how much sould a hobbiest spend on a multimeter - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / testgear

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:32:43 pm
content: hello guys im new herei have read the rules of the forumand have searched for a multimeter in all places and have read a lot of topics and seen a lot of videosand then i have purchased the UNI-T UT-61E and it arrived dead sadlyand the seller is giving me a hard time on returning my money back on ebaybut now i was thinking again on the multimeterhow much would you pay for a multimeteri'll be using it with some microcontrolers and some small electronicsi might use it for some high voltage but not that muchi guess RMS would be helpful if i have done a circuit for ac lowering voltagesso again i was thinking about the UNI-T UT71A its almost for 100$ but i haven't seen any tear downs but i guess its not that good in safetythe UNI-T felt good (UT61E) it was solid and i guess i liked it until it didn't turn on so i shipped it backshould i consider a used fluke ?usb would be nice.i've read too that the uni-t is better than Mastechand what about amprobeis paying 50 dollars for a good (kinda) multimeter enough ?or should i go up to 100$i live in israel and local stores are way too expensivethank you

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:45:33 pm
content: Fluke 17B might be a good option. Very accurate for the price point, adequate input protection for hobbyist use, and not too expensive.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:48:39 pm
content: i've thought about the fluke but my main question isis paying that much for a thing is an overkill ?edit:the 17b doesn't have RMSso for me its like any other multimeter and its resolution is low too

author: LektroiD
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 01:57:38 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 01:48:39 pmNot at all. If you plan to have the electronics hobby for just a few weeks, then yes it is too much to spend. If you plan to spend your whole life doing electronics, then nothing is too much. In the scale of things, the Fluke 17B is not expensive. Buy junk meter and you'll have to buy twice. I guarantee you won't regret buying.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:16:02 pm
content: I thought we were recommending the Brymen BM257 for the $100 category.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:20:31 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 01:32:43 pmYou can get a reasonable beginner meter for $50.Don't spend more on a meter if it means missing out on other stuff, like a decent oscilloscope or soldering iron.Two $50 meters is likely more useful than one $100 meter.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:27:10 pm
content: thank you very muchwell i guess i'll forget about UNI-T UT71Aand get the UNI-T UT61Ei don't really need an osciliscope that much so i got the DSO 138 (diy kit)it was a lot of fun and it gives the signal shape (kinda)and for solder i was thinking about getting an SMD station

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:42:02 pm
content: Also remember Ebay offers you all the protection you need as a buyer. So whether the seller wants to work with you or not, you can always get your money back.It sucks for sellers if the buyer is dishonest, but if you have a real issue of the meter not working, you should be able to return it and get your money back.

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 02:49:53 pm
content: Agree, a UT-61E from ebay should get you going.After a while you will realize what functions you really need and use and can make a wise second purchase based on that.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 03:02:13 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on May 22, 2015, 02:42:02 pmbut when do i get my money back ?i've sent the seller a photo of the multimeter not working and shipped it to him and gave him a tracking numberhe now says that he can't track the number and want a websitedo i get my money before the seller gets his item back ?

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:28:52 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 03:02:13 pmShort answer is no.Sounds like this particular seller is going to be very difficult. For example, you'll send it back, s/he will say they didn't get it, and you'll have to get eBay involved before your deadline expires (show whatever proof they require of you, such as tracking information, ...). They should rule in your favor given the information you provided. It will take a little time though, as you have to go through the steps per eBay's rules, so read them carefully.As per meters:In the $50 category, I'd recommend you take a serious look at the Uni-TUT-139C. It has a lot of features for the money, and decent input protection for it's price (you'd be OK to use it on mains). 6000 counts, but that's usually all you actually need for the majority of measurements.In the $100 category (bit over), I'd recommend looking at the BrymenBM257s(.pdf). Also a 6000 count meter, but better built and safer for example (definitely safe for mains work).

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 04:29:01 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 03:02:13 pmIt's been a while, but when you go to leave a Feedback. If the feedback is negative more options happen. And you get into this conflict resolution mode. Just read carefully, and if you aren't able to resolve the dispute with the seller, you should be able to return and get your money back.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 05:50:37 pm
content: I would follow nanofrog's advice. The UT139C is a much better built meter than the UT61E. The UT139C has proper input protection and will not get killed by a static shock on the input leads. The UT139C will also keep you safer should you decide to use the multimeter on mains. It can be purchased for $50 shipped to your door. As Dave said, it would probably be better to get two $50 meters than one $100 class meter if that is what you can afford. If you can spend more and want one really good meter, then the Brymen BM257s is around $135 shipped to your door.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:13:38 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 22, 2015, 05:50:37 pmIf say $200 in funds are available, I'd opt for aBM257x+UT-139C, which would leave ~$15 for a good set ofsilicone insulated leads+probe endsfor the UT-139C, which is just doable (don't expect much of included leads for a $43.68 meter; ones that come in the BM257s linked arethese). Then add additional lead ends at a later time (alligators, mini hooks, ...).* All the links are free shipping to Israel.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 07:25:05 pm
content: i don't really think i need two multimeters for now atleastbut the display in the ut139c is not that good because it's without a paragraph for voltage or resistanceand it's resolution is only 6000 vs 22000i dont think i'll need that electrical field stuff and last is the usb connection im going to lose tooso what do you think is it worth getting the ut139c over the ut61eedit :if the main deference's are the back light and auto power offi've seen a hack for both but i don't know if it's worth it to open the multimeter and risk the screen not getting back in placeedit #2what about VICTOR 70Cit seems good and got USB too

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:12:57 pm
content: If you are a beginner and are asking for advice, then listen to the advice. If you know what you want and just want confirmation for your own personal decision, well you won't get that here. Buy what you want if you know what you want.The UT139C is much better built. It doesn't have a bar graph, no big deal. It doesn't have a PC connection? That could be a deal breaker if you know that you need one. 22000 count vs 6000 count? In my experience, and the experience of others, the UT61E drifts with time and that extra resolution will not be accurate. For general use, if you don't need the PC connection, the UT139C is a better buy and will not die from over voltage on the inputs like the UT61E has done for a number of people.In the end get what you want, but don't ask people for advice if you don't want it.

author: larsdenmark
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:25:07 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 07:25:05 pmIf you wish to fiddle with AC then UT139C is the way to go (on a budget). 6000 counts is plenty for AC work (FLUKE 87V is a 6000 count meter!).If you wish to work with DC then the 61C (or even a 61A) may be better than the 139C as the 61 series sport a bar graph and has USB connection. The 61C has back light and comes with a temperature probe, but it is NOT True RMS.Once you have spent some time with your first (working) multimeter you will figure out where the limitations are for YOUR work (accuracy, precision, speed, safety, etc.).

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:27:31 pm
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 22, 2015, 08:12:57 pmthank you i'll get the ut139c theni was sharing my opinion not that i don't want advice but i really want my first multimeter to be perfect so i'll see if i can save some money for the brymen because it seems as the best one for me but Dave said it can be gotten for about 100 $ (in a video) but on ebay its 130$again thank you very much for the help mateif you know a good place i can get it please tell me

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:31:25 pm
content: Quote from: larsdenmark on May 22, 2015, 08:25:07 pmwell im better off with DCi wont use AC alot because all i do is DCso for now i'll order the UNI-T UT139Cor if i found a good deal i'll get the brymenthank you

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:45:03 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 08:27:31 pmDoesn't really exist (always a compromise, even at the top end). And especially not going to happen at $50.As per where to buy, click the following link:Brymen BS257s(previously provided BTW). The seller is actually a member here (iloveelectronics), and takes very good care of his customers. Yes, they're a bit over $100. But keep in mind that comes with upgraded test leads and free shipping (others may be around the same price, but don't include the same test leads IIRC; standard would be PVC).Might seem a small detail, but it makes a difference in cost and performance of the lead set (silicone is much more flexible than PVC). Think freshly cooked wet spaghetti noodle vs. wet string that's been frozen level of difference in flexibility after you get a little age on the PVC.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 08:58:53 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 22, 2015, 08:45:03 pm

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:20:39 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 08:58:53 pmMore money than the UT-139C, yet it still uses glass fuses (see photo;source). You can do better for less (UT-139C has ceramic fuses, which take a lot more energy to explode than glass), so I'd skip it. This is what we've been on about regarding input protection.Or just save up for a bit longer and get a BM257s as your first meter. Then get the UT-139C as a secondary, or vice versa (as previously mentioned, you'll want a second meter at least for simultaneous measurements).

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:36:44 pm
content: Quote from: nanofrog on May 22, 2015, 09:20:39 pmi guess i'll get the UNI-T and if i felt it's not enough i'll get the brymen that would be the best solutionany other recommendation on accessories ?i loved the transistor tester that came with the uni-t ut61eas far as now im just getting silicone leads and the multimeter

author: ez24
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 09:38:24 pm
content: If you get this - see if you can get English instructions. Mine came only with Chinesehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Uni-T-UT139C-True-RMS-Digital-Multimeter-with-Temperature-NCV-Backlight-/171213085325?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dd185a8dso far happy with it - just wish I knew some more about some of the functions. For example I had to figure out how to make it buzz on ohms (again no instructions)For me I want a meter that uses AA or AAA batteries, 9v are too expensive. This uses 2 -AA and has auto off.

author: nanofrog
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 10:21:21 pm
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 09:36:44 pmMeter, leads, connector end as you discover you need them (hooks & alligator/crocodile clips that will fit the end of the leads I linked tend to be rather useful).Those little transistor checkers are a gimmick at best, and can be downright dangerous (voltage at inputs present on the tester socket). So anything above the bottom dregs skips it. And there are ways of doing this without one of those stupid transistor checker sockets if you search.Quote from: ez24 on May 22, 2015, 09:38:24 pmDirect download forUT-139A/B/C Manual in English.FWIW, it's on the English site (http://www.uni-trend.com/en/), along with the newer products it seems.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:17:48 pm
content: The problem is most internet gurus have long lost ability to make judgments regarding average beginner hobbyist. More importantly the noobs do not realize this and gladly tramp down that primrose path. Things like $10 fuses, bar graphs, 5 digit resolution are really of limited use for most beginners (and many professionals too).For my hobby and limited semi-professional work $15 UT136B with very accurate and sensitive AC, 10mhz frequency, high resolution capacitance, and very responsive beeper has no competition. A fraction the size and much more convenient than my Fluke gathering dust on the shelf.To be honest however it's the $5 DT830D meters scattered around that get most use. Even smaller than the UTI but also fast and loud continuity. Signal generator feature a much used bonus. The fact I could get 3 for the cost of the UTI also a plus. Or a hundred for cost of one Fluke should the notion take. For now half dozen will do.Everybody has their own idea what's best. And try to push it in these threads. For some the more expensive the better regardless of true value or features. It is amusing to see row after row of thousand dollar lab grade instruments in the background but rarely any point. Kinda like vintage with those crazy poor specs but if that's your thing...

author: ProBang2
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:37:37 pm
content: Hello.Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 09:36:44 pmI have an UT61E. Let me assure you: The UT61E with the adaptor is not able to test a transistor.(Only the UT61Acan do this!) The adaptor is only sometimes useful for checking of capacitors.

author: eas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 22, 2015, 11:46:42 pm
content: I started with a 139c. Then I decided I wanted something with data logging and more digits, so I bought a used Keithley 2000 bench DMM. Then I bought 5 of those cheap DMMs for $10 that I could get for free if I could be bothered to collect coupons and go to Harbor Freight more often. Then I bought two more used Keithley 2000s.I have one of the cheap DMMs on my desk, one in my day pack, and one will go in the car. I find myself reaching for the cheapie more often than the 139c because the leads are shorter and take less time to wind/unwind when I just want to do some quick checks of battery voltage, or whether there is voltage (<20v) on a given pin. Still glad I have the 139c.As for the K2000s, they are a project in and of themselves and I'll probably sell one or two of them off once I finish studying/fixing them and put them to their intended use.I'd get the 139c, or even something cheaper until you have specific needs they can't address. Don't spend extra money based on what you think you'll need when you don't have much experience to go on.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:02:23 am
content: Quote from: paulie on May 22, 2015, 11:17:48 pmI actually did a review on the UT136B and would recommend it for a simple meter for the bench, meaning low energy and low voltage. This recommendation is if you can't afford more. The "830" cheap free or $5 meters will fail, and will give you false readings when you don't know it. Why frustrate yourself with not knowing if you are actually reading the right value?Bar graphs are handy, but as I said no big deal. The problem with having cheap meters with improper fuses and input protection is that the user might just be tempted to use it "just once" and when that didn't harm them they will use it again until they get into complacency. If you have the money, buy something safe and good quality. No one ever complained they got purchased something that was too good in quality.So I have recommended $20 meters, $50 meters, $100 meters..... all to the budget of the inquirer. How can that be be elitist?

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:15:11 am
content: Quote from: ayman.break on May 22, 2015, 03:02:13 pmstep 1 you open a paypal dispute

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:18:50 am
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 23, 2015, 12:15:11 amPaypal requires you to have a "paper trail" of wanting to resolve the dispute with the seller first before they process the dispute. So step one is to go through the Ebay feedback system.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:21:12 am
content: No. Step one you contact the seller via message and politely ask for assistance. Rarely necessary to open a case. Ebay buyer protection is next and hardly ever fails. From experience with couple hundred "not as described" out of 3k transactions. Paypal is last resort.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:23:39 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 23, 2015, 12:02:23 amNot every internet "expert" deserves elitist label (only 99.999%. LOL). Just like not everybody with stacks of thousand dollar lab grade is foolish (just 99.999%. LOL). For example Dave Jones makes a living on reviews and teardowns. And many dealers are justified. Some of these guys though....Quote from: Lightages on May 23, 2015, 12:02:23 amOut of couple hundred (no exaggeration) HF freebies starting with the black ones 15 years ago Ive never had a DOA except rare missing display segment. Always fixed by reseating the elastomer strip. And my original yellow one is still cranking away after more than 10 years of daily use. Can't say the same for Ebay version with beeper and sig gen. Out of 6 purchased 2 unrepairable failures but seller quickly replaced with credible photo evidence. However it was worth it for those two additional features.ps. I must say the UT136B is in a different class regarding build quality and safety and well worth the extra $10.pps. I forgot to mention the auto-off was a wonderful improvement too.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 12:55:35 am
content: Quote from: paulie on May 23, 2015, 12:21:12 amWell from the sounds of it he's already done that part (contacting the seller).

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 01:07:09 am
content: Key word "polite". The importance cannot be stressed. Chinese culture is different and they will write you off with slightest hint of insult or offense. A little buttering up goes a long ways. Same when opening a case. Ebay staff appreciates civil behavior. I am a completely different persona compared to internet forums. LOL

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 01:22:10 am
content: Yeah politeness goes a long way, there is no point in getting rude, the system is in place that handles it for you. I had an experience with a seller on Ebay once. I ordered an old vintage film camera. When I got it, it turned out to be a completely different model and a brand from what I ordered.I left the negative feedback and went on with my business (wrong item). Through the ebay system he messaged me and offered to refund me without even requiring me to send the camera back, under the condition that I revise the feedback, this is all through the ebay system, like that was the condition enforced by the system.See the thing is, any negative feedback, increases the Ebay's cut % on a sale of each item, which means less money for the seller. So sellers who do a lot of volume get really dinged if they have negative feedback.I agreed and set his review to 5 stars, he issued a refund and everyone was happy.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 04:24:02 am
content: I don't think I have ever paid over $20 for a hand held meter. I have an old DM-301 that I bought from Sears that was made in Korea. Other than I cracked the LCD, it still works fine. I have two really cheap Harbor Freight CEN-TECH meters that were under $10 each. They will measure frequency, temperature, capacitance and have a transistor tester.

author: hamster_nz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 05:48:25 am
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 23, 2015, 04:24:02 amDon't say that Joe! you will attract the angry hoards with their pitchforks and silver bullets... After all you must be one of the living dead if you have actually used a meter that features a transistor hfe tester. :-)I have found that a standard $30 Jaycar meters work just fine for hobby needs.... And. a fool can hurt themselves with an expensive meter just as quickly as they can with a cheap one.Keep one hand in a pocket at all times while anywhere near anything over 30V is my rule of thumb.

author: ayman.break
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 08:52:10 am
content: well today the seller just gave me my payment back but he didn't pay me for shipping but its written that seller pays return shippingbut now im heading for the uni-t 139 and maybe an other ut136dbut what about the brymendo you think i need it ?if i can use it and it will help me alot more than the uni-ti'll get itbut i don't want to pay more than double on something i wont even needthank you

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 10:15:39 am
content: Yikes! Common sense rears it's ugly head! You guys are no fun at all. I need to find another forum where waste and excess prevail !!!Before grabbing a deal on the UT136b I did have that UT61e on my watch list for several weeks because of its datalog ability. Quite a bargain at $50 for features like that and the 5 digit precision. Probably would have one now if the serial protocol details were available. Also those $5 Ebay 5 digit panels meters seemed to fit my particular higher resolution applications (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/ ).

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 03:16:13 pm
content: You can definitely go cheap, and you will be fine for hobby use. But if build quality, features and protection are something you care about, then you'll have to spend some money.I have the UT-61E an Amprobe 37XR-A and a Fluke 87-V (also have a Fluke 8842A bench meter). The Fluke 87-V is definitely the king of my meters in every aspect. If I never had to do any mains, I would be fine with UT-61E however. It's a good meter.The only issue with it is, it doesn't give me the confidence when it comes to protection. I do still use it though, it uses very little battery power for measurements. So it's a perfect meter to just keep an eye on something for a long time for example. Also it's a bit smaller than the other meters so it takes less room on the bench, and so I like it as a 2nd meter when I am measuring multiple points.Like Dave said, I would get 2 meters, get a cheaper one and something with some decent protection. Perhaps one of the UNI-Ts and a Brymen when you can afford it.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 03:40:23 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on May 23, 2015, 12:18:50 amno they dont. You open paypal dispute and state "broken on arrival, selled unwilling to return money". Its that simple. If you are a really nice person/sucker you can start with Ebay dispute first, but NO private messages and talking behind ebays back, all it does is waste money and moves you outside dispute time window.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 23, 2015, 03:44:18 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on May 23, 2015, 10:15:39 ambroken link

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 04:57:22 am
content: Link is not broken, Eevblog website is broken. '$' not allowed as 1st character in title. It works if you cut and paste the line into your browser. Also google "5 dollar digit voltmeter" gets you right there.Note to self: $ good in pocket, not good for Eevblog thread title.Regarding Ebay problems you are not on top of that.

author: miguelvp
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 05:06:29 am
content: Quote from: paulie on May 24, 2015, 04:57:22 amOr you could just place the url endpoints yourself instead of letting the forum figure it out.Code:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/$5-voltmeter-with-5-digit-%280-1mv%29-resolution/

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 05:13:27 am
content: Quote from: miguelvp on May 24, 2015, 05:06:29 amBut that is so much WORK !!!!Seriously though, you are right. I tend not to notice my mistake until somebody like Rasz brings it up. Thanks guys.Quote from: Muxr on May 23, 2015, 03:16:13 pmI agree with the 2 meter strategy. An expensive "safe" one to collect dust on the shelf and maybe take down once in a while to make videos and impress noobs. Possible tax write-off too. Then a cheap one to actually use for measuring and debugging.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 06:46:29 am
content: It's pointless to spend $50 on a multimeter IMHO. It's a price range that just doesn't make much sense.Think: If somebody here was advising a newbie to buy a $200 Chinese oscilloscope you'd all be shouting "don't do it!!!" Why is a $50 multimeter any different?A $50 meter won't measure any better than a $15 meter and it's probably not built well enough that anybody here will put their hand on their heart and declare it "safe for mains use".Either spend $15 on a multimeter and stay away from mains sockets or go over $100 where meters start to fall into the "safe" category.And as Dave says, two cheap meters is more useful than one expensive meter.PS: I don't understand the fascination with poking multimeter probes into mains sockets. Mains AC isnevergoing to have a wrong value ("That's weird, it says 160 Volts when it should be 240..."), all you need to know is whether the voltage is there or not. There's cheap, safe non-contact gadgets for that. Even theFluke brandedones are under $20.(Yes, I'm sure somebody here can justify using a multimeter for mains work but it won't be a general-use scenario...)

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:25:40 am
content: If you never have a problem with a $5 meter, then you have good luck. So you say the cheapest you can get or over $100. Anything in between is a waste of money? Many people have reported that their "830" style meter has read completely wrong. It would be a bad thing if you measured a supply voltage that at 5V and that is what your device needs and then find out you just fried your $50 project because it really was 12V. It is not just about the safety of the user but also being confident in your measurements.I would have no problems telling someone they can use a UT139C on mains in the house. This could be when you want to check the voltages going to the inside of appliances for example. There are many paces to measure mains voltages and energies that are not just sticking the probes in the wall socket. I have a solar system and its "mains" could be wrong if something starts to fail, as another example.Buy cheap if you want but know the limitations of buying cheap and what the consequences are. A $50 meter maybe won't measure better than a $15 meter when new, but what about in two years, or when you drop it too many times, or when the contacts start to wear, etc... I am sorry, but asserting that a $15 is going to be just as good as any $50 meter is not logical.Is it not better to buy something you can trust once, instead of buying junk over and over and over?The answer to the OP's question is:Spend what you can afford to get a quality instrument. If you are going to never poke the probes in anything close to mains, then a $15 UT136B is a good buy. You want to spend the minimum and have a a good safe meter for almost anything a home hobbyist might want to measure, then the UT139C is a good buy at $50. There are probably other meters in these price ranges that I would be happy to recommend for the same uses. Anything less and you start to get into some pretty questionable quality. Sure I would like it if everyone would purchase a Fluke 17B, or a Brymen BM257s, or an Amprobe AM270. Something like these is guaranteed to be as safe as anyone would need for any kind of home use. The other meters are fine though for their recommended use. Cheaper is just asking for some kind of problem.

author: Electro Fan
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:26:29 am
content: Ditto what Fungus said -One good meter and then 1 or more inexpensive meters.I have a few of these or similar models (some were about $15):http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007ZL0K3E/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1432451707&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=radio+shack+multimeter&dpPl=1&dpID=41t6%2Bp54tjL&ref=plSrch#immersive-view_1432451801708They measure DC amps and volts generally within a few thousandths of what my Fluke reads.For AC use a good meter or the Fluke tester device Fungus linked to if you really need to probe an AC outlet.

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:49:23 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 24, 2015, 07:25:40 am$50 is what a good quality set of probes costsI aquired a UT-61E just for fun,the first thing i noticed was that it showed 0,5V off at 5VDC, the second thing that i noticed was that it could not measure AC when there was DC present.I have a Fluke 289 that have seen some hard use, it never fails, not in any point.A Fluke 289 is way too expensive for most hobbyist that mostly checks connections, measure resistors and checks if the 9V battery is ok or not.As many hobbyist rarely measures current the simplest Fluke 101 would suffice and be more trustable than a cheap no-name meter with crappy probes.When you buy a cheap multimeter or tool or whatever you must be aware that there is limitations, in the multimeter case you should not fully trust it, especially not for measuring mains.You should not fully trust the probes either, cheap flimsy probes are cheap for a reason, i does not take much imagination to realize what can happen when the meter says that there is no voltage in the power outlet, are you absolutely positive that there is no voltage? can you trust the multimeter? can you trust the probes?At work i always replace my collegues multimeter probes when thay leave it for the yearly calibration service, at first many thinks it is absolutely unnecessary as their probes works just fine.But after a year of hard work when stretched, stepped on and coiled countless turns around the meter i would say that they are worn enough not to be trusted anymore,therefore i just replace them, at least a new set of probes are cheaper than a human life, a lot cheaper.

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:15:14 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2015, 06:46:29 amI realise this is an ELECTRONIC engineering blog but as an electrical engineer I have had issues on several occasions with things such as 3 phase motors tripping, power supplies not working correctly where an isolator or contactor is faulty and showing ~140-180v instead of 240v on a particular phase. Also in industrial control panels there can be so much packed in the a volt stick or similar will be no use at all.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:19:41 am
content: Quote from: Lightages on May 24, 2015, 07:25:40 amI didn't say $5, I said $15.See my video for $5 "830" style vs. $15 sensible meter:Quote from: Lightages on May 24, 2015, 07:25:40 amOf all the possible bad readings: What are the chances of it sayingexactly5.00V?The point of having two meters (well,oneof the points of having two meters) is that when you get a weird reading you can check it with the *other* meter. If they both say the same thing, then, well, you need to stop and think.As a long term strategy is it better to:a) Buy a $15 meter and save up for a $125 meterorb) Buy a $50 meterthensave up for a $125 meter after you find out the $50 meter isn't as good/safe as you thought it was?We've all been burned by bad multimeters, even Dave:After watching that video I wouldn't trustanyUni-T meter as far as I could spit a rat.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:24:53 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on May 24, 2015, 10:15:14 amAs I said: Not a general-use scenario... if you're working on 3 phase motors and industrial control panels then you're a specialist.(And you're not going to be using a $50 multimeter)Riddle me this: Would you let an unsupervised 5-year old measure mains AC sockets with a multimeter? Even a Fluke?

author: donkey77
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 11:02:49 am
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2015, 10:24:53 amMaybe not general use, it was the part about 'Mains AC is NEVER going to have the wrong value' I had an issue with.And no, I don't have a $50 meter although they're probably not worth much more than that now. I have 2 old Fluke 87's with no I's or V's after it. Still reliable though even if the LCD can fade a little.I'm not sure I trust my kids with the TV remote let alone anything else!

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 11:16:34 am
content: Quote from: donkey77 on May 24, 2015, 11:02:49 amYou know what I meant....

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 02:45:19 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2015, 06:46:29 amActually it is very common. Usually to check the meter more than lines voltage though. Also most convenient source for precision frequency standard. Here's one for ya: In that same Eevblog project I'm measuring non-isolated direct connect rectified mains:Also known to use that same setup to test 3kv HV sources and geiger counter supplies with NO HAND IN MY POCKET!!!! It's true, I'm a wild and fearless (ok, maybe fool-hardy) hacker dynamo.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 04:45:03 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2015, 10:19:41 amUni-T makes a lot of crap meters, but UT61E is decent for the price. Even Dave says it in that video. Of course the biggest issue with UNI-T is the false protection claims, for which they really deserve all the criticism they get.But as long as you know what you're getting I don't see a problem. For $50 bucks you get a decent meter with PC data logging.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 06:28:01 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on May 24, 2015, 02:45:19 pmThe difference is that you have experience and are not asking the question "How much should a hobbyist spend on a multimeter". If you know the risks then you are educated and can assess the risk. A person asking the question above does not have this education an therefore needs to learn before he/she does what you are doing. All I try to do is educate.Like I said; if someone wants to buy a $5 meter and KNOWS what they are getting and its limitations, then fine. If they don't know the hazards and believe the markings on the meter as far as its safety rating goes and then get hurt, we let them down.

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:16:29 pm
content: Quote from: Muxr on May 24, 2015, 04:45:03 pmThe point is: Fluke (and others) doesn't makeany.Quote from: Muxr on May 24, 2015, 04:45:03 pmWhy should buying a multimeter be a crapshoot whether you get a good one or not? What sort of manufacturer does that?Quote from: Muxr on May 24, 2015, 04:45:03 pmMost shops don't let you do a teardown before paying.Quote from: Muxr on May 24, 2015, 04:45:03 pmIf you absolutely have to have data logging then there's not much choice I guess.I confess I bought a Uni-T last week. They make a decent pocket meter (the UT120C) in a price range that nobody else seems to. What's a guy to do?

author: Refrigerator
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 07:53:00 pm
content: I had my UT-136b for a long time, blown many fuses and had it hit the ground many times but it's still going strong.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 08:51:10 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 24, 2015, 07:16:29 pmI agree that you can't go wrong with a Fluke, I own 2 myself. I am just saying for $50 UT61E is an alright meter for the price, so long as you use it on low voltage stuff.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 09:30:58 pm
content: Fungus, I love Dave Jones videos but yours are right up there too. Specially nice that you didn't edit out the two and a half minute tutorial on eating ginger cookies.

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: May 24, 2015, 10:56:38 pm
content: BTW, another multimeter that just came up lately in this thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-or-curate%27s-egg-all-sun-em6000-review-teardown/looks like a good buy for a beginner too as it appears to have some input protection, proper fuses, and PC communications included.https://www.electrobi.de/Werkstatt/Multimeter/Digital-Multimeter/Digitalmultimeter-McCheck-DM-303-schwarz-mit-blauem-Holster-3-5-6-stellig-mit-analoger-Balkenanze.html

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 01:37:28 am
content: Quote from: hamster_nz on May 23, 2015, 05:48:25 amAgree.My P37772 was reviewed here with the big thumbs down...https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/harbor-freight-centech-p37772-aka-mastech-m9508-teardown/msg168623/#msg168623If the big concern is that the meters do not meet their published voltage ratings, I don't understand why not stress their inputs and blow them up as part of the review.So to put my $10 where my mouth is, here is my own reviews of my hand held meters....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFHOjGB-zY&feature=youtu.be

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 02:05:05 am
content: I enjoy your videos Joe, but that was scary to watch, you're braveFluke guy demonstrating what happens to a cheap meter measuring high voltage if a user mistakenly sets the mode wrong:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEoazQ1zuUM&feature=youtu.be&t=317

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 03:25:00 am
content: That last vid clearly shows the real strength of $300 meters. However I found Joe's testing somewhat more "real" because how many noobs have 1000v 100amp power supplies kicking around. Anybody who does will probably not own one of those cheapies. I can say I've accidentally hooked up that exact same model to a 2kv radiation detector supply while in ohms range and it suffered no harm. No fuse blown even. Of course we are talking microamps here so that was no miracle.I've also tried to measure lines voltage in ohms range and it did blow the fuse but easy to fix with hair thin strand of wire ("Ceramic what? How many dollars? For a fuse? This meter costs less than that!").By far the most common mistake is hooking up to a high current source like car battery in milliamp range. "I wanted to see how much current" is their excuse. Yeah... right. Again blown fuse. I've given out literally dozens of those meters to friends, relatives, and clients over the years and have a box full of dead ones returned for that. "It broke" or "It stopped working". Not "I broke it". LOL. They are all repairable but why bother? Not one of those HF red Cen-tech cost me a red cent.The 9v battery is worth retrieving though. Haven't paid for one of those in years either thanks to those meter coupons.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 03:26:32 am
content: Thanks, I think.Glad you enjoyed it. I was betting against the Sears DVM.I did not try it in different modes like the video you linked. I would not be too surprised if these meters would have similar damage. At a minimum I suspect the Cen-Tech would blow a fuse. This would be the sort of testing I would want to see in a review. It was an impressive! The manual for my Cen-Tech meter states:It must be understood by the operator that common sense and caution are factors which cannot be built into this product, but must be supplied by the operator.Do not apply voltage to the Test Leads when the Multimeter is in the Ohms testing setting. Damage can occur to the multimeter.Do not switch between testing modes with the multimeter connected to a circuit.Additional Multimeter precautionsBe careful not to apply voltage to the Test Leads when they are connected to the COM and V?mA Jacks or when the Multimeter is in an Ohms testing setting. Damage can occur to the multimeter and the fuse may blow.

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 04:06:32 am
content: Here's some good ones....Dave and friend getting the job done...

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 09:57:01 am
content: Quote from: paulie on May 24, 2015, 09:30:58 pmThanks.(I really need to get off my ass and do some more...)

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 25, 2015, 07:56:27 pm
content: Having fun watching Dave filling crappy multimeters with large amount of JoulesThat reminds me of an incident with cheap probes,a few years ago i was adjusting output voltage from a Hall-effect sensor with a opamp that gave a reading on a display.I stuck the probes in at the opamp next to the sensor and started to adjust 'til i got a perfect reading, removed the probes and assembled the unit.After i switched on the unit, the readings were way off, what?- it turns out that the multimeter leads being magnetic

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 09:20:24 am
content: Quote from: paulie on May 25, 2015, 03:25:00 amI did a multimeter workshop at the Arduino club a few months ago after I built my multimeter tester. I got everybody to bring their multimeter along to see how accurate they were.None of them had a working mA/uA range. Notoneout of 10-12 meters - even the guy who brought a Fluke.

author: Rasz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 02:56:43 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 26, 2015, 09:20:24 amsounds suspicious, either your tester was faulty() or uoi have an interesting definition of working (100% up to spec)

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 03:08:13 pm
content: Quote from: Rasz on May 26, 2015, 02:56:43 pmEither that or everybody had blown their fuses at some point and never replaced them (if they even realized what happened).

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 03:18:22 pm
content: Actually that is quite believable. Out of similar number of members at a similar ham club meet last year nearly half had tales of blown fuses. I guesstimate same percentage of blown meters from my noob acquaintances that were given these. Average life expectancy 1 month. Some moved up in experience and even managed to replace their own fuse. Most returned to me and after some education and warning did a lot better.There were also two proud Fluke owners at that meeting sniffing and bragging about their half grand prizes and how money was no object if you're serious and "buy cheap buy twice" etc. Interestingly both those meters had dead batteries when time to check the references. LOL. Says a lot about who uses what for what purpose and how often.ps. Fungus, did you do a thread on that checker? Or a blog somewhere?

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 03:48:34 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on May 26, 2015, 03:18:22 pmNo, it's on my list of "videos to make..."

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 04:34:03 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on May 26, 2015, 03:18:22 pmI think I might steer clear of your ham club if that's the prognosis on joining.

author: SArepairman
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 04:35:02 pm
content: alot

author: Fungus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 05:26:27 pm
content: Quote from: paulie on May 26, 2015, 03:18:22 pmIt doesn't take much to blow the internal 250mA fuse of a multimeter.(And if it's a Fluke ... it's an expensive mistake)

author: joeqsmith
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 06:01:33 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on May 26, 2015, 04:34:03 pmActually, I would think that would be the club to join!! Imagine a ham club that actually attempts to train their members on electronics.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 06:10:06 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on May 26, 2015, 04:34:03 pmQuote from: SArepairman on May 26, 2015, 04:35:02 pmThere are two types of electronics enthusiasts: Those who have blown a fuse and those who keep their meter in a glass case or dark corner and never touch. Ironically the Fluke-a-zoids in that story, you know, the ones with dead battery, had no talk of replacing fuse. Guess which category they belong.Wait, maybe there is a 3rd possibilty. Those who did replace a fuse but due to reeling from the cost of the fuse or traumatic fear the meter was really broke they have repressed the memory.ps. BTW if you read my post carefully notice my ham buddies didn't necessarily have bad meters. What they really were doing was relate stories of the times it did happen. Mostly early in the career. IMO an important part of learing how to use one. The noobs I mentioned were friends, family, and day job people not technically inclined so forgivable. And many of those are a lot smarter now too thanks to the mishap

author: slurry
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 06:23:47 pm
content: Quote from: joeqsmith on May 26, 2015, 06:01:33 pmAgree, there are still many hams eager to learn, don't blame them for not knowing Everything and being EE or RE's, we all have to start somewhere.I'm too busy with my wife, small kids and dog otherwise i would have talked about dB, what SWR is and PEP, RL, and other radio related stuff during some club evenings.

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 06:28:50 pm
content: I keep packets of fuses in the cheap meters, just to save me from walking to the bottle of fuse packs I have. Blown a couple of them up as well, and some died a horrid death when I accidentally was measuring standby current on the car and forgot to change the leads over to check voltage. Leads melted, along with the 10A current shunt and the sockets. I bought another one the following week.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 06:39:49 pm
content: Oh yeah... I forgot about the "unfused" situation. One big difference is the cheapies have very little copper in them probe leads. Not so great when your probes have half ohm drop and you must subtract from every low resistance reading. The good news is they tend to be the first thing to go in 10a setting.Ahhhh... I love the smell of burnt PVC in the morning !!!

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 07:04:11 pm
content: 10A range is good to check AA cells, 2 seconds, and if it is above 3A the cell is still good. There the lead resistance is needed. Also used as a final condem on SLA batteries, if it cannot deliver over 5A it is definitely past dead, even if it does show over 11V. Of course when it is shaped like a balloon you know it is well done.

author: Muxr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 07:07:42 pm
content: Quote from: Fungus on May 26, 2015, 05:26:27 pmWhether it's a Fluke or not, the cost depends on the fuse not on the meter. Actually chances are a Fluke is going to survive most any mishaps, so on average the mistake should be cheaper than on any other meter, since you're only going to be out a fuse, as opposed to a whole meter.

author: retrolefty
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 07:20:16 pm
content: QuoteSo true. Even at work (in a large oil refinery) there would always be a tech every so often that would whip out their meter to make a quick voltage check only to forget that the last time they used the meter the leads were set/plugged in for current measurement. Of course that means they are applying a direct short across a power supply, not good. It takes time to get in a habit to return leads to the voltage jacks after every current measurement usage. Once we started standardizing on the Fluke model 87, it's internal buzzer, warning of voltage selection but leads in current mode, helped remind.

author: AG6QR
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 08:01:57 pm
content: I blew a fuse on my Fluke once. It was when adjusting a ham radio amplifier that I had built from a kit. One of the last steps was adjusting the bias current for the final transistors. The procedure involved putting a current meter on the amp, turning it on with the bias potentiometers fully CCW, looking at the current, then one by one, adjusting the bias potentiometers to produce a specified increase in current for each transistor. The total current demand for the amp at idle during this procedure was well below the 400mA range, so I thought I was safe. I forgot about the initial inrush to fill the capacitors when I first turned the amp on. That initial inrush blew the fuse. Oops.I bought a package of 5 fuses for the 400mA range, plus 5 more for the 10 amp setting. I figure if it happened once, it'll happen again, and it's best to avoid having to wait for delivery of fuses in the future.Now I know that I should bypass the meter with a jumper during initial startup.Regarding the original question about how much to spend, I'd suggest that it pays to invest in quality for the tools you use the most. A multimeter is my most used electronics tool. Furthermore, a good one isn't that expensive, in the grand scheme of things. It will last decades. And unlike many areas of electronics, the technology for multimeters is relatively mature, so an investment today is unlikely to be wiped out by an announcement in six months of a new model with twice the capability for half the cost.I've got a couple of meters, which I've owned for a while. I've probably spent less than $20/year on meters, all told. How much have I spent on gasoline for discretionary shopping trips for electronic stuff? More than I've spent on meters, I'm afraid.

author: Howardlong
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 10:02:47 pm
content: Quote from: Howardlong on May 26, 2015, 04:34:03 pmI fear there may have been a minor misunderstanding, I was referring to the average life expectancy at your club, which seemed rather worrying, not the quality of meter fettling, which I am sure is of the highest quality.A case of two nations separated by a common language.

author: paulie
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: May 26, 2015, 11:34:00 pm
content: Haha... We will work out the "rough edges" on this internet posting stuff yet. So the good news is I learned a new word today. And didn't even have to resort to URBAN dictionary this time, no need to go beyond the Google search page.