(respond by July 29th) distribution and price of Australian Standards - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: Chris Jones
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 01:57:00 pm
content: If you are interested in the distribution and therefore pricing of Australian Standards, you can comment on a discussion paper here, until 29/7/2019:https://www.standards.org.au/news/help-shape-the-future-standards-australiaHere is some background:https://myosh.com/blog/2018/12/03/australian-standards-the-unfair-exchange/I went to one of the "public consultations" about distribution (and so price) of Australian Standards.A General Manager from Standards Australia told us that (paraphrased) there's no point allowing the public to access standards, because they wouldn't understand them. He used the example of Diesel engines for boats - the public wouldn't understand how an engine works so they shouldn't be reading the standards about them.Also he used the metaphor that standards are "tools of trade", "like a surgeon's scalpel" and should not be available to the public because just being able to read the electrical or gasfitting rules would "embolden" people to do wiring and gasfitting work without a license. Fortunately the fellow from Standards Australia does not influence distribution of scalpels - I find that a Swann-Morton handle with a 10A blade, available at any good artists' shop, is very handy for modifying prototype circuit boards. And in spite of posessing this marvel of sharpness, it never occurred to me to test my beginner's luck and have a go at some amateur surgery.(By the same logic, we could fix the problem of people driving cars without a license, by putting the road rules behind a very expensive paywall, so people without a license don't get "emboldened" to drive cars.)The WA parliament's delegated legislation committee said:"We believe that universal free access to Australian Standards should be a right enjoyed by the Australian people, by businesses, by governments, by representative groups and by academic institutions.”https://t.co/xXtzpVo0IlIf you look up the interview transcripts from that investigation they are quite revealing also.I'm not sure that putting in a submission will have much effect, but at least that part of their website is free of charge!

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 21, 2019, 05:58:00 pm
content: I think that you should write to the committee and point out to them that 1) You do own a scalpel and that you do manage to successfully make use of it, even if it's not for it's intended purpose. 2) That you do understand how a diesel engine works, and 3) That you do own and operate a automobile. And also that the GM of the Australian Standards is anidiotthat he would stop all progress in Australia if it would make his job easier and that he needs to be fired and to be told to go find a job flipping hamburgers somewhere.IMO If the citizens of Australia are paying for Standards Australia, then they should have full access to it. End of Story. You should point out to the committee that many of the greatest scientific and business developments have been made by non-professional people that the GM would deny the services of SA to. People such as the George Westinghouse, the Wright brothers, Robert Goddard, Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell.I doubt that the people of Australia are as truly ignorant and incapable as SA's GM thinks that they are.My two cents worth from the other side of the pond.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:26:51 am
content: I can empathize with you !! (Being an Aussie)."Standards Australia" uses a '3rd-party' to store-data/collect-money from interested parties.(And at a massive profit margin, compared to the minuscule percentage returned to 'S.A.').It has been a LONG TIME since I had to 'purchase' my "SAA WIRING RULES" Book as a hard-copyfor say (can't remember) $20, for which we still received regular updated paragraphs from varioussources for free, to physically PASTE into the original book!!But that's a long way from paying between $250-$300 to download a /PDF file now......For which, (I think?), the "Standards Australia" get something like $13 !!!That being said, I GENERALLY am able to get MOST tech info I ever need, for say general plumbing,swimming pool regulations, fencing,etc etc from free online links from local Councils/Depts.

author: digsys
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 22, 2019, 11:34:52 am
content: IIRC, the last time I was with a transformer manufacturer (last year), he had some new products that had to pass various local and o/seas standards -Not only did he have to prove that he wasallowedto have them, but ended up paying $2-3K, some such ridiculous figure !! Then found out he needed 1-2 more !POS aussie !

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 12:29:01 am
content: Australia, where you can have a PhD in EE and yet not be legally allowed to repair the wiring in your own house.Something fun to try: argue that nonfree access to standards is disproportionately bad for females in STEM and watch the two sides fight...

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 12:47:05 pm
content: Quote from: amyk on July 23, 2019, 12:29:01 amThis argument is flawed in the extreme. Having a PhD in EE does NOT ensure you have a working knowledge of the standards - nor the requisite experience.

author: Stray Electron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 23, 2019, 05:07:47 pm
content: Quote from: Brumby on July 23, 2019, 12:47:05 pmNot entirely true. If Au is anything like the US, then a hell of a lot of the working house hold "electricians" know absolutely nothing about electricity except that it bites and MOST of them are unskilled and inexperienced "journeyman" that are working under someone else's license. A lot of the licensed electricians in the US are quite good but there are probably 15 or more unlicensed electricians for every licensed one. One local well respected electrical contractor (company) that I know of has over 100 "electricians" but only two that have licenses.A long time ago I was the electronics technician for a large US manufacturing company and I had to TRY and explain to the company "electrician" that connecting a 1500 Watt 230 volt wall mounted heater would not "short out" the entire electrical system. No one could make him understand that it only drew limited power and that amount was well in the capacity of the wiring and the electrical systems. He wired up the system but flatly refused to connect the heater so I was called in to do it. Don't get me wrong, he did great work bending conduit and wiring up circuits but he did themBY THE BOOKand had no understanding of how anything worked or why the NEC called for things like different sizes and type wire under different circumstances. Even things like E=IR were totally foreign to him.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 01:57:05 pm
content: Quote from: Stray Electron on July 23, 2019, 05:07:47 pmSimilarly over the DECADES of my life, I have 'noticed' that there are Electricians, & Electricians.I DO NOT want to down-play the vast majority of "House" wirers, but comparing their work to IndustrialElectrical/Electronics is like bandaids to a nurse, compared to brain surgery !!! (sorry)There is as big a difference as that, and the knowledge/understanding behind the scenes, is vast.The 'info' that one can acquire is almost never ending. (Is worlds apart)

author: AlfBaz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 02:49:21 pm
content: Considering that here in Australia a lot of acts and statutory regulations mandate certain standards it should follow that the standards being referred to should also be freely available so one can follow the rule of law

author: m98
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: July 24, 2019, 08:48:46 pm
content: Someone seriously needs to make a piratebay-like platform for tax-payer-paid standards.

author: GlennSprigg
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 10:21:31 am
content: Quote from: AlfBaz on July 24, 2019, 02:49:21 pmYou could say the same thing also, for say... "Passing your vehicle driving tests". Here in Australia,you can read the 'rules of the road', but many things that are required to be done/known are ONLY in theinfo/books held byInstructors/Testers!! Like the 'technical' ORDER of things to be done whenfirst taking off from a curb. For example... (probably wrong! haha),foot on brake, start engine, indicators on,check mirrors, put n gear, look out side window, move away...... Get the ORDER wrong & you fail!How ever, it is NOT in any book for the PUBLIC, to ensure you use 'professional' Instructors. I complained aboutthis to the Transport Authorities once, on someones behalf, and the guy understood, and 'illegally' printed outall the stuff we needed to know!!

author: ebastler
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: July 26, 2019, 11:17:22 am
content: Quote from: GlennSprigg on July 26, 2019, 10:21:31 amMaybe things have changed, but that "Testing Officers Manual" is available to the public for free, at least in NSW:https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/licence/testing-officers-manual.pdf