SMD Assembly line within 30k budget - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2023, 12:57:58 pm
content: Hi there,We have a small electronics design house focuses on embedded systems based in Italy.We usually build prototypes and small batch of PCB for our clients using external partners.For cost and speed reasons we are evaluating to setup an SMD assembly line in house and we are looking for the best compromise giving our budget for it, reasonably 30k.Ideally we would like to get something which will be easy to setup for a specific job and will work with few trials. Giving our business model we have to churn different boards per month and we cannot afford long setup times for each one.I know I have setup many constraints but would love to get people opinions and suggestions.At the moment we are looking at Neoden based solutions. Maybe k1830 for pnp.Thanks for your help!Andrea

author: Jackster
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2023, 02:45:09 pm
content: Having seen a few user's experiences with NeoDen machines, I would stay away from them.They look nice and have a few nice features but problems exist with their machines and support.https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/follow-up-about-my-neoden-k1830-issues-and-neoden-customer-support/msg4578526/#msg4578526https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/neoden-yy1-pick-and-place-machine-with-under-$3k-price-for-hobbiestlow-vol-usag/msg4292275/#msg4292275https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/neoden-yy!-issues/msg4621429/#msg4621429I have multiple HWGC machines. While they too have quirks, the machines have been fine and so has the support.HWGC megathreadhttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/yx-smt660-smt880-pp-machines/msg3557816/#msg3557816If you are interested in buying one, DM me and ill put you in touch with the factory. Don't buy from resellers.

author: level6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2023, 03:12:02 pm
content: I have a NeoDen YY1 and so far, I have been pretty satisfied with it. Support from NeoDen USA has been great. That being said, if you are setting up a production line for SMD the HWGC machine are a really good value. Of course, you'll also need a reflow oven. I have a NeoDen IN6 and I am very pleased with it. You will also need a good stencil printing setup.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 08:50:35 am
content: In Europe you can easily get a good second hand line for that money. Remember stencil printer is the most important part. DEK, MPM or Ekra used or maybe GKG. Philips, juki or Yamaha for higher mix. I'm happy with my essemtec oven. A few bits just broke on my mpm printer but the most important thing is if you can still get parts easily. If it's a brand like Sony I'm not sure how easy it is to find parts anymore. My mpm has done a few million prints so it's pretty beaten up. 100% see second hand stuff in person. It's worth flying there to check it out. I should have, even from Australia to Europe.

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 09:06:48 am
content: I think as much as people think the pnp is the main guy of the line, I would emphasis more on the importance of the stencil printer and oven. With that budget, either get a 2nd hand PNP of Japanese/European brand or some better Chinese machine like those from HWGC/Bovi/Boreytech/Kayo. Don't have experience with the stencil printer but read a lot from the guys over here about how good are Dek printers.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 09:08:12 am
content: Thanks everybody ! What kind of stencil printer would you raccomend? A semi automated one?

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 25, 2023, 01:42:33 pm
content: A used full auto one if you've got the room. Really room is the issue more than cost for lots of stuff. The good stuff is big but often cheap used. The brands I listed, dek, mpm, ekra and maybe gkg. Ekra and Dek are the most common in Europe I think.

author: level6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2023, 03:00:53 am
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on December 25, 2023, 09:08:12 amIt really depends on how many boards you will be producing. At lower quantities and with panelized PCBs, a good quality manual printer will work fine and is much less expensive than an automated one.

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2023, 06:49:53 pm
content: It may be much more complicated than you think. Have a look at this topic:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/setting-up-a-real-smt-line-advice/In summary, you'll likely need:* Compressed (and ideally dried) air source.* Drystore for moisture sensitive components.* Paste printer. Also important thing to decide, what kind of stencils you're going to use: framed or frameless. Framed are likely more expensive, and for sure much thicker and heavier than frameless, so will require more storage space. For frameless, you'll need to get a frame, for example DEK Vectorguard. The other option is to get a manual printer which can use prototype stencils (just a metal shim) and don't need compressed air.* Pick & place machine,plus feeders. Feeders can be fairly expensive, so you need to figure out how many you'll need and compare prices for machine plus required number of feeders. Take into consideration how many feeders you need in the machine to assembly your most complex PCB, how often you're going to swap the components in the feeders (sales pitch/brochures rarely mention how long it takes to swap a tape in the feeder and set it up for use in the machine so you need to do some research), is setup changeover time priority over placement speed or the other way round, what is the smallest and largest component size you want to place.* Reflow oven. There are two common types: convection and vapour phase. Convection are more common, but may struggle if you have a mixture or lightweight and heavy components. Also for better results you may need a nitrogen supply, but I think not many ovens can use it. Another think you'll need for the oven is thermal profiler. You'll get a better results from vapour phase oven, also don't need nitrogen and potentially profiler, but the liquid is quite expensive and I'm not sure it's fully recovered in the cheap ovens.Other equipment to consider is washing machine for the PCBs, rework station for bottom terminated components (BGAs, QFNs, etc).As you can see there is quite a lot. Even if you go for simple/cheap/used machines it's going to be hard to get them for 30k€. Then you'll spend a lot of time to learn/debug the whole process.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 06:21:09 am
content: Thanks, all those hints are really useful! I am perfectly aware that it will not be easy as setting up a 3d printing machine. We have been in the electronics design business quite a while and I have seen in person how much my clients or CMs invest on the assembly line in terms of time and resources. But I have also seen clients with no experience in board assemblies reaching the point where they build their prototypes regularly, so I guess is feasible… That said the scope of my investigation is to see if it is worthwhile for us invest a little bit into it and offer an extra service to our client in terms of rapid prototyping (which we do manually assembling the boards at the moment) and small production batch (1/10k). Our boards usually have maximum 40/50 different components. We rarely use 0201, but we do use BGA in the 1/2 mm range. We already have a professional reworking station.I just had couple of quotations from a reseller (price in euros), will list only the ones who fits (ish) in our budget :Combo 1:Manual stencil printer Neoden FP2636: 1kNeoden4C + 40 feeders: 14kNeoden IN6: 3.5KCombo 2:Used DEK 248 (semi auto stencil printer): 6KNeoden K1830 + 60 feeders (mix of different types): 27kNeoden IN12C: 12kDelivery and training course for each combo: 3K.I had also a quote for Autotronik PnP but they are over budget.

author: Kean
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 10:50:11 am
content: I agree with others than the paste application is critical, especially if you do fine pitch parts, BGA, 0402, 0201, etc. That said, if your designs and production quantities are not too demanding you may initially be able to get away with manual stencilling and buy something like the DEK 248 later. You should always inspect the paste application anyway, and clean/redo the panel if it isn't up to scratch. Just make sure you have the ability to add the stencil printer later, especially if you are thinking about adding it in-line which means needing a lot of space and having everything compatible.Also keep in mind that the stencils for prototypes, manual printer, and semi/auto printer are likely to all be different. Some will need framed, or a specific size, or fiducial markings, etc. And if doing a few simple prototypes or a small batch it is often not worth getting an "expensive" stencil (the definition of expensive being quite variable depending on who you talk to).For the oven it again comes down to your budget, and if you want to run it all as a automated production line. You can always upgrade the oven, and in fact I think it may be the first thing you replace unless you get an IN-12 to start. I quite like my RF-A350 batch oven aka ZB3530HL - seehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/reviews-of-the-zhengbang-zb3530hl-reflow-oven-hot-air-circulation-and-power/but I'd really like a Vapour Phase oven like the ones fromhttps://www.pcb-arts.com/en/vapor_phase_one_twoIf you haven't already, you might want to watch some of the Youtube videos by Unexpected Maker. He documents his experience with the Nedoden K1830, as well as the IN6 & IN12 ovens, amongst other equipment. I believe he did get one of the very early K1830's, so keep that in mind when he discusses his problems. His progression from a dekstop PnP all the way to his current Juki with automated line with panel stacker/destacker and semi-auto printer is quite a learning experience for the interested viewer.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2023, 10:39:12 pm
content: I've seen nice Philips/ Yamaha and juki machines in Poland for the money. I got one of my uic machines for less than that. If you get a Yamaha or something from 20 years ago, it's about 20 years in front of the Chinese stuff capability wise. Though remember if you're looking for an automated line conveyors between are great.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 06:06:17 am
content: Thanks! Any advice on website where I should look for used machine? And…is there any risk in buying a used 20-years old machine? Like finding replacement in case something brakes. Or how I can be sure if the machine is perfectly functional before buying? Should I demand a warranty? Thanks everybody for sharing their experience!!!

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2023, 06:50:25 am
content: Yeah, it's risky. Much less risky than a new Chinese machine but much more risky than a new Fuji / Yamaha / ASM etc. Make sure the manufacturer still exists and look for parts on ebay etc. If there's lots then you're probably good. Look on smtnet for used gear and advice. These forums don't have many people with pick and place lines. I wouldn't look for warranty as you'll pay a ludicrous amount for it but I would see if you can see it in person first. If the line is still running then that's a huge positive as you can see how it's loaded etc. Make sure any machine can place the range of parts you need. If you need trays etc you might need to look for a tray feeder. Some machine are very limited in max height. You mentioned 0201 and BGA so make sure the feeders and machine can do that. I don't think anything from neoden can do that correctly.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 30, 2023, 08:17:25 pm
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on December 29, 2023, 06:06:17 amI started with a 20-year old Philips/Yamaha CSM84. It was built like a tank, but was VERY old school with centering jaws that were not highly accurate. Parts were available, but I didn't ever need any, except a few optical sensors.I upgraded to a Quad/Samsung QSA30A that is a WAY more complicated machine, with multiple vision cameras, servo Z axes, etc. This machine came from an auction, and was in VERY rough condition. Major parts had been replaced with the wrong parts. But, it was based on a VERY popular Samsung model, and so tons of spares are available in the far East at reasonable prices.As for perfectly functional, the only way is to go SEE it in person!Jon

author: Aspartame
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 10:29:15 am
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on December 28, 2023, 06:21:09 amIf you mount 201 you should buy a machine with grind screw drive, standard electric feeders and auto nozzle swap. These are toy machines.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 04:27:58 pm
content: I have got different feedbacks on the K1830. Will be visiting one of my clients which regularly use it to build prototypes up to 0402. Still not clear to me if it is a waste or if it just need a little bit of massage for building a board, but will eventually do the job…

author: level6
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2023, 07:36:20 pm
content: If you are working with a Neoden distributor, ask them about the new models they have, the 9 & 10. They have ball screw movement and highres cameras. The USA web site show a price for the Neoden 9 that is less than your quote for the K1830, which is an older model that's not even offered on that site anymore.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 10:26:06 am
content: I'd also think on pay off time. Low end machine are trouble. The higher end machines are less trouble but still trouble. Is there a local cm you can work with that already has nice gear? Things like spi, aoi, axi, good process control etc aren't essential but do improve yield / quality. My machines are fun to have but they'll never make financial sense.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2024, 01:13:59 pm
content: There are few CMs nearby and I have noticed they workload increased since Covid and production is somehow coming back a little bit in Italy. It is one of the reason I have started thinking about it…

author: Davlec Ltd
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 02, 2024, 12:52:41 pm
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on January 01, 2024, 01:13:59 pmThe situation is definitely more nuanced than that. There are certainly a number of CEMs who are investing off the back of increased re-shoring in recent years all over "the west" at the same time there are others who are still recovering from the supply issues we all had to navigate that made investment and forecasting very difficult. You also have poor growth in Europe and the effect of end clients still working through stockpiles of end product they built up during those times of "shortage". Some CEMs will be overstretched, some will have unexpected capacity and this will all shift quite rapidly depending on the global economy and conflict.

author: Aspartame
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2024, 09:26:42 am
content: If are into neoden, for 30k you should be able to buy manual printer+neoden10+50 electric feeders+in6.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2024, 03:06:44 pm
content: Do you have any feedback or reviews about n the Neoden 10?. I could not find too much on the web. Cheers!

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 04, 2024, 04:54:33 pm
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on January 04, 2024, 03:06:44 pmI could be wrong but I think in Europe the supported models are essentially the YY1, 4 and K1830, they are the ones you will find with regional distribution - possibly linked to CE approvals. You might be able to buy from Aliexpress but surely the theoretical support "locally" is Neodens biggest asset. None of the other short lived "higher end"/bigger Neodens were marketed for Europe either except the S1.Italy is home to TWS and IEMME you should be well placed to buy a locally made small SMT setup.

author: Aspartame
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2024, 12:04:55 pm
content: Quote from: andrea.longobardi85 on January 04, 2024, 03:06:44 pmMy judgement is based solely on specs and demo videos. The specs of other neoden's are not adequate for your needs.

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2024, 12:16:08 pm
content: Don't even think to get a Mechatronika (used) I went through that (there are a few machines available in Europe every now and then ridiculously overpriced and spares are also sold as expensive as gold), even new I would not buy anything from them.I end up studying the machine, writing my own software for it and after moving to another country (due to family reasons) building another machine myself rather than transferring the Mechatronika machine because it's just not worth it, the shipping cost would exceed the effective value of the machine, while the machine was actually very expensive.If I could go back in time I'd rather go for a used well known brand (the guy who advised it to me just went as silent as Mechatronika itself when confronting them with all the bad things of that particular machine; they even serviced and changed the motors which just end up adding more problems to the machine rather than improving anything, eg. oscillating Y axis on the machine due to a loose pulley - those are no user errors).A panel of 1200 components randomly stopped to pick and place due to pick up issues, rarely a panel completed without pick up error (due to poor feeder design), it required the user to babysit the machine.Also I would insist on testing the machine, if something is not documented and the company wants you to fly to them forget about them. As mentioned I built my own machine in the meanwhile there's absolutely nothing that cannot be documented or explained via phone.I admit designing good feeders is not easy (I did that and it took quite some time), but if a company is selling that commercially and after a service cannot get things right - and even after receiving another complaint then they should be avoided.Also be careful with recommendations - you have your products - your requirements and those might not necessarily map to other "small scale" smt-line owners.

author: jayx
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2024, 08:03:23 pm
content: For used machines, have a look onhttps://smtbroker.pl/,https://tools.adoptsmt.com/equipment/search/, but likely the best way would be to find a company which is upgrading their machine (or even better the entire line) so you can see it working.I can advise about Autotronik, likely it's better than Neoden, at least seems that it has better vision system for detecting components, also can change nozzles automatically. Used machines are not expensive, but feeders are and used ones are rare.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 09:26:54 am
content: To everybody who advised against Neoden PnP...you were right!!!Yesterday I have seen the Neoden K1830 in action at one of my client facility.I cannot judge the expertise of the PnP operator but the experience was a total mess.Every single board coming out of the PnP had to be reworked manually before going into reflow making it unusable into a production line. The board was a mix of 0603, SOT23, and QFPs.First I though it was a setup issue, but the problems where always different on different components.In the end it was a repeatability issue, I have seen a QFP which was placed on spot for couple of times at a certain point being paced shifted by one pin and the PnP program was the same!Bottom line I think this is a no go for me on Neoden and the local sale representative told me that Neoden 9/10 are not much better than K1830...

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 10:13:25 am
content: Not taking actions for Neoden but from my own experience during my DIY bringup experience.There can be several reasons for this.* Vacuum pressure too high / low* Wrong nozzle (too small, too big might be an issue)* pickup distance not correct, correlating with vacuum pressure that the component was flying through the air for some time and sit on the needle the wrong way (there's only a corridor for correction +/- certain degrees, if the component is too misaligned the correction might mistake the sot323 legs and cause completely wrong rotation)* the cherry of it all - certainly not good optical recognition,I made my optical recognition pretty good, some SOT323 are different and make it hard to determine the actual location of the part.That said I'm taking care that components are picked up +/- 30° (max, usually it's just within 5-10°) the optical recognition will do the rest and I have absolutely no issue with SOT323 anymore after fixing my software and HW issues on my custom machine.I have some variations for component detection passives, QFN, SOT232, SMA.. practically I an use QFN for SMAs but it won't take care about the shape of the part, SMA would knock out components if they're wrong (I never needed that feature actually)The most important part during the entire pick and place process is to have a good stencil and stencil printer. (I probably should underline this part and write it bold)On the Mechatronika I also had different issues per board, that was always related to their shit feeders, eg. couldn't advance random full reels sometimes. Those unreliable owners Leslaw Gajda, Dariusz Pieczerak from Poland never cared either (and I always gave them a window to fix their issues). Sometimes 2-3 stops during the pick and place process telling the user couldn't pick up part it made it absolutely necessary to babysit their MX80 because it might have stopped after 10 - 20 - 70% or whatever pure randomly (unless someone walks through all their feeders and unwinds them regularly). Also some hidden calibration settings in their firmware made it hard for customers to fix issues themselves (basically they made customers nicely depend on them just to get some extra cash from them). There's an array of key/value number pairs exposed in their application that's what I'm writing about.

author: SMTech
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 11:56:46 am
content: The more you understand the process & the machines, the more you will appreciate certain features in both hardware and software. The low end is very low end.MR is quite correct, there are a host of things that could be causing really shitty placement, they can include some modicum of setup/tuning by the user as well as all the quality of build/design issues on the machine itself and its algorithms. Its possible the machine they sure could do better with more effort, but that effort is not easy to do and not easy to determine how best to apply.Higher end machines have encoders on axes, sensors on vacuum (not to mention high end servo control boards/modules) and in some but not all cases measure component height &/or placement force this lets them compensate for things like board warp or components that are taller or shorter than programmed (e.g a different manufacturer of the same value capacitor).It is certainly possible to get a used line for your budget it just needs you to be in the right place at the right time with the funds ready. The best deals will be found buying direct from a user, lots of people scrap old machines when they upgrade. If you want support or slightly refurbished, then you might need a bugger budget.

author: 48X24X48X
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 01:42:52 pm
content: Usually it's pretty much a configuration and setup problem when you have many parts not placed properly. This includes many component height mismatch (even thin and thick film resistor can be different let alone others), vision not set correctly like the light intensity which in return affects the shape of the component under inspection, pick up location not accurately set, inaccurate nozzle size usage, and plenty more.There're few more and much seasoned company in China like HWGC, Bovi and Boreytech and has been in the business much longer than Neoden has been in making larger machine (don't count their earlier days on those smaller machine but count from their K180 and later machine). Take a trip to China and visit them yourself, you'll see it yourself. There's also many 2nd hand machine available especially in Shenzhen if Japanese or European machine is what you are looking for.

author: Mangozac
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 09, 2024, 11:50:47 pm
content: Quote from: SMTech on January 09, 2024, 11:56:46 amThis is the best advice. OP sounds like they don't need this urgently, so I would get in touch with the local distributors of high end machines and let them know that you're looking for a secondhand line. They will gladly put you in touch with their customers who are upgrading to new machines.My recommendation is to look for Yamaha/Philips/Assembleon placement machines <20 years old. They are built like a tank from only high quality parts and you can buy brand new clone feeders for them from China. I get the impression these are less common in Europe though so you're probably best to look for what the equivalent is. Probably something like a MyData/Mycronic?Buying a used machine from China is high risk. I wouldn't do it unless youreallyknow what you're doing and definitely not for your first machine.

author: loki42
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 10, 2024, 09:45:18 pm
content: I've seen a bunch of used Philips / Yamaha gear used in Europe. I was going to buy a Philips line from Poland but ended up getting the uic because it had better odd form handling but the complete line with spare parts etc would probably have been a better deal. There's a good dealer in Austria too that had good prices.

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 12, 2024, 04:34:04 pm
content: Quote from: MR on January 09, 2024, 10:13:25 amYes, I had really frustrating problems with my used Quad QSA30A (made by Samsung, similar to their CP30).It was spitting SOME components onto the board with bad placement. It all happened so fast I couldn't see what was going on.Finally, after having this issue for a few months, I saw the pattern! It was ONLY on parts that I had defined into the parts library as entirely new profiles.There was a menu button that I was afraid to touch, that said something like "change placement parameters". Well, when I touched that button, a screen came up with all the vacuum and Z stroke timings! I compared the default settings with those of parts that were successfully placed, and they were WAY off. I changed those settings and all was good.Jon

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2024, 07:19:51 am
content: Quote from: MR on January 05, 2024, 12:16:08 pmI have got a quote for a Mechatronika M10V at 30k+ with feeders. On the spec side seems to fulfill my need but I haven't seen it in action...I think after your comment I will be cerefull on this machine...

author: MR
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 09, 2024, 01:41:50 pm
content: Don't go for that Mechatronika I built my own machine in the meanwhile - it's easy to build a machine like that with one single pick and place head forget about that.Take your money and run to another vendor with it.30.000$ is absolutely overpriced, resellers only list it because they earn a good amount of commission from that junk.It will pick and place and if you're lucky with your parts you will not run into problems, but there are problems with certain parts which are on the market.The owners are retired - there's no motivation to fix anything, but it's still nice to count money coming in at that age.If you can make them fix our machine and all the problems we had with it with *their* software (the machine is now decommissioned and idling in Austria because I moved to Taiwan (I built my second machine in Taiwan with the knowledge I gained from the Mechatronika machine, but with multihead) - the MX80 now works okay with our own software and can handle the problematic parts but that's not our job - neither your job as a potential customer).They probably tell you that we have no idea about hardware, software and mechanical engineering and that we damaged the machine ourself, it's scam.Their website has no valid SSL certificate, no new product updates for over 8 years either.Just look at the picture of the top camera (which is supposed to be sold as new and judge yourself, some other customers also confirmed that their cameras are modified like that - even on the M10V (picture attached)).Also after their scam upgrade the speed did not improve, it was just as slow as before due to wrong settings (1700cph max) their top of the line product.Overall this has happened quite a few years ago, we are over that - I see the MX80 which we own as our product now we can make anything out of that since we have full control over everything now. But before when they just cut the support it's a shock you invest that money and get no help to successfully build your products. And by time we figured out that the problems are on their side - misconfigured machine and handicapped software.I offered them even to work for free to fix their shit software (even under NDA). It was not possible to pick and place a single panel (1700 components without babysitting). Sometimes 1 component made the process stuck, sometimes 3-4 times and all nicely randomly.I have 2 days left before going back to Taiwan, maybe I'll disassemble their feeder box again and take some photos.. it's just a disgrace what they have built.. well for 600$ a box would be okay but 4000EUR/20 lanes (there are only 2 cheap stepper motors + solenoids inside!). It's just a push feeder under the hood, no sprockets and it will cause issues with some plastic tapes.From a business point of view well done... they're in the range of something customers are willing to put on the table but the value is just not there.my time is more important than this Mechatronika pick and place project, especially since our DIY works better (luckily). I consider the Mechatronika junk as a hobby for the future again.

author: andrea.longobardi85
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: February 25, 2024, 07:26:57 am
content: Has anyone experience with small Vapor phase oven like this:https://www.vaporflow.eu/I have read good feedbacks compared to bench convection reflow. Price is reasonable and there is a new model coming out which can reflow 440x235 cm PCB.

author: Chad.Wagner
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2024, 07:53:48 pm
content: My Neoden 4 has allowed me to stay in business.