Rohde cmw500 - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: charliedelta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 08:26:23 am
content: Anybody familiar with this unit. I picked up a surplus unit and I want to check the various LTE band performance. Going through the manuals has been painfully slow. Does anyone have any scripts/cheat sheets for the various test procedures for 4gLTE?I am also not sure what option keys I have and many of the options are onobtanium. R&S products and keys seem to have a short life cycle and the dump support very quickly for even relatively newish models. I got the answer "we dont have the software or firmware to generate the key options" Incredible excuse for such a high tech company!

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pm
content: I doubt you will get much help for your CMW500.It is an evolved model, that started with the CMU200. There was the CRTU (very similar hardware and same DOS mode, more about it later on) and then the CMU300.The reason the CMU200/CRTU are popular as second hand devices, is because they feature a DOS based mode that includes a full spectrum analyser and signal generator. The spectrum analyser is quite good and precise. While the CMU200 has many more options in this DOS frontend software, the CRTU offers less functions (but does include the same spectrum analyser and signal generator) and instead includes a Windows 2000 partition with specialized test software.This is the problem with your CMW500: it is a device made to test LTE hardware and very specific about it. In case of the CRTU, you don't even find any manual for the Windows 2000 environment. Instead it includes Visual Studio with the required C++ libraries, so you can develop your own software! This is for for instance for a mobile phone factory to do automated quality control.So I wouldn't blame R&S for giving you that answer: you just happend to purchase a high tech device that is beyond its life span and no manufacturer will give you free support for it. And neither paid support, because you are expected to purchase the follow up device. Often these are not "purchased" but rented or leased.For you to get an idea: I once visited a customer that had a container outdoors (but within their company grounds), full with R&S Audio Analysers. I asked about them and was told they were to be scraped. So I asked if I could have one. I was told no, because there was a contract in place where every single unit had to be scarped with the respective paperwork confirming so.I was told (after asking why and thinking that each device would render around 1000 Euro on Ebay) that this was part of the purchase contract and, additionally, to prevent workers to steal components of the units in use for spare parts of the scraped ones. Another reason is to prevent competition to get hold of cheap equipment. There were further plausible reasons.Bottom line is: you have a great device, but perhaps a CMU200 would have been better as a hobbyist spectrum analyser and signal generator.All that said, there is a topic here (search for it) that has a R&S keygen script. I am pretty optimistic that it will work to generate the keys for the options of your device. Just remember that activating options for hardware that is not present will only slow down the boot process. You should only activate relevant software options and those you have the required hardware for.

author: RAPo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 03:26:33 pm
content: Rudi' s lab has a whole series on the cmu200

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 06:39:55 pm
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmSorry to inform but that won't happen.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2023, 07:01:56 pm
content: @tv84: I was hoping that the CRW500 wasn't too different from the CMU200/300 generation, in terms of license mechanism.I guess that makes the CRW500 even less atractive for hobby users...

author: charliedelta
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 09:37:12 am
content: I got it, thanks all for the replies. I will pursue the chosen path and see if I can recover my investment which was not much.I will play around and see if I can use the feature set that I can get going.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 10:03:10 am
content: Please let us know if there is some spectrum analyser mode available, afterall.

author: tv84
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 11:05:50 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 07:01:56 pmNope, the CMW uses the now standard R&S 30-digit licenses.

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 12:12:59 pm
content: Cheap reverse engineering platform, then...

author: ps
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 06:53:18 pm
content: CMW500 is the successor of the CMU200 / CRTU series with LTE support. It is still state of the art and actively supported. Request your quote (and a datasheet) here:https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/wireless-tester-network-emulator/rs-cmw500-wideband-radio-communication-tester_63493-10844.html?change_c=trueSince this unit is still in production and R&S is making money from it, I assume they wouldn't be real pleased to see a key generator in circulation. This is different from the discontinued CMU200, which is now only used by hobbyists.

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2023, 11:44:18 pm
content: As someone who was an R&S applications engineer (now working in the product management team) and who supported the CMU200, the CRTU, and CMW500:Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmWe still very much actively sell and support the CMW500.Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmThe CMW500 supportsfarmore than just LTE. It supports all the previous RATs (2G, 3G, HSPDA/UPA, etc. - but not AMPS), WiFi standards, Bluetooth, etc. etc.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/products/test-and-measurement/wireless-tester-network-emulator/rs-cmw500-wideband-radio-communication-tester_63493-10844.htmlhttps://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/CMW-Platform_bro_en_5214-2833-12_v0500.pdfThe CMW500 also does have a general purpose RF (GPRF) function built into it like the CMU and the CRTU(-RU). I'm attaching some screenshots. You can use it like a spec an and sig gen (CW and ARBs) with no additional software required.Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmI agree that the CMU200 is very popular with hobbyists for a reason: they are widely available on the used market (we made literally tens of thousands of them) and relatively inexpensive these days.Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmPlease let me know if you're successful generating license keys for the CMW500

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 12:05:21 am
content: Forgot to mention the CMW also supports narrowband IoT. Here's a press release from a couple months back about our partnership with MediaTek for introducing the first protocol conformance test cases for NTN (non terrestrial network) IoT.https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/about/news-press/all-news/rohde-schwarz-and-mediatek-validate-industry-s-first-3gpp-rel-17-ntn-nb-iot-protocol-conformance-test-cases-press-release-detailpage_229356-1381379.htmlSo, yeah, definitely a current, supported product

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 12:15:34 am
content: Quote from: charliedelta on September 07, 2023, 08:26:23 amWe provide support foryearsafter products become end-of-life, and the CMW is still a current product, so I'm confused as to why you say that you couldn't get support or options. Who told you that we "didn't have the software or firmware to generate the key options"? We sell and deliver CMW option codes on a daily basis.As for short life cycle: we introduced the CMW prior to the deployment of LTE and it's still an active product. I have a picture of when I connected a CMW to one of the very first LTE UE's ever designed. It's been around a LONG time.I'm very sorry to say it, but none of those statements in your post make any sense at all. If you could clarify your previous post, that would be very helpful and much appreciated.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 12:19:54 am
content: a scrap contract for old equipment from the manufacturer is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. If there is none on the second hand market, that means that news of the instrument won't spread. Hobbyists are one vector, but even medium large companies (and beyond) sometimes get gear off ebay, because budget for all departments is not 'flagship'. They have flag ships, and also third world. This is NOT any kind of mystery, conspiracy, infact its really common knowledge to anyone with any experience in management and acquisitions.It's easy to start thinking that equipment like that is a scam for the high end user lol. Like big dumb companies.Only a bloody fool is not certain that the 'end of year budget spending by any means necessary' thing does not exist in companies that leads to the development of some SERIOUSLY lazy hardware. Some of it is good and game changer, but its littered with systems that are just there to essentially keep a lie going. It's hard to figure out which is which unless a broad variety of people use the equipment and then share their thoughts (not just in the carbon copy F500 'circle' that you KNOW is full of the usual bull shit).A small company with a budget often IGNORES the higher end stuff just because they know that quite a bit of it is basically a waste of money, and no one is there to help them navigate the mine field, through all the lies in the specifications and whatnot.Usually the best equipment is good and convenient, but competent test engineers kind of laugh at the price, especially for a 'analyzer' system made of different blocks, that someone is paying ALOT to avoid one or two interconnects and a few spread sheet columns. But that is something you learn really quickly.I have a feeling the manager was gonna pick em up in his car at night. Or the biggest ivy league dick heads EVER made that contract. Usually they specify dubious tax reasons.And even for the biggest companies it is worth it for them to have others use the same equipment on a small scale (they usually have ALOT of it doing ALOT of parallel work to generate money), to make sure they are not being conned. True for everything but the highest end process equipment (and even that usually has so many configurations that its not that much of a risk to have the competition have it, unless its like some super specific hot button thing like the near / sub nm lithography gear). But that shit is usually a room full of equipment, not a box. YOu think they have confidence in their equipment when all the deals are occuring behind NDA closed doors secret squirel shit? The amount of relief you can hear that someone else gets by using the same gear can be massive, if your ego is not the size of nebraska).And for the tactical, non strategic prospective, having the same gear littered around even the poor places *adjusts turtle neck* means that you have cheap, possibly more advanced (because smaller firm = does more with less) people that have LOWER salaries. It means there is closer to a actual normal hiring market, you can get cheaper trained employees that are ready to go into your more focused/specialized teams, that get a pay raise that the company paying does not see as ridiculous. Otherwise you have a VERY small circle of people to poach trained employees on, for time sensitive corporate operational plans achievement. This means the salaries are LUDICROUS, un fair to the general population (elitistm and the hiring practices are SHADY (legally).

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 12:32:42 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on September 09, 2023, 12:19:54 amDid you ever imagine the initial buy price may have been so attractive the OEM didn't wanna see them profit at EOL and wrote such terms into the supply contract.There are all sorts of tricks used to seal the deal.IIRC, at one time HP had a warehouse full of such used equipment.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 12:34:53 am
content: Quote from: tautech on September 09, 2023, 12:32:42 amstupid ass moves. Mean they dont wanna develop better stuff and stagnate if they are worried what their customers are gonna do with ancient shit (at the rate of technological progress!). I would see this company as a 'sick man'. If they were smart (instead of petty greedy) they would advertise this as a benefit towards purchase. You won't get fucked by capital expenses with us! This is like the company admitting to brain drain, choked r&D budget complaining that they will put themselves out of business because they can't innovate and improve. petty greedy & lazy

author: Bicurico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 07:52:08 am
content: @pdenisowskiThanks for your insights. Please note that my comments were purely from the hobbyist/hackers perspective.I do not recommend the activation of options on hardware that is commercially used or where the owner would have otherwise purchased said options.Also, I am still unsure: does the CMW500 feature a similar spectrum analyser like the CMU200/CRTU or not?The reason I ask is obvious: should one buy the CRW500 for this purpose, if one gets a great offer from surplus? If so, are there any advantages over the CMU200/CRTU?

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 10:25:23 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 09, 2023, 07:52:08 amYes, the CMW500 has a spectrum analyzer feature like the CMU (see screenshots in my post above). In fact, it looks and functions almost identically to the CMU.For thehobbyistI don't think there's much difference between a CMU and CMW as a generic spec an / sig gen, although I would have to check the specs. For the same price, I would get the CMW since it's newer hardware, but on the other hand there is a "community" of hobbyists using CMUs, so the "support" for using a CMU like that would probably be betterThe CMU is also somewhat of a legend in test equipment. There is (was) one on display at the Deutsches Museum in Munich

author: pdenisowski
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2023, 10:44:27 am
content: Quote from: Bicurico on September 07, 2023, 03:19:13 pmI can't speak to that specific case, but it's quite possible the "purchase contract" they were referring to was with a competitor (of R&S) that was offering a trade in discount. In some cases "trade-ins" are simply scrapped (*sob*) after being received by the company offering the trade-in, so providing proof that the units were scrapped locally may have been sufficient to obtain the discount.