Power conditioners - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 04:20:52 pm
content: guys. I'm currently looking for a power filter for my audio amplifier at home. Power products in the head-fi community is really sketchy. tons of snake oils. I'm not really a believer of expensive power cables and stuff although i do seem to hear some difference.I'm not a EE guy so i'm thinking can someone analyse the furman PCB design and provide some opinions? It's not that i'm having issues with my audio but i do hear pop and clicks when an appliance adjacent is being power on. Does a power conditional resolve that issue? thanks!http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE

author: And!
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 06:45:28 pm
content: VFI (double conversion UPS) with sine output will be cheaper and more effective than voodoo-audio based on snake oil audiophile power conditioner...

author: walshms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 06:54:04 pm
content: Quote from: smoothtalker on October 08, 2013, 04:20:52 pmThis doesn't seem like it's going to be helpful. Not because it's snake oil, but because it probably won't address your issue.They claim this is a transient surge suppressor, and it certainly looks like one, with a bit of inductive and capacitive smoothing, and a voltage clamp. It won't help with sags, though, and that's more likely to be your issue.

author: madshaman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 07:02:02 pm
content: Wouldn't sags more likely originate from the amp's power supply circuirty?

author: walshms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 07:03:17 pm
content: Quote from: madshaman on October 08, 2013, 07:02:02 pmOn large amplitude swings, yes. But the OP talked about pops when switching adjacent appliances/circuits on.

author: walshms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 07:14:54 pm
content: Quote from: And! on October 08, 2013, 06:45:28 pmYou're not serious, right? An online (double-conversion) UPS is extremely costly, especially for an audio system. It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a pin.

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 08:36:38 pm
content: Anyone knows of any real power conditional that improves the AC mains?I look at monster, furman, etc, their power products seem to be just surge protector and does nothing much to improving AC power quality.Those isolation transformer as they claim are expensive! (Also have no idea what they do to the mains) it's Crazy thousands of dollars

author: Phaedrus
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 08, 2013, 08:47:38 pm
content: You can do a fair bit to quell transients and such using a mix of X caps, Y caps, common and differential mode chokes, and MOVs. Won't help against long-term sags or surges though. It's basically a passive line conditioner sans the expensive isolation transformer. Considering a decent audio amp should have it's own isolated power supply anyway, I don't think you really need it.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 04:54:57 am
content: Quote from: walshms on October 08, 2013, 07:14:54 pmYou can often find a used one (bad batteries) for cheap or even free. With luck, it might even work as a line conditioner with no batteries connected.If the amp is any good, there's going to be a fair amount of filtering on the mains input. Most likely the problem is low level wiring picking up the EMI. A modern amp is going to have optical input, which is your best bet at fixing EMI issues.I saw a teardown of a whole house "power conditioning unit" and it's nothing more than a pair of motor run caps and MOVs, with each set going from each hot to neutral. Motor run caps are very cheap from an HVAC supply store and can be worth a try. (I suggest a 10uF to start with. The 370V units are good for 120V line and the 440V good for 240V line.)

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 08:00:35 pm
content: 'Plops' originating from equipment being switched on sounds more like interference coupling into the audio wiring to me. Maybe try to make the wires as short as possible. Clamp-on ferrites may also help. Equipment has proper mains filtering nowadays in order to pass EMC testing.

author: IanJ
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 08:50:04 pm
content: Look up CVT Constant Voltage Transformers as a possible element to cleaning up and regulating mains AC. They are used offshore a lot to clean up noisy, fluctuating AC supply's due to local heavy SCR switching etc.Just a thought.Ian.

author: walshms
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 09, 2013, 10:03:45 pm
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 09, 2013, 08:00:35 pmYes, this is certainly possible too; easy enough to eliminate, though, by separating the wiring a sufficient distance.

author: macboy
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 01:21:27 pm
content: Quote from: mojo-chan on October 10, 2013, 09:34:12 amI know you are joking but you are not far off. In some cases where isolated very pure sine power is needed, they use a motor with precision speed controller, a big flywheel, and a generator (or dynamo if you prefer). The flywheel provides excellent rejection of high-frequency junk on the mains!

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 02:54:00 pm
content: Quote from: IanJ on October 09, 2013, 08:50:04 pmAh.. A constant voltage generator seems like the best solution instead of fancy power conditioner. But they do sound expensiveQuote from: mojo-chan on October 10, 2013, 09:34:12 amHahaha I like that proposal.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 02:56:04 pm
content: This is what I use on my Hi-Fi to stop noise from my computer's and powerline adapters.http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surge-suppressor-units/0239472/A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 03:00:32 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 10, 2013, 02:56:04 pmThese "surge" devices always make me paranoid. They seem to be just some MOV and fuses. I'm using a UK plug and its already fused at the outlet. Double fused at my power strip. Triple fused at my audio device. I had enough of fuses. HahahaI'm hoping to find something that improve AC mains. Like voltage stabilizer. But all of them seems really expensive. Furman has some.May I know what's the difference between asymmetrical and symmetrical attenuation?? I saw it in the data sheet

author: Towger
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 03:09:33 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 10, 2013, 02:56:04 pmDid it come with the 'glow in the dark' feature?

author: rsjsouza
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 10, 2013, 04:31:19 pm
content: In Brazil several "voltage stabilizers" were commonplace with the PC boom in the 90's - most of them were really terrible and did not react quickly enough to prevent a major instability in the end equipment.However, over the years I used a few from APC and tend to trust their products. Several arehere.

author: G7PSK
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 03:29:02 pm
content: Quote from: smoothtalker on October 10, 2013, 03:00:32 pmThis one actually has a decent filter network inside it. I will try to get it apart and take some photo's.

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 11, 2013, 07:37:10 pm
content: Quote from: G7PSK on October 11, 2013, 03:29:02 pmAwesome! showdown against furman AC-210AE in my first post. AC-210AE is relatively inexpensive as compared to higher end Furman and PS Audio

author: And!
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 12, 2013, 12:38:33 pm
content: Quote from: walshms on October 08, 2013, 07:14:54 pmDouble conversion UPS will be surprisingly cheap compared to the voodoo-audio stuff...You will get a sine wave with frequency and the shape independent of the input voltage quality.If you want to continue this madness, an isolation transformer can be used on output of VFI UPS...

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2013, 02:13:00 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on October 09, 2013, 08:00:35 pmIf the source is digital, use an optical connection.

author: smoothtalker
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2013, 03:11:58 pm
content: Quote from: NiHaoMike on October 13, 2013, 02:13:00 amMy cables are all pretty short. longest is a 3m power cable to my power strip, follow by a 2m power cable to my dac/amp . both are Belden 19364 shielded power cableshmmm.. i not sure what is optical disadvantages. I've not research on that! but I'm using a laptop to my USB DAC with wasapi.