Don't forget to burn in your new Headphones~! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: N TYPE
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:55:14 pm
content: While reading reviews about various headphones on various forums, I stumbled across the practise of "Burning in" of new headphones.As you've guessed some people believe that the headphones won't sound as good out of the box and need several hours of burning in to enable the equipment to settle in.http://www.head-fi.org/t/56744/headphone-burn-in-faqWhat are your opinions? I personally think its complete bollocks, as I'm sure a lot of you will agree, however in the spirit of civilized debate I'd like to hear from those who agree with the Burn in theory. Furthermore does anybody have the equipment and willingness to conduct a controlled test?Please note Ranting and Shit posting is completely acceptable and encouraged in this thread.

author: deephaven
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:58:04 pm
content: Of course, ALL audio equipment has to be burned in - especially speaker cables

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 12:59:23 pm
content: I definately don't believe that burning in electronics (headphone amp, DAC, etc) does any good, but I'm not so sure about speakers/headphones. Remember that speakers work by moving a diaphram back and forth , and like shoes fitting to your feet, this mechanical process should in theory become easier over time. However, what leaves to be discussed is whether or not this improves the sound quality or makes it worse... or if it is even noticable to our ears.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 01:37:31 pm
content: If it's any decent make the factory should've burned them in during the initial testing already.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 01:45:46 pm
content: I put them for 5 minutes into the microwaveYeah! It's audiofoolery time!

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 01:51:27 pm
content: And mark your USB and ethernet cables so that you don't undo all of your directional burn-in if you have to remove them for some reason. (portable system, moving, etc.)Anyone remember the 500 dollar ethernet cable? One person offered a "burned in" version for an additional few hundred dollars.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 01:52:14 pm
content: I don't know, it's easy to declare it a pile of audiophool bullshit, but with moving, mechanical parts I think there may be something to it. Just like burning in a voltage reference to get past the initial drift period. Obviously I'm not saying it definitely works, but I wouldn't be so quick to say it doesn't. (Unfortunately for this theory, I quite simply don't care enough to put it to the test...)

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:19:17 pm
content: There has to be some mechanical wear'in period for newly assembled speakers/headphones.During that period the sound reproduction will be somewhat different however i just cant see it being noticeable.I think this is similar to the concept of an ant walking across a harbour bridge.Technically speaking the bridge must bend somewhat, under the weight of the ant, but no-one claims to be able to see or measure it

author: Mr Smiley
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:44:09 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on September 05, 2013, 01:52:14 pmExcellent comparisonSo, companies and audiophile people spend thousands and thousands of pounds designing, building, listening and testing speakers and headphones made from rubber, cardboard cones and bitumen, in enclosures ranging from solid granite to carbon fibre. People here dismiss them as complete idiots and sad people.But just consider, an awful lot of you sit in your brightly lit electronic workshops looking at the 9th digit of a multi thousand pound multimeter writing about how it wobbles up and down by a few numbers over a period of several months when you turn the lights on or off or the door is left open for a few minutes.There idiots for 'burning in' speakers or headphones, but you sit there for several days before you measure your voltage reference down to it's 9th decimal place because it settles down over time.And then, after your happy that your meter is accurateto 9 decimal places you check the voltage of your freshly charged AA batteriesSo who is ridiculously obsessive about what they do, when in the end it doesn't matter one iota according to both sides of the argument.People here say a speaker is a speaker they all sound the same, but 9 volts isn’t 9volts, it's actually 9.0000000001 volts. Now that's being ridiculous.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:51:46 pm
content: There is a difference. Have you seen some of the shit that audiophiles buy? A good multimeter has measurable, verifiable accuracy and precision. It's not just farting random numbers onto the screen. Maybe it's more than somebody needs, but at least itexists. But go measure a $400 handmade capacitor and try to show me what part of its "quality" is more than buyer's remorse twisted into deep denial. There's nothing in it that a $0.50 EPCOS film cap doesn't have. Or the cables. Or tubes. Or any amount of other crap.There's a difference between spending a lot of unnecessary money on your hobby, and spending a lot of unnecessary money on your delusion. I'm just saying that perhaps headphones are one specific item that isn't part of that.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:52:55 pm
content: If a mechanical device is going to change its characteristics so drastically in a very short time, it isn't designed nor built properly. The burning in belief is more just your brain adjusting to the new sound as being normal. If the suspension of an audio transducer is changing that rapidly from use it is also failing that rapidly. I have never perceived any sound change in speakers, headphones, or phono cartridges in my whole life of audio work.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:58:39 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on September 05, 2013, 02:52:55 pmThat's a really good point.I just want to add to this whole discussion that I amnota good person to discuss headphone quality. I have one requirement for headphones - they can't have any frequency bands so dead that there are entire parts of the music I can't hear. The cheap-ass crap earbuds often drop out so much at the low end that I can't even make out the bassline. That is unacceptable. Beyond that, I don't give a toss.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 02:59:30 pm
content: A speaker isn't like an engine that gets "worn in."I agree with the above poster - buying more accuracy or precision than one needs is foolish, but that's at least an order of magnitude less foolish than paying for complete BS.Having said that, I'll add that if it makes someone happy to spend 500 dollars on an ethernet cable made by nude virgins for his or her audio system then more power to them. However, if someone wants to maximize the quality of the sound per dollar spent, then they are hurting themselves, as the 500 dollar ethernet cable is no more effective than a 20 dollar one. That 480 could be much better spent.Some people like to see the effect of a gnat's fart on their battery voltage. Some people hit 20 dollar white balls with clubs that cost hundreds of dollars each only to go chasing it again. Do what you like, but understand what it is costing you.

author: madires
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 03:00:56 pm
content: I think that headphones as a mechanical system are too simple to have a wear-in phase. The wear-out starts with the first listening. Buying burnt-in headphones is like buying washed-out designer jeans :-)

author: Mr Smiley
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 03:01:32 pm
content: Quote from: c4757p on September 05, 2013, 02:51:46 pmI never said anything about capacitors or wires.Use £6,000/meter speaker cable and compare it to speaker cable made from a coat hanger, probably no difference at all.Now make a speaker our of a coke bottle and some sellotape and one out of hand crafted rubber and cone, now tell me there will be NO difference in the audio.You can't argue about one thing when comparing it to something completely different.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 03:05:00 pm
content: I forgot one more point. While admittedly a lot of audiophile stuff can be proven to make no difference, there are things that do. However, one's hearing must be able to tell this difference. My hearing isn't good enough to tell the difference above a certain level. For me to spend too much would be a waste, but for someone else, it may be justified.It's like people that think all beer tastes like piss wondering why I would spend 5 dollars pint when there are beers for 1 or 2. They can't taste any difference, but I can. However, I'd be a fool to buy a "beerophile glass" made from ultra pure silica collected from the nude beaches of some tropical paradise by virgins melted in a furnace powered by ultra filtered natural gas from the farts of nude virgins.

author: c4757p
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 03:05:51 pm
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on September 05, 2013, 02:59:30 pmQuote from: Excavatoree on September 05, 2013, 02:59:30 pmMy problem is with the shitheads who tell people with more money than sense that the $500 Ethernet cable is actually better. They are outright lying to get money; if I believed in a Hell I'd be pretty sure of their final destination. Anyone who tries to bullshit people out of their hard-earned money by taking advantage of their lack of knowledge in some specific field deserves to be publicly tarred and feathered.At least very few people are making the claim that you need an 8.5 digit DMM to check the charge on your 9V battery, and AFAIK none of the ones who believe that stand to profit from people also believing it.Quote from: Mr Smiley on September 05, 2013, 03:01:32 pmTrue - I wasn't claiming you did. I was responding to "People here say a speaker is a speaker they all sound the same, but 9 volts isn’t 9volts, it's actually 9.0000000001 volts", because really, those "people" are usually also talking about other audiophool stuff as well. That wasn't really directed at you, just prompted by you.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 05:44:55 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on September 05, 2013, 02:52:55 pmHmmmm, I better elaborate a bit on that emphatic statement. I should qualify with "during their normal life and use". Speakers can degrade over time as the surround dries or rots. Cartridges can also degrade over time if their suspensions are made of rubber or plastics which can dry out too.I have a pair of Koss HV/X headphones from the 80s that still sound as good to me today as they did back then. They have served as a reference all this time. I just recently obtained a pair of Sennheiser HD380 Pro headphones. Compared to the Koss HV/X, they sounded different at the start. Better in most aspects, but a little inferior in a few others. A comparison months later, and........ they still sound the same! I can't fool myself when I have a decades old reference, that cannot "break in" any more than they have, to compare the sound of the HD380s. It also eliminates my own changes in perception at different times.Breaking in periods for audio transducers is BS except for maybe the first few minutes they operate where say a ferrofluid is redistributed or something similar.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 06:21:44 pm
content: I don't find it at all hard to believe that the stiffness of a flexible material could change after it's been flexed a few million times - in fact, I'd be quite interested to hear a suitably well-informed, quantitative explanation as to why it couldn't or shouldn't happen.Any experts here on materials science?

author: olsenn
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 06:26:29 pm
content: In regards to headphones, the one major improvement in some (but not all) expensive models, is switching from dynamic headphone drivers to the planar magnetic type! I own a pair of HiFiMan HE-400 planar magnetic headphones and a JDS Labs branded O2 DAC+Amp, and it is a MAJOR improvement over standard headphones.

author: M0BSW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 06:50:25 pm
content: Quote from: N TYPE on September 05, 2013, 12:55:14 pmI think it's bollocks too ,their ears just got used to it, I remember back in the sixties it was gold plated wires and plugs were the had to have things pillocks, it was April fools 52 weeks of the Year.

author: jaxbird
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:21:18 pm
content: I wouldn't dismiss a detectable change in response on a pair of headphones within the first couple of days/weeks.Example, if you take a woofer, fresh out of the box, measure the Fs (free air resonance). Let's say you get a value of 150Hz. Then you hook it up with music or noise for a couple of days, then measure the Fs again, you will find it has dropped drastically, maybe 20-50Hz. This change in Fs is due to the spider and surround softening slightly. After the initial drop there will be minimal changes over the lifetime of the driver.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 07:53:49 pm
content: So you can burn them in by having them in a box with a white noise signal at close to full level applied to them for a week. That way there will be no observer bias, you just need 2 brand new pairs, one being the control and the other the test unit. Not likely to be much difference, providing both pairs are held at the same temperature for the test duration.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 08:30:53 pm
content: I think you will find that any change in speaker surrounds is not permanent and they will stiffen up again after sitting for a bit. You can be sure that the manufacturer's specs are not from fresh off the factory floor but run for a few minutes first. That is IF there is any change on the material properties. It will also relate to the temperature changing on the voice coil and moving its impedance curve too.

author: pickle9000
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 09:01:16 pm
content: Maybe it's just me but to me "burn in" refers to initial testing or testing after a repair. And "warm up" or "normalize" is something that is done to allow the system to reach operating temp and work within it's specs. Certainly some amplifiers require warming up to operate within spec but I have no idea on headphones. I do suspect that they have a designed operating temperature and outside of that they may not operate as intended. Not burn in though.

author: krivx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2013, 09:45:39 pm
content: I know there are manufacturers of guitar speakers that offer "burnt-in" models alongside factory fresh models, at a slight premium. I believe they just play noise through them at high power for hours/days.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 12:59:56 pm
content: Quote from: AcHmed99 on September 06, 2013, 12:41:08 pmNon-audiofool stuff - hey, this has been taken from the box and used a bit. I want a discount.Audiofool stuff - how much extra do you charge to take it out of the box and use it a bit?

author: smashedProton
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 07:14:39 pm
content: There is an element of truth to this. Subwoofers do require a break in period to loosen the spider and the surround. That makes the bass more punchy. These people are probably driving their headphones really hard to make the bass stand out a little more.

author: hans
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 10:19:12 pm
content: I have been shopping for a new headset lately, and most of the very expensive headsets boast "great bass", where people repeat over and over again they should be worn in. Others complain that the bass of these headsets is too prominent, as they are targeted for DJ's and whatnot.I usually buy budget headsets of ~40$ , and never noticed anything (however, don't expect to notice anything change too) changing. But maybe I am not turning up the volume to extraordinary heights to make "wear in" neither. The only 'wear in' my latest headset requires is some stretching over some college books over night, as it sits too small (or my head is too big).Nevertheless, I think the perception of audio quality can be very subjective. For example, I hardly notice any difference between MP3 320kbps and FLAC, maybe only between my ears that the FLAC variant sounds richer.

author: David_AVD
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 10:35:16 pm
content: I've personally not found that headphones need "burning in". I think it's often a case of becoming accustomed to the new response of your headphones (or speakers).Like the pair of cheaper Logitech speakers I bought for my home PC. At first I hated them with a passion as they sounded bad compared to my (more expensive and older) Altec Lansing ones at work. I still use the Logitech ones as I've gotten used to them and the AL ones still sound better, but a lot of the hate for the Logitech ones has subsided. Go figure!I wouldn't expect too high a performance from a $40 set of headphones either. The ones I use at home are a nice pair of (semi-open style) AKG that cost around $200 some years ago. Mind you, I tried other models around the price range but they didn't pleasemy earsas much.So, my (rambling) suggestion is that most audio gear doesn't need "burning in" - your ears just need to get used to it.

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 10:39:06 pm
content: Here is 10 hours worth of good "burning" material:http://youtu.be/kxopViU98Xoha ha ha ha.

author: beaker353
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 11:31:15 pm
content: It very common in the professional sound industry (my day job) to burn in speakers for a decent length of time prior to first use. However, the reason is not to break them in, but rather to find any weak components before you trust them to a live situation. I've personally witnessed weak glue jobs and misaligned coils that did not show up until the speaker was run at full show level for a few hours. A speaker dying during a show can impact the quality of the show dramatically and be very costly to replace in a hurry. Finding those problems in the shop is a much better way to go. I've left sets of arena size speakers running just below their rated max power overnight. Come in the next morning and see which ones didn't survive the torture test. Thankfully most sound companies work in industrial areas so people around are not too annoyed at pink noise coming out at 120dB-SPL.-EM

author: bookaboo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2013, 11:47:59 pm
content: Never mind burning them in, here's my tip for headphones:When you make your cup of tea/coffee, place it on the desk and while it's cooling that little bit put your headphones on it.Doesn't do anything for sound or tea/coffee but warms your ears just perfect.

author: qpit3a
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 12:23:11 am
content: If burning in means changing their compliance for instance (I think that is the term) then I don't want them as that would have been a parameter used in the design - particularly for speakers - and so they would be out of spec and so the design equations would no longer hold.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 12:33:15 am
content: Quote from: beaker353 on September 06, 2013, 11:31:15 pmI'm not an audio professional, or an audio engineer, but I'd consider that just a "good test," to weed out bad components, not a "burning in."

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 01:15:03 am
content: Small speakers use a very thin amount of material to attach the cone to the base, they're not a scaled down version of a bigger speaker.The surround/spider thickness can be much less than a scaled-down larger speaker because material strength doesn't scale.Therefor the effect of non-burnt-in headphones should be very very small compared to a woofer.I just can't see the burn-in effect being perceivable for tiny headphones speakers.When i bought my current pair of high quality headphones (Sennheiser PC360) they sounded awesome++ straight out of the box.

author: Galaxyrise
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 07:53:23 am
content: Quote from: Excavatoree on September 07, 2013, 12:33:15 amActually, I believe stressing to find failures is thenormal usage of burn-in. I think "age" or "break-in" are better for the process of getting past an initial period of reduced performance.

author: Excavatoree
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2013, 01:13:40 pm
content: Quote from: Galaxyrise on September 07, 2013, 07:53:23 amThanks for setting me straight.