.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 10:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 26, 2018, 09:51:20 pmGood idea -- added links.

author: rhb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 11:00:40 pm
content: I spent several *days* ordering infill for my passives. And a week binning them. In total I spent several hundred dollars. I've still got a large box of caps and semis to bin. Newark has really good prices if you hunt around, but it's so much work I haven't been able to muster the energy to do it again. The pricing makes no sense at all. Less than a penny to over a nickel for 5% 1/4 watt resistors in quantity 100.And all I've done so far is thru hole. I dread doing SMDs. But at least they are cheaper. Caps will really make you crazy because there are so many varieties and voltage ratings.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 26, 2018, 11:12:10 pm
content: Quote from: rhb on July 26, 2018, 11:00:40 pmWhat do you mean by binning them?Surely you don't mean measuring them all?

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 03:49:16 am
content: I wouldn't get to carried away stocking up on components.There are millions of micro chips that serve specific purposes and millions of passive components ,as you probably well know.Start with the basics.Go for well documented chips with lots of circuits to try. The LM741 op amp ,NE555 timer ,μA723 regulator.Get say 5 or 6 of each in case you burn one or two up experimenting.These will keep you plenty busy for a while,Then pick up others as you need them.Trust me ,you'll soon have a fairly extensive stock in no time.And theirs nothing wrong with salvaging parts either.It's all good.Sometimes I like to spend an evening watching TV ,pulling parts and searching data sheets to learn what they all do.It's relaxing after a rough day at work.I know it's not my place to tell you what you should do with your money.But why blow a stack of money on components you might use when you can get cool toys that you will use and need.You'll be surprised how quickly you collection will grow in a very short time.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 04:12:20 am
content: Yeah I hear you -- I'm just trying to (perhaps pre-emptively) stock up on some common parts so that I won't have to wait weeks by the time I encounter a project where I need to have a few things at hand. The components are cheap enough IMO.Any thoughts on SMD protoboards to practice SMD soldering?

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 04:59:12 am
content: I use a ton of SMD protoboards. Just cheap ones off ebay. They are great for testing out chips before you order your boards.Only problem is, is there is a huge variety. The ones I tend to use most are QFNs and SOIC . I also tend to use a bunch of 0.5mm pitch generic ones.You can just order a grab-bag of a dozen different types.I haven't used through-hole in a project for a few years now and don't miss it a bit!

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 05:23:13 am
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 27, 2018, 04:12:20 amhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/CD4017-Rotating-LED-SMD-NE555-Soldering-Practice-Board-DIY-Kit-Fanny-Skill-Training-Electronic-Suit/32812908140.htmlThe way I pick Ali stuff is sort on Orders and then pick a top seller

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 06:37:14 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on July 27, 2018, 04:59:12 amI don't see any on ebay unless you're technically referring to the adapters that translate SMD to DIP?

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 06:38:55 am
content: Yeah just the adapters. I tend to cobble together a bunch of passives on the same board. Often they are double sided with a different footprint on the other side, so you can solder on some passives there if necessary.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 09:01:40 am
content: Quote from: AnyNameWillDo on July 27, 2018, 04:12:20 amYou’re in the US. You can have common parts on your doorstep the next day from any number of legit distributors. Yes, it will cost more than getting them from Shenzhen, but you don’t have to wait 1-4 weeks for them to arrive. If you can wait 3 days, shipping is quite cheap. For a typical “weekender” hobbyist, you can have parts every weekend if you remember to order them on Sunday/Monday.It’s more important to get started than to start at maximum theoretical economic efficiency.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 09:07:10 am
content: Also, a good happy medium for some components is Tayda Electronics from Thailand. They’re not as cheap as Chinese vendors, but they also arrive in a week or less, vs 1-4 weeks for China.But I agree, as a US resident, you can get stuff fast anyway. One approach to consider might be to stagger, over the course of perhaps a year, your preemptive purchases from Digi-Key into a few orders that each exceed the 50 dollar minimum for free shipping. That way you can easily tack on the oddball components onto an order without having to artificially pad the order to the minimum.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 09:07:56 am
content: It's great to see you so enthusiastic about starting out but try and resist the temptation to buy everything you see. To give you an idea, I have been doing electronics / computing for over 30 years both as a hobby and professionally and still end up having to order parts for most projects. Even if money & space aren't a problem you just end up losing track of stuff and find yourself buying them againIt would be great to see you build some stuff and maybe post your progress. PS be wary of buying silicon from ebay, there are a lot of fake parts which won't help your learning.

author: Old Printer
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 11:47:40 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on July 26, 2018, 11:12:10 pmI believe binning is an UK term for sorting components and placing them in small compartments or drawers so it is easy to find them quickly when needed. I think most people that buy components in bulk measure/check them when used unless you buy in "grab bag" style.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 12:58:26 pm
content: Search "SMD Component Welding Practice Board" on Ebay .Theirs lots of them.I've never tried one myself and not sure what they do when finished. As for silicon from Ebay ya it's possible that some might be fake .But if you buy components from a vendor that also sells lingerie you probably want to steer clear of that one..There are lots of electronic dedicated vendors available that have very good products.

author: sokoloff
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 01:06:01 pm
content: Quote from: Old Printer on July 27, 2018, 11:47:40 amI always thought "binning" was "discarding in trash" in the UK.We use that word in our factories to mean "consolidate items together [in a plastic bin] so they can be shipped together".It's always amusing to explain to our new EU colleagues (most of whom learned British English) "OK, this product is produced and passed quality checks perfectly; now we need to bin it..."

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 01:23:06 pm
content: In modern electronics manufacturing, "binning" means sorting components by value. High-end white LEDs for lighting applications, for example, are binned (by the LED maker) by their exact white balance, so that if you are a lamp manufacturer, you can say "I need more 2900K, bin 14" to match the bin 14 LEDs you used in prior batches, to ensure the white balance isexactlythe same.Electronics manufacturers (that is, ones buying components) will sometimes bin critical components that need to be matched more precisely than the component manufacturer is willing to do. So for example they might buy transistors and then characterize them very precisely so they can create matched pairs.Of course, we don't know what rhb meant unless they come back and clarify whether they meant sorting by value or storing in bins. (I assume it's safe to assume they weren't throwing them away.)

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 02:47:51 pm
content: Quote from: Z80 on July 27, 2018, 09:07:56 amI'm assuming by "silicon" you're referring to ICs? If so then yes, I mostly plan to buy my ICs from DigiKey -- it's just too convenient and they have so many parts.The basic random components (resistors, transistors, capacitors, etc) I just got the big bags/kits from ebay (which are still on their way). If I were to ever give someone a finished product I assume I could order nicer parts from e.g. Digikey.

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 07:25:56 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 27, 2018, 09:07:10 amI have heard others here say good things about Tayda. Check out their kitshttps://www.taydaelectronics.com/electronic-kits.htmlLooks like they come with docs (rare with Ali)I think they would make good learning tools. Once you put it together you could use your new scope to trace the signals. Then you can destroy or remove components to troubleshoot. And then use your new components to make repairs.They say they use "Preformatted board " not etched. I do not know what this means ? Anyone ?

author: jpb
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 08:32:53 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 27, 2018, 07:25:56 pmI guess this means perforated board, i.e. board with a grid of holes in (perhaps with copper around each hole).Perhaps something like this:https://www.amazon.co.uk/SODIAL-6x8cm-perforated-printed-circuit/dp/B01L1PNCC0?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-ffnt-uk-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01L1PNCC0

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 27, 2018, 09:24:07 pm
content: Quote from: jpb on July 27, 2018, 08:32:53 pmI thought this also but I think perf boards are hard to work with, especially if you have to cut traces. It takes more skill than a normal board.If no answer in a few days, I will make a post on this question. Someone must have used their kits and if not I may buy one.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:38:56 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on July 27, 2018, 04:59:12 amYeah, I use the cheap stuff for that as well. Mostly SSOP, SOIC, and occasionally QFN. Just mounted an MSP430i2041 to a QFN-32 adapter though. The main problem with the cheap ones I buy is their tinning is too heavy, but the Hakko FR-300 cleans that up in a heartbeat. It can be hard to place a 0.5mm pitch package when the traces are heavily crowned; it makes parts really prone sliding off the heavy solder before I can get hot air on it (and the air doesn't help). But removing it, pasting, placing, reflow - perfect.

author: bson
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 12:42:09 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on July 27, 2018, 09:07:10 amDigiKey's $3.99 USPS flat rate shipping gets to me in 2 or 3 days. If I order just a single device it's usually because I need it right now, and $4... no brainer, I just order it.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 04:07:49 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 27, 2018, 09:24:07 pmPerfboard doesn'thavetraces. It's just pads — or no copper at all. Are you thinking of stripboard (aka Veroboard)?And what's a "normal board" to you?!? (There is no generally accepted "normal board".)

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 29, 2018, 04:17:26 pm
content: Quote from: ez24 on July 27, 2018, 07:25:56 pmFrom looking at their documentation, it's stripboard. I assume they 1. chose the wrong English word ("perfboard") for the item, then 2. misspelled it, and then 3. let spellcheck "fix" it to "preformatted board". It's just Chinglish, don't put any stock in it.E.g. comparehttps://www.taydaelectronics.com/electronic-kits/100-watt-led-power-meter-with-10-led-steps-for-home-car-or-work-k207-4384.htmlwith its documentation athttp://www.taydakits.com/instructions/100w-led-power-meter

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 04:37:30 am
content: So, don't take this the wrong way, it's just a question:Is there any particular reason you want/need to outfit your lab so extensively this way, as opposed to say an emphasis on developing good simulation skill? Not that the two ideas are opposed or mutually exclusive, because they aren't.My observation is that your focus is nearly entirely on "the basics" of available parts, which honestly modern simulators all cover just fine, and without breadboard and wiring problems. I mention this partly because of others who may read your thread with interest and be daunted at how much they "need" to buy. There is another way, so to speak.In my (extremely limited) tinkering experience, most of the devices I need to have on hand at a moment's notice come down to what is needed to interface to whatever I am actually working with, such as microcontroller dev boards. In this case I find myself needing a small assortment of basic resistors and even smaller assortment of capacitors and wires to connect various widgets to a micro. This is just one example.For most (pretty much all) of my tinkering, I use simulators to feel out the design before I order *anything*, followed by making an initial purchase of parts and passives and dev boards (including SMD breakout boards, etc) and *solder* things together. This is usually the start of a refinement cycle involving more simulation and eventually a PCB and parts order, and more soldering.I'm not saying this is superior for everyone, but it has a lot of merits, not the least of which is economic. Just something to consider.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 06:11:42 am
content: I mean, I don't disagree with you. Down the line I'll probably end up doing the same thing (using simulation to feel out a design first).Part of it is a little emotional for me. I never had the opportunity to share this hobby with my father, who passed when I was young. So, somehow I guess this is me making up for lost time? As well as minimizing expected long-term cost by not needing to upgrade as much. I just want to have a lab I can be proud of, where I can really dig in and start learning with plenty of physical resources to play around with.Yeah, it's overkill, and yeah, I could use a simulator, but I've already spent years in software while neglecting hardware altogether. It's fun to consider working with physical components for once. The initial purchasing / learning phase of any vast and deep hobby is always bumpy and awkward but it tends to take off pretty good after that if you have a strong enough base.

author: Syntax_Error
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:25:16 pm
content: Understood.With your motivations made clear, one thing you may find rewarding (surely it is in the same spirit of exploration that your father no doubt enjoyed in the hobby) is to "peruse" interesting/useful components/chips, including modern ones, and think of interesting things to do with them. It's kind of the reverse of the traditional "I want to make _____" and then choose components and circuits to fulfill that need. It is akin to playing aimlessly, and it is rife with discovery and learning. I have become inspired more than once by learning about a feature or capability that I was unaware was available.Best of luck, and happy tinkering.

author: AnyNameWillDo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 31, 2018, 05:36:57 pm
content: Quote from: Syntax_Error on July 31, 2018, 05:25:16 pmPrecisely how I am looking at it currently -- well, both ways, to some extent. Looking for interesting components and then finding interesting projects to make out of them, as well as looking up common projects and getting the parts needed. So doing it from both directions to get a sense of things. Otherwise it's tough when you're a beginner and you have no clue what capabilities are out there, as you said.