Buying first microscope in Germany, AliExpress, Customs - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: Rooster Cogburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 01:14:48 pm
content: I've been looking into getting a decent SMD soldering microscope for a while. Main requirements:- I can't imagine soldering by looking at a display, I want stereo and zero lag- I frequently work with larger PCBs, so those integrated stand & work surface things won't do it, I need a microscope head on an arm- Those common / entry level 7X-45X + 0.5X barlow lens setups seem like all I'll ever need- Don't really need a camera port or even simulfocal, guess iPhone-into-eyepiece is fine if I ever need to snap pic for a question on a forum etc.- I have very limited bench space and after countless hours of measuring and moving stuff around I think those typical double or single arm boom stands might not be a good fit. It would be very hard to move the microscope out of the way, I'd probably frequently obstruct or bump into other equipment, walls are in the way on all sides and the counterweight etc. would hit them and I'll likely have to position the microscope on the side in a way that leaves the arm fully extended and makes everything prone to tipping over. I think those fully articulated stands are the best compromise for me.I figured I'd try buying an Amscope unit. That's a bit tricky where I live, though. First, everything is of course quite a bit pricier compared to the prices I see on the US website. Then, Amscope only has a smaller subset of its products available in the UK warehouse. Shipping from UK->GER is >300EURThey then only stock an even smaller selection in local Amazon warehouses, so I can't get certain things (articulating arm) and would likely have to buy a more expensive model with features I don't need.I thought I'd have a look at AliExpress, found these:https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/FREE-SHIPPING-3-5X-45X-STEREO-ZOOM-MICROSCOPE-ARTICULATING-STAND-MICROSCOPE-144A-LED/2100001_32650651761.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/efix-3-5-45X-Binocular-Stereo-Solder-Microscope-Simul-Focuse-Continuous-Zoom-Articulating-Arm-Clamp-Stand/32957436083.htmlhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Luckyzoom-3-5X-45X-Stereo-Zoom-Trinocular-Microscope-Articulating-Clamp-Stand-144PCS-LED-Light-Microscopio-Accessories/32837796934.htmlThat looks pretty much perfect! The standard 7-45X stereo microscope head either with a camera port or not (doesn't really matter much to me, I'd take it for 10 bucks or so, though), a 0.5X barlow lens, articulating stand and a LED ring light. That's *exactly* what I feel would be best for my needs and the cheapest offer is <370EUR shipped.Now my concerns...- Any general suggestions to a first time microscope buyer- I buy plenty of things from Chinese sellers on Ali, Banggood, eBay, but never anything this expensive. I've heard some positive reports here about Lucky Zoom, I'd like to buy the first offer from 'Micoptical Store' here, if sensible. How risky would you say is all this? How helpful is the buyer protection from Ali if the device doesn't arrive or just has some defect in the optics? I only ever had to use their protection once when I got a heat resistance bench mat that wasn't actually heat resistant.(guess this is for the Germans only...)- Customs! So, 99% of my purchases are parts and small stuff <25EUR so I don't have to deal with that. On the few occasions where I bought more expensive items from China/Japan and did not chose some expensive courier like UPS that just deals with all of this for you I had to pick up my stuff at the local customs office. They're mind-numbingly slow but it all worked out fine. Now, here it seems that most sellers basically pick the courier for you (or at least reserve the right to deviate from your choice), might ship the microscope in two packages, even with two different couriers. I've read plenty about the horrors of dealing with the GDSK, avoiding EMS, rip-off customs fees from TNT and such. I've never had the issue where a package was not transported to the customs office at the destination but stored at Frankfurt airport and I have to fill out this god awful looking mother of all stuffy government websites to get my packages released while fending off angry letters from GDSK, potentially twice if they ship both packages with different couriers. Any advice on how to avoid this? Did anybody just talk to the sellers and asked them to use DHL so you can just pick it up at the local customs office? Does 'China Post Air Parcel' end up with the GDSK in Germany?- I'll have to pay 19% VAT for sure, but does anybody happen to know if microscopes have a 0% import tax like many electronics items?Thanks

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 02:15:45 pm
content: Well Amazon is a thing in Germany. And the AmScope Louis Rossman uses is on Amazon...I should read betterMaybe Amazon can deal with the customs for you?

author: Qw3rtzuiop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 02:39:47 pm
content: I was in a similar situation. The 19% didn't bother me that much. The problem is DHL Express and their "service". They will pay the import taxes for you and charge a service fee. And if there are any errors it is a long way to go. Had this situation once.If you search on aliexpress you can filter the results by the country of origin. Take a look and choose different eu countries and you will probably find a microscope with the desired specs.I bought this one:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/simul-focal-Continuous-Zoom-7-45X-Trinocular-Stereo-Microscope-HDMI-VGA-microscope-camera-56-LED-Light/32851330647.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.39964c4daTMcL2Unfortunately it is no longer available from Spain.

author: Rooster Cogburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 03:19:04 pm
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on March 13, 2019, 02:15:45 pmI know that if I write a question as long as I did I'm bound to get responses where people suggest things I explicitly mentioned and addressed already, but I couldn't make it much briefer, sorry.- AmScope is quite a bit more expensive in Europe- AmScope sells on Amazon but has their European warehouse in the UK and shipping to Germany is >300EUR- They only stock a few models in the local warehouse. None with articulating stands and other things about them that I don't want- The model Rossmann uses has a double arm boom stand, which is likely problematic on my bench due to space- On AliExpress options are exactly what I want and way cheaper, even after 19% VAT + 7% import tax (might not even have to pay that one), so I think I'd rather go this routeQuote from: Qw3rtzuiop on March 13, 2019, 02:39:47 pmBut that's only DHL Express, I doubt any of those el-cheapo shipping included sellers use them? I'm aware of those fees, I used UPS' customs processing before. I'd be perfectly happy with the slowest shipping possible if only I can be reasonably sure that I can just pick it up and pay at my local custom's office. I tried finding one shipped from the EU, but i.e. "stereo microscope 3.5X 45X articulating stand" has zero results for the EU locations :/ I can only find a few basic models.btw, do you remember if you had to pay import tax on top of VAT? Electronics and scientific instruments are often exempt.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 13, 2019, 03:36:26 pm
content: Quote from: Rooster Cogburn on March 13, 2019, 03:19:04 pm... I completely missed that, I'm sorry.

author: Qw3rtzuiop
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 09:31:38 am
content: I assume that it is EMS shipping with pre taxation by the courier when it costs 30-60$. But you can also contact Eakins or another microscope seller on Aliexpress and ask them if they can ship it with UPS or ship it from spain/italy...

author: olkipukki
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 01:02:41 pm
content: Quote from: Rooster Cogburn on March 13, 2019, 01:14:48 pmQuote from: Rooster Cogburn on March 13, 2019, 01:14:48 pmWhy just do not buy directly from AmScope then? They used to sell to EU directly.Especially, you have a choice to select that you actually need or customise a unit...The pricing comparison: in general, $ Amscope vs £ Amazon UK, without AmScope vouchers/discounts.UPS shipping cost would be in a couple hundred $ range (~30 kg)Yes, you will need to pay VAT + UPS service change + import duty (as far as I remember)

author: Rooster Cogburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 14, 2019, 03:14:25 pm
content: Quote from: olkipukki on March 14, 2019, 01:02:41 pmHaven't you answered that question with your own post?Paying hundreds of dollars on shipping plus at least 19% VAT (which also has to be paid on the shipping cost...) makes this completely pointless. The main benefit of buying from AmScope to me would be returns and warranty repairs etc., but that doesn't really apply when anything is too expensive to ship back etc.I posted this to get some feedback on AliExpress, the scopes I linked and customs/import/shipping etc.

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 08:35:28 am
content: I just saved a search on eBay and waited for a nice offer.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 08:43:45 am
content: Never use EMS shipping or China Shipping or Aliexpress standard shipping for a microscope, or for anything with sensitive optics.Remember the videos of people in china throwing EMS packages into a truck. Dont let that be your microscope.DHL, FEDEX, UPS only!Between my work, a friend and myself we have purchased a total of 5 microscopes from LuckyZoom.Always DHL and have never had a problem.

author: KaneTW
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 01:38:29 pm
content: Buy from the Chinese AmScope OEM directly.http://www.yydag.comI can give you the info of whoever handled my purchase there if you PM me.What I paid (with shipping to Germany via TNT, excluding VAT):

author: Rooster Cogburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 07:57:15 pm
content: Thanks everybody, very helpful. I guess all of those scopes come from the same factory. Does it make sense trying to buy from a manufacturer directly on alibaba? Often the minimum quantity is just one, I've just never used alibaba myself.And just to confirm, German buyers just pay VAT, there's no import tax on this type of equipment?

author: Jeroen3
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 15, 2019, 11:39:36 pm
content: I hate to bring it to you, but DHL drivers also throw with packages inside their vans. They use the "pile" stacking method inside their vans. At least UPS still has some shelving in their vans, if they do not use their box trucks, of which they regularly drive to the next building with the doors open and literally lose packages.No matter what shipping company you use, pack it for the tumble dryer.

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 10:11:30 am
content: Quote from: Rooster Cogburn on March 15, 2019, 07:57:15 pmIf the customs value (Zollwert = goods + shipping + insurance) is more than 150 euros, you will pay 19% import VAT (Einfuhrumsatzsteuer) and1.70% duty(Zolltarif), or a total of 20.7% of the customs value.

author: Psi
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: March 16, 2019, 11:32:25 am
content: Quote from: Jeroen3 on March 15, 2019, 11:39:36 pmTrue but EMS throw it out of large trucks onto concrete.There's a difference between a somewhat skilled DHL driver throwing a package upwards onto a stack of boxes in their van and a EMS driver throwing it 2 meters onto concrete.

author: Rooster Cogburn
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 03:19:21 pm
content: Here in Germany DHL's quality has been on a decline for a long time. It seems there's an ever increasing pressure to do more work in less time. I haven't had a damaged/lost shipment for years but recently an entire batch of shipments has all been returned to sender because they've been water damaged. Probably they just forgot them in the rain somewhere along the chain. Now for regular (non-express) deliveries our street is no longer handled by the trusted person we've had for years and our mailman handles these now entirely, sounded pretty stressed about it. I've also constantly had delays for the last year or so where packages get loaded on the vehicle for delivery but return undelivered to the depot. They ran out of time and their shift ended. Stuff like this never happened before but is now a constant. I can only imagine they have to put more pressure on people and I guess they get a lower quality employees now since the job probably becomes more stressful and less attractive. I assume people like me who penny pinch and shop for the lowest price on AliExpress are part of the problem that causes all this price pressure and resulting decline in quality

author: jfiresto
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: March 17, 2019, 05:56:30 pm
content: Quote from: Rooster Cogburn on March 17, 2019, 03:19:21 pmThat has been my experience as well. According to our long time deliveryman of a few years ago, they started giving them 110–120 packages to deliver a day, a crazy load they only used to have to manage over Christmas. What can't be delivered in a day, won't be. I caught him once, ringing my bell and then immediately going on to his next delivery. After I caught up with him, he profusely apologized and explained that he had to do such things to reduce an impossible load. He never did that to me again, but disappeared after he and his fellow, regular DHL employees went on strike.If DHL is getting worse, the local DPD is impossible. They will announce a delivery between, say, 10:13 and 10:36 and then notify you at 9:47 that you were not there. (For a while, I would double check the doorbell. Curiously, my name was always there and the doorbell still worked.) They add in the message, that they will redirect the package to a particular DPD shop for delivery later that day. Except they don't make that delivery either. Sometimes, they don't even make it to the shop to pick up the day's packages that are waiting for them.I don't think it is the customer's fault that they are doing this.