Is using/learning Proteus worth it? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 01:16:21 pm
content: Hey everyone. I am currently using Proteus for my simulation and PCB design needs. Is Proteus widely used in the industry? Should I switch to some other software to get better support? If so which one would you recommend?Thanks.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 18, 2020, 02:19:22 pm
content: Proteus isn't used anywhere outside educational markets, But is a very nice tool for the ones starting in electronic, the simulation tool is the best one available easy to use and relative well made The pcb tools is extreme limited but easy to learn and medium quality, but for professional use forget it's only a expensive toy

author: Zero999
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 07:33:26 am
content: Quote from: ebclr on October 18, 2020, 02:19:22 pmThat's not true. I've used it professionally. It's intuitive and fairly easy to use, but does have its quirks.QuoteI haven't used the simulation part before. I use LTSpice for simulation. I'll have to give the Proteus simulation a go.

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 08:46:55 am
content: Thanks for the reply. What would you recommend for PCB design? Have you tried Altium? Is it beginner friendly?

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 09:20:51 am
content: I've used it for easily 25+ yrs, easily run many many 100s, if not 1,000s, pcb through it. I can't recall one time I've been notably let down, and support was also good (haven't needed it for a long time). I (we) don't know what your exact requirements are, but there are many who still use it. There is even a Proteus section here. That's all I can offer at this stage, unless you have specific questions.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 01:47:34 pm
content: Quote from: ExtensionShoe on October 19, 2020, 08:46:55 amI don't think any PCB CAD package is beginner friendly. They all have their quirks and they all have a significant learning curve when you first start using them.If you're in a position to, I'd recommend trying a few and finding what suits you. If you aren't in that position, you won't hurt yourself by picking Altium and acquiring "can use Altium" as a skill. Altium will do 99% of what most users require from a PCB package. Then again, so will most of the other mid-priced packages. It's only when you get into the "If Sir needs to ask the price, Sir probably can't afford it" packages that you'll find capabilities (like EM field solvers) that Altium doesn't have and you don't need, and probably won't for many years, if ever.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 02:01:39 pm
content: Quote from: ExtensionShoe on October 19, 2020, 08:46:55 amHow much budget you have? Because Altium costs thousands of $ per seat and per year. I assume we are not talking a warez/pirated version here, are we? Unless your school has a license for it or your employer has it, forget Altium, IMO.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 02:06:20 pm
content: SDG Electronics use Proteus professionally, it's mainly taught at Uni's etc, it costs AFAIK around £3k for the full suite, the PCB design has come a fair way, it is quite nice to use, as for "industry" I've not personally seen any jobs advertised using it here in the UK, that's not to say they don't exist I just haven't come across any.I see mainly Altium or OrCAD with a sprinkling of CADSTAR.

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 03:02:57 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on October 19, 2020, 02:01:39 pmhttps://www.altium.com/solutions/academic-programs/student-licensesYeah, learn Altium. There will be companies, who use other software, but they will write that you need to have "some" EDA knowledge.And in Altium at least you get a picture of a setting. For example, you get nice windows like this:, instead of cryptic stuff, like "DYN_THERMAL_CON_TYPE = DIAGONAL". (Seriously, do these things come out directly of the source code of a software?)

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 03:30:23 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 19, 2020, 03:02:57 pmI'd suspect the answer to that is: "Yup!".I'd further suspect that it gets used like "source $stuff_i_just_pulled_in_from_the schematic" in some interpreter. Probably little input sanitation and plenty of opportunity to reset internal variables for malicious purposes.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 06:54:14 pm
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 19, 2020, 03:02:57 pmThat assumes the OP is eligible for the license and actually can prove it. They didn't even say they are an university student, so you are jumping to conclusions ...

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 19, 2020, 10:16:47 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on October 19, 2020, 06:54:14 pmOr maybe I'm just trying to help.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 08:53:48 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 19, 2020, 10:16:47 pmWell, my comment you have quoted includes also:"Unless your school has a license for it or your employer has it, forget Altium, IMO."If he has access to it, by all means - but in that case he likely wouldn't be asking about Proteus here, no?

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 09:08:51 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 19, 2020, 03:02:57 pmLolThat'll be Allegro, then. DYN_THERMAL_CON_TYPE is one of a list of properties that can be attached to a via - just right click the via and select 'property edit', and you get the full list. Select any one of them and you get the list of values that the property can take.In Allegro's defence, most of the namesarepretty self explanatory - and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that they do indeed map to an enumerated type in the source code somewhere.

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 10:56:25 am
content: Hey that actually looks very helpful. I am a student at a Uni right now although I am not sure if my uni has a license for Altium. Will definitely ask though. Also what are the main limitations of Altium student license if you dont mind me asking?

author: tszaboo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 01:36:13 pm
content: Quote from: ExtensionShoe on October 20, 2020, 10:56:25 amYou can't make money with it.You might need to renew it every 6 months.I dont think there is any technical limitations for number of components / layers.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2020, 01:41:26 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on October 20, 2020, 08:53:48 amErm, no it doesn't. Yourpreviousmessage does, but he wasn't replying to that.Get a grip man, get a grip.

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 08:49:57 am
content: Quote from: NANDBlog on October 20, 2020, 01:36:13 pmMaking money with it is not my intention but renewing it every six months sounds annoying.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 10:09:02 am
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 20, 2020, 01:41:26 pmHuh what?https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/is-usinglearning-proteus-worth-it/msg3285728/#msg3285728

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 11:31:55 am
content: You really are getting confused - you've linked to yet another different message.

author: janoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 01:08:00 pm
content: Quote from: Cerebus on October 21, 2020, 11:31:55 amAre you trying to gaslight me or you can't see the content of the message showing clearly to what NANDBlog was replying on and what I was reacting to? It is explicitly quoted there.I could make you screenshots but I am not going to going waste more time on this.

author: Cerebus
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 03:20:54 pm
content: Quote from: janoc on October 21, 2020, 01:08:00 pmNo I'm not trying to fool you in any way. You seem to have got muddled. It's not of any great consequence.

author: tooki
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 03:46:56 pm
content: Quote from: ExtensionShoe on October 19, 2020, 08:46:55 amSpeaking from my own personal experience from the last 6 months, before which I’d never once made a PCB, to now, using Altium to design a device with a half dozen boards:Start with EasyEDA. It is a web based tool that actually lives up to its name. It’s free, and has a ton of ready to use footprints for common components (something the others frankly kinda suck at). The designers of EasyEDA clearly borrowed a lot of concepts from Altium, but it’s not full of advanced features for the beginner to trip over. Yet the similarities are enough that then moving to Altium is easy. (When I tried Altium before mastering EasyEDA, it was frustrating me as I got stuck on issues I didn’t understand. But trying itafterEasyEDA was a surprisingly easy transition.) Just don’t expect to be able to easily migrate a schematic from EasyEDA to Altium: EasyEDA’s Altium exporter is currently broken, working only with old versions of Altium.Quote from: janoc on October 19, 2020, 02:01:39 pmFYI, students can get a free licenseregardless of whether their school licenses it.

author: Mechatrommer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 05:18:03 pm
content: dont waste your time on something "crippled". i started earlier with DipTrace, it is somewhat user friendly with lots of help files and youtubes, then i started pilling up components library, then later i felt it is crippled, i cannot make a component with dual independent units, such as dual or quad opamp in one IC, then i tried what everybody and the Admin suggested, go Altium. i downloaded the help/manual files from the website and start reading and practicing, it is somewhat different workflow compared to DipTrace (integrated component/pcb/schematics vs many separated independent programs) but i quickly get a grasp to it and quickly became my user very friendly EDA with one big problem... i cannot easily transfer my DipTrace library into Altium, so that one was trashed i have to redo from beginning, took me years to convert all of them even now i think i havent translated all of them to Altium (mainly due to i'm not using the parts anymore or not yet).so the moral is, its not like you can switch program easily even if you've attended Altium course guru level. and the longer you use the crippled/budget/cheap version the worse it will get, lots of project files and components/footprints libraries will be trashed or need redo in the new shiny program, this is why i hate upgrades, when the new developers came into the programming house they have a tendency to change things without giving much thought to legacy users, let alone another brand's users. the worst thing is changing file format with no forward compatibility whatsoever... if not because of these little little new programs that i have such as ChiTuBox and latest Arduino IDE, latest Chrome and Firefox and Reptier Host that cant be run in WinXP, i wont be installing Win7 64bits few days ago.. but then there's tiny incompatibility with my old real beloved programs, but so far they are bearable, nothing that cant be solved there is still some slight backward compatibilitiness over there.so go on with the story, since i have new OS installed (obsoleted Win7i dont want something unstable that need constant update and auto shutdown such as the venerable Win10 or later) i got a chance to try few other new softwares including the latest Altium 20. my advice is.. dont get Altium 20 it sucks i cant change footprint when i want to place components on schematics. i tried to find the how to help file in Altium web and the net about this big idea of tidiness brilliancy, i cant find it + i sensed some lag and instability while in operation, and it halted few times already, so much so for a new 20th Gen EDA in Win10 64bits age. so it got uninstalled where it deserved, i'm reverting back to V14, highly recommended. if you want latest that is not nonsense probably V18, i saw in youtube guy it still has the footprint panel on the component library screen, not sure about V19. you may check out V17 too (esp if you have VPN), but i can only highly recommend you V14 because thats what i've used for years, i'm not sure if there is still license soldcheers ymmv and best regards happy circuitting.

author: james_s
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2020, 05:47:10 pm
content: EDAs are a bit like programming languages, once you know how to program picking up a new language is largely a matter of learning the syntax. Once you know how to design a PCB learning a new tool is largely a matter of learning the quirks of the particular tool. My suggestion is to learn KiCad, it's completely free with no artificial limitations at all, and you can do whatever you want with it. If you later need to learn Altium or whatever for a job you can pick that up easily enough. Knowing how to design a good PCB is separate from whatever tool you use.

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:07:38 am
content: Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 21, 2020, 05:18:03 pmoh wow thank you for the great insight. I really appreciate it. And yeah I probably should convert to a software like Altium so I won't struggle in the future.

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:50:48 am
content: From Altium 18 they changed the graphics subsystem, from Altium 20 they changed it again and I think it works best with Direct X 12 which is of course only on Windows 10.Version 17 is the last "no bullshit" version, I am currently using 19 and it works fine for what I need.I believe the licenses will work in older versions, but not sure how far back they will work, once you have a license you can choose which version to download, I've asked our Altium rep to enable offline downloads so I can keep the offline installer.

author: ebclr
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:57:42 am
content: Altium is very good and very expensive &&&&& a lot of moneyOrcad is also good and less expensiveDiptrace is simply fast and easy and relatively affordableKicad is good very complicated and free

author: ExtensionShoe
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 08:58:05 am
content: Quote from: Wilksey on October 22, 2020, 08:50:48 amI don't understand why everyone is using older versions of Altium? Is it really that bad? Like is it a deal-breaker thing?

author: Wilksey
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 22, 2020, 05:03:48 pm
content: v19 - v20 had some issues, as a company we run a specific version, that just happens to be v19, I dare say we will upgrade to 20 when we have more time to evaluate if they have fixed the bugs we found.