Oscilloscope used in Thunderbirds Episode - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 12:49:00 am
content: A post in the repair board spurred my memory about an episode of the old Thunderbirds Supermarionation show. In an episode they use some real oscilloscopes, and it appears that they might be Telequipment models (see screenshot). Anyone agree?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:21:31 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on August 22, 2018, 12:49:00 amBanana post inputs, yes maybe averyearly Telequipment.After small search: Serviscope S51E......or similar.

author: Muttley Snickers
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:31:46 am
content: I just watched virtually the entire episode and they had a few more located elsewhere in the same craft, I now suspect that somebody in the props department was probably pulling a few strings as well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lrqJg1Etmw&feature=youtu.be&t=2300

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:39:18 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 22, 2018, 01:21:31 amThat's it! Good searching Tautech.Quote from: Muttley Snickers on August 22, 2018, 01:31:46 amHa yea. In the scene I captured he's looking at what appears to be a sine wave on one (like what else would they use for starters), and I believe square waves on the other one. They are in a predicament involving some nasty creatures launching hot spew at them. I'm not sure exactly how watching these types of signals helps them but I don't know how to operate the craft.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:43:17 am
content: Quote from: Muttley Snickers on August 22, 2018, 01:31:46 amWhat else would they show on a '60's UK series but some 'fine in their day' UK craftmanship.A Tek or something ?There was good reason why Tek later bought Telequipment.Maybe they wanted Teks seen in Thunderbird episodes !Quote from: xrunner on August 22, 2018, 01:39:18 amNot so much X, it just looked familiar and Google Images popped up something close.It's not exactly a S51E but obviously one very close.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 01:55:59 am
content: Looks very much like a Telequiment scope and the S51 looks like a good fit. Don't remember seeing a Serviscope Minor used as a film prop but you never know.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 02:24:31 am
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on August 22, 2018, 01:55:59 amThere were some technical savvy people writing/working for that series. In that episode a direction is given to Zero X "transmit an unmodulated carrier wave ...". Whoever wrote that knew something about radio and technology.If you haven't ever watched the Thunderbirds check out a few of the episodes on You Tube. You might get a kick out of them.

author: bsudbrink
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 02:29:46 pm
content: Funny how the disparity in scale doesn't really stand out. I have to look hard and think to realize that a 4mm banana jack shouldn't be bigger than your thumb.

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 04:53:30 pm
content: Quote from: bsudbrink on August 22, 2018, 02:29:46 pmLOL yea the scopes are really too big for the scale of the puppet, but not so much so that you dwell on it that long. They do a lot of little tricks in those shows, for example, when they can get away with it, they will zoom in and show a real person's hand reaching for a real coffee cup or something like that. Then the next frames will be the actual puppet holding a smaller model of the coffee cup. Very inventive sort of show.

author: PhilipPeake
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 05:51:44 pm
content: Quote from: tautech on August 22, 2018, 01:21:31 amThat brings back memories ... showing my age, and referring to things that no-one of a certain age, or from the UK (or some commonwealth countries) will know what I am talking about ...My first job out of school was an apprenticeship with Rediffusion (a sort of cable radio/TV company).On of my tasks was repairing the repeaters that shuffled the TV signal around the network. Basically just HF amplifiers (yes, the TV signal was carried on HF carriers!).Once repaired, the filters had to be checked/adjusted to ensure that the response was flat and the bandpass was correct.This used a sweep-frequency generator and diode detector. The sweep voltage triggered the oscilloscope, and the detector output fed the Y axis. An extra graticule was added with the expected response shape for specified 'scope settings.I spent a lot of hours in front of that scope - very similar, if not identical to the one pictured above.Eventually, they acquired a new 'scope. I bought the old one. Unfortunately, it didn't last long. It was pretty old by that point.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 06:35:33 pm
content: Great thread. This has motivated me to dig out my D83 and fix it tonight

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 07:42:12 pm
content: The Daleks were keen scope users too.Looking at the scopes in the image below can anyone tell who they had a service contract with?

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 07:59:25 pm
content: Could it be Cossor?

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 08:03:52 pm
content: That's got to be a Cossor 1035, a classic. My first scope was a 339 and my dad said I was bonkers to pay £20 for it.@BD139 I've been looking for a D83 for ages, first used one in school in the mid 70's and the D83 takes up less bench space than 7603 which uses the same CRT I think. It's funny I always thought train spotters were crazy, but when I think about it I'm just as crazy, a geeky scope spotter looking out for film props

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 08:06:03 pm
content: The Cossor brochure says "Designed with your specific needs in mind?"Large easy to use controls?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 08:18:12 pm
content: Quote from: chris_leyson on August 22, 2018, 08:03:52 pmA D83 was my first scope ~15 yrs back. bd139's mom used to build bits for them at TQ and by that time Tek owned them. Yes they did share the same CRT as Teks and so had a very nice sharp and large display.Nice CRO even if they take a bit to keep them functional......mine did. Still regret selling it some, not so the HP1740 I had at the same time.Still got some 130 Ohm NTC thermistors they used on the unreg 30V supply into the EHT stage if anybody needs one.....mine had crumbled and fallen apart.

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 08:38:07 pm
content: QuoteCool bit of history, thanks. My mom was a punch card operator on a Joe Lyons LEO I and she used to say sometimes the machine would stop and somebody would come along and check out the blinky lights.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 09:10:37 pm
content: BTW cancelled my D83 fixing session.As tautech says, they certainly do need a bit of maintenance. The one I picked up in May had a shot power supply so i had to replace the entire bottom half of the scope with the bottom half off the parts mule that came with it. Not for the faint hearted but it worked. I replaced all the HT caps in it successfully but the infernal thing has lost intensity control now. Grr.Did my work school experience at Cossor. Test department tea boy basicallyTo note, my mother has very little to say that is nice about Telequipment

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 09:54:36 pm
content: Here's a tough one -

author: G0HZU
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 22, 2018, 10:59:59 pm
content: Eico 425 or 460?Holy Cathode Rays, Batman!... Could the Batscilloscope be a Dumont 208-B ?

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 23, 2018, 12:35:49 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on August 22, 2018, 10:59:59 pmWith as much enhancement as I could do I would say Bingo!

author: floobydust
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 03:48:55 am
content: The Dumont 208-B does not have the ventilation cutout, so I am a bit sceptical. It looks very close though.More fun here:Oscilloscope MuseumTektronix In Movies and Shows

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 04:26:14 am
content: That's probably a trick of light and something to do with the sign and holder not a vent.

author: bsfeechannel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 04:51:40 am
content: Quote from: G0HZU on August 22, 2018, 10:59:59 pmWait, Robin. Let's use our Batimage Enhancer:It is a Dumont, no doubt. Probably made in the 1940, when they had a black face. It might have suffered some cosmetic changes to be used as a prop. The brand name is missing. The lines that divide the control sections were also erased. The handle at the top might have been replaced. You can see that the chicken head knob of the coarse time base adjust at the bottom of the panel is also missing. The bright red binding posts seem to be a modern replacement.These scopes were used by technicians in TV studios. So they might have taken an old one for a cameo appearance. That's my hunch.

author: bd139
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 08:19:07 am
content: Excellent forensic workSome quick Adam West:

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: August 24, 2018, 12:19:10 pm
content: Quote from: bd139 on August 24, 2018, 08:19:07 am"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb" LOL!

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 03:31:35 am
content: Here's 'Cinema' from ~2011 showing what looks like a Tek 541

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 04:42:06 am
content: Quote from: tautech on August 22, 2018, 01:21:31 amyou are rightS51B is not, the screen bezel is different.

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 04:49:26 am
content: Quote from: tautech on October 13, 2018, 03:31:35 amthe scope in the film is a 535 (no A) or 545 (no A) why? 2 time bases and vertical +-3 graticules.greetingsMartin

author: TimFox
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 03:45:59 pm
content: I remember seeing a British sci-fi movie, but can't recall the title.It involved a planet sharing Earth's orbit, but diametrically opposed to Earth so we can't see it through the sun.Astronauts were sent to investigate it, but returned early (about half the scheduled time), and were interrogated for dereliction of duty.I quickly understood the problem, however, since back in the lab the Tektronix 540-series oscilloscopes had the CRT in the upper right hand corner of the front panel.Obviously, parity was reversed on the two planets.Does anyone recall the movie's title?

author: chris_leyson
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 03:56:44 pm
content: Doppelgänger or outside europe 'Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun'. A classic .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelg%C3%A4nger_(1969_film)

author: Martin.M
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 05:04:12 pm
content: SciFi Movie oh yes ..I remember one film where the spaceman is communicating to the earth by watching and speaking in a Tek 422

author: VK3DRB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 13, 2018, 11:45:10 pm
content: In the classic Aussie movie "The Dish", there is an oscilloscope here that I doubt existed in July 1969 (see 1:58 below), but the props used elsewhere had nixie tubes in them. There are scenes in the movie where indicators flash on and off with a very high intensity slew rate - these would have been LEDs, not incandescent globes. But there were no LEDs used in test equipment back in 1969! In any case the producers did a good job.I have seen the movie 11 times. There is a serious bug in it - the shadow of the boom mic that moves over the station wagon car as the woman was delivering lunch to the engineers at the Parkes radio telescope.For those interested, here is a great article that sorts fact from fiction in the movie. I don't know about the bit about the Yanks leaving equipment here because it was too heavy. Much of the equipment came from a company in Melbourne called Macservice, which is now called TMG Test Equipment.https://www.atnf.csiro.au/outreach/visiting/parkes/looselybased.html

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 12:48:29 am
content: Here's a scope I found in an episode of Space 1999. They tried to disguise it with a template. What model?

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 01:33:30 am
content: For those that like this stuff, another previous thread:https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/movie-scopes-(and-other-tm-props)/

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 03:15:24 am
content: Quoteneons then

author: vk6zgo
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 03:51:02 am
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 13, 2018, 11:45:10 pmSorry, I can't see anything at 1:58, except the side view of a viewing hood on some invisible piece of gear, & Sam Neil!QuoteActually, there were, but they certainly weren't high intensity.Tektronix etc, stuck with incandescents for that reason.Quote

author: LapTop006
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: October 14, 2018, 12:29:10 pm
content: Quote from: VK3DRB on October 13, 2018, 11:45:10 pmAn old friend of mine (who went on to work at an optical telescope) actually has a photo of him standing at the crease for a quick round of cricket at the dish.One thing not mentioned on that link, but IIRC is in the DVD commentary is that a few bits & pieces of the equipment they got for the set still had NASA asset tags on them.

author: peteb2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 11:21:36 pm
content: Of all the things to be asked to see if i can fix it up...On a day before Christmas and a bit of spare time i had a look.It's the "Thunderbirds series" prop Telequipment S51B but with an amber filtered CRT absolutely terrible condition. Thing is though i could use a single channel CRT 'scope myself but the owner is really hopeful it will go again.Then i opened the unit only to discover somebody has nicked off with all its vacuum tubes (valves) except the disconnected CRT which is floating around in there.I guess the real truth is as it stands it's a dead duck. It uses 1x ECF80 and 6x ECC88 which though obtainable will cost a pretty penny. I have zero idea if the CRT is viable and worse, the rusty as power transformer and that's before even considering bad caps.Plainly someone has visited it in the distant past and now i need to tell the old owner (and hope like crazy he doesn't think i've stolen all the tubes)...

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 23, 2018, 11:51:34 pm
content: Pete, I have some tubes .....maybe some of the correct ones and you’re welcome to any I have.....on my return to NZ in a couple of weeks.

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 12:36:25 am
content: Quote from: xrunner on August 22, 2018, 02:24:31 amIn contrast, just last night was watching season 3 episode 10 of Lost in Space (60's TV version) where people start disappearing from the J2 and John Robinson's solution it to "reverse the polarity of the oscillator"...

author: peteb2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 01:49:11 am
content: Probably a flogging of a very dead creature ... but then again i always love a challenge.The CRT target isn't burned at least and still intact.Have a gander at the state of things:

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 01:52:55 am
content: Nuthing a good dusting wouldn’t fix !

author: xrunner
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 03:53:03 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on December 24, 2018, 12:36:25 amA little artistic license application ...

author: VK5RC
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 07:42:52 am
content: Quote from: peteb2 on December 24, 2018, 01:49:11 amI have quite a few cro tubes spare, let me know if you know the part numbers, I can test them as well.Check transformer for leaks and the power filter caps for esr, value etc

author: SeanB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 03:06:25 pm
content: Transformer doesn't look too bad, and will clean up well. Just pop it, after removing from the chassis, and a good going over with a stiff nylon brush to remove dust and loose rust, into an oven at 105C for 6 hours to dry it out, then when at 40C again spray with a few coats of clear lacquer to provide some waterproofing for it and keep it dry. Then you can use a dim bulb tester to see if it has survived.You will just have to be careful of that SRBP, it might need the same bake treatment as well, but at least there you will be replacing pretty much every capacitor anyway, and every resistor that is over 10k as well, using at a minimum 1W metal film, as they are about the same size, can withstand the high voltage and will not drift high in value like the carbon composition ones. Valve bases will survive the oven no problem, even if they are plastic they need to survive being toasted by the heaters anyway. Have fun with cracked traces, and careful of them pulling off, that Paxolin board is famous for lifting with heat.

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: December 24, 2018, 04:21:47 pm
content: You can get 6DJ8s for $10-15 in the right places. Price varies wildly based on brand, all the way up to $500 audiophool crap. 6BL8 is cheaper, about $7.

author: peteb2
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: December 31, 2018, 10:03:38 am
content: A tiny update: I completely dusted down, vacuumed and then disconnected all leads off the transformer.Using my Agilent U1461A insulation meter (which i bought on a mad whim one day) I ran a few combination DAR (dielectric absorption ratio) & PI (polarization index) tests for the primary to secondary and from these to frame only up to 250V for now and the results looked fine with a peak to 780Mohm (i have other random fairly new transformers that do 0.57GigOhm). I then brought the primary up on a current limited variac very slowly and measured the outputs (except the 980V and 1270V while these windings have continuity) and they're all present. I need another meter be able to read those kind of potentials. So the transformer is a goer but as SeanB says... it needs to be given some TLC.This spurred me to the filthy CRT. After a very careful clean i chose to remove the mumetal cover to reveal its details, a Brimar SE5FP7, make date of 1971.Close inspection and all appeared fine, with no rattles etc that is until i saw the condition of the two Getters which being as i am a 'tube' guy worries me. I think the CRT has been leaking its vacuum. The storage location it sat for decades wouldn't help as it was in a loft for YEARS, not even inside a carton. Summer months daytime temps would have been scream'n hot. Winter probably below zeroC some mornings.I'm now at a crossroads again. I'd like to hunt down a good CRT assuming this one is stuffed and i have seen a couple S51B 'scopes go on ebay but shipping to NZ is waaay up there. Depends how far your hobby goes i guess.It's an hour to go from the New Year 2019 for me here in NZ so i should go watch the big midnight event on Stream TV before hitting the sack!

author: Cyberdragon
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 05:57:34 pm
content: If the tube was leaking, there'd be no silver left by now, unless it's a very recent seep. That just looks like normal flash pattern. Just keep an eye on it. Draw a circle around the silver part, and if it ever shrinks it's broken.EDIT: The white edges indicate excessive heat or internal outgassing, but as long as the tube tests good and doesn't worsen it should be fine.

author: calexanian
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 01, 2019, 06:09:09 pm
content: We had one of those DuMonts running as a peak emission indicator in a test rig up until about 4 years ago when I swapped it out for a Rigol. It still had a good trace.

author: tautech
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: January 08, 2019, 09:01:22 pm
content: Just looking for tubes for Pete and among my selection of of old tubes in miniature nine-pin I have:MiniwattPhilipsMullardTesaAWARadiotronECF80 (1 req) Triode Pentodehttp://www.r-type.org/exhib/aam0044.htmSensibly equivalent to: 6BL8 6C16 CV5215ECC88 (6 req) Dual Triodehttp://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0011.htmSensibly equivalent to: 6DJ8 CV5358 M3624(Google also lists 6DJ8, E88CC, 6922, 6N23P, and 6N11 )Still sorting through what I have.....not looking too good.Are there any other equivalents ?

author: Inverted18650
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: February 07, 2019, 03:46:33 am
content: sorry to barge in, but I was dropped a hint that maybe there is something here that may help Pete.Note I didn't read the thread, but a friend pointed out Pete was in need so if I can help, please let me know.For just a few ot handful of the valves, I wouldnt ask for anything but cost of shipping..Cheers.