Coffee machines revisited, with an emphasis on controllability - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 12:40:37 pm
content: This thread from about five years agohttps://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/suggestions-for-a-new-coffee-machine/discusses coffee machines from a general POV, with everything from stovetop percolators to high-end "don't ask the price" machines mentioned.Can anybody comment on machines or ranges of machines that they are aware of, with an accessible serial/diagnostic port which allows their operation to be controlled and their status monitored?The standard bearer for this type of kit appears to be Jura, which are expensive but not eye-watering:https://hackaday.com/2016/01/28/hacking-a-coffee-machine/https://hackaday.com/2019/04/26/make-that-special-cup-of-coffee-by-completely-tweaking-the-coffee-machine/...plus projects on Github etc.My thoughts are that starting with something like that, which at a minimum offer bean-to-cup and sometimes fancy recipes with milk delivery etc., it should be comparatively simple to add e.g. a carousel for different bean types (at a minimum, real vs decaff), and possibly to add overall control using something like Mycroft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycroft_(software)).MarkMLl

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 12:53:02 pm
content: No idea if it allows lots of control of a coffee machine, but a long time I made a card reader system to interface with a coffee maker machine that used the Wiegand protocol.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_interfaceThe idea was to have the customers preference on the card so it must have been possible to control that specific machine, but I can't remember which machine it was. We are talking 1996-1997.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 01:00:35 pm
content: I think that one of the uses of the obfuscated Jura port is to interface with POS equipment... presumably they supply a detailed protocol manual to their licensees.MarkMLl

author: pcprogrammer
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 01:10:59 pm
content: I do remember that the company I did the work for was in contact with the manufacturer of the coffee machine and that they provided specifications, so yes, most likely proprietary.They also supplied a machine to modify and incorporate the board I developed into it. Was to accept smart cards. Might well be that I still have a proto board lying aroundNo idea if there is an open standard for communicating with coffee makers by now.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 01:26:02 pm
content: Quote from: pcprogrammer on October 13, 2022, 01:10:59 pmJudging by the work that sundry Jura owners have put into it: unlikely.However what I'm interested in knowing at this point is whether there are any other manufacturers that have an externally-accessible diagnostic/control port making the machines hackable... my searching so far suggests not (unless, $deity help us, you get an iPad supplied as part of a consumables service with all control via "the cloud").MarkMLl

author: tom66
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 02:28:46 pm
content: We've got a Thermoplan coffee maker at the office (Black&White3, I think) which has an accessible RS232 port, though you do need to take a panel off semi-permanently to get to it.Not sure what you can do via that but it is marked "service"

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2022, 05:43:04 pm
content: Heavily used by Starbucks by the look of it. Google turns up a certain amount, mostly in connection with using a serial connection in conjunction with POS or some sort of waiter interface (their idea of "service"? :-) which suggests remote control... can't find any protocol info though.MarkMLl

author: Traviscw
author_rank: Newbie
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 07:16:10 pm
content: TheJura machinesare very good and make excellent coffee. I have a Jura Impressa X9 and I love it. The X-series use a proprietary capsule system - it's not a bad system, but they are expensive (around £3 a pop!), so I'd recommend that you buy an additional grinder and use fresh beans. You will get the best flavor this way. I love the machine - very easy to use and maintain. With the Jura I went from a semi-automatic (Gaggia) to a fully automatic, and I'm not going to look back

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 07:44:13 pm
content: I've resolved to wait to see if we're heading into a recession, since if that's the case then there's going to be a lot of office clearance sales :-/One thing I'm wondering: looking at the high-end Jura machines like the Giga range, they have lots of extra recipes but are implementing them with plumbing identical to the more humble members of the range. I wonder how one can collate a "cookbook" of recipes for relatively simple machines (i.e. bean-to-cup plus automatic milk)?MarkMLl

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 07:59:27 pm
content: Bialetti Moka pot, stovetopAll the machines are junk and make lousy cafej

author: SiliconWizard
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 08:04:24 pm
content: Quote from: jonpaul on November 10, 2022, 07:59:27 pmSo, you prefer those to expresso machines?I have one of those stove-top italian pots, but I don't use it very often. I find the taste a bit "odd" compared to expresso - it's a bit closer to what turkish coffee tastes like, which I'm not very fond of. But maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 08:52:04 pm
content: After many years of using a filter, I've switched to a cheap espresso machine as more appropriate to somebody who is normally a solitary drinker.My conclusion in both cases is that the overwhelmingly important thing is spotless cleanliness, in particular getting rid of all oily residue out of the "portafilter" basket (this would normally be trapped in a disposable paper filter).I've actually also got a middle-of-the road Dualit espresso machine, for which I 3D-printed a replacement steam union using nylon. However I /really/ dislike it: not only does it mandate using a small paper filter but the basket is basically a sealed unit which can't be disassembled for an occasional cleanout.MarkMLl

author: jonpaul
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 09:00:59 pm
content: lots of technique involved in a good Moka, grind, preheat water, bean type, slow heatUsed ONLY genuine Baletti or Italiano, the Chinese clones are junkJon

author: MarkMLl
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: November 10, 2022, 09:31:09 pm
content: The quality of Chinese-manufactured stuff depends mainly on the diligence of the commissioning company's QA department.However, the more TLC that the QA department expends, the more the subcontractor learns which can later be used on his own account.Forcibly dragging this back on-topic, I once read a downright lyrical piece from a BBC journalist about a government-owned coffee shop in Columbia that was basically making coffee with laboratory precision. But the bottom line is that we all have to find some compromise between spending more time on the preparation than the enjoyment, and an excessively casual approach which doesn't do the beans any favours (and is probably unsanitary to boot).MarkMLl