EEVblog #1288 - Synology NAS Dumpster Find! - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 09:51:27 pm
content: Is a brand new Synology DS415+ NAS in the dumpster too good to be true?A tale of teardowns, repair, Intel Atom processor silicon degradation, and dodgy clocks.Subscribe on Library:https://lbry.tv/$/invite/@eevblog:7

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 10:34:35 pm
content: This was a big deal back when it started. There was some talk of high failure rates for about a year before the problem was officially known, but I think most people were surprised by the failure rate after the story broke - it seemed to be pretty damn close to 100% in the 2.5-3 year timeframe.What's also interesting is that there still seems to be a large number of failures from stock that should've been fixed. At the time, it looked like manufacturers like ASRock and Supermicro were swapping out entire SoCs, because nobody spotted any mods, so maybe Intel didn't quite fix things completely. I only have a passing familiarity with IC design, but I can imagine that upsizing the transistors driving those pins might have taken a major revision with multiple (all?) new masks.C2000 was a big seller for embedded applications and some models like the C2758 (a favorite in networking equipment) were specced for 7-year lifecycles (oops).

author: johnlsenchak
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 27, 2020, 11:18:53 pm
content: I'm a huge Synology fanboy, I have three of their NAS drives, plus one of their WIFI routers . To answer your question, yes that NAS drive is worth investing the money for the power supply and hard drives to make it fully functional in a RAID configurationTech Tip with Synology, make sure you set up two factor authentication with your login and password with either Google Authenticator or Authy phone app

author: Razor512
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 03:18:16 am
content: If needed, for the short run, why not use it as an Anime storage NAS while testing for reliability. Just put in a few spare drives that you have laying around, and then use it for a while to store your anime backlog. It can work as a good secondary source for the content for streaming while on the go.And if you need more anime to properly fill it, then if you used any tracker sites such as anime planet to keep track of which series you have watched, as well as which ones you want to watch, chances are many of them may have been released without you noticing. Overall, you can use this chance to gather anime which you may have forgotten their release dates.If the NAS fails during your few months of testing, then at least it was only content that you could reacquire.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 03:31:33 am
content: Quote from: johnlsenchak on February 27, 2020, 11:18:53 pmBigger tip, don't allow any external access at all except via suitable means..Quote from: Razor512 on February 28, 2020, 03:18:16 amThere's uh, more to life than anime.

author: Sjokolade
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 05:39:47 pm
content: Also you should hide your serialnumber and mac addresses - if I remember correctly they can be used for virtual Synology's and if they get blacklisted I'm not sure you can have it undone.

author: jnissen
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: February 28, 2020, 08:08:21 pm
content: I bet dollars to donuts that the fault internal to the Atom was in the I/O driver PMOS output stage. Likely insufficient metalization for the current of that driver and load. Electro-migration, ESD, other items likely kills the PMOS output stage. The 100 ohm pull-up is only then using the more robust NMOS output stage of the driver that still is functional.I've designed a lot of I/O 's and if the integration team or I/O driver layout sucked then you can get things like this. Should have been caught in a decent design review and or power analysis. EMIR design tools should have captured this but as often is the case the designer or integration team gets caught up into schedule driven madness and corners are cut or complete incompetence was involved. Still for a big name like Intel this is a black eye and should have never went out the door.

author: Chromatic
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 02:24:48 pm
content: Hello,I am the owner of a DS415+ Synology NAS with basically the same issue occuring. I let things happen and now, for every startup, it's the blue led blinking and the disk undetected.I added this 100ohms resistor from Pin 1 to Pin 6 but without any noteable improvement.Is there any ressource or additional investigation I could do?I feed quite bad to throw away a +500 USD device, even if it's 4 years old...Any help would be appreciated.Best regards

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 29, 2020, 08:34:39 pm
content: Quote from: Chromatic on March 29, 2020, 02:24:48 pmMeasure the signal before and after adding the 100R as Dave has done, if you have an oscilloscope.

author: Chromatic
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 03, 2020, 03:17:00 pm
content: Hi thm_,In the meantime, I tested removing the battery, nothing better.But testing the battery... 1.1V instead of 3V, well... worth the sort to replace itWill keep you in touch after thisRegards

author: Chromatic
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: April 08, 2020, 11:58:23 am
content: So...Battery changed, still solid orange LEDs and blinking blue LED... and system reboots after ~5minI don't know if the battery was powering only the RTC, or also some mandatory data in flash?No oscilloscope for now, need to bring one from workRegardsEdit: I can't explain why but after removing and inserting back the battery, then turning on the NAS... it worked !Like in Dave's videoSo... I can't say how long this tweak will work but now it is. Thanks again for the video !

author: marsu
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 05:51:27 am
content: Hello,I am an owner of a Synology DS415+ NAS that has stopped working and suspect it is due to the issues described here.I have a large amount of data (videos and music) on this device that I want to recover.I don't have the equipment or skills to make the mod recommended but am happy to pay cash to get it fixed.I am located near the Sydney CBD and would be grateful to hear from anyone that may be able to help.I hope someone may assist me.Owen

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 05:57:09 am
content: Quote from: marsu on September 04, 2020, 05:51:27 amYou can recover the data without the mod:https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/How_can_I_recover_data_from_my_DiskStation_using_a_PC

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 04, 2020, 06:36:58 am
content: It's actually much easier if you didn't encrypt your data.Linux Mintcan automatically mount the mdadm volumes.And if you have an USB to SATA dock you can install linux mint in a VM with USB passtrough.

author: ericloewe
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: April 03, 2023, 11:03:00 pm
content: I'll add some new details since this thread might have some more visibility, being associated with the video and all:Why does a hard pull-up work?It looks like the LPC bus just rests at high using a typical pull-up (tens of kOhm) and gets driven low by the devices. The drivers for the clock lines must degrade to a point where they develop a parasitic resistance in parallel with the driver transistor that's low enough enough to overcome the normal pull-up. Adding a hard pull-up allows for enough current to flow for there to be a usable voltage at the clock output.Why do systems fail to boot?The tl;dr is that one of the clock output pins is used at SoC power-on to choose the boot device - either an LPC or SPI flash memory. SPI is the default, LPC can be selected by pulling it down at power-on. Since basically no C2000 system boots from an LPC flash, this places the CPU in a state where it tries to read from a flash memory that does not exist. There are several open questions (the specific pins don't seem to be correct, there are like 4-6 different clock outputs that would be suitable, how is the LPC clock supposed to work if it's pulled down externally, etc.), but that's the clearest explanation anyone's publicly provided.Is the mod safe?With a 150 Ohm resistor, that's some 14 mA of current constantly being sunk by the SoC, per bodged pin (many systems use at least two clocks, one for the BMC and one exposed to the TPM header). Not great, but not terrible if each pin has an absolute max rating of 50 mA, which seems to be a standardish rating for Parallel PCI clock buffers (the design of which was likely borrowed wholesale for the LPC bus).What's the official fix?Short of a new SoC, which nobody actually seems to have done, it's bodge resistors on any affected LPC clock lines. Supermicro uses 150 Ohm, ASRock uses 120 Ohm.Clock lines plural?Many/most systems need more than just the one clock line used for boot:TPMs connect over the LPC bus (hence why it's exposed in the first place). Not typically critical, except for the whole wrong boot device thing.BMCs connect over the LPC bus for in-band management, to provide sensors info and to provide SuperIO functionality. Typically not critical, but very annoying. Does not break iKVM, but don't lose your BMC password.Some systems have additional SuperIO controllers for fans, serial, etc. (ASRock uses a BMCanda SuperIO, because they like wasting money I guess.)I guess Intel's reference design just puts the TPM on the clock line that controls the boot device and everyone followed along, or something. Fortunate coincidence.More info (and examples of fixes for Supermicro and ASRock Rack boards):https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/intel-atom-c2000-failures/https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/fyi-intel-c2000-family-of-processors-system-fault-may-lead-to-dead-system.50314(Shameless plug alert)