Dell using refurbished parts for repair. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: JacobFromDenmark
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 08:33:31 am
content: Hello eevblogMy name is Jacob and I am totally new on here.I am an electrician by trade and now I am studying electrical engineering at DTU in Denmark.An important tool in my day to day is a laptop, and I finally saved up to get myself a portable beast from Dell, until now I have only used the big thinkpads from Lenovo.When I got my new Dell it did not work, long story short : Dell wanted to use a more than one year old refurbished motherboard to repair my brand new laptop. It was even another revision with visual difference from the motherboard that came with my laptop.I told them heck no, and said that I wanted my money back.Am I overreacting ?Is it a normal to use refurbished parts when repairing under warrenty ?Looking forward to hearing from you all.

author: bingo600
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 09:01:21 am
content: Apple just lost in DK court , not being able to claim "new/same" for a phone w. refurbished parts.They dropped taking the case to next higher court instance.This ought to help you getting your money back./Bingo

author: cs.dk
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 09:20:20 am
content: Hi, and welcome to the forumYou should get your money back, or a brand new laptop. No doubt.http://borsen.dk/nyheder/generelt/artikel/1/336404/apple_taber_retssag_brugt_iphone_maa_ikke_saelges_som_ny.htmlThis bit might interest you;Quote

author: JacobFromDenmark
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: December 26, 2016, 09:27:22 am
content: Thank you both!I am glad to get your inputs.

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2016, 10:09:04 pm
content: Using refurbished parts for repairs is standard. I don't have any numbers but we used a lot.I have no idea what visuals you would expect to see from a one year old motherboard, when do you even see it? Older revisions may be possible, but it is probably not a difference that you'd notice. Dell are very good at using new part numbers for the slightest change in a part. If i recall correctly the difference between part number W347K and W348K is if the hard drive is mounted in a 9th or 10th generation caddy. But the part number is printed on the disk and the caddy has its own part number. So don't go too much on revisions.I believe I can say with some authority that if someone would want to repair your computer and make it worse, it would be hell to pay. I once nearly had my credentials revoked because the teacher at the course I was attending thought I was to young to have that level of certification. Only saved it because one of the tech executives stepped in and we only were like four in the entire country at that level and they couldn't just replace me with the snap of a finger. They can get really touchy on quality of service issues.What exactly is it you feel would get worse?Cheers

author: jonatanrullman
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: December 27, 2016, 10:18:35 pm
content: Small addendum. I asked a friend who used to be a service tech for Apple. He says their motherboards never said if they were new or refurbished but he estimated that about one in 50 did he notice that is must have been refurbished.I can't remember how many. But I mostly worked on servers and I would say that it was more than one in 50. But then again, server motherboards are much more expensive and thus worth refurbishing.Cheers

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 04:28:52 pm
content: Umm, what's the problem with refurb parts?It's not at all unusual for manufacturers to use refurb parts for warranty, nor is it unusual for manufacturers to have several versions of a board.As long as it doesn't degrade the performance of your machine there is no issue.For Dell Warranty you need to be sure the tech reprograms the serial number into your machine, sets the model type to enable/disable prots you may or may not have, clears the TPM and flashes the current BIOS revision.

author: dferyance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 05:37:58 pm
content: Quote from: CJay on December 28, 2016, 04:28:52 pmThere really is no reason to trust the refurb parts. There is a reason why used computing equipment costs less than new; you are taking additional risk. A refurb motherboard could have ESD damage, heat damage, flex damage and still pass any tests they run on it but be unstable later. Sure new parts can have flaws too but at least they are manufactured in a semi-controlled environment as well as the chips going through per-part testing as opposed to a basic system test.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 28, 2016, 06:09:58 pm
content: I've worked in a repair facility that reworked boards for HP warranty, there were many tens of thousands pounds worth of BGA rework robots, test stations and all with the purpose of reworking to 'as new' standards, if there was any doubt of the quality of a board it was scrapped, histories were kept of boards and if they failed again, it was scrapped, the boards came direct from HP and were *only* supplied to HP.I have also worked as an HP, Dell, Lenovo warranty tech and I can hand on heart say, there have been no issues I have seen with manufacturer refurbed boards.Similar to HP, Dell and Lenovo will upgrade, not downgrade, if there is a supply problem so even though the board is a different version, it should be as good or better specification.I will agree that there are many issues with 'aftermarket' 'refurbs' which are usually just pulls, one such 'quality guaranteed' board I personally rejected had leaking capacitors that were worse than the one I was replacing.YMMV, I think the OP is overreacting if the board is being replaced by Dell.

author: dferyance
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 06:08:40 pm
content: Well if all refurb is done like that, it is pretty impressive. I wouldn't have too many concerns over that compared to new. Refurbished can be used to mean many things and often times it is just the same as used or returned. I had a motherboard from a company (that surprisingly isn't in business anymore) that was really unreliable and pretty much didn't work. After their support sent me a new one, it did the exact same thing as the old. The trick is it would power up but the system would run very unreliably. I always suspected they sent me the same one in return or they had a common defect that would pass whatever refurbish tests they ran. I switched to a different brand that had the same chipset and it ran solid. It depends very much on how much the company cares about quality and not cutting corners.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 29, 2016, 06:46:46 pm
content: Quote from: dferyance on December 29, 2016, 06:08:40 pmWhen it comes to household names, they take it very seriously.When it comes to corner cutting compinent distributors, I have had very similar experiences to you. One board did the rounds three times, we marked it with UV pen the first time it went back as the supplier had a reputation for recycling returns until someone didn't complain.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2017, 01:52:48 pm
content: Quote from: JacobFromDenmark on December 26, 2016, 08:33:31 amIMHO, if you bought a new product, then you deserve all-new product. So if it's DOA or fails within, say, a month, you deserve a complete device swap for new.On the other hand, if we're talking about a repair done a year after purchase, a refurb part is fair.This agrees with common practice in many companies and sellers, and with some countries' laws.That said, I've heard repeatedly over the years that most manufacturers' refurb testing is actually more extensive than the new product testing, so there's not necessarily any reason to doubt OEM refurb parts. (Third-party is a different matter altogether.)

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 09:47:21 am
content: Quote from: tooki on January 01, 2017, 01:52:48 pmThis, I think, is European law, if it fails within 30 (28?) days of purchase you're entitled to refund or replacement, after that you have to let them make reasonable effort to repair before you can reject it as unfit for purpose and get a refund/replacement.If you buy on a credit card then you get extra protection in the UK at least (and possibly further afield) as the card comapny has to accept a portion of liability (I had an unpleasant experience with tumble drier manufacturer who shall remain forever named as Hoover which was resolved by the card company in my favour)EU law also gives you rights which to a large degree make 'extended warranty' a waste of money as your rights actually give you pretty much the same for free (excluding accidental damage of course).

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 10:06:14 am
content: Quote from: CJay on January 03, 2017, 09:47:21 amhttp://bigstory.ap.org/article/56e308e514404056825e8f4e673fb991/denmark-apple-loses-court-case-over-refurbished-phone

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 10:34:03 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on January 03, 2017, 10:06:14 amThat's missing quite a bit of information, how long from purchase date before the complaints were made, was he told it was to be replaced with a *new* phone, does Danish law state that a replacement like for like item has to be new or is it reasonable to replace with refurbished after some period of time?It sounds more similar to 'allow the supplier to make reasonable efforts to repair before rejecting the goods' portion of the law, I.E. they made several complaints which Apple tried to resolve before throwing in the towel and rejecting the phone as unfit for purpose (something I'd say was the case even for a fully functioning iphone but that's a completely different argument)

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 11:15:24 am
content: Quote from: CJay on January 03, 2017, 10:34:03 amafair, he sent it in for repairs a year after he bought itI think the law is roughly that if they fail to repair something under warranty they should have given him a brand new phone or a full refund

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 11:18:53 am
content: Quote from: langwadt on January 03, 2017, 11:15:24 amThat'd be quite unusual but if that's the law...I suppose it depends when the first complaint was made and what offer of reparation they offered too

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 04:27:40 pm
content: http://www.thelocal.dk/20161028/why-apple-is-taking-some-random-danish-dude-to-courtTo be honest, if Danish law doesn't allow for a refurb when something fails a year later, then the law is excessive IMHO. If it had failed after a month, yeah, give him a brand new one, but a year later??

author: langwadt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 05:43:03 pm
content: Quote from: tooki on January 03, 2017, 04:27:40 pmafaik 2 years warranty* is EU law, and if they can't fix a fault in reasonable time they have to refund or replace with new*first 6 months the burden of proof is on the seller, last 18 months buyer. So since it was after a year Apple must have acknowledged that it was their fault

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 06:00:41 pm
content: I bought a laptop from a distributor, and it was partially broken out of the box. The retailer wanted to send it for repair but the manufacturer said that because it was just purchased and broke within 1-2 weeks, the retailer should replace it with a new one, once the manufacturer got the broken laptop and verified that it actually is broken. So I got a brand new laptop. No problems at all.I don't know how the Finnish law is written in this regard, nor do I know what is written in the European law about this, but what I do know is that this is the way it has been done for the last 25 years, as far as I can recall.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 03, 2017, 06:10:21 pm
content: Quote from: langwadt on January 03, 2017, 05:43:03 pmhttp://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htmBut nowhere does it say they can't repair with refurb parts.

author: JacobFromDenmark
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 03:32:03 pm
content: My computer was brand new and never worked, dell wanted to give me a refurbished motherboard.If I wanted a refurbished computer I would have bought one, they sell them at a discount on their own site. I feel that, by doing that, Dell admits that a refurbished computer is not worth as much as a new one. So i see no reason why i should accept a refurbished motherboard in a brand new computer that was dead on arrival.Question : who would make a revision change on a PCB if it was not somehow needed or at least making it better ?I will attach pictures of the broad that came with my computer and the older refurbished board that Dell wanted to give me as a replacement.Notice that there are some shielding missing on the old refurbished motherboard.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 03:56:57 pm
content: Quote from: JacobFromDenmark on January 05, 2017, 03:32:03 pmSometimes manufacturers update the Motherboard Revision number after they have upgraded another component ( lets call it a WiFi card ) and verified that they are compatible. Hence the name revision. (re-visit or take a look at it again)Same stuff happens in software development, a lot of code gets a new revision number though no code has changed. It's just a way of tracking that all new stuff added or changed is still compatible with the old core.

author: CJay
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 05:46:23 pm
content: Quote from: JacobFromDenmark on January 05, 2017, 03:32:03 pmI missed that the machine was DOA, of course it's not right, Dell should have replaced the entire machine if you reported it less than 28 days after purchase, you've every right to be upset in that case.If you bought direct from them I believe Dell, along with most other manufacturers have a DOA procedure that allows you to reject the machine and request a new one, if it was a retail machine (bought from a store) then the store should also do that.My apologies for not acknowledging that information in your post

author: eugenenine
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 06:25:49 pm
content: Sometimes you have to go back through the sales droid that made the sale for a DOA item often times the first level support droids can't figure out DOA on the script.That being said I usually have good luck with Dell up until last year when they sent me three warranty refurb tablets in a row which all had bad USB ports. I then went through their social media team asking how they can refurbish/test these out of they won't charge unless you hold the cable a certain way.Still not as bad as Samsung who shipped back the same bluray HT 4 times with no trouble found.

author: slicendice
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: January 05, 2017, 07:12:03 pm
content: So what if the parts are refurbished? As long as the manufacturer can give me full guarantee time span and the part has same or better specs as the original broken part had.The customer saves time and the company saves money, which helps them to sell cheaper products in the long run, thus the customer will also save money in the long run. Nothing wrong with that.Less waste = more savings for everyone!