Water damage - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / projects

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 03:07:35 am
content: Sort of a technical subject so I posted here. A few pics of my son's iPod after swimming in a lake. I did not know right away so when tried to fix 3 weeks later, it was too late.I was also stunned to see how small the SMD parts were. And I mean small, I myself worked down to 0402 size but these puppies are 0101 or something! To give you an idea , one of the pics shows in a red oval the area where the other pics were taken.Have no idea what pick and place equipment was used to assemble the darn thing. Resistors and caps are barely visible by a good naked eye and look as dust particles. A reel of 1000 of these parts would probably not be larger than a beer cap.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 03:23:04 am
content: First thing you should do, the second you pull it from the water, is put it into a sealed container with RICE. Make sure you bury the Device into the rice. I told a friend of mine to do that with his NEW Iphone he had dropped in the river. 2 days later, he called to thank me. It worked.The rice sucks the moisture out of the device. I would place it in rice for a couple days, then take it out and clean off all the corrosion and gunk that is on it with Isopropyl Alcohol. Pray, then see if it turns on

author: Mr.B
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 03:30:47 am
content: Personally, I would give it a swim in IPA before putting it in the rice.And yes, the rice trick works.It will work better if you put the bag of iRice somewhere warm. 30 to 35 degrees C.If you are fortunate enough like me, you dump it in a bucket of silica gel desiccant.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 03:39:35 am
content: If my son had told me right away I would have just used silica gel bags, I have bunch of them.It was fun to tear it down anyway. Still trying to wrap my head around the WiFi antenna design used there.Interestingly , the battery was ok and held the charge from the last time but apparently had a internal fuse blown. I could measure voltage on the wires coming out from the battery into a small embedded regulator board but nothing was coming out of the board into the rest of the circuit.

author: DanielS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 04:07:45 am
content: Quote from: Bud on October 10, 2014, 03:07:35 amYes, SMD components in modern devices are getting ridiculously small. I had been having stability issues with my Nexus 7 for a while, opened it up to see if I could just try whacking a few extra capacitors in there to see if it might have been a voltage stability issue but when trying to find a spot to solder a cap on, I only found out that most caps in "convenient areas" are 0201 or smaller. I have no soldering iron tip fine enough for that and since that size is outside of my comfort zone, I have no plan to get one either.Quote from: Falcon69 on October 10, 2014, 03:23:04 amThat sounds like the fourth or fifth thing I would do...1- open the device and disconnect the battery - if water bridges between live battery traces and something else, circuitry may get fried or traces/components may get corroded2- blow-dry3- towel off whatever water is accessible4- maybe flush with IPA and dry again5- let it dry for a while (I would setup a hot box at about 45C instead of using rice)6- plug the battery back in and hope it works

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 04:20:46 am
content: Apple uses paper dust gaskets on those black and gold connectors and if those get wet they expand and the connections go bad. If you peel them off they go back together nicely. When I gave my iphone a bath the display worked for a few minutes, then died. I had a hunch. So i got the tool to take it apart, cleaned everything with electrowash, dried it in the sun, took off those gaskets, and it has been working fine since. I have noticed however that since Iphone 6 came out my 4 has been exhibiting lots of lets say sudden onset glitchieness. I wonder........

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 04:33:34 am
content: It's a conspiracy. Apple sends a signal to your 4 and makes it act that way, in hopes you break down and cry and go buy a new 6.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2014, 02:19:26 pm
content: Quote from: DanielS on October 10, 2014, 04:07:45 amI disagree with both of you. The first thing should to disconnect the battery as DanielsS said. THEN give it a good bath indistilled(demineralized) water. This will rinse out any minerals, salts, and other contaminants from the water it was dropped into the first place. Pure water is not conductive and not corrosive. Even trace amounts of salts and minerals in lake/river/tap/bottled/toilet(!) water changes that dramatically for the worse. Populated PCBs are routinely washed in water in production. Don't be afraid to do this, it is important and effective. It is more effective if you can disassemble the item first.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 01:53:06 am
content: iPod has to be disassembled to get access to the battery, and the battery is actually soldered to the logic board, so no easy way to unplug the battery. Opening iPod case is a chore, they used a damn good adhesive to glue the gorilla glass to the bottom piece. The glue softens when heated so using a heatgun or hot air station helps but need to act quickly , the glue hardens again when cools down.

author: valvedude
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 02:50:06 am
content: Quote from: Falcon69 on October 10, 2014, 03:23:04 amlooks real bad

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 03:12:49 am
content: I mean this as a genuine question -- is there any quality evidence in favour of the rice method? Like, better than doing all the sensible stuff (unplug battery immediately) and just placing it on something warm for a few days? Expecting rice to act as a desiccant when all dessicants get saturated in normal air unlessverycarefully stored (foil packaging like those silica gel phone rescue pouches) seems ill-advised.Obviously, flushing with distilled water and so on is even better, I'm just trying to establish whether the rice method iscompleterubbish.

author: DanielS
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 03:47:30 am
content: Quote from: rs20 on October 11, 2014, 03:12:49 amUnplugging the device is an absolutely priority step since no drying method will ever be fast enough to remove water before it damages traces or components if water did make it that far inside the device.Once the battery is out, you have all the time in the world to decide how to proceed next. The cleaning/rinsing step depends mostly on how clean or dirty the water the device got dropped in was. If the pool used salt-based chlorination, you would want to flush the salt out with demineralized/distilled water or ~70% IPA.Another advantage to opening the device to disconnect the battery is you can actually inspect how deep inside the water has gotten to decide how to proceed from there.

author: Falcon69
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 04:07:08 am
content: I don't know rs20All I can say is it DID work for my friend. Whether it was a coincidence that it dried out or that the rice helped it dried out, I don't know, but it worked. He put the battery back in after 2 days, and It turned right on, no problems.Obviously, the original poster has it even worse with that IPOD, but it was the only suggestion I could give.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 06:09:59 am
content: We have an emergency rice ziplock bag for such events. So far 3 devices have been saved with the bag.It does work if you take the battery out immediately and put it in the bag soonish.I probably should replace the rice, maybe when device 4 enters the bag

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 06:35:32 am
content: Open bag, place rice in pyrex dish and place in oven at 110C ( 220F) for 2 hours, then pour into a pressure cooker and seal, then leave to cool then place back in the bag. That will dry it quite well.Myself I have a 5kg bucket of silica gel crystals that I use. If you do not want to use rice get a bag of crystal sand cat littler, and dry in the oven like above then place in a sealed tupperware container for later use.

author: rs20
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 09:03:08 am
content: Right, I guess what's missing (as I'm sure you're already aware) is whether the rice is a necessary (/anywhere near optimal) part of the solution. You might have had success unplugging the phone, removing the battery, placing it in rice, and doing a handstand -- that doesn't quite prove that the handstand is even slightly helpful. Intuitively, if I want to dry a flannel, I'd expect greater success sitting it on something hot than pouring rice all over it.The vapor pressure of water doubles from 23 to 35 degrees C, which I think means a phone warmed to 35 degrees, just sitting in open air, will dryat leastas fast as a 23 degrees phone placed inperfectdessicant, since diffusion rate is a function of partial vapor pressure gradient (not to mention temperature).It seems like an easy thing to test - little box, little bit of cloth inside that is soaked with water, couple of plates to detect when it's dry. Subject to many different dessication ideas. Come to useful conclusion.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 10:33:00 am
content: My routine is: immediately open device and remove battery. Then at more leisure rinse well in plain tap water. If the liquid was something like soft drink, scrub with hot water, brush and detergent, then rinse again. Optionally a final rinse in distilled water, then blow dry with compressed air jet. This removes all the water in about 10 seconds flat. Even from underneath BGA packs.Finally, let the device sit for a few hours on something warm. That was one good use for bulky old CRT monitors.If you have a vacuum chamber, that's a good way to remove moisture too.Edit: rice is for eating. Shame to ruin it with contaminated electronics.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 11:03:03 am
content: Anyone tried submerging the device in a large bag of cinnamon instead of rice.If you've tried to eat a teaspoon of cinnamon you know just how much it sucks up moisture and how fast at room temp (compared to rice)

author: Jorpy
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 11:04:07 am
content: I once dropped my Galaxy Nexus in the toilet. Luckily it was after I flushed! Anyways, the phone turned off as normally (with a pop-up saying it was turning off). I took it up, dried the water on the outside and behind the backcover off with a towel, turned it on and it worked fine. I did however pull out the battery and put the phone and battery in a bowl of rice when I got home. I was quite positively surprissed! Did not expect this from a device with no IP rating!

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 11:08:31 am
content: the surface tension of water and the air already inside the device means that it takes some time for the water to replace the air inside. As long as you pull the device out right away the amount of water inside will minimal to non existent.

author: Bud
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2014, 03:16:06 pm
content: There is no way for an average person to quickly open an iPod , and probably many other handhelds for that matter. You need to learn form youtube videos how to do it, have appropriate tools to just remove the glass part, then you need a micro Philips screwdriver to remove the shield that covers the battery and logic board, then you need a soldering iron to unsolder the battery.A set of plastic tools that is sold on eBay was useless to me, they all broke within 2 minutes, the only thing that worked was a soft plastic suction cap with a metal ring, with multiple attempts and patience I was able to lift the glass on one of the edges pulling the suction cap up and inserted a piece of plastic in the gap, then used my hot air pencil to heat the glass to soften the adhesive and worked around the perimeter of the screen. There are 100 ways to break the screen glass and/or damage the aluminum base when doing this.