snap fit bullshit - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 10:40:57 pm
content: Seriously I hate this shit. I just had to fucking chisel into a god damn laptop with a fucking hammer to undo a snap fit. Now its in the trash. God damn. I refuse to even work on that dog shit.hahaha hinge tool my balls. I literately had to take a hammer to the fucker to wedge something in there. I saw a youtube video where the guy does it with a god damn credit card on the same model. Nice manufacturing tolerances HP. Fuck your printers too. I just broke 400$. And I am happier for it. Nice thermal design too with the over heating. Would it kill people to use a few more screws and a gasket? Holy shit. By the time I opened it my stress level was so high I was just like fuck it, rip the ram and hard drive out and toss the fucker.p.s. probably broke because of shit thermal design. They are allergic to fucking metal I swear. Joke of a heat sink inside mounted like a joke. They got a tiny die-cast heat sink with a heat pipe on the CPU. What the fuck. I think it used to cost like 800$ too. It looks like pot metal. Gee I wonder if their fucking manufacturing budget went on pot. Looks like they used about a mile high pile of thermal compound between the CPU and the heat sink. When I saw it I was just like yea this is trash and the engineers musta been fucking completely baked.

author: sleemanj
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 10:53:24 pm
content: A poor workman blames his tools.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 10:55:46 pm
content: yea that heat sink just fucking speaks 'quality design' to me LOLi bet you like snap rings dont you?

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:08:16 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 10:55:46 pmI bet you have a practical, equal-cost alternative for securing shafts all lined up, but you're the only one who sees it.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:12:02 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on November 10, 2018, 11:04:51 pmits trash bro, lenovo and dell laptops don't have this kind of shit in them and they actually disassemble properly. Cheaper too.zero capacity thermal design is trash too, if you clog a vent for 2 seconds it gets fucked up. Also its not one of those designs thats super full inside, they decided to shave pennies on it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:13:34 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 10, 2018, 10:53:24 pmThere is also Russian variant: "A bad dancer blames his testicles".

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2018, 11:31:26 pm
content: now that I am thinking about shit design, the heat exchanger on this thing is impossible to clean. You need to do a full disassembly to access the fins because they are hidden behind some plastic grate thats part of the bottom plate. If they had a ounce of thought that part would be accessible by a separate smaller panel held on by a few screws. If I were to actually fix this thing, I would have probably cut the damn plastic grate off on a band saw and modded it so you can take it off without disassembling the entire back panel with 12 snap hinges and like 15 screws.Why the hell would you expect someone to take apart like 12 or more snap hinges to do regular cleaning of the heat exchanger? If you wanted to make it real good you would put a screw covered port on the back panel so you can stick a compressed air tube in there and blow out the heat exchanger. As usual its clogged with a 3mm layer of dust. But you get a little cake thing thats impossible to blow out. I have done this before. I ended up having to make special hook tools out of paper clips and shit to try to get the dust cake out of the area between the stupid laptop plastic protector and the heat exchanger. And you need alot more pressure and flow then a compressed air can.People don't adapt to thermal requirements. Same as when I see LED lights used in old holders, I got the new ones that have convection air flow that works with the damn cooling fins on the bulbs.Actually I think the thing was built with negative pressure, so it makes a dust film behind the heat exchanger that you can't blow out through the fan. It's just ridiclous.I don't care anymore. Its dead and I am done with it.Videocards have this problem too but at least you can get a chassis with a dust filter on it.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 12:36:51 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 11:31:26 pmI'll tell you a simple trick. Drive to a fuel filling station, take compressed air gun (at least we have those here), blow air into the grill, done. There might be some speckles of dust trapped inside the case left but they don't affect anything.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 12:52:06 am
content: I'm not generally bothered by cursing, but jeez, when you use those words as much as the OP it kinda wears them out, and doesn't exactly present an image of sophistication and intelligence.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:07:59 am
content: I've cleaned out the radiator side of a laptop's heat exchanger. Did it by doing a partial disassembly ... carefully. I was then able to remove the fluff build-up in a single piece. It had the consistency of carpet underlay, so I'm not sure how effective compressed air would have been.After that, the frequent shutdowns stopped altogether.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:29:20 am
content: OK , you are upset with "snap fit" on a laptop!Try it on a car!My daughter's Hyundai has the bumper/"stone tray" held on with the same sort of thing.Just like all the small junk like battery covers on TV remotes, etc, it relies upon plastic being resilient & springing back to its original position.This part of the car body vibrates loose, & the first few times can be tapped back, but after that, it won't go back properly.Maybe they wanted it to be able to fall off in the case of an accident, but the same could have been achieved by using plastic shatterable bolts or rivets.Anyhow, Hyundai won't fix it under warranty--- they say "You must have ran up on the curb!"Miserable sods!

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:33:18 am
content: oh yea cars if its not under the hood I don't wanna deal with it. Usually its completely demented.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:34:16 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on November 11, 2018, 01:07:59 amIt would just separate into smallish pieces. Disassembly is really necessary only if you are unlucky and one of those pieces get stuck in the fan preventing it's normal operation.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:40:02 am
content: not from my experience. Maybe if you get some kinda thin tubing like the one used for filling balls to put between the fins with like 100PSI.

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:47:43 am
content: Screws take space and cost assembly time and add to BOM cost. All things that go opposite to what the majority of the consumer market wants right now. And screws aren't magic either. How many times have you found a plastic displacement screw has reamed out all of the material it was supposed to grab, or broken off the post it attached to. The answer is a larger post and a metal insert. Which takes you back to comment one in spades.From another direction, tabs aren't the fundamental issue. It is blind tabs, which are cosmetically desirable, allow more flexible placement and provide a little better moisture barrier. But apparently the marketplace values the looks and the last little bit of compactness more than maintainability.This is just another one of those demonstrations that it is harder than hell to get all three of better, faster and cheaper. Generally impossible.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2018, 01:59:28 am
content: at least with a screw if you strip it you can fill it with JB weld and retap it if you have a blind tap. It can cosmetically still look functional if you are careful drilling it out.I don't even know how to approach the bastard I had properly. Maybe if you had a bunch of steel shim stock you can like pry it open at two points really carefully by sliding in lubricated shimstock to widen two gaps, there was like NO way to use wedges etc. That's too crazy for me.It's not using snap fit, its actually using harpoons.

author: station240
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
content: So how many of these do you need to buy a replacement laptop then ?

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 03:47:52 pm
content: Quote from: sleemanj on November 10, 2018, 10:53:24 pmMhmm, my thoughts too.Nothing a Compaq Wedge or an iSesame wouldn't deal with (and I've repaired *hundreds* of laptops in my time)

author: Richard Crowley
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 03:56:31 pm
content: Isn't this why we have literally dozens of different kinds of spudgers?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 05:28:25 pm
content: I was trying to repair an HP ethernet switch where the reset switch had broken. It was a tactile button that was pushed in the sideways direction. The idiot designer had used an smd device. It lasted for about 10 presses I estimate before breaking loose. I went to open the case, got it separated pretty much all around except at the front and it refused to come loose. After about an hour, I gave in and used physical force to tear it apart. The upper and lower parts of the case had been connected with two tiny screws through the front panel.Those two screws were hidden behind the glued on front panel plastic overlay.Wow.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 05:28:36 pm
content: Normally that works. In this case no. I could not get it to seperate at all. I dont think i coulda slided a feeler gauge into it. I had to bust it open like a locked door.I think the plastic got stiffer over time. I thought it was clamshell welded.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 05:53:32 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on November 12, 2018, 05:28:25 pmI'm avoiding using SMD side switches, but how hard you need to press a reset button which you normally should not touch to begin with?

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 06:33:06 pm
content: I agree, shouldn't need to press it often, but it didn't seem to be working so I used it more than they expected I guess. The thing is, since you normally wouldn't need it often, they could have made it bottom access instead of the front panel. Then when pressing it the force would be toward the pcb instead of across. The pads for the reset and clear buttons were already on the bottom of the pcb, all they had to do was relocate the holes and change the switch type.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 06:44:43 pm
content: Quote from: rdl on November 12, 2018, 06:33:06 pmI guess it's a type of button you need to hold for a few seconds. And many people apply excessive force thinking it's not working. I sometimes repair ovens which have conductive rubber switches with plastic caps. You need to hold power button for 2 seconds to switch it on (guess measure against accidental switch on). But most people I've seen instead press it as hard as they can. As result PCB bends and cracks in soldering appear and cause completely unrelated faults.

author: Bassman59
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2018, 11:56:34 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 10:40:57 pmAges ago I got a DigiDesign (now Avid) MBox 2 for cheap, and being the curious sort I tried to take it apart.Keyword: tried.It was clearly designed to not be reverse-engineered. Lots of screws and also lots of snap-fit shit, and a lot of folded metal for EMI mitigation.The worst thing was that DD/Avid loves to deprecate old hardware, so its useful life was very short.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 01:12:00 am
content: I don't think that's likely to slow down reverse engineering. Someone who really wants to reverse engineer something usually doesn't mind sacrificing one to do so.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 05:59:01 pm
content: You but you dont need to regulalry strip that shit to unclog a god damned heat exchanger

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 06:10:59 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 11:31:26 pmDid you pay attention to how well the unit can be maintained when you bought it or did you just buy the cheapest thing you liked?

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 07:46:25 pm
content: i tried to fix someones trash. It's not cheap either those laptops went for like 900$ when they were made. Surprisingly the lowest end Lenovo (what was it, like 300$?) from best buy is 100 times easier and faster to take apart. Also had more robust thermal design.It's not a sign of good design. None of the stuff I mentioned is. It's like impossible to clean shower doors that I am sure some of us are familiar with.

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 07:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 10:40:57 pmSorry Coppercone, I think you simply missed the right point in time to put down your tools, take several steps back, let it sit over night. If you worked on the laptop in anywhere close to the mood you were still in while posting this, I am not surprised about the outcome.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 13, 2018, 07:55:43 pm
content: i know how to open a laptop man, I own like 4 in about 5 year segments between 1998 to now. This one was just bullshit. I still prefer a old micro sized think pad to this new crap.Bolts fuck up and fuse too, we have to use blow torches and magical fluid mixtures to get our cars apart.. but at least you can grind them or drill them or do lots of things. When a snap hinge system malfunctions boy is it fucked.

author: maginnovision
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 08:01:04 am
content: I don't know... I've got a 17" HP Omen laptop and I read about all sorts of people destroying the cases taking them apart. I did it and... No drama. Took it apart, installed 2nd hard drive, put it together. Been fine since, can't even tell it was opened. It's definitely a thing where some people can do it and some can't.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2018, 08:58:29 am
content: I've been doing laptop repairs since the first Macbooks and Compaq SLT machines (still have my SLT opening wedges and use them often)If it doesn't come apart without breaking, you're doing it wrong or some sod has glued it together (nail polish remover works well for sealing cases up on some machines).It really is that simple.

author: bc888
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:35:35 pm
content: Great rant, can totally relate. Usually when I'm talking like that I've got bloody knuckles or something along those lines. Once started to teach my son and his 2 little buddies how to change the oil on a 1998 Honda Civic which was still fairly new at the time. I only turned my head for a brief moment and one of them decided we were done and jumped up, grabbed the hood and the hood folded over the bar used to hold the hood up. Not a swear word from me and after I finished laughing my ass off and showed them how the hood support shaft had to be lifted and placed back into the plastic socket we moved on to basic body and fender work with hammers and steel backers. But in your instance, that just seems so fu*ing needless that I'm with ya man.

author: MrMobodies
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 05:53:38 pm
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 10, 2018, 10:40:57 pmI was given a box of junk laptop motherboards some years ago but I binned them now.Some ToshibaLots of AcersHpand some Hannstar (not sure what make and model they came out of.)Most them still had the processors and a heatpipe still intact and the the copper pipes were dark and black.The copper joints on the board also showed that colour.Obviously they overheated.I chose a Lenovo laptop which is over 9 years and it works with no problems but its been through 3 batteries.The one I choose has got two fans, one for the quad core processor and one for the Quadro graphics card. The are six vents on the sides, back and underneath. The air comes in from the side and the fans blow the air out at the back and doesn't depend on anything blocking the vents underneath.It cost me a lot but it is turning out to be worth it.I knew back then that there would be problems with the ones selling in the local shops when they put one tiny vent at the bottom and my suspicions turned out true for the amount boards I replaced over the years for customers.Edit:What I also find is that when you put them in sleep and place it in the bag, the battery drains quick in some of them so they turn in the bag to shut down something stops it so it overheats.In my case I narrowed it down and it turned out to be the Quadro Display driver at the time which can cause it to hang when going into or coming out of sleep. Now I just shut it down and never put into sleep. I have seen the sleep issue happen to lots of other laptops in my time.

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 06:07:07 pm
content: Seriously? Another rant? What did you expect after using a chisel and a hammer? Mother Teresa carved out of a computer?Yeah, lets blame the tools. I opened several equipments using a credit card. It works every time. Perhaps you didn't tried hard enough (with the credit card, not the chisel).Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 08:29:03 pm
content: haha credit card the plastic would not bend to slide a feeler gauge intoid like to see your wrecked credit cardit opened just fine with some percussive maintenance but when I saw the puny heat sink and general internal design I decided to cut my losses lol

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 08:43:23 pm
content: Well, I don't use an actual credit card, although it is a good use for an actual one. A spreader from OSH stencils does the job well.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 30, 2018, 08:49:28 pm
content: you could not slide paper into this seam

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 01:03:53 am
content: Quote from: coppercone2 on November 30, 2018, 08:49:28 pmBecause paper is not hard. In the past I repaired tons of mobile phones as it was my job and many of them are a complete bitch to take apart compared to the worst of laptops. It's just lack of skill, crooked hands, whatever... problem lies in you, not laptop or tools.

author: bloguetronica
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: December 01, 2018, 06:00:27 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on December 01, 2018, 01:03:53 amI subscribe to that. A piece of cardboard can be used to gain a "foothold" to stick a piece of plastic into the gap. I don't like to use metal tools (knifes, screwdrivers, etc), because it dents the plastic and the result is ugly.I've seen many wrecked TV remote controls in my life because people are not careful and use any tools available to pry into the soft plastic.Kind regards, Samuel Lourenço