Do wireless consumer items get tested? - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / rf-microwave

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:05:27 pm
content: If some manufacturer makes some wireless thing for normal people to use in their homes,is that manufacturer required to send their wireless device for testing if it complies with the rules?

author: donmr
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 02:35:41 pm
content: How could they know that it complies with the rules unless they test it?Correct by design is just an imaginary concept that does not exist in the real world except perhaps occasionally by accident.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 03:06:31 pm
content: Quote from: donmr on August 01, 2018, 02:35:41 pmYou misunderstood me,I am asking if every single wireless product must be tested,not if they can approve without test.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 04:25:25 pm
content: You don't run compliance tests on each unit made, only one (or more depends on certification requirements) is tested by the certification lab. Units are being tested for functionality, but that is a different test procedure.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 05:52:30 pm
content: Quote from: Gribo on August 01, 2018, 04:25:25 pmI did not think tests are made for each unit.To be more specific becose you and poster before misunderstood my question.I ask if certification is needed in every case.For example no name/shit tier brand stuff from China on Banggood,Aliexpress,Taobao,Ebay etc... small manufacturers,like one man bussiness,student with Rigol selling whatever for like 10$,you know what I mean.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:12:20 pm
content: If you want to sell them, you need to certify them. Experiments and prototypes are not required to be certified, as long as they are used only within a lab.

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:24:15 pm
content: If you are selling into the EU, you need the Declaration of Conformity that states the device meets all the relevent directives in order to apply the CE mark. How you back that up is down to you. Generally, each unit type will be qualified - this means the manufacturer may have some defense if they are found to be non-compliant. If they don't both doing any testing they could end up with a fine and having to do a full recall and repair / refund of all units sold. That is expensive for any company. Add to that a possible jail term for whoever signed the DoC.A reputable company would perform regular testing of samples of production instruments to check that there has not been any modifications (either design or a different batch of components from a new supplier) that has affected the unit.

author: DavidDLC
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 06:31:55 pm
content: As it was mentioned before: You send some units to be certified.For mass production you can or cannot test the wireless functionality, a good company will test for manufacturing defectsDavid DLC

author: jmelson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 10:16:55 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 01, 2018, 05:52:30 pmYou can be SURE that most of the cheap consumer grade stuff sold on the above sites have NEVER been tested for standards compliance.Jon

author: CopperCone
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 10:46:08 pm
content: a manufacturing plant for quality RF equipment like cell phones will have lots of test equipment. Look what gear got sold when the blackberry plant got shut down. You can be pretty sure they tested their phones quite a bit.Maybe they did not do full RF anechoic testing on their cell phones but they certainly looked at emissions, tested oscillators, analyzed protocols etc. And it looked like they had a few TEM/GTEM cells for doing some tests too. They had high powered test equipment in volume setup with tons of dedicated stations using switch networks and all that good stuff.As for chinese cheap products, from what I gather if you get testing it might be something like someone shoving a device into a old microwave oven with an antenna in it lol

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 01, 2018, 11:53:28 pm
content: The exact rules on just about anything are going to vary depending on the market. It's unlikely the EU rules are exactly the same as US rules or Russian rules or Chinese rules. In the case of wireless, even the frequencies allotted for use may vary between jurisdictions.But generally speaking, only a representative sample gets extensive testing. Everything else gets whatever their quality control team decides is appropriate during manufacture. And any problems that make it out the door and gets sold would be handled as either a store return or by their customer service.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 09:41:45 am
content: How they test? Do they just power it up and walk around it with some antenna to pick up any EMI and look at bandwidth and power? Or do they tear it up and check all the electronics inside?

author: TheUnnamedNewbie
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 10:34:44 am
content: How to test things is often defined in the standard/certification spec you are testing for. Labs that do this for you know how and what is involved. Usually it involves some form of anechoic chamber.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 10:51:00 am
content: Who is they? What are they testing? What technology does it use? How much power does it use? What is its range? Are certifications required? Is external testing required? What rules apply? How are those rules enforced? Etc.Consumer wireless device is a pretty broad term, covering everything from an TV remote control (range = same room) to cell phones that have the potential to contact cell towers as far as 50 miles away.You need to get less vague if you want applicable answers. Not saying I'll know those answers, since we live in completely different places, but someone more local to you might.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 10:53:48 am
content: Nusa Lets use wireless mouse for example.

author: Nusa
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 11:27:09 am
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 02, 2018, 10:53:48 amThat's a start. Low power device, effective range about 2 meters between dongle and mouse.To sell to the USA you need FCC certification. Reading the ID off the back of a Logitech mouse I have, I look it up to find documentation on that process:https://fccid.io/JNZMR0021I'm not even going to try to guess what your actual scenario is. You haven't said.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 12:50:58 pm
content: How much does that test cost? Is it realistic for one man bussiness to get wireless mouse certified?

author: Neilm
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 02, 2018, 06:20:36 pm
content: Quote from: fonograph on August 02, 2018, 12:50:58 pmDepends where you want to sell it - I picked the EU as that is where your flag says you are. As for how much it costs, it depends what standards you have to meet, what tests they require and where the test house is.

author: fonograph
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 09:18:45 am
content: Quote from: Neilm on August 02, 2018, 06:20:36 pmHow about Bluetooth standards.I dont need precise price,just a ballpark figure.Like,is it 100 euro,45k euro,I have no idea.

author: mjs
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 12:53:49 pm
content: Low cost units are not tested much in production. As an example, low cost phones may only be tested with CW signal to check that the RF path components were installed. For high end smart phones, a more thorough performance RF test is done. The measurement equipment and time tend to have a cost.

author: Gribo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 02:44:59 pm
content: You should contact a certification lab. There are lots of parameters, starting from the frequency band, region, number of channels, number of modulation types, spectrum usage method and so on. A simple ASK, 433MHz transmitter is cheaper to certify than a cellular phone with 5 radios on board.

author: NiHaoMike
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 03, 2018, 06:58:53 pm
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 03, 2018, 03:17:13 pmI doubt very many here would "roll their own" Bluetooth solution when there are so many cheap modules out there. Still have to get FCC testing if selling in the US, but using a module apparently simplifies the requirements.

author: ThomasDK
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 04, 2018, 10:53:18 am
content: Quote from: blueskull on August 03, 2018, 03:17:13 pmAnd a must for getting assigned MAC addresses (vendor id).