Should we keep the Karma system? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 12:01:26 pm
content: As the question says, should we keep it or not?As an aside (and possible replacement)There is another add-in I like that you can vote up or down posts, and then it shows a list of the most popular post of the weeks etc.But that's not ready for 2.0 yet, just the old beta versions.Dave.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 12:14:28 pm
content: What purpose does it serve? The value of a poster doesn't coincide with his/her popularity.I can see very few advantages and a lot of disadvantages.It's certainly not a positive in terms of maintaining a forum without the almost inevitable cliques and divisions. That said I doubt few of those with a clue will give two hoots about theirs or anyone else's karma.superfluous fluff.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 12:31:35 pm
content: Well now.The Karma scheme is a nice incentive to be nice and give helpful replies (like the seller rating on ebay). However it is a benchmark for the person, not the post. I would not link Karma to popularity, a better figure of merit for popularity would be the absolute value of Karma.On the other hand, a thumbs up/for individual posts is a useful way to see how many share the same opinion with that post, even if they dont want to post a reply saying "Yes, I agree". This is specific to the post. There is of course som overlap between Karma and votes per post.As this was a relatively radical introduction, I would suggest you leave the poll running for a week, possibly make it sticky, and then revisit this.What I am curious about is what was the thinking behind introducing the Karma system. These reasons, and the poll result, should lead to the correct decision.Alex

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 12:41:32 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 20, 2011, 12:31:35 pmNone what so ever.It's a big feature in the new 2.0 forum software so I enabled it. The big fat enabled button was sitting there begging to be pushed...I put no thought into and don't care either way.Dave.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 01:54:50 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 20, 2011, 12:31:35 pmWell my tiny brain it can think only that I have currently 2288 posts ,and so there is 2288 reasons so some one to disagree with me.And the point is , that even if he disagrees with me, I do not want to know it.If I start to press the neg button in any disagreement, it we will end as chaos.And what about the new members, and the silly questions that the young ones mostly do ?This persons by getting few negs they will feel that the other people dislikes them !!And they will run away from the community.And another thing that bothers me, is that I do not have any idea who gave the neg and why..And the point is that the most of us we do not have the available time, so to keep every one happy.I prefer an single " Thanks " function if some one finds my post useful.And from other forums that I am member too, they record the " Thanks " only when the user writes a title of why he said thanks.And the one who had received the " thanks " he has in his profile one complete list of those.And you know why you got it , and from who, and for what topic.But because I hate complexity, I prefer to not have to bother with such evaluation systems.Mostly because they abstract your attention, and they do not offer any gain to any one.And also those evaluation systems, makes the people more skeptic about opening up to others.The evaluation systems can help only the very large and poorly moderated community's.The EEV is not one of them.We are less persons here, but we have high quality members.

author: pablo
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 02:13:12 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 20, 2011, 12:31:35 pmI totally agree!!! there are some users that are rude, specially with noobs.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 02:17:35 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 20, 2011, 12:41:32 pmWell, I am glad you did.QuoteWe dont have many arrogant and delusional wannabes on this community, so I don't think this will be the case with valid questions, only with questions of the type 'How can I use my microwave oven as a weapon'.QuoteThat is nice and subtle. But it must be linked with the post, not the poster. Replies on forums suffer from lack of credentials and you can do that much to overcome this by making an informed post. If we can manage to somehow show how many agree with a post, someone that comes in the topic can see which answer is likely to be the correct one (for applicable topics of course). If he wants to link that with the poster, he can do that in his head. Thats up to reader.Possibly the best compromise would be a 'Thanks' or ' Thumbs up' button specific to a post, no 'Thumbs Down' or buttons with negativity. If you agree, click Thumbs up. If you don't, post your opinion or Thumbs Up the post you agree with. Also, I don't think we should put a cumulative figure of how many Thumbs Up given to each person. We all have such counters in our head, and new members of the forum should not form an opinion so quickly.How does this sound?AlexEDIT: The Sonsivri forum uses a Thanks given, Thanks received system.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 03:00:48 pm
content: pro: its another measure, how helpfull a person is in a forum, simply judging by # of post is irrelevant since a person can do thousands of unusefull posts and be proud of himself. thousands of posts and negative karma may indicate the person is less helpfull and everybody know it, rather than a newbie will give blind respect to him if only #of posts shown.con: i hate when a dickhead with sensitive emotion, negative thinking, and too personal will simply give you a thumb down for giving a good advice that he dont like. one way to overcome this is like in another forum, we can see who give us +ve or -ve karma, so we will know if the -ve hit is done by a reputable member or just by a retarded dickhead that we should ignore.if there is no setting to enable view of person who give the karma, i'll vote "dont care" or "no" depending on severity of dickheads in this forum. but if we can see who give us the karma, i'll vote for "yes" we should keep karma system.edit: for now, i voted "dont care" since there is still pro and con to this. (unable to see the karma voter). i can see someone, or some people playing with my karma. where i just give +ve to some people because their previous contribution and this "karma" is a new option. and only one (or 2?) -ve so far, because imho, "hse" is still retarded!

author: armandas
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 03:29:08 pm
content: Although I managed to get a -1 without posting anything for more than a week, I would still vote for keeping the karma. The benefits may not be obvious right away, but I think that the system could work rather well in the long term.As for abusing the vote buttons, I don't think it's important. There will always be more people who vote for the quality of answers and the haters won't have much influence.

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 05:56:10 pm
content: I like the idea. However I think I would prefer just a Thumbs Up button. Only positive, not negative. That way people can be commended for good posts, and helpful posts. Like others have said, it's not fair for people to give a thumbs down to a person just because they feel like they are wrong. If a person is consistently rude, than that's an opportunity to give a thumbs down, but not just because they said something not 100% correct. For instance, I have accrued a karma of -2 since the system has been in place. Now I know I am a newbie and don't have much knowledge to offer people, but all of my posts have tried to been helpful in someway. In fact, now that I think about it, I think the only stuff I've posted since the new system has been a question on my own threads.This way, you could see who has the most helpful posts and is most respected.<crazy idea> What we need is the thumbs-up and thumbs-down system, that when a person votes for another person, it weighs the impact of the vote based on the voters karma. For instance if some loser is always posting rude and stupid comments, and therefore accumulates a karma of -50. Then this person votes thumbs-down to someone, it will only slightly matter. Versus if someone with high karma, votes negative for the same person, it will 'weigh' higher than the rude person, making a larger difference. -I hope that made sense </crazy idea>

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 06:11:11 pm
content: Wow, since being introduced my karma has fluctuated between 2, -1 and now it's 0 again.I've been on forums with karma before and I don't think it really makes any difference. The other forum I used to visit allowed other users to post anonymous comments which only the account holder could see. It did annoy me occasionally when someone put something negative when it was obvious they just didn't understand my post or didn't like it when I told them to do their own coursework. Most of my karma was good but a lot of the time there were no comments and it wasn't obvious who gave it to me: good or bad.I voted against karma because I think it's better for people to make up their own mind about someone. A thank you button would be better but the user should be told who's thanked them and there shouldn't be a counter or anything like that.

author: Arthur
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 07:10:26 pm
content: When you introduce any kind of karma or rating system on a forum you inevitably get loads of people whining that it's a bad idea. The same people with the massive post counts who go on and on about how they don't care about post counts. I think the lady doth protest too much. In reality all they want is the opportunity to slag off newbies without reprisal. If they genuinely didn't care about karma or post counts, then they wouldn't exhibit such a strong distaste for them. Please note that I am not directing this at any specific members of THIS forum, this is just my experience from other forums.It's a good idea, keep it. Or replace it with the system for voting individual posts up and down, that would be even better. You don't have to vote if you don't want to. You don't have to take the scores seriously if you don't want to. But some of us are actually interested in bettering ourselves and we would like to know how our posts are received. And yes, some people enjoy getting a thumbs up now and then. Call it sad, call it what you want, but sometimes it is nice to get some appreciation even if it is just indirectly. We are not emotionless robots.If this was a face to face discussion then "karma" and ratings would be there in the much more powerful form of facial expressions, body language, etc. I understand that this can make some people uncomfortable, we're not all public speakers, but there is no reason to be uncomfortable about a simple thumbs up/thumbs down on an internet forum. Human decency demands that you introduce this feature.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 07:28:21 pm
content: i second joshua! only positive karma or "zero", i never thought of that!

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 08:30:56 pm
content: Quote from: Arthur on June 20, 2011, 07:10:26 pmOn the other forum I visited, karma given by nubes didn't count as much as that given by those with a higher rating.So no, that's not my main reason, although it is slightly annoying when a nube comes along demanding an answer and then goes off on one (irrespective of whether they give me bad karma or not) when they don't get the one they want, which is often the whole project, complete with source code, schematics and a nice write up. Of course I don't think we should be rude to nubes. I try to be as gentle with them as possible, even if I know they just want the work handed to them on a plate, I normally ask more questions or post links to Google searches rather than just telling them to sod off.QuoteThis is why I think it shouldn't be anonymous. If someone wants to thank me for something then great and if I know who it is then better and the same is true if I want to thank someone else. If someone has a problem with one of my posts then tell me why, I might not like it but at least I know why, just getting a thumbs down means nothing and if someone just gives me bad karma without telling me then they're a coward as far as I'm concerned. On the other forum I used to post at, I always signed karma, positive or negative but I've noticed this place doesn't give that option.So yes, I suppose I do agree with having some kind of thank you system but I don't like the current karma system because I don't think it's fit for purpose.

author: A-sic Enginerd
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 08:38:05 pm
content: I really don't care one way or the other.However, I did skim the replies here and it gave me a thought:It could have some usefulness as someone mechatrommer is pointing out. Basically, it can give an indication of whether someones input may be worth a salt or not. However, IMHO to make that effective in light of the content and area of focus for this forum - maybe have karma only be available in the tech sections. In other words - base it strictly on technical merit. Places like the general chit-chat, well, that area can prove that maybe someone has the personality of a total DH, but may not mean they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to the engineering side.Don't know if it's possible to implement karma this way, but just a thought.

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 09:12:15 pm
content: I agree with the karma system. It has a dissuader effect against useless posts.Furthermore I think it’s a good idea to have an option to rate the posts and mark them as helpful.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 09:39:59 pm
content: Someone went down this page giving a -1 to almost everyone...lol...Isn't Karma a b***h?I support a post-specific rating system.

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 09:42:07 pm
content: I also agree it should not be anonymous for the reason in the post above. I don't think everybody should be able to see who did it, only the person who is affected.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 10:02:45 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 20, 2011, 09:39:59 pmIt was not me ... I got my motorcycle and made my escape from anything and anyone.( Just got back )But if I stay unmarried because of this Karma crap , you will be all responsible about it .. Lol.

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 10:06:13 pm
content: Unfortunately as it's anonymous we'll never know who it is - there are some cowardly people here.

author: johnmx
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 10:18:21 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 20, 2011, 09:39:59 pmDave was the only one who escape to the slaughter….I wonder who it was?Let the children play around. It’s almost bed time, tomorrow he (or she) will play in another forum.

author: DrGeoff
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 20, 2011, 11:40:55 pm
content: Pointless point-scoring system that is open to abuse and adds nothing to the discussion.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 12:46:26 am
content: I'll wait for the post rating method to get updated for the 2.0 forum and then will give it a try:http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=1890Dave.

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 01:41:40 am
content: Pleeeeeeaaaaaaasssssseeeeee add a mobile theme. You will make a very happy follower.http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2089Or something similar. Sorry for being off topic ...

author: ShiftPlusOne
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 02:41:49 am
content: On another forum we just have a 'helpful' button and a helpfulness level. The outcome is actually proportional to how helpful that member is. People who help others and provide reliable information have a high helpfulness level. We had an 'unhelpful' button, but members who provided good, but unpopular, information would get voted down to a negative level.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 02:51:07 am
content: Quote from: Joshua on June 21, 2011, 01:41:40 amWill do.But it's not compiled for 2.0 release version yet.Dave.

author: Joshua
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 02:56:38 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on June 21, 2011, 02:51:07 amThank you, kind sir.

author: MrPlacid
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 03:29:27 am
content: The current karma system is actually a useless features, added only to be scrapped and abused.Replace the karma system with a thank button. A thumb up only could mean anything. A thank you is more specific and kinder too.

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 11:24:13 am
content: I don't like the karma system for two reasons:-(1) If someone asks a question & gets a technically correct answer,but doesn't like it,they can then give the answerer an adverse rating,although they have done nothing wrong.(2) It is frighteningly easy to make a mortal enemy on these forums,so if you upset someone,they can for no sensible reason,give you an adverse rating.If this was a political,or sporting forum,people's opinions are just that,--opinions,but things like electrical laws are not opinions,& there is no use "shooting the messenger".VK6ZGO

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 21, 2011, 12:45:12 pm
content: No, I don't like the Karma system - like several others I prefer the "Thank You" button which is used on one other forum I'm on (www.rmweb.co.uk)

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 01:54:01 pm
content: i had time looking at people's karma here in eevblog for sometime since its started. and i see its a real JOKE!

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:31:55 pm
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on June 28, 2011, 01:54:01 pmI will help you this time, because yours look as -1 , do the same when I will fall back there too.We have to defend our self's, until the carma thingy dies for good.

author: saturation
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:33:04 pm
content: It works for reviews in sites like Amazon but I agree with vk6zgo view, I hope it doesn't turn off newbies who get voted down with low karma simply by asking a question. If that happens, better to do without it.Maybe renaming it to 'thanks' is better, and remove any negative part, so its like a total of positive posts.Quote from: TheWelly888 on June 21, 2011, 12:45:12 pm

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:37:40 pm
content: Who wants Karma for some Bitcoins?I stick by post #6.

author: ivan747
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:40:33 pm
content: Quote from: Kiriakos-GR on June 28, 2011, 02:31:55 pmMine is jumping up and down between 2 and -1.

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:41:51 pm
content: QuoteAdd a capacitor to limit its bandwidth.

author: ElektroQuark
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:47:00 pm
content: Delete the  from the options.

author: Kiriakos-GR
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:51:57 pm
content: Quote from: Alex on June 28, 2011, 02:41:51 pmThat's a great idea, an LC filter will help

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 02:56:57 pm
content: QuoteAnd then post at the fundamental frequency to increase your Karma.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 03:07:22 pm
content: Quote from: ivan747 on June 28, 2011, 02:40:33 pmeverybody's (including mine) karma is jumping up and down cluelessly like glitches in oscilloscope. so let me add the third option [Middle finger UP]! if dave can enable that, will be much more fun.

author: Simon
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 05:19:15 pm
content: I counldn't care less and watched with some humor at my karma go up and down like the stock exchange, and when it was at -11 ? I didn't give a toss, if people take that view there will be no arguments over it. karma wars will only take place when people care about it too much

author: Lightages
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 06:04:08 pm
content: I voted to get rid of the karma system.The reasons are:1. New members might not want to contribute if they get negative karma when they have just joined. I have seen new members with one or two posts with negative karma for nothing.2. New members do not know the current members here and their behavior, so they might take these meaningless numbers as being helpful when deciding who is worth talking to or not.3. Dave benefits from people hanging around and contributing, the more the better for his sponsorships, and this karma system could intimidate new shy members and lower Dave's membership numbersPersonally I don't care what my karma numbers say, but what is best for this forum is best for us all. More sponsorship = more reviews, more blog entries, and Dave can do the best job he can.

author: TheWelly888
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 07:48:30 pm
content: The karma system makes less sense when one can't see which post prompted the thumbs up / down! On RMWeb one can easily see which post got how many thanks.By the way looking at the vote histogram looks like the perfect "up yours" to the karma system!

author: amigo
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 10:52:01 pm
content: - Get rid of the Karma system- Put a THANKS button instead so that people give "thanks" for useful posts. Works well on many sites, across the board.

author: RayJones
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: June 28, 2011, 11:23:46 pm
content: Here's a way to limit the use of thumbs down because somebody has personal issues with someone else opinion.Link thumbs down with a mandatory $10 donation to Dave's benevolent fund.The current fluctuating points are like watching an unwanted dog being kicked about a BBQ event.Open the gate and let the damn mutt out.

author: kaptain_zero
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 12:17:28 am
content: I say can the karma.... The way it is implemented serves no purpose.....RegardsChristianCase in point..... I have two Karma points as of this posting!

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 02:05:50 am
content: My karma ran over my dogma!VK6ZGO

author: Unknown
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 02:16:38 am
content: Quote from: kaptain_zero on June 29, 2011, 12:17:28 amYou have 3 now!For all the value they serve.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: June 29, 2011, 10:18:29 am
content: Ok, it looks like the tribe has spoken, and I agree, I'll ditch the karma system.Will try and put in place a post based thumbs up system when it becomes available for this version.Dave.