Foldable phones are all the rage! Marketing wank or practical? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 08:50:24 pm
content: By now I'm sure most of you have already seen these foldable phones from Samsung and Huawei, among others:They are definitely impressive as concepts and I'm sure going to be useful over time as software catches up to take advantage of the extra screens/cameras.... not to mention trying to provide a seemless user experience as you transition between the narrow folded and wider unfolded formats. But for now they are likely to experience a lot of first-generation woes.I noticed that on some of the displays demo'd (especially the Huawei version) there is still a noticeable "ripple" at the bend of the screen. You can't see it when the display is on in a dark room as the light emitted hides it. However, if you look at the surface of the phone when there is some glare on it, you can spot the bend. Perhaps this can be reduced by having a less shiny display surface. I'm not sure if they "glue down" the screen in that area or not, or if it is allowed to flex more freely.No mention of durability testing on the fold. I am sure they have constructed a robot that will bend and unbend the phone thousands of times and see what effect it has on the screen and gear mechanism. What about the plastics that make up the display itself... could they dry out or deteriorate over time, something that even these initial fold-stress tests will not encounter on a new display? Give it a few years and if the plastic gets more brittle perhaps there will be more problems? And finally if there is a "failure" what happens? Does the whole screen go bad or do you just get a thin line down the middle?I'm excited about this kind of display technology and while it may not be the best suited application for a folding phone, I can see how as production improves and costs reduce, we will see these being used for other devices that could take advantage of the bending and curving capability. It wouldn't even need to be a device that purposefully needs to bend repeatedly. It could be something that has a curved surface and a display could be glued to the curve. Or it could allow the display to be used in applications where stresses are constantly applied to them that could result in bending moments and therefore be less likely to break a display (like a regular phone stuck in the back pocket or dropped, or curved watches/bracelets or even screen wrapped around your coffee mug).I think it will be a few more years though until it becomes practical. Right now the costs for these devices puts them into "elite" territory. I am not even sure they will be on display at most retailers or cellular phone provider kiosks/stores. If they are, I would definitely be checking them out in person.What are your thoughts? Is this just another fad or good technology applied to the wrong idea? Or do you see this as replacing all displays going forward?Here's another interesting video of a company I never heard of before showing off a bunch of different foldable displays, gadgets, applications and their technologies as well as how far into the future they think it will be coming to mass market:

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 08:56:46 pm
content: It makes sense and has been in the making for decades, but it definitely seems the kind of technology you'll want to get into the third of fourth generation after all the major flaws have been ironed out.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:00:55 pm
content: Finally somebody is thinking about how to make phones more portable. I would buy a folding phone, but not for $2k.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:09:39 pm
content: Folding is pointless, but flexible could be nice, I've seen an awful lot of cracked/broken phones from being sat on or dropped. Personally I'd like to see the trend swing back towards very small phones, I bought the iPhone SE a while back because it was virtually the only midrange phone on the market in that size class. If I could shrink it down by 10% I gladly would. I don't understand the obsession with gigantic tablet phones.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:16:57 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 26, 2019, 10:09:39 pmFolding doesn't seem pointless, as it allows to facilitate those bigger screens within a much more compact form factor. Modern phones often literally don't fit in older pockets.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:36:11 pm
content: Quote from: 3roomlab on February 26, 2019, 10:28:51 pmI'm sure we'll get to something similar. The tablets millions of people have in their homes today were pure science fiction not even a handful of decades ago. Modern day phones and tablets surpass the tablet-like devices seen in scifi series as late as the 90s.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 26, 2019, 10:46:52 pm
content: Quote from: Mr. Scram on February 26, 2019, 10:36:11 pmWas that the first sext message?

author: wilfred
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 12:13:42 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 26, 2019, 10:00:55 pmThat'd be an improvement on the last 15years when they have been becoming less portable. But I seriously doubt that increased portability is what they are thinking about.With the contemporary fashion of shredded knees on new jeans I am expecting pre-scratched screens to be a thing soon.But the main advantage of folding screens might be a reduction in vertical videos. Hallelujah

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 12:27:43 am
content: Who knows where it will go, with the larger surface area you have more room for a beam steering antenna and not just a larger screen so in some ways it has benefits.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 02:31:47 am
content: Two words: planned obolescence.They will have designed the material to fail almost always shortly after the warranty expires in a few years from purchase, replacements will be no longer manufactured and even NOS will become too brittle to use because their barely-enough "environmentally friendly" plasticiser has already degraded.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 02:40:56 am
content: Quote from: amyk on February 27, 2019, 02:31:47 amOr, you know, people have wanted this for decades.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 02:41:44 am
content: Of course. Planned obsolescence is inevitable. But at least now maybe phones will fit in my pocket again.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 03:34:36 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 27, 2019, 02:41:44 amQuote from: james_s on February 26, 2019, 10:09:39 pmHave you seen these "iPhone Mini's" on YouTube? They are available on eBay for quite cheap. They are designed to look like small iPhones and they even skin the Android to have the Apple icons. Apparently they function like a normal phone although I would venture to say they are under-powered and probably suck on battery life due to the lack of space. Having experienced other cheap devices like this, they would be cutting back on most of the components and sensors. There may not be GPS, bad quality camera, possibly not even vibration motor, blue tooth connectivity? The screen resolution is extremely low, app compatibility likely bad, some old Android version most likely. I haven't seen a full rigorous review... but if they function like a low-end 2-3 year old Android phone but just tiny version of it, a lot of people may like it just for the novelty and ease of carrying it around. Has anyone had any hands-on experience with one of these:Once these folding screen production plants start to be built and the technology is refined and settles on a specific variant with fast reliable yields I am sure we are going to see these screens everywhere. It will take a number of years though. I like the roll-up TV idea I saw recently. There are also screens you "glue" to your wall (LG wallpaper TV... see video below) with double-sided tape because they are so light weight and thin. They do not have to be very durable because they just stick to your wall and remain there for years. Eliminating the glass and frame around the screen in such cases can make for very interesting applications. You still need to run a wire to the screen for power and signal but this can be introduced in a tiny box somewhere.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2019, 03:37:43 am
content: yep, i don't think it will become mainstream until they progress to a full "roll-up" display.(Red Planet/Earth Final Conflict style, as shown above).Full roll-up displays exist and have been demo'ed for a while. So i don't think it will take that long before we see products using them.Maybe 3-4 phone generations from now.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 05:30:46 am
content: Quote from: edy on February 27, 2019, 03:34:36 amThose are looking perhaps a little *too* small. Also I have several Android devices around and while there are some aspects I like such as the relative ease of jailbreaking, overall I hate Android somewhat more than I hate iOS though for different reasons. I also really dislike cheap flaky hardware as often used on low end Android devices. For all the fanboys both have, I'd say they're both crap. It's a choice of which one is least worse more so than which one is best.

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 07:47:51 am
content: Quote from: edy on February 26, 2019, 08:50:24 pmThe term today ispolymers. The 1960's movieThe GraduateHoffman was told the future is in plastic. Today it is polymers. Chemical Engineers, the growth today in polymers is roughly equivalent the growth in plastics of the 1960's and 1970's..Huge!I am repeating myself...

author: TheNewLab
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 07:50:33 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 27, 2019, 03:37:43 amYes, Red Planet or Earth: Final Conflict. That is when I will get excited about phones again.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 10:20:36 am
content: As soon as they're phone-sized but with a large roll-out tablet size screen, we're there.But, not only will we need mass production of cheap roll-out screens, we also need better battery tech.Can't have a cellphone battery trying to power a 8" screen.Thankfully electric cars are pushing the battery tech research super hard.

author: HalFET
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 12:24:52 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on February 27, 2019, 02:31:47 amNo one in their right mind would do that, you'd end up with a massive amount of warranty claims if you got your usage model or reliability testing wrong.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 02:19:59 pm
content: Quote from: james_s on February 26, 2019, 10:09:39 pmAren't those called "smartwatch with built in phone"?

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 05:57:21 pm
content: Why do these threads attract folks who seem to hate anything new and don't want innovation? crying "planned obsolescence!" for things that obviously have a limited life (like... umm, everything).. Only time will tell how practical or reliable they are.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 08:18:47 pm
content: I didn't get the feeling that this thread is hateful (until you showed up attacking folks)Planned obsolescence is a real thing. Especially in the phone world.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 08:22:34 pm
content: evil glass engineers and their fatigue graphs

author: ruffy91
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 08:49:05 pm
content: They should just engineer the display not to show "planned obsolescence" fatigue. The phone would then cost 5k$ instead of 2k$ because the manufacturer would not use the cheapest materials possible to reach design lifetime but the materials providing the best lifetime.All those people complaining would happily pay the premium... NOTAlso the display would then last 15 years and they would still use it while new phones would provide direct retinal projection of the image for less than what they paid for their now 10 year old phone.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 09:14:43 pm
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 28, 2019, 08:18:47 pmI'm not convinced this is really the case anymore.A lot of it early on was due to how quickly things were changing. Look at the Galaxy S line as an example: if you compare the specs of a Galaxy S to a Galaxy S2 there was double the CPU (1 vs 2 cores) and double the memory and had a bigger screen. The S3 doubled the number of cores yet again, and had an even bigger screen. The S4 went from a quad core to a octa core and doubled the ram, and the screen got even bigger.Then things slowed down and each one of the following revisions were only incremental changes, often only increasing the resolution of the display a bit or adding a GB of ram every 2-3 years, etc. I'd argue that the difference between a S3 and S4 is similar to the difference between the S4 and the current iteration of phones, and possibly in some cases the jump isn't as great - such as with CPU power.At least in the US, this equates to most people keeping their phones for longer - it's now close to 3 years on average for iPhones, with Android phones being a little shorter on average. It's also getting longer every year, which is translating into lower phone sales every year.Personally, I'm still using a Samsung Note 4 which was released late in 2014, and don't seem to be having any problems with wanting anything better. If I relied on the camera I might be a bit more likely to upgrade. But I sure don't feel like I'm using an out of date and slow phone. My wife's S4 or S5 we had to factory reset a year or so ago after it started acting funky, but since then it's been perfect. In fact, I suspect many of the 'failures' is just android needing a factory reset to clear whatever crap out that causes these slowdowns (like used to be the case with Windows as well).

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 09:20:36 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on February 28, 2019, 09:14:43 pmTell that to Louis Rossman.Quote from: ruffy91 on February 28, 2019, 08:49:05 pmYour describing cost optimization. Not planned obsolescence.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartelSome of don't care about having the newest shiniest thing. Some of us don't buy new electronics every year. Some us actually want the things we buy to last as long as possible.My phone worked really well when I bought it. Forced updates have rendered pretty much unusable. It's loaded with shit I don't use or care about, and the basic functions, which worked flawlessly before are now nearly useless.

author: Electro Detective
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 11:06:15 pm
content: Foldable Shovels are available too, to bury those wank phones in the nearest landfill once they bend once too manyas per the engineered design 'buy another, nothing lasts forever, the new smarter model does so much more to keep you CONnected...'FWIW Foldable Shovels won't accept or require forced updates, and with a bit of tool oil smattered over it, will save you an upgrade, money saved to buy test gear, food...

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2019, 11:45:25 pm
content: Quote from: forrestc on February 28, 2019, 09:14:43 pmDefinitely a thing in the LED lighting world.The LED driver electronics always runs super hot to keep lifespan short.The LED itself would last 10+ years. Some even says LED Lifespan 50,000 hours on the box.But do you get that? nope, they fail in 1-3 years when the driver burns out.If they made them properly and got 10y lifespan their profit would drop to around a fifth.

author: Halcyon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 12:39:17 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 28, 2019, 11:45:25 pmThis is why I under-drive all the lights in living areas and bedrooms in my home using a dimmer. Rarely does the light need to be on 100% anyway.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 01:54:52 am
content: Quote from: ruffy91 on February 28, 2019, 08:49:05 pmThey can project that straight into their rectums. I need a phone, not an eye-fucking toy.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 02:39:35 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on February 28, 2019, 08:18:47 pmI'd love to hear of a real example of this. And don't say the Apple worn out battery CPU throttling issue either. That was not planned obsolescence. In reality, the intent was actually the opposite. It was a failure of communication rather than some comic book villain scheme to force people to replace their phone.Personally I think the concept of planned obsolescence is an appealing story people like to tell themselves to feel like they are "in the know" but in reality, it makes zero sense for a manufacturer in acompetitivemarket to try it. They would be destroyed by their competitors in just a couple of product cycles.In reality, the relentless march of progress and innovation makes old products feel obsolete, where given a fresh battery, and turn off software updates, they would probably continue to work just fine for years. You can't expect a company to release your phone, then just stop innovation and technological advance.Phones have entered the "good enough" phase, and you may no longer feel like $1000+ for the latest model is value for money, so many people are opting to continue with the old model. I am an example of this. My old iPhone 6S+ is still serving me great after a replacement battery. You can even see Apple is having problems with this now. Their sales growth and share price are down.

author: coppercone2
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 03:08:21 am
content: gluing a battery that decays into a hard to disassemble phone is something along those lines.Remote Control? Pretty easyWall Clock? You might need a ladderAndroid phones: Shit you might need a pocket knife to pop the back panel and be a bit careful not to scratch itApple? Plastics Technician I.Disassembling a watch is easier then this shit.Yea thats doable at home if you are fucking crazy taking knives, hot air guns, suction cups, to 1000$ equipment.Yea Joe Citizen is gonna go through this shit. People call repair men to reattach cabinet doors lol. Yank one little cable the wrong way and you have a insane solder job to fix.

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 03:49:09 am
content: Usually you get someone else to replace your battery. They are high end phones with enormous design constraints when it comes to the battery. Other high end androids are similarly hard to replace. It’s just a fact of engineering and design, not a conspiracy. If people who buy high end phones really really wanted removable batteries, then some company or another would make one and clean up all Apples customers. The fact that zero high end phones have removable batteries either tells you that either A:people just don’t care as much as you or B: All phone companies are run by lizard people who collude to keep people on the upgrade cycle.

author: edy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 04:38:49 am
content: Quote from: forrestc on February 28, 2019, 09:14:43 pmThe same is true with iPhones. I have never purchased an iPhone... I have typically inherited them from friends or colleagues who decided to upgrade to the latest and gave me their old (like 2 generations previous) phones, usually because of some minor flaw that I was able to fix (although being able to fix them is getting harder).The first one a few years ago was an iPhone 4S (at the time they were already on iPhone 6 or 7). This phone used the older 30-pin port and someone spilled tea on it, caused some corrosion and pins got messed up. They noticed they couldn't charge up the battery anymore and the phone died, was sitting around almost a year until I mentioned I like fixing things and they decided to give it to me. So I order a replacement battery and port for next to nothing on eBay (it's less than $2!!!!):https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-iPhone-4-4S-USB-Charging-Charger-Mic-Port-Dock-Connector-Flex-Cable-Repair/162746523234Next, someone gave me their old iPhone 5C which was actually perfectly fine. They had already upgraded I think to an iPhone 7 or 8 by that time and this was also no use to them. Most of these friends have no children so they have nobody to give the phone to play with, and also are not into tech, they just upgrade every contract cycle with their carriers and accumulate phone after phone.Then, recently I received an iPhone 6 (from the same person who gave me their broken iPhone 4S a few years back). This time the phone screen was messed up. I posted previously on this forum my experience with a faulty screen, some strange lines that appeared and moisture history (apparently phone was used in humid bathroom or after bath with wet fingers and the screen had lines going vertically just around where the home button was). Anyways, I opened it up and re-seated all the connectors, let it dry out completely, and now it is working perfectly again.So here we have iPhone 4S, 5C and 6... all working great still to this day, and I use them for different reasons but still can function just fine on any of them. And all several generations back from what current users are on. So the improvements are slowing down, there are not as many "breakthrough" type must-have technologies. I don't need a finger-print sensor, I don't care to have such a great camera on the phone. The screen resolutions/DPI are all Retina and actually the same on all 3 phones. I even made a video about it (see below).However, I am EXCITED about what the polymer screens can bring to the design flexibility (*pun intended*)in this space. No more are we confined to little rectangular flat slabs. This folding rectangle is just one application... I'm looking forward to other ideas. I don't know what is yet possible but based on my own history with devices, I am probably going to wait until I get some "hand-me-downs" from other people.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 05:06:47 am
content: Quote from: Psi on February 28, 2019, 11:45:25 pmIt's not planned obsolescence, it's cost reduction. Blame the majority of people who shop almost exclusively based on price. When almost everyone buys the cheapest one, everyone is faced with the choice of cut corners to cut cost or go out of business.In the few LED bulbs I've had fail, the LEDs themselves were pretty cooked too. I mostly buy good quality bulbs and they last.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 05:11:02 am
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 03:49:09 amI replaced the battery in my old iPhone 4 once, it took less than 10 minutes and cost $10. I don't understand why people talk about it like it's some kind of impossible task, IIRC it was two screws and then carefully peeling the battery off the double sided tape that held it.My current iPhone SE will be my last though if Apple stays on the current trajectory. The physical home button and compact form factor are major reasons I went with the iPhone. Between the stupid all-screen obsession, giant phones, dropping the headphone jack, and that hideous notch in the screen most of the newer models are a complete non-starter before we even talk price.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 09:59:13 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 02:39:35 amI already provided onehttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/foldable-phones-are-all-the-rage!-marketing-wank-or-practical/msg2232069/#msg2232069

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 10:05:31 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 03:49:09 amFirst of all, you're wrong. I have seen phones with removable batteries.Second, your conclusion that people don't care, does not follow. People do care, but they are limited by availability, and it's not the only factor when considering a phone.Why do all cameras have removable batteries?

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 10:11:12 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 02:39:35 amWhat about Apple bricking phones that had the home button replaced?What about Apple charging people close to a $1,000 to do a 5 minute repair caused by a bent pin, while pushing them to buy a whole new computer?Is that an "appealing story" to you?

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 10:50:22 pm
content: The bricking phones with 3rd party home button replacements was because the home button incorporates the thumb scanner and is included in the “Secure Enclave” where you can’t mess with the hardware in that part of the phone because it comprises security. If you don’t care about Apples dedication to secure hardware then choose another brand. There are plenty. Huawei is an example.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 11:03:14 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 02:39:35 amNeeding proprietary software to replace parts would be an example. It's not just Apple, others do it too. The narrative is that it's supposed to improve security for the user, but they seem unusually motivated to secure that specific area.

author: Mr. Scram
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 11:08:10 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 10:50:22 pmDoes that dedication also lead to not allowing off the shelf parts being swapped into computers? Or switching out the physical plug on hard drives, but keeping the protocol and electrics the same? The security excuse might apply in some cases, but it's a bit too conveniently persistent in places it doesn't make a lot of sense.

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 01, 2019, 11:21:41 pm
content: Quote from: Dubbie on March 01, 2019, 10:50:22 pmOkay bad example, but one of many. From what I understand the home button was failing really often. In that case Apple should at least have made it easier for people to repair it so that going to a 3rd party wasn't necessary.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 12:38:35 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on March 01, 2019, 11:21:41 pmI think that we need to clarify what *type* of planned obsolescence we're talking about.It used to be that obsolescence (in the cell market) was driven by the rapid advance of the technology being integrated into phones. In the example I gave in a previous reply, samsung went from a single core to 8 cores within 4 generations of the phone. With this rapid level of changes, a phone made 2 generators ago is 1/4 the speed, and isn't likely to run a lot of the newer apps. This is the march of technology. This one has pretty much run it's ground at this point.A second type of obsolescense is related to how long the product will last. Early on, cell phones were rather fragile. We put them into our pockets, bags, purses, throw them on dashes in blistering sun, leave them in freezing cars overnight, drop them on the ground - not to mention the toilet or ocean, charge them with questionable chargers, etc. etc. etc. and then wonder why they last so little time. Recent phones, especially the higher end ones, have started incorporating technology to make them more robust. It used to be half the phones I would see had a cracked screen. Nowadays, it's rare to see one. Many of them are waterproof nowadays, and so on. So manufacturers are getting better in this regard.Another type of obsolescence is related to the inability to repair these products. I think this is probably the worst one that manufacturers are guilty of, and it varies greatly between manfacturers. Apple is notoriously bad, others vary. But I don't call this 'planned obsolescence' per se - it's more a separate category in my mind. Batteries which have varying degrees of replaceablity is the biggest one in my mind, but most phones really do have a replaceable battery, it just may or may not be accessible to someone without the right tools.Finally, there's the 'it's not cool anymore' obsolescence which apple practices so well. Probably will end there without saying much more

author: timelessbeing
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 02:19:44 am
content: Quote from: forrestc on March 02, 2019, 12:38:35 amI disagree. Nokias come to mind. I used to use Blackberries at work, and those things would take an absolute beating. They were nearly indestructible.Now we are offered phones that bend when you put them in your back pocket, or go thermonuclear.Quote from: forrestc on March 02, 2019, 12:38:35 amIt's exactly what it is. They are designed with only a couple of years of use in mind.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 03:18:34 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on March 02, 2019, 02:28:57 amI have 3 Moto Es that have so far lasted close to 3 years mining cryptocurrency 24/7. Not typical when most phones tend to break down in 6 months to a year of that service, but pretty impressive for $20 Walmart specials.Also have a Le Pro 3 that's about 2.5 years old still in use as a phone and an iPad Air about 5 years old still in use with a Flir One and as a portable remote terminal, as well as several other phones and tablets that still work.

author: forrestc
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 05:31:05 am
content: Quote from: timelessbeing on March 02, 2019, 02:19:44 amI'm talking about smartphones in particular, but if you look back into the pre-smartphone era a similar pattern appeared... I have carried a cell phone since the 90's. I packed MicroTAC, then a StarTAC, then several others RAZR. Most of the early ones were amazingly failure prone, and you were lucky to make it to your two year upgrade before you broke the phone. And you were glad to lose 50% of the weight and 50% of the volume. Near the end when we started having more texting friendly devices such as the blackberry devices (which yes did email and some very limited internet as well), several vendors had figured it out and the phones were rather indestructible. Plus battery life got better and better. I think the final flip phone I had lasted me 3-4 years and I could go several days with a single charge.In the smartphone era the pattern repeated itself. The early smartphones were bad, you were lucky to make it one year without killing it let alone two. We're now reaching the point where if one takes care of the device and isn't after the latest greatest every time it is released you can easily get 3-4 years out of the flagship phones. You can also buy budget smartphones which will last shorter times but are also a lot less. I'm hopeful that one of the vendors will start figuring out that they can use a slightly slower processor and more efficient glass and get us some more battery life.Regardless, I guess my beef with the whole 'planned obsolescence' rant is the mistaken concept that cell phone companies necessarily try to build devices which only last a couple of years. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of the reason why phones only last a couple of years is that smartphones are some of the highest technology devices we build in volume, and they're being stuck into a hostile environment, and there aren't yet a lot of R&D cycles under everyone's belt to figure out how to make a reliable device which lasts longer. It also hasn't been very long that reliability has even been able to be a priority since the technology pace was so fast. Plus, the features which seem to drive the latest models (less bezel area, thinner/lighter/etc) tend to be ones which make them even more fragile.I really doubt you can find very many places in a modern flagship smartphone where choices were made to use a lower quality or cheaper device 'so it would wear out in 2 years'. Instead it's going to be more decisions like: "We need to make this as inexpensive as possible (so people will buy it and we can still make a profit), while making something useable and attractive (so people will buy it), and it has to last at least 2-3 years (so that our customers feel like they've gotten a good value and will buy their next phone from us)".

author: Dubbie
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: March 02, 2019, 06:09:29 am
content: Your last paragraph hits the nail in the head. I doubt there has ever been a decision made to engineer something worse than the best possible given the constraints.The whole planned obsolescence thing is repeated as though it is a fact. Unfortunately nothing in reality, once you dig past the click bait headline, points towards this being true.

author: stevelup
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 04, 2019, 08:56:21 am
content: Quote from: forrestc on March 02, 2019, 12:38:35 amYou should tell that to the NEC P3 that I one used to hammer a nail into a wall with

author: cloudscapes
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 02:34:17 am
content: I'm not upgrading until I can buy a möbius strip as a phone.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 09, 2019, 03:45:53 am
content: People want powerful processors, lots of features, thin, and huge screens, or at least the market wants people to want that. When you have a big, thin, powerful device there's not a lot of room for extra structure so it ends up being somewhat fragile. With the trend being toward edge to edge screens, there's no room for a protective bezel. Personally I think that trend is stupid, I'd rather have a thicker bezel to give me something to hold onto, I don't need a huge screen, I have other devices if I want to watch a movie or something on it. But I seem to be the minority or at least opposite of trends.