Stuff In Space - Page 1
Forum section: electronics / general

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 06:53:42 pm
content: Pretty darn cool interactive site:http://stuffin.space/

author: dr.diesel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 10:29:32 pm
content: From the group, Iridium 33 Collision Debris,

author: magetoo
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 05, 2016, 10:37:59 pm
content: That image reminds me of the anime Planetes, about trash collectors in orbit. (Kessler syndrome anyone?) I liked it, a surprisingly realistic take on a future in space.

author: XOIIO
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 01:34:41 am
content: Quote from: magetoo on September 05, 2016, 10:37:59 pmI loved that anime too, everything about it was just stunning, the story, the emotion, been meaning to re-watch it and a bunch of other series.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 05:15:44 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on September 05, 2016, 06:53:42 pmYes it is! Thanks mate.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 06, 2016, 08:06:28 am
content: Oh my, that's very cool. Link saved.Also, google 'Westford Needles'. I had never heard of this.Pity the Groups list doesn't include 'known fragments'. Apart from the iridium 33 debris.Here's another pretty-stuff link in return.https://earth.nullschool.net/Earth weather, done very nicely. Highly interactive, lots of options in the menu.

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 02:11:11 am
content: Wow that's pretty cool. Quite crazy how much stuff there is in space, operational and not. It's a miracle there arn't more collisions. I guess orbits of new stuff being launched are tightly regulated, but still incredible.

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 04:39:05 am
content: Anyone willing to take a guess when we will have someone with a business card like this?:

author: Brumby
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 04:41:48 am
content: Maybe I should have registered the name and offered it to Elon Musk.....I don't think there will be any marketplace confusion with the car manufacturer of that name.

author: mtdoc
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 05:57:38 am
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on September 05, 2016, 06:53:42 pmYes, cool link. That is a whole lot of stuff!I hadn't heard of the Westford Needles before. A quick search led tothis:Quote

author: tatus1969
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 05:59:09 am
content: anyone watched WallE ?

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 12:34:56 pm
content: This thread should be called "So you think you have too much junk in space."(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/so-you-think-you-have-too-much-junk/)Which we do. Google 'space collision cascade' aka Kessler syndrome.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndromeyoutube.com/watch?v=JyG3zqLyW8k Animation shows spread of debris from satellite collision (Iridium 33)

author: NottheDan
author_rank: Frequent Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 02:48:23 pm
content: Looked around on it, found a Titan IIIC stage from 1965 still loitering around up there

author: mariush
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 03:08:30 pm
content: Quote from: dr.diesel on September 05, 2016, 10:29:32 pmYeah, one of the first thing I noticed was some debris from the Chinese satellite they destroyed, that one made at least 2300 pieces of debris (golf ball or higher):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test

author: rdl
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 03:21:51 pm
content: Eventually somebody will get rich by sweeping up all that space junk and selling it. After all, it's already in orbit and a significant part of the cost to construct something in space is getting the materials to where you need them.

author: klunkerbus
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 04:12:08 pm
content: My guess is a collection scheme will evolve out of necessity, but not as a for-profit. This stuff isn't just sitting there, waiting to be collected. It's mostly all moving in different directions and different speeds. The kinetic energy these pieces have complicate collection. It'll take a lot of fuel to maneuver and rendezvous close enough to manage the kinetic energy problem. And that's just a start.Political problems... How many countries and commercial companies are going to be eager to allow someone else to retrieve their hardware, broken or not?Security problems... A retrieval system with cameras for inspection/rendezvous opens up issues with where the camera is pointed and what might be accidentally captured in the background. There's stuff up there that others aren't supposed to know about.Hazardous issues... Any remaining fuel would likely be highly hazardous. Solar panels might still be capable of generating electricity.Weapon issues... Ground or space based systems capable of hitting, shooting, or in any way moving or destroying garbage will be viewed by some as a weapon-capable system.EDIT: Liability issues... what happens if a retrieval goes bad and creates more pieces that end up taking out a working satellite?

author: StillTrying
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 04:51:53 pm
content: I hadn't heard of the Westford Needles experiments before.At such small wavelengths I can't think how you'd get good reflections off them, surely as soon as there's any dispersion of them, most of the reflections are randomly out of phase and cancel.

author: apelly
author_rank: Unknown
timestamp: September 07, 2016, 09:21:24 pm
content: Big orbiting balls of high density sticky goop with an integral carbon fibre web.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 06:24:09 am
content: It's interesting trying to find the highest apogee orbits in that dataset, and reading about the satellite history.OPS 7044 VELA 12 Apogee 186145 KmPROGNOZ 6 Apogee 178043 km

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 08, 2016, 11:58:30 pm
content: It would definitely be interesting to see what they later come up with the start doing a cleanup up there. If the EM drive or other "propellant free" drive really does turn out to work, it would very well be viable to have a bunch of small ships up there just autonomously doing a cleanup. They could run off solar and not need any physical fuel supply/refill. The trick with cleaning up space junk is you have to rendez-vous with it. Each individual object requires a separate set of maneuvers to get to it. Once you get to it, you then do a retro burn, let go of the object, then do a prograde burn to get back in orbit then repeat for each piece that needs to be removed. That requires a lot of energy. With the EM drive this could be very viable. No need to keep launching fuel. Even if you can only clean up one piece per week due to having to wait for a maneuver to take place, it's still something. I wonder if you could also use reaction wheels to swing objects retrograde. Like letting go while on a fast spinning mary go round. That would save from having to do a retro burn. Something tells me that would break laws of physics though... if you can swing something hard enough to deorbit it then there needs to be an opposite reaction.

author: TerraHertz
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 01:03:02 am
content: Quote from: Red Squirrel on September 08, 2016, 11:58:30 pmPerhaps flinging the junk object fast enough to make it reenter, could be factored into the maneuver needed to get to the next piece of junk?But matching orbits with trash and individually de-orbiting them one by one, is only going to work for the few hundred or thousand larger bits. If there's ever a serious Kessler syndrome collision cascade, then it won't work. Too many bits for one thing, and secondly the retrieval vehicle would be getting shotgunned all the time from all directions.Since hearing about the Kessler thing many years ago, it's been clear to me there will never be any protracted 'space conflict' if we have another world war. The first nation or group to launch a few tons of gravel into orbit (especially if a retrograde orbit) and explosively disperse it, will go down in history as the terminators of all human space operations for many hundreds (thousands?) of years.It occurred to me maybe that's what the mystery 'inert' Nth Korean satellites (2?) may be. Big tanks of gravel, with a remote radio command detonator. Quite a strong blackmail and/or deadman threat option. Nice asymmetric leverage for them.Those Westford Needles... my God. Humans are garbage.http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/teach-a-man-to-fish

author: Red Squirrel
author_rank: Super Contributor
timestamp: September 09, 2016, 03:13:06 am
content: Yeah the small bits would be a challenge. I suppose a clean up ship just neats to "eat them" and store them in a holding tank or something until it gets full but still have to maneuver to each one individually regardless.That's an interesting theory on the NK sat, it's definitely something that would be plausible to do.Even a paint chip can do some damage. The ISS got a chip crack in a window over such debris. Time to call Apple Auto Glass before it gets bigger.