Soldering to strange metal contacts. - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: jchw4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 10:13:16 am
content: This are probably the cheapest grabbers around:https://www.amazon.com/Mini-Grabber-Minigrabber-Color-Interface/dp/B00AH3OYGQ(and in many other places)These are not very good in general, but for my specific project I found them to be perfect size. I have different other grabbers, so I did select them on purpose. (size matters!)But I could not solder to them! I tried rosin flux, abrasive paper, aspirin, and nothing worked. The contacts still look nickel-basedI see some variants when they put a solderable rivet, but this is not what I want. The variant that I have was probably for crimping, but I still want to solder to it.What are my options if I want to solder to this? I definitely want to try to use them in my project.I attached some photos of how they usually look like, and photos of my failed soldering attempts.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 10:56:21 am
content: Quote from: jchw4 on November 04, 2020, 10:13:16 amWhy not crimp? It makes a good quality joint and is even used in aerospace applications.QuoteIf you can't solder and won't crimp, we can probably rule out glue; although, nanoparticle silver ink may work. It is expensive. Alternatively, use a battery tab welder to attach a thin nickel strip on the face to which you can solder.

author: jchw4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 11:49:40 am
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 04, 2020, 10:56:21 amBecause it's usually more reliable. You solder a wire and it works for years without any issues.Crimping requires attention, two metals will likely create galvanic pair and rust. I bet I cannot make it "aerospace quality" without tries and fails.I was looking for something simpler.QuoteI don't want to buy a spot welder just for this.The nice thing about these grabbers is that they are extremely cheap. So I was hoping maybe for some flux (there are many and I don't know which one to try), or some special solder...I will crimp if I don't have other reasonable options, but I still hope there is something simple that I am missing.

author: jpanhalt
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:16:49 pm
content: You could try an electroless plating with copper, tin, or gold.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:22:23 pm
content: You need to Google “soldering to spring steel” as that is your challenge here. Those cheap grabbers are spring steel and do not take solder easily. You will likely need quite an active acid flux which must be washed off after soldering to prevent corrosion. The brass eyelet is normally inserted by the manufacturer as a solder point. I have not seen these probes supplied without that eyelet fitted.By the way..... those really cheap grabbers are often more effort than they are worth and it would be a good move to purchase some that are a little better if you want to avoid lots of ongoing hassle when using them. They are the cheapest of the cheap and not in a good way.Fraser

author: jchw4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:29:14 pm
content: Quote from: jpanhalt on November 04, 2020, 12:16:49 pmThis is interesting. Thank you! I may try this.Quote from: Fraser on November 04, 2020, 12:22:23 pmWell, I probably do not want too active fluxBut thank you for the information, I'll google it.Thank you!QuoteWe'll see

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:51:48 pm
content: Quote from: jchw4 on November 04, 2020, 11:49:40 amIt's not more reliable. It's very unreliable in any application where wire will be bent near to solder joint. This includes vibration.QuoteCrimping requires you to not to mismatch connector, wire and tool. And to not use very crappy connectors. Other than that it's much easier to make a crappy solder joint.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 12:56:00 pm
content: And frankly those grabbers are complete trash. They simply do not hold on what they grab. I suggest looking for NOS or used HP/Agilent/Keysight grabbers on ebay.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 01:29:05 pm
content: Quote from: wraper on November 04, 2020, 12:51:48 pmthe problem is not the soldering, the problem is the "bending", so dont bend it or solder at point where the wire will not get bent directly on solder joint. bending on crimp joint will not prohibit from wire break. btw, this grabber is my favourite compared to Tektronix or Uni-T since it can grab soic IC pin easily without shorting the next pin, the metal can straightened up and difficult to grab, the fix is bend it back with a tweezer. i havent tried my HP grabber, i think if it has those flat metal tip instead of round metal, it should perform as well. granted the cheap grabber is soft metal and non fire resistance plastic, but i can make it work. its more difficult to make work Tektronix grabber to grab soic or smaller pitched pin.

author: wraper
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 01:43:43 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on November 04, 2020, 01:29:05 pmDid you never hear that solder wicks into the wire and hardens it, thus making it brittle in the point where hard part borders with soft part. There is no such issue with crimpingQuoteIt will be orders of magnitude more robust than soldering though.

author: DenzilPenberthy
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 03:01:20 pm
content: I have had success in the past soldering to tricky substrates by using Hydrobromic acid as a flux. I was discussing this with a colleague just the other day and he was saying he'd done the same using hydrochloric acid. Very easy to get hold of as brick cleaner or toilet cleaner. It will be very aggressive though so don't use your best soldering iron tip, and don't breathe the fumes!!!!!!!!I'll add though that this converstion with my colleague was because we were discussing the 'X-Y Problem':https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problemI've worked at a university running electrical/electronics workshops for years. I was using this exact thing as an example. Students often come to me to ask how to solder to difficult substrates like stainless steel or aluminium. Usually after they've spent a decent amount of time themselves trying. in 99% of cases, a few probing questions reveal that soldering the thing is their 'Y' and a much better way of achieving their 'X' is to use a crimp ring terminal then screw it to a tapped hole in the substrate.I'd second others' suggestions that I'd look for a way to crimp/screw/clamp a wire to this rather than solder.

author: akimpowerscr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 03:06:02 pm
content: I sometimes use 0.8 or 1mm stainless wire for MIG welding as a cheap resistive wire.By heating it red to anneal it, it becomes malleable and can be formed into a spiral.To solder on its ends with tin - lead, I use the following process:I apply with a torch a layer of 40% silver brazing filler, with the appropriate flux.Tin-lead solder adheres very well to silver alloy.

author: Gyro
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 04:33:48 pm
content: Quote from: jchw4 on November 04, 2020, 10:13:16 amJust out of curiosity, why not?

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 04:55:57 pm
content: Quote from: Gyro on November 04, 2020, 04:33:48 pmme too curious. maybe the solderable rivet like mine is wire popping out from the middle back make it harder to press the grabber without pinching the wire to the side, this is the reason sometime the wire got broken. i'll mod my grabber next time i diy my unused stock, drill hole from the side so wire will pop out from there. i saw those crimp type grabber earlier while browsing mini grabbers, but i dont like them because the crimp metal is popping out from plastic, not good for higher voltage work, now thanks to OP for telling more about its drawback. to OP, may i suggest cleaning or sanding the metal, redo soldering with flux and higher temperature iron and be patient until the metal really absorb the heat and blend with solder. ymmv.

author: pwlps
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 09:30:16 pm
content: Quote from: jchw4 on November 04, 2020, 10:13:16 amYou can solder many alloys with a high-activity flux like those used for stainless steel, here are two options but results may depend on the alloy:1) phosphoric acid based flux like this :https://soldersandfluxes.co.uk/p1324/S26-Stainless-Steel-Flux.html2) flux based on zinc chloride/hydrochloric acid :https://superiorflux.com/stainless-steel-soldering-flux/I used (1) to solder several "exotic" alloys (like nickel-chrome alloys) and it worked well.

author: uli12us
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 10:30:24 pm
content: Its generally better to crimp those parts. The solder have not only the attribute to flow under pressure, it hardened the braid as well, so at each movement the end of the solderded wire bend itself and after very short time it will break.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 04, 2020, 11:55:56 pm
content: I just looked at your pictures again and remembered how wires are attached to your type of grabber and it is really nasty, in keeping with the cheap nature of the item. The wire is wrapped around the ‘dog bone end’ shaped protrusion at the top of the grabber and then normal solder is applied to the white. The solder coats the wire and holds it in place on the ‘dog bone’. The solder does not wick onto the grabbers metal and the connection is anything but stable. It is is a sort of bastardised ‘wire wrap’ idea ! I have seen this myself in a cheap set of grabbers supplied with a cloned Logic Analyser unit. The connections at the grabber ends were terrible and the copper wire used was so few thin copper strands that they broke easily. Total rubbish basically.If I had to use such nasty grabbers I would spot weld some battery tag nickel strap to them with my battery tag welder. A simple tag welder can be made using a car battery and copper probes or heavy duty large value capacitors. The nickel or nickel plated steel used for a battery tag may be easily soldered and a small piece of it spot welded to the grabber would give you a point to which solder would flow and bond.Fraser

author: CatalinaWOW
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 05, 2020, 12:47:03 am
content: You have received much good advice here. If you want to proceed with your grabbers anyway, and don't want to use an active acid flux there is one more thing you can try which may work for you.First tin the probe contact surface by applying heat, solder and actively abrading the surface with sandpaper or a file. If using sandpaper roll or fold it into a thick piece so you don't burn yourself. If using a file, pick one you don't care about because it is at risk of damage (and also will be hot). Welders gloves aren't a bad idea.This isn't always successful, but other than requiring four hands it does work fairly often. After you have the surface tinned you can solder your wire as usual.

author: Jwillis
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 08:36:20 am
content: Looks more like galvanized steel. Nickel plating should look much more polished. Anyway it appears to me that your not sustaining the heat enough to solder . All your heat is being sinked away . How many watts is your soldering iron ? Just wondering but I could be wrong .

author: perieanuo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 08:55:45 am
content: hi,liming the metal can help a lot, usually you have to insist a little bit with good flux and powerfull soldering ironsoldering this is the only way, other methods are just bla-bla-bla

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 10:43:39 am
content: Try degreasing the steel with oil-free contact cleaner then rubbing it with a Q-tip dipped with strong copper sulphate solution with a trace of dish detergent (to aid wetting) to 'flash' plate it with a solderable copper layer. Rinse it to remove residual copper and iron sulphates, pat dry and immediately solder it. Afterwards lightly spray with a contact cleaner lubricant to replace the trace oil film that may be all that's stopping the spring steel from flash-rusting if it isn't a stainless grade.YMMV as the solderable copper layer's adhesion may not be as good as one would like so it can fail to wet if it flakes as the solder touches it. Once soldered its OK as the copper plating is thin enough to entirely dissolve in the solder leaving a solder to steel joint.

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 12:12:46 pm
content: Much help offered in this thread and interesting comments. However...... so much effort needed when just sourcing a more solder friendly grabber would make the situation so much simplerIf you have time to waste and great patience, fine. Otherwise, source other grabbers as these solder unfriendly types cheapness is quickly offset by the hassle and time needed to make use of them.

author: magic
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 05:10:18 pm
content: I have similar grabbers, although can't guarantee that the material is exactly the same.I was able to solder to them with a bit of heat and activated colophony fluxBTW, I soldered pin headers to them rather than cables.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 05:53:07 pm
content: I don't have any copper sulphate handy at home so I just dipped the tab of the probe contact in some copper chloride PCB etchant for about ten seconds, washed it, wiped it off then soldered it. It soldered like any other bright copper surface, almost instantly wetting, with no extra flux required.Don't use copper chloride if you can get copper sulphate as chloride contamination may cause future rusting.There's an opportunity here for a Cantonese speaking entrepreneur:Find the factory that makes this style of grabber and order a batch in the ten colours of the electronics color code, with the tabs plated tin over copper, or the whole contact assembly gold plated. Resell at a considerable markup as 'easy solder mini-grabbers' in packs of 20 mixed or 10 by colour.

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 07, 2020, 11:13:54 pm
content: Quote from: magic on November 07, 2020, 05:10:18 pmI had a similar experience with these pretty terrible grabbers. Got a pack of 10, two wouldn't take any solder at all, the rest did, but took some roughing up with fine sandpaper and some flux. I have no idea what the metal is, or if it is copper underneath, but most of them soldered reasonably well. I have no idea about the two odd ones.

author: daedalux
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 11:27:20 am
content: To soft solder that surface easily, scratch the surface lightly in a criss cross pattern, add resin based flux, and then tin the surface well. Then tin the cable, flux again, and press the soldering iron on the tinned cable over the solder blob that you tinned in the surface. Once melt remove the soldering iron while keeping the wire in place a couple of seconds for the joint to solidify.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 12:09:57 pm
content: Quote from: Buriedcode on November 07, 2020, 11:13:54 pmMine are definitely spring steel, however their attraction to a magnet is a bit lower than I would expect from ordinary carbon steel, and they show no tendency to rust where I've handled the contacts, so I would suspect they are a low grade stainless steel.Trying to directly soft-solder stainless steel with ordinary flux is an exercise in frustration. You *may* get somewhere with acid zinc chloride flux, (aka: 'killed spirits of salt'), but that stuff is very corrosive and removing the residue after tinning the surface is a PITA, and any remaining trace will rot away your wire or rust out the spring contacts. Copper flash plating it as I described above takes a few seconds and makes it readily solderable with ordinary RMA flux core soft solder .

author: Fraser
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2020, 02:18:31 pm
content: You have to wonder who manufactures an electronics grabber that cannot be easily soldered to a test cable..... someone who does not give a damn about quality or the end user, that is whoNo wonder these grabbers are the cheapest of the cheap. Maybe the manufacturer just buys the cheapest sheet metal material available at a particular time and that dictates whether the grabbers are soft or harder ‘spring’ metal and whether or not they can be easily soldered to a cable

author: jchw4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 05:45:52 pm
content: Electroplating worked really well. Thank you!The project:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-ultimate-kelvin-grabbers/

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 06:04:34 pm
content: You don't need to electroplate as copper plates onto iron or steel chemically by substitution on contact with a copper salt solution (immersion plating), with no external electrical circuit or power supply required. Electroplating is only required if you need a thicker copper layer, but that's not a particularly good idea, as without the correct additives in the bath, and good control of current density, the resulting copper deposit can be fluffy or otherwise poorly adhering. This may result in failure if the solder joint to the copper layer is stressed. The thinner copper layer from immersion plating will almost totally dissolve in the solder leaving a good solder to steel bond

author: Buriedcode
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 11:05:21 pm
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 23, 2020, 06:04:34 pmI was gonna say, self-plating generally produces poor adherence (sometimes with a void between base metal and the reduced plating metal) but it seems in this instance it just needs enough to help the solder take.Gonna try this on the last two I have, I'm sure I've got some CuSo4 somewhere.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 23, 2020, 11:28:08 pm
content: Yes. Its similar to what happens when you solder ENIG plated pads. As you no doubt know, the gold flash plating on top of the nickel dissolves almost instantly in the solder, leaving a solder to nickel joint.

author: jchw4
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:13:59 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 23, 2020, 11:28:08 pmThis is interesting point, I'll try it next time.I am worried though that the plating did not initially appear uniform mostly attracted by the sandpaper scratches.I wonder whether slower chemical plating will make it more even, but I'll try. Thank you!

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 24, 2020, 03:33:59 am
content: Quote from: Ian.M on November 11, 2020, 12:09:57 pmThis is good to know.Very low current/voltage right?-----Also, since we're on the subject of grabbing metal to metal. I am looking for the smallest alligator clips (solderable) that I can find. They are for RF. They don't have to be fancy, just good quality, identical in size and small. Often I have to move the point of contact to get a good match mark it so I can solder a wire there. So I just want a good solid pair of clips, so I can buy 20 or so of them for my text fixtures that connect to baluns, etc, and be done with it. Most of the alligator clips I've got are too big. This isnt for GHz range its for HF, VHF and UHF use in concert with my vna.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 03:05:44 pm
content: I agree with most of the above, but have not bothered to try to solder to these cheap garbage pins.They are quite bad and there is not much they can grab.For breadboard use I prever to connect my logic analyser with the simple "dupont" wires.For other uses I've bought a box with 10 or so separate grabbers.Also relatively cheap chinesium, but when you pay arond EUR10 for a bag of 10 you get much better quality grabbers, and they're well worth the extra money.But these grabbers also do not work properly on for example a 0.5mm QFP, and on QFN you have no luck at all no matter how good your grabbers are.I do however always have a hot iron ready when I'm working with electronics.My solution is to add a male IDC connector with a dab of hot glue to the PCB and then use enameled 0.2mm copper wire to temporarily solder between pins and the IDC connector.Because the IDC' connector is glued to the PCB, the stress on the wires is negligible and once the tips of the 0.2mm enameled wire is tinned, they solder easily.And then, from that IDC connector I can easily use a short flatcable to my logic analyser.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 04:33:49 pm
content: I have two identical inch long clips that I use for balanced RF when I need a connection to that. It works reasonably well but I know this clip is not going to last a long time.. And its a bit too big. This is why I would like to find a manufacturer of small robust identical clips.. There really isnt any. There are all kind of the same cheap metal alligator clips being sold. The ones that I am using are made I think in the US. "EZ-MINI HOOKS" The mini grabbers from China don't grab tightly enough to make a good reliable connection. They are likely fine for logic analysis but not so good for use as an RF interconnect, unbalanced to balanced interface. Which is what I am trying to use the clips for. I am also looking for a better kind of wire to use for the hookup. I'm currently using clear speaker wire. It works out to around 100 ohms impedance. This is my demarkation point, to be used as the "measurement plane" at HF frequencies for HF stuff...

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 04:57:38 pm
content: I use IDC connectors to add test points to anything that I need to connect to what I am using for my MSO, which currently is an old bitscope...It came with a 24 pin IDC header (pod connector) which it uses as its logic probe input, so I am just using that.It works okay for now. Although I am not sure how long I will use it. I already had some IDC connectors that I had gotten to use for Raspberry Pi GPIOs.. (old style) But they don't always make a positive connection to the first pin.. I must be doing something wrong.Quote from: Doctorandus_P on April 24, 2022, 03:05:44 pmYou are better at this than I. For RF I think what may work better is dual RG-174 with a third clip for ground in the middle. Its certainly better than speaker wire.

author: m3vuv
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 04:59:52 pm
content: I have brought cheap grabbers in the past,total garbage,hooks bend easly,does anyone know where i can get better ones?,i brought some bnc to grabber test leads,they were about £5 each but had nice grabbers,i need to buy just the grabbers not the bnc leads included.tia.

author: cdev
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 05:11:29 pm
content: No I don't. I had a weird interaction with the Chinese supplier of these hooks.. which were individually - several bucks apiece, but thats what they charged.. each one precious.. I could tell the guys I was dealing with understood where I was coming from but they had no source of better. These EZ-hooks are as good as it gets. For RF its even worse..The ones I have used (semi-successfully) are the ball shaped X-100 SKU.. The force they grab with is enough to keep the wire connected and the clip still.. They make other hooks, that may not be as good for this specific use.. (RF measurement) I went looking for a photo of the ones I use, and wasnt able to find the exact same kind.. the photo is of some similar hooks, but slightly different. These have a little J hook.. That works better than the dual sided grabber hooks for me..

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 05:17:08 pm
content: If you can remove the metal from the plastic, braze the surface first.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 05:39:33 pm
content: Quote from: antenna on April 24, 2022, 05:17:08 pm<LOL>That would destroy any chance of them having any spring temper or even work-hardening, turning the contact fingers back into Chineese soft steel noodles

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 06:12:06 pm
content: quench it again. not hard when its already hot. Besides, you could put it in a vise stopping the heat from reaching the finger.edit: <lol>

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 06:29:08 pm
content: What's wrong with my suggestion in reply #20 of flash plating them with immersion copper, and photo as evidence of success?Why do *YOU* feel the need to mess around heating small bits of very thin spring steel held together by a brass rivet to brazing temperatures?Also, fully extracting the contacts of the style I have shown from their plastic shell, then reinserting them without damaging them, while possible, is a PITA.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 07:15:53 pm
content: Nothing at all. I was just offering a suggestion that didn't involve toxic chemicals. I do like your suggestion (and thought I hit the like button on it - looking back, i guess i didn't, sorry). I didn't think an alternative option would offend you, didn't know this was a competition for best idea...The only reason I do not particularly like the method you suggest is that it contaminates the etchant with other metals and proper disposal of copper salts at home requires tossing in aluminum foil and waiting DAYS for it to displace the copper to be environmentally safe to flush. I use copper chloride all the time, but only to etch copper because I can add HCl and bubble air through it to reactivate it. Adding contaminant metals interferes with the recycling process and I do not particularly like starting over with a bottle of etchant that has served me well for over a decade. And before my statement about aluminum turns into a pissing match with how fast other metals displace copper, I use it because the end product is not a water soluble chloride salt (like iron, zinc, nickel etc), it forms an insoluble oxide.It's a great idea, you win.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 07:55:03 pm
content: You raise some very good points re: disposal of contaminated etchant, but in the quantities needed to wet a Q-tip or a couple of ml in a bottle cap, as I used to dip the above grabber top, it isn't an issue for hobby use - wipe the few drops remaining up with kitchen paper, bag it and trash it. OTOH if you are at any sort of business that produces hazardous waste, *ALL* hazardous waste must be disposed of properly and most importantly LEGALLY. Also I forgot to emphasize that you need to avoid contaminating your 'stock' bottle of whichever copper salt solution - I thought that would be obvious to anyone who remembers their college chem, but maybe I'm too optimistic?On the contaminated copper etchant disposal side of things, as a hobby user, why are you trying to recover copper metal using aluminum? Unless you have a use for very fine copper powder, surely it would make more sense to precipitate it out as basic copper carbonate using sodium bicarbonate or as copper hydroxide using lime, then mix the sediment with cement and powdered limestone and cast it in disposable containers to lock up the copper salts as a solid lump in an alkaline environment that will keep them insoluble.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 11:28:14 pm
content: I agree that the small amounts a hobbyist would require are negligible, but that's not what hobbyists do. They grab the most convenient kitchen pyrex bowl and fill it to a sufficient depth without considering what happens to the solution when finished. You make good points about the carbonate and hydroxide, as both are also mostly insoluble, but I live on a lake with water on 3 sides in an area with a particularly low soil pH, so I like bringing it back to the metallic state just to do my part. Sure, acid rain will turn any copper metal into nitrates eventually and still get into ground water, but I like to think that takes far longer than reacting with carbonates and hydroxides. Nonetheless, I agree with you in that there are safe alternatives to aluminum, circumstances allowing. That is just what I choose because it seems to be my best option - and I have the time to do it. My concern is that 99% of the people on this forum that use copper salts as etchants or plating solutions don't even consider the issue. I agree that your solution is probably the best and the easiest for a hobbyist and it wasn't my intent to go off on an environmental rant, I was just defending my alternative suggestion. I support and recommend your suggestion.

author: Ian.M
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 24, 2022, 11:53:57 pm
content: Yes, I see where you are coming from, and hobbyists who mix up a bucketful of *whatever* when they only need a thimbleful are certainly part of the problem.Given your local ecological concerns, you should probably look into smelting your copper powder, maybe with whatever solder dross you accumulate to lower its melting point and make low-grade bronze, as that would lock it up for far longer by vastly reducing the surface area to volume ratio.

author: antenna
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 25, 2022, 12:28:02 am
content: I do have a pill bottle full of various solder blobs that wiped off the tip of my iron onto my sponge (yep, I save 'em). Well, one thing is for sure... I'll be forever labeled a fish-loving tree-hugger here, lol.