Motherboard RGB header smoked using RGB strip. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / repair

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 05:26:25 am
content: I hope I am posting in the correct forum here.Well, let me get the hardware out of the way.Gigabyte B450 Aorus I Wifi ProAmazon Chinese RGB (non-addressable) light stripLink:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076VG955L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1What I am doing is cutting up the strips to fit my case. I’m soldering the sections together with 22AWG wire, and I’m not using any plastic connectors.The first strip I built I plugged into the RGB header of my motherboard and the strip was not colored correctly, having trouble with the green circuit ( I found that if two specific leds are on and won’t change color, it’s a green circuit problem). The strip started getting hot and then I smelled that awesome smell of burning electronics. The smell that makes you think, “Ohhh nice, I just smoked 1200.00 of computer parts I just bought and built! PARTY ON!”Long story short, I want to understand how this could have happened so I’m trying to figure out how the LED strips are wired, and I simply cannot do it with a continuity option. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.It may be coincidence, but I plugged the same strip into am external controller box and the controller stopped working too. It could be that the motherboard smoked the strip and itself then the strip smoked the external RGB controller. Or, the strip was bad and smoked both of them. Or, a total coincidence between the strip, motherboard, and controller where the MB and controller smoked themselves, and so did the strip.But the order was like this: Plug in custom soldered strip to RGB header, RGB strip lights up incorrectly. Check solder joints and reattach to MB RGB header. RGB header smokes (Didn't know it at that time). Create another custom strip from scratch, plug it in, and it works great for two days. Plug in another piece of the same strip that I made (just a 12" piece with no solder joints), and the colors go off again. That's when I started looking at things on the MB and found the smoked RGB header caps, or whatever they are. So, I plugged in the simple 12" strip to the external controller and it worked fine. Plugged in the custom soldered strip, and the controller stopped working after that. That's when I got my multi-meter out.I have a lot of question. I’m sorry about that. I just want to understand so it doesn’t happen again! Motherboards are expensive and I had no idea a bad strip could smoke an RGB circuit on a motherboard.Well, I got my magnifying glass out and sure enough, the caps next to the RGB header were smoked. (I think they are caps. They are square boxes right next to each pin on the riser 12+GRB.I’ll post some pictures then ask my questions:This is the MB riser:-Videos may take a bit to load. Thank Microbrains for that. They are linked to the "share" function of OneDrive, which I despise.This is a video of the bad strip:https://1drv.ms/v/s!AqQihxjVvPuLhdsknab_EyctprcFMAThis is a video of the same strip but a section that came off of the reel that I never used:https://1drv.ms/v/s!AqQihxjVvPuLhdsjsz1cN0Hnasq85AFirst, can a bad 12V strip actually short out the motherboard RGB circuit and cause those little black boxes to melt and fuse to each other?Second, what would have to happen inside of a strip in order for that to happen?What’s up with the logic of how these LEDS are wired to the strip? I tested a new strip and they are somewhat the same. Sometimes I can get the 12V power leads on the 5050 containers to beep, and sometimes not. Sometimes the LEDS in the 5050s will light up with the continuity positive side on the 12V pad and the common n the RGB side. Sometimes touching the 12V pad and the 12V anode causes one of the adjacent LEDs to light up.Thanks.

author: martin1454
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 05:42:04 am
content: If you look up onhttps://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B450-I-AORUS-PRO-WIFI-rev-10#kfit saysQuoteSo the issue is that you used a 12V LED strip on a 5V board -What is dead? Don't know, could look like some diodes (non-LED)

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 07, 2020, 05:51:58 am
content: Quote from: martin1454 on July 07, 2020, 05:42:04 amI edited the original post to now include images and correct links to the videos.Naw, Gigabyte is just stupid when it comes to listing specs like that. The motherboard, as all MB's, have 12v RGB and 5v ARGB headers. Usually the RGB is the CPU header, and I assume that is because before ARGB lights, everything was RGB and 12V, and all of the factory CPU cooler LEDS are 12V. Anyway, you can't plug a 5V ARGB into a 12V ARGB because the plugs are closed on the 5V. There are three pins on the 5V and the second pin over on the connector is closed.OK, so what is dead is the RGB circuit on the MB. They will still make the lights on the trip come on, but certain colors won't display. For instance, selecting Green causes the strip to go off, which is because the green circuit was the first to give me problems. Check out the videos. They will explain a lot.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 05:02:00 am
content: those fried elements on the board are small fets (transistors), they sure as hell dont look like something able to power 300 ledsMy guess is you connected long strip, there is no power measurements/safety trip/fuses and it worked until those transistors cooked themselves>ORUS Gaming Motherboards will support either 5v digital LED lighting strips and up to 300 LED lights. RGB Fusion 2.0 with Digital LEDs comes with 9 new patterns and various speed settings with more to come.this makes sense, "digital LED" means motherboard is only able to drive another controller, not drive LEDs directlyfirst video clip - all is fine, those leds are wired 3 in series. Single leds are ~3V, 3x in series = ~10V, remaining 2V is dropped by resistorssecond vid - I think you meant you found a break in the strip when moving, looks mechanical, probably solder cracked under one led/resistor

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 05:12:52 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 08, 2020, 05:02:00 amNope, they won't power 300 5050 chips. They will power 2 Amps worth of them. I calculated how many that was so as not to exceed the total amps the riser can provide. However, I only plugged in a total of 36 of the 5050 chips. I just needed about 2.5 feet. I did not connect the entire strip, ever, due to knowing the riser was only 2 Amps. Each 5050 chip at maximum (full brightness and on white) will consume .21 watts. I don't have my numbers in front of me becasue they were on my now RMA'ed MB rigs' hard drive. But I did the calculations as to not even com,e close to max amps for the riser (per the strip manufacturer numbers and looking online about how many watts/amps the 5050 chips consume).As I posted above, that 5V only is not correct. It supports 5v DLED and RGB nonaddresable at 12V.From the manual:Yeah that's what I meant about the break. So, how could the strip cause the RGB fets to fry like that?I know that if you plug in a 5050 light strip and go over the amps the power converter can provide, all you get is low voltage and the lights get dim and then at some point you have no power and that section of the strip is just off.Thanks a lot for posting.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 08, 2020, 08:53:25 pm
content: As to faults.Either the motherboard was faulty, and you always met all its specifications/requirementsOr, the total Led units x current per unit x max colours on at same time, overloaded it.Or, the Led chains you connected were/are faulty, and used too much current.E.g. Current limiting resistor(s), wrong value (too low), or current limit resistor(s) shorted out or other RGB chain faults, such as mis-wiring etc. So that it exceeded the 2 amps limit, overloaded the motherboard and caused the drivers to over-heat and burn out.I would presume, there isn't any current limiting/protection on the motherboard, for the RGB chains.Because of the parallel connection nature of the Led chain(s), it would just take one section to be faulty, to overload the motherboard.Were all the colours lighting up as expected initially, or did one or more colours fail or be dim, right at the beginning ?If so, then the motherboard output drivers (probably fets/transistors), would/could over-heat and break.Quote from: DW1961 on July 08, 2020, 05:12:52 pmAlso, somewhere I think you said it was 36 Leds, you connected up/used (maximally).0.21 Watts per Led, means something like (taking a 2.5V ballpark Led voltage drop), the current = 0.21 / 2.5 = 0.084 amps. (84 milliamps)So current would be 36 (Led quantity) x current per 5050 Led (White, all 3 elements on) = 36 x 0.084 = 3.024 Amps!So, if the 0.21 Watt figure is correct, and my estimate of 2.5V average per Led is approx correct, you would have used around 3 Amps on something rated for 2 amps. Which could explain how/why the RGB output(s) burnt out.Because Fets (assuming they are Fet output drivers) don't like being overloaded, and would fail (over-heat and hence 'burn out'), somewhat quickly.If it was me, I'd not want to go anywhere near that 2 Amp limit, on the motherboard. So, even 1.99 Amps, is probably pushing it (opinion dependent). Because of the danger/risk of damaging/destroying the motherboard RGB output connection and/or significantly shortening the life expectancy of the output drivers.EDIT:I might have slipped up. I should have said 36 'Chains/sets' of 3 Leds, so 36 x 3 Leds in total. As the current goes through 3 Leds in total, plus the current limiting resistors (this is confusing).So, 36 Leds would be around 1 Amp, but 36 sets of 3 Leds (3 x 36), would be around 3 Amps.I think you said somewhere about 2.5 Feet of Leds, but I'm not sure how many Leds that would be, altogether.EDIT2:Earlier in this thread, you do say 36 Leds. But don't forget the current limiting resistors, will also dissipate (consume) power. So 36 x 0.21 Watts, would be missing those current limiting resistors out, and hence lead to misleadingly low power consumption figures.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 01:22:09 am
content: From the seller:"Each 5050 lamp bead is 0.2W, current is 60MA, voltage is 3.1V-3.4VLamp beads quantity * Each lamp bead Wattage= Total Wattage;current * voltage = Total Wattage"I also checked to make sure I knew what the entire strip's amperage was, and it is 5 Amps. It's 16.4 feet, so roughly 8' would be 2.5 amps. I also broke it down into amps per 5050 chip. There are 300 5050 chips on the strip, and the strip is approximately 5 Amps, so .016 Amps per 5050 chip (and resisters, etc.). Interestingly, the resister must not increase amps much because 300 5050 chips = exactly 5 amps--what the strip is rated at.Here are the strips specifications from the Amazon page:Specifications:LED Type: SMD 5050Light Color: RGB (Red/Green/Blue)PCB color: BlackLength: 500cm/16.4FtWidth: 1cmHeight: 0.3cmLuminous Flux: 6-7LM/per LEDLED Quantity: 300 LEDs Per 5 Meter or 60 LEDs Per MeterWorking Current: 5A <-----------------------------------------------------------------//Working Input Voltage: DC 12V <---------------------------------------------------//Next, I wanted to know what each 5050 chip power raw was, so I checked numerous sites for that information, and always came up with the same thing:Specifications: minimum 3 diode per chipDimension /size: 5.0mm x 5.0mm(Power consumption Wattage: : 0.21 W (3 diode 0.7mW)Rated current, mA : 60Nominal luminous flux Lumen: 15 — 18Voltage: 3.4 – 3.4 voltshttps://somanytech.com/what-is-smd-led-what-is-led-5050-5630-2835/So to answer your question, each diode on the chip is .7mW*3=.21w. At least that's how I am understanding it. But, yes, when they say 5 Amps for the entire strip, then I just calculated 5Amps/300 5050 chips = .21 each.I was using 33 or 36 can't remember, but I know I could use easily 6 feet of the strip, since 6' is 1/3 the total length, or .3*5Amps=1.5 Amps.I cut a 6' strip off and plugged it in and it lite up, all lights. The problem happened after I chopped it up and soldered it back together, but I did a few test runs with shorter strips, and had no problem.Then I built the strip, and plugged it in, and two lights came on, one more powerful than the other.SO I did my research and it said that the green cathode side was probably bridged with the 12+ side turning it on and preventing it from changing colors. I tested it and could not find any problems, so I started cutting the strip off at each soldered connection. I finally go to a point that they came on all one color, which I had as red. Then the strip got really hot and that's when I smelled the fets burning. I didn't now that at the time though. So, I just chucked the strip I built and started over. I installed the new strip and had no problem for a few days then the green channel went out, and the colors were not indicative of what I was choosing. That's when I got suspicious and checked the motherboard. I had a controller and I plugged the new, custom strip into that and it fried the controller, or maybe the controller just stopped working, who knows. That's when I started my journey and bought a DMM."I would presume, there isn't any current limiting/protection on the motherboard, for the RGB chains."I was hoping they would have that installed. I read somewhere they started doing it for their fan headers because people were burning them out left and right as more novices were finding the fan risers and attaching 10 fans to them. So now what you get when you overload a fan riser is low voltage, and that's it. At least I read that somewhere. I don't know if it is true. You would think to prevent people from burning stuff like that out they would include limiters.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 01:43:25 am
content: Pretty bummed out about it. I've been building my rig for months now and hav a lot of work in painting fan carriages, LED covers, creating custom top grills, custom wiring, painting screws (it's a white theme build), and so on. The finishing touch was an internal glowing acrylic insert that I am fixing LED to so that it glows on the RGB circuit.Here are a couple of images of it's early incantation. It has no top custom grill lights nor any 12V lighting at all. All glass panels are off.Cabling for the 24 pin ATX. I'm going to take that cable off and buy another 90 degree ATX adapter and just have it go right back down into the case, so you see no wires at all.-The case fans are all Noctua 140 Redux models, that only come in grey and are not LED fans. I spent a lot of time painting and sanding and repainting the outside carriages, and then some Phanteks LED covers went over the top. I had to primer, sand, and paint those too, after disassembling all of them first.The video was just to let another computer modder to see what I had at the time to comment on what I was going to do next. I also have an old 7950 nonLED vid card in there, but the AMD 580 LED card with aluminum backing plate is in my closet now (nice friend let me have it).Link:

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 01:54:23 am
content: Well I have to take my hat off, and say it is looking very neat, already.The first picture, seems to look more like a well oiled and very modern/sleek looking car engine (and I mean that, fully as a complement!), and the video makes it look like something which wouldn't look out of place, on the set of the Dr Who's, Tardis.Yes, in an ideal world, the motherboard would indeed, current/power etc, protect the RGB output drivers (and maybe it does, I don't know). But, there are lots of components and functions, these modern motherboards have.So, it would probably add a fair bit (too much), to the parts cost of the motherboard, to give it over current protection on the RGB connector(s).But, they may have found a cheap way of doing it, or gone in that direction.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 04:12:24 am
content: Quote from: MK14 on July 09, 2020, 01:54:23 amabout $1, cant have that in $150-300 product!Maybe in related news CEO of MSI, Charles Chiang, did a Monty Python and jumped out the window of their headquarters yesterday. Business must be bad.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 04:32:10 am
content: Thanks a lot. I take care of my 91 year old mother, so my time to spend on projects like this is limited to an hour a day at most.Where the zebra 24 pin ATX goes back into the case, the white case backing is going to be covered in 1/8 white plexi, cut to outline the wire holes. Then I am going to run a strip down the outside of it using a 10mm side plexi piece glued onto the main plexi so the "cover panel" gets lit up from the side outward. That will be part of the 12V RGB side. I am cutting the template now. However, until I know what Gigabyte decides to do with my MB, I'm waiting.Other things not seen in the light only version above is custom aluminum octagon top insert that covers the radiator in the top, for which a glass panel goes over it. I also primed and painted that white. Then the back has all of the screws painted white and or covered with plastic snap covers. The other side of the case where the camera doesn't go was--until the motherboard's RGB fried--lit up the case's exhaust outlets in both the main compartment and the wiring / PSU compartment. It also was lighting up the top radiator area, where is it dark in the vid and pics above, showcasing the custom octagon big hole cover. So, that's why I need to solder the strips. Part of them are pointing downwards, and part of them are pointing inwards towards the radiator--the two section in the back and front are pointing into the top radiator area. I need the section to twist in opposite directions.Also not in the vid 'cause I hadn't done that yet either is the hole and grommet I drilled in the bottom of the case to use a strip underneath pointing down to make the outside perimeter of the bottom of the case glow (also RGB circuit.)Anyway, I'm super paranoid about doing this now. The only way to do this right is to solder. I watched a ton of "how to solder strips, and followed the directions for soldering to a T. I never left the soldering iron on the pads more than just enough to melt the 60/40 at about 320-40C soldering temp.I was just thinking if I cut this new strip up that I have to create another custom strip, how could I test it for amps before plugging it back into my MB? I could plug it into an external 12V controller and insert the DMM as a circuit, but if the custom made strip is somehow shorted or has screwed up a resistor, the controller would just smoke. You would think they would put protection in those. I think they do put those in the 120AC/12VDC converters. But unless it was coincidence, that strip smoked a controller too.Is there a way I can hook the strips directly to the 12V power supply? That way I can do am amp test--unless there is a better way to check if the strip is ok?

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 04:41:31 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 09, 2020, 04:12:24 amIf it is really only 1 dollar, I'll bet they have it. Are you serious? Just looked up the story. Wow. He jump out of the windows and killed himself. MF-er, Grisly.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 06:09:02 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 04:41:31 amthat $1 translates to $20 million per year. Everything is build to a price, and new features are mostly gimmicks.why would you even plug something like a led strip directly to a motherboard when external controller is what, $10? and that price includes >10A supply and remote. You can build wifi one using $3 8266 module and $0.5 transistors (which coincidentally are >10x more powerful than the ones on yourMSIGigabyte motherboard)https://www.instructables.com/id/WiFi-LED-Light-Strip-Controller/or just a custom wifi remotehttps://www.instructables.com/id/WiFi-LED-Strip-Controller-Based-on-ESP-8266/

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 07:55:36 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 09, 2020, 06:09:02 amBecause then I'd have to somehow run a 120AC to 12V DC converter and power supply into the case? Also, I wanted the LED controls to be compatible with each other using the same Gigabyte Fusion software. You know, set it, forget it, and when the computer shuts off, lights shut off, and when the computer starts, the lights start? But one other reason I plugged in an LED strip to the motherboard is because that's what it's there for.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 08:15:33 am
content: Sorry, I didnt mean you personally, but a general consumer 'you'.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:39:04 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 04:32:10 amYes there is. Very rough method, follows.The 12V molex connectors (assuming your computer still supports them), along with a suitably sized resistor (or old filament type bulb), to limit the current, in case of short circuits or attempts to use way too much current (which could blow up the fuse, if present, in your multimeter (10 or 20 Amp range, hopefully ?, to minimise risk of blowing any fuses it may have), you use to check the current.E.g. A cheap, 12 or 24 watt (other watt values can be fine as well), automotive (car), filament bulb (not led), which you connect between the 12V+, and where the led RGB strings, expect the +12V to go.Because it can take the wattage without burning out (a too small resistor can't), they are very cheap (<$1, I guess, you may even have some lying around), and they light up when too much current is flowing into them.If it was a dead (complete) short-circuit, you would be limited to a max of 2 amps (e.g. 24 watt bulb), once the bulb has warmed up (you can get a big initial surge current with bulbs, for around <1 second, as they heat up).You can then check each of the three (RGB) channels, and see how much current they want to draw (partly limited by the bulb or resistor).The ideal way, would be a bench power supply, on current limit mode, but you don't seem to have access to (or need) one.

author: MK14
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 09:45:41 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 09, 2020, 04:12:24 amIf they decide to spend an extra $1, on that motherboard, there would be various choices...More/better USB3 ports.OrAnother network port, and upgrade it to an Intel one.OrMore/better Sata ports or M2 ones.OrFully protect the RGB port(s).They need to spend that $1, on something which will boost the perceived value and hence sales of the motherboard.Which more/better port(s), does.But, making the RGB Led port better protected, probably wouldn't interest many people. In fact I bet many people wouldn't even use the RGB port(s), let alone care or even know what current limiting means.Also, in practice an extra $1 component cost, may make the product cost $5+ more, at retail. Because of various add on percentages, such as taxes, retailer markup, manufacture's profit %, etc etc.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 07:15:39 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 09, 2020, 08:15:33 amNo worries. I didn't take it personally, but found the question odd. There are some options I will do next time to protect the MB, see below my response to MK.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 07:16:43 pm
content: Oh the RGB strip strikes again!Bloody things just blow up because it's Tuesday. Best to eviscerate the things and live in the dark.https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/g0420s/pc_build_does_not_go_as_planned/

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pm
content: So, IF I ever get my RMA'ed board back from Gigabyte--received two days ago and still says they are waiting on it--what I will do is the same thing I did with the DLED riser.So, it seems that ASROCK and Gigabyte have this annoying wiring that allows power to bleed back through the DLED 12v+ pin from the motherboard AFTER IT IS TURNED OFF!. I know this because of first hand experience, and after contacting Phanteks, the confirmed it.Since my DLED riser was getting close to max at 2 Amps, with my water block and radiator DLED fans attached, and I needed more power for my case fan LEDs, I decided to go with a DLED SATA powered hub.The fist one I tried was the Pahnteks model. So, this is how it works:Panteks plugged into SATA 5V rail of PSU.DLED plug fromthe MB plugs into the Phanteks DLED SATA powered HUB (not controller).When the computer is off, either the power supply fan will turn slowly (low voltage since it is 12V and the DLED is 5V) or one or two of the fans connected to the fan hub controller and powered by the SATA 5V rail will spin, again, very slowly due to low voltage).This means when the computer is off, somehow Gigabyte allows power to run BACK through the DLED 12+V pin, and that feeds back to the Phanteks (or any) DLED hub and then from there, feeds back through the SATA connection, and then from there, energizes the SATA 5V rail, and anything plugged into the SATA 5V rail gets low voltage.(We never could figure out how the power was getting to the PSU fan, since it is 12V)Anyway, I contacted Phanteks, and they confirmed that the phenomenon I was experiencing was indeed something that will happen using Gigabyte boards, or ASROCK, and why they said the hub was only compatible with MSI and ASUS.The way I had it plugged in, since I needed more than two amps, was that I had a Y cable coming off of the DLED riser. One side went to the water block and radiator fans, and one side I plugged into the DLED hub, which is powered by the SATA 5v rail of the PSU. At the time, I didn't know if the hub allowed power to come from the riser, and then just add that power to the 5V of the SATA, or if it blocked power from the DLED riser.So I bought a Chinese DLED hub from Amazon, and plugged it in and the same thing was going on.I thought about it al little and decided the only way power is getting from the motherboard back to the SATA rail HAS to be through the hub and that meant the hubs--both the Chinese model and Phanteks--are combining the power.To solve this problem, I cut the 12v+ wire on teh extension cable that feeds power from the DLED riser on the motherboard, effectively stopping any power from going through one side of the Y splitter. Remember the other side still has power from the DLED riser to power the waterblock and rad fan LEDs.So I plugged it all back in and success! No more power feedback, and the only power the LEDs from the hub were getting was from the SATA 5V rail of the PSU. The only connection to the hub was the DLED data wire and the ground wire--I just left the ground wire just in case.So now I have one section of my DLED lights powered by the MB and one section powered by ONLY the SATA power.The reason I shared this is becasue I'm wondering if I can do the same thing with the RGB aspect of lighting. I'll just cut the 12+V wire coming from the motherboard RGB extension cable, buy an RGB hub, and use the hub and SATA 5V rail to power the RGB lights. That would allow the PSU to deal with over voltages and stuff like that, which they are capable of doing.However, DLED has a "data" wire, but I'm not sure how RGB works. If I cut the power cable coming from the MB, how will the signal to change colors get there?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 02:46:02 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmuser error, in central EU this would be declined. in US will depend on the retailer and how much they value customers to eat the cost of new motherboardQuote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmIts not motherboard "allowing" bleed back, its user plugging in somethingnot allowedwhich pushes power backGigabyte doesnt support plugging anything BUT the ARGB leds into their DLED sockets."LEDs in Sleep, Hibernation, and Soft Off StatesAllows you to set the lighting mode of the motherboard LEDs in system S3/S4/S5 state.This feature is supported only with a 5V digital LED strip.Off Disables the selected lighting mode when the system enters S3/S4/S5 state. (Default)On Enables the selected lighting mode when the system enters S3/S4/S5 state."= DLED 5V is sourced from ATX Standby to allow LED lighting working while computer is offQuote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmno surprise there, they seem to be selling fluff led gadgets - "hub" being a $20 plastic box with a set of connectors andno active componentslike thishttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000095545686.htmlproper wiring, or $0.1 diode was out of their budged so its back to the old blame it on the others tactic, nothing wrong with our product no sir :-)Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmYou are EXTREMELY lucky you didnt set DLED_V_SW1/DLED_V_SW2 to 12V, that would result in even more smoke, this time from SSD/HDD and power supply.Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmgoodand again: its not 12V+, its whatever you set with DLED_V_SW1/DLED_V_SW2. 12V would be spectacular for a second.Quote from: DW1961 on July 09, 2020, 07:39:21 pmYou seem to be learning quicklyYou cant do the same thick because LED_CPU/LED_C RGB connectors are for directly "low-side switching" "common anode" LEDs. First the directly/indirectly switching part:Indirectly = ARGB are addressable leds, that means you send digital signal and they take care of interpreting it and switching power internally. They have build-in mini decoder and transistors inside the package.Adafruit tutorial covering WS2811 (they call them neopixels)https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neopixel-uberguideThese are great because all you need to drive them are direct digital control signals, no expensive power transistors requierd.Directly = transistors are on the motherboard, what you get on the connector is raw power and not the control signals.project I linked earlier shows how you control analog RGB led stripshttps://www.instructables.com/id/WiFi-LED-Light-Strip-Controller/you have to manually modulate power to separate color strands using somewhat beefy transistors.Low-side switching means you are not PWM modulating the +12V. Instead you are controlling the Ground connection using N-channel MOSFEThttps://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_7.html"common anode" means all the LEDs have their + power wired together.https://www.hackster.io/techmirtz/using-common-cathode-and-common-anode-rgb-led-with-arduino-7f3aa9The last part means No, rewiring +12V from motherboard to the power supply wont solve anything because thats not the bottleneck. Bottleneck is tiny, cheap mosfet transistors on the motherboard. What you could do is either buffer analog signals with bigger transistors, or drive them using ARGB decoder likehttps://www.adafruit.com/product/1378Im sure someone in china makes a $10 product letting you drive basic RGB strip from ARGB signal.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 10, 2020, 02:46:02 amHey thanks for all of the comments. I really appreciate it. Very helpful. See below for my replies."user error, in central EU this would be declined. in US will depend on the retailer and how much they value customers to eat the cost of new motherboard"How did you come to the conclusion it was user error? It could have just been bad transistors on the MB? Also, the retailer is Amazon and has absolutely zero to do with the RMA back to Gigabyte. I just wish GB would either fix my board or tell me to kick rocks so I can get on with it."Its not motherboard "allowing" bleed back, its user plugging in somethingnot allowedwhich pushes power backGigabyte doesnt support plugging anything BUT the ARGB leds into their DLED sockets."LEDs in Sleep, Hibernation, and Soft Off StatesAllows you to set the lighting mode of the motherboard LEDs in system S3/S4/S5 state.This feature is supported only with a 5V digital LED strip.Off Disables the selected lighting mode when the system enters S3/S4/S5 state. (Default)On Enables the selected lighting mode when the system enters S3/S4/S5 state."I contacted Giagbyte and explained what I was doing, and they never said I could not plug an SATA hub into the DLED when I contacted them, and they never suggested I stop doing it. Gigabyte tech said to make sure the S states are off, which is default, which it was. I explained exactly what I was doing like I did above, and they never once said it should not or would not work. They finally said it was "strange" and they would look into it. Incidentally, ASUS and MSI have not that limitation. Also, it doesn't say anywhere not to use DLED powered hubs. I mean, yeah, what you are saying makes logical sense, but Gigabyte never said anything about it and it's not in the manual."proper wiring, or $0.1 diode was out of their budged so its back to the old blame it on the others tactic, nothing wrong with our product no sir :-)"Well, they didn't deny it was their hub not working. They were really forthright about it. They just said it doesn't work with ASUS/ASROCK for that very reason (Phanteks tech actually said there are other strange things that can happen too, but didn't go into it.).Actually, they don't even need a .1 diode. They could have just blanked the power connection going into the hub itself, and been perfectly compatible with Gig and ASR boards, and just adding in the manual that power was limited to the SATA power and that the power states options would not work with DLEDs plugged into the controller. I actually told the tech how I got it to work, and he said that was interesting that I got it to work doing only what I did, and that he'd pass that on to the electrical engineer."DLED 5V is sourced from ATX Standby to allow LED lighting working while computer is off"Yes, we figured that out, and by "we" I mean John Gerow over at Johnny Guru who is also Corsair's marketing manger for Corsair PSU. He said the motherboard should stop that no matter what is plugged in."You seem to be learning quickly"Necessity is a good motivator--lol. I wish it would just Fing work, you know? I don't want to be an electronics person, although I am learning some really useful and cool stuff. So, there is that! A good positive is that I know how to do some soldering and I am going to put a string of white LEDs in my front room up in the c90 degree roof to wall meeting area using a LED diffuser and a 600 chip per 16' strip that puts out something like 10,000 lumens (Doesn't use 5050). That way can get the room lighting off the floor and get rid of stupid lamps and cords--and have enough damn light finally--my house has no overhead light wiring in the living room."You cant do the same thick because LED_CPU/LED_C RGB connectors are for directly "low-side switching" "common anode" LEDs. First the directly/indirectly switching part:"Right, I kinda got that because RGB is like you said, a dumb circuit. If I cut the power then I get nothing because the MB can't communicate with the strip. I can't even find a 12V RGB hub anyway, and no shit. I'd have to plug the hub into 12V outlet in the PSU, and, where would that be? So, yeah, figured that out."You are EXTREMELY lucky you didn't set DLED_V_SW1/DLED_V_SW2 to 12V, that would result in even more smoke, this time from SSD/HDD and power supply.OK, so I don't know where that setting is, but why would I set a 5V peripheral to 12V? And why would there be such an option in the BIOS? I may be dense, but not shit4brains. I'm not changing anything that says anything about power until I completely understand it." Im sure someone in china makes a $10 product letting you drive basic RGB strip from ARGB signal."You mean like this?https://www.amazon.com/DEEP-COOL-Convertor-Motherboard-Non-Compatible/dp/B07QPYSC82I'm not understanding that thing. Somehow they must connect the DLED data wire to the hub and then convert it, so that the MB/Software can use the 12V riser for 5V DLEDs? I don't understand what it is doing."and again: its not 12V+, its whatever you set with DLED_V_SW1/DLED_V_SW2. 12V would be spectacular for a second."That was my mistake. I didn't cut anything DLED 12V because it isn't 12V it's 5V! I meant I cut the DLED 5V+ power wire, and now the LEDS plugged into the LED hub use SATA 5V power and no MB power. That's what solved the problem, becasue like you said, the data wire is still there.----------I still don;t know why the strip would fry the RGB fets, unless there was a bad resistor in the strip or the strip was just defective all the way through it? Couldn't it have been a bad motherboard RGB circuit?

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 04:54:28 am
content: When he put his head down I knew exactly how he felt.I never got any fireworks like that or noises. The transistors just seemingly melted together.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 11:06:35 am
content: Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amProfessional opinion from industry veteran, including 2 years in a position where I was the person deciding those things for a regional components distributor (Asus, Fujitsu, Samsung, etc). Its fried in a way indicating external short circuit, same category as mechanical damage. Sending something like this upstream always resulted in rejection.Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amThey dont fix such things anymore, either replace or refund.Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amIts impossible to list things you shouldnt plug. Manual states what the socket is for. Even "technicians" nowadays days are mostly clueless/low paid script reading drones in an offshore call/support centerQuote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amwhy should it stop anything when the connector was designed to power one specific device (led strip) in standby and user should not connect other things there? dont forget you can set it to 12V ;-)Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amthishttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Tiny-Signal-Amplifier-for-5050-3528-SMD-RGB-LED-Light-Strip-12V-12A-144W/274416133192between motherboard LED_CPU/LED_C and RGB strip will make motherboard transistors power output irrelevant. Trivial construction, 3 mosfets inside.orhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/NLED-WS2811-MOSFET-Driver-Module-Control-12-Volt-RGB-LED-Strips/143566018541same thing + WS2811 decoding chip = you connect this to ARGB connectorSATA power connector has 12V.Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amthose are jumpers on the boardQuote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amwhat if it was set to 12V by default?Quote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 amyou are not alone, wiring diagram for this thing makes no sense, doesnt show you what this thing is supposed to convert betweenbut the comments/buyer feedback says its the reverse of what you would need (in case you get your broken motherboard back)"My motherboard only has 12v rgb header, this great little product has allowed me to plug in my 5v argb devices, without buying a new expensive motherboard just to have compatability. Would buy again."" Helps if you have 4pin motherboards but trying to use 3pin RGB."Thishttps://www.ebay.com/itm/NLED-WS2811-MOSFET-Driver-Module-Control-12-Volt-RGB-LED-Strips/143566018541is pretty clear, connect to DLED connector, drive analog 12V RGB stripQuote from: DW1961 on July 10, 2020, 04:51:08 ammost likely a short circuit

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 06:57:56 pm
content: Well, hope they send a new one. I'm still scared to plug in a strip to the new board now. Or, at least hurry up and do what they do.The problem is, there are no ITX MBs on Amazon, or much anywhere else. They must be getting ready to release the B460 etc., updates. Even the boards that are listed on Amazon are from 3rd party sellers, and then not much, as of yesterday. And, the prices are inflated. Anyway, I only order 99% from at least "Fulfilled by Amazon." That way the take anything back in 30 days.

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 09:22:15 pm
content: How can I test future strips before I plug them in? Is there anyway t prevent that? It doesn't seem like it becasue if a resister is bad, and allows unlimited current, it would still produce continuity?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 10, 2020, 11:04:47 pm
content: MK14 sort of mentioned it above.- Set multimeter to 10A DC range.- Connect the '+' red lead of your multimeter to the 12V supply positive, connect the '-' black lead to the "12V" terminal on the LED strip.- Connect the 'R' on LED strip to the ground of your 12V supply (black).- The LEDs for red should light, and the multimeter will give you a current reading. Can repeat for the other color channels, testing one at a time.Hopefully you have a spare 12V supply (3A+ rated), or old PC power supply to use for testing. Otherwise you'd have to use your main PCs 12V supply..https://www.electronicshub.org/current-measurement-using-multimeter/

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 12:15:29 am
content: How about putting some sort of protection in-between the strip and the 12V RGB riser to prevent damage to the MB fets,etc., ? Would that be possible?

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 12:39:29 am
content: You can put a fast blow fuse (2A? 3A? not sure what those FETs were rated). But then its likely either its going to blow right away or never blow. If the LEDs somehow failed, usually thats open circuit.Another option would be to buffer the signal, have your own FET board that is triggered from the main board pins. Basically duplicating what is on the board already.But this would take some design work or modification of anexisting board. Maybe someone has made one already?

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 01:09:58 am
content: Well, what would be the downside of just soldering in a 2A fuse? The rise is good for 2Amps.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 01:37:22 am
content: Quote from: thm_w on July 11, 2020, 12:39:29 amyes, linked one earlierhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Tiny-Signal-Amplifier-for-5050-3528-SMD-RGB-LED-Light-Strip-12V-12A-144W/274416133192actually more expensive than complete controller you found :]

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 11, 2020, 02:07:32 am
content: Wouldn't a simple fuse work? I mean, yeah, a regulator would be great if I could do it. But I doubt I can.Something like this: 2V Water-Resistant Add-A-Circuit Blade Type Inline Fuse Holder with Cap16 Gaugehttps://www.amazon.com/Water-resistant-Circuit-Blade-Inline-holder/dp/B018W2T7VA/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=12v+2+amp+fuse+holder&qid=1594499440&sr=8-10

author: DW1961
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2020, 01:00:25 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on July 10, 2020, 02:46:02 am