EEVblog 1651 - Home Electrical Switchboard UPGRADE - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 09:37:51 pm
content: I'm finally upgrading the infamous rats nest home switchboard!https://insightelectrical.com.au/00:00 - A look at the old switchboard03:29 - Single Phase04:57 - Surge protection05:28 - Old school ceramic fuses06:04 - Inside the infamous Rats Nest!08:29 - Simon from Insight Electrical09:09 - Could you still do wiring like this?10:04 - What's the plan?11:12 - A look at the Hager surge protectorhttps://hager.com/au/products/download/product/asset/file/SURGE_BROCHURE_AUS_LOWRES.PDF11:42 - Lightning strikes12:19 - Current clamps and wiring looms12:55 - Service neutral13:16 - When did they stop uses fuses?14:14 - Tesla brand DIN housing15:36 - Why use Hager circuit breakers?16:16 - Electrician toolbag and multimeterhttps://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00036/17:07 - Let's go!17:53 - This is easy peasy18:22 - What's this outdoor switchboard rubbish?19:00 - What's your worst electrical shock?19:41 - Troubleshooting bad wiring & dodgy brand circuit breakers21:02 - I now have a Tesla brand switchboard21:58 - It's looking good!23:05 - Busses24:10 - Asbestos panels?24:47 - Service neutral and Level 1 vs Level 2 vs Level 3 electrical licenses25:49 - Future upgrades?26:46 - Average sized Australian home27:34 - Wire strippers are for appentices!27:47 - Made in China vs Made in Germany28:09 - Why no bus bar for the neutral?28:49 - How common is 3 phase in homes?30:27 - Finished panel!31:44 - A look at the final job next day

author: flipper
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 11, 2024, 11:51:29 pm
content: That’s a HORRIFIC mess. You’re an engineer, and you allowed that to be in your home? Try that here in England and you’d possibly end up in jail.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 04:07:08 am
content: Quote from: flipper on November 11, 2024, 11:51:29 pmElectrically it was completely safe and it was to code. It's just messy wiring due to half a dozen additions over the last 20 years.

author: 1fast4door
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 07:32:27 am
content: Is this the first mention of the a new EEV clamp meter coming? Is there any info in what the new model will be?

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 09:45:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 12, 2024, 04:07:08 amAs Dave said in the video, the "messy" look is very, very common.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 09:51:45 am
content: But .... what's this I see...?HOW many strands are in that fuse ?!!!

author: lowimpedance
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 10:06:19 am
content: Quote from: Brumby on November 12, 2024, 09:51:45 amThat's because it would've been hard to get a fencing nail through that hole..

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 12, 2024, 08:14:09 pm
content: The labeling is pretty awful. 'light light power power AC AC AC' - okay, which one? Just flip a few and see? Is it even really known where any of those go?Why the mix of single and double pole devices?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 12:56:08 am
content: Quote from: 1fast4door on November 12, 2024, 07:32:27 amNot a clamp, BM2257

author: WIMPy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 13, 2024, 11:58:25 pm
content: Am I the only one who sees a little issue with the new setup?The 63A "main switch" surely looked a lot like a MCB. So I looked up the part number. And surely it actually is a 63A MCB mit C-characteristic.So whenever you get a short circuit anywhere, not only would the MCB for that circuit trip, but the main 63A one as well.That's not good.That should be replaced by a simple isolating switch. Or if there's some reason for it to be a circuit breaker, it should have E-characteristic.But as there's the incoming main fuse already, I see no need.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 12:14:31 am
content: Quote from: WIMPy on November 13, 2024, 11:58:25 pmNot quite. Look up "discrimination" between electrical protective devices.This was the first link that came up which describes it in laymans terms :https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/3.8.6.htmThis is something we bump up against regularly when doing critical service reviews. Stacked protective devices are absolutely common and done with adequate attention to ratings and curves provide the correct device fault sequencing.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:29:48 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 12:14:31 amExcept such attention hasn't been given. Those are all C curve, which means a genuine short is just as likely to take out the C63 as any other device.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:49:35 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 01:29:48 amThey don't have to be different curve devices, they just need to ensure the trip characteristics don't intersect at the likely fault currents.A simple rule of thumb is triples. In Australia, common GPO circuits can use up to a 20A protection device (still commonly 16A). With a 63A main switch, it's highly likely the fault current available to a 20A GPO circuit will trip the 20A device before the 63A device gets out of bed even if they both have the same curve.If we were talking about a house wired in superconductors, then your point might be valid. But the impedance of the circuits reduces the theoretical maximum fault current. In practice it works.Regardless, behind the 63A MCB is going to be a set of primary protection devices (HRC fuses commonly) between the meter and the street, so there's another variable to consider.

author: WIMPy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:55:29 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 12:14:31 amAs has already been pointed out, there isn't any in this case.Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 12:14:31 amI was specifically talking about short circuits.Even if the individual circuits were B types and the main breaker was of type D, it would still be an issue.It would only help with a moderate overload over a longer period of time where the thermal trigger responds differently.With a short circuit it's about the magnetic trigger and that's the same on B, C and D types.That's why I recommended the E type, which doesn't have a magnetic trigger.And it's not really about either of them tripping at random. They will almost certainly both trip simultaneously.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 01:57:28 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 01:49:35 amThis is all well and good if your PSC/PFC is small. This may well not be the case for one of those (needlessly) C32 devices. Did you see PSC or PFC measured? I didn't.The majority of events may well not reach the full fault current and thereby not magnetically operate the C63 device, but that's not designing for discrimination, that's chance.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:02:24 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 01:49:35 amWithout having actually tested it, this would be what I would expect.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:04:57 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 02:02:24 amAnd there's the crux of the issue.Was any real testing done? Sure, someone may have walked around with a socket tester and roughly verified polarity and the vague presence of an earth, but were any actual tests done? Are the protective devices known to operate?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:29:54 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 02:04:57 amI had to leave early so did not get to see what testing they did, apart from another guy who went inside with a tester.I am not the least bit concerned about shorts. There are literally three inline fuses of various types, and they are a top name brand, and I'm on BradC with this that in practice it won't be a problem.You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.In my 20 years in the house I have never ever had a short happen. The only faults have been product earth leakage issues that have tripped the RCD.You are the one that actually recommendedremovingone of those three protection devices and replacing with a switch. No thanks, I'll take the extra 63A breaker. I don't care that in the extremely remote possibility that there is a short, that it trips the entire house. It's a non issue.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:34:26 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 02:29:54 amYou are perhaps not understanding the issue being discussed.QuoteOr, indeed, tracking the conversation accurately. I haven't made any sort of recommendation. I'm also not scared of 240V and yet reassured by safety systems put together by rote and "she'll be right" rather than engineering.QuoteFine. Having been the one having to make my way downstairs and turn the power back on in darkness because of lack of discrimination, I do.It's your house, after all. But funnily enough, when you post videos people will watch them and raise questions and criticisms. You needn't take them personally.. especially when you didn't design or install any of it. You're seeing a mountain when people are discussing the mole hill.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:25:02 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 02:34:26 amSorry, that was Wimpy.QuoteThat fine. But I simply don't think it's going to be a problem as claimed. I think it will work in practice as BradC has mentioned.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:34:22 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 03:25:02 amProbably will be. I, and probably WIMPy, am approaching this from the perspective of the engineering of a safety system deployed billions of times over. "Usually okay" isn't reassuring to me in that context. Nor is "usually just an inconvenience".You could test the discrimination in practice if you feel adventurous.. Or perhaps have Mehdi visit?

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:37:55 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 03:25:02 amEasy way to check (and yes, we do this in critical server rooms when demonstrating to clients they have the discrimination wrong after a theoretical review) is get a standard 3 pin plug and wire the active and neutral across a decent sized switch. "flick, boom". What trips?Honestly, dead shorts across a GPO are pretty rare but they do happen. When I was a lot younger I was re-stringing a guitar on my desk. One of the strings flicked up and came down across the pins of a plug that was slightly dislocated from the socket shorting active and neutral. It made a mess and tripped the anticipated breaker rather than the main. These days that wouldn't happen because the plugs all have insulation on their pins up to the termination point.One of my other fun tricks is to wire a 16A fuse wire between active a neutral on a 3 pin plug, plug the plug into an extension cord and switch it on (at a distance). Sometimes the empirical tests can be quite illustrative.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 03:51:08 am
content: Quote from: BradC on November 14, 2024, 03:37:55 amBearing in mind the results can be drastically different depending on whether the outlet is on the other side of the house or the other side of the wall. The C32s are of markedly more concern than C16s, being closer to the magnetic characteristics (technically, they could be identical) and much lower impedance circuits.It's probably worth pointing out that I, at least, am from a country with a ready selection of TN-C-S, TN-S, TT, and hybridshudderinstallations. It can be hazardous to assume both function and discrimination of protective devices.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 04:45:07 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 03:34:22 amEven if I did that, and only the 20A tripped, you'd still argue it's engineered wrong. So what's the point?All I care about is that is the wiring in my house is protected (which is the sole job of a fuse/breaker). It's in fact safer than it was before with just the 63A switch and the main street fuse.

author: Monkeh
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:05:20 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 04:45:07 amIf it's actually engineered and discrimination can be demonstrated, why would I make such an argument?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 05:13:00 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 05:05:20 amYou literally just did in the previous post:Quote

author: WIMPy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:13:25 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 14, 2024, 02:04:57 amYes. I did make the same mistake back then.So this was not just hypothetical, but a known issue to me.Yes, I do agree that short circuits are rare. But I wouldn't like the idea to have to whole house cut off if it did happen.And here that installation wouldn't be up to code because of that possibility.And to Dave:I'm surprised by your reaction. I just pointed out a potential issue. And after all you mentioned a fridge becoming a bio hazard area because of a similar issue (even with a more likely cause that has been eliminated now).And also I didn't just recommend to replace the main fuse by a switch, but alternatively with an E-type breaker.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:31:10 am
content: Quote from: lowimpedance on November 12, 2024, 10:06:19 amNot a fencing nail, #8 fencing wire, a.k.a. 50-amp extra-slow-blow fuse.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 06:39:53 am
content: Quote from: Monkeh on November 12, 2024, 08:14:09 pmThis labelling is unfortunately standard here even on very recent installs. Saves the sparky some time, you know.The traditional form (1980s and earlier) is hardboard backing, ceramic or plug-in fuses/circuit breakers, gaps where things have been removed, and either printed labels saying "light light light power power power" or handwritten labels in white saying what the circuit may have done at some point in the past.And if you're really lucky there'll be some asbestos in there somewhere too.Case in point:Cheers guys, very useful!That's the newer sub-board, this is the main house board:Note that the "light"-labelled circuits aren't necessarily for lighting, they're just arranged by tradition as { RCD, power, power, light } whether they're power or light or not. And this was after removing the wiring that led to the label "MCB does not disconnect power, use RCD to shut down group" (luckily I always double-check everything from two sides, which turned up the wiring loop that created this case).

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 07:02:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 02:29:54 amNever underestimate the value of RCDs for finding these things. My partner bought some Chinesium slow cooker from Kmart that tripped the RCD when used, we'd never have known without the RCD. Imagine using that in the kitchen with wet hands...

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:01:09 am
content: Quote from: WIMPy on November 14, 2024, 06:13:25 amWhat's wrong with me thinking it's ok and not as big a deal as you are making out?

author: WIMPy
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:25:56 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 08:01:09 amNoting. It's obviously entirely up to you to decide what's important to you.It's just after you mentioned that fridge incident, I thought I'd better point out that you have a potential for a deja vu there.Sure it's nowhere near as likely as with one RCD for all circuits, but short circuits can happen.And as I made exactly that mistake in the past, I thought I'd share it, so others can avoid a potentially major annoyance.We all know that Murphy will ensure it hits you at the most inconvenient time, don't we?

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 08:37:50 am
content: The markings can be a bit anoying, if one needs to deenergize to do some repairs (e.g. replace a switch or lamp). Still it is not such a big issue, just a few more tries maybe. It could also help if there are random RCD trips and finding out which devices are actually on that circuit - the nasty ones (like an extra rarely used outlet at the outside or in the basement that got humidity) may be missed with labeling anyway.If wanted one could add additional lables later.Today tripping breakers is not longer that common - it was an issue with old incandecent light bulbs when they burn out. The more likely tripping todays is when turning on a consumer with high inrush current (SMPS, motor, transformer) or some RCD tripping e.g. via mains transients and plenty of capacitance to PE from multiple SMPS.There can be a benefit from having the mains switch as a breaker that reacts a bit faster than the main fuse from supplier. If that fuse blows it can take some time to get it replaced. With only 63 A single phase it is not that impossible to get an overload situation.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:09:30 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on November 14, 2024, 06:39:53 amThe problem with labels is that they often fade and the glue wears off.Some sparkies will use proper pre-printed labels, and higher quality ones like engraved aluminimum.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:13:05 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on November 14, 2024, 08:37:50 amYes, I didn't have that ability before, so the extra 63A main breaker over the old switch is an improvement.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 09:16:37 am
content: Quote from: Kleinstein on November 14, 2024, 08:37:50 amI have never actually know which breaker relates the which power point in the house, as it's not that obvious in my original house wiring, and is a little bit random.To do this I'd have the label every power point in the house, never botherd to do that.Ones like the AC don't really matter, because if I ever wanted to work on an AC it's easy enough to just switch them all off.In my lab I have them labelled as "near wall" and "far wall" because they are nicely separated.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 10:07:21 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 09:16:37 amI've foundthisto be quite useful for that, it recently allowed me to fairly precisely trace out a particular wiring run in an area where two different NCV's wouldn't even give a reading. A while back you reviewed one of their other products, maybe they'd send you the one in the linked post for review.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 11:49:16 am
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on November 14, 2024, 10:07:21 amProbably easier to just turn off each breaker and then walk around and test and label as I go.

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 14, 2024, 02:03:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 09:09:30 amGenuine Brother P-Touch does not fade nor does the glue wear off. Some fingerprints also do not really matter, as long as the surface is dust free.I have various labels that are in wind and weather and sun. They stick, as long as no one nibbles at the corners. I had a couple on stainless steel that even stuck too well and could not be removed without much effort.

author: BradC
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:16:52 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:49:16 amMy place was a nightmare. 3 Phase and the original 1969 board more convoluted than yours. My living room had 3 separate sockets on 3 separate circuits on 3 separate phases. I did what you were suggesting but in reverse. I turned everything on, then flicked off one breaker at a time doing a walk around to see what was where. I then produced a drawing in AutoCAD (just because I have it and know how to use it) and used that to produce legends for the switchboard. I printed those out on an A4 Avery self adhesive label, "laminated" them with quality 3M tape and cut them out so they fit the switchboard.Since then we've had a new 3 phase AC install and I haven't got around to updating the legends.

author: golden_labels
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 03:48:28 am
content: And this is a 1970s Soviet era building: a box for an apartment.The door is missing, because a renovation team broken it out at some point to get into the box. Housing coöp taped it twice with packing tape, which held for no more than some weeks. Finally somebody torn it off completely.Mine still has the door and is connected to earth. Unlike the one photographed, where the earth wire was removed along with the door.

author: Eka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 05:28:51 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on November 14, 2024, 02:03:00 pmI second the Genuine Brother P-Touch being very long lasting. I used them when I rewired my parents farm over 23 years ago, and wired my new farmhouse on the farm. Still fine 20 years later when I sold the farm. This includes the labels on the outside outlets.I've already printed most of the labels for my dads 1950s vintage house rewire nightmare. 3 panels with no master circuit breaker on their input, and no room to install one. If I did, it would have to be at the bottom because the main wires all enter at the bottom, and go direct to the buss rails. They are 1950s vintage Square D QO Line panels. Judging from the part number on a label, I think they are first generation QO Line. Most of the circuit breakers were also from the first generation of the QO line. All the wiring is rubberized glass fiber cloth insulation. Everything must be replaced if anything is touched by a licensed electrician. At least the laws allow the homeowner to do their own work. I redid the HVAC panel first and moved all basement circuits to it. I'm 90% of the way through redoing the kitchen panel, and about 25% of the way through redoing the garage panel. The electrician doing the inspections of my work last time asked if there was any reason to come out because my previous inspections passed with no issues. This is all in preparation for installing a solar system.

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 07:24:49 am
content: Quote from: Ranayna on November 14, 2024, 02:03:00 pm+1 for those. In fact they're a nightmare to get off, when we redid the wiring here (see the photos in a previous post) I had to scrape them off the a razor blade, nothing would move them, and that was ten years after they were applied. So no concerns about them peeling or fading.

author: Eka
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: November 15, 2024, 05:47:54 pm
content: Quote from: 5U4GB on November 15, 2024, 07:24:49 amThey have three levels of stick that I know of. Normal that can be removed, but sticks harder and harder with time. Security is much harder to peal off and leaves a checkerboard patterned glue mess behind. Then there is Extra Strength. Yeah, get out the scraper. I hope you didn't put it on a plastic surface. Note: All of them are sun and weatherproof. I only used normal for the labels on the farm.

author: bartgrefte
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 11:06:59 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 07:58:35 amThat's a lot of circuit breakers, I'm jealous. The 90's Dutch style circuit breaker box here only has 3 breakers, for the entire houseBreaker 1: Half of the houseBreaker 2: Other half, including all but one of the walloutlets in the kitchenBreaker 3: 1 walloutlet in the kitchen, used by the washingmachine.Earth leakage breaker: Doubles as main switch to cut off power to the entire house..... and yes, that is uninsulated copper under the breakers, apparently that was allowed back then.Since last year our non-smart digital meter, that spat out 4 kWh-counters once per 10-15 seconds using IEC 62056-21and a blinking LED for power (1 pulse per Wh, had a BPW34 photodiode to monitor that), got replaced by a smart one, of theDSMR5variety.Now I get 4 kWh-counters, total power in, total power out, grid voltage (rounded off to whole numbers), grid voltage swells, grid voltage drops, current and the counter of the wirelessly connected smart gasmeter, once per secondThough the gasmeter's counter is only updated one per 5 minutes since it runs off a battery.Example data message to give an idea:Code:/Ene5\XS210 ESMR 5.01-3:0.2.8(50)0-0:1.0.0(171105201324W)0-0:96.1.1(*serialnumber*)1-0:1.8.1(000051.775*kWh)1-0:1.8.2(000000.000*kWh)1-0:2.8.1(000024.413*kWh)1-0:2.8.2(000000.000*kWh)0-0:96.14.0(0001)1-0:1.7.0(00.335*kW)1-0:2.7.0(00.000*kW)0-0:96.7.21(00003)0-0:96.7.9(00001)1-0:99.97.0(0)(0-0:96.7.19)1-0:32.32.0(00002)1-0:32.36.0(00000)0-0:96.13.0()1-0:32.7.0(229.0*V)1-0:31.7.0(001*A)1-0:21.7.0(00.335*kW)1-0:22.7.0(00.000*kW)0-1:24.1.0(003)0-1:96.1.0(4730303538353330303031313633323137)0-1:24.2.1(171105201000W)(00016.713*m3)!8F46And that's just single phase, with triple phase there's also power in and out per phase, grid voltage (plus drops and swells) per phase, current per phase.Add to that the former Tuya (flashed to Tasmota) smartplug, 4 Shelly Plugs, 10 Shelly Plus Plug S's and 4 Shelly PM Mini gen3's, I got a pretty good idea of where most of the power is going. Though too bad the smartplugs don't send data as often as the smart meter, that screws up thesankey chartsin Home Assistant a bit

author: 5U4GB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 16, 2024, 12:40:58 pm
content: Quote from: bartgrefte on November 16, 2024, 11:06:59 amThis sounds like the Black Books filing system: "This is bubbly-boo, this is misc, and the rest are other" :-).

author: Black Phoenix
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 04:39:45 pm
content: I really don't understand what people are worried about:https://youtu.be/r3EpsK-HE3c?si=wIGKpe05MkSytoqDCompared with this above, Dave's is a 5 star install.My main thing about Dave's install is: Dave is really both Live and Neutral from the company coming behind the panel and then through the perforation to the front? Even with the seals in the front, is as easy as opening the back panel and doing the piggyback there no?

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 10:03:00 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 11:49:16 amFYI, Mrs EEVblog just vetoed labeling the outlets, it's "ugly".

author: nctnico
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 25, 2024, 11:47:16 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 25, 2024, 10:03:00 pmThat settles it: the outlets get painted! That is how I distinguish the circuits feeding my lab.

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 12:37:41 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 14, 2024, 07:58:35 amMy thoughts on the European wiring.The board seems to be a demo setup as opposed to a real installation, not really a fair comparison.But even so, AFAICT they are sharing RCDs between subcircuits, if that is true I dislike that.Yes busbar looks neat but its a bitch to make changes or repairs on. The lifetime on a switchboard needs to be 30+ years, different brands/models of RCBO over the next 30+ years makes repairs sometimes difficult, not every model fits every busbar.Also in my experience busbar is more likely to be accidently left untightened. Causing a plastic meltdown if you're lucky.One other thing the Europeans do differently is the conduit going to F1. They leave a gap in the conduit rather than having it attached to the junction box. To me this seems weird and looks weird but obviously it isn't an issue otherwise they wouldn't do it.As to Dave's switchboard/meter box.Would've been nice to upgrade the meter box to a current model metal one. (Yes it is quite a bit of hassle). I don't think they've installed the hinged versions since the 1980s?The hinged ones always look like a nightmare and have that horrible soldered earth blob.As far as schematics and labelling. IMO residential stuff doesn't need it, but it is nice to have functional labelling like upstairs lights, shed power etc.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 02:11:13 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on November 26, 2024, 12:37:41 amFor what advantage? The old one still works perfectly fine, perfect weather and creepie crawlie track record, looks fine from the outside, and has a nice swing out panel for easy wiring access if needed.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 02:12:05 am
content: Quote from: nctnico on November 25, 2024, 11:47:16 pmThe thought of getting coloured cover plates crossed my mind...

author: HackedFridgeMagnet
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 02:56:27 am
content: Quote from: EEVblog on November 26, 2024, 02:11:13 amI'll admit there's probably zero net advantage to upgrading the meter box if it isn't broken. Especially if it is in good condition.Personally I hate the swing panel boxes, they do always seem to be a mess and it doesn't leave much room for many circuit breakers, let alone CTs. I like the newer meter boxes much better.https://www.clipsal.com/products/circuit-protection/resi-max/meter-box-queensland-nsw-21-modules-with-meter-isolation-link-230draqtpl?itemno=230DRAQTPL

author: Ranayna
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 26, 2024, 08:37:49 am
content: Quote from: HackedFridgeMagnet on November 26, 2024, 12:37:41 amGenerally true in Germany. Often only a single RCD is used for the whole house or residental unit.Technically it's fine, i never have had issues with spurious trips. But it can be bloody annoying if it trips when it's dark.For that reason my brother separated the lighting circuits to a separate RCD, but that isn't standard and costs extra.