EEVblog 1645 - $80 Quick TS11 Soldering Station REVIEW - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 13, 2024, 11:46:33 pm
content: Is the US$80 Quick TS11 80W Soldering station any good?SPOILER: Nope, it's pretty terrible.https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DeqZYGH

author: Helio_Centra
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 12:46:43 am
content: Those tips look like Hakko T12 tips. Would be interesting if they are cross compatible.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 12:56:37 am
content: Quote from: Helio_Centra on October 14, 2024, 12:46:43 amThey seem smaller. My Hakko T12 ripoff is down i nthe bunker so I can't readily confirm.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 02:10:27 am
content: UI is the only good thing about this. Otherwise, a $30 T12 stuff from AliExpress would do much better and there is an actual selection of tips.It is also strange to see them still use that transformer. 100W switching supply is trivial to do. But I guess then there is no difference from the same $30 T2 stations.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 03:02:08 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 14, 2024, 02:10:27 amOne advantage of a transformer is peak load handling. A 100 W transformer can easily output much more (maybe even 200 W) in transient load situations, while a switching supply will throttle its output if you try to load it in the same way. So a transformer based supply could be more flexible in use.

author: ataradov
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 03:06:41 am
content: Maybe, but this design does not seem to demonstrate any sort of thermal performance. Half the cost is in the transformer, and the whole design seems very imbalanced.

author: IanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 03:10:59 am
content: Quote from: ataradov on October 14, 2024, 03:06:41 amThat was very clear from the video, and I agree.I have an $80 Hakko station with a transformer-based supply, and its performance is vastly superior to the Quick station reviewed here. When I put the Hakko tip on a big copper sheet, it pours out heat like a firehose and melts solder over a large area.

author: Kleinstein
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 08:57:27 am
content: Having a transformer inside gives it enough weight to not be draged around with the cable. So the old style transformer makes some sense. It would be nice if one could connect the stand to the station too.The tips seem to really have an issue with the thermal design. If the sensor is too close to the heater, the sensor temperature may be spot on and thus also not much power delivered, but not the tip. At least the initial heat up looks like it is pretty fast - so it may use it maximum power there. With the power only used for a short time during heat up, there is no problem using more than the transformer rating.The station itself may be OK, just the tips are not.It would have been nice to have the station puged to a power meter to see how much power it actually uses when soldering.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 08:31:29 pm
content: The fact there doesn't seem to be any sizable power delivered to the tip after the initial heat up may be a hardware problem, but I do suspect a firmware bug.From what I saw in the video, the display of temperature doesn't change and so seems to display only the set temperature rather than the actual one. (I don't know if there's a setting to switch modes or if I missed it.)It all reeks of either a very sloppy hardware implementation, or again a bunch of bugs/limitations of the firmware. Does the thing even sense the tip temperature properly?

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 09:11:23 pm
content: Inside, the electronics look pretty good - the transformer is fine they never see 100% load for a long time anyway. But the shipping costs are high for this station due to the extra weight. It's almost $200 now.I see it's using a triac to control the heater. AC like JBC?Ahaha the SOP-8 CC6903SO-10A is a current-sensor in series with the triac. So it knows heater current.There is a non-populated opto U9 guessing it's for the shake switch but you don't need isolation for that.The temperature display is obviously propagandized- it's always perfect and does anyone believe the msecs warm up time?I'd give it the wet sponge/glass of water dunk and see how it behaves with a known heat sink. The big copper ground plane soldering test it's hard to know the what is limiting the heat transfer.Working with these controllers, I've spoofed thermocouple temperature to flush out S/W bugs.Typical chinese F/W struggles are reading the thermocouple properly, filtering out noise (averaging) and blanking when the heater is on. It must be skipping mains cycles or trying to read it at zero-cross.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2024, 10:16:22 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 14, 2024, 09:11:23 pmWhen the entire tip is put horizontal on a wet sponge the power meter goes to half way or even 3/4 and then cycles back down to zero and back up every second or so.

author: Nominal Animal
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 11:10:35 am
content: Being able to tweak the iron behaviour, and having short tips with a thermal sensor in the tip, is why I just got me a Pinecil v2. I haven't even used it yet. It runsRalim's IronOS. If I don't like the interface in the iron, I can change it. It does also have BLE, so I can change anything on it using a computer, or make my own user interface using e.g. an ESP32.For positioning ICs carefully on a board I'm planning something pretty funky: I have a cheap XY table used on some micro mills (not Proxxon, but same size class), so all I need is an unobtrusive overhead "arm" that can keep the IC in place, maybe rotate it in the board plane. Instead of nudging the IC, I'll move the PCB by the tiniest of increments. Requires the overhead IC support arm to be quite rigid in the XY plane, though.Hey, stop laughing at me. If it works, it works!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 06:40:33 pm
content: Quote from: EEVblog on October 14, 2024, 10:16:22 pmThe dancing heater power bar graph does not instill confidence lol. I hear a wha wha whaaa.You could try a mains power meter on it and see if it manages to draw anything near rated power or it's smoke and mirrors.Some cartridges have terrible heat transfer from heater to tip and the thermocouple heats up fast instead, and it then backs off heat, repeat as a controller oscillates.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 15, 2024, 09:05:39 pm
content: Quote from: IanB on October 14, 2024, 03:02:08 amJBC clones with SMPS are claiming this as well, eg geeboon peak power 240W with continuous of 190W. So not as extreme but clearly designed around the fact that thermocouple based irons will only ever use peak power at turn on and then never again. Unless you dunk it in water which is not a normal soldering scenario.Quote from: Kleinstein on October 14, 2024, 08:57:27 amYes this is highly likely. Bad firmware won't give you a result like this.Another reason why using proprietary tips as a small player is a dumb idea.At least with JBC or T12 clones, you can go and buy tips that you know are properly manufactured if you have issues with the included ones.QuoteAgree though I'm sure the power meter is accurate and its using ~80W when powered on and then only ~10-20W on that plane.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 16, 2024, 03:03:12 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 15, 2024, 06:40:33 pmMy JBC has a power meter and it goes to 85% and stays there on the same test.

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2024, 05:51:57 am
content: It may be the design of the tips indeed, namely the design/location of the thermocouple inside the tip (for which JBC has done a really good job). They may have noise issues too with the thermocouple sensing. It does likely point in any case to the temperature sensing - which may be the reason why they decided not to display live temperature. It's probably too bad to be displayed. The regulation algorithm may also be complete crap.

author: Doctorandus_P
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 16, 2024, 12:59:01 pm
content: Just the incompatibility with widely available (clone) tips is enough to turn me off. Long time ago I was interested in the TS80, but I changed my mind as it also has a relatively small selection of tips, and I do not really need the small form factor. I thought about T12 clones for a long time, but in the end I decided on a C245 clone from GSGER. I thought about buying only the parts I need, because I do not trust (or want) the power supply in it, but buying parts (solder stand, iron, handle, wiring, control board, spare tips) was too much of a bother so I ordered a complete set a few days ago. I'll see how it will go, but I still plan to use a decent Meanwell 24V 10A power supply.I will probably buy a few spare PCB's (with uC, encoder and display) just to play with. One of the reasons I find these things attractive is because there is open source software available for them. I don't care much for most of the complicated functions, but with Open Source firmware it's quite easy to fix some (remaining) bugs or add small features.One function I would like is a "boost" function to get the temperature to 450c or so to burn off the coating of "enameled" wiring. A hotter temperature also helps with soldering TO220 to a big GND plane.And for the 24V 3A transformer in this Quick soldering iron, as other have already said, you can overload transformers significantly for short durations, so it's plenty to get an occasional 100W burst out of it. With industrial servo motors this is normally explicitly written in the specifications. for example a 400W 1.3Nm servo under continuous load, can hanlle up to 3Nm torque peaks. With welding transformers it's the other way around they often specify the maximum power they can deliver, and looking deeper you see they can only handle this with a 20% duty cycle. With mains transformers, the print is normally for the continuous full load, but you can never be sure with the chinese.

author: .RC.
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 17, 2024, 08:43:51 am
content: Looks like the most important thing I took away from this is you need a big tip and a wet sponge.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 10:44:30 am
content: I think it's an issue with tolerances in the cartridges rather than the station, still an issue nonetheless, but I'd put this in the same category as a JBC T210 station rather than anything bigger.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 20, 2024, 11:33:38 pm
content: Quote from: SteveyG on October 20, 2024, 10:44:30 amSo they are in the "category" of 20W cartridges then?Regardless, I don't see the power meter puttin' out like it should and suspect the firmware is dodgy.It's unfortunate the chinese cannot make a decent stand. They copy and cheapen existing designs and it says alot for them to be unable to make something elegant instead of cheap. I hate their stands, all of them.I have a vintage made in Detroit USA sponge stand that cannot be beat.

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 05:04:00 am
content: Quote from: SteveyG on October 20, 2024, 10:44:30 amYour video shows around 40W peak ability into a large load, not far off my power figure for the water testing.It seems it can't deliver close to the claimed 80W.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 11:15:17 am
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 20, 2024, 11:33:38 pmI don't think it's firmware, I think the station just isn't seeing the temperature drop because of bad thermocouple placement. The temperature on the screen is "sticky", but I did see it dropping several times once it thought it was more than 5C off the setpoint.

author: Xena E
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 03:29:17 pm
content: Quote from: Nominal Animal on October 15, 2024, 11:10:35 amOff topic and late I know but~The following picture was amongst some sent me by a student who had created an 'SMD hold down jig', I can't find those of the finished item unfortunately, it was equipped with a stylus illumination work light, but the picture shows the general form.The individual produces some incredibly neat work so I'm assuming that the device works well. The main prerequisite is that the pressure provided by the tip of the stylus is at all times perpendicular to the table, and offers maximum access.X

author: EEVblog
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 10:34:38 pm
content: Quick replied:Quote

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 21, 2024, 11:53:18 pm
content: QuoteI will have to say its not an ideal handpiece for joints below 2mm though, for that you are looking at handpiece like T210 or T115 with incredibly short grip to tip distance and smaller thermal mass. But it can work OK, its partly personal preference.I believe they can fix the tips as they say, power is simply a matter of tweaking the heater coil resistance.Performance is quality and consistency of how the thermocouple is mated to the copper tip. Should have no issues matching T12 or TS100, assuming their factory is capable + paid enough.

author: SteveyG
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 23, 2024, 08:04:20 pm
content: Quote from: thm_w on October 21, 2024, 11:53:18 pmI don't really get why the cartridges are so long. It's obvious from the construction where the heater is, so there appears to be no real technical reason for the tip to stick out so far.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2024, 08:30:39 pm
content: The handle gets HOT after a short while due to the heat transfer. I think this is why you need the length.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 23, 2024, 11:53:16 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 23, 2024, 08:30:39 pmOn which iron? Its not something I've experienced on any of the top brands.Though I usually solder a bit, put the tip in holder where it sleeps, then 30s later solder something else, so not high use. For high use on T245 JBC "solved" this by providing a foam grip as extra insulation.

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 03:24:55 am
content: All various chinese clone T12 handles - they have to be long enough to not conduct so much heat as to melt the socket. So most of the length goes into the handle but there is a sleeve/washer to prevent the cartridge from wiggling around at the open end, and this is where the heat transfer happens.You can use them for maybe 15-20 minutes before they get annoyingly warm.Then there is the "silicone grip" which is just a piece of silicone tubing- smooth and slippery, transfers heat. Basically useless.I don't consider this thread to be about "top brands". The strategy is to copy and cheapen existing designs but with no refinement. Price is king.

author: thm_w
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 25, 2024, 11:08:31 pm
content: Quote from: floobydust on October 25, 2024, 03:24:55 amOut of curiosity measured after 20 minutes outside of the stand, ambient = 24C, Tip temp = 370C:Code:Model - Grip temp - Shank temp- JBC T210 clone - 42C - 76C- JBC T115 clone - 67C - 130C- FM2027 (T12) - 47C - 88C- Hakko FX1001 - 39C - 97C- Metcal MX-RM3E - 44C - 90C- Metcal MX-H1-AV - 37C - 84CThe t115 was definitely finger burningly hot, but I would never use it that long. And down to ~46C once you put the foam grip on.The T12 was not terrible at 47C, but some might find that annoying. I don't know why its worse than C210 when the distance is so much greater on it, maybe the metal cup at the end of the JBC handles is the key.One thing the clone T12 handles miss is texturing/ribbing the silicone on the outside which Metcal has and helps a lot.Even though the Hakko temperature was not too high, you'll feel it a bit more as the surface is smooth, so more area to transfer heat to your finger tips.QuoteAgree, though I'd rather they just copy a top brand than release another proprietary inferior product onto the market. But I know many disagree.