Opinions on OKi/Metcal MFR-1351 soldering/desoldering station? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 03, 2014, 10:42:02 pm
content: I always toyed with the idea of replacing my el cheapo ZD 915 desoldering station (which works in principle, but tends to burn pads and has a pump that is sometimes too weak), but dropped that idea as soon as I saw the prices for anything considerably better.Now I stumbled over an offer for a new MFR-1351 with a lot of additional cartridges (9 for desoldering, 3 for soldering) for 600€ which is still expensive of course, but e.g. a desoldering station from JBC would be in the > 900€ range. Plus I'd get an additional "SmartHeat" Iron which could maybe even stop me from buying a JBC soldering station.I'm a little concerned about the total lack of temperature control (despite of the SmartHeat promise) and generally would prefer JBC also due to cartridge availability, but the affordable JBC stations are not modular in any way and the modular stations are even more expensive.So: any experience with that MFR-1351 station, especially regarding its use as desoldering station?

author: zapta
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2014, 02:07:04 am
content: Have you considered a used mx500? E.g.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-MX-500P-11-SmartHeat-Solder-Rework-System-Power-Supply-/161228628534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2589f9a236+ new base and handle. They are highly maintainable and will last forever.Temperature setting is not an issue for me. All my tips are 1xx (700F ?) and not issue whatsoever.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 04, 2014, 08:46:52 am
content: Well, a used MX500 base unit costs ~200€ here. With a new desoldering gun, handpiece and a few cartriges, I'll end up in the same price range.And my understanding is that the MX500P has only a 40W supply while the MFR 1300 series has 110W. Which is a slight difference.Also I understand that the MX500 doesn't even have an integrated pump for the desoldering gun - if it had, I'd be especially concerned about the remaining life span of that pump in a used unit.Besides, when buying a used unit, there's always the risk that you have had luck and your unit dies sooner than expected.So to come back to my original question: does anything speak against the MFR line or the MFR 1300 in special? I understand that MFR was branded OKi not long ago while the MX500/5000 was always branded Metcal. Then again, OKi acquired Metcal like 20 years ago and both use the same inductive "SmartHeat" technology anyway, so why would I prefer an MX500 over an MFR 1300?

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 05, 2014, 08:46:31 am
content: Ok, some things I learned in the last daysThe MFR-1300 line is the only Metcal/OKI desolder option if you don't have compressed air available.Despite of misleading information on the site, in the datasheets and in the catalogs etc., the tweezers (MFR-H4-TW or upgrade kit MFR-UK4) can be used with the MFR-1300.Only the stand for the soldering hand-piece has support for auto-sleep. The stand for the desolder tool (and also the one for the tweezers) doesn't support auto-sleep.While the MX line and the MFR line both use SmartHeat, the frequencies differ (13.56MHz vs. 450kHz).I guess there must be some benefit in using 13.56Mhz (faster regulation?), but I haven't found any information about that.Then again, the MFR videos on Youtube look pretty convincing even with "just" 450kHz.Still, some feedback from actual users would be nice.

author: ffloz
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 07:34:33 am
content: MX is more expencive because it contain high frequency schematics and connectors.Also it has cartriges in 4 temperatures (500, 600, 700, 800 F).MFR is cheaper and doesn't have 500 F temperature range. So I suppose it less good for small SMD stuff.The only Metcal that I don't recommend is one with interchangeable tips (MFR + MFR-H2-ST handpiece and also Metcal PS-800, Metcal PS-900).It has lower performance.Metcal MFR and MX series has big advantage taking 100-240 VAC of input voltage.There is a good offer at OKI United States web store:https://www.okinternational.com/us-web-store/english/globalnavigation/oki-metcal/shop-by-offers-of-the-monthMFR-SDI(same as MFR-1351, with internal pump, does not require shop air) will cost 444 USD + shipping.But I am not a Metcal user. I think that the accurate temperature control is very handy for home and laboratory usage.

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 05:07:25 pm
content: My understanding is that both MX and MFR now use the same three temperature ranges:F = FR4 / Fiber Glass, for most standard applications T = Temperature Sensitive C = Ceramic for high thermal demand applications. And usually you're fine with F.There are a few more tips available for the MX series, but the range of MFR tips (DxP, SxP, RxP, TxP) is also pretty wide.About the different frequencies: I noticed that but there's no word what exactly the benefit of the 13.56Mhz compared to 450kHz is. Not even OKi/Metcal advertises the 13.56Mhz as faster/better/whatever. As I said: I would assume nobody uses 13.56MHz without a reason, but the MFR system seems to work great, so why bother?Besides, availability for MFR stuff is much better here in Germany and it's quite a bit cheaper anyway, so I went for the MFR. With the cartridge system of course and also the new hand piece. Should arrive soon.In the end it was JBC vs. Metcal and while I really think that JBC stuff is great, a full JBC equipment (solder+desolder+tweezers) would have been like three times more expensive than Metcal/MFR. And honestly, while an LCD with the current temperature and stuff is really neat, I also like the idea to never think about the correct temperature again - especially when desoldering.BTW: while US prices are a dream of course for stuff like that, German customs are a pain in the rear and I'd have to pay at least 19% import VAT plus probably some other fees. And shipping of heavier parts from the US is very costly (like $100 or more). Then again, MFR stuff is relatively cheap here in German, as one of the biggest retailers (Conrad/Voelkner/Digitalo) sells them. So not even importing the tips makes much sense.

author: mamalala
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 13, 2014, 08:36:24 pm
content: Quote from: 0xdeadbeef on June 13, 2014, 05:07:25 pmWould be interresting to see and compare the inner workings/asseembly of the cartridges for these two frequencies. I can imagine that the higher frequency allows for smaller dimensions. After all, this is basically acting like a transformer, the primary being the coil fed by the supply unit, and the secondary a dead short made of that special alloy (which ceases to be a short winding once the temperature reaches the curie point).Don't remember which of the low frequency supplies it was, but a friend of mine once drew up a schematic for the unit he had. The whole circuitry is far less complex than the one for the high frequency stations.Greetings,Chris

author: Thomas
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 14, 2014, 11:05:38 am
content: Only general OKi MFR/Metcal MX soldering experience here, no desoldering.I've had the MFR-1110 for ~3 years. It has performed flawlessly, no problems whatsoever.We have Metcal MX-5000 (and a 5200 recently) stations at work, and I haven't noticed any real difference in performance, but I haven't tested it thoroughly either.The quality feel is a bit less on the MFR.The handpiece connector seems a bit less rugged, looks like a DIN. It is latched and I think it's OK.The handpiece itself is all plastic, no aluminium like on MX. But it works well, I can solder all day and it stays cool.The cable is slightly thicker and less flexible, I think? Not a problem, though.On the positive side: The power unit is cast aluminium and seems very solid. I like the design, looks like a heatsinkI have never missed temperature adjustment, no need for that.Overall a huge step up from my Weller WECP-20 from 1992 (which is still going strong, btw).Great value for money!

author: 0xdeadbeef
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 15, 2014, 03:15:14 pm
content: The MFR 1300 base unit is indeed built like a tank. Apart from the faceplate (which is now black and has the Metcal logo instead of the OKi logo), it's completely made from die-cast aluminium. One weird thing: there are two holes in the bottom labeled "sleep" and "power down" - yet there are no potentiometers there or whatever to actually set anything.Also there was no real manual included, only some kind of quick starter sheet which basically only tells you that the tip gets hot and you need to switch the device on with the on switch. Anyway, I downloaded the real manual from their homepage. Which is also pretty sketchy but at least explains that the power down time is fixed to 2h.I understand that the "sleep function" is indeed done by saturating the core inside the cartridge through two magnets inside the stand. As only the stand for the solder hand-piece (WS1) has them, I wonder if it makes sense to add magnets to the stand of the tweezers and desolder tool as well.The magnets inside the WS1 stand are two flat "donut segments" of about 100° each where the smaller/inner arc is one magnetic pole and the larger/outer arc is the other pole. The way they are mounted, the two magnet are pushing themselves away from each other. Honestly I'm a little puzzled if this exact geometry is needed or if it's sufficient if the cartridge is just inside a magnetic field.Apart from the missing magnets in all stands but WS1 there are two more slightly annoying things: firstly the pump of the MFR-1300 will run shortly each time you switch it on. So if you want to use the station to solder primarily, this can be a bit annoying - especially if you decide to solder something late at night. Secondly, the cables of the tools are coated with a slightly sticky rubber. Maybe sticky is the wrong word, as it's not like they stick to your hand, but with three tool stands next to each other and the cables touching each other, there's a lot of friction and you could easily pull a tool from its stand unwillingly. This is especially true for the tweezers as they sit very loosely in their stand.Talking of the tweezers, they also seem to take quite a bit longer to heat up. It's more like 10 seconds or so. I guess there the 60W limit kicks in. But apart from that, the tweezers are quite nice. You can adjust the fit in two dimensions (tip length and horizontal position). Also there is a mechanical switch to work either in wide or fine pitch position. Anyway, desoldering small 0603 SMD resistors/capacitors is a piece of cake with them.The desolder tool also works pretty fine. I like that you can take of the pistol grip and use it like a (big) pencil. I just have to get used to the pump running always a bit longer than you actually pressed the button. The exchange of the collection chamber is very easy and you don't need any force like with my el cheapo ZD 915. Also you can't burn yourself because the actual collection chamber is made from cardboard. I'm just a little concerned about the replacement costs of these cardboard containers. Indeed, the containers would last for very long, but there is a small pad of fine steel wool in front of the actual (paper) filter which catches and holds the solder. You can take this out and clean it, but it shrinks each time as its threads are stuck to the solder. So sooner or later you'll have to replace the whole collection chamber just because this little steel wool pad is getting too thin. I guess I'll try to buy fine steel wool and form small replacement pads from it.