EMC and EMI certification cost - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / beginners

author: grimmjaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 01:18:51 pm
content: Hallo everybody,As mentioned in the title, I trying to get a few products to pass the EMC/EMI certification. Has anyone done it?How much will it typically costAdding to that, I would like also to get shock and vibration test.Perhaps can be done by the same lab as the EMC/EMI lab?Any suggestionPS:I'm located in Singapore

author: Keylectric
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 01:59:30 pm
content: Hi!Impossible to answer without detailed info about the specific products. You should contact a local test lab and ask for a quote.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 02:03:09 pm
content: Relevant questions without which it's impossible to give you an answer, are:- what, specifically, is the product?- into which markets are you looking to sell it?- has it been competently designed from the outset to pass EMC testing, or are you looking to test a product which has been designed by someone who lacks EMC expertise?The answers to all of these will have a significant impact on the cost of getting the product certified. Particularly the last one.

author: amyk
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 02:10:59 pm
content: Without knowing the specifics, the only plausible answer is "not cheap".

author: deadlylover
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 02:43:44 pm
content: Not cheap is the right answer unfortunately, it can easily run into 5-digit territory.In Australia, I've been quoted around $13k and expect it to run significantly higher if it fails and you have to retest the product. That's why many do their own in house pre-compliance testing before sending it off to a testing lab, but there is only so much you can do without a full blown anechoic RF chamber and test equipment.

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 03:58:41 pm
content: Maybe $2k bare minimum for basic EMC on a small product, FCC / CE compliance, sails right on through no problems. A suite of tests like that (EMC, shock & vibe, environmental) will run $10k easily, and the sky's the limit from there (on-site troubleshooting using up lab and labor hours, bigger products requiring bigger labs and amplifiers, more time to scan wider bandwidths, etc.).Tim

author: grimmjaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 19, 2015, 11:44:16 pm
content: Fully expected it to be expensive.The products need to qualifies MIL STD 46IE, and enclosed inside IP65 rated aluminium enclosure.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 12:14:48 am
content: I had a piece of equipment tested and certified EMI/EMc in Brisbane about a year ago.The cost of testing was AUD2000.00A similar piece of equipment going for full CE certification in Belgrade 18K Euro

author: grimmjaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 12:39:12 am
content: @IconicPCBWow.. that is a huge price hike.Why you choose two different country?

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 02:48:43 am
content: Two different markets... Europe and Australia.CE needed for Europe. Safety, EMI EMC, biophotonic compliance.Australian requirements less stringent and less politically motivated.CE is a technical compliance requirement aimed at stifling importation of goods into European market.

author: Ice-Tea
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 06:39:25 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on April 20, 2015, 02:48:43 amEh, no. It is not aimed at imports at all as all domestic products have to comply as well.

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 08:41:58 am
content: There is that argument.However compliance is a problem for no EU designers who need to be aware of CE requirements well in advance of start of product design.There is a loop hole in CE regulations ..self certification . We fell foul of just this loop hole. Purchased a product whihc came in with a CE certificate.We modified it and then went through the proces of certifying the " new " piece of kit.Our modifications passed safety and EMI/EMC tests. The previously " certified " european machine base FAILED SAFETY REQUIREMENT EXTENSIVELY.So as far as I am concerned.. nah.. CE mark is just another measure of protectionism of local industry.

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 09:03:23 am
content: How can it be "protectionism" if it applies to products made within the EU as well as outside it?Yes, anyone placing products on the market in the EU needs to be aware of the requirements, and needs to meet them. Anyone, regardless of where they are in the world.If you bought a product with a CE mark, and found it was actually non-compliant, why didn't you return it and/or demand a replacement which actually IS compliant? Why didn't you check it *before* you carried out your modifications?You're complaining about the burden that CE compliance imposes, but can you imagine how much more expensive and difficult it would be if it weren't for the ability to self-certify?What, specifically, is different about Australian approvals requirements?

author: matseng
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 09:20:28 am
content: Quote from: IconicPCB on April 20, 2015, 02:48:43 amWhat the heck is that? Like that the flashing red leds in "Light Therapy for Acne and Wrinkles" -products doesn't harm you [or doesn't do anything at all] :-)

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 11:38:16 am
content: Some of the CE and IEC stuff is kind of wanking it, but for the most part, I would assert it is very much in the common interest: qualified devices perform better and more reliably (i.e., passes susceptibility, ESD), are safer to operate and use (that two-prong cords are still legal in the US is perplexing, but perhaps the CE is only concerned about 240V, whereas 120V is not very dangerous), and are less disruptive of communications systems (emissions).The tests are generally no-nonsense, purposeful, not easy to "game", and both reasonable to achieve (it doesn't take a stupendous amount of filtering and protection to pass EMC) and beneficial to attain (susceptibility is equivalent to standing near a commercial radio tower, or waving a hand-held transmitter nearby, while emissions are near enough to atmospheric noise that e.g. you can comfortably use a shortwave radio, attached to borderline-CE-compliant hardware).Of course as you get into the stricter mil standards, you'll find more barriers. Tighter emissions, infosec if applicable (radios can't radiate intelligible or decodable secrets..), bigger transients (up to nuclear EMP?), plus general handling like being thrown into a car, air-dropped, shot out of a cannon*, etc...*Proximity fuzes, invented during WWII, used vacuum tubes. Yes, metal and mica inside glass tubes, made to withstand 40,000 G of acceleration and rotation!Quite possibly, the assembled suite of automotive standards is the largest for any single product. (I don't have a reference for that, I'm completely guessing.) Everything from crash safety to environmental to EMC. And the EMC has to be done a decade above and below anything used inside... so, everything from DC fields to 20GHz+ has to be bombarded at the thing, from all angles. There are innumerable sub-standards for internal components: EMC of the internal wiring system, cabin and engine bay environments, shock and vibe...Tim

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 20, 2015, 11:50:21 am
content: I've paid about £4000 recently for a subcontractor to test and prepare the technical file for CE marking on a battery powered product. Most of that was EMC.

author: grimmjaw
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 12:51:56 am
content: It seem that the price for standard EMC testing is ca.2000€~5000€. Not sure how much for the MIL STD tho

author: LabSpokane
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 01:24:55 am
content: Quote from: richard.cs on April 20, 2015, 11:50:21 amThat file is what you have to keep for CE self-certification, correct?

author: Circlotron
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 03:06:14 am
content: Quote from: T3sl4co1l on April 20, 2015, 11:38:16 amIn the same extreme category "being handled by airline baggage staff".

author: T3sl4co1l
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 09:37:00 am
content: Quote from: Circlotron on April 21, 2015, 03:06:14 amShipped by UPS... etc...

author: AndyC_772
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 09:52:34 am
content: Quote from: grimmjaw on April 21, 2015, 12:51:56 amThat may be the cost for having a full set of tests conducted and a report produced. It sounds like the right order of magnitude.It doesn't include the cost of any remedial work which may - and probably will - be required to get any non-trivial product to pass, if it's not been competently designed by someone with the relevant expertise to begin with.

author: richard.cs
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 07:39:59 pm
content: Quote from: LabSpokane on April 21, 2015, 01:24:55 amYes. Of course if the report says it fails then you have to redesign and retest. :-(

author: ion54
author_rank: Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 10:33:59 pm
content: Did not do an MIL STD EMC testing, but, in NA (Canada and US) an automotive EMC validation test for a product with three modes of operation (sleep, off, running) is about $35,000 US. It includes testing of two devices and test report generation from a certified lab that is recognized by the OEM.If I only have to do development I can hire the lab at $2400/8 hours for chamber test and $1400/8 hours bench testing. In the quoted prices I get a technician that will run the tests and help with test fixtures, etc.I do not expect MIL STD to be any cheaper.

author: wemme
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 10:58:11 pm
content: Hello,I Assume you mean MIL461-E not 46i, FYI this standard was superseded by rev F a while ago and the rev G draft was out on 1 of April 2015.You can do a lot of preliminary testing in house to make sure you are in the ball park however testing will be expensive regardless.Make sure you have identified the correct relevant parts of the spec as these change depending on the installation location on the unit and deployment.RegardsBartQuote from: grimmjaw on April 19, 2015, 11:44:16 pm

author: IconicPCB
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 11:02:45 pm
content: Precompliance testing may be done inhouse. I am surprised to hear a third party has been subcontracted to do the testing but is not certified to issue CE certification.You may be up for double dable charges ( subcontractor has tested the item for comliance but a certifying house may have to re do the tests in order to issue certificate.

author: wemme
author_rank: Regular Contributor
timestamp: April 21, 2015, 11:11:08 pm
content: I Agree, however our friend may be out of his depths and requires some engineering resource to sail the ship through the emc iceburgs.We have been contracted in numerous times to get small companies out of the $#!t and back on track.RegardsBartQuote from: IconicPCB on April 21, 2015, 11:02:45 pm